# Selling Sewer Repair



## Doubletap (May 5, 2010)

Ok...I want to a be an honest guy. I really want to solve peoples problems and get a fair price. I have heard two different opinions on roots in a pipe.

1st- All roots got in through a break in a pipe. All breaks should be repaired. Anything less is half measures.

2nd- Grind em up...flush em out....repeat. This is what most customers expect. 

Right now I sell sewer repair/ replacement jobs and work with a card holding master to get the work done. Many of the lines I run are in questionable status in my opinion. The roots are getting in at the junctions in the clay pipe or iron pipe.


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## Mr Sewer (Oct 3, 2011)

I see it like this roots come in from joints of clay pipe those joints are held up by rubber hubs in time like everything else those hubs will fail & thats when the problem begains


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

I like to inform the Customer that root intrusions are a chronic problem.
They are not going to get better over time.

We can fix it now or fix it later. 
" Later " is always going to cost more than " Now ".

That being said, I have NO problem coming out every few months and clearing the line.
I have one customer that calls me about every 4 or 5 months to clear their sewer.
I have collected over $1500 in the last 3 years from them.

Some times it just comes down to the customer not having a lump sum to fix it right, but can afford to cable every few months.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Here is what you can do;


Discover what they have already paid towards cleaning and clearing the roots. Discover how frequent the drain cleaning has happened. An example 3 times per year times 5 years equals 15 times now multiply that times the amount. Add those dollars up and then show those dollars compared to the dollars of a new building sewer. Then show the customer how much they will spend on average by doing nothing for the next 5 years other than using a drain machine.

Should be a natural conclusion.


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## Doubletap (May 5, 2010)

I like those solutions I didn't get into this business to rob people and I want to offer people real solutions.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Here is what you can do;
> 
> 
> Discover what they have already paid towards cleaning and clearing the roots. Discover how frequent the drain cleaning has happened. An example 3 times per year times 5 years equals 15 times now multiply that times the amount. Add those dollars up and then show those dollars compared to the dollars of a new building sewer. Then show the customer how much they will spend on average by doing nothing for the next 5 years other than using a drain machine.
> ...


Ive done that already. 
At this point they have paid for 1/3 of the cost to replace.
But like I said, if they don't have the money , they don't have the money.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

If they do not have the money help them set up a budget to get the money to get the job done. 

Be their lay away program.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

Set up a budget? Some people just can't afford the extra expense period. They don't need another monkey on their back. In this situation, sometimes they have freinds or volunteers to do the digging for you or whatever labor is needed.

And then there are the fakers, you have to try to see for yourself whether they really can't afford it or they are just beating you up on the price.

I would not feel too good about knowing that there were customers of mine who were cutting back on things they need just so I could live the high life of a plumber (small portion of sarcasm here).


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## Anonymous (Jan 7, 2012)

Give them two choices

This much to replace the sewer

or 

This much a year to keep coming back

Either way you make money.....

It all depends how bad the the crack or break is in the pipe. Some customers my only see you twice or once a year to clear the roots....

As your trips become more frequent to clear the line they will ask for the sewer replacement


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

Get a camera and show them the problem. Let them look over your shoulder.

We fairly religiously charge for camera work but if I knew there was a problem and the customer seemed reluctant to accept it I think I would be willing to haul out the camera if I thought it might clarify things. However if you have any sales skills whatsoever and there is a history of problems you can offer to camera for X dollars to find out what's going on. Either way you can do it but its hard to convince people once the line is draining that there are still roots at the joints.

I am not an old hand but in my experience a video is worth it's weight in gold. Then you can say, look, the line is open but there are still roots, should I do more cleaning? Jetting? Do you want a quote on replacement? Would you be interested in a yearly application of RootX?

You don't have to be pushy, and you don't have to be dishonest. You don't have to _chain yourself to the kitchen table _, but if you provide good options for them to choose from you still will make money.

The only way you can cross the line into dishonesty is when you start selling for the sake of selling, and pitching products or services that are not necessary. For example, you mentioned selling replacements. If the camera shows one bad joint and you try to sell a replacement, you are dishonest IMO. Only a spot repair is needed. On the other hand, hard selling maintenance jetting and/or RootX when a replacement is the obvoius answer due to every joint being full of roots is questionable as well. However, if you tell them the problem, lay out all the repair/maintenance options, and quote all the different prices, and they choose the short-term bandaid, then your conscience is free as far as I am concerned.

And there's nothing wrong with explaning the advantages and encouraging them to go with the long term solution, I just couldn't feel right about shoving it down their throat as the ONLY solution. 

Rant over. Sorry, been sitting at the computer since 11 this morning figuring taxes, and my brain is fuzzy and my eyes hurt and I'm feeling sort of.............................


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

SewerRat said:


> Get a camera and show them the problem. Let them look over your shoulder.
> 
> We fairly religiously charge for camera work but if I knew there was a problem and the customer seemed reluctant to accept it I think I would be willing to haul out the camera if I thought it might clarify things. However if you have any sales skills whatsoever and there is a history of problems you can offer to camera for X dollars to find out what's going on. Either way you can do it but its hard to convince people once the line is draining that there are still roots at the joints.
> 
> ...


Well said. The camera is one of my favorite tools for showing the problems. I also like to take one into attics or crawlspaces too.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

If they have roots in the line it is compromised no doubt about it...
Somewhere there is a repair that can be made...
Does it have to be made today? :whistling2:

Unless the customer is a regular customer of yours, you know the history of the line, and have inspected the line with a camera, there is no baseline to go off.

We all know all drain cleaners are not created equal... :laughing:
They range from try a blow bag and sell a new line, on through the poke a hole specialist, and up to the top notch cleaners. Who has he been using?

First off and foremost you were called to clean the line and get the customer draining again.
Give them your best shot!
Unless while cleaning you determine you are whipping the dead horse get the line cleaned, and give the customer relief from their drain problem.

Based on what you see while cleaning and the subsequent camera inspection give the customer their options. Show the customer their line with the camera and offer your opinion and guidance towards what they need done.

Options may include:

Cleaning the line again when it clogs. This will hasten the deterioration of the line by additional growth of the established roots.
Yearly applications of Root-X and additional line cleanings when needed. This will give them the maximum amount of time between cleanings and until line repair or, replacement is forced.
Spot repair if warranted.
Line replacement if warranted. With trenchless replacement such as bursting and relining as options even if you do not provide that service, if there are extensive obstacles to excavation that will drive up the customer's total cost on the job. (I appreciate the new sewer line but that new retaining wall and the garage we had to tear down was a little much. :laughing: )

Your honesty and integrity will keep them as your customer and keep you doing their work. There is a reason why they stopped calling the last guy. He's no longer cleaning their line, and doesn't have a shot at the repair or, replacement work. Each additional cleaning offers more of a baseline and an additional chance to sell that repair or, replacement.

Or, you can chain yourself to the table and hope it works... 

Either way you go you may be surprised by the choice of the customer...


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

SewerRat said:


> Get a camera and show them the problem. Let them look over your shoulder.
> 
> We fairly religiously charge for camera work but if I knew there was a problem and the customer seemed reluctant to accept it I think I would be willing to haul out the camera if I thought it might clarify things. However if you have any sales skills whatsoever and there is a history of problems you can offer to camera for X dollars to find out what's going on. Either way you can do it but its hard to convince people once the line is draining that there are still roots at the joints.
> 
> ...


 

 I kind of agree with this thought. The difference and why I state kind of is price a spot repair and price a sewer repair. Let the customer make the decision. When the customer asks if the spot repair will take care of the issue and it will you must say yes the spot repair will take care of the immediate issue. My experience tells me if the piping is compromised in one spot it is also compromised in other spots and may not be showing external signs yet. It is the same age. I have a belief that it is not my decision to make. However I must give honest solutions.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

Redwood said:


> If they have roots in the line it is compromised no doubt about it...
> Somewhere there is a repair that can be made...
> Does it have to be made today? :whistling2:
> 
> ...


Somehow, Red, you said what I had hoped to say during my disjointed sermonette. :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRat said:


> Somehow, Red, you said what I had hoped to say during my disjointed sermonette. :laughing:


Well I knew we agreed... :laughing:


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

First of all I doubt anybody on this forum is in business to "rip off a customer" Every job is unique and you have to make a judgement call every time. Eventhough I don't have a camera (old school here) it would make for removing all doube in the customers eye. Bottom line in my book is try to give each customer the best eduation possible regarding their root problem abd then give them the options with rough quotes and let them decide based on these facts not emotion


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Times have changed! You no longer need to snake a line over and over till the day comes that the snake guy says "I can't clear it this time" By that time it has a major bellie and trenchless methods might not be possible to be used and excavation (money) is the only way to fix it. And I am speaking of old sewer lines over 50 years. Give the customer all the repair options and pricing, an honest opinion and let them make the decision. I hate the used car salesman sewer guys that pray on the homeowners stress and sell them a sewer right then and there. Cheaper to stay at a hotel for a week and shop around for other bids then shell out 20k in panic mode. I on the other hand no longer believe that a side sewer that is seperated at every joint thats still flows is a good line. Ground water pollution by our sewer systems is a major problem that is hidden below the ground, out of site out of mind.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

damnplumber said:


> *I doubt anybody on this forum is in business to "rip off a customer"*


http://www.plumbingzone.com/f4/dishonest-13574/

Unfortunately, you stand corrected. :whistling2:

Do some digging on sales tactics, etc. More than one member has been scorned off the board for their questionable integrity.


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