# What's wrong with this Tankless install?



## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

Was at a customers house yesterday running a gas line for new range and happened to notice her tankless water heater. Asked her who installed it and she said CoolRay/Mr. Plumber :thumbsup:
Can you spot the most glaring problems from these shots.....
Also, the vent was run out directly under the back deck.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

No t&p valve or drain, SHARK BITES, no isolation kit to flush, cpvc hooked up directly, no insulation, no condensate on the vent (from what I can see)...the list goes on and on. I didn't insulate my last one and I hooked uponor directly to isolation kit but that's just HORRIBLE!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumbergeek said:


> Was at a customers house yesterday running a gas line for new range and happened to notice her tankless water heater. Asked her who installed it and she said CoolRay/Mr. Plumber :thumbsup:
> Can you spot the most glaring problems from these shots.....
> Also, the vent was run out directly under the back deck.


Why, its another job done by allencat..


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Why, its another job done by allencat..


I doubt it he probably doesn't even know what one is


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I love the gaspex connection. :no:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Oh my gawd.......:blink:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Why, its another job done by allencat..


And he inspected his own work to. Thumbs up


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

The job might last longer than that POS Noritz. Lol j/k


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## germanplumber (Sep 13, 2011)

wheres the bracing or some kinda support on the pipe:no:


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## Bigcim (Feb 22, 2013)

Jesus man, Im a carpenter and know that install has major issues.
Heres one I finished up today solo. Removed a 75 gallon water heater and installed a new tankless. New gas and water. Pic was taken way before I finished.


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## Bigcim (Feb 22, 2013)

Here it is a little further along


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Bigcim said:


> Jesus man, Im a carpenter and know that install has major issues.
> Heres one I finished up today solo. Removed a 75 gallon water heater and installed a new tankless. New gas and water. Pic was taken way before I finished.


If your a carpenter then why are you plumbing?


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

Bigcim said:


> Here it is a little further along


 
Why mount it so high that you need a ladder to service it? The vent also terminates right next to that air intake..... though I suppose with convection and the balancing intake beneath it that would more function as an exhaust. I'm having trouble zooming in, is there a relief valve in there, perhaps attached to the copper pipe that penetrates the exterior wall? Unless someone needs a hot hose bibb outside I suppose that might be the case.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

CaberTosser said:


> Why mount it so high that you need a ladder to service it? The vent also terminates right next to that air intake..... though I suppose with convection and the balancing intake beneath it that would more function as an exhaust. I'm having trouble zooming in, is there a relief valve in there, perhaps attached to the copper pipe that penetrates the exterior wall? Unless someone needs a hot hose bibb outside I suppose that might be the case.


Of course he can, he's a carpenter doing plumbing work, all carpetner have ladder .


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

germanplumber said:


> wheres the bracing or some kinda support on the pipe:no:


Why would you need support the rest was put in just good enough:laughing:


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

No drip leg on gas pipe. 
Code out my way says you need a gas cock not a ball valve. 
I would not run relief valve out side. It's there to let you now there's a problem. Not for watering the grass.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

vinpadalino said:


> No drip leg on gas pipe.
> Code out my way says you need a gas cock not a ball valve.
> I would not run relief valve out side. It's there to let you now there's a problem. Not for watering the grass.


Gas still needs drip leg around here too, the ball valve would not pass here but the biggest issue is the relief going outside mud dobbers would use it to make there nest for there young. That would be a problem if it ever discharged!


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

What's wrong with a ballvalve rated for WOG?


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

Yea bad for the dobbers


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Olemissplumber said:


> What's wrong with a ballvalve rated for WOG?


Ball valve is not a gas valve even if it makes the rating. I would say its probably has something to do with liability.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> Ball valve is not a gas valve even if it makes the rating. I would say its probably has something to do with liability.


If its rated for gas what would be the liability? Our gas supplier contractors use them when they install water heaters. They don't see an issue and frankly neither do I. 

What does the national fuel and gas code say?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Maybe it should look more like this !! The t&p will be ran to a hub drain but in most cases it will run outside


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Maybe it should look more like this !! The t&p will be ran to a hub drain but in most cases it will run outside


Don't you usually face a ball valve handle in the direction of flow??? Nah I'm just messing, looks good bro! I have nothing - to say on it. I'm sure someone here will find something though.....


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Maybe it should look more like this !! The t&p will be ran to a hub drain but in most cases it will run outside


I do have a question. How is one to access the hot isolation hose connection? Is the gas in the way? Looks tight.

On second glance it looks fine. Nice work.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I usually do face the valve like that. But in this case it looks better this way. And I don't care what anyone says. That install is dam good. They can't touch it !!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Olemissplumber said:


> I do have a question. How is one to access the hot isolation hose connection? Is the gas in the way? Looks tight.
> 
> On second glance it looks fine. Nice work.


You are very rite it is too close Why they put the gas I front of the hot outlet I don't get. But break that black union loose slide gas drop over an inch and you good to go I could have extended the drops with brass coupling and nipple but I did not have them and was out of town install. Next one I do I'm considering doin that.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> You are very rite it is too close Why they put the gas I front of the hot outlet I don't get. But break that black union loose slide gas drop over an inch and you good to go I could have extended the drops with brass coupling and nipple but I did not have them and was out of town install. Next one I do I'm considering doin that.


If you put a 90 on the unit instead of the union it will clear with no issues.
Hard to tell on my phone but is that ½" on the water? Around here minimum size for a water heater is ¾".
You would get your balls busted fromost inspectors around here for the gas cock not being before the drip leg.


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

I think you should have put the copper on 3/4" strut, so that maybe you could either do away with one of the 45's on each offset, or at least been able to put the 90's upward straight with the drop and keep the 45 offsets straight. 

Everything looks clean, square, and straight otherwise.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

bct p&h said:


> If you put a 90 on the unit instead of the union it will clear with no issues.
> Hard to tell on my phone but is that ½" on the water? Around here minimum size for a water heater is ¾".
> You would get your balls busted fromost inspectors around here for the gas cock not being before the drip leg.


I tried the 90' idea and it was still in the way a bit so with the union taken loose it was the best way for access The gas stop after drip leg meets code here and to be honest thers an Iron body stop in the line that feeds the unit or I would have put the red top in a different place
Water is 3/4 inch 

Strutt is 1 5/8 because the copper is getting 1" wall glass insulation so 3/4 strut wouldn't work 

I knew my comment on they can't touch it would bring on comments. Any other takers ??? Lol. It's not a perfect install but a dam good one plus if some one finds a problem with it. I can change / fix it. This at a new const. Job and yet to be put in service I'm not afraid of being proven wrong or learning from my peers. It's made me a better plumber over the last two years


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

You can get a hose on the connection on the hot side with out moving the gas but it ain't easy to do. Like I said why they designed the unit like that idk


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Maybe it should look more like this !! The t&p will be ran to a hub drain but in most cases it will run outside


That looks like sh*t. What's with all the 45's?


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I tried the 90' idea and it was still in the way a bit so with the union taken loose it was the best way for access The gas stop after drip leg meets code here and to be honest thers an Iron body stop in the line that feeds the unit or I would have put the red top in a different place
> Water is 3/4 inch
> 
> Strutt is 1 5/8 because the copper is getting 1" wall glass insulation so 3/4 strut wouldn't work
> ...


It might be the isolation valves you're using giving you the clearance issues. I know the brass craft kit will clear with a 90 on the gas. It's tight but it will clear with a hose.
Only other things I can pick on are that you're taking combustion air from the building which can be done if you have the air for it but on a high efficient I don't like to do, and you're missing the condensate drain with the acid neutralizer.
Not a fan of pro press either:jester:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Condensate will be ran after mech company sets a hub drain for me. T&P also. There's a louver in the walk for comb air and can't remember the brand of valves. Il look into the brass craft This is my first tankless in years. Only done a few rinnia years ago. 

Boss said pro press 

Boss said 1" wall glass and put it on strut so I had to roll two 45's to get on the strut


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Condensate will be ran after mech company sets a hub drain for me. T&P also. There's a louver in the walk for comb air and can't remember the brand of valves. Il look into the brass craft This is my first tankless in years. Only done a few rinnia years ago.
> 
> Boss said pro press
> 
> Boss said 1" wall glass and put it on strut so I had to roll two 45's to get on the strut


They make 21/4 and 31/4 strut which makes it easer and could cut some of the offsets out.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Really. I didn't know that. I'd like to see if I can get some. Does the sparky store like graybar or Elliot supply carry it ??


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

Now that wyrick mentions it, I saw a piece of the 2 1/4" strut sitting in our warehouse a few weeks back, first time I had ever seen it.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I've never seen it I've bolted strut together. I wanted to use stand off clamps and delete the 45 s but boss likes strut I though about anchors and all thread to bring out the strut to where I needed it but didnt have any. I had to get the unit installed that day I didn't care for the 45 much but had no choice


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

I use it quite a bit, it comes in handy when you have things that are different thickness. Go to either beeline or unistrut they should have a list of all the goods you can get. Has anybody had engineers make them use the isolation strut clamps yet? We call them Cush clamps


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Yes on some sch 80 PVC at a chlorine factory. He cut open an old piece of pipe with a reg strut clamp on it and you could see the stress fractures in the pipe. We also use them on acr pipe. I like them a lot


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Yes on some sch 80 PVC at a chlorine factory. He cut open an old piece of pipe with a reg strut clamp on it and you could see the stress fractures in the pipe. We also use them on acr pipe. I like them a lot


I know they cost more but they hold a lot better the only thing is on med gas piping you have to watch how close you are or you will melt the bushing. A lot better product .


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I think they should be code for copper pipe


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I've never seen it I've bolted strut together. I wanted to use stand off clamps and delete the 45 s but boss likes strut I though about anchors and all thread to bring out the strut to where I needed it but didnt have any. I had to get the unit installed that day I didn't care for the 45 much but had no choice


Could you have turned the 90's on a 45 degree angle and then used one 45 fitting to turn vertical to the unit?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Nope tried that too. Brought me out to far


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## Bigcim (Feb 22, 2013)

I'm out in Southern California. My main trade is a finished carpenter but I have been doing plumbing for many years as well. I don't feel right calling myself a plumber untill I know more about plumbing then I do about carpentry. I think that's a fair way to look at it. I thought about putting a drip leg after seeing it a lot on this site. It makes sense to me although not required here. I had concerns about the exhaust so I had a pre inspection with the city inspector because I didn't want to drill in a wrong spot. The venting was for an old water heater. He said the termination would be fine there and we could delete those vents if we wanted because the garage had plenty other venting. I installed it higher then I would like for two reasons. 1 it was the top floor gagrage on a 3 story house on the side of a hill by the Hollywood sign. The pipes were in the attic on the other side of that wall as low as I could get them without cutting open walls or using more pipe then necessary. 2 customer ask to put it higher, he's 6'3" and wanted to build storage shelves under it. I'm 6' tall and I'm eye level with the dip switches in the unit. The prv exits on the other side of the wall 2" off a concrete patio. The garage isn't slopped so I was worried water would flood out lower levels inside his house if it went off. The hole was already in the stucco from the old water heater drip pan so I thought might as well use it. Thanks guys looking forward to growing with knowledge, God bless


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I think they should be code for copper pipe


Just wait its coming the reason on med gas is dissimilar metals . The talk I had with a engineer was prove to me that the copper is not going to be in contact with the steel in the unistrut. I called and any producer will wright you a letter but it is only if you use there brand all the way threw. That is including all faseners clamps ect. I would not be surprised if it is in the next revision of the code books.


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## Plumb26 (May 18, 2013)

Bigcim said:


> Jesus man, Im a carpenter and know that install has major issues.
> Heres one I finished up today solo. Removed a 75 gallon water heater and installed a new tankless. New gas and water. Pic was taken way before I finished.


Propress?


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

Olemissplumber said:


> What's wrong with a ballvalve rated for WOG?





PLUMBER_BILL said:


> WOG does not mean natural gas ... The ball valve must be rated AGA
> 
> not all ball valves are.



taken from here, post number 9 .........

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/valve-question-24911/#post397187


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Bayside500 said:


> taken from here, post number 9 .........
> 
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/valve-question-24911/#post397187


Is that what the national fuel gas code says it must be AGA? While I value Mr PArrs opinion the code is really what I'd like to know. I loaned by code book out and don't have a reference but looked at my ballvalves and they are AGA approved.


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## Bigcim (Feb 22, 2013)

Plumb26 said:


> Propress?


huh


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

He's asking if you used ProPress... 

Unnastan?


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## Bigcim (Feb 22, 2013)

All the copper I did was soldered. Easily seen in the photos. Thats why I was a little confused I thought the question was meant for TX MECH PLUMBER


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## Bigcim (Feb 22, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> I use it quite a bit, it comes in handy when you have things that are different thickness. Go to either beeline or unistrut they should have a list of all the goods you can get. Has anybody had engineers make them use the isolation strut clamps yet? We call them Cush clamps


Cush clamps it what I used on my install


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Bigcim said:


> Cush clamps it what I used on my install


Good product I will be using them from now on on everything.


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