# Lead and oakum tools and consumables



## Protech

I'm doing a job in a historic home and I need to remove a lead w/c arm and run it in pvc. Since killertoiletspider isn't going to spill the beans on how to wipe a lead joint I'm going to have to pull the lead out of the hub of the combo in the 4" cast iron stack and install a short piece of 4" cast iron so I can use a mission band to convert to pvc. I don't have a ladle, irons or running rope. I'll also need some lead and oakum. Does anyone have an online supplier? I guess I could go to fergs but I try to avoid them if I can.

Any help is appreciated


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> I'm doing a job in a historic home and I need to remove a lead w/c arm and run it in pvc. Since killertoiletspider isn't going to spill the beans on how to wipe a lead joint I'm going to have to pull the lead out of the hub of the combo in the 4" cast iron stack and install a short piece of 4" cast iron so I can use a mission band to convert to pvc. I don't have a ladle, irons or running rope. I'll also need some lead and oakum. Does anyone have an online supplier? I guess I could go to fergs but I try to avoid them if I can.
> 
> Any help is appreciated


 It should have a brass caulking ferrule under the lead at the junction of the cast iron. Cut the lead off just in front of the ferrule and then melt the lead off the ferrule. Attach to that with your mission. They also make a lead wool that you dont hafta pour. It would be good for your application. If you wanna pour the joint you can use the old lead from the toilet arm.


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## TheMaster

Using the existing brass ferrule thats under the lead is not always possible.....i have found some of them to be too short but some are not. It could be the plumber who originally installed the brass ferrule didn't completely bottom out the ferrule into the cast hub..i dunno. The ones that were long enough or mabybe better said "sticking out far enough" I attached too and didn't cut them out to see if it was longer or it just wasn't made up all the way. Some are also so close up in the floor you dont have room to do anything but cut the entire tee out and start over.......cap the lead off and leave the existing tee if you have room to cut another one in lower on the stack. I did that once because i would have needed to cut into the dinning room wall to replace the existing tee and it was original venetian plaster in a historic home and the owner didn't want a patch......i dont bame him either...it was beautiful.


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## user4

Why wouldn't you just yarn and pour a PVC hub adapter into the cast iron hub and not have to use the mission coupling?


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## TheMaster

Killertoiletspider said:


> Why wouldn't you just yarn and pour a PVC hub adapter into the cast iron hub and not have to use the mission coupling?


 Because some of them were put togehter out in the frontyard when the house was being built. Then they walked it into the house and installed it...then they formed up and poured the bathroom floor with concrete and half your sant. tee/lead arm for the toilet is half buried into the concrete flloor. And yes this is a house on piers off the ground 3'. You cant get to it to pour anything.


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## user4

Break the floor out, problem solved.

And Protech, here is the link you were asking for, or you can swing by my house and borrow my box of lead working tools, I even have a new candle if you want to try wiping a lead joint.


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## TheMaster

Killertoiletspider said:


> Break the floor out, problem solved.
> 
> And Protech, here is the link you were asking for, or you can swing by my house and borrow my box of lead working tools, I even have a new candle if you want to try wiping a lead joint.


You would pay a 10,000 fine for doing that.In Historic homes no can do that if theres another way. If you dont have any money you can choose jail time or pickup trash on the highway for a few months. You can get away with alot here but if you mess with the historical homes or cut an oak tree down in the historical district...get ready to be front page news.
OOOPS the joint runners have been discontinued! Hey make your own:laughing::whistling2:


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## TheMaster

Hey protech you like doing tests and experiments. Have you ever seen sch 40 pvc pipe leaded into a cast iron hub? If you have was is working at the time you removed it.....or did you leave it?


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## user4

TheMaster said:


> OOOPS the joint runners have been discontinued! Hey make your own:laughing::whistling2:


Use plumbers putty.


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## rombo

Why don't you just cold caulk in a small piece of cast, then attach you mission.


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## SewerRatz

Just like Killertoiletspider said why bother with putting a short piece of cast iron in and using a mission coupling. Just use a plastic to C.I. hub adapter and lead in the plastic.


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## breid1903

protech. google lead joint runners. click on www.fwwebb.com they have pasco stuff, also. if you go to www.fwwebb,com. use plumbing parts catalog, search #4577. breid


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## rombo

SewerRatz said:


> Just like Killertoiletspider said why bother with putting a short piece of cast iron in and using a mission coupling. Just use a plastic to C.I. hub adapter and lead in the plastic.



I thought the whole issue was he didn't want to have to pour lead


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## SewerRatz

rombo said:


> I thought the whole issue was he didn't want to have to pour lead


 Well, I thought it was more an issue that he didn't know how to wipe a joint so pouring the joint is the next best thing. Here in Illinois a cold packed joint with lead wool is against the code. But Even if I was to use lead wool I still use the transition fitting.


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## user4

SewerRatz said:


> Well, I thought it was more an issue that he didn't know how to wipe a joint so pouring the joint is the next best thing. Here in Illinois a cold packed joint with lead wool is against the code. But Even if I was to use lead wool I still use the transition fitting.


Lead closet bends can be altered by soldering a new section on if you have the right soldering irons, similar to making a lead pan or a flashing, the only wiped joint is joining the bend onto the brass caulking ferrule. I had to repair a pinhole on my aunt's lead water service two weeks ago, that is why I have a new candle, I had to cut off the ferrule and wipe it back onto the service.


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## TheMaster

The problem with the old lead on closet bends is usually its so thin you cant do anything with it. You guys talk about backflow prevention in IL but then talk about repairing pinholes in lead water services......thats incredible to me.


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## SewerRatz

Killertoiletspider said:


> Lead closet bends can be altered by soldering a new section on if you have the right soldering irons, similar to making a lead pan or a flashing, the only wiped joint is joining the bend onto the brass caulking ferrule. I had to repair a pinhole on my aunt's lead water service two weeks ago, that is why I have a new candle, I had to cut off the ferrule and wipe it back onto the service.


The only time I worked lead was during my plumbing class, the instructor had us make a lead pan, to teach us how to do it. Was more of a fun educational thing since that will probably be the only time I will ever deal with it.

I do recall when I was a kid, my father was doing a sewer repair and hit the lead water service by accident. So he hired a plumber that used a set of ford packs to make the repair. The inspector came out and failed it. He said they do not want a ford pack they wanted a wiped joints. So my dad called every plumber in the phone book, none of them knew how to wipe a joint. So he called the inspector back and explained this to him. The inspector's reply was " Don't you know anyone in the union?" Then he sent out his guys which wiped the joint, and charge the old man 200 bucks. That was like 30 years ago, maybe a bit more.


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## user4

TheMaster said:


> The problem with the old lead on closet bends is usually its so thin you cant do anything with it. You guys talk about backflow prevention in IL but then talk about repairing pinholes in lead water services......thats incredible to me.


You do know where the word "plumber" comes from, right?



SewerRatz said:


> The only time I worked lead was during my plumbing class, the instructor had us make a lead pan, to teach us how to do it. Was more of a fun educational thing since that will probably be the only time I will ever deal with it.


I always made my own pans and flashings up until the day I left the trade, and just last week made a custom flashing for my former employer for a house he is doing with an incredibly steep roof.


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## TheMaster

Well I'll explain that to the plumbing inspector when he asks if I'm using lead free solder........I just say hey "Hey dont you know what plumber means" I'm sure tha'll fly. I'd have better luck witha couple hundred bucks.


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## Plumber Jim

Can't you just pull out the lead and use pvc with a tite seal? thats how i do it here. No need to pour lead that way. 


http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/donuts-o-rings/multi-tite-pipe-gaskets


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## user4

TheMaster said:


> Well I'll explain that to the plumbing inspector when he asks if I'm using lead free solder........I just say hey "Hey dont you know what plumber means" I'm sure tha'll fly. I'd have better luck witha couple hundred bucks.


You'd save a lot of money by asking them to define the Safe Drinking Water Act of 1996 and why it is neccesary, you'll also gain some laughs when they look at you with a blank stare.


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## Protech

How do I keep the plastic from melting when I pour in the molten lead?

(BTW, I really appreciate all the help from you Illinoisans.)

Hey, what about using synthetic rubber grommets in the hub to adapt to my pvc? What say you?




SewerRatz said:


> Just like Killertoiletspider said why bother with putting a short piece of cast iron in and using a mission coupling. Just use a plastic to C.I. hub adapter and lead in the plastic.


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## SewerRatz

Protech said:


> How do I keep the plastic from melting when I pour in the molten lead?
> 
> (BTW, I really appreciate all the help from you Illinoisans.)
> 
> Hey, what about using synthetic rubber grommets in the hub to adapt to my pvc? What say you?


You can use the rubber gasket but I would then use a no hub PVC adapter fitting. The PVC to soil pipe adapter is heaver and can withstand the hot lead.


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## ASUPERTECH

How about going back with DWV copper? Solder right onto the brass farrel make up piece, Sweep, riser, flange?
Either that or push tight fitting,
Clean out hub, insert lubed push tight, may need come along, insert pvc and go.
Let us know what you did and how it turned out.


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## SewerRatz

Protech, fly me down to your area, put me up in a hotel and I will pour that joint for ya. I will bring everything but the LP gas.


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## Cal

Fly me in too . I have that thing handled Quick,quick !!

Oh ,,, I drink Crown Royal so you'll need to supply that also  

Try this ,,, a PVC - No hub adapter , Rubber seal , plenty of grease , a 3 -5lb mini sledge and a piece of 2 x 4 .

Remove everything out of the hub ,, make SURE it is secure ,,, then Smack that pvc in there !!

Please let us know how you finally decide to do this project !!!


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## TheMaster

Much talk about a simple job,unless its installed in a concrete floor of the bath! Sounds like fear of the unkown to me.


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## Protech

I've decided to go the grommet rout. I'm still going to pick up the lead tools though. What about a wiping candle? Where do I get one?

I have befor pictures and I’ll take some after shots as well for ya.


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## user4

Protech said:


> I've decided to go the grommet rout. I'm still going to pick up the lead tools though. What about a wiping candle? Where do I get one?
> 
> I have befor pictures and I’ll take some after shots as well for ya.


You don't need a candle for yarning and pouring lead joints, candle wax is used for wiping lead joints, usually on water services, a process that joins the lead to a caulking ferule.


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## TheMaster

Save the arm and melt it down for free lead. I posted a pic a few weeks ago of a lead lavatory arm/vent. I melted that down to pour cast iron clost flanges with. Get the old lead molten and then sir it slowly and all the impurities will float to the top....while its still molten...scrape all the impurities off the top and let it cool. perfect clean ignots when your finished


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## TheMaster

Killertoiletspider said:


> You don't need a candle for yarning and pouring lead joints, candle wax is used for wiping lead joints, usually on water services, a process that joins the lead to a caulking ferule.


 I thought the candle was so you could see while working in the dark under the house:laughing: I would dare to say there not one piece of lead water pipe still in use in central florida. I would bet money on that even.


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## Protech

The arm has already been changed to pvc by a GC who thought he would play plumber. He used a coupling similar to a no hub and hooked onto a 3" long piece of 4" lead. He wrapped the hub of a 3"x2" pvc wye with electrical tape and clamped the other side on the coupling onto it. About a year later the HO moves in and shortly after notices water running down the first floor wall in the dining room.

So, I've got to rebuild the sanitary under the toilet. I’d post pics but wifey left to Ocala with the camera. I'll post some pics when she gets back tonight. He also has the shower draining into 1.5" pvc that ties into the WC arm about a foot from the toilet flange (the wye I was talking about) with no vent:whistling2:



TheMaster said:


> Save the arm and melt it down for free lead. I posted a pic a few weeks ago of a lead lavatory arm/vent. I melted that down to pour cast iron clost flanges with. Get the old lead molten and then sir it slowly and all the impurities will float to the top....while its still molten...scrape all the impurities off the top and let it cool. perfect clean ignots when your finished


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## Protech

I realize that killer. I was just thinking that I should pickup the tools needed to work with lead. Every now and again I run into 100 year old houses that have lead drains with wiped joints. I figure I'll learn how to wipe, so that's why I need to get a candle.

BTW, would you mind sharing how it's done? I realize that it's hard to describe how to do something like that (like brazing steel and cast iron) but if you would get it a shot I’d be grateful.



Killertoiletspider said:


> You don't need a candle for yarning and pouring lead joints, candle wax is used for wiping lead joints, usually on water services, a process that joins the lead to a caulking ferule.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> The arm has already been changed to pvc by a GC who thought he would play plumber. He used a coupling similar to a no hub and hooked onto a 3" long piece of 4" lead. He wrapped the hub of a 3"x2" pvc wye with electrical tape and clamped the other side on the coupling onto it. About a year later the HO moves in and shortly after notices water running down the first floor wall in the dining room.
> 
> So, I've got to rebuild the sanitary under the toilet. I’d post pics but wifey left to Ocala with the camera. I'll post some pics when she gets back tonight. He also has the shower draining into 1.5" pvc that ties into the WC arm about a foot from the toilet flange (the wye I was talking about) with no vent:whistling2:


 You have a mess is what you have. Are you going to vent it or ask for an exception:laughing:. It worked for 70 years like it was until the lead leaked.


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## UnclogNH

SewerRatz said:


> The only time I worked lead was during my plumbing class, the instructor had us make a lead pan, to teach us how to do it. Was more of a fun educational thing since that will probably be the only time I will ever deal with it.
> quote]
> 
> That was that last time I worked with lead was In school. Never touched it again. just removed.


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## Protech

I'm leaving it the way it is until the customer says otherwise. I told them about it, they didn't care. It's their house and I'm not fixing it if they aint paying.



TheMaster said:


> You have a mess is what you have. Are you going to vent it or ask for an exception:laughing:. It worked for 70 years like it was until the lead leaked.


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## TheMaster

Oh well you know thats right. With no money its all jibber jabber.:laughing:


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## user4

Protech said:


> I realize that killer. I was just thinking that I should pickup the tools needed to work with lead. Every now and again I run into 100 year old houses that have lead drains with wiped joints. I figure I'll learn how to wipe, so that's why I need to get a candle.
> 
> BTW, would you mind sharing how it's done? I realize that it's hard to describe how to do something like that (like brazing steel and cast iron) but if you would get it a shot I’d be grateful.


I'll give it a shot, but I doubt you could even find the tools needed to wipe with anymore. You start out with your lead service and a caulking ferule, using your drift plug (a wooden tool that looks like an old time childrens toy top) and tap it into the lead service with the heel of your hand to form a crude flare, the you push your ferule into the lead service and using a wood mallet you tap around the flare to snug the lead to the ferule. Now you take your shave hook and shave away a light layer of lead two inches from the end all the way around the pipe, so that you have a nice shiny clean lead surface. Directly below that nice shiny surface you rub your candle on the pipe till you have a nice layer of wax all the around the pipe, this is to keep excess lead from sticking and creating a poor looking joint. Now you put your wiping cloth underneath where you are making your joint in a cup like fashion and using a wiping ladle (a much smaller version of a regular ladle) and you pour your wiping lead (which is not the same as caulking lead, wiping lead is 85% lead and 15% tin) into the cupped cloth and when the lead consistency is right you wipe the lead around the joint with your cloth. You're going to repeat this a minimum of four times until you have a nice even ball of lead on the joint that is about a half inch thick. When it cools you can turn the water on. 

Lead drain lines are soldered not wiped for the most part, unless it is a transition from lead to galvanized, those have a wiped caulking ferule like a water service.

I hope that makes sense, it would be easier to show than tell you though.


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## uaplumber

Actually, I think I could bull my way through it based on your description. It all makes alot of sense. Thanks KTS.


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## TheMaster

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/leadlavatorydrain002.jpg
I just went out and took this pic under this text.....I turned the pipe you see above into the ignots of lead. hey check that little laddle out! and thats my grandfathers old spud wrench laying next to it. remember to recycle!!!!:laughing:

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/oldtools001.jpg


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## ILPlumber

Last time I wiped all the supply house had were 60/40 bars. They worked ok.

Lav drains are a common place to have to wipe a joint. Everywhere else we remove the lead back to a ci hub.


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## Proud Plumber

Some of us Florida plumbers have old crushed lead roof boots laying around our shops can they be melted down and used for pouring joints? I poured a couple of joints in school years ... and years ago. I thought I might give it a shot in the shop. You never know... just one more tool in the tool box.

Also, I had an uncle that passed away some years ago from cancer. They attributed his death to lead in the water mains? Are lead services dangerous or do they cause health problems?


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## user4

Proud Plumber said:


> Some of us Florida plumbers have old crushed lead roof boots laying around our shops can they be melted down and used for pouring joints? I poured a couple of joints in school years ... and years ago. I thought I might give it a shot in the shop. You never know... just one more tool in the tool box.
> 
> Also, I had an uncle that passed away some years ago from cancer. They attributed his death to lead in the water mains? Are lead services dangerous or do they cause health problems?


There are tens of thousands of lead water services in Chicago, and lead related health problems number in the double digits, almost all of them are related to lead based paint.


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## GREENPLUM

Ask a Roman what they think about lead water pipes


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## SewerRatz

GREENPLUM said:


> Ask a Roman what they think about lead water pipes


 It was more in the lines of lead used on their bowls and plates, and with the acidic foods it leached into their food. It has been proven that the lead water services in the Chicago land area are not leaching any lead into the water.


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## GREENPLUM

Lead water lines, that just sounds wrong to me. Thx for the history lesson teach


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## TheMaster

Next they will try to convince us they have holy water up there and that why lead is not a problem greenplumb.:whistling2:Selective thinking is what that is. Oh cant happen here oh it doesn't happen here.....ok right. Like I said they are special.


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## GREENPLUM

Dont worry Mr Inspector this lead is Special and the water is from Chicago:laughing:


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## user4

TheMaster said:


> Next they will try to convince us they have holy water up there and that why lead is not a problem greenplumb.:whistling2:Selective thinking is what that is. Oh cant happen here oh it doesn't happen here.....ok right. Like I said they are special.


We are, we don't buy into if you can't glue we can't do it theory of plumbing installations.


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## ILPlumber

TheMaster said:


> Next they will try to convince us they have holy water up there and that why lead is not a problem greenplumb.:whistling2:Selective thinking is what that is. Oh cant happen here oh it doesn't happen here.....ok right. Like I said they are special.


Usually you make some sense.. Congrats on a post that makes none.


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## TheMaster

ILPlumber said:


> Usually you make some sense.. Congrats on a post that makes none.


 It was in good fun. Text can be so dry:laughing: IL you have me convinced your special:blink::laughing:


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## Redwood

Protech,
Have a look see at this link starting at about Page 37...
Google on line books Standard practical plumbing By Robert Macy Starbuck


It pretty well covers the subject...
I love reading them old books...:thumbup:


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## GREENPLUM

Killertoiletspider said:


> We are, we don't buy into if you can't glue we can't do it theory of plumbing installations.


 I also dont buy into that theory. :thumbup:


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## user4

GREENPLUM said:


> I also dont buy into that theory. :thumbup:


From bad to worse, splendid.


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## GREENPLUM

Killertoiletspider said:


> From bad to worse, splendid.


I respect your opinion, but its 100% Debatable.


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## Protech

Ok so I read "standard practical plumbing" on wiping(thanks red). It looks like I need to get 2 lead flashings to try and join. I'll need some lead and some tin to melt down to make the solder. What else do I need?


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## SewerRatz

I have a roll of XXS 3/4" lead pipe sitten around. I have to go digging in the garage for it, but when I do find it i let you have it.


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## Protech

Here are the pics as promised.


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## Protech

O well, guess I couldn't finish the job. That's ok, I can think of a better way to spend the rest of my Saturday...:thumbup:


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## TheMaster

Like I said you have a mess. looks like the bottom of the cast iron hub is sitting on the plaster. Looks like theres No brass ferrule sticking out at all. I would try to get that hub cleaned out and use a rubber bushing seal. maybe find a 4x4x1.5" side inlet 1/4 bend. Whatever you do make sure you glue your closet flange insde the pipe and not over it....You could always just cut the entire tee out
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/3x2sideinlet90.jpg


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## TheMaster

That looks like a 2x6 ceiling...man thats going to be tight just to get anything in there and not be above the floor so you can get the flange on. Or is it just the pic and you have plenty of room?.....Could you some how route a vent to under the vanity for the shower and use an cheater vent?


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## gear junkie

Not sure about placing a toilet in the shower without something underneath to prevent scratches.


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## Protech

what tee?



TheMaster said:


> Like I said you have a mess. looks like the bottom of the cast iron hub is sitting on the plaster. Looks like theres No brass ferrule sticking out at all. I would try to get that hub cleaned out and use a rubber bushing seal. maybe find a 4x4x1.5" side inlet 1/4 bend. Whatever you do make sure you glue your closet flange insde the pipe and not over it....You could always just cut the entire tee out
> http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/3x2sideinlet90.jpg


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## Protech

Not enough verticle space. I'm going to do it like the last guy minus the mungo joint. 4x2 wye then 3" st 90 with the spigoot end in the flange.



TheMaster said:


> Like I said you have a mess. looks like the bottom of the cast iron hub is sitting on the plaster. Looks like theres No brass ferrule sticking out at all. I would try to get that hub cleaned out and use a rubber bushing seal. maybe find a 4x4x1.5" side inlet 1/4 bend. Whatever you do make sure you glue your closet flange insde the pipe and not over it....You could always just cut the entire tee out
> http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/3x2sideinlet90.jpg


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## nhmaster3015

I would.... pull the spud from the old C.I. tee. Lead in a PVC adaptor. Run to a 3 x 2 side inlet 90 under the W/C and go from there. You don't need anything too particulary fancy to lead it in. The joint runner may be the most difficult but you can make a quick one from a piece of KaoWool blanket that you can get at the supply house. As for caulking irons, they can be made by grinding a regular cold chisel to the proper shape.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> what tee?


 The castiron sant tee or combo that has the lead into it. Cut that entire fitting out.:laughing: You would hafta tear the house up to do it! I'm just sayin thats an option.


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## Associated Plum

SewerRatz said:


> It was more in the lines of lead used on their bowls and plates, and with the acidic foods it leached into their food. It has been proven that the lead water services in the Chicago land area are not leaching any lead into the water.


 
Lead water lines will form a film on the inside of the pipe to form a barrier between the lead and water.

You can also run the water for a short time before drinking it, similar to what you would do to eleviate the taste that you would have drinking from a water hose of some "plastics"


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## Associated Plum

Usually there is not enough space to replace a lead closet bend with PVC or at least in our area there is not. Normally there is only a couple of inches of less between the top of the lead and the floor and you are lucky if the lead has not been flattend to fit the space.

In a situation like this if we can't install no-hub cast iron (smaller than PVC) we will remove and install a tee lower in the line for the new piping.

Also if there is a side inlet @ the water closet for a drain and there is no vent on it, we will either bring it up to code or walk.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Not enough verticle space. I'm going to do it like the last guy minus the mungo joint. 4x2 wye then 3" st 90 with the spigoot end in the flange.


here is the difference in a 3"st 90 and a 3x4 closet ell. slap a makeup piece into the 4"portion and the flange glues inside of that.

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/protechssolution001.jpg
Ok now if you still think that will not work ...here is a 4x3 st 90. The 4" side is pipe size and the flange glues inside of it....it looks long but it can be cut off and then the flange glues inside of it. Both ways would make flange replacement in the future easy if needed and would give a larger throat(more air) for the toilet to flush into. Do you have enough room to add a wye in the 1.5" shower drain to add a vent under the vanity? Not trying to tell you what to do...just exploring options....I know you know your sheit.
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/protechssolution002.jpg
I've even trimmed the lenght off the flange about 3/4" or so to get the clearence and allow it go on down. Also mabe suggest adding ceramic tile to the bath and that will raiese the floor another 1" or so. Just options.....please dont throw stuff at me!!!!:laughing:


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## TheMaster

I know its maybe not legal but how about a 4" trap 90? They are tight bends! That way it could all be 4" and the flange could still go inside of the st portion of it and not over it.


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## TheMaster

Associated Plum said:


> Lead water lines will form a film on the inside of the pipe to form a barrier between the lead and water.
> 
> You can also run the water for a short time before drinking it, similar to what you would do to eleviate the taste that you would have drinking from a water hose of some "plastics"


 We are talkin main city lines and they add additives to make the coating inside the lead such as calcium orthophospahte.


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## user4

Protech said:


> Ok so I read "standard practical plumbing" on wiping(thanks red). It looks like I need to get 2 lead flashings to try and join. I'll need some lead and some tin to melt down to make the solder. What else do I need?



The joints on sheet lead are soldered, not wiped.


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## Protech

What's the difference?


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## breid1903

*wiped*

are for drains i believe. that's the only place i've ever seen it. always used a big flat iron on sheets. what we called tin, although it was not. a very long time ago, so i maybe a little fuzzy here. breid


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## user4

Protech said:


> What's the difference?


Soldered, as in using a soldering iron and a roll of 50/50 solder, wiping is using a wiping cloth to form molten lead into a joint.


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## Protech

When wiping, do you heat the work piece as you apply the molten lead? Is it pure lead or a mixture of lead and tin?


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## Protech

Messin with lead sheet:


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## ILPlumber

Protech said:


> When wiping, do you heat the work piece as you apply the molten lead? Is it pure lead or a mixture of lead and tin?


You heat the workpiece as you apply lead bar. Not molten lead. Melt the bar into the work and wipe it smooth. 

KTS suggested 85/15 bar
I have used it. Last time I used 60/40 bar it worked well.

I found a video the other day on it but, didn't post. I'll refind it. The guy does kind of a crappy job but, you will get the idea of how it's done.


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## ILPlumber

http://revver.com/video/949542/bath-sink-wipe-lead-trap-in/


I could not figure out how to embed this video.

If any of you guys can, I would appreciate it.

Also, pm me with how you were able to do it. Thanks


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## user4

ILPlumber said:


> http://revver.com/video/949542/bath-sink-wipe-lead-trap-in/
> 
> 
> I could not figure out how to embed this video.
> 
> If any of you guys can, I would appreciate it.
> 
> Also, pm me with how you were able to do it. Thanks


You can't embed that unless Nathan turns on the ability to use HTML code, and he isn't going to do that.

That video is not a wiped joint, that is a solder bushing, we remove those and install a trap adapter as opposed to re-using the solder bushing, it is faster to cape out the bushing than it is to do what the video shows. When you wipe a joint on a lead you don't heat the lead pipe, all the heat comes from the molten wiping lead you are using to make the joint, which is worked by hand using a wiping cloth.

I would really have to show you, it is obvious I lack the skills to describe in type.


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## Protech

Great vid ILplumber. Many thanks man. I just don't see that kind of thing here.


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## SewerRatz

Killertoiletspider said:


> You can't embed that unless Nathan turns on the ability to use HTML code, and he isn't going to do that.
> 
> That video is not a wiped joint, that is a solder bushing, we remove those and install a trap adapter as opposed to re-using the solder bushing, *it is faster to cape out the bushing *than it is to do what the video shows. When you wipe a joint on a lead you don't heat the lead pipe, all the heat comes from the molten wiping lead you are using to make the joint, which is worked by hand using a wiping cloth.
> 
> I would really have to show you, it is obvious I lack the skills to describe in type.


Careful you will get the caping chisel haters rilled up again.


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## ILPlumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> You can't embed that unless Nathan turns on the ability to use HTML code, and he isn't going to do that.
> 
> That video is not a wiped joint, that is a solder bushing, we remove those and install a trap adapter as opposed to re-using the solder bushing, it is faster to cape out the bushing than it is to do what the video shows. When you wipe a joint on a lead you don't heat the lead pipe, all the heat comes from the molten wiping lead you are using to make the joint, which is worked by hand using a wiping cloth.
> 
> I would really have to show you, it is obvious I lack the skills to describe in type.


 
Hmm. There is no bushing. That is just a trap arm wiped to the lead pipe.

Maybe I am mis-interpretting something.


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## TheMaster

SewerRatz said:


> Careful you will get the caping chisel haters rilled up again.


If you go back and watch the video at the point where he slides the escutcheon back against the wall/lead joint you can clearly see the entire pipe move. If you started beating on that with a chisel you would destroy that pipe. I personally would have used more flux than he did in that process and a softer flame. I've also melted down a roll of solder and made my own solder stick as nobody carries that in stick form around here that I'm aware of. I posted a pic of a lead lav drain a few weeks ago and then recently a pic of the ignots i melted it down into.
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/leadlavatorydrain002.jpg
After I melted it all down there was nothing left but the short section of 1.25" brass tube.


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