# Do you Think My Plumbing Customers Appreciate My Stance



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

On the Subject of Wolverine Brass Products and how you cannot find them but the Plumbing Supply in the Sky?


Meaning, 

If I started to install these products, and I take a dirt nap a year later and my customers all have to find that "next" guy out of 45,

is that fair? 

Did I represent my profession, my customer base fairly? 


It's like buying that good vaccum sweeper that has all the bells and whistles, till it breaks...and then when you can't find someone to fix it or get repair parts,

you pitch it.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

If you install a product you believe in then you have served your customer well. 

In the event our customer no longer wanted to use us, I would gladly give them WB phone number so they could find any number of plumbers in this area that are selling and/or servicing WB faucets.

We hate working on Price Pfister because it's always a second trip. Far less plumbers around here have these parts on hand . . . even the specialty supplier ends up ordering them for us. The customer who had a WB faucet would have had a better chance of a plumber carrying WB parts on his truck than Price Pfister. We complain at the shop, but in front of the customer we cheerfully resolve their problem and move on to the next.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

dood, they can just order the parts from ANY plumber that deals with WB anywhere in the United states and have them UPS the parts.


IT'S NOT THAT BIG A DEAL. GET OVER IT.

Go get some sleep dood.....


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Tomorrow is another day folks,


Just give me time, TIME and I'll make this worth your time.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I don't think anybody cares. If you have a rabbit to pull out of your hat ya better be doing it. The audience is starting to quietly file out............


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

It makes me wonder why you don't stock more parts. If we ran across a valve installation which was not the norm we would make the customer buy spare repair parts and we would buy spare repair parts. It's not a lot but it builds up over time and you have a decent selection of repair parts. I once had a customer buy 10-pre-war Crane stems and he is still thanking me.

Mark


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> *It makes me wonder why you don't stock more parts.* If we ran across a valve installation which was not the norm we would make the customer buy spare repair parts and we would buy spare repair parts. It's not a lot but it builds up over time and you have a decent selection of repair parts. I once had a customer buy 10-pre-war Crane stems and he is still thanking me.
> 
> Mark


 
In the next 60 days I'm going to build a montage of video content, real customers real opinions and point blank questions and statements that tell the truth.


It's going to be a customer relations point of view of how plumbing contractor protects property owner. 

I can argue for days in a forum but when I take it to the next level, people usually cowl down and watch what they created.

Which, is proof behind my words and statements about this subject matter. Maybe it's a regional thing...


but when I hear people and their frustration, and this name (WB) has a tendency to be tied to it, with the customer exhausting countless calls to supply houses and other plumbers, someone who can fix their problem? 


That's when I come in and scold the last one who did the deed and provide them with a design that they can trust, not a company that hides behind a pow-wow 100 year old warranty that only sells to plumbers. 

I for one am smarter than that bull**** and that's not bragging. Amway written all over that design. My opinion and it won't change. 


I've been pointing this thread towards some of my customers I deal with on a regular basis. No writing style change either. They know my value and this subject matter proves it.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> In the next 60 days I'm going to build a montage of video content, real customers real opinions and point blank questions and statements that tell the truth.
> 
> 
> It's going to be a customer relations point of view of how plumbing contractor protects property owner.
> ...


Maybe it is a regional thing with Kentucky having a higher than usual amount of unscrupulous plumbing contractors. Just a thought . . . we have the obscenely high plumbing contractors and a few slick ones who use scare tactics and high pressure sale - BUT that is not the norm.

Amway - really? Comparing an American company that sells direct to the plumbing contractor in a wholesale fashion is a far cry from a multi-level marketing company. Our rep. never asked if I wanted to join the business and find others to join under me. :no:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

​


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

And I'm telling PETA! :laughing:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I said it before, I'll say it again.When you install a new faucet. 
If you or the customer is worried, about repair parts, for any reason
sell them an extra cartridge or stem, or rebuild kit, with the new faucet, so they can keep it on hand. I don't care if it's 20 yrs later, the kits will still work. They will have the numbers of kits on hand to reorder, when convenient.
If you think the washers or O rings will dry out in 20yrs, (which they won't),then atleast the HO will have the parts & numbers, on hand that they need, to bring to the nearest plumber, that handles WB, & they'll be able to easily identify the parts you need.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

So, this is what is has come down to. The great Dunbarman, is protecting his customers by limiting there choices. I have to know, do you wear these when you out saving the world, and what do you with your cape.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> I said it before, I'll say it again.When you install a new faucet.
> If you or the customer is worried, about repair parts, for any reason
> sell them an extra cartridge or stem, or rebuild kit, with the new faucet, so they can keep it on hand. I don't care if it's 20 yrs later, the kits will still work. They will have the numbers of kits on hand to reorder, when convenient.
> If you think the washers or O rings will dry out in 20yrs, (which they won't),then atleast the HO will have the parts & numbers, on hand that they need, to bring to the nearest plumber, that handles WB, & they'll be able to easily identify the parts you need.


Or buy a Delta or moen and call either on the phone and have them send your parts out.....or if its 5pm on a sunday afternoon and you need the part NOW you can go to the local hardware and pick up your parts on the way to dinner......see ya wolverine wouldn't wanna be ya. 

Selling Wolverine faucets is nothing but about taking power away from the customer. Simple as that.


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## king john (Jun 8, 2010)

You can get a bit screwed up by plumbing, but if you screw up with electricity, you can die. So electricity is worse.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Or buy a Delta or moen and call either on the phone and have them send your parts out.....or if its 5pm on a sunday afternoon and you need the part NOW you can go to the local hardware and pick up your parts on the way to dinner......see ya wolverine wouldn't wanna be ya.
> 
> Selling Wolverine faucets is nothing but about taking power away from the customer. Simple as that.



*Stock the couple of replacement cartridges; Problem solved. *Quit complaining about what others should do and stock all four yourself.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Indie said:


> *Stock the couple of replacement cartridges; Problem solved.*Quit complaining about what others should do and stock all four yourself.


Since Wolverine has a 100 year warranty.....they should give me the parts...correct?

Hey there are atleast a few hundred other faucets out there...should I buy all of their parts too so when I find the needle in the haystack I will have the right kind of thread???

Or should I just Shiot can all the faucets I find whos manufacturer likes to make life difficult and not offer their parts in supply houses or hardware stores.

I refuse to stock a part just because some big headed manufacturer decides to make somthing special and then make it HARDER to get parts.....THAT GOES FOR ALL FAUCETS...BUT WOLVERINE GOES A STEP FARTHER AND WILL NOT EVEN SELL THEIR REPAIR PRODUCTS IN A SUPPLY HOUSE.....BUT IF YOU LOOK THROUGH THEIR PRODUCTS FOR SALE...WOLVERINE DAMN SURE DOESN'T MIND SELLING OTHERS PEOPLE PRODUCTS DO THEY? HYPOCRITS


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Statistics for this thread:


10 felt overwhelmingly that I was doing the right thing,

5 did not. 


I'd say I'm pretty damn solid like an impacted bowel that the majority felt inclined to believe that playing hide the materials is not in the best interest of the customer for down the road or, at any time.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Statistics for this thread:
> 10 felt overwhelmingly that I was doing the right thing,
> 5 did not.
> 
> I'd say I'm pretty damn solid like an impacted bowel that the majority felt inclined to believe that playing hide the materials is not in the best interest of the customer for down the road or, at any time.


Are you serious? 15 responses and you come up with statistics? Whenever I read about majorities, I remember there was a time when the majority thought the earth was flat and we all know how that turned out.

Plus, your poll is flawed. I know what you were looking for, but the question is too vague to draw any conclusions from a yes/no response.

But then again, maybe you intentionally worded it that way so you would get the desired response. I guess some need a valet to their vanity rather than the truth.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*do you think my customers*

I remember words of this nature if my shop was to close tomorrow there would be no parade to bring me back. There would be no journals written they miss you or me. I could believe this poll if I knew the customers would not be influenced and guided. Take a nice Wolverine faucet and hand it to the home owner then hand them a Delta or Moen and ask him or her which one they would like installed. My customers choose Wolverine and they are provided with a choice. I am called to the customers home to install or repair why would they repair it on their own in the future? This makes no sense at all.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I may regret this but my 2 cents. Even though it weighs a lot and USA made it is not beautiful to me. I used to do new work and the need for a complete line and finish options etc etc sort of got me to like Delta. Finally Delta started to get it together and fix some of the things that were lacking..I became a fan. I know the recent changes on k/s and lav faucets are disappointing. This by itself is no reason to quit liking Delta. Wolverine is a bit harder to get and even harder to use for anything other than a chrome replacement..unless you want to stock finishes.
Its always been presented to me as a way to make more money with a proprietary faucet that no one else can get and not as a way to give the customer more choice etc. For those who sell WB "for the customers" id have to just about see a polygraph...

to be fair..not selling them to protect a customer doesnt make complete sense to me. They are one of the better not so pretty faucets out there. I personally dont want the hassle...I need a fresh motivation fix...a lot of money might cure this.

A lot of customers like to go to the big box to shop for a faucet...then I say Delta or Moen stay away from Price Pfister.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

stillaround said:


> I may regret this but my 2 cents. Even though it weighs a lot and USA made it is not beautiful to me. I used to do new work and the need for a complete line and finish options etc etc sort of got me to like Delta. Finally Delta started to get it together and fix some of the things that were lacking..I became a fan. I know the recent changes on k/s and lav faucets are disappointing. This by itself is no reason to quit liking Delta. Wolverine is a bit harder to get and even harder to use for anything other than a chrome replacement..unless you want to stock finishes.
> Its always been presented to me as a way to make more money with a proprietary faucet that no one else can get and not as a way to give the customer more choice etc. For those who sell WB "for the customers" id have to just about see a polygraph...
> 
> to be fair..not selling them to protect a customer doesnt make complete sense to me. They are one of the better not so pretty faucets out there. I personally dont want the hassle...I need a fresh motivation fix...a lot of money might cure this.


No doubt....Wolverine makes some ugly stuff....a hard sell to say the least:thumbsup:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I find it hard to believe that anyone can even get all worked up over this. It's a faucet for christs sakes. Nobody expects the damn thing to last forever, nor should it. Manufacturers sell faucets. If people keep the same faucet for 40 years the only outlet they have is new construction. So.... they all pretty much sell crap or change models and parts so that it is either impossible or too much of a pain in the ass to bother tracking down parts and everyone just gives up and buys a new one. I don't want to sell anything to anybody with a lifetime warranty on it. I sell fixtures. I make lots of money on fixtures. I don't make crap on a faucet stem.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Yeah, it's not like anyone ever died from sewer gas, or fuel gas leaks, or improper flue venting, or exploding boilers/water heaters.............O wait.......never mind



king john said:


> You can get a bit screwed up by plumbing, but if you screw up with electricity, you can die. So electricity is worse.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Oh yeah, I forgot how attractive Delta's acrylic handles were. However, millions of people had to have them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

WB is not marketed for their high end look. They are an everyday affordable, quality faucet trying to appeal to the majority.

That said, I love my Delta Victorian set-up in ORB. :yes:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Are you serious? 15 responses and you come up with statistics? Whenever I read about majorities, I remember there was a time when the majority thought the earth was flat and we all know how that turned out.
> 
> Plus, your poll is flawed. I know what you were looking for, but the question is too vague to draw any conclusions from a yes/no response.
> 
> But then again, maybe you intentionally worded it that way so you would get the desired response. I guess some need a valet to their vanity rather than the truth.










​I've seen you hop on more than one bandwagon while being here, and apparently I thought enough of you to get ya another one.


Now please! The numbers are now 13 and 6 and I will take a polygraph, along with running under my company name posting anything that suits the conversation. I'm not hiding.

Now, 

Richard? You think people are completely sold by a chunk a brass these days that compares to a pet rock in the 80's? 

People care about their product and how cheaply it costs to fix it....and they don't want to be caught in a trap when they go to have it worked on.

How many hours you got in this forum this weekend, like 34 hours? You won't fool me that logging off makes us all think you're gone. :blink:

Just like I said in the PM, you got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time to invest in saving the plumbing customer... 

We all need therapy, DAMN!!!! ​​


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> ​I've seen you hop on more than one bandwagon while being here, and apparently I thought enough of you to get ya another one.
> 
> 
> Now please! The numbers are now 13 and 6 and I will take a polygraph, along with running under my company name posting anything that suits the conversation. I'm not hiding.
> ​




Dunbar, I don't doubt for one moment that has been your experience and that of your customers. However, I suspect the customer you service is quite different from those we service.

We appeal to a different group, therefore, our experiences are different. But thank you anyway for thinking enough of me to get a pic.

Hiding? Why should you hide? Putting it all out there is part of your personality. It's who you are. In all fairness, plumbing is only a part of your equation as you run two other businesses.

I have a private life and a business life. My personal beliefs are just that. In business, my job is to cater to the customer and I am left out of that equation. It's not about me, it's about them. Six adults and 8 children count on me to remember ego has no place in running a successful business.

Like you, I have a code of ethics I operate and live by. I sleep like a baby every night. My customers are happy customers and I know I have never compromised my integrity for a sale. 

We could be selling Banner, B&K, or any number of Delta knock-offs to make a quick sale. We offer the products we feel are a good fit for everyone (industry, HO, and yes, plumbing contractor).​


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## brad7596 (Nov 1, 2008)

its easy to hide behind anonymity


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*do you think*

Thanks for keeping tabs on me this past weekend. I do think you were here with me. However I will place the Wolverine brass Essence series against Moen Chateau and Monticello and Delta 522 and 2522 any day of the week. It is a nicer looking faucet and it outperforms those four faucets.
2 handled wolverine use Moen commercial cartridges. That should limit truck stock. If fixing client’s problems is saving them I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

An example of how WB could have saved the day and how I needed saving from a customer.

Customer calls Friday afternoon with a 'sort of' emergency. Her painter discovered the drywall was wet behind tub/shower unit. Arrive in less than an hour, get her fixed up, and she wants a quote for a new lav faucet & T/S valve with trim. Oh, she wants a combination Chrome / Polished brass finish.

He checks late Friday afternoon and confirms availability with WB. It's in stock.

She calls early today and she really needs the info. ASAP because the painter wants to finish up by Weds. (For the record, I HATE being pushed when I am busy). I call for pricing on the 4" mini widespread and a deckmount faucet so that she would have options. Call her with pricing and she said to go ahead and get them. 

Let her know she will need to come by the office and approve it before I order because it is a Special Order. She wants to come by at 4:00 p.m. :furious: I was planning on leaving at 3:30 p.m.

She comes by and says to hold off on placing order because she was able to find one supplier who has that combination finish. (She already checked both Big Boxes) This is a very small supplier that does not sell much, so it is old inventory as none of the other 4 supply houses carry this finish.

"Oh, and by the way. I just want you to install the T/S valve, my contractor will install the lav. faucet." :no: Nope, sorry but we are not a reseller and cannot sell materials.

We came to her rescue, the plumber undercharged her by mistake, and she pushed to get price/availability options. Basically she wasted the time of my plumber Fri. afternoon, my time this morning & afternoon, and now she wants us on standby.

No thank you! Not all customers need rescuing. Sometimes we need to be rescued from the demanding customer who thinks our only job is to serve their needs as if we don't have other customers who are also waiting to be served.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

The trend in faucet supply has come to a waymark for me. People in general are trying to control the costs to their own hurt, but it is kind of futile to try and change it. This is I suppose a "sales" problem and in all sincerity Richard might have an angle on this. I would rather as an owner let them get their own and appeal that they not pick certain brands. I cant imagine inventorying anything for such customers as a win situation.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

stillaround said:


> The trend in faucet supply has come to a waymark for me. People in general are trying to control the costs to their own hurt, but it is kind of futile to try and change it. This is I suppose a "sales" problem and in all sincerity Richard might have an angle on this. I would rather as an owner let them get their own and appeal that they not pick certain brands. I cant imagine inventorying anything for such customers as a win situation.


I actually prefer this myself...

I like the fact that I am not guaranteeing a faucet...

As far as the endless WB debate...









I'm off to find a dead horse....:laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I kickstarted this dead horse yesterday. I'm not sure I can provoke another bump.....


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Only 32 posts..this dead horse has a long way to go to be a winner.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Only 32 posts..this dead horse has a long way to go to be a winner.


Nahhh...

It's flogged to death....:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> An example of how WB could have saved the day and how I needed saving from a customer.
> 
> Customer calls Friday afternoon with a 'sort of' emergency. Her painter discovered the drywall was wet behind tub/shower unit. Arrive in less than an hour, get her fixed up, and she wants a quote for a new lav faucet & T/S valve with trim. Oh, she wants a combination Chrome / Polished brass finish.
> 
> ...


Chrome and polished brass seems to making a comeback. I've sold a ton of the ugly stuff lately. One lady did her whole master bath in chrome/brass. 
I had them all in stock and total cost for all of them that I paid was 475.00 and I sold them for 1500.00. I had them in stock for 17 months before i sold them.

Bite the bullet and buy 10 or 15 grand worth of faucets and see if you dont sell more faucets......I sell alot of stuff because I have it NOW.....they dont have time to shop... make it too easy for them to shop.....people are sooooo lazy if you help them be lazy.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I cant bite any bullets right now...I think you are right but you lost me on 10 to 15 grand.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm inclined to agree with those who say let the customer supply it and you don't have to worry about offering any warranty on it. In the long run, the customer will spend more and we will make more.

However, we may know that leaks in the faucet are not related to the install BUT, the customer does not understand that. We changed our policy regarding plastic pop-ups for this very reason. Months later they would start to leak and the customer would argue that it was related to the way it was installed. Drips were another complaint. 'Yes, it was installed 3 mos. ago and it is dripping a lot now. It was dripping ever since you installed it, but so little that I didn't call." It's time consuming re-explaining that we only warrant the connection.

Investing $10-$15 grand in inventory for the fickle customer - I think not.:no: Trends change too much and it is a gamble.

I do agree the 'lazy' customer appreciates when you have a faucet or two on the truck. :yes:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> I'm inclined to agree with those who say let the customer supply it and you don't have to worry about offering any warranty on it. In the long run, the customer will spend more and we will make more.
> 
> However, we may know that leaks in the faucet are not related to the install BUT, the customer does not understand that. We changed our policy regarding plastic pop-ups for this very reason. Months later they would start to leak and the customer would argue that it was related to the way it was installed. Drips were another complaint. 'Yes, it was installed 3 mos. ago and it is dripping a lot now. It was dripping ever since you installed it, but so little that I didn't call." It's time consuming re-explaining that we only warrant the connection.
> 
> ...


I understand that dropping a dime on faucets doesn't sound like a great idea but it is if you buy them right. Take your time and look for deals on stuff you know you can sell sooner or later and let people know you stock faucets.. If you have money in the bank its not making anything right now anyway...invest it and give yourself a chance against inflation. 

I've had customers that have purchased faucets at the big box and want me to install it....Most cant even recall the brand they purchased when I ask. I then let them know I sell faucets and offer to bring them out when I come and see if they like my faucet because i offer a 1 year parts and labor warranty and a lifetime warranty on the faucet through Delta. I sell them one of my faucets about 90% of the time and send them back to the depot with what they bought. Having it NOW makes all the difference in the world.....it almost sells itself.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> View attachment 6426
> 
> ​I've seen you hop on more than one bandwagon while being here, and apparently I thought enough of you to get ya another one.
> 
> ...


I think you are dead wrong about this. People do not give one moments thought at all about the quality of a faucet or what it would cost to repair it some time in the future. They care about what it looks like and what it costs, the end. This is born out to be true every time I enter a home to find someone else has installed some piece of crap that looked nice and shiny on the display rack at Blowe's. If they ever even thought about the quality in the slightest, it ends with the universal "limited lifetime warranty" that virtually every manufacturer offers. It's our job as good plumbers and thinking of the ho's best interests to educate them and sell them the best quality available for the price point they can handle. So the question is, do I steer them towards Delta which is a guaranteed rebuild in 10 years or less but has readily available parts or do I sell them something that may not ever need rebuilding in their lifetime? You can find Delta parts on every street corner, that's good 'cause you're going to need them. WB parts can be had with little difficulty but yes they will do better to get them through me. Btw I've never sold or installed a WB faucet because I think they are hideous but I do believe they are as good a quality as you can find on the market today and if they would update their styling, I'd certainly give them a go.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

smellslike$tome said:


> I think you are dead wrong about this. People do not give one moments thought at all about the quality of a faucet or what it would cost to repair it some time in the future. They care about what it looks like and what it costs, the end. This is born out to be true every time I enter a home to find someone else has installed some piece of crap that looked nice and shiny on the display rack at Blowe's. If they ever even thought about the quality in the slightest, it ends with the universal "limited lifetime warranty" that virtually every manufacturer offers. It's our job as good plumbers and thinking of the ho's best interests to educate them and sell them the best quality available for the price point they can handle. So the question is, do I steer them towards Delta which is a guaranteed rebuild in 10 years or less but has readily available parts or do I sell them something that may not ever need rebuilding in their lifetime? You can find Delta parts on every street corner, that's good 'cause you're going to need them. WB parts can be had with little difficulty but yes they will do better to get them through me. Btw I've never sold or installed a WB faucet because I think they are hideous but I do believe they are as good a quality as you can find on the market today and if they would update their styling, I'd certainly give them a go.


 I have 7 Delta faucets in my home.....1 out of that 7 had to be repaired in alittle over 10 years. The parts for that repair would have been $3-4 for seats and springs....but The rep gives me box's of that stuff once a year. They take care of me:thumbsup:

You may think Delta need alot of repairs but the fact is that theres so many of them installed it only seems that way.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I have 7 Delta faucets in my home.....1 out of that 7 had to be repaired in alittle over 10 years. The parts for that repair would have been $3-4 for seats and springs....but The rep gives me box's of that stuff once a year. They take care of me:thumbsup:
> 
> You may think Delta need alot of repairs but the fact is that theres so many of them installed it only seems that way.


You make a good point, Delta is king around here.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> I think you are dead wrong about this. People do not give one moments thought at all about the quality of a faucet or what it would cost to repair it some time in the future. They care about what it looks like and what it costs, the end. This is born out to be true every time I enter a home to find someone else has installed some piece of crap that looked nice and shiny on the display rack at Blowe's. If they ever even thought about the quality in the slightest, it ends with the universal "limited lifetime warranty" that virtually every manufacturer offers. It's our job as good plumbers and thinking of the ho's best interests to educate them and sell them the best quality available for the price point they can handle. So the question is, do I steer them towards Delta which is a guaranteed rebuild in 10 years or less but has readily available parts or do I sell them something that may not ever need rebuilding in their lifetime? You can find Delta parts on every street corner, that's good 'cause you're going to need them. WB parts can be had with little difficulty but yes they will do better to get them through me. Btw I've never sold or installed a WB faucet because I think they are hideous but I do believe they are as good a quality as you can find on the market today and if they would update their styling, I'd certainly give them a go.


 
98% of my customer base has already bought a faucet. Now tell me how I'm supposed to squeeze a new faucet install out of this? 

There's one exception, 1/4 turn laundry tub faucets...I do supply them, but I don't put in maybe 5-7 a year.

Delta Tub/Shower faucets? I'm constantly supplying those most times...

everything else,,, kitchen and lav faucets...not my game.


Customers appreciate a competent service to rebuild a faucet if the cosmetics of that faucet is decent, before a replacement. I'm charging the same so it doesn't matter which I do...but I don't run around carrying inventory in faucets anymore.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Okay Plumbers,



How many of you have linked out this thread to your customer base, like I have to show the strength by numbers of what the majority feel is in the best interest of my customer base.


This past 2 weeks, I pulled out advertising in the yellow pages. I'm big enough, I'm strong enough, and dog gone it, people like me. :laughing:


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Strength by numbers?

Your pole proves nothing other than how the voters in the pole voted. 

For the record-

If you don't want to support wb products because of their "plumbers only" stance, fine. I honestly don't care.

If you think their products are ugly junk, that's fine with me. Again, don't care.

But spare me the "I'm saving my customers from opression from the evil WB" crap.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Colgar said:


> Strength by numbers?
> 
> Your pole proves nothing other than how the voters in the pole voted.
> 
> ...


How would a pole prove anything other than how the voters voted?:laughing:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I have 7 Delta faucets in my home.....1 out of that 7 had to be repaired in alittle over 10 years. The parts for that repair would have been $3-4 for seats and springs....but The rep gives me box's of that stuff once a year. They take care of me:thumbsup:
> 
> You may think Delta need alot of repairs but the fact is that theres so many of them installed it only seems that way.


I have 3 Delta 2 handle faucets in my home. 2 are minimum 13 years old (don't know exactly how old, were there when I bought the house) and the other is 4 years old. Not one problem yet. If I had rental property I would install delta 2 handle faucets, the most reliable mid range faucet on the market IMO. I can't say if the newer DTS are any good, as I've only installed about 5-6 without any issues yet. I hope they don't put the DTS in their two handle faucets.

I did replace a white Delta kitchen faucet I had a few years back. Nothing wrong with it but the finish would scratch easily and it looked like hell fast. Lesson learned, never buy a white faucet!


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> How would a pole prove anything other than how the voters voted?:laughing:


That's my point.

This pole doesn't prove Dunbar is right OR wrong.

How many different registered members come here in a days time? A week? 

How many voted?

Hardly a concensus IMO.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Has ANYONE (other than possibly Dunbar) linked this thread to a client? 

Anyone?

I'm curious.

I am of the opinion that there is not 1 person here who really gives a crap what Dunbar does. He is strictly for entertainment purposes.

I could be wrong..... It's happened before.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Matt said:


> I don't think anybody cares. If you have a rabbit to pull out of your hat ya better be doing it. The audience is starting to quietly file out............


 
933 views and growing, somebody cares



Colgar said:


> Strength by numbers?
> 
> Your pole proves nothing other than how the voters in the pole voted.
> 
> ...


 
15 represent my attitude, 9 don't. Polls mean everything, that's why they are constantly used for consensus. 





Matt said:


> Has ANYONE (other than possibly Dunbar) linked this thread to a client?
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> ...


 
I'm the same in person as I am on the computer, customers love my disabled rambo has a weight problem can't get up in the morning kinda guy, and I won't stop at one helping of sausage. :thumbsup:

I can talk about 3 rule binders, #2 pencils, Boniva and Sally Fields; I'm going to make it interesting and fact/bone finding.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

What do you know about Sally Fields. You dont have to tell me.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

stillaround said:


> What do you know about Sally Fields. You dont have to tell me.


 
I actually had a crush on Kristy McNichol back in the 70's-80's. 

Sally was 2nd in line till she got crow's feet around her eyes and started playing crazy woman on ER. 

That movie she played in with Burt Reynolds? She was hot. :laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

933 views and growing. 

People thrive on controversy. This thread doesn't get read on fact finding missions. Folks want to see who is arguing with whom.

I can't imagine many a reading this mess to make an informed decision about anything.......


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Matt said:


> 933 views and growing.
> 
> People thrive on controversy. This thread doesn't get read on fact finding missions. Folks want to see who is arguing with whom.
> 
> I can't imagine many a reading this mess to make an informed decision about anything.......


 Dont you like Sally Fields?


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Matt said:


> 933 views and growing.
> 
> People thrive on controversy. This thread doesn't get read on fact finding missions. Folks want to see who is arguing with whom.
> 
> I can't imagine many a reading this mess to make an informed decision about anything.......


Now come on, I read this to find out how not to act.

Dunbar, I hate to let you down, but many of the views have been from me to find out who is arguing or agreeing with you.

I wonder, do you spend more time here when the other forums become boring?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Dont you like Sally Fields?


I did in the 1980's. 

She was cool with "The Bandit" Not so cool spawning Forest Forest Gump............


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Matt said:


> Has ANYONE (other than possibly Dunbar) linked this thread to a client?
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> ...


Off Topic! I think you should start your own poll in a new thread with the question above. 

It could be fun . . . or maybe not.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I finally read this thread........ I give it 1 out of 10


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Dont you like Sally Fields?


Nah Back in the 80's I was probably more into....:whistling2:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Off Topic! I think you should start your own poll in a new thread with the question above.
> 
> It could be fun . . . or maybe not.


Which topic was I off of?:laughing:


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Matt said:


> Has ANYONE (other than possibly Dunbar) linked this thread to a client?
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> ...


I vote: "No, I would not expose a client or potential client to such a debacle".


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

This thread is more like a 5 or 6 ..just because you asked puts it over 4


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Wolverines look like old actresses...from the 80's. How about that Bette Davis model..or the Bancroft series..








Or not





Its really over isnt it....


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f7/faucet-craft-no-name-faucet-3981/ here is an old post I made concerning wolverine faucets mine is still working like new after I plugged the divertor hole (back flow o ring hole) on brass body of faucet with 2 part epoxy putty, something I would never do to a customer but at MY home anything goes when it finally goes out again it will be a new delta for me


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

PlumbCrazy said:


> If you install a product you believe in then you have served your customer well.
> 
> In the event our customer no longer wanted to use us, I would gladly give them WB phone number so they could find any number of plumbers in this area that are selling and/or servicing WB faucets.
> 
> We hate working on Price Pfister because it's always a second trip. Far less plumbers around here have these parts on hand . . . even the specialty supplier ends up ordering them for us. The customer who had a WB faucet would have had a better chance of a plumber carrying WB parts on his truck than Price Pfister. We complain at the shop, but in front of the customer we cheerfully resolve their problem and move on to the next.


Really? I run across price pfister more often than delta or moen where I am. I carry a good amount of price pfister stock on my van. And if I dont have it home depot has the majority of the parts I need to service them.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

tungsten plumb said:


> Really? I run across price pfister more often than delta or moen where I am. I carry a good amount of price pfister stock on my van. And if I dont have it home depot has the majority of the parts I need to service them.


Yep :yes:. This is Delta country here with Moen coming in a distant second.

As for availability at Home Depot or Lowes - we don't shop there. :no:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Wow, I've been gone for months and this kinda thread is still going on. lol.:whistling2:

:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> Wow, I've been gone for months and this kinda thread is still going on. lol.:whistling2:
> 
> :laughing:


Great!
It had gone 5 days without a reply and some idiot has to step in and bump it!

Thanks for nuthin Chris...:laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

18 to 12,

Majority still realize it's a shady move to push customers in a corner and have to find out someone put profits as top priority on a part. 


Regarding WB products....


I don't take issue with their valves and stops, just anything they refuse to sell at a supply house, or big box store that I can't readily go and get parts for. 

I'm not playing that retarded game buying up materials that randomly come my way, to their benefit just to fall into that same F'd up design. 

My customers who read this thread have stamped a lot of plumbers, devious.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I actually had a crush on Kristy McNichol back in the 70's-80's.


Me too. Did she turn out to be Lebanese?


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Dunbar, You need one of these...


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Is that catalog from 1982?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*21 saying I did the right thing*
*12 saying I didn't, and I bet they all have a cozy relationship with Wolverine Brass.*




*I WIN ON THE INTERNET! *


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> *21 saying I did the right thing*
> *12 saying I didn't, and I bet they all have a cozy relationship with Wolverine Brass.*
> 
> 
> ...


 
You sir, are delusional. What did you win? How about some self respect? Good thing that wasn't a real scientific poll, you might have actually learned something. Wonder what is next, guess I will just have to wait for the next poll with limited questions.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Indie said:


> You sir, are delusional. What did you win? How about some self respect? Good thing that wasn't a real scientific poll, you might have actually learned something. Wonder what is next, guess I will just have to wait for the next poll with limited questions.


I dont need a scientific poll....Locking yourself or your customer into wolverine brass is not a wise thing to do over the long haul. Simple as that and I dont need to explain it. You need to apologize to the duck for being disrespectful.......He's right about wolverine even if he does use a bit of drama to expose it.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Indie said:


> You sir, are delusional. What did you win? How about some self respect? Good thing that wasn't a real scientific poll, you might have actually learned something. Wonder what is next, guess I will just have to wait for the next poll with limited questions.


 

Ever notice that you're always following my lead? You have a tendency to follow...


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Ever notice that you're always following my lead? You have a tendency to follow...


Its called updates. I get on the computer several times a day, and I look for threads I want to respond to. You happen to bring out the best in me, so I guess I do follow sometimes. But, give me credit, I lead the way with the thread on Wolverine Brass. I do have a question for you and TM. Why keep talking about Wolverine Brass, I thought this subject was dead?


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

:whistling2: The poll question NEVER even mentioned WB . . . product choices are always good. Offering too many choices is silly as most will get overwhelmed.

Therefore, the poll proves absolutely nothing regarding WB. 

Don't you realize you pay more for readily available parts? Delta has to pay for a ton a advertising to sell to the general public, then they have to add something for their reps. to sell it to the supply houses, the supply houses have to get their cut, the plumber has to get his cut . . . seems like too many in the daisy chain to me.

When a supplier comes along and will offer every plumber a great product at a great price, I call that a win! Try to buy direct from Delta and ask them for the Lowes discount. :laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*I WIN CHEEZEBURGER ON THE INTERNET!!!!!*


Funny how every poll had relevance on here till I posted mine. Uh-huh.


I don't make this up folks, _people don't like deception._


_I freaking hate laptop computers _


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

You win a WB full line catalog...I've got 2....What's your address?


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