# Glued pipe - most efficient way to install



## Castiron (May 4, 2010)

Hi there folks,

Just changed from commercial to residential and finding the switch from CI to ABS a pain in the a$$. For example 3x 45's going into a wye and that kind of stuff. I am used to laying out on ceiling or wall, drilling hangers etc and then installing. You can take it apart of course for CI and cheat the coupling a little but with abs once you're glued you are .... done. One of my JM does it by holding the fittings in place and then measuring. It works ok but I can't help but think there must be a better way than balancing on a ladder with 2 or 3 fittings and a tapemeasure.

How do you get it close to perfect?


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Measure off of centers just like every other plumbing fitting!


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## Castiron (May 4, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> Measure off of centers just like every other plumbing fitting!


What if im going from horizontal to vertical with 3&45's


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

Castiron said:


> What if im going from horizontal to vertical with 3&45's


 Same thing measure center to center.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Are you a pipefitter or a plumber? They are different trades here.
In plumbing we measure off the centers of the fitting and figure our 45's using 1.414 or whatever method you prefer. If I am using 2 45's to go from Hor. to Ver. I would glue them together making a 90, glue them on the end of a piece of pipe that is to long and pull my length off the center to the end of pipe for cut length.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Practice. 

Learn what method works best for you then get real good at it. Fitting allowances are fitting allowances. 

Lately I've been neglecting my math and just throwing out the tape. I really need to stop and go back to measuring then using math to figure fittings.


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## Castiron (May 4, 2010)

Plumber apprentice. I am ok with fitting allowances and the 45 offsett. What kills me is when you roll the 45's how far to roll them. Particularly when i have to use 3 of them to say get by a potlight or make it into a hole. With cast i would just assemble with loose bands and then roll them until i get it right. With abs it seems just to be guesswork and next thing i have some pipe glued together and just one of the 45 is rolled too much and i am glewed (combination of gued and screwed). And all the time i am thinking - i should be smarter than a pipe - there must be a better way!

Appreciate the help and the quick reply. Will persevere at this - it can't be that hard.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

In that case assemble lightly with noglue and cleaner and mark the fitting where they need to be when you glue them on the outer edges of the hubs. Sharpie silver for ABS


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Use the ole sharpie marks, just dont post pics here with your marks on the pipe and fittings.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> Use the ole sharpie marks, just dont post pics here with your marks on the pipe and fittings.


Ah Ha .... We got ourselves a dry fitter here


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## Bellboy (Jan 21, 2012)

Just remember don't primer it before you dry fit it!


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

work faster than the glue dries and you won't have to dry fit and mark fittings.

how do you know a home owner did the plumbing? sharpy marks on the pipe and fittings.

By the way I'm a plumber not a fitter------i hold the fitting with one hand and try to get a measurement balanced on a ladder while holding the tape measure out farther that it will stay up with the other. 

then I forget the measurement before I get to the saw.....


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Ah Ha .... We got ourselves a dry fitter here


 
Actually I just put the pipe and fittings together, not a whole lot of thought goes into it. Just another day at work.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I am sure everyone of you are legends in your own minds:notworthy:, but here in the real plumbing world we all know that a little cleaner takes the sharpie right off :yes: or do you paint over yours with the purple stuff? I didn't say every time I said in the situation he mentioned.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Why didn't anyone bust his balls for using ABS? I thought only hacks and trailers used ABS, and me untill all the supply houses stopped selling it around here.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

deerslayer said:


> I am sure everyone of you are legends in your own minds:notworthy:, but here in the real plumbing world we all know that a little cleaner takes the sharpie right off :yes: or do you paint over yours with the purple stuff? I didn't say every time I said in the situation he mentioned.


ofcoarse we all mark pipes. I do hate when I have to mark a fitting then I can't get it apart to glue it. or I wipe the mark of with primer.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

It's kinda like riding your bike down deadmans hill and negotiating the sharp corner at the bottom without wiping out and flying over the pagewire fence and landing in mean Baba Gregootches raspberry patch.
You take it slow and calculating the first time. After several rides down you're going no-hands at top speed. _(aaaah, that was a lifetime ago. :laughing_

Basically it's practice. Layout carefully and try to stay parallel and perpendicular to the building framing. Get used to center to center measurements (same as you should have been using for CI actually) and knowing how much to subtract to figure your end of pipe measurement for whatever fitting you're running to/from.

Also you'll notice the little raised lineup marks on the hubs of your fittings. They're there for a reason and most mfgrs put them on at 45 deg increments. You'll soon get an eye to know how much to offset these marks to glue 2 45's together and NOT make a true 90. For example if you're running a horizontal at 2% slope toward a stack then a true 90 would kick your stack out of plumb. Turning the 45's slightly will give you a 90 plus deg elbow and you won't have to resort to the "_10% deflection rule_" in order to get a plumb stack.

Practice.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

KCplumber said:


> Why didn't anyone bust his balls for using ABS? I thought only hacks and trailers used ABS, and me untill all the supply houses stopped selling it around here.


What the hell are you talking about

We have been using ABS up here for over 40 years


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## SHAUN C (Feb 16, 2011)

Put your level on the face of the fitting then read the horizontal bubble


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Find your centers. You'll know the socket depths after awhile, be able to figure out most pipe positions from that design.

Everything we did was never by the centers. It was always by test/trial by error fitting.


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## Abel Plumber (Sep 3, 2011)

saysflushable said:


> then I forget the measurement before I get to the saw.....


 havent we all


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## brass plumbing (Jul 30, 2008)

*no abs here*

the abs isn't used in our neighborhood. the manufactured home industry brings it in from outta state & we adapt(transition glue).
sched 40 bristol used in michigan


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> What the hell are you talking about
> 
> We have been using ABS up here for over 40 years


Don't u remember the thread PVC vs. ABS and a bunch of guys were bashing ABS. I'm pissed that the wholesalers quit selling it here. I didn't mind paying more, they all quit last year and I can't stand the smell of PVC glue now after huffing ABS for 30 years. Sorry getting off thread


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

the trick to ABS is measure twice cut six


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Damn...

I cut it twice and it's still too short... :laughing:


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## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

Trial and error. The best plumbers I've worked with eyeball it and swear alot. Then worked real fast from glue point. A few guys I've worked with do the calculation and adding the hub centre thing and it works but it's slooooow compared to the old eye it up


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## Castiron (May 4, 2010)

PrecisePlumbing said:


> Trial and error. The best plumbers I've worked with eyeball it and swear alot. Then worked real fast from glue point. A few guys I've worked with do the calculation and adding the hub centre thing and it works but it's slooooow compared to the old eye it up


Well so far the swearing I've got


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

do people here really use math on the job?

"One second let me get my scientific calculator to find out how long of a piece I need to cut"


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Castiron said:


> Hi there folks,
> 
> Just changed from commercial to residential and finding the switch from CI to ABS a pain in the a$$. For example 3x 45's going into a wye and that kind of stuff. I am used to laying out on ceiling or wall, drilling hangers etc and then installing. You can take it apart of course for CI and cheat the coupling a little but with abs once you're glued you are .... done. One of my JM does it by holding the fittings in place and then measuring. It works ok but I can't help but think there must be a better way than balancing on a ladder with 2 or 3 fittings and a tapemeasure.
> 
> How do you get it close to perfect?


No Way! This is so funny because of a previous thread. Now the goons are gonna be out about holding fittings up & not being able to take-off measurements without that. This is gonna be funny.


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## rombo (Jul 17, 2008)

Mike Jessome said:


> do people here really use math on the job?
> 
> "One second let me get my scientific calculator to find out how long of a piece I need to cut"


I use simple math and teach all my apprentices to do the same. All you need is your cell phone. Fitting allowance, offset, and good ole 1.414 are far from scientific.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I know pvc pulls apart for quite a while after joints have been made. You make a mistake and stick your hammer handle in the hub and lever the fitting off.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

I worked with a bunch of fitters in iraq. it was neet watching them do all the measurements and math to build a big 4 inch or bigger manifold and have it hit the marks when it was put in place. but sometimes we would be running 1/2 inch water pipe. COME ON hold those fittings and measure. lets cut, thread and screw pipe together instead of doing math.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> Use the ole sharpie marks, just dont post pics here with your marks on the pipe and fittings.


I use a pencil and make my marks


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> I use a pencil and make my marks


I would fire each and everyone of you pencil marking sobs


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> I would fire each and everyone of you pencil marking sobs


Why?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> Why?


Why

You ask me why

It's art

If you got to start to marking fittings and pipe to figure your next move you are screwed ....

You should be thinking well in advance of that


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Why
> 
> You ask me why
> 
> ...


Ahh the beauty of an eraser


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

There is something I find very comical about someone holding 2 fittings in the air and trying to measure between them...

I don't find it comical enough to want to work with them though... :laughing:

Doing the math is too slow?
Yet dry fitting and doing it wrong is faster?
Try doing the math and doing it enough that you are good at it...
You might be surprised at how fast it is when you know what you are doing...:whistling2:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Mike Jessome said:


> do people here really use math on the job?....


:yes:

It has it's place Mike, even in a messy sewer ditch.

As far as eyeballing goes, some people just don't have the ability to visualize a line up in mid air. But even on a good day, eyeballing is guessing.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)




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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

i use math sometimes and the eyeball method other times, but mostly a combination of both, depending on the situation.

the trick is to look ahead and have a game plan before starting, some guys just can't visualize what they want to achieve to get the end result.

i had one helper that HAD to put say a 1/2" 90 on the pipe to get a measurement, instead of just measuring to the face of pipe.

when he started to do that on CPVC and had dryfits, that was the end of it LOL


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I would fire each and everyone of you pencil marking sobs


Yeah right. Must be the Rye talking.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

I like Bayside's approach. For crying out loud, if you hafta resort to math and can't come up with a reasonable figure in your head then it's perfectly acceptible to scrawl some math out on a nearby stud or joist. "Try piecing" may be okay as long as you don't have to cut the try piece, and holding fittings in the air and trying to dangle your tape in between might work for some, but c'mon... most of the angles you'll be working with are 90's and 45's. For 45's if your offset is 44" then your run is also 44" and the travel will be just under 1 1/2 times either of those, center to center! (1.414 to be exact).

Of course now I have an iPhone and I just press a button and say, "Siri, how long should this pipe be."


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*Everyone should be at their top of game after 15-20 years in this trade*

It seems like after you've done this long enough, the pencil, the tape measure, level... it all disappears from your hands.

It's because you've done it for years, you've done it countless times over and over.


Your mind picks up what is level, looking at distances and gauging, knowing how your fittings are going to go. Of course, it wasn't like this in the beginning of my profession but now I reap the benefits of doing it for so long.


My work... it's always level. I get very creative using every fitting at my disposal, knowing the angles and what works, what doesn't work. 


Sometimes I can't even explain how I put up pipe because it's like a trance when I'm working and I just keep going along, fitting as I go. And every time, the work looks good and it's on to the next job.

Of course, service is far more forgiving than new construction but you won't see me hacking pipe into the walls because I know it's getting covered up. I got more pride than that.

If I could, I'd never glue another pvc pipe. I want to be done with glue and cleaner as I've been limiting my exposure heavily, not knowing what's coming down the road someday.

That concern along with the emissions from flux all these years while they experiment with the ingredients/chemical makeup of those without knowing the long term effects on those around it all the time. I do keep a fan on me all the time... around glue and cleaner and the obvious soldering.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

NAaah, just use ferncos, that way you have a little play if you cut it too short. :laughing:


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

Didn't know they still made these, i still have one of Dad's old ones. Used this for years.



http://www.tools-plus.com/lufkin-626l.html


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Didn't know they still made these, i still have one of Dad's old ones. Used this for years.
> 
> http://www.tools-plus.com/lufkin-626l.html


I. Have about 4 of those and I thought I'm the only one use them...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Miguel said:


> I like Bayside's approach. For crying out loud, if you hafta resort to math and can't come up with a reasonable figure in your head then it's perfectly acceptible to scrawl some math out on a nearby stud or joist. "Try piecing" may be okay as long as you don't have to cut the try piece, and holding fittings in the air and trying to dangle your tape in between might work for some, but c'mon... most of the angles you'll be working with are 90's and 45's. For 45's if your offset is 44" then your run is also 44" and the travel will be just under 1 1/2 times either of those, center to center! (1.414 to be exact).
> 
> Of course now I have an iPhone and I just press a button and say, "Siri, how long should this pipe be."


I thought the 1.414 is only good for threaded pipes.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> I thought the 1.414 is only good for threaded pipes.


The formulas never change. Only the fitting take-off varies.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> The formulas never change. Only the fitting take-off varies.


I was pulling ya legs....


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> I. Have about 4 of those and I thought I'm the only one use them...


I was in my teens when I was introduced to them, but for the most part, we eyeballed the rest, never used the math. Most offsets worked out well, but I screwed up my fair share as well. Age is not beneficial to eyeballing either.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Didn't know they still made these, i still have one of Dad's old ones. Used this for years.
> http://www.tools-plus.com/lufkin-626l.html





rjbphd said:


> I. Have about 4 of those and I thought I'm the only one use them...


can you guys give me a brief tutorial on how to use such a thing ?


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

They are easy find your offset or run amount put finger on that mark on normal " scale flip rule over and it gives you the multiplied travel piece subtract fitting takeoffs and cut.

You can also multiply your offset or run by 1.5 in your head say your offset is 6 X 1.5= 9 now subtract 1/16" X 9 (8 7/16") and that will be very close to exact until you get to really long pieces. Anything under 1' I do as above in my head.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Didn't know they still made these, i still have one of Dad's old ones. Used this for years.
> 
> http://www.tools-plus.com/lufkin-626l.html


I love them rulers, i got a few of
Em

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Castiron said:


> Plumber apprentice. I am ok with fitting allowances and the 45 offsett. What kills me is when you roll the 45's how far to roll them. Particularly when i have to use 3 of them to say get by a potlight or make it into a hole. With cast i would just assemble with loose bands and then roll them until i get it right. With abs it seems just to be guesswork and next thing i have some pipe glued together and just one of the 45 is rolled too much and i am glewed (combination of gued and screwed). And all the time i am thinking - i should be smarter than a pipe - there must be a better way!
> 
> Appreciate the help and the quick reply. Will persevere at this - it can't be that hard.



A squared + B squared = C squared. Plug in your measurements and find the squared root of C, multiply that by 1.412 and take off for the fittings, and cut your piece.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Killertoiletspider said:


> A squared + B squared = C squared. Plug in your measurements and find the squared root of C, multiply that by 1.412 and take off for the fittings, and cut your piece.


I respectfully disagree! A sqaured + B sqaured = c sqaured but the root of c is your answer no need for 1.414 if you do it that way


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> I respectfully disagree! A sqaured + B sqaured = c sqaured but the root of c is your answer no need for 1.414 if you do it that way


Dude! Just use a calculator with rise and run. Y'all are thinking way too hard. Lol


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I use the constant 1.414 only rarely, I dont like center to center and prefer end to center measurements myself ! But the journeyman who taught me was an end to center kind of teacher so thats the way I do it ! Usually I fit by joining the pipe together from quesstimations which I always make a 1/4 inch longer than my guess. Seems to work or else It can be recut!


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## Castiron (May 4, 2010)

Hey everyone, thanks for all the input. Ironically I didn't have to do abs since I started my post but lots of other stuff. Shame really because I want to get good at it - still that won't mean Ill enjoy it, but I want to rock this material! 

I'm comfortable using the 1.414 of so required etc. For the really strange stuff like 3x45 etc I might just semi dry fit and then add 1/2" to every hub and see how that goes. Still not convinced of the eyeball all technique and will not stand on ladder juggling fittings and tapemeasure - experience might lead me there - but it'll be kicking and screaming all the way.

Thanks all.


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