# Water Heater Question



## Raleigh Plumbin (May 1, 2009)

Need some help on this one. We have been asked to provide a solution for a customer running out of hot water. The installation has to do with a shower that has (1) 3/4" Hot and (1) 3/4"Cold Volume Control that run to a trough in the ceiling where the water mixes and then dumps out onto the customer. The original installation consisted of (1) 50 Gallon Electric Water Heater. The customer could take about a 3 minute shower at best before running out of HW without having to throttle down the cold volume. The customers goal is to get about a 7 to 8 minute shower so we added (2) additional 50 Gallon Water Heaters and ran them in series (see photo) in hopes that we could achieve his goals. He now gets a 3 minute shower like before at full temp, but has to throttle down the cold volume several times before being almost off at the 15 minute mark. 
*QUESTION #1:* Do you think running the heaters in tandem would have been a better installation to increase the amount of time he has to shower without having to throttle down the cold? The way the shower dumps water from the ceiling it's not easy to get an accurate gpm, but im guessing it's about 16 gpm hot side and 17-18gpm cold side. 
*QUESTION #2:* Would installing some type of balancing valve eliminate having to throttle down the cold without affecting volume much? Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Seems like you have the same problem with the trough as running the WH’s in series. Cold is mixing in to fast. Parallel, is way better then series and maybe add a mixing valve before the trough? Let’s let some of the more experienced water heater experts chime in....


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Raleigh Plumbin said:


> Need some help on this one. We have been asked to provide a solution for a customer running out of hot water. The installation has to do with a shower that has (1) 3/4" Hot and (1) 3/4"Cold Volume Control that run to a trough in the ceiling where the water mixes and then dumps out onto the customer. The original installation consisted of (1) 50 Gallon Electric Water Heater. The customer could take about a 3 minute shower at best before running out of HW without having to throttle down the cold volume. The customers goal is to get about a 7 to 8 minute shower so we added (2) additional 50 Gallon Water Heaters and ran them in series (see photo) in hopes that we could achieve his goals. He now gets a 3 minute shower like before at full temp, but has to throttle down the cold volume several times before being almost off at the 15 minute mark.
> *QUESTION #1:* Do you think running the heaters in tandem would have been a better installation to increase the amount of time he has to shower without having to throttle down the cold? The way the shower dumps water from the ceiling it's not easy to get an accurate gpm, but im guessing it's about 16 gpm hot side and 17-18gpm cold side.
> *QUESTION #2:* Would installing some type of balancing valve eliminate having to throttle down the cold without affecting volume much? Any help is greatly appreciated.


 set the thermostat at 150 install mixing valve at the heater. Set the mixing valve at heater at 125 degrees and they will be able to take multiple showers plus have hot water for other house hold uses or do what 89 suggested and plumb them in parallel and install a mixing valve at the heaters plus crank them up to 150 and set the mixing valve at 125.








https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westing...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-205931648-_-206021412-_-N


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

That's way too much water. 

I know I'm in California, but is that even legal to run a "showerhead" that uses so much water?

Odds are that the design of the trough is requiring a larger volume of water for an effective shower than a normal shower head..

Most showers are what, 2 or 2.5 GPM... some these days even less.....

I wonder if restricting the flow would result in a less effective shower.

Is it possible that it isn't nearly that much water, but you have a crossover coming from somewhere else in the house?


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Can we get pictures or video of this shower running?


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Goodness gracious that's some serious gpm for a shower. I second Debo's request to see this thing running.

Sounds like something odd is going on if he's running out of hot h2o in 3 minutes with 150 gallons of it, even if that shower truly pulled 16 gpm of just hot h2o. With just one 50 gal then the math works out that he runs out in 3 minutes.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Something is not right and like usual we are missing a big chunk of the whole story and we are also missing the truth.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Just go tankless, endless hot h2o.

Are all of the elements good? 100% sure power is going to all 3?


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

chonkie said:


> Just go tankless, endless hot h2o.
> 
> Are all of the elements good? 100% sure power is going to all 3?


Or boiler. Yep generally federal clean water act will restrict GPM on all devices. Most likely never get brought up or caught.

Here is the EPA information regarding shower heads. >>> https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-01/documents/ws-products-spec-showerheads.pdf


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

chonkie said:


> Just go tankless, endless hot h2o.
> 
> Are all of the elements good? 100% sure power is going to all 3?


Or boiler. Yep generally federal clean water act will restrict GPM on all devices. Most likely never get brought up or caught.

Here is the EPA information regarding shower heads. >>> https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-01/documents/ws-products-spec-showerheads.pdf


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I took the smallest drill bit that I could find and drilled out the tiny holes in my shower head a little bit bigger increasing the volume of water. Ahhhhh, I love my shower now!......shhhhhhh, don't tell the feds or I will be sent to federal prison;

Prisoner #1: "What are you in for?"

Tommy plumber: "Illegally altering a low-flow showerhead." {trying to look tough while saying that}.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Prisoner #1: "What are you in for?"

Tommy plumber: "Illegally altering a low-flow showerhead." {trying to look tough while saying that

 you just made my day.

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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> I took the smallest drill bit that I could find and drilled out the tiny holes in my shower head a little bit bigger increasing the volume of water. Ahhhhh, I love my shower now!......shhhhhhh, don't tell the feds or I will be sent to federal prison;
> 
> Prisoner #1: "What are you in for?"
> 
> Tommy plumber: "Illegally altering a low-flow showerhead." {trying to look tough while saying that}.


I rip out every water saving device I come across. Number 1 call back issue, if you don't just remove it then word spreads that you installed an inferior product. 

Are all 3 water heaters set to the same temp?


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

The formula for figuring out the percentage of hot water coming out of a shower (or any other fixture). 

Figure out the flow rate of the shower. Time it into a bucket, whatever it takes. 

So, if 60% of the shower water is coming from the water heater then 60% of the flow rate is coming from the water heater. 

I use the 70% rule for tank type water heaters. So 3 50’s would give you 105 gal of hot water before going cold. (Im not sure that’s accurate for heaters in series, though)

Using those figures above, a 10 gpm shower would mean 6 gpm is coming from the heaters. That means you should get a 17.5 minute shower. 

Plug in your actual numbers and see what you’re getting vs. what the math says you should get. Maybe there’s something else going on that’s causing issues. Maybe not. But you’ll never know until you do the math. 


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## TheLSPlumber (Sep 6, 2017)

Just go tankless is my opinion!


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## Raleigh Plumbin (May 1, 2009)

We ended up installing a mixing valve. Owner now gets 108 Degree water for 20 plus minutes without loosing temperature. Thanks for everyone's help.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

THELSPLUMBER

An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

If this customer has more money than God, and he wants to play with himself in the shower or fondle his girlfreinds for a long time, I would suggest just taking out those 3 40 gallon electric heaters and throw in 3 100 gallon Rheem Marathon heaters.... you certainly have the room for them 

set them up in series and turn them up to 140..... that will work out to 300 gallons of water for fun time....... 

and then he can take on a couple of bimbos at the same time......:biggrin::biggrin:




.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> I took the smallest drill bit that I could find and drilled out the tiny holes in my shower head a little bit bigger increasing the volume of water. Ahhhhh, I love my shower now!......shhhhhhh, don't tell the feds or I will be sent to federal prison;
> 
> Prisoner #1: "What are you in for?"
> 
> Tommy plumber: "Illegally altering a low-flow showerhead." {trying to look tough while saying that}.




Prisoner 3: Do that to our showers then drop the soap


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Im guessing this is the customer?


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