# What do you look for in an apprentice?



## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

First off, I can respect that this is a "Professional Plumbers Only" message board and can understand if this post will be deleted or ignored.

There are a fair amount of dedicated apprentices peering on this message board. Trying to learn as much as they can to do the best job as they can. Everyday they go into work five, six, sometimes seven days a week. Between being yelled at for tools and being used as a scape-goat they try to learn as much as they can, in hopes that one day they too can play a role in building the city that they live in. 

It is difficult to find the time or the right person on the job site for constructive criticism to help better ourselves [apprentices] as employees and trades-people. Therefore, my question is, as a master plumber, supervisor or company owner; what do you consider good qualities for an apprentice to have? and how can they play a larger role as a helper to his/her Lic. Plumber?

Thanks guys for your time. Cheers.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Well, I'm not going to beat you up because you have asked a valid question. Personally, I look for honesty, integrity and loyalty. A little knowledge is good but if you are willing you can be taught. What I really want is no bullshit. No coming in late every other day. No whining about the work or the hours. Don't ask me for a loan or an advance on your pay. No dope smoking or drinking on the job either. I don't want to hear about your personal troubles, keep that stuff at home and deal with it yourself. Just show up on time, ready to work and I will find something for you to do. I don't beat on apprentices like some guys do. If I don't think you are working out, I'll let you know.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

First,
if you already signed up as an apprentice, welcome to the 'zone. You are welcome here. Don't be like helgore though.
I look for someone who can take orders, respects his journeymen (even when it's hard too) and doesn't talk to the customer, other than to explain that the J-man will be right back to help them. Face down, a** up helps alot, but always engage your brain and ask questions. Take ownership in you training, show up on time (10 mins before shift start), put in an honest days work. It will get you everything you need if you let it. On the flip side, good natured kidding is part of the process of weeding out the "sissies", grin and bear it, however, if it seems to be overboard speak up (in a nice way).


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Dude, learn as much as possible. I got the knowledge i got by requesting it. I knew the only way to get away from the shovel,(so to speak) was to learn as much as i could to do it on my own. Do more than the guy next to you. Thats how i stood out, and thats how they, the new guys stand out to me. Thats all the advise i can give you tonight. Good luck. You asking this question, puts you in a league of your own. Most young guys these days dont give a damn.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I like a guy (or gal, i suppose) that can learn by watching. Asking questions is good and they say there's no such thing as a stupid question but i've heard more than a few. I think I'm a tough plumber for an apprentice to work with because I'm not there to teach. The apprentice that is going to work well with me is able to pick up on what I do and anticipate. I won't tell you to do something more than a few times. After that, it's your responsibility to "get it". I hate complaining and laziness more than anything. I will never ask somebody to do something I am not willing to also do so I don't want to hear how hot the attic is or how stinky the sewage is, I'm right there with you. Don't talk plumbing with the customers either, I hate that.






paul


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Got a newbie with me now, good dude, known him for a while, great help too, and can play the drums like a mofo. Had the talk today about talking to the customer. There is only so much info an HO needs sometimes. Can't blame the guy for wanting to answer the HO, we now have a signal, if I flick my nose, that means, enough.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Got a newbie with me now, good dude, known him for a while, great help too, and can play the drums like a mofo. Had the talk today about talking to the customer. There is only so much info an HO needs sometimes. Can't blame the guy for wanting to answer the HO, we now have a signal, if I flick my nose, that means, enough.


Did you pick up a jouneyman or an apprentice rsp?


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## albplumber1975 (Jun 20, 2009)

I have a question for you guys (I am also an apprentice) Why no talking to the customer? It may sound like a weird question because I have been talking to customers for a long time now with out a problem. If I dont know the answer I usually just direct the customer to my journeyman..


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Enthusiasm, good attitude, willingness to learn. Ask questions. 

does he or she need the same question answered multiple times?

Does he or she ask "what's next?" or "can I try that?", or do they stand there leaning against the post staring out the window.

Does he or she care when they screw up, or do they shrug it off like it's no big deal?



You've GOT to seperate yourself from everyone else if you want to stay employed.


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## albplumber1975 (Jun 20, 2009)

What if someone has a real passion for learning the trade and does just that but seems to be clumsy with their hands or takes a little bit to develop on the job confidence??? Is that something that makes a bad apprentice???


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

waynewright34 said:


> I have a question for you guys (I am also an apprentice) Why no talking to the customer? It may sound like a weird question because I have been talking to customers for a long time now with out a problem. If I dont know the answer I usually just direct the customer to my journeyman..


I don't mind helpers shooting the breeze with the customer but when the customer asks specific plumbing questions, refer them to the plumber. He's there to solve the problem and they need to have confidence in him. If the guy he's training is answering the questions, it doesn't help. I've heard some real weird stuff come out of apprentice's mouths on technical plumbing questions. That leaves me to contradict the wrong information, which does more damage to the whole credibility thing. In the end, you don't know what you're talking about until I say so.:thumbsup:



waynewright34 said:


> What if someone has a real passion for learning the trade and does just that but seems to be clumsy with their hands or takes a little bit to develop on the job confidence??? Is that something that makes a bad apprentice???


A lot of this is on a case-by-case basis. If I can see something under the clumsy behavior then I'll keep trying. I'm not going to get on anyone for technical/mechanical stuff right away. The only thing that might get you canned on the first few days are attitude and work ethic. Those things are impossible (in my experience) to fix. Mechanics can be taught. To give you an idea, one of my best helpers had tourretts syndrome and would whoop and holler, twitch and wiggle but was a great worker.





paul


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

waynewright34 said:


> I have a question for you guys (I am also an apprentice) Why no talking to the customer? It may sound like a weird question because I have been talking to customers for a long time now with out a problem. If I dont know the answer I usually just direct the customer to my journeyman..


Its like this, I tell the HO something eariler in the day, or week before work starts, then we finish, and you, or the helper sees things in a differnt light then we do, and then you start to explain that to the HO, and then things get confusing for them. We dont need that, dont want that. Dont need the HO second guessing the origianl diagnosis.


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## cajunplumberjoe (Mar 26, 2009)

technique,skills,codes,laws can all be taught-attitude is the only thing that is totally up to the apprentice-we do not have the time to train your attitude for example-tardiness,excuses,poor work ethic,lack of passion for the trade, the its good enough attitude, hot headed. i could go on and on.my apprentices that made journeyman all had two things in common-great attitude and desire for knowledge.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Attitude and enthusiasm go a long way, and can make up for sub-par hand eye coordination. I know some guys who were born to plumb, in 6 months they were doing journey quality work. It didn't all come together for me until my 5th year. But I was on-time or early, didn't pick up early, worked Saturdays when needed, and made myself useful. Now, it's hard to remember the times I struggled, but I did. I have only once grabbed a tool out of an apprentice's hand, and apologized immediately. I talk to apprentices like men and expect adult behavior. Quality and quantity of work will improve with time. Attitude is usually permanent.


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## That One Guy (Sep 14, 2008)

markb said:


> First off, I can respect that this is a "Professional Plumbers Only" message board and can understand if this post will be deleted or ignored.
> 
> There are a fair amount of dedicated apprentices peering on this message board. Trying to learn as much as they can to do the best job as they can. Everyday they go into work five, six, sometimes seven days a week. Between being yelled at for tools and being used as a scape-goat they try to learn as much as they can, in hopes that one day they too can play a role in building the city that they live in.
> 
> ...


I look for "soft skills" meaning worth ethic, general tool knowledge, puntuality, and a person who understands that this is a carrier not a job.

I grew up in this business and really never knew what it was like to be a normal apprentice because I worked for my dad and that is a very different situation I think. Hes a ruff old school plumber who put me through hell lol and I think Ive heard just about every young plumber comment known to man from him :laughing: He had me soldering at 8 yrs old in the back of his pick up. 

I think its good to ask questions and I dont think there are any dumb questions, if you dont know ask rather than guess when it counts the most. Some guys might want to make you their tool ***** and not really teach you anything except where the shovels are located so I think it kinda goes both ways even though the plumber doesnt owe you anything. 

I guess the most important thing is to be serious about becoming a plumber.


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## cajunplumberjoe (Mar 26, 2009)

the apprentice should direct all questions from the h.o. to the journeyman on the job.period.we dont need you saying something that might open us up to liability.the best answer for the h.o. is im not sure lets ask the plumber-you arent one yet.no disrespect guys.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Back when I ran high rise work I wanted guys that could show up on time everyday, and I had projects where I went through guys in record time. I didn't ask anyone for breakneck performance, just to show up on time everyday and give me an attempt at an honest days work, when we started tower one of Museum Park I was handing out final paychecks on a weekly basis, I went through 70 plumbers and 6 apprentices on that building to keep a crew of thirty five.


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## cajunplumberjoe (Mar 26, 2009)

MARRKB-save all the above posts ,print them out and take them to school with you.i hope the other guys in your class are as eager to learn as you are as to what we expect. good luck-never quit learning!


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

waynewright34 said:


> What if someone has a real passion for learning the trade and does just that but seems to be clumsy with their hands or takes a little bit to develop on the job confidence??? Is that something that makes a bad apprentice???


 
I don't think so. 

I take someone that shows enthusiasm but doesn't have the skills yet over a know it all punk kid that can solder 1K joints/ hr any day.


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

I too grew up as a plumber's child. Seperating copper & brass at the age of 6. Being drug out on sewer services at 12 years old on Chrismas Eve. My father was a one-man-plan for years. My wants for an apprentice are completely different than my fathers. He wants an apprentice that is already trained, preferably his way. This means we both have to go through interview & I get them first. I have both my journeyman license and have a state plumbing inspectors license. I can not inspect at this time due to the fact I am plumbing. But...

Take the time to make it pretty. 

CLEAN: It feels like it takes you forever, but if you sweep up the floor, wipe off the counter, make the caulk job look pretty and let him/her inspect what you have done- they are more apt to pay NOW! with no complaints. Show that you care about their stuff as though it were yours. You will find yourself chasing your tail several times looking for rags or brooms. I keep a 2" wide softbrissel paintbrush in my bag just for sweeping up the mess and they are never too proud to donate 2 square of toilet paper to get what you can't get with your hands.

UNIFORM: I have seen other peoples work that my father would have been :furious: had he seen that to be my finished product. When putting in hangers, make them evenly spaced and make sure they do their job. If it is only going to take 5 more hangers to make it pretty and straight (plumb)... they will willingfully pay it. (They don't know your mandated minimum and it looks good to them) 

APPEARANCE: Don't come walking into any house looking like you are recovering from a 3 day drunk. Brush off the dirt from the job before, wash the mud off your boots, tuck in your shirt (personal preference), etc. Again, treat as though it is a career, not the place that is going to give you a paycheck on Friday. Those customers want you to look 1/2 way decent and SMILE!! You don't want the local restaurant sayin' ":furious: I am your server!! What do you want??" Instead... "Mrs. Jones, I am Chris with Pinto Plumbing (shake hand &  smile). What can I do for you today?" You have to let them know you are HAPPY to see them. Technically, they pay your check.

There are several things a journeyman/contractor must look for in an apprentice. Aside from the above, do they put tools back where they go? Do they show initiative to learn the trade? Do they ask questions? (Asking questions is good).

My personal preference on an apprentice... I want them as green as a shamrock. Then I don't have to correct... I have to explain. I would much rather explain and do, rather than correct, undo, fix and then do it the way it should have been done. If I do get an experience apprentice, they must be willing to understand there is more than one way to pluck a chicken.

WOW! I wrote a book, sorry.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

GREAT Responses ALL !!

On time , anticipate , work HARDER then your plumber , keep the truck and yourself clean , DON'T COMPLAIN !! Be nice , have respect for yourself and all others , put yourself in all things in the service of OTHERS !

Good Luck


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Wow, so many responses in such a short amount of time. Thanks for everyone who posted.


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## Charles Mitchel (Jul 26, 2009)

*Tools:*

TOOLS,oil them, wipe them off and return them where you found them.
There was a time when a tradesman was judged by his tool box. If it was junk he didn't take care about his tools that made him a living he sure as hell didn't care about the job.
I try to reward my people with a tool now and then. Give them a tool list.
But everyone point about before you open your mouth please engage your brain.
Any thing other than Good Morning to the customer is wrong. If the customer ask them a question the right answer is "i will tell the Journeyman you have a question."
If they screw up I never chew them out in front of customers or other trade men.It is alway one on one. And I always try to leave it on a high note. 
Always give them an atta boy, and let them know that one "Oh ****" wipes out three atta boys.
Oklahoma your point about cleaning up is a big point.
And to us try and teach them the trade and the business, because they will be our replacement's or competition.
Charlie


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## Miles Gone (Aug 13, 2009)

Thanks a ton y'all this very helpful to recap it seems as if cleanliness, work ethic, attitude, and willingness to be a student are the traits you all look for. I have a question related to this thread, how should one go about approaching a plumber for an apprenticeship? also would one need any certificates or prior training to qualify for the position?


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Go to every shop in the area, meet them, express your interest and wait.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

waynewright34 said:


> What if someone has a real passion for learning the trade and does just that but seems to be clumsy with their hands or takes a little bit to develop on the job confidence??? Is that something that makes a bad apprentice???


 Yes and no.
I worked for a shop as an apprentice on the north shore and loved it. It was prestigious, I could learn and have a future but I tried so hard I screwed up a lot(like soldering over a copper drum set with no drop) and after I finally didnt care and relaxed I made no mistakes. If someones worth it they just might blossom before they are fired. In my case , I quit and the boss said now I feel cheated.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*apprentices*

the main thing an apprentice needs to do ......

dont let your boss see the crack of your butt....

come in on time , clean shaven, 
clean dressed with a BELT ON.

THAT IS HALF THE BATTLE... be ause they are not going to let you do much more than watch and carry stuff for the first few months anyway.....

dont constantly ask for a cigarette break......

dont ask your boss what time your pay check will arrive on pay day.....It will be there ....dont pester them about it..

PLEASE ask questions, 
its a good sign you are not brain dead..

if your boss is annoyed about the questions then he has the problem.....not you...


when in the shop, make yourself busy in the morning, dont just stand there with your thumb in your ass.......dont stand around smokeing a cigarette when you chould be cleaning out the trucks..

WASH THE TRUCKS without having to be told to do it.....smoke while you are cleaning out or washing the trucks .

when they hand you materials to take out and put into the truck... dont just pitch them into the side door for your boss to put away for you later that day..,,,that always scores you high points when they have to finish the job they asked you to do that morning......

JUST PUT THEM AWAY into the drawers that they belong in.... 

was this helpful??

.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Extremely helpful. Employer/Employee relationships have become a little less tense recently due to some of the advice given. Thanks.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

When I look on desirable traits for new guys a few things come to mind but in no particular order.

-Honest
-Hardworking
-sense of humor
-Willingness to learn 
-Understand failure will happen but will always strive to improve.

And if nothing else, remember this "more people get fired because of incompatibilty than incompetance".


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Give me a person with an inate work ethic, a little grey matter between his ears, a some muscle (not as important as the first two) and I'll make a lean mean plumbing machine out of him/her. In a union environment where bad habits and attitude are epidemic this can be a real challenge. A 10% success rate is about all I can hope for.


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

Someone that is happy to be there and it shows in everything they do.
Someone that can think critically. Step by step is how we do things in plumbing, and if you can't guess what the next step is and be prepared for it, this might not be your field.
Someone that is proud of whatever they do, no matter how dopey it looks to others. NOTHING replaces an honest effort, even if that effort was a failure.
Someone that understands they are low on the pecking order and that it's not forever. Suck it up and don't complain about being a peon.
And most importantly... Someone that isn't married to their cell phone.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

I agree with almost every single post here. Everyone one of these are very important but I think if you were to look at each one of these individually they will all boil right down to _attitude _and _ethic_. If you don't bring both of these to work with you everyday, you might as well just stay home.


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## slowforthecones (Apr 20, 2009)

someone willing to do dirty jobs and get their hands dirty without a single complaint about it being dirty..iff you tihnk its dirty..this job ain't for u..get outta my face


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## Toolsmith (Apr 1, 2015)

Im in the same boat about being an apprentice who is eager to learn and improve but my clumsey hands and brain can barely facilitate that, some basic comcepts are there but it feels like the higher ups aren't always that keen on teaching an i know my education happens as the work schedule permits but to complain about my lack of knowledge or skills and refusing to explain something in the same breath isnt helping


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## Toolsmith (Apr 1, 2015)

But still willingness to learn,work hard, keep your complaining in line with the bosses, if your boss *****es about the heat then you can too, dont get snarky or be mr "know it all" apprentice but dont be afraid to have your own opinions on things either, and never stop learning(you never will stop) trust me you can learn alot on the zone, these old school vets can be a good source of info on basics when even your co-workers arent


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## Plumberdood1 (Apr 23, 2014)

Great work ethics and commitment.


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## Texan (Feb 21, 2015)

One thing missing from all these great posts... 

"Put the freakin phone down!" 

If your checking your instatwittergrambook you are not plumbing. Keep you head in the game.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Always buy the journeyman-in-charge lunch. Always.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Be so engaged, so hard working, and so valuable that the journeyman in charge wants to buy you lunch.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Texan said:


> "Put the freakin phone down!"


We let one go last year because his journeyman had to say that one too many times.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Lunch? Break? If the job ain't done it's not done!


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Free lunches were the worst*



OpenSights said:


> Lunch? Break? If the job ain't done it's not done!



yes lets stop the whole day at noon when we would be totally done with the job and on the road by 1.30... I love that mentality... lets all go somewhere and all sit down together and make cow-eyes at the girls that would not give any of us morons the time of day....:thumbup:..

This spring and summer most of the supply houses in our town will have cook-outs in the parking lot.... I use to HATE when the helpers and journeymen would hear about a free lunch to go to.... 

They would all pile into my truck and drive 30 miles across town if necessary just to get a half cooked hamburger or a brock-wurst and totally screw up the last half of the day They would stuff themsleves with free food and not be worth a damn the rest of the day....even had a few too sick to work the afternoon and had to go home:furious:

I put a stop to that practice.... I would rather buy them and bring the a free lunch from Wendys or mcdonalds... it maybe cost 30 bucks but it saved a lot of down time


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

I buy lunch for the apprentice I work with often. He works. He learns. He earns a lunch.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Yawl know that lunch is a federal requirement, right? Deny a man his lunch, go to jail.


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## Plumberdood1 (Apr 23, 2014)

I buy my guys lunch at least once a week.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Who has time for lunch? Not us


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

I like them green, willing to work and learn. As to not talking to customers the apprentice does not know what the journeyman is trying to sell or how he wants to repair the job. Only one person can drive that boat at a time. The wrong words can cost the company money in more than one way. Until you have been there a while try to not say to much to the customer about the job. Your journeyman you work with everyday will help you with this. Learn your trade and listen when you can.
Good Luck


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

Would look for a young Latino, American kids are spoiled and lazy, plus they think they know it all, they want to start their apprentice training in the middle, they don't believe in paying their dues


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## wharfrat (Nov 1, 2014)

When a new guy is riding with me it tells me a lot when he doesn't complain about us taking calls after 4. The guy with me now for almost 1 year has NEVER asked when we will be done or what time will we be home. Working late sucks for everybody, it is made even worse when the man next to you starts complaining about it.


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## NorCal (Jun 25, 2012)

I am a 42 year old apprentice, started off pretty green. To me, attitude or lack there of is probably the most important trait an apprentice can have. I listen, ask questions ( even stupid ones), stay busy, try to anticipate what step comes next, and most importantly I tend to have an upbeat attitude.

I was on a hospital job for over 2 years....at one point we had 70-80 guys on the job, maybe 15-20 apprentices. I wasn't the fastest, the smartest,or most experienced apprentice. But when the job whittled down, I was the only apprentice left. I showed up to work everyday, never showed up late, worked ot when asked, and got along with even the most callous of coworkers. I've been told my attitude and hunger to learn is my greatest traits.
Now I'm on another hospital job and gues what? I'm one of the last guys left. Now I kinda know what I'm doing and make suggestions based on my prior experiences. I try to get along with other trades, it just makes work more enjoyable.


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## tailpiece (Jan 3, 2015)

When i started out with the shop i am with now i was high school age, parents weren't able to give me the opportunity to go get my liscense or have a car to drive wich made it hard for me to get work. Gave the boss my word that i would be on time every day, walked over a half hour every morning to the shop to be 15 minutes early my first year, i like to think that's partially why i still have the job today, bossman took me under his wing taught me how to drive and brought me for my road test il never forget it


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

mytxplumber said:


> I like them green, willing to work and learn. As to not talking to customers the apprentice does not know what the journeyman is trying to sell or how he wants to repair the job. Only one person can drive that boat at a time. The wrong words can cost the company money in more than one way. Until you have been there a while try to not say to much to the customer about the job. Your journeyman you work with everyday will help you with this. Learn your trade and listen when you can.
> Good Luck


I had a apprentice that started running his mouth off to the h/o giving her our discount price and everything totally screwed that job up, :furious:


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