# Symmons shower valves?



## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm about to start a small bathroom remodel and my customer has ordered a Symmons shower valve, diverter, and hand wand with outlet. Anybody have an opinion on Symmons? I usually prefer to use Delta shower valves. That's the only thing Delta hasn't ruined yet. Symmons is not common in this area so I wondered if anybody has had good/bad experiences with them.


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## Turd Chaser (Dec 1, 2011)

I personally like them. They are installed in many high rises in the Milwaukee area. It can sometimes be difficult getting parts. They seem to be like bradley fixtures almost institutial grade...


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

We used a lot of them ages ago. As I recall, they were a well-made valve.


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## MAC (Aug 19, 2008)

They are used a-lot here, maybe because they are based here. The parts can be found at every supply house as well as hd and lowes in mass. They are easy to service as well.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

They are well made, I have a hard time getting parts for them in my neck of the woods. I always have to order the cartridges, nobody stocks them. That being said I work on very few.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

All there stuff is good, pricey for parts though.


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks all for the feedback! I thought I had heard good things about them. I hope my customer ordered everything properly...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I see a lot of them around here...

They usually rebuild nicely unless the water quality is detrimental towards brass...

Make sure the rough in depth is correct so the packing and diverter/volume will drain outside the wall into the shower or, tub if they start leaking.

That is the most common installation error I see with them. Properly set those leaks will drain through the hole at the bottom of the faceplate. Improperly set they will drain through the ceiling below... :yes:


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## pigskin plumber (Oct 2, 2011)

Serviced one before, parts were hard to find. Only complaint on the one I serviced was there needed more torque to shut the water off completely, it resulted in stripping the handle. Judging from it's price and material it was made from, I figured they had to be good.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Widely used in hotels. That should tell you something. Parts should be readily available. Don't expect to find parts at the hardware stores, though.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

My wife and I have had several trips in the past few months. We stayed at hotels that were maybe 6 months old or less each time. All had Symmons, and they all had temp fluctuations while showering. Some pretty dramatic. I guess pressure balance, and anti- scald doesn't apply to them?


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Symmons sucks. I had a problem with their widespread faucets, first the supply lines from the hot and cold tot he diverter leaked, special supply lines, both faucets, couldn't just put another supply line on, had to send for parts. The the new parts come in, the brass body that contained the stem, both cold side, the trim wouldn't fit, apperantly the threads were not long enough on the brass body to hold the trim on, sent back, another week, finally got the right stuff. 3 week project total, 2 widespread faucets, same house, same customer.

Fast forward, last week, installed Multiple metered lav faucets, symmons, on one, the screen check leaked, no matter how tight I got it, it leaked, so I took it apart and noticed the filter assembly that has the rubber washer built into it, this washer and filter are one piece, there was part of it missing, looked like the rubber wasn't all the full in the mold when it was made. So I figured, no biggie, used an old check becuase it looked great.

Well, then one of the faucets, no matter what, wouldn't shut off all the way, drip, drip drip. So I worked the stem thinking it just had to seat properly, same thing, took it apart, nothing inside it, remember, the checks on the hot and cold supply have inlet filters, so there is no way anything got inside, but I checked anyways. I replaced the stem, worked great. My parts are still on the desk of my sales rep as he trys to get my replacment stem from them. He has made phone calls and cc me in an email, still no parts.

I will never buy symmons again. I used to like their shower valves, but the stem plus the cold and hot seat are over priced.


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

I have a pretty hardcore clause in all my contracts regarding customer supplied fixtures. No matter how many ways you tell people that you are not responsible for their crappy fixture it still sucks for everyone in the end if the valve doesn't work. I hope it works out.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Symmons S96-2 is pretty much the valve of choice around here. Been installing them for over 30 years. Nice, well made valve.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

LEAD INGOT said:


> My wife and I have had several trips in the past few months. We stayed at hotels that were maybe 6 months old or less each time. All had Symmons, and they all had temp fluctuations while showering. Some pretty dramatic. I guess pressure balance, and anti- scald doesn't apply to them?


They are pressure balanced...

My guess is the hot water supply had some wild temperature swings going on...

Cross connection perhaps or a hacked up tankless installation throwing sandwiches...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

pigskin plumber said:


> Serviced one before, parts were hard to find. Only complaint on the one I serviced was there needed more torque to shut the water off completely, it resulted in stripping the handle. Judging from it's price and material it was made from, I figured they had to be good.


Did you replace the seats?

Not doing that will often result in the "Hard To Turnoff"


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## pigskin plumber (Oct 2, 2011)

How do you replace the seats on those valves?


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## MAC (Aug 19, 2008)

Raven products makes a good symmons tool. You can replace both seats and replace diverter with it.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

pigskin plumber said:


> How do you replace the seats on those valves?


Once you remove the stem there are 2 seats underneath...
There are special tools available from Symmons and others.
I use the one in this linked post....
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/shower-identification-12318/index3/#post169976


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I have the old school tool.


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## bikefitter0 (Nov 22, 2011)

i think it's a good valve.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Just an update. My sales rep still has not gotten the replacement parts for the parts I used on the new symmons faucets I installed.

I have seen the emails sent to the rep and to symmons. 

Only thing worse then a defective product is defective customer service.


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

*Symmons shower valves*



LEAD INGOT said:


> My wife and I have had several trips in the past few months. We stayed at hotels that were maybe 6 months old or less each time. All had Symmons, and they all had temp fluctuations while showering. Some pretty dramatic. I guess pressure balance, and anti- scald doesn't apply to them?


Symmons invented the anti scald pressure balancing valve back in 1969 or something like that.that So there must have been other issues going on at hotel for it to have temp fluctuations.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

another update.

The rep says its my fault the faucet was leaking due to debris in the line. this was not a new install but a changeout on a building that has been in service for awhile. There are inlet filter screens on the faucet. I took the cartridge apart to see if there was debris somehow in it. They will not replace the cartridge in their new faucet so I will have to buy one. 

I have heard through my adventures the last 2-3 weeks with this that when something happens like this, symmons and symmons reps do not back the customer up. 

I will, once again, never buy another symmons product. well, except for the replacment cartridge they righfully owe me. The inlet filter screen assembly that was clearly defective, since the rubber mold was half missing, well, I'm not gonna worry about that.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

It is very hard to find a company that will stand behind Their products now-a-days.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## gasaman (Oct 19, 2009)

Symmons is made practically in my backyard. I have installed and seviced them for almost 30yrs. It is what I have in my own house.


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

Just installed a Symmons Sereno shower valve and diverter. Asside from the diverter barely fitting in a 2x4 wall, the valve seemed pretty stout. From what I can tell it looks like an old school rising stem with a washer and removable seat. Lots of brass, no plastic.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I install and service tons of Symmons shower valves and they are quality valves. I have very little experience with their faucets though . Many hotels use their shower valves because they are tough. 

I agree their customer service sucks. They have a lifetime guarantee on their ta10 cartridge, good luck getting them to honor it though....


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

pauliplumber said:


> I install and service tons of Symmons shower valves and they are quality valves. I have very little experience with their faucets though . Many hotels use their shower valves because they are tough.
> 
> I agree their customer service sucks. They have a lifetime guarantee on their ta10 cartridge, good luck getting them to honor it though....


I used to install a lot of their shower valves and rebuild their valves, no problem, it all started with their crappy faucets.


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

*Symmons install*



pdxplumber said:


> Just installed a Symmons Sereno shower valve and diverter. Asside from the diverter barely fitting in a 2x4 wall, the valve seemed pretty stout. From what I can tell it looks like an old school rising stem with a washer and removable seat. Lots of brass, no plastic.


 
I hope you removed the spindal before you soildered to the valve if not you will be replacing the washer.


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

I just use that copper glue for the joints near the valve.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

pdxplumber said:


> I just use that copper glue for the joints near the valve.


Really ? :blink:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Really ? :blink:


Home inspector, said it would be fine


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

I told the home owner not to run the hot water too long, so's that way the glue don't get melted.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

^^^^^


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

pdxplumber said:


> I just use that copper glue for the joints near the valve.


Good Stuff! :thumbup:

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I checked a shower valve a few weeks ago, it was a 3 handle glacier bay tub and shower valve, plugged on the tub drop, and all the 1/2" copper joints I could see to the floor were put toghether with epoxy. the whole job was hackery and the "shower" only tub and shower valve was not functioning properly at all. bathroom remodel here we come.


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