# End to Center Measurement



## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Do you guys include a Female Adapter (lets say 3/4" copper) into a end to center measurement? or would you measure from the end of the pipe to the center of the fitting. (We will call that fitting a 3/4 90)

So what I am asking, for those who did not understand my question....Would you figure an FIP into your overall end to center measurement?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

It matters. But most of the time yes. I'd first measure from end of make up on the fitting I'm screwing into to center of pipe ( where the 90 will go) The put the mip on the pipe subtract the take off for the 90 in my head then measure from end of mip mark and cut !!! You always ask questions the apprentices should know !! I know you know the answers tho!!! Why??? My master is 74 and he would just measur long sweat mip screw it in then cut then cut off extra slap it together !!! Is favorite saying is it's just a drain hurry up !!!


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

TXMECH Plumber, I ask these questions, and yes as you know...I already know the answer.

But....There are apprentices and even some licensed guys who do not know.

They get on here, combing around for these answers, but cannot find them...because nobody wants to sound novice and ask them.

So, I will ask and answer them, if not, I know good guys like yourself will gladly help!


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I don't even know what you're talking about...MIP, 90*?


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## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

Yeah, pictures would really help. Like a lot of other younger plumbers, I don't know all of the formulas and little tricks and shortcuts. I do know how to do an offset though, that was on the test!

Sent from my iPhon


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

He is talkin about getting a measurement from a 90 to a fip and how you take the measurement


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

swedishcharm21 said:


> TXMECH Plumber, I ask these questions, and yes as you know...I already know the answer.
> 
> But....There are apprentices and even some licensed guys who do not know.
> 
> ...


Swedish i just came out of retirement to tell you your annoying.
Read a couple of your other posts, you ask dumb questions and then Say your asking for the novices?
Just be honest and say your asking for yourself, its clear you have no idea what your talking about.
Does sweden even have plumbing?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

NYC Plumber said:


> Does sweden even have plumbing?


Sure They Do! :laughing::laughing::laughing:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/kitchen/10473/

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/bathroom/20723/

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/bathroom/20724/


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

That is COOL!


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

NYC Plumber said:


> Swedish i just came out of retirement to tell you your annoying.
> Read a couple of your other posts, you ask dumb questions and then Say your asking for the novices?
> Just be honest and say your asking for yourself, its clear you have no idea what your talking about.
> Does sweden even have plumbing?


I would now like to envoke the forum to join me in the commencement of a "slow clap"...

It shall reach a crescendo, and we will all laugh hysterically!

Bravo!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

oh goody, another code class....:clap:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I deal with kids all day and consider myself a bit of a master at deciphering confusing and stupid questions but even I am having a hard time figuring out first, what the question is about and second, who gives a crap?

Either post a picture of what in the Christ we are talking about or improve your description. 

Here's a better question for you apprentices. Do I take my coffee black or with cream and sugar and more importantly what happens when you bring me back a LOW FAT blueberry muffin? :laughing: Oh yea, and how many kisses on my ass it too many?


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I deal with kids all day and consider myself a bit of a master at deciphering confusing and stupid questions but even I am having a hard time figuring out first, what the question is about and second, who gives a crap?
> 
> Either post a picture of what in the Christ we are talking about or improve your description.
> 
> Here's a better question for you apprentices. Do I take my coffee black or with cream and sugar and more importantly what happens when you bring me back a LOW FAT blueberry muffin? :laughing: Oh yea, and how many kisses on my ass it too many?


You strike me as a black coffee drinker and no more than 5 kisses in a day. Lol.


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

The OP once said he's forgotten more about plumbing than I'll ever know. Due to the vast amounts of plumbing knowledge he's forgotten I'm going to mail a check for $5 to our local Alzheimers Society in his honor.:thumbsup:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

NYC Plumber said:


> Swedish i just came out of retirement to tell you your annoying.
> Read a couple of your other posts, you ask dumb questions and then Say your asking for the novices?
> Just be honest and say your asking for yourself, its clear you have no idea what your talking about.
> Does sweden even have plumbing?



That made me laugh so hard I probly woke the whole neighborhood up :laughing:


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Sure They Do! :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/kitchen/10473/
> 
> ...


Heh :laughing::laughing: I installed one of those ridiculous things in the float house. They're SO pathetic and badly designed. But with some patience and trial and error (and some silicone on the leaky overflow fittings) it went together and worked ok. NOTE: The fixture outlet pipe is NOT 1-1/4", but neither is it 1-1/2". I was going to just use my own p-trap, so I cut the thing off, assuming it was 1-1/4". Then had to go buy a 1-1/2" x 1-1/4" Bow adapter (ABS to DWV copper compression adapter fitting) and tighten the hell out of it to get it connected. Worked out ok in the end.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

U666A said:


> I would now like to envoke the forum to join me in the commencement of a "slow clap"...
> 
> It shall reach a crescendo, and we will all laugh hysterically!
> 
> Bravo!


I think a golf clap would be more appropriate.... :laughing:


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Swedish why send me a private message that i cant respond to?
That no fun.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Sure They Do! :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/kitchen/10473/
> 
> ...


 My 5 year old foster kid said," I'd never poop in that, it don't look like it works." Mouths of babes.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Is that one of these? Put two of them in, this one happened to be in a new construction house, why not let us just plumb a double lav?


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

plumber666 said:


> The OP once said he's forgotten more about plumbing than I'll ever know. Due to the vast amounts of plumbing knowledge he's forgotten I'm going to mail a check for $5 to our local Alzheimers Society in his honor.:thumbsup:


*Golf Clap*


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

gee, thanks Airgap.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

This question may have been confusing because it involves measurements on the Michigan journeyman exam.

On the copper test, you are given an "end to center" measurement of the entire project.

On one end, an FIP (female adapter) is installed because you then use a 3/4 MIP x 1/4 brass bushing and a 1/4 male snifter valve for air test.

Lets say the overall length is 28". End to center. If you measured 28", would you put your tape on the "end" of the female adapter or "End" of the pipe.

I say end of the pipe. I have never heard of any kind of adapter fitting being measured from it's center.

In the normal plumbing world, this is wack, I know. But at that test, it is confusing. 

When I took my journey, we did a lead wipe,now they do this copper pratical....and most fail.

I am sorry if I threw anyone for a loop. Not my intention.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

swedishcharm21 said:


> Do you guys include a Female Adapter (lets say 3/4" copper) into a end to center measurement? or would you measure from the end of the pipe to the center of the fitting. (We will call that fitting a 3/4 90)
> 
> So what I am asking, for those who did not understand my question....Would you figure an FIP into your overall end to center measurement?


 


End-end or end-center or even center-center. Then deduct for the fitting allowance. That is taught to 1st and 2nd year apprentices. Surely you can come up with tougher questions to quiz us with than your original post.....


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> End-end or end-center or even center-center. Then deduct for the fitting allowance. That is taught to 1st and 2nd year apprentices. Surely you can come up with tougher questions to quiz us with than your original post.....


I agree. Let's see what ya got.. Maybe we will learn a bit!!!


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Tommy, I know this. Maybe I just cannot explain this correct. Maybe my text is just not right. I know what you think I am asking, and as crazy as this sounds, Your answer is CORRECT,but NOT for this question.

I regret even asking anyone this question. I just do not know how to word things regarding what I want to know.

If you were a recent journeyman in Michigan and you happened to have taken the exam here....you might know what I mean.

I learned about take-offs MANY years ago. Yes, I use 1.414 for 45 offsets, yes I deduct for the fittings...yada yada yada.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I just hold up a 10 ft section of pipe and mark the distance with my finger, alot easier. :laughing:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

swedishcharm21 said:


> gee, thanks Airgap.


Well....It was funny.:whistling2:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Screw copper, pexify the damn thing. Then you only need to measure to the nearest yard or so :laughing:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Screw copper, pexify the damn thing. Then you only need to measure to the nearest yard or so :laughing:


Yard?!? You mean you split hairs over a yard or two?!?

I round up to the nearest 100' roll... everytime!

(From HWT to second floor shower = 100'
Toilet supplies = 100')

:laughing:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Something's fishy here anyway but here's the definitive answer to the original question.

The measurement would be from the end of the pipe because once you put the female adapter on it that measurement now becomes a face to center measurement. You can't make "end" measurements off fittings. fittings go face, back, throat. 

Now can we let the DIY forums handle the plumbing 101 crap and leave this to professionals. :laughing:


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

swedishcharm21 said:


> This question may have been confusing because it involves measurements on the Michigan journeyman exam.
> 
> On the copper test, you are given an "end to center" measurement of the entire project.
> 
> ...


Do you know how to make a measurment? Like tommy said this 2nd yr apprentice stuff.
Between this and your question for "novices" about 45 degree offsets it is clear your not sure to take a measurment.
"how do you know what to take off for fittings when using 1.41?" lol
Sounds like you were very lucky you wiped lead and not this imposible copper project for your journey license lol.
This stuff is not rocket science even though thats what it seems you are trying to make it.
I know you said in your private message to me that you never met a guy from ny who knew anything but, we had a copper project for our masters that sounds simmilar to what you are explaining. They would give us some ridiculous dimensions to different parts of fittings that you would never use to make a real life measurement, but you do it for the test and takeoff as needed just like any other fitting to find your pieces.
I dont have a pic but maybe another stupid guy from ny who took the test can post one.
I think what you need is a ruler, i was taught to use a 6' stick ruler, try it!
Its fine to ask questions thats what we are all here for but be straight forward and go about it differently.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

NYC Plumber said:


> Do you know how to make a measurment? Like tommy said this 2nd yr apprentice stuff.
> Between this and your question for "novices" about 45 degree offsets it is clear your not sure to take a measurment.
> "how do you know what to take off for fittings when using 1.41?" lol
> Sounds like you were very lucky you wiped lead and not this imposible copper project for your journey license lol.
> ...


That about sums it up for me too.


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