# Toilets



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I am not mentioning any names because this is a public forum, but as many here know (And for those who dont) I am besides being a licensed plumber I am also a licensed building contractor. I do both, carpentry and plumbing. We had 2 jobs recently where we had to replace a bunch of damaged Sheetrock and flooring because the HO claimed the toilets stoped up and over flowed all night! Now, I find this hard to believe because you need for 2 things to go wrong at the same time. The fill valve must malfunction and keep running, and the main has to be clogged too! Now, what are the odds of this happening? But, thats what they claimed anyway. I think different. Sounds to me like someone wanted a remodel!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

If the toilet is stopped up and pressure high enough to hold open the flapper or the high level in the bowl keeps the flapper open, and someone walks away from the toilet without looking---I had my own master bath toilet do it...its a silent enemy.

I had a liability at a spec house where the real estate agents and painters could use the facilities and that one the main got blocked though. Someone walked away and it kept running for the weekend.

But I would be suspicious anyway.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Bill said:


> I am not mentioning any names because this is a public forum, but as many here know (And for those who dont) I am besides being a licensed plumber I am also a licensed building contractor. I do both, carpentry and plumbing. We had 2 jobs recently where we had to replace a bunch of damaged Sheetrock and flooring because the HO claimed the toilets stoped up and over flowed all night! Now, I find this hard to believe because you need for 2 things to go wrong at the same time. The fill valve must malfunction and keep running, and the main has to be clogged too! Now, what are the odds of this happening? But, thats what they claimed anyway. I think different. Sounds to me like someone wanted a remodel!


Only seen this happen once at a McDonalds. Fill valve malfunction toilet clogged over flowed and Floor drain was blocked with dirt and sand flowed out into lobby over night. :laughing: 
Got that call at 3:30 am when their maintenance guy gave up after about 30 minutes with the plunger he did shut the water off. Big flood. Must have been over flowing for about 2 - 2 1/2 hours they leave at 12:00 am Maintenance comes in at 3:00 am
Think it was done on purpose New fillvalve flapper wad of paper in toilet. Oh well thanks $$$$$$$
Plus clearing floor drain and toilet auger. $$$$$$$


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Soooo, then may I assume that it is plausible that this scenario may actually happen?

Not trying to be smart, but just dont seem logical to me.

But wait! Pressure?? In a residential toilet? Come on, if the flapper opens the water dumps. It goes into the bowl and over flows and the tak empties. Thus the flapper falls. Makes no sense.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

I am also licensed in both plumbing and building. We are seeing more and more insurance claims for damaged homes. Must be a sign of the times. Lots of floods and mold problems. I haven't seen the toilet running over all night long yet but some of the damages have been pretty questionable. The one that stands out the most for me was a pinhole leak that flooded a great deal more than I would have expected to see from a misting pinhole leak.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

In a home. I doubt it. the chances are very slim But anything can happen.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Proud Plumber said:


> I am also licensed in both plumbing and building. We are seeing more and more insurance claims for damaged homes. Must be a sign of the times. Lots of floods and mold problems. I haven't seen the toilet running over all night long yet but some of the damages have been pretty questionable. The one that stands out the most for me was a pinhole leak that flooded a great deal more than I would have expected to see from a misting pinhole leak.


Thats what I am talking about. Free renovations!


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Proud Plumber said:


> I am also licensed in both plumbing and building. We are seeing more and more insurance claims for damaged homes. Must be a sign of the times. Lots of floods and mold problems. I haven't seen the toilet running over all night long yet but some of the damages have been pretty questionable. The one that stands out the most for me was a pinhole leak that flooded a great deal more than I would have expected to see from a misting pinhole leak.


I do need new bathrooms :whistling2: :laughing:


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

On some toilets if the seat is up and the lid not just right ( I know its sounds like a stretch) it touches the handle and can hold open the flapper.

Or some handles stick because the rubber chain wasnt trimmed right....just trying to help


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

People call for dripping fausets tubs running toilets because it keeps them up or wakes them up.

How do you not hear toilets over flowing all night :whistling2:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Bill said:


> Thats what I am talking about. Free renovations!


Nothing FREE about it, insurance co dont loose money. They jack up there rates on all of us because of knuckleheads like this


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Bill said:


> Thats what I am talking about. Free renovations!


Free home care... Maybe we can get it on the the agenda after we get free health care. Might as well throw that in the scheme of things while they are at it. :whistling2:


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> People call for dripping fausets tubs running toilets because it keeps them up or wakes them up.
> 
> How do you not hear toilets over flowing all night :whistling2:


Easy--when its that way the water just slightly flows over the bowl and the ballcock is in an almost closed condition......1/2" water in my master bedroom ...


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I hate being the only one on this side of the topic


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Recently I had a call with a WC on the second floor that had ran for who knows how long. Neighbor noticed water running out of the garage. Homeowners where out of town, but thought it was the new WC in the master we just completed a year ago, but lucky for me it was the one of the secondary baths. It was a black/yellow ballcock that split inside the tank and sprayed full pressure towards the lid and water run down the backside of the tank, what a mess that was.

Bill, your 2 job sounds suspicious. was anything found in the waste lines to justify the stoppage?


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

stillaround said:


> I hate being the only one on this side of the topic


In over 20 years I've been called out for this exact problem maybe a dozen times or more.
1. The toilet gets stopped up (very common)
2. Flapper gets hung up a little, water pressure keeping it up when the toilet clogs or it's just not sealing correctly.
3. If the toilet wasn't clogged the water just flows down the drain. If it's clogged it runs all over the floor very quietly until it's noticed.


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

It's a common occurance. Just need a person with a toilet that runs and they don't give a rats ass, now all you need is a stoppage to occur.

And to top it all off they're getting stoned while watching the movie Titanic.............


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

ESPinc said:


> Recently I had a call with a WC on the second floor that had ran for who knows how long. Neighbor noticed water running out of the garage. Homeowners where out of town, but thought it was the new WC in the master we just completed a year ago, but lucky for me it was the one of the secondary baths. It was a black/yellow ballcock that split inside the tank and sprayed full pressure towards the lid and water run down the backside of the tank, what a mess that was.
> 
> Bill, your 2 job sounds suspicious. was anything found in the waste lines to justify the stoppage?


Nope. Thats what is suspicious.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Bill said:


> We had 2 jobs recently where we had to replace a bunch of damaged Sheetrock and flooring because the HO claimed the toilets stoped up and over flowed all night!


 
Just curious as why you _had _to replace. (I am assuming for free?)

Seems to me if they were working fine as installed and nothing was found to be defective or installation error, the homeowner should bear the liability.

What did they say when no problems were found?


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Not my work, the whole remodel thing, insurance


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

*Copied from Christina: Some Customers!*

Gas Line Installation and Final Inspection...

The licensed plumber called for an inspection. Our inspectors are very timely here and said he could be there within 30 minutes. Bill cleaned up the paper that was laying in the grass and disposed of it, not thinking twice that he was cleaning up his jobsite. Upon inspection, the inspector noticed that there was not a cap on this sewer line and asked if one could be found. The plumber went to the truck and donated a cleanout plug for installation and didn't even bother charging the customer for the $2 item. A few months roll by and we get a notice that we have been filed on! The insurance company had a claim that we did $25,000 worth of damage to this $375,000 home.

I found the statute that read there must be a cleanout plug on all cleanouts. Without the plug, it is therefor a vent and must come up so far above the eave of the house, and so far away from window, and... well, it wasn't a VENT! It was a CLEANOUT! (PS nor was it an overflow). I also found the DEQ and EPA standards that read that the yard should not be used for a septic pit. What had happened over the weekend to the best I could tell on the filed claim is that the toilet in the downstairs bath had malfuntioned (flapper went bad, yard line could have stopped, whatever) and flooded the house through both the shower drain and the stool being that this was the lowest level of the home. According to (I am not sure if it is DEQ or EPA or IPC) but it reads that maintenance is the homeowners responsibility. Long story short, with a letter of explanation and copies of all IPC, DEQ and EPA regulations we were found not liable for something that we were not called to repair "the toilet" or "the sewer line".


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I have seen the scenario where a toilet flapper stayed floating.
It was on an older 3.5 gpf toilet with a Fluidmaster 400A and the water pressure was at 120 psi.

The water level in the tank never got low enough for the flapper to seat and as it ran an extended length of time, the septic and its leaching fields became saturated with the toilet in the 1st floor 1/2 bath overflowing.

Once the water supply to the toilet was shut off the septic system caught up and normal drainage was occurring when I arrived.

The only evidence i was able to find other than the flood damage in the home was the high tide water line in the riser for the septic tank.

In this case pressure reducing valve and thermal expansion tank on the water heater was the cure.


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

This may be a little far fetch but I have seen it happen one time. We were called to an older house with the same thing you have described. What happened was thier toilet was stopped up they only had 1 3 inch vent through the roof. We had a cold front coming in and the wind was gusting really hard outside. I was in the house working with an auger trying to unstop the toilet. While I was working on it I noticed that everytime that the wind would gust it would make the water in the bowl bubble up and you could hear the flapper being pushed up. So I took the tank lid off and watched it for a while and sure enough every time the wind blew the change in the atmosphereic pressure would cause the toilet to flush. Like I said its far fetched but it does happen. Another thing I noticed on another job is that they had those fuzzy tank covers on the tank and it was not properly installed and it would cause the tank lever to hang up leaving the flapper up. I always recommend taking those covers off as I think they are nothing but a nesting ground for bacteria especially if you have kids that have a little trouble keeping thier aim pointing down.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I agree those covers are nasty. Kinda reminds me of wall to wall carpet in a bathroom. Unless your an absolute neatfreak, it's gonna get gross in no time. 
While I'd be very skeptical of the claim, it's very possible. I can't tell you how many times I've been in someone's house to fix a toilet, where they have to jiggle the handle to get the flapper to seat. Sometimes people will let this type of problem go for years.....


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## 1972plumber (Sep 19, 2009)

It's funny how people will let a simple fix such as a handle that needs to be jiggled go on.

I love it when you use someones bathroom they tell you just jiggle the handle


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