# Told you there would be a charge If.



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Had a call today "Sunday" Home owner on a septic tank with back up. Ask when was the tank last pumped?
Said it has been 3 years on a 2000 gallon tank his builder installed said he "should" be fine for 4+ years. Maybe you should have it pumped first. He thinks it's clogged. Said OK I'll come out but If the tank if full I still charge for the sewer cleaning plus a small Sunday service fee add $50.00 per calls on Sundays. 
HO agrees. Get to job perform work Tank full. Outside clean out maybe a 10 foot run to tank. Informed HO tank is full that will be $250.00
He has a fit say's I'm a robber charging those rates.
Told him If tank is full I still charge. You chose to call me on a Sunday to clear your line thinking your tank was not full. When I said it could be even at 3 years maybe you should try getting it pumped. I don't know how much you use or maintain or get your systems filter checked. 

Do you charge if tank is full? I do.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

How far did you hafta drive?


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> How far did you hafta drive?


50 minutes out of town.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Yep, trip charge, and service fee. Hey, you tried to tell him.


----------



## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I would charge him something for my time but it would be based on whether I wanted my phones to continue to ring. 

Mark


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> 50 minutes out of town.


 Noway!!!!! Charge him every penny!!!! Thats crazy!!!!! Thats over 2 hrs of your time and gas!!!!! If I made trips like that....I would make sure i got a credit card and charged it before I even go. man how many times have you gotten to a job 50 minutes away and no one be home???even after you call them and say your on the way????


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Even with an outside clean out I still had to lug the machine down like 30 steep stairs to his back yard where tank was.


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Noway!!!!! Charge him every penny!!!! Thats crazy!!!!! Thats over 2 hrs of your time and gas!!!!! If I made trips like that....I would make sure i got a credit card and charged it before I even go. man how many times have you gotten to a job 50 minutes away and no one be home???even after you call them and say your on the way????


So far none. But you have a good point there. If they are not on site I do ask for a credit card. Have not been burned yet.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

You know Im gonna charge, and 250 sounds like a deal


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Here comes the gasoline on the fire.......How much do you normally charge in your area. Any conciliation is considered a kindness and doesnt have to be that much. You one man shops who are so high strung are up for a rude awakening. If not now, then when you cant move around so well. Better have your finances in order. The screw you buddy attitude will come back--and so will some movement towards kindness.


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Here comes the gasoline on the fire.......How much do you normally charge in your area. Any conciliation is considered a kindness and doesnt have to be that much. You one man shops who are so high strung are up for a rude awakening. If not now, then when you cant move around so well. Better have your finances in order. The screw you buddy attitude will come back--and so will some movement towards kindness.


First 100 feet with clean out in town. $175.00. Out of town $200.00 $50.00 extra on Sunday. Heck Big guys up here getting 300+ travel and fuel charge. I may need to go up a bit on service rates.
I try to be as fair as possible. But I did travel almost an hour and spent and hour there.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Here comes the gasoline on the fire.......How much do you normally charge in your area. Any conciliation is considered a kindness and doesnt have to be that much. You one man shops who are so high strung are up for a rude awakening. If not now, then when you cant move around so well. Better have your finances in order. The screw you buddy attitude will come back--and so will some movement towards kindness.


I Would Charge around $400-$500 for this type of Sunday call.

And to the rest of your post, I respect your thoughts. :whistling2:

How do you know I am so "High Strung"? I am not, I am Humble One Man Show.

My finances are ok, I am no Bill Gates yet

I live by the "Golden Rule" so you get what you give


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Here comes the gasoline on the fire.......How much do you normally charge in your area. Any conciliation is considered a kindness and doesnt have to be that much. You one man shops who are so high strung are up for a rude awakening. If not now, then when you cant move around so well. Better have your finances in order. The screw you buddy attitude will come back--and so will some movement towards kindness.


So which is it???? Get our finances together or be kind? I would charge him the 250 for the drive time alone. He told the man upfront what the cost would be. Sounds like a case of buyers remorse to me.....a real man would have said "well you warned me,heres your money and thanks for coming out". Personally I'd never go back to that guys house. He called me.....I didn't call him!!!! The guys a jerk!
Thats the same as going out to eat dinner and ordering a small size off the menu and then wanting a disount because your still hungry. NO NO NO you got what you paid for!!!!


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Easy Green, I dont know for sure who is one man....I dont know you. I respect the fact you got a bit unnerved. The customer gets nothing? for $250. How about a softer hand, take off the Sunday fee, fix something while youre there and offer a coupon for next service call apologeticly. Win a customer and maybe they have a friend etc. Plumbers who dont pump is the same scenario around me. If the pump truck minimum fee is less push that especially if you can work a relationship with the septic company. Theres a lot to do other than close off to a customer and that is a sure bridge burner. If you dont need more customers fine.


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> So which is it???? Get our finances together or be kind? I would charge him the 250 for the drive time alone. He told the man upfront what the cost would be. Sounds like a case of buyers remorse to me.....a real man would have said "well you warned me,heres your money and thanks for coming out". Personally I'd never go back to that guys house. He called me.....I didn't call him!!!! The guys a jerk!
> Thats the same as going out to eat dinner and ordering a small size off the menu and then wanting a disount because your still hungry. NO NO NO you got what you paid for!!!!


 Master, 
I lived my 1st 35 years in Chicago so I am not offended or intimidated by attitude. "The guys a jerk" for getting nothing for $250. Hes a jerk because he called you would be the next step in that logic. Skills gets you hired and attitude gets you fired. Its one thing to flex on a forum but real people wont be so engaging.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Easy Green, I dont know for sure who is one man....I dont know you. I respect the fact you got a bit unnerved. The customer gets nothing? for $250. How about a softer hand, take off the Sunday fee, fix something while youre there and offer a coupon for next service call apologeticly. Win a customer and maybe they have a friend etc. Plumbers who dont pump is the same scenario around me. If the pump truck minimum fee is less push that especially if you can work a relationship with the septic company. Theres a lot to do other than close off to a customer and that is a sure bridge burner. If you dont need more customers fine.


 

That's only one interpretation, and the attitude that you "think" that customer is going to not complain about his mistake.

His mistake being a $250, a $200, a $150 dollar mistake depending on stupid you think you're going to be to "think" that customer is going to call you back.


He's not. He made a huge mistake costing him money. No discount for ignorance and anticipation this idiot does it again....and most likely look forward to that coupon or some bullshit.


The dice are rolled when an oral agreement is made on the phone. He (The Plumber) gave the costs over the phone, the customer took that chance and assumed the tank wasn't full. 

I have found that my emergency customers are the least loyal to me, meaning they used me in a pinch. 

I made good money, they went back to their regular plumber, everyone is happy. 

But I wouldn't give two ****'s about a customer 50 minutes away that now wants to play lets make a deal because he made a mistake. 

Plumbers need to grow some balls and hold to the agreement and stick with it, let the customer learn from the mistake, and who cares if they never call you back. 

The phone will just keep ringing and let him tell the entire street....it does not matter if you're consistently doing your job correctly. 

Putting that much emphasis on a keeping one retard happy isn't how business is. 

When I work for a customer, I'm charging like I'm never seeing them again, and that does not imply I'm ripping them off. It means that your loyalty extends through financial discount when you're lining my pockets on a regular basis. 

Dealing with idiots in this business should constitute a higher wage, always.


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I hear this, "the customer is a retard %#^@ and Im the big big big expert plumbing contractor-businessman-tough guy with big everything-whatever," and I wonder if you are married, have kids, have friends, know happiness. The only retardation is the emotional maturity of your comments. I dont give a rip what you charge. And go ahead screw as many as you can. I cant imagine raising children to interact with people this way.


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

"Putting that much emphasis on a keeping one retard happy isn't how business is."

Duck, 
you are the best. I wanna do some Big City Sliders with you, in honor of Billy Mays passing, plus the descriptions they would generate as they leave your colorectal region.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Master,
> I lived my 1st 35 years in Chicago so I am not offended or intimidated by attitude. "The guys a jerk" for getting nothing for $250. Hes a jerk because he called you would be the next step in that logic. Skills gets you hired and attitude gets you fired. Its one thing to flex on a forum but real people wont be so engaging.


 WTF do you mean by the customer got "nothing"???? He got professional service on sunday and had the man drive for a total of 2 hours. Yeah hes a jerk for calling me if he thought he didn't have to pay after i told the jerk what the cost would be even if its not clogged up. Drain cleaners not only get paid for unclogging the line,they get paid for "attempting" to unclogg the drain.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Easy Green, I dont know for sure who is one man....I dont know you. I respect the fact you got a bit unnerved. The customer gets nothing? for $250. How about a softer hand, take off the Sunday fee, fix something while youre there and offer a coupon for next service call apologeticly. Win a customer and maybe they have a friend etc. Plumbers who dont pump is the same scenario around me. If the pump truck minimum fee is less push that especially if you can work a relationship with the septic company. Theres a lot to do other than close off to a customer and that is a sure bridge burner. If you dont need more customers fine.


That is not true sir that is you assuming i got unnerved ( you know what they say about assuming stuff right)

"How about a softer hand" looking at my hands they are cover in glue/sweat/ and rough calluses/ cuts/etc. These things are not very "soft"

"take off the sunday fee" Why? its Sunday

Sir I WORK to make MONEY not FRIENDS. I got enough friends anyway.

Why would I cut a deal for a guy that AGREES to the PRICE over the phone and CRIES when it time to pay up. I dont want a customer like that.

"fix something while youre there and offer a coupon for next service call apologeticly" I dont do coupons and "apologeticly" really? you would do this? Not this guy. Ive always said "This dog BITES back"

Sounds like your livin in the past or in a small town. There is over 2 million people here. I think your "ways" would change if exposed to my eniviorment. Most of my customers are not the nicest people. Add the tough economy and they get mad at the plumber before I even get there.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

stillaround said:


> I hear this, "the customer is a retard %#^@ and Im the big big big expert plumbing contractor-businessman-tough guy with big everything-whatever," and I wonder if you are married, have kids, have friends, know happiness. The only retardation is the emotional maturity of your comments. I dont give a rip what you charge. And go ahead screw as many as you can. I cant imagine raising children to interact with people this way.


 I would want to teach my kids that you pay for peoples time that you call on sunday because your an idiot and didn't listen to what the plumber told you on the phone and you made him drive for 2 hrs for mothing. thats what i'd teach my kids. Thats the problem with america now......people dont think they should have to pay for their own mistakes,like that homeowner


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

In all fairness. when I got there if the home owner would have dug up the cover to the tank like many do, And said I found out it was full on your way down here. I would have charged only a service call plus a Sunday charge.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

stillaround said:


> I hear this, "the customer is a retard %#^@ and Im the big big big expert plumbing contractor-businessman-tough guy with big everything-whatever," and I wonder if you are married, have kids, have friends, know happiness. The only retardation is the emotional maturity of your comments. I dont give a rip what you charge. And go ahead screw as many as you can. I cant imagine raising children to interact with people this way.


 
Are you finished whining yet? 


For the record are you saying you're a rolling soup kitchen? :laughing:


Is that what you want all us plumbers to be, a bunch of pansies with hearts on our sleeves....don't sweat the money end it all pans out? 


Put your credentials up for all of us to see. 

I want to see your background and what I'm not dealing with right now in common sense.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

The customer in question wouldn't drag all his tools too your house 50 miles away for nothing. 

I don't really see what is to debate. You have to be paid to cover overhead.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Roast Duck said:


> Are you finished whining yet?
> 
> 
> For the record are you saying you're a rolling soup kitchen? :laughing:
> ...


 Thats the whole problem with giving your work away for free......your letting your customers become addicted and expect welfare from the dumbass plumber so they can buy a new plasma screen


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)




----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Okay Master...one last shot and Ill drop it. If you were walking down the street and some cranky lady tripped I assume if was in your power youd help her even tho she was a crank--because you dont want to see anyone really hurt(I hope Im not wrong here). So heres a customer that made a mistake and hes insecure and complains about a bill that stings him a bit maybe and its in your power to somehow in some small way ease his mistake. How about a coupon--anything? Where does your generous nature stop? Whats the threshold where once its crossed ..screw the retard. How much do you have to collect to feel like you are the winner--everything always. Why not build some contingencies in your price.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Thats the whole problem with giving your work away for free......your letting your customers become addicted and expect welfare from the dumbass plumber so they can buy a new plasma screen


Thank YOU!! WHY would you WORK for FREE???? (unless its your biz)

TRUST ME your customers DONT work for FREE and would charge YOU FULL price for there services (unless you worka horsetrade)


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

We all do what we feel to be rite. 
If some old lady did not flip a trip waste in town charge or don't charge. Me and Green had this talk before :laughing: I have given time to help people.
We can't do everthing at a discount we are in business to make money.


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Who said free? How much mental power does it take to deal with each situation---listen to your own posts ---retard,,jerk etc etc --what does that say?


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Okay Master...one last shot and Ill drop it. If you were walking down the street and some cranky lady tripped I assume if was in your power youd help her even tho she was a crank--because you dont want to see anyone really hurt(I hope Im not wrong here). So heres a customer that made a mistake and hes insecure and complains about a bill that stings him a bit maybe and its in your power to somehow in some small way ease his mistake. How about a coupon--anything? Where does your generous nature stop? Whats the threshold where once its crossed ..screw the retard. How much do you have to collect to feel like you are the winner--everything always. Why not build some contingencies in your price.


 You cant compare an old lady falling down and a guy *****ing about his plumbing bill. Two totally different situations. We have a fundamental difference in opinion on what getting screwed means. The man provided professional service and deserves to be paid what he quoted. Heres an example......say I go out to dinner and order a large meal and the waitress says....Wow its alot of food you might not can eat all of it and we do not offer take-out box's for left overs and the guy orders the large anyway but cannot eat it all and wants a refund.......did he get screwed or did he screw himself? Why should i pay for his dumb mistake? just because he's an idiot doesn't mean I hafta be one and help him pay his plumbing bill. I run my business like i'm an employee.....otherwise you will give your work away for free. Go to the dr and complaining you think you have a brain tumor.....have the tests...and find out you do have a brain tumor.....i bet you still get a bill. They would send a dying man a bill????? wow what jerks huh. According to your logic dr's would be free. sounds like socialism to me.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Lets keep things civil. :thumbup: Purty please......


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Lets keep things civil. :thumbup: Purty please......


 I agree I was being sarcastic....I would help stillaround if he has plumbing problems when he gets old:thumbsup: For free too:thumbup:


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Who said free? How much mental power does it take to deal with each situation---listen to your own posts ---retard,,jerk etc etc --what does that say?


 
It takes ALOT OF MENTAL POWER TO DEAL WITH IT. I am thinking you have NO IDEA what us PLUMBERS are talkin about. 

"retard,,jerk etc etc --what does that say?" It says you have a soft "shell" and you dont know what were talkin about. Are you a Childrens School Counselor.


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Maybe I should not post what work I have done free or charged for. It does help liven things up.


----------



## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

First off I don't know anyone who would take a first time customer who is almost an hour out, as an emergency call, especially when you already suspect a full tank. However, it seems the majority of the threads you have started have been about either unhappy customers or slow times so you may need to take what you get. There are two ways to look at business and customers. The first way is to look at the customer as you only get one bite at the apple so you better take it now. The second way to look at it is as building a loyal customer base which will be there in good and bad. 

I probably would have taken off the Sunday charge or something and sold it to him like it was a favor. Who knows he may even need his lines cleared after the tank is pumped. His perception of you on Sunday could make a difference on Monday.

By the way a nuisance emergency call I did 28-years ago still gives my shop a minimum of $10,000 a month in service work. That's at least $3,360,000 worth of payroll, trucks and equipment over the long term. You never know when that one call is going to make a difference.

Mark


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> You cant compare an old lady falling down and a guy *****ing about his plumbing bill. Two totally different situations. We have a fundamental difference in opinion on what getting screwed means. *The man provided professional service and deserves to be paid what he quoted*. Heres an example......say I go out to dinner and order a large meal and the waitress says....Wow its alot of food you might not can eat all of it and we do not offer take-out box's for left overs and the guy orders the large anyway but cannot eat it all and wants a refund.......did he get screwed or did he screw himself? Why should i pay for his dumb mistake? just because he's an idiot doesn't mean I hafta be one and help him pay his plumbing bill. I run my business like i'm an employee.....otherwise you will give your work away for free. Go to the dr and complaining you think you have a brain tumor.....have the tests...and find out you do have a brain tumor.....i bet you still get a bill. They would send a dying man a bill????? wow what jerks huh. According to your logic dr's would be free. sounds like socialism to me.


 Yes he deserves it..so what..can you help..if not , fine. Can you make him feel better in some way or do you not want to try? Duh! These arent tough thoughts. So how much better do you feel that hes a %$^%# or whatever. You dont have the time to try...too much effort? not worth it? Fine.


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> First off I don't know anyone who would take a first time customer who is almost an hour out, as an emergency call, especially when you already suspect a full tank. However, it seems the majority of the threads you have started have been about either unhappy customers or slow times so you may need to take what you get. There are two ways to look at business and customers. The first way is to look at the customer as you only get one bite at the apple so you better take it now. The second way to look at it is as building a loyal customer base which will be there in good and bad.
> 
> I probably would have taken off the Sunday charge or something and sold it to him like it was a favor. Who knows he may even need his lines cleared after the tank is pumped. His perception of you on Sunday could make a difference on Monday.
> 
> ...


I did tell this guy and on the bill. If the line backed up after pumping I would resnake no charge But only if clog is between out side clean out to tank. Not like I left him out in the cold.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> First off I don't know anyone who would take a first time customer who is almost an hour out, as an emergency call, especially when you already suspect a full tank. However, it seems the majority of the threads you have started have been about either unhappy customers or slow times so you may need to take what you get. There are two ways to look at business and customers. The first way is to look at the customer as you only get one bite at the apple so you better take it now. The second way to look at it is as building a loyal customer base which will be there in good and bad.
> 
> I probably would have taken off the Sunday charge or something and sold it to him like it was a favor. Who knows he may even need his lines cleared after the tank is pumped. His perception of you on Sunday could make a difference on Monday.
> 
> ...


 I can tell your a good business man by your posts. The most I would have discounted if any would be 10%. That would depend on the guys attitude about the situation and that didn't sound good to me. So this one guy would not get any deal. I for sure have given discounts but its never to a 1st time customer. The 1st trip is all business...always. I've also had very sucessful businessmen refuse discounts and tell me I was crazy for trying to give them a discount.....business is business they said. Give to the church not to your customers is what they said.


----------



## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

UnclogNH said:


> Had a call today "Sunday" Home owner on a septic tank with back up. Ask when was the tank last pumped?
> Said it has been 3 years on a 2000 gallon tank his builder installed said he "should" be fine for 4+ years. Maybe you should have it pumped first. He thinks it's clogged. Said OK I'll come out but If the tank if full I still charge for the sewer cleaning plus a small Sunday service fee add $50.00 per calls on Sundays.
> HO agrees. Get to job perform work Tank full. Outside clean out maybe a 10 foot run to tank. Informed HO tank is full that will be $250.00
> He has a fit say's I'm a robber charging those rates.
> ...


 
You had every right to charge what you quoted. You tried to steer him in the correct direction and he refused to take your advice. You did what you said you would and it was just as you told him. Move on and keep doing as your are doing. We all give something here and there but thats up to each of us when we want to be a bleeding heart. Try to relax and enjoy whats left of your Sunday!


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

To Green and Duck,
Ive posted my credentials before ..so here they are in more detail yet I know you wont care.
Graduated 7th out of 600 , College 4 years finished 3.4 avg., 10 years Chicago plumbing-4 years Illinois apprenticeship, Banner plumbing, Ray T Meyer Plumbing, Pasquesi Plumbing ( the premier north shore company 3.5 yrs with him tho he would have liked to hit me at times) a couple of jobbers, 21 years in Florida my own business--stayed small--no more than 10 at any time. Usually operated 6 peeps 4 trucks. Under 1.3 million gross on better years, behind the desk and vacationed for a few years, downsized with the crunch to 2 sons and a part time daughter after letting everyone go. I do know what a customer is--and even if hes a jerk--he gets some effort.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

And Mark you know the gammut. You know that not everyone is going to produce 3.5 million dollars of revenue over a number of years.


Given the state of the economy and the fact that people are whittling the tradesmen down pretty bad these days...the last thing we need right now is being sacrificial lambs to the cause. 


I can lay money on the call above that even charging $50 dollars was $50 too much to this guy. No doubt about it because he's in a double spend situation.


Now, I've got enough years under the belt to know how many "good deeds" and how many "kind favors" to know how many have paid me back in the long run.


NOT MANY. So the gamble is in the head, not in print when it comes to making the money that was an expectation of earnings that was laid out perfectly before he left.


Now, if I was the plumber who went out? Pay attention stillaround because you need to learn from what I got to say: 


I would of arrived in same fashion, pulled that machine off the truck, went down, inspected that cleanout and determined that the tank was full. 


I would of told the customer, explained to him that the tank is full and it's a totally different problem. I then would tell him his options: 

It's sunday, the rate cannot be changed, I can still rod the drain and whip that waste matter up like a milk shake in the piping because when the tank started backing up all that sediment started laying back into the last 10'-15' of the drain. I would proceed to let him know that I'm called countless times to rod drains AFTER the tank was cleared, giving him clear indication that my time is worth the effort, and justifies the money you're about to spend, because you're spending it regardless.

I pin him to a corner and demand an answer, "Do you want me to rod the drain to make sure it's clear for when the tank gets pumped or do you want to spend $250 for basically a diagnostic fee?"


The reasonable person is going to listen to logic and get their money's worth...they are spending the same amount of money. 

But that's me, and I know that last 10-15' of that waste matter is sitting/leading to that tank because the solids always slow down when the tank is full. 

Even though the customer doesn't "see" the result, you've embedded the charge and gave out the education value that there's waste hardening up in that line, and IF I DON'T ROD THAT DRAIN, you're going to have to spend possibly twice for drain cleaning services.


"Make sure you're flushing the toilets and running all faucets when the guy comes to pump the tank." 


Soup Kitchen Forums >>>>>> thataway


_*"The best mistakes learned are ones that cost money. Otherwise there's no valid reason sometimes to not repeat it."*_ * Roast Duck - 2009*


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

stillaround said:


> To Green and Duck,
> Ive posted my credentials before ..so here they are in more detail yet I know you wont care.
> Graduated 7th out of 600 , College 4 years finished 3.4 avg., 10 years Chicago plumbing-4 years Illinois apprenticeship, Banner plumbing, Ray T Meyer Plumbing, Pasquesi Plumbing ( the premier north shore company 3.5 yrs with him tho he would have liked to hit me at times) a couple of jobbers, 21 years in Florida my own business--stayed small--no more than 10 at any time. Usually operated 6 peeps 4 trucks. Under 1.3 million gross on better years, behind the desk and vacationed for a few years, downsized with the crunch to 2 sons and a part time daughter after letting everyone go. I do know what a customer is--and even if hes a jerk--he gets some effort.


Thats Impressive sir. I think your business ethic is kinda "old school" and I respect it but I dont follow in that direction. I dont think it would work here. Good day to you


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

How about your credentials duck?


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> Maybe I should not post what work I have done free or charged for. It does help liven things up.


 I've done so much work for free when i was alot younger.....i dunno why i did that. I loved plumbing so much i'd do it for literally free I guess. i still help neighbors for free. I remember doing a 60' water service bootlegged with no permit for an old lady for 60.00 in 89 when I was in high school. It took me all day.....my dad came and acted like the plumbing inspector. he made me cut 2 90's out and replace with 45's and dig my trench on a 45. I was mad as hells bells about having to re-dig the trench!:laughing:


----------



## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

When it comes to ethics it doesn't matter if it's old school or new school it's what works for you. The real test is when you're ready to hang your tools up have you made a difference and have you got enough left for your retirement? I believe George Brazil had over 200 service trucks before he filled bankruptcy. Now he makes money by selling what he learned to others.

Mark


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

stillaround said:


> How about your credentials duck?


 

Ahh thought you'd never ask :laughing:


Been plumbing since 1986, 23 years. Licensed Master Plumber in KY, Licensed in Ohio (if that really means anything these days) and licensed backflow tester since 89'. 

This second tour of business was created out of ZERO, NOTHING, NADDA. 

No customer, no clientell, no anything. Just the drive that I'm going somewhere and it's happening. 7 years later and I'm supporting two other companies stung by the economy and working on a project with ******* (joe) that's going to make window watchers out of all you. You think that's not going to happen then be my critics; predict my failure and I'll ram success. 

Been hammering these keys in plumbing forums since 2002, I recently rekindled some old stomping grounds of mine on a few sites, currently admin two well known plumbing sites (findplumbing.com/masterplumbers.com) and moderate other sites on a very casual basis. I own a few of my own sites, sitting on numerous domains I'll bring to life someday that will produce the value that I left this profession in better shape than before I entered it. 


I live eat and breathe my profession right now because it's the tool that launches me into my other endeavors. Am I feeling special? No. But I don't lay down to customers and mindset hardships. 

You read what I would of done in the case presented and that's a plumber who cares. Giving away pieces of paper for the "next time" isn't consolation to some people when they've fubbed up. 

The whole situation is bad and I don't care if I ever see them again...I did my job and to the best of my ability, why should I cowl down. 

When you have a bad day at work ,

Do you go into the grocery store and bring your grapefruit to the counter, expect the store to sell it to you for less? 

Don't F**King expect it from me, and don't imply to the profession that beating your own pricing down makes any sense. 

Remember the biblical saying, "Your journey to heaven isn't paved by one's work or contributions on earth, but by one's belief." 

So I wonder why so many act like they feel it's a guarantee. Human kind, yes.....but didn't you just leave your family to help another on a sunday?


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Unclog its your business run it the way you feel you should. You were upfront with this guy and told him exactly what you were going to charge him for and he still told you to come out. I would have done the same thing. Living in a rural area like you do its not like you have the pick of the litter as far as customers go. You take what you can get just like I do.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

al said:


> Unclog its your business run it the way you feel you should. You were upfront with this guy and told him exactly what you were going to charge him for and he still told you to come out. I would have done the same thing. Living in a rural area like you do its not like you have the pick of the litter as far as customers go. You take what you can get just like I do.


 I would have and have done the same thing. You warned the guy, he said come on out , he owes you since he did not take your warning. 

When we get huge rain falls around here. The phone will start to ring off the wall in some towns. I tell the people to check with the city first to make sure the city sewer is flowing. If they insist I still come out, I explain to them if I show up and the city sewer is backed up, they will have to pay me for my time. Many of people do not heed my warning and end up paying me $140 to just check the city sewer.


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Okay Master...one last shot and Ill drop it. If you were walking down the street and some cranky lady tripped I assume if was in your power youd help her even tho she was a crank--because you dont want to see anyone really hurt(I hope Im not wrong here). So heres a customer that made a mistake and hes insecure and complains about a bill that stings him a bit maybe and its in your power to somehow in some small way ease his mistake. How about a coupon--anything? Where does your generous nature stop? Whats the threshold where once its crossed ..screw the retard. How much do you have to collect to feel like you are the winner--everything always. Why not build some contingencies in your price.


 Was the lady told she was going to trip like the customer unclog is talking about who was told how much it was going to cost. If she was told she was going to trip and did it anyway I would think the old lady was out for an insurance claim. Just like that gentleman was told how much it was going to cost amd he still told him to come out. He was thinking that he could get a freebie out of the deal.


----------



## express (Nov 22, 2008)

this makes me think about a small job I did recently for a guy I know. I installed a dishwasher for him for $15.00 less then I normally would. After using it he doesn't like it so "blow's" will let him have a new one. wants me to put in the 2nd one for less money then the first. It took me longer because I had to bring it back to the store to get the new one. When I buy insurance from him I pay full price, why do people think we should work for less? here's the kicker, he will cut me a check when he gets back from vacation. sometimes I think the Greek word for plumber is "moron" thanks I feel better


----------



## Song Dog (Jun 12, 2008)

I'm kinda confused here. Whats the argument??? UC told the customer what it would cost with or with out work performed. HO agreed to have him come out. UC, you did what the ho wanted and was up front with everything, what else could you do?
Or maybe I'm not seeing it, but HO agreed.

In Christ,

Song Dog


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Some say I should have gave the guy a break on the price. Some say I was rite in chraging what I quoted th HO on a sunday over the phone.

Maybe some feel I abused the customer But I was up front about it.
If the customes don't know if there tank is full or clogged I still charge for the line cleaning.

I guess my main question is do anyone else charge if the tank is full.
There is noway for us to know with out running the line or digging up the cover.


----------



## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

UnclogNH said:


> Some say I should have gave the guy a break on the price. Some say I was rite in chraging what I quoted th HO on a sunday over the phone.
> 
> Maybe some feel I abused the customer But I was up front about it.
> If the customes don't know if there tank is full or clogged I still charge for the line cleaning.
> ...


Well, I guess you could tell him that you have a charge of xxx to come down and uncover the lid and check it. then if its clogged then xxx more to cable. I still think you did right. the customer could have checked first if they wanted.


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> Well, I guess you could tell him that you have a charge of xxx to come down and uncover the lid and check it. then if its clogged then xxx more to cable. I still think you did right. the customer could have checked first if they wanted.


One big problem I have up here and I'm sure it happens everywhere
Ask HO do you know where the septic lid is 70% have no clue or forgot.
Or don't want you to wreck their pretty grass. But I do let them know if the drain backs up due to pumping I return no charge,


----------



## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Song Dog said:


> I'm kinda confused here. Whats the argument??? UC told the customer what it would cost with or with out work performed. HO agreed to have him come out. UC, you did what the ho wanted and was up front with everything, what else could you do?
> Or maybe I'm not seeing it, but HO agreed.
> 
> In Christ,
> ...


I see it the same way.
*1) Customer requested sunday service.
2) Customer agreed to price and terms of service.
3) Customer got exactly the service they asked for.
4) Customer should now pay for that service as agreed.
*
End of story.

The fact that this customer called him a "robber" after agreeing to all the simple terms upfront, shows that this customer is dishonest. He agreed to pay the price and then when the work is done...he complains???:no: NO WAY!

That is like going to a restaurant and ordering $300 worth of food and wine from the printed menu and then complaining about the price _AFTER_ you eat! That is WRONG in my book.


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

service guy said:


> I see it the same way.
> *1) Customer requested sunday service.*
> *2) Customer agreed to price and terms of service.*
> *3) Customer got exactly the service they asked for.*
> ...


Not quite end of story. I agree 
1.the customer clearly owes the fee
2. he obviously tried to weasel out
3. to some now he is a jerk,retard and idiot and deserves the judgement passed 
4. the original question was to justify the charge--no contest on ethics--question mark is ..can something else be done to deal with this kind of person? To some its too much effort or they are happier passing a customer "death sentence " without any reconsiderations to satisfy some insecurity or ego high. There are things that can said or done that might gain some future benefit. Maybe not. I think the pile on tough guy plumber schtik is worn out. But I dont care what any of them do--their credentials are weak and their life probably reflects that.
I never said free and I charge more than some here. Anybody who wants to gain a customer base needs to explore a newer avenue than screw him hes a jerk--which some say Im old school.
Go to a restaurant and complain about the meal and a good manager will be out there seeing if he can please you--with dessert or something. Naturally a chronic complainer gets the door. The idea of not relooking at a customer complaint of this nature buries the head in the sand.


----------



## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

There is one thing I didn't see mentioned everywhere.

The HO knew what he was agreeing to and there was a verbal agreement. The HO gambled and lost. HO is angry and has to direct his anger somewhere. Not only was he shown to be foolish, it is going to cost him $250. and another man knows he messed up. HO *KNOWS* you are not a thief as you tried to warn him. HO's ego is crushed and the only way to salvage some of it is to try and place the blame on the plumber who showed up. Maybe none of this is personal and maybe he doesn't believe you are a thief - just maybe it was all about him and he felt the need to strike back. After all, didn't you say he was a MAN. And isn't this man's nature at the core? Protect the fragile ego above everything else. . .

As a business owner, we try to please every customer and be very fair. If a customer insists on a service we feel is unnecessary, we warn and advise of such quite passionately. If HO insists and it isn't in their favor, we are relieved of any guilt or responsibility. You can sympathize with the customer and still collect for your services.


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> Some say I should have gave the guy a break on the price. Some say I was rite in chraging what I quoted th HO on a sunday over the phone.
> 
> Maybe some feel I abused the customer But I was up front about it.
> If the customes don't know if there tank is full or clogged I still charge for the line cleaning.
> ...


I got a call one time. This guy said he had a stoppage I ask is it city sewer or septic. His answer septic. Next ? have you check to see if it is full. answer I don't know where it is at. I say o k will come out and locate for you and rod it out if needed. I get there walk behind the house lo and behold there is a metal lid about 10 ft from the patio. Open it up and there is the top of the tank. Take concrete lid off and the tank is full of solids. I tell him you need to call soemone to pump out your septic. He asked me can you pump it out. I tell him no I don't have a pumper truck. His question then why are you here? because you called me for a sewer stoppage. No where in my ad does it say septic service. O k he says. I go to the truck fill out the invoice and go to give it to him. I am not paying that you didn.t do anything. I tell him I did what I said what I was going to do over the phone. I drove almost 40 miles I located the tank for you and determined it was full and it needed pumping. You either pay me or I will call police and have you arrested for theft of services. after arguing back and forth he finally agreed to pay. Said he would never call me again. I told him that if he expected me to come out and work for him for free I didin't want his business anyway.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

al said:


> I got a call one time. This guy said he had a stoppage I ask is it city sewer or septic. His answer septic. Next ? have you check to see if it is full. answer I don't know where it is at. I say o k will come out and locate for you and rod it out if needed. I get there walk behind the house lo and behold there is a metal lid about 10 ft from the patio. Open it up and there is the top of the tank. Take concrete lid off and the tank is full of solids. I tell him you need to call soemone to pump out your septic. He asked me can you pump it out. I tell him no I don't have a pumper truck. His question then why are you here? because you called me for a sewer stoppage. No where in my ad does it say septic service. O k he says. I go to the truck fill out the invoice and go to give it to him. I am not paying that you didn.t do anything. I tell him I did what I said what I was going to do over the phone. I drove almost 40 miles I located the tank for you and determined it was full and it needed pumping. You either pay me or I will call police and have you arrested for theft of services. after arguing back and forth he finally agreed to pay. Said he would never call me again. I told him that if he expected me to come out and work for him for free I didin't want his business anyway.


 Here the cops will not arrested a guy like that....they come out and make a report so you will have proof for court. They treat that as a civil matter not a criminal one. If you order food and do not pay they will not arrest you here unless you try to run out....if you stay for the cops to get there,they will fill a report out and the resturant would have to file a court case. its screwed up but thats the way you do it here. you hafta file a court case. Now if they write you a bad check here...its over for them...the DA will come arrest them in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks if they can find the person.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Out here they arrest people for theft of services. It is just like if I gassed up and drove off with out paying. If the attendant got my plate number I will have a knock on my door and be charged with theft of services. 

I do not get many people not wanting to pay, but when I do I call the police right off my speed dial. Its funny when I refuse to leave they say they will call the cops so I bring up the number in my phone and tell them no problem I can call for them. Cops come and put them in cuffs take them to the station book them and let them go on an I-Bond. Most rather pay right there and then than get arrested.


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> Out here they arrest people for theft of services. It is just like if I gassed up and drove off with out paying. If the attendant got my plate number I will have a knock on my door and be charged with theft of services.
> 
> I do not get many people not wanting to pay, but when I do I call the police right off my speed dial. Its funny when I refuse to leave they say they will call the cops so I bring up the number in my phone and tell them no problem I can call for them. Cops come and put them in cuffs take them to the station book them and let them go on an I-Bond. Most rather pay right there and then than get arrested.


Be sure to add the extra time that you had to wait to get paid.


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Here the cops will not arrested a guy like that....they come out and make a report so you will have proof for court. They treat that as a civil matter not a criminal one. If you order food and do not pay they will not arrest you here unless you try to run out....if you stay for the cops to get there,they will fill a report out and the resturant would have to file a court case. its screwed up but thats the way you do it here. you hafta file a court case. Now if they write you a bad check here...its over for them...the DA will come arrest them in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks if they can find the person.


I don't know for sure what they do here I have never had it go that far. The customer usually caves in whenI say I will have you arrested for theft of services. They say no way. I take out my phone and say are you sure you want to find out.


----------



## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

hello master I am in bham too pinson area what sux is to run a line to septic with double blades out to tank run cable several times line fails to open put pressure bag in line (good easy outside cleanout) still no luck, leave (I dont open u dont pay) get call back from customer after tank was pumped line still stopped.Glad I didnt charge, septic guy was my friend ,he told ho tank was so full ,still had sludge in line ,ran cable back thru opened first time.That time ,glad I didnt charge found out later field lines were also full line and tank backed up in a few months you know rest of story field line repair eddie forgot to say it was old trusted customer who called septic guy I recommended and I charged full rate for 2nd call so it all worked out


----------

