# Florida Code/Commercial Building Renovations/Water Coolers



## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Does anyone know this off the top of there head...

If you have an existing single ADA water cooler, do you have to replace it with a bi-level water cooler?

I've searched the FL Plumbing Code and Chapter 11 Accessibility Code.
I can't seem to find a straight up answer in either.

Anyone dealt with this before?:blink:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I have done re-models in churches and we replaced (1) water cooler. But maybe churches are classified differently than a commercial property. You need to speak with the chief plumbing inspector in your location.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks Tommy!

I'm trying to estimate a remodel. The owner has already had other plumbers come through for a site visit. From what I get from it all is that another plumber told the owner that they will have to alter the in-wall plumbing because they HAVE to replace the ADA water cooler with a bi-level.
Damn it sucks when you get put on the spot and can't site some code stating that the other plumber was wrong and was just trying to get more money.

But again, thanks Tommy.I wanted to ask before calling the AHJ. 

The only bit of info I can find in the accessibility code is 11.4.1.3 (10) (a)
"Where only one drinking fountain is provided on a floor, there shall be a drinking fountain which is accessible to individuals who use wheelchairs in accordance with Section 11-4.15 and one accessible to those who have difficulty bending or stooping. (This can be accommodated by the use of a "hi-lo" fountain; by providing one fountain accessible to those who use wheelchairs and one fountain at a standard height convenient for those who have difficulty bending; by providing a fountain accessible under Section 11-4.15 and a water cooler; or by such other means as would achieve the required accessibility for each group on each floor.*"*
and 11.4.15

link http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/fl/st/b200v04/st_fl_st_b200v04_11_sec004.htm

But it's so vague I can't really decipher it when it comes to "alterations" to a building.

Yes, new structures requiring a drinking fountain MUST HAVE a Bi-Level Drinking Fountain.

I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some outstanding code that stated it before I called.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I have learned (the hard way...) with re-models, there is usually something that pops up that was un-forseen. 

Make sure you know your material costs prior to sumbitting your proposal.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Got off the phone with the plumbing inspector.

On all commercial remodels at least 20% of the construction costs have to go towards upgrading the building to ADA standards. Or in other words, if the building is already to code (it was remodeled in 1995) there is a good chance I will need to replace the single compartment ADA water cooler with a bi-level. 

Pretty cool, I did not know that.

see link for more info:
I did a quick search. So there's probably more up to date info out there

http://www.miamidade.gov/building/library/brochure_disability_accessibility.pdf


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm glad you posted this, I have only done re-models in residential and a few in churches. In the past when doing commercial, the commercial jobs were always new construction. In the commercial new const. we of course installed the bi-level water coolers. And as I stated, at the churches, we installed a single-level water cooler.

Here's some trivia for you, 6th Density, what is the temperature, per code for the water in a water cooler?


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> I'm glad you posted this, I have only done re-models in residential and a few in curches. In the past when doing commercial, the commercial jobs were always new construction. In the commercial new const. we of course installed the bi-level water coolers. And as I stated, at the churches, we installed a single-level water cooler.
> 
> Here's some trivia for you, 6th Density, what is the temperature, per code for the water in a water cooler?


LOL, I don't know!!! Never heard of such a monster. With the company I estimate for, I've yet to see a spec on it. And 75% of our bread and butter are military estimates with retardedly, stupid, over-kill spec's...

LOL, you got me there Tommy!!
I'd have to say that there is not code on it, but if their was it would have to be at a temp. that keeps Legionnaires at bay. 

Heck to top it all off, we've got a potential design build remodel where the arch and owner think they will just use a watercooler PROVIDED AND SUPPLIED by your local water cooler specialists. I doubt it will fly, I'm going to contact the local code on Monday (the structure we are talking about is in a different code district than from above).

FL code states that water cooler and bottled water cannot substitute for more than 50 percent of a drinking fountain.

Talk about room for interpretation of the AHJ, especially for renovations. 

Thanks for the input Tommy!!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

When studying for my state exam, I thought that the temp. of the water at a water cooler might be something that the sneaky state test writers might throw at me. So I checked into it. 

According to ARI 1010 (Air-conditioning and refrigeration institute) standard, the water cooler has to chill the water down to 50 degrees F. I even called a manufacturer of water coolers, and they told me that all models leave the factory set at 50 degrees. 

I don't think you'll see that on a Florida plumbing exam because it is not in the plumbing code, but I wasn't taking anything for granted. I studied my a$$ off for (6) months.


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

I would give a bid both ways with the note of you contacting the inspector to see which he wants.Don't lie if you are not sure. It does happen I run into situations and I will just bid it as such..
A $
B $$
Pending administrative authority.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Also, ideally you should know all the fixtures that the customer wants for their re-model before you give a bid. That's the correct way to do it. Some people are flying by the seat of their pants and doing a re-model for the first time. Those are the ones who buy the fixtures as they go. So you could give a price to install a cust. supplied tub valve thinking it's going to be a Moen, and the hand you some Grohe valve that also needs a volume control....:furious: Ask me how I know....:whistling2:


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> Also, ideally you should know all the fixtures that the customer wants for their re-model before you give a bid. That's the correct way to do it. Some people are flying by the seat of their pants and doing a re-model for the first time. Those are the ones who buy the fixtures as they go. So you could give a price to install a cust. supplied tub valve thinking it's going to be a Moen, and the hand you some Grohe valve that also needs a volume control....:furious: Ask me how I know....:whistling2:


Tell me about it. In the bid at the top of the page the owner wanted to buy all material, thinking that he could save the markup money. I played his game and gave him an estimated price for material cost and a estimated price for our labor. The job was going to take about 10 days worth of labor. I added an extra 4 hours for each day for non-productive time for when the owner has to go to the supply house and get the material himself.

What's sad is that by the time we buy material at a discount from our suppliers and then put markup on it, it's pretty much apples to apples compared to him buying it at the supply house with the normal supply house markup.

I didn't really want the job, but had to put a number on it none the less. Our boss wants us to put a number on almost everything. I'm averaging about 3 to 5 bids a week. Mainly military right now because they are trying to spend all their money before the end of September so they can get it back from the government for next year. And now Obama is talking about another economic package!! Looking good on our end!!


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