# Ejector Pump Issue.....Thoughts?



## PlumberPete (Nov 14, 2009)

Here is my situation in a nutshell:

We were asked by a new customer (so I thought) to install a new ejector pump in his basement that supported a half bath located in a finished basement that was used by a single person daily.
He stated that the previous plumber rebuilt the existing pump about a year ago. The HO stated he was told it was a new pump until he had an issue and the old plumber needed to the pull the pump. At that time the HO discovered the pump was rebuilt. The customer stated that he paid way to much about the cost of the pump which he thought was new to begin with.
Needless to say, the pump failed again and we were called to replace it. He stated again what he thought was a fair price for a pump. I told him that we could accommodate that if we installed a Home Depot Rigid Pump. He was fine with that because we would warranty any issues not to mention the 3 Year Manufacturers Warranty.
Well, about 10 days goes by, I get the first of 3 call backs on the pump. The HO says the pump failed and the pit backed up. Don't worry no damage. We arrive, there was a small amount of water on the lid of the tank (which is in the floor). I no water seeping out of the lid. I unplug the pump from the float and plug the pump into the power directly. Pump kicks on and is pumping fine. So I reconnect float and begin to flush the toilet and run water in the sink. The pump kicks on and pumps as expected. Scratch head and say everything appears fine. I say maybe the water leaked out of the Fernco from the check valve. Which is bone dry by the way. I get a nut driver and tighten for good measure. The next two call backs are identical to the first. 
On Aug 29 I get the following email:
"
Pete,
Last night the pump let go and made quite a mess. I've got Servpro in here with fans and dehumidifiers and we're guessing the carpet pad has to be replaced. There may be furniture and wall damage too. In the meantime, I've put my homeowners insurance on notice and suggest you put your liability insurance on notice."

I replied back stating that it made no sense and asked to see pictures and would like to visit.

A month and a half goes by..I hear nothing. Assuming his HOI took care of it.

Finally the other day I receive this email:

"Kimberly,
Thank you for your patience. It doesn't rain, it pours. Terri and I were involved in an auto accident last month and our vehicle was totaled which got priority. Then, rather than have the carpet cleaned, we decided to go ahead and replace it. Here is our claim, but first a little history for subrogation purposes.
We purchased this house two years ago and for the first year the ejector pump servicing the downstairs half bathroom worked fine. About a year ago now it overflowed and Saviour Septic repaired it per the attached 10/12/11 invoice. That repair only lasted a few months. This past summer I was having other work done by Cardinal Plumbing & Heating and had them go ahead and replace the pump per the attached 7/20 invoice. It only worked sporadically. I had to call Cardinal back on 7/29, 8/5 and 8/23. There was no damage each time, only minor cleanup. Each time they seemed to get it working properly. Then on 8/29 we got the damage depicted in the attached photos. 
I immediately called Servpro and attached is their water extraction and disinfecting bill for $2,100.14. I also lost package of HEPA vacuum bags that cost $17.01 per the attached. Not included in the Servpro bill is the cost of replacing the pad, which they partially tore out, or cleaning the carpet. Attached is Servpro's $164.08 estimate for cleaning the carpet. Instead we went ahead and replaced the carpet. Attached is the $2000 bill for that, of which I'm told $300 is for the carpet pad. Therefore my total claim to AMICA is $2,581.23 less the deductible. 
I have contacted a third plumber to go ahead and upgrade the ejector pump so this won't happen again. Attached is their invoice, which I understand you do not cover, along with their findings vis-a-vis the problem with the failed pump. In a nutshell, the pump itself was defective and Cardinal couldn't figure that out in three tries. The old pump is secure in case you or Cardinal's carrier wants to inspect it. Nobody has permission to take it anywhere. By cc of this E-mail I'm letting Cardinal know I believe they're responsible for all the above listed damage as well as getting me my money back for the defective pump. Further, I made very clear to them before they did the work and after that Terri is battling leukemia, had a stem cell transplant in May, and as a result her immune system is severely compromised. The danger posed by overflowing waste water in the living area of the house was and is huge. At no point did I ever suggest I was trying to cut any corners or save a buck if it compromised her safety in any way. I explicitly told them that in view of my experience with Saviour, I wanted it done right. As a claims adjuster myself, I understand accidents happen, a defective pump was not knowingly purchased, but Cardinal's negligence in what subsequently happened here seems pretty clear to me and if you cannot subrogate and get my deductible, I will pursue it. I don't think this should end up costing us anything. "

What are your your thoughts? I have not had to use my Liability insurance and don't really believe I am to blame here. But, I do believe in making things right. Should I take this to court to clear my name? Up in the air on this and looking for some sound advice. 

Thanks guys.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Ur a professial plumber selling Home Depot products????


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## PlumberPete (Nov 14, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Ur a professial plumber selling Home Depot products????


I know, I know. I hardly use HD, but in the Market we service sometimes you do it to get the job. I hate doing it.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

CardinalPlumbing said:


> Here is my situation in a nutshell:
> 
> We were asked by a new customer (so I thought) to install a new ejector pump in his basement that supported a half bath located in a finished basement that was used by a single person daily.
> He stated that the previous plumber rebuilt the existing pump about a year ago. The HO stated he was told it was a new pump until he had an issue and the old plumber needed to the pull the pump. At that time the HO discovered the pump was rebuilt. The customer stated that he paid way to much about the cost of the pump which he thought was new to begin with.
> ...


Why on earth did you use a home depot pump?? They are junk and it bit you in the ass. I hope you learned your lesson. Next time use a zoeller 267. First of all I would never use a cheap home depot pump and I surely would never warranty one. You should've used a quality pump


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

First of all, we all know that we didn't make the pump and I would get the Home Depot and the pump manufactor on this and don't use their pump again..
And second of all I never or refuse to use the floating 'ball' type switch on any pump.. they tends to get hung up on anything the get flushed into the pit.


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## PlumberPete (Nov 14, 2009)

CardinalPlumbing said:


> Here is my situation in a nutshell:
> 
> We were asked by a new customer (so I thought) to install a new ejector pump in his basement that supported a half bath located in a finished basement that was used by a single person daily.
> He stated that the previous plumber rebuilt the existing pump about a year ago. The HO stated he was told it was a new pump until he had an issue and the old plumber needed to the pull the pump. At that time the HO discovered the pump was rebuilt. The customer stated that he paid way to much about the cost of the pump which he thought was new to begin with.
> ...


I forgot to mention. He sent pictures of the "failed" pump, but the disaster came from the check valve fittings that blew apart. Now if the pump failed the pit would over flow and not blow apart the fitting on the check valve. Not to mention he attached an invoice for new carpet purchased 2 days before the so called incident. The whole thing stating from the original pump worked on about a year ago seems odd. Especially because the guy is an insurance adjuster. Maybe I'm trying to be to optimistic.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> First of all, we all know that we didn't make the pump and I would get the Home Depot and the pump manufactor on this and don't use their pump again..
> And second of all I never or refuse to use the floating 'ball' type switch on any pump.. they tends to get hung up on anything the get flushed into the pit.


Roger that... Stay away from any pump with a mercury float... It probably had toilet paper piled on top of it.


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

I would never install anything from home depot or lowes either. Only goulds, liberty, zoller, or little giant. An I would lean towards goulds pumps first, sounds like you have a p.I.t.a. for a customer, sometimes its not worth fighting with on of those people. I would offer him $2k cash out of you pocket see if he takes it, better than involving your insurance co. You have. Deductible anyway probably around a grand. Beets th higher premium next year and the year after.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Not to rub it in but I pull Ridgid pumps out all the time. I use liberty and they are within $20 I believe. As far as the check valve, who installed it?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

CardinalPlumbing said:


> I forgot to mention. He sent pictures of the "failed" pump, but the disaster came from the check valve fittings that blew apart. Now if the pump failed the pit would over flow and not blow apart the fitting on the check valve. Not to mention he attached an invoice for new carpet purchased 2 days before the so called incident. The whole thing stating from the original pump worked on about a year ago seems odd. Especially because the guy is an insurance adjuster. Maybe I'm trying to be to optimistic.


 Now you're saying this... tell the 'customer' that u'll make a police report in case the customer trying to rip you off from this shemce(sp). Did that once and never heard from them again.


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## PlumberPete (Nov 14, 2009)

theplumbinator said:


> I would never install anything from home depot or lowes either. Only goulds, liberty, zoller, or little giant. An I would lean towards goulds pumps first, sounds like you have a p.I.t.a. for a customer, sometimes its not worth fighting with on of those people. I would offer him $2k cash out of you pocket see if he takes it, better than involving your insurance co. You have. Deductible anyway probably around a grand. Beets th higher premium next year and the year after.


PLTA? What's the acronym? Good advice


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

stecar said:


> Not to rub it in but I pull Ridgid pumps out all the time. I use liberty and they are within $20 I believe. As far as the check valve, who installed it?


Good point, a check valve that blew apart is not the same as a failed pump. Was the check valve replaced? It should've been if not.


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## PlumberPete (Nov 14, 2009)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> Good point, a check valve that blew apart is not the same as a failed pump. Was the check valve replaced? It should've been if not.


The check wasn't even a year old. I left it in place. It worked fine. It was a Zoeller


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

CardinalPlumbing said:


> The check wasn't even a year old. I left it in place. It worked fine. It was a Zoeller



I don't care if it was a week old, if I didn't install it it gets replaced. Now your paying for it.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I would try to settle outside of any insurance co.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Personally I would tell them to piss off...

They are acting like you dropped chemical waste in their basement...

That mess that hit the walls came out of them..

Nothing you did was wrong


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Personally I would tell them to piss off...
> 
> They are acting like you dropped chemical waste in their basement...
> 
> ...




It's not your fault the check failed. I have learned over the years to make sure all bases are covered. I would've written on the ticket " existing check valve was tested to ensure proper operation"


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I don't care if it was a week old, if I didn't install it it gets replaced. Now your paying for it.


So where you stop

You change all the plumbing inside the entire house ? Because you didn't install it ....

I would fight the nonsense and not roll over ... I would not respond


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Personally I would tell them to piss off...
> 
> They are acting like you dropped chemical waste in their basement...
> 
> ...




I would do whatever it takes within reason to make the customer happy. The last thing you need is this saga going on the Internet in the form of a bad review from the customer, that could cost you a whole lot more than 2 grand in lost potential customers.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Id roll it over to my insurance company.
Thats why I have insurance,.
You're insurance company will most likely go after the pump manufacture and or the check valve manufacture


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I would do whatever it takes within reason to make the customer happy. The last thing you need is this saga going on the Internet in the form of a bad review from the customer, that could cost you a whole lot more than 2 grand in lost potential customers.


I think it's past the point of buttering up the customer ...

And big deal about customer reviews ... They are one sided

I glad to see that you would fold on the first sign of pressure... I don't really think you run your own business ... You must be an employee


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> So where you stop
> 
> You change all the plumbing inside the entire house ? Because you didn't install it ....
> 
> I would fight the nonsense and not roll over ... I would not respond


No but if I'm gonna put a warranty on work I want to be confident there won't be a call back. It would've been a lot cheaper to replace the check valve than go through all this mess. 

And if it's something I'm working on like a toilet, I do a full rebuild even if just the flapper is bad. Because the customer will say I didn't fix the toilet properly when in 6 months the fillvalve needs replaced. Same with pumps, they always get new checks, water heaters always get new ball valves etc. it just makes sense to make sure the entire system is gonna last.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> No but if I'm gonna put a warranty on work I want to be confident there won't be a call back. It would've been a lot cheaper to replace the check valve than go through all this mess.
> 
> And if it's something I'm working on like a toilet, I do a full rebuild even if just the flapper is bad. Because the customer will say I didn't fix the toilet properly when in 6 months the fillvalve needs replaced. Same with pumps, they always get new checks, water heaters always get new ball valves etc. it just makes sense to make sure the entire system is gonna last.


There are plenty of times that a customer will not be willing to pay for things they "should do " and only want to do the absolute min to get there plumbing working.

If the later is the case it should be noted on your invoice what was recommended and declined by the customer.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> I think it's past the point of buttering up the customer ...
> 
> And big deal about customer reviews ... They are one sided
> 
> I glad to see that you would fold on the first sign of pressure... I don't really think you run your own business ... You must be an employee


I am an employee. But this is the way I would do business. This is the way we do business here, this is why we are the highest reviewed company in the area. Customer reviews are everything, and they are one sided, but unfortunately people find plumbers on the Internet. In the old days of phone books your way would work just fine, and I would do the same. But in today's world a negative review will cost you an ton of money.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Now you're saying this... tell the 'customer' that u'll make a police report in case the customer trying to rip you off from this shemce(sp). Did that once and never heard from them again.


I think I posted this before, but I too have had a check blow off. I now supply 2 extra hose clamps one above the check 1 below. I take 3 pieces of wire randomly placed around the discharge pipe bend a return on each end, bridge the check and tighten the clamps. It won't stop a leak but it sure as hell stops a check from blowing off.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> There are plenty of times that a customer will not be willing to pay for things they "should do " and only want to do the absolute min to got there plumbing working.
> 
> If the later is the case it should be noted on your invoice what was recommended and declined by the customer.


Roger that good buddy. 

"recommended new check valve, customer declined"

There goes any liability.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Maybe a stupid question, was the pit vented? Had one last week that wasnt. Customer complained of a smell in the basement, WELL DUHH. Anyway replace pump and tell them it needs to be vented. They dont want to open walls. Ok, 2 days later pump overflows. I go back and they have a cap on the vent. Long story short, we ran a vent out and no more call backs.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

First of all I think you made a mistake by replying to the first email. You should have called personally to put this to rest at the outset. High priority conversations should NEVER be had via text messaging and/or email. At this stage, a registered letter might be in order. No matter what, I would not make this an email conversation.

_*"Ms. Customer,

I am truly sorry for the mess you are having to deal with in your home. The clean up process can be a real hassle for families so hopefully your home will be back in order very soon.* *

Regarding our responsibility in this matter, you had a faulty pump and we replaced it with a model of your choosing based on the price of product you were willing to pay for. According on the specifications from the pump's manufacturer, it is sized properly for the circumstances in your home. While it is true that we returned to your home to check on supposed pump failures, on each visit the pump was working properly. On one occasion there was a small amount of water on the lid of your sump basin but that was likely an intermittent leak from the check valve that we did not install.* *

Based on your description of the conditions, the current damage was most likely caused by a catastrophic failure of the existing check valve, not the pump. But it matters not because whether it was the pump or the check valve. As you stated in your email this was a sporadic product failure. It is not my responsibility to be liable for someone else's manufactured mechanical device.* *

There was no "neglect" on our part. The simple fact of the matter is sometimes mechanical devices unpredictably fail and that failure can cause damage to homes. This is why you have homeowner's insurance. Any legitimate pursuit of subrogation on this matter will need to be addressed with the check valve manufacturer and/or the manufacturer of the pump.* *

Sincerely,* *
Cardinal Plumbing"*_


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

Let your Ins. co. handle it. They will work for your best interest. That is why you have them.....You do have Ins, right? Smells funny to me. No supply houses around where you are?


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> First of all I think you made a mistake by replying to the first email. You should have called personally to put this to rest at the outset. High priority conversations should NEVER be had via text messaging and/or email. At this stage, a registered letter might be in order. No matter what, I would not make this an email conversation.
> 
> _*"Ms. Customer,
> 
> ...


Well put. 

Can I hire you next time I need an attorney?:thumbup:


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

I know where I work code requires us to install a high water alarm inside the pit, if pump or float switch fails alarm annoys the crap out of customer they call us and we avoid a basement flood, but if checkvalve blows apart your pretty much beat the alarm will not sound, but if it was there you could argue that pump.did not fail and it was not your fault. Also I refrain from using swing checks with ferncos, always use the PVC type with compression unions, way less chance of failure. besides that ferncos are illegal to use here inside of a building.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

theplumbinator said:


> I know where I work code requires us to install a high water alarm inside the pit, if pump or float switch fails alarm annoys the crap out of customer they call us and we avoid a basement flood, but if checkvalve blows apart your pretty much beat the alarm will not sound, but if it was there you could argue that pump.did not fail and it was not your fault. Also I refrain from using swing checks with ferncos, always use the PVC type with compression unions, way less chance of failure. besides that ferncos are illegal to use here inside of a building.


 I've seen pvc compression checkvalve blown apart..


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> First of all I think you made a mistake by replying to the first email. You should have called personally to put this to rest at the outset. High priority conversations should NEVER be had via text messaging and/or email. At this stage, a registered letter might be in order. No matter what, I would not make this an email conversation.
> 
> "Ms. Customer,
> 
> ...


Nice way of telling the customer to piss off....

He should copy your letter and send it registered mail immediately...


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Dude watched you snug that fernco on that check, and decided he wanted new carpet.....:yes:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> Well put.
> 
> Can I hire you next time I need an attorney?:thumbup:


A plumber using a plumber for legal counsel has a fool for an attorney.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> A plumber using a plumber for legal counsel has a fool for an attorney.


Maybe your hidden talent is legal councel:thumbsup:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> I've seen pvc compression checkvalve blown apart..


He said less chance of failure not fail proof. Nothing we install is 100% fail proof. I would have written in my invoice replaced pump and discharge piping up to existing check valve. You didn't install the check, no liability there. I would contact your insurance company though. I've been in a similar situation where I knew something wasn't my fault. I contacted my insurance co and they told the guy to piss up a rope. When they request your insurance co, it's too late to do just about anything else. Just make sure you thoroughly explain yourself to the insurance co, so they know to fight for you.


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> I've seen pvc compression checkvalve blown apart..


I have seen them leak also but very rarely, the ones with ferncos ive seen leak often where the four bolts hold the two halves together with a weak thin rubber gasket. We can use no hubs or a solvent weld swing check but I would still have to install a union also by code between ball valve and check so pump can be serviced without cutting discharge pipe. Our codes are crazy strict in Jersey. Ferncos are illegal because they do not have a center stop. It sounds to me that this customer knows how to play the insurance fraud game and Is trying to have his basement re done at the plumbers expense, didn't he say in his e-mail that he is also an adjuster? I would demand to know who he hired to correct the catastrophic failure on the pump, give them a call an get the real story.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

These are the type I use. On sump pumps & sewage pumps.They don't slam shut, so less likely to blow apart, & the rubber sleeves are deep. Also made in USA


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> These are the type I use. On sump pumps & sewage pumps.They don't slam shut, so less likely to blow apart, & the rubber sleeves are deep. Also made in USA


How deep is the plastic that the rubber connects to? That's where I always find problems between rubber and check.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

These are great with the union on the bottom..


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> These are great with the union on the bottom..


 If the union is on the bottom, how do you drain the pipe out? I don't like that cuz when you replace the check valve, you gotta replace the shut off too? Just saying


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> If the union is on the bottom, how do you drain the pipe out? I don't like that cuz when you replace the check valve, you gotta replace the shut off too? Just saying


I drain it by poking my screwdriver up through the check with the ball valve open. And yes when the check is bad the entire assembly needs replaced


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

Wouldn't be bad If swing check was threaded into ball valve then it would be serviceable without changing ball valve.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

theplumbinator said:


> Wouldn't be bad If swing check was threaded into ball valve then it would be serviceable without changing ball valve.


That would be a better design. The ball valve is kinda pointless really. Maybe it should have double unions or just threaded like you said.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Don The Plumber said:


> These are the type I use. On sump pumps & sewage pumps.They don't slam shut, so less likely to blow apart, & the rubber sleeves are deep. Also made in USA


http://www.aymcdonald.com/en-US/Sump-and-sewage-check-valves.html








< For sewage








< For Sump Pumps 

What makes these different besides the obvious


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

http://www.aymcdonald.com/en-US/plumbling-supplies-new-products.html

look at A.Y Mcdonalds new products!!!

I cant wait!!!!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> How deep is the plastic that the rubber connects to? That's where I always find problems between rubber and check.


The plastic collar on the check, is exactly 1in deep, & the whole rubber sleeve is 3 1/4in deep. So that gives the pipe 2-1/4in insert depth. That rubber is pretty ridgid too. And I think the fact that it don't slam, you should never have a problem with these.
I can't tell you how many calls I've had on the Zoeller & Legend check valves splitting, & spraying water out of those cheap flimsy rubbers they provide. Plus the fact that the pipe inserts only about 1/2" into the rubber, on those 2 POS check valves.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I can tell you with 90% certainty that the flapper in the check broke away from its hinged part, and when the pump turned on the flapper went straight up and acted like a stopper. While the water can not pass the flapper and the pump is building up pressure, the Fernco starts to leak then blows off. The other 10% goes to customer tampering.

On PVC pipe you can add a no-hub adapter fitting to the PVC pipe for additional peace of mind. The lip on the fitting will prevent the tightened hose clamp from moving beyond the failure point. Sadly there is no lip on the check valves though. I always use a glue check valve with double unions for serviceability. If its copper discharge pipe then put a female adapter on the copper then glue a male to the PVC glue check valve. Galvanized pipe female adapters on the check valve and screw them to the galvanized pipe.


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## chuckscott (Oct 20, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> I can tell you with 90% certainty that the flapper in the check broke away from its hinged part, and when the pump turned on the flapper went straight up and acted like a stopper. While the water can not pass the flapper and the pump is building up pressure, the Fernco starts to leak then blows off. The other 10% goes to customer tampering.
> 
> On PVC pipe you can add a no-hub adapter fitting to the PVC pipe for additional peace of mind. The lip on the fitting will prevent the tightened hose clamp from moving beyond the failure point. Sadly there is no lip on the check valves though. I always use a glue check valve with double unions for serviceability. If its copper discharge pipe then put a female adapter on the copper then glue a male to the PVC glue check valve. Galvanized pipe female adapters on the check valve and screw them to the galvanized pipe.



I was scrolling through the replies thinking to myself, "unions and glue check" then I come across your answer. I have seen too many rubber couplings blown off or apart that making a solid connection makes sense.

Dang it, I am a day late and a dollar short.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Back in the day we use to use threaded brass swing checks and brass gate valves ... Never a problem


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Back in the day we use to use threaded brass swing checks and brass gate valves ... Never a problem


Still do in cases where PVC is not allowed, and in commercial installs.


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