# Propress



## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

It seems to me that propress is a method accepted by this forum for new installs. I just can't see the esteem building, good edicate proud of my work plumbing qaulities of propress. It's simply a hackbite that takes a $5000 tool to permantly install. 
I did an entire job a while back with propress not by my choice but it was speced that way. That was some of the worst plumbing I have ever did. Every joint kicked to one side or the other and if you bothered to straighten it the next crimp was sure to throw it off. 
Sure it's quick but it takes all the art and craftmanship out of our trade just like pex, pvc, cpvc etc.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

It's a glorified sharkbite. The time savings on a commercial job is worth it if a contractor must furnish a competetive bid, which most if not all must do. How could a contractor compete if his men have to solder miles of 4" and 6" copper pipe? The contractor's crew with the propress will always bid less on labor.

I can imagine it is a benefit mostly to commercial contractors.

The upshot is this, no handyman will ever purchase the hydraulic crimp tool. But from what I hear, the fittings are not cheap.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> It's a glorified sharkbite. The time savings on a commercial job is worth it if a contractor must furnish a competetive bid, which most if not all must do. How could a contractor compete if his men have to solder miles of 4" and 6" copper pipe? The contractor's crew with the propress will always bid less on labor.
> 
> I can imagine it is a benefit mostly to commercial contractors.
> 
> The upshot is this, no handyman will ever purchase the hydraulic crimp tool. But from what I hear, the fittings are not cheap.


Save money on labor but what's the price difference on fittings??


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Save money on labor but *what's the price difference on fittings??*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I use my ProPress for services where I can not get the water to turn off 100%. It has its place in the industry. And the cost of the fittings are only a few cents more than a standard quality fitting.

As for looks, I have seen whole buildings plumbed in with ProPress, and not a single joint was off or piped kicked in any direction.

Also I seen some pi** poor solder installs in my time. Point is with experience you can ensure a good clean install with ProPress and or with solder.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I've used it before and on wet joints it's perfect but I can't get it to run straight I can tweak it after I press it and try to guess what way it's gonna move!! If it can be ran clean a plumb I want to know ther tricks


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## Radium (Dec 25, 2010)

1" sweat ball valve at 15.75, vs. 1" propress ball valve 50.00. 1 1/2" cplg 90 or cap propress 11.25 or sweat for 7 dollars. But a smart person would factor in rolls of solder are not cheap as well.

Sent from my iPad using PlumbingZone


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Clean flux heat patience and time. Then feather the flame to equally heat fitting. Then insert the solder directly into the joint and cap and bingo you have connected or joined pipe. You can also unsweat and repair while propress well... Not! Propress is faster more expensive and closely fitted unrepairable! Nay :no:


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I will agree that its great when the water doesnt stop like a sharkbite but hey whats the hurry !:thumbup:


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Its also never strait when crimping and twisting it usually tweaks towards the tips of the jaws helps when apprentice holds piping!


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Like Ron, I like mine for service work where I can't shut off the water 100%. I've cut ball valves into live copper lines with my ProPress and was able to finish the work without spending hours tracing lines on a 300 acre winery just to find out there's no shut off for that building anyways. I don't use it more than once every few weeks but it's great to have.







Paul


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> I use my ProPress for services where I can not get the water to turn off 100%. It has its place in the industry. And the cost of the fittings are only a few cents more than a standard quality fitting.
> 
> As for looks, I have seen whole buildings plumbed in with ProPress, and not a single joint was off or piped kicked in any direction.
> 
> Also I seen some pi** poor solder installs in my time. Point is with experience you can ensure a good clean install with ProPress and or with solder.


I have yet to see a chase run with propress that was even anywhere close to straight, plumb, sqaure and level. I would have to work at it to solder copper as crooked as propress leaves it.

As far as cost the last time I checked price it was twice the
cost for a 3" propress valve vs a 3" sweat! I used a handgroover and a Victaulic valve and left a great product that I could be proud of while saving money and if that valve fails give me a valve, 2 glands and 10 minutes with the water off and I will have a happy customer!

In service I will only propress when there simply isn't another option when I don't have the room for a jet-sweat, freeze pak, shop-vac, victaulic, or other options. So far haven't had to propress other than 1 residential service where the meter wouldn't shut off and no room forany of the other options.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

True never plumb or strait!


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

deerslayer said:


> I have yet to see a chase run with propress that was even anywhere close to straight, plumb, sqaure and level. I would have to work at it to solder copper as crooked as propress leaves it.
> 
> As far as cost the last time I checked price it was twice the
> cost for a 3" propress valve vs a 3" sweat! I used a handgroover and a Victaulic valve and left a great product that I could be proud of while saving money and if that valve fails give me a valve, 2 glands and 10 minutes with the water off and I will have a happy customer!
> ...


? 

I don't have trouble getting it straight. I don't have many more pictures of this job that you can make out the pipe, 12 lengths of 2" and more on 1". All clevis hung, straight and level. I like it for the big stuff, big fittings are expensive, and sometimes for a quicky repair when the copper is not very cooperative.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

i brace first before i press and they come out as straight as can be


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

True it can me made strait by tweaking the offset and buy somebody else holding the pipes !


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Bracing too is also important as mentioned above forgot about that soldering is clean flux heat solder !


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I use a loaf of bread before I use propress. Lol


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## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

I've never had a problem getting pro-press to run straight. Anything over 1 inch will be on uni strut and clipped so I set it up how I want it and go with it. Mabye your jaws are our of alignment? The next time I do a reticulated system in pro-press ill post pics. I agree it's over priced but when it's spec'd we put it in 
I would rather braze any day of the week but sometimes it makes what would be a stressful connection a walk in the park. It definitely has its place.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I usually break bread then solder lol!


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I did have a calibration issue and sent mine for recalibration! Havent thought much about it for a month. Its back 30000 presses max didnt get that many out of her! Just soldered on! Did I miss it not at all! I dont know, its great at a huge cost for fittings and again what happens when you space them closely and need to repair later ? You just start all over again and you cant give them a flux and resolder! Plus at 3 in the morning do you have a 3 inch slip coupling and a 90 probabaly not. But you will have flux heat and solder !


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I like to work with copper and sweat the fittings onto the pipe. I likey the fire. :thumbup:

I will figure out how to get the water out of the pipe. One little trick I have learned when dealing with water in a line is to, install a tee at the lowest part of your piping. Point the tee facing down, and solder a male adaptor onto it. This opening will give water and steam somewhere to go. When finished soldering the tee opening can get a gauge for air testing, a threaded cap, or a felmale boiler drain.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> I like to work with copper and sweat the fittings onto the pipe. I likey the fire. :thumbup:


Me too feels like your living the dream then! :thumbsup:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

deerslayer said:


> It seems to me that propress is a method accepted by this forum for new installs. I just can't see the esteem building, good edicate proud of my work plumbing qaulities of propress. It's simply a hackbite that takes a $5000 tool to permantly install.
> I did an entire job a while back with propress not by my choice but it was speced that way. That was some of the worst plumbing I have ever did. Every joint kicked to one side or the other and if you bothered to straighten it the next crimp was sure to throw it off.
> Sure it's quick but it takes all the art and craftmanship out of our trade just like pex, pvc, cpvc etc.


 

Idea! 

If ya dont like it ....dont use it . Tell yer boss how you feel about it. :laughing:

I use PP and have no problem keeping it plumb.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I use it in two main applications; industrial, where a burn permit and and act of congress are required to turn water off. Also overhead leaks where time is important to my customer. We usually have whatever we need fabed up and are waiting for a break to turn the water off and change out the leaking fitting. 

Anywhere time down is a major concern you should be selling your propress as a tool that you bought with them in mind. I let them know it's expensive for parts, but they are ok. 

They seem to keep straight for me, point A B and C are already fixed in place when I get there. They do give you a spot to take pressure off pipe if needed though.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

If you all are paying twice the cost for fittings or valves, shop somewhere else then. Unless the valves you are buying are the junk no name valves the prices are very close to each other. The biggest price spread I have seen was 2 bucks for a 1" ball valve.

As I have said before the cost is not all that much more for the fittings and valves. You also have to consider the fittings are type K copper.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I hear this "leaking water" line all the time. A Jet Swett kit complete costs around 300 bucks and will solve the leaking water problem. We have two Pro-Press machines in the tool crib and 13 plumbers. There is a quarter of an inch of dust on the pro press boxes. Nobody uses them. The fittings are outrageously priced and you have to pre-order them and stock them because none of the supply houses around here carry many of them.. It is a glorified sharkbite and an abomination to an industry already plagued by the get er done quick and easy mentality. In an earlier post someone said "what's the hurry" and I agree. It's a gimmick at best. Oh BTW, you can now Pro-Press steel pipe.....as in for gas piping


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

SewerRatz said:


> If you all are paying twice the cost for fittings or valves, shop somewhere else then. Unless the valves you are buying are the junk no name valves the prices are very close to each other. The biggest price spread I have seen was 2 bucks for a 1" ball valve.
> 
> As I have said before the cost is not all that much more for the fittings and valves. You also have to consider the fittings are type K copper.



The prices for 3-4 inch is high just like copper fitting. This is especially true after our markup.:laughing: We use the xl brass fittings not the xl-c.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> The prices for 3-4 inch is high just like copper fitting. This is especially true after our markup.:laughing: We use the xl brass fittings not the xl-c.


Heading to the supply house today, I check prices on 3" fittings.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

A 3" copper swett elbow is about 25 bucks, a 3" pro press elbow is about 125 bucks A few cents difference :laughing:


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I use a loaf of bread before I use propress. Lol


I refuse to put anything made with mold and yeast in a potable water line!


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> I like to work with copper and sweat the fittings onto the pipe. I likey the fire. :thumbup:
> 
> I will figure out how to get the water out of the pipe. One little trick I have learned when dealing with water in a line is to, install a tee at the lowest part of your piping. Point the tee facing down, and solder a male adaptor onto it. This opening will give water and steam somewhere to go. When finished soldering the tee opening can get a gauge for air testing, a threaded cap, or a felmale boiler drain.


Uhmmm...if you have too much water to weld at the high point, how is it you can cut at a lower point and weld in a tee? :blink:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> A 3" copper swett elbow is about 25 bucks, a 3" pro press elbow is about 125 bucks A few cents difference :laughing:



You guys are paying crazy prices for the PP not bad for the copper. I think we payed 60ish for the fitting w/ tax. But our markup on special order is 100%.

You guys wanna sell one of those useless POS?


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

I love my propress. It's brilliantly useful for service work :thumbup:

Jetswet's are useful also, but won't hold back pressure and require extra valves to create an isolation for welding work...with pp you can get it done clean and quick and the service back up fast.

The trick is remembering to charge as if you took the time to do a weld repair...that's how you pay for the tool, heh 

The trick to keeping the joints and runs straight is to remember to put a hand on the pipe just before pulling the trigger. Hold the pipe straight with one hand while crimping with the other...PP will lock it into the position it's in when the crimp is made 

I do admit I prefer welded manifolds when feasible, though...just looks more professional and gives one a sense of satisfaction when standing back and looking at it. 

But for service work and big fittings...pp wins hands down for dependability, speed, and cleanliness :yes:

Sharkbites are the scourge of the plumbing trade. They are unreliable, and any handyman (or even handymen wannabe's) can slap them on. 

PP requires expensive tools, supply-house fittings, and proper prep and technique to use effectively...this makes it plumber friendly IMO.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I love my propress. It's brilliantly useful for service work :thumbup:
> 
> Jetswet's are useful also, but won't hold back pressure and require extra valves to create an isolation for welding work...with pp you can get it done clean and quick and the service back up fast.
> 
> ...


 
Propress is a sharkbite that can't be removed. It is an o ring seal and seals in the same method. The only difference is an overpriced installation tool.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Uhmmm...if you have too much water to weld at the high point, how is it you can cut at a lower point and weld in a tee? :blink:


 







You keep stating 'weld'. Do you actually weld copper? I think you mean sweat or solder. I have brazed and soldered copper. But I never welded copper. Welding is altogether a different animal.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

How is a Propress that much hack-ier than using Victaulic couplings? They both use expensive equipment to do quick and easy connections? 





Paul


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I love my propress. It's brilliantly useful for service work :thumbup:
> 
> Jetswet's are useful also, but won't hold back pressure and require extra valves to create an isolation for welding work...with pp you can get it done clean and quick and the service back up fast.
> 
> ...


Menard's have pp fittings and havnt seen the tool for them yet.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> You keep stating 'weld'. Do you actually weld copper? I think you mean sweat or solder. I have brazed and soldered copper. But I never welded copper. Welding is altogether a different animal.


Soft-weld = sweat = solder in my vocabulary...my apologies...I can see how it could be confusing 

You must admit, though...I do try to use grammer and complete words (for the most part). No "text talk" from this old plumber :thumbsup:


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Menard's have pp fittings and havnt seen the tool for them yet.


There are many options for tools if you are considering giving propress a try, and if you are in service work I would highly recommend it :thumbsup:

I have a Ridgid CT400 (corded) which is my workhorse, but also a Nibco battery powered with a swivel head that comes in handy on occasion.

If I were to start from scratch, however, I'd likely try the Rothenberger that is really compact and has a battery _and_ a cord.

I also have the new side crimp jaw kit that makes it possible to crimp at near 90 degree to the fitting...brilliantly helpful when making repairs below grade and in tight quarters :thumbup:


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> Propress is a sharkbite that can't be removed. It is an o ring seal and seals in the same method. The only difference is an overpriced installation tool.


To each his own, of course, but the sharkbite seal is much more fragile than propress. Sharkbite seals against the end of the pipe and is restrained by a flimsy S.S. grip ring, while propress is a full cirlce seal around the pipe that is "swedged" on either side of the o-ring.

I've used propress for nearly ten years now and had two leaks due to fitting failure during that time. It's a nearly bullet-proof system and is totally in the hands of professionals by design.

I don't think there is any real risk of Home Depot or Lowes selling propress at any point in the foreseeable future.

Turning up one's nose at propress is similar to refusing to use victolic IMO. I don't understand it, but that's fine...to each his own


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

In Canada there are two manufactuers of pp nibco and viega so you need both machines and jaws.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)




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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Look at that cheesy smile!!


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

I use the Pro Pres all the time and have been for over 10 years now it is great for hospitals,schools and other places where shutting off smoke detectors can be an issue. And if you are in a high rise building and it could take hours to get the water to slow down enough to soilder it is the way to go. I can do a job that would take 3 or more hours soildering in 30 minutes with the Pro Press. I don`t stock any sweat fittings on my truck but I carry alot of PP fittings and ball valves.[ Give them a price up front and it is win win for you. Here is a pic of a recent job done with 3" and 2" Pro Press fittings.ATTACH]16500[/ATTACH]


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

pilot light said:


> In Canada there are two manufactuers of pp nibco and viega so you need both machines and jaws.


In the U.S. nibco, Viega, Elkhart, and the rest are interchangable :thumbsup:

There remain two styles for 2-1/2" and above, however...the old style brass uses one type jaw, and the new style copper use another. I can't remember the designation at the moment, however


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

I use propress mainly for under ground and under slab leak repairs.

Worth it's wieght in Gold.

We had freeze here in 2011 in Dallas where it got down to 7 degrees, Had busted 3/4" water lines split due to freezing up in attics. I could locate the leak, cut out the split copper and make the repair in about 15 minutes and charge $500 per repair. 

I had all the work I wanted for 4 days straight back February 2011, it was a good day to be a plumber and the propress was the key to my quickness


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Would the Pro Press head fit inside a standard wall opening for a tub/ shower valve? I have not used Pro Press but looking to add it soon. Gave a price to change out four tub valves and was curious if this would work?
Do the couplings all have stops or are they available without stops?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

HSI said:


> Would the Pro Press head fit inside a standard wall opening for a tub/ shower valve? I have not used Pro Press but looking to add it soon. Gave a price to change out four tub valves and was curious if this would work?
> Do the couplings all have stops or are they available without stops?


 Ridgid solder iron!


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

pilot light said:


> Ridgid solder iron!


I don’t have one of those either. Which one do you have the 100 or the 175?
Soldering is not the issue, looking to speed the job up.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

HSI said:


> I don’t have one of those either. Which one do you have the 100 or the 175?
> Soldering is not the issue, looking to speed the job up.


Garden hose and hose clamps go in fast...


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

easttexasplumb said:


> I like to work with copper and sweat the fittings onto the pipe. I likey the fire. :thumbup:
> 
> I will figure out how to get the water out of the pipe. One little trick I have learned when dealing with water in a line is to, install a tee at the lowest part of your piping. Point the tee facing down, and solder a male adaptor onto it. This opening will give water and steam somewhere to go. When finished soldering the tee opening can get a gauge for air testing, a threaded cap, or a felmale boiler drain.


I slip a length of 3/8 copper tubing in the pipe and tape the other end to my shop vac. suck the water out while soldering.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> I slip a length of 3/8 copper tubing in the pipe and tape the other end to my shop vac. suck the water out while soldering.


Dude, that's' so "you", really, that's an awesome idea.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

gear junkie said:


> I slip a length of 3/8 copper tubing in the pipe and tape the other end to my shop vac. suck the water out while soldering.


Brilliant idea :thumbup:. I've got to try that soon


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

gear junkie said:


> I slip a length of 3/8 copper tubing in the pipe and tape the other end to my shop vac. suck the water out while soldering.



It works well on a hose bibb closest to where you are working in a house. Heats up quickly too.:laughing:


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

gear junkie said:


> I slip a length of 3/8 copper tubing in the pipe and tape the other end to my shop vac. suck the water out while soldering.


Yep do this often!


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I've done the same thing with a SS supply line attached to an anglestop when doing under slab repairs. Open the stop and fire up the shop vac, works great.








Paul


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

Tim`s Plumbing said:


> I use the Pro Pres all the time and have been for over 10 years now it is great for hospitals,schools and other places where shutting off smoke detectors can be an issue. And if you are in a high rise building and it could take hours to get the water to slow down enough to soilder it is the way to go. I can do a job that would take 3 or more hours soildering in 30 minutes with the Pro Press. I don`t stock any sweat fittings on my truck but I carry alot of PP fittings and ball valves.[ Give them a price up front and it is win win for you. Here is a pic of a recent job done with 3" and 2" Pro Press fittings.ATTACH]16500[/ATTACH]


And that's why I don't like Pro Press. I see mech. rooms all the time at work that look like this, and though I can't argue with the labor savings, those saggy droopy messes make me cringe.


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## SHAUN C (Feb 16, 2011)

It's hard to appreciate propress until it saves your butt one night inside of an old commercial building with a pinhole leak in an 1 1/2 main with an antique curbstop that won't shut down enough to sweat!!!


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Ive used it for 7 or 8 years, school 3" water mains, takes longer to dig the trench then to run 300' of 3" copper with 12 connections. school was happy, they got back up and running faster. Also hospital work on shut downs where they need them short, bid the same price as the guy that quoted 8 hours and be done in 1. hospital is happy. I don;t use the press on a regular basis, just when it is a time crunch, or the customer can benefit from it. I have done 4" with water pouring out in parking garages where the only other option is to use a 4" jet sweat and ball valves. do they even make a 4" jet sweat???


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> Yep do this often!


 Yes done it too!:thumbup:


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

We're undergoing a big reno at the factory I'm working at. An old 1 1/2" gate valve isn't holding and needs to be pulled out and replaced. I ordered a new ball valve (sweat) and another one of the foremen (been there longer that me) said we should leave it in and just use a pro press one after it. I said that was a bit bush league. Who wants to see a bunch of valves all together on the same pipe. So, seniority prevailed on that one, and we have a brand new 1 1/2" Pro Press ball valve six inches away from a 1970's gate valve. It's imbarassing to look at, and cheezy as hell. But boy, what a time saver.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

plumber666 said:


> We're undergoing a big reno at the factory I'm working at. An old 1 1/2" gate valve isn't holding and needs to be pulled out and replaced. I ordered a new ball valve (sweat) and another one of the foremen (been there longer that me) said we should leave it in and just use a pro press one after it. I said that was a bit bush league. Who wants to see a bunch of valves all together on the same pipe. So, seniority prevailed on that one, and we have a brand new 1 1/2" Pro Press ball valve six inches away from a 1970's gate valve. It's imbarassing to look at, and cheezy as hell. But boy, what a time saver.


Guess you can laugh at him when the gate rots off and it needs to be changed after all.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

plumber666 said:


> We're undergoing a big reno at the factory I'm working at. An old 1 1/2" gate valve isn't holding and needs to be pulled out and replaced. I ordered a new ball valve (sweat) and another one of the foremen (been there longer that me) said we should leave it in and just use a pro press one after it. I said that was a bit bush league. Who wants to see a bunch of valves all together on the same pipe. So, seniority prevailed on that one, and we have a brand new 1 1/2" Pro Press ball valve six inches away from a 1970's gate valve. It's imbarassing to look at, and cheezy as hell. But boy, what a time saver.


 
How much time was saved vs. a quick shut down and pressing in the new valve? If there's a lot of water to drain, it's still a lot faster than sweating. How about shutting the old gate valve down as far as it will go and freezing the line a foot back, then cut the old valve out and press in the new? 






Paul


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> Idea!
> 
> If ya dont like it ....dont use it . Tell yer boss how you feel about it. :laughing:
> 
> I use PP and have no problem keeping it plumb.


I have done large jobs in propress and we didn't have issues with keeping it straight . You just turn the pipe so it is bending upwards.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I say close the gate valve as much as possible. Freeze the line both sides of the gate, cut the copper, make sure the line is frozen, having a rubber hose and clamp in hand, then remove the gate and handle to further make sure the line is frozen, cut it out and press in the new valve. that old gate valve has to be removed, but use it to your advantage to freeze the line.

propressing and freezing go hand and hand.

I agree with Paul!


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> How much time was saved vs. a quick shut down and pressing in the new valve? If there's a lot of water to drain, it's still a lot faster than sweating. How about shutting the old gate valve down as far as it will go and freezing the line a foot back, then cut the old valve out and press in the new?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That or just shutting the meter off and replacing it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

playme1979 said:


> I have done large jobs in propress and we didn't have issues with keeping it straight . You just turn the pipe so it is bending upwards.


And strut clamping mains larger than 2" BEFORE you press helps a lot. The fittings that need the rings have lots of slop in them, best to have the pipe locked down before pressing. It comes out pretty straight then.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I've been at this for close to 40 years now and have NEVER EVER absolutely needed a Pro-Press for ANYTHING! Sure it's fast and sure it's easy and sure it's damn expensive too. I hear the same crap on every plumbing forum that brings this topic up. A bunch of guys that have spent their careers looking for and advocating all these fast and easy tools and materials that have DESTROYED the profession and turned it into a trade instead. You can now Pro-Press steel gas pipe so I guess there's no point in teaching threading or even owning threading tools. So now we don't need a torch, threading tools and on the horizon is pressed or push fit DWV. So basically a plumber really doesn't need a license nor can you justify your labor rate either but worse than that you will no longer be a skilled tradesman, because a Chimpanzee can do your job. But you don't care and you will post your rebuttal and argument because as long as YOU are making a few bucks the rest of the PROFESSION can screw.

You Masters out there that are training apprentices. What are you teaching them? How to put batteries on a charger and push a button? How to string PEX across the floor joists and pound in plastic staples to hold it up. How about how to slap an AAV on a trap rather than drill a straight line of holes for a proper vent pipe? Maybe you taught him how to open the package that the flex supplies came in and screw them on with a pair of water pump pliers. The next generation of plumbers will not know anything about plumbing or craftsmanship and you have yourselves to blame but hey.......as long as YOU are making a buck


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I've been at this for close to 40 years now and have NEVER EVER absolutely needed a Pro-Press for ANYTHING! Sure it's fast and sure it's easy and sure it's damn expensive too. I hear the same crap on every plumbing forum that brings this topic up. A bunch of guys that have spent their careers looking for and advocating all these fast and easy tools and materials that have DESTROYED the profession and turned it into a trade instead. You can now Pro-Press steel gas pipe so I guess there's no point in teaching threading or even owning threading tools. So now we don't need a torch, threading tools and on the horizon is pressed or push fit DWV. So basically a plumber really doesn't need a license nor can you justify your labor rate either but worse than that you will no longer be a skilled tradesman, because a Chimpanzee can do your job. But you don't care and you will post your rebuttal and argument because as long as YOU are making a few bucks the rest of the PROFESSION can screw.
> 
> You Masters out there that are training apprentices. What are you teaching them? How to put batteries on a charger and push a button? How to string PEX across the floor joists and pound in plastic staples to hold it up. How about how to slap an AAV on a trap rather than drill a straight line of holes for a proper vent pipe? Maybe you taught him how to open the package that the flex supplies came in and screw them on with a pair of water pump pliers. The next generation of plumbers will not know anything about plumbing or craftsmanship and you have yourselves to blame but hey.......as long as YOU are making a buck


 100% agree


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

No, you don't have anything to prove at all. :thumbsup:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> No, you don't have anything to prove at all. :thumbsup:


 
sad isnt it, what is the world coming to, guess we all should agree with each other and never argue about it


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Surely there is a way to discuss the virtues (or lack thereof) of technological advancement and its affect on our trade/profession without pissing on fellow members.

Even in disagreement, keep it respectful gentlemen.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I've been at this for close to 40 years now and have NEVER EVER absolutely needed a Pro-Press for ANYTHING! Sure it's fast and sure it's easy and sure it's damn expensive too. I hear the same crap on every plumbing forum that brings this topic up. A bunch of guys that have spent their careers looking for and advocating all these fast and easy tools and materials that have DESTROYED the profession and turned it into a trade instead. You can now Pro-Press steel gas pipe so I guess there's no point in teaching threading or even owning threading tools. So now we don't need a torch, threading tools and on the horizon is pressed or push fit DWV. So basically a plumber really doesn't need a license nor can you justify your labor rate either but worse than that you will no longer be a skilled tradesman, because a Chimpanzee can do your job. But you don't care and you will post your rebuttal and argument because as long as YOU are making a few bucks the rest of the PROFESSION can screw.
> 
> You Masters out there that are training apprentices. What are you teaching them? How to put batteries on a charger and push a button? How to string PEX across the floor joists and pound in plastic staples to hold it up. How about how to slap an AAV on a trap rather than drill a straight line of holes for a proper vent pipe? Maybe you taught him how to open the package that the flex supplies came in and screw them on with a pair of water pump pliers. The next generation of plumbers will not know anything about plumbing or craftsmanship and you have yourselves to blame but hey.......as long as YOU are making a buck


A lot of old school ways are now a homeowners worst nightmare in my area.

Cast Iron in a house in many parts of Dallas is rotted out on the bottom. Solution - PVC replacement or Pipe Relining sewer pipes.

You got to stay ahead of the game or get left behind


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Maybe, I'm not convinced. We are still a very profitable company and sure, we don't lead CI anymore but I think you have to look at these new things with a wary eye and an eye on the future too. We have all seen 1st hand the effects of a lot of this cheap, fast and easy stuff. Hell, just try to hire a journeyman plumber under the age of 40 these days and see what he knows.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I have a tendency to become very nostalgic for the old ways learned from Gramps. That said, I also have to balance that with profitability. 

It is not always easy or what I want.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

You could always use your propress to cut castiron NH


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

playme1979 said:


> You could always use your propress to cut castiron NH


You know what? I considered doing that but, I already have a half dozen chain snappers and even then most of the guys have gone to a 4" angle grinder.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

You know I was a die hard... And it took along time for me to accept the new material out there...

But it was about labour cost and material cost

Either I die a slow death trying to push my out dated wears or accept the new material and technologies out there...

There is merit in the new pipe and fittings .... You just have to find it

On an other note.... You still need to know what you are doing ... Material does not make the plumber ... Just like saying you know how to build a house to code if you have a hammer and a saw...

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I hate PP its killing the trade


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

PP comes in handy. Well sell it as a service, mostly to apartment buildings and nursing homes. We get all the stuff prepped while we are notifying everyone. Cut, semi drain, repair and cleanup. The is nothing like having the water off for 10 min while replacing a leaking 2" tee. We even Rug Doctor the water out of the carpet if they have it. 

I see it as a service for some customers time does matter.


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## Marauder11 (Oct 7, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I hear this "leaking water" line all the time. A Jet Swett kit complete costs around 300 bucks and will solve the leaking water problem. We have two Pro-Press machines in the tool crib and 13 plumbers. There is a quarter of an inch of dust on the pro press boxes. Nobody uses them. The fittings are outrageously priced and you have to pre-order them and stock them because none of the supply houses around here carry many of them.. It is a glorified sharkbite and an abomination to an industry already plagued by the get er done quick and easy mentality. In an earlier post someone said "what's the hurry" and I agree. It's a gimmick at best. Oh BTW, you can now Pro-Press steel pipe.....as in for gas piping


You could pro press copper for gas too. Have to have the right gaskets in the fittings.


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

I love it when other plumbers don't embrace new technology, means more money for me!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

My boss hates it. We rent a press once in a blue moon I don't like it much ether. Always kicks out of plumb when I press it


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

HSI said:


> Would the Pro Press head fit inside a standard wall opening for a tub/ shower valve? I have not used Pro Press but looking to add it soon. Gave a price to change out four tub valves and was curious if this would work?
> Do the couplings all have stops or are they available without stops?


Didn't see an answer to this, up here in Canuckeville, I can get couplings without stops, which are pure gold for times when there is no give in either side of the line. I also include a tool charge when I use it for T&M repairs.


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## lead lover (Jul 18, 2012)

Yes it will work, you can get pro press slip couplings.


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## Jammyrft (Jan 24, 2011)

You guys are ridiculous if you think PP is going to ruin our trade. If a home owner or handy man were to do any plumbing the LAST method they're going to choose is pro press. The tool costs too much, the fittings are expensive, and parts need to be special ordered in most cases. Pex, wirsbo or other plastic pipes is what they would choose. I'd even bet they'd start soldering before dropping thousands on a PP tool just to do a little plumbing around the house. 

That being said its a great tool for certain applications. I've used this tool numerous times where soldering could be a fire hazard, and in tight spots are it made the job 100x easier then soldering. The parts are too pricey to justify new installations but none the less a pretty handy tool. Plus the Ridgid tool also has a snap cutter attachment for cast iron up to 4"


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I just wonder what shape the o rings will be in in 40 or 50 years. No one can really say. We all know a properly installed sweat joint will/ can out live the life of a building but can the o rings. 

I'm young in my Career and even I know of major water piping systems that where installed for years and now are known to be flawed and illegal to install. Not copper sweat joints done properly


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I just wonder what shape the o rings will be in in 40 or 50 years. No one can really say. We all know a properly installed sweat joint will/ can out live the life of a building but can the o rings.
> 
> I'm young in my Career and even I know of major water piping systems that where installed for years and now are known to be flawed and illegal to install. Not copper sweat joints done properly



I've seen many copper fitting and copper pipe develop pinholes and leak in less than 20 years. Some last longer than that no doubt, but know that copper can and will leak for a number of different reasons. 

If a copper pro-press last 40 year or so then I would say a person got their money out of it, but I suspect it will last longer than that. 

Time will tell.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

If installed correctly why would you believe it would not last as long as a soldered joint?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

The o ring isn't copper. Copper and sweat joints have passed the test of time. The o ring is basically rubber to me. I'm sure it's more then that but. Rubber rotts cracks dries out and more. It has yet to stand the test of time
How many products have come out that where all the rage only to be a waste and lots of law suits. Not just plumbing but all products. I've used it and will agian but we don't own a press nor do I like it. It takes the art or skill away !! I've never poured a led joint but lots if Ty seals and no hubs. Down the road new umbers will say I've never sweated copper on pressed it It's s shame to see theses artfully skills disappearing from our trade!!! it has it place but you when your press brakes at night and you have never learned tricks to sweat with water moving because you relied on your press all the time and there arnt any oldschool guys to even teach you. Thus is the future for our future plumbers !!! Relying on technology and not learning the proven methods of our old school craftsman. !!!


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Finally something we can agree on. Hip hip hooray! Pro-Press Sucks :thumbsup:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

At least we found some common ground. 
Most guys my age love pro press not me


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## Radium (Dec 25, 2010)

I used my propress tonight.

Sent from my iPad using PlumbingZone


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Radium said:


> I used my propress tonight.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PlumbingZone


If it broke could you have got the job done with out it?? ??


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## Radium (Dec 25, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> If it broke could you have got the job done with out it?? ??


Yes. I was repairing a 1/2" sweat coupling that got soldered earlier today. The water must have been running through it and made a steam path. Couldn't see the leak, but I knew it was there. I didn't have the patience to waste another half bottle of mapp gas. That's where pressing comes in handy, and commercial jobs.

Sent from my iPad using PlumbingZone


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I agree. With that. It has it's place. Let just make sure we teach the apprentices how to go with out it Wasn't trying to be smart wit you at. Hope it didn't come across that way.


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## Radium (Dec 25, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I agree. With that. It has it's place. Let just make sure we teach the apprentices how to go with out it Wasn't trying to be smart wit you at. Hope it didn't come across that way.


It's all good brother!

Sent from my iPad using PlumbingZone


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Cool


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> *The o ring isn't copper*. Copper and sweat joints have passed the test of time. The o ring is basically rubber to me. I'm sure it's more then that but. Rubber rotts cracks dries out and more. It has yet to stand the test of time
> How many products have come out that where all the rage only to be a waste and lots of law suits. Not just plumbing but all products. I've used it and will agian but we don't own a press nor do I like it. It takes the art or skill away !! I've never poured a led joint but lots if Ty seals and no hubs. Down the road new umbers will say I've never sweated copper on pressed it It's s shame to see theses artfully skills disappearing from our trade!!! it has it place but you when your press brakes at night and you have never learned tricks to sweat with water moving because you relied on your press all the time and there arnt any oldschool guys to even teach you. Thus is the future for our future plumbers !!! Relying on technology and not learning the proven methods of our old school craftsman. !!!


The oring isn't rubber. It's epdm, same stuff in millions of industrial joints around the world. Victaulic, mechanical flange, stuffing boxes and countless other application are in use at this time. Used my jetter today...hit 4000 psi. Guess what makes the quick connect work? An oring. 

I do not believe that the difficulty of a material installation is a measure of it's quality...if it was, we would all still be installing steel water and dwv pipe.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

gear junkie said:


> The oring isn't rubber. It's epdm, same stuff in millions of industrial joints around the world. Victaulic, mechanical flange, stuffing boxes and countless other application are in use at this time. Used my jetter today...hit 4000 psi. Guess what makes the quick connect work? An oring.
> 
> I do not believe that the difficulty of a material installation is a measure of it's quality...if it was, we would all still be installing steel water and dwv pipe.


I agree with all that !!!! But I still have doubts about it effecting the trade


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> we would all still be installing steel water and dwv pipe.


And we would all be better craftsman too. You can't cheat with steel waste and vent, you have to be able to measure it exactly right, every time, because unlike PVC you can't lean against a riser to make a piece cut to short work. Steel water supply works the same way, if you want it to look like a pro did it, you have to cut and thread it correctly the first time, every time, or you are cutting and threading a new piece.

It takes skill to install steel pipe, while anyone can install lick it and stick it pipe like PVC or ABS, and don't even get me started on that PEX crap that is the king of the home centers, a twelve year old kid could install that.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I cut my teeth on blk pipe. 2 years as a fire suppression fitter And yes it has no forgiveness


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> And we would all be better craftsman too. You can't cheat with steel waste and vent, you have to be able to measure it exactly right, every time, because unlike PVC you can't lean against a riser to make a piece cut to short work. Steel water supply works the same way, if you want it to look like a pro did it, you have to cut and thread it correctly the first time, every time, or you are cutting and threading a new piece.
> 
> It takes skill to install steel pipe, while anyone can install lick it and stick it pipe like PVC or ABS, and don't even get me started on that PEX crap that is the king of the home centers, a twelve year old kid could install that.


yep, and I have been be beating my brains out at a nuke plant the past two weeks, because the great, true, kings of cast iron installed tees on their back and used vent pattern tapped cast iron elbows for urinal piping. 130 plumbers who sure got the attitude, but not the guts to care about their work. It was all dead nuts, though, except for the arms that were back pitched, because the glorious all knowing 130 plumbers weren't gonna bother to cut and thread another nipple, because they blew a measurement. 
I really shouldn't complain, now they got a Joliet plumber who can break open a wall, cut out the great and perfect steel fittings, install cleanouts, rod the lines and and install lick and stick fittings that have proper drainage sweep.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

sorry Folks I just don't see all the skill that was so important in That old bygone era. 
Our old cast and galvanived house are hacked and the plumbing looks horrible.

A bunch of old men (handy men of there day) still have threaders and pipe wrenches hanging on garage and basement walls So home owners were sure doing there own plumbing repaires back in the day. threaded pipe didn't stop them. Why? because it isn't that tuff it is just heavy and time consuming.

Heck I still have lead pots and okum out in the garage from my grandpa and he sure wasn't a plumber. 

Really what is so hard about soldiering a NEW system. that's the 1st day apprentice work.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

WTF ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

saysflushable said:


> sorry Folks I just don't see all the skill that was so important in That old bygone era.
> Our old cast and galvanized house are hacked and the plumbing looks horrible.
> 
> A bunch of old men (handy men of there day) still have threaders and pipe wrenches hanging on garage and basement walls So home owners were sure doing there own plumbing repairs back in the day. threaded pipe didn't stop them. Why? because it isn't that tuff it is just heavy and time consuming.
> ...


Attention to detail is attention to detail no matter the material being worked with. I too have seen more than a few homes with jacked up cast and galvanized, and certainly copper, all of which was supposed to be installed by these great plumbers of days gone by. 

A great plumber is not defined by the material he is installing, but by how he is installing the material. Is it straight, does it have proper pitch, is it laid out in the best way possible, etc....


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Indie said:


> Attention to detail is attention to detail no matter the material being worked with. I too have seen more than a few homes with jacked up cast and galvanized, and certainly copper, all of which was supposed to be installed by these great plumbers of days gone by.
> 
> A great plumber is not defined by the material he is installing, but by how he is installing the material. Is it straight, does it have proper pitch, is it laid out in the best way possible, etc....


Agreed. Too many people here blame sloppiness on modern materials, when its the guy throwing it in. I've seen many more screwed up installs in galvanized and cast then I have on modern stuff. Blaming the tools is a sign of a poor craftsman.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> Agreed. Too many people here blame sloppiness on modern materials, when its the guy throwing it in. I've seen many more screwed up installs in galvanized and cast then I have on modern stuff. Blaming the tools is a sign of a poor craftsman.


Are you saying that its me, and NOT my golf clubs?!? :laughing:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

It'd the clubs.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Propress, all the downsides of copper with all the downsides of plastic pipe.

Excellent


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## CoralRockPlumb (Jun 1, 2012)

Propress is an option not a replacement, its great for live lines, had a 1 1/2 copper line , could not find shut off, cut it and slapped a gate valve on it, the water stopped with out pressing it, cool hu.

who the hell wants to soilder a 4" line ? just ask for a bigger down payment, and hey they will pay beacuse its less work for the fire department


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I love to solder big lines!!!


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I love to solder big lines!!!


that sounded a touch fruity....:jester:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

If you only knew. Are you one of those few bashful plumbers???


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