# Most Completive/Cheapest Under Sink Thermostatic Mixing Valve?



## abr (Jun 21, 2009)

I have a new vet hospital that I am plumbing and the engineer now wants thermostatic mixing valves on all the sinks and lavs. I am looking for one that has 3/8" compression connections. I found a Watts but they are almost $100. Does anybody have any better alternatives?

Thanks,
Adam


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

abr said:


> I have a new vet hospital that I am plumbing and the engineer now wants thermostatic mixing valves on all the sinks and lavs. I am looking for one that has 3/8" compression connections. I found a Watts but they are almost $100. Does anybody have any better alternatives?
> 
> Thanks,
> Adam


Get him to spec it out...


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

those 3/8 ones do not work they are cheap pcs of junk!! look at zurn they make a pretty good under sink mod


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)




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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

GREENPLUM said:


>


those don't work worth a Sh$t , might as well put a 3/8 comp tee in there.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

justme said:


> those don't work worth a Sh$t , might as well put a 3/8 comp tee in there.


Got a point there. In my neck of the woods, they have to be ASSE 1070 stamped. Can't use the previous mentioned/pictured above. I think it has to do with being equipped with integral check valves. Lack of such could cause for odd results for a hot water system with a circulating return line (I'm just guessing).

Back when I was an estimator, Ferguson was pricing these out for around 70.00 a piece (depending on quantity). 

http://www.leonardvalve.com/productdetails.asp?i=4352&fa=&productname=MODEL-3/8

I'm guessing it was missed in the specs? If not then you should be screaming for a change order!


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## AndrewCopper (Feb 8, 2013)

i think this will work


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

How about an intro Andrew? Before the sharks arrive:thumbsup:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Adamche said:


> How about an intro Andrew? Before the sharks arrive:thumbsup:


He all yours, ADamche! Chew him up for intro!


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

You guys are slippin'......

He posted one a long time ago lol.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

abr said:


> I have a new vet hospital that I am plumbing and the engineer now wants thermostatic mixing valves on all the sinks and lavs. I am looking for one that has 3/8" compression connections. I found a Watts but they are almost $100. Does anybody have any better alternatives?
> 
> Thanks,
> Adam


Why does the cost of his mistake matter to you?


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Smells like money to me. Time to write up a request for change order and wait for a response.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Why does the cost of his mistake matter to you?


It would be a no-brainer up here in Washington.

All of the jurisdictions I work in want tempering valves on hand sinks and lavatories in commercial and public buildings, with temperatures not to exceed 120F. I just factor in the cost when I'm budgeting for a job.

I use the Symmons Maxline series because it also meets the integral checks requirements they started pushing on us about 4 or 5 years ago.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> It would be a no-brainer up here in Washington.
> 
> All of the jurisdictions I work in want tempering valves on hand sinks and lavatories in commercial and public buildings, with temperatures not to exceed 120F. I just factor in the cost when I'm budgeting for a job.
> 
> I use the Symmons Maxline series because it also meets the integral checks requirements they started pushing on us about 4 or 5 years ago.


Seems pretty cool.

Does it maintain the set temp regardless of pressure fluctuations (like a pressure balanced shower valve)?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Seems pretty cool.
> 
> Does it maintain the set temp regardless of pressure fluctuations (like a pressure balanced shower valve)?


I don't think so. The mechanism doesn't seem all that complicated.

I did a vet clinic a few years ago where the engineer spec'd out inline Grohe pressure balancing valves to be used in conjunction with point of use tempering valves in all five exam rooms and both surgery rooms.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Those built in checks for whatever reason never seem to last long . I have my guys install spring checks on the hot and cold ,saves a headache later on


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

justme said:


> Those built in checks for whatever reason never seem to last long . I have my guys install spring checks on the hot and cold ,saves a headache later on


We're doing a bar/restaurant at the moment and seriously considering manifolding all of the hand sinks and lavatories off of a centrally located tempering valve. The cost of doing it that way is about $1600.00 cheaper than buying individual point of use tempering valves. The Planning Dept. and Chief Plumbing Inspector have already signed off on the concept, but the Health Department is scared of new ideas and is waffling.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

We are allowed to do that here , we feed all the lav's in the restrooms with 1 mixing valve same for the handsinks in the prep areas.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> We're doing a bar/restaurant at the moment and seriously considering manifolding all of the hand sinks and lavatories off of a centrally located tempering valve. The cost of doing it that way is about $1600.00 cheaper than buying individual point of use tempering valves. The Planning Dept. and Chief Plumbing Inspector have already signed off on the concept, but the Health Department is scared of new ideas and is waffling.


That's how the Steak & Ale's and Bennigan's chain in OKC was set up in the late 80's and early 90's. They used Sparco.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

justme said:


> We are allowed to do that here , we feed all the lav's in the restrooms with 1 mixing valve same for the handsinks in the prep areas.


I'm pretty sure I'll go ahead and just do it that way anyway. I only ran it by the Health Department as a courtesy.

The restaurant/bar is pretty good sized -- 4 bathrooms with two lav's per, 4 hand sinks in the bar, 3 in the kichen, 3 in the prep area and 2 in the scullery.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> That's how the Steak & Ale's and Bennigan's chain in OKC was set up in the late 80's and early 90's. They used Sparco.


There was some concern about heat loss over the long distances that might add up to differing temps at locations furthest from the source. I'm going to insulate the lines and bundle in a 1/2" return line -- I'll only install the circ pump if temperature fluctuation does become an issue.


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> We're doing a bar/restaurant at the moment and seriously considering manifolding all of the hand sinks and lavatories off of a centrally located tempering valve. The cost of doing it that way is about $1600.00 cheaper than buying individual point of use tempering valves. The Planning Dept. and Chief Plumbing Inspector have already signed off on the concept, but the Health Department is scared of new ideas and is waffling.


We do it that way here, with no problems


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> There was some concern about heat loss over the long distances that might add up to differing temps at locations furthest from the source. I'm going to insulate the lines and bundle in a 1/2" return line -- I'll only install the circ pump if temperature fluctuation does become an issue.


Put the pump in anyways with an aqua stat. This way the pump will only run as needed.


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

not a good idea to run all sinks on one temp valve because when it devlopes problems it will cause problems at all sinks and the health dept will make you close the doors untill it is fixed if that is on weekend or late night lost business is very expensive .


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I just did a job using the Apollo mini mixing valves with Zurn sensor faucets. The valves were about $62 each, I believe.


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## AndrewCopper (Feb 8, 2013)

Adamche said:


> How about an intro Andrew? Before the sharks arrive:thumbsup:


Hi Adamche : sorry for not making an intro  by the way I'm Andrew 

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/andrew-saying-hello-world-23972/#post377383


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## AndrewCopper (Feb 8, 2013)

Adamche thanks for the reminder dude  already done . I am afraid to sharks so I already done the intro LOL ;D

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/andrew-saying-hello-world-23972/#post377383


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

plumberpro said:


> not a good idea to run all sinks on one temp valve because when it devlopes problems it will cause problems at all sinks and the health dept will make you close the doors untill it is fixed if that is on weekend or late night lost business is very expensive .



Service them and you will be fine. If they cannot take care of one they will not take care of all the others. I don't see it as my problem if they go down. They will get a deadline for repairs anyhow.


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## Rcplumber (Feb 27, 2011)

Point of use tempering valves like the 3/8 ones suck we install one at the heater and run it to lavs and sinks


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Point of use tempering valves fail pretty frequently, in my experiance. They aren't rebuild-able, and it takes almost as long to swap one out as it does to swap out a master mixer.


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## 100 Watt (Aug 11, 2011)

Round here we have to use 1070 rated mixers at each lav for public use. Typically @$70 each. PITA to make them look good with trap wraps. The "H" shaped ones are much easier to install.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

Widdershins said:


> We're doing a bar/restaurant at the moment and seriously considering manifolding all of the hand sinks and lavatories off of a centrally located tempering valve. The cost of doing it that way is about $1600.00 cheaper than buying individual point of use tempering valves. The Planning Dept. and Chief Plumbing Inspector have already signed off on the concept, but the Health Department is scared of new ideas and is waffling.



If your area has a ASSE 1070 requirement then you would not be meeting that requirement. A 1070 is a point of use tempering and the manufactures have a set limit as to how many sinks you can install on the single valve and still meet the ASSE 1070 standard.

Make real sure you have an engineer sign off on what your doing or you may be finding your self in a court for a scalding case.


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## abr (Jun 21, 2009)

*Thanks for the advice*

Much appreciated:thumbup:


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