# Called out on color of pex



## sheeptown44 (Oct 31, 2010)

Has anyone been called out for say having a hot line that was blue or similar situation.Had inspector have me change it less than 10 feet. Even though i had tagged it hot water from w.h. right is right I guess.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

The only time I have used an off color was in a place only bugs and mice will see. I have however used white on many occasions, as the inconvenience of buying all those different colors was prohibitive. 

I know its within the power of an inspector to make you improve something based on quality, but that little bit is Horse Pucky. What does he care if it is not colored accordingly, its all approved for the same dang thing.

Inspectors around here, might get confused looking at all the different colors. In these rural counties, we try and keep it simple. :smartass:


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

It's not really good practice to mix colors, but I have done it numerous times. Basically it's screws the future plumber who has to work on it. I don't see the big deal, copper is all one color, so is galvanized, cpvc, etc.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

No code against it in my area (though I avoid mixing colors). I would tell him to go pound sand.

He doesn't get to make up codes as he sees fit.



sheeptown44 said:


> Has anyone been called out for say having a hot line that was blue or similar situation.Had inspector have me change it less than 10 feet. Even though i had tagged it hot water from w.h. right is right I guess.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Protech said:


> ...He doesn't get to make up codes as he sees fit...


Unfortunately they do. The IPC and the old BOCA both give the local jurisdiction the authority to supersede the code as they see fit.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

If the local town, village, city, etc. wants to go above and beyond the code, they have the authority to do so. As has been said here many times, the code book is only the minimum. The local AHJ can raise the standards if they want to.

I just finished a second rough in a condomnium and that village doesn't allow pvc in a vertical stack. I cut out some cast iron tees and replaced with cast iron tees; I would not have been able to replace with pvc tees. I know the code allows pvc as an approved dwv material, but I will not argue with an inspector over it. If that village wants only cast iron in a vertical stack, you have to give it to them.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Unfortunately they do. The IPC and the old BOCA both give the local jurisdiction the authority to supersede the code as they see fit.


 

Agreed. Some towns state this on the permit, "Inspector has final say with regard to code interpretation. " Or words to that effect.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

I only stock white


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

You guy's quote some passage that states that an inspector could require a plumber to exceed the code without a local amendment. I am not aware of any.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> If the local town, village, city, etc. wants to go above and beyond the code, they have the authority to do so. As has been said here many times, the code book is only the minimum. The local AHJ can raise the standards if they want to.
> 
> I just finished a second rough in a condomnium and that village doesn't allow pvc in a vertical stack. I cut out some cast iron tees and replaced with cast iron tees; I would not have been able to replace with pvc tees. I know the code allows pvc as an approved dwv material, but I will not argue with an inspector over it. If that village wants only cast iron in a vertical stack, you have to give it to them.


It would be more like the local town or village idiot....

An inspector can only enforce codes or bylaws.... he can not create law or code..... If some one told you this they are full of BS....

It would be no different than a cop giving you a ticket for something that was not written into law..... he can't......

I always tell the inspector.... if that is the case show me in the code were it says that.... If he cant produce the section of code then tough luck for him...

Dont be such a push over..... You are all growin men ... stand up for yourself


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I was more diplomatic.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

slickrick said:


> I was more diplomatic.


Me diplomatic :laughing: *Nope*


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Actually a locality can "create laws" as long as it is a "stricter or improvement of the code". They just can't down play the code or go below it. They can change, improve, or make your life hell. That being said, I've never meet a inspector that will not work with me as long as I talk to him, and prove what I'm doing meets code.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Will said:


> Actually a locality can "create laws" as long as it is a "stricter or improvement of the code". They just can't down play the code or go below it. They can change, improve, or make your life hell. That being said, I've never meet a inspector that will not work with me as long as I talk to him, and prove what I'm doing meets code.


That would be considered a bylaw


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Or amendment. Not just because they "say so". I would be their worst nightmare.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Or amendment. Not just because they "say so". I would be their worst nightmare.


I never took no BS from any of them..... you want to fabricate BS then you picked the wrong guy....

Put up or shut is more or less what I tell them.... I have butted heads with this guys so many times ..... now they just dont say much...

I had one inspector tell me in front of an engineer that I could not exceed 1/4" per slope... :laughing: and I had to lower the slope

We were all shocked the inspector would say something so stupid on the job site..... 

So I let him ramble on for a few minutes... then the engineer and I look at each other and finally I tell the inspector.... hey buddy code is minimum not maximum.... then he finally shut up and left...:laughing:


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I never use 2 colors myself (Unless the boss buys it that way) But there is no code I am aware of that says you can not mix colors. Maybe I will try that here on this job just to ruffle his feathers!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

.........In writing. Not, "I just made this up on the spot cuz I don't like the cut of your jib."

If they want to supersede the code, it must be in the form of a local ordinance that is already on the books.



plbgbiz said:


> Unfortunately they do. The IPC and the old BOCA both give the local jurisdiction the authority to supersede the code as they see fit.


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## TopDog (Jun 12, 2010)

Give some guys a little authority and it goes to their head.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

Not to knock you. But what a pickle you put the next guy in if he can not see anything but that section. I think that falls under workmanship and I would have to side with an Inspector on that, depending on location of the run. If the house is red and blue and I need to add a bib I'm going to find a blue, if the house is clear/white I'm going to run some water.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

First house I piped in Pex was red/blue...hated it, felt cheesy to me. All white ever since. One color eliminates the problem of the original post. With some of the handymen around here, I could never trust the colors being right if I had to go back behind somebody else...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Protech said:


> ...If they want to supersede the code, it must be in the form of a local ordinance that is already on the books...


That sounds nice but it is not the reality. Not here.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> That sounds nice but it is not the reality. Not here.


This is interesting, could you give us an example of where the inspector required you to exceed the code?

I have worked in Tulsa, but not OKC,with no problems.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

PlumberDave said:


> Not to knock you. But what a pickle you put the next guy in if he can not see anything but that section. I think that falls under workmanship and I would have to side with an Inspector on that, depending on location of the run. If the house is red and blue and I need to add a bib I'm going to find a blue, if the house is clear/white I'm going to run some water.


Why not just act like a plumber, and locate a cold water line?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I just repiped a 3 bath house out of white wirsbo. I had been running colored pex, but being an attic repipe I chose wirsbo because I feel it handles freezes better than pex, but my supplier did not have the colors in stock. I like my piping run square, measured in and strapped tastefully etc. I have found over time that customers like feeling they have the latest technology out and they LIKE THE COLORS. That's the feedback I've gotten so I go with it.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

slickrick said:


> This is interesting, could you give us an example of where the inspector required you to exceed the code?


Last week we were turned down for a water heater because the inspector decided to require hammer arrestors. If there are none in the house we have to add them when replacing a water heater. New rule. No notice. No recourse.

The explaination given to another plumber was "because the chief inspector thinks it is a good idea".


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Last week we were turned down for a water heater because the inspector decided to require hammer arrestors. If there are none in the house we have to add them when replacing a water heater. New rule. No notice. No recourse.
> 
> The explaination given to another plumber was "because the chief inspector thinks it is a good idea".


That still doesn't mean it is law.... I would call the cheif building inspector and inform him of his mistake and if he really did think it was needed that he should have city council make an admendment to the city bylaw or ordanice......

Some people think they have the authority to do what ever they want .... what you need is people to set them straight


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Last week we were turned down for a water heater because the inspector decided to require hammer arrestors. If there are none in the house we have to add them when replacing a water heater. New rule. No notice. No recourse.
> 
> The explaination given to another plumber was "because the chief inspector thinks it is a good idea".


I would be scheduling a meeting with the Building Official and Chief Plumbing Inspector. If a few of you guy's would get together, you could put a stop to that nonsense. Everyone answers to someone. If you sit back and take it, it's bad for everyone.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I was the Chief Plumbing Inspector. It's not as simple as "because I say so"


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I don't understand the reasoning behind the water hammer arrestors. That's just what they want. I was told it was for "thermal expansion:blink:" :laughing: Why not just require expansion tanks? 

I was told it was only for new construction, guess they are enforcing it on all Water Heaters now. Pointless imo. 

John, word on the street is the chief maybe stepping down soon. Atleast that is what I heard.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> Being an attic repipe I chose wirsbo because I feel it handles freezes better than pex.


Nope it can burst from freezing just like any other PEX...


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*Thxx RW*

Man what happened to the 100% memory and cross link chemistry???? I have seen wirsbo blister from freezing but no bursts as of yet. One thing I do on top of insulating piping is to also cover with houses insulation trying to keep some warmth on the lines.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Any pex will split if the length of tubing is 4" between fittings. 








Paul


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Yeah looks stressed


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

PlumberDave said:


> Not to knock you. But what a pickle you put the next guy in if he can not see anything but that section. I think that falls under workmanship and I would have to side with an Inspector on that, depending on location of the run. If the house is red and blue and I need to add a bib I'm going to find a blue, if the house is clear/white I'm going to run some water.


 A good plumber will trace a line back. They won't look at a pipe color and assume that's what it is. Unless it's specifically stenciled or labeled, you take the time to follow it back and CONFIRM what it's serving. What's wrong with following a pipe back and seeing what it's suppose to do. 

You must not do any commercial work. There could be 10 copper lines on a trapeze in a ceiling, all doing different things. Are you going to cut into one because it feels cold? What if it's medical gas, or vacuum? Or the hot line, is it 140 degree hot, 110 degree or 180 degree for a special purpose? Even residentially, assume the customer is on a well, what if there was two blue lines a hard cold and a soft cold. 

I figure out what a plumbing system is doing and have a good understanding before I cut anything. You should trace it back to determine if the tee your cutting in is in a good place where you have adaquate WSFU's. Haphazardly cutting doesn't do anyone any good.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> Any pex will split if the length of tubing is 4" between fittings.
> 
> Paul


Actually 2 - 7 inches is the danger zone


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> A good plumber will trace a line back. They won't look at a pipe color and assume that's what it is. Unless it's specifically stenciled or labeled, you take the time to follow it back and CONFIRM what it's serving. What's wrong with following a pipe back and seeing what it's suppose to do.
> 
> You must not do any commercial work. There could be 10 copper lines on a trapeze in a ceiling, all doing different things. Are you going to cut into one because it feels cold? What if it's medical gas, or vacuum? Or the hot line, is it 140 degree hot, 110 degree or 180 degree for a special purpose? Even residentially, assume the customer is on a well, what if there was two blue lines a hard cold and a soft cold.
> 
> I figure out what a plumbing system is doing and have a good understanding before I cut anything. You should trace it back to determine if the tee your cutting in is in a good place where you have adaquate WSFU's. Haphazardly cutting doesn't do anyone any good.


Good plumbers can think. Red & Blue hello.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> That still doesn't mean it is law.... I would call the cheif building inspector and inform him of his mistake and if he really did think it was needed that he should have city council make an admendment to the city bylaw or ordanice......
> 
> Some people think they have the authority to do what ever they want .... what you need is people to set them straight


 
Agreed. An inspector cannot create laws/codes at will. It has to do with the separation of powers in the states' constitutions. No more than a governor can create a law because he feels like it. Only legislators can make laws. Governors can't. But if the plumber is working in a small town, doesn't know that town's more strict codes, and is running up against an inspector who does, is it really worth the time, effort and energy to battle a small point? It is easier to give him what he wants rather than fight, provided what inspector is asking is not outrageous or unreasonable. 

Rather than lock horns with inspector, I'd rather just make minor adjustment(s) and get my inspection passed, which in turn gets me a check.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I run red and blue PEX.

I've seen a lot of the white get stained from water conditions such as iron...

The colored PEX keeps it hidden nicely...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> ...Rather than lock horns with inspector, I'd rather just make minor adjustment(s) and get my inspection passed, which in turn gets me a check.


 
And therein lies the problem. Right or wrong, the inspector stands between you , your money, and in some instances, your reputation. Win the battle, and you may lose the war.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Agreed. An inspector cannot create laws/codes at will. It has to do with the separation of powers in the states' constitutions. No more than a governor can create a law because he feels like it. Only legislators can make laws. Governors can't. But if the plumber is working in a small town, doesn't know that town's more strict codes, and is running up against an inspector who does, is it really worth the time, effort and energy to battle a small point? It is easier to give him what he wants rather than fight, provided what inspector is asking is not outrageous or unreasonable.
> 
> Rather than lock horns with inspector, I'd rather just make minor adjustment(s) and get my inspection passed, which in turn gets me a check.


When I go to a new jurisdiction, I go to city hall and pick up a copy of the cities amendments, meet the inspector, tell him about my project and what I intend to do. I just don't get red tagged. I have had 2 in 36 yrs. both were on out of town jobs, that I did not meet the inspector, and he tagged me because I was from out of town. 1 was in Dallas. The GC called and said I had 8 items on the tag. When I called the inspector and we went over the items, the conversation went to "Why are you working here?" Because I had a right too! He said " Put a C/O on it " There was already a wall C/O. Green tag. He never gave me a problem after the first time. I don't know much, but I know plumbing, codes and how to apply them. I never get ugly with inspectors, but I can discuss plumbing with anyone, and right is right. They are usually more intimidated by my knowledge and understanding of plumbing systems, than I am of them being the authority.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

slickrick said:


> When I go to a new jurisdiction, I go to city hall and pick up a copy of the cities amendments, meet the inspector, tell him about my project and what I intend to do. I just don't get red tagged. I have had 2 in 36 yrs. both were on out of town jobs, that I did not meet the inspector, and he tagged me because I was from out of town. 1 was in Dallas. The GC called and said I had 8 items on the tag. When I called the inspector and we went over the items, the conversation went to "Why are you working here?" Because I had a right too! He said " Put a C/O on it " There was already a wall C/O. Green tag. He never gave me a problem after the first time. I don't know much, but I know plumbing, codes and how to apply them. I never get ugly with inspectors, but I can discuss plumbing with anyone, and right is right. They are usually more intimidated by my knowledge and understanding of plumbing systems, than I am of them being the authority.


 
That is exactly what I just did. I had a re-model on the 12th floor of a condo in a city in which I never worked. I met with the bldg official but I didn't know to ask for a set of code amendments. Thank You Rick for that nugget. So what you are saying is that the local city's code amendments are ordinances adopted by that city into law, right?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> That is exactly what I just did. I had a re-model on the 12th floor of a condo in a city in which I never worked. I met with the bldg official but I didn't know to ask for a set of code amendments. Thank You Rick for that nugget. So what you are saying is that the local city's code amendments are ordinances adopted by that city into law, right?


Yes, most cities adopt amendments, some use the code book in it's entirety. Dallas for example has a amendment section that you have to purchase, to add into your code book. Without it you are asking to get tagged. Some smaller cities will have a copy to give you.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Some of these code amendments come from the influence of local plumbers that are on the Plumbing Advisory Boards in each city. Longview had such amendments. These amendments would throw non-local plumbing co's off balance when working in Longview. Very few would come in and pick up the amendments, and their jobs would receive multiple red tags in all trades, when out of town contractors came in. Most swore they would never come back, when all they needed was the amendments. They were so used to doing what the inspector said, that they did not take the time to find out why.

I learned this lesson @30 yrs ago while doing a project in Ft.Worth. They only allowed PVC on the above ground, so I had to make the transition to CI. The Inspector took a liking to me, even though I was out of Dallas. ( they did not like out of town plumbers at all) He said that he could not tell me how to make the transition, but if I used a mission brand coupling it would pass. It was the only coupling that would pass, and was by amendment to their code (he gave me a copy). A No-Hub coupling would have passed anywhere in the area at the time. Had he not shared that with me, I would have never figured it out, and would have spent no telling how many attempts at getting an inspection.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

*IN OTHER WORDS FOLLOW DAVY COCKETTS 

ADVICE !

BE SURE YOU ARE RIGHT THEN GO AHEAD ! :thumbup:
*


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Yes, most cities adopt amendments, some use the code book in it's entirety. Dallas for example has a amendment section that you have to purchase, to add into your code book. Without it you are asking to get tagged. Some smaller cities will have a copy to give you.


 
Hey thanks a million Rick, now I know exactly what to do when registering in a new jurisdiction as a licensed plumbing contractor. While I'm at bldg dept. handing them my credentials, I'll be sure to inquire about their code amendments. :thumbsup:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Hey thanks a million Rick, now I know exactly what to do when registering in a new jurisdiction as a licensed plumbing contractor. While I'm at bldg dept. handing them my credentials, I'll be sure to inquire about their code amendments. :thumbsup:


In Tarrant County, the County I work in most often, there are ONLY 41 different Municipalities in which I have to get those amendments..........


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

One more thing and I will shut up.

Most inspectors are in the office at a scheduled time. If you are able to coordinate your registration, permit and a brief meeting with the inspector, you will be way ahead of the game. They will feel comfortable that you know what you are doing, and you are there to comply. That way if you are not there for the inspection, things will still go smoothly. No reason to fail an inspection, other than a test ball slipping.


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