# Slab leak fun....not.



## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

Well, just got done repairing a hot line leak under a slab. 4 unit apartment. Got called out to this same apt. about 3 months back to do a leak detection. Dining room, which is on an exterior wall, flooded. They turned water off, then back on, no more leak! I was called after 3 other guys already scratched their heads on it. I brought out the microphone, listened everywhere, didn't hear dink. So, all I could figure was irrigation, hose bibb on, etc, and seeped in thru wall. Two months later, I'm back out for a backed up toilet on a Friday night. Had to pull it to snake it, pulled out a bunch of handi wipes. The owner, who've I've done lots of work for at my old job, tells me that the other place flooded 3 more times! And she says it only does it at midnight, and only when its cold? Weird. So all I can figure is, maybe its the recirc line from the hot water heater, pump maybe on a timer? We never go any further with it because its not leaking now, and others are involved.....so 3:48pm yesterday, I get the call, dining room is flooded. Turns out, the "others", and I mean Leak Detection service, general contractors, 25 year union plumbers, no one could find this leak. Every time they shut it off, turn it back on, it quits. Well, not this time! I get there, water everywhere, and still running. My first instinct is to shut it off. Its hot, so, I shut off the water heater. (100 gal, supplies all 4 apts). Leak stops. But this time I have sand at the baseboard of the exterior wall. The recirc was unplugged already, and valves closed, but that doesn;t do squat unless you can shut the point it is tied into, lord knows where that is. So, I start using common sense. The apt is at the front, and the water heater is at the back. The kitchen sink is also on the exterior wall, obviously the furthest point from the water heater. Thats where I would tie in the recirc. So, I open the wall under the sink. Bingo, there it is. Two lines coming up from under ground and tied into hot. I cut the line, and, forgive me, use a sharkbite cap to see if I'm right. I'm hoping and praying its the recirc line, because they can live without it, if need be. With the recirc valves shut off at the tank, and the pressure side capped, I open the shutoff to the water heater and......no luck. But now I can clearly see where the water is coming out of the ground. Shut it down, and go outside and dig a couple test holes at the foundation to see if I get any water coming back to me. Nope. Dang, this thing is further back. By now its almost 7. I don't want to jackhammer, running water and trying to listen is pointless because its coming so fast. We agree to shut off the hot water and come back in the am, today. So, this morning, after thinking and dreaming about it all night, I'm ready to beat this *****. Did I mention they just put new tile down? Did I mention they opened the floor BEFORE they put the tile down, and found nothing? So, they closed it all back up. (They shoulda called me THEN!) So, I start popping tiles, get the jackhammer out, make a relativley small hole by where the sand was, and I'll be damned, theres a copper pipe, with a pinhole in it . So, I'm thinking, here it is, only that damn common sense keeps telling me no way a pinhole made this much water, so, I cut the pipe at the hole, and gently lift....sure enough, the pipe pulls right out of the dirt. Jackhammer some more, dig some more, and keep following the pipe, until I find PEX! I was so not expecting that. Apparently, the floor had been opened many years ago, and a repair was made, and whomever direct buried PEX. And here were are again, fixing another bad section a mere 2 feet from where they fixed it already. And, the PEX isn't sleeved, either. I know this is long, so, I'm gonna stop for now, and post a reply to tell you how I fixed it. Some might like it, some might not.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Tell us, tell us, we're waiting.....how'd you fix it?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

It does sound like a bit of a hokey repair was done before but I'm assuming the copper had failed and not the newer pex. Yes? No? 






Paul


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Was running a new pipe through the walls and ceiling not an option?


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

Part 2. So, first thing I did was to cut the PEX and put a plug in it. Its obvious that its the hot line to the kitchen. There is nothing else. The bathrooms and all the other apartments are behind me. With the plug in place, I turn the hot water heater back on. And as I suspect, no more leak. Now I have a problem. Do I attempt to reconnect to the copper that is under the ground running to the kitchen, or, do I figure an alternate way to run a new line to the kitchen. To me, it made absolutely no sense to even try to reconnect. It was done before, and, here we are again, busting up cement. So, I call the owner's son, who is really in charge, and is a contractor of sorts, a real nice guy, so far as I can tell, because I haven't met him yet, but I will tomorrow. I explain the situation. I tell him I want to open the wall, run a line from the PEX, chisel out some footer, and put it in the wall. I'll have to have some in the cabinet, because it would be impossible to stay in the wall without removing the cabinets. Typical repipe stuff. He says "Do the most cost efficient thing." Well, that would be connect to the old copper. So, I don't. I use jackhammer and chipping hammer to notch out the foundation. I open wall and drill thru studs for the new line. I get in cabinets, drill some holes for new line to run thru. Remember the sharkbite? I cut that out. And then I got a little bit smarter. I redid the the copper in the wall and included a ball valve outside the wall to be able to shut down the recirc line where it ties in. So, if that sucker leaks, I can kill it at the tank and under the sink. (I'll get a pic tomorrow) I ran 1/2" pex from under the sink, thru 1 1/2" pvc thru the foundation and up to the pex that was already in the ground, minus maybe 6" so I could make the final connection to the pex that was already there. One thing I did was used 2 90's to jog from the wall space into the cabinet so I wouldn't stress the pex. Well, after firing it up, figures one of those 90's leaked, so, I redid it without the 90's and just made the exit hole from the wall into the cabinet bigger. I can always hide this with a sheetmetal cap, if need be. So thats it. Its done. Its holding. I left the tenant my phone number, and also showed him how to shut down the recirc at both ends if it decides to leak. I think the CORRECT solution is going to be a repipe, and, this will be a challenging one. I'm gonna push for it, believe me. Total hours, about 11. And I'm not patching anything.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> It does sound like a bit of a hokey repair was done before but I'm assuming the copper had failed and not the newer pex. Yes? No?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
yeah, copper failed. PEX was fine.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

JK949 said:


> Was running a new pipe through the walls and ceiling not an option?


 
thats what I did.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

update. So, I went by Sunday and met Richard, the son of the landlady, and explained all I did. He was concerned about the cost of the job, wanted to know how many hours, etc. I told him 11, at 105 per hour, with materials, should be about 1300 bucks. His reply, "Its WORTH IT!" And then, "Isn't there a way we can run all this overhead? We have 4 of these units (4 fourplexes) and if this one failed, how long until the next?" Finally, a contractor who gets it. I like this guy. So I tell him I'll bring it up to the boss, and, see how we can do this one. Its gonna be tricky, and I told him we'd have to punch some holes for sure, and its gonna take some thought.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

MikeS said:


> update. So, I went by Sunday and met Richard, the son of the landlady, and explained all I did. He was concerned about the cost of the job, wanted to know how many hours, etc. I told him 11, at 105 per hour, with materials, should be about 1300 bucks. His reply, "Its WORTH IT!" And then, "Isn't there a way we can run all this overhead? We have 4 of these units (4 fourplexes) and if this one failed, how long until the next?" Finally, a contractor who gets it. I like this guy. So I tell him I'll bring it up to the boss, and, see how we can do this one. Its gonna be tricky, and I told him we'd have to punch some holes for sure, and its gonna take some thought.


 





Bring your camera next time. We love pictures.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Don't you use air when "listening" for leaks.

And for the love of all things beautiful put some spaces in your posts.

Thank you in advance.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> Don't you use air when "listening" for leaks.
> 
> And for the love of all things beautiful put some spaces in your posts.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


You don't know how to read it, dude. Think of a speed rap (as in meth influenced chatter, not Snoopy Dog) , whenallthewordsruntogetherwithoutapauseforbreath.

Thanksforthestory,Mike. Ilikeshappyendings.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

sorry, I didn't realize I am supposed to double space. I guess there are alot of 

geezers here, like me, haha! I'll do better! Anyway, I got called back by 

Richard, the contractor. Wanted me to reset 3 toilets for him, same complex. 

They laid some tile in the downstairs and upstairs apts. The guy where the 

original leak was was telling me how everyone else involved was giving me 

kudos for finding the leak. I told him it was no big deal, really. And then 

scoped the place out for future repipe. I think I see the best way to do this. 

Working up a bid! (dbl spaced for your reading convenience)


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