# Strongest Root In The Universe...



## AssTyme

Not sure what species of tree these are from but they are tough as barbed wire. Never came across anything like them


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## Plumbducky

Just had some similar to that at a septic tank inlet. Must have ground on them for 10-15 minutes.


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## theplungerman

I thought you have been to the other side of the mountain and back already and would have run across this scenario by now.


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## Plumbducky

theplungerman said:


> I thought you have been to the other side of the mountain and back already and would have run across this scenario by now.


First time for me


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## Drain Pro

AssTyme said:


> Not sure what species of tree these are from but they are tough as barbed wire. Never came across anything like them



That's an appetizer for my Warthog. 😝😝


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## AssTyme

Drain Pro said:


> That's an appetizer for my Warthog. ����



What amazes me about the roots is the strength. They are stronger than hell I can twist & pull but they remain intact. Like I said they are almost like barbed wire.


Must be one of those west coast trees... :whistling2:


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## Redwood

A 1/2" chain flail on a 4018 might slow down a little bit...

But that's okay it will just be telling me to feed slow for a little bit...

Toothpicks is what I see...


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## Unclog1776

For someone who talks so much crap about jetters you want to post that pic like its a big deal??? Just another sewer when you have a warthog.

Hell a pressure washer with a RR on it would slice dice and mulch that in one spin


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## Tommy plumber

Maybe you need to step up to a K-60 and show those puny roots who's boss......


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## Unclog1776

If this is a "bad" clog for you then I understand why you don't feel the need for a jetter


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## cjtheplumber

A jetter can handle that:yes::laughing:


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## AssTyme

OK... you guys are not understanding... I would not have posted this tiny root mass without a reason. 

These SOB's are strong as steel !

Just sayin', poke your fun.....


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## AssTyme

cjtheplumber said:


> A jetter can handle that:yes::laughing:



Yeah no chit, my medium duty Spartan 300 handled this chit ! Reread my original post and rethink your reply :blink:


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## Unclog1776

The post is titled strongest roots in the universe. That would imply they were hard to cut. Since you have no experience with a Jetter let me explain. What you are showing as a "strong mass" would be turned into saw dust by even the most basic of jetters


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## AssTyme

Unclog1776 said:


> The post is titled strongest roots in the universe. That would imply they were hard to cut. Since you have no experience with a Jetter let me explain. What you are showing as a "strong mass" would be turned into saw dust by even the most basic of jetters




Hey Sherlock, I ripped these out with my 300. The fact remains these roots are steel like in strength.

You want them mailed to you ?


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## Unclog1776

Not steel. My Jetter won't turn steel into dust. My Jetter would turn those into dust


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## AssTyme

Unclog1776 said:


> Not steel. My Jetter won't turn steel into dust. My Jetter would turn those into dust



Maybe you should take some time to learn how to properly cable a line ? Your jetter might not seem so cool...


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## gear junkie

Unclog1776 said:


> If this is a "bad" clog for you then I understand why you don't feel the need for a jetter


It doesn't matter what he pulled out. The real question is how many roots did he leave behind?


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## Tounces

Why is there so much petty fighting among the drain cleaners here? I mean wtf?


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## ToUtahNow

No question, a jetter is the best way to go with tough roots. We have a lot of Heritage Oaks which are probably the strongest root around.

Mark


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## Tommy plumber

I'm waiting for the show.....:boxing:


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## PPRI

I'm waiting for a picture of the tree.


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## theplungerman

Tounces said:


> Why is there so much petty fighting among the drain cleaners here? I mean wtf?


I think it's 1 drain cleaner and a number of Plumbers who aren't pleased with his continuous running of his mouth about jetters not (basically not) necessary. As if he's the GOAT drain cleaner who posses amazing abilities coupled with JUST his cables. That if we were as great as him we wouldn't need jetters.


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## sierra2000

AssTyme said:


> Yeah no chit, my medium duty Spartan 300 handled this chit ! Reread my original post and rethink your reply :blink:


 How much of a fight did they put up? How much time? Tell the truth.


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## theplungerman

Plumbducky said:


> First time for me


I was referring to butt clock.


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## plbgbiz

AssTyme said:


> Hey Sherlock, I ripped these out with my 300. The fact remains these roots are steel like in strength.
> 
> You want them mailed to you ?


Please ship an ample supply of the demon roots to:
Water Works Plumbing, Inc., 2023 S. Nicklas Avenue, Oklahoma City, OK, 73128-3010

Upon their arrival, I will objectively test the jetter with them. Photos will be taken and then I will gladly ship them back to you so you can put your own hands on the results (shredded remains).

Put up or shut up.


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## theplungerman

plbgbiz said:


> Please ship an ample supply of the demon roots to:
> Water Works Plumbing, Inc., 2023 S. Nicklas Avenue, Oklahoma City, OK, 73128-3010
> 
> Upon their arrival, I will objectively test the jetter with them. Photos will be taken and then I will gladly ship them back to you so you can put your own hands on the results (shredded remains).
> 
> Put up or shut up.


yeah,

I married up too. Most guys do, why is that?


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## AssTyme

sierra2000 said:


> How much of a fight did they put up? How much time? Tell the truth.



Not a major fight had to hit reverse a few times as the blade would bind up.

The only reason I posted these was because I had never seen this type of root before and the strength/rigidness is unbelievable. Somewhat reminds me of petrified wood.


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## Unclog1776

AssTyme said:


> Not a major fight had to hit reverse a few times as the blade was bound up. The only reason I posted these was because I had never seen this type of root before and the strength and rigidness is unbelievable. Somewhat reminds me of petrified wood.


We all understand that you have never seen big roots before. What you aren't getting is most of us with jetters deal with roots way worse than that on a regular basis


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## PPRI

What kind of tree was up top? I can't identify species of tree by roots.


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## AssTyme

PPRI said:


> What kind of tree was up top? I can't identify species of tree by roots.



There were a few smaller/mid sized trees out front but I couldn't identify them. Tree expert I'm not.


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## cjtheplumber

This threat is too funny:laughing::laughing:

AssTyme,

The debate of a snake vs jetting is one that can go on and on...

You are good at snaking but every tool has a place in our industry. A jetter is I won't say one of the best, but the best tool for cleaning drains with grease, hard build up and roots and who know what else. Oh yeah also works great as a super pressure washer. I know you dislike jetters very much but all you have to do is try one. I'm talking a good jetter with the right nozzles and let us know how it goes with the roots:yes: For now keep snaking I guess:laughing:


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## Unclog1776

http://youtu.be/6LGhUYJz4aA

These are pretty decent roots.


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## AssTyme

Was this thread supposed to have ANYTHING to do with a jetter ????

You guys turned it that way !

Anything I post about YOU guys turn it into a jetter vs cable thread !


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## Unclog1776

AssTyme said:


> Was this thread supposed to have ANYTHING to do with a jetter ???? You guys turned it that way ! Anything I post about YOU guys turn it into a jetter vs cable thread !


If I showed up to build a deck and started whining about how tough the screws are to put in with a screwdriver someone might offer me a drill


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## AssTyme

Here is a small piece of that root mass not much bigger than a tooth pick. Holding a 10+ pound power feed unit no problem.


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## cjtheplumber

Any time you hear jetter I can see you doing this :icon_redface::laughing::laughing:

Just saying those roots would disappear with a jetter:laughing: or you can pull them with a snake both work:thumbsup:


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## Unclog1776

AssTyme said:


> Here is a small piece of that root mass not much bigger than a tooth pick. Holding a 10+ pound power feed unit no problem. http://s125.photobucket.com/user/AssTyme/media/IMG_1027_zpssbaaybpp.jpg.html


Ok...


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## Letterrip

Unclog1776 said:


> If I showed up to build a deck and started whining about how tough the screws are to put in with a screwdriver someone might offer me a drill


I have to admit, that made me laugh!!


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## AssTyme

Some of you guys just can't let it go... what does that say... :whistling2:


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## Unclog1776

AssTyme said:


> Some of you guys just can't let it go... what does that say... :whistling2:


What this whole thread says is that you busted yourself out. You have been rambling on about how you can clear any root blockage with your auger then you post a pic of these baby roots like its a big deal!!! Even the smallest of jetters would have made short work of that blockage. 

Just face it dude. You just made the point for jetters better than any of us could simply by posting that pic. 

Those roots are no big deal at all. You clearly look at them as some sort of accomplishment which for an auger they somewhat are. The truth is for a Jetter that root mass and ones three times the size are just another day at the office for a Jetter with proper nozzles and operator.


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## Tommy plumber

I still don't understand why assy had so much trouble getting through those roots. I mean they don't look like they are that much thicker than dental floss. I'm being serious here and not joking. Maybe the cutter blade is really dull.

Assy, how sharp is the cutter blade that you're using?


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## AssTyme

Unclog1776 said:


> What this whole thread says is that you busted yourself out. You have been rambling on about how you can clear any root blockage with your auger then you post a pic of these baby roots like its a big deal!!! Even the smallest of jetters would have made short work of that blockage.
> 
> Just face it dude. You just made the point for jetters better than any of us could simply by posting that pic.
> 
> Those roots are no big deal at all. You clearly look at them as some sort of accomplishment which for an auger they somewhat are. The truth is for a Jetter that root mass and ones three times the size are just another day at the office for a Jetter with proper nozzles and operator.





Are you seriously OK ? Do you actually read my full posts ? Your replies don't seem to most always make any sense ??? You seem to only want to keep pushing your water toy on me when it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.


PLEASE SIT DOWN, RELAX, REMAIN CALM, READ & REREAD THE BELOW 100 TIMES & THEN REPLY WITH SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY PERTAINS TO WHAT I'VE JUST SAID.

*"The unusual/unfamiliar looking root mass was average in size but the roots were the strongest I've seen for their size."*


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## AssTyme

Tommy plumber said:


> I still don't understand why assy had so much trouble getting through those roots. I mean they don't look like they are that much thicker than dental floss. I'm being serious here and not joking. Maybe the cutter blade is really dull.
> 
> Assy, how sharp is the cutter blade that you're using?




Who said I had any trouble getting through these roots ? The largest part is just smaller in diameter than the average pencil.

OMG....


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## Redwood

AssTyme, You know me pretty well when it comes to snaking a line...

I'm sure you might even be using a few things out of my bag of tricks that were shared over on DCF...

I can pretty much open & clean any line I'm faced with including many that I shouldn't have...

Yep... I've done those dry pack lines, 80' long vitrified clay lines with heavy roots at every joint, heavily greased lines, and even outside lines packed with dirt and organic debris...

Sometimes it was just proving a point, and other times I was carefully weighing whether the time spent getting the jetter was worth it in comparison to the extra time spent snaking the line...

I'm going to say you are wrong about a jet not being needed on a residential line and these tough roots were probably one of those times...

What did the line look like with a camera?


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## AssTyme

I'm not saying these roots were a PITA to cut out. What I'm saying is that after I pulled them from my cutting bit they looked like none I've seen before so I gave them a second look and then discovered how stiff & strong they were.

From what I can tell the whole mass was only connected by one feeder root slightly smaller than the size of a pencil.

Just a very weird, curvy, wire like root mass.


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## Tommy plumber

AssTyme said:


> Who said I had any trouble getting through these roots ? The largest part is just smaller in diameter than the average pencil.
> 
> OMG....












Sorry if I mis-understood what you were stating. Didn't you describe the roots as being like steel and petrified wood? That led me to believe that they were a bear to snake.


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## AssTyme

Redwood said:


> AssTyme, You know me pretty well when it comes to snaking a line...
> 
> I'm sure you might even be using a few things out of my bag of tricks that were shared over on DCF...
> 
> I can pretty much open & clean any line I'm faced with including many that I shouldn't have...
> 
> Yep... I've done those dry pack lines, 80' long vitrified clay lines with heavy roots at every joint, heavily greased lines, and even outside lines packed with dirt and organic debris...
> 
> Sometimes it was just proving a point, and other times I was carefully weighing whether the time spent getting the jetter was worth it in comparison to the extra time spent snaking the line...
> 
> I'm going to say you are wrong about a jet not being needed on a residential line and these tough roots were probably one of those times...
> 
> *What did the line look like with a camera?*




Slumlord home, they most never want any extra's unless it's time to dig.


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## AssTyme

Tommy plumber said:


> Sorry if I mis-understood what you were stating. Didn't you describe the roots as being like steel and petrified wood? That led me to believe that they were a bear to snake.




Yes I said they were strong as Superman but not that bad of a rodding.

Because of their rigidness they even felt weird coming back out of the line.

Sorry for the misunderstanding :thumbsup:


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## Tounces

Unclog1776 said:


> http://youtu.be/6LGhUYJz4aA
> 
> These are pretty decent roots.


That video is kinda dumb. It says "Hydrojetting a line is a much cheaper equally effective solution".

Obviously it's not equally effective, because it only gets the current roots out...it doesn't prevent them from getting back in.


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## Redwood

Tounces said:


> That video is kinda dumb. It says "Hydrojetting a line is a much cheaper equally effective solution".
> 
> Obviously it's not equally effective, because it only gets the current roots out...it doesn't prevent them from getting back in.


I guarantee at least a couple of those hubs were broken as well...

Pay me now or pay me later...
I'll gladly jet the line out a couple of times at $1000 a pop before doing the relining...


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## Unclog1776

Redwood said:


> I guarantee at least a couple of those hubs were broken as well... Pay me now or pay me later... I'll gladly jet the line out a couple of times at $1000 a pop before doing the relining...


What's an average replacement run in your area? I'm able to use my jetters as replacements for mainline augers in my area. I charge what I need to charge which is considerably more than others here charge for auger. So people here do see it as more cost effective to set up a maintenance schedule. 

I don't do replacements. I make my money from repeat customers.


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## Redwood

I'll say somewhere in the $10K - $15K range is typical...
It all depends on length & depth & digging conditions...

Most of the homes better than 95% will have full basements and a good many will have the line below the basement floor... 

In the cities you might have a 20 - 30' in the heavily populated areas or, you might see 60 - 80' in the nicer areas...

Head out to suburbia and you might see 80 - 100' or longer lines to sewers or it might be a short one to a septic tank 15' away from the house...

Really there is no typical but I'd say most of the replacements fall in that range I cited earlier... I've also seen them much higher as well...


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## Drain Pro

Tounces said:


> That video is kinda dumb. It says "Hydrojetting a line is a much cheaper equally effective solution".
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously it's not equally effective, because it only gets the current roots out...it doesn't prevent them from getting back in.



I think that's the dumbest post of this thread.


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## OpenSights

I'm kinda with AssTyme on this one. I've hit a small root ball like that and had to fight to get them... be it the M-300 or the K-750. The worst was from a pepper tree is San Diego. Yes, a GOOD jetter, with a GOOD root cutter could do the trick, but, at least speaking from my vantage point, I don't have the $ yet, and even if I did, some customers just want the min because they can't afford the cost of a jetter.

I've pulled back massive amounts of roots without a fight... talking six foot of roots at the end of my cable. I've also fought the same amounts of roots for 10-15 minutes. Yeah, might a jetter might be better for us, but not for the customers budget. 

The economy in my area was devastated by our former Governor Jennifer grAnHOLm, and has improved slightly by RINO Rick.


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## sierra2000

Redwood said:


> I guarantee at least a couple of those hubs were broken as well... Pay me now or pay me later... I'll gladly jet the line out a couple of times at $1000 a pop before doing the relining...


Right! Jet that line for 8 years and they're at the cost of the sewer liner. At the ninth year jetting has cost them more than lining it would've. I laugh when I see these videos of guys telling homeowners it doesn't need a liner just keep snaking or jetting it. 
If you're not going to keep the house then go ahead and snake or jet but if you're not moving line it.


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## sierra2000

OpenSights said:


> I'm kinda with AssTyme on this one. I've hit a small root ball like that and had to fight to get them... be it the M-300 or the K-750. The worst was from a pepper tree is San Diego. Yes, a GOOD jetter, with a GOOD root cutter could do the trick, but, at least speaking from my vantage point, I don't have the $ yet, and even if I did, some customers just want the min because they can't afford the cost of a jetter. I've pulled back massive amounts of roots without a fight... talking six foot of roots at the end of my cable. I've also fought the same amounts of roots for 10-15 minutes. Yeah, might a jetter might be better for us, but not for the customers budget. The economy in my area was devastated by our former Governor Jennifer grAnHOLm, and has improved slightly by RINO Rick.


Explain/show the customer the results of jetting vs snaking and let them decide what their budget can afford. I stopped prejudging what someone maybe can or can't afford. I've had some customers who by the looks of them, car and the house you would think are dirt poor but they chose the premium option when presented to them.


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## OpenSights

sierra2000 said:


> Explain/show the customer the results of jetting vs snaking and let them decide what their budget can afford. I stopped prejudging what someone maybe can or can't afford. I've had some customers who by the looks of them, car and the house you would think are dirt poor but they chose the premium option when presented to them.


I have, and even denied warranty before camera and jet, or one or the other. I try to help people out as much as possible, without working for free.


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## theplungerman

AssTyme said:


> Some of you guys just can't let it go... what does that say... :whistling2:


Classic example of the pot calling the kettle black


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## OpenSights

theplungerman said:


> Classic example of the pot calling the kettle black


Not trying to piss on boots here, but with a camera and proper cutter vs. jetter and camera, and sometimes all three, I have seen better results than a jetter and camera alone.

Every line is different. Every area is different. What works on one line may not work on the next. Adapt, overcome and learn from it. Drain cleaning is an art... I always say it's like fishing, you have to "feel" the cable. It's not a balls to the walls "push it through" type of job. I damn near lost my left thumb trying to do that once. Try having your thumb tightly wrapped with a 5/8" steel core with your thumb pinched to the clutch and the machine pulling the cable back and failing in the barrel. I was young, dumb and full of.... winter, switch was frozen, but the job was #1... I've learned my lessons.

When it comes to a basic root invasion, I'll choose a cable with the propper cutter over a jetter unless truly needed.


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## AssTyme

sierra2000 said:


> Explain/show the customer the results of jetting vs snaking and let them decide what their budget can afford. I stopped prejudging what someone maybe can or can't afford. I've had some customers who by the looks of them, car and the house you would think are dirt poor but they chose the premium option when presented to them.



Well, since some decided to turn my thread into a discussion about jetting vs cables... :laughing:

I've already shown proof of what the Eel expansion blades can do on a root infested residential and grease packed restaurant line. There's not much difference in the thoroughness of removing the obstructions. Sure in some cases the jetter leaves the line more shiny/squeaky clean but does shiny/squeaky clean really matter ?

So, what truthfully are the "results of jetting vs snaking" ? Is it all about more money in your pocket ?

I have no hatred towards jetters as they are needed in larger commercial, industrial, storm drains, etc... The fact remains that I do not need one.


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## AssTyme

Redwood said:


> I'll say somewhere in the $10K - $15K range is typical...
> It all depends on length & depth & digging conditions...
> 
> Most of the homes better than 95% will have full basements and a good many will have the line below the basement floor...
> 
> In the cities you might have a 20 - 30' in the heavily populated areas or, you might see 60 - 80' in the nicer areas...
> 
> Head out to suburbia and you might see 80 - 100' or longer lines to sewers or it might be a short one to a septic tank 15' away from the house...
> 
> Really there is no typical but I'd say most of the replacements fall in that range I cited earlier... I've also seen them much higher as well...




Here in Wisconsin the cost would be half of that if not less.


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## Plumbducky

AssTyme said:


> Here in Wisconsin the cost would be half of that if not less.


Every job is different, I have done a spot repair for 3500, and I have a repair that was 10g.


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## Absaroka Joe

A jetter is to an excavator as a chiropractor is to a doctor.


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## theplungerman

AssTyme said:


> Well, since some decided to turn my thread into a discussion about jetting vs cables... :laughing:
> 
> I've already shown proof of what the Eel expansion blades can do on a root infested residential and grease packed restaurant line. There's not much difference in the thoroughness of removing the obstructions. Sure in some cases the jetter leaves the line more shiny/squeaky clean but does shiny/squeaky clean really matter ?
> 
> So, what truthfully are the "results of jetting vs snaking" ? Is it all about more money in your pocket ?
> 
> I have no hatred towards jetters as they are needed in larger commercial, industrial, storm drains, etc... The fact remains that I do not need one.


Your not getting it. And statements like this recent one are proof you don't understand what I and others who are pro jetting are saying. 
It is not JUST a matter of more money. It's like your not listening. 
And yes, you don't need one. Just like I didn't need one for 28 years. And still don't need it. 
I and others here know it would be the smarter play to get a jetter. Because if your as good as you say you are, and I'm inclined to think you are. You would be all that AND! a bag of chips. Now your just all that. 
If your not interested in being Mr Totally Awesome, and are OK with Mr Awesome then don't get one. 
The difference between GOAT and great is between the ears.


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## Tounces

Since when is there a set price for digging based on state anyway? I mean companies in an area vary widely even within the same city.


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## AssTyme

Tounces said:


> Since when is there a set price for digging based on state anyway? I mean companies in an area vary widely even within the same city.




Different area's different price that sometimes even varies greatly within the state.


Just like gas prices... :laughing:


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## plbgbiz

AssTyme said:


> Some of you guys just can't let it go... what does that say... :whistling2:


Did you send that package yet?


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## Redwood

AssTyme said:


> Here in Wisconsin the cost would be half of that if not less.


Exactly! Which is why pricing is a really dumb question on the internet...
Just wait until you have prices compared on-line with a drain cleaner in Mumbai...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFe-nJtiByM


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## Redwood

sierra2000 said:


> Explain/show the customer the results of jetting vs snaking and let them decide what their budget can afford. I stopped prejudging what someone maybe can or can't afford. I've had some customers who by the looks of them, car and the house you would think are dirt poor but they chose the premium option when presented to them.


Zackly! I offer options and the customer makes choices..

I've had a few misconceptions on my prejudging of customers as well...

Including on customer that had me doing job after job all day long when he finally gave me some idea of the work to come that day about 2 PM and I called in a buddy to help...

Ghetto Buildings and the owner certainly didn't look rich, it was shaky looking, when I gave him the final total and he says just a minute, and walks away...

A few minutes later he's back with his wife bringing cold drinks and a wad of cash...


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## Will

As soon as the Roots heard the customer was talking to Will Rogers Plumbing on the phone and that they were on there way to address the sewer issues, the Roots would have detached themselves. Even if the roots where like barbed wire, they knew it was hopeless to go up against Will Rogers Plumbing


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## AssTyme

plbgbiz said:


> Did you send that package yet?




No, I'm not doubting your claim. Besides I think they are drying up and starting to lose some of their strength.


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## plungerboy

AssTyme said:


> No, I'm not doubting your claim. Besides I think they are drying up and starting to lose some of their strength.


Put it in some water and ziplock and send it. 

This is going to be a good bench mark for everyone on the zone.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Will said:


> As soon as the Roots heard the customer was talking to Will Rogers Plumbing on the phone and that they were on there way to address the sewer issues, the Roots would have detached themselves. Even if the roots where like barbed wire, they knew it was hopeless to go up against Will Rogers Plumbing


Pretty good, Will.


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## Unclog1776

AssTyme said:


> No, I'm not doubting your claim. Besides I think they are drying up and starting to lose some of their strength.


Dude you argue like my 3 year old son. 

A Jetter will turn a 2x4 into wood chips. You really doubt it will cut those baby roots you probably worked half a day to remove?


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## AssTyme

Unclog1776 said:


> Dude you argue like my 3 year old son.
> 
> A Jetter will turn a 2x4 into wood chips. You really doubt it will cut those baby roots you probably worked half a day to remove?




Your replies to my posts are also somewhat similar to what a 3 year old might say. 

Are you just skimming through reading what you want ? Seriously, what's with you... ???


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## gear junkie

Will said:


> As soon as the Roots heard the customer was talking to Will Rogers Plumbing on the phone and that they were on there way to address the sewer issues, the Roots would have detached themselves. Even if the roots where like barbed wire, they knew it was hopeless to go up against Will Rogers Plumbing


Anybody else read this in Will's Okie accent?


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## Redwood

gear junkie said:


> Anybody else read this in Will's Okie accent?


I think he needs to read it on a YouTube Video...:thumbup:


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## plbgbiz

AssTyme said:


> No, I'm not doubting your claim. Besides I think they are drying up and starting to lose some of their strength.


And I am not alone in doubting yours. The difference is I am offering an unbiased test for which I think I already know the result.

I am giving you an unbiased and objective opportunity to prove us all wrong. I can even ask Will come to be the photographer. I will also welcome suggestions for the setup to make the test as realistic as possible. I was thinking of soaking the roots in water to regain their flexibility. Drill holes in pipe, stick them through, and clamp them down from the outside. Add a coupling and another piece of pipe and the cut the warthog's leash. Whatever happens, happens...on video. A couple of my guys will be there running the equipment so it's not like I'm getting something for nothing.

C'mon AT, let's play.

Maybe we can shoot Red's video at the same time. :laughing:


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## AssTyme

plbgbiz said:


> And I am not alone in doubting yours. The difference is I am offering an unbiased test for which I think I already know the result.
> 
> I am giving you an unbiased and objective opportunity to prove us all wrong. I can even ask Will come to be the photographer. I will also welcome suggestions for the setup to make the test as realistic as possible. I was thinking of soaking the roots in water to regain their flexibility. Drill holes in pipe, stick them through, and clamp them down from the outside. Add a coupling and another piece of pipe and the cut the warthog's leash. Whatever happens, happens...on video. A couple of my guys will be there running the equipment so it's not like I'm getting something for nothing.
> 
> C'mon AT, let's play.
> 
> Maybe we can shoot Red's video at the same time. :laughing:




C'mon... all I did was post a thread about some roots that were unique looking & very strong but were not that bad to remove and you guys want to jump all over them with your squirt guns...

You guys feeling threatened by my cables ???


----------



## ToUtahNow

The biggest advantage to a drain machine over a jetter is the drain machine is a bunch cheaper. I think a drain machine is always my first chose for a drain or sewer. The jetter is for when the drain machine needs help. The worst sewer I ever had was a 2.5" root that was running parallel to a 4" ABS pipe. It never broke the pipe but it flattened out about a 4' section. The best tool for that was a backhoe. Because Heritage Oaks at protected out here, the City had to do the repair.

Mark


----------



## plbgbiz

AssTyme said:


> C'mon... all I did was post a thread about some roots that were unique looking & very strong but were not that bad to remove and you guys want to jump all over them with your squirt guns...
> 
> You guys feeling threatened by my cables ???


I am really curious and anxious to test these demon roots of yours. Will be a fun exercise. No malice or hate. Just good, clean jetter fun. I've ran cables for years and know what they can do in the hands of a master. Wouldn't you like to see what a squirt gun can do?


----------



## theplungerman

AssTyme said:


> C'mon... all I did was post a thread about some roots that were unique looking & very strong but were not that bad to remove and you guys want to jump all over them with your squirt guns...
> 
> You guys feeling threatened by my cables ???


funny,


----------



## theplungerman

plbgbiz said:


> I am really curious and anxious to test these demon roots of yours. Will be a fun exercise. No malice or hate. Just good, clean jetter fun. I've ran cables for years and know what they can do in the hands of a master. Wouldn't you like to see what a squirt gun can do?


i would love to see this. I'm sure it would be a first.


----------



## gear junkie

theplungerman said:


> i would love to see this. I'm sure it would be a first.


It'll probably look like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDr0bmOdDco


----------



## theplungerman

gear junkie said:


> It'll probably look like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDr0bmOdDco


I wonder how many hours it would take to cut a 2 x 4 in half with a cable and blade.


----------



## OpenSights

Oh my word! If I could sell a jet job off the bat instead of a cable... For one I'd own a jetter, two, I'd be ripping people off on what they don't need! Yes, a Jetter is key in many situations, but most of the time a cable works just as good when it comes to roots.


----------



## theplungerman

I'm sure I'm speaking for most jetter owners. We didn't get them to rip people off.


----------



## OpenSights

Not saying a jetter is to rip people off, as I stated, they are a great tool that can be necessary at times, but 90-95% of drain lines in my area only need a cable. The other 5-10% either have a belly, massive soft clog, or have some sort of massive separation or break... In which case a repair is needed.

I've sold many jet jobs, mostly to clear the line enough to see what is going on and make the decision of what to do to correct the issue.

Now my last boss worked in the Grand Rapids area for a number of years and most mains out there are 6" and severely root bound, so for the most part a jetter is the first step. Here, most mains are 4" and a good 3.5-4" cutter is all you need to do the job right.

I only sell what is needed, not what makes me the most money.


----------



## Green Country

OpenSights said:


> I only sell what is needed, not what makes me the most money.



By that logic we would all be driving something close to the original model T.

You don't have to sell anything. Give the customer options and explain the differences. Let them decide what they WANT. If a jetter does a better job and comes with a longer warranty people will CHOOSE that. You don't have to force it on them or trick them. 

You are doing them a disservice by not giving them choices.


----------



## plbgbiz

theplungerman said:


> I'm sure I'm speaking for most jetter owners. We didn't get them to rip people off.


Agreed. But in the interest of full disclosure...EVERY tool I purchase is for the sole purpose of making quicker/easier work of separating a consumer from their money. 

That is the same reason Plumbers buy cable machines instead of flat metal sewer tapes. Are excavators purchased to work harder and save consumers money? Do irrigation guys buy trenchers to save the consumer or to get more money? Are we expected to mothball our Ridgid power vises? I charge just as much for running pipe with a power vise as I do hand threading. Same goes for ProPress.


*ANY PERSON IN THE PLUMBING BUSINESS WORLD THAT STATES THEY BOUGHT ANY TOOL OR PIECE OF EQUIPMENT FOR ANY REASON MORE IMPORTANT THAN MORE EASILY ACQUIRING A LARGER SHARE OF THE CONSUMER'S MONEY, IS EITHER A LIAR OR A FOOL. MOST LIKELY BOTH.
*
I think that needs to be my signature line. :yes:

EVERYTHING in business as an employer or an employee, is about more easily getting more money. If of you Plumbing Business Operators or Plumbing Business Employees don't see it that way, then get back on the porch.


----------



## PPRI

Here's one for the debate. I had a call a couple days ago that 3 other plumbers had tried to open the line. I was called to dig it up. I sent the camera in to locate the obstruction and could tell I was in cast all the way out. The other guys told the owner the line was broke. 

I offered my usual arrangement where I offer to cable it and if it doesn't open they don't owe me anything. If I do open it they owe me $300. Of course they bit. I had it drained in 10 minutes using 1 1/4 cables on my superhawg. 

So now I can at least see what's going on. First problem is the cleanout is a hammer tap into the top of the line. The hole is only about 2 1/2" in diameter. I send the camera down and the root mass is about 25' long and packed tight. I wanted to get my 4" cutter down there and rip some stuff up but it wouldn't fit through the tiny hole in the cleanout. I explained their options and they went with the jetter. 20 minutes after the signature I had that pipe looking like new with not a single root in the line. I also sold them a point repair to fix the one spot where the roots entered the line.

I would have had a heck of a time cleaning that line without the jetter. I couldn't get a big enough blade down there.


----------



## Shoot'N'Plumber

PPRI said:


> Here's one for the debate. I had a call a couple days ago that 3 other plumbers had tried to open the line. I was called to dig it up. I sent the camera in to locate the obstruction and could tell I was in cast all the way out. The other guys told the owner the line was broke.
> 
> I offered my usual arrangement where I offer to cable it and if it doesn't open they don't owe me anything. If I do open it they owe me $300. Of course they bit. I had it drained in 10 minutes using 1 1/4 cables on my superhawg.
> 
> So now I can at least see what's going on. First problem is the cleanout is a hammer tap into the top of the line. The hole is only about 2 1/2" in diameter. I send the camera down and the root mass is about 25' long and packed tight. I wanted to get my 4" cutter down there and rip some stuff up but it wouldn't fit through the tiny hole in the cleanout. I explained their options and they went with the jetter. 20 minutes after the signature I had that pipe looking like new with not a single root in the line. I also sold them a point repair to fix the one spot where the roots entered the line.
> 
> I would have had a heck of a time cleaning that line without the jetter. I couldn't get a big enough blade down there.


What!.....you don't use exapansion cutters?...you drain cleaning hack:laughing:...J/K


----------



## OpenSights

Green Country said:


> By that logic we would all be driving something close to the original model T.
> 
> You don't have to sell anything. Give the customer options and explain the differences. Let them decide what they WANT. If a jetter does a better job and comes with a longer warranty people will CHOOSE that. You don't have to force it on them or trick them.
> 
> You are doing them a disservice by not giving them choices.


I always give choices. But I also give my professional opinion on what is needed and what is not.

I had one LL that had a property that the main kept backing up due to tampons. She was insistent on replacing it. I talked her into a video instead. Line was perfect, just tenant abuse. Saved her thousands.

I've also have had customers, who know more than me, insist I replace this or that despite my recommendations. Sure, if they want me to pay me for unnecessary work, I'll take it.


----------



## dhal22

A backed up drain at a car dealership yesterday had zero access except through the 4 x 1 1/2" cross. I got the water to flow with a smaller cable machine and a 3/8" cable. The camera showed a massive rootball in the pvc pipe. Expansion cutter with a 3/8" cable? Hell no, I dropped a 1/4" jetter hose down the line and ripped the roots out. 

If you don't have both options then you are fooling yourself as to a cable machine being the best option.


----------



## PPRI

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> What!.....you don't use exapansion cutters?...you drain cleaning hack:laughing:...J/K


Actually I have 3 expanding cutters. A 2 blade ridgid, a 2 blade generic that is older than I am and the coveted Electric Eel 3 blade. The only one that would have fit through that hole is the 2 blade ridgid, and lets be honest. The blades on that are wimpy as $hiz. I actually got the 3 blade EE based on AT's reviews and I really do like it. If it's a 6" clay line with the little root curtains I'll hit it once with the expanding and cash the check. 

But... That jetter is not coming off the back of my truck. I have over 800' of cables in different sizes, I use them all and I use them often. But when I send the camera down and have one of those oh crap moments when seeing the mess below, you better believe I'm going to fire up the jetter.

I didn't build my jetter to help me rip off anyone. I didn't build it just to get to the next job faster. I didn't build it to out do every other plumber with a 1/2 snake (that's a lie...I kinda did). 

I built my jetter to facilitate a proper pipe cleaning so I could perform above the customers expectations. I built my jetter to clean the pipe before doing point repairs. I built my jetter because when people call my company they know we can and will take care of them no matter what the situation. They will never hear "we can't do that" from us. We never fail and leave with our tail between our legs. Never.


----------



## fixitright

SELL THEM AN OUTSIDE CLEAN OUT:yes:


----------



## saysflushable

This for some reason is a funny conversation. At least it proves jetters arnt a commodity yet. 
I figure if these jetters were so much easier to operate and the job allowed for the use of a jetter then why would I give a customer any other option. 

Hi Mr so and so. I'm going to lug some heavy crap in your basement and struggle with a root filled sewer just to save you some money. Or if you would be so kind maybe you would pay me more and my job would be easier

What does a better job Mr so and so? Well in 4 inch pipe a jetter and a cable are equal. Even in 6 inch pipe. Ill get it pretty darn clean with the cable, sometimes as good as the jetter. 

What was that Mr.so and so? Use the cable because its cheaper and does a great job, but it is a lot harder on me. OK Mr. So and so I'll sacrifice my body so you can save money and it will take me longer so I will be away from home longer. Sounds good let me get started.


----------



## Green Country

Funny!

After researching jetters recently, mostly due to all the attention from asstyme lol, I think they do a better job. 

If they do a better job you can offer a longer warranty. So those are your selling points. 

Or just get rid of the cable all together lol


----------



## PPRI

Green Country said:


> Funny!
> 
> After researching jetters recently, mostly due to all the attention from asstyme lol, I think they do a better job.
> 
> If they do a better job you can offer a longer warranty. So those are your selling points.
> 
> Or just get rid of the cable all together lol


I've thought about kicking the cables off my truck. It'd leave me more room for repair packers and such. The problem we have is that there is a ton of orangeburg around this area. I won't jet it with the unit mounted in my truck. So our policy is always punch a hole and camera. If its burg then we have to cable or we've had decent success with the small jetter.


----------



## Best Darn Sewer

Green Country said:


> Funny!
> 
> After researching jetters recently, mostly due to all the attention from asstyme lol, I think they do a better job.
> 
> If they do a better job you can offer a longer warranty. So those are your selling points.
> 
> Or just get rid of the cable all together lol


After seeing what my jetter can do for residential and commercial drains, compared to my cables, I rarely take my sewer cable machine off the truck. Why would I? Again, using cables is like using a screw driver when you have a drill at your disposal.


----------



## sierra2000

PPRI said:


> I've thought about kicking the cables off my truck. It'd leave me more room for repair packers and such. The problem we have is that there is a ton of orangeburg around this area. I won't jet it with the unit mounted in my truck. So our policy is always punch a hole and camera. If its burg then we have to cable or we've had decent success with the small jetter.


I like to approach every main clog this way.


----------



## theplungerman

I wish I had my jetter with me today. I put in a 2 way clean out. I cut the problem area out (1 of them) where I put the clean out. The problem I had,,,, was not doing a good job cutting out roots at the last joint before the city. It was that I couldn't be sure of its (the last joint) exact condition. It looked like it may have been cracked. But I couldn't be 100 percent sure. I had put down my expander blade, I had the full diameter of the pipe clear,,,, but like I said I couldn't be sure because there was a little to much left over root and dirt. It's like cutting the grass all the way to the sidewalk but not being able see the side of the sidewalk. Had I had my jetter with me I would have blown that spot (with owners permission) to a sparkle and most likely would have shown the owner a broken joint and then could've sold a spot repair or more digging for more money.


----------



## Redwood

theplungerman said:


> I wish I had my jetter with me today. I put in a 2 way clean out. I cut the problem area out (1 of them) where I put the clean out. The problem I had,,,, was not doing a good job cutting out roots at the last joint before the city. It was that I couldn't be sure of its (the last joint) exact condition. It looked like it may have been cracked. But I couldn't be 100 percent sure. I had put down my expander blade, I had the full diameter of the pipe clear,,,, but like I said I couldn't be sure because there was a little to much left over root and dirt. It's like cutting the grass all the way to the sidewalk but not being able see the side of the sidewalk. Had I had my jetter with me I would have blown that spot (with owners permission) to a sparkle and most likely would have shown the owner a broken joint and then could've sold a spot repair or more digging for more money.


Zackly! Kinda like using the edger along the sidewalk after you cut the grass...


----------



## PPRI

This grass cutting analogy with a mower and a sidewalk is evidently beyond me as it makes absolutely no sense to me.


----------



## theplungerman

let me try it this way,,,,, let's say I'm a doctor and I have a patient with a wound, to best treat that wound I need the area very clean, clear of any debris etcetera so I can see exactly what is torn, cracked, loose, again etc. If my nurse just swiped over it with a wet sponge, there would be several crevices and areas that iI could not make out for certain what is what.


----------



## Tommy plumber

PPRI said:


> This grass cutting analogy with a mower and a sidewalk is evidently beyond me as it makes absolutely no sense to me.












Just cutting the grass looks good, but after edging, the lawn really looks well-manicured. So after tearing through the drain line with a sewer cable and cutter blade, then finish it up neatly with the jetter. The jetter should get all the fine little hair-like roots that the cutter blade leaves behind.


----------



## theplungerman

Tommy plumber said:


> Just cutting the grass looks good, but after edging, the lawn really looks well-manicured. So after tearing through the drain line with a sewer cable and cutter blade, then finish it up neatly with the jetter. The jetter should get all the fine little hair-like roots that the cutter blade leaves behind.


I'm sorry but I don't like this. IMHO it seems relegated it to blow dryer like status. OK the hair is cut, washed,, so why not puff it up and give it a little body with a blow dry..... No I say. 
It's, (the jetter) is a clear away all that is not pipe.


----------



## theplungerman

I'm up loading a job I did today. Main lateral clogged due to roots. Had comby for c/o but blockage was 2 ft before. Can't get my big cable back up but can w 3/8 jetter hose and warthog. And since I had the jetter with water allready in it I decided I'll give him roof clearing costs with cable but use jetter. And since this property has been blocking up to much on him I talked him into a discounted camera job. (He started out when requesting service he just wanted it cleared no this or that. He has many other properties with roots in laterals problems. 
He had a massive root intrusion at the sidewalk. I sold him my jetter camera Vaporooter special. It comes out 200 less and I now have another Vaporooter Treatment set up in a year and he won't be calling me with an emergency due to roots.
https://youtu.be/aQh_WKihDBg


----------



## AssTyme




----------



## AssTyme




----------



## AssTyme

Do you guys REALLY think that knocking the peach fuss off of a sewer in a few locations is REALLY going to make that much of a difference in the longevity :laughing:

In MOST cases it's all about bling at an added cost to the customer.... :yes:


----------



## theplungerman

AssTyme said:


> Do you guys REALLY think that knocking the peach fuss off of a sewer in a few locations is REALLY going to make that much of a difference in the longevity :laughing:
> 
> In MOST cases it's all about bling at an added cost to the customer.... :yes:


Your redicoulus,, first you give the beat the dead horse emoticon,,, then,,,,,,, 
Knocking the peach fuss off? ,, this sounds like something someone who is backed into a corner who didn't own a jetter would say. 
Being able to see EXACTLY what kind of condition a joint is in is the difference between a guess and a definite for sure. IOW, is it broken? does it need a patch? Or just a root intrusion spot. 
And knowing for sure as opposed to guessing is of immeanse value when considering "longetivety" in regards to the customers sewer situation.


----------



## AssTyme

theplungerman said:


> Your redicoulus,, first you give the beat the dead horse emoticon,,, then,,,,,,,
> Knocking the peach fuss off? ,, this sounds like something someone who is backed into a corner who didn't own a jetter would say.
> Being able to see EXACTLY what kind of condition a joint is in is the difference between a guess and a definite for sure. IOW, is it broken? does it need a patch? Or just a root intrusion spot.
> And knowing for sure as opposed to guessing is of immeanse value when considering "longetivety" in regards to the customers sewer situation.



.......:whistling2:


----------



## theplungerman

You got it wrong grasshopper.


----------



## PPRI

I've kinda forgotten what you all were arguing about. AT doesn't think we need jetters and about 4 people keep telling him that cables don't cut it? Does that sum it up?

If so you are both wrong. I need my jetter. I couldn't do my job without it. I also need my cables. I can't do my job without them. I'm not saying either is bad. They both have their job and their jobs can overlap or be completely different.


----------



## theplungerman

What's kinda frustrating about this summation is though somewhat close it's very far from what the point. I'll say it again as its obviously needs repeating. The continuing of the earth rotation relies on it. 
Saying,,, cables don't cut it,,,,, is to vague. 
I'll say this,,,. You can be a great drain cleaner with only cables,,,, and with knowledge, proper blades, and time and effort you can clear almost every blockage. 
You can be awesome without a jetter, even better than one with a jetter. 
Being able to jet a bad spot to a point where it is known for sure what is going on as compared to a good blade cut where the condition is left open to guess work,,, when the spot in question is 12 ft deep etc. IOW,, Under the right circumstance that knowledge is priceless. 
I'll leave it with my new tag line,, with a jetter you are better.


----------



## ToUtahNow

Those who don't own jetters have no way of giving an honest evaluation either way. Stop arguing with him, he's not listen.

Mark


----------



## theplungerman

ToUtahNow said:


> Those who don't own jetters have no way of giving an honest evaluation either way. Stop arguing with him, he's not listen.
> 
> Mark


Your right. 
My goal isn't to 'win'. I'm trying to help. I care about others. I'm a giver.


----------



## AssTyme

ToUtahNow said:


> Those who don't own jetters have no way of giving an honest evaluation either way. Stop arguing with him, he's not listen.
> 
> Mark




I'm listening, just not buying


----------



## Will

I plan to add a jetter, I'd like to get a big one like a 18gpm 4000psi Mongoose. But for now I use my cable, only sewers I have issues with are the ones that need to be dug. That being said I do ALOT of jobs where I wish I had a Jetter instead because the jetter would have been much easier.


----------



## ToUtahNow

AssTyme said:


> I'm listening, just not buying


You do realize you are making a fool of yourself, right? You did the same thing when you first started doing drain cleaning 5-years ago. The fact that you don't own the equipment and lack the experience does not mean it is not useful to others. When was the last time you saw a municipality use a cable or even a rodder in a city main? Ever tool has a purpose and while a jetter is not my first pick for a troublesome branch, it sure is for a root infested line. As a pro, I feel the cleaning equipment you use is way to limited. If you can get away with it in your market, more power to you. I'm guessing there is a reason you felt that little root was the "Strongest Root In The Universe".

Mark


----------



## AssTyme

ToUtahNow said:


> You do realize you are making a fool of yourself, right? You did the same thing when you first started doing drain cleaning 5-years ago. The fact that you don't own the equipment and lack the experience does not mean it is not useful to others. When was the last time you saw a municipality use a cable or even a rodder in a city main? Ever tool has a purpose and while a jetter is not my first pick for a troublesome branch, it sure is for a root infested line. As a pro, I feel the cleaning equipment you use is way to limited. If you can get away with it in your market, more power to you. I'm guessing there is a reason you felt that little root was the "Strongest Root In The Universe".
> 
> Mark




Making a fool of myself 5 years ago by questioning someones repeated claims that a K-Silly is the wonder machine ??? I knew better than that with minimum experience.

Making a fool of myself by showing you jetter thugs it's possible to get almost the same results with a cable when you say a jetter is the only way ? Really... ? You guys are the ones making a fool of yourselves by NOT understanding what I'm saying, bringing a jetter into my every post.

Why do you guys have such selective reading on what I post and the true meaning of such ? Twisting what I say to suit your way of thinking.

When I said "strongest root in the universe" it was meaning strength of the root for how small it was. Not how much of a struggle it was to remove from the sewer. I'll say it again, MY MEDIUM DUTY 300 RIPPED THEM OUT !!! The weird looking root mass was attached by one feeder root.

I have never said that jetters are not needed nor have I ever said that I hate them. What I said was... JETTERS ARE NOT NEEDED ON MOST 4" and 6" RESIDENTIAL LINES. YOU CAN ACHIEVE THE SAME OR ALMOST THE SAME RESULTS WITH A CABLE. LIKE IT OR NOT THIS IS A FACT.

FYI my medium sized city still uses a cable rodder along with a jetter. But they are 8" and larger lines not the 4" & 6" lines I'm talking about.

Sometimes, the truth hurts :yes:


----------



## ToUtahNow

AssTyme said:


> Making a fool of myself 5 years ago by questioning someones repeated claims that a K-Silly is the wonder machine ??? I knew better than that with minimum experience.
> 
> Making a fool of myself by showing you jetter thugs it's possible to get almost the same results with a cable when you say a jetter is the only way ? Really... ? You guys are the ones making a fool of yourselves by NOT understanding what I'm saying, bringing a jetter into my every post.
> 
> Why do you guys have such selective reading on what I post and the true meaning of such ? Twisting what I say to suit your way of thinking.
> 
> When I said "strongest root in the universe" it was meaning strength of the root for how small it was. Not how much of a struggle it was to remove from the sewer. I'll say it again, MY MEDIUM DUTY 300 RIPPED THEM OUT !!! The weird looking root mass was attached by one feeder root.
> 
> I have never said that jetters are not needed nor have I ever said that I hate them. What I said was... JETTERS ARE NOT NEEDED ON MOST 4" and 6" RESIDENTIAL LINES. YOU CAN ACHIEVE THE SAME OR ALMOST THE SAME RESULTS WITH A CABLE. LIKE IT OR NOT THIS IS A FACT.
> 
> FYI my medium sized city still uses a cable rodder along with a jetter. But they are 8" and larger lines not the 4" & 6" lines I'm talking about.
> 
> Sometimes, the truth hurts :yes:


LOL, jetter thugs? You must be awfully insecure. I have not seen anyone act thugish to you. If anything, your the one questioning the effectiveness of a jetter. We all started out with cable machines and some of us have evolved to adding jetters to our equipment. You my friend are delusional. Get some more real word experience and maybe the 21st Century will welcome you in.

Mark


----------



## chonkie

What you got on my jetter homie? Lol.


----------



## chonkie

...


----------



## theplungerman

AT SAID,
Making a fool of myself by showing you jetter thugs it's possible to get almost the same results with a cable when you say a jetter is the only way ? Really... ? You guys are the ones making a fool of yourselves by NOT understanding what I'm saying, bringing a jetter into my every post.

Why do you guys have such selective reading on what I post and the true meaning of such ? Twisting what I say to suit your way of thinking.
ME SAY,
I didn’t say the jetter is the only way. And don’t remember anyone else stating that.
I know a good drain cleaner can do a great job on a root infested sewer line. And get basically the same results. Heck I got by for 25 years w/o a jetter so I would know. 
Maybe I heard you wrong and got defensive about jetters. I wonder if I went back and reread all your posts regarding jetters, would I get the impression you were knocking them? 
If I made a mistake and twisted your words I’m sorry.
Anyway in short, I think we are just saying, if you have a jetter it opens up some doors. Will make you more money (in an honest fashion and blessings from God). Will clear clogs faster so you can spend more time with the family, or ??????.
Here is a video of my jetter I made a few months ago to wet your appetite.
https://youtu.be/tX2OKB6ujmQ


----------



## Roto-Rooter

OK guys just got to add this----- I have cable and jetter both, use both, need both, but the other day had a line with a double L going over the bank behind the house. Root infested in the double L and for what reason I don't know, but the jetter would not do anything for me. Had to cable it to cut them out. I don't know if the turning motion of the cable that help or what. I was using the WT Worthog on a jetter with 3500 PSI 8 GPM. After cutting them out with the cable ran the jetter back in to hopefully help clean up things. Maybe I was doing something wrong I don't know, just know that job had to be done with both pieces of equipment. So to me both are necessary.


----------



## ToUtahNow

theplungerman said:


> at said,
> making a fool of myself by showing you jetter thugs it's possible to get almost the same results with a cable when you say a jetter is the only way ? Really... ? You guys are the ones making a fool of yourselves by not understanding what i'm saying, bringing a jetter into my every post.
> 
> Why do you guys have such selective reading on what i post and the true meaning of such ? Twisting what i say to suit your way of thinking.
> Me say,
> i didn’t say the jetter is the only way. And don’t remember anyone else stating that.
> I know a good drain cleaner can do a great job on a root infested sewer line. And get basically the same results. Heck i got by for 25 years w/o a jetter so i would know.
> Maybe i heard you wrong and got defensive about jetters. I wonder if i went back and reread all your posts regarding jetters, would i get the impression you were knocking them?
> If i made a mistake and twisted your words i’m sorry.
> Anyway in short, i think we are just saying, if you have a jetter it opens up some doors. Will make you more money (in an honest fashion and blessings from god). Will clear clogs faster so you can spend more time with the family, or ??????.
> Here is a video of my jetter i made a few months ago to wet your appetite.
> https://youtu.be/tx2okb6ujmq


thug!


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## theplungerman

Roto-Rooter said:


> OK guys just got to add this----- I have cable and jetter both, use both, need both, but the other day had a line with a double L going over the bank behind the house. Root infested in the double L and for what reason I don't know, but the jetter would not do anything for me. Had to cable it to cut them out. I don't know if the turning motion of the cable that help or what. I was using the WT Worthog on a jetter with 3500 PSI 8 GPM. After cutting them out with the cable ran the jetter back in to hopefully help clean up things. Maybe I was doing something wrong I don't know, just know that job had to be done with both pieces of equipment. So to me both are necessary.


Most of the time my 3/8 10gpm 4kpsi hose takes care of business. 
Sometimes though it won't do it fast enough to my liking. 5 or 10 seconds on the spot and it's thru most of the time. So if it dosnt after a minute or so I switch to the 1/2 inch hose, 18gpm 4k which gets er done all the time.


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## Roto-Rooter

theplungerman said:


> Most of the time my 3/8 10gpm 4kpsi hose takes care of business.
> Sometimes though it won't do it fast enough to my liking. 5 or 10 seconds on the spot and it's thru most of the time. So if it dosnt after a minute or so I switch to the 1/2 inch hose, 18gpm 4k which gets er done all the time.


I only had one chose so had to go to the cable, in fact I let the Worthog eat for 200 gal of water. It just wouldn't make that double L.


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## theplungerman

Roto-Rooter said:


> I only had one chose so had to go to the cable, in fact I let the Worthog eat for 200 gal of water. It just wouldn't make that double L.


I had one of my toughest blockages a few weeks ago. A sewer line from the back of the house add on bathroom. It tied to original sewer line out in front yard. Line was never used enough to experience a back up even though it was compromised. IOW. It had to get really bad before it finally plugged up long enough to be known. 
I estimated about 5 ft solid root mass. The 18gpm 4k psi warthog wasn't working fast enough. So I went to a roto type drill spray and drilled a hole thru. Then the warthog finished the mass off.


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## sierra2000

Hey Robert do you do any plumbing or all drains?


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## theplungerman

sierra2000 said:


> Hey Robert do you do any plumbing or all drains?


of course,,, Robert's Plumbing & Rooter Services


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## Epox

I use a cable in most intances but one good example comes to mind for justifying a jetter. A mobile court with 6" drains was stopped with sludge and paper towels. My k7500 went out 100' but wasn't showing me any results and I knew the city main was yet another 75 ft out. I hate adding cables and in this case would have been a drawn out pita. I grabbed the reel off trailer, connect a garden hose and sent the RR down. I had it opened and draining beautifully in minutes. The stoppage out 175 ft. which is under a busy street. I had accomplished in minutes what would have taken possibly hours with cable. Saved the customer money, and we were home in time for supper, lol.

Not only that but the area we were standing was covered with water and sewer sludge, paper towels, cleaning wipes etc. I was not happy with the danger of running my cable machine standing in water, even with WH cardboards.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Epox said:


> I use a cable in most intances but one good example comes to mind for justifying a jetter. A mobile court with 6" drains was stopped with sludge and paper towels. My k7500 went out 100' but wasn't showing me any results and I knew the city main was yet another 75 ft out. I hate adding cables and in this case would have been a drawn out pita. I grabbed the reel off trailer, connect a garden hose and sent the RR down. I had it opened and draining beautifully in minutes. The stoppage out 175 ft. which is under a busy street. I had accomplished in minutes what would have taken possibly hours with cable. Saved the customer money, and we were home in time for supper, lol.
> 
> Not only that but the area we were standing was covered with water and sewer sludge, paper towels, cleaning wipes etc. I was not happy with the danger of running my cable machine standing in water, even with WH cardboards.


This is a perfect example. A jetter is also much less likely to grab a broken pipe and make it worse or get stuck. As Plungerman stated, a jetter is better in most cases, including residential. I use mine on residential all the time. I rarely pull my 1065 off the truck.


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## Unclog1776

My 3/4" cable machine is collecting dust in the shop.


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## All Pro

I run a 7500 and love it. I also owned a 4 gpm 3500 psi jetter. I sold the jetter last year. Just never really needed it. Used it a few times on grease for fun. Honestly the whole set was a hassle. There are very few lines I can't clear with my cable. That said my jetter was small and couldn't do much for roots. I'm in southern CT. And roots are pretty heavy. There have been one or two times I had to call in a jetter. For a small business owner less then 5 years on his own a big jetter is huge chunk of $. My cables support my family and leave my customers happy. Maybe someday I'll get a nice jet but it's not a necessity at all. Not for residential main lines. Unless the lines in a deep pit


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## saysflushable

All Pro said:


> I run a 7500 and love it. I also owned a 4 gpm 3500 psi jetter. I sold the jetter last year. Just never really needed it. Used it a few times on grease for fun. Honestly the whole set was a hassle. There are very few lines I can't clear with my cable. That said my jetter was small and couldn't do much for roots. I'm in southern CT. And roots are pretty heavy. There have been one or two times I had to call in a jetter. For a small business owner less then 5 years on his own a big jetter is huge chunk of $. My cables support my family and leave my customers happy. Maybe someday I'll get a nice jet but it's not a necessity at all. Not for residential main lines. Unless the lines in a deep pit


 Well said. You are 100% correct.


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## AssTyme

All Pro said:


> I run a 7500 and love it. I also owned a 4 gpm 3500 psi jetter. I sold the jetter last year. Just never really needed it. Used it a few times on grease for fun. Honestly the whole set was a hassle. There are very few lines I can't clear with my cable. That said my jetter was small and couldn't do much for roots. I'm in southern CT. And roots are pretty heavy. There have been one or two times I had to call in a jetter. For a small business owner less then 5 years on his own a big jetter is huge chunk of $. My cables support my family and leave my customers happy. Maybe someday I'll get a nice jet but it's not a necessity at all. Not for residential main lines. Unless the lines in a deep pit




Blasphemy !!!

Cable on brother :laughing:


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## gear junkie

All Pro said:


> I run a 7500 and love it. I also owned a 4 gpm 3500 psi jetter. I sold the jetter last year. Just never really needed it. Used it a few times on grease for fun. Honestly the whole set was a hassle. There are very few lines I can't clear with my cable. That said my jetter was small and couldn't do much for roots. I'm in southern CT. And roots are pretty heavy. There have been one or two times I had to call in a jetter. For a small business owner less then 5 years on his own a big jetter is huge chunk of $. My cables support my family and leave my customers happy. Maybe someday I'll get a nice jet but it's not a necessity at all. Not for residential main lines. Unless the lines in a deep pit


My first jetter had those specs and had no issues cutting up roots.


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## All Pro

gear junkie said:


> My first jetter had those specs and had no issues cutting up roots.



Yeah I just used the couple tips it came with. Like I said the set up was a pain in the ass. Imo. And there's still a lot of orangeburg here.


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## Unclog1776

gear junkie said:


> My first jetter had those specs and had no issues cutting up roots.


Now those are roots. Those roots poop the "strongest roots in the universe"


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## ToUtahNow

gear junkie said:


> My first jetter had those specs and had no issues cutting up roots.


The big difference is you are a fixer. You asked a ton of questions and figured out what worked. Building your own jetters made you want to figure it out. When you buy an off the shelve jetter you are less likely to want to tear stuff apart to make it better. I think Rick is the exception. He took his brand new $40,000 US Jetter and out of frustration, tore into it and made in better. 

There are a lot of people out there that are more than happy to help plumbers find what works. I don't know if you have ever had Bill in Australia http://www.thejettersedge.com.au/ help you but those guys bleed jetters.

Mark


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## AssTyme

Unclog1776 said:


> Now those are roots. Those roots poop the "strongest roots in the universe"



FYI...

Just because they are branch like in size doesn't necessarily mean they are strong


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## plbgbiz

Roto-Rooter said:


> OK guys just got to add this----- I have cable and jetter both, use both, need both, but the other day had a line with a double L going over the bank behind the house. Root infested in the double L and for what reason I don't know, but the jetter would not do anything for me. Had to cable it to cut them out. I don't know if the turning motion of the cable that help or what. I was using the WT Worthog on a jetter with 3500 PSI 8 GPM. After cutting them out with the cable ran the jetter back in to hopefully help clean up things. Maybe I was doing something wrong I don't know, just know that job had to be done with both pieces of equipment. So to me both are necessary.


You did nothing wrong. Twin-el can be a no-go on almost any jetter. The end of your WH setup is stiffer than a 14yr old at a burlesque show.

Cables in the hands of a man that knows what he's doing are a critical part of the trade. But trying to compare their raw cleaning ability and efficiency to a jetter? Now that's just crazy talk.


Hmmmm...checked the mail today. Still no package. 😢


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## gear junkie

what's a twin-el?


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## plbgbiz

gear junkie said:


> what's a twin-el?



Twin el is like a sanitary cross, without the top inlet. Very easy to shoot straight across without hitting the turn.


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## Best Darn Sewer

gear junkie said:


> what's a twin-el?


And this is a twin ell for fresh water. They are used on old tub faucets that had only a connection for a spout.


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## AssTyme

plbgbiz said:


> Twin el is like a sanitary cross, without the top inlet. Very easy to shoot straight across without hitting the turn.
> View attachment 54266
> View attachment 54274




I've encountered these on back to back toilets, no ? Just last month had one in a church.


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## Letterrip

Hopefully not a twin L! That would be a huge no-no.


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## ToUtahNow

I thought he might have meant a Texas Twin.

Mark


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## ToUtahNow

AssTyme said:


> I've encountered these on back to back toilets, no ? Just last month had one in a church.


Probably not as there is no vent. Some use a double combi as a sanitary tee and it make it tough to snake.

Mark


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## ToUtahNow

plbgbiz said:


> Twin el is like a sanitary cross, without the top inlet. Very easy to shoot straight across without hitting the turn.
> View attachment 54266
> View attachment 54274


Double Quarter Bend.

Mark


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## AssTyme

ToUtahNow said:


> Probably not as there is no vent. Some use a double combi as a sanitary tee and it make it tough to snake.
> 
> Mark




Not sure but it looked very similar as I looked at it from overhead in the basement.


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