# Drain cleaning guys. . . . what's your policy on cables?



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

So a frequent customer of mine called me about a blockage only in one bathroom at a rental house. "Never had problems with the drains on that house" they said. Their tenant had guests over, so I chalked it up to probably baby wipes and / or tampons down the line, no big deal. I go out there and it's only about 30-40 feet from the cleanout that serves the blocked side of the house. Straight shot to the septic tank. It seemed like it shouldn't be too difficult.

I got the cable down there about 20 ish feet fairly easily and it bound a little so I let off the switch and gave it a tug. It was STUCK. I put it in reverse and spun the drum a couple of revolutions while pulling and it started to come back. I let off the switch and it wouldn't budge. I put it back in forward to see if i could get it to spin the other way and it still wouldn't rotate clockwise. Back into reverse to get the drum to spin a couple of times and it moved some more but not enough. I gave it a little spin and a yank and a little spin and a yank, and eventually i got to about the last 10 feet of cable and it started moving without turning the drum. 

Sadly by the time I got it out of there the damage was already done. Kinked the cable probably spinning it too much trying to get the thing out of there - lo and behold i had about a 2 foot long chunk of about 50/50 roots and baby wipes on the end of the cable thick enough to block the entire line. I looked at the cleanout and the level was not dropping and glanced over to my sad-looking cable and thought last shot, I don't want to get this friggin thing stuck because it broke off. So I sent this wonky ass cable back down the line and pulled back ANOTHER 2 foot plus in length of the same nonsense. After that the line was flowing quite well, but now i'm in a position where I have to replace my cable asap.

Do I charge the customer for it? Do I eat it? Split it? What do you guys do? I normally charge a small fee for the machine to help offset costs like this but I haven't made enough from those fees in a year of using it to cover a cable replacement.


Thanks!


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

I would not charge the homeowner for a cable. I charge enough so that even if my cable breaks off in a line I can at least replace it or close to it. 

What machine and what size cable are you using?

You should be able to bend the cable back to semi- straight if it's a good quality cable. In fact I purposely "kink" my cable to allow it to clean the pipes better. It has 3 to 4 bends within the first 10 feet.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

K-3800 with 3/8 IW cable.

It's not even really like it's "kinked". More like the middle of the first 10 feet of cable coiled around this mess of crap and made a spring out of it. A kink I could probably fix. This is like a continuous coil.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

Alan said:


> K-3800 with 3/8 IW cable.
> 
> It's not even really like it's "kinked". More like the middle of the first 10 feet of cable coiled around this mess of crap and made a spring out of it. A kink I could probably fix. This is like a continuous coil.


 There is the problem. You used the wrong cable for the job. A 3/8" cable is for branch lines. It can do 3" but is not designed for heavy roots. If the clog were only a soft blockage you would probably be fine. 

I have used the 3800 many times to unclog main lines but that was with a 1/2" cable and only in lines where I didn't expect thick roots. It will cut the roots but you have to be careful with how hard you push it. 

I definitely would not charge the homeowner since it seems it was a user error.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Yeah that's pretty much where my head was at, although I'm not sure how he previously had no issues with the drains at this house given the amount of roots I pulled out.

If I had known there were root issues there I would have told him I don't have the right cable to deal with it.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

I've seen it happen countless times. I've pulled out root balls that were nearly 10 feet long. They have no idea there are roots until someone starts flushing wipes. Then those get caught on the roots and don't break down so it causes a clog.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I wouldn't charge for the cable because I already charge for the equipment. Equipment includes a cable.

Now Alan we've told you several times to take pictures!!!! Where are they, we need to see the cable???:crying::crying:

That's exactly why I don't do mainlines. The K-3800 and even the 1/2" cable isn't designed for roots. I do some mainlines when the toilet is clogged but ends up being the pipe.

If the whole basement is backed up, I pass.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Another think if you were in my area and you couldn't get your cable back because you didn't use the proper equipment or cable you'd be buying him a new mainline and a new lawn.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

5/8" or bigger for roots. I pulled out a mass of roots one day, pulled the cables back and the tail hanging off the head was over 18' long!! and I mean even at the 18' mark it was like a 1" bundle before it tapered to nothing!!








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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

Agreed, 

3/8 cable is for 1.5-2 inch
1/2 for 2-3 inch (sometimes 4)
5/8 for the mainline

To me it sounds like you got out to the septic tank and picked up enough wipes to make it difficult to pull it back into and through the 4 inch pipe.



When you snake from a cleanout do you turn the machine on and feed it that way? or Do you manually push it out (with the machine off) until you encounter the clog?


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Standard Drain said:


> Agreed,
> 
> 3/8 cable is for 1.5-2 inch
> 1/2 for 2-3 inch (sometimes 4)
> ...


Normally feed out manually until I encounter a clog. Usually don't turn it on before then unless I can't get around a fitting. Definitely did not make it into the septic tank though. 2nd Bath ties in outside the building and downstream of the clog.

I guess I know what my next purchases are going to be. I've already priced out the secondary drum with the 1/2" cable and a set of heads, but to run a 5/8 cable i'll need a completely different machine. 

Suggestions?


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

When I use my drum machines I run the machine as I push and pull the cable in or out. If I'm using my sectionals I do the same. The only time I don't run it the whole way is if I've already done a video inspection and found I only need to focus on certain areas. 

As far as what machine I'd recommend for main lines there are many variables. If you're young and/or strong, have a healthy back and knees, don't mind heavy lifting, then I'd say get a k-7500. If you'd like portability, the ability to take the machine on a roof or a crawl space then I'd say go with a k-60.

I used to be a drum guy, only used those for 10+ years. Lately I've gone to sectionals. With my k-60 I can do 4" mains up to 150 feet long using 7/8 cable, snake branch lines using 5/8 cable and bathtubs using the drum adapter that has 25' of 1/4" cable. It is overkill on the smaller lines so I've put my k-50 back in the van.

I haven't used my drums in many moons. It may take me a bit longer to set up but my back and knees thank me. The k-7500 with 100 feet of cable loaded weighs close to 300 pounds. The k-60 weighs about 60 pounds (I think) and one reel with 90 feet of cable is probably another 60 pounds. 

If your area has a lot of outside cleanouts or walk out basements then I'd stick with a drum. Unfortunately, less than half the houses I go to have those available.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> When I use my drum machines I run the machine as I push and pull the cable in or out. If I'm using my sectionals I do the same. The only time I don't run it the whole way is if I've already done a video inspection and found I only need to focus on certain areas.
> 
> As far as what machine I'd recommend for main lines there are many variables. If you're young and/or strong, have a healthy back and knees, don't mind heavy lifting, then I'd say get a k-7500. If you'd like portability, the ability to take the machine on a roof or a crawl space then I'd say go with a k-60.
> 
> ...


I was looking at the k-750 earlier and the thing I noticed about it is that it's belt driven. My boss had a k-400 and after a couple years the belt wouldn't hang onto the plastic drum anymore, and he was too cheap to replace the drum. Kept sending me on those drain calls though. Ugh. I think I prefer the direct drive machines.

You also weren't kidding about close to 300 pounds good grief! I don't think i'll be lifting that in and out of the back of my pickup any time soon.

Would you mind educating me a bit on the sectional machines? It seems like if there are no outside cleanouts that they would be a pretty messy endeavor trying to snake down the toilet line. I've never used one, but I definitely won't rule them out.

Currently the k-6200 seems like a good option for a mainline drum machine, although it's a little expensive. Direct drive, 180 lbs loaded, and the drum separates from the unit similarly to the k-3800, so it would be much easier to load and unload in terms of weight.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

If you're not going to encounter a lot of heavy root blockages the 6200 might be good enough. 

I've had my k7500 for many years and haven't had to replace the belt yet. I've done several thousand drains with it. The belts do stretch out after a while. Mine is getting close to the point where I might as well do it but since I don't use it I've put it off. The only parts I've had to replace are the stair rollers and auto feed bearings. 

I also have a direct drive machine, it's the Duracable DM-175. That machine has more power than the Ridgid but it's also heavier and bulkier. It's way more power than I need. I don't encounter 6" lines around here unless I'm doing commercial and even then it's rare. 

The sectional machines have a piece you attach that works as a sleeve so the cable is not flopping around making a mess. Depending on the cable size they typically come in 7.5' to 15' lengths. You can find shorter cables which are easier to manage but you'll end up spending much more. They spin a lot faster than a drum machine and I've found them to work just as good, if not better than, an equivalent drum machine. There is a bit of a learning curve if you've only used drums.


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

I carried the Gorlitz GO-62 (100 ft 5/8 cable). 153 LBS


https://www.gorlitz.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=DB63EBC73E674F17B72B94DF50428B5D


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Tango said:


> I wouldn't charge for the cable because I already charge for the equipment. Equipment includes a cable.
> 
> Now Alan we've told you several times to take pictures!!!! Where are they, we need to see the cable???:crying::crying:
> 
> ...


So much money left on the table here......


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

A couple of hours of a 5/8" innercore cable on a Speedrooter and no luck, it's time for a jetter.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> If you're not going to encounter a lot of heavy root blockages the 6200 might be good enough.
> 
> I've had my k7500 for many years and haven't had to replace the belt yet. I've done several thousand drains with it. The belts do stretch out after a while. Mine is getting close to the point where I might as well do it but since I don't use it I've put it off. The only parts I've had to replace are the stair rollers and auto feed bearings.
> 
> ...









You are obviously extremely well-versed in the art of drain cleaning. I enjoyed your posts on this thread. 

I would like to add a bit about RPM's. The K-60 {which I have} spins at 600 RPMs per Ridgid's catalog. So to the original poster, if you are using a slower drum machine, you aren't cutting roots as effectively as a high-RPM machine. I've used big bulky drum machines like the Spartan. It has great power and torque, but the auger heads don't spin very fast. The K-60 with a 7/8" cable in a 3" or 4" line with a cutter head shreads roots. Sometimes patience is needed; you almost have to 'saw' through a thick root.

Just think of cutting a 2"x4" and using really slow strokes and the man next to you is cutting at lightening speed. He'll saw the wood quickly and you'll be there all day with no progress.

As long as the cable isn't turning, then you're not cutting.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Standard Drain said:


> When you snake from a cleanout do you turn the machine on and feed it that way? or Do you manually push it out (with the machine off) until you encounter the clog?





Both, depends on how lazy I am feeling lolz 








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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Alan said:


> I guess I know what my next purchases are going to be. I've already priced out the secondary drum with the 1/2" cable and a set of heads, but to run a 5/8 cable i'll need a completely different machine.
> 
> Suggestions?





Honestly, just get a 5/8" drum unit.








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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Alan said:


> Normally feed out manually until I encounter a clog. Usually don't turn it on before then unless I can't get around a fitting. Definitely did not make it into the septic tank though. 2nd Bath ties in outside the building and downstream of the clog.
> 
> I guess I know what my next purchases are going to be. I've already priced out the secondary drum with the 1/2" cable and a set of heads, but to run a 5/8 cable i'll need a completely different machine.
> 
> Suggestions?


 Spend 1k on cables and use a $300 drill. It's all about technique and the right equipment.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

If I were you I'd probably start off with something used and in good shape. I get the feeling you don't do a whole lot of drain cleaning. Getting something that's not too expensive will allow you to test if it's something you want to dive deeper into. If it's not then you can sell the machine and not lose much. If you decide you want to do it more then you can buy a better machine later on.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> If I were you I'd probably start off with something used and in good shape. I get the feeling you don't do a whole lot of drain cleaning. Getting something that's not too expensive will allow you to test if it's something you want to dive deeper into. If it's not then you can sell the machine and not lose much. If you decide you want to do it more then you can buy a better machine later on.


Yeah, you're right on. I haven't done tons of drain cleaning jobs, but with what I have done the machine is now paid for in under a year. I would love to do more. From what I have heard all of the plumbers around here refer customers to roto-rooter.

The unfortunate thing being in an area like I am, it's hard to find this kind of stuff used, unless I strictly eBay hunt. Not planning on jumping the gun any time soon, but it's definitely on my radar now. 

The more I look at those sectional machines the more I like them.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

If you like what the sectionals are then I can recommend the k-60. You can find them on eBay easily. There is a lot of information out there on that particular machine. I'm not sure if we're allowed to reference other forums but there is one that has a whole sub-forum dedicated to the k-60.

I got lucky with mine. I bought one for $85 a few weeks ago. Just last week I ended up finding a k-60sp with 8 new sections of cable, some ends, 2 new drum attachments and the rear hose for $850. That was on Craigslist though. The k-60sp has more power and spins faster than the original "suitcase" style. 

So far I've used them to open several mains, kitchen lines, laundry lines, and 1 bathtub. The longest run has been 90 feet of 4" and the machine felt strong. I don't know of many drum machines that have that much versatility. Plus I've saved a lot of room in my van by only having to carry 1 machine. I ended up putting the k-50 back in my van earlier today just because the k-60 is overkill in smaller drains. 

I also use the sectional cables with my drill but I wouldn't recommend getting into that until you become comfortable with using those types of cables. It can be dangerous if you let the cable build up too much torque. Just today I went to clean out a line that someone snaked with a drum machine. When I ran my camera I saw a whole bunch of hairline roots left. 1 pass with my chain knocker and the drill and you couldn't even tell where the roots had penetrated the pipe.


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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

If you have a Home Depot around they sell off their used rental machines
so you could get a Electric EEL drain machine for a good price,

In all my years of Drain Cleaning over 30 years I always started the cable 
Running as soon as I get it inside the cleanout, always keep the cable turning
to prevent it from getting hung up in blockage, 

I have cleared main lines with a 3/8" cable but only when I knew it was a paper 
blockage, not anything heaver then that,


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

So a little more searching and I found a couple of things that I like and dislike. I don't really like the wire basket cable storage. That seems like it's going to be a friggin mess when the cable goes back in to be stored. Am I overthinking this?

Ridgid does have a new machine with a plastic swiveling drum that is 100% contained with a drain plug. I will presume that the drum is available separately although probably expensive, and it should work with whatever size cable I want to stick in there. I like that design.

The new machine(k-5208) is tempting as it claims to be more lightweight and more powerful than previous sectional machines, but it's a 7/8 or 1-1/4 cable versus 5/8 or 7/8 with the k-60sp. I don't think I ever want to get into anything big enough that I need a cable of that size, so maybe that machine itself is overkill. Besides, I doubt I'll find one used anywhere.

Related note : I received a call yesterday about cleaning out a "landscape drain".
I would probably pass on it if it's that corrugated ADS crap anyway as i've never run a cable down that stuff and it seems like a dangerous affair. However, given past experience with finding a root ball, i'll probably have to pass anyway, but it's like life is giving me a shove. Buy a bigger machine.

I should add : Home depot in my area doesn't do equipment rental.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

The 5208 is supposed to be a cross between the k-60 and the k-1500 in terms of power and portability. Probably more power than most people need. If you are going to be doing a lot of root infested 6" lines it would be a good choice. Plus you wouldn't need the 5/8 cable option since you already have the k-3800. 

You can get the plastic drum with the turntable to store your cables. I think last time I looked it up it was over $300. I stuck with my wire baskets. It's not that difficult to keep things dry and clean with it. That's what tarps are for. Plus that's just added weight when carrying the cables to the access point.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> The 5208 is supposed to be a cross between the k-60 and the k-1500 in terms of power and portability. Probably more power than most people need. If you are going to be doing a lot of root infested 6" lines it would be a good choice. Plus you wouldn't need the 5/8 cable option since you already have the k-3800.
> 
> You can get the plastic drum with the turntable to store your cables. I think last time I looked it up it was over $300. I stuck with my wire baskets. It's not that difficult to keep things dry and clean with it. That's what tarps are for. Plus that's just added weight when carrying the cables to the access point.


So you think I would be well rounded out for general cleaning to keep my 3/8 cable, add a 1/2" cable with a spare 3800 drum, and get the k-60 with a 7/8 cable for mainlines outside and root removal?

Is the "7/8 all purpose wind" a good choice for "all purpose" or am I better off sticking with the IC cable which I assume is stiffer and stronger?
(Edit : I'm going to assume the 7/8 cable is going to encounter root balls.)

I appreciate all the time you have put into this thread.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

I wouldn't even bother with a 1/2" cable and drum. I'd got with 5/8" and 7/8" cable instead. I don't know what the average length the main lines are in your area but around here they're usually around 80 feet of 4" so I don't have a need for inner core. I have 150' of all purpose wind in my van. I also have 120' of 5/8" all purpose wind. 

If you are going to be running into 6" pipe it would be a good idea to get at least 1 length of inner core. The all purpose wind can flip in a 6" line if pushed too hard. You can run the inner core as the first cable. Or you can run all inner core but that would obviously be heavier. 

You may find, like I did, that with the 5/8" you won't even have a need for the k-3800 in your van since it can do 1 1/2" to 4" lines with one cable. In 4" I limit the use of 5/8 to soft blockages unless I've already unclogged the line and I'm using the chain knocker to finish off the root cutting.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> I wouldn't even bother with a 1/2" cable and drum. I'd got with 5/8" and 7/8" cable instead. I don't know what the average length the main lines are in your area but around here they're usually around 80 feet of 4" so I don't have a need for inner core. I have 150' of all purpose wind in my van. I also have 120' of 5/8" all purpose wind.
> 
> If you are going to be running into 6" pipe it would be a good idea to get at least 1 length of inner core. The all purpose wind can flip in a 6" line if pushed too hard. You can run the inner core as the first cable. Or you can run all inner core but that would obviously be heavier.
> 
> You may find, like I did, that with the 5/8" you won't even have a need for the k-3800 in your van since it can do 1 1/2" to 4" lines with one cable. In 4" I limit the use of 5/8 to soft blockages unless I've already unclogged the line and I'm using the chain knocker to finish off the root cutting.





Other than using hollow core cable I completely agree. I carry a general speedrooter 92 with 100' of 5/8" innercore cable. But even that can't really CLEAN 6" pipe. For that I would swap out to the 3/4" drum.








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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Alan said:


> Do I charge the customer for it? Do I eat it? Split it? What do you guys do? I normally charge a small fee for the machine to help offset costs like this but I haven't made enough from those fees in a year of using it to cover a cable replacement.



We charge a 65$ drain snaking fee on top of our normal rate. If you are kinking/breaking cables so often that you are debating charging much more than that the problem is likely a lack of experience. The customer shouldn't be charged for your lack of experience.


Until you get good treat snaking like tapping a hole. Go slow, keep backing off so as to only deal with a bit of material at a time. Eventually you will learn to feel it properly and can go faster without breaking things. For now just use a small head and push lightly. Once it's unclogged work your way up to bigger heads.













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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> V.A Hydro-ooter said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't even bother with a 1/2" cable and drum. I'd got with 5/8" and 7/8" cable instead. I don't know what the average length the main lines are in your area but around here they're usually around 80 feet of 4" so I don't have a need for inner core. I have 150' of all purpose wind in my van. I also have 120' of 5/8" all purpose wind.
> ...


 I was talking about sectional cables though. 5/8" hollow core sectional is very different to the 5/8" used in a drum machine. For 6" lines with a sectional machine you'd need at least a 7/8 cable but preferably a 1 1/4" cable. 

In my drum machine I use 11/16" cable to do up to 6" lines.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> In my drum machine I use 11/16" cable to do up to 6" lines.



Gorlitz? What's your setup?










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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> V.A Hydro-ooter said:
> 
> 
> > In my drum machine I use 11/16" cable to do up to 6" lines.
> ...


 I have 2 drum main line machines. One is the k-7500 and the other is the Duracable DM-175. I use 11/16 cable in both. They're both loaded with 100' and I carry a tire with an additional 50 feet in it. 

If I know beforehand I will be doing a 6" line then I'll load up the Duracable since it has more power. But the 6" lines I do are few and far between.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

Actually, I just remembered the electric eel model n drum machine can run inner core 5/8 sectional cables. I doubt it would work very well in 4 to 6 inch root infested lines but I've never used one so I don't know.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> Actually, I just remembered the electric eel model n drum machine can run inner core 5/8 sectional cables. I doubt it would work very well in 4 to 6 inch root infested lines but I've never used one so I don't know.





It looks like it certainly could but without a feed head to limit the cable feed I would worry about the cable catching, binding up good, and then spitting out of the machine at you.










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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Thanks for all of the input, it's really appreciated. 

What I know about drain cleaning is everything my old boss taught me : "Here's a machine, go shove it down a drain" and everything I've learned through experience with his equipment. Never saw him clean a drain one time in 11 years, although he did watch me on a few occasions. One vivid memory is a collapsed line that I found in the street and he didn't believe me. I sent it down at least 3 times in front of him each time bringing back gravel and dirt on the end of the head. IOW not much of a teacher, but I am willing to learn.

So far this has been the only time I've had a cable come out in this condition, so I'm chalking it up to a learning experience and will move on with a plan to acquire a bigger machine for working through clogs outside of buildings.

On the k-60 front, the eBay "deals" don't seem that great right now. Lots of "machine only" around $1100 and $1200. By the time I throw all of the parts and pieces on it I'm probably only a couple hundred shy of a new unit.

So I'm keeping my ear to the ground.

Thanks, everybody.

:vs_cool:


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

I wouldn't buy any of the k-60's currently on sale either. You're right, for that price I'd go with a new one. I haven't seen many good eBay deals on those in a while, though I haven't been looking since I bought mine.

The only reason I bought mine used was because I got to test it and they threw in over $500 worth of brand new cables, drum attachments and ends. 

If you're not in a rush to buy I think Milwaukee is going to come out with something similar to the k-60 next year that will run on batteries.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Your cable was undersized, eat it.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> It looks like it certainly could but without a feed head to limit the cable feed I would worry about the cable catching, binding up good, and then spitting out of the machine at you.
> 
> 
> .





Model N is a sink machine, I almost bought one but decided to run the 5/8" from a drill. I wouldn't think the cable would shoot out unless running in reverse.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

I'd like to add that 5/8 inner core will clean 6" main all day.. all out residential sewer laterals are 5" or 6".. 

There are times when you need a 1500.. but those are extremely rare.. needed a general before I need a k1500 usually..

I've clear 10" mains before with general. .. hi rise cast iron from 3" toilet flange


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Venomthirst said:


> I'd like to add that 5/8 inner core will clean 6" main all day.. all out residential sewer laterals are 5" or 6"..
> 
> There are times when you need a 1500.. but those are extremely rare.. needed a general before I need a k1500 usually..
> 
> I've clear 10" mains before with general. .. hi rise cast iron from 3" toilet flange







What size/type end bit are you using on these l0" and 16" lines?


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

3" cutter... no other access at the time only toilet... it was emergency call middle of night.. so no jetter no help just ripp toilet off and start snaking..

Now not I'm saying cleaned it, just clear it, and it was cast iron pipe plugged with wipes and garbage..

I clean 6" clay by starting with root ripper or 2" cutter and work up to 6" expansion cutter

Went back and found a over head cleanout and used jetter to give it a blast

It's not really recommend and yes you can get in a situation where the cable will flip on you but.. it's kind of you dont know what your in until your in it..

It was 2nd floor on a 28 story apartment building.. and multiple units were backing up .. blockage was about 60' away in parking level 1 about 3 stories away from unit...

Our company doesnt have jetters on service van.. the jetter is it's own and 1st defense is a service truck with either.. general as mainline machine or k1500 and k3800 as kitchen and branch line machine.. floor drains is either or depending on size..

Most often 3" and larger is mainline machine for me if I have proper access.. I usually use k3800 for 2" and smaller..

A general will clear manholes and catch basins if you need it too..


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Venomthirst said:


> I'd like to add that 5/8 inner core will clean 6" main all day.. all out residential sewer laterals are 5" or 6"..
> 
> There are times when you need a 1500.. but those are extremely rare.. needed a general before I need a k1500 usually..
> 
> I've clear 10" mains before with general. .. hi rise cast iron from 3" toilet flange





Maybe you can but you shouldn't. I have done 6" successfully with my 5/8" before but if there's any good amount of solids it won't get it. I tell them up front it's pointless to have me try. Dispatch knows to send anyone with 6" to our local jetter.


Even the 3/4" is kinda pushing it trying to do 6". For 6"+ I use our sectional.












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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Revisiting this thread as well, because I'm now being forced to buy a bigger machine.

Local roto-rooter is no longer doing weekend or emergency calls.

One of the two bigger shops in town is no longer doing weekend or emergency calls.

Friday I got a call for a stoppage, and it ended up being between the house and septic.
Told the guy that I don't really have the right machine for it, and explained the dangers of sending my tiny cable down and that I might be able to pinpoint the blockage at least, but it's going to be slow and cautious moving so that we don't have to dig up the whole line.
The cleanout cap that had blown off let a bunch of wipes and crap out into the flowerbed, so that was fun to swim in while I was cleaning, but I put the spade head on the cable to prevent it from grabbing too much of anything, and spun it and fed it nice and slow. I got in quite a ways and I heard the motor bog, so i let off the switch and gave the cable a yank. Repeated this very slowly and listening carefully to the motor about 15-20 times.
Lo and Behold I was able to get it open for him. Cable came back with some roots on it (and not knotted up!), so I told him he should scope the line and properly clean it, but I don't have equipment for either of those projects.
He was super happy and gave me a $10 for lunch on top of the bill.

I just received a call today from another customer for a 4" drain that was previously blocked at about 100 feet.

There aren't any used K-60's on eBay right now so I guess I'm just going to have to buy a brand new one. :vs_cool:


I think I'll start with just one size of cable for now.

Obviously the 7/8" cable will be enough for doing mainlines and roots, but less versatile, but I'm not getting into anything bigger than 4". Given that I already have the 3/8" drum machine should I just go with the bigger cable for now and add the 5/8" along later, or should I work my way up to a bigger cable as demand for this type of work increases which it will undoubtedly do.

Any must-have heads, or will the standard tool kit suffice?

Thanks to everyone who is taking this journey with me. :vs_cool:


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## rooterboy (Jul 16, 2009)

Where in California are you located?


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

If the max size is 4" then I'd go with the k-60 and 7/8 cable. As you know it will also run 5/8 cable so you can get that later on since you already have 3/8 cable. I've used mine to run 5/8 on several lines but it's definitely overkill for smaller drains and small work areas. That's why I put the k-50 back in my van.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Alan said:


> Revisiting this thread as well, because I'm now being forced to buy a bigger machine.





Some guys on here like sectionals, some like drum units. I prefer drum units but I frequently have to work in bathrooms snaking from a toilet flange. As much as I would like to I can't or don't want to open every basement cleanout. Sometimes the only basement cleanout is too far from where the clog is or the pipe sends you the wrong way and you have to pull a toilet.


Drum units can be heavy and difficult for older guys to move who if you're out of shape. The biggest issue for most guys is getting it in and out of the van. I tilt mine back on the handle wheel and hold the bottom of the frame and pull it out of the van that way. For getting it in I have a ramp with a block and tackle setup to pull it up easily.



Sectionals require more drop cloths and prep before you can run it in a home and can't navigate as many sharp bends. They do have more power but a 3/4" solid core drum unit cable will destroy any roots/wipes/f.h.p. while being much more compact.



*My suggestion is to rent a machine from a local hardware store and try it before you buy it. *



As far as heads to use I suggest always starting with a single crescent/half moon. This will get you in the least trouble and will OPEN most lines. For actually cleaning it well just move your way up in size. Single crescent, double crescent, root cutter, root ripper, maybe even a grease cutter ball.








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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

rooterboy said:


> Where in California are you located?


I'm all the way up by Oregon. :vs_cool:


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Alan said:


> Revisiting this thread as well, because I'm now being forced to buy a bigger machine.
> 
> Local roto-rooter is no longer doing weekend or emergency calls.
> 
> ...


no idea if you're interested but I'm selling my entire dreel setup, clog dog and the renssi RCM-10. I'm located north of LA


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> no idea if you're interested but I'm selling my entire dreel setup, clog dog and the renssi RCM-10. I'm located north of LA


I wouldn't mind taking a look at specs on that stuff, but I'm pretty sure the price point is going to be too high for me at the moment. In a couple of years it might be a different story.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

I just found an immaculate k-60 with 90' of 7/8 cable and 45' of 5/8 for $1200 in San Bernadino.

Already sold. :sad2:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Alan said:


> I wouldn't mind taking a look at specs on that stuff, but I'm pretty sure the price point is going to be too high for me at the moment. In a couple of years it might be a different story.






On the plus side anything you do buy will likely retain its resale value so if you don't like it you can pass it along. 





I highly suggest you try a drum unit with 5/8" or 3/4" cable, closed drum, not one of those open cage models that fling sewage.






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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Alan said:


> I just found an immaculate k-60 with 90' of 7/8 cable and 45' of 5/8 for $1200 in San Bernadino.
> 
> Already sold. :sad2:


Grab the next deal, you'll make the money back in no time. My drain machines paid out for me and stair cat but it was a god damn bust on the cameras and navitrack, at least I have them ready, someday a job will come along for those, it's not like I'm shutting down for another 15 years or more.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> Grab the next deal, you'll make the money back in no time. My drain machines paid out for me and stair cat but it was a god damn bust on the cameras and navitrack, at least I have them ready, someday a job will come along for those, it's not like I'm shutting down for another 15 years or more.







The best part about the camera is I can almost instantly know what's going on inside that pipe buried 8 feet down. I know if I got it for real or not. I know if the pipe is starting to collapse. I know if my snake is going the wrong way and why. 



Prevents a lot of call backs. Prevents a lot of situations where the customer keeps having issues when we have charged them hundreds of dollars and they get pissed because we say we don't know. I can look them in the eye and say you're good to go or tell them they need to dig.




The worst is when people call back, basement flooded with sewage a second or third time, and you have to say I really don't know what's wrong with the pipe. Camera is worth it just to stop that.










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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> The best part about the camera is I can almost instantly know what's going on inside that pipe buried 8 feet down. I know if I got it for real or not. I know if the pipe is starting to collapse. I know if my snake is going the wrong way and why.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I agree but it never goes that far for me. As you know I don't touch anything that's clogged what may seems as the main line. 

Some people only call for for a cam inspection and I do give them a price and I vary it, sometimes even lower than the competition (tool fee rate) to see if I'll get it and no one has hired me yet. Everyone I think expects it to be next to free and they hate it when I say some plumbing may be involved because of the C/O.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> Grab the next deal, you'll make the money back in no time. My drain machines paid out for me and stair cat but it was a god damn bust on the cameras and navitrack, at least I have them ready, someday a job will come along for those, it's not like I'm shutting down for another 15 years or more.


Got it! I've been obsessively refreshing the eBay search page. 

Lo-and-behold somebody selling a brand new open box machine - OEM equipment included less the cables for $975.

75 feet of 7/8" cable on order for now. My last mission is to decide what kinds of heads I want to get. Looks like the OEM tool kit is around $150 which isn't bad. By the time I'm done, i'll have the whole thing for ~$1385, and it retails for nearly $2000

:vs_cool::vs_cool::vs_cool:


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

I recommend getting an extra 7/8 cable so you can cut off the end and make your own auger style end. The one that's included in the kit is garbage. 
With the cable-turned-auger I've been able to snake 4" lines through a 2" pipe many times. Plus it's the best thing I've ever used for retrieving wipes and tampons. It will handle roots as well but I prefer a blade for that.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Alan said:


> Got it! I've been obsessively refreshing the eBay search page.
> 
> Lo-and-behold somebody selling a brand new open box machine - OEM equipment included less the cables for $975.
> 
> ...


-spiral saw blades
-reverse auger as VA suggested
-four bladed ridgid heads
-2-1/2" clog chopper for orangeburg but make sure it has the ridgid end....not the general end with a ridgid adapter


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