# creative ways to find leaks?



## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

I have a leak on a chilled water supply riser. It goes threw 5 floors of occupied space. I've already done a cologne test and may have it narrowed down to the 4th floor. 

I was wondering what creative ways you have used to find leaks?


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

fightnews said:


> I have a leak on a chilled water supply riser. It goes threw 5 floors of occupied space. *I've already done a cologne test* and may have it narrowed down to the 4th floor.
> 
> I was wondering what creative ways you have used to find leaks?


Please explain the cologne test . . .


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

My helper claims he is doing the "cologne test" from time to time...


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

Phat Cat said:


> Please explain the cologne test . . .


Put cologne or peppermint oil something like that into the pipe and fill it with air. then find the smell


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

Titan Plumbing said:


> My helper claims he is doing the "cologne test" from time to time...


What do you mean?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

fightnews said:


> What do you mean?


He mainly does this when we're in a small room or when the windows are rolled up in the truck...I don't believe him though.


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

Titan Plumbing said:


> He mainly does this when we're in a small room or when the windows are rolled up in the truck...I don't believe him though.


oh a fart joke,


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

fightnews said:


> oh a fart joke,



Are you sure your a plumber:laughing::laughing:


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> Are you sure your a plumber:laughing::laughing:


Unfortunately


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I have used garlic crush it up and mix a little hot water with it and put the air to the pipe. The room with the prob will smell like a italian restaurant!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

fightnews said:


> Put cologne or peppermint oil something like that into the pipe and fill it with air. then find the smell


It works and normally done on sewer and vents....no joke. I don't see peppermint working on a chilled water system. If its not buried look for the water.

The best way is with a trace gas detector and commonly used with helium. Since its not potable, if you can drain the system down do a liquid smoke test.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> It works and normally done on sewer and vents....no joke. I don't see peppermint working on a chilled water system. If its not buried look for the water.
> 
> The best way is with a trace gas detector and commonly used with helium. Since its not potable, if you can drain the system down do a liquid smoke test.


 
Once you smell the peppermint might as well go home. Our guys seem to
get it on thier hands and walk into the building killing all sense of smell. Just gotta shake your head and smile thinking WTF


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

oops


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Once you smell the peppermint might as well go home. Our guys seem to
> get it on thier hands and walk into the building killing all sense of smell. Just gotta shake your head and smile thinking WTF


You definitely want the person using the oil to stay outside after application. Keep all rooms closed so it will be more obvious to narrow it down. I don't see this being the way to go for this application. I also for the life of me do not quite understand how it would not be more obvious where the leak could be. If it were not for the metal banding on the insulation I would say use a thermal imager for quick scanning.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Titan Plumbing said:


> My helper claims he is doing the "cologne test" from time to time...


I know a guy that calls it "blowing prison kisses".


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Why don't you guys just do a smoke test and get it over with


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Why don't you guys just do a smoke test and get it over with


That is what I think. Liquid smoke would be best I think.


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## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

its a smoke test ... but instead of visible smoke you use smell ...lol imma have to try that some time  i <3 Italian food MMmmmmMmmmMmmmMMm...


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

antiCon said:


> its a smoke test ... but instead of visible smoke you use smell ...lol imma have to try that some time  i <3 Italian food MMmmmmMmmmMmmmMMm...


That is for the visually impared plumbers


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

I've never tried the cologne test. Maybe I should!:laughing:

[YOUTUBE="PO-yk1fqEVQ"]Hai Karate[/YOUTUBE]


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Gettinit said:


> You definitely want the person using the oil to stay outside after application. Keep all rooms closed so it will be more obvious to narrow it down. I don't see this being the way to go for this application. I also for the life of me do not quite understand how it would not be more obvious where the leak could be. If it were not for the metal banding on the insulation I would say use a thermal imager for quick scanning.


I agree. Having a hard time wrapping my head around this one. Chilled water leaks are pretty easy to find if you can see the pipe...:blink:Find the wet insulation and strip it off till you find the source.....


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Do you need a mechanical contractor's license to repair that line? Here you do. Chilled water lines require a mechanical contractor's license here in FL.


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> It works and normally done on sewer and vents....no joke. I don't see peppermint working on a chilled water system. If its not buried look for the water.
> 
> The best way is with a trace gas detector and commonly used with helium. Since its not potable, if you can drain the system down do a liquid smoke test.


Sounds awesome. That equipment is very expensive


Gettinit said:


> You definitely want the person using the oil to stay outside after application. Keep all rooms closed so it will be more obvious to narrow it down. I don't see this being the way to go for this application. I also for the life of me do not quite understand how it would not be more obvious where the leak could be. If it were not for the metal banding on the insulation I would say use a thermal imager for quick scanning.


 Also awesome and expensive



OldSchool said:


> Why don't you guys just do a smoke test and get it over with


 Well for 1 it's space occupied by elderly people. For 2 I basically already found it with cologne. I know the general area just need to take some rock out



Tommy plumber said:


> Do you need a mechanical contractor's license to repair that line? Here you do. Chilled water lines require a mechanical contractor's license here in FL.


 Yeah a pipe fitting license.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I bought 1. In the grand scheme of things it's really not that expensive. Also, you can find places that rent please. Or, sub it out.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I generally fill the piping up with water, shut the system off and then use an air compressor to pump the system up to 200+PSI.

Unless it's a weeper, you're going to hear and see it right away.

If you suspect a weeper, introduce some peppermint oil into the piping. Wear disposable nitrile gloves if you have to go this route.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> I generally fill the piping up with water, shut the system off and then use an air compressor to pump the system up to 200+PSI.
> 
> Unless it's a weeper, you're going to hear and see it right away.
> 
> If you suspect a weeper, introduce some peppermint oil into the piping. Wear disposable nitrile gloves if you have to go this route.


I have only used it in empty sewer/vents. Do you have a way to figure how much oil you would need based on equipment? What do you do for/to the cooling towers? Thanks...


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## PunkRockPlumber (Mar 26, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> I generally fill the piping up with water, shut the system off and then use an air compressor to pump the system up to 200+PSI.
> 
> Unless it's a weeper, you're going to hear and see it right away.
> 
> If you suspect a weeper, introduce some peppermint oil into the piping. Wear disposable nitrile gloves if you have to go this route.


Its still legal to air test PVC? Not here.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

MikeBKNY78 said:


> Its still legal to air test PVC? Not here.


I thought we were talking about chiller lines.


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## PunkRockPlumber (Mar 26, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> I thought we were talking about chiller lines.


I probably missed that part. I apologize.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I've been known to do a smoke test... :thumbup:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> I thought we were talking about chiller lines.


I have actually seen ssh.80 on chiller lines.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> I have actually seen ssh.80 on chiller lines.


I've seen CPVC used -- I couldn't gouge my eyes out fast enough.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Once you smell the peppermint might as well go home. Our guys seem to
> get it on thier hands and walk into the building killing all sense of smell. Just gotta shake your head and smile thinking WTF


Next time you have one peppermint will not find try some garlic! Cologne and peppermint smells can both be lost quickly particularly on new construction. Garlic will make the problem stick out like a terd in a punchbowl. Do it from a roof vent and you will find it!


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> I've seen CPVC used -- I couldn't gouge my eyes out fast enough.


I have used sch.80 cpvc on chiller lines! Not my choice just doing what I was told.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I soap test fittings on closed loop during refills to double check joints.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

deerslayer said:


> I have used sch.80 cpvc on chiller lines! Not my choice just doing what I was told.


I have no issues with you doing as you were directed. I really don't.

It's the folks doing the directing I have issues with.

OTOH, sched 80 PVC is miles better than any of the other cheaper alternatives that are so often used.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Water witching - divineing!


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> I bought 1. In the grand scheme of things it's really not that expensive. Also, you can find places that rent please. Or, sub it out.


Is it easy to use? What other applications is it good for?


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> I generally fill the piping up with water, shut the system off and then use an air compressor to pump the system up to 200+PSI.
> 
> Unless it's a weeper, you're going to hear and see it right away.
> 
> If you suspect a weeper, introduce some peppermint oil into the piping. Wear disposable nitrile gloves if you have to go this route.


I have a hydrostatic pump they're awesome:thumbup:


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> I have used sch.80 cpvc on chiller lines! Not my choice just doing what I was told.


yeah, thats what the chemical guys use also most underground chiller pipe is sced 80 or that fiberglass stuff. It's not unusual in those applications


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

fightnews said:


> Is it easy to use? What other applications is it good for?


Leak detection in general. The thermal imager is good for electrical, plumbing, HVAC....


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

fightnews said:


> Is it easy to use? What other applications is it good for?


Leak detection in general. The thermal imager is good for electrical, plumbing, HVAC....I don't use helium I use a different gas (hydrogen/nitrogen blend) but was not 100% sure you could use it.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

ronaldjohn said:


> For detecting leaks around your house, you may observe the water meter. If there is no usage in any of your faucet and the meter is still moving, then a leak is a suspect. Also, try to rely on visual and listening for any signs of sounds and sightings of leaks. plumbing service edmonton ab


Whoa whoa whoa, hold the phone!!!

Are you trying to tell me that if you can see or hear a leak, you may want to suspect a leak as the culprit?!?

Mind=Blown 

Next you'll tell us that if the water meter (flow meter) dial is turning, there might be water passing through it!

{plug website in first post ever, here}

:thumbup:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

U666A said:


> Whoa whoa whoa, hold the phone!!!
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that if you can see or hear a leak, you may want to suspect a leak as the culprit?!?
> 
> ...


:laughing:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

The deleted his website was it captainobvious.com?


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

ronaldjohn said:


> For detecting leaks around your house, you may observe the water meter. If there is no usage in any of your faucet and the meter is still moving, then a leak is a suspect. Also, try to rely on visual and listening for any signs of sounds and sightings of leaks.


*DUDE you are frickin brilliant !:no:*


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

ronaldjohn said:


> For detecting leaks around your house, you may observe the water meter. If there is no usage in any of your faucet and the meter is still moving, then a leak is a suspect. Also, try to rely on visual and listening for any signs of sounds and sightings of leaks.



I think he is saying Gettinit should put away the witchin sticks.:laughing:


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## bblake392 (Jun 25, 2009)

You can use a fog machine and add some really cheap perfume. A little more subtle than smoke.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> You definitely want the person using the oil to stay outside after application. Keep all rooms closed so it will be more obvious to narrow it down. I don't see this being the way to go for this application. I also for the life of me do not quite understand how it would not be more obvious where the leak could be. If it were not for the metal banding on the insulation I would say use a thermal imager for quick scanning.


 
Thermo imaging does not work unless it is warm to hot at least that is what I have been told by companies that use thermo imaging.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

bblake392 said:


> You can use a fog machine and add some really cheap perfume. A little more subtle than smoke.


In a potable water system....hope you don't gt caught contaminating the water or worse.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Thermo imaging does not work unless it is warm to hot at least that is what I have been told by companies that use thermo imaging.


Everything puts out heat. It is a lot easier to find hot leaks with it but you can also easily see cool spots and those areas that are evaporating....at least with mine and mine isn't a very high end unit. Try to borrow one one night from them and run a cold shower for a second then ago see the water spots. It works. I am no thermographer by any stretch of the word but I have used it and it works. Mind you, using it for leak detection as an end all be all tool, is a joke. It should be used as an aid along with many other tools.

The bigger the delta T the better the readings will be. 20°F is considered a minimal delta T.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

For crying alound... don't you guys ever use the dog to find the leak????


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> For crying alound... don't you guys ever use the dog to find the leak????


I used them to find the watering holes and women.:laughing:


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## bblake392 (Jun 25, 2009)

Gettinit said:


> In a potable water system....hope you don't gt caught contaminating the water or worse.


We were talking about a chilled water system. I would only recommend this method for large multistory non-potable systems.


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

If anybody was wondering I left a pencil mark at my best guess from the cologne test and left the company for a better paying job offer. Wasn't my leak anyhow.


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## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

For troublesome leaks you can call a disaster company they usally have all the cool tools and devices for finding leaks, An old boss of mine had to call them one time because a house we just finished had a small small leak on the water dist. system When we turned the water on the Meter gauge said it was leaking something ridiculously small like 1/600 gallon per hour (could be wrong on the exact number but it was small) but big enough to cause some real damage once the leak made itself visible in God knows how long. We spent like 8hrs their 3 guys trying to find it and finally called in the disaster company and they found in within an hour using their little thermo gun. Pretty cool tool, i'd love to have a nice one.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> For crying alound... don't you guys ever use the dog to find the leak????


Oh, I've once...hot line slab leak. OH's dog change his sleeping spot to middle of the hall for some reason, turn out he liked the warm spot, sorry fido back to the basket for you.


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## ditchdigger (Aug 12, 2012)

Put some gauges on it take a bottle of compressed air pump it up to 500psi I'm sure you will get an idea of the leak location


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> Oh, I've once...hot line slab leak. OH's dog change his sleeping spot to middle of the hall for some reason, turn out he liked the warm spot, sorry fido back to the basket for you.


 Yay...... I've done this many times... one I had trouble with was a doberman that refused to move... had nice white pereally(sp) white teeth..


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