# Moen posi temp



## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Why cant moen put that dam retaining clip in a package with a new catridge?

So a quick little job turned into a panic when the retainint clip fell in the tile wall when i poped it out.
Had to go into town to a home hardware an buy a $140.00 rough in valve with trim so i can replace the clip i lost in the wall. Now i have to sell a shower valve.
Its a 5 cent part just sell replacements somewhere...my dumb clumspy fault but still frustrating


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

canuck92 said:


> Why cant moen put that dam retaining clip in a package with a new catridge?
> 
> So a quick little job turned into a panic when the retainint clip fell in the tile wall when i poped it out.
> Had to go into town to a home hardware an buy a $140.00 rough in valve with trim so i can replace the clip i lost in the wall. Now i have to sell a shower valve.
> Its a 5 cent part just sell replacements somewhere...my dumb clumspy fault but still frustrating


That’s happened to me a few times, now when I replace a moen shower valve I take the clip and the screws before I scrap the valve.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

canuck92 said:


> Why cant moen put that dam retaining clip in a package with a new catridge?
> 
> So a quick little job turned into a panic when the retainint clip fell in the tile wall when i poped it out.
> Had to go into town to a home hardware an buy a $140.00 rough in valve with trim so i can replace the clip i lost in the wall. Now i have to sell a shower valve.
> Its a 5 cent part just sell replacements somewhere...my dumb clumspy fault but still frustrating





*3pm on a friday* they send me to water on a cottage. We knew for like three weeks these people would be coming that friday evening. You think we could have done it sooner? Phuckin clip fell in the wall of course.


I took a piece of 14awg ground wire from some romex and made my own clip :biggrin:



Now I keep like 5 spare clips on the van at all times. They take up like no space. I agree, *those cheap phucks at moen need to include clips with the cartridges.*


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> canuck92 said:
> 
> 
> > Why cant moen put that dam retaining clip in a package with a new catridge?
> ...


I was actually thinking of using a peice of wire too.
But this house is atleast 800 grand and i didnt want a call back or a flood.
Figured its best to spend 140 bucks on a valve an trim and sell it at another job then risk a big leak.

I get sent to a call to change a sump pump at 3:30 today said the battery back up alarm came on.
This pump is 600 V and a 3" discharge. Were the phuck am i suposed to get that right now lol
So i tossed in a vA1 1/3 h.p LOL 
im gunna go back at 7am and see if the pit drained down by then. Its about 12 feet deep.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Always keep the clips! I think my record is three lost in the wall. That one was like playing the kid game “Operation”. BZzzzzzz!


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> Always keep the clips! I think my record is three lost in the wall. That one was like playing the kid game “Operation”. BZzzzzzz!


When i was an apprentice i forgot to put the clip in turned on the water an the handle shot across the bathroom LOL


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

canuck92 said:


> When i was an apprentice i forgot to put the clip in turned on the water an the handle shot across the bathroom LOL


Done that once! Thankfully tile and half cracked it. Kinda pooped out once I got back up stairs, than it was a run to the basement!


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> Done that once! Thankfully tile and half cracked it. Kinda pooped out once I got back up stairs, than it was a run to the basement!



That's why you never open the valve all the way the first time. Just crack it a bit, you only need pressure to test for leaks and not flow. Then when you're done and coming down anyway you can open the valve all the way. Just don't forget to open it the rest of the way or the guy on call will be pissed lolz:vs_laugh:


If you only open the valve a little and you do have a leak you can flush a toilet or open a faucet right there to relieve most of the pressure so it isn't really leaking while you hump your phat azz back down two flights of stairs to shut the water back off!




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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Yup, keep extras on the service van. 

I have extra clips in the bin with my Moen cartridges. I stock 1222B, 1225B, 1248 and I think 1224's. Plus a few extra plastic knobs and a couple Moen chrome escutcheon plates. For service work, we need this stuff. 

If not on the truck, keep it in your garage.


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## panther (Oct 27, 2010)

canuck92 said:


> Why cant moen put that dam retaining clip in a package with a new catridge?
> 
> So a quick little job turned into a panic when the retainint clip fell in the tile wall when i poped it out.
> Had to go into town to a home hardware an buy a $140.00 rough in valve with trim so i can replace the clip i lost in the wall. Now i have to sell a shower valve.
> Its a 5 cent part just sell replacements somewhere...my dumb clumspy fault but still frustrating


I thought I saw a bag of replacement clips at Fergies, once. But you're right, it would be a good idea if Moen just tossed one in with the new cartridge.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

I just replaced a Moen cartridge and the clip had one broken leg about halfway down. Home Depot was about 2 miles away so I went there first. They don’t carry them. Had to go to Ferguson so I bought two, one for the job and one for the truck. I told the homeowner it’s been holding for years like this but I’m not going to leave it like this. 

Like you guys said, I’ll start keeping the ones from the valves I take out.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Debo22 said:


> Like you guys said, I’ll start keeping the ones from the valves I take out.



Doing service I can't help but save certain parts from faucets. Especially solid cast handles, I never regret saving those. The danco or crest/good vise grip replacement handles are good but no where near as solid as drilling and tapping some holes for a couple set screws. I have a tin with like 12 different sizes of set screws. No metric though, I will re-tap and use imperial stuff. 



I get metric, and I would love if we could switch everything over night, but we can't. Especially with plumbing, I would probably end up carrying double the amount of stuff because I would still have to fix inch sized stuff. I can't stand when companies like grohe sell faucets here with metric screws/nuts/bolts.




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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

My boss emailed Moen showing them that he purchased around 500 positemps last year... Plus various other products... Basin and kitchen faucets... Single and two handle..

Now they just send him cases of retaining clip, handles, catridges various other stuff... Only cartridge we don't stock yet is new 1255 but I told him that he needs to get them because new faucets have them..

Moen catridges only last so long that's why they are free... But hey they are easy to work on design is simple...

Had a customer with Kohler tub and shower faucets took 3 weeks to get parts from states.. Arggg..

Moen has some decent looking trims available too.. I like the all black one can't remember the name right now


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Venomthirst said:


> Moen catridges only last so long that's why they are free... But hey they are easy to work on design is simple...



So you think moen 1200 series cartridges aren't durable yet some how they've become one of the most common cartridges by dumb luck?


With any cartridge design durability is *dependent on local water quality*. Around here we usually have high lime content. Dissolved lime will fall out of solution and build up where you have large pressure changes as you would in the restricting portion of a shower valve. Best I can tell the 1200's are resistant to this buildup because the surfaces which would accumulate lime are constantly wiped by the inner portion.


Somewhere I have a chrome plated 1200 that has to be from 50's at least. It was still good when I took it out a couple months ago. Don't get me wrong, there are also places around here where moen valves schit the bed real quick and you're better off with a symmons or delta.




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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Venomthirst said:
> 
> 
> > Moen catridges only last so long that's why they are free... But hey they are easy to work on design is simple...
> ...


I had quite a few delta catridges break apart trying to get them out, and the valve is some flimsy some just break.
If people are willing to spend some money but not a crazy amount just tell them to check out riobel.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Rio...bel is not really good and I always have to threaten them to get parts. To top it off if the seal fail it will drip in the wall unlike moen if it fails it will drip in the tub. Plus its just a localized brand.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> So you think moen 1200 series cartridges aren't durable yet some how they've become one of the most common cartridges by dumb luck?
> 
> 
> With any cartridge design durability is *dependent on local water quality*. Around here we usually have high lime content. Dissolved lime will fall out of solution and build up where you have large pressure changes as you would in the restricting portion of a shower valve. Best I can tell the 1200's are resistant to this buildup because the surfaces which would accumulate lime are constantly wiped by the inner portion.
> ...









I know that you have the kooky-looking stem and seat removal tool made for Symmons valves, right? The Symmons that I am thinking of has two different seats. The hot and cold seats are different sizes.

I have that tool made by Symmons. But around these parts I don't run into Symmons valves. I saw them frequently down in S. Florida.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> I know that you have the kooky-looking stem and seat removal tool made for Symmons valves, right? The Symmons that I am thinking of has two different seats. The hot and cold seats are different sizes.
> 
> I have that tool made by Symmons. But around these parts I don't run into Symmons valves. I saw them frequently down in S. Florida.





I don't think the "raven" wrench where the pieces are welded into a cross is actually made by symmons. We have one in the shop. I just have the standard cross drilled square bar and cross bar on the van. I also have a whole bag full of extractors of every type and I have so many seat wrenches I don't feel the need to get one of the raven tools. 


We have a bunch of symmons around here but I usually only deal with one or two a year. Funny enough I dealt with two the week before last. I was pissed on the second one because I hadn't restocked my spindle yet and I was like 45mins from the shop. I put a gator skin washer on though and all was fine. Had to drill the center out larger. I would love to find some replacement washers with the correct size hole but I may just get a hole punch for in the van.




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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> So you think moen 1200 series cartridges aren't durable yet some how they've become one of the most common cartridges by dumb luck?
> 
> 
> With any cartridge design durability is *dependent on local water quality*. Around here we usually have high lime content. Dissolved lime will fall out of solution and build up where you have large pressure changes as you would in the restricting portion of a shower valve. Best I can tell the 1200's are resistant to this buildup because the surfaces which would accumulate lime are constantly wiped by the inner portion.
> ...


I've had quite a few times where the older style Moen just seized in valve and couldn't remove it... Pressure balanced or anti scald Moen is best.. Best ever is Mueller pulled 70 year old cartridges out seats were in perfect shape just rubbers gone..


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Venomthirst said:


> I've had quite a few times where the older style Moen just seized in valve and couldn't remove it... Pressure balanced or anti scald Moen is best.. Best ever is Mueller pulled 70 year old cartridges out seats were in perfect shape just rubbers gone..





The moen 1200 series can/does come with a separate pbv spool.


Mueller? Never heard of mueller shower valves. I have some monel seats kicking around I save for customers who really like their faucets and I know will keep them for a long time.




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## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

You guys know you can buy just the clips, right?

I have a bag called the Jesus Pin bag. It has all my cartridge pins, clips for moentrol shutoffs, a bonnet nut for the newer deltas, and new screws for the kohler rite temp if I drop any.

Huge life saver.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Yes, i now have a crap load on my truck too, supply house didnt stock the pins at one point.
I guess they recently started


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

Venomthirst said:


> I've had quite a few times where the older style Moen just seized in valve and couldn't remove it... Pressure balanced or anti scald Moen is best.. Best ever is Mueller pulled 70 year old cartridges out seats were in perfect shape just rubbers gone..


Around here the Moen cartridges are almost always frozen in the valve and impossible to remove. Almost always results in a valve replacement.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Heat it up with a tourch an use a cartridge puller, the only ones iv had a hard time with is usually the deltas, they just fall apart in peices inside


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

How much trouble to use one to replace a Kohler shower valve inside a tile wall with other access ?


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## Paulie B (Oct 22, 2011)

Around here symmons dominates the shower valve world. It sucks they changed the design a few years back with the new roundish handle. And also changed the seat design requiring the new tool. But still use the same ole TA-10 spindle. I probably sell 100 spindles a year. Second most popular valve is the kohler 304. I maybe run into one or two moen shower valves all year. Plenty of the old style moen kit and bath faucets though. Sometimes you think your gonna rip the sink off the counter top pulling the old brass spindle out. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Iv only came across 1 symonds valve in the projects in a hoard i just walked away. Not sure why i even athempted to get the bathroom.

Just one of thoughs days that will only stick to me lol


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Logtec said:


> That’s happened to me a few times, now when I replace a moen shower valve I take the clip and the screws before I scrap the valve.


I do the same thing,if you don't have extra moen clips around do not work on a moen faucet until you do


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Paulie B said:


> Around here symmons dominates the shower valve world. It sucks they changed the design a few years back with the new roundish handle. And also changed the seat design requiring the new tool. But still use the same ole TA-10 spindle. I probably sell 100 spindles a year. Second most popular valve is the kohler 304. I maybe run into one or two moen shower valves all year. Plenty of the old style moen kit and bath faucets though. Sometimes you think your gonna rip the sink off the counter top pulling the old brass spindle out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I pulled this brass one out the other day. It ain't too old but it's still pretty old. Customer said reno was about 1995. Still worked alright, mechanism was a bit grabby. Started leaking from the stem a bit.


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## Dirt40 (Nov 29, 2020)

I tend to hoard/collect parts off old faucets and stuff that I might use later if it's still good. I made my own tool to get those impossible old brass Moen cartridges out easy peasy. It's mostly Moen and Delta around here.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Dirt40 said:


> I tend to hoard/collect parts off old faucets and stuff that I might use later if it's still good. I made my own tool to get those impossible old brass Moen cartridges out easy peasy. It's mostly Moen and Delta around here.


Hate delta ...hate kohler even more


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

canuck92 said:


> Hate delta ...hate kohler even more


What he said


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> What he said


I had to install an all plastic delfa kitchen faucet yesterday with those plastic lines. It made me super nervous and all of a sudden 2 ferrules fell from the box. Told the guy I'm not cutting those lines!!!!


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> I had to install an all plastic delfa kitchen faucet yesterday with those plastic lines. It made me super nervous and all of a sudden 2 ferrules fell from the box. Told the guy I'm not cutting those lines!!!!


They are cheap as hell aren't they??no metal/brass in them at all,it's a shame delta has fell by the wayside


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> They are cheap as hell aren't they??no metal/brass in them at all,it's a shame delta has fell by the wayside


Moen is going the same route, the chateau/manor line which was the best grade for contractors and were made of copper/brass. A few years ago they turned into some type of alloy which is still what I used but this summer they have become all plastic. I bought all the discontinued one in the 2 cities. Now if I want copper/brass ones I have to special order them.

Same problem with lav faucets, my supplier only sell plastic crap brand, the last one literally broke in several pieces while I was installing it. I returned that $hit and special ordered quality moen.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Tango said:


> I had to install an all plastic delfa kitchen faucet yesterday with those plastic lines. It made me super nervous and all of a sudden 2 ferrules fell from the box. Told the guy I'm not cutting those lines!!!!


I dont cut them either, unless its for a pedistal sink.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> I had to install an all plastic delfa kitchen faucet yesterday with those plastic lines. It made me super nervous and all of a sudden 2 ferrules fell from the box. Told the guy I'm not cutting those lines!!!!





canuck92 said:


> I dont cut them either, unless its for a pedistal sink.


Yeah, you never cut the attached supply lines. Yes they come with nylon ferrules but if those were actually good enough they wouldn't have the different style pre-attached from the factory. When those first came out we had one blow out on a job, luckily while our guys were still on site. Since then we refuse to cut them regardless of the situation. If customers don't like it we tell them to buy something else. I have had a couple get pissed at me for making the big loops and flat out refusing to cut them. I told them go ahead and call the office, they'll tell you the same thing.


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