# BradFord White Honeywell gas valve design change



## PlumberGuy79 (Feb 24, 2019)

This is the second water heater in the last 5 days I’ve installed and noticed the gas valve update. Has anyone else ran across it?


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## Mikeob1998 (Apr 22, 2018)

PlumberGuy79 said:


> This is the second water heater in the last 5 days I’ve installed and noticed the gas valve update. Has anyone else ran across it?




Haven’t changed here in Illinois. Yet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

What change are we talking about? The cheap plastic housing?


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

I saw that same set up on a State water heater at my girlfriends house
last month :biggrin:


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## davidplumber (Feb 21, 2019)

the current technology is going up this day .But it doesnt mean for durability, size maybe, simple maitenance --- Never. if broke bey bey.. buy all unit again, yesterday change water heater 1 y old becouse the gas valve hard to find the same, Conclusion-------- business , better for us as plumber . more phone call ... For costumer-------- HA HA HA.....who care?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

davidplumber said:


> the current technology is going up this day .But it doesnt mean for durability, size maybe, simple maitenance --- Never. if broke bey bey.. buy all unit again, yesterday change water heater 1 y old becouse the gas valve hard to find the same, Conclusion-------- business , better for us as plumber . more phone call ... For costumer-------- HA HA HA.....who care?


An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. https://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

davidplumber said:


> the current technology is going up this day .But it doesnt mean for durability, size maybe, simple maitenance --- Never. if broke bey bey.. buy all unit again, yesterday change water heater 1 y old becouse the gas valve hard to find the same, Conclusion-------- business , better for us as plumber . more phone call ... For costumer-------- HA HA HA.....who care?



do you speak english or just jibberish?


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

PlumberGuy79 said:


> This is the second water heater in the last 5 days I’ve installed and noticed the gas valve update. Has anyone else ran across it?





I don't see any difference. I have been using B/W for the last few years and there doesn't seem to be any difference.


In fact I think more heater manufacturers are using this valve now.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

That valve SUCKS donkey dic/ 
and I try my best to stay away from it....

I keep both the grey bradford control in my truck and the white honeywell controll also.....but its a pain in the ass to fool with.

I also have to keep a couple of generic thermopile in my truck worth about 40 bucks and have to wire nut it in when the stupid thing goes bad.... 

. I learned to just to snip it off with as much wire slack as possible and not attempt to unplug that stubborn plug from the control.....

May god have mercy on your soul if you break off the wire end going into that crappy plug that is jammed into the valve-----
then its the "crying game" while laying on the laundry room floor cause you dont carry a spare one:crying::crying:

the customer is not happy about the cost of this junk either.... and holes like home depot and lowes do not keep replacement parts in stock for the junk that they sell either.....

I stick with the Rheem unit with the older style valve on it with a simple thermocoupling on it.... .






...


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Old valve and new valve.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Mark, why don't you just replace the whole pilot assembly?

I just went out on a call today, Saturday for no hot water. And this Bradford White thermocouple doesn't look like the generic ones on my truck. In fact it has a red sticker on the thermocouple wire that says:* "Warning, replace with same part number."*

So rather than try to swap it out for one from my truck, I'm looking at my options.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> That valve SUCKS donkey dic/
> and I try my best to stay away from it....
> 
> I keep both the grey bradford control in my truck and the white honeywell controll also.....but its a pain in the ass to fool with.
> ...










This is the sticker on the thermocouple wire:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I can rotate the picture on my computer, but when I upload it here in a post, it is still upside-down.....:vs_mad:


Whatever.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> Mark, why don't you just replace the whole pilot assembly?
> 
> I just went out on a call today, Saturday for no hot water. And this Bradford White thermocouple doesn't look like the generic ones on my truck. In fact it has a red sticker on the thermocouple wire that says:* "Warning, replace with same part number."*
> 
> So rather than try to swap it out for one from my truck, I'm looking at my options.


It’s probably not a thermocouple. It’s probably a pilot generator/thermopile. It creates about 400 millivolts to run the Honeywell gas valve


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> This is the sticker on the thermocouple wire:


That sticker looks like it’s on the pilot tube, I circled in red what looks to be the pilot generator wire.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Originally Posted by Tommy plumber View Post
Mark, why don't you just replace the whole pilot assembly?

I just went out on a call today, Saturday for no hot water. And this Bradford White thermocouple doesn't look like the generic ones on my truck. In fact it has a red sticker on the thermocouple wire that says: "Warning, replace with same part number."

So rather than try to swap it out for one from my truck, I'm looking at my options.










Bradford White has come out with a new generation ICON valve
some time over the past few months... I assume it is supposed to be 
an improvement over the older version....

We have found a thermo-pile *generic* replacement part that you can install into one of these ICON units... you are wise to simply leave the plug alone and inserted into the unit and just clip off the wires down near the bottom so you have plenty of slack, then strip the wires bare and just use small wire nuts and install the new part into the
assembly..... It says in the paperwork it fits bradfords and many other brands.....

they seem to work ok and then sometimes they dont ......but 
hell its only 45 bucks for one of them , and that is dirt cheap for advanced technology like this ,,,,,,,com-paired to the common 10 dollar thermocoupling that is used on the Rheem pros........:vs_laugh:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I had to replace a thermopile on one of my tennats water heaters and used this one from amazon, $32.00 its lasting a few years so far time will tell, new and improved my a$$, just more money to the manufacture for parts..
https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-The...=B07JZVKGC6&psc=1&refRID=NZC7Q0AYK61392SHT1K8


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I had to replace a thermopile on one of my tennats water heaters and used this one from amazon, $32.00 its lasting a few years so far time will tell, new and improved my a$$, just more money to the manufacture for parts..
> https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-The...=B07JZVKGC6&psc=1&refRID=NZC7Q0AYK61392SHT1K8



That is a decent price for the whole assembly, I am going to have to buy a few...... as long as that piolit light tubing is long enough to reach the control that looks to be a good deal....

you realize that every one of these we fool with normally you have to break the seal on the front of the unit to make those new parts work properly... usually I have to totally cut out the whole rubber grommet on the firewall to force it all through that hole---- 

I have talked to a couple of salesman who claim it voids the fvir features on the water heater...... and many times I have seen the looking glass broken out and I have just used some silver flu tape to patch the hole.....

what else can you do ???.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Master Mark said:


> That is a decent price for the whole assembly, I am going to have to buy a few...... as long as that piolit light tubing is long enough to reach the control that looks to be a good deal....
> 
> you realize that every one of these we fool with normally you have to break the seal on the front of the unit to make those new parts work properly... usually I have to totally cut out the whole rubber grommet on the firewall to force it all through that hole----
> 
> ...





hey another use for silicone...it has a temp rating of 500F degrees, that replacement fit right in no problems, tube and wires were all long enough..from what I remember it pushed through the gasket with no problem..just as the old one pulled out..


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> It’s probably not a thermocouple. It’s probably a pilot generator/thermopile. It creates about 400 millivolts to run the Honeywell gas valve









Thanks Debo; first time dealing with BW. They are rare here. I hate chasing down manufacturer-specific parts.

I do remember years ago I went to replace a thermocouple on a Nat. gas W/H & the thermocouple was a left-hand thread. I can't remember the mfg. and I haven't run into that since.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> Originally Posted by Tommy plumber View Post
> Mark, why don't you just replace the whole pilot assembly?
> 
> I just went out on a call today, Saturday for no hot water. And this Bradford White thermocouple doesn't look like the generic ones on my truck. In fact it has a red sticker on the thermocouple wire that says: "Warning, replace with same part number."
> ...












You just elected to eat any and all liability. I'm surprised at you Mark because I know that you know this. {you are probably in the trade as long or longer than me.} Just imagine if something ever happened how a lawyer would have a field day with your company.
I would install all OEM parts or sell them a new W/H.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> You just elected to eat any and all liability. I'm surprised at you Mark because I know that you know this. {you are probably in the trade as long or longer than me.} Just imagine if something ever happened how a lawyer would have a field day with your company.
> I would install all OEM parts or sell them a new W/H.



Im gona have to disagree on that....if the part was designed to fit that brand water heater then no liability, if you juryrig it to fit something its not designed for then yes your looking for trouble...
just look at the auto industry..your gona tell me anyone not repairing cars with OEM parts is gona get sued if something happens?? and that applies to every repair industry out there that uses aftermarket/generic parts...
do you use OEM replacement parts to repair toilets? ( flooding can be real costly) if a part fails and floods the house...
now warranties for the water heater may be void if something happens and they find a non OEM part, but I dont think it will be an issue if it explodes, even if you used OEM parts your gona get the balls sued if you repair any gas appliance and it catches fire or blows up...


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Can I install a Bradford white thermopile on a Lowe’s brand whirlpool water heater and it work ok???These whirlpool junk wh’s are not made anymore


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

sparky said:


> Can I install a Bradford white thermopile on a Lowe’s brand whirlpool water heater and it work ok???These whirlpool junk wh’s are not made anymore


you can install anything on anything but do you want to? there should be cross reference numbers for parts to fit, if not and its totaly obsolete then replacing the WH is the safest bet and buyer beware for buying crap at a big box store..


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> That sticker looks like it’s on the pilot tube, I circled in red what looks to be the pilot generator wire.













Yup, you were right, I was looking at the wrong wire....LOL.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> It’s probably not a thermocouple. It’s probably a pilot generator/thermopile. It creates about 400 millivolts to run the Honeywell gas valve












Yup, you are correct again sir. I called Bradford White. They told me the exact same thing. They said the thermopile should be putting out between 350-700 millivolts. 

This lady's W/H was giving me a reading just under 400 mv.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tommy plumber said:


> Yup, you are correct again sir. I called Bradford White. They told me the exact same thing. They said the thermopile should be putting out between 350-700 millivolts.
> 
> This lady's W/H was giving me a reading just under 400 mv.


What you test it with??


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> You just elected to eat any and all liability. I'm surprised at you Mark because I know that you know this. {you are probably in the trade as long or longer than me.} Just imagine if something ever happened how a lawyer would have a field day with your company.
> I would install all OEM parts or sell them a new W/H.


I think you are over-reacting but that is ok too..... If they sell these replacement parts in the plumbing supply houses and they are made for this purpose, where is the liability??

Its just common sense that you have to somehow connect them to the control and if the plugs are not interchangeable with the honeywell control, then you connect them with common wire nuts ... the same kind of wire nuts used for electricity everywhere 

so you would opt to sell them a whole new water heater vs just hooking up the thermoplie with wire nuts???......


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> Can I install a Bradford white thermopile on a Lowe’s brand whirlpool water heater and it work ok???These whirlpool junk wh’s are not made anymore



the replacement thermopile I get works on whirlpool too...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

sparky said:


> What you test it with??














A multi-meter. Set it for DC voltage; {millivolts if it's on the scale.}


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> I think you are over-reacting but that is ok too..... If they sell these replacement parts in the plumbing supply houses and they are made for this purpose, where is the liability??
> 
> Its just common sense that you have to somehow connect them to the control and if the plugs are not interchangeable with the honeywell control, then you connect them with common wire nuts ... the same kind of wire nuts used for electricity everywhere
> 
> so you would opt to sell them a whole new water heater vs just hooking up the thermoplie with wire nuts???......













In a non-litigious society you might be safe, but not in this country. Once you cut the wire and alter it {key word here: ALTER} any country bumpkin lawyer fresh out of law school smells {2} things: Liability & Money.

If any plumber alters a product even if it makes perfect sense, you {probably} own it.

I worked for a company years back; the service manager could only get a {40} gal. Elec. W/H with 4500 Watt elements. The customer had like a {20} or {25} amp breaker so he wanted me to install a W/H with 3500 Watt elements.

I said, "Oh no problem Mike, I'll just switch the 4500 Watt elements with 3500 Watt elements from my service truck."

He would not allow it. He told me that by altering the W/H, we would be doing so to a UL listed product and now the liability falls on us. Was he too worried? I don't know. But that lesson stuck.


Companies do not want to admit any wrongdoing. They'd rather nail you and I to the wall than admit that their product was at fault for anything.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> I think you are over-reacting but that is ok too..... If they sell these replacement parts in the plumbing supply houses and they are made for this purpose, where is the liability??
> 
> Its just common sense that you have to somehow connect them to the control and if the plugs are not interchangeable with the honeywell control, then you connect them with common wire nuts ... the same kind of wire nuts used for electricity everywhere
> 
> so you would opt to sell them a whole new water heater vs just hooking up the thermoplie with wire nuts???......











I just remembered another incident. I was called to a man's rental property to give a quote on re-doing the plumbing. His rental property had caught fire and burned a portion of the unit. The fire dept. had come and extinguished the fire and he was waiting on insurance money to repair the place.

As we're walking around in the unit and talking I asked him where is the gas W/H? It wasn't in the unit. Do you know what he said? His home owner's insurance company seized the unit as part of their investigation.

I never did get that job nor did I ever hear what the outcome was but I'm confident that the insurance company was looking to deny the claim.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> In a non-litigious society you might be safe, but not in this country. Once you cut the wire and alter it {key word here: ALTER} any country bumpkin lawyer fresh out of law school smells {2} things: Liability & Money.
> 
> If any plumber alters a product even if it makes perfect sense, you {probably} own it.
> 
> ...



that I will agree with you, if it doesnt plug in like OEM and you have to " alter" it you may have problems...not worth the risk in my book...


Mark, yes wire nuts are used all the time to connect wires in electrical systems and connecting wires on boilers, but once you cut a factory component that wasnt meant to be wire nutted together its a whole new ball game..best answer to that is to call your insurance agency and see what they have to say about that since they would be paying out if something happened...that would fall in the same cataglory as welding tabs onto brake pads to fit a different truck than what they were made to fit...something no one in their right mind would do for liability reasons..


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> A multi-meter. Set it for DC voltage; {millivolts if it's on the scale.}





I want to know if he went to trade school. If he did than there is no reason for not knowing how to test voltage. Also his name is sparky.....








.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> In a non-litigious society you might be safe, but not in this country. Once you cut the wire and alter it {key word here: ALTER} any country bumpkin lawyer fresh out of law school smells {2} things: Liability & Money.
> 
> If any plumber alters a product even if it makes perfect sense, you {probably} own it.
> 
> ...





What was his solution?






.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I just remembered another incident. I was called to a man's rental property to give a quote on re-doing the plumbing. His rental property had caught fire and burned a portion of the unit. The fire dept. had come and extinguished the fire and he was waiting on insurance money to repair the place.
> 
> As we're walking around in the unit and talking I asked him where is the gas W/H? It wasn't in the unit. Do you know what he said? His home owner's insurance company seized the unit as part of their investigation.
> 
> I never did get that job nor did I ever hear what the outcome was but I'm confident that the insurance company was looking to deny the claim.


I suppose that anything is possible, but not probable... 

It still amuses me that Whirlpool water heaters was sending out new replacement gas controls and burner assemblies to homeowners and expecting them to install these parts themselves....this went on from 2002 through about 2015... and you wonder what kind of liability was implied when someone fools with their own heaters with the parts you sent them???:surprise::surprise:

the simple replacement thermopile has only milli-voltage going through it and into the honeywell control valve... worst case is the unit shuts down due to a loose wire nut..


this is also why I have the extra million dollar umbrella policy on the business
just in case someone claims they got scalded by a water heater that someone turned up too high.... I have been more worried about this issue over some issue with replacement parts.....

whatever level of comfort you feel is best for you .....


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> I suppose that anything is possible, but not probable...
> 
> It still amuses me that Whirlpool water heaters was sending out new replacement gas controls and burner assemblies to homeowners and expecting them to install these parts themselves....this went on from 2002 through about 2015... and you wonder what kind of liability was implied when someone fools with their own heaters with the parts you sent them???:surprise::surprise:
> 
> ...


I agree, I’d wire nut a universal thermopile in the water heater. We do it all the time with hot surface igniters for gas furnaces. The manufacturer of the universal igniter gives you a couple adapters in the package and two wire nuts. They say if the adapter for your brand isn’t in the package, cut the wires and use wire nuts.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Debo22 said:


> I agree, I’d wire nut a universal thermopile in the water heater. We do it all the time with hot surface igniters for gas furnaces. The manufacturer of the universal igniter gives you a couple adapters in the package and two wire nuts. They say if the adapter for your brand isn’t in the package, cut the wires and use wire nuts.


Over the years dealing with more than plumbing appurtenances even though an OEM may work it's a good idea to reference the "manufactures" information. Devices are designed and tested. Then certified by UL, CSA, ICC, ASTM, etc.


The certification comes with requirements to follow "manufactures installation instructions". Fail to follow these a warranty is voided and as mentioned possible litigation if something happens. I have seen this at least twice with roof decking and improperly vented roof. The plywood decking although possibly did de-laminate had a voided warranty since proper roof venting was not done.


I have also seen Dupont Tyvek warranty voided since the installation was not followed by using a different tape to seal it, when the instructions were specific on using Dupont brand tape. Were other air barrier products were not as specific.


The litigation will all hinge on the cost to repair, is it worth the property owners time and money to seek it or bite the bullet and take care of it themselves.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Most of us know and have seen god awful rigged up water heaters in our lives and have wondered how in gods name they did not explode or catch the house on fire or kill everyone in their sleep... On facebook I am a monitor for a site called " ban water heaters from box stores" and members are constantly posting pictures of water heater abortions..... ...

...Therefore you all know what you are doing and what is a reliable solid way to make a water heater repair with a thermopile . Your worries are on such a infinitely minor, minuscule level that it borders on being paranoid ...and of course that is why most of us have loads of insurance too....
.


If you are going to fret and worry over things like this I suggest that you just pack it up and close the doors of your business....:devil3::devil3:.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> What was his solution?
> 
> 
> 
> ...












That service manager finally found a supply house that could get a brand new W/H already with 3500 Watt elements installed from the mfg. {or maybe they were 3800 Watt. The point being he was not going to alter a new product}.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

My feeling is this, you do what you feel is safe, correct, and economically viable. Even if you genuinely have good intentions some one can still theoretically sue you whether it's your fault or not. The judicial system is not perfect. In order for us to have enough room to properly deal with the actual criminals we must accept that there will be ways for others to abuse the system. 


Freedom is all about risk. If you want freedom you must accept risk. I have the freedom to use non oem parts if I see fit, and some one else has the freedom to sue me. That is why we have insurance, to make up in some way for the failings that are inevitable at a small cost to us all.








.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> I want to know if he went to trade school. If he did than there is no reason for not knowing how to test voltage. Also his name is sparky.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I can test voltage,but very few meters have millivolts to test a thermocoupling,if you don’t have millivolts you can’t accurately test a thermocoupling


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

```

```



sparky said:


> Oh I can test voltage,but very few meters have millivolts to test a thermocoupling,if you don’t have millivolts you can’t accurately test a thermocoupling



Why would you want to waste your time testing the damn thing to see if it works or not?? If it is still under warranty, Just change everything just to be sure...
If it is out of warranty, change the thermopile first, and if that does not fix the problem then change the whole ICON valve and charge them for both... 

and if that does not do the trick, sell them a new heater and be done with it....:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

you made the trip out to the house to get them hot water and they might as well get their moneys worth... the parts are immaterial and really not worth fussing over.....


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


I have found lately that the dang thermal switch has been bad and not allowing the pilot to stay lit


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