# Union or Glued ptraps



## hayware

I've been plumbing for 17 years and after moving here I've seen things I've never e seen before, one being glued traps (obviously plastic, chrome union type) I've asked why and I'm told its code always has been and I've asked which one lol. I can't even get a reason why? We used glued in concealed locations, only. Thoughts.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

You can't conceal a union.


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## Mississippiplum

Bout the only place we use union traps is on kitchen sinks

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## GREENPLUM

I use glue traps on Tubs/showers and washbox

Undersink gets tubular slipjoint


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## hayware

Traps for lavs and kitchen sinks, I've always used union type. Kitchen and laundry with drain plug.


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## TallCoolOne

hayware said:


> Traps for lavs and kitchen sinks, I've always used union type. Kitchen and laundry with drain plug.


I have never seen a Union trap with drain plug used in my area.


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## OldSchool

TallCoolOne said:


> I have never seen a Union trap with drain plug used in my area.


Then you don't get out often enough


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## TallCoolOne

OldSchool said:


> Then you don't get out often enough


Where do you put them? Under the sink? Under the bathtub? Under Slabs?

I would assume you have open spaces or basements

What point does a drain plug serve? To drain the water out of trap?


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## OldSchool

TallCoolOne said:


> Where do you put them? Under the sink? Under the bathtub? Under Slabs?
> 
> I would assume you have open spaces or basements
> 
> What point does a drain plug serve? To drain the water out of trap?


Actually it is suppose to be considered the clean out


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## MarkToo

Union nut p-traps - less cleanout, on all basins and sinks here. Socket weld for concealed applications.


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## easttexasplumb

GREENPLUM said:


> I use glue traps on Tubs/showers and washbox
> 
> Undersink gets tubular slipjoint


Plastic or brass? :laughing:


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## AKdaplumba

I glue my union traps, that way I get the best of both worlds.:thumbup:


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## GREENPLUM

easttexasplumb said:


> Plastic or brass? :laughing:


both :thumbsup:


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## hayware

Having a glued trap in a concealed location makes sense, but have you ever used a snake that little plug doesn't quite do it. I've removed a couple and replaced with union. I'm looking for some reasoning as to why; cheaper, no leaks (they plugs leak sometimes as well). I think the union with plug would be an upgrade.


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## GREENPLUM

haywire said:


> Having a glued trap in a concealed location makes sense, but have you ever used a snake that little plug doesn't quite do it. I've removed a couple and replaced with union. I'm looking for some reasoning as to why; cheaper, no leaks (they plugs leak sometimes as well). I think the union with plug would be an upgrade.


 
Might be 

or 

More potential places to leak from


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## Happy Plumber

GREENPLUM said:


> I use glue traps on Tubs/showers and washbox
> 
> Undersink gets tubular slipjoint


I agree with him


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## U666A

OldSchool said:


> Actually it is suppose to be considered the clean out


Correct as per usual my friend. 
:thumbup:


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## 130 PLUMBER

Happy Plumber said:


> I agree with him


 
make your self useful and post a intro before you get hit by the troll spray:yes:
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/


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## 130 PLUMBER

17 gauge tubular P-traps is my drug of choice:thumbsup:


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## Brian Ayres

It all depends. Clothes washer boxes, showers and bathtubs get glued ABS or NH Cast Iron. 

You can't use a union on those fixtures usually because the traps aren't accessible. 

Under sinks I use 17 GA CP for lavs in commercial buildings, but use 1-1/2" Tubular ABS under most kitchen sinks and residential bathroom sinks. 

I carry union ABS traps for the odd job where a stout drain pipe is needed. 

I install DWV copper w/unions and cleanouts under three compartment sinks and other fixtures in restaurants if they get beat up much.
Or, if the restaurant is cheap I repair/replace the ABS as needed!


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## hayware

Good reply, but does code tell you have to use the glued traps? Probably not. I've seen leaks on all traps, usually from poor workmanship. I just think if you're the new installer think of the service guy (it may even be you as well).


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## Brian Ayres

hayware said:


> Good reply, but does code tell you have to use the glued traps? Probably not. I've seen leaks on all traps, usually from poor workmanship. I just think if you're the new installer think of the service guy (it may even be you as well).


Yes code is very clear. There are areas a trap with a union is prohibited, therefore a glued trap is mandated. 

Oregon uses the UPC

316.2.2

Approved unions shall be permitted to be used in drainage piping when accessibly located in the trap seal, or between a fixture and it's trap in the vent system, except underground or in wet vents......


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## hayware

Union traps are not illegal in Canada ( under Canadian NPC) but local jurisdictions varies. I can't get a straight answer or written documentation for NS. I can't think of any reason why they can't be used in accessible areas (union ptraps that is)


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## Goins1974

I use union traps under sinks and lavatories. They can't be used in areas that will be concealed. Glued traps, I use for tubs, showers, laundries, etc.....


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## mtfallsmikey

*Musings from the geezer...*

If memory serves me correctly, we could not get union traps at all when ABS/PVC was first introduced to the market, came along some years later. 
I miss using my yarning iron!


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## Andrew G

mtfallsmikey said:


> If memory serves me correctly, we could not get union traps at all when ABS/PVC was first introduced to the market, came along some years later.
> I miss using my yarning iron!












WTF.. Just saw this thing at a Homely Depot today. Has an internal rubber disc you can spin sort of like an impeller.. Guess that's supposed to clean the trap? Good luck with that..


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## victoryplbaz

Andrew G said:


> View attachment 27108
> 
> 
> WTF.. Just saw this thing at a Homely Depot today. Has an internal rubber disc you can spin sort of like an impeller.. Guess that's supposed to clean the trap? Good luck with that..


Saw that too...I just wish I had thought of it to sell at both HD. And Lowes


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## mtfallsmikey

That impeller will work great once a hairball spins around it...
Do they stock that trap next to the DIY CSST piping that was in last week's sale flyer?


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## suzie

In minnesota you can use union traps as code calls for access panels. However if no access can be put in because of layout/ design of home it must be a glued trap.


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## suzie

Andrew G said:


> View attachment 27108
> 
> 
> WTF.. Just saw this thing at a Homely Depot today. Has an internal rubber disc you can spin sort of like an impeller.. Guess that's supposed to clean the trap? Good luck with that..



Looks like something a hamster would run on:laughing:


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## Will

Glue traps here. Glued traps with union on sinks(lavs and kitchen)


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## theplumbinator

Same here in Jersey, glue traps or fully soldered trap for concealed locations (not accessible). LA style or union type traps for accessible or readily accessible locations. But if my code here mandated we install solvent weld or soldered traps in accessible locations I would install a clean out tee immediately after the trap so it could be rodded in the future. Even if that meant a cleanout plug sticking out of the wall with a chrome cover over it. I'm not gonna be the guy getting cursed out by the poor turd chasers after me.


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## Lja1821

Our employer mandates cleanouts for kitchen and medical sinks even though its serviceable via trap. Lav sinks co are not required.


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## Bill

Concealed we use glue traps, open we use union (Tubular) traps


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## PlungerJockey

We use glue traps for everything unless its tubular under a sink .


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## hotontheleft

OldSchool said:


> Then you don't get out often enough


 I get out a lot and I never see them in my area either.


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## MTDUNN

hotontheleft said:


> I get out a lot and I never see them in my area either.


What is your new work to service ratio?


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## hotontheleft

MTDUNN said:


> What is your new work to service ratio?


 All service at this time. most of what I run across is CI. The small supply house and hardware store in town only carry glue or nut traps, nothing with a drain on it.


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## crown36

hayware said:


> I've been plumbing for 17 years and after moving here I've seen things I've never e seen before, one being glued traps (obviously plastic, chrome union type) I've asked why and I'm told its code always has been and I've asked which one lol. I can't even get a reason why? We used glued in concealed locations, only. Thoughts.


hayware, you're asking a question that you should know the answer to.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

They want glued trap arms here in Kentucky but since my job is brought by service to 'service' those drains, I take out those glued connections and switch to marvel connectors. Keeps the cable from damaging the pipe during access to clear the drain.


That 'code' is only based on wanting a solid glued piping system with nothing other than the inlet side of the trap or union to opposite side.


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## PlungerJockey

We had a pretty good debate about hard piping traps under sinks and such about 3 1/2 years ago.


http://www.plumbingzone.com/f6/hard-piping-traps-6941/

Bill was the instigator that started it all.


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## hayware

Thanks


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## saskplumber

This is from the Code book for Canada,not sure if this is what ya want.


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## hayware

I have the code book, I was working in NS when I wrote this. They did not allow union traps or slip joints. Now they do.


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## love2surf927

If exposed/accessible always a union trap, if concealed solvent weld.... But I NEVER install tubular unless it was already there. I can't stand the stuff, seems cheap and hackish to me. I not trying to dog anyone just my personal preference.


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## iantheplumber

hayware said:


> Good reply, but does code tell you have to use the glued traps? Probably not. I've seen leaks on all traps, usually from poor workmanship. I just think if you're the new installer think of the service guy (it may even be you as well).



if you install a quality plumbing system there is no need to worry about service..


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## Plumberman

iantheplumber said:


> if you install a quality plumbing system there is no need to worry about service..


Right...

Tell that to the ladies that flush pounds of tampons down the toilet when **** water is all over the place.

All the quality systems in the world go through wear and tear by the user. There is no plumbing system that is service free...


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## Plumberman

Think that could be someone's new sig line..

Come on bro you honestly believe that?


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## love2surf927

iantheplumber said:


> if you install a quality plumbing system there is no need to worry about service..


Yes copper systems last forever right, cast iron does not deteriorate, steel tanks never leak.... Right. You must not do service. Nothing lasts forever, even the best plumbing systems will fail at some point. Water wins every time.


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## plbgbiz

Brought to you courtesy of a quality plumbing system at a bank. Nothing lasts forever...especially cast iron.


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## iantheplumber

Plumberman said:


> Right...
> 
> Tell that to the ladies that flush pounds of tampons down the toilet when **** water is all over the place.
> 
> All the quality systems in the world go through wear and tear by the user. There is no plumbing system that is service free...



that is a failure due to user stupidity...

i dont think that every properly installed system is service free.. but i also dont think that user stupidity should be blamed on the plumbing system.. i also dont think that the installer should have to worry about every little possible thing that could go wrong and have to cater to and lose money based on the fact that a drain cleaner might need access to a plumbing pipe in 15 years...


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## iantheplumber

love2surf927 said:


> Yes copper systems last forever right, cast iron does not deteriorate, steel tanks never leak.... Right. You must not do service. Nothing lasts forever, even the best plumbing systems will fail at some point. Water wins every time.


i wouldnt buy a house with copper or cast iron drains.. nor would i install them in my house... but i did install copper water lines...

and pretty much anything metal these days will fail...

its all junk metal...

the quality of products has deteriorated drastically...


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## Plumberman

iantheplumber said:


> that is a failure due to user stupidity...
> 
> i dont think that every properly installed system is service free.. but i also dont think that user stupidity should be blamed on the plumbing system.. i also dont think that the installer should have to worry about every little possible thing that could go wrong and have to cater to and lose money based on the fact that a drain cleaner might need access to a plumbing pipe in 15 years...


User stupidity aside.

Plumbing systems fail. If they didn't we would all be out of work...

Too many variables to make a statement that a quality plumbing install is service free. 

You've got to factor everything in, not just the installer.


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## iantheplumber

well sure if the engineer wants cleanouts under all the sinks at a commercial job thats one thing...

but does every home builder want cleanouts all over the place? probably not...

nor do i want to spend my money on adding extra perks for people who will not pay me for my labor or material...

my point is, not everyone can afford to think of the next guy who may have to pull a toilet to snake a drain because the home owner or whoever is a complete idiot...

personally i put an outside cleanout on the high end of my house... 

and to answer the topic question... id only use tubular pvc under a lav or sink in a cabinet... i used 2" glue traps for all my tub/showers and tub.. 2"x1 1/2"x1 1/2" tees for the waste and overflows..


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## mtfallsmikey

Plumberman said:


> Right...
> 
> Tell that to the ladies that flush pounds of tampons down the toilet when **** water is all over the place.
> 
> All the quality systems in the world go through wear and tear by the user. There is no plumbing system that is service free...


Very true, but if well-maintained by the end user, many years can go by without the need for service.



iantheplumber said:


> well sure if the engineer wants cleanouts under all the sinks at a commercial job thats one thing...
> 
> but does every home builder want cleanouts all over the place? probably not...
> 
> nor do i want to spend my money on adding extra perks for people who will not pay me for my labor or material...
> 
> my point is, not everyone can afford to think of the next guy who may have to pull a toilet to snake a drain because the home owner or whoever is a complete idiot...
> 
> personally i put an outside cleanout on the high end of my house...
> 
> and to answer the topic question... id only use tubular pvc under a lav or sink in a cabinet... i used 2" glue traps for all my tub/showers and tub.. 2"x1 1/2"x1 1/2" tees for the waste and overflows..


The first version of BOCA that Va. adopted in '72 required glue traps on everything, was not changed for several years. Most tubular brass goods today are junk, 'cept for the McGuire 17 ga. commercial stuff, but it costs $$


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## Letterrip

mtfallsmikey said:


> Very true, but if well-maintained by the end user, many years can go by without the need for service.


How exactly does an end user have a "well maintained" system. Do you mean proper usage habits? To maintain it, I would need some access point. Like maybe..... a cleanout?? And it doesn't cost the plumber extra to install cleanouts unless you fail to charge for it.


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## LIQUID

Original question. 

Glued if not accessiblle
Union if it is.. under a kitchen sink is an example of a place you require a union by code. 

As to the system lasting forever debate... water will always win over time. And anytime you see a pop machiene u can bet the system will pre maturely fail.


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## Fast fry

OMG are we still talking about this...........????? Nexxtt!


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