# Gruvlok Advanced Copper Method



## Skippy (Oct 18, 2012)

The copper piping in my building mainly domestic cold/hot water 2" - 6" piping was constructed using the Gruvlok ACM. Just learned recently that Gruvlok has discontinued this product line. My problem is that my building is only 5 years old at this point. In an effort to not mix the methods used to join pipe for expansion or maintenance of the system. I purchaced the grooving machine for this method. Not only for said efforts, but it seems that no contractor in my area or within 200 miles carries this equipment. If I ever had an issue with the system I could potentially be without water, and have to close down a 24/7 casino operation potentially for a couple of days (not exactly something the owners/operators would be happy about). 

Does anyone have any insight as to why they would close this product line? Other than it may not be a popular choice to join pipe, are there any issues with this method?


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

It has not been discontinued.


----------



## Skippy (Oct 18, 2012)

Just learned this information last week as i was attempting to bid a cap x project for the building. According to my supplier it had been discontinued. I called the regional representative for Anvil serving 5 states including MI, IL, IN, OH, and PA told me himself that this product line had been dropped by Anvil, as well as their website does not show fittings and most references to this method has been removed. With all due respect, I am certain that this product line has been discontinued. could you have mistaken my post for the CTS (Copper Tube Schedule) method?


----------



## UA22PLumber (Sep 17, 2012)

Looks to me like it's the beta-max version of copper grooving....Victaulic and Shurjoint share the same type groove.Where as Grulok's is propietary.....I've never heard of Gruvlok's version until I read this post,and my shop does 150 million+ a year...I guess gruvlok just isn't big in my neck of the woods..

If the waters down...I think the "not mixing joining methods" goes out the window...and you get someone there with a propress gun.Lead time is bad enough on Vic and Shurjoint copper fittings,I imagine if Grulok still makes them....it would be just as bad anyway.


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Just called Anvil and asked to speak with someone familiar with the product there. They said it was not discontinued?! No offense taken. Maybe she doesn't know, maybe your rep is no longer their rep?


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Call Dave Burns at 440-670-2516, he is a salesman of theirs that can point you in the right direction. Hope it helps.


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

They just called me back to let me know that they told me wrong. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Skippy (Oct 18, 2012)

In responce to UA22.

The Gruvlok ACM I believe would be proprietary. For those that may not know the ACM, basically it flares out the end of the pipe to IPS size and puts the groove in it at the same time. I am under the impression by doing this you can save money on couplings as it was cheaper to cast IPS size vs CTS. I believe I checked into this a few years back, and as an example a 2" IPS size coupling was roughly $8 and a 2" CTS was roughly $20 the larger it is the more it costs. With this in mind you work for a company that does $150m+/year you can imagine a large project using a thousand couplings could potentially save thousands of dollars.

Another bit of information ill throw out there, is the Gruvlok CTS couplings will work on a vic groove. The groove dimensions and tolerances on the pipe are the same. In a pinch I actually used a vic coupling on a gruvlok groove.

In responce to Gettinit

Dave is the contact that I have been dealing with on this issue. I do have a meeting set up with him, to talk over things for the future of my system. In the research I have done on this subject, plus in speaking with some major plumbing contractors. This is not a popular method, and pretty much no one handles service for this. I really needed to throw the questions out there to the fine professionals on this forum, to see if there was anyone out there that has experience with this, and if there were potential issues I could face in the future, aside from soon to be lack of support.

I definately would not have installed such a system. I really cant believe that out of all the approved joining methods that was in the project manuals this one was chosen. Im not the engineer or the contractor just the poor :jester: that has to deal with it.


----------



## stupid helper (Sep 30, 2012)

Skippy said:


> In responce to UA22.
> 
> The Gruvlok ACM I believe would be proprietary. For those that may not know the ACM, basically it flares out the end of the pipe to IPS size and puts the groove in it at the same time. I am under the impression by doing this you can save money on couplings as it was cheaper to cast IPS size vs CTS. I believe I checked into this a few years back, and as an example a 2" IPS size coupling was roughly $8 and a 2" CTS was roughly $20 the larger it is the more it costs. With this in mind you work for a company that does $150m+/year you can imagine a large project using a thousand couplings could potentially save thousands of dollars.
> 
> ...


If you can't fix it with Gruvlok I would just fix it with a pro-press fitting..Might be expensive but your running a casino.. You'll make it back lol


----------



## stupid helper (Sep 30, 2012)

stupid helper said:


> If you can't fix it with Gruvlok I would just fix it with a pro-press fitting..Might be expensive but your running a casino.. You'll make it back lol


Or whenever you have a problem you can just fix it one leak at a time and replace the Gruvlok with regular solider joints.. Are you having problems already??


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

UA22PLumber said:


> .I've never heard of Gruvlok's version until I read this post,and my shop does 150 million+ a year...I guess gruvlok just isn't big in my neck of the woods..
> 
> 
> John W. Danforth Co?


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Buy a propress like others have said and keep a supply of couplings of every size that they have in the building.


----------



## Skippy (Oct 18, 2012)

Pro press would be nice to have to make these repairs. Even though I am at a casino it is not a cash cow and i do have to operate under a budget. Chances of me getting to purchace a Pro Press might be slim unless I could really sell it to management. 

Although a Pro Press is a good tool and would be a good idea if I were doing service in an area where my company would expect me to get the job done and move on to the next. I do service in a specific location and manage that particular trade. Nothing against the guys that use that tool. I am going to steer away from mixing joining methods in the building, take pride in my facility, and keep things in original condition. Plus I will not need to keep stock for an additional method.

Chances are if I have an issue I have to turn the water off anyway drain it and make the repair. Due to the lack of isolation in my system draining the system down enough to make a repair can take some time I can pretty much prep what I need for repairs, install it, and really not take that much more time to do it to justify a Pro Press, and still maintain a uniform fitting in the system.


----------



## stupid helper (Sep 30, 2012)

I like Making a solider joint before pro-press any day just bc that o-ring in the fitting will eventually go bad.. But if they don't make the gruvlok stuff to do copper with anymore aren't you going to have change your method of joining your pipe anyways? Whatcha going to go back with?


----------



## stupid helper (Sep 30, 2012)

stupid helper said:


> I like Making a solider joint before pro-press any day just bc that o-ring in the fitting will eventually go bad.. But if they don't make the gruvlok stuff to do copper with anymore aren't you going to have change your method of joining your pipe anyways? Whatcha going to go back with?


I read that back to myself and kind of sounded like a smartass.. Didn't mean it like that


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I looked into gruv-lock as opposed to victaulic in 2001. At that time it was not approved for 140 degree water.

I never checked back. I'm vic for larger than 2" and pro-press or solder for 2" and smaller.


----------



## Skippy (Oct 18, 2012)

Had my meeting today with the rep. Pretty much no chance that the ACM method is going to be sold to a 3rd party manufacturer for replacement or repair fittings. I will have to move on and use the CTS method in the future. 

Im with you on this Stupid Helper id rather solder a joint than use the propress. Although propress is fast, and easy, problem is if the joint fails then I will have to cut further back in the plumbing system to remove the joint. TBH I dont have alot of experience with propress and I would question the integrity of the joint I did it with.


----------



## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Just googled Gruvlok and was looking on Graingers website, look at what other products customers bought that bought Gruvlok fittings......maybe they **** themselves after realizing they went out of business


----------

