# The power of the code enforcement



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I remember reading a post once that said if you put an old water heater out in front of yyour home the plumbing inspector might stop and start asking questions......what happens when you refuse his entry into your home? I know here they would never get entry based on a water heater sitting on the curb or an empty box.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I remember reading a post once that said if you put an old water heater out in front of yyour home the plumbing inspector might stop and start asking questions......what happens when you refuse his entry into your home? I know here they would never get entry based on a water heater sitting on the curb or an empty box.


Guess they get a warrant? No idea. I never had that problem. I always get the required permit in the towns that require them.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I remember reading a post once that said if you put an old water heater out in front of yyour home the plumbing inspector might stop and start asking questions......what happens when you refuse his entry into your home? I know here they would never get entry based on a water heater sitting on the curb or an empty box.


I'm sure it is different from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction but both the UPC and the IPC address this under their "Right of Entry" sections. The AA simple needs to believe illegal work has been done and they have the right to enter. If they are refused entry the courts have to issue an "Inspection Warrant". I personally have never seen where the courts have not issued the warrant. Once a code is adopted it carries legal weight in the courts.

Mark


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I remember reading a post once that said if you put an old water heater out in front of yyour home the plumbing inspector might stop and start asking questions......what happens when you refuse his entry into your home? I know here they would never get entry based on a water heater sitting on the curb or an empty box.


Nothing would happen. They would have to get a court order. It would not be worth the trouble or the bad PR. Inspectors answer to Building Officials,and that is very much a political posistion, answering to the City Manager. If they can catch someone in the act, they can issue a stop work order. Beyond that it would take a major backing from higher ups with iron cohunas.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I wish they would start trying that,i think it would be FUN. Just put the old heater in front of the neighbors house......and watch the fun start:laughing:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I wish they would start trying that,i think it would be FUN. Just put the old heater in front of the neighbors house......and watch the fun start:laughing:


I sort of done something like that. I haul away the heater, and put it out in front of my mom's house for the junk guys to come pick up. The local code enforcement officer came by and asked to see the permit for the new water heater that was installed in the house. My mom told him she runs a plumbing company out of the house and her guys put the old heaters from jobs in the front for the junk man. She had to show him her office and our 055 contractors license to satisfy him.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Talk about water heaters and power. I was dropping a water heater off at a junk guys house, when I left a game warden pulled me over. I am in a plumbing truck with all the signs. Game wardens in Texas have more authority than any agency. He wanted to search my truck, what can I say? He searches the front, then crawls in the back of the utility bed. He starts digging through a lawn bag full of roots I had gotten out of sewers. I let him go on for a while, then I ask him why he stopped me? He informed me that I just left a mans house that was known to prosses(sp) illegal game, what was I doing there? I explained, and he kept me there for 30 more minutes, smoking a cig. every now and then, When he said I could go, I told him what was in the bag he had been digging in and he might want to wash his hands and brush his teeth. Payback is hell...


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Nice going Rambo, at least you didn't try to stab him with a survival knife when he searched your truck.:laughing:


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> I sort of done something like that. I haul away the heater, and put it out in front of my mom's house for the junk guys to come pick up. The local code enforcement officer came by and asked to see the permit for the new water heater that was installed in the house. My mom told him she runs a plumbing company out of the house and her guys put the old heaters from jobs in the front for the junk man. She had to show him her office and our 055 contractors license to satisfy him.


 Its probebly the neighbors complaining. I mean you run a co out of your moms house and the guys dump the trash out front Get a clue dude!!


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Its probebly the neighbors complaining. I mean you run a co out of your moms house and the guys dump the trash out front Get a clue dude!!


This isn't Ron's first rodeo...


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

They can have a warrant in about 5 minutes. Once the homeowner realizes this fact, they usually allow access rather than get their entire plumbing system picked apart.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

If they know plumbing work has been done and not inspected, can't they slap one of those pretty bright orange "Not Fit For Human Occupancy" stickers on the door? I have seen more than a few of those in my day.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Talk about water heaters and power. I was dropping a water heater off at a junk guys house, when I left a game warden pulled me over. I am in a plumbing truck with all the signs. Game wardens in Texas have more authority than any agency. He wanted to search my truck, what can I say? He searches the front, then crawls in the back of the utility bed. He starts digging through a lawn bag full of roots I had gotten out of sewers. I let him go on for a while, then I ask him why he stopped me? He informed me that I just left a mans house that was known to prosses(sp) illegal game, what was I doing there? I explained, and he kept me there for 30 more minutes, smoking a cig. every now and then, When he said I could go, I told him what was in the bag he had been digging in and he might want to wash his hands and brush his teeth. Payback is hell...


 I would have told him "Hell no you cant search without a warrant you F'ing A hole" Not a damn thing he could have done about it but smile and get a warrant. I'm alittle high strung and dont mind smarting off,badges dont scare me.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> They can have a warrant in about 5 minutes. Once the homeowner realizes this fact, they usually allow access rather than get their entire plumbing system picked apart.


Have you seen this happen first hand? What do they have in IL,the plumbing gustopo? I was Chief Plumbing Inspector with the same codes and powers as most, and that would have been absolutley insane for us to go through that for a water heater.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> They can have a warrant in about 5 minutes. Once the homeowner realizes this fact, they usually allow access rather than get their entire plumbing system picked apart.


 Every water heater i replaced would go in a friends front yard just to mess with them...they would get tired of chasing the dragon eventually.:laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I would have told him "Hell no you cant search without a warrant you F'ing A hole" Not a damn thing he could have done about it but smile and get a warrant. I'm alittle high strung and dont mind smarting off,badges dont scare me.


In Texas Game Wardens can go in anywhere anytime and search anything without a warrant. They take game laws serious in Texas. Like IL Plumbing Inspectors. And the same Warden was shot by 2 brothers at Lake O the Pines.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I would have told him "Hell no you cant search without a warrant you F'ing A hole" Not a damn thing he could have done about it but smile and get a warrant. I'm alittle high strung and dont mind smarting off,badges dont scare me.


The game warden would have arrested him on the spot, and getting his truck back would suck in a major way and cost a fortune.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> In Texas Game Wardens can go in anywhere anytime and search anything without a warrant. They take game laws serious in Texas. Like IL Plumbing Inspectors.


 So what your telling me is you dont have any constitutional rights if you live in Texas and the game Warden is dealing with you. I would have cussed him the whole time he was searching it. Put money on that


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Its probebly the neighbors complaining. I mean you run a co out of your moms house and the guys dump the trash out front Get a clue dude!!


You want a me to get a clue.. YOU want me to get a clue. Well we are in an area where the nearest neighbor is a half a block away, and he runs a business out of his house as well. So I highly doubt it was him. We have been running our company out of my mothers house for over 50 years. Well make that 40 years, for a while we rented a shop, but then the landlords got greedy so we went back to the house.

The local code enforcement officer was driving through the area since lots of people have been buying up some of the older homes and been flipping them in this area. Why not ask for all the facts before you tell anyone to get a clue.... OK Buddy?


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> So what your telling me is you dont have any constitutional rights if you live in Texas and the game Warden is dealing with you. I would have cussed him the whole time he was searching it. Put money on that



Illinois is the same way, as are many states.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

They can hit you with a double permit fee here. Kinda hard to enforce though when you buy the permit before the enforcement officer submits his paperwork.:whistling2:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Illinois is the same way, as are many states.


 Illinois even regulates ammo to the 5th degree.....I dont doubt you. If it can be against the law IT IS in IL.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> So what your telling me is you dont have any constitutional rights if you live in Texas and the game Warden is dealing with you. I would have cussed him the whole time he was searching it. Put money on that


When it comes to poaching, anything goes with these folks. They can come in and search your house anytime, if they have any idea you might have been involved. They will take your vehicle, guns and hit you with fines that the IRS would envy.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> When it comes to poaching, anything goes with these folks. They can come in and search your house anytime, if they have any idea you might have been involved. They will take your vehicle, guns and hit you with fines that the IRS would envy.


I understand if your hunting or have guns in the truck with you. But to just pull over at random and search for wild life is a violation of the constitution. I guessing they dont pull that crap much unless they have good reason.
So basically anybodys house in Texas can be searched without a warrant if the game warden wants to search it PERIOD.
Somthing just dont sound right with that,I'ma hafta check ya on that one.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

In the state of Florida, an inspector has the same rights as a police officer. All he has to do is go get a search warrant and a sheriff will show up with him. If you refuse entry they will kick the door in.

That's what the law says, but most municipalities don't care enough about a water heater install to go through all of that.



TheMaster said:


> I remember reading a post once that said if you put an old water heater out in front of yyour home the plumbing inspector might stop and start asking questions......what happens when you refuse his entry into your home? I know here they would never get entry based on a water heater sitting on the curb or an empty box.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I understand if your hunting or have guns in the truck with you. But to just pull over at random and search for wild life is a violation of the constitution. I guessing they dont pull that crap much unless they have good reason.


I didn't have any firearms with me. It's like any other cop, just more power. If you get a bad one, he will put the fear in everybody. They can take everything you own that could be linked to poaching. One piece of illeagal meat in a freezer, holy crap! The wrong one might just have a few pieces with him... Some cops might carry throwdown pieces (guns) Game Warden could just throw down a few feathers.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I've done that a few times before. He said he was going to call in a canine to sniff around my car and that if there was any drugs or explosives the dog will know and they will have the right to search without consent. I called his bluff and they never called the dog (not that I give a crap). If I have a cracked tail light or something that they can right a ticket on I'll let them search because they will usually not right you up if you play ball and be really respectful. If there is absolutely nothing that I can be ticketed with, I tell them to take a hike.



TheMaster said:


> I would have told him "Hell no you cant search without a warrant you F'ing A hole" Not a damn thing he could have done about it but smile and get a warrant. I'm alittle high strung and dont mind smarting off,badges dont scare me.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> I didn't have any firearms with me. It's like any other cop, just more power. If you get a bad one, he will put the fear in everybody. They can take everything you own that could be linked to poaching. One piece of illeagal meat in a freezer, holy crap! The wrong one might just have a few pieces with him...


 Problem is when you do an honest man wrong they will take action eventually. If an official decides to set someone up they are taking a big risk that will follow them for the rest of their life. I know some dudes that of you do dirty you better leave and dont let them know where you are because eventually they would regulate.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

So what they say is true "Don't mess with Texas!":jester:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Look I'm really respectful to law officers if I'm treated with respect. Most of the law officials I have dealt with were damn good people just doing their jobs. I respect that,but when I'm working and trying to earn a living and get harrassed because i dropped some heaters off then i'ma fly off the handle. Its a good thing i dont live there because i'd have problems. I know dudes that when they get pulled over they wont even talk...they write notes. I have told an officer where i was going was none of his business....He agreed and left it at that...I think he was just rrying to engage me with a conversation....i said it politely as possible.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Look I'm really respectful to law officers if I'm treated with respect. Most of the law officials I have dealt with were damn good people just doing their jobs. I respect that,but when I'm working and trying to earn a living and get harrassed because i dropped some heaters off then i'ma fly off the handle. Its a good thing i dont live there because i'd have problems. I know dudes that when they get pulled over they wont even talk...they write notes. I have told an officer where i was going was none of his business....He agreed and left it at that...I think he was just rrying to engage me with a conversation....i said it politely as possible.


Believe me, I have NO problem standing up for myself, to my own detriment on occasion. But Game Wardens I will not provoke, they will hurt me BAD where it hurts, my wallet.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Well thankfully you get to see a judge about it all and have an attorney. The game warden is gonna F'up one day and mess with sombody importants kid or friend and that'll mark the beginning of the end of his job.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Like I said, this Warden was ambushed by 2 brothers (real brothers) that tried to kill him. Later he became Sheriff. His name was Tom McKool, I remember it well.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

There is nothing like having your truck searched until you are parked in the Sally Port of a prison. You have people in the pit below your truck, on either side, in the back, in the cab and in the engine compartment. I was actually a little embarrassed my truck was not clean when I got there.

Mark


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> There is nothing like having your truck searched until you are parked in the Sally Port of a prison. You have people in the pit below your truck, on either side, in the back, in the cab and in the engine compartment. I was actually a little embarrassed my truck was not clean when I got there.
> 
> Mark


I used to be a prison guard. I used to have to strip searches the convicts when they went in and out of the visiting room. I used to pray they weren't dirty. Nothing like making a gump spread 'em and seeing a cored out bunghole winking at ya.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Never have that problem here. Just set that wh out on the street, go back in the house and the next time you go outside it will be gone :laughing:!


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Sorry Ron, No I dont know all the facts I have never heard of such a thing and thought it was pure BS . That a building inspector would make some lady let him in her house/ office and then demand to see contractors license to be satisfied, is quiet supprising. So I was kidding you a bit! I am a skeptic but if you say its so ... Then I stand corrected and appropriatly , tarred and feathered.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Who did I run into at lunch? A Game Warden. The way the law reads, they can search any compartment of any kind, of any size, anywhere, that could hold any amount of game, without a warrant. I would say that just about covered everything.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Who did I run into at lunch? A Game Warden. The way the law reads, they can search any compartment of any kind, of any size, anywhere, that could hold any amount of game, without a warrant. I would say that just about covered everything.


 Any compartment sounds like a vehicle or a boat,etc...not peoples houses. I still think they should hafta have a warrant......thats makes two people responsible then,checks and balance.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Any compartment sounds like a vehicle or a boat,etc...not peoples houses. I still think they should hafta have a warrant......thats makes two people responsible then,checks and balance.


DEA agents need no warrant, only a reasonable suspicion to search your house, they can get the warrant after you've been sitting in jail for two weeks and it is perfectly legal.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> DEA agents need no warrant, only a reasonable suspicion to search your house, they can get the warrant after you've been sitting in jail for two weeks and it is perfectly legal.


 What do you call reasonable suspicion?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Any compartment sounds like a vehicle or a boat,etc...not peoples houses. I still think they should hafta have a warrant......thats makes two people responsible then,checks and balance.


The way he explained it to me was it is any space he needs to check. Personal or otherwise. I told him my story about Tom Mckool. He ask if I told him about what was in the bag, I said yeah, after he was finished. These men and women are no-nonsense people while in uniform, but he was about to bust out laughing. If you could picture this guy, pulling the roots apart, searching for remains


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

What I would have asked the game warden is this...."Why do you stop me and search me when you think the guy's house I left is selling wild game when you have the power to just go search his house at will?"


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> What do you call reasonable suspicion?


It doesn't matter what I consider, the question is what do they consider. One that I talked to said it could be something as simple as an unusual amount of empty cold medicine containers in someone's garbage.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> What I would have asked the game warden is this...."Why do you stop me and search me when you think the guy's house I left is selling wild game when you have the power to just go search his house at will?"


He was wanting to get a multiple head count.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I believe that the actual legal term is "probable cause".

The trouble is, it's one of those wishy washy grey areas of the law. "Probable cause" is kinda like "reasonable person". They love to throw those terms around in the legal system. Their definition varies from person to person. It just comes down to which people sit on the jury, the judges personality and how good the lawyers are on each side. Funny how in several thousand years the laws on whether you live or die still come down to how the guy with the bigger stick is feeling that day............:001_unsure:



TheMaster said:


> What do you call reasonable suspicion?


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Any compartment sounds like a vehicle or a boat,etc...not peoples houses. I still think they should hafta have a warrant......thats makes two people responsible then,checks and balance.


National fuel gas code says a gas valve (Dante) to a vent free logset must be in the same "compartment".


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> National fuel gas code says a gas valve (Dante) to a vent free logset must be in the same "compartment".


 So they could search the fireplace compartment and nothing else.:laughing:


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> They can have a warrant in about 5 minutes. Once the homeowner realizes this fact, they usually allow access rather than get their entire plumbing system picked apart.


I've witnessed something close (it wasn't 5 minutes and it was a restaurant) by a now deceased state plumbing inspector.

Now THAT was a sight to see.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Probable cause is kind of an ambiguous term. As an example, I was returning from Utah one year after a deer hunt. At the Agricultural Check Point in Yermo, California the traffic was backed up for miles. When I got to the check point I found the Fish and Game Departments of California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming had a joint check point set up. Everyone in a motor-home or pickup or anyone who looked like a hunting group was sent to an inspection area. They went through every compartment on every vehicle and unloaded many pickup beds and trailers looking for illegal game.

At first I was pissed off and then I saw the camper shell next to me had 10-beavers under the carpet kit. None of them had been cleaned and they were all shot with a 22. The department for the State he had been in was brought over to document everything and a videographer took videos for evidence. The game was confiscated and they handcuffed the guy. Several other people around me were cited for processing legal game but no proof of a license or tag. I was clean in that all I had was a buck in a game bag tied to the seat of my quad which was on a small trailer. However, they still went through my cab and every opening on my sleeper camper.

Mark


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