# Stubborn Delta T/S valve



## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Not the first time I've run into this, the old Delta valve won't come apart so that I can rebuild it. Soaked it in PB several times, no luck. I know how easy those cheap copper tubes twist off.
I advised the tenant that the valve would have to be replaced, & he has to talk to his landlord.Anybody found any solvent stronger than PB to break it loose?


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Did you use heat and rubber mallet?


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

No heat, but I rapped it several times with the padded channel lock handles.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Cut the nut off very carefully with a dremel tool or roto-zip, you shouldn't have to replace the valve


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Try the heat dude. Saved me a few times. Use back up wrench and your golden.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

KCplumber said:


> Cut the nut off very carefully with a dremel tool or roto-zip, you shouldn't have to replace the valve


Haven't needed to do this yet. Good idea. Delta will send replacement?


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm sure they would, I don't know. I rob old ones out of my scrap box, or keep a few new ones I buy on the truck. There about 10 or 12 bucks. I have to cut them off alot


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

You can cut it off with a mini hack in 5 minutes or less. Delta will not ship you a warranty repair. They are not life time warranty valves.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> You can cut it off with a mini hack in 5 minutes or less. Delta will not ship you a warranty repair. They are not life time warranty valves.




Nailed it^^^

I keep a handful of bonnet nuts just for this. Cut it off, install new cartridge, install new nut.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I'll go back today & try & cut the nut off. This is the old style, no cartridge, diverter stem. Worst design on a valve.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

smoldrn said:


> I'll go back today & try & cut the nut off. This is the old style, no cartridge, diverter stem. Worst design on a valve.


I would attempt the heat before the hacksaw.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

smoldrn said:


> I'll go back today & try & cut the nut off. This is the old style, no cartridge, diverter stem. Worst design on a valve.


I disagree. It may be one of the best plumbing designs ever (second only of course to Orangeburg pipe).

My only question is why have you not sent Delta a thank you card yet?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

smoldrn said:


> Not the first time I've run into this, the old Delta valve won't come apart so that I can rebuild it. Soaked it in PB several times, no luck. I know how easy those cheap copper tubes twist off.
> I advised the tenant that the valve would have to be replaced, & he has to talk to his landlord.Anybody found any solvent stronger than PB to break it loose?


Why don't ya just replace the Delta pos with Moentrol?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Why don't ya just replace the Delta pos with Moentrol?


I agree. That is the best way to guarantee work for the future. :jester:

I send flowers and chocolates to the Moen R&D team every month.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> I agree. That is the best way to guarantee work for the future. :jester:
> 
> I send flowers and chocolates to the Moen R&D team every month.


I said Moentrol... not the pos Moen PosiTemp..


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

One problem is to get a grip on the nut also eggs the nut and works against you the tighter you grip the less likely it will be that it comes loose. I fought one for an hour rapping it and using strap wrench, locks, in the end I tried it with my bare hand right before giving up, and comes right off like some one was playing a joke on me.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

The trick is to grip it at the edge of the nut and use two pair of channel locks..If you grip it over the threads it will be harder to remove.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> The trick is to grip it at the edge of the nut and use two pair of channel locks..If you grip it over the threads it will be harder to remove.


2 pair of channel locks....hmmmm...can you explain?


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

One on the edge of the nut and one on the valve so it doesn't move.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> One on the edge of the nut and one on the valve so it doesn't move.


The OP's valve is the 600 series with copper tubes connecting the valve body and the cartridge holder. The chrome bonnet is loose over the valve body and that makes it almost impossible to get a backup.

The newer 10000 series rough-in valves have the chrome bonnet slide over the valve after the nut is on so you can get to the whole thing.

The best thing for the 600 series is to replace it.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

10-4. I'm not up to speed on the different series numbers :jester:

In that case your right. Time for a new faucet.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

un1ted-we-plumb said:


> 10-4. I'm not up to speed on the different series numbers :jester:
> 
> In that case your right. Time for a new faucet.


moentrol


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Dont know if its true..But one old old old timer said if he twised the copper lines. he used to unsweat the valve and replace the copper lines on the valve..


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

victoryplbaz said:


> Dont know if its true..But one old old old timer said if he twised the copper lines. he used to unsweat the valve and replace the copper lines on the valve..


There was a how to on here about that.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Old 622 Delta tub n shower valves are very common here. I think I had one recently where the bonnet nut actually came off easily. I just cut them off as part of a normal repair. I also get homeowners about 2 or 3 times a month calling on the weekend
after twisting the copper tubes between the valve body.Also Delta 522 lav faucets the bonnet freezes up.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I wish this were a heavily delta area if your getting that many calls about them. We have Delta but not a whole lot of it.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

When I started in plumbing MOEN was king. Delta took over in the 80's and is all over the place.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

These parts Moen is still king. Kohler has a piece. Nearly everything else is from Lowes.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Delta is king here they were built 50 miles up the road in greensburg Indiana until everything went to china! I cut em off when I have to


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Got it. Used some heat, more PB, and the Dremel, finally broke loose. Thanks for all the tips. I don't run in to many of those valves around here.
I've always said that one of the keys to success was OPE - other people's experience.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

smoldrn said:


> Got it. Used some heat, more PB, and the Dremel, finally broke loose. Thanks for all the tips. I don't run in to many of those valves around here.
> *I've always said that one of the keys to success was OPE - other people's experience*.


Your close, but its actually OPM- Other peoples money ! lol


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

OPM is one of the other keys....


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I am not sure y u would even attempt to remove without heat. I have co. Policy that my guys are to heat these valves before wrenching.
. a little heat and u can take it of with a leather glove.
I refrain from using wd,pb or any other such spray especially on potable water. I have not found a need for these other than the occasional tool lubrication.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

smoldrn said:


> Not the first time I've run into this, the old Delta valve won't come apart so that I can rebuild it. Soaked it in PB several times, no luck. I know how easy those cheap copper tubes twist off.
> I advised the tenant that the valve would have to be replaced, & he has to talk to his landlord.Anybody found any solvent stronger than PB to break it loose?


 
You're dealing with a 600 series delta. Sometimes you have to clamp down on the chrome sleeve (which will damage the sleeve) to hold the body. Clamp from the 4 positions of the clock, 12,9,6,3 when you attempt to remove. Free All is the best lubricant used on these that have a chance to reach the calcium to remove the bonnet nut.



smoldrn said:


> I'll go back today & try & cut the nut off. This is the old style, no cartridge, diverter stem. Worst design on a valve.


It all started with the installing plumber that did not grease that bonnet nut. If they would of done that, 99% of these bonnet nuts would disassemble. 



Fullmetal Frank said:


> One problem is to get a grip on the nut also eggs the nut and works against you the tighter you grip the less likely it will be that it comes loose. I fought one for an hour rapping it and using strap wrench, locks, in the end I tried it with my bare hand right before giving up, and comes right off like some one was playing a joke on me.


That's the trick; you have to keep gripping to bring the oval back out. If your jaws catch the 12 and 6, you better be grabbing 'next' at the 9 and 3. 



UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> The trick is to grip it at the edge of the nut and use two pair of channel locks..If you grip it over the threads it will be harder to remove.


You know how it rolls, to make that statement.




victoryplbaz said:


> Dont know if its true..But one old old old timer said if he twised the copper lines. he used to unsweat the valve and replace the copper lines on the valve..



I've done them, got a few sitting out there in use today. It's not easy but you buy a 12" piece of straight 3/8" soft copper. Make 3 identical cuts, flux and clean the existing ports on both. I had to to this in the wall, which is extremely tough in a 4-3/4" opening. 

The trick is to slightly oval the copper tubes into the valve head first, then carefully get the three back into the valve body that's sweat into the water piping. 

You're then soldering by feel, not sight inside the wall. As long as it's all clean, rest your solder on the tubes till you feel the corner where brass/copper meet, solder will drop and you'll know capillary action took place. And do NOT burn any surfaces black. It'll never solder correctly at that point.



deerslayer said:


> Delta is king here they were built 50 miles up the road in greensburg Indiana until everything went to china! I cut em off when I have to


Been to the plant, years ago, watched how they took 2" brass billet rods 23' long and 3 seconds later in a 24 ton machine from germany, port the valve heads, everything you see on the finish, instantly. 

Those days are gone... that equipment is probably a dust collector, and it served a great purpose for many decades.


Accountability takes place upon the first install of any plumbing fixture. If you set it up for the next guy to struggle, no one to blame but the profession as a whole. 

I'm guilty of my own statements: last sunday night a customer of mine who I plumbed his house for, 21 years ago put a wrench on his 600 series delta and snapped it right off in the wall. He came over for 1/2" fips to sweat the new R10000 valve body in. 

*For 21 solid years that faucet was never repaired, rebuilt.* 

City water, not private. 

I can openly say I know for a fact I did not grease that nut. No way. But if I did, that would of been a simple repair for him and not a replacement. 

You can now see why I gave him the copper fittings, some new flux for his trip back to get his water turned back on. :yes:

He's a mechanic; I know he doesn't put anti-seize lubricant on every bolt and nut he reassembles... guarantee it.


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