# Service



## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Ok so I had a talk with my mp at the company. I had asked him for a raise I been there for about a yr. what I got from him was .. "The opportunity to run calls" and make money. I have always been on the install team. This is a whole different ball game. It is out of my comfort zone... 

Any tips and trick from the pros is accepted


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

2nd year running calls with a Jman correct?


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

No jman just my self I was with a am doing install


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

I was with a jman


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

So many things could be said about service work and the list of tips would run on and on. 

Important things to remember in service. 

1. Pay attention and gather facts: Listen to what the customer is telling you. While they are not plumbers they do live in the home and can tell you when the problem started, what it used to work like, and what may have been done to cause a problem. 

1a. Knowing what previous plumbers have done might be a huge help if this is a reoccurring problem. 

2. Investigate thoroughly: Time spent gathering information and facts can save a lot of wasted time doing things that are unnecessary. Start your own investigation from the beginning. Don't let a customer bully you into doing work that is a contradiction to what you know is right. 

3. Keep notes: A notepad of experiences, advice from others, and things you learn can go a long way to saving you time and stress. 

4. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!!: Cannot stress this enough. 

5. Follow up and follow through: Just because you have fixed the immediate problem does not mean you have actually taken care of what is creating the issue. Why does the drain back up? Why is the copper getting pinholes? Why isn't there enough hot water? 

6. Ask for advice: Don't be afraid to step outside and call a more experienced plumber for advice on a particular problem. Its better for the customer and the business that the problem be fixed right the first time. 

The list could go on, but I have to leave soon. :laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> Ok so I had a talk with my mp at the company. I had asked him for a raise I been there for about a yr. what I got from him was .. "The opportunity to run calls" and make money. I have always been on the install team. This is a whole different ball game. It is out of my comfort zone... Any tips and trick from the pros is accepted


L7,
As a second year, it would be a HUGE mistake for you to be sent on service calls alone. The only thing worse than that would be if you have been working primarily on installs and have no service training. 

To quote Charlie Greer, your pay raise will become effective when you do. I may not be reading your OP correctly but I get the sense that is exactly what your employer is telling you.

You have two choices (neither is easy, but that is why we call it work)...

1. Become more effective on the work you do now so that your employer makes more money. He has to make enough for your pay raise and some for himself. If you earn him an extra $40 per week, don't be foolish enough to expect a $1hr raise.

2. If you are "REALLY" underpaid (you probably are not underpaid) then find work elsewhere.

You will notice that you jumping into a service truck to run calls alone is NOT on the list.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> 4. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT





Leach713 said:


> I have always been on the install team. This is a whole different ball game. It is out of my comfort zone...


There's your answer. You must be confident in your troubleshooting skills. That may take you a few more years.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

New construction plumbing as opposed to service; in my opinion, they are almost [2] different trades. 

In service, you will become intimately acquainted with the joys of drain cleaning, less-than-friendly customers, customers who object to price, customers who lie to you, condos that have more locked doors than a prison, and you will be diagnosing problems that you never saw while doing new constuction.

For example, I did new construction for years prior to going into service work. In new construction, I installed literally hundreds of water heaters. But when in service, I had to learn how to check the OHMs on electric W/H elements, which is something I never learned in new construction. 

There is definitely a learning curve, and can be a little steep.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Thanks for the reply 


I feel like my company just wants me in a service , just to run calls. They also pay service guys with commission on what the job is worth. I can go a full day running calls and I don't sell big job I don't get jack.to them running call is my raise. 

All I want to do just plumb and learn the trade better and earn the money as I go.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> Thanks for the reply I feel like my company just wants me in a service , just to run calls. They also pay service guys with commission on what the job is worth. I can go a full day running calls and I don't sell big job I don't get jack.to them running call is my raise. All I want to do just plumb and learn the trade better and earn the money as I go.


Will they pay the fines if you are nabbed by an inspector?


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Will they pay the fines if you are nabbed by an inspector?


No I doubt it , but I do have my RUI


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

I quit today and start my new job Monday doing luxury apartments new construction.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> I quit today and start my new job Monday doing luxury apartments new construction.


No notice?


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> No notice?


What trade you work in , most guys don't give notice . Just like employers don't give notice before they fire you. Notice is given for and by the guys higher up in the trade . Now I'm not saying giving notice isn't a good thing because me and you both know it is , especially if you don't want to burn bridges .


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> No notice?


In any other circumstances I would put my two weeks.

But I found out what why the company was so eager for me to runs calls.

1. They wanted for me to go pop drains and sell camera , but if I sell camera they were going to send a Sr plumber to sell the job and I only get 3% while he gets the numbers and let his friend get the install while the installer get 8% 

2. If I would leave an estimate on any job the would send a Sr plumber to sell the job behind my back. And I wouldn't get scrap

3. They didn't give me a better offer. 

I was yes Man at that company
Plus I'm only a 2nd yr apprentice I have no business running services call 
Not this early in the game.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Leach713 said:


> In any other circumstances I would put my two weeks.
> 
> But I found out what why the company was so eager for me to runs calls.
> 
> ...


It still wouldn't have been a bad idea to give 2 weeks notice, as for running service calls on drains and camera work go get your drain cleaning license then you and the company will be covered.


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## SERVICEPLUM (Nov 21, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> New construction plumbing as opposed to service; in my opinion, they are almost [2] different trades. In service, you will become intimately acquainted with the joys of drain cleaning, less-than-friendly customers, customers who object to price, customers who lie to you, condos that have more locked doors than a prison, and you will be diagnosing problems that you never saw while doing new constuction. For example, I did new construction for years prior to going into service work. In new construction, I installed literally hundreds of water heaters. But when in service, I had to learn how to check the OHMs on electric W/H elements, which is something I never learned in new construction. There is definitely a learning curve, and can be a little steep.



I agree with Tommy, service and new construction are two different trades in my opinion also. As a second year plumber your manager shouldn't even be offering you a service position. Stay in new construction LEARN LEARN LEARN before even thinking about doing service. Two year plumber is asking for nothing but call backs.

Call backs on commission means going back for free!


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

justme said:


> It still wouldn't have been a bad idea to give 2 weeks notice, as for running service calls on drains and camera work go get your drain cleaning license then you and the company will be covered.


Yes it does sound like a good offer but not on paper plus I want to be more than just a drain cleaner and residential utilities installer.( which I have both) I can do these for two more yrs then get my journeyman and then what. Journeyman that only knows how to do pop drains and install grounds because I decided to take one for the team(my company)

Now if I was a jman that was season I would only do sewer because that where the money is at in service 

There to many variables to this equation and I did what's right for me and the fam.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

I would have to run plumbing call to not just drain cleaning


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## SERVICEPLUM (Nov 21, 2013)

Sewer jobs are not the only place money is in service, a 150 ft sewer depending in how deep and such could take 2-3 days for a average cost if $5000 witch you have two or three people on a job... In 3 days you could run on average 10-15 calls depending on the call witch would be close too the same total price collected with less stress and getting in front if customers to build relationships with the customer! Witch leads to good referrals and repeat business! I'll take the 3 days if running calls over a sewer anytime!


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> In any other circumstances I would put my two weeks. But I found out what why the company was so eager for me to runs calls. 1. They wanted for me to go pop drains and sell camera , but if I sell camera they were going to send a Sr plumber to sell the job and I only get 3% while he gets the numbers and let his friend get the install while the installer get 8% 2. If I would leave an estimate on any job the would send a Sr plumber to sell the job behind my back. And I wouldn't get scrap 3. They didn't give me a better offer. I was yes Man at that company Plus I'm only a 2nd yr apprentice I have no business running services call Not this early in the game.


For what it's worth, legit personal reasons aside....

1. A second year apprentice is not in a position to understand how the company works, or what the owner/manager is trying to accomplish with what he is doing. 

Your job is to learn and do whatever in the hell you are asked to do until you know enough to work unsupervised, be happy with a paycheck because in the grand scheme of things you don't actually deserve it when you consider what they are giving you as far as life long knowledge and skill. 

2. Pay your dues. Everyone and I mean everyone has dues to pay. If and when you get a license then you have some leverage to negotiate. 

3. Better offer???? WTF is better than getting paid to learn a skill that will get you well paid for the reminder of your working life, and keep you employed when others are wondering where their next meal is coming from because the factory they worked in got shut down?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

SERVICEPLUM said:


> Sewer jobs are not the only place money is in service, a 150 ft sewer depending in how deep and such could take 2-3 days for a average cost if $5000 witch you have two or three people on a job... In 3 days you could run on average 10-15 calls depending on the call witch would be close too the same total price collected with less stress and getting in front if customers to build relationships with the customer! Witch leads to good referrals and repeat business! I'll take the 3 days if running calls over a sewer anytime!


This coming from the same guy using fence post for gas pipings??


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> In any other circumstances I would put my two weeks. But I found out what why the company was so eager for me to runs calls.
> 
> 1. They wanted for me to go pop drains and sell camera , but if I sell camera they were going to send a Sr plumber to sell the job and I only get 3% while he gets the numbers and let his friend get the install while the installer get 8%
> 2. If I would leave an estimate on any job the would send a Sr plumber to sell the job behind my back. And I wouldn't get scrap
> ...


You seriously based leaving your employer high and dry with no notice because sr. licensed employees get perks not available to you?

Sheesh. 

I mean this in the most loving and respectful way...your line of reasoning is pretty lame.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

I work hard and bust my a'' I did anything my supervisor ask me to do they said jump I jump 
I deserve a dollar or two raise or what ever the case maybe

I have save the company lots of head aches when they ask me to go fix 40ft truck line because a License plumber messed it up

Or when I went to a warranty call when a License plumber just put in 60ft sewer was already backing up. I fixed it

Or when a license plumber sold a drain clean with a jetter but didn't know how to use it 
Or maybe when I was 8ft deep in hole tapping in a new 6x4 wye for license plumber because he didn't know how do it and they ask me to go install it because No one else wanted to go help him . 
Do I need to say more..

I'm still an apprentice and I want to learn the trade not the sales 
I tip my hat off to the guy that can sale work but when they can't install it


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## RaffyCA (Oct 22, 2013)

You did great. Don't let these "mastodons of plumbing" exploit you. Good job!


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

SERVICEPLUM said:


> Sewer jobs are not the only place money is in service, a 150 ft sewer depending in how deep and such could take 2-3 days for a average cost if $5000 witch you have two or three people on a job... In 3 days you could run on average 10-15 calls depending on the call witch would be close too the same total price collected with less stress and getting in front if customers to build relationships with the customer! Witch leads to good referrals and repeat business! I'll take the 3 days if running calls over a sewer anytime!


Lol 150ft sewer replacement for 16000+


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> I work hard and bust my a'' I did anything my supervisor ask me to do they said jump I jump I deserve a dollar or two raise or what ever the case maybe I have save the company lots of head aches when they ask me to go fix 40ft truck line because a License plumber messed it up Or when I went to a warranty call when a License plumber just put in 60ft sewer was already backing up. I fixed it Or when a license plumber sold a drain clean with a jetter but didn't know how to use it Or maybe when I was 8ft deep in hole tapping in a new 6x4 wye for license plumber because he didn't know how do it and they ask me to go install it because No one else wanted to go help him . Do I need to say more.. I'm still an apprentice and I want to learn the trade not the sales I tip my hat off to the guy that can sale work but when they can't install it


Does the state your in not have a graduated pay scale requirement? You've never received a raise in the two years you worked there? 

No matter what the rational arguing the decision made is a long battle amongst most on here and have paid their dues and put their time in with minimal complaints. 

It's not so much the changing of jobs it's the manner in which you left, and certainly the entitled attitude.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Yeah are supposed to get one first 2 months then six months then every yr depending on you performance 
Been the


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

If I decides to go back tomorrow I would be hired. 
I didn't quit and told every one to f""" off I when and put in a 40ft sewer with a city tie in them went to the shop and drop of my keys end of story


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

RaffyCA said:


> You did great. Don't let these "mastodons of plumbing" exploit you. Good job!


Mastodons of plumbing? Seriously? 

If I had any feelings left, they might have actually been hurt. :laughing:


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Mastodons of plumbing? Seriously? If I had any feelings left, they might have actually been hurt. :laughing:


An attempt at sarcasm. 

Remember you have a maintenance man and a green apprentice giving each other advice. Who's gonna survive that in the plumbing world?

Us "Mastodons" will do just fine


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> If I decides to go back tomorrow I would be hired.....


**read with Popeye accent** :jester:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

justme said:


> What trade you work in , most guys don't give notice...


The Professional Plumber trade. A trade that has sadly been gutted by selfish employees AND selfish employers. A vast number of our brethren view labor laws, tax laws, ethics, and overall professionalism as cute stories from old-timers that have no place in our industry today. They are short sighted and lack pride in the effort needed to "do it right". 

The result? 

Employers that ignore safety concerns, refuse to train, charge the "going rate", and think nothing of paying employees as subcontractors to avoid their responsibilities to taxes, worker's comp, unemployment, and overtime pay. Journeymen that think side jobbing is a right of passage and a reward for knowing how to solder pipe. Apprentices that are offended that they really do have to start at the bottom and seasoned professionals are getting benefits for being licensed but the apprentice in turn, does not. 

And, employees in general that have no regard nor remembrance of the effort needed to provide their paid education.


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## RaffyCA (Oct 22, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Mastodons of plumbing? Seriously? If I had any feelings left, they might have actually been hurt. :laughing:


  was not in my most sober conditions yesterday night.


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## RaffyCA (Oct 22, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> An attempt at sarcasm. Remember you have a maintenance man and a green apprentice giving each other advice. Who's gonna survive that in the plumbing world? Us "Mastodons" will do just fine


 Nothing personal, dear friend.  One day we will be mastodons too. Don't forget that even mastodon was an embryo at the beginning. And we will teach and talk sarcastically about embryos like me and Mr. Leach the same way.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Leach713 said:


> If I decides to go back tomorrow I would be hired. I didn't quit and told every one to f""" off I when and put in a 40ft sewer with a city tie in them went to the shop and drop of my keys end of story


Not with my shop you wouldn't. 
Anyone is free to go at anytime. There is a respectable way to leave. You walk in and drop your keys off with no notice and you will not work for me again. You may not think so but you burned a bridge. These things have a way of coming back to haunt you. If you were in the union that would get you a non eligible for rehire and in most cases an exit from the program. 
Your an Apprentice and have no right to make demands. You can ask using the proper protocol but with demands your out of line. 

On the sewer lines you worked on how did those projects come about? Did you set them up? How were they priced?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

HSI said:


> Not with my shop you wouldn't. Anyone is free to go at anytime. There is a respectable way to leave. You walk in and drop your keys off with no notice and you will not work for me again. You may not think so but you burned a bridge. These things have a way of coming back to haunt you. If you were in the union that would get you a non eligible for rehire and in most cases an exit from the program. Your an Apprentice and have no right to make demands. You can ask using the proper protocol but with demands your out of line. On the sewer lines you worked on how did those projects come about? Did you set them up? How were they priced?


In other words...


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## Ryan M (Dec 8, 2013)

You have to do what's best for you call around and look for a better pay if you want it badly then you have to get it. Once someone is willing to pay you more go to your boss and tell him you leaving unless you increase wage to beat x. Sometimes companies don't make as much as you think its hard for the small shops. It really boils down to your relationship with your employer, everyone is in it to get paid and you need to look out for number one. If your boss is a dick then its probably a healthy change. I've worked for 3 service companies in the best lets say I've had a range of experience from each one. Some people mirco manage and others don't my boss at this time is a great guy, he could cut my pay and I'd still work for him. The quality of life is great, as long as the work gets done on time I can do what I want how I want to do it and he's not going to nit-pick or swet the small stuff. Some people don't respect employees, I'm a man before anything you have to take **** but remember once you find another job leave its that easy. People are always looking for good people.

Bottom line, if you don't like something in your life change it. People who think they can leverage you are going to be the ones at a loss spiting hairs with good employees.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

HSI said:


> Not with my shop you wouldn't. Anyone is free to go at anytime. There is a respectable way to leave. You walk in and drop your keys off with no notice and you will not work for me again. You may not think so but you burned a bridge. These things have a way of coming back to haunt you. If you were in the union that would get you a non eligible for rehire and in most cases an exit from the program. Your an Apprentice and have no right to make demands. You can ask using the proper protocol but with demands your out of line. On the sewer lines you worked on how did those projects come about? Did you set them up? How were they priced?


What the hell is up with everyone their respectable way of leaving. I just quit no big deal. 
I never been fires from any job because i never gave any one a hard time or a reason to be fire.

Who said I did demands ? I simply ask 2x times in two different occasions.

Most sewer line I put in I was helping my Jman other times I doing other warranty jobs.


Most sewer where price by footage 70ft might be 7k or a 70' with a city tie I'm might be 10k and up


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> What the hell is up with everyone their respectable way of leaving. I just quit no big deal. I never been fires from any job because i never gave any one a hard time or a reason to be fire. Who said I did demands ? I simply ask 2x times in two different occasions. Most sewer line I put in I was helping my Jman other times I doing other warranty jobs. Most sewer where price by footage 70ft might be 7k or a 70' with a city tie I'm might be 10k and up


Good advice and reason has been offered. Always leave in the best way possible, burning bridges is not good.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

This was a multi million dollar plumbing company around 60 plumbers. But next time I come across an issue like this I'll think about what these old timer where saying lol


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Good advice and reason has been offered. Always leave in the best way possible, burning bridges is not good.


Believed me I tried to make it work. 

"Burning bridges is not good" 
Noted


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

HSI said:


> If you were in the union that would get you a non eligible for rehire


Maybe a not eligible to rehire with a contractor but not with the Local.

I've drug a few jobs, two recently in the last 6 months and went right back to my last contractor I drug up before hitting the road, never slacked up and now working all new commercial construction.

May be different in your jurisdiction but I know, speaking for myself and others in my hall. We drag A LOT of jobs, and most always get hired back at one point or another.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Plumberman said:


> Maybe a not eligible to rehire with a contractor but not with the Local. I've drug a few jobs, two recently in the last 6 months and went right back to my last contractor I drug up before hitting the road, never slacked up and now working all new commercial construction. May be different in your jurisdiction but I know, speaking for myself and others in my hall. We drag A LOT of jobs, and most always get hired back at one point or another.


As an Apprentice or journeyman?


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Leach713 said:


> What the hell is up with everyone their respectable way of leaving. I just quit no big deal. I never been fires from any job because i never gave any one a hard time or a reason to be fire. Who said I did demands ? I simply ask 2x times in two different occasions. Most sewer line I put in I was helping my Jman other times I doing other warranty jobs. Most sewer where price by footage 70ft might be 7k or a 70' with a city tie I'm might be 10k and up



Were you involved in pricing any of these project?


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

HSI said:


> Were you involved in pricing any of these project?


No but I knew the prices because I had a price book and saw the task code in the work order


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

HSI said:


> As an Apprentice or journeyman?


Your right as an apprentice. Matter of fact you can't drag a job as an apprentice.

Thought you were referring to Union wide.

Sorry been up a tree all day in 30 degree weather with 22 degree wind chill and a 15 mile an hour north wind, while facing north.

Carry on 

Lol


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Too much hate just cause I quit my job to look for better opportunities 

The F out of here with that bs


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> Too much hate just cause I quit my job...


You really are missing the point.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

No ones hating. Trying to have you broaden your view.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Typical youth, hearing the word "no" just does not compute. Glad I was never like that. :laughing:


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> Too much hate just cause I quit my job to look for better opportunities
> 
> The F out of here with that bs


You seem smart enough to ignore most of the unconstructive criticism. I think a lot of people are nostalgic on their apprenticeship and think everyone should have the same right of passage but everyones situation is different and at the end of the day you have to do whats best for yourself and family.
I personally would of given notice to my employer unless there was a major incident but each to their own.
Its not your fault your company had you out on your own, I am in a similar situation and I believe its on my company not me, I am confident in my work and my limitations but want to learn. As long as you are competent in your work and have quick access to help if needed then its not as bad as some make it out to be.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

All I know is I want to learn plumbing more than what I know and make money as I go to get the big pay off my jman license


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

Wish ya luck sir.....

Houston is full of opportunities.


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## agonzales1981 (Mar 30, 2012)

JWBII said:


> Wish ya luck sir.....
> 
> Houston is full of opportunities.


X2!!!


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Yes it is 
Got me a new job and no worries everything working out just fine


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

MTDUNN said:


> An attempt at sarcasm.
> 
> Remember you have a maintenance man and a green apprentice giving each other advice. Who's gonna survive that in the plumbing world?
> 
> Us "Mastodons" will do just fine


Can I get an AMEN my brothers!


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## RaffyCA (Oct 22, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> Yes it is Got me a new job and no worries everything working out just fine


I knew you are gonna be all right. Don't listen to anybody. Do whatever you gotta do. Be honest, humble and positive and you will succeed.


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