# All about PEX



## PEXguru (Feb 12, 2009)

Let's talk about PEX. Any questions or problems.
I've had my hand on almost all types and brands out there and want to see what others think of it.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Step forth and introduce yourself friend, so we may know you as a brother, or an interloper.


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## marceliciouz (Feb 12, 2009)

hi..
i'm new here,
i just wanna know.. what usually PEX used for?


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

uaplumber said:


> Step forth and introduce yourself friend, so we may know you as a brother, or an interloper.


Seems to me that we've had a lot of interlopers wandering in lately. Maybe it's just me.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

marceliciouz said:


> hi..
> i'm new here,
> i just wanna know.. what usually PEX used for?


It's conduit for the electric lines that are used to power toilets and faucets.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

The more you install pex , the more you sell your brother plumber down the river


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

PEXguru said:


> Let's talk about PEX. Any questions or problems.
> I've had my hand on almost all types and brands out there and want to see what others think of it.


 
Let's not and say we did. Oh we already have, over and over and over again. Let's talk about tankless heaters. Now there's a pretty safe subject. :thumbsup:


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

******* said:


> EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!


I can see uses for it, if it can freeze without bursting as the claims state, I had to repipe the families cabin a couple years ago because it it got cold earlier than usual and we didn't have time to get out there to drain the system down in time.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

*Um, ok.*



******* said:


> The more you install pex , the more you sell your brother plumber down the river


I have a better quote. "Those that don't use or haven't bothered learning anything about pex are the ones usually bashing it." Whatever you say *******, I guess I'll be sending all my fellow brothers all the way down to the gulf of Mexico then because that is all I install these days and forever more. I sold two more complete repipes today for next week. I'm extremely busy these days and a lot of it has to do with customers calling me asking for PEX. I don't even have to sell it, it sells itself. Word of mouth is a wonderful thing, the more pex I install around here the more people are loving it and telling their neighbors. I feel sorry for those of you missing out. I can tell you this, they already know about it and they want NOTHING to do with copper. I have enough homes in my general area that have rotting galvanized pipes and copper that's springing leaks to keep me busy for the rest of my days!:laughing:
One of the jobs I scheduled for next week the customer actually knew a lot about pex, how it's resistant to bad water, won't split open in a freeze as easy as copper etc. etc., he already knew!!!!!! He was already sold before I even got there! Time to start getting educated or get left behind.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

******* said:


> EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!


I'm sorry, I usually don't say things like this on message boards but.. never mind, I'm not going to argue with you. You're doing a great job making yourself look like what I said before anyway.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Please keep such ignorant comments to your self. I know hundreds of state certified master plumbers that use pex(including myself). Many of said plumbers are more experienced than you by far.



******* said:


> EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Same here.



ironranger said:


> I have a better quote. "Those that don't use or haven't bothered learning anything about pex are the ones usually bashing it." Whatever you say *******, I guess I'll be sending all my fellow brothers all the way down to the gulf of Mexico then because that is all I install these days and forever more. I sold two more complete repipes today for next week. I'm extremely busy these days and a lot of it has to do with customers calling me asking for PEX. I don't even have to sell it, it sells itself. Word of mouth is a wonderful thing, the more pex I install around here the more people are loving it and telling their neighbors. I feel sorry for those of you missing out. I can tell you this, they already know about it and they want NOTHING to do with copper. I have enough homes in my general area that have rotting galvanized pipes and copper that's springing leaks to keep me busy for the rest of my days!:laughing:
> One of the jobs I scheduled for next week the customer actually knew a lot about pex, how it's resistant to bad water, won't split open in a freeze as easy as copper etc. etc., he already knew!!!!!! He was already sold before I even got there! Time to start getting educated or get left behind.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Yea, I am wrong huh?

Small facts:

#1 copper is a resource 

#2 plastic hurts the EARTH

#3

Here argue with this:

*Antimicrobial Copper in Healthcare*


> Learn more about antimicrobial copper and the important new role it will play in the fight against MRSA and other bacteria that cause hospital-acquired infections.


#4
Bunch of other people see it my way http://www.copper.org/homepage.html

#5 

Come on Be serious,,,,,you really think adding MORE plastic is good for anyone?

#6 BTW, I have been plumbing with pex since 1997 call Conor Spear Plumbing In New Burn NC ASK FOR WADE....ask him home many miles of that crap we ran and how much we pulled out from homes.when it went bad.....go on call him tell Him Joe from NY, he will remember me I worked for him for over a year.

#7

You guys must be new to plumbing if your seriously going to sit here and argue pex is better and then not have anything to back it up besides "wet head is an idiot"


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Let's not and say we did. Oh we already have, over and over and over again. Let's talk about tankless heaters. Now there's a pretty safe subject. :thumbsup:


Point of order, you left out the flat-rate debate.

Mark :thumbsup:


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

#8 for my fans 


GOOGLE DEFINE *PLUMB*



*adjust with a plumb line so as to make vertical *
exactly; "fell plumb in the middle of the puddle"
*exactly vertical; "the tower of Pisa is far out of plumb"*
SO my friends are you "pexers" or PLUMBERS?

CAUSE I haven't seen much *PLUMB*ed pex lines


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Oh here is some more from stupid non experienced, uneducated *******:

source:
http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/restools/cu_brchrs/why_chse_cu.html
*In case of fire, is copper plumbing dangerous?*

Copper tube used in any kind of water distribution system won't melt or burn or give off toxic fumes. While a home fire can reach temperatures of 1,500°F, copper offers an extra margin of safety with a melting point of nearly 2,000°F. For these reasons, copper tube is preferred for automatic fire sprinkler systems.



*I hear building codes are getting stricter all the time. How does copper fit in?*

Copper is the only plumbing material that meets or exceeds building code requirements in all 50 states.


*Take the Test*

Before you unknowingly accept what you haven't seen in a new home or make a hasty decision based on what appears to be a lower initial cost, do yourself a great favor. Take the *12- Point Plumbing Test* below. And remember, you do have a choice! 
 

Does your plumbing material have a long-term proven performance record?
Is it impermeable; can it block contaminants from penetrating its walls?
Can the joints withstand rapid pressure and temperature changes?
Will it perform well in all weather; is it easily thawed, if necessary?
Does it resist punctures and abrasions and not embrittle with age?
Can it inhibit the breeding of harmful germs?
Will it not burn or give off smoke or toxic fumes when exposed to fire?
Will it withstand the weather and the sun's ultraviolet rays in outdoor applications?
Is it virtually maintenance-free; does it have a low lifetime cost of ownership?
Will it add to your home's resale value?
Does it have nationwide approval of building inspectors and engineers?
Does it have inherent quality and value, or is it false economy?


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

"wet head is an idiot"

You said it, not me. But since you did bring it up I have to agree with you.
JK *******, you're entitled to your opinion just like anyone else even if I do think you're WAY out in left field on this one! LOL


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Time to do battle.........

#1 WTF are you even trying to say here?

#2 How is that?

#3 I'll get back to this one in my next post as I have not followed your link yet.

#4 Same as #3

#5 Yes, you don't seem to have any problems with the plastic tubing that doctors would use to save your life with, or the plastic insulation on wires, or the Teflon you use to seal your threaded connections, or the mouse you have your hand on right now and the list goes on.....
Do you really want to get into a debate over the need for plastics? I'm all for being an independent thinker, but that's out there man.

#6 Good for you. What brand were you installing? What type of fittings? What applications? When and where did these failures occur? What was the cause?

#7 Actually, I'm a multi generation master plumber with over ten years experience. I could sweat copper years before I could drive. Nearly all the men in my family are plumbers. I have never done anything other than plumbing in my working life(save a few months as a life guard). I own a major share of the plumbing market in my area. In fact, 3 other companies in my area call me on a monthly basis for advice.

I have a mountain of experience and documentation to back what I say up. So lets get right down to it then.

Counter points:
PEX is the preferred material for residential and light commercial water distribution applications:

It has by far, a lower life cycle cost than copper.
It naturally resists water hammer.
It's uses less energy to manufacture and ship than copper.
It is not damaged by excessive water speed, chlorine, or aggressive water.
It's far more freeze resistant than copper.
There is no comparison between the two when talking about repiping.




******* said:


> Yea, I am wrong huh?
> 
> Small facts:
> 
> ...


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Pex is here to stay, it is the way of the future, it is the best stuff ever made.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Pex is here to stay, it is the way of the future, it is the best stuff ever made.


They said the same thing about polybutylene.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> They said the same thing about polybutylene.


Only this time there right. :thumbsup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Actually, PB is still around and going strong in many countries, just not the US. When something gets a certain amount of bad publicity, there will be no way to bring it back even if the kinks have been worked out. When you've lost the publics trust, it's nearly impossible to win it back.



Killertoiletspider said:


> They said the same thing about polybutylene.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

AAAAAAAAANNNNNNDDDDDDD.....THEY'RE OFF.............

Rounding the first bend is ******* with Ironranger right on his tail. Ron on the inside and Protec making a move on the inside....Bringing up the rear is IDGAF who seems to be bored with the entire race...


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Only this time there right. :thumbsup:



Time will tell.

I know threaded brass water pipe lasts over a hundred years, because I have seen proof.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

OK, went to the 2 links. What exactly do they have to do with this conversaion?



******* said:


> Yea, I am wrong huh?
> 
> Small facts:
> 
> ...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

How childish and irrelivent.



******* said:


> #8 for my fans
> 
> 
> GOOGLE DEFINE *PLUMB*
> ...


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Protech said:


> How childish and irrelivent.


Oh HUH?

haha,.......*PLUMB* is irrelevant?


DUDE, who trained you?

A plumbers job is not only to PROTECT THE NATION, BUT to do it in a *CLEAN* , SAFE , HEALTHY AND MOST OF ALL STRAIGHT ****COUGHS**** *which is another word for PLUMB*ING kinda way.

so yes, running pex like spaghetti though a house with no care in the world except how fast and cheap you can do it doesn't make you a plumber, sorry I could care less how many years or what kind of license you have,
*
TO P L U M B means being a plumber which means straight...*

So your saying that now running lines straight is no longer required?

WOW - now I know why the industry is dieing...........


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

see below



******* said:


> Oh HUH?
> 
> haha,.......*PLUMB* is irrelevant?
> 
> ...


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## pipes (Jun 24, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> AAAAAAAAANNNNNNDDDDDDD.....THEY'RE OFF.............
> 
> Rounding the first bend is ******* with Ironranger right on his tail. Ron on the inside and Protec making a move on the inside....Bringing up the rear is IDGAF who seems to be bored with the entire race...


 
LMFAO , nh we should meet up sometime , you are classic.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

See below



******* said:


> Oh here is some more from stupid non experienced, uneducated *******:
> 
> source:
> http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/restools/cu_brchrs/why_chse_cu.html
> ...


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Nice, now this is what I was waiting for 

Thanks protech 

This is what a forum is supposed to be !



But copper is still proper


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm going to wait till this one simmers down a bit to luke-warm. 


I see positive points on both sides. 


I'm just trying to figure out why Illinois, Kentucky, Ohio, New York to name a few all have aging copper systems heading towards 80 years old without failures. NONE 

And they are going to break 100 year margins soon enough. 

Plastic is "trying" to follow this regimen, but they keep getting tripped up by lawsuits. Hrmmm...


Hrmmm...must be something in the water, because the bad copper seems to be geography, not the norm. 


Hrmmm....


Hrmmmm....


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Roast Duck said:


> Plastic is "trying" to follow this regimen, but they keep getting tripped up by lawsuits. Hrmmm...


Oh come on Lawsuits about pex....NEVER ....YOUR A HATER, that couldnt be

Results *1* - *10* of about *35,800* for *pex lawsuits*. (*0.24* seconds)



*Class Action Lawsuit Filed Against Zurn Pex and Zurn Industries ...*

Aug 10, 2007 *...* Homeowners in Minnesota have filed a class action _lawsuit_ in federal district court against the manufacturer of residential plumbing systems *...*
newsblaze.com/story/2007081013504600001.pz/topstory.html - 27k - Cached - Similar pages - 
*Zurn Pex Faces Class Action Lawsuits*

May 17, 2008 *...* Some _lawsuits_ have already been filed, although as more consumers experience problems with their Zurn _Pex_ plumbing more _lawsuits_ will likely *...*
www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/10631/zurn-*pex*-brass-fitting-failures.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages - 
*Zurn Pex Inc. Defective Plumbing*

[BISMARCK TRIBUNE: ZURN _PEX LAWSUIT_], AUG-10-07: A class action _lawsuit_ has been filed by a Minnesota couple against Zurn _Pex_ after the _PEX_ plumbing system *...*
www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/zurn-*pex*-plumbing.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages - 
*Zurn Pex Faces Class Action Lawsuits*

May 17, 2008 *...* St. Paul, MN: Consumers who have Zurn _Pex_ plumbing systems in their homes may discover that the system is not all it was.
www.uslaw.com/law_blogs/?item=144530 - 39k - Cached - Similar pages - 
*PEX Lawsuit Information*

Overview of _PEX lawsuit_ information. Read a brief history of the company, problems leading to legal issues, and the status of any _PEX lawsuits_.
www.injury-settlement-guide.com/*pex*-*lawsuit*.html - 29k - Cached - Similar pages -


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Yup......seems like I WANT to install this kinda stuff in my customers homes


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

And then there are states like Florida, Nevada, Jersey that can't seem to get copper to last more than 10-20 years.



Roast Duck said:


> I'm going to wait till this one simmers down a bit to luke-warm.
> 
> 
> I see positive points on both sides.
> ...


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I wanna know why Rehau just up and took a dump, left without saying goodbye. 








<<< Just, just look at that! No reason or rhyme why, that is just WRONG.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Were those on the pipes or the BRASS fittings? And they were isolated to certain areas. I think when the dust settles, it will come out to be the water chemistry.



******* said:


> Oh come on Lawsuits about pex....NEVER ....YOUR A HATER, that couldnt be
> 
> Results *1* - *10* of about *35,800* for *pex lawsuits*. (*0.24* seconds)
> 
> ...


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I was really skeptical at first, when I began using pex. But now I use pex a lot and I like it. Maybe it will all fall apart someday, but I highly doubt it. I still use copper and brass a lot too. Brass threaded pipe and fittings are my favorite, I use it quite a bit still for prvs, water heaters, etc.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

service guy said:


> i was really skeptical at first, when I began using pex. But now I use pex a lot and I like it. Maybe it will all fall apart someday, but I highly doubt it.


Oh no you should not have told ******* that, he might say you can't plumb cause you use pex. 



******* said:


> EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

I have used both as well and the reason I joined this thread was to have a good debate so we could see all sides but as usual , yeA


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Protech said:


> And then there are states like Florida, Nevada, Jersey that can't seem to get copper to last more than 10-20 years.


 

Correct, 


And are you willing to admit that at one time those same states had copper piping systems that were installed years ago when that was the norm, that worked flawlessly until the demand on the water treatment systems...?


You and I both know that copper worked practically everywhere in the United States, until Water Treatment Plants started messing with the chemistry of the water, period.


And to that point, IF copper piping systems were used during that time, with fast reaction to the harmful reaction to what the piping is used for, it would be a banned product choice given its history of failure. 

Am I correct on this statement or is there a long list in these states that says copper is not to be used under any circumstances in regards to potable piping systems. I want to see it written in the code, then I want to know the PH LEVELS of the water coming out of the plant at it's highest level, wondering what else that aggressive water will be eating besides the copper.

Somebody with an open mind who's a heavy pex installer on this site is going to admit to this, I hope and I'll be the first to congratulate them for the understanding of the reasoning of why other products are used. 


Copper was a great thing for many reasons, one off the top of my head, not every person can do it, in relation to proper soldering. 

People knock a homeowner for sharkbiting an entire home together with PEX piping....


How much do you think he would of dropped with a plumber paid to do the job? 

Cash Acme isn't stupid you know; they understand that gammut of justification to beat the rap of the big bad plumber and his posse of charges. :laughing:


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> They said the same thing about polybutylene.


Really? Who is "they"? I was around and never used it, I don't remember anything about "they". You can't even compare pex with polybutylene, come on.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Time will tell.
> 
> I know threaded brass water pipe lasts over a hundred years, because I have seen proof.


How much more time will you need? I'm using Viega Pex, same product has been around for over 25 years. Viega is the largest manufaturer of pex in the world. 25 YEARS! Should we wait another five, ten, twenty?


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

******* said:


> I have used both as well and the reason I joined this thread was to have a good debate so we could see all sides but as usual , yeA


Oh, you joined this thread to have a good debate? Is this part of your good debate:



Originally Posted by *********  
_EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!_


_I'll agree with you again *******, you are an idiot. Your inexperience in the plumbing industry and with dealing with People shines brightly. Tell us again about all the different companies you have worked for in your short lived career. I think that speaks volumes about you.:blink:_


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Roast Duck said:


> I wanna know why Rehau just up and took a dump, left without saying goodbye.
> 
> 
> View attachment 937
> <<< Just, just look at that! No reason or rhyme why, that is just WRONG.


 
You do like to stir th pot duck. You know exactly why they left and it wasn't just pex was it? :yes:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Here's the bottom line. If you live in an area where the water trashes copper, you have 2 choices. pex or cpvc. I choose pex for what I think are obvious reasons.

Even if you take the water quality issue out of the equation, no one is going to pay 3 times more to have their house from copper to copper(with no warranty) when they can have pex with a 25 year warranty and for a fraction of the cost.

I don't completely have it out for copper. There are some things pex cannot do. If I'm doing a solar system(like tomorrow) I have to use copper. No plastic pipe is going to work in that application. The same goes for heat recovery AC systems. Or shower risers and stub outs. But if you come to my neck of the woods trying to sell copper potable water systems you're not going to make it.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

ironranger said:


> Oh, you joined this thread to have a good debate? Is this part of your good debate:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



RIGHT, I still stand behind what I said, ANYONE can plumb with PEX thats why all home centers recommend it.

I didn't say "If you use pex your not a plumber"

I just said its as easy as cut and crip, no skills required......

Do you contest that also?

Do you need skills to use a poly cutter?

You need skills to use a torch, and BTW , why does MY plumbing career keep coming up? I didnt make or invent pex or copper......isnt this an argument about material?

And fine, yea, I was the worst plumber ever with the shortest career, that STILL doesn't make pex good or hard to use........come on.

what next you gunna tell me I used to burn wood when I sweat pipe and thats why pex is better.

Leave me out of it and get to the facts jack!


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

oh btw, 

you SHOULD put a picture of yourself on the website here:

http://www.protechplumbing.biz/page3.html

Its better


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

That's a bit off topic but, I'm am planning on redoing the web site.



******* said:


> oh btw,
> 
> you SHOULD put a picture of yourself on the website here:
> 
> ...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Actually, I do have my picture on my site. And it's even relevant to this topic. http://www.realpagessites.com/protechplumbing/nss-folder/images/DSCN1285.JPG


heh heh I couldn't resist.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Pex is already the norm for plumbers across the United States, Canada and overseas. There will always be a few diehards just like there was when copper took over galvanized. Just like when pvc took over cast iron as the norm. That's ok, they will slowly fade off into the sunset just like the other old timers did. This industry is an ever changing one and doesn't wait up for those who lag behind. 
I'll be the first to admit it took me a couple years to use wirsbo when it first came out, frankly I wasn't ready to make the change even though I was one of the first to be certified the first year. After a while I saw all my fellow plumbing contractors loading their trucks with coils of wirsbo and it sort of scared me. I thought to myself if I don't get with it I'm done. Long story short I tried it, I liked it. Hey Mikey, he likes it!
Since then I've switched to Viega. I find it faster than wirsbo, easier to work with in this climate etc.
Looking at my schedule I have a small pex and pvc drain job for tomorrow. Today I sold two large pex repipes for next week. Guess what I'm ripping out? Copper.
Also I have yet to see even one sharkbite being used by a homeowner yet, let alone complete pex jobs with them, get real.
I have yet to see a single homeowner attempt their own pex job, sorry just haven't seen it. 
For residential, copper is out, Pex is in. I don't care what anyone says on a message board, just take a look at what almost all plumbing contractors are using these days, yes PEX. I've said this before, I doubt I will ever again repipe, or do a new home with copper, seriously. Im too tied up with the pex jobs (no pun intended) a large copper job now would seem silly to me.
I try keeping up with ongoing education and try taking whatever classes I can. I am a PHCC member and do use what they offer. Just got a notice today my local PHCC chapter will be offering the "Green Plumber" 32 hour certification class, I think I'll take it! Night all.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I have worked in homes with 80-year old copper, I have not worked in homes with 80-year old PEX. You guys need to be careful to not over-generalize with material failures. PB will fail due to water chemistry. Copper will fail due to water chemistry and soil conditions and PEX will fail due to water chemistry. All of the above will fail due to poor installation. This really has more to do with the environment the material is installed in not being compatible with the material. Just because you don't see failures in your neighborhood does not mean it is not happening.

Mark


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

******* said:


> RIGHT, I still stand behind what I said, ANYONE can plumb with PEX thats why all home centers recommend it.
> 
> I didn't say "If you use pex your not a plumber"
> 
> ...


That's not what you said, the fact is you said:
Originally Posted by *********  
_EXACTLY, pex is for people that cant plumb PERIOD!!!!!!_

_I also think you need to work on your communication skills. I picture you as extremely unsettled, a loose cannon. Best of luck to you, stay dry! LOL:jester:_


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

come on.......I think I communicate fine actually, which part don't you like?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

And as we round the clubhouse turn it's Ironranger and Roastduck neck and neck on the outside, Protec a half length back on the rail followed by ******* applying the whip..........


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

We have hundreds of repipe and remodel job that have a 25 year warranty on them. Said jobs jobs are 10 years old and older. Our stickers and magnets are all over the place. Permits were pulled. So if there was a failure, the lawyers would have been calling by now. 

The concept that because one material has been around longer than another, makes it a better material is false. And copper has had catastrophic failures. When houses start getting slab leaks at only 4 years old throughout whole neighborhoods I call that failure.

PEX is here to stay. If you don't like it, and copper stands up(for now) in your city’s water, then use it. As for me I'll be running pex.



ToUtahNow said:


> I have worked in homes with 80-year old copper, I have not worked in homes with 80-year old PEX. You guys need to be careful to not over-generalize with material failures. PB will fail due to water chemistry. Copper will fail due to water chemistry and soil conditions and PEX will fail due to water chemistry. All of the above will fail due to poor installation. This really has more to do with the environment the material is installed in not being compatible with the material. Just because you don't see failures in your neighborhood does not mean it is not happening.
> 
> Mark


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> I have worked in homes with 80-year old copper, I have not worked in homes with 80-year old PEX. You guys need to be careful to not over-generalize with material failures. PB will fail due to water chemistry. Copper will fail due to water chemistry and soil conditions and PEX will fail due to water chemistry. All of the above will fail due to poor installation. This really has more to do with the environment the material is installed in not being compatible with the material. Just because you don't see failures in your neighborhood does not mean it is not happening.
> 
> Mark


 

Words never better spoken than that, and "some" here fail to acknowledge this well known issue. I pointed that out in a recent post on this thread. 

If I go to Cincinnati, anywhere in those old buildings, skyscrapers...there'll be 80 year old copper that you can cut out, and it will look like the day you installed it, 80+ years ago.

Who holds the responsibility in these matters is a water treatment facility that isn't amping up the water chemistry for whatever reason.

But plastic pipe users don't want to throw blame at that point of view, they just want an excuse to install their product. 


I stay away from all plastic water line installations because I know someday they break, and it's always abrupt when it does. 

Why would I switch when the history of copper is so reliable in my area? My excuse to switch would be more for laziness than skill. 

Anyone want to challenge that thinking? Telling a forum of plumbers that it takes more skill to crimp-n-go with pex than the methodical actions of copper? 

When a house is piped in pex, you "STILL" have to use copper inside it, like the turnouts for the valves, the tub and shower risers, out of the water heater and the main water service. Why? because the piping has no stability to hold itself up along with numerous brass components, like a ball valve, turn out for a sillcock, a PRV. Otherwise you're running the risk of that piping stressing at a connection.

You have to strap the hell out of that piping as well; it is not self-supporting. Strapping copper is bad enough but I don't want to have to have a hammer drill in use every time I'm running water lines, or a saw, wood bell hangers and the like. You can get by with minimum support on copper.


I will give PEX credit where it was due...


When the class action lawsuits with plastic dip tubes came around, Sears/Kenmore was the only water heater mfg. I believe missed that liability because they have a patented RotoSwirl dip tube made of PEX. 

Even though they used State water heaters that were part of the class action, them using this unique design of dip tube guarded them from the liability, because it never failed.


I don't know how you plastic users can ignore the history of plastic failures; I have a 75 gallon A.O. Smith I'm replacing sometime next week that has lost the dip tube, and the pieces of that deteriorating plastic is scattering throughout the home. 

It's around the age those failures came about, and here it is 2009. Another victim of a product that had cheerleaders just like you all do on this site and others, only to find out that the *product did not live up to expectation.*

*Someone please find me code statutes pertaining to copper pipe restrictions in their state. And if you can't find them, why is it allowed to be installed when your water quality continually indicates it's aggressive nature? *

*It's not a piping choice problem, it's a water quality problem that is clearly the problem. *


Maybe this is why Kitech is a household name, along with Zurn at this point regarding once again, the same family of failures relating to the fittings, but "Oh no, it's not the pipe!" ??? Didn't the chemical leaching from the Kitech PEX over those brass fittings cause the dezincification process to increase? 

Why can't we get a Las Vegas Plumber who installed this wonderful product to speak about his mistake.

I guarantee you one thing, he praised it at one time, and went silent. Just like some of you who praised Rehau until they disappeared into the night, and trust me,

there's a lab test somewhere that through indicator lights flashing that really scared that manufacture. Big companies when the height of PEX pipe installations don't just up and leave for no reason.

There's plenty of money in this new piping and no matter how expensive it is, they can always lower the price to purge sales. 

What's awesome is that these types of threads on the internet get caught in the headlights of the cautious consumer, and since they already know that lawsuits commonly follow plastic piping systems given their history, 

the hesitation for some of us give credence to the fact that once again, not everyone wants to jump on that bus to simplicity and the fact that everyone else is doing it. My caution protects me from the liability of "trusting" a product who's timeline is on current date. 

Nothing to peer back at.

Why do these states condone pitiful water quality? That's a question for the knowledge above a plumber.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

I feel all beat up


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Protech said:


> We have hundreds of repipe and remodel job that have a 25 year warranty on them. Said jobs jobs are 10 years old and older. Our stickers and magnets are all over the place. Permits were pulled. So if there was a failure, the lawyers would have been calling by now.
> 
> The concept that because one material has been around longer than another, makes it a better material is false. And copper has had catastrophic failures. When houses start getting slab leaks at only 4 years old throughout whole neighborhoods I call that failure.
> 
> PEX is here to stay. If you don't like it, and copper stands up(for now) in your city’s water, then use it. As for me I'll be running pex.


I haven't got the slightest idea what in the World you are replying to. I never said PEX was bad and if anything I said all materials will fail when installed in environments which they are not compatible with. As for your warranty, your warranty is only as good as you are and once/if you are gone all that is left is the material warranty which usually is almost worthless. I posted I have worked in homes with 80-year old copper and you counter with you have homes with 10-year old PEX? I'm not sure why you think this is a competition, I was simply stating what I have seen over the last 35-years. I have seen failure in every material out there where it has been installed in incompatible environments. Once you get a little more experience under your belt and get out beyond your limited area you will see copper is compatible in the majority of the World. At the same time, PEX is compatible with a larger area but there are still parts of the Country that have chased PEX manufacturers out of business.

Mark


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Time will tell.
> 
> I know threaded brass water pipe lasts over a hundred years, because I have seen proof.


 I hope I live over a hundred years, and can still work!


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

******* said:


> Oh HUH?
> 
> haha,.......*PLUMB* is irrelevant?
> 
> ...


 I wanna be called a "horizontaler*, only with a 1/4 pitch.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

hehe, OK - np


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

See below.



Roast Duck said:


> Words never better spoken than that, and "some" here fail to acknowledge this well known issue. I pointed that out in a recent post on this thread.
> 
> If I go to Cincinnati, anywhere in those old buildings, skyscrapers...there'll be 80 year old copper that you can cut out, and it will look like the day you installed it, 80+ years ago.
> 
> ...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree, brass pipe lasts a really long time. I've never seen brass leak with the exception of casting defects. I know certain water types will de-zincify yellow brass. If cost was not an obstacle, and demolition in the case of repipes was not a problem, I would love to run brass. It's good stuff. I don't think anyone here will argue with that.



Killertoiletspider said:


> Time will tell.
> 
> I know threaded brass water pipe lasts over a hundred years, because I have seen proof.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

I will say that brass is great, too bad it sooooooooe xpensive


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

The only things I say copper has on pex are 
1) try using an unthawing machine on pex compared to copper
2) It looks alot better I don't care how neat you pex (pex can be made neat)

Thats why I'll always try to stub out water lines with copper I just use pex adapters for that and every furnace I pipe is done in Copper/B.I


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Commercial plumbing turning toward pex, sorry guys but it's true.. Did a pex job today for a guy who was here from Anchorage Alaska, he was here helping his folks out. He's a general contractor up in Alaska and guess what they're installing, yup PEX!
Commercial water piping, heating and snow melt. I knew it would just be a matter of time.

I also want to comment on the assumption that you have to use copper stub out's, you don't. You can use inserts with regular compression angle stops or you can use the pex angle stops. You certainly do not have to use copper and it's certainly not code either. The job I did today looked wonderful, neat, straight runs, perfect. I buy a lot of the Viega piping in straight 20 foot sticks, not coils for residential smaller repipes. It's just as neat as copper, and plumb! LOL


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ironranger said:


> Commercial plumbing turning toward pex, sorry guys but it's true.. Did a pex job today for a guy who was here from Anchorage Alaska, he was here helping his folks out. He's a general contractor up in Alaska and guess what they're installing, yup PEX!
> Commercial water piping, heating and snow melt. I knew it would just be a matter of time.



Alaska has issues that the rest of the states don't have, things are very different there, and PEX makes sense in their climate if it is true it can freeze without bursting. I own 10 acres not far from Kodiak and when I build there I will probably look into PEX just because of the climate.

As far as PEX in commercial applications, I doubt you will ever see it in a high rise until they can make a plastic that will not burn at any temp.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I am just so damn dissapointed that NOBODY has congratulated me for my almost inhuman restraint during this thread so far. :blink:

I have discovered meditation and relaxation Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I am just so damn dissapointed that NOBODY has congratulated me for my almost inhuman restraint during this thread so far. :blink:
> 
> I have discovered meditation and relaxation Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm.
> Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


 
Good job! lol, we all know how you feel about the subject.:whistling2:
The commercial contractor I spoke with today while installing pex at his folks home said that Pex has really caught on up there, copper is a thing of the past in most of his jobs. You can see what's happening, more and more contractors are requiring pex installations over copper. It's just a matter of time before copper is completely phased out for most installations. In my opinion it will be a specialty product specified for certain jobs in the not so far off future.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Congrats 

Sorry. I was busy arguing


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## PEXguru (Feb 12, 2009)

Wow, didn't expect to see that many replies in such a short timeframe.
Short intro:
I work at a radiant design company in NY. Over the years, we've worked on many projects and i got interested in PEX itself. Did a very good research on it and found out a lot on interesting things. I didn't limit the reasearch on just PEX. Valves, pumps, controls - you name it. It gets more interesting every day now.


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## PEXguru (Feb 12, 2009)

*Replies*

Now, the replies:

Marceliciouz:
Generally, PEX is used for either heating applications (such as radiant heated floors, baseboard connections, etc.) or plumbing applications (hot and cold water lines that deliver the water to your shower, kitchen faucet, etc.).
Put it simple, PEX (or, Crosslinked PolyEthylene) is plastic tubing which has many advantages of copper pipes, plus the flexibility that copper pipes don't have.

Airgap:
Just in order to dismiss any concerns you have, i will avoid promoting any particular companies or brands. My own concern, however, is that many contractors and DIY's are being misleaded by the information available today. If you doubt my relation to the industry, feel free to ask me any "PEX" question that you would know the answer to.

Nhmaster3015:
I'm certain it's not new. But to stir up the things a little, let me ask you this: which tankless w.h. do you prefer and why?

*******:
Since you dislike the PEX that much, tell us how you would use copper pipes (of soft copper tubing) to do a snowmelt system.
As for plumbing, let me ask you something - do you ever clean the system with a special solution after you finish the job. Why? Well, so that the customers wouldn't ask themselves why their water tastes like flux paste (this stuff stayes there for a while). 
Since you said that plastic hurts the Earth, consider this: a tremendous amount of energy us used to process copper. What do they use for producing energy - well, oil. What is PEX made out of? Yep, i'is oil. The difference only that there's much less oil burned when making PEX. So i would argue with you which one is more polluting.
-> copper.org is made for a sole purpose of promoting ... well you guessed it.
Zurn lawsuit - yeah, everybody knows already. There were also lawsuits with peanut putter, tomatoes and spinach, but we still eat them.

Killertoiletspider:
It is true - like other pipes, PEX may burst at freezing temperatures. Unfortunatelly, prevailing majority of contractors fail to adhere to basic rules of PEX plumbing. The next thing, you hear them complaining that water main line bursted, becasue this years' winter was colder than usual. My reply: dig the trench 1/2 ft deeper every time and don't forget to route the tubing in a larger diameter pipe.
Believe it or not, polybutylene is still sold in other countries. Both in form of tubing and fittings (yes, they make PB fittings too). The molecular structure and bunch of other things make PEX different from PB.
Also, concerning brass: your area might have nice water, that's why you never heard about problems with Dezincification. Ask they guys in Michigan and other midwest states. I'm sure they have their own opinion on brass. BTW, ever wondered why they started making bronze pumps?

Ironranger:
Like you said, PEX speaks for itself. If you get to know a particular brand and type of connection, it only gets easier from there.
Bottom line - the majic word "Homework" still works.
1st one at ya: Viega is a German company that bought Vanguard. Which means that whoever used Vanguard have noone to complain if they have any problems. Scary, huh? Don't matter - in a decade somebody will buy Viega and the story will go on. No need to worry - PEX is basically the same (except PEX-c, which i think is b.s.), the brand is just to make you feel safe. As for the $1000.00 tool - that's just another bicycle they invented to keep pumping money from you guys.
And that black PEX with color stripes - it looks so cool i would buy it myself if i wouldn't know its the same as any other PEX-b out there.
As for the 20ft sticks, sorry, just could keep myself from making a comment here - 

Protech:
Thanks for the post. I would appreciate if you throw some kind of a question at me, so i could keep my brains busy. Tell us which brand you use and why.

ToUtahNow:
Thanks for the useful post. 100% agree. But still, keep in mind that sneaky corporate guys found a way around this too.
Today we have DZR brass PEX fittings, polysulphone (PSF) PEX fitings, and i think i've even heard about the steel PEX fittings. In majority of cases, the #1 reason for failure is improper connection, not the chemistry. Again, skip the poor Zurn guys who are being cursed upon uptill today. The likely scenario is that the mixing machine that defines the amount of zinc in brass PEX fittings malfunctioned, which resulted in a defective alloy. Could happen to anyone (mfr). The rest of the heard seem to have learned the lesson quick and got their "quality control dept." under _control_.
WARRANTY: this piece of literature is the #1 on my list of funny things. For real, read it slowly and decrypt what's written in there. No one (mfr.) will pay if there's a way to avoid paying. And i mean no one at all (that includes mfrs for almost everything else).

Ron the plumber:
Which brand you use and why? Ever had problems with it?

Roast Duck:
Always keep in mind that particular brands (of everything) are sometimes very strong in particular territories. Some better and some are worse. For example, a very well-known brand of PEX from a big name Co. is not used in NY. Why? I guess they don't have the right rep. 
Copper is such a nickel-and-dime business (is and was), that a big part of it is still made in the US - it's heavy and expensive to transport, so financially, it often makes sense to manufacture it locally rather than import. 
Rehau, hmmm. I asked the same question at the trade show this year. They didn't comment, but said they're still in PEX business. Rumors???

Serviceguy:
Tell us which one you use and why.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a couple facts about PEX you just might wanna know:
1. Many of Chineese PEX manufacturers use HQ Germal machinery and genuine raw materials from co's like LG (yep, the one that makes TV's), while some U.S. manufacturers use Chineese machinery and Chineese raw materials.
2. There's basically no difference between brands. If it's the same type (A: Uponor/Wirsbo, Mr. PEX; B: Viega, Zurn), in the end its the same.
3. The A-PEX, which was always considered better than B-PEX, has a weaker molecular structure and can hold 10-20% less pressure than B.
4. Never try to repair a kink with a heat lamp. Majic just won't happen.
5. The most reliable connection method is.....copper crimp rings (which is also one of the oldest). Yes, the good ol' crimp tool is still #1. 
___________________________________________________________
The most important lesson of all times: do your own homework - it pays off.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

:sleep1:

So guru, who are you and what do you want? Are you an installer or are you a manufacturer's Rep? Some of what you say are spot on and some of the things you don't seem to know make me believe you are probably not a manufacturer's Rep.

Mark


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> :sleep1:
> 
> So guru, who are you and what do you want? Are you an installer or are you a manufacturer's Rep? Some of what you say are spot on and some of the things you don't seem to know make me believe you are probably not a manufacturer's Rep.
> 
> Mark


 

He's here for damage control. :laughing:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

The best tankless is the one left in the box. They are all a service call waiting to happen. But if a customer really insists we sell Rinnai.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

PEXguru said:


> Ron the plumber:
> Which brand you use and why? Ever had problems with it?


I use rehau pex, never had a problem with it, very flexible then the other types.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Guru,

Don't like these guys get to you, we all love a good debate, I welcome you aboard the PZ, a site where we are all pros, you will find this site different then others, no DIY'ers, GC's, handyman allowed to post here.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> :sleep1:
> 
> So guru, who are you and what do you want? Are you an installer or are you a manufacturer's Rep? Some of what you say are spot on and some of the things you don't seem to know make me believe you are probably not a manufacturer's Rep.
> 
> Mark


I second that , I am BORED:sleep1::sleep1::sleep1:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm glad to have another PEX user on the board. I'm getting sick of fighting all these battles on my own. See below:



PEXguru said:


> Now, the replies:
> 
> Marceliciouz:
> Generally, PEX is used for either heating applications (such as radiant heated floors, baseboard connections, etc.) or plumbing applications (hot and cold water lines that deliver the water to your shower, kitchen faucet, etc.).
> ...


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*Get ready folks, something big is coming, and it ain't gonna be pretty.*​


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

Roast Duck said:


> View attachment 940​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 is that mucks sister.:whistling2:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

mjcoleman said:


> is that mucks sister.:whistling2:


 

Maybe, we'll have to do an upper molar test to confirm.


----------



## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

Roast Duck said:


> Maybe, we'll have to do an upper molar test to confirm.


 you should pm him, see if shes single. damn shes hot.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

mjcoleman said:


> you should pm him, see if shes single. damn shes hot.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

*S**pread the Stupidity** 
* *Only in America ......**do drugstores make the sick walk all the way to the back of the store to get their prescriptions while healthy people can buy cigarettes at the front.*​ 

​ 

*Only in America **.....do people order double cheeseburgers, large fries, and a diet coke.
*
​ *Only in America .....do banks leave both doors open and then chain the pens to the counters.
*
​ *
Only in **America **.....do we leave cars worth thousands of dollars in the driveway and put our useless junk in the garage .
*
​ *
Only in **America**......**do we buy hot dogs in packages of ten and buns in packages of eight.** 
*


​ *
Only in America .....do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille lettering.
*
​ *EVER WONDER ...

Why the sun lightens our hair, but darkens
our skin?
*
​ *
Why women can't put on mascara with their mouth closed?
*
​ *Why don't you ever see the headline 'Psychic Wins Lottery'?
*
​ *Why is 'abbreviated' such a long word?
*
​ *Why is it that doctors call what they do 'practice'?
*
​ *Why is lemon juice made with artificial flavor, and dishwashing liquid made with real lemons?
*
​ *
Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?
*
​ *
Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?
*
​ *Why isn't there mouse-flavored cat food?
*
​ *
Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitoes?
*
​ *
Why do they sterilize the needle for** lethal injections?
*
​ *
You know that indestructible black box that is used on airplanes? Why don't they make the whole plane out of that stuff?!
*
​ *Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?
*
​ *
**Why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together?
*
​ *
If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
*
​ *
If flying is so safe,** why do they call the airp ort the terminal?
*
​ *Now that you've smiled at least once, it's your turn to spread the stupidity and send this to someone you want to bring a smile to (maybe even a chuckle)*


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Roast Duck said:


> YouTube - Stanley pukes



haha. OK NOW I believe there is everything on youtube :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

******* said:


> haha. OK NOW I believe there is everything on youtube :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


 
Oh I found one better than that one, and more graphic, but I got food coming here in a few.


I have to decide in the next 20 minutes whether I want to do a water heater today, or tomorrow. 

Got 4 calls on the board for monday, 1 more water heater which is going to be easy since I don't have to pull the old one out of the basement. YES!


----------



## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Roast Duck said:


> Oh I found one better than that one, and more graphic, but I got food coming here in a few.
> 
> 
> I have to decide in the next 20 minutes whether I want to do a water heater today, or tomorrow.
> ...



oH NICE!!!

Take the day off


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

******* said:


> oH NICE!!!
> 
> Take the day off


 
I wish, but I can't. 


I got two days I'm going to lose *thur/fri* to continuing education classes.

The way I'm spending money lately, don't have any choices.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Bummer 

Have an awesome day then, and think of the wet head when your on the job,

I will miss you buddy 

Happy VALENTINES 

mAHEHWHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAAHAH!~!!


----------



## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

This same discussion seems to come up on all forums every so often.

Yes, I like PEX and avoid copper when I can. I like it for tub & shower risers. I've been plumbing since 1966 and have run many thousands of feet of copper.

I keep posting that my own house is plumbed with polybutylene. I plumbed quite a number of houses with polybutylene and have never had a call-back. I still run into a lot of houses plumbed in polybutylene and in fact was working in one yesterday. No problems whatsoever. The last time I worked there, and it was originally plumbed by others, was 1998.

I don't expect to be replacing my piping system any time soon. Our water is clean enough that chlorine is not needed. 

PEX, like copper, only looks sloppy if it is installed in a sloppy manner. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And it isn't always cheap - a manifold system has perhaps 1,500 feet of pipe where copper with tees would only use a few hundred, and maniblocks aren't cheap.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Roast Duck said:


> View attachment 940​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice earrings!!


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

airgap said:


> Nice earrings!!


 
She's going to shave her unibrow tonight before we go out to eat. :laughing:


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Then she is stopping by my place


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Ok back on topic, Pex rules.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Pex sucks, Back on Topic


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## brad7596 (Nov 1, 2008)

my question is of all these brands on the market how many will be around to even fulfil the warranties they offer. i think pex is fine but i see a lot of places where it is abused because it was cheaper or easier to do. i think on older suburbs i would stick with copper, on new work pex is fine. i think a house should be all one or the other not a mix n match of both.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I think that if you have to use a tempering valve to mix hot and cold, they need pex pipe that is red and blue stripped from the outlet side of the valve. So it can be identified easily. :laughing:


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## brad7596 (Nov 1, 2008)

it is very easy to cross connect hot cold and tempered pipework with pex. my trick is i paint brass fittings red for hot, yellow for tempered. i learnt this the hard way on one job.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

why not just use red and blue pex?


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

OH ALSO.......lets say Pex is awesome.

When you install it do you make it plumb?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Ge red, white and blue. Your basement can look like an American Flag.:laughing:


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Ge red, white and blue. Your basement can look like an American Flag.:laughing:



There you go:

Pex: "The Only Choice for the American Plumber"

Show your red, white and Blue!!

I can see the ad copy now :laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Most people(including myself) run red for hot, blue for cold, and white for tepid. That's how we do it round here for colored systems. 



brad7596 said:


> it is very easy to cross connect hot cold and tempered pipework with pex. my trick is i paint brass fittings red for hot, yellow for tempered. i learnt this the hard way on one job.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

I spray paint my copper pipe blue and red so I can remember which is which , I got this idea when pex came out 

Before then, I just dont now how I ever plumbed .......


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

I've been running all my Viega in black, hot or cold. Recently I did buy some of the red and blue from Viega for a small job. It really turned out nice, the customer thought it was the greatest thing! 
Viega also makes Fostapex which is fully dimensioned with additional aluminum outer layers to provide form and stability. It will hold it's shape when you bend it, great for under slab or even exposed in a basement. I've used a lot of Fostapex and really like it. I sell it as an upgrade.
Some of you might not know it but Viega is also the maker of the ProPress fittings used with copper. I don't own the press but sure like the idea, just can't justify the cost for what little use I would get out of it.


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## brad7596 (Nov 1, 2008)

in australia we dont have different colour piping thus rehau is all black. thats why i paint the brass, ive been caught out before. in copper we have plain and pre lagged copper for hot so its easy to differentiate. we now have the requirement due to a drought to run rainwater to tiolets and laundry on all new construction. rehau make a green pipe and a grey for hydronic heating.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

brad7596 said:


> we now have the requirement due to a drought to run rainwater to tiolets and laundry on all new construction.


Interesting so where does the rainwater come from if your in a drought? What if there in no rainwater, how do the toilet and laundries operate, is there a secondary source for water supply?


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## brad7596 (Nov 1, 2008)

yes all new constructions have to have a r/water tank for this purpose. you can buy pumps with change over devices that work off a float. thus you hook mains and r/water to the changeover and let the computer work it out. the other way is to install two inlet valves in the cistern off seperate mini stops, thus you need to do a manual changeover. we have been in drought for over 10yrs you might have seen the bushfires that devestatd our state on the news. the worst disaster in our history


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

******* said:


> Yea, I am wrong huh?
> 
> Small facts:
> 
> ...


 Is your plumbing van a Prius?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

My van is wind powered. Top secret, hush hush. :thumbsup:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

plumb4fun said:


> Is your plumbing van a Prius?


NICE ONE:thumbsup:


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

But no one ever hit on the price. While there definitely are some good points to copper, speed of install and price blow copper out of the water.


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## CaptainBob (Jan 3, 2011)

Wow, bumped this from...just about 6 years ago?

Yes no one did mention price...I figure it costs about twice as much to do a job in copper than it does Uponor.

I have always found it interesting the guys that bash using pex for water piping don't have any problem using PVC for drain, waste and vent...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

CaptainBob said:


> Wow, bumped this from...just about 6 years ago?
> 
> Yes no one did mention price...I figure it costs about twice as much to do a job in copper than it does Uponor.
> 
> I have always found it interesting the guys that bash using pex for water piping don't have any problem using PVC for drain, waste and vent...



PVC doesn't come on a 100' roll


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