# Which heater is better



## PlumberJoeOk

50 gallon low budget water heater.... Which is better AO smith or Bradford white


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## Hoosier Plumber

Bradford is preferred by a majority of plumbing contractors.


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## Leach713

Rheem


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## RealLivePlumber

Leach713 said:


> Rheem


And you can even buy it a home de pot.......:whistling2:


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## Leach713

Not around here


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## Redwood

Leach713 said:


> Not around here


Really?
Are you sure about that?
Stock Check Homer at Gulfgate Mall....
Gottem? You Betcha! :thumbup:


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## Leach713

No sh'' never knew 

So ge manufacture Rheem?


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## Redwood

Leach713 said:


> No sh'' never knew
> 
> So ge manufacture Rheem?


No! Rheem manufactures GE Gas & Electric Water Heaters...


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## Leach713

Ooooh 

Rheem is pretty good heaters though from my experiences 
Easy to services 
Never heard anything bad about them till know... Enlighten me


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## plbgbiz

Summary of residential water heater differences:


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## MootsNYC

plbgbiz said:


> Summary of residential water heater differences:


Agreed. I've had brand new AO smiths leak 30 minutes after leaving the job and I've installed one's 8 years ago that are still kicking. Bradford white though I've never had a single problem with. Great heaters


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## Redwood

plbgbiz said:


> Summary of residential water heater differences:


Well I'd say there are a few exceptions to the rule...

For electrics:
Whirlpool Energy Smart Electric Water Heaters aren't something I'd inflict on a customer...

For Gas:
I'd just say that Bradford White has the best FVIR Design followed close by Rheem/Ruud/Richmond, with AO Smith out in left field...


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## Tommy plumber

I remember when the T&P valves were in their own little box just thrown into the bigger water heater box. It was up to the installer to install the T&P in the heater. Apparently some yahoos weren't installing them and I suppose there was an issue of some kind. So now the manufacturers are themselves installing the T&P valves in the heaters.


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## rjbphd

Never ever Whirlpool heater again.. Richmond is the heater to install.. made by Rheem


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## Best Darn Sewer

Yeah, flipping a coin is about right these days. I like Rheem but hell, the location of the tank and the quality of the installation has more to do with the heater lasting than the manufacturer. As already stated all of them can fail. Like I tell my customers when they ask, " Why did it go out so soon?" It is man-made. Man has yet to make a perfect product that can't fail. It is going to happen sooner or later and sometimes its sooner.

All that said, I think American Craftmaster, who make the Whirlpool heaters Lowes carry, are complete garbage and are terribly designed.


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## Redwood

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Yeah, flipping a coin is about right these days. I like Rheem but hell, the location of the tank and the quality of the installation has more to do with the heater lasting than the manufacturer. As already stated all of them can fail. Like I tell my customers when they ask, " Why did it go out so soon?" It is man-made. Man has yet to make a perfect product that can't fail. It is going to happen sooner or later and sometimes its sooner.
> 
> All that said, I think American Craftmaster, who make the Whirlpool heaters Lowes carry, are complete garbage and are terribly designed.


Of course they are an AO Smith Company... :laughing:


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## Best Darn Sewer

Redwood said:


> Of course they are an AO Smith Company... :laughing:


Really? I didn't know that. I guess all of them will one day merge and make all kinds of different subsidiary water heaters brands so we can still trash talk some and praise others while the one company profits from all of it.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Redwood said:


> Well I'd say there are a few exceptions to the rule...
> 
> For electrics:
> Whirlpool Energy Smart Electric Water Heaters aren't something I'd inflict on a customer...
> 
> For Gas:
> I'd just say that Bradford White has the best FVIR Design followed close by Rheem/Ruud/Richmond, with AO Smith out in left field...


I agree, compared to the rest, the FVIR BW uses is good. Its their icon thermostat that has issues here.


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## dclarke

If its electric you could sell the rheem marathon. EXPENSIVE for an electric water heater but lifetime warranty on the tank.


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## 3KP

I prefer rheem. But we provide services for property management that buys the water heaters, they buy what is on sale. ( state select, Bradford white, and vanguard) Never know until you get to the job:yes:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

I like this thread. Oddly enough, I replace more Bradford whites then I do states of the same age. I mainly sell states and that's do to the fact of the contractor rewards that Bradford white doesn't offer. Another thing, Bradford white has no presence here in the box stores. When a customer ask the difference, I tell them one is grey colored and one is cream colored. One has a black sticker. One has a red sticker. Aren't most water heaters manufactured in the same Tennessee town?


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## mightypipe

Redwood said:


> No! Rheem manufactures GE Gas & Electric Water Heaters...


Actually, Paloma manufactures Rheem, and GE heaters... As well as others.


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## MTDUNN

I wish Rheem would reposition the T&P to 10 or 2 O'clock instead of 12. It hits the wall and they tighten the **** out of it

This would be on their electrics


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## Will

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I like this thread. Oddly enough, I replace more Bradford whites then I do states of the same age. I mainly sell states and that's do to the fact of the contractor rewards that Bradford white doesn't offer. Another thing, Bradford white has no presence here in the box stores. When a customer ask the difference, I tell them one is grey colored and one is cream colored. One has a black sticker. One has a red sticker. Aren't most water heaters manufactured in the same Tennessee town?




I used to like State, but corect me if I'm wrong, there the same as AO Smith now?

I like Bradford White, used to install Rheem, but I use Bradford White now. Can't go wrong with Bradford White or Rheem, the others I'd stay away from....


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## FEDguy

From my experience...I really havent seen a whole lot of differance in any brand electric water heater. 
Here in Eastern N. Carolina we have very hard water, so sediment builds up really quick.
I usually install Rheem because that what my supplier stocks, but when he's closed....I have to buy whirlpool from Lowes.

I just replaced my mothers whirlpool (6 year) heater due to the tank leaking at the weld.....it lasted 13 years. That's pretty good around here.

The main differance that I see in the Lowes heaters are those [email protected]$$ plastic drain valves. 

In my perfect world, all tanks should have a brass ball valve and a large enough access so I could get my arm in the tank to remove that sediment.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Will said:


> I used to like State, but corect me if I'm wrong, there the same as AO Smith now? I like Bradford White, used to install Rheem, but I use Bradford White now. Can't go wrong with Bradford White or Rheem, the others I'd stay away from....


AOsmith and state are the same yes


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## rjbphd

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> AOsmith and state are the same yes


So is SubwaY


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## Nathan901

MTDUNN said:


> I wish Rheem would reposition the T&P to 10 or 2 O'clock instead of 12. It hits the wall and they tighten the **** out of it This would be on their electrics


I had a rheem 40 gal low one time that came with the t&p pre-installed. After i filled it and checked all the solder joints and turned on the power, heard the elements fire, so I cleaned up. 

After I got the ticket all written up and came back to give it a final check, I noticed the little plastic sleeve where the t&p goes through the jacket was filled with water.... Ah, that dream crushing feeling.

So I cut the copper apart and try to tighten it, just to see how tight it was. It seemed pretty loose and after about half a turn I felt it starting to get more and more loose as I was trying to tighten it. I felt it slip and then it just spun. So I get it to catch back in the threads, pull it out, and it was threaded in so far that it the very top thread was the only one sealing it.Insanity. I'm just glad I saw it really. 

I have bad experiences with every brand I've used at some point though lol.


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## plbgbiz

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> AOsmith and state are the same yes


Same ownership but I think the specs vary just a bit.


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## wyrickmech

Does state electric w/h still come with a clean out in the jacket?


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## plumberkc

AO Smith has a better tank, Bradford White has a more reliable gas valve. I only install Bradford White.


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## love2surf927

plumberkc said:


> AO Smith has a better tank, Bradford White has a more reliable gas valve. I only install Bradford White.


Anything to back up the statement about the tanks? I install exclusively Bradford for the record.


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## Bigwrenchjosh

I'm a Bradford guy, just for the record also. Their reliability upon install is great, well designed and the warranty work that I have to do on them has always been paid for.......eventually. 
My real preference for them is that you can't buy Bradford-White anywhere retail. They say right on the front "for plumbing professionals only". They may have another brand that they manufacture and sell at ACE, but I'm not aware of it.


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## Redwood

Of course there are some really good water heaters that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread...


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## love2surf927

Redwood said:


> Of course there are some really good water heaters that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread...


And what's different about these?


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## Will

Anyone install State gas water heaters? Fergie has some screaming good deals right now on them


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## texplum0801

Most everyone down here installs rheem.


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## MTDUNN

Redwood said:


> Of course there are some really good water heaters that haven't been mentioned yet in this thread...


I've been looking into these and found a local distributor here. 

The SS tanks impress me. Not since they stopped making copper tanks has there been something that can last. 

Rheem Marathon has a polybutylene tank with wound fiberglass for strength. Lifetime warranty on the tank is a good selling point. When these first came out, they didn't sell. I am starting to see these more and more. I put 1 or 2 ins month now


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## Redwood

love2surf927 said:


> And what's different about these?


316L Stainless Steel Tanks....


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## nhmaster3015

For electric all we sell is Bradford. Their glass lining is superior


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## plumberkc

love2surf927 said:


> Anything to back up the statement about the tanks? I install exclusively Bradford for the record.


I can definitely say that Bradford White has a more reliable gas valve just from my personal experience. Almost never see a BW gas valve fail before the first 10 years, especially the ICON. Although there are a lot of BW heaters installed around Kansas City, AO Smith is the most common gas valve to fail followed closely by Hotpoint, Kenmore, & Whirlpool. 

As for the better tank, I really can't back that up, it's just a guess. I replace a lot of AO Smith water heaters but it's almost never due to a leaking tank. I also see a lot of 20-25 yr old AO Smith tanks that are still working. I do think that there were more AO Smith's sold than Bradford White before 1995, at least in Kansas City.


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## incarnatopnh

Will said:


> Anyone install State gas water heaters? Fergie has some screaming good deals right now on them


STATE. I used to use Bradford White. I had a few tanks go bad early and I get a much better price on State's.


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## redbeardplumber

incarnatopnh said:


> STATE. I used to use Bradford White. I had a few tanks go bad early and I get a much better price on State's.


I'm trying to fix my buddy's stupid state.... Fusible link for a thermocouple.. No thanks


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## Will

Have you cleaned the flame arrestor and installed new pilot assembly? Pretty straight forward repair if parts are in your area


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## Best Darn Sewer

Will said:


> Have you cleaned the flame arrestor and installed new pilot assembly? Pretty straight forward repair if parts are in your area


True except that it is a dumb design IMO. Why put a delicate fusible link that close to the burner? I have had to replace so many of those here because they fail or break so easily. I have seen a lot that were bypassed by using a regular thermocouple i can only assume because the hack who did it didn't know better.
They cost about $50 -$75 in parts. I prefer the thermopile and sensor on the door (sp?) BW uses.


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## Redwood

Best Darn Sewer said:


> True except that it is a dumb design IMO. Why put a delicate fusible link that close to the burner? I have had to replace so many of those here because they fail or break so easily. I have seen a lot that were bypassed by using a regular thermocouple i can only assume because the hack who did it didn't know better.
> They cost about $50 -$75 in parts. I prefer the thermopile and sensor on the door (sp?) BW uses.


The idea of a one-time thermal link without the parts being rapidly available is the dumb part...

Which was the whole reason for the FlameGuard Class Action Lawsuit and the "Burner Enhancement Kit."

Once that little problem was resolved the only real design flaw is that the combustion air inlet is on the bottom of the water heater kind of looking like a Hoover Vacuum Cleaner... :laughing:

Which is why I give Bradford-White, Rheem, Richmond, Ruud, & GE, higher marks on their design. Bradford White rises to the top with a larger surface area on the flame arrestor hence more clog resistant from the larger area and lower velocity flow. Also Rheem, Richmond, Ruud, & GE, use an oil filled glass vial as their one-time thermal link so they fall to second place in reliability as far as the FVIR System Design. IMHO...


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## Best Darn Sewer

I have used a brush and shop-vac a lot to clean those filters on state and American craftmaster. Never have I had to clean a filter on BW.


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## Will

Yes Bradford White is top dog for sure, but there Thermopiles fail too, as do the ignitors. The combustion chamber door is harder to remove and put back than States. Also Bradford White have poor heat trap nipples that leak, and there T&P threads on the tank are poor and prone to leaking. I know this by installing them exclusively since the day I opened my company, they are not a perfect heater. I will say they have the best FVIR design by far. 

I have installed a grand total of 3 State water heater so far, so I can't speak much for them yet.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Will said:


> Yes Bradford White is top dog for sure, but there Thermopiles fail too, as do the ignitors. The combustion chamber door is harder to remove and put back than States. Also Bradford White have poor heat trap nipples that leak, and there T&P threads on the tank are poor and prone to leaking. I know this by installing them exclusively since the day I opened my company, they are not a perfect heater. I will say they have the best FVIR design by far.
> 
> I have installed a grand total of 3 State water heater so far, so I can't speak much for them yet.


Couldn't have said it better myself regarding BW. I've installed them since '04 and have had similar issues. All brands have their issues. Pick your poison.


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## wyrickmech

More than likely you can have trouble with any brand. Over the tears I have seen where the tried and true model that everybody used no matter what brand has went south due to cheaper parts or reengineering. When I started here state was cutting edge,now nobody will even sell them locally. Ream was a popular brand and ao smith to. Now Bradford white seems to be the choice so everybody has had a peak moment. One that has emerged on the market here is intellihot on the tankless. What is the view on this one.


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## plbgbiz

wyrickmech said:


> More than likely you can have trouble with any brand. Over the tears I have seen where the tried and true model that everybody used no matter what brand has went south due to cheaper parts or reengineering. When I started here state was cutting edge,now nobody will even sell them locally. Ream was a popular brand and ao smith to. Now Bradford white seems to be the choice so everybody has had a peak moment. One that has emerged on the market here is intellihot on the tankless. What is the view on this one.


never heard of it.


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## Letterrip

Redwood said:


> : IMHO...


Humble my arse!!!!


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## wyrickmech

plbgbiz said:


> never heard of it.


 ferguson rep brought some ligature buy they may just be for larger applications. Looks like a they work as a standard tankless but they have a coiled heat exchanger. The thermal expansion and contraction supposedly breaks calcium deposits up and helps self clean.


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## wyrickmech

Here you go


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## coloradomarc

*we replace alot of state heaters*



incarnatopnh said:


> STATE. I used to use Bradford White. I had a few tanks go bad early and I get a much better price on State's.


 not sure why but most of the newer heaters we replace are states. They seem to develope sediment buildup much quicker and crackle and pop alot when firing. I would say 50% of the heaters we replace are state water heaters and many of them are less than 7 years old.


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## incarnatopnh

coloradomarc said:


> not sure why but most of the newer heaters we replace are states. They seem to develope sediment buildup much quicker and crackle and pop alot when firing. I would say 50% of the heaters we replace are state water heaters and many of them are less than 7 years old.


Funny because that is the exact problem we have here with Bradford White's


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## Will

The Inellihot looks alot like Eternal


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## wyrickmech

Will said:


> The Inellihot looks alot like Eternal


 It isn't i ask that same thing.


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## Marlin

plbgbiz said:


> Summary of residential water heater differences:


From what I've seen that's about right. Most of the ones I pull out are between twelve and twenty years old and I don't see one failing more often then the other. I usually install Bradford White and I've only installed one AO Smith (the customer wanted it). It had a bad thermopile out of the box. I wouldn't fault them for that, it happens The way they handled it I think was terrible. 

I called around trying to find a replacement thermopile and couldn't find one stocked anywhere. So I called AO Smith figuring they could find me one or at the very least overnight one to me. Nope, they wanted to send another company they use for their warranty work to the house to diagnose and repair the heater. 

So here is a customer that just paid for a new water heater and I'm supposed to tell them that I'm leaving them with no hot water until another company comes the next day to look at it. At that point their is no guarantee they have the parts on the truck and may need to order them and take another day. So two days with no hot water for someone with a brand new heater, I can't have that. 

I ended up splicing in a regular thermopile to get it working then had the correct one shipped. So a hundred bucks in parts and a bunch of aggravation.


Bradford White, I've seen three tanks go bad within the warranty period out of hundreds we installed. One of them was immediately upon filling, water started pouring out of it. The others were a couple years old. We also got one Bradford White with no threads for the T&P, oops. With Bradford I just bring the sticker back to the supply house, tell them what's wrong and off I go with a new heater.


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## Will

I'd like to know some real world feed back on State gas water heaters. Anyone here installing them?


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## incarnatopnh

Will said:


> I'd like to know some real world feed back on State gas water heaters. Anyone here installing them?


I install only State. Never had a callback. I used to install Bradford White but they don't last around here. There are 20 year old States around here that are still going strong. Bradford White lasts about 8 years here.


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## Best Darn Sewer

incarnatopnh said:


> I install only State. Never had a callback. I used to install Bradford White but they don't last around here. There are 20 year old States around here that are still going strong. Bradford White lasts about 8 years here.


Interesting. I wonder what the difference is. Because it is the opposite here.


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## Dog

RHEEM never had a problem


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## Will

Been putting in Bradford Whites again. States might be slightly cheaper, but I've had to good of luck with Bradford's to switch to State. Plus I like that Bradford's are made in USA and only found in supply houses.


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## ShaneP

How many of you guys stock the common sizes of water heater? We used to stock a few years ago, but now we just pick them up as needed. That means depending on what part of town we are in what brand we install. Right now that means it is either BW or State. I have not noticed any more problems from one or the other. Both have sent me back to the supply house at one time or another for different reasons.


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## MootsNYC

ShaneP said:


> How many of you guys stock the common sizes of water heater? We used to stock a few years ago, but now we just pick them up as needed. That means depending on what part of town we are in what brand we install. Right now that means it is either BW or State. I have not noticed any more problems from one or the other. Both have sent me back to the supply house at one time or another for different reasons.


 My shop stocks 3 to 4 water heaters. Not to many but come in handy when in a pinch.


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## ShaneP

I am thinking about starting to stock a few makes it nice for emergency after hours calls.


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## MootsNYC

ShaneP said:


> I am thinking about starting to stock a few makes it nice for emergency after hours calls.


Exactly why we stock.


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## incarnatopnh

ShaneP said:


> I am thinking about starting to stock a few makes it nice for emergency after hours calls.


I used to stock one 40 gallon natural gas and one electric. Since I switched supply houses I no longer need to. The house I buy States from will open up for emergencies. They charge a $50 fee for it but it sure beats tying up money and space on extra inventory


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## sparky

PlumberJoeOk said:


> 50 gallon low budget water heater.... Which is better AO smith or Bradford white


I will take Bradford white any day over smith,had better luck with them,my salesman used to work at smith,now he sells bw and according to him the bw are much much better than smiths,not near as many bws were brought back and smiths had a lot of returns with leaks and other problems


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## sparky

ShaneP said:


> How many of you guys stock the common sizes of water heater? We used to stock a few years ago, but now we just pick them up as needed. That means depending on what part of town we are in what brand we install. Right now that means it is either BW or State. I have not noticed any more problems from one or the other. Both have sent me back to the supply house at one time or another for different reasons.


state a few yrs back had a major flaw in them,would leak around the elements for some reason,i think it has been fixed,but im gun shy on states and they are a lot higher also.we put a lot of states in yrs ago and they gave us so much headache that I will not use a state unless no other choice.


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