# Dangerous water heater installation



## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

It's very disappointing to see stubborn people risk their lives to save money.

3 days ago my neighbor banged on my door at 11pm with a bad water heater leak. When I saw what the previous owner did I was shocked! They installed an atmospheric vent water heater in place of a direct vent water heater. They used the inner part of the direct vent and attached it to the draft hood, the outer part was just there, allowing outside air in for no reason. The heater is in a townhome in a closet in his kitchen. 

The top of the heater was brown, and the plastic isolators around the hot and cold pipe were melted and almost gone. I shut the heater down and very clearly explained to him how he, his wife, and baby are lucky to be ALIVE. 

I explained to him the types of heaters that could be installed (power vent and direct vent) and explained the dangers of using another heater similar to the one he has

He and his father in law are now installing another atmospheric vent heater, and are now going to put their family at risk once again.


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## plumber tim (Jul 4, 2013)

If it where me I would call the gas company and tell them how they have a atmospheric water heater installed to a direct vent connection. They will lock that meter out for sure.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Tell him not to wake you up again at 11. Cheap *******...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plumber tim said:


> If it where me I would call the gas company and tell them how they have a atmospheric water heater installed to a direct vent connection. They will lock that meter out for sure.


Correct, drop a dime to the gas co. And the plumbing inspector. The gas co. Will shut it down and document the violations with a warning to not turn on the appliance, and it's good to notify the inspector about such installs to keep him in the loop and he can follow up with a registered letter with possible fines to follow. Don't think of it as being a snitch, you may saves some lives on this one.

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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

I would love to do all that. Problem is that I do a lot of business in my neighborhood and don't need someone running around telling them I called everyone because I was pissed off about not getting the job. 

These are Apollo heating systems too, that heater will be running all the time!


I sent him numerous texts today explaining about the dangers and even told him the only two kinds of heaters that would be a fit for his application. He told me he got some good advice from other people and thinks it will be ok since he never had a problem before. HE DID HAVE A PROBLEM BEFORE!


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## plumber tim (Jul 4, 2013)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> I would love to do all that. Problem is that I do a lot of business in my neighborhood and don't need someone running around telling them I called everyone because I was pissed off about not getting the job.
> 
> These are Apollo heating systems too, that heater will be running all the time!
> 
> ...


Post the address I'm sure someone on here will call the gas co.


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

plumber tim said:


> Post the address I'm sure someone on here will call the gas co.


Duh, don't you think he would still blame me??


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> Duh, don't you think he would still blame me??


Lose business or lose lives? Sounds like an easy decision to me.

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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

You have to explain to him that you will call to save his family's life. You don't have an option dude.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

redbeardplumber said:


> You have to explain to him that you will call to save his family's life. *You don't have an option dude*.


He already explained to the customer the dangers of the situation, if that customer is that ignorant to ignore the advice, he's on his own. Personally, I would let it go.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Titletownplumbr said:


> He already explained to the customer the dangers of the situation, if that customer is that ignorant to ignore the advice, he's on his own. Personally, I would let it go.


If he lets it go and someone dies , how would he feel then? He may end up in trouble for not reporting and something happens. He was the last licensed professional on the property and did nothing, lawyers love this crap. My suggestion is to cover his a$$ and report it.

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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> I would love to do all that. Problem is that I do a lot of business in my neighborhood and don't need someone running around telling them I called everyone because I was pissed off about not getting the job.
> 
> These are Apollo heating systems too, that heater will be running all the time!
> 
> ...












I advise you to call on behalf of the baby and the wife. He's putting their lives at risk. 

Think how you'll feel if you go out to work in the morning and they are wheeling that little infant out with a white sheet over him/her.

Make the call anonymously.


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

You guys don't get it do you? He didn't get other estimates. Who else would know it was a bad install?? 


I warned him, repeatedly. 

I told him the heater he got cannot be installed properly

I told him he has the wrong heater 

I told him it doesn't matter how good the installer is, it can never be right 

I told him what heaters were correct for the application

I told him the night I saw it that I had to shut it down and couldn't leave him with it running. 

I told him a small breeze could push the exhaust gas back into the house causing carbon monoxide poisoning

I told him every negative thing I could think of. He took the advice of his friends and family. 

Legally, I am clear, its all in text messages. 

The real kicker here is that he works for a local FD as a paramedic!!!


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> If he lets it go and someone dies , how would he feel then? He may end up in trouble for not reporting and something happens. He was the last licensed professional on the property *and did nothing,* lawyers love this crap. My suggestion is to *cover his a$$ *and report it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Stop being a drama llama, he explained to the customer the situation and the dangers involved. No work or money exchanged hands, why should he have to cover his ass? He's not responsible if anything happens, he performed no work and no money exchanged hands. The homeowner was given his options and he made the wrong choice, it's all on the homeowner.


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## Pac Rim Plumber (Jun 23, 2010)

If you have a attorney on retainer have him draft a formal letter stating your concerns for record and that for liability reasons you will need to contact the AHJ.


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## Chauncey (Dec 18, 2008)

*Drop a quarter*

Plan and simple. Call his wife. Problem solved. She will nag and nag him till he can't take it any more. Call the gas company and have them check it out. Screw him if he gets pissed off. Then send him a bill for saving his families life. Some people are just cheap arrogant *******s. His family should not have to pay the ultimate price of his ignorance.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> You guys don't get it do you? He didn't get other estimates. Who else would know it was a bad install??
> 
> I warned him, repeatedly.
> 
> ...


Go over and turn off the gas meter to CYA!


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

he works for the fire department... so he is probably
getting advice from his dumb ass fire department buddies who think they know what they are all talking about.......and on top of that he probably thinks you are trying to cheat or hose him, so he is gonna listen to the fire-men over taking your advice..

firemen are notorious for jack-legging stuff all the time
in our city....

 Maybe you should Send him a bill with a NO CHARGE on it for the 11pm call..and have it all written down on the ticket..... 

 keep your text messages and just forget about it..



You cant fix stupid....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

If I made a phone call and had my attorney write a letter every time a customer refused to correct a safety issue, I would spend every day writing letters and making phone calls.

Your responsibility has limits.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Titletownplumbr said:


> Stop being a drama llama, he explained to the customer the situation and the dangers involved. No work or money exchanged hands, why should he have to cover his ass? He's not responsible if anything happens, he performed no work and no money exchanged hands. The homeowner was given his options and he made the wrong choice, it's all on the homeowner.


However you feel about it it still could be negligence if something happens and someone can place the plumber being on that site, lawyers are scum, they will drag EVERYBODY down. I deal with this crap on a daily basis , and I see these situations very often. If I as an inspector walk in I immediately call the Gas co. To cover my a$$, who cares what anyone thinks, it's dangerous what's going on over there and something needs to done. He came on here with a story that obviously was looking for input on how to handle it, the homeowner doesn't want to listen, calling authorities is the ONLY way to handle it now. I just he and everybody else that feels that the "I told you so" mentality is useless .

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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> However you feel about it it still could be negligence if something happens and someone can place the plumber being on that site, lawyers are scum, they will drag EVERYBODY down. I deal with this crap on a daily basis , and I see these situations very often. If I as an inspector walk in I immediately call the Gas co. To cover my a$$, who cares what anyone thinks, it's dangerous what's going on over there and something needs to done. He came on here with a story that obviously was looking for input on how to handle it, the homeowner doesn't want to listen, calling authorities is the ONLY way to handle it now. I just he and everybody else that feels that the "I told you so" mentality is useless .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


We can't idiot proof everything, people have to start being responsible for the choices they make and stop blaming others, pathetic.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Titletownplumbr said:


> We can't idiot proof everything, people have to start being responsible for the choices they make and stop blaming others, pathetic.


I hope that you my friend Never have a situation like this happen to you, and choose to ignore it. Who knows, nothing may never happen, but I wouldn't take the chance. In our continuing education we have in our state, it is taught to survey the plumbing and gas systems for 2 reasons

1- to make sure what your connecting to can support additional systems .
2- to survey for safety and health violations.

As a professional license holder it should be your responsibility to TRY to correct a situation , even if it means "ratting " someone out. Safety Safety Safety!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> *I hope that you my friend Never have a situation like this happen to you, and choose to ignore it.* Who knows, nothing may never happen, but I wouldn't take the chance. In our continuing education we have in our state, it is taught to survey the plumbing and gas systems for 2 reasons
> 
> 1- to make sure what your connecting to can support additional systems .
> 2- to survey for safety and health violations.
> ...


28 yrs. I've been in the trade and I've seen all kinds of unsafe hackery, if people *choose* not to spend money to correct the problem properly, I lose zero sleep at night. Life is too short for me to worry about the ignorance of fools.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Titletownplumbr said:


> 28 yrs. I've been in the trade and I've seen all kinds of unsafe hackery, if people choose not to spend money to correct the problem properly, I lose zero sleep at night. Life is too short for me to worry about the ignorance of fools.


The point is the fact that the plumber witnessed a unsafe and possible deadly situation , and what should be done. If you would choose to do nothing that's your decision that YOU would have to live with, just pray nothing happens. I would hope that someone with my believes and philosophy's would do the same for one of your family members. This crap kills people every year, if it can be avoided why wouldn't you try to correct it by call gas co or AHJ? I had 2 situations just this week from CO issues, 1 place 7 people went to the hospital. I don't care how long you've been doing plumbing, what does that have to do with it? If you've been doing this trade that amount of time YOU should know the RIGHT thing to do. Who knows after the fact the people may thank you for saving them from their own ignorance, it happens to me very often. They're mad at first but when they are educated about the severity of the situation , their attitude changes.

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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> The point is the fact that the plumber witnessed a unsafe and possible deadly situation , and what should be done. If you would choose to do nothing that's your decision that YOU would have to live with, just pray nothing happens. I would hope that someone with my believes and philosophy's would do the same for one of your family members. This crap kills people every year, if it can be avoided why wouldn't you try to correct it by call gas co or AHJ? I had 2 situations just this week from CO issues, 1 place 7 people went to the hospital. I don't care how long you've been doing plumbing, what does that have to do with it? If you've been doing this trade that amount of time YOU should know the RIGHT thing to do. Who knows after the fact the* people may thank you for saving them from their own ignorance, it happens to me very often. They're mad at first but when they are educated about the severity of the situation , their attitude changes.*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Good god are you pathetic, the plumber who started this thread explained the dangers of the situation and the homeowners ignored it and they chose to make an unwise decision in the name of money. That particular plumber already wasted enough time on that idiot, it's time to move on. Once again, I sleep like a baby when ignorant people make poor choices.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Titletownplumbr said:


> Good god are you pathetic, the plumber who started this thread explained the dangers of the situation and the homeowners ignored it and they chose to make an unwise decision in the name of money. That particular plumber already wasted enough time on that idiot, it's time to move on. Once again, I sleep like a baby when ignorant people make poor choices.


That's funny!!!!!! I take my job VERY serious, you can call me what you want I've got big shoulders. I think any PROFESSIONAL on here would possibly agree that you are wrong. This situation doesn't cost YOU anything to fix, and maybe it would be you coming to correct it, or maybe YOU would turn a blind eye on it and go home and sleep like a baby.

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> If I made a phone call and had my attorney write a letter every time a customer refused to correct a safety issue, I would spend every day writing letters and making phone calls. Your responsibility has limits.


This is why you let the douches like me be the bad guy. Lol. Drop a dime and it's out of your hands

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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

It's hard to believe that they wouldn't want to address the situation if you explained the dangers of carbon monoxide. All it takes is a strong wind in the right direction and you have a recipe for disaster. 

I wish that natural selection was still a factor these days. The lazy and incompetent wouldn't be able to sustain themselves.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> That's funny!!!!!! *I take my job VERY serious, *you can call me what you want I've got big shoulders. I think any PROFESSIONAL on here would possibly agree that you are wrong. This situation doesn't cost YOU anything to fix, and maybe it would be you coming to correct it, or maybe YOU would turn a blind eye on it and go home and sleep like a baby.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Dude, get over yourself, you're not the god of plumbing. Learn to control the things you can and let go of the rest. There's lots of stupidity out there and there's nothing you can do about it.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Titletownplumbr said:


> Dude, get over yourself, you're not the god of plumbing. Learn to control the things you can and let go of the rest. There's lots of stupidity out there and there's nothing you can do about it.


When did I say I was a plumbing god, this about being a professional and a human being. You obviously have no concern about anybody but yourself. Their are peoples lives at stake . I'm not going to argue with you anymore because you are obliviously clueless. I've got the same licensee as all you guys , the only difference is I tell people if they do things right or wrong. I witness potential deadly situations a couple of times a week and I am trying to inform my fellow plumbers on this forum of what would be the proper handling of certain situations. Clearly your the smartest guy here so you keep doing what you do, and I'll try to help where I can. I love how people like you think that just because a plumber becomes an inspector we are all jerks, I use a lot of common sense and sometimes I will supersede the code with it, I haven't forgotten how it is to do what you guys do everyday . I have a HUGE respect for all plumbers and the CODE. But I have no tolerance for ignorance and can't believe you are reacting the way you are because I've tried to help with I think some VERY important advise.

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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

Titletownplumbr said:


> He already explained to the customer the dangers of the situation, if that customer is that ignorant to ignore the advice, he's on his own. Personally, I would let it go.


 Wrong, its one thing if the guys risking his own life, but other people live there too. Were they consulted? I don't think so. Make the call, you have a responsibility. He's forced the OP's hand. The consequences are up to the inspector. The only wasted money is the money he should not have spent on the wrong appliance in the first place.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

CaberTosser said:


> Wrong, its one thing if the guys risking his own life, but other people live there too. Were they consulted? I don't think so. Make the call, you have a responsibility. He's forced the OP's hand. The consequences are up to the inspector. The only wasted money is the money he should not have spent on the wrong appliance in the first place.


Finally some back up and someone who gets it. Lol

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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> Finally some back up and someone who gets it. Lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


You don't need a back up..lol... is just common sense, people's life worth more than a few biz in the neighborhood.... even worse, you can keep the whole business or millions but I'll prefer save the kid or kids life over the money.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Gargalaxy said:


> You don't need a back up..lol... is just common sense, people's life worth more than a few biz in the neighborhood.... even worse, you can keep the whole business or millions but I'll prefer save the kid or kids life over the money.


I agree call the inspector and the gas company and save these peoples lives ASAP!!!!!!!!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> ...I shut the heater down and very clearly explained to him how he, his wife, and baby are lucky to be ALIVE.
> 
> I explained to him the types of heaters that could be installed (power vent and direct vent) and explained the dangers of using another heater similar to the one he has....


If Andersen had made a call to the AHJ and/or the gas company, that's all they would have done. Our gas utility will shut a heater down for improper venting or connection issues but they do not necessarily shut down the gas supply to the whole house. The AHJ won't shut anything off. There is nothing to prevent a homeowner from committing plumbacide if they are determined to do so.

We have a responsibility to have our work be at safe code standards and to also notify a customer of unsafe code issues we see. Plumbers are in no position to force work to be performed. That is a conflict of interest. This is one of the reasons inspectors are not allowed to work as plumbers in areas where they are inspectors. We are code compliant, not code enforcement.

I don't call the police when I see people speeding or driving without safety belts either.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> If Andersen had made a call to the AHJ and/or the gas company, that's all they would have done. Our gas utility will shut a heater down for improper venting or connection issues but they do not necessarily shut down the gas supply to the whole house. The AHJ won't shut anything off. There is nothing to prevent a homeowner from committing plumbacide if they are determined to do so. We have a responsibility to have our work be at safe code standards and to also notify a customer of unsafe code issues we see. Plumbers are in no position to force work to be performed. That is a conflict of interest. This is one of the reasons inspectors are not allowed to work as plumbers in areas where they are inspectors. We are code compliant, not code enforcement. I don't call the police when I see people speeding or driving without safety belts either.


Apples and oranges with the seatbelt scenario. You are correct about the gas being shut off, but sometimes if there is enough violations it can happen. The whole point of this thread to me is checks and balances, it's a paper trail that hopefully the homeowner will take serious enough to not turn on equipment. I had a situation this past winter had gas co shut down 3 boilers and 3 HWH , sent homeowners a registered letter with a timeline for corrections, they went over the deadline , I made a second visit to the property and everything was on, guess what, ALL the gas was locked out at the meter, and if got corrected real SOO. After that. The point is I had a paper trail to cover my butt, give people enough rope and then I'll hang them. Told these people how dangerous the situation it was and they still turned it on, but by keeping proper records and timelines it got addressed.

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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Agreed on the paper trail. Best practice is to note it in writing on the invoice and have them sign their declination of the work. 

Can't cover yourself too well on text messages.


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

I called the city and reported it. The building and plumbing inspector know about it. Problem is that they didn't have a permit process in place for water heater replacement, they said they can't legally do much. They are going to talk to the local fire department and see if they can do anything since it's a multiple dwelling building


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> I called the city and reported it. The building and plumbing inspector know about it. Problem is that they didn't have a permit process in place for water heater replacement, they said they can't legally do much. They are going to talk to the local fire department and see if they can do anything since it's a multiple dwelling building


Prove they don't know sh!t about it.. only know how to collect money for permits.. and go after liecensed plumbers without permits.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Am I the only one here that has to deal directly with gas co and no inspectors? Here you only deal with the gas provider no plumbing inspectors. Sense they don't have the power to sever gas supply the inspections on gas related items are done by the gas company. This makes it a lot easier to resolve this problem ,one call to one office. That way nobody turns anything back on until it's fixed. If the gas gets shut off in the warmer months and the home owner doesn't comply I have seen houses freeze up and the gas co refuses to turn it back on until all issues are addressed. That makes for some interesting calls.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> Am I the only one here that has to deal directly with gas co and no inspectors? Here you only deal with the gas provider no plumbing inspectors. Sense they don't have the power to sever gas supply the inspections on gas related items are done by the gas company. This makes it a lot easier to resolve this problem ,one call to one office. That way nobody turns anything back on until it's fixed. If the gas gets shut off in the warmer months and the home owner doesn't comply I have seen houses freeze up and the gas co refuses to turn it back on until all issues are addressed. That makes for some interesting calls.


The Gas Co, is not code enforcement, they are providing utility. Here in Ma, job gets approved by inspector and gets tagged then gas gets turned on .

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> I called the city and reported it. The building and plumbing inspector know about it. Problem is that they didn't have a permit process in place for water heater replacement, they said they can't legally do much. They are going to talk to the local fire department and see if they can do anything since it's a multiple dwelling building


That's crazy, what if you do a new install of a HWH? Then what? Our permits our a uniform state permit, separate plumbing and gas with boxes to check off new, renovation or replacement with every gas or plumbing fixture/ appliance on it with extra spaces to add unlisted items. Your municipality has got to implement some better permit system to safeguard these potential issues

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> The Gas Co, is not code enforcement, they are providing utility. Here in Ma, job gets approved by inspector and gets tagged then gas gets turned on . Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


That's like asking the water/ sewer dept. To perform a plumbing inspection.

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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> I called the city and reported it. The building and plumbing inspector know about it. Problem is that they didn't have a permit process in place for water heater replacement, they said they can't legally do much. They are going to talk to the local fire department and see if they can do anything since it's a multiple dwelling building


He did the right thing in every possible way (as a plumber, as a human and legally), from now on is not in his hands anymore.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> The Gas Co, is not code enforcement, they are providing utility. Here in Ma, job gets approved by inspector and gets tagged then gas gets turned on . Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


not here the gas company regulates the whole thing inspectors has no jurisdiction. LP is state LP gas inspector no plumbing inspectors.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> That's like asking the water/ sewer dept. To perform a plumbing inspection. Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 water and sewer dept have jurisdiction until the curb. Labors have water and sewer mains in there contract


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> water and sewer dept have jurisdiction until the curb. Labors have water and sewer mains in there contract


I get that, I was making a point that the gas co is just a provider, around here they can shut down equipment, but they have no jurisdiction to enforcing code. Once a system has been deemed unsafe by the gas co, a plumber/Gasfitter must secure a permit make corrections have an inspection and the the inspector approved or Denies the job. At the point when it is approved the inspector tagged the system to be turned back on, at that point gas co returns service back on. I would never want a rep from a gas co to perform a inspection, some of these guys are just glorified meter readers with a pair of players in their pocket. I don't understand why the gas co would even want to take the liability on.

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> I get that, I was making a point that the gas co is just a provider, around here they can shut down equipment, but they have no jurisdiction to enforcing code. Once a system has been deemed unsafe by the gas co, a plumber/Gasfitter must secure a permit make corrections have an inspection and the the inspector approved or Denies the job. At the point when it is approved the inspector tagged the system to be turned back on, at that point gas co returns service back on. I would never want a rep from a gas co to perform a inspection, some of these guys are just glorified meter readers with a pair of players in their pocket. I don't understand why the gas co would even want to take the liability on. Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Freakin spell check, pliers!!!!!

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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> I get that, I was making a point that the gas co is just a provider, around here they can shut down equipment, but they have no jurisdiction to enforcing code. Once a system has been deemed unsafe by the gas co, a plumber/Gasfitter must secure a permit make corrections have an inspection and the the inspector approved or Denies the job. At the point when it is approved the inspector tagged the system to be turned back on, at that point gas co returns service back on. I would never want a rep from a gas co to perform a inspection, some of these guys are just glorified meter readers with a pair of players in their pocket. I don't understand why the gas co would even want to take the liability on. Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


so what qualification makes a inspector superior? A company inspector has the same information about the install, the same code requirements and the power to shut service down permanently. So I don't see a difference they both are just reps in there own way with a pair of players in there pocket. To actually be serous the inspections all just come down to one thing,liability. It depends who is willing to be liable, the city,state or gas co. There is no difference who inspects the system as long as they are a competent person. Competent person is a very wide term.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> so what qualification makes a inspector superior? A company inspector has the same information about the install, the same code requirements and the power to shut service down permanently. So I don't see a difference they both are just reps in there own way with a pair of players in there pocket. To actually be serous the inspections all just come down to one thing,liability. It depends who is willing to be liable, the city,state or gas co. There is no difference who inspects the system as long as they are a competent person. Competent person is a very wide term.


Shrewd somewhat, in my state we do double the amount of continuing ED, and seminars , also the liability falls on the municipality. It all comes down to how your state laws are written I guess.

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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> I would love to do all that. Problem is that I do a lot of business in my neighborhood and don't need someone running around telling them I called everyone because I was pissed off about not getting the job.
> 
> These are Apollo heating systems too, that heater will be running all the time!
> 
> I sent him numerous texts today explaining about the dangers and even told him the only two kinds of heaters that would be a fit for his application. He told me he got some good advice from other people and thinks it will be ok since he never had a problem before. HE DID HAVE A PROBLEM BEFORE!


Wow. The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. The reason he says he got some good advice is because it was advice that supported his cheap and ignorant decision. Actually, ignorance would denote that he was unaware and simply didn't know. BUT HE DOES KNOW AND CHOOSES OTHERWISE. Thats plain asinine.


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## PlumberDan69 (May 9, 2012)

I read through most of this thread. It's ridiculous how people are with money and safety. Family and peoples lives should come first, not money. 

I like to explain carbon monoxide issues with the story that made national news a few months ago. A seafood restaurant in New England (I think Maryland) had customers getting sick. The manager went to the basement to check the mechanical area, HE DIED. The fire department had to carry him out in a body bag. Many people fell ill. The news headline ran that it was a "faulty water heater flu". 

When I saw that I felt sick... I hoped it wasn't a plumber that did ****ty job and cost someone their life. Or a restaurant owner being cheap. All of the commercial water heaters we install we go over the existing venting with a fine tooth comb. We now recommend and have been installing carbon monoxide alarms (in commercial and residential settings). It gives me piece of mind.

To the OP you may want to at least recommend a carbon monoxide detector/ alarm. But then again it sounds as if the man already knows everything.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

PlumberDan69 said:


> I read through most of this thread. It's ridiculous how people are with money and safety. Family and peoples lives should come first, not money. I like to explain carbon monoxide issues with the story that made national news a few months ago. A seafood restaurant in New England (I think Maryland) had customers getting sick. The manager went to the basement to check the mechanical area, HE DIED. The fire department had to carry him out in a body bag. Many people fell ill. The news headline ran that it was a "faulty water heater flu". When I saw that I felt sick... I hoped it wasn't a plumber that did ****ty job and cost someone their life. Or a restaurant owner being cheap. All of the commercial water heaters we install we go over the existing venting with a fine tooth comb. We now recommend and have been installing carbon monoxide alarms (in commercial and residential settings). It gives me piece of mind. To the OP you may want to at least recommend a carbon monoxide detector/ alarm. But then again it sounds as if the man already knows everything.


For residential in Ma we have Nicole's Law, all residential properties must have CO detectors, side wall vented equipment under 7' Hard wired CO in basemen , plus battery or plug( if it's a replacement) hard wired for new. Replacing equipment in ANY masonry chimney requires a CO detector. It's the smart thing to do even if it not a law in your state.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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