# Felony Plumbing?



## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Has anyone read this months PHC News? Is anybody as  off as I am?

http://www.phcnews.com/columns.php

PHC News decided to grace its cover this month with a story by Ellen Rohr about a felon in Florida who started his own plumbing company. WTF? It seems his greatest contribution to the world of plumbing is the fact that he is an ex-con with less than 2 years of business under his belt. In fact, they hardly even mention a word about his company. Is this the best company they can find to spotlight on their cover? Jeesh! I guess I'm not that special 'cause I haven't done enough time............ Wait a minute, I take that back, I have done more time in business than this guy did in prison. 

I am all for second chances and I assume this guy has paid his debt to society and I truly hope he has turned his life around but I am insulted by the article. 

The whole article can be summed up as boy has hard life, boy becomes criminal, boy goes to prison and learns plumbing, boy gets out of prison and doesn't like the pay as a plumber so boy decides to become a drug dealer, boy gets busted, boy gets lucky when charges get dropped, boy decides to open plumbing company, boy is in business for less than 2 years and is graced by cover PHC News. 

How much lower can we sink in the plumbing industry? What message does this send to HO's? I am told the number one trade being taught in prison today is plumbing! 

Here is a quote from the article:


> "_I started to find some freinds, inmates who inspired me to dream of a better life. That little bit of hope started growing. I met Jeremy and Terry and Joe the Plumber (no, not that Joe.) They liked to talk about their business ideas. Terry had a business prior to getting arrested. He recommended_....."


:blink: I am feeling all warm and fuzzy.

Come on PHC News! Is this a positive message for our industry? I would much rather read about a Florida company like Protech, or any other company on this forum, than Florida Felon Plumbing.

[end rant]


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

Pipedoc said:


> Has anyone read this months PHC News? Is anybody as  off as I am?
> 
> http://www.phcnews.com/columns.php
> 
> ...


get over it! it is what it is!


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Why do you think I dont hafta advertise so damn heavy for......its because half of the plumbers around here a flippin dopers or drunks or eyeball their teenage daughter the entire job or make inappropriate commnets to people about one thing or another......I hear it all the time.."the guy looked like a criminal". people are busy and they realize they must find people they trust to work in their home around their wife and children.....after they meet and talk to me their search is over and i become their plumber for life.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> get over it! it is what it is!


You wouldn't happen to be be an ex-con yourself, would ya? Hmmmmm.:whistling2:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ah pipedoc its just a stupid magazine...but it does explain why the laws in FL are against the contractor.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Anything more than class c conviction in Texas no plumbing.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Ya, I know but I am still insulted by it. Not because he has been given a second chance on life - I think everyone deserves a chance to change, it is because there are thousands of plumbing companies who are more deserving of being spotlighted than his. It would have made an interesting inside story although I would reserve my final opinion until I heard more about his company though.

I don't know, the whole thing just bothers me. "From the big house to the supply house." WTF?

Hey TM, maybe we should start a campaign for the plumbing industry to change our war cry from "Protecting the Health of the Nation" to "Helping Ex-cons Walk the Path of the Straight and Narrow Since 2007"


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Pipedoc said:


> Ya, I know but I am still insulted by it. Not because he has been given a second chance on life - I think everyone deserves a chance to change, it is because there are thousands of plumbing companies who are more deserving of being spotlighted than his. It would have made an interesting inside story although I would reserve my final opinion until I heard more about his company though.
> 
> I don't know, the whole thing just bothers me. "From the big house to the supply house." WTF?
> 
> Hey TM, maybe we should start a campaign for the plumbing industry to change our war cry from "Protecting the Health of the Nation" to "Helping Ex-cons Walk the Path of the Straight and Narrow Since 2007"


 Yeah i dont think you should get a pat on the back for F'ing up and then straighting up and doing the right thing.......it should be noted but not drooled over.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

you girls done! the h.o has the say on who he hires. contractors in Ca. go through a criminal background check. I'm doing pretty well pipedoc.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> you girls done! the h.o has the say on who he hires. contractors in Ca. go through a criminal background check. I'm doing pretty well pipedoc.


 Yeah we are girls but in cali everything causes cancer.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber;74897 "you girls done!" said:


> This has been my week for being called names.. So far it is *******. Retard, Moron, Girley type guy..and the day's not over..:yes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

slickrick said:


> bigdaddyplumber;74897 "you girls done!" said:
> 
> 
> > This has been my week for being called names.. So far it is *******. Retard, Moron, Girley type guy..and the day's not over..:yes:
> ...


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> you girls done! the h.o has the say on who he hires. contractors in Ca. go through a criminal background check. I'm doing pretty well pipedoc.


 Ooops. I didn't know ex-cons were so easily offended. Sorry.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Yeah we are girls but in cali everything causes cancer.


Keeps me busy. We build plenty of hospitals. great education, good wages the best benefit and a good retirement! U.A baby. only god judges last time i checked! and i do pretty well with my c36 thank you.:jester:


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

Pipedoc said:


> Ooops. I didn't know ex-cons were so easily offended. Sorry.


:thumbup: sensitive plumbers damn!


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Yeah we are girls but in cali everything causes cancer.


 And they've managed to keep Charles Manson alive all these years....:blink:


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Not sensitive. Just not low standards or morals.


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

I agree with the Master, my competition is either very expensive or criminals ,pot smokers or drunks. I just have to be fair, do go work, return phone calls 
and the work keeps coming in


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

ya my standards are the highest and the same with my morals thx. as for competition i have none. i'm my best critic too! seems like life is hard for you. keep trying it does get better. i don't know what pot smokers and drunks and criminals has to do with it though.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

One thing you need to understand, that magazine isn't a real magazine. It is solely a vehicle for advertisers. If you spend enough, you can get a column, too. She wrote about that guy because he is a client. If you were a client with an interesting backstory, you might get an article about yourself.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

jjbex said:


> One thing you need to understand, that magazine isn't a real magazine. It is solely a vehicle for advertisers. If you spend enough, you can get a column, too. She wrote about that guy because he is a client. If you were a client with an interesting backstory, you might get an article about yourself.


To me, the moral of this story is "consider the source."


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> ........... i don't know what pot smokers and drunks and criminals has to do with it though.


 Try running a service business and get back to me on that. 

Competing against low ball prices from the handy clowns and un-licensed hacks as well and a segment of the population who already has a poor opinion and a general mistrust of service providers.

It is easy to outshine these clowns but first you have to close the sale.

I just don't see how PHC News thinks that this a good story that their readers would be interested in. How does this lift the trade to a higher level? I don't think the AMA or any bar association would being singing praises about this guy if he was a doctor or lawyer.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I have been reading this magazine for some time now. 

I can't say that I remember this women ever having a cover article. I may be wrong, it just does not ring a bell. So why now, with that article? Why not on her regular page 20?

I guess some liberal a**hole editor thought it would put a warm and fuzzy feeling in all of our hearts. I personally could give a f--k less about that scumbag and his so called sucess story. I read trade magazines to stay abreast of our industry, not to read about shi- like that. 

Hey, Ms. Rohr, and the editor, screw you.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm with Pipedoc on this one. Two things come to mind:

1. PHC and a lot of other publications like it are all self-serving advertising publications. When we started in business, we were optimistic and thought we knew the rules. :no: It didn't take long to become a cynic. The BBB, Chamber of Commerce, local newspapers, and even trade publications are a 'pay to play' scam IMO. What is most disturbing about the article is that HO's don't know they are hiring an ex convict. If he does new construction and does not come in contact with HO's, maybe that's okay. But you need to ask yourself, would you want this guy alone behind closed doors with your wife and/or children? I think not.

2. Feature article - here's an idea for PHC that everyone can appreciate. How about an article on the plumber with a dream to open his own company? He wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth, but he believes he can offer better plumbing service then what's currently available. So, to pursue his dream, he takes out a second mortgage on his home, sells his personal vehicle to purchase a work truck fully stocked with everything he can think of to do his job. He works 60 hours a week building his business and most of that is not plumbing because the calls don't just roll in because he decided to open a business. After his first year, he discovers he has gained a nice customer base, but has barely made plumbing wages. Factor in the 60 hours per week, and he may have made a little above minimum wage. He doesn't look at these numbers because he realizes it's sweat equity and you cannot put a price tag on reputation. He continues to plug along because he knows hard work and dedication will eventually pay off. His family supports him because they believe in him! He builds his company and starts to feel successful only to have the recession knock him back. He doesn't resort to stealing or drugs because life got a little hard. NO! He works harder because he believes in the American dream. 

Many of us face setbacks and I know of absolutely NO ONE who had a charmed, walk in the park childhood. Yet, we all keep plugging along without resorting to illegal activities.

We need to start recognizing everyday heroes who do the right thing! Not people who eff'd up and want pats on the back for doing what we have done our entire lives.

Okay, off my soapbox.:jester:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

PC, you should write a book.....I'm just sayin'


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

Pipedoc said:


> Try running a service business and get back to me on that.
> 
> Competing against low ball prices from the handy clowns and un-licensed hacks as well and a segment of the population who already has a poor opinion and a general mistrust of service providers.
> 
> ...


:whistling2:
sorry i'm a U.A plumber and very happy on my own time i'm a plumbing contractor, and that doesn't consist of servicing peoples egos. my buissness is word of mouth and here in cali i'm doing like a plumbing king!!! i do have a prescription for 215 marijuana and i do have a beer once in a while so if you want to call that criminal so be it professor or what ever you are, but i won't judge you. you don't feed my family! get over it! :whistling2:


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> I'm with Pipedoc on this one. Two things come to mind:
> 
> 1. PHC and a lot of other publications like it are all self-serving advertising publications. When we started in business, we were optimistic and thought we knew the rules. :no: It didn't take long to become a cynic. The BBB, Chamber of Commerce, local newspapers, and even trade publications are a 'pay to play' scam IMO. What is most disturbing about the article is that HO's don't know they are hiring an ex convict. If he does new construction and does not come in contact with HO's, maybe that's okay. But you need to ask yourself, would you want this guy alone behind closed doors with your wife and/or children? I think not.
> 
> ...


:blink::whistling2::no:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> :whistling2:
> sorry i'm a U.A plumber and very happy on my own time i'm a plumbing contractor, and that doesn't consist of servicing peoples egos. my buissness is word of mouth and *here in cali i'm doing like a plumbing king!!!* i do have a prescription for 215 marijuana and i do have a beer once in a while so if you want to call that criminal so be it professor or what ever you are, but i won't judge you. you don't feed my family! get over it! :whistling2:


Your opinion and defense of publishing felony success stories brings to mind two other things:

1. Me think ye protesteth too much (perhaps too close to home?)

and

2. *Pride cometh before the fall* :yes:


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

We are all entitled to our opinion. the article does nothing for me. do i have a story sure we all do. but my plumbing business has nothing to do with your success, we walk alone. i say more power to him and them! because of some i will have more work. not because of the article or you internet service plumbing nazi's! i'd love to see you all making it here! what a joke! you can't even deal with a mom and pop business with out sniveling. done with this subject! and yes i'm a proud Plumber thank you. key word is plumber and that's been going for a lot longer that this forum.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> We are all entitled to our opinion. the article does nothing for me. do i have a story sure we all do. but my plumbing business has nothing to do with your success, we walk alone. i say more power to him and them! because of some i will have more work. not because of the article or you internet service plumbing nazi's! i'd love to see you all making it here! what a joke! you can't even deal with a mom and pop business with out sniveling. done with this subject! and yes i'm a proud Plumber thank you. key word is plumber and that's been going for a lot longer that this forum.


*******UPDATE*************, Retard, Moron, Girley Type Plumbing Nazi....


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

lol


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> We are all entitled to our opinion. the article does nothing for me. do i have a story sure we all do. but my plumbing business has nothing to do with your success, we walk alone. i say more power to him and them! because of some i will have more work. not because of the article or you internet service plumbing nazi's! i'd love to see you all making it here! what a joke! you can't even deal with a mom and pop business with out sniveling. done with this subject! and yes i'm a proud Plumber thank you. key word is plumber and that's been going for a lot longer that this forum.


Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some of us are just better at voicing it with a level of respect when dealing with other professionals. Never heard the term "internet service plumbing Nazi," but it doesn't sound complimentary. Sounds like it is you who has a problem and cannot make it in a Professional Plumbing Forum.

No one said that they cannot deal with their businesses - many of us do day in and day out. To ignore the fact that it can be hard and at times discouraging is doing an injustice. We all share our ups and downs so that it may benefit someone else. What a shame you can not see it for what it is.

BTW - glad to hear you are DONE WITH THIS SUBJECT, so we won't have to see another one of your posts in this thread. :yes:


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

ya i'm scratching my nuts thinking about this one!!!! ahhh f it. i have plenty of work. and i don't need your approval, sorry you don't like my opinion i didn't ask for yours. i not gonna sit here and bash an article because it's not me or one of mine. sorry the criminal had more money to dish out right? isn't that what happened he through money at the opportunity? smart business man then! more power to him! so now i'm the *******. i'll be your whipping boy baby!!!!


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Lets show respect on the forum 

Thanks


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> ya i'm scratching my nuts thinking about this one!!!! ahhh f it. i have plenty of work. and i don't need your approval, sorry you don't like my opinion i didn't ask for yours. i not gonna sit here and bash an article because it's not me or one of mine. sorry the criminal had more money to dish out right? isn't that what happened he through money at the opportunity? smart business man then! more power to him! so now i'm the *******. i'll be your whipping boy baby!!!!


I thought you said you were done??????


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> ya i'm scratching my nuts thinking about this one!!!! ahhh f it. i have plenty of work. and i don't need your approval, sorry you don't like my opinion i didn't ask for yours. i not gonna sit here and bash an article because it's not me or one of mine. sorry the criminal had more money to dish out right? isn't that what happened he through money at the opportunity? smart business man then! more power to him! so now i'm the *******. i'll be your whipping boy baby!!!!


Slow down BigDaddy . . . if you are scratching, I think they make a powder or cream for that. You really ought to get it checked out. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

I'm glad you have plenty of work - however, I would hope you could be a bit more open minded as to what your brother plumbers around the nation face. It is not the same everywhere - obstacles vary from place to place.

I didn't dislike your opinion, I had a different opinion.

I don't care about the criminal becoming a 'smart businessman.' Let's see where he is in 10 years. I took exception to a publication spot lighting a particular individual. We have many success stories and those I would find more worthy of all the attention.

You're not an a$$hole, I NEVER said that. Don't need a whipping boy either, I just don't back down. It wasn't personal, relax, it's Sunday and tomorrow is a work day! :yes:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> it's Sunday and tomorrow is a work day! :yes:



Unless your oncall :laughing: then today is a workday also.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Unless your oncall :laughing: then today is a workday also.


Correction - potential work day. :laughing:


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

sorry i'm over it! thread is closed. just a bit bored i guess. i'm just a california liberal....no i don't think so! but it's kept me busy. i said scratching it's not a rash! lol


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Unless your oncall :laughing: then today is a workday also.


Rob's on call. He's on his third one today. 1st call replace 2 Pro45B and shut-offs, 2nd call clear main line, 3rd call - crazy (literally) customer believes her neighbor has a problem. The best I can make of it, her toilet is dirty and unsanitary, but she will pay the bill if her neighbor can't.

Also booked another call for tomorrow. Technically I answered all four calls , so I am working too! But hey, I can chat with you fine folks and work at the same time. :yes:


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

slickrick said:


> *******UPDATE*************, Retard, Moron, Girley Type Plumbing Nazi....


 You made me laugh outloud Rick. I love yours and Airgaps sense of humor. You two always make me laugh. .........I'm just sayin' (please don't sue me for trademark infringement:laughing


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Lets show respect on the forum
> 
> Thanks


You're welcome.

http://s0.ilike.com/play#Aretha+Fra...3.0.1.81,std_46a423262eecabca663e90ccbdf4947e


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

Did ya ever stop to think thaat article could have a negative effect on this guys biz?


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

para1 said:


> Did ya ever stop to think thaat article could have a negative effect on this guys biz?


I didn't think of it from that perspective until you mentioned it. Since PHC is only delivered to those in the industry, I cannot see how it will have a negative impact. I'd bet money all his competitors already know his background. Supply houses and plumbers talk.

We have a plumbing company here where the owner is a convicted rapist. His victim was like 80 years old. All the other cos. in town know his history, but he's still in business. I can only surmise it is because the HO's don't know it. 

His picture is still on the official SOR (Sex offender registry) list.

I believe in 2nd chances and I'm glad this guy (PHC) has turned it around. He is now a tax paying citizen and he's employing others. :thumbsup: Good for him!

If PHC wants to highlight plumbing success stories, I'm sure they could find any number of companies on PZ who have also beat the odds. Being on the front cover of a national trade publication could definitely help a small business. If you were on the cover, you most likely could get your local media to do a spot on a 'local celebrity.' You could advertise 'local plumbing expert as featured in national trade publication PHC News.' Free media attention can do wonders, it's can be a gold mine!


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

PC, Speaking of media attention. I had a job from hell at our county jail. A 60' 4" grease line through the jail went bad. It was 3 1/2 feet deep and we had to hand dig all of it while the jail and kitchen were still in operation. It cost the county $28.000. The front page of the paper read "Plumber rips off County" It turned out to be better advertising than I could have paid for. Everytime someone had a tough one they called us and said they new we could handle it. funny how that works.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

slickrick said:


> PC, Speaking of media attention. I had a job from hell at our county jail. A 60' 4" grease line through the jail went bad. It was 3 1/2 feet deep and we had to hand dig all of it while the jail and kitchen were still in operation. It cost the county $28.000. The front page of the paper read "Plumber rips off County" It turned out to be better advertising than I could have paid for. Everytime someone had a tough one they called us and said they new we could handle it. funny how that works.


That's priceless! :thumbup: Though I would be pretty miffed to make the headlines in that way.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Convicted felons cannot be plumbers in IL. 

There are background checks done on all applicants.

They check for child support in arrears and criminal record.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

BTW, 
slickrick is a goober:whistling2::laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Sticks and Stones....


***IMPORTANT UPDATE***** *******, Retard, Moron, Girley Type Plumbing Nazi, Goober lipped, nut rodded, Cheerleading bubba.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

How about nut rod? Anyone call you that yet?

No?

Let me be the first Rick.

Your a nut rod!


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## coolwater (Oct 17, 2009)

and all this time I thought being a felon was a pre-requisite for plumbing.. damn i gotta get outta GA


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Good Evening All.

Almost none of you know me here because I rarely engage in conversation here. I made an occasional post on contractortalk before this came out when I first went into business a few years ago, mostly bashing the unlicensed people. I found better ways to focus my energy (on business) and popped in on here several months ago just to read posts relating to how people are doing abroad as a sign of the times. There is a lot more activity on here now as compared to then, most of it seems fairly positive. Anyway, I logged in tonight and noticed this story off the top about this guy and made my way through the posts and couldnt believe the attention I got. After reading all of the comments I couldn't help but make a reply, for better or worse. Here goes:

I agree with the OP that there are many companies out there that are far more succesful and newsworthy than I. The author explained her belief in Peace through Prosperity, and asked if I'd be willing to do the story. After some thought I said sure, knowing full well that competitors, clients, and the whole world would see it. After all, the majority of my client base came from people who know my whole story, who found my services worthy of telling their friends, family, and neighbors about. Judges, lawyers, CPA's, other business owners, etc. who found my services better than they had received from other established companies. So that also nulls competitors who wish ill by proxy. 
I take full responsibility for my actions and have never tried to justify or minimize the fact that that they were wrong. 
I was not content to make helpers wages my whole life because I was honest with employers and they thought I should be paid less because of it. I would be serving our great country right now but that door was also closed. Screwing up again was/is not an option. So I did something about it. So far it is working.
I too believe in the American Dream and put in 80+ hours a week for less than helper's wages sometimes. I face the same challenges most or all of you do as well. I started with nothing but the clothes on my back (literally) and have never had money to throw at anything. 
Other than that, thanks to those who acknowledge the fact that we all have the right to do right. To those who are offended I wish you well also. It is your right to feel as you do as well. I feel strongly against criminals also. Maybe I'm a hypocrite but I can relate to your opinions on an absurdly profound level, knowing that 85+% people who are caught never change, and that so many others who deserve to don't even get caught. 
To the inevitable question of how I got my license: FL does not allow cnvicted felons to have a license without having their Civil Rights restored, and will not if there were drug, violent, or sex convictions.That took a signature from the Governor's office and a trip in person to go before the Licensing Committee. 
I am wide open to bashing, questions, or comments.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Well, that certainly took a lot of courage to come forward. Since you just joined in September, why weren't you more forthcoming about your background? Surely you knew you would be featured on the front cover, is that why you finally joined PZ?

I am glad you turned your life around, truly I am. You quoted the re-offend rate, so it shouldn't be surprising that people will take a 'wait and see' approach with you.

You cannot change your past, however, you can change your future. This country is made up of lots of good forgiving people, therefore, you will get your second chance. What you do with it is completely up to you.

I wish you well!


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

thank god for that. well said.


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

*yesterday's history, tomorrow's a mystery.........*


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks for posting. I agree with Plumbcrazy and appreciate your statements.

I still feel the same way I do in my original post. What angered me was a reflection of the message (or lack of message) PHC was putting forth. The whole point of the article was about an ex-convict who went into the plumbing business. I have never read an article in any of the trade mags about a business that didn't extoll the postives about that business and the way it operates or services it provides until now. I still know absolutely nothing about your business and how it operates. 

I said earlier, and I still beleive, that everyone deserves a second chance to turn their life around and based on the information given to me it appears you are doing so. I wish you no ill will. Good luck with your life and I hope you continue to live in a positive and honest way.

You were open and honest and I will give you the same courtesy. I still am undecided about how I feel about former convicts in the plumbing service business but that is for me to worry about - not you. You'll forgive me if I wait awhile before I form an opinion but I do look forward to hearing more from you on the forum. I hope you become a productive member of this community as well.

I was the second person to welcome you to the forum when you gave an intro and as far as I am concerned as long as you are a licensed plumber and an honest businessman my welcome still stands. 

Good luck.


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