# no hub wrench



## kiddplum (Feb 7, 2010)

anyone have experience with the tool which will do both sides of the no hub band at the same time? I have seen them in the trade papers.
what is your experience with them?
also I see a lot of guys using the Seekonk wrenches
years ago I bought a douglas still use it today ,since then I have bought both ridged and reed have you noticed any differences?
always looking for some opinions and suggestions on what works best for the other guys


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

I have never seen or heard of one. If you find one post a picture. I dont see the benefit.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Both sides of a no hub band?

What?


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## aldridgeplbg (Dec 26, 2011)

Yes I have seen them rex wheeler makes one but quite pricey I think never seen one in action though


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)




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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

Wheeler Rex 1992 TwinTite 60in/lb. with 5/16" replacement socket - Amazon.com


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Unless you were running lots of cast iron, it looks like a pain in the


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

That is a tool of laziness. I would never be caught with that damn thingl! I want to 'feel' each band that I tighten so I know it's done right. It takes what? A whopping 10 seconds or less to tighten a band?? :no: There is nothing wrong with trying to save time and work smart, but that double no-hub torque thing your going on about, is not the way. You asked for an opinion, so there ya go.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

suzie said:


> I have never seen or heard of one. I dont see the benefit.


Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I have a Seekonk and am not sure why anyone would use anything else...

Never did a job on a scale where I would have an interest in tightening multiple clamps at once....

I was taught there was an order to follow when tightening on extra heavy that would prevent leaking and it works for me...


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

Laziness? I just finished a job with 35 000 ft of underground cast and and over 100 000 bands. Anything to be more effiecent is better. extra 10 sec. here and there with that many bands is an extra 1 000 000 sec. Thats alot of lost time vs. buying a 250 or whatever dollar tool. Im still not saying I would have used it since I do agree that using an impact gun and seekonk torgue wrench is still my choice method but I might have tried it to save time. Don't confuse effiency with laziness.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

red_devil said:


> Laziness? I just finished a job with 35 000 ft of underground cast and and over 100 000 bands. Anything to be more effiecent is better. extra 10 sec. here and there with that many bands is an extra 1 000 000 sec. Thats alot of lost time vs. buying a 250 or whatever dollar tool. Im still not saying I would have used it since I do agree that using an impact gun and seekonk torgue wrench is still my choice method but I might have tried it to save time. Don't confuse effiency with laziness.


That's A LOT of torquing.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Even after getting one or two clicks with a no-hub torque wrench (indicating that the no-hub band was tight), if one goes back a few days later to previously installed and tightened bands, some more 'snugging' is possible. They seem to loosen slightly with the passing of time.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

red_devil said:


> Laziness? I just finished a job with 35 000 ft of underground cast and and over 100 000 bands. Anything to be more effiecent is better. extra 10 sec. here and there with that many bands is an extra 1 000 000 sec. Thats alot of lost time vs. buying a 250 or whatever dollar tool. Im still not saying I would have used it since I do agree that using an impact gun and seekonk torgue wrench is still my choice method but I might have tried it to save time. Don't confuse effiency with laziness.


Jobs such as you described are not very common. Not to mention, a job that size, you're being paid to make sure EACH and EVERY band is tightened correctly. To me, that means tightening each one at a time. I do not see how anyone could trust a tool, tightening multiple bands at once. I guess it comes down to whatever works for someone else may not work for me. Don't confuse efficiency with quality.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Triplecrown24 said:


> ...a job that size, you're being paid to make sure EACH and EVERY band is tightened correctly....


But unfortunately in the real world...

He is being paid to complete the project on time, under budget, and with just enough quality to last a day past the one year warranty. I doubt seriously that any of his superiors give a ratz hiney about each and every band.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> But unfortunately in the real world...
> 
> He is being paid to complete the project on time, under budget, and with just enough quality to last a day past the one year warranty. I doubt seriously that any of his superiors give a ratz hiney about each and every band.


I agree. I guess with a job that magnitude and everyone wanting it done like yesterday, is a perfect recipe for mistakes. All I'm saying is I do not see that tool being too popular.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> Even after getting one or two clicks with a no-hub torque wrench (indicating that the no-hub band was tight), if one goes back a few days later to previously installed and tightened bands, some more 'snugging' is possible. They seem to loosen slightly with the passing of time.


I have heard of a tar based paint that you apply before the band. I used the Milwaukee torque wrench it worked ok.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I wonder if all the other trades are as bad as plumbers. Whenever someone mentions a new tool, most of the posts aren't about their experience with it, they are, "what do you need that for?" or "only hacks and slugs would use them," or "you must be morally deficient to step away from the herd and do it the easy, less body destroying way." Very few informational posts, mostly just ripping.


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## ProblemSolver (Jun 29, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> i have heard of a tar based paint that you apply before the band. I used the milwaukee torque wrench it worked ok.


black swan


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## ProblemSolver (Jun 29, 2013)

I don't know if it's annually or what but, torque wrenches should be calibrated. They don't stay at 60 Lbs torque forever.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ProblemSolver said:


> I don't know if it's annually or what but, torque wrenches should be calibrated. They don't stay at 60 Lbs torque forever.


If you are required to have certified torque values then annual recalibration is required, Seekonk will perform that service on their tools....

Most other tools are throw away's...
The sockets will be totally worn out well before that..


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

I started using those lyncar red ones. I could easily go through one every 2 weeks. Company supplied. Being in dirt, they messed up quick. I switched to seekonk which was an absolute pain to get here. A $60 dollar or whatever tool cost me over dbl to get it shipped with customs etc. Worth every penny though. 

As for the bands. Every band was torqued. Once finished a trench our lucky apprentices retorqued every band while the journeyman prepared the test. My crew worked effienctly and we all followed the same procedure. If one was missed, we learned quick on our tests anyway but that was rare. Most leaks from cracked pipe or fittings. As for swan we black swaned every band 6 inch and above. Anything below we found it not required and only had more issue blowing off on test. As for the bands loosening off. Absolutely especially in the winter but we made a standard practice to finish a trench, test and backfill. Im still surprised how well it went. 

And surpsingly, my bosses are extremely strict on quality. We had to be sure every single band was torqued and properly installed. No mickey mouse here. They pay us for the job done right the first time. Having to shut down production, jack hammer/saw cut up a floor, bring in machinery to dig up a pipe. The cost would be unheard of and we all understand that. Which is why we took alot of care.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

red_devil said:


> Laziness? I just finished a job with 35 000 ft of underground cast and and over 100 000 bands. Anything to be more effiecent is better. extra 10 sec. here and there with that many bands is an extra 1 000 000 sec. Thats alot of lost time vs. buying a 250 or whatever dollar tool. Im still not saying I would have used it since I do agree that using an impact gun and seekonk torgue wrench is still my choice method but I might have tried it to save time. Don't confuse effiency with laziness.


 
I can see it saving time on jobs with extensive cast iron, and it probably helps preventing misalignment or pinching on the band; but who the heck still uses cast iron on underground plumbing anymore?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

CaberTosser said:


> I can see it saving time on jobs with extensive cast iron, and it probably helps preventing misalignment or pinching on the band; but who the heck still uses cast iron on underground plumbing anymore?


Probably everybody in Chicago, NYC, and anywhere else sizable government or industrial construction is being done.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

CaberTosser said:


> I can see it saving time on jobs with extensive cast iron, and it probably helps preventing misalignment or pinching on the band; but who the heck still uses cast iron on underground plumbing anymore?


A lot of architects spec it for various reasons. They are comfortable with it, it has a proven track record. If it's used for drains, it doesn't condense, so it doesn't have to be insulated. Most health care, industrial, and entertainment facilities like it for it's quietness and ambient heat resistant qualities. We use a ton of it in Will County, which is a collar county to Chicago.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Ok some of you have stated that they still use cast for underground that is true. The thread was talking about no hub coupling tool which is not used for underground. Also the main reasons for cast no hub above grade is one the quiet characteristics two it meets the fire codes which plastic will not. It has very little to do with the track record because if you looked at the other factors you would come to the conclusion that for below grade the plastic is a better choice. The tool that started this thread would be great if you were using standard bands but what would you use if you had heavy duty bands? Do they make a tool to run four bands at one time?


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

422 plumber said:


> A lot of architects spec it for various reasons. They are comfortable with it, it has a proven track record. If it's used for drains, it doesn't condense, so it doesn't have to be insulated. Most health care, industrial, and entertainment facilities like it for it's quietness and ambient heat resistant qualities. We use a ton of it in Will County, which is a collar county to Chicago.


 None of these reasons apply to buried piping, which was the basis of my question. I'm certainly aware of its noise and fire resistance characteristics for above ground installations. I can also rationalize its use underground if the sewer experiences high effluent temperatures that would cause expansion and/or softening issues with plastics. I'm just curious about the reasoning, or if its simply because Tyler pipe has effective lobbyists in the region and performance and cost savings has nothing to do with it.......


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

CaberTosser said:


> I can see it saving time on jobs with extensive cast iron, and it probably helps preventing misalignment or pinching on the band; but who the heck still uses cast iron on underground plumbing anymore?


That tool won't help you at all with underground cast iron.

You'll need a pry bar and a strong back to make the hubs up inside the tie seal gaskets. 

Some cities won't allow anything but cast underground. I've seen jobs that were all cast underground and PVC on top out, and vise versa.

A lot of it has to do with old codes that haven't been updated and inspectors or sitting board members not wanting to budge on catching up the times...

I can see where it would be useful at extreme depths some sewers are run up north from me, and issues like that.

But here it's mostly PVC underground.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Y'all use no hub cast underground? I thought it had to be hub and spigot


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Will said:


> Y'all use no hub cast underground? I thought it had to be hub and spigot


It is hub and spigot. Even though some no hub couplings are rated for below grade stresses the bands fall short on longevity. It's cast hub and spigot or PVC .


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

No hub was spec'd. Same with cast. process waste. I asked the same question everyday "why are we using cast?" and the answer is because the engineer said so. They stamp, I install, I get paid. Thats my job. 



Sorry to hijack your thread.


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## Kleinfelterj (Jan 23, 2012)

We use no hub cast iron all the time underground. Especially in commercial kitchens with steamers


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Kleinfelterj said:


> We use no hub cast iron all the time underground. Especially in commercial kitchens with steamers


Why would steamers make it ok? It no rated for underground .


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## Kleinfelterj (Jan 23, 2012)

No where in our code does it say you can't use no hub underground. It passes inspection every time.


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## Kleinfelterj (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm curious what exactly isn't rated for underground? The pipe? The fittings? The couplings?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

That sounded bad what I meant to say was it is not rated for underground. The steamers in a lot of locations are installed without fluid coolers this is also a problem with sterilizers it is against code. The code in the IPC and the UPC states no fluid above 140 deg. Can be discharged into any receptor without being cooled down to or below 140.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Kleinfelterj said:


> I'm curious what exactly isn't rated for underground? The pipe? The fittings? The couplings?


Couplings it is the band that rusts and gives way .


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

There are no hub couplings that meet the requirements of the cispi 301 the husky 4000 is one that is rated for underground.


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