# First uponor full repipe.



## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Loving this stuff


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## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

Cool man, do you demo the drywall yourself or a contractor handle that?


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Serve pro, demo'd it, made my life easy. Could not have made the insurance co. happy though. 8)


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

*looking good*

Ummm where's the trap for the washing maching drain? I'm going to start a Wirsbo repipe on Monday myself!


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

damnplumber said:


> Ummm where's the trap for the washing maching drain? I'm going to start a Wirsbo repipe on Monday myself!


I noticed that too, I hope it's underground, /shrug.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Also no hammer arrestors on ice maker box and washer box


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Optimus Primer said:


> Also no hammer arrestors on ice maker box and washer box


I was told by the uponor rep they don't need them.


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

We too are currently doing a Uponor full repipe. We are using the Milwaukee battery operated expansion tool. It's the bomb.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> I was told by the uponor rep they don't need them.


 He was wrong


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Why are you so close to the edge of the studs? Why not place them in the middle and get rid of stud guards? 18" on the water heater?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> Why are you so close to the edge of the studs? Why not place them in the middle and get rid of stud guards? 18" on the water heater?


It's an electric HWT ... No draft hood .... What you still need that much copper off the tank ???


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## pipes (Jun 24, 2008)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> I was told by the uponor rep they don't need them.


You drank the "Kool-aid" NEVER drink the "Kool-aid" 




gear junkie said:


> Why are you so close to the edge of the studs? Why not place them in the middle and get rid of stud guards? 18" on the water heater?


Picky picky, whole job done in an hour and fifteen minutes , and you're gonna get picky.


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## evilcyrus (Apr 27, 2009)

Min 18 inch offa tank


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> It's an electric HWT ... No draft hood .... What you still need that much copper off the tank ???


Dammit man.....now I gotta check. I always thought it for both.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

The milwaukee battery tool has me liking it again. I was so tired of pumping it with that hand tool. I hired my youngest son just for that..LOL


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> I was told by the uponor rep they don't need them.


 If just a piece of dead end pipe, he's right... however, should have precharged air chambers..


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

How many fixtures are you tying into?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

It's ahhhh beautiful 

18" on water heaters

Welcome to the fraternity of FCE :laughing:


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Optimus Primer said:


> Also no hammer arrestors on ice maker box and washer box


The original copper pipes had the 3/4 16" air chambers...so I guess you could say it didn't have any to begin with, cause those things are full of water after a month.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> The original copper pipes had the 3/4 16" air chambers...so I guess you could say it didn't have any to begin with, cause those things are full of water after a month.


Correct, piece of useless dead end pipe required by stupid codes.
Only time they are useful is when you drain the pipes every month and open every faucet to let the air in.. is there a poll of who does that???


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

gear junkie said:


> Why are you so close to the edge of the studs? Why not place them in the middle and get rid of stud guards? 18" on the water heater?


Easier to thread the needle if I didn't have to bend it around the plastic and other stuff. Needed stud guards for the block wall anyway, so what wold have saved...nuth'n. 8 P


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> It's an electric HWT ... No draft hood .... What you still need that much copper off the tank ???


That's just how much I didn't cut off the original copper pipe.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

pipes said:


> You drank the "Kool-aid" NEVER drink the "Kool-aid"
> 
> Picky picky, whole job done in an hour and fifteen minutes , and you're gonna get picky.


It was flavor-aid


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

That's a nice little insurance job you picked up......:thumbsup:


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> Loving this stuff


You get to use plastic fittings? Here it is brass unless not inspected.
Insulation on the outside bibs? FLA gets that cold?
Is that a water meter in front of the bib?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Plumber said:


> You get to use plastic fittings? Here it is brass unless not inspected.
> Insulation on the outside bibs? FLA gets that cold?
> Is that a water meter in front of the bib?


 






Yes, north FL gets below freezing temps in the Winter months. And yes, that is a meter box in front of the hose spigot.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Plumber said:


> You get to use plastic fittings? Here it is brass unless not inspected.
> Insulation on the outside bibs? FLA gets that cold?
> Is that a water meter in front of the bib?


I use the plastic fittings, this job is not requiring a inspection. 
Lol yeah have you ever seen a meter up that close, I replace the whole water service too no extra charge bahhahah! 8)


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> I was told by the uponor rep they don't need them.


Depends on your inspection authority. But if your code requires hammer arrestors then the stricter enforcement should apply.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Ghostmaker said:


> Depends on your inspection authority. But if your code requires hammer arrestors then the stricter enforcement should apply.


Doesn't make any differance with any authority...common sense prevails the cirscumstance.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

I'll use pex in the wall and stub out of wall only with copper. I never stub pex through drywall. Makes for a much better job.

18" minimum from water heater, even in Cali


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Ghostmaker said:


> Depends on your inspection authority. But if your code requires hammer arrestors then the stricter enforcement should apply.


I imagine they would make me put arresters on if it was inspected. It was something i missed. Had I realized it I would have. But it's too late now.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

You are in an IPC state and water hammer arresters are no longer required under the latest update.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Plumber said:


> You get to use plastic fittings? Here it is brass unless not inspected.
> Insulation on the outside bibs? FLA gets that cold?
> Is that a water meter in front of the bib?



I assumed the insulation outside was to protect against UV exposure.

Re: Water Hammer. 

Our code doesn't _require_ mechanical protection. It just stipulates we must protect the system from the effects of water hammer. The nature of PEX piping itself often mitigates water hammer on it's own.

If you find you do have a problem down the road, the hose connection style chambers make a quick and easy-to-access fix if necessary.


Looks like that was a good job. I agree with you running the water lines to one side of the studs and plating them. I won't place them in the center on 2x4 walls as drywallers can show up with boxes of screws that are too long, the guys hanging mirrors, cabinet guys, trimmers, even bathroom accessories tend to be able to divine the location of a water line with great accuracy.

Nice neat work.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> I assumed the insulation outside was to protect against UV exposure.
> 
> Re: Water Hammer.
> 
> ...


No it is copper under that for stability. I stubbed out the block wall in copper.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

nhmaster3015 said:


> You are in an IPC state and water hammer arresters are no longer required under the latest update.


Thanks man that makes feel better about forgetting.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> I imagine they would make me put arresters on *if it was inspected*. It was something i missed. Had I realized it I would have. But it's too late now.


No inspection on a job that size ? 
Your a daring man !

The city's around here would slap your pee-pee for that.
I seen then make you open all the walls back up for inspection when they find out after the fact.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> *No inspection on a job that size ?*
> Your a daring man !
> 
> The city's around here would slap your pee-pee for that.
> I seen then make you open all the walls back up for inspection when they find out after the fact.


 








What job? It's just a 'repair.'..........:laughing:


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

How about a vacumn breaker on the hose bibb? How many wsfu's on the 1/2" cold line feeding the washer, ice line and something else that can't be seen?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> You are in an IPC state and water hammer arresters are no longer required under the latest update.


If it's adopted yet. Don't know about the whole state but in my area you need them still. Carry on Frank, I wasn't trying to rain on your parade. Still looks good


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

KCplumber said:


> How about a vacumn breaker on the hose bibb? How many wsfu's on the 1/2" cold line feeding the washer, ice line and something else that can't be seen?


OHhh nice catch with the vacuum breaker missed that, ...that 1/2 cold is feeding exactly one Landry tub and one Landry box, I didn't count the ice maker box as a fixture unit.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> No inspection on a job that size ?
> Your a daring man !
> 
> The city's around here would slap your pee-pee for that.
> I seen then make you open all the walls back up for inspection when they find out after the fact.


NOT MY PEE-PEE!!! (slams knees together)


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> OHhh nice catch with the vacuum breaker missed that, ...that 1/2 cold is feeding exactly one Landry tub and one Landry box, I didn't count the ice maker box as a fixture unit.


Had a inspector red tag me for an ice line, I was 1/2 wsfu to much on the cold side. Had to run 20' of 1" off the meter to the first cold takeoff. Course I was working in a city 50 miles from where I normally work and I think he was making a power play cause he knew I was from out of town


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## JHITT (Feb 27, 2013)

The builders in Charlolle County were so picky about PEX applications. Simple use as a copper or cpvc substitute was never allowed and banned by our company as well. We only did overhead jobs and each fixture was ran from a manifold. That was the original purpose for PEX there they figured. And with hardly any fittings used in the walls, we could run 3/8 all day and it was fine. Codes requiring 1/2 inch or bigger hidden in the walls really defeats the purpose of PEX water lines. These days, with the codes here, it's just another tubing material. Your job looks great. Some installs utilized the coil loop for a 90 and were not very secure in the wall. Hammer arresters were a must. PEX installs have evolved so much in the last 15 years. The different extrusion processes are still available and are mismatched to the wrong fittings/tools all the time around here....lol.


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## BOBBYTUCSON (Feb 8, 2013)

I would have transitioned to copper for the inlet and outlet for the water heater, need 18" of ridgid pipe for water heater as required, anybody else catch that? But hell of a job man


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

BOBBYTUCSON said:


> I would have transitioned to copper for the inlet and outlet for the water heater, need 18" of ridgid pipe for water heater as required, anybody else catch that? But hell of a job man


You need 18" for a GAS water heater. What ya got there is an electric.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

BOBBYTUCSON said:


> I would have transitioned to copper for the inlet and outlet for the water heater, need 18" of ridgid pipe for water heater as required, anybody else catch that? But hell of a job man


No you don't it's an electric water heater bud, here guys run cpvc straight to it. Though there is at lest 8" of the original copper pipe still there. Thank you for the complement. 8)


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## BOBBYTUCSON (Feb 8, 2013)

Btw, solid choice on the color coordination, I see alot coworkers use only clear most of the time, I always use red/blue.thumbs up!!! Did u use the Milwaukee propex expander? Hows ur battery life? Mine doesn't make many connection before I have to swap a battery and start charging the other.but beats the heck out of pumping.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

BOBBYTUCSON said:


> Btw, solid choice on the color coordination, I see alot coworkers use only clear most of the time, I always use red/blue.thumbs up!!! Did u use the Milwaukee propex expander? Hows ur battery life? Mine doesn't make many connection before I have to swap a battery and start charging the other.but beats the heck out of pumping.


Let me ask you a question pertaining to color coordination. Say you're roughing in a large home. You get down to the end, and you're out of red. You need 5' to make your last connection. It's 3pm on Friday afternoon. This is a changeover also, so people live in this home and need their water on for the weekend. You look down at that large spool of blue left over. What do you do?

If you said put the 5' of blue in what's the difference, you get half credit. It won't make a difference on the operation of the job. The only problem comes in when someone gets called out a few years later for a cross connection. The cold is bleeding through to the hot somewhere. The plumber is going to notice you've color coded everything. Wow, this should be easy he thinks to himself until he gets to your blue hot line. He's going to double triple and quadruple check that, and you've just cost him extra time.

If you said run to the wholesale house and get some more, again partial credit. You'd be done but now you need to make an extra trip. If you said you've never ran out of pipe you're either full of shiot, or carry so much on your truck you have no room for anything else. 

I'll stick to clear

Just my .02


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## BOBBYTUCSON (Feb 8, 2013)

Rw, I make sure to have enough material for the job when the job is locked in.we buy enough and than some once we secure a bid.even If we ran out, we have stock at the shop at all times, out of sunlight in room temp.so I wouldn't have to go to a warehouse or supply that would be closed at night.

#2 , If I really did run out of red or blue, and all I had was clear, than yes I would attach the clear because all I'd have to do is spiral red or blue electrical tape around the pipe. I have called the the manufacturer of pex-a and spoke with them on the phone, its fine.there is nothing in the tapes adhesive that would cause harm the the pipe.nor does 10mil tape.they don't recomend it, but uponer said that tape is fine and wont be considered improper install. After all, the city is using tape for tracer wire on pipes, so I know they follow code and wouldn't do it if it were violating.and :thumbup:yes I carry lots of electrical tape, red, blue, yellow, green, and if I run out of tape, Walmart is open 247

#3 I wont run out of room in my truck, I could fit 4 100' rolls of pex, and even more stuff with with my truck packed with everything else.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

I dont care what color the pipe is. An experienced service plumber does'nt see color and would not let this deter him from tracking down the problem. 

Just sayin.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> Let me ask you a question pertaining to color coordination. Say you're roughing in a large home. You get down to the end, and you're out of red. You need 5' to make your last connection. It's 3pm on Friday afternoon. This is a changeover also, so people live in this home and need their water on for the weekend. You look down at that large spool of blue left over. What do you do?
> 
> If you said put the 5' of blue in what's the difference, you get half credit. It won't make a difference on the operation of the job. The only problem comes in when someone gets called out a few years later for a cross connection. The cold is bleeding through to the hot somewhere. The plumber is going to notice you've color coded everything. Wow, this should be easy he thinks to himself until he gets to your blue hot line. He's going to double triple and quadruple check that, and you've just cost him extra time.
> 
> ...


If I continue to color code like I am, I'll make that run to the supply house to get the right color. Using the wrong color defeats the idea.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

89plumbum said:


> I dont care what color the pipe is. An experienced service plumber does'nt see color and would not let this deter him from tracking down the problem.
> 
> Just sayin.


All the crap I've seen in service with screwed up installations, I wouldn't ignore the guy getting mixed up at the end and it would warrant checking at the very least. You should still be able to fix the problem but it will require a second look IMO. You don't see colors? What about copper turning green from corrosion, or galvanized with rust hanging off of it. A good service plumber narrows down the problem and gets it fixed right the first time. A great service plumber looks at EVERYTHING and can advise the customer of future repairs. I would certainly notice the different color, and most of the time just figure on the guy ran out of pipe but every once in a while it takes a few min to sort it out.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Really nice job. Things are neat, squared and on pourpose.:thumbsup:
We have to do 18" here no matter if gas or electric. 
We have the 12V as well as 18V Milwaukee propex expanders. Love them.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Why do we need red and blue.? Copper was never color coded. Neither was galvanized. Have we really got to the dumbing down point that we need to color code the water piping? Personal opinion of colored pipes is that it looks like something out of a circus.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Why do we need red and blue.? Copper was never color coded. Neither was galvanized. Have we really got to the dumbing down point that we need to color code the water piping? Personal opinion of colored pipes is that it looks like something out of a circus.


Seems like I remember seeing pieces of tape and Sharpie "H" and "C" marks on copper ground jobs.

I refuse to buy red/blue Pex BTW.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

For dyslexic plumbers :laughing: 

Sure but not the entire length of the pipe. I just think the colored stuff looks homeownerish


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

nhmaster3015 said:


> For dyslexic plumbers :laughing:
> 
> Sure but not the entire length of the pipe. I just think the colored stuff looks homeownerish


My dyslexia is pretty bad. (Shrug) my personal opinion is it looks like what it is supposed to be hot and cold now if a home owner is lulled in to thinking they can mess with it they are sadly mistaken. I think it just looks different than what you know and love.


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## JHITT (Feb 27, 2013)

Well here's my two cents on the color coding: in an HR situation with a manifold, it does make sense. After all, once we meet or exceed code, it's all about the home owner or home builder. Small time this and that doesn't really matter. When we are just one trade in a new construction job, and we have a reputation as well as million dollar contracts with reputable home builders to maintain, we will do what is code, what is best, and what is expected of us. Our jobs are sometimes, a work of art, talent, and skill. Some, even take photos for personal reasons, not just cya. Once we leave the job, much of our work lives on for many, many years. When there are 30 lines leaving a manifold, two feeding it, lines to and from water heaters, feeding hose bibs, unsoftened water, soft water,...etc. it calls for red, blue, and the white/clear. Usability, longevity, and safety are concerns for years after we leave the drive. It's not a personal preference as to what is correct. Its not about us. There are plenty of things that are up to us. Sadly, code leaves us with little to debate, sometimes. So we pick on colored tubing. It has its place in an HR. If you are just doing trunk and branch, I could care less what you use. I would not waste my time on PEX. in my book, trunk and branch calls for copper or cpvc, anyhow. But who here has been using the red and blue sleeving to protect our lines under slab. Many, I'm sure. It's no different.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

JHITT said:


> Well here's my two cents on the color coding: in an HR situation with a manifold, it does make sense. After all, once we meet or exceed code, it's all about the home owner or home builder. Small time this and that doesn't really matter. When we are just one trade in a new construction job, and we have a reputation as well as million dollar contracts with reputable home builders to maintain, we will do what is code, what is best, and what is expected of us. Our jobs are sometimes, a work of art, talent, and skill. Some, even take photos for personal reasons, not just cya. Once we leave the job, much of our work lives on for many, many years. When there are 30 lines leaving a manifold, two feeding it, lines to and from water heaters, feeding hose bibs, unsoftened water, soft water,...etc. it calls for red, blue, and the white/clear. Usability, longevity, and safety are concerns for years after we leave the drive. It's not a personal preference as to what is correct. Its not about us. There are plenty of things that are up to us. Sadly, code leaves us with little to debate, sometimes. So we pick on colored tubing. It has its place in an HR. If you are just doing trunk and branch, I could care less what you use. I would not waste my time on PEX. in my book, trunk and branch calls for copper or cpvc, anyhow. But who here has been using the red and blue sleeving to protect our lines under slab. Many, I'm sure. It's no different.


Cpvc is one of the worst piping systems ever invented. Uponor aquapex has it beat, period, I wouldn't waste time with copper ether. IMHO. :thumbsup:


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> Cpvc is one of the worst piping systems ever invented. Uponor aquapex has it beat, period, I wouldn't waste time with copper ether. IMHO. :thumbsup:


Why is cpvc the worst? Don't you glue every drain pipe? I'd think a glue joint would be a lot better then a clamp/compression joint. Don't you remember quest? They got rid of it. Last time I checked glue pipes are still around. I'm not a fan of pex, barely a fan of cpvc, I only like copper.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> *Cpvc is one of the worst piping systems* *ever invented*. Uponor aquapex has it beat, period, I wouldn't waste time with copper ether. IMHO. :thumbsup:


 







I know, that's why I thank God that it was invented.......:laughing:


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Why is cpvc the worst? Don't you glue every drain pipe? I'd think a glue joint would be a lot better then a clamp/compression joint. Don't you remember quest? They got rid of it. Last time I checked glue pipes are still around. I'm not a fan of pex, barely a fan of cpvc, I only like copper.


I push copper hard !
It eliminates about 75% of the hacks I'm bidding against.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Keep in mind the majority of the Quest failures were pipe failing and not so much the fittings. I know there were fittings that failed but the piping was the main failure.


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## JHITT (Feb 27, 2013)

Last time I worked with quest, I think it was older manufactured homes or trailers. When I first worked with cpvc, I had just been through a FlowGuard Gold training course that was through either Nibco or Charlotte Pipe, I forget. The pipe, fitting, and glue warranties are not good unless the the pipe is reamed (chamfored). Even if cleaned before glued, some fittings have blown when we would pump up the lines. The solvent weld is great and all but it took me a long time to feel right about cpvc. It just felt like toy piping, if that makes any sense. Just being all bendy made it feel cheap. The stub outs are bendy with stops on them, the whole nine. I finally got used to it though. PEX made me feel like I was installing water hoses in the walls, but I got used to that too. Anyone remember back to the first time we learned how to sweat copper? No way that little bit of solder sucked up around there was going to seal that joint. Nothing but big, bad, tough pipe with tight, threaded fittings feels dependable. We test new products and sometimes they take, and the market keeps them. Who knows what is down the pike? California was not very pleased with PEX. They only wanted PEX C to be allowed. The brass fitting failures almost did in the whole idea. But I have learned that they all have their place. I can't do copper on a whole house R.O. without an acid neutralizer that defeats the whole purpose. If I only want soft water going certain places, then a PEX home run is great. But when the kid gloves are off and it's time to quit playing house, I have yet to find a factory or plant that will let me work with less than k copper or sch 80. Even sch 80 is off the table for the most part. So, yeah, cpvc and PEX seem less than ideal to me sometimes and I see them as taboo when I'm wearing my hard hat. But I have to accept that residential is a different animal so there it is. We change PVC to handle hot, we change PE to handle hot, what will be next?


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Why is cpvc the worst? Don't you glue every drain pipe? I'd think a glue joint would be a lot better then a clamp/compression joint. Don't you remember quest? They got rid of it. Last time I checked glue pipes are still around. I'm not a fan of pex, barely a fan of cpvc, I only like copper.


It's not the glue joint that puts me off about cpvc. It's that it gets so brittle after some use. Cutting into the pipe and it spits length wise down the pipe. 

Uponor isn't a mechanical compression or a clamp or a weld. 

Good. I am glad you guys only like copper. That means I'll have you beat on a bid, cost ,man hours, an it would still be a quality product. 8) $$$


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

We only do copper, no pex. We do lose a few jobs but not many to pex. You can sell copper because its quality. You accept pex because you think you need to compete with all the other spaghetti hacks in the area. :thumbsup:


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

nhmaster3015 said:


> We only do copper, no pex. We do lose a few jobs but not many to pex. You can sell copper because its quality. You accept pex because you think you need to compete with all the other spaghetti hacks in the area. :thumbsup:


Copper is fine, unless something goes wrong, and something always goes wrong.


You'll lose more soon. I accept pex cause its better than copper.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> Copper is fine, unless something goes wrong, and something always goes wrong.
> 
> You'll lose more soon. I accept pex cause its better than copper.


Something always goes wrong? Like what? You accept pex cause its fast and easy. I bet you enjoy buying shark bites too


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Something always goes wrong? Like what? You accept pex cause its fast and easy. I bet you enjoy buying shark bites too


Youmadbro, like what? hah! Let's see...uh I don't know maybe slab leaks that flood a house and cause so much damage that the place has to be gutted and repiped. Lol. 






They call them gator bites here, and I've used them in certain situations, I won't put them in a wall or under ground/slab.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> Youmadbro, like what? hah! Let's see...uh I don't know maybe slab leaks that flood a house and cause so much damage that the place has to be gutted and repiped. Lol.
> 
> Moonstruck - Copper Pipes.avi - YouTube
> 
> They call them gator bites here, and I've used them in certain situations, I won't put them in a wall or under ground/slab.


HAHAHA !
Thats how I always pictured Old School in my mind. lol


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## James420 (Nov 14, 2012)

nhmaster3015 said:


> We only do copper, no pex. We do lose a few jobs but not many to pex. You can sell copper because its quality. You accept pex because you think you need to compete with all the other spaghetti hacks in the area. :thumbsup:


I think it stems from years ago when plumbing was more of a trade, galvanized and brass water lines, copper and cast iron waste lines. Go into a new house now and it looks like an electrician ran the water lines (manifold system). 

 The Spanish speaking fellows installing plumbing in residential construction are making less than I made back in the mid '90s, running Pex and all it has done, is dumb down the industry. 

The master plumber I apprenticed with got his license back in 1963, I talked to him a few weeks ago and he wonders why there is a test anymore. 
I believe plumbing should have rigidity and take some skill, but that is where I learned my trade and who I learned it from.

Btw, ef tankless water heaters as well.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> Youmadbro, like what? hah! Let's see...uh I don't know maybe slab leaks that flood a house and cause so much damage that the place has to be gutted and repiped. Lol.
> 
> Moonstruck - Copper Pipes.avi - YouTube
> 
> They call them gator bites here, and I've used them in certain situations, I won't put them in a wall or under ground/slab.


 
Ok i needed that after today!!! Now i dont feel so bad about destroying my wifes new stainless steel range and dishwasher we had in the garage. I snagged it with the jetter fender and pushed them almost through the wall. :jester:


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

You are SO screwed.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

i signed up for the witness protection...so i can hide


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## Catlin987987 (Nov 12, 2010)

I have a question. How do you guys do many repipes? What are you repiping? The only time we do a repipe is because the house froze.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

*Spaghetti hacks*



nhmaster3015 said:


> We only do copper, no pex. We do lose a few jobs but not many to pex. You can sell copper because its quality. You accept pex because you think you need to compete with all the other spaghetti hacks in the area. :thumbsup:


In Central Florida we do not install copper because it fails. L copper has failed in less than 4 years. I have seen K copper fail in less than 10 years. Cpvc is now having problems on the hot side becoming brittle and cracking. Just repiped a 12 year old house with cpvc under slab. Five failures in twelve years. Man. reps blamed original plumber for lack of thermal loops.Easy to do when that plumber has passed away.
Our choices are very limited on what we can offer our customers.If you told them you wanted to install copper you would never get the job.I hate the fact that we have to install a non ridgid piping system. I recently started installing Uponor on repipes. I am spending a lot of time getting it straight and neat. I have to make a choice, pipes that are ridgid and straight but fail prematurely or piping that will not leak.
As far as competing with other spaghetti hacks I have been at this long enough that my reputation for quality and service gives me customers that hire me without the need for other quotes.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

James420 said:


> I think it stems from years ago when plumbing was more of a trade, galvanized and brass water lines, copper and cast iron waste lines. Go into a new house now and it looks like an electrician ran the water lines (manifold system).
> 
> The Spanish speaking fellows installing plumbing in residential construction are making less than I made back in the mid '90s, running Pex and all it has done, is dumb down the industry.
> 
> ...


You can blame new techniques for that if you choose, but I am going to blame the people really responsible, the old guys who lost control of the trade and let it get this way. Turned the job into fast food. The tech didn't take the skill out of the job. Still have to follow code, still have to count fixtures, the only difference is no fire hazard, less fittings.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

The bear said:


> In Central Florida we do not install copper because it fails. L copper has failed in less than 4 years. I have seen K copper fail in less than 10 years. Cpvc is now having problems on the hot side becoming brittle and cracking. Just repiped a 12 year old house with cpvc under slab. Five failures in twelve years. Man. reps blamed original plumber for lack of thermal loops.Easy to do when that plumber has passed away.
> Our choices are very limited on what we can offer our customers.If you told them you wanted to install copper you would never get the job.I hate the fact that we have to install a non ridgid piping system. I recently started installing Uponor on repipes. I am spending a lot of time getting it straight and neat. I have to make a choice, pipes that are ridgid and straight but fail prematurely or piping that will not leak.
> As far as competing with other spaghetti hacks I have been at this long enough that my reputation for quality and service gives me customers that hire me without the need for other quotes.


Awesome comment Bear! Those guys just don't understand that our water and soil eat copper down here. But I guess they would have us install galv piping lol.


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## James420 (Nov 14, 2012)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> Awesome comment Bear! Those guys just don't understand that our water and soil eat copper down here. But I guess they would have us install galv piping lol.


Down there isn't the entire country, but hey since 8 year olds can run Pex water lines this trade is on its way up. I can't wait for flexible DWV piping.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

James420 said:


> Down there isn't the entire country, but hey since 8 year olds can run Pex water lines this trade is on its way up. I can't wait for flexible DWV piping.


Horse crap and you know it. 

This trade is definitely on it way up, as soon as it sheds some dead weight.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

*Spaghetti hacks and 8 year olds.*



James420 said:


> Down there isn't the entire country, but hey since 8 year olds can run Pex water lines this trade is on its way up. I can't wait for flexible DWV piping.


You failed to understand my post. No one is in love with installing pex tubing.But as of right now we have very few choices for our customers. Also Florida statutes hold us responsible for our work for a minimum of ten years so it is more important that the piping systems hold up year after year.The other issue we deal with is insurance companies that are always looking to subrogate any insurance claim back to the contractor.Another fact in Florida is that our general liability insurance policies exclude coverage for mold or fungi remediation. The last thing we need is a piping system that fails prematurely and causes a mold claim.
By the way I started in plumbing banging leads joints and threading galv. I have installed or repaired cast,galv,copper,dwv pvc and dwv copper, cpvc, polybutlene,abs pex and polyethylene piping systems.. I had electronics for leak detection and locating before my competitors new they existed.Hell my seesnake monitor serial # is 000002. I am 53 years old and a license master with close to 40 years of experience. I install pex because I have no other option at this time not because I am a spaghetti hack. Hopefully the eight year old you speak of will have more choices in the future.
.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Catlin987987 said:


> I have a question. How do you guys do many repipes? What are you repiping? The only time we do a repipe is because the house froze.


I was skimming through some older posts and found this.

I was thinking, "is this guy serious?" Then I realized he is from Canada and I thought to myself, "Do water pipes ever get a chance to get old up there?"


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> I was told by the uponor rep they don't need them.


That is not entirely true. Under the IPC whichever install is the stricter code or manufacture that is the one that is followed. Don't forget your hose vacuum breaker on the outside hose bibb. I did not see a stop for it?


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