# Dusted off the tools



## plumbdrum

Dusted off the tools after a couple of years to help out a friend. Did I pass?


























I'll finish it off next weekend and do the switch over from the old system after it's been wired.


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## Flyout95

Eh.


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## plumbdrum

Flyout95 said:


> Eh.



I'll use lead and oakum next time


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## Flyout95

Wiped joints.


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## bct p&h

That's pretty much how I used to pipe them when I first started doing navians, aside from hard piping the bypass for purging. I would purge it with a washing machine hose from the domestic side to the boiler side. I didn't trust homeowners enough to not open a bypass valve.
The last few I put in I used the navian manifold, NOT the Raven brand one. They seem to run a lot smoother with the factory manifold.


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## Redwood

Did it pass inspection?:laughing:


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## plumbdrum

bct p&h said:


> That's pretty much how I used to pipe them when I first started doing navians, aside from hard piping the bypass for purging. I would purge it with a washing machine hose from the domestic side to the boiler side. I didn't trust homeowners enough to not open a bypass valve.
> The last few I put in I used the navian manifold, NOT the Raven brand one. They seem to run a lot smoother with the factory manifold.




I'm going to take the handle of the bypass valve after purging. The Navien manifold is nice but expensive so I decided to pipe the primary loop.


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## plumbdrum

Redwood said:


> Did it pass inspection?:laughing:



Ha, haven't had it yet, maybe tomorrow. He better pass or he won't pass his inspections with me. Lol. I think I'll pass.😛😛😛


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## bct p&h

plumbdrum said:


> I'm going to take the handle of the bypass valve after purging. The Navien manifold is nice but expensive so I decided to pipe the primary loop.


If I remember correctly they're about $300? The webstone isolation valves with pressure relief is around $100. Throw in a couple tees, 90s and pipe, you're closer to $200. Now throw in some labor and you're right around the $300 mark. 
If you're doing it for a friend and trying to get him out cheap it's one thing. If you're trying to get in and out quick, I'd use the manifold.
Like I said, they seem to run a lot smoother with the factory manifold. They don't ramp up and down nearly as much.
With or without the manifold they always seemed to be temperamental about gas pressures. Every single one I did that had a regulator at the meter had to be adjusted or they would whistle and bang.
Hard to see in the picture but what did you use for venting?


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## plumbdrum

Cpvc exhaust, PVC intake.


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## chonkie

Can't wait to see the after pics of how you fixed that hacked up mess. Just messin with you. How did you get the pex that color? Ah, just messin with you again. But seriously, how did you like working with that copper glue? Looks real good, nice craftmanship. You should dust off your tools more often.


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## plumbdrum

chonkie said:


> Can't wait to see the after pics of how you fixed that hacked up mess. Just messin with you. How did you get the pex that color? Ah, just messin with you again. But seriously, how did you like working with that copper glue? Looks real good, nice craftmanship. You should dust off your tools more often.



You can't beat the one step copper glue and the copper paint rated for pec installs. Thanks mr Cronk


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## Tommy plumber

Looks good.........for a side job.....:laughing:


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## plumbdrum

Tommy plumber said:


> Looks good.........for a side job.....:laughing:


It's not a side job if your not getting paid. Call it pro bono.


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## Letterrip

Nice to see you back up some of that talk plumbdrum!! That's purty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## plumbdrum

Letterrip said:


> Nice to see you back up some of that talk plumbdrum!! That's purty.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thank you sir. I can back it up, I was and guess still am a good plumber just got sick of the business. I love my job now.


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## mtfallsmikey

plumbdrum said:


> I'll use lead and oakum next time


 Need me to bring my offset yarning and driving irons?


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## plumbdrum

mtfallsmikey said:


> Need me to bring my offset yarning and driving irons?



Nope, I've got them already


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## BOBBYTUCSON

Fkn fabulous install


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## moonapprentice

No vacuum breaker on drain, gas drip leg, shock arrestor on laundry. Fail. Red tag


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## wyrickmech

Lol this is going to be good.


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## chonkie

moonapprentice said:


> No vacuum breaker on drain, gas drip leg, shock arrestor on laundry. Fail. Red tag


Looks like a gas trash leg right here. That one step is messing with your eyes. Other stuff depends on his local codes.


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## moonapprentice

Length of drip leg


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## wyrickmech

moonapprentice said:


> No vacuum breaker on drain, gas drip leg, shock arrestor on laundry. Fail. Red tag


 vacuum breaker is not needed. The system is not domestic and is already protected from domestic. Gas drip leg is ok because it has s twice the Leigh of the diameter of the feed line. And you are right on the washer if it was a system being worked on but it isn't. Good try.


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## moonapprentice

Twice the diameter is not found


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## moonapprentice

Should be labeled not domestic, not for drinking. An uniformed person could get water from the drain


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## chonkie

moonapprentice said:


> Twice the diameter is not found


Nice pic of info that can't be read.


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## moonapprentice

A responsible plumber would talk the homeowner into installing hammer arrestor for function and code reasons.


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## moonapprentice

You know what it says though


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## chonkie

moonapprentice said:


> You know what it says though


No I don't, considering I have no clue where you got the pic from. For all I know, it was a blank pic that you added text to.

If you're going to add a pic with text as proof of something, make sure it's legible, simple enough.


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## moonapprentice

Hmmmm... pretty basic....National fuel gas code. 4" minimum nip


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## chonkie

moonapprentice said:


> Hmmmm... pretty basic....National fuel gas code. 4" minimum nip


Not my point ... and if it's basic, why did you post an illegible pic as your ammo for this troll session? What did it prove?


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## moonapprentice

To get you worked up


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## chonkie

If you're trying to bust plumbdrum on the codes inforced in his state/city, you will need to post better supporting documentation.


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## chonkie

Funny thing is, I'm not worked up. Just having a discussion with you. It would take you coming here and doing hack work for me to get worked up.


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## moonapprentice

The picture is correct. Blurry, yes. Out of my control after posted. You should have known dirt leg length anyways. Take a day off and go review


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## moonapprentice

Hack=chonkie=incompetent


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## moonapprentice

It's not all code. It's plumbing etiquette


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## chonkie

It's always good to review and refresh the vast amount of knowledge needed in plumbing.


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## Gargalaxy

Who's buying the popcorn today? BTW is an air break or air gap


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## chonkie

Well One-Step, this has been kind of fun, but I've gotta run. Keep the trolling motor warmed up, I'm sure you'll catch more flack from the others.


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## wyrickmech

moonapprentice said:


> Hmmmm... pretty basic....National fuel gas code. 4" minimum nip


 well if you're going by that it says a minimum of 3 inches not four. Figure 9.6.7


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## wyrickmech

And judging by the ball valve he would be code compliant. Marking heating water is a good idea but it is only done after insulated.


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## moonapprentice

3" hub to hub... =4" nip


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## moonapprentice

Now what are you bringing up about the ball valve?


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## moonapprentice

Only mark if insulated??? OK yeah with stickers.... if uninsulated use tags


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## plumberkc

moonapprentice said:


> No vacuum breaker on drain, gas drip leg, shock arrestor on laundry. Fail. Red tag


At least he didn't pull images off google and claim the as his own.


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## moonapprentice

If you are referring to a past thread, that was intentional. There were things wrong and I posted it because some people all they want to do is rip it apart. And makes for good entertainment


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## moonapprentice

As to your recent post here, you did not comment on the subject being talked about. Just made a dumb comment.That is what this forum is about now, dumb comments.


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## wyrickmech

moonapprentice said:


> 3" hub to hub... =4" nip


 nope it doesn't state anything about makeup or hub to hub. Three inch nipple or a suitable alternative to this method.


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## wyrickmech

moonapprentice said:


> Now what are you bringing up about the ball valve?


 just using it to gage the Leigh of the drip leg.


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## wyrickmech

moonapprentice said:


> Only mark if insulated??? OK yeah with stickers.... if uninsulated use tags


 heat lines are isolated from domestic in residential setting you hardly ever see them marked. Most of the time that is a Cubs job and it never gets done because we can't hold there hand all of the time.


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## moonapprentice

It doesn't state. But the arrows to the lines is what says 3". Suit yourself


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## moonapprentice

Gargalaxy said:


> Who's buying the popcorn today? BTW is an air break or air gap


Air gap for tnp valve discharge pipe, no more than 6" above floor or waste receptor. This appears to discharge to floor above 6". Good eye gargalaxy


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## moonapprentice

wyrickmech said:


> heat lines are isolated from domestic in residential setting you hardly ever see them marked. Most of the time that is a Cubs job and it never gets done because we can't hold there hand all of the time.


You are absolutely right. But good plumbers etiquette would be to label pipes for the homeowners saftey that most likely will not know if it is drinkable or not.


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## PPRI

moonapprentice said:


> No vacuum breaker on drain, gas drip leg, shock arrestor on laundry. Fail. Red tag


What in the hell is this doing on a professional forum? This isn't 4th grade recess anymore my friend. If this is a non potable heating system there is no requirement of a vacuum breaker on the drain outlet. Maybe the system is protected with an rpz at the meter. 

There is no minimum length for a sediment trap according to national fuel code. Maybe international. If it is a condensate drip leg like you call it, it is too short. Chances of there being a requirement of that are slim to none. 

I'm tired of grown men acting like they're 10. I have a whole house full of kids to give me that crap. I come here for intelligent, professional conversations.

Rant over.


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## wyrickmech

moonapprentice said:


> You are absolutely right. But good plumbers etiquette would be to label pipes for the homeowners saftey that most likely will not know if it is drinkable or not.



It's non potable water and is protected. If you will look you will see. As far as labeling it's a good practice.


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## wyrickmech

PPRI said:


> What in the hell is this doing on a professional forum? This isn't 4th grade recess anymore my friend. If this is a non potable heating system there is no requirement of a vacuum breaker on the drain outlet. Maybe the system is protected with an rpz at the meter.
> 
> There is no minimum length for a sediment trap according to national fuel code. Maybe international. If it is a condensate drip leg like you call it, it is too short. Chances of there being a requirement of that are slim to none.
> 
> I'm tired of grown men acting like they're 10. I have a whole house full of kids to give me that crap. I come here for intelligent, professional conversations.
> 
> Rant over.



If you would look there is a double check in the photo. He is a young apprentice. He doesn't know better.


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## bct p&h

As far as the state of Massachusetts is concerned, there is nothing wrong with his install. Aside from labeling the intake and exhaust.
The laundry water piping looks existing and he just screwed the drop ells to his board.
No need for a vacuum breaker on the boiler piping. How would you pump antifreeze in if you needed to?
I've never seen anyone fail for the length of a drip. 3", 4" are you holding a scale ruler up to your screen?
Could be wrong here but I'm pretty sure if a blow down is dumping on the ground and not into a drain it is supposed to terminate between 6 and 12 inches above the ground, not within 6".


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## plumbdrum

moonapprentice said:


> Hmmmm... pretty basic....National fuel gas code. 4" minimum nip


Moonboy, good to see you back. It's a 3 1/2" nipple, NFPA 54 which is the code we use is a min of 3". Job was passed, . Nice try though


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## chonkie

Hey One-Step, this is what you should have posted to prove your point. And it is also the point I was trying to make earlier. So far, the times you've been asked for proof of something, what you have provided has been crap. Expired, blurry, etc.

I knew what the pic was that you posted, but your excuse for the blurriness of it being out of your control after you posted is crap too. Use a better pic to start with next time. Notice how this one is nice and clear and legible.

Hell, just cite the code location like wyrickmech did and you don't need to post a blurry pic.


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## plumbdrum

He would have to wake up 3 days early to stump me or anyone else on here.


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## Gargalaxy

plumbdrum said:


> He would have to wake up 3 days early to stump me or anyone else on here.


Please Mr. Plumbdrum, don't be so hard with him, he's your number one fan :laughing:


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## plumbdrum

Gargalaxy said:


> Please Mr. Plumbdrum, don't be so hard with him, he's your number one fan :laughing:



He could be the president of my fan club. I have a lot a fans around my way.


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## Michaelcookplum

Moon he may be under different code then you, the international fuel and gas code has NO minimum length required, it could be from a close nipple on up. And he may not even have wet gas, therefore his tee may be a sediment trap. Which would also not have a required minimum length. You do know the difference between the two don't you?


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## plumbdrum

Michaelcookplum said:


> Moon he may be under different code then you, the international fuel and gas code has NO minimum length required, it could be from a close nipple on up. And he may not even have wet gas, therefore his tee may be a sediment trap. Which would also not have a required minimum length. You do know the difference between the two don't you?


So he may not even have wet gas? You do know the difference between a drip and a sediment trap right? Also moonboy stated a min of a 4" nipple measuring hub to hub, to which that would be up to interpretation. Now NFPA 54 does not give a minimum measurement on a drip but it does on a sediment trap.we could go back and forth on this all day, bottom line the nipple and cap that I installed on the install met my and the inspectors interpretation of the code regarding the length of the sediment trap. Now that being said, here in the Northeast where it gets cold gas equipment in attics and outside I dont require sediment traps in freezing locations even though the gas is dry, I have asked propane company's and local gas co. To provide a letter stating there is no moisture in their gas to which nobody will, ya ya I know not a drip on the equipment or is it????


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## mtfallsmikey

Michaelcookplum said:


> Moon he may be under different code then you, the international fuel and gas code has NO minimum length required, it could be from a close nipple on up. And he may not even have wet gas, therefore his tee may be a sediment trap. Which would also not have a required minimum length. You do know the difference between the two don't you?


Always used a 6" nipple on the drip leg... if I had room.


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## Michaelcookplum

plumbdrum said:


> So he may not even have wet gas? You do know the difference between a drip and a sediment trap right? Also moonboy stated a min of a 4" nipple measuring hub to hub, to which that would be up to interpretation. Now NFPA 54 does not give a minimum measurement on a drip but it does on a sediment trap.we could go back and forth on this all day, bottom line the nipple and cap that I installed on the install met my and the inspectors interpretation of the code regarding the length of the sediment trap. Now that being said, here in the Northeast where it gets cold gas equipment in attics and outside I dont require sediment traps in freezing locations even though the gas is dry, I have asked propane company's and local gas co. To provide a letter stating there is no moisture in their gas to which nobody will, ya ya I know not a drip on the equipment or is it????



Sediment traps make gas change direction where the sediment collects, drip legs are put anywhere where condensation could collect.
And your right this is another case of your way my way. It passes in my good and glad it did in yours. Great quality work


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## Michaelcookplum

See we can all be right from time to time

















Ps, I stole the first pic from chonkie, it should be visible


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## plumbdrum

Ha, love it


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