# Winterize House Pipes



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Would you drain all the water lines with compressed air and call it good enough or would you drain the lines and circulate non toxic anti freeze in the hot and cold lines? It could be problematic with an empty water heater to fill the lines unless I install a bypass. Then I would need a brand new pony pump so not to contaminate the lines.

The famous utube plumber gets frozen and split pipes and faucets in the spring. But those are usually exterior showers.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I would tell her you cant give a price till you see the house and what valves there are to shut down the water and drain the lines, also you have to put antifreeze in all the toilets and traps( sinks, tubs and showers and anything else that will hold water..
what type of heating system? steam, hot water or hot air? steam and hot water need to be drained ...I would easily figure 6 hours labor and parts and materials..
after winterizing I would show her what you did and have her sign a completion form that it was done and you are not responsible if some one runs water or flushes the anti freeze out of the traps...
shutting the water at the curb is needed so you can drain the water meter and main water coming up in the house...
there is alot more work to winterizing than you think..


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

We blow some down every year with compressed air. Antifreeze all traps. 

But- hot water or steam systems? Forget it. They’re tough to get all the water out. I’m also scared of blowing down 100 year old galvanized. You could possibly have a real mess on your hands when you turn it back on.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I haven't seen a boiler system in my area yet other than one mansion I went to. All have are electric or gas furnaces or baseboards. So no worries about the heating system. Since we are in Canada you can't shut down the heat completely all the paint will probably peel and or mold.

We don't have water meters. There's a curb stop 8 feet below ground and the city will shut it off for me. Once inside there's a valve and that's it.

@Toli How do you put antifreeze in a line using an air compressor or did I misunderstood you and just blow the lines? I was thinking of draining the lines with a compressor then using a pony pump and an RV tube that siphons the liquid from the jug and open the faucets and let it flow.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

I don’t put antifreeze in the potable system. Just the toilets, sink drains,etc. sorry for the confusion.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I haven't seen a boiler system in my area yet other than one mansion I went to. All have are electric or gas furnaces or baseboards. So no worries about the heating system. Since we are in Canada you can't shut down the heat completely all the paint will probably peel and or mold.
> 
> We don't have water meters. There's a curb stop 8 feet below ground and the city will shut it off for me. Once inside there's a valve and that's it.
> 
> @*Toli* How do you put antifreeze in a line using an air compressor or did I misunderstood you and just blow the lines? I was thinking of draining the lines with a compressor then using a pony pump and an RV tube that siphons the liquid from the jug and open the faucets and let it flow.


dont put anything in the potable water system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even if its non toxic, you may never get the taste of it out of the pipes and then your up $hits creek without a paddle....


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Toli said:


> I don’t put antifreeze in the potable system. Just the toilets, sink drains,etc. sorry for the confusion.


I'm probably going to do the extra safe thing with antifreeze in the pipes, frozen and split cartridges in faucets, no thanks. I'm going to charge accordingly.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Tango said:


> Toli said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t put antifreeze in the potable system. Just the toilets, sink drains,etc. sorry for the confusion.
> ...


You suit yourself, but I personally would not put antifreeze in any potable system. If you take your time and blow everything out you’ll be fine. 

Some will say you need a huge air compressor to do it. I use a small compressor and use the water heater as a buffer tank for volume. It can take a little longer and if I was doing lots of it I may get do something differently, but it works for me.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

One other thing-

The very first house I winterized by myself I pulled up in the drive and saw what looked like a 1 story small home. I went in, found a bathroom and made my way to the basement. I did my thing and all was good. 

Went back in the spring and turned the water on. I heard water running upstairs above the bathroom. I never went and looked but there was a second floor half bath and the toilet tank was busted. So I had to eat a toilet. Luckily everything else was ok. 

So now, we go in, open every door, look in every closet, etc for anything plumbing related. (I have found hacked in laundry connections in bedroom closets) I will then turn on a light in each room I’ve got plumbing in so I remember we’re I need to go.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Toli said:


> You suit yourself, but I personally would not put antifreeze in any potable system. If you take your time and blow everything out you’ll be fine.
> 
> Some will say you need a huge air compressor to do it. I use a small compressor and use the water heater as a buffer tank for volume. It can take a little longer and if I was doing lots of it I may get do something differently, but it works for me.



Odds are the electricity goes out and it freezes faucets that are already empty is very slim.

Yeah I was looking for compressor on sale this morning. I'll have to check my garage to see if I still have my small one.

Good point on the water heater, I can fill it up with air.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> Would you drain all the water lines with compressed air and call it good enough or would you drain the lines and circulate non toxic anti freeze in the hot and cold lines?





We just blow the whole system out with our trailer compressor. It's something ridiculous like 75gpm @ 150psi. It has a v6 kubota engine hooked to something like a 4 cylinder compressor.


You really don't need that much air because you aren't doing small hotels or GIANT houses. For best results you would still probably want an engine driven unit though or at least a 220v one you could plug into the dryer receptacle. Or a big storage tank and do it in bursts. You could use the water heater as your air storage tank. Pump the heater up with both valves closed, open one faucet, then open the valve on the heater. Repeat until you have done them all.



I guess on the small scale blowing everything out real well with a normal compressor and then just cycling some anti freeze through would be best. You don't need to leave it filled with antifreeze, you just need to dilute any residual water with enough antifreeze so it won't freeze. This could drastically lower the amount you end up using.








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## Cagey57 (Mar 2, 2018)

Tango,
I recommend AGAINST putting even Non-Toxic Antifreeze into the Domestic piping. Non-Toxic does not mean safe for human consumption. 

Drain everything then hook up your compressor to the Drain Valve of the Water Heater, pump up the system to 30 PSI and then open all the faucets starting from smallest to largest and keep pumping up the pressure to 30 PSI as you go. Lav's first, Kitchen faucet second and so on. Don't forget any ice maker lines. Antofreeze all traps and make sure to drain the Toilet tanks. Leave all the faucets open if you can. 

We have a property at 9500' elevation up in the mountains (sub-zero temps every winter). As long as none of the pipes are full of water nothing freezes. Oh, the pipes are CPVC and they break much easier than Copper.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

Tango said:


> Odds are the electricity goes out and it freezes faucets that are already empty is very slim.
> 
> Yeah I was looking for compressor on sale this morning. I'll have to check my garage to see if I still have my small one.
> 
> Good point on the water heater, I can fill it up with air.



There was a townhouse that was on the market that flooded real bad, lost gas service due to nonpayment of the bill, so the heat went down, was a sad situation..


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

I drain it, 30 psi air, then leave the drain valves open and pull the cartridges out of the taps. Then antifreeze the drains.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I'm wondering if I should insert a tube in the main water line as far as I can go towards the curb stop and vacuum it?

Unless its a ball valve it's going to be impossible to siphon out so that answers my question halfway.


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## ken53 (Mar 1, 2011)

Tango said:


> I'm wondering if I should insert a tube in the main water line as far as I can go towards the curb stop and vacuum it?


 Curb-stops have a built in drain. A vacuum could pull more water in from the ground. See if air will push it back, if not make a note on your invoice and have someone sign off.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ken53 said:


> Curb-stops have a built in drain. A vacuum could pull more water in from the ground. See if air will push it back, if not make a note on your invoice and have someone sign off.


How does that built in drain work or what does it look like? I'm having the city shut the curb when I'm there.

I vacuumed mains when I'm swapping a main valve but it only sucks out a couple of inches with the vac directly on the pipe.

Good Idea, I'll have her sign I can't really do anything from the house to the curb.


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## ken53 (Mar 1, 2011)

The old name for curb stops was stop and drain. The valve has a 1/4" port that opens on the house side when the valve is closed. That is supposed to let the water drain back into the gravel, no one ever dumps around the valve. I can remember there used to be a something in the code requiring sanitizing the line after it's use.
:smile:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ken53 said:


> The old name for curb stops was stop and drain. The valve has a 1/4" port that opens on the house side when the valve is closed. That is supposed to let the water drain back into the gravel, no one ever dumps around the valve. I can remember there used to be a something in the code requiring sanitizing the line after it's use.
> :smile:


I remember the city saying on the last job there was a drain. Evidently the main was shutting off and the drain didn't work, water kept coming up slowly.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ken53 said:


> Curb-stops have a built in drain. A vacuum could pull more water in from the ground. See if air will push it back, if not make a note on your invoice and have someone sign off.





Not all curb valves have the built in drain. They stopped letting us use those kind a couple years ago because they could allow in dirt or other stuff. I think that is overblown but that's what it is.










.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> How does that built in drain work or what does it look like? I'm having the city shut the curb when I'm there.
> 
> I vacuumed mains when I'm swapping a main valve but it only sucks out a couple of inches with the vac directly on the pipe.
> 
> Good Idea, I'll have her sign I can't really do anything from the house to the curb.





There is a hole in the side of the ball valve body and a hole in the ball. The hole in the ball is covered by the teflon seal when it's open and of course the hole in the body is only open to the solid sides of the ball with a seal on either end when the valve is open. When the valve is closed the side of the ball with the hole is towards the house and the hole in the valve body is now open to the cross drilled portion of the ball.


It's a little hard to describe but I tried.




It's different than a standard stop and waste valve. A stop and waste valve has no extra hole in the ball.











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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I did the job this morning and what a $hit show, well it wasn't so bad. It turned out last winter the neighbor heated the house with little electric heaters because the oil furnace wasn't working. The old woman owed 1500$ to the oil/tech company so they didn't fix it. The neighbor did say she had the money but everything was locked in the bank and he had to buy her bags of chips with his own money when he visits because the money was locked. Strange!

I was about to start the process and realized the electricity to the house was also disconnected, I guess she hadn't paid that bill either. She'd been caught by the police driving without supervision. :vs_OMG::vs_OMG:

I had to go rent a generator to do the job, the place was in shambles. The curator told me horror stories, where in other houses that were abandoned, rotting food in the fridge, it literally blew up. In other houses garbage bags left piled for years, cockroaches, bed bugs. In some of them they had to decontaminate the house first before a plumber would set their foot in.

It ain't no Taj Mahal Mama!



.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I won't be on a preferred list either, she said she chose the first plumber that showed up online, good or bad company she didn't check. They have too much work so they don't shop around. Also they have to rotate so only one plumbing company a year.

3/4 of the way in the job she was hoping I could hurry up because she had to go pee, she even unplugged the air hose out side so I could pack up quickly.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I won't be on a preferred list either, she said she chose the first plumber that showed up online, good or bad company she didn't check. They have too much work so they don't shop around. Also they have to rotate so only one plumbing company a year.
> 
> 3/4 of the way in the job she was hoping I could hurry up because she had to go pee, she even unplugged the air hose out side so I could pack up quickly.



you should have offered your bucket to her and the back of your truck...:devil3:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> you should have offered your bucket to her and the back of your truck...:devil3:


I knew you'd come with something when I was typing that! :biggrin:

She was also very pleasing to the eyes....:whistling2::whistling2:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I knew you'd come with something when I was typing that! :biggrin:
> 
> She was also very pleasing to the eyes....:whistling2::whistling2:



any pictures of her? you got the other plumbing pics...:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> any pictures of her? you got the other plumbing pics...:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


Nope it's burned into my memory. :devil3: It's the only place where it's safe....


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## Paulie B (Oct 22, 2011)

I do about 200 houses a year. Most have been designed to drain when build with copper water lines pitched to drains. We do have some that are newer built with pex tubing that were never meant to be winterized. In those cases we hook a hose Y to the washing machine valve and pump food grade antifreeze to every fixture. Most of our work is with Wells and to the well lines have unions and drains in the basement. Also the water heaters have two ball valves to isolate during the pumping. After the pumping we open everything up. In the spring we flush the antifreeze out and once it's clear we offer a chlorine flush and a bacteria water sample about a week after startup. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> dont put anything in the potable water system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even if its non toxic, you may never get the taste of it out of the pipes and then your up $hits creek without a paddle....


You will get the taste out no problem,it is the only sure way to truly winterize a house or blding


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> Odds are the electricity goes out and it freezes faucets that are already empty is very slim.
> 
> Yeah I was looking for compressor on sale this morning. I'll have to check my garage to see if I still have my small one.
> 
> Good point on the water heater, I can fill it up with air.


If you use the water heater as a air tank(and it works) you will ruin your air compressor if it's a small one,it takes a lot of air to blow out waterlines,your little air compressor will burn up if you let it keep running and running and it will,I use a 25 gallon air tank along with the water heater and it still takes awhile


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> I'm wondering if I should insert a tube in the main water line as far as I can go towards the curb stop and vacuum it?
> 
> Unless its a ball valve it's going to be impossible to siphon out so that answers my question halfway.


If pipes are underground you don't have to worry about them freezing just drain as much as possible


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

ken53 said:


> The old name for curb stops was stop and drain. The valve has a 1/4" port that opens on the house side when the valve is closed. That is supposed to let the water drain back into the gravel, no one ever dumps around the valve. I can remember there used to be a something in the code requiring sanitizing the line after it's use.
> :smile:


They are illegal now,we have a few of them around here but not many


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Toli said:


> One other thing-
> 
> The very first house I winterized by myself I pulled up in the drive and saw what looked like a 1 story small home. I went in, found a bathroom and made my way to the basement. I did my thing and all was good.
> 
> ...


We used to do as many as 300 foreclosed homes every winter...I got pretty good at it and usually had a process ..... I got it down to a fine science and kept the generator and air compressor in the truck.... 

I took a garden hose carrier and put about 200 feet of air hose on the roller... all I had to do was fire up the gear and drag the hose into every home. First drain down the heater and disconnect the water meter..... Then I would blow 150psi through all the pipes..... throw antifreeze in all the traps and put winterization stickers on all fixtures....

I dont feel it is cost effective to put the pink antifreeze in the lines if you know how to blow them all down properly and you will never get the taste out of the lines...

I was doing about 5 a day for a while and I never had a problem with breaks.. Lots of these homes were in bad neighborhoods and a lot of properties were un-secured so I went in packing a 9mm on me and checking out the whole house for drug addicts before starting the job..
I had a few incidents and close calls happen like being trapped down in a dark basement with a couple of dudes walking in on me.. I was well armed and was basically was left alone....

most of these houses were full of goodies that people left behind and it was more of a treasure hunt for me every day....

my average price for them today is 250 each unless someone is going to throw me a huge volume of them


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> I did the job this morning and what a $hit show, well it wasn't so bad. It turned out last winter the neighbor heated the house with little electric heaters because the oil furnace wasn't working. The old woman owed 1500$ to the oil/tech company so they didn't fix it. The neighbor did say she had the money but everything was locked in the bank and he had to buy her bags of chips with his own money when he visits because the money was locked. Strange!
> 
> I was about to start the process and realized the electricity to the house was also disconnected, I guess she hadn't paid that bill either. She'd been caught by the police driving without supervision. :vs_OMG::vs_OMG:
> 
> ...


If that bad I wouldn't worry about winterizing pipes,you ain't gonna get paid anyways


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> We used to do as many as 300 foreclosed homes every winter...I got pretty good at it and usually had a process ..... I got it down to a fine science and kept the generator and air compressor in the truck....
> 
> I took a garden hose carrier and put about 200 feet of air hose on the roller... all I had to do was fire up the gear and drag the hose into every home. First drain down the heater and disconnect the water meter..... Then I would blow 150psi through all the pipes..... throw antifreeze in all the traps and put winterization stickers on all fixtures....
> 
> ...


It worth more than that really,it time consuming


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

sparky said:


> If you use the water heater as a air tank(and it works) you will ruin your air compressor if it's a small one,it takes a lot of air to blow out waterlines,your little air compressor will burn up if you let it keep running and running and it will,I use a 25 gallon air tank along with the water heater and it still takes awhile







Don't buy a pos compressor.
















.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Does anybody have an engine-driven onboard compressor in their van/truck?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> It worth more than that really,it time consuming



I totally agree,,, but if you dont have anythign esle going on that day it makes for good filler stuff to do,,,

we did this from 2001 through about 2008 during the economic depression times after 911........

I dont really want to get into high gear and do this ever again....

Since about 2008 their have been mexicans in town that were winterizeing HUD homes for HUD for about 60 bucks each... $60 bucks.. They were just throwing antifreeze in the traps and disconnecting the meter at the pit...... doing a terrible job... but HUD dont care.

I told them to go fuc/ themselves and got out of it back in 2009


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango, I’m leaving Friday to winterize my neighbor’s cabin in the upper lower. I’ll take a few pics of my setup up there and my process. No signal of any kind, so I’ll post it early next week.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> If that bad I wouldn't worry about winterizing pipes,you ain't gonna get paid anyways





sparky said:


> It worth more than that really,it time consuming


Wow I missed an entire page of replies, what the hell happened!? Anyway it's the government who pays the bill, I doubt they'll skip but you never know. If they do it'll be very easy to go to small claims and hire a what do you call them a bounty hunter.

The compressor in the picture did a wonderful job. The bill, Mark was triple that but it included the rental of the generator and the city fee to shut the curb stop. I spent like 3+ hours for all that house plus renting the thing.


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