# Quick boiler change out



## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

10 years old the voyager sprung a leak. I am not a fan, but do to the existing structure and venting in place I used the HTP replacement. Not very good before pics, but the old one sat on the left and the new one made more sense to put on the right. The old piping was really ugly, so I wanted to make it look a bit better. Went in yesterday and took everything out, hung the plywood, finished 90% of the piping. Had to reuse the manifolds as I have no kitec fittings or adapters. This morning I finished up the piping and wiring. Took a pressure reading of 90 psi, had to installed a new PRV, set it to 75 (set the expansion tank to 75). Charged the house, filled and purged the heating system, cycled it a few times and was done by noon, 12 hours with helper. 

old: 




















new


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Looks good.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Where's your gas cock, union and sediment trap??


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## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> Where's your gas cock, union and sediment trap??


On the other side, where the old tank/boiler sat. about four foot of trac pipe. Is code 3 foot? for gas cock accessibility. The first pic shows it, and it is still there. what about air gaps?


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## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

The Dane said:


> Looks good.


Thx. Could always look better, just a matter of how much time I want to spend on it. I do a ton of mechanical rooms and will be posting a lot of pics as I get them knocked out. Enjoy and critique


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Otobeme said:


> On the other side, where the old tank/boiler sat. about four foot of trac pipe. Is code 3 foot? for gas cock accessibility. The first pic shows it, and it is still there. what about air gaps?



6' per nfpa, still where is union , sediment trap, can you use CSST as an appliance connector?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> 6' per nfpa, still where is union , sediment trap, can you use CSST as an appliance connector?


Out here you can't use an appliance connecting hose, or copper of any sort. Black pipe or gastite only.... No gas teflon either, pipe dope only. Don't know if it's a local thing or not, but I for one wouldn't trust anything else in my home or a customer's. Speaking from water heater knowledge, not boiler type stuff...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

OpenSights said:


> Out here you can't use an appliance connecting hose, or copper of any sort. Black pipe or gastite only.... No gas teflon either, pipe dope only. Don't know if it's a local thing or not, but I for one wouldn't trust anything else in my home or a customer's. Speaking from water heater knowledge, not boiler type stuff...




So if your appliance shut off is 3' away and you run CSST after the shut off to the appliance with or without a union how is it not an appliance connector?? Sediment trap??? Also it seems to be unsupported.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> So if your appliance shut off is 3' away and you run CSST after the shut off to the appliance with or without a union how is it not an appliance connector?? Sediment trap??? Also it seems to be unsupported.


Sediment trap is required, even a gas cock within 3' you cannot use one of those cheapy appliance hoses as a plumber... HO can do it all day long. Now inspectors out here will let you get away with a gas cock further than 3' as long as it is needed for a safe location. There has been many times when I've installed one in the basement and one above the floor for a stove just to be on the safe side. If the stove starts leaking on grandma it'd probably be easier for her to shut it off below the floor than wrestling the stove out from her cabinets and crawling to get to the gas cock.

The major city in my area has changed rental codes lately and I've had to go in and update rentals. They like to find the dumbest reasons to make money. We have two vacant houses to bring up to code in the next month or so... Some obvious dings, but if it is a single family house, they are now requiring laundry hook ups. Those appliance hook ups are a no go. Black pipe or gastite only, no if's, and's or but's about it. Honestly I'm fine with it, from the gas perspective. One house the laundry trap can only be 4' from the ground plus the min 18" stand pipe. Makes the washer's pump work twice as hard... that or an ejection crock/pump in a section 8 home....

But, as I said, I know nothing of boiler systems. The closest I've come are Apollo style heat. I hook 'em up and tell the maint. guy to bleed them so they work. Stupid idea IMHO for out here in MI. Might be a good idea for the southern areas.... I see them turn those SOB's to very hot just to keep the apt heat at 70 in the winter.... well above the 120 degree heat limit! I'm honestly surprised there haven't been any lawsuits!

Sorry, rant off...


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## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> Out here you can't use an appliance connecting hose, or copper of any sort. Black pipe or gastite only.... No gas teflon either, pipe dope only. Don't know if it's a local thing or not, but I for one wouldn't trust anything else in my home or a customer's. Speaking from water heater knowledge, not boiler type stuff...


You would not trust anything other than what? Gastite and black iron? Tracpipe has a larger diameter than gastite but I stock both. I pipe dope first then tape over to hold the dope in place. The European rope teflon is my favorite, but hard to get.


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## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> So if your appliance shut off is 3' away and you run CSST after the shut off to the appliance with or without a union how is it not an appliance connector?? Sediment trap??? Also it seems to be unsupported.


I have used csst many times as appliance connectors. I consider the adapters on both sides as unions. I Should have a couple two hole straps on it for support. Notice the holly iron supporting the copper pipe at the top? I meant to fix that...whoops.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Otobeme said:


> I have used csst many times as appliance connectors. I consider the adapters on both sides as unions. I Should have a couple two hole straps on it for support. Notice the holly iron supporting the copper pipe at the top? I meant to fix that...whoops.



You better read up on gastites installation guide, and NFPA 54


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Teflon tape on gas lines here equals a failed inspection. I'm not really sure why. I prefer black pipe over gastite. I had one gastite fitting both myself and the Master had to back to three times. We eventually replaced the entire line and all the fittings. Our best guess was some sort of manufacturing flaw.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Here we hard pipe everything. Teflon tape should be put on first then paste. If installed right with no overlap on the end of the threads it works good. Track pipe should never be used as a appliance flex. Appliance flex connectors are rated and track pipe isn't rated as a appliance connector. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Venting? Neutralizer?


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## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

wyrickmech said:


> Here we hard pipe everything. Teflon tape should be put on first then paste. If installed right with no overlap on the end of the threads it works good. Track pipe should never be used as a appliance flex. Appliance flex connectors are rated and track pipe isn't rated as a appliance connector. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.


You are correct I should not be doing that.


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## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> Venting? Neutralizer?


Venting is a concentric out back and very low. Only install neutralizer on leech fields not on city sewer.


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## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> Teflon tape on gas lines here equals a failed inspection. I'm not really sure why. I prefer black pipe over gastite. I had one gastite fitting both myself and the Master had to back to three times. We eventually replaced the entire line and all the fittings. Our best guess was some sort of manufacturing flaw.



i sure would be interested in knowing why (no tape)? Some use only tape and others use both. No one uses dope only, in my experience. I am not a fan of gastite, tracpipe is superior. You are referring to csst in general though?


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## Otobeme (Jul 9, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> You better read up on gastites installation guide, and NFPA 54



Yes I will do that, thank you.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Otobeme said:


> i sure would be interested in knowing why (no tape)? Some use only tape and others use both. No one uses dope only, in my experience. I am not a fan of gastite, tracpipe is superior. You are referring to csst in general though?


CSST in general. Next time I see one of the inspectors I'll ask why they wont approve tape on gas lines. Always seemed odd to me. I only use gastite when I have to. Now that I think of it, when I worked in CA a water heater couldn't be hard piped at all, water or gas, and had to be earthquake strapped. I could be wrong though... been many moons ago.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

No where in NFPA 54 does it say Teflon tape cannot be used. It's an old wives tale. People would say that the Teflon breaks off and will clog gas valves and orifices. If you put it on correctly, it won't. If you have an inspector telling you that you can't use Teflon tape on gas hand them the book and ask them to show you where it says it.


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## Fred Meebley (Jan 26, 2013)

According to gastite installation manual on page 61, it can be run directly to any non moveable appliance without use of flexible appliance connector. Shutoff valves, drip legs, and unions are to be installed per Local code

Page 61 
4.6.2 Direct Connection – Non-Moveable Appliances
Gastite®/FlashShieldTM CSST may be connected directly to non- movable appliances such as water heaters, furnaces, boilers and island cook-tops (Figures 4-57) without the installation of a termination outlet or flexible appliance connector. All local codes requiring drip legs and shut-off valves must be observed. Drip
legs and shut-off valves must be securely mounted. Additionally, Gastite®/FlashShieldTM should not penetrate metallic cabinet of appliance.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Otobeme said:


> i sure would be interested in knowing why (no tape)? Some use only tape and others use both. No one uses dope only, in my experience. I am not a fan of gastite, tracpipe is superior. You are referring to csst in general though?



I've never taped a gas fitting in my life. Black iron, csst, brass flare fittings, anything, you name it. Gasoila blue dope, black gripp or permatex only.


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