# Cust Suppliied Material



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Ok I go set a supplied Cadet 3 today, I get there and I already see tape on the outside of the box, 1st clue it was a return from someone else, I ask where she got it, yep, Hell Depot, look at the bottom of toilet, 2nd clue, some wax on the bottom, ok so tell cust about it, she said no biggie install it, ok I do, no dam bowl caps. All else went fine.

This pisses me off the most about HD or others, thet don't check on returns for completeness, they tape of the boxes and put back on the shelf, just another rant about HD that's all.

Thanks for listening.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

It's not just HD. I needed a replacement blower for a Bradford White PDX2-50T6FBN heater last week because the 4 month old one was howling. The wholesaler said no problem about sending me a new one, but they would charge me for it and send a credit when they recieved the faulty back. I call the HO with the good news that there was one in stock and Iwould install it the next day. I get the "new" blower from the trucking company, open the DUCT TAPED box and see a blower with dust and solder all over it. The customer was stuck without hot water so I installed it anyways. It worked but when I checked my account I had been charged for a new one!:furious:. There was no cost to the HO for the replacement, she is just happy to be able to shower again and didn't care that it was used. Still trying to sort it out with the Wholesaler.


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I thought they had to return used toilet back to manufacter??? I sure wouldn't want a used toilet in my house or ridding in my nice carpeted back floor board or seat of my wifes jeep


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I told the HO to not take open boxes again.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

I always give my speech to HO when they supply material.... It never helps but it makes me feel better.:yes:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

It is a code violation in Chicago to reinstall used fixtures, unless they are going back in their original positions.

It is a violation of National Health Code for anyone to sell a toilet seat that has been returned.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I put a HO supplied disposer in one time. It was short the outlet elbow.

I told him I would wait here on the clock while you drive back to lowes for another one. Or, I can leave right now and try to reschedule in a couple weeks. I sat in the truck for an hour and a half while he drove the 60 mile round trip to lowes. 

He always had me supply all parts after that. Go figure:yes:


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> It is a code violation in Chicago to reinstall used fixtures, unless they are going back in their original positions.
> 
> It is a violation of National Health Code for anyone to sell a toilet seat that has been returned.


Same here...


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

*Lady done wrong*

KTS: Sorry off topic for a sec.

I know you always mention it against code here! Does your code inforcement really go out to every job???? 

Here we have inspectors that can't tell there A$$ from a hole in the ground. The licensing board don't have the man power or time to go and check job sites for license Plumbers. Only God and the HO that just got screwed over by the scum bag! 

Reason I'm a little bent out of shape is. I went to look at a sewer replacement job and went into the ladies basement and her drain pipe looked like some type of Kings Island ride (This lady is in a wheel chair for life can't go down stairs to see if she was done right.) I took pic and shown her what I found. :furious::furious: If I could find that piece of  I would turn him in after I beat him up side the head for doing that to the helpless lady in the wheel chair. The poor lady said the man was a License Plumber. :blink:

I know my laws, rules and regulatons just wish we had the enforcement like I gather you have up where you live.

OK I feel a little better!


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I don't reinstall fixtures for the simple fact that it is taboo to do so.


I learned back in the 80's that no matter what the hell you try to "reuse"... it will leak/break/having you coming back to do it over again.


Learned my lesson years ago and that was the end of that nonsense.


I hear there's landlords that will reinstall used water heaters...no thank you.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Inspectors here are only for new construction. Nobody pulls permits for retrofits. I wish something could be done to change that. Too many hacks doing everything as cheap as they can while charging what they can.


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

No (very little) code enforcement in SC either! The rules are on the books to pull a permit for certain job, then you go to pull a permit and they say "Oh, you don't need a permit for that." 

One small city officially requires a permit for any job over a $100.00. Every job is over $100.00. Can you imagine every plumber pulling a permit under this scenario? Very confusing for the plumber to know what he is supposed to do.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Plumbcrazy said:


> No (very little) code enforcement in SC either! The rules are on the books to pull a permit for certain job, then you go to pull a permit and they say "Oh, you don't need a permit for that."
> 
> One small city officially requires a permit for any job over a $100.00. Every job is over $100.00. Can you imagine every plumber pulling a permit under this scenario? Very confusing for the plumber to know what he is supposed to do.


We have one town here like that. You have to pull a permit to change a washer in a faucet, a wax ring, etc. They actually enforce it and will yoke your license in that town if you get caught working without it. You should see customers jaws drop when they see the $200 permit fee ($125 to the town and $75 to us for filing it) on top of their bill. We charge $550 plus $50 tax to change a wax ring in that town.

As for customer supplied materials if you supply it the warranty is for workmanship only. We just had a faucet this week that was bad out of the box. We supplied it and it wasted an hour and a half returning it. Had the customer supplied it they may have saved a twenty dollar markup but it would have cost them $250 in labor.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

A month or so ago I installed a ho supplied utility sink and faucet. It was the cheapest piece of crap sink and faucet I have ever seen. I think I might have even posted about it here or at CT. The plastic sink was barely thicker than a trash bag and there was no visible component of the faucet that was not plastic. I warned her at the time that this was not really what she wanted but she insisted that she just needed something that would look decent because she was about to put her house on the market.

I just left her house about an hour ago. One of the supplies popped off of the plastic faucet stem. She thinks maybe one of the workmen who had been there accidentally did it when he was washing his hands yesterday. It flooded her downstairs, destroyed the cabinet and had her on the verge of tears.

I did NOT give her the "I told you so". I just reassured her that it was going to be alright and gently but forcefully suggested that she let me provide the sink and faucet this time. She agreed.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> A month or so ago I installed a ho supplied utility sink and faucet. It was the cheapest piece of crap sink and faucet I have ever seen. I think I might have even posted about it here or at CT. The plastic sink was barely thicker than a trash bag and there was no visible component of the faucet that was not plastic. I warned her at the time that this was not really what she wanted but she insisted that she just needed something that would look decent because she was about to put her house on the market.
> 
> I just left her house about an hour ago. One of the supplies popped off of the plastic faucet stem. She thinks maybe one of the workmen who had been there accidentally did it when he was washing his hands yesterday. It flooded her downstairs, destroyed the cabinet and had her on the verge of tears.
> 
> *I did NOT give her the "I told you so". I just reassured her that it was going to be alright and gently but forcefully suggested that she let me provide the sink and faucet this time. She agreed.*



I have had similar experiences. You handled it well brother! Keep selling like that with the customer's best interest in mind and you'll always prosper!:thumbup:


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

One of my biggest problems before flat rate was owner-supplied faucets and fixtures. There was far too much pressure to not put a markup on them and back then the markup was important. But now I have customer-supplied prices in the book that make me as much money as if I had supplied it and no guarantee on the parts.

If something supplied by a customer is too far over the junk line, I will refuse to install it. I don't need to be sued for someone's house being destroyed while they insist that I must have installed it incorrectly.


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

Herk said:


> If something supplied by a customer is too far over the junk line, I will refuse to install it. I don't need to be sued for someone's house being destroyed while they insist that I must have installed it incorrectly.


We feel the same way. Sounds like Smellslike$2me got lucky. A different homeowner very well could have tried to sue claiming they didn't realize what damage could be caused by the faucet. As business owners, we can have all kinds of liabilities for a homeowner to sign off on - it doesn't mean it is enforceable or will withstand a lawsuit. Anyone can sue us and it will cost us to defend whether we are innocent or guilty.

A supplier told me that some plumbers around here hate installing customer supplied faucets so much that when the open the box, they will slide an important part into their pants. After the plumber disconnects the faucet, he acts as if he just realized all the new parts aren't in the box.

We don't do this and wouldn't respect someone who did . . .BUT, I can certainly see why plumbers are driven to do this.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Plumbcrazy said:


> We feel the same way. Sounds like Smellslike$2me got lucky. A different homeowner very well could have tried to sue claiming they didn't realize what damage could be caused by the faucet. As business owners, we can have all kinds of liabilities for a homeowner to sign off on - it doesn't mean it is enforceable or will withstand a lawsuit. Anyone can sue us and it will cost us to defend whether we are innocent or guilty.
> 
> A supplier told me that some plumbers around here hate installing customer supplied faucets so much that when the open the box, they will slide an important part into their pants. After the plumber disconnects the faucet, he acts as if he just realized all the new parts aren't in the box.
> 
> We don't do this and wouldn't respect someone who did . . .BUT, I can certainly see why plumbers are driven to do this.


You may be right. I will say this, I will not be installing this set up again regardless of what the ho wants. If I have to I will gracefully suggest to the ho that we might not be the right plumbing company for them.


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## SPENCE (Sep 12, 2008)

I let customers supply products but i tell them if there is issues with the product keep the manual to call the man. because its their product i'm labor only. I have customers all the time that get a new sink and want to re-use the faucet and strainers, that i wont do.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

SPENCE said:


> I have customers all the time that get a new sink and want to re-use the faucet and strainers, that i wont do.


Deck mounted faucets we leave if they want to. If it's attached to the sink it gets replaced almost all the time. I say almost because their are rare exceptions where we will re-use a faucet if it's a good faucet that's fairly new or if we installed the faucet recently. Re-using strainers is just ridiculous though.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

I always attempt to sell a faucet with the sink. Pull a nice shiny one out of the box and compare it against the sink with the old. Makes an easier decision for the customer. When going on a service call I load up new replacements, saves running to the shop to get samples.


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## That One Guy (Sep 14, 2008)

I always try to influence the ho's decision to reinstal used parts with warranty on my parts versus no warranty on their parts. With the quality of some of todays parts I almost dont want to warranty those ethier. 

I also dont like the fact that they can go down to HD and get sold on complete garbage that they want you to instal, then when you end up with missing parts or a defective part and they come to you first mad that they have a problem.

They sell tiolets that can flush 10 mules and a sandwich, but fail to mention that it wont be enough to push waste through theyre 50 yr old clay sewer line and will cause a nasty sludge blockage in a short time. Probably because they dont know.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

We have this a lot here. I fear our industry is going to copy the electrical industry who has light shops every where. An electrical fixture is easy, wire nuts and thats it. Too many variables in our industry. i now fact an extra 4.5 hours to a flat rate job for h/o supplied. I also insist that connection materials are supplied buy me. I mark them up high. I have even heard that some of our local supply houses are selling to homeowners direct. I think the biggest frustration comes when they call you from home depot and start asking questions. They think they are saving money but our time for this is much more expensive than the little mark up we would have charged. 

I have a buddy who likes to send them back and forth to home depot one wax ring at a time. I am not that mean but he plows a path for the next guy who goes to that customer and they are more than willing to let you supply the material. LOL


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

When they ask if it will be cheaper if they buy it direct I tell them yes, BUT I give them recommendations on where to go. Half the time they heed my advice and buy from my suppliers, half of them don't. I ALWAYS get call backs on the big box stores products. ALWAYS


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I have no problem installing customer supplied junk...
As long as I install it properly I make money...
Sometimes I even get paid twice for the same job!

Sorry your Am. Std. lav faucet is defective...
See its not leaking from where I hooked the supplies to it...
do you want a delta off my truck that doesn't leak?
That will be $XXX.XX in addition to the charge for installing this one...


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

A good example of a HO supplied faucet is the Moen that was sold at Wally's. They probably have something even cheaper now, but an old fellow called me one day to say that he'd just bought one and installed it himself and it was leaking and he couldn't understand why.

When I got there, I found a 100% plastic faucet with the Moen name on it, made in China.

If you've ever taken one of these apart, they basically have a chromed plastic cover over plastic tubes. The end pieces with the cartridges are fastened to the center spout piece with O-rings. If you twist them slightly out of line while installing them, water sprays out.

That's the kind of thing I refuse to install. No plastic faucets. 

There are a lot of box store sinks that are so warped that they look like a Dali painting. But look at all the money you're saving!

Pay for quality, cry only once.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Worked on a no name triple compartment sink faucet today. Faucet washers were worn out, faucet is only 6 months old. I carried the stems up to my supplier and we couldn't even match it in the books. Rebuilt them and told the customer it will happen again and when it does I will let her pick from t&S or Zurn that way I know I wont have to fool with it every 6 months


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

I would rather spend 5 minutes discussing price at the begining of a job, then a lifetime defending poor quality...... Zig Ziglar


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## That One Guy (Sep 14, 2008)

Im sure you guys get calls to repair Glacier Bay faucets, I hate them and also the fact that the only place to get parts for them is hd. I cant always sell a faucet when money is an issue.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

That One Guy said:


> Im sure you guys get calls to repair Glacier Bay faucets, I hate them and also the fact that the only place to get parts for them is hd. I cant always sell a faucet when money is an issue.


I admit I have put them in before for people after warning them with no warranty:thumbdown:....I REFUSE to service them though. I offer to replace it, and after I explain why, most customers agree to it.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

I personally like the toilet to go's in a box:laughing:


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## That One Guy (Sep 14, 2008)

service guy said:


> I admit I have put them in before for people after warning them with no warranty:thumbdown:....I REFUSE to service them though. I offer to replace it, and after I explain why, most customers agree to it.


 
I hear ya, I have also instaled a few ho supplied glacier bay faucets.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> I personally like the toilet to go's in a box:laughing:


Don't ya love those zinc plated steel tank bolts...
Job security!:thumbup:


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

Glacier Bay & Pegasus - We have installed. However, we do not chase parts that are only available at Home Depot or Lowes. We tell the customer the plumbing supply house does not stock the parts. If they say HD or Lowes carries the parts, we say "Oooohhhh, that explains it. We don't shop at HD or Lowes, but you are more than welcome to buy the parts and we will repair it." At this point we strongly suggest they get a quality faucet explaining repairs will continue costing them much more in the long run.


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