# Slab Leak Locate



## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

Spent 15 minutes trying to get the nut of this Kohler faucet to replace it. Wouldn't bug. Less than a minute of attention from the recip saw, and the end of the day was in sight! :thumbup:


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

JoshJ said:


> Spent 15 minutes trying to get the nut of this Kohler faucet to replace it. Wouldn't bug. Less than a minute of attention from the recip saw, and the end of the day was in sight! :thumbup:


That's aggravating...lucky for you you weren't there to rebuild it on flat rate :yes:


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> ...lucky for you you weren't there to rebuild it on flat rate :yes:


Too true! They were talking about replacing the hose (which had come apart internally), but decided to go with a new faucet instead. Not sure what I would have done if they were keeping the faucet.:no:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

A dremel is nice tool to own as well and much less aggressive.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Indie said:


> A dremel is nice tool to own as well and much less aggressive.


 








With the Dremmel tool, one looks more like a surgeon and not a butcher........also the Dremmel is much smaller so it fits into smaller areas, like under the sink.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

By the way, Josh J., I was not implying that you butchered the faucet. That wasn't my intent. I have used hacksaws to cut out kitchen faucets before.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

I keep reading and hearing people describe dremels as if they were real tools that can do work :blink:

It's been about twenty years (maybe more) since I tried to use a dremel to cut anything, but back then the cut-off wheels were pure junk...they snapped and shattered quicker than you could change them out.

Has the technology improved and it's time to give them another try, or are you fellows computer geeks disguised as plumbers? :laughing::jester:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I keep reading and hearing people describe dremels as if they are real tools that can do work :blink:
> 
> It's been about twenty years (maybe more) since I tried to use a dremel to cut anything, but back then the cut-off wheels were pure junk...they snapped and shattered quicker than you could change them out.
> 
> Has the technology improved and it's time to give them another try, or are you fellows computer geeks disguised as plumbers? :laughing::jester:


 







Mine has alot of the little wheels. Some break easy. When cutting with the flimsy wheels, do it gently and it shouldn't shatter. 

I used my Dremmel the other day under a kitchen sink (about two or three weeks ago); I used it to cut the brass nut off the underneath side of a basket strainer. Those things are difficult to remove as we all know. I didn't feel like using my hacksaw which is what I usually use in that situation.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I keep reading and hearing people describe dremels as if they were real tools that can do work :blink:
> 
> It's been about twenty years (maybe more) since I tried to use a dremel to cut anything, but back then the cut-off wheels were pure junk...they snapped and shattered quicker than you could change them out.
> 
> Has the technology improved and it's time to give them another try, or are you fellows computer geeks disguised as plumbers? :laughing::jester:


 






I got mine at Sears. I like it.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I have one of these. It gets in tighter spots than a Dremel and is a real tool.






Paul


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Looks like a tattoo gun or some then


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> By the way, Josh J., I was not implying that you butchered the faucet. That wasn't my intent. I have used hacksaws to cut out kitchen faucets before.


I'd used a blow torch


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

JoshJ said:


> Spent 15 minutes trying to get the nut of this Kohler faucet to replace it. Wouldn't bug. Less than a minute of attention from the recip saw, and the end of the day was in sight! :thumbup:


That's an unprofessional way of doing that as you take a chance of ruining the sink. Do yourself a favor and get a cordless Dremel with reinforced grinding wheels, I keep one right in my bag. I would have had that faucet off in less than 5 minutes with a Dremel, it's almost like cheating.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

It's basically what a jeweler would use. The motor is supposed to hang from a hook and the hand piece has a real chuck and accepts dremel arbors, bits and cutting wheels. 






Paul


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I keep reading and hearing people describe dremels as if they were real tools that can do work :blink:
> 
> It's been about twenty years (maybe more) since I tried to use a dremel to cut anything, but back then the cut-off wheels were pure junk...they snapped and shattered quicker than you could change them out.
> 
> Has the technology improved and it's time to give them another try, or are you fellows computer geeks disguised as plumbers? :laughing::jester:


The wheels that Tommy shown in the pic are the type I have bad luck with and shatter all the time. Get the wheels that reinforced...they look just like a 4-1/2 grinding wheel just smaller. I also like the carbide burrs for ginding and drilling....works awsome when drilling tile. #1 tool for that job.

I keep mine on the van....I don't use it for every job but when I do have to use it, it's the only tool that could've done that job.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

K...clearly it's time to give the Dremel another try :yes:

Thanks, all :thumbsup:


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

Titletownplumbr said:


> That's an unprofessional way of doing that as you take a chance of ruining the sink. Do yourself a favor and get a cordless Dremel with reinforced grinding wheels, I keep one right in my bag. I would have had that faucet off in less than 5 minutes with a Dremel, it's almost like cheating.


The whole damage to the sink thing was definitely in my mind as I did it, was real cautious, that's for sure.


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> K...clearly it's time to give the Dremel another try :yes:
> 
> Thanks, all :thumbsup:


Think I'm going to look for one too, it's time to do some tool shopping anyways!


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Cordless mutlitool with a semicircle metal cutting blade.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> K...clearly it's time to give the Dremel another try :yes:
> 
> Thanks, all :thumbsup:


Yep me too, I had the same problems with the shattering.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Air powered mini die grinder, both straight and angle, are must have tools for this exact situation.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Air powered mini die grinder, both straight and angle, are must have tools for this exact situation.


Great tools for a shop but who's got the air compressor in the van that can handle this?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessories/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=426

These are the cutting wheels to use with the dremel.

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Accessories/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=9910

This is the carbide bit for grinding tile and steel.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> Great tools for a shop but who's got the air compressor in the van that can handle this?


A compressor was always a priority tool on work trucks, and not just for running tools.


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

I always keep a small compressor in the truck. Just have never thought about using air tools for that sort of thing. I'd probably look for an electric one though, little compressor is way noisy!


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## aero1 (Feb 13, 2009)

fein multi tool for me.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Whut Josh said...I keep a compressor on the truck for locates, tests, and draining/blowing things clear, but it never occured to me to keep air tools.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Whut Josh said...I keep a compressor on the truck for locates, tests, and draining/blowing things clear, but it never occured to me to keep air tools.


Electric ?? For located??? Like slab leaked ?? How.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Electric ?? For located??? Like slab leaked ?? How.


Drink some coffee, brother...then re-type that in Texican so I can understand it :laughing:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

A compressor for locating what ?? Slab leaks?? How ??


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> A compressor for locating what ?? Slab leaks?? How ??


Essential for locating domestic or heating/chill water leaks below grade :yes:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Essential for locating domestic or heating water leaks below grade :yes:


Can I assume you are using the compressor in tandem with a Gen-Ear or something similar?
I keep a compressor with me full time as well.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Epox said:


> Can I assume you are using the compressor in tandem with a Gen-Ear or something similar?
> I keep a compressor with me full time as well.


Yes...but probably best to discuss specific techniques in the BL if there is interest. 

You _will_ need to know how to do this now that you're a service plumber, TX tech. 

Start a thread in the BL if you want to get some pointers.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Whut Josh said...I keep a compressor on the truck for locates, tests, and draining/blowing things clear, but it never occured to me to keep air tools.


No doubt but an air compressor to run a die grinder is huge....way to big for a service van, also probably need to run off 220. KTS, what did you guys need the big air compressor for?


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

gear junkie said:


> Great tools for a shop but who's got the air compressor in the van that can handle this?


:icon_redface: That would be me...

20 gal. belt driven cast iron 

"what did you guys need the big air compressor for?"

Slab leaks


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> No doubt but an air compressor to run a die grinder is huge....way to big for a service van, also probably need to run off 220. KTS, what did you guys need the big air compressor for?


The compressor was gas powered, mounted on top of the utility bed, we used it to air test water pipe a lot, ever try to use a pancake compressor to air test a twelve unit strip mall or a ten story condo building?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Killertoiletspider said:


> The compressor was gas powered, mounted on top of the utility bed, we used it to air test water pipe a lot, ever try to use a pancake compressor to air test a twelve unit strip mall or a ten story condo building?


Yes... It takes a while.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I keep reading and hearing people describe dremels as if they were real tools that can do work :blink:
> 
> It's been about twenty years (maybe more) since I tried to use a dremel to cut anything, but back then the cut-off wheels were pure junk...they snapped and shattered quicker than you could change them out.
> 
> Has the technology improved and it's time to give them another try, or are you fellows computer geeks disguised as plumbers? :laughing::jester:


I used my Dremel a couple of weeks back to cut out a very old tub drain. It was a heavy duty brass drain that would not budge. Cut it from the top, made about 8 quick cuts looked like a flower, popped the pieces out dropped the bottom, no damage done to the cast iron tub. 

Just bought a variety pack of cutting wheels. Brass faucet nuts and strainer nuts don't take but a minute with the Dremel.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Dremel is one of must have tool on the truck.. if I take it off, I'll need it on the next job. Upcoming job, I have 36 allen head screws painted over dozen times. Perfect tool for the job.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Dremel tool great for splitting Delta dome nuts.Also cutting 11/2 dwv copper coming out of floor for tub waste. Recommend nitrogen tank 40cf or tracer gas for leak detection


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The bear said:


> Dremel tool great for splitting Delta dome nuts.Also cutting 11/2 dwv copper coming out of floor for tub waste. Recommend nitrogen tank 40cf or tracer gas for leak detection


 








Do you do alot of leak detection? The companies I worked for always subbed out that work. Even today, I sub out that work usually (unless I open walls and start cutting and capping manifolds). Are the headphones and other gear costly? If not, I'll do my own slab leak detection. American Leak Detection is who I/we have always used.

If memory serves me correctly, (15) gallons an hour is the minimum that can be detected; really small pinhole leaks could not be found. Is that accurate?


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> Do you do alot of leak detection? The companies I worked for always subbed out that work. Even today, I sub out that work usually (unless I open walls and start cutting and capping manifolds). Are the headphones and other gear costly? If not, I'll do my own slab leak detection. American Leak Detection is who I/we have always used.
> 
> If memory serves me correctly, (15) gallons an hour is the minimum that can be detected; really small pinhole leaks could not be found. Is that accurate?


In Houston you don't need a gen-ear. Just an air compressor, fish tape, and a locator device that sends a current thru the copper so you can find both ends if the fish tape wont go thru. It also helps to have a lot of experience so you can maximize your time. We re-route them only. We eliminate and re-route via attic or ceiling with pex. We never jack hammer. I have done hundreds of them. Its great money and customers prefer not jack hammering. I use air to locate outside underground leaks too but our water services are typically about 1-2' deep.


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

*le Dremel*

The dremel I purchased today. Went with an electric cause I don't feel like dragging the compressor into a house every time I need it.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

JoshJ said:


> The dremel I purchased today. Went with an electric cause I don't feel like dragging the compressor into a house every time I need it.


I believe that is the one I own. Good tool. Grab a cord on the way in and your good to go.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> Do you do alot of leak detection? The companies I worked for always subbed out that work. Even today, I sub out that work usually (unless I open walls and start cutting and capping manifolds). Are the headphones and other gear costly? If not, I'll do my own slab leak detection. American Leak Detection is who I/we have always used.
> 
> If memory serves me correctly, (15) gallons an hour is the minimum that can be detected; really small pinhole leaks could not be found. Is that accurate?


Yes I do a lot of leak detection and under slab repair. I use locating equipment and nitrogen to locate. I have been locating slab leaks with electronics for 19 years. We do not open walls or cap manifolds.Normally locate and repair 2 to 3 hrs.We also get tiny pinholes on copper manifolds in stud walls and outside block walls. Some of the small pinholes do not even register on the water meters leak indicators.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

The bear said:


> Yes I do a lot of leak detection and under slab repair. I use locating equipment and nitrogen to locate. I have been locating slab leaks with electronics for 19 years. We do not open walls or cap manifolds.Normally locate and repair 2 to 3 hrs.We also get tiny pinholes on copper manifolds in stud walls and outside block walls. Some of the small pinholes do not even register on the water meters leak indicators.


 How do you locate and repair in only 2 to 3 hours? How are you making the repair? Where are you introducing the nitrogen if you do not open walls or cut into manifolds? You have got me intrigued. I have been doing leak detection for about 8 years and have always re-routed.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

My customers are always relieved I won't be busting into floor. This assumes residential of course.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Rerouting has never been popular in my area unless it is a total repipe.Normally it is break slab and make repair.


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

The bear said:


> Rerouting has never been popular in my area unless it is a total repipe.Normally it is break slab and make repair.


Why not? I haven't repaired a residential slab leak in the floor since the 90's. insurance companies out here prefer re-route every time... Except maybe on flat roof houses.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

mightypipe said:


> Why not? I haven't repaired a residential slab leak in the floor since the 90's. insurance companies out here prefer re-route every time here... Except maybe on flat roof houses.


Most of are locate and repair is less than homeowners deductible in my area.
Some customers fail to grasp that fixing a leak in the slab is only a temporary solution to a bigger problem. I present all options to my customer and let them decide how they want to precede. The only time that changes is when customer and I don't agree on how work should be performed. Example: Customer calls late Friday and states she has a bowl stoppage. Upon arrival toilet has backed up into tub indicating main sewer line blockage. She precedes to tell me that this has happened before and plumbers go on roof and clear from vent stack. I look at roof and see a 11/2 vent stack. I tell her that I will not clear a 4" main line thru a 11/2 stack. If I do it I am going to locate main line coming out of house,open cleanout and run k1500.She tells me no one can find it and their is no cleanout. So I locate line,dig down and chisel off co plug and rod line. I also check in front of cleanout and determine pipe changes to orangeburg tar paper pipe.
Customer now knows what is causing her blockage problems and how much she needs to budget to replace line to street. I was also able to determine new addition on home was put over existing tar paper sewer. She than understood why I do not clean main lines from roof vents.


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

The bear said:


> Most of are locate and repair is less than homeowners deductible in my area.
> Some customers fail to grasp that fixing a leak in the slab is only a temporary solution to a bigger problem. I present all options to my customer and let them decide how they want to precede. The only time that changes is when customer and I don't agree on how work should be performed. Example: Customer calls late Friday and states she has a bowl stoppage. Upon arrival toilet has backed up into tub indicating main sewer line blockage. She precedes to tell me that this has happened before and plumbers go on roof and clear from vent stack. I look at roof and see a 11/2 vent stack. I tell her that I will not clear a 4" main line thru a 11/2 stack. If I do it I am going to locate main line coming out of house,open cleanout and run k1500.She tells me no one can find it and their is no cleanout. So I locate line,dig down and chisel off co plug and rod line. I also check in front of cleanout and determine pipe changes to orangeburg tar paper pipe.
> Customer now knows what is causing her blockage problems and how much she needs to budget to replace line to street. I was also able to determine new addition on home was put over existing tar paper sewer. She than understood why I do not clean main lines from roof vents.


Insurance companies here won't pay for the actual brazing of a pinhole and a coupling, but pay for everything else... Tile, drywall damaged by water, baseboards, cabinets, concrete, dry-out contractor, location of leak, etc... The actual repair of the pipe might be less than their deductible, but the rest of it wouldn't be would it? Hell, the dry-out is usually more than $1000 out here by itself... How much do you get for a slab leak repair and locate?


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

mightypipe said:


> Insurance companies here won't pay for the actual brazing of a pinhole and a coupling, but pay for everything else... Tile, drywall damaged by water, baseboards, cabinets, concrete, dry-out contractor, location of leak, etc... The actual repair of the pipe might be less than their deductible, but the rest of it wouldn't be would it? Hell, the dry-out is usually more than $1000 out here by itself... How much do you get for a slab leak repair and locate?


A lot of our slab leaks have no water damage water running into sand under slab. Insurance will not cover they consider it maintenance of the home. Some times customer has no idea he has a leak until utility company notifies
them. Pm me about pricing.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I moved this thread to Residential section to continue with slab leak locating and not to de-rail the sawzall and dremmel thread.

So this thread can continue with slab leak location.


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

Access and egress is what they pay. Never had problems with them paying for slab penetrations, re-routes or tunnels. PM me for prices too if you want.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

When I did new construction, on occasion a top-out water piping wouldn't hold pressure. So we knew one of the slab guys had hit a line when they were installing stakes before they poured the slab (especially when we had pex lines). The slab guys would sometimes add forms after we did our ground rough.

It was easy to re-route a water line overhead while we were doing a top-out. Cut open a few manifolds, find the line that wasn't holding water, and replace the line by re-routing overhead. 

That's how I've done it when I went into service. Sometimes I had a leak detection company locate a slab leak, sometimes I would locate.

One post commented that an air compressor can be used. Is it just a matter of charging up an outside hose spigot with nitrogen or an air compressor? And then listening to the air bubbles with a listening device?
Does one have to buy fancy high-priced listening equipment or can I use a stethoscope(no joke intended, my wife is an RN and has them laying around).


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> When I did new construction, on occasion a top-out water piping wouldn't hold pressure. So we knew one of the slab guys had hit a line when they were installing stakes before they poured the slab (especially when we had pex lines). The slab guys would sometimes add forms after we did our ground rough.
> 
> It was easy to re-route a water line overhead while we were doing a top-out. Cut open a few manifolds, find the line that wasn't holding water, and replace the line by re-routing overhead.
> 
> ...


We sub out our locates sometimes when they prove to be difficult. The guy we used to use (has passed away) is the best I have ever seen. Only really used geophones and air. There were many occasions where he left me in awe. One in particular was when he traced the leak, that was presenting loud rushing sound in the kitchen, to the back yard. He said, " here it is. Sounds like a leak on a 1"x3/4" tee. It's about 3 feet down and oh yeah, there's a buried ball valve down there." Dug it up and it was exactly as he had predicted. He was a real genius. He actually trained the guy we use now so it's a close second.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Yes, Tommy. That is how I have always done it. The air will come up on one manifold or the other or wherever the water is showing itself. Then you just have to determine which line is leaking by a process of elimination. Of course, The Bear said the houses he works on oftentimes don't have any noticeable water leaking, just a high water bill and in those cases Geo-phones or some other device would help to determine which line is leaking. I guess what part of the world you're working in determines how you approach it.


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Yes, Tommy. That is how I have always done it. The air will come up on one manifold or the other or wherever the water is showing itself. Then you just have to determine which line is leaking by a process of elimination. Of course, The Bear said the houses he works on oftentimes don't have any noticeable water leaking, just a high water bill and in those cases Geo-phones or some other device would help to determine which line is leaking. I guess what part of the world you're working in determines how you approach it.


We need a thermal sonar machine so we can just look through the earth! Shouldn't be that expensive/hard to create. Right?


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

The bear said:


> A lot of our slab leaks have no water damage water running into sand under slab. Insurance will not cover they consider it maintenance of the home. Some times customer has no idea he has a leak until utility company notifies
> them. Pm me about pricing.


Yes, I see... I have had a couple of those.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johntheplumber said:


> We need a thermal sonar machine so we can just look through the earth! Shouldn't be that expensive/hard to create. Right?


They already have one... but I just use the dog.


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> They already have one... but I just use the dog.


What is the dog?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johntheplumber said:


> What is the dog?


Four legged man's best friend!


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Four legged man's best friend!


I knew a guy years ago when I first started who had trained his dog to do that... You must be really old... I mean 'experienced'


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Four legged man's best friend!


How do you train a dog to find a leak? And can I buy yours?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johntheplumber said:


> How do you train a dog to find a leak? And can I buy yours?


Have to be deaf to understand..


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I am happy we don't have many slabs around here. Unfortunately we do have crawls that are to tight to fit in and lots of trailers.


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

johntheplumber said:


> How do you train a dog to find a leak? And can I buy yours?


Don't know about RJ, but the guy I knew (I should say met a couple of times) said the dog just did it himself. He got it from the pound, and it went crazy whenever somebody turned on water. Would attack the hose, the shower, the faucet, whatever. One day he had a slab leak in his own house and the dog went crazy scratching the kitchen floor. Turned out the leak was there.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Wow! That is awesome and marketable.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

I think the mods are tired of trying to herd us cats :whistling2:

One of them just renamed Josh's faucet change out thread to "slab leak thread" 

No spankings dispensed :no:...we're wearing them down, brothers :laughing:


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

My first call tomorrow is a customer who received a large water bill. He originally called it in as a leak in yard. Now he is not sure because no water has shown up between house and meter.Leak indicator is moving. Do not know if he has a shut off at the house. He is in a neighborhood that many homes have had copper failure. This is a typical call we get. Most likely it will be under slab. I carry detection equipment on van and I will bring tracer gas in case it is between house and meter.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The bear said:


> My first call tomorrow is a customer who received a large water bill. He originally called it in as a leak in yard. Now he is not sure because no water has shown up between house and meter.Leak indicator is moving. Do not know if he has a shut off at the house. He is in a neighborhood that many homes have had copper failure. This is a typical call we get. Most likely it will be under slab. I carry detection equipment on van and I will bring tracer gas in case it is between house and meter.


 






What tracer equipment do you have?


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> What tracer equipment do you have?


I met a gentleman who is a rep for several manufacturers of helium and hydrogen detectors. I tested out a unit that he had and purchase it.He has a
hydrogen detector package with tank,gauge, and detector for around $1500.00.I helped him with the probe it mounts on.I use 95/5 tracer gas.
Started using it after Gettinit posted about tracer gas


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I think the mods are tired of trying to herd us cats :whistling2:
> 
> One of them just renamed Josh's faucet change out thread to "slab leak thread"
> 
> No spankings dispensed :no:...we're wearing them down, brothers :laughing:


We are no longer mods...we are sanitation engineers.


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

The bear said:


> I met a gentleman who is a rep for several manufacturers of helium and hydrogen detectors. I tested out a unit that he had and purchase it.He has a
> hydrogen detector package with tank,gauge, and detector for around $1500.00.I helped him with the probe it mounts on.I use 95/5 tracer gas.
> Started using it after Gettinit posted about tracer gas


How do you use the gas? Does it only work for outside leaks or does it detect under slab?


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

johntheplumber said:


> How do you use the gas? Does it only work for outside leaks or does it detect under slab?


The problem I have with inside leaks under slab is the visqueen stops the tracer gas from coming up. Also I have had it take the path of least resistance. Once you determine pipe path you would have to drill slab because of vapor barrier.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

The bear said:


> I met a gentleman who is a rep for several manufacturers of helium and hydrogen detectors. I tested out a unit that he had and purchase it.He has a
> hydrogen detector package with tank,gauge, and detector for around $1500.00.I helped him with the probe it mounts on.I use 95/5 tracer gas.
> Started using it after Gettinit posted about tracer gas


Isn't hydrogen gas the primary component of rocket fuel? :blink:


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Isn't hydrogen gas the primary component of rocket fuel? :blink:


It is a mixture of 95% nitrogen and 5% hydrogen. Most welding suppliers carry it. It is perfectly safe and used extensively in Europe for leak detection. Metrotech has a leak detector with tracer gas option. I believe Sewerin also makes one.The gas supplier I use can also mix with less hydrogen and I may try a lower percentage of hydrogen to see if that helps with it coming up through path of least resistance


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

The bear said:


> It is a mixture of 95% nitrogen and 5% hydrogen. Most welding suppliers carry it. It is perfectly safe and used extensively in Europe for leak detection. Metrotech has a leak detector with tracer gas option. I believe Sewerin also makes one.The gas supplier I use can also mix with less hydrogen and I may try a lower percentage of hydrogen to see if that helps with it coming up through path of least resistance


Hydrogen is the smallest element on the periodic table, brother. 

That's probably why it's used...it'll pass through almost anything easily. Decreasing the hydrogen would make it harder to detect. 

Our atmosphere is 60% nitrogen...you're detector isn't detecting the nitrogen, I think...it's detecting the hydrogen.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Hydrogen is the smallest element on the periodic table, brother.
> 
> That's probably why it's used...it'll pass through almost anything easily. Decreasing the hydrogen would make it harder to detect.
> 
> Our atmosphere is 60% nitrogen...you're detector isn't detecting the nitrogen, I think...it's detecting the hydrogen.


The detector is for hydrogen and is extremely sensitive. We are working with
the percentages to try and control it better in the slab. The manufacturer rep for the detector has years of experience with hydrogen gas and helium. His company sells detectors for multiple applications.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

The bear said:


> The detector is for hydrogen and is extremely sensitive. We are working with
> the percentages to try and control it better in the slab. The manufacturer rep for the detector has years of experience with hydrogen gas and helium. His company sells detectors for multiple applications.


It sounds like a really good system...thanks for sharing, brother :yes:


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

*leak detection update*



The bear said:


> My first call tomorrow is a customer who received a large water bill. He originally called it in as a leak in yard. Now he is not sure because no water has shown up between house and meter.Leak indicator is moving. Do not know if he has a shut off at the house. He is in a neighborhood that many homes have had copper failure. This is a typical call we get. Most likely it will be under slab. I carry detection equipment on van and I will bring tracer gas in case it is between house and meter.


Went to my first call this morning. Customer's leak indicator spinning on water meter. Shut off ball valve at house and isolated sprinkler system. Meter still spinning. Piping is pvc and property is about 8 acres. Distance from meter to house has to be close to a 1/4 mile. Also several hose bibbs on stand pipes.
I had brought a 40cf tank of tracer gas but not sure if that would be enough.
Job site was not far from my shop so ran back and got 300cf tank. Induced tracer gas through hose bibb and purged water at farthest bibb. Waited about 20 minutes and began walking property. Started near house because of large oak trees, my thinking that possibly line broken from roots.After about a 1/2 hour I worked my way toward road and water meter. About 8' from meter, detector started going off indicating the presence of hydrogen. Dug down about 18" and found 1"x3/4" tee cracked. Do not believe I would of found this leak with acoustic detection. There was no surface water and very little sound from leak.Will try to post a couple of pictures if I can figure out how.


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

What brand detector is it?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Did you pump the water out of the main line or was there a low spot to drain down, or was the leak enough to get rid of the H2o?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

The bear said:


> Went to my first call this morning. Customer's leak indicator spinning on water meter. Shut off ball valve at house and isolated sprinkler system. Meter still spinning. Piping is pvc and property is about 8 acres. Distance from meter to house has to be close to a 1/4 mile. Also several hose bibbs on stand pipes.
> I had brought a 40cf tank of tracer gas but not sure if that would be enough.
> Job site was not far from my shop so ran back and got 300cf tank. Induced tracer gas through hose bibb and purged water at farthest bibb. Waited about 20 minutes and began walking property. Started near house because of large oak trees, my thinking that possibly line broken from roots.After about a 1/2 hour I worked my way toward road and water meter. About 8' from meter, detector started going off indicating the presence of hydrogen. Dug down about 18" and found 1"x3/4" tee cracked. Do not believe I would of found this leak with acoustic detection. There was no surface water and very little sound from leak.Will try to post a couple of pictures if I can figure out how.


They do have their good and bad sides. How did you know exactly where the line was? I have to go really slow or it can easily miss the gas.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The bear said:


> Went to my first call this morning. Customer's leak indicator spinning on water meter. Shut off ball valve at house and isolated sprinkler system. Meter still spinning. Piping is pvc and property is about 8 acres. Distance from meter to house has to be close to a 1/4 mile. Also several hose bibbs on stand pipes.
> I had brought a 40cf tank of tracer gas but not sure if that would be enough.
> Job site was not far from my shop so ran back and got 300cf tank. Induced tracer gas through hose bibb and purged water at farthest bibb. Waited about 20 minutes and began walking property. Started near house because of large oak trees, my thinking that possibly line broken from roots.After about a 1/2 hour I worked my way toward road and water meter. About 8' from meter, detector started going off indicating the presence of hydrogen. Dug down about 18" and found 1"x3/4" tee cracked. *Do not* *believe I would of found this leak with acoustic detection*. There was no surface water and very little sound from leak.Will try to post a couple of pictures if I can figure out how.


 






So you can perform leak detection by sound and by smell (as in the case of the hydrogen gas). Interesting. The gas won't be detectable inside below slab, but only outdoors. Learned something new.

A question, any concerns with the gas hydrogen? It's flammable isn't it?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> Did you pump the water out of the main line or was there a low spot to drain down, or was the leak enough to get rid of the H2o?


There is only one unit that I know of and they say it is best to keep the line full and it will carry the gas to the leak better, faster and with less gas.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> Did you pump the water out of the main line or was there a low spot to drain down, or was the leak enough to get rid of the H2o?


I hooked up at a hose bibb on pvc stand pipe about 40feet from meter. Went to back of property behind house and open another hose bibb on a pvc standpipe and left it on until all water was purged. I just thought it would make finding the leak quicker if the entire water service had tracer gas in it. Also I honestly thought the leak would be near the house because of large oak trees near where water service entered home.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> So you can perform leak detection by sound and by smell (as in the case of the hydrogen gas). Interesting. The gas won't be detectable inside below slab, but only outdoors. Learned something new.
> 
> A question, any concerns with the gas hydrogen? It's flammable isn't it?


No concerns with the tracer gas. 95% nitrogen and 5% hydrogen. If you google it you will find it being used in europe for leak detection.I think if you have a slab leak inside a building the tracer gas can help especially if you can trace the piping and drill above it. If you have visqueen under slab and do not drill I doubt gas will surface over leak.
By the way I took pictures on cell phone of jobsite and emailed them to myself but have not been able to figure out how to load to PZ.


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

Back to demle tool great for sharpening self feed hole hits on job


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

The bear said:


> No concerns with the tracer gas. 95% nitrogen and 5% hydrogen. If you google it you will find it being used in europe for leak detection.I think if you have a slab leak inside a building the tracer gas can help especially if you can trace the piping and drill above it. If you have visqueen under slab and do not drill I doubt gas will surface over leak.
> By the way I took pictures on cell phone of jobsite and emailed them to myself but have not been able to figure out how to load to PZ.


It will not penetrate plastic.


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