# Water heater



## dclark (Dec 12, 2010)

At a furnace no heat call, finished, looked up to see this.. offered to repair, declined.. "it was installed by water heater only specialists about 2 years ago".. implying.. what do you know, furnace boy?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Looks real professional( roll eyes)


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

It looks like that B.S. hot water booster chingadingas that Home Depot sells made by sharkbite that promises to "extend your amount of available hot water":laughing:


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Is that 1/2" going into the water heater too...
Oh lord lol ...
When I see stuff like that 
I think of job security


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Leach713 said:


> Is that 1/2" going into the water heater too... Oh lord lol ... When I see stuff like that I think of job security


It's 1/2" most likely because the house line is 1/2"


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

the sharkbites are average looking....its not good to 
instal those sharkbite fittings directly to the top of the water heater, 


but what is the SS loopie thing that is attached to theheater from hot to cold???


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> the sharkbites are average looking....its not good to instal those sharkbite fittings directly to the top of the water heater, but what is the SS loopie thing that is attached to theheater from hot to cold???


It's a mixing valve.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> ...what is the SS loopie thing that is attached to theheater from hot to cold???


It's nothing new, just a mixing valve. The only difference is it is mounted at the tank connections which is quite convenient.

The water heater runs at a higher temperature and cold water is added to temper it back to safe levels. Since more cold water is needed to make 140deg water comfortable than for 120deg water, the hot water stored in the tank lasts considerably longer.

Bradford white has a 25gal model that out performs standard standard 50gal models...and not by just a little bit. I have installed several with great results.

They now sell the mixing valve kit as an accessory for any water heater.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> It's 1/2" most likely because the house line is 1/2"



Ok gotcha but from my understanding 
A proper sized home should be 3/4 and up 
Depending on gmp fixtures 
Now the main trunk line from a water distribution system should also be ran full size to water heater and the reduce to fixtures

Right?


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> Ok gotcha but from my understanding
> A proper sized home should be 3/4 and up
> Depending on gmp fixtures
> Now the main trunk line from a water distribution system should also be ran full size to water heater and the reduce to fixtures
> ...


Yes, in many cases a water heater feed line will be 3/4 of an inch based on the fixture sizing count your area uses. 

A lot of times it should be bigger based on the count but few bother to install the proper sized pipe for a variety of reasons. Customer won't pay for it, the plumber doesn't believe it makes a difference, it only has 3/4 connections on top so whats the point, etc....


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> It's nothing new, just a mixing valve. The only difference is it is mounted at the tank connections which is quite convenient.
> 
> The water heater runs at a higher temperature and cold water is added to temper it back to safe levels. Since more cold water is needed to make 140deg water comfortable than for 120deg water, the hot water stored in the tank lasts considerably longer.
> 
> ...


I didn't know that about the BW mixing valve that it will save hot water. I never thought about how it would but that's really cool and makes sense. 

I didn't like that it used 1/2" lines but still the concept is good.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I didn't know that about the BW mixing valve that it will save hot water. I never thought about how it would but that's really cool and makes sense.
> 
> I didn't like that it used 1/2" lines but still the concept is good.


The down side (there always is a down side)...

Water heaters ran at ultra high temps do not typically last as long.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> The down side (there always is a down side)...
> 
> Water heaters ran at ultra high temps do not typically last as long.


Okay, so you have to run it at about 140° to work effectively & to be efficient, supposedly? That is actually not that high. I turn up water heater's temperature in the winter time to about 135°. 

I do agree with you, though, about the higher the temperature of the shorter the life span of the tank. I turn my down during the summer time because our attics are already at 150° not to mention he temperature of the cold water will be around 80°. 

I think your water heater may last longer if you adjust the temp for the season.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

That and proper maintainer 
Flushing the water heater twice a yr depending on age of water


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> That and proper maintainer
> Flushing the water heater twice a yr depending on age of water


Can you prove that flushing a water heater increases the performance or life? 

I have a 25 year old A.O. Smith electric water heater that has never been flushed in the 8 years we have lived in the home. While it may quit at anytime I'd say 25 years it not too shabby. :laughing:

I'd argue that the terrible design and performance of a standard drain valve allows for little benefit to draining a water heater. Maybe if a person installed a full port ball valve they may actually be able to get the build up out.  Which would help, but then I would bring into question what benefit it provides.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Can you prove that flushing a water heater increases the performance or life?
> 
> I have a 25 year old A.O. Smith electric water heater that has never been flushed in the 8 years we have lived in the home. While it may quit at anytime I'd say 25 years it not too shabby. :laughing:
> 
> I'd argue that the terrible design and performance of a standard drain valve allows for little benefit to draining a water heater. Maybe if a person installed a full port ball valve they may actually be able to get the build up out. Which would help, but then I would bring into question what benefit it provides.


I flush out my heaters twice a year. It gives me an opportunity to check for leaks and clean all the build-up out. I have a 3/4" full port ball valve and use an old copper flex line to connect it to an adaptor I have on a tee on the T&P drain. The tee is capped then rest of the time. My water heater's in the attic so I don't see it often. Most people see their water heaters twice a year: once to get out the Xmas decor and once to put it back. 

Our water in Houston is terrible so flushing out a tank is a good idea. The amount of crap that accumulates reduces efficiency and lessens the life. 

When the water heater rumbles that is due the trapped water in the sediment boiling and breaking up when the burner is on. On a gas heater the burner has to heat thru all that build-up that accumulates on the bottom and walls of the tank. It heats up a lot more due to the added resistance of the build-up in the tank and on the bottom of the tank in the burner box. All this extra work reduces the life of the tank. 

If you can flush out the tank twice a year and replace the anode rod every 4 to 6 yrs as necessary you can increase the life expectancy and efficiency of the heater barring manufacturers defects. 

Electric heaters heat with elements so flushing them out helps to keep from the bottom element burning out sooner than expected. It also helps to maintain capacity. I also recommend replacing the anode rod in elect heaters when necessary to save the life of the elements, too. 

If a softner is feeding the heater than I would just flush it out once a year. Sand and other crap can still build up in the tank. The anode rod can still be degraded. I have seen a completely dissolved anode rod after 5 years on a system that had a softner and a carbon filter. I tested the water to make sure they were working and they were. Other things in our water can eat up an anode. 

Here in Houston and surrounding areas I am a big believer in water heater maintenance. 

The new Bradford White heaters finally come stock with a ball valve. It is a reduced port but still a lot better than plastic valves or even the standard brass boiler drains.

I also replace the T&P every 3 years.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I flush out my heaters twice a year. It gives me an opportunity to check for leaks and clean all the build-up out. I have a 3/4" full port ball valve and use an old copper flex line to connect it to an adaptor I have on a tee on the T&P drain. The tee is capped then rest of the time. My water heater's in the attic so I don't see it often. Most people see their water heaters twice a year: once to get out the Xmas decor and once to put it back.
> 
> Our water in Houston is terrible so flushing out a tank is a good idea. The amount of crap that accumulates reduces efficiency and lessens the life.
> 
> ...


Good explanation. 

For those who have the skills, know how, and ability this is a feasible option. But what about those who don't? Paying someone to come out and add these options and then perform a min once a year flushing is likely not worth it in the long run. 

Although I agree that its something that should be done. Water heaters like most other household appliances don't see any type of maintenance and are only thought about when something goes wrong.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Good explanation.
> 
> For those who have the skills, know how, and ability this is a feasible option. But what about those who don't? Paying someone to come out and add these options and then perform a min once a year flushing is likely not worth it in the long run.
> 
> Although I agree that its something that should be done. Water heaters like most other household appliances don't see any type of maintenance and are only thought about when something goes wrong.


It depends on the customer and whether or not they have had a flooded house before due to a water heater. I agree that paying someone in the long run is costly and probably not worth it financially but for many people its the peace of mind that makes it worthwhile which is how I approach it as a salesman. I don't push the maintenance plans too much, though, unless people ask about them or if they would really benefit.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Good explanation.
> 
> For those who have the skills, know how, and ability this is a feasible option. But what about those who don't? Paying someone to come out and add these options and then perform a min once a year flushing is likely not worth it in the long run.
> 
> Although I agree that its something that should be done. Water heaters like most other household appliances don't see any type of maintenance and are only thought about when something goes wrong.


Depends on how you look at it. Could that not be said for all preventative maintenance tasks in a home?

Not everyone can change the oil in their lawn equipment. Heck, not everyone has the skill, know-how, or ability to even mow the yard. For them it is well worth it to pay for the service rather than never change oil in the mower.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Can you prove that flushing a water heater increases the performance or life? I have a 25 year old A.O. Smith electric water heater that has never been flushed in the 8 years we have lived in the home. While it may quit at anytime I'd say 25 years it not too shabby. :laughing: I'd argue that the terrible design and performance of a standard drain valve allows for little benefit to draining a water heater. Maybe if a person installed a full port ball valve they may actually be able to get the build up out. Which would help, but then I would bring into question what benefit it provides.


Not to shabby but that also tell me that your water is not to heavy with sediment 

Now if your water heater is that old then I recommend that you should swap it out for a new one does the t and p valve work

Are the element still good?


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Man I love Pz.....
Lost of knowledge 
Good stuff


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> Man I love Pz.....
> Lost of knowledge
> Good stuff


 Lost of knowledge??


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Lost of knowledge??


Possibly an accurate statement. :laughing:


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Depends on how you look at it. Could that not be said for all preventative maintenance tasks in a home? Not everyone can change the oil in their lawn equipment. Heck, not everyone has the skill, know-how, or ability to even mow the yard. For them it is well worth it to pay for the service rather than never change oil in the mower.


You don't need to be the head cashier at the Piggly Wiggly to know how to attach a hose and turn a screwdriver


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Oops meant to say lots of ****
Dang one wrong move and I get eating up 
Though crowd


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MTDUNN said:


> You don't need to be the head cashier at the Piggly Wiggly to know how to attach a hose and turn a screwdriver


 

we take for granted the skills we have.....

the head cashier at the pigley wigley might seem like a great guy but hand him that screw-driver and he probably will poke his own eye out with it trying to do that task.......

it amazes me that there are folks walking the streets that barely have the ability to wipe their own asses...

and at the same time it terrifies me that these same folks are going 85 miles an hour right next to me on the interstate rush home tonight..


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Master Mark said:


> we take for granted the skills we have.....
> 
> the head cashier at the pigley wigley might seem like a great guy but hand him that screw-driver and he probably will poke his own eye out with it trying to do that task.......
> 
> ...


And they vote...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

It is not just about intelligence. I know exactly how to change the oil on my car, but I choose not to. 

I gladly pay a service call twice a year to have my HVAC system checked. And yes, I know how to change the filter and wash out the condenser. I also know that if something does come up during the look-see, I don't want to mess with it. It is much better for me to have the HVAC guy discover that problem and professionally handle it than it is for me to get surprised on Sunday morning when I thought I had a five minute filter change to deal with. 

I also know that if the drain valve on a water heater turns into Pandora's box, it is better for the customer if it happens to me and not them. 

No matter how elementary and mundane the task may seem, I welcome the opportunity to be face to face with a client that sees monetary value in me being the safety net.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> we take for granted the skills we have.....
> 
> the head cashier at the pigley wigley might seem like a great guy but hand him that screw-driver and he probably will poke his own eye out with it trying to do that task.......
> 
> ...


This is what I was going to say but didn't get it done. Recently I've come to realize just how much more skilled the average plumber is over the majority of homeowners. 

Once you have learned something it is easy to forget what it was like before you knew it. 



plbgbiz said:


> It is not just about intelligence. I know exactly how to change the oil on my car, but I choose not to.
> 
> I gladly pay a service call twice a year to have my HVAC system checked. And yes, I know how to change the filter and wash out the condenser. I also know that if something does come up during the look-see, I don't want to mess with it. It is much better for me to have the HVAC guy discover that problem and professionally handle it than it is for me to get surprised on Sunday morning when I thought I had a five minute filter change to deal with.
> 
> ...


I gladly pay for many service including leaf removal, and I consider all worth the cost of the service performed. 

My argument continues to be that an annual or semi-annual flushing service performed by a plumber is likely not worth it in the long run for increasing the longevity of a water heater. 

If a customer deems it worthy then by all means I would flush water heaters all day long for a service call a piece. :thumbup:

To me its a tough sell because its hard to prove the value in doing the task, its a harder sell because people around here don't give a **** about their appliances until they break, in my experience.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

I still prefer the Watts mixing valve over these ones. I just think that plumbed in plumb and square they look more professional than the stainless ones. Since it is code here that the heater has to be at 140 to kill off legionnaires desease, but we can be no more than 120 at point of use. Just my preference, most h/o remove them after which gives another service call.
I recommend the customer call for a service call, for two reasons the first that the sediment may cause the valve at the bottom to fail and the second that if it is electric and they empty it that there goes the elements.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> And they vote...


 


And they breed...

and they vote for whomever looks more like them or 
whomever gives them the most benefits...... to keep on breeding.:yes:






that is why everyone who works
and pays taxes to keep it all going .... is in trouble


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