# Masters Crap List



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

1 - AAV's
2 - Waterless Urinals
3 - Most Kohler Toilets
4 - Anything that says Glacier Bay on the label
5 - Pedistal Lav's
6 - A certain manufacturers flexi lines
7 - Shark Bites
8 - (this one will get folks riled up) ABS
9 - CPVC gold or other wise
10 - Telescoping tailstocks


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> 1 - AAV's
> 2 - Waterless Urinals
> 3 - Most Kohler Toilets
> 4 - Anything that says Glacier Bay on the label
> ...


 
LOL:laughing: your crap list just put my state out of business.:laughing:


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Putting out a list is fine. Explaining why you feel that way helps convey your message better, to a wider audience.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

probably, but that seems like a lot of work, and I tyope like crap. Feel free to add your own personal fav's to the list.

Maybe a list of favorite things would be good also like Toto toilets.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Water Works faucets
Dornbracht rough in sheets
Phylrich faucet trim
Anything made by Delta faucet
Rohl's technical assistance
Bosch tanless heaters
Lasco whirlpools


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

pro-flo
quest
mobile homes


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> quest
> mobile homes


Thats not a crap list, those two are nightmares!


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> 3 - Most Kohler Toilets


That's all we use and they look pretty but you're right, most of them aren't flushers.

Flex lines in general, pex, and anything from Home Depot are on my list.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Marlin said:


> That's all we use and they look pretty but you're right, most of them aren't flushers.
> 
> Flex lines in general, pex, and anything from Home Depot are on my list.


That's why I said most. The Wellworth and Cimmeron seem to behave just fine, but some of the high end one piece units just will not flush worth a damn.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Whirlpool gas water heaters.
I will not install them period! I will replace them!


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

* SharkBite*
* Watts Flood Safe*
* Tubular traps (dollhouse traps, my code requires sched 40)*
* IKEA*
* Interior decorators*
* Glacier Bay*
* Pegasus *
* Every cheesey gimmick I see at suppliers counters while I wait for my order.*


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> * Tubular traps (dollhouse traps, my code requires sched 40)*


You don't install many of these then do you?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Ebay bought Vessel Sinks

Pedestal sink Replacements < doing one I started friday and coming back to finish tomorrow 


Sewage Ejector Pump Replacements


Drain calls on recent DIY bathroom remodels

Any service call where the customer called the damn plumber, get there and a ton of  needs to be moved to get to the area. Something as simple as the crap on top of the toilet tank.......WTF is wrong with you people? Same goes for the junk under sinks...MOVE IT! before I get here. 

I usually tell them I'm heading to the truck for a twinkie and I'll be back in when its done. 

Only once have I had a complaint on that sentiment and I said to the lady verbatim, "Oh hey, come here and take a look out your front door"


"What?"


My response,

"Do you see a plumbing truck in your driveway or a moving truck?" :no:


Attitude that negates attitude. I don't work for that customer anymore. :thumbup:


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

5 pounds of blue glue on pressure fittings under the kitchen sink.

Delta kitchen faucets


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You don't install many of these then do you?


*Sure, but it'd have to be a 1-1/2" chrome trap though.*


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Sure, but it'd have to be a 1-1/2" chrome trap though.*


What's wrong with the polished nickel trap in the pic?


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> What's wrong with the polished nickel trap in the pic?


Flat on the bottom? just a guess, if I get it right can I be your apprentice tomorow at the models house?


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Proud Plumber said:


> Flat on the bottom? just a guess, if I get it right can I be your apprentice tomorow at the models house?


It's a bottle trap, I'll find a pic of one for you.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Proud Plumber said:


> Flat on the bottom? just a guess, if I get it right can I be your apprentice tomorow at the models house?


:laughing::thumbup:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

You can view a bottle trap here.

How many guys does it take to fix a lav faucet?


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You can view a bottle trap here.
> 
> How many guys does it take to fix a lav faucet?


How many can we fit in your truck?


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Question? Is a bottle trap similar to a drum trap? Drums are illegal here. Hence I have never seen one.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You can view a bottle trap here.
> 
> How many guys does it take to fix a lav faucet?


Depends. Will flesh be a showing?:whistling2:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Proud Plumber said:


> Question? Is a bottle trap similar to a drum trap? Drums are illegal here. Hence I have never seen one.


No, it is nothing like a drum trap, it works on the same principle as a p-trap.



Plumberman said:


> Depends. Will flesh be a showing?:whistling2:


Only if the maid is being weird, we had to wait till Tuesday because she is only there then, Violetta is at her villa in Italy.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> What's wrong with the polished nickel trap in the pic?


*They're not legal here, I'm pretty sure this is why:*

(c) *Prohibited Traps*. The following type traps are prohibited.

Traps which depend upon moving parts to maintain their seal.
Bell traps.
Crown vented traps.
Separate fixture traps which depend on interior partitions for their seal.
Full "S" traps.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Proud Plumber said:


> Question? Is a bottle trap similar to a drum trap? Drums are illegal here. Hence I have never seen one.


Not really!

The bottle trap relies on an internal partition to form the trap seal shown in the cut away drawing below...










The problem is if this partition corrodes away how do you know if there is a trap seal? This is why they are not approved...

The drum trap has the inlet coming in below the outlet thus the inlet piping is flooded. There are also drum traps that have the inlet tube high but rely on the inlet tube extending down inside the drum to form the trap seal. These would be similar to the botle trap in that it relies on an internal partition thats integrity cannot be verified.










This lead drum trap shows the internal partition type where the inlet tube forms the partition.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

The first time I saw a bottle trap was when I was visiting a chick (my wife now) in Europe. I like them. They are much more aesthetic than p-traps.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Only if the maid is being weird, we had to wait till Tuesday because she is only there then, Violetta is at her villa in Italy.


Damn, well one then is all it takes:yes:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *They're not legal here, I'm pretty sure this is why:*
> 
> (c) *Prohibited Traps*. The following type traps are prohibited.
> 
> ...


That used to be Chicago's code, till it was forced through to aprove bottle traps provided they met a certain standard on their construction, they must be made of cast brass at least 17 ga. 

I'm not overly fond of them when the apprentice blows the lav waste rough by an inch and we don't catch it till we are trimming the job.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

For years Maine required drum traps under all lavs. All because the Governors wife lost her diamond ring down a P trap and the Gov was convinced that had it been a drum trap she would have been able to recover it.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

The governor of Maine was a moron.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> The governor of Maine was a moron.


That was his point.:laughing: Its amazing that a state would actually REQUIRE such awful things.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> The governor of Maine was a moron.


:laughing:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

If you follow Maine politics, the Governor was not at all unusual. :whistling2:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Here's another one on my crap list:


People, women especially who chew food while talking to me on the phone about their plumbing. 


Put the  damn  food down and have some  respect would ya?  pathetic I swear. 


No one wants to hear you eat and talk at the same damn time. Just hanging up on them is usually the best remedy. Sooner or later they'll call back and I'll ask, "Are you done eating NOW?!?!"


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

1) Hacks
2) HO that bird dog me when I am working
3) Crane wall hung lavs
4) Small kitchen cabinets
5) Pre soldered fits
6) Toliet to go in tha box
7) Customers telling me how to fix something, If you know so much then why am I here


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

1. accordian slip extensions.
2. people who glue abs to pvc, notice i didn't say plumbers.
3. the fact that i can go to home depot and buy a new s- trap.
4. kathie lee gifford.
5. contractors who think they're brilliant.
6. homeowners who want a bid on a toilet repair.
7. farmers who general their own projects.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

1. Whiney *****es in the above posts who are stuck in the stone age that complain about: pex, sharkbites, cpvc, tubular traps, studor vents, anything else that makes them uncompetitive in todays market
2. killertoiletspider's #4 and #6
3. plumberman's #2 and #7
4. grumpyplumber's #2


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> 1. Whiney *****es in the above posts who are stuck in the stone age that complain about: pex, sharkbites, cpvc, tubular traps, studor vents, anything else that makes them uncompetitive in todays market
> 2. killertoiletspider's #4 and #6
> 3. plumberman's #2 and #7
> 4. grumpyplumber's #2


*What are your thoughts on PB?*


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*My #2 was Watts flood safe...you're kidding right?*

*You see a function in those?*

*I s'pose you also like Watts copper fittings with the solder rings built in...do ya?*


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

No, I was agreeing with you. Floodsafes suck.
As does 98% of PB


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> No, I was agreeing with you. Floodsafes suck.
> As does 98% of PB


*Dammit...just when I was all geared up for a good ole fashioned ho-down!*

*Your #1 looked like a jab...guess you were kidding.*


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Dammit...just when I was all geared up for a good ole fashioned ho-down!*
> 
> *Your #1 looked like a jab...guess you were kidding.*


I hope he was kidding. Otherwise he's just another hack defending sharkbits and the like!:no:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

#1 WAS a jab. The Rest were not. BTW I think I'm on my 420ish sb install and have yet to have a problem. What exactly is your beef with sharks?(other than any idiot can install one, which is true)


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Protech said:


> #1 WAS a jab. The Rest were not. BTW I think I'm on my 420ish sb install and have yet to have a problem. What exactly is your beef with sharks?(other than any idiot can install one, which is true)


I installed a few when they first came out but I felt VERY uneasy about them possibly leaking or blowing apart, and I decided I would rather just stay away from them and sleep better at night. I just feel better using more traditional, stronger joints.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Like?


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> Like?


Rubber and city supplied domestic water don't mix well, as municipal water is chlorinated (most not nearly as much as Chicago though) which rots rubber rather quickly, and the seal on a shark bite is a rubber o-ring.

They aren't legal here.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Rubber and city supplied domestic water don't mix well, as municipal water is chlorinated (most not nearly as much as Chicago though) which rots rubber rather quickly, and the seal on a shark bite is a rubber o-ring.
> 
> They aren't legal here.


*Try bending the connected pipes laterally..I tried them once on a hydronic line and that was enough for me.*
*I feel like I'm using duct tape to hold a P-trap together, not professional grade stuff, I certainly agree with your statement on municipal water...look at what it does to rubber seals overall.*

*Then there's the argument that rubber holds up for years, but the rubber parts are usually accessible on valves, stems & flappers...even a packing nut can be tightened.*

*A Sharkbite is a sitting duck inside walls or ceilings.*
*Once that 1/8th inch seal goes, it's all over but the cryin'.*


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

My logic:

I only use shark bites to transition to and from old copper, which will pin-hole befor your eyes if you take a torch to it in my area more than 50% of the time.

The rubber will out last out last the pipe.

Yes, I know that house needs a repipe if the copper is that bad.

Customer's logic: 

Assuming a sweat connection is made, the line leaks right then and there. Customer says "It wasn't leaking right there before until you messed with it and I'm not paying you to fix it."

Assuming a compression connection is made, see above statement.

Assuming a shark is used, the repair holds. 1 in 10 leaks a month or so later about an 1/2 inch away from the coupling from the eddie formed by the insert fitting. By the time this has happened the check has already cleared and when they call me up yelling I direct there attention to the disclaimer on the invoice that says "Pipes are old and corroded and will most likely leak again from being disturbed. There is NO WARRANTY on old copper pipes or connections thereto. A complete repiping of the copper water distribution system is the only proper fix and the only repair we will warranty. The customer has been advised of this verbally as well." 

In the other 9 cases the sharkbite will outlast the pipe it is attached to.

Like many new products, shark bites have their applications. There will always be people who are stuck in there ways though, and the free market will weed them out in time like so many others before them.:sad:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Sharkbite seals are EPDM not rubber. EPDM is very chlorine resistant, pretty UV resistant too, not that it matters in the application we're discussing.
:thumbsup:
 


Killertoiletspider said:


> Rubber and city supplied domestic water don't mix well, as municipal water is chlorinated (most not nearly as much as Chicago though) which rots rubber rather quickly, and the seal on a shark bite is a rubber o-ring.
> 
> They aren't legal here.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> Like many new products, shark bites have their applications. There will always be people who are stuck in there ways though, and the free market will weed them out in time like so many others before them.:sad:


*Again, my comments on PB.*
*Despie code approval...nobody uses it.*

*There always seems to be a phase where new products attract attention, then die off to handymanland & the happy homeowner...I think this is one of those.*


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

*"Despie code approval...nobody uses it."*

Something to consider if your a copper elitist. Even after all the pb and cpvc that was slung in over the years I still do copper repairs at about a 4-1 copper to pb ratio. Food for thought*:whistling2:*


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> *"Despie code approval...nobody uses it."*
> 
> Something to consider if your a copper elitist. Even after all the pb and cpvc that was slung in over the years I still do copper repairs at about a 4-1 copper to pb ratio. Food for thought*:whistling2:*


And I have tied into 4" galvanized water risers in high rises that are a hundred years old and work just fine. I have seen three materials for water pipe that have stood the test of time, galvanized steel, brass, and lead. I doubt any plastic will ever match them over a hundred years.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

And I've repiped houses where the galvo was completely GONE in 20 years and I hope that you’re not suggesting that we bring lead back?



Killertoiletspider said:


> And I have tied into 4" galvanized water risers in high rises that are a hundred years old and work just fine. I have seen three materials for water pipe that have stood the test of time, galvanized steel, brass, and lead. I doubt any plastic will ever match them over a hundred years.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> And I've repiped houses where the galvo was completely GONE in 20 years and I hope that you’re not suggesting that we bring lead back?


How many plastic systems have been proven to last twenty years untouched?


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Justify sharkbites all you want. I still think they are leakers. I hope for your sake they hold, personally by avoiding them I don't even have to worry about it.:thumbup:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> And I've repiped houses where the galvo was completely GONE in 20 years and I hope that you’re not suggesting that we bring lead back?


OK, now that I read this again, I appreciate that you want to repeat everything that the manufacturers of these plastic products want you to believe, I really do. The real truth is this, there are tens of thousands of lead water services in Chicago that are more than 80 years old, as far as I can tell they haven't killed anyone. Those same houses have cast iron stacks with lead joints holding them together, they haven't killed anyone either. Lead is only a threat if you choose to eat it or burn it and inhale the fumes.

But don't let the facts interfere with what the plastics manufacturers taught you to beleive.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I often don't have problems with new technologies. When I see the Coke or Pepsi companies come in and run a bunch of plastic hoses and feel good about them, I realize that we don't live in the same world that we lived in a hundred years ago.

So, here's a few gripes:

Plastic faucets. 
Chinese gate valves
box store employees or plumbing supply employees who tell customers how to plumb
poor code enforcement
galvanized pipe

Here, galvy pipe means that you can't keep a faucet from plugging up. It means joints that will break underground. Rust never sleeps. It's been a long time since you could get good galvanized pipe, even domestic.

Copper is failing here more and more - I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the water quality is changing. I use it for tub and shower valves and that's about it.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I completely agree with herk again.


KTS:
_Quote:_
_Originally Posted by _*Protech*_ http://www.plumbingzone.com/showthread.php?p=10909#post10909_
_And I've repiped houses where the galvo was completely GONE in 20 years and I hope that you’re not suggesting that we bring lead back?_

_How many plastic systems have been proven to last twenty years untouched?_

In my area, tens of thousands of systems.

KTS:
_Killertoiletspider_​_Quote:_
_Originally Posted by _*Protech*_ http://www.plumbingzone.com/showthread.php?p=10909#post10909_
_And I've repiped houses where the galvo was completely GONE in 20 years and I hope that you’re not suggesting that we bring lead back?_
_OK, now that I read this again, I appreciate that you want to repeat everything that the manufacturers of these plastic products want you to believe, I really do. The real truth is this, there are tens of thousands of lead water services in Chicago that are more than 80 years old, as far as I can tell they haven't killed anyone. Those same houses have cast iron stacks with lead joints holding them together, they haven't killed anyone either. Lead is only a threat if you choose to eat it or burn it and inhale the fumes.

But don't let the facts interfere with what the plastics manufacturers taught you to beleive. _​ 
Ok, so your saying there are absolutely no health issues with drinking water exposed to lead? Do you drink lead exposed water? Does your family? Is that why AWWA has banned lead use in potable applications? I guess they just pulled that 8% # outta their rears cuz they thought it sounded kewl.

As for your statement about lead and oakum joints, I try to avoid consuming any water that has traveled thru a CI sanitary system when ever I can. It’s a bit tart for my liking.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

How many lead services have you worked on?


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> How many lead services have you worked on?


Does one have to work on a specific substance in order to recognize it's danger?

I have never worked with cyanide but I recognize it's danger.

(I happen to believe a lead water service is among the least of our worries.)


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Does one have to work on a specific substance in order to recognize it's danger?
> 
> I have never worked with cyanide but I recognize it's danger.
> 
> (I happen to believe a lead water service is among the least of our worries.)


You'd have to know what a cutoff section of old lead water service looks like on the inside to understand the point I am trying to make, I have a lead sevice in my house.

Almost all of the lead poisoning information is based on ingestion of lead based paint, they use projections when they figure the threat of lead water services, as there is no real research on it.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You'd have to know what a cutoff section of old lead water service looks like on the inside


Looks like it was made yesterday.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You'd have to know what a cutoff section of old lead water service looks like on the inside to understand the point I am trying to make, I have a lead sevice in my house.
> 
> Almost all of the lead poisoning information is based on ingestion of lead based paint, they use projections when they figure the threat of lead water services, as there is no real research on it.


I know what it looks like. And their ain't no lead leaching out of that!


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## masterk (Jun 20, 2008)

Crawl Spaces and the new bread of apprentices that don't want to get dirty and whine all day about everything.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

masterk said:


> Crawl Spaces and the new bread of apprentices that don't want to get dirty and whine all day about everything.


Why do you want to get dirty?


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Protech said:


> 1. Whiney *****es in the above posts who are stuck in the stone age that complain about: pex, sharkbites, cpvc, tubular traps, studor vents, anything else that makes them uncompetitive in todays market
> 2. killertoiletspider's #4 and #6
> 3. plumberman's #2 and #7
> 4. grumpyplumber's #2


 Name calling is not nice.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I fail to see how AAV's, sharkbites and the like make for a more competitive plumber. Once again we seem moe interested in slapping things in and gettin out and paid than doing things right.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

If you really want to be competitive forget the license forget the premit and grab a roll of radiator hose and a pocketfull of clamps.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> If you really want to be competitive forget the license forget the premit and grab a roll of radiator hose and a pocketfull of clamps.


*Whoa!*

*Wouldn't garden hose be more "competitive"?*


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

When you copper folks repipe a house, what sort of warranty do you offer? Are you usually higher or lower than the pex guy? How many holes do you have to cut or exposed piping do you have to run to do your work vs. the pex guy? How long are you in the home disrupting their day to day activities? The copper guys answers to those questions are why *I win every single bid* and still have great margins.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I am with you on pex protech. I do pex for my repipes. Pex is everywhere here and if I bid my waterlines in copper, I'd never get a job ever. Also pex is superior to copper with low pH acidic water which what we have here.

I still hate sharkbites though, I just can't trust an o-ring.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> When you copper folks repipe a house, what sort of warranty do you offer? Are you usually higher or lower than the pex guy? How many holes do you have to cut or exposed piping do you have to run to do your work vs. the pex guy? How long are you in the home disrupting their day to day activities? The copper guys answers to those questions are why *I win every single bid* and still have great margins.


PEX isn't legal where our work is. That doesn't change the fact that I have little faith in the integrity of the product.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> PEX isn't legal where our work is. That doesn't change the fact that I have little faith in the integrity of the product.


You have that to be thankful for because if it was, I assure you, you would not still be in business when your competition started using it.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> You have that to be thankful for because if it was, I assure you, you would not still be in business when your competition started using it.


Your wrong, but think what you want.


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## TotalPlumber (Sep 30, 2008)

*crap list*

Danco faucet repair parts
Whirlpool gas WH's
Wilkins PRV's
"Accordian" style tailpieces
Fernco P-traps (What were they thinkin'?)
on and on and on and on...


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Welcome Total, how about an intro?


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## TotalPlumber (Sep 30, 2008)

*Total intro, as requested...*

Been livin' the dream (small business owner) for 18 months, professional plumber for 12 years. Service, remodels, additions only. No new construction. Myself and 2 FT Master plumbers. Learning as I'm going, everyday poses new challenges. Still trying to figure out how some service companies manage 15% profitability! Whew! Hoping to gain some insights from folks on the forum.

TotalPlumbing/Alabama


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Welcome Totalplumber! The key to being profitable is to give top-notch service AND CHARGE FOR IT! Also I am big believer in Upfront Pricing, no surprises for the customer and better profits for quick, experienced master plumbing work.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

service guy said:


> Welcome Totalplumber! The key to being profitable is to give top-notch service AND CHARGE FOR IT! Also I am big believer in Upfront Pricing, no surprises for the customer and better profits for quick, experienced master plumbing work.


Well said, you are 100% correct. Educating the client on the value of craftsmanship and quality service ends in increased profitability. To me a 15% margin is a little low. 

PROFIT IS THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS.


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## TotalPlumber (Sep 30, 2008)

*profitability...*

Is there a section that can address "running the business" side of things? I was speaking of 15% net profit after taxes, payroll, expenses, Workman's comp., health ins, etc. If that's pretty low for you, congratulations! Can I fly you to Birmingham to let me in on the secret?


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

TotalPlumber said:


> Is there a section that can address "running the business" side of things? I was speaking of 15% net profit after taxes, payroll, expenses, Workman's comp., health ins, etc. If that's pretty low for you, congratulations! Can I fly you to Birmingham to let me in on the secret?


After 250 post you can access the business lounge.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

TotalPlumber said:


> Is there a section that can address "running the business" side of things? I was speaking of 15% net profit after taxes, payroll, expenses, Workman's comp., health ins, etc. If that's pretty low for you, congratulations! Can I fly you to Birmingham to let me in on the secret?


I misunderstood what you were saying...... I thought you were speaking of gross as opposed to net. As for Brmingham both my Mother and My sister live there I will come anytime


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Removing a cast Iron stack thats split 5 ft down in a small closet where snap cutters won't fit


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