# "Keep all the piping in the ceiling joists!"



## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Working on a residential remodel project and the GC doesn't think he should have to drop the ceiling for my pipes. Hell, the A/C guy hasn't started, I know he's going to need some space!!

A few primer drips, but I'm getting better. I'm not as good as some of the Primer Nazis on the board, but this is a huge improvement over my first photos here.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

What the ????

Buy yourself a right angle drill and get some of those pipes in the floor joist...


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

I always review structurals at underground!
If you have a raised foundation some changes can be made to minimize drilling.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Why can't you drill those joists?


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> What the ????
> 
> Buy yourself a right angle drill and get some of those pipes in the floor joist...


We're not allowed to drill them here (clear
Lumber)
Can only drill TGI floor joists.


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

They're all 2x6's!!

They're converting the attic to a 2nd floor master. The laundry is upstairs:


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

And the master bath. Free standing tub w/ no waste & overflow. Lavs will be on the side walls and the tub centered on the window. Walk in shower with no body spray, only 1 shower valve. Dumb IMO.


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

We've been allowed to drill those micro-lams in the past, I don't remember what brand and I doubt they are all the same.. The builder needed manufacturers engineer to sign off on what was allowed (ahead of time). Inspector met engineer on site.
Here's what they wanted in my area..
Middle 1/3 of the lenght/span and middle 1/3 of the beam height.
1 3/4 hole can go anywhere in the span, but has to stay in the middle of it's height.
All rules change for cantilevered spans.

Your not going to get a 2" pvc through a 2x6 while staying in the middle third. 

Not saying it's done the way I would have done it. But I don't think drilling would have been allowed (if they are even 2x6's) not all manufacturers are the same I know (but they can't be that different)


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

I type really slow.. Didn't see the new pics.. Second floor looks good!! 
Not too much space to work with up there.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Couldn't you have kept some of those drain lines up in the ceiling & run over to a wall. That way you just have a soffett to deal with instead of the pipes hanging down across the ceiling in the middle of the room?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Looks good to me

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

hroark2112 said:


> And the master bath.* Free standing tub w/ no waste & overflow.* Lavs will be on the side walls and the tub centered on the window. Walk in shower with no body spray, only 1 shower valve. Dumb IMO.


No waste, I guess they bucket it out. :laughing:


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

how long is that shower arm? they are not microlams are they ?


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

surfdog said:


> how long is that shower arm? they are not microlams are they ?


I haven't started the water yet. They are laminated 2x6's. There's no way to run a 3" pipe through them.

The house was an abandoned house in the 'hood, they've gutted the whole thing and added on to the back.

I'll post pics from the crawlspace when I finish there. Water will be PEX, nothing difficult there.


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> No waste, I guess they bucket it out. :laughing:


I've never done one of these tubs, drain looks like a vessel sink drain. I had to look it up!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

hroark2112 said:


> I haven't started the water yet. They are laminated 2x6's. There's no way to run a 3" pipe through them.


 




I am with you. I don't like to butcher any load-bearing floor joists.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

hroark2112 said:


> I've never done one of these tubs, drain looks like a vessel sink drain. I had to look it up!


 Which tub is that?

I've done a lot of freestanding tubs over the years, drop me a PM if you need some advice.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Doing one of those tubs right now. Just as easy as any claw tub


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I have a 600lb cast iron pedestal tub I have to install pretty soon. Valve is free standing from the floor with wall bracket supports. Should be interesting to install. This one is on a slab. I hope I roughed it in right. It's going to be sitting on 1/2" commercial grade porcelain tile. I have 8 holes to drill through that stuff for the supply line brackets. Real Victorian looking stuff. A package deal the customer got from vintage tubs. Com.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I have a 600lb cast iron pedestal tub I have to install pretty soon. Valve is free standing from the floor with wall bracket supports. Should be interesting to install. This one is on a slab. I hope I roughed it in right. It's going to be sitting on 1/2" commercial grade porcelain tile. I have 8 holes to drill through that stuff for the supply line brackets. Real Victorian looking stuff. A package deal the customer got from vintage tubs. Com.



That'll be a fun install. 

The enameled cast iron is a lot nicer to set than the featherweight acrylic stuff. Also, the wall brackets for the faucet et al is great too. The completely free standing valves with no wall support never feel quite right to me.


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## rusak (Sep 20, 2008)

I wouldn't drill 2x6 floor joists for anything bigger than 1.5"


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I have a 600lb cast iron pedestal tub I have to install pretty soon. Valve is free standing from the floor with wall bracket supports. Should be interesting to install. This one is on a slab. I hope I roughed it in right. It's going to be sitting on 1/2" commercial grade porcelain tile. I have 8 holes to drill through that stuff for the supply line brackets. Real Victorian looking stuff. A package deal the customer got from vintage tubs. Com.



600 lbs. on the c/i tub, is it a jacuzzi tub? Could ya post pics, it sounds really cool.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

hroark2112 said:


> They're all 2x6's!!
> 
> They're converting the attic to a 2nd floor master. The laundry is upstairs:


 
2X6" for floor joists?????


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## Anonymous (Jan 7, 2012)

Associated Plum said:


> 2X6" for floor joists?????


Really what can the span be on 2x6 floor joist .... maybe 6 ft...:blink:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

rusak said:


> I wouldn't drill 2x6 floor joists for anything bigger than 1.5"


Will you sit in the full tub..... :laughing:


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## rusak (Sep 20, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Will you sit in the full tub..... :laughing:


Nope not happening :no:


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## drain surgeon (Jun 17, 2010)

Well you certainly cant drill a 3 inch hole in a 2x6 and it looks like the original ceiling height gives you plenty of room to do a drop ceiling. Sometimes you just have to "explain" things to the GC then stand your ground. I walked away from a job where the homeowner wanted what she wanted and wasnt taking direction from some low life plumber. Those older homes can be a real PITA to work on.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

Anonymous said:


> Really what can the span be on 2x6 floor joist .... maybe 6 ft...:blink:


Thats why they spec'd micros and so many of them.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

drain surgeon said:


> Well you certainly cant drill a 3 inch hole in a 2x6 and it looks like the original ceiling height gives you plenty of room to do a drop ceiling. Sometimes you just have to "explain" things to the GC then stand your ground. I walked away from a job where the homeowner wanted what she wanted and wasnt taking direction from some low life plumber. Those older homes can be a real PITA to work on.




Those HO's can be a pain too.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

drain surgeon said:


> Well you certainly cant drill a 3 inch hole in a 2x6 and it looks like the original ceiling height gives you plenty of room to do a drop ceiling. Sometimes you just have to "explain" things to the GC then stand your ground. I walked away from a job where the homeowner wanted what she wanted and wasnt taking direction from some low life plumber. Those older homes can be a real PITA to work on.


I used to say I'd love to buy an old Victorian or Craftsman and renovate it. Untill I worked on a few of them that is.....:no:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I have a 600lb cast iron pedestal tub I have to install pretty soon. Valve is free standing from the floor with wall bracket supports. Should be interesting to install. This one is on a slab. I hope I roughed it in right. It's going to be sitting on 1/2" commercial grade porcelain tile. I have 8 holes to drill through that stuff for the supply line brackets. Real Victorian looking stuff. A package deal the customer got from vintage tubs. Com.


use these to drill your holes in porcelin tile. They go through that, granite and any other hard material.

Amazon.com: DIAMOND TILE DRILL BITS (RIDGID): Home Improvement


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Here is the P I T A. I came very close to throwing that faucet into the lake behind that house.


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## seanny deep (Jan 28, 2012)

Iv installed similer tubs and faucets that looks great i installed a few of those faucets i like the wall brackets on that one i never got those with any of mine. "what a pain in the ass they were" my question is how did you connect them in slab my last one had a bracket that went under the floor with nuts and then an mip threaded into it. I'm guessing you had mip that are under the escusion on the bottom of the risers?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Wings ells screwed to pt 2x4 under slab. Faucet base connections are 1/2" iron pipe. Believe when i say that valve was designed for an off grade foundation. Came with threaded thin Chinese brass nipples. They were for these different escuseons that had to thread onto the brass nipples and meet at the base of the valve bodies. I threw those and the threaded escuseons in the garbage. Bought two BN escuseons and used 2 - 4.5 inch galcnized nipples. Every joint on that freaking valve leaked with Teflon and t+2 dope. Re did with number 5 dope and Teflon and no drips as of yet. no instructions, parts loose in box, no back flow device for hand held. Ordered omen back flow device for hand held. Closest match to that finish that I could find.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

I know you said there were no instructions but was there any owner manual? Is the back-flow devise possibly integral to the actual hand-held? Do you have manufacturer contact info. for verification? I had an inspector on-site ready to red-tag my job until I got manufacturer on phone to verify that faucet met all necessary approvals, i.e. ASS-ME, ASTM, BFD, etc., etc..


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

BTW, like Seanny asked, where did ya get the wall brackets? Did you get 'em, have h.o. get 'em, or through some miracle of God was your h.o. smart enough to order 'em with the faucet?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

THe wall brackets came with the faucet.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

The hand held shower drips water on the floor when stowed in its bracket. 

I can't say as I like that. It seems to be too far from the tub.

All IMHO of course:thumbup:


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

ILPlumber said:


> The hand held shower drips water on the floor when stowed in its bracket.
> 
> I can't say as I like that. It seems to be too far from the tub.
> 
> All IMHO of course:thumbup:




Yup, I wonder how long before the owners start stowing it in the tub..
I think that's why rockstar was wondering about back flow protection..

Also since the fill valve and handles line up with the edge of the tub (as they should) I say design flaw, bad spot for the cradle.. 

If straight hot is the last thing run though the handheld before stowed it will/should drip less than if it were cold water trapped in the hose.. But will still drip on the floor, been there brother!


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

CTs2p2 said:


> Yup, I wonder how long before the owners start stowing it in the tub..
> *I think that's why rockstar was wondering about back flow protection*..
> 
> Also since the fill valve and handles line up with the edge of the tub (as they should) I say design flaw, bad spot for the cradle..
> ...


We would have to install an acorn style vacuum breaker on the hose/valve connection up here in Washington.


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> We would have to install an acorn style vacuum breaker on the hose/valve connection up here in Washington.



Even if protection is integrated in the faucet itself?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

CTs2p2 said:


> Even if protection is integrated in the faucet itself?


No, not if it's already protected. It's pretty rare that I see protection integrated into the faucet, though, especially on Euro designed faucets.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> The hand held shower drips water on the floor when stowed in its bracket.
> 
> I can't say as I like that. It seems to be too far from the tub.
> 
> All IMHO of course:thumbup:


Your absolutely right about the handheld. We had every thing delivered before I even began to rough in. Home owner did not like how far faucet traveled into tub space for handheld to drip into tub instead of floor. Also the height of the valve is rather tall to me. No way to shorten either with flanged risers coming out of shut off valves from floor. I tried to get her to buy a similar tub with deck mount valve but I think she is clearly showing off money with this piece. It looks great but is not very practical. Also valve is not pressure balanced. Waiting for backsplash to be finished above stove to install pot filler before final inspection and I am pretty sure a mixing valve will have to go on separate water heater for master bath if inspector catches it.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Waiting for backsplash to be finished above stove to install pot filler before final inspection and I am pretty sure a mixing valve will have to go on separate water heater for master bath if inspector catches it.


 We would definitely have to install a tempering valve with integral checks here.

I usually install them in the vanity or behind an access panel in a closet.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Your absolutely right about the handheld. We had every thing delivered before I even began to rough in. Home owner did not like how far faucet traveled into tub space for handheld to drip into tub instead of floor. Also the height of the valve is rather tall to me. No way to shorten either with flanged risers coming out of shut off valves from floor. I tried to get her to buy a similar tub with deck mount valve but I think she is clearly showing off money with this piece. It looks great but is not very practical. Also valve is not pressure balanced. Waiting for backsplash to be finished above stove to install pot filler before final inspection and I am pretty sure a mixing valve will have to go on separate water heater for master bath if inspector catches it.


You mean your inspector didn't look for the mixing valve on rough-inspection? A 2-handle tub faucet would not have passed rough inspection without documentable proof of some sort of mixing valve.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

You can buy a pressure balancing valve that cuts into the h and c supply of the tub below the floor. 1/2" npt ins and outs....


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Remodel. Was mentioned to builder. Said let it ride. Asked what worse case would be, mixing valve at water heater. 

How we made it this far as a species with all the years and valves out there that are not pressure balanced is way beyond my mental capacity!


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Remodel. Was mentioned to builder. Said let it ride. Asked what worse case would be, mixing valve at water heater.


We use to be able to put a single tempering valve on the water heater and call it a day.

These days they require a separate tempering valve for each non thermostatic tub valve. It can get to be a bit spendy on the larger jobs.


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