# FYI 12" rough means 12" rough.



## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

I frequently will install a 12" rough toilet on a flange that is only 11 1/2" or sometimes even 11" flange rough (these are replacements, I did'nt rough it in). 

The other day I installed a Toto "Eco Guinevere" and I'm letting you know that if you don't have 12" then just go ahead and order the 10" rough flange adapter. It will save you some heartache.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

you could always just buy a 10" center toilet


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> you could always just buy a 10" center toilet


Yup, thats pretty much what i have done


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

If you are not familiar with this toilet, then you should know that the porcelain is the same regardless of whether it is a 10", 12", or 14". This toilet has an adapter that bolts on the flange and anchors to the floor. The length of the adapter is what changes, the toilet itself only comes in one size.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I am says scrap the Toto and get a real toilet


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

at least with the toto, you can get the 10" gray flange adapter. With the kohler cimarron, you need 113/4, if its less, you are taking back the whole toilet!!

No room to budge on the kohler.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Have you noticed all floor mount, top spud toilets are 10" rough. If you swap out an old one, you usually have to rework the 1" supply looking out of the wall.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> I am says scrap the Toto and get a real toilet


Not sure if you're trying to bait me but I'm not biting. This toilet was requested by the ho, performs magnificently, and I, having installed Toto models before that utilized this flange adapter, understood before hand that it was a more difficult and time consuming installation and charged accordingly.

I was only trying to spare some fellow plumbers a few difficulties since the measurements are less forgiving on this particular toilet.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

smellslike$tome said:


> Not sure if you're trying to bait me but I'm not biting. This toilet was requested by the ho, performs magnificently, and I, having installed Toto models before that utilized this flange adapter, understood before hand that it was a more difficult and time consuming installation and charged accordingly.
> 
> I was only trying to spare some fellow plumbers a few difficulties since the measurements are less forgiving on this particular toilet.


Why would I bait you :laughing:

Just dont like Toto to much.... if I can avoid installing one all the better...


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

I see that you favor chamber pots but they just aren't very popular with my clientele :laughing:. It's true, chamber pots are less prone to stoppages, that is as long as one has an open window in close proximity, they just haven't caught on here yet. Do you offer a sales training program? Well, on second thought, I guess I'll just stick with Toto .


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

smellslike$tome said:


> I see that you favor chamber pots but they just aren't very popular with my clientele :laughing:. It's true, chamber pots are less prone to stoppages, that is as long as one has an open window in close proximity, they just haven't caught on here yet. Do you offer a sales training program? Well, on second thought, I guess I'll just stick with Toto .


Only our wealthy clients up here can afford chamber pots...

trying to upsell this to my other clients and it is a hard sell


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I can't understand the opposition to Toto, IMHO they're some of the best performing toilets...if not the best.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Pretty much all I sell is Toto. Best performing toilet on the market bar none


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I put the Mike Holmes endorsed toilet " the Niagra Flaper less"


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

As with any new throne a check of the spec sheet would have told you that if they had gone with the Eco-Drake instead, the 12" rough would have fit down to a 10 7/8" rough... 

Note the 1 1/8" space behind the tank....
Gotta check that spec sheet to save trouble... :thumbup:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I am not sure why it is here it seems that most plumbers rough in all toilets at 13 inches from the unfinished wall or more. It cracks me up here with the distance between the tank and wall. The next issue is all the offset cast iron flanges it almost seems the prints cannot be read. We find most people are leaner’s on toilets and the tanks lean towards the wall.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

I'm a huge fan of Toto toilets. Best performing line available IMHO.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Toto's what I'm refering my customers to based on their interests as they tell them to me.
Out of the box performance consitancy with mostly generic mechanisms.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I put the Mike Holmes endorsed toilet " the Niagra Flaper less"


When I worked at a local Hdwr store when I first started my apprenticeship, i sold dozens and dozens of them...

Never installed one though...

I know Kung Fu!


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Redwood said:


> As with any new throne a check of the spec sheet would have told you that if they had gone with the Eco-Drake instead, the 12" rough would have fit down to a 10 7/8" rough...
> 
> Note the 1 1/8" space behind the tank....
> Gotta check that spec sheet to save trouble... :thumbup:


Yes, except when a client picks out an $1158.00 toilet (with installation) from the Toto website and says "This is the one I want", I'm not inclined to argue with him.

It all turned out fine and everybody's happy.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I am not sure why it is here it seems that most plumbers rough in all toilets at 13 inches from the unfinished wall or more. It cracks me up here with the distance between the tank and wall. The next issue is all the offset cast iron flanges it almost seems the prints cannot be read. We find most people are leaner’s on toilets and the tanks lean towards the wall.


It's a one-piece. No leaning tanks.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> Yes, except when a client picks out an $1158.00 toilet (with installation) from the Toto website and says "This is the one I want", I'm not inclined to argue with him.
> 
> It all turned out fine and everybody's happy.


I hear ya...
All I'm saying is a check of the spec sheet would have let you know there was only 3/4" of wiggle room on the rough...

So you would have known it going in....

Some of the Toto designs are critical on the height and off center distance of the angle stop as well...


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Redwood said:


> I hear ya...
> All I'm saying is a check of the spec sheet would have let you know there was only 3/4" of wiggle room on the rough...
> 
> So you would have known it going in....
> ...


You're right. I did have to move the water line about 2" to the left and I also had to take out some quarter round at the base of the wall. It's all seamless though. Next time I will know better.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I hear you all on the Totos ,, but they seem quite higher in cost . I find the Gerber line flushes just as well , if not better . Much more affordable to a larger clientele . Unless ordered buy a HO ,,i'm sticking to Gerber ! my .02


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

drtyhands said:


> Toto's what I'm refering my customers to based on their interests as they tell them to me.
> Out of the box performance consitancy with mostly generic mechanisms.




Good luck, Toto has defective toilet handles, their guenavier was recalled due to dripping sounds long after the toilet was done refilling. This was caused by a faulty flush valve. I did 4 drakes in one house, all the Douglas valves were loose and leaked after a week.

Years ago, Toto was a great toilet. now its crap.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> Good luck, Toto has defective toilet handles, their guenavier was recalled due to dripping sounds long after the toilet was done refilling. This was caused by a faulty flush valve. I did 4 drakes in one house, all the Douglas valves were loose and leaked after a week.
> 
> Years ago, Toto was a great toilet. now its crap.


Thanks for the update Robert.
In the past I've told the customers about the junk fill valve and put in the fluidmaster.Haven't run into the other problems,thanks for the heads up,I'll keep an eye out.
I do not like any other brand.And before you say it.I hate Kohler and their uppity angle on everything having to be proprietary,and I've had a couple tank to bowl leakers.American Standard Champions have let me down twice.

What the he!!s the matter this mornin' you grumpy Ba$tard.
Oh I know...Santa didn't get your letter about the "Tattoo Barbie"


Merry Christmas Day
Talk to you in a bit
Adam
:jester:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Had a good one*

We installed a toto *one piece* toilet for a high end
situation back in the summer.... the bottom plate of the toilet goes all the way back to the wall on the floor 

those are pretty mean... if you dont have more than 12 rough you will end up having to take the trim off the wall to get it to fit correctly....

we cut out the corner round on the floor to gain the extra half inch needed to get the china to sit down to the concrete... 

caulking covered up the knotch we made in the wood
to get this puppu to sit down correctly.... 

 I thought we were gonna have to tear up the concrete to get this to work but we got lucky


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I have a number of issues with Toto. I have a Drake in house, as well as a Gerber Avalanche. 

I've installed the ones with the plastic bend - not too impressed. What happens when the thin seal rots?

But mine had an apparently bad porcelain in the bowl. Looks terrible. It's about five years old and has looked that way for years. We have hard water. There is a seam that runs around the bowl at the waterline making it very hard to clean the hard water that builds up there.

If the Toto fill valve isn't working properly, it will plug up. It has to refill exactly right, and the special Korky fill valve costs twice as much as its regular cousin and isn't available at any suppliers I'm aware of. 

The Gerber, on the other hand, has a nice round and smooth bowl, flushes like a champ, and can use virtually any fill valve.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Toto makes some of the best plumbing fixtures in the world.

I couldnt live without my washlet... praise toto

If my customers dont want to spend 300 for a toilet they get a Mainsfield


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Herk said:


> I have a number of issues with Toto. I have a Drake in house, as well as a Gerber Avalanche.
> 
> I've installed the ones with the plastic bend - not too impressed. What happens when the thin seal rots?
> 
> ...


 
replace it, let me know when that happens, cause ive got hundreds installed with no problems.

not sure i uderstand what you mean. Bad porcelain

if its not working properly put in a 400a or whatever you like,

:blink:


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

They make offset flange that gives you an inch


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