# My july 4th water heater....



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Got a water heater to change out today that has made
my top 10 list for level of difficulty.....

The lady is selling the house so they dont even want to change it out but it is pissing all over the place....

I took pictures of how someone installed this mess and we will probably be there most of the day to get it done....

first there is a one ton SAFE to the right of the brine tank that has to be moved out..
the lady said if I could get the safe upstairs, I could have it... what a sweet deal..

then a large brine tank that has to be moved over and out... 

then there is a sump pump pit you have to step over 
to get to the WATER Softener that has to be taken out... Probably going to lay some plywood over the hole to step on
...
might have to remove the sump pump to get the old and new water heater in and out......

then finally behind the sump pump pit and water softener is a 50 gallon whilrpool heater that has to go...

there is one way in and one way out...
and all this under a stairwell..

good times, good times....

pics are on the way...


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Mark after that you're ready for an obstacle racing :lol:


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

That was great planning on the original install.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

that would be a perfect job for the home depot $350 install. :laughing:


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)




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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

it was an obstacle course... we got there at 9.am
and were done by 12.45...

it took 3 of us to get it out of the hole....

I ran my helper up and down the stairs at least 100 times
and I stayed in the hole grinding away.. he was looking pretty ragged.:laughing:

we put a peice of plywood over the sump pump hole and
that probably saved me a number of falls..

it cleaned up pretty well with flex connectors and re-piping the water softener to the other side of the sump pit... The brine tank went to the far right and there was enough room to get through.... and we moved the safe about 8 inches to the right
There is enough room to actually remove the heater now without having to move the softener out ,, so it worked out pretty well....


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

So you didn't get the safe...:laughing:

I woulda....:yes::laughing:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Place looks like a rats nest, what up with the appliance connector on HWH?

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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumbdrum said:


> Place looks like a rats nest, *what up with the appliance connector on HWH?*


Don't worry Aboudit....

It attenuates the sound of him banging on the gas valve with his channellock pliers....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> Place looks like a rats nest, what up with the appliance connector on HWH?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 
The room actually cleaned up really well,,, they now have a lot of room to service things.... you could not even light the heater or get to that 3 inch cleanout even if your life depended on it before

In this state and many others out west, appliance connectors are ok to use on water heaters 
and they allow for some movement or settling in the building over time.... there is a drip leg at the control...

believe it or not , in this state they are also ok to use on furnaces.... just tie into the furnace control and run it out to the shut off 36 inches away if you like..



Actually Redwood, I had a little difficulty getting that heater to fire up... it has been sitting in the office since
last fall out of the box... a scratch and dent model 

I had to give it the old "channle lock treatment"":thumbup:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> So you didn't get the safe...:laughing:
> 
> I woulda....:yes::laughing:


 
That safe would have killed you... It stood about 36 inches tall and about 30 inces wide.. probably weighed 1200lbs..

I think it was lowered into the building with a crane when the place was built because it would not have gone up the stairs...

I would rather buy a nice gun safe from gander mountain for $800 bucks over risking life and limb
tangling with a free safe..


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## MattZone (Mar 28, 2014)

PVC on the relief valve?

A Whip for the gas line?

And are those rubber hose connections for the water lines?

WTF?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

MattZone said:


> PVC on the relief valve? A Whip for the gas line? And are those rubber hose connections for the water lines? WTF?


It's so when you have to "tap" on the gas valve it doesn't vibrate though the piping, I shall call it sound isolation piping. Ha, it's like homeowner plumbing

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

How is it vented? Can't see through the MESS

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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MattZone said:


> PVC on the relief valve?
> 
> A Whip for the gas line?
> 
> ...


 
so why would you not use cpvc on the relief valve going over to the sump pit..?? it works great for this application...

24 inch 3/4 brass craft braided flex lines to the heater
they work great , better than dia-electrics , I have used thousands of them

the flu goes in between the furnace and the wall and ties into the vent... cant get a picture of it. it was the easy part of the mess.....



so why dont anyone have anything to say about the *shark bite couplings* I used to connect the white pex to the wirsbo pex on top of the water softener??
cant you see them in the picture??:laughing::blink:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> so why would you not use cpvc on the relief valve going over to the sump pit..?? it works great for this application... 24 inch 3/4 brass craft braided flex lines to the heater they work great , better than dia-electrics , I have used thousands of them the flu goes in between the furnace and the wall and ties into the vent... cant get a picture of it. it was the easy part of the mess..... so why dont anyone have anything to say about the shark bite couplings I used to connect the white pex to the wirsbo pex on top of the water softener?? cant you see them in the picture??:laughing::blink:


Where did you get your plumbing skills from? That theory of plumbing of yours is no better than a handy hack Home Depot installer. What's separating your " professionalism " from them? That install would fail here in a heart beat for numerous reasons.

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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Where's the earthquake strap?



:laughing:


Nice job, brother.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumber said:


> Where's the earthquake strap? :laughing: Nice job, brother.


All those wires dangling in front of it will catch it when it falls over. Who needs straps with that mess?

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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> All those wires dangling in front of it will catch it when it falls over. Who needs straps with that mess?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


:laughing:...yeah and watch the check bounce higher than the moon!


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## MattZone (Mar 28, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> so why would you not use cpvc on the relief valve going over to the sump pit..?? it works great for this application...
> 
> 24 inch 3/4 brass craft braided flex lines to the heater
> they work great , better than dia-electrics , I have used thousands of them
> ...


Your site claims over 60 years of "plumbing diagnostic experience." Yet your plumbing looks no better than a 1 year apprentices or a handymans. That install would instantly fail here.

Now I kind of understand you getting on me telling you to test the water in that house where the Navien failed. You're a complete hack, with no regard or respect for our professional and licensed trade.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbdrum said:


> How is it vented? Can't see through the MESS
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


So your a certified electrician who can reroute the "mess" that's hanging in front of the heater? He was contracted to replace the heater, which he did and made it accessible for the next contractor to be able to replace it...

Before bumping your gums post pictures of your work before you hate...


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

MattZone said:


> Your site claims over 60 years of "plumbing diagnostic experience." Yet your plumbing looks no better than a 1 year apprentices or a handymans. That install would instantly fail here.
> 
> Now I kind of understand you getting on me telling you to test the water in that house where the Navien failed. You're a complete hack, with no regard or respect for our professional and licensed trade.


Same with you, post your work and let us be the judge of what kind of plumber you are... There are also gonna be haters in this trade. Post up and let's critique you.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> So your a certified electrician who can reroute the "mess" that's hanging in front of the heater? He was contracted to replace the heater, which he did and made it accessible for the next contractor to be able to replace it... Before bumping your gums post pictures of your work before you hate...


Before I get in a debate with you, that HWH install is ok with you. If so , my debate will be very short . As for pictures my old phone from my plumbing business has them, BELIEVE me I would be ashamed to put my name on that work. I no longer work with the tools, perhaps i can sneak into an old customer to snap a pic for you if it makes you feel better, I have no problem with that .

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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Just like Internet Warriors, Internet Professionals are usually full of compressed air.

Leave my brother plumber alone, you fluff heads..


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MattZone said:


> Your site claims over 60 years of "plumbing diagnostic experience." Yet your plumbing looks no better than a 1 year apprentices or a handymans. That install would instantly fail here.
> 
> Now I kind of understand you getting on me telling you to test the water in that house where the Navien failed. You're a complete hack, with no regard or respect for our professional and licensed trade.


 
thanks for your vote of confidence.. no problems..
I know what is ok here in our region and what you think only means something in your back yard.....

I suppose you think I should have tested the water on this job just to be sure they did not need a new softener....??:laughing:. :laughing: 

you can criticise someone elses work in a tight nasty spot,,,  but I dont recall you ever throwing up some pics ....

so I guess that you can dish it out but can you take it??

you go ahead and get your licks in.... 
it dont bother me at all
.


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## MattZone (Mar 28, 2014)




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## MattZone (Mar 28, 2014)

Plus I don't have "60 years plumbing diagnostic experience." I am not hating on people for not doing amazing work. It just says at the top of this site "For Professional Plumbers Only." That work would be shamed on a DIY forum. Difference between critiquing something that isn't "perfect" and criticizing someone for calling himself a plumber and putting that level of handy hack work out.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

This is the last tank I did at my in laws a year ago before I hung up the tools, it's an indirect HWH, note the lack of rubber hoses and CPVC on relief tube, note the approved tag also. Not my best work being family wanted to get in and out, but Tia asked I delivered





























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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Nice clean work, no hoses? Lol

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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumber said:


> Just like Internet Warriors, Internet Professionals are usually full of compressed air.
> 
> Leave my brother plumber alone, you fluff heads..


Interesting that a guy who has never posted a picture of his plumbing work and almost never comments on a plumbing topic would say such a thing...

Please tell me again how plumbers are the misfits and losers of society, tattooed 1%ers, drunks, losers one paycheck away from being homeless beggars with a cardboard sign.... :thumbup:

You aren't any plumber's brother.... :no:


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> Got a water heater to change out today that has made my top 10 list for level of difficulty..... The lady is selling the house so they dont even want to change it out but it is pissing all over the place.... I took pictures of how someone installed this mess and we will probably be there most of the day to get it done.... first there is a one ton SAFE to the right of the brine tank that has to be moved out.. the lady said if I could get the safe upstairs, I could have it... what a sweet deal.. then a large brine tank that has to be moved over and out... then there is a sump pump pit you have to step over to get to the WATER Softener that has to be taken out... Probably going to lay some plywood over the hole to step on ... might have to remove the sump pump to get the old and new water heater in and out...... then finally behind the sump pump pit and water softener is a 50 gallon whilrpool heater that has to go... there is one way in and one way out... and all this under a stairwell.. good times, good times.... pics are on the way...


 thank you very much for makeing me laugh. I fought for 2 hours on a silcock.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Let's get back on topic please. I am asking nicely.


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

MattZone said:


> PVC on the relief valve? A Whip for the gas line? And are those rubber hose connections for the water lines? WTF?


 here in nh we can use pvc on the tnp


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Phat Cat said:


> Let's get back on topic please. I am asking nicely.


 
hey..dont worry about it Phatcat...

they are showing their true colors and personalities some of them are behaving
 like spiteful little children.....:yes::laughing: 

I am waiting for a couple of others to chime in
and I am wondering on how long it will take..


all this nastiness over the install of a water heater....


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

budders said:


> here in nh we can use pvc on the tnp


Not sure about IPC , but a relief valve rated under 100,000 btu can use a ****-polymer tube with metal threads. That's in Ma. My suggestion would be if you do use CPVC with a metal thread

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> hey..dont worry about it Phatcat... they are showing their true colors and personalities some of them are behaving like spiteful little children.....:yes::laughing: I am waiting for a couple of others to chime in and I am wondering on how long it will take.. all this nastiness over the install of a water heater....


If your going to post pictures of your work, someone will always have something to say good or bad. But when you perform shoddy installations and post pics regardless what the working conditions, and it looks the way it does, you have to expect some sort of criticism. How is that being spiteful? I tell plumbers that do work like that on inspections that they should be ashamed of themselves for performing work like that, clean it up, pay a re-inspection fee and I'll see ya later. Don't care what they think of me, I sleep fine at night, hopefully they learn.

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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> hey..dont worry about it Phatcat...
> 
> they are showing their true colors and personalities some of them are behaving
> like spiteful little children.....:yes::laughing:
> ...


I thinks that some of the Phag-me are trolling again. Be cool and enjoy your weekend. Turn off the computer....:thumbup:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't see anything in Marks WH install that would make me lose sleep. 

Decent install in an indecent location.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

You both would have failed inspection here due to not supporting the expansion tank..


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> You both would have failed inspection here due to not supporting the expansion tank..


Never saw an expansion tank on Mark's install. Where is it?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> You both would have failed inspection here due to not supporting the expansion tank..


Is that all you got?

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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

His water heater wouldn't pass in Illinois... If it is too code where he is at, job done, move on. 

Who am I to judge your work by my local code? I remember when I posted some pics of my work, there were San tees used for vents, perfectly legal here, and I was berated for it. It P I S S E D we off. For a few days I stewed about it, then I said, "oh well, it works, it passed, and looks good." Now when I post photos of 12" hubbed cast iron with lead and oakum and people say things like "why didn't you use PVC? I would just use PVC" I just laugh and enjoy that I'm still skilled, in a skilled trade.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I've done some work that I thought was pretty salty that wouldn't pass inspection in my own town, much less the PZ. Tough crowd. :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

..........


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> ..........


 

Redwood...its very serious business...to some 

(who have not got a life)


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Never saw an expansion tank on Mark's install. Where is it?


I was waiting for that one... you win a cookie..

its on a well and in our state so its not required ...
maybe where you live it still needs one...:blink:
Everyone ought to chime in on that topic and have
a thougtful , insightful ..opinion:blink:




I got things to do today,a couple of 
folks needing me to hack in
some water heaters...and save theiir weekends.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

They are not always required here either. I only brought it up because I thought another post was mentioning it. I think that was maybe in reference to someone else's photo.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> They are not always required here either. I only brought it up because I thought another post was mentioning it. I think that was maybe in reference to someone else's photo.


so what you got going on today??

it seems like just when I think I am gonna kick back for the day, the phone rings and someone has an emergency that they are willing to pay holiday rates for....

I dont pass it up , cause it keeps me out of doing yardwork


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Honey do's at the BizCompound.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Flyout95 said:


> His water heater wouldn't pass in Illinois... If it is too code where he is at, job done, move on. Who am I to judge your work by my local code? I remember when I posted some pics of my work, there were San tees used for vents, perfectly legal here, and I was berated for it. It P I S S E D we off. For a few days I stewed about it, then I said, "oh well, it works, it passed, and looks good." Now when I post photos of 12" hubbed cast iron with lead and oakum and people say things like "why didn't you use PVC? I would just use PVC" I just laugh and enjoy that I'm still skilled, in a skilled trade.


You bring up some good points, first off was there a permit for him to pass? You talk about skill in a skilled trade, maybe he was having a bad day, but I'm not seeing skill in that install. Now the work you do is the work of skilled plumber. Our state just started crap about sanitary tee's on it's back for vents, we've been doing it like that for years. I get the logic, but I don't make a big deal about it when I do inspections. I just say next time don't do it.

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Everyone enjoy your day, I'm celebrating the 4th today drying out from Arther.

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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Mark as long as YOU can live with it who cares what the PZ plumbing patrol thinks , I will say I have seen better installs but I have seen quite a few that were a lot worse in easily accessible locations. I also didn't see anything wrong safety wise with your install.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Flyout95 said:


> His water heater wouldn't pass in Illinois... If it is too code where he is at, job done, move on.
> 
> Who am I to judge your work by my local code? I remember when I posted some pics of my work, there were San tees used for vents, perfectly legal here, and I was berated for it. It P I S S E D we off. For a few days I stewed about it, then I said, "oh well, it works, it passed, and looks good." Now when I post photos of 12" hubbed cast iron with lead and oakum and people say things like "why didn't you use PVC? I would just use PVC" I just laugh and enjoy that I'm still skilled, in a skilled trade.



I was the ******* that started that without thinking that there are different areas with different codes, at the end of the day the santee's on there back would not affect anything in the drainage system, I do apologize for being a prick.:laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

justme said:


> I do apologize for being a prick.


^^^ Quote worth re-quoting. :laughing: :jester:


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> Never saw an expansion tank on Mark's install. Where is it?


Was addressing MattZone and plumbdrum photos, proving my point of "there are always haters"


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbdrum said:


> Is that all you got?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


No Teflon tape or pipe dope on the 3/4 male adapter comin out of the t&p tisk tisk..


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

*You guys kill me*

I plumb at nukes and coal burners, refineries, hospitals, restaurants, and schools, etc. Minimal residential and I have had one inspection in the last 6 years, and that was done by me taking pictures and sending them to the inspector. I try and make everything look nice and pretty, sometimes it happens, sometimes it don't. My stuff works, it doesn't leak and I have had one or two call backs. If I posted all my work, you clowns would tear it to shreds and call me a hack, but I must be doing something right because all these places call and want me back repeatedly. I don't know Mark or particularly like him, but he seems to get the job done and make his customers happy. Mark, you don't need me to defend you, but I am just getting tired of this crap.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> No Teflon tape or pipe dope on the 3/4 male adapter comin out of the t&p tisk tisk..


Again that's all you got, it's not pressurized and I did put a little pipe dope on thread.

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

As for the safety concern, what is your clearance from the single wall pipe on flue( if that's what it is, can't tell in pic) to your flexible connectors?

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> No Teflon tape or pipe dope on the 3/4 male adapter comin out of the t&p tisk tisk..


Do we have to go over how a tapered thread works?

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## MattZone (Mar 28, 2014)

I am not getting on anyone for imperfect work...

What sets us apart from handymen? Why do we charge multiple times the amount for jobs over unlicensed hacks? Because we perform our work with a set of standards and ethics (or at least we should). This is not about making every solder joint look perfect, this is not about making sure we are creating art every time with our work either. This is about doing a job the professional way. Not taking the hack-job short cut. Making sure our work is plumb and level. Doing it right, justifying our prices for our expertise. This is what separates us from for the rest.

I guess I just take a lot of pride in our trade. I will continue to do so to ensure that our license actually means something (not that it means much these days anyway).

***BTW I did not install the expansion tank in that picture, I installed the boiler not the water heater, as I would never install an expansion tank on its side, nor are we required to brace them in that application anyway.***

Listen we all have jobs that turn out sloppy sometimes, that we are not overly proud of. But still there is a difference between have those occasional jobs that don't turn out right and hacking in work every chance we get.

Respect your trade, your hard earned license and do work to that standard... and charge accordingly. Otherwise we will not be protected by our license one day.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

MattZone said:


> I am not getting on anyone for imperfect work... What sets us apart from handymen? Why do we charge multiple times the amount for jobs over unlicensed hacks? Because we perform our work with a set of standards and ethics (or at least we should). This is not about making every solder joint look perfect, this is not about making sure we are creating art every time with our work either. This is about doing a job the professional way. Not taking the hack-job short cut. Making sure our work is plumb and level. Doing it right, justifying our prices for our expertise. This is what separates us from for the rest. I guess I just take a lot of pride in our trade. I will continue to do so to ensure that our license actually means something (not that it means much these days anyway). ***BTW I did not install the expansion tank in that picture, I installed the boiler not the water heater, as I would never install an expansion tank on its side, nor are we required to brace them in that application anyway.*** Listen we all have jobs that turn out sloppy sometimes, that we are not overly proud of. But still there is a difference between have those occasional jobs that don't turn out right and hacking in work every chance we get. Respect your trade, your hard earned license and do work to that standard... and charge accordingly. Otherwise we will not be protected by our license one day.


Well said

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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> so why would you not use the relief valve going over to the sump pit..cpvc on the relief valve going over to the sump pit..?? it works great for this application...
> 
> 24 inch 3/4 brass craft braided flex lines to the heater
> they work great , better than dia-electrics , I have used thousands of them
> ...



MARK 
I agree with your whole install,
I did one of those once ! in a commc, closet for a restrunt had to pull commc, size brine tank and softener to get access too two commc, 100 gallon wtr/htr's
only one was leaking but suggested to mgr. to change them both out at same
time to keep from having labor chg's to replace 2nd one a month or two down the road !


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbdrum said:


> Do we have to go over how a tapered thread works?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Don't have to go over squat.

My point is everyone is going to have something to say about the way someone installs anything, and what baffles me is its trough just looking at a couple of pictures.

Without knowing the full details of the situation someone is called a hack because of what he had to do to make it work.

Never mind the fact that the original install was hacked in beyond belief along with the other crap they crammed in there.

You and Mattzone come to this thread and pound your chest and call this man a hack by a few pictures of a crappy situation.

I'm with 422, Master Mark and I have disagreed on many things on here, and he doesn't need someone coming to defend him, but get all your facts straight before you say what you would have done in that situation.. We all plumb differently. So what...


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Interesting that a guy who has never posted a picture of his plumbing work and almost never comments on a plumbing topic would say such a thing...
> 
> Please tell me again how plumbers are the misfits and losers of society, tattooed 1%ers, drunks, losers one paycheck away from being homeless beggars with a cardboard sign.... :thumbup:
> 
> You aren't any plumber's brother.... :no:


I did a very quick search on you, Redwood.

You have posted app. 32,500 posts in 5 forums. That's about *22.50 posts per day.*

PZ 14,339
Phag-me 3,771 (what happened there?)
Terry's forum 7,455 (what happened there?)
Ridgid 245 (what happened there?)
draincleaning 6,628

Are you really a plumber or just a hack website designer?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> Don't have to go over squat. My point is everyone is going to have something to say about the way someone installs anything, and what baffles me is its trough just looking at a couple of pictures. Without knowing the full details of the situation someone is called a hack because of what he had to do to make it work. Never mind the fact that the original install was hacked in beyond belief along with the other crap they crammed in there. You and Mattzone come to this thread and pound your chest and call this man a hack by a few pictures of a crappy situation. I'm with 422, Master Mark and I have disagreed on many things on here, and he doesn't need someone coming to defend him, but get all your facts straight before you say what you would have done in that situation.. We all plumb differently. So what...


If there was only one problem with the install I wouldn't make a big deal , there is numerous violations . So yes I will have PLENTY to say, and will continue . If the original install was hacked in beyond belief, it's ok to leave it hacked . I guess things a real different in your parts man.

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## budders (May 19, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> Not sure about IPC , but a relief valve rated under 100,000 btu can use a ****-polymer tube with metal threads. That's in Ma. My suggestion would be if you do use CPVC with a metal thread Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 srry about that yea the polymer is what i was talkin about. The ones granite group and webb sell


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbdrum said:


> If there was only one problem with the install I wouldn't make a big deal , there is numerous violations . So yes I will have PLENTY to say, and will continue . If the original install was hacked in beyond belief, it's ok to leave it hacked . I guess things a real different in your parts man.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


What's been hacked in? He used code approved methods in his jurisdiction.

If your referring to all the wiring hanging, this ain't a Holmes on Homes episode, if they want that rats nest cleaned up its up to the home owner to call an electrian to fix all that. 

You and EVERY single inspector I have ever ran across have a different method for doing something and y'all scream to the high heavens if it ain't your way. If it meets code where your working, deal with it. 

So EVERY single job you installed was a work of art?


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> I was waiting for that one... you win a cookie.. its on a well and in our state so its not required ... maybe where you live it still needs one...:blink: Everyone ought to chime in on that topic and have a thougtful , insightful ..opinion:blink: I got things to do today,a couple of folks needing me to hack in some water heaters...and save theiir weekends.


 lol


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> As for the safety concern, what is your clearance from the single wall pipe on flue( if that's what it is, can't tell in pic) to your flexible connectors? Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Still no answer, does any other state require 2' of copper off the tank before transition to another material? No concern about the temp off the single wall having effect on rubber hose ( or whatever those crap connectors are)?

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> What's been hacked in? He used code approved methods in his jurisdiction. If your referring to all the wiring hanging, this ain't a Holmes on Homes episode, if they want that rats nest cleaned up its up to the home owner to call an electrian to fix all that. You and EVERY single inspector I have ever ran across have a different method for doing something and y'all scream to the high heavens if it ain't your way. If it meets code where your working, deal with it. So EVERY single job you installed was a work of art?


Pretty much every install I walked away proud of, and would even put my name on it, can't say the same for that job

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumber said:


> I did a very quick search on you, Redwood.
> 
> You have posted app. 32,500 posts in 5 forums. That's about *22.50 posts per day.*
> 
> ...


Easy to do if you type with more than one finger and don't have to look at every keystroke....:laughing:

But I do talk plumbing and have posted pics of my work....
Which makes us a little different...

There is only one of us that is a hack and he does roofs...:laughing:
I'll never be wearing a blue or orange smock....


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## wallingford (Nov 16, 2013)

Don't you guys allready take crap from customers and GCs and property managers all day, why give/take it on the INTERNET on our off time. I might be guilty of not posting enough but i believe we should make this site enjoyable for most even when posting criticism. I surely won't post pics of what my boss makes us plumb in big condo buildings, he cut the job with those **** materials and we install them, lots of people want cheap prices, some of us must do that cheap work. Doesn't make me a hack whatever you say. 
Some nice pics though, my cell core abs and pex ain't so pretty (i still make sure it's all code)


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

wallingford said:


> Don't you guys allready take crap from customers and GCs and property managers all day, why give/take it on the INTERNET on our off time. I might be guilty of not posting enough but i believe we should make this site enjoyable for most even when posting criticism.)


Then we would all have to watch soap operas for our daily dose of drama! Plenty of it to go around here and it all amounts to nothing. Just some digital noise.


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## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

I feel like I'm in highschool again
"No I'm better then you, this is why...." 

I love this site haha


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## BC73RS (Jan 25, 2014)

Letterrip said:


> Then we would all have to watch soap operas for our daily dose of drama!


Makes me wonder about who here works at least 8 hrs. a day honestly and who lives on this site..hmmm.:jester:


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

Nice to see I haven't missed much. Same old pz


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Mark , helluva tough job ! Well done !! Got the customer hot water, peace of mind and all on a holiday weekend that took you from the family. Again ,, WELL DONE !


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Ptturner91 said:


> I feel like I'm in highschool again "No I'm better then you, this is why...." I love this site haha


I'm standing in front of the High School with my Trans Am listening to Black Sabbath waiting to take their lunch money

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> I'm standing in front of the High School with my Trans Am listening to Black Sabbath waiting to take their lunch money
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


After which, I'll sell you some dope and take your car for a drive....


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Easy to do if you type with more than one finger and don't have to look at every keystroke....:laughing:
> 
> But I do talk plumbing and have posted pics of my work....
> Which makes us a little different...
> ...


I bet you work for a warehouse...plumbing supply, maybe? That's why you don't post during the day. As hooked into forums you are, there's no way you would willing be away from it for 8 hours.

What happened over at Phag-Me? You have 1632 Thanks, all by the same 5 posters and their ghost accounts, but still! 1632 Thanks! You are loved!

And what about your own forum? 2 years and all you have are 42 posters! That's not too popular.

You are not a plumber.

Yeah, Redwood. I replaced my roof all by myself. 3000 s.q and it cost me 50% less than the lowest quote. You couldn't do that, huh?

Yeah, Redwood. I'd work any job to put food on the table. I am Working Class firming grounded in reality.

Yeah, Redwood. I'm not into being helpful on the internet and this site really isn't geared to be a help site. You're into helping DIY'ers over at Terry's site. That's disgusting.

Yeah, Redwood. I don't take many pictures. I---uh, don't take many pictures.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumber said:


> I bet you work for a warehouse...plumbing supply, maybe? That's why you don't post during the day. As hooked into forums you are, there's no way you would willing be away from it for 8 hours. What happened over at Phag-Me? You have 1632 Thanks, all by the same 5 posters and their ghost accounts, but still! 1632 Thanks! You are loved! And what about your own forum? 2 years and all you have are 42 posters! That's not too popular. You are not a plumber. Yeah, Redwood. I replaced my roof all by myself. 3000 s.q and it cost me 50% less than the lowest quote. You couldn't do that, huh? Yeah, Redwood. I'd work any job to put food on the table. I am Working Class firming grounded in reality. Yeah, Redwood. I'm not into being helpful on the internet and this site really isn't geared to be a help site. You're into helping DIY'ers over at Terry's site. That's disgusting. Yeah, Redwood. I don't take many pictures. I---uh, don't take many pictures.


Dude, Redwood has more plumbing knowledge in 1 hair strain than you do in your plumbing how-to book

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumber said:


> I bet you work for a warehouse...plumbing supply, maybe? That's why you don't post during the day. As hooked into forums you are, there's no way you would willing be away from it for 8 hours.
> 
> What happened over at Phag-Me? You have 1632 Thanks, all by the same 5 posters and their ghost accounts, but still! 1632 Thanks! You are loved!
> 
> ...












Work at a warehouse or, plumbing supply house? 

Sorry... Neither one of those meet the salary criteria to interest me...

Where and when, I choose to post or, what I do on the net is based solely on my interests which is subject to change whenever I please...

But keep posting all day in between checking the "Help Wanted Ads."
I probably turn down more work offers in a week than you have in a year...
I realize it's tough out there for loaner, homeless, ex-cons....

It's good to see that you have a trollish obsession with others that find enjoyment in your pearls.....:thumbup:


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> Dude, Redwood has more plumbing knowledge in 1 hair strain than you do in your plumbing how-to book
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Dude? :laughing:

And who are you? I'm thinking another refugee from Phag-Me...

Redwood is like that other old poster--now over at Phag--who Google answers to questions.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Work at a warehouse or, plumbing supply house?
> 
> Sorry... Neither one of those meet the salary criteria to interest me...
> 
> ...


lol---you aren't anyone redwood. Some little man living in a one room apartment in some little dirty New England town.

Get real.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Starting trouble again plumber. Take your meds and relax.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Gentlemen, let's get back to being gentle men. Otherwise, if it needs to get personal, it needs to get that way elsewhere.

Thanks.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumber said:


> lol---you aren't anyone redwood. Some little man living in a one room apartment in some little dirty New England town.
> 
> Get real.


Yea... You betcha... :laughing:

Now if you'll scuuze me the tide in the river is about to trip and I've got to go do a little bass fishing run...

Should be fun getting pounded by the wakes of the holiday pleasure boaters, but it beats trading barbs with you all day... :laughing:

I was hoping to run off-shore for some tuna & mahi-mahi but Hurricane Artie going by the other day kinda ruined that idea. There are still 20 knot winds out over the canyons....


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumber said:


> Dude? :laughing: And who are you? I'm thinking another refugee from Phag-Me... Redwood is like that other old poster--now over at Phag--who Google answers to questions.


Phag who? Don't even know of that site, as for who I am, I'm the guy who would take all your profit on re-inspection fees if you worked up here.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Yea... You betcha... :laughing:
> 
> Now if you'll scuuze me the tide in the river is about to trip and I've got to go do a little bass fishing run...
> 
> ...


Uh....you are online...posting...as you always do...always posting...always posting...

Now if you'll excuse me, I have chores to be done and no, I don't have house staff to do them. I'm just a plumber...


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## mpot (Oct 2, 2012)

What is the best way to edit out Non copper water piping, PVC drain lines, expansion tanks mounted on side from my phone? I'll be dammed if I'm gonna be uploading any 'raw' pictures to this site. 
I thought I was a decent plumber, after seeing and hearing from the plumbing gods here I'm not so sure anymore.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

mpot said:


> What is the best way to edit out Non copper water piping, PVC drain lines, expansion tanks mounted on side from my phone? I'll be dammed if I'm gonna be uploading any 'raw' pictures to this site. I thought I was a decent plumber, after seeing and hearing from the plumbing gods here I'm not so sure anymore.


That's the second time someone said tank was mounted on its side. It's hanging off the bottom of a female tee

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## mpot (Oct 2, 2012)

plumbdrum said:


> That's the second time someone said tank was mounted on its side. It's hanging off the bottom of a female tee Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I never once looked at the picture in this thread. Idc how good or bad someone else's work is. Nor do I care if someone here thinks I'm a 'hack' 
Sticks and stones Bro


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> That's the second time someone said tank was mounted on its side. It's hanging off the bottom of a female tee...


That is because there is more than one photo in this thread.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

mpot said:


> I never once looked at the picture in this thread...


Sometimes the pictures are the only thing worth looking at in a thread. :whistling2:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> That is because there is more than one photo in this thread.


Ha, got it

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Well, I wouldn't want MasterMark to have all the joy. 

Go ahead gents, tell how bad my hack work is.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I'm tired it's Sunday, just go back and read the old posts

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

fun fun listen she totally forgot to tell you the heater was in the dungeon. ha ha all of us have had those nightmare jobs you are the man for hanging in there and taking care of her problem. plumbers protecting the health of the nation


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Well, I wouldn't want MasterMark to have all the joy.
> 
> Go ahead gents, tell how bad my hack work is.


You should have used a longer flex line. :laughing:


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

plbgbiz that top picture is a work of art. the only thing i see is an expansion tank installed horizontally which will work but which causes the bladder to fail after only a short time and most states require them to be supported in some way either from beneath or from above. not picking just giving food for thought


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

titaniumplumbr said:


> plbgbiz that top picture is a work of art...


The top two pics are from earlier in the thread and not my work. Mine is the hack job with the flex connector. The purists are no doubt plotting my stake burning even as we speak. :laughing:


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Well, I wouldn't want MasterMark to have all the joy. Go ahead gents, tell how bad my hack work is.


 o my goodness look at that mess u cAnt use that gage of metal for a drain pan. And O MY LORD how could you use that shade of yellow on gas pipe. Total hack job. J/k


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> The top two pics are from earlier in the thread and not my work. Mine is the hack job with the flex connector. The purists are no doubt plotting my stake burning even as we speak. :laughing:


And you call yourself a plumber? Oh the humanity!


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

This thread is locked.



(Big picture of a lock)


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Well, I wouldn't want MasterMark to have all the joy.
> 
> Go ahead gents, tell how bad my hack work is.


 

pbgbiz...It looks tolerable to me... 
I think there is a drip leg in the shadows...
I really dont understand what the big deal is about the yellow gas connector?? 

here is a picture of a water heater I looked at today.(yes sunday)..
Repaired the heater with a new thermocoupling and put my sticker on it over someone else.........

do you like the way they run flex gas lines in tract homes in this town...???

 Should I have gone ape-shi/ and not worked on the system cause its beneath my moral plumbing scruples??

This is a normal everyday thing I run into... the gas lines are slopped in like its spagetti..... its nothing new to me..


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> The top two pics are from earlier in the thread and not my work. Mine is the hack job with the flex connector. The purists are no doubt plotting my stake burning even as we speak. :laughing:


Was that in a tin house on wheels?
If it is then anything goes... :laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Was that in a tin house on wheels? If it is then anything goes... :laughing:


Actually, it was a Doctor's office. :laughing:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> pbgbiz...It looks tolerable to me... I think there is a drip leg in the shadows... I really dont understand what the big deal is about the yellow gas connector?? here is a picture of a water heater I looked at today.(yes sunday).. Repaired the heater with a new thermocoupling and put my sticker on it over someone else......... do you like the way they run flex gas lines in tract homes in this town...??? Should I have gone ape-shi/ and not worked on the system cause its beneath my moral plumbing scruples?? This is a normal everyday thing I run into... the gas lines are slopped in like its spagetti..... its nothing new to me..


At least there is no wires in your way

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> pbgbiz...It looks tolerable to me... I think there is a drip leg in the shadows...


Yep, I added a drip leg.

This is a before/after view.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Yep, I added a drip leg. This is a before/after view.


Hey look the previous installer left you from copper for scrap lol


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Yep, I added a drip leg.
> 
> This is a before/after view.


''


Hey plbgbiz... you should have used TREATED Plywood under the water heater pan to firm up the floor... and it looks like you nailed it down with penny nails instead of 
deck screws.....

 Normal un-treated plyood would never have passed here ... and it has to be at least 3/4..,,

it would never have passed.. for shame,,for shame.:laughing::laughing:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> '' Hey plbgbiz... you should have used TREATED Plywood under the water heater pan to firm up the floor... and it looks like you nailed it down with penny nails instead of deck screws..... Normal un-treated plyood would never have passed here ... and it has to be at least 3/4..,, it would never have passed.. for shame,,for shame.:laughing::laughing:


You've penny nails for brains

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> You've penny nails for brains
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 
well, penny nails might give way over time, where as
deck screws would have held down the wood much better under the heater.....:thumbsup:

HEY..and what about *mold re-mediation??* I see mold in that first picture so ...did he get a crew of mold people into that mess to make sure there was no black mold seeping spores into the doctors office??? 

 Did he at least spray a little bleach over the area to dis-infect it?? 

Pennies for brains...... I think not.....:whistling2:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> ...Did he at least spray a little bleach over the area to dis-infect it??...


I hate to take away from the sarcastic banter that is quite entertaining on both sides, however...Bleach is not an effective treatment of mold. It does not kill or get rid of it.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program. :jester:


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## shlomy81 (Apr 23, 2012)

U should of put a few small blocks in that pan by the time the water will reach that drain the fresh air lover underneath that heater will be clogged and no hot water to costumer


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

shlomy81 said:


> U should of put a few small blocks in that pan by the time the water will reach that drain the fresh air lover underneath that heater will be clogged and no hot water to costumer


What kind of blocks?

Maybe the water heater companies should not put the fresh air inlet at the least likely place to get fresh air.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

If that pan drain fills, is having hot water really the driving concern?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> What kind of blocks?
> 
> Maybe the water heater companies should not put the fresh air inlet at the least likely place to get fresh air.


 
Actually the bradfords really NEED to be installed on bricks, I have made that mistake before to see the heater suffocate because its trying to suck air through 2 inches of water in the bottom of the pan...:yes:

,,,and red bricks work best ..the ones with all the holes in them... that way they dry out quicker and mold cant grow... 

Being a professional, you should be worried about the mold.:laughing:
Now...If you want to get rid of mold, you are supposed to an anti-bacterial dish-washing soap like a mixture of half water and half soap.... I keep that in my truck, you never knowwhen you might need to de-mold the wood under a water heater.... or use it to look for bubbles with a gas leak.....:yes:





plbgbiz ...All day long, I have been worrying and frettin about those penny nails you used to nail down that plywood.... 

that is gonna work itself loose some day...:yes::laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> Maybe the water heater companies should not put the fresh air inlet at the least likely place to get fresh air.


One of the AO Smith Brands better ideas that they stole from Hoover... :laughing:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

If ya just put a Nanien in it would be off the floor and no need for a pan..............

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## MattZone (Mar 28, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> If ya just put a Nanien in it would be off the floor and no need for a pan..............
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


If ya need a good laugh look at Master Marks websites...

"The Aquanot II, THE BEST BACKUP SYSTEM!!!!" On the entire market!!!

Or, RHEEM... the only "non-throw away" water heaters evaarrrr!!!!

Then the pics of all his work.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MattZone said:


> If ya need a good laugh look at Master Marks websites...
> 
> "The Aquanot II, THE BEST BACKUP SYSTEM!!!!" On the entire market!!!
> 
> ...


 
now ...what in the hell is the matter with the AquanotII??? Dont you like the flooded basement pic?? That is "shock and awe" at its best....

I just said that the Rheem was the best on the market
nothing was said about them being "non-throw away"..
you are letting your imagination run away with you


Sounds like my site is going to be getting some traffic...


I personally like my sheryl crow videos,,,
she was smoking hot in her day, check out the
video on the top of the tankless page.....she is hot 
then on the water heater page she is pleasent to the eye too... soaking up the sun...


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Can this chest thumping be over? 

It's getting really old, and reminding me of an AOL chat room, except there aren't any 40 year old men pretending to be 15 year old girls... Just 40 year old men acting like 15 year old girls. 

We get it, Mark you're the best or something, and Matt you're also the best, or something. we all bow before your skills and knowledge.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

MattZone said:


> If ya need a good laugh look at Master Marks websites...
> 
> "The Aquanot II, THE BEST BACKUP SYSTEM!!!!" On the entire market!!!
> 
> ...


Hey Matt...you're nick is new here, but don't we know you?

Regardless, look at the join dates of some of the posters here. We been posting here long time and you haven't so **** off.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Flyout95 said:


> Can this chest thumping be over?
> 
> It's getting really old, and reminding me of an AOL chat room, except there aren't any 40 year old men pretending to be 15 year old girls... Just 40 year old men acting like 15 year old girls.
> 
> We get it, Mark you're the best or something, and Matt you're also the best, or something. we all bow before your skills and knowledge.


 
hey, I am just some dumbass who installs water heaters and does plumbing for a living...

I just posted a picture of a nasty job I got into and have been dodgeing horse-crap being slung at me ever since.. 

lots of guys here have done stuff I will never do...
and they do real good at it......

I agree with you

let there be peace in the valley.....:thumbup:


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