# What would you charge



## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Went over to fix a gas line and she asked if I thought she got screwed. Here are two pictures of the work completed and then the bill(I edited the name and address)

















View attachment 64777


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

seems about right.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I need to raise my prices.


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

How long did it take you?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

She was taken advantage of in my opinion. Even when I worked in Palm Beach, FL that would have been difficult to get.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

I was shocked (but not surprised) at the price. I don't care how much over head or how big of a business you got or where you work. That is called overcharging. $325x2 on the boiler drains gets me the most.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Btw this was in northern Va about15 miles outside DC


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

All of their Google reviews looked good.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

It looks like they didn't know how to use their flat rate book correctly. Each task by itself, the price looks about right, but these should have been done as additional tasks, add-ons, which would have brought the price down a little.
The laundry valves price is way off.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Obviously if said customer is questioning the bill after the fact - the customer didn't ask how much the job would cost BEFORE the work began, AND the plumber didn't give an upfront estimate. Failure on both fronts.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Yep, each task should have been at a lesser value. Anything other than the original task gets a cut rate. If a customer with us doesn't elect for a 3 year service agreement and just wants standard price it's still discounted on every add on.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Michaelcookplum said:


> I was shocked (but not surprised) at the price. I don't care how much over head or how big of a business you got or where you work. That is called overcharging. $325x2 on the boiler drains gets me the most.


Regardless of what you think, I hope you didn't share that information with the homeowner. There was a time that I wouldn't think twice about referring to another plumbing company's pricing as a rip-off. My opinion has changed over the years regarding throwing stones at glass houses.

Without all the information, it's hard to judge. How would you like "Chuck in a Truck" (working off Craig's List) criticizing your bill? IMO, leave the legit businesses alone, and come down harder on the handymen who screw up the plumbing and charge the H.O. for it.

Rather than focus exclusively on the pricing, I would say something like "It seems high to me, but I won't go as far to say that you were ripped off. I do know that our customers find us to be a great value and I think our pricing is better (with a wink and a smile)."

The company that I used to refer to as a rip-off (I still believe they are) owns equipment and has an advertising budget that I would love to have. Fact is, we cannot afford the equipment. If one of their customers call for emergency service, they have several guys on standy-by. They are willing to do some things that we are not willing to do - like travelling two hours to do a job or going out for free estimates. They can usually respond faster due to having more employees, etc.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Why talk on the price? what was the quality of work? Did the company do what they would say they're gonna do, for the agreed upon price?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I don't see the price for the permit and inspection, always have to add that in


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

gear junkie said:


> Did the company do what they would say they're gonna do, for the agreed upon price?


Flat-rates dirty little secret right there. ^^^^^^^

After the H.O. has time to think about it, or they call all of their friends to get their friends opinions is when the trouble begins. We encourage our guys to offer options, BUT not to oversell or push. If the field guys are too aggressive, you will have those complaints. 

IMO, it's always a fine line between "encouraging" and "pushing."


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

Looks like they cut her a break.....they didn't charge for marking which direction to turn for more pressure..... the descriptions they listed seem like they just broke up the job into separate line items.


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> I don't see the price for the permit and inspection, always have to add that in


It depends on the area here most plumbing is not inspected, nor are permits required. Without a license or a permit I could legally replace a water service line and do a full repipe of a house. Even gas repairs are not governed. The only thing that requires a plumbing license, permit, and inspestion (for residential service work anyways) is a water heater replacement. It's a total joke here. However they do take sewers semi seriously. Any repair on sewer requires permit and inspection and if a repair is done within 35' of the city main the tap connection must be exposed for visible inspection as well.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Prices look like they are in the same ballpark as ours...


However, as others stated there would have been discounts on added jobs.
We charge full rate on the highest cost job then discount all the others...


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> I don't see the price for the permit and inspection, always have to add that in


To add, at least in my area, this is not to code.


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

Wow. That's a good chunk of change. I couldn't get away with charging that around here.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I dont think old Abes Plumbing is going to like seeing his crappy..cheesey looking cheap assed invoice plastered here on this site.....including his telephone number too

I totally agree that the price is pretty high for a couple of boiler drains and a prv valve... maybe a laundry faucet?

I dont think its wise to have the name of that plumbing company on here cause you might just run into them some day at the supply house and have to defend yourself ..... I would never charge that much but I KNOW that I would have an axe to grind with you if I was him......

just saying


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> I dont think old Abes Plumbing is going to like seeing his crappy..cheesey looking cheap assed invoice plastered here on this site.....including his telephone number too
> 
> I totally agree that the price is pretty high for a couple of boiler drains and a prv valve... maybe a laundry faucet?
> 
> ...



If you did an honest job why would you have a problem with a customer sharing your invoice? I see your point though, and I honestly thought that I edited his info out of the picture like the HO. I didn't realize until after earlier comments that I didn't. It wasn't my intention to show the company info, I only wanted to share the cost of the work.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Michaelcookplum said:


> If you did an honest job why would you have a problem with a customer sharing your invoice? I see your point though, and I honestly thought that I edited his info out of the picture like the HO. I didn't realize until after earlier comments that I didn't. It wasn't my intention to show the company info, I only wanted to share the cost of the work.


 If you think it might come back to bite you, maybe ask one of the moderators to delete it. I think it can be done. Never mind. Looks like someone already did it.
There was nothing proprietary about his invoice but you never know.


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Slightly off the original topic but the invoice did not list any sales tax, or did I just miss it? Is the tax just hidden in the rate? Or is sales tax not collected or paid out since the materials themselves were not itemized on the invoice and are sold as a service?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

cable or root said:


> Slightly off the original topic but the invoice did not list any sales tax, or did I just miss it? Is the tax just hidden in the rate? Or is sales tax not collected or paid out since the materials themselves were not itemized on the invoice and are sold as a service?


Taxes vary by state law..


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

I was told by my accountant when it's a price job that I should figure 30% of it to be taxable material. And 70% labor.


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## Poopoogobyebye (Nov 3, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> I don't see the price for the permit and inspection, always have to add that in


I usually talk my customers out of a permit, it adds no value to the job.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Poopoogobyebye said:


> I usually talk my customers out of a permit, it adds no value to the job.


Permits usually require someone to have a license and plumbing skills, so I understand why you see no value in them.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Poopoogobyebye said:


> I usually talk my customers out of a permit, it adds no value to the job.


Haven't they determined that permits cause cancer in CA.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

chonkie said:


> Haven't they determined that permits cause cancer in CA.



Great quote


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## Poopoogobyebye (Nov 3, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> Permits usually require someone to have a license and plumbing skills, so I understand why you see no value in them.


Whats with the insults? Typical Ma$$hole.



chonkie said:


> Haven't they determined that permits cause cancer in CA.


Indeed, they cause cancer of the wallet.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

No insults, just stating the obvious, why would you need a permit and inspection for drain cleaning. Any person with a license would know that. I just called you unlicensed not a a hole like you insulted me.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Inspections are always awkward when you don't have a license....


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Sounds like we have another 1 step glue guy around here.


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## Poopoogobyebye (Nov 3, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> No insults, just stating the obvious, why would you need a permit and inspection for drain cleaning. Any person with a license would know that. I just called you unlicensed not a a hole like you insulted me.


Your ASSumption is incorrect. I am licensed and do a lot of jobs that require permits, but I usually save my customer the money instead of having them pay a useless fee to the city bureaucrats.

And telling me I have no plumbing skills was meant to be an insult and you know that.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Well Mr Pooper, I'm glad you have your ticket first off. You should update your bio because it just says drains.

As far as permits, I hope you never flood or damage out a house and have no permit. I hope you have a real slick insurance adjuster. No permit, no inspection usually means no insurance claim.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

paultheplumber1 said:


> I was told by my accountant when it's a price job that I should figure 30% of it to be taxable material. And 70% labor.


I don't believe that would fly with the IRS in an audit, regardless of what your accountant says.

Accounting usually requires 'accounting' for what is used. :vs_lol: Not an arbitrary guess. Typically one would have receipts for the costs of goods sold.


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

Phat Cat said:


> I don't believe that would fly with the IRS in an audit, regardless of what your accountant says.
> 
> Accounting usually requires 'accounting' for what is used. :vs_lol: Not an arbitrary guess. Typically one would have receipts for the costs of goods sold.


 we were actually audited this summer. The two men doing the audit actually agreed with this practice and it actually is recommended as a rule of thumb. They told us that there is no law that makes us show a material breakdown for every invoice we bill out. You simply need to provide a taxable number for goods sold. They have the information from our accounting software and the invoices from our supply houses. As long as everything matches what they think it should be then your all set. They only pinched me on 40,000 worth of equiptment I purchased in mass which has a lower sales tax than RI.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

paultheplumber1 said:


> we were actually audited this summer. The two men doing the audit actually agreed with this practice and it actually is recommended as a rule of thumb. They told us that there is no law that makes us show a material breakdown for every invoice we bill out. You simply need to provide a taxable number for goods sold. They have the information from our accounting software and the invoices from our supply houses. As long as everything matches what they think it should be then your all set. They only pinched me on 40,000 worth of equiptment I purchased in mass which has a lower sales tax than RI.


That makes sense. I misunderstood what you said earlier. I thought the 70 / 30 is what you also reported at the end of the year.

FWIW, our breakdown of materials comes out to 30% on average.


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