# Sharkfin flapper



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

This was one from the other day. I replaced the flapper and it wouldn’t flush right. If you tripped the handle quickly like normal it would do a quarter flush because the flapper would shut too quick. I tried adjusting the chain too almost too tight. Then I tried switching the hook to all the different holes on the handle to try and get a different angle to flip the flapper properly. I finally noticed the top of the sharkfin was hitting the flush valve causing it to bounce back down. I cut off the tip of the flapper and it works normal. What’s the reason for the sharkfin anyway?


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

> What’s the reason for the sharkfin anyway?


Choose your answer:

A. So some engineer could justify his job, based on some theoretical water flow, restriction or turbulence formula.
B. Because it looks cool as a selling point on the package.
C. To help plumbers practice their ability to be resourceful, and find a work around for another useless product feature.
D. All of the above.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

My bet looking at the original which has the fin too is to prevent it from being stuck in the full open position after the flush is complete.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Debo22 said:


> ..........What’s the reason for the sharkfin anyway?





It's there to limit the travel of the flapper and thus the flow.




One piece toilets are pretty much all garbage.













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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> My bet looking at the original which has the fin too is to prevent it from being stuck in the full open position after the flush is complete.





Morning!
















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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

It’s there to test your ability as a plumber.. 
I’ve seen a few of them, they only seem to work in said toilet they come out of...
Other then that I cut the fin off and make “Flapper Fin Soup” which is illegal in most of North America.


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

Tango said:


> My bet looking at the original which has the fin too is to prevent it from being stuck in the full open position after the flush is complete.



Typical engineer's solution: We'll make sure it doesn't get stuck fully open by designing it so that it doesn't fully open. Brilliant!

Does it work like it should? That's irrelevant, just so long as no one can say that our flapper gets stick fully open!


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## plumbstar (May 4, 2018)

*Cut off*

I usually end up cutting them off.


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## thumper (Aug 19, 2011)

Have you noticed that Kohler is constantly changing their flapper designs? Not that the newest one is better than the previous flapper.
My theory is that they keep ahead of the patent expiration, so you have to buy a replacement from Kohler.
I have to carry at least 6 different flappers for Kohler toilets, not counting the Canister seal.
1 for Toto, 1 for Gerber.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

thumper said:


> Have you noticed that Kohler is constantly changing their flapper designs? Not that the newest one is better than the previous flapper.
> My theory is that they keep ahead of the patent expiration, so you have to buy a replacement from Kohler.
> I have to carry at least 6 different flappers for Kohler toilets, not counting the Canister seal.
> 1 for Toto, 1 for Gerber.


kolher SUCKS...thats why...


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

thumper said:


> Have you noticed that Kohler is constantly changing their flapper designs? Not that the newest one is better than the previous flapper.
> My theory is that they keep ahead of the patent expiration, so you have to buy a replacement from Kohler.
> I have to carry at least 6 different flappers for Kohler toilets, not counting the Canister seal.
> 1 for Toto, 1 for Gerber.







ShtRnsdownhill said:


> kolher SUCKS...thats why...






Yeah, kohler sucks a little more than most but they're not the only ones who play this game, almost all of them do. I hate kohler but will say they do keep their retail prices high so plumbers can make markup and the parts at home cheapo are usually different than what plumbers can get.


I think fill valve compatibility is the only good area, a pro45 can fit in almost any tank. But I think that's because FM is an injection molder who is the oem for many companies but also peddles it's own line of products.


Korky on the other hand is the oem for most flappers and since they don't have much skin in the direct retail market they go along with toilet manufacturers and will produce 100's of different flapper designs.




Faucets/shower valves have the same bs. They make money on peddling a "better design". Most plumbers know better which is why delta and moen were the staple for so long. Unfortunately they have decided to play the game more too so the venerable moen 1200 faucets are gone and delta is shying away from balls with seats and springs. This isn't happening because the new designs are better, any of you who have seen moen or deltas black ceramic cartridges know they suck.




Plumbing fixture manufacturers aren't marketing to plumbers anymore, they are trying to sell direct to the homeowner. Plumbers won't put up with that horse schit so these companies try to inject bias into the homeowner hoping they will tell their plumber what to put in or that they will buy it themselves and put it in on their own.




If they were marketing towards us than the packaging would be smaller and take up less space on the van. Instead delta sells a pair of seats and springs in a package that probably costs more than the product and takes up 10x the space. Now it has to look good on the rack at home cheapo and make the diy feel like they actually bought something. Not a little dime bag with two tiny pieces of rubber and some small springs.









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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

thumper said:


> Have you noticed that Kohler is constantly changing their flapper designs? Not that the newest one is better than the previous flapper.
> My theory is that they keep ahead of the patent expiration, so you have to buy a replacement from Kohler.
> I have to carry at least 6 different flappers for Kohler toilets, not counting the Canister seal.
> 1 for Toto, 1 for Gerber.


They keep changing there $hitty shower valves too, hate thoughs p.o.s.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

i love kohler . the headquarters is 15 minutes from me. they are a huge part of our local economy. i would agree that some things are over engineered but for the most part, i would rather install or repair their products more than anything else. most of the homes around here have kohler and always will. if you dont, people notice. kohler stands behind their products and doesnt have a problem sending repair parts for free. try that with most other products on this planet, plumbing or not.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i love kohler . the headquarters is 15 minutes from me. they are a huge part of our local economy. i would agree that some things are over engineered but for the most part, i would rather install or repair their products more than anything else. most of the homes around here have kohler and always will. if you dont, people notice. kohler stands behind their products and doesnt have a problem sending repair parts for free. try that with most other products on this planet, plumbing or not.





Plenty of other companies will send home owners free repair parts even for decades old stuff if the part's available. We are a kohler dealer and most of the stuff we install in normal homes(not huge, million dolllar) is kohler. The quality is crappier than most. 



Next time you install a kohler tank with that old stove top element imprint in the tank look at the front of the tank edge from top down with the lid off and you'll see how twisted the tanks are. Been that way for decades.




Here's a pic of a flush hole, lots of flashing left to restrict water flow. That 3" flush valve is now 1-1/4".







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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Plenty of other companies will send home owners free repair parts even for decades old stuff if the part's available. We are a kohler dealer and most of the stuff we install in normal homes(not huge, million dolllar) is kohler. The quality is crappier than most.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how do you know it wasnt designed that way goofball??? it looks like the restriction is to make water go through the down jets around the rim, that also gets the swirl action going, if the hole was cleaned out 3 inch all around only the lower bowl jet....:glasses::glasses:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> how do you know it wasnt designed that way goofball??? it looks like the restriction is to make water go through the down jets around the rim, that also gets the swirl action going, if the hole was cleaned out 3 inch all around only the lower bowl jet....:glasses::glasses:






Tell ya what, that's a kohler ada height, "Highline" model I think, when things get back to normal you'll have sooooo many pictures of flush holes :biggrin:











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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Tell ya what, that's a kohler ada height, "Highline" model I think, when things get back to normal you'll have sooooo many pictures of flush holes :biggrin:
> 
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and your point??? and again how do you know it wasnt designed that way????


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> and your point??? and again how do you know it wasnt designed that way????





Because we're a kohler dealer and I install at least a couple new kohler toilets a month. I have seen enough to know that doesn't look right . Maybe there is a bit of a scoop thing supposed to be going on there but it's definitely not supposed to be like that small in the center.




But I am open to criticism and the possibility of being wrong. Maybe it's not as bad as I think it is. That's why I will collect more evidence in the form of pictures and share my research.






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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Because we're a kohler dealer and I install at least a couple new kohler toilets a month. I have seen enough to know that doesn't look right . Maybe there is a bit of a scoop thing supposed to be going on there but it's definitely not supposed to be like that small in the center.
> 
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did you install it? how did it flush? did you compare it to another of the same exact model? :smile:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> did you install it? how did it flush? did you compare it to another of the same exact model? :smile:





I don't remember, that picture is from like 6 months ago, I found when going through old pictures for another picture.







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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> I don't remember, that picture is from like 6 months ago, I found when going through old pictures for another picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well you didnt get a call back so odds are its working fine and the schit is going down without issue...


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> well you didnt get a call back so odds are its working fine and the schit is going down without issue...







No, odds are I told the customer before they even ordered a new toilet that the old ones were better and now they gulp nervously every time they flush while a battle worn plunger hides in the corner muttering Not again, Not again!!



Or they told their friend and their friend said old ones were better.



Or they googled it and found out old ones were better.


Or the office sent one of 7 other plumbers to check it out or replace the toilet.








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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> how do you know it wasnt designed that way goofball??? it looks like the restriction is to make water go through the down jets around the rim, that also gets the swirl action going, if the hole was cleaned out 3 inch all around only the lower bowl jet....:glasses::glasses:







Here ya go smart azz. Some jerkoff in the factory never cut off the flashing in that first one I posted.









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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Here ya go smart azz. Some jerkoff in the factory never cut off the flashing in that first one I posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





sad truth is it probably flushes better with the slag in..............:vs_laugh:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> sad truth is it probably flushes better with the slag in..............:vs_laugh:







How do you figure that?









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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> How do you figure that?
> 
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looks like more water would be pushed through those top holes with the slag there, how did the bowl flush installed with the slag compared to a bowl without?


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Im thinking sharkfin prevents flapper from sticking while in up position.
As for the Kohler W/C Looks like a defect yes but whether it will effect performance it doesent look obvious to me it might act fine . I would prefer not installing it . If customer supplied or builder no problem. because I dont warrantee others purchase. They want to return it fine.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> looks like more water would be pushed through those top holes with the slag there, how did the bowl flush installed with the slag compared to a bowl without?





They both seemed the same lolz. These kohlers have a slow trap design and flush very little water anyway. I am sure the flashing was no harm.










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## Mykeeb33 (Mar 6, 2015)

maybe that fin allows them to call it a 1.6 gal toilet.


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