# Carriers in fire rated shaft walls...



## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Alright, so here is the issue. This remodel is using exsisting carriers. The carriers are in a 3hr fire rated shaft. It wasn't a problem when it was built for some reason, but now it becomes mine. 

Has anyone ever come across this? The barrel and rods must be fire caulked at the penetration through the shaft board and double layer of drywall. But I'll need to pull my barrel to cut it to length at the trim. 

I suppose I could use a sawzall and cut the barrel in place but all nuts and washers would have to be set since they would be partially in the wall. 

Another option I thought about was using 4" pvc and bringing a female adapter to the face of the drywall and using a mifab plastic barrel but then my issue becomes, how do I get it tight enough? Should I trust my rods not to get trashed? 

Thus it one he started the other day.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

will the powers to be even allow PVC through a fire rated wall? if you have your finished wall dimension, set the flange on the rough....and get some rubber tubing or old garden hose that fits tight and put it over the threaded rod and at finish just cut if off with a utility knife, that will keep the threads clean...question..the top picture..is the fire caulking only going on the green board? if so just put in the male adapters and dont glue the pipe into them, if the caulking only has togo on the green board, do you have to pressure test the DWV that your working on?


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

No, the drywall gets complete and fire stopped. And it gets tile, so finish is iffy depending on the tile guy.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

It the carriers are Zurn, they have various size plastic carrier nipples. Can't you run your bolts long and cut them when you are setting your bowls?


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

That opening in the drywall will eventually be closed too.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Plumbus said:


> It the carriers are Zurn, they have various size plastic carrier nipples. Can't you run your bolts long and cut them when you are setting your bowls?


I agree. If its a JR Smith then install a continuous thread carrier nipple/coupling cut behind the wall with an inside cutter wheel. Then a gasket adapter to bring the connection to outside the wall. Seal the adapter with fire caulk and install the toilet. Cut the bolts during the toilet installation.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

I've never pulled the nipples on carriers to cut them, I have always cut them in place with a sawzall. Same with the allthread.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

Get them to supply a tile sample,base your nut depth off of that,maybe set them slightly deep and worse case you double up the washers to get the right set off the wall.I think you'll be OK with a long nipple and cut it on trim with an inside cutter.I'd protect the studs,block or drywall they still beat the snot out of them.If were earlier in the day and not a Friday my brain might be a little sharper.


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## Cipp-pro (Jul 16, 2016)

Wrap the Stubb out in 1/2 wall insulation then wrap bolt in insulation so the o.d. Matches the O.d. Of the washer..theHave the Sheetrock placed on wall as if it was a lavatory Stubb out covering all openings have tile placed the same. On set out remove all insulation, cut bolts and Stubb to length fire caulk and set water closet


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I never do wall carriers. Always tank type or floor mount toilets w/flush valve 

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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

GREENPLUM said:


> I never do wall carriers. Always tank type or floor mount toilets w/flush valve
> 
> Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk



There exist these things called commercial buildings. Sometimes the designers of said buildings specify wall hung fixtures. You aren't allowed to hill jack them however you wish.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

rwh said:


> There exist these things called commercial buildings. Sometimes the designers of said buildings specify wall hung fixtures. You aren't allowed to hill jack them however you wish.


I just no longer respond to him.

Was looking at the continuous thread nipples, don't think that would work, need what 3/8 off finish? That cap that threads is over an inch. That's would put it into the wall... And can't with the fire caulk and expansion wrap. So looks like I'll cut the barrel in place, but I much rather use a chop saw for a square cut.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

rwh said:


> There exist these things called commercial buildings. Sometimes the designers of said buildings specify wall hung fixtures. You aren't allowed to hill jack them however you wish.


I love carriers. Install the carriers, install the drain and vent pipe, add stackfix on the vents, install the water pipe and get your inspection before the framers even show up on the job.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

dhal22 said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > There exist these things called commercial buildings. Sometimes the designers of said buildings specify wall hung fixtures. You aren't allowed to hill jack them however you wish.
> ...


I love them too. Was responding to another expert in the field.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Not to change the subject, but are any of you installing the residential carriers (Geberit, Toto, Grohe, and Kohler)? They are as hot here as linear shower drains.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

I have not installed those, but will read up on them. Wall hung residential has been around long time. I wouldn't do it. Greenplumb said floor mount only. He knows what to do


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

rwh said:


> I love them too. Was responding to another expert in the field.


Yes you were. And I was assisting you.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Plumbus said:


> Not to change the subject, but are any of you installing the residential carriers (Geberit, Toto, Grohe, and Kohler)? They are as hot here as linear shower drains.



Yes on Gerberit. A bit flimsy in my opinion, but seem to be the cool WCs to put in. My boss has them in his house. We just did a high end historic hotel with them.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

rwh said:


> dhal22 said:
> 
> 
> > rwh said:
> ...


Lol


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## shlomy81 (Apr 23, 2012)

We did a couple hundred of them in the last year geberit carriers with toto toilets love them


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

I would have issue with any PVC penetrating a require fire wall. Generally that is when you use "crush collars" to re-establish the rating that have in-tumescent capabilities.

Page 8 http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/495694O/3m-fire-protection-products-full-line-brochure.pdf

Usually the through penetration are not combustible, copper, galvanized, etc. then caulked around.

This one may even be worth asking an opinion from the ICC or NFPA to keep your liabilities down. It sure the heck is not covered under the Plumbing Code.

Plastic Pipe in Fire Rated Construction (older version) >>>> http://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/bsc/prpsd_chngs/documents/2007/pex/PEX%20EIR%20284%20Ackerman,%20Cen,%20Wilging%202004%20-%20FireManual.pdf

I would have considered a cast iron carrier assembly with a threaded galvanized nipple in this particular case.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

GAN said:


> I t sure the heck is not covered under the Plumbing Code.
> 
> 
> I would have considered a cast iron carrier assembly with a threaded galvanized nipple in this particular case.


I like these two replies. Unless it's clear in the OPs specs to care for this issue, I would do what I could- GANs latter comment- and then tell them the stud guy needs to box around your carrier or let them tell you what to do.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

To add to it. Seems the design professional, should have details on 3 hour wall penetrations.

To take it off the subs hands.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

GAN said:


> To add to it. Seems the design professional, should have details on 3 hour wall penetrations.
> 
> To take it off the subs hands.


The design professionals copied and pasted a lot of their details.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Figures.

Can you ask for clarification from them since they did not cover it?


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

GAN said:


> Figures.
> 
> Can you ask for clarification from them since they did not cover it?


We have. They follow up with "all penetrations must be sealed. Methods to be determined in field"


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Geez

Total Bull Ka Ka. Another way to take liability away from themselves.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

How did your estimator figure you would do it? Hopefully, he put some thought into it while throwing a number at it.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Plumbus said:


> How did your estimator figure you would do it? Hopefully, he put some thought into it while throwing a number at it.


Dude missed a lot. Valve handle extensions, clean outs, strut for hangers, the fact that copper dwv is required over patient rooms, not pvc...


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Flyout95 said:


> Dude missed a lot. Valve handle extensions, clean outs, strut for hangers, the fact that copper dwv is required over patient rooms, not pvc...


I can see missing the pipe type requirement, but strut?


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

How about cutting with a multimaster


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Just set the toilet after tile has been installed and fire caulk around the toilet


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