# Water treatment question



## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

If there is a better section for water treatment go ahead and move my thread accordingly ! I was just curious if anybody has any preference towards potassium chloride softeners ? I've only worked with sodium chloride softening salts before and have a customer with a potassium system and have zero experience with them.

I've done some research and its almost a no brainer salt $6 a bag vs potassium $36 a bag to achieve more less the same goal. 

Some people prefer potassium for "health reasons" . But eating an extra portion of greens a day would supplement that. 

Some people are avoiding high sodium diets and think the drinking water significantly affects this . Although depending on the hardness of water , a glass of softened water may contain less sodium than almost any other natural drink or substance. 

I feel like potassium chloride is a snake oil system that just costs more and potentially hazardous to some individuals . Surely there are low sodium systems in place that effectively soften water and reduce excessive salt deposits in water? 

Does a potassium system work differently in the HWT? Will it produce more sediment ? Or generate rust easier? Anybody notice it react with copper differently , making it more "scummy" or "slimey"? Is a different anode available? Is it easy to convert to sodium chloride without replacing tanks? 

HO is worried k+ system is ruining hwt's , (3 in 15 years) but is reluctant to give up on the system itself. So before i propose any solution i need to do my research , and any advice would be appreciated thanks!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

SSP said:


> If there is a better section for water treatment go ahead and move my thread accordingly ! I was just curious if anybody has any preference towards potassium chloride softeners ? I've only worked with sodium chloride softening salts before and have a customer with a potassium system and have zero experience with them.
> 
> I've done some research and its almost a no brainer salt $6 a bag vs potassium $36 a bag to achieve more less the same goal.
> 
> ...


Give WaterRight a call.. they will educate you on the treatment..


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

I have used when price was down... Basically " it was better for the environment" and you could drink if hard water wasn't to kitchen faucet....
IMO treat it the same as sodium.... 

Sometimes soft water affects the life of HWT's. There are threads on this.... I'm sure they will go through them wether they use salt or potassium.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

redbeardplumber said:


> I have used when price was down... Basically " it was better for the environment" and you could drink if hard water wasn't to kitchen faucet....
> IMO treat it the same as sodium....
> 
> Sometimes soft water affects the life of HWT's. There are threads on this.... I'm sure they will go through them wether they use salt or potassium.


Water heaters last longer on well system than city water..


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Water heaters last longer on well system than city water..


Except when they don't.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

The sodium in the water from a traditional salt based softner isn't the same as table salt in your water. Its only the NA part of NACL. In other words its not going to negatively affect those with high blood pressure or otherwise. They recommend it not be piped to your kitchen faucet because for cooking it isn't necessary. For cleaning dishes it is beneficial though typically thats done with hot water which will be soft water. If I were planning to install one on a new construction job I would pipe it to everything except the hose bibs. It is also such a miniscule amount that even if it were NACL it would be insignificant for those with high blood pressure. It also doesnt matter if you water your lawn with it other than it will waste the soft water and use up the expensive tablets. All a softner is is an ion exchange system. It removes the calcium and magnesium molecules and replaces them with sodium molecules.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> The sodium in the water from a traditional salt based softner isn't the same as table salt in your water. Its only the NA part of NACL. In other words its not going to negatively affect those with high blood pressure or otherwise. They recommend it not be piped to your kitchen faucet because for cooking it isn't necessary. For cleaning dishes it is beneficial though typically thats done with hot water which will be soft water. If I were planning to install one on a new construction job I would pipe it to everything except the hose bibs. It is also such a miniscule amount that even if it were NACL it would be insignificant for those with high blood pressure. It also doesnt matter if you water your lawn with it other than it will waste the soft water and use up the expensive tablets. All a softner is is an ion exchange system. It removes the calcium and magnesium molecules and replaces them with sodium molecules.


From my understanding it does not remove them per se, but the ions bond to the calcium and magnesium and they stay in suspension. I may be wrong...


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

love2surf927 said:


> From my understanding it does not remove them per se, but the ions bond to the calcium and magnesium and they stay in suspension. I may be wrong...


I think it actually does remove them and then flushes them out during the regeneration cycle. But I could also be wrong. I've always been under the impression that it does exchange them as opposed to holding them in suspension. But, I am no expert and they're very well could be systems that do exactly what you are talking about.

I think what you're talking about is an anti-scale systems that is passive and does not introduce anything into the water. The template assisted crystallization process is what it sounds like you are talking about. That is where the calcium and magnesium molecules crystallize onto a template and thus once they are crystals will not attach to your plumbing fixtures. Personally I like those systems better because they require no maintenance and no salt to add. Also, having calcium and magnesium in your water is not a bad thing. People take calcium and magnesium pills already.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/home/improvement/interior/1275126

Looks like you are right. Thank you.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

love2surf927 said:


> http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/home/improvement/interior/1275126
> 
> Looks like you are right. Thank you.


I've gone thru many water treatment courses including 8 hour long ones where we discuss the chemistry and all the functions of a softener, carbon filter, and anti-scale system. 

They can be great upsells but are tough to sell people on due to their initial cost. The savings they provide in plumbing repairs and bottled water purchasing is huge with the carbon filter but people shy away from the initial price. Over a couple years it will pay for itself for most families of 3 or 4 who drink bottled water. I can't wait to put one on my new house. Our water tastes like mud here. Its "safe" bit still tastes like crap.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I've gone thru many water treatment courses including 8 hour long ones where we discuss the chemistry and all the functions of a softener, carbon filter, and anti-scale system. They can be great upsells but are tough to sell people on due to their initial cost. The savings they provide in plumbing repairs and bottled water purchasing is huge with the carbon filter but people shy away from the initial price. Over a couple years it will pay for itself for most families of 3 or 4 who drink bottled water. I can't wait to put one on my new house. Our water tastes like mud here. Its "safe" bit still tastes like crap.


So no under counter RO system with a softener? The softener doesn't really filter out other toxins does it? I thought it was just for hard water.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

love2surf927 said:


> So no under counter RO system with a softener? The softener doesn't really filter out other toxins does it? I thought it was just for hard water.


 Softener is for hardness and slight ferric iron removal... water treatment does more.. I don't recommend RO water til they do the taste test... tastes like horse pizz


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

love2surf927 said:


> So no under counter RO system with a softener? The softener doesn't really filter out other toxins does it? I thought it was just for hard water.


Exactly. Softeners only treat the hardness. I was talking about carbon filters for cleaning the water. I kinda jumped around there. The two can work in conjunction with the carbon filter first then the softener.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

And I tend to agree with RJ regarding the RO systems. They are very wasteful and produce very acidic water. Close to 2.5 ph. They have a 1to 5 ratio on water waste. 1 gal of drinking water to 5 gallons of waste water down the drain. I, too, do not care for the taste.


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## PlumbDumber (Aug 7, 2013)

The resin in a water softener works the same whether you are using sodium chloride or potassium chloride. The sodium chloride is just slightly more effective and is quite a bit cheaper.

The amount of sodium or potassium exchange is directly proportional to the amount of hardness being removed. If you are in an area that is not extremely hard water, the amount of sodium you get from a glass of water is probably less than you would get from a slice of bread.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

PlumbDumber said:


> The amount of sodium or potassium exchange is directly proportional to the amount of hardness being removed.


I had completely forgotten about that. Thanks for the input.


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