# RO systems?



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I might have brought this up before, if I did, I can’t find it....

As you all know I like to brew, and RO is a blank slate for building your water profile. I’ve installed a few under sink units that I get from the supply house and they seem to be good. Never had a complaint or back call. Even some customer supplied ones from the box store. Never any complaints there either. The box store is about $100 less. I haven’t compared the specs. 

But I got to thinking, it would be nice if my whole house was on RO. We have really crappy water in my town. I haven’t sent in a sample to be tested yet, but it’s bad. Bought one of those Zero Water filters that come with a PPM tester. IIRC, it was about 440ppm, city water. If I didn’t know better, I’d think they just pump water from the Grand River into the towers....

If I decide to go with a whole house RO system, what am I looking at, besides cost and what unit? My house is copper, galvanized, and pex. Any concerns like when you switch, like what introducing a softener to old galvanized and old fixtures? Since my water is so sh!tty to begin with I plan on a sediment filter and whole house filter, but what about a softener? Would that be beneficial or a waste of money before an RO?

Anything else I should consider? If I go whole house? I don’t think my SH carries them which leads me to the internet. Prices seem to range from $500-2k.

Moen vs. Grohe....?


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## PlumbusC37 (Oct 19, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> I might have brought this up before, if I did, I can’t find it....
> 
> As you all know I like to brew, and RO is a blank slate for building your water profile. I’ve installed a few under sink units that I get from the supply house and they seem to be good. Never had a complaint or back call. Even some customer supplied ones from the box store. Never any complaints there either. The box store is about $100 less. I haven’t compared the specs.
> 
> ...




First off let me start by saying I do zero residential work. Im usually doing medical facilities and they all seem to stick with a pentair ro system with a grundfos pump. Another company plumbs the ro equipment , we just leave them a fitting after the backflow. Pentair does make residential systems so I'm assuming if pentair is good for medical , its good for your home. Thats my two cents , its probably worthless hahaha.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I'm not an expert but someone told me, it's going to be useless and expensive to filter water for washing clothes, taking showers and flushing the toilet. It should be reserved for drinking water unless you have unlimited budget.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

PlumbusC37 said:


> First off let me start by saying I do zero residential work. Im usually doing medical facilities and they all seem to stick with a pentair ro system with a grundfos pump. Another company plumbs the ro equipment , we just leave them a fitting after the backflow. Pentair does make residential systems so I'm assuming if pentair is good for medical , its good for your home. Thats my two cents , its probably worthless hahaha.


I’ll look at Pentair! Thanks!

About two and a half years ago we plumbed a coffee shop and installed an RO system. I completed the owner on her nice looking RO system. She said “thanks! It cost more than all the trades combined!” Then we had to take her to court to get paid.

Six months later she called to ask us to plumb her third location!:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

I don’t want to go that big!


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango said:


> I'm not an expert but someone told me, it's going to be useless and expensive to filter water for washing clothes, taking showers and flushing the toilet. It should be reserved for drinking water unless you have unlimited budget.


Oh yeah, basically just sinks, maybe the showers too. I have to soak my shower heads in CLR every 3-4 months. Treat everything like a hard line.


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## PlumbusC37 (Oct 19, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> Tango said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not an expert but someone told me, it's going to be useless and expensive to filter water for washing clothes, taking showers and flushing the toilet. It should be reserved for drinking water unless you have unlimited budget.
> ...



Ive heard of people running a cold line after the softener to an outside hose bib to be able to wash the car and not have hard water stains all over it.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

PlumbusC37 said:


> Ive heard of people running a cold line after the softener to an outside hose bib to be able to wash the car and not have hard water stains all over it.


Very true, but bad for the grass and plants. I just take it to the car wash.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

I’ve heard that RO systems are crap, in general. I know nothing about them, but some ppl think it’s worse then unfiltered water.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Logtec said:


> I’ve heard that RO systems are crap, in general. I know nothing about them, but some ppl think it’s worse then unfiltered water.


In some ways it is worse. But like I said, it’s a good blank slate to build your water profile. Adding sulfates and other nutrients to build taste and mouthfeel is healthier than just RO. I mistakenly tried to build a water profile with distilled water early on, didn’t work out as well. I’m not really sure why yet, but once I took some advice to switch to RO my water is so much better.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> In some ways it is worse. But like I said, it’s a good blank slate to build your water profile. Adding sulfates and other nutrients to build taste and mouthfeel is healthier than just RO. I mistakenly tried to build a water profile with distilled water early on, didn’t work out as well. I’m not really sure why yet, but once I took some advice to switch to RO my water is so much better.



how do you get your water? well or public supply?


heres interesting links to read..sounds like you need a softener more than a filter, at least for the whole house...


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjuid-_2_HmAhWGq1kKHdd0Cc4QFjAKegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fhealthywater%2Fdrinking%2Fhome-water-treatment%2Fwater-filters%2Fstep3.html&usg=AOvVaw0sNGpguJT1xYEUGjOHnX6w


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ltration.htm&usg=AOvVaw3pUfU2WsnlPuN9on-8tTh4


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> Logtec said:
> 
> 
> > I’ve heard that RO systems are crap, in general. I know nothing about them, but some ppl think it’s worse then unfiltered water.
> ...


Years ago I did some indoor gardening, for a while I would get RO water from a hydroponic store. 
What a pain it was lugging the jugs Of water back and forth. I don’t know if it made a dif, but apparently the fertilizer mixed better into the RO water vs distilled water.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

I do quite a bit of water treatment and to date have never installed a whole house unit.
Keep in mind that 90% of my customers are on well water and you can not have iron in the water unless treated.
The better units waste considerably less water than good ones, some of the cheaper units are 2-1 even 3-1 i.e. 2 gallons filtered for one gallon of treated.
point of use is the way to go or dedicated cold lines to lav,kitchen,ice maker etc.
my .0.2


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Sights,


If you are on a city supply look into chloramines that are used to treat the city supply, pretty interesting and eye opening.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

City water. Yes many people have softeners in this town, our water is that bad. However if you brew with softened water every batch will have some really bad off flavors. 

My club is focused on education. Every month we have a beer of the month. Two commercial controls and compare them to home brew of that style using BJCP guidelines. We also have a small class every month. We had two different classes last year about water profile and off flavors caused by using different types of water.


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## Paulie B (Oct 22, 2011)

I just quoted a whole house RO system for a customer who's too close to the ocean and has high sodium in there well. My cost for the materials was over $15,000. And I think it's was a 4-1 waste ratio. Needless to say we're going to bury a 2000 gallon tank in the ground and they will have water trucked in. But this is the second one I've had quoted. The last one was for high nitrates. Around the same cost just for material. I could dig around and find the slip if you want to see what the system would include

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Paulie B said:


> I just quoted a whole house RO system for a customer who's too close to the ocean and has high sodium in there well. My cost for the materials was over $15,000. And I think it's was a 4-1 waste ratio. Needless to say we're going to bury a 2000 gallon tank in the ground and they will have water trucked in. But this is the second one I've had quoted. The last one was for high nitrates. Around the same cost just for material. I could dig around and find the slip if you want to see what the system would include
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Yeah, $15k is a bit steep, lol!

Probably 7 years ago my former Master and I gat called out to his in-laws house for low water pressure. They are on a well outside of town. All copper. We replaced the whole house filter, softener and installed an iron curtain. The iron curtain was something like $8k alone!

Amazing how much water treatment can cost!


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

PLUMB TIME said:


> I do quite a bit of water treatment and to date have never installed a whole house unit.
> Keep in mind that 90% of my customers are on well water and you can not have iron in the water unless treated.
> The better units waste considerably less water than good ones, some of the cheaper units are 2-1 even 3-1 i.e. 2 gallons filtered for one gallon of treated.
> point of use is the way to go or dedicated cold lines to lav,kitchen,ice maker etc.
> my .0.2


That’s definitely something to think about! Thanks! 

One b!+ch everyone in my town is the cost of our crappy water. Honestly I don’t get it. There’s three of us here, I don’t feel like we conserve water at all. Heck, my kid has to take a bath every night because of his eczema. Our bill is $45-50 per month, while others complain of bills triple ours.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Logtec said:


> Years ago I did some indoor gardening, for a while I would get RO water from a hydroponic store.
> What a pain it was lugging the jugs Of water back and forth. I don’t know if it made a dif, but apparently the fertilizer mixed better into the RO water vs distilled water.


Tell me about it! For a 5 gallon all grain batch I need 7-8 gallons depending on the grain bill and boil off. Not to mention that I drink a gallon of water a day. I use to buy my water from a local convenience store chain, but they closed their RO plant. Now I’m getting it from the grocery store and it’s not as good.


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## Cagey57 (Mar 2, 2018)

OpenSights,
I have had a Rai* Sof* system for over 30 years with a point of use RO at the kitchen sink. I think your best be would be to get a "Better than Big Box" store Softener system and do a single point of use RO. The one we have came with a life time media warranty and besides some leaks on the RO unit I have had no problems. This brand, at least the one we have, uses 50# block salt which only has a 1'x1' foot print for the brine tank. I put a Sear* softner in my MIL's house that is on well water and it's been good for going on 20 years.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Logtec said:


> Years ago I did some indoor gardening, for a while I would get RO water from a hydroponic store.
> What a pain it was lugging the jugs Of water back and forth. I don’t know if it made a dif, but apparently the fertilizer mixed better into the RO water vs distilled water.



hmm indoor gardening...growing some herb??:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
ro takes everything out of the water and thats not good for many things, minerals and certain natural elements of water are needed for growing , cooking and even human health....
I just use a britta water pitcher with filter cartridges, takes some vocs out and makes public water taste better ....were all gona die some day so going crazy over water isnt going to make a huge difference with all the other crap we are exposed to..
the water from my wells upstate is super great tasting and smelling and looks crystal clear with no filtering....


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Logtec said:
> 
> 
> > Years ago I did some indoor gardening, for a while I would get RO water from a hydroponic store.
> ...


Yes, I grew some “erbs”..
the fertilizer was using was Designed to be used with RO water.. I switched nutes and started to use distilled water..
I didn’t notice a difference, other then in the cost of RO water and the hassle of lugging All the jugs.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> hmm indoor gardening...growing some herb??:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> ro takes everything out of the water and thats not good for many things, minerals and certain natural elements of water are needed for growing , cooking and even human health....
> I just use a britta water pitcher with filter cartridges, takes some vocs out and makes public water taste better ....were all gona die some day so going crazy over water isnt going to make a huge difference with all the other crap we are exposed to..
> the water from my wells upstate is super great tasting and smelling and looks crystal clear with no filtering....


In northern Michigan indoor grows are very popular for farmers markets! Here in mid Michigan we only have farmers markets during the growing season. I was shocked to find out that, at least in the tip of the mitten, they have farmers markets year round!

When I winterized my neighbors cabin up north I snagged 20 gallons of the well water to brew. That is some of the best water I’ve ever tasted other than from the mountains in Connecticut! I get to open the cabin, one week during the summer and winterize in the fall. Basically it’s all about barter. Love it up north!


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> In northern Michigan indoor grows are very popular for farmers markets! Here in mid Michigan we only have farmers markets during the growing season. I was shocked to find out that, at least in the tip of the mitten, they have farmers markets year round!
> 
> When I winterized my neighbors cabin up north I snagged 20 gallons of the well water to brew. That is some of the best water I’ve ever tasted other than from the mountains in Connecticut! I get to open the cabin, one week during the summer and winterize in the fall. Basically it’s all about barter. Love it up north!



upstate by me, literally around the corner( 4 minute drive if that) there is a natural spring that people from all over come and fill containers to take home, I have tasted it several times and it has a super fresh sweet taste to it....but my well water is almost as good...


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> upstate by me, literally around the corner( 4 minute drive if that) there is a natural spring that people from all over come and fill containers to take home, I have tasted it several times and it has a super fresh sweet taste to it....but my well water is almost as good...


In Salisbury CT in front of town hall there was a fountain fed by a spring. It was fed to an old wooden troth halfway up the mountain and then gravity fed to the fountain. As a kid riding my bike around town that was the place to go when you were sweating your arse off! Best water ever! My grandfather pretty much lived off grid. He’d take 15-20 plastic jugs into town every couple of weeks for bathing, and cooking. He lived in Ancramdale NY. Depression era, self sufficiency was his way.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> In Salisbury CT in front of town hall there was a fountain fed by a spring. It was fed to an old wooden troth halfway up the mountain and then gravity fed to the fountain. As a kid riding my bike around town that was the place to go when you were sweating your arse off! Best water ever! My grandfather pretty much lived off grid. He’d take 15-20 plastic jugs into town every couple of weeks for bathing, and cooking. He lived in Ancramdale NY. Depression era, self sufficiency was his way.



it might not be depression era now, but..at the bottom of my hill there is an old historic school house, that some hippie chick and boyfriend bought before I bought my place...they have electric but nothing else...I mean nothing..no running water and no septic system..so yes they schit through a hole in the floor and it ran under the school house, then a few years back they dragged in an old mobile home with supposed chemical toilet, then the garbage bags build up to the roof of the mobile home before the town makes them clean up, im coming out of the woods one day on my atv and she is bathing in the stream, now at one time she may have looked good, but the dreadlocks under her arms and hanging fat was a sight I cant un-see, that image is burned into my mind..dam....
they dont bother anyone and are harmless..but clean living is not in their vocabulary...


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## VictorPlumber (Feb 26, 2019)

Reverse osmosis (RO) corrosion is a type of corrosion that is encountered with water produced by reverse osmosis.
Water produced by reverse osmosis has a comparatively low pH and has little or no alkalinity. Therefore, this type of water can be highly corrosive to the COPPER piping.
Tubing for RO water should always be POLY tubing, not copper.


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## VictorPlumber (Feb 26, 2019)

Tango said:


> I'm not an expert but someone told me, it's going to be useless and expensive to filter water for washing clothes, taking showers and flushing the toilet. It should be reserved for drinking water unless you have unlimited budget.


I heard when you take a shower you breeze chlorine which is in your city water so having carbon water filter as your whole house filter is a good idea (except laundry and garden lines).


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## thumper (Aug 19, 2011)

Paulie B said:


> I just quoted a whole house RO system for a customer who's too close to the ocean and has high sodium in there well. My cost for the materials was over $15,000. And I think it's was a 4-1 waste ratio. Needless to say we're going to bury a 2000 gallon tank in the ground and they will have water trucked in. But this is the second one I've had quoted. The last one was for high nitrates. Around the same cost just for material. I could dig around and find the slip if you want to see what the system would include
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Yes most people don't realize the waste ratio 4:1. Which means for every gallon you purify, the system waste 4 gallons. Even SB coffee giant only uses RO for just the beverages not their restroom, mop sink, I'm not sure about the hand sink.


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