# Pipe Bursting and sewer replacements



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

has anyone here pipe bursted ductile water main?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Yes. Gerry at Pipe Genie has.

I'm not sure his shark fin actually cut it though. I think he cut it off in pieces as it entered the pit. That's best I can remember from a conversation a couple of years ago.

What kind of equipment are you using and what's the water line project?


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

We are using one of our 100 ton chain units. We build most of our own machines. 8" ductile upsized to 10". we have bursted pretty much everything else but this is new territory! 465ft. burst 3 hydrants which we will take out before bursting.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I'd love to see some pics of your equipment. 3/4" chain?

At that length and size, cutting it in the pull pit as it arrives is probably not an option.

I saw a head once that had four rows of pipe cutter wheels instead of fins. Their were quite a few wheels per row and of course they fanned out in the shape of the bursting cone. the further into the old pipe the head went, the deeper they cut the old pipe. By the time the head completely entered the pipe, it was completely cut into four strips. I know it would be effective for steel pipe. Maybe ductile too. I am not too familiar with ductile.

I'll look at some of my trenchless books. It may have been in in one of those.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Thank You. appreciated. Give me a few minutes and i will post some pics of some of our units. We use 5/8 boat anchor chain on the 100 tn. machine and 1 1/2" on the bigger rigs. This would be the first burst of this kind in this area I am just worried about pulling all the pipe into the pit. That can be disasterous!


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

I posted a few pics for you of our machine. Wehave been pretty lucky with it over the years. No frills not fancy but a good reliable unit.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

bulldozer said:


> ...I am just worried about pulling all the pipe into the pit. That can be disasterous!


Agreed. I don't like it on small pipe. I can't imagine the danger of having all that com into the pull pit.

I found what I was looking for. It's made by Grundoburst.

http://trenchlessinternational.com/news/cutting_edge_pipe_bursting/000693/

They have a couple of different styles. The first two picks shows the one for larger pipe. I believe it is available for up to 32". I'm sure the guys in that second picture have never been anywhere near that head in operation.:laughing: 

The single cutter style (next post) would probably work for smaller stuff under 8".


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Here's the single cutter style for smaller pipe. This might be better suited to cutting the 8" ductile.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

bulldozer said:


> I posted a few pics for you of our machine. Wehave been pretty lucky with it over the years. No frills not fancy but a good reliable unit.


That's the first horizontal chain unit I've seen. AWESOME!

I'm assuming there are jaws in the bar between the cylinders that grasps the chain. Being vertical, our jaws fall down to hold the chain while the pistons retreat. What holds your chain in place on the return cycle? Manual lever or latch of some sort?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

bulldozer said:


> ...We use 5/8 boat anchor chain on the 100 tn. machine and 1 1/2" on the bigger rigs....


5/8" grade 100 is what we use. My 40 ton seem so tiny now.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Who's bursting head do you use. I haven't had too much luck finding options for chain style pullers.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

On our smaller machines its manual. When we built the first unit it was a prototype and we kept it simple to operate. As we got better at building them we installed a hydraulic grab to tension the chain on the return. Our bigger unit is remote control outside of the hole with a 68 horse power unit. she can easily pull 100 to 150 an hour and still have power left over. We have pulled up to 24" with it. Thank you for the photos of the pre splitters. I have had a hard time finding someone to sell us one because we don't have a manufactured unit.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Is that a Tric head in your photos?

I guess it's good you're in Cleveland and I'm in Oklahoma. MizBiz says I am forbidden to speak with you any more if it means I'm going to try to build something else. :laughing:

Ahhh, the relentless pursuit of a better mouse trap continues.:thumbup:


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

believe it or not Gorlitz sewer and drain has the best heads at the best price. We usually have our mechanic put some hard facing on them but we have had really good luck and service with them. My buddy the PIPE SHARK just switched over to them.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Tell her don't worry. I network with a few bursters across the country. As a matter of fact a guy out of Utah is starting a Facebook sort of thing with bursting contractors. Suppose to debut at the cleaner show in February. A few of us already share equipment, heads fusers etc. Its a small community.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I don't think anyone does that around here !!! I'd love to be the one to get into it one day!! Cool stuff!!!


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

I think its one of the top things ive done in my sewer repair career. I still get the first time jitters on every pull! lol.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

bulldozer said:


> ...I still get the first time jitters on every pull! lol.


I thought that only happened to me.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

good thread! Yep I get that nervous feeling every job! When the bursting head makes it to the end I smile!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Have you guys ever had one break?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Indie said:


> Have you guys ever had one break?


:yes:


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Indie said:


> Have you guys ever had one break?


I hope they all break! The pipe is supposed to break out of the way of the sewer:laughing:


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

I have had a weld break and then it gets fun depending on where it happened. Once my head guy was at the entry pit and I was at the pulling pit and after about 20 feet he yelled that the pipe had stopped moving! he said "well i guess one of your welds broke" Then I looked down by him and said " no you moron you didn't put the bursting cone on" It was amazing it had burst the concrete pipe for 20 feet with just the hdpe!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

We have had to fuse a broken weld in the entry pit. That really creates a vacuum.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> We have had to fuse a broken weld in the entry pit. That really creates a vacuum.


Us also, crampt conditions but you have to do what you have to do. Once I was about 15 feet from the end when the pulling cap broke, so I finished the pull, then added the amount of pipe we needed on the back end then ran the cable back thru and put a cap on the end so it pulled the hdpe in from the end. Got lucky and the hole had remained open and we finished the pull.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

...


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

This stuff makes me jealous. 

I would love if time was right to tag along on a big pull. Not just watch but to jump in the hole and help with all the aspects.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I'd be happy to have you along for the ride.

We have tried to have a couple of PZ members on a pipe burst but the schedules always seem to clash.

Too bad you are not closer to Oklahoma.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Cuda said:


> I have had a weld break and then it gets fun depending on where it happened. Once my head guy was at the entry pit and I was at the pulling pit and after about 20 feet he yelled that the pipe had stopped moving! he said "well i guess one of your welds broke" Then I looked down by him and said " no you moron you didn't put the bursting cone on" It was amazing it had burst the concrete pipe for 20 feet with just the hdpe!


Ours snapped off going into a 14' entry pit that was very short and narrow. The weld broke just as it made the bend at the bottom of the pit. We were within 10' of being finished.

We pulled the head all the way to the machine, took off the head, and fused on a 10' piece. Then we drove it back downstream with a 12lb sledge. Like Cuda, we were very lucky that the hole stayed open to allow driving the pipe back in.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

We've had th break. I have a friend in Philly who is bursting 8 inch 18 ft. Deep this week. They pulled 350 ft. And the machine stopped pulling. The head is lodged in a 2 ft. Thick concrete cradle in the middle of a intersection. Bad. Real bad.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

bulldozer said:


> We've had th break. I have a friend in Philly who is bursting 8 inch 18 ft. Deep this week. They pulled 350 ft. And the machine stopped pulling. The head is lodged in a 2 ft. Thick concrete cradle in the middle of a intersection. Bad. Real bad.


That's painful to think about.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

bulldozer said:


> We've had th break. I have a friend in Philly who is bursting 8 inch 18 ft. Deep this week. They pulled 350 ft. And the machine stopped pulling. The head is lodged in a 2 ft. Thick concrete cradle in the middle of a intersection. Bad. Real bad.


Of course it's the middle of the intersection it can't be some place easy to get to. Feel sorry for your buddy man. Hey I looked on facebook and could not find the pipe bursting group?


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Were putting it together. Suppose to be done by the pumper show. We all meet up and swap war stories. Come join us if you can.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Love to but this is our busy time, rain brings work.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Man I had a weld break yesterday, been under 30 and I didn't heat the pipe up long enough I guess, it broke as it was bending into the sewer so it was visable but down 7 feet and the hole was 3x3 foot, I had to go down there with the small fusion unit, then took the air knife and made a hole 5 feet back so I could fuse 5 foot sections of pipe on to complete the job. Lucky I only needed 15 feet to complete but still. Made me burst today friday another section to complete the job on time. Broke two of my bursting rules: Don't start a burst after 12:00 and don't burst important jobs on Fridays lol


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Them last two rules apply to a lot of things


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