# cutting 4 inch duram steel pipe



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

got myself into a mean old house with a 4 inch
durham steel pipe going up from the basement behind a beautiful fireplace ,,walnut wood trim ect... to the second floor bathroom...

they have torn out the cement floors in the bathroom to reveal the duram steel toilet flange and the arm going back left into the outside wall 

anyway, I am going to somehow cut off that 
4 inch arm and put a 4x3 no hub reducer on it...

then add a 3 x2 double wye to catch the whirlpool tub and the vanity.... then install the toilet flange...

I might take some pictures of this god awful mess .....later ....:laughing:

doesent lennox make a blade to cut cast iron?

does it work on steel pipe??

suggestions please...


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

On steel, just use a 24T blade.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*thats too easy*

I did not think that it would touch that stuff...


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

*cutting duram steel*

All the duram Ive seen is just galvie cuts good with sawsall not like cast iron easier good luck!!


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I thought Durham was just cast iron fittings tapped at an angle, and the pipe was regular galvy.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Is it steel pipe or IPS pipe?

If it is IPS use a band saw saw set at very low speed.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Yes a carbide sawzall blade will cut CI. No problem..

Not worth a crap on steel..


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

slickrick said:


> A carbide sawzall blade will cut CI. No problem..


Not IPS, you'll be there all day and need a hundred blades.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Not carbide blade-use a diamon lenox blade. 20 times better. Rick, how many more tools have you bought since joining pz?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

gear junkie said:


> Not carbide blade-use a diamon lenox blade. 20 times better. Rick, how many more tools have you bought since joining pz?


I had been out of the field for the last 2 yrs. There seems to be all kinds of neat stuff out there. Keep it coming. :thumbup:

When it comes to my hands on tools, I want the best.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Durham refers to cast iron fittings. They were (and still are) used with galvanized steel pipe. Never seen a durham closet ring (or bend for that matter). Pictures a must in this situation.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Pics will be taken next week*

yes, I will post some pics of this abortion next week....

I will go find some of those lennox blades with the diamond edje

I might even do the work and post pics of the half assed way I will have to plumb this mess to actually make it work :laughing:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumbus said:


> Durham refers to cast iron fittings. They were (and still are) used with galvanized steel pipe.


Durham fittings are also used on IPS pipe, which is threaded cast iron pipe, it's a very heavy wall pipe, thicker than the XH cast iron that was made back in the twenties.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Durham fittings are also used on IPS pipe, which is threaded cast iron pipe, it's a very heavy wall pipe, thicker than the XH cast iron that was made back in the twenties.


I might have some IPS nipples on two wall hung carriers, the plant was built in the 20's. The o.d. looks like 4", but I had to use a 3" gripper plug, as the i.d. is a lot smaller. The pipe looks like it has a clay lining or something.


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## dankman (Nov 19, 2009)

The easiest means I've found to cut cast iron is to using a cutting blade on an angle grinder, just make sure you wear a dust mask, hearing protection and, safety glasses.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

jjbex said:


> I might have some IPS nipples on two wall hung carriers, the plant was built in the 20's. The o.d. looks like 4", but I had to use a 3" gripper plug, as the i.d. is a lot smaller. The pipe looks like it has a clay lining or something.


Yep, that's IPS, threading it together sucks, and cutting it is even worse if you can't turn a pipe cutter on it, I fired an idiot apprentice that broke three soil snappers in one day try to snap cut it like soil pipe. My collection of compound leverage pipe wrenches and four and six foot chain tongs comes from doing a few IPS pipe jobs.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Yep, that's IPS, threading it together sucks, and cutting it is even worse if you can't turn a pipe cutter on it, I fired an idiot apprentice that broke three soil snappers in one day try to snap cut it like soil pipe. My collection of compound leverage pipe wrenches and four and six foot chain tongs comes from doing a few IPS pipe jobs.


The nipples stick out 1/4" past the existing finished wall. Unfortunately, the G.C. installed 5/8" greenboard over the wall. The wall was pretty gnarly, it's plaster, with asbestos mixed in. I got there, and realized I couldn't do anything with it, so I got the carpenter to scribe the w.c.'s and cut out the greenboard. The w.c.'s will be recessed 5/8", but it'll work.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

jjbex said:


> The nipples stick out 1/4" past the existing finished wall. Unfortunately, the G.C. installed 5/8" greenboard over the wall. The wall was pretty gnarly, it's plaster, with asbestos mixed in. I got there, and realized I couldn't do anything with it, so I got the carpenter to scribe the w.c.'s and cut out the greenboard. The w.c.'s will be recessed 5/8", but it'll work.


It'll look weird, but it will work, and the pipe has at least a hundred years left, based on the stacks I have seen that have a hundred on them already.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I am having major trouble with the carrier studs. There were no jam nuts on them, and the hollows for the studs were too small to get a jam nut all the way back to the carrier. I had to wallow out the holes without making dust. Then, one of the jam nuts wouldn't jam. I will work Sat. and put lockwashers on. Do you guys put jam nuts on your carrier studs, then use nuts and washers to keep the w.c. a hair off the wall?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

jjbex said:


> I am having major trouble with the carrier studs. There were no jam nuts on them, and the hollows for the studs were too small to get a jam nut all the way back to the carrier. I had to wallow out the holes without making dust. Then, one of the jam nuts wouldn't jam. I will work Sat. and put lockwashers on. Do you guys put jam nuts on your carrier studs, then use nuts and washers to keep the w.c. a hair off the wall?


YES.

Or, you could remove the studs and fill a stryfoam coffee cup with shaving cream and drill the holes larger through it. It works quite well.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

jjbex said:


> I am having major trouble with the carrier studs. There were no jam nuts on them, and the hollows for the studs were too small to get a jam nut all the way back to the carrier. I had to wallow out the holes without making dust. Then, one of the jam nuts wouldn't jam. I will work Sat. and put lockwashers on. Do you guys put jam nuts on your carrier studs, then use nuts and washers to keep the w.c. a hair off the wall?


Can you get the studs to spin out? If you can replace the studs, and yes, I always use jam nuts, but I always leave the top left corner a tad loose to allow for flex, it helps stop broken bowls.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I spun the studs out, they were very loose and flexible, even when screwed about 2" into the carrier. There weren't any nuts and washers, either. The w.c. must have been cranked tight to the wall. I'm thinking that the waste nipple must have been keeping it stable.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Can you get the studs to spin out? If you can replace the studs, and yes, I always use jam nuts, but I always leave the top left corner a tad loose to allow for flex, it helps stop broken bowls.


What flexes?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

The bowl. You always leave one of the nuts only finger snug. We always call it the "dummy nut."


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> What flexes?


The bowl when people decide to stand on the front of it to change ceiling tiles, if you crank all four points tight the bowl the bowl will crack at the mounting holes, leaving one just a scoche loose prevents that, and it still seals water tight.


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## brass plumbing (Jul 30, 2008)

*right angle high speed grinder*

using this process for years in detroit fisher bldg
works for most everything, copper, pvc, durham, cast iron, galv pipe
weighs less than sawzall & blades are cheaper

the lock washer is a waste if you can get a fastener called nylok it never loosens


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I learned something this evening.:thumbsup:


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

The bowl dosent flex the reason a nut is left loose is unless the wall is perfectl flat the W/C could crack its kind of like how a 4 legged stool wont sit on a imperfect floor but a three legged one will set on any kind of wavey surface. So If you pull all 4 nuts down tight somethings got to "flex" and it wont be the china itll crack Get it Boys?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

jeffreyplumber said:


> The bowl dosent flex the reason a nut is left loose is unless the wall is perfectl flat the W/C could crack its kind of like how a 4 legged stool wont sit on a imperfect floor but a three legged one will set on any kind of wavey surface. So If you pull all 4 nuts down tight somethings got to "flex" and it wont be the china itll crack Get it Boys?


Hey, Nutty Professor, if you want to school me, kindly follow grammatical rules, okay?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

What a sweet day. Got 6 O.T. to install the carrier studs. I went to open stores and used their 316 s.s. nuts and lock washers. A little *never-seez *
and I was good to go. The cutsheet with the w.c. said to leave the studs 
1-7/8" past the finished wall. I left mine out 2-1/4" because I didn't order out the little cap nut package. I will just use s.s. fender washers and nuts.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

*sorry about the grammar*

Im sorry Mr turd whisper. But none of you seem to have a clue why the "Dummy Nut " is left loose.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Im sorry Mr turd whisper. But none of you seem to have a clue why the "Dummy Nut " is left loose.


What did I say about the grammar?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I had to set a wall wung w.c. that came open box. It didn't have any instructions with it. I knew one nut had to be finger tight and I thought it was bottom right. I broke the bowl. Afgter getting a different w.c that had instructions. I found it was top left plus the nipple was out too far by a 1/4". So that didn't help matters.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I've rehung and reworked plenty of those carriers/toilets with new stainless all thread and have never left any on the nuts finger tight and dare say I have never broken one yet. I think your problems might be from being heavy handed. I always use stainless fender washers,stainless all thread. I made the gaskets out of high density foam of different thickness to make up any imperfections in the wall.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I've rehung and reworked plenty of those carriers/toilets with new stainless all thread and have never left any on the nuts finger tight and dare say I have never broken one yet. I think your problems might be from being heavy handed. I always use stainless fender washers,stainless all thread. I made the gaskets out of high density foam of different thickness to make up any imperfections in the wall.


If you are installing it correctly you aren't tightening it to the wall, you are tightening it to the jam nuts that you thread on before the bowl goes on. Set these jam nuts an 1/8" away from the wall. but measure this from the face of the carrier, not the wall, as the wall will seldom be square, the 1/8" gap is then caulked.


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