# Tapping a drain line



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

In my area its quite a common practice by softener companies to tap a drain line and thread in an adapter to drain their system. This is of course wrong, as it is a cross-connection. 

Yesterday I was under a house and noticed the R.O. system drain was tapped directly into the 2" Kitchen sink drain. Since the drain and the feed line both went up to the faucet, I believe that the faucet is also an airgap. This install was not done by a softener company, but a local licensed plumber. 

This leads me to ask, and I doubt many would admit, but what the heck. Do any of you ever tap a drain line, under any circumstances? If so, what protections do you put in place to avoid a potential problem.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Indie said:


> In my area its quite a common practice by softener companies to tap a drain line and thread in an adapter to drain their system. This is of course wrong, as it is a cross-connection.
> 
> Yesterday I was under a house and noticed the R.O. system drain was tapped directly into the 2" Kitchen sink drain. Since the drain and the feed line both went up to the faucet, I believe that the faucet is also an airgap. This install was not done by a softener company, but a local licensed plumber.
> 
> This leads me to ask, and I doubt many would admit, but what the heck. Do any of you ever tap a drain line, under any circumstances?  If so, what protections do you put in place to avoid a potential problem.



A high loop


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Indie said:


> In my area its quite a common practice by softener companies to tap a drain line and thread in an adapter to drain their system. This is of course wrong, as it is a cross-connection. <snip>
> 
> Here we have house traps ... so we have fresh airs. Many a 4" fresh air pipe was tapped for 1-1/2 a P- trap and a riser pipe was installed.
> I would install a 1-1/2 Y on the riser then a short piece and a cap. The cap would be drilled and the plastic softner drain tube was affixed with wire ties so as it would not blow out or drop in past the Y branch the drain water did not come back out the Y branch and it afforded an air gap, in case of a blockage the sewer would run out the Y prior to getting to the drain hose. Code ... some inspectors [those that were plumbers] OK'ed it. Some the [book learned] type had a no-drill the fresh air mentality. You had to know who you were dealing with.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

For softener drains I will discharge to a trap seal primer (or laundry tray), if possible as we generally have 11/2 stubbed above the floor for this purpose. Otherwise I will tap an 11/2 trap off a drain, put a 3x11/2 coupling on, stub a foot of 3", drill a hole half way down the 3" to lower the FLR and attach the softener drain to the top left for the 3". 

I'll vent the trap conventionally where possible, or use an AAV where it isn't. I've been a LOT more diligent with this type of thing over the last couple years now that I better understand cross connections and the potential dangers involved.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> For softener drains I will discharge to a trap seal primer (or laundry tray), if possible as we generally have 11/2 stubbed above the floor for this purpose. Otherwise I will tap an 11/2 trap off a drain, put a 3x11/2 coupling on, stub a foot of 3", drill a hole half way down the 3" to lower the FLR and attach the softener drain to the top left for the 3".
> 
> I'll vent the trap conventionally where possible, or use an AAV where it isn't. I've been a LOT more diligent with this type of thing over the last couple years now that I better understand cross connections and the potential dangers involved.


That is still a cross connection as there is no air gap.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> That is still a cross connection as there is no air gap.


You're right. There is no air gap. There is an air break though. 

Read the part about drilling the hole to put the FLR below the top of the 3" stub. 

No cross connection. 



Auto correct mangled my post a bit but you get the point.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> You're right. There is no air gap. There is an air break though.
> 
> Read the part about drilling the hole to put the FLR below the top of the 3" stub.
> 
> No cross connection.


Granted I read through it fast but FLR usually means floor to me. What is a FLR?


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> Granted I read through it fast but FLR usually means floor to me. What is a FLR?


Flood Level Rim.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> Flood Level Rim.


Well, that makes sense. I would have just stopped at the coupling but i bet yours never gets bumped away from the drain.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Under the sink for the RO we do a high loop and attach it to the underneath of the counter. 

For softners (they are outside here) we discharge em into a injection well or into a vacant lot next-door (if there is one)

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> Under the sink for the RO we do a high loop and attach it to the underneath of the counter.
> 
> For softners (they are outside here) we discharge em into a injection well or into a vacant lot next-door (if there is one)
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


What is an Injection well?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

deerslayer said:


> What is an Injection well?


In the case of water treatment equipment, it is a piece of usually 3/4 pipe jetted down into the ground and into the water table (12-15 ft is what we jet down to here) and it is used for the disposal of regeneration waste. we put a gravel pack at the bottom of the injection well to allow the water to slowly seep outward and into the water table.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> In the case of water treatment equipment, it is a piece of usually 3/4 pipe jetted down into the ground and into the water table (12-15 ft is what we jet down to here) and it is used for the disposal of regeneration waste. we put a gravel pack at the bottom of the injection well to allow the water to slowly seep outward and into the water table.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. One little thing does wrongs and it ks all contaminated. I am not getting into it with anybody that is allowed to do it and I am not mad, just stunned.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

It is better then just discharging it into the yard, and there's no way to tap into a sewer line when the softener is on the outside of the house.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Here we are allowed to do that. Trust me I don't like doing it either but it's better then just letting the treatment unit just discharge into the yard, most of the time we are able to discharge into a vacant lot though.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> It is better then just discharging it into the yard, and there's no way to tap into a sewer line when the softener is on the outside of the house.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


How is reintroducing the contaminants directly back into the water table better than discharging it into the yard where the contaminants can be filtered out as the discharge slowly percs its way back into the water table?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

A shallow ditch line of gravel around some perforated pipe similar to a septic field should be adequate if aesthetics was an issue.

What will Florida have the new owners of that vacant lot do when they decide to build on it?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> How is reintroducing the contaminants directly back into the water table better than discharging it into the yard where the contaminants can be filtered out as the discharge slowly percs its way back into the water table?


Discharging it into the yard can 

#1 kill vegitation 
#2 creates a soggy wet area
#3 and in a lot of track home developments, the houses are so close together that the neighbors end up with a soggy part in their yard due to the discharge.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> A shallow ditch line of gravel around some perforated pipe similar to a septic field should be adequate if aesthetics was an issue.
> 
> What will Florida have the new owners of that vacant lot do when they decide to build on it?


I like that idea but in most cases where people have manicured lawns they don't want no digging done, but it is a good idea. 

The owners of the treatment system will have to move the discharge line to another location. But there won't be much building being done here in the imediate future so that's really not an issue, but still could be in the future.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Very popular for the culagan man to run the line from out side over the roof and down the vent. They even put a 6" piece of copper at the end to weigh it down. It was definitely a WTF moment when I pulled that up with a toilet augger.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> Very popular for the culagan man to run the line from out side over the roof and down the vent. They even put a 6" piece of copper at the end to weigh it down. It was definitely a WTF moment when I pulled that up with a toilet augger.


Now that's just messed up right there,

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> Discharging it into the yard can
> 
> #1 kill vegitation
> #2 creates a soggy wet area
> ...


So aesthetics trump willful contamination of the water table by deliberately reintroducing contaminants directly back into the water supply?

What about piping the discharge into a rainleader/downspout drain? Or cutting a fitting into the sanitary sewer and plumbing in an indirect drain?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> So aesthetics trump willful contamination of the water table by deliberately reintroducing contaminants directly back into the water supply?
> 
> What about piping the discharge into a rainleader/downspout drain? Or cutting a fitting into the sanitary sewer and plumbing in an indirect drain?


We are only talking about 12-15 ft which is just surface water, all of the potable water wells are Atleast 90-110 ft deep and they go through a limestone confining layer. 

We have tapped into downspout drains before for treatment equipment before but most downspouts just empty out to the ground here. 

Most water services/water treatment equipment areas are on the opposite side of the house from the side sewer. So it would be impractical to tie into the sanitary sewer, but still a good idea you have.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I should also add I am talking about average lots and houses. If the house has double lots or acreage then we normally discharge into a remote piece of the property, and discharge above ground.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> We are only talking about 12-15 ft which is just surface water, all of the potable water wells are At least 90-110 ft deep and they go through a limestone confining layer.


I got you.

That sounds much better, thanks for clearing that up.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> We are only talking about 12-15 ft which is just surface water, all of the potable water wells are Atleast 90-110 ft deep and they go through a limestone confining layer.
> 
> We have tapped into downspout drains before for treatment equipment before but most downspouts just empty out to the ground here.
> 
> ...


 
A lot of shallow wells in sarasota are less than 10 feet deep especially off palmer road/honore. I've pulled many 7 foot deep.There are a ton of artesian wells off beeridge road west of 75.

You are correct there really is no good way to dispose of the softened water and we must do the best we can. People have downspouts but they are not run anywhere.

We typically run them to the garage and into the wm standpipe


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> A lot of shallow wells in sarasota are less than 10 feet deep especially off palmer road/honore. I've pulled many 7 foot deep.There are a ton of artesian wells off beeridge road west of 75.
> 
> You are correct there really is no good way to dispose of the softened water and we must do the best we can. People have downspouts but they are not run anywhere.
> 
> We typically run them to the garage and into the wm standpipe


There's a lot of artiesen wells in the northport/port Charlotte area also. 

Whenever we jet down a injection well we also locate it far away from the potable water well, I would discourage the use of an injection well if the well supplying the house is only 7 ft deep. We don't work in the sarasota area so I don't really see wells that shallow. Most of the wells where we work are around 90-110.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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