# Cellcore PVC on a sump pump?



## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

My bro-in-law is pretty handy, and re-piped his own sump, looked pretty good, then I noticed cellcore PVC, I am a cast and copper guy so my knowledge on the stuff is limited. Is it something I should bring up now? My dad is having major surgery soon so for the next couple weeks I'll be splitting time between work and the hospital , or can it handle 9 foot of head pressure for a while?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

It will be fine

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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

There is always a place for cell-core....in the landfill.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> There is always a place for cell-core....in the landfill.


I agree, I know it's crap, my question was, can I wait to tear it out and re-pipe it or is it something I should bring up now, or will it last a while and don't worry about it.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

you are not supposed to use cell core on pressurized waste but it works fine. its not under constant pressure. whats wrong with using cell core on dwv?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Flyout95 said:


> I agree, I know it's crap, my question was, can I wait to tear it out and re-pipe it or is it something I should bring up now, or will it last a while and don't worry about it.


Oh, it will probably last for a while. But as was said, it is not supposed to be under any kind of pressure except gravity drainage. I personally would take it out.

It needs more support because it is more flimsy than sch40. Also the inner surface has been known to fracture if it gets thrown on the ground in cold weather.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

It should be fine.

David


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

plbgbiz said:


> Oh, it will probably last for a while. But as was said, it is not supposed to be under any kind of pressure except gravity drainage. I personally would take it out.
> 
> It needs more support because it is more flimsy than sch40. Also the inner surface has been known to fracture if it gets thrown on the ground in cold weather.



according to code it still only needs to be supported every 4', same as solid core. never saw cell core sag at 4'. never had the fracture that you speak of and live in cold weather. i only heard of a problem once(twice with your gripes). a co worker couldnt get a 4" cell core building drain to hold an air test. its not made for pressure. he did a water test and it was fine.


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## Gruvplumbing (Dec 26, 2013)

We'll make that 3 gripes. Cellcore is junk. I've never used it and never will.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

Gruvplumbing said:


> We'll make that 3 gripes. Cellcore is junk. I've never used it and never will.


i am not trying to start something, just trying to learn something. why is it junk. i did heating in high school and used it for venting furnaces.(bosses choice) my first five years as a plumber, i used solid core.(bosses choice). the next 9 years, i used cell core(bosses choice). and the last couple of years, i use it. (my choice). this is a great forum to learn something if there are reasons other than it is junk. i personally have no reasons not to use it unless you guys prove otherwise.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Cell core pipe is more crush resistant than sch. 40,I use it on drains and sewers all the time.as long as code approved and it being cheaper I use it all the time,oh and it don't hurt that it is so much easier to cut.:laughing:


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## MattZone (Mar 28, 2014)

Cellcore is garbage, with that being said to answer Flyout's question as to will it last?

As long as both proper glue and primer were used then it could last 20+ years with no issues. So long as the cuts were all square, everything was properly primed, glued, and pressed home and did not pull out at all it will be fine.

My concern is someone with not much plumbing experience might have a glue joint "hanging on by a thread" that could have pulled out from home. Not too much make-up with DWV fittings (if that is what he used).


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumbdrum said:


> It will be fine


Maybe... :laughing:

Cellcore as stated is not rated for pressure...
You have 9' of head on it...

Sure it will probably be just fine...
Maybe...

Do you feel lucky?:laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> Cell core pipe is more crush resistant than sch. 40,I use it on drains and sewers all the time.as long as code approved and it being cheaper I use it all the time,oh and it don't hurt that it is so much easier to cut.:laughing:


cell core has been used for about 20+ years here in Indy for million dollar homes....no problems...never an issue

the only place it is not allowed is in the under slabs but I think it probably would work ok there too...and I would be willing to bet that there is probably a lot of it under slabs out there by mistake..

*I dont understand where the problem lies,* there has to be a pressure rateing on cell core somewhere and I would bet it is rated for well over 100 psi. It will work fine on a sump pump line, dont lose any sleep over it

I am with sparkey, it cuts a lot easier than sch40:thumbup:


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

it is legal under slabs and for sewers in wisconsin. it is schedule 40 as a thickness. cell core or not. just a correction but i agree, never a problem and i use it with confidence and warranty it.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i am not trying to start something, just trying to learn something. why is it junk. i did heating in high school and used it for venting furnaces.(bosses choice) my first five years as a plumber, i used solid core.(bosses choice). the next 9 years, i used cell core(bosses choice). and the last couple of years, i use it. (my choice). this is a great forum to learn something if there are reasons other than it is junk. i personally have no reasons not to use it unless you guys prove otherwise.


Cell core doesn't have the same temperature rating as solid core. NEVER use cell core for exhaust piping. I've replace cell core that was used on the exhaust more than a few times. After a while it starts to turn a pinkish orange color and gets extremely brittle. 
I have no problem with cell core when used for drainage or intake air but exhaust is another story.
I know more than one inspector that will fail you if you use cell core on the discharge of a pump. Never seen it break when on a pump but because it says "not for pressure" they don't want it on the discharge side until it starts draining by gravity.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I've dug up cracked and deformed fc. The circumstances did not seem to warrant the deformity. I would rate it somewhere between sch40 and S&D. As far as cutting easier goes, geez, wasn't sch40 easy enough? 

Sometimes I wonder if they sell men's clothes where today's Plumbers buy their underwear. :laughing:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plbgbiz said:


> I've dug up cracked and deformed fc. The circumstances did not seem to warrant the deformity. I would rate it somewhere between sch40 and S&D. As far as cutting easier goes, geez, wasn't sch40 easy enough?
> 
> Sometimes I wonder if they sell men's clothes where today's Plumbers buy their underwear. :laughing:


Oh bite a biggin biz lololo,just because you might cut 2 pvc pipes a week and those don't have to be straight for your fernco coupling that you be installing,don't hate on the ones that cut a lot of pvc pipe in a week,pvc sch.40 is 10 times harder to cut than foam core,and you would agree with me if not on this forum:yes:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Even I have my limits. Foam core and CSST are on the no-go list for me.

If it's too tough to cut for you, then maybe you should get a recip saw, or just get a job as a sparky with the rest of the ladies. :laughing:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Flyout, take care of your dad, cellcore on sump pump discharge at low head would not put that much pressure on the pipe..


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

I use foam core for my forced mains and natural gas pipes! much cheaper than copper too!


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I've piped many sumps with foam core. The pressure is minimal. I wouldn't go making a potato gun with cell core but I'll use it on plumbing.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

younger-plumber said:


> I use foam core for my forced mains and natural gas pipes! much cheaper than copper too!


Hell yea,that what I'm talkin bout


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## wallingford (Nov 16, 2013)

Cell core is used in most of the new residential construction around here and while i agree it' s cheap material we don't have failures. Just make sure to support it properly and that may mean closer than 4 feet apart.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

When referring to not using cell core for pressure, it's for process piping, pools , spa's. You test it with a 10' head for plumbing inspections. It will work, not the preferred pipe, but I would not loose an ounce of sleep on this one, nor a plumbing system with it either.

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## MNplumb1 (Feb 17, 2014)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i am not trying to start something, just trying to learn something. why is it junk. i did heating in high school and used it for venting furnaces.(bosses choice) my first five years as a plumber, i used solid core.(bosses choice). the next 9 years, i used cell core(bosses choice). and the last couple of years, i use it. (my choice). this is a great forum to learn something if there are reasons other than it is junk. i personally have no reasons not to use it unless you guys prove otherwise.


In MN it doesn't meet code to vent furnace, boiler or water heater with foam core.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

MNplumb1 said:


> In MN it doesn't meet code to vent furnace, boiler or water heater with foam core.


Most manufactures state do not use cell core, I've only seen 1 manufacture say it was allowed, can't remember who but it was a HWH

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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

I've accidentally bought it and didn't realize until I was running the sewer line. Couldn't figure out why I was having such a difficult time getting the pipe uniformly pitched. In retrospect, I felt like I wasted more in labor trying to make the install right than I could ever save in materials. Don't like the stuff.


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## Stptog (Jul 13, 2014)

MNplumb1 said:


> In MN it doesn't meet code to vent furnace, boiler or water heater with foam core.


I don't think the code is the issue with cell core pipe on exhaust vents. For the reasons BCT stated, brittle and color changing, please don't use EVER for exhaust as for cell core pipe on drainage, ABS pipe is cell core and has been used since god knows when here in Mass. And we have strict code. Reality is good practice says follow manufactures instructions on pumps.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

Stptog said:


> I don't think the code is the issue with cell core pipe on exhaust vents. For the reasons BCT stated, brittle and color changing, please don't use EVER for exhaust as for cell core pipe on drainage, ABS pipe is cell core and has been used since god knows when here in Mass. And we have strict code. Reality is good practice says follow manufactures instructions on pumps.


You can get ABS or cell core ABS, they are different


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

tim666 said:


> You can get ABS or cell core ABS, they are different


Wow! You can take the cheap shiot and make it even cheaper? :whistling2::laughing:

Damn!


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm sure that "Flyout", with all his cast iron and copper work would say the same thing about your precious PVC. No issues with ABS here.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

We use foam core on dwv only. my boss over digs the trenches or has me do it. To deal with flex of the pipe, I just use a 5' piece. I start at the high point of the system and I back fill sand mounds at 3' intervals. once my pipe is at the correct fall between the first two mounds, I pull the pipe down the line keeping it on the last previous mound and mound up at the end to get the correct fall between these mounds. once my 3' interval mounds are done I lay in the trunk line and ancillary lines. Properly bed the rest with sand so there's no movement, nice even fall. works great for me. I don't like the fact that most places are wanting a 10' head pressure. I say its ok for temporary fix while going to shop to get solid core, as long as the pipe doesn't get struck or have any type of stress crack. I never really have an option in the materials I use, so I just make sure I do the best job I can and use the product the way the manufacturer intended and will warranty.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

younger-plumber said:


> I use foam core for my forced mains and natural gas pipes! much cheaper than copper too!





dclarke said:


> I've piped many sumps with foam core. The pressure is minimal. I wouldn't go making a potato gun with cell core but I'll use it on plumbing.


I can tell you what 15 psi will do to 6"... :laughing:
Our competitor thought it would be fine... :blink: :yes:

We thank him for the new customer...:thumbup:


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd bet a sump pump wouldn't hit 15psi. If it did it wouldn't be for long before the pump failed from a blocked line. Just a guess. I should test it with a capped line and pressure gauge.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

dclarke said:


> I'd bet a sump pump wouldn't hit 15psi. If it did it wouldn't be for long before the pump failed from a blocked line. Just a guess. I should test it with a capped line and pressure gauge.


The Zoeller 50 Series sump pump will shut off at about 1/2 the head needed to reach 15...

There are some sewage pumps..... :laughing:

The point is the cheap shiot is not rated for pressure at all...
So go ahead and hang your azz out by using it in a pressure application...

Once you cross the line over 0 psi you are in a pressure application....


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> The Zoeller 50 Series sump pump will shut off at about 1/2 the head needed to reach 15...
> 
> There are some sewage pumps..... :laughing:
> 
> ...


 
i was installing a 4" main sewer line the other day,it ran into a septic tank and we were tying it into city sewer,we checked both manholes on each side of where the tap was supposed to be,both had 10" line around 6ft deep,no problem,as my operator was diggin to find tap i told him nothing to worry about,it was 6ft deep,WELLLLLLLLL,at 2ft deep,stuck bucket into gravel and suddenly this geyser of sewage shot up and filled our hole full of pressurized sewage,turns out they ran a 4"force main right in same ditch above the gravity fed sewer and noone knew it was there,now they know,point is it was coming off a city pump station further down the line and it be willing to bet it was around the 10-12-15psi area.in other words i used sch.40 to make the repair:laughing::yes:


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh CRAPX you ever see the thin elastomeric couplings that come with the check valves. 
That can handle the little bit of pressure.

let me guess you guys only use schedual 80 glue in checks valves on sump lines?

I tell you what, I have a sump pump in my basement that I wanted to install a year ago. Now for sure when I install it, it will be in foam core only. I might even try to find some that's been sitting in the sun for a while. and I will sleep fine at night.


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## Drainprodm (Apr 2, 2013)

Redwood said:


> I can tell you what 15 psi will do to 6"... :laughing:
> Our competitor thought it would be fine... :blink: :yes:
> 
> We thank him for the new customer...:thumbup:


I have never been in a basment 30 feet deep!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Drainprodm said:


> I have never been in a basment 30 feet deep!


Have you ever been in one that might be pumping 30' uphill to reach a storm or, sanitary sewer?

I'm sure some of the members here that work in the larger cities with tall buildings see them on a regular basis, but you prolly won't find PVC in there...:laughing:


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## sfink (Aug 6, 2014)

hi! just would like to add my 2 cents. Foamcore pvc is unrated, not usable for any pressure application. You have inherited this situation, replace it asap. But your family situation takes priority over a non-emergency plumbing situation! Do what you have to do, free up some time, gather your materials and tools, do this when you can. There are a lot of "rabbit trail" opinions here, and that's fine; just get at soon. I used foamcore a few times and my problem with it is it's difficult to find a straight piece that isn't bowed! This is annoying because people are paying me and bowed piping looks bad.! I don't use it. Standard piping practices apply here, I can't deal with substandard materials. Take care, sfink


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

sfink said:


> hi! just would like to add my 2 cents. Foamcore pvc is unrated, not usable for any pressure application. You have inherited this situation, replace it asap. But your family situation takes priority over a non-emergency plumbing situation! Do what you have to do, free up some time, gather your materials and tools, do this when you can. There are a lot of "rabbit trail" opinions here, and that's fine; just get at soon. I used foamcore a few times and my problem with it is it's difficult to find a straight piece that isn't bowed! This is annoying because people are paying me and bowed piping looks bad.! I don't use it. Standard piping practices apply here, I can't deal with substandard materials. Take care, sfink


Hey SFink...
Why don't you post an introduction so we can roll out the welcome mat?
I like what you said but it means nothing until we've met with an intro...


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Redwood said:


> Hey SFink...
> Why don't you post an introduction so we can roll out the welcome mat?
> I like what you said but it means nothing until we've met with an intro...


That's the nicest request for Intro post I've ever read here. Most of them are a threat of some sort.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

dclarke said:


> That's the nicest request for Intro post I've ever read here. Most of them are a threat of some sort.


I'm trying to be kinder and more gentle....:laughing:


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## Liquidplumber11 (Aug 9, 2014)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i am not trying to start something, just trying to learn something. why is it junk. i did heating in high school and used it for venting furnaces.(bosses choice) my first five years as a plumber, i used solid core.(bosses choice). the next 9 years, i used cell core(bosses choice). and the last couple of years, i use it. (my choice). this is a great forum to learn something if there are reasons other than it is junk. i personally have no reasons not to use it unless you guys prove otherwise.


If you cell used cell core for flue piping you were way off, only solid core is allowed for this application. Cell core can break down on a molecular level and leak co2.


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## Liquidplumber11 (Aug 9, 2014)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i am not trying to start something, just trying to learn something. why is it junk. i did heating in high school and used it for venting furnaces.(bosses choice) my first five years as a plumber, i used solid core.(bosses choice). the next 9 years, i used cell core(bosses choice). and the last couple of years, i use it. (my choice). this is a great forum to learn something if there are reasons other than it is junk. i personally have no reasons not to use it unless you guys prove otherwise.


Foam core is not allowed on flue piping. Solid core only.


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