# Holmes on Homes



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Mike Holmes is cool. I like to watch this program. My problem is he always razz's all the trades. Since this is a plumbing forum I will stick to the plumbing aspect. I just think that all that BS and razzing about how the plumbers screwed up gives HO's the wrong impression. It would not be so bad if he did not word it quite like he does. Makes us sound like idiots all the time.


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## threaderman (Jun 17, 2008)

He knows carpentry .I've seen his plumber do illegal tie-ins so I don't watch the guys show.I watch very few for that reason,I see what in my area is illegal and I start to yell at the TV,it's not worth it.Flippers are the worst,make it look pretty by masking larger problems.Gotta go to church now.


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## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

there are alot of scabby ass plumbers though. so i believe it. i see guys at work everyday do bad stuff for whatever reason.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Kyle said:


> there are alot of scabby ass plumbers though. so i believe it. i see guys at work everyday do bad stuff for whatever reason.


Yup, they are everywhere. We have one at our shop, he knows better but just doesn't care.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Mike is pretty cool ,,,, but SSSOOO COCKY !! Like he is the 
ONLY one that knows anything !

Cal


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

The guy is living the dream. Try to do construction where you don't have to deal with the customers wants and budget. He gets a screwed up house and gets to fix it the way he wants to without worrying about anything that the rest of us deal with.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

I watch it all the time and I laugh at some of the things he does to try to make people look bad, or they didn't do enough he goes on about how code only calls for 2x4 or 2x6 so I'm gonna use 2x8 or 2x10 when home owners watch they don't realise the job was speced for 2x4 or 2x6 and if they actually used they there price would near double. Just realise its TV though so thats why they show all this bad and shoddy work to get viewers you will never see tradesmen that know more or are better then him (which there always is)


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*PRO: He raises the bar for builders & remodelers, enlightens homeowners to expect more.*

*CON: His cocky attitude tends to run off as an industry standard, not good for the image.*

*I don't watch because he's annoying.*


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I watched it once or, twice then watched his plumber install an all plastic closet flange before they put down the thick tile floor....

Yea do it right!

Spare me....:whistling2:


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## I'mYourTourGuide (Jun 23, 2008)

Redwood said:


> I watched it once or, twice then watched his plumber install an all plastic closet flange before they put down the thick tile floor....
> 
> Yea do it right!
> 
> Spare me....:whistling2:


 
Lmao


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## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

like you said anything to raise the standerds bar though because alot of it is not applied beyond paper


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

threaderman said:


> He knows carpentry .I've seen his plumber do illegal tie-ins so I don't watch the guys show.I watch very few for that reason,I see what in my area is illegal and I start to yell at the TV,it's not worth it.Flippers are the worst,make it look pretty by masking larger problems.Gotta go to church now.


Can you tell us some details about these illegal tie in's? I also assume you have explicit knowledge of Canadian/Ontario Plumbing codes?


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

Cal said:


> Mike is pretty cool ,,,, but SSSOOO COCKY !! Like he is the
> ONLY one that knows anything !
> 
> Cal


CAn you give some examples of where he is being CAWKY?

I must say I don't think he's cawky, I think he's confident. If you had 2 contractors providing equal prices and one sounded more confident in his or her work I'm sure we all know which one you would pick. It's especially satisfying that a pro can not only do the work but understands the codes and he understands why they are there and how they came about, and he can break it down and explain it all to you in plain english. 

I also appreciate his pride in being a professional. I really think that with the advent of the "trades boom" where I live where all these people are trying to cash in on there being a shortage of skilled workers due to the retiring baby boomers, that this is something that is really missing in todays world.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Scott K said:


> Can you tell us some details about these illegal tie in's? I also assume you have explicit knowledge of Canadian/Ontario Plumbing codes?





Scott K said:


> CAn you give some examples of where he is being CAWKY?
> 
> I must say I don't think he's cawky, I think he's confident. If you had 2 contractors providing equal prices and one sounded more confident in his or her work I'm sure we all know which one you would pick. It's especially satisfying that a pro can not only do the work but understands the codes and he understands why they are there and how they came about, and he can break it down and explain it all to you in plain english.
> 
> I also appreciate his pride in being a professional. I really think that with the advent of the "trades boom" where I live where all these people are trying to cash in on there being a shortage of skilled workers due to the retiring baby boomers, that this is something that is really missing in todays world.


 
Welcome to the board Mr. Holmes:laughing::jester:


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

I wish I could say I was Mr. Holmes because then I wouldn't probably be here. But in all honesty I take his show differently then you guys do. I take the way his show is portrayed as a challenge to learn everything and anything I can in my trade to help myself be more of a professional, and to help convey confidence to the homeowner, who in turn instill their trust in me. Because I think Mike is a pretty knowledgeable guy who I know if I was a home owner and he was on my project I would trust him. 
While the pay is great, I also get a kick out of getting paid to do quality work for people. I always look for ways to improve my installations, make them last longer, be more durable, and overall look great. To know not just where the pipes go but why they are arranged in that fashion. An to be able to understand not just what codes govern me but also why they govern what I'm doing. 

That is why I use resources such as this discussion board - to get better, and learn more. And guys like Mr. Holmes have in a sense created a challenge not just to home owners to do their research, but to other tradesman to try and be the guys these researchers find. To be one of the "good" and not "the bad" or "the ugly." 

Tradesmen are often perceived as people who smoke, drink, and do drugs and who do dirty, stinky hard work, and I think his show, attaches more prestige to trades than is commonly believed. It shows a bunch of guys who care not just about their work but about the customer. 

I find it ironic that people on here are so threatened by him and his apparent "cawky" attitude, when in reality he is encouraging people to find ways to look for good, hard working, honest tradesman out there. The only people I could see being threatened by him are hacks - are you a hack?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I have never even seen the show. But, I like what you have to say about yourself and our trade. I agree 100% with always wanting to improve.

I'll have to search it in the Tivo.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I so enjoy the DIY shows. They make me laugh. Holmes is real quick to say a plumber did this or that wrong. 
Well we all know home owners are real quick to say no to what we all say needs to be done. He doesn't point that out. I have been told more than a few times "Well the last guy just patched it" "What the other plumber put the roofing tar on that?" I know they are mostly talking about a Handyman or them selves.


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## Pipemaster (Jul 29, 2008)

*CONFIDENT OR COCKY ?*

*Look the reality of every job is there are 500 and half dozen ways to do a job, **everyone has a method they prefer or like better,*
*ask four plumbers for an opinion you'll get 4 different opinions.*

*what I dont like about the guy is he thinks his way is the only way and the best way, on several shows i can find moderate to severe bad ideas but what the hell they pay for the show and materials so let them make the mistakes and figure it out themselves. *

*the guy has some good idea's and some real quacks he subs out to it's entertainment for christsakes.*

*But i'll be dam imagine the liability policy the discovery channel must have eh ?*


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

yeah scottk has the right idea. its all about getting the best product to that customer, and keep learning every day. plumbing has advanced more in the past 25 years than it has since the romans. and its our job to weed through the bs find the best product and bring our a-game to install it. and while i dont agree w/ every word mike holmes says, i like his attitude. customer first, well trained techs, and always remember no inspector can fail your job for doing it better than code states.


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

patrick88 said:


> I so enjoy the DIY shows. They make me laugh. Holmes is real quick to say a plumber did this or that wrong.
> Well we all know home owners are real quick to say no to what we all say needs to be done. He doesn't point that out. I have been told more than a few times "Well the last guy just patched it" "What the other plumber put the roofing tar on that?" I know they are mostly talking about a Handyman or them selves.


When he points out that a plumber is wrong - since the codes he is basing his points are the same codes I work by (Canada comes out with a new National Code every 5-8 years and then each province adopts it with amendments - the most recent Canadian plumbing code was so good and all encompassing that each Canadian province had very few amendments before they adopted it as their provincial code a year or two after), I have yet to see a situation where he isn't right. How else do you want him to point it out? "Oh the Poor PLumber (or more correctly probably not a licensed plumber, but a hack) was having a bad day and didn't know his code and needed a hug?"

And yes - you have a point. There are all sorts of scenarios out there where people are ripped off, and you can clearly see they either didn't do their homework, or when they heard the ultra cheap bid which was more than likely a hack, they could only think of their pocket book and not the fact that the other 3 bids were all within a few hundred of each other and more expensive than that one bid. But a lot of the people Mike chooses to renovate aren't all these scenarios but hacks who bid similarly to the professional. The message on Mikes show to homeowners is to do your research and actually go out and physically look at previous work by the guy. His show is also aimed at trying to create more rules in place to protect homeowners and go after crooks who are under contract to do said work but who are really just hacks who shouldn't have started their own company. In this case these are just civil matters technically but when you see some of the work they you think in your head it shouldn't be civil but a felony. Mike's mission as I perceive it is all about weeding out the hacks - making it tougher for them to operate. If he seems cawky for this attitude, how else would you suggest to go about it? There is no way to say it then the way he says it. You can't cover it this type of sentiment with hugs and kisses. And ultimately weeding out the hacks makes things better for us.


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

Pipemaster said:


> *CONFIDENT OR COCKY ?*
> 
> *Look the reality of every job is there are 500 and half dozen ways to do a job, **everyone has a method they prefer or like better,*
> *ask four plumbers for an opinion you'll get 4 different opinions.*
> ...


 
I was once told that there are a million ways to skin a cat, but the question I think I need to ask you is: Do you want to use the Fur afterwards? 

Not every product or way on the show is neccessarily the best way or the way I agree with either. I can't stand the fact he gets his plumber to use Q line (Turquoise PEX-AL-PEX by IPEX) for water lines and pushes/recommends it. He even said on the show it's more expensive than copper, but you save on labour. So where do you win? You might as well install copper?? I've installed the stuff in the field for water lines as well as for radiant floors and I can't stand it and I don't know why a guy would use it over regular say Wirsbo or Rehau Everloc (or even Crimp pex).


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Lets not forget what he is really doing. He is selling. He is selling his show for ratings, and in turn another season of filming. He makes drama, than goes through all this emotion on how bad it all is, than how to fix it -- than the big finish. His shows are not ment for us to like, they are for idiot home owners. He is not teaching people how to do the installations (in a step by step format) he is showing his hand picked methods of installations. I personally have not gotten a call to install kerdie products as a result of his shows. It's entertainment and not much else.

AND, with respect to plumbing it doesn't take much brains to see a crap installation versus something correct. There were a few basements that he tore down and redid. The work was so poor I almost believe that he went in before and built it like that, so he could tear it apart on camera. Chances are when most of a job is hack work, ALL the work will be hack work...including plumbing and electrical. I personally like the show, in that it is not some complete dumb ass that looks good on tv teaching home owners how to do this or how to do that.

Point in case:
I was asked to do the finish on a home owner build remodel. thet tore everything out, replaced the drywall and wanted me to look over everything and give my $.02

The HGTV shows forgot to tell them that all old wire must be removed from walls opened up and everything must be brought to current code. The kit sink drain was 1 1/4" plastic, siliconed to the 2" riser (house on crawl) and the vent was duck taped together. Long story short, and 18 grand later, my drywall guy was tearing it all out as it was hung verticle. Permits were pulled and the kit was totally rewired with new title 24 cans (I hate those things). All new plumbing and get this.....the wires have nail plates as does the piping, and the pipe is even strapped. Didn't teach that on HGTV..... I'll take Holmes over thoes twats anyday of the week and twice on Sundays.....


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## Pipemaster (Jul 29, 2008)

* Some Interesting posts guys.*

*Now ask yourselves how many jobs he actually looks at, accepts, and completes for one episode. How many jobs does he turn away ?*

*We've all seen shoddy work out there and said to ourselves WTRF was this guy thinking, hell everyday my techs come back with horror stories and I believe them because I've seen em over the past 20 years, and so have you.*

*Thinking about Mr. Holmes I wonder sometimes if his lines aren't more about an ego boost for himself, than actually caring about homeowners, afterall it all looks good for the cameras and ratings for the show is really what they want and what its all about*.

*He isn't doing anything the rest of us seasoned plumbers and contractors wouldnt do for our reputation and our customers satisfaction.*

*I think he makes a fine point about how many hacks are out there trying to make it look good but can't cut the muster. everday it's becomming more of a reality.*

*It's one thing to be a peacock, then sub out a job on T.V. and make it look like you are responsible for the wonderfull work, and take the credit for it.*


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

I have never seen him on the show directly take credit for the work, and what he does is no more important than what you or I do in a renovation type of job. But you must keep in mind that in the overall scheme of renovations, like a lead singer in the band, someone has to be the face - someone has to be the general contractor. While this person may get more credit than the deserve, they also do a fairly important job for the homeowner. And the fact of the matter is, it will always be this way - and sometimes life isn't fair, but that's just the way it will always work. 

But lets think about the job of general contractor:

1) A good GC has to be the eyes and the ears for the homeowner.
2) They have to have to see not only the big picture, but understand some of the little details, and they also have to know what questions to ask to help piece together how they are going to get the homeowner what they want.
3) They have to work with a budget or quote often times.
4) They have to have a good team of sub contractors to go to, which means hopefully they have good, steady, consistent relationships with Plumbers, Electricians, etc, that work with them. 
5) Related to the above, if they have a good team of subs to go to, they have to know how to schedule them efficiently and if they have a good relationship with them, they will have no issues with getting things done on time because their subs are loyal and jump at the oppurtunity to work for them. Remember that being a customer isn't just being the person that pays you for your work. There is a customer relationship between everyone in building - between the subs and the GC - if you don't like the GC, or disagree with their work, or they don't pay you in a timely manner, how often will you want to work for them, if at all? And if you do sloppy work how do you expect a GC to want you to work for them? Building up this type of relationship can lead to a strong renovation "team," and this is better for the homeowner, and subsequently word of mouth recommendation. MIke obviously has this - maybe partly because of his show, but still. 
6) GC'S have to have some knowledge of all the trades. I've worked with some awesome GC's out there in my 4 1/2 years in the trade who know how to ask questions, partly for their personal knowledge to make themselves better, and partly to watch out for the homeowner. And they also have some ability as well. 

Again - like I said, someone has to be the lead singer, and unfortunately most of us aren't in the position to do so unless it's a small renovation, or a service call, or some type of heating or plumbing re & re.


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