# Supply lines



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

What do you use for standard residential fixtures?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Indie said:


> What do you use for standard residential fixtures?


Putty, cordless and T&M.

HTH's.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Garden hose

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

It should be chromed copper, not chromed brass.

This poll is invalid.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Did you get a permission slip from Mr. D. to start a pole? :laughing:


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## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

Copper, chrome of brushed nickel depending on the application.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> It should be chromed copper, not chromed brass.
> 
> This poll is invalid.


Its good you pointed that out. Might have lead to a bit of confusion.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

copper (rough-brass) or chrome plated copper.

I like to hard-pipe fixtures.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Mostly chrome plated 'brass'. A few pex. Every once in a blue moon some braided stainless.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I've said it before, flex this and flex that is cheapening our trade. Hard-pipe it fellahs. And use sweat stops when ever possible.....:thumbsup:


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Bending chrome is quickly becoming a lost art.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Or I should say bending chrome and making it look good is becoming a lost art.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Chromed copper or just plain copper tubing, always!

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I dont see Floodsafe supply lines


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## localguy630 (Jan 26, 2012)

Rigid Supplies only, only use compression stops if its something fancy the customer bought. I agree with Tommy P. Flex hoses cheapen our trade.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I've said it before, flex this and flex that is cheapening our trade. Hard-pipe it fellahs. And use sweat stops when ever possible.....:thumbsup:



Now I feel like a dirty whore, thanks. :brows: Nice pic by the way. 

I don't feel that comp or threaded stop, S.S. lines is all that cheap. I suppose that sweating in stops, and chromed line would be an ounce of prevention.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Mississippiplum said:


> Chromed copper or just plain copper tubing, always!
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


 
Really? The vast majority of piping in your area is cpvc (for water quality issues) and you install ONLY copper supply lines? :whistling2:








Paul


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

rocksteady said:


> Really? The vast majority of piping in your area is cpvc (for water quality issues) and you install ONLY copper supply lines? :whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He is a young fella that is ensuring that he has work when he runs the show in a decade or so. :laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Indie said:


> Now I feel like a dirty whore, thanks. :brows: Nice pic by the way.
> 
> I don't feel that comp or threaded stop, S.S. lines is all that cheap. I suppose that sweating in stops, and chromed line would be an ounce of prevention.


 






No stainless steel flex suplies are not cheap, in fact I think the rigid copper supply lines are cheaper. What I mean is that if we as plumbers use the ss flex supply lines, then years from now when those need to be replaced, the homeowner won't have to pay a plumber to replace the stop and/or supply line; it'll be easy for the homeowner to do it himself or have a handyman do it. 

But if he (HO) sees a sweat stop with a rigid supply line, he might be less inclined to do it himself. I'm thinking about future work.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> No stainless steel flex suplies are not cheap, in fact I think the rigid copper supply lines are cheaper. What I mean is that if we as plumbers use the ss flex supply lines, then years from now when those need to be replaced, the homeowner won't have to pay a plumber to replace the stop and/or supply line; it'll be easy for the homeowner to do it himself or have a handyman do it.
> 
> But if he (HO) sees a sweat stop with a rigid supply line, he might be less inclined to do it himself. I'm thinking about future work.



No doubt it was clear what you were saying. In my experience I am not called for work by those who have even a slight interest in doing the work themselves, but I must agree that there is an increased possibility of turning away a would be DIY with a sweat stop and chrome supply. 

Funny its that same thinking that drives me to hard pipe water heaters and softeners in. 

Is it safe to assume that you are not a purveyor of pex water lines? Maybe we should start a new thread called "What I do to help the plumbing trade, or Protecting Plumbing."


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I have had DIY's try to remove a compression stop.. not a good idea. They don't know how to deal with the ferrule.

As for sweating on stops and hard pipe fixtures, I agree, everything in my area is sweat on stops and hard piped, sadly a home owner will not pay for the additional labor to drain down the house so I can sweat on a stop on a lower floor toilet, and they won't pay for me to sit there and bend a supply. Compression and stainless flex supply and I am on my way. I do like the other way, but budget and time won't allow for it.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I roll ss braided supply.
Don,t care for sweat stops i prefer threaded, but around here i keep 20 pex stops to every 2 threaded stops


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I don,t think it cheapens much of anything.

The same guy that burns a stop with a propane hardware torch is gonna ta a braided supply of.
Besides diy faucet is gonna proly have built in supplies. Any moroon can un hook a faucet ridgid supply or not.

In the end u or i don,t want them as a custo


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

beachplumber said:


> I don,t think it cheapens much of anything.
> 
> The same guy that burns a stop with a propane hardware torch is gonna ta a braided supply of.
> Besides diy faucet is gonna proly have built in supplies. Any moroon can un hook a faucet ridgid supply or not.
> ...


Good point.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Have to love when ho's or handymen try their hand at sweating. 
Can you say "$ kachingggggg $"


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

My company does not allow us to use anything other than SS. If I tried to "bend" anything I would get fired, it's the profit (time) factor. We only pay a few dollars each for the SS we buy by the palet.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

mpsllc said:


> Have to love when ho's or handymen try their hand at sweating.
> Can you say "$ kachingggggg $"


I laugh when I see burnt drywall and/or scorched studs from a DIY soldering attempt, or I see big globs of solder hanging from the joint :laughing:

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

RealCraftsMan said:


> My company does not allow us to use anything other than SS. If I tried to "bend" anything I would get fired, it's the profit (time) factor. We only pay a few dollars each for the SS we buy by the palet.


 I have no attachment to either braided or rigid. If it's concealed in a cabinet/vanity I'll use SS braided. If it's exposed I'll use rigid supplies.

PEX, Polybutylene or Polybraided are pretty much out of the question, though.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Indie said:


> What do you use for standard residential fixtures?


For lavs, Brasscraft copper lav risers (called "rough brass" in catalog). For toilets, Brasscraft chrome-plated copper toiler risers.

It's gotten so bad at my supplier that I have to special order copper tubes. I was the only guy buying them so they stopped bringing them in. I dislike the braided stainless things and flat refuse to use the plastic tubes. I've seen too many of the plastic tubes (installed by others) fail. I do use braided or plastic tubes (Delta kitchen) when the faucet comes with them, since I have no choice then.


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## Flyguy199 (Sep 20, 2011)

I've been using SS flex lines and compression lines for a few years now. I don't believe they cheapen our profession. I'm able to get in and out of the customer's home quickly and they're happy not paying for me to bend rigid lines and draining down pipe so I can solder.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I use the soda straws that you can steal from any fast food place. They are flexible and don't cost me a penny :thumbsup:

I've done this rant before but here goes again. How much freekin time does it take to cut and bend a chrome supply? Maybe 5 minutes tops yes? and yet there are plumbers? out there that even the 5 minutes is just too damn much time so they prefer to slap the flexi crap garbage line on instead because hell, one size fits all. I have seen plumbers hack a 24 inch flexi to a 8" connection and loop the fing thing like spaghetti. Come the F on guys, we are supposed to be professionals. Use the good stuff and F the crap. Let the home owners and handy hacks play with that stuff. 

You Can F it up....We can help :thumbsup:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

This is something I REALLY LIKE about this forum. Where I work, I see virtually no hard piped water heaters, copper supply lines and I've never seen a sweat on stop. It's just how everybody here does it. If I were to talk to another plumber here, I don't think they'd even get the point of having the conversation. So, this is what I'm going to do.


I'm going to start doing things the hard way. I'm going to order a bunch of copper supply lines and I need to know who makes the best dielectric unions for w/h installs. I'm not a high volume shop but If I can put 100 water heaters out there that are hard piped, it'll probably keep the homeowners of those 100 heaters from attempting a replacement when they fail. I am not joking or blowing smoke. We can't just talk about it, we have to DO something. You can't hide behind "I wish I could but nobody does it that way." If you want things to change, DO SOMETHING. We owe it to our trade to support it and ensure it has a place in the future.

Thanks ND for posting this.







Paul


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I admit the arguments being made are swaying me to up my game. 

Let me ask. 

What type of chromed supplies do you use? The ones with poly washers, or rubber. A picture would be nice. WB Has a couple options.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Indie said:


> I admit the arguments being made are swaying me to up my game.
> 
> Let me ask.
> 
> What type of chromed supplies do you use? The ones with poly washers, or rubber. A picture would be nice. WB Has a couple options.


 
I'm interested in this too. Do you guys buy the bulbed supplies or do you swage them yourselves? For w.c. supplies, flat or cone washers?




Paul


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

Brasscraft, no rubber, bulb end on the lav and plastic yellow gasket on the closet


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Maybe I'm from a lost generation but I enjoy using my skills. I get satisfaction from doing things. It's only the "hard" way if you look at it that way. To me, its the only way. It takes a fair amount of skill to properly measure, cut and fit pipe but pex and flex, slap it in and let it fall where it may. We have convinced ourselves and our customers that things we never would have tolerated 30 years ago are now ok. Look at it like this. would you slap flexi supply lines under the fixtures in a 2 million dollar home? If so, maybe a career re-think is in order but regardless, if not in a 2 million dollar home then why in a 250 thousand dollar home or any home for that matter? PS. chrome supplies are a whole lot less expensive than flexi's and......you can get them in plain copper too which is even less.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

gitnerdun said:


> Brasscraft, no rubber, bulb end on the lav and plastic yellow gasket on the closet


That's what we use

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> PS. chrome supplies are a whole lot less expensive than flexi's and......you can get them in plain copper too which is even less.


 
Where do you get your supplies? I just flipped through my Wolverine Brass catalog and the chrome supplies are about the same, if not a bit more, than what I pay for Brasscraft braided supplies at my supply house. 

I'm not going to do this to save a few bucks so 35 cents more for a supply isn't going to factor into my choice. Of course, I'd like to get the best price though. 





Paul


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I get them from my supply house which in this case is Webb's


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Personally, I use rigid supplies on about everything. BUT, I understand some of you guys justifying them. Time is money, I'm sure flexes are much faster. 

Where do we stop though? 

We have braided flexes on lavs and wc's. What's next? 

Flexible piping mains all through the entire home? Oh wait. Nevermind........


I use Epco di-electric unions Rocksteady. They make up nice. Foreign ones stretch rather than get tight on the taper..........


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

im a firm believer in the saying- if i wouldnt put it in my house i wouldnt put in my customers house. i dont put flexes or comp stops in my own home and we defintly dont put them in customers houses.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

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You can be a pro in a matter of minutes. And now for only $19.95 we will send you not one but two boxes of FlexiDWV and we will include our handy guide to home owner hack plumbing FREE, Yes FREE so call today and order yours. Limit one per idiot, non refundable, price does not include shipping and FlexiDWV is not liable for any unsafe or unsanitary conditions that may occur because you don't have a F'ing clue what in hell you are doing. :thumbsup:



If there were an award for sarcastic ******* of the week I should be in the running every damn day


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I've said it before, flex this and flex that is cheapening our trade. Hard-pipe it fellahs. And use sweat stops when ever possible.....:thumbsup:



If you're gonna feel so strongly about that, why not use an extension angle valve with a bell escution. That way that copper doesn't show between your plate escution & regular angle valve. Just Sayin'.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Mostly stainless braided and pex. NEVER a problem with either. Occasionally Chrome plated when I feel its called for. I have several sizes of the SS braided and never have to loop it.

There will always be plenty of people who refuse to or cant do their own work. Its not a crime to make your Job a little easier.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*since 1990*

There will always be plenty of people who refuse to or cant do their own work. Its not a crime to make your Job a little easier.[/QUOTE]




I had to go to SS brainded supply lines back in 1990...
the main reason was production work and the moronic idiots that worked for me could not bend a peice of pipe to make it look good.. or it would take them an hour and 5 trys before they could bend it right...

or they would cross thread the ferruell and it would leak and cause water damage..

I solved all those problems with the SS connectors....no more carrying extra ferruellls, cone washers, slip rings ect...
I have never had any complaints, never had any failures, 
never had to go back and change them out to appease the pickey customer....

I dont understand what the big deal is anyway, when you consider that *rubber 60psi rated washing machine hoses* have been out since the 40s.. and have caused very few problems..... and now that they are SS braided they probably will last forever...



look at my Brass Craft flex connectors on this heater
these SS braided black beauties save me at least a full hour 
also notice the connector at the water softener.




go ahead boys, tear it up


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I've always used Pex lines and take pride in proper installation. As far as how they hold up I feel more secure with them in the long run than with copper any day with our water. And with the price I have a really good profit margin with them which helps when I'm trying to keep my prices down plus listening to ho's moan about my pricing as it is.
But I'm rethinking some of this, may be a way to up my game. 
I'd still use Pex though in some instances such as Dishwashers and anything used for R/O water such as fridges.,


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## Evelse (Feb 2, 2012)

Hard supply lines aren't going to stop a HO from changing it themselves in the future. I doubt most homeowners will change a valve regardless if it's compression of sweat. If its visible such as a water closet or pedestal sink chrome looks better. I never use PEX supplies. Total garbage. Where the trade gets real cheapened is by the plumbers charging to install a HWT and they use those damn shark bite flex connectors. I am a one man shop and I replaced around 100 tanks last year. Every single one of them were hard piped except when I hooked up to CPVC supplies.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Just curious, has anyone here seen a properly installed pex supply fail? If you want to say they look like crap fine but as far as function, they work excellent.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*Garbage?*



Evelse said:


> Hard supply lines aren't going to stop a HO from changing it themselves in the future. I doubt most homeowners will change a valve regardless if it's compression of sweat. If its visible such as a water closet or pedestal sink chrome looks better. I never use PEX supplies. Total garbage. Where the trade gets real cheapened is by the plumbers charging to install a HWT and they use those damn shark bite flex connectors. I am a one man shop and I replaced around 100 tanks last year. Every single one of them were hard piped except when I hooked up to CPVC supplies.


Total garbage? From what point of view? In harsh water conditions they'll outlast copper or anything else I'm aware of. I've been using them for more years than I even care to admitt and have yet to see one failure. *Not one* and that includes splitting, pinholing, self crimping in hot water, and can reuse if want too though I always replace when replace the faucet or whatever. If you want to use other things because of making it harder on the diy's or because you want chrome that's fine, but as far as performance they can't be beat. It's surprising how many plumber's or anyone else for that matter doesn't know not to use brass ferrils though once again I've never seen one cut but I will only use plastic ferrils.
Use what you want I don't care but their good material.


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## Evelse (Feb 2, 2012)

pauliplumber said:


> Just curious, has anyone here seen a properly installed pex supply fail? If you want to say they look like crap fine but as far as function, they work excellent.


More the look for me. I've seem them leak sure but everything leaks eventually. I've heard of then bursting but honestly have not seen it no.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Look at it like this. would you slap flexi supply lines under the fixtures in a 2 million dollar home? If so, maybe a career re-think is in order but regardless, if not in a 2 million dollar home then why in a 250 thousand dollar home or any home for that matter?


 I went with SS braided supplies after a homeowner with a lot more money than me threatened to sue me after a rigid supply they had spent 4 or 5 years jamming an undersink garbage can against finally threw it's hands up in the air and said 'I quit' and then peed all over their parquet floor.

I *get* you raging against the machine about 'Craftsmanship' -- Truly I do.

OTOH, I want to install a product that will bounce aside, withstand abuse and not wipe out the inheritance I have set aside for my kids and the Grandcritters.

This is a 'no-brainer' for me. Go with the flow or find yourself left behind.


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## Evelse (Feb 2, 2012)

mpsllc said:


> Total garbage? From what point of view? In harsh water conditions they'll outlast copper or anything else I'm aware of. I've been using them for more years than I even care to admitt and have yet to see one failure. Not one and that includes splitting, pinholing, self crimping in hot water, and can reuse if want too though I always replace when replace the faucet or whatever. If you want to use other things because of making it harder on the diy's or because you want chrome that's fine, but as far as performance they can't be beat. It's surprising how many plumber's or anyone else for that matter doesn't know not to use brass ferrils though once again I've never seen one cut but I will only use plastic ferrils.
> Use what you want I don't care but their good material.


They look cheap. I personally don't see them outlasting any other supply. If someone's paying good money a good product should be delivered. PEX supplies do have a place. In new construction for the large builders who don't pay squat


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> go ahead boys, tear it up


As I said. Flexes are much faster. Especially for those that may not have any business being in the trade itself. (If you can't prevent a compression joint from crossing or leaking)

I'd say it looks like dick, but you don't care about looks. It's all about the speed. 

Two out of three has been brought up here before.....

1.Fast
2.Cheap

Not good........


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## Evelse (Feb 2, 2012)

ILPlumber said:


> As I said. Flexes are much faster. Especially for those that may not have any business being in the trade itself. (If you can't prevent a compression joint from crossing or leaking)
> 
> I'd say it looks like dick, but you don't care about looks. It's all about the speed.
> 
> ...


Fast and cheap are good. But that should never be a substitute for quality. Especially on an expensive job like a HWT. Torch and solder it every time


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

We have high water pressure here and the only pex supply I've seen fail was with a metal ferrule. Always use the plastic ferrule. There is no way a properly installed pex supply will blow apart.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Evelse said:


> They look cheap. I personally don't see them outlasting any other supply. If someone's paying good money a good product should be delivered. PEX supplies do have a place. In new construction for the large builders who don't pay squat


Beg to differ, I've been doing this for years and have seen plenty copper supply's pinhole, freeze split or just plain look like crap with all the green mineral from leaking connections running down them. Learn how to install them properly, I don't care what you use if it wasn't installed properly it will look like crap.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

ILPlumber said:


> As I said. Flexes are much faster. Especially for those that may not have any business being in the trade itself. (If you can't prevent a compression joint from crossing or leaking)
> 
> I'd say it looks like dick, but you don't care about looks. It's all about the speed.
> 
> ...



It's funny -- Most Plumbers look at a new product and wonder if it will save them a few minutes on the install and wonder if it will save them a few bucks.

I look at a new product and wonder if it will prevent me from being sued.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> It's funny -- Most Plumbers look at a new product and wonder if it will save them a few minutes on the install and wonder if it will save them a few bucks.
> 
> I look at a new product and wonder if it will prevent me from being sued.


Agrees, I also look at it and wonder if it will CAUSE me to be sued.


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## Evelse (Feb 2, 2012)

mpsllc said:


> Beg to differ, I've been doing this for years and have seen plenty copper supply's pinhole, freeze split or just plain look like crap with all the green mineral from leaking connections running down them. Learn how to install them properly, I don't care what you use if it wasn't installed properly it will look like crap.


Yes that is true. I agree completely. All that being said and I see your side I still won't use them. Just my opinion. You're not wrong for using them although I like to believe I'm always right!


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

mpsllc said:


> Agrees, I also look at it and wonder if it will CAUSE me to be sued.


 I will never argue that rigid supplies look more professional.

OTOH, I will argue that most HO's, so long as it functions, could give a wet beery fart what it looks like.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I will never argue that rigid supplies look more professional.
> 
> OTOH, I will argue that most HO's, so long as it functions, could give a wet beery fart what it looks like.


 
I have yet had a customer ask me what kinda supply lines do you use.

I use SS braided and I was taught by the oldest old school plumber in the world,


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> I will never argue that rigid supplies look more professional.
> 
> OTOH, I will argue that most HO's, so long as it functions, could give a wet beery fart what it looks like.


Well said.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> i dont put flexes or comp stops in my own home and we defintly dont put them in customers houses.


 You don't own a home.

Your argument is invalid.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> You don't own a home.
> 
> Your argument is invalid.


In our home then, my home and our home is the same thing.
And I do all the plumbing in this house, so it is valid 


sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I have seen 3/8" clear pex supplies pinhole if looped or bent.
and the coiled pex IM lines get holes all the time.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Typically if I'm doing a custom installation where looks definitely count of course I do the rigid chromed gig not big deal. 
I say if you like what you're doing stay with it and we'll meet for a cup somewhere.
The world goes round, I think it's more important to be comfortable with what you're doing and if something better comes along or if you see a different view point then make a change. I'm considering it but for the reasons I'm comfortable with because there has to be more to it than just opinion. 
( cross threaded comp nuts? good grief:no


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> In our home then, my home and our home is the same thing.
> And I do all the plumbing in this house, so it is valid
> 
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


 No it isn't.

There is nothing and I mean nothing that trumps the self satisfaction of true ownership.

You're a bright young man -- You'll get there one day


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> There is nothing and I mean nothing that trumps the self satisfaction of true ownership.


You Are defintly right about that.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

beachplumber said:


> I have seen 3/8" clear pex supplies pinhole if looped or bent.
> and the coiled pex IM lines get holes all the time.


Sounds like you're talking about the cheap poly crap, clear or black. I see that stuff go all the time, and refuse to use it but it's not to be confused with Pex though. The Pex is same stuff as the big Pex with thick walls and can be compressed. You won't get a comp sleeve into pex.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> In our home then, my home and our home is the same thing.
> And I do all the plumbing in this house, so it is valid
> 
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


You're plumbing your home the best way you know how for you're family's safety and comfort. Your home or not the end result is the same.
Good job MP.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*that is the truth....*



Widdershins said:


> I will never argue that rigid supplies look more professional.
> 
> OTOH, I will argue that most HO's, so long as it functions,
> could give a wet beery fart what it looks like.


 

That is the 100% absolute truth, the customer does not give a damn 
how it looks like as long as it takes the crap away and they have hot water..........

I used to stress about it all and its really all in your own mind.. 
I have seen pex nightmares that have
stopped me in my tracks and the people living in the home were totally clueless........:laughing::blink::blink:.... 



I prefer the SS hoses because there is less chance of a leak, 
less chance of me paying for damages and being sued .... 

*also, I believe that flex connectors actually protect a water *
*heater from electralsis much better than hard pipeing it .... *

I have seen dialectric unions totally corrode shut after 6 years in service....*. *
the flex lines totally disconnect the heater from the plumbing system* ground *

also, the flex connectors give the heater the room to expand and contract
over time......and there is no stress on the incomming and outgoing water lines
at the wall



If you absolutely must install a water heater with dialectric unions, 
then put level on the pipes take it apart 5 times, and sand and clean all the copper joints afterwards, 

I say .......by all means ....go for it..


I will be finishing up water heater #2 and heading on my third call 
before you are done with that hard piped heater


and thats ok.
I know its good, and will last a long time..

:yes::yes:


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> I prefer the SS hoses because there is less chance of a leak,
> less chance of me paying for damages and being sued ....
> 
> *also, I believe that flex connectors actually protect a water *
> ...


Here's my take: good luck pulling an anode rod on a hard piped B.W. water heater.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

JK949 said:


> Here's my take: good luck pulling an anode rod on a hard piped B.W. water heater.


 
In a worst case scenario, you'd have to cut the copper in two places, pull and replace the anode and install a new union and coupling. What would this add to an otherwise simple anode change-out? 30 minutes tops?







Paul


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Right about here is where a beer bottle gets thrown across the bar, someone breaks a chair over the other fella's back and then the shootin starts. 

Widdy, eloquent as ever my good man. Beery fart indeed :laughing:


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

I'm all for doing it old school and having a lovely presentation up to the faucet... but times change and some of the new fangled crappola isn't so crappy after all. It seems that the only people that look under sinks and lavs are other plumbers. I aomost feel like leaving them a note (sometimes I do; "_Miguel was here!!!_) :laughing:

In the past two yrs every house we've done has been piped in PEX by the HO's direction. We stub out KS and lavs with mini-ball 1/4 turn supply stops. WC's we stub out with copper so that we can use either a MacGuire or Dahl chrome angle stop (the Dahls are compression but the HO cares little about that!).

So for lavs and sinks we either use the SS braided supply tubes or the SS braided supplies that the HO's fave faucet came with, and for the WC's we use the chrome plated flex tubes that you have to bend. It takes no time at all but my only beef is that nowadays it seems that the chrome flakes off as soon as you bend the tube!!!!

Ha! Even did a Toto Aquia with a chromed copper supply line once... but I ain't gonna try that anytime soon.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

I recently installed Kohler (San Rafael I think) toilet that came with a, supplied by kohler, fluidmaster ss supply. It also had a tag telling me warranty is void if I didn't use it. This toilet was not from a big box store, it was from my supply house.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Hard pipe water heaters need unions by code, what stops the homeowner from undoing the union and thinking they can just connect it to the new heater? Hard pipe or not, a diy is gonna do what they think they can do to either save money or act like a super star

When I plumbed in Los Angeles, I always flexed in my water heaters just because of earthquakes. Straps or not, they will still move. Plus I have seen dielectrics fail, they are horrible fittings. The only unions I like are the forged brass x copper unions, but they are 38$ each!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Why does everything today, have to be so freakin fast? I mean if I'm at a customers house, sometimes it takes as long for them to tell me their stories, than it does for the actual work to be performed. But I am a 1 man show, so I can take a few more minutes, & the customer appreciates it, & makes my day a bit more interesting to.

I have the attitude, that this is a career not a race. I aint going to piddle, but I aint going to run around like a crazy man all day either.

Even if I was to schedule 3 or 4 water heater installs a day, & flex em all, it always seems that my customers say those 3 famous words, "WHILE YOUR HERE". And since I am a 1 man show, I don't want to have to come back another time, but I can still charge this customer for extra work, & I aint got to travel again.

Now I had a NG water heater just 2 weeks ago, that had a recirc pump hooked up to. All piped in hard copper. The heater was in a tight space of this finished off, now flooded basement. They wanted a high recovery 50 gal 65,000 BTU. No big deal. But now this heater has 10" centers on hot & cold instead of 8", & the recirc line has to be moved to. Time consuming. This was my 2nd water heater of the day, so I got to this job about noon.

Then when I hooked up the natural draft vent, it was not venting properly, & was piped into B-vent chimney. Found about a 4ft thick birds nest, that had to be removed. Then they wanted a new sump pump, so I did that too. Could have never even come close to getting to that 3rd water heater of the day, but I could stay at this job, & get everything done 100%, & make descent $$$ too.

Not saying you guys that schedule so much,(for each man), in one day are wrong, I'm saying I don't know how the heck you do it, without disappointing, or having to cancel the last job or 2 of the day.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Add ons are great if you have time to do them. Depends on what it is and how tight I'm booked, time left in the day etc. Nothing wrong with rescheduling.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> Add ons are great if you have time to do them. Depends on what it is and how tight I'm booked, time left in the day etc. Nothing wrong with rescheduling.


Your right about rescheduling, but tough sometimes to come back if its like a simple faucet repair, leak, or toilet repair. In fact most times, if you can't do it now,"WHILE YOUR HERE", they say forget it.

But I'm talkin about the birds nest removal, reworking of piping, or the other little unexpected too, that has to be done, at the time. Even though its extra $$$, you can't buy more time. Just saying!


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> Hard pipe water heaters need unions by code, what stops the homeowner from undoing the union and thinking they can just connect it to the new heater? Hard pipe or not, a diy is gonna do what they think they can do to either save money or act like a super star
> 
> When I plumbed in Los Angeles, I always flexed in my water heaters just because of earthquakes. Straps or not, they will still move. Plus I have seen dielectrics fail, they are horrible fittings. The only unions I like are the forged brass x copper unions, but they are 38$ each!



bizzy, are u sure that is in the code. I may be mistaken, but i think i won the argument against the inspector. From what i recall it is only a manufacturer recomendation not requirment


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I prefer SS braided, I would keep a few chrome lines on the truck for those stops that were odd sized mid 50's houses. Other than that if we touched a toilet and left a hard supply line in, it was our AS*.

First time I saw the PEX lines was when I moved to OK. When I see them I think about all the poly lines I have seen break. Here we can use them but only with a metal ferral.

It's kinda funny how opinions differ from place to place. In AZ if I saw a chrome line I thought they were asking for a flood. Here in OK most plumbers who see I like SS think I'm a twit because they use PEX. It might be different here because we have 1.5 supply houses and if they don't carry it they don't know what it is.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

WTF double posts


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

beachplumber said:


> bizzy, are u sure that is in the code. I may be mistaken, but i think i won the argument against the inspector. From what i recall it is only a manufacturer recomendation not requirment


Dielectric unions are code here in Mich. I know exactly why to. It's simple, they are a water saving device.:yes: Can't believe everyone don't know that. Ya, they corrode so fast, that they restrict the flow in no time, & save thousands of gallons of water.

Disconnected lots of heaters that were installed against code, with copper FIP adapters. Those POS things did not restrict the water whatsoever.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

beachplumber said:


> bizzy, are u sure that is in the code. I may be mistaken, but i think i won the argument against the inspector. From what i recall it is only a manufacturer recomendation not requirment



I think every appliance that might be changed needs a way to unhook from whatever. Flexes acts as unions, you probably install a union after a valve when hard piping gas, same same. But it all comes down to what the inspector wants. Even if he don't know jack:laughing:.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Maybe the next big thing to come out, to save even more time, will be a closet, & lav supply, with a shark bite on one end, so we don't have to take all that time to unscrew the compression nut, & possibly cross thread it. Just chop off the copper or pex line about an inch above the valve, & push on a 3/8" shark bite?:whistling2: 

Another thing too, when I complain to supply house, about anything, quality wise, whether its tank to bowl bolts, toilet seats, faucets,supply lines, or any other inferior materials they all of a sudden decide to stock, their favorite response is, we haven't had any problems or complaints. So I guess I'm the only contractor to beach about, some of the junk they send out.:furious: I bend one of their chrome, or satin supply lines, with my tubing bender, & I got the finish shavings, all over, cuz the cheap (cheap quality, not cheap price) finish, just peels off. 

They gave me Centaco toilet seat yesterday, for an Amer. Std. cadet 3,(which is their biggest seller) RF toilet, cuz they were out of the one I ordered. The seat stuck out past the edge of the bowl, all the way around, atleast 1/2". Looked like crap. But I bet, I'm the only one, this has ever happened to.:yes:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Don The Plumber said:


> So I guess I'm the only contractor to beach about, some of the junk they send out.:furious: I bend one of their chrome, or satin supply lines, with my tubing bender, & I got the finish shavings, all over, cuz the cheap (cheap quality, not cheap price) finish, just peels off.



I was bending a Brasscraft WC supply earlier in the week and got one of those shavings jammed under my thumbnail. It hurt like hell.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I went with SS braided supplies after a homeowner with a lot more money than me threatened to sue me after a rigid supply they had spent 4 or 5 years jamming an undersink garbage can against finally threw it's hands up in the air and said 'I quit' and then peed all over their parquet floor.


Run galvanized risers all the way to the faucet, problem solved.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

beachplumber said:


> bizzy, are u sure that is in the code. I may be mistaken, but i think i won the argument against the inspector. From what i recall it is only a manufacturer recomendation not requirment


I need to look at the code, you may be right, I see copper connected to these heaters out here all the time, which is wrong, I know for a fact dielectric protection is required, and in most cases is achieved with a union. I would never hard pipe without a union, maybe that's just the way I was trained.

Flex lines are considered unions, both for water and gas. 

I know upc, every hard piped heater had to have unions or a means on disconnection. I will check IPC when I have a moment, but either way, in my mind its good habit to put it on a union.


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