# Deburring



## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Do any of the senior plumbers have any insight as to what era "reaming" copper tube was widely adopted?


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

rwh said:


> Do any of the senior plumbers have any insight as to what era "reaming" copper tube was widely adopted?


*I started the trade in 1955. Copper water was just gaining a foothold for distribution lines using the method we use today, prior to that solder was applied through a hole in the fitting.
*http://parrsplumbing.blogspot.com/s...d-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=4
*On the link above scroll down to the 4th photo, I believe Mueller was the first. Cutters had the fold out reaming blade on them in reality the square hole was used more to turn on a B-tank. Reaming was being pushed in the early 60's as it was realized the the ridge left from cutting also caused hydraulic jump and could wear the wall of the tubing so thin that it leaked. *


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *I started the trade in 1955. Copper water was just gaining a foothold for distribution lines using the method we use today, prior to that solder was applied through a hole in the fitting.
> *http://parrsplumbing.blogspot.com/s...d-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=4
> *On the link above scroll down to the 4th photo, I believe Mueller was the first. Cutters had the fold out reaming blade on them in reality the square hole was used more to turn on a B-tank. Reaming was being pushed in the early 60's as it was realized the the ridge left from cutting also caused hydraulic jump and could wear the wall of the tubing so thin that it leaked. *


You're a living historian of plumbing Mr. Bill. Your posts are great!

Did copper come before galvanized water lines?


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Thanks Plumber Bill. I have cut out many and un-sweat and gone back with new pipe on many of the fittings with holes in them. The ones I see are Mueller Streamline cast brass. One of the buildings I work in has this system on DW, air, vac, steam, condensate, and gas. 1/2" up to 5". WPA building circa 1939.


My home has a recirc line that is original to house. Late seventies house. Thinking about tieing it back into water heater. If I add a circulator, I'm a little concerned about eroding my pipes. Trying to make an educated guess as to whether pipe is reamed.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Mueller was the first circa 1930. It was called Mueller Streamline.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Plumbus said:


> Mueller was the first circa 1930. It was called Mueller Streamline.



I'm familiar with Mueller. I've seen lots of their fittings and other products. Their brass foundry is about an hour from where I live.

Still curious as to when deburring became commonplace. Or if it has. I was brought up in a "ream every cut" culture. Maybe it is not as common as I think it is? Maybe I am worrying over a potential problem that will never occur?


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

rwh said:


> I'm familiar with Mueller. I've seen lots of their fittings and other products. Their brass foundry is about an hour from where I live.
> 
> Still curious as to when deburring became commonplace. Or if it has. I was brought up in a "ream every cut" culture. Maybe it is not as common as I think it is? Maybe I am worrying over a potential problem that will never occur?


When I started in 95ish it didn't seem super important, it was more important on the a/c side. Nowadays we know what problems it causes, but I doubt the repipe in 1 day companies are reaming every joint.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

I think reaming pipe has always been the proper practice. Before copper was galvanized and brass. We replaced some 6 inch brass water lines and they were all reamed. They had been there since 1908.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I bet a lot of guys are wondering what is reaming?....:laughing:


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## wharfrat (Nov 1, 2014)

The plumbers that trained me didn't own a reamer. Wasn't until plumbing school that I learned the importance.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

I started working with my Dad in '64, cleaning copper fittings/reaming pipe, prepping lead joints, etc. Copper pipe cutters leave a ridge inside of the pipe, reaming cuts the ridge out.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

If a piping system fails (think pin holes), an insurance company may send a sample to a testing lab. If the lab finds that the tube wasn't reamed, the plumbing contractor responsible will get reamed for sure. 
I went back to my library of old UPC code books and found no mention of reaming copper tube installation guide in the 1985 book. The '94 book does mention reaming. Unfortunately, I can't find my '88 and '91 books.


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## JorgensenPlbg (Jul 12, 2010)

Started my apprenticeship in 1987 and never once was told to ream copper.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

An older plumber in my local is cousins with the man who built my house as his personal home (also a plumber). He got in touch with him, said they didn't ream any of it.

What do you guys think about putting a circulator on it? Will it be fine, or am o opening Pandora's box?


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## JorgensenPlbg (Jul 12, 2010)

rwh said:


> An older plumber in my local is cousins with the man who built my house as his personal home (also a plumber). He got in touch with him, said they didn't ream any of it. What do you guys think about putting a circulator on it? Will it be fine, or am o opening Pandora's box?


Can you do a gravity return? No pump and issues with erosion.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

JorgensenPlbg said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > An older plumber in my local is cousins with the man who built my house as his personal home (also a plumber). He got in touch with him, said they didn't ream any of it. What do you guys think about putting a circulator on it? Will it be fine, or am o opening Pandora's box?
> ...



I am going to hook it up gravity. Don't think it will work. 2 story on crawl. Heater on first floor. Hot comes off heater then ducks back into crawlspace. Basically heat trapped.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Is it true that if you ream all your cuts that it eliminates a lot of the sound that the water makes when traveling through pipe?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Is it true that if you ream all your cuts that it eliminates a lot of the sound that the water makes when traveling through pipe? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope. I ream everything. 
More pressure or flow = more sound. If you oversize it there's less noise.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Using acoustical straps is also helpful in keeping down noise.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Plumbus said:


> Using acoustical straps is also helpful in keeping down noise.




Acoustilators cost an arm and a leg vs regular insulators. Hard to factor them in vs cost of a job.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Acoustilators cost an arm and a leg vs regular insulators. 
Not as much as going back and trying to quiet down the noise.
Hard to factor them in vs cost of a job.[/quote]
It depends on the job. Plus, once a job is in hand, some customers can be up sold on the benefits.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rwh said:


> I am going to hook it up gravity. Don't think it will work. 2 story on crawl. Heater on first floor. Hot comes off heater then ducks back into crawlspace. Basically heat trapped.


 if you need a pump sizing is extremely important to keep the water from pitting the pipe. Only 5 feet per Minuit very little movement is needed.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

I did a few jobs lately that were in copper, ended up breaking my reaming tool, ended up using this for the rest of the day.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

wyrickmech said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to hook it up gravity. Don't think it will work. 2 story on crawl. Heater on first floor. Hot comes off heater then ducks back into crawlspace. Basically heat trapped.
> ...


Suggested pump?


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

*Hey Bill*



PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *I started the trade in 1955. Copper water was just gaining a foothold for distribution lines using the method we use today, prior to that solder was applied through a hole in the fitting.
> *http://parrsplumbing.blogspot.com/s...d-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=4
> *On the link above scroll down to the 4th photo, I believe Mueller was the first. Cutters had the fold out reaming blade on them in reality the square hole was used more to turn on a B-tank. Reaming was being pushed in the early 60's as it was realized the the ridge left from cutting also caused hydraulic jump and could wear the wall of the tubing so thin that it leaked. *


We might be about the same age. I am 76 and started working for my neighbor when I was 16. After School and on Saturdays. But I remember we installed one of the first Copper Waste and Vent jobs on a 4 plex in Bell Gardens, CA back in 1956 I believe. I joined the Army in 57 so I think that was the time period.. Any how, the L.A. Inspector cam out to approve the job and I remember using a brass polish to shine the copper to look brand new. Take care...


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

chonkie said:


> I did a few jobs lately that were in copper, ended up breaking my reaming tool, ended up using this for the rest of the day.




Broke my pen style one today, the blade itself though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

srloren said:


> We might be about the same age. I am 76 and started working for my neighbor when I was 16. After School and on Saturdays. But I remember we installed one of the first Copper Waste and Vent jobs on a 4 plex in Bell Gardens, CA back in 1956 I believe. I joined the Army in 57 so I think that was the time period.. Any how, the L.A. Inspector cam out to approve the job and I remember using a brass polish to shine the copper to look brand new. Take care...


 <snip>

*Thinking back the first copper DWV job. The only torch the company had was a Goss [about a 1-1/2 in diameter x 12" long] that we refilled from a 20P propane tank we carried, it was fine for 1/2 & 3/4 copper. Drainage/Vent work it did not make it. My dad was a painter I went home got his blowtorch first copper job was soldered with that -- ironic property was owned by a fireman -- glad he wasn't home. The next day the boss bought a Prestolite. 

Srloren got a couple of years on you 79 coming up in October.
*


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## kwikproplumb01 (Jun 3, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> I bet a lot of guys are wondering what is reaming?....:laughing:


????


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

kwikproplumb01 said:


> ????


We got some young handyman here...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> We got some young handyman here...


 sounds like he needs a good reaming.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

srloren said:


> ... Any how, the L.A. Inspector cam out to approve the job and I remember using a brass polish to shine the copper to look brand new. Take care...


wait what? The copper was used?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

kwikproplumb01 said:


> ????


 










:jester:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rwh said:


> Suggested pump?


 go with the grunfos line. You won't need much just enough to move the water.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

wyrickmech said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > Suggested pump?
> ...


Thank you


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