# Viega press black iron install



## fradycakes (Dec 21, 2012)

Anybody use this or seen some installs of it? Since we saw the ad, it's all we can talk about it. Stories about it? Thoughts on it?


----------



## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

I've never seen or heard of this ever. Tagging this post for my own edification.


----------



## fradycakes (Dec 21, 2012)

We are buying a cap and mip to test it out. Can't wait for a full install


----------



## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

I use the Pro Press nearly every day on copper but I am still not sold on the Mega Press fittings yet. I haven`t used them yet so until I try them out I can`t say much. But I am afraid some dummy would try to diconnect something with out a hold wrench and loosen the Mega Press fittings crimp.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Thought. In 20 years plumbers won't thread solder weld or any thing if the sort it will be snap together systems. I think it's over priced junk and don't care for it a bit !!! But what ever is easiest is best right ?? That's how society sees it !!!


----------



## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

The trend is to go handy hack friendly. I'm not opposed to change, I am opposed to bad change.


----------



## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

I agree that every things is about how is easy is it to install now days. But I can do about 3 jobs with the Pro Press compaired to 1 soildering. These are quoted jobs so the quicker I get done the quicker I can get to the next $ maker. Believe me I like soildering more than the PP but it is all about the all mighty $.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

It's crap for hacks that need to do everything fast so they can go home and roll a fatty :blink:


----------



## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

Does this looked hacked up I don`t think so and I did it in about a 3rd of the time that it would have taking to soilder it all.


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

fradycakes said:


> Anybody use this or seen some installs of it? Since we saw the ad, it's all we can talk about it. Stories about it? Thoughts on it?


All the chit that is being thrust upon the trade ... How about it West Coasters. This stuff is allowed in a earthquake zone?


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Tim`s Plumbing said:


> Does this looked hacked up I don`t think so and I did it in about a 3rd of the time that it would have taking to soilder it all.


Wow, a third of the time. Leaves enough time for two fatty's :laughing:

Sorry but I can't see what the rush is. Are you really that busy? And I know what those fittings cost and I know that you didn't save enough time to balance that cost out. It's a toy. Something new that's easy and doesn't require anymore skill than the average 13 year old kid has. Is that really where you want to steer the trade? If it really cut your time by a third then your fitting and soldering skills need improvement but why bother right? You can just squeeze them together. IMO it's crap. I own two pro press tools. They have been sitting on a shelf collecting dust for over a year now. None of the 13 plumbers that work for me will use them and that's fine with me. 

Now lets all get out there and slap some Studor vents in and call it a day :laughing:


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Tim`s Plumbing said:


> Does this looked hacked up I don`t think so and I did it in about a 3rd of the time that it would have taking to soilder it all.



The picture is a bit fuzzy. :laughing:

I laugh at how resistant to change so many plumbers are.


----------



## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

They thought the world was gonna end when they stopped banging lead into cast iron hubs.
















Now lets hear about how you still use lead in Chicago.:laughing:


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Wow, a third of the time. Leaves enough time for two fatty's :laughing:
> 
> Sorry but I can't see what the rush is. Are you really that busy? And I know what those fittings cost and I know that you didn't save enough time to balance that cost out. It's a toy. Something new that's easy and doesn't require anymore skill than the average 13 year old kid has. Is that really where you want to steer the trade? If it really cut your time by a third then your fitting and soldering skills need improvement but why bother right? You can just squeeze them together. IMO it's crap. I own two pro press tools. They have been sitting on a shelf collecting dust for over a year now. None of the 13 plumbers that work for me will use them and that's fine with me.
> 
> Now lets all get out there and slap some Studor vents in and call it a day :laughing:


Want to sell one then?


----------



## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

Hold up, I thought this was about the Viega product.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Wow, a third of the time. Leaves enough time for two fatty's :laughing:
> 
> Sorry but I can't see what the rush is. Are you really that busy? And I know what those fittings cost and I know that you didn't save enough time to balance that cost out. It's a toy. Something new that's easy and doesn't require anymore skill than the average 13 year old kid has. Is that really where you want to steer the trade? If it really cut your time by a third then your fitting and soldering skills need improvement but why bother right? You can just squeeze them together. IMO it's crap. I own two pro press tools. They have been sitting on a shelf collecting dust for over a year now. None of the 13 plumbers that work for me will use them and that's fine with me.
> 
> Now lets all get out there and slap some Studor vents in and call it a day :laughing:


I do agree on some level though. We can all agree that at any one time, there is only a certain amount of work. This amount varies with your area as does your companies percentage of the total work. We also agree that most larger work receives bids, limiting the upper amount someone is willing to pay for a certain task. It is also common fact that pro press fittings are a substantial amount higher than regular ones. 

In an ideal world, we would all be getting maximum dollars for jobs. Wouldn't those dollars be better spent on labor, than materials. You're getting jobs done quicker, but spending more on materials. Why line a manufacturers pockets? If you're too busy to handle your work volume, wouldn't it be better long term to hire another guy instead of spending more on a system to allow you to get work done quicker? 

The bottom line is the money is close to the same amount. I would rather stick it in my pocket instead of viegas.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I'm pragmatic about things. We tried the tools for a few months on different jobs and when I ran the numbers and the return on the dollar isn't there. Realistically, it's a repair tool for the most part. Handy for a quick leak or maybe a line you can't make the leak stop. It's expensive, the fittings are three to ten times more than copper fittings, the tool needs to be maintained, chargd and kept reasonably warm and the fittings can't bang around in the truck either. In short, it's a lot of money for something that can be done without it. Refer to the ridgid forum and a little fracas I had there awhile back concerning a leak repair that it was claimed absolutely could not be done without pro press. I and a half dozen real plumbers from here proved otherwise.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I'm pragmatic about things. We tried the tools for a few months on different jobs and when I ran the numbers and the return on the dollar isn't there. Realistically, it's a repair tool for the most part. Handy for a quick leak or maybe a line you can't make the leak stop. It's expensive, the fittings are three to ten times more than copper fittings, the tool needs to be maintained, chargd and kept reasonably warm and the fittings can't bang around in the truck either. In short, it's a lot of money for something that can be done without it. Refer to the ridgid forum and a little fracas I had there awhile back concerning a leak repair that it was claimed absolutely could not be done without pro press. I and a half dozen real plumbers from here proved otherwise.


I agree it's really handy for leaks that won't stop but, I have a jet sweat kit in my truck. Up to 2" I'm covered. I was just kidding about buying one btw. I also ran the numbers and I would rather charge for the labor instead of charge for materials. If I ran into a commercial shut down where I could really use it, the wholesale house rents them for 100 bucks a day. Even today I was replacing a bunch of copper where pro press would have came in handy but I got it done without it. And instead of paying big dollars for press fittings I put those in my pocket. 

The way I figure it if I took all the situations where a propress is a must or at least real handy a year, and multiplied them by 100 if it didn't equal the price of the machine it wasn't worth it. I came up with 1 time last year. I rented the press gun and it was no big deal. At that rate it would take 32 years to pay the gun off, not worth it. Same reason I don't have a sewer camera. Any situation where you have a constant leak and its slow enough for a press job, it's slow enough for a jet sweat.

The only situations where press technology is essential are in time critical situations or places where flame isn't allowed. These never happen is residential. One customer without water pales in comparison to a hospital without water or a factory where no water means lost production and thousands of dollars lost revenue. Unless your doing those you can, and IMO should use sweat.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> I do agree on some level though. We can all agree that at any one time, there is only a certain amount of work. This amount varies with your area as does your companies percentage of the total work. We also agree that most larger work receives bids, limiting the upper amount someone is willing to pay for a certain task. It is also common fact that pro press fittings are a substantial amount higher than regular ones.
> 
> In an ideal world, we would all be getting maximum dollars for jobs. Wouldn't those dollars be better spent on labor, than materials. You're getting jobs done quicker, but spending more on materials. Why line a manufacturers pockets? If you're too busy to handle your work volume, wouldn't it be better long term to hire another guy instead of spending more on a system to allow you to get work done quicker?
> 
> The bottom line is the money is close to the same amount. I would rather stick it in my pocket instead of viegas.


Hell yes. I couldn't say it better myself. Why give all the money to the manufacture. ?? For repairs p press is great. But for a large commercial building I doubt you could work that fast to offset the price of a few thousands fittings. Your labor 

cost would have to be sky hi Back on topic. Press for water ok but for gas ?? It will be a sad day when they plumb gas in press fittings


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Only thing I see this crap for is maybe a repair but complete job your pipe wrenches broke pp on copper I've done complete jobs with pp copper love it but I prefer brazing solider


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Rcplumber said:


> Only thing I see this crap for is maybe a repair but complete job your pipe wrenches broke pp on copper I've done complete jobs with pp copper love it but I prefer brazing solider


Ps spend money on material to save on labor 20 dollar parts r cheaper then 20 hr employee and work men's comp ect ect the best thing is to find a happy medium if that's able to find


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

These systems are really for repair or small job .. There is no way you can be competitive doing a big job with this unless it was speced


----------



## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I'm pragmatic about things. We tried the tools for a few months on different jobs and when I ran the numbers and the return on the dollar isn't there. Realistically, it's a repair tool for the most part. Handy for a quick leak or maybe a line you can't make the leak stop. It's expensive, the fittings are three to ten times more than copper fittings, the tool needs to be maintained, chargd and kept reasonably warm and the fittings can't bang around in the truck either. In short, it's a lot of money for something that can be done without it. Refer to the ridgid forum and a little fracas I had there awhile back concerning a leak repair that it was claimed absolutely could not be done without pro press. I and a half dozen real plumbers from here proved otherwise.



I`m not sure where you were buying your fittings but I pay about 20% more for Pro Press fttings than sweat. Ok soildering buy soilder, flux, sand cloth, fuel for your torch. Every new school , hospital and hotel that has been built in the last few year`s in my area was done in Pro Press fittings. 
I am sure all the old timers where saying that PVC & ABS was for hacks 30 years ago as well but we must change with the times. The same goes with tankless water heaters many plumbers can`t stand them because they don`t like changeand don`t know how to size them or install them properly.


----------



## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

My supplier is trying to talk me into using it. But I have my doubts about PP gas pipe


----------



## TC27 (Mar 10, 2012)

We did a job a few months ago using FastLock fittings. 1 1/2" black iron air lines for compressed air. Installed roughly 2500' of 1 1/2" and maybe 500' of 3/4" drops. Not a single leak. Save alot of time vs threading and screwing everything.

The 'propress o-ring' was more like a think tailpiece rubber washer. Very tight, used soapy water in a spray bottle to lubricate the pipe ends and the hub of the fitting.

Only thing I disliked was the fact it had two tits inside the fitting hub that were at 3 and 9 o'clock. Made the fittings pull alot. Took a guy holding it square and another pressing to accomplish the joint. We informed the manufactures rep of this and recommended a third tit to hold the fitting true.


----------



## TC27 (Mar 10, 2012)

http://www.cimberiovalve.com/documents/fastlock.html


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

TC27 said:


> http://www.cimberiovalve.com/documents/fastlock.html


I have never seen you around before ... Did you do an intro because it's late and I am a bit lazy to look if you did


----------



## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Pro press has its place in our world. But i dont think it has a place when it comes to gas. It dont matter to me if they said it would hold up to a nuclear bomb. I dont play games with gas. Its very unforgiven when it decides to go boom.


----------



## TC27 (Mar 10, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> I have never seen you around before ... Did you do an intro because it's late and I am a bit lazy to look if you did


I was told it was weak and generic, but I did post an intro.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

TC27 said:


> I was told it was weak and generic, but I did post an intro.


I never seen it .. Maybe give us a tad more info on what you do or know ... More towards the know part ...


----------



## TC27 (Mar 10, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> I never seen it .. Maybe give us a tad more info on what you do or know ... More towards the know part ...


Commercial, both new and remodel.. don't know enough, but I learn something new a few days a week.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

TC27 said:


> Commercial, both new and remodel.. don't know enough, but I learn something new a few days a week.


LOL .. Not here but in your intro thread


----------



## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

Are these in the gas code book yet.


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Haven't seen it yet in the international fuel gas code book well haven't real looked for it


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Rcplumber said:


> Haven't seen it yet in the international fuel gas code book well haven't real looked for it


Has it been approved fittings ?


----------



## Boundry (Jul 14, 2012)

Im told by the viega rep for my area it will be launching in canada in april with full csa approval, i myself like it.


----------



## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Rcplumber said:


> Has it been approved fittings ?


They did get there approvals. May be in the 2012. For sure the next one. Oklahoma is not adopting 2012. So I'll have to see in the '15.


----------



## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

I'll cut and thread it's better


----------



## karr (Dec 8, 2008)

I use Viega, black iron with zink use only for heating sistem, for this its wery good system.
Inox pipe and fitting use for water.


----------



## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

Propress helps me see my family sooner. When I did service and ran into issues, its the difference of a 8 hr days or 14 hr day. My family is all that matters and any product that can get me home quicker is all I want. 

Our company is always using new products and changing. From quick vic, propress, different hangers etc. You need to change to survive. Remember some people think fishfinders are cheating but those who don't use em, get only some fish, while those who do use em, get the rest. 

As for the black press, I don't overly see the quickness vs threading. Your already cutting the pipe with the machine and reaming it, 30 more seconds to thread it and maybe a min. to install it maybe a fraction of that. Plus if your doing long runs of screwed and couple (if you don't cut the ends off) than your making more work for yourself. For the bigger pipe its normally vic'd which still takes little time. I could see if being quicker in hard to reach spots or maybe like 1" to 2" pipe thats about it. For copper your saving on consumables, for black iron your consumables are minimal, oil, dope, t tape. Im going on about heating, for fuel, no thanks. Threaded or welded please.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

They are approved for gas but that just means a wad of money was passed to someone 

You do have to change with the times but you don't have to buy into every crapassed thing that gets shoved on the market. With copper sales and installations hitting rock bottom I can only imagine pro press following it too. I've said it before but I have 13 plumbers working. Don't use pro press, pex, or studor vents...ever and the business grows every year so you don't have to go down the same road as everyone else.


----------



## plumbing ninja (Jan 15, 2012)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> All the chit that is being thrust upon the trade ... How about it West Coasters. This stuff is allowed in a earthquake zone?


The stainless version is used in Japan because it more than proven itself there. It is known by a japanese brand made under licence. The same result has been seen in Christchurch New Zealand too after the quakes! The Chch council n consultants are now using it on bridges and tunnels! We've had UK engineers immigrate here n they swear by the stuff (stainless) too


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

What is the largest expense item for every plumbing company in the United States? LABOR.

The bigger the project, the bigger the labor savings if you are using press technology. The higher the compensation package, the more that is saved by using press tools. The math is not hard.

Once a budget is established for a project (large or small), subtract the time saved and add the extra cost of materials. Is the profit higher or lower.

When I was an apprentice, it was cheaper to put a few guys on a ditch than to rent a trencher. At todays labor rates, that would be foolish. The same can be said for the affordability to have a mini-excavator on a job as opposed to hand digging a sewer in tight quarters.

Sow that wages, WC, healthcare, and other employment related expenses are through the roof, the marketplace looks for ways to curtail it. So the market says to the plumber fine, you want a wage/benefit package that is in the $40 range instead of $20? Okay, but now you have to produce twice as much work. Hence, press technology.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

It doesn't work that way though. Pro press labor savings are grossly over stated. It is faster but not that much and as been said before you would have to be using it for big jobs or spec'd jobs and you'd have to do it often to have I make a savings. Maybe for large diameter stuff but for inch and below I can't justify the cost and believe me, I have tried.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

As nhmaster said, the time savings aren't that great. When you take into account how difficult it is to get larger fittings to press straight the time is comparable. We used to fit the pipes together then tie wire each one onto hangers then go back and press them. In commercial, you'll have a B tank or even A tank. You can solder pretty quick with that.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

So why does it get spec'd? My gut tells me it is not because the bottom line is the same or higher.

Our experience with ProPress has been favorable. For instance, a live leak repair on a 3/4" copper line that needs a valve cut in on a large system that requires shutting down the water. It takes a lot more time to do the job and there is a major PIA factor for the customer for soldering. For a live line repair I charge the same as I wood for the soldered option except I'm done in a matter of minutes and headed to the next call.

It it certainly not for everything but also certainly has its place.

For steel installs I am still firmly standing by cutting and threading. However, I would press steel before I would ever install gas pex.

At least it would eliminate the debate over tape vs. dope vs. tape w/dope. :laughing:


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Tape with dope !!! Or Teflon dope.


----------



## Ishmael (Dec 9, 2009)

When I'm in a hurry, I use counterstrike CSST and pre-cut/threaded nipples on gas piping. I can't imagine trusting compressed rubber o-rings for gas. I'll admit I think much of the skill and "art" in the trade is waning, and so I still tend to run mostly copper water pipes. But if time and/or money are tight, I'll use the pro-PEX system. I think anything that relies on rubber rings to make the seal is doomed to failure long before sweated copper and/or pro-PEX connections for water; or threaded black iron and/or CSST connections for gas. The fact that the rubber rings may outlive ME before the house finally explodes and kills all occupants is no consolation.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> So why does it get spec'd? My gut tells me it is not because the bottom line is the same or higher.
> 
> Our experience with ProPress has been favorable. For instance, a live leak repair on a 3/4" copper line that needs a valve cut in on a large system that requires shutting down the water. It takes a lot more time to do the job and there is a major PIA factor for the customer for soldering. For a live line repair I charge the same as I wood for the soldered option except I'm done in a matter of minutes and headed to the next call.
> 
> ...


On a live line, how do you stop the water flow? If you freeze it, draining it down between the frozen spots takes little to no time. Soldering it takes a min or two longer, no more. Shutting down the entire system, and just pressing it with water still going is an option but, what about freezing it? You have to drain some of it down to press it, and that time could be spend freezing it instead. 

It takes 30 min give or take to freeze 3/4" on a large system as you've stated, I'm assuming commercial, it will take that long at least to drain it down enough to press it. On residential, who cares if the water is off for an hour, or a couple min? Yes, the customer does but it's much harder to justify a price to a customer for 10 min of work than it is for an hour. 

Most of the time it isn't spec'ed on larger jobs, just an approved option. The exceptions of course being hospitals and industrial buildings where they would like to avoid open flame. I think the reason it's so widely used is operator error, not time savings. It doesn't save much time vs a solder joint that doesn't leak, it saves a ton vs one that does. All that means is people need to learn to solder... We ran DWV copper for 2" and smaller. I could do it close to as fast as someone with a press gun could do pressure (if he cared about making it look straight). 

As I said, there are situations where press technology is a huge feather in your cap. Most situations, even the one you referenced aren't IMO. 

If you want to press it , great, I don't think there is anything wrong with doing it. It is easier. Residentially, I would rather have higher labor dollars instead of equipment costs. I would be interested in what the break down is when you factor machine costs, higher fitting costs vs. the extra labor cost for employee. You need to charge for every machine you use, correct? So all equipment has to be broken down per usage based on cost. This extra fee needs to be added to your bill as an equipment charge. My question is, is this fee to pay for the tool plus the Extra fitting cost more than what it would cost for an employee for the extra time?

For me, being a OMS, it isn't. 100% of the extra labor dollars go in my pocket. Propress would take money out of my pocket even with a small markup machine charge.


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Like many of you, I've made hundreds of threads. But, if I never do another, I won't miss the threading machine (or hand threader). I had the Ridgid and Viega reps in my area put on a demo for local plumbers and inspectors a couple of months ago. Even the hide bound San Francisco inspectors admitted they were impressed. 
It's my feeling that tapered threaded pipe is an archaic gas delivery technology. ProPress may not be the solution, only time will tell. I'm just waiting for a large enough gas job that will substantially absorb the $6K price of an RP330-B Press Tool Kit w/XL-C Rings to take the plunge.


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> So why does it get spec'd? My gut tells me it is not because the bottom line is the same or higher.


Manufacturer's reps wine and dine architects and engineers all the time for the specific purpose of getting them to spec their product on large jobs, the actual cost has nothing to do with it.


----------



## TC27 (Mar 10, 2012)

red_devil said:


> As for the black press, I don't overly see the quickness vs threading. Your already cutting the pipe with the machine and reaming it, 30 more seconds to thread it and maybe a min. to install it maybe a fraction of that. Plus if your doing long runs of screwed and couple (if you don't cut the ends off) than your making more work for yourself. For the bigger pipe its normally vic'd which still takes little time. I could see if being quicker in hard to reach spots or maybe like 1" to 2" pipe thats about it. For copper your saving on consumables, for black iron your consumables are minimal, oil, dope, t tape. Im going on about heating, for fuel, no thanks. Threaded or welded please.


On long runs with unthreaded pipe, it is very quick. Slide pipe through hangers, quick knock down the end with a file, wet fitting and pipe, insert pipe into fitting, and press.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

The reps came to visit us and the first year apprentices asked too many questions that they couldn't or wouldn't answer so they packed up and left. It's a gimmick and a damn expensive one at that.


----------



## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

I guess the bottom line question is:
"Is the seal dependent on an o-ring?"
If so, it shouldn't be trusted for gas service.


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

newyorkcity said:


> I guess the bottom line question is:
> "Is the seal dependent on an o-ring?"
> If so, it shouldn't be trusted for gas service.


Yes it all relies on the oring bust the oring during instillation and that fitting is trashed


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

It will only take one big boom!! And a big law suit and it will be over


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> It will only take one big boom!! And a big law suit and it will be over


Words dog LOL


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Rcplumber said:


> Words dog LOL


Hu??


----------



## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I like the PP more than crimp PEX. For gas I don't do gas tight so no PP fo sure.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Personally I think CSST is a more secure system than propress gas. It's all flared joints, not o rings that make the seal.


----------



## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Well I don't mind csst. I think threading black iron is not fun but ok. I don't mind at all. My son likes to run black iron to. But if I was cutting into a existing system to add a tee for a new appliance or fixing leaks on a meter reset I would use the press. But I'd never run a whole job in press fittings. I don't trust it that much


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

No offense but, either you trust it or you don't. If it is t ok for a whole job, it's no good for one fitting. I thought that way about shark bites and almost got bit in the arse hard last week. I knew better but, if I don't trust a fitting system for a whole job, I don't trust it for one fitting.


----------



## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

The only approved method here to cut in tees and do repairs on gas (up to 2") is with a left-right coupling and nipple.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Plumberman911 said:


> Well I don't mind csst. I think threading black iron is not fun but ok. I don't mind at all. My son likes to run black iron to. But if I was cutting into a existing system to add a tee for a new appliance or fixing leaks on a meter reset I would use the press. But I'd never run a whole job in press fittings. I don't trust it that much


Only takes one leak


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

newyorkcity said:


> The only approved method here to cut in tees and do repairs on gas (up to 2") is with a left-right coupling and nipple.


No unions allowed


----------



## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

*it doesn't matter*



TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> No unions allowed


the same rule applies with left-right fittings on gas if you are union or open shop.:laughing:

BTW: electronic gas sniffers beep on human flatulence.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I was at one of the hotel the other day and the had a leak in the 3/4" return line just in front of the washroom doors in the ceiling

This was the lower of the building ... They asked me to use sharkbites to fix it so it could be done quick ...

I said no way ... That would be 5 minutes of work and a life time of liability ..

So I did it my way ... Cut the pipe out and solder in a new piece


----------



## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> No offense but, either you trust it or you don't. If it is t ok for a whole job, it's no good for one fitting. I thought that way about shark bites and almost got bit in the arse hard last week. I knew better but, if I don't trust a fitting system for a whole job, I don't trust it for one fitting.


Vary true. And looking at it that way. No I don't trust it. 
We can use unions if accessible. Like swing joints are against code if in concealed places. But they don't enforce it


----------



## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> I was at one of the hotel the other day and the had a leak in the 3/4" return line just in front of the washroom doors in the ceiling
> 
> This was the lower of the building ... They asked me to use sharkbites to fix it so it could be done quick ...
> 
> ...


Was it a press joint that was leaking?


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

HSI said:


> Was it a press joint that was leaking?


No ... Copper pipe developed a pin hole


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

newyorkcity said:


> the same rule applies with left-right fittings on gas if you are union or open shop.:laughing:
> 
> BTW: electronic gas sniffers beep on human flatulence.


I'm ment you can't install a union in the pipe ?? If I was to cut in a 2" tee I'd cut out pup ratchet thread the ends in the air or take them down and thread if possible and put a union and nipple on one side of tee and nipple and coupling on the other side This fitting you talk if has backwards / lesft hand threads on one side ??


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Electrolysis would b what u call it to dissimilar material touch and have reaction between too


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

True but I think when it's the rite condition it's galvanic corrosion. Actually protecting the galvanize from the copper. So I'm told


----------



## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

*yes*



TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I'm ment you can't install a union in the pipe ?? If I was to cut in a 2" tee I'd cut out pup ratchet thread the ends in the air or take them down and thread if possible and put a union and nipple on one side of tee and nipple and coupling on the other side This fitting you talk if has backwards / lesft hand threads on one side ??


1) My 1st comment was a lame, lame joke.:jester: Saturday evening catching up on writing invoices in Quickbooks. The fun of owning your own company.
Alternating between one invoice and one PZ new post check. 

2) Yes, a left-right coupling and nipple consists of:
-a black malleable coupling with left hand threads on one side
-a nipple with left hand thread on one side
It takes skill to get it right, especially with the larger sizes.
It also takes some muscle, as you are tightening two joints at once.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

So you don't thread left hand threads you get a nipple for it ?? And the other side of the nipple has rite hand threads on it ??


----------



## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

I dont actually have propress. However if I did, I would you it for copper or gas. Everyone is against it, because its still new to us. Its called the changing of times.
How do you think the old timers felt when iron transitioned to pvc. They said the same thing, dont trust it. Same goes for pex, no hub couplings, sharkbites, poly and so on.
Fact is times change and in alot of cases time means alot to companies. 
How long does it take to solder a 4" joint?
Clean, flux, solder, i would imagine a coupling being 2 joints, at least 20 min. Propress 7 seconds each side.
Some guys that dont want to use the new stuff, do you still pour lead joints, or thread pipe for waste arms? I highly doubt it.


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Yup do true


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Rcplumber said:


> Yup do true


Wrong page


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

You know you can edit ur post ??


----------



## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

*exactly*



TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> So you don't thread left hand threads you get a nipple for it ?? And the other side of the nipple has rite hand threads on it ??


Exactly. You would buy the coupling and nipple as a set.
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/leftright.html

And pipe it like this:


----------



## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I had never even heard of a left right coupling. I could see that being confusing for someone in the future.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Plumbing Zone


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Now why union arnt allowed?? Seen them on gas meter, boiler, water heater etc.. if ya mean un accessible area like behind the wall, etc. Then I see your point.


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Left right nipple u tighten one side gets tighter other loosens pain in the but but would b funny to see service guy hit it that would b YouTube moment


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

They use that all the time to connect radaitors together


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

K that I can see a radiator in a house for heating steam or water radiator


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

newyorkcity said:


> Exactly. You would buy the coupling and nipple as a set.
> http://www.plumbingsupply.com/leftright.html
> 
> And pipe it like this:


A another iso guy. I like it. Thanks !!!


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

dclarke said:


> I had never even heard of a left right coupling. I could see that being confusing for someone in the future.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Plumbing Zone


Hell yea give that to an app and watch the show


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Rcplumber said:


> What r u calling a radiator I'm thinking coil in a air handler


Huh???? I'm talking about those old wall hung cast iron radiators... Clow had some with left hand thread on right side of radaitor.. you use the l/R nipples to put them together.


----------



## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Never heard of left handed threads. Is it regional or am I just not hip on what's in my area either?


----------



## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> A another iso guy. I like it. Thanks ???


That's new to me we don't dill with this down here in oklahome


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumberman911 said:


> Never heard of left handed threads. Is it regional or am I just not hip on what's in my area either?


 Look up in Rigid plumbing tool catalog, you can but left hand thread dies for 300 machine die head.. I have a set for those old left hand thread radaitors.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I got to get some of those just to jack with people. It won't start!! Yes it will just keep tryn!!


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I got to get some of those just to jack with people. It won't start!! Yes it will just keep tryn!!


That'll be a fookin blast! Make sure u video it! Lmao!.... hummmm.. gonna make some nipples soon...


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> That'll be a fookin blast! Make sure u video it! Lmao!.... hummmm.. gonna make some nipples soon...


U should make a few and film it. Il see if I can find one and throw it in the mix one day and see who try's ther luck


----------



## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I got to get some of those just to jack with people. It won't start!! Yes it will just keep tryn!!


That's funny you should. I may too. That would be freaking hellacious


----------



## Radium (Dec 25, 2010)

I've got megapressg up to 1". Awesome tool.


----------



## Turd Chaser (Dec 1, 2011)

We bought the mega press jaws and various fittings. We have several large foundries, factories and rendering facilities that need repairs ASAP at all hours of the night. The tool works great only issue we have is with the crappy design of the sanding tool. We've had better luck just using sand cloth to remove any imperfections in the pipe. We had a sales rep from Viega come into the shop and we bought the jaws 2 hours later. Worth every penny when we can get a customer up and running in a matter of minutes vs taking the pipe back to a fitting or union.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

In a repair I can see its use. But in new const I think it's a waist of money 
And yes the deburring tool sucks


----------



## panther (Oct 27, 2010)

I've seen ads for this stuff recently too. Seems like I would rather learn how to use the stuff. Get the tools for it just to be able to make repairs. And stick to what I use now.


----------



## Turd Chaser (Dec 1, 2011)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> In a repair I can see its use. But in new const I think it's a waist of money
> And yes the deburring tool sucks


Absolutely correct. It's hard to make it look perfectly straight as the pipe is loose in the socket of the fitting prior to being pressed. New const, cut and thread 100%.


----------



## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

The key to pressing joints straight is tie wire. When you're running mains, build trapeze hangers with unistrut or channel strut, tie wire the pipe down on center. When you do press the fitting, kick the fitting slightly the opposite way of the handle of the press gun. The torque pulls the pipe back straight, and the tie wire keeps it on center. We did a high school (over 13,000 fittings) in press. It came out great. Only 2 drips and one catastrophic blowout from a power surge that causes a spike in water pressure from 45psi to well over 150psi. Press is awesome from the standpoint of labor savings and if properly installed, it looks incredible.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Flyout95 said:


> The key to pressing joints straight is tie wire. When you're running mains, build trapeze hangers with unistrut or channel strut, tie wire the pipe down on center. When you do press the fitting, kick the fitting slightly the opposite way of the handle of the press gun. The torque pulls the pipe back straight, and the tie wire keeps it on center. We did a high school (over 13,000 fittings) in press. It came out great. Only 2 drips and one catastrophic blowout from a power surge that causes a spike in water pressure from 45psi to well over 150psi. Press is awesome from the standpoint of labor savings and if properly installed, it looks incredible.


The tie wire trick is one I used many times on bigger jobs. It takes a little longer, but it's worth it on the finished result.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Flyout95 said:


> The key to pressing joints straight is tie wire. When you're running mains, build trapeze hangers with unistrut or channel strut, tie wire the pipe down on center. When you do press the fitting, kick the fitting slightly the opposite way of the handle of the press gun. The torque pulls the pipe back straight, and the tie wire keeps it on center. We did a high school (over 13,000 fittings) in press. It came out great. Only 2 drips and one catastrophic blowout from a power surge that causes a spike in water pressure from 45psi to well over 150psi. Press is awesome from the standpoint of labor savings and if properly installed, it looks incredible.


I have no issue with pressing copper. Witch sounds like what ur talking about. But pressing black pipe ... The fittings are very loose and usually straighten up when pressed. But it takes two guys to really press it rite 

I can thread pipe faster then cleaning it. 
I just did not care for the mega press system. Easy isn't always better


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I have no issue with pressing copper. Witch sounds like what ur talking about. But pressing black pipe ... The fittings are very loose and usually straighten up when pressed. But it takes two guys to really press it rite
> 
> I can thread pipe faster then cleaning it.
> I just did not care for the mega press system. Easy isn't always better


Do you think it would be useful to add a tee in a line or a spot repair?


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> Do you think it would be useful to add a tee in a line or a spot repair?


Yes very much so. But the setup is like 3500 to to 1/2" up to 2". And how often are you gonna use it ? If u do service for big industrial plant I can see the need. But ur average shop around here won't need it. We have 8 plumbers and its been used once in 9 months


----------



## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Press copper but thread 1/2 trough 2 weld everything else the cost and the fumbling around makes it non cost effective.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Yes very much so. But the setup is like 3500 to to 1/2" up to 2". And how often are you gonna use it ? If u do service for big industrial plant I can see the need. But ur average shop around here won't need it. We have 8 plumbers and its been used once in 9 months


Yeah I wouldn't need it. But the company I started with had 150+ field guys between the different trades. For them it would be worth it. That's the only thing I miss about being there, I used all the best tools and coolest stuff.


----------

