# What brand is this, new one to me???



## kunder3006 (May 26, 2011)

Older 70ish model house a first for me.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

kunder3006 said:


> Older 70ish model house a first for me.


Looks like universal rundle. They made some faucets for Sears so it could be branded Sears.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Time for MOENTROL!!


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Time for MOENTROL!!


The valve is roughed in too close to the spout so looks like tile work/new surround. I doubt a remodel plate would work in that situation.

But yes I would offer replacement.


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## kunder3006 (May 26, 2011)

Well gonna do whole tub valve change out, three handle and try to save tile, why I don't know, kind of outdated to me but my taste is my taste. Thanks for the help all.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

kunder3006 said:


> Well gonna do whole tub valve change out, three handle and try to save tile, why I don't know, kind of outdated to me but my taste is my taste. Thanks for the help all.


You going to install a stand alone pressure balance unit to go along with the new three valve faucet?


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

kunder3006 said:


> Well gonna do whole tub valve change out, three handle and try to save tile, why I don't know, kind of outdated to me but my taste is my taste. Thanks for the help all.


You going to install a stand alone pressure balance unit with the new three valve?


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## kunder3006 (May 26, 2011)

She went and picked up tub faucet, this is a older farm house she does not want to do nothing fancy, just a plan one I can bet you, she is an older customer of mine so I work with her.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

kunder3006 said:


> She went and picked up tub faucet, this is a older farm house she does not want to do nothing fancy, just a plan one I can bet you, she is an older customer of mine so I work with her.


When you install a non pressure balanced faucet for a tub/shower you should install a separate stand alone pressure balance unit. This will protect against chill/scald during pressure fluctuations. She may not live in the house longer than your work will be installed. Check with your local plumbing inspector about it.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

A thermostatic mixing valve for a residential shower ??? I ain't never seen that. Even more so on a small house. The house needs no 140 deg water so the heater should be set at 110. But we all know that no ones heater is set that low Install valve and if ur worried turn her heater down to 110 if she wants it hotter. Show her what knob to turn and put on invoice you set the temp at 110. You only install a thermo mixing valve when the building requires 140 water for dish sanitizing or another use. If you installing them and a tub/shower faucet in new ressy showers your ripping off the home owner. And by that idea ud need to temper water at all fixtures bibbs. Ect ect ect. Wtf.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> A thermostatic mixing valve for a residential shower ??? I ain't never seen that. Even more so on a small house. The house needs no 140 deg water so the heater should be set at 110. But we all know that no ones heater is set that low Install valve and if ur worried turn her heater down to 110 if she wants it hotter. Show her what knob to turn and put on invoice you set the temp at 110. You only install a thermo mixing valve when the building requires 140 water for dish sanitizing or another use. If you installing them and a tub/shower faucet in new ressy showers your ripping off the home owner. And by that idea ud need to temper water at all fixtures bibbs. Ect ect ect. Wtf.


I think your confusing a thermomixer with a stand alone pressure balance valve.

What I'm talking about only balances the hot and cold pressures so the temp doesn't fluctuate because of pressure imbalances in the system.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Controlling pressure won't control temp a 100%. It may effect it some but to control temp u need a thermo mixing valve


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

thermal mixing valves are required where the valve is not pressure balanced, and a fixture that your whole body would be affected by. Showers, tubs, garden tubs, ect. I think moen is working on a roman tub valve that will be pressure balanced, whirlpool tubs suck enough as it is to install with concrete bedding and all, so a pressure balanced valve would be a bit of a time saver. Keep in mind im discussing a roman tub valve here. I know some installs where a simple posi temp and be put in the wall, but that looks like hot garbage to me.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Controlling pressure won't control temp a 100%. It may effect it some but to control temp u need a thermo mixing valve


In an existing home we can use a 3 valve tub and shower valve as a replacement if we install a pressure balance valve.

Same thing for a new house with a two valve roman tub valve with a hand shower. Stand alone pressure balance valve must be installed and hot water limited by thermostat of water heater. That's what the inspector wants right now from us. I like more protection myself to avoid an accident.

I agree a tempering valve at the water heater would be the best. Tankless water heaters also seem to be more accurate and dependable than conventional thermostats on tank heaters,gas or electric.

Nothing is 100%.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Never seen it or heard of it around here


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Controlling pressure won't control temp a 100%. It may effect it some but to control temp u need a thermo mixing valve


He's talking about a tempera valve. It's an external balancer to prevent scalding when a toilet is flushed. You use them in situations where your tub/shower valve aren't pressure balanced like a 3 handle, old moen, or a 2 handle etc. It's code that bath tubs and showers have them. Separate from that is the scald guard setting on a shower valve that prevents the handle from turning to full hot. That is used to make sure the faucet is only capable of turning to 110*.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Well I haven't heard that code down here. And if the water heater is set at 110 then even if the cold to the valve is shut off its not gonna scald you But we know heaters are set higher then that. So I can see ur point but if you want to control temp why not put a thermostatic mixing shower valve in and be done with it ???


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Well I haven't heard that code down here. And if the water heater is set at 110 then even if the cold to the valve is shut off its not gonna scald you But we know heaters are set higher then that. So I can see ur point but if you want to control temp why not put a thermostatic mixing shower valve in and be done with it ???


Thermostatic mixers are not required,even in new construction and neither is a tempering valve.

All that is required is pressure balancing and a means to limit temp on new construction. The limiting device relies that the water heater temp is not excessive.

A balancing valve is to keep pressure changes from burning you or CHILLING you. If hot pressure/volume taken away and 45 degree water hits you your reaction to that could cause you to fall. Vise versa with the hot.


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

Up in nh thats all we put in. Im pretty sure code states all tub shower valves must be pressure balancing and anti scald. As well at 130 at kitchen sink and 120 at the shower i always set my kitchen at 125 and showers 115


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

All the new construction houses we put a honeywell mixing valve at the water heater then set the tub shower units to code


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

budders said:


> Up in nh thats all we put in. Im pretty sure code states all tub shower valves must be pressure balancing and anti scald. As well at 130 at kitchen sink and 120 at the shower i always set my kitchen at 125 and showers 115


A thermostatic valve has means of detecting temp and pressure and can compensate for both.

A pressure balanced shower valve with temp limit can compensate for pressure but does not have thermostatic means to compensate for temperature. It usually limits handle rotation to limit the amount of hot water that will flow through the valve.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

That's why a thermostatic mixing valve is better


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

budders said:


> All the new construction houses we put a honeywell mixing valve at the water heater then set the tub shower units to code


That's the best method IMO.

It allows a higher water heater thermostat setting to prevent bacteria problems in the water heater and prevents scald injuries.


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

Olemissplumber said:


> A thermostatic valve has means of detecting temp and pressure and can compensate for both.
> 
> A pressure balanced shower valve with temp limit can compensate for pressure but does not have thermostatic means to compensate for temperature. It usually limits handle rotation to limit the amount of hot water that will flow through the valve.


Ahh thats what it is pressure balce with a limiter on the handle


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

Right we max our the temp on the w/h and regulate the temp through the mixing valve the. Limit the handle and check temp at tub


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Olemissplumber said:


> That's the best method IMO.
> 
> It allows a higher water heater thermostat setting to prevent bacteria problems in the water heater and prevents scald injuries.


It also essentially gives you more available hot water from the tank because it's mixing more cold water to get to a desirable temp.


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

pink 4 inch tile, with 2 inch bullnose trim, (usually black) is from the 50's and early 60's.


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