# No heat



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

This happen awhile back 

A landlord of a 20 unit apartment called me for a quote to repipe the entire lower floor of all piping and rads ..

He said he has two other companies go in and that the lower level of piping and rads were blocked ... There was no heat ...

So out of pure curiosity I had to go see this for myself ...

He shows me around and explains that both companies confirmed that he need to replace everything ...

Now I told him I have my doubts about that ...

The s35 pump seemed to be running ... So they told him it was the piping ...

So I told him I could tell you what's going on in 15 minutes or less ... Let me take the pump apart ... So he agreed 

This is what I found ...

The impeller broke off and wore the body of the pump right out .... Take a look at the picture ...

We saved this guy over $ 40,000 .... Of unneeded repairs ......


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## Relic (Sep 30, 2012)

wow can you say customer for life.


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

Relic said:


> wow can you say customer for life.


This! 

Those guys woulda' looked bad on hidden camera! :jester:


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

So if you charged him $4000 he still saved a whole bunch of money.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> This happen awhile back
> 
> A landlord of a 20 unit apartment called me for a quote to repipe the entire lower floor of all piping and rads ..
> 
> ...


That looks like the impeller been cavatation(sp) due to pump located on return side and pumping toward to expanison tank??


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

dclarke said:


> So if you charged him $4000 he still saved a whole bunch of money.


Shiot, it's Friday. He prolly charged him $8000.00:laughing:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Shiot, it's Friday. He prolly charged him $8000.00:laughing:


I don't remember ... What I charged this fellow ... I am sure it was lots ...just a s-35 complete is expensive ...

All I know we got all his properties because of this and never does he question the bill ...


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Oldschool that is an awesome tale. If only there were more like you out there. 

I get a little tired of hearing how companies rip people off, so its nice to know that you saved someone a ton of money through your knowledge and honesty.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Indie said:


> Oldschool that is an awesome tale. If only there were more like you out there.
> 
> I get a little tired of hearing how companies rip people off, so its nice to know that you saved someone a ton of money through your knowledge and honesty.


Actually when you think about it the biggest favor I did was for the other two plumbing companies ....

If they would have went ahead and did the job they suggested and it still didn't work .. I am sure the land lord would not pay the bill and would sue them for the cost of building repairs


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Actually when you think about it the biggest favor I did was for the other two plumbing companies ....
> 
> If they would have went ahead and did the job they suggested and it still didn't work .. I am sure the land lord would not pay the bill and would sue them for the cost of building repairs


Yes I am sure you are right about that !


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

a credit to the trade.i agree we need more like you honest and skilled.an amp draw would showed very low amps. great job


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

What?what? What was the cause of the impeller failure??


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Actually when you think about it the biggest favor I did was for the other two plumbing companies ....
> 
> If they would have went ahead and did the job they suggested and it still didn't work .. I am sure the land lord would not pay the bill and would sue them for the cost of building repairs



Somewhere along the line they would have figured it out and changed the pump. Surely there is a little room to move in a $40,000 quote.


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Indie said:


> Somewhere along the line they would have figured it out and changed the pump. Surely there is a little room to move in a $40,000 quote.


Actual why should a they have paid all that .somewhere along the line is BS sell if they need it.dont bend them over.again great job


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> What?what? What was the cause of the impeller failure??


The system is well over 30 years old ...

The impeller worn out and fell apart ... Eating a giant hole in the body


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

heeterman1 said:


> Actual why should a they have paid all that .somewhere along the line is BS sell if they need it.dont bend them over.again great job



I'm not defending or justifying the misdiagnosis but am instead saying that likely they would have covered themselves. Like save the pump change out till when the owner was offsite. Heck around here they would have figured out how to make an up-sell out of it. 

You ever hear of any contractor admitting to making a mistake? :laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Maybe the other guys didn't mis-diagnose it. Perhaps they are charlatans.


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

OldSchool said:


> The system is well over 30 years old ...
> 
> The impeller worn out and fell apart ... Eating a giant hole in the body


If it eat thru the volute it may be sized wrong you need to check the TDH.i have had that issue with booster systems and lift stations booth times pumps were sized wrong .worth research


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

yes i have heard of contractors admitting there areas.ill admit a lot wont.people are getting tired od getting screwed,and not enjoying a minute of it.can you say no repeat customers.myself i take great pride in my work.i dont BS PEOPLE


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> I don't remember ... What I charged this fellow ... I am sure it was lots ...just a s-35 complete is expensive ...
> 
> All I know we got all his properties because of this and never does he question the bill ...


How about upselling too a wet-rotor pump? Or is the system also dirty, muddy and an inky black sludge? :thumbsup:


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

I love how guys assume just because the pump motor is running that the impeller is spinning. Ive seen impellers broken off the shaft many times. The chance of a blocked heat loop are slim and easy to rule out just purge the loop. If water flows out its not blocked. If its a monoflow loop and one radiator is cold maybe its blocked or maybe airbound, once you figure out that the loops not blocked witch should take no more then ten min to figure out. And you still dont have hot return water its time to take that pump apart. Hydronic heat basics baby!


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

theplumbinator said:


> I love how guys assume just because the pump motor is running that the impeller is spinning. Ive seen impellers broken off the shaft many times. The chance of a blocked heat loop are slim and easy to rule out just purge the loop. If water flows out its not blocked. If its a monoflow loop and one radiator is cold maybe its blocked or maybe airbound, once you figure out that the loops not blocked witch should take no more then ten min to figure out. And you still dont have hot return water its time to take that pump apart. Hydronic heat basics baby!


What if the pump is turning which will take you ten minutes and you still have no heat? Whats next? It is also not airlocked or plugged!


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

theplumbinator said:


> I love how guys assume just because the pump motor is running that the impeller is spinning. Ive seen impellers broken off the shaft many times. The chance of a blocked heat loop are slim and easy to rule out just purge the loop. If water flows out its not blocked. If its a monoflow loop and one radiator is cold maybe its blocked or maybe airbound, once you figure out that the loops not blocked witch should take no more then ten min to figure out. And you still dont have hot return water its time to take that pump apart. Hydronic heat basics baby!


Thank for that answer I couldn't have said it better myself . Really i couldn't have . Who ever the other 2 jokers where they should stick to what they know which obviously isn't heating .


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

pilot light said:


> What if the pump is turning which will take you ten minutes and you still have no heat? Whats next? It is also not airlocked or plugged!


I guess the amount of time its going to take to figure out is going to depend on the length of the loop. Could be longer then ten min if its a huge building. I like using infared thermometer for diagnosing these problems. But if you purge the loop properly it will remove any air that could be stopping flow. I would also check if a flowcheck valve was sticking. If it had one.


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