# Uponor Pex fittings not taking solder...



## Dat dude (Oct 30, 2018)

We’ve always had an issue with the uponor fittings failing to solder completely.. We wirebrush, clean, flux, etc and it always seems like the solder doesn’t take properly. Anyone experience this same issue or have tips?

Thanks, DD


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Yep, toughest joint to solder. Whatever metal those things are made of solder has a hard time sticking to it. Sometimes I’ll flux the joint and let it sit for a little bit before I solder whether that does anything or not I don’t know. I was talking to another plumber at the supply house and he said he cleans, fluxes, then cleans and fluxes again. 

I only buy the female fittings because the males are even harder to get the solder in the joint.


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

My boss always had leaks on those things. We used them on Wal-lets and shower valves.
I don't recall myself ever having an issue though. 

Maybe because it's more like brass and you are usually used to soldering a piece of brass and copper together, not two pieces of brass?


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I dont use uponor pex fittings and never had any issue with any other brass pex fitting not holding solder...if you have such a problem why are you still using them?


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Seriously, if it's that bad either get a rep to refund you and figure it out or just buy male adapters and female copper adapters and screw them together. Yeah it costs a bit more but it's cheap insurance(and sanity) to know that you have a good joint in that wall.
We use viega pex fittings and never have an issue. I will say that lead free brass is tougher to solder to.







.


----------



## ken53 (Mar 1, 2011)

We had the same problem in the nineties the rep said it was the flux we use. He was right we switched and they were fine. I can't think of they type of flux we changed to though. I know it cost more.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ken53 said:


> We had the same problem in the nineties the rep said it was the flux we use. He was right we switched and they were fine. I can't think of they type of flux we changed to though. I know it cost more.





I agree. I guarantee if they switch to something with zinc chloride in it anything will solder to that fitting. Just clean it with a damp rag after.






.


----------



## Dat dude (Oct 30, 2018)

Thanks for the feedback! I’m going to look at what flux we are using and switch it up to see what works best. I will report back.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Dat dude said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I’m going to look at what flux we are using and switch it up to see what works best. I will report back.





You should also look into different solders, specifically ones containing silver. We use a silver bearing solder and don't have the issues you describe. It honestly sounds to me like you are heating up the flux too much and burning it at which point the solder won't stick. This happens alot when using a 95% tin/5% antimony mix which has a very high melting point. Silver lowers the melting point of the alloy. Silver also really likes to stick to other metals, that's why it is used to solder stainless steel.



The easiest mistake to make is to try and heat up the pipe by only heating the fitting and having the heat transfer through the fitting AND THE LAYER OF FLUX. Flux can not transfer the heat fast enough. You should heat the nipple a little first, keeping the flame about 1/4-1/2" away from the joint until the surface you are heating changes color/oxidizes. At that point the solder should stick to the nipple where it enters the joint. Test this by touching the solder to the joint every 10 seconds or so. When it sticks you can begin heating the fitting. When you heat the fitting, hold the torch tip near the nipple and aim it at the fitting allowing some of the side of the flame to lick the nipple keeping it hot while you heat the fitting. Also make sure to heat from several sides of the nipple/fitting. If you don't you will heat one area too much burning the flux in that area. For really large fittings like valves I heat the fitting a bit first and then heat the nipple and then go back to the fitting.





I don't want you to feel like I am talking down to you by explaining how to solder. I mostly just wanted to use the phrase "lick the nipple".


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Dat dude said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I’m going to look at what flux we are using and switch it up to see what works best. I will report back.


Here’s the manufacturer video, he recommends tinning flux. I’ll have to try that and see if it works any better.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> You should also look into different solders, specifically ones containing silver. We use a silver bearing solder and don't have the issues you describe. It honestly sounds to me like you are heating up the flux too much and burning it at which point the solder won't stick. This happens alot when using a 95% tin/5% antimony mix which has a very high melting point. Silver lowers the melting point of the alloy. Silver also really likes to stick to other metals, that's why it is used to solder stainless steel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sucking the nipple is much better than licking it....:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Dat dude said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I’m going to look at what flux we are using and switch it up to see what works best. I will report back.


Need to use the tinning flux on lead free fittings,nibco man gave a demo on this few yrs ago,also the lead free solder


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

First time I've seen or heard about tinning flux, it's a *HOT* option.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> First time I've seen or heard about tinning flux, it's a *HOT* option.


 I use the oatley brand, a few bucks more but almost always a good solder joint, when the solder in the flux melts you know its the right temp to feed in the role solder so no mistakes for wrong temp, it seems to let the role solder flow into the joint better, and if you miss with the role solder the tinning solder completes the joint..


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I use the oatley brand, a few bucks more but almost always a good solder joint, when the solder in the flux melts you know its the right temp to feed in the role solder so no mistakes for wrong temp, it seems to let the role solder flow into the joint better, and if you miss with the role solder the tinning solder completes the joint..





I ordered some of the tinning flux today. If I actually get it I will let you guys know what I think.


Btw, we use silvabrite 100 solder .4% silver, 4% copper, 95.6% tin





.


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I use the oatley brand, a few bucks more but almost always a good solder joint, when the solder in the flux melts you know its the right temp to feed in the role solder so no mistakes for wrong temp, it seems to let the role solder flow into the joint better, and if you miss with the role solder the tinning solder completes the joint..


I bought some today. I’ll give it a shot.


----------



## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

At one point we were doing a large riser job 20 story building and all our fittings leaked.. we used 50/50 to get the job done until we replaced where we adapted to... those were a bad batch of fittings though.. every plumber in city had problems


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Venomthirst said:


> At one point we were doing a large riser job 20 story building and all our fittings leaked.. we used 50/50 to get the job done until we replaced where we adapted to... those were a bad batch of fittings though.. every plumber in city had problems



on domestic water you used 50/50? how long ago?


----------



## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> on domestic water you used 50/50? how long ago?


 Hopefully beyond the statue of limitations.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> on domestic water you used 50/50? how long ago?





This is why most of us don't even keep it on the van. Can't be tempted to use it if you don't even have it.


We have had some heating guys say fock it and braze a joint that just wouldn't take because of a valve that wouldn't shut off or something lolz


Seriously though, while I don't think the use of 50/50 is really that bad depending on the water conditions, from a liability standpoint you just can't use it ever. That's another reason most of us don't stock it. Can't say I used something I don't even have. 



He probably would have been better off brazing all those joints. Acetylene and silfos is cheaper than paying to have a 20 story building repiped because you used lead solder on some stuff. Not to mention all the fines and lawsuits from people who drank from those pipes. 







.


----------



## ECH (Jul 27, 2018)

I have been thinking about trying this tinning flux, is the fact that it isn't water soluble an issue?


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

I just soldered two of those fittings into a WMOB today and it took just fine.

Using Laco water soluble flux and Sterling solder.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> This is why most of us don't even keep it on the van. Can't be tempted to use it if you don't even have it.
> 
> 
> We have had some heating guys say fock it and braze a joint that just wouldn't take because of a valve that wouldn't shut off or something lolz
> ...


in true reality it probably doesnt make much difference, the inside of the pipes build up a coating and the amount that may leech into the water is probably way below the allowed threshold..BUT...thats alot of probables and I wouldnt want to be that guy if they test the solder in the joint and face the backlash....when they first changed the law I had one inspector picking up the drops of solder that fall from the copper pipe from the floor if he saw any and I asked what he was doing and he replied I hope for your sake these dont contain any lead... now whether he really tested them or if it was a scare tactic who knows, but I showed him the rolls of lead free I use and never had any issue with it..


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

ECH said:


> I have been thinking about trying this tinning flux, is the fact that it isn't water soluble an issue?


if its a job they arent going to test water samples for any impurities it is fine..if you doing like a hospital where I believe they take samples and test for anything then no, but it would be in the spec sheet if you need to flush the lines for testing, so anywhere you have that you should use what they spec or want or get yourself introuble..but all I use for years now is the tinning flux , and after running the line for a few minutes the water comes out clean and no odor and tastes fine..


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Well, even though the supply house stocks hercules products which is an oatey brand and I know they have other oatey stuff on the shelf, they sent me nokorode 95/5 tinning flux. Which, instead of containing silver contains antimony. It does have a brush in the cap which is nice but I think I will just return it and re order the oatey 95 specifying in bold letters NO SUBSTITUTIONS


In their defense, I didn't put my cell number on the order form so they couldn't call me easily.




.


----------



## Dat dude (Oct 30, 2018)

So we bought some silver solder and tinning flux, next job will use them and confirm any changes. Based on all the responses here and from other forums, seems like this problem is well known and the solutions are similar across the board. Thanks to all for chiming in here. I can’t wait to “lick that nipple” lol!


----------



## Dat dude (Oct 30, 2018)

wanted to follow up here, thanks for all the input! Had a job yesterday where we had to adapt copper to uponor and used the tinning flux with the silver solder and it worked like a charm! Going on here and getting advice from yall got me some extra respect from da boss!


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I would also like to thank those who suggested the tinning flux. I ended up keeping the rectorseal nokorode tinning flux even though it didn't have any silver in it because that is not a battle I wanted to fight. Also it has a built in brush in the cap which is major for me.



It worked great, it didn't have as much powdered solder as I thought it would. I figure I can heat some up and pour off some flux. It really worked well. You guys have changed how I solder. I think we all know that we are all pretty much stuck in our ways and getting us to change is very difficult.




.


----------



## ECH (Jul 27, 2018)

I got some the other day at furguson. Love it. It is now my go to flux. It was hard as a rock after being in the truck all day, but a quick flutter over the tub with the torch softened up enough to load up the brush.

Amazing stuff. I am going to play around with it this weekend, they claim you don't need to clean, (of course I always will) so I'll sweat a couple practice fittings with no cleaning, and then take it apart and see how well it took.

If it takes completely around without cleaning, I have complete confidence it would always take with cleaning. 

My sphincter always puckers a little when I'm going outside to turn on the meter again after sweating in a ball valve on the main that's in a vanity or something. This may be from my inexperience, but if a product is %100, that's a win in my book.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> I would also like to thank those who suggested the tinning flux. I ended up keeping the rectorseal nokorode tinning flux even though it didn't have any silver in it because that is not a battle I wanted to fight. Also it has a built in brush in the cap which is major for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



did you try mixing it up, sometimes the solder sits at the bottom


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

*G*



ShtRnsdownhill said:


> did you try mixing it up, sometimes the solder sits at the bottom


Agreee,it says to mix it up before use,it says that on all flux cans,but really I don’t give a flux either way,so flux you lololololo (jk)


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> did you try mixing it up, sometimes the solder sits at the bottom



I will try to mix it when I use it next but the tip of the brush was in the bottom of the can so I assume it was packed with the most potent stuff. They had to have put the top on when the stuff was fluid because it had hardened around the brush. I could see the flecks of powder and it looked well mixed.



Again, this was not oatey 95, it was rectorseal nokorode tinning flux.






.


----------

