# Does anyone recognize this valve stem



## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

Does anyone recognize this valve stem. It is out of a three piece tub/shower. Customer says the home was built in the 50s or 60s. It doesn't seem that the shower was updated. I tried to pull the diverter, but it will not budge. I want to have all the parts with me when I go back so if I strip or break any parts I can replace them at the time of service.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

scottrussell01 said:


> Does anyone recognize this valve stem. It is out of a three piece tub/shower. Customer says the home was built in the 50s or 60s. It doesn't seem that the shower was updated. I tried to pull the diverter, but it will not budge. I want to have all the parts with me when I go back so if I strip or break any parts I can replace them at the time of service.


 Are you a licenced plumber or a handy hack with a tape measure??


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

"so if I strip or break any parts" my vote handy hack!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

"three piece tub/shower"? I don't think I have ever heard that term before.

PZ is a site for those already in the plumbing trade. You are welcome to view the site and use the information available to you. Please refrain from posting until you have established that you are active in the trade.

Thanks.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

In regards to strip or break, I don't like to leave thinks when they don't function properly. I was trying to loosen the bonnet but on the diverter stem with a 14 inch crescent wrench and it started rounding off the but so I stopped. Been in the trade for 15 years on the new construction side, get into service once in a while. Three piece tub/shower valve is what a hot, cold, and diverter valve is referred as in my area. Thanks for not helping. I now see why service plumbers are looked at as cocky jerks in my area.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

scottrussell01 said:


> Thanks for not helping. I now see why service plumbers are looked at as cocky jerks in my area.


Us cocky jerks make good money and are a very important part of this trade. 

Oh by the way, name calling isn't taken lightly here. We may be cocky jerks but we are respectful cocky jerks


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

Its funny that everyone is making comments without helping with the valve stem. All I am saying is that just because I called something different than what someone may call it, doesn't, mean I am not a plumber. Name calling? Well, I wouldn't have said what I said if I was told to take my question to a homeowner DIY site. I felt I was insulted first. But, hey everyone thanks for the help.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Are you a licenced plumber or a handy hack with a tape measure??


I work for a licensed company that doesn't give a crap about their customers. All they want to do is sell a poor old lady a new valve, she can't afford it. I replaced the seat washers in the hot and cold stems but I want to replace the stems too. Supply houses in the area can't place the stems, so I reached out to here, but everyone here is the same way. when we don't know something we insult people. No wonder this country is to to crap.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I don't recognize it but if I gad to guess I would say Crane. It looks similar to their stems.


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

Got a pic of the Handel ? Possible older kohler


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

scottrussell01 said:


> Its funny that everyone is making comments without helping with the valve stem. All I am saying is that just because I called something different than what someone may call it, doesn't, mean I am not a plumber. Name calling? Well, I wouldn't have said what I said if I was told to take my question to a homeowner DIY site. I felt I was insulted first. But, hey everyone thanks for the help.


Let's clear this up. What do you consider a 3 piece tub/shower? 

Are you talking about a break down tub unit?
A break down shower unit?
Or a 3 handle tub and shower valve?


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

MTDUNN said:


> Let's clear this up. What do you consider a 3 piece tub/shower?
> 
> Are you talking about a break down tub unit?
> A break down shower unit?
> Or a 3 handle tub and shower valve?


I think he's talking about 3 handle tub and shower.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

scottrussell01 said:


> I work for a licensed company that doesn't give a crap about their customers. All they want to do is sell a poor old lady a new valve, she can't afford it. I replaced the seat washers in the hot and cold stems but I want to replace the stems too. Supply houses in the area can't place the stems, so I reached out to here, but everyone here is the same way. when we don't know something we insult people. No wonder this country is to to crap.


 I get cocky to anyone using a 16" wrench on faucet bonnet nut...


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

scottrussell01 said:


> In regards to strip or break, I don't like to leave thinks when they don't function properly. I was trying to loosen the bonnet but on the diverter stem with a 14 inch crescent wrench and it started rounding off the but so I stopped. Been in the trade for 15 years on the new construction side, get into service once in a while. Three piece tub/shower valve is what a hot, cold, and diverter valve is referred as in my area. Thanks for not helping. I now see why service plumbers are looked at as cocky jerks in my area.


I was a cocky jerk long before I started working in the service side, it just comes natural. I think maybe your company is right, just because you think can fix something does not nessasarly mean you should. 

If you charge for all your time trying to chase down replacement parts that may not even exsist, is the little old lady really better off?

There are several companies that make a cheap 3-handle shower valve that are based on the old Deltas and use the the same cartridges. I can get them for about 40 dollars, which is probably atleast 1/2 maybe 1/3rd the cost of those replacement stems you are looking for. 

Since you are new to service, maybe your company cares about more than just putting in a new shower valve. It could be possible that they are looking out for the customers best interest long term.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Call me a cock jerk all you want. But us service guys can do new construction as easy as service. But when you throw a new construction guy in service you get a deer in the headlights look when they need to fix something. So yes us service guys are a little cocky when it comes to our piece of the pie. There is a app to look up stems..you have to look it up though.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

Let me be the first to apologize for name calling. Sorry.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> Let's clear this up. What do you consider a 3 piece tub/shower?
> 
> Are you talking about a break down tub unit?
> A break down shower unit?
> Or a 3 handle tub and shower valve?


This is a three handle valve. Tub & Shower valve.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

victoryplbaz said:


> Call me a cock jerk all you want. But us service guys can do new construction as easy as service. But when you throw a new construction guy in service you get a deer in the headlights look when they need to fix something. So yes us service guys are a little cocky when it comes to our piece of the pie. There is a app to look up stems..you have to look it up though.



Sorry for calling you a Jerk. Your comment about service to new, is what I used to say but in reverse. My problem is I am very familiar with commercial and institutional plumbing, but when I got into residential I got lost, so I am here looking for help. I do not know of the app to look up stems, and the plumbing supply houses around here do not have good reference books. Do you happen to know the name of the app?


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

PlungerJockey said:


> I was a cocky jerk long before I started working in the service side, it just comes natural. I think maybe your company is right, just because you think can fix something does not nessasarly mean you should.
> 
> If you charge for all your time trying to chase down replacement parts that may not even exsist, is the little old lady really better off?
> 
> ...


I am not charging time for my research. Donating it. The sweet lady is happy with what I have done, but she doesn't want to cut anything open. I am looking to try and find the parts, purchase them and replace them free of charge. I have already gotten my companies approval to do this. This lady has already been charged $145 for just new washers, she doesn't deserve to pay anymore.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/new-app-service-plumbers-27188/

I posted the info about the app a couple weeks ago. I did not see your stem in there, but it does look similar to some of the Crane stems and one of the Kohlers.

Click the link and it will take you to the thread. The app is free and if you are going to be doing much service I strongly advise using it.

It also has a feature where you can take a picture and send it to the maker and they will identify the stem. I don't know how well that feature works, I have not needed it, but it may be worth a shot


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> I get cocky to anyone using a 16" wrench on faucet bonnet nut...


Tried using my tub & shower sockets, but no luck. I was hoping the crescent wrench would offer more leverage. The wrench was not the first choice.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

PlungerJockey said:


> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/new-app-service-plumbers-27188/
> 
> I posted the info about the app a couple weeks ago. I did not see your stem in there, but it does look similar to some of the Crane stems and one of the Kohlers.
> 
> ...


Thank you, I will look into it.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

PlungerJockey said:


> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/new-app-service-plumbers-27188/
> 
> I posted the info about the app a couple weeks ago. I did not see your stem in there, but it does look similar to some of the Crane stems and one of the Kohlers.
> 
> ...


Must be a iphone only app. Couldn't find it in the android app store. Thank you tho.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

Read all of the thread. Someone found a way to use it with Android platforms.

You have to download it directly from the site, or run it from the site.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

plumberpro said:


> Got a pic of the Handel ? Possible older kohler



I do not have a picture of the handles the hot and cold are what I call X handles and the diverter is just a 3" blade handle. The trim escutcheons are octagonal.

The part that was strange to me, now remember I am pretty new to residential service, there were just bonnets holding the stems in. I am use to having more to the stem like on the Price Pfisters. On this one all that was visible was the packing nut. When I took that off the stem spun out.

Thank you for your help.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

scottrussell01 said:


> In regards to strip or break, I don't like to leave thinks when they don't function properly. I was trying to loosen the bonnet but on the diverter stem with a 14 inch crescent wrench and it started rounding off the but so I stopped. Been in the trade for 15 years on the new construction side, get into service once in a while. Three piece tub/shower valve is what a hot, cold, and diverter valve is referred as in my area. Thanks for not helping. I now see why service plumbers are looked at as cocky jerks in my area.


Sorry for calling Service Plumbers Cocky Jerks, but I do not like being called a hack or a handyman, so I got defensive.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

scottrussell01 said:


> Sorry for calling Service Plumbers Cocky Jerks, but I do not like being called a hack or a handyman, so I got defensive.


No plm... just mosey over to the intro section and u'll be treated different and better...


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> Us cocky jerks make good money and are a very important part of this trade.
> 
> Oh by the way, name calling isn't taken lightly here. We may be cocky jerks but we are respectful cocky jerks



Wish I could make good money. I went from making $32 an hour is new commercial & institutional plumbing to $16 an hour in residential service. To me this sucks because my employer makes $125 an hour for me, and I supply my own tools and truck.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

PlungerJockey said:


> Read all of the thread. Someone found a way to use it with Android platforms.
> 
> You have to download it directly from the site, or run it from the site.


Okay thank you.


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

scottrussell01 said:


> Okay thank you.


I think I might have found the stem thank you. I think it is an American Standard Tract Line. Thank you very much.


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## brandon2013 (Oct 17, 2013)

scottrussell01 said:


> I am not charging time for my research. Donating it. The sweet lady is happy with what I have done, but she doesn't want to cut anything open. I am looking to try and find the parts, purchase them and replace them free of charge. I have already gotten my companies approval to do this. This lady has already been charged $145 for just new washers, she doesn't deserve to pay anymore.


donating your time sorry but that doesn't pay the bills funny thing is that old lady probably has more money then you and soon as you leave she going to laugh and call you a sucker


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

scottrussell01 said:


> I am not charging time for my research. Donating it. The sweet lady is happy with what I have done, but she doesn't want to cut anything open. I am looking to try and find the parts, purchase them and replace them free of charge. I have already gotten my companies approval to do this. This lady has already been charged $145 for just new washers, she doesn't deserve to pay anymore.





scottrussell01 said:


> Wish I could make good money. I went from making $32 an hour is new commercial & institutional plumbing to $16 an hour in residential service. To me this sucks because my employer makes $125 an hour for me, and I supply my own tools and truck.


You want help? Okay, just remember what you want and what you need are not always the same thing. Although in this case I agree. You definitely need help, just not with the stem. You are so far off base on this I am not sure where to start. :blink:

How about with this...who gives a ratz hiney about her not wanting to cut anything out? That is not your problem. Maybe you should go back to construction work until you get a better understanding of what providing quality service really means.

Second...if you really think she paid $145 for washers, you are not paying attention. Everything that lead up to you being there was free, right?

And third...your employer makes $125hr off you? Ha, that's a real laugh. You don't have a clue what your employer is making. I can tell you this...at $125hr it ain't much. What is his budget? What is his COGS percentage? What is his overhead expense percentage? How much debt is he servicing on the balance sheet? Let me guess, the answer to all four of those questions is "I don't know", right?

All the while you act like you are on some kind of white horse by repairing an obsolete fixture for free so MeeMaw can get scalded and go to the hospital. That's just great.

Maybe if you didn't have your priorities so fouled up, your employer could afford to pay you more than $16hr.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Geeee with the octagonal escutcheons I was going to guess it was an American Standard Renu and you left the barrel inside the mixer...

If it is you'll want to replace the barrels as that would be the seat portion of the valve...

They rebuild nicely and are a very rebuild-able valve...

Complete kit...
http://www.lockeplumbing.com/detail.asp?c=Faucet%20Parts%20A%20through%20B&s=American%20Standard&s2=Two%20And%20Three%20Handle%20&sku=AME-B172KIT&r1=WHE-USS25C&r2=GRU-595916&r3=FEI-NL9-LED

Barrels only
http://www.lockeplumbing.com/detail.asp?c=Faucet%20Parts%20A%20through%20B&s=American%20Standard&s2=Two%20And%20Three%20Handle%20&sku=AME-20336-27-2&r1=WHE-USS25C&r2=&r3=

About $640 would cover a complete refurb with new handles escutcheons and everything like new... Good for another 30 years...


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> You want help? Okay, just remember what you want and what you need are not always the same thing. Although in this case I agree. You definitely need help, just not with the stem. You are so far off base on this I am not sure where to start. :blink: How about with this...who gives a ratz hiney about her not wanting to cut anything out? That is not your problem. Maybe you should go back to construction work until you get a better understanding of what providing quality service really means. Second...if you really think she paid $145 for washers, you are not paying attention. Everything that lead up to you being there was free, right? And third...your employer makes $125hr off you? Ha, that's a real laugh. You don't have a clue what your employer is making. I can tell you this...at $125hr it ain't much. What is his budget? What is his COGS percentage? What is his overhead expense percentage? How much debt is he servicing on the balance sheet? Let me guess, the answer to all four of those questions is "I don't know", right? All the while you act like you are on some kind of white horse by repairing an obsolete fixture for free so MeeMaw can get scalded and go to the hospital. That's just great. Maybe if you didn't have your priorities so fouled up, your employer could afford to pay you more than $16hr.


Amen! I wish more employees would take the time to understand what it costs to have them on the payroll. Show some interest and they can be motivated. A motivated employee with an understanding of business costs is an employee that will make me and him/her more $$


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## scottrussell01 (Nov 2, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> You want help? Okay, just remember what you want and what you need are not always the same thing. Although in this case I agree. You definitely need help, just not with the stem. You are so far off base on this I am not sure where to start. :blink:
> 
> How about with this...who gives a ratz hiney about her not wanting to cut anything out? That is not your problem. Maybe you should go back to construction work until you get a better understanding of what providing quality service really means.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comments. If you only knew the truth about me. Anyways, I didn't find what I need here, got a lot of good help and a lot of attitude. I will go with the consensus and leave.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Wow.... Just a word of advice and I'm not trying to disrespect or degrade but maybe you should listen to what some of these people are saying. Service is an animal all it's own and biz is spot on. I can understand why you feel the way you do but you have to understand WHY that happened. As professionals people take advantage of our knowledge and we try to weed these people out. You have to have a thick skin around here, I got flamed my first thread too, asking what some thought was a silly question for a licensed plumber to be asking, I got questioned and I got offended, check it out if you want. Guess what? I stuck around, swallowed my ego and the knowledge I have gained in a short period of time is incredibly valuable to me. Not everyone is cut out for service, you have to understand the big picture, if you look beneath the surface of being defensive you might see these guys are trying to help you, albeit in a tough love sort of way. Anyway I believe you might learn a lot if you stick around, just saying you may have to drop the ego for a while until we know you're one of us....


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

love2surf927 said:


> Wow.... Just a word of advice and I'm not trying to disrespect or degrade but maybe you should listen to what some of these people are saying. Service is an animal all it's own and biz is spot on. I can understand why you feel the way you do but you have to understand WHY that happened. As professionals people take advantage of our knowledge and we try to weed these people out. You have to have a thick skin around here, I got flamed my first thread too, asking what some thought was a silly question for a licensed plumber to be asking, I got questioned and I got offended, check it out if you want. Guess what? I stuck around, swallowed my ego and the knowledge I have gained in a short period of time is incredibly valuable to me. Not everyone is cut out for service, you have to understand the big picture, if you look beneath the surface of being defensive you might see these guys are trying to help you, albeit in a tough love sort of way. Anyway I believe you might learn a lot if you stick around, just saying you may have to drop the ego for a while until we know you're one of us....


Just like me. I got flamed for having too good of an intro lol


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

MTDUNN said:


> Just like me. I got flamed for having too good of an intro lol


Just read the entire thread again!! That is a detailed intro but I like the details I've always been interested in other people's way of doing things, by the way IMO you hardly got "flamed."


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

scottrussell01 said:


> Thanks for your comments. If you only knew the truth about me. Anyways, I didn't find what I need here, got a lot of good help and a lot of attitude. I will go with the consensus and leave.


Biz could of said it a nicer way, but EVERYTHING he said was right. Your boss is more than likely not pocketing/profiting the lions share off of the hourly rate he is charging for you. Your pay seems a little low, but I must ask why? Why are you working for $16 a hour? Where are you located? Do you have a Journeyman License? Your customers desires doesn't stop time. I have had customers who don't desire to pay for a new water main, or to pay me a hourly rate to dig and attempt to find a descent section to connect to with no guarantee of finding anything useful, but their desire doesn't change the fact that a underground galvanized water main should have been replaced before I was born. Do you know the difference between a beautiful 400 year old mansion & a ready to be condemned 1950s house? Proper maintenance. Nothing last forever, and not every valve repairs well. That might be why your "evil" boss doesn't want to repair it, and wants to replace it. He doesn't want to deal with three separate warranty calls on that one valve. If you can pocket your pride and follow the rules you will find this forum VERY useful. You will also probably find that some of the people your butting heads with at first will be some of your favorite members down the road. Some of the heat you got is because you didn't post a intro first. Thats where the following the rules thing comes in handy.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Biz could of said it a nicer way...


Agreed. Sometimes I get a tad bit direct in the late hours after spending all day being diplomatic. :wallbash:


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## lockeplumbing (Sep 25, 2013)

Can you email mor pictures?

[email protected]

Micah Robinson
Locke Plumbing
lockeplumbing.com 865-525-9318


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Agreed. Sometimes I get a tad bit direct in the late hours after spending all day being diplomatic. :wallbash:


I know. I'm with ya. If he caught me on a day like today, I would of made your post look like Mighty Ducks pep talk.


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