# Boiler replacement



## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

Heating season is aproaching. Boiler replacement requests starting to build up. Did this one this week. Pretty straightforward single zone house with cast iron radiators. Viessmann boiler. Taco hydraulic seperator. Acid neutralizer for condensate. In and out.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I am not trying to pic your work apart, just wanted to get that out of the way (I promise nothing else from the other goons:no::laughing. 

I thought most of these tankless boilers utilized a manifold system (like Buderus) where it pulled a set amount of water off of the supply running by the boiler rather than running it through. Seems like a mistake on the manufacturers part if they don't do it that way. I mean, if this was a monoflow set up, the pump would erode the heat exchanger, right?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

This is the way it should look like


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> This is the way it should look like


People south of the boarder would see wasted space, bunch it together and box it up into a tiny closet where you cannot work on it.....in the dark.:laughing:


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Don't understand your comment*

Gettinit. There is a hydraulic seperator. It's a Taco down at the bottom of the picture. We never run the house side of the system all through the boiler. We always use either a Viessmann low loss header or the Taco seperator. Is that what you are referring to?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> Gettinit. There is a hydraulic seperator. It's a Taco down at the bottom of the picture. We never run the house side of the system all through the boiler. We always use either a Viessmann low loss header or the Taco seperator. Is that what you are referring to?


Your separator is to get the larger air bubbles out of the heating system. 

I am referring to this....










or the black version in OS pic under the GB142.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Maybe this is a better pic...


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*No, it's not*

It does the same thing you pictured.

http://taco-hvac.com/en/products/products.html?current_category=377

It happens to have an air vent on top. It's not a Spirovent type thing.

It is a true hydraulic seperator. Not an air seperator. Takes the place of 2 closely spaced tees in a primary/secondary setup.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Not quite....maybe someone else can do a better job of explaining, I am not doing a good job, sorry.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> Your separator is to get the larger air bubbles out of the heating system.
> 
> I am referring to this....
> 
> ...


Water goes through "E" and "F", the red Grundfus circulator pulls off of it and through the boiler.

I hope I am not coming across as condescending....I do not mean it that way.


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Did you look at the link?*

You're not coming across as condescending. It's just an intelligent conversation. Did you look at the link I put in the last post? It is in fact a replacement for what you pictured. Viessmann makes them. Caleffi has them. Taco too. Saves a lot of time doing the closely spaced tees. Gives you true seperation of flow between fluid going through the house and fluid going through the boiler. Same as what you pictured.

Here is the spec sheet on Viessmann's version.

http://www.viessmann.ca/etc/medialib/internet-ca/pdfs/doc/acc.Par.94463.File.tmp/LL_Header_TDM.pdf


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> You're not coming across as condescending. It's just an intelligent conversation. Did you look at the link I put in the last post? It is in fact a replacement for what you pictured. Viessmann makes them. Caleffi has them. Taco too. Saves a lot of time doing the closely spaced tees. Gives you true seperation of flow between fluid going through the house and fluid going through the boiler. Same as what you pictured.
> 
> Here is the spec sheet on Viessmann's version.
> 
> http://www.viessmann.ca/etc/medialib/internet-ca/pdfs/doc/acc.Par.94463.File.tmp/LL_Header_TDM.pdf


I was trying to find a cut away to see how it works. I am taking your word for it......and it was in this post. Pretty neat little gadget!


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Here's another pic*

This is the Viessmann version in a job we did a while ago. Notice there is an air eliminator to the right of the hydraulic seperator.

Ya, they are very handy. Been using these for a lot of years. I usually use the Viessmann. Comes with a full insulation accessory. There's also a dry well for a sensor in case you use a boiler or control that senses the house side fluid temperature.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> This is the Viessmann version in a job we did a while ago. Notice there is an air eliminator to the right of the hydraulic seperator.


&[email protected]^#%^$*#&+_^_$*#@(*[email protected]-# die electric unions are not needed!!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> &[email protected]^#%^$*#&+_^_$*#@(*[email protected]-# die electric unions are not needed!!


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Yep, very aware of that.*

One of my guys installed those unions. We stock them on the truck for other stuff. I told him we didn't need them but was sure not going to have them removed after the fact. You can see on the boiler side of the low loss header there aren't any. I caught it before that side of the system was piped.


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Hey Gettinit.....*

The picture of the boiler you posted. Just curious. Is the expansion tank supported with more that just the pipe? I can't tell. Looks like it's just on top of the pipe.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> The picture of the boiler you posted. Just curious. Is the expansion tank supported with more that just the pipe? I can't tell. Looks like it's just on top of the pipe.


I just pulled a pic off of google trying to find a pic of the manifold....this is not my work.


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Oh, OK*

Thanks. Thought it might be yours.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> Thanks. Thought it might be yours.


Nope. I used to install, now I only service and start up. I would get one helper to get the old boiler out, new in, and that was it. By the time I was done, taking a pic was the last thing on my mind. I wish I had now though.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Just got done reading one of the best book by Calfenni about hydrodic seprator..


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Huh?*

You mean Caleffi?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> You mean Caleffi?


 Yes.... my thumbs was typing before I was thinking... they do have good books on this subject... as well on other heating compoment.


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Caleffi has*

an entire series of booklets called "idronics". I think they are up to number 11. Well worth getting them all.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> an entire series of booklets called "idronics". I think they are up to number 11. Well worth getting them all.


 Agreed... and another good hydronic heating books are written by Dan Holohan and John Sistethger( something like that)


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Just got done reading one of the best book by Calfenni about hydrodic seprator..


I thought he was speaking in tongues again :laughing:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I quit using primary/secondary close spaced tees years ago. A hydraulic separator will save time, money and space.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I quit using primary/secondary close spaced tees years ago. A hydraulic separator will save time, money and space.


 Any specific brand???


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## Catlin987987 (Nov 12, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I quit using primary/secondary close spaced tees years ago. A hydraulic separator will save time, money and space.


2" Caleffi ones are like $650, is there that much money to be saved?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Catlin987987 said:


> 2" Caleffi ones are like $650, is there that much money to be saved?


Wow, if that's our net cost, I'll be wondering the same thing since with the mixer, you'll need more elbows and sweats to get where you make the connections on the existing system.
On new system, maybe save alittle.


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

Catlin987987 said:


> 2" Caleffi ones are like $650, is there that much money to be saved?


How often do you need 250,000 + net BTU's in residential?


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## Catlin987987 (Nov 12, 2010)

ZL700 said:


> How often do you need 250,000 + net BTU's in residential?


I guess, our average size is 800MBH


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

Catlin987987 said:


> I guess, our average size is 800MBH


2" is usually limited to 45 GPM. 

Residential with a 20 DT, doubt many go over 1-1/4", around 15gpm, 150,000 BTU.


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