# Straight time and how it saves your employer



## MindLost (May 25, 2013)

I am curious if a business owner could explain exactly how much money an employer saves by paying you straight time as opposed to time and half over time. Besides the obvious savings in payroll, what other factors come into play from a business perspective?

I would think that they would save in taxes, workmans comp, at the same time completely F you out of SS pay in, along with unemployment. 

How much of a scumbag is a boss that doesn't pay time and half?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Are you talking about overtime not being offered when it clearly is there, or you are working more than 40+ hours a week or more than 8hrs a day (depending on state law)?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Look into your state labor laws, and contact the labor board if your employer is breaking your state's law.


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## MindLost (May 25, 2013)

I am referring to working more than 40 hours a week, but instead of getting paid over time I get paid my regular hourly wage. Example - My time card shows that I worked 60 hours, but my paycheck shows that I only worked 48 hours.

I am full aware that I could file with the labor board, but I am just curious how much money he is actually saving by paying straight time. I mean I know that for every hour that I am working past 40 that I am literally paying him my over time, but I am more curious how not paying me over time saves him in other ways that only a business owner would know.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm lost on that math! 

I'd contact the labor board, or whatever it's called where you are.

I charge customers extra for nights/weekends/holidays, no reason an employee shouldn't have the same compensation.


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## MindLost (May 25, 2013)

Ok...

Say I make 30 dollars an hour. I have 60 hours worked in 1 week. I would be sitting at 900 dollars in over time pay. My time card would show 60 hours.

Now when I get my pay check it shows 53.33 hours. Essentially my over time hours are being multiplied by my current hourly wage, and then divided by my OT hourly wage, which results in me not receiving my OT. 

(hours worked past 40 * Hourly wage) / (Hourly wage * .5 + Hourly wage)

My thread is only asking in what other ways is not paying overtime saving the company, and also as a contractor how much of a scumbag is a boss that does not pay overtime.

Basically in how many ways and I being f'd. How much of an ATM machine am I to my employer? 

I am having a really hard time figuring out how to explain this so that my question is concise, but I do not have a very large vocabulary...


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

If you work 60 hours in a pay period And are paid weekly it would show as: 
40 hours @ $30per hour (straight time)
20 hours @ $45per hour (time and a half)

= $2100 before tax

Showing 53.5 hours on straight time makes no since for a weekly pay period 

Unless your pay period is over two weeks and you worked a total of 60hours over the 14 days


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

MindLost said:


> Ok...
> 
> Say I make 30 dollars an hour. I have 60 hours worked in 1 week. I would be sitting at 900 dollars in over time pay. My time card would show 60 hours.
> 
> ...



If what you say is true, collect your evidence spanning as far back as you can and burn your current employer. You don't like plumbing, honestly my passion is drain cleaning over plumbing, but it's part of my current situation. 

Think about it this way. Your employer pays you based on your skill and your time. Both are worth $. When one outweighs the other more compensation is due.

I'm NOT a union minded person by any means, but I've worked for bad employers that took advantage of my skill set and time before.


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## MindLost (May 25, 2013)

Ok not sure if you're trolling me, or what here man.... 

7 day work week you work 60 hours. Seven calendar days. Normal stuff, 1 week, 1 full work week. Normal pay period. 60 hours....

At 30 dollars an hour

40 hours at $30.00 dollars an hour equals (=) $1200.00 
20 hours at $45.00 dollars an hour equals (=) $900.00 <--- The overtime pay. Time and a half. Anything past 40, etc....
Check total with regular hours plus (+) overtime hours would equal (=) $2100.00

OK now here is where it gets tricky......

If you take my 20 hours of overtime. Multiply 20 hours of over time BY $30.00 dollars an hour you get $600.00 dollars..

You then take the $600.00 dollars, and divide it by $45.00 

( $30.00 dollars times (X)(*) .5 = 15 <---- $15.00 dollars. Now add that $15.00 dollars which is half of my regular wage to my regular wage makes it $45.00 dollars an hour. I.E - $45.00 is time and a half if you're paid $30.00 dollars an hour)

It equals (=) 13.333333333333333 <----- That is my 20 hours of over time, converted into straight pay, but looks as if I am being paid overtime, but in fact I am being paid straight time.

Now my 60 hour work week, which we have established / confirmed / reread above ^ has been changed from 60 Hours to 53.33 Hours....

My paycheck for a 60 hour week, 60 hours on my time card, is actually 53.33 hours on my pay check stub. Essentially my over time has been converted to straight time, BUT it looks as if I was paid overtime on my pay check stub...


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## MindLost (May 25, 2013)

OpenSights said:


> If what you say is true, collect your evidence spanning as far back as you can and burn your current employer. You don't like plumbing, honestly my passion is drain cleaning over plumbing, but it's part of my current situation.
> 
> Think about it this way. Your employer pays you based on your skill and your time. Both are worth $. When one outweighs the other more compensation is due.
> 
> I'm NOT a union minded person by any means, but I've worked for bad employers that took advantage of my skill set and time before.


Nah man I agreed to it years ago. I wouldn't burn someone after we made a gentlemens agreement. I only stay where I am at because I feel that we do much better work than any other company that I have ever seen, and I have 0 issues telling hack plumbing companies to eat shlit, to the bosses face as I hand him his truck keys and tell him he can bust up floors because his guys cant read a tape...... I am a plumber, I am not a concrete worker. 

I just wanted to know in what other ways I am saving the company money by not being paid overtime... There has to be more savings to the company than just $15.00 dollars an hour...


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

MindLost said:


> I am curious if a business owner could explain exactly how much money an employer saves by paying you straight time as opposed to time and half over time. Besides the obvious savings in payroll, what other factors come into play from a business perspective?
> 
> I would think that they would save in taxes, workmans comp, at the same time completely F you out of SS pay in, along with unemployment.
> 
> How much of a scumbag is a boss that doesn't pay time and half?



OpenSights isn't trolling you.

I'm not a business owner, but common sense would tell me that your boss is making more than the $300/week of extra overtime pay than just just the $300 extra you should be getting. I'm using that number based on the difference in what you get on your check as "overtime" of $600 and what you should get in overtime of $900. Heck, if he takes that $300/week and just lets it sit in a savings account, it adds up ... plus, that's $ you earned that should have been at least earning YOU minimum interest.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Bottom line, this is illegal. If you want to stick around because of his high quality work and a gentleman's agreement, go ahead. Leave out the 1.5 times normal pay for overtime. He is getting 6.7 hours totally free by working you 60 and paying for 53.3. I understand being job scared, but this guy is saving lots of money on your back.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Your getting taken advantage of.

These pay laws vary State by State. He is violating State law (as you would if you violated plumbing code in some States).

He can question your hours but not constantly change them. Most States would say anything over a 40 hour work week 'must" be overtime. I would accept comp time for time & a half. Your States definition of wage & overtime (above 40 or maybe 80 for two weeks, possibly anything over 8 per day). Unless you are are a "salaried" employee. If so all bets are off. Above you allowable pay period time & a half period......................

Different story if this is not often, if this happens all the time not good. Your being taken advantage of as well as others in our trade.


No friggin tricky to it "period". Allowed time $30.00 over allowed time $45.00 per hour add the total done.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Long ago I got suckered into working for a solar company for
a "salary" The salary sounded pretty good until we started humping and doing about 60 -70 hours a week to keep up with a project....

I was on "salary" so it did not matter how many hours we worked it still was the same pay......


You are basically on something not quite as bad as a salary based pay check,

I guess you are doing "straight time" and have agreed to it long ago....

Its not good, its not bad....it just depends on what other benefits the guy is giving to you.... like health insurance at a steep discount or free??? 
A take home truck?? 
Does he take you to a stripper bar every so often on Fridays???? 

These little benefits can add up....


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Nothing "tricky" about it. You're getting fugged.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Hes probably deducting your lunch breaks.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> Long ago I got suckered into working for a solar company for
> a "salary" The salary sounded pretty good until we started humping and doing about 60 -70 hours a week to keep up with a project....
> 
> I was on "salary" so it did not matter how many hours we worked it still was the same pay......
> ...


I'm certain free health insurance isn't included. Take home truck? Guy could get a 2017 off the lot, Denali, lariat, etc. I will take it on the check.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

$300 weekly, $1200 monthly, $14400 annually, or 52 weeks by $300=$15600. Sounds like a pretty good deal. Do you have any brothers?


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## bretttn (Feb 7, 2017)

If you were an employee of ours, I would want you to ask us. Your current explanation is sorta confusing because I'm just going to assume you're 60 he week is as follows- 40 hrs straight 20 hrs overtime. Subtract 1hr lunch 6 days and 45 min Sunday? 60 hrs minus 6.75 hrs (not sure how yours is .70) 53.75 hrs paid as 40 straight and 13.75 hrs time and half. 
I would hope this is the situation but again. Ask! Might be a simple misunderstanding.

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## bretttn (Feb 7, 2017)

bretttn said:


> If you were an employee of ours, I would want you to ask us. Your current explanation is sorta confusing because I'm just going to assume you're 60 he week is as follows- 40 hrs straight 20 hrs overtime. Subtract 1hr lunch 6 days and 45 min Sunday? 60 hrs minus 6.75 hrs (not sure how yours is .70) 53.75 hrs paid as 40 straight and 13.75 hrs time and half.
> I would hope this is the situation but again. Ask! Might be a simple misunderstanding.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Sorry I should have done .3hr as 18 mins on Sunday? Not 45 mins or .75hrs



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## BowmanPlumbing (Aug 6, 2016)

You have your priorities backwards. You should be loyal to yourself and your family first, then your employer, and only if he is compensating you for your time. If his work is that much better than the other guys, then he needs to raise rates so he can pay his employees correctly. You screwed yourself by agreeing to those terms.You can do the math any way you like, and it still = you being screwed.
If you told me that you didn't bust concrete to get to the source of a plumbing repair, you wouldn't have to worry about handing me my truck keys, because they would be taken as soon as you said it. ****, I'm not a cabinet man, but I will open the doors to the compartment under the kitchen sink. Not a drywall man, but will remove it to get to a problem. Pretty sure I know why you aren't working for the competition.


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## MindLost (May 25, 2013)

BowmanPlumbing said:


> You have your priorities backwards. You should be loyal to yourself and your family first, then your employer, and only if he is compensating you for your time. If his work is that much better than the other guys, then he needs to raise rates so he can pay his employees correctly. You screwed yourself by agreeing to those terms.You can do the math any way you like, and it still = you being screwed.
> If you told me that you didn't bust concrete to get to the source of a plumbing repair, you wouldn't have to worry about handing me my truck keys, because they would be taken as soon as you said it. ****, I'm not a cabinet man, but I will open the doors to the compartment under the kitchen sink. Not a drywall man, but will remove it to get to a problem. Pretty sure I know why you aren't working for the competition.


If I had to bust concrete to get to the source of a plumbing repair I am very sure that I could get the job (from start to finish) done faster than you or any one on your crew. It would look better, and if this was a repair job the home owners would say that I am the most polite, well spoken, and professional plumber that they have ever encountered.

When I said that I do not bust concrete for a living. I mean exactly that. I do not move drains that do not hit walls unless by some random chance I forgot how to read my tape measure on the ground phase. If the framers are off, then the framers can either furr their wall out,move their wall, OR the builder can pay me time and material to move the drain.

I do not use vinyl back insulation to wrap drains on a ground job, I put stool flanges on during the ground job phase, I put shower flanges on the ground job phase (unless its a sunken floor), I manifold on the ground job phase, and I do not color code my pex.. Why? BECAUSE I KNOW WTF I AM DOING... I do not miss walls. How many plumbing companies can say this? Not very many, trust me. 

I was curious about the money side, then I run into nothing but crapper hax running their mouths. I stay where I stay because I do not like dealing with terrible plumbers, terrible plumbing companies, and ultimately terrible builders.

You know I have worked for other companies, and from what I have seen I am either dealing with lazy coworkers, white trash coworkers, people threatened as soon as they see me work, they see how many calls I can get done a day, etc. It's the same thing every time. The losers, the drugs, the people with 5 kids having their checks garnished, the BS. This is exactly why I hate the plumbing field. Crap trucks, nice trucks but crap employees who hot rod the trucks.....

I could rant all day long, but in my decade + of experience construction sucks....


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## indyjim (Apr 29, 2017)

Lol. I piped a 60,000 sq foot expansion for a convalescent center. That's 52 bathrooms, full kitchen, and multiple laundry rooms, lab rooms, medical rooms, etc. not one wall was missed. I was also paid my UA wage, benefits, overtime, and double time. 
There's a lot of us that can read a tape and a print. 


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

MindLost said:


> If I had to bust concrete to get to the source of a plumbing repair I am very sure that I could get the job (from start to finish) done faster than you or any one on your crew. It would look better, and if this was a repair job the home owners would say that I am the most polite, well spoken, and professional plumber that they have ever encountered.
> 
> When I said that I do not bust concrete for a living. I mean exactly that. I do not move drains that do not hit walls unless by some random chance I forgot how to read my tape measure on the ground phase. If the framers are off, then the framers can either furr their wall out,move their wall, OR the builder can pay me time and material to move the drain.
> 
> ...


Hey Madonna, you hate plumbing, get ****ed by your, in your own words, scumbag employer, yet you keep doing what you hate because you're perfect doing what you hate for a "scumbag" you hate.

Judging by your math, you're a masocist in the situation that suits you perfectly. 

Your drama is honestly not the norm I see here on this forum.


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## bretttn (Feb 7, 2017)

Yikes! What has this become? Sad sad sad....

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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MindLost said:


> If I had to bust concrete to get to the source of a plumbing repair I am very sure that I could get the job (from start to finish) done faster than you or any one on your crew. It would look better, and if this was a repair job the home owners would say that I am the most polite, well spoken, and professional plumber that they have ever encountered.
> 
> When I said that I do not bust concrete for a living. I mean exactly that. I do not move drains that do not hit walls unless by some random chance I forgot how to read my tape measure on the ground phase. If the framers are off, then the framers can either furr their wall out,move their wall, OR the builder can pay me time and material to move the drain.
> 
> ...




That is a good rant...well said.....you sound a lot like me.... you and I have both experienced the same things just in different decades..:yes:....

I love working with white trash co-workers .... that hits the nail right on the head how bad it can sometimes suck.. 
Just having to breathe the same air as them on a long drive to the job site makes me feel like I am getting dumber by the minute. Then you have to listen to all of their LOSER dramas and its like you could write a good country song..... :laughing:


most of the people on this forum are pretty harsh and its not , or should not be taken personal...

If you like where you work, then I would just do like Mr Trump is doing with NAFTA and our wonderful partners in that mess.... he is going to re-negotiate for a better deal... 

There is nothing to be ashamed of asking for a raise or a change to the rules of the game you both are playing.. its not a lifetime contract....

good luck....


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

The only perfect working dynamic would be if your running your own company setting the rules.

The problems you mention are part of working with others. Hopefully you get some good ones.

With 36 years in the field I've run the gambit. Deciding to either ask to be treated correctly can be scary. Fear of being fired, etc. Some people will take a lot of abuse just for job security. The older you get the more this may play into a decision to stay and put up with it or ask for fair treatment and be ready to leave if they won't go along.

For whatever excuse you want to rant on, it is just that an excuse. Sit him down and respectfully talk about it. IF your afraid of change take it.

No disrespect intended, but your getting taken.


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## MindLost (May 25, 2013)

I appreciate some of the good replies, but.....

In 3 pages my question was never answered. This deviated from a question which was stated from the Thread Title, the body of the thread, and basically turned into a debate over the closing sentence... I don't understand how it turned into that, or how I had to break down the math for weak minds to understand, but it is what it is at this point....

I would reiterate, but after the keyboard commando rage fest I think I will pass LOL..

Yes I have perks where I am at, I am not going to get into all of that. I had been waiting for an answer to my question, but alas, I guess that was asking too much.

Take it easy guys. Madonna and her masochist medical condition will vacate this forum.


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## indyjim (Apr 29, 2017)

Good luck with yourself. 


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Chuckle. Your question was answered. You don't know how to correctly "pose" the questions, plus this, minus that, add this is all bull.

Simple........
40 hours per work week regular time
above 40 hours in a work week time & a half.
Gentleman's agreement, either put up with it, ask for a raise or leave. If you don't ask or get it your hurting the working man's industry, simple period.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

GAN said:


> The only perfect working dynamic would be if your running your own company setting the rules.
> 
> The problems you mention are part of working with others. Hopefully you get some good ones.
> 
> ...




Working with others? Friend of Bill W?


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## BowmanPlumbing (Aug 6, 2016)

MindLost said:


> If I had to bust concrete to get to the source of a plumbing repair I am very sure that I could get the job (from start to finish) done faster than you or any one on your crew. It would look better, and if this was a repair job the home owners would say that I am the most polite, well spoken, and professional plumber that they have ever encountered.
> 
> When I said that I do not bust concrete for a living. I mean exactly that. I do not move drains that do not hit walls unless by some random chance I forgot how to read my tape measure on the ground phase. If the framers are off, then the framers can either furr their wall out,move their wall, OR the builder can pay me time and material to move the drain.
> 
> ...


Yes, you could rant all day, which will amount to nothing, or , like many of us, you can put it all on the table, and roll the dice by hanging a shingle. You are going to need to get more aggressive about collecting money that is owed to you if you want to be successful though. 
Confidence is a good thing to have in any business, but bad mouthing others, (even if they deserve it) while talking up yourself is not the proper way to exude it. It is the single best way to make others think you are a petty person. (not calling you a petty person) Anything that you assume about doing my customers a better job than me, or my employees is just that. An assumption. The facts go like this: 
You are under the employ of a company that does not respect you , or the labor laws.
I have a successful business, with a repeat customer list that is 5000 strong, my employees are paid well ( and in accordance with labor laws), and I will spend the amount you are sweating over taking my employees to lunch.
You can spend the rest of your life *****ing, or you can get focused on the things that you can actually change. Either way, I wish you the best.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

JohnsonPlumbing said:


> Working with others? Friend of Bill W?


Others as in anyone but yourself as a boss.

Bill W???????


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

MindLost said:


> I appreciate some of the good replies, but.....
> 
> In 3 pages my question was never answered. This deviated from a question which was stated from the Thread Title, the body of the thread, and basically turned into a debate over the closing sentence... I don't understand how it turned into that, or how I had to break down the math for weak minds to understand, but it is what it is at this point....
> 
> ...


To answer your question that everybody is missing is for every dollar that you pay into Social Security, your employer has to match so for every dollar he saves on overtime he also saves on 'YOUR" benefits which could also be a problem if for example you got hurt on the job, in a car accident, or any other reason you might have to go on S.S. Disability,


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

GAN said:


> JohnsonPlumbing said:
> 
> 
> > Working with others? Friend of Bill W?
> ...


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

rwh said:


> GAN said:
> 
> 
> > Others as in anyone but yourself as a boss.
> ...


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## MECH-MAN (Feb 11, 2017)

As I am sure you are aware, you are not being payed overtime. You answered your own question in your first post. Why don't you just bank your overtime hours?


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