# Idiot plumbing



## Andrew G (May 27, 2013)

Try to find the TPR valve. 
Don't think this guy understands what a tpr is and why it needs to be immersed in the tank?


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Is he eliminating the need for a low point drain this way?


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Although I don't like the location of it, it would still serve the same purpose of protecting the tank, if it were immersed in the hot feed coming off the tank. Probably should plug the t/p opening & install a brass by threaded T on the hot. Then the probe could be in the stream of water coming out of tank.


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## Kolenvall (Jan 11, 2014)

I can't see the problem too. The connection of the valve is overloaded. It could have been done without the second pipe union.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Kolenvall said:


> I can't see the problem too. The connection of the valve is overloaded. It could have been done without the second pipe union.


Ya, what he said... lol


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Wow, I can't believe the comments that you guys are stating


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> Wow, I can't believe the comments that you guys are stating


Firstly, let me ask you, is there a shut-off valve isolating the t/p relief valve from the tank on the hot side? My observation was no. That being the case, what mandates that the t/p relief valve has to be immersed in the tank? As long as you have the means, I.e. a tee which allows t/p valve probe to be immersed on the hot water discharge from tank, where is the failure?


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

The t&p valve probably would probably never actually even get wet here let alone sense any temperature


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

tim666 said:


> The t&p valve probably would probably never actually even get wet here let alone sense any temperature



This is plumbing 101, read your code


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> This is plumbing 101, read your code



Sorry, this was meant for the other guy, I can't believe this is that difficult


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## Kolenvall (Jan 11, 2014)

The topic starter is right.http://www.watts.com/pages/support/tp.asp?catId=64
By the way, how are these fitting named which are shown on my picture?
I thouhgt they were alike.


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## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

The TP valve belongs in the tank, top 6in...Period.
If the tank does not have a tapping then a female tee on the hot side would be the only thing left to do. Do you think the plumber wanna be purged the air out from under the TP valve. Is the TP valve discharge piped to the kitchen sink? lol Oh also the hot side in not bonded.


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## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

Top one is a 3/4 C x Female adapt.
Lower one is a 3/4 C x C union.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

This has been amusing


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Kolenvall said:


> I can't see the problem too. The connection of the valve is overloaded. It could have been done without the second pipe union.



This guys not even a plumber, but his uncle is good in plumbing👍👍


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumbdrum said:


> Wow, I can't believe the comments that you guys are stating





tim666 said:


> The t&p valve probably would probably never actually even get wet here let alone sense any temperature


I was wondering if they were looking at the same T&P Valve as us...:blink:

If they were I hope all of their water heater installations are inspected....


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## Johnny Canuck (Feb 24, 2015)

plumber11928 said:


> The TP valve belongs in the tank, top 6in...Period.


This is what I was always taught...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

The fact that this needed to even be explained is mind boggling


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

Doesn't heat rise? 

Just like the flames that I am fanning?


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## BumbleBee (Jan 24, 2015)

IPC 504.4.1 is the code for this, which reads "Temperature relief valves shall be located in the tank as to be actuated by the water in the top 6 inches of the tank served...." I've always read that to mean that the T&P has to set in the top of the tank or on the side of the tank but with in the top 6 inches of the tank....


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

BumbleBee said:


> IPC 504.4.1 is the code for this, which reads "Temperature relief valves shall be located in the tank as to be actuated by the water in the top 6 inches of the tank served...." I've always read that to mean that the T&P has to set in the top of the tank or on the side of the tank but with in the top 6 inches of the tank....


This is also per MFG's installation and warranty :thumbsup:

google tank explosions;
back in 2000 a 6 gal electric in seattle blew the top off a commercial building and wiped out a strip mall


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3i_ZGPtm68


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Redwood said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3i_ZGPtm68


Yeap... nothing like steam ...


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## plumber tom (Aug 10, 2014)

1700 x the original volume - it will go somewhere...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumber tom said:


> 1700 x the original volume - it will go somewhere...


That's why steam heating has been so underrated lately..


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## Andrew G (May 27, 2013)

Yup, as per the UPC, the tpr valve has to be immersed in the top 6" of the tank. Most likely if the gas control or thermostats didn't shut off, the water starting to boil wouldn't flow past the tpr sensor rod 3' up in the air. 
If anything, they should cut into the wall and tie onto the relief drain down low enough to have the required pitch. Scary stuff. I let the customer know it needs to be corrected.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumber tom said:


> 1700 x the original volume - it will go somewhere...


Yep... The entire 50 gallons is hotter than boiling but held as a liquid by the pressure...

As soon as the tank ruptures and the pressure is relieved the entire 50 gallons of water instantly flashes to steam...

The ground under where they set that water heater off probably wasn't even hardly wet...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Ahhhh, I'm feeling better now. Those others boys better study up. Scary


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## Kolenvall (Jan 11, 2014)

http://youtu.be/UXRh0uHz7os 
This video shows the way of installion the manufacture gave. Besides the pipes. They should be flexible.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Mr. Plumbdrum you'll have a heart attack :laughing:


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

I saw this done before. It was because the inspector failed the heater install due to the t&p discharge line running up hill, and that was the solution. 


Sad part is it was passed after that had been done.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> IPC 504.4.1 is the code for this, which reads "Temperature relief valves shall be located in the tank as to be actuated by the water in the top 6 inches of the tank served...." I've always read that to mean that the T&P has to set in the top of the tank or on the side of the tank but with in the top 6 inches of the tank....


Yep and in Illinois........

*Section 890.1230 Safety Devices*
c) Combination Pressure-Temperature Relief Valves 

1) Combination pressure-temperature relief valves shall comply with the applicable requirements listed in Appendix A.Table A (Approved Standards for Plumbing Appliances/Appurtenances/Devices) for individual pressure and individual temperature relief valves, shall be installed so that the temperature sensing element is immersed in the hottest water within the top 6 inches of the tank, and shall have a test lever.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Kolenvall said:


> http://youtu.be/UXRh0uHz7os
> This video shows the way of installion the manufacture gave. Besides the pipes. They should be flexible.



Your starting to get on my nerves!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kolenvall (Jan 11, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> Your starting to get on my nerves!!!!!!!!!!!


I am sorry. I never meant to.:001_unsure:
We don't have any particular code for installing and plumbing. I will tell more. Those who has any kind of documents could do it even worse. 
I am thank ful to you forum. I found out about the tempreture valve. I have installed 3 of them with the heaters. Luckely i did it right. They were installed for public saunas. The owners never complained about any leaking out of the valves. How do you think which part of the valve would work out first when overheating: tempreture or pressure.I really need to know it. I want to install it into the firewood waterheater in a bathhouse with vaporarium.
If i am not welcomed here i will dissapear at that time. I know i could be at least for my poor english. I thaught it would be interesting to exchange experience. I don't have it much but i read and prepared a lot during my free time.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Kolenvall said:


> I am sorry. I never meant to.:001_unsure:
> 
> We don't have any particular code for installing and plumbing. I will tell more. Those who has any kind of documents could do it even worse.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry that I may have offended you, I did not know you were not from this country and may have different code requirements, but your profile stated that you are a plumber and in this country ,the topic of placement of the relief valve is the same location requirements no matter what code we are under in this country. Now to the other gentlemen who are not understanding the location of the T&P relief better get their crap together before they kill someone.


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## Lee in Texas (Jun 24, 2009)

The City of Austin told us to install it this way, if the T&P could not get out of the house...for a while. They then changed their minds and said to put it back in the water heater and direct it to the pan, with a Floodstop installed. I have only seen this once. It was an old house that had been added on to. What was once an outside wall is now a closet in the middle of the house, with no good way to get the T&P out. Stupid work done by stupid people.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Kolenvall said:


> ...If i am not welcomed here i will dissapear at that time. I know i could be at least for my poor english. I thaught it would be interesting to exchange experience. I don't have it much but i read and prepared a lot during my free time.


DO NOT DISSAPPEAR! You are very welcome here. Sometimes we forget the internet reaches other parts of our own country. It's no wonder we have to be reminded it reaches the whole world. Hopefully something shared will help you. 

Just maybe if we dropped our guard a little bit, we might learn a thing or two from you as well.


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## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

Wow... Still talking about T&P valve.
I would like to know why our codes are different.
Here in NJ our NSPC states...10.15.9.3.b Discharge from a relief valve into a water heater
pan shall be prohibited.

And in the IPC... 504.6.5 states... Discharge to the floor, to the pan serving the water heater or storage tank, to a waste receptor or to the outdoors.

Just wondering


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## joeplumber85 (Jul 16, 2012)

Perhaps that is one of those extra long shank T&P valves??? You know, the ones with the 3 foot shank.


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## Kolenvall (Jan 11, 2014)

That is good this topic is begun. The matter is that we have no any codes like this for plumbers. There are some for engineers. But they are to heavy and it is difficult to find something you need exactly. I am glad i have an opportunity to use yours. I am going to look it through in the nearest future. My engineer at the firm did not even intend to install expansive tank into a heating system for 900 sq.m. not because he forgot or something, but because he did not have a hose to connect it to system. 
So that is the way we do. It is a shame to me, but I am not the worst handyman in my area. 
Would you suggest anything to start with your code?


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