# Stupid fat kohler toilet



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Kohler Rialto toilets.
The short stubby toilets that are a bit more difficult to set by yourself because they are so fat you can't see the toilet bolts your trying to set the toilet on. They are more difficult to carry because they are nice and round, oh and the parts to replace them are oem only! 

Sorry, I just hate these toilets. Am I missing an easier way to Work with these things?


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

voltatab said:


> Kohler Rialto toilets.
> The short stubby toilets that are a bit more difficult to set by yourself because they are so fat you can't see the toilet bolts your trying to set the toilet on. They are more difficult to carry because they are nice and round, oh and the parts to replace them are oem only!
> 
> Sorry, I just hate these toilets. Am I missing an easier way to Work with these things?


Never seen one in the field, seldom is anything kohler spec'd round here.

Sure looks like a PITA though.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

voltatab said:


> Kohler Rialto toilets.
> The short stubby toilets that are a bit more difficult to set by yourself because they are so fat you can't see the toilet bolts your trying to set the toilet on. They are more difficult to carry because they are nice and round, oh and the parts to replace them are oem only!
> 
> Sorry, I just hate these toilets. Am I missing an easier way to Work with these things?


You nailed it they are a pain!

You should have a helper or a lot of patience nothing makes them easy especially when its set close between walls

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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Easy way...make sure you secure your bolts to the flange first, just an extra nut & washer.


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## PrecisionPlumb (Feb 17, 2011)

Simple bud. I use 2 2x4 blocks next to the flange set the toilet on the blocks line it up and remove them one at a time. That and i bolt the closet bolts to the flange so they dont move


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Double-nut the closet bolts so they don't move when you are trying to set the toilet. At least you don't have to bolt the tank to the bowl.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Thats what I do. 

Or, smash that junk with a hammer, and get 'em a good toilet. 

I just love spending $100 for a rebuild kit, adjusting that pain in the butt refill float, and fitting that fat refill tube in the hole..........


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## Plumber3653 (May 5, 2010)

The only trick that I found that works is to have somebody help line up the bottom as I lower the bowl. Securing the flange bolts also, but most are a tight squeeze and that 2nd person is needed. The 2x4 trick sounds like a good try in the future. I worked in a high rise with all Kohler Rialtos squeezed into the tightest of nooks allowable by code 30 years ago. When they need to be pulled and reset I just take a helper and make it as easy as it can be. Hate them.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

When I hear guys recomending double-nutting closet bolts it worries me. Does anyone *not* double-nut closet bolts when setting any toilet? I always do and it burns my ass when the last guy didn't and the bolts start spinning on me. Kind of like they did this afternoon. 





Paul


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> Does anyone *not* double-nut closet bolts when setting any toilet? I always do and it burns my ass when the last guy didn't and the bolts start spinning on me. Kind of like they did this afternoon.
> 
> Paul


Just one of the differences between a Service Plumber and a new construction plumbers........................OOPS did I say that outloud


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Associated Plum said:


> Just one of the differences between a Service Plumber and a new construction plumbers........................OOPS did I say that outloud


Yea...
The same guys that swear by caulking toilets with RTV Silicone.... :furious::furious:

If only I can pull this toilet without taking the tile with it...


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> Just one of the differences between a Service Plumber and a new construction plumbers........................OOPS did I say that outloud


Really, must we do this on every thread?!? Lol!

I'm going to go cry into my keystone lager...


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

haha...... why dont they sell closet bolts with extra nut and washer! The worst new construction plumbers to follow behind.... in my opinion are the ones walmart hires. have not seen to many that can top them.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Ruudplumber said:


> haha...... why dont they sell closet bolts with extra nut and washer! The worst new construction plumbers to follow behind.... in my opinion are the ones walmart hires. have not seen to many that can top them.


 I'm a New Construction Plumber and I've always double nutted and double washered WC's.

And you can buy closet bolt sets with double nuts and washers -- You just need to know what to ask for.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> I'm a New Construction Plumber and I've always double nutted and double washered WC's.
> 
> And you can buy closet bolt sets with double nuts and washers -- You just need to know what to ask for.


I know I'm gonna get it but I'm a service plumber and I never double nut never has it been an issue and as far as removal I've never seen double nut and yet I've always been able to change them.

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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

About the only time I double nut them is when I'm adding flange spacers. I was taught to press out on the wax ring with my thumbs to hold the bolts steady.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

smoldrn said:


> About the only time I double nut them is when I'm adding flange spacers. I was taught to press out on the wax ring with my thumbs to hold the bolts steady.


Me to

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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Your a brave man to post that...
I've dealt with the bolt that spins with the nut so you can't remove the toilet properly, all because it wasn't double nutted.

My 1st thought when this happens is, F--- the last guy who was here!! (no offense) 

You'll change when it happens to you, it can suck, and it only takes 30 seconds and a nickel extra to prevent it.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

:whistling2:Securing the bowl wax with bolts will help until you have to go back years down the road to pull the water closet.

We use #40555 closet bolts from Creed (now Plumbmaster) they are all brass with larger heads. All closet bolts ought to be brass and not any of that plated steel cr*p


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

voltatab said:


> Your a brave man to post that...
> I've dealt with the bolt that spins with the nut so you can't remove the toilet properly, all because it wasn't double nutted.
> 
> My 1st thought when this happens is, F--- the last guy who was here!! (no offense)
> ...


It happens all the time and since I'm not resetting my toilets again screw it lol

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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Ruudplumber said:


> haha...... why dont they sell closet bolts with extra nut and washer!


 




















These are Pasco from my local Winnelson. Not hard to find.







Paul


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

rocksteady said:


> These are Pasco from my local Winnelson. Not hard to find.
> 
> Paul


Are those nuts stainless or galv 
Either way I like my brass nuts

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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

> Either way I like my brass nuts


I bet you do.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> I bet you do.


Wow... He's got brass! Lol, I thought someone would say something...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> Are those nuts stainless or galv
> Either way I like my brass nuts
> 
> Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


looks like steel bolts and steel nuts to me...

I like the ones Plumbmaster has...

contains 2-5/16" brass bolts, 2-chrome plated brass nuts, 2-brass nuts, 4-stainless steel washers, 2-tinnerman nuts...

The tinnerman nuts are those thin spring like nuts and are great for when there isn't enough clearance between the top of the flange and the underside of the toilet.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Redwood said:


> looks like steel bolts and steel nuts to me...


The bolts are brass, the nuts and washers are steel. I've never had a problem with the steel nuts or the 1/4" bolts vs. 5/16" bolts. 







Paul


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

You are correct sir... :blink:

I didn't notice the 2nd pic where the package stated brass bolts...
The coloring in the pic looked a lot like those yellow zinc plated steel ones they keep trying to give me... :laughing:

Ask your supply house to get you some Pasco #59 closet bolt sets, I bet you'll like them... :thumbup:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

We always use 5/16" double nut packs from Wolverine. All brass.


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

and my local winnelson said they dont make such a thing......


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

that is double nuts and washers! so much for a good reply on that one.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

smoldrn said:


> About the only time I double nut them is when I'm adding flange spacers. I was taught to press out on the wax ring with my thumbs to hold the bolts steady.


Never gave that any thought either. But if I told the boss to "spend more money now to make someone elses life easier later" he'd roll around on the floor!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Ruudplumber said:


> and my local winnelson said they dont make such a thing......


I suppose if I worked at Winnelson, I'd tell you the same thing. :laughing:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> Just one of the differences between a Service Plumber and a new construction plumbers........................OOPS did I say that outloud


 Rut row I can hear it now. :bangin: But I agree, I,ve known plenty of plumbers who have only done new construction. :whistling2: And the reverse is true also. I learned years ago to have the full understanding of why things are done a certain way, or how, you need to have done them both. For instance if one has only plumbed new work, he wouldn't have the thought that configurations can determine if a sewer cable will direct itself up into bottom of commode instead of vent. Not picking on anyone in any way, but have simply known plumbers who did not understand the need for balance.


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> I suppose if I worked at Winnelson, I'd tell you the same thing. :laughing:


just another case of push whats on the shelf.:whistling2: makes the day go by easier.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

I love rebuilding these toilets. Big money ticket there. Most who have these do not want to replace them because they are a part of a very expensive matching ensemble. Mostly black porcelain. There are several after market kits out there but I've always put genuine Kohler parts.


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## petebee50 (Jan 16, 2011)

Ruudplumber said:


> haha...... why dont they sell closet bolts with extra nut and washer! The worst new construction plumbers to follow behind.... in my opinion are the ones walmart hires. have not seen to many that can top them.


They do


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

ckoch407 said:


> I love rebuilding these toilets. Big money ticket there. Most who have these do not want to replace them because they are a part of a very expensive matching ensemble. Mostly black porcelain. There are several after market kits out there but I've always put genuine Kohler parts.



Remember the 'Pillow Top'?

I have 6 still in the original packaging down in my subterranean shop.

Someday I'll be a hero for having replacement bowls, tank lids, seats etc for the poor saps who bought these monstrosities, in bone, of course..


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

I keep reading posts about people saying that their shop would never waste the money on the single nut toilet bolts package, especially just to make life easier for the next guy....
I'm sure your probably wasting a lot more money on other things that you could change to justify the .30 extra on the stock list. 
Also, lots of companies are repeat client based, meaning if that customer only uses you, then it would be your very own company coming out to pull or replace that toilet you installed. If and when that happens, then add up the wasted money in labor, I'll bet it may be more than .30. 

Or maybe it won't be -just a thought


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

voltatab said:


> I keep reading posts about people saying that their shop would never waste the money on the single nut toilet bolts package, especially just to make life easier for the next guy....
> I'm sure your probably wasting a lot more money on other things that you could change to justify the .30 extra on the stock list.
> Also, lots of companies are repeat client based, meaning if that customer only uses you, then it would be your very own company coming out to pull or replace that toilet you installed. If and when that happens, then add up the wasted money in labor, I'll bet it may be more than .30.
> 
> Or maybe it won't be -just a thought


That sounds a whole lot like a post I made in another thread. I'd like a chance to defend that if I may... 

I never used the term "waste money". I simply stated that I work for a multi BILLION dollar outfit that frankly does not care about any advise that some stupid plumber would have to give. This company trips over dollars trying to pick up pennies every single day.

Personally, I have never double nutted a toilet. Honestly, the thought never occured to me. I do however, think it is a capital idea, and will employ that tactic if doing work at my house or for free for a friend or relative (not interested in any SSSSSIIIIIDDDDEEEEE JOBBER!!!!!! thread derailment at this time :laughing. 

I just have never seen a bag of hardware show up on site with a second set of nuts in it.

I hope that this sheds some light on my position.


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## Plumber3653 (May 5, 2010)

Going from new construction to service I found that preparing the job for the next guy really pays off when I'm the next guy. I do a mix all types of plumbing and have on occasion returned to do service on remodeled or new construction homes. Whether it is double-nutting a toilet or adding a few isolation valves, a couple of minutes preparing today could save you a lot of headaches down the road.


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

the double nutting is well worth it if you have a constant repeat client base. makes short work of it and the customer cant buy a set off the shelf around here to compare the price. makes a no questions asked extra dollar or two in the pocket.


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## Ishmael (Dec 9, 2009)

Avoid all the arguments that pit new construction plumbers against service plumbers. Just use these:

http://www.youtube.com/user/setfast#p/a/u/1/YcZ1Gpdd3uc

All brass, no cutting (to get the bolt caps on). They may cost a little more, but they're re-usable.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Ishmael said:


> Avoid all the arguments that pit new construction plumbers against service plumbers. Just use these:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/setfast#p/a/u/1/YcZ1Gpdd3uc
> 
> All brass, no cutting (to get the bolt caps on). They may cost a little more, but they're re-usable.


Saw those in my Wolverine catalog. I prefer a standard flat head that actually turns a bit under the flange. The Setfast bolt seems to have very little material actually grabbing under the flange. I also thought it was interesting that in the demo video, the gentleman held the bolt from underneath the flange to start the nut. 

I do like the idea though.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Little tip, 

On some flanges, I put a brass washer on the closet bolt, under the flange. Then bolt the closet bolt to the flange. It really spreads out the load. I take a small set of bolt cutters, and cut 2 flats on the washer, so it will fit under the flange.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I always turn the head of the bolt 90 degrees after I put it in the flange, spreads out the load that way.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

The wax we buy only comes with double nuts. However I have seen wax at the box stores that come single nutted. Ditto for horned wax. Supply house wax horns are 4" wide. Big box wax will reduce down.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Little tip,
> 
> On some flanges, I put a brass washer on the closet bolt, under the flange. Then bolt the closet bolt to the flange. It really spreads out the load. I take a small set of bolt cutters, and cut 2 flats on the washer, so it will fit under the flange.


 
I've done this on flanges that have pulled up a bit or are on their way out and the customer won't pay for a flange replacement. It does give the bolts more to grab with.




Paul


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumber3653 said:


> Going from new construction to service I found that preparing the job for the next guy really pays off when I'm the next guy. I do a mix all types of plumbing and have on occasion returned to do service on remodeled or new construction homes. Whether it is double-nutting a toilet or adding a few isolation valves, a couple of minutes preparing today could save you a lot of headaches down the road.


I whole heartedly agree! I have run into more problems that were compounded by the fact that there was no isolation. Had a leak in a high rise on a 12" glycol line in the penthouse of a 54 story high rise. It took DAYS AND DAYS to drain out all of that pink and then pump it back in...

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## jmreid73 (Feb 20, 2009)

Right up there with the fat Kohler I would include the Espree from jacuzzi. Hate that thing! Only bright spot I can think of with this thing is you don't have to cut the flange bolts.


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