# Faucet seat resurfacing tools



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Not all faucets have replaceable seats. Also, some faucet seats are irreplaceable because they are no longer made. But you all know this. You also know there are tools to grind/resurface the seat in old faucets. Seat resurfacing tool bits have a 3/8"-16NC female thread. Sexauer makes what i think is the best tool, but unlike most it takes a 1/4-?NS thread.


I happen to have some stainless ground/polished 3/8" rod just like the shaft of the sexauer tool so I made my own center stem that is compatible with the alignment pieces. But it's 3/8"-16NC so I can use my sexauer tool with the 3/8" bits.


The handle is 5/8" tool steel. I drilled the hole with a worn 3/8" bit so I could heat it up and get a shrink fit on the shaft. Threading the stainless 3/8" rod was definitely the hardest part. Excuse the pun!! lolz :biggrin: It kept slipping in my cordless drills chuck so I swapped on a keyed chuck from a milwaukee right angle drill.









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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Years ago I have a seat refinishing tool, but it was cheap, prob firm HD or crappy tire.(the threaded tapered guide was plastic, it cross-threaded or wouldn’t thread, and was pretty much useless. It was ok at best, It might have worked a few times.. 

I haven’t resurfaced a seat in prob 15+ years.
Now, If I can’t replace the seat In a faucet, Ill just replace the faucet.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

@Logtec Do you carry Danfoss, Emco and Waltec parts?

I have made the decision this week to stop trying to find and buy Emco and Waltec parts for those 2 handle tub/shower. These were the only faucet you can replace the seats anyway. I went to get a diverter replacement this week from a big box where I usually get and them they told me it was discontinued. I still can get it at Wolseley but it was my cue to stop. There's only a few houses and one section of apartments turned into condos in the entire city where these faucets are still in use. So they'll pay me to run around trying to see if there's any left or a replacement.

All behind those faucets are either a half wall with the lav cabinet or in other types are the water heater. From now on I'm only carrying what I have left, some cartridges. The callers after that are going to have a replacement and they'll need a tile guy to repair the hole because those faucets are too low on the tub for today's faucet spout or because it's too much problem going from the back.


Another brand is Danfoss tub/shower, I have 2 cartridges left I bought on sale and I think I'll take them off the truck. Only seen 2 houses with them in almost 4 years.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I have a couple of reseat tools, several flat facing tools and one that cuts a new grove in an old seat so there is a raised sealing edge....I spin them in my cordless drill...I use them once in a blue moon.. they work well and do the trick..


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

@Tango We carry all emco, sterling, waltec, Jameco, Galtmaster, Belanger, Tub and shower parts.. Moen of course, and when it comes to delta we just go pick up the right part..


If its before 1970 chances are its a Waltec , or a emco... if its pre 1950 its likely galtmaster in this area.. Also Dahl is popular around here too not for tub and shower but for partitions and other valves. and they have been around quite a while..


We do a lot of hi rise so once we figure out what they building has installed we keep spare parts for that building.. and I guess a lot of the same companies got the contracts so a lot of them have same parts installed..


If i was strictly residential.. Id keep Moen, delta faucet parts cup and spring shower catridges.. american standard tub and shower , and id keep 1 symmons shower valve on board.. waltec and emco stuff as well.. depends on how much of that you do...


Im surprised Quebec doesnt have a Nobel Trade or a Emco, Marks, or the like..


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Not all faucets have replaceable seats. Also, some faucet seats are irreplaceable because they are no longer made. But you all know this. You also know there are tools to grind/resurface the seat in old faucets. Seat resurfacing tool bits have a 3/8"-16NC female thread. Sexauer makes what i think is the best tool, but unlike most it takes a 1/4-?NS thread.
> 
> 
> I happen to have some stainless ground/polished 3/8" rod just like the shaft of the sexauer tool so I made my own center stem that is compatible with the alignment pieces. But it's 3/8"-16NC so I can use my sexauer tool with the 3/8" bits.
> ...


I admire that skill, but it becomes a viscious circle. How to gain the knowledge and skill when there are so few around to work on? The more I
work on repairs on old stuff, the more I am thinking that it is just preferable to replace it, for several reasons; parts availability, time, condition of the components, those pesky codes, my skill and experience, and more. I have had simple cartridge replacements (theoretically), that I wished I had just quoted to replace the whole faucet in the first place.

You guys with the skill can have the niche for those who want to keep the old fixtures for posterity, but those owners are few and far between. Who pours lead joints anymore? Sometimes progress is really progress, and not planned obsolescence.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Tango said:


> @Logtec Do you carry Danfoss, Emco and Waltec parts?
> 
> I have made the decision this week to stop trying to find and buy Emco and Waltec parts for those 2 handle tub/shower. These were the only faucet you can replace the seats anyway. I went to get a diverter replacement this week from a big box where I usually get and them they told me it was discontinued. I still can get it at Wolseley but it was my cue to stop. There's only a few houses and one section of apartments turned into condos in the entire city where these faucets are still in use. So they'll pay me to run around trying to see if there's any left or a replacement.
> 
> ...


I carry a wide variety of seats, orings and washers- for a variety of brands(brands like Venom said). 
I don’t change a lot of seats anymore, mostly cartridges now.

A few years back a Indy Supplier closed down, i was one of the lucky ones to get first crack at their stock. 
I bought up a ton of repair parts, fittings, valves, solder, glue, etc..

The other day, a new liquidation store opened in Toronto. They were selling:
Korky fill valves $12 (nor $25)
Korky w/c kits $22 (nor $45)
Toto unvI. flappers $7 (nor $25)
I bought up all their inventory.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

goeswiththeflow said:


> I admire that skill, but it becomes a viscious circle. How to gain the knowledge and skill when there are so few around to work on? The more I
> work on repairs on old stuff, the more I am thinking that it is just preferable to replace it, for several reasons; parts availability, time, condition of the components, those pesky codes, my skill and experience, and more. I have had simple cartridge replacements (theoretically), that I wished I had just quoted to replace the whole faucet in the first place.
> 
> You guys with the skill can have the niche for those who want to keep the old fixtures for posterity, but those owners are few and far between. Who pours lead joints anymore? Sometimes progress is really progress, and not planned obsolescence.



thats my thought, replace rather than repair, and many times the repair cost comes close to the replace cost if I have to run and spend time finding old parts and I express to the customer NO WARRANTY on fixing a 40 year old or older fixture..


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

goeswiththeflow said:


> skoronesa said:
> 
> 
> > Not all faucets have replaceable seats. Also, some faucet seats are irreplaceable because they are no longer made. But you all know this. You also know there are tools to grind/resurface the seat in old faucets. Seat resurfacing tool bits have a 3/8"-16NC female thread. Sexauer makes what i think is the best tool, but unlike most it takes a 1/4-?NS thread.
> ...


Most of the time (for me) a repair is more profitable, when you factor in time spent and materials (w/ mark up). 

I Rarely supply clients with faucets in Toronto, there is a lot of higher end faucets. ppl usually want to try to fix before replace. Which now works out to A service call + time to get The cartridge + mark up.


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

I have replaced cartridges at the insistence of the customer, that I wouldn't guarantee because of the condition of the faucet, and have had to end up replacing the faucet anyway. They paid me twice. That was when I was stupid(er), and would give them the option. Now that I smartened up a little I tell them I won't do it unless they replace the faucet, when it is obvious that it is in poor condition. They can pay me the service fee and find someone else to try to replace the cartridge. I'd rather listen to them beatch about that than have them beatch when I gave them a choice and THEY made the decision to try the cheap way despite my recommendation. Then they're still not happy when it doesn't work out because they wanted to gamble.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Venomthirst said:


> @Tango We carry all emco, sterling, waltec, Jameco, Galtmaster, Belanger, Tub and shower parts.. Moen of course, and when it comes to delta we just go pick up the right part..
> 
> 
> If its before 1970 chances are its a Waltec , or a emco... if its pre 1950 its likely galtmaster in this area.. Also Dahl is popular around here too not for tub and shower but for partitions and other valves. and they have been around quite a while..
> ...


Holy! We don't have the same brands! Here, moen, delta, now a little more belanger, riobel, rarely emco or waltec now. What's gaining in popularity are the no name/ big box and p-fister. (I don't carry any parts for those).

Sure I saw one or 2 American Stan but I tell them it's an automatic replacement, no one in the entire region has parts.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

goeswiththeflow said:


> I have replaced cartridges at the insistence of the customer, that I wouldn't guarantee because of the condition of the faucet, and have had to end up replacing the faucet anyway. They paid me twice. That was when I was stupid(er), and would give them the option. Now that I smartened up a little I tell them I won't do it unless they replace the faucet, when it is obvious that it is in poor condition. They can pay me the service fee and find someone else to try to replace the cartridge. I'd rather listen to them beatch about that than have them beatch when I gave them a choice and THEY made the decision to try the cheap way despite my recommendation. Then they're still not happy when it doesn't work out because they wanted to gamble.


Interesting, I usually give them the options of repair or replace and they pay all my fooling around if its unrepairable. I had accents angry because it started to leak the day after and wanted me to somehow fix it permanently. It's a very good idea to say no guarantee on repairs what so ever, I didn't say it but now I will. The only problem is I start saying replacement only customers will look elsewhere and pay someone else. 

Do you tell them you are going to replace all those roman tub faucets and need to cut the tile and cut out the back side of the tub/showers?


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> .............
> You guys with the skill can have the niche for those who want to keep the old fixtures for posterity, but those owners are few and far between. Who pours lead joints anymore? Sometimes progress is really progress, and not planned obsolescence.







It's not skill, it's having the right tools and parts. Pick up a sexauer or mark's plumbing rebuilding kit. Mark's plumbing of texas is the new version. When I see that a number of customers in my area have a certain faucet I will stock a couple stems. If someone is a really good customer I will stock a stem even if it's unique as long as it's reasonably priced. That single kit can fix darn near every old style faucet you come across.


The hardest part is having the correct oring. There are hundreds of those phuckers in "standard sizes". I have three different boxes of o-rings. 



The second hardest part is handles. Most are crappy zinc. When the faucet won't shut off they crank on the handle and rip the splines off the casting. Drilling through and using a set screw is usually a good option. I keep lever and cross vise handles on the van. All of my faucet repair stuff, be it small parts, stems, pbv spools, etc. would fit in a single 2'x2'x3' box though I have it spread between three average size tool boxes. A double file cabinet would probably do it. Steve lav has tons of file cabinets in his van.



Packings can be made from a spool or similar size, bonnet seals can be fudged with teflon tape. Faucet washers can be had in one small box. Washer screws can all be tapped to 10-24 and then you just need like 4 sizes tops. Sexauers assortment of seats has most of the thread pitches you'll need and the top shape can be close enough. If you have seat taps than you're really golden. But those gosh darn o-rings are a real pain in the dick.







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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Pretty cool set of repair tool and parts. I just have a few seat wrenches , Covers about 90 percent . If I worked more on older homes it would be even more useful. A lot of respect for those to keep old stuff running ...


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> You guys with the skill can have the niche for those who want to keep the old fixtures for posterity, but those owners are few and far between. Who pours lead joints anymore? Sometimes progress is really progress, and not planned obsolescence.







I forgot to address your last question about pouring joints. Occasionally we'll get a house with cast iron through the foundation, only a hub showing at the wall and the tees going into it on the horizontal have sagged from years of no hangers. You gotta remove the back pitched tees and you're left with a hub so you pour a joint around a pvc or abs soil adapter. 



Lead wool is an option too but it takes a lot more hammering.


Planned obsolescence isn't always a bad thing either.










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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

If a seat has nick in it and I don't have the replacement seat, I will remove the damaged seat and gently scrape it across a flat file rotating it slightly after a few strokes. A few 1000's of an inch can be shaved off of the brass seat and it still works. 

One plumber told me that he has actually soldered seats to fill in the nick.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> If a seat has nick in it and I don't have the replacement seat, I will remove the damaged seat and gently scrape it across a flat file rotating it slightly after a few strokes. A few 1000's of an inch can be shaved off of the brass seat and it still works.
> 
> One plumber told me that he has actually soldered seats to fill in the nick.



why remove if you can get a cheap tool to grind or flatten in place? then just run some water to flush it out...
after 40 plus years those seats are set in place pretty good...once you strip or destroy trying to take out there is no going back..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> why remove if you can get a cheap tool to grind or flatten in place? then just run some water to flush it out...
> after 40 plus years those seats are set in place pretty good...once you strip or destroy trying to take out there is no going back..


All the emco seats I replaced they came out pretty easy.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> If a seat has nick in it and I don't have the replacement seat, I will remove the damaged seat and gently scrape it across a flat file rotating it slightly after a few strokes. A few 1000's of an inch can be shaved off of the brass seat and it still works.
> 
> One plumber told me that he has actually soldered seats to fill in the nick.




Try using a worn piece of sanding cloth on a flat surface, will leave a nicer finish. You can then hold the seat on the end of a seat wrench and rotate it on the sanding cloth in the palm of your hand to smooth the sharp edges.







ShtRnsdownhill said:


> why remove if you can get a cheap tool to grind or flatten in place? then just run some water to flush it out...
> after 40 plus years those seats are set in place pretty good...once you strip or destroy trying to take out there is no going back..





If you have the correct tool to remove it than you won't strip the center broach. Depends on your local water conditions but I have very few that I can't remove without destroying them. Helps that most service plumbers who came before me knew to use a little grease or tape on the seat threads.



Sometimes the nick is very deep from a cut in the washer letting water piss by and erode a notch. You're not going to grind that out with a standard tool. In which case you take it out and add some solder to the divot.


Sometimes for some unknown reason my cutter will have a lot of chatter and won't leave a smooth surface. I think it's a matter of the brass being too hard. Sometimes running it backwards can smooth the surface. Other times my only option is to remove the seat and grind it like tommy stated except instead of a file I use a piece of worn sanding cloth on a flat surface. Leaves a very smooth, flat surface. Just remember to break the edges or they will cut the washer.




Obviously all of this assumes you don't have a new seat that will work. I try to use the more common seats when I can, makes re-ordering easier.













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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

You can also take them outside and rub on the concrete sidewalk :biggrin:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> All the emco seats I replaced they came out pretty easy.


how old were the faucets?


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Try using a worn piece of sanding cloth on a flat surface, will leave a nicer finish. You can then hold the seat on the end of a seat wrench and rotate it on the sanding cloth in the palm of your hand to smooth the sharp edges.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 again all good ideas, and every case has its own circumstances...me personally its not worth the aggravation of trying to disassemble a 50-60-70 year old faucet or tub/shower body and all the corroded trim and seized screws to get down to a seat that may or may not come out and hope it all goes back together with no leaks from the faucet and trim...
when I can give a price to replace it and do a tile patch..making the few bucks trying to fix it..if they dont have money then they arent the customer im looking for..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> how old were the faucets?


From the 70's to early 1980


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> ............me personally its not worth the aggravation of trying to disassemble a 50-60-70 year old faucet or tub/shower body and *all the corroded trim and seized screws* to get down to a seat that may or may not come out and hope it all goes back together with no leaks from the faucet and trim...
> *when I can give a price to replace it* and do a tile patch..making the few bucks trying to fix it..if they dont have money then they arent the customer im looking for..







Right, but I am not talking about stuff that is gone past being serviceable. Clearly there are circumstances when it's best to replace. 



Some customers however would rather fix a nice old faucet every 3-5 years instead of replacing the whole thing.


And even if the trim or handles is garbage often you can get all of that new for the mpst common stuff. KISS and Danco make great rebuild kits. And in the end they recommend you to all their friends because you saved them from opening the wall. We don't do drywall/tile/plaster so If I can sell them new stems every couple years than that's a win for us.








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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

97% of everything i run into is emco or waltec
Like someone said, alot of building are the same so most of the fixtures are the same.
I got lots of w-1ks w-2ks w-8 e-4 e13's can never have enough.
And thoughs cheap crappy emco offset shr valve are usually falling apart..they dont make them anymore.
This building i worked in for a while hired this " maitence guy" he tried threading in the wrong catriges in a few different emco valves, mangled the threads, ended up having to cut them all out he got fierd lol


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

canuck92 said:


> 97% of everything i run into is emco or waltec
> Like someone said, alot of building are the same so most of the fixtures are the same.
> I got lots of w-1ks w-2ks w-8 e-4 e13's can never have enough.
> And thoughs cheap crappy emco offset shr valve are usually falling apart..they dont make them anymore.
> This building i worked in for a while hired this " maitence guy" he tried threading in the wrong catriges in a few different emco valves, mangled the threads, ended up having to cut them all out he got fierd lol





Well clearly he didn't use enough white teflon tape! :biggrin:









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## powellmatthew76 (Sep 11, 2019)

Old timer let me have these









Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Logtec said:


> I carry a wide variety of seats, orings and washers- for a variety of brands(brands like Venom said).
> I don’t change a lot of seats anymore, mostly cartridges now.
> 
> A few years back a Indy Supplier closed down, i was one of the lucky ones to get first crack at their stock.
> ...


95% dust collectors lololololol


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

goeswiththeflow said:


> I have replaced cartridges at the insistence of the customer, that I wouldn't guarantee because of the condition of the faucet, and have had to end up replacing the faucet anyway. They paid me twice. That was when I was stupid(er), and would give them the option. Now that I smartened up a little I tell them I won't do it unless they replace the faucet, when it is obvious that it is in poor condition. They can pay me the service fee and find someone else to try to replace the cartridge. I'd rather listen to them beatch about that than have them beatch when I gave them a choice and THEY made the decision to try the cheap way despite my recommendation. Then they're still not happy when it doesn't work out because they wanted to gamble.


We do the same thing,replace it or we walk


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> Interesting, I usually give them the options of repair or replace and they pay all my fooling around if its unrepairable. I had accents angry because it started to leak the day after and wanted me to somehow fix it permanently. It's a very good idea to say no guarantee on repairs what so ever, I didn't say it but now I will. The only problem is I start saying replacement only customers will look elsewhere and pay someone else.
> 
> Do you tell them you are going to replace all those roman tub faucets and need to cut the tile and cut out the back side of the tub/showers?


Yep,most of them are loose and spinning around anyway,if they that dumb to bury a faucet anyway then they can afford to cut it out and replace,or let it leak:devil3:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> It's not skill, it's having the right tools and parts. Pick up a sexauer or mark's plumbing rebuilding kit. Mark's plumbing of texas is the new version. When I see that a number of customers in my area have a certain faucet I will stock a couple stems. If someone is a really good customer I will stock a stem even if it's unique as long as it's reasonably priced. That single kit can fix darn near every old style faucet you come across.
> 
> 
> The hardest part is having the correct oring. There are hundreds of those phuckers in "standard sizes". I have three different boxes of o-rings.
> ...


We used to carry a set like this from creed company,had everything in it,just got to where we never used it at all,finally sold it


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

sparky said:


> We used to carry a set like this from creed company,had everything in it,just got to where we never used it at all,finally sold it




I tell ya, all the rich folks say they like period stuff but they don't. They like what they think is period stuff which is usually just chrome 60's stuff with porcelain knobs. They don't even know what an old nickel finish looks like. Which I guess is fine because I have yet to see a modern "reproduction" that has the correct color of a real period nickel finish.




The few homeowners that have period stuff and want it fixed are all very appreciative when I show up and can fix it. Maybe once a year I will get a customer who has been waiting years for someone who can fix it. They call a plumber for something else and ask if they can fix the guest faucet they never use too and most say no, it's a hundred years old I can only replace it. So they just leave it and hope they win the plumber lotto with me or our one other service guy who bothers with the old stuff. Most of our other plumbers haven't replaced or resurfaced a seat in years.




We had this one guy, I think he was like 70+ when they finally made him retire a couple years back. One of those guys who smoked a pack a day and it didn't touch him. I miss him. He had everything on his van. He would have a pack of like 4 stems from some manufacturer that didn't exist anymore solely because one customer had the faucet they went to and he would replace them like every ten years. That's the kind of service guy I strive to be. He retired and a month later the transmission blew up on his old van. They scrapped pretty much all the old parts, most had no labels and only he knew what they went to but they didn't care to ask.









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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> I tell ya, all the rich folks say they like period stuff but they don't. They like what they think is period stuff which is usually just chrome 60's stuff with porcelain knobs. They don't even know what an old nickel finish looks like. Which I guess is fine because I have yet to see a modern "reproduction" that has the correct color of a real period nickel finish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sad to lose a good old plumber like that,he forgot more than I will ever know,keep up the good work this old timer started,not many want to do it anymore,I will repair a faucet if possible ,but my area is cheap,everybody wants it cheap and fast as possible that why I recommend replacement as much as possible,people think they get more for their money when they see a new faucet installed


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> I tell ya, all the rich folks say they like period stuff but they don't. They like what they think is period stuff which is usually just chrome 60's stuff with porcelain knobs. They don't even know what an old nickel finish looks like. Which I guess is fine because I have yet to see a modern "reproduction" that has the correct color of a real period nickel finish.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also had the old timer kept driving the van the tranny would still be going strong,some people just have the touch:biggrin:


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