# Look at this Handyman Connection



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Please read the comments posted that tell the reasons of why this situation happened. 


Apparently the secretary who deals with customers knows how to push back over the phone, and these property owners feel that "nothing is wrong" with this unit being damaged underneath, leaking.


The video is proof that there's a problem. 


I don't make up what don't exist.

That right there is a dishwasher replacement, given the problems they've created. 


If you all merge this thread with the other, please keep the title to this thread. 


Dunbar "Helping protect the community, one dishwasher at a time" Plumbing :laughing:


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## bgbill (Aug 27, 2009)

Why is a Plumber associating themselves with a Handyman service?

I am licensed in 3 trades, Plumbing, A/C and Building, I wouldn't ever dream of associating with a handyman service.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

I don't get it.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

bgbill said:


> Why is a Plumber associating themselves with a Handyman service?
> 
> I am licensed in 3 trades, Plumbing, A/C and Building, I wouldn't ever dream of associating with a handyman service.


Maybe starving. Hard time finding work. Just starting their own business.
scraping by till it picks up.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

bgbill said:


> Why is a Plumber associating themselves with a Handyman service?
> 
> I am licensed in 3 trades, Plumbing, A/C and Building, I wouldn't ever dream of associating with a handyman service.


 


Nice try, proves that I'm reaching the audience that matters. :laughing:



Until this matter is resolved, the customer *has a leaking dishwasher as we speak, thanks to the guy who came out and serviced the unit from handyman connnection last night.*

*He told the customer, *


*"Some of the newer models have the water connection in the middle of the unit." *


*Oh really?*


*Suspended, hanging by the supply line itself, leaking, torn from the once bracket it had...5" to the side?*



*Don't worry bgbill, *


*you joined a site just to comment on my post. *



* :thumbsup:*


*IT'S WORKING :laughing:*


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

I guess he was absent that day at handy man school when they taught about dishwasher ells, and 3/8" soft copper. Oh wait handy men don't get formal training, and thats why they're dangerous hacks. Disregard that first part. Buh bye.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Nice try, proves that I'm reaching the audience that matters. :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WTF are you talking about Steve, what's working?:laughing: Why didn't you just fix it for her and be done with it? Why all the drama and filming?:blink:
I don't think the Plumbing Zone is the place for this.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

ironranger said:


> WTF are you talking about Steve, what's working?:laughing: Why didn't you just fix it for her and be done with it? Why all the drama and filming?:blink:
> I don't think the Plumbing Zone is the place for this.


 

What you say, cocoa puffs? 



Don't leave the thread, I've found half-cracked use for ya; page views and I need this one at the top. 


How's your cereal this morning with that hole in the box? :laughing:


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> What you say, cocoa puffs?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're way out there dude, you on drugs? Got news for ya, this isn't your website so it doesn't matter how many views it gets!:laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

ironranger said:


> You're way out there dude, you on drugs? Got news for ya, this isn't your website so it doesn't matter how many views it gets!:laughing:


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


>



That's making me hungry, I used to love cocoa puffs!:laughing::thumbup::thumbup:


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

am I the only one that doesn't understand what this thread is about. I feel like I'm on crack.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

express said:


> am I the only one that doesn't understand what this thread is about. I feel like I'm on crack.


 

The first 5 seconds of the video states to read the story. That means you'd have to go to youtube and watch it, then read all the typed print I added to this situation.


The cliff notes:


Handyman Connection messed with a dishwasher and damaged it heavily, and when they was asked to be accountable, they fudged up.

If they want to treat good paying customers in such a fashion, there are pricks like me that come out of nowhere and make sure someone other than the secretary who blew this customer off is aware that this is how they conduct business.

Time for ice cream.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You and I don't normally get along but that won't stop me from saying........Good work telling it like it is on this one.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The first 5 seconds of the video states to read the story. That means you'd have to go to youtube and watch it, then read all the typed print I added to this situation.
> 
> 
> The cliff notes:
> ...


Was this a new dishwasher installation they screwed up? Or were they working on a problem as a service call? That's the part I don't get, time for more cereal!:thumbup:
Is this a plumbing related issue or is it an appliance issue? Is the company required to have some kind of license to work on or install dishwashers?
Thanks.:thumbsup:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Dishwasher had been there for 5 years. 

New granite countertop/sink install, someone instructed them that they needed electrical work on the dishwasher.


When they did the electrical work is when the damage was done to the dishwasher.

They was contracted as an electrician to do electrical work on this dishwasher, which indirectly required a licensed electrician to do the task at hand.


This is a chain reaction situation where a plumbing issue came from an electrical repair that only licensed electricians should be doing. I don't care which way you paint the wall; if they wasn't doing work they shouldn't be doing, they wouldn't be in this boat right now.



CLICK ME


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I dont know whats what with the cereal thing, but if its meant to tee someone off, lighten up


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I've replaced a number of failed solenoids. Not much to it. Just go to an appliance store and get another. Or, if there's nothing wrong with the solenoid, pull the dishwasher out, put down some tarps, turn it on its back and fire a new screw though the solenoid and the frame. 

Get rid of the stupid direct copper hookup and put in a more serviceable braided line. 

And the electrical is a simple hookup - it should have absolutely nothing to do with the solenoid - power goes to the little tin box on the opposite side. Plug the solenoid back in.

And yes, I understand completely that this Handyman Connection is probably doing illegal work and they screwed it up, but I think that it's best to keep your eye on the ball - make some money off of it.

Today, I was called out because "the plumber" put in a new faucet and the customer could not get water out of it.

When I got there, that wasn't at all surprising because something had broken in his softener, or it was hooked backwards, because there was resin everywhere.

But the first thing I saw was that "the plumber" had put in a faucet with spray in a three-hole sink and had left the sprayer dangling beneath the cabinet. Oy.

I capped the port and removed the internal diverter which was the culprit. I was really hoping that the customer could remember "the plumber's" name but that was why he called _me_ - he couldn't remember it.

There were a number of other oddities. He didn't remember having the toilet pulled but there were no washers and the bolts had never been cut off. The nuts on the toilet seat were on backwards. The flapper didn't have the loop cut off, though it should have been. Things like that. There are some real jerks out there who think they can do service work.


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

Dun, I'm gonna assume that all you have posted in this thread and in the YouTube thread is just the way it happened. 

But, I'm still left with the following questions. 

Who removed the dishwasher in the first place, if it was removed?
Did the handy man service pull out the dishwasher or attempt to pull out the dishwasher?
What exactly was the handy man service called out to do? That is unclear.
Is there additional damage to the dishwasher as a result of the dishwasher running with no water to it?
Did the handy man service test the dishwasher for proper operation before leaving the property?

In other words, you have the whole story in your head, and bits and pieces of it are in your posts, but I'm not clear on the order of events and how much additional damage was done.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

if you fixed the leak, and plugged the valve back in, would it work?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Bill said:


> I dont know whats what with the cereal thing, but if its meant to tee someone off, lighten up


 
*I'll lighten up when you moderators toughen up with moderating this site, quit being selective in who you discipline, and allowing certain members to be constantly argumentative with others, chasing them around the site, leading up to threads being locked. *

*And last time I checked, posting cereal boxes isn't a violation of the rules. It looks like once again I'll be chatting with the owner of this site because this is twice I'm calling cards for what is obvious here. You even alluded to that in your PM. *

*Trust me, lots of proof in locked threads and edited posts where you all are not keeping this forum tamed because of the buddy buddy system. *

*Taking this out of PM's and putting it out in the open wasn't a good move on your part, be a little more patient as I was contemplating what to respond back to you in PM's. * 




Herk said:


> I've replaced a number of failed solenoids. Not much to it. Just go to an appliance store and get another. Or, if there's nothing wrong with the solenoid, pull the dishwasher out, put down some tarps, turn it on its back and fire a new screw though the solenoid and the frame.
> 
> Get rid of the stupid direct copper hookup and put in a more serviceable braided line.
> 
> ...


 
You had to be there to see the roar of smoke come out of the dishwasher. It malfunctioned, and I promise it has shortened the life of the dishwasher.

This is a really good customer of mine, and yes, I "could" of profited off the mistake of another but I would instantly get accused of this dishwasher's short life after all this because I'm last to touch it. That's all they are going to understand since it is a fairly expensive appliance to replace.


In the big picture, those who do damage or work incorrectly should be responsible. I instructed the property owner to contact the insurance company and let them hammer it out with handyman connection.

Watching/hearing this property owner get shot through hoops was insulting, listening to what sounded like an insurance company telling them no to everything that you would think would be a YES in customer satisfaction, doing what an honorable service provider would do when they make a mistake. I'm held to this same gammut, no doubt.


If it had been years since the error was made, by all means; I would of done exactly as you mentioned. Fix the problem and life moves on. But they was there less than 6 days prior and they are legally responsible to correct any problem including damage incurred as a result.








Double-A said:


> Dun, I'm gonna assume that all you have posted in this thread and in the YouTube thread is just the way it happened.
> 
> But, I'm still left with the following questions.
> 
> ...


 

1. A plumber 5 years ago.
2. The contractor from Handyman Connection was the last one to touch this dishwasher, work was done to it in regards to electrical work before the granite countertops were set. The bill was only $107.00 so it must of been something minor, but it did involve electrical work.
3. Given the fact that the sink was gone, Air Gap was disconnected, no drainage to "test" the unit, the fellow from handyman connection could not test the unit in a "normal" fashion. *However, If you are aware of an older water piping configuration leading to a dishwasher, and you know that you are going to move that unit to do whatever repair that was required, YOU as a service provider MUST check any connections leading to the dishwasher to provide the insurance that there will be no problems, no leaks, nothing that could lead this unit to malfunction when the unit is turned back on for operation.*
4. The dishwasher operated for approximately 3-5 minutes with many adjustments made to the cycles by the property owner trying to get the unit to function. Indirectly the unit was turned on and off numerous times, trying to get the device to create a fill cycle like I wanted it to do to purge the air in the line that I know is in there. I had to rework the water lines and I always purge air out by being present for that initial startup, that way the property owner isn't startled. 

This process allows me to check for operation of the unit, purge air and allow me to check to see if there are any leaks to the Air Gap. That way no one can have me return because "I didn't check something". I'm very thorough and leave no stone unturned.

Being that the unit operated without water because the solenoid valve was disconnected from the power source, smoke emitting from inside the unit, it's a safe bet (even though it's operating currently) that damage occurred to the unit. That is a what if that will divulge itself when something fails. That's why I was trying to address the problem *now* as time after the incident will make it impossible for compensation.




GREENPLUM said:


> if you fixed the leak, and plugged the valve back in, would it work?


 
Of course, but who do you think will get called if it eventually breaks like we know is coming? I guess all that read this thread had to be there to see the smoke fill the room with plastic burning smoke, having to open the doors to the house with how bad it was. 


It is a *FACT *that when you work on anything, in any trade and you are fully aware by recognition of a bad situation, and you ignore that situation and continue on with your assigned task, 

you're taking a risk, and unless you advise/notify the customer in verbal or written way, you end up in situations like these. You paint yourself into a corner real quick because you never know who's coming in behind you to see what and why things are not working.

It's a bad situation for the customer. I don't care about anyone else in this matter. I was the one looking at a room full of smoke and a dishwasher that was hacked in by poor workmanship and I know how this affects the bottom line of performance and reliability of the purchase of the product.

What do you think will happen when an appliance repair guy shows up and sees that nonsense? 

If there's any type of warranty on that unit, it is void.

If I video'd the smoke rolling out of this dishwasher, there wouldn't even be a discussion about the facts. It's a no brainer that something was wrong. 

My job as a licensed plumber is to properly test that dishwasher and make sure it is operable before leaving that residence. 


Watch the video again, everyone. Look at how that soft copper is right against the motor of that dishwasher. We know what will happen there in short time.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah but..

I mean, in the first thread on this topic I was concerned. You tugged on our sleeves and promised to show us a groundbreaking exposé of the evils these imposters conjur and the victims they create. So far all I'm reminded of is when Geraldo opened scarface's vault. <yawn>

It's not that I want to belittle your efforts (in fact, on the contrary! We do need pest control) but so far all I've seen is another f*'d up DW install. That'd prolly be 9,284 or thereabouts if I was keeping track. Only slightly fewer than the number of water pump installs that have given me the heebee-jeebees. And let's not even start about the Culligan(TM) Man!

Stay with the investigative reporting but this'n is a hard sell I'm afraid. :no:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Miguel said:


> Yeah but..
> 
> I mean, in the first thread on this topic I was concerned. You tugged on our sleeves and promised to show us a groundbreaking exposé of the evils these imposters conjur and the victims they create. So far all I'm reminded of is when Geraldo opened scarface's vault. <yawn>
> 
> ...


 

You got it, and I had no intention of bringing an orgasmic conclusion to this other than I'm not going to let someone toss the liability to two unsuspecting customers.

It was a handyman company doing unlicensed electrical work that indirectly created damage, and a plumbing issue.

And a woman on the phone that was trying really hard to toss this one to the curb that it didn't happen. 

I might care too much, but I've earned a huge customer base by going to bat in defense of seeing my customers get screwed. 

Explain where I'm misleading anyone with that notion. ???


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

A great inspector will you make one day...DUNBAR for chief national plumbing inspector! :thumbup:


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

service guy said:


> A great inspector will you make one day...DUNBAR for chief national plumbing inspector! :thumbup:


Cant argue with that statement! If only *all* inspectors were that dilligent!



Dunbar said:


> Explain where I'm misleading anyone with that notion. ???


No need, chum. I didn't mean to imply that you were in any way misleading but a 1st yr legal ass't could whoop your a$$ with what you've given us. The damning evidence that _the accused_ was indescriminatly and abhorrently negligent in their duties. Again, all we've seen is another f*d up DW install.
You've got credibility but if you run with this, based on what you've shown us, you run the risk of losing the credibility you'll need. It's happened before where genuine advocates have been cast as crackpots. You gotta watch them sharks man!

NB: This has little to do with the topic but:
_Q: *What's black and tan and looks good on a lawyer?*
A: A doberman!_ :laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

My premace is done specifically of gathering public opinion, presenting evidence, letting others view for themselves if they think this was incorrect or not.


Given my reasoning and what simple steps I've laid out, 

I'll bet you that missing sausage egg burrito in my pickup truck that people will think first about what these poor folks encountered. 


But in a court of a law? 

My invoice along with my recollection of knowledge will provide basis for the reasonable man theory to play out. 


Do you know how the "reasonable man theory" works?


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> My premace is done specifically of gathering public opinion, presenting evidence, letting others view for themselves if they think this was incorrect or not.
> 
> 
> Given my reasoning and what simple steps I've laid out,
> ...


Yes I do.
:thumbup1:
I just hate it when someone with a rightious cause is shot down. Hurts in the pit of the stomach.

Power to ya!


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Kudos Dunbar. I wouldn't have done any different. It sounds like you were doing the right thing and trying to take care of your client and covering your own butt and reputation.


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## M5Plumb (Oct 2, 2008)

Dunbar, you got into this with the appearance of no skin in the game...at least this is how it appears. That said, did you leave any documentation for the customer to go to bat with? The video only substantiates what is there, the pop-ups with the comments only give your opinion and in some cases may not be deemed appropriate as you are a plumber not an electrician. 
You of anyone know what it is you face in this scenario so I wish you the best in your efforts and to hopefully get the desired results for your customer.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

*This is not directed at any one member, this is for everyone in General

Please read the rules, if you don't understand them then Contact any MOD or Nathan on what they mean.*

Reference: http://www.plumbingzone.com/faq.php?faq=plumbing_zone_faqs#faq_postingrules

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Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on plumbingzone.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause you account to be banned.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Steve,

I think the meds are really working out for you but it makes it hard for me to follow you. When you say "handyman connection" is that the name of a business and is this thread dedicated to pointing out problems you and others find with their work?

Mark


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Same thing confused me at first......:blink: Apparently handyman connection is some handyman business.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Yes and yes.


This is one specific situation where an error was made indirectly from performing a task on an appliance in the home that they should of never been doing to begin with.


The method is working however. It's an isolated case of a service provider taking advantage of an unsuspecting customer. It does not matter what I have in what anyone percieves as "evidence" 


The message is being delivered that you cannot get by with this when you subject my customers to hardship, *period.* *I truly care that much.*


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

OK, I understand better now. Thanks for clearing that up some.

I agree that someone screwed up and it sounds like it was a hit and run service call. I hate that. 

But, having said that, and being primarily a GC, I'm wondering who was supervising this job and coordinating this whole process. If it was your client, I hope they pursue this and get these folks to tow the line.

If there was a project supervisor or GC on this, I hope they make this right for the client. There is no reason a serviceable appliance was damaged because someone didn't know what they were doing.


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

{dons moderators hat}

I'm gonna remind everyone that being respectful is a requirement of all posts and posters on this site. If you feel singled out, then you're reading too much into this post. Its a general reminder. 

I'm putting it here because this thread is being visited quite a bit (Thanks to Dunbar for posting a hot topic). This means plenty of folks will see this and be reminded that we have a system in place to deal with posts that violate the rules. Please use the







button and report the post. Tell us why you think its a violation and then give us some time to look at it.

We're professionals folks. Its not a stretch to ask everyone to behave as such.

Thanks to all in advance.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Double-A said:


> OK, I understand better now. Thanks for clearing that up some.
> 
> I agree that someone screwed up and it sounds like it was a hit and run service call. I hate that.
> 
> ...


 
No GC at all. This is just an elderly couple who made a decision to upgrade their kitchen as 40 years of sacrifice looking at harvest gold finally got to them. 

Now in regards to how this all unfolded, I believe it to be that they directed those involved by personal decision, and someone mentioned they needed electrical work done to the dishwasher before it was covered over by granite. 

The reason why they called that company instead of a licensed electrician was most likely a financial one. 

Now, I will say from the perspective of being a tradesman, I rarely see electricians advertise, and you'd think that would be par for the course. But it's rare at best and maybe the trip through the yellow pages proved that? 

When people consider GC's, that usually indicates large scale projects before smaller, right? People like to DIY and figure that they can orchestrate the lineup of contractors with not much effort...until events like these unfold.

My intentions are to help my customer, plain and simple. I wouldn't go to this length of publicity if this company would of been even remotely respectful and reasonable. But since they want to covet the $107 they made and not spend $700 to fix a mistake earning that measely earning, well this wouldn't be a posting on the internet, and I'd be going on about eating my zingers and hammering keys across the internet.

I despise people being taken advantage of by service providers when I work so hard to be the polar opposite of that equation.

What's awesome is I have two stars for this thread. *SALAMI BAM!*


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## [email protected] (May 4, 2011)

*Handyman connection*

The dishwasher sink and countertop were removed by the son of the homeonwers. The electric line to the dw was put in elec box and elec line to the compactor had a lamp wire to box that was replaced. There was no drain to run dishwasher to. Dw was not moved at this time only when son pull it out when removing countertop.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The dishwasher sink and countertop were removed by the son of the homeonwers. The electric line to the dw was put in elec box and elec line to the compactor had a lamp wire to box that was replaced. There was no drain to run dishwasher to. Dw was not moved at this time only when son pull it out when removing countertop.



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## danfan13 (Mar 31, 2011)

Why would anyone use 1/2" copper to connect a dishwasher?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> The dishwasher sink and countertop were removed by the son of the homeonwers. The electric line to the dw was put in elec box and elec line to the compactor had a lamp wire to box that was replaced. There was no drain to run dishwasher to. Dw was not moved at this time only when son pull it out when removing countertop.


 

I posted this in August of 2009...

*it's May of 2011*

And that video is over 700 views now. :blink: 


You're "always say no" female receptionist sealed the fate that day of the "electricians we send are only licensed if the the customer *requests* a *licensed* electrician." 

Oh really?


How convenient. So you proudly advertise electricians for hire that don't understand 'hooking up a dishwasher' means pulling that front cover to check the connection at the junction box, 

and by the way, noticing that solenoid valve disconnected, on the floor, electrical connections unplugged and looking undone. 


Coming back and saying that was an okay situation after seeing a room full of smoke knowing it damaged that dishwasher...

not cool. You're not the one with the back pocket as a consumer shelling another $990.00 when that dishwasher fails, and it will in due time. 

That heating element will fail, probably a $100 part but it'll be $300 to fix, and a total replacement (new dishwasher) always looks better from a warranty/new purchase point of view.

*Glad my efforts paid off, you found me and your situation. I can imagine that female secretary makes handyman connection a TON by bouncing liability off your shoulders and anyone that makes mistakes. This worked so well that I'm going to do this the next time I find work that doesn't "comply to the standards of proper and usual workmanship" that is conducive to proper relations of contractor to consumer. *


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

danfan13 said:


> Why would anyone use 1/2" copper to connect a dishwasher?


 
Common design in the 70's. Soft copper was used a lot in that size till 3/8" was code approved for dishwashers.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Common design in the 70's. Soft copper was used a lot in that size till 3/8" was code approved for dishwashers.


1/2" O.D.

Right? 

I remember doing that way back in the day.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Is Handyman Connection a company in Cincinnati Ohio? I didn't read the whole thread.

Whoever did that dishwasher install should be fired, it looks terrible.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

yes. google "handyman connection cincinnati". breid................:rockon:


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## PeckPlumbing (Mar 19, 2011)

Lets call.... Yellow Van Handyman!!!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

danfan13 said:


> Why would anyone use 1/2" copper to connect a dishwasher?


 



I have come across 1/2" in old condos for D/W's. The old 1-piece W/C's also had 1/2" supply lines in those same old buildings.


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