# Opinion's Please



## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

OK, GC calls me on Monday, say's the dishwasher in a 2 story office building, that we did, isn't getting water. He wants me to make the 70 minute drive out there and check it out. No problem, we stand behind our work. He also tells me that the suite downstairs has a smell in the kitchen, and wants me to check that out while i'm there, can charge service call for that one. OK, we get there, go upstairs and check the sink: hot water, check the stop going to the dishwasher, ON. Shut the door, turn the knob (el cheapo unit), nothing. The bottom panels are loose, pull them out and look, NO PIGTAIL ON THE ELECTRICAL BOX. He gets there, and I tell him that the electrician didn't hook up the pigtail and plug it in. It won't get water without the electric hooked up, has an electrical solenoid valve. He spends 20 minutes looking all over for the pigtail ( we did this job almost a year ago) He asks me to pull it out and check for a outlet. I pull the screws out, pull the unit out and theres the outlet.
He goes to the orange box store and gets one, and has another electrictian install it. He asks me to wait untill there finished and make sure it woks, and there's water. Put the unit back in, reinstall the screws, turn the knob and walla, there's water. Put the bottom panels on. 

I then send him a bill for service call. He calls and asks why I sent him a bill, "It's a warranty" issue. I told him no, not a warranty issue, the electrictian didn't do his job, was not a plumbing issue. He says he's not paying, im trying to "stick it to him" 

Am I right or wrong. Comments?

Bruce


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I would charge him my normal rate. That is not warranty work at all.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Absolutely your right. He should pay you, and try to recover the money from the electrician.


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

Yup you should get paid for that one, he is a GC he could have pulled the loose cover off and seen wat you seen.. Charge him for the whole shot.. IMO

Lifer...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

If he's to lazy to check it out himself, and try to waste your time, then he needs to pay...


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Is this GC stupid??????

Simple your work was done.... His mistake... He should have called the electrician first......

But over all the electrcial was not done.... so it is his problem not yours.... I would make him pay for it simple as that...

You learn from your mistakes and when money is involved you learn faster... just maybe the GC will learn something from this


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Ah, the good ol GC strikes again. Stick to your guns Bruce, no way should you eat it.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Txmasterplumber said:


> Am I right or wrong. Comments?
> 
> Bruce


 

You're right.







Paul


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

You are right...

You can't warrantee the sparkys whoopsy....

What was the smell in the kitchen???


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## luv2plumb (Apr 30, 2010)

If he is going to pay the other electrician for hooking it up then you should get paid for your time after all you diagnosed the problem


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Charge him your regular fee and an additional $200 stupid tax.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Yeah, he owes you a service call. If the sparky fudged up, he can back charge it to him.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*70 miles,,,, ouch*

No doubt he owes you, you did nothing wrong. Though around here when I was deep into new work we put the pigtails on the disposal and DW. The electricians never seemed to be around when the time came how could we check the units out. Maybe that's what the GC was used to??? The decision to bill him could weigh a lot on if he has made other ridicules calls like this or was this the first. If you want to do more new work for him you may want to eat it. That said,,, as a gent he should have offered to pay your bill.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Who was it that ones said GCs are the spawn of the devil?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Who was it that ones said GCs are the spawn of the devil?


Master Mark... :thumbup:


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm gonna ask a dumb question-

If the receptacle is behind the dishwasher, how was sparky supposed to do his thing with the dish washer hooked up and set?

I'm not saying you did anything wrong. Maybe next time give the gc a call and tell him you're gonna be setting the DW and he better get sparky there or he's gonna be screwed.

Obviously its not a warranty issue and he needs to throw you a bone.

Can you pad the sewer smell bill a bit?


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

Do all you guys hook up DW waterlines, and then screw them into place without the power hooked up? It would never occur to me to do that. I either hook the power up myself, or have a sparky on hand to do it. Do you call an electrician when you change out an electric HWT?


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm sorry I'm English, what does gc stand for?


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

You performed a diagnostic

You spent time on the job unrelated to quoting or warranty work.

Charge, Charge, Charge.


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## VIPlumber (Mar 14, 2010)

> what does gc stand for?


General Contractor.:jester:


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

My area all DW are hard wired and can be wired after DW is installed. GC did not do his job and wants you to pay for it


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Once the problem was identified, the that fact the gc was willing to get an electrician to wire the DW shows he didn't expect the plumber (you) to do so either then or in the first place. His actions show that he didn't think the plumber (you) was responsible for the problem. Judging from those actions, his refusal to pay the bill is not logically sustainable. 

On the other hand, if he's otherwise a good account who has treated you fair in the past, I'd say let it go. Going forward, if you feel strongly that you've been wronged, pad his future bills until you feel recompensed. 

And.... make sure any proposals sent to him for future work state that unsubstantiated call backs will be charged at such and such a rate.


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## ReelPlumber (Jan 14, 2011)

To me this is one of theose things you have to way out. With the economy these days you don't want to burn any bridges. If this is a customer that you do alot of work for then make it up down the road. To me it is not worth a few hundred dollars to piss off potential larger contract amounts. If it is someone that always takes the low bid and does not have a relationship with his subs then tell him you need to get paid for the work.
I always pick my battles and for the amount of work we do annually for some clients it is worth it to do a freebie every so often. Just remember you can make it up on another job or change order.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I had a GC call about a remodel yesterday. I ask him for references. He got mad and hung up.

I don't know who came up with the concept that a GC handled all the money, but IMO, they should be beaten severely about the head and shoulders.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ianclapham said:


> I'm sorry I'm English, what does gc stand for?


GC means Good Criminal....:laughing:


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## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

I would have set DW if electric box was behind it or not. How many times have I had to wait to set DW because sparky cant put his plug under sink. I refuse to do sparky's job for him. If he is going to put it behind DW then it needs to be a loose box so he can do it himself.
CHARGE GC $500.00 you had a 70 minute drive and the price of gas now a days


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

send GC *and* sparky a bill, let them fight over it. Throw enough $hit at a wall and somethings bound to stick. GC= GODDAMNED CROOK


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

slickrick said:


> I had a GC call about a remodel yesterday. I ask him for references. He got mad and hung up....


Nice!


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

Airgap said:


> You are right...
> 
> You can't warrantee the sparkys whoopsy....
> 
> What was the smell in the kitchen???


Didn't smell like sewer gas to me.... had a vinagery smell ( maybe one of the 'ol gals took a douce on her lunch break) . The GC, in question, had an electrician there checking out the electric. I thought maybe a ballast burning ...... NO. No burnt wires. They had already checked most everything out by the time we got there. There was no smell above the dropped ceiling. The smell seemed to be hovering around floor area. I told him that it was probably a dead mouse in the wall somewhere, or else a broke sewer line below the floor. The building is a little over 2 years old. Told him that if the smell didn't go away in a week or so, that we could come back with the inspection camera and sewer camera. 
I charged him a service call and diagnostic charge on this one.


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Absolutely your right. He should pay you, and try to recover the money from the electrician.


He said that the electrician that did the job in the suite that we did went belly up......... NOT MY PROBLEM!


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

Colgar said:


> I'm gonna ask a dumb question-
> 
> If the receptacle is behind the dishwasher, how was sparky supposed to do his thing with the dish washer hooked up and set?
> 
> ...


I gave hime 2 seperate invoices, one for smell, and one for dishwasher, sent them at the same time.


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

plumber666 said:


> Do all you guys hook up DW waterlines, and then screw them into place without the power hooked up? It would never occur to me to do that. I either hook the power up myself, or have a sparky on hand to do it. Do you call an electrician when you change out an electric HWT?


Not trying to repeat, just answering all the questions that are asked....

Some cities require hardline hook ups, some what hardline with a switch like for the disposal, some allow pigtails. 

No, if we change out a disposal or water heater, it states in our code book that we can replace the wiring, but not on new installations.


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

express said:


> My area all DW are hard wired and can be wired after DW is installed. GC did not do his job and wants you to pay for it


GC's are nothing but glorified check writers. Most of them have not a clue on what is going on. They get most of their jobs from the Golf Course and then find some poor unknowing saps to do the work.

In Texas, home builders used to have to have a license. The state started it back about 8 years ago, then probably 3 years ago, did away with it. All they had to do is fill out an online application, send in there money and walla, they're a builder. They were supposed to register each house or job with the state, which most of the time they didn't, didn't want to spend the $100 bucks.... money out of their Cadilac or BMW payment....... almost every builder I have ever known cried about going broke, not making any money.... as they drove off in their Hummer.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Txmasterplumber said:


> He said that the electrician that did the job in the suite that we did went belly up.........


It was probably caused by the quality of GC's he had for customers...:laughing:


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

And that is the precise scenario that has filled to with disgust at times to the point I am ready to find other means to make my living. I don't know what to tell you. I have found some peace and sanctity in commercial work. Cuz it boils me....

Here is my experience... you will not get paid for it. I can tell you beyond a reasonable doubt that the same P.O.S. you are describing thinks he is king shiot because of Home Depot, and most likely speaks to you as if your work isn't important and lacks value...

I really did wish I knew the magic answer, due to the economic Jimmy Carter repeat we are experiencing, It happens more often and hits home a little quicker at 3 something a gallon. Amazingly enough, many will think nothing of calling you back again and thats when you say.... I appreciate your call however, I can't work with you any longer because your lack of experience and construction knowledge cost me money. I also like to make good and sure that every single one of my comrades in the industry know who he is. 

Rest assured the guy who he does it to next... may not have the integrity you do... he could end up with a karma problem.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

If there is an outlet, I always plug a pig tail in and bring the end to the front.
As for the GC, he is using the logic of a politician.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

plumbpro said:


> If there is an outlet, I always plug a pig tail in and bring the end to the front.
> As for the GC, he is using the logic of a politician.


do you put wire nuts on there to prevent accidental shock hazards ?

i'm just saying............


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

I do put wire nuts on the end. All the sparky's I work with are friendly and competent and we share in order to make a job go smoother. The pigtail and nuts are miniscule compared to having to go back out to a job. I have nicked a few wires in my day with a self feed and have never been back charged for the repair.


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## t&kplumbing (Jan 15, 2011)

*dishwasher*

i know you got lots of reply on this issue but one more don't hurt... 
GC will try to get away with what ever we let them. charge him $$$$ he would not come to your house for free.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

ianclapham said:


> I'm sorry I'm English, what does gc stand for?


Basically, gc means wanker.:jester:


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## UALocal1Plumber (May 13, 2009)

I disagree with the notion of "firing" the GC for being a pain in the ass. . .

This guy is refusing to pay the bill. As long as he doesn't pay, then sure, you can't be doing service for him. Once he pays though, why wouldn't you work for him again? As long as he (or any other clueless manager) is willing to pay the invoices you send, what do you care if the work is productive or not? I wouldn't mind getting a few $500 invoices a month to stand around and wait for an electrician to show up to a jobsite. 

Just saying, as long as you can bill for it, do the "work" that the moron wants you to do.

Remember we're in business, not in hobby.

Keith


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

You said it right,,, we are a business not a hobby. Yeah the GC may pay but heres the thing, if I have to beg and send and resend invoices for non payments I tend to get hot under the collar. I don't like looking in an ever thickening unpaid invoice folder and seeing the same customer (GC or not) hasn't paid. It weighs heavily on my decision to work for them again.


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

*Update!*

Well I went to the PO on Saturday. I finally got a check from the GC in question, and suprisingly, he paid both invoices. I didn't figure that he would pay it. 
I agree to some extent on your thoughts, but it just isn't worth my time having to explain every invoice and why he's getting billed for something that was not a fault of ours. He actually told me: "your trying to rip me off". If he is in the business of building multi story buildings, he should have the intelligence to check minor things out before he calls complaining that there's no water. It's alway's the plumbers fault.


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

I hate having to explain my bill to someone that says " I don't understand" it really means I am stalling to come up with a reason you should lower your price.
sometimes I am too thin skinned.


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