# From Greenhorn Apprentice to Responsible Master Plumber



## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm interested to know what it takes in your state or country to go from a newbie apprentice to owning your own business. I'll start it out with the Great State of Texas!

In Texas it is a mix of on the job training and class room. There are 4 levels of licensing here, Tradesman, Journeyman, Master and Responsible Master.

It takes 4,000 hours and 24 class room hours to be eligible for your Tradesman's license. Then you must go down to Austin and take a test that is broken down into 3 parts. Code/OSHA questions, hands on proficiency and rough in of a 2-story scale house.

Then It takes another 4,000 hours and 48 class room hours to be eligible for your Journeyman's license. Then you must go down to Austin and take a test that is broken down into 3 parts. Code/OSHA questions, hands on proficiency and rough in of a 2-story scale house.

Once you have your Journeyman's license you must then work for FOUR years before you are eligible to test for your Master's. Then you must go down to Austin and take a test that is broken down into 3 parts. Code/OSHA questions, hands on proficiency and 
design a three story sanitary drainage and vent system for sixteen (16) plumbing fixtures.

Then if you want to own your own plumbing company you must complete another 24 hours of class room time and apply.

When it's all said and done at a minimum it will take someone just starting out over 16,000 hour of on the job training, 124 hours of class room and continuing ed and $2,500-$3,000 to go from greenhorn apprentice to a Responsible Master Plumber.

That takes a lot of dedication and time. Is there any other state or country that requires that much to become a Responsible Master Plumber?


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## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

6000 hrs and 8 months of school in AB


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

johntheplumber said:


> I'm interested to know what it takes in your state or country to go from a newbie apprentice to owning your own business. I'll start it out with the Great State of Texas! In Texas it is a mix of on the job training and class room. There are 4 levels of licensing here, Tradesman, Journeyman, Master and Responsible Master. It takes 4,000 hours and 24 class room hours to be eligible for your Tradesman's license. Then you must go down to Austin and take a test that is broken down into 3 parts. Code/OSHA questions, hands on proficiency and rough in of a 2-story scale house. Then It takes another 4,000 hours and 48 class room hours to be eligible for your Journeyman's license. Then you must go down to Austin and take a test that is broken down into 3 parts. Code/OSHA questions, hands on proficiency and rough in of a 2-story scale house. Once you have your Journeyman's license you must then work for FOUR years before you are eligible to test for your Master's. Then you must go down to Austin and take a test that is broken down into 3 parts. Code/OSHA questions, hands on proficiency and design a three story sanitary drainage and vent system for sixteen (16) plumbing fixtures. Then if you want to own your own plumbing company you must complete another 24 hours of class room time and apply. When it's all said and done at a minimum it will take someone just starting out over 16,000 hour of on the job training, 124 hours of class room and continuing ed and $2,500-$3,000 to go from greenhorn apprentice to a Responsible Master Plumber. That takes a lot of dedication and time. Is there any other state or country that requires that much to become a Responsible Master Plumber?


Responsible Master???? Lol

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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> Responsible Master???? Lol Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Yup that allows master to operate a business


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> Yup that allows master to operate a business


Apprentice, journeyman , master in Ma. Journeyman can run a business with no apprentice's .

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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

Very interesting to hear other state's requirements, I feel like MA emphasizes the requirements of classroom hours like no other... The five year 550 hour requirement I feel was put in place to chase out hacks, back education and bring in more money


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## TC27 (Mar 10, 2012)

Allegheny County, PA

Upon completion of school (576 hours) and employment (4 years) or the equivalent of 8,000 hours worked with a registered master plumber, candidate makes application through the Plumbing Section to take the Journeyman Plumbers Examination at a cost of $100.00 per examination

Journeyman wishing to take the Master’s Examination must have completed two complete years of work experience as a journeyman, make application to the Department’s Plumbing Section and, if/when accepted, submit to the examination at a cost of $200.00 per examination.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

In Ontario it's 9000 on the job hours, 3-8weeks courses of school. Then write a exam and pass with a 70% I believe to get your license. I'm not sure from there to your master, I know there is a test


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## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

Dpeckplb said:


> In Ontario it's 9000 on the job hours, 3-8weeks courses of school. Then write a exam and pass with a 70% I believe to get your license. I'm not sure from there to your master, I know there is a test


They got rid of the masters test here now, you pay the region 400 a year for it, toronto is like that, There is no masters in halton you just pay a contractor fee yearly


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

No masters in Alberta... Basically being a Master is the ability to pull a permit.... So must have a business license.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

Alberteh kind of glossed it over, so I'll hit some detail. In Alberta, Canada you first get indentured as an apprentice, no hours worked count towards your apprenticeship until you're indentured. When you've accrued enough hours (I think something like 1500-1800) you can apply for your first years school placement. Apprentices get to claim employment insurance benefits during the 8 weeks of courses at the Technical school, its written into the system. When we train as plumbers, we also train as gasfitters; I think the only workers that are purely gasfitters work for the gas utility companies. As noted the classes are 8 weeks in duration, there are trades related math classes, plumbing theory, plumbing shop, gas theory, heating classes for hydronics, shop classes touching on welding and surveying, etc. Each term has a final exam. Upon completing your 4th term you will take the Interprovincial exam for your Red Seal Journeymans ticket, which qualifies you as a Plumber across all of Canada. There is also your gas exam, and a person can be a first or second class gasfitter. A second class is licensed on appliances up to 400,000 btuh. To qualify for your first class requires another pile of hours accrued specifically on gasfitting and another term in school just on gasfitting. The gasfitter tickets do not get the interprovincial Red Seal.

Minimum 1500 hours a year x 4years (6000 hours) & 36 weeks of school to achieve Interprovincial JM plumber with second class gas ticket

Add 1500 hours gasfitting +8 weeks of school for First class gasfitter ticket

The "Master" designation here is just a registration & fee grab from the municipality, I just paid my fee and produced my tickets and bingo I'm a Master. It's required to be able to pull permits in Calgary.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

No "Master" designation in Nova Scotia; Interprovincial Red Seal is as high as we go. 8000 Hours as an apprentice, 4 blocks of theory training about 5-8 weeks long spaced out over the term of the apprenticeship. There is a log book issued to every apprentice in which a practical skills section must be completed and verified by a journeyman. After block 4 you write your IP exam. Pass is a 70%, after that you're done. The theory training and books cost about $2800.


OR...


If you can prove to the department of advanced labour and education that you have accumulated 12,000 hours in the trade, and can produce letters of reference from two qualified journeymen, they will allow you to write the IP exam. it costs around $780 to challenge. 

In either of those methods, if you have friends who are willing to lie for you it's pretty easy to fudge your way into a plumbing license if you can pass the tests and the IP exam.

Worst thing I find is that all you really need to be able to do to pass the IP exam is know how to read and answer a multiple choice question. All the tests and the exam seem geared more to trick you than to actually evaluate what you know about plumbing. I know journeyman plumbers who can't rough in a bungalow, or troubleshoot a plugged toilet. all they've ever done is run pipe in commercial installations. But someone will fill out the practical skills section of their apprenticeship log book, they can pass the exam and bam, they're a licensed plumber. When you get right down to it, it's Fraud. A qualified journeyman vouched for skills they simply didn't have. 

There is also no enforcement to speak of in this area. any joe blow carpenter, or "quintessential jack of all trades" as I've heard one man refer to himself, can go out and get away with doing a substantial amount of plumbing with no consequence.

Plumbing license in Nova Scotia doesn't count for much, especially when the standard journeyman wage on the south shore is only $19 and change per hour.


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## Archie (Mar 5, 2014)

I have to disagree Jason that a Plumbing License in Nova Scotia doesnt count for much, it counts for alot. I do agree that there are some out there that dont deserve them but its that way everywhere in every trade. I am very proud to be a certified plumber and it is one of the best things i've ever done. Those guys that are putting in unqualified or sub standard work are a PITA to everyone but when you come across it there is usually a job for you to rip it out and do it right. I walked in a basement yesterday for something unrelated and found where someone changed a water heater and left the old 60 gallon in the customers basement full of water, didnt install a shut off valve on the new tank and the relief valve discharge was a 3' piece of poly b curled up pointing at someones face. I explained to the customer what I found and they were happy to have me rectify everything. Now that had to be a handy hack work, I dont think even the worst plumber would go that low. But from now on that customer will be more careful who they hire, it will probably be me for anything plumbing. Its up to us sometimes to inform people of the benefits of having qualified trades because unfortunately sometimes they dont know. And good quality qualified plumbers are very hard to find here in NS so your license is very valuable to you. You wouldn't have to go very far to earn much better wages than 19 per hour especially if you take pride in what you do.


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

New hampshire is 8,000 hours and 4years at 154 hours a year to go from apprentice to jurnyman then wait 6 months and take the masters test


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying I'm not greatful or proud to be a licensed plumber, anymore than I'm saying I'd take a job that paid only $19 an hour. It took quite a few years and a lot of hard work to get where I am, and I take great pride in what I do, and am paid a fair wage. I'm just a little bitter over what the IP exam contained, and the fact that I'm put on the same level with people who can't do the work I was doing as a second year apprentice. There are a lot of top notch journeymen around here, but there are just as many hacks with the "mike Holmes red seal of approval" wallet card


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

That and I'm generally all worked up and spouting off about something, this is just my speil for the week


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## Chris3topher271 (Jun 13, 2014)

*Washington state*

Washington state. Apply for business license as a plumbing sub contractor. No plumbing card of any kind needed to pull permits after that.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Indiana 

There are three licenses in Indiana. 

PA - Plumbing apprentice. Registered with State, apprentice school and Apprentice program. Can't work in trade without supervision. 

JP - Journeyman Plumber. 4 year apprentice program. 8,000 work hours, 174 classroom hours over the 4 year period. Pass test. Can do any plumbing a long as working under Plumbing Contractor. 

PC - Plumbing Contractor. Same as journeyman requirement except after successful licensing you can open a plumbing business. 

At the end of apprenticeship you can test for either. Indiana allows a person who has been in trade a minimum of four years to run a plumbing business.

There is a CP - Corporate Plumbing License if you are incorporated. Requirement is for at least one responsible PC.


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