# Identify this stem



## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

I mentioned yesterday to @skoronesa that I wanted to do a give away, especially for the repair guys.

Here are the rules: 
PM me your answer. Do not respond in this thread with the answer. If you PM me the correct answer, I will ask for your address and send you a broach gauge: 











This is a shower valve stem. It is very unique in how it works and how it looks. The OEM is no longer in business and hasn't been for my lifetime.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Well phuck.

Since Bill's been out with his hip injury I am pretty sure no one is on here who can identify that.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

skoronesa said:


> Well phuck.
> 
> Since Bill's been out with his hip injury I am pretty sure no one is on here who can identify that.


I went with a hard one first. If I get no answers, I will tell the OEM and do another one. 

Have you ever seen anything like that?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Ok so if I understand correctly you want us to know what that stem is and it has been abandoned before your life?? We aren't 90 years old.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Tango said:


> Ok so if I understand correctly you want us to know what that stem is and it has been abandoned before your life?? We aren't 90 years old.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

bawalter said:


> I went with a hard one first. If I get no answers, I will tell the OEM and do another one.
> 
> Have you ever seen anything like that?





Tango said:


> Ok so if I understand correctly you want us to know what that stem is and it has been abandoned before your life?? We aren't 90 years old.


I've seen a single handle American Standard from 1956(or older) still in use, and I've seen a single handle Sterling that could be just as old as that thing but sterling still technically exists, though they were bought out by kohler, kohler kept making sterling stuff for quite a while before they essentially just became a name.

I've seen an fixed plenty of stuff that was older than 90 years. But this contest will clearly be easier for those of us in very old parts of the country. Tango is from the city so he and many others on here have no hope of identifying stuff like that.

I may have to start my own contest with random fixture/faucet parts.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> I've seen an fixed plenty of stuff that was older than 90 years. But this contest will clearly be easier for those of us in very old parts of the country. Tango is from the city so he and many others on here have no hope of identifying stuff like that.


 You have that right, for me the oldest stuff are Emco 2 handle tub faucets from the 80's or Waltec laundry tub faucets or bathtub. Even those are being phased out. Nothing older than that really, most stuff have all been torn out long ago. Other than that everything is pretty much modern, Moen delfa and the last decade a local faucet manufacturer or 2. All the rest are a mix of no name stuff where it's an automatic throw away replacement, even the luxury brand here get an automatic destruction, the company don't want to give parts to their customers even if the faucet is like 4 years old.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

One of the highest quality faucets I've seen the past couple years was from costco. The customer bought it ~15 years ago, after ~5 years something failed and they got ahold of costco who sent them a new cartridge, hose, pull out head, and a couple other parts, pretty much everything except the body and neck for FREE.

Darn near every part on that thing was brass. Even the hose weight was cast brass. I thought it was brass plated lead or zinc, nope, cut that phucker in half, solid brass.

Only cost them like 120$ in the early 2000's. I replaced it a year ago because they got sent the wrong cartridge twice. It was free of charge but they were sick of not having a kitchen faucet. The sediment in their water was killing the cartridges. They are close to our shop so they figured just get a kohler from us and if it fails we're right there.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

bawalter said:


> I mentioned yesterday to @skoronesa that I wanted to do a give away, especially for the repair guys.
> 
> Here are the rules:
> PM me your answer. Do not respond in this thread with the answer. If you PM me the correct answer, I will ask for your address and send you a broach gauge:
> ...



Unique.......... Hmmm

Wasn't it Chicago that invented the reverse seal idea. With the pressure vs against? Still looking at it.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> Unique.......... Hmmm
> 
> Wasn't it Chicago that invented the reverse seal idea. With the pressure vs against? Still looking at it.


I don't know about invented but yeah, chicago faucet cartridges do have the washer on the pressure side. The monel washer stem can also unscrew which is a real pitd.

This stem he shows looks like it's missing a center piece which would cover the outlet of the valve body. Presumably one stream comes in next to the diamond shaped holes and the other stream of water would enter near the missing piece. My other guess would be that both the hot and cold supplies had check valves since other wise you'd have a constant cross connection.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

skoronesa said:


> sterling still technically exists, though they were bought out by kohler


There was actually a Sterling Brass and a Sterling Faucet. Sterling Faucet was bought out by Kohler. Sterling Brass went out of business.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

skoronesa said:


> This stem he shows looks like it's missing a center piece which would cover the outlet of the valve body.


There are Acme threads in the middle. The seat had Acme threads on the outside of it. The stem moved up and down on the seat instead of up and down the valve body or in the bonnet.

EDIT: Here is a cut out from our catalog. You can see the bibb screw and bibb washer in it:










EDIT 2 - this is the bibb seat.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The weird design threw me off and this whole time I was thinking it was a single handle shower valve built like a backwards symmons.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

You say the manufacturer has been out of business for half a century. Crane stopped making brass quite a while ago, but I don't think it's been that long. Sayco has only been gone for a few decades. JLMott hasn't been around since way before WWII. I can't think of any others.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

dhal22 said:


> Unique.......... Hmmm
> 
> Wasn't it Chicago that invented the reverse seal idea. With the pressure vs against? Still looking at it.


Crane Dial-Eze would have come before that I think.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Plumbus said:


> You say the manufacturer has been out of business for half a century. Crane stopped making brass quite a while ago, but I don't think it's been that long. Sayco has only been gone for a few decades. JLMott hasn't been around since way before WWII. I can't think of any others.


Universal and Pubco off the top of my head. There are a bunch more. Republic went out of business and Briggs bought all their ****.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Barry
I reached out to Dave Guy without telling him who I got the picture from. He and his dad guessed Royal Crown. Then, he said to forward the pic to you. He's told me about you in the past. And, when you popped up here, I wondered if you might be his source of parts.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

if a customer callled me with an old pile of crap that needed that part, it would be in the garbage long before i would buy a replacement part.. i have fixed extremely old kohler. thats what you find here, being 15 miles from kohler. i still rip them out and toss them. how do you possibly justify making a part for an old discontinued piece of junk? it doesnt seem profitable .


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

bawalter said:


> Universal and Pubco off the top of my head. There are a bunch more. Republic went out of business and Briggs bought all their ****.


Were Universal and Pubco OEM's selling under their own brand or after market.
BTW: Have you ever taken a tour of P.E. Guerin in NYC?


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> if a customer callled me with an old pile of crap ........


What do you consider worth fixing? Why open the wall over a faucet washer and a seat or a 20$ stem/cartridge?


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> if a customer callled me with an old pile of crap that needed that part, it would be in the garbage long before i would buy a replacement part.. i have fixed extremely old kohler. thats what you find here, being 15 miles from kohler. i still rip them out and toss them. how do you possibly justify making a part for an old discontinued piece of junk? it doesnt seem profitable .


You say piece of junk and I think you're wrong. I see something like this and think beauty.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

not something that was made by a company that went out of business before my parents were born. he hasnt told us what this old junk goes in. could just be a lav faucet. less time and money to replace and no call backs or 10 hours of calls to find parts. i will fix faucets worth fixing. chances are if you have something this old, you have other issues as well and its time to start replacing.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Plumbus said:


> Barry
> I reached out to Dave Guy without telling him who I got the picture from. He and his dad guessed Royal Crown. Then, he said to forward the pic to you. He's told me about you in the past. And, when you popped up here, I wondered if you might be his source of parts.


I don't recognize the name. What company?


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Plumbus said:


> BTW: Have you ever taken a tour of P.E. Guerin in NYC?


My dad, Barry Sr. has been there. We make some stuff for them. He says it was a trip. 


Plumbus said:


> Were Universal and Pubco OEM's selling under their own brand or after market.


Yes, they were both OEM under their name. Pre WWII.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

bawalter said:


> You say piece of junk and I think you're wrong. I see something like this and think beauty.
> View attachment 127210


yeah, the robins egg blue tile and rusty grout is beautiful. not worth fixing. is this in a plumbing museum? everyone needs wifi, backup cameras in cars, smart phones, and at the top of their lists, 100 year old bathroom fixtures.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> hasnt told us what this old junk goes in. could just be a lav faucet.


The picture I posted with the handles would have had the stem I posted at the beginning. That to me is worth fixing.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Plumbus said:


> Royal Crown


Not Royal.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> What do you consider worth fixing? Why open the wall over a faucet washer and a seat or a 20$ stem/cartridge?


(tub/showers) If I have the parts in my truck maybe. If it isn't it'll cost them 2000$ to get a never before seen stem plus 3 weeks to get it while water is dripping and dripping and dripping ruining the floors below. And there's no guarantee it'll fix the drip!

Cut wall and 3 hours later they have a new up to code faucet where they won't get scalded when someone uses water somewhere else.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

my experiences with old showers as from the 40s or 50s is that there is no waterproofing behind the tile. tile isnt water proof and its usually stuck to plaster that isnt waterproof. time to gut it and when i do, the valve is getting replaced as well.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> (tub/showers) If I have the parts in my truck maybe. If it isn't it'll cost them 2000$ to get a never before seen stem plus 3 weeks to get it while water is dripping and dripping and dripping ruining the floors below. And there's no guarantee it'll fix the drip!
> 
> Cut wall and 3 hours later they have a new up to code faucet where they won't get scalded when someone uses water somewhere else.


Not all of us live in the third world country of canuckistan. Also scalding is indicative of other plumbing issues such as improperly sized pipes, lack of a prv, etc.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Sweet, I just won a broach gauge.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Not all of us live in the third world country of canuckistan. Also scalding is indicative of other plumbing issues such as improperly sized pipes, lack of a prv, etc.


fuddle duddle


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> Not all of us live in the third world country of canuckistan. Also scalding is indicative of other plumbing issues such as improperly sized pipes, lack of a prv, etc.


its indicative of an old 2 handle valve that should be replace with a one handle pressure balanced valve.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

chonkie said:


> Sweet, I just won a broach gauge.


Really?!?!? How the heck did you recognize that? I ain't never seen one of those in the field. Must be a regional thing.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> Really?!?!? How the heck did you recognize that? I ain't never seen one of those in the field. Must be a regional thing.


I remembered seeing it on a website while looking at antique plumbing stuff. It wasn't DEA Bath, but a similar site. I just can't remember the site name now. I'll often look at sites and check out manufacturers I've never heard of, and remember seeing that one awhile back.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

HOLY SCHIT!! Which one of you TURDS sent my picture to DEA to identify?!?! They just sent it to me!! You are all disqualified!! There are rules to contests!!

EDIT: I am laughing my ass off.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Carry on. I know who it was. 

I will post another picture of an oddball later today.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

They got the answer right, too.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Plumbus said:


> They got the answer right, too.


If you mean DEA got the right answer it is because they sent it to our helpdesk email and my Director of Operations identified it for them.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I guess that disqualifies them, the cheaters.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)




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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Round two for schits and giggles. Obscure stem from a well known OEM. 

If I have already sent you a broach gauge, guess away but I am not sending you more.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

I am just going to say that @chonkie is a savant with this stuff.....


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

The first stem pictured was Sphinx. They were an OEM out of Los Angeles, CA and Grand Haven, MI.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

I was thinking of @SchmitzPlumbing comment about a plumbing museum. I have stuff that could go in one, that is for sure. 

I still have most of a catalog from them. 









I think it is cool ****. 









You can see the stem, bonnet and seat in the parts section of the catalog. 










The price sheet is from 1929.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

bawalter said:


> I was thinking of @SchmitzPlumbing comment about a plumbing museum. I have stuff that could go in one, that is for sure.
> ..........



From now on whenever a package filled with antique plumbing parts/tools shows up I am telling my wife it's not more crap, it's a new exhibit for the Barry Walter Sr. Memorial Plumbing Museum!


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