# Do you guys like Heat Pump water heaters?



## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

I've installed 3 now. Got great feed back from all three clients. I really push them to people stuck with oil, & tankelss coils. I always suggest adding a standard superstor GL50 to the tankless coil. But when I have a client that wants to stay away from traditional storage and indirect storage tanks/ want to enter the "Green movement." I suggest the heat pump water heater. For people with tankless coils, oil, no propane service available. I think the heat pump is best case to use them. 

What do you guys think?


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

Almost forget. They are great for people stuck with ALL Electric homes as well!!


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Here's a link as to why an intro is important. I'm sure once you read it and decide to post an intro everyone will be happy to welcome you and exchange useful info . http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/


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## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

When and if he gets back to us, there's also the rheem marathon plastic tank electric heater to look into

As for heat pumps, I've yet to install one, though I'd like to


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

Ok sorry everyone. I gotta little intro whipped up. Where do I post it?


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/

here


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Jay S. said:


> I've installed 3 now. Got great feed back from all three clients. I really push them to people stuck with oil, & tankelss coils. I always suggest adding a standard superstor GL50 to the tankless coil. But when I have a client that wants to stay away from traditional storage and indirect storage tanks/ want to enter the "Green movement." I suggest the heat pump water heater. For people with tankless coils, oil, no propane service available. I think the heat pump is best case to use them.
> 
> What do you guys think?


 I haven't installed one yet but im interested. Does it cool of the area the heater is installed in?


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## MDgirl400 (Aug 6, 2011)

cityplumbing said:


> Here's a link as to why an intro is important. I'm sure once you read it and decide to post an intro everyone will be happy to welcome you and exchange useful info . http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/


 
Dear God dont go there, they will EAT YOU!


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## MDgirl400 (Aug 6, 2011)

besides who wrote that rule? 

Interesting thread I wont hi-jack it. I promise. Gonna just sit here and learn.....

:thumbup:

i was paid to be here...


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## MDgirl400 (Aug 6, 2011)

Jay S. said:


> Ok sorry everyone. I gotta little intro whipped up. Where do I post it?


 
they are actually there ready to hang you right now, I am not sure who made this ritual of theirs but I will go into history warning unsuspecting victims like me and you.

RUN LIKE YOUR HAIR IS ON FIRE!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I've worked on a few of the early heat pump water heaters that were installed as part of the Northeast Utilities HotShot Testing Program that went on through the late 90's and early 2000 years....

There is another thread here with some info in it...

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/new-ge-water-heater-7195/

In our neck of the woods you will see efficient usage of the heat pump for about 60% of the year....


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

MDgirl400 said:


> they are actually there ready to hang you right now, I am not sure who made this ritual of theirs but I will go into history warning unsuspecting victims like me and you.
> 
> RUN LIKE YOUR HAIR IS ON FIRE!


LOL. yeah. I'm getting some heat on another thread right now.


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I've worked on a few of the early heat pump water heaters that were installed as part of the Northeast Utilities HotShot Testing Program that went on through the late 90's and early 2000 years....
> 
> There is another thread here with some info in it...
> 
> ...


I really like them. They produce more hot water than traditional gas and electric water heaters, and use about 300 bucks of electricity per year in my area (second highest rates in America) The added benefit of the dehumidifier is a GREAT selling point. Everyone hates emptying the damn dehumidifier in the basement. A heat pump heater does that for you automatically with the help of a trusty condensate pump. 

I spent a couple hundred hours putting all the info about the new heat pump water heaters on the market as I could find over the past year. Check it out if you have nothing better to do. http://www.waterheatinginfo.com/category/heat-pump-water-heaters/


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I missed your intro thread, better late than never.

Welcome to PZ!


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

PlumbCrazy said:


> I missed your intro thread, better late than never.
> 
> Welcome to PZ!


Thanks man- Yeah. I'll mostly be hanging here in the Green plumbing thread. 
I have a brain defect for water heaters.
Like Rain Man.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Speaking of green, are consumers in your area willing to buy into it? If so, are they willing to pay a premium to go green?

It's been my experience that consumers will only go green if you can save them some green. They do not seem willing to pay more to save the earth.

FWIW, I fall into this category.


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

Well I don't bother trying to sell a tankless water heaters to homeowners with gas water heaters. The ROI is usually in the 20 year rage going from gas traditional water heater to a gas tankless. So I only suggest tankelss' for natural gas applications in condos/ townhouses for space saving reasons. I sold a couple Naviens just for space saving in condos. My pitch here if I know the condo owner's eyes light up when I say Extra Space. "Having a contractor build you a new closet is more than this tankless water heater." and "Getting a tankless installed here will be like getting a new closet, endless hot water, all while saving you some money on your gas bill" _ Replacing a 50-or 75 gallon powervent for a wall hung tankless makes a big difference for homes desperate for closet space. A nice job here usually means a few bikes and patio furniture have a dry place to be stored some where._

I really pitch the Green options for people stuck with All Oil, or All Electric homes. (About half the homes in CT lack natural gas service)

_So this is what I say to oil water heater owners. _
"Ok Joe, you have a either a 30 or 50 gallon oil fired water heater your spending 2-3K for the new installation no matter how you slice it. Why not put an additional 1 -1,500 into a propane tankless water heater and save thousands of dollars over the next 2 decades? Would you like to improve the quality of your homes air? How about save your chimney a bunch of ware and tare. Not to mention show you kids you're doing something great for the environment." Then I say something like, "Joe, withe the money you're going to be save you could go on mini vacation every other year" 

_What I say to electric water heater owners. _
"You have a electric water heater, sure the new installed is under 1000 bucks and I'm happy to install it for you. But think about this for a minute. It might only last 10-12 years these days and it will defiantly cost a ton of money to run. Are you happy with you electrical bill? No of course not. Why not spend an additional 1,500 and go with a heat pump water heater, and save thousands over the next 2 decades, and enjoy dehumidified air in your basement! Heat pump water heaters also produce more hot water that traditional electric water heaters and cost less than half to run. (Then I add something like, "you know, it seems like utility rates seem to raise every other year, so a heat pump will help you save even more down the road") _ I don't even bother saying the words rebate or tax credit. It just adds to the homeowners information gathering process, and not the YES please install that thing please, process. _

I could go on here forever my friend. 
They are easy to sell to all Electric & all Oil homeowners when you are armed with enough info. I know water heaters, and I know how to talk to people.


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

But yeah. Swapping out a 30 gallon oil fired water heater in an hour and making a grand isn't bad either. lol. Honestly the green products take more time and have less profit margins when you calculate the hours put into "green" installations. I don't care what my clients wants, as long as they have me do the installation. (Just between us) In most cases I'd much rather swap out a old water heater for a new one. I do feel obligated to educate my Oil & Electric clients about the different options, then install what they tell me.


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

Just sold an Rheem HP50 for Thursday morning. 

Anyone want to see any particular pictures during the installation? I'll take and repost them if anyone has a request. Technical info, anything from the installation manual, etc. let me know.


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## b4cz28 (Aug 14, 2011)

Jay S. said:


> Just sold an Rheem HP50 for Thursday morning.
> 
> Anyone want to see any particular pictures during the installation? I'll take and repost them if anyone has a request. Technical info, anything from the installation manual, etc. let me know.


 
sure do


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

The install went great. 3 hours altogether and we took our time. 

I took a bunch of pics. How do you post them? Image generator like photobucket?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

You can either attach them using the paperclip button up by the smileys or, use your photobucket account and the img code.

If you are going to put text between the pics use photobucket...


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## EmpireClocks (Dec 16, 2011)

*GL-50 Superstor storage tank*

I am installing a GL50 storage tank to my gas tankless boiler. Do I need a seperate circulator pump for the tank? Already obviously have a circulator installed on the boiler, just wasnt sure if i needed a second for the tank. thanks


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## incarnatopnh (Feb 1, 2011)

EmpireClocks said:


> I am installing a GL50 storage tank to my gas tankless boiler. Do I need a seperate circulator pump for the tank? Already obviously have a circulator installed on the boiler, just wasnt sure if i needed a second for the tank. thanks


I would recommend calling a licensed plumber. They will be able to set the system up properly.


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

incarnatopnh said:


> I would recommend calling a licensed plumber. They will be able to set the system up properly.


Zing! :thumbsup:


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Jay you make want to buy one from you.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Just had the A.O. Smith bus come by our Ferguson supply house on Friday. They are decked out with all their latest and greatest water heaters. 

I must admit their heat pump EWH was pretty impressive. Not to mention that one of our electric utility providers is giving a $700 rebate if home owners switch to a heat pump EWH. A.O Smith sells a 60 gallon and 80 gallon. 
http://www.hotwater.com/water-heaters/residential/hybrid/voltex/ 

10 year warranty. If the heat pump fails for any reason they will replace the whole heat pump. Or so they say.

With the rebate we are talking about a $350 to $400 water heater from the supply house.

In my area, they said "high efficiency" mode (or heat pump only) the annual electric bill would be right at $200. Their heat pump only works in temps from 49 F degrees to 109 F degrees. But with the ease of the LCD display, you can flip the mode from heat pump straight to conventional elements.

The technology just gets better & better/ cheaper & cheaper.


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

Been meaning to post some HP-50 pics. So here we go. This is from our most recent installation. We replaced a 80 gallon electric water heater with a Rheem HP-50. The basement is now dry & cool year round and enjoy a 50% savings on the water heating expenses. $400 tax credit. 










First things first, you Can Not lay heat pump water heaters on their sides. 
Not that you should lay any water heater on it's side, the heat pump's coolant should stay upright. If the lay it down you will have a prolonged delay before the unit will kick on. (at least 45 minutes) 










The HP-50 is around 7 feet tall in the box, which includes a pallet. 


















The old leaking 80 gallon electric 










In nice and neat. 










Don't forget about the condensate! 










The electrical tie in is a bit of a pain in the ass. Make sure you have enough slack on the electrical line/ do not cut any length back until you are 100% sure you have enough slack!

Easy sell. 
"Oh you have an electric water heater, sure you can have another old fashion- efficient one for $1,000 or you can save a small fortune with a heat pump water heater" "Also the heat pump heater consumes all the moisture in the air during it's operation, so it's basically like getting a commercial size dehumidifier for free" 

I know you guys think this might sound like a fairy tale but it's the truth. Over here in Connecticut, (2nd highest electrical rates) medium to large families are spending MIN $600 a year, big families hundreds more. 

The heat pump costs half that amount to run. Moving heat from one place to another is more than twice as efficient as heating water with electric elements. The HP-50 comes with a 10 year factory warranty, upgraded anode rods & dip tub. The heat pump on the HP-50 is removable/ replaceable, without removing the water heater's pumping (Unlike the GE Geospring, which the heat pump is not removable/ the entire water heater must be replaced if a problem with heat pump.) 

I know A.O smith has a heat pump water heater called the Voltex here are the other ones I know of:
*Heat Pump water heater manufacturers & brand names * 
 GE Geospring



Rheem - HP-50

 A.O Smith - Voltex

 State - Premier

 GE - Geospring

 Whilpool - hybrid
Stiebel Eltron - Accelera 300
American - hybrid 
I have installed about a dozen Rheem HP-50's & 1 GE geospring so far. No complaints on any of them, no call backs, in fact 2 homeowners when out of there way to call in amazement how much money they were savings. ($40 a month is average savings in my area) We talking about 480 dollars savings PER YEAR from the two clients that gave me feedback. If these things last 15 years were talking about more than enough money to justify the intial cost. The 1st HP-50 I installed was Jan of 2009. I was told we bought & installed the 1st one in CT. 

If you want to know more about heat pump water heaters I have a Sh*t ton of info on my site over here. 
http://www.waterheatinginfo.com/category/heat-pump-water-heaters/


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

6th Density said:


> Just had the A.O. Smith bus come by our Ferguson supply house on Friday. They are decked out with all their latest and greatest water heaters.
> 
> I must admit their heat pump EWH was pretty impressive. Not to mention that one of our electric utility providers is giving a $700 rebate if home owners switch to a heat pump EWH.


I'd look into the Stiebel Eltron Accelera 300 in your area as the better choice. The AO Smith, GE, and Rheem units place a higher emphasis on resistance heating which is needed for more northern climates. The Stiebel Eltron Accelera 300 only has a 1750 watt resistance element and relies more on the heat pump to provide the heating which makes it better suited and more efficient in your climate...


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

Why wouldn't you move the water heater when replacing so that the homeowner can have the washer and dryer next to each other like normal?


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## Jay S. (Aug 9, 2011)

ZL700 said:


> Why wouldn't you move the water heater when replacing so that the homeowner can have the washer and dryer next to each other like normal?


That's a great point. 

Would have been nice to move it to the right but there was no room height wise. It to the left would have been nicer but there was no slack on the electrical line to do that.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

We installed three GE hybrids...two in a school one residential...beautiful thing


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I really don't think is the greatest thing

I don't know how much you guys know about heat pumps or ac but here it goes

First question 

Where do you guys think this hwt with the heat pump getting it's heat from????

Answer ... It taking it from the inside heat of the house

This is a air to water heat pump.... Where the heat from the air is transferred to the water using refrigerant, compressor, condenser and evap coils

Not such a bad thing if it was the summer and already had a heat load you need to get rid of but in the winter it not such a great product

It would be a much better product if the evaporator was outside. However if the out door temp dropped to low the heat pump would not be efficient ...

So in my opinion it a low tech piece of equipment....

It would be a lot better if it was a split system... But then most plumbers would not be able to install them....

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## judy (May 13, 2012)

Heat pumps was usually used for space conditioning. However, it is already been used nowadays as an electric water heater. This yields to great savings in money and energy.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Does anyone know of any shorter fat versions of these? My basement is only 6 ft tall. I looked into them a while back and I could only find the tall ones. I would love to put one in my basement I run a dehumidifier year round as well as an 80 gallon electric as far as heat loss from the basement it isn't going to be a problem for me it's always to warm in the summer and in the winter I have a duct blowing woodheated air down there and it stays 80+ in my basement.

Also how is the recovery time if you lock out the elements? The way I understand it the elements kick in if needed unles you lock them out.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

judy said:


> Heat pumps was usually used for space conditioning. However, it is already been used nowadays as an electric water heater. This yields to great savings in money and energy.


A new lady plumber!???!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Make your own

Do you have an air conditioner?

Install a desuperheater on it and you get free hot water when you are using your AC

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Make your own
> 
> Do you have an air conditioner?
> 
> ...


My ac is about as far from the water heater as it can be. Also I am a plumber and while I have some knowledge of other trades the above is outta my league!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

judy said:


> Heat pumps was usually used for space conditioning. However, it is already been used nowadays as an electric water heater. This yields to great savings in money and energy.


Hey Judy

It is customary at PZ to Go to the introduction section and tell us about yourself

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## RossThePlumber (Aug 24, 2009)

sikxsevn said:


> When and if he gets back to us, there's also the rheem marathon plastic tank electric heater to look into
> 
> As for heat pumps, I've yet to install one, though I'd like to


I installed one of those Rheem Marathon plastic tank electric water heaters. The owner had purchased it himself for $1200. I thought it was brilliant. It seemed to be made very well so that the tank would never rust or break down. Time will tell however as far as Hot water and plastic goes...Will it get brittle or will it stay in tact ??


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> I really don't think is the greatest thing
> 
> I don't know how much you guys know about heat pumps or ac but here it goes
> 
> ...


This is where the idea came from. It was initially a commerce product. Never heard about it being out for years....there is a reason and you already gave many of them. It is all smoke and mirrors to say it is more environmentally friendly. More often than not the heat pump mode will not be enough to satisfy the demand so you are left with an over priced electric heater.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> My ac is about as far from the water heater as it can be. Also I am a plumber and while I have some knowledge of other trades the above is outta my league!



Not so bro. There is a filter to take out/clean. There is a condensate drain to keep clear. That is it. If there is a refrigerant problem they (WH Engineers) have told me it would be cheaper to swap it out. The electrical is also very simple. I think you would be surprised if you could find someone that knows the system to point out a few things rather than the clowns trying to sell them. The reps are as clueless as the supply houses. They can quote you the brochure and then take your questions down to "get back to you".


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

clevegoddard said:


> The least pricey way to heat domestic hot water is with natural gas. As compared to an electric-resistance water heater, the main advantage of a heat-pump water heater is energy efficiency. Heat-pump water heaters scavenge heat from ambient air, so cooling the space where it is located.


 Who are you??? Why a pressure washer here???


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

No, no, no, too much to go wrong- just like effin tankless shoit


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

The feedback I get is that they are noisy. You can hear that compressor running through the entire house. I've installed one and that's it for me. I don't like them. Our salesman said manufacturers lowered the prices on them because people weren't buying them due to the noise issue.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> The feedback I get is that they are noisy. You can hear that compressor running through the entire house. I've installed one and that's it for me. I don't like them. Our salesman said manufacturers lowered the prices on them because people weren't buying them due to the noise issue.


It's because it's a stupid idea ... 

They tried promoting it like it was something new and fabulous ... It might be to a regular plumber 

The fact is for the amount of btu required to raise a the temp of a HWT requires sufficient btu to accomplish this ...

1 btu to raise 1lb of water 1 deg f in 1 hour 

1 ton system is 12,000 btu 

To be equivalent to a regular 40 gallon tank you would need 3 tons 

Might gain some heat from the compressor itself but not enough to make it a inexpensive operation ...

3 ton is 240 at 30 amps ...

Compare that to a regular electric HWT or gas and IMO it is not worth any type of overall savings


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> The feedback I get is that they are noisy. You can hear that compressor running through the entire house. I've installed one and that's it for me. I don't like them. Our salesman said manufacturers lowered the prices on them because people weren't buying them due to the noise issue.


Same here. Talked to a friend that had one installed. His wife made him put it on the conventional mode (with elements) because she couldn't stand the noise. The water heater was installed in the basement. She could here it in the kitchen on the first floor and wouldn't have it. Talk about a let down. Our local electric company gives around $750.00 dollar rebate if you buy a heat pump WH. So the cost of the unit is not too much more than a standard conventional one. I've seen people happy with them. But they always have them installed in the garage. I guess it's really up to the customers preference, and as long as you inform them of the negatives you can always at least say "I told you so."


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## truckman5000 (Jul 14, 2013)

i have one in my house 80 gall.. Although the rebates payed me 100 bucks to install it. After my cost.

Pros. i lowered my bill 30$ a month,dehumidifies the basement. 

This works in my home because its a 3k sq. ft. and the heater is in the garage end of the basement.
I like it because if the heat pump gives out i can use elements, its a glass lined unit.

I love heat pumps, i have the water heater and 3 heat pump a/c's in my home and i pay half my neighbor does a year with oil, and i get cooling.


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