# Commercial Project in Philadelphia



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/0...grid10|htmlws-sb-bb|dl8|sec1_lnk3&pLid=159639




Bully union guys or greedy developers? You decide.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Hey union guys put down the signs and get to work. :whistling2:


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

Every person that does any skilled trade in philly must be licensed with L&I. These two guys hired a scumbag gc who in turn hired unlicensed subs. The job was shut down by L&I. We worked very hard to create high building trades standards in Philly, only to have it undermined by illegals working for peanuts I think not.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

davjowett said:


> Every person that does any skilled trade in philly must be licensed with L&I. These two guys hired a scumbag gc who in turn hired unlicensed subs. The job was shut down by L&I. We worked very hard to create high building trades standards in Philly, only to have it undermined by illegals working for peanuts I think not.


 
When you would rather pickett a job, than do the work, it shows your work ethics.


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm sure a lot of those guys would love to go to work. How can you compete with a company that pays a guy 8 bucks a hour cash. No taxes no as no healthcare. You think that those men have no "work ethic" because they won't work for slave wages. I'd like to call it self respect that they won't join the race to the bottom. Just to make sure I understand, you think it's ok unlicensed workers are performing work on this job or do just have a bug about unions.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I highly doubt they were paying 8 bucks an hour, they may not have been paying union wages. I think employeers should be able to pay what they want to, how can anyone tell someone how to run their business. They chose not to use union workers, therefore did not pay union wages.

The union workers had no problem causing destruction for free, I bet they normally get top dollar to handle asbestos, but they put it in the building for free. Seems like they are more than happy to race to the bottom.


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

There's no proof of any union member doing any of that, just a lot of accusations. I would even go as far as saying the owners could have had it planted there. It's really helps in court to get a injuction for no picketing when you Have these big bad "Union Thugs" trashing your building. And the pee bottles I think we all know who does that.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Seems like fake union thugs cause lots of problems on big non union jobs. Why would anyone pickett someone elses right to hire who they want?


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

Ok let me say this again. This job was shut down by the city because the people working were unlicensed. So you are saying its ok to work unlicensed in the name of free enterprise. "hire'm he don't got no license but he cheap, just think of all da monies we gone make on this fool"


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

davjowett said:


> Ok let me say this again. This job was shut down by the city because the people working were unlicensed. So you are saying its ok to work unlicensed in the name of free enterprise. "hire'm he don't got no license but he cheap, just think of all da monies we gone make on this fool"


 
How do I go about getting a painters license?


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

And just to be clear I have no problem with non-union tradesmen. I've worked side by side on jobs with some really sharp guys. That being said they were n-u guys making good money and they know why. I worked on a job with a non-union sparky, he said he loved the local electricians union. Why....because every time they negotiated a raise he got it too.


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

Although i was talking about skilled trades. Here ya go You wanna be a painter in Philly fill out the one that says contractors license. 

http://www.phila.gov/forms/index.html


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## PlumbThis1 (Apr 15, 2010)

I am not a die hard union guy, but I am a UA member. and in our area Union plumbers and pipe fitters are hands down the best at what they do. When it comes to large industrial jobs and big commercial buildings the UA worker shines. The training that is avaliable to through our training centers continues to be the best around. I am a registered Republican and in a union that I support on most issues. Training is key and the UA has that key....... Just my opinion.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

davjowett said:


> Although i was talking about skilled trades. Here ya go You wanna be a painter in Philly fill out the one that says contractors license.
> 
> http://www.phila.gov/forms/index.html


 
They were going to let the unions have 80% of the work. That was not good enough, they wanted all of it. My opinion is the union would rather see no work being done than to work beside non union guys.


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

Yes that's their story, then they hired unlicensed hacks. For a third time is that ok with you. I think it obvious you don't like unions, i do I chose to join when I filled out my application for apprenticeship it has kept me steadily employed for almost 7 years. How come the contractor i work for can pay me more than the union rate and is happy to do so and these guys cant pay their guys a third of that.There are three sides to every story and I know which one you believe as truth.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

The union wanted to control the job, but wanted to use someones elses money. That is where I have a problem. I agree union guys kick butt on new construction commercial jobs. The tactics that are many times used to get the jobs I have a problem with. This job is now shut down due to purely politics, and no one is working, well maybe the guys with the signs outside are "working".


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## court (Dec 14, 2011)

Union or not if they were hiring non-licensed guys to plumb they are screwing PLUMBERS! We are all plumbers Union or not. If you are a business owner or a plumber contractors like that are screwing all of us by hiring hacks like that! If that is allowed to happen over and over again ANY reputable plumbing business will struggle even more to get work! Being a trained and licensed plumber comes with a price no matter union or not. All these hacks are doing is costing the PLUMBER work! At least someone has the balls to stand up and scream about it. You are so anti-union you can't even see the problem.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

It's pretty clear to me that a developer can hire anyone he wants (within licensing guidelines, of course) if he's footing the bill.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

It would seem like a problem on both sides. We all know builder/developers want to make a maximum profit. Don't we all? Who says, "No, I don't want more money."? The answer is nobody. If your going to take a risk of nesting you want as big a return as possible. 

As for the union, it's well known the tactics that have been used over the years to get what they want. The biggest problem the union has is that so many of them have gone to far and pushed people to a breaking point. If it were feasible, reasonable, and profitable to use union labor then I think more people would be down for it. 

Far as I'm concerned, unions do a much better job of training and preparing a ready workforce, who can in fact produce great work. Unions also get tradesman much better compensation. If I had been making $45-50 an hour total compensation I would never have gone out on my own. 

But.....

When men form a group and feel they have some power, abusing it isn't far behind.


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

it looks like a big mess to me. Localy I know way too many union tradesmen, that are on the bench. We have large scale commercial projects going up in this area. Yet all the contractors are from out of state:furious:. That being said. I am not a big fan of unions. Not saying that they are bad. That saying that they are lacking on alot of levels in myarea


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

When men form a group and feel they have some power, abusing it isn't far behind.[/QUOTE]

ABSOLUTELY!


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

In my area all commercial and industrial work has to be done by a union company its law around here non union is a joke no 5-6 dollar a hour pension no medical no dental **** wages **** vacation pay all to make some fat lazy slob a pile of money **** that union for life last time a non union company tried to build a 60 unit apartment building in my area we burnt it to the ground flipped all there work trailers over and burnt that to

http://www.cardus.ca/comment/article/1949/nobody-was-seriously-injured

heres an article I found of what happens to non union guys in my area lol


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

When men form a company and feel they have some power, abusing it isn't far behind.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> In my area all commercial and industrial work has to be done by a union company its law around here non union is a joke no 5-6 dollar a hour pension no medical no dental **** wages **** vacation pay all to make some fat lazy slob a pile of money **** that union for life last time a non union company tried to build a 60 unit apartment building in my area we burnt it to the ground flipped all there work trailers over and burnt that to
> 
> http://www.cardus.ca/comment/article/1949/nobody-was-seriously-injured
> 
> heres an article I found of what happens to non union guys in my area lol


I don't know where to begin with you :no: Everyone has a right to work.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

playme1979 said:


> I don't know where to begin with you :no: Everyone has a right to work.


of course they do just stay off our turf of commercial/industrial work take all the residential and service work you want or join us we will glady accept anybody into the union that is a skilled tradesman


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> of course they do just stay off our turf of commercial/industrial work take all the residential and service work you want or join us we will glady accept anybody into the union that is a skilled tradesman


What makes it " YOUR TURF " ?


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> What makes it " YOUR TURF " ?


we were born and raised in this small town/city area where I live we have the right to be given a fair share of what is being charged out for us if you own a company and are charging 60+ dollaras an hour labour I as the tradesman deserve my fair share of it to have a good life to be able to have a nice home have a nice car/truck be able to have medical and dental care etc anybody who says they as a person dont deserve that is a liar


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I'll give a Big O' Texas *WOW* to this conversation.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> we were born and raised in this small town/city area where I live we have the right to be given a fair share of what is being charged out for us if you own a company and are charging 60+ dollaras an hour labour I as the tradesman deserve my fair share of it to have a good life to be able to have a nice home have a nice car/truck be able to have medical and dental care etc anybody who says they as a person dont deserve that is a liar


If a company is billing $60 an hour for your labor , what would you consider your fair share ?


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> I'll give a Big O' Texas *WOW* to this conversation.


We finally agree on something :yes:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> of course they do just stay off our turf of commercial/industrial work take all the residential and service work you want or join us we will glady accept anybody into the union that is a skilled tradesman


Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it say "Residential Plumber" under your name?


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## MacMech (Sep 15, 2011)

Who would want to join the union in Cape Breton? I guess if you had 25 bucks a month to throw away on non working dues it would be a great idea. 
Maybe if you guys were'nt so f****** crazy up there somebody besides the government would invest in a project there. 
Any plumber in CB thats sharper than a bag of wet hair is already in Fort Mcmurray making $2500 a week.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Let me start off by saying im a unoin contractor.

But.....

The posts of one person are no reflection of normal in the union plumbing world.

Anyone who commits vandalism or arson should be in a penitentiary.

What the hell.....

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

albacoreshuffle said:


> if a company is billing $60 an hour for your labor , what would you consider your fair share ?


 25-30$


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> How do I go about getting a painters license?


Serve another apprenticeship Tommy, in an unionized environment, I suggest...

:laughing:

http://www.iupat.on.ca/services_cat_21_painters.aspx


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

MacMech said:


> Who would want to join the union in Cape Breton? I guess if you had 25 bucks a month to throw away on non working dues it would be a great idea.
> Maybe if you guys were'nt so f****** crazy up there somebody besides the government would invest in a project there.
> Any plumber in CB thats sharper than a bag of wet hair is already in Fort Mcmurray making $2500 a week.


I work year round union in cb


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> I work year round union in cb


Given what you've posted so far in this thread; Would you consider it 'Poaching/Stealing' when you take Residential work away from Non-Union Plumbers?


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Given what you've posted so far in this thread; Would you consider it 'Poaching/Stealing' when you take Residential work away from Non-Union Plumbers?


 
I guess it would be, but in my area you can't even get a job unless your in the union


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> I guess it would be, but in my area you can't even get a job unless your in the union


 After you union guys ran off the non-union guys I would imagine so.

Say, how are your employment prospects doing up there now that you've run off anyone willing to create new jobs? Looks like you guys are still hovering around the 9% -- Down from 9.5% this time last year.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> After you union guys ran off the non-union guys I would imagine so.
> 
> Say, how are your employment prospects doing up there now that you've run off anyone willing to create new jobs? Looks like you guys are still hovering around the 9% -- Down from 9.5% this time last year.


 
you talk like theres 1 million people around here theres last the 1000 plumbers in my union half of which are in alberta if not more


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> you talk like theres 1 million people around here theres last the 1000 plumbers in my union half of which are in alberta if not more


What does that have to do with riding non union professional Tradesmen out of town on a rail and putting the fear of Gawd into industries considering creating jobs in your little slice of paradise?

I'll tell you what, Sydney and Cape Breton would be at the bottom of my list if I were looking for locations to build or set up manufacturing facilities.

From what you've said and from what I've read, you guys deserve the highest unemployment rate in all of Canada.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Like I said before is we will take anybody into the union we just don't allow non union around here ill tell you why because we deserve our fair share of the pie we are the ones who do the work just because your a non union plumber who owns his own buisness you dont like it if you have workers making more money then you think they should you sir are very greedy


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> Like I said before is we will take anybody into the union we just don't allow non union around here ill tell you why because *we deserve our fair share of the pie* we are the ones who do the work just because your a non union plumber who owns his own buisness you dont like it if you have workers making more money then you think they should *you sir are very greedy*



Now that's funny. Lots of money, no risk. Man this union thing is looking better all the time.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> Like I said before is we will take anybody into the union we just don't allow non union around here ill tell you why because we deserve our fair share of the pie we are the ones who do the work


You get the work (what work there is) because you run the other folks out of town.

Good luck in encouraging further development and manufacturing jobs.

BTW, your coal industry (what made Cape Breton) is on its last legs.

I predict double digit unemployment in your future.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

WOW not reflecting this union plumbers thoughts either!

There are good and bad on both sides! Right now the pension in my area is so  up i will prolly never see one! A 401k looks better all the time!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

deerslayer said:


> WOW not reflecting this union plumbers thoughts either!
> 
> There are good and bad on both sides! Right now the pension in my area is so  up i will prolly never see one! A 401k looks better all the time!


Yea, you'll do well when Bain Pumps & Dumps some stock into your 401K portfolio... :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> What makes it " YOUR TURF " ?


Come on you know the answer... :laughing:


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

deerslayer said:


> WOW not reflecting this union plumbers thoughts either!
> 
> There are good and bad on both sides! Right now the pension in my area is so  up i will prolly never see one! A 401k looks better all the time!


Do you have a local pension and a national pension ?


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> You get the work (what work there is) because you run the other folks out of town.
> 
> Good luck in encouraging further development and manufacturing jobs.
> 
> ...


Im doing 2x 16 unit town houses at the moment with geothermal heat all infloor 3 zones per unit 2x full baths per unit 64 bathroom job 32 kitchens should be 3-4 months work what are you doing at the moment? i will post pics since we just finished the the underground dwv working on waterlines atm


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike Jessome said:


> Im doing 2x 16 unit town houses at the moment with geothermal heat all infloor 3 zones per unit 2x full baths per unit 64 bathroom job 32 kitchens should be 3-4 months work what are you doing at the moment? i will post pics since we just finished the the underground dwv working on waterlines atm


 Don't need to be a blowhard about it...


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Don't need to be a blowhard about it...


Im not just saying because he is clearly insulting me because im strong about the union and what it stands for and he also is insulting the area I live in which is a great place


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Question about PA DWV...I had someone tell me once not long ago, and all DWV work must be in cast....no pvc allowed...wtf? He said when you see plumbers outside houses melting lead to make their repairs.....is he screwing with me?? He made it sound as if plumbing work in PA is from another planet altogether with regards to their codes.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PinkPlumber said:


> Question about PA DWV...I had someone tell me once not long ago, and all DWV work must be in cast....no pvc allowed...wtf? He said when you see plumbers outside houses melting lead to make their repairs.....is he screwing with me?? He made it sound as if plumbing work in PA is from another planet altogether with regards to their codes.


Pink, same way with Chicago and some of surburbs, backazzward for most parts..


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Pink, same way with Chicago and some of surburbs, backazzward for most parts..



So all cast? Even a sectional repair?


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

Philadelphia has its own code lead and oakum under ground, no hub and dwv copper above. PVC is allowed in residential under 3 stories. No hub has been allowed underground recently if you use mg couplings.We still use ideal bends and vent practically nothing.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

i would love to have undergrounds spec lead+oakum that would be awesome


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

It's nice in the winter but you don't want to be anywhere near that lead pot when it gets hot out


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