# Pipe Freezing Methods



## OldSchool

Ever need to cut into a pipe or repair a pipe with water in the system try freezing it on either side where you want to do the work. We do this on lots of high rises and fire protection systems.

Several methods are:

1. Dry Ice (CO2)- Make an insulated box around pipe where you would like to freeze and add dry ice ( note better result if flow of water is shut down) about 10 minutes pipe is frozen

2. Buy or rent pipe Freezing machine 

3. Liquid Nitrogen - Had to do this on large systems filled with gylcol - made a insulated pipe or container larger than pipe feed liquid nitrogen into container around pipe. Make sure you have a outlet port on container as expansion of nitrogen is 1000 times that of the liquid.
Caution with liquid nitrogen as it could freeze your skin if you come in contact with it. 

If the pipe is large in diameter you can rap 1/2" soft copper line about 10 to 20 turns around pipe , cover with insulation and run liquid nitrogen through 1/2" pipe to open air. This will freeze any liquid in the pipe including oil.


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## Bill

Never done the freeze thing, I always use bread myself.


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## robthaplumber

I use a "Jet Sweat" tool. They come in multiple sizes. Works great.


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## OldSchool

Bill said:


> Never done the freeze thing, I always use bread myself.


Bread works only if the pipe is already open and you are trying to solder. But what if you have a boiler system or large building with domestic water and you either can not shut system down or there is no way to isolate the area with valves. Or if you did not want to drain system down because of loss of water treatment products in system (boiler). Very expensive to bring back water treatment to proper levels.


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## Bill

OldSchool said:


> Bread works only if the pipe is already open and you are trying to solder. But what if you have a boiler system or large building with domestic water and you either can not shut system down or there is no way to isolate the area with valves. Or if you did not want to drain system down because of loss of water treatment products in system (boiler). Very expensive to bring back water treatment to proper levels.


Isee, my bad. I have not worked on such projects so this is new to me. Sorry!


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## Bollinger plumber

I did use the dry ice one time when we could not find the curb cock for a house water service.


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## Pipe Rat

We do that all the time to replace curbstops on water services. We use the General "Cold Shot" it uses liquid CO2 to create dry ice around the pipe. Works great but the water flow has to be stopped.:yes:


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## ILPlumber

I have a ridgid pipe freezer that has never been used except for practice runs. Too much downtime waiting on it.


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## Pipe Rat

ILP is that an electric model? The CO2 I have freezes in just a couple minutes.:thumbup:


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## ILPlumber

Electric with clamp on "heat exchanger" 

2" line would be 25 minutes <-------- estimated. I don't really remember


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## ILPlumber

This is the one I have.


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## SewerRatz

ILPlumber said:


> This is the one I have.


 Same one I have, just mine is battle ship gray still.


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## Protech

There is no such thing as liquid CO2. CO2 sublimates directly from a gas to a solid. There is no liquid phase for that compound. 



Piperat said:


> We do that all the time to replace curbstops on water services. We use the General "Cold Shot" it uses liquid CO2 to create dry ice around the pipe. Works great but the water flow has to be stopped.:yes:


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## Redwood

Protech said:


> There is no such thing as liquid CO2. CO2 sublimates directly from a gas to a solid. There is no liquid phase for that compound.


I guess if you excluded certain temperatures and pressures that could be a true statement...


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## Protech

I mean at 1 atmosphere


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## jerad

i could have used one in december. shut off was frozzen open. customer wanted it replaced. but there was no shut off out side. it was in the street and the city didn't want to bother getting to close it for me. frozzen under the street. so if i had one of those it would have been sweet.


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## Pipe Rat

Protech said:


> There is no such thing as liquid CO2. CO2 sublimates directly from a gas to a solid. There is no liquid phase for that compound.


You should do your homework before claiming your expertise about CO2. Look up dip tube CO2 tanks. The following is taken directly from the General website.
*"The Cold-Shot is easy to use. Just place the
freeze head around the pipe, attach the hose, and open the cylinder
valve. Liquid carbon dioxide will flow into the freeze head and form
dry ice with a temperature of minus 110F° (-79C°). That’s cold
enough to form an ice pack that can withstand 7,000 psi,
yet won’t damage pipes."*
http://www.drainbrain.com/specialties/coldshot.pdf


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## OldSchool

On those hard to freeze jobs use Liquid nitrogen with Glycol or water movement or large diameter pipe jobs. At atmospheric pressure, it boils at −195.8 °C. Very fast freezing.


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## AKdaplumba

why would you get dry ice from?


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## OldSchool

You should be able to get it from any welding supply shop... that carries different gases


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## gear junkie

Protech said:


> There is no such thing as liquid CO2. CO2 sublimates directly from a gas to a solid. There is no liquid phase for that compound.


LOL, love your use of the big words. LOL, makes my day.


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## gear junkie

OldSchool said:


> 3. Liquid Nitrogen - Had to do this on large systems filled with gylcol - made a insulated pipe or container larger than pipe feed liquid nitrogen into container around pipe. Make sure you have a outlet port on container as expansion of nitrogen is 1000 times that of the liquid.
> Caution with liquid nitrogen as it could freeze your skin if you come in contact with it.
> 
> If the pipe is large in diameter you can rap 1/2" soft copper line about 10 to 20 turns around pipe , cover with insulation and run liquid nitrogen through 1/2" pipe to open air. This will freeze any liquid in the pipe including oil.


 How long would a big bottle last? What should your regulator pressure be set at?


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## Protech

There IS no such thing as liquid CO2 at atmospseric pressure. My point in saying that was that you cannot just pour liquid CO2 over the pipe or into a trough around the pipe like you could with liquid nitrogen. That's it.



Piperat said:


> You should do your homework before claiming your expertise about CO2. Look up dip tube CO2 tanks. The following is taken directly from the General website.
> *"The Cold-Shot is easy to use. Just place the
> freeze head around the pipe, attach the hose, and open the cylinder
> valve. Liquid carbon dioxide will flow into the freeze head and form
> dry ice with a temperature of minus 110F° (-79C°). That’s cold
> enough to form an ice pack that can withstand 7,000 psi,
> yet won’t damage pipes."*
> http://www.drainbrain.com/specialties/coldshot.pdf


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## OldSchool

gear junkie said:


> How long would a big bottle last? What should your regulator pressure be set at?


A bottle of liquid nitrogen last about 3 days just sitting there. The last job we did with it took 3 bottles at $ 380.00 each. This was for a high rise on the hot water heating system. We were on lowest floor level and had to cut into heating system for two new apartments that they were constructing. It was in the middle of winter and shutting down the system was not an option. We still had flow and gycol in the system and dry ice would not do it. Liquid Nitrogen however froze it solid. " what presurre on the regulator" I will have to check on that, because I keep increasing the flow all the time tring to freeze it. I will make up a drawing and post it here of the system I made.


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## dankman

Protech said:


> There IS no such thing as liquid CO2 at atmospseric pressure. My point in saying that was that you cannot just pour liquid CO2 over the pipe or into a trough around the pipe like you could with liquid nitrogen. That's it.



CO2 doesn't have a liquid form with an atmospheric pessure below 5>1 atmospheres, you are correct.


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## Miguel

heh, pipe freezing. Been there done that.

The Ridgid freeze machines are da bomb but there can be no flow and they're slow. Never used liquid nitrogen but have use CO2 quite often. Works great as long as you have enough CO2.

I'm not proud of this but I am glad that I *****ed loudly enough that I wasn't comfortable with the process before we began. Local hotel wanted to change out a bunch of valves on the third floor. These valves were on the DHW circuit and we couldn't shut down any of it. I complained loudly enough that I avoided any lawsuits, thankfully!

Ever have a 140°F @ 65# 1" line decide to start spewing full bore and all you have to shut it down is the palm of your hand? Turned the freaking Best Western lobby into a carwash!

We'd used the freeze technique several times with good results at this hotel but the guys paying the bill wanted to push the envelope. I kept saying that but they insisted to the point of signing a waiver. (I thought that the waiver would be enough to get them to simmer down, but they just signed and said let's go!)

For the record, I tried my very best, but 7 seconds was all it took and BAM, flash flood of really hot water!

Maybe if we had Sharkbites.


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## OldSchool

Once it was frozen did you leave the machine on? You have to keep freezing the pipe until you have completed your work. You must have either ran out of CO2 or turned the machine off.....


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## Miguel

OldSchool said:


> Once it was frozen did you leave the machine on? You have to keep freezing the pipe until you have completed your work. You must have either ran out of CO2 or turned the machine off.....


No, we were using CO2 on a HW line (about 10 friggin inches from the recirc tie-in for that floor!) We ran out of gas. :laughing:


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## markb

Miguel said:


> No, we were using CO2 on a HW line (about 10 friggin inches from the recirc tie-in for that floor!) We ran out of gas. :laughing:


What a story!! Lol

Old School, Where did you buy your machine from? We have a situation on King St. where they are renovating a older office building. Our guys can't find a valve for a small riser anywhere! The city even turned off the water to the two building next to this one (maybe they are being supplied from another main). Nothing! So, it looks like we are going to buy the pipe freezing machine. 

Do you know anywhere in Toronto that has a good deal on them? And which one would you recommend?


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## OldSchool

markb said:


> What a story!! Lol
> 
> Old School, Where did you buy your machine from? We have a situation on King St. where they are renovating a older office building. Our guys can't find a valve for a small riser anywhere! The city even turned off the water to the two building next to this one (maybe they are being supplied from another main). Nothing! So, it looks like we are going to buy the pipe freezing machine.
> 
> Do you know anywhere in Toronto that has a good deal on them? And which one would you recommend?


Mark I made mine myself. 

Use a large cylinder of liquid nitrogen from welding supply shop.

you need to have a relief valve rated for liquid nitrogen ... also purchased from welding supply shop.

Come off the cylinder with brass, then relief, then to tee, then split off to two tees and valve ( all this brass and valves purchased from welding supply shop.... Praxair) ( noted vlaves have to be rated for liquid nitrogen) Valves are used to throttle flow

You need to purchase hose rated for liquid nitrogen and it has to be stainless steel braided.

At the end of the hoses make a container that you can rap around the pipe you want to freeze. ( feed liquid nitrogen into bottom of container and vent the top of container to open air).....3/4" hose to container and 3/4" outlet to open air

The container needs an open end so the nitrogen can escape.

Open valve and run the liquid nitrogen through the hoses and containers.

*Several notes of caution* 

- Liquid Nitrogen expands about 1000 times for liquid to gas state.
- the releif valve is a must.... any liquid trapped between the shut of the tank and the valves at the tees will go to gas state. You must have a relief valve between those valves.

- The hose ends must be to open air because the same thing will happen on expansion.
- Safety equipment ... eye protection... gloves and Apron rated for liquid Nitrogen 
- the pipe between the freezing points could rupture as ice expands ... drill a hole in that section once you figure you have frozen the pipe 

My cost to set this up was around $ 600.00 for 40' of hose ( two at 20 ft ). about $ 380.00 for liquid nitrogen. Brass parts $ 200.00

Container I used larger diameter of pipe and cut it down the middle. Drilled two 3/4" holes through each side of split pipe.
bottom side of container silver solder 3/4" copper with female adaptor. Top side soldered 3/4" copper.

Then I wrapped the pipe with weather stripping at both ends and clamped my split pipe around the pipe with larger gear clamps.

Then I was ready to start the liquid nitrogen hook up and start freezing.

Hopefully this helps.. as it work for me like a charm


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## OldSchool

Also to note mark that if you are freezing a small water line you can just run the liquid nitrogen right on the the pipe with out a container. It will freeze instantly. I have done that in high rises all so.


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## njoy plumbing

Matt said:


> I have a ridgid pipe freezer that has never been used except for practice runs. Too much downtime waiting on it.


 Install it and leave it to do its work charging it out at 120/per and head to another service call. I learned after awhile to do this, otherwise you get nothing done in the day.:thumbup:


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## 1plumb4uall

In the good old days I used R-22 .......ok blame it all on me


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## Protech

I hope you're joking 



1plumb4uall said:


> In the good old days I used R-22 .......ok blame it all on me


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## IAplumber

I have used liquid propane to freeze water service before. Be carefull when thawing out tho.


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## UALocal1Plumber

Old school you offer up great advice.

I use the Ridgid machine once in a while if I need to freeze a lead service to replace the service valve.

On copper mains I use the crimping tool. NYC code mandates that you not leave a reformed crimp under the soil, so if the crimp lands outside of the foundation, we're supposed to crimp to cut off flow, freeze a plug, and replace the crimped area with a flared piece. 

I've never frozen anything over 1 1/2" though, and your knowledge on larger services is very valuable. I'm printing this thread out for future reference. 

Thanks!
Keith


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## bikefitter0

i can't get dry ice around here any more. i have used it, no real way of knowing when it's ready to cut


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## OldSchool

bikefitter0 said:


> i can't get dry ice around here any more. i have used it, no real way of knowing when it's ready to cut


When you think it is ready ... drill a small pin hole in the pipe section that you are trying to isolate ... to see if there is pressure or not.


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## OldSchool

OldSchool said:


> Mark I made mine myself.
> 
> Use a large cylinder of liquid nitrogen from welding supply shop.
> 
> you need to have a relief valve rated for liquid nitrogen ... also purchased from welding supply shop.
> 
> Come off the cylinder with brass, then relief, then to tee, then split off to two tees and valve ( all this brass and valves purchased from welding supply shop.... Praxair) ( noted vlaves have to be rated for liquid nitrogen) Valves are used to throttle flow
> 
> You need to purchase hose rated for liquid nitrogen and it has to be stainless steel braided.
> 
> At the end of the hoses make a container that you can rap around the pipe you want to freeze. ( feed liquid nitrogen into bottom of container and vent the top of container to open air).....3/4" hose to container and 3/4" outlet to open air
> 
> The container needs an open end so the nitrogen can escape.
> 
> Open valve and run the liquid nitrogen through the hoses and containers.
> 
> *Several notes of caution*
> 
> - Liquid Nitrogen expands about 1000 times for liquid to gas state.
> - the releif valve is a must.... any liquid trapped between the shut of the tank and the valves at the tees will go to gas state. You must have a relief valve between those valves.
> 
> - The hose ends must be to open air because the same thing will happen on expansion.
> - Safety equipment ... eye protection... gloves and Apron rated for liquid Nitrogen
> - the pipe between the freezing points could rupture as ice expands ... drill a hole in that section once you figure you have frozen the pipe
> 
> My cost to set this up was around $ 600.00 for 40' of hose ( two at 20 ft ). about $ 380.00 for liquid nitrogen. Brass parts $ 200.00
> 
> Container I used larger diameter of pipe and cut it down the middle. Drilled two 3/4" holes through each side of split pipe.
> bottom side of container silver solder 3/4" copper with female adaptor. Top side soldered 3/4" copper.
> 
> Then I wrapped the pipe with weather stripping at both ends and clamped my split pipe around the pipe with larger gear clamps.
> 
> Then I was ready to start the liquid nitrogen hook up and start freezing.
> 
> Hopefully this helps.. as it work for me like a charm


*Update*

*if you guys build a Liquid Nitrogen* *machine or tool ....*

*Make sure you do not use ball valves*

*Liquid Nitrogen will be trapped in ball section and could explode as it turns to a gas state *


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## bikefitter0

thank's old school


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## PLUMBER_BILL

bikefitter0 said:


> thank's old school


Let me add something as a tip when freezing smaller lines with Co2.

Waste a self tap valve in the pipe this will give you a controlled method for making sure you are frozen before cutting.


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## Redwood

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Let me add something as a tip when freezing smaller lines with Co2.
> 
> Waste a self tap valve in the pipe this will give you a controlled method for making sure you are frozen before cutting.


Finally a use for those junk self piercing valves they put in the ice maker supplies.... :thumbup:


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## CoralRockPlumb

ridgid pipe freezer takes too long, its like an AC unit, it can freeze itself and stop freezing the pipe. Get Gas CO2 or Nitro, nitro is the strongest. Rothenberger has a small spray can works great on small pipes upto 1"


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## Tim`s Plumbing

Cold Shot by General works great. About six years ago we where replacing valves on a hot water heating system at a High School we only had one cold shot on the job so we would freeze a line then take apart the union and replace the valve. Then start freezing the next room. Well I was in the middle of replacing the valve and one of the other guys took it so he could start freezing another room. I was nearly done when all of a sudden I heard the ice block starting to move then next thing you know I had a flood on my hands. Long story short keep the freeze kit on until you are done with the repair.


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## bizzybeeplumbin

I use general also. Just make sure your can is full!

That plug goes about 25-30 seconds after the unit turns off.


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## Adamche

My old boss tried to get me to use a propane cylinder turned upside down I told him good luck with that, but I'm not doing it:blink:


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## Mississippiplum

Adamche said:


> My old boss tried to get me to use a propane cylinder turned upside down I told him good luck with that, but I'm not doing it:blink:


That can't be safe

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## rocksteady

Adamche said:


> My old boss tried to get me to use a propane cylinder turned upside down I told him good luck with that, but I'm not doing it:blink:


I was watching an episode of American Chopper a few years ago and they had a gear that was tough to remove. They got the bright idea of using Nitrogen to freeze it, thus shrinking the metal and getting it off the shaft it was stuck to. They went through all the effort of finding the cylinder, setting it up and blasting room temperature nitrogen gas all over the place. "Oh, it's got to be_ liquid_!" Hilarious. :laughing:






Paul


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## Adamche

Mississippiplum said:


> That can't be safe
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


Yeah just needed someone walking past, smoking....
Kaboom


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## DesertOkie

Has anyone used the bag style pipe freezing kits?


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## Tim`s Plumbing

DesertOkie said:


> Has anyone used the bag style pipe freezing kits?


 I have used the bag style but it has been many years since I have. Ever since General came out with the Cold Shot that works much better.


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## DesertOkie

Tim`s Plumbing said:


> I have used the bag style but it has been many years since I have. Ever since General came out with the Cold Shot that works much better.



How big can the cold shot go? The kits I have seen are up to 1 1/2.


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## Tim`s Plumbing

DesertOkie said:


> How big can the cold shot go? The kits I have seen are up to 1 1/2.


 The Cold Shot I have goes up to 2" .


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## brians plumbing

It is a must to have a pipe squeeze tool if your freezing copper in a medical facility.


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## OldSchool

Bump


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## OldSchool

This is the rig I made for liquid nitrogen


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## plbgbiz

Maybe if you turn that damn thing off you would not have so much trouble getting water to your horses :laughing:


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## OldSchool

plbgbiz said:


> Maybe if you turn that damn thing off you would not have so much trouble getting water to your horses :laughing:


I don't have a problem getting water to the horses ... The wife does ... LOL


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## U666A

OldSchool said:


> This is the rig I made for liquid nitrogen


Looks like it's working, everything around it is frozen! :laughing:

Is that ptfe tape I spy?!? :detective:


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## OldSchool

U666A said:


> Looks like it's working, everything around it is frozen! :laughing:
> 
> Is that ptfe tape I spy?!? :detective:


It looks like Teflon ... I made this some time ago .. And look the tape still looks in good condition


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## tbagz831

robthaplumber said:


> I use a "Jet Sweat" tool. They come in multiple sizes. Works great.


youtook the words right out of my mouth


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## rjbphd

tbagz831 said:


> youtook the words right out of my mouth


Hey tbag.. u been here almost 2 years and no proper intro??? Why is that??


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## Greenguy

Liquid nitro works the best, i have used the General cold shot, also used the bags for larger pipes when it comes to hot lines i prefer to use both the cold shot and the bags to get it frozen solid, or just use liquid nitro.

http://www.nitropipefreeze.com check out there galleries, used these guys several times was very impressed.


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