# 10 gallon ao smith



## DogGod (Jul 7, 2021)

Show continued over from the Murphy's Law thread. The 10 gallon water heater that I installed with all of the problems that I had has another problem now. Turns out that the voltage coming in is 277 and not 120 that was rated on the old heater as well as the new heater.

So my first question to The Forum would be does anyone know if it's possible to convert 120 volt electric 10 gallon AO Smith water heater to 277 volt and how?

Already spoke with the manufacturer that says that it's not rated for that. But obviously somebody came in and converted the other heater / 277 that lasted for over 10 years

Obviously at this point I've already thought about just filling the heater up with hydraulic cement.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

It’s been a very long time since I’ve worked with electric stuff like that. Skoro could probably answer that best. My guess is that it would be more expensive. New thermostat, new elements… I wonder if the mfg would be talking about tank integrity? But I don’t see why. Heat is heat. Change the guts if available. Not your fault you replaced what was there with the same. Just like I’m not responsible for the condition of someone’s rotted drain lines.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

To answer your question, yes it can be changed. Different element and t stat. But you’re flirting with the whole changing an item from it’s rated use thing.

and there’s nothing wrong with the heater. The wrong one got put in. Also, you must not have checked voltage before changing it. Why would you check it you ask? To avoid $hit like this. You must not have checked the new heater for proper operation after you put it in. Had you checked voltage and amp draw you would have caught it. Always check voltage before and after. How do I know this? I’ve done the exact same thing.
Also, 277v is phase to neutral from 480 3ph. It’s very common in large buildings . It will kill you in an instant. It is not to be taken for granted.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Toli said:


> .............
> Also, 277v is phase to neutral from 480 3ph. It’s very common in large buildings . It will kill you in an instant. It is not to be taken for granted.


If he wired the elements in series and used only the bottom t-stat to switch one leg how long do you think the elements would last?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Toli said:


> To answer your question, yes it can be changed. Different element and t stat. But you’re flirting with the whole changing an item from it’s rated use thing.
> 
> and there’s nothing wrong with the heater. The wrong one got put in. Also, you must not have checked voltage before changing it. Why would you check it you ask? To avoid $hit like this. You must not have checked the new heater for proper operation after you put it in. Had you checked voltage and amp draw you would have caught it. Always check voltage before and after. How do I know this? I’ve done the exact same thing.
> Also, 277v is phase to neutral from 480 3ph. It’s very common in large buildings . It will kill you in an instant. It is not to be taken for granted.


110 is far more dangerous than 230 or 480. 110 won’t let you go, three phase will knock you away. I’ve felt every voltage live directly. D/C is the most painful.

But I can see liability issues by modifying an appliance.


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## DogGod (Jul 7, 2021)

Toli said:


> To answer your question, yes it can be changed. Different element and t stat. But you’re flirting with the whole changing an item from it’s rated use thing.
> 
> and there’s nothing wrong with the heater. The wrong one got put in. Also, you must not have checked voltage before changing it. Why would you check it you ask? To avoid $hit like this. You must not have checked the new heater for proper operation after you put it in. Had you checked voltage and amp draw you would have caught it. Always check voltage before and after. How do I know this? I’ve done the exact same thing.
> Also, 277v is phase to neutral from 480 3ph. It’s very common in large buildings . It will kill you in an instant. It is not to be taken for granted.



Yes you are right. I did not check the voltage and I'm sure that will never happen again. 

I'm a residential service plumber, I hardly have experiencein commercial. This new company I am working for runs things differently than I'm use to.

This job was estimated over the phone by the service manager. Parts were ordered and I was told pick up heater and install heater. 

However I shoulda expected issues and i should have checked all of the things. 

I was just wondering what the difference would be between the two heaters. Only one tstat and element in the thing and its accessible. I cant imagine there is a difference in the manufacturing of the heater itself. 

Anyways I appreciate the advice. It's one of those jobs where I've learned a good lesson and won't ever forget.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

That's the best/worse kind of experience


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

The lesson that sticks in your head and haunts you! Sweet dreams! I have more than a few….


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

You would have all the worst Nightmare's if you modify that water heater, just tell your boss to suck it up and order the right one !
I have done Warranty Water Heater work for all the big MFG'S, which involves working closely with their service people
so I know what I am talking about, also My Partner in the trades was a Master Electrician and we would never do that !


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

DogGod said:


> Show continued over from the Murphy's Law thread. The 10 gallon water heater that I installed with all of the problems that I had has another problem now. Turns out that the voltage coming in is 277 and not 120 that was rated on the old heater as well as the new heater.
> 
> So my first question to The Forum would be does anyone know if it's possible to convert 120 volt electric 10 gallon AO Smith water heater to 277 volt and how?
> 
> ...


Just run a short extension cord to a 110 plugin and be a hero,but I like the hydraulic cement way better in the water heater😅


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

I’d ditch the 10gal and go tankless. Most 277v point of use heaters I’ve seen in recent years are tankless. AO Smith makes one that I’ve installed plenty of times under remote hand wash sinks and other similar applications. Model # CPVA-30Y.


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## DogGod (Jul 7, 2021)

Sstratton6175 said:


> I’d ditch the 10gal and go tankless. Most 277v point of use heaters I’ve seen in recent years are tankless. AO Smith makes one that I’ve installed plenty of times under remote hand wash sinks and other similar applications. Model # CPVA-30Y.



And there it is. Great! Gonna check it out.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tankless = service. 😉


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Can’t you just wire it in the breaker panel for 120 volts. Seems like the easiest thing to do. Take one leg off the breaker, wrap white electrical tape around it and plug it in the common bar.


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

Debo22 said:


> Can’t you just wire it in the breaker panel for 120 volts. Seems like the easiest thing to do. Take one leg off the breaker, wrap white electrical tape around it and plug it in the common bar.


The panel itself is 277v. You’d have to run the line to a completely different panel that’s got 120v.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Debo22 said:


> Can’t you just wire it in the breaker panel for 120 volts. Seems like the easiest thing to do. Take one leg off the breaker, wrap white electrical tape around it and plug it in the common bar.


Technically yes, code wise no.


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## DogGod (Jul 7, 2021)

277v is like 120v as in it has one hot one neutral 
240v runs 2 hots 120v on each
At least I think that is correct.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Sstratton6175 said:


> The panel itself is 277v. You’d have to run the line to a completely different panel that’s got 120v.


I was thinking standard 240 volt


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

DogGod said:


> And there it is. Great! Gonna check it out.


Be higher also


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## JimmyMac (Nov 4, 2015)

The tankless is not a bad option, I would be wary of the flow rate have tried these in the past and have to use a super low flow aerator for it to heat the water to an acceptable temp. Not sure the application if just a handsink should be fine....I'd be wary of converting it to 277V element, most standard t-stats are rated for 120/277v( just checked one in my shop and it was rated for both)...If you did convert I would be SURE to label the HECK out of that heater.


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## JimmyMac (Nov 4, 2015)

Also as much fun as you guys make of non-licensed plumbers, jeez please do NOT give electrical advise, you had me literally LOLing at you...

just wire into the breaker at 120 volts...Hysterical!!


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## KCPlumb (Oct 26, 2021)

Call an electrician, get it wired to handle 120VAC, it can be done with the existing wiring.


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## DogGod (Jul 7, 2021)

Ended up just changing the breakers out to another panel and leaving it 120v. We have a electrical division so I guess it was the cheapest route. 

Bart "today is the worst day of my life"
Homer "worst day of your life so far"


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## JimmyMac (Nov 4, 2015)

Best solution for sure!


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## DogGod (Jul 7, 2021)

Plumbers do electrical. I dont call an electrician to finish off a garbage disposal or a water heater. I convert appliances occasionally. 

Anything in a panel though I will have an electrician, especially on commercial


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