# Aquatherm



## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

I attended my required continuing education for my plumbing licence here in Mass and we where told how the state is going to allow Aquatherm fused water piping in commerical buildings here. This is the state that we still have to use cast iron and copper for waste and vents in commerical buildings.


All I can say who`s pockets are being filled by Aquatherm. Deval Patrick maybe ?


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

The building I'm plumbing now is all Aquatherm for both the domestic water and glycol heat. Everything from 1/2" to 4" pipe. It has advantages and disadvantages. 2" and up it's worth the labor costs because of the price of copper, but anything under 2" I would run copper or Wirsbo. Aquatherm requires 2 people to install it in the field, so the labor costs of 2 plumbers have to be able to be offset by the material savings. It is considerably less $$$ than copper (4" is 40% cheaper) and it carries a 50 year warranty. There is a lengthy learning curve though.


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## junker_81 (Feb 2, 2012)

Tim`s Plumbing -

Little confused here. On the one hand you seem to complain that things in your state are behind "We still have to use ...." and then you complain that something new is hitting your state. Which is it?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Aquatherm to me seems like a great idea. Would keep all the hacks and handymen away from Plumbing. Although it is probably no better than PEX, would be great if the Plumbing Industry could somehow push for it to replace PEX, if for no other reason than job security.


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

junker_81 said:


> Tim`s Plumbing -
> 
> Little confused here. On the one hand you seem to complain that things in your state are behind "We still have to use ...." and then you complain that something new is hitting your state. Which is it?


 I`m not complaining about having to use cast and copper I like the fact that we do. I only think it is strange that they have allowed one companies product to be used but not any other type of plastic.


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

Not all plastics are created equal.
Aquatherm > CPVC for example.
It does seem a little strange though that they specify the material.


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

Here's a couple pics i took of some Aquatherm I installed this past week.

I will say that no one needs to fear Aquatherm being installed by hacks or handymen. The equipment to fuse it is very expensive, and it takes far more attention to install it straight compared to copper.


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## Craig (Nov 1, 2010)

Very nice install Nikolai


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

Here's a couple more.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Nikolai said:


> Here's a couple pics i took of some Aquatherm I installed this past week.
> 
> I will say that no one needs to fear Aquatherm being installed by hacks or handymen. The equipment to fuse it is very expensive, and it takes far more attention to install it straight compared to copper.


That still doesent stop a hack from buying a coupling and gluing it on. Hacks will always find a way in.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

justin said:


> That still doesent stop a hack from buying a coupling and gluing it on. Hacks will always find a way in.


I'd bet yella CPVC glue would work, it works on everything.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

What is purpose of aqua therm? I know it's for water , but why? What's wrong with copper? Is copper bad and aqua therm good? We almost started to do some motels with it, but when we got pricing and labor hours compared to propress, the propress blew it away. It's like installing gas but putting water in it and having shiitloads of branches. Lots of labor. 

Not being a prick, but I just don't understand it. What's so good about it ? Had a salesman want to certify us to run it and teach us how. We told him we use gas irons and asked him how much training do we really need? 

Good clean work though !! Not as good as I would do it but good.


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

justin said:


> What is purpose of aqua therm? I know it's for water , but why? What's wrong with copper? Is copper bad and aqua therm good? We almost started to do some motels with it, but when we got pricing and labor hours compared to propress, the propress blew it away. It's like installing gas but putting water in it and having shiitloads of branches. Lots of labor.
> 
> Not being a prick, but I just don't understand it. What's so good about it ? Had a salesman want to certify us to run it and teach us how. We told him we use gas irons and asked him how much training do we really need?
> 
> Good clean work though !! Not as good as I would do it but good.


I agree 100% I can`t see how Aquatherm will save that much money over the Pro Press fittings and copper.


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## Craig (Nov 1, 2010)

GREENPLUM said:


> I'd bet yella CPVC glue would work, it works on everything.


You can't dry fit Aquatherm fittings to pipe, they must be heated with an iron


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## Craig (Nov 1, 2010)

justin said:


> That still doesent stop a hack from buying a coupling and gluing it on. Hacks will always find a way in.


Can't be dry fitted so yes it does prevent the hacks from coupling and gluing


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

Metal prices are going to rise in the next few years (again)

Copper is going to be so expensive it will become a thing of the past in a few decades.

The price of the pipe and materials are about the same, but labor is cheaper, as well as flux, solder and sand cloth.......it adds up


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## Craig (Nov 1, 2010)

justin said:


> What is purpose of aqua therm? I know it's for water , but why? What's wrong with copper? Is copper bad and aqua therm good? We almost started to do some motels with it, but when we got pricing and labor hours compared to propress, the propress blew it away. It's like installing gas but putting water in it and having shiitloads of branches. Lots of labor.
> 
> Not being a prick, but I just don't understand it. What's so good about it ? Had a salesman want to certify us to run it and teach us how. We told him we use gas irons and asked him how much training do we really need?
> 
> Good clean work though !! Not as good as I would do it but good.


Purpose of Aquatherm is to lower cost of labour and fittings. Material should always be less than copper, the material weighs much less, so you can easily prefab and handle into a building. Also you don't require very expensive reducing tee's which is a huge cost savings, being able to add a fusion outlet eliminates the need for those 3x3/4 tee's. On top of all this, typically copper is sized at running 5 f/s , polypropylene can be sized at 8 f/s , so think of all those 6" water mains that could now be downsized to 4". Aquatherm pipe also has very minimal thermal expansion, very close to that of copper. It can handle chemicals running through it, does not leach into water and does not scale....these are some of the biggest features over using copper, that and a life span of 60 years, 15 million insurance policy, NO LEAKS and a 10 year warranty.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Craig said:


> Purpose of Aquatherm is to lower cost of labour and fittings. Material should always be less than copper, the material weighs much less, so you can easily prefab and handle into a building. Also you don't require very expensive reducing tee's which is a huge cost savings, being able to add a fusion outlet eliminates the need for those 3x3/4 tee's. On top of all this, typically copper is sized at running 5 f/s , polypropylene can be sized at 8 f/s , so think of all those 6" water mains that could now be downsized to 4". Aquatherm pipe also has very minimal thermal expansion, very close to that of copper. It can handle chemicals running through it, does not leach into water and does not scale....these are some of the biggest features over using copper, that and a life span of 60 years, 15 million insurance policy, NO LEAKS and a 10 year warranty.


Probably good stuff, but I don't see how it saves in labor compared to propress. No contest . Propress warranty fittings for 50 years and valves for 2. Copper lasts forever if installed correctly. Everything usually boils down to proper installation. 

It's just like pex,. We install a lot of it and I think it is a hunk of shiit!! I can't wait till it all dries up and starts cracking under slabs and in hot dry attics. Trust me , it's coming .


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Craig said:


> Purpose of Aquatherm is to lower cost of labour and fittings. Material should always be less than copper, the material weighs much less, so you can easily prefab and handle into a building. Also you don't require very expensive reducing tee's which is a huge cost savings, being able to add a fusion outlet eliminates the need for those 3x3/4 tee's. On top of all this, typically copper is sized at running 5 f/s , polypropylene can be sized at 8 f/s , so think of all those 6" water mains that could now be downsized to 4". Aquatherm pipe also has very minimal thermal expansion, very close to that of copper. It can handle chemicals running through it, does not leach into water and does not scale....these are some of the biggest features over using copper, that and a life span of 60 years, 15 million insurance policy, NO LEAKS and a 10 year warranty.


Probably good stuff, but I don't see how it saves in labor compared to propress. No contest . Propress warranty fittings for 50 years and valves for 2. Copper lasts forever if installed correctly. Everything usually boils down to proper installation. 

It's just like pex,. We install a lot of it and I think it is a hunk of shiit!! I can't wait till it all dries up and starts cracking under slabs and in hot dry attics. Trust me , it's coming .


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## Craig (Nov 1, 2010)

justin said:


> Probably good stuff, but I don't see how it saves in labor compared to propress. No contest . Propress warranty fittings for 50 years and valves for 2. Copper lasts forever if installed correctly. Everything usually boils down to proper installation.
> 
> It's just like pex,. We install a lot of it and I think it is a hunk of shiit!! I can't wait till it all dries up and starts cracking under slabs and in hot dry attics. Trust me , it's coming .



I was comparing labour to soldering, the cost of those progress fittings leaves no advantage on the labour side, whereas Aquatherm has less expensive fittings plus a speedy install, you're not sacrificing one for the other..Copper is very vulnerable to bad water conditions, so saying it lasts forever is very inaccurate, if you get 20 years with no leaks you're pretty damn lucky. And polypropylene is nothing like pex, its already been installed in many applications for 30+ years no problem, and is used already for acid waste piping.


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## plumbing ninja (Jan 15, 2012)

Craig said:


> I was comparing labour to soldering, the cost of those progress fittings leaves no advantage on the labour side, whereas Aquatherm has less expensive fittings plus a speedy install, you're not sacrificing one for the other..Copper is very vulnerable to bad water conditions, so saying it lasts forever is very inaccurate, if you get 20 years with no leaks you're pretty damn lucky. And polypropylene is nothing like pex, its already been installed in many applications for 30+ years no problem, and is used already for acid waste piping.


Propress fittings are way quicker to install than Aquatherm or should I say PPR (that way Im not dogging a particular PPR manufacturer). Copper can be prone to certain water conditions and PPR can be prone to environmental conditions too. My colleague worked in Japan way back in his rugby playing days and he tells me they use the stainless version of Propress (their mains are stainless too) because of its hygienic and seismic qualities!


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## union brother 1 (Feb 25, 2012)

Looks nice and uniformed.,just dont like plastic


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## Keefer w (Jan 26, 2012)

ok, i have been looking online for how to install on site. all i can find is video showing connections done at a workbench. how do you make connections that cannot be prefabbed? as in, connecting tees, 90s, etc up in a ceiling area or retro fitting?


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## Craig (Nov 1, 2010)

Smaller connections you can fit an iron in pretty easily, larger sizes I'll be using the jig which can get a bit bulky, guys that are experienced with it still have complaints with even using the jig up in ceiling runs. You'll want to plan ahead as much as possible so you don't put yourself in awkward situations with it, just makes your life easier that way.


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

Copy that. Planning ahead is a must with Aquatherm. I've done quite a few joints with the jig on a lift or sideways on the pipe doing a vertical joint. It's a pain to put it lightly.


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## Islandviking (Mar 16, 2012)

I used Aquatherm and fusiotherm pipes a few years ago (like 6-7) it is possible to do it all with one guy, but I do prefer having an extra hand on installing.. I'm not to impressed with the installation methods of Aquatherm but its really reliable and hardly ever leak (no leaks yet) but it takes some power to press two 4" pipes together.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Islandviking said:


> I used Aquatherm and fusiotherm pipes a few years ago (like 6-7) it is possible to do it all with one guy, but I do prefer having an extra hand on installing.. I'm not to impressed with the installation methods of Aquatherm but its really reliable and hardly ever leak (no leaks yet) but it takes some power to press two 4" pipes together.


 






'Round here, it is kindly requested that new guys post us an intro; years in the trade, licenses held, etc., etc., etc., etc.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

plumbing ninja said:


> My colleague worked in Japan way back in his rugby playing days and he tells me they use the stainless version of Propress (their mains are stainless too) because of its hygienic and seismic qualities!


Stainless will still corrode in the presence of chlorine. With more and more water reclamation, expect higher levels of chlorine in your water. The places I do the most copper pinhole repairs also have the highest chlorine levels in tap water.


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## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

Nikolai said:


> Copy that. Planning ahead is a must with Aquatherm. I've done quite a few joints with the jig on a lift or sideways on the pipe doing a vertical joint. It's a pain to put it lightly.


I've got a few unwanted aquatherm permanent tattoos after a bad week with it haha


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## Islandviking (Mar 16, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> 'Round here, it is kindly requested that new guys post us an intro; years in the trade, licenses held, etc., etc., etc., etc.


Where do i post that ?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Islandviking said:


> Where do i post that ?


 







http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/ 

In the introduction section.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Seems to be the way of the future! It just came too Canada half a year ago like centrotherm. No glue either so it meets LEEDS up here as green friendly... so is hubless cast iron lol!


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## Craig (Nov 1, 2010)

pilot light said:


> Seems to be the way of the future! It just came too Canada half a year ago like centrotherm. No glue either so it meets LEEDS up here as green friendly... so is hubless cast iron lol!


it's actually been in Canada for 7 years now , 2005 it was brought in.


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