# What type of Plumber are You?



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Had a discussion with Mike (saysflushable) this morning and this topic came to mind.



Does a plumber who has done new construction plumbing make a good service plumber? 


Can a new construction plumber do service plumbing efficiently?


Does a new construction plumber always make a good estimator for bidding jobs?


Does a plumber who does service plumbing their entire career, can they easily jump into new construction with enough knowledge to make the transition?


Does new construction plumbing mold the expertise of a knowledgeable service plumber? 


Lots of variables to choose from, many different ways we've all entered this profession. 



I've seen guys who worked in the shop (I didn't list this) that handled materials on a regular basis, understood what was common and habitually breaking that when they got put in the profession they instantly mended in with no issues whatsoever.

Almost like you was catching someone highly interested in more than stocking shelves, enterprising their momentum and willingness to learn. << You can achieve a lot with that attitude if you can find the right person who's interested. Because I've dealt with "licensed" journeymen that are burned out, need a job, are bored with anything new and have the attitude to just "get by" instead of having any hunt left in the dog.

That's why some of the fellows I hear that call me, that are licensed plumbers seem to be a lost spirit when they lay out their street creds over the phone. 

That's how it is though, I can't tell them how to present themselves but it's the deciding factor of how they are in the future most times.


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I can say for certain that my background in new construction helps me out in the service world. Trying to explain what might be hidden in walls or under the slab to another plumber that's only done service work can sometimes be frustrating. Because I've put them together before it's kind of like having x-ray vision. I wasn't a great service plumber right away, just because I've done new construction but it does help. On that same note, I've seen lots of new construction plumbers where that's all they know and they barely know that. They were terrible service plumbers. There's a big part of being a service plumber that involves your interactions with people and being somebody the customer can relate to. In new construction you don't have to think about that; spit on the floor, cuss all day long at volume 11, throwing tools, etc. Some guys can't break these habbits. A guy that works at a parts counter and has a huge product knowledge might have a leg up on the plumber because of his people skills. All the facets of the trade are different enough that none of them can prepare you 100% for any other.





Paul


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> I can say for certain that my background in new construction helps me out in the service world. Trying to explain what might be hidden in walls or under the slab to another plumber that's only done service work can sometimes be frustrating. Because I've put them together before it's kind of like having x-ray vision. I wasn't a great service plumber right away, just because I've done new construction but it does help. On that same note, I've seen lots of new construction plumbers where that's all they know and they barely know that. They were terrible service plumbers. There's a big part of being a service plumber that involves your interactions with people and being somebody the customer can relate to. In new construction you don't have to think about that; spit on the floor, cuss all day long at volume 11, throwing tools, etc. Some guys can't break these habbits. A guy that works at a parts counter and has a huge product knowledge might have a leg up on the plumber because of his people skills. All the facets of the trade are different enough that none of them can prepare you 100% for any other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I VERY MUCH agree with this Paul ! Think that to make a truly GREAT plumber you have to train in most if not all of the different disciplines . 
THEN take people skills into a home and master dealing with all types and personalities of customers . 
No disrespect to anybody who has ONLY done service ,,, but if you haven't done it from the ground up ,, can be missing the whole picture . 
Also feel that remodeling plumbers get a faster , overall education ( whether it's Resi or Comm ) then just about anybody .
my .02


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I started out in a third generation service shop. Then went to commercial. I have done my share of single/ multi family construction. 2 yrs. as a plumbing inspector. I don't know everything. I have just seen and done alot over the years. I have hired new const. guys that thought service was a piece of cake. Any moron can do it! Ask them a question about diagnostics, and they are lost. They have no clue as to the fine art of service work. On the other side, a service plumber would not have a clue new const. techniques. All can be acquired if a plumber is willing, able and given the opportunity.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Repair work can be more complex than a new install for a typical home.


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Repair work can be more complex than a new install for a typical home.


 i agree ,,, yes . However ,, do you agree that it is important to have the knowledge of what is going on in floors and walls to better / quicker diagnose the problem ?


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I mainly do new construction but when needed I'll do service when requested by my boss. I don't really care for service. Having a suppressed immune system, I don't like touching others plumbing fixtures. It raises my chances of making me really ill. I have no problems diagnosing problems and repairing or replacing anything. For years I was the only plumber doing new construction warranty work and I believe that has taught me alot on the service side of plumbing.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

house plumber said:


> I mainly do new construction but when needed I'll do service when requested by my boss. I don't really care for service. Having a suppressed immune system, I don't like touching others plumbing fixtures. It raises my chances of making me really ill. I have no problems diagnosing problems and repairing or replacing anything. For years I was the only plumber doing new construction warranty work and I believe that has taught me alot on the service side of plumbing.


 


I can't say I blame you for that. The exposures I've had in just the past 10 days is scary.


Blood-born goop, fecal matter, human tissue, hair, veins, and I still come home and eat donuts bare handed! :thumbup:


If you already have a compromised immune system I can see this being really bad. But indirectly for those not in that situation...


the constant exposure to the "bad" stuff builds an immunity to the same bad things that nurses get around. God's way of allowing those who live in dangerous professions to not be a victim of their own doings.

Pretty impressive how we're created and function. Awe crap I just broke a fingernail...I'll be down for days now.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Cal said:


> i agree ,,, yes . However ,, do you agree that it is important to have the knowledge of what is going on in floors and walls to better / quicker diagnose the problem ?


 If you have done enough repair and remodel then you already know whats usually behind the walls and floors. For instance a guy plumbing new houses since 95 thats done no repair work wouldn't have a clue how they plumbed things 70 years ago.....no matter how well he plumbs new houses today. I see it all doing repair...including all the fk up's the new guys make.


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Where is the option for none of the above?


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> If you have done enough repair and remodel then you already know whats usually behind the walls and floors. For instance a guy plumbing new houses since 95 thats done no repair work wouldn't have a clue how they plumbed things 70 years ago.....no matter how well he plumbs new houses today. I see it all doing repair...including all the fk up's the new guys make.


 That person has a bunch of pictures of what is in walls and floors . The TOTAL picture comes from starting from ground up .


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Where is the option for none of the above?


 

Write your own in on the next post; I promise this thread will guarantee it'll be read. :thumbsup:


----------



## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm all plumbing service, repair work, remodels and drain cleaning. I'd do new construction...IF there was any money in it. All the GCs seem to want to pay peanuts, and there are plenty of plumbers around here that are willing to work for peanuts. So that is my number one reason for not doing new construction. I prefer service anyway, diagnosing problems, driving around a warehouse on wheels with thousands of parts and tools in the back. Thats my gig.


----------



## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

I can can appreciate that. 
i feel I'm a well rounded plumber. That's all that matters. at this time I'm doing med gas for a commercial outfit. but in 17 yrs. i've seen all phases of plumbing and feel comfortable with any situation. as with these time, we are all out there doing what we can to feed our families, so just abide by the state and county laws and codes get a plumbing contractors lic. and get in where you fit in. I've been fortunate to have a well rounded career in the Plumbing field. we are professionals, and very proud!


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> I can can appreciate that.
> i feel I'm a well rounded plumber. That's all that matters. at this time I'm doing med gas for a commercial outfit. but in 17 yrs. i've seen all phases of plumbing and feel comfortable with any situation. as with these time, we are all out there doing what we can to feed our families, so just abide by the state and county laws and codes get a plumbing contractors lic. and get in where you fit in. I've been fortunate to have a well rounded career in the Plumbing field. we are professionals, and very proud!


 Well said !!


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Residential Service Plumber-Will only be writing on residential.

Maybe the standards are lower around here, but my experience with new construction plumbers is not so hot. Most of them around here don't know jack about plumbing. All they know is how to punch out a particular model. As stated in an earlier post, unless you been doing new construciton since the early 1900's, you have no idea how bad some  is done. The way its supposed to be and the way it actually is are two completey different things. 

Just to piss some people off. It always seems that the plumbers coming from new contruction make light of service not the other way around. Service plumbers know how tough it is, and generally don't have to talk about it.:furious:


----------



## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Well Steve I don't fit into any of those catagories. I'm a licensed plumbing contractor that does, new, re- hab, re- model, service, some drain cleaning and bidding and estimating. My career has been too diverse to be labled by any of those catagories.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I can't rewrite poll options so maybe nathan can remove option #9, change it to "other" and specify what talent applies.


Hell I even set that to multiple choice! 


Damn internet too fookin' hard for me today


----------



## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

ive done new and serv. both over my career , it takes a good lay out man in new const. and a decent gen. cont. ive always done mostly serv.work, remodels, and drain cln. because it always been busy for me, i like the chalanges and surprises of serv. work and the money turns over alot faster! thats why im the master of disaster!!!!!!


----------



## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> If you have done enough repair and remodel then you already know whats usually behind the walls and floors. For instance a guy plumbing new houses since 95 thats done no repair work wouldn't have a clue how they plumbed things 70 years ago.....no matter how well he plumbs new houses today. I see it all doing repair...including all the fk up's the new guys make.


AHH!!!! Something we agree on.

The transition from service to new is easier than the other way around not only in plumbing, but also in pricing.


----------



## mselkee (Aug 13, 2009)

I started out in service, did 4 years, at the age of 22 I was lucky enough to get hired by a very good new construction company........what an eye opener. I had done some new construction but this was crazy. 

First day on the job we did water services at a 25 house tract. On the way to the job I asked how many days we were going to be there.............big mistake. They were done that day. Needless to say I had to unlearn some service habits real quick. The crew leader was a Mexican, Marine. Vietnam vet who could bench press #400. If you dared to do sloppy work you got to watch him literally rip it out of the wall and had to do it over while he screamed at you.............motivational. He actually was an excellent plumber and demanded the same from those who worked under him. If you didn't learn his way you were given the S#$% jobs until you quit or came around. I actually am glad I ran into him he did me a great service. I ended up doing all their service and special projects for quite a few years. 

I would say both service and new construction disciplines are good to know and know well. They complement each other.


----------



## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

Very similar history to the above poster. Started learning service & heat work when I was in my early teens. Went to work thru a school program when I was 13. Worked for smaller shops, all residential service/drain cleaning & Boiler Wk. Most of these were family to some degree. I enjoyed service but stepped away from plumbing for about 3 years in my early 20's. When I came back I started the at the same co. doing the same thing and realzied that I felt no matter how great I was I was being limited by the fact of service was only showing me one side. I filled out na app and when in with a big co. I did not take the schooling b-c I was close to my hours as it was and had never been impressed by the kids outta school ( no offense, just my exp.) 

Best thing I ever did. With a knowledge of service, how to deal with problems and how to work clean I think made me considering how important all those glue joints were, etc... But not coming in green I knew how to pay my dues, out work the young guys and have fun while doing it. It also opened me up t a broad range of new technology that I was getting in a smaller shop.

*So I think you need both, to appreciate the full scope of what your working with. *I wouldn't have changed any of it. The last couple years as a FT employee with my co. we switched to performance pay. So you better be fast, neat plumb and it had better be perfect. Or else not only would you look bad and cst yourself builder's wanting you to do there work. But you were fixing that on your own dime.


----------



## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

mselkee said:


> I started out in service, did 4 years, at the age of 22 I was lucky enough to get hired by a very good new construction company........what an eye opener. I had done some new construction but this was crazy.
> 
> First day on the job we did water services at a 25 house tract. On the way to the job I asked how many days we were going to be there.............big mistake. They were done that day. Needless to say I had to unlearn some service habits real quick. The crew leader was a Mexican, Marine. Vietnam vet who could bench press #400. If you dared to do sloppy work you got to watch him literally rip it out of the wall and had to do it over while he screamed at you.............motivational. He actually was an excellent plumber and demanded the same from those who worked under him. If you didn't learn his way you were given the S#$% jobs until you quit or came around. I actually am glad I ran into him he did me a great service. I ended up doing all their service and special projects for quite a few years.
> 
> I would say both service and new construction disciplines are good to know and know well. They complement each other.


Sounds alot like my first boss. Scream, yell, throw tools etc. Mistakes were not tolerated. You had to work fast and do it right. When I look back I think he was a good influence on me. 

My first 6 years in the trade were all new const. Mostly residential with some commercial. We did some heating and alot of gas piping too.

I then went into business for myself and slowly learned service while still doing some new houses and remodeling. At first I wasn't very good at service. I could pretty much fix anything but wasn't fast and efficient. I soon realized there was alot "I didn't know" about service plumbing.
I didn't know all of the tendencies of all the differen't brands.
I didn't know what was critical to always have on my truck for stock. 
I didn't know how to properly snake a drain. (I still only do smaller drains)
I didn't know where to find rare parts. 
I didn't know when to repair or replace. (this is key to service)
I didn't know how much to charge for service. (this one is important too)
I didn't know there were certain tools you must have for service.

Ten years later with a lot of tough memories and good experience, I think I'm one of the better residential service plumbers in this area. Because of my early experience with new construction, I had the confidence to learn the service end of plumbing mostly on my own.


----------



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I am actually the unlicensed one doing work, please dont tell anyone!


----------



## undispised (Nov 20, 2008)

i dont fit in any categories i think
apprentice plumber commercial and industrial
appartments,schools,hospitals and so on


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

undispised said:


> i dont fit in any categories i think
> apprentice plumber commercial and industrial
> appartments,schools,hospitals and so on


Apprentice plumber doing new construction only...


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I started out working with my father at a very young age, just doing sewer and drain cleaning. Then when I was old enough I apprenticed under old man Delaney, he used to be in the local 130 back in the day, did nothing but new construction on high rises. He ran a small service company in hopes his son would want to be a plumber and take over. Now when it came to service calls Mr Delaney he did OK. He was not big into the drain cleaning that is one of the ways how he met my father. Now during my apprenticeship I never did any new construction it was only service calls and drain cleaning.

When it comes to designing a plumbing system I do real well I have been told, but they say I use to many fittings in my dwv system. I think I do a better job using them extra fittings cause I am seeing how to service it in the future.


----------



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I do residential and commercial plumbing for the navy. It either goes from 5-10 bathroom dwellings to 12" waterlines with all the backflow prevention to complete PEB's. For my business, I'm more service and repair and I'm trying to gear more towards drain cleaning. If I could keep my cables wet all day, I'd never touch another water heater.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

gear junkie said:


> I do residential and commercial plumbing for the navy. It either goes from 5-10 bathroom dwellings to 12" waterlines with all the backflow prevention to complete PEB's. For my business, I'm more service and repair and I'm trying to gear more towards drain cleaning.* If I could keep my cables wet all day, I'd never touch another water heater*.


 
Right on :thumbup: I love drain cleaning. I take pride in clearing sewers and drains.


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

During my apprenticeship, I did custom houses and commercial, then pipefitting, then tract housing, then commercial again. I journeyed out, and stayed in commercial, but got into service, which I loved. Back to pipefitting on the nuke circuit, then waterparks, more tract housing, waterparks, then my own shop, which was mostly residential and commercial service. I sold out, and now do industrial and commercial service. Industrial is awesome, it's all I like doing.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I can't rewrite poll options so maybe nathan can remove option #9, change it to "other" and specify what talent applies.
> 
> 
> Hell I even set that to multiple choice!
> ...


Done


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Cool beans, thanks Ron.


----------



## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

I checked other as I do everything plumbing related even fountains. I was a manager and forklift operator for a marina before entering the plumbing field(1979). I had no idea what plumbing was all about before I was asked one day by a boat owner(also owner of a local plumbing company) if I would be interested in becoming a plumber. She told me "that is was a great career and that someone would always need a plumber"and they would put me though a 4yr apprenticeship program paid by them. I thought about that and gave my one month notice. I was forunate enough to experience all phases of plumbing working for the two companies prior to taking my state exam in February 1990. Been in business since May of 90. I am hoping my oldest son will learn the trade so he can take over when I've had enough..


----------



## D'Brie (Nov 8, 2009)

I'm a second (almost third) year apprentice. 95% service balance new/remodel. I have 22 years experience in electrical supply; lots of people skills. These skills help even the journeymen I work with. I've learned a lot in service plumbing but would enjoy some new construction exposure as well.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*people skills are necessary*

I have done new construction since I was 8
and used to keep a lead pot cooking full of 
molten lead. for the men..... 
I thought that was cool being a kid getting to 
go around and pick up shards of scrap lead and re-melt them 

I would dip out a ladle full of lead and hand it
down to someone in a crawl space pouring a cast iron joint..
(jesus christ that was dangerous)....

did a ton of residential slab work, 
and some commercial.. (hated it)

cleaned out a lot of drains and I finally learned to hate it too.

I hung a lot of solar panels...now that is hard work....

I watched my father take a good stiff screwing 
a number of times from his builder buddies
and realized that service work was the safe bet ....
good ,,lucrative and easy it was.too...


all you have to do is present yourself as freindly,
competitent, clean and honest... 
just talk to them while you work and have fun.....





*No matter what kind of plumbing you like...*
*the most important thing are the people skills you learn along the way.......*


*you might be a "plumbing genious" but*
*if you sound, act , smell , look, *
*or talk like a dumb ape *

*you wont go far ....*


----------



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Third year apprentice doing service/residential work. 

Took the Journeyman exam through PHCC to get my two year Service Technician card. Passed 3/4 sections with 80% or better. Retook DWV section couple weeks ago, waiting for my results. 

Starting school next semester to learn residential HVAC. The more I know, the more money I'll make.


----------



## dankman (Nov 19, 2009)

I chose other because I've almost always been a service plumber but I've found myself doing a fair number of new/rehab work, steam fitting and, fire system repairs. There was a period of time where I spent a a lot of time running underground gas service but the state made that an issue for the gas companies, a lot of people spent a lot of time and money on education and DOT drug testing compliances just to get shafted due to a regulation the state made in favor of gas utilities in Ohio. 

Right now I'm doing a lot of residential service with some light commercial tossed in, I'm hoping to move to a client base that is 75-80% commercial/industrial with a smattering of residential. We'll see if that happens.

Right now I'm


----------



## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

I just lol, reading this thread. Made me think about when I was a FT employee with my old co. They ran a Commercial & Condo Crew (hourly) NRC ( piece rate). When lay off's started we went over to condo's and were given units to peace rate. You had to roll but god you could make a lot of money. 

Why this thread made me think about it was what you know and how it can lmit you. One day tghe whole NRC crew showed up before a long Holiday 4 day holiday. We banged out our stuff by 10 but felt but for the hourly guys that were realy working hard to try and get there stuff done and get out. We, as a whole offered to help so they could get outta there early. They gave us all the 'community" lobby area bathroom's b-c yeah. We can roll thru that, right. 

4 ruined wall hung toilets and a few issues with urinals later, they decided it would be better to show us what the hell we were doing. rather then let us figure it out ourselves...lol Prob the most expensive free labor they ever had :blink:

I felt like I worked with some of the greatest guys in the world. But I think it all comes down to what you know & what you have worked with. Now I can say yes I can trim out a bath... "like I see at the mall" lol


----------



## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

I ended up choosing "other" because in addition to being a plumbing contractor engaged in service as well as a little new construction, I also am a full service hydronic and steam heating service/installation contractor as well as a oil burner service contractor.


----------



## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

I started off with RR, after 1 year a service manager with a big plumbing co asked me if I wanted to be a plumber?He put me on their (sewer) truck and I was off an running .I studied and passed journeyman test after a few yrs and kept studying and taking the masters until I passed it .In 75 a fellow abandoned his mr rooter franchise and I was handed it free, this was before dywer took it over ,national manfacturing (lee russell)owned it then.So I followed their instructions a few yrs and dropped them and took out on my own ,never looked back.When I was running full blast we did repairs ,replaced sewer and water lines,restaurants,theaters,trailer parks,anyone who would pay.Things are slower now just me and my truck but I am happy healthy (bum back) and work when I want to and for whom I want to and collect after every job no charges. I was trying to think of a quick name for this site ,actually I am a licenced,insured,tax paying master plumber @gas fitter, who decided to slow it down.


----------

