# Newly completed master bath addition



## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Just put the finishing touches on this today. Overall pretty happy with it...


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

On behalf of all drain guys: thank you for the clean out under the urinal

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Nice clean work. Do you include a portfolio on your website?

On a side note, I would pan the WH


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Thanks. I agree about the pan, wish I would have pushed it more during top out. I don't have a formal portfolio, just some pics.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

No offense I88 but...

Code requirements shouldn't be a debatable topic.

BTW: Nice looking work!


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Unclog1776 said:


> On behalf of all drain guys: thank you for the clean out under the urinal Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Wrong! That clean out should be above the urinal or to the side. That location means a backup splashes out all over the floor when you unscrew the clean out plug.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

422 plumber said:


> Wrong! That clean out should be above the urinal or to the side. That location means a backup splashes out all over the floor when you unscrew the clean out plug.


So in you're opinion a clean out should be placed above a sink drain too? Because in essence it's the same thing. Btw try putting a clean out above a urinal on a custom home you're customer would be very happy... Makes sense just impractical IMO.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> No offense I88 but...
> 
> Code requirements shouldn't be a debatable topic.
> 
> BTW: Nice looking work!


Thanks for the compliment. No offense taken. We passed all inspections without any violations. The pan is not a requirement here, just a good idea.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

422 plumber said:


> Wrong! That clean out should be above the urinal or to the side. That location means a backup splashes out all over the floor when you unscrew the clean out plug.


Not sure what code requires in Northern California. But I see this all the time here. However we do have a choice to put above or below. I would always choose above it just makes sense in so many ways. 

And to the OP, going above and beyond the code for something as simple as a water heater pan always makes you look better as a professional


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> Not sure what code requires in Northern California. But I see this all the time here. However we do have a choice to put above or below. I would always choose above it just makes sense in so many ways.
> 
> And to the OP, going above and beyond the code for something as simple as a water heater pan always makes you look better as a professional


Maybe there is nowhere to run the drain. That would have made the pan kinda useless I suppose.

Here they still require them but we have to cap the outlet.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

422 plumber said:


> Wrong! That clean out should be above the urinal or to the side. That location means a backup splashes out all over the floor when you unscrew the clean out plug.


I agree but anything is better than pulling the urinal and hoping you got it only to reset and have it still clogged.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Nice looking work.

W/h seems a little small for a jetted soaker and custom shower. hard to tell from the pic.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Unclog1776 said:


> I agree but anything is better than pulling the urinal and hoping you got it only to reset and have it still clogged.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


The true point of the matter is that all well rounded plumbers know that you only put the clean out on top when it's handy cap height and the clean out can not fit beneath the urinal. Any variant of this is matter of opinion. Personally I don't snake out drains so it doesn't affect me in any way. Thanks for the comments!!!


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Nice looking work.
> 
> W/h seems a little small for a jetted soaker and custom shower. hard to tell from the pic.


It's 40 gal should be ok on account that it only feeds that one bathroom. I guess we'll see.


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## battleplumbing (Oct 10, 2013)

very very nice brother. that"s a man toilet. You play draw straw to see how has to get the yellow cake from the pub for your pissa


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## Copper face (May 8, 2013)

Looks good man ! Nice pics


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

battleplumbing said:


> very very nice brother. that"s a man toilet. You play draw straw to see how has to get the yellow cake from the pub for your pissa


Thanx! Lol. Much love from nor cal.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Copper face said:


> Looks good man ! Nice pics


Thanx! Much appreciated.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Innovator88 said:


> Personally I don't snake out drains so it doesn't affect me in any way. Thanks for the comments!!!


Pahahahahaha Karma is going to get you lol :laughing:
Nice looking bathroom, tho.


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## Kelly Plumbing (Oct 12, 2012)

Great pics!! The finished product looks like it was done professionally. I like the cleanout under the urinal. Did you charge the customer extra for this amenity or was it included in the original estimate? Thanks for sharing!!


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

I have a product idea. Naked lady cleanout covers. It's a good reason to put urinal cleanouts on top. And for the kids, spongebob characters


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Kelly Plumbing said:


> Great pics!! The finished product looks like it was done professionally. I like the cleanout under the urinal. Did you charge the customer extra for this amenity or was it included in the original estimate? Thanks for sharing!!


Thanks. It was included in the per fixture price.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Cajunhiker said:


> Pahahahahaha Karma is going to get you lol :laughing:
> Nice looking bathroom, tho.


Lol! I camera them out though, so hopefully the plumbing gods have mercy on me.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Unclog1776 said:


> I agree but anything is better than pulling the urinal and hoping you got it only to reset and have it still clogged.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


That's why I invented this.

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/urinal-water-blaster-23935/

for some reason that link is broken
go to the search function and type in urinal water blaster, you will see my invention, for just what you described.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Innovator88 said:


> Just put the finishing touches on this today. Overall pretty happy with it...


 Would have enjoyed seeing pics of the rough, too. Not too sure about that drip leg though. :no: If I were an inspector, I'd probably knock you on that one.

It's suppose to discharge through an air gap located in the same room, whether it's in a pan or not. Any discharge should not go unnoticed because it's an indication something is wrong in the system.

An inspector can always fail you, even if they cannot find a violation going off the code book. :yes:

I am not trying to be Negative Nancy, but if this was my job, we would have *found* a way to run the discharge piping, much differently. :yes:

Finish work does not impress me much, but for the most part it's nice work


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Innovator88 said:


> Thanks for the compliment. No offense taken. We passed all inspections without any violations. The pan is not a requirement here, just a good idea.


 That is no excuse. You should have ran your discharge better than this! Even if it meant spending extra time and money to get it right.
This would never fly on one of my jobs.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> That's why I invented this.
> 
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/urinal-water-blaster-23935/
> 
> ...


Very cool idea 422. Here is a link to the thread...

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/urinal-water-blaster-23935/

I fixed the link in your post as well.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Triplecrown24 said:


> Would have enjoyed seeing pics of the rough, too. Not too sure about that drip leg though. :no: If I were an inspector, I'd probably knock you on that one.
> 
> It's suppose to discharge through an air gap located in the same room, whether it's in a pan or not. Any discharge should not go unnoticed because it's an indication something is wrong in the system.
> 
> ...


I think you are referring to the TMP on the water heater??? Never heard it referred to as a drip leg... Drip legs are for gas/propane HWH's. If it is the TMP you are referring to then; it is ran to the exterior of the home, stubs out 6" above the plate and has 1/4" per foot of grade. Using an air gap on this would be comical IMO of coarse.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Innovator88 said:


> I think you are referring to the TMP on the water heater??? Never heard it referred to as a drip leg... Drip legs are for gas/propane HWH's. If it is the TMP you are referring to then; it is ran to the exterior of the home, stubs out 6" above the plate and has 1/4" per foot of grade. Using an air gap on this would be comical IMO of coarse.


T&P valve


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> T&P valve


Temp/psi


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Innovator88 said:


> I think you are referring to the TMP on the water heater??? Never heard it referred to as a drip leg... Drip legs are for gas/propane HWH's. If it is the TMP you are referring to then; it is ran to the exterior of the home, stubs out 6" above the plate and has 1/4" per foot of grade. Using an air gap on this would be comical IMO of coarse.


The discharge pipe coming off the *T* & *P*, regardless if it's electric, gas or LP. can _also_ be called a 'drip leg'. Perhaps it's not in your area.

The drip leg you're talking about is the black pipe and cap, extending downwards off the tee on gas piping going into the gas control box.
By the way: Professional Plumbers do not call Water Heaters, "HWH's" as in "Hot Water Heaters". 

Also, I will tell you what's comical - Is How you ran that discharge! Legal or not --You could have ran it better that that!

How are you suppose to know if there is a problem with the WH or the T&P or both?


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Triplecrown24 said:


> The discharge pipe coming off the T & P, regardless if it's electric, gas or LP. can also be called a 'drip leg'. Perhaps it's not in your area.
> 
> The drip leg you're talking about is the black pipe and cap, extending downwards off the tee on gas piping going into the gas control box.
> By the way: Professional Plumbers do not call Water Heaters, "HWH's" as in "Hot Water Heaters".
> ...


The purpose of this thread, and my joining this forum is and was not to debate personal preferences. I run my business on fact only. We passed inspection, job is done. I invite constructive criticism but please we could go around and around about opinion. I realize some of these things are code in you're area, and I will take them to hart. I am a professional plumber and I called it a hwh at the end of the day its opinion and doesn't matter. You're points are valid to you and I respect that. Happy plumbing! And thanks for the comments!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Innovator88 said:


> The purpose of this thread, and my joining this forum is and was not to debate personal preferences. I run my business on fact only. We passed inspection, job is done. I invite constructive criticism but please we could go around and around about opinion. I realize some of these things are code in you're area, and I will take them to hart. I am a professional plumber and I called it a hwh at the end of the day its opinion and doesn't matter. You're points are valid to you and I respect that. Happy plumbing! And thanks for the comments!


 Just don't ever call a boiler a furance!


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Just don't ever call a boiler a furance!


That's a promise!


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Just don't ever call a boiler a furance!


 people really need to learn the difference between a boiler and furnace. I get calls about giving an estimate on a boiler replacement and when I get there it's a hot air furnace. Drives me nuts.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Unclog1776 said:


> On behalf of all drain guys: thank you for the clean out under the urinal
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 The CO is appreciated but it is nicer if it is put above the floor rim level of the urinal so you can cleanout the buildup right behind the urinal spud without pulling the urinal.:yes:


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Innovator88 said:


> The purpose of this thread, and my joining this forum is and was not to debate personal preferences. I run my business on fact only. We passed inspection, job is done. I invite constructive criticism but please we could go around and around about opinion. I realize some of these things are code in you're area, and I will take them to hart. I am a professional plumber and I called it a hwh at the end of the day its opinion and doesn't matter. You're points are valid to you and I respect that. Happy plumbing! And thanks for the comments!


OPINION!!?? Try this: Fact-Your discharge sucks! Just because it passed does not mean anything! Fact- It's 'water Heater' not 'Hot Water Heater'. 

Professional plumber or not, you're going to hear opinions, criticisms, compliments and 'atta boys'! In the real world, someone is going to come along and say something that may not tickle your fancy. Hearing a plumber/owner refer to a water heater as a 'hot water heater' is unacceptable! I thought you ran your business by fact only? Well, here is a FACT for you : There is no such thing as a Hot Water Heater!!!

CHALLENGE: Show me and the rest of us PZ'ers, where you see the words "Hot Water Heater" in any code book, or on any packaging, papers, or anything to do with Bradford White or AO Smith!! The code book, whether it's IPC, UPC or even BOCA does not recognize the term 'Hot Water Heater'! Neither do the manufacturers of any professional grade water heater!! and neither should YOU!! 

If you truly believe using the term "Hot Water Heater" is professional, then you're a _*DISGRACE*_ to the trade!

You posted pictures of a finish job. Everything looked great except the discharge off the WH. 

Whether it's code or not in your area; I truly believe it could have and should have been ran much different.

The way you ran it- would fail here! Also, How is someone suppose to know if there is a problem??????

A dripping T & P indicates a problem!! 

Either post pictures of work, that has been done correctly or be prepared to hear about it!

One thing I HAVE learned about PZ, is if you cannot take the heat ---Get out of the kitchen!!

With that said, if you do not want to hear everyone's .02, then you came to the WRONG place.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

He ran the T&P valve some where I would think a pan drain could of done the same. The T&P should of had a air break in the HWT area so it would have been noticeable if it was triggered.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Triplecrown24 said:


> OPINION!!?? Try this: Fact-Your discharge sucks! Just because it passed does not mean anything! Fact- It's 'water Heater' not 'Hot Water Heater'.
> 
> Professional plumber or not, you're going to hear opinions, criticisms, compliments and 'atta boys'! In the real world, someone is going to come along and say something that may not tickle your fancy. Hearing a plumber/owner refer to a water heater as a 'hot water heater' is unacceptable! I thought you ran your business by fact only? Well, here is a FACT for you : There is no such thing as a Hot Water Heater!!!
> 
> ...


No... The fact is that you use this site to vent you're frustrations, and bully. Let's be constructive and encouraging. You are now being petty and, making personal assaults. Judging by this response and a few other posts I'v read of yours you need therapy. Btw HWH is the abbreviation I have always used for inventory of my water heaters. This makes it distinctly different from other plumbing materials so I don't mix them up. See... There is a reason for everything. I'm new to this forum and writing things out... Hence the TMP mistake. I don't wish to quarry with you, as you seem to have good plumbing knowledge and are seasoned on posting to this forum. However give me the same respect.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

What is accepted in one area may not in another. In Bryan/College Station, Texas running the T&P, Pan Drain, and condensate drain to the outdoors is the norm. Doesn't help if the t&p drains in the same room as the water heater if it's up in a attic where the home owner only goes up into to get the Christmas tree down. Here in OKC they want it to the floor drain in the same room or to the outdoors if no floor drain is available. Really chaps my @$$ when someone in one area of the country bashes someone in another area when they have no idea what is accepted in that area.

That being said, I think the OP should have put a pan under that water heater lol!


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Innovator88 said:


> No... The fact is that you use this site to vent you're frustrations, and bully. Let's be constructive and encouraging. You are now being petty and, making personal assaults. Judging by this response and a few other posts I'v read of yours you need therapy. Btw HWH is the abbreviation I have always used for inventory of my water heaters. This makes it distinctly different from other plumbing materials so I don't mix them up. See... There is a reason for everything. I'm new to this forum and writing things out... Hence the TMP mistake. I don't wish to quarry with you, as you seem to have good plumbing knowledge and are seasoned on posting to this forum. However give me the same respect.


 Therapy? I don't think so. I call it the way it is. I never claimed to be the 'orthodox' type. If you feel I am a bully and am petty, that's your opinion. As far as having good plumbing knowledge, I appreciate the acknowledgement. I am an excellent plumber, if I say so myself.

My stance is the same with you. You posted work, and receiving feedback from other members- positive or negative, is to be expected. You also used terminology that a professional plumber, and especially an owner would find unacceptable.

Petty? No! Anything in plumbing that is not correct is far from petty. If you were an Apprentice, I would maybe overlook it.


Next time, post pictures of a job where things are done 100% correct!

We all have opinions, and I have seen some great plumbers on here, get shredded, by other members.

I now know what type of work ethic you have, and a good idea what kind of pride you take in your work.


All I told you is your discharge could have been ran different and calling a WH a 'HWH' is not professional. When you tried to 'correct' me, I came after you.

We can go back and forth all day and night if you wish.....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Triplecrown24 said:


> Therapy? I don't think so. I call it the way it is. I never claimed to be the 'orthodox' type. If you feel I am a bully and am petty, that's your opinion. As far as having good plumbing knowledge, I appreciate the acknowledgement. I am an excellent plumber, if I say so myself.
> 
> My stance is the same with you. You posted work, and receiving feedback from other members- positive or negative, is to be expected. You also used terminology that a professional plumber, and especially an owner would find unacceptable.
> 
> ...


Geez TC, lighten up.

It was a very clean install that is electrically sound, not endangering the public, not endangering the potable water supply, and met the requirements of his AHJ.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Geez TC, lighten up.
> 
> It was a very clean install that is electrically sound, not endangering the public, not endangering the potable water supply, and met the requirements of his AHJ.


 
Excellent response


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Triplecrown24 said:


> Therapy? I don't think so. I call it the way it is. I never claimed to be the 'orthodox' type. If you feel I am a bully and am petty, that's your opinion. As far as having good plumbing knowledge, I appreciate the acknowledgement. I am an excellent plumber, if I say so myself.
> 
> My stance is the same with you. You posted work, and receiving feedback from other members- positive or negative, is to be expected. You also used terminology that a professional plumber, and especially an owner would find unacceptable.
> 
> ...


http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/offical-post-your-work-before-you-hate-thread-26170/


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Geez TC, lighten up.
> 
> It was a very clean install that is electrically sound, not endangering the public, not endangering the potable water supply, and met the requirements of his AHJ.


 I am not going to ease up, Biz. I disagree with the install. The discharge IS a hazard and is a violation how it is ran! Also, plumbers do not call water heaters "Hot water heaters". I stand by what I said! He could of ran the discharge indirect, into a pan, and THEN outdoors. My question has yet to be answered, and I find it pathetic that he cannot explain--How are you suppose to know if there is a problem, if the discharge can be unnoticed, the way he ran it??


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Triplecrown24 said:


> How about..No! I disagree with the install....
> 
> ...He could of ran the discharge indirect, into a pan, and THEN outdoors.
> 
> ...


You may be right in your locale, but that doesn't necessarily make you right anywhere else. 

Regarding your question...Just because it is exterior, does not mean it is inconspicuous. Sidewalks, patios, soffits over doorways, driveways, etc...


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Here. U must run the pan and t&p to a floor drain or outside and terminate 6" above slab. The pan must be 1" PVC or copper. The t&p 3/4 copper or cpvc. U can not put the t&p in to the pan! If u can't run a t&p u can put in swag valve Witch has a sensor in pan and if it gets wet it will shut off the water supply !!!
Just how it is here


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Here. U must run the pan and t&p to a floor drain or outside and terminate 6" above slab. The pan must be 1" PVC or copper. The t&p 3/4 copper or cpvc. U can not put the t&p in to the pan! If u can't run a t&p u can put in swag valve Witch has a sensor in pan and if it gets wet it will shut off the water supply !!!
> Just how it is here


correct, running into a pan here in most city's would be considered hack work because we all know that a 1" pvc drain line can't handle a T&P going off full blast. All we are required to do is run the T&P like TX stated , if the T&P goes off the homeowner will figure something is wrong when they don't have much hot water in their "Hot Water Heater":yes:


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

It looked good to me. He installed it the way he is supposed to in his area. Maybe its a rare time he has to do it this way and it works for the scenario. Ive done things that were code before but not my preferred way of doing it. I wish more people would post their work on this site. Including me. Its always nice to see other pros doing good work.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Triplecrown24 said:


> I am not going to ease up, Biz. I disagree with the install. The discharge IS a hazard and is a violation how it is ran! Also, plumbers do not call water heaters "Hot water heaters". I stand by what I said! He could of ran the discharge indirect, into a pan, and THEN outdoors. My question has yet to be answered, and I find it pathetic that he cannot explain--How are you suppose to know if there is a problem, if the discharge can be unnoticed, the way he ran it??


You come across just like what you have in your avatar....A tool.

That's a fact.

You should learn from this thread, and I'm not talking about plumbing.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Maybe there is nowhere to run the drain. That would have made the pan kinda useless I suppose. Here they still require them but we have to cap the outlet.


The pan outlet? You can't run it out?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> The pan outlet? You can't run it out?


Based on the photos...who knows. Based on the look of the install, I am quite willing to give I88 the benefit of the doubt.

I see no evidence in the replay to justify changing the ruling on the field.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Triplecrown24 said:


> The discharge pipe coming off the T & P, regardless if it's electric, gas or LP. can also be called a 'drip leg'....


Not by real plumbers. No professional plumber would ever mix gas pipe terminology with emergency pressure relief drainage. That's just silly.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Triplecrown24 said:


> Therapy? I don't think so. I call it the way it is. I never claimed to be the 'orthodox' type. If you feel I am a bully and am petty, that's your opinion. As far as having good plumbing knowledge, I appreciate the acknowledgement. I am an excellent plumber, if I say so myself.
> 
> My stance is the same with you. You posted work, and receiving feedback from other members- positive or negative, is to be expected. You also used terminology that a professional plumber, and especially an owner would find unacceptable.
> 
> ...


 






You're too judgmental. You *do not* now know what kind of work ethic this gentleman has. 

Please tone down the cyber-slamming. Constuctive criticism is one thing, but being overly critical, almost to the point of being nasty is not in good taste.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Based on the photos...who knows. Based on the look of the install, I am quite willing to give I88 the benefit of the doubt. I see no evidence in the replay to justify changing the ruling on the field.


I must have misunderstood, I thought you were talking about your code in OK


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> I must have misunderstood, I thought you were talking about your code in OK


Here we would have been required to put in a pan, run it to the exterior with 1" PVC and terminate the at the pan or at the PVC by means of an airgap.

We are also required to install a pan and cap the drain even if there is no exterior access. In the OP's photo, it is possible a pan drain was not feasible and the T&P could have still made it to a conspicuous exterior location.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Got it now thanks


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Here we would have been required to put in a pan, run it to the exterior with 1" PVC and terminate the at the pan or at the PVC by means of an airgap. We are also required to install a pan and cap the drain even if there is no exterior access. In the OP's photo, it is possible a pan drain was not feasible and the T&P could have still made it to a conspicuous exterior location.



Just a friendly reminder, almost all jurisdictions here want CPVC on the pan drain now


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Will said:


> Just a friendly reminder, almost all jurisdictions here want CPVC on the pan drain now


Makes sense with very hot water


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> Makes sense with very hot water


I've always thought it was pointless as 9 times out of 10 the pan drain is less than 12" in length and drains into a PVC floor drain....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

its a tough crowd to please here on this site anymore.

lot of "tools to please"


if you dont want it picked apart by folks from other parts of the country quoteing their codes...

. then dont post... ..


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Innovator88 said:


> Thanx! Lol. Much love from nor cal.


By the above I assume you mean northern California. If so, your code is the CPC, California's version of the UPC. 
About water heater pan requirements, see section 508.4.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Innovator88 said:


> Thanx! Lol. Much love from nor cal.


By the above I assume you mean northern California. If so, your code is the CPC, California's version of the UPC.
About water heater pan requirements, see 508.4 CPC 2010


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Plumbus said:


> By the above I assume you mean northern California. If so, your code is the CPC, California's version of the UPC.
> About water heater pan requirements, see section 508.4.


Yes sir. Thanks for posting. A quick review shows that running the t&p to the exterior is correct, and it is explicitly illegal to run it into a pan. Also, as I stated previously the pan IS NOT a requirement. Although I like to use pans especial in this application and I also stated this early on in the thread. Thanks, you guys are awesome!


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

In this county the pan is only enforced when in an attic.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

If I may, 508.4 states that "if a water heater is located in ... (a) floor-subfloor assembly where damage results from a leaking water heater, a watertight pan of corrosion resistant materials shall be installed..."

Your picture shows a floor of unknown construction. My question is, if there is a leak, will there be damage. If so, a pan is required.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Plumbus said:


> If I may, 508.4 states that "if a water heater is located in ... (a) floor-subfloor assembly where damage results from a leaking water heater, a watertight pan of corrosion resistant materials shall be installed..."
> 
> Your picture shows a floor of unknown construction. My question is, if there is a leak, will there be damage. If so, a pan is required.


Yes, it would cause damage. I agree about the need for a pan. This inspector passed us without it, because as you know things change from city/county.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Touche. I was as bit harsh, but I stick with everything I said. Just not how I said it.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Not by real plumbers. No professional plumber would ever mix gas pipe terminology with emergency pressure relief drainage. That's just silly.


 Sure bout that, Biz? There are many terms that plumbing and gas piping- share. Back years ago, when I was UA190, is where we learned to call the discharge-- a drip leg, if that is what you're referring to. It is even what our plumbing and mechanical inspectors call them, too.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Triplecrown24 said:


> Sure bout that, Biz? There are many terms that plumbing and gas piping- share. Back years ago, when I was UA190, is where we learned to call the discharge-- a drip leg, if that is what you're referring to. It is even what our plumbing and mechanical inspectors call them, too.


Drip leg is also used in steam piping system...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

TC, 

Hearing a plumber/owner refer to a "temperature/pressure relief drain discharge piping" on a water heater as a "drip leg"is unacceptable! I thought you ran your business by fact only? Well, here is a FACT for you : There is no such thing as a drip leg on residential water heater temperature/pressure relief piping.!!!

CHALLENGE: Show me and the rest of us PZ'ers, where you see the words "Drip Leg" in any code book, or on any packaging, papers, or anything to do with Bradford White or AO Smith related to the relief discharge piping!! The code book, whether it's IPC, UPC or even BOCA does not recognize the term "Drip Leg" for relief piping! Neither do the manufacturers of any professional grade water heater!! and neither should YOU!!

If you truly believe using the term "Dip Leg" in this context is professional, then you're a _*DISGRACE*_ to the trade! 

** tongue firmly planted in cheek **


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

In Illinois, the T&P relief drain is required to discharge indirect into a floor drain or hub drain. Never to the exterior.

The drain should also be within the same area, or if shelf mounted directly below.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Triplecrown24 said:


> OPINION!!?? Try this: Fact-Your discharge sucks! Just because it passed does not mean anything! Fact- It's 'water Heater' not 'Hot Water Heater'.
> 
> Professional plumber or not, you're going to hear opinions, criticisms, compliments and 'atta boys'! In the real world, someone is going to come along and say something that may not tickle your fancy. Hearing a plumber/owner refer to a water heater as a 'hot water heater' is unacceptable! I thought you ran your business by fact only? Well, here is a FACT for you : There is no such thing as a Hot Water Heater!!!
> 
> ...


If you want to argue semantics, there is such thing as a hot water heater. Ever hear of a booster heater?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I think the drip leg comment is worse than the hotwater heater comment. Drop legs are for gas and steam. There is no reason for a drip leg on a t&p.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

RW Plumbing said:


> I think the drip leg comment is worse than the hotwater heater comment. Drop legs are for gas and steam. There is no reason for a drip leg on a t&p.


there is no such thing as a drip leg on a T&P valve also there is no such thing as a hot water heater if the water was already hot you wouldn't be heating it. I hate people using terms that aren't right. Newbees


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> there is no such thing as a drip leg on a T&P valve also there is no such thing as a hot water heater if the water was already hot you wouldn't be heating it. I hate people using terms that aren't right. Newbees


What about a booster heater. Those heat already hot water...


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

RW Plumbing said:


> What about a booster heater. Those heat already hot water...


that is a booster heater not a hot water heater. It takes hot water and boosts it to 180 it in no way is for the same purpose .


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Innovator88 said:


> Yes, it would cause damage. I agree about the need for a pan. This inspector passed us without it, because as you know things change from city/county.


You're right, there is variation in code interpretation. Ironically, code writers go to great strides to be unambiguous so that there won't be. Until I read your comments, I was convinced that 508.4 clearly stated the need of a pan. 
I stand corrected.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

An engineer wrote an article that got around stating that sprinkler heads should be called "sprinklers", and that calling them "sprinkler heads" is a hack term. It went nowhere.
You know what? The OP's work looks terrific.
The CO is under the fixture. Whoop-de-doo. It's a residential bathroom! Is that urinal really going to see so much urine that it will clog with crystals?
One thing that irks me is when guys write "That's just the way I do things". For lack of a better word, that is being the definition of a dewsh. 
Mangle the plumbing terms - I won't have a heart attack over it, and it doesn't make you less of a plumber in my eyes.
Just make sure the workmanship is good, and up to code.
Life is too short to worry about a drip leg, or if the word "hot" comes before a water heater.
BTW: Why do we have "Jumbo shrimp"? Isn't that an oxymoron, too?


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

newyorkcity said:


> An engineer wrote an article that got around stating that sprinkler heads should be called "sprinklers", and that calling them "sprinkler heads" is a hack term. It went nowhere.
> You know what? The OP's work looks terrific.
> The CO is under the fixture. Whoop-de-doo. It's a residential bathroom! Is that urinal really going to see so much urine that it will clog with crystals?
> One thing that irks me is when guys write "That's just the way I do things". For lack of a better word, that is being the definition of a dewsh.
> ...


Well said you handsome devil!


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> TC,
> 
> Hearing a plumber/owner refer to a "temperature/pressure relief drain discharge piping" on a water heater as a "drip leg"is unacceptable! I thought you ran your business by fact only? Well, here is a FACT for you : There is no such thing as a drip leg on residential water heater temperature/pressure relief piping.!!!
> 
> ...


 I left myself open to that one, I admit.

Alright, Alright. So I was a little harsh on the guy. I admit it. I will ease up, okay! 

A little harsh at times, but still great at what I do for a living.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

GAN said:


> In Illinois, the T&P relief drain is required to discharge indirect into a floor drain or hub drain. Never to the exterior.
> 
> The drain should also be within the same area, or if shelf mounted directly below.


 This is how it should be in all States. Too bad none of us will ever be on the same page. Would be nice though.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Triplecrown24 said:


> I left myself open to that one, I admit.
> 
> Alright, Alright. So I was a little harsh on the guy. I admit it. I will ease up, okay!
> 
> A little harsh at times, but still great at what I do for a living.


Bla bla bla. Ur good but ur not as great as I am. I'm the best plumber that has ever been or ever will be. With out a doubt I got skill nobody can touch 
Lol


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

*ok*



Triplecrown24 said:


> I left myself open to that one, I admit.
> 
> Alright, Alright. So I was a little harsh on the guy. I admit it. I will ease up, okay!
> 
> *A little harsh at times, but still great at what I do for a living*.


 
You are definitely knowledgeable, but why don't you prove your statement by posting some photos of your work? (I promise no silly nitpicking, and we will give credit for a job well done)


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

newyorkcity said:


> You are definitely knowledgeable, but why don't you prove your statement by posting some photos of your work? (I promise no silly nitpicking, and we will give credit for a job well done)


 Prove? LOL, No Prob. We do a ton of service work, and in my opinion, there is not much excitement to those type of pics. If you still want to see some, I'm sure I can work that out. However we have 2 nice remods and an addition coming up. I have plenty of pics stored, too. I will see what I can dig up. I will let ya know when I got some cool stuff for you to check out.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Triplecrown24 said:


> Prove? LOL, No Prob. We do a ton of service work, and in my opinion, there is not much excitement to those type of pics. If you still want to see some, I'm sure I can work that out. However we have 2 nice remods and an addition coming up. I have plenty of pics stored, too. I will see what I can dig up. I will let ya know when I got some cool stuff for you to check out.


Save it tired if the bashing. Don't think I'm alone either


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> Save it tired if the bashing. Don't think I'm alone either


 I agree.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Bla bla bla. Ur good but ur not as great as I am. I'm the best plumber that has ever been or ever will be. With out a doubt I got skill nobody can touch
> Lol


 Even *I*, will go along with that one, TX!!


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

When I first posted this thread I quickly realized why most people don't post pics of their work. When I was attacked, and was told (being a brand new member) that if I can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, I believed it! And I was disappointed that a site with so much potential to do positive things in the industry was so negative and mean spirited....HOWEVER! I am proud to say that this was quickly disproved when good men stood up for what was right. This made me a proud member of PZ! Let's all learn from this thread, encouraging members to post pics, and offering constructive criticism so we may ALL perfect ourselves and our trade! Because, if we aren't striving for perfection, then what are we striving for?!?! I look foreword to the future of this great forum, and thank all of the members for their comments kind and not so kind. PZ rocks!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Innovator88 said:


> When I first posted this thread I quickly realized why most people don't post pics of their work. When I was attacked, and was told (being a brand new member) that if I can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, I believed it! And I was disappointed that a site with so much potential to do positive things in the industry was so negative and mean spirited....HOWEVER! I am proud to say that this was quickly disproved when good men stood up for what was right. This made me a proud member of PZ! Let's all learn from this thread, encouraging members to post pics, and offering constructive criticism so we may ALL perfect ourselves and our trade! Because, if we aren't striving for perfection, then what are we striving for?!?! I look foreword to the future of this great forum, and thank all of the members for their comments kind and not so kind. PZ rocks!


Stick around 88.... we have another 'new' member here with his hackery work and needs to be bashed for unsafe heating work.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Stick around 88.... we have another 'new' member here with his hackery work and needs to be bashed for unsafe heating work.


Why bashed? I just don't see how that benefits anyone involved.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Stick around 88.... we have another 'new' member here with his hackery work and needs to be bashed for unsafe heating work.


Who ? Where ??
Lol


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Innovator88 said:


> When I first posted this thread I quickly realized why most people don't post pics of their work. When I was attacked, and was told (being a brand new member) that if I can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, I believed it! And I was disappointed that a site with so much potential to do positive things in the industry was so negative and mean spirited....HOWEVER! I am proud to say that this was quickly disproved when good men stood up for what was right. This made me a proud member of PZ! Let's all learn from this thread, encouraging members to post pics, and offering constructive criticism so we may ALL perfect ourselves and our trade! Because, if we aren't striving for perfection, then what are we striving for?!?! I look foreword to the future of this great forum, and thank all of the members for their comments kind and not so kind. PZ rocks!


don't take the attention the wrong way. If you get a bunch of plumbers to say anything you have got to be doing something right. Every one of us is a expert in our field on one subject or another. Just take what fits and remember the rest it may be useful someday. I don't think I have read one person saying anything about the quality of your work just differences in local preference or code enforcement. I myself just pointed out you might work on terminology it is important if you want people to listen. Good job and the clean out placement does not matter it sucks no matter where it is.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Some old. Some newwer. Try and tear them apart. I don't give a chit. If I can learn a better way I will jump at the chance. Lets hear it !!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Same ol, same ol foking die electric unions crap..lol


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Innovator88 said:


> When I first posted this thread I quickly realized why most people don't post pics of their work. When I was attacked, and was told (being a brand new member) that if I can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, I believed it! And I was disappointed that a site with so much potential to do positive things in the industry was so negative and mean spirited....HOWEVER! I am proud to say that this was quickly disproved when good men stood up for what was right. This made me a proud member of PZ! Let's all learn from this thread, encouraging members to post pics, and offering constructive criticism so we may ALL perfect ourselves and our trade! Because, if we aren't striving for perfection, then what are we striving for?!?! I look foreword to the future of this great forum, and thank all of the members for their comments kind and not so kind. PZ rocks!


 I88-- I apologize for being harsh and unpleasant. I love plumbing very much and sometimes I just think my way is the only way. Even with the experience I have, I could have replied to you 101 different ways than the way I did.

You're a fellow plumber and both of us do the same thing every day for a living. I have always been a no nonsense type at work but for the most part am very respectful and polite in the field. I am told that I am well liked and highly respected by my peers. I would like to be known that way on here.

You did nothing that warranted the response I gave you. Please accept my apology.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Some old. Some newwer. Try and tear them apart. I don't give a chit. If I can learn a better way I will jump at the chance. Lets hear it !!


 Now you're just showing off! LOL! BEAUTIFUL work, TX!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Some old. Some newwer. Try and tear them apart. I don't give a chit. If I can learn a better way I will jump at the chance. Lets hear it !!


Gas pex to connect the heaters,
Upside down ball valves,
Your wall hung WC's don't look level against the wall,
No insulator for copper through the top plate,
No primer on the PVC,

Geez Tex...you call yourself a plumber? :laughing: :jester:

Honestly, I defy anyone to find more pretty work than performed by the guy Tex follows around every day. :laughing:


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Triplecrown24 said:


> I88-- I apologize for being harsh and unpleasant. I love plumbing very much and sometimes I just think my way is the only way. Even with the experience I have, I could have replied to you 101 different ways than the way I did.
> 
> You're a fellow plumber and both of us do the same thing every day for a living. I have always been a no nonsense type at work but for the most part am very respectful and polite in the field. I am told that I am well liked and highly respected by my peers. I would like to be known that way on here.
> 
> You did nothing that warranted the response I gave you. Please accept my apology.


Atty boy TC


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> Gas pex to connect the heaters,
> Upside down ball valves,
> Your wall hung WC's don't look level against the wall,
> No insulator for copper through the top plate,
> ...


AMEN!

Lol


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Unfortunately that is what happens sometimes when someone hiding behind a computer screen finally gets the courage to speak up and bash someone because they are stressed and having a bad day.


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## Innovator88 (Sep 29, 2013)

Triplecrown24 said:


> I88-- I apologize for being harsh and unpleasant. I love plumbing very much and sometimes I just think my way is the only way. Even with the experience I have, I could have replied to you 101 different ways than the way I did.
> 
> You're a fellow plumber and both of us do the same thing every day for a living. I have always been a no nonsense type at work but for the most part am very respectful and polite in the field. I am told that I am well liked and highly respected by my peers. I would like to be known that way on here.
> 
> You did nothing that warranted the response I gave you. Please accept my apology.


I accept you're apology. Thank you, and I apologize if you felt that I did any wrong towards you.


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