# Slab leak detection



## Hillside

Been slammed with slab leaks lately, actually did 15 in the month of June, my current setup is a sr20 a brick a fisher xlt30 leak detector, and I'm still not 100% sure of myself sometimes, almost all are inside slab, sometimes I can't get right on top of then due to cabinets or some on carpet, anyone know of a better tracing setup? I know amer leak has the rd4000 setups and their own brand detectors that look exactly like goldak, I stopped using them because if I wasn't there they would try and sell the job, I'm getting more and more slammed with them and need a quicker way then I'm currently doing now, I'm doing re-routes 99% of the time not spot repairs, is the metrotech units that much better?


----------



## Master Mark

you are talking way over my head because we dont have the time to do the leak dectection ourselves but I would love to learn it..

we use a couple of companies that only do leak detection and nothing else....for about 300 bucks.

what are you chargeing for a slab leak repair in california?? 
My best guess would be 1900... 

I would rather re-pipe a place overhead vs tearing the place up to repair one leak... the last house we did the guy was on his 6th slab repair and we could not talk him into doing the re-pipe... claimed he was selling the home in the spring.....:blink:



I have heard in California now that the water levels are dropping so low that the water is much much more aggressive to the copper pipes now more than ever.. that might be the reason you are so slammed with them.


----------



## ToUtahNow

ADL uses the Goldak locators which is what I learned on. My favorite locator of all time was my Metrotech (Vivax-Metrotech) HL4000. My understanding is the HL5000 is even better. The key to a good locate is the mics.You can spend over a grand on a municipal ground mic.

Mark


----------



## The bear

When you are leak locating do use air,nitrogen, or tracer gas?


----------



## Gargalaxy

Oxygen and nitrogen here.


----------



## LAsercut

So i too am SLAMMED with slab leaks myself, im also re routing the line(s) 99% of the time. I actually consider myself a subject matter expert on slab leaks. My last shpp and my current shop have me exclusively doing all slab leaks that come in so i have a ton of experience with this subject. And as far as the equipment goes , i was brought up using the goldak model 777 leak detector and a brick and scout to energize the lines to help find manifolds, as well as my fish tape. And on difficult leaks or weird situations id also use my air bottle and charge the line to help. But a far as the energizing of the lines go, i dont think theres a better setup then the brick and a scout (this is for slab leaks, not line tracing outside or anything). And then as far a the actual leak detector goes, i USED to think the goldak was the ****....until my new shop got a sewerin stethphon 04 on my recommendation and let me tell you...... it BLOWS THE GOLDAK AND METROTECH equipment out of the water, the mic IS AMAZING compared to any other equipment ive ever used, it also has some really neat functions that help you identify and pin point the leak, ive gotten really good with it. And that serup isnt to bad price wise for the quality of what you get, hands down i think it's the best slab leak detection you can get on the market, and thats for slab leaks only im not talking outdoor leaks or ground leaks or asphalt leaks, cuz once you get into that stuff theres corrrlators and some other sewerin products that are amazing for that stuff like the sewerin aquaphon and what not. But like i said i think hands down the sewerin equipment if the best on the market. **** even the goldak techs use the sewerin products now......i couldn't be happier with it. And also im gonma be going out on my own in abiut 6 months and im currently saving up for a stetephon 04 kit for myself.


----------



## DesertOkie

Plus one for Sewerin. I have and use the XLT 30 but the aqua phone 100 kit is bad azz. I will check out the model LA bragged about. sewerin is top notch. I use a Navitrack II for locate with a brick, I want a 10w transmitter.


----------



## mytxplumber

I have a lot of slab leak equipment and locate and repair a bunch of leaks in big houses where you don't really want to miss. I have geophones, fishers, gen-ears, Metrotech hl5000, Sewerin a100, SewerinStethophon 04 and some others to. All the newer locators use some form of DSA dual segment analysis. If you are serious about leak detection I would spend the money on good equipment. The reason I have all this equipment is I have done leak locating for a lot of years. The other thing that will help you is to get with guys that do this alot and get training where you can. The new equipment does have a different learning curve than the older equipment. I would not spend money on fisher, gen ear, or goldak I would go with the newer equipment it is far superior. On a side note I am looking for a goldak 777 for my collection or museum of locators mine disappeared somewhere. I have stuff for the 40's and 50's to present and have used it all years back. If you have questions give me a call.


----------



## LAsercut

Damn electronic equipment from the 40s and 50s??? Id like to see pics of that. If you dont mind that's super cool!


----------



## mytxplumber

*Slab Leak detection*

Here is a Detectron 505 from the 50's check out the tubes it has a B cell battery for power at 67.5 volts and yes they made B cell batteries years ago.


----------



## LAsercut

Wow that's cool man!!! Have you ever got a chance to try to use it just for kicks????


----------



## mytxplumber

All the old stuff works just not as good as the newer stuff. On the 505 you have to take a bunch of 9 volt batteries and put them together to get the voltage you need to run it. The best locating tool is still a plumber that knows what he is doing with his tools and what to look for. I am glad we have better tooling when you are in a 5000 sqr ft house or bigger listening through a wood floor on slab. The old stuff just could not cut it through wood very well.


----------



## LAsercut

That's awesome! Very cool and yes i agree ,there's no substitute for a plumbers knowledge......


----------



## thumper

I use the Fisher XLT30 leak detector along with the Rigid ST33Q line locator and SR20 locator. I always recommend rerouting vs digging up and repairing.

Once you find the manifold how do you determine which run is the one thats leaking? i used to chop all the pipes and see which one didn't hold water. I recently came up with the idea of heating up the lines while the water is off with my torch. I then turn on the water very slowly and use my infrared temp gun to check the pipes temp. The supply line and the line thats leaking will cool down more then the lines holding water. Then its a 50/50 choice. If you can turn on the water slow enough you can trace the temp drop. 
Then cut cap and reroute! 

I normally reroute with copper, but the last job I did I used propex. So easy to pipe, just like an electrician!


----------



## LAsercut

Whoa! That's alot of unneeded work! Lol but everyone is different, and i use the leak detector!! A good operator can determine which line it is usually, matter of a fact on tuesday i did a reroute on a cold line and had a cold manifold with 1-one inch feed line, 1-three quarter line and 1- half inch line and without cutting anything i just used my sewerin stepothone 04 to determine which line it was, then went to the other fixtures in the house and listened at the angle stops and determined it was loudest at the kitchen and went back to the original manifold and llistened once more ajd determined it was the half inch line, then cut ajd capped the line turned the water bavk on and listened once more for leaks, and there was no more leak, i then put my fishtape in the open half inch line and slammed it up and down to make noise to determine/confirm where its running and then bang started my reroute to the kitchen, i also used pex uponor to do the reroute, which is usually the material i reroute in, if not that its always type l copper.


----------



## Tommy plumber

thumper said:


> I use the Fisher XLT30 leak detector along with the Rigid ST33Q line locator and SR20 locator. I always recommend rerouting vs digging up and repairing.
> 
> Once you find the manifold how do you determine which run is the one thats leaking? i used to chop all the pipes and see which one didn't hold water. I recently came up with the idea of heating up the lines while the water is off with my torch. I then turn on the water very slowly and use my infrared temp gun to check the pipes temp. The supply line and the line thats leaking will cool down more then the lines holding water. Then its a 50/50 choice. If you can turn on the water slow enough you can trace the temp drop.
> Then cut cap and reroute!
> 
> I normally reroute with copper, but the last job I did I used propex. So easy to pipe, just like an electrician!


 








Another plumber told me that he turns off the water, goes to the copper manifold and starts to heat up the solder joints. Whichever joint that has the solder turning to liquid, he then knows which pipe is leaking under the slab.


----------



## thumper

LAsercut said:


> Whoa! That's alot of unneeded work! Lol but everyone is different, and i use the leak detector!! A good operator can determine which line it is usually, matter of a fact on tuesday i did a reroute on a cold line and had a cold manifold with 1-one inch feed line, 1-three quarter line and 1- half inch line and without cutting anything i just used my sewerin stepothone 04 to determine which line it was, then went to the other fixtures in the house and listened at the angle stops and determined it was loudest at the kitchen and went back to the original manifold and llistened once more ajd determined it was the half inch line, then cut ajd capped the line turned the water bavk on and listened once more for leaks, and there was no more leak, i then put my fishtape in the open half inch line and slammed it up and down to make noise to determine/confirm where its running and then bang started my reroute to the kitchen, i also used pex uponor to do the reroute, which is usually the material i reroute in, if not that its always type l copper.


I use the torch method when there are multiple lines of the same size. I can't tell with the Fisher which leg is leaking. I your case of 3 different sizes you know already that the 1" is the feed, the 3/4" is for the bathroom and odd man out must be for the kitchen. I also listen at he angle valves to locate the line thats leaking.

I had no one to teach me so I appreciate different ideas, tips and tricks from everyone.


----------



## LAsercut

This was in a quadplex...with 2 bathrooms upstairs and 2 laundrys each on a different location with 3 hosebibs, and i could hear the leak at one of the hosebib and one of the laundrys substantially so actually the half inch line coulda been for a number of things. But anyhow....... i used to use the goldak model 777 and could usually tell which line in the manifold it was leakking as well, but with my newer sewerin equipment you can really tell which line it is pretty easy, that equipment is that good IMO. And ive also used the torch method in the past of heating the line with torch and using my flir gun to see the temp change, my old master showed me the torch method where he would heat it up and whatever line has solder start to flow is usually the line leaking, but i havent done that in years and it only works on smaller manifolds cause the 'excess 'water sometimes prevents it from working at all from what ive seen. But all are good ideas and all work in different situations and i also appreciate different tips and tricks....that's why im on this forum to begin with. Anyone else have any? 


Im not familiar with your exact fisher model, does it have a meter or digital readout that is a direct correlation between noise and some sort of either a numerical readout or meter ? Cause with me sewerin it has a digital readout, so it makes identifying which line real easy, and on the goldak it had a meter, and id go back and forth seeing which line has the highest reading in the manifold. And then cut cap and test.


Hillside you look into the sewerin stuff yet??


----------



## Hillside

I was bidding on one on eBay and blew it and missed it.... Sold for a grand, I talked to a pool leak detection guy and he also said it was the $hi7 
Nowhere that I know of sells them around here do they?? I'd like to check one out, I think I saw them at the long beach show and got a card, gotta check, other plumbers keep asking if I'll do there leak detection but I'm just not confident enough that I can be spot on and charge them for it and leave without a call back or be wrong, I'm willing to spend the money if it's that bomb


----------



## Tommy plumber

LAsercut;782066
[B said:


> *i also appreciate different tips and tricks....that's why im on this forum to begin with. Anyone else have any?
> *[/B]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes I've found a slab leak by process of elimination. Having done new construction plumbing which includes of course looping water lines, helps in figuring out which line is leaking.
> 
> On this job, there were just {2} fixtures without hot water; a lav faucet and a shower in the master bath. So to make the repair, I ran a 1/2" hot line from the lav on the right side of the tub, and connected it to the lav on the left and then fed the shower. That was a nice little job.


----------



## LAsercut

Hillside said:


> I was bidding on one on eBay and blew it and missed it.... Sold for a grand, I talked to a pool leak detection guy and he also said it was the $hi7
> Nowhere that I know of sells them around here do they?? I'd like to check one out, I think I saw them at the long beach show and got a card, gotta check, other plumbers keep asking if I'll do there leak detection but I'm just not confident enough that I can be spot on and charge them for it and leave without a call back or be wrong, I'm willing to spend the money if it's that bomb


Yeah.contact goldak, they are a dealer of sewerin, even their techs that go out into the field use it ,over their goldak stuff. And yeah if you've got the demand l, you gotta get it, your life will be so much easier and you'll be spot on..... just ask the goldak guys what they think....:thumbup:


----------



## LAsercut

Yeah ive done pretty much the same thing befote, its always nice when you can "backfeed"the system and save the customer a lot of drywall repair and labor cost I've also fished 3/8 pex through half inch copper pipe as well as half inch PEX through three quarter copper pipe, WHEN it was applicable ie; volume wasnt alot or whatever the case, doing that is really handy for island sinks.........


----------



## Cajunhiker

Ever have a home WITHOUT a single manifold?

I was lucky enough to get a customer with a 3 bedroom ranch style house, 2 full bath (back to back), kitchen, and laundry room with water heater in a shed separated from the house.

Opened the walls under/behind every fixture. No manifolds. My guess is Tees were used under the slab of this home built in the early 1960s. The pipes stubbed out of the slab appeared to be copper type L hard pipe. 

Could hear leak under slab in hall bath. Meter was spinning like crazy. Was able to determine it was the cold water line. 

Ended up digging up main line outside leading to the house, punching through brick, up interior wall to attic, and dropping branch lines to each fixture. PITA.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Cajunhiker said:


> Ever have a home WITHOUT a single manifold?
> 
> I was lucky enough to get a customer with a 3 bedroom ranch style house, 2 full bath (back to back), kitchen, and laundry room with water heater in a shed separated from the house.
> 
> Opened the walls under/behind every fixture. No manifolds. My guess is Tees were used under the slab of this home built in the early 1960s. The pipes stubbed out of the slab appeared to be copper type L hard pipe.
> 
> Could hear leak under slab in hall bath. Meter was spinning like crazy. Was able to determine it was the cold water line.
> 
> Ended up digging up main line outside leading to the house, punching through brick, up interior wall to attic, and dropping branch lines to each fixture. PITA.












You ended up doing a re-pipe instead of a spot repair.


----------



## Hillside

Have ran into that a few times here, ridgid type L in ground, tracing it out and it was just too sharp of turns to be soft, traced out and signal split in two in hallway, T's in ground for sure, opened up kitchen 1/2" H & C Coming straight up outta slab, no manifolds to be found, ended up with a spot repair in kitchen, told them to get ready for a attic repipe


----------



## LAsercut

Yeah i run into that semi often actually, theres a few neighborhoodz around my service area like that,we call it a T and ELL system. And now adays if im around those areas or in a old home and its questonable if the system is a manifold system or a t and l system, ill open a couple really small holes under some fixtures to check for manifolds or what not. man it threw me for a loop when i was a young helper lol, and yeah for that situation its either a spot repair or a re pipe or epoxy line the system, which i do NOT like,but its the bosses call sometimes........


----------



## petetheplumber

Anyone have experience with Subsureface Leak Detection's model LD-12? The kit goes for around $3500. How do they compare with Goldak and Swerin. I am thinking about including this service and want the best. I screwed up before by buying a Gen-Ear. Don't want to make another mistake.


----------



## Tommy plumber

petetheplumber said:


> Anyone have experience with Subsureface Leak Detection's model LD-12? The kit goes for around $3500. How do they compare with Goldak and Swerin. I am thinking about including this service and want the best. I screwed up before by buying a Gen-Ear. Don't want to make another mistake.














What was the problem with the Gen Ear?


----------



## petetheplumber

Never could pin point a leak with it, so far it's been an embarrassment and a big waste of time.


----------



## Tommy plumber

petetheplumber said:


> Never could pin point a leak with it, so far it's been an embarrassment and a big waste of time.














A fellow plumber/friend told me of the time he had a leak search subbed out to a slab leak company. When my friend returned to open the slab, there were about {5} leaks marked on the lady's masterbath floor! He asked her why were there {5} x's marked on the floor. She said the slab leak company couldn't pinpoint the leak; the technician heard the noise equally strong in all the locations. So my friend asked the lady where he should start opening the floor. She shrugged her shoulders. He told me that on the 3rd hole he found the leak. When he told me the story, {over lunch on this Tuesday}, I thought the leak search guy was new to the game. But after speaking with you, now I'm thinking maybe the leak search guy just had lousy equipment. 

Of course leak detection plumbers know that a small hole should be drilled into the slab {between tiles into the grout joint} to check the sound that way or to see which hole gets the drill bit wet. A long 1/4" masonry bit is typically used. So an experienced leak search plumber would not have to open holes randomly, but my friend doesn't do leak searches, he always subs them out. So when he showed up and saw {5} X's on the floor, he just said eeny, meeny, miney, moe...and picked one.....LOL.

In fact, I'm purchasing the equipment so not only I can do it for myself, but my friend will sub them to me once I get up and running.


----------



## Will

Is there any thermal imaging cameras y'all recomend?


----------



## Gargalaxy

Will said:


> Is there any thermal imaging cameras y'all recomend?


I use Flir TG165, it's small but work fine to me.


----------



## Will

How much did the Flir TG165 set you back and will it work on cold lines as well as hot?


----------



## Tommy plumber

So the leak detection equipment has arrived. Now to practice so I gain familiarity with the equipment. 

One time a customer called and asked point blank if we had our own leak detection equipment. When he was told no, he said thanks, bye. 

Also, some plumbers have sub-contracted the leak search out to a slab leak outfit only to never hear back from the customer.


----------



## Tommy plumber

So I'm new to the electronic leak detection game. Did a locate for a gentleman. Marked the floor in his master bath and left. He opened the floor and not only was there no leak there, but there were not any pipes there.....yikes! Bad news. He calls me up and I schedule a time to go over. Anyway, long story short, I eventually found the leak, but it was about 8' away. 

I called Alex {Gargalaxy on here} for advice. Thank you again Alex. His advice, take a break and go at it again fresh. Don't get discouraged. 

After a while, I was very un-sure of myself. So I drilled a few small holes in between the tiles through the grout line. On like the 3rd or 4th hole, water comes bubbling up out of the floor. I was still un-sure. I thought, "Oh no, I bet I drilled through a good copper line." So I turn off the water and start opening the slab. Eventually we see the cold water line with a decent sized hole in it. Made the repair and the man was happy. Turns out I actually had found the leak and didn't drill into a good copper line.

Apparently copper piping vibrates all over the house. I was hearing noises all over. But my equipment has an analog gauge, so if the user can't trust his ears, he can look at the needle on the gauge. The higher the needle reading, the closer the leak.

Anyone else have problems with your first few slab leak detections?

Any tips, tricks or advice appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Gargalaxy

Glad you found it Tommy, my pleasure to help.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Gargalaxy said:


> Glad you found it Tommy, my pleasure to help.














Second electronic leak detection was a little off again.......oops!.....:laughing:

Thank you Alex {Gargalaxy} for bailing me out on this one.


For you guys not familiar with electronic leak detection, there is a little bit of time needed to gain familiarity with the process. Hopefully on my 3rd slab leak I will have enough experience to nail it the first time.

Thank you again Alex for the guidance and help in training me to use the equipment. The leak was exactly where you said it was, right under the stained area of concrete.


----------



## Gargalaxy

My pleasure Tommy. Like I told you: patience, we didn't learn this trade in one day. Years later and we still learning every day. I'm sure you will have right on the next one.
BTW nice repaired you did


----------



## Debo22

When I worked for a company I got pretty good at leak detection, they had Goldak equipment. I'd carry some change in my pocket, set a penny where I heard some noise, a nickel where I thought it was a little louder and so on. The higher the noise gets the higher coin. Jackhammer at the quarter. 
On my own I don't get enough slab leak calls to justify buying the equipment, I have a guy that will find it for a fair price. He marks the floor then I repair or reroute.


----------



## DesertOkie

I have had real bad luck doing the sound alone. I usually try to trace the lines before I get the listening equipment out. Tape your line then follow it with the probe until you get the loudest signal. It's good to know if there are tee's under the slab, they tend to make noise at a 3/4 1/2 tee when the 1/2 line has a hole in it down stream.

just my .02 pre tax.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Gargalaxy said:


> My pleasure Tommy. Like I told you: patience, we didn't learn this trade in one day. Years later and we still learning every day. I'm sure you will have right on the next one.
> BTW nice repaired you did














*Alex drove 1 1/2 hrs to my job to help me with this locate. What a help. Thanks for the training and help.* This was only my second slab leak with the elec. detection equipment.

Update: the customer called me this morning and said he hears water running in the wall still! I told him that I think his copper piping is starting to fail. He wants pricing on a re-pipe. 

I think that is why I was hearing sounds all over, he probably has {2} leaks; one on the hot that I repaired yesterday and possibly one on the cold. 

The leak that Alex and I located is the customer's 3rd slab leak, now he wants it re-piped. 

Anyway, back to the elec. leak detection. I am learning that I have to do a leak detection survey in the beginning by listening to all the hose spigots, angle stops, main valve and hydrants to start to zero in on the suspected leak. Then narrow it from there.


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL

DesertOkie said:


> I have had real bad luck doing the sound alone. I usually try to trace the lines before I get the listening equipment out. Tape your line then follow it with the probe until you get the loudest si gnal. It's good to know if there are tee's under the slab, they tend to make noise at a 3/4 1/2 tee when the 1/2 line has in it down stream.
> 
> 
> *Interesting reading on some of these older **posts all the way back to 2015. But the jest here finding a leak with sound, **sometimes making it louder by injecting more noise. And so-on! Over the years I have solved many problems with good old -- American ingenuity, thinking out of the box and experience. One of my favorite tools was a infrared thermometer, for piping concealed in a wall or floor. The temperature of the finished surfaces was a big clue to finding the problem. Both in plumbing/heating and electrical work ... *


----------



## rjbphd

I use my hearing dog to find the leak under slab

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


----------



## Debo22

rjbphd said:


> I use my hearing dog to find the leak under slab
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


A cat will work better if it is a hot water slab leak. It will lay on the warmest spot on the floor.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Did another electronic leak detection today. Wasn't really a true slab leak; they had water in the kitchen, garage, outside in the patio area behind kitchen, and living room and dining room rugs were wet. A quick visual inspection didn't reveal anything. I thought I'd see a leak under the D/W in the kitchen, but the D/W connection was not leaking.

It was sort of a mystery to the couple and to me as well for a while. Only looking visually didn't reveal anything. But after I did the electronic locate, I was able to zero in on the leak.

It was behind the wall under the kitchen sink. The usual culprit; copper with a hole. She was on the phone with her insurance company. While I was finishing up, the water extraction people showed up. I collected my charge and was gone while those boys were pulling up laminate wood{faux wood} floor boards. 

I would have found the leak eventually without the electronic equipment, but I couldn't have charged as much......:thumbsup:


----------



## smoldrn

Did my second leak last week. Both have been hw lines. Customer called me out for what he thought was a dw leak. While I was kneeling down to look at the dw, I felt the tiles under my knees were pretty warm.
Found the leak under the slab under the kit. cabinet.


----------



## Tommy plumber

smoldrn said:


> Did my second leak last week. Both have been hw lines. Customer called me out for what he thought was a dw leak. While I was kneeling down to look at the dw, I felt the tiles under my knees were pretty warm.
> Found the leak under the slab under the kit. cabinet.














Nice find. Did you open the slab or re-route a line overhead? What kind of leak detection equipment do you have? Do you ever open the slab and do a spot repair? If so, what kind of jackhammer do you have?

I just got into electronic leak detection and I'm looking for tips and tricks.


----------



## Master Mark

I have always found it easier just to call someone out that does slab leak detection for me and they pinpoint the exact spot....

I Thought of getting into this kind of work, but I am actually getting very tired of breaking up concrete to make repairs on old systems that ought to be completely re-piped overhead... I am pretty much over slab reapirs 

Just has some dufus down south on a slab that told us he has had his floor torn up and repairs made to his pipes 7 times......now he is selling out and moving....We charged him about 1500 to make the repairs and could not talk him into doing the whole house.... ...


----------



## Tommy plumber

As I said, it wasn't a true slab leak, but in the wall. However, since the customers were up in Pennsylvania for a few weeks, and not at home here in Florida, they didn't notice the leak when it began. They came home to half the home flooded and didn't notice where the water originated from.

I am not sure why the photo is sideways. I am having a hell of a time trying to import the pictures from my I-phone to my home computer.

The leak can be seen on the copper with the red sleeve. My inspection mirror is behind the copper.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Master Mark said:


> I have always found it easier just to call someone out that does slab leak detection for me and they pinpoint the exact spot....
> 
> I Thought of getting into this kind of work, but I am actually getting very tired of breaking up concrete to make repairs on old systems that ought to be completely re-piped overhead... I am pretty much over slab reapirs
> 
> Just has some dufus down south on a slab that told us he has had his floor torn up and repairs made to his pipes 7 times......now he is selling out and moving....We charged him about 1500 to make the repairs and could not talk him into doing the whole house.... ...















I used to call a guy to do the locate also, but sometimes they'd steal the work and I wouldn't get called back to do the work after the leak was located, or, one time a customer called up and asked me point blank if I had my own leak detection equipment. When he found out that I didn't have it, then he hung up. So for me, I was losing work. I invested in the equipment to capture that work that I used to lose. And I have not been disappointed.

There is a small learning curve, but it is not that steep.


----------



## Debo22

Tommy plumber said:


> I used to call a guy to do the locate also, but sometimes they'd steal the work and I wouldn't get called back to do the work after the leak was located, or, one time a customer called up and asked me point blank if I had my own leak detection equipment. When he found out that I didn't have it, then he hung up. So for me, I was losing work. I invested in the equipment to capture that work that I used to lose. And I have not been disappointed.
> 
> There is a small learning curve, but it is not that steep.


The biggest downside for having a guy locate the leak is when they're off a bit. If I had my own equipment I could have listened again when the leak wasn't where it sounded like it was. My locator guy marked the slab by the broom then he was off to his next job. I jackhammered there and didn't find the leak so I had to chase it back about 6 feet. The hole was on the bottom of the pipe and those are the toughest to pin point. He felt bad and gave me back about 1/2 the locate fee.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Debo22 said:


> The biggest downside for having a guy locate the leak is when they're off a bit. If I had my own equipment I could have listened again when the leak wasn't where it sounded like it was. My locator guy marked the slab by the broom then he was off to his next job. I jackhammered there and didn't find the leak so I had to chase it back about 6 feet. The hole was on the bottom of the pipe and those are the toughest to pin point. He felt bad and gave me back about 1/2 the locate fee.














What I have been doing to make absolutely certain that I'm not off by a lot is I will drill a small pilot hole with a 1/4" masonry bit. Drill into the grout joint between tiles if it is a tiled floor. 

In my limited experience, water will bubble up out of the pilot hole a few seconds after you pull the drill bit out. That assumes that the water is on. Then I am 100% certain that I'm on top of the leak. Get a 1/4" masonry bit that is at least 16" or so. 

Pretty decent of the guy to refund half the money. American leak detection is charging $350 for an electronic leak detection. That is also what I currently charge. My buddy in S. Florida tells me that in Palm Beach county {S. FL} the locates are $500! That is just to locate and then they leave!


----------



## Tommy plumber

Alex, {Gargalaxy here on PZ} did this locate with me to teach me. He was right on top of the leak. He drilled where he had marked the slab, and water came up out of the slab.


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber said:


> I used to call a guy to do the locate also, but sometimes they'd steal the work and I wouldn't get called back to do the work after the leak was located, or, one time a customer called up and asked me point blank if I had my own leak detection equipment. When he found out that I didn't have it, then he hung up. So for me, I was losing work. I invested in the equipment to capture that work that I used to lose. And I have not been disappointed.
> 
> There is a small learning curve, but it is not that steep.



I dont know if I would be all that pissed off 
if someone stole a slab leak from me or not...as I am too busy and dont 
have the desire to ride a jack hammer all day long....

Most of these guys who steal a job from you that you have sent them
to find a leak on have no sense of honor or fair play.. I would probably only 
use them once and if I found out I would let them know about it.... 

On the other hand if they were upfront and above board about it, . I would rather just get a $150 referral fee from them and let them do the job I sent them out on....:thumbup: Its a win win..


----------



## Gargalaxy

Debo22 said:


> The biggest downside for having a guy locate the leak is when they're off a bit. If I had my own equipment I could have listened again when the leak wasn't where it sounded like it was. My locator guy marked the slab by the broom then he was off to his next job. I jackhammered there and didn't find the leak so I had to chase it back about 6 feet. The hole was on the bottom of the pipe and those are the toughest to pin point. He felt bad and gave me back about 1/2 the locate fee.


I use to call American Leak before got my equipment, if they are off more than 16" ratio, you can call then and they HAVE to do the location again for FREE.


----------



## Debo22

Gargalaxy said:


> I use to call American Leak before got my equipment, if they are off more than 16" ratio, you can call then and they HAVE to do the location again for FREE.


Since I'm a small 2 man shop I like to give the business to other 1-2 man shops. I've used him a few times before and this was the first time he was off the mark.


----------



## alagunilla

Can somebody tell me how much is that Detectron 505 from the 50's and where can I find one?


----------



## Debo22

alagunilla said:


> Can somebody tell me how much is that Detectron 505 from the 50's and where can I find one?


Here's the link 
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/


----------



## smoldrn

Tommy plumber said:


> Nice find. Did you open the slab or re-route a line overhead? What kind of leak detection equipment do you have? Do you ever open the slab and do a spot repair? If so, what kind of jackhammer do you have?
> 
> I just got into electronic leak detection and I'm looking for tips and tricks.


Cut the bottom of the kit. cabinet open, busted the concrete and replaced a 4" section of pipe. No way to route a line overhead, since it was an island sink. I have a Bosch demo hammer I use, & I picked up a small Bosch chipping hammer for close work.
I don't own any leak detection equipment, just my ear. lol


----------



## smoldrn

40 yrs ago, I watched my old Master take his socks and shoes off in a tiled house in Naples, he found the leak...


----------



## Tommy plumber

...Finally got the picture rightside up.

Alex did the locate. He pinpointed the spot on the slab in the garage and marked it. He drilled a small pilot hole. About {3} seconds after he pulled the drill bit out, water came up. 

I opened the slab and the leak was right there.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Ok so I did my 3rd elec. leak detection.


Did the leak detection survey. Listened all over; angle stops, main valve, W/H pipes, and all {4} hose spigots. I got loudest reading at W/H pipe and main shut off valve. Both of which are in the garage. The customer has a well, not city water. So then I listened in between main valve and W/H copper pipe and found a really loud sound on floor right near W/H tank, but when I drilled a pilot hole in the slab, no water bubbled up out of the hole. So then I drilled near the bladder tank {where I heard the other loud reading on the main shut-off valve} but there was no water out of that hole either.

I'm going back next week with my nitrogen bottle to inject gas into the lines. My plumber buddy tells me the gas is necessary since it makes the hole 'scream' to use his words.

Besides not using the gas when I was there, what am I doing wrong?


----------



## Debo22

How far did you drill down through the slab? Pierce slab with drill bit, then put a metal rod (maybe a coat hanger) to pierce the vapor barrier. Water maybe contained under the vapor barrier.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Debo22 said:


> How far did you drill down through the slab? Pierce slab with drill bit, then put a metal rod (maybe a coat hanger) to pierce the vapor barrier. Water maybe contained under the vapor barrier.
















I definitely got through the 4" slab. I know that I pierced the vizqueen because I have sand on my bit. But it's dry. 

Maybe the sound I hear on the slab is just the copper pipe where it turns from horizontal to vertical as it approaches the point where it stubs up for the W/H.


----------



## Tommy plumber

...The W/H in the left corner gave me the loudest reading on the cold pipe; then the second loudest reading was the main shut-off valve {out of picture, but behind the bladder tank on the right.}

So after listening on the floor between those {2}, I heard a loud sound right under the slop sink near the W/H. But after drilling there, I don't hit water.


----------



## Tommy plumber

...Drill bit in the slab. Bit is like 12" long or so. Pink "X" is where I hear the loudest sound on the slab. 

But like I posted, maybe that is just where the copper turns from horizontal to vertical as it comes up behind the W/H. In fact, the copper pipe exits the slab outside of the wall; it is not inside the block but out of it right behind the tank. Maybe that is what I'm hearing.


----------



## The bear

I assume you already shut off valve at heater to eliminate hot side of system. Did well pump stop kicking on and off when main valve to home is turned off.


----------



## Tommy plumber

The bear said:


> I assume you already shut off valve at heater to eliminate hot side of system. Did well pump stop kicking on and off when main valve to home is turned off.












The W/H valve is so old that I left it alone. But the hot angle stops gave me almost no noise readings, but the cold angle stops were loud. Not all, but many of the cold. So I assumed that the leak is on the cold. 

I have to go back and try to pinpoint this leak so I can give the customer a game plan.


----------



## The bear

Sometimes I find w/h acts like an echo chamber so when possible I valve it off. Are you able to trace out the lines under the slab? Hopefully the cavity around the leak will be full of water which will make hearing the nitrogen easier.


----------



## The bear

Based on the picture of the water heater front panel it must be an older home. Your customer might be better off repiping.


----------



## Tommy plumber

The bear said:


> Based on the picture of the water heater front panel it must be an older home. Your customer might be better off repiping.














Yeah, I've been speaking to him since the copper coming out of the slab is green and in bad shape. Also, there is no sleeve around it. It is touching bare concrete and has been for years.

Since this is like his {4th} slab leak in X-number of years, he is being advised to speak with his homeowner's insurance company with regard to a re-pipe. His copper is failing.

Thanks for the tip on the W/H acting like an echo chamber.


----------



## Tommy plumber

The bear said:


> Based on the picture of the water heater front panel it must be an older home. Your customer might be better off repiping.
















The customer told me that his W/H is {49} yrs. old...........I told him that's how old I am. I'm not sure if he is correct or not. But yes it is the older style. Unless he replaced it since 1967 and he just can't remember.


----------



## Tommy plumber

The bear said:


> Sometimes I find w/h acts like an echo chamber so when possible I valve it off. Are you able to trace out the lines under the slab? Hopefully the cavity around the leak will be full of water which will make hearing the nitrogen easier.














You know what Bear, that is exactly what happened. When I was there again, I turned the W/H valve off, and I could not hear the water running in the garage. Whereas previously, I could hear water running in the garage and inside one of the bathrooms.


----------



## OpenSights

fenixco said:


> You can use *C21 acoustic water leak detector* this device using under concrete leak detection
> Selling on eBay


Stop spamming!


----------



## Tommy plumber

Update on my 3rd electronic leak detection,

After getting tips from you guys, like Gargalaxy {Alex} and Bear, I was able to zero in on the pink bathtub.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Then we {another plumber who gave me the locate in the first place} demo'd the bathroom and this is what we saw after we removed the tub; {in the corner you can still see some of the pink wall tiles. The 'after' picture was taken in almost the same position as the 'before' shot.}


----------



## Tommy plumber

So without drilling or even opening the slab, I got confirmation that my locate was dead on.

Thanks to you fellers who shared tips and tricks. I think that I'm getting the hang of this electronic leak detection.

That is the thing about this trade, a plumber may have {20+} years experience, and he will be called upon to do something outside of his comfort zone.


----------



## Cuda

It is an art as much as a science, and I learn something on almost every locate.


----------



## Gargalaxy

Rome wasn't built in one day!!


----------



## Tommy plumber

So American Leak Detection goes out to a customer's home {single family, 2-bath, nothing fancy} and does an electronic leak search. He marks the floor and leaves.

I get called to come out and open the slab and repair the leak on the hot side. So since I myself am new to the leak search game, just for fun I bring my leak detection equipment out and tell the customer that I want to verify Amer. Leak Detection's locate. I go through my little leak detection survey, and when I listen to where they marked the floor, I don't hear much of anything. But the with the water on, the water eventually rises up and soaks under the wood laminate. So I think that this may be messing up my ability to hear the noise.

So, I jackhammer open the slab, find {2} copper lines, but no leak.

I'm not bashing ALD, we all make mistakes.

I then did a locate, and I marked the slab about 8' further away, right near the kitchen sink. Customer is speaking with his homeowner's insurance since they are the ones who sent out ALD.

I think that I may be doing a re-route of that line overhead.

But have you guys seen anything like this? I know newbies may be off, but I feel bad for the technician that came out and was this far off.


----------



## Tommy plumber

...


----------



## Tommy plumber

I hate how I cannot rotate these pictures with an I phone.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Where the blue X is, there are definitely {2} copper lines. He got that right, but no leak. And the lines are not exactly under the X, they are a bit off center from his mark.

Again, I'm not bashing, just wondering how it happened.


----------



## Tommy plumber

That's better.

Oops, I thought I rotated it.


----------



## Tommy plumber

...what a pain in the a$$. I rotate the image on my home computer, but then it posts it here to PZ sideways.


----------



## Debo22

Same scenario, insurance sent ALD to find the ceiling leak.


----------



## Cuda

The problem is we do not know what ALD used to locate, did they use Infrared which showed the water path and some type of mic for the sound who knows. I have moved away from listening with my ears and using digital sound surveys to pinpoint the leak based on constant noise at it's highest level. Example of leak detection equipment that does this is HL5000 metrotech, the LD18 model by subsurface solutions, sewerins top model,FCS XMic. All of these filter out the noise that is not constant and then you enter the mode for the type of pipe you suspect it is because copper and plastic are at different HZ levels. I still use the headphones to listen with my own ears but the software survey beats my old ears everytime.


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber said:


> So American Leak Detection goes out to a customer's home {single family, 2-bath, nothing fancy} and does an electronic leak search. He marks the floor and leaves.
> 
> I get called to come out and open the slab and repair the leak on the hot side. So since I myself am new to the leak search game, just for fun I bring my leak detection equipment out and tell the customer that I want to verify Amer. Leak Detection's locate. I go through my little leak detection survey, and when I listen to where they marked the floor, I don't hear much of anything. But the with the water on, the water eventually rises up and soaks under the wood laminate. So I think that this may be messing up my ability to hear the noise.
> 
> So, I jackhammer open the slab, find {2} copper lines, but no leak.
> 
> I'm not bashing ALD, we all make mistakes.
> 
> I then did a locate, and I marked the slab about 8' further away, right near the kitchen sink. Customer is speaking with his homeowner's insurance since they are the ones who sent out ALD.
> 
> *I think that I may be doing a re-route of that line overhea*d.
> 
> But have you guys seen anything like this? I know newbies may be off, but I feel bad for the technician that came out and was this far off.




I would rather repipe the whole house out of the slab instead of getting into a mess tearing up the whole place attempting to make a minor repair.... 
I have always told the customer that these leaks usually come in 3ss and they can figure sometime in the future they will have other problems..

I dont care to get involved with an older home from the 50s cause its gonna be trouble from that time onward...


----------



## 89plumbum

Tommy plumber said:


> ...


I’m sure you know this Tom, but I think I would have pulled that threshold molding and drilled a small hole to make sure ground was wet. I used to used a long chrome supply tube, to shove down the hole.


----------



## Tommy plumber

89plumbum said:


> I’m sure you know this Tom, but I think I would have pulled that threshold molding and drilled a small hole to make sure ground was wet. I used to used a long chrome supply tube, to shove down the hole.


 













Hi Stan. I have in the past drilled little pilot holes when I was unsure of my locate {I'm still learning the ropes since I'm new to the leak detection game}. When I see the water start to seep up out of the hole, then I know I'm right on top of the leak.

But since Amer. Leak Detection did the locate, I will let them go back and re-trace their steps. They are going back out this week. 

After discovering that there was no leak where they marked the floor, I did do a locate with my equipment. I marked the floor about 8' away and then left. 

All State homeowner's insurance is actually the one who called ALD on the customer's behalf.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Master Mark said:


> I would rather repipe the whole house out of the slab instead of getting into a mess tearing up the whole place attempting to make a minor repair....
> I have always told the customer that these leaks usually come in 3ss and they can figure sometime in the future they will have other problems..
> 
> I dont care to get involved with an older home from the 50s cause its gonna be trouble from that time onward...


 















Mark, I always give them their {3} options:

1} spot repair,
2} re-route the leaking line overhead,
3} complete re-pipe of whole house.


I explain each option along with pros and cons of each and let them decide.

I don't like pushy salesman so I don't try to lead them down any particular path.

Edit: a 4th option that I picked up here on PZ is where some plumbers will snake a smaller PEX line into the leaking line and then tie it in to the manifold. I've never done that. I don't like the undersizing aspect of that or what if there is a tee fitting under the slab?


----------



## Tommy plumber

89plumbum said:


> I’m sure you know this Tom, but I think I would have pulled that threshold molding and drilled a small hole to make sure ground was wet. I used to used a long chrome supply tube, to shove down the hole.


 












Stan, any tips and tricks are appreciated brother since I'm new to the leak detection game. 

The first one that I did, I was way, way, way off. Like 10' off!.......:laughing:....

Anyway, I think I'm getting the hang of it.

How do you like NC by the way? Different climate than Orlando. You get {4} seasons in NC for sure.


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber said:


> Mark, I always give them their {3} options:
> 
> 1} spot repair,
> 2} re-route the leaking line overhead,
> 3} complete re-pipe of whole house.
> 
> 
> I explain each option along with pros and cons of each and let them decide.
> 
> I don't like pushy salesman so I don't try to lead them down any particular path.
> 
> Edit: a 4th option that I picked up here on PZ is where some plumbers will snake a smaller PEX line into the leaking line and then tie it in to the manifold. I've never done that. I don't like the undersizing aspect of that or what if there is a tee fitting under the slab?



I dont push anything at all,, we actually had one fellow that we got to repair his 7th leak in the home for 1500, and I just shook my head and could not believe he would have the place torn up that many times over a 5 year period... 

I got my check for the work and cashed it the same day just to be sure another leak did not spring up before the sun set .......:laughing:


I have had a couple that would have been so easy to re-pipe and they refused to do it ,, so I told them to call around for other estimates because I was just too busy and not in the mood to tear the hell out of their bathroom looking for a leak .........guess I am getting lazy:


----------



## Tommy plumber

Master Mark said:


> I dont push anything at all,, *we actually had one fellow that we got to repair his 7th leak in* *the home* for 1500, and I just shook my head and could not believe he would have the place torn up that many times over a 5 year period...
> 
> I got my check for the work and cashed it the same day just to be sure another leak did not spring up before the sun set .......:laughing:
> 
> 
> I have had a couple that would have been so easy to re-pipe and they refused to do it ,, so I told them to call around for other estimates because I was just too busy and not in the mood to tear the hell out of their bathroom looking for a leak .........guess I am getting lazy:


 











I did an electronic leak search for a gentleman recently who was on his 8th slab leak. In fact, {2} of the holes in his slab were not even repaired in his garage; they were wide open exposing the copper water lines. It looked like Al Qaeda dropped a few IED's in the place.

I told him that I needed to install a new ball valve on the W/H to get accurate test results. With the hot open, you could actually hear water running with everything turned off. And when I turned off the new ball valve on the W/H, THAT running stopped, but something else was running, but just more quietly! Yep, he had not {1} but {2} slab leaks.

Now all of a sudden he was interested in a whole-house re-pipe. We quoted somewhere around $9800. I guess he got a lower quote. His home has an apartment connected to the main house. So in all: {4} baths, {2} kitchens, {2} W/H's, {2} laundries. My plumber buddy and I don't mind losing the work if we don't get our price.


----------



## Master Mark

i had an old lady this spring who had me come out to look
at her slab leak on a sat afternoon ...basically a free estimate... she had the spot marked already and I got her permission to open up the drywall under her water heater in the garage to see if the pipe led to a manifold.... 

I found the pipe where it came up and gave her a price to tear up the floor or just re-p[ipe the line over head through the garage and eliminate the line all together...... 

She said that she would get back to me about this...... 

About 5 months has passed and I get a call from her complaining to me and expecting me to come back out to her home to repair the drywall in the garage where I made a hole... Of course a bunch of other plumbers used that hole to estimate this job......

I asked her who finally did the work for her and why did they not patch the hole for her and she barked at me it was none of my business who she had to the work........ 

I politely told her she had to be crazy and to go fuc/ herself


----------



## 89plumbum

Tommy plumber said:


> Stan, any tips and tricks are appreciated brother since I'm new to the leak detection game.
> 
> The first one that I did, I was way, way, way off. Like 10' off!.......:laughing:....
> 
> Anyway, I think I'm getting the hang of it.
> 
> How do you like NC by the way? Different climate than Orlando. You get {4} seasons in NC for sure.


Lovin the cool weather for sure.

We had a slab leak once where my boss promised the home owner we would only make one hole. :blink:

He thought for sure it was behind the tub, but all are exploratory holes came back dry.

So from the exterior of the house we dug down to the footer and popped a few holes in the stem wall above the footer and below the slab. We shoved a piece of 3/4” copper towards where the loudest point was. (We had an old Fisher leak detector.)

About 3/4 of the way (16ft) we hit a cavern and water came pouring out of our pipe. We could tell where the cavern started and ended. Pulled our pipe back, measured our hole out and drilled a pilot just to make sure. Started chipping in the middle of the kitchen and found leak. 

Labor intensive for sure. We only did it this way a few times.

Come to think of it, we washed pipes under houses many time to get water to certain areas. Some old concrete homes don’t have much ceiling space if any at all.

I don’t miss slab leaks one bit.


----------



## Tommy plumber

89plumbum said:


> Lovin the cool weather for sure.
> 
> We had a slab leak once where my boss promised the home owner we would only make one hole. :blink:
> 
> He thought for sure it was behind the tub, but all are exploratory holes came back dry.
> 
> So from the exterior of the house we dug down to the footer and popped a few holes in the stem wall above the footer and below the slab. We shoved a piece of 3/4” copper towards where the loudest point was. (We had an old Fisher leak detector.)
> 
> About 3/4 of the way (16ft) we hit a cavern and water came pouring out of our pipe. We could tell where the cavern started and ended. Pulled our pipe back, measured our hole out and drilled a pilot just to make sure. Started chipping in the middle of the kitchen and found leak.
> 
> Labor intensive for sure. We only did it this way a few times.
> 
> Come to think of it, we washed pipes under houses many time to get water to certain areas. Some old concrete homes don’t have much ceiling space if any at all.
> 
> I don’t miss slab leaks one bit.


 













So the Fisher leak detection equipment is inferior? How well do you know some of the other types of leak detection equipment?

I have a Sub Surface and I guess it is a quality device, but I am no expert, merely a beginner.


----------



## MACPLUMB777

I always used Goldak Electronics good Instruments the company use's
these in the field every doing leak and pipe detection for plumbers who 
do not have equipment or want to purchase it 
They also have pipe and sewer tracing Equipment,

http://www.goldak.com/


----------



## MACPLUMB777

I have used a stethoscope, and Goldak to track leaks and made good money 
doing it back in the day the only times we recommended repipes is when 
it was galv. under slab 

I once had a house that had Radiant under floor, plus potable hot and cold
one was Copper, and the other Galv, H.O. was very worried about messing 
up their Radiant so recommended a repipe to get above slab


----------



## Debo22

MACPLUMB777 said:


> I always used Goldak Electronics good Instruments the company use's
> these in the field every doing leak and pipe detection for plumbers who
> do not have equipment or want to purchase it
> They also have pipe and sewer tracing Equipment,
> 
> http://www.goldak.com/


I only used Goldak because that was what was provided by the company. I don't think I was ever wrong on a locate. I'm not sure if it was the equipment, skill, luck, or just too scared of jack hammering the wrong spot so I triple/quadruple checked before breaking concrete.


----------



## Cuda

*re slab leaks*

Tommy are you using a low and a high push button for filters at the same time or just using a single button on the LD12? Should be using 2 buttons to filter out things that are not going to be leak noise. I had to play with the filters and train my self that it was not my hearing everything that was important on leaks when I used the LD12


----------



## 89plumbum

Tommy plumber said:


> So the Fisher leak detection equipment is inferior? How well do you know some of the other types of leak detection equipment?
> 
> I have a Sub Surface and I guess it is a quality device, but I am no expert, merely a beginner.


I’ve only had experience with Fisher and Gen-ear. Both equal for me. We had a guy who would locate for us sometimes, but he was off several times. 

My dad was the only service plumber where I first started, seemed like he was always doing slab leaks. I remember our boss saying once that he had no need for a leak detector while my dad was on the job. I like to go by ear first then break out the LD.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Cuda said:


> Tommy are you using a low and a high push button for filters at the same time or just using a single button on the LD12? Should be using 2 buttons to filter out things that are not going to be leak noise. I had to play with the filters and train my self that it was not my hearing everything that was important on leaks when I used the LD12


 










I have been playing around with the Hz buttons on the front of the device.

I'll have to start using the filter switches on the sides of the unit.

If I'm in doubt, I'll drill a pilot hole on top somewhere, usually in a grout joint to see if I'm on top of the leak.


----------



## Tommy plumber

I just purchased an infra red camera for electronic leak detection. This is a really professional tool. I haven't used it yet on a slab leak.

It has a digital camera as well as the infra red camera so instead of just the thermal image it gives the outline of the objects in the view as well.

In the top image I was running hot water only down the drain in the bathroom sink.

Bottom image is my daughter.


----------



## Tommy plumber

There is a circle in the center of the IR image; the temperature reading in the upper left hand corner is the temperature of the object in that circle visible in the center of the screen.

I would recommend my electronic leak detection plumbing colleagues get one of these if they don't already have one.


----------



## Cuda

I have the e60 model and best I can tell you is they are great at seeing differences so they are good on hot lines for detection in slabs, I can see cold lines only in very rare situations. Flir has some online free courses that are actually pretty good they only ask that you fill out the registration form. From one of the classes I was able to find a roof leak at a local business (friend of mine) by going there at the end of the day just before night and the cold water was heated from the sun all day so when the roof started cooling it cooled faster than the water and I could clearly see the leak. Little kids at jobs think it's cool when I put my hand on the wall for a few seconds and then show them the hand print with the camera lol


----------



## rjbphd

I use the dog to find my slab leaks.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


----------



## Tommy plumber

Cuda said:


> *I can see cold lines only in very rare situations*. Flir has some online free courses that are actually pretty good they only ask that you fill out the registration form.
> 
> 
> lol


 












Cuda, can you please be more specific? I have been wondering if I can use the Infra red camera on a cold leak.

Is the temperature of the incoming cold much colder than the surrounding area in the home?


----------



## OpenSights

Tommy plumber said:


> I just purchased an infra red camera for electronic leak detection. This is a really professional tool. I haven't used it yet on a slab leak.
> 
> It has a digital camera as well as the infra red camera so instead of just the thermal image it gives the outline of the objects in the view as well.
> 
> In the top image I was running hot water only down the drain in the bathroom sink.
> 
> Bottom image is my daughter.


Playing around with the FLIR on a cobra was pretty cool... you could see which WM to stay away from for the next week. Just saying.


----------



## Cuda

Tommy plumber said:


> Cuda, can you please be more specific? I have been wondering if I can use the Infra red camera on a cold leak.
> 
> Is the temperature of the incoming cold much colder than the surrounding area in the home?


Just remember it is temperature differences, so to see a cold leak on a cement floor is hard so you have to get creative and either put concrete blankets on the floor or use a space heater directed at a certain area, then after you have brought the temp up you remove the heat and look with the camera for the area that cools first!


----------



## Tommy plumber

Cuda said:


> Just remember it is temperature differences, so to see a cold leak on a cement floor is hard so you have to get creative and either put concrete blankets on the floor or use a space heater directed at a certain area, then after you have brought the temp up you remove the heat and look with the camera for the area that cools first!


 










Awesome. That is a great tip. Thanks Cuda.
I have pondered crossing the hot and cold at the washing machine connections to feed hot water back into the cold side to find a leak on the cold piping, but I am not convinced that it would work.

A regular customer has me coming out Monday, he suspects a slab leak.


----------



## Cuda

Tommy plumber said:


> Awesome. That is a great tip. Thanks Cuda.
> I have pondered crossing the hot and cold at the washing machine connections to feed hot water back into the cold side to find a leak on the cold piping, but I am not convinced that it would work.
> 
> A regular customer has me coming out Monday, he suspects a slab leak.


Yes if you are at a job and run the hot water and can see the hotlines in the slab then you can do a cross and you should see the cold lines as well. I use the infrared to see radiant floor heating lines before I open up concrete for footing drain installs. Learning to set the camera instead of using the default Auto settings helps too, lets sya on auto pointed at the floor the range shows 62 to 80 degrees you can manually bring them closer together like 62 to 68 as the range and you then see just what you are after. Play around on walls under bathroom sinks with the hot on to see what I mean.


----------



## Tommy plumber

I have a question for those who do electronic leak detection: If memory serves me correctly, I thought American Leak detection said that if the leak is less than {15} gallons per hour, they couldn't locate it. Does that sound right? I can't remember for sure what they said, it was a number of years ago.

I'll tell you why I am thinking of this topic, the other week I had a leak in the wall. It was a really, really tiny leak. Water was streaming out of a CPVC joint in the wall. The customer would mop the floor up {3} times a day. She only got such a small amount of water on the floor, that she could just quickly mop it up and then the puddle would return in like 6-8 hours. So it was not a major leak.

So I opened the wall and decided that I would use my Sub Surface LD-12 to listen to that tiny leak. But with my probe rod on the line right next to the leak, I wasn't able to hear any sound.

So that got me thinking that if that leak had been under the slab, it would've been silent. Unless, putting gas in the line would have made it scream? I don't know. My buddy who does slab leaks says the gas in the lines "makes it scream" to use his words. Does it? Or are some tiny, tiny leaks undetectable?


----------



## Cuda

The small leaks are the hardest to find, leaks in plastic are hard to find and when you combine the 2 well it just got harder but I think ALD knows that and even though they find small leaks they just don't put a lot of extra time into them after all they are established as the goto company for the insurance industry so they can put in waivers like that. Adding air or traceable gas will always enhance the detection odds. I pretty much have almost all the major kinds of leak detection equipment made but even helium is not 100% because there can be sheets of plastic or other pipes and like electricity, water etc. it takes the path of least resistance and can appear to be leaking in one spot but it is farther away. I hate sport digging but sometimes it is just part of the process I just try to minimize it as much as I can.


----------



## Tommy plumber

I went out on a slab leak today for a regular customer. I learned something today; with only a preliminary check of the system, I thought the leak was on the hot side. When I turned off the W/H valve, then opened it, I would hear what sounded like water rushing in to fill the tank. 

But the old valve on the W/H was not holding 100% so I installed a new ball valve on the W/H. With the new valve installed, I set up my gauges on the hot and cold and then valved off the hot side from the cold. To my surprise, the hot side held pressure. What I have deduced is that the leak is on a cold line feeding the W/H from the incoming service just to the right of the W/H. What I thought was water rushing into the tank was in reality air bubbling up into the cold feed line and then when the water was turned on, the incoming water compressed the air and pushed it into the tank. 

Without the new valve and my gauges, I could have mis-identified the leak as having been on the hot side. I'm going back next week to re-route the line around the wall to feed the W/H. 

I gave my customer the option of a whole house re-pipe, {this is the 2nd slab leak he has called me out on} he wants to repair this and if he gets a 3rd slab leak, then he wants to re-pipe the whole house.


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber said:


> I just purchased an infra red camera for electronic leak detection. This is a really professional tool. I haven't used it yet on a slab leak.
> 
> It has a digital camera as well as the infra red camera so instead of just the thermal image it gives the outline of the objects in the view as well.
> 
> In the top image I was running hot water only down the drain in the bathroom sink.
> 
> Bottom image is my daughter.




From whom did you buy the infra red equipment?? I have seen cheap stuff tha t plugs into your phone and thought about buying that...


I have has 2 calls on slab leaks on Satruday already before x-mas day...
I passed them on to the thermo imageing place that finds the leaks for us
Dont know if I will hear back from them or not.... I think these guys might
be re-ferring them to other plumbers.... 

I really dont care who gets to do the job... the work is not up my alley or something I love to do ....


----------



## Tommy plumber

Master Mark said:


> From whom did you buy the infra red equipment?? I have seen cheap stuff tha t plugs into your phone and thought about buying that...
> 
> 
> I have has 2 calls on slab leaks on Satruday already before x-mas day...
> I passed them on to the thermo imageing place that finds the leaks for us
> Dont know if I will hear back from them or not.... I think these guys might
> be re-ferring them to other plumbers....
> 
> I really dont care who gets to do the job... the work is not up my alley or something I love to do ....


 












About the only thing that excites me about plumbing is my foray into electronic leak detection. I'm sharpening my leak detection skills. 

Anyway, I purchased the FLIR thermal camera from someone on Amazon.com. I paid $499.00. Some used models are being sold for $399.00 but I don't like buying delicate electronic equipment that is used. May have been dropped in a puddle or abused, you know? 

I enjoy doing electronic leak detections. 

I feel like the surgeon who walks into the operating room with his sterile hands up in the air and has his staff put his latex gloves onto his hands; then he walks over to the patient that his operating room staff has prepped, sedated and all ready for the surgeon to operate on. 

Electronic leak detection is a skill that not too many plumbers offer. I worked for companies for years that all subbed that out to Amer. Leak Detection. And those guys are not plumbers.

Mark, you can do just the electronic leak detections and leave the grunt work of opening the slab and/or re-routing the lines overhead. Show up, find the leak, mark the spot on the floor, collect payment and leave. Amer. Leak Detection is the company that a lot of insurance companies use as the go-to company to find leaks. Why can't that be you or I?


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber;.
Mark said:


> I suppose you are correct .... they make about 350 just to walk into the door and spend an hour locating a leak.....
> 
> If you were to make a web site about your work and post a load of pictures and information you probably would come up on the top of google pretty quickly...
> 
> 
> I have just never cared for it, leak detection..that is...
> 
> Presently , in our city we are getting hit hard with water softeners going bad at 6 years out due to chlorine and chlorimines now heavy in the water.... so I am doing a lot of soft water change outs and would rather focus on that and water heaters..... We have a soft water web site that seems to be hitting the nail on the head for us right now and that is what I want to happen....... softwaterindianapolis.com
> 
> you find your nitch , throw up a web site and wait for google to put wind in your sails, and then make a good living doing just that......
> 
> and you stay away from all the other things that will run you ragged like sewer cleaning... and licking some contractors balls doing slab rough inns...
> 
> I never cared for the taste myself.........:no::no:


----------



## Tommy plumber

Master Mark said:


> I suppose you are correct .... they make about 350 just to walk into the door and spend an hour locating a leak.....
> 
> If you were to make a web site about your work and post a load of pictures and information you probably would come up on the top of google pretty quickly...
> 
> 
> ....... softwaterindianapolis.com
> 
> you find your nitch ,
> .........:no::no:


 













Yes, find your niche. Mine is service with slab leaks thrown in. 

Sounds like your soft water Indianapolis is doing well.


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber said:


> Yes, find your niche. Mine is service with slab leaks thrown in.
> 
> Sounds like your soft water Indianapolis is doing well.



I need to upgrade the web site with some pictures of package deals for both a clack water softener and a pre catalytic charcoal system to take out chloriines..

like installing both for the low low price of 2500....

you cant believe what Culligan and others are chargeing for both of them:blink::blink:.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Continuation of electronic leak detection from Saturday:

I went back out and re-routed a line to bypass the leaking copper line under the slab.

Without the elec. leak detection equipment, I wouldn't capture this work. I am getting a handle on the process of locating slab leaks. 

It would have been nice to have training........instead of learning on the job screwing up........:laughing:


----------



## Tommy plumber

The leaking line was a 3/4" copper cold line running from the incoming 1" PVC {seen in picture} to the manifold in the wall behind the W/H.

You can see the "W/S" marked in paint marker denoting the bad line. WS for water service.

My equipment was right on the money. With the Subsurface leak detection equipment, the locating was pretty simple.

One plumber who purchased the Gen Ear from General said that the unit from General was a disappointment. He could never get closer than 5'. He was always off, never right on top of the leak. I was looking at Gen Ear before I bought the Subsurface. I'm glad that I didn't make the mistake of buying the Gen Ear. Unless of course, in the right hands, maybe the equipment is decent. 

But for a beginner newbie like me, the advice that mytxplumber {a member here on PZ} gave was to buy the more expensive unit, and not go with the cheaper inexpensive units.

Thanks mytxplumber, gargalaxy {Alex} and LAsercut for all the tips and advice.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber said:


> The leaking line was a 3/4" copper cold line running from the incoming 1" PVC {seen in picture} to the manifold in the wall behind the W/H.
> 
> You can see the "W/S" marked in paint marker denoting the bad line. WS for water service.
> 
> My equipment was right on the money. With the Subsurface leak detection equipment, the locating was pretty simple.
> 
> One plumber who purchased the Gen Ear from General said that the unit from General was a disappointment. He could never get closer than 5'. He was always off, never right on top of the leak. I was looking at Gen Ear before I bought the Subsurface. I'm glad that I didn't make the mistake of buying the Gen Ear. Unless of course, in the right hands, maybe the equipment is decent.
> 
> But for a beginner newbie like me, the advice that mytxplumber {a member here on PZ} gave was to buy the more expensive unit, and not go with the cheaper inexpensive units.
> 
> Thanks mytxplumber, gargalaxy {Alex} and LAsercut for all the tips and advice.....:thumbsup:




I dont know what you paid for the equipment but I am wondering if you have broke even on your investment as far as the leak detection end of the game goes???/


----------



## Tommy plumber

Master Mark said:


> I dont know what you paid for the equipment but I am wondering if you have broke even on your investment as far as the leak detection end of the game goes???/


 












I have kept track; I've done {9} electronic leak detections thus far. At $350 each, that alone is $3150.00 The Sub surface LD -12 lists for $3500, although I paid a few hundred less than that. So the equipment is paid for from just the electronic leak detections. Then there are the repairs that are made which piggyback off of the original leak search. Those repairs and re-pipes alone are around $4000.00 {I have bid a couple of re-pipes but lost them. My buddy and I did one this summer.}

So since February of this year, I've earned over $7000 to my bottom line by adding electronic leak detection to my services offered. 

Remember Mark, I got into this only because I was losing slab leak repairs and re-pipes due to the fact that I didn't offer electronic leak detection to my customers. I literally had one man call me and ask me point blank if I had leak detection equipment {he sounded a bit more educated than your average customer who calls}. When I said 'no', he hung up and went elsewhere. 

So instead of losing these types of calls, I'm all over them now.

And if one can get a working relationship with an insurance company, then that would be even more work. Currently I'm not being called by homeowners' insurance companies. But I'm working that angle.


----------



## 89plumbum

Looking good Tom. I’m glad it’s working out for you.


----------



## Tommy plumber

89plumbum said:


> Looking good Tom. I’m glad it’s working out for you.


 










Thanks Stan. I finally got a handle on leak detection. I'm still using the van you sold me....going strong brother.


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber said:


> I have kept track; I've done {9} electronic leak detections thus far. At $350 each, that alone is $3150.00 The Sub surface LD -12 lists for $3500, although I paid a few hundred less than that. So the equipment is paid for from just the electronic leak detections. Then there are the repairs that are made which piggyback off of the original leak search. Those repairs and re-pipes alone are around $4000.00 {I have bid a couple of re-pipes but lost them. My buddy and I did one this summer.}
> 
> So since February of this year, I've earned over $7000 to my bottom line by adding electronic leak detection to my services offered.
> 
> Remember Mark, I got into this only because I was losing slab leak repairs and re-pipes due to the fact that I didn't offer electronic leak detection to my customers. I literally had one man call me and ask me point blank if I had leak detection equipment {he sounded a bit more educated than your average customer who calls}. When I said 'no', he hung up and went elsewhere.
> 
> So instead of losing these types of calls, I'm all over them now.
> 
> And if one can get a working relationship with an insurance company, then that would be even more work. Currently I'm not being called by homeowners' insurance companies. But I'm working that angle.



Thanks for the information,, I am probably giving away a bunch of it every month ..... I happily give free advice to customers who call me and ask how to proceed and I refer them to a couple of places to get the leak decteted but never hear back from them............. 

I dont have the time and I am too busy. So I am not gonna buy the equipment and then train some moron to go out and do this work or train myself for that matter..... 

Now if I was dead in the water and in need of something to do I would consider it.........,


----------



## Tommy plumber

Did another slab leak for a couple. Are you guys seeing CPVC used in new homes in your area? Around here, all the new homes are piped with CPVC water piping.

Plumbers up north laugh at CPVC, but here, it is in many new homes.


----------



## Tommy plumber

A 3/4" 90 had a crack in the crook of the elbow. It was a hot leak. CPVC changes color as it ages plus it gets brittle.

Maybe in the years to come, I'll be seeing a lot more slab leaks on CPVC and not just copper, who knows?


----------



## MACPLUMB777

TOMMY 
I don't what the water service are here, but all the apts, are piped with cpvc,
this is 4 buildings, all 3 story, each is about 120 units,

A while back they went into my storage unit to replace the interior drywall
found that they bring in a cold 3/4" line that hits a G/V then tees into water heater, and feeds the Apt, anyway they removed the wtr/htr and when replaced the main G/V had froze broken the good part was the Valve was screwed
onto male adp. but they still had to notify the building of water shut down,

By the way I used to do leak detection in So. CA. both as a JMan and as a 
Master Contractor used Goldak Equipment which is made out of So. CA.


----------



## Spacepirate

Tommy plumber said:


> The leaking line was a 3/4" copper cold line running from the incoming 1" PVC {seen in picture} to the manifold in the wall behind the W/H.
> 
> You can see the "W/S" marked in paint marker denoting the bad line. WS for water service.
> 
> My equipment was right on the money. With the Subsurface leak detection equipment, the locating was pretty simple.
> 
> One plumber who purchased the Gen Ear from General said that the unit from General was a disappointment. He could never get closer than 5'. He was always off, never right on top of the leak. I was looking at Gen Ear before I bought the Subsurface. I'm glad that I didn't make the mistake of buying the Gen Ear. Unless of course, in the right hands, maybe the equipment is decent.
> 
> But for a beginner newbie like me, the advice that mytxplumber {a member here on PZ} gave was to buy the more expensive unit, and not go with the cheaper inexpensive units.
> 
> Thanks mytxplumber, gargalaxy {Alex} and LAsercut for all the tips and advice.....:thumbsup:


We have a gen ear and it has dissapointed me. Not only is it cheap looking compared to other detectors but i also have hard time locating with it. I make out okay with it but really i dread the day i get one i cant locate with it . :sad2: Its good for getting you in a general area just usually not right where you need to be: The ads for the older gen ear had all these dials and settings . The new gen ear is basically an on off switch attached to a microphone with a cheap flashlight. The unit is all plastic too.:surprise:

Also i think it does have to do with the operator. I seem to be getting better at leak locating so maybe in a few more detections ill be praising it lol:biggrin:


----------



## Tommy plumber

Spacepirate said:


> We have a gen ear and it has dissapointed me. Not only is it cheap looking compared to other detectors but i also have hard time locating with it. I make out okay with it but really i dread the day i get one i cant locate with it . :sad2: Its good for getting you in a general area just usually not right where you need to be: The ads for the older gen ear had all these dials and settings . The new gen ear is basically an on off switch attached to a microphone with a cheap flashlight. The unit is all plastic too.:surprise:
> 
> Also i think it does have to do with the operator. I seem to be getting better at leak locating so maybe in a few more detections ill be praising it lol:biggrin:


 











Another plumber on here said the same thing about General's Gen Ear. He could never get within 5' of the leak. He said it was an embarrassment and a waste of money. 

With my Sub Surface, I usually can get right on top of a slab leak. I only have had this product, so I am NOT an expert, but I think it has better technology than the Gen Ear. Just my opinion.

The Gen Ear retails for about $1700 whereas the Sub Surface costs $3500 new. My unit has a metal box, high quality headphones {company states that the headphones are aircraft quality}, along with an analog gauge to tell the operator how strong the signal is just in case the operator can't trust his hearing.
I would recommend this unit for my professional plumbing colleagues.


This picture is from a slab leak. I found the loudest reading under the tub. My plumber buddy and I did a whole-house re-pipe at this gentleman's house which included a new W/H, replacing this pink tub, new tub valves and a new slop sink in the garage. Anyway, my point is that after we pulled up the tub, we saw water oozing up out of cracks in the slab. So that gave me a good feeling on my locate since I was still learning when I did this electronic leak detection. I had 100% confirmation that I was right on top of the leak.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Here is a picture taken from about the same exact location but with the tub pulled, and the walls demo'd. You can still see a pink tile on the wall near the W/C. I was too lazy to pull the toilet, we worked around it.


----------



## Master Mark

Tommy plumber said:


> Here is a picture taken from about the same exact location but with the tub pulled, and the walls demo'd. You can still see a pink tile on the wall near the W/C. I was too lazy to pull the toilet, we worked around it.



Tommy....their ought to be a law against putting CPVC in slab houses under concrete...... they WILL expand and break, its just a matter of time... someone should do jail time for a mess like that....

I did a bunch of slab homes back in the early 80s and I put aramaflex on ALL the underground copper pipes....the extra cost and money was not an issue to me... I have never heard back from any of those jobs, no slab leaks what-so-ever.......and I will go to my grave knowing I did not do a half assed job on those homes. that would only last a few years.....


So I got a question ...On the job you are repairing right now, I am just wondering would it not have been an easier fix to re-pipe the whole house overhead out of pex rather than literally tearing out the bathtub and destroying the bathroom to get to the leak.???? 

Inquiring minds want to know... 

was the owner just too much of a tight ass or was it impossible to do???


----------



## Tommy plumber

Master Mark said:


> Tommy....their ought to be a law against putting CPVC in slab houses under concrete...... they WILL expand and break, its just a matter of time... someone should do jail time for a mess like that....
> 
> I did a bunch of slab homes back in the early 80s and I put aramaflex on ALL the underground copper pipes....the extra cost and money was not an issue to me... I have never heard back from any of those jobs, no slab leaks what-so-ever.......and I will go to my grave knowing I did not do a half assed job on those homes. that would only last a few years.....
> 
> 
> So I got a question ...On the job you are repairing right now, I am just wondering would it not have been an easier fix to re-pipe the whole house overhead out of pex rather than literally tearing out the bathtub and destroying the bathroom to get to the leak.????
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know...
> 
> was the owner just too much of a tight ass or was it impossible to do???


 











On the job with the pink tub, we didn't open the slab. We did in fact do a whole house re-pipe. I was the assistant on that job, my buddy referred me to do the elec. leak detection, then he had me help him on the re-pipe.

And on that job, there was copper in the slab.

On the other picture that I posted, the customer wanted a spot repair on his CPVC which I did for him.

I have another customer who has had me do {2} spot repairs on his copper slab leaks. If he gets a {3rd} slab leak, he will go with my suggestion of a whole house re-pipe.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Cuda said:


> Just remember it is temperature differences, so to see a cold leak on a cement floor is hard so you have to get creative and either put concrete blankets on the floor or use a space heater directed at a certain area, then after you have brought the temp up you remove the heat and look with the camera for the area that cools first!


 











Cuda and Alex {Gargalaxy} and of course for you other electronic leak detection guys, a tip that I came up with. 

First some background: The gentleman owns a home here in FL but lives up North, Michigan I think. The cleaning lady heard water running in the house. I was called out to do an electronic leak detection. I locate a spot on the floor, mark the spot and give the gentleman his options. {1} open the floor and do a spot repair, {2} re-route the leaking line overhead or {3} whole-house re-pipe. He opts to re-route the line overhead.

So I get to work opening up walls. My original leak detection revealed that the leak is indeed on a cold line. I locate some manifolds. Instead of cutting and capping each copper line to figure out what goes where, I opened one or two lines in the manifold nearest to the leak. Now I have to find the other end of the line that is leaking. So I go to another manifold in the master bathroom and figure that I am going to have to start cutting and capping copper lines in order to narrow things down. But I don't want to just start cutting and capping lines. This cold manifold had {4} 1/2" copper lines. No 3/4" lines to help in narrowing things down. I don't want to just pick any line, cut and cap to see by trial and error which line is the leaker. That to me is more work, extra copper to re-connect on the lines that aren't leaking.

So I connect a hose to the hot hose spigot at the washing machine and rig it up to the cold manifold. I get my infra red digital camera ready and place it in the master bath at the manifold where I'm trying to determine which line is coming in to feed the master bath manifold. Then I open the hot valve letting hot water back-feed to the master bath manifold. I sit and watch with the infra red and BAM! I immediately see which copper line is feeding that particular manifold without having to cut into the manifold. You could even feel with your hand, but with infra red it is 100% positive which pipe was the one I was needing to locate.

Then I made only {1} cut in that manifold instead of having to make several cuts.

If I get time later, I'll post some pictures.

Infra red is golden.


----------



## Tango

Tommy plumber said:


> Did another slab leak for a couple. Are you guys seeing CPVC used in new homes in your area? Around here, all the new homes are piped with CPVC water piping.
> 
> Plumbers up north laugh at CPVC, but here, it is in many new homes.


In our code cpvc is allowed for cold water only and above ground. Rural people like to use that for their houses and cottages, no plumber needed!. They always crack in dozen of places in non winterized cottages where spaghetti piping held with string and bent rusty nails is the norm.

High rise condos, supermarkets and such now use Ipex aquarise, another plastic product.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Tommy plumber said:


> Cuda and Alex {Gargalaxy} and of course for you other electronic leak detection guys, a tip that I came up with.
> 
> First some background: The gentleman owns a home here in FL but lives up North, Michigan I think. The cleaning lady heard water running in the house. I was called out to do an electronic leak detection. I locate a spot on the floor, mark the spot and give the gentleman his options. {1} open the floor and do a spot repair, {2} re-route the leaking line overhead or {3} whole-house re-pipe. He opts to re-route the line overhead.
> 
> So I get to work opening up walls. My original leak detection revealed that the leak is indeed on a cold line. I locate some manifolds. Instead of cutting and capping each copper line to figure out what goes where, I opened one or two lines in the manifold nearest to the leak. Now I have to find the other end of the line that is leaking. So I go to another manifold in the master bathroom and figure that I am going to have to start cutting and capping copper lines in order to narrow things down. But I don't want to just start cutting and capping lines. This cold manifold had {4} 1/2" copper lines. No 3/4" lines to help in narrowing things down. I don't want to just pick any line, cut and cap to see by trial and error which line is the leaker. That to me is more work, extra copper to re-connect on the lines that aren't leaking.
> 
> So I connect a hose to the hot hose spigot at the washing machine and rig it up to the cold manifold. I get my infra red digital camera ready and place it in the master bath at the manifold where I'm trying to determine which line is coming in to feed the master bath manifold. Then I open the hot valve letting hot water back-feed to the master bath manifold. I sit and watch with the infra red and BAM! I immediately see which copper line is feeding that particular manifold without having to cut into the manifold. You could even feel with your hand, but with infra red it is 100% positive which pipe was the one I was needing to locate.
> 
> Then I made only {1} cut in that manifold instead of having to make several cuts.
> 
> If I get time later, I'll post some pictures.
> 
> Infra red is golden.


 







...


----------



## Tommy plumber

Such a pain in the a$$ when I re-size a picture and then I can't find it on my PC to upload it here. Anyway here is a picture of the slab leak where I had to re-route a line overhead.


----------



## Tommy plumber

The pink "X" on the bathroom floor is where I heard the loudest sounds. But the customer didn't want a patch repair. It takes a little while to determine which lines are going where.


----------



## Tango

Master Mark said:


> i had an old lady this spring who had me come out to look
> at her slab leak on a sat afternoon ...basically a free estimate... she had the spot marked already and I got her permission to open up the drywall under her water heater in the garage to see if the pipe led to a manifold....
> 
> I found the pipe where it came up and gave her a price to tear up the floor or just re-p[ipe the line over head through the garage and eliminate the line all together......
> 
> She said that she would get back to me about this......
> 
> About 5 months has passed and I get a call from her complaining to me and expecting me to come back out to her home to repair the drywall in the garage where I made a hole... Of course a bunch of other plumbers used that hole to estimate this job......
> 
> I asked her who finally did the work for her and why did they not patch the hole for her and she barked at me it was none of my business who she had to the work........
> 
> I politely told her she had to be crazy and to go fuc/ herself



This highlighted quote is solid gold! I wish I could use it as my signature. 
:vs_rocking_banana:


----------



## Master Mark

Tango said:


> This highlighted quote is solid gold! I wish I could use it as my signature.
> :vs_rocking_banana:



she was a very special tight assed old German lady who shopped the job around... It took a lot of nerve to call me out of the blue 5 months later and expect me finish some other plumbers job...
She told me she was gonna bad mouth me all over the retirement complex... when I basically laughed at her and told her that she was nuts....:vs_OMG::vs_OMG:


On another note I plastered my sticker on her heater, water softener and furnace....:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


----------



## 5onthefloor

Master Mark said:


> she was a very special tight assed old German lady who shopped the job around... It took a lot of nerve to call me out of the blue 5 months later and expect me finish some other plumbers job...
> She told me she was gonna bad mouth me all over the retirement complex... when I basically laughed at her and told her that she was nuts....:vs_OMG::vs_OMG:
> 
> 
> On another note I plastered my sticker on her heater, water softener and furnace....:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


So your sticker will be there when the old bat kicks the bucket.... priceless!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Tommy plumber

*Another Florida slab leak times {2}.*

*The X on the slab was where I detected a hot spot. But the loudest sounds were where I drilled the pilot hole.*


----------



## Tommy plumber

...


----------



## Tommy plumber

*Look under the drop light in the top picture. Notice the {2} pipes crossing each other.*


----------



## Tommy plumber

First I drilled a small hole which told me that I was right on top of the leak. Or in this case, both leaks.

Then open the slab. I see {2} pipes touching. BAM! That is where the leaks were. A hot and cold pipe touching.

I went out last Friday to do the electronic leak detection. My investigation revealed {2} leaks.

Look in the image of the inspection mirror. I'm trying to upload the pictures of the pipes.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Check out the hot {1/2"}.


----------



## Tango

That's quite impressive.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Tango said:


> That's quite impressive.


 









It's a wonder the lady even got hot water in her bathrooms! The cold leak looks like it eroded the hot pipe underneath. 

My customer is resting easy tonight thanks to Tommy Plumber.......and my bank account is resting easy as well......:biggrin:


----------



## Tango

I noticed there were fittings under the slab. In our code fittings are not allowed under a slab and the copper has to be soft copper type K.

We don't have houses with slabs, the main water comes under the footing and straight up when it gets inside. When people hear a noise its usually the city valve that has a leak and it travels all over the house.

I do wonder how they are going to fix water pex/wirsbow pipes in slabs in high rise condos. That will be a nightmare. Even the electrical wire touches those pipes!


----------



## Tommy plumber

Tango said:


> I noticed there were fittings under the slab. In our code fittings are not allowed under a slab and the copper has to be soft copper type K.
> 
> We don't have houses with slabs, the main water comes under the footing and straight up when it gets inside. When people hear a noise its usually the city valve that has a leak and it travels all over the house.
> 
> I do wonder how they are going to fix water pex/wirsbow pipes in slabs in high rise condos. That will be a nightmare. Even the electrical wire touches those pipes!


 











When I was learning this trade, I was taught 'no fittings in the slab.' But I think years ago it was different. Fittings all over on copper. That can make re-routing a line difficult overhead for obvious reasons.

But even today, the new construction plumbers put fittings under the slab.


----------



## Tango

We'd have to use a special 35$ brass underground compression coupling to fix that.

Do you use lead free solder or sil-foss silver rod?


----------



## Debo22

Tommy plumber said:


> Check out the hot {1/2"}.


I’d hate to see the gas/water bills from last month


----------



## Debo22

Tango said:


> We'd have to use a special 35$ brass underground compression coupling to fix that.
> 
> Do you use lead free solder or sil-foss silver rod?


We have to braze joints with silver solder here.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Tango said:


> We'd have to use a special 35$ brass underground compression coupling to fix that.
> 
> Do you use lead free solder or sil-foss silver rod?


 










We're supposed to braze with silver brazing rods.....wink, wink, nod.....:wink:


----------



## Tango

Debo22 said:


> I’d hate to see the gas/water bills from last month


The way its eaten up it must of been piss_ing for a very long time. In our province we don't have water meters or water bills. Its included in our municipal taxes.

When we the French lost the war against the British we were given the poor land of rocks(Quebec) while they kept the more valuable arable land(Ontario). Little did they know over a century later that rocky contained lots of water! We have so much water that we sell hydro electricity to New York State and other states! We literally blow them out of the water! Pun intended! :wink:

I've personally worked on an electrical transfer station just to supply energy to New York.


----------



## Tango

Tommy plumber said:


> We're supposed to braze with silver brazing rods.....wink, wink, nod.....:wink:


Ahhhh...

Anyway the pipe must be so worn and thin you'd burn through.


----------



## 5onthefloor

Tango said:


> The way its eaten up it must of been piss_ing for a very long time. In our province we don't have water meters or water bills. Its included in our municipal taxes.
> 
> When we the French lost the war against the British we were given the poor land of rocks(Quebec) while they kept the more valuable arable land(Ontario). Little did they know over a century later that rocky contained lots of water! We have so much water that we sell hydro electricity to New York State and other states! We literally blow them out of the water! Pun intended! :wink:
> 
> I've personally worked on an electrical transfer station just to supply energy to New York.


I was about to say water supply there must not be an issue. Droughts here are common and our water is always metered. Wastewater charges directly correlate to water use so it's important for us to always conserve.
What is interesting is here if you can afford to drill a private well, the city can't stop you from doing so. Many 1%ers during the last drought would have wells drilled for their irrigation systems. City can't stop that except require an RPZ at the meter to protect against untreated water. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Tango

5onthefloor said:


> I was about to say water supply there must not be an issue. Droughts here are common and our water is always metered. Wastewater charges directly correlate to water use so it's important for us to always conserve.
> What is interesting is here if you can afford to drill a private well, the city can't stop you from doing so. Many 1%ers during the last drought would have wells drilled for their irrigation systems. City can't stop that except require an RPZ at the meter to protect against untreated water.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


So I guess you don't have factories or industries that use a lot of water in your area. There's a paper mill across the street which uses gazillions of litres of water each year. At one time we had over 10 paper mills in the area. They all shut down at some point as newspaper isn't as popular anymore. 

I worked on a shut down at the one across the street for a couple of nights and when I finished my last shift the news crew were filming outside, The next day they closed for 3 years abandoned. Its weird they paid a lot of money for repairs when they were closing within 24 hours. Eventually it was bought again, they had already sold some steam generators and the new buyer had to replace a lot of the piping as they froze over.

Another mill where I used to go do some shutdowns also closed after a week when I worked there and supposedly the bulldozer machinery tore it down in a couple of days, that mill was huge!

The other paper mill where I've been doing shut downs and new construction for over 20 years was closed down many times, bought and sold many times. Instead of doing paper now they use hardwood to make pulp and ship it to china to produce rayon for clothes.


----------



## Debo22

I had a pretty new corded Ryobi circular saw laying around in my garage for a few years that I rarely used. I was thinking about tossing it out because I use my cordless primarily. I decided I might as well see if it will work for cutting slabs. I put on a diamond blade and spray water on the blade with a pump sprayer while I’m running it. For slab leaks and under slab drain replacement it gives a much cleaner look than just breaking it with a jack hammer.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Debo22 said:


> I had a pretty new corded Ryobi circular saw laying around in my garage for a few years that I rarely used. I was thinking about tossing it out because I use my cordless primarily. I decided I might as well see if it will work for cutting slabs. I put on a diamond blade and spray water on the blade with a pump sprayer while I’m running it. For slab leaks and under slab drain replacement it gives a much cleaner look than just breaking it with a jack hammer.


 












That is awesome Debo. That is a great idea instead of a gas-powered demo saw. And no gasoline fumes or exhaust fumes. Probable quieter too. 

Much cleaner lines than a jackhammer. Looks good.


----------



## Tommy plumber

So I went out on another slab leak. I went out Saturday. The leak was under the master bath shower. 


M/B has {2} lavs, W/C, roman tub, and shower. A kind of wacky floor plan. The laundry room and kitchen share a wall w/ the master bath. {meaning ALOT of piping in a small area}.


I decided that opening the slab was not in my customer's best interest. So a re-route is in order. The minor problem was that the damn plumbers looped copper for everything instead of notching the wood stud on the 2nd rough to run a water line only a foot away! So for example, the laundry utility sink is literally a foot and a half away from the W/C, but they looped a line under the slab; then literally {1} foot away from the W/C is the ice maker feed for the fridge, but again, instead of just installing a foot of copper on the 2nd rough, they looped another 1/2" copper line for the fridge.


So with a re-route, I was having to cut and cap a lot more manifolds than normal due to so many damn manifolds! My plumber buddy and I were there Saturday from 2 PM until 7PM just doing diagnostic to figure out what copper line was leaking. And he's a licensed plumber with about 25 years experience like myself.


With cutting wood studs {since the studs appeared to have been installed right up close to the copper}, cutting, capping and re-connecting the copper lines, to removing the utility sink {to get into the wall}, we had our work cut out for us. 


Too many manifolds....


I know that the top-out has less work if more copper gets looped on the ground rough, but what a PITA just to isolate the leaking line. I charged for all the time, but we earned it.


Just sharing. I'm trying to invent some way to figure out where the lines go to; but without cutting the lines away from the manifold and blowing a shop vac through, there doesn't seem to be a way to know for sure. 


There should be an easier way to know where they go. We even tried tapping on a line while the other man listened in the next room. But that didn't work.


There has got to be an easier way.


PS: oh yeah, some of the manifolds were like an inch or {2} above the slab. When I did new construction, if the copper only made it a few inches above the slab, I soldered couplings on them to raise the manifold up to a decent working height.


----------



## Tango

Tommy plumber said:


> Just sharing. I'm trying to invent some way to figure out where the lines go to; but without cutting the lines away from the manifold and blowing a shop vac through, there doesn't seem to be a way to know for sure.
> 
> 
> There should be an easier way to know where they go. We even tried tapping on a line while the other man listened in the next room. But that didn't work.
> 
> 
> There has got to be an easier way.
> 
> 
> PS: oh yeah, some of the manifolds were like an inch or {2} above the slab. When I did new construction, if the copper only made it a few inches above the slab, I soldered couplings on them to raise the manifold up to a decent working height.



I don't know if it exist, I think for electrical yes but clamping a line and adding some type of voltage or frequency and using test probe at the other end to locate the line. On copper it would work. Pex you'd be out of luck.


----------



## Debo22

Tango said:


> I don't know if it exist, I think for electrical yes but clamping a line and adding some type of voltage or frequency and using test probe at the other end to locate the line. On copper it would work. Pex you'd be out of luck.


When I worked for a company they had that machine. Put a clamp on a copper line and use a unit similar to a metal detector to trace the line under slab. I used it a couple times but couldn’t figure out how to work it properly. It was a sales first company so there was no technical training, the less you know the more money you make for the company. They wanted you to sell the full repipe.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Debo22 said:


> When I worked for a company they had that machine. Put a clamp on a copper line and use a unit similar to a metal detector to trace the line under slab. I used it a couple times but couldn’t figure out how to work it properly. It was a sales first company so there was no technical training, the less you know the more money you make for the company. They wanted you to sell the full repipe.


 





















Yeah I know about line tracing equipment, but I'm not purchasing all that extra stuff, then learn how to use it, lug it around with me, etc.


I'll just keep cutting and capping lines; it's not like I don't charge for it. It's just that it can be a pain in the neck.


I enjoy slab leaks. Handymen definitely cannot do what my plumber buddy and I did Saturday. In fact, not even all plumbers can do it. A plumber who has no experience with slab leaks {like someone who strictly has done service work only} cannot locate a slab leak, then repair it.


It is a nice niche to have. I'm not bragging I'm just happy that I got into slab leaks and electronic leak detection.




Below are pictures from a slab leak that I did a while back. American Leak Detection did the locate since I didn't have my leak detection equipment yet.
Hey Tango,the customers were French Canadians who have a winter home down here.


----------



## Tommy plumber

The final picture of underneath after I repaired the slab leak which was under the kitchen. I wound up deleting a hose spigot since my customer didn't want to tear up wooden floors in his kitchen.


----------



## Tango

Damn that's a heck of a tough job taking out a sink cutting the bottom of the cabinet and chipping the floor and dig with a garden spade.

However that is some serious opportunity to make good money!

I just don't get why wouldn't you run the pipes in the walls instead of burying them when building a new house.

Talking about "snowbirds" I got a kitchen line drain call this winter from a couple who stayed down south for over a month or two. The accumulation in the drain line dried out, fell to the bottom of the stack and clogged the pipe. It's the same place I was feeding the cable and suddenly the cable was dancing in front of me in the window, it had gone up the vent! :vs_whistle:


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Tango said:


> Damn that's a heck of a tough job taking out a sink cutting the bottom of the cabinet and chipping the floor and dig with a garden spade.
> 
> However that is some serious opportunity to make good money!
> 
> I just don't get why wouldn't you run the pipes in the walls instead of burying them when building a new house.
> 
> Talking about "snowbirds" I got a kitchen line drain call this winter from a couple who stayed down south for over a month or two. The accumulation in the drain line dried out, fell to the bottom of the stack and clogged the pipe. It's the same place I was feeding the cable and suddenly the cable was dancing in front of me in the window, it had gone up the vent! :vs_whistle:


its an on slab house lines must go in concrete floor, probably easier to rough in lines coming up under sink instead of the wall, as also the concrete may extend upward as the beginning of the wall so rain water doesnt seep into the house, so how much concrete would the wall lines have to go through and then freeze in the winter..


----------



## Tango

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> its an on slab house lines must go in concrete floor, probably easier to rough in lines coming up under sink instead of the wall, as also the concrete may extend upward as the beginning of the wall so rain water doesnt seep into the house, so how much concrete would the wall lines have to go through and then freeze in the winter..


If it be my house on a slab I'd rise the main 36" from the floor and run the lines in the interior walls or in between floors if it's not a bungalow.

Nowadays you could run a pex line under the concrete floor in a bigger tube and all you had to do is pull and fish in a new line.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Tango said:


> If it be my house on a slab I'd rise the main 36" from the floor and run the lines in the interior walls or in between floors if it's not a bungalow.
> 
> Nowadays you could run a pex line under the concrete floor in a bigger tube and all you had to do is pull and fish in a new line.


you havent worked new construction have you?..this is the way its done, much cheaper than trying to get the pipes above ground, the builder doesnt care about 25+ years down the road, hes worried about his profit now..lol


----------



## Tommy plumber

Tango said:


> If it be my house on a slab I'd rise the main 36" from the floor and run the lines in the interior walls or in between floors if it's not a bungalow.
> 
> Nowadays you could run a pex line under the concrete floor in a bigger tube and all you had to do is pull and fish in a new line.


 





















We don't want it too easy. Remember, if it was easy, they'd have women and children doing it...….:wink:


----------



## Tango

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> you havent worked new construction have you?..this is the way its done, much cheaper than trying to get the pipes above ground, the builder doesnt care about 25+ years down the road, hes worried about his profit now..lol



New construction yes of course, it's mostly what I did commercial mostly. I was saying if I was building my own house....

I know all about the cheapest route they go for on materials and abusing their employees. A lot of cheating involved too.


----------



## The bear

Tommy plumber said:


> So I went out on another slab leak. I went out Saturday. The leak was under the master bath shower.
> 
> 
> M/B has {2} lavs, W/C, roman tub, and shower. A kind of wacky floor plan. The laundry room and kitchen share a wall w/ the master bath. {meaning ALOT of piping in a small area}.
> 
> 
> I decided that opening the slab was not in my customer's best interest. So a re-route is in order. The minor problem was that the damn plumbers looped copper for everything 8instead of notching the wood stud on the 2nd rough to run a water line only a foot away! So for example, the laundry utility sink is literally a foot and a half away from the W/C, but they looped a line under the slab; then literally {1} foot away from the W/C is the ice maker feed for the fridge, but again, instead of just installing a foot of copper on the 2nd rough, they looped another 1/2" copper line for the fridge.
> 
> 
> So with a re-route, I was having to cut and cap a lot more manifolds than normal due to so many damn manifolds! My plumber buddy and I were there Saturday from 2 PM until 7PM just doing diagnostic to figure out what copper line was leaking. And he's a licensed plumber with about 25 years experience like myself.
> 
> 
> With cutting wood studs {since the studs appeared to have been installed right up close to the copper}, cutting, capping and re-connecting the copper lines, to removing the utility sink {to get into the wall}, we had our work cut out for us.
> 
> 
> Too many manifolds....
> 
> 
> I know that the top-out has less work if more copper gets looped on the ground rough, but what a PITA just to isolate the leaking line. I charged for all the time, but we earned it.
> 
> 
> Just sharing. I'm trying to invent some way to figure out where the lines go to; but without cutting the lines away from the manifold and blowing a shop vac through, there doesn't seem to be a way to know for sure.
> 
> 
> There should be an easier way to know where they go. We even tried tapping on a line while the other man listened in the next room. But that didn't work.
> 
> 
> There has got to be an easier way.
> 
> 
> PS: oh yeah, some of the manifolds were like an inch or {2} above the slab. When I did new construction, if the copper only made it a few inches above the slab, I soldered couplings on them to raise the manifold up to a decent working height.


I carry one pipe locator on my van with my leak detection equipment . I determine approximately area of leak. Than 
hooking up and tracing the piping doesn't take very long. 
With all the different flooring choices in homes today, knowing the location of piping is important. You don't want to break out a tile floor and find out pipe was a foot away under carpet.


----------



## Tommy plumber

The bear said:


> I carry one pipe locator on my van with my leak detection equipment . I determine approximately area of leak. Than
> hooking up and tracing the piping doesn't take very long.
> With all the different flooring choices in homes today, knowing the location of piping is important. You don't want to break out a tile floor and find out pipe was a foot away under carpet.
















Thanks Bear. 


I'll have to look into line tracer equipment. When I bought my electronic leak detection equipment, I was on the fence whether or not to buy a line tracer too.


----------



## The bear

Tommy plumber said:


> The bear said:
> 
> 
> 
> I carry one pipe locator on my van with my leak detection equipment . I determine approximately area of leak. Than
> hooking up and tracing the piping doesn't take very long.
> With all the different flooring choices in homes today, knowing the location of piping is important. You don't want to break out a tile floor and find out pipe was a foot away under carpet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Bear.
> 
> 
> I'll have to look into line tracer equipment. When I bought my electronic leak detection equipment, Iwas on the fence whether or not to buy a line tracer too.
Click to expand...

When ready look at metrotech. I prefer some of their older units. Also not as expensive.


----------



## V.A Hydro-ooter

Has anyone used the line tracer that hooks up to the seesnake monitor? I've looked for them online but I've not been able to locate one. Or is that one of those Ridgid accessories that aren't, or never were, available? Just like the cable link to hook up the micro camera screen to the large reel to record.


----------



## Cuda

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> Has anyone used the line tracer that hooks up to the seesnake monitor? I've looked for them online but I've not been able to locate one. Or is that one of those Ridgid accessories that aren't, or never were, available? Just like the cable link to hook up the micro camera screen to the large reel to record.


The tracing lug on all the ridgid monitors is for any locator transmitter sold on the market, hook one lead from the transmitter to a ground stake and the other to the monitor lug, set the freq for whatever you want and you have just lit up the seesnake push cable to trace instead of the sonde in the camera or you can have the sonde on and trace both at the same time if you want. Even the oldest monitors from any brand that don't have the lug spot to connect you just wrapped the monitor to camera connection cable like 4 wraps around your fist and can use the current clamp from any transmitter and the same thing will happen


----------



## V.A Hydro-ooter

Thanks for that information. Do you have a preference on which brand is best? I will most likely be using it on water lines. Is it correct that I could wrap it around the snake cable and trace it that way?

The tracing lug on all the ridgid monitors is for any locator transmitter sold on the market, hook one lead from the transmitter to a ground stake and the other to the monitor lug, set the freq for whatever you want and you have just lit up the seesnake push cable to trace instead of the sonde in the camera or you can have the sonde on and trace both at the same time if you want. Even the oldest monitors from any brand that don't have the lug spot to connect you just wrapped the monitor to camera connection cable like 4 wraps around your fist and can use the current clamp from any transmitter and the same thing will happen[/QUOTE]


----------



## Cuda

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> Thanks for that information. Do you have a preference on which brand is best? I will most likely be using it on water lines. Is it correct that I could wrap it around the snake cable and trace it that way?
> 
> The tracing lug on all the ridgid monitors is for any locator transmitter sold on the market, hook one lead from the transmitter to a ground stake and the other to the monitor lug, set the freq for whatever you want and you have just lit up the seesnake push cable to trace instead of the sonde in the camera or you can have the sonde on and trace both at the same time if you want. Even the oldest monitors from any brand that don't have the lug spot to connect you just wrapped the monitor to camera connection cable like 4 wraps around your fist and can use the current clamp from any transmitter and the same thing will happen


[/QUOTE]
Has really nothing to do with seesnake, the best cheapest transmitter and locator is a vivax get, get a vloc2 with any 5 watt transmitter and you will be gold for years. They are a CA company but they are made in chine (what isn't) will do everything you need now and in the future cheap.


----------



## Tommy plumber




----------



## Tommy plumber




----------



## Tommy plumber

This is nothing extraordinary for plumbers who do slab leaks. But I posted it for those plumbers up North where there are a lot of basements and those plumbers don't get to see slab leaks.

Another company {ALD} did the locate and then I got called out to do the repair. I was just double-checking the locate with my equipment. On occasion, and it isn't often, but it has happened, I'll go out where someone else did the locate and they are way, way off. 


One time I show up with my jackhammer to break the slab. I break open the slab where the elec. leak detection technician marked the floor. Not only was there no leak where he marked, but there weren't even any pipes!......:vs_laugh: So, I made a hole in someone's concrete floor in the middle of their living room for nothing.


----------



## skoronesa

Cuda said:


> The tracing lug on all the ridgid monitors is for any locator transmitter sold on the market, hook one lead from the transmitter to a ground stake and the other to the monitor lug, set the freq for whatever you want and you have just lit up the seesnake push cable to trace instead of the sonde in the camera or you can have the sonde on and trace both at the same time if you want. Even the oldest monitors from any brand that don't have the lug spot to connect you just wrapped the monitor to camera connection cable like 4 wraps around your fist and can use the current clamp from any transmitter and the same thing will happen





V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> Thanks for that information. Do you have a preference on which brand is best? I will most likely be using it on water lines. Is it correct that I could wrap it around the snake cable and trace it that way?






I don't know about you guys and what you have for equipment but let me tell you something important. I have the ridgid seesnake cs6 pak 100' camera. I also have the yellow ridgid locator with 4 antennae that comes with the transmitter pack and inductive clamp.


When I connect the transmitter to the antenna lug on the back of the camera it freaks out and crashes and I have to take out the battery to restart it.


I haven't tried the inductive clamp but at this point I am not willing too.






.


----------



## Debo22

Tommy plumber said:


> IMG 54501 - YouTube


That doesn’t look like it’s brazed with silver solder, get him GAN!


----------



## ken53

Debo22 said:


> That doesn’t look like it’s brazed with silver solder, get him GAN!


Defect here no solder joints Underground allowed.


----------



## The Dane

ken53 said:


> Defect here no solder joints Underground allowed.


I second this.

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


----------



## MASTRPLUMB

According to UPC spot repairs can be made using silver solder and brazing 
the joints, 
but as always it is up yo the AHJ ! :biggrin:


----------



## Tommy plumber

I had {2} slab leaks last week. 

This one was underneath the kitchen sink. 

The 1st trip out to his home, I did the electronic leak detection. Then, the 2nd trip was to do the repair.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Another picture.


----------



## Tommy plumber




----------



## GAN

OOPS........ Did you miss it on the first locate??????


----------



## Tommy plumber

GAN said:


> OOPS........ Did you miss it on the first locate??????









Yes. I was off, but I tell my customers that elec. leak detection is not like Superman's X-ray vision; I can't see the pipes through the concrete. We as elec. leak detection plumbers have to listen to what our equipment tells us then interpret that to locate the burst pipe.

So I couldn't {or didn't want to} cut the bottom of his cabinet when I did the elec. leak detection.

After breaking a hole in front of the kitchen cabinet, I turned on the water and it took about a minute for water to start entering the hole. So I knew that I was very close.

Even Amer. Leak Detection will tell customers that they'll be within 1 foot. So there is a margin of error of about a foot or so.



Side note. I did a slab leak repair at a local animal hospital last month. Amer. Leak Detection did the locate. They were off by about 10'. I jackhammered the slab on their blue X, and not only was the soil not wet, but there weren't even any pipes there....LOL. And the vet was charged $500.00! I eventually found the leak and repaired it for the veterinarian.


----------



## Tommy plumber

For those who point out, and rightly so, that the code requires copper to copper joints to be brazed below slab, I will point out that they soft-soldered all the joints below slab way back in the day.

And the joints are still holding {the tee is a 3/4"x 3/4"x1/2"}. It was the pipe itself that burst not the joint.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Then I have to do this repair next week. 

This customer has a hot leak under the laundry room floor. The hot water is also bleeding under the garage floor which is adjacent to the laundry room.

Slab leaks are very un-nerving for people. Some are nearly in a state of panic due to a slab leak.
Infra red camera picked up 88 degree hot spots on the floor.


UGH!!!! Such a pain that the damn pictures are always rotated in the wrong direction. Sorry guys.


----------



## GAN

Well heck, next time take those dang X-ray glasses along........:wink:

Not a fun task. Do you also use a stethoscope to try to fine tune the location?


----------



## Tango

Wow, breaking up the floor and not destroying the whole cabinet? That is some precision surgery! :vs_laugh:

And doing that type of work here I'd be seriously rich.


----------



## skoronesa

Tommy plumber said:


> For those who point out, and rightly so, that the code requires copper to copper joints to be brazed below slab, I will point out that they soft-soldered all the joints below slab way back in the day.
> 
> And the joints are still holding {the tee is a 3/4"x 3/4"x1/2"}. It was the pipe itself that burst not the joint.





You say burst, do you mean erosion or corrosion? I am sure it didn't freeze!


How high is the pressure there?






.


----------



## Tommy plumber

skoronesa said:


> You say burst, do you mean erosion or corrosion? I am sure it didn't freeze!
> 
> 
> How high is the pressure there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .








Burst is a term that gets people's attention....LOL.

Yes, I mean corrosion. Probably the acid flux back in the day or not reaming pipe or soil acidity? 

Yes Tango, slab leaks are profitable jobs.
Our city pressure is running at about 50 psi.


----------



## skoronesa

Tommy plumber said:


> Burst is a term that gets people's attention....LOL.
> 
> Yes, I mean corrosion. Probably the acid flux back in the day or not reaming pipe or soil acidity?
> 
> Yes Tango, slab leaks are profitable jobs.
> Our city pressure is running at about 50 psi.







Only 50psi? Are there ever flow issues? Here "city" pressure is between 70-95psi, some places near pump stations it can reach 120psi.




50psi sounds great as long as the piping is sized properly under the street.








.


----------



## Debo22

Tommy plumber said:


> For those who point out, and rightly so, that the code requires copper to copper joints to be brazed below slab, I will point out that they soft-soldered all the joints below slab way back in the day.
> 
> And the joints are still holding {the tee is a 3/4"x 3/4"x1/2"}. It was the pipe itself that burst not the joint.


I did one years ago where I located the leak under the slab perfectly on top of it. Busted a hole about a foot square. Broke out the oxygen/acetylene rig and brazed in a new piece. Turned on the water and water was pouring out of my hole from about a foot away. Busted up more of the slab and found a tee someone soft soldered in and I melted the sh!t out of it with brazing so close.


----------



## skoronesa

Debo22 said:


> I did one years ago where I located the leak under the slab perfectly on top of it. Busted a hole about a foot square. Broke out the oxygen/acetylene rig and brazed in a new piece. Turned on the water and water was pouring out of my hole from about a foot away. Busted up more of the slab and found a tee someone soft soldered in and I melted the sh!t out of it with brazing so close.







Well clearly Miss Johnson we have localized chemical corrosion causing multiple leaks....:biggrin:






.


----------



## Debo22

skoronesa said:


> Well clearly Miss Johnson we have localized chemical corrosion causing multiple leaks....:biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


That one took me a second to get then started laughing


----------



## 89plumbum

Debo22 said:


> Tommy plumber said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those who point out, and rightly so, that the code requires copper to copper joints to be brazed below slab, I will point out that they soft-soldered all the joints below slab way back in the day.
> 
> And the joints are still holding {the tee is a 3/4"x 3/4"x1/2"}. It was the pipe itself that burst not the joint.
> 
> 
> 
> I did one years ago where I located the leak under the slab perfectly on top of it. Busted a hole about a foot square. Broke out the oxygen/acetylene rig and brazed in a new piece. Turned on the water and water was pouring out of my hole from about a foot away. Busted up more of the slab and found a tee someone soft soldered in and I melted the sh!t out of it with brazing so close.
Click to expand...

I rarely soldered or brazed underground in the central Florida area because of weakening adjacent piping. One time I made a repair with mueller couplings. I always wait around a bit after repairs to make sure everything is good. About 5am the next morning my boss calls me in a panic saying the house is flooded again and that my repair must have separated.

I was thinking on the way over that there was probably a previous repair down the line that came apart, but when I got there, it turned out to be another pinhole about 6’ away. I could not explain why there were no signs of this leak the day before? I was just happy it wasn’t my leak.


----------



## Tango

89plumbum said:


> I rarely soldered or brazed underground in the central Florida area because of weakening adjacent piping. One time I made a repair with mueller couplings. I always wait around a bit after repairs to make sure everything is good. About 5am the next morning my boss calls me in a panic saying the house is flooded again and that my repair must have separated.
> 
> I was thinking on the way over that there was probably a previous repair down the line that came apart, but when I got there, it turned out to be another pinhole about 6’ away. I could not explain why there were no signs of this leak the day before? I was just happy it wasn’t my leak.


When you disturb pipes you loosen the sediments that are blocking the pinhole. Like removing a plug. I see this on occasion when the copper pipe are green pockmarked.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

89plumbum said:


> I rarely soldered or brazed underground in the central Florida area because of weakening adjacent piping. One time I made a repair with mueller couplings. I always wait around a bit after repairs to make sure everything is good. About 5am the next morning my boss calls me in a panic saying the house is flooded again and that my repair must have separated.
> 
> I was thinking on the way over that there was probably a previous repair down the line that came apart, but when I got there, it turned out to be another pinhole about 6’ away. I could not explain why there were no signs of this leak the day before? I was just happy it wasn’t my leak.



my friend had his house raised in long beach city, an area by me, I put a new water main in using K copper, about a good 6ft down, the old main was about 3 ft down and must have frozen a dozen or so times, it was about 100ft from curb to house and about 20 of the mueller couplings and a mix of M and L pipe..what a hack job...


----------



## sparky

Tommy plumber said:


> Burst is a term that gets people's attention....LOL.
> 
> Yes, I mean corrosion. Probably the acid flux back in the day or not reaming pipe or soil acidity?
> 
> Yes Tango, slab leaks are profitable jobs.
> Our city pressure is running at about 50 psi.


Tommy,what would you charge total for a job like this???


----------



## Will

I do quite a few slab leaks, but I sub out locates for the most part. I have a $5,000 dollar Metrotech but I'm not the best at locating. Sub contractors charge around $350 for locate, I charge usually 1000-2500 to bust out floor make repair and put concrete back.


----------



## Cuda

Just takes practice to build up confidence and a few missed locates lol


----------



## skoronesa

sparky said:


> Tommy,what would you charge total for a job like this???





That's classified information, if he told you he'd have to bill you.






.


----------



## Tommy plumber

Will said:


> I do quite a few slab leaks, but I sub out locates for the most part. I have a $5,000 dollar Metrotech but I'm not the best at locating. Sub contractors charge around $350 for locate, I charge usually 1000-2500 to bust out floor make repair and put concrete back.











There's a video made by General Wire showing how to do leak detection. When I was getting ready to buy my elec. leak detection equipment, I was looking at General's Gen-Ear. But when I saw a video of a Washington state plumber using Sub-Surface equipment, I bought the Sub-Surface instead.

Anyway, in the video by General, they show how to use their equipment. But the formula is the same no matter what equipment is used. 

On my first couple of leak detections, I was way, way off....:crying:

Alex {Garalaxy here on PZ} lives not too far from me. I called him saying, "Alex, HELP!!" And he drove to me on one and trained me, and also did the locate for me. Thanks again Alex. I really appreciate the help brother.

When I first got the equipment, I had not seen the General Pipe video, so I was shooting in the dark. But after being shown how to use the equipment properly, now it's not a big deal.


----------



## sparky

Tommy plumber said:


> There's a video made by General Wire showing how to do leak detection. When I was getting ready to buy my elec. leak detection equipment, I was looking at General's Gen-Ear. But when I saw a video of a Washington state plumber using Sub-Surface equipment, I bought the Sub-Surface instead.
> 
> Anyway, in the video by General, they show how to use their equipment. But the formula is the same no matter what equipment is used.
> 
> On my first couple of leak detections, I was way, way off....:crying:
> 
> Alex {Garalaxy here on PZ} lives not too far from me. I called him saying, "Alex, HELP!!" And he drove to me on one and trained me, and also did the locate for me. Thanks again Alex. I really appreciate the help brother.
> 
> When I first got the equipment, I had not seen the General Pipe video, so I was shooting in the dark. But after being shown how to use the equipment properly, now it's not a big deal.


So it actually works???my leak detection equipment is a pointed probe that I stick down in the ground till I find water


----------



## MACPLUMB777

I used to do a lot of leak detection back in SO. CA. and make the money doing 
the repairs, I made a point of letting it go for at least 24 hours,
to make sure my repair held and if their was any other leaks, then I would
replace the concrete, :biggrin:


----------



## MACPLUMB777

I have some one in the Dallas, TEXAS area that has had his third or forth
slab leak looking for a PLUMBER to do a total repipe of his house
PM me and I will give you the contact Information :biggrin:


----------



## sparky

MACPLUMB777 said:


> I have some one in the Dallas, TEXAS area that has his third or forth
> slab leak looking for a PLUMBER to do a total repipe of his house
> PM me and I will give you the contact Information :biggrin:


Tango is your man,hop on a plane and get some sunshine tango:devil3:


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

sparky said:


> Tango is your man,hop on a plane and get some sunshine tango:devil3:


 I think if he ever got a taste of the good life here in the USA he would NEVER go back to canada....to have to live it here and not just visit a short time or read about it to really get the feeling...
and you would easily double or triple your income and then some...


----------



## Will

Tommy plumber said:


> There's a video made by General Wire showing how to do leak detection. When I was getting ready to buy my elec. leak detection equipment, I was looking at General's Gen-Ear. But when I saw a video of a Washington state plumber using Sub-Surface equipment, I bought the Sub-Surface instead.
> 
> Anyway, in the video by General, they show how to use their equipment. But the formula is the same no matter what equipment is used.
> 
> On my first couple of leak detections, I was way, way off....:crying:
> 
> Alex {Garalaxy here on PZ} lives not too far from me. I called him saying, "Alex, HELP!!" And he drove to me on one and trained me, and also did the locate for me. Thanks again Alex. I really appreciate the help brother.
> 
> When I first got the equipment, I had not seen the General Pipe video, so I was shooting in the dark. But after being shown how to use the equipment properly, now it's not a big deal.


I'll have to check it out. My issue is my hearing ain't the best. The company that makes my unit sells a Gas Tracer, but never bought one. Suppose to locate leak by smelling the gas.


----------



## MACPLUMB777

Will said:


> I'll have to check it out. My issue is my hearing ain't the best. The company that makes my unit sells a Gas Tracer, but never bought one. Suppose to locate leak by smelling the gas.


Will 
that was the same problem that I had with doing locates, for a while I had
my brother working as my Apprentice, so I showed him how it works
and never missed a locate :biggrin:


----------



## Tango

sparky said:


> Tango is your man,hop on a plane and get some sunshine tango:devil3:





ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I think if he ever got a taste of the good life here in the USA he would NEVER go back to canada....to have to live it here and not just visit a short time or read about it to really get the feeling...
> and you would easily double or triple your income and then some...


Yes! I've been wanting a Lamborghini for a while...:biggrin:

Seriously it looks awesome, the exhaust sound is orgasmic but the deal breaker are horrendously priced parts.

Oops I'm derailing Tommy. What the heck here's a pic. 

Back on topic, those slab leaks blows my 1 hour service calls way out of the water. 



.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Tango said:


> Yes! I've been wanting a Lamborghini for a while...:biggrin:
> 
> Seriously it looks awesome, the exhaust sound is orgasmic but the deal breaker are horrendously priced parts.
> 
> Oops I'm derailing Tommy. What the heck here's a pic.
> 
> Back on topic, those slab leaks blows my 1 hour service calls way out of the water.
> 
> 
> 
> .


honestly that car does nothing for me..I wouldnt buy it for any price...just not my style...just like I would never buy a rolex watch..my casio g shock works great..that show off expensive stuff doesnt cut it with me, I think im more utilitarian...


----------



## sparky

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I think if he ever got a taste of the good life here in the USA he would NEVER go back to canada....to have to live it here and not just visit a short time or read about it to really get the feeling...
> and you would easily double or triple your income and then some...


Agreeeeeee


----------



## Cuda

2015 this thread started, in the 6 years that have gone by leak detection has made some pretty cool advances. One of my favorites now is the Sebakmt Corrolux C-3. It is a leak corrolator but has other functions the one that is neat for slab leaks or any leaks is a mode called Pinpoint Leak where you simply place 3 sensors (microphones) or up to 8 if you have a large area to do on the ground over the pipes path. They are connected to the main user unit by wireless. You step back away from the suspected leak area (to get rid of the noise that you create moving around) and let it listen. A minute later it will have found the leak by figuring out what constant noise it could hear (the leak) then at what HZ it was found at then will show you which sensor is the closest to the leak. You then can use the headphones and move them around to find the exact spot. Deepest I have found with concrete as the top surface is 7 feet. This unit does a lot of other things but they are more for outside locates. GPS is set to each sensor so you can view a google map of an outside leak locate it is pretty cool to.


----------

