# Urinal puzzlement



## pipefighter (Sep 26, 2009)

Kohler peanut wall hung urinal, 34" c/c from back to back lavs. Both lavs drain fine, urinal doesn't.
Pulled urinal and ran 6+ feet of cable (K-50). Cleared two blockages. Poured water in urinal, water ran out. Re-hung urinal. Blocked.
Pulled urinal, re rodded drain. Attempted to run 3/16" cable (no head) through urinal, but it wouldn't clear the first turn. No evident blockage in urinal (dental mirror). Switched gasket from wax to rubber although neither the outlet or the flange was blocked.
Re-hung urinal....blocked. Fills halfway through flush with supply barely cracked open. I'm assuming blockage at top of vent crown, but water runs through it when it's off the wall. The flange holes line up perfectly so I'm sure the outlet is aligned. Am I missing something before I buy a new urinal? There is absolutely no drainage. It doesn't seep slowly down... it just don't drain at all.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Sounds like the drain is still backed up, run more cable, biggest head you can get. 

I like to use a bulb head, and try to flush line with water before rehanging urinal. It's been my experience that urinal salts can be very hard to clear effectively without several runs of cable and a flush of water.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm sure you checked the urinal for an internal blockage


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Did you check the vent?


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## pipefighter (Sep 26, 2009)

6 foot of cable in a 34" waste arm would put me three feet into the drain, and the lavs are draining. After the second auger, I pushed the cable back in by hand, without the machine. I ran water through the urinal when it was off the wall and it drained through, couldn't see any blockage with a mirror and felt nothing with a finger in the trap, but couldn't reach the crown.
Also, the urinal fills immediately with a low volume flush. With 34" of waste arm it shouldn't fill that quick. Thinking maybe I have a rotating blockage? Some type of bottle cap or something lodged in the crown acting like a check valve...
That's my analysis. What's your analysis? (groan)


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

pipefighter said:


> 6 foot of cable in a 34" waste arm would put me three feet into the drain, and the lavs are draining. After the second auger, I pushed the cable back in by hand, without the machine. I ran water through the urinal when it was off the wall and it drained through, couldn't see any blockage with a mirror and felt nothing with a finger in the trap, but couldn't reach the crown. Also, the urinal fills immediately with a low volume flush. With 34" of waste arm it shouldn't fill that quick. Thinking maybe I have a rotating blockage? Some type of bottle cap or something lodged in the crown acting like a check valve... That's my analysis. What's your analysis? (groan)


I'm holding the line on there still being a blockage. I say this because the situation you are describing has happens to me almost every time I have a urinal blockage. Urinal drains fine when off the wall. I snake the drain and clear some thing. Soon as I hang the urinal it doesn't work. 

This is why I won't rehang a urinal until I've run water in the drain. At times I can hook up a hose and run it, other times I've jammed a wax ring on the connector and shoved an elbow in it and dumped a bucket of water while having the shop vac catch the mess. Point is, until I know the line is clear I don't waste the time rehanging the urinal, because every time I do I have to pull the damn thing off the wall again.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> I'm holding the line on there still being a blockage. I say this because the situation you are describing has happens to me almost every time I have a urinal blockage. Urinal drains fine when off the wall. I snake the drain and clear some thing. Soon as I hang the urinal it doesn't work.
> 
> This is why I won't rehang a urinal until I've run water in the drain. At times I can hook up a hose and run it, other times I've jammed a wax ring on the connector and shoved an elbow in it and dumped a bucket of water while having the shop vac catch the mess. Point is, until I know the line is clear I don't waste the time rehanging the urinal, because every time I do I have to pull the damn thing off the wall again.


Which is why those kind of urinal shud be outlawed... p trap urinal is the way to go without any further damage to wall and flaushvalve, etc


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Which is why those kind of urinal shud be outlawed... p trap urinal is the way to go without any further damage to wall and flaushvalve, etc


Urinals are proof that low flow is not good.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Urinals are proof that low flow is not good.


As well those waterless ones.. heard they are yanking them out around crook county


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Never pull a urinal and rod or jet without doing this before rehanging it.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

422 plumber said:


> Never pull a urinal and rod or jet without doing this before rehanging it.


That is a great setup. I'm going to make one for myself.


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## SERVICEPLUM (Nov 21, 2013)

When urinal is off wall fill he urinal with water.... If it doesn't drain it's the urinal! No guessing if urinal is bad then


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> That is a great setup. I'm going to make one for myself.


All you need is a tailpiece, a 1-1/4" x 3/4" coupling, a 3/4" shank hosebib, a vacuum breaker, a 10' s.s. Flexi washing machine hose and various size Sioux Chief plugs. I also have set ups for lavs as well, instead of plugs I use threaded couplings.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> Never pull a urinal and rod or jet without doing this before rehanging it.


I like how you made sure to use a vacuum breaker. This is a good idea though. I like the expansion test plug you've adapted to use for flushing the line. That's good engineering.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Those expansion test plugs have hose threads on the shank. You drill through the shank or cut it off. I have 1-1/2" x 3/4" and 1-1/4" x 3/4" couplings I use on lavs or other smaller diameter drains.

Sioux Chief makes some cool stuff, I hope this link works.





http://youtu.be/39ZbiUKMKIk


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## pipefighter (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanx all.. I'm definitely getting the test titan from Sioux Chief. I was worried about flooding the bathroom while flushing the line and assumed the line clear when the snake went in by hand. This thing will allow me to flush the line with minimum mess.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

422 plumber said:


> Those expansion test plugs have hose threads on the shank. You drill through the shank or cut it off. I have 1-1/2" x 3/4" and 1-1/4" x 3/4" couplings I use on lavs or other smaller diameter drains.
> 
> Sioux Chief makes some cool stuff, I hope this link works.
> 
> ...


422, why the expansion plug? Why not just put a hose in the pipe?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

After you get done flushing, unscrew the hose from the vacuum breaker. Slowly lower it down below the plug, pointing it into a bucket. If any water flows into the bucket, it means the line is still blocked. Now you can contain the water and let it flow into the bucket. Once it quits draining, remove the plug and rod it again. I really like this method, because it removes the guesswork. No more hanging and pulling the urinal repeatedly.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> 422, why the expansion plug? Why not just put a hose in the pipe?


Because this way there is absolutely no mess, and no guesswork. You can open the valve all the way. I deal with a lot of places where they used 150# banded galvanized fittings, there is no sweep to them and it's hard to get the hose past a 90 and to drop down the tee.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Exactly what kinda plug is that ?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Never mind. I see


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

422 plumber said:


> Never pull a urinal and rod or jet without doing this before rehanging it.


Nice Rig! :thumbup:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Nice Rig! :thumbup:


Ben (Gear Junkie) and Bill Parr were the inspirations for it. They made up some rigs for kitchen sinks, and their ideas inspired me. To paraphrase Sir Isaac Newton, I am just standing on the shoulders of giants. I would love to market this, and give Ben and Bill royalties. That is how valuable this rig has been to me. Every time I use it, my customers are just blown away. I do a lot of work at nuke plants, and some very, very smart engineers have seen it, and been impressed that a yahoo like me could come up with that. I just tell them that I am too dumb to quit.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Well hell in that case I should show you undersink contraption ver 5.0. Best one yet.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> Well hell in that case I should show you undersink contraption ver 5.0. Best one yet.


Please do! Ben, young guys like you who build better mousetraps are a reason for hope for our trade and for our country.

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