# Getting into jetting



## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

We are finally going off the deep end into jetting and camera work. Presented my case to the banker and he made me go whole hog or nothing, so here it is: 
18 GPM @ 4000 PSI 600 gallon tandem axle trailer jetter
4 GPM @ 4000 PSI cart jet for the drain cleaning trailer
4 GPM @ 4000 PSI toolbox jetter to mount on the vac truck
1/4"x150' hand carry hose reel with nozzle set
3/8"x200' dolly mounted hose reel with nozzle set
1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" Warthog nozzles
1/8"x50' trap hose
Mytana 200' Mainline Camera, color self leveling with touch screen monitor
Ridgid Scout locator
When I showed him my spreadsheet where I track the jobs I sub out he didn't like how much I was giving away. I was kind of planning to start with a cart and camera but he said I showed too much demand for the bigger equipment due to the large dairy industry and also the canal/pipeline farm irrigation system here so there we are.

Documents to be signed next Monday. Now I gotta get out and beat the bushes to get my name out.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

He wants you to get all of that?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Don't buy the 4gpm trailer jet, mytana camera or 1/4 warthog. Use that money and get a ridgid seesnake camera. You won't be dissapointed.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> He wants you to get all of that?


No. He wants him to pay interest on all of that. :whistling2:


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

gear junkie said:


> Don't buy the 4gpm trailer jet, mytana camera or 1/4 warthog. Use that money and get a ridgid seesnake camera. You won't be dissapointed.


No 4 GPM trailer, the 4 GPM is a cart _for _the drain cleaning trailer. In my research I have not found anyone who is dissatisfied with the Mytana camera either which is what I have to go with to get the (low) package deal on the equipment. I asked around these forums via PM's and got good testimonials on the Mytana camera. I would have loved to get a SeeSnake though, even with no experience I agree they do have some advantages.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

Will said:


> He wants you to get all of that?


It's a different deal really. It involves a lot bigger picture than this equipment alone and my equipment payments will actually drop from what they were.
Also, when I say "banker" I mean "private lender," and the financing he offered me is absolutely a chance of a lifetime, no two ways about it.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Watch out for those "opportunity of a lifetime" I had one in '84 and '08. The economy is unpredictable at this point.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> Watch out for those "opportunity of a lifetime" I had one in '84 and '08. The economy is unpredictable at this point.


No, this guy is a retired banker who is a good friend who has been interested in our business from the start and really wants us to succeed, so he says he wants to help us since he can. I wouldn't do this with a total stranger.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

SewerRat said:


> No 4 GPM trailer, the 4 GPM is a cart _for _the drain cleaning trailer. *In my research I have not found anyone who is dissatisfied with the Mytana camera either which is what I have to go with to get the (low) package deal on the equipment.* I asked around these forums via PM's and got good testimonials on the Mytana camera. I would have loved to get a SeeSnake though, even with no experience I agree they do have some advantages.


 
I used a Mytana double camera a few years ago. It was the large camera on a larger, outer reel and a smaller 1 1/2"-3" camera on an inner drum. The inner reel was wound so tightly and/or the pushrod was so flimsy that it kinked in the drum. The pushrod had kinks every 12" -16" all the way down, probably a dozen of them. The head still functioned but you couldn't push it in anything because of the kinks. Other than that, the big camera worked great.





Paul


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I want the best for you, but IMO, it would be a good idea to lay your plan out to plbgbiz ,or the likes, to give you some feedback before making a commitment of this size. No matter how good it looks, there has to be a solid business plan, and there are always risk. Get a qualified opinion from someone who knows this trade.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> I want the best for you, but IMO, it would be a good idea to lay your plan out to plbgbiz ,or the likes, to give you some feedback before making a commitment of this size. No matter how good it looks, there has to be a solid business plan, and there are always risk. Get a qualified opinion from someone who knows this trade.


I appreciate the concern. We have been working hard for almost two years to button down the hatches, reduce debt, and prepare our business for the long pull out of this slow economy that we expect to see. Therefore it is really hard to reverse our thinking and borrow money.

However, together with all of our financial team, including private advisors, our commercial banker, our accountant, and other industry professionals in our area, we have been doing our homework for over a year on when, how, and why to make this move. It is with 100% support from everyone involved that we are going this route.


I am not discrediting your advice, but our market involves trades and industries that not one person on this forum has any experience with or knowledge of, and which the financial advisory team we have put together does indeed understand. Here is a little of the basis on which we made the decision to proceed.
I was forced in the last 12 months to sub out or refer 41 jetting service calls. Of those calls 50% were in the ag irrigation and dairy industries and were either large pipes or very long runs (700-800') with no water supply that required a trailer or truck mounted jet with its own water on board. These calls were what we were involved in without ever advertising jetting as a service.
Like the saying goes,"You can't sell eggs out of an empty basket." By owning our own equipment we will be able to at least double if not triple the amount of jetting demand during our first year in the jetting business.
We have a very large dairy industry here that uses jetting services frequently, especially during the hard winter months. Winter is our slowest time of year and jetting will help to even out our cash flow.
We live in a very arid climate (7 inches of rain annually). Were it not for a very extensive canal system we would dry up and blow away. This system also provides flood control for the whole area during spring snow melt. Maintaining culverts, pipelines, etc. is another large part of our demand for jetting.
The jetter guy we have been using (jetting is his main business) secured a large maintenance contract during the last year that has him so busy that he is running behind. A couple weeks ago we gave him 4 jet jobs in one week and in every case he was 4 days out . He is only interested in industrial and ag so we sat down and told him our plan and made an agreement with him where he will be subcontracting all of his residential and restaurant jetting work to us. We have worked back and forth with him on the excavation and pumping side so we have a great working relationship with him. I didn't want to lose any excavation or pumping work by competing with him as a jetter, so we decided to lay the cards on the table ahead of time and see what he thought. He is so snowed under he was 100% in favor of our plan to get into jetting as well, as it gives him someone he trusts who he can refer to when he is too busy, rather than turning the work down.
Without offering or advertising jetting as a service, we have subbed or referred enough work ourselves to make this a profitable venture straight out of the gates with traditional financing, and with the private finance deal we got plus the extra work we will gain through word of mouth and advertising it pretty much takes most of the risk out of the equation.
Like I said, we have been trying so hard to get our business insulated from the unstable economy that it's tough for us to get adjusted to the idea of borrowing money. It's not that we're trying to be reckless, but we have families to feed and simply can't keep leaving this work on the table.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Well, why didn't you just say that to start with? :thumbsup:

Good info for all of us.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> Well, why didn't you just say that to start with? :thumbsup:
> 
> Good info for all of us.


No biggie, I didn't expect to get this deep when I opened this thread, but that's OK . I should have known, though, as it is quite a bit of equipment and was bound to create discussion. I don't really have anything to hide so we're all good.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

SewerRat said:


> We are finally going off the deep end into jetting and camera work. Presented my case to the banker and he made me go whole hog or nothing, so here it is:
> 18 GPM @ 4000 PSI 600 gallon tandem axle trailer jetter
> 4 GPM @ 4000 PSI cart jet for the drain cleaning trailer
> 4 GPM @ 4000 PSI toolbox jetter to mount on the vac truck
> ...


 
what are we talking here in dollars and cents? the amount I mean.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Gonna take a lot of peakin in the poopy lines to pay for this equipment


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

hey that is what buisness is all about ... taking risk and managing them


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

suzie said:


> what are we talking here in dollars and cents? the amount I mean.


Let's just put it this way, about 60% of if I had gone US Jetting and Ridgid all the way.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

What kind of trailer jetter?


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

gear junkie said:


> What kind of trailer jetter?


Jetters Northwest Eagle 600


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Not to doubt your choice of jetter as it's your money, but if you want to be able to clean a 700' line, why get a jetter with only 400' reel? From what I can gather in your earlier post, it seems the trailer jetter is the only essential monemaker you're missing. The camera isn't essential but it's nice. To replace the cart jetter, get a 4gpm pressure washer for under 500 and be done with it. Seeing a lot of extras you're getting and I've seen it's not what you make but what you spend. not trying to be out of line...just give a different point of view.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Just forgot to add....northwest doesn't give accurate specs on their jetters. Their bruiser jetter can not put out 5.5gpm with a 13hp engine...it would need to be 15 hp minimum. If they're off on the cart jetter, would their trailer jetter be any different?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SewerRat said:


> ...our market involves trades and industries that not one person on this forum has any experience with or knowledge of...


Yeah, you're probably right. We buy all of our milk from Idaho.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Yeah, you're probably right. We buy all of our milk from Idaho.


Well, put it this way: In southern Idaho a dairy with 300-400 cows is tiny, a dairy with 1000 cows is small, a dairy with 6500 cows is probably the most common, and a dairy with 10,000 cows is not uncommon. There are probably 30-40 dairies within a 15 mile radius of my house. That's a lot of $#!+ to plug corral and barn drains.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SewerRat said:


> Well, put it this way: In southern Idaho a dairy with 300-400 cows is tiny, a dairy with 1000 cows is small, a dairy with 6500 cows is probably the most common, and a dairy with 10,000 cows is not uncommon. There are probably 30-40 dairies within a 15 mile radius of my house. That's a lot of $#!+ to plug corral and barn drains.


I applaud you for growing you business and for doing it with advisors familiar with your situation. I also understand your OP was probably meant as a "look how cool this is" statement as opposed to a request for critique from internet associates you don't even know. That's pretty cool too. In business you have to toot your own horn on occasion.

OK...We get it. You have a lot of Holsteins for neighbors.

That said, I'm guessing there are PZ members that work in California, Wisconsin, New York, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Ohio, Vermont, Canada, and maybe even others in Idaho that found your statement _*"...our market involves trades and industries that not one person on this forum has any experience with or knowledge of..."*_ to be just plain silly.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

Very likely true. If I came across as arrogant in any way I apologize. I'm not above admitting the possibility of errors in my judgement. However, each area is different and, my wife being from Wisconsin, friends in Cali, and so on, I have observed that even within the dairy industry things are done drastically different in other places from what they are here. The farms and parlors are set up different, the way feed, manure, compost, bedding, and so forth is handled is different, and so forth. I didn't mean to say that there wasn't anyone that had any experience with _dairies, _just that our market has its own set of circumstances that have to be addressed.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Did you get your jetter in yet? Post some pics when you do. I'll be posting some pics soon of a 18gpm 4000psi beast that I will be getting soon too. 

Hint: It aint a US Jet unit.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

*Update*

Quick update on this old thread. We are very glad we went ahead and bought the equipment we bought. As of tonight we have done 27 jet jobs since we took delivery of the jetters on the 8th of May. The business has been split fairly evenly between the cart which goes on normal drain cleaning calls, the truck mounted jetter which is used whenever we have the pump truck on site for septic issues, and the trailer. The trailer is being used mainly for lines 8" to 15" and occasionally some 6" concrete irrigation lines with roots. We have also jetted a couple very sludged-up drainfields with the trailer. When we ordered the Eagle 600 trailer we upgraded to 500' of hose so for irrigation lines that have access at both ends (most do) we can jet 1000'. 

I think as far as ROI the little one we mounted in the toolbox on the pump truck will be the best dollar for dollar, since it's right there when we need it and we've jetted a number of lines after pumping backed up tanks that we previously would have tried to clear by ramming a garden hose down them, etc. because the people wouldn't have wanted us making a second trip out there with our drain cleaning equipment.

As far as the camera goes, it's hard to put a dollar figure on because while we have had some calls strictly for camera inspections, the majority of our camera work has been for our own verification of a problem. However, it adds credibility and has gotten us for sure one drainfield replacement, some jetting work, and some sewer replacement work so it appears to be a worthwhile investment as well. I think as time goes along we will learn how to use our equipment to compliment the other pieces and the camera will play an ever-increasing role in our business operations.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Are you getting any work from any of those *tiny* farms and food processing operations owned by JR Simplot? :laughing:


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## drs (Jun 17, 2011)

What good is a tool if you are not making money? I could give away free camera and jetting work all day BUT if you are using a tool to make life easy and not make money, then what good is the tool?

If indirectly you are making money from having a tool and using it for free, GOOD !

I've used my big jet to clean a line fast instead of a cable machine because of the emergencey nature and just charged for the cable. Even like that example, I as the owner always ask how is doing that making me money and paying me back?

JMHT


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

We have made a lot of money from "Free Camera" jobs....
A main line replacement covers a lot of free camera inspections....:whistling2:


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Redwood said:


> We have made a lot of money from "Free Camera" jobs....
> A main line replacement covers a lot of free camera inspections....:whistling2:


*Then you have my area of service*.:thumbdown: Feels like every month I have to re invent the wheel trying to survive.
Charge for the camera to try to make the extra money to show them the problem. Can't sell digs because someone will do it for almost free and beer. Or do a free camera in an area with no call volume in hopes of spending more time on the sewer and up selling jetting to people with no money who normaly decline the jetting due to the cost and now I lost the chance to charge for the camera!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Rod, Your area is somewhat of an enigma...

It has got to be one of the must unique areas of this country....

My ex-wife's aunt, uncle, and cousins were a few miles south of you probably just a little south of your territory but not by much...
Close to Ossipee and Effingham....

One of the cousins was getting married and we all went up there for the wedding weekend. It was a kind of roll in with an rv, camper, or tent and park on his property kind of affair...

A weekend of party, pig roast, party bbq kind of thing with the big wedding Sunday afternoon at a church out in the wood that didn't have electricity and the organ had a foot pump.....

Anyway long story getting to the end...
My ex-brother in law had an Opel GT and on the way up the exhaust busted off. The cousin just happened to have a junker Opel GT in the yard and they went an got the neighbor to swing by with his backhoe and roll the junker car onto it's side, and hold it, to make the exhaust system easier to remove.... :laughing:


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Are you getting any work from any of those *tiny* farms and food processing operations owned by JR Simplot? :laughing:


No, Red, Simplot doesn't have much for farms right in this area, here they sell seed and fertilizer and also buy a lot of beef for their feedlots. However, other farmers seem to be catching on that there is an alternative to digging up culverts to clean them out.



drs said:


> What good is a tool if you are not making money? I could give away free camera and jetting work all day BUT if you are using a tool to make life easy and not make money, then what good is the tool?
> 
> If indirectly you are making money from having a tool and using it for free, GOOD !
> 
> ...


DRS, not sure exactly what angle you are bringing this from, but I assume you are taking a shot at my previous statement about using the camera for our own research and curiosity. By all means in most cases we charge for camera work. Maybe I should have explained more, if you call me and ask for a camera inspection you're gonna pay full price. If I clean a drain or sewer and then we use the camera we charge a reduced price in combination with another service. Then there is the off time when we are on a larger job, like installing septics or sewers and we realize that we would be much more efficient it we could locate this line or see where plastic switches to clay or where do these lines wye together, we will use the cam and lump it into the job total. A few times on a contract type job we realize that the use of the camera could possibly save us a couple hours for whatever reason, by all means we will use it to be more efficient and not charge more for it, we just complete our job that much faster so we make the same money in less time, then on to the next job. 
I absolutely agree with you, we have definitely learned that in no case can you perform work for nothing. On the other hand, if any tool will make you more efficient you are simply cutting your own throat if you refuse to use it because you HAVE TO HAVE x amount of money to pull it out of the truck. What about that one extra service call you could have slipped in at the end of the day if you hadn't been so reluctant to use it? Tools have to make you money, but that doesn't always mean "I use this you pay this much." Depending on the situation at hand, sometimes with any equipment you have to move past the T&M mentality and realize that the use of technology will result in greater productivity, and greater productivity means more jobs completed, which means better cash flow, etc.

I would say that in two months to have sold a drainfield replacement, some jetting services, etc. through the use of the cam is already bringing pretty quick ROI. 

If you meant that we are giving away free jetting, then you totally misunderstood me. We have never jetted anything for less than full price with the exception of our very first job which was for a church. Again, what I should have said is that previously people wouldn't want us to come out for a second time to clear the sewer if it was still clogged after pumping the tank, but now that we have the jet on the truck we can explain the process and tell them we can take care of everything right here, right now, and a lot of the time we are adding a decent little sum to the pumping call without spending much extra time, whereas before we had a hard time being profitable if a) we used the customer's garden hose down the cleanout to clear the line and couldn't charge for it, or b) we had to go all the way back to the shop and send the drain cleaning truck back out to the same job the second time. We are now more efficient besides charging more.


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## drs (Jun 17, 2011)

We are on the same page.

My quote:"If indirectly you are making money from having a tool and using it for free, GOOD !" is what you are doing. We are on the same page.

I had employees YEARS ago who would use the jet and charge as a cable machine. I was paying the NOTE every month to make their life easy ? NO THEY lost the value of the tool by having it behind their van. Some guys did not even pull off a big cable machine for months and jetted the line and Charged as a Cable. Customers felt like they ripped off because I came back and cable the line and charge that price of a calbbe. I could explain till I was blue in the face of a 35 g machine and it's value of cleaning the line and it's operating costs and again it's value and that did not matter much to the client. They felt and saw the value of the machine at a cable price.

They did not find value in a Jet, so I did not find value in them be Employed by me.


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