# Why do you give free estimates?



## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

Free Estimates

OK here is my take on free estimates:
I know it works for some guys that are one man shops. It works in different areas where the customer expects to pay a fare rate, or in areas where it is hard just to get someone to come out. Then there are the guys that just want a crack at every customer because they are the world’s best sales person, even when the person does not need the service. My question is why do you go out for free and how long could you really go out for free?

The reason I do not is sooner or later someone has to pay for all the free calls or I can just price accordingly. I have not found a customer yet that goes to work for free and I ask when the need arises. It cost me in gas and labor to go give an estimate so I charge for the service. If the customer does the work it goes towards the repairs. Have you ever asked yourself why the customer wants or expects you to come out for free? They certainly will not have any commitment to you if you are there for free. I find a lot of the time they are shopping in my area. If your customer has no skin in the game and the next guy will come out for free to then they can shop on if they wish. There are times when they need the job done right away and don’t have that much time, every case is different. Just what are you telling your customer when you come out for free? Is your time worth anything to them, I am sure they said thank you and you can cash that at the bank. What is your opinion worth if you come out for free, nothing? Another reason I don’t go out for free is I find customers not wanting to pay for service is the first one to complain about pricing and are more likely to write a bad review. In the area I live in we have a lot of Indians, Asians, and foreigners that have money but like to shop and if possible would try to change the writing on the contracts if they could. If you come out for free they have no respect for you and will run over you if possible. Before someone says I am a racist my wife is Asian trust me it is part of the culture to shop. I know everyone get hungry from time to time but you have to ask yourself if I did not burn the gas and go out for free all the time would I have more? I have heard that if I did not go out there for free I would not have got the job. I don’t make it a habit to turn away phone calls or business. I spend the time on the phone and try to build up my worth to them and make them think I am the guy they want to hire. If they don’t buy it I understand and I don’t expect all of them to buy into it just like I don’t buy into going out just for a free look. I try to make the most of my calls we never leave without inspecting the rest of the home. Is there something that was over looked that the customer needs? My guys are there and it does not cost me gas to look and I might make an additional sale. It is already built into the sales price too. My question again is why do you go out for free estimates?


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

have you ever done a free test drive at a dealer when looking at a vehicle or do you pay the dealer $75 for their time?:whistling2:


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## Drainprodm (Apr 2, 2013)

Free estimates are for major stuff


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

As far as I know, nearly every contractor in our area gives free estimates. The one or two who don't I hear complaints from people non stop about it. If we didn't do it we'd be the odd ones out. It's a shame, but it's the norm here.

That being said a lot of other businesses do it around here too. If I take my car to a garage and get an estimate I wouldn't expect to be charged, because I never have been. Even major chains like Canadian tire. I wouldn't have a problem if I were charged for it, but nobody ever does. I think it would be a hard thing to change.


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

*Why do you give free estimates*



SchmitzPlumbing said:


> have you ever done a free test drive at a dealer when looking at a vehicle or do you pay the dealer $75 for their time?:whistling2:


 A lot of dealer pay there salespeople a set salary plus commission. I have had family in that biz to. I would not compare myself to a car sales person they don't have to have any training to work there. Most don't have any job skills that will lead to other jobs that is why they are there. Plus car sales people do not have the best rep either. My uncle was a plumber for 60 years and he always told me in any job people are paying you to solve a problem in any job. If you don't solve a problem you don't have a job or a secure job. This is a trade where people are paying you for your know how and to solve their problems. It takes 8 years to get a masters here in Texas. I would say it takes 10 years to make a good plumber. All that time does not come cheap. I am not saying don't give free estimates if you want to just why would you. Back to the car lot have you ever taken your car in and had them look at one for free? The mechanic would be a better comparison to a plumber he does have to have training and skill. To answer your question I would question anyone trying to do something for me for free. If someone calls you on the phone giving out something for free what is your next question. That is the same way I look at people that would come to my home to work and give me a free estimate.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

After driving around doin free estimates for the first 6 months only to find out I got beat by some guy who will beat any written estimate, I've had good success at going over the scope of work in detail while writing it down on my proposal sheet then ill show the customer my detailed list to show them were on the same page, then I will only give them a verbal quote. Nothing in writing gets a free estimate, ill simply tell them if they would like to schedule the work I will accept a 10% deposit, or it if they're still on the fence I will give them the written estimate for 5% of the estimate price. So a water heater estimate will run about $75 for a written estimate, this way if they choose someone who wants to beat my price by 10% they'll potentially save $75 but ill at least get my fuel n time covered.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

I won't miss paying work to give a free estimate. I give one a day on my ride home. Being a drains only company I could probably give my price over the phone. I prefer to pull up in my lettered pick up that has only a camera and a few hand tools in it after work and spend at most an hour with the customer. I would say I get 90% of the jobs and I am by far not the cheapest in town. I wish I could charge for it but the reputation of being the guy who shows up when they get home at five and gives a written estimate has made me successful


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

*


mytxplumber said:



Free Estimates

OK here is my take on free estimates:
I know it works for some guys that are one man shops. It works in different areas where the customer expects to pay a fare rate, or in areas where it is hard just to get someone to come out. Then there are the guys that just want a crack at every customer because they are the world’s best sales person, even when the person does not need the service. My question is why do you go out for free and how long could you really go out for free?

Click to expand...

*


mytxplumber said:


> I already covered one man shops... How long can you do it if it is someone other than yourself? What if you have guys that are just riding the clock. As you expand and grow some of the rules change. Also we do a lot more than drain cleaning so time is money to us.. I am not knocking drain cleaners or small shops. I have been there years ago and I remember my mistakes of just trying to get any job or call. Now my time is worth more money and my guys to... This is not to pick at anyone here just hopefully to make you think. I have tried both ways and went back and forth over the early years. The phone saves on gas and time and when you have enough calls you can cherry pick more too. We do a lot of leak locating and slab calls, gas calls and bigger ticket items. Going out for free I thank God those days are over...


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Dude believe me I wish I could charge for estimates and I think it's awesome some of you guys can. It's just the norm here


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

I've gone back and forth with it. Every time I do the free estimate it goes nowhere or like you said, they're not an ideal customer. A warning sign should be when they ask, "do you give free estimates?" Those are never worth it! I'm making a commitment going forward to no free estimates. I'm even kicking around getting paid for the dispatch before I go out. Last week I had a customer agree to the dispatch and then not want to pay after not liking the estimate. (She was Asian by the way and wanted to get the longer warranty for the cheaper price). Or maybe get an authorization to dispatch for xx amount using docu sign and email.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Maybe I'm just ignorant here but it seems to me that residential (with the exception of slum lord Commerical guys) seem to be the only ones who really try to gouge tradesman for free extras. 

Is there really a residential service job that you can't give an accurate estimate on in roughly an hour? So you might be out 100 bucks in unearned labor, welcome to being self employed. 

I won't give someone a free face to face estimate for cleaning a 2" drain because as long as it's less than 200 ft long and not broken I know how long it will take and what it will cost to clean it up so I can give them a not to exceed $*** or whatever. But when someone calls me about jetting a couple hundred feet of 8" or something crazy like that I will go out and meet with them first. Not only does it let your customer see that you are the real deal in your field and not a crook (unless you are) but it also lets you see what kind of customer this is, are they a soft hand corporate guy who is a pro at being a dick and knocking people down? Or is he a hands on guy who likes to do things properly and pays for the finer things in life? Is the property for sale and they need something rectified before they dump the joint? Do they take pride in their home and invest in it like we do our trucks? Been pretty good method for me. I bill all customers even brand new ones on a net 30 account. As of right now I only have three past 30 days, they are all less than 90 days out as well I attribute a lot of that to using a free estimate

We all know how to spot shady customers and while the time in the field might cost you a couple bucks you can possibly avoid the hassle of dealing with a **** head three months later when you haven't been paid and they won't answer your calls. 

It works for me in my area. Hope it helps.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

If you want to get really good just tally up how many times a month you lose money giving a free estimate for a job you didn't get. Average it out and Consider it a monthly expense that you figure into your prices.


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## 408plumber (Apr 24, 2012)

I get people (residential customer) wanting us to come out and diagnosis a problem and them give the a price to repair it. Ok I get it. But why would I give the customer a detailed proposal for free and even for them to show the next guy? I just call it a service call and give them my hourly rate. Now if I know the job is going to be over $*** I will go out because I can justify the estimate.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I give free estimates because the next thing I do after giving the estimate is go to my van and grab the parts and tools I need to do the job...

I Like That Part! :thumbup:


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

There's no such thing as a free estimate. 😄

It cost the company money to make the phone ring, lots of money for each call. 
Add to this the real cost to send yourself or another plumber to a customers house, and now you're into a few hundred dollars, for each and every call. Even for a 100% commissioned sales staff like for some of the bath remodeling companies, it cost the owner money each time someone is sent to a new customer's house to quote a job.

Somebody has to pay these costs, unless of course, you close 100% of the calls you are sent to give estimates on like Red, then you just build these estimating costs into the cost of the job.

But for the rest of us who close an industry average of 30-40% of calls because we just aren't great sales people, it's best to charge a fee to offset the company's losses from the jobs you don't sell.

Btw, if you're doing an average of 3 calls per day and would charge a small diagnostic fee of $30 each, you would earn over $23,000 in revenue that you didn't have before, and very likely still close at an industry average of 30-40% of all calls. Jump it up to $46,000 by charging $60 for a diagnostic fee. 😎


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Cajunhiker said:


> There's no such thing as a free estimate. &#55357;&#56836;
> 
> It cost the company money to make the phone ring, lots of money for each call.
> Add to this the real cost to send yourself or another plumber to a customers house, and now you're into a few hundred dollars, for each and every call. Even for a 100% commissioned sales staff like for some of the bath remodeling companies, it cost the owner money each time someone is sent to a new customer's house to quote a job.
> ...


You are right there is no such thing as a Free Estimate...

It is a Priceless Chance for a Face to Face Meeting with a potential customer...

Whatever you did to reach that point it is working...
Don't Freakin Blow It by starting up with the nickel dime charges...
Dispatch Fee
Fuel & Mileage Charge
Minimum Trip Charge
They aren't going to add up to your real costs anyway...

And no I don't close 100%...
But I sure close enough of them to make it worth my while...
If you are only closing 30-40% you need to brush up on your sales techniques...
First of all get rid of whoever is telling you that 30-40% is the industry norm...
They are blowing smoke up your azz...
Think that double that is a minimum performance level...
Become a Closer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H68eCEWKb7M


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Redwood said:


> You are right there is no such thing as a Free Estimate...
> 
> It is a Priceless Chance for a Face to Face Meeting with a potential customer...
> 
> ...


30-40%? Wow..I close 80-90%


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

Your right there is no such thing as a free estimate. I have been in business long enough that I don't have to go out for nothing. I prefer to qualify and filter my calls on the phone when possible. We do cherry pick because we can. The last 25 years we have made it just fine. I never said my way was the only way, but my time is worth more than giving out an estimate for free. Just like you guys saying you close lets say 80% I get that or more on the phone. You can build value on the phone too. There are just some calls I don't want and the ones wanting something for nothing I don't want. Again most of those I can convince to have me come out for a fee after I build value in my services in there mind. It's not that hard to do they called me not the other way around. If you have done this long enough one thing you learn is you don't want every customer that calls. Learning witch ones to walk away from is another thing experience will teach you in time. Good luck guys.. All I am saying is free is not for me.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> 30-40%? Wow..I close 80-90%


Yea... Me Too!

It's tough to realize but something those nationwide rooter companies have 100% right with their techs is, "In Residential service sales is the most important part of our job."

You can be the best plumber in the whole damn world...
But if you aren't selling your work, you aren't working...



mytxplumber said:


> Your right there is no such thing as a free estimate. I have been in business long enough that I don't have to go out for nothing. I prefer to qualify and filter my calls on the phone when possible. We do cherry pick because we can. The last 25 years we have made it just fine. I never said my way was the only way, but my time is worth more than giving out an estimate for free. Just like you guys saying you close lets say 80% I get that or more on the phone. You can build value on the phone too. There are just some calls I don't want and the ones wanting something for nothing I don't want. Again most of those I can convince to have me come out for a fee after I build value in my services in there mind. It's not that hard to do they called me not the other way around. If you have done this long enough one thing you learn is you don't want every customer that calls. Learning witch ones to walk away from is another thing experience will teach you in time. Good luck guys.. All I am saying is free is not for me.


My one question to you is...
Can you tell me how you sell additional jobs over the phone?
I know you are going there to rebuild a toilet....
But geez...
Did you see that water running out from under the thermostat covers on the electric water heater over the phone?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

mytxplumber said:


> Your right there is no such thing as a free estimate. I have been in business long enough that I don't have to go out for nothing. I prefer to qualify and filter my calls on the phone when possible. We do cherry pick because we can. The last 25 years we have made it just fine. I never said my way was the only way, but my time is worth more than giving out an estimate for free. Just like you guys saying you close lets say 80% I get that or more on the phone. You can build value on the phone too. There are just some calls I don't want and the ones wanting something for nothing I don't want. Again most of those I can convince to have me come out for a fee after I build value in my services in there mind. It's not that hard to do they called me not the other way around. If you have done this long enough one thing you learn is you don't want every customer that calls. Learning witch ones to walk away from is another thing experience will teach you in time. Good luck guys.. All I am saying is free is not for me.


 

we do about the same thing as you do.. I screen the calls over the phone and dont get involved in their family drama... like the brother in law screwed up my kitchen sink drain ect ect.... 

after asking a few questions....like where do you live in town , and what exactly is your problem and what do you want done...I will usually just shoot them a price over the phone.....

if they start to haggle with me over 25 bucks or expect to drag me out to their home just to talk .... I usually tell them no thanks and move on... 

Usually, then they start to cry about that "free Estimate" and I tell them I just gave them one and 
I am not going to come out to their home and nail it down to the penny just to make them happy


I can smell dog crap a mile away any more and I dont need to step in it every day...


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Yea... Me Too!
> 
> It's tough to realize but something those nationwide rooter companies have 100% right with their techs is, "In Residential service sales is the most important part of our job."
> 
> ...


 You video was about real estate salesmen. Even in real estate one of the first things you do is qualify the buyer you have, can they buy what they are looking at. We do the same we qualify the customer if they are asking for a free estimate. If we can't build value in our service then why go out? As to up selling that we do when we are there for the most part. Sometimes after you have spent more than 10 seconds on the phone with a customer and asked questions trying to help them they tell you they have other problems. That can lead you to other things they might need to this is how I upsell on the phone. I take sales seriously but I do like to have qualified leads for our guys to go on. Life is to short to have to deal with an unsavory customer just to spend my money.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

mytxplumber said:


> *You video was about real estate salesmen. Even in real estate one of the first things you do is qualify the buyer you have, can they buy what they are looking at.* We do the same we qualify the customer if they are asking for a free estimate. If we can't build value in our service then why go out? As to up selling that we do when we are there for the most part. Sometimes after you have spent more than 10 seconds on the phone with a customer and asked questions trying to help them they tell you they have other problems. That can lead you to other things they might need to this is how I upsell on the phone. I take sales seriously but I do like to have qualified leads for our guys to go on. *Life is to short to have to deal with an unsavory customer just to spend my money.*


Ummm... Wow!

You do realize there are a crapload of zero's different between buying a couple of hundred thousand dollar shack and a toilet rebuild...:laughing:

As for the "Unsavory Customer" out to spend your money I sometimes wonder about that "Potential Customer" wanting to meet and greet that "Unsavory Plumber" out to separate them from their hard earned money...:laughing:

Maybe rewatch the video starting at 3:00....


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

*Why do you give free estimates*

I do realize that I have several homes here and I own property in other countries to. I get to live in a nice shack too. Again what works for me might not be right for you. My way has served me nicely and will continue to do so. Sales are sales what ever business you are in. Your video had a guy coming in to ram a Sales at any cost program in, that is not for me. I prefer a soft touch and to listen to the customers. The first thing I learned in sales was you have to find your own style. Again different markets have different aspects to them. I have never thought that there was only one way to skin a cat. I have tried a lot of them over the years. My question was only to get people to discuss why are you going to for a free estimate? This is to get people in a discussion so other can learn through others experience. This is so all of us can take a look at what we are doing and maybe rethink things. I always welcomed new ideas and hearing from others in this trade it helps me to make more money over time. That should be what a forum like this is about. I find that sometimes here guys get the feathers ruffed if someone has a different opinion. I see guys here that don't want to post for fear of being burn at the stake. I do wish more guys here would take advantage of this forum to really talk about practice and profit generation more. That is really what this post is about. Anyone else that has a different opinion is welcomed to join in. Good luck guys...


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

mytxplumber said:


> I do realize that I have several homes here and I own property in other countries to. I get to live in a nice shack too. Again what works for me might not be right for you. My way has served me nicely and will continue to do so. Sales are sales what ever business you are in. Your video had a guy coming in to ram a Sales at any cost program in, that is not for me. I prefer a soft touch and to listen to the customers. The first thing I learned in sales was you have to find your own style. Again different markets have different aspects to them. I have never thought that there was only one way to skin a cat. I have tried a lot of them over the years. My question was only to get people to discuss why are you going to for a free estimate? This is to get people in a discussion so other can learn through others experience. This is so all of us can take a look at what we are doing and maybe rethink things. I always welcomed new ideas and hearing from others in this trade it helps me to make more money over time. That should be what a forum like this is about. I find that sometimes here guys get the feathers ruffed if someone has a different opinion. I see guys here that don't want to post for fear of being burn at the stake. I do wish more guys here would take advantage of this forum to really talk about practice and profit generation more. That is really what this post is about. Anyone else that has a different opinion is welcomed to join in. Good luck guys...


I like the way you think and appreciate what you have to offer. Keep it up.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> we do about the same thing as you do.. I screen the calls over the phone and dont get involved in their family drama... like the brother in law screwed up my kitchen sink drain ect ect....


Yea... That sounds exactly like someone that doesn't need a plumber...:laughing::blink:


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

those free estimates make me a darn good living.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

mytxplumber said:


> I do realize that I have several homes here and I own property in other countries to. I get to live in a nice shack too. Again what works for me might not be right for you. My way has served me nicely and will continue to do so. *Sales are sales what ever business you are in.* Your video had a guy coming in to ram a Sales at any cost program in, that is not for me. I prefer a soft touch and to listen to the customers. The first thing I learned in sales was you have to find your own style.


Right there kicks your "You video was about real estate salesmen." to the curb. I'm not sure what it takes "To Qualify" a homeowner on a $240 toilet repair but if you feel you have to do it then go for it...

I didn't see any customers getting a sale rammed at them at any cost in that video. In fact there were no customers in that video...

What I did see was a bunch of loser salesmen in an office being told that their sales record was abysmal and they had to improve immediately or, they would be fired.

My comment was directed at a person that stated they closed a sale on 30 - 40% of the calls they went on and saying it was the "Industry Average." :laughing:

If you are closing a sale over the phone on 80 - 90% of the calls you receive then God Bless Ya Your Doing It Right


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Yea... That sounds exactly like someone that doesn't need a plumber...:laughing::blink:


 
Redwood....Lots of folks out there dont need a plumber.... they need a family counsoler......half of them are nuts and no one th the family is gonna pull the trigger and pay for someone to do the work

they just want free advice over the phone so if you are stupid enough not to screen your calls all you are gonna be doing is wasteing your time playing ""Doctor Phil.the plumber" 
FOR FREE..:no::no::no:






from the cheap assed customer thread


tonight I get an asian lady that wants me to come out and inspect her dishwasher shut off valve under her sink because it wont shut off ....... 

and she wants a free diagnosis why it wont shut off:blink::blink:

I told her that is is simply broken over the phone and it would be between 100 and 175 for us to change it out.....

she goes , well we just want to understand why its not working, is it a bad washer or what??? because we went to lowes and picked up a new part ourselves but it wont work.....:blink::blink::laughing:

I said, NO, I am not running out to your home for free to tell you what you need to pick up at lowes.....:no::no:


the cheap asses just keep a comming this week


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> . I'm not sure what it takes "To Qualify" a homeowner on a $240 toilet repair t


In my area there is no way possible to charge 240 bucks to install a handle,fill valve,and flapper.before they would pay that kind of money for three pieces of plastic they would rather have a new toilet installed!!yall are lucky to be able to work in and around a large city population,y'all have it made and don't realize it:yes:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

sparky said:


> In my area there is no way possible to charge 240 bucks to install a handle,fill valve,and flapper.before they would pay that kind of money for three pieces of plastic they would rather have a new toilet installed!!yall are lucky to be able to work in and around a large city population,y'all have it made and don't realize it:yes:


Right! It's all proportional...
Our overhead is a bit higher than yours too...
Real Estate...
Utilities...
Taxes...
Even the groceries...

It all gets passed on to the consumer..


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

This is a question to Redwood. I have fought this question and went back and forth in the beginning. For the first 5 years I tried the free estimates back and forth. The last 20 years I have not had to give them. My question to you is: Are you the business owner or do you subcontract or are you employed somewhere? This is not to pick at you. I think you are a professional plumber and the trade needs more professionals. With that being said a lot of the guys that are good at this trade are let say highly opinionated. There is nothing wrong with it. I am still of the opinion that each business owner has the right to do it their way, that is why I went into business. The market will mandate their success or failure. When I say market I mean local market and industry. I have made it quite well over the years and my retirement future is bright. I am not in the field as often these days but I still go out to see customers and keep my finger on the pulse of the business. My market is telling me that I am doing something right. Again I welcome the any learning experience and think if you are in a job where you are not learning you need to find another job. Again this thread is to bring this subject out in the light and to debate it. I think a lot of people are on the sidelines afraid of being beat down for an opinion. I know your position and you know mine. This is something I would change if market conditions change or I need to. Right now I just don't need to or want to, again this has to do with success.


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

I have always given free estimates for the last 5 years some you win some you loose. It is amazing how much you can learn over the years. Many times you can tell the client that won't do anything over the phone or even if you went to their house same outcome. For These clients I trow a price over the phone and I usually get a "thank you" they never call back. I'm personally not interested in this client anyways.

I believe there is only one reason for giving free estimates. This reason is so that you may have a better shot at getting the work when you meet face to face. There are things that can't be done over the phone and going over to the client's house is the best way to get work for the most part.

In my experience those who don't mind paying for the plumber to come out in most cases are good clients. This is the reason I just started charging for us to come out we will see how it goes...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

mytxplumber said:


> This is a question to Redwood. I have fought this question and went back and forth in the beginning. For the first 5 years I tried the free estimates back and forth. The last 20 years I have not had to give them. My question to you is: Are you the business owner or do you subcontract or are you employed somewhere? This is not to pick at you. I think you are a professional plumber and the trade needs more professionals. With that being said a lot of the guys that are good at this trade are let say highly opinionated. There is nothing wrong with it. I am still of the opinion that each business owner has the right to do it their way, that is why I went into business. The market will mandate their success or failure. When I say market I mean local market and industry. I have made it quite well over the years and my retirement future is bright. I am not in the field as often these days but I still go out to see customers and keep my finger on the pulse of the business. My market is telling me that I am doing something right. Again I welcome the any learning experience and think if you are in a job where you are not learning you need to find another job. Again this thread is to bring this subject out in the light and to debate it. I think a lot of people are on the sidelines afraid of being beat down for an opinion. I know your position and you know mine. This is something I would change if market conditions change or I need to. Right now I just don't need to or want to, again this has to do with success.


I am an employee and work for commission, I wouldn't have it any other way!
I close the sales, get tons of extra work on the tickets, get the work done quickly and accurately, maintaining a callback rate of less than 1%...
I like the rewards that commission gives me for doing my job well.

If the company were to put us on hourly pay tomorrow it would be my last day...

You are right about opinionated...
That's why I'm an employee and not an owner...
With my opinions and temper I'd be a OMS or, have some real labor problems...:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

cjtheplumber said:


> I have always given free estimates for the last 5 years some you win some you loose. It is amazing how much you can learn over the years. Many times you can tell the client that won't do anything over the phone or even if you went to their house same outcome. For These clients I trow a price over the phone and I usually get a "thank you" they never call back. I'm personally not interested in this client anyways.
> 
> I believe there is only one reason for giving free estimates. This reason is so that you may have a better shot at getting the work when you meet face to face. There are things that can't be done over the phone and going over to the client's house is the best way to get work for the most part.
> 
> In my experience those who don't mind paying for the plumber to come out in most cases are good clients. This is the reason I just started charging for us to come out we will see how it goes...


Absolutely you will land more work with a face to face. The small percentage that you do not close a sale on is more than made up for by the additional successes from that face to face...

I don't waste a lot of time once I feel there isn't going to be a sale...
A few times I've had them chase after me as I was heading for the van...:laughing:
Oh well I was wrong when that guy was trying to compare my prices for installing a kitchen sink faucet and garbage disposer with Homer...
I replied, "You should have had them do it, because I wouldn't install one of them for the price you have been quoted for both. Call me when it is all screwed up and I'll fix it.":laughing:

It turns out he did want me to do it, and chased me all the way to my van...:laughing:


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

I drove 39 miles one way today to look at a sinkhole in the front yard. I had them scheduled early this morning to get it out the way. I figured the seepage pit was shot and needed replacing or hooked to city sewer. So I stop for fuel about 10 mins shy of of our meeting, I call and no answer, I showed up and no one was home :furious: I spend a few minutes and look at the sinkhole that's from the lid of a 18' deep pit full of sewage. I call again and no answer, I leave pissed off knowing that I still have another 90 miles to my next estimate. This lady finally calls me stoned off her azz at 11 am and tells me to just slip the estimate between door jamb, I told her I don't have time for games and call someone else. Got to my other estimate 2-1/2 hours later and I landed a nice paying repipe for a state facility:thumbup:


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

I am looking at this from the owners point of view. It is a matter of preferences I just don't do free estimates. I do take time to talk to the customer and convert most of them to paying customers this is a part of the road to a close too. I am not picking at you for being an employee but it s different when you captain your own ship. Most guys I find give free estimates around the 5 year period and usually give it up after that time. There are different markets that you might want to give more lead way to like lining but my experience there is 99% will pay you to camera and evaluate the situation here. I commend you for having passion about your point of view. I like the responsibility and rewards of owning my own business. I would not have it any other way either. Again this is a forum to gain opinions not a grudge match or pissing contest. I had hope for more people to jump into the conversation but I think a lot have be bullied or are afraid to put their two cents in sometimes. Me a I am always on the look for a better way or another way to try to skin the same cat. This is an ever changing business in every aspect for legal, tooling, materials and so on. I have never been afraid to change. I know I can not eat pride and never tried to that has served me well over the years. Thanks to the guys that share and participate in all the treads I post. Your move....


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Typically we don't give free estimates. . . small fee is charged, and waived, if they get the work done.

Exceptions to the rule:

1. We are slow
2. We are already in the area
3. Bigger job like bathroom reno.
4. They were referred by an existing customer
5. Sufficient rapport built during phone call

If a caller suggests they are entitled to a free estimate, the answer is ALWAYS no!


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

Lets face it people are not the same as they were 20 or 30 years ago. No one has loyalty to a plumber anymore. Most people are looking at price first until you build value in your service. Even then some just want a price and that is all do not want to give a name, address or phone number just want you to give them a price. Their are no morals today and a lot will threaten to sue you for nothing. This is a rapidly changing business that is why I am always questioning others as to how they handle business and why. I share my thoughts with guys that use to work for me and now have there own shops. I loan them equipment and other things as they need them. I get calls every week from guys that have worked for us over the years asking something. In return we exchange ideas and give each other a heads up about other people in the industry. The free lunches aren't bad either..


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

mytxplumber said:


> Lets face it people are not the same as they were 20 or 30 years ago. No one has loyalty to a plumber anymore. Most people are looking at price first until you build value in your service. Even then some just want a price and that is all do not want to give a name, address or phone number just want you to give them a price. Their are no morals today and a lot will threaten to sue you for nothing. This is a rapidly changing business that is why I am always questioning others as to how they handle business and why. I share my thoughts with guys that use to work for me and now have there own shops. I loan them equipment and other things as they need them. I get calls every week from guys that have worked for us over the years asking something. In return we exchange ideas and give each other a heads up about other people in the industry. The free lunches aren't bad either..


We should all befriend our 'friendly' competitors. That alone would benefit the trade greatly. Customers use our competitors against us. If we joined together and took a stand regarding 'free' estimates, no one would be wasting money chasing bottom feeders / shoppers.


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

A wise woman is good to find. Thanks for the post and I have tried this over the years.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

mytxplumber said:


> I am looking at this from the owners point of view. It is a matter of preferences I just don't do free estimates. I do take time to talk to the customer and convert most of them to paying customers this is a part of the road to a close too. I am not picking at you for being an employee but it s different when you captain your own ship. Most guys I find give free estimates around the 5 year period and usually give it up after that time. There are different markets that you might want to give more lead way to like lining but my experience there is 99% will pay you to camera and evaluate the situation here. I commend you for having passion about your point of view. I like the responsibility and rewards of owning my own business. I would not have it any other way either. Again this is a forum to gain opinions not a grudge match or pissing contest. I had hope for more people to jump into the conversation but I think a lot have be bullied or are afraid to put their two cents in sometimes. Me a I am always on the look for a better way or another way to try to skin the same cat. This is an ever changing business in every aspect for legal, tooling, materials and so on. I have never been afraid to change. I know I can not eat pride and never tried to that has served me well over the years. Thanks to the guys that share and participate in all the treads I post. Your move....


Actually you as an Owner, and me on Commission have a lot more common ground than you probably think...:laughing::yes:

Kinda like if you don't fking work, you don't fking eat...:laughing:

For the most part I have a lot of customers in a small geographic area...
Connecticut isn't like that state where the sun can rise and set and you ain't left Texas yet...:laughing:
But as small as Connecticut is there are times that you just can't get there from here...
A drive that in normal conditions would take 40 minutes could take 4 hours...

Free Estimates have worked out well for me...
I manage to get it to pay off nicely...


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

Again different markets have different people and mind sets. There are 6 million people in my market. I am just working the system that has served us well. As for not working and not eating that is the same everywhere..


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Phat Cat said:


> We should all befriend our 'friendly' competitors. That alone would benefit the trade greatly. Customers use our competitors against us. If we joined together and took a stand regarding 'free' estimates, no one would be wasting money chasing bottom feeders / shoppers.


I would love for this to happen. Plumbers are just too quick to throw each other under the bus if you charge to go out and they don't or you're more expensive than they are.
If only half of all plumbers in any given service area would stick together and set some common grounds it would be felt and start to set the playing field.


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

*Seo*



sierra2000 said:


> I would love for this to happen. Plumbers are just too quick to throw each other under the bus if you charge to go out and they don't or you're more expensive than they are.
> If only half of all plumbers in any given service area would stick together and set some common grounds it would be felt and start to set the playing field.


The only problem is it is called price fixing. Their were a lot of real estate companies sued for that in the late 80's and early 90's. Again this is a legal system we are in too.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Not necessarily come together about pricing ourselves the same to where it's considered price fixing. 
More along the lines that requires us to take some simple classes when we get our license that shows us how to determine our seen and unseen overhead and how to use that to set correct selling rate. I think if we knew this coming out the gate we'd realize that there is a charge associated with getting that truck to a customers house that should be paid for by the customer and could be waived if the work is done.
When I started out I had no clue on anything about charging for estimates, pricing or anything business. 
All I knew was I just passed the test so I'm qualified in the states eye to run a business and I was making $38 at the company I just left and had a decent living so if I charge double that on my own I can't loose!

So if we have some common knowledge on how operations should be ran, that would even out the playing field a bit.
Grocery stores, gas stations and most other businesses are pretty close in their operations and pricing for some reason. What happened to the construction industry? Why are we so far off from each other to the point where it makes one look like a crook compared to the other?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I refuse to go out on an estimate for a new customer without getting paid for dropping a written estimate. The people that just want an estimate are price shopping. That's ok with me. But I won't give them a written estimate for free. 

Verbal estimates over the phone are free. That's if I choose to quote a price. Sometimes I won't. Those are just ballpark and I won't be held to those. And if anyone asks me to honor a verbal estimate, I'll tell them that a verbal estimate isn't worth the paper it's written on. Written quotes are good for {30} days. It states as much on the proposal itself.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

^^^^what Tommy said^^^^


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Right! It's all proportional...
> Our overhead is a bit higher than yours too...
> Real Estate...
> Utilities...
> ...



Yes very much so,it do cost more to live in the larger population area:thumbup:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Absolutely you will land more work with a face to face. The small percentage that you do not close a sale on is more than made up for by the additional successes from that face to face...
> 
> I don't waste a lot of time once I feel there isn't going to be a sale...
> A few times I've had them chase after me as I was heading for the van...:laughing:
> ...


You can do this in a large populated area,but say in my small rural area that I did what you said about homer above,they would tell stand so who would tell sound so that I was a knowitall smart azz and before I know it the phone is silent.in this rural area you really have to walk on eggshells at times,wish I had an area similier to yours and a lot of others on here,but have to make best of it:yes:


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

.................


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Fast fry said:


> S.
> 
> I prefer the method of buying her flowers


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## david thompson (Sep 18, 2014)

A water heater estimate will run about $75 for a written estimate, this way if they choose someone who wants to beat my price by 10% they'll potentially save $75 but ill at least get my fuel n time covered.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)




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## supakingDFW (Aug 19, 2014)

sierra2000 said:


> Not necessarily come together about pricing ourselves the same to where it's considered price fixing.
> More along the lines that requires us to take some simple classes when we get our license that shows us how to determine our seen and unseen overhead and how to use that to set correct selling rate. I think if we knew this coming out the gate we'd realize that there is a charge associated with getting that truck to a customers house that should be paid for by the customer and could be waived if the work is done.
> When I started out I had no clue on anything about charging for estimates, pricing or anything business.
> All I knew was I just passed the test so I'm qualified in the states eye to run a business and I was making $38 at the company I just left and had a decent living so if I charge double that on my own I can't loose!
> ...



In Texas they do something similar to what you're talking about...In January of this year they changed the requirements for a Master to be able to start a plumbing company. It's a 24 hour RMP (Responsible Master Plumber) class and it's essentially a business class...


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

sparky said:


> You can do this in a large populated area,but say in my small rural area that I did what you said about homer above,they would tell stand so who would tell sound so that I was a knowitall smart azz and before I know it the phone is silent.in this rural area you really have to walk on eggshells at times,wish I had an area similier to yours and a lot of others on here,but have to make best of it:yes:


I-know-right. Can't bring myself to live in the city again, though. Even during the darkest days of the Great Not-a-Depression Recession, I starved in the wood rather than live in the city.


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

*Why do you give free estimates? Reply to Thread*



supakingDFW said:


> In Texas they do something similar to what you're talking about...In January of this year they changed the requirements for a Master to be able to start a plumbing company. It's a 24 hour RMP (Responsible Master Plumber) class and it's essentially a business class...


They have had that requirement for 3 or 4 years now.


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## supakingDFW (Aug 19, 2014)

mytxplumber said:


> They have had that requirement for 3 or 4 years now.


Yep, you're right...went into effect Jan. 2012. I was thinking in my Master prep class that they were saying that rule was alot newer.


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## supakingDFW (Aug 19, 2014)

mytxplumber said:


> I do realize that I have several homes here and I own property in other countries to. I get to live in a nice shack too. Again what works for me might not be right for you. My way has served me nicely and will continue to do so. Sales are sales what ever business you are in. Your video had a guy coming in to ram a Sales at any cost program in, that is not for me. I prefer a soft touch and to listen to the customers. The first thing I learned in sales was you have to find your own style. Again different markets have different aspects to them. I have never thought that there was only one way to skin a cat. I have tried a lot of them over the years. My question was only to get people to discuss why are you going to for a free estimate? This is to get people in a discussion so other can learn through others experience. This is so all of us can take a look at what we are doing and maybe rethink things. I always welcomed new ideas and hearing from others in this trade it helps me to make more money over time. That should be what a forum like this is about. I find that sometimes here guys get the feathers ruffed if someone has a different opinion. I see guys here that don't want to post for fear of being burn at the stake. I do wish more guys here would take advantage of this forum to really talk about practice and profit generation more. That is really what this post is about. Anyone else that has a different opinion is welcomed to join in. Good luck guys...



I agree 100%...As a plumber who's about to venture out into the world of being a business owner instead of an employee, I absolutely welcome this kind of discussion. That's actually what draws me to this forum. I like knowing that I can discuss business practices and hear from other guys what has and hasn't worked for them over the years so that I can tailor my business practices to what works for me and maybe try some things I haven't even thought of...I always have and always will be friendly and welcoming to all the plumbers in my market. I feel that my success depends on it. You never know when you might need to rely on another company to help take care of a job that you may not have the time, manpower or equipment to handle in a sufficient manner for the customer. And if all you've ever done is bad mouth every other plumber and flip them off as they drive by, good luck finding someone to do that!...There's plenty of work out there for us all to be successful. It just depends on what you put into it. Because that's what you'll get out of it...I have customers who can't wait until I'm up and running officially because they like the honesty and integrity that I put into this trade. And hopefully down the line, that will serve me well...:thumbsup:


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