# Mysterious Water Discoloration - HELP!



## Traderyoda (Aug 7, 2012)

I have a problem that's got me stumped... need some sage advice. I've been asked to address a discoloration problem in a fairly new (3 year old) house near Annapolis, Maryland. The owners have been having staining issues in their laundry and a fiberglass hot tub. Water is supplied from a 340 ft deep well returning cartesian quality spring water - the water is exceptionally clear with very low turbidity. It does however, have a relatively high iron content (0.29 mg/L - near the recommended limit of 0.30 mg/L). There was some indication of iron bacteria in the system. When the house was built a new, higher power well pump was installed and evidently the installer did nothing to sanitize the new pump. A month ago the well was shock chlorinated - the subsequent water test showed no bacteria present. There is no sulphur smell in the water at all.

The house is equipped with a 60 gallon pressure tank sitting in a crawlspace and an 80 gallon AO Smith Promax water heater. Plumbing is all CPVC and PVC and the construction plumber (since retired) seems to have done an excellent job with the installation.

The hot water is generally dirty looking. I've attached a picture showing the 2nd floor master bath hot tub filled once with all cold, then drained and filled with all hot water (the bath faucet is fed from separate taps - mixing occurs in the faucet). This picture was taken after the pressure tank and the hot water tank were completely drained. The hot water tank was actually drained twice; the second time I removed the drain valve and inspected the bottom of the tank with a boroscope camera. Other that some normal hard water deposits the tank is clean. The original anode was pulled from the tank and replaced with an aluminum one; that too show up clean.

After the hot water tank was drained for the second time I purged the air from the line. In the process of purging the various faucets filthy, deep orange water came out of several hot water taps in the house. In one shower (a 2nd floor guest bath farthest from the hot water tank) the hot water line ran deep orange at full open for close to a minute. The owners told a story that a few weeks ago power went out for several hours. A few hours after power had been restored a guest used the shower and the same thing happened. The orange water deeply stained the white tile and grout in the shower and everything had to be acid washed to get the stains out.

Needless to say the owners are after me to solve this problem. I can't figure out where this discoloration is coming from. Even when the hot water tank is completely drained and refilled with a fresh charge of water it comes out discolored as shown in the photo. As the photo shows, the discoloration here is only slight. But I have no idea where the deep orange junk is coming from.

I do think that given the iron content from the water test some form of filtration is needed. But I can't explain why the hot water is any different in color than the cold water. And I certainly can't fathom how this deep orange sludge is making its way through the system during times when pressure is lost in the system or air in introduced and purged. It's as if it were sitting someplace and then pushed through the system when the system is disturbed. But I can find anyplace where the water is settling other that the hot water and pressure tanks, and they were drained.

Help!!!!

Cheers,
TY


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Post a introduction so you can get some input, members like to know who they are giving advice to.

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


----------



## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Good intro,

I'd say it's the waterheater tank itself, ao smith is a steel tank with a glass coating, sometimes a there are spots that don't get covered or wear away then begin to rust.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

+1 for the rust.

May or may not be sourced in the tank but that would be my guess.

The almost invisible yellow tint from the rust is cancelling out the bluish tint that you normally see.

That large of a storage tank (80gal) may be overkill for the usage which may be contributing to the problem. Too much water sitting around unused. I think if you replace that water heater, this problem will go away. Of course there may be some staining in the lines as well.


----------



## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

A maganease greensand filter and a new water heater would be the best option, also I would chlorinate all the water lines in the house to remove any iron bacteria build up.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


----------



## Traderyoda (Aug 7, 2012)

Very possible. My boroscope allows me to check the bottom of the tank, but I can't see much higher. The orange junk that periodically gets pushed throughout the system does look a lot like rust to me. But how so much of it gets slung around remains a mystery. The iron in the water is dissolved (clear water) iron, and though the levels are a bit high this won't cause the effect I'm seeing. I thought it might also be possible that iron is released from the water at higher temperatures causing the discoloration; or possibly the hot water is causing a chemical reaction, maybe with tannins in the water.

But as you're saying, it's very likely the tank is rusting and sending the rust around the system. It might be settling in unused lines and then gets picked up (it's heavy afterall) and pushed around when a purge occurs.

Personally, I'm not "hot" on AO Smith equipment. My neighbor is a master plumber and he seems to replace them constantly. How about a) switching to a Marathon plastic tank hot water heater, or b) an on-demand system?

Thanks for all of your help!!!


----------



## Traderyoda (Aug 7, 2012)

Follow up.

When the well was shock chlorinated the chlorine charge did sit in the lines for approximately 48 hours. The lines are probably pretty clean now. The hot water tank was also cleaned with hydrogen peroxide by the well treatment company... not sure that did any good.

The owners are a couple, so 80 gallons is a bit of overkill. But they use their hot tub a lot and it requires a tank this big. They also have family over quite frequently and the tank gets a workout!

Cheers
K


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

[QUOTE=Traderyoda;<snip>

In your OP you mention plumbing is CPVC, how did they handle the nipples between the tub faucets and the spout.

If they used galvanized? That could be your problem. When gal nipples are made and reamed the galvanizing is removed. Setting between uses you will get a shot of rust. Sometimes it is pretty pronouced.


----------



## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Chlorine will cause rust on exposed steel or iron parts aswell.


----------



## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

I had lots of cartesian ladies in HK back in the day, of course. They served tea really well. Wouldn't think of doing that now.


----------



## Traderyoda (Aug 7, 2012)

All of the fittings I've encountered in this house are brass to CPVC transitions - no gal anywhere I've seen. Shutoffs are all brass as well.

<I had lots of cartesian ladies in HK back in the day>....

Sounds like you're missing those courtin' days, Plumber! Last time I checked they're still acourtin'....


----------



## AbsoluteDP (Jul 25, 2012)

To eliminate one of many factors here I would heat up water taken from cold tap to the temperature in hot water tank and then add a few drops of bleach. If an iron dissolved in water is causing the problem then you may see a color change – colorless Fe(2+) ion is oxidized to orange Fe(3+)


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

http://www.water-research.net/iron.htm

This may help


----------



## Traderyoda (Aug 7, 2012)

<AbsoluteDP> I tried your handy dandy trick. Heated cold water to match the temperature of the HWH and added a few drops of bleach - nothing happened, stayed crystal clear.

<Richard> That's a terrific site - chock full of good information

I should have added to my original post that I don't think bacteria are the source of the discoloration in the hot water. The water tests didn't detect the presence of bacteria, and the HWH thermostats are both set at 150F, well above the temp that should kill any bacteria. I've tested the output of the water and it read 152F, so the thermostats are accurate. The temps been set high before and after the flushing.

I guess it's coming back to this relatively new HWH dumping a lot of rust into the system...!


----------



## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

What PlumberBill said. 

I've seen it before just as he suggests.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

It is a red rust bacteria in the heater. If you look closely you can see the red ring around the tub. galv nipples typically wil give you a burst of reddish color water and then clear up.

Take a white rag and turn the water on and fill that white rag with red particles. Try a shower and you will discover red streaks down the side of the tile walls.

It is more pronounced in the tub filler due to the volume of water it delivers verses a lavatory faucet or shower mxing valve.

You could try killing the bacteria I have found it easier to replace the heater and chlorinate.

On washing machines I have had the red paint on the rubber hose connection discolor clothes.


----------



## Traderyoda (Aug 7, 2012)

<MarkToo> There's no gal I can see in this system, certainly none on the hot water side.

<Richard> I'll stop over and try your rag trick tomorrow. But I'd be very surprised if those little nasties were causing the problem this time. First, the water test did include tests for iron and sulphur bacteria (BART culture test). All water contains these organisms to some extent, but the tests came back negative. Second, there is no odor associated with the discoloration. There's no bad taste to the water either; it actually tastes great. Third, while bacteria love hot water tanks, they would also be present in the cold water too; but the cold side is fine. Toilet tanks, a favorite spot for bacteria if they are around, are clean as well. Fourth, the HWH is running at high temp, purposely set high to nuke any bacteria that make it in there. I discovered that some of these bacteria can survive temps of 150F, but they don't multiply - they have to multiply to cause noticeable discoloration. And last, bacteria take time to multiply and the discoloration shows up after the hot water tank was completely drained, the system purged, and temps set high. They'd have to be wearing asbestos suits to take that temperature and be breeding at a level to cause discoloration.

Thanks all for the ideas...!!!


----------



## AbsoluteDP (Jul 25, 2012)

After all eliminations made, the only HWT remains as a primary suspect.


----------



## Traderyoda (Aug 7, 2012)

<Richard>

I did try the rag trick this morning, but couldn't' find anything obvious. The master shower in this house gets heavy use and I checked but didn't find any staining (not under normal use anyway, but when the system is disturbed there is a big discharge that does discolor tile work).

<AbsoluteDP>Just ordered an 85 gal. Rheem Marathon tank (which is what the owners chose) and will install it when it arrives. I think all other possibilities are eliminated. I'll cut the AO Smith tank open to peak inside and post the results since this has been a real pain in the neck to diagnose.

Thanks for all the help... be back shortly with the results.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Traderyoda said:


> <Richard>
> 
> I did try the rag trick this morning, but couldn't' find anything obvious. The master shower in this house gets heavy use and I checked but didn't find any staining (not under normal use anyway, but when the system is disturbed there is a big discharge that does discolor tile work).
> 
> ...


 
This is the right choice.Good decision.


----------



## monir47 (Aug 11, 2012)

its really help full.


----------



## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

monir47 said:


> its really help full.


Lmao, so ur from Bangladesh? We don't want any of the shoit ur trying to sell.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


----------

