# first solo rough in



## plumb.it.up (Jan 19, 2012)

Hey pz,
Been plumbing for a year and a half at a soley service based company. Mostly repairs and fixture upgrades, general service. Being that we are a service related company our pricing is higher for larger jobs than most companies. Finally I am a technician not a helper and can do my own jobs, dependant on the calls. This is my first bathroom rough in. W/ c, basin, and shower. Simple, id love to see some of your pre backfill and post pics. I love plumbing and will be in the trade for life, body condition pending, so I hope to share mre interesting pics in the future, for now its all constructive crtisism.
Thankyou, happy plumbing.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

What the hell is this tech shiit ..

Is that a term for some one that is neither an apprentice or a plumber ?


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

how does one get 3034 to ram into an abs fitting? Aside from materials, it looks primarily legal. Then again I'm looking through a whole bunch of southern comfort


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## plumb.it.up (Jan 19, 2012)

That's what they call anybody who is on their own truck, I am an apprentice, just not a journeyman.... yet and since it is my first company im used to using that term(technician)


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## plumb.it.up (Jan 19, 2012)

Im not farmilliar with the term 3034 if your refering to the 4" pvc then there is a transition coupling. Im in ontario btw,


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

that dirty arm here in texas would fail over five feet needs a revent


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

I am a little confused on how you tied
Into that main as well, with SDR into ABS and and no furncos. The install looks to code to me. I WISH I was looking at it through southern comfort glasses!


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

is that a backwards wye to vent toilet


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

I don't see a c/o on the vent serving the W/C. We need one in Alberta.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

revenge said:


> is that a backwards wye to vent toilet


That's what I thought, but I think it's a wye right after a 22 1/2 bend


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## xyleman (Feb 2, 2011)

looks like it is a dry vent with tee on its side for wc vent,why not wet vent with lav? Also why is there a mix of sdr and abs?


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

ya but the wye was put in back words right what to stop the shiot from going that way when toilet is flushed


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Why are you stacking the waters on the lav. one it looks stupid and two its gonna screw ya when you have to set your p.o. and are hitting the supply line with the trip rod.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

the tee on its side is the shower but the angle thats there it really appears to be a wye


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## xyleman (Feb 2, 2011)

looks like 2"wet vent from lav to 2" wye at shower he has run a dry flat vent for wc which really looks like street 3x1.5" into 3"22.5


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

k i see it now my bad partner


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

All fails in st louis Mo. Sch 40 solid core pvc underground only.


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## aundraew (Jan 11, 2012)

You wet vented the shower with the lav but with mo vent.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

So the pecking order from the bottom is-apprentice, technition, journeymen, master plumber? Is this right? 

Hot and cold stacked on top of each other? Never seen that...won't get an escutcheon plate and them...to close together.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

It wouldn't pass here.


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

The flat dry vent on the water closet wouldn't pass here. I know that some codes do allow that, though. The green sewer pipe under slab wouldn't pass here. The PVC to ABS transition with a glue joint probably wouldn't pass here. The water lines look to be too close together and too close to the drain line to get escutchions on at trim time. 

The closet riser looks to be ABS in the before concrete picture, but PVC in the after concrete picture?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumb.it.up said:


> That's what they call anybody who is on their own truck, I am an apprentice, just not a journeyman.... yet and since it is my first company im used to using that term(technician)





plumb.it.up said:


> ....Im in ontario btw,


I am not familiar with Ontario licensing law but I have never heard of "technician" being part of the progression in the plumbing trade. That is a fluff word for people that do not understand the importance of being a licensed Plumbing Professional. 

I believe your company uses that term to justify sending an unlicensed person in the field to do work they do not possess credentials to perform legally. This lets the company get the benefit of extra billable hours without the investment of time and/or money in a real plumber.

You either need to work under the direct supervision of a plumber with the appropriate seals or I need to learn more about licensing laws in Ontario. Based on the pics, I am thinking maybe the first of the two options would be best.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

From a technical standpoint, our inspectors would want to know what you are hiding on the green pipe under the gravel.

Why is it covered? 

Why did you go so far down stream to tie in the WC?

Why is there a extended flat/dry vent on the WC?

Why no C.O. On the WC dry vent?

Why didn't you vent the lav at the lav?

Why are the waters stacked on the right rather than H left and C right?

Please understand that this is all "constructive" criticism. Your work is neat and clean so I can understand why you would be proud enough to post pics. I just don't think you are ready to be plumbing unsupervised.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Is it any wonder why more people don't post pictures of their work on here? :laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumb.it.up said:


> ....for now its all constructive crtisism.....





Indie said:


> Is it any wonder why more people don't post pictures of their work on here? :laughing:


Nobody gets special sympathy if shot serving in a volunteer army. :laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Attached Thumbnails
 





In these two pictures, looks like a dead end on the 4" line. Our code prohibits any dead ends in the sanitary; exceptions being: 1) future fixtures or 2) a c.o. at the top end of a trunk line. Other than that, dead ends aren't allowed.

As already posted, this is constructive criticism. I'm not beating you up, just trying to help.

Oh, and where'd you get that shovel and pick-axe? From the umpaloompa?


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

I just think you were thinking way too hard. It will work. But , work on your layout a little more. Lots of unnecessary fittings and crazy angles.


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## drain surgeon (Jun 17, 2010)

I will never understand why code varies so much from place to place. I can see certian things being different due to differing weather conditions but basic plumbing should be the same code from Miane to Cali and everyplace in between.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Nice concrete finishing, ever think about switching trades? I do like the ABS pipe, its hard to find around here.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

I don't like the two seperate branches for lav and shower, and one for the w.c. You had the space, I would have wet vented the w.c. with the lav and have a cleanout. Then I would have individually vented the shower with a clean out. If you have done enough service plumbing, think about how this job will look in 10 years when you have to come back with a sewer machine. Concrete looks good.


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## cincy plumber (Jun 14, 2009)

plumb.it.up said:


> Im not farmilliar with the term 3034 if your refering to the 4" pvc then there is a transition coupling. Im in ontario btw,


ASTM 3034 sewer pipe,also called SDR 35 but still not the same.


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## hellenicsnowman (Nov 15, 2012)

Should of changed it abit and wet vented the wc and shower


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## hellenicsnowman (Nov 15, 2012)

Look like more than 135 degrees of change on the vent with no clean out


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## Big cheez (Jan 11, 2012)

LMMFAO wtf is that? SDR isn't rated for under the foundation. Your trap arm is higher than the trap weir and wtf is the fitting used to vent the toilet making a 135 degree bend...


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

4" clean out? (see Tommy's comments)

How are you planning on testing your waste lines?


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

DWV is perfectly legal in ontario. As long as 

A: the back vent on ty is above horizontal centreline (maybe, but can a ty really ever be above a horizontal centreline of 3")
B: The vents are tied above FLR (yes) 
C: Distance for lav is no more than 4'11" to vent (judging by studding its roughly 4' 2" away) 
D: WYE 45's used (yes) 


Transition from sdr - abs is legal. Guessing that 45 on the sdr was exposed, pushed forward than popped back for the wye to be cut in. As for the wetvent for the shower, being non sanitary, it only needs to be 1 1/2 since only a lav is draining into it. Bit sloppy but by code its fine.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Good luck I like perseverance! I recomend working with a journeyman or taking some training. We all come from differant areas but your work wont be to code anywhere. Many of your code violations may actualy work just fine but there are so many that it just doesent constitute good work. You will get there but you got to get with someone that knows a bit more.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Note to code - Unlicensed "technician" performing plumbing work without supervision of licensed plumber.

You're not ready to be on your own.

You need to understand the "whys" and not just the "how tos." And I'm not trying to be a dick but you obviously don't.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I think that for a first rough it will work okay. I have seen a lot worse that never failed to operate properly. I'm not going to be a huge critic as some others seem to be with their god like personas ( Hince my absence from this forum) but its obvious you have not been properly trained and that is not your fault. Trial and error is one way to learn and luckily if that is the case it will be at the expense of your business owner who is ultimately to blame here.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I want to know who the master that signed off on it is along with the inspector. Almost nothing there meet anyone's code. Sorry to be so brutal but I have to question the knowledge of your supervisors and wonder who would have allowed you to get that far without teaching you the correct way to install and vent. It's a mess. We learn from our mistakes but the customer shouldn't have to pay the price.


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

its still to ontario code.... might not look pretty but its ok by Ontario code unless someone can tell me different....who knows ontario code.... I know hes not licened needs a journeyman etc. but the work is to code. Not arguing a "technician" just code... 


....code...:laughing:


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## aundraew (Jan 11, 2012)

@red_devil I don't see a vent for the shower/lav and the fitting to vent the toilet looks like its going the wrong way. Not to mention the water pipe for the lav it's not that bad he has some what of an idea what's going on just needs more practice WITH a journey man


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I see a San t on its side too


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Would NEVER pass here . Keep at it kid ,,, ya got s GREAT attitude !!!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Looks fine after the concrete was poured


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

I had a big long paragraph written but my computer f'd up. Yes its vented, wet vent. tied in on right with continous vent tied into back vent on toilet. All above flr.The drain is within 1 m to protecting vent so its ok. As for that TY or w/e it is I cant tell but alot of time they are used here rolled on a 45 on a back vent. I cant tell what he did as long as its above the horizontal centre line. It is allowed to run in that direction. Theres no limit on change of direction as long as it allows for drainage. 

As for wl, I only mentioned dwv not water lines. Looks like garbage stacked poorly supported etc. 

But before this journeyman gives away any tips, he needs to work with one so I'm done arguing this work.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I think that for a first rough it will work okay. I have seen a lot worse that never failed to operate properly. I'm not going to be a huge critic as some others seem to be with their god like personas ( Hince my absence from this forum) but its obvious you have not been properly trained and that is not your fault. Trial and error is one way to learn and luckily if that is the case it will be at the expense of your business owner who is ultimately to blame here.


Hey RS, nice to see a post from you. It has been awhile. How's things in sunny FLA? Got to get down there for the Christmas Break, need a change of gloom :laughing: 

Yea, I'm with you on this one. Hard to believe his master would let that pass but you know how the trade is going and just like crap, it's going downhill :thumbsup:


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I agree with RS, you need more training but since you are taking your own initiative I'm guessing you'll catch on quick enough.


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## toad (Dec 22, 2010)

redbeardplumber said:


> I don't see a c/o on the vent serving the W/C. We need one in Alberta.


if you lift the w.c. off theres your c.o.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

toad said:


> if you lift the w.c. off theres your c.o.


No we need one on the vent. I know it won't get used but....


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

toad said:


> if you lift the w.c. off theres your c.o.


 Ya a plumber or still apprenticate??


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I've got nothing to say about the work that hasn't already been said. There's tons wrong but that's already been covered.

What I like is that you posted this up here. Hopefully, you'll read all the responses and take them to heart. Remember what everybody has said and use that info on your next one. Take more pictures and prepare for the ever-coming onslaught. If this is the way you've been taught at the shop you're working, soon you'll be doing better work than the licensed plumbers if you keep learning here. 

I really think this is about the best thing the 'zone has to offer. Imagine how long somebody could go on doing work like this without learning that itcould be better? The inspectors are passing it, the older plumbers are saying "it's good enough, let's go get lunch" and your paychecks keep getting cashed. This could go on for decades and generations without an outside perspective. That's what the Plumbing Zone offers to many guys. I sit around at the supply house and think about the 40-50 or so plumbers I know in my area and think, if I could choose to work with anybody it would probably be one of a dozen guys on here that I've never met. It's almost like a world-wide all star team and I have to believe that a lot of the guys on here are the ones that, in their community, probably care a bit more and work a bit harder. Just the fact that they've taken the time to get online and talk about plumbing says that. It's a lot more than a job to most here. Thanks to the internet and the Plumbing Zone, a small population in the plumbing community might see the light. 








Paul


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Gotta give Ya credit to post pictures of your work.

No go in Illinois

Shc. 40 within structure.

No-hub adapters and couplings required when transitioning between dissimilar materials.

If the building drain does not continue, a full size clean out would be required.

Vents should be rolled up to a minimum 45 degrees from the horizontal.

Yes with planning you could have ran a maximum of 6 D.F.U.'s into a 2" wet vent, which woul have allowed you to run the shower and lav into the W.C. vent providing it was set up a waste. Dry vents are not required to have a clean out here in Illinois, (except maybe in the COUNTRY of Cook County).


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

@toad, 

Water Closets can not be utilized as a Clean Out under the 2004 Il. plumbing code, that was changed back around 1997 to stop sewer cleaning outfits..

*Section 890.430 Cleanout Equivalent* 

Fixture Trap. A fixture trap, readily removable and without disturbing concealed plumbing or requiring fixture removal, is acceptable as a cleanout equivalent, if there is no more than one (1) 90 degree bend on the line to be rodded. * A water closet is not considered a cleanout equivalent. *

(Source: Amended at 22 Ill. Reg. 21540, effective December 1, 1998)


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