# Buried Lift Station



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Lift station buried 7' deep.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Doesn't look burried to me. 

Is that PE gas line or a shovel handle. 



**edit** You changed the pic on me!! Good thing you missed that line.




Paul


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I don't think that looks right.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

It's gas. Not buried after we spent a few hours digging it up.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

So I guess you have to dig it up every time you have a pump problem


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> So I guess you have to dig it up every time you have a pump problem


That sounds expensive...:laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

That's what happens when engineers "make" things work, mechanically.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

7' deep and no shoring  tsk tsk


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Type "A" soil.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Pipe Rat said:


> 7' deep and no shoring  tsk tsk


Hard pan clay mixed with sandstone doesn't move. Hence the jackhammer for digging. Used the backhoe to clean out the rock rubble as we chiseled it out.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Tell that to this guy.................


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I try to claim a lot of type "A" soil conditions myself. In reality type "A" is close to rock.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Choctaw said:


> Tell that to this guy.................


This guy was not in our hole. What are the details of the photo? Was he in a non-OSHA compliant situation? The top of the basin in my photo is 54". The excavated area you see is 6" less than the OSHA standard for sloping and shoring. The additional 30" is the depth of the hole the basin is in, NOT the hole my men are in. The bench at the bottom of our hole by far exceeds OSHA standards.

This excavation would be compliant in type A soil. Our excavation has 4' of type A soil sitting on top of a sandstone formation. The existing basin is in a hole chiseled in the sandstone. The sandstone would be more correctly classified as "stable rock". So even if my guys were going to physically be that deep, it would not only be safe but OSHA compliant as well.

BTW: Choctaw, thank you for mentioning trench safety. We have lost too many good men over the years needlessly to save time and a few dollars. *29 CFR 1926 Subpart P *should be required knowledge for EVERY person in the plumbing trade from apprentices on up.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

slickrick said:


> I try to claim a lot of type "A" soil conditions myself. In reality type "A" is close to rock.


We perform a soil density test on excavations. It is type A.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

Since you already have the lift station expose are you going to install or build a man hole to prevent this from happening again


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

130 PLUMBER said:


> Since you already have the lift station expose are you going to installed or build a man hole to prevent this from happening again


NO WAY!!! We're putting in a fiberglass basin that extends to ground level. It will also be strong enough to hopefully not cave in like the old one did.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> We perform a soil density test on excavations. It is type A.


I have a question. If "previously disturbed soil" is excluded from being classified as type "A" soil, how did this fit into the scheme of things, since the area had been excavated for the original installation. 2 ends don't look all that solid in the photo.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

This is getting way too complicated....................


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

*"Type A"* means cohesive soils with an unconfined, compressive strength
of 1.5 ton per square foot (tsf) (144 kPa) or greater. Examples of
cohesive soils are: clay, silty clay, sandy clay, clay loam and, in some
cases, silty clay loam and sandy clay loam. Cemented soils such as caliche
and hardpan are also considered Type A. *However, no soil is Type A if:
* (i) The soil is fissured; or
(ii) The soil is subject to vibration from heavy traffic, pile driving,
or similar effects; or
* (iii) The soil has been previously disturbed*; or
(iv) The soil is part of a sloped, layered system where the layers dip
into the excavation on a slope of four horizontal to one vertical (4H:1V)
or greater; or
(v) The material is subject to other factors that would require it to be
classified as a less stable material.
* "Type B" means:
* (i) Cohesive soil with an unconfined compressive strength greater than
0.5 tsf (48 kPa) but less than 1.5 tsf (144 kPa); or
(ii) Granular cohesionless soils including: angular gravel (similar to
crushed rock), silt, silt loam, sandy loam and, in some cases, silty clay
loam and sandy clay loam.
*(iii) Previously disturbed soils except those which would otherwise be
classed as Type C soil.
* (iv) Soil that meets the unconfined compressive strength or cementation
requirements for Type A, but is fissured or subject to vibration; or
(v) Dry rock that is not stable; or
(vi) Material that is part of a sloped, layered system where the layers
dip into the excavation on a slope less steep than four horizontal to one
vertical (4H:1V), but only if the material would otherwise be classified
as Type B.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

slickrick said:


> I have a question. If "previously disturbed soil" is excluded from being classified as type "A" soil, how did this fit into the scheme of things, since the area had been excavated for the original installation. 2 ends don't look all that solid in the photo.


I sit corrected. Since there had been a trench dug here in the past, it would seem that the soil in the ditch-line would be excluded from the type "A" classification. The loose dirt a the ends of the hole was from the chipping hammer and some from above. There was a definite line in the soil between 3 and 4 feet where the back hoe stopped and the chipping hammer had to start.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

PB, I was not trying to rag on you, type "A" soil conditions are hard to come by in most locations. That was why I said I "try" to claim type "A" conditions. If something were to happen, it would be hard to back up in court. Too many variables most of the time.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

slickrick said:


> PB, I was not trying to rag on you...


No offense taken SR. If I miss a detail on safety for my guys, I would rather learn it here than somewhere else. When I post something on a forum full of plumbers, I would expect to hear different opinions. This is far from the first and certainly won't be the last time my thinking gets tweaked. :thumbsup:

You're absolutely right about the court situation. Technicalities get exaggerated by even the rookie lawyers. Fortunately, this hole was under 5' for the standing depth and will have almost a 2' bench around the 7' portion so I am fairly certain it is compliant. If it is not, I welcome any direction offered.


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## plumbear (Jun 24, 2010)

Benching is supposed to be done every 4 feet and where is your ladder?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumbear said:


> Benching is supposed to be done every 4 feet and where is your ladder?


The depth of the bench is 4'6". I believe the top 6" is angled enough to be well within the slope specification of 1:1 for type "B" soil. The width of the bottom of the bench also larger than the hole for the basin and less than 4' which again exceeds a 1:1 ratio.

As for the ladder, 1926.651(c)(2) clearly states that a means of egress is required on excavations greater than 4'. There should be a ladder in this hole. :thumbsup:


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