# Radiant heat



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I am going to be starting plumbing and heat on a new home this spring. (I do the occassional house) 

The guy insists on copper heat piping with finned pipe under the subfloor between the joists.

Does anybody do this anymore?

I have seen staple up pex with reflecting shields or pex layed in grooved OSB. never fin tube............


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Your customer is a nutcase.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Tell him to have an engineer draw it up, and sign off on it. Then do it exactly as the print shows. 

The pex people do it that way. They KNOW it will work. 

I think fin and tube would warm the subfloor, but I dont know that it would provide enough to make up for the heat loss of the space. Would you still run it at 190 degrees? Who can answer those questions?

I can hear it now, "It's not warm enough in here, and you put this in....."


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Your customer is a nutcase.


Yes, eccentric oil man building a 16,000 square foot home.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Tell him to have an engineer draw it up, and sign off on it. Then do it exactly as the print shows.
> 
> The pex people do it that way. They KNOW it will work.
> 
> ...


I will NOT be designing this system.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> Yes, eccentric oil man building a 16,000 square foot home.


He's trying to use a product specifically designed to heat the air around it to heat through an air barrier, it won't work and the house will be cold all the time.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

:yes::yes::yes:



Killertoiletspider said:


> He's trying to use a product specifically designed to heat the air around it to heat through an air barrier, it won't work and the house will be cold all the time.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

pex with heat transfer plates or I walk.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> He's trying to use a product specifically designed to heat the air around it to heat through an air barrier, it won't work and the house will be cold all the time.


Yes, it will work. I've seen it with my own eyes. 

I think there are better ways of doing it, but it will work.


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

*my home*

I have changed both my heating and air unit in last 10 yrs. Both are working good no problems)Can the new boiler type systems be installed in a 30 yr old home with full walk around basement?, all piping is under flooring and visible in basement. ( No dropped ceilings) I know nothing about heating @air ,but have seen some of these units(out on jobs) in new homes that looked and worked awsome says the HO.I am taking the day off today to rest, I didnt cull anycalls this week and I am whooped, and thank goodness so far the phone hasnt rang ,if it does I will probable go get it .The only way I can get out of workin is go fishing. My wife has been looking at some of my [email protected] magazines and asked me if one ( gas boiler) unit could heat and cool our house and heat the water too.Its just hard for me to comprehend those radiators in all the rooms ,but for someone who knows that trade its probable an easy job.( I guess I am just dreaming and wishful thinking)


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## spudwrench (Sep 15, 2009)

Deja vu I did a repipe on an installed system like this a few years ago. Without getting all breathy about it, this is my take. Works with durock and tile over it. Wood flooring, not so good, pad and carpet, forget it. The room temp. swings alot.Lots of drilling and fighting with wires and plumbing. Must be in every space, or you will feel it across the floor. Must be very close to the floor, so drilling is in the top third of the joists, most builders don't like that. Long runs expand, if not isolated or suspended properly, squeeks and creeks occur because you do still use high temp. water. I am sure that you know, staple up works good, grooved floor is better, tube in litecreet is the best, or another alternative is the euro-styled baseboard. Sounds like the person can fund the infloor, and want's it, but needs educated about modern systems. Have your supplier find a working job that you can take the client to, and that homeowner will sell it for you. Never met anyone that didn't love their infloor system.


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## spudwrench (Sep 15, 2009)

Forgot, the joist spaces must be insulated very well. Batts don't do it. Fin tube heat travels in all directions. The basement, or crawl will be hot.


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## MNplumber (May 15, 2009)

*Gypcrete is the only true solution.*

In my opinion the best method is to place radiant heating in a lightweight floating slab above the subfloor. I have done many radiant jobs, including several staple up methods, flooring panels, etc. There are a million different products on the market. Staple up works, but why do it in a new home? Its sole purpose, in my opinion, is to add a "warm floor" in the remodeled home or a home thats celing is open from below. I dont believe and will never be convinced that it should ever be used as the primary heat source for a home. Why run 180 degree water to achieve poorer results than I could achieve from running 100-110 degree water. To me that is absurd. From my experience, the cost of install is about a wash considering the time to hang pipe below, the cost of the fins, insulation below tubing, etc. with the gypcrete. And any added cost will surely be made up in energy consumption.
The second option I would give him is Raupanel (by Rehau) simply because of the way that they are designed to work. These panels have minimal heat loss in comparison with other panel designs (Uponor, Viega, etc.)but can be very labor intensive to install. Like I said earlier I have done many radiants jobs in every application. Sure they can all work, but efficiency and comfort have to be critical in every radiant design decision that is made. Bottom line: your customer will thank you down the road if you can convince him to install the tubing in Gypcrete.


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

When I get ready I will go to supply house and ask my salesman and a few of my union buddies to reccomend someone to me to do complete job.Geta price, ask how long job will take ,leave him a key and take wife down to fla to see her brother sos I can do some fishing and give him my cell #to call when hes done and yes I will ask him to show me a couple of his other jobs so I can see how they work .It funny I have never had anything serious stolen from me and never been acused of being a thief .So I feel if I find someone that comes to me highly reccommended,(no nachos) and check out his work and ref. I feel I can leave and let him do his thang and sleep well. This will be a few yrs down the road unless my boss(wife) really gets anxious


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## rex (Jun 13, 2008)

i did a job a while back the boiler system was a monoflo system not like it matters.....put in some baseboard on the 2nd floor addition but didnt touch any of the existing 3/4 blk baseboard tubing

they put new hard wood floor in the kitchen.... underneath the kitchen floor were the existing 3/4blk pipes uninsulaated real close to the sub floor and you definetly could feel the warm spots in the wood floor in the kitchen.....

would it heat a whole house no with finned tube maybe


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Have been doing radiant heating for over 15 years. All our systems we design... in any event in regards to infloor heating copper would perform better than any pex as copper has a higher heat transfer. I would not recommend to any one to use copper instead of pex as the cost for material and labour would be 5 times as much not to mention expansion of copper (noise). Infloor heating between the floor joist should not exceed 150 deg F as damage will result to the subfloor and flooring above. Infloor heating is a slow process of heating the mass then radianting that heat from the mass. Furhter more it is not proper to over heat that mass as over heating will take place and room temperature will rise above the desired temperature. The temperature will not be controllable at this point as it takes just as long to emit the heat as it did to heat the object in the first place.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

saw it once. it worked. i don't know how efficient it was, but it worked. i didn't do it, i was the electrician on the job. breid.........................:rockon:


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