# HWT maintenance



## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Does anyone run a standard maintenance program for water heaters?

Anode swap, flush etc.?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> Does anyone run a standard maintenance program for water heaters?
> 
> Anode swap, flush etc.?


Yep on gas Hwt! Annual service! Check lockout, lockup, input etc! Make sure the tnp works check the X tank . One hour! Know a guy whose is all over fill tubes and anodes! Seems to be working for him! I hate flushing tanks because you usually get callbacks for stiring up sediment!:yes:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Around here, if you started a HWT maintenance program, you would go broke. Why, because most people around these parts, aint gonna spend money, if it aint broke. Like one my favorite lines, can explain it all;

We don't have preventative maintenance, we have crisis management!


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

To clarify the situation, I've got a couple hundred tanks out on rental and I'm trying to determine if it's worth it to swap anodes (and when), etc., to extend the life of the units or if the time/cost involved isn't worth it.

Most of the tanks are natural gas conventional units and about 20% are power vented units. No electric. All Rheem.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

How would u flush a water heater if it was full of sediments?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

TallCoolOne said:


> How would u flush a water heater if it was full of sediments?


With the flush handle of course...


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> With the flush handle of course...


Rim Shot....................


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

MarkToo said:


> To clarify the situation, I've got a couple hundred tanks out on rental .


Clarify plz?

You own a property management company and you have rental units?

Or you rent out Water heaters?

Never heard of anyone renting out water heaters


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

If you let them spot boil, your chances for premature failure will raise dramatically. With an impact wrench, changing an anode is a breeze if you have room above the heater. If I were in your situation I would do it. A flush every year and I would start with every other for the anode rod and adjust my schedule depending on how bad thee rod was previously.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

TallCoolOne said:


> Clarify plz?
> 
> You own a property management company and you have rental units?
> 
> ...



I rent out water heaters. 

The gas companies have been doing it around here forever - it's more common than owning.

I'm trying to determine if it's worth running a maintenance schedule on them or just replace when they fail.

The current Rheems that are going in have an 8 year warranty.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Just a thought...

For those whom change the anode with an impact, or any other tightly secured component...Do you think it will damage the glass lining on the tank?

I'm hesitant to wrench on the tank, whether it's changing the anode, the gas valve, T&P and nipples. The elements don't concern me as much, due to the rubber gasket.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> I rent out water heaters.
> 
> The gas companies have been doing it around here forever - it's more common than owning.
> 
> ...


I think your bigger question is going to be is it worth replacing the gas valve when you start doubling the heaters warranty.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Just a thought...
> 
> For those whom change the anode with an impact, or any other tightly secured component...Do you think it will damage the glass lining on the tank?
> 
> I'm hesitant to wrench on the tank, whether it's changing the anode, the gas valve, T&P and nipples. The elements don't concern me as much, due to the rubber gasket.


Without a boroscope I suppose I cannot be 100% sure but the impact doesn't really hammer that hard or long. I use a 1/2" electric Dewalt.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Just a thought...
> 
> For those whom change the anode with an impact, or any other tightly secured component...Do you think it will damage the glass lining on the tank?
> 
> I'm hesitant to wrench on the tank, whether it's changing the anode, the gas valve, T&P and nipples. The elements don't concern me as much, due to the rubber gasket.


Only thing I would change, and if it is under warranty is Gas Valve/Thermo Coupling

Anything else I am afraid it would leak down the road and I would be stuck with a huge insurance claim bill....


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

MarkToo said:


> I rent out water heaters.
> 
> The gas companies have been doing it around here forever - it's more common than owning.
> 
> ...


The least amount of times you go there the more profitable the rental will be...

I can see in slow times doing preventive maintenance on your rentals to drum up more work...

Mark ... I just started back to work yesterday after three months of torment of losing my mother and after that the wife's father ...

Your papers will be done this week


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

MarkToo said:


> I rent out water heaters.
> 
> The gas companies have been doing it around here forever - it's more common than owning.


I have never heard of anythng like that

Why do you or the Gas company rent out water heaters?

Do the people not have enuff money to buy one? 

Is this for people in need? or govt. assistance?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*works good in some parts of the country*



TallCoolOne said:


> I have never heard of anythng like that
> 
> Why do you or the Gas company rent out water heaters?
> 
> ...


 
it seems like this waterheater rental program works good in some parts of the usa.. In our area it fell flat on its face... the folks here are just too tight assed to rent a water heater... they will let them go till they are falling though the floor if they did not start leaking on them...






they are also too tight to do a maintaince program on water heaters also in our area... Its just not something folks want to do in Indy... but their are some suckers that will fall for it....... 

Now if you join the Ben Franklin club for $189 you get everything in your home checked out every year for $95 bucks a year... I dont thiknk they will actually change out the anode rod for the baisc cost... they are gonna gouge you reall good for the change out....

 but on the bright side 
you got your heater looked at and serviced annually....:yes:.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

TallCoolOne said:


> I have never heard of anythng like that
> 
> Why do you or the Gas company rent out water heaters?
> 
> ...


That's funny only renting to people that can't afford it...

Actually we screen every one ... These people can afford to buy a tank out right but they for some strange reason think not having to worry about a hwt replacement gives them comfort...at any cost


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I have seen the electric Co. Rentals. The second it blows they tell the home owner how much to replace and how much it will cost each month. That's when the home owner always decides to buy out right. They did not realize how much money they waisted till then. They never once got any maintenance on the unit. The never once saved any money. If anything they lost tons of money.
I also had a h/o give me the phone so I could talk with there water heater rental company. The person on the phone wanted me to charge the customer full price for the install. Then wanted me to give all info off the tank. I asked if they were paying me. He said no that's the home owners responsibility. I asked why do they need tank info. He had the nerve to say so they could continue the rental fees now that the old tank is gone.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

TallCoolOne said:


> I have never heard of anythng like that
> 
> Why do you or the Gas company rent out water heaters?
> 
> ...



It's simply the status quo around here.

I guess most people feel better not having to deal with it themselves. I would estimate that less than 5% of the gas HWT in this area are owned. That's why I ask the original question, as my HWT experience is simply quite limited (up to now), as I get very few calls for them outside of large commercial ones - I could count on one hand the number per year.

Builders have rental units installed in every house as it saves them a bundle over time and doesn't affect the sale price.

Landlords have them as they pass the fee on to the tenant.

Homeowners have them as they don't want to deal with maintenance and service.

No one bats an eye when purchasing a property if it shows the HWT is not a chattel but rented.

It's simply how it is. I have no idea how it started but it was decades ago to be sure.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

MarkToo said:


> It's simply the status quo around here.
> 
> I guess most people feel better not having to deal with it themselves. I would estimate that less than 5% of the gas HWT in this area are owned. That's why I ask the original question, as my HWT experience is simply quite limited (up to now), as I get very few calls for them outside of large commercial ones - I could count on one hand the number per year.
> 
> ...


Interesting.

Thank you for explaining. :thumbsup:


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Yes do it!

I use a cordless Milwaukee 1/2" impact wrench with claimed 450 ft/ibs of torque.

If the units are on softened water, check them every 1 to 2 years.

Municipal water systems can slide til 3 though every manufacturer recommends to do it every year.


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## CPT (Aug 13, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> I rent out water heaters.
> 
> The gas companies have been doing it around here forever - it's more common than owning.
> 
> ...


I never heard of that before, sounds like it might be a smart idea for low income customers. How much do you charge a month?


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

CPT said:


> I never heard of that before, sounds like it might be a smart idea for low income customers. How much do you charge a month?



My contract states the price will be less than the gas company's rate.

They are currently $24.87/mo. for power vents and $17.62/mo. for conventional. I'm a little under that...


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

MarkToo said:


> My contract states the price will be less than the gas company's rate.
> 
> They are currently $24.87/mo. for power vents and $17.62/mo. for conventional. I'm a little under that...


The conventional tank price seems right .... The power vent is under priced


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> The conventional tank price seems right .... The power vent is under priced


It is in theory. I'm governed by the original terms of the contract...

Having said that, I didn't have to buy and install them all new and considering the overall cost to me for the existing contract, I'm not going to complain.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

TallCoolOne said:


> How would u flush a water heater if it was full of sediments?


 Ever flushed a recirc line or tank? What happens when you replace a commercial tank, do you flush the system or just let her rip?:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Just a thought...
> 
> For those whom change the anode with an impact, or any other tightly secured component...Do you think it will damage the glass lining on the tank?
> 
> I'm hesitant to wrench on the tank, whether it's changing the anode, the gas valve, T&P and nipples. The elements don't concern me as much, due to the rubber gasket.


How do you think the manufacturer installs them?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Redwood said:


> How do you think the manufacturer installs them?


I don't know for certain, but I would think they use a torque wrench. 

However, I am certain you know that after a heater has been shipped and banged around during delivery and in service for a period of time it becomes weaker and stressed, and may even have begun to rust in areas...therefore making the removal of anodes, nipples and gas valves a risky proposition.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Nah they pound em in with an impact...

Now you take that old water heater...
Old pipes....
And you then try to keep it from trying to turn while you throw a wrench on it....

Or do you just pop the anode out with an Impact Wrench and not even have to hold the water heater...


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Point I'm attempting to make is that after a heater is several years old, taking out the anode, gas valves and nipples is not a very smart move. You'll end up with a leaker in many cases.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Quite possibly...

But I'd say the odds are greatly increased if you end up trying to spin the water heater with a wrench...

I've only changed anodes for stanky water problems and had no problems with the impact wrench.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

MarkToo said:


> It is in theory. I'm governed by the original terms of the contract...
> 
> Having said that, I didn't have to buy and install them all new and considering the overall cost to me for the existing contract, I'm not going to complain.


Thanks for that. I was calculating the cost of the unit, parts, labor, insurance, tax, bookkeeping, maintenance, call-outs, collections, vacancy, bankruptcy, vandalism, etc, etc. and to break even would be app. 30 months.

I don't know...I would have to check with my insurance company first. A couple of claims with my $500. deductible would sour me on the whole thing. Does Canada require contractors to have insurance or is it like your health care, where everyone is covered regardless?


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Point I'm attempting to make is that after a heater is several years old, taking out the anode, gas valves and nipples is not a very smart move. You'll end up with a leaker in many cases.


I agree 100%


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Quite possibly...
> 
> But I'd say the odds are greatly increased if you end up trying to spin the water heater with a wrench...
> 
> I've only changed anodes for stanky water problems and had no problems with the impact wrench.


Water heaters I use have the anode in the nipple on hot side of tank. How do you use an impact wrench for that? Just asking, not being a smart azz.

But then around here, the water must be good, cuz in over 30yrs, I can count on one hand, how many anode rods I've replaced, & that was only on well water, which I'm rarely exposed to.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Water heaters I use have the anode in the nipple on hot side of tank. How do you use an impact wrench for that? Just asking, not being a smart azz.
> 
> But then around here, the water must be good, cuz in over 30yrs, I can count on one hand, how many anode rods I've replaced, & that was only on well water, which I'm rarely exposed to.


I don't think they use an impact wrench for those. I believe they use a gorilla with a 4' pipe wrench.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I have never had a problem changing gas valves, ever. Bradford White even makes heaters that are mounted but not screwed into the tank. To be honest I have never had a problem changing anything on a water heater with enough clearances. Except the nipples that were installed by the gorilla.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Point I'm attempting to make is that after a heater is several years old, taking out the anode, gas valves and nipples is not a very smart move. You'll end up with a leaker in many cases.


The ports for all those items are welded to the tank and are quite stout. The point of doing maintenance is to keep good heaters in service and to identify failing units for replacement before they cause a flood.

If there is rust in the drainage, fail.

Look in the burner chamber, rust on bottom of tank? Fail

If the anode rode is completely consumed , fail.

If the homeowner doesn't agree to replace the heater, note it on the invoice, get signature and wish them well

Always put a brass hose cap on the drain valve and check packing nut before walking away.

Always check water temperature before touching heater, some people try to con you for repairs.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

JK949 said:


> The ports for all those items are welded to the tank and are quite stout. The point of doing maintenance is to keep good heaters in service and to identify failing units for replacement before they cause a flood.
> 
> If there is rust in the drainage, fail.
> 
> ...


I know they're welded, however the tank is glass lined and when you torque the weldlets it will stress the glass lining and IMHO cause premature failure.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Titan Plumbing said:


> I know they're welded, however the tank is glass lined and when you torque the weldlets it will stress the glass lining and IMHO cause premature failure.


Not changing the anode can do the same thing if left to degrade down to the core. Also, it is recommended maintenance by every manufacturer. No point to flushing the heater if the anode isn't checked.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

JK949 said:


> Not changing the anode can do the same thing if left to degrade down to the core. Also, it is recommended maintenance by every manufacturer. No point to flushing the heater if the anode isn't checked.


I agree with this, however we all know heaters made today and for the last 15 +- yrs are not made to last, so why decrease the life of a heater by stressing the glass lining. My suggestion to the HO is to allow me to install a ball valve and hose adapter BEFORE I install/fill the heater...then they can flush it on a annual or bi-annual schedule, this will do nothing for the life of the anode, but it will allow them to get the most life from the heater.

My opinion is that once the heater is filled and begins it life of heating and pressurizing, it's on it's decline, so why not do what you can to prolong the life...by not stressing the heater with the removal of anodes, nipples, etc.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Titan Plumbing said:


> ...
> My opinion is that once the heater is filled and begins it life of heating and pressurizing, it's on it's decline, so why not do what you can to prolong the life...by not stressing the heater with the removal of anodes, nipples, etc.


In addition, if the wh is the old style, we aren't doing the ho any favors by repairing it.

I never been one to repair a wh anyway, except for the thermocouple. If it's out of warranty, I sell a new one.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Plumber said:


> In addition, if the wh is the old style, we aren't doing the ho any favors by repairing it.
> 
> I never been one to repair a wh anyway, except for the thermocouple. If it's out of warranty, I sell a new one.


Same here


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Sounds like needless up selling to me. Pure thievery to sell a new water heater if the old one is not leaking.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Sounds like needless up selling to me. Pure thievery to sell a new water heater if the old one is not leaking.


Well it is out of warranty. Not many things are made to out last it's warranty by much. Now, otherwise I agree 100%


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Sounds like needless up selling to me. Pure thievery to sell a new water heater if the old one is not leaking.


Did you roll out of bed this morning and bump your head ?:laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Did you roll out of bed this morning and bump your head ?:laughing:


Just applying the same moral standard of sewer replacement sales to water heater sales.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Selling water heater replacements on tanks that can be that can be patched up with a new anode rod, gas valve or relief valve is the same damn thing as selling a new sewer that can have roots rodded out.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Selling water heater replacements on tanks that can be that can be patched up with a new anode rod, gas valve or relief valve is the same damn thing as selling a new sewer that can have roots rodded out.


You'll get NO argument from me.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> You'll get NO argument from me.


Not directed at you AS but my Plumbing Hypocrite and Self Righteous detectors have been going off like crazy this morning.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Selling water heater replacements on tanks that can be that can be patched up with a new anode rod, gas valve or relief valve is the same damn thing as selling a new sewer that can have roots rodded out.


Yup those roots came from somewhere, and a seven year old W heatear is not going to last must longer, though a thirty year old heater might have some life left.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Your doing your customer a disservice ... Not selling them a new one


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Your doing your customer a disservice ... Not selling them a new one


And yourself, because chances (at least my chances) are that water heater will start leaking shortly after you breath on it!


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Your doing your customer a disservice ... Not selling them a new one


I agree


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> And yourself, because chances (at least my chances) are that water heater will start leaking shortly after you breath on it!


And guess who will have a pissed off customer posting all over the net, and or them filing a insurance claim for water damage on thier sheet rock / carpet, etc

Not going to happen to me, Seen too many water heaters that appeared new looking to leak and flood the house, or the drain pan gets stopped up due to a brass swing check valve sticking, in the drain pan line connecting to the condensation line.......


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