# calling all well experts



## express (Nov 22, 2008)

Water coming out of faucets and tub were pulsating. When I looked at the Pressure gauge (30-50 switch) Pressure would drop down to 20psi, switch would kick on at 30psi but pressure would keep dropping and then have a delay before building. All faucets are off during this cycling. Replace pump and pipe inside well and install a 40-60 switch. Now it drops to 40psi and goes back to 60psi without any faucets on. This takes about 30 seconds. Could I also have a bad pressure tank? In the past on another job If the bladder was bad the switch would short cycle only when water was running. I changed the pump because I thought I had water leaking past internal check valve or leaking through cracks in the pipe. As I wrote these have made an improvement.
So what do the experts say? thanks Steve


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Yoiks! My first response would have been a split in the drop pipe (same as you) but apparently that isn't it.
You didn't check the well recovery? Sounds like you replaced an ailing pump in a failing well... now the new pump is up to snuff but the water supply is insufficient.

What's the gpm of the old pump? Does it match the new? Doesn't sound like anything aboveground other than the drawdown of the pressure tank is insufficient.

Sounds like the well needs to be fracked. Disconnect everything and see what it takes to exhaust the well supply (to a ditch or other waterway) and time the recovery.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Is there a check valve on the suction line? I assume were talking about a shallow well? If so then I would either replace the check valve or add one if there isn't one there, because the foot valve has let loose. Please respond, with more info for further assistance. Or, are we talking a submersible?


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Check th3e recovery time. The pump may be drawing more water than can be fed back in. This would cause the pump to run dry momentarily. Second I never install a submersible pump without using an external check valve. I have seen them right from the factory be bad. As far as the pressure slowly dropping then having a delay to come on is usually rust in the pipe leading to the pressure switch. The water can not get in and out fast enough to keep up, it seeps out. Bad pressure tank usually results in a quick on/off cycling. I can not remember what happens with too much air in it though. The pressure tank should be set at 2 psi lower than the switch cut in pressure with zero water pressure (30/50=28 psi, 20/40=18 psi)


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

Let me ad some more info: the well is 300 feet deep, 200 feet of that is water in a 6" casing.

Bill in this area I have never come across an external check valve, most wells in the area run from 100-300 feet.
*The part that is confusing is my pressure switch cycles without water running.* The changes I have made have improved the problem. so no leaks in the house or water turned on and the switch cycles between 40 and 60.
thanks for the help guys Steve


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

How do you know your not losing water? My experience is, that when a switch comes on something is happening. Water is going somewhere. Keep in mind if well tank is not set to 2psi less than cut on weird things will happen. This would not account for the switch coming on.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

is it on a pitless adapter? You migh have a leak coming off the o-ring connection or in the line between the well and the house. Can you hear any water in the well casing?


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

The air pressure is set 2psi below the cut on. I have looked in the well casing and there is not any water leaking from pitless adapter. I have followed the line looking for water coming out of the ground but I do not find any wet spots.
I have knocked on the tank and it feels full 3/4 of the way up. No water comes out of the air fill valve. Some still feel it is the pressure tank, what do you guys think. The cycling on and off happens in 30 second cycles. The pressure tank is at least 12 years old and is easier to replace than digging up the water line but I don't want to keep burning up my customers money. These symptoms are different then I have encountered before.
thanks steve


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## pipes (Jun 24, 2008)

The line from the pump to the tank has a leak or the check on the pump is hung up.

Break the line at the tank and air test it. Bubbles in the casing = break in drop or bad check , loss of air pressure and no visable signs = bad pipe from casing to house.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

id guess your leak is right at the swing joint next to the casing. The water is probably following the casing down rather than coming up to surface if you cant find any wet spots along the path of the line. Like the other guy said throw some air on it. on a bladder tank if its 3/4 full of water the tank is shot, that bladder, even with no air in it shouldn't let it get that full.


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## piercekiltoff (Jul 22, 2009)

1. Pressure tank needs air. If you can drain it of water with the pump off, and it still holds air pressure, then you know the tank is good - otherwise replace it with a tank that has 2x draw down as pump capacity. This means, if you have an 10 GPM pump, you need to put an 85 gallon tank in (as they have just over 20 gallons of draw down).

If your tank is cycling on a 30 second basis, and you have a 10 GPM pump, you're filling the tank with 5 gallons of water, then pumping 5 gallons out before the pressure comes back to the on point - this is way to little pumping for any submersible pump motor - if it's going to run, it should run for 1.5 to 2 minutes MINIMUM (exception: constant pressure systems).

2. You have a leak. If the switch is cycling without any water running intentionally - then it's going somewhere else. If you have to, install shut off valves to isolate the leak. I've seen irrigation systems running 10,000 gallons a day out of broken pipes, and you couldn't tell from the surface - the ground can suck up a lot of water - which is why wells work!

ALWAYS install an external check - I've seen water hammer back on the internal pump checks and close them to the point that the pump can't actually open them back up. Now, I know people will always tell me that "that's the way they all are around here" - but I challenge anyone to find a pump manufacturer who will recommend it. I'm also not a fan of poly pipe for drop pipe - we only use stainless steel couplings with schedule 120 PVC, or galvanized steel pipe on deep sets below 450 feet (I'd use stainless there if it were cost effective).


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Hey, just following up on this thread... althought the last two posters made remarks that'd cause me to want to debate their thoughts, it's splitting hairs and moot to the actual problem.

The one thing that there seems to be no question of is that there is a leak somewhere between the pump and the pressure switch*. Assuming that the switch is mounted on a tank tee at the pressure tank, then installing a check valve there (between the switch and the pump) will surely cure the symptom. But the problem remains and the earlier suggestion of pressure testing from that point to the pump should help uncover where the leak exists.

_*Should clarify as I may have incorrectly assumed that the shutoff to the bldg was in the closed position!_


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