# Looking for a new company.....



## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

Well I'm to a point now where I feel the bad outweighs the good and wil be looking for a new company where I will be a good fit.

I've got a lot to consider with this change. I've been commercial new and remodeling my whole career and feel that it's probably time I look for a place that can give me new experiences in other aspects of plumbing I haven't been exposed to. The service side of plumbing is something I've never had the opportunity to partake in.

For those of you who went from a normal workweek in commercial to the on call service type plumbing was it hard to adjust?

Do those of you that made the type of change I'm considering feel that it's made you a better plumber?

So far each time I've changed companies its been a better decision. Hopefully this change will be the same.


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## CT18 (Sep 18, 2012)

I went from large commercial/industrial to working service for a small mom and pop that a friend inherited. It was hard for a while, lots of little tricks i needed to learn. If the shop you go to is understanding with the time to adjust you should be fine. Good Luck. Oh yeah i am back to the big work, but in the design end now.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

I find that the troubleshooting skills you develop in service will make you a better plumber overall; for all the large & small mistakes I find causing issues that are performed by the construction guys. And you know that until they learn otherwise those fellows will be making that same mistake over and over in large quantities whenever they encounter it. Some things such as the long and less predictable hours can be taxing, you can't always go home at 4:30 because you might be a few hours from having the heat or water restored. Then there's the after hours work such as on call or scheduled OT, our wives have to have the patience of Saints.


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## SHAUN C (Feb 16, 2011)

I went from commercial construction to res. service twice in my career. Service definetly isn't for everyone, dealing with customers, quoting work, etc. takes some time to adjust but it's not bad. What ever you decide, don't take a job for less money. Just my two cents


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

SHAUN C said:


> don't take a job for less money. Just my two cents


I hope you get more than two cents. Heh


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## Turd Chaser (Dec 1, 2011)

I started out and did commercial new construction until the recession. I was then laid off for 6 months before being picked up by an average size service contractor. I new nothing about service work. Now only 3 years later, I feel more knowledgable than ever. I even have old foremen from the old company calling me to help with a service question. My company must feel that I am valuable because about 2 months ago they gave me a new truck and $2 over scale. In our area it is really hard to find GOOD service plumbers, and the company I work feel knows this and takes good care of us. If I ever decide to leave, I would be fine at any other shop. I feel that everyone should learn some service. It will make them think about new construction.


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## andy.t (Jul 18, 2013)

I went from a small company doing new commercial and residential construction to service and like some have said above I know way more now than I did before. Definetly a benefit to my experience and knowledge I wouldn't trade for nothing. Only thing with service you can throw away the 8 to 5 deal and get ready for late calls and weekend work when necessary. But all in all...+ for me!


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## Lja1821 (Jul 27, 2013)

Im sure we have all been there at one point or another you just need to evaluate exactly what fits your lifestyle and what goals you are looking to achieve professionally. I started my plumbing career in service for about 2 years before getting my job with my current employer which we do primarly large commercial projects. i defintiely learned alot during my short service career and has proven to be a valuable learning experience to take into my current job..


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Can you talk to people?

You can learn the troubleshooting over time. You need to be a great communicator to make it in service. First because you and the company depend on your invoices for income. That means correctly identifying the problem and offering solutions that WILL work, not maybe, and getting the clients confidence to do the work.

I recommend reading How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. You don't have to be a shark, just be able to listen, ask the right questions to know how to meet their needs.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

JWBII said:


> Well I'm to a point now where I feel the bad outweighs the good and wil be looking for a new company where I will be a good fit.
> 
> I've got a lot to consider with this change. I've been commercial new and remodeling my whole career and feel that it's probably time I look for a place that can give me new experiences in other aspects of plumbing I haven't been exposed to. The service side of plumbing is something I've never had the opportunity to partake in.
> 
> ...


 
The change to service was one the hardest things I've done in my working life. It was so different from the Normal regular hours to when they want you. Having to deal and sometimes I mean "DEAL" with folks who are actually paying the bill and are going to use the end product. Walking in poop, dealing with years of built up growth in the drains, fixing stuff, and having to be nice to folks. For the first month or two I wondered if I had made the right move.
16 years later no freaking question I wouldn't even dream of going back to new construction. Now days I curse the guys I used to be, working too fast, not giving a crap about the guy who'll have to repair it in the future. Getting to know new people regularly, job satisfaction multiple times a day, troubleshooting new and sometimes exotic issues, and still every now and then going home dog tired, sore and banged up from a rough job. Honestly new construction and service plumbing are different jobs almost entirely, it is a very hard transition to make but the skill set you gain from the experience will justify the difficulty. And just don't think about the money you'll be charging folks for the first year. Just know that you have to charge that much to have a job.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Was lucky enough to be trained and practiced all the different aspects of the trade.
Think it's so important for all of us to get an education in new work both commercial and residential. This way we know what it looks like behind the walls and floors. 
I know a lot of folks think service is not the hard work of new/remodel but I beg to differ.
Yes a 95 degree humid day in a ditch is TOUGH but so is that day upside down, backwards in VERY SMALL TIGHT WET FILTHY places! Most days service will kick your A** , keep you past supper time then swat you on the head and say ," See ya tomorrow !" All the time being the most frustrating yet fulfilling day you can have. 
Go try it !! You'll meet new people everyday,hear amazing life stories,see some freaks ,make good $ , and people will learn to depend on you which is also very fulfilling ! Its a different beast then new work. See how you like it ! Best of Luck ! 

My .02


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I appreciate all the advice so far and I look forward to this new path. The good thing about this new company is they only require you to be on call 1 week out of every 5 so that will hopefully ease the transition a bit. 

It seems they do service as well as small commercial new and remodeling. I will be able to contribute as well as learn a new aspect. From being on here I know that as a new construction plumber I've made life hard on the guys after me before. Sometimes I had no choice since it wasn't mine to make. I get the impression this company is small enough that they think about how their work affects others as well as the quality of their work.

Keep the opinions coming I really appreciate it guys.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Ill throw in my .02 cents..

I've been all over the map inside the trade. New construction, remodels, service, pipe fitting/welding, and now instrumentation fitting.

My first gig was new construction and I was as green as you can come, I could read a tape, that was about it. I came straight out of dropping out of college on a full paid football scholarship at 19.My old man was a sparky and told me the night before my first day to keep my head up and learn a trade..

It wasn't long from my first day that I was thrown into a service van with a journeyman and we did both new work and service. I stayed at it for about 1 1/2 then I got into pipe fitting for another year with the same company.

I left there and went to another contractor and did new work for right at a year. Got laid off and went to another contractor in town, so by 22 I had worked for all 3 union shops in town.

This is where my career took off, I was literally thrown into a service truck, was illegal by state plumbing board and I questioned that but I had to provide for my family. After many mistakes I learned how to do service and do it well. I became the lead service technician after I got my license and was sent out numerous times to clean up what other journeyman had done. Contract negotiations fell through on our union contract and I left them when the owner didn't want to pay into my retirement any longer..

I went back to the contractor I was employed with before I turned out as the lead service technician there. I stayed with them for 3 years almost to the day..

For me, I got burnt out on service. Mainly because I never had any help and when I asked for it, everyone was busy. I guess being 6'6" 245 they figured there wasn't a whole lot that I couldn't pick up by myself. But slinging maxi rooters and dragging 50 gallon gas water heaters by a chain in attics gets old quick solo. 

Unstopping toilets and sewer lines became the norm there. Several weeks that would be the only calls I had. Now don't misunderstand me, there is an art to unstopping drains. You've got to know your machines and know how the underground is more than likely plumbed just by sight and feel. I am by no means down playing it, I just know for me, I didn't become a plumber to sling cables all day. It is needed and is a dying art form, but again I got burnt out on it.

I feel like I was able to excel at service because of my solid new work experience. 

I can diagnose a service issue one day, read prints and rough in a whole building the next day. 

You've got a solid base from the new work experience, the trouble shooting will come. The transition I see guys missing from coming from new work is that wide open bull in a china closet mentality. That doesn't work with service, customers won't react well to it and they want a technician they can talk to and explain why they have to pay for X. Not that's just the way it is.

You've got to be able to read people and know how to explain things to them in lay men terms. Service is a whole different animal than new work like others have said, but it's an easier transition once you open your ears and slow down to listen to each client you come across.

Clients enjoy a tech that shows they are concerned with their issue, whether of not you are, act like it. They will be the ones paying your wages and you've got to toe that line so they will trust in you to let go of whatever amount of money it will cost to fix their issue. 

You will run across some certifiable a holes along you way, but keep your cool. I have had several run ins with idiots but I am able to let it bounce off of me and show them the right way and that they are wrong in tactful way. 9 times out of 10 they are just wanting to see how far they can get with being a peckerhead and when put in their place they back off.

For me, I wont go back to service work. I am currently working as an Instrumentation Fitter bending stainless steel tubing and have found my calling, ill get my technicians license shortly so I can calibrate and test instruments in a heavy industrial setting.

If I do come back to town it will be in new work only, I've spent the last 6 years as a service technician and made good money doing it. But the never knowing your start or quit times and the constant running takes a toll on you. 

I think we should all try to learn everything we can to pass down to the younger generations of tradesmen and women. 

Good luck in your venture, you will learn a lot. Take it day by day and soak up all the info you can, you just never know when you'll need it...


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Oh,, and to add a few more sense from before 

Have a haircut , clean shave or trimmed beard. 
Greet them at the door with a smile.
Tuck your shirt in ... NEVER SHOW CRACK 
I carry a heavy foot scrubber from Walmart that I throw down right inside the door. Clean feet , happy wife.. Happy wife , happy life.
Have a nice tool bag , nothing sloppy.
Use tarps in kitchens and bathrooms.
DON'T SHOW ANGER / frustration/ worry ... It scares the inmates ! 
Get good rubber gloves. You NEVER have run into this kinda funk in new work. 

Now I'm done .


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*good advice*



Cal said:


> Oh,, and to add a few more sense from before
> 
> Have a haircut , clean shave or trimmed beard.
> Greet them at the door with a smile.
> ...


 

very good advice..... most new construction guys, commercial guys and union guys are basically slobs and really try hard to look the part too.. 
its all part of the persona of having to be around a bunch of hard asses all day long 

when you have to walk into someones home its wise to clean up your act cause you are going into a CO_ED situation, its not going to be all boys so you have to learn to present yourself to the public now......
and you got to open your mouth say more than UGGGh..to the
lady customer....that seems to scare the hell out of a lot of guys....

I can tell you that a lot of folks are scared of service work for that very reason.... having to sell themselves and be salesman and also diagnostic plumbers too.
*Serivce work is a lot like public speaking but only in front of just a few folks......sometimes I think its almost like stand up comedy* 



I personally have a relative who could have bought a service company in our area for a song but he was scared to death of the responsibility and having to basically be a salesman... I think he was union trained to have a smoke break every 2 hours and he just wanted to be told exactly what to do every day by a foreman......:laughing:
Now instead of having a* positive growth experience* he is driveing 150 miles down into kentucky to do commercial work at a nuke power plant.. and seeing his family every other weekend.:blink:



doing service work I have seen it all and I am probably spoiled and could never go back to drilling holes all day long or installing slab roughs either...


In my opinion, the scariest thing you can run into on a service call is a beautiful lady standing at the door in her see through nightgown..... that takes some getting used to if you have never done service work, it rattles my cage anyway.....:laughing:. 

 My guys call me every time this happens to them 
 and I have to hear the whole story and then it takes them a few days
to gear down from it.........


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> very good advice..... most new construction guys, commercial guys and union guys are basically slobs and really try hard to look the part too..
> its all part of the persona of having to be around a bunch of hard asses all day long
> 
> I personally have a relative who could have bought a service company in our area for a song but he was scared to death of the responsibility and having to basically be a salesman... I think he was union trained to have a smoke break every 2 hours and he just wanted to be told exactly what to do every day by a foreman......:laughing:
> ...


If it wasn't for us "slobs" you wouldn't have your little service calls to go on. Tattoos and a beard don't make you any more or less of a technician than clean cut, shirt tucked in pre madonnas that would have to go home and change if they got a little bit of pookie on them.

People want their issue fixed, if there is sewer blowing out of their floor drains I doubt very seriously they will care if your clean shaven or not, they want it fixed right then and all the shirts tucked in of the world won't get it done any faster.

Service work isn't more elevated more than new work, it's the ones doing service that try to elevate theirselves above their counterparts. At the end of the day this license is the same and your just another turd hurder to the general public...

I don't view us that way, we are a skilled trade that you will never completely master, but to the public your just another plumber, tats or not, beard or not, shirts tucked in or not. 

Classifying all commercial hands and union hands as slobs is just about the speed of wanna be pre madonnas...

Your relative that drives to the nuke plant also makes superior wages with his knowledge for a lot less work load than having his own head ache of a business would bring. Insurance paid, retirement paid, and more than likely a vacation fund paid that he can cash out on when he sees fit... Sure as hell beats running around trying to round up outstanding payments from all those nice customers that want clean shaven, shirt tucked in service technicians working on their potties...

The away from home does suck, but we are able to hit a couple of turn arounds a year and make easily a smooth $80,000 + in 6 months and take the rest of the year off while you bust ass for 12, yeah that sounds like that sucks a fat one....

Women who answer the door like that are trying to get you hung up in drama that isn't easily gotten out of... Take the bait and your screwed in more ways than one.


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I don't really care what other guys think about me when it comes to commercial versus residential. I think there's good n bad in all phases of plumbing regardless of which type you do.

I've seen some nasty looking service techs as well as some very professional commercial guys. There are times in commercial when you have to give solutions to problems and be able to execute them the way you've presented it.

I don't know where some guys have been but very seldom have I been around commercial plumbers that stand there and go "uhhh" when asked question on various issues. Since when do things go just like the plans show when doing commercial work lol.

Either way I'm still looking forward to learning a new aspect of plumbing.


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## plumbmaster32 (Apr 10, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> If it wasn't for us "slobs" you wouldn't have your little service calls to go on. Tattoos and a beard don't make you any more or less of a technician than clean cut, shirt tucked in pre madonnas that would have to go home and change if they got a little bit of pookie on them.
> 
> People want their issue fixed, if there is sewer blowing out of their floor drains I doubt very seriously they will care if your clean shaven or not, they want it fixed right then and all the shirts tucked in of the world won't get it done any faster.
> 
> ...


Plumberman,

It seems you have absolutely no idea how our society tends to work. If you think appearance and professionalism have nothing to do with a plumbers ability to sell a job or a customers decision in who they hire? REALLY....then you have no idea how real world works! I have been involved in sales long before I ever became a plumber. I have owned and managed several businesses. If there is anything that a professional must do then its to act and appear as a professional at all times. I am currently a sales manager for a medical plumbing company. We deal with doctors everyday and perform plumbing repairs during business hours. Question For You: A doctor has to pick between two equally skilled plumbers to become his plumbing service provider at his office. There is only one difference between the two. One plumber is well spoken, good hygiene, charismatic, clean shaven, no tattoos showing, wears shirt tucked in and pants with a belt(NO BUTT CRACK) and has ALL his teeth. While the other plumber has poor communication skills, tattoos & piercings, needs to shave, shirt hanging out and butt crack showing, and maybe 8 teeth. Which plumber do you think the doctor will hire? Better yet....the house wife will hire? Or a local business owner? Or someone that you come across in a store? A professional appearance was something I learned when I was a kid. It doesn't matter what your profession is....you dress like a professional. People in business WILL take an individual with professional appearance more serious than a tattooed up/bad hygiene/poorly groomed individual 100% of the time. Don't believe me.....then clean yourself up and see how people respond to you then! By the way.....don't talk about how much you make because it makes you look like an even bigger idiot!


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I was just offering some ways that have helped over the years to build the word of mouth business. 
We ALL should have to do all aspects of the trade so we can truly know what we're doing. 

If anyone thinks appearance & attitude DO NOT matter. Then stay out of service work !


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Keep a disposable hazmat suit in the van at all times. This is a MUST!


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

What about multimeters? Will a clamp meter do all or do you need a multi as well as a clamp?


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

JWBII said:


> What about multimeters? Will a clamp meter do all or do you need a multi as well as a clamp?


You should have one that measures ohms for continuity and voltage


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*what.....???*



Plumberman said:


> If it wasn't for us "slobs" you wouldn't have your little service calls to go on. Tattoos and a beard don't make you any more or less of a technician than clean cut, shirt tucked in pre madonnas that would have to go home and change if they got a little bit of pookie on them.
> 
> People want their issue fixed, if there is sewer blowing out of their floor drains I doubt very seriously they will care if your clean shaven or not, they want it fixed right then and all the shirts tucked in of the world won't get it done any faster.
> 
> ...


 
So what did I say to hurt your feelings this time....
you have a serious chip on your shoulder.... I dont understand why you take everything I say personally unless I am hitting too close to home with you... 

when I worked commercial a long time ago, the average journeyman wore a hard hat and basically showed up and was told what to do by the foreman.. 
He was not judjed by his appearance, but more on his ability to work and complete the task on time..... 
Most of these guys came to work in tattered overhalls, un-shaven or with braided beards, and sometimes stinking like horses..--no teeth and spitting tobacco..


Nothing more was required of them than to be there on time and do the work..... I did not like the work and I did think of a lot of them as un-pleasent slobs.


now if you carry that atitude and attempt to do service work, you will probably scare off quite a number of customers who would not even let you step foot into their homes.....

*you cant go into homes stinking like a horse,* or looking like you just wallowed in a sewer.. They are not going to let you work in their daughters bathroom when you have butt crack showing, peirecings and tatoos all the way up to your neck line....looking like a carnie freak .... (this is not directed at you )


You will probably shock most of them and they will simply take your estimate for the work and just find someone else.... and they will probably give your company a bad reiview on google if they are not too afraid of reprisals from you..... 


The relative I spoke about is now working in town for a non-union company because that gravey union work ended and all dryed up... he was tired of sleeping with a bunch of guys in a cheap hotel.. and his wife is happy that he is back around... also I have spoke to his wife and she sort of wishes he would have bought the small town business..


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*what is that worth anyway??*



MTDUNN said:


> Keep a disposable hazmat suit in the van at all times. This is a MUST!


 
what is one of them worth anyway?? $150 bucks??

I think I am gonna need something like that next week with a job I have to do... 

Would love just to suit up and just plunge through it all in some nasty crawl space and then throw it away when done...

thats service work for you:laughing:.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbmaster32 said:


> Plumberman,
> 
> It seems you have absolutely no idea how our society tends to work. If you think appearance and professionalism have nothing to do with a plumbers ability to sell a job or a customers decision in who they hire? REALLY....then you have no idea how real world works! I have been involved in sales long before I ever became a plumber. I have owned and managed several businesses. If there is anything that a professional must do then its to act and appear as a professional at all times. I am currently a sales manager for a medical plumbing company. We deal with doctors everyday and perform plumbing repairs during business hours. Question For You: A doctor has to pick between two equally skilled plumbers to become his plumbing service provider at his office. There is only one difference between the two. One plumber is well spoken, good hygiene, charismatic, clean shaven, no tattoos showing, wears shirt tucked in and pants with a belt(NO BUTT CRACK) and has ALL his teeth. While the other plumber has poor communication skills, tattoos & piercings, needs to shave, shirt hanging out and butt crack showing, and maybe 8 teeth. Which plumber do you think the doctor will hire? Better yet....the house wife will hire? Or a local business owner? Or someone that you come across in a store? A professional appearance was something I learned when I was a kid. It doesn't matter what your profession is....you dress like a professional. People in business WILL take an individual with professional appearance more serious than a tattooed up/bad hygiene/poorly groomed individual 100% of the time. Don't believe me.....then clean yourself up and see how people respond to you then! By the way.....don't talk about how much you make because it makes you look like an even bigger idiot!


Hahaha

You gathered all that info from words. Real winner there.

I live in the real world and have sold countless jobs and don't need an arm chair hero telling me what I need to be doing.

Done the service world and excelled, got burnt out.. Probably because of brain dead bosses like yourself

I just find it amusing that you think I'm tatted up and stink from words on the screen. I do have a large beard, when you live in duck dynasty ville everyone has beards. 

I'd much rather have a tech that looks like he knows the trade instead of one who gets g'd up to go play plumber for the day. Demographics are different with every area served, but I forgot you should know that because I work in a fantasy world..


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> So what did I say to hurt your feelings this time....
> you have a serious chip on your shoulder.... I dont understand why you take everything I say personally unless I am hitting too close to home with you...
> 
> when I worked commercial a long time ago, the average journeyman wore a hard hat and basically showed up and was told what to do by the foreman..
> ...


Chip on my shoulder?

Nah, just call you on your **** when you blindly stereotype individuals who you don't agree with.

Assured you aren't smart enough to piss me off.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> what is one of them worth anyway?? $150 bucks??
> 
> I think I am gonna need something like that next week with a job I have to do...
> 
> ...


Nah, $10-$15 tops at a paint store or home deep


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Plumberman said:


> If it wasn't for us "slobs" you wouldn't have your little service calls to go on. Tattoos and a beard don't make you any more or less of a technician than clean cut, shirt tucked in pre madonnas that would have to go home and change if they got a little bit of pookie on them.
> 
> People want their issue fixed, if there is sewer blowing out of their floor drains I doubt very seriously they will care if your clean shaven or not, they want it fixed right then and all the shirts tucked in of the world won't get it done any faster.
> 
> ...



You really can't mean what your saying here. If you really think that it don't matter what the plumber looks like. Then your fooling yourself big time. If you think having plumbers that look like they rolled out of the homeless camp. Your wrong!! Trust me I have hired guys of both appearance, and the "slobs" were asked to never come back. 
I doubt very much you would like it if the guy at the local car repair garage. Was all greasy and dirty getting into your brand new car and leaving grease spot all over and hand prints in the seats. 
A "slob" may be ok if out in a construction job site and he may be the best at that. No one is doubting that. But throw him into service and he may not cut it as its a different beast. I have done both and preferred service over the new stuff. Not because of any ego trip.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Also wearing a hazmat suit impresses customers. Makes them feel you are doing something important (which you are) as well as giving them the impression of competency.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Quit fighting guys. It's ok to look like a dirty plumber on site jobs. Not in someone's house or office. Simple as that


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Hahaha

You all are the ones taking offense to what I said.

Nevermind the fact that Master Misspell Mark threw a blanket stereo type of slobs for new construction guys because that's what he has seen, so it's gotta be that way every where.

My point is it doesn't take a completely clean shaven tech with a shirt tucked in to sell work or to make the customer happy. 

I've worked all sides, I've worked them clean shaven and with my winter beard. I didn't tuck my shirts in and out sold a company of over 50 techs...

Wanna know why? Cause I offered the knowledge and the know how of talking to clients. 

I wouldn't go on the next call covered in sewer, I carried clean clothes in my truck, which was also clean..

The point I'm making is you can't judge a book by its cover. My tats are covered and never had an issue. My winter beard got many good reviews, you only live once and I want allow a company to tell me how I should look.. I'm a professional and this ain't the military...

Simmer down now and sip on y'all's gerital. 

Lol


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

" Simmer down now and sip on y'all's gerital" 

Hahaha ! Good one ! Do they make it in liquid cause these pills are a little harsh.

LOL!


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Cal said:


> " Simmer down now and sip on y'all's gerital"
> 
> Hahaha ! Good one ! Do they make it in liquid cause these pills are a little harsh.
> 
> LOL!


Surely they do, I work with some cats that need to main line it!


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> what is one of them worth anyway?? $150 bucks??
> 
> I think I am gonna need something like that next week with a job I have to do...
> 
> ...


Check out the coveralls at Shuebee.com


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MTDUNN said:


> Quit fighting guys. It's ok to look like a dirty plumber on site jobs. Not in someone's house or office. Simple as that


 
actually no one was fighting here...
.


I dont know what is really going on....
and what the real issues are


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbmaster32 said:


> Plumberman,
> 
> By the way.....don't talk about how much you make because it makes you look like an even bigger idiot!


Coming from the same idiot who didn't know what a ford coupling was, medical plumber? Hahaha

Didn't say what I made, I said there was potential to earn that on a couple of turn arounds a year. 

Read up on spacing of paragraphs. I'm sure it would help out on your service report dictations as well...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Let's leave the name calling on the sidelines please.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> ...The point I'm making is you can't judge a book by its cover....


I can and I do, and here is why...

The standards of personal appearance are different in residential service work as compared to new construction. You can like it, hate it, or claim otherwise but that does not change this one fact: More often than not, residential customers judge service people by their appearance.

A clean-cut plumber is no more skilled than you anymore than your long beard improved your skill. The reality is that consumers will sometimes assume the stereotyped clean-cut individual to be more clean-cut in his trade practices as well. 

Fair? Maybe not. 
Accurate? Not always. 
Does it happen? Too often to ignore.

So what are we to do? Some companies have the luxury of ignoring it, others not so much. Since they don't know which of their potential customers may be judging the cover, they play the clean-cut role for all of them.

The service plumbing business is not full of money trees waiting to be harvested. Personal appearance can be a very critical part of success. All be it, just ONE part. You still have to have the knowledge, expertise, and communication skills or Gillette will do you no good whatsoever.

Market areas do matter. I am sure that the fellas on Duck Dynasty do not care if a long bearded, untucked plumber shows up at their door. That said, Duck Dynasty is not famous on TV because the characters are the norm. While they may be what most people watch, they are not what most people are (not around here that is).


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## plumbmaster32 (Apr 10, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> Quit fighting guys. It's ok to look like a dirty plumber on site jobs. Not in someone's house or office. Simple as that


Bring a change of clothes with you. That way if you get real nice and dirty you have clothes to change into.

PLUMBERMAN- No one says you have to be G'd out in Gucci when you go to work. Just be presentable and professional. I have tattoos and so do my guys but we cover them up. I have guys who have piercings but they don't have those piercings at work. It's simple...if your given the responsibility to sell and deal with customers you most certainly have to look and act as a professional. If you don't then it's not as important if you don't want to be taken seriously. And by the way....demographics don't really mean anything when it comes to being a professional. You can be anywhere and the rule of thumb still applies. You carry yourself how you wish. I'm just saying.....


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> I can and I do, and here is why...
> 
> The standards of personal appearance are different in residential service work as compared to new construction. You can like it, hate it, or claim otherwise but that does not change this one fact: More often than not, residential customers judge service people by their appearance.
> 
> ...


And I 100% agree with you, for your area and obviously many others who are adamant about driving their point home.

You can speak for what works for your company and for what works for where your at, I can tell you from someone who has spent 10 years in MY market the clean cut are just as busy as the guys that aren't. 

As I stated several times in replies I see both sides of it, and I'm just adding another spin on it that in MY area either goes. What I mean by that is sure eyebrows are raised if a tech goes to a house dripping in mud and sewer and hasn't taken a shower in a week with a birds nest in his beard, yes that doesn't fly here...

But a bearded tech with an untucked shirt in THIS market works. The reason I know, because I did it for 10 years... And I have several other friends who are techs working for several different shops in town, they range from clean cut, shirt tucked in, to untucked winter beard going on and ALL of them are busy catching calls with no issues...

It's cool, ill keep my beard and bend tubing, lot less head ache... Lol


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbmaster32 said:


> Bring a change of clothes with you. That way if you get real nice and dirty you have clothes to change into.
> 
> PLUMBERMAN- No one says you have to be G'd out in Gucci when you go to work. Just be presentable and professional. I have tattoos and so do my guys but we cover them up. I have guys who have piercings but they don't have those piercings at work. It's simple...if your given the responsibility to sell and deal with customers you most certainly have to look and act as a professional. If you don't then it's not as important if you don't want to be taken seriously. And by the way....demographics don't really mean anything when it comes to being a professional. You can be anywhere and the rule of thumb still applies. You carry yourself how you wish. I'm just saying.....


You obviously don't back track and read previous posts before you respond...

Ill repeat it for you.. I out sold a company of 50 techs with a beard and untucked shirt for 3 years straight. 

Being clean cut didn't help me stay at the top for that many years, what I bring to the table in my professionalism and know how is what kept me at the top.. I know the MARKET I WORK IN like the back of my hand... I have no idea how yours is, it doesn't fly there, then good deal, but it flies here.

Demographics do play a role in it, like it or not. Come to where I am and you will see, vice versa.

So what your saying is just because I have a beard I'm unprofessional? 

Insert beard if you like...


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## plumbmaster32 (Apr 10, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> You obviously don't back track and read previous posts before you respond...
> 
> Ill repeat it for you.. I out sold a company of 50 techs with a beard and untucked shirt for 3 years straight.
> 
> ...


First, let me say i don't judge an individuals ability to plumb or anything else based on how they look. But in the business customers judge individuals on first impressions. There is never a second chance to make a good first impression with a potential customer. i could care less how you look and I'm sure your a good plumber. But take a look again at your photo. Guess which pic is how the doctor is dressed for work? I could care less about your appearance. I'm just stating facts. Proven scientific studies regarding discussion to follow......


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

It's simple for me. I'll dress the way the company I work for requires. If I don't agree or like it then I'll decide that before I choose to work there.....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

That is a great picture and example....

so which one of these guys would you rather see 
walking through the door tomorrow morning to give you 
that prostate exam??? :laughing::laughing: 


which one looks more knowlegable and trustworthy to be poking around where no man has gone before????


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

We're beating a dead horse. Everybody go to their neutral corners . We all know our demographics and know to work in that realm . 
My earlier post simply meant : Make a great first impression.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

JWBII said:


> It's simple for me. I'll dress the way the company I work for requires. If I don't agree or like it then I'll decide that before I choose to work there.....


Ding ding!

Annddd there ya go!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Cal said:


> We're beating a dead horse. Everybody go to their neutral corners . We all know our demographics and know to work in that realm...


Well it was fun while it lasted....kill joy. :surrender:


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Well it was fun while it lasted....kill joy. :surrender:


Pot..... Meet kettle..... rofl


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> Well it was fun while it lasted....kill joy. :surrender:


Or we can just call it a one minute break between rounds. :boxing:


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbmaster32 said:


> First, let me say i don't judge an individuals ability to plumb or anything else based on how they look. But in the business customers judge individuals on first impressions. There is never a second chance to make a good first impression with a potential customer. i could care less how you look and I'm sure your a good plumber. But take a look again at your photo. Guess which pic is how the doctor is dressed for work? I could care less about your appearance. I'm just stating facts. Proven scientific studies regarding discussion to follow......


Now all of a sudden you could care less about "my appearance" which I'm guessing you have this picture of me with a nappy braided beard and holes in my jeans and a stained shirt, which you would be completely off base.

Before I got out of the service world I bought some nice button down shirts and had the company I worked for embroider their logo on the front of them. No I don't tuck my shirt in, the reason why, I run wide open doing the day and it comes untucked regularly. Happens quite often when you crawl through basements or gotta rough in a job before the next call comes in. Numerous times tucking it in and it gets wrinkled so I didn't do it.

I never was questioned about it, nor my beard that was most of the time was trimmed accordingly except during the middle of rut for deer season here..

I must have made several good first impressions because clients would call in and request me by name, and if I was tied up they would wait until I was free to get to their properties, sometimes for days at a time..

Scientific results won't change my mind on what I know works in MY market. If it doesn't work in yours, great, I don't plan on working in your area. If I had to, that would be a different story and I understand that but just because what works in yours doesn't make it a universal truth. 

Don't talk to me about "being a professional" I know how to carry myself with customers and have known how to excel in the market I call home. 

Just as you know how to be professional in your area, difference with me is I'm not telling you what you need to do... Take notes, your reality isn't everyone's reality. Welcome to the real world.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> That is a great picture and example....
> 
> so which one of these guys would you rather see
> walking through the door tomorrow morning to give you
> ...


Hit it like you live...

Ill only use women doctors for that.. Lol


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Plumberman said:


> Hit it like you live...
> 
> Ill only use women doctors for that.. Lol


 

I doubt that any lady would get near you.
especially if your ass looks anything like your beard....

I think that they would pass on that one.......:laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

JWBII said:


> Pot..... Meet kettle..... rofl


Guilty as charged. :laughing:


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> I doubt that any lady would get near you.
> especially if your ass looks anything like your beard....
> 
> I think that they would pass on that one.......:laughing:


I've only got to impress one woman in this world and she loves tha beard...


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Plumberman said:


> I've only got to impress one woman in this world and she loves tha beard...


Your sister didn't say anything about your beard to me.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

MTDUNN said:


> Your sister didn't say anything about your beard to me.


Hahaha

Good one but no mas on having a sister...

Oh, and that only happens to the north of me.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Service is easy Construction is hard

Each have ther days that suck 

I do both and prefer construction ... It where my roots are 

But I have yet to have a hot lady open the door in a nighty Il keep my eye out tho !!!

Doing both I am very aware of how I plumb and how it will effect the service plumber that maintains my systems after I leave. I def hook him up with easy access to all components on the systems 

I never use a San cross. Lol


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Service is easy Construction is hard
> 
> Each have ther days that suck
> 
> ...


With service work, if you are the owner of the company you might get a bounced check on occasion, but it is not something that will sink the business, In construction work the risk is un-limited and you can lose your ass FAST if you have a skumbag general contractor....

That is one of the reasons I like service over construction its low risk, , its a better work enviornment.... you are around a lot of different types of folks instead of just rubbing shoulders with bearded plumbers and other construction workers all day long. :blink: THAT becomes mind numbing:blink:

so I think you got to keep a decent appearance about you, Folks dont care what you claim to know or what your experience is. They dont care if you plumbed the space shuttle, they only want someone looking human walking into their home........ especially the lady folks. 

Well Maybe this is not the case down in Lousianna, but it works good north of the mason-dixon line anyway...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Service is easy Construction is hard...


Typical thought from someone that doesn't know the difference between a stove bolt and a cook stove. :laughing:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> With service work, if you are the owner of the company you might get a bounced check on occasion, but it is not something that will sink the business, In construction work the risk is un-limited and you can lose your ass FAST if you have a skumbag general contractor....
> 
> That is one of the reasons I like service over construction its low risk, , its a better work enviornment.... you are around a lot of different types of folks instead of just rubbing shoulders with bearded plumbers and other construction workers all day long. :blink: THAT becomes mind numbing:blink:
> 
> ...


What about commercial service? You have an even bigger risk at times because the buildings are finished and equipment is in. I've snapped 40 year old cast out 20 feet over the top of a million dollar print machine that was losing 10k an hour to be shut down for my repair. Just one of hundreds of jobs that could have went south hard.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> What about commercial service? You have an even bigger risk at times because the buildings are finished and equipment is in. I've snapped 40 year old cast out 20 feet over the top of a million dollar print machine that was losing 10k an hour to be shut down for my repair. Just one of hundreds of jobs that could have went south hard.


 
that is very true indeed....commercial service is a whole n-other level indeed 

you got to make sure you got a boat load of insurance

and you certainly got to know what the hell you are doing , have your game plan planned professionaly 

and its wise that you dress good and look the part too....:yes:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I like com service Money isn't a problem with them. No home owners to screw with and the maintenance staff is always happy to see u Bigger facility mean bigger systems and that means more fun and bigger challenges


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> and you certainly got to know what the hell you are doing , have your game plan planned professionaly
> 
> and its wise that you dress good and look the part too....:yes:


<---- Yawns


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> What about commercial service? You have an even bigger risk at times because the buildings are finished and equipment is in. I've snapped 40 year old cast out 20 feet over the top of a million dollar print machine that was losing 10k an hour to be shut down for my repair. Just one of hundreds of jobs that could have went south hard.


I did a service call in the control room of a nuke plant. The hallway was basically a path between control panels, very narrow. Our contact told us that if we bumped anything, bad stuff would happen, not like tripping the reactors, but it would make alarms go off and cause a NRC investigation. I was getting hinky just walking thru it, let alone carrying our rodders and stuff. That was a gut wrenching job. Another time I had to fix a leaking roof drain line over a coal conveyor. Wet coal can spontaneously combust, that was a doozy as well.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

I had a close call with a live raccoon in the attic of an old train station


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## plumbmaster32 (Apr 10, 2013)

Plumberman said:


> Now all of a sudden you could care less about "my appearance" which I'm guessing you have this picture of me with a nappy braided beard and holes in my jeans and a stained shirt, which you would be completely off base.
> 
> Before I got out of the service world I bought some nice button down shirts and had the company I worked for embroider their logo on the front of them. No I don't tuck my shirt in, the reason why, I run wide open doing the day and it comes untucked regularly. Happens quite often when you crawl through basements or gotta rough in a job before the next call comes in. Numerous times tucking it in and it gets wrinkled so I didn't do it.
> 
> ...


Plumberman,

I never once said I gave two ****z how you dressed. Look back at my comments. You have a habit of only hearing or reading what you want so it supports your beliefs. What I said was that people in the day to day business world do care and will judge an individual/professional based on their appearance. I know you might get away with some of that in residential service but I defiantly not in medical plumbing service. Your a man full of excuses! It gets wrinkled or it becomes untucked. Blah blah! Let me slow down because you seem to work in slow motion... It is not just shirt tucked in. Any monkey can tuck his shirt in. If you believe that is what makes a professional then I am done wasting my breath. Lets agree to disagree. This discussion had become redundant and childish. Best of luck in all you do. And I mean that. No hard feelings. Just difference of opinion.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plumbmaster32 said:


> Plumberman,
> 
> I never once said I gave two ****z how you dressed. Look back at my comments. You have a habit of only hearing or reading what you want so it supports your beliefs. What I said was that people in the day to day business world do care and will judge an individual/professional based on their appearance. I know you might get away with some of that in residential service but I defiantly not in medical plumbing service. Your a man full of excuses! It gets wrinkled or it becomes untucked. Blah blah! Let me slow down because you seem to work in slow motion... It is not just shirt tucked in. Any monkey can tuck his shirt in. If you believe that is what makes a professional then I am done wasting my breath. Lets agree to disagree. This discussion had become redundant and childish. Best of luck in all you do. And I mean that. No hard feelings. Just difference of opinion.


I worked zero residential service the last 3 years..

What you call "medical plumbing service" is commercial service here. 

I took care of 3 large medical facilities in my area. 

I know what works here, you know what works where you are... 

Your right it has gotten redundant because you keep saying the same things.

I have zero excuses, I operate in facts and the facts are you know nothing about the areas I serviced, what my appearance was or how I handled my professionalism. 

Next time don't be so adamant on having a pecker measuring contest and the convo will go a lot smoother.


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I think the dress code issue has been beat to death and beyond what I was looking for when starting the thread.....


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

JWBII said:


> I think the dress code issue has been beat to death and beyond what I was looking for when starting the thread.....


Amen


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

JWBII said:


> I think the dress code issue has been beat to death and beyond what I was looking for when starting the thread.....


You are correct. We got off target.


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I got a good bag, a couple of new tools but since service is so versatile there's no way to pick a "most needed" one. I can't count how many times I've picked up and put back a tool over the weekend lol.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

JWBII said:


> I got a good bag, a couple of new tools but since service is so versatile there's no way to pick a "most needed" one. I can't count how many times I've picked up and put back a tool over the weekend lol.


After you run some calls you will see what you use most of the time and can plan accordingly.

If I had every tool I needed then I would have to pull up in a 18 wheeler rig.

You learn to improvise, trust me


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

Yeah I don't doubt that. You know how us guys are though..... We love to buy **** lol.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

JWBII said:


> Yeah I don't doubt that. You know how us guys are though..... We love to buy **** lol.


I don't supply tools when I get called out to work.

But that company credit card bought some pretty cool speciality tools

Lol


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

JWBII said:


> I got a good bag, a couple of new tools but since service is so versatile there's no way to pick a "most needed" one. I can't count how many times I've picked up and put back a tool over the weekend lol.


For me it's me reading glasses


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