# Update to "Kinked Cable Causes"



## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

Ok so heres an update: 
The landlord called me and said he had another guy to out and he got the drain clear. I did not believe him so I called the guy. The guy did get it clear and said he used a k1500 with a 1.25 cable. He said it was tougher than normal and took longer to clear than average. 

So since I'm a man who likes to admit when he made a mistake :laughing: I'm asking you guys what you think I did wrong. Is it equipment? Was it technique? Or did I go out to far and flip it in the city main? I'm not sure but would like to learn from it. 
Thanks.


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## TomSV650 (Jun 18, 2008)

The K1500 is one of the most powerful drain machines around. Certainly better than any drum with 3/4 cable.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Sometimes it's like fishing, it's all in how you hold your mouth.

When I get one that won't budge, I change blades, add a leader, remove a leader, run a spear head, half blade, pigtail retriever, pull back ten feet, switch the machine to reverse and push the cable in again. Sometimes the crawl of the cable, meaning the side the cable is twisting towards is hitting a difficult spot, but reversing the cable direction for a bit will have the end crawl the other side, often getting by the difficult spot. 

Most times I use a short piece of 5/8" cable, about ten inches long, as a "scrub". It's not flimsy and will find it's way through a root mass. Roots can get "pot-bound" in a pipe, just like a house plant and those need a little breaking up to get things moving.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

TomSV650 said:


> The K1500 is one of the most powerful drain machines around. Certainly better than any drum with 3/4 cable.


Well, not _certainly_ better, but a dandy just the same.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Not enough cussing when you were running the line. You should be able to clear almost anything with a 3/4 or 11/16 start small work up, or start big and work small and then back up. Some of the drain clean heros on here also post on a drain cleaning forum. It's kinda slow but some good info.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Does this drain cleaning forum have an app on google play?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

For drain cleaning...equipment is 40% and knowledge is 60%. K1500 however is a bad mofo.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Drum machines are very convenient as I prefer them but IMO for a very tough blockage nothing beats 1.25" cable. I run the 1/2" innercore Eel cable.

If 1.25" cable can't get it with an experienced operator it's time to dig.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Mr Plumber said:


> Ok so heres an update:
> The landlord called me and said he had another guy to out and he got the drain clear. I did not believe him so I called the guy. *The guy did get it clear and said he used a k1500 with a 1.25 cable. He said it was tougher than normal and took longer to clear than average. *
> 
> So since I'm a man who likes to admit when he made a mistake :laughing: I'm asking you guys what you think I did wrong. Is it equipment? Was it technique? Or did I go out to far and flip it in the city main? I'm not sure but would like to learn from it.
> Thanks.


 








Monday morning quarterbacks are a dime a dozen. But here goes: sounds like it was one horrible root mass that you were not patient enough (or experienced enough-you decide) to navigate. Perhaps if you had taken smaller 'bites' with your auger head, you could have chipped away at the root mass.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

1.25" cable is tough to beat. Ive pulled out roots with the drill and eel that I never would've gotten with my K750 and 3/4 cable.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

What did the guy say was the issue with the drain? Without knowing what the blockage was everything is a best /worst guess.

Using a 5/8 cable in a 4 inch line is my obvious answer.


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## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

Said he pulled out a good size root blockage.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Pulled this through a 3inch roof vent the other day with the drill and eel


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> What did the guy say was the issue with the drain? Without knowing what the blockage was everything is a best /worst guess.
> 
> Using a 5/8 cable in a 4 inch line is my obvious answer.




He was using 3/4". I mostly run .55 in 4" mains and have yet to flip one but there have been plenty times where I knew it was a losing battle and brought in the big stuff.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

tungsten plumb said:


> View attachment 23448
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Slab home ? Why don't you guys have outside cleanouts, not code ???

At least the roof is low pitch.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Slab home. Built in the 50s. 80% of the houses here have cleanouts and our runs are usually about 50 ft long


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

AssTyme said:


> Slab home ? Why don't you guys have outside cleanouts, not code ???
> 
> At least the roof is low pitch.


Modern code yes. Sadly it does not apply to most of the " post war " houses that were build on slabs. Here if they were built after 1965 they will have a clean out in the back wall of the bathroom


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Tungsten can you post a pic of a drill and cable setup you speak of I am not clear if you are referring to a hole hawg and cable or am I mistaken?


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Qball415 said:


> Tungsten can you post a pic of a drill and cable setup you speak of I am not clear if you are referring to a hole hawg and cable or am I mistaken?












Heres the set up. I usually use a ridgid spade handle drill but didnt have it with me this day


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

Qball415 said:


> Tungsten can you post a pic of a drill and cable setup you speak of I am not clear if you are referring to a hole hawg and cable or am I mistaken?


something like this.

1.25 inch electric eel type cable. usually in 8 foot or 4 foot lengths.That uses a slower rpm drill with an adapter to spin it


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

tungsten plumb said:


> View attachment 23453
> 
> 
> Heres the set up. I usually use a ridgid spade handle drill but didnt have it with me this day


What brand drill is that?


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

affordabledrain said:


> something like this.
> 
> 1.25 inch electric eel type cable. usually in 8 foot or 4 foot lengths.That uses a slower rpm drill with an adapter to spin it


Thats the same drill i run. When that one burns out I'll get the same style makita because it spins a little faster and its the San Jose sharks colors :thumbup:


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Parson my ignorance. Do you add a few feet of cable at a time? How many feet of Cale do you run on it and how?


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

affordabledrain said:


> What brand drill is that?


Its a old black and decker professional drill. Bought it when i first started plumbing at a yard sell to drill holes in studs.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I would laugh my ass off see you guys go on a roof to pass a sewer auger up here ... 

That is the most ridiculous thing ever ...


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Qball415 said:


> Parson my ignorance. Do you add a few feet of cable at a time? How many feet of Cale do you run on it and how?


its in 8 foot sections. i ususally hand feed as much as i can and then attach it to the drill. after that its 8 ft at a time. Its not as bad as it sounds. Ive been keeping track of time and im averaging 55minutes with this set up. Next time I'm near you i'll let you try it out.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I would laugh my ass off see you guys go on a roof to pass a sewer auger up here ...
> 
> That is the most ridiculous thing ever ...


Single story houses here Aren't bad at all. You dont even need a ladder for some I was able to climb the fence on the one posted to get on the roof I didn't have my ladder :whistling2:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

tungsten plumb said:


> Single story houses here Aren't bad at all. You dont even need a ladder for some I was able to climb the fence on the one posted to get on the roof I didn't have my ladder :whistling2:


Wtf .. Climbing a fence to get on the roof ... Charge them for a clean out even if you have to cut open the wall ... Tell them their plumbing is not up to code and install a clean out ...


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I would laugh my ass off see you guys go on a roof to pass a sewer auger up here ...
> 
> That is the most ridiculous thing ever ...





Yeah not too much around here either but I guess in some areas of the country it wouldn't be that bad.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Wtf .. Climbing a fence to get on the roof ... Charge them for a clean out even if you have to cut open the wall ... Tell them their plumbing is not up to code and install a clean out ...


Most people here are cheap asses. We have quite a few "engineers"


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

tungsten plumb said:


> Most people here are cheap asses. We have quite a few "engineers"


Do you work alone or have an assistant TP.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Epox said:


> Do you work alone or have an assistant TP.


Its just me. I used to work with my ex father in law on jobs that required 2 guys but he's indisposed until april lol


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

tungsten plumb said:


> Its just me. I used to work with my ex father in law on jobs that required 2 guys but he's indisposed until april lol


Is that when they let him put for good behavior ?


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Is that when they let him put for good behavior ?


haha no good behavior needed thats his full sentence :blink:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

For whatever reasons most plumbers jump on the roof verses looking for the cleanout. Typically a co is 3-5 feet from the unit. Plumbers will spend 30 minutes setting up instead of taking a look at the layout and start searching for a co. What makes this practice bad the customer will never discover what the problem is or how to prevent if from happening again unless roots are pulled.

Raising co's are a nice little additional task when drain cleaning.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

i have never climbed on a roof to snake a drain. if there is no cleanout i will pull a toilet.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

tungsten plumb said:


> View attachment 23453
> 
> 
> Heres the set up. I usually use a ridgid spade handle drill but didnt have it with me this day


Nice clean out, did you use a Foldgers or Yuban can to cover it up ?:laughing:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Nice clean out, did you use a Foldgers or Yuban can to cover it up ?:laughing:



Naah, that's too big of a hole for a coffee can. He'd have to take a piece of thin wall pvc and cut it in half length wise to cover that thing. Either that or get a piece of single wall vent pipe. :laughing:

Don't forget the bailing wire to hold it down. :laughing:


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

dclarke said:


> i have never climbed on a roof to snake a drain. if there is no cleanout i will pull a toilet.


Same here. Or if they dont want it done that way. I will say call some one else:furious: Me ain't no roofer :laughing:


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Nice clean out, did you use a Foldgers or Yuban can to cover it up ?:laughing:


Actually I was installing a cleanout but the line was still holding water and i couldnt clear it from the roof vent so i cut the line with my grinder so i could snake the line and then install the cleanout.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

dclarke said:


> i have never climbed on a roof to snake a drain. if there is no cleanout i will pull a toilet.


Going through the roof vent is a lot less time consuming where I am than pulling the toilet. There are a lot of back to back toilets and the homes that don't have cleanouts usually have messed up flanges. I prefer not to open a can of worms i can hop on the roof and clear the drain almost as fast as if there were a ground level clean out its no biggie. I guess us Californians do things differently.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

tungsten plumb said:


> Actually I was installing a cleanout but the line was still holding water and i couldnt clear it from the roof vent so i cut the line with my grinder so i could snake the line and then install the cleanout.


 I was just messing with ya . :laughing:
I got my start cleaning drains in San Jose , and I cant count how many lines I dug up and found a " Clean Out " that was a hole in the pipe covered with half a coffee can. :yes:


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

tungsten plumb said:


> Going through the roof vent is a lot less time consuming where I am than pulling the toilet. There are a lot of back to back toilets and the homes that don't have cleanouts usually have messed up flanges. I prefer not to open a can of worms i can hop on the roof and clear the drain almost as fast as if there were a ground level clean out its no biggie. I guess us Californians do things differently.


Your leaving a lot of money on the table.
I was a clean out selling MOFO !
I would love showing up and finding a tub or shower full of pottie water.
Explain to the customer that the only excess was to pull the toilet or install a clean out.
" Mame do you really want me to bring this nasty sewer cleaning machine in to your beautiful home ? "
" If I install a clean out in the yard, we can do a much better job, and if it ever backs up again, you can remove the c/o cap and let it over flow in the yard , instead of your bath tub " .
3 out of 5 would go for the clean out.
I would not even give the option of running a vent. 

Property line c/o's were another big seller in San Jose. 
10 years ago the city would take responsibility for repair or cabling the lateral from the property line clean out to the city main, free of charge to the home owner.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

tungsten plumb said:


> Going through the roof vent is a lot less time consuming where I am than pulling the toilet. There are a lot of back to back toilets and the homes that don't have cleanouts usually have messed up flanges. I prefer not to open a can of worms i can hop on the roof and clear the drain almost as fast as if there were a ground level clean out its no biggie. I guess us Californians do things differently.


 







With a kitchen sink drain line stoppage, I prefer to cable the line from the roof rather than drag my equipment inside and work under the kitchen sink. Then when I clear the stoppage, I will know because the sink isn't holding any more water. Then I'll run lots and lots of hot water while my cable is still in the roof stack to make sure the stoppage is cleared and to clean my cable; especially if it's a cast iron drain line with black sludge. I don't like pulling a cable back under the kitchen sink with sludge that starts to get on everything under the cabinets.

One problem with clearing a stoppage from the roof is that the biggest auger head you can get into the line is determined by the size of the vent pipe on the roof. So if all there is on the roof is a 2" vent, and they have a 4" sewer, then in reality you are doing somewhat of a dis-service to the customer by getting on the roof.


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

Tommy well said:thumbsup:


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

tungsten plumb said:


> Its just me. I used to work with my ex father in law on jobs that required 2 guys but he's indisposed until april lol


Did you get the home owner to climb up the fence and jump on the roof to snap that pic of you ?:laughing:


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Your leaving a lot of money on the table.
> I was a clean out selling MOFO !
> I would love showing up and finding a tub or shower full of pottie water.
> Explain to the customer that the only excess was to pull the toilet or install a clean out.
> ...


I do probably one clean out install a week. But honestly probably 80% of the houses I come across have a cleanout. You just have to look under bushes to find them.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> With a kitchen sink drain line stoppage, I prefer to cable the line from the roof rather than drag my equipment inside and work under the kitchen sink. Then when I clear the stoppage, I will know because the sink isn't holding any more water. Then I'll run lots and lots of hot water while my cable is still in the roof stack to make sure the stoppage is cleared and to clean my cable; especially if it's a cast iron drain line with black sludge. I don't like pulling a cable back under the kitchen sink with sludge that starts to get on everything under the cabinets.
> 
> One problem with clearing a stoppage from the roof is that the biggest auger head you can get into the line is determined by the size of the vent pipe on the roof. So if all there is on the roof is a 2" vent, and they have a 4" sewer, then in reality you are doing somewhat of a dis-service to the customer by getting on the roof.


 I wouldn't clear a main through a 2" roof vent. The older homes here without cleanouts almost always have a 3" vent.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Did you get the home owner to climb up the fence and jump on the roof to snap that pic of you ?:laughing:


Actually yeah he did :laughing: I didn't ask him to he wanted to see what it was like up there so I asked him to snap a pic since he was already there :thumbup:


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Like how you posed for that! Trophy!


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Qball415 said:


> Like how you posed for that! Trophy!


Truth be told I hate heights. But you gotta suck it up and do what you gotta do. I'm glad our roofs are low pitched and the weather is good.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

tungsten plumb said:


> Going through the roof vent is a lot less time consuming where I am than pulling the toilet. There are a lot of back to back toilets and the homes that don't have cleanouts usually have messed up flanges. I prefer not to open a can of worms i can hop on the roof and clear the drain almost as fast as if there were a ground level clean out its no biggie. I guess us Californians do things differently.


I am learning very quickly that depending on where in the country you are has a lot to do with how you do your work. Everyone does things differently and I'm all for learning new ways. That's why I'm on here. Last time I snaked a drain by pulling a toilet it was my only option. No vent through the roof and no clean outs. Plus no grass anywhere to dig for installing one if I wanted

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Plumbing Zone


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I had one earlier this week. Roto Rooter worked on it for several hours and could not get thru it. I didn't even try to run a cable thru it. We replaced 26 feet of 6 inch clay tile and installed a clean out for jetting. The root ball was over 8 feet long and completely filled the line. I'll post some pictures later


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> *Wtf* *.. Climbing a fence to get on the roof ...* Charge them for a clean out even if you have to cut open the wall ... Tell them their plumbing is not up to code and install a clean out ...


 






I usually get a running start and jump up onto the roof, then the home owner passes my equipment up to me.......:laughing:


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

When i worked for the company i started out with. It was common to get on the single story homes and run the main through a vent. Today..il put in a clean out before i even think of getting on a roof to do a main line. Too old to be hauling all that equipment up on a roof. I will still do a kitchen or clothes washer line from the roof. But only if it looks like i will make a mess in the house.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

We do to on the roof when it seems to be the only or best option but that is seldom since a lot of roofs here are 8-12 to 12-12 pitch. 

I hate roofs even though in a former life I was in construction.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

victoryplbaz said:


> When i worked for the company i started out with. It was common to get on the single story homes and run the main through a vent. Today..il put in a clean out before i even think of getting on a roof to do a main line. Too old to be hauling all that equipment up on a roof. I will still do a kitchen or clothes washer line from the roof. But only if it looks like i will make a mess in the house.


That was one of the main reasons I went with a sectional machine. Takes an extra trip up the ladder but makes roof work doable.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

For the past year OSHA has imposed tight rules for climbing on a roof and for that matter a ladder. Anything over 6 foot if I remember. Safety harnesses and rope tie offs.

I am not a fan of roof vents anyway as you have no idea what caused he stoppage, you just push everything down the drain. Unless it is roots, sometimes you have too. Kitchen sink drains or laundry drain lines. Bathroom groups or whole house you never should go through a roof vent. If you do it is only to locate the cleanout.


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

In my youth I climbed roofs often but now with the OSHA rules I am hesitant. 
I like the 1.25 sectional idea with a drill though I've never tried it, maybe I will.
Now-a-days, _I'll s_pend a few minuites to find a cleanout, or put forth extra effort to sell one.
I also charge a lot more to climb the roof and explain it will cost more and the job will not be as thurough as it could be if I could only use a clean out.


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## TomSV650 (Jun 18, 2008)

I used to take a Spartan 300 machine with 75' of 5/8 with a feeder on the roof. That was not fun!  Now I only use the K-60, and my back thanks me for it. :thumbup: If you do a lot of roof mainlines, look in to the K-60.


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## deathproof75 (Feb 26, 2013)

I own a 1.25" 150 foot sectoinal 1500 and ive put local plumbing companys in the tucson area to shame with it when they couldnt break the stoppage. and i always get the reaction from customers "now thats a big snake" so far the best investment i made in my new developing company.


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

By far the best investment for you here would be an introduction in the appropriate intro section.


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