# call back rates



## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

What are you guys seeing as a call back rate based on a percentage of the calls?


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## Turd Chaser (Dec 1, 2011)

0% or why even go to work


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

that's fantastic, in 30 years I have never met a tech that never had a callback. god bless


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

What type of call back? Product failure or installation failure?


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

johnh said:


> What are you guys seeing as a call back rate based on a percentage of the calls?


That's a interesting question. I've never tracked it as a percentage. I get a few, I believe mainly from poor communication. Then there is the little ole lady that calls back when their is no problem at all. I seriously believe they do it to get their monies' worth.

Callbacks always seem to run in packs. I never get one, I always get a couple at the same time. Just enough to screw up the schedule. One of our guys, who is my best friend and has been plumbing for about 17 years. Had a bad month with Mansfield toilets. I believe he installed 4 that month and everyone of them leaked at the rear tank bolt. He is on toiliet duty now. I give him everyone I can.

I'd say most of our callbacks come from the guys trying to repair faucets and shower valves that should be replaced. It's generally because they feel sorry for the HO or they are in a hurry and those will bite you everytime.

Don't get me wrong, We don't ask them to up-sale everything. However there is a big diffrence in reliabily if you replace the stems on a 30 year old 3 handle Sayco shower valve as opposed to throwing bib washers in it.

I'd say over all the quality of our work is pretty good, sometimes we make poor decisions.:laughing: 

My wife will appreciate your question, now she will have to build me a new spreadsheet.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

I haven't had one in a long time. Then last week I installed a A.O.Smith heater and I went back every two days for something on that heater. Ldt one was the water was too hot. Normally il check the thermostats and of course I didn't on this one. Opened it up and it was set at 160 degrees. It was set like that from factory, these people don't have the smarts to turn it up. But when your the bug... You the bug!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

More than 1% isnt good. But it should be built into the pricing...


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks for the comments. I've always figured 1 to 2 percent and anything more is indicating some kind of problem. I am curious what other companies with employees are seeing. I think most call backs are caused by rushing through a job or trying to repair something that should be replaced. A call back is something I have a difficult time understanding because if a repair is made and checked out, a call back should not happen or seldom happen. Component failure can get us at times though. 

I recently let a tech go due to call backs. He was with me ten years and his call backs were getting more and more frequent.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

PlungerJockey said:


> I'd say most of our callbacks come from the guys trying to repair faucets and shower valves that should be replaced. It's generally because they feel sorry for the HO or they are in a hurry and those will bite you everytime.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, We don't ask them to up-sale everything. However there is a big diffrence in reliabily if you replace the stems on a 30 year old 3 handle Sayco shower valve as opposed to throwing bib washers in it.


Easy way to remedy that. There is no warranty on faucet repair. How can you control what gets into the faucet from the water supply, or the homeowner that cranks on a 3 handle, because of habit? If it aint dripping when you leave, your responsibility ceases.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

johnh said:


> Thanks for the comments. I've always figured 1 to 2 percent and anything more is indicating some kind of problem. I am curious what other companies with employees are seeing. I think most call backs are caused by rushing through a job or trying to repair something that should be replaced. A call back is something I have a difficult time understanding because if a repair is made and checked out, a call back should not happen or seldom happen. Component failure can get us at times though.
> 
> I recently let a tech go due to call backs. He was with me ten years and his call backs were getting more and more frequent.


Call backs are a product of simply rushing threw a job. We had a discussion on here the other day about how many calls you should make in a day that topic and this one go hand in hand. Rush something you make mistakes, that is a direct connection to a call back rate if the rate goes up you better look at the work load of each truck first.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Easy way to remedy that. There is no warranty on faucet repair. How can you control what gets into the faucet from the water supply, or the homeowner that cranks on a 3 handle, because of habit? If it aint dripping when you leave, your responsibility ceases.


Your exactly right. We have used the no warranty clause on faucet repairs, but I don't like doing any work I can't stand behind. It sounds good in practice, but then word gets around.

For example.

If you make 3 trips out to Joe Homeowners to repair a faucet because he cannot stop grinding the washers into the seats and charge him for each visit. We all know its his fault, he should have replaced it the first trip, but that's not what he is going to tell all his buddies.

I don't have any problem repairing faucets that take repairs well and warranting the work. Putting washers in old wore out 3 handles and rebuilding single lever Valley shower valves with Danco parts equal callbacks. I want our guys to replace them and be done with it.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Most work we perform comes with a 1 Yr Workmanship Warranty. However, certain services and repairs do not.

I have had calls where the customer thought we did something wrong and it turned out we didn't. It would be some other problem with something else. For example: About 6 months ago, we installed a disposal for a customer, who called us back 2 weeks ago. This guy was upset and said we installed the disposal wrong. So, we went over to take a look. I told him that I see he has had a dishwasher installed since our last visit, and asked him who installed it. He told me [email protected]$ installed the DW. I told him they forgot to remove the knock out plug before they connected the discharge and that was his problem. I kindly told him that was [email protected]$' screw up and not mine. He apologized and insisted that I take a check for $100 for my time. 


As far as getting a 'call back' due to us not doing something correctly from the start, is rare. But it has happened and I'm sure it will down the road. No matter how experienced you are or how well you go over your work, checking things out - You're human.

Mistakes *will* be made. In our line of work, that amounts to a discrepancy which usually results in a call back. Obviously you still want to do everything you can do prevent call backs.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I've maintained a callback rate at less than 1% as long as I can remember...
All of our work is guaranteed including new installs, repairs, and drain cleaning....


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Do you think anyone here is going to admit having over 1 a week average? Some lurkers are running away from this post.


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

real life.. call backs in so fl. are about 2 of every 10 calls on non rushed calls. ( I keep track).. i'm not speaking for the rest of the contrry.. but if handle right, it can be your best friend. for furture work. I find it best to try to explain it to them like a 4 year old.


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## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

piper1 said:


> real life.. call backs in so fl. are about 2 of every 10 calls on non rushed calls. ( I keep track).. i'm not speaking for the rest of the contrry.. but if handle right, it can be your best friend. for furture work. I find it best to try to explain it to them like a 4 year old.



Not trying to start anything but i would like to point out that misspelled words are automatically underlined in red, and we are all professionals here. Professionals are expected to always act well, professional. Even with the written word.

Also, if your customers require explanations that a 4 year old would understand then you are a better plumber than i am. I would not have the patience as i draw the line somewhere in the low double digits age wise.

Thanks for your time.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PlungerJockey said:


> I'd say most of our callbacks come from the guys trying to repair faucets and shower valves that should be replaced. It's generally because they feel sorry for the HO or they are in a hurry and those will bite you every time.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, We don't ask them to up-sale everything. However there is a big difference in reliability if you replace the stems on a 30 year old 3 handle Sayco shower valve as opposed to throwing bib washers in it.


Funny but I rebuild a lot of old 2 and 3 handle tub faucets without any problem with callbacks....:whistling2:

There is a knack to it though....

The first thing to realize is you are never just putting in a washer and thinking the job is done.... That Grand Canyon eroded through the seat will rip a new washer to shreds before your taillights go out of sight.... At a minimum the seats are getting ground, with replacement being the preferred option. It takes 2 smooth surfaces to stop water!

The stems must be in good condition! This includes the seat mount, stem threads, packing, bonnet washer, splines and the handle. Any part that is not in good condition is getting replaced.

This next part is the most important part....
Lube it well and *Never* overtighten the packing!
Overtightening the packing will cause the whole repair to fail....

Overtightening the packing causes:

Accelerated wear of the packing and leaking once worn.
Difficulty turning the handle and a lack of feeling when the washer contacts the seat. This often causes the customer to overtighten when shutting the faucet off, destroying the washer.
Can cause the stem to springback turning itself back on.

The packing should only be tightened enough that it does not leak.

The handle should be very easy to turn and you should be able to feel the washer contact the seat. Demonstrate this to the customer and explain to them that feeling that contact is important and overtightening will cause additional repairs to be needed, but if they do not overtighten the repair will last for many years of service...

Rare is the day that I get a callback on a rebuilt faucet....


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Most callbacks are from sending the wrong person to do the job.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

95% of the time it's cheap material or parts. I try to always pay more for Better quality, but cheap is the world we live in. I havent had callbacks in long time, and this past month I replaced 3 faulty limits in 3 different HWT's ( all same brand John wood) and within 2 weeks I had callbacks on 2 of them. No hot water. Faulty limits. These are replacement limits that cost me 5$. And by code I can't bypass this POS. Come on. So 120$ service call turns into a waste if time.


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## James420 (Nov 14, 2012)

I've ran 311 calls since 3-2-13 and have had 4 call backs. Two sewers within a week of me doing them, 1 toilet repair, and 1 faucet repair. 

I say since the company I work for doesnt have a camera, or a decent machine for sewers K50, that we should not be doing them. Its usually the consistent call back that we have. In my case I've been out of plumbing since 1999 and haven't run a sewer machine since 1996, so my call backs on sewers I think would be typical. Not that I'm making an excuse.:whistling2:


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

It happens to the best of us who can admit being human. 
1, Check your work when finished, 
2, Check it again after you pick up your tools and clean up, 
3, Then check w one final time with the customer as you show off your work before giving them the bill.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

This may shock people.... But I have had call backs...yes I know...I should act like I walk on water because I'm now a owner... But yes I have had callbacks. As long as its not every job you do. Your going to have a few if your running service. Those that say they haven't are not being honest with themselves or in their mind twisting it so they can say not them. I remember my first callback. The lady went up one side of me and down the other and back again. I thought I really should reconsider plumbing after her. But we became very good customer/plumber friends and she referred me to everyone.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

damnplumber said:


> It happens to the best of us who can admit being human.
> 1, Check your work when finished,
> 2, Check it again after you pick up your tools and clean up,
> 3, Then check w one final time with the customer as you show off your work before giving them the bill.


Ahh yes the triple check. You haven't checked unless you've triple checked. Now 4 times and you have OCD. Lol


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

redbeardplumber said:


> *95% of the time it's cheap material or parts.* I try to always pay more for Better quality, but cheap is the world we live in. I havent had callbacks in long time, and this past month I replaced 3 faulty limits in 3 different HWT's ( all same brand John wood) and within 2 weeks I had callbacks on 2 of them. No hot water. Faulty limits. These are replacement limits that cost me 5$. And by code I can't bypass this POS. Come on. So 120$ service call turns into a waste if time.


Couldn't agree more, most of the callbacks that I've had in recent memory have been due to manufacturer defects.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Over time even the trusted brands become just one step above junk.one brand that I have been impressed with is McGuire I had a bad basket strainer they sent a replacement with a box to return the bad one to see what went wrong. We have very little leverage on the manufacture so most of the time they don't care unless it gets in there pockets


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

My callback rates have trended a little higher over the past few years... maybe one or two every 3-6 months. That's still good in the big picture but it's sometimes something I cannot even control. 


Like at this point, you'll never get me to rebuild a builder's grade toilet, or reset one. You're wasting both of our time with that mindset, and sure enough; things go wrong on the cheap ones. 

Won't hold still... new one or get another plumber.


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

damnplumber said:


> It happens to the best of us who can admit being human.
> 1, Check your work when finished,
> 2, Check it again after you pick up your tools and clean up,
> 3, Then check w one final time with the customer as you show off your work before giving them the bill.



Same thing I do. Really cuts back on problems!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

tnplumber said:


> Same thing I do. Really cuts back on problems!


We won't have your back without a proper introduction...


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> We won't have your back without a proper introduction...


Ok i will post something in introduction section.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

The company I work for a averages 3 or 4 call backs per week, sometimes more in the winter when we get absolutely slammed with snowbirds. However, this number should be higher but many times the tech will call In with some trouble and I will have to bail them out and finish job. My bosses do not higher anybody with plumbing experience and push them into the field as soon as possible. So I believe call backs can definitely be reduced through having qualified and knowledgeable techs. As I've read on this forum, it is important to maintain the integrity of the trade, of which some companies do not.


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