# Glue gone bad?



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm wondering if something went wrong with my glue, or if its just me. I would like to think its the glue, but you never know. 

Not doubt it was me, at least for not listening to the voice saying to check my stuff before I went out. 

Was out today replacing some drain lines under a trailer. Glue seemed to be a bit dodgy, but still, its glue, what could go wrong. Well, when it came time to test, I had 3 joints leaking. :furious:

I've never had a problem with the multipurpose glue I use, until now. I'm thinking the can has been on my van too long. Maybe it was the bit of water I was fighting. 

This happen to anyone else?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

That's what happens using illegal glue. :laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I had a problem with oatey glue one time. Fairly new can, yet something did not seem right. Had several leaks. 

I only use IPS 704. If it's thick or gelled, throw it away. 

Glue is cheap, redo's are not.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Multipurpose glue?.....:blink:


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

Thats how great CPVC is........


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> That's what happens using illegal glue. :laughing:





Tommy plumber said:


> Multipurpose glue?.....:blink:



For over 2 years I have been using Multi-purpose with little to no problems. Which is approved for PVC. What is wrong with that? 

Awful nice when you run into sporadic ABS.

I'm certain I mentioned working on drains, but maybe not PVC.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Indie said:


> For over 2 years I have been using Multi-purpose with little to no problems. Which is approved for PVC. *What is wrong with that?*
> 
> Awful nice when you run into sporadic ABS.
> 
> I'm certain I mentioned working on drains, but maybe not PVC.


 






Nothing. New one on me. I never heard of it. PVC cement is different from CPVC cement as far as I knew.

But like others posted, if the cement is of a jelly-like consistency in the can, then it's time to throw it out.

PS: thanks for the flyer in my e-mail...:thumbsup:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Indie said:


> For over 2 years I have been using Multi-purpose with little to no problems. Which is approved for PVC. What is wrong with that?
> 
> Awful nice when you run into sporadic ABS.
> 
> I'm certain I mentioned working on drains, but maybe not PVC.


Check the can, it's not code approved period.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

What was this on water line or drains ???


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

What you Putting it on?

I saw Home Depot selling some stuff that was labeled that, but I don't know anyone who has used it for plumbing job


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> What was this on water line or drains ???





TallCoolOne said:


> What you Putting it on?
> 
> I saw Home Depot selling some stuff that was labeled that, but I don't know anyone who has used it for plumbing job



PVC drains. Never had a problem until today.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Indie said:


> PVC drains. Never had a problem until today.


What you put it under pressure test ?

Or did it leak with out pressure


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> What you put it under pressure test ?
> 
> Or did it leak with out pressure



No pressure test, it was a reworking of a disconnected drain under a trailer. It leaked after we ran water through it.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Indie said:


> No pressure test, it was a reworking of a disconnected drain under a trailer. It leaked after we ran water through it.


I only use the Blue Hot GLue and Purple prime for PVC DWV lines...


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

My pvc glue seems to go bad, a little more quickly lately. Gets jelly like, cuz I buy it by the quart, cuz it is almost same price as pint. So I don't get too ticked off if I gotta throw out the last little bit. But sometimes I think supply house sells me old stuff.:yes: I buy it on an as needed basis, simply cuz if I don't use it fast it does go bad.

But what I do is date the can, the day I bought it, & if it goes bad within the month, I send the crap back. But most of the time, I look at the date, & its older than I would of thought, if I had not dated it. Amazing how time flies.

If that stuff leaked with water draining through it, it was pretty bad.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

If I am under a nasty broken down trailer....I grab a can of Rain-or-shine.

Might not be code, but neither is anything else under there, and that joint will outlive the trailer.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

PinkPlumber said:


> If I am under a nasty broken down trailer....I grab a can of Rain-or-shine.
> 
> Might not be code, but neither is anything else under there, and that joint will outlive the trailer.


Why isn't Rain or Shine Code in your area?

To me it's the only Glue I will carry or use on my jobs


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

TallCoolOne said:


> Why isn't Rain or Shine Code in your area?
> 
> To me it's the only Glue I will carry or use on my jobs


Not supposed to use on CPVC, but I've never had an issue....cure/test time is shorter....in and out...


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Tried the all purpose and won't use it ever again! Mine leaked as well! 

Trailers absolutely require rain r shine cause I am not crawling back under there!


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Not supposed to use on CPVC, but I've never had an issue....cure/test time is shorter....in and out...


You used that on cpvc:blink:


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

cbeck said:


> You used that on cpvc:blink:



Under a nasty trailer....you bet.:thumbup:


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

PinkPlumber said:


> Not supposed to use on CPVC, but I've never had an issue....cure/test time is shorter....in and out...


For me i don't see CPVC used as water or drain lines.

Only see it on Water Heaters as T&P Drain lines.........


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I use rain n' shine and purple primer on underground repairs and/or when I'm fighting water. 

I never use that multi purpose hack glue, above ground I use clear primer and clear glue on PVC. 

I only use flowgaurd on cpvc, PVc glue is not compatible with cpvc and could weaken the joint. 


sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

PinkPlumber said:


> Under a nasty trailer....you bet.:thumbup:


why not just use the correct glue for the job ?


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

TallCoolOne said:


> For me i don't see CPVC used as water or drain lines.
> 
> Only see it on Water Heaters as T&P Drain lines.........



Alot of the trailers here that are really old have been replumbed with cpvc. PVC or ABS for drains...cpvc is rampant here.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I only use the proper glue for CPVC! Rain R Shine is for pvc only!


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

I don't even like using blue glue on pressure PVC, doesn't weld as well as PVC cement, in my experience.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> I only use the proper glue for CPVC! Rain R Shine is for pvc only!



Well.....then I am a criminal at the trailer park...:whistling2:


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

You guys'r all wrong....use mighty putty!


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Well.....then I am a criminal at the trailer park...:whistling2:


Just know you're probably not the only one. Keep it safe


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

PinkPlumber said:


> Well.....then I am a criminal at the trailer park...:whistling2:


no, you are being hackish for not useing the proper glue, .............just saying


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Well.....then I am a criminal at the trailer park...:whistling2:


You can plumb your trailer however you like!:laughing:


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Bayside500 said:


> no, you are being hackish for not useing the proper glue, .............just saying



call it what u want...but never have I had a leak....I am talking about under an old raggedy trailer, not Mrs' Johnson's house.

Stop pretending you do everything by the books under one of those.....


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> call it what u want...but never have I had a leak....I am talking about under an old raggedy trailer, not Mrs' Johnson's house.
> 
> Stop pretending you do everything by the books under one of those.....


A trailer is someones house too you know

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> A trailer is someones house too you know
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


What kind of trailer do you have


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> A trailer is someones house too you know
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



Get over it....we aren't having another Jump Pinky episode...move on.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> What kind of trailer do you have


I don't have a trailer but I have family that lives in trailers and they would be pissed if someone hacked up their plumbing because of pure laziness.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> I don't have a trailer but I have family that lives in trailers and they would be pissed if someone hacked up their plumbing because of pure laziness.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



Really?....well how bout a trailer with half a floor, no power, and no heating cooling system? These are trailers with 6 different plumbing materials used at any given spot, and they want a leak fixed...

Oh ok....let's bust out the copper ...get a grip.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Mississippiplum said:


> I don't have a trailer but I have family that lives in trailers and they would be pissed if someone hacked up their plumbing because of pure laziness.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



You're getting awfully wound up. 

What is the proper glue to use? 

I'll pass on commenting on the multi-purpose being a hack glue, since I am the OP, and specifically mentioned using multi-purpose. :laughing:


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I do agree a trailer is someones house too!
I always do my best work under em cause I don't wanna go back!
I also do my best work in section 8 because I wanna keep em in that house as long as possible! When they wear it out they might make my neighborhood section 8!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

PinkPlumber said:


> Get over it....we aren't having another Jump Pinky episode...move on.


 







What?........when?............we've had 'jump Pinky episodes'?..........:laughing:

This thread might be the one that gets shut down for going off the rails...........:laughing:


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Really?....well how bout a trailer with half a floor, no power, and no heating cooling system? These are trailers with 6 different plumbing materials used at any given spot, and they want a leak fixed...
> 
> Oh ok....let's bust out the copper ...get a grip.


In that situation I would give a price to repipe! Otherwise I ain't touching it!


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Indie said:


> You're getting awfully wound up.
> 
> What is the proper glue to use?
> 
> I'll pass on commenting on the multi-purpose being a hack glue, since I am the OP, and specifically mentioned using multi-purpose. :laughing:



Rain or shine can in fact be used on CPVC....just not the hot side...


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

Flowguard gold


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Rain or shine can in fact be used on CPVC....just not the hot side...


Not according to their website


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> In that situation I would give a price to repipe! Otherwise I ain't touching it!



No ....we are talking Crackhead trailers....some have blankets for front doors....I kid you not. The lucky ones have plywood.:thumbsup:

These are old trailers that were being scrapped, that the property owner allows folks to live in as long as they pay a small monthly rent on the lot.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

PinkPlumber said:


> Rain or shine can in fact be used on CPVC....just not the hot side...



Not sure if there is Rain or shine at the hardware, so I'll just get PVC glue. I'll check for Rain or Shine at supply house. 

Never used it before. Other shops I worked at used the Green Label PVC glue. 

Maybe I'll try and order some from Wolverine.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I have a itching suspicion that this thread will be closed before the night is out. I ask about glue, and people go off the reservation arguing the merits of trailers. 

If and when the public reads this thread it will only strengthen the notion that plumbers are just a bunch of nuts.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I usually find small cans of rain r shine at the hardware store! I don't use it indoors unless I absolutely have to it makes a blue mess if you ain't real careful! Kinda like purple primer except its a pretty blue.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> I don't have a trailer but I have family that lives in trailers and they would be pissed if someone hacked up their plumbing because of pure laziness.
> 
> The trailers I've crawled under have already had their plumbing hacked. By the trailer factory..


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

deerslayer said:


> I usually find small cans of rain r shine at the hardware store! I don't use it indoors unless I absolutely have to it makes a blue mess if you ain't real careful! Kinda like purple primer except its a pretty blue.



Rick said Multi-purpose glue is not code. As another plumber in Indiana, do you know if that is true? I've never heard that or read that, so far as I can remember.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Indie said:


> Not sure if there is Rain or shine at the hardware, so I'll just get PVC glue. I'll check for Rain or Shine at supply house.
> 
> Never used it before. Other shops I worked at used the Green Label PVC glue.
> 
> Maybe I'll try and order some from Wolverine.



Rain or shine is good stuff....flowguard is for cpvc, so dont use it for anything important...I only use it under broken down trailers because I encounter water/spray/mud while doing it.
If there's going to be an inspection on DWV and you use rain or shine, I believe you still need to clean/prime.

My favorites are when you see where the HO has done their own repairs, and primes and glues PEX to everything....and that crap manages to hold!


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Indie said:


> Rick said Multi-purpose glue is not code. As another plumber in Indiana, do you know if that is true? I've never heard that or read that, so far as I can remember.



Yes!...that stuff will get you high in a few seconds too....and MESSY!!...it is pretty though.:thumbsup:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Indie said:


> You're getting awfully wound up.
> 
> What is the proper glue to use?
> 
> I'll pass on commenting on the multi-purpose being a hack glue, since I am the OP, and specifically mentioned using multi-purpose. :laughing:


Cpvc gets flow guard gold glue or the orange cpvc glue used inconjunction with primer, I prefer flow guard glue because it doesn't require to be used inconjunction with. primer tends to make the pipe and fittings brittle.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> Cpvc gets flow guard gold glue or the orange cpvc glue used inconjunction with primer, I prefer flow guard glue because it doesn't require to be used inconjunction with. primer tends to make the pipe and fittings brittle.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



CPVC requires no primer.....some codes require it.....but it doesn't need it.

Flowguard gold requires no primer anyway.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Indie said:


> Rick said Multi-purpose glue is not code. As another plumber in Indiana, do you know if that is true? I've never heard that or read that, so far as I can remember.


Indie IIRC the code only requires us to use manufacturer recomended solvent welding compounds? So it would be man. approved at least by oatey! I would advise against it in the future though that stuff is problems in a red labeled can in my experience.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Indie said:


> I have a itching suspicion that this thread will be closed before the night is out. I ask about glue, and people go off the reservation arguing the merits of trailers.
> 
> If and when the public reads this thread it will only strengthen the notion that plumbers are just a bunch of nuts.



It's from sniffin that damn multi purpose glue:laughing::laughing::jester:


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> CPVC requires no primer.....some codes require it.....but it doesn't need it.
> 
> Flowguard gold requires no primer anyway.


The orange glue requires primer! The all purpose Indie spoke of requires primer! Only 1 step yellow requires no primer!

(it's on the label if it is confusing)


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> CPVC requires no primer.....some codes require it.....but it doesn't need it.
> 
> Flowguard gold requires no primer anyway.


If you use the orange glue you must use primer, even says on the back of the can, and my code requires it with the orange glue.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Indie said:


> I have a itching suspicion that this thread will be closed before the night is out. I ask about glue, and people go off the reservation arguing the merits of trailers.
> 
> If and when the public reads this thread it will only strengthen the notion that plumbers are just a bunch of nuts.



No....don't take me wrong....I am only referring to certain trailers I have dealt with that really aren't even inhabitable...they are basically just shells....a roof and walls....

My apologies for giving the impression that ALL trailers are nasty and unworthy of quality workmanship....I'll snap some pics next time I go past there...
You will think...."someone LIVES in that??"


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

It doesn't appear that oaty all purpose is endorsed by NSF or UPC, which might be why some codes do not allow it


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

It has to meet an ASTM standard. I don't think it does. 

I know that the green transition glue (abs-pvc) does not.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

why dont you use this type of glue for PVC?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> why dont you use this type of glue for PVC?


That's what we/I use, Epecially on water treatment and well systems.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

RealLivePlumber said:


> It has to meet an ASTM standard. I don't think it does.
> 
> I know that the green transition glue (abs-pvc) does not.


It meets the ASTM Standard D 2564 (which is the same as the blue) and two others, but that's it.

Bottom line, we shouldn't use it, we are all informed now:thumbup:


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

GREENPLUM said:


> why dont you use this type of glue for PVC?


It's a transition glue from PVC to abs, NOT for potable water. Oops, wrong green can


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

Indie said:


> Not sure if there is Rain or shine at the hardware, so I'll just get PVC glue. I'll check for Rain or Shine at supply house.
> 
> Never used it before. Other shops I worked at used the Green Label PVC glue.
> 
> Maybe I'll try and order some from Wolverine.


 down here in fl. it's wet r dry and theres another brand, with a similiar name. it may be rain or shine...they work well when you have to work wet.. on my dry fitting i load up a little extra on the side, so when i give it a quater or half turn that extra glue is on the bottom of my pipe. where the water is washing at my glue on the wet side..also i give it a longer set up time.. btw will not work under water:laughing:


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

cbeck said:


> It's a transition glue from PVC to abs, NOT for potable water


No that is heavy duty clear for pvc! The standard of the industry around here!


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> No that is heavy duty clear for pvc! The standard of the industry around here!


You're, right. That's the dark green can, the light green is the transition


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Let's not forget about the grey glue, this ought to confuse someone. By the way, we used to use the grey cement on 6" and up.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

We used heavy bodied gray weld-on to glue together large diameter irrigation lines when I worked in the irrigation industry.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

Indie said:


> I'm wondering if something went wrong with my glue, or if its just me. I would like to think its the glue, but you never know.
> 
> Not doubt it was me, at least for not listening to the voice saying to check my stuff before I went out.
> 
> ...


it may be the heat. i know once opened they don't last long in this heat.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Can't stand multi purpose. That's my supply houses idea of cpvc and abs glue. I can see no ABS since they don't sell it but they do not carry cpvc glue at all, and will not order it for me.


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> Can't stand multi purpose. That's my supply houses idea of cpvc and abs glue. I can see no ABS since they don't sell it but they do not carry cpvc glue at all, and will not order it for me.


I can't imagine a supply house that doesn't sell flowguard!!


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> Can't stand multi purpose. That's my supply houses idea of cpvc and abs glue. I can see no ABS since they don't sell it but they do not carry cpvc glue at all, and will not order it for me.



Are you kidding?....Lowe's and Home depot have it.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Didn't read through all of this....sorry if its been said.

If you cannot stop the water completely, it will ruin every glue joint on pvc if you don't use a glue similar to rain-r-shine. I learned it a long time ago...roughed in something, and tied in last since it the toilet was running by the flapper or something. Anyways, everything was great except the last few glue joints. It wasn't me or the glue, it was the water. Lesson, use cast...lol


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> We used heavy bodied gray weld-on to glue together large diameter irrigation lines when I worked in the irrigation industry.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


Heavy duty in the green can is good up to 12" I think. What were you irrigating?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> Heavy duty in the green can is good up to 12" I think. What were you irrigating?


Mostly shrubs, plants/beds, grass, athletic fields, and some agricultural stuff- that's what we dealt with. anything larger then 2in got that heavy bodied gray. We would use the heavy bodied glue on 2in pipe located at well heads/ pump sets and for the piping accosiated with the well head/ pump set.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## dankman (Nov 19, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> Can't stand multi purpose. That's my supply houses idea of cpvc and abs glue. I can see no ABS since they don't sell it but they do not carry cpvc glue at all, and will not order it for me.


I wouldn't return to that supply house if they refused to order a product that is necessary to complete my job correctly, especially something like cpvc cement.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

In light of having a good arguemen the code book had to be looked in. 

According to the UPC/Indiana Code book a PVC solvent has to meet ASTM standard D2564-80.

Oatey multi-purpose glue meets that standard 

http://www.oatey.com/Channel/Shared/ProductGroupDetail/1/All_Purpose_Cement.html

The more reading on this, and thinking about the job has lead me to a conclusion as to the problem. One, there was two much water, so a Rain or Shine should have been used. Two, the multi-purpose was probably not in the best condition. 

Solution: Carry Rain or Shine and go back to standard PVC cement.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Gettinit said:


> Heavy duty in the green can is good up to 12" I think. What were you irrigating?


The green heavy is the only cement I use...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Indie said:


> Rick said Multi-purpose glue is not code. As another plumber in Indiana, do you know if that is true? I've never heard that or read that, so far as I can remember.


Indie, how many times have you known me to give bad info? :laughing:

It's just something I learned when I was an inspector.

Read the can, no nsf, upc or even csa approvals.

Check your code book for required approvals.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> Are you kidding?....Lowe's and Home depot have it.


I get it at lowes.



dankman said:


> I wouldn't return to that supply house if they refused to order a product that is necessary to complete my job correctly, especially something like cpvc cement.


You are assuming there is another option in town:laughing:. They get me my Blue rector, so I'm happy. I can't get deburring tools or plastic slip joint rings 1 1/2 or 1 1/4. One guy there didn't know what Sch 80 PVC was. They can order wirsbo but no one here uses it, no smith blairs. 

You deal with what you got in a small town, thankfully we got the interweb.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I think all of you are overlooking the obvious.

ND - Were you sniffing the glue first? :laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

PC may be right :laughing:

I was just pointing out a code issue that some may not be aware of on the multi-purpose cement. It prolly didn't have anything to do with the leak unless it was bad. Sometimes you get a little PVC that seems to have been contaminated and just wont take the primer and cement.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> Indie, how many times have you known me to give bad info? :laughing:
> 
> It's just something I learned when I was an inspector.
> 
> ...


I did verify with my code book, and Oatey. 



Phat Cat said:


> I think all of you are overlooking the obvious.
> 
> ND - Were you sniffing the glue first? :laughing:


Within 5 minutes of working with cleaner and glue I become a much happier person. Hope I don't have a problem. 


Went back cut out what I did, and reworked it all with a Rain or Shine Do-it best version. Not leaks to report. 

Did find that the softener was stuck, and was the reason for the water spilling through. 

Got a $30.00 dollar tip, which helped offset the rework I ate.


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

Indie said:


> I did verify with my code book, and Oatey.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very honorable


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Indie said:


> I did verify with my code book, and Oatey.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Indie, you used the word cleaner, you meant primer, right?


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> Indie, you used the word cleaner, you meant primer, right?


Yes, that is what I meant. At times I use the words interchangeably. Probably the glue sniffing. Lol


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Indie said:


> Yes, that is what I meant. At times I use the words interchangeably. Probably the glue sniffing. Lol


That's what I figured.

While we were talking about solvent welded joints, you would be amazed at how many long time plumbers think that cleaner and primer are the same. There are a lot that are not aware that it is a 3 step process and the majority of us skip the 1st, including myself.

The 1st is the cleaner to remove dirt and lettering.

The 2nd is the primer to prepare for the bonding.

The 3rd is the cement to bond the joint.

I am just posting that for any that may have not had the process explained.

That is why I never allowed cans to be duct taped together. I had to know what they were using.

I know it sounds elementary, but you would be amazed how many plumbers I ran into that were not aware of why the process was required.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> That's what I figured.
> 
> While we were talking about solvent welded joints, you would be amazed at how many long time plumbers think that cleaner and primer are the same. There are a lot that are not aware that it is a 3 step process and the majority of us skip the 1st, including myself.
> 
> ...


 






I never heard that. Not saying it's not so, mind you. When I started in the trade, solvent welding PVC was (2) step: clear cleaner, then PVC cement. Then the code mandated primer. So then we used a new (2) step process: purple primer, then PVC cement.

One shop I worked for back in the day, the boss used only (1) can! He claimed on PVC DWV you only needed to solvent weld with cement, he omitted the cleaner!!(back then we were using clear cleaner). That boss used to do ground roughs with only (1) can.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I never heard that. Not saying it's not so, mind you. When I started in the trade, solvent welding PVC was (2) step: clear cleaner, then PVC cement. Then the code mandated primer. So then we used a new (2) step process: purple primer, then PVC cement.
> 
> One shop I worked for back in the day, the boss used only (1) can! He claimed on PVC DWV you only needed to solvent weld with cement, he omitted the cleaner!!(back then we were using clear cleaner). That boss used to do ground roughs with only (1) can.


What I quoted above are manufactures requirements.

I had 2 yrs of benefit that most plumbers don't enjoy, and that was inspecting.

I got paid everyday to study approvals, manufactures recommendations and you name it. If I "Red tagged" a job, I had to know and be able to back up everything I said. Our BO did not allow our opinions and that was a good thing.

We had plumbers that would be in his office asking why, and I better be able to back it up with code and the proper interpretation. If I had any question, I was on the phone to the code body for clarification.

Cleaner has never been enforced anywhere in Texas I have worked, but primer has always been.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

TallCoolOne said:


> I only use the Blue Hot GLue and Purple prime for PVC DWV lines...


 






I thought I had some clear PVC cleaner left, but I can't find any. Must have used it. 

This is what I use.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> What I quoted above are manufactures requirements.
> 
> I had 2 yrs of benefit that most plumbers don't enjoy, and that was inspecting.
> 
> ...


 





Rick, in line with your post, I failed an inspection on a shower pan liner because my outside corners (on the curb) didn't have the pre-made dam corners glued on. Inspector told me that the manufacturer requires the dam corners on the liner. I replied that I didn't cut the shower pan liner below the curb; all I did was fold and secure it. He said it didn't matter. I didn't argue, I did what he asked. But it was absolutely pointless to install the dam corners on the curb.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

IPS tells you you don't need primer, let alone cleaner, if local codes permit. 

Page 14, the tell you how to use epoxy and fiberglass mat to repair a joint. :blink:

http://www.weldon.com/pdf/weldon/WeldOn_SolventWelding_Guide_Jun09.pdf


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> IPS tells you you don't need primer, let alone cleaner, if local codes permit.
> 
> Page 14, the tell you how to use epoxy and fiberglass mat to repair a joint. :blink:
> 
> http://www.weldon.com/pdf/weldon/WeldOn_SolventWelding_Guide_Jun09.pdf


I don't think I will be using Weldon.

It appears that they have written theirs now to put 100% liability on us as far as the joining method. Must have come from the failures on jobs they mentioned they had to visit.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Oatey hasn't changed.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> That's what I figured.
> 
> While we were talking about solvent welded joints, you would be amazed at how many long time plumbers think that cleaner and primer are the same. There are a lot that are not aware that it is a 3 step process and the majority of us skip the 1st, including myself.
> 
> ...


When the instructor taught that in apprentice school he was scoffed at by most of the class. He openly admitted that he did not bother with step one either, but wanted us to know the proper way. 

The second year instructor said the same thing, and went further to say the when PVC first came out they have to chamfer and ream all cut ends of pipe, then the 3-step. He was about 10 years older than the 1st year guy. 

Both sad the way we plumb now is sad in comparison to what both had to do in their youth. After listening to them, I would agree. The third year instructor had been in and around the trades for 55 years, and gave us all sorts of hell for our lack of craftsmanship. :laughing: Loved that guy, and got along with him very well.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I have seen massive changes during my career, IMO most of it came from the influence of the Plastic industry and builders groups wanting to cut cost at the price of quality. Plastic has been good for some things, but it has cheapened a lot also.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Indie said:


> When the instructor taught that in apprentice school he was scoffed at by most of the class. He openly admitted that he did not bother with step one either, but wanted us to know the proper way.
> 
> The second year instructor said the same thing, and went further to say the when PVC first came out they have to chamfer and ream all cut ends of pipe, then the 3-step. He was about 10 years older than the 1st year guy.
> 
> Both sad the way we plumb now is sad in comparison to what both had to do in their youth. After listening to them, I would agree. The third year instructor had been in and around the trades for 55 years, and gave us all sorts of hell for our lack of craftsmanship. :laughing: Loved that guy, and got along with him very well.


Drainage, not so much. But any pressurized solvent weld joint I prepare includes properly chamferred ends.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I carry around a can of all purpose glue for the few ABS to PVC transitions I do.

I get the smalllest can. It jells up before I finish the can.

It works great , but I wouldn use it for everything 

PVC gets HD Oatey


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

U666A said:


> Drainage, not so much. But any pressurized solvent weld joint I prepare includes properly chamferred ends.


Agreed, I debur and chamfer the ends on all pressurized lines-reason why, is a non chamfered end tends to push all the glue to the back of the fitting and leaves very little glue in the socket, this will cause leaks.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

101 Posts without a political, moral, ethical, religious slant. No in-fighting.

Must be the full moon.

How refreshing.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

PLUMB TIME said:


> 101 Posts without a political, moral, ethical, religious slant. No in-fighting.
> 
> Must be the full moon.
> 
> How refreshing.



Its a legitimate discussion on a plumbing issue. I figured it might go 25 posts. :laughing:



Do you folks use Rain or Shine all the time, or just in wet conditions? 

Oh, and I bought a can of Heavy Duty green label Oatey PVC glue. Best to return to what I was taught.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I use rain n' shine only in wet conditions

Heavy duty green label for water treatment systems, well systems, larger diameter pressure pipe- 1 inch up to 2in

Heavy bodied gray for anything bigger then 2 in with the exception of the plumbing around well heads and pumping packages that is 2 inch and larger.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

Indie said:


> Its a legitimate discussion on a plumbing issue. I figured it might go 25 posts. :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 wet condtions only..


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Repairs I am prone to R&S unless I want it to look really good.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I use Grey for DWV, Blue for pressure. Fernco/No-Hub on PVC to ABS, Flowguard on CPVC.



Rick,

If there is a 3 step process, then why ain't it on the Texas license exam? Not saying your incorrect, in fact you are probably right. I've never heard of it before, guess you can learn something new everyday.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

We use the heavy duty green label for the bigger dwv lines and regular glue for the smaller stuff.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Mississippiplum said:


> We use the heavy duty green label for the bigger dwv lines and regular glue for the smaller stuff.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



How many cans of glue do you carry on one van? Not condemning, but I think it must be at least 4 different glues, or was one of the glues the type you used at another company?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I carry 3 different PVC glues.Grey for DWV, clear for service calls and finals, blue for water lines. I also carry flowguard for CPVC.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Will said:


> Rick,
> 
> If there is a 3 step process, then why ain't it on the Texas license exam? Not saying your incorrect, in fact you are probably right. I've never heard of it before, guess you can learn something new everyday.


Good Question?

I have never heard of the cleaner part either, never seen it mentioned in CE classes either


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

If you look at the ingredients(if you can all it that lol) for Cleaner and Primer, they are the same thing except for a few pigments for the purple coloring in primer. 

This is the brand I use: http://www.elchem.com/


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Indie said:


> How many cans of glue do you carry on one van? Not condemning, but I think it must be at least 4 different glues, or was one of the glues the type you used at another company?


We carry 5 different types of glue. I know it's a lot but I can't remember the last time I've had a leak at a solvent weld joint.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Will said:


> I use Grey for DWV, Blue for pressure. Fernco/No-Hub on PVC to ABS, Flowguard on CPVC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know why it has never been enforced. Did you watch the Oatey video I posted, it shows the method that manufactures recommended for years. At one time Weldon was the same. I am going to see what I can find out ASTM standard wise.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

We're lucky in the North East.. There ain't no ABS and nobody cept homeowners uses CPVC. Oh and we can use clear primer too. :thumbsup:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

OK, this would be the reason, even though most manufactures recommend using cleaner. Code such as IPC 605.21.2 (PVC solvent cementing) specified using approved primer and cement. 

During the code development input was given that cleaner was not necessary and adopted that way. If it is spelled out in the code it would be the final say so even over manufactures recommendations.

You can't read ASTM standards for free, and they are expensive.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Code development is some crazy stuff, it is influenced in many ways, manufactures, inspectors, builders groups, etc. That is why we see so many changes over the years. Builders groups become members of the code bodies and say things like " Your killing us with too many vents through the roof" so systems are modified. Not saying the 3 step process was one, that could have come from plumbers or inspectors opinions. You never know unless yo are on the inside.

The guy I took over from was heavy in the code bodies and sponsored by co's like Tyler pipe to assure we would use CI only. When I took over and excepted PVC. Longview was prolly the last city in the state to prohibit DWV PVC. Tyler pipe hated me. :laughing:


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I have ne er used the grey, what is the ad advantage. I always use green hd


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

beachplumber said:


> I have ne er used the grey, what is the ad advantage. I always use green hd


It is made for *LARGE* pipe. Green (heavy body) goes up to 12"...I believe.


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> It is made for *LARGE* pipe. Green (heavy body) goes up to 12"...I believe.


They have specs for same sizes


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

cbeck said:


> They have specs for same sizes


...never read that before. It can be used, no big deal but the grey stuff is thicker to coat the pipe and seal without running out of the joints of larger diameter pipe. I will take your word as I do not see myself dealing with it.


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

I personally like they grey cement myself, super thick


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> ...never read that before. It can be used, no big deal but the grey stuff is thicker to coat the pipe and seal without running out of the joints of larger diameter pipe. I will take your word as I do not see myself dealing with it.


I was just playing around on the Oatey website, that's where I saw the specs. they sell stuff ive never seen. I have never used the green myself either.


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

i'm more confused now, then when this thead started. i was under the impression that clearer and primer where the same. purple primer for new con. so the inspector could see it at a distance. and clear cleaner for repairs so not to stain anything!


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

beachplumber said:


> I have ne er used the grey, what is the ad advantage. I always use green hd



I'm hardcore about my Grey glue. I like the thickness of it, I like how it sets up, can apply smoother with it, and it won't dried out as quick as blue or back out of the fitting once stabbed as easy. I've allways used Grey, that is what I learned to use. I feel the end result is a a much stronger joint that what you will get from clear glue. Grey for DWV, Blue for Pressure.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

I was taught that CPVC only needed glue only, no primer. I used the Oatey and the glue is orange. It is not FlowGaurd.

Can anyone confirm or deny that I need primer on CPVC. I rarely see CPVC and only time I have used it is for existing T&P line on a water heater.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Unless your glue is yellow, you need primer for CPVC.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I'll tell you about a cement challenge. In Iraq we were running 4"-8" sch 80 PVC in 140 degree weather. I ordered gal. cans and roller applicators but rarely did you get what you ordered.

We got cases of quarts and no rollers. All we could do on the 8" was poor it on and use a glove. At 140, sch 80 cement drys very, very fast.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

anyone use this???


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Flow guard glue is "only" supposed to be used with flow guard pipe. I know it will work on others. In my code book if it is not the yellow cpvc glue you have to use primer. I have never used the orange stuff and never had a desire to check the differences.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Flow guard glue is "only" supposed to be used with flow guard pipe. I know it will work on others. In my code book if it is not the yellow cpvc glue you have to use primer. I have never used the orange stuff and never had a desire to check the differences.


I buy about 1 stick of CPVC a year. I learned something new regarding Flowguard only to be used with flowgaurd pipe

:thumbsup:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

TallCoolOne said:


> I buy about 1 stick of CPVC a year. I learned something new regarding Flowguard only to be used with flowgaurd pipe
> 
> :thumbsup:


I have used it with other brands without a problem. I only buy glue adapters to go to copper, so take it with a grain of salt.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

*140 degrees*



SlickRick said:


> I'll tell you about a cement challenge. In Iraq we were running 4"-8" sch 80 PVC in 140 degree weather. I ordered gal. cans and roller applicators but rarely did you get what you ordered.
> 
> We got cases of quarts and no rollers. All we could do on the 8" was poor it on and use a glove. At 140, sch 80 cement drys very, very fast.


Wow! 140 degrees. I heard about the heat over there, but I didn't know it was that hot. Have you written any threads about the experience? I would like to read about it.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

newyorkcity said:


> wow! 140 degrees. I heard about the heat over there, but i didn't know it was that hot. Have you written any threads about the experience? I would like to read about it.


x2 !!


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

newyorkcity said:


> Wow! 140 degrees. I heard about the heat over there, but I didn't know it was that hot. Have you written any threads about the experience? I would like to read about it.




http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/plumbing-iraq-5410/


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I lost pictures of pump rooms and other things we did when my PC crashed. I still have pictures, can they be scanned to a PC?


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

SlickRick said:


> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/plumbing-iraq-5410/


Neat thread thanks!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> I lost pictures of pump rooms and other things we did when my PC crashed. I still have pictures, can they be scanned to a PC?


You bet SR.

I've been scanning old family photos. We also scan all office documents. A Fujitsu Scansnap scanner works great and feeds really fast.


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

Glue is overrated


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## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

Fast fry said:


> Glue is overrated


Yea. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Pipes fit together fine without glue! Easy to modify for adding a sneaky wc when ya feel like it too! :thumbsup:


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> Neat thread thanks!


 
:thumbsup:


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

PrecisePlumbing said:


> Yea. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Pipes fit together fine without glue! Easy to modify for adding a sneaky wc when ya feel like it too! :thumbsup:


I used superglue last month on some PVC , just to see what would happened. 

It was on scrap pieces, it seemed to form a tight bond


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## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

TallCoolOne said:


> I used superglue last month on some PVC , just to see what would happened.
> 
> It was on scrap pieces, it seemed to form a tight bond


I was joking but superglue is amazing. Have you seen the mythbusters superglue episode? I think they lifted over 700 lbs with 5 drops or something


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

I had to change a couple of CPVC fittings/line in my outdoor kitchen last wekend, CPVC glue was shot, used straight PVC glue/sanded pipe and fittings, has held ok so far...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

mtfallsmikey said:


> i had to change a couple of cpvc fittings/line in my outdoor kitchen last wekend, cpvc glue was shot, used straight pvc glue/sanded pipe and fittings, has held ok so far...


hackery alert!!!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> I had to change a couple of CPVC fittings/line in my outdoor kitchen last wekend, CPVC glue was shot, used straight PVC glue/sanded pipe and fittings, has held ok so far...


One company I worked for did that all the time. Never had a joint fail or come apart. Kept cpvc usage to a minimum, but sometimes that is what the customer has.


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