# plumbing system with soviet era mats!



## MDarg (Oct 30, 2009)

Ironically, that isnt an attention grabbing header, its mostly true. I am on a Firebase in the middle of the desert in Afghanistan. We are building it almost from the ground up (the only building we have is a old nearly blown-up school house) and we are in desperate need of some guidance on the best way to do our plumbing system. This is going to be a ever building thread so let me tell you what we have right now.

From the Afghani contractor we have a 1000 gal grey water tank, 500 gal fresh water tank, a water heater (on order) and a water pump (on order). For fixtuers we have sink basins and pedastol (sp?). The sink drains are done using flexible piping with a non-threaded open end. We have ball-joint style faucets. I do not yet know the diameter of each of them (will post in my next message). 

== Fresh tank ==> Pump ==> Waterheater ==> Showers ==> Sinks ==> Grey Water

The freshwater runs only to the showers and the grey water lines are coming from the showers and the sinks. They are drilling a well now and say they will put a water pump and hose out so we can fill the freshwater tank.

Using a straight line style of system that I crudely drew above. The showers and sinks are all outside and there is no need to put any corners in the system. We are about to order our second set of plumbing supplies and I am looking for some reccomendations to start.

1) Since we only have to live here for a year, is using rigid PVC piping doable? If so, what diameter should i be using? I considered 3/4" for the supply lines and 1/2" or 3/4" for the shower lines. and 3/8" for the sink grey water.

2) If we cant get a water pump, using a gravity fed system, what are all the variables I would have to consider other thank height of the tanks and height of the shower head.

Thats about it for now, if I could get feedback on the system and then the two questions I would appreciate it. Also, any tips, considerations and safety reccomendations you have would be awesome. We dont have any building codes out here and the highest level of authority we need to build is our 1SG. 

Thanks in advance for the help guys,

~matt

ps. in my next post ill try to draw a system and upload it.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks for protecting me and my family for starters. 

While you are not a plumber, I would like to help you.

I checked your ip and you are indeed, over there.

I don't think we should make a habit of this and, I will prolly ask you to leave after you procure the necessary info. 

But, I encourage the membership to help this guy out....

Pics and or diagrams would be very helpful in helping you.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

We would need to know the rating of the pump first. TO be honest about your set up, i would run 3/4 to everything, then reduce down at the fixture. When you say ball joint fixtures, im assuming they are single lever type, not two handles?


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

MDARG, do you not have contractors avaiable to satisfy your construction needs? If not ,I know a few guys that are wanting to come over . My brother just joind the ranks of the unemployed, he's so over qualified he can't grt a job at Long John Silvers:furious:.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

para1 said:


> MDARG, do you not have contractors avaiable to satisfy your construction needs? If not ,I know a few guys that are wanting to come over . My brother just joind the ranks of the unemployed, he's so over qualified he can't grt a job at Long John Silvers:furious:.


Contractors tend to be REMF's and not make it to firebases in the boonies.:laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I was a plumber in OIF in 04. I have set these sites up from the start. I will help you best I can. Are you running Force Provider systems now or are you burning sewage? How were you going to utilize your grey water tank? bury as a holding tank and have it pumped? Try to order all the same type materials. We went to all cpvc. Be prepared to repair it if it freezes. thats the way it is. It will be your best bet for the time you are there. Order 1/2 hp. pumps or what ever you can get your hands Set your pumps close to the unit and high enough it does not flood out when it rains. A wooden box makes a good cover. And run your lines from your storage tanks to them above ground if you do not feel like trenching. You could put sand bags on the sides to protect the pipe. Size wise, at least the pump inlet size from the tank. Our tank outlets were 2" and that is what we ran. You just need enough to get you by. Order back up pumps and water heater elements. The rest of the water piping could be 3/4 and 1/2. Where do you get material from? Can you attach close up photos of what you need to connect to without compromising security? Don't worry about correct sizes too much. Adapt to whatever is there. Get the water in and the drain out. If you have straight threads instead of tapered, I will tell you how we applied the teflon if you dont have hemp and paste. Order JB weld, duct tape, electrical tape and don't rule out your medics bag, I kid you not. You should have stayed at a Holiday Inn express! Huah?.


*** MAKE SURE ALL OF YOUR ELECTRICAL IS GROUNDED PROPERLY***


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*1 year*

is that how long until you come home? bush was there for 7 years. obama is looking to top that. better make it permanent. i got no dog in this. cpvc for hot water not pvc. how cold does it get? i have used gravity water myself. to cold out, pop goes pipe. how are you going to get the water up in the water tower on stilts? better yet how are you going to make it bullet proof? lot's of questions. my quess is that the pipeing is the least of your problems. breid............:rockon:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

breid1903 said:


> is that how long until you come home? bush was there for 7 years. obama is looking to top that. better make it permanent. i got no dog in this. cpvc for hot water not pvc. how cold does it get? i have used gravity water myself. to cold out, pop goes pipe. how are you going to get the water up in the water tower on stilts? better yet how are you going to make it bullet proof? lot's of questions. my quess is that the pipeing is the least of your problems. breid............:rockon:


They are plastic tanks sitting on the ground.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)




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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Protech said:


>


 
Your right about that. I have the pictures in my head ! :laughing:

Most likely he is placing orders with a local vendor that trucks it out of Kabul. And it is going to be metric.
It will be a system of water storage, a pump and pipe.
sewage into a holding tank and pumped by the same contractor.
We will see.
It would take me 1 day to set up if I were there. This could be interesting but well worth it.

He is what 8-10 hrs ahead of us?


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Contractors tend to be REMF's and not make it to firebases in the boonies.:laughing:


 Way Wrong Redwood, sorry to dissapoint.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

MDarg said:


> I considered 3/4" for the supply lines and 1/2" or 3/4" for the shower lines. and 3/8" for the sink grey water.


Do you mean 3/8" for the supply of fresh water


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*slickrick*

#2 was gravity. so if tank was on ground would shower be in a hole? not sayin nutin now, just askin, justin askin. breid................:rockon:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

breid1903 said:


> #2 was gravity. so if tank was on ground would shower be in a hole? not sayin nutin now, just askin, justin askin. breid................:rockon:


I see what you are saying.
We will see how good a scrounger he is.
If he elevated the tank high enough to get say 10 psi the base of those tanks would be higher than his perimeter. which is usually about 10'. They usually use HESCO barriers. which are 5' high cardboard containers full of sand stacked on top of each other 2 high. Sound like a good way to get shot. He will be able to get some materials 
If he cannot get a pump he is going to be screwed. He might as well put a shower head on the bottom of a barrel. If he cannot get a pump, he won't be able to get a water heater etc.


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## MDarg (Oct 30, 2009)

DISCLAMER: I wrote this email in 3 parts. One was doing up a picture with questions, the second was writing some questions on my computer and the 3rd was replying to your questions when I was finally able to get on the internet again (I know, its chaotic! Sorry if some of this stuff seems redundant). Also sorry if I couldn’t answer everybody’s questions individually.
Hey guys, attached is a picture of what we are thinking about doing. We are still waiting for the contractor to come thru on some of the pieces we ordered and so far no luck from Kandahar on the bulk of the plumbing and construction supplies. Also, I would love to use KBR (or whatever company) for all of our plumbing needs, unfortunately, they don’t come to where we are at and on top of that, we are very limited on what we can have others build for us. If it is a permanent structure (I.e. fixed plumbing going into the town) then it’s a no-go. As far as grey water you guys are right, its going to be pumped out of the 1000 g. holding tank (buried in the ground) via a contractor. No more burning of sewage (those days sucked : ) ) When I meant gravity fed system, what I meant was using a water pump to move the water but having it suspended in the ceiling so that we didn’t have to fight gravity. All of you guys are on the right track though, we cant use a gravity fed system because the height that we would have to put it at would have it stick over the tops of our HESCOS like a big blue middle finger to the Taliban that surround us. Unfortunatly, there are a lot of numbers missing in this diagram because of security purposes. 
How powerful of a pump do we need to plumb this from the ground up? We did it from the top down so if they gave us a weak pump, it wouldn’t hurt us too bad. 
Does having the pump before the water heater make sense? I’m not sure if a waterheater can keep a certain amount of PSI if it is after the tank and pump. 
What is everyone’s thoughts on the diameters of piping (I post this not having been able to check this thread the first day). We are wondering how much water we can put thru a pipe. The showers are approx 2-3 lpm (wait until you see the pics of the showers, they gave us showers that you can hook a Ipod up to and make a phone call… where did they get these things!?!) and two washing machines that use 4 liters per wash. As you can see by the picture, based on our limited knowledge of plumbing we are worried that 1” pipe wouldn’t support enough grey water without backing up. Due to mission schedule and OPTEMPO we all get up at the same time and get back at the same time so we are going to assume that all of these fixtures are going to be used at once. Based on this worry we have two questions, 1 are you all lauging at us for not using a larger diameter pipe? J and 2, what size of pipe should we use to we can make sure we don’t get backflow?
I am still trying to get pictures of the fixtures, tank, water heater, pump, etc but so far it’s a slow process. Thanks again guys. I was worried this thread wouldn’t be well received. You all are awesome.
What I owe you: Pics of the showers, fixtures, faucets, tanks, pumps and heaters. I will give you all the ratings and other technical info when I get it. Thanks again!
~Matt
Para1: would love to help your bro get a job. Unfortunately only referral I have is to a recruiter L
Breid: We just got here, we have about 10 months left. I hear what you are saying though, I watched the initial invasion when I was a junior in highschool. Here I am a SSG fighting the same war. 
rick: you pretty much hit the nail on the head. we are sitting in a hesco bastion so we cant go up very high with our constructions.

associated plumb: I did mean 3/8 for fresh


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Tell your boss I am lookng for a job


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Ok Folks, We supplied 10 showers and 10 lavs. in what they call ablution units with 3/4 hp pumps. I will find the pumps we used and post. The piping would not have to be elevated from what I see. Tank to pump to unit, simple. Keeping it simple. I was thinking 2" grey water w/ reducing branches to Lavs. When we know the pump inlet size, bump the inlet size up for volume. We need to keep our thoughts primitive and simple. They just need some basic comforts. If we need piping drawings someone will have to post, it is all I can to to cut and paste! Valve locations etc. The lav. drains were indirect. ( stuck in a pipe). 
Connect the ends, little elect, bota boom, bota bing, You have a first class camp!

Just my idea.

Valve on tank
Valve on discharge side of pump
Valve on water heater (cold water side)
Sight tube on tank would be lovely (clear tubing) 
2" and 11/2" drains
Leave pump location as shown.

Matt, You are on the right track. If they send you a booster pump simular to the one shown 3/4 or 1 hp you are home free. Built in pressure switch, no adjustments needed. You will get 40-50 psi and it will provide excellent water pressure with all fixtures running at once. You can locate the pump at the tank or close to the structure, depending on where your electrical is located. The pump is going to pressurize your hot and cold systems. If you run the line from the tank to the pump 2 pipe sizes larger than pump inlet size you will be fine. Run your 1" out to the pump and you are good to go. I would run a 2" greywater trunk line out to your holding tank and 1 1/2 branches for your lav. drains. Don't worry about the gravity issue on the water distribution. The pump will handle what you are doing.


This is a booster pump similar to what we used at that type site.

It just takes 1. Picture is example of what we used they worked great. 200 soldiers can't be wrong.


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## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

I agree with slickrick about the 2" drains. 1" would get clogged with sand/hair/dust pretty quickly, even if you use it regularly.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

bollinger Plumber said:


> tell Your Boss I Am Lookng For A Job


Phone Call From Mr. Obama... Line 1


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Please keep it respectful. Even if you believe your opinion of doucheness may be correct IMO. 

MDarg is here to stay till he gets his questions answered. Then I will personally ask him to step out. GET OVER IT OR GTF OUT!

Any replies not related to helping MDarg will be removed, with consequences. 

Thanks.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

1 moved already


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I would run 1.5" pvc to the sinks with 1.5" vents. then go up to 2".

Showers need to be 2". anything more than 2 fixtures and you should go up to 3" to catch them all. both main drain runs going out of the building should be 3". Can you run it all in 2"? yes. Is it a good idea? No. If 3 or more fixtures are used at once then they will over load to drains and back up. You can't screw up going to big, but you can screw up going to small.

On the water lines I would use cpvc on the hot AND cold instead of pvc(if you have acces to cpvc materials). I don't see the need to run the hot water supply directly off a pump. 1 pump sized properly would be better so that you don't get temperature fluctuations. Just "tee" the heater supply pipe off of the main cold line.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Protech said:


> I would run 1.5" pvc to the sinks with 1.5" vents. then go up to 2".
> 
> Showers need to be 2". anything more than 2 fixtures and you should go up to 3" to catch them all. both main drain runs going out of the building should be 3". Can you run it all in 2"? yes. Is it a good idea? No. If 3 or more fixtures are used at once then they will over load to drains and back up. You can't screw up going to big, but you can screw up going to small.
> 
> On the water lines I would use cpvc on the hot AND cold instead of pvc(if you have acces to cpvc materials). I don't see the need to run the hot water supply directly off a pump. 1 pump sized properly would be better so that you don't get temperature fluctuations. Just "tee" the heater supply pipe off of the main cold line.


Vents, We don't need no stinking vents.:laughing: Am I half way getting across what I trying to tell them?

I thought the hot water line to the tank was to use it as a hot tub..


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Things move sooooo sloooow over there. Logistics there are a nightmare. His contractor probably has some pos truck with little balls hanging off the visors. It's only 2000 yrs. behind times and holding. He may get his base ready for the next rotation.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

I know my question does nothing for this tread but was curious there Ilplumber. How can you see someones ip address? I'm just saying


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Plasticman said:


> I know my question does nothing for this tread but was curious there Ilplumber. How can you see someones ip address? I'm just saying


Mods can see the IP no the members.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Do what slickrick says. Be very resorceful. If you have good TCN's asked them for help. Be careful with the electric like slickrick said. . Wish I was lending a hand. Good luck. Directing your questions to Rick would be advantagous.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

saysflushable was there he knows what will work. 1 vent between the holding tank and building is all you need. keep it simple..
If they can't get a pump, I am going to ship them one..


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

1 big mistake myself and others made with foreighn water heaters is no place for a pressure relief valve. So we did not install them. DO NOT DO THAT. PUT A PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN TO THE HOT WATER HEATER ON THE HOT SIDE. better to only have cold water than a bomb in your building. boy did a bunch of us feel dumb.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Matt. 

My son-in-law is in country now (Kandahar) And they are ramping up logistical support for you guys. He said the net was clogged with the influx of personnel. You may be recieving some support from either Fluor or Dyncorp within the next mo. If you could give me your site # I may be able to obtain more info.


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