# American water heater johnson city tenn.



## johnh

One of the guys put in a american power vent water water heater today. Dead out of the box, needs a new gas control. The supply house is 50 miles away. Put a atmospheric american water heater a while back, bad gas valve out of the box.. Put a lp gas atmospheric water heater a few years back, bad gas valve out of the box. I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Put a titan elecrtic water heater in a few months back, started leaking. American waterheater has cost me lost time for the last time. I'm concerned the other bands are just as junky. Americn waterheater is a POS.


----------



## dhal22

Isn't that heater from the AO Smith/State assembly line? If so, same heater, different paint and decals.


----------



## johnh

Not sure on that. Have been by the plant in johnson city many times, even knew a couple people that worked there years ago. Thinking about trying rheem.


When I first stated going to johnson city, the plant was called morflo.


----------



## Nealfromjpt

i refuse to install american water heaters , or any associated brands .

i have been installing rheem/ruud i dont have as many problems , still have some but not nearly as many..


----------



## Redwood

American Water Heaters is owned by AO Smith...:whistling2:

If you haven't figured out the pattern yet why don't you try a State, Reliance, US Craftmaster, Lochinvar, John Wood, GSW or, an AO Smith and expect different results...:blink:


----------



## johnh

Thought about bradford white but have heard they use the same gas control as american water heater. So I'm back to rheem.


----------



## dhal22

Where do you guys find these problem heaters? We must not install enough to find the occasional problem. Put em in and go to the next one. That Rheem a few years ago was our last out of the box issue.


----------



## Redwood

dhal22 said:


> Where do you guys find these problem heaters? We must not install enough to find the occasional problem. Put em in and go to the next one. That Rheem a few years ago was our last out of the box issue.


I'm not sure where they are either...:laughing:
Maybe it's the requisite pre-lighting thump with the channellocks that does it...

I had some problems with the AO Smith style water heaters and a clogged FVIR Flame Arrestor, but I was done with those brands by 2006...

I hate callbacks, so I eliminate the cause...:whistling2:

Been with Bradford White ever since....


----------



## johnh

Not counting on demand units we probably install less than 20 water heaters a year. It's not a big market for us.

If I go with bradford white, what channellocks do use?


----------



## Redwood

johnh said:


> If I go with bradford white, what channellocks do use?


:laughing: You'll have to get MasterMark to give you that information...:laughing:


----------



## plumbdrum

Redwood said:


> :laughing: You'll have to get MasterMark to give you that information...:laughing:


And while he's at it, ask how to repair a rotting copper drain line.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## ChrisConnor

I'm not sure about gas American water heaters, but the electric models aren't the same as aosmith and state electric models.


----------



## Redwood

The FVIR Design is the same across the board for AO Smith Brands...
The Hoover Floor Sweeper Inlet is on the bottom...

Older Lochinvar units were okay before they were bought out by AO Smith, they were made by Bradford White and had the Bradford White FVIR Design. Lochinvar now uses the AO Smith Design...


----------



## Nealfromjpt

installing my first Bradford White gas wtr htr tomorrow.


----------



## Master Mark

johnh said:


> Not counting on demand units we probably install less than 20 water heaters a year. It's not a big market for us.
> 
> If I go with bradford white, what channellocks do use?




a nice size pair of well pump pliers works best....
if it refuses to light after about 5 minutes, you lightly smack the control with the insulated part of the handle. a few times .... it works for me every time.. 

if it still dont work , smack it harder:thumbup:


----------



## rjbphd

Nealfromjpt said:


> installing my first Bradford White gas wtr htr tomorrow.


Ya gonna be doomed from on..


----------



## paultheplumber1

I've bee installing American for a while now. mostly electric. I probably do around ten or so LP a year. Have not had any major trouble with any of them. The one thing I have noticed is on 3 different occasions the actual elements have rotted through right between the screws. Never saw that happen before with any other brand.


----------



## Redwood

paultheplumber1 said:


> I've bee installing American for a while now. mostly electric. I probably do around ten or so LP a year. Have not had any major trouble with any of them. The one thing I have noticed is on 3 different occasions the actual elements have rotted through right between the screws. Never saw that happen before with any other brand.


As far as electric water heaters the differences are very minor so brands mean very little...

The big deal is in gas with the reliability of the FVIR System and what you have to do to reset the TCO after cleaning the flame arrestor...

For electric water heaters the concerns would be things like tank corrosion, element sheath metals (Zinc Plated Steel or, Inconel), and wattage density...


----------



## sparky

johnh said:


> Thought about bradford white but have heard they use the same gas control as american water heater. So I'm back to rheem.


all you got to do to that gas valve is rare back and clock it with a pair of 440 channellocks,no worrries:whistling2::whistling2:


----------



## sparky

johnh said:


> Not counting on demand units we probably install less than 20 water heaters a year. It's not a big market for us.
> 
> If I go with bradford white, what channellocks do use?


mastermark reccommends the 440 channies for maximum thumpage,really gets the ions to moving in the right direction:laughing::laughing::laughing::whistling2::whistling2:


----------



## johnh

I wish I had known the channellock trick, would have saved some time. It sure was a three ring circus getting a new valve and it sucked up some time too.


----------



## Redwood

sparky said:


> mastermark reccommends the 440 channies for maximum thumpage,really gets the ions to moving in the right direction:laughing::laughing::laughing::whistling2::whistling2:


I thought it was the Big Azz 480's he recommended...:laughing:


----------



## sparky

Redwood said:


> I thought it was the Big Azz 480's he recommended...:laughing:


Oh yea,my bad,it was the monster 480s come to think of it!!!gets them ions moving even faster!!!:laughing: I'm sure chris Connor would agree


----------



## dhal22

I see this thread and another occasionally but haven't paid much attention. Is the discussion pertaining to the originally exclusive to Bradford White (Honeywell) valve that is now almost universal?


----------



## Master Mark

dhal22 said:


> I see this thread and another occasionally but haven't paid much attention. Is the discussion pertaining to the originally exclusive to Bradford White (Honeywell) valve that is now almost universal?


 

Yes, the ICON honey well was very problematic about 4 years ago when it first came out, I could spend 10 minutes trying to get the damn things to light with the customer standing right over my shoulder...
I have noticed that they must have tweaked that control because they dont seem to take as long as they used to now on warranty change outs

they seem to need an "channel lock adjustment " on occasion to get them to behave properly, its like its their time of the month or something


posted here is the "preferred pair of well pump pliers" notice the nice yellow grips....they 
give a good impact when thrashing these things
not too hard, not too soft....

this was an a.o.smith heater that wanted to tangle with me about a year ago, and the pliers won


----------



## sparky

:laughing:


Master Mark said:


> Yes, the ICON honey well was very problematic about 4 years ago when it first came out, I could spend 10 minutes trying to get the damn things to light with the customer standing right over my shoulder...
> I have noticed that they must have tweaked that control because they dont seem to take as long as they used to now on warranty change outs
> 
> they seem to need an "channel lock adjustment " on occasion to get them to behave properly, its like its their time of the month or something
> 
> 
> posted here is the "preferred pair of well pump pliers" notice the nice yellow grips....they
> give a good impact when thrashing these things
> not too hard, not too soft....
> 
> this was an a.o.smith heater that wanted to tangle with me about a year ago, and the pliers won


:laughing::no::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## dhal22

Until we lost our easy access to BW, that's all we would install. And we never had any issues withe the gas valve. Was that a regular issue on your end?


----------



## Master Mark

dhal22 said:


> Until we lost our easy access to BW, that's all we would install. And we never had any issues withe the gas valve. Was that a regular issue on your end?



when they first came out with the Icon, we had a rash of them that simply would take up to forever to get them to light.... one out of 4 . On a few we changed out the control......some we had to please the customer and put in another heater. 
TONS of Patience is necessary with the ICON but 
it just does not look good in front of the customer....


After a number of them frustrating me, 
I made the change over to Rheem which was a very good decision.... 

We are still dealing with Bradfords due to the fact that we installed a ton of them up till 2010 and a lot of them under 6 years old are now leaking under warranty... 

I have noted that the Icon valve has been improved... it seems very friendly now

I am glad we switched to rheem cause I cant deal with 
leaking heaters under 5 years old....Rheem seem to last forever 


.


----------



## Redwood

dhal22 said:


> Until we lost our easy access to BW, that's all we would install. And we never had any issues withe the gas valve. Was that a regular issue on your end?


I'm not sure what his issue was...
My experience was like yours...
No Issues!


----------



## sparky

Master Mark said:


> when they first came out with the Icon, we had a rash of them that simply would take up to forever to get them to light.... one out of 4 . On a few we changed out the control......some we had to please the customer and put in another heater.
> TONS of Patience is necessary with the ICON but
> it just does not look good in front of the customer....
> 
> 
> After a number of them frustrating me,
> I made the change over to Rheem which was a very good decision....
> 
> We are still dealing with Bradfords due to the fact that we installed a ton of them up till 2010 and a lot of them under 6 years old are now leaking under warranty...
> 
> I have noted that the Icon valve has been improved... it seems very friendly now
> 
> I am glad we switched to rheem cause I cant deal with
> leaking heaters under 5 years old....Rheem seem to last forever
> 
> 
> .


Mark was just wondering,on these heaters that are leaking under 5yrs old,is or has there been a working expansion tank on the heater????also what about the pressure regulator??was it working also???just trying to figure out why these heaters are leaking under 5yrs of age!!


----------



## Plumber

Last month we had 3 dented BW water heaters and 1 that had a cracked valve cover. BW and the supplier made everything okay, but I really don't need the drama.


----------



## MACPLUMB777

Redwood said:


> The FVIR Design is the same across the board for AO Smith Brands...
> The Hoover Floor Sweeper Inlet is on the bottom...
> 
> Older Lochinvar units were okay before they were bought out by AO Smith, they were made by Bradford White and had the Bradford White FVIR Design. Lochinvar now uses the AO Smith Design...


The AO SMITH, STATE Brands AND LOCHINVAR Tanks are made in Ashland City,Tenn. 
and The American brands are made in Johnson City, Tenn.
The Lochinvar boilers are still made in Lebanon, Tenn


----------



## dhal22

Redwood said:


> I'm not sure what his issue was...
> My experience was like yours...
> No Issues!



The more I think about it the more I wonder how many BW's we installed with the ICON valve. 2-3 years worth I suppose, at 50 or so a year that would be 100-150 heaters. We had no issues at all, leaks or valves. 

We serviced a 5 yr old BW last year but my manometer showed insufficient gas flow. Bypass surgery (abandoning and underground pipe) eliminated the flameout problem. We started with the ICON valve research though.


----------



## Master Mark

sparky said:


> Mark was just wondering,on these heaters that are leaking under 5yrs old,is or has there been a working expansion tank on the heater????also what about the pressure regulator??was it working also???just trying to figure out why these heaters are leaking under 5yrs of age!!


we run into every thing... 
note that only about 10%of the homes in our area have pressure reducing valves or thermal expansion tanks...
You can push them on the installs all day long if you wish, but most everyone does not want to pay for the upgrade. ...... (wait for it, ... wait for it..)


the one common denominator that I have noted is when they go out early there is almost ALWAYS a water softener in the system...

you can have the exact same house next door without the softener and the same unit might last 12 years...

In my own personal home I got a 75 gallon Bradford white gas.. It was installed in 2009...it began to leak in 2012. So I am on my second Bradford and I am waiting to see how long it lasts.... 
we have the PRV valve, the incoming pressure here is 110psi..
we have the larger thermal expansion tank on the heater...

and we have a clack water softener....I blame the soft water and I dont feel they are making their glass liners as well as they used to do

The Rheem heaters we are seeing very little trouble out of any of them


----------



## Master Mark

dhal22 said:


> The more I think about it the more I wonder how many BW's we installed with the ICON valve. 2-3 years worth I suppose, at 50 or so a year that would be 100-150 heaters. We had no issues at all, leaks or valves.
> 
> We serviced a 5 yr old BW last year but my manometer showed insufficient gas flow. Bypass surgery (abandoning and underground pipe) eliminated the flameout problem. We started with the ICON valve research though.


the water in your area might not be as aggressive as the water here in Indy... Our water is considered one of the worst or in the top 5 areas of the USA...Culligan is VERY BIG in the mid west for that very reason....


----------



## sparky

Master Mark said:


> we run into every thing...
> note that only about 10%of the homes in our area have pressure reducing valves or thermal expansion tanks...
> You can push them on the installs all day long if you wish, but most everyone does not want to pay for the upgrade. ...... (wait for it, ... wait for it..)
> 
> 
> the one common denominator that I have noted is when they go out early there is almost ALWAYS a water softener in the system...
> 
> you can have the exact same house next door without the softener and the same unit might last 12 years...
> 
> In my own personal home I got a 75 gallon Bradford white gas.. It was installed in 2009...it began to leak in 2012. So I am on my second Bradford and I am waiting to see how long it lasts....
> we have the PRV valve, the incoming pressure here is 110psi..
> we have the larger thermal expansion tank on the heater...
> 
> and we have a clack water softener....I blame the soft water and I dont feel they are making their glass liners as well as they used to do
> 
> The Rheem heaters we are seeing very little trouble out of any of them


Very interesting,thanks for more info,and if memory serves me right seems like I have read somewhere,maybe on the bw literature that they do not recommend having a softner with this heater,so you may be on to something there,just can't recall where I seen that at tho,and it might have been something not related to this either,can't remember


----------

