# I foresee danger.



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

The city wants me to try and unkink my stuck cable by hand. I have two loops in the 4” tap. So the plan is to fold and clamp the cable to itself and use a metal bar to unwind it.

One thing I learned is to respect the stored energy in your cable. I’ve had a 5/8” cable wrap around my thumb. Not fun. I have two laundry lines on the way to this nightmare before I meet with the city. LL is a lawyer so I’m thinking of asking her to draft up a contract for this idiot city worker to sign making him liable for any injury and lost wages. 

Not looking forward to tomorrow.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I wonder if a hole hog would be safer.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OpenSights said:


> The city wants me to try and unkink my stuck cable by hand. I have* two loops* in the 4” tap. So the plan is to fold and clamp the cable to itself and use a metal bar to unwind it.
> 
> One thing I learned is to respect the stored energy in your cable. I’ve had a 5/8” cable wrap around my thumb. Not fun. I have two laundry lines on the way to this nightmare before I meet with the city. *LL* is a lawyer so I’m thinking of asking her to draft up a contract for this idiot city worker to sign making him liable for any injury and lost wages.
> 
> Not looking forward to tomorrow.


 










Two loops? What is that? LL? What is that?

My advice is: get {2} or {3} men to help you and pull by hand like in a tug-of-war. I've done that and with others helping pull by hand, I've retrieved a stuck cable.

If that doesn't work, then tell the city it has to be excavated, because as you state, the energy force put on a cable that is tethered to a truck that is pulling on the cable is enormous. And if the cable snaps, it can kill someone. You don't want that so try by hand first. Then excavate if need be. 

If the city whines, cite safety concerns as the reason for not tugging on the line with a vehicle.

I wish you all the best.


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## Oorgnid (Apr 5, 2016)

I believe LL stands for land lord. When he says two loops, he’s talking about how his cable is pretzeled. Only guesses on my end.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Oorgnid said:


> I believe LL stands for land lord. When he says two loops, he’s talking about how his cable is pretzeled. Only guesses on my end.


100% correct.

City guy doesn’t want me to yank it out. I’ve used a car jack and vice grips, but that won’t work with this setup. I’ve also used a come-along, but in both cases that was to bring an 6” root mass through a 4”. I’ve never been this pretzeled up in anything but a manhole. That was easy.

Now excavation is nearly impossible because the city line runs directly under the house and the stack drops straight into it, tee on it’s back. 

Hindsight I should’ve just snapped my cable, not be the nice guy and work with them. Should have known better than to communicate with them.

The douche I’m dealing with is an idiot, even according to his coworkers. My stance is was done wrong over 100 years ago. He didn’t put his line there, my LL didn’t build her house over the city main. My cable did what it would do in a 16” main. It’s both our problem. But they’re washing their hands of it.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Any suggestions are more than welcome. I’m a firm believer that it’s impossible to know or have seen everything in our trade.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

How deep are we talking?

Just thinking here, could you get to it from manhole with a retriever and pull it out that way?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

89plumbum said:


> How deep are we talking?
> 
> Just thinking here, could you get to it from manhole with a retriever and pull it out that way?


City said yes than no.

11.5’ under the house’s foundation and 15 1/2’ under a shared driveway.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I honestly don’t see this resolved tomorrow unless a miracle happens.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Man a come along for me. A lesson learned here. For sure rework your contract to cover anything like this. Even if you get the cable out still sounds like an issue. Dang city should be takin care of the their "main" period.

Is it all possible to re-route the main around the dwelling? Sounds like a pain since it most likely has about 2% fall.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Off topic but years ago back in the late 70's I heard about a house that was built over a pressurized sewer main, while the family was out of town the main
broke open under the slab floor and flooded the whole house a couple feet deep
with the raw sewage, that is what the family came home too,


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> Off topic but years ago back in the late 70's I heard about a house that was built over a pressurized sewer main, while the family was out of town the main
> broke open under the slab floor and flooded the whole house a couple feet deep
> with the raw sewage, that is what the family came home too,


I heard of something similar happening down in Detroit, but it wasn’t a pressurized line, someone flipped the wrong switch and turned off a lift station pump. According to the HO anyway.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

GAN said:


> Man a come along for me. A lesson learned here. For sure rework your contract to cover anything like this. Even if you get the cable out still sounds like an issue. Dang city should be takin care of the their "main" period.
> 
> Is it all possible to re-route the main around the dwelling? Sounds like a pain since it most likely has about 2% fall.


Well it’s my cable, but over one hundred years ago some jack wad said, “sure you can build a house here” now we’re stuck with that decision. 

It went pretty well today, but the issue hasn’t been 100% solved. I brought my grinder and hole hog down. The cable is a .55 so I had to grind the end of my cable down to fit in the chuck. Cable snapped on the first attempt however I felt a change in the cable. Put the camera down and it looked worse in the 4”. Ground down again, right at the second failure, again at the drill, the cable shot down into the stack. I was able to reach in and pull a few feet out. Sent the camera down to see all the kinks and twists are in the city. Called the city guy who talked with his supervisor and called back. They’re going to retrieve it now, however their machine is down and on the back burner at the moment. I might offer to fix it for them if they don’t charge me.

Needless to say I’m not taking calls tonight. I have my first home made, not from a kit, apple blueberry cider in the fermenter. I couldn’t get an OG, but speculating it was around 1.050 and now reads .998 yesterday and today. So once my kid is done in the tub it’s sanitation time, bottling bucket and bottles. Going to be dry, but by design... or was at least hopping for.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> Well it’s my cable, but over one hundred years ago some jack wad said, “sure you can build a house here” now we’re stuck with that decision.
> 
> It went pretty well today, but the issue hasn’t been 100% solved. I brought my grinder and hole hog down. The cable is a .55 so I had to grind the end of my cable down to fit in the chuck. Cable snapped on the first attempt however I felt a change in the cable. Put the camera down and it looked worse in the 4”. Ground down again, right at the second failure, again at the drill, the cable shot down into the stack. I was able to reach in and pull a few feet out. Sent the camera down to see all the kinks and twists are in the city. Called the city guy who talked with his supervisor and called back. They’re going to retrieve it now, however their machine is down and on the back burner at the moment. I might offer to fix it for them if they don’t charge me.
> 
> Needless to say I’m not taking calls tonight. I have my first home made, not from a kit, apple blueberry cider in the fermenter. I couldn’t get an OG, but speculating it was around 1.050 and now reads .998 yesterday and today. So once my kid is done in the tub it’s sanitation time, bottling bucket and bottles. Going to be dry, but by design... or was at least hopping for.


You should have told the city guy you were able to retrieve your whole cable and let him know your cable was wrapped around an existing cable someone else left in the main. You could have been free and clear.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Not looking good now. Last time I call the ****ing city if this happens again assuming I’m still in business after this.

I’m too stressed to make a detailed post. Might end up going to the lawyers. Even talked to two today.


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

F**k sights don’t leave us hanging,
You need to have something in your agreement to protect yourself.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

Oh man, good luck. Hope everything works out for you. This is why my company doesn't do drain cleaning anymore, unless it's one of our big contracts. 
We do site work if you need the sewer moved lol.


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## Oorgnid (Apr 5, 2016)

Damn, sorry to hear. Any input from your master?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

```
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Oorgnid said:


> Damn, sorry to hear. Any input from your master?


Lots!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Sorry to hear the troubles that you're having, I hope it all works out well for you open sights.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Fatpat said:


> F**k sights don’t leave us hanging,
> You need to have something in your agreement to protect yourself.


I was a tad too upset to post about it yesterday. I got a call back from my insurance company today, kinda good/bad. Should be getting a call from an adjuster within two days. What my ins middleman told me today was that if there is no damage, nothing broken, it won’t be covered until it becomes a problem, backed up city main. 

City isn’t going to accept that, and I am 99% sure when it does back up the city won’t jet it with my cable and we’ll have to pay for someone who can jet a 16”.

I told the lady that this is probably going to involve lawyers and a lawsuit. She kinda perked up when I said that. I don’t think I’ll be able to get there tomorrow, but plan on Friday morning to video the surrounding properties, no cost to my customer, just to get the layout.

Another thing I’m going to do is run a colored rope from the center of manhole to the mark the city guy made in the driveway. We all know the liability of mislocating a line. While he didn’t actually use a camera and locator, just a map on a computer, he still said “this is where my line is.” The location he gave suggest it does go under the very back corner of the house, but not dead center of the house on that side where my stack is.

I’m actually getting excited and nervous about this. If I can prove liability is on the city and not my cable I’m going to be putting them in their rightful place. I doubt it if this goes to court I could counter sue for my cable and hours dealing with this. Doubt it, and I’m not sure if it will teach them a lesson or put a target on my back.

To top off my luck, I’m typing this on my phone because only half of my screen on my iPad is responding. Thankfully I have insurance on that too.


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## Oorgnid (Apr 5, 2016)

How’d you make out?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

In contact with a company out of Detroit, old coworker of my Master. Sounds like a good guy and interested in the challenge. We’re not planning anything till spring.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

FWIW, if you get your cable stuck, make sure you do damage! Otherwise you’re not covered.


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## plumberinlaw (Jan 13, 2010)

If you need more power I have an eel 325 and 300' of cable you can send up from a manhole with a retriever on it I am outside of Detroit.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

plumberinlaw said:


> If you need more power I have an eel 325 and 300' of cable you can send up from a manhole with a retriever on it I am outside of Detroit.


I might just take you up on that! The company I’ve been in contact with down there is Michigan Power Rodding. I guess they have a crawler to see what our options are. 

If you’re into craft beer you’ll be getting a good tip!


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## plumberinlaw (Jan 13, 2010)

They are out of AA I am about 20 miles farther away.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

With Detroit traffic that could be an extra hour drive time!


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## plumberinlaw (Jan 13, 2010)

I just google maped Grand Ledge, less than 1.5 hours away if the roads are clear. I am within 1 mile of I96.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

It’s actually in downtown Lansing on east kilborn. About a mile north of the capital building, so closer to you then Grand Ledge.

I do have a k1500, but I have yet to buy new cables for it. The inner core of the lengths has separated, basically making them hollow core. I’m not confident enough in my larger equipment to be successful in pulling the cable out and possibly making the situation worse.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

How far is the closest manhole?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

gear junkie said:


> How far is the closest manhole?


According to the city, who has proved miss location already... 60’.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

OpenSights said:


> According to the city, who has proved miss location already... 60’.


Thats it? Get some sewer rods and your camera and hook it out and bring it back to the manhole


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## WashingtonPlung (Jul 25, 2016)

I am very curious how this all plays out. Best of luck Opensights.


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## WashingtonPlung (Jul 25, 2016)

Did this ever get resolved? Or is it now gone to the lawyers?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

No progress yet. We’re waiting till spring to try and yank it out of the city via manhole. I’ll be taking plenty of pictures on D day.

No lawyers, everyone I’ve talked to has said the same thing, governmental immunity.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

You resolve this opensights... like junkie said a blower and some rods gas tester would've gone down man hole to fetch cable with hand rods


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

OpenSights said:


> I wonder if a hole hog would be safer.


Yes


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## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

What a $hitstorm. Good luck sights, you'll get it. The one piece of advice I will say is too late now, but put heavy wet towels or carpet or something over your cable if you use a come along. I walked in on a tech who had his duracable stretched to a strait wire in his desperation.


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## WashingtonPlung (Jul 25, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> No progress yet. We’re waiting till spring to try and yank it out of the city via manhole. I’ll be taking plenty of pictures on D day.
> 
> No lawyers, everyone I’ve talked to has said the same thing, governmental immunity.


Almost 2 years later, how was this resolved?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

WashingtonPlung said:


> Almost 2 years later, how was this resolved?


Shhhhh. No problems yet. Only the LL knows it’s still down there, the city will never know if there’s a problem. Only two houses, both owned by the LL. 

At this point it’s not an issue and I’d hate to make the situation worse. I told her I wasn’t charging her and will take care of any blockage in the future at no charge.


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