# AO smith vs Bradford W



## Bendite (Jan 5, 2016)

I have always preferred BW water heaters, elec, gas, commercial, etc but they are not a Fergusun rep. I do most my business w Fergusun and get a much better buy out from them and their service and knowledge here is Great. What are your opinions for AO smith. The ones I have installed seemed every bit as good as BW. With the newer regulations how has AO Smith do be vs BW? I have heard of past AO problems. Water heater choices seemed very linked to Demographics. I have never installed a Rheem or sone other popular brands back east.

Thoughts or comments appreciated. I am new to the site... Nice to meet you all... Thanks 
Justin


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

i bought a bw from fergy this morning.:yes:


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Post an introduction and properly join the zone


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Do an Intro Post here...

And you'll feel the love...

No big deal just a bit about yourself...
Where you plumb... doesn't have to be precise, a state or province is good...
The kind of work you do...
And anything else you'd wanna tell us...
Favorite beer, hunting, fishing...

Painless...


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## Bendite (Jan 5, 2016)

Ok got the intro done.
forgot to tell you I'm from Oregon.

BTW 
Fully licensed for all work I do
Not a hack
Not a spammer


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

The Bradfords are going down hill fast around here...
The Smiths seem to be a better quality as far as length of lifetime...

We are dealing with bradfords going out in less than 5 years all the time
and this has been on-going for probably 5 years... I guess they are not baking a good glass liner onto the inner side of the tanks anymore....
they are popping like pop-corn and I am gonna be glad when we are finally out of the woods with them... We stopped using them in 2010 when the Icon valve came out but and are sticking with Rheem only.... 

we dont see as many Smiths going out under warranty as the bradfords are and we rarely have issues with Rheem


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I keep records of what I replace here in the midwest. The AO Smith tanks have an average lifespan of 21.7 years out of the last 19 I have replaced. Bradford White tanks have a 13.4 year average out of 38 I have replaced. 

Those are real averages but I have to bring up that there weren't many Bradford White tanks installed before 1995. 

AO Smith, State, Whirlpool had a lot of issues once they went to a sealed combustion chamber (2004-2007). They may have worked those issues out but I still have an occasional call from a 2 yr old AO where the pilot has gone out. I also see a decent amount of BW tanks that are 3-6 years old and leaking from the tank. Usually on the 50's in a closed system and high water pressure. 

I stock both brands. One thing that will cut the lifespan in 1/2 or more is a water softener, especially when the supply lines are copper.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I think AO Smith's FVIR Design flat out sucks...

It draws combustion air into the water heater from underneath and reminds me of a Hoover Vacuum Cleaner sucking dirt into the flame arrestor...

Bradford White draws the air from the side of the unit and has a reset button on the thermostatic switch protecting from an FVIR event...

Rheem draws combustion air from the side but has a glass vial which breaks in an FVIR event and cannot be reset...

I'll put Bradford White in 1st place, Rheem in 2nd place... and AO Smith in last place...


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## plumberfarmer (Dec 20, 2015)

I switched from AO to BW five years ago because my distributor switched due to pricing that's the story I got anyway. I have only had one go so far it was a power vent that had a short in the wiring at start up while I was diagnosing the wiring issue I noticed that it was leaking. I have replaced lots of competitor installed ao heaters under warretny lately or just out of warranty. I have had a couple customers lately that wouldn't let me install another AO they were so upset about how the last couple of water heaters had lasted. So I guess I am happy with switching to BW!


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

I install Bradford White, but online reviews are horrible. DIY guys bash them because they can't get parts. DIY guys are proud of themselves for installing Rheem from Home Depot and post how great they are. How many homeowners post how great a plumber installed BW water heater is?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Debo22 said:


> I install Bradford White, but online reviews are horrible. DIY guys bash them because they can't get parts. DIY guys are proud of themselves for installing Rheem from Home Depot and post how great they are. How many homeowners post how great a plumber installed BW water heater is?


Nothing quite offends a DIYer like being told to hire a plumber...:laughing:

I get that!:thumbup:


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

I thought AOS was built outside of USA.

Bradford whites are still built in USA

The newer AOS Smith look like a cheaper grade than the ones I used to install about 8 years ago. I only install BW now of days....


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I much prefer BW but we install State/AO Smith mostly due to access as there is no local BW vendor around us (other than an HVAC supply house).

I will not install the Rheem due to the glass vial. Been there, done that, had the glass vial break on a Fri afternoon, took 2 attempts and 2 weeks for Rheem to get the glass vial to arrive. Of course the water heater was already removed (2 actually) so I still have the glass vials at the shop.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Debo22 said:


> I install Bradford White, but online reviews are horrible. DIY guys bash them because they can't get parts. DIY guys are proud of themselves for installing Rheem from Home Depot and post how great they are. How many homeowners post how great a plumber installed BW water heater is?


 Meanwhile 90% of the backdrafting water heaters are Rheem (GE) and Whirlpool. It's always the guys that think they are handy that seem to manage poisoning their families. Backdrafting water heaters also have the most pilot issues which is why the Rheem name will be trashed in 5 years. Also don't put too much stock in the reviews on the Home Depot website. They delete most of the bad ones. I have bought 2 Rheem low boys on separate occasions when in a bind. Both times there were large dents and it had to be returned. Both times I left 1 star reviews and each time my review was deleted.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I think AO Smith's FVIR Design flat out sucks... It draws combustion air into the water heater from underneath and reminds me of a Hoover Vacuum Cleaner sucking dirt into the flame arrestor... Bradford White draws the air from the side of the unit and has a reset button on the thermostatic switch protecting from an FVIR event... .


The new AO tanks have a baffle on the bottom of the tank to prevent the dust from being sucked up. They also have a thermal switch, just like the BW. 

Also, BW isn't really made in the US. The gas valve is made in Mexico by Honeywell. 

Lastly the AO power vent blows BW out of the water on efficiency, performance, price, and now serviceability. Their old PV's had a lot of issues but I'm sold on the .7.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> The new AO tanks have a baffle on the bottom of the tank to prevent the dust from being sucked up. They also have a thermal switch, just like the BW.



Right! Their "Air Filter" just a work around on a shiot design...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

BW & Rheem reviews are terrible,
And every time I install a water heater these reviews come up.

It's quite annoying.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Fatpat said:


> BW & Rheem reviews are terrible,
> And every time I install a water heater these reviews come up.
> 
> It's quite annoying.


This is what lead to me developing Water Heater Database. It has helped tremendously. Tell your clients to google "water heater database". It's the only website in the world that has actual documented instances of how long water heaters really last. 

I firmly believe most negative online reviews are because the DIY'er phaced up the install.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Right! Their "Air Filter" just a work around on a shiot design...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not referring to the filter. This was something that was just implemented after April 19, 2015.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> I'm not referring to the filter. This was something that was just implemented after April 19, 2015.



Okay...
I'll have to keep an eye out for their latest and greatest...
My expectations aren't high...
Kinda like what they'd be for an American Standard Champion 5...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> This is what lead to me developing Water Heater Database. It has helped tremendously. Tell your clients to google "water heater database". It's the only website in the world that has actual documented instances of how long water heaters really last.



How large of a geographic region does this database cover?


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

Thanks KC good info


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Redwood said:


> How large of a geographic region does this database cover?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Users can checkin from anywhere from the U.S. The current data has all been uploaded by me over the last 4 months. I'm really disappointed that BW hasn't accumulated a longer average lifespan. So if you're seeing them last longer in your area you are more than welcome to use the app, just need an iPhone. 

As you know, most plumbing contractors just want to pay an SEO company or HA for leads so they don't see the value in capturing and displaying data on their website. Instead, let's pay a SEO company to write informational "plumbing articles". 

Within the next 30 days the Wordpress Plugin will be complete which will allow users to capture reviews and display them on their website. It will also allow Contractors to display the average lifespan of each tank on their site.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Is use ao smith/state water heaters for 10 plus years. Have had very little issues


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I got a customer with a Rheem (I think, need to pull up the photo) that is 50 years old next year. She is going to call the manufacturer as the big 50 approaches. I haven't been there in a year or more but assume it's still working.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumberkc said:


> The new AO tanks have a baffle on the bottom of the tank to prevent the dust from being sucked up. They also have a thermal switch, just like the BW.
> 
> Also, BW isn't really made in the US. The gas valve is made in Mexico by Honeywell.
> 
> Lastly the AO power vent blows BW out of the water on efficiency, performance, price, and now serviceability. Their old PV's had a lot of issues but I'm sold on the .7.



KC....I am leaning towards the Simths over the Bradfords at this point as the back up heater brand for me..... 

Have you ever taken the time to lay one of these on their sides and got some pictures of the inner workings of the filters on the bottom of them?? 
That would be helpful the next time you get one.. I would like to see how they have supposedly transformed themselves,,,, 

The bradfords certainly have the superior quality air intake system but the quality of their tanks has become my biggest issue..... and of course the ICON valve SUCKS too..


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> KC....I am leaning towards the Simths over the Bradfords at this point as the back up heater brand for me.....
> 
> Have you ever taken the time to lay one of these on their sides and got some pictures of the inner workings of the filters on the bottom of them??
> That would be helpful the next time you get one.. I would like to see how they have supposedly transformed themselves,,,,
> ...



I posted a picture several months ago of the bottom of the tank but I can't seem to find it. I'll take another one next chance I get. 


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumberkc said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks KC for the bottom shot....
Now you need to take a can opener and open the bottom up then lets take a look inside into the real guts of the unit to see how it ticks......

From what I am seeing it appears that the air goes through the black screen mesh then into the unit probably through a metal screen like the whirlpools have used... maybe they have grown some brains and some common sense and upgraded that crappy design too!!!!! 

The only way to know for sure is to make a " human sacrifice" of one of them to the plumbing gods.....and cut it open.......:blink::blink:

I dont care for that crappy honeywell thermostat and thermopile that 
has to be inside that unit...... thats trouble just waiting to happen 

I need to get my hands on a new damaged one and tear it apart to 
see how it works........
:yes::yes:


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

dhal22 said:


> I got a customer with a Rheem (I think, need to pull up the photo) that is 50 years old next year. She is going to call the manufacturer as the big 50 approaches. I haven't been there in a year or more but assume it's still working.


That is awesome! My parents had a Rheem and it finally died last year. It was 22 years of age. 50 years is unbelievable! I guess they don't make them like they used to huh. Hmmm... do they design them now to fail on purpose in a certain given range of time. Yes, different factors apply to the lifespan, but seems that there is a trend of w.h.'s after 2000 not lasting long. Keeps the manufacturer in business????....just a thought.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's about what I expected...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> Also, BW isn't really made in the US. The gas valve is made in Mexico by Honeywell.


I guess you really can't say AO Smiths are Made in the USA either...:whistling2:

The Voltex hybrid electric heat pump water heater are made in China along with AO Smith's anode rods...

And their water heater plants in Juarez, Mexico also makes residential gas and electric water heaters and heat pump water heaters...

And their Stratford Ontario Canada plant makes Pump tanks and pressure tanks for the U.S. and Canadian markets...


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I saw a bunch of State/AO Smith heaters rolling off the assembly line in Tennessee a couple of years ago. I assumed they're made here.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I think some are made in mexico and go to the west coast and some are made in Tennessee.... 

Smith has bought up a lot of crappier companies like 
american water heaters, state, sears, Locihinvar, and of course Whirlpool....

I just tangled with a lochinvar the day before x-mas and parts were not available at their supply house... The honeywell control board shorted out and they did not have any in stock... We tore out this 2011
unit and installed a Rheem so they could have hot water for x-mas company


NOW if A.O.Smith were wise they would copy the original FVIR bradford white modelfrom 2004 and implement that air intake on all their brands.....
Use the older Robert Shaw thermostat and stay away from the new crappy Honeywell thermoplie style gas valves........ 

Smith would probably solve all their problems and throw the water heater market on its heels....they would finally have a superior brand.

It would be very simple to dothis , but that would mean swallowing their pride and admitting that their FVIR product sucks.... and spending the money to re-tool everything......


NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.... it wont happen.........


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> Smith has bought up a lot of crappier companies like Locihinvar....


I was actually of the opinion that Lochinvar was good until AO Smith bought them...:laughing:




Master Mark said:


> NOW if A.O.Smith were wise they would copy the original FVIR bradford white model from 2004 and implement that air intake on all their brands.....
> Use the older Robert Shaw thermostat and stay away from the new crappy Honeywell thermopile style gas valves........
> 
> Smith would probably solve all their problems and throw the water heater market on its heels....they would finally have a superior brand.
> ...


I'll agree with you on that except for the gas valve bit...
I've had pretty decent luck with them without hitting them with ChannelLock pliers...:thumbup:


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## Blackhawk (Jul 23, 2014)

I have no issues with Bradford units, never a problem with the Icon valve either. installed over 200 units last year.... 1 call back, and it ended up being a birds nest plugging the exhaust on a powervent.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Bradford white are very good for warrantee issues. AO Smith wouldn't ever warrantee anything. Bradford white spent probably 15,000 for 10 guys from out area to go tour the plant in Michigan. It was really something to see.


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