# the new whirlpool water heater



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dont know how many of you have seen the new version of this old pig yet..:laughing::laughing:. I had to go out and re-pipe the unit in for a customer this morning.... 

they have incorporated a honeywell--icon gas valve on the new unit... I do not know whether it is identicle to the ICON valve or not.... I actually like the valve better than what Bradford has on their product becasue the instructions are clearly on the unit... 
but I feel that this is going to turn into a service mans worst nightmare... 



they still have the same hi-limit switch,
it appears they are useing a larger piolit light tube than bradford does, 


the one thing that they have failed to change is the air intake underneath the unit,,, 
you can see it through the glass of this picture... 
I think the screen wrapped around the bottom of it is totally retarted...


well, have they improved the unit or not?? 
I dont think so, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while....


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I suppose the battery in those valves is supposed to outlast the tank? Made by honeywell im sure they'll be atleast decent gas valves. AO smith and state are using similar valves also now. I've put a few in now with no problems yet.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

pauliplumber said:


> I suppose the battery in those valves is supposed to outlast the tank? Made by honeywell im sure they'll be atleast decent gas valves. AO smith and state are using similar valves also now. I've put a few in now with no problems yet.


Paulie, There is no battery involved...

Rather than use a thermocouple for flame detection a Thermopile is used it provides a higher level output which provides the voltage necessary to run the gas valve.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I am just wondering if they did any research, and 
have installed this new design in a nasty , linty laundry room to see how it holds up compared to their other previous disasters.....

I still think that the plastic shank on this honey well valve will eventually
get brittle and cause damage when they finally break off due to expansion
and contraction...just like the plastic drains ahve done


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Does anyone know if gas controll valve can be taken out without water loss like bw.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

The Honeywell valve has been in use by American Water Heaters for several years now. Bradford white just started using it. From what I can see the only difference between the two is the Bradford one has a different PC board on it that allows for the add ons.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

A.O.Smith Water Heaters use the same valve.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

It was probably me but that stupid plastic wrap around at the bottom was ...well stupid...


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

How is that a service mans nightmare? If its not under warranty then you get to charge to make a repair, right? 

Learn how to fix them and the fear is gone. 

Seems to me to many of us are afraid to learn low voltage controls, and want to run from the challenge instead of facing it. 

How many plumbers can actually verify that a thermocouple is working properly? I watched a video a fellow plumber made on how to test a thermocouple, straight forward, simple, easy enough. I bet a small percentage of plumbers have the equipment to check one, and know how.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Indie said:


> How is that a service mans nightmare? If its not under warranty then you get to charge to make a repair, right?


 
Part of what makes it my nightmare is that while A.O. Smith and Bradford White both use the new Honeywell valves, they are not interchangeable inless you want to adapt the wiring to work. That means if I want to be able to service those two heaters I need 4 gas valves when in the past I only had to stock 2. I don't know how the ones on the American heaters compart to the other two so if they've made another slight change, that's 2 more valves to stock. Add in the new thermopiles (I think A.O. Smith and B/W are different) and it's a lot of part$ to stock. I don't see what they do better than the old style vavle, so I miss the point. Also, the last 2 Bradford White heaters I've delt with had faulty gas vavles.








Paul


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

easttexasplumb said:


> Does anyone know if gas controll valve can be taken out without water loss like bw.


The last BW that I replaced a gas valve on had that feature but the valve they sent did not so I still had to drain the heater to do the swap. The new one was all plastice, no brass shank.






Paul


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

rocksteady said:


> The last BW that I replaced a gas valve on had that feature but the valve they sent did not so I still had to drain the heater to do the swap. The new one was all plastice, no brass shank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why drain the water heater down? Use the ole quick switch technique. :yes:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Indie said:


> Why drain the water heater down? Use the ole quick switch technique. :yes:


I do the ole quick switch, would be nice to not have to worry about what if.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Indie said:


> Why drain the water heater down? Use the ole quick switch technique. :yes:


 
I will do that if I'm in a garage or outside closet but if it's in a hallway or finished area I prefer to drain the heater down. We don't have mechanical rooms/basements with floor drains near the water heater so I like to keep excess floor-water to a minimum.






Paul


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

rocksteady said:


> I will do that if I'm in a garage or outside closet but if it's in a hallway or finished area I prefer to drain the heater down. We don't have mechanical rooms/basements with floor drains near the water heater so I like to keep excess floor-water to a minimum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If your scared, say your scared :laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

rocksteady said:


> The last BW that I replaced a gas valve on had that feature but the valve they sent did not so I still had to drain the heater to do the swap. The new one was all plastice, no brass shank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I installed a State, and noticed that the nipple looked like some kind of composite.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I just installed an AO Smith with this type of gas valve yesterday. Easy Peasy Japaneezy.


The flashing red light is like a smoke detector. 



The GE I installed today? Had to be taken out, returned. Could NOT get it lit. 

Even the new one they supplied the customer with, cross arcing off the line serving the piezo ignitor. 


They need to fix that problem because it arcs off even with a jacket around the wire.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

The valve on the Honeywell should be the same as the one on the American seeing as they are the same company now. I am sure they are streamlining the parts on the heaters.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> I do the ole quick switch, would be nice to not have to worry about what if.





rocksteady said:


> I will do that if I'm in a garage or outside closet but if it's in a hallway or finished area I prefer to drain the heater down. We don't have mechanical rooms/basements with floor drains near the water heater so I like to keep excess floor-water to a minimum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





easttexasplumb said:


> If your scared, say your scared :laughing:


No guts, no glory fellas. :laughing:

I agree RS, if there is a potential for serious water damage it is much safer to drain it and not take chances. However, sometimes I just get a little crazy and walk the line between good sense and not so much. :w00t:

Its just water, and shop vacs are your best friend.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

When I change a gas valve without draining the water, I get no more than a cup of water out if that. Shut the valve off open a faucet on the hot side till it stops then close the faucet. change the valve.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I njever drain the heater to change out a gas valve or elements. I turn the valve, then drain the bib in a bucket, vacuum lock the unit and switch it out.

The Icon valve is a great product and clips on the front of the heater. Whirlpool still has the crappy design that does not let air into the firebox causing the pilot to go out. Still a crap heater in my mind. 

Changing just the valve does nothing to the quality of the heater.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> I njever drain the heater to change out a gas valve or elements. I turn the valve, then drain the bib in a bucket, vacuum lock the unit and switch it out.


 
I will swap gas valves this way in certain instances but I NEVER replace elements that way. I don't know how many times I've had the old, failed element blown completely apart and literaly take a full minute or more to get the element out. I like to give the heater a drain and a little flush if it's got worn out elements. Around here, it's probably fairly loaded up with lime scale at that point and could use the cleaning. 

Gas valves don't give me this problem and nobody is going to replace a gas valve on a 10 year old w/h so you don't have to worry about that. I'll swap elements on a 20 year old heater and flush it out at the same time.








Paul


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*how many thermopiles do you carry??????*

I have about 4 ...24 inch thermocouplings in my truck
and about 3 different gas valves for both the old style
heaters and 

I also got three full complete boxes for the new Bradford icon peices of crap

So how many *thermopile assemblies * does everyone carry in their trucks.
and are these thermopile assembiles interchangeable between State, Smith, whirlpool
and Bradford white???? What a joy..

once this Honeywell becomes a common place valve, I wonder if everyone will just change out the whole face plate control and the complete thermo-pile assembly and the high limit control??? 
*Or will you play the game of hunt for the small *
*glitch in the system at 7.pm friday vening??*


I am in no mood to attempt to figure out what the hell has gone wrong with an ICON valve... 
So far 100% of the time there is no blinking light tellimg me what is wrong, so it can be a number of things that could be causeing the problem...I can assume its the thermopile , but that is not necessarily the case either....


we have got three complete bad ones to take back and get 
credit for laying on our shelves....all three of them well under a year old....


wait about 10 years and I am willing to bet that the shanks 
will become a insurance companys nightmare when the plastic starts
 to become brittle and snaps off

.


*RHEEM has stayed simple *with the old gas valve and the *simple thermocoupling*.. no extra wires,, no extra bullcrap that I must diagnose to get it fired up....
I truely HOPE that Rheem keeps things simple stupid....


everyone better get good at fooling with this stuff 
cause I see a SUNAMI of thermopile repairs in my future


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

I am not 100% sure, But I do believe the Bradford White rep told me that it was a standard 750 MV thermopile. So it is no big deal to keep one on the truck. Testing one is as easy as testing a thermocouple. as long as you own a good meter your set. I do agree on the concern about those plastic wells breaking in the future though.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

easttexasplumb said:


> If your scared, say your scared :laughing:


 
I had an icon valve to replace this morning and for some strange reason I felt the need to make this video. 







 





Paul


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> I had an icon valve to replace this morning and for some strange reason I felt the need to make this video.
> 
> Paul


Calling off the dogs eh? :laughing:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Calling off the dogs eh? :laughing:


 
Maybe. 








Paul


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*thank you*

yes it is not hard to change it.. and I think it is probably best to change out the whole control including the well inside the heater....

 I finally made myself
put those heaters up on bricks so I would not have to fight the water heater pan....it seemed the only ones to give me fits were the units that I did not set higher..

did you figure out what was wrong with the valve 
or did you just change everythign and save yourself the greif


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

rocksteady said:


> Part of what makes it my nightmare is that while A.O. Smith and Bradford White both use the new Honeywell valves, they are not interchangeable inless you want to adapt the wiring to work. That means if I want to be able to service those two heaters I need 4 gas valves when in the past I only had to stock 2. I don't know how the ones on the American heaters compart to the other two so if they've made another slight change, that's 2 more valves to stock. Add in the new thermopiles (I think A.O. Smith and B/W are different) and it's a lot of part$ to stock. I don't see what they do better than the old style vavle, so I miss the point. Also, the last 2 Bradford White heaters I've delt with had faulty gas vavles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What were the simptoms of the two faulty gas valves you had?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Colgar said:


> What were the simptoms of the two faulty gas valves you had?


 
The first one was a 75 gallon and wouldn't light at all. I believe the code it flashed was seven flashes. It was about 16 months old. 

The second one was a 40 gallon. It was a thermostat/temp. well fault and would light the pilot but the main burner would not fire. The thermostat woudln't recognize cold water. The code was five flashes. This one was about 3 months old. 

Both were propane heaters.








Paul


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> did you figure out what was wrong with the valve
> or did you just change everythign and save yourself the greif


 
I changed the valve and thermopile on the first one and just changed the valve on the one I did yesterday.






Paul


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Guess what brand this one is????*

Another good brand of water heaters has crawled up
its own ass and died ......

I pissed off the guys at the supply house today when
I turned over this water heater on display to look
unerneath to see how it was designed..... 
it is supposed to be their *NEW STYLE DESIGN.*

It is *NOT a WHIRPOOL* but it has the same exact burner 
assembly inside the unit , the same exact air intake screen underneath
it just like the Whirlpool... and the same lint screen around the bottom


Im my opinion this good name brand has now turned into* dog crap*
and it used to have the best FVIR design on the market

Any one care to guess what brand has gone to hell ......
and win a cookie???:yes:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> I am just wondering if they did any research, and
> have installed this new design in a nasty , linty laundry room to see how it holds up compared to their other previous disasters.....
> 
> I still think that the plastic shank on this honey well valve will eventually
> ...


I have already seen a few leak. Some brand new. They were Bradford. Luckily, Bradford covered everything.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*nope*



Protech said:


> I have already seen a few leak. Some brand new. They were Bradford. Luckily, Bradford covered everything.


 
no, that is not a bradford white laying on its side....

sorry no cookie for you:no:.


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## sheeptown44 (Oct 31, 2010)

a o smith


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*nope*

that is the smith sesign, but it has 
been out for quite some time...

this is not a A.O.Smith

sorry .... no cookie for you:no:


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## brass plumbing (Jul 30, 2008)

I am really surprised to read about whirlpool tanks from professionals. the box stores sell that junk. ge and whirlpool have too many recalls & glitches.
contractor wholesales have ugh ao smith, american pro-line, bradford-white, ugh state, lochinvar.


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## sheeptown44 (Oct 31, 2010)

lockinvar.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

S.o.smith


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Sorry
A.o.
Mobile is messed up


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I dislike the new valves. The guy at the counter made a big deal about it not being plastic but a space age polymer. I let the guy know some a-hole keeps wrapping the space age polymer with plastic. 

I end up taking every gas valve out of leaking water heaters now days just in case.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*you won a cookie*



sheeptown44 said:


> lockinvar.


Yes, that is the new *Lochinvar design...*

they used to have the excellent Bradford white design.... 

but they got bought out by Smith and looks like Smith has 
gutted the heater and made it exactly similar to their whirlpoop design...


I honestly thought when Smith bought out Lochinvar they were
 gonna changeover all their lines over to the trouble free design 
that LOCHINVAR has had on the market since 2003

nope, I was wrong...




you win a cookie... 
now go out into the kitchen and get yourself one


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> no, that is not a bradford white laying on its side....
> 
> sorry no cookie for you:no:.


I was talking about the plastic valves.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*no problem*



Protech said:


> I was talking about the plastic valves.


Hey, I had thrown up that picture.....and changed the subject....

its ok.... go ahead and get your self a cookie....:yes:


All I am saying is thatthis is the end of another good line of water heaters.

LOCHINVAR is done....

they are all heading towards the honeywell --ICON valve
installed into a defective Whirlpool design of water heater....


this is the absolute worst of two worlds ....
a plastic shank on the honeywell valve that will probably get brittle 
in a few years and start leaking....
and no decent way for the heater go get air fed to it......


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