# Solve this



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Solve this heating problem

Last Year I ran into this after several companies tried to fix the problem.

There is a 6 storey apartment building heated by one boiler, with out door reset, and one pump in the basement.

The problem was that all the the floors above had heat... but the basement floor apartments had no heat.

What do you think the problem was and how would you fix it.

I will post the answer on wednesday

The right answer gets you around trip ticket to PZ and back


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## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

Pump malfunctions or loses an impeller.

Upper floors heat by convection.

The lower floor's water, being cooler and heavier, can't heat through convection and the lower apartments never receive flow.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

not enough info to many variables maybe old gate valve on basement loop broke.

i don't think you would only have basement tenants complaining with a pump failure unless the system was originally designed as a gravity flow and then you would still have heat in the basement


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

i would think if the only circulator in the system was shot water would not be circulated causing it to boil and cause excessive pressure and pop the relief..


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

maybe steam system with basement loop (pump on loop went)


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Plumbworker said:


> i would think if the only circulator in the system was shot water would not be circulated causing it to boil and cause excessive pressure and pop the relief..



high limit aquastat should prevent that and here 3 family require manual reset aquastat


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## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

Plumbworker said:


> i would think if the only circulator in the system was shot water would not be circulated causing it to boil and cause excessive pressure and pop the relief..


The boiler should have a primary and secondary high limit to prevent boiling.

Also the boiling point of water is raised in relation to pressure. The minimum system on a 6 story building should be in the area of 30 psig

60'x.433+4=29.98psig

If the building had cast iron radiation, it's possible due to the larger pipe sizes and sizes of the waterways in the radiators themselves..

Who knows, it could have been a gravity conversion initially


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## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> not enough info to many variables maybe old gate valve on basement loop broke.
> 
> i don't think you would only have basement tenants complaining with a pump failure unless the system was originally designed as a gravity flow and then you would still have heat in the basement



Gravity flow is really difficult to get in basement apartments since hot water is less dense and tends to rise. The water is cooler so it never gets a chance to get into the mains.

Back in the day, people made fittings similar to diverter tees to promote flow in a certain direction.

They also used orifices to slow down the circulation to the higher floors and get heat to the lower floors.

I guess the key is the type of heat emitter and system.

It would be difficult to induce gravity circulation through a baseboard radiation system with trv's because of the pressure drop across those smaller pipes and valve.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

More clues

Everything checked out on boiler system. Boiler was not over heating. Pump was an S-45 armstrong and had current draw. Spring coupler was fine.

There was one zone valve per apartment.

All lower floor heat would not work


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

zone valves bad for lower floor apartments:laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Scrap guys boosted the radiation out of the lower floors. (Too much work to hump the stuff out of the upper floors)

Feeder was going like crazy.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The right answer is.....































































42


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I can see some of you guys hit the nail on the head.

What happened was that all the other companies said that the entirer basement floor heating had to be repiped.... they said the heating pipes were blocked

All the checked was if all the components worked.

Boiler was operating fine and they did a current check on circulating pump and that was fine. They all even checked the bearing assembly to see if it was turning.

The real problem was .... the impeller on the circ had broken and wore the body of the pump. Body of the pump housing had to be replaced along with impeller and bearing assembly.


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## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> I can see some of you guys hit the nail on the head.
> 
> What happened was that all the other companies said that the entirer basement floor heating had to be repiped.... they said the heating pipes were blocked
> 
> ...


I think that the amp draw would be out of spec and that would be a giveaway.

The draw would be high if the impelled sheared off due to the motors lack of resistance.


Good catch!!!


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