# How do you test a back-flow preventer



## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

I had a few customers call me about getting there back flow preventer tested and inspected. There is 2 towns in PA that have have this done on there potable water. Is there a guage that I have to buy? Thanks all.


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## 100 Watt (Aug 11, 2011)

Call a licensed backflow tester! 

I would assume the water purveyor is requiring it be done by a licensed tester.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Here we have to be licensed. I would guess it's the same for you.

The required course was a few hundred dollars (can't remember exactly - maybe $600?).

Add a set of differential gauges - about $1000 at a good discount.

Add annual licensing fees (varies from city to city), and annual gauge calibration certificate ($150). Total $225 minimum.

Add re-certification every 5 years - another $600 or so and class time.

It's not inexpensive to get and maintain the required certification and equipment IMO. I do it but, don't do enough of it to make it worth while on it's own. It's a service that my commercial customers need so I feel I should provide it. Our city hasn't really dug in and forced compliance enough yet. Perhaps once they get strict with the surveys, premise isolation and annual certification follow ups, that may change.

While it's not difficult to test a device, there is quite a bit you need to know about back flow prevention and cross connection control.

Check with the AWWA (American Water Works Assoc.) for more detail.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

MarkToo said:


> Here we have to be licensed. I would guess it's the same for you.
> 
> The required course was a few hundred dollars (can't remember exactly - maybe $600?).
> 
> ...


Pretty much the same here except we have to recertify every 2 years. There are other courses but an AWWA certificate is the most widely accepted. Some of the other courses are only recognized locally. 

Here's some info on training. This is a school that I teach at down here in Florida. www.floridaplumbingandbackflow.com We have had people come from out of state to get certified, but I'm sure there's somebody closer to you.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

The best tests are scan tron and a number two pencil. When in doubt choose C.



Seriously, around here it's a forty hour course to become certified.


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

I believe the process starts with having a plumbing license first.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Nope, you don't have to have a plumbing license to test. 

Just installation and repair needs a plumbing license.


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Nope, you don't have to have a plumbing license to test.
> 
> Just installation and repair needs a plumbing license.


That wasn't my purpose or point but,

Why would someone hire to test but they can't service or fix? Just saying-


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

ZL700 said:


> That wasn't my purpose or point but,
> 
> Why would someone hire to test but they can't service or fix? Just saying-


I couldn't tell you. I think it's ridiculous. I don't think you should turn the water off if you cannot fix it if it breaks.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> *How do you test a back-flow preventer....*


If I needed to test one, I'd pay Chris Conner to come to Oklahoma. Might even give him some Biz Brew Coffee too.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> I had a few customers call me about getting there back flow preventer tested and inspected. There is 2 towns in PA that have have this done on there potable water. Is there a guage that I have to buy? Thanks all.


 





You need to be certified to test and repair these devices. There are (2) certifications. (1) for testing and (2) for repair. The water utility dept. that oversees the cross connection control program in your area is going to want to see your credentials before they will accept a backflow test report from you. 

Some towns want you to pull a permit just to test the device, (I know, sounds extreme, but I like it) and other towns barely check your credentials; but the towns that barely check your credentials at a minimum want you to be certified in backflow.

If this is something you want to get into, you'll need to take an approved course. BE SURE that the course provider is giving you the course that will give you both test and repair. I've had flyers come to me in the mail advertising backflow certification but their price was only the tester cert. They deceptively left out the part that to get the repair cert. would cost more....:yes:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

This is the one thing I wish I would have done while working for somebody else. I'd love to get into backflow testing but I'd have to travel 120+ miles for a week long course. I just don't see how I could make it work and not lose a ton of work in the process. Hell, I'd pay 50% more if I could do it online. 






Paul


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

ZL700 said:


> That wasn't my purpose or point but,
> 
> Why would someone hire to test but they can't service or fix? Just saying-



Because the testers without a plumbing license are a lot cheaper . I have my bpat license here in texas .The class is a 40 hour class ,you have to recertify every 3 years and the gauges around here are about 750.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

rocksteady said:


> This is the one thing I wish I would have done while working for somebody else. I'd love to get into backflow testing but I'd have to travel 120+ miles for a week long course. I just don't see how I could make it work and not lose a ton of work in the process. Hell, I'd pay 50% more if I could do it online.
> ...
> 
> 
> ...


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> This is the one thing I wish I would have done while working for somebody else. I'd love to get into backflow testing but I'd have to travel 120+ miles for a week long course. I just don't see how I could make it work and not lose a ton of work in the process. Hell, I'd pay 50% more if I could do it online.
> 
> Paul


IAPMO is offering a 40-hour course in Paso Robles, July 24-27, 2012.

You would have to schedule work before and after classes but at least you would be in town.

http://www.iapmodwbp.org/Pages/TrainingandCertification.aspx

Mark


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

THANK YOU MARK!! I've checked probably 10 times in the last few years and the closest I've ever seen was Fresno or Bakersfield. I think I could swing that. Can I buy gauges at the class or do I need to have them beforehand? 




Paul


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> If I needed to test one, I'd pay Chris ConnOr to come to Oklahoma. Might even give him some Biz Brew Coffee too.


Hey, if you're buyin' I'm flyin.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I think the local union was giving the class at night last year. 

Call yours and find out if they will or have considered it.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> THANK YOU MARK!! I've checked probably 10 times in the last few years and the closest I've ever seen was Fresno or Bakersfield. I think I could swing that. Can I buy gauges at the class or do I need to have them beforehand?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They do not sell equipment but generally you use theirs. They will have several different brands there so you can see which ones you like. Register early because they may fill quickly.

Mark


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Rock here is a great source for valves, parts, test equipment and even free downloads of parts books and such. http://testgauge.net/


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Thanks all good to know. I don't have time for that right now.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

I just started taking the back flow class this week. Here the cert is good for three years. The gauges have to be calibrated every year.
The class for certs takes 40 hours. After that is a 40 hour rebuild class. Then there is a 32 hour cross connection class. 
 Several of the cities require a face to face meeting with the water department before you are allowed to test and repair in their jurisdiction.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

ZL700 said:


> That wasn't my purpose or point but,
> 
> Why would someone hire to test but they can't service or fix? Just saying-



I think it's a work around for the irrigation folks maybe? They can do an annual on their PVB when winterizing.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I have tested two here in 14 months, both were for OSHA inspections. In Tucson every business was required to have one some places more

They were tested every year with paper work going to the water dept. If the test was not done, they popped them for $88 and turned the water off if not done in 3 days. If they turned the water off the turn on fee was pricey. 

I did all the testing at my company for a few years, most of the rebuilding also, most of the techs were afraid of them.

40 hr cert coarse test & rebuild. Retest every 3 yrs with your own gauges, calibrate every year.

I miss the easy money.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Rock here is a great source for valves, parts, test equipment and even free downloads of parts books and such. http://testgauge.net/


That's who I use. In Illinois, you have to be a licensed plumber to get a Cross Connection Control Device Inspection License. Unless you work for a water purveyor and then you can only test the devices at your treatment plant.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Something else to look into is permit confined space training , a lot of city's here in Texas are requiring this along with the bpat license now.


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## studmaster1 (Dec 10, 2011)

I go insane thinking about th amount of time and money I spent geting educated and certified an then walk into someones home where the sprinkler geniuses put a 1024 on the line (not kosher). I ask the customer if they know what it is and why its important to have it tested and certified by a competant person at least once a year and have yet to come accross anyone who could answer me. I think the water authority should be cracking down on these irrigation companies.
Oh, and look on the CDC's website to see how many waterborne illnesses and deaths occor anually because of cross connections.


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## Turd Chaser (Dec 1, 2011)

In Wisconsin, we have to be licensed by the state. However you do not need to be a plumber in order to test backflows. We recently signed a large commercial contract to test backflows (which always leads to more work). They went with us (plumbers) because their old backflow tester was a soccer mom. Literally she would show up in her minivan and leave the kids in the van while she tested several backflows. If you think about it, it is a great gig for a stay at home mom or a retired person.


Contact your local union, they are always offering classes. If you do not belong to a union (join one...j/k) they will still let you take the class, only you have to pay for it where as us union members get the classes for free. But believe me we are paying for it one way or another.


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## Fireguy97 (Jan 6, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> I think it's a work around for the irrigation folks maybe? They can do an annual on their PVB when winterizing.


Everything that you can and can't do in plumbing is based on the inspectors interpretation of code. In British Columbia, our plumbing code states that only a licensed plumber can make any "change" to the existing plumbing system. I can test, repair, and replace an existing backflow assembly. I'm not making any changes to the system, and everything is legal with the municipality and inspectors.

All Plumbers the have schooled in Canada have received training, and the complete backflow assembly testing course during trade school. Some keep the certification going over the years, a lot have not.

MarkToo, Not 100% sure about Ontario, but most other jurisdictions in Canada don't allow a PVB as a legal backflow assembly. The other point is that I'm wondering why anyone would test a backflow assembly when you are turning off a system for four or five months?

Mick


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## Fireguy97 (Jan 6, 2012)

studmaster1 said:


> I go insane thinking about th amount of time and money I spent geting educated and certified an then walk into someones home where the sprinkler geniuses put a 1024 on the line (not kosher). I ask the customer if they know what it is and why its important to have it tested and certified by a competant person at least once a year and have yet to come accross anyone who could answer me. I think the water authority should be cracking down on these irrigation companies.


I feel the same way, and get all of the education and certs. that I can. Some of the _"sprinkler geniuses" (I like that term)_ in my area do the same thing to cut costs. When I see it, and the client won't do anything about replacing it with a proper backflow assembly, the city finds out about it. 

I'm not going to take the responsibility and touch a system that isn't to code when I leave. I have backflow information pamphlets and they get a little education. I tell them that with my city license and certification, I have to report the non-compliant device. I also let the client know that if the _"sprinkler genius"_ that install it cut corners to cut costs, then I can pretty well guarantee that he cut corners other places too.

If the client won't change it, I have a pre-printed form in my truck that states, "Irrigation system is not compliant to City By-Law ***-XX due to non-compliant backflow assembly. Only after it's signed and dated will I work on the system.

My invoice also gets rubber stamped with the same non-compliance note. The backflow device is always changed out. It’s up to the Municipality to crack down on the _"sprinkler geniuses"_ that install non-complaint systems. But they can’t do anything if they don’t know about it.

Mick


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Fireguy97 said:


> All Plumbers the have schooled in Canada have received training, and the complete backflow assembly testing course during trade school. Some keep the certification going over the years, a lot have not.


*Backflow prevention and Cross Connection Control is a separate 40 hour certification course and is not part of the apprenticeship programs - at least in Ontario but, I suspect it's uniform across the country.

*


Fireguy97 said:


> MarkToo, Not 100% sure about Ontario, but most other jurisdictions in Canada don't allow a PVB as a legal backflow assembly. The other point is that I'm wondering why anyone would test a backflow assembly when you are turning off a system for four or five months?


*A PVB is a standard, testable backflow device and can be used for all types of hazards with special considerations. It's most common use is irrigation. (See CSA Standard B64.10-07 Section 4.3.5.2.) The testing of devices isn't optional and must be completed annually regardless of the use it gets. 

You would know this if you were certified.*

Perhaps you could post an introduction so that we can get to know you a little better and understand where you're getting your info?


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## Paddy (Sep 2, 2011)

Are the structures single family homes? Just curious.


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