# Oregon interpretation of code -- TEMPERING VALVE



## ChrisCarsten (Sep 24, 2010)

I've run into an inspector who will NOT allow a thermostatic tempering valve to be installed near a water heater for the purpose of limiting temperature below 120 F. to the lavs in the building. He seems to think this is the same thing as using the water heater thermostat to limit the temperature. No other fixture in the building requires temperature in excess of 120 F.

I have seen tempering valves installed at water heater for banks of lavs, and on large water heaters in facilities for the same purpose. He is reading the code to say each lav must have it's own mini (junk) tempering valve.

First I've encountered this interpretation.

Any comments?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Ask for his plumbing license..


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

He's reading it wrong. Is he a general purpose inspector?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Tell him to shut up and kick rocks !!


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Print this and show it to him.
http://www.scaldprevention.org/ASSE%201017.htm

or this
http://intranet.iapmo.org/standards/docs/iapmo_std_841.pdf


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I would print it and keep it on file... I wouldn't show it to him if he doesn't have a plumbing license.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

ChrisCarsten said:


> ...He is reading the code to say each lav must have it's own mini (junk) tempering valve....


What code, chapter, and verse did he read it in?


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## ChrisCarsten (Sep 24, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> What code, chapter, and verse did he read it in?



I'm pretty sure he's reading 413.1 2011 Oregon Plumbing Specialty Code.

I believe that was his original comment on the correction.

Quoted from 413.1.

_Hot water delivered from public use lavatories shall be limited to a maximum temperature of 120 F by a device that conformes to ASSE 1070 or CSA B125.3. The water heater thermostat shall not be considered a control for meeting this provision._


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

ChrisCarsten said:


> I'm pretty sure he's reading 413.1 2011 Oregon Plumbing Specialty Code. I believe that was his original comment on the correction. Quoted from 413.1. Hot water delivered from public use lavatories shall be limited to a maximum temperature of 120 F by a device that conformes to ASSE 1070 or CSA B125.3. The water heater thermostat shall not be considered a control for meeting this provision.


one the thermostat only controls tank temp two it does not say you can't have the tempering valve at the tank. You simply need protection in the service line. If this hack can't see he is a idiot.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

We have general purpose inspectors who look at all trades when the specialized inspectors are too busy. 

I imposed this question but no answer was given.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> We have general purpose inspectors who look at all trades when the specialized inspectors are too busy. I imposed this question but no answer was given.


i enjoy them. The look on there face when you just taught them something and they can't argue because they know you are right!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> i enjoy them. The look on there face when you just taught them something and they can't argue because they know you are right!


Aren't they suppose to know more than us??


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Aren't they suppose to know more than us??


Im sure this was meant as a joke....
Or not. How could a general inspector possibly know all the codes in every book. That is not realistic. It takes years to be able to know and understand just one of them.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Aren't they suppose to know more than us??


they should if they are going to approve our work. I do love taking a cocky one down a step or two just enough to humble him a little.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Indic the troubles I have seen with whole building tempering valves that are installed around here is they only meet the max flow for all the fixtures. The installer failed to realize tempering valves have a minimum and maximum flow rate, and need to install a high / low flow device.

Also a single device means when it fails the whole building will only get cold water.(tempering valves per code need to meet the standard of when it fails it fails to cold) 

So lots of inspectors want a proper tempering valve installed for each fixture to meetthe flow requirements as well if a single device fails the rest of the building will be fine.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

One more thing, here in Illinois all the counties, townships and cities must meet the Illinois Plumbing code, or they can exceed it. So if the inspector of a certain jurisdiction wants to exceed the code, he is not wrong, no matter how much you want to disagree.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

SewerRatz said:


> One more thing, here in Illinois all the counties, townships and cities must meet the Illinois Plumbing code, or they can exceed it. So if the inspector of a certain jurisdiction wants to exceed the code, he is not wrong, no matter how much you want to disagree.


 
That is true, however as a "licensed plumber" we have the right to go above his head for a second opinion as to the how the code is read and interpreted.

If the inspector is familiar with your work and you know each other, the decision can me made at the sight. If you have any doubts, and you are not familiar with a certain inspector and you feel he is reading it wrong, get the head guy and make sure it's right in writing before to carry on.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

MTDUNN said:


> That is true, however as a "licensed plumber" we have the right to go above his head for a second opinion as to the how the code is read and interpreted.
> 
> If the inspector is familiar with your work and you know each other, the decision can me made at the sight. If you have any doubts, and you are not familiar with a certain inspector and you feel he is reading it wrong, get the head guy and make sure it's right in writing before to carry on.


If the counties, townships, or cities make their code stricter with amendments to the plumbing code, we as licensed plumbers must follow that stricter code.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

SewerRatz said:


> If the counties, townships, or cities make their code stricter with amendments to the plumbing code, we as licensed plumbers must follow that stricter code.


following stricter code is not the issue as much as inspectors not knowing the code. I have no issue with strict code but when the code they follow says one thing and they say it says another I have a issue with there interpretation. The main problem is education of code. I had a instance in one city that was following ibc code on ADA that was not correct. The city said ibc was what they follow on all handicap bathrooms. I had to remind them ADA LAW sets the code and if in conflict would win. Now if the ibc was to go above and beyond ADA law and somebody slipped and sewed because it wasn't to ADA standards they would win. So the inspector wanting something that is not in the code can be challenged. If they want something greater than code it would have to be adopted threw channels and included in the city,county or state code to be followed.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

A properly sized ASSE 1017 with a properly installed recirc system would meet the intent of 413.1. though not the wording. I asked this question the other day at a seminar full of plumbing inspectors and their answers were tentative and mixed. Sewer Rat makes a good point about failure of a 1017 leaving the whole system without hot water. The up side of that is if there is a malfunction, because it disrupts the whole system, it will most likely be addressed asap where a failure of a 1070 most probably would not be. 
Coincidently, I was talking to a rep about a nifty little 1017 he was displaying at a table top. The unit in question has 3/8" compression connections all around, making for quick installation. He warned me that due to it's small size it is also prone to clogging and failure.


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