# Really? That cheap?



## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

I picked this up at the supply house today.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

So, did his rich parents buy the tools for him? :laughing:


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Is this Home Depot?


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

This was at a local supply house near me.
After he pays for material, labor and taxes on what he made he has nothing left. WTF? On 65 feet he would make $2300. Then pay for the material and labor.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

sierra2000 said:


> This was at a local supply house near me.
> After he pays for material, labor and taxes on what he made he has nothing left. WTF? On 65 feet he would make $2300. Then pay for the material and labor.


Sounds like you could use him as a subcontractor and make a good bit of money off of him.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

There's a big difference between offering services and offering services done correctly. Hydrojet is 200....but what does that mean....total root removal or just a quick pass? Is it with a trailer jetter or with a little electric jetter? The camera is the same thing.....I've seen to many inspections that are BAD to the point where I think someone could get sued. My customers and I are quickly seeing that not all camera inspections are the same.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Phat Cat said:


> Sounds like you could use him as a subcontractor and make a good bit of money off of him.


Really. I should sell my equipment and just sub him out.


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## 4Aces Plumbing (Aug 26, 2011)

If he is just way under priced, but respectable quality, sub him out.. use and abuse him and his equipment while yours waits for it's day. Either he will be up to your prices eventually or gone. Cash in either way! Sorry if this post sounds cruel, but we are not here to make friends, we are here to make money.


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## 4Aces Plumbing (Aug 26, 2011)

slagger00 said:


> Oh, no! I can't afford it!:laughing:


Sorry bro, I must have missed your intro in the proper section..


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

slagger00 said:


> Oh, no! I can't afford it!:laughing:


...


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

On the bottom right corner of flier the "HOME" in the home plumbers looks awfully familiar, color and all!


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

Phat Cat said:


> Sounds like you could use him as a subcontractor and make a good bit of money off of him.


Looks like that's what he is advertising for - says pricing is for plumbers only on the bottom


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

$50 per foot for 4" subbed to plumbers is what I will shoot for. Maybe the number works for him but I can't see how, what's left over doesn't seem worth it unless you have a big crew and are working on volume. With all this competition out here I'm going to try to work on volume myself, but still make a decent and calculated profit.


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

How much does that type equipment cost? I have no idea. What does the liner cost? Or a pipe bursting machine?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> Really. I should sell my equipment and just sub him out.


 use him until he goes out of business then buy his equipment cheap.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm gonna sound super dumb here, but I've only ever done commercial construction and service.... What the heck is pipe bursting?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Flyout95 said:


> I'm gonna sound super dumb here, but I've only ever done commercial construction and service.... What the heck is pipe bursting?


There are a few different varieties. Static, pneumatic, pulling, pushing, and combinations of all the above.

This is a step-by-step for static pipe bursting:

Access a straight (or maybe one or two 45's depending on several factors) pipe at both ends. One end is the pulling pit for the hydraulic pulling machine and the other end is the entry pit for the new pipe.

Fish a cable or chain (depends on brand of equipment) through the existing sewer line.

One end of cable attached to the hydraulic pulling machine, the other end attached to a steel cone. 

Premeasured and assembled new pipe attached to the rear of of the cone. Usually HDPE or PVC is used for the new pipe.

Pulling machine pulls cone into pipe with new pipe in tow.

Cone is sized a little bigger than the i.d. of the existing pipe causing it to "burst" into the surrounding soil.

Remove pulling machine from pulling pit, remove cone from pipe, and attach new pipe to sewer riser and building stub out.

Backfill excavations at pulling pit and entry pit.

Argue with inspector that has no idea what he is looking at.

Get green tag.

Collect payment.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/pipe-bursting-through-manhole-24869/index4/

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/basement-pipe-burst-23686/

This is a great time for me to again give gratitude to johnlewismcleod and plumberman911 for their generous hard work and support during a very difficult weekend pipe burst at an office building.
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/pipe-bursting-pvc-23873/


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

.[Fish a cable or chain (depends on brand of equipment) through the existing sewer line./QUOTE]


How does this work when the old line has a belly in it..does the new line have the same belly.

Will you get settling in the trench.

Any good YouTube videos.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plungerboy said:


> How does this work when the old line has a belly in it..does the new line have the same belly.
> 
> Will you get settling in the trench.
> 
> Any good YouTube videos.


Depends on the depth and severity of the belly and the size of pipe. Nothing is black and white in trenchless. A million rules with a million exceptions for each.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

I received another postcard in the mail yesterday for $10 per foot with $500 minimum for pipe bursting. What's next, $7? Wholesale on the pipe must be what, $4-$5 per foot? I understand these are prices for other plumbers but for me, I quit doing work for other plumbers. Most plumbers who are looking to have this subbed out are on the same level as groupon and Angie's list customers, they want you to do it as cheap as possible while you take all the risk. 
I finally realized I was selling my lining jobs too cheap just to get jobs under my belt while just starting out. With the investment of the equipment and the risk of a liner going bad and having to warranty them, it's not worth it. 
I'm in a position where I don't need to get every job just to get them so now I price these jobs to make a profit and a little something more for the risk I take. If I don't get the job because I'm priced higher so be it. 
I think subbing this work out to other plumbers isn't worth it. Just my opinion.


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## LAsercut (Jul 19, 2015)

Yeah man the bursting prices we used to get(6months to a year ago) was $9 per foot with a minimum of 20' through the contractor we used to use, i always thought that was CRAZY cheap, but he was always happy to do it, and whats even weirder is he didnt work on volume(from what i could see) because it was just him and his son. But we stopped using him awhile back due to a conflict him and my boss got into. anyways its just CRAZY to me to invest that much money into the equipment and do it for so cheap, i just dont get it. And to answer a question from earlier in the thread, usually when there is a belly in the line i dont burst the line or line it, usually in that situation we dig it up, to risky to do a pull and realize that the new line is bellied. BUT that is also all situational just like all trenchless its ALL SITUATIONAL. Just really depends on a ton of factors that make the job a good contender for a bursting/lining job. Also ona sidenote has anyone other the cuda used or have a grundomat mole? And if so how do you like it and whats the cost of that system (pm me that info) . And also anyone have any experience with the spartan line splitter they sell? Drawbacks to that system? I see one right off the bat of, if you cant do a continuous pull on the cable, the stopping and starting of the pull must be really difficult and would want to just pull the old pipe out instead of splitting it. But thats my opinion without ever using that system.


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## Donahue756 (Feb 25, 2012)

Omg, lol, haha. Hope a customer doesn't see that :thumbsup:


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Donahue756 said:


> Omg, lol, haha. Hope a customer doesn't see that :thumbsup:


 No ****! People should think before posting bull**** prices online. For every bottom dollar a-hole there are 5 companies killing it. Ignore the bottom feeders guys, they won't be around to warranty their work so what value do they really offer.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> No ****! People should think before posting bull**** prices online. For every bottom dollar a-hole there are 5 companies killing it. Ignore the bottom feeders guys, they won't be around to warranty their work so what value do they really offer.


Why are prices that are different then yours considered bottom dollar?


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

gear junkie said:


> Why are prices that are different then yours considered bottom dollar?


 Did you miss the title of the thread?


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

gear junkie said:


> Why are prices that are different then yours considered bottom dollar?


 Don't you know that anybody charging less than you is a hack and anybody charging more is ripping people off? 

In all seriousness though, I don't have prices for these services because I've never bid or performed underground work. The title of the thread suggest that they are clearly undercharging.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I think people forget that Google crawls this site and displays pages in their search results. You could very easily have one of your own potential customers search "cost per foot to replace sewer line". Keep in mind this is just one example of dozens of different ways a potential customer could search for pricing information. 

People search on Google for all kinds of different reasons, you have to keep in mind that some people may have already received a bid or two and just want to find out if that's a fair price. When you publish unrealistically low pricing information on PZ you are setting an expectation in the minds of the readers. 

I can't remember the stats but I've posted them here before. It's easy to feel like we are in a private discussion with likeminded plumbers across the country. If fact, "us plumbers" only makeup about 1% of the people that read our posts. Most users don't come to PZ and start browsing topics, they stumble on threads when researching a specific topic.


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## cevans (Jan 5, 2015)

I have yet to get into bursting or lining but I don't even replace roof drains that cheap


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

Those prices

Part of my business does work for plumbers, I increased my prices a while back and saw a drop in some clients that always cried about prices. However my good clients that appreciate quality work keep calling. 

I must say that around the area I've seen some post cards at the supply store as well. $10 for bursting. $30 for lining. My guess is maybe they have no workers comp, GL and are not licensed. I noticed some of the licensed companies around hire them as subs and they don't care about their insurance, license etc. The only thing they see is how cheap they get the work done for. I wonder what they do when they get audited by workers comp and GL.

But then again just the same as anyone can walk into the supply store and buy parts any hack can make a flyer and leave it there. The supply should only allow flyers with a lic. # on it

I just hope no one gets hurt at a job or something going bad. I like to see how it will turn out. Only then they will understand the importance of hiring someone with the right credentials. 

I've been to a few jobs where liners were not installed properly. These companies told the plumber sorry not our problem and left. I personally stand behind my work and if I screw up I fix it. 

Most of those flyers for bursting and lining that you find at the supply store at those prices have no lic. # Shame on you if you are a lic. plumber and you hire them.:whistling2:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

plumberkc said:


> I think people forget that Google crawls this site and displays pages in their search results. You could very easily have one of your own potential customers search "cost per foot to replace sewer line". Keep in mind this is just one example of dozens of different ways a potential customer could search for pricing information.
> 
> People search on Google for all kinds of different reasons, you have to keep in mind that some people may have already received a bid or two and just want to find out if that's a fair price. When you publish unrealistically low pricing information on PZ you are setting an expectation in the minds of the readers.
> 
> I can't remember the stats but I've posted them here before. It's easy to feel like we are in a private discussion with likeminded plumbers across the country. If fact, "us plumbers" only makeup about 1% of the people that read our posts. Most users don't come to PZ and start browsing topics, they stumble on threads when researching a specific topic.


There is another way of looking at it too! Consumers will see that low prices are frowned upon by professionals because the pros know that low prices usually mean inferior materials, unqualified labor, poor service, no warranty, dangerous conditions etc.

Too many pros. on here respecting the trade for any homeowner to walk away thinking the pros. are ripping them off.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

If consumers are searching that deep into your price, you probably lost already.

400,000,000 people in the U.S. and a little bit more worldwide and this thread has 2,000 views.

I think your secrets are safe.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

You don't need the type of customers who are looking for tips on sites like this. They'll be nothing but a pain in the butt after they realize despite all the free tips they still need to call a plumber to bail them out.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

sierra2000 said:


> You don't need the type of customers who are looking for tips on sites like this. They'll be nothing but a pain in the butt after they realize despite all the free tips they still need to call a plumber to bail them out.


I used to get torqued out of shape. Really torqued. Then eventually I came to two conclusions:


1. They were never going to be our customer and, 

2. Even though they figured something out with some online advice, the day would come that they will have to call a plumber. (I am hoping Karma is around on that day. ).


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I get upset when I do piddly jobs for clients, then they go with somebody else for their water heater.


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