# Research center...



## Flyout95

Medical research center, lead and oakum, copper DWV, polypropylene acid waste, over 26000 fixtures.


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## leakfree

Are they going to sleeve those pan decks,or core?


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## Flyout95

leakfree said:


> Are they going to sleeve those pan decks,or core?


Core.


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## Rando

26,000 fixtures? Holy crap, How is that even possible?


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## Flyout95

Rando said:


> 26,000 fixtures? Holy crap, How is that even possible?


Lab sinks, water closets everywhere, bottle fillers, de-ionized water... It adds up.


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## 422 plumber

Need a 50 year old ball of complaints?


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## Burner tech

I do work for one research center, and two labs making medical grade products. The amount of plumbing they can have is insane.


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## Flyout95

422 plumber said:


> Need a 50 year old ball of complaints?


Haha! There are enough complainers on this job. They don't like that when we get rain outs I go prefab, and they go home.


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## 422 plumber

I was the king of rainouts! The only reason I work 3 days a week is because my wife makes me.


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## alberteh

26000!!!!

wow


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## sparky

422 plumber said:


> I was the king of rainouts! The only reason I work 3 days a week is because my wife makes me.


I can draw a rain turtle with the best of them,2 drops hit it and we head home


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## SchmitzPlumbing

lead and oakum, copper dwv? not here that was 40 years ago i would be a bad plumber by your rules my old boss always said you new plumbers only know how to use hoses and hose clamps (pex and pvc) you could never do a horizontal lead joint. i never saw it done always asked him to show me how he died 5 years ago still dont know how


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## plumbdrum

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> lead and oakum, copper dwv? not here that was 40 years ago i would be a bad plumber by your rules my old boss always said you new plumbers only know how to use hoses and hose clamps (pex and pvc) you could never do a horizontal lead joint. i never saw it done always asked him to show me how he died 5 years ago still dont know how


Ahhh Little Flusher, so much to learn.

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## plumbdrum

Flyout95 said:


> Medical research center, lead and oakum, copper DWV, polypropylene acid waste, over 26000 fixtures.


Some real plumbing. Getr done!!!

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## Flyout95

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> lead and oakum, copper dwv? not here that was 40 years ago i would be a bad plumber by your rules my old boss always said you new plumbers only know how to use hoses and hose clamps (pex and pvc) you could never do a horizontal lead joint. i never saw it done always asked him to show me how he died 5 years ago still dont know how


I'll take a video for you.


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## Flyout95

No lift yet, so everything gets roped up by hand. Trimbled over 2000 bang-it's and 600 cores so far. Up to the 3rd floor, 3 more to go. Lift comes Wednesday.


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## Flyout95

Some more updates. 

Blue flags mark our bang it's.


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## Flyout95

Finally.


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## BC73RS

I'm following this with interest, damn they always have to spray the "Q-Deck" and columns first.
Q-Deck is what I call it... anyway good stuff.


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## Flyout95

Basement pour stArted. Trench drains boxed out. Underground completely finished... Barring a snapped riser.


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## Redwood

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> lead and oakum, copper dwv? not here that was 40 years ago i would be a bad plumber by your rules my old boss always said you new plumbers only know how to use hoses and hose clamps (pex and pvc) *you could never do a horizontal lead joint. i never saw it done always asked him to show me how he died 5 years ago still dont know how*


Have you got a Joint Runner, & Caulking Irons?


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## plbgbiz

Flyout95 said:


> I'll take a video for you.


Post an upside down joint while you're at it. :thumbup:


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## Flyout95

Started the storm drains today.


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## Leach713

Does your company dobthe work or do they sub out?


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## Flyout95

Leach713 said:


> Does your company dobthe work or do they sub out?


We do the work. Why wouldn't we?


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## plbgbiz

You get a new rope for every joint? :laughing:

I've never seen one that clean in a supply house, much less on the job. :thumbup:


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## Leach713

Flyout95 said:


> We do the work. Why wouldn't we?


Well it seems that a lot shop around here that get big work like that sub out .


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## plbgbiz

Leach713 said:


> Well it seems that a lot shop around here that get big work like that sub out .


Flyout IS the big shop.


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## Leach713

I need to move from Texas lol


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## plumbdrum

As much as I love seeing packed joints, does your stat not allow no hub?

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## plumbdrum

plumbdrum said:


> As much as I love seeing packed joints, does your stat not allow no hub? Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Oppps State

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## Flyout95

plumbdrum said:


> As much as I love seeing packed joints, does your stat not allow no hub? Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Cook county, Chicago. They don't allow it, most other areas do.


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## leakfree

Having that large ladel makes those 6" and up joints lot's easier to pour doesn't it.Too many shops don't have them and it sucks doing double pours with a small one,especially if your up in the air.


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## Flyout95

leakfree said:


> Having that large ladel makes those 6" and up joints lot's easier to pour doesn't it.Too many shops don't have them and it sucks doing double pours with a small one,especially if your up in the air.


That's the medium ladle. We have an even bigger one, it's barely manageable with the weight and size.


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## Flyout95

Some more pics. 

Hanging 12" two lifts and a chain fall for safety. A lot of hammer swinging. But still a few Trimble breaks.


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## Leach713

Flyout95 said:


> Some more pics. Hanging 12" two lifts and a chain fall for safety. A lot of hammer swinging. But still a few Trimble breaks.


What the weight on one of those fittings and pipe?


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## Flyout95

Leach713 said:


> What the weight on one of those fittings and pipe?


12"x10' pipe - 375lbs
12" wye - 175lbs
12" 1/8th bend (45*) - 65lbs 
12" cleanout - 16lbs
Plus about 45lbs of lead...

That's what I'm taking the picture with...

So about 676lbs...


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## Leach713

Flyout95 said:


> 12"x10' pipe - 375lbs 12" wye - 175lbs 12" 1/8th bend (45*) - 65lbs 12" cleanout - 16lbs Plus about 45lbs of lead... That's what I'm taking the picture with... So about 676lbs...



Whistles**
That beast!

And how long did it take to hang all that?


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## Flyout95

Leach713 said:


> Whistles** That beast! And how long did it take to hang all that?


Takes about 20 minutes to pack one joint. 

We got about 70 feet, and 7 fittings in 2 days. But I was called away to Trimble a few times... Soo... But it's a slow process. You rush and make a mistake... It's not something you can just cut out real quick. That and it can burn you, bruise you, break you, and kill you.


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## MattZone

Looks real good, Great work Mike!


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## Ptturner91

In ontario no one does this anymore! But that's a skill forsure ! 
No pvc glue joints, no MJ bands, you can't afford to make a mistake on lead joints
Good for you man looks awesome


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## Flyout95

And the exterior.


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## UA22PLumber

Curious....do you guys pre-fab poured joints? We never have, I was wondering how they would hold up with all the handling...


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## plbgbiz

After reviewing Fly's photos, I don't think I'm qualified to unload his tools, much less hang on one of his jobs. You big pipe fellas are pretty impressive.

Nice work Fly!


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## Flyout95

UA22PLumber said:


> Curious....do you guys pre-fab poured joints? We never have, I was wondering how they would hold up with all the handling...


Yeah. Pack, pour, caulk, and bring a pig of lead to make adjustments.


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## Flyout95

plbgbiz said:


> After reviewing Fly's photos, I don't think I'm qualified to unload his tools, much less hang on one of his jobs. You big pipe fellas are pretty impressive. Nice work Fly!


Anyone can do it. Just gotta brink your spare back.


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## 422 plumber

How big of lead hammer do you need to tweak 12"? My little popcan hammer wouldn't do much there.

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## Best Darn Sewer

Flyout95 said:


> Started the storm drains today.


Great photos. I saved them for my code class being we dont ever do lead joints here. It would be ty-seal or no-hubs only here. Its really cool that y'all still do that. Maintain a dying art.


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## CT18

Fly, Is Great Lakes on that job.


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## Flyout95

CT18 said:


> Fly, Is Great Lakes on that job.


No sir, a lot of their guys are jumping ship. Guess they are slow


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## Flyout95

UA22PLumber said:


> Curious....do you guys pre-fab poured joints? We never have, I was wondering how they would hold up with all the handling...


Pre fabbed this bad boy up. Last stick, 1/16th bend, into a short sweep, with an 12x8 reducer out the top. No issues, except rolling it up onto the riser that is stubbed down. Cause it's 600 pounds. 

But it works as long as you swing your hammer like a man and pack the joint.


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## Flyout95

422 plumber said:


> How big of lead hammer do you need to tweak 12"? My little popcan hammer wouldn't do much there. Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I just use a pig of lead and swing it like a man.


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## Flyout95

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Great photos. I saved them for my code class being we dont ever do lead joints here. It would be ty-seal or no-hubs only here. Its really cool that y'all still do that. Maintain a dying art.


Use all the photos you want.


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## plbgbiz

Flyout95 said:


> Pre fabbed this bad boy up. Last stick, 1/16th bend, into a short sweep, with an 12x8 reducer out the top. No issues, except rolling it up onto the riser that is stubbed down. Cause it's 600 pounds.
> 
> But it works as long as you swing your hammer like a man and pack the joint.


hrmph...now you're just showin' off. :laughing::thumbup:


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## Flyout95

plbgbiz said:


> hrmph...now you're just showin' off. :laughing::thumbup:


They asked! If I was showing off I'd take a video of me stirring the lead pot shirtless.


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## Leach713

Flyout95 said:


> They asked! If I was showing off I'd take a video of me stirring the lead pot shirtless.


Lmao I don't think any one wants to see you shirtsless big dog


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## Flyout95

plbgbiz said:


> After reviewing Fly's photos, I don't think I'm qualified to unload his tools, much less hang on one of his jobs. You big pipe fellas are pretty impressive.
> 
> Nice work Fly!



and it's not MY job. It's the General Foreman's job. I'm just a lead guy for the storm crew right now, but the rumor I heard today is that I might move up to Sub-Foreman for the floor. I guess they are hiring 7-10 guys for just the basement.


We'll see. I'd like to get started running work, and not just being the lead, but, you've got to start somewhere.


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## SchmitzPlumbing

i wished you lived closer to me. looked at a job today, roof drain leaking. 5" cast lead joint leaking from roof drain. they do not want to replace roof drain. i said sorry i do not know how to re do lead joints so i i am not your man. you have to know when to say no. but like i said before, i love seeing your work. keep up with this dying part of the trade. there will always be a need for for techs like you. :thumbsup:


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## Flyout95

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i wished you lived closer to me. looked at a job today, roof drain leaking. 5" cast lead joint leaking from roof drain. they do not want to replace roof drain. i said sorry i do not know how to re do lead joints so i i am not your man. you have to know when to say no. but like i said before, i love seeing your work. keep up with this dying part of the trade. there will always be a need for for techs like you. :thumbsup:


You should have just re-caulked it with a chisel!


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## plumbdrum

Fly is right, the finish product should look like an inverted V. Much easier with the correct irons, but a chisel will work

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## Flyout95

plumbdrum said:


> Fly is right, the finish product should look like an inverted V. Much easier with the correct irons, but a chisel will work Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


When a joint is leaking, I criscross pattern with with a cold chisel all the way around. Sometimes I find that it works better packing the first time with and inside outside.


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## leakfree

Flyout95 said:


> When a joint is leaking, I criscross pattern with with a cold chisel all the way around. Sometimes I find that it works better packing the first time with and inside outside.


Had the pleasure of stack testing a 4 story bldg. last month,storm and sanitary.We did have some leaks and found that the majority of them were caused by the improper use/method with the irons.Most of the leaks were on joints where you could see that only a wide packing iron had been used on the center of the lead,lots of them sealed up by just going around the joint with an inside/outside iron,a few got burned out and redone.I'm sure there are lot's of plumbers out there who have never had to test their lead work and may just be repeating bad habits over the years.


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## mtfallsmikey

Flyout95 said:


> When a joint is leaking, I criscross pattern with with a cold chisel all the way around. Sometimes I find that it works better packing the first time with and inside outside.


Where's your driving irons? Still have all of my stuff, including the offset yarning irons, and my joint runners, but they are not white... :laughing:


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## Flyout95

mtfallsmikey said:


> Where's your driving irons? Still have all of my stuff, including the offset yarning irons, and my joint runners, but they are not white... :laughing:


We got about 70 brand new ropes for this job. 

And I've got ALL the irons. Just find the chisel works best.


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## Flyout95

A little acid waste, a nice break from the cast iron.


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## Leach713

Flyout95 said:


> A little acid waste, a nice break from the cast iron.


What is that material made of? 
I was once told glass was used for acid waste too


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## Flyout95

Leach713 said:


> What is that material made of? I was once told glass was used for acid waste too


Polypropylene. 

Glass still is used from time to time in certain applications. 

Cutting it is an awesome art.


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## Fast fry

What's up with that black unistrut hanging there ? Is that stuff coated or is that the colour urs comes?


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## plbgbiz

Fast fry said:


> What's up with that black unistrut hanging there ? Is that stuff coated or is that the colour urs comes?


That might be green. That is pretty common around here.


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## mtfallsmikey

How much is a bar of lead these days?


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## Flyout95

mtfallsmikey said:


> How much is a bar of lead these days?


I believe 12 bucks for a 15 lbs.


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## mtfallsmikey

Flyout95 said:


> I believe 12 bucks for a 15 lbs.


Guess that's not bad, been years since I bought any. Will you still be able to do lead joints when the building is closed in?


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## Flyout95

mtfallsmikey said:


> Guess that's not bad, been years since I bought any. Will you still be able to do lead joints when the building is closed in?


Yeah, the union would have us drink it if it meant market control.


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## Flyout95

View from the top.


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## SchmitzPlumbing

how long until california outlaws lead joints. that drain water just might come in contact with the lead and kill everyone and contaminate the treatment plants:laughing:


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## wyrickmech

Leach713 said:


> What is that material made of? I was once told glass was used for acid waste too


there is several types of acid waist pipping duriron wich is glass and cast iron blown together. There is glass which is a lot of fun at times but tricky. There is several variations of plastic pipe ,mechanical joints and fusible joints. About the time you think you have used them all they will come out with something new. The pipe in the photos is extremely well thought out and neat,good job. Looks like Orin's ,the last time I had the joy of running some of that it was with a iron. Fusing that stuff sucked if you made a mistake it was a half day deal just to correct it.


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## mtfallsmikey

Reason I asked about pouring lead indoors was I thought that was prohibited under OSHA, would have to look in my book.


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## Flyout95

mtfallsmikey said:


> Reason I asked about pouring lead indoors was I thought that was prohibited under OSHA, would have to look in my book.


It depends on exposure amounts. The melted lead doesn't meet the inhalation risk requirements. I forget the numbers, but there was some science behind it.


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## red_devil

I cant believe you didnt sleeve all those penetrations. The amount of money saved from sleeving vs. coring. Plus if you have BIM/ installation/ a gps, its childs play. Especially on Q-Deck. If you could use hilti sleeves, even easier.


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## Flyout95

red_devil said:


> I cant believe you didnt sleeve all those penetrations. The amount of money saved from sleeving vs. coring. Plus if you have BIM/ installation/ a gps, its childs play. Especially on Q-Deck. If you could use hilti sleeves, even easier.


We own the coring company.
So the cost of trimbling the sleeves, cutting and mounting too the deck is effectively balanced out. Plus by coring, we can verify we are 100% with in the walls. Avoiding patching the deck.


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## Flyout95

First of the prefab carrier groups are going in.


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## Ptturner91

Flyout95 said:


> First of the prefab carrier groups are going in.


Is that white on the pipes insulation? You are even prefabbing it with insulation?


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## Flyout95

Ptturner91 said:


> Is that white on the pipes insulation? You are even prefabbing it with insulation?


Yes it is. Anything to save a nickel.


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## Ptturner91

Flyout95 said:


> Yes it is. Anything to save a nickel.


That's so smart

How do you like doing prefab ?


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## Flyout95

Ptturner91 said:


> That's so smart How do you like doing prefab ?


I got pulled to work on the field. 

So now I'm installing the prefab I built. It's cool, but the underground here was done by a few lazy guys, so there is a lot of "close enough"


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## Ptturner91

Flyout95 said:


> I got pulled to work on the field. So now I'm installing the prefab I built. It's cool, but the underground here was done by a few lazy guys, so there is a lot of "close enough"


Oh man that sucks 

You prefer prefab over doing it at site?


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## Flyout95

Ptturner91 said:


> Oh man that sucks You prefer prefab over doing it at site?


As long as I'm working... I would do it in hell.


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## luv2plum

Looks really good. Is the insulation vinyl clad also? Here typically vinyl only goes on exposed piping. All the in wall stuff gets fiberglass with vapor barrier and the white laps or foil tape. Vinyl always looks better though!


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## Flyout95

luv2plum said:


> Looks really good. Is the insulation vinyl clad also? Here typically vinyl only goes on exposed piping. All the in wall stuff gets fiberglass with vapor barrier and the white laps or foil tape. Vinyl always looks better though!


This is all inwall.


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## Ptturner91

I wonder how much just the plumbing is costing this building


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## wyrickmech

Flyout95 said:


> I got pulled to work on the field. So now I'm installing the prefab I built. It's cool, but the underground here was done by a few lazy guys, so there is a lot of "close enough"


 I have seen this done where they mount it all on angle iron rails then just bolt it in place. Do you do it that way too or do you bolt carriers directly? Looks good!


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## Flyout95

Ptturner91 said:


> I wonder how much just the plumbing is costing this building


5 million. 

What stinks is we have a 12 million dollar job that just got going. I'd like to get on that.


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## Flyout95

wyrickmech said:


> I have seen this done where they mount it all on angle iron rails then just bolt it in place. Do you do it that way too or do you bolt carriers directly? Looks good!


That's the way I brought up, but they decided on this. They are full of water from the test still , so no leaks.... Yet.


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## Flyout95

Some more mounted, and glass going in.


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## TC27

Flyout95 said:


> 5 million.



Less than $200 per fixture? Doesn't sound right.


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## Flyout95

TC27 said:


> Less than $200 per fixture? Doesn't sound right.


27000 fixture openings.


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## Ptturner91

Flyout95 said:


> 27000 fixture openings.


So 185 a fixture?

Is your price just for rough in ?


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## Flyout95

Ptturner91 said:


> So 185 a fixture? Is your price just for rough in ?


Not sure the price per. Some sinks have 2 waste opening, and 4 supply opening. Waste, acid waste, pure water, hot, cold, de-ionized.


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## Ptturner91

Flyout95 said:


> Not sure the price per. Some sinks have 2 waste opening, and 4 supply opening. Waste, acid waste, pure water, hot, cold, de-ionized.


But that 5 million is just for rough in right? Your not supplying the fixtures with that quote are you?


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## Leach713

Ptturner91 said:


> But that 5 million is just for rough in right? Your not supplying the fixtures with that quote are you?


I'm pretty sure that every thing ,ground ,top out and trim


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## sparky

Flyout95 said:


> Cook county, Chicago. They don't allow it, most other areas do.


What about the hub gaskets in place of the lead/oakum??would they not allow those??


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## sparky

Flyout95 said:


> Takes about 20 minutes to pack one joint.
> 
> We got about 70 feet, and 7 fittings in 2 days. But I was called away to Trimble a few times... Soo... But it's a slow process. You rush and make a mistake... It's not something you can just cut out real quick. That and it can burn you, bruise you, break you, and kill you.


Yes,this type of work you have to take your time and do your best to make it right the first time,mistakes in this kind of plbing/piping are very time consuming


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## sparky

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i wished you lived closer to me. looked at a job today, roof drain leaking. 5" cast lead joint leaking from roof drain. they do not want to replace roof drain. i said sorry i do not know how to re do lead joints so i i am not your man. you have to know when to say no. but like i said before, i love seeing your work. keep up with this dying part of the trade. there will always be a need for for techs like you. :thumbsup:


Just put some silicone or wax ring on it that take care of it


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## sparky

Flyout95 said:


> We own the coring company.
> So the cost of trimbling the sleeves, cutting and mounting too the deck is effectively balanced out. Plus by coring, we can verify we are 100% with in the walls. Avoiding patching the deck.


Absolutely correct,I have done it both ways and coring after the pour is the way to go imo


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## 422 plumber

sparky said:


> What about the hub gaskets in place of the lead/oakum??would they not allow those??


No. Some places in Cook County they still make you use clay tile.


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## justme

Leach713 said:


> I'm pretty sure that every thing ,ground ,top out and trim


That's more than a 5 million dollar job, I've bid a 800,000 dollar jobs with pvc and copper . That job has to be close to 10 to 12 million or more


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## Leach713

justme said:


> That's more than a 5 million dollar job, I've bid a 800,000 dollar jobs with pvc and copper . That job has to be close to 10 to 12 million or more


He did say 5mill
How exactly are new construction jobs bid


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## Ptturner91

Yeah I don't know how people don't loose there shirts on bidding for new construction


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## Flyout95

I'll find out the exact number tomorrow. 

Or the ball park number.


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## Flyout95

justme said:


> That's more than a 5 million dollar job, I've bid a 800,000 dollar jobs with pvc and copper . That job has to be close to 10 to 12 million or more


5.5 million.


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## sparky

Ptturner91 said:


> Yeah I don't know how people don't loose there shirts on bidding for new construction


there is a set formula that they use that just about covers everything,you take all your materials,laber,all other expenses like office workers,add taxes and insurance and licenses,then add what percentage profit you want to make on that job.it can be complicated to say the least and is not an exact science fer sure:blink:


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## Flyout95

The guy who bid this job was let go shortly after the bid was accepted. I guess this is a little low.


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## wyrickmech

Flyout95 said:


> The guy who bid this job was let go shortly after the bid was accepted. I guess this is a little low.


 yes 1200 to 2500 per fixture if not more. Figure that one. Still a good looking job.


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## sparky

Flyout95 said:


> The guy who bid this job was let go shortly after the bid was accepted. I guess this is a little low.


yes,the company would have made more money had it not gotten the job,they are gonna take a beating on this one,the kind of work this job requires means you bid it at the higher end of the spectrum,but it should have been so much lower than all the other bids that red flags went up right away with the architects.or maybe they only got one bid,your companies.


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## sparky

Flyout95 said:


> The guy who bid this job was let go shortly after the bid was accepted. I guess this is a little low.


way way to low,sorry but doubt there will be any bonuses after the fact


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## Flyout95

sparky said:


> way way to low,sorry but doubt there will be any bonuses after the fact


I don't get bonuses anyway.


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## Flyout95

sparky said:


> yes,the company would have made more money had it not gotten the job,they are gonna take a beating on this one,the kind of work this job requires means you bid it at the higher end of the spectrum,but it should have been so much lower than all the other bids that red flags went up right away with the architects.or maybe they only got one bid,your companies.


Thanks for the lesson.


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## justme

27,000 fixture openings and 5,500,000 and your doing poured lead joints with copper drains, vent and water . Wow , do you work for a union company?


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## Flyout95

justme said:


> 27,000 fixture openings and 5,500,000 and your doing poured lead joints with copper drains, vent and water . Wow , do you work for a union company?


Yup.


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## Leach713

justme said:


> 27,000 fixture openings and 5,500,000 and your doing poured lead joints with copper drains, vent and water . Wow , do you work for a union company?


Is that a good thing or bad????


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## plbgbiz

sparky said:


> there is a set formula that they use that just about covers everything,you take all your materials,laber,all other expenses like office workers,add taxes and insurance and licenses,then add what percentage profit you want to make on that job.it can be complicated to say the least and is not an exact science fer sure:blink:


That's not complicated at all. It sounds exactly like what I do for my budget all the time. It's just numbers.

Determining how long a job of that magnitude will take? Now that might keep me up at night. :yes:


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## wyrickmech

justme said:


> 27,000 fixture openings and 5,500,000 and your doing poured lead joints with copper drains, vent and water . Wow , do you work for a union company?


probably a target job.


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## CT18

Generally you will get called in if your bid is way out of bounds. The general or the customer for the most part don't want you to have to fold up your shop because you were off a few mil. I worked for a union shop here in Michigan that is a notorious low bidder and has been called in several times to double check his numbers were correct and nothing was missed. I see now a days everyone is bidding things tight and trying to get there money on extras, at least around here.


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## 422 plumber

CT18 said:


> Generally you will get called in if your bid is way out of bounds. The general or the customer for the most part don't want you to have to fold up your shop because you were off a few mil. I worked for a union shop here in Michigan that is a notorious low bidder and has been called in several times to double check his numbers were correct and nothing was missed. I see now a days everyone is bidding things tight and trying to get there money on extras, at least around here.


We just bid a school remodel job and were the 2nd lowest bidder. The low bidder figured it using PVC DWV, and the it was spec'ed for cast. He was called in and told he could withdraw his bid, but he didn't. I guarantee corners will be cut to make up that difference.


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## plbgbiz

422 plumber said:


> We just bid a school remodel job and were the 2nd lowest bidder. The low bidder figured it using PVC DWV, and the it was spec'ed for cast. He was called in and told he could withdraw his bid, but he didn't. I guarantee corners will be cut to make up that difference.


That is scary. It's like volunteering to poke yourself in the eye....repeatedly.


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## sparky

422 plumber said:


> We just bid a school remodel job and were the 2nd lowest bidder. The low bidder figured it using PVC DWV, and the it was spec'ed for cast. He was called in and told he could withdraw his bid, but he didn't. I guarantee corners will be cut to make up that difference.


That guy made biggiest mistake of his life,cast is double or triple what pvc costs,he must be slow and have plenty of money


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## sparky

422 plumber said:


> We just bid a school remodel job and were the 2nd lowest bidder. The low bidder figured it using PVC DWV, and the it was spec'ed for cast. He was called in and told he could withdraw his bid, but he didn't. I guarantee corners will be cut to make up that difference.


Yes you are so right,alot of companies are bidding at cost and minimum profit and pray they make it back on extas,and they do,there are tons of extras on big jobs


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## jmc12185

sparky said:


> Yes you are so right,alot of companies are bidding at cost and minimum profit and pray they make it back on extas,and they do,there are tons of extras on big jobs


 Pricing a job low in hopes to make it up on extras is terrible business. Especially on a bigger job, it is quite a gamble. It's sort of like counting your chickens before they hatch.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## sparky

jmc12185 said:


> Pricing a job low in hopes to make it up on extras is terrible business. Especially on a bigger job, it is quite a gamble. It's sort of like counting your chickens before they hatch.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I agree with ya,but if a company is slow and don't want to lose some good men they will sometimes do this just to keep the guys busy


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## Flyout95

We'll at least break even on this job. I know things are tight, but were getting catered lunch and company tshirts tomorrow.


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## CT18

Most larger jobs now a days will not even have design completed before the project starts, so the extras will be there. I am drawing a auto plant paint shop right now that we are doing 3D coordination on and the design meetings are still taking place. They basically bid a template and then make money with the extras over and above that template.

I can tell you that it is tough coordinating off a template then going back and trying to make the changes to my piping after the design is approved.


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## Flyout95

CT18 said:


> Most larger jobs now a days will not even have design completed before the project starts, so the extras will be there. I am drawing a auto plant paint shop right now that we are doing 3D coordination on and the design meetings are still taking place. They basically bid a template and then make money with the extras over and above that template. I can tell you that it is tough coordinating off a template then going back and trying to make the changes to my piping after the design is approved.


That must blow. This job was smooth, but the brickie moved in, and some how he is putting his walls in with no overhead, so we are scrambling on sleeves, but the ethnic brick layers can't understand when we tell them there is a sleeve. So there is going to be a lot of wall breaking.


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## Flyout95

Brick has arrived. 

Spent my day building this eye wash/shower station it is one of 12. And air testing the risers from the basement to level 5. 

Prefab is getting sunk on all floors now, and we just stubbed out our VTRs, and storm is piped to the penthouse.


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## leakfree

Flyout95 said:


> That must blow. This job was smooth, but the brickie moved in, and some how he is putting his walls in with no overhead, so we are scrambling on sleeves, but the ethnic brick layers can't understand when we tell them there is a sleeve. So there is going to be a lot of wall breaking.


Same thing happened to us,50 of them landed on site one day and walls started going up everywhere.Things slowed down a bit when he started his layout from his own lines and not the provided control lines and was told to start over because his layout didn't jive.Sleeves were an issue because I'm a little weak in my Polish,but they did manage to get in.


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## Flyout95

Here is that bathroom bricked up, 

and an acid sink with Tempered, Hot, cold, and pure water I piped today. Thing was a nightmare as there is also natural gas, oxygen, medical vacuum, and medical air fitting in at specific centers. And 3 outlets. This is all in an 8" block wall.


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## Flyout95

Still in the basement. Still battling the bricklayers.


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## david thompson

You get a new rope for every joint? 

I've never seen one that clean in a supply house, much less on the job.


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## Flyout95

david thompson said:


> You get a new rope for every joint? I've never seen one that clean in a supply house, much less on the job.


Nah, but we got a case of new ones at the start of this job. Most are still clean...


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## Flyout95

A few pics from today.


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## plumbdrum

Love that you guys are still packing and pouring joints, it's keeping a art form alive.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## budders

Thanks for the pics. Looks good. up here and mass we still do alot of pouring. But in new hampshire not so much.


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## Coolcanuck

I was in a lab building once. Called out for a leak, as I was walking in hazmat was walking out. Asked what was leaking and they told me they didn't know but be careful. I pulled back ceiling tiles and they supported the poly pipe at each joint, thing was sagged every where, glass traps everywhere. I called my boss and said the job wasn't for me, needed someone more qualified, man oh man. I was fresh in the trade at the time, what a mess. The only hubs I've done I packed and cold caulked, was cool listening for a toilet flush and waiting for the ploosh at the ground floor of a high rise. Everyone gets a free flush. Cool job fly, thanks for sharing what you do.


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## Flyout95

Mechanical room getting crowded....


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## dhal22

Flyout95 said:


> Mechanical room getting crowded....


Heaven on earth for a plumber. Put me on a hospital job and I'm the first person in the parking lot every morning.


David


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## CT18

Did they do 3D BIM coordination on that job. I did a 40 story for Great lakes back in 2010 and the mechanical room looked like 10 gallons of poop in a 5 gallon bucket. It went in nice because of 3D coordination and the skilled labor doing the install.


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## plbgbiz

That is one of the finest extension cord storage devices I have ever seen. :laughing:

As always, nice work Fly!


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## Flyout95

CT18 said:


> Did they do 3D BIM coordination on that job. I did a 40 story for Great lakes back in 2010 and the mechanical room looked like 10 gallons of poop in a 5 gallon bucket. It went in nice because of 3D coordination and the skilled labor doing the install.


Yeah, they did. Works great when the fitters aren't allowed to hang their low steam pipes before anyone else.


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## Flyout95

plbgbiz said:


> That is one of the finest extension cord storage devices I have ever seen. :laughing:
> 
> As always, nice work Fly!


Electricians.... am I right?


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## plbgbiz

Seriously, very good work as always. I was just making fun of the cords left hanging on your new valves.


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## Flyout95

plbgbiz said:


> Seriously, very good work as always. I was just making fun of the cords left hanging on your new valves.


I know. And thank you. How'd your garage go?


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## plbgbiz

Flyout95 said:


> I know. And thank you. How'd your garage go?


Still in the I-Hope-We-Get-The-Job stage.

It is a big one (for us) and the folks with the checkbook are still a little puckered from ticket shock.


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## Flyout95

Update on this job: 

Still going, down to 4 guys. 1 on trim, me and my partner finishing up the basement trench drains, and mechanical room and foreman.

Within a month or two, I'll have a new job to post about. We started a 20million dollar project at a college in the city of Chicago. Supposed to last till 2016-early 2017.


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## plbgbiz

Flyout95 said:


> Update on this job:
> 
> Still going, down to 4 guys. 1 on trim, me and my partner finishing up the basement trench drains, and mechanical room and foreman.
> 
> Within a month or two, I'll have a new job to post about. We started a 20million dollar project at a college in the city of Chicago. Supposed to last till 2016-early 2017.


You are on my bucket list Fly. Some day, I would love to have a guided tour of one of your jobs. If ever I am in the windy city long enough, I hope your circumstances allow for it.

A job that lasts over a week worries me to death. I cannot even begin to wrap my head around such a long term gig.


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## Plumbus

Fly
Rubbing shoulders with you makes us all stand tall. 
I'm curious. Does Cook County allow Durham waste and vent?


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## KoleckeINC

Plumbus said:


> Fly Rubbing shoulders with you makes us all stand tall. I'm curious. Does Cook County allow Durham waste and vent?


 You can screw pipe all the customers you want. I see medical buildings and rental properties still being done with screw pipe and cast fittings(Durham)


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## Flyout95

KoleckeINC said:


> You can screw pipe all the customers you want. I see medical buildings and rental properties still being done with screw pipe and cast fittings(Durham)


We did some at the Wrigley building. Not sure why it was spec'd


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## Shoot'N'Plumber

So I was In Vegas these past few days, and the hotel we were staying at was building two new 18 story towers. I was watching some of the work going on and thinking....even though this is some technical and hairy work, I'm sure it's nothing compared to what you and yur company handle.


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## CT18

I wonder if they are using a Sovent system in that one. We used it on the MGM hotel in Detroit. I think it gets used more often in multiple story hotels.


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## dhal22

I disagree with the Sovent system. Condo owners with a clogged drain are screwed. As in cut your neighbors wall out below you and attack the pipe full off sewage.


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## CT18

I have not heard much feed back on the system. The hotel i did for MGM was my one and only job drawing sovent.


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## Flyout95

So I went out on this job to certify the backflows. It's come a long way...


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