# Water Service Slitting



## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

I was browsing on the Spartan web site and seen their cable water slitter system. This is for replacing water services without trenching. I know some of you have used the trench-less system for waste line and have had great success. Have any of you used the slitter system to pull new water line through the old one? Is there a better system than Spartan for this process? Do you have to use copper tubing or will PEX work?
There are a lot of homes and businesses here with the service line under concrete and/ or asphalt. I am simple looking for a better method instead of trenching.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

There are several on the market, I would like to hear from those that have used them myself. This is one that I had looked at in the past.


http://www.pollardwater.com/pages_product/TFTW09003.asp


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I have used the system, or parts of it. The head was different. We ended up making our own with a reducer and a nipple. we put a bead on with a welder and sharpened it up. 

I pulled one friday with only a nipple we drilled a hole and feed in 1/4 cable with cable clamps. I worked well but the ground was very wet from a long ter leak. Beats the hell out of cutting the driveway. 

The make a head called the wedge that works well.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Can it split metallic pipe?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

DO, what is the longest you have pulled?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> Can it split metallic pipe?


The Pollard said split copper and PE, and pull out galvi.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> I have used the system, or parts of it. The head was different. We ended up making our own with a reducer and a nipple. we put a bead on with a welder and sharpened it up.
> 
> I pulled one friday with only a nipple we drilled a hole and feed in 1/4 cable with cable clamps. I worked well but the ground was very wet from a long ter leak. Beats the hell out of cutting the driveway.
> 
> The make a head called the wedge that works well.


What did you use to pull the cable?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> Can it split metallic pipe?


No, not galvy, it does push it out sometimes. They make a wire pipe gripper kinda like the Chinese handcuff things that slips over the pipe.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

HSI said:


> What did you use to pull the cable?


I have used a backhoe bucket and the hydraulics. I have also tied it to the bumper and drove off. Just make sure the guy driving stops when the wirsbo is through, not that that has happened to me.:laughing:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> DO, what is the longest you have pulled?


I have pulled 80' in AZ, the ground was hard but not rocky. And the line was straight. Just don't stop when you get it going.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I would be cautios using pex underground i have seen issues with it here


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Plbgbiz is a expert at this trenchless stuff, I'm sure he will chime in. 

In the utilities sector, db is commonly used here, to go under roads, driveways, etc. No db'ing work is done in the residential sector here, some db'ing is done in the com. Sector here. I haven't seen any bursting done here though.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> I We ended up making our own with a reducer and a nipple.



Dude, are we brothers or something? Same machine, we had the same truck setup and now this. I've done the same thing with an 1/2" nipple, 1/2" x 1" bell reducer, a 3/4"x 1" bushing behind it to thread in the wirsbo male adapter. I bought the cable from HD.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I've used the heads from Pipe Genie with decent success. Sometimes pulling the cable with a van and on harder runs with the Pipe Genie hydraulics.

Usually the van just isn't strong enough in hard soil or if the line is too long.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

ChrisConnor said:


> Dude, are we brothers or something? Same machine, we had the same truck setup and now this. I've done the same thing with an 1/2" nipple, 1/2" x 1" bell reducer, a 3/4"x 1" bushing behind it to thread in the wirsbo male adapter. I bought the cable from HD.



Totally different I bought the cable at lowes.:thumbup: I was much more comfortable pulling wirsbo than pex. Those crimp rings freak me out.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Decent success pulling a line... I don't know, doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling...


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> Totally different I bought the cable at lowes.:thumbup: I was much more comfortable pulling wirsbo than pex. Those crimp rings freak me out.



Hey, I didn't use crimp pex, but Wirsbo!! or were you talking to that other guy?

It took me longer to round up the parts than it did for me to replace the water service.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

ChrisConnor said:


> Hey, I didn't use crimp pex, but Wirsbo!! or were you talking to that other guy?
> 
> It took me longer to round up the parts than it did for me to replace the water service.


 I was not accusing, I was saying it was me who was using the crap.

I use pex here in OK, so the one in the pics had crimps, I prefer wirsbo but they don't go for it here.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

2 min. ago, you 2 were brothers.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> Decent success pulling a line... I don't know, doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling...


Were you worried about the shape of the pipe? We pull tracer wire with ours, I figure if it comes through without a hitch I'm ok.

I was glad to do it at this house, we cost the guy less than the plumber who he kicked off the job. Also what the cement guy was going to charge to repair his driveway. 

Once it cleared the driveway I considered it a win the rest was gravy.

****

Doh... you need an irony emoticon for slow people like me.:laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> Decent success pulling a line... I don't know, doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling...


Like all trenchless processes, there's definitely a learning curve. I've never had a problem with any pex we've pulled.

This one is from quite a while back and was probably 80' or so. Old pipe was black poly and caused a lot of friction but at the end of the day we were heroes. :thumbup:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> Were you worried about the shape of the pipe? We pull tracer wire with ours, I figure if it comes through without a hitch I'm ok.
> 
> I was glad to do it at this house, we cost the guy less than the plumber who he kicked off the job. Also what the cement guy was going to charge to repair his driveway.
> 
> Once it cleared the driveway I considered it a win the rest was gravy.


I was commenting on PB"s reply, seemed like he was really pumped.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> I was not accusing, I was saying it was me who was using the crap.
> 
> I use pex here in OK, so the one in the pics had crimps, I prefer wirsbo but they don't go for it here.


Really, why don't they like wirsbo??


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> I was commenting on PB"s reply, seemed like he was really pumped.



I wonder if he had a guy so happy it worked he drove around the block trailing the old and new pipe. Or he lost a bumper. I've seen both, they are funny now not so much at the time.:laughing:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

ChrisConnor said:


> Really, why don't they like wirsbo??


The tool is to expensive, no one carries it or fittings..blah blah. It still kills me that the pex stuff spins after being crimped and they call it good. They also stub out with pex and use pex stops.:blink:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> Decent success pulling a line... I don't know, doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling...


You sir are very perceptive. :thumbsup:

Pulling water services can (and have) sometimes be more challenging than sewers. For it to succeed, we have always needed the stars lined up, the fish biting, the wind at our back, and a full moon. Just like any trenchless job, it is all in the planning.

They are getting much more predictable. If they were easy, I suppose everyone would do it.:laughing:


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Our soil is sand, and may allow for more movement in the pipe, but I have come across some instances of holes similar to to leaks in the blue service line.(not many yet)

I prefer pvc with as few bends as possible.

However pulling a new water service through an old without special equipment is pretty cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not trying to derail thread or start an anti pex argument. I use crimp pex for my water distribution systems.Just not the main service


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> Really, why don't they like wirsbo??


For service it's a pain. You would have to carry a full supply of Wirsbo fittings along with a full supply of Pex fittings. You can use Pex for repairs in a Wirsbo system but you can't use Wirsbo on Pex pipe.

If I were doing new construction, I'd use Wirsbo because it seems to be a more stable system and the fittings have a larger ID.


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