# Jetter and Camera purchase advice needed



## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Thank you in advance for any help or advice offered. 

There are a couple of threads that discuss these issues, but I am not seeing answer to what are my specific questions. 

The time has come where we are looking to add on a camera and jetter to the business. Money and opportunity left on the table are undeniable. It is no longer in our companies best interest to let competition come in and do work we cannot. 

What is needed is advice on which type of set up to purchase for our area. All advice is appreciated, but not all advice is applicable or helpful if regional differences factor in, so let me lay out some considerations that may alter advice offered. 

1. Around here many houses are on full basements. Lines are deep, and exterior cleanouts are not as common as they should be. 

2. Clay pipe is common. Many times the drain also has some elbows which get tricky with a drain machine. 

3. Roots are the dominate issue with drains, besides the wipes and tampons getting caught. 

4. A budget of let's say 15,000.00 is possible, unless the bank says no. :laughing:


5. Ridgid is the brand of choice for drain machines. 

6. Bulk of drain cleaning is mostly residential, but with a good set up we can start going after more commercial accounts, which would be awesome. :thumbup: 

What I am hoping to do is to find the best set up to get us going and keep us competitive until the time comes we can afford to add more expensive equipment and own the local market. 

Again, thank you in advance.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

camera ridgid mini and D65S. Monitor CS6.

Jetter.....look up my threads on what I do with a small jetter(13 hp) and come back with specific questions.

If possible for you to wait to Feb....pumper show going on and lots of deals to be had. I'd buy from AJ Coleman. Ask for kirk and tell him ben from cali sent you.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> camera ridgid mini and D65S. Monitor CS6.
> 
> Jetter.....look up my threads on what I do with a small jetter(13 hp) and come back with specific questions.
> 
> If possible for you to wait to Feb....pumper show going on and lots of deals to be had. I'd buy from AJ Coleman. Ask for kirk and tell him ben from cali sent you.




Will look for those threads. 

I wont be making any purchases until the bank agrees and there is a little better weather. Don't want to jump into this equipment when its still freezing weather. 

Thank you.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

I just bought the mini seesnake, and a jetter from JNW.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

stecar said:


> I just bought the mini seesnake, and a jetter from JNW.


Which jetter and what do you plan to use it on?


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Brute, 4" residential and some light commercial if i get called for it. I dont have the jetter yet, so cant say how good it is.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

stecar said:


> Brute, 4" residential and some light commercial if i get called for it. I dont have the jetter yet, so cant say how good it is.


That is one I was looking at. Primarily I will be using it on 4", but will have occasional 6". 

What I was looking for is something that is mobile because of limited accessibility of the lines. Not enough exterior cleanouts to invest In a trailer jetter unless there is a practical was to use it inside of a house with a basement. 

Will keep up my searching for answers in old threads.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

The Brute is the same core machine as my Eagle 200.

Brute is a good name for it.


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## philoplumb (Nov 25, 2013)

The more jobs we're subbing out to others, the more I'm getting itchy to do the same.(buy a camera/locator. can't get into jetting yet)
I will follow this thread with great interest.
I know my boss isn't, and maybe never will be, ready to jump. I may just jump in and start with a camera/locator. Might as well make the $ he's willing to pay the sub. Probably stand a better chance at selling the job on sight rather than on the additional charge follow-up call. Thanks to all of you for your experience and advice.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Just put in final order for the brute. It is being shipped soon. Got the warthog with it.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I know I'm all wrong on this because I'm just an employee and my "Deep Pockets" boss lays out the money for the equipment...:whistling2:

But I find it amusing to see the tendency to go small on jetting equipment to save money...

A few years back I spoke with Song Dog extensively about a jetter purchase he was planning. I advised him to take the US Jetting "Better Jetter" class and to buy a 4018...

He partially accepted the advice and took the "Better Jetter" class then purchased a 4010 trailer unit... Nice little rig! He went to work with it right away and did very well with it... It also opened his eyes...

About 1 month later he traded it in on a 4018 trailer unit and then pretty much disappeared from the forums... Too busy to be here any longer...

Last year on DCF he announced the 4018 trailer unit was for sale and he was buying a box truck with a platform mount 4018 inside....

Simply put there isn't anything he wants to do any more than jet...
He quickly realized that the larger machine opened the doors to bigger jobs, more jobs, and allowed him to work faster and more effectively than he could with a small machine...

The bigger machine allows me to do a job in about a little more than an hour that a smaller machine would work at for 3 hours or more...

Can you charge $1000 min/2 hours to show up with a pressure washer?


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Budgets and spending limits are a pain in the ass, but are a good way to force thought out decisions instead of going belly up with too much debt.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Budgets and spending limits are a pain in the ass, but are a good way to force thought out decisions instead of going belly up with too much debt.


They are also good at limiting your income potential by not going all in when you should as long as the work load is there...


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Redwood said:


> I know I'm all wrong on this because I'm just an employee and my "Deep Pockets" boss lays out the money for the equipment...:whistling2: But I find it amusing to see the tendency to go small on jetting equipment to save money... A few years back I spoke with Song Dog extensively about a jetter purchase he was planning. I advised him to take the US Jetting "Better Jetter" class and to buy a 4018... He partially accepted the advice and took the "Better Jetter" class then purchased a 4010 trailer unit... Nice little rig! He went to work with it right away and did very well with it... It also opened his eyes... About 1 month later he traded it in on a 4018 trailer unit and then pretty much disappeared from the forums... Too busy to be here any longer... Last year on DCF he announced the 4018 trailer unit was for sale and he was buying a box truck with a platform mount 4018 inside.... Simply put there isn't anything he wants to do any more than jet... He quickly realized that the larger machine opened the doors to bigger jobs, more jobs, and allowed him to work faster and more effectively than he could with a small machine... The bigger machine allows me to do a job in about a little more than an hour that a smaller machine would work at for 3 hours or more... Can you charge $1000 min/2 hours to show up with a pressure washer?


I get calls pretty frequently that after explaining to the customer how jetting could help with their repeated issues they tell me "so and so has already jetted our sewer and it didn't help" after convincing them to let me try and upon showing up their jaws hit the floor when they see a powerful trailer jet. I've had a guy say once "the last guys set up was smaller than the water tank alone on yours"


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Here's another true story about jetters. Happened about 4 years ago if I recall. Guy on the forums bought a spartan jetter, can't remember which one but it doesn't matter. About 8 months later he broke his leg in a non work related activity. Can't work for about a month, ends up hiring an employee which completely changes his overhead. 4 months after that, he goes outta business. 

I drive by mr rooter here on the highway and they have 2 jetters and I see them parked there constantly....not making any money. To have the biggest baddest machine doesn't mean squat if you don't have the customers for it and don't know how to use it.

I ask myself "have you ever been on a drain call that you couldn't do in a timely fashion because of the equipment OR have I ever been unable to provide service because I was stuck on a job because of my equipment" Answer is no to both so I stay with getting great results with smaller cheaper equipment.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> Here's another true story about jetters. Happened about 4 years ago if I recall. Guy on the forums bought a spartan jetter, can't remember which one but it doesn't matter. About 8 months later he broke his leg in a non work related activity. Can't work for about a month, ends up hiring an employee which completely changes his overhead. 4 months after that, he goes outta business.
> 
> I drive by mr rooter here on the highway and they have 2 jetters and I see them parked there constantly....not making any money. To have the biggest baddest machine doesn't mean squat if you don't have the customers for it and don't know how to use it.
> 
> I ask myself "have you ever been on a drain call that you couldn't do in a timely fashion because of the equipment OR have I ever been unable to provide service because I was stuck on a job because of my equipment" Answer is no to both so I stay with getting great results with smaller cheaper equipment.


Seeing the Market Saturation in your area & Cali Prices your choice is right for you...

For us it would be a matter of more machines and more people if we started operating less effectively, with is also an overhead increase. Our machines are scheduled 7AM-midnight m-f, 7AM-4PM sat, and on call at other times. along with some overnight scheduled pm work...

In Song Dogs case he rapidly saw that he had underestimated the work potential in his area and quickly adjusted to it with the larger machine...


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Whats wrong with starting from scratch with cart? Especially for resdiential.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

The more powerful your Jetter the faster you can complete jobs. It really is that simple


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Unclog1776 said:


> The more powerful your Jetter the faster you can complete jobs. It really is that simple


When it comes to being faster I thought it was all about the right nozzle and knowing how to use it.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Yup....it's all about the nozzle. Heck I'd compare my 4gpm jetter with a root ranger to a 10 gpm jetter with a warthog any day of the week in regards to root cutting ability in 3"-6" pipe. See on youtube how fast a warthog cuts through a 2x4 vs a turbo nozzle. No comparison in time. 











For most residential stuff, the 4018 jetters are overkill. Those jetters are great and have a definite purpose such as moving grease in restaurant lines but are really over rated in regards to a "must have". 

I think the 13hp-18hp is a great jetter for the following reasons.....

-can and does clean up to 6" with no problem
-low initial investment for a great return. 10 billable hours and my ENTIRE (nozzles and all) jetter set up is paid for. 
-gets the company's name out there as offering jetter services. 
-fits into a service van easily. How easy is it to sell a jetter job when it can be done right then and not have to wait to see when it's available.
.....to talk about that above point further.....let's say a company has 6 service vans and one trailer jetter at a cost of 20-50k. That jetter, no matter how fast, is tied up when on a job or doing a PM cycle....heck a tire blows on the trailer and it's done....can't be 2 places at once. So let's flip the scenario. 6 service vans and every van has there own 13hp-18hp jetter set up at a cost of 2k each for a grand total invested of 12k. A whole lot easier to pay off 12k vs 20-50k. But what about the once in awhile big job that needs all that water?

Connect the jetters together and combine the flow so now it could even compete with the 4018 jetters. Sure it'll be slower on the setup but for the blue moon job it'll suffice with little invested. I try to plan for the "98% of the time" situations....not the other way around. 

To say that it's a pressure washer is exactly right. ALL jetters are pressure washers. Heck the 4018 are being used....and have been used for pressure washing rotary floor cleaners.....does that take away from it any less? It's not the tool but operator. Otherwise we'd all be replaced since home depot and lowes sells most plumbing tools that we all use in one capacity or another. 

Keep in mind I'm not knocking the big jetters, I'm simply stating what works for me.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Unclog1776 said:


> The more powerful your Jetter the faster you can complete jobs. It really is that simple





sierra2000 said:


> When it comes to being faster I thought it was all about the right nozzle and knowing how to use it.


Okay...
The other day we descaled a 6' cast iron line from downstream, outside of an industrial plant 600' into the building...

Let me know how you are making out with that one... :laughing:

You lost that bid when you told them they had to have a machine the was parked on top of a cleanout in the building moved because you can't pull the hose that far...

The ticket on that job was over $3k...

The right nozzle on that job was an 1/2" ENZ Chain Flail Nozzle.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Clearly we plumbers/drain cleaners have gone down the route of arguing again. :laughing:

It is obvious and clear that each person and each company has their own ideas of what works and what doesn't work for them. As the OP I can speak to what the original intent of this thread was, and can say that some questions have been answered for what is applicable for us. 


___________________________________________________________________
_1. Around here many houses are on full basements. Lines are deep, and exterior cleanouts are not as common as they should be. _

Not clearly answered, but many have offered opinions on what works for them. 

_2. Clay pipe is common. Many times the drain also has some elbows which get tricky with a drain machine. _

Not sure if material factors in much when it comes to jetting, but doesn't seem to be important. 

_3. Roots are the dominate issue with drains, besides the wipes and tampons getting caught. _

Sounds like the nozzle makes more the difference than the actual equipment, unless of course it is undersized. Thank you for the information. Seems like a Warthog is more preferred. 

_4. A budget of let's say 15,000.00 is possible, unless the bank says no. 
_
Has been understood by some and then compeletely ignored by others. Fact is the bank is the final say on how much can be borrowed. This wasn't a guess, this is in fact a spending limit based on what the company has to put in and what they bank will most likely approve based on income to debt ratio. 


_5. Ridgid is the brand of choice for drain machines. _

More opinion than anything. Sounds like there are a few top brands. 

_6. Bulk of drain cleaning is mostly residential, but with a good set up we can start going after more commercial accounts, which would be awesome._

Not fully addressed. I know one of our biggest local competitors struggles using a trailer jetter because of basements and accessibility. Can't say I know of anyone with a cart jetter bigger than the Ridgid 1750. 

Jetting around here is not well addressed which is why we are wanting to make the move and be the first to offer the best options. 

Let me add one more thing to the mix since some seem to think their prices are applicable to everywhere in the country.

7. The cost for the service: The biggest and best known franchise for drain cleaning service charges $500.00 for 2 hours, with drive time added on. Typical invoice around here for a jetting is 550.00 - 750.00


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Okay... The other day we descaled a 6' cast iron line from downstream, outside of an industrial plant 600' into the building... Let me know how you are making out with that one... :laughing: You lost that bid when you told them they had to have a machine the was parked on top of a cleanout in the building moved because you can't pull the hose that far... The ticket on that job was over $3k... The right nozzle on that job was an 1/2" ENZ Chain Flail Nozzle.


 I am strictly residential. My 9 gpm 4000 psi does all I need it to do. I don't intend on going after commercial or industrial work ever and for that reason the 4018 is overkill for residential. My tickets are $980+


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Clearly we plumbers/drain cleaners have gone down the route of arguing again. :laughing: It is obvious and clear that each person and each company has their own ideas of what works and what doesn't work for them. As the OP I can speak to what the original intent of this thread was, and can say that some questions have been answered for what is applicable for us. ___________________________________________________________________ 1. Around here many houses are on full basements. Lines are deep, and exterior cleanouts are not as common as they should be. Not clearly answered, but many have offered opinions on what works for them. 2. Clay pipe is common. Many times the drain also has some elbows which get tricky with a drain machine. Not sure if material factors in much when it comes to jetting, but doesn't seem to be important. 3. Roots are the dominate issue with drains, besides the wipes and tampons getting caught. Sounds like the nozzle makes more the difference than the actual equipment, unless of course it is undersized. Thank you for the information. Seems like a Warthog is more preferred. 4. A budget of let's say 15,000.00 is possible, unless the bank says no. Has been understood by some and then compeletely ignored by others. Fact is the bank is the final say on how much can be borrowed. This wasn't a guess, this is in fact a spending limit based on what the company has to put in and what they bank will most likely approve based on income to debt ratio. 5. Ridgid is the brand of choice for drain machines. More opinion than anything. Sounds like there are a few top brands. 6. Bulk of drain cleaning is mostly residential, but with a good set up we can start going after more commercial accounts, which would be awesome. Not fully addressed. I know one of our biggest local competitors struggles using a trailer jetter because of basements and accessibility. Can't say I know of anyone with a cart jetter bigger than the Ridgid 1750. Jetting around here is not well addressed which is why we are wanting to make the move and be the first to offer the best options. Let me add one more thing to the mix since some seem to think their prices are applicable to everywhere in the country. 7. The cost for the service: The biggest and best known franchise for drain cleaning service charges $500.00 for 2 hours, with drive time added on. Typical invoice around here for a jetting is 550.00 - 750.00


 If you're not sure what market you'll go after commercial or residential, or may jump between both, I think a 4000 psi 12 gpm or 3000 psi 12 gpm is where you want to be. You can go trailer, skid or propane with it. Price should be right around your budget. 
http://www.spartantool.com/model-740-hydro-jetter-products-3699.php?page_id=176 
http://www.spartantool.com/model-758-hydro-jetter-products-11.php?page_id=176 
If you want a big cart for residential this is what I use. 
http://www.jettersnorthwest.com/cart-jetters/brute-series/


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> If you're not sure what market you'll go after commercial or residential, or may jump between both, I think a 4000 psi 12 gpm or 3000 psi 12 gpm is where you want to be. You can go trailer, skid or propane with it. Price should be right around your budget.
> http://www.spartantool.com/model-740-hydro-jetter-products-3699.php?page_id=176
> http://www.spartantool.com/model-758-hydro-jetter-products-11.php?page_id=176
> If you want a big cart for residential this is what I use.
> http://www.jettersnorthwest.com/cart-jetters/brute-series/


The primary workload is residential right now, but want to grow in the commercial market and was hoping to buy one machine for now that will do both until enough market is captured to justify purchasing more equipment. 

There has been some discussion with Northwest about what machine would do as needed and they suggested the Brute with some additional controls to help with the basement situation. 

As a guy who does jetting what would you recommend for this situation, and what camera?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

With a year in on our Eagle 200 (trailer mounted Brute w/200gal tank) I would still pick the same machine. It has been the right size for us.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> The primary workload is residential right now, but want to grow in the commercial market and was hoping to buy one machine for now that will do both until enough market is captured to justify purchasing more equipment. There has been some discussion with Northwest about what machine would do as needed and they suggested the Brute with some additional controls to help with the basement situation. As a guy who does jetting what would you recommend for this situation, and what camera?


 I'm by far no expert on jetting practices but IMHO if you want a machine that can do both you should consider the spartan 758. The 12 gpm would not be overkill for residential and should be sufficient for commercial grease work. Ideally I'd like to have the extra 1000 psi but the price also jumps about $5K for it.
Maybe someone with experience can jump in about the Eagle 300 from Jetters Northwest. I thought I read somewhere that you can run one of the engines for residential at 9 gpm and run both engines for commercial at 18 gpm with 4000 psi.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*it's a business*

1) cleanouts in basements. i have 4 32 gal plastic trash cans. i have a sump pump. if i fill a trash can i pump it to another can or outside depends. on a slab house i pull a stool. sometimes on a basement. depends on finish or how stubborn the cleanout plug is. 

2)a lot of vitreous here. i seem to get through. idk. maybe i'm just stubborn. yes that's it. i bump start with a slight kink in the end of cable when appear to stopped. 

3)roots here, also. without the roots or low spots i've not had a wipes/tampons blockage. knock on wood.

4)see you at the bottom. (7)

5)ridgid k-60 180' c-10 and 75' c-8. work's for me. you will have figure out that yourself. 

6)i'm 100% residential. commercial is is the pits here. slow pay or worse. the res are tickled to have working drains. what can i say. the comms want to play let's make a deal. your story maybe different. i't will come to you. 

7)there is a difference between gross and net. the number are not important! can you make any money with it??? that is the whole deal. period. just because you can borrow 15k doesn't mean you have to or should. if i remember right gear made his. i'l be corrected if wrong, i'm sure. he paid for his in 10 jobs. i say i paid for mine 1, but really 2 if i paid myself. this should make it's payments at the bank plus a profit for the hoosier plumber per year.

how many jobs did you really miss in the last year? not how many price checks. i don't buy any tools that i cannot make money with. if i got gear right buy the best equipment that you can use regularly at the best price. i turn jobs down occasionally, i hate it. but if i can't make money, so be it. my k-60 was 3 jobs or 5 if took pay. i bought it out of season. didn't use it for months. then in 1 week it was paid for. i don't get many root jobs spring or summer. late fall and winter, mostly.

i use my jetts to do small drains. similar to ace sewer on ridgidforum. i have a small gas job for frozen drains if my electric will not cut it. bought it used. 

i live in fulton, in about 2/3 the way from indy to south bend then about 5 miles west of of 31. i keep my jetts in the house. put down thick plastic carpet runners. i'm 69 and 140lbs hence a k-60. also small jetts.

read gears stuff. what others charge is immaterial you need to figure out your real cost to own, all the overhead from the jetter. all. how many hours to cover. figure expenses long and revenue short. what the rest of us do is also immaterial. it's what your market will take. if you saved money for a year could you pay cash? are you working full time? if so you will loose some of your present gross. 

when i ask money questions i'm asking you to sit down and make a very detailed budget. you need to know not us. 

i wish you well. peaceup. raz


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

We used a rigid camera and a Trojan jetter


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

I have two jetters

The small one is a JNW Brute propane powered 8.5gpm @ 3600psi @ (this machine in a gas version is 9gpm @ 4000psi)

The big one is a Harben trailer jetter 16gpm @ 4000psi.


I can tell you this, I use the Brute about 2-3 times more than the Harben


I bought the JNW Brute first. It really opened my eyes to what jetting can do. I was amazed by the machine, and also happy I had another service to offer my customers. After having my Brute for 6 months, I was ready to aggressively go after some big commercial accounts, for those accounts I needed something bigger. That's when I bought the Harben. On those accounts, I actually use both machines about an equal amount of time. Residential I almost always use the brute. The brute with a remote reel is a very nice setup for residential jobs. 

I run my brute in an enclosed trailer with a 65 gallon tank and a fill reel hooked up to the tank. With that setup on a residential job, I am never waiting on water.....ever. I jet with my camera in the line, I position the head carefully and pull the camera back and run the jetter for a couple min, then check my work and then move back to the next section. 

Having a jetter is a huge upgrade to your arsenal. I have gone to many jobs where someone couldn't clear a line, or they were told it had to be dug up since the last company couldn't get their camera out very far. We use the jetter to pull the camera head out to the city main all the time. 

Here is our trailer setup. It works out very nice. We are about 90% residential service. We run normal cargo vans for our daily calls, and when we get a sewer we just hook up to our drain cleaning trailer and go. In the trailer we keep all our machines. A Spartan 2001, Spartan 300, Spartan 100, Brute Jetter with remote reels (3/8"x200' and 1/4" stainless trap hose x 100') , Ridgid 200' see snake, Ridgid 100' micro, Locator, Generator and extra 50' sections for our drum machines. No matter what we come up against, we usually have what we need. 

I'm not sure how far you are from Chicago, but I am about 1 hour west of Chicago, you are more than welcome to come out and check out the Brute and the trailer setup. I'd be happy to give you a demo and spend some time with you discussing jetters.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Hey Andersen. I might pm you when I get mine. Should be here next week. I am looking for a trailer as well, what size is yours? Where did get your spare water tank?


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