# Customer request



## mongo (Jun 26, 2010)

I have a potential customer that has a lake home which is occupied only 3 months of the year. He has an unusual request. The following is a copy of an email to me:

*Looking for a plumber with a "hydro-electricial engineering degree." In other words, I want to install an electrical valve that is controlled by an on/off switch that allows you to turn the main water line off when leaving the lake which prevents flooding, etc., when things go wrong! Dentist offices use them since they have so many water lines.*

Here are my thoughts before answering his email.
1. What is wrong with simply shutting off the water service valve.
2. Basically he wants a solenoid valve installed with a switch in the garage. What could go wrong with this? Will the valve still remain closed in a "power-outage situation"?
3. Has anyone ever used this type of installation?

I'd like some feedback (for and against) this set up from other professionals.

Thanks


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

mongo said:


> I have a potential customer that has a lake home which is occupied only 3 months of the year. He has an unusual request. The following is a copy of an email to me:
> 
> *Looking for a plumber with a "hydro-electricial engineering degree." In other words, I want to install an electrical valve that is controlled by an on/off switch that allows you to turn the main water line off when leaving the lake which prevents flooding, etc., when things go wrong! Dentist offices use them since they have so many water lines.*
> 
> ...


I suppose he wants to flip a switch. You have two choices,you can use a normally open valve or a normally closed valve. The normally open valve will close when power is applied to it and a normally closed valve will open when power is applied to it.

In this case I would use a normally closed valve(must have power to open) because while he is away for 9 months he may lose power and a normally open valve would open. The down side of this is if he is at the house and he loses power his water will shut off. 

iI you use a 24v dc valve and ran everything through a battery and charger system the battery would hold the valve open until the power came back on if it was just for a day or so but you could add more batteries if the power is out for an extended time.

The best way to do it IMO is to install a relay on the alarm system that will control the electric valve. It can be programmed to only shut the water off when the owner enters a special code or everytime the user arms the system in "away" mode. Expect to pay 65-100 for a good valve and they are fast acting. I've seen a slow close system that uses a ballvalve and a motor that turns the valve on and off with no water hammer.

With it installed as part of the alarm system you can control it over the telephone. basicaly you can do just about anything you dream up.....its called AUTOMATION!!!!!!


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I use a normally closed valved in these situations with a ball valved bypass for manual operation when the power may be off or if the solenoid fails.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

is he on a well or city water? don't laugh i have customers that don't know if they have city water or septics. people don't know they just pay the bills. maybe some one else pays em. breid..................:rockon:


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## mongo (Jun 26, 2010)

breid1903 said:


> is he on a well or city water? don't laugh i have customers that don't know if they have city water or septics. people don't know they just pay the bills. maybe some one else pays em. breid..................:rockon:


 city water


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

breid1903 said:


> is he on a well or city water? don't laugh i have customers that don't know if they have city water or septics. people don't know they just pay the bills. maybe some one else pays em. breid..................:rockon:


Good call. If he's on a well, just create a secondary switch for the pump in the garage. 


I agree with Matt. Normally closed solenoid w/manual by-pass. 

Let's not forget about the HWT. :yes:Thermal expansion while the valve is closed? :yes: I think adding an expansion tank to invoice couldn't hurt 

Or a BRV (aka thermal expansion valve)...anyone had any experience with these? http://www.watts.com/prod_images/BRV-T_BRV-PEX.jpg


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

markb said:


> Good call. If he's on a well, just create a secondary switch for the pump in the garage.
> 
> 
> I agree with Matt. Normally closed solenoid w/manual by-pass.
> ...


Yes I installed one yesterday


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

mongo said:


> I have a potential customer that has a lake home which is occupied only 3 months of the year. He has an unusual request. The following is a copy of an email to me:
> 
> This reply probably has no effect as I believe you are from the south.
> Here in Pennsylvania a request for electric shut off and being out of the house for 9 months. The customer would have to be warned about freezing and drain down. Also it becomes difficult as to the type of heat in the house. Per the above I would advise against automatic shutoff. Too many varibles.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Yes I installed one yesterday


No problems?

It seems that they may be a better idea for customers. Cheaper than installing a n expansion tank?

To reply to Plumber_Bill

So it seems as though on top of a solenoid valve on the main, the customer also needs a solenoid valve to drain the building water. No water in winter = No worries???


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

markb said:


> No problems?
> 
> It seems that they may be a better idea for customers. Cheaper than installing a n expansion tank?
> 
> ...


Yes it was cheaper to use the valve and the fact that the system was not a closed system anyway pushed me to install the valve rather than a tank.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

mongo said:


> I have a potential customer that has a lake home which is occupied only 3 months of the year. He has an unusual request. The following is a copy of an email to me:
> 
> *Looking for a plumber with a "hydro-electricial engineering degree." In other words, I want to install an electrical valve that is controlled by an on/off switch that allows you to turn the main water line off when leaving the lake which prevents flooding, etc., when things go wrong! Dentist offices use them since they have so many water lines.*
> 
> ...


 
I installed a solenoid valve for a dentist's office one day. When I asked the dentist what was wrong w/ just turning water off w/ a ball valve, he said he liked the switch. I think some people love technology and would rather flip a switch. Whatever. So I gave him his new solenoid valve. But like posted, you will want to put a TX tank on W/H. My 2 cents worth.


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## Everflow (Feb 1, 2010)

We have put in a couple of these and they do work.


http://www.flologic.com/Automatic-Water-Shutoff-System.html


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Everflow said:


> We have put in a couple of these and they do work.
> 
> 
> http://www.flologic.com/Automatic-Water-Shutoff-System.html


The specs. state that "In the "Home" mode, the System is pre-programmed to allow up to 30 minutes of uninterrupted water flow before the shutoff valve is activated". Does that mean after if my shower exceeds 30 mins the valve will close?


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