# Cost of materials



## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm starting to realize that the best way to plumb a system is often heavily influenced by the cost of materials, even when it's something minor. I'd like to get an idea of what materials cost, ie pipe, fittings, hangers, etc, so I can take these things into consideration when making decisions in detailing a job. Does anybody know where I can get prices for these items? The Tyler web site for example shows something ridiculous like $90 for a stick of 2" cast iron pipe and $20 for a 2" combi... I don't imagine these are accurate prices, they seem outrageous. If I could find more accurate pricing, it will help me out a lot.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Have you asked your supplier?


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm going to disagree. 

Most jobs it would seem are influenced by what is either specified, or within the preferences of the contractor.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

If you don't check material costs BEFORE bidding, sometimes you're in for a rude awakening when you're standing at the supply house counter...

Some smaller jobs I can shoot from the hip; I have a good idea what the material will cost. But other jobs with prints, I need to carefully look at the cost of material, labor, permits, and so forth.


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

My job is a hospital, already firm bidded and awarded, so at this point my decisions are basically minor routing choices, which may involve an extra fitting but less pipe, or something similar that has multiple variables. Also weighing the pros and cons of doing something a preferred way vs the lesser cost of an alternative. The cheapest may not always be the best way, but I'd need to have a ballpark idea of the cost difference to make my decision. I'm just a runt in my office, so I've never dealt with the supplier and such.


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

Sorry for the double post


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

I was under the assumption that for a hospital, they told you what you use. As in what material. I can't see them specing cast and you doing PVC

Edit: just reread it. You have basic routing choices, I would check with the gc before going ahead and routing it a different way, its going to cost alot more if you need to move it.


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

marc76075 said:


> I would check with the gc before going ahead and routing it a different way, its going to cost alot more if you need to move it.


The plans provided are a basic diagramatical layout, and there are a hundred different ways/variations to achieve the same result, and still be following the general layout given in the plans. I could give many many examples, but that's not really important. I basically just want to get familiar with material costs to help with minor decisions that could add up to a considerable amount of money. Thanks for the replies so far, good info here.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

If you are in the office, why on earth do you not have access to pricing?

If it is your decision to change routing you need access to be able to anylize the cost.

Something doesnt add up here

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

ILPlumber said:


> If you are in the office, why on earth do you not have access to pricing?


I do menial odds and ends, and I'm given tasks one at a time. I'm not in charge of any big picture stuff. I could ask someone in the office where I can get pricing info, but I was trying to avoid that because they might feel like I'm overstepping my boundaries. But I need to learn this stuff so I don't have to go to my foreman and say "should I do it like this, like this, or like this" for every occasion. Not to mention, eventually in a few years I WILL be doing big picture stuff, so why not learn it now.I will just ask them where to get the information and tell them I will review it on my own time.


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## luv2plumb (Apr 30, 2010)

SCADman said:


> I'm starting to realize that the best way to plumb a system is often heavily influenced by the cost of materials, even when it's something minor. I'd like to get an idea of what materials cost, ie pipe, fittings, hangers, etc, so I can take these things into consideration when making decisions in detailing a job. Does anybody know where I can get prices for these items? *The Tyler web site for example shows something ridiculous like $90 for a stick of 2" cast iron pipe and $20 for a 2" combi...* I don't imagine these are accurate prices, they seem outrageous. If I could find more accurate pricing, it will help me out a lot.


That would be list pricing....you need to find out what suppliers your company uses and who the salesman are. Call the suppliers and ask them what your multiplier is for or give them your material list and have them price it.


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

SCADman said:


> My job is a hospital, already firm bidded and awarded, so at this point my decisions are basically minor routing choices, which may involve an extra fitting but less pipe, or something similar that has multiple variables. Also weighing the pros and cons of doing something a preferred way vs the lesser cost of an alternative. The cheapest may not always be the best way, but I'd need to have a ballpark idea of the cost difference to make my decision. I'm just a runt in my office, so I've never dealt with the supplier and such.


Hand the prints to your wholesaler and they will cost all of it for you. That is if they are worth their salt. A hospital, and your only costing now??


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

get fastpipe. costs about 6 or 7 grand, but has all the the prices factored in, even hangers.


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

Most of you are totally over-thinking this. I'm not a contractor. I did not bid this job. I'm not making high dollar decisions. I simply work for a contractor and make minor detail changes which I already know are acceptable to do so. For the most part I'm being told what to do. Keeping material costs in mind might allow me to save the company 20 dollars at a time. But it adds up. I talked to the purchasing agent in my office and he's gonna give me some prices and multipliers tomorrow. It's more for my own knowledge than anything else, and learning why we do things the way we do.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

SCADman said:


> Most of you are totally over-thinking this. I'm not a contractor. I did not bid this job. I'm not making high dollar decisions. I simply work for a contractor and make minor detail changes which I already know are acceptable to do so. For the most part I'm being told what to do. Keeping material costs in mind might allow me to save the company 20 dollars at a time. But it adds up. I talked to the purchasing agent in my office and he's gonna give me some prices and multipliers tomorrow. It's more for my own knowledge than anything else, and learning why we do things the way we do.



Why didn't you specify this info in your original post? Guys are trying to advise, not over-think this, because they are trying to look out for you. Part of the learning curve you are on involves COMMUNICATING efficiently. Bravo for your desire to learn more though.


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

Sorry If I wasn't clear enough in my original post, but i felt like I cleared it up in my follow-up posts. I reread them and I'm not sure where the confussion was. Anyhow, I got multipliers for all of our material, so I'm gonna begin to get familiar with the pricing. Thanks for the tips, I know everyone was trying their best to help.


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

Knock yourself out. A little trial and error is good for us all.:thumbsup:


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

It's hard to believe that hospital "prints" are not signed engineered drawings. A hospital is not a residential single family dwelling.

I know some of you commercial new con guys might jump on me for this but ... doesn't the commercial world work like this; you bid with razor thin margins to win the bid, then you simply follow the yellow brick road (engineered drawings), then when all the screw ups with the drawings begin to show up (after the pipe is installed), you nail them with the change orders so you can make a decent profit?

Maybe I'm wrong but during my limited time in comm new con it seemed nobody wanted to hear about potential problems _before_ the pipe was run. The engineers didn't want to hear anything because after all, I was lowly plumbing scum and what could I possibly know about anything, and the boss didn't want to know because if we corrected a problem before it happened then he would lose the change order.

Never heard of any major commercial work being done without proper, signed, drawings.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> It's hard to believe that hospital "prints" are not signed engineered drawings. A hospital is not a residential single family dwelling.
> 
> I know some of you commercial new con guys might jump on me for this but ... doesn't the commercial world work like this; you bid with razor thin margins to win the bid, then you simply follow the yellow brick road (engineered drawings), then when all the screw ups with the drawings begin to show up (after the pipe is installed), you nail them with the change orders so you can make a decent profit?
> 
> ...


Change orders are a big part of it... Here anyways.

They bid on what is drawn, it's up to the engineer to get it all on paper to cover his arse. Usually they are going to put a clause in their drawings that states that there may be different piping arrangements needed to avoid other trades and it's up to the mechanical contractor to "verify" before bidding. (just an example on a hospital addition we are on right now)

I'll give a good example of how it rolls sometimes...

We had a master set of prints for this ER we are building. We started the rough December of last year. From the word go this job has been pushed hard. In February of this year we finished up on the top out, second rough. We didn't have a cabinet detail for a ton of exam sinks. If you scaled off of the engineers prints it was suppose to be a 36" cabinet space for a sink. So we roughed in the rough at 18" off side wall, which would put you centered up in the cabinet space..

Finished top out and rock went up after inspection, the cabinet guys arrived at the job with cabinets and a fresh set of cabinet details that came out after the walls went up. 

The details called for two 18" cabinets push together and an offset sink bay in the left hand 18" bay. So our drain and water work was dead arse in the center of the joints in the cabinet.

You go by our prints it's dead on, you go by the prints that came out AFTER the walls went up it's wrong, the only way it's getting fixed is with a change order to move the piping, that's there fook up not ours... It's typical on most jobs that we do.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

You guys are slipping. I can't believe that nobody asked the important question. "Do you have a plumbing license?" :whistling2:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> You guys are slipping. I can't believe that nobody asked the important question. "Do you have a plumbing license?" :whistling2:


Sumpin Fishy


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

Plumberman is right, a lot of changes are made for coordination. Engineers don't dimension the drawings, tell us what fittings to use, etc, and they don't make sure that everything will fit smoothly exactly the way that each trade's plans are drawn up. The engineered plans are pretty basic blue prints for what we are to install and it's up to US to make sure it works. There are a hundred decisions to make. Some are obvious, and some you have variables to weigh out. If you have ever worked commercial new construction and gotten plans that were fully coordinated, detailed and dimensioned, it's because YOUR SHOP did all that in the office. I am one of those guys (still in the learning process). The engineer will even revised his drawings somewhat based on changes that we have made before the final stamp of approval. A field worker might assume that it came from the engineer that way, but a foreman would know better. I'm am really surprised that none of you experienced plumbers in the Zone know what I'm talking about and can back me up here.

And for the record, NO, I am not a licensed plumber. But as a state-certified Journeyman, I am most certainly a PROFESSIONAL plumber, rightly posting in the professional plumber's forum. My understanding is that it takes about 10 years of experience to really qualify to get licensed. I'm half way there. I don't know any plumbers, even at the General Foreman level, who are licensed unless they intended on starting up their own business.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SCADman said:


> Plumberman is right, a lot of changes are made for coordination. Engineers don't dimension the drawings, tell us what fittings to use, etc, and they don't make sure that everything will fit smoothly exactly the way that each trade's plans are drawn up. The engineered plans are pretty basic blue prints for what we are to install and it's up to US to make sure it works. There are a hundred decisions to make. Some are obvious, and some you have variables to weigh out. If you have ever worked commercial new construction and gotten plans that were fully coordinated, detailed and dimensioned, it's because YOUR SHOP did all that in the office. I am one of those guys (still in the learning process). The engineer will even revised his drawings somewhat based on changes that we have made before the final stamp of approval. A field worker might assume that it came from the engineer that way, but a foreman would know better. I'm am really surprised that none of you experienced plumbers in the Zone know what I'm talking about and can back me up here.
> 
> And for the record, NO, I am not a licensed plumber. But as a state-certified Journeyman, I am most certainly a PROFESSIONAL plumber, rightly posting in the professional plumber's forum. My understanding is that it takes about 10 years of experience to really qualify to get licensed. I'm half way there. I don't know any plumbers, even at the General Foreman level, who are licensed unless they intended on starting up their own business.


 




I'm going to have to disagree with you there partner. Last big job (commercial- hospital) I worked on with my union, the prints showed not only pipes with sizes, but we had another print that showed us the fitting that were to be used (combos, wyes, 1/8th bends, etc.) and also there was an elevation print which showed the elevations of everything in the bldg. The elevation of the mechanical duct work, gas lines, both natural gas and medical gas, water, waste, storm, etc. That was the first time I had ever worked on a job where the bldg. was virtually piped out on the prints. All us journeymen had to do was drill, hang threaded rod and then hang the pipe at the pre-determined heights.


PS: Oh yeah, one more thing, the cast iron pipe and fittings sent out to the job were pre-fabbed and numbered! Peices of pipe were cut and fittings were numbered and then we matched it up to what the print showed. Sure we would deviate a little, like perhaps make a cut here or there, but generally speaking all the pipe and fittings went up in the air the way it was drawn up on the prints.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Our piping is drawn in, sized and all but there aren't any elevations on the prints for piping, here anyways.

DWV is drawn in the way they want it ran but if you have to deviate the piping arrangement for other trades, then we draw it in on the AS BUILTS.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

You guys are all correct. Here, piping schematics are shown with nominal pipe size and usually a coordinate reference to a grid line. For the large equipment there are usually finite elevations that MUST be adhered to, so height wise, SOME of the piping has to be dead on. This may be due to large ductwork and low ceiling clearances, or some other interference issue.

That being said. I, as an installer, find errors, omissions, code violations and instances of interference with other trades' media every day.

I don't bother my foreman with "should I run this 1/2" line to the left, or to the right of that 3/4" line that I've run into?". Big changes, always. Small changes, almost never.

DWV, OTOH, is a whole other subject. I have a drainage branch to run, I look at the print to find out where to terminate, not how to run the branch there. 

An engineer does not a plumber make.

So there... I'm tired now! :laughing:


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I'm going to have to disagree with you there partner. .......... Oh yeah, one more thing, the cast iron pipe and fittings sent out to the job were pre-fabbed and numbered! Peices of pipe were cut and fittings were numbered and then we matched it up to what the print showed. Sure we would deviate a little, like perhaps make a cut here or there, but generally speaking all the pipe and fittings went up in the air the way it was drawn up on the prints.


Thank you, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. These are shop drawings, not contract (engineered) drawings. The engineers did not make these, they were detailed by plumbers in your company's office (called "detailers"), drawn in 3D AutoCAD (by the plumber) and "spool drawings" were produced for prefabrication. This is exactly what I meant when I said "a field worker might assume that it came from the engineer that way," so you are proving my point. Anyways, that's what I do, I'm a detailer in the office. And on that hospital that you worked on, I guarantee that the detailers made a ton of changes from what the original contract drawings dictated. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that a lot of us are never aware of. My company has been directly involved with the design process of this job for over a year, and we have another year of work before the construction even breaks ground.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SCADman said:


> And for the record, NO, I am not a licensed plumber. But as a state-certified Journeyman, I am most certainly a PROFESSIONAL plumber, rightly posting in the professional plumber's forum. My understanding is that it takes about 10 years of experience to really qualify to get licensed. I'm half way there. I don't know any plumbers, even at the General Foreman level, who are licensed unless they intended on starting up their own business.


Ahhh California... That Splains it!


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