# Jet pump switch



## IanBrown (Dec 15, 2011)

A plumber I work with went on a call to a chattering switch on a jet pump today and when he changed the switch it keeps doing it. It's not loosing water on the well or house side of the pump and the nipple the switch is on is clean. He also took the pump apart and cleaned everything out and it seems to be working properly but the switch keeps chattering. I don't know if it matters or not but it's a slightly gravity fed well and the pressure tank is a galvanized one. Any ideas of what's happening?


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Check power for both legs?.....


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

I assume this tank is ancient?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Your pressure tank is water logged... Change tank to a precharged one


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

drain it and recharge the air, you do not have a pressure tank you have a storage tank


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## IanBrown (Dec 15, 2011)

The tank was drained and filled with air still chattered not sure how old it is I haven't been on the job yet it could be new I live in an area where some people still like the galvanized tanks and put them in new. I'll have to look into the power though I'm not sure if he looked at that


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

IanBrown said:


> The tank was drained and filled with air still chattered not sure how old it is I haven't been on the job yet it could be new I live in an area where some people still like the galvanized tanks and put them in new. I'll have to look into the power though I'm not sure if he looked at that


LoL... 
You filled it while it was drained


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

IanBrown said:


> The tank was drained and filled with air still chattered not sure how old it is I haven't been on the job yet it could be new I live in an area where some people still like the galvanized tanks and put them in new. I'll have to look into the power though I'm not sure if he looked at that



Running on one leg of the 240 will do that just like a bad tank.:thumbsup:


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

What is the pressure switch set for? What did you charge the tank to? Did you close the valve to the house and actually check the air charge or just put a compressor on it and call it charged? It's sounding waterlogged as said before. 

It's not an electrical problem I can just about promise you that.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Also, where is the pressure switch located in relation to the pressure tank?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> Running on one leg of the 240 will do that just like a bad tank.:thumbsup:


That's impossible

my take on the situation: the tank could be waterlogged and if it's a diagphram tank it should be replaced. If it's a galvanized tank it should be refilled with air- and ensure a proper air-volume valve is installed. 

The tank could be to far away from the switch- how far are they apart? 

If the tank and switch are close together you might got a bad diaphram tank or a galvy tank with improper air charge. 

Also the air pressure in the tank could be to high that will cause short cycling- make sure the air pressure is 2 PSI below the cut-In pressure.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> That's impossible
> 
> my take on the situation: the tank could be waterlogged and if it's a diagphram tank it should be replaced. If it's a galvanized tank it should be refilled with air- and ensure a proper air-volume valve is installed.
> 
> ...


Impossible?....no. I have corrected this problem a few times already this year...old wiring in old houses and the neutral gets a bit loose in the panel.
I have also replaced several waterlogged tanks causing it too.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> Impossible?....no. I have corrected this problem a few times already this year...old wiring in old houses and the neutral gets a bit loose in the panel.
> I have also replaced several waterlogged tanks causing it too.


 a 240 volt appliance can't operate on just one leg. A 240 volt circuit for a pump doesn't have a neutral, a 120 volt circuit does 

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Impossible?....no. I have corrected this problem a few times already this year...old wiring in old houses and the neutral gets a bit loose in the panel.
> I have also replaced several waterlogged tanks causing it too.


Neutral?


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> a 240 volt appliance can't operate on just one leg. A 240 volt circuit for a pump doesn't have a neutral, a 120 volt circuit does
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


I'm talking about the neutral in the main panel...off the service line.
And no it can't operate on one leg, but the switch will sit and click...


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I try and stay out of panels but I have never seen a neutral wire loose on anything before where a lug is involved. Not sure even on aluminum wires.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> a 240 volt appliance can't operate on just one leg. A 240 volt circuit for a pump doesn't have a neutral, a 120 volt circuit does
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


I believe you are mistaken MP.

I have a 240v table saw that will run at a low speed when one leg of the power is dead.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> I'm talking about the neutral in the main panel...off the service line.
> And no it can't operate on one leg, but the switch will sit and click...


You sure you weren't tapping your feet waiting for it to work?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> I believe you are mistaken MP.
> 
> I have a 240v table saw that will run at a low speed when one leg of the power is dead.


I bet it has a capacitor that is being taxed. Hell i'm no Electrician.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> I'm talking about the neutral in the main panel...off the service line.
> And no it can't operate on one leg, but the switch will sit and click...


Yes the switch will still open and close but it won't make a short cycling type noise. And there's no neutral on a 240 circuit. But on a 120 circuit there is, but ive never seen a loose neutral, I've seen loose connections on the back of the pump motor do to vibrations. I rarely see pumps being ran off 120 here, mostly 240 which is ALOT better.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> I try and stay out of panels but I have never seen a neutral wire loose on anything before where a lug is involved. Not sure even on aluminum wires.


Seriously?....it happens. Voltage has a certain amount of vibration at the panel coming in....old houses can have the lug work loose after a long time...

This area has some really old panels....if I see it, I have them call an electrician...they pop the meter to tighten, but I did see one guy do it with a VERY long screwdriver once...I don't go near them....that voltage can jump out and find you in a hurry.:yes:


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Its the relay delay!:furious:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> I believe you are mistaken MP.
> 
> I have a 240v table saw that will run at a low speed when one leg of the power is dead.


 current cannot flow without both legs connected, it's impossible. Unless it is a 120/240 appliance which then it's possible. that's what your table saw is I bet speed would be decreased when operated on 120

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I thought about becoming a sparky at one time, but when I relised you had to be a **** to be one I changed my mind :laughing:

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> current cannot flow without both legs connected, it's impossible. Unless it is a 120/240 appliance which then it's possible. that's what your table saw is I bet speed would be decreased when operated on 120
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



Go pull a leg on your clothes dryer....drum will turn, but element will not heat...


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> I thought about becoming a sparky at one time, but when I relised you had to be a **** to be one I changed my mind :laughing:
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



I'm a ****.:thumbsup:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> Go pull a leg on your clothes dryer....drum will turn, but element will not heat...


Exactly because it's a 120/240 appliance
A 240 appliance will do nothing with a leg disconnected

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Go pull a leg on your clothes dryer....drum will turn, but element will not heat...


I don't think the motor is 220.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> I'm a ****.:thumbsup:


With the new pic. I thought you were transgendered?


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Seriously guys, I have corrected this issue....it happens...

Just retain the knowledge....it's all about sharing experiences here.:thumbup:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

To the OP

It's one of two things 

The tank is water logged or there is a fitting or nipple plugged up go into the tank

The pressure switch is activated by water pressure if it's moving on it's own that means the water pressure is getting to the switch .. There for working

Pink the power going to the switch would not cause it to chatter... It's like a light switch it's either open or closed....it's the water pressure that's causing the switch to open and close ... Not the voltage


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> To the OP
> 
> It's one of two things
> 
> ...


Exactly what I was thinking. The only thing that will cause the pressure switch contactors to pull together and apart is the water pressure.

Intermittent voltage loss could cause the pump to turn on and off when uncalled for, but a short cycle from a pressure problem is very distinct and predictable.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> To the OP
> 
> It's one of two things
> 
> ...



No disrepect intended old school, but I have corrected this by having the electrician come and tighten the neutral lug more than once...
It's really a freak thing...but I know I wasn't dreaming it.....however, they usually have electrical symptoms all over the house as well.

More than not though, it IS the tank.....:thumbup:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

A 240 pump doesn't have a neutral, but a 120 pump does.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> A 240 pump doesn't have a neutral, but a 120 pump does.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



THINK.....there is a NEUTRAL at the PANEL....not at the pump....this is what i am talking about..:blink: If that neutral isn't contacting firmly, everything goes haywire beyond the panel.....if that neutral isn't contacting at all....no power to anything beyond it.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> THINK.....there is a NEUTRAL at the PANEL....not at the pump....this is what i am talking about..:blink: If that neutral isn't contacting firmly, everything goes haywire beyond the panel.....if that neutral isn't contacting at all....no power to anything beyond it.


That neutral doesnt effect the pump because the pump is a 240 pump, 120 circuits are effected but not 240 circuits. If u got a 120 pump it's effected but not 240 pumps 

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

Check the amp draw of both legs and for current leakage to ground, both will cause contact chatter and are signs of impending motor failure.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> That neutral doesnt effect the pump because the pump is a 240 pump, 120 circuits are effected but not 240 circuits. If u got a 120 pump it's effected but not 240 pumps
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



WHAT??.....so you are saying if the neutral at the house panel is not making contact, the pump will still function?
Because that means no power AT ALL beyond the panel.:wallbash:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Power flows back to the source on the neutral- the center tap on the trans at the substation. 

The hot legs are what bring power in. You got 120 on each leg to ground and 240 between each leg, a 120 appliance can't operate with no neutral, neither can a 120/240 appliance- but the 240 part of it will. now a 240 appliance has no neutral so there for if the neutral is bad it has no effect on it.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> Power flows back to the source on the neutral- the center tap on the trans at the substation.
> 
> The hot legs are what bring power in. You got 120 on each leg to ground and 240 between each leg, a 120 appliance can't operate with no neutral, neither can a 120/240 appliance- but the 240 part of it will. now a 240 appliance has no neutral so there for if the neutral is bad it has no effect on it.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty



What more can I do to prove this? nothing.....:1eye:
Would rather be your friend than argue about it...:thumbup:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

This might be the next "great electrical debate" of our generation! 
:laughing:

Since I have a healthy respect (read: FEAR) for electricity, and know nothing of the theory, I can provide nothing other than low grade humour to this thread...

But I'm sure at some point, either Protech or Redwood (maybe both as they both seem quite educated on the topic) will be around to tell you you're both wrong!

:laughing: :laughing:


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

U666A said:


> This might be the next "great electrical debate" of our generation!
> :laughing:
> 
> Since I have a healthy respect (read: FEAR) for electricity, and know nothing of the theory, I can provide nothing other than low grade humour to this thread...
> ...


If I am wrong, then the one's I have fixed shouldn't have worked!....could have been gremlins...


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

PinkPlumber said:


> Running on one leg of the 240 will do that just like a bad tank.:thumbsup:


 running on one leg it would never build pressure and shut off. Stick around 30 pounds and keep pumping.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Pink, basically you are saying if a 220 volt circuit has no ground it will not operate. 

By saying so you are incorrect.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> Pink, basically you are saying if a 220 volt circuit has no ground it will not operate.
> 
> By saying so you are incorrect.


Exactly, Thank you

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Ok....I'll keep fixing them...

So you are saying that if you pull the neutral to a house's service panel, the pump with work? :blink:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Ok....I'll keep fixing them...
> 
> So you are saying that if you pull the neutral to a house's service panel, the pump with work? :blink:


If it is 220.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> Ok....I'll keep fixing them...
> 
> So you are saying that if you pull the neutral to a house's service panel, the pump with work? :blink:


Yes.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

AWWGH said:


> Yes.



:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:....Ok guys...


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:....Ok guys...


For years 220v pumps had no ground, no wire to your ever so important neutral.
Just saying.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> For years 220v pumps had no ground, no wire to your ever so important neutral.
> Just saying.


Yup, yup 

240 appliances need no neutral.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Pink, Think of 240 volt water heaters, there's no neutral. So therefor it will operate even if the service entrances neutral is bad. 

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

ok ok...you can win....not trying to create hard feelings...life's too short dude..:thumbup:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> ok ok...you can win....not trying to create hard feelings...life's too short dude..:thumbup:


LMAO, you may not be a typical woman but you are a typical woman. You CAN win...HA!


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> LMAO, you may not be a typical woman but you are a typical woman. You CAN win...HA!



It's just not worth stressing over...none of us are electricians, so who really gives a donkey's winkie?.....let's just all love one another and play nice.:rockon:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Just stay away from the Ice cream coolers Pink.....


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Airgap said:


> Just stay away from the Ice cream coolers Pink.....


Haha Haha I get jokes, they're funny!

:laughing:


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