# Never mess with a SMITH dip tube....



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

maybe everyone knows about this already but I did not and found out the hard way...... Smith dip tubes are extra special and you basically 
have to have that exact replacement part....


I had a 2 year old SMith electric water heater leaking at the corroded nipple on top of the unit..... It has a brass mixing valve on it and it would not stop leaking no matter what I did.....

I cut the line thinking I would install a new dip tube on the heater but to my surprise and horror the stupid diptube nipple was over 6 inches long and buried deep down in about 5 inches of Styrofoam.... :surprise:

the dip tube I had only had about a 3 inch nipple on it..... so I was in trouble... with no supply house within 30 miles

I had that exact size dialectric nipple in my truck and it turned out that the plastic dip tube literally fit perfectly tight into the inside of that pipe.....so I basically made a dip tube by combining both together and ramming and glueing the plastic tube up into the bottom side of the nipple

I thought I had won and tried to put this all back together but the new tube was too large to go into the heater...... for some reason the dumbasses at SMIITH decided to make their dip tubes about 1/8 smaller than all normal dip tubes on the market....and they had a stopper built into the bottom of the threaded shank preventing anything bigger to go through the hole:crying:.

I had to take a long sharp chisel and literally nip away at the metal lip 6 inches down that was preventing me from getting that tube down into the heater......

I finally won for better or worse...... and put the whole thing back together.. I am pretty sure it did not damage the heater...

I have been carrying around my standard common sized dip tubes for probably 5 years in my truck and have never, ever needed one until I stumbled into this mess TODAY...
so this was a learning experience I dont want to repeat



https://photos.app.goo.gl/e9DzUnpWB5grM8W59


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Good to know! Thanks Mark! I hate how Smith does stuff like that....


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Back in April 1998 A.O. Smith and other WH manufactures purchased dip tubes from a manufacture that had a bad run of the plastic 1993 - 1997. The company I worked for were a rep for our area. There were disintegrating and the particles were plugging up aerators, dishwashers & washer. We do a lot of calls around my area. People had no idea. Many ended up having to repair or replace dishwashers & washers.

The news didn't really go public. If we were called we did a simple swap out and cleared aerators. The rest was on the home owner.

I ended up letting the local news know about it. That damaged caused should have been paid for by the manufacture if they submitted a claim.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

I have a confession,
I have never changed a dip tube, in fact I rarely work on HWTs, unless it’s a swap out. 
Then again, about 1/2 the residential water heaters in Toronto are rented from the gas companies.
$20-$30/month, which is crazy if you do the math, over the life time of the tank. They do not install or are responsible for mixing valves.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Logtec said:


> I have a confession,
> I have never changed a dip tube, in fact I rarely work on HWTs, unless it’s a swap out.
> Then again, about 1/2 the residential water heaters in Toronto are rented from the gas companies.
> $20-$30/month, which is crazy if you do the math, over the life time of the tank. They do not install or are responsible for mixing valves.



not crazy for the profits of the gas company..people are stupid, all they look at is whats the monthly cost, not the total cost, just give them a payment plan they can afford and you can rip them off with never ending payments...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I never replaced a dip tube or anode and I probably never will do that because once you do you just purchased their problem, you just stepped into their forever frustration. For example customers will blame you if the smell comes back if you replace or remove the anode or blame you the water heater didn't last another 70 years.

They also presume you will now warranty their water heater. Another example, you replaced toilet tank bolts and notice it still leaks and see the porcelain is cracked. They blame you that you broke it. Same for kitchen P-traps, you fix something and the nut on the trap breaks they blame me. Never mind it so damn old and brittle. I got blamed last night and I almost went off on the guy.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Logtec said:


> I have a confession,
> I have never changed a dip tube, in fact I rarely work on HWTs, unless it’s a swap out. .






Tango said:


> I never replaced a dip tube or anode and I probably never will do that because once you do you just purchased their problem, you just stepped into their forever frustration. For example customers will blame you if the smell comes back if you replace or remove the anode or blame you the water heater didn't last another 70 years.






We rarely change dip tubes too. Often the steel nipple or bung will be too rusted or brittle to handle a nipple change out. I have seen at least one where we took out the drain and added a tee and just connected the cold there. Then we capped the original cold connection at the copper. It's best to change the whole heater most of the time.







Tango said:


> They also presume you will now warranty their water heater. Another example, you replaced toilet tank bolts and notice it still leaks and see the porcelain is cracked. They blame you that you broke it. Same for kitchen P-traps, you fix something and the nut on the trap breaks they blame me. Never mind it so damn old and brittle. I got blamed last night and I almost went off on the guy.





When I mess with trap/tubular piping under a sink I usually change everything between the bottom of the basket and the trap adapter. Often I change the basket too. I use the white poly tubular stuff. Chromed tubular brass is a thing of the past, it just don't last if it ain't cast. It doesn't have that good lead anymore which seems to help a lot with corrosion.


When I do use chromed tubular stuff it's from WB and I refuse to use the zinc nuts, only cast or machined nuts. 



The WB sink baskets come with rough brass nuts on the bottom and often I don't use them because I use the poly stuff. So I have a bag of extra brass nuts for when someone needs just one.




Really it should all still be threaded cast brass traps 


https://www.mcguiremfg.com/204csan-1-1/2-x-2-ips-204csan


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

I once shut off a water heater and commenced changing dip tube... go to turn gas valve back on... thing wouldn't fire up... had to open fire box and clean the flame sensor.. 

You guys are so right look at the install date 6 years or older new tank... 

And now with flammable vapor sensors there is like 5-6 different valves each has a sequence to reset and sometimes it dont work anyways... 

Have a had a few times something leaks and trips out on flammable vapor have to screw around with too much effort.. another company I know just changes gas valve every time a flammable vapour trips out at over 5-600 bucks a shot

When we do installs usually Bradford white though or rheem... I prefer honeywell gas valves anyday over white Rodgers or whatever else out there


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> maybe everyone knows about this already but I did not and found out the hard way...... Smith dip tubes are extra special and you basically
> have to have that exact replacement part....
> 
> 
> ...


If I need a dip tube I use a piece of soft copper and use my flaring tool to slightly enlarge the head of the copper,seems to work everytime


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> If I need a dip tube I use a piece of soft copper and use my flaring tool to slightly enlarge the head of the copper,seems to work everytime





I have done that in the past too..... long, long ago... I dont carry a flaring tool around with me any more...... 

on another note,, the water heater got removed on friday afternoon due to other issues going on with it...

the homeowner got tired of fooling with it so it was all for nothing.....


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I can say I never repaired a WH I only replace them, its not worth the time diking around and fixing 1 problem only to have another one creep up, if the people dont want to spend the $$ then adios, get someone else...
usually after you explain why to replace 99% agree and go with it....
if its a warranty issue then thats a different story and the heater would be almost brand new..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I can say I never repaired a WH I only replace them, its not worth the time diking around and fixing 1 problem only to have another one creep up, if the people dont want to spend the $$ then adios, get someone else...
> usually after you explain why to replace 99% agree and go with it....
> if its a warranty issue then thats a different story and the heater would be almost brand new..


I used to try and change only the element but then it could be a thermostat and it would end up getting me a call back. I was lucky not to get a call back, So once I heard some guys here replace all parts I decided to do the same or for a few hundreds more to get a new one. I only get a 40% of them wanting to replace it when they are defective. 60% decide to call someone else.


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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

I started repairing wtr/htrs as soon as I got out of the AIR FORCE working
under my Plumbing Mentor, where I learned Warranty Service for MFG'S,
I have done warranty service for all the National MFG'S, Including
the 15 years that I ran my own shop in L.A. 
I found that I not only made money at it, But got many referrals for
other Plumbing work, which was the point,


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

I repair water heaters all the time.
30 days warranty on parts I provide, No warranty on customer supplied parts.

I’m getting a minimum $300 plus parts and the others guys won’t touch it.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Fatpat said:


> I repair water heaters all the time.
> 30 days warranty on parts I provide, No warranty on customer supplied parts.
> 
> I’m getting a minimum $300 plus parts and the others guys won’t touch it.



In my world this is what could happen...

You install an element and the guy calls saying it now leaks. You go there and try and try it still leaks. Now he'll argue you have to buy him a new water heater because it wasn't leaking before. You might say hey your heater 's flange is rusty and I have nothing to do with the leak. Now he'll dangle a formal complaint on your A$$ and you'll spend 40 hours writing a letter about the issue not being your fault and you get summoned to appear in kangaroo court. Then with that complaint you are in bigger trouble with over 21K in fines because you touched the electrical wires to access the element.

Not worth 300$.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Fatpat said:


> I repair water heaters all the time.
> 30 days warranty on parts I provide, No warranty on customer supplied parts.
> 
> I’m getting a minimum $300 plus parts and the others guys won’t touch it.


See for that kind of money just as well replace the heater UNLESS it's under 5yrs old,then I repair


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> In my world this is what could happen...
> 
> You install an element and the guy calls saying it now leaks. You go there and try and try it still leaks. Now he'll argue you have to buy him a new water heater because it wasn't leaking before. You might say hey your heater 's flange is rusty and I have nothing to do with the leak. Now he'll dangle a formal complaint on your A$$ and you'll spend 40 hours writing a letter about the issue not being your fault and you get summoned to appear in kangaroo court. Then with that complaint you are in bigger trouble with over 21K in fines because you touched the electrical wires to access the element.
> 
> Not worth 300$.


How do you change out an electric water heater if you aren't allowed to touch the electrical wires???i always wire up my water heaters unless it new construction then electrician will do final hook up


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> How do you change out an electric water heater if you aren't allowed to touch the electrical wires???i always wire up my water heaters unless it new construction then electrician will do final hook up


You know you are too smart. :sad2:

I decided a few months ago if someone calls saying they don't have hot water I tell them I'll replace it but if they want it checked out to call an electrician.


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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

Tango said:


> In my world this is what could happen...
> 
> You install an element and the guy calls saying it now leaks. You go there and try and try it still leaks. Now he'll argue you have to buy him a new water heater because it wasn't leaking before. You might say hey your heater 's flange is rusty and I have nothing to do with the leak. Now he'll dangle a formal complaint on your A$$ and you'll spend 40 hours writing a letter about the issue not being your fault and you get summoned to appear in kangaroo court. Then with that complaint you are in bigger trouble with over 21K in fines because you touched the electrical wires to access the element.
> 
> Not worth 300$.


You sure got some fxxk consumer laws in your hood, and I thought that CALIF,
was the worst :devil3:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

MASTRPLUMB said:


> You sure got some fxxk consumer laws in your hood, and I thought that CALIF,
> was the worst :devil3:


I didn't know you could swear! If you only knew the other laws I have to navigate every day. It's impossible to play by the book or all the contractors would be in jail even the customers who hire me.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

When I get people calling talking about replacing dip tubes and/or anode rods, I always steer the conversation away from that to replacing the entire tank since it's out of warranty, sometimes moving the tank is just enough with an old tank to cause it to spring a leak, why put money into an old tank only to wind up replacing it shortly which is throwing good money after bad, etc. 

I don't want to work on an old, out-of-warranty W/H.



And I'm not trying to just upsell and get a higher price. I don't want problems coming back to bite me. Now I will replace thermocouples on gas tanks, and I'll replace elements and t-stats on elec. tanks. *But the answer is 'no' to anode rods and dip tubes.
*



By the way, just so some of you know {some of you probably already know} with AO Smith gas W/H's, if your customer wants a 10-year warranty on the tank, AO Smith sells you an extra anode rod. I had to remove the factory-installed nipple on the W/H { cold side or hot I can't remember now} and install the extra anode rod which is attached to a long nipple. It then sticks up higher than the other nipple which makes it pretty easy to see that the extra anode rod was installed. Plus, I put a sticker on the tank stating that it has an extra few years on the tank. If the tanks come w/ a 6-year warranty, then the sticker said extra 4 years. If the tanks come w/ a 5-year warranty, then the sticker said extra 5 years. I don't remember which one.


But here's my point; the nipple that I installed was a little crooked after I cranked it in with Teflon tape and pipe dope. I was hoping that was because the tap was slightly crooked in the top of the tank. It turned out my install was good and it didn't leak from the connection where I installed the extra anode rod. But I don't like messing with factory installed nipples on tanks because you may have just voided the warranty or accepted all future liability. 


Sorry for the long-winded post.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

repairing electric water heaters in our area is fairly
good work ...... I never ever fool with either the anode rods or the dip tubes.... 

this one was an exception because it was badly corroded and was leaking at the connection to one of those mixing units they throw on top of heaters to beef up the volume of hot water


normally I change both elements, and both thermostats and clean out the lime from a heater if its under 10 years old and charge about 399 I tell the people that the heater has been "re-furbrished" and I tell them I have no idea how much longer the unit will last before it leaks......

every one seems happy....


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

sparky said:


> How do you change out an electric water heater if you aren't allowed to touch the electrical wires???i always wire up my water heaters unless it new construction then electrician will do final hook up





Technically yes electricians should be wiring electric hot water heaters. Technically you need an electrician and a plumber for each hot water heater, well pump, sewage pump, some sump pumps, most dishwashers, etc.....






*"Technically"*





.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

skoronesa said:


> Technically yes electricians should be wiring electric hot water heaters. Technically you need an electrician and a plumber for each hot water heater, well pump, sewage pump, some sump pumps, most dishwashers, etc.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Either the Canadians are all just a bunch of p******s, or the plumber that claims he cant wire a water heater because he will get into trouble is simply too much of a worry-wart and needs to get over it....... this is all just every day common sense stuff that someone in business for himself simply has to do to survive....or flounder .......as a business....


I have had to change out breakers before because one was bad, if it was a common type of breaker then it was never an issue with me............ 
I got some very old "odd ball --hard to find breakers" from the early 60s in my own home that I had to order used ones off of E-bay and had to man up and install them into my breaker box,,,...... sometimes you do what you got to do 
........TO WIN.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

Lol were not p*****s... and technically if an appliance has a switch your allowed to wire to the switch.. they now go over basic electrical theory in apprenticeship...

Not sure if it's part of the curriculum but our school did it as the the teachers said its essential...

I'm a gas fitter so you go over electrical and how relays and controls work..

If your a gas fitter your allowed to work to the appliance switch but not allowed to wire in to the panel... 

But honestly if you dont know how to wire the appliance than dont do the job.. like even a dish washer is hard wired 90% of time... but If I'm getting an electrician to job.. it's getting dedicated outlet.. so you can wire it to a cord and plug it into a proper gfi outlet

If it's a fused panel I'd probably recommend an electrician before I even start.. just because of the fact of what was said.. if you run into a pickle your screwed...

If it was my own house I'd install a new panel and re wire the entire house...

before I did plumbing I was a helper for an electrician and used to wire a house a day.. I kind of think electrical may have been a better route to take but I dont regret it


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Venomthirst said:


> Lol were not p*****s...


You tell him! They may be allowed to carry guns into customer's houses but we can kill people with kindness. Now that's impressive!:whistling2:

No seriously they kill us with hefty fines. I don't think most of you have a million laws where anyone can easily file a complaint and have all those entities allowed to walk in your house without notice and gather all evidence against you.

When is the last time a lawyer tested you to entrap you? I've been tested I'm pretty sure 3 times on the phone. All it takes is a conversation and bam you are toast.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Remember language.

Our State does not have requirement for certification to do any electrical work. Some communities do. If they do they must provide testing or recognize other certificating facilities.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

GAN said:


> Remember language.
> 
> Our State does not have requirement for certification to do any electrical work. Some communities do. If they do they must provide testing or recognize other certificating facilities.


Master mark started it lol


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Venomthirst said:


> Master mark started it lol




started what??? 

I thank god I live in a the USA where you are not bound and gagged by red tape ..... It amazes me that in Canada anyone can go to lowes and buy anything from water heaters to breaker boxes and do the work themselves from start to finish .... even if they do not know their asses from a hole in the ground

but supposedly someone like Tango who has basic all around knowledge cannot touch or repair an electric heater without getting into trouble for it..... 

seems like a double standard to me.....


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> started what???
> 
> I thank god I live in a the USA where you are not bound and gagged by red tape ..... It amazes me that in Canada anyone can go to lowes and buy anything from water heaters to breaker boxes and do the work themselves from start to finish .... even if they do not know their asses from a hole in the ground
> 
> ...


That's Quebec not Canada... Ontario has different rules.. Tango is just a by the book kind of guy.. and I dont blame him in some cases.. I just do what I'm told to do in most circumstances..

Legit suppliers will not sell you anything related to gas unless you are a certificate holder... majority of big box stores only sell appliance connectors for gas maybe some black pipe and fittings..

As a homeowner you can do anything you want but if your house burns down or blows up your probably not covered under insurance

I went in to a supplier for York furnaces.. my friends furnace broke down so I went over hsi was shot so I took it down to the supplier I dont have an account and they didn't want to sell to me I said why not.. he said because your a home owner trying to work on a gas appliance.. 

I said I'm a g2 gas fitter here my liscence he said oh okay heres the part we have your stuff on file and you now have an account here if you ever need anything let me give you the after hours number in case of emergency.. like above and beyond..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> started what???
> 
> I thank god I live in a the USA where you are not bound and gagged by red tape ..... It amazes me that in Canada anyone can go to lowes and buy anything from water heaters to breaker boxes and do the work themselves from start to finish .... even if they do not know their asses from a hole in the ground
> 
> ...



You're damn right it's a double standard. The ministry loves to fine contractors but they don't fine home owners. Did you know a home owner who renovates his bathroom and hires each trade individually needs a owner's GC licence. They are supposed to carry workman's comp and register his contractors and many things. Those who build their own house need the same licence. 

The ministry turns a blind eye on them even that when I followed my courses the teacher told us a home owner did just that hired each trade for a major reno without licencing and acting as a GC, a guy broke a leg or something well the ministry did nothing. If it would of been a contractor though, he'd be in deep $hit from several sources.


It's too easy to file a complaint and they have a justice department with lawyers sharpening their knives preying on contractors. It's their full time job! At the hearing there was another contractor who was up on charges because he and his employees hooked up a furnace when they replaced an old unit and reconnected the wires. A competitor who hated him had filed the complaint and turned him in. He was facing those same 4 judges for the disciplinary action that would surely come with a fine from the pipe mechanics and criminal charges along with a hefty fine from the electrician's association for not having a Master Electrician licence. 

Poor bas tard who replaces a gas boiler, he better carry a whole deck of licences.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

GAN said:


> Remember language.
> 
> Our State does not have requirement for certification to do any electrical work. Some communities do. If they do they must provide testing or recognize other certificating facilities.





Pussy is just short for pussy cat. Calling some one a pussy is just another way of calling them a scaredy cat.


It can also be a euphemism for vagina.


I for one, am just fine with the presence of pussy on this site, feline or otherwise :biggrin:










.


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Pussy is just short for pussy cat. Calling some one a pussy is just another way of calling them a scaredy cat.
> 
> 
> It can also be a euphemism for vagina.
> ...


I agree. Does poltical correctness have to come here too? One of the reasons I come here is because guys can talk like we do in real life, more or less. The software aleady takes care of the real swears.


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

> You're damn right it's a double standard. The ministry loves to fine contractors but they don't fine home owners.


We have the same thing in some parts of the US too. The state boards have no juristiction over homeowners and handymen, so they go unregulated. They have no licenses to take, yet we do something minor which is seen as not covered by our license, and we could face consequences. No one ever said life is fair.

The supply house restrictions only go so far, and that security is only as good as the mood of the $16 an hour kid at the counter. I've seen laborers who pick up supplies under their boss's license all the time, without question. They are known by sight by the counter staff, who soon forget if they are a laborer or a master. The guy comes in on Saturday to pick up supplies for a side job, and pays for it out of pocket. They don't even think to ask for his license. They see him every day and know that he's in the trade somehow, so that's enough.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

the bottom line for enforcement equals revenue $$$$$...the hack or home owner usually has nothing to go after or take away to make them pay fines, so they are mostly left alone..but the person in business with licenses and insurance are prime target for enforcement/ revenue.....so they get fined for not doing it 100% by the book...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

goeswiththeflow said:


> We have the same thing in some parts of the US too. The state boards have no juristiction over homeowners and handymen, so they go unregulated. They have no licenses to take, yet we do something minor which is seen as not covered by our license, and we could face consequences. No one ever said life is fair.
> 
> The supply house restrictions only go so far, and that security is only as good as the mood of the $16 an hour kid at the counter. I've seen laborers who pick up supplies under their boss's license all the time, without question. They are known by sight by the counter staff, who soon forget if they are a laborer or a master. The guy comes in on Saturday to pick up supplies for a side job, and pays for it out of pocket. They don't even think to ask for his license. They see him every day and know that he's in the trade somehow, so that's enough.



In my province all company trucks have to have their licence number on them except plumbers or electrician (We need to put the logo on instead). You would be amazed all those unlettered trucks that go to the supply house. I think they sell more plumbing and electrical stuff to hacks and GC who illegally do their own plumbing.

I think unlettered trucks outnumber 10 : 1


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

goeswiththeflow said:


> I agree. Does poltical correctness have to come here too? One of the reasons I come here is because guys can talk like we do in real life, more or less. The software aleady takes care of the real swears.


Yes...I refrain a lot from speaking my mind in this place. I often times use synonyms instead.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> I agree. Does poltical correctness have to come here too? One of the reasons I come here is because guys can talk like we do in real life, more or less. The software aleady takes care of the real swears.






My issue with @*GAN* telling him to remember his language and not say "pu$$ies" is that he wasn't being mean to anyone. A pussy can be a term for someone who is too scared to do something. Yes it refers to women being less likely to perform an action because of femininity but that isn't an insult, it's a reality. Men and women are, and should be, equals in our society. But there's a reason women don't do "man stuff" anywhere near as often as men do.


Banning a word does nothing to stop the issue of people being mean to others. They just learn to keep their mean opinions to themselves when around certain people and often fortifies their poor thoughts.



If you tell someone they shouldn't be sexist they will fight you. Explain why what they said was wrong and you'll make a positive difference.



I would love for women to be plumbers, riflemen, garbage collectors, etc..., but they don't want to and that is fine and that is why it's a stereotype. That's what a fricken stereotype is!!!!! A stereotype is not an insult, it's just a common set of characteristics pertaining to a group.


Yes some people will use stereotypes to insult others but that doesn't mean we should ban all stereotypes!


I don't care who you are or what your background, if you really are just making a joke to be funny, whether it's funny or not to others, you shouldn't be persecuted for not being a comedic genius. Just because someone is "offended" by a joke I make does not mean I was telling that joke to be offensive.












.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

I know a few women that are plumbers and they are great... 

They have good attention to detail.. they both smaller in stature so they can fit into those tight spots... they are good at what they do in the trade..

However they aren't expected to lug around huge sewer machines or lengths of cast piping..

The one plumber works for us and she is incredibly tough.. I've seen her do some great feats of strength for someone weighing 125lbs..

She is great help for getting in spots that are harder for me and majority of other guys to get into..

Her work is very neat clean and professional and she is an asset to our company... I like working with her but very rarely get the chance to.. 

I also know another women who is an elevator mechanic and incredibly beautiful.. every time I see her covered in grease and does all the hard work elevator rebuilds huge motors and such..

When I went to school had a women in our class.. probably best plumber there shes an unionized industrial plumber and can cut and thread faster than anyone I've ever seen and perfect fits.. she was done her projects for 2 months in 3 days..

I dont think I GAN was offended I just think he wants to keep the forum professional and we should act like professionals... no trash talking trucker mouthing.. 

Now dont get me wrong I swear constantly but I try to minimize it because we should really to use more descriptive vocabulary than cussing and slurs


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