# Plastic Toilet Bowl Bolts



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I "almost" used these tonight, just to try them and see how well they were. For a plumber like me that despises plastic products, I'll tell you why I bought them:


The supply house I deal with has been out of 5/16" johnni-bolts for weeks. Here's the pathetic comment I heard today that I could not believe my fellow plumbers would say, 


"It's too hard to cut through the 5/16" bolts."


*WTF?!?!?!*

*Is plumbing come down to this? *

So he showed me the plastic ones, don't even need to cut them off, the caps were deep enough that you put them in and done.

I had to replace a toilet with a American Standard Cadet 4 tonight and I could NOT bring myself to use those bolts. The guys at the supply house praised them up and down and said they could barely cut them with a hacksaw...

but I said, "I don't care about now, I care about down the road" and that ended the conversation as fast as it started. Plastic of any type under any strain is going to be pliable to begin with, over time get brittle and snap. 

I ended up using brass bolts, but using the long caps that I really like and most likely start using them instead of cutting the bolts. It just seemed disheartening to make a move like that and use something in that fashion knowing that just a few short years can cause problems for the customers. 

I prefer to be in the category of using products that you can pitch in your backyard, wait 40 years and dig it up, polish and put back to use. Something that's becoming a dieing fade it seems in the profession, real world realities.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I can't even imagine using plastic closet bolts.  The supply house here had stainless steel ones for a few weeks because the new guy ordered them. Talk about hard to cut with a tiny tim laying under the toilet! They got rid of them and went back to brass pretty quick.







Paul


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## Lee in Texas (Jun 24, 2009)

One of the local shops only carries brass-plated bolts because solid brass just doesn't sell. Ugh. Charge it to the customer and use the quality product.


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

I don't even like plastic bolts for toilet seats! I only use solid brass 5/16" closet bolts followed by blue locktite on the nuts for my school toilets setting and re-setting.. Learned this trick lasts the longest.:thumbsup:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I worked for a company that used plastic tee bolts with plastic flanges, and metal with metal. The plastic tee bolt will break before the plastic flange.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> I worked for a company that used plastic tee bolts with plastic flanges, and metal with metal. The plastic tee bolt will break before the plastic flange.


I wouldn't use either...
My PVC closet flanges have stainless steel rings and my bolts are 5/16 brass...:thumbup:


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

plumb4fun said:


> I don't even like plastic bolts for toilet seats! I only use solid brass 5/16" closet bolts followed by blue locktite on the nuts for my school toilets setting and re-setting.. Learned this trick lasts the longest.:thumbsup:


The Bemis 2155 open front no lid seat now has plastic nuts for the hinges. First one I put on I stripped them out. What a piece of junk.


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## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

Colgar said:


> The Bemis 2155 open front no lid seat now has plastic nuts for the hinges. First one I put on I stripped them out. What a piece of junk.


 
that's why I carry a good assortment of nuts and bolts on my truck. I really don't like to use plastic if I don't HAVE to (and there aren't very many situations that you HAVE to use plastic.)


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I like using setfast closet bolts. Soild brass, 5/16 and you never need to cut them. The only downside is the heads are too fat to fit in some CI flanges.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I prefer to be in the category of using products that you can pitch in your backyard, wait 40 years and dig it up, polish and put back to use. Something that's becoming a dieing fade it seems in the profession, real world realities.


You can bury plastic closet bolts in your backyard and dig them up a hundred years later and they would be plastic closet bolts.


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

plastic closet bolts? :furious: 5/16 brass jonni-bolts is how i roll! :thumbup:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

pauliplumber said:


> I like using setfast closet bolts. Soild brass, 5/16 and you never need to cut them. The only downside is the heads are too fat to fit in some CI flanges.


 I still can't get these . Where do you get yours ?


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I get them from the local plumbing supply. I would think you could find them online? After you use these a few times you won't wanna use anything else.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

pauliplumber said:


> I get them from the local plumbing supply. I would think you could find them online? After you use these a few times you won't wanna use anything else.


 What's so special ??


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I seen them once and thought they were crap. They won't corrode. COOL! But they break easier then brass, and didn't seem to tighten down as nicely. Maybe its was just the brand.


I use solid brass closet bolts at this time.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Cal said:


> What's so special ??


Nothing other than you won't have to cut closet bolts again. If your one of those plumbers that doesn't like cutting them, or just likes saving a little time without compromising quality, I highly recomend them.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I had a couple guys wrecking out toilets on Monday that used plastic johnny bolts. They loved them. They just grabbed the toilets and yanked em up. Let's see ya do that with brass bolts. 

You gotta think about ease of removal guys.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Closet bolts are a perfect example of a product that doesn't need to be improved on, in my mind. A solid brass closet bolt is about as good as it gets and even though I value my time I'm not worried about the extra 90 seconds it takes to cut a pair of brass bolts with a mini hacksaw. I really don't see any benefit to "improving" on what already exists. 





Paul


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

A good squeeze on a set of lineman's pliers scores them deep enough to snap right off.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

How about a nice brass NUT to go with them ,,, i get tired of keeping old rusted nut CRAP out of grout !!!


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I use brass ones. I double nut them to the flange, and then, i break the bastards off with a nut driver. forget cutting them down, id rather just break the ***** off.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> A good squeeze on a set of lineman's pliers scores them deep enough to snap right off.


Yea but it kinda screws the guy trying to take the toilet off someday down the road with the buggered up threads on the end....:whistling2:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Yea but it kinda screws the guy trying to take the toilet off someday down the road with the buggered up threads on the end....:whistling2:



Not if they are bolted to the flange properly, they will screw right off of the cut threads. Like all thread rod.


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> A good squeeze on a set of lineman's pliers scores them deep enough to snap right off.


Just like a guy that works for me, used to do. 

If he does it again I'll fire him! :furious:

You better hope your not called out to remove the toilet for any reason, cuz it's a ***** getting that nut off.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Not if they are bolted to the flange properly, they will screw right off of the cut threads. Like all thread rod.


If a guy is cutting the ends off with lineman's pliers instead of sawing them off do you really think they got bolted down right?:whistling2:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You can bury plastic closet bolts in your backyard and dig them up a hundred years later and they would be plastic closet bolts.


And the first chance you go to tighten the nut it's going to snap right off in your hand...

not with brass.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

service guy said:


> I seen them once and thought they were crap. They won't corrode. COOL! But they break easier then brass, and didn't seem to *tighten down as nicely*. Maybe its was just the brand.
> 
> 
> I use solid brass closet bolts at this time.




Significantly coarser thread on the plastic one.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Cal said:


> I still can't get these . Where do you get yours ?


 
The rep/owner gave me a set I haven't used yet, but he also gave me a johnni-bar that makes removing closet bolts easier when the bolt starts to spin.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The rep/owner gave me a set I haven't used yet, but he also gave me a johnni-bar that makes removing closet bolts easier when the bolt starts to spin.


Really ,,,, now THAT would find a place in my Veto Pro Pac :thumbup:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

They are not legal under the IPC or the UPC


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I have never used, or even seen the plastic bolts. I don't even think home cheapo sells them here.


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

Not trying to draw heat, lol but I have to say I agreed 110% with all of these statements until I was forced to use them. There were many fights and guys with 20 years exp refusing to use them but the co. pushed for it. YES ~ if your wondering quite a few toilets were "accidently dmged" when trying to install.

BUT, I have to say after you get used to them you can work them. I have sanpped a plastic flange before the bolt (terrifed I thought I broke the china) 

Anyway- the only advice I can give is don't use them if your not comfortable. But if your going to use them don't even begin to think they will draw down like brass, if the toilets isn't flat on the ground or shimmed probally the nut will strip or you will crack something :blink:


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

Sorry forgot to mention. As for our code it calls for a bolts be made of a non corrosive material, so plastic works


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Cal said:


> Really ,,,, now THAT would find a place in my Veto Pro Pac :thumbup:


I've got one. It's called the Johni-bar. I love it. It's in my CLC brand Veto knockoff.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Cal said:


> I still can't get these . Where do you get yours ?





Cal said:


> How about a nice brass NUT to go with them ,,, i get tired of keeping old rusted nut CRAP out of grout !!!


Get them both at HD.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The rep/owner gave me a set I haven't used yet, but he also gave me a johnni-bar that makes removing closet bolts easier when the bolt starts to spin.


Put a nut driver in the drill and spin the bolt while placing a sawzall blade under the nut. The spinning nut will cut itself right off. btw, don't move the blade, just let rotation do the cutting for you.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)




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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Now I'm sure the use of that small knipex locking channel locks will raise eyebrows like, "I can't believe you don't use a crescent, or proper nut driver, socket" in regards to that nut removal.

Well, I've used everything in regards to nut removal over the years and I've simplified what I carry in my bag to get the job done.

Most time those nuts are corroded, now you've jammed your socket onto the nut or it'll wipe out the machined edges needed to turn and remove.

The pliers you see is the strongest set of pliers I've ever owned. I don't think it's even 6" long and has a wide set of jaws to grab stuff where you normally can't get anything else. I have 2 other larger sized ones as well. 

The video leaves you with more questions than answers, intentional. :laughing:

That's why the banner strikes the motion to look right, where I wrote out in detail how it works, because narration isn't my best talent these days. :blink:

I need to find a camera with lighting built into the video taping...probably would go through even more batteries. :furious:


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*duck*

love my knips. breid............:rockon:


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Thank johni-bar looks pretty cool. were did you get it?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Click on this link
http://www.rjstechllc.com/


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## Jonny_H (Dec 18, 2009)

wow.. talk bout a hard sell.

I've never seen those plastic bolts before, but I would have to laugh if I did.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

*sigh* Where else in the world would "plastic closet bolts" become such a hot topic. :thumbup:

In '92 the mgr of a local supply house gave me a set of Sioux Chief plastic closet bolts to try. I've always preferred the solid brass bolts, nuts AND washers so they rolled around in my van for some time until I decided to use them in my own house in the commode in the basement. Some years later (around 2000 I think) I pulled the toilet to do some wallboard and flooring and I was mildly surprised at how well the thing came up even though I'd originally cut the bolts down by scoring a mark and then snapping the ends off (by twisting back and forth) with a set of 10" linesmans pliers.

When it came time to reset the bowl I used the same cut down bolts. That WC is still in use and holding well! I STILL prefer the solid brass but I have to say that using plastic bolts again won't make me hang my head in shame.

*Cautionary note*: that all being said, I've seen plastic bolts that I wouldn't use to hold down a cup and saucer. Some are complete crap and can't even be relied on to squeeze down the wax on a 90° day!


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Miguel said:


> *sigh* Where else in the world would "plastic closet bolts" become such a hot topic. :thumbup:
> 
> In '92 the mgr of a local supply house gave me a set of Sioux Chief plastic closet bolts to try. I've always preferred the solid brass bolts, nuts AND washers so they rolled around in my van for some time until I decided to use them in my own house in the commode in the basement. Some years later (around 2000 I think) I pulled the toilet to do some wallboard and flooring and I was mildly surprised at how well the thing came up even though I'd originally cut the bolts down by scoring a mark and then snapping the ends off (by twisting back and forth) with a set of 10" linesmans pliers.
> 
> ...


 
Ive installed hundreds of sioux chief plastic tee bolts in crumy apts in atlanta, we also used plastic toilet flanges that glued inside 3" pipe and horned wax rings. We secured the flanges with sheetrock screws. :laughing:
Never had any call backs for em.....


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Here's a crazy statistic: 


My video, which I rate at a D for content has 124 views and gaining, been on youtube for not even 5 days. 

The guy who makes the Johni-Bar has a video on youtube, been up since August 18th 2009 and has 472 views. 


His video blows mine right out of the water. Far better video. 

It's all about how the internet works folks. It is a series of pipes and tubes, just like plumbing. Figure it out and you'll figure out the *code*.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Yours probably got alot of traffic from here and his didn't.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Plumber Jim said:


> Yours probably got alot of traffic from here and his didn't.


 
Only 26 views off this site...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Dunbar,
You mean this video?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Yes. A far better video and easier to see. 

That and it seems like there is sound effects that are not matching the actual which makes it more of a good video...because anyone who tries to get the tools to make those sounds probably cannot do it.


I tried...couldn't get it to happen.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

DUNBAR FOLLOWS THROUGH, HE SHOOTS! 





 




HE SCORES! 



*WHOOOOOOOOOSH!!!! *

More light this time, old bolt, perfect situation where the tool did its job flawlessly.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> DUNBAR FOLLOWS THROUGH, HE SHOOTS!
> 
> HE SCORES!


Looks like a handy tool for sure, for those occasional loosey goosey T-bolts. I may just order one.

For your next movie, turn that HUGE fan off before recording! :laughing:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm pretty sure most people on th PZ could make their own johnny bar in about 15 minutes....


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Airgap said:


> I'm pretty sure most people on th PZ could make their own johnny bar in about 15 minutes....


I could, but I hate to do any work once the van backs into the driveway.:whistling2:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

futz said:


> Looks like a handy tool for sure, for those occasional loosey goosey T-bolts. I may just order one.
> 
> For your next movie, *turn that HUGE fan off before recording!* :laughing:


 

It hides the heavy breathing. :blink::nerd:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

jjbex said:


> I could, but I hate to do any work once the van backs into the driveway.:whistling2:


 Make it in the customers driveway and charge them for a new ball valve to replace the handle you just used....:thumbup:


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## KensicoPlumb (Feb 24, 2010)

Airgap said:


> I'm pretty sure most people on th PZ could make their own johnny bar in about 15 minutes....



Its not a fork, it has hacksaw like teeth on one side. The teeth are directional and jam up the bolt. The more the bolt try's to spin the more it locks up just like a wrench. They run about 8 bucks so at that price I cant see making you own. 

I got one for each of my guys and they love them. A great tool.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

8 bucks? Where can I order one?


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

KensicoPlumb said:


> Its not a fork, it has hacksaw like teeth on one side. The teeth are directional and jam up the bolt. The more the bolt try's to spin the more it locks up just like a wrench. They run about 8 bucks so at that price I cant see making you own.
> 
> I got one for each of my guys and they love them. A great tool.


I actually saw the teeth on it in the other post....
I'm still going to make my own before I pay 8 bucks for one....If I ever feel like I really need one...:thumbsup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Airgap said:


> I actually saw the teeth on it in the other post....
> I'm still going to make my own before I pay 8 bucks for one....If I ever feel like I really need one...:thumbsup:


 Thats one of the tools that you dont hafta have but people seem to have tons of stuff like that on their truck. Then they claim they need a bigger truck:yes: Why to pack more **** in there you dont need but just want? Not me brother:thumbsup: From your posts,I say you dont need one and never will.:thumbsup:


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## KensicoPlumb (Feb 24, 2010)

pauliplumber said:


> 8 bucks? Where can I order one?


The web site list Westway Sales as the rep in TX. They have a toll free number, 800-822-9514. They can tell what suppliers have them. 

I also use there Setfast closet bolts . They have a Youtube video clip of them on there web site.

http://www.rjstechllc.com


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Thats one of the tools that you dont hafta have but people seem to have tons of stuff like that on their truck. Then they claim they need a bigger truck:yes: Why to pack more **** in there you dont need but just want? Not me brother:thumbsup: From your posts,I say you dont need one and never will.:thumbsup:


 I would never be able to find it anyway....:furious:


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## SummPlumb (Feb 19, 2010)

Plastic bolts are dominant here. Here is why I use them for new installations. 

--Easy to cut.
--Easy to remove if needed.
--Cheaper
--Stronger than metal
--Will not rust

I only use them if the floor is perfectly level and the flange is new. I do not let new helpers use them b/c they will break the flange or the commode. They are harder to judge when to stop tightening.

So don't knock them till you try them.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

pauliplumber said:


> 8 bucks? Where can I order one?


Pauli...

I'll make you one tomorrow, and send it to ya... 

7 bucks...you pay shipping....:jester:


I take PayPal....


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

SummPlumb said:


> Plastic bolts are dominant here. Here is why I use them for new installations.
> 
> --Easy to cut.
> --Easy to remove if needed.
> ...


Stronger than metal? Hmmmmm........ For some reason I think 5/16 solid brass bolts would be a little stronger.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Airgap said:


> Pauli...
> 
> I'll make you one tomorrow, and send it to ya...
> 
> ...


Make one and post a pic, gotta have the teeth.....I think the metal in a ballvalve handle would be too soft. I know I would charge myself alot more than $8 to make one :laughing:. If that tool is 1/2 the quality of the setfast bolts they make, it might be worth it.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

pauliplumber said:


> Make one and post a pic, gotta have the teeth.....I think the metal in a ballvalve handle would be too soft. I know I would charge myself alot more than $8 to make one :laughing:. If that tool is 1/2 the quality of the setfast bolts they make, it might be worth it.


Will do...Look for it on the morrow...:thumbsup:


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## fhrace (Sep 7, 2009)

I thought they were made out of nylon. I use them and love them. The souix chief website says they are rated for 1,100 lbs of tensile strength per bolt.


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## SummPlumb (Feb 19, 2010)

pauliplumber said:


> Stronger than metal? Hmmmmm........ For some reason I think 5/16 solid brass bolts would be a little stronger.



I have broken many toilets and flanges with these bolts. They have their place in the plumbing field. They are not for all commodes.:2guns:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SummPlumb said:


> I have broken many toilets and flanges with these bolts. They have their place in the plumbing field. They are not for all commodes.:2guns:


 You kinda sacrificed yourself on this post,how many toilets and flanges have you broke with dem bolts?:blink:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)




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## KensicoPlumb (Feb 24, 2010)

fhrace said:


> I thought they were made out of nylon. I use them and love them. The souix chief website says they are rated for 1,100 lbs of tensile strength per bolt.



While they may just be strong enough, 5/16" brass bolts are 4 times stronger than the nylon bolts. I have a spec sheet here some where that list testing results. They found that the nylon bolts (nylon + glass I think) not only snap but they stretch after time. 

I used the nylon bolts a couple of time with no problem but I found my self going easy on them in fear they would snap. Once I learned they can stretch I stay away from them. I don't want to get called back for a loose toilet because I wanted to save a $1.50.


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## fhrace (Sep 7, 2009)

Its one of those things you just have to get the feel for. Never had an issue with callbacks.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Airgap said:


> View attachment 5082


Nice job Airgap! The only problem you might have with yours is most ballvalve handles are thicker than the johnnibar tool, it needs to be as thin as possible to be used as intended. Also most ballvalve handles are made of a soft metal, we've all bent them a little when in a tight spot. 

Funny thing is this morning I changed a toilet seal and could have used one. I used a small flat bar, put some tention on the bolt between the metal and plastic washer, and was able to loosen it that way. I think for the price and the fact that I won't need a box truck to carry one ( love ya TM:laughing, I might try one. I would guess about 1 out of every 15-20 toilets it would come in handy. Another use might be for when when changing toilet guts, keeping the tank bolts from spinning. of course there's other ways of keeping the bolts from spinning, but if that tool works well, it might be the easiest way.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

The first thing I did was grind it down to make it thinner. I really couldn't get the pic to come out very good. 

I know what you're saying about the softness of the metal, but I'd say they're using the same grade of steel on that jonny bar. I could be wrong though. 

I really wanted to make one anyway... another plumber came in while I was finishing the teeth, and I ended up giving it to him.

I'll post the reviews.:thumbsup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I just BOUNCED 60 pounds of weight hanging from a bicycle lock cable held together with one of those sioux chief nylon closet bolts. Didn't phase it......i will add more weight and report back.


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## Mr Slate (Feb 7, 2010)

I use the sioux chief nylon bolts in places I know I will be pulling the WC again and dont want to deal with the cheap brass plated bolts and /or nuts being rusted from the exposure to the elements. I work in a lot of nursing homes and public restrooms. I prefer to use brass but the local supply house keeps switching lines tryin to keep cost down to compete with bigbox I never know what line of supplys / angle stops/etc they got a deal on this month.Its hard to do quality work with subpar materials and its only gettin worse. Made in the USA used to be the thing now its Packaged in the USA Crapity Chinese/Third world country parts


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Mr Slate said:


> I use the sioux chief nylon bolts in places I know I will be pulling the WC again and dont want to deal with the cheap brass plated bolts and /or nuts being rusted from the exposure to the elements. I work in a lot of nursing homes and public restrooms. I prefer to use brass but the local supply house keeps switching lines tryin to keep cost down to compete with bigbox I never know what line of supplys / angle stops/etc they got a deal on this month.Its hard to do quality work with subpar materials and its only gettin worse. Made in the USA used to be the thing now its Packaged in the USA Crapity Chinese/Third world country parts


 Thats why I try to stock the basic essentials that I like to use, and is top quality, cuz the supply houses are out of stock, when you need item the most or decided to try a chit product that month. Personally, I buy 5/16 johnny bolts from Wolverine Brass 500 at a time, which lasts me 2yrs or more, I can't imagine buying onesies twosies of these at supply house. Same thing with supply tubes, supply valves, {always Brass Craft} wax rings, traps tail pieces, pvc ftgs ect....for your everyday needs.
I bought 6 cases of 60 supply valves, that will last me about a yr, maybe.
Rick, on the other hand, installs more than that in 1 day, amazing, heck I'm happy to put that many on my stock shelf in one day:yes:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Haven't tried the nylon bolt, but IMO you can do all the testing you want, but the real test is longevity. You can put as much weight or torque on them as you want, but with that constant pressure, will it snap an hr after you leave, a day after, week after, & so on {the toilet or the bolt}? 5/16 brass johnny bolts is king. Takes me less than 30 sec to cut both bolts off. What you gonna save with nylon, 15 sec? I don't install that many toilets either, that I gotta worry about taking them back out, for some reason, in the near future. In fact, I try to cut the bolt, only about 1/2 way through, & as close to the top of nut as possible, then break it off, so it distorts the threads a little, & then nut cannot loosen easily.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Hang 60 pounds off of a plastic bolt, and a 1/4" brass bolt, side by side.

Leave them there for a while. 

Which one will fail first?

Better yet, which one will fail at all?


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

let me explain, you can give 10 plumber helpers plastic tee bolts and they wont break 1 bowl or plastic toilet flange, if you gave them metal tee bolts you will have alot of broken china and plastic flanges.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

they are like pex and sharkbites, a monkey can install it and not screw up anything,


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> let me explain, you can give 10 plumber helpers plastic tee bolts and they wont break 1 bowl or plastic toilet flange, if you gave them metal tee bolts you will have alot of broken china and plastic flanges.


 
So, no one ever taught you the proper way to install a water closet, using a quality product? You never broke anything?

That statement is assinine. 

Just how in the hell are apprentices supposed to learn the proper way to do things?

BTW, a helper is not supposed to be setting WC's.

Edit. I just read my post, and it could be interpreted different than I intended. I meant to say that someone took the time to teach you how to install a water closet, and they probably used brass bolts. No disrespect intended.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I use 5/16 brass closet bolts and nothing else... Ever... Period...

Oh and for some reason the only china I break is old stuff flying out of the back of my truck on a high arcing trajectory into the dumpster...

Gawd I Love To Do That! :thumbup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Redwood said:


> I use 5/16 brass closet bolts and nothing else... Ever... Period...
> 
> Oh and for some reason the only china I break is old stuff flying out of the back of my truck on a high arcing trajectory into the dumpster...
> 
> Gawd I Love To Do That! :thumbup:


 I use 1/4" wolverine brass bolts. I have alot of old tank lids...bout time to ebay them again.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Man, I had so many tank lids I thought I was going mad. I threw them all out except for about ten colored lids to old toilets, then six months later I threw them out too. Then I needed that harvest gold lid for a 1962 American Standard. Go figure right.

and to stay on subject, I used about a dozen of the plastic bolts with no problems. Mostly commercial resets. They are still there.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I have alot of old tank lids...bout time to ebay them again.





ChrisConnor said:


> Man, I had so many tank lids I thought I was going mad. I threw them all out except for about ten colored lids to old toilets, then six months later I threw them out too. Then I needed that harvest gold lid for a 1962 American Standard. Go figure right.


I sell them a new toilet and install it with 5/16" brass closet bolts...:laughing:


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## PlumbingTheCape (Mar 1, 2010)

Plastic is for DIY'ers


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## chrissmith (Mar 1, 2010)

*No trouble*

I have used plenty of plastic closet bolts with no problems as yet. They are far easier to cut, they're cheaper and they seem as strong as the next weakest link i.e.,flange or china bowl. I'm all for solid brass but sometimes you don't know if your getting plated or not and if that's the case you're selling your customer aproblem down the road for sure.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> So, no one ever taught you the proper way to install a water closet, using a quality product? You never broke anything? I was taught that if a Plastic Toilet Flange was used then Plastic Tee Bolts should be used ,, metal flange metal bolts :thumbsup:
> 
> That statement is assinine. asinine? not at all, its the truth :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Imagine this , a Apt complex with 300 toilets to be installed, all the flanges are all PVC, the mexicans ooops i mean plumbin helpers used plastic tee bolts, how many bowls and flanges do you think they broke? Now add metal to the picture, how many do you think they would break? 

I agree that if you use ALL PVC flanges and Plastic Tee Bolts your very cheap. But ive worked for companys that are extreemly cheap and thats how they roll. These products are out and code approves them, so bashin folks is asinine, no disrespect intended.

What-if i told you I can install PVC flanges and Plastic tee bolt and not have a call back, well i can , is there somthing to be said about that.

BTW , If im installing the flange its going to be SS and the tee bolts will be 5/16 brass.:thumbsup:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> Imagine this , a Apt complex with 300 toilets to be installed, all the flanges are all PVC, the mexicans ooops i mean plumbin helpers used plastic tee bolts, how many bowls and flanges do you think they broke? Now add metal to the picture, how many do you think they would break?
> 
> I agree that if you use ALL PVC flanges and Plastic Tee Bolts your very cheap. But ive worked for companys that are extreemly cheap and thats how they roll. These products are out and code approves them, so bashin folks is asinine, no disrespect intended.
> 
> ...


 Fair enough:thumbsup:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*I gotta revelation coming*

And it is BAD bad bad. :whistling2:


I have sinned...and it feels too good to maybe not stop either. Hence the thread title. :blink::no:



I'm having trouble with my hand as of late, and I follow simplicity in design that I haven't tried before. 


Somebody stop this sinner!!!! 



EDIT:


Actually I'm mixing 2 products together to keep from cutting bolts...since I usually never have a dremel or any other tool to cut bolts.

This way, myself or the next guy can appreciate the design without cussing a blue streak to remove the stool.


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

i have to say i have never used a set.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I am in the Philippines on vacay, and I haven't seen any toilet bolts yet. The toilets are grouted or mortared in place.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

jjbex said:


> I am in the Philippines on vacay, and I haven't seen any toilet bolts yet. The toilets are grouted or mortared in place.


Any wolverine brass in the Phillipines :laughing: ?

Stop lookin at the plumbing and enjoy your vacation :thumbsup:. (I do the same thing BTW)


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Any wolverine brass in the Phillipines :laughing: ?
> 
> Stop lookin at the plumbing and enjoy your vacation :thumbsup:. (I do the same thing BTW)


The toilets must be made by Wolverine....wolverine never breaks so they grout them in.:laughing:


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

if they made the brass bolts with the same no spin design as the nylon ones i'd be on em like stink on s#@t. I don't mind cutting off the brass, i just really like the the nylon ones cannot spin once they are locked into the flange. Plus we've been using them for 4 years with no problems, granted i shim and level toilets like they're supposed to be, not just crank the bolts till the wiggle goes away.


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

Who makes the nylon T-Bolts? I want them.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

we get em from Sioux chief i believe


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Some of you guys talked me into trying them there space age plastic bolts,

on about my sixth crapper I thought I cracked the collar but it was the bolt,

I was somewhat pissed I had to start over. Not impressed


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

plastic t-bolt on a plastic floor flange makes sense to me.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree. If you are pulling those bolts hard enogh to snap, the flange is going to snap before the bolt does. Even so, I'll stick to my solid 5/16" brass bolts, doubled nutted with brass washer :thumbsup:.



SPH said:


> plastic t-bolt on a plastic floor flange makes sense to me.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

KCplumber said:


> Some of you guys talked me into trying them there space age plastic bolts,
> 
> on about my sixth crapper I thought I cracked the collar but it was the bolt,
> 
> I was somewhat pissed I had to start over. Not impressed


I was given about 12 sets of those plastic sioux chief closet bolts and conducted a few tests. Some of them are strong and some of them are weak. Inconsistant is my final conclusion. 

They should have molded a steel pin into those bolts and then it would good but then they wouldn't be so inexpensive.

!/4" solid brass bolts work fine for me and I cut them off with klien linesman pliers. I cant recall ever having a bolt break or rot away.

Befo the kids start screaming "you cant do that"...let it be known it takes a man to cut those bolts with side cutters.


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