# Pex size needed



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

We don't do residential, so I need help. We have a foundry we do work for. The foundry maintenance manager has a house with sulfur in his well water. The copper pipe is pinholing all over and needs replacing. He wants pex. I am willing to do it, but have only installed it for radiant heat. The well tank has a 1" outlet, then it reduces to 3/4" It feeds a softener and peroxide injector, then 2 bathrooms, kitchen and washing machine. Can I pipe it in 3/4" pex? Or do I need to feed it 1" to the water treatment equipment and then reduce?


----------



## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Your good with 3/4" to all


----------



## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

3/4 is more than enough. The only times we use 1" pipe is on large homes with bathrooms on the other side of the home then reduce to 3/4


----------



## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Do it correct and put a home run system in. Every fixture gets its own 1/2" dedicated line off of a 1" header.


----------



## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

^^^^^ boo!


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> We don't do residential, so I need help. We have a foundry we do work for. The foundry maintenance manager has a house with sulfur in his well water. The copper pipe is pinholing all over and needs replacing. He wants pex. I am willing to do it, but have only installed it for radiant heat. The well tank has a 1" outlet, then it reduces to 3/4" It feeds a softener and peroxide injector, then 2 bathrooms, kitchen and washing machine. Can I pipe it in 3/4" pex? Or do I need to feed it 1" to the water treatment equipment and then reduce?


Can't you install a Water right treatment to get rid of the sulfur from water??


----------



## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

redbeardplumber said:


> ^^^^^ boo!


What's wrong with a home run system? I believe that it looks so much more professional not to mention the chance of a fitting failing is way less as there is only two crimps. The OP said they have issues already with hard water. In my opinion a home run system is superior. I have seen places here that are piped by a 3/4 mains and they have hard water, every tee has corrosion and the pipe is fine. Just my two cents, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Every single one of us on here would do it different. I would do a home run, you may not so it is what it is.


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Can't you install a Water right treatment to get rid of the sulfur from water??


It's already installed, but it's been untreated for years. Plus, peroxide is tough on copper, too. 
I think I will run 1" to the treatment equipment, then a manifold after that.


----------



## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

422 plumber said:


> It's already installed, but it's been untreated for years. Plus, peroxide is tough on copper, too.
> I think I will run 1" to the treatment equipment, then a manifold after that.


That amount of fixtures 3/4" is more than enough. We bring the suction line into the house being 100 psi poly then a house that size we bush down to 3/4 after the pressure tank. Almost all of our municipal water services up here are 3/4 anyways.


----------



## budders (May 19, 2013)

As much as the homerun system looks good its way more money


----------



## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

Home run is great and all but I wouldn't want to open up a whole wall. I would just Replace.


----------



## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

If the copper pipe is pin holing the brass fittings might also. You may want to look at plastic crimp fittings.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Take a look see at this, I'm sure you'll find it helpful....
http://www.huduser.org/portal/publications/pex_design_guide.pdf

I'd go with a Trunk & Branch or in a large home a Modified Trunk & Branch with remote manifolds and recirculation...

*Home runs are for plumbers that can't size pipe...* :laughing:

And oh yea corrosion problems says use plastic fittings...


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

alberteh said:


> If the copper pipe is pin holing the brass fittings might also. You may want to look at plastic crimp fittings.


That's what I am doing. Peroxide is tough on copper, as well.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

jc-htownplumber said:


> Home run is great and all but I wouldn't want to open up a whole wall. I would just Replace.


Not opening up walls, all stub ups are going through the floor. The tub and shower are back to back, we are going to demo the tub and surround, install new valves and then a new tub and surround.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> Not opening up walls, all stub ups are going through the floor. The tub and shower are back to back, we are going to demo the tub and surround, install new valves and then a new tub and surround.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Replace it with MOENTROLS and be a hero..


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Replace it with MOENTROLS and be a hero..


LOL, whatever they provide is going in.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

Home run is the superior system , if you can swing it . Trust me i would l know ! I recently did a 3 washroom 2 stories finished basement water line replacement on a home upgraded polyb to a home run system . Took 2 days, cost around $1000 charged $2500.00. 

Sizing Pex-a must be job for copperheads who can't identify the true benefits of a home run system... :whistling:

Ya lets replace the copper, but maintain this archaic branch system with all those harsh flow changes and promote water hammer inside the walls... Maybe even Use brass pex tees and 90's so they serve no advantage over the former copper issues... :laughing: 

Lets admit it fellow plumbers, pex-a ain't so bad, and its truest testament to such is proven extensively in the home run system. Maybe you haven't had a hot shower and been able to flush the toilet at the same time before... ? Its something else to a client when laundry , dishes and showers can happen simultaneously ... No amount of "waterline sizing skill" can replicate that capability :nods:

How exactly is the home run more expensive than dozens of extra tees, 90's, reducers , pex adaptors and crimp joints?


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

SSP said:


> Home run is the superior system , if you can swing it . Trust me i would l know ! I recently did a 3 washroom 2 stories finished basement water line replacement on a home upgraded polyb to a home run system . Took 2 days, cost around $1000 charged $2500.00.
> 
> Sizing Pex-a must be job for copperheads who can't identify the true benefits of a home run system... :whistling:
> 
> ...


If you had MOENTROL installed, you wouldn't need to worry about hot shower when toilets are flushed.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SSP said:


> Sizing Pex-a must be job for copperheads who can't identify the true benefits of a home run system... :whistling:


.........


----------



## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm not a fan of the home run system. Maybe if the house is very small. I've seen some that look really crappy and it sucks to have to purge the furthest fixture to get hot water and then you use the fixture right next to it and you have to purge it also.


----------



## Pipemaster41 (Jan 9, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, Why not do cpvc? 
It's fast, easy and cheap. You can pipe a bathroom in 30 minutes once demo is done


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I have used it, but don't like it.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

Don't get me wrong , i loves me copper... I run primarily L copper as 90% of my jobs are commercial where there is no need for Pex at any point or time. We have mostly steel structures with required minimum fire ratings, and ample space to route lines properly, plus cost is a lesser issue for the businesses we serve in said industry. 
However my argument is fairly specific to residential applications, even more specifically to the domestic distribution piping. I do not use M copper or pex b-c but Considering this is what most residential contractors prefer up in Canada , we end up having some cheap competition to stay on par with, so adjustments need to be made to remain cost effective when bidding. As a small shop owner the only way to grow is volume, and when you are only a couple people doing many jobs the profit margins are relative to speed and efficiency i.e no callbacks. We are in, we are out. 

I just wrapped up a 3 bath custom home this weekend. Custom shower , jacuzzi soaker, 3 hose bibs, large home etc etc and What i call a home run system was 1" copper supplied to HWT, and to copper manifolds hot and cold, that were individual 1/2" wirsbo runs to each fixture, 3/4" to showers/soakers, and every washroom has ample pressure at all times across peak demand and i can guarantee this system to my customer to meet their demands. Faster and more effective than the competition .

On my own i have gutted a 3 bathroom finished 2 story home of PolyB and replaced all the way to water meter all new copper to headers and then pex-a from the manifolds to fixtures with new valves and all the fix ins. Took me 2 days and i was done everything minus minor drywall work. Knowing the advantages of resources available is key business stuff..., most plumbers use sharkbites etc


purging the air takes 5 minutes ... And has it advantages when servicing ! Like You can siphon drain the hot and cold through the hwt drain valve when you do the proper steps..


----------



## Zegna (May 5, 2014)

dclarke said:


> I'm not a fan of the home run system. Maybe if the house is very small. I've seen some that look really crappy and it sucks to have to purge the furthest fixture to get hot water and then you use the fixture right next to it and you have to purge it also.


Agreed.
Over a 20 year period, I wonder what the extra hot water costs and water tax costs are related to this system are. If you turn on a faucet in a bathroom on the other side of the home, and run 32 oz of water before hot water streams in, 3 times a day, 365 days a years, for 20 years in the home, that is 5500 wasted gallons of water on a single fixture over the life time.

Would a pex user not be better off (over the life time) to pipe 3/4 to the sector and manifold to the local fixtures?


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

422 plumber said:


> We don't do residential, so I need help. We have a foundry we do work for. The foundry maintenance manager has a house with sulfur in his well water. The copper pipe is pinholing all over and needs replacing. He wants pex. I am willing to do it, but have only installed it for radiant heat. The well tank has a 1" outlet, then it reduces to 3/4" It feeds a softener and peroxide injector, then 2 bathrooms, kitchen and washing machine. Can I pipe it in 3/4" pex? Or do I need to feed it 1" to the water treatment equipment and then reduce?


Why wouldn't you treat the water?


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Why wouldn't you treat the water?


Because the water is treated, the copper pipe is shot from being untreated all these years.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

Redwood said:


> Take a look see at this, I'm sure you'll find it helpful....
> http://www.huduser.org/portal/publications/pex_design_guide.pdf
> 
> I'd go with a Trunk & Branch or in a large home a Modified Trunk & Branch with remote manifolds and recirculation...
> ...


As usual, ALWAYS providing useful information. Thanks For the link Red!


----------



## spyros (Jun 4, 2014)

SSP said:


> Home run is the superior system , if you can swing it . Trust me i would l know ! I recently did a 3 washroom 2 stories finished basement water line replacement on a home upgraded polyb to a home run system . Took 2 days, cost around $1000 charged $2500.00.
> 
> Sizing Pex-a must be job for copperheads who can't identify the true benefits of a home run system... :whistling:
> 
> ...


I am not in Canada or in The States ,I do plumbing in Greece for more than twenty years ,and so far I've learned this; going cheap isn't the way to go because there will always be someone else cheaper than you.Going BETTER and more efficient IS the way to earn more .Since we all do plumbing for living and not as a hobby ,inevitably we all try to earn as much as possible.I ,personally try to stand out from being the cheapest and try to present myself (and to be ) as cost-effective as possible.I explain to my customers the pros and cons of every system and let them choose with a small guidance.I ,personally have never used "home run " but I suspect that it is the same with my preferred plumbing system which consists of two main supply lines a cold and a hot one.Those are supplying every tap or faucet through a set of manifolds and there are only two connections ,one on the manifold and one on the end of each line.I believe that this way you have the best solution regarding flows but unfortunately there is a downside on this.You have to insulate cold water as well as hot because otherwise there will be condensations from the water in the air when contacting the cold water pipes and especially manifold.Other than that ,the system runs perfectly well with balanced flows even when there are more than one water consumption simultaneously.I also prefer to use a system like that because it minimizes potential leaks by having less connections and by having half of those connections reachable.Now ,if the house is huge with long runs ,then you can always suggest the owner to have more than one set of manifolds installed and of course get paid for it.Of course ,that is only my opinion and nothing else.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

spyros said:


> I am not in Canada or in The States...



PZ is a site for those already in the plumbing trade. You are welcome to view the site and use the information available to you. Please refrain from posting until you have established that you are active in the trade. 

Start here>>> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/ 


Thanks.


----------



## Chris3topher271 (Jun 13, 2014)

He's asking for sizing and no one stopped to ask exactly what and how many fixtures are in the house. All we know for sure is 5.5 water fixture units (AW and kitchen sink). My dummy number for 3/4 is 19 fixture units, throw 2 full bathrooms on there and you're likely to exceed the max on 3/4. (We also don't know the PSI, distance to furthest fixture, elevation loss or gain, and meter size .....if you want to get technical)


----------

