# Meter Room with 4" RPZ



## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

I hate that I couldn't get Green Strut feet.


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## PlumbDumber (Aug 7, 2013)

Lookin Gooood !! :thumbsup:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Here's a 3"


I like the soldered joints. Looks good man


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Here's a 3" I like the soldered joints. Looks good man


Is that all bolt flange?


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

If memory serves me right that Watts should be about 54" E-E............Sometime in a couple of months we'll have an 8" one to do.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Flyout95 said:


> Is that all bolt flange?


Yes. 3". On a galvanized line feed then stainless on out let side It was for chill water make up


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

leakfree said:


> If memory serves me right that Watts should be about 54" E-E............Sometime in a couple of months we'll have an 8" one to do.



I love Mechanical rooms... I wish I could do just mechanical rooms.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Yes. 3". On a galvanized line feed then stainless on out let side It was for chill water make up



That's good work. I remember the first time I did Flange they told me to "Two-Hole" it... I thought you just needed 2 bolts. Oops.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Lol. I told another plumber that. He said what ?? 

Thanks


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

What?? 

No really edumacate me cause I don't know what it means either lol.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

JWBII said:


> What?? No really edumacate me cause I don't know what it means either lol.


You lever off two holes on every flange. That way it doesn't look like a soup sandwich installed by a monkey fuc&ing a football.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Flyout95 said:


> You lever off two holes on every flange. That way it doesn't look like a soup sandwich installed by a monkey fuc&ing a football.


You put two bolts through the top two flange holes, then set your torpedo level on them. If you get the flanges square, then when you bolt everything up, it is automatically square and plumb. In theory, it's great. But one time at a water park in Kankakee, we two holed everything and then when all the filters arrived, they were stainless, and usually had a spinning flange, the flanges were welded and the Chinese guys hadn't two holed them. They were tilted about 10 degrees and then the pumps had to be installed crooked. When the superintendent saw it, he went nuts! We almost got ran before we could explain. What an eyesore!


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

422 plumber said:


> You put two bolts through the top two flange holes, then set your torpedo level on them. If you get the flanges square, then when you bolt everything up, it is automatically square and plumb. In theory, it's great. But one time at a water park in Kankakee, we two holed everything and then when all the filters arrived, they were stainless, and usually had a spinning flange, the flanges were welded and the Chinese guys hadn't two holed them. They were tilted about 10 degrees and then the pumps had to be installed crooked. When the superintendent saw it, he went nuts! We almost got ran before we could explain. What an eyesore!


thats why you always tack the final connection on steel and dry fit copper.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

wyrickmech said:


> thats why you always tack the final connection on steel and dry fit copper.


It was schedule 80 PVC. Most of the time the flanges are spinners, but this batch were the fixed variety.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

422 plumber said:


> It was schedule 80 PVC. Most of the time the flanges are spinners, but this batch were the fixed variety.


even so it is a cardinal rule never assume the flange is straight or square. Don't take this the wrong way I had to learn the hard way on this one myself. It was a muffler off of a fairly good sized generator,I assumed it would be square and it wasn't 16deg off what made it bad was I had welded up the piece of 12 inch assuming that it would be square ,two days later after working my tail off I had it corrected. So never again will I make that mistake.


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## PlumbDumber (Aug 7, 2013)

I had never heard of the expression "two hole it". We always just called it "squaring it up".


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

We've used the phrase for the guy's bringing in a larger service into a building,two hole it so the flange is squared off to the wall and then everything lines up nice and parallel


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

You two hole a 150# flange and turn it on a 45 degree you will be bolting your valve on crooked...

Made that mistake on 18" before as well. 300# works out, 150s don't.


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## plumbing ninja (Jan 15, 2012)

Do those RPZ drain assys really work?

We've always had them flood so we usually oversize the drains and pipework to compensate?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumbing ninja said:


> Do those RPZ drain assys really work? We've always had them flood so we usually oversize the drains and pipework to compensate?


on larger jobs I have installed watts pressure regulators that have a solenoid that shuts the water flow down when receiving a signal from a flow switch on the drain on the backflow.


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## SyrPlumber (Oct 14, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> on larger jobs I have installed watts pressure regulators that have a solenoid that shuts the water flow down when receiving a signal from a flow switch on the drain on the backflow.


Thanks


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## plumbarius (Aug 19, 2013)

A flange has many dimensions. The most critical is the "length" of the flange. This dimension will vary with each type of flange and will be covered in the section below covering Flange Types. 
All other dimensions for a flange will normally be the same across all flange types but will vary with each flange rating.

These common dimensions include: 
o Flange Outside Diameter
o Flange Thickness
o Bolt Circle
o Number of Bolts
o Bolt Hole Size
o Bolt Size

Bolt Hole Location:
The ASME B16.5 has a standard for bolt holes that are used by all (US) manufacturers for flange sizes up through 24" For instance; the number of bolt holes required varies with the size and rating of the flange. But the number and size is the same no matter the type of flange. The bolt holes are evenly spaced around the flange on a concentric bolt circle. There will always be an even number of bolt holes, in graduations of 4 (i.e., 4, 8, 12, 16, etc.). 
Unless specifically noted otherwise by the piping designer (and then only if for good reason) all flange bolt holes shall straddle the "natural" centerlines. This is the flange bolt hole orientation rule. This "natural" centerline rule for flange is known, understood and followed by all responsible equipment manufacturers and pipe fabricators. 

The rule is as follows: 
o For a vertical flange face (the flange face in vertical and the line is horizontal) the bolt holes shall be oriented to straddle the vertical and horizontal centerlines.
o For a horizontal flange face (the flange face is horizontal and the line is vertical up or vertical down) the bolt holes shall be oriented to straddle the (plant) north/south centerlines.

Care must be taken to check all equipment vendor outlines to identify any flange orientations that do not match this rule. When an exception is found the vendor can be requested to change his bolt hole orientation. This is not always successful and if not then the piping designer must insure that the piping fabrication documents call for the correct orientation. 
This rule of bolt holes straddling the natural centerlines is sometimes referred to as "Two-Hole" the flange. This means that the two of the holes straddle the centerline. To "One-Hole" a flange means that the flange has been rotated so that one hole is right on the natural centerline. I assure you that 99.999% of the time that to "One Hole" a flange is a mistake and will add cost to the field. It also makes the piping foreman very unhappy.


Just some F.Y.I.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

It's an app for my phone.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumbarius said:


> A flange has many dimensions. The most critical is the "length" of the flange. This dimension will vary with each type of flange and will be covered in the section below covering Flange Types. All other dimensions for a flange will normally be the same across all flange types but will vary with each flange rating. These common dimensions include: o Flange Outside Diameter o Flange Thickness o Bolt Circle o Number of Bolts o Bolt Hole Size o Bolt Size Bolt Hole Location: The ASME B16.5 has a standard for bolt holes that are used by all (US) manufacturers for flange sizes up through 24" For instance; the number of bolt holes required varies with the size and rating of the flange. But the number and size is the same no matter the type of flange. The bolt holes are evenly spaced around the flange on a concentric bolt circle. There will always be an even number of bolt holes, in graduations of 4 (i.e., 4, 8, 12, 16, etc.). Unless specifically noted otherwise by the piping designer (and then only if for good reason) all flange bolt holes shall straddle the "natural" centerlines. This is the flange bolt hole orientation rule. This "natural" centerline rule for flange is known, understood and followed by all responsible equipment manufacturers and pipe fabricators. The rule is as follows: o For a vertical flange face (the flange face in vertical and the line is horizontal) the bolt holes shall be oriented to straddle the vertical and horizontal centerlines. o For a horizontal flange face (the flange face is horizontal and the line is vertical up or vertical down) the bolt holes shall be oriented to straddle the (plant) north/south centerlines. Care must be taken to check all equipment vendor outlines to identify any flange orientations that do not match this rule. When an exception is found the vendor can be requested to change his bolt hole orientation. This is not always successful and if not then the piping designer must insure that the piping fabrication documents call for the correct orientation. This rule of bolt holes straddling the natural centerlines is sometimes referred to as "Two-Hole" the flange. This means that the two of the holes straddle the centerline. To "One-Hole" a flange means that the flange has been rotated so that one hole is right on the natural centerline. I assure you that 99.999% of the time that to "One Hole" a flange is a mistake and will add cost to the field. It also makes the piping foreman very unhappy. Just some F.Y.I.


even use the term one hole around us will get you instantly fired. The last connection needs to be fit in place to make sure that everything is square. Two hole is a term that is used when using two of the holes to square the flange so that what ever you are bolting on to it is at right angles! In other words 0 ,45, 90,135,180,225 ,270,315and 360 which is really 0. The angles in between are odd and only get used in odd conditions


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> It's an app for my phone.


what is the name of the app looks like a time saver


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

" Two Hole It "

I thought you are talking about the shocker !:laughing::laughing:


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## plumbing ninja (Jan 15, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> on larger jobs I have installed watts pressure regulators that have a solenoid that shuts the water flow down when receiving a signal from a flow switch on the drain on the backflow.


If this is a pilot operated PRV & solenoid I prefer to plumb the pilots myself or instruct the supplier how I want it configured! I'll request a needle vlv or orifice restrictor in the sensor line be fitted to slow the closure down and reduce water hammer when the contact from flow switch completes the circuit.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumbing ninja said:


> If this is a pilot operated PRV & solenoid I prefer to plumb the pilots myself or instruct the supplier how I want it configured! I'll request a needle vlv or orifice restrictor in the sensor line be fitted to slow the closure down and reduce water hammer when the contact from flow switch completes the circuit.


water hammer at the time of activation is irrelevant it is only for emergency shut down and it does have a orifice restrict or in the pilot line.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

wyrickmech said:


> what is the name of the app looks like a time saver


.....


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> .....


You're giving all our secrets away.:laughing:


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## plumbing ninja (Jan 15, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> water hammer at the time of activation is irrelevant it is only for emergency shut down and it does have a orifice restrict or in the pilot line.


It's not irrelevant if your upstream on a dead leg mains.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumbing ninja said:


> It's not irrelevant if your upstream on a dead leg mains.


the valve will not close fast enough to cause a serous hammer when the solenoid closes the pressure bleeds off and the valve closes at the rate of the pressure drop. I have witnessed a 6in close with a incoming pressure of 105 psi and there were no issues.


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## plumbing ninja (Jan 15, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> the valve will not close fast enough to cause a serous hammer when the solenoid closes the pressure bleeds off and the valve closes at the rate of the pressure drop. I have witnessed a 6in close with a incoming pressure of 105 psi and there were no issues.


Hmmm interesting! We've had a solenoid on the same mains close rapidly n send a wave back up the dead leg! It hits the non return in the mains compresses the air and bounces back causing chaos for all! 
As u said if it closes slow enough it shouldn't cause probs. Some outfit here will only use a handwheel operated vlv or motorised b/flys


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumbing ninja said:


> Hmmm interesting! We've had a solenoid on the same mains close rapidly n send a wave back up the dead leg! It hits the non return in the mains compresses the air and bounces back causing chaos for all! As u said if it closes slow enough it shouldn't cause probs. Some outfit here will only use a handwheel operated vlv or motorised b/flys


I could see where the motorized butterfly could cause great havoc the flow rate does not start dropping until about 75% closure and then it drops like a rock.


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