# When a door slams shut. . . .



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Got a call this morning from a long time GC who fired me earlier this summer.

His lowball/replacement Plumber bailed on him this morning when he reached the outer limits of his bid.

I'm going out tomorrow morning to see if I can (or want) to bail him out.

My Inner Child, mean little fuquer that he is, says let him stew for a few days.:furious:

Any thoughts?

The rough-in is less than 35% done and the budget is blown.

I'm seriously tempted to spend half a day wasting his time whilst tearing the low-ballers work apart before telling him to go fuque himself.


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

nows the time to make some money


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I figure you will talk a little shiot tonight, meet with him tomorrow and talk a little more, and if there is money in it you will kick some arse and get it done.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

surfdog said:


> nows the time to make some money


The overall Plumbing budget is blown at less than 35% completion of the rough-in.

I'm going to need money up front and a bullet proof contract with the HO just to show up and unpack my tools.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> I figure you will talk a little shiot tonight, meet with him tomorrow and talk a little more, and if there is money in it you will kick some arse and get it done.


 Probably.

I'm really pissed right now.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Remember it's the Christmas season, you should scrooge him.


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

how do you know the budget is blown did he tell you ha ha


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> Probably.
> 
> I'm really pissed right now.


I don't know how those guy's think, it's really just not a good idea to burn bridges with your plumber.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I was told they take special classes in college on how to screw their subs...I consider this person to be a reliable source.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> Remember it's the Christmas season, you should scrooge him.


 First day of Chanukah for me.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Happy Chanukah to you!


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

surfdog said:


> how do you know the budget is blown did he tell you ha ha


 The fixtures, including rough-in valves, are being provided by the HO -- It was a tight budget to begin with.

I about shiot myself when I saw the winning bid. There was no way I could do it at that price.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Why would the GC even accept a bid so low...Morons, they are...Morons. No offense intended Ron.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Is there a Jewish version of scrooge, besides the Romans.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Why would the GC even accept a bid so low...Morons, they are...Morons. No offense intended Ron.


 Just got off the phone with the GC, his name is Ron, btw.:laughing:

I told him we would be better off if we (I) took a few days to clear our (my) head before looking at the job. He agreed.

I really hate losing GC's over something negotiable, like prices -- Especially when you're shut down before you even have the chance to justify your numbers.

The break-up was acrimonious -- I hope I can get past that. I need to get past that. It's not like folks are busting down my door for work.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Got a call this morning from a long time GC who fired me earlier this summer.


 

No thank you... I'll stay broke and keep my dignity before being any saviour. 



In breakups I never look back. It's a done deal and won't change my mind, ever. 


I owe myself that respect in business.


But if you whore yourself to the dollar, expect a good dry fu*ing in the end if it goes bad.


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't do it


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Be the hero, you have employees so it's not just about you. I am one vindictive mofo but when it comes to being responsible for others sometimes you got to let things slide for their good.


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## EricS (May 2, 2010)

As long as he pays his bills on time and you can fit it in your schedule I would say take it. The homeowner should love that you came in, cleaned up the job and got it rolling again. Maybe even tell a few friends about it.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*expect a good dry fu*kin*



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> No thank you... I'll stay broke and keep my dignity before being any saviour.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think that this falls into that category.....

fool me once, shame on you 
fool me twice ... shame on me...

he is probably bidding this out to others, so who cares
let the job sit for a week before committing to anything

you would be wise to get the money up front if you 
take on the job.....


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I would like the GC to bath in his own dirty water....

Let him finnish what he started and that is by not taking the right price the first time...

I would just tell... Geee I am sorry ... I am all booked up maybe next time...

You already know the job is going south... so why would you want to step into that mess...

Its a lot easier to lose money than make it....and this is a losing affair


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Money is money. Unless you're risking not getting paid, go get that check and find out the other guy's story while you're at it. Was the other guy bonded?


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## PlumberJ (Dec 12, 2011)

I wouldent do it. Plain and simple.


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## Dun' Right (Sep 27, 2010)

I had a very similar thing happen with a GC that I did work for when I started out. He doesn't respect the plumbing trade and whenever he can does his own plumbing. (oh yeah, mr hackitall). Well, in the process of really turning into a company, and raising my prices to where they should be, he stopped working with me and had some hack do the work for him/did the work for himself. 

Well he called me because the city had him over a barrel over not having a licensed plumber on his permit, and they shut his job down. (he's a flipper)

He called me, and immediately apologized and started acting all buddy buddy, and told me to just name the price. 

I bid it for double what I would normally charge anybody. He paid 50% before I went to the city to pull the permit, and he paid 50% on completion. 

I haven't heard from him since, but it taught us both a little about burning bridges. 

At the time I was busy as hell and it was really hard for me to fit him into my schedule. I made it happen, made a nice paycheck from him, and he knows I over charged big time. 

I think he takes me and plumbing a little more serious now. 

I guess what I'm saying is you need to teach his ass a lesson he won't soon forget. :thumbsup:


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Wow some areas of the United States are doing Damn good.
I would be thankful,although I'm sure some of you have worked hard for your placement in the communities you serve.

Maybe some companies invest in advertising for service work and construction gets second fiddle cause the pay ends up less.
For service I'm still holding on to word of mouth while plumbing companies out here are losing more and more ground to our *poor* $20.00hr minority government susidized handyman(how's that for political correctness?). 

In construction, if your GC called me up I'd be over there in all seriousness. He'd know my dissapointment and maybe I'd get alot closer to sarcasm than most out here would dare.But I figure maybe there is one guy who is ready to try a knowledgeable, properly trained professional again.

No freaky price jumps(or breaks).
Lots of money up front(By H/O).

Just business,and I'd be glad to have it.

Edit:
Out here Plumbing Contractors are a nickel a dozen.
I ain't the only plumber in town a contractor is going to get a price from.


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## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

I'd do it. But It would be on my terms and I woud do an amazing thorough shiite hot job to show him exactly why you get what you pay for. You can take the helpful bail out high road, make a buck, teach a lesson and afterwards you can draw a decision on weather to deal with him again.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Being a service plumber I can't really say much about dealing with GC's...

I Don't! :thumbup:

But going back to one has to be a lot like dating and Ex-Girlfriend or, Ex-Wife....

I'm just saying....


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Never can give the guy the trust I would give my "A" rated Generals.


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## UALocal1Plumber (May 13, 2009)

This conversation is crazy.

To the OP: look at the job, determine what your labor and material costs will be, add in your company's margins for profit and overhead, and sell the job to the GC. In other words, treat it like any other job. If you're nervous about getting paid, make sure to have payments in advance or deal with the owner directly. This isn't reinventing the wheel. You have a customer who has said yes to you. That's a big deal. 

do the job and protect yourself like you would anyone else.

Keith


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

The jobsite is going to be vacant for the rest of the week -- My Lead Journeyman and I are going to go by the job this morning to suss it out.

Also, I pulled the licensing info for the Plumbing Contractor who bailed on the job from L&I's website last night -- He's been in business for less than two years and has already accrued 5 citations for using unlicensed labor and failure to properly supervise Trainee's (judging from the dates on the reports, each one was a separate incident). 4 of the 5 citations led to fines for the Plumbing Contractor and the unlicensed labor.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> The jobsite is going to be vacant for the rest of the week -- My Lead Journeyman and I are going to go by the job this morning to suss it out.
> 
> Also, I pulled the licensing info for the Plumbing Contractor who bailed on the job from L&I's website last night -- He's been in business for less than two years and has already accrued 5 citations for using unlicensed labor and failure to properly supervise Trainee's (judging from the dates on the reports, each one was a separate incident). 4 of the 5 citations led to fines for the Plumbing Contractor and the unlicensed labor.


California considers this descrimination to a level of racism.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> First day of Chanukah for me.



Chappy Chanukah!


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

drtyhands said:


> California considers this descrimination to a level of racism.


Warning: This post contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause birth defects and/or reproductive harm...


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

drtyhands said:


> California considers this descrimination to a level of racism.


wth are you talking about ?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I decided to pass. It was some of the worst workmanship I've ever seen in Residential.

It isn't financially feasible to start over from scratch and there is just no way I'm going to have my Companies name linked to this abortion.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> I decided to pass. It was some of the worst workmanship I've ever seen in Residential.
> 
> It isn't financially feasible to start over from scratch and there is just no way I'm going to have my Companies name linked to this abortion.


Wise choice...:thumbsup:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Did he even beg?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Did he even beg?


Nope. He said he was sorry I felt that way and then he hung up.

I suspect completing this house is going to finish him as a GC -- I imagine he knows that as well.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> Nope. He said he was sorry I felt that way and then he hung up.
> 
> I suspect completing this house is going to finish him as a GC -- I imagine he knows that as well.


sorry for you or sorry for himself


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Sometimes low bid is not good.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Not a good times for blunders of such magnitude.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> wth are you talking about ?


 It was sarcasm pointed at the fact that hiring of unlicensed has repercussion.

Anything like that out here due to the use of illegals and it's support throughout would cause the chants of racism.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> Not a good times for blunders of such magnitude.


I'd feel bad for him if he hadn't been such an SOB to me when I first looked at this job with him over the summer.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Nope. He said he was sorry I felt that way and then he hung up.
> 
> I suspect completing this house is going to finish him as a GC -- I imagine he knows that as well.


Been seeing alot of jobs that the GC keeps everything inside with his helpers.
The call came in tonight to replace the sharkbite fittings and "Sharkbite Pipe?" found throughout a guest house a general did last year.This General I'm with knew it was coming out as soon as he saw it today.

Is sharkbite making pipe now?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

drtyhands said:


> Been seeing alot of jobs that the GC keeps everything inside with his helpers.
> The call came in tonight to replace the sharkbite fittings and "Sharkbite Pipe?" found throughout a guest house a general did last year.This General I'm with knew it was coming out as soon as he saw it today.
> 
> Is sharkbite making pipe now?


I've seen the sharkbite PEX -- Pretty scary stuff.

It looks like white PB.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

All plumbers are created equal, GC's all know that. He thought he would take advantage of a new guy turning out for a cheaper price. Just so happens that GC's are all created equal and he got what he had coming.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I've seen the sharkbite PEX -- Pretty scary stuff.
> 
> It looks like white PB.


Yup,
That's how he xplained it.

3/4 whirsbo with tees having white sharkbite 1/2" coming off.Didn't even use 90s.Used tees and capped a stub off the other side of the run.

Guy probably just pulled into the driveway,dropped the guys off with a couple boxes of fittings and pipe and told them to take the bus home.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I'd feel bad for him if he hadn't been such an SOB to me when I first looked at this job with him over the summer.


 Hopefully he can be man enough to put the blame where it lies and he can grow.If he makes it back you two can possibly make another go.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

drtyhands said:


> Been seeing alot of jobs that the GC keeps everything inside with his helpers.
> The call came in tonight to replace the sharkbite fittings and "Sharkbite Pipe?" found throughout a guest house a general did last year.This General I'm with knew it was coming out as soon as he saw it today.
> 
> Is sharkbite making pipe now?



Yep, a guy at my church just put in his own heat pump water heater and tied it into his old heater with sharkbite pipe and sharkbite couplings. I was called out to replace the old ball valve on the heater for him and saw the install.


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## WHTEVO (Mar 16, 2011)

I say if you are sure he pays his bills, go make your money and don't let him talk you down on price.

Aaron


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

I've done it repaired mistakes by others that were "cheaper" get your customer back maybe he learned its his right to make a mistake .Be professional and above the B.S. and most important a 40yr plumber told me.GET THAT MONEY


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

Happened to me...I bit my tongue, smiled, bailed him out, made it all better and made him pay for it. Then reminded him many times during the process how he would have saved a fortune if he just stayed faithfull to his subs that always did him right. Oh yeah I charge him a bit more now than I did before on the next projects after that. The pain of poor workmanship lingers long after the initial pleasure of a lower price.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

damnplumber said:


> Happened to me...I bit my tongue, smiled, bailed him out, made it all better and made him pay for it. Then reminded him many times during the process how he would have saved a fortune if he just stayed faithfull to his subs that always did him right. Oh yeah I charge him a bit more now than I did before on the next projects after that. The pain of poor workmanship lingers long after the initial pleasure of a lower price.


 This was a situation where the HO crying 'poor' was a reality, not a gimmick.

I do feel badly for the HO -- Yes, they over extended themselves trying to keep up with the Joneses, but they were good people who paid their bills.

I would have taken over the job if my contract could have been exclusively with the HO's. Sadly, they listened to their Lawyers and the GC.

I haven't been by there in awhile, but it was pretty much as it was the last time I went by.

Ironically enough, the HO's thanked me at the time for my candor when I passed on it. Now that the GC is out of the picture, I may just look the HO's up and offer a plan that sees the job through to completion.


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## UALocal1Plumber (May 13, 2009)

At this point I do not take projects with GCs anymore. If I can't contract with the owner directly, I generally pass.

Thankfully my situation allows me to be this way, even in this market. But i'm not in business to get migraines and chase after my own money.

Keith


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

UALocal1Plumber said:


> At this point I do not take projects with GCs anymore. If I can't contract with the owner directly, I generally pass.
> 
> Thankfully my situation allows me to be this way, even in this market. But i'm not in business to get migraines and chase after my own money.
> 
> Keith


You got that right, I soured of GC's a long time ago. If the plumbing trade consisted solely of dealing with GC's I'd have changed careers a long time ago.


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