# this one stopped me in my tracks



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I went to this home to give an estimate today 
to install their pedistle lavatory... but when I went
down to the basement, this mess stopped me
this was a do it yourself job by the previous owner.

I felt like getting out my bailing wire and trying to strap this mess up,
but I just knew better than to even lay a hand on any of it
I would probably only make it worse...........

I had to pull out my camera phone and snap pictures
I told the lady she made my hall of fame photo album:laughing::laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

:blink:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

at least they were patriotic about it and used red white and blue.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Well, lets look at the bright side of this mess.
1. Someone used pex. I think this to be a good thing
2. You were there to give an extimate, and it looks like you found some extra work.
3. Everyone who looks at this will experience the humor when the anger subsides.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Poor man's Manabloc


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Matt said:


> Poor man's Manabloc


Do any of you guys use a manabloc? I've only seen one around here


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I'v done a few. I got pics too.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Indie said:


> 3. Everyone who looks at this will experience the humor when the anger subsides.


 

Just disappointment, as the plumbing trade has lost its skill level.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Just disappointment, as the plumbing trade has lost its skill level.


And you can thank Pex tubing for it all. Pex is the Obama of plumbing. It is spreading the wealth of plumbing work, to hacks, & DIY's.:yes:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Nah, I'd say that's cpvc. Most DIYers don't want to buy crimpers.



Don The Plumber said:


> And you can thank Pex tubing for it all. Pex is the Obama of plumbing. It is spreading the wealth of plumbing work, to hacks, & DIY's.:yes:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Is the white tempered water?....Makes me want to sing the national anthem...


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

in the 1st picture I like the look of the ladys face. She's thinking that her husband really f'ed up now.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I like the burn marks on the plywood too. So now we got red, white, black & blue.


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## M5Plumb (Oct 2, 2008)

Steve, that's not plumbing trade stuff....Thats hack crap.




DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Just disappointment, as the plumbing trade has lost its skill level.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

M5Plumb said:


> Steve, that's not plumbing trade stuff....Thats hack crap.


 
I can post plumbing work done by licensed plumbing contractors that is dead on or worse than the pictures in this thread.

My statement is more clear than anyone wants to admit, and a great percentage of my work in customer's homes are due to the incorrect/poor workmanship of a plumber.

I said earlier in the year (on another forum) that I was going to stop defending the bullshit that plumbers put out there for me to profit from at the expense of property owners.

*I don't care if I'm hated by all.* First response is always "some hack did it" even though I'm going into new homes that I know the plumbing contractor installed it, pushing for the dollar and not caring what the next guy sees.

I constantly do my job at 100% accuracy. It's not that hard to perform work duties correctly. Why am I seeing so many not following that work ritual.....?


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I can post plumbing work done by licensed plumbing contractors that is dead on or worse than the pictures in this thread.
> 
> My statement is more clear than anyone wants to admit, and a great percentage of my work in customer's homes are due to the incorrect/poor workmanship of a plumber.
> 
> ...


It takes longer to do things the right way, usually. If you save some time and do it wrong and it works, you "save" the HO some $$$.:no:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

plumbpro said:


> It *takes longer to do things the right way*, usually. If you save some time and do it wrong and it works, you "save" the HO some $$$.:no:


 
Ahh, a good reason to be hourly. :yes:


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Ahh, a good reason to be hourly. :yes:


When I was in plumbing school, my times to do things seemed a little longer than some of the others and this concerned me at first-but now it doesn't. I never get call backs for the same problem or to fix leeks after I set fixtures. My master would rather it take longer and have a happy customer, rather than be in and out and not be able to sleep because you just aren't sure if that is going to work in the long term.


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## Neplumber (Mar 12, 2010)

Ok, while I do understand, and agree that things should be done right. What would some of you suggest for someone that works for someone else, and is told to give the customer what they want? I can't refuse to do the work even if I know what the customer wants is not right. Boss says keep them happy, give them what they want. Customer wants cheap and workable, do I give them what they want? Or would you suggest that I give up my only source of income to support my family??


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Neplumber said:


> Ok, while I do understand, and agree that things should be done right. What would some of you suggest for someone that works for someone else, and is told to give the customer what they want? I can't refuse to do the work even if I know what the customer wants is not right. Boss says keep them happy, give them what they want. Customer wants cheap and workable, do I give them what they want? Or would you suggest that I give up my only source of income to support my family??


I would not suggest defiance against your boss, and wouldn't worry too much about doing things to make them work cheaply for the customer's sake. I wouldn't break code to do it if I were you. The thing is, it is his reputation, if he doesnt' care about it, you probrably shouldn't either. Usually a customer that wants something cheap and not right is not a good customer to have, IMO. I am just lucky enough to work for someone with a passion for plumbing and doing things the rightway. When I would tell him about other guys at plumbing school and the things they would do (not cleaning copper fittings for soldering, etc.) He would say, "that that's their problem, not ours. We do things right because it is my reputation on the line. " 
He's right, it is his reputation, so I do what he says. If those other guys boss told them not to clean fittings, so be it.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*you lose either way*



Neplumber said:


> Ok, while I do understand, and agree that things should be done right. What would some of you suggest for someone that works for someone else, and is told to give the customer what they want? I can't refuse to do the work even if I know what the customer wants is not right. Boss says keep them happy, give them what they want. Customer wants cheap and workable, do I give them what they want? Or would you suggest that I give up my only source of income to support my family??


 
If you were dumb enough to slop in a job like this,
and use the lame assd excuse that this is just what the customer wanted done, 

odds are your boss would probably fire you anyway and then you could not support your family.....

if you dont make a stand somewhere, and state that 
this is just not the way I do things talk to my boss first, , people will respect you more.....

if you just go along with whatever the customer wants, eventually you will be the one that looks stupid ....and the boss will balme you for this mess if he gets in trouble...


you wont win, cause you are not useing your braines...


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> If you were dumb enough to slop in a job like this,
> and use the lame assd excuse that this is just what the customer wanted done,
> 
> odds are your boss would probably fire you anyway and then you could not support your family.....
> ...


I backpeddle a little on what I say. That pex mess was not necessay, but there are situations where you may have to do something you normally wouldn't. If you go to an old house that really need a repipe, but they need something repaired. You may tell them they need a repipe, that doesnt' meen they have money to repipe. You may have to patch. In situations like this I explain myself to the HO and what the situation is, they are understanding. That doesn't meen you half-ass the job. Do quality work with what you are working with. On the subject of your boss, communication is key.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Wanna see a mess? 

Follow me to the trashed truck thread. :thumbsup:


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Wanna see a mess?
> 
> Follow me to the trashed truck thread. :thumbsup:


you win hands down:notworthy::laughing:


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## Neplumber (Mar 12, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> If you were dumb enough to slop in a job like this,
> and use the lame assd excuse that this is just what the customer wanted done,
> 
> odds are your boss would probably fire you anyway and then you could not support your family.....
> ...


I guess Plumbpro put it better than I did. I wouldn't do a job like the one in the pics. And, when I work, I do the best job I can with what I am given. But like plumbpro said, sometimes you can't do what should be done. 


And, if you are going to be rude, and tell someone that they aren't using their *brains* at least use the ones you claim to have and use spell check.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Rude, who is being rude???*



Neplumber said:


> I guess Plumbpro put it better than I did. I wouldn't do a job like the one in the pics. And, when I work, I do the best job I can with what I am given. But like plumbpro said, sometimes you can't do what should be done.
> 
> 
> And, if you are going to be rude, and tell someone that they aren't using their *brains* at least use the ones you claim to have and use spell check.


 
no one is being rude to you... get over it....:laughing::laughing:


so, how do you use spell check on this site??.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Think about what you all are saying, about not being able to do the jobs as you would like. That happens everyday people!

I fix & repair toilets & faucets, that I would much rather replace.
I have replaced sections of castiron pipe that I had to cut gently with a saw blade, just to get a half way descent piece to tie onto. I'd love to replace it all but I can't cuz customer aint got no money.
Repaired water heaters, that should be replaced.
Cleaned out drains that need replacing.
Leaks in kitchen sink drains, that you know are rotted in wall too, but as long as their not leaking now, customer don't wanna fix it.
Valves that are so corroded, you don't dare touch them.
And on & on & on.

But in my opinion, thats what seperates the men from the boys. Knowing your customers, and how to fix, repair, or replace, whatever plumbing problem they have, to satisfy them exclusively. Not just always doing what you want. You could have the exact same problem in 2 customers houses, & have to do 2 different things to satisfy them.
Example. 1 person may be selling their house shortly, or going through a divorce.Even with this, 1 person may want to replace all the water pipes, cuz they think it is a selling feature. The next customer says just fix the leak for now, cuz I'm selling.
I'm doing a job right now, where the city gave the apartment owner violations for not having radiators in every room. They were capped off years ago because it was too hot up there anyway.
I would love to install brand new radiators, or better yet, a whole new hot water heating system, but I can't. So I drove down to Detroit, & bought used radiators, & had to cut out all the old plugs, & retap some openings, to get them to work for system & pipe size I have. This saved my customer over $4000.00, & I'm still making descent $$$.
My point is I think we are all doing this everyday, & it becomes so normal we forget.:yes: Very seldom you can do, what you "really" want to.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> Think about what you all are saying, about not being able to do the jobs as you would like. That happens everyday people!
> 
> I fix & repair toilets & faucets, that I would much rather replace.
> I have replaced sections of castiron pipe that I had to cut gently with a saw blade, just to get a half way descent piece to tie onto. I'd love to replace it all but I can't cuz customer aint got no money.
> ...


I agree, just saying that there was no reason to run pex like that. It would have taken a little longer to make it look neat, but would have been good advertising. I shouldn't have said that you don't want to work for people that don't want it done right, thats not always true. 

I was at a house once fixing a leak and noticed they had a gas WH that had the T&P plugged. The customer didn't want me to fix it, I told them I would call the inspector to pull the meter if it didn't get fixed wether by me or someone else. It's dangerous. I ended up fixing it. The problem is if another plumber, or inspector, or someone that knows better came and saw that and found out I had been there in the same room fixing something else, it would have looked bad. They didn't want it fixed because they didn't want to pay for an extra half hour of my time.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I understand exactly what you mean. This was one of the major driving forces for me starting my own business. My boss insisted that I use crap materials and made me install them in hack configurations. One thing that was like nails on a chalk board for me was how he wanted my hose bibs brought out on repipes. He wanted cpvc drilled to the exterior and a 90 going into a wing el. Then a boiler drain screwed into the wing el. Wing el secured to the masonry with molly screws. I cringe just thinking about it. Oh yeah, no insulation on the cpvc. Totally exposed baking in the sun. :furious:



Neplumber said:


> Ok, while I do understand, and agree that things should be done right. What would some of you suggest for someone that works for someone else, and is told to give the customer what they want? I can't refuse to do the work even if I know what the customer wants is not right. Boss says keep them happy, give them what they want. Customer wants cheap and workable, do I give them what they want? Or would you suggest that I give up my only source of income to support my family??


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*I gave them a price*

just on another note, 
I think some of the pex was the ZURN stuff with the bad brass elbows..

I was not there for the 
pex slop, but I did mention to the homeowner that 
it needed to be re-piped someday if they every wanted to re-sell the place.... all the way up to the second floor bathrooms...



went up to look at what it all looked like, and the previous folks had installed a new bathroom with a 
neo -angle shower..... 

I KNEW when I looked at the shower that their was
no 2 inch trap in that floor... We flushed the toilet and 
you could hear the water echoeing down the line all the way to the street....:laughing::laughing::laughing:. 

that really sank their boat.....I told them to keep a rag
over the drain cause the smells will get worse when it rains..

I told them between 3 and 4k for doing it all over 
from scratch in wirsbo pex...


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## spudwrench (Sep 15, 2009)

A bum out of the homeless shelter could tell ya "sumpin' aint right with that". Stupid consumers. If I were to even consider 1/2 of that mess. My Dad,that taught me the trade, would haunt me from his grave every night in my dreams. JEEZZ!

I can only imagine what is lurking behind some walls out there.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I agree that you can not always do what you want.

However, the pictures in this thread are not like that because of time. It really doesn't take longer to do it right - it's all a matter of knowing how to lay it out. You can run a lot of PEX pipe in a half hour. 

The one thing that makes amateurs and hacks stand out is that they don't know how to do it. If the person who made that Rube Goldberg mess had twice as long it would have looked twice as bad.


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