# GC's mark up on subs.



## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

I have a family that are customers of mine. I did a new home for the mother, a cabin for the son, and now the daughter is doing a decent sized remodel. The contractor involved with the daughters remodel, is the same one that built the mothers house. He called me 3 weeks ago and asked me to bid a job, which I declined because I'm too busy. He didn't tell me it was the daughters remodel, and she called and basically begged me to do it. So I said ok. Who needs nights and weekends. So basically the homeowner secured me for the job. Now the contractor is telling her he charges 10% of the subs price for securing them. Pretty standard, but he tells her thats what he charges for securing the sub- contractors. I just don't think he is entitled to $1400.00 when the daughter secured me for the job. I sure as hell wouldn't have piled this much on my plate for a GC. I will for a good customer. Especially when they have great things to say about me, and own a huge lumber yard. Anyone ever run into something similar, and is this GC really entitled to 10% of $14,000.00 for doing nothing?


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Standard out here for me was 10% profit and 10% overhead for the General. Running subs and coordinating crews costs money. I have even worked on large customs where the designers were paid 50% of the completed job price. 

Mark


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Was working for a remodeler that I just started working for, was praising me up one side and down another. That was until I gave him the bills for the work I did. 

Through the grapevine he dumped me as told through one of his staff because he couldn't margin above my rates. I guess he assumed that I would jump at the volume of work and reduce my rates like everyone else does for him.

Him and I have been driving past each other for 6 years now, not waving, nothing. I did nothing wrong but do my job and charge a regular price. 

He's went through 3 plumbers since our time together.:laughing:


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> Standard out here for me was 10% profit and 10% overhead for the General. Running subs and coordinating crews costs money. I have even worked on large customs where the designers were paid 50% of the completed job price.
> 
> Mark


 I get the 10% that contractors charge. But on the mothers home, he never called me once. The mother called and said it was ready, I went out, roughed in and got down the road. He didn't have to do crap. That 50% designer fee seems a lil steep. Wow.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

LEAD INGOT said:


> I get the 10% that contractors charge. But on the mothers home, he never called me once. The mother called and said it was ready, I went out, roughed in and got down the road. He didn't have to do crap. That 50% designer fee seems a lil steep. Wow.


The 10 + 10 is generally when you are working through the GC and he is paying you. If the owner hired you it is a different story.

The high designer fees are for homes like those scheduled to be in Architectural Digest before ground is even broken. It is all about what kind of demand there is for your services. They don't just design the home they do all of the interior. They are also the homes that are the hardest (pia) to work on and make the least sense.

Mark


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

If you are billing the homeowner directly, wtf does the gc have to do with it?

If you are billing the gc, not much you can do about what he marks up.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Me personally, I am about sick of the GCs I work for. Don't use my business, to float your business. General Contractor. CON is the key word in that name. SOBs really piss me off. Looking for the cheapest hack they can find, so they can mark there chit way on up there.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Me personally, I am about sick of the GCs I work for. Don't use my business, to float your business. General Contractor. CON is the key word in that name. SOBs really piss me off. Looking for the cheapest hack they can find, so they can mark there chit way on up there.


 
We had this builder Costanza Homes that on their 2 storys back in the day would use open web floor trusses. Then they switched to 2x12's. I asked one of the supers why they did that and he said it was cheaper. I asked if they passed the savings to their customers and he said no. Obviously.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

General Contractors have a negative rep around here. Sounds like their the same all over the country. I can think of only a few that I would consider allowing to build me a home.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I had a GC call me and asked if I would do a job for one of my regular clients. He was puzzled why she didn't want to his plumber. I said, certainly...especially since my client requested me. I asked what the payments arrangements were, he said just bill her directly and put what I thought was fair on the invoice for him and we'd get together later. WTF................

I had another GC that was always beating on me about pricing....crying about the bad economy and how we would raise our prices back up once the economy got better...yeah right. He beat on me one too many times and I invoiced him for every little item and extra I could...he said I was hijacking him....I said, so what...YOU'RE FIRED. Took my check to his bank and cashed it...........so long!!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I have a few GC's I work with too, that the only reason they call me, is cuz the customer requested me. Then they act like their your best friend, when your there, & wanna take you to other jobs they have going, to bid on, & I never hear back. Or they want you to come & fix up the BS, their cheap plumber left behind. I have a simple rule, I give them the "3 strikes & your out phrase". I bid 3 jobs for you, if I don't get 1, your out!!
Last GC I worked with at my customers house, has me bid 2 big jobs for him, which I never saw, & I know he got both the jobs. Then he calls me & wants me to put a new cartridge in a Kohler faucet, that was defective, on one of the jobs. He said his plumber is too far away for such a small job. I told him I would stick that cartridge in, only in 1 place, & thats where the sun don't shine pal. They all treat you like dirt IMO. I don't need them, or their, I'll pay you when I get around to it, attitude.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

1 strike for me. 


I was in a similar situation. Customer called me , told me his gc's plumber was in the hospital. Can I finish the job? I call around to some plumbers I know, and come to find that the gc's plumber is alive and well, does not even have the sniffles. . He just could not take the poor scheduling and slow pay anymore. 

So, I tell my customer sure, but I will be working for and billing you directly. Gc agrees. So that all goes ok.

The GC asks me to look at another job, which I do. He tells me ha is not getting a permit. Kitchen and laundry remodel. "No thanks", I tell him. "I do not work without permits"


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Well, I just got off the phone with the customer and we decided to go with 2 bids. Part of the job is going to be replacing every bit of waterlines in the house, and replaceing alot of the illegal dwv in the basement in order to send new lines to the remodeled section of the house. So the homeowner is paying for it anyway, and we threw several thousand more on their part to cut into his 10%. Now instead of $1400.00 being his cut, it's going to be $600.00. Problem solved. I know and work with a handfull of good GC's. And I understand their 10%, they actually cooridinate, make calls and actually look out for me when framing. This putz, no way. To top it off he just called me with a monster new house he wants me to do, and he tells me the home owner will pay me in advance, per phase. So once again he has no leg work and still wants his 10%. What a jackass.:laughing:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Good job helping YOUR customer out. I can see the 10% being justified if there's the typical GC coordination involved but this guy doesn't sound like he's that involved. Heck, it might even be justified as a finders fee for good jobs like the second one you mentioned. If the customer books you and pays you, does she get a 10% discount off of the GC's bill? 







Paul


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

I swear there is a General Contractor hand book floating around out there that covers all this.

How to act like this is the only job on the face of the planet? Covered.

How to wait until the last possible minute to call a sub? Covered.

How to whine about how you're not making any money and the subs are getting rich? Covered.

How to hold money for a few months after completion by saying the job's not done yet? Covered.

My life has got a whole lot simpler after cutting a few gc's loose.


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## wundumguy (Apr 3, 2010)

I thinks some of them GC's should be paying us a 10% management fee.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

i never cared how much the gc made. i wanted them and myself to make money. i was very picky. had one customer that i gave a bid to on ac. early 80's. $4000.00 bucks. i don't hear a thing for a year. my favorite gc asks me to put in the ac. i laugh and tell him i bid the job last year. he asks how much? i tell him, he laughs and tells me he bid it at $5000.00 bucks. you should of seen the look on the owners face when i showed up. she asks what are you doing here, i said i'm here to put in the ac for roy and i just smiled. lol. breid..................:rockon:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

breid1903 said:


> i never cared how much the gc made. i wanted them and myself to make money. i was very picky. had one customer that i gave a bid to on ac. early 80's. $4000.00 bucks. i don't hear a thing for a year. my favorite gc asks me to put in the ac. i laugh and tell him i bid the job last year. he asks how much? i tell him, he laughs and tells me he bid it at $5000.00 bucks. you should of seen the look on the owners face when i showed up. she asks what are you doing here, i said i'm here to put in the ac for roy and i just smiled. lol. breid..................:rockon:


I don't think any of us cared about how much they make, the problem with most GC's, IMO, is they don't care about how much " you" make, & most of them want you to make very little. But like every profession, there are good & bad. Most of the residential GC's I come across, their #1 issue is price.I work exclusively for a few GC's, so their not all bad, just majority are bargain hunters, even if their customer is not.

I've had many GC's get a quote from me, figure my price into the job, then they land the job, & still get a cheaper guy to do the job, so they make more, & I waste more of my time.:furious:


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I dont know how it happened . Around here the GC's are peacocks...and the subs are sub. I wish back when I made my 1st decision to do new work I had a mentor. They pay slow except for a rare diamond in the rough...and side with the customer on disputes. And act like they are experts...their test is easier, they were making $50+ K a house for a while and never learned to really manage a job and properly overlay the workers. I could go on and on...and I made some money at it far a while...small margins....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Going Through All This Right Now..*



Colgar said:


> I swear there is a General Contractor hand book floating around out there that covers all this.
> 
> How to act like this is the only job on the face of the planet? Covered.
> 
> ...


I got drug into a job this winter..because they are freinds of the family

someone that buys homes, she bought this barn for 90k adn everything around it appraises for 600k....
she eventaully will makes a bundle.. 

the place is a 1910 barn that we literally had to demolish right down to scratch... she makes about 5 changes while I am trying to get started with a crew of guys on the job..

price was never discussed because we never exactly knew what we were gonna do or when..I did mention that the whole job will probably fall around 20-25k finished.... 

I charged her time and material... had 185 hours in this barn at 70 per hour..(cheap)... and a few grand in materials... the water is on, all that has to be done is to set the fixtures..

now the whineing and crying begins...

I thought you were gonna treat me better, I let you work 
on my warm property all winter long at your leisure...

So I had to re-type the bill and give her exact dates and times we were on the job.....

so now things appear that they are gonna get ugly.....

I probably will have to file a lien, 

 you are sinking 250k into a home,
but you still got to haggle with the plumber over a couple of grand beause you thought we needed the pracitice??:blink::blink:


.


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

I just finished my last job for a g.c that was a god amongst all others(his perception, not mine). I am sick of his thinking that once you sign up he then knows as much as I do about this industry and will not let us talk to H.O about their expectations(mostly hydronics systems). When jobs are done then issues arise re: not enough zones, why didn't we get bigger indirect w.h, etc... These were all custome homes in the country and were a pain in the ass because he did them at t & m and made us quote.
Well this last one I started billing hime for extras and he flipped. I was tired of taking it up the poop shoot. No more of these jack asses. Sticking to service work, reno;\'s and comercial. whewww that feels better.:thumbup:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*sticking to service work*



njoy plumbing said:


> I Well this last one I started billing hime for extras and he flipped. I was tired of taking it up the poop shoot. No more of these jack asses. Sticking to service work, reno;\'s and comercial. whewww that feels better.:thumbup:


they feel like they are giveing you a privdledge just to be 
on their job..how dare you charge for the extra trips out and 
the change orders...
.

the same with me, I stick to service work only...
I probably wont finish this barn either. 

I am too busy to get hung up there this summer......


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

well guys everybody has to make money even the GC's.

If I was a GC then hell yah I would want at least 10% of total job.... but IMO 10% is still not enough to put up with all the trades, suppliers, building inspectors and the home owner.

They should be charging in the 20% area or higher.


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