# Electric Tankless



## JonnyReb (Oct 10, 2008)

I just installed my first electric tankless and wanted to give my positive recommendation to anyone considering quoting one. I was very unsure of the capability of the unit for a 3 fixture poolhouse, but saw no other good option as gas wasn't available and there was no good location for a tank heater. I purchased the Seisco brand unit for about $550.00 and quickly had it installed after sheetrock went up. Our electrician wired 220 to it and we tested it out. Turns out that it will supply about 3 gallons a minute of 110 degree water(77 outside). Was plenty for the 2 lavs and a shower. It's only about the size of a shoebox and weighed almost nothing. It has 2 tank type elements powering it and they are supposedly easy to replace. I was fairly impressed with the unit and can't help but think it would be a good reccomendation for all the greenies as well of those with limited space or small hot water demand J.R.


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Where's the T&P?


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## JonnyReb (Oct 10, 2008)

We checked all specs and received a final on our inspection. No T&P required...J.R.


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Along with a T&P, I usually put service ports on, this will need to be and should be serviced regularly. I end up coming in after the fact and installing additional isolation valves and hose bibbs, or the ready made ones, to complete a service on them. All tankless seem to need far more maintenance than traditional heaters. I guess thats from the higher temps and no reseviour to hold sediment. 
Is this heater on a softner?


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

did the plastic nipples fo the h/c worry you, freaked me out at first.


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

I don't know if I would be so quick to give a positive recommendation on quoting/installing something if this is your first time. Sure maybe they may be easy to install, mount, etc, but my biggest concern would be how durable they are, and if a problem arises, how well do they support their product from a warranty standpoint? Also what type of maintenance do they require, and did you advise the home-owner on said maintenance and/or maybe get them on a regular service plan to look at it every 1-2 years, etc. (hence why some of the other guys mentioned service ports and the like - works in your favour if you can initiate some kind of service contract).


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## JonnyReb (Oct 10, 2008)

Scott K said:


> I don't know if I would be so quick to give a positive recommendation on quoting/installing something if this is your first time. Sure maybe they may be easy to install, mount, etc, but my biggest concern would be how durable they are, and if a problem arises, how well do they support their product from a warranty standpoint? Also what type of maintenance do they require, and did you advise the home-owner on said maintenance and/or maybe get them on a regular service plan to look at it every 1-2 years, etc. (hence why some of the other guys mentioned service ports and the like - works in your favour if you can initiate some kind of service contract).


 
I guess what i was quick to recommend, was a spacesaving heater that was inexpensive and did the job. If i have to wait 3 years to post, so as to do a durability test, i will forget and it won't happen. I have installed quite a few tankless gas units, i'm not fond of them from a cost or manufacturers advertising standpoint(i think they are a bit overrated), this little electric did the job and stayed within the quote given to the GC.

The GC had built the poolhouse without mentioning to the homeowner that there would be an electric tanktype water heater sitting in a storage area. The homeowner had envisioned a work shop/ "place to hide" and the size of the 30g put him in search of options. Ferguson had the unit in stock. The poolhouse had already been roughed in so location wasn't optional.

In the last 15 years i've only run across one of these heaters installed(not by me)and saw it as an oddball, to say the least. Out of need we installed it and it impressed me that it worked at all. I guess my recommendation is based almost solely on that but keep in mind that they do work and in particular instances may be the perfect solution to a space related problem. That they cost nothing to operate when not in use adds to the likelyhood that we will see more of these in the future. I checked the search function and found no other posts about them so i thought i would throw it out there.

YES, the plastic threaded parts always scare me but i put my faith in a minimal amount of teflon tape and a LOT of pipe dope. So far so good :thumbsup:

I guess i should have some form of service agreement worked up but in the last 15 years i've found that those who used me in the past call me when they need me. If they don't i've forgotten about them anyways so my feelings arn't hurt. We stay busy and so far it's not having to return to something we installed in the past. Well..the exception would be gas logs. We see the same sets over and over. If somebody with business sense had my company, they would have me retired and living on an island probably. I've not done things in the most profitable ways. But i have a good name...J.R.


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## Pipemaster (Jul 29, 2008)

*Looks more like a point of use*

*what happens when someone tales a shower and runs the laundry ?*

*there goes your 3 gallons*

*albiet there are some larger electric tankless's available that will suffice an entire house at greater flow rates*

*what did that piece of plastic crap cost ya ? *


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## Pipemaster (Jul 29, 2008)

*my bad didnt see this*

" I purchased the Seisco brand unit for about $550.00 "


*you know i can purchase a rheem commercial that does 7 gpm for around $780.00, enough to do the entire house and hose down the fat lady next door after the BBq with 140 degrees of steam perforating degreaser*

*I'm with the other guys on the isolation valves for maintenence, you simply have to have a port to get rid of all the lime and calcium deposits or your heat exchanger is going to take a major crap, tankless needs to have a de-calicying and anti lime cleaning ability*
*I cant imagine the electrical units handling those two minerals with out any long term effects*

*"like me after mexican food" :furious:*


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## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

appreciate the pictures and the information. no t and p needed because low volume and unit has E C O?


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

well ive used the siesco for radient in-floor heat applications. two come to mind. the first has been installed for about 5 years, and the other just a shade over two. both houses were over 5000 sq ft. a piece and to this day they are still running strong. i did install the shut offs w/ built in boiler drains and these units are part of a service contract we implemented for annual heat exchanger servicing. at first the size alone had me saying what the . and the plastic nipples are holding up in a heating application with 170 degree water. time is the test and even i dont think 5 years is big. but its new tech, its working well and ill wait till it bites me before slag it.


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## JonnyReb (Oct 10, 2008)

Pipemaster said:


> *Looks more like a point of use*
> *albiet there are some larger electric tankless's available that will suffice an entire house at greater flow rates*
> *what did that piece of plastic crap cost ya ? *


Yup definitely not a whole house heater. Guess i should have clarified. All i was getting at is, if there was a 4.0 gpm group of fixtures and you needed a shoebox sized water heater. Here's one to look at if a bit blurry

I'm surprised that the rheem is so close in price but handles 3gpm more. I'll remember that. This heater was found by the homeowner and i purchased it from ferguson. They probably charged me double for having to get it from the main warehouse...

I was impressed that it worked as well as it did but maybe i've lived a naive and simple life...oh, no t&p because it has a flow switch...i think..

Guess the service ports make lots of sense, have to add that to the next one, thanks for the suggestion.J.R.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

no Tnp's for tankless. The "Tee"...temp is not required because there is no constant heatr element...same for gas, not under constant flame. The "Pee" ...pressure, I don't know why it is not required for electric tankless heaters, it sure is for gas units. Is there some kind of internal blow off on these units? I have never installed an electric unit. I doubt it because if there was it would need proper drain line.

I never use pipe dope on plastic fittings as it can become very easy to over tighten. 
In my parts tankless heaters are required to have a shutoff on the hot side too.


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## JonnyReb (Oct 10, 2008)

Tankless said:


> Is there some kind of internal blow off on these units? I have never installed an electric unit. I doubt it because if there was it would need proper drain line.
> 
> I never use pipe dope on plastic fittings as it can become very easy to over tighten.
> In my parts tankless heaters are required to have a shutoff on the hot side too.


 
I think the t&p is omitted because no power can flow without the turismo sensor spinning(water flow) There is no way to overheat if the water is flowing fast enough to enact the sensor. There is no thermostat to stick so there isn't much chance of a blow off. Interesting take on the pipe dope. I always have noticed i crack sch. 40 1/2 and 3/4 fittings by using to much teflon tape AND overtightening. Guess overtightening is overtightening.

I'll make sure that my next picture of a water heater has prv's, backflows, multiple shutoffs, t&p, overflow protection, service taps and a pressure tank:jester:
or...i'll just go straight to the homeowner/maintenence forum..:thumbsup: J.R.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

> or...i'll just go straight to the homeowner/maintenence forum..:thumbsup: J.R.


I wasn't running you off or anything like that, I hope you didn't preceive that.



> I think the t&p is omitted because no power can flow without the turismo sensor spinning(water flow) There is no way to overheat if the water is flowing fast enough to enact the sensor.


Should you find yourself doing many tankless installs you will eventually learn that especially with close pumping station the pressure on the structure can increase rapidly. Causing a surge into the structure, therefore spinning the flow sensor causing the unit to "false fire" A fix is a Pressure regulating valve. If you do decide to install a BF preventer make sure there is a Relief Valve on that tankless. You will want to make yourself well versued in closed systems even with an expansion tank. When I asked an inspector about why there was no need for a Temp relief valve, he stated there was not a constant flame. And same thing with electric. When you use all the hot water in a standard tanked heater, there will be constant heat in the recovery process. This has nothing to do with a thermostat sticking, and I get why you mention that, because that would be the cause of a malfunction. However it is simply viewed as "constant". Imagine if there was some new device that is not a thermostat that controls the temp functions. Than all the codes would have to be ammended and updated. 

Again, I wasn't meaning to run you off. These posts are the purpose of this forum.


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## JonnyReb (Oct 10, 2008)

Tankless said:


> I wasn't running you off or anything like that, I hope you didn't preceive that.


Not at all, thanks for the mention. i now realize though that my scope on many parts of my trade is limited. These posts showed how many different perspectives there are across the board and mine has been different from most. I started as a helper and worked for one repair plumber until i had my own license. 15 years of practice since but i've been in several niche markets and there is much i havn't seen. Hopefully this forum will help in that respect. Thanks to all for their input...J.R.


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