# what's wrong with this toilet?



## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

HO calls says toilet isn't flushing well, but it eventually will go down leaving little water in the base of the bowl.

It is a 1988 Gerber, so old school comode. and isn't a rush they have two other bathrooms but use this one to potty train son.

I flush see water rise and stop about and inch or so before overflow and then recede slightly. I go retrieve the auger. once, twice nothing and I can tell the damn thing is catching on the horn of a wax ring. So I get the new stanley shop vac, HO watches and says yuck. I say huh, being clean no mess. Tell him I need to pull toilet, maybe little guy dumped toy down the poop shoot. Pulled, tipped toilet shook toilet scratching my head and maybe something else. What did I miss. Reset and told HO time to get new one....

What was the cause? Anyone...anyone..


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

Line stoppage?


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

bar of hard soap that has softened and is trapped on the top of the trap


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

suzie said:


> HO calls says toilet isn't flushing well, but it eventually will go down leaving little water in the base of the bowl.
> 
> It is a 1988 Gerber, so old school comode. and isn't a rush they have two other bathrooms but use this one to potty train son.
> 
> ...


I love when you the plumber can tell the home owner that -- they are not flushing every time. A couple of people peeing in the toilet and not flushing builds up. Toilet will rise almost to the rim and then slowly receed. 
Jet hole blocked -- Acid treatment needed.


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## drain surgeon (Jun 17, 2010)

Im with Richard on this one. Just because you dont see anything doesnt meen its not there.


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

suzie said:


> HO calls says toilet isn't flushing well, but it eventually will go down leaving little water in the base of the bowl.
> 
> It is a 1988 Gerber, so old school comode. and isn't a rush they have two other bathrooms but use this one to potty train son.
> 
> ...


did you run your auger with the toilet removed ? 
or did you run the auger backward from outlet into bowl ?
run water from supply hose into closet ring opening,then
dump 5 gallon bucket of water into closet ring opening to test line for stoppage


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I use a General Drop head auger. It has a larger head than the standard one. The drop head helps with tighter traps. I was skeptical at first but now I know if it goes all the way through, the fixture is clear.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

RealCraftsMan said:


> Line stoppage?


Did you make sure that the drain under the toilet was clear? I keep a 3/8" flex handy to flush a few minutes worth of water down the drain to be be sure it's clear or dump a bucket of water through. Even taking the toilet outside and flushing the trap with a garden hose could ensure that you have the toilet cleared. I would test the drain, at this point, to be sure the line was clear.


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

sure sounds like a partial stoppage farther out.


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

What about sponge out flashlight onto mirror in trap then lift and do reverse I've done all good suggestions above this is just another


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Seesnake Micro, look from both ends. You'd be surprised. 

I had capri sun drink bag that was fileted in half that would let the drop head auger pass by and not snag, then when you pulled the auger out it would close and retard the flow. It would let tissue pass through sometime, but compress against the side of the trap when augered. You would have thought that the paper would have helped it get pushed out, but nope.

I have another regular auger that is unwound like a deformed hook that helps too.


Did you try putting a little liquid soap down the overflow tube in the tank?

If you do that and it flushes, it's usually the jet clogged. When the residue from the soap has passed, it will start mis-flushing again. For an '88 toilet, I'd just replace it before I tried acid to clean the jets. IMO.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Suzie is a plumber so I am pretty positive that the basics have been covered such as the jet hole and rim jets,
I have questions
How long has this been going on? Has it happened in the past? What did they do to help the toilet? Has it been repaired and did someone install a 1.6 gallon flush valve in and the water level is not properly matched to the toilet and tank. Generally a toilet does not stop flushing in 1 day when it has a problem with the trap; it is a gradual issue that becomes frustrating to the home owner.
I just had a customer that has a Briggs toilet. It was stopped up and when ia sked her the questions above she replied no to each one until I started talking about loose waste and having to double flush the Briggs toilet to remove all the loose waste. Then the issue became an all the time thing. A new toilet that flushes.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Suzie is a plumber so I am pretty positive that the basics have been covered such as the jet hole and rim jets.


No disrespect directed to you Richard, or Suzie, but this is a pretty simple problem. It's either the line or the toilet. After you've narrowed it down that far, there's not too many more variables left. Trying to guess over the internet is just a waste of time though. 


My initial thought would probably be to confirm that the line is open and replace the toilet.







Paul


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

drain surgeon said:


> Im with Richard on this one. Just because you dont see anything doesnt meen its not there.



Agreed.

Pulling the WC is standard for me in this situation as there is almost always something stuck near the horn or up in the trap.

As suggested, the SeeSnake Micro works wonders here.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

rocksteady said:


> No disrespect directed to you Richard, or Suzie, but this is a pretty simple problem. It's either the line or the toilet. After you've narrowed it down that far, there's not too many more variables left. Trying to guess over the internet is just a waste of time though.
> 
> 
> My initial thought would probably be to confirm that the line is open and replace the toilet.
> ...


Absolutely agree, did it start yesterday or has it been an on going problem for some time. Period


I would venture to take a best guess thatthte drain is not the problem and it is in the toilet or the toilet itself. Especially when the other fixtures are draining


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Where's jsohs when u need him?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

When typical auguring yields no results I'm happy with I check that the overflow is recieving ample water to refill bowl. A quick dump from a bucket of water will tell if its the bowl or if it's getting enough water fast enough. If it isn't getting enough water from the tank quick enough it will dump every other flush as a rule. If I'm convinced the problem is in the bowl I pull and auger from bottom if the problem isn't already abovious. If it needs acidizing etc. I tell them for the labor and investment that's building up it's best in most cases to replace and start over. What I hate with a passion is Kohler low boys. Man they can be so finicky.


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## scplumbing (Feb 5, 2012)

I generally bucket flush to see if the problem is water from the tank not displacing itself in the bowl fast enough. I've seen the chlorine tablets or those slimy blue things go down the flush valve and plug up the jets. That or just a build up. Also you could set the toilet on blocks outside and fill the tank, then flush. Even use toilet paper and see if it passes through the bowl. And check the drain in the house by dumping water down and toilet paper. It's a lot of work but better then selling an upgraded flush toilet, or any toilet and having it not flush. Specially if the home owner is watching over you as they usually do.


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## PLUMBERICK (Feb 13, 2012)

I would drain out all the water,,pull it,, slowly turn it over 360 degrees end over end one way if nothing falls out turn it the other way 360.
If nothing fell out put your WC auger (I usually use a "GENERAL URINAL AUGER")
through it so you can get to the other end of the cable. Tie a rag on to the dirty end of the auger then tie a good size knot in the rag and pull it back out through the bowl. 
If you don't get something it's time to switch from a Plumber to a Salesman and start talking about how much the new low consumption WC's save on the water bill


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Let me think out loud here:

The water comes up to about an inch from the top. Sounds as if something's plugged. Then it goes down slowly until the bowl's empty. Yes, because the overflow is no longer refilling the bowl. The toilet siphons clear. Now the question is whether it's in the bowl or the drain. Don't overlook the possibility that the bowl is broken internally - a piece of china can be floating up and down and blocking the trapway. Also, sometimes the trap arm under the floor is uphill either because the house settled or because the original plumbing was amateur. 

If the toilet hasn't been flushed for quite a while and it backs up immediately, then the clog is close by, especially if it's a 1.6 gallon flush. But if it's a 3.5 that makes a difference. 

I don't have the mini seasnake, but I use a flashlight and a pocket mirror to look up into the trapway. So many toilets are impossible to see much from the bottom side because they've got too many bends. As mentioned previously, running the auger backwards through the trapway might be useful.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

JK949 said:


> I use a General Drop head auger. It has a larger head than the standard one. The drop head helps with tighter traps. I was skeptical at first but now I know if it goes all the way through, the fixture is clear.


I used a drop head and couldn't get to the bottom of a playdough lid, thing just kept flipping. This problem as previously stated is the toilet or the line and with the description my money is the terlet


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeh, it's pretty straightforward once you pull the bowl. Dump a 5 gal bucket of water down the drain. Does it take that? Then it must be the WC. I've seen everything from humidifier diptubes to toothpaste tubes to bars of soap clogging the trapway. The creepy guy from 10,000 flushes has been the culprit on more than one occassion! A couple of times it was the styrofoam insert from the flapper that came loose and clogged half the bowl flush rim outlets. (Glad to not see so many of those anymore!) Shotglasses are a real bane but unlikely in a residential setting.
False teeth and kids tub toys can really test your metal. Seemingly not there when the auger goes thru but water will not pass! DoH!


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

Well you can spend $$$$ of the customers money dinking around with an OLD toilet and still have an old calcified toilet with no guarantees or just replace the darn thing with a new one with a warranty that saves water and looks new for about the same money. I like the see snake micro idea though. I finally have a reason to get me one!


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## danpont (Mar 27, 2012)

*What about when a different toilet does the same thing?*

In this case, I augered the 6" line with the toilet off all the way to the street with a 3" round blade. I also augered out the toilet from top and underside. There was no sign of a clog. So I brought a toilet with me that I know works--replaced by an upgrade in a rich guy's house. The replacement toilet did the same thing. It's the only fixture in the house that doesn't drain. 

My theory is that because the floor isn't level (about 3/8" from the back of the toilet to the front), the toilet is tipped forward, as is the flange, and so the bowl won't siphon into the trap like it should. I've told the landlord that we need to replace the part of the floor that is sagging under the toilet, right the flange and try again. Sound plausible? I want to confirm before I dig in, only to find the problem is not corrected when all is said and done $700 later. The house is 100 years old and poorly maintained with water damage here and there, including the bathroom floor.

Anyone have experience with this?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

danpont said:


> In this case, I augered the 6" line with the toilet off all the way to the street with a 3" round blade. I also augered out the toilet from top and underside. There was no sign of a clog. So I brought a toilet with me that I know works--replaced by an upgrade in a rich guy's house. The replacement toilet did the same thing. It's the only fixture in the house that doesn't drain.
> 
> My theory is that because the floor isn't level (about 3/8" from the back of the toilet to the front), the toilet is tipped forward, as is the flange, and so the bowl won't siphon into the trap like it should. I've told the landlord that we need to replace the part of the floor that is sagging under the toilet, right the flange and try again. Sound plausible? I want to confirm before I dig in, only to find the problem is not corrected when all is said and done $700 later. The house is 100 years old and poorly maintained with water damage here and there, including the bathroom floor.
> 
> Anyone have experience with this?


Here come the Sharks smelling this post....


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## walker426 (Oct 17, 2011)

danpont said:


> In this case, I augered the 6" line with the toilet off all the way to the street with a 3" round blade. I also augered out the toilet from top and underside. There was no sign of a clog. So I brought a toilet with me that I know works--replaced by an upgrade in a rich guy's house. The replacement toilet did the same thing. It's the only fixture in the house that doesn't drain.
> 
> My theory is that because the floor isn't level (about 3/8" from the back of the toilet to the front), the toilet is tipped forward, as is the flange, and so the bowl won't siphon into the trap like it should. I've told the landlord that we need to replace the part of the floor that is sagging under the toilet, right the flange and try again. Sound plausible? I want to confirm before I dig in, only to find the problem is not corrected when all is said and done $700 later. The house is 100 years old and poorly maintained with water damage here and there, including the bathroom floor.
> 
> Anyone have experience with this?


Blocked vent maybe


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

My theory is that because the floor isn't level (about 3/8" from the back of the toilet to the front), the toilet is tipped forward, as is the flange, and so the bowl won't siphon into the trap like it should. Siphon into the trap?? Correct me if I'm wrong but when the water passes the outlet in a toilet it is already through the trap you do not siphon into a trap it is siphoned out of the trap. You mention that the house is 100 years old. Is it possible there is a another trap in the piping close to the toilet. {not a main house trap} with a fresh air inlet.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

danpont said:


> In this case, I augered the 6" line with the toilet off all the way to the street with a 3" round blade. I also augered out the toilet from top and underside. There was no sign of a clog. So I brought a toilet with me that I know works--replaced by an upgrade in a rich guy's house. The replacement toilet did the same thing. It's the only fixture in the house that doesn't drain.
> 
> My theory is that because the floor isn't level (about 3/8" from the back of the toilet to the front), the toilet is tipped forward, as is the flange, and so the bowl won't siphon into the trap like it should. I've told the landlord that we need to replace the part of the floor that is sagging under the toilet, right the flange and try again. *Sound plausible?* I want to confirm before I dig in, only to find the problem is not corrected when all is said and done $700 later. The house is 100 years old and poorly maintained with water damage here and there, including the bathroom floor.
> 
> Anyone have experience with this?


 





No.........:no:


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Belly?


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

danpont said:


> In this case, I augered the 6" line with the toilet off all the way to the street with a 3" round blade. I also augered out the toilet from top and underside. There was no sign of a clog. So I brought a toilet with me that I know works--replaced by an upgrade in a rich guy's house. The replacement toilet did the same thing. It's the only fixture in the house that doesn't drain.
> 
> My theory is that because the floor isn't level (about 3/8" from the back of the toilet to the front), the toilet is tipped forward, as is the flange, and so the bowl won't siphon into the trap like it should. I've told the landlord that we need to replace the part of the floor that is sagging under the toilet, right the flange and try again. Sound plausible? I want to confirm before I dig in, only to find the problem is not corrected when all is said and done $700 later. The house is 100 years old and poorly maintained with water damage here and there, including the bathroom floor.
> 
> Anyone have experience with this?


Probably the backflow spitting due to pressure loss on the supply side!


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## CopperKing#1g (Feb 23, 2012)

*Toilet problem*

If the drain works great with the toilet off. I would just buy a Western Toilet tank & bowl both $79. Stay away from new kohler toilets. They flush the worst.
Assuming this toilet is not a special (High-end model or has a special color)


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

1988 toilets take 3 gallons per flush. First thing I'd check is water level in tank. You won't get siphon action if you don't flush enough water. Make sure its a 3 gal tank, also. In fact, try pouring 3 gallons right into the bowl from a bucket and see if it flushes. If so, then, fix the tank. If not, sorry about the overflow . If the line is clogged from the toilet, when you pull it, there should be water in the line. Drop the spply line into the line and turn it on. If it backs up, there you go. But if the toilet does drain, albeit slowly, its more than likely a toilet problem, and I go back to my first statement.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

CopperKing#1g said:


> If the drain works great with the toilet off. I would just buy a Western Toilet tank & bowl both $79. Stay away from new kohler toilets. They flush the worst.
> Assuming this toilet is not a special (High-end model or has a special color)


 haha. serioulsy? Kohler flush worst?


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## CopperKing#1g (Feb 23, 2012)

Take the easy way out Suzie. Replace the toilet. LOL
Yes, most new kohler toilets work well. For sure the older ones. I have a nice one in my house. It's about 5yr old. Maybe because mine style was over $300.
I Just wouldn't recommend them. I've seen many brand new $160. Kohlers with very slow flushes. Kind of sucks, because you can't return them once the box is open. Just my opinion.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

Once found a My Pretty Pony, bar of soap in a toilet that I could not get out with my auger...in my daughters bathroom....


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

I pulled out a disposable camera out of a toilet with my auger lol


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Whats a low end kohler toilet? The wellwoth is the lowest i know of.

From what ive seen u pay for external style. The insides on two piece don,t vary much


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I once found a credit card jammed in the trap! It would flush a few times fine then the card would close totally obstucting the trap. The perfect storm!


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## Hoffmann Family (May 17, 2012)

Got a call for a slow toilet yesterday. It was backed up when I got there so I ran an auger through, that cleared it up but it after a few more flushes with toilet paper it stopped up again. I removed the toilet, tipped it on it's side and broke out the old mirror. Behold, a little white sponge right in the middle of the trap. I ended up getting it out by running the auger through the toilet backwards. Homeowner said it was a "flushable sponge" her husband bought. :no:


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

Hoffmann Family said:


> Got a call for a slow toilet yesterday. It was backed up when I got there so I ran an auger through, that cleared it up but it after a few more flushes with toilet paper it stopped up again. I removed the toilet, tipped it on it's side and broke out the old mirror. Behold, a little white sponge right in the middle of the trap. I ended up getting it out by running the auger through the toilet backwards. Homeowner said it was a "flushable sponge" her husband bought. :no:


LOL we need people like that


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Hoffmann Family said:


> Got a call for a slow toilet yesterday.....


An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

Toto Drake - best bang for the buck 4.9 lpf amazing toilet for the price anything kohler is crap lol


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Pinnacle said:


> Toto Drake - best bang for the buck 4.9 lpf amazing toilet for the price anything kohler is crap lol


 Do you have a toto drake?


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

i used to have 2 elongated and 1 round front but i switched to the toto ultimate


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## plumbtekkk (May 19, 2012)

*what's wrong with the toilet*

if you test by dumping a 5 gal bucket and goes down then there is calcium build up in the ports, replace the w/c and move on.And that's if you have check all the obvious things.


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## drainman (Apr 23, 2010)

*Drainman*

This is how I would handle the problem. First auger the toilet with a general drop head and run it through a few times. When it hangs up turn opposite direction. If that does not work pull toilet and use a 3/8 flex to run water down through the flange to see if drain is stopped if it is clean out with machine. Take toilet outside and run auger through backwards so you can make sure toilet is clear. If none of these work replace toilet. Kohler well worth are great. Before you do all of this check to see if toilet has a jet hole in the bowl and if it is Blocked and if rim holes are blocked these are easy to clean.


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

HOMER said:


> did you run your auger with the toilet removed ?
> or did you run the auger backward from outlet into bowl ?
> run water from supply hose into closet ring opening,then
> dump 5 gallon bucket of water into closet ring opening to test line for stoppage


Well I was going to say this but you beat me to it I do the same thing step by step


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