# Etiquette Between Owners



## HOT H2O (Sep 23, 2011)

Here is a small question of morals. What would you do?

I am a small company, don't advertise much, keep it pretty local. I may do roughly 30 calls per month. In the past couple months I have heard from my customers on two separate occasions where they called "local big company" with all the ads, and the shinny new service trucks. Their tech/techs is collecting money and performing no service. 

my favorite story: 
service tech from "local big guy" comes into condo and asks old lady what she has to drink. Old lady says "I only have some orange juice" Service tech sits at her kitchen table drinks the entire juice. Tells the customer her sink is fine....fixes nothing and the asks for another orange juice for the road. Hits her with a bill for $125. 

She calls me:
There was a Brillo pad shredded by the garbage disposal blocking the drain, and the line to the ice maker was leaking just as she had explained to the first guy. 

I have no idea who this service tech is, but I personally know the owner of the big company....I used to work for him. 

Would you call another local owner and spill the beans about the terrible job his tech is doing? Or do you keep that under your hat? It does benefit me having this clown out there, giving my competitor a bad reputation. But I do feel a bit guilty withholding the information because the owner is a nice guy.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I would share the information. IMO, it's a no brainer. If the shoe were on the other foot, would you want to know?

Just Friday, I called a supply house to let them know a customer felt like they were given the bums rush by the counter guys. Apparently, the showroom was busy, so this customer ended up at the counter.

Supply house was very grateful I made the call. I know they go out of their way, and this was out of the norm. They need the business, so this should be addressed. Obviously, they need better procedures in place when showroom is busy.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Why in the world you complain...

If the customer wants let them do the calling..


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Why in the world you complain...
> 
> If the customer wants let them do the calling..


I understand this sentiment for Joe Shmoe down the street that you could care less about, but do you feel the same if it is a business owner you personally know and consider to be a good guy?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> I understand this sentiment for Joe Shmoe down the street that you could care less about, but do you feel the same if it is a business owner you personally know and consider to be a good guy?


It's not the message but the messengers that get killed ..... Will not be a friend for long ... You are conveying the message that he doesn't know how to run his buisness


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I would tell them, particularly if I knew them. If you are a OMS and he has a bigger company, ya never know you may need his help one day!


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> It's not the message but the messengers that get killed ..... Will not be a friend for long ... You are conveying the message that he doesn't know how to run his buisness


Or maybe you are conveying the message that the new guy he put in charge of hiring isn't working out to well, or maybe he needs to get outta the office and follow up!


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

You have no moral obligation to call your former employer, but capture
that customer without saying bad things about the other guy.
Your former employer hired this guy. Without any word from you, the
other plumber's poor skills will soon come to light at their office.
Same outcome, without you bad mouthing anyone.
In my eyes, your only concern should be for your own business AND
your customer base. You left his employ and are now in competition
with him. Take his customer and be glad for that possibility.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> It's not the message but the messengers that get killed ..... Will not be a friend for long ... You are conveying the message that he doesn't know how to run his buisness


IDK, I think you can convey it in such a way as to not get killed.

"Hey Bob, I was at a customer's house the other day and heard the wildest story about one of your techs. Knowing you, I find it hard to believe because after working for you, I know you would not tolerate it. She said blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I thought it was funny and wanted to share it with you. Some customers are really nutty, huh?"


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

BigDave said:


> You have no moral obligation to call your former employer, but capture
> that customer without saying bad things about the other guy.
> Your former employer hired this guy. Without any word from you, the
> other plumber's poor skills will soon come to light at their office.
> ...


What comes around goes around . . .


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

Phat Cat said:


> What comes around goes around . . .


I agree with you Cat, that's why I speak no ill towards the other plumber
or the company he works for...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

If I had a good personal and on going relationship with the other owner, I would make the call without hesitation.


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> If I had a good personal and on going relationship with the other owner, I would make the call without hesitation.


Cute picture! We have a moral issue here, so we will not all feel the
same way.
I was brought up under the advice of "if you don't have anything good
to say, don't say anything".
Imho, if the little man in your picture does not push over the first domino,
they will not come back to fall on him...
Ok, I'm now through defending my opinion :laughing:


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I wouldn't say anything. Let the work speak for itself. Customers will not call them back if that is how they do business.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> If I had a good personal and on going relationship with the other owner, I would make the call without hesitation.





BigDave said:


> Cute picture! We have a moral issue here, so we will not all feel the
> same way.
> I was brought up under the advice of "if you don't have anything good
> to say, don't say anything".
> ...


I agree with both of you :blink:

My head hurts...I need more coffee :laughing:


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## HOT H2O (Sep 23, 2011)

Well, hopefully he just reads this thread, realized it's me, and that I'm talking about him... and he just tightens up his ship.


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I don't know what I'd do if I was in this situation.

However if I did make the call it would be to ask his advice of how to handle a scenario in my own company. I'd describe exactly what happened with his employee as if it was one of my own. His reaction would determine the course I would proceed to take.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

HOT H2O said:


> Well, hopefully he just reads this thread, realized it's me, and that I'm talking about him... and he just tightens up his ship.


The key here is your relationship with him.

If it is strictly business then mind your own. The more it leans to personal friendship, the more you should consider talking to him.

I see and hear of a lot of plumbers doing a lot of things. I do not rush to being a Boy Scout. But I have a close friend that is also a Plumbing Business Operator so I am familiar with his operation and we do look out for each other. I saw his guys toking it up in a supply house parking lot. Yes I made the call and yes he was grateful.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

There is some line of thought with what you have stated. There really is a strategy with asking a customer for something to drink. Many sales organizations teach this strategy. When a customer is a difficult customer, not on the same page, obnoxious, or rude you seek some type of cooperation. By asking for something such as a drink of water and the customer complies with the request you now have a starting point to gain cooperation.

The issue for me is; is the service person qualified enough to determine if it is really the customer that is difficult. You worked for the owner of this company, is there sales a strategy in place that the company employs? If so leave it alone. You will gain nothing by calling. I agree with Dave and steer away from bad mouthing. I do not know 1 plumber that has never asked a customer for a cold drink of something.

If you must say something ask if it is something that is taught in sales that you missed and if it something that is working out with them. This way it is framed as a question and not one that will offend or make it like you are over stepping boundaries.


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> The key here is your relationship with him.
> 
> I have a close friend that is also a Plumbing Business Operator so I am familiar with his operation and we do look out for each other.


This circumstance changes this whole thing into something different.
I agree with you Biz, by all means, watch your friend's back at all times.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

If you don't know him well don't say anything. OS is right, the owner will just get mad at you and think your bad mouthing his company. I have a few business owners that I would tell, but they are friends of mine.


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> If you don't know him well don't say anything. OS is right, the owner will just get mad at you and think your bad mouthing his company. I have a few business owners that I would tell, but they are friends of mine.


If you are a close enough friend that you would or could tell him his wife was cheating on him, or you saw his son smoking weed behind the circle k, tell him. If not, don't.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

same thing happened to a guy that used to work at our shop he got real snippy with a customer that called him out to fix a clogged toilet she had two but was elderly and on a walker the other toilet was lower toilet mobile home model and the one that was clogged was a comfort height he told her he didnt know why the hell she call him on sunday night if she had another toilet clogged she could have waited till monday, he unclogged and she paid a week later she called us to pull out the other one, she told me what happened she said she wanted to call his boss but she didnt want him to get fired so she wont call them no more. i stoped by his house and asked whats going on he said she was being a biotch with him and asking why it take so long for him to get there and so forth and so forth theres always two side of the story theres so much someone can take till they snap back at a customer


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

I don't think you should ever be snappy or give them any lip no matter how difficult they might be for if you do a good job they will tell maybe 3 or 4 people do something bad or disrespectfull they will tell everyone and in my area we have Angie's list were the customer can post good and bad you could lose a lot of work.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Look I'm sorry but if you rude to me ill flat out walk out your house leave your water off or what ever I'm doing yes its your house and yes you up set but i don't break it or clog I'm here to fix it and just cause you paying me to do it don't give you no right to be a prick rather me take your abuse or say out do something I'll regret if rather leave your house eat my time and go to s next job


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

plumberpro said:


> I don't think you should ever be snappy or give them any lip no matter how difficult they might be for if you do a good job they will tell maybe 3 or 4 people do something bad or disrespectfull they will tell everyone and in my area we have Angie's list were the customer can post good and bad you could lose a lot of work.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I would like to expand on this. Myself or anyone in my employ will not tolerate any abuse from a customer, verbal or otherwise. I have left jobs because of customer rudeness but I will not argue, yell or raise my voice at a customer. It isn't worth getting upset or losing your cool over. If its bad, leave. When a customer give me abuse, I say one time " I don't appreciate being spoken to in that fashion. If you cannot speak to me in a professional and respectful manner, I will be leaving." If it continues, I quietly pack up my tools and wish them luck with their problem and leave. 

Luckily this has only happened one time where I walked off a job. From the second I walked in this lady was a complete biotch. She was verbally abusive challenging my diagnosis and after I said the above to her, she persisted. I got up grabbed my equipment and left. I left her sink drain in pieces and started to walk out. I didn't charge, and told her good luck finding someone who will deal with her abusive attitude. I didn't yell or scream though. If you find out your employee got into an argument with a customer, they need to learn a policy like mine. 

When the time comes that I have techs no the road, if they feel they need to walk off a job due to customer abuse, I will stand behind them 100%. People seem to forget we can refuse service to anyone. Just because you're paying me doesn't give you the right to abuse me or treat me like your servant. You don't have to bow down to me, but I do expect you to treat me with respect you would give to a coworker and talk to me in a civil tone. If you cannot, deal with my competition.


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

revenge said:


> Look I'm sorry but if you rude to me ill flat out walk out your house leave your water off or what ever I'm doing yes its your house and yes you up set but i don't break it or clog I'm here to fix it and just cause you paying me to do it don't give you no right to be a prick rather me take your abuse or say out do something I'll regret if rather leave your house eat my time and go to s next job


Maybe that's a Texas thing... You know, 'don't mess with Texas' and all that.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

rw has same policy the way he typed it came out nicer than mine


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

I used to try and go by the customers is always right but seriously they're not. I had a customer call and tell my boss I was swearing, screaming, and throwing things against the walls while changing a flapper. It almost got me fired. I can see the bosses side, i mean who would make that crap up, but she sure as **** did just to get something for nothing. 
On the upside I saw her out at a bar a few months later. I sent her a shot aptly named the "bar rag" and when the bartender pointed out out who it was from and she looked my way she got a loud proud two finger salute. :thumbup:


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

If hes a friend, I'd certainly tell him


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

revenge said:


> rw has same policy the way he typed it came out nicer than mine


All kidding aside... I agree in principal with your policy, but do derive a certain pleasure from yanking the chains of rude customers. It doesn't happen often that I have a really rude customer, but the few times it has, I usually stuck around just to see how tightly I could wind them up, before collecting their money, and letting them go. Most of the time though, "rude" customers are just upset about a situation beyond their immediate control, or assuming that you are going to be just like the last nimrod that came to their house and screwed something up. These people can be turned around, and sometimes become some of your best customers.


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## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

We have the same problem here a good buddy of mine started his own small shop and he cleans up after the big guy simply cause their is no follow up or someone to contact the coustmers after words to see how the service went for them I think in service shop need to have a quality control man in charge to see how we'll their Clients r with their service it takes one bad apple to ruin a tree and if I was in your shoes I would business aside and make a friend to friend conversation with that guy u never know he might look in to it and find out u r right makes u shine better and always b professional on those jobs never say negative comments to clients u r the professional


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

bartnc37 said:


> I used to try and go by the customers is always right but seriously they're not. I had a customer call and tell my boss I was swearing, screaming, and throwing things against the walls while changing a flapper. It almost got me fired. I can see the bosses side, i mean who would make that crap up, but she sure as **** did just to get something for nothing.
> On the upside I saw her out at a bar a few months later. I sent her a shot aptly named the "bar rag" and when the bartender pointed out out who it was from and she looked my way she got a loud proud two finger salute. :thumbup:


I've had that happen too. The customer called in after I had left to complain and said I was drunk, loud and angry. Little did she know, I own the company. She called and it was me who answered.

I told her the claims she had were BS. She said how do you know. I then informed her, i was the guy at her house. She instantly shut up. I told her to do me a favor and lose my number.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

bartnc37 said:


> I used to try and go by the customers is always right but seriously they're not. I had a customer call and tell my boss I was swearing, screaming, and throwing things against the walls while changing a flapper. It almost got me fired. I can see the bosses side, i mean who would make that crap up,


There are plenty of jaded folks who utilize lies to hurt others.


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## robwilliams (May 6, 2011)

HOT H2O said:


> Here is a small question of morals. What would you do?
> 
> I am a small company, don't advertise much, keep it pretty local. I may do roughly 30 calls per month. In the past couple months I have heard from my customers on two separate occasions where they called "local big company" with all the ads, and the shinny new service trucks. Their tech/techs is collecting money and performing no service.
> 
> ...



I can't believe the Tech had the balls to ask a customer what she had to drink. And then, ask for another one for the road. I would never ask a customer for anything, except our money when we are done with the job. It is just plain rude.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

robwilliams said:


> I can't believe the Tech had the balls to ask a customer what she had to drink. And then, ask for another one for the road. I would never ask a customer for anything, except our money when we are done with the job. It is just plain rude.


Ehh, stay out of it. If the story is true, the phone calls will eventually come in from other clients. If this lady is nuts, you'll know soon enough. If you didn't see it happen, you don't really have anything to say but gossip.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Well this thread took a peculiarly weird turn. 

Let's get back to the topic shall we?


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