# water heaters leaking frequently



## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

I have a client/contractor who has had two hot water heaters installed on an income property, I have not been there its 3 hours from me. Both have leaked from the bottom within a year of install. Anyone ever experienced this? 


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

We have a customer who’s heater old heater (about 15 years old) failed six years ago. My Master replaced it. Three years ago the new tank failed. Shrugged it off as a bad tank. Late summer early fall the new,new one sprung a leak.

HO is on a well, but is on a sediment filter, whole house filter, iron curtain and a softener. We had the water tested... perfectly fine.

Bad luck I guess.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

2 things that come to mind. The heater may have been bumped and the glass cracked. Or big box heater are single glass coated. Supply house are double coated.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Horrible luck. Pressure issues?

There's no telling what that tank has been through when you receive it. Cracked glass corrosive water or both.

What brand are they? I wouldn't be shocked to find one of those cheapie plastic drain fittings leaking at the threads, because we all know what happens when plastic threads get warm.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

I had a couple John Woods that leaked out of the box.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> 2 things that come to mind. The heater may have been bumped and the glass cracked. Or big box heater are single glass coated. Supply house are double coated.



I like your optimism but damn near every single one of the tanks we get is not glass lined. Yes there are a few brands of glass lined heaters but that is almost exclusively indirect or oil-fired heaters. They are big money, usually double.



From what I have seen, if you want a standard 60 gallon 220v electric it doesn't matter which brand you buy, rheem, state, ge, kenmore, bradford-white, they are all the same 10 year average garbage and that is with the anode rod. If you take off the jacket they all look damn near identical, almost certainly made in the same factory. Even the "stainless" ones are lucky to last 15 years. I met this one home owner, had a stainless water heater for 30 years until the element threads corroded. He bought another of the same brand/model in "stainless", lasted 11 years, just over the 10 year warranty. They are all a crock, planned obsolescence. 



The only good ones I see anymore are the glass lined everhots or the stone/cement lined sepcos. Both are expensive.



One of these days I will have my own genuine stainless water heater made. The element holes are just a 1" nps thread. Get the whole thing spray foamed 6" thick 




.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)




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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> I like your optimism but damn near every single one of the tanks we get is not glass lined. Yes there are a few brands of glass lined heaters but that is almost exclusively indirect or oil-fired heaters. They are big money, usually double.
> 
> .



Ah...you didn't mention Giant, it's whats sold here mostly, Canadian made. My supplier said single lined in stores and they sell double lined. They even have a third option.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> https://youtu.be/eXRM3lFRwRI



I love it! Been a minute since I seen that movie.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

The old galvanized tanks with wraparound elements lasted 30 years.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

mtfallsmikey said:


> The old galvanized tanks with wraparound elements lasted 30 years.



everything in this country is built to fail on a defined time line so you keep buying and the companies keep making money....you name it and it wont last as long as something built 50 or 60 years ago once companies figured out how to screw the consumer...


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> everything in this country is built to fail on a defined time line so you keep buying and the companies keep making money....you name it and it wont last as long as something built 50 or 60 years ago once companies figured out how to screw the consumer...


Absolutely! I tell this to my customers daily!


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## ECH (Jul 27, 2018)

Are they on a well, or city? Pressure in the home? Expansion tank waterlogged?


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

mtfallsmikey said:


> The old galvanized tanks with wraparound elements lasted 30 years.





And you could insert a plug if they leaked!


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> I have a client/contractor who has had two hot water heaters installed on an income property, I have not been there its 3 hours from me. Both have leaked from the bottom within a year of install. Anyone ever experienced this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



For the most part, they all leak from the bottom, even the ones that are leaking from the top.:wink:
I have found that the Pro-Flow (Ferguson) dielectric unions leak either at installation or a short time later and of course, make it seem as if the new tank is bad. I will never buy another one even though I buy the Bradford White heaters from Ferguson.


Check the dielectrics and all the tappings before blaming the tank for the leak. Dielectric unions are not only unnecessary, they are useless and contribute to everything that they are supposed to prevent. If you must allow for galvanic action a brass union, brass valve or brass nipple is a better transition fitting. Unfortunately, todays's inspectors expect to see a DE union on all heaters.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

update he had replaced another and it failed After 1 day!!!!! This is 4 in one year. 


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## ECH (Jul 27, 2018)

Expansion tank? Pressure in home? Something is going on that is not heater related. Who is installing these heaters?


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

ECH said:


> Expansion tank? Pressure in home? Something is going on that is not heater related. Who is installing these heaters?




the landscape contractor I know had a plumber down south. Id go to look but its 3.5 hrs south. 


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## ECH (Jul 27, 2018)

Hard to help "you" (this guy and his heaters) out (the reason for the thread) without having more info.......

Ask the guy some questions and figure out whats going on.......


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

I have run into this a few times as a MFG'S service agent,
after a couple of times the mfg would pay us to put in a different MFG 
water heater that way they got out from under the warranty,
most times that solved the problem,why have no ideal :biggrin:


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

http://www.htproducts.com/phoenixwaterheater.html

go with a better built product, 316 SS tank.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> I have a client/contractor who has had two hot water heaters installed on an income property, I have not been there its 3 hours from me. Both have leaked from the bottom within a year of install. Anyone ever experienced this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We have had these issues quite a lot in our area...

They have made the tanks cheaper for one thing.... 
but a few of them have been mysteries to us....

In the mid 90s we tangled with one especially nasty
We changed out an 50 electric 5 times over 10 years in one house ,,, installed a prv valve and thermal tank... grounded the heater better, installed flexible lines to the heater, and did everything possible to quell this 
problem... 

dialectics did not help...
kicking down the pressure to 65 did not help
thermal expansion tank did not help
setting the heater up on wood blocks in the basement did nothing

finally we unhooked the grounding to the heater and that seemed to help........ 

We think it was resolved but the owner died off and we have not been back in 7 years now....

their is a rare issue with current jumping from house to house through the grounding rods for the breaker boxes and I finally came to the conclusion that this was most likely the issue of what was going on.... 

The owner got an electrician out there to this 70 year old house and had the place re-wired and up graded and everything seemed to go away...
so there was probably some kind of power issue jumping either from one house to another or some kind of neutral ground hooked up wrong in the home....

Of course we were blamed for this problem because the original heater we took out back in 97 had been there for 20 years and now somehow we had done something to queer his system to make the new ones fail every few years..... 

We bent over backwards for him and I am sort of glad the fellow passed away


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

justme said:


> http://www.htproducts.com/phoenixwaterheater.html
> 
> go with a better built product, 316 SS tank.


The problem with better water heaters is that a lot of insurance companies around here demand you to replace it every 10 years. They are clueless if you drain it every year or you buy a double lined or other high quality tank. Not very smart!


A little side story:

I had a real displeasure when their inspector took a tour of my house and I gave hell to the insurance when I barraged them with crap to let them know the guy never worked construction or any trade and was arguing with me for my oil tank, water heater, railings etc.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

justme said:


> http://www.htproducts.com/phoenixwaterheater.html
> 
> go with a better built product, 316 SS tank.




You know it is a great idea but too expensive for the common people you run into..... 

that is a lot of beer money and smokes just being pissed down the drain just to buy a good long lasting heater 
and we might be moving out of here in 5 years from now......

dont forget doughnuts and pastries that money could buy......

in my area that heater is gonna be a slow mover.....


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

alson said:


> Check the dielectrics and all the tappings before blaming the tank for the leak. Dielectric unions are not only unnecessary, they are useless and contribute to everything that they are supposed to prevent. If you must allow for galvanic action a brass union, brass valve or brass nipple is a better transition fitting. Unfortunately, todays's inspectors expect to see a DE union on all heaters.


That's looking to change in Illinois. If JACAR approves the new plumbing code. Galvanized will be removed as an approved material. A big woo hoo, those things cause problems.


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## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

My company does all the RCWiley installs for Utah. Ever since the July 1st plumbing laws came into effect, the whole state now requires Ultra Low Nox water heaters. RCWiley makes us put in R.h.e.e.m.

About 1 in 3 of the RH Heaters we as a company put in, have some form of defect. Whether the gas valve is all messed up, or -- more commonly -- the tank leaks.

Spoke with the RH rep about it, he just shrugged it off and said:

_"yeah, we're working it out."_

lain: _riiiiiiiiiiiiight.._


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Nazareth said:


> My company does all the RCWiley installs for Utah. Ever since the July 1st plumbing laws came into effect, the whole state now requires Ultra Low Nox water heaters. RCWiley makes us put in R.h.e.e.m.
> 
> About 1 in 3 of the RH Heaters we as a company put in, have some form of defect. Whether the gas valve is all messed up, or -- more commonly -- the tank leaks.
> 
> ...


Out the last 6 AO Smith ultra low nox commercial heaters we put in 3 have had defects that kept them from firing up the first time from gas valve,thermostats bad and blower motors not working. I have started trying to push the Phoenix heaters but can only do so much because I have to submit them and get them approved first.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

justme said:


> Nazareth said:
> 
> 
> > My company does all the RCWiley installs for Utah. Ever since the July 1st plumbing laws came into effect, the whole state now requires Ultra Low Nox water heaters. RCWiley makes us put in R.h.e.e.m.
> ...


I had a store that went through a Phoenix every 2.5 years like clockwork. 

I hope they work better for you.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Toli said:


> I had a store that went through a Phoenix every 2.5 years like clockwork.
> 
> I hope they work better for you.


What was the issue and which model Phoenix ?


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

justme said:


> What was the issue and which model Phoenix ?




They were the 80 gallon, 199K model. I don’t remember the exact model number. 

They leaked in the combustion chamber or somewhere above it. The end result is water in the burner and blower. 

If I remember correctly, the last one leaked on the exhaust side, eventually corroding it closed to the point it wouldn’t fire unless I disconnected the exhaust and pulled air through it with a shop vac.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Toli said:


> They were the 80 gallon, 199K model. I don’t remember the exact model number.
> 
> They leaked in the combustion chamber or somewhere above it. The end result is water in the burner and blower.
> 
> If I remember correctly, the last one leaked on the exhaust side, eventually corroding it closed to the point it wouldn’t fire unless I disconnected the exhaust and pulled air through it with a shop vac.


Did Phoenix stand behind the tanks and honor the warranty?


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

justme said:


> What was the issue and which model Phoenix ?




Thinking about it, I might have some parts for these that I’ll give you if you want. I’d have to get you the exact part #’s so you know what you’re getting. Let me know.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

justme said:


> Did Phoenix stand behind the tanks and honor the warranty?




I don’t know. These were leased from a company in Wisconsin. When the heater died, they’d bring a new one and we’d install it.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

GAN said:


> That's looking to change in Illinois. If JACAR approves the new plumbing code. Galvanized will be removed as an approved material. A big woo hoo, those things cause problems.




good. can you write pritzer and a few state reps out of the code too?


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

the tanks are leaking into the burner section in the bottom. 


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> good. can you write pritzer and a few state reps out of the code too?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sure wish I could. We have no power over the "Country" of Chicago. Trying to whittle away at it though.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

it was condensation. he swore up and down the room its in was warm. Turns out it was a porch that was enclosed. wrapped it in a blanket and put a smitty pan under it. what a joke 5 swap outs! glad i didnt have to do any of them 


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