# backflow test kit



## dmar2053 (Feb 6, 2013)

hey guys just got cert. for backflow testing. any sugestions on which test kit i should invest in?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Midwest 845-5
http://www.backflowtestkits.com/gauges.html


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

845 is a decent unit, if your getting a tester and its likely to be tossed on the back seat of your truck, you may want to get an 835, they have a hard cover box built around them.


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

I use a watts tk99 and wish I had a Midwest.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

The Midwest is the best out there. The newer 845-5 is bulletproof. Give these guys a call, they give a discount to guys that just got their cross connection preventer inspection license.

http://www.testgauge.net/


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I have the Midwest test kit also. 830 I think. I have the 'quick dis-connect' brass adapters; they're great. No messing with teflon tape.

Congratulations on getting certified. Right after I got certified, my manager sent me on a call to install a new RPZ and then to certify the new unit. After the install, I called him up for help because I couldn't remember what hose went where......:laughing:


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

the Midwest is the best we had the 835 very easy to use learn in school to use it to do a 1 hose test it was taught by a engineer wo wrote the book on back flow testing


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## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

Are you a licensed plumber?


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

yes I am a lic plumber


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

Relic said:


> Are you a licensed plumber?


yes I am


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## B.P. repairer (Jul 14, 2010)

Watts TK 9a It's very easy to work with.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

plumberpro said:


> yes I am a lic plumber



I think he meant the OP.


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> The Midwest is the best out there. The newer 845-5 is bulletproof. Give these guys a call, they give a discount to guys that just got their cross connection preventer inspection license.
> 
> http://www.testgauge.net/


 
X2 

The people at Test Gauge are a good group of people to work with.


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## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

Not sure why others are offering advice here. Your intro says nothing about you or even if you are a professional plumber or not. You say you JUST GOT your cross connection cert and after 13 years in the trade?? wth.

In my area even with a cross connection cert, you still must hold a master plumbing license and or be a journeyman plumber working under a master in order to test and certify devices.

Kind of surprised this went past everyone here. Normally pretty good about flushing hacks out.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Relic said:


> Not sure why others are offering advice here. Your intro says nothing about you or even if you are a professional plumber or not.* You say you JUST GOT your cross connection cert and after 13 years in the trade?? wth.*
> 
> In my area even with a cross connection cert, you still must hold a master plumbing license and or be a journeyman plumber working under a master in order to test and certify devices.
> 
> Kind of surprised this went past everyone here. Normally pretty good about flushing hacks out.


 






Maybe he is an authentic plumber. I know plumbers who never get backflow certs or medical gas certs. Those are extra certifications that are not mandatory. In this state (FL) one can get a master's license without med gas or backflow certifications.


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## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

Yeah but Florida is the dingle berry of the county :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> Maybe he is an authentic plumber. I know plumbers who never get backflow certs or medical gas certs. Those are extra certifications that are not mandatory. In this state (FL) one can get a master's license without med gas or backflow certifications.


Texas Responsible Master Plumber here without a Backflow Cert. Not sure its worth it with a lot of guys doing the test for $55.


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## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

It's pretty shocking that some states allow any schmo to certify backflow devices. Rule number one is to protect the health and safety of the nation and cross connection is without a doubt the biggest risk to the public's health.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Relic said:


> Yeah but Florida is the dingle berry of the county :laughing::laughing::laughing:


I almost find that remark highly offensive! But as of right now... I don't live in Georgia!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

dmar2053 said:


> hey guys just got cert. for backflow testing. any sugestions on which test kit i should invest in?


Something's fishy about this person..


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

Relic said:


> Are you a licensed plumber?



Don't need to be a licensed plumber here to be a certified backflow tester.
( at least that's what the instructor told me )


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## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

eddiecalder said:


> Don't need to be a licensed plumber here to be a certified backflow tester.
> ( at least that's what the instructor told me )


Many states have prerequisites in order to take the journeyman plumbing test. If you've gotten the backflow cert, you still must work under the direction of a master plumber in order to certify any backflow device.

In other words, just because you have the cert doesn't mean you can go test and certify devices. You still need a master plumber.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Anyone can get it here if they can pass the test. I have my cert. and will let it lapse. I have not been able to generate enough income to justify it. Many cities and counties don't even require backflows and more do not require them to be annually inspected. It amazes and frustrates me. Many of the commercial buildings that I work with have their fire sprinkler contractors do all of the backflows. Oh well.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

89plumbum said:


> I almost find that remark highly offensive! But as of right now... I don't live in Georgia!


That was funny....*Golf Clap*


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

here in wi must be a licensed plumber to install a rpz or backflow device do not need to be a plumber to test only certified to do it . it is not strongly enforced they are supposed to be tested once installed and once a year I have gone on testes were is was 3-4 years its leaking out relief :ugh old co I workd for charged a lot so we didn't do much had to let mine lapse 180.for. it can always renew it when busy again


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Anyone can get it here if they can pass the test. I have my cert. and will let it lapse. I have not been able to generate enough income to justify it. Many cities and counties don't even require backflows and more do not require them to be annually inspected. It amazes and frustrates me.* Many of the commercial* *buildings that I work with have their fire sprinkler contractors do all of the backflows*. Oh well.


 






In this state (FL) it's actually the law that the backflows on a fire line cannot be tested by licensed plumbers, only fire sprinkler contractors with their backflow certification. 

I have spoken with the chief plumbing inspector about it and he knew nothing about it. Many towns, cities, etc. aren't aware of that law either or else they don't give a hoot. One city that I used to work in would not allow me to test any backflows on fire lines.


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## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> In this state (FL) it's actually the law that the backflows on a fire line cannot be tested by licensed plumbers, only fire sprinkler contractors with their backflow certification.
> 
> I have spoken with the chief plumbing inspector about it and he knew nothing about it. Many towns, cities, etc. aren't aware of that law either or else they don't give a hoot. One city that I used to work in would not allow me to test any backflows on fire lines.


That is a public health hazard in my view. How do they pull permits on them without a plumbing license?


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Texas Responsible Master Plumber here without a Backflow Cert. Not sure its worth it with a lot of guys doing the test for $55.


Customers will not pay for testing if there is no one making them. The city here used to push testing very hard, now they dont give a , guess the federal money dried up.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Relic said:


> Many states have prerequisites in order to take the journeyman plumbing test. If you've gotten the backflow cert, you still must work under the direction of a master plumber in order to certify any backflow device.
> 
> In other words, just because you have the cert doesn't mean you can go test and certify devices. You still need a master plumber.


Most states on the Left Coast aren't that strict, nor do they have a 'Master Plumber' designation.

In Washington State, testing requires only a state issued BAT card after certification of completion of the 6 or 7 day class.

Repairing requires only a Specialty Card.

Installations are suppose to be done by a licensed Journeyman Plumber, but enforcement is extremely lax. Most of the landscaping and fire suppression companies pull their own permits and do their own installations for DCVA's and HVAC companies generally install their own RPZ's.

The Unions tried to clean up the mess a few years ago but got greedy and wanted *ALL* installations to fall under their purview and were essentially shut down.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

In Tucson AZ if you were certed to test you were good to repair. The city was real good about random spot checks on tests, they would also keep an eye on iffy testers. 

there every commercial building had one and was tested every year or the water was turned off.

Damn good money.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Relic said:


> That is a public health hazard in my view. How do they pull permits on them without a plumbing license?


 






I didn't say anything about pulling permits. A permit is supposed to be pulled to do a new install. However, some municipalities do require pulling a permit just to perform the annual test. 

These forms are from a city that abides by state statutes; namely, only a fire line contractor can touch a backflow on a fire line and only a licensed plumbing contractor can touch a backflow on a potable water line.

Below are (2) different forms. Both are for backflows. One is for a backflow on a fire line, the other is for a backflow on a potable water line. I had a restaurant that I used to take care of. I had to sub-contract out the fire backflow to someone with the fire contractor's license.


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

I just did my ticket for Ca / NV, there was no mention at all of having to be a plumbing contractor, in fact most of the people taking the class with me were from public and private utilities, the guys giving the Class were not plumbers either. When i did my CCC ticket in BC in 2011 there was also no mention of having to be a contractor.

The rep we had from the City of Sparks/ Reno water district said straight out that they keep lists of Commercial back flow installs but if its in a residential location don't keep any data bases.

I am a red seal ticketed in Canada, but down here...only ticket i have is a work permit and Back flow tester cert.


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## dannbonds (Jan 14, 2013)

In ohio it's not necessary to be a licensed plumber to test devices. Ohio doesn't have a journey license, just a contractors license. Any one who studies can pass the test. Usually only the company owner is licensed.


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## dmar2053 (Feb 6, 2013)

Relic said:


> Are you a licensed plumber?


yes im a license plumber, and im about to have my hvac license. In Ct you do not need to hold a license to test backflows, but you do need a license to perform any work on them.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Back to original question, which test gauge to invest in? 
Yes, I just got my Water Supply Protection Specialist certification and now need to purchase a gauge. Was a journeyman and just got master's license last month. So there, got that out of the way.

Midwest 845 or Watts TK-99E or Watts TK-9A?

Several have touted the Midwest 845 and 835 already. Any thoughts on the Watts TK-99E or TK-9A?


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## huskyevert (Mar 9, 2012)

I use a Midwest 845 3 hose gauge. I like it. Midwest is more expensive, but they can be repaired. Here in MI the gauges calibration has to be certified annually. As far as I know, if you have the Watts or any other brand, if it falls out of calibration it's pretty much expensive garbage.


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## huskyevert (Mar 9, 2012)

Congrats on getting your Masters, by the way.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Cajunhiker said:


> Back to original question, which test gauge to invest in?
> Yes, I just got my Water Supply Protection Specialist certification and now need to purchase a gauge. Was a journeyman and just got master's license last month. So there, got that out of the way.
> 
> Midwest 845 or Watts TK-99E or Watts TK-9A?
> ...


I've got a Mid West 830 and a Watts TK 99E. The second one (Watts) is lighter and smaller but still I prefer Mid West, in my opinion is stronger. I love Mid West gauges and attachments. By the way, congrats for your master's and certification, god job :thumbup:


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

huskyevert said:


> I use a Midwest 845 3 hose gauge. I like it. Midwest is more expensive, but they can be repaired. Here in MI the gauges calibration has to be certified annually. As far as I know, if you have the Watts or any other brand, if it falls out of calibration it's pretty much expensive garbage.


What do try to say with 3 hoses, differential pressure gauge?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Gargalaxy said:


> What do try to say with 3 hoses, differential pressure gauge?


there is a 3valve and a 5 valve both have three hoses. The five valve is a ton faster on testing. You have two bleed valves which speeds up testing time on RPZs and DC .


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

There are 3 basic types of test gauges
-Differential pressure
-Duplex pressure
- Sight tube.
Differential pressure: (can be analog or digital) must include three pressure hoses and 2, 3 or 5 needle valves.
Like wyrickmech said, can be used to test RPz, DC, pressure vacuum breaker and spill resistant vacuum breakers.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> The Midwest is the best out there. The newer 845-5 is bulletproof. Give these guys a call, they give a discount to guys that just got their cross connection preventer inspection license. http://www.testgauge.net/


Thanks for the feedback. Midwest seems like a well liked gauge. Thinks I'll give the testgauge.net guys a call, whom SewerRatz and a few others recommended. Thanks again.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Cajunhiker said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Midwest seems like a well liked gauge. Thinks I'll give the testgauge.net guys a call, whom SewerRatz and a few others recommended. Thanks again.


When you call test gauge, just let them know that Archer Sewer and Plumbing and Anderson Plumbing mentioned for you to call them from Plumbing Zone Forums. 

They also have lots of other testing equipment and tools that one may need for the backflow prevention device testing.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Here is a pic M. West next to the Watts so you can see the difference.


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## georgepsi (Jul 24, 2013)

Don't know if any of you guys use these they save so much time on our tests


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## ibeplumber (Sep 20, 2011)

georgepsi said:


> Don't know if any of you guys use these they save so much time on our tests


do you guys like the straight or the 90 swivel? Can decide with set to order.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

georgepsi said:


> Don't know if any of you guys use these they save so much time on our tests


 yes


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

ibeplumber said:


> do you guys like the straight or the 90 swivel? Can decide with set to order.


Both are good but as wrickmech mentioned before in another thread, the advantage with 90 swivel is on DC when the test cock are on the side.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Btw, here is my new test gauge. It's a virgin. Has never had water run through its hoses, well, except maybe at the factory.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Cajunhiker said:


> Btw, here is my new test gauge. It's a virgin. Has never had water run through its hoses, well, except maybe at the factory.


 I hate how they changed the color of the green hose that was a mind twister for a moment.


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

Yeah relic here in Florida most of that testing is done cheaply by the city some of us have backflow certs but it's a weekend worth of classes and like 600$ plus there really isn't a market for it and it's totally different from having a masters in plumbing. It's just like having a license to change and test pool water has nothing to do with plumbing a lot of guys get them before they get a mp license. Really confusing I can install them but I can't test them or work on them technically


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

titaniumplumbr said:


> Yeah relic here in Florida most of that testing is done cheaply by the city some of us have backflow certs but it's a weekend worth of classes and like 600$....


Depends where you live in Florida, actually in some counties in east coast like Palm Beach, Dade... (just to mention a couples) you need to be registered as a plumber contractor in that county or using a registered license. In some others counties you just need prove (copy) of your backflow certification and a copy of the calibration gauge.
Beside that, the counties, institutions or city (like you called it) most of the time they send you a notice letter and attach all the companies registered with them.

Also are two backflow certification:
1- tester (4 days classes)
2- repair and maintenance (3 days)

Without the second one, you're just allow to test it and nothing else.


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

Ok good to know I'm here in sarasota


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## Steveking (May 16, 2014)

Midwest 845-2 two needle value or Barton two needle


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Steveking said:


> Midwest 845-2 two needle value or Barton two needle


 a two valve would limit the testing speed. I would suggest at least a three valve but the five valve is the fastest by far.


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## Steveking (May 16, 2014)

If I was in Canada it would not matter how fast my gauge would test.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Gargalaxy said:


> Depends where you live in Florida, actually in some counties in east coast like Palm Beach, Dade... (just to mention a couples) you need to be registered as a plumber contractor in that county or using a registered license. In some others counties you just need prove (copy) of your backflow certification and a copy of the calibration gauge. Beside that, the counties, institutions or city (like you called it) most of the time they send you a notice letter and attach all the companies registered with them. Also are two backflow certification: 1- tester (4 days classes) 2- repair and maintenance (3 days) Without the second one, you're just allow to test it and nothing else.


I've never heard of the repair and maintenance class as a requirement. I'll have to look into that.


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