# above code.



## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

ok ilplumber put forth a challange to get off of some of our hot button topics of late. and get on with new topic. this thread could technically be put under the plbg code section but im considering this a general plumbing discussion. we all know that the codes in all of our areas are the minimum requirements. when and where do you guys choose to go above and beyond the minimum for the sake of craftsmanship. example: im replacing a rotten ci stack. my code says i can tie on to the cast via a no hub band or fernco. i prefer to burn out the lead clean the hub and use a caulk ferrule to start my pvc transition. the band would be quicker and cheaper and legal but i like the permanancy of the caulk ferrule. that said lets hear your examples.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Chicago code doesn't allow a repair in a CI stack to be repaired with PVC unless you are replacing the entire stack through the roof, nor does it allow No Hub couplings or rubber connectors. Here you would snap out a section, remove it from the closest hub, and re-install hub and spigot pipe and fittings using a Sisson fitting.


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## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

Yeah, I think I cornered the market on PVC soil pipe adapters!! I TRY to use soil pipe adapters whever possible, but sometimes it can be a little tough. I lean away from ferncos and use a stainless steel shielded clamp.

Other things that I do to exceed code is decrease my distance when spacing hangers, to make my installs a little more secure, I even go with more heavy duty hangers when possible. Usually all my DWV work in basements is hung with emlocks instead of j-hooks.

Instead of installing a pressure balanced tub and shower valve, I try to install a thermostatic mixing valve in accordance with ASTM 1017.

All of my wiring on the heating side of my business gets soderless terminals instead of looping the wire into the terminal screw.

I'm also really really picky about long sweeps or double 45's even if they aren't required for a certain type of change of direction. I'm also really picky about venting as well.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I agree with your original post mjcoleman. one example of what I do is we put supports closer together than code calls for to keep the pipe very straight and permanent. I've seen a lot of weight on piping other than intended.

For example. If you are hanging across somebody's future laundry room ya might put extra supports on. Knowing they are going to have 200 lbs. of clothing hanging off of it.

Good post! Thanks for taking my challenge to heart.:thumbsup:


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

As was mentioned before, instead of sweeps I try to run 45s with a 12" pup between them and wye and 1/8 bend instead of a cby, easier on the flow that way.

I will not use a pvc male adapter, I cut a sch 80 nipple in half and use it and a coupling, they don't shear off. This is especially important in underground situations.

I use only ball valves, no gates.

I use pvc primer on *every* joint.

When hanging abs on a post an beam, I crown the pipe with the belly up ( straight pipe is a happy pipe ) and use an extra hanger every third one running off at a 45 as a cross brace on the longer runs, also use flat blocks drilled with a coupling sitting on top as extra support at each fixture termination.

When running cast in the ditch, I use a string line between a couple stakes to sight down the pipe with to keep things straight.

Lettering is *always* up or out.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

U&I Plumber said:


> Lettering is *always* up or out.


Interesting that how I was taught


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

U&I Plumber said:


> Lettering is *always* up or out.


I'm the only one at our shop who does that. It looks funny when I do half of something with the letters out and someone else does the other half and puts them any which way. You don't realize how much better it looks until you see it side by side.


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

It's old skool stuff for sure, pride in workmanship.

The code book states " In a workmanship like manner " its a shame that part of the code is not enforced, if it was we would have an elite profession again instead of the diluted mess we are dealing with today. Alot of people getting into this trade see only dollar signs, they have no respect for the work, the tools, or the masters that made you earn the knowledge. 

Its funny, after 20 years I still love what I do.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Yup, seems PRIDE has taken a back seat to what is cheap and fast


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

Thats also a large part of why I went back into business for myself, around these parts the big shops that had that pride are going away, they are either dying off ( Literally ) or being put under by morons that did a 4 or 5 year apprenticeship and jumped right into business. These idiots were to busy during their apprenticeships thinking about all the money they was gonna make as business owners, they never learned how to really plumb.

*I will not work for an individual that knows less about my trade than *
*I do.*

*I............must...........step............down..............from.............soapbox*


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

U&I Plumber said:


> *I will not work for an individual that knows less about my trade than *
> *I do.*
> 
> *I............must...........step............down..............from.............soapbox*


Interesting.

There are a lot of things that I can do that my boss can't, because our backgrounds are different, but that does not make me respect him less, as he has done something I utterly failed at, he has a successful business, and I dissolved my business after six months.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

U&I Plumber said:


> Thats also a large part of why I went back into business for myself, around these parts the big shops that had that pride are going away, they are either dying off ( Literally ) or being put under by morons that did a 4 or 5 year apprenticeship and jumped right into business. These idiots were to busy during their apprenticeships thinking about all the money they was gonna make as business owners, they never learned how to really plumb.
> 
> *I will not work for an individual that knows less about my trade than *
> *I do.*
> ...



Oh yea, Like Mr Rooter, etc etc 


You know how many "franchise" owners have no firkin clue 

I agree to many chiefs not enough Indians


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

This question could be argued from several different approaches.

Like this: if code would call for a certain water supply run to be 3/4", are you doing anyone a favor doing it in 1"?

Someone mentioned hangars ( spacing ). What about COST? We are all either in business to make money, or we work for someone who has to answer to a bottom line? At some point, do we have to decide that "enough is enough" ?? To me that can be a different question than doing substandard or unsatisfactory work.

I am not trying to pose the ANSWERS to these questions. Just food for thought.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

If their is a situation where code calls for 3/4 and you know that 3/4 is insufficient then yes you are doing yourself and your customer a favor by installing one inch. It's about doing it right instead of doing the bare minimum.


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

i think the question is to be seasoned enough to know when and where code falls short. if code says 2" on a kitchen line and you go 4" because its gotta be twice as good, you never learned about self scouring drains. if code says i can use aav's im not going to use them even if my competion is cutting my throat by doing it half a$$. i know my customer wont be stuck with the headaches that my competitors are. thats enough to let me sleep sound at night.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

where to start? Well first off our code allows wet venting through 1 1/2" That ain't happening we go 2" min. Code also says we can wet vent fixtures in any order. Again ain't happening. Code says you can put 1 1/2" under slab. Another abomination. Code says you can use AAV's, Not and work for me you can't.


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## Leakinator (Dec 2, 2008)

Vents , Drain sizing and support . I used to think my boss was overboard , but now not so much.


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Interesting.
> 
> There are a lot of things that I can do that my boss can't, because our backgrounds are different, but that does not make me respect him less, as he has done something I utterly failed at, he has a successful business, and I dissolved my business after six months.


I never asked an apprentice to do anything I woulden't do first, that way when they seen me in the mix there was no question when it came to be their time. This also was useful in weeding out the faint of heart.

As boss is someone that has the answers to your questions, if you have no questions for your boss only answers, its time to move on.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

U&I Plumber said:


> As boss is someone that has the answers to your questions, if you have no questions for your boss only answers, its time to move on.


Really?

Using that logic I should never work for anyone, I have yet to work for anyone that can size and design stacks for a high rise, or how to show the architect how to minimize wet columns. I have yet to work for anyone that can crank out an isometric as built drawing for a building engineer on the spot. To me a boss is someone that has used his skills to establish a business, and then has used his business skills to acquire people that can do the things he can't. Where do you want to draw the line between tradesman and businessman?


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

Yes Really, 

you like the comfort of working for someone else and I like the challenge of doing it on my own and answering only to my customers. There is also the matter of logistics, you like the city and I'm a country boy. You can twist it any way you wish to justify your particular situation as can I but your opinion, like mine, is just that and nothing more. 

:boxing: We could do this all day and never gain any ground, other than spin this topic out of control.

Have a nice day.


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

This may go without saying, in all copper systems I run type L copper always even when M is allowed. Except when I run Wirsbo Pex in which all stubouts are L copper.:thumbsup:


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