# Plumbing niche ideas



## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

So I have been thinking about maybe starting to learn about a niche to get in to for when I start a business some day. I was thinking I might as well try and learn more about it before I need it.

I know of a few that I would call a specialised or niche market. Those being things like slab leak detection, trench less sewer replacement or backflow testing and repair.

I wonder if you guys have ideas that does not require very expensive investments like trench less sewer replacement. I don't believe there is any record keeping if backflow devices or anything like that making it a good market to get in to testing those. Slab leak detection would be interesting but we barely have any slab on grade houses here so that is not really a market at all around here.

I live in a small town of 1500 people and work 40 minutes away in a college town of maybe 55000 people. 

Any ideas?

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

How much doe the equipment cost for trench less? What kind of machines and vehicles do you need?

Based on the number of 55 000 people how old are the underground system, then how many houses realy need to be replaced based on the age? Then how many will actually go for it compared to digging with a backhoe. Some people will just live with broken pipes and not repair it. You might realize it'll be very few trench less.


As for backflow in my area it's only on commercial and no one inspects them. No special licence either. Any plumber can install them. They are installed in new buildings or a reno then its forgotten.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> How much doe the equipment cost for trench less? What kind of machines and vehicles do you need?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same situation here on the backflow. Any plumber can install them but it takes a special license to test and repair them. It is surprised to be tested either yearly or bi yearly but it gets put in and forgot about.

I forget what trench less equipment cost but I remember looking and it's not cheap but it's also hard to do if you are a new one man shop. I remember a neighbour telling me he had that done to his sewer but if I remember correctly it was a company close to 2 hours away in a bigger city that did it. Around here the sewer is at least 7' down and normally older cast iron.

Here we are apparently old fashioned and seems no one is even trying to be up to date on some new things.
Last Friday I had a sewer smell call in a business and it was all over and no signs of leaks I was told. I started telling the boss about smoke testing for cases like that and he had never heard about it and could not at all understand how it would not all just go out of the vent or sewer so he thought I was silly. Yesterday I had a clogged kitchen drain and I asked if the 3/8" cable machine was at the shop and the boss said I should just use the 1/2" cable. I told him I had never had any luck getting a 1/2" through a 11/2" short turn 90 which is normal to have right inside the wall before going 2" on the drain. He was getting irritated with me stating that that is all he had ever used and that we never had the 3/8" before 3 years ago. I told him the cable manufactures did not recommend that size for that drain. I only found the general guide that states 1/2" was for 3"-4" I have no problem using it on 2". Oh by old-school I mean my boss makes estimates on a typewriter.

I was thinking that if a guy got in to some more modern stuff that other plumbers are not set up for then maybe it would be good for business.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Sound like a hillbilly boss 1/2" cable wow! :vs_OMG::vs_OMG:

Seriously you hang out on a forum with the latest trends and technologies. You've gained too much knowledge, they don't like it when you are smarter than them. It's obvious for you but he's he's old school and one day some new guy will come in and steal his show.

Just like me everyone I talk to around here have no idea of new tools or techniques available. I shut up because they'll get the bright idea to jump in. I like being one step ahead which brings in revenue.

You should get cleaner's magazine and start checking the articles online, that's all they talk about trench less. You'll know if it makes sense. But all will say you have to start small or you might bust.

For me my niche is service. One van full of tools and no need to hire help. I keep the camera in the basement and locator for special occasions, that's it!


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> Sound like a hillbilly boss 1/2" cable wow! :vs_OMG::vs_OMG:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For trench less it's a no since I'll be starting small like you said and I think the investment plus kind of need 2 guys makes it a no for me. Besides I don't mind the normal drain call but I'm no sure I want to specialise in drains (at least not for now).

I'm not sure I would describe service as a niche. I am planing on doing mostly service and remodel with a new residential house or two here and there but not much new construction. I will first off be trying to focus on my local area and not further down where I currently work but I'm sure I will also end up doing work down there since there is more work and that is where I will be going all the time anyway to the supply houses.

I was just hoping to have at least a little more to offer than just the standard all Around plumbing. If nothing else at least for my own interest in learning new things and personal / professional development

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

If you can afford the 10k$ get a camera and pipe finder assuming most guys around you don't have one. We get a lot of people calling for me to come out and camera or track lines. We even get other plumbing companies calling or referring us.





A 3/8" cable is not a "new idea". Your boss is just a stubborn idiot who doesn't want to do anything he hasn't done before. 



Some guys really think that in 40 years they have seen it ALL. That no one, especially a YOUNG plumber could show them something new. While they may have seen a lot it does not mean they have seen it all. And it doesn't mean they have been doing it the correct way all these years either.


Like when people look at an old house and say "They don't build them like this house anymore! Nobody does quality like these old houses!". They think that ALL old houses were built like the 100+yr old houses we still have around. It's called "Survivorship Bias". Only the well built ones lasted so that's all you still see. Truth is guys back in the day were just as crap as guys now and most houses were built like crap but only the good ones survived.






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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> If you can afford the 10k$ get a camera and pipe finder assuming most guys around you don't have one. We get a lot of people calling for me to come out and camera or track lines. We even get other plumbing companies calling or referring us.
> 
> .


For me the camera and locator and sonde were a total waste of money. BUT if it's any consolation if I need them I'll have them. I can also put them in the living room as ornaments or display. :whistling2::whistling2:

I have a brand new 150$ mainline backwater valve that's gathering dust for over a year in the garage thinking I was going to install one. Everyone thinks it'll cost 40$ to install!

Over here it seems everyone has a camera even the hacks!!!


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> If you can afford the 10k$ get a camera and pipe finder assuming most guys around you don't have one. We get a lot of people calling for me to come out and camera or track lines. We even get other plumbing companies calling or referring us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never claimed that 3/8" cable was a new idea. You are right he is stubborn. Actually we have had a ****ty mytana camera for 3 years now and we have probably used it maybe 10 times in that time where of I probably did the 6 (we are a shop of 4-8 guys) I don't see there being money in that around here.

I actually also told my boss about skids for the camera head to get it up above some of the water and not get blinded by pushing poop on the bottom of the pipe. He again had no clue they existed and wanted nothing to do with it.

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The Dane said:


> I never claimed that 3/8" cable was a new idea.



I know you didn't claim that, I was saying it seemed like your boss thought it was a new fangled thing that wasn't reliable because it wasn't the way he learned to do things.








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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

forget about the technical part of the business....learn about BUSINESS to keep the doors open. It's nothing fun or glamorous but the non plumbing stuff is the most important part


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> I know you didn't claim that, I was saying it seemed like your boss thought it was a new fangled thing that wasn't reliable because it wasn't the way he learned to do things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok. No my boss didn't think that 3/8" was new he did how ever think that because that was not how he had learned to do things it was automatically me being wrong. Oh yeah he also claimed that a 3/8" would just "snarl" up in a 11/2" or 2" drain.

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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

How are you on repairing Water Heaters Gas and Electric ?
you can sign up with the Mfg's as a service agent that way you get 
paid to go to peoples homes and give them your CARD,
and put your sticker on their Water Heaters, :biggrin:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

The Dane said:


> So I have been thinking about maybe starting to learn about a niche to get in to for when I start a business some day. I was thinking I might as well try and learn more about it before I need it.
> 
> I know of a few that I would call a specialised or niche market. Those being things like slab leak detection, trench less sewer replacement or backflow testing and repair.
> 
> ...



dont take this the wrong way, but you live in a low populated area, even 55000 is small, the investment in niche tools probably wont pay off....
you should study and build up your skills on how to run a successful plumbing business and stick with that, once you have a good customer base you wont have to niche..
if you dont have more of a dense population there wont be room for more than 1 or 2 guys doing the same thing, the country I live in has almost 3 million people and I can drive from the south side where im located to the north side in 30 to 40 minutes and west side where im located to the east side in about the same time, and further east is another county of 2 million plus people...
you need to sit back and look what your area needs rather than look at what you want todo...
whats the call for backflow testing, pipe bursting and so on, how many jobs do other companies do in those areas?
it all comes down to demand and supply...you may want to supply some service noone needs and to lay out big $$ on tools makes no sense if they will rarely be used...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> dont take this the wrong way, but you live in a low populated area, even 55000 is small, the investment in niche tools probably wont pay off....
> you should study and build up your skills on how to run a successful plumbing business and stick with that, once you have a good customer base you wont have to niche..
> if you dont have more of a dense population there wont be room for more than 1 or 2 guys doing the same thing, the country I live in has almost 3 million people and I can drive from the south side where im located to the north side in 30 to 40 minutes and west side where im located to the east side in about the same time, and further east is another county of 2 million plus people...
> you need to sit back and look what your area needs rather than look at what you want todo...
> ...


That's what I really wanted to say yesterday not to sound too negative but I agree the population is too small.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

gear junkie said:


> forget about the technical part of the business....learn about BUSINESS to keep the doors open. It's nothing fun or glamorous but the non plumbing stuff is the most important part


I am trying to understand a little business. Mr Parr helped me out with understanding some numbers. I will soon be going to my old boss and seeing what he can help teach me about business. He already said he would help me a bit when I got closer to that time.
I am sure business will be something I slowly learn over the next few years. For now I think there is only so much I can learn without actually being in business and dealing with it directly. I do believe I know the basics enough to make sure I don't go broke while learning more about doing business.

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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

MASTRPLUMB said:


> How are you on repairing Water Heaters Gas and Electric ?
> 
> you can sign up with the Mfg's as a service agent that way you get
> 
> ...


It might be an idea. I am able to trouble shoot most water heaters though I have not done much repairing of gas heaters. I am confident that I can find and repair the problem. 

Only thing about that is that as far as I see it. You go into a customer that starts off with a negative mood because of having to deal with warranty and now what if they as most likely did not install their product up to code and I tell them as a plumber I am obligated to bring it up to code if I touch it and that part is not free under warranty.

Second is that yes you can get a foot in the door to a new customer but that is the kind of cheap customer that did not want to pay for a plumber to install the heater in the first place (otherwise they would have called him back)

The mfg likely does not pay well for warranty calls so does one really want to out all that energy and time in to the small potential you might gain a cheap customer?

For the record I don't mind people being carefully with their money but I do mind the cheap type.

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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

The Dane said:


> I am trying to understand a little business. Mr Parr helped me out with understanding some numbers. I will soon be going to my old boss and seeing what he can help teach me about business. He already said he would help me a bit when I got closer to that time.
> I am sure business will be something I slowly learn over the next few years. For now I think there is only so much I can learn without actually being in business and dealing with it directly. I do believe I know the basics enough to make sure I don't go broke while learning more about doing business.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk




Its real simple......... Time is money, and the more time consuming ---mind numbing ---things you delegate out to others you will be more able to focus on making more money doing plumbing.......

1. you get yourself a quickbooks program to post all your receivables and payments.... 

2. you hand this information over to an accountant every 4 months to do your year end taxes and also possibly have them do your payroll or get a payroll service to do it 

3. You spend some money on advertiseing to get your name out there in the nitch you want to be in for your area--- maybe have some one do your advertiseing on the internet for you..... 

4 You make up STICKERS with your name and number on them.....

5 you answer the god dam phone when it rings and dont let people wait the whole day to hear back from you...

6 find your nitch and build up on it with someone who can advertise it for you,....


very simple and very easy....you should be cooking in 15 to 25 years...


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> dont take this the wrong way, but you live in a low populated area, even 55000 is small, the investment in niche tools probably wont pay off....
> you should study and build up your skills on how to run a successful plumbing business and stick with that, once you have a good customer base you wont have to niche..
> if you dont have more of a dense population there wont be room for more than 1 or 2 guys doing the same thing, the country I live in has almost 3 million people and I can drive from the south side where im located to the north side in 30 to 40 minutes and west side where im located to the east side in about the same time, and further east is another county of 2 million plus people...
> you need to sit back and look what your area needs rather than look at what you want todo...
> ...


I don't take things the wrong way too often (I have thicker skin than that)

I fully understand that I don't live in a densely populated area. I was in no way trying to spend a lot of money on special tools that might not be used much.

I am fully intending on focusing on building up a customer base and some business skills first.

I completely understand your supply and demand comment and had no intention of randomly spending money on tools I do not know if there is a market for around here.

I clearly said that pipe busting (trench less) is not something I would be looking at. For the exact reason that the market as I see it does not have a need for it and the investment would not make sense. 

The backflow testing is something that I know no one around here does or even know of someone who does it. Now because there is no a record keeping of those devices in this area I also know it gets installed and forgotten so I doubt there is a real market for it unless I could convince the inspectors that they should start recording where those devises are installed, at least in commercial buildings. Then maybe they could help spread the word that I was able to do that.

I did not mean to make it sound like I have the idea that I absolutely need to have a niche. I know it's not the most important thing but I figured I would ask if anyone here knew about other things that might be worth looking in to. If it was obvious what the market needed I'm sure someone else would already have jumped on it. I was looking out of pure curiosity if there was something that this market could possibly need that people just wasn't aware of.

I have heard a couple times now that backflow testing might be a good market because no one really wants to take the clases for it and get in to it. I'm not sure how that works if no one keeps track of the devises and enforces the testing on them. 

Here is a good example on how backflow devices are treated here. A couple of years ago a place that makes weed killer chemicals for farmers wanted this devise they had bought from overseas to be installed on the waterline that they use to fill up the tank where they mix all the deadly chemicals. It was a devise that could count gallons and then shut off automatically when it reached a certain gallon amount, this way they could set it and walk away instead of babysitting it until the correct amount was reached. The waterline they used was directly connected to the bottom of the chemical tank so I told them that they needed a backflow preventer and that I could install it but with it being chemicals I would make sure they got it tested at the required interval. If not they could maybe reroute their water line up above with an airgap. They asked a few questions and somehow decided to completely forget about it all and just keep doing things the way they used to do it. My boss got pissed with me saying I talked to much and I should just have installed it and be out of there. He did not one bit care that it could cost lives if they never had it tested and it failed. 

On here I see things like smoke testing and think to myself that would be an inexpensive interesting thing to be able to do and it would make a guy stand out a little.

So all in all I was just curious to see what other guys might know about that I didn't. Just a little something to make a guy stand out from the rest of the regular plumbers instead of blending in with everyone else. Not really a thing to focus on as a main source of income.

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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

The Dane said:


> It might be an idea. I am able to trouble shoot most water heaters though I have not done much repairing of gas heaters. I am confident that I can find and repair the problem.
> 
> Only thing about that is that as far as I see it. You go into a customer that starts off with a negative mood because of having to deal with warranty and now what if they as most likely did not install their product up to code and I tell them as a plumber I am obligated to bring it up to code if I touch it and that part is not free under warranty.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are doing everything you can to come up with reasons why it won't work. What you should be doing is coming up with reasons why you can make it work. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. Do you want to give up before you even start, or rise above and conquer?

You are getting a lot of excellent advice in this thread, especially the parts about making quality service your niche, and focusing on the business aspect. I hope you do find a niche. That would be cool, but again, if it were so easy everyone would have already done it.

It sucks to have a butt head boss. We've all been there. Put your head down and bowl right along, laughing him off if you must. Look at it as him actually doing you a favor. He is highlighting things to make you realize that you never want to make those same mistakes yourself. As the commercial said; "You can learn a lot from a dummy." You will be moving on soon enough.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> So all in all I was just curious to see what other guys might know about that I didn't. Just a little something to make a guy stand out from the rest of the regular plumbers instead of blending in with everyone else. Not really a thing to focus on as a main source of income.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


Do what Mark says answer the god damn phone always! I go to the throne the phone is there, I go to down the driveway to get the mail the phone is in my pocket. I have notepads and pens in every pair of shorts, pants and coats, bathroom, garage, truck etc...

And a several more things...It takes a lot of dedication and DISCIPLINE.

A guy at noon called asking when I would be available for a powder room reno finish. I was there within an hour and installed all those complicated fancy fixtures by dinner time.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

goeswiththeflow said:


> It sounds like you are doing everything you can to come up with reasons why it won't work. What you should be doing is coming up with reasons why you can make it work. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. Do you want to give up before you even start, or rise above and conquer?
> 
> You are getting a lot of excellent advice in this thread, especially the parts about making quality service your niche, and focusing on the business aspect. I hope you do find a niche. That would be cool, but again, if it were so easy everyone would have already done it.
> 
> It sucks to have a butt head boss. We've all been there. Put your head down and bowl right along, laughing him off if you must.* Look at it as him actually doing you a favor. He is highlighting things to make you realize that you never want to make those same mistakes yourself. As the commercial said; "You can learn a lot from a dummy."* You will be moving on soon enough.




I have this wonderful book and one sentence that stands out is. "You can learn a lot by just listening". Take note of all his nonsense things and make it better in your business plan, that's how you stand out.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

The Dane said:


> The backflow testing is something that I know no one around here does or even know of someone who does it. Now because there is no a record keeping of those devices in this area I also know it gets installed and forgotten so I doubt there is a real market for it unless I could convince the inspectors that they should start recording where those devises are installed, at least in commercial buildings. Then maybe they could help spread the word that I was able to do that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk



my area makes everyone with a backflow have it tested every year, but that also caused alot of people to tell the building depts they dont have it anymore so they dont have to keep getting it tested, but commercial places cant do that..I have talked to a few guys that do it and its not really worth it, between equipment and original schooling cost you have to go back each year to get more training and its always on a work day..
so untill it is mandated to be tested, but you have to look at the cost to the municipality to keep track and notify people for testing and they dont collect any fee, or not yet, ...so the odds of anyone pushing for mandatory inspections in smaller towns aint gona happen...
and another thing...anything you hit gold with in a short time you will have 10 guys doing the same thing, so many niche markets are only that way for a short time and then your back to square one..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

You want a niche, do sprinklers. Some make a killing since it's yearly mandatory inspections and not too many guy want to to that type of stuff.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> It sounds like you are doing everything you can to come up with reasons why it won't work. What you should be doing is coming up with reasons why you can make it work. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it. Do you want to give up before you even start, or rise above and conquer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know i write long posts and sometimes it makes my message come out the wrong way. I was trying to hear about more of these interesting niches because I'm curious and think it's fun to learn about. I was only trying to say that things like trench less would not work around here to let you guys know that I am not just randomly thinking some speciality will make me rich or anything like that. With backflow testing I was trying to let you guys know that it might be a market with looking in to. I was also trying to explain that since there is not a record of the devices installed and no one has an interest in them. It might actually be an untapped market because no one knows that there really is a need for it. So if a guy could maybe get the inspectors to focus a little more on it. Maybe even if not starting a list of installed devices maybe at least put some extra focus on it when out inspecting and then could mention that I'm really the only one they know of in the area that can do it. I am meaning to talk to the 2 inspectors I normally deal with to see what their opinion on it us and if they think there is any kind of plumbing need in the market that is not currently being provided. I figured if anyone would know what kind of work there might be a need for in the area it will be the inspectors.

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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> You want a niche, do sprinklers. Some make a killing since it's yearly mandatory inspections and not too many guy want to to that type of stuff.


First off there are already lawn sprinkler guys here that do only sprinklers and but plumbing. Code might be that the backflow preventer has to be tested yearly but like I have stated the devices are not being registered so no code enforcement on that. With no enforcement it is hard to get people to spend money on that.

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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> Do what Mark says answer the god damn phone always! I go to the throne the phone is there, I go to down the driveway to get the mail the phone is in my pocket. I have notepads and pens in every pair of shorts, pants and coats, bathroom, garage, truck etc...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know better than to not answer the phone. If I got busy enough and no longer wanted to deal with the calls after hours then I would get an answering service that would take a bite and I could call back next morning or if an emergency they would call me and give me the info on the customer and I would call right away.

I believe I have dedication and discipline taken care of too.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> First off there are already lawn sprinkler guys here that do only sprinklers and but plumbing. Code might be that the backflow preventer has to be tested yearly but like I have stated the devices are not being registered so no code enforcement on that. With no enforcement it is hard to get people to spend money on that.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


I meant fire sprinklers but lawn sprinkler are VERY VERY lucrative too. I don't have all the data but I think lawn sprinklers guys make more money than us.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

The Dane said:


> I know i write long posts and sometimes it makes my message come out the wrong way. I was trying to hear about more of these interesting niches because I'm curious and think it's fun to learn about. I was only trying to say that things like trench less would not work around here to let you guys know that I am not just randomly thinking some speciality will make me rich or anything like that. With backflow testing I was trying to let you guys know that it might be a market with looking in to. I was also trying to explain that since there is not a record of the devices installed and no one has an interest in them. It might actually be an untapped market because no one knows that there really is a need for it. So if a guy could maybe get the inspectors to focus a little more on it. Maybe even if not starting a list of installed devices maybe at least put some extra focus on it when out inspecting and then could mention that I'm really the only one they know of in the area that can do it. I am meaning to talk to the 2 inspectors I normally deal with to see what their opinion on it us and if they think there is any kind of plumbing need in the market that is not currently being provided. I figured if anyone would know what kind of work there might be a need for in the area it will be the inspectors.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk






For the love of Jesus Christ....OKAY.... you sound like a blind squirrel looking for nuts....... 

my nitch is* Water heaters* and *water softeners*.....has been this way since about 1995... 

This nitch is Very easy to me anyway....and its a hell of a lot better than getting into pipe bursting or fooling around in mud all day long.........

I am doing 2 heaters today so far....


My BEST *nitch* and the most important one that has made all the other *nitches *work out 1000% better is plastering advertisement *STICKERS *into every home I walk into and on everything I get nearby....no matter what I am doing there....

If you would have done this since you started years ago, you would probably have your name in more than half the homes in your town and general area... and you would have already built up a very huge number of clients by now.....

So How many homes you going into today?? So what is stopping you from starting to do this ??? The numbers begin to add up quickly and you realize that it is the best Nitch of them all.... 

good luck and dont forget to answer the phone.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tango said:


> I meant fire sprinklers but lawn sprinkler are VERY VERY lucrative too. I don't have all the data but I think lawn sprinklers guys make more money than us.




This area is very seasonal..... keep that in mind


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> This area is very seasonal..... keep that in mind


Yes very seasonal but if I remember correctly they did a job for the mother in law and she was charged over 6000$ for 1 day of work. I can't say how much materials or equipment was installed but 6000$ that's something to look into.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

Tango said:


> Master Mark said:
> 
> 
> > This area is very seasonal..... keep that in mind
> ...


 You can do the same in plumbing excavation. I can tell you I've done plenty of digs for $6,000+ and finished in one day. And we're very far from the most expensive. 

One of the plumbers I used to work with told me he did a job last week, as a subcontractor, for another company where they charged $9,000. He finished in 1 day. The funny thing is his company had quoted that same customer $3,000 just 2 weeks prior and the homeowner ended up choosing a company that charged 3 times as much only to have him do the work anyway.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> You can do the same in plumbing excavation. I can tell you I've done plenty of digs for $6,000+ and finished in one day. And we're very far from the most expensive.
> 
> One of the plumbers I used to work with told me he did a job last week, as a subcontractor, for another company where they charged $9,000. He finished in 1 day. The funny thing is his company had quoted that same customer $3,000 just 2 weeks prior and the homeowner ended up choosing a company that charged 3 times as much only to have him do the work anyway.


I've never done that so tell me do you need a helper? What about the city connection either sewer or water? What about trying to connect to the pipe that's going under the footing and the pipe crumbles, then you have to break concrete inside the house?

Do you have any pictures of those type of jobs?


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

Tango said:


> V.A Hydro-ooter said:
> 
> 
> > You can do the same in plumbing excavation. I can tell you I've done plenty of digs for $6,000+ and finished in one day. And we're very far from the most expensive.
> ...


 There are many variables in underground work. I've done the work on my own, with my brother or hired a company to dig for me. I don't own my own backhoe (yet) so it usually makes more sense for me to subcontract that part out and I take care of the hook up and testing. Some of the spot repairs we just hand dig. 

I don't do jobs where we have to hook up sewer to the city connection since the tap is usually in the road. I give those to a friend of mine. I do water service replacement from the meter to the house though. 

As far as pipe crumbling, I make sure the homeowner is aware that is a possibility. I explain to them that if it corroded in one spot the rest of the line is the same age and may be in similar condition and the scope of work may change. I give them a price for replacing the section that's bad, as confirmed with my video inspection, plus what each additional foot would cost if needed.

I will see if I have any more pictures on my phone. Usually my hands are too dirty to take my phone out while I'm in a trench so I don't take many.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> For the love of Jesus Christ....OKAY.... you sound like a blind squirrel looking for nuts.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep I'm a blind squirrel. Don't put too much in to it. I was just curious and it was nothing more than an equivalent to asking if you knew of a good movie that might be worth watching.

You must not have paid attention to what I have written. 
You wrote "If you would have done this since you started years ago, you would probably have your name in more than half the homes in your town and general area... and you would have already built up a very huge number of clients by now....."

I clearly stated that I was curious for SOME DAY WHEN A START MY OWN COMPANY. It should be within the next half a year I'm thinking. 

Now for sticker. I was actually planing on doing that when that time comes. 

For answering the phone. I would never let the phone go unanswered. I would at the least ask for a name and number and tell them I would call back as soon as I was done with the current job.

I probably will be better at business than my current boss. As he on the phone let's people pay what they think is fair if they complain about price and when I first started working for him he almost lost $45.000 because he had not been careful and gotten payments along the way after ground work, rough in and finish.

Can a guy not be curious and want to learn about other things he might not yet know about without others putting too much meaning in to it? 

Oh well it seems this time I was not able to communicate well enough what I was asking for. 

I got a few good business advises that I already knew about and thought to be basic obvious things.
I'm sorry for wasting your time but I thought I could get an interesting conversation going. 

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Don't worry about Mark, he may sound harsh but that's the kind of guy I liked to hang with on jobs. They have a lot of knowledge and their advice is priceless. You'll get used to it and even enjoy it.

These types of guys would turn around a foreman or boss with their tail between their legs. :biggrin:

Dane, I thought you likes salty licorice? ( It's a joke) :biggrin:


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> Don't worry about Mark, he may sound harsh but that's the kind of guy I liked to hang with on jobs. They have a lot of knowledge and their advice is priceless. You'll get used to it and even enjoy it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I sure do love my salty licorice.
I didn't mind master marks comment I was just surprised that my thread went a completely different direction than I intended it to.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> I sure do love my salty licorice.
> I didn't mind master marks comment I was just surprised that my thread went a completely different direction than I intended it to.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


That's how all threads go, trying to walk in a straight line with a blindfold. :wink:

You won't always get an exact answer. You have to take it all in and take a little bit of everything of the recipe to make a dish.

You also have to consider they might not tell you their secret ingredient of success.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I would think a small town plumber niche should be visibility. You want everything. Tools that come to mind are camera/locator/transmitter, maybe a gas manometer?

Education to prepare you for unusual situations...... Lift stations, trenchless, tankless, backflow, med gas................

Advertise whole house filtration, tankless, Water cops............


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

The Dane said:


> I sure do love my salty licorice.
> I didn't mind master marks comment I was just surprised that my thread went a completely different direction than I intended it to.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk



why focus on a niche now?? start your own business and do good work in all the plumbing areas, in time that " niche " might find you all on its own, but now is not the time, you have lots to focus on to starting and maintaining a successful business on its own...and not to be side tracked on what may or may not happen..
yes its a good idea to brain storm but it sounds like you have the blinders on and are looking into just a small portion of the market out there..
do you have any local business groups by you? if so join and see what other businesses are out there and you can ask other businesses what they have done in the past and what they are doing now..
I can tell you almost everything plumbing is starting to have computer and electronics connected to them, so maybe getting training on that from the manufacture and getting to be a certified repair tech would help get you recommended for all those tankless and boilers with more wiring than piping...


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> why focus on a niche now?? start your own business and do good work in all the plumbing areas, in time that " niche " might find you all on its own, but now is not the time, you have lots to focus on to starting and maintaining a successful business on its own...and not to be side tracked on what may or may not happen..
> yes its a good idea to brain storm but it sounds like you have the blinders on and are looking into just a small portion of the market out there..
> do you have any local business groups by you? if so join and see what other businesses are out there and you can ask other businesses what they have done in the past and what they are doing now..
> I can tell you almost everything plumbing is starting to have computer and electronics connected to them, so maybe getting training on that from the manufacture and getting to be a certified repair tech would help get you recommended for all those tankless and boilers with more wiring than piping...


Again I am actually not at all focusing on a niche to begin with. I was just curious to learn about some of them out there that I don't know about so that with time I might better have an idea of what could and could not be worth looking in to.

For business groups I believe there was 2 that might be worth looking in to but it is a while ago that I looked. I was planing on looking in to business groups more soon but have not gotten around to it yet.

For becoming a certified repair tech for a tankless heater company. I actually a while back looked in to taking a class from Navien as I have installed a couple of them and for what I know i think it's one of the better ones. I also don't know if there is actually anyone around here who knows how to trouble shoot them except for following phone support directions. The problem with that is that it is a maybe 3 day class and cost a bit of money so I have not been interested in that while working for someone else but they do give you a repair kit with parts that is worth about the same as the class so I might look into that some day. 

For having blinders on and looking into only a small portion of the market. Again no not at all. I'm going to focus on getting my name out there by doing normal and good work and building a customer base by networking. 

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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dont worry about anything I said, I had not had my second cup of coffee yet this morning...

you will figure it out and find your own way.... asking questions of people is the first sign that you got some brains and are not stubborn or too egotistical to ask for advice ..... that makes you a cut above many I have had to observe who basically ran their businesses into the ground 

lots of people in all walks of life would rather struggle and literally work their asses off before just observing what others that are successful do and ask questions....... Afraid of looking the fool by asking, they would rather hack their way through a dense jungle than ask someone for directions to the best path through .........:vs_laugh:

we used to do all forms of plumbing , but over the years we realized it was basically going to kill us or just grind us down into the dirt.. Now we only do in-home types of work basically because its much easier than keeping a crew of people busy and finding work for everyone to do....

What I do right now is not very challenging, but its damn easy and something that I have found out through my life in plumbing is the green is much more easily spendable when it is not as hard to come by...........if you get what I mean.....:wink: .


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

The best niche market I have seen for plumbing IMHO is drain cleaning, jetting and camera work plus the locating utilities . I have 3 camera systems but when we run into doing larger pipe like 12" or bigger I have a guy that has the bigger jetters and the cameras mounted on the remote control stuff that I use. I pay him very well because his equipment is very costly but he has never failed to get things located for me or cleaned when I needed him. I have also used him to locate customers electrical or data lines in large parking lots before we dig, he does pretty well for him self with two vans on the road.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> dont worry about anything I said, I had not had my second cup of coffee yet this morning...
> 
> you will figure it out and find your own way.... asking questions of people is the first sign that you got some brains and are not stubborn or too egotistical to ask for advice ..... that makes you a cut above many I have had to observe who basically ran their businesses into the ground
> 
> ...


It's not that I necessarily want to do all the hard work and hard challenges. I do however love to challenge myself and to learn new things. I guess currently I am looking to learn about new things because I have not for a long time been given any new challenges at work even though I have several times asked the boss if he could make sure I got to go with on some of those jobs I normally don't see so I can learn more. He never does give me a chance to go learn on the few jobs we get like that

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Service work is a niche here because other companies don't want to do it. They don't care while I excel at it.

I got hired tonight and got paid evening rate because of my shoes.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> Service work is a niche here because other companies don't want to do it. They don't care while I excel at it.
> 
> I got hired tonight and got paid evening rate because of my shoes.



theres a niche for you..night time plumbing, so you dont have to take the day off from work to get plumbing done..and you can charge a higher rate for that..I bet if you advertised that you would get a good amount of calls on it..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> theres a niche for you..night time plumbing, so you dont have to take the day off from work to get plumbing done..and you can charge a higher rate for that..I bet if you advertised that you would get a good amount of calls on it..


I do get some evening calls because people see my listing as open while others are closed. It doesn't happen a lot though. But yeah I should try to find a way to advertise it in bold letters. I can start off with a post or on my wepage headline.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I do get some evening calls because people see my listing as open while others are closed. It doesn't happen a lot though. But yeah I should try to find a way to advertise it in bold letters. I can start off with a post or on my wepage headline.



in the past I did alot of late late night early morning work at restaurants that needed big work done but couldnt close down during business hours, so midnight start and 10am finish while the place was closed for business, the added money for those hours was the best and once word got around I would work those hours other restaurant owners that talked to the guy I was doing the work for called for after hours work...
that was many years ago, now I dont want to work crazy hours as it screws up your regular week with sleep..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> in the past I did alot of late late night early morning work at restaurants that needed big work done but couldnt close down during business hours, so midnight start and 10am finish while the place was closed for business, the added money for those hours was the best and once word got around I would work those hours other restaurant owners that talked to the guy I was doing the work for called for after hours work...
> that was many years ago, now I dont want to work crazy hours as it screws up your regular week with sleep..


On commercial it makes a lot of sense, I did some back then. I wonder if I'd get more calls if I advertise it more for service calls. My opening hours are already 7:30 in the morning to 9PM but I never start before 9 or 9:30 depending which part of the city. Most people wait till the next day instead of having me in the evening when they call.


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