# Do you let H/O or builder do the water services?



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Dude builds a house on a slab... No-no. You don't need a slab here, its a retarded idea IMHO. Especially for a small house, the savings is not that great.

We run pex waterlines overhead and much of the house is vaulted.

He lets one of his kids put in the main water service. :blink::no:

Calls us a couple of days later to tell us that one of our hose bib lines must be kinked or something because it has no pressure. We go check the t/s in the bathroom on that end of the house and the cold has no pressure, but the hot has lots.

We played around with the stub-outs for about an hour and got about 3/4 cup of gravel and wood debris out of the lines in the bottom of a bucket, then took apart the valves and they were chock full as well. Give me a break people. Even if you're only a little careless you can get less crap in the lines than that. Everything is working fine for now, but i'm sure there is other stuff hanging up around those internal fittings......


----------



## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

We do it. Why would you let the HO play in your sand box?


----------



## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

NEVER. Its illegal here to touch any domestic waterlines without a plumbing license.


----------



## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

Once got called to a private school that had no pressure in the building after another plumbing co had cut in a new water line off the 6" main feeding the building. They somehow managed to dump a mountain of dirt and gravel on the open pipe and then proceeded to turn the water on after digging most of it out of the hole.

Big mistake. The shot all the stuff between the two cuts into the downstream side. They finished their tap and closed the hole. Three weeks later when school starts, no water in the bathrooms to flush with, no volume anywhere in the school.

I shut down the water, took all the services stops out of the urinals (the closest valves to the inlet) and turned the water back on full. 

That men's room looked like a 800 lb Labrador retriever shook off the mud in there. Oh, I did have the foresight to remove the floor drain strainers and wrap them in landscape fabric (found that in the utility in the field house, lol).

Wet vac'd the crud up, changed the service parts on all the service stops, took a brush, a bucket of soapy water and a hose and had the bathrooms back online and the problem fixed in 20 mins.


----------



## I'mYourTourGuide (Jun 23, 2008)

Maintaining the water service here isn't a problem, but you best procure a plumbing permit if you're going to add a backflow prevention device.


----------



## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

A homeowner could legally do their own under our code. I've never heard of anyone around here doing it though. Contractors have done the trench for water or sewer services before. They aren't allowed to touch any pipes though. It's very very rare we let them do it because their have been problems before with guys sitting around for hours waiting for the trench to be dug because the contractor is running late. Not to mention we use copper so if they drop a rock on it backfilling it could easially mean ripping it out and starting over.


Their are times when we do a water service to a house and another company does the plumbing in the house and vice versa. That happens whenever it saves the contractor a few hundred bucks.


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

para1 said:


> We do it. Why would you let the HO play in your sand box?


My thoughts exactly...


----------



## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

para1 said:


> We do it. Why would you let the HO play in your sand box?


The other point of view is why not let them do it if that's the only way you're getting the job. So long as you don't put your name on anything for them who cares if they screw it up. 
Take Alans post for example. I'm not sure what he did but here when we found out it wasn't something we did they would be charged for a service call. Going there to flush lines and clean cartridges for three hours is a $500 job and that's profit, no materials involved.

One thing they can't do is gas work. Every once in a while we get a call from a homeowner who did his own gas lines with the help of Home Depot or his brothers friends fathers brother in law who is a plumber. They want us to sign off on an inspection certificate saying we did the install because the gas company won't turn the gas on unless it was done by a licensed/insured company. You know they're going through the yellow pages in alphabetical order looking for someone to do it. One guy had the balls to actually call and say he was offering $100 to sign his permits.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

HO can do there own work here, from RI, TO, to set, sewer hook up, and water service, but most don't.


----------



## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Marlin said:


> One thing they can't do is gas work. Every once in a while we get a call from a homeowner who did his own gas lines with the help of Home Depot or his brothers friends fathers brother in law who is a plumber. They want us to sign off on an inspection certificate saying we did the install because the gas company won't turn the gas on unless it was done by a licensed/insured company. You know they're going through the yellow pages in alphabetical order looking for someone to do it. One guy had the balls to actually call and say he was offering $100 to sign his permits.


What nerve! I would tell the guy that I am not interested committing criminal fraud and hang up.:furious:


----------



## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

service guy said:


> What nerve! I would tell the guy that I am not interested committing criminal fraud and hang up.:furious:


Well their is a secretary who answers the phones and I heard it from her so I'm not sure exactly what was said. He was nicely told no and when he started getting pissey he was not so nicely told no and hung up on.
He wasn't technically asking us to commit fraud. We could have to go their, inspect the system, and certify that it was done correctly. Then it would be inspected by the town, gas company or both (I don't know where the guy was calling from). He could then get it turned on. In doing so we would be assuming liability just as if we had done the job.


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

I'mYourTourGuide said:


> Maintaining the water service here isn't a problem, but you best procure a plumbing permit if you're going to add a backflow prevention device.


*My code is one of the strictest in the nation, no DIY period.*

*Allowing a homeowner to do a water line based on the premise that he isn't installing a backflow seems odd, oxymoronic for the fact that a homeowner wouldn't know when to install one.*


----------



## Anthony Cicero (Sep 10, 2008)

Sometimes a HO can really make a mess; I once got a 5,000 dollar job to fix a HO water and gas mess. The inspectors were all over it. The HO did his own service and then buried it, tried to repipe himself etc.


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

LOL - 

Just got a callback today to the same house. The water to the front bath isn't working again, whats up guys?

Well, we go out there, and its just the shower valve cold side. So we tear into the A/S valve to find the port on the cold side is completely clogged with wood debris, pvc shavings, and everything else you can find in a ditch (even a piece of a plastic bag )

So we let it run for a few minutes house valve cracked no valve guts in, got all kinds of rocks and crap out.... let it run clean for a while. Put the guts back in, let it run full blast a while longer. It clogged AGAIN. Tore it apart again, same story, less the piece of plastic bag.

House is basically finished at this point, so we said the hell with it, pulled the shower curtain as best we could and let the water through full bore with no guts in. I could hear it pounding the fiberglass from outside for a few minutes. Had to do a little ragwork on the floor afterwards, but no harm done to linoleum on a slab...

Anyway... thats round 2 with this one, hope he just lets us do his water service from now on. If he doesn't, well i'll just say he must not be the brightest. :whistling2:


----------



## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Alan said:


> Anyway... thats round 2 with this one, hope he just lets us do his water service from now on. If he doesn't, well i'll just say he must not be the brightest. :whistling2:


Sounds like you're making more on service calls then you would have on the water service. Maybe you should let this guy keep going em.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm pulling permits here in a couple weeks for a 1200' water line that crosses a blue line creek and to a structure.


I don't have equipment to do this job, and all I want is the tie-in at the meter and the house, disabling the private water system completely.


Everything inbetween will be done by a contractor that doesn't have a plumbing license, but I'll be instructing him for a fee. :whistling2:


The inspectors know he's not licensed and subcontracts for all the plumbers in the area so I don't see it to be a problem.


I'm going to be a hated man but I'm going to make damn sure he brings in at least two triaxles of bank run. The owner is stating that the ground is sandy to begin with but I think the inspectors will want a "clean" sand brought in for compaction.

He's going with plastic given the length of the line, but I told him to go with K copper through the foundation wall to eliminate future problems.


----------



## plumbingpaul (Sep 18, 2008)

I have always done my own and any contractor I worked for did thier own, its the only way if your gonna warranty your work.


----------



## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

homeowners can do any trade legally , ANY. ie ( self build) they just need to pull a home owners permit. also in which case they claim all liability of workmenship.
non of which falls on inspector. but water service should be part of bid. unless existing. as well as if not part of bid then atleast inspected before you work downstream of it.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Kyle how about an intro from you, tell us about yourself, help us to know you.

Thanks


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Kyle said:


> *homeowners can do any trade legally , ANY. ie ( self build) they just need to pull a home owners permit. also in which case they claim all liability of workmenship.*
> non of which falls on inspector. but water service should be part of bid. unless existing. as well as if not part of bid then atleast inspected before you work downstream of it.


*In several states, yes they can.*
*Not in the majority.*

*...and, yeah...introduce yourself.*


----------



## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Kyle said:


> homeowners can do any trade legally , ANY. ie ( self build) they just need to pull a home owners permit. also in which case they claim all liability of workmenship.
> non of which falls on inspector. but water service should be part of bid. unless existing. as well as if not part of bid then atleast inspected before you work downstream of it.


WRONG. Here in North Carolina: working on domestic water system, sanitary drain and vent system, gas system, all require a plumbing license.

Homeowners can't do ANY water line work, drain line work or water heater work legally. Of course they still do anyway, but they are basically cancelling their homeowner's insurance coverage by doing so...the State Department of Insurance runs the State Board of Building Codes.


----------



## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

*"Plumbing, Heating, Air Conditioning, Sprinkler License Contractor Required
*A licensed plumbing, heating and air conditioning contractor is required to alter, replace or relocate plumbing or heating and air conditioning. Homeowners may perform their own plumbing or heating work if they own the land and will personally occupy the structure for 12 months after completion""- wakegov.com. North carolina guide to permit an inspection services'.


----------



## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

*"Plumbing, Heating, Air Conditioning, Sprinkler License Contractor Required
*A licensed plumbing, heating and air conditioning contractor is required to alter, replace or relocate plumbing or heating and air conditioning. Homeowners may perform their own plumbing or heating work if they own the land and will personally occupy the structure for 12 months after completion" wake gov.com


----------



## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Kyle said:


> *"Plumbing, Heating, Air Conditioning, Sprinkler License Contractor Required
> *A licensed plumbing, heating and air conditioning contractor is required to alter, replace or relocate plumbing or heating and air conditioning. Homeowners may perform their own plumbing or heating work if they own the land and will personally occupy the structure for 12 months after completion""- wakegov.com. North carolina guide to permit an inspection services'.


Well now, thats a strange loophole I never heard of. I don't see why it makes any difference how long they personally occupy the structure....and how is that supposed to be enforced?
_"Ok, Harry Houseflipper, here is your green tag inspection sticker, now you must occupy this home for 12 months..."_
Also, the vast majority of homeowners doing their own plumbing or HVAC work never pull a permit and their workmanship would not likely pass inspection.
I wonder if Insurance companies have to cover this type of work? As long a permit is pulled I guess?


----------



## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Not in the majority.*


Got proof?


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Got proof?


*Got proof to the contrary?*


----------



## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Got proof to the contrary?*


You made the claim. I haven't made any claims.


----------



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Test to see if one can reply to the thread


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Test


----------



## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

man, guys i came from a big city to a little bitty town. i had a good relationship w/ my inspectors in st. louis. i did a good job and was never cited by a pretty thourough inspection. i started in rapid city sd, 50,000 pop, to mobridge sd, 3500. nothing has changed the code is so laxed. we all have to remember we have a rescource pool here. i read the thread about homes on holmes, and yeah his plumber does some questionable things. but holmes stresses a point ,code is a starting off point. nothing in my upc code, or nat standard, or boca book says i cant go beyond their limitations. ive had a good relationship w/ inspectors because i dont let the minimum rule me. i play this game w/ heart i love my choice in vocations and im not going to let my customer suffer because code says its ok. our codes are written by lawyers, whom ive found by personal experience most suffer from asburgers syndrome, ergo lack of social skills and commen cents. i should know my wife is a lawyer.love her to death but sometimes she fights just to win not because its right, like our code writers.


----------



## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

yea i dont really like it either, but there is ups an downs to it.. i mean i install a furnace at my house.. everything all done.. i am goin to get a sparky to come in an twist two wires and a ground so i can call it good ? I mean the only thing that bothers me is the fact that inspectors dont fail more things. if its not to the tee of the code. ( unless great work just different then what code calls for) then it should be failed. but unfortunatly alot of bad stuff gets passed an thats where the standerd of work just drops. its not just the scabs.. its the scabs getting passed.


----------

