# Recirc pump



## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Hi, does anyone know off hand if this re circulation pump has a check valve within it? 
Thanks


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> Hi, does anyone know off hand if this re circulation pump has a check valve within it?
> Thanks


Now why the hell would you put a oversized iron body pump on the re circ line??? Let alone questioning about the check valve??


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Does that mean you don't know if it has a check valve?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> Does that mean you don't know if it has a check valve?


Its YOU I'm worry about.. 1st yr wet behind the ear doesn't know why or what he doing with iron body pump on re circ line..


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Do you criticize or answer questions? Like wtf I asked a question, if you don't know the answer stfu


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Be of use or don't respond plz and ty


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> Do you criticize or answer questions? Like wtf I asked a question, if you don't know the answer stfu


I know the answer... you have to earn it...


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Whatever, please don't bother reading my posts, thanks for helping out a first year apprentice


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Chachi... just a heads up, you're going to get grief here, that's how it works. 

And fyi, if anyone knows about recirc pumps, it's RJ. He's the resident recirc expert.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

Don't put that iron pump on a domestic system!!!

Check the outlet flange for a ifc.. Question why don't you just ask you're journeyman?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumbworker said:


> Don't put that iron pump on a domestic system!!!
> 
> Check the outlet flange for a ifc.. Question why don't you just ask you're journeyman?


Don't put any pump on recirc system if its piped correctly!


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

I got the runaround from him just like I'm getting on here, I'm starting to believe the theory that journey try to keep apprentices from learning so they don't end up taking their jobs


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

It's piped correctly, the person is complaining when the recirc line is on they are getting a fluctuation of hot and cold on the hot line but with the recirc pump off the hot is fine so I told him I'll look into it for him, my thought is that recirc line doesn't have a check valve in it


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> I got the runaround from him just like I'm getting on here, I'm starting to believe the theory that journey try to keep apprentices from learning so they don't end up taking their jobs


Where's the instruction paper comes with the pump?? All the answer to your questions are in there and more...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> It's piped correctly, the person is complaining when the recirc line is on they are getting a fluctuation of hot and cold on the hot line but with the recirc pump off the hot is fine so I told him I'll look into it for him, my thought is that recirc line doesn't have a check valve in it


How do you KNOW its piped correctly??? Properly piped recirc line don't needs pump or check valve...


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

No papers, it's that tough for you to answer a question isn't it?


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)




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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

I think you have the dreaded cold water sandwich. I suggest a small storage tank. You could just blow through the valve to find out from now on and use your folding ruler or else


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Cold water sandwich goes away with an Eternal tankless heater.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Please delete this post.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Plumbworker said:


> Don't put that iron pump on a domestic system!!!
> 
> Check the outlet flange for a ifc.. Question why don't you just ask you're journeyman?


If there isn't a "C" after the F it doesn't have a check valve.

Chachi
My Plumbworker smile and use a UP15-35AFC. Stainless, built in check and 3 speed.
Throw in these and you'll look like a real pro.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Side jobber....


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

There's just an "F" so I'm going to assume there isn't a check valve. Thanks for your answer, I appreciate it and it's good to know there are some plumbers on here that can help with an answer and not a smartass comment without an answer.


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## swidere (Feb 10, 2015)

*chachi*

ARE YOU SERIOUS I HAVE A 10 yr grand daughter that knows the answer sombody take his tools away


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

Why don't you just check the pump? It's not like flow check is hidden?


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

I have my answer, you can kill this thread. Wow a 10 year old who knows about check valves and recirc pumps, buy her some toys dude


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

That's more for a commercial setting however to answer the question you must add your checks to the system


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

This is how one learns


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

titaniumplumbr said:


> That's more for a commercial setting however to answer the question you must add your checks to the system



Thanks for your input, I figured they would need check valves, it's only common sense when hot and cold have the possibility of crossing over. I don't know why rjb or whoever he is would think otherwise


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## luv2plum (May 16, 2012)

No integral flow check in that pump.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

that tankless will clogg up often if you use that iron pump


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

How come? What would you use?


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

You have to get one designed for domestic water


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Don't they do the same function, the company I work for uses them all the time. Maybe because they're more reliable?


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

Domestic recirc pumps are made from brass, bronze or stainless steel. You are not supposed to put cast iron on a domestic (potable) system.


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Oh I know this to be true, I thought that was just external material. I assumed internally it would be non metal


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Btw, thanks for straight up answers and not some moronic comments I've seen on here so far. It's nice to be able to have civil conversation rather than the primal dialog some have spewed on here


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Did you fix it? Tankless may not give enough gpm I e cold water sandwich and circulation issues. Eternal my ash. Only if it's sized accordingly.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

KoleckeINC said:


> Did you fix it? Tankless may not give enough gpm I e cold water sandwich and circulation issues. Eternal my ash. Only if it's sized accordingly.


I'm gonna ask a dumb question,but what exactly is a cold water sandwich???


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

sparky said:


> I'm gonna ask a dumb question,but what exactly is a cold water sandwich???


It's a term used with on demand water heaters.. It's the small amount of water needed to "re-fire" the heater between demands.. 

An example would be running a sink on the hot side (to brush teeth or wash hands) then shutting the water off (in turn shutting the heater down) turning around and starting a shower.. The hot line has hot water in it to the sink so the shower will be hot for a min then a slug of cold before getting full uninterrupted hot water.. That cold slug was a cold water sandwich.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

CTs2p2 said:


> It's a term used with on demand water heaters.. It's the small amount of water needed to "re-fire" the heater between demands..
> 
> An example would be running a sink on the hot side (to brush teeth or wash hands) then shutting the water off (in turn shutting the heater down) turning around and starting a shower.. The hot line has hot water in it to the sink so the shower will be hot for a min then a slug of cold before getting full uninterrupted hot water.. That cold slug was a cold water sandwich.


Thanks for the excellent detailed explanation:thumbsup:


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

CTs2p2 said:


> It's a term used with on demand water heaters.. It's the small amount of water needed to "re-fire" the heater between demands..
> 
> An example would be running a sink on the hot side (to brush teeth or wash hands) then shutting the water off (in turn shutting the heater down) turning around and starting a shower.. The hot line has hot water in it to the sink so the shower will be hot for a min then a slug of cold before getting full uninterrupted hot water.. That cold slug was a cold water sandwich.



Is there an easy fix to this issue? Other than a separate "holding tank? Would it still do the "sandwiching effect with the recirc line running? So many questions, so little time... Thanks in advance


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## Johnny Canuck (Feb 24, 2015)

chachi said:


> I got the runaround from him just like I'm getting on here, I'm starting to believe the theory that journey try to keep apprentices from learning so they don't end up taking their jobs


Their job is to teach you to be a useful Journeyman yourself. Not all jobs come to you gift-wrapped as you've just found out. I'm getting ready to write my Journeymans exam and I've worked under some great guys and I've worked under some idiots but the all taught me something and I appreciated it. They deserve respect for taking you in the first place. 
Sometimes YOU have to find the right answer and earn your place.


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

lol ok


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Plumbus said:


> Please delete this post.



Why would you write "delete this post" and why would you get a thumbs up for saying this? 
Isnt this a forum to express opinions and ask questions? The nerve of some diva plumbers


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Problem solved..... The recirc pump didn't have a check valve in it so I installed a check valve on the hot recirc line (cold line already had a check valve installed) everything is running smoothing, customer is happy, no more sandwich effect. I thought a check valve would be needed as common sense says with the potential crossover of hot and cold water. Thanks for the guys who added valuable input and to the guy who says you don't need check valves maybe it's time for that old dog to learn new tricks
Thanks again!


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

chachi said:


> Problem solved..... The recirc pump didn't have a check valve in it so I installed a check valve on the hot recirc line (cold line already had a check valve installed) everything is running smoothing, customer is happy, no more sandwich effect. I thought a check valve would be needed as common sense says with the potential crossover of hot and cold water. Thanks for the guys who added valuable input and to the guy who says you don't need check valves maybe it's time for that old dog to learn new tricks
> Thanks again!


He is one of the best boiler guys in the nation.... Just saying.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> Problem solved..... The recirc pump didn't have a check valve in it so I installed a check valve on the hot recirc line (cold line already had a check valve installed) everything is running smoothing, customer is happy, no more sandwich effect. I thought a check valve would be needed as common sense says with the potential crossover of hot and cold water. Thanks for the guys who added valuable input and to the guy who says you don't need check valves maybe it's time for that old dog to learn new tricks
> Thanks again!


So you want a gold star stapled on ur forehead??


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> Problem solved..... The recirc pump didn't have a check valve in it so I installed a check valve on the hot recirc line (cold line already had a check valve installed) everything is running smoothing, customer is happy, no more sandwich effect. I thought a check valve would be needed as common sense says with the potential crossover of hot and cold water. Thanks for the guys who added valuable input and to the guy who says you don't need check valves maybe it's time for that old dog to learn new tricks
> Thanks again!


If ya need all those check valves to make it works.. its not piped in correctly as stated before


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

I understand the gravity feed but I'm still dying to know about not having to use check valves


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

tim666 said:


> I understand the gravity feed but I'm still dying to know about not having to use check valves


Its all about the Desitiy/weight of the water temps..


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

You mean Density smart guy, if that's the case it's all the more reason to protect cross over and mixing hot and cold water by putting check valves.... That's plumbing 101 and I thought I was the only apprentice here.


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

rjbphd said:


> So you want a gold star stapled on ur forehead??



Listen loser, someone asked to tell them how it went, so I did. Why are you even reading this post Mr Boilmaker? Start putting in check valves you cheapskate and stop ripping off your customers!


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

rjbphd said:


> If ya need all those check valves to make it works.. its not piped in correctly as stated before



You're not too bright, if there is a fluctuation in either the hot or cold line there is a possibility of water crossing over, this is the first thing you learn in plumbing . I don't know what company you're with but they should be embarrassed with remarks like this


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> You mean Density smart guy, if that's the case it's all the more reason to protect cross over and mixing hot and cold water by putting check valves.... That's plumbing 101 and I thought I was the only apprentice here.


You are the only one and will be the only one here..


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

Looks like that makes two of us


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

chachi said:


> Looks like that makes two of us


Nope.. just you.. only you..


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Just once.. Once in my lifetime I want to see someone get their ass kicked for talking **** online.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

It was a simple question that his journeyman was giving him the run around. So he turned to the forum to find the answer and everyone gave him a hard time here


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## FRMA2Z (Mar 30, 2014)

The apprentice humbled himself and went to this forum for an answer.This is why I stay in the shadows. He's not asking who the best plumber in the world is although by some of the answers I read I can clearly seethe hasn't found a true Master Plumber to give him a direct answer. The answer is no there is no check built into that pump there would be a symbol of a check on in if there was.
Master plumbers are not only defined as the best in our trade . We are also the Teacher of our trade .. Every master tells an apprentice if you don't know ask. He did just that only to have his balls busted by plumbers trying to show the apprentice how stupid he is.
You did the right thing young man . But after I read this attack master plumbers my ass. The measure of a master is to be the best teacher and stand back not to look at your work but to stand back and look at the plumber you've trained to do the work with pride and perfection. Then and only then are you deserving in my eyes as a Master Plumber!!
Rant over


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

FRMA2Z said:


> ...The measure of a master is...not to look at your work, but to stand back and look at the plumber you've trained to do the work with pride and perfection.


Quote worth re-quoting. ^^^

Pure wisdom.


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

That is the best thing I've seen written in this forum. I have been wondering why a simple question had to be dragged out, ridiculed and told to ask my journeyman who's a smartass like some people on here. I thought the purpose of this forum was to talk shop, why do people read posts and contribute nothing but says something like his "10 year old granddaughter knows the answer" like why bother? 
Anyways, great comment FRMA2Z and it's appreciated thanks!


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

plbgbiz said:


> Quote worth re-quoting. ^^^
> 
> Pure wisdom.



Maybe YOU should practice what the good man wrote, you were one of the people who had moronic comments


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

chachi said:


> Maybe YOU should practice what the good man wrote, you were one of the people who had moronic comments


Oh really? And what is this "moronic" comment you speak of?


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

plbgbiz said:


> Oh really? And what is this "moronic" comment you speak of?



You pick which of these comments (all yours) is not moronic and which is useful to me and this post

"Its YOU I'm worry about.. 1st yr wet behind the ear doesn't know why or what he doing with iron body pump on re circ line.."

"I know the answer... you have to earn it..."

"Where's the instruction paper comes with the pump?? All the answer to your questions are in there and more..."

"So you want a gold star stapled on ur forehead??"

"You are the only one and will be the only one here.."

I can only thank my lucky stars I do not have to apprentice under the likes of someone like you


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

chachi said:


> You pick which of these comments (all yours) is not moronic and which is useful to me and this post
> 
> "Its YOU I'm worry about.. 1st yr wet behind the ear doesn't know why or what he doing with iron body pump on re circ line.."
> 
> ...


Nice job dumbazz.

Next time you're going to blame someone for something, pull your head out and read where the quotes come from. I did not make those posts.

And you have the nerve to call me a moron? By a mirror dumbazz.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

chachi said:


> You pick which of these comments (all yours) is not moronic and which is useful to me and this post "Its YOU I'm worry about.. 1st yr wet behind the ear doesn't know why or what he doing with iron body pump on re circ line.." "I know the answer... you have to earn it..." "Where's the instruction paper comes with the pump?? All the answer to your questions are in there and more..." "So you want a gold star stapled on ur forehead??" "You are the only one and will be the only one here.." I can only thank my lucky stars I do not have to apprentice under the likes of someone like you


apparently as a first year you have been beaten up a little but learn to listen. The information was valid you just took it wrong. There is no sense in piping off in that way. Remember a saying I teach all my guys it is simply ( less is more) listen a lot and only speak when needed. This does two things one nobody knows what your planing and two they will listen when you do speak because you have had time to plan while everybody else was trying to impress someone. Now forget about the pump and move on.


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## chachi (Feb 10, 2015)

plbgbiz said:


> Nice job dumbazz.
> 
> Next time you're going to blame someone for something, pull your head out and read where the quotes come from. I did not make those posts.
> 
> And you have the nerve to call me a moron? By a mirror dumbazz.



I must apologize, I have had so many moronic remarks from so many morons on here. You're right, I have no hard feelings towards you. My comment was meant for the jackoff RJBPHD


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

:stupid:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

chachi said:


> I must apologize, I have had so many moronic remarks from so many morons on here. You're right, I have no hard feelings towards you. My comment was meant for the jackoff RJBPHD


Fair enough.

Now I'm gettin' outta this ******* thread before somebody expects me to know something.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Now I'm gettin' outta this ******* thread before somebody expects me to know something.


Somebody needs to inform the auto-filter that "wet head" is an industry term. Geez.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

chachi said:


> I must apologize, I have had so many moronic remarks from so many morons on here. You're right, I have no hard feelings towards you. My comment was meant for the jackoff RJBPHD


i thought you were listening until the last sentence. Lol it's going to be a long apprenticeship.


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## Leafzfan (Dec 1, 2014)

You need check valves Chachi, don't listen or care what RJ has to say. Some use common sense and some use gravity


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Leafzfan said:


> You need check valves Chachi, don't listen or care what RJ has to say. Some use common sense and some use gravity


 Gravity and common sense is all you need...


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