# So I guess bradford white is the only one now.



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

As far as gas heaters go anyway:

Made in mexico


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

the new AO Smith with the honeywell that I installed today was Made in America


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Also, I seem to remember someone saying a few years back that rheem was bought out by mexican standard er uh American standard and rheems quality was headed south.

Can't remember who said that though :whistling2:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Did it have the crappy whirlpool gas control valve?



GREENPLUM said:


> the new AO Smith with the honeywell that I installed today was Made in America


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Protech said:


> Did it have the crappy whirlpool gas control valve?


click to zoom in on the valve

http://www.hotwater.com/uploadedima...s/residential_water_heaters/ultra-low_nox.jpg


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Looks good. The problem is the sticker up on the top.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Lochinvar is made in America.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Lochinvar is made in America.


Yeah, but they were just bought out by AO Smith.........


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Maybe the sticker was made in Mexico. :laughing:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Politics aside. Does something being Made in Mexico make it inferior? If so proof please. 

I'm all for buying American and thereby supporting American workers.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Indie said:


> Politics aside. Does something being Made in Mexico make it inferior? If so proof please.
> 
> I'm all for buying American and thereby supporting American workers.


Politics aside, when someone uses the cheapest of everything, something has to suffer. Using the cheapest labor and the cheapest materials, with little to no accountability and/or no oversight, will result in poor quality. It is impossible to provide the best quality for the cheapest price. 

It's not just Mexican made products - it's all foreign made products IMO.

China exported toys to the U.S. with lead based paint. That does not fly here and hasn't for a long time. However, how much would you really care about quality if someone were only willing to pay you enough that you could barely survive? 

As Americans, we are definitely getting what we pay for (and it isn't much).


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Indie, 

I guess garbage product can be made anywhere in the world...

It comes with the territory when you try to figure out just how low you can get your manufacturing costs on a product...

Go for the cheapest labor you can find and don't pay them much.... They won't care!

Chop the quality control budget and save more... You'll have more product shipped out and sold... Let the consumer complain and send back what they judge to be defective, they will probably miss a lot of the defects....

Take for instance this American Standard "I-Lean" Toilet Hecho en Mexico....










Quality Control was on siesta.....:laughing:

Or, Maybe the Am Std. sinks from that double lav job I did earlier this year...
2 sinks with a glaring difference in the color....
Pulled them back out went to the supply house went through their entire stock of 8 without a matching pair...

The rep came with 3 more in his car and still not a matching pair...
We were all over Central America and Mexico without a match... :laughing:

The rep finally did come back with a matching pair several days later...:whistling2:

Is it Mexico that is the problem or, a company that has just gone too cheap?

I don't know! 
Frankly I don't care much anymore...
I've just got a growing number of manufacturers that are on my "Ah Shiot List" where I just don't use their stuff any more....


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Indie,
> 
> I guess garbage product can be made anywhere in the world...
> 
> ...


right, and since rheem is now mexican standard er...uhhh...american standard, they have followed suit.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

There is no doubt in my mind that many foreign made products are crap, and I am sure that it is due to lax standards. My question has been answered quite well. 

I don't carry Rheem so I have no dog in this fight, except to say I am highly disappointed with many of the manufacturers, not because they move operations to another country, as that is just prudent business. My problem is the lower standards. 

Its like every-time I buy copper, and copper fittings. Its a guarantee that when I put foreign made copper together it will be loose. That just gets on my nerves. You take a thin copper like M, and cheapen it up just a bit more. 


Not sure how long it will take, but I suspect things will turn around eventually. I know many of my customers are tired of buying inferior products, most have been down that road, and get just a little pissed when a 5 year old faucet is looking like junk, and a 10 year old water heater is in need of replacement.


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Lochinvar is made in America.


(AS many of you know) Only because it was manufactured by Bradford White for Lochinvar which will change or end obviously.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Mexico and China could care less what we buy. Why is everyone talking about what they are selling? Mexico or China would not sell  if we did not buy it. It is just easier for us to blame someone besides ourselves I guess. If we quit buying junk from overseas, and quit punishing companies with excessive rules and taxes for being located here. No offence to anyone here but the Unions have played their role in the destruction of American made products. Not trying to make this a union vs non debate, just pointing out that is the reason some companies have moved overseas. This country is no longer a super power, with our military spread so thin, and our budget even thinner. 

We need to start a true campaign to buy american made and support american jobs.

Maybe then American Standard will not be made in Mexico.

I have always wondered why we lock up our inmates 23 hours per day? Think about what a big work force that would be, and how much taxpayer burden it could ease. Why not have a factory in every prison? I bet most would volunteer to work there, better that doing nothing? The prison factory could turn out an American made product, and generate an actual profit for the prison. The prison would no longer need taxpayer money and people may think twice about commiting crime if they have to work. 

We need to encourage compaines to come back or stay in the U.S.

The money cycle has broken. 

Used to be Bill owned a local shop, he ordered his supplies from a local rep and dealer. Bill bought all his business and personal goods locally. So money went from Bill's local customers to him, and then bill gives it right back to them for the goods he needs. 

Now days Thor (the guy with orange hair) owns a local shop. He buys all his products from a rep 10 states over, and all his product comes from china. He does most of his shopping online, or in the bigger city a few miles away. So now local people spend their money with Thor, and he takes that money sends it to china, and all over the world wide web. Thor will be struggling before long because, his customers will have less money. All because Thor does not buy locally. 

This is what is really going on right now, the more money we spend overseas, the less money there is in our economy.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Indie,
> 
> I guess garbage product can be made anywhere in the world...
> 
> ...


The toilet is fine. It's that made in china level:chinese:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Though I understand your point, bringing the jobs back to America won't completely fix it. 

Personally, I believe the mindset of the manufacturers has changed. When manufacturers were young, one/two generations old, the original owner's vision, blood, sweat, and tears permeated business operations. The manufacturer was in business to serve the needs of the end user. If they did it well, they grew and expanded their lines.

Corporate conglomerates with investors have a different goal. Their goal is to make money for the investors. The end user is no longer the focus. The focus is on producing great returns for their investors.

Years ago, in order to grow and compete in the market, you had to offer something better than your competition (whether that be quality, service, or price). Now a days, to grow and compete, you buy out a competitor and reduce competition.

IMO, they are all too large and have lost touch. I really do not believe those days will ever come back. There is very little pride in a job well done, or producing an exceptional product. In America, money is valued and pursued. No longer is shame attached to greed.

GREED GOT US HERE! We don't want to pay much and we don't get much.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

That is why "small business" is so important.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

You know what they oughta do? 

All these bums that are milking unemployment should have to report every day to a stadium or something. Let em sit for 8.

Then, when a local small business owner needs help, say to dig a ditch, he goes over there and grabs someone for the day, or week, or whatever, free of charge. 

These bums ( friends and family of mine included) are getting raises on unemployment, and have no reason to try to find a job. Us small business owners are paying out the arse for it.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Though I understand your point, bringing the jobs back to America won't completely fix it.
> 
> Personally, I believe the mindset of the manufacturers has changed. When manufacturers were young, one/two generations old, the original owner's vision, blood, sweat, and tears permeated business operations. The manufacturer was in business to serve the needs of the end user. If they did it well, they grew and expanded their lines.
> 
> ...


And the real kicker is they did it with the capitol from your mutual fund investments....

You know those managed investments that you really don't have any say in how they are invested...

You liked those big returns through the merger mania years though didn't you?


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

In addition to the foreign made product problems, I've noticed a increase in foreign made business owner problems, that arent on the level....Asians (forgive me all you nice Asians)...Lebanese....yes, I profile customers just like foreign tools...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Though I understand your point, bringing the jobs back to America won't completely fix it.
> 
> Personally, I believe the mindset of the manufacturers has changed. When manufacturers were young, one/two generations old, the original owner's vision, blood, sweat, and tears permeated business operations. The manufacturer was in business to serve the needs of the end user. If they did it well, they grew and expanded their lines.
> 
> ...


:yes: :yes:


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