# cast iron,pvc and fernco question



## sjaquay (Jan 13, 2013)

ill describe as best i can. i have a 3" pvc branch line stuffed into a 4" cast iron hub, previously done, not by us. it was sealed with concrete and now the "seal" is leaking. obviously the best thing to do is cut it all out and redo it all in pvc, but its a home warranty call and we are allowed $150 to fix this. i was thinking take out all the concrete and do a poured lead joint OR stretch a fernco over the cast iron on one side and over the pvc on other. my boss looked on fernco website and said he wants us to clean out the concrete and put a fernco donut inside the hub and put the pvc inside the donut. several of us think the donut will not seal proper and one of us seems to think its not allowed....any thoughts on the donut or how you would do this? remember, repair as cheap as possible.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

How bout a 4X3 fernco?


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Easy way , would be to pour the lead joint


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Cast cutters ? If so why not cut the cast instead of breaking out the concrete. 4" fernco with a 4x3 bushing. Or break out the concrete and fernco with a bushing.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Never mind. I didn't read hub. I was thinking pipe... is it a pipe hub or fitting hub ?


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## sjaquay (Jan 13, 2013)

the cast iron is actually a sani tee, the entire set up is wrong, ill take pic if they send me out again. theres a "T" on its side, schedule 80,gray, pvc from tub into "T" on its side, its just bad....the 3"pvc goes into the sani tee hub...


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Yes. Its sounding like you have a few options. Lead, donut, or tell em your not doing it for $150.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Even though there's not much money I'd get rid of the t. But donut should seal. I use them no problem. Quicker to pour lead.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

4x3 bushing on the 3" plastic pipe, 4" titeseal gasket in the hub, blackseal lube/adhesive, restrain if necessary until the blackseal sets...done.

or 

4x3 bush reamed out so it can slide up 3" far enough to give you something for a 4" concrete x CI/PVC fernco to grab. Concrete side goes over soil pipe hub.


Option #2 is extremely hackish, but $150.00 for this repair is insane :yes:

You ought to look for a better shop to work out of, brother.


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

dclarke said:


> Yes. Its sounding like you have a few options. Lead, donut, or tell em your not doing it for $150.


Yes, especially the Not doing it for $150 part.


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## sjaquay (Jan 13, 2013)

johnlewismcleod said:


> 4x3 bushing on the 3" plastic pipe, 4" titeseal gasket in the hub, blackseal lube/adhesive, restrain if necessary until the blackseal sets...done.
> 
> or
> 
> ...


its actually a fantastic co to work for, just we deal with home warranties and are on flat rate with one company that only pays us $150 for each and every job we do, we do alot of quick jobs for them but they also bang us on ones like this, but at this slow time of year in this area, at least its work and i get paid by the hour, not the job. its the co losing money on this, not me but im not the type that only cares about the pay check, they do take good care of me, so i in turn try to return the favor.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

sjaquay said:


> its actually a fantastic co to work for, just we deal with home warranties and are on flat rate with one company that only pays us $150 for each and every job we do, we do alot of quick jobs for them but they also bang us on ones like this, but at this slow time of year in this area, at least its work and i get paid by the hour, not the job. its the co losing money on this, not me but im not the type that only cares about the pay check, they do take good care of me, so i in turn try to return the favor.


I'll consider myself chastised.

It's commendable to stand by your shop and get it done as it comes in. 

$150 seems crazy to me for that because the price forces it to be a hack repair, but your shop owner must have a good reason for it and it's not ours to question why, I suppose.


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

there's a special gasket for sticking PVC and cast iron no hub into an older CI hub. It's called an EZ-tite gasket. 
I would use one of those with a short piece of 4" PVC then a 4X3 PVC coupling. or... get a regular SV gasket with a short piece of cast then a 4" CI X 3" PL mission band.


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## sjaquay (Jan 13, 2013)

Rando said:


> there's a special gasket for sticking PVC and cast iron no hub into an older CI hub. It's called an EZ-tite gasket.
> I would use one of those with a short piece of 4" PVC then a 4X3 PVC coupling. or... get a regular SV gasket with a short piece of cast then a 4" CI X 3" PL mission band.


thanks, ill look for the EZ-tite.....:thumbsup:


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

If it was me i'll put in a 4 x 3" soil adapter in to properly connect it:yes:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

130 PLUMBER said:


> If it was me i'll put in a 4 x 3" soil adapter in to properly connect it:yes:


This with a 4" tyseal gasket !!! Lead joints are for guys in Chicago !!! Lol


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

By the way, you'll be eliminating one connection by using the 4x3 soil adapter


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Or this. It's a 4x3 tyseal. Goes in 4" hub and 3" goes in it !!!


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Or this. It's a 4x3 tyseal. Goes in 4" hub and 3" goes in it !!!


 
We call them push gaskets:thumbsup: but only allowed under ground


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Fernco sells over-the-hub couplings that will fit, well, over the hub.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Verification isn't a problem but if the boss tells you to do something, then that's the way it is....shouldn't be a discussion on if it'll work.


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## sjaquay (Jan 13, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> Verification isn't a problem but if the boss tells you to do something, then that's the way it is....shouldn't be a discussion on if it'll work.


boss is an hvac guy...NOT a plumber... most times he asks us about plumbing, but for some reason he decided not to on this one.

thanks guys, great advice here, just like i thought id get. :thumbup:


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

130 PLUMBER said:


> If it was me i'll put in a 4 x 3" soil adapter in to properly connect it:yes:


Assuming you can still find lead wool somewhere :laughing:


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## aprilmayb (Feb 11, 2013)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Assuming you can still find lead wool somewhere :laughing:


You copied my quote as your tagline? Ha! I guess this makes me kinda famous.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Assuming you can still find lead wool somewhere :laughing:


I can gut it here. Or bars of lead see it


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

aprilmayb said:


> You copied my quote as your tagline? Ha! I guess this makes me kinda famous.


It's a quote worth re-quoting :yes:


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I can gut it here. Or bars of lead see it


I've heard it suggested that some people can pour a lead joint on PVC without lead wool...all I can say is I'll believe it when I see it under water test


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I've heard it suggested that some people can pour a lead joint on PVC without lead wool...all I can say is I'll believe it when I see it under water test


Do you melt the wool or just pack it ???


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Do you melt the wool or just pack it ???


Loose pack around PVC, then finish with a bit of hot pour...the wool cools the pour so it doesn't melt the PVC


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

Or as the old Eastern European counterman used to say: "lead vool". Before slamming the enter key on the filthy computer keyboard at the plumbing supply.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I've heard it suggested that some people can pour a lead joint on PVC without lead wool...all I can say is I'll believe it when I see it under water test


I have caulked in a CI shower drain on 2" PVC. Just call Me HackBiz. :laughing:

Cold wet rag stuffed inside the pipe. Certainly not ideal but it doesn't leak.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

130 PLUMBER said:


> We call them push gaskets:thumbsup: but only allowed under ground


Why only underground??? I've seen them above ground here..


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Assuming you can still find lead wool somewhere :laughing:


You can find lead wool at Lowe's here..


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

*are you sure?*



gear junkie said:


> Verification isn't a problem but if the boss tells you to do something, then that's the way it is....shouldn't be a discussion on if it'll work.


that brings up a good question on how much an employee should push a boss if he has a different solution. I encourage my guys to challenge me for better ideas, but I have had situations with guys being thickheaded and having ego get in the way.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Why only underground??? I've seen them above ground here..


 
I haven't check the code book but i have removed a hand full of them per plumbing inspectors on the northshore and northwest suburbs.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> I have caulked in a CI shower drain on 2" PVC. Just call Me HackBiz. :laughing:
> 
> Cold wet rag stuffed inside the pipe. Certainly not ideal but it doesn't leak.



Yep, but not on foam core. I've seen it on schedule 40, but only on a vertical pipe, never on an horizontal.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

4x3 pvc manoff, pack and pour. It won't melt through the plastic but you should let ot cool before caulking the lead so you don't dent the pvc. I've done it a hundred times with out a leak.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

For $150 they should get the quick hack repair! Clean out the joint and pack with epoxy putty! I'm outa here!


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

sjaquay said:


> but its a home warranty call and we are allowed $150 to fix this..


A good reason not to work for Home Warranty Companies, that is unless you get your normal rates. But I guess the money lost an be made up in volume.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

http://www.wholesaleplumbing.com/plumbing-repair/flexible-couplings/fernco-donuts.html


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

The donut will work, but for $150 all they would get was new cement in the hole.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Assuming you can still find lead wool somewhere :laughing:


Against code. A soil pipe adapter is required, and can handle a hot pour. The lead does not make the water tight seal, its the oakum. The lead is to hold the oakum in place, and must be one continuous pour.


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