# Homeowner not paying



## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

We finished a new well pump, raised the casing, new pipe and wire, from the house to the pump. The homeowner giving me the run around. Total price $2800.00. I can't believe it, that price is so low and he's still arguing the price.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

See how he comes around as you start removing it.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

C.O.D 

In my area if I install something and they refuse to pay while I am still there I can remove it. If I leave and send them a bill and they refuse to pay then it gets more complicated. 

Depends on your area, but talk to your city attorney about filing theft of services charges and throw his ass in jail.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

It was my fault. I gave him the price half way into the job. I should of known better. He's was a church friend. Funny because he was just telling me he spent $800 on two tires for his BMW. And he's *****ing about my price


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

vinpadalino said:


> It was my fault. I gave him the price half way into the job. I should of known better. He's was a church friend. Funny because he was just telling me he spent $800 on two tires for his BMW. And he's *****ing about my price


I am a Christian and have nothing but respect for the Lord, but many times people use Christ as an excuse to get a discount. Sorry I don't see that being a Christian gives you the right to highly discounted service. Preachers are the worst offenders, unfortunately. :furious:


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Did he agree to the price even half way through? Did you get it signed? Threaten a lien on his house. Tell him it is Gods will to sue his ass!


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

When they start to bring religion in to our services as a plumber. They lose my attention and I don't discount. I also have found that people that call you from your church are the worse!! Try to make you feel like your stealing them blind. But brag how much god has given them. Sorry I don't play those games and doubt god would either. If hey can afford a BMW they can pay the bill. If they are driving a junker car and barely making it. Then yes I will help them for little to no money. That I believe is what is Christian like to do.


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## SHAUN C (Feb 16, 2011)

Let me guess, he wants parts and labor breakdown on the bill...


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

SHAUN C said:


> Let me guess, he wants parts and labor breakdown on the bill...


Yup. I gave him one too. Just because I did the job so cheap. Labor about 1300. I paid my help for 3 days. The rest was mine its about 300 a day. This will be my last time to work at his house


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

He didn't say no to the price. Just that it was high. I dropped the ball on this job when it came to the business side of it. I was to busy with the job. No signature. Another lesson learned the hard way. But I will get my money


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

go out there on a sunday morning while he is at church and pull the pump....:thumbup:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> We finished a new well pump, raised the casing, new pipe and wire, from the house to the pump. The homeowner giving me the run around. Total price $2800.00. I can't believe it, that price is so low and he's still arguing the price.


Too fookin cheap...


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Give him the invoice with this written on the bottom. 


Romans 13:8 ESV

Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Or this

1 Timothy 5:8 ESV

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Or this

Proverbs 14:23 ESV

In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.

Or this

Psalm 37:21 ESV 

The wicked borrows but does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and gives;


A Christian is EXPECTED to pay his or her legitimate bills.


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## PlumbDumber (Aug 7, 2013)

I like that idea LETTERRIP. But he should have the bill handed to him at church in front of the entire congregation.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Funny responses but punishing someone for being a douche only makes you look bad. I have also learned the hard way that all customers have to be treated equally. As in equal customer service and professionalism. I am sure from now on you will always secure the price up front, no matter the customer, and get a signature before doing the work so the mid job awkwardness is eliminated but for now don't let his arrogance and lack of concern about your value and expertise make you angry or forget that you are the professional and worth every penny.

I don't say much at first when noticeably wealthy people, or anyone for that matter, complain about the price after I quote it. I just wait and see what the say after their initial sticker shock of what a highly skilled plumber costs to diagnose and fix their issue properly and warranty it afterwards. I stay calm and wait. If they ask if that's the best I can do I say, yes it is. If they ask why is it so much or why are we so high, I say, "In order for me to provide the level of service that I do and for you to have a sober, knowledgeable, licensed and insured plumber come out that has the parts and skills to deal with any problem that comes my way, I have to charge a certain price to make this profitable. For this job that price is X." Depending on their response from there I have a pretty good honest and polite answer for most anything. If they flat out refuse than I politely say OK and sorry we couldn't come to an agreement. 

My best customers are blue collar middle to lower class folks. They rarely complain about the price because they know what good work costs. I get the most price disputes from the wealthy and I think that is because they often feel like if you don't have a degree than you aren't worth much. Doctors can be the absolute worst. Also, often they will respond to me with, "My lawn guy said he could fix it for $50 and you're charging $275?!?". "Yes, i am." And I leave it at that. I don't need to explain to that type of person why I charge what I charge. It would be a waste of time, anyhow. They live on a different plane of existence. 

Main thing is I try to never allow a customer's anger, frustration, or problems to affect me negatively or make me forget that I am running a business. That is their issue, not mine.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Letterrip said:


> Give him the invoice with this written on the bottom.
> 
> Romans 13:8 ESV
> 
> ...


Quote worth re-quoting. ^^^^


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

vinpadalino said:


> He didn't say no to the price. Just that it was high. I dropped the ball on this job when it came to the business side of it. I was to busy with the job. No signature. Another lesson learned the hard way. But I will get my money


I guess i am an idiot, but i have never in 12 years of business had a customer sign before I started a job, not even new construction. I have never had any problems getting my money. On small jobs with invoices under $250.00, I rarely even state how much the bill will be before I begin. I have only had a few people ever try and balk on a bill. I am sure I am over due for a major screwing, but i am a old fashioned hand shake business man, it's worked for me.

Also, I rarely give written estimates, I just verbally tell them how much. I was born in Toledo, Ohio, If I would try and do business like that there, I would be screwed over constantly, just i different world here in Tennessee.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

tnplumber said:


> I guess i am an idiot, but i have never in 12 years of business had a customer sign before I started a job, not even new construction. I have never had any problems getting my money. On small jobs with invoices under $250.00, I rarely even state how much the bill will be before I begin. I have only had a few people ever try and balk on a bill. I am sure I am over due for a major screwing, but i am a old fashioned hand shake business man, it's worked for me.
> 
> Also, I rarely give written estimates, I just verbally tell them how much. I was born in Toledo, Ohio, If I would try and do business like that there, I would be screwed over constantly, just i different world here in Tennessee.


A signed agreement/contract is how the customer and you communicate. Just because you have not had any problems _yet_, does not mean it cannot happen. Odds are, it's bound to happen sooner or later. 

If a customer decides they don't want to pay me, that is fine. I'll just place a LEIN on their property, dial up my lawyer and begin the process. When the LEIN is placed on the location of service, it results in the customer virtually begging to pay you.

The State of Michigan protects the customer very well, but I give them credit, they protect the Contractor, too.


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

Triplecrown24 said:


> A signed agreement/contract is how the customer and you communicate. Just because you have not had any problems _yet_, does not mean it cannot happen. Odds are, it's bound to happen sooner or later.
> 
> If a customer decides they don't want to pay me, that is fine. I'll just place a LEIN on their property, dial up my lawyer and begin the process. When the LEIN is placed on the location of service, it results in the customer virtually begging to pay you.
> 
> The State of Michigan protects the customer very well, but I give them credit, they protect the Contractor, too.


Like I said, I will get screwed sooner or later, but so will all of you. I sure it would be better to have a contract, but not my style.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I do everything in writing and with signatures and still I get hosed by professional customers.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> I do everything in writing and with signatures and still I get hosed by professional customers.


Yup. That's the biz, Biz.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

tnplumber said:


> Like I said, I will get screwed sooner or later, but so will all of you. I sure it would be better to have a contract, but not my style.


 As long as I have a signed contract, I am good. Let them not pay. It takes me about 30 minutes to place the Lein. Once that is placed, it is a nightmare for the customer from there out. I had a customer test those waters once with me and in a few short days, he was begging me to pick up my payment in cash. When someone messes with my money, they're messing with my family and myself. That is a huge mistake.

All my contracts require signatures acknowledging a Lein will be placed for delayed or non payment. The signature also acknowledges price, payment schedule, terms and job description. 

It's too bad your sitting back, anticipating non payment. I am old fashioned too, but the handshake days are over and have been for a long time.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

I talked with HO. He said by Tuesday I will get paid. We will see. 
He was shocked about getting paid after the job was done. He said you need the money that bad. 
I said yes I live pay check to pay check. Unbelievable. It's hard to give exact price on well jobs. You don't know what's under ground.


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

vinpadalino said:


> I talked with HO. He said by Tuesday I will get paid. We will see.
> He was shocked about getting paid after the job was done. He said you need the money that bad.
> I said yes I live pay check to pay check. Unbelievable. It's hard to give exact price on well jobs. You don't know what's under ground.


Really hope it all works out for you. Keep us updated please.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

M80 down the well lol


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

Triplecrown24 said:


> As long as I have a signed contract, I am good. Let them not pay. It takes me about 30 minutes to place the Lein. Once that is placed, it is a nightmare for the customer from there out. I had a customer test those waters once with me and in a few short days, he was begging me to pick up my payment in cash. When someone messes with my money, they're messing with my family and myself. That is a huge mistake.
> 
> All my contracts require signatures acknowledging a Lein will be placed for delayed or non payment. The signature also acknowledges price, payment schedule, terms and job description.
> 
> It's too bad your sitting back, anticipating non payment. I am old fashioned too, but the handshake days are over and have been for a long time.


Well, in the area where I work, I have about five competitors for this county of about 52,000 people. Not one of them make anyone sign anything contract-wise for service work. We rarely ever have any franchises work this area. So things like flat rate, sign before you start work, etc. is completely foreign to these people. I grew up in Ohio and lived there until I was 25. I have family in Michigan. The people in rural Tennessee area are just wired differently. They would be very suspicious of anyone making them sign anything. I am glad that your system works for you, and see the benefits of it. It just wouldn't work for me. Several companies, such as Mr. Rooter and Roto Rooter have tried (and failed) to implement those sort of business tactics, here without much success. A signed contract is not required here to put a lien on someone and win a judgement. Non-payment has just never been an issue in my 12 years of business. In fact I have only had two bounced checks (both of which I collected on) in that same amount of time I have been in business and I average 3-4 service calls a day. Absolutely not trying to make an argument just my 2 cents.


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> I do everything in writing and with signatures and still I get hosed by professional customers.


hosed, lol. I love that saying.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Ok true story. Back in the mid 80's we did a remodel job and the customer had not paid my boss after the job was done maybe 3 months or so. 

He took me and another guy to his house and asked us to stand outside. He came back with cash in hand. I asked him what was that all about. He told us that he pointed his finger to us and said, "see those guys there? They haven't got paid either. I don't think they will be happy if I go back empty handed." 

Guy paid in full all cash.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

MTDUNN said:


> Ok true story. Back in the mid 80's we did a remodel job and the customer had not paid my boss after the job was done maybe 3 months or so.
> 
> He took me and another guy to his house and asked us to stand outside. He came back with cash in hand. I asked him what was that all about. He told us that he pointed his finger to us and said, "see those guys there? They haven't got paid either. I don't think they will be happy if I go back empty handed."
> 
> Guy paid in full all cash.


Glad he got his money. That could have easily put you guys in danger or an odd situation if the guy calls the cops.


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## Plumb26 (May 18, 2013)

vinpadalino said:


> I talked with HO. He said by Tuesday I will get paid. We will see.
> He was shocked about getting paid after the job was done. He said you need the money that bad.
> I said yes I live pay check to pay check. Unbelievable. It's hard to give exact price on well jobs. You don't know what's under ground.


Easy to give a price if you figure on replacing it all!


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

To each his own, but I'm kinda shocked some plumbers don't at least give an estimate of the cost of a job. As consumers we are trained to know the cost of what we purchase, i.e. restaurant menus, grocery stores, cable, department stores, gas stations, etc. As customers we are trained to ask one question - How much does it cost? As plumbers, it's just plain professional & credible to give a price or at least a estimate on the range of the price to show you are an expert. The price doesn't matter to the consumer if insurance is picking up the tab, as in going to the doctor. But if you expect. Payment at the end of the job then give a price or estimate upfront, preferable written.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Well I got paid. Very weird though. In one hand he was complaining about the price, in the other hand he wanted everything brand new. We will agree to disagree.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> Well I got paid. Very weird though. In one hand he was complaining about the price, in the other hand he wanted everything brand new. We will agree to disagree.


 







Good news. 

Do you do any work in Orange county NY?


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

I was out in Washingtonville and Chester last week. I have a boiler estimate in walden next Friday.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> I was out in Washingtonville and Chester last week. I have a boiler estimate in walden next Friday.


 







I was just up in Orange county last week. Harriman to be exact. I take the Palisades Pkwy upto Route 6, then go over the mountain to Harriman.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Nice. That's a new area for me. I just started to advertise there. So far so good.


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