# Installed a Shark Fitting



## jigs-n-fixtures (Feb 22, 2014)

Installed my first Sharks yesterday. Needed to fix a copper ninety that had pushed off when the line froze, and the copper above the ninety had split. 

This was between two joists sitting about 6-inches apart. Not sure how they originally soldered the joint. Got the mini-cutter up in and cut the vertical just above the split. Which allowed me to clean up the bad joint that had pushed off, and install the Shark 90, a short stub of PEX and then a Shark to the vertical to button it up. 

Checked it an hour later and no drips or weeps. I'll check it again in a week and see how it looks.

Dignity, Honor, and Respect: Even when their, dishonoring disrespect leaves you indignant.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Sometimes a Sharkbite is a risk worthy installation.

David


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## SunnyDaRench (Apr 2, 2014)

Nyc had its worst winter in many years, not complaining I love it, did a house with 38 different leaks on 1/2" and 3/4" copper lines, many were in difficult and tight spaces boss made me do most of it in shark bite fittings, to save time, I see the O ring failing over time, still have to make sure there everything is straight and supported and pushed in all the way


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SunnyDaRench said:


> Nyc had its worst winter in many years, not complaining I love it, did a house with 38 different leaks on 1/2" and 3/4" copper lines, many were in difficult and tight spaces boss made me do most of it in shark bite fittings, to save time, I see the O ring failing over time, still have to make sure there everything is straight and supported and pushed in all the way












That's alot of leaks in one house. Did their heat shut off? 

Are you guys reaming and de-burring the pipes before you install those things?


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## SunnyDaRench (Apr 2, 2014)

Yea they went to china for entire winter without winterizing house, and boiler shut down, yea I use a cheap homedepot HDX reaming and burring tool, it actually works better than my rigid plastic body reamer


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## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

That repair is a disaster waiting to happen IMHO. During this winter's deep freeze I came across two sharkbite fittings that popped of when the lines froze. A competitor of ours made a shark repair on a frozen burst water line. A week later the line froze again and the shark fitting popped off causing $20k in damage. Good luck!



jigs-n-fixtures said:


> Installed my first Sharks yesterday. Needed to fix a copper ninety that had pushed off when the line froze, and the copper above the ninety had split.
> 
> This was between two joists sitting about 6-inches apart. Not sure how they originally soldered the joint. Got the mini-cutter up in and cut the vertical just above the split. Which allowed me to clean up the bad joint that had pushed off, and install the Shark 90, a short stub of PEX and then a Shark to the vertical to button it up.
> 
> ...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

1929chrysler said:


> That repair is a disaster waiting to happen IMHO. During this winter's deep freeze I came across two sharkbite fittings that popped of when the lines froze. A competitor of ours made a shark repair on a frozen burst water line. A week later the line froze again and the shark fitting popped off causing $20k in damage. Good luck!


I don't see bursting and fittings pushing off as being a problem with SharkBites...

The shape change of a water molecule changing when it freezes pretty much assures that any material which cannot expand and contain the frozen molecule will indeed burst or push off...

The question is...
What measures did you take to prevent the freezing from happening in the future?


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I also agree that freezing is not an issue with the fitting. They are rated for 200 degrees and 200psi I believe. Even if there were no sharks and the line froze and busted they would have had the same damage.


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## SunnyDaRench (Apr 2, 2014)

Hmmmmm, what would happen if one of those propress fittings froze? Pull apart or burst?? Just gotta prevent freezing altogether,


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I've seen shark fittings freeze and split without coming off the pipe.


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## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

Redwood said:


> I don't see bursting and fittings pushing off as being a problem with SharkBites...
> 
> The shape change of a water molecule changing when it freezes pretty much assures that any material which cannot expand and contain the frozen molecule will indeed burst or push off...
> 
> ...


Like I said, I personally saw two that had popped off during the freeze. Perhaps the shark bite wasn't installed properly?:laughing: I can't explain why they popped off... but they did. 

For me, if a customer doesn't learn their lesson by protecting a freeze from reoccurring, I would rather have my repair fail by way of a split pipe than a popped off shark bite. Seems a lot more defensible.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

There is nothing that can contain freezing water....

Unless the material can expand allowing the expansion of the freezing water without breaking....


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## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

dclarke said:


> I also agree that freezing is not an issue with the fitting. They are rated for 200 degrees and 200psi I believe. Even if there were no sharks and the line froze and busted they would have had the same damage.


Freezing water exerts around 14,500 psi if I'm not mistaken.


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## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

Hey Red.. Do you know what the tensile strength of the different copper pipes are compared to what a shark can hold?


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## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

Redwood said:


> There is nothing that can contain freezing water....
> 
> Unless the material can expand allowing the expansion of the freezing water without breaking....


Like pex to a degree..


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

1929chrysler said:


> Like pex to a degree..


The psi exerted is pretty much unlimited...
It will exert pressure until it has reached its maximum expansion or the pressure is released...
Put water into a crack on granite rock, and let it freeze watch what happens...
When it splits off a 200' wide, 100' tall, 20' thick, piece of Half Dome, El Capitan, or Elephant Rock, in Yosemite, the tensile strength of copper pipe really doesn't matter.:laughing:






PEX does hold up to the expansion from freezing quite well...
There was study done a few years back that showed failure usually occurs when fittings are between 2" and 7' apart, when they are either closer or further apart there usually is no damage. PEX-AL-Pex is not freeze resistant at all....


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

If the sharkbites froze and popped off I'd guess the pipe also wasn't properly supported. I have used them in the past and will use them in the future. They work well in certain situations.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> Installed my first Sharks yesterday. Needed to fix a copper ninety that had pushed off when the line froze, and the copper above the ninety had split.
> 
> This was between two joists sitting about 6-inches apart. Not sure how they originally soldered the joint. Got the mini-cutter up in and cut the vertical just above the split. Which allowed me to clean up the bad joint that had pushed off, and install the Shark 90, a short stub of PEX and then a Shark to the vertical to button it up.
> 
> ...


Just curious, why go back with pex when you're only replacing 6" or so? You could still use the shark bites which are great for tight spaces surrounded by wood. On copper houses I always go back with copper unless its a repipe or something. I'm not saying you have to do it my way but just curious as to why you chose pex vs copper. On galvanized houses I'll always use pex as a replacement but not on copper houses.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I've had a Shark Bite pop off before. A long time customer of mine had a 1/2" copper wall hydrant pipe freeze and burst just inside a water heater room with a exterior door. I tried to sell heat maintenance cable along with the repair but he had never had a freeze problem in the 20 yrs he had been living there. With the damage being in wall I chose to sharkbite it vs risking fire. Well it froze again the next year. The sharkbite teeth dug into and grooved the copper until it popped off.

I used a sharkbite to make the repair again but protected it with heat maintenance cable. Several years have gone by and no call backs on freeze damage.

David


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## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

dhal22 said:


> I've had a Shark Bite pop off before. A long time customer of mine had a 1/2" copper wall hydrant pipe freeze and burst just inside a water heater room with a exterior door. I tried to sell heat maintenance cable along with the repair but he had never had a freeze problem in the 20 yrs he had been living there. With the damage being in wall I chose to sharkbite it vs risking fire. Well it froze again the next year. The sharkbite teeth dug into and grooved the copper until it popped off.
> 
> I used a sharkbite to make the repair again but protected it with heat maintenance cable. Several years have gone by and no call backs on freeze damage.
> 
> David


That's exactly what I saw on the shark bites that had popped off. Grooves gouged into the copper from the teeth of the shark bite.


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## SunnyDaRench (Apr 2, 2014)

Just went to a " installation of a water meter job" picture this copper 3/4" main coming out of foundation approx. 2'. Then a 3/4" sharkbite then another 8" a ball valve, cut line after valve , this was scary, **** was moving all over the place, true butcher job a sharkbite on a water main!


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Feb 22, 2014)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Just curious, why go back with pex when you're only replacing 6" or so? You could still use the shark bites which are great for tight spaces surrounded by wood. On copper houses I always go back with copper unless its a repipe or something. I'm not saying you have to do it my way but just curious as to why you chose pex vs copper. On galvanized houses I'll always use pex as a replacement but not on copper houses.


I had the pex on the truck, but we didn't have any copper. 

If we had the budget I'd replace all the copper in our buildings with pex. If I'd known how many splits and pushed off fittings we would find, I would have run pex for the whole house and been done with it. It would have taken less time. 

We normally don't have this bad of issues opening buildings in the spring. But with Congress's shutdown of the government last fall, my crew got furloughed, and the fire guys closed the buildings. Things were not done right and water got left in the lines on several of the buildings. It has been an interesting spring. Hopefully they don't do it again this fall.

Dignity, Honor, and Respect: Even when their, dishonoring disrespect leaves you indignant.


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