# Clashing with other trades



## buschbandit (Nov 26, 2013)

The company I work for does sheet metal and plumbing so there are no issues with placement in new rough ins. We started working for a new builder and put our pressure tank in and tied our sewage tank in and came back to find our vents cut off by the heating guys and our brass manifold stripped back and moved so they could put their 3 loop in floor manifold there. What a piss off. Never seen anyone have random 3-4 loop manifolds all around the mech room. This is a million plus build too.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

You're not alone. I am sure it had happened with us all on new work. Question is, was it signed off? 

Got any pics?


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

Take photos. Check all prints and specifications regarding system layouts and whether your equipment was in anybody's way. If it wasn't you have what is known as vandalism and the offending contractor can pay for the labor to either re-install or revise the work that you've legitimately completed. Vandalism can involve the police, its does not fall into a grey area just because it happened on a construction site. Stooping to their level by slicing out their hacksmanship and reinstalling your systems would be ironic (and poetic justice) but is not recommended as its easily remedied by being professional about it. Considering their actions that means going over their head and presenting the bill for the rework to your client, who will most likely pound it out of them.

Do not let it slide, do not be shy about it or the offending hacks will feel free to do it again. 

Maybe I'm weird, but when I encounter a conflict between various other trades I actually consult with them and the GC and work out a solution before compulsively busting out their stuff. If they're obstinate and no other solution is feasible, its nice when the GC gives permission to bust out their stuff


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

If it can't be resolved decently, you can always piss in their screw tin. Lol


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## finkous (Dec 9, 2011)

pissin in the screw tin, hahhahaa... is that the same as takin a dump in the drywallers mud bucket??? cause i'm sure everyone has butted heads with the drywallers at some point


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

I had a carpenter put a sheet of Sheetrock up on a wall I was working on one time. We had a discussion and he removed it I went to go get some more copper to finish and when I got back he had put the sheet back on. I ask why he said he gave me five minuets and we don't move fast enough. They were apparently the judge on how fast we should ruff a wall in. At that point I lost it and three sheets of Sheetrock later he decided to give me more time. I told him I would finish after he cleaned the scraps of Sheetrock up.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

To cut their **** out...simple as that. I was on a job a few years back converting a furniture store into sushi restaurant and I had only one option to bring a 3" vent literally a slim margin of play as I couldn't go downward under a beam nor thru it, put it in...2 days later I come In super early and find my vent cut out and their newly installed duct work with which they had plenty of options to run but didn't want to make a bend. So before anyone got there I took a sawzall to it, removed and reinstalled my vent. Ac guy shows up and gets in my grill and I told him is 3hrs of your time replacing the duct worth a a few days in a dentists chair:laughing:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> To cut their **** out...simple as that


 I prefer to use my foot elbow and pipe wrench.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> I prefer to use my foot elbow and pipe wrench.


Exactly...I hit the post button before finishing the story


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

all the trades involved sould have a pow-wow about this before it gets out of hand... and get it ironed out 

 I have seen stuff done out 
of spite on jobs before where they hated each other and did some nasty stuff to each others work.....


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> all the trades involved sould have a pow-wow about this before it gets out of hand... and get it ironed out I have seen stuff done out of spite on jobs before where they hated each other and did some nasty stuff to each others work.....


 yes you are right but it does seem that there is one in the crowed that will revert back to first come first serve.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

The way I view it is every trade needs to have the work done but drains are #1 because they can't flow up hill or around obstacles. If water line is in the way of ductwork it can usually be moved easier than the ductwork.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

Coordination drawings.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

newyorkcity said:


> Coordination drawings.


Now, that's a great solution. Unfortunately, those don't appear out of thin air. The guy writing the checks has got to be convinced to *buy* into the idea.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

wyrickmech said:


> yes you are right but it does seem that there is one in the crowed that will revert back to first come first serve.


 

getting that one butt-hole on the job to play like a team member can be difficult.....

Someone threw a tennis ball down a 3 inch drain line one time on a condo project.... everyone had a good idea who did it but it could not be proven beyond a doubt....

 but they took it out on him anyway...:laughing::thumbup:

nasty deeds never go unpunished.....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> ...nasty deeds never go unpunished.....


...


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Worked on a hotel once where the electrician foreman thought his work had priority. Of course, we thought our work was priority. Constant bickering.
Begs to question, who has priority? Vent stacks and drains OR flexible romex wire and conduit OR HVAC duct work?


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

Cajunhiker said:


> Worked on a hotel once where the electrician foreman thought his work had priority. Of course, we thought our work was priority. Constant bickering.
> Begs to question, who has priority? Vent stacks and drains OR flexible romex wire and conduit OR HVAC duct work?


 Sometimes they lay it all out in the job manual. Usually conduit is pretty low on the list. It's almost always duct first then waste and vent then sprinkler then condensate drains. Water an electrical are usually pretty low on the priority list..


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Rando said:


> Sometimes they lay it all out in the job manual. Usually conduit is pretty low on the list. It's almost always duct first then waste and vent then sprinkler then condensate drains. Water an electrical are usually pretty low on the priority list..


 ya the thing is most trades can work it out except sheet rockers. They will always push you to a boiling point. Give you half the time that you need and let you know how much faster it would get done if they were doing it.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

wyrickmech said:


> ya the thing is most trades can work it out except sheet rockers. They will always push you to a boiling point. Give you half the time that you need and let you know how much faster it would get done if they were doing it.


I think tile guys can give rockers a run for their money as far as screwing up other people's work. 
How about superintendents who think getting as many people in one work area as possible is the most efficient way to build?

Then there's landscapers and painters. If you don't remove the handle on a shut down, you bound to have someone open the valve while the line is cut.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Plumbus said:


> I think tile guys can give rockers a run for their money as far as screwing up other people's work. How about superintendents who think getting as many people in one work area as possible is the most efficient way to build? Then there's landscapers and painters. If you don't remove the handle on a shut down, you bound to have someone open the valve while the line is cut.


 most of the superintendents are carpenters or concrete finishers that's why they push there part of the job with very little experience on the rest.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I always tell the builders that plumbers are the top dogs in the trades, I need to be in there first. If they put a tin knocker in front of me, the price of plumbing goes up..


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

A Forman I had told me his story about framers messing with his work. He said they had all their pipes roughed in and all lines about 3' above grade. He returned few weeks later after cement and some framing done. When he got there all his pipes were missing. Nothing there. He looked and wondered what happen. Then the framer told he he cut everything flush to the floor and he had to drill his own holes and finish his plumbing. After a few words back and forth, he said ok il show you how it's done. He went out got a Bob cat and ran over all the walls and knocked it all down. LOL framer didn't know what hit him he said.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

victoryplbaz said:


> A Forman I had told me his story about framers messing with his work. He said they had all their pipes roughed in and all lines about 3' above grade. He returned few weeks later after cement and some framing done. When he got there all his pipes were missing. Nothing there. He looked and wondered what happen. Then the framer told he he cut everything flush to the floor and he had to drill his own holes and finish his plumbing. After a few words back and forth, he said ok il show you how it's done. He went out got a Bob cat and ran over all the walls and knocked it all down. LOL framer didn't know what hit him he said.


 I would say that was what we call a learning experance.lol


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I did something similar to that years ago, 'cept the framer ripped out all my copper drops on a high rise & bent them out of his way so that he could install the steel studs. I went & grabbed a target saw & cut every wall in half.
The superintendent told me I had a bad attitude & fired me.

I still think it was funny.


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## wallingford (Nov 16, 2013)

I usually get along decently well with 98% of the workers but something i can't take is the electricians (when putting up temporary light and heat) that leave the electric panels coverless with the wires pluggged straight out... Make a wrong move with a ladder or a piece of abs/pvc and you're dead. I'm an apprentice so i try not complaining too much but the dangerous stuff i don't accept.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

wallingford said:


> I usually get along decently well with 98% of the workers but something i can't take is the electricians (when putting up temporary light and heat) that leave the electric panels coverless with the wires pluggged straight out... Make a wrong move with a ladder or a piece of abs/pvc and you're dead. I'm an apprentice so i try not complaining too much but the dangerous stuff i don't accept.


 I'm an electrical apprentice and even for temporary electric that's a huge no no.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

wallingford said:


> I usually get along decently well with 98% of the workers but something i can't take is the electricians (when putting up temporary light and heat) that leave the electric panels coverless with the wires pluggged straight out... Make a wrong move with a ladder or a piece of abs/pvc and you're dead. I'm an apprentice so i try not complaining too much but the dangerous stuff i don't accept.


Our electricians always put the covers back on. They wire temp. Stuff just like they do perminate stuff. 
We are a plumbing, heating and electrical company so we can coordinate the jobs pretty good. Although sometimes we miss stuff. We just take apart and move what we need then re install it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

When the framers do something like cut your stubs, you're not very smart to damage their stuff. If you took pictures of your rough, which you should of, you march to the GCs office and tell him to get ready to bend over. Then you fix every single one on a nice fat extra. I get way more pleasure out of submitting a fat extra than damaging their stuff. You take someone's screw up, and lessen the amount of your extra by doing that.


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## TXPlumbBob (Dec 13, 2013)

The priorities usually go, Waste/Condensate, Duct, Vent, Sprinkler, Water/Electrical. 

We always told the GC they always drag ass on the structure but once the flag flies they hammer the MEPs to get finished. 

Had a concrete crew pouring a high rise with hoses. These are 5-6" hoses full of concrete laying on the deck and have to be moved by hand. Not easy. We had large bathroom batteries of sleeves and when they got to the first one they just mowed them down. The assistant super, the concrete foreman and myself had a little pow wow and I explained to them the concrete coring would be back charged to the concrete finshers. The Super agreed. I then told the concrete guy that I had four helpers there to man the pour and if they needed help lifting the hoses over the sleeves to grab my guys and they would be happy to help. We did not have another incident until the last pour. One of the finishers pulled the tape off a drain at the bottom of the parking garage and flushed all the concrete slurry into the drain. The GC kept asking what I was going to do about it and I kept telling them nothing. It was a concrete problem not mine. I don't know if it ever got fixed. 
I have hundreds of stories of framers, concrete placers, painters, sheetrockers being dicks and tearing stuff up. Not so much other MEP trades. 

I was once one that pushed "my way or the highway" on a job. I learned by hard knocks it was so much easier to talk first and act later.


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## Ishmael (Dec 9, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> When the framers do something like cut your stubs, you're not very smart to damage their stuff. If you took pictures of your rough, which you should of, you march to the GCs office and tell him to get ready to bend over. Then you fix every single one on a nice fat extra. I get way more pleasure out of submitting a fat extra than damaging their stuff. You take someone's screw up, and lessen the amount of your extra by doing that.


Correct. And tell them THEY need to remove the framing so that you can chip out the concrete beneath in order to couple onto whatever's left.


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