# Apolloxpress leaks after crimp



## Ron100

Our supplier has brought in Apollo pro press fittings.
We use the Rigid tool.
With Viega fittings, or Grinnell, we never once had leaks after crimping - specifically fittings 1" and over.

We have hade 4 failures at press joints using the Apollo press fittings with different operators to boot. 1", 1 1/2" and 2" .

Tool is nearly new.
Pipes are cut square and deburred etc.

What's ridiculous is Apollo "notches" their o rings in 4 areas as preliminary leak path should the joint not be pressed at all.

Reminds me of space shuttle Challenger catastrophe with the o ring failure.

Anyone else having problems with the larger (1" and up) Apollo fittings leaking.
They are manufactured by Elkhardt.
Thanks
Ron


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## Tommy plumber

Sounds like another faulty water piping system design. 

People have been trying to invent a waterpiping system for years and have had many failures. Not to mention all the different crimp tools that the poor hapless plumbing contractor has to keep purchasing.

I'm glad I don't do any commercial work. Just a simple turbotorch for me on residential repairs.


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## wyrickmech

Rotate your jaws 90 deg and press again. Most of the time this will take care of it. Vega and Nibco are the only brands we use over 1 in but I have used Apollo never had a problem.


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## Flyout95

We've had issues with elkhart crap in the past.


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## moonapprentice

Propress is hack.


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## Hillside

I'm going to repipe my house in galvy I think


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## Flyout95

moonapprentice said:


> Propress is hack.


Says old 'one step is a shortcut I use'


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## wyplumber

Hillside said:


> I'm going to repipe my house in galvy I think


Let me know when you want to start. 

My 3 bathroom house is all galvy and i'll trade you inch for inch my galvy for some new L copper. It should save you tons of time they are already cut to length. 

You may have to relocate a couple fixtures but i am sure you can make it work.


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## Hillside

wyplumber said:


> Let me know when you want to start. My 3 bathroom house is all galvy and i'll trade you inch for inch my galvy for some new L copper. It should save you tons of time they are already cut to length. You may have to relocate a couple fixtures but i am sure you can make it work.


But how old is it 60? I'm pulling out copper and repiping houses that are 7 years old, yes most is M but still it's bad


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## plumbdrum

Flyout95 said:


> Says old 'one step is a shortcut I use'



A very Yoda ish quote.


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## plumbdrum

moonapprentice said:


> Propress is hack.



When and if you get out of the residential world you will find that tool to be a necessity and in some cases a requirement.


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## moonapprentice

O-ring connection= hack..
and yes I've used nibco, and viega


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## moonapprentice

I know fitting companies say the oring will last over time. But you and I both know water eats through about anything. I could see it being okay if the water was treated and pH level wasn't highly acidic. (Remember, it's same seal as shark bite granite the oring is thicker) I've seen it used on not-potable water that is unteated. I wouldn't use propess in that application and would call that a hack install. That's what I was getting at by calling it "hack"


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## GREENPLUM

moonapprentice said:


> Propress is hack.


I hacked this together @ 11:30 pm - 3 am. Couldn't do that with anything else. You say it's hack but I was paid professional rates


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## Ron100

Elkhart gave us credit on pipe fittings and for aggravation.
Many times we can't crimp at a 90* angle a second time - space - which is supposedly the remedy per Rigid, Apollo, etc.

I don't think (Rigid) pro press is a hack as long as its used with their intended fittings - Veiga.

We've done several solar hydronic heating systems both soldering and pressing.


Soldering - 3 days.
Pro Press with Veiga and yellow o rings - 1 day.

Both jobs of equal scope.

Done several "hot" repairs ( turning off main valve / relieving pressure) at nursing homes that otherwise would require extensive water interruption.
Unions, jet sweat , bread (ha ha), and so on.
Same for fast food joints, businesses, high rises.

Thanks for the input.
Maryland


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## Ron100

Forgot to say 2 failures of Legend 1" ball valves.
Crimp cut thru the ( no lead) valve body itself.

I personally clean and inspect the jaw surfaces weekly and have yet to find 'build up' in the grooves.

It ain't our brand new Rigid R P 330 electric tool.
Or multiple licensed plumbers technique.

Now gonna send our Rigid tool and jaws to Rigid In Ohio to prove it.

Legend tech support said it was too much crimping force ??? and to "toggle" our tool to needed press force......

Rigid tech support said its ridiculous, there are no user settings......

We'll see where this goes.
Taking names.
We have had property damage now...........


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## mytxplumber

I am a propress fan. I have used them in places that have had a no flame requirement. I have also installed them on houses I own and other family members and people I know. The fittings are coming up on lasting 20 years under ground now. I don't buy many other brands mainly just Viega. As to propress being a hack they allow prepress on gas systems I don't see sharkbite for gas out there. I have also done 2" live to install a valve, try that with sharkbites. There is a time and place for most tools most cases depend on the operator knowledge and skill level. 
One of the only things I use sharkbites for are test kits to test a line for leaks. I do not install them in a house. I have seen to many failures with sharkbites. Most due probably to handyman error. As to something being a hack the hack is the installer the product is what it is. I just try to do what I would do in my own house and have my guys do the same thing.
One last thing a propress takes a tool that a plumber would buy made by Ridgid a tool company for plumbers. A sharkbite is a push on fitting usually associated with handymen. I know they love them. They do have there times and place. If you install them you live with them too.


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## czplumbing

never was a fan and never used it


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## Jeff Black

Solder that up in 3hrs. And that's only half the wash bay replumb job that runs at 300psi.


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## Tommy plumber

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## MDservices

Not trying to bump an old thread but I've been debating the xpress vs viega for a bit now.. the xpress is definitely cheaper... 

I have a sales rep trying to lean me on it, but I've been using Viega for a few months now and most of my jobs are 1.5" - 2" diameter and not once has there been a leak. Installed probably close to 1000+ fittings. I'm absolutely astonished. Mind you, I rarely had a leak on anything soldered either!

So now I'm wondering if I should change because at the end of the year, with all the jobs I'm doing, the extra $ I save using xpress might be 1000-2000$... It's not a huge amount, but it all adds up right? Apollo also offers 3% $ back... which is huge!

Thoughts?

Also, not to be a dick, but propress/viega/pressing etc doesn't make a plumber a hack... but the previous poster showed two photos of a hot water tank... what's up with all those 90's? That job might have taken half the time if you measured twice, cut once and made it nice, clean and straight! Very unappealing to the eye


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## GAN

Hillside said:


> But how old is it 60? I'm pulling out copper and repiping houses that are 7 years old, yes most is M but still it's bad


Check the origin of the copper. Good bet it is from Mexico. With the approval of NAFTA the purity level of copper went down and there is a higher percentage of iron in the copper. Now put softened water in the mix and the chlorine particulates tend to stick to the copper usually on horizontal sections along the bottom, never at fittings causing pitting from the inside out.

A town near me will only allow L or K copper inside or CPVC or PVC because of this. I have observed this also not to a greater extent but still happens never the less.


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## GMAR

Ron100 said:


> Our supplier has brought in Apollo pro press fittings.
> We use the Rigid tool.
> With Viega fittings, or Grinnell, we never once had leaks after crimping - specifically fittings 1" and over.
> 
> We have hade 4 failures at press joints using the Apollo press fittings with different operators to boot. 1", 1 1/2" and 2" .
> 
> Tool is nearly new.
> Pipes are cut square and deburred etc.
> 
> What's ridiculous is Apollo "notches" their o rings in 4 areas as preliminary leak path should the joint not be pressed at all.
> 
> Reminds me of space shuttle Challenger catastrophe with the o ring failure.
> 
> Anyone else having problems with the larger (1" and up) Apollo fittings leaking.
> They are manufactured by Elkhardt.
> Thanks
> Ron


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## GMAR

What was determined on your Aoollo press fit joint failures? I am seeing slitting on the crimp portion of the fitting end of 1" Apollo Press Ball Valves.


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## OpenSights

GMAR said:


> What was determined on your Aoollo press fit joint failures? I am seeing slitting on the crimp portion of the fitting end of 1" Apollo Press Ball Valves.











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