# d bag plumbing!!!



## justin (May 14, 2010)

it never seems to amaze me ! this was done by master plumber. new house ! come on man ! i know this guy too . 









vertical line is t&p line , horizontal is pan line and that is a check valve. FAIL !!! thought about sending a pic to his insurance policy holder .


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Used to be legal in Fort Worth...It might still be. Looks like it's in the garage anyway.


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

Whaaaaat


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

i don't care if it's legal or not. looks like shiot


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Plumbersteve said:


> i don't care if it's legal or not. looks like shiot


its highly illegal.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

justin said:


> its highly illegal.


t&p is to run independent . period!


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

All I'm tellin' you is...It used to be legal. Not sayin' it's right.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

justin said:


> it never seems to amaze me ! this was done by master plumber. new house ! come on man!...
> 
> vertical line is t&p line , horizontal is pan line and that is a check valve. FAIL...


Heh :laughing: That's pretty funny.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Couldn't they just put the t&p into the pan, then pipe the pan outside?


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Indie said:


> Couldn't they just put the t&p into the pan, then pipe the pan outside?


Even if they allowed that anymore the pan drain wouldn't have a chance of keeping up with the t&p if opened up just halfway.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

playme1979 said:


> Even if they allowed that anymore the pan drain wouldn't have a chance of keeping up with the t&p if opened up just halfway.


If he had run the t&p into the pan, then the drain on the pan would not have needed a check valve, then it would have kept up. We are just arguing the finer points of the install, other than that it sucks turd, and the master on the job should be embarrassed.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Indie said:


> If he had run the t&p into the pan, then the drain on the pan would not have needed a check valve, then it would have kept up. We are just arguing the finer points of the install, other than that it sucks turd, and the master on the job should be embarrassed.


yeah , this plumber is about 60 yrs old and so is his plumbing method.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Okay, I'll bite. What makes it so bad? It does not defeat the function or performance of the T&P.


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## Doubletap (May 5, 2010)

It looks like its 3/4 pex? Isn't the pan drain 1 1/4". Is it ok to reduce the drain? Not my area but I'm just saying.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Okay, I'll bite. What makes it so bad? It does not defeat the function or performance of the T&P.


i cant believe u are asking and your from texas, but ... it states in code it shall be independent of any piping and as straight as possible, no reductions. making a tap leaves possibility of clog or restriction . he may as well just plugged it. 

its not independent , and it is reduced. pex crimp fittings are restrictive, should have used an expanding pex/fitting . rehau wirsboro etc


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

justin said:


> i cant believe u are asking and your from texas, but ... it states in code it shall be independent of any piping and as straight as possible, no reductions. making a tap leaves possibility of clog or restriction . he may as well just plugged it.


It will work. But not rite and it is hack work 
And not to code at all!!!! But better then plugging it !!!! Did you fix it ???


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> It will work. But not rite and it is hack work
> And not to code at all!!!! But better then plugging it !!!! Did you fix it ???


not there to fix. was looking at house for purchase. it failed!!!


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I know what the Code says Justin...I for damn sure don't need the schooling.

What I'm asking is, What's wrong with it? It does not defeat the function of the T&P, plain and simple. Another thing, how many T&P's have you seen either run in 1/2" piping...or for that matter how many have you seen run in 3/8" soft copper and run overhead to boot? The house I live in was built in 1964 and had 3/8 soft copper run overhead and stubbed out of the brick with a cute little 90*...Nary an issue.

We are all grown ups here, right? And we all know that as the Code changes it does not automatically make what has worked in the past obsolete or wrong. We all know that many changes in the Code are dictated by money...not the health and safety of our dear citizens.

IMHO the T&P should have fall more than anything else and be tested annually.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

not to mention pex is rated up to 180 degrees, t&p pops at 210 degrees. it should be piped in copper or galvanized.

just my 2 cents


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Indie said:


> Couldn't they just put the t&p into the pan, then pipe the pan outside?



That's how the roll here. It's strange in AZ they frowned on pans at all.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> I know what the Code says Justin...I for damn sure don't need the schooling.
> 
> What I'm asking is, What's wrong with it? It does not defeat the function of the T&P, plain and simple. Another thing, how many T&P's have you seen either run in 1/2" piping...or for that matter how many have you seen run in 3/8" soft copper and run overhead to boot? The house I live in was built in 1964 and had 3/8 soft copper run overhead and stubbed out of the brick with a cute little 90*...Nary an issue.
> 
> ...


this house is a new build. when i say new build i mean never lived in. 
this is a safety issue . 

sounds like you do need schooling.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Plumb Bob said:


> not to mention pex is rated up to 180 degrees, t&p pops at 210 degrees. it should be piped in copper or galvanized.
> 
> just my 2 cents


Agree and the crimp fitting restricts the flow !!!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

justin said:


> this house is a new build. when i say new build i mean never lived in.
> this is a safety issue .
> 
> sounds like you do need schooling.


O no. Ding ding. Round one !! Seriously let's play nice !! And agree to disagree!! Save it for them Dam Canadians !!! Lol


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> O no. Ding ding. Round one !! Seriously let's play nice !! And agree to disagree!! Save it for them Dam Canadians !!! Lol


lmao. its all good


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

justin said:


> this house is a new build. when i say new build i mean never lived in.
> this is a safety issue .
> 
> sounds like you do need schooling.



I've seen crap that makes that look super. Probably 60-70% of the houses build in the 60s in Tucson have the T&P going up to the roof via swamp cooler duct. No expansion tanks ect. 

If that's the worst thing about the house I'm sure you could have fixed it.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Okay Justin...tell me where you conduct your class. Is it next door to Bobby Doran?...LOL!!!!!

I have by no means condoned decreasing the pipe size...I'm just TELLING you what is out there and that little pic you posted is not a freaking danger!


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Okay Justin...tell me where you conduct your class. Is it next door to Bobby Doran?...LOL!!!!!
> 
> I have by no means condoned decreasing the pipe size...I'm just TELLING you what is out there and that little pic you posted is not a freaking danger!


take it to tsbpe or to your local inspector then . lmao


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## xranger3rdbatt (Feb 14, 2012)

Month or so ago I went to a service call for something and when I went to check the 30 year old water heater I noticed it had a 3/4 plug snugly tighted into the T&P!!! The homeowner said it was dripping so he fixed it!!! After explaining the danger envolved they didnt hesitate to replace the heater.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

justin said:


> take it to tsbpe or to your local inspector then . lmao


Yeah, Yeah! I'm talking real world, practical applications here. If you think I am a hack...give Lackey a call and visit with him...he'll set you straight. I have his cell if you need it.

Where is the house, BTW?


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

If it's a new house, it must have passed final inspection, no?

While we aren't allowed to pipe it up that way, it wouldn't keep the T&P from doing it's job.


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## WaterBoy (Mar 4, 2010)

Wow! Looks like its going into the crawl. i wander if its connected to drain without an air break or gap... or if it is just stubbed into the crawl.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Who's Bobby doran ?? Sound familiar !


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

xranger3rdbatt said:


> Month or so ago I went to a service call for something and when I went to check the 30 year old water heater I noticed it had a 3/4 plug snugly tighted into the T&P!!! The homeowner said it was dripping so he fixed it!!! After explaining the danger envolved they didnt hesitate to replace the heater.


Whole different animal...not even relevant in this discussion. However, that is dangerous.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I thought the pan drain must be 1 size larger than the heater supply line.

Also, as much as I like pex, it is a poor material for a pan drain as any debris that enters the drain from the pan can catch on the fittings. Relief line, sure. Pan drain, no.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

WaterBoy said:


> Wow! Looks like its going into the crawl. i wander if its connected to drain without an air break or gap... or if it is just stubbed into the crawl.


It's supposed to be stubbed outside and 90 down and terminate 6" above grade by code!!


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I'll tell you something else...it wasn't too long back that in Fort Worth...If the heater was in the middle of the building it could be piped up and out...stick that in your pipe...


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

nevermind


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> It's supposed to be stubbed outside and 90 down and terminate 6" above grade by code!!


Between 6" and 12"...Right? And not on a sidewalk or next to a door...etc.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm not saying it's not in the Code. I'm saying it is not a danger.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Pans is suppose to be 1" PVC copper or cpvc t&p is copper or cpvc 3/4 but not PVC or pex. And must not have pex with in 18" of water heater. Just saying More hack work !!!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

If your offended by that then stay wherever you are. Here in Indiana we can just let it go on the floor. What is worse is in the sticks, where code is a stranger. Many times the t&p is piped through floor into a crawlspace, where the homeowner has no clue the thing is blowing off, or leaking. :furious:

Had that argument with my old boss I can't tell you how many times. He wouldn't spend the money and time on a pan, and would say "If the drain goes above floor level it will make a mess if it goes off."


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## WaterBoy (Mar 4, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> It's supposed to be stubbed outside and 90 down and terminate 6" above grade by code!!


We have to run it to a floor drain with the 6'' above floor drain.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Indie said:


> If your offended by that then stay wherever you are. Here in Indiana we can just let it go on the floor. What is worse is in the sticks, where code is a stranger. Many times the t&p is piped through floor into a crawlspace, where the homeowner has no clue the thing is blowing off, or leaking. :furious:
> 
> Had that argument with my old boss I can't tell you how many times. He wouldn't spend the money and time on a pan, and would say "If the drain goes above floor level it will make a mess if it goes off."


If a t&p pops of and no one is around to here it does it still make a sound ?? Lol


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

They are doing new homes with electric WH with all pex here. In AZ no pex/wirsbo outside the wall.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I found it Bobby teaches ce class. I take roland blackstocks class. From phcc. Just had it Saturday he is retiring tho. His feet arnt doin well. Never had Bobby does he suck ??


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

That is home hacked up in shoit in the OP, that wouldn't pass here

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Keefer w (Jan 26, 2012)

Hack is hack. Ky says pan only required in an attic. T& p can only be stubbed to floor if there is floor drain in same room and must be 3" from ground. If it is ran up and out must be trapped with relief hole in base of trap


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## Rnicplumb (Dec 30, 2011)

I would think that water simply draining out of a pan wouldn't have the pressure needed to open the check valve


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## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

Not suppose to trap any t/p line! Common sense would be, to run t/p into vrticle tee with a 12" drop nipple capped and a pee hole drilled in the cap so it can weep out any water that might be remaining in the vertical piping.:thumbup:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

So, the swing check is there to prevent the T&P from backing up into the pan if it pops off, right?

Much like that Rnic feller, I have my doubts that the flow from a ruptured vessel would be enough to open up the gate on the swing check.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Rnicplumb said:


> I would think that water simply draining out of a pan wouldn't have the pressure needed to open the check valve


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## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

That would pass around here

Sent from my iPhon


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> So, the swing check is there to prevent the T&P from backing up into the pan if it pops off, right?
> 
> Much like that Rnic feller, I have my doubts that the flow from a ruptured vessel would be enough to open up the gate on the swing check.


I agree, however the argument is that the T&P should not have anything tied into it...And while that may be code in some places...It in no way hinders the function of the T&P discharge line. And as far as a ruptured vessel goes, there ain't a pan that will contain that.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

That doesn't meet code here; T&P discharge line has to be dedicated only to the T&P. It can't have a 'tee' fitting in the T&P discharge line.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> That doesn't meet code here; T&P discharge line has to be dedicated only to the T&P. It can't have a 'tee' fitting in the T&P discharge line.


yeah , im in texas and it doesent meet code here either . just saying .

had to fix to clarify .


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

it wouldnt pass here, and it looks stupid.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Pans is suppose to be 1" PVC copper or cpvc t&p is copper or cpvc 3/4 but not PVC or pex. And must not have pex with in 18" of water heater. Just saying More hack work !!!


18" of an atmospheric gas heater, that one's electric. The whole point is not to protect from the heat of the water, but the heat of the flue pipe as the heater is running. No flue in an electric or power vent heater. You can come right off the top in PEX.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> 18" of an atmospheric gas heater, that one's electric. The whole point is not to protect from the heat of the water, but the heat of the flue pipe as the heater is running. No flue in an electric or power vent heater. You can come right off the top in PEX.


Good point !!!


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## seanny deep (Jan 28, 2012)

18" here elctric or gas yet guys get away with a 12" stainless braided supply no dielectric unions pissed me off 75% of the tanks I see don't even have expansion tanks really makes you look bad when you give a qoute for new shutoff, vacuam breaker, pan " most don't have those either." Expansion tank, dump fee ect ect. And then they call Mr hack he hooks them up with a cheap tank and two braided supplies and two sharkbites. Doesn't even pipe the releif valve to the floor. And then the homeowner recommends him and puts your name thru the mud...


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

seanny deep said:


> 18" here elctric or gas yet guys get away with a 12" stainless braided supply no dielectric unions pissed me off 75% of the tanks I see don't even have expansion tanks really makes you look bad when you give a qoute for new shutoff, vacuam breaker, pan " most don't have those either." Expansion tank, dump fee ect ect. And then they call Mr hack he hooks them up with a cheap tank and two braided supplies and two sharkbites. Doesn't even pipe the releif valve to the floor. And then the homeowner recommends him and puts your name thru the mud...


Do all the houses in your area have a backflow preventer on them? You don't really need an expansion tank if the water can expand back into the main. We very rarely use expansion tanks around here. We also don't need vacuum breakers unless the heater is installed 20' above any fixure served by the heater. 99% of heaters here are in a basement so that really isn't an issue.


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## xyleman (Feb 2, 2011)

seanny deep said:


> 18" here elctric or gas yet guys get away with a 12" stainless braided supply no dielectric unions pissed me off 75% of the tanks I see don't even have expansion tanks really makes you look bad when you give a qoute for new shutoff, vacuam breaker, pan " most don't have those either." Expansion tank, dump fee ect ect. And then they call Mr hack he hooks them up with a cheap tank and two braided supplies and two sharkbites. Doesn't even pipe the releif valve to the floor. And then the homeowner recommends him and puts your name thru the mud...


18" of copper is just good practice and on gas a no brainer never seen it in code or is it the AHJ in your area? That being said every tank elec or gas i do is copper.


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