# Waste Energy Recovery



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

This has been around for some time in Canada.... So I figured I would see what you guys think about this.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

It makes sense on new construction jobs. I don't think you will see a decent pay back on retrofits though.

As always with any energy saving device. the cost of the energy it's saving and projected future costs make it or break it.

If you have an electric water heater and you pay $0.24/Kwa then it's a no brainer. If you have a natural gas heater and pay $0.50 per therm it's a tough sell.

Life cycle cost analysis is the name of the game.



OldSchool said:


> This has been around for some time in Canada.... So I figured I would see what you guys think about this.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I've heard about those systems and that they don't return much. I'm all for anything that get something from "nothing" so I'm interested in hearing about it though. There's a lot of waste in a typical home that could be used for energy. Some of it seems so insignificant but it all adds up. 







Paul


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> This has been around for some time in Canada.... So I figured I would see what you guys think about this.


I was married in 1957. Our first apartment was on the 3rd floor, on the first floor was a laundro-mat. As a plumber the owner quite often called on me for service. In the basement was a tank, open to the atmosphere. All the wash water drained into this tank -- there was an overflow pipe in the middle which went to drain. I would judge from memory that the tank was at least a 4 x 4 x 4. It was made from steel, imeresed in the hot drain water was a couple of coils of 2" copper tube. All incoming cold water ran through that tubing. This thing was built by the previous owner of the laundry. Per the guy I was renting from he said
"this tank creates a tremendous saving on heating the water costs". Now from a plumbing standpoint, there were no safegaurds like backflow, doublewall heat exchange. Nothing to protect the water supply. God took care of it about six months after we moved in, the tank leaked. The system was abandoned. I moved and a couple of years later the building was torn down and a new structure was built in its place.

Looking at the drawing above I don't see any safetys either!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Double walled with visible leak detection. It's code approved in FL.



PLUMBER_BILL said:


> I was married in 1957. Our first apartment was on the 3rd floor, on the first floor was a laundro-mat. As a plumber the owner quite often called on me for service. In the basement was a tank, open to the atmosphere. All the wash water drained into this tank -- there was an overflow pipe in the middle which went to drain. I would judge from memory that the tank was at least a 4 x 4 x 4. It was made from steel, imeresed in the hot drain water was a couple of coils of 2" copper tube. All incoming cold water ran through that tubing. This thing was built by the previous owner of the laundry. Per the guy I was renting from he said
> "this tank creates a tremendous saving on heating the water costs". Now from a plumbing standpoint, there were no safegaurds like backflow, doublewall heat exchange. Nothing to protect the water supply. God took care of it about six months after we moved in, the tank leaked. The system was abandoned. I moved and a couple of years later the building was torn down and a new structure was built in its place.
> 
> *Looking at the drawing above I don't see any safetys either!*


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

clevegoddard said:


> Waste energy recovery is the recovery of energy which would otherwise go to waste, but instead is being reused and recovered for other energy purposes. I always like this type of projects. Thanks for sharing this with me.


If you can read these posts, but can't read the intro post?? Do it before you get pressure hosed...


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> If you can read these posts, but can't read the intro post?? Do it before you get pressure hosed...


I've pushed the red button on all his posts, I think he's spamming RJ!


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

It very creative.. I would try it on my house first


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> It very creative.. I would try it on my house first


Yes, but Protech has it nailed!
I actually had to bid on a couple of military projects requiring these systems in the past back at the old company I worked for. Not once did they get approved. The Core always scrambled with "why are we over budget?" They either scrapped the job for further funding, or "VE'd" the job back to typical "cheaper" systems. 

If it's not "life cycle cost effective" why install it? Don't forget all of these "green" systems have hidden maintenance fee's behind the Oz curtain.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

But does it work well? With low-flow shower heads, I would think it's not going to do much. Unless people showered all day and night. 

Any data OS?


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

It would work better coiled around a dryer vent or stove..


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## The real E.P. (Aug 9, 2011)

It's called power pipe here's website
http://www.renewability.com/power_pipe/index.html


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

The biggest design I bid on was on a new Fort Benning's barracks building.
Loved the system layout. Had the mech room on first floor. All the gang showers and laundry room waste water on the second and third floors combined together in the mech room into a manifold system with combination offsets into 4 separate pipe drops wrapped in the heat recovery systems. Drainage then tied back together below grade into one system and connected itself back to the main building sewer. Engineer placed clean-outs at both ends of the upper and lower manifolds.

However, job got scrapped/postponed as it also included an intense solar water heating system. I had a quote for 15 grand just for the DDC systems, which is typically an HVAC sub expense only.


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## jordanlong (Sep 28, 2012)

All can say about energy recovery system that it is new and good system but it is not yet proven system.


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## plumberlondon99 (Dec 8, 2012)

Yes i think a lot of these systems need to become more affordable as well and like you say the technology needs to be improved also.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

plumberlondon99 said:


> Yes i think a lot of these systems need to become more affordable as well and like you say the technology needs to be improved also.


Intro or bust!!!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

U666A said:


> Intro or bust!!!


 Dangs..666 beats me to this... let me know... the bus is warming up..


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## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

what about people on septic tanks? I'm from canada and I'm all for sending every available BTU into the septic tank to keep my little buddies the anaerobic bacteria warm and happy.

This system may be an issue for freezing/low performing septic etc. up north.


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## Billy_Hudson (Feb 1, 2013)

I think this is a very brilliant idea and everyone should be made aware that we can reduce the energy consumption in our homes not only for our savings but for the world energy savings.


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

Dude intro???


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

I work on a free energy system where the condenser water off of the chillers runs the reheat coils that heat the building. Very cool idea.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

I've seen some heat recovery in Costco stores where they utilize exchanger tanks scavenging waste heat from the refrigeration systems as preheat upstream of the domestic water heaters. I recall output temp from them being somewhere around 108-118F, and our water supply is rather cool.


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