# Sewer repair



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Boss is giving me more responsibility digging trenches With the tractor . Today I did a 15' spot repair luckily it was only 30" deep . Pics are of my journeyman who was there to make sure I did everything right . I was running the mini what do you guys think 









We were waiting on the inspector


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Boss is giving me more responsibility digging trenches With the tractor . Today I did a 15' spot repair luckily it was only 30" deep . Pics are of my journeyman who was there to make sure I did everything right . I was running the mini what do you guys think
> 
> We were waiting on the inspector


What up with that pressure tee, or san tee. How u pass that off!


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

It's a sch 40 clean out tee made just for that !


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> It's a sch 40 clean out tee made just for that !


Schedule 40 clean out tee?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

That tee looks suspiciously like a san-tee. For cleanouts, I prefer 2 one way cleanouts facing eachother. 







Paul


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Why can't you use a San tee for a clean out? I would have used a wye and 45 to make snaking easier but a San tee is acctable.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

That's what we put in and that's what I've been told to use . I'm still a rookie and learning but we use schedule 40 pipe for underground replacement and it's a clean out tee.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> Why can't you use a San tee for a clean out? I would have used a wye and 45 to make snaking easier but a San tee is acctable.


We use 2 ways, where u can go both directions. It look like a pressure tee. Pressure tees have a recess space after it pass theough hub and it has to jump back up to get to other side. It will work but wont pass if its a pressure fitting round here. Dwv fittings are what we use on waste.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

It is a DWV fitting .


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

What one u using.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

The one on the right is what we used


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

That a straight tee. DWV. You can get a cable both ways easily. Very common around here. I prefer a 2 way C.O. tee if 4" or smaller but 6" meh. They use sch 40 so they dont have to use rock to meet our code. I prefer rock and sdr 35 as I have yet to see a perfectly graded ditch.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

It depends on where we are at and the code for the municipality we are in no matter if we have to Rock the ditch or not we always use sched 40.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> The one on the right is what we used


Right on , i guess just diff area of u.s. 
Try putting one of them on a new commercial job or residential job around here and they will probably run u off job. 

I just never had seen anyone use a fitting without sweeping directions before. I see them on old old old homes , but nothing up to date. 

My argent was on the waste flow in blttom of pipe. Drainage fittings are hubbed so as to allow waste to flow without any restrictions or up and downs. That tee that u are using does not have that pattern. 

No harm intended.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm assuming you haven't done much drain cleaning. 30" deep isn't too bad but I still prefer 2 cleanouts, both using 4" combos or a wye and 1/8 bend, facing each other. This keeps all but the most inept drain cleaners from blowing out a w/c and ruining the shag carpet.







Paul


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

I've done my fair share and most sewers I have done are 8 to 10' deep !


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

And you put 2 clean outs in ? How close together do you out them and how deep are your sewers where you are at


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Plumbing newbie said:


> I've done my fair share and most sewers I have done are 8 to 10' deep !


A straight tee used as a cleanout, on a 10' deep sewer line is just asking for trouble. A san-tee is 5% better on a line that deep. How are you able to ensure your cable is going the right direction if you have a straight tee (and you don't know it's down there since it's full of poopoo juice) 8' - 10' deep? 



Plumbing newbie said:


> And you put 2 clean outs in ? How close together do you out them and how deep are your sewers where you are at


This isn't my work, just something I found on Google. This is how I do them.










Sewers aren't too deep around here. I'd say anywhere from 12" to 7'. The ones deeper than 4' are rare.





Paul


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Well if there is a clean out and you see no water and they are backed up then the blockage is from there to stack and other way around you can see sewage than it's out farther . And usually you can tell just by the way the cable hits either side of the pipe


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## flynnstone (Nov 14, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> I'm assuming you haven't done much drain cleaning. 30" deep isn't too bad but I still prefer 2 cleanouts, both using 4" combos or a wye and 1/8 bend, facing each other. This keeps all but the most inept drain cleaners from blowing out a w/c and ruining the shag carpet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did one like what your talking about last week, 2) 4" dwv pvc combos facing each other about 5' down a trench, put a relief on one and a plug on the other and labeled them with a sharpie which direction they go. Helps big time the day it ever backs up and you know which way your snake is heading.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Also here that would be a lot more money for the extra fittings and pipe .


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

You can clearly see the tee he used is hubbed. 

I use the double combos or a 2 way c.o. fitting on 4".

In a 6" tee I can tell (usually) by lifting slightly on the cable and watching which side of the pipe my cable is against although I prefer directional fittings. It makes a better job.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Well if there is a clean out and you see no water and they are backed up then the blockage is from there to stack and other way around you can see sewage than it's out farther . And *usually* you can tell just by the way the cable hits either side of the pipe


 
Well, obviously it's easy to see when there's no water in there but when it's full it's not. The deeper the pipe gets, the harder it is to tell what's happening down there. "Usually" isn't good enough when you're telling the customer "I don't *usually* do this. I can *usually* tell which way the cable is going. Sorry but you now need a new toilet."




Really, this doesn't have anything to do with how good of a drain cleaner you are. It's about the other guy. You have no idea who might be throwing a cable down that line in 15 years.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Well the way I've been taught I can tell how much cable I have in and for me to make it all the way to the toilet is pretty unlikely but not impossible. I've only been doing all this for two years but have some awesome jps and mp they are teaching a lot and I'm learning some on my own .


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

BTW Newbie a little advice for you. Instead of kicking your feet back on the rig and napping in the landscaping you would be wise to find something to do. It looks bad to the homeowner and I personally as a boss would chew your everlivin' ass for that. There is always something to do son, and I dont want to hear you were waiting on the inspector either. Clean the tools, the truck, the rig........Something.  

Now on the fat chance that you were on your lunch break simply consider the above good practice. Otherwise get off your AZZ. :laughing:


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

That type of cleanout will keep hanging up a sewer cable, on the retrieve especially, not to mention scraping a jetter hose. 2-way c.o. here. I like the double combo for the deep ones, but here in Fl ours are shallow and a probe rod down the c.o. will help determine direction.

You need a permit for that? Just replacing a section of existing pipe? yeesh!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> Why can't you use a San tee for a clean out? I would have used a wye and 45 to make snaking easier but a San tee is acctable.


That would make it impossible to snake it back towards the house. 

A wye + 45 is fine except when then blockage is before the wye and you have to go in the house to snake out. A cleanout tee, or other tee allows for you to feed into the house. 

Work looks good to me, only thing I see wrong is the guy laying down and the feet propped up on the machine. Perception matters. You may have done fine work, but what does the public think of the plumbers chilling out?


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Well one guys it was for the pic and no one was home and two it was 12 when we were waiting for the instructor so we had lunch and actually did all those things . Clean the tractor I greased every fitting on that thing . I know the pictures makes it looks like we were Doing Nothing but our boss would have are ass if we actually later around it was just a pic !


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Also I know that looks bad but I know my place and I do my job! I'm the first one to work everyday and the last one to leave most of the time ! Don't judge just off the pictures


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## TerryO (Oct 12, 2012)

We replace a lot of sewer lines and only use two combinations facing each other. About 17 years ago I was running my cable at a bank thru a double clean out ( sanitary tee type). Was sure I was going towards the City when a teller came running out, white as a sheet and screaming. She was on the pot in the restroom when the toilet in the stall next to her literally exploded. 

Back then I was using a big old Marco with auto feed that had a stiff cable. Just felt a little resistance which I thought was the blockage. 

The only thing that would have made this story better is if she was sitting on the one that broke. 

The problem is the guys who put this stuff in are not service plumbers so they don't think about making service easy. 

Same as the new construction guys around here that face a horizontal evap coil towards the eve of the house so that the line set can go straight toward the condenser. Works great for them but how the heck do you get into it if it needs cleaning or there's a problem with the TXV. 

Everyone should have to work service for 5 years and everyone should have to work new construction for 5 years.

Terry Ohlmann / www.ActionAirPlumbing.com


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Also I know that looks bad but I know my place and I do my job! I'm the first one to work everyday and the last one to leave most of the time ! Don't judge just off the pictures


Thats what you were hired to do. Great job on doing your job.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

Everyone does things and see's things different.
Combi wyes and a backflow preventer near the house penetration for me.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Where we are at the combos wouldn't pass inspection . And you are welcome that I do my job !


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

mark kiernan said:


> Everyone does things and see's things different.
> Combi wyes and a backflow preventer near the house penetration for me.


Like this?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Where we are at the combos wouldn't pass inspection....


Are you sure about that? Seems VERY unlikely.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

I asked my boss bc I honestly wasn't sure and he said that wouldn't pass code here !


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Geez, go easy on that exclamation point. I was just asking.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Your boss is wrong. Its way more expensive is what it is.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Sorry bout the exclamation points it's just what I use lol ! And it's more expensive and he said that we are on the UPC and you can't use them !


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> Like this?


I would never do it like that. Just switch the direction of the comby and then there's no part of the pipe that can't be cleaned. This is what I did on monday.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

This from job yhis morning. Try this and you will help out the service plumber in the future who snakes it.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Looks good but like I said code prohibits that in st Louis and in st Charles you have to use a San tee


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> I would never do it like that. Just switch the direction of the comby and then there's no part of the pipe that can't be cleaned. This is what I did on monday.


Maybe it is not very clear in the photo. There is a backwater valve in between the combos. That is why they are faced away from each other.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

gear junkie said:


> I would never do it like that. Just switch the direction of the comby and then there's no part of the pipe that can't be cleaned. This is what I did on monday.


Is this abs ?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> ...and he said that we are on the UPC and you can't use them !


He is mistaken. Your employer either doesn't read the code book or thinks you don't.


*2006 UPC 
Chapter 7
Sanitary Drainage
*
*707.6* Each cleanout shall be installed so that it opens to allow cleaning in the direction of flow of the soil or waste or at right angles thereto and, except except in the case of wye branch and end-of -the-line cleanouts, shall be installed vertically above the flow line of the pipe.

*707.7* Each cleanout extension shall be considered as drainage piping and each ninety (90) degree (1.6 rad) cleanout extension *shall be extended from a wye-type fitting* or other approved fitting of equivalent sweep.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Looks good but like I said code prohibits that in st Louis and in st Charles you have to use a San tee


Not true newbie. I have worked in St Louis for 34 years and hold a masters.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

I will say I myself do not know much about the code book I am learning but slowly . And that's just what my master said I will look it up when I get back to the shop I'm not arguing im right your wrong just trying to figure it out I think it would work better that way myself ! But what do I know I'm a noobie


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> I will say I myself do not know much about the code book I am learning but slowly . And that's just what my master said I will look it up when I get back to the shop I'm not arguing im right your wrong just trying to figure it out I think it would work better that way myself ! But what do I know I'm a noobie


When (not if) you address this with him. Be diplomatic, humble, and do it in private. Remember you place. 

Seek clarification, not to embarrass. Being new, you might have misunderstood.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Everyone is open where we are I am and will he respectful and believe me are other plumbers are looking right now . We are open about things and we discuss things without fighting or bickering it will be a good topic for our weekly meetings !


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> He is mistaken. Your employer either doesn't read the code book or thinks you don't.
> 
> 2006 UPC
> Chapter 7
> ...


Thanks biz. I was waiting for it. I was trying not to get in an argument. Lol


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

I won't argue i don't know enough lol


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Also. You may ask ur master about bedding in pipe to the springline.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Justin if I may answer for him. Bedding is not required in most munies around here if you use sch 40. While I disagree and always rock my pipe it is what it is and not required by code here.


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## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Well we always make sure pipe is secure and well supported


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

They are brand new houses using santees for cleanouts around here. Although they don't meet code, I'm glad they have a cleanout at all, especially considering the number of clogged lines they are getting from the lines not having fall on them, another thing they do that doesn't meet code, but I am happy for.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

The tee is what it commonly used in st louis . It is a approved fitting for the application. We may be able to use the wye but most plumbers dont want spend the money. In st louis county we have a lot of areas that are covered by a program that pays for the sewer repairs and replacements. Plumbers are chosen to bid on the job and the lowest bidder wins. So we generally use the most cost effective approach to the repair.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

justin said:


> Schedule 40 clean out tee?


 It is called a 2 way cleanout tee. It has sweeps going in both directions.


How many of you that use combos leave that small section where no one can clear. the one closest to the house should go towards the street and the next one should go towards the home.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Combos are not that expensive , if the cost of a couple of combo's makes or breaks a job something is wrong.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Spears-P503-040-4-PVC-DWV-Wye-and-45-Elbow-Combo-2-PC


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

really , a mini trackoe for that little bitty ditch, LOL


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Like this?


Yes sir, every time and no excuses.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> It is called a 2 way cleanout tee. It has sweeps going in both directions.
> 
> How many of you that use combos leave that small section where no one can clear. the one closest to the house should go towards the street and the next one should go towards the home.


If we did it the way you suggest Richard it would not pass inspection for the reason that if it ever becomes backed up and Joe schmo turns up to snake it he would bust out the back flow preventer.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

mark kiernan said:


> If we did it the way you suggest Richard it would not pass inspection for the reason that if it ever becomes backed up and Joe schmo turns up to snake it he would bust out the back flow preventer.


But isn't the cap for the BWP in between the C/O caps? Should be easy enough to spot?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> But isn't the cap for the BWP in between the C/O caps? Should be easy enough to spot?


"should be" and "is be" are two different things. :laughing:


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

Just kinda looking for future reference here, ok?
Backwater valves in sewers are starting to become more common
here in North Texas. I have not been (so far) required to install one
yet, and have never done so.
After having said that, it seems to me that the fitting itself should be
installed on the end of the private yard line where the city tap
(or lateral line) connects to the homeowner's sewer. The last place
it needs to go is at the two-way clean out near the foundation of the
home (or entrance to the building).
Can someone tell me what the placement requirements are within the
drainage system?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

BigDave said:


> Just kinda looking for future reference here, ok?
> Backwater valves in sewers are starting to become more common
> here in North Texas. I have not been (so far) required to install one
> yet, and have never done so.
> ...


 Havnt install one in a while... since we have basements here and I rather'd pipe in overhead sewer with ejector pit than having backflow get stuck open and flooded basement.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

BigDave said:


> Just kinda looking for future reference here, ok?
> Backwater valves in sewers are starting to become more common
> here in North Texas. I have not been (so far) required to install one
> yet, and have never done so.
> ...


If placed at the end of the line where it joins the city and handy hack turns out with his trusty harbor freight machine do you think he/she will take a walk down the garden to check for one just incase.
NO.
So they will just proceed to snake out the line from the clean out and bust the thing so may aswell not install one.
If you install a unit that can be extended then you can just lift the flapper out and then run your snake either way.
Some people will not know what they are looking at and just go for it with their sewer snake.
I repaired one at a local burger place last week where Mr handy hack bust it apart with his cutter head and covered up his mistake.
They should always be near the cleanouts for the simple reason you will know its their.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

BigDave said:


> Just kinda looking for future reference here, ok?
> Backwater valves in sewers are starting to become more common
> here in North Texas. I have not been (so far) required to install one
> yet, and have never done so.
> ...


The reason Mark and Biz are installing it that way is to protect the device from damage . A lot of plumbers wouldn't know what they are looking at so the double cleanouts have to be installed to flow away from the backflow device.


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

Plumbing newbie said:


> I won't argue i don't know enough lol


 Another great story newbie. Keep sending them in.If you never asked questions you would never learn anything new.

ps that silly tee trick would not work here.....all clean outs directional ...


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Plumber Master said:


> I suggest back-to-back cleanout installation. Also in GTA if a backwater valve is installed, even outside, Customer will get up to $1250 from City


Intro bro


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumber Master said:


> I suggest back-to-back cleanout installation. Also in GTA if a backwater valve is installed, even outside, Customer will get up to $1250 from City


How would get access to a backwater valve if you buried it outside ... Your in TO .. So I am sure the sewer is at least 4 ft deep


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

steveempire said:


> I have recently done pipe rehabilitation and sewer pipe repair with no dig technology with the help of pipesolutions.com, I am really happy with their services.



Why do I think this one is going to get Ugly? :laughing::laughing:


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

fixitright said:


> Why do I think this one is going to get Ugly? :laughing::laughing:


What should we do?:yes:


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

dhal22 said:


> What should we do?:yes:




Go to FB like everybody else 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> Go to FB like everybody else
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't have a facebook account.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> Don't have a facebook account.


 Me neither, I'm one of the last holdouts also


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I tried and failed at opening a FB account.


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## indyjim (Apr 29, 2017)

I'm not a part of the book of faces. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

Face up to it!


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