# Some jobs from this week



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Sporting the new I phone. Heres a few photos I snapped from this week. 

Kitchen remodel. Sink was moved a bit. New window locations also, hence the reframed wall. I hate to bore the exterior 2x4 wall studs 2 9/16" for PVC, so copper it is. The trap arm will still be every bit of 5'. No way to repipe it over in the basement. Joists run front to back, and this line starts high in the bay, and runs to the front of the house. 

The offset is 6" above. We removed the stud to the right of the original bay to only use 1 coupling. New gas piping to cooktop is in front. 

HVAC will be in the toekick. 

White sticker today!:thumbsup:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Extg s trap. 

Slab on grade. 

Lead pipe. 

Fernco this:no:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

We left the shop for this one today, at 2:30 PM. 

Back by 4. LOVE the new propress. I would be tossing and turning all night if I soldered this one. [In a rush, on a Friday.] Plus, we figured it saved at least an hour pressing it. I did add the pan and vacuum breaker. Outlet of pan is right over a laundry sink, so when it leaks, it will drip through one ceiling tile to make it into the sink below:laughing::yes:

This is up in a ceiling. Above a bathroom. Tight to the deck. I though about trying to get a shorty in, but with all of the wiring, and t-bar drop ceiling, I don't think it would have went. We really had to wrangle this one in. 

I put the whip on for the electrician. He will have to add a disconnect. We were there the other day. Unit was leaking like a sieve. And firing. No means to turn off electric, so I undid the wire nuts in the junction box.

Yes, that is a 2 inch open vent into the attic, from a laundry sink. This is my first job for this company, [I hope they pay] and some hack installed the lt below, cut in sharkbites. :no:. Hey, at least he attempted to vent it. 

I'll put it in the report. :yes:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Think Nacho can read english?:laughing:

I argued with the gc (who is playing tile man on this one) for 10 minutes. They just don't get it. :furious: 

"We always nail the wonderboard to the curb. It never leaks."


Yeah right, a$$hole. It does leak. Always. They just ain't calling you back to fix it. In a few years, someone will know the plumber at least tried. 

[Oh well, my butt is covered.] 

We tear them out quite a bit. Curbs and subfloor all rotted. At least my tile guy does it right.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Is that a 17 ga. "S" trap ? Nuts look pretty heavy.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

SlickRick said:


> Is that a 17 ga. "S" trap ? Nuts look pretty heavy.


 
But of course. 

Wolverine Brass, with the "machined rod brass nuts"

In their catalog, they have a full page about them, with pictures. They start off with a piece of solid brass bar, octagon shaped. They then machine the nuts out of it. :thumbsup:

I think it costs me like $35.00. Worth it, though. They never leak.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Extg s trap.
> 
> Slab on grade.
> 
> ...



Is that leaded in? I see you mentioned lead pipe. Just curious as to how that works. Is it hard to do?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Indie said:


> Is that leaded in? I see you mentioned lead pipe. Just curious as to how that works. Is it hard to do?



Just takes talent.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> Just takes talent.


Yep,

Along with a measure of patience, a soft burning torch, and 50/50 solder.

(Doesn't hurt to take the battery out of the smoke detector either)


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Indie said:


> Is that leaded in? I see you mentioned lead pipe. Just curious as to how that works. Is it hard to do?


 
The lead pipe is "peened" over the slab. We grind the chrome off of the tailpiece, and tin it. (with lead solder). Then, its soldered into the lead drain. (with lead solder). The new stuff has a high melting point. 

Not hard at all. It does get tricky when the lead gets thin, or if its a wood floor, or coming out of a wall. I use a soft flame torch (acteylene) turned way down, and work it. You gotta lay it on like caulk, and not get it too hot, or it all runs down the drain. :yes:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Oh yeah, and get it too too hot, the lead pipe melts, then you got a real mess.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> ..We grind the chrome off of the tailpiece...


I always got stuck with that task as a cub. My grinder consisted of sand cloth and if I was lucky, at least one worn out jersey glove.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

When I first started, my boss told me to file it off. I was pretty green, so I did. (I was in his truck, and his file was about 50 years old. Talk about dull. I'da been better off rubbing it on the sidewalk)

With a Wolverine trap. Took like an hour. They got some thick chrome, and its nickel plated underneath, to boot. Good times, good times. 

I then went to a DeWalt cordless angle grinder. Works pretty good, but its easy to thin out the brass with the small contact area of the disc. 

I now use a miniature Porter Cable belt sander. The new small one. It works great.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> But of course.
> 
> Wolverine Brass, with the "machined rod brass nuts"
> 
> ...


When I was there a while back, they told me those machines that machine those slip nuts were either sold or given, can't remember which, from the defense department at the end of WW II.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Indie, prolly the safest place to get the feel for it would be a brass closet flange on a lead closet bend.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> Indie, prolly the safest place to get the feel for it would be a brass closet flange on a lead closet bend.


Lead is so uncommon here that I can't tell you the last time I have seen it. Most of the time it gets cuts out and replaced. Most of the slabs here if older have copper drains. 

It might be worth trying sometime if the opportunity presents itself. 



Good work RLP I like seeing someone who can fix problems, not just replace. Although most of the time I talk people into replacements of whatever it is they are having problems with. :laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Thanks Indie.

If I can do a quality repair, that will last, I will. If it needs to be new, that's what I tell them. 

I've been so busy, I don't have time to chain them to the table,'and all.

My younger brother is in his first year of his apprenticeship, and I recently made a mock up of some lead drains for him to practice on. I drilled some holes in 3/4" plywood, and peened some lead. I soldered a piece of tubular in one, so he can get the feel of taking it apart. And left 2 ready to go. I'll post some pix before and after.

The time to practice that is not in a customers 100 year old home.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Thanks Indie.
> 
> If I can do a quality repair, that will last, I will. If it needs to be new, that's what I tell them.
> 
> ...



Does your brother work for you then? That is nice of you to train him on that. I often forget that somewhere in world there is actually some journeyman or master training apprentices. 

Its most unfortunate for too many of us that we had to go through the school of hard knocks with little assistance. 



RLP, I was not thinking of trying it in someones home. More get some lead and set up like your talking. Just for kicks, maybe in the winter time If I am still working for myself. We might all be in the bread line if the politicians don't work something out.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I was more speaking of my brother, not you. You could do it, especially if you had too.

He started working for me a few years ago, during summer vaca from high school. He is 18 years my junior. He never even picked up a tool till then.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Think Nacho can read english?:laughing:
> 
> I argued with the gc (who is playing tile man on this one) for 10 minutes. They just don't get it. :furious:
> 
> ...


 I spent a little over 36 hours this week walking a HO through the perils of hiring his 'Buddy' to do the tile work.

His 'Buddy' removed our stud guards and hung his tile board -- It took 4 years for the screws to rust out before the leak really manifested itself.

Nevermind the black mold that took on a life of its own under the Zuma tub everytime the body sprays were used.

I'd love to help him out -- But he needs to put away his 'BLAME' finger before I commit to helping him out.


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## ironandfire (Oct 9, 2008)

Nice work RLP


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Nice pics, especially from a phone. Did you download to your computer and then upload from there? Is it just as easy to upload them to PZ directly from the phone?

Battery life good?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Wht is that for???*



RealLivePlumber said:


> We left the shop for this one today, at 2:30 PM.
> 
> Back by 4. LOVE the new propress. I would be tossing and turning all night if I soldered this one. [In a rush, on a Friday.] Plus, we figured it saved at least an hour pressing it. I did add the pan and vacuum breaker. Outlet of pan is right over a laundry sink, so when it leaks, it will drip through one ceiling tile to make it into the sink below:laughing::yes:
> 
> . :yes:


I am just wondering what is the reason for a vaccum breaker on a water heater??? 

 Isnt that just something else that could leak some day?? 

is that code in your region??

just wondering


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> I am just wondering what is the reason for a vaccum breaker on a water heater???
> 
> Isnt that just something else that could leak some day??
> 
> ...


 They're required if the HW tank is installed above the highest hot water fixture/outlet. They keep the tank from siphoning out when the water is turned off to the house and the house is drained down.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

IPC 2009

_*504.1 ANTISIPHON DEVICES:* An approved means, such as a cold water "dip" tube with a hole at the top or a vacuum relief valve installed in the cold water supply line above the top of the heater or tank, shall be provided to prevent siphoning of any storage water heater or tank.

*504.2 VACUUM RELIEF VALVE:* Bottom fed water heaters and bottom fed tanks connected to water heaters shall have a vacuum relief valve installed. The vacuum relief valve shall comply with ANSI Z21.22.
_
From a function standpoint the location (above other fixtures) makes a big difference but if I am understanding this part of the code, EVERY bottom fed WH must have an antisiphon device.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Nice pics, especially from a phone. Did you download to your computer and then upload from there? Is it just as easy to upload them to PZ directly from the phone?
> 
> Battery life good?


 
I don't know how to post pictures directly from the I phone, so I e-mail them to myself, then do it from the desk. Battery life is pretty good. When you start using it to peruse the net, or the zone, it sucks it pretty quick, though. 

As far as the vac breaker, if the outlet of the WH is above a fixture, the code says you need it.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank you for the response. Since it is your thread, hope you don't/didn't mind the drift.

I use an app killer and that has helped with battery life. (Still surprised how quickly it runs down though.) I'm thinking of purchasing a back-up battery to have on hand, fully charged, when needed.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

What is an app killer?

I usually [frequently] double click the round button, and hold my finger on the icons at the bottom. They will start to wiggle, and a minus sign shows up, allowing you to close the app. Kind of a pain, though.

I got the car charger. We are in the truck alot during the day, so I can plug it in, in between calls. The battery seems to charge really quick.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> What is an app killer?
> 
> I usually [frequently] double click the round button, and hold my finger on the icons at the bottom. They will start to wiggle, and a minus sign shows up, allowing you to close the app. Kind of a pain, though.
> 
> I got the car charger. We are in the truck alot during the day, so I can plug it in, in between calls. The battery seems to charge really quick.


The guy at the phone store put it on. It's a free app, "Advanced Task Killer"

The icon is on my home screen. I touch it, and then select "Kill all Selected Apps", then I'm done. The b.s. apps are automatically selected. So basically, two clicks total and I'm done.

I was going to get a car charger, but I was told that it is better to let the battery almost die completely and then charge fully. Charging on/off in the car we wear out the battery faster. IDK for sure though.

It does charge rather quickly! :yes:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

PlumbCrazy said:


> I was going to get a car charger, but I was told that it is better to let the battery almost die completely and then charge fully. Charging on/off in the car we wear out the battery faster. IDK for sure though.
> 
> It does charge rather quickly! :yes:


 Lithium Ion batteries are good for about 500 charge cycles before charge degradation begins to set in -- And even the degradation/decline isn't nearly as bad as the Nickel Metal Hydride decline was.

I think the information about letting the battery nearly die is a throwback to the 'memory' problems associated with Nickel Cadmium batteries.

A spare battery is always a good idea -- Especially if you're running areas of your business with a mobile device. I was laying on my stomach in an attic space a few months ago and crushed the battery in my cell phone. Fortunately, I had a spare battery sitting on a shelf at the office.

As for keeping it plugged in with either a car charger or a wall charger, Lithium Ion batteries are cheap -- I'd rather shorten the life cycle of my battery by a few cycles than miss an important call.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> I don't know how to post pictures directly from the I phone, so I e-mail them to myself, then do it from the desk. Battery life is pretty good. When you start using it to peruse the net, or the zone, it sucks it pretty quick, though.
> 
> As far as the vac breaker, if the outlet of the WH is above a fixture, the code says you need it.


 
Get the plumbing zone app, it will allow you to attach pictures from the I phone library.

Also vac breakers are required if the heater is a side outlet.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Not fimiliar with an s trap, never used one, how is it vented?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Not fimiliar with an s trap, never used one, how is it vented?


It's not... :laughing:


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

No vent, nice


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