# Electronic ignition conversion



## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

This would be for my own house. I have a Burnham steam boiler that is standing pilot. The plan is to eventually convert to a hi eff forced hot water boiler but it's not in the cards for this year. Last year my gas bill was well over $500 a month and I would like to try to lower that as much as I can without swapping out the boiler. The best thing I can come up with is converting it to electronic ignition. I've never done this before but have heard of it being done. Just wondering if anyone out there has done it and if so how much of a difference it made. If anyone can recommend a kit I'd appreciate that too.
The specs on the boiler are:
Burnham 407b
538 square feet of steam
129,000 btu output
210,000 btu input
12 burner
¾ in/¾ out of the gas valve
Built in 1983

I realize the boiler is 32 years old but it still runs great.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

You should take advantage of the Ma save early boiler change out. Boilers over 30 years old $3,500 rebates available. As far as converting it I would get the numbers off what ever gas valve you have and check cross reference charts for that brand. Not sure if a new setup would work on the bracket of the burner but I think starting there would be a good start. Keep us posted


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

I would but I live in NH, only work in MA.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

bct p&h said:


> I would but I live in NH, only work in MA.



Are there any programs in NH available through any utilities ?


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> Are there any programs in NH available through any utilities ?


I'm glad you mentioned that. I never heard of any but since you said it I looked it up and there actually are. Rebates look similar to MA. Unfortunately I have a couple problems. They are out of funding for this year so I would have to wait until January, I'm not swapping my boiler in the middle of winter unless it's an emergency. 
I have a single pipe steam system. Easy enough to repipe the first floor, not so much for the second. I'm not going to waste time and money putting in another steam boiler. 
Ideally I'd like to convert the first floor to forced hot water and run a super stor for hot water while leaving futures for the second floor. As I remodel the house convert each second floor room one at a time. My house was built in 1890 so I have next to no insulation and I'm sure I still have some knob and tube wiring hidden in the walls.
Maybe in the spring I can convert the first floor and hot water with the rebates.
I would still like to convert to electronic ignition for this winter. From what I've seen the kits are under $300 and I'm sure I would save more than that over the course of a season. The pilot on my boiler alone looks and sounds like a small torch tip running 24/7.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Stick some solder over it and see if it melts. Lol.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm surprised there aren't more plumbers paying attention to energy saving rebates...

It has been a large part of our business for several years now with a full time salesperson on staff...

While you guys have been whining about selling expensive high efficiency water heaters we've been helping customers get $500 rebates on gas water heaters and $400 on electric water heaters...:yes:

I mentioned it here a few years ago...
One of those Gubermint Money Deals...

And up to $750 rebates on heating stuff with 0% financing...

For Residential... And Programs for businesses as well...
Those are more complex and the bulk of the salesperson's work...


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Redwood, I rarely do work in the state I live in and natural gas is scarce around here. The state I work in, MA, has all kinds of rebates and 0% interest loans and I know about all of them. I'm lucky enough to be one of the few people that live in NH that has natural gas. I even have city water/sewer and trash/recycling pick up, which is also very rare in NH.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm not liking Honeywell right now. I emailed them on Sunday asking about the electronic ignition and they got back to me last night, Tuesday, about this time. Didn't even mention the question I asked. They wanted to know if I was a homeowner or a contractor and if I was a contractor to give them a company name. I did. I just got another email from them asking if I was a licensed HVAC contractor. Are you kidding me? Did they not read my first reply? I politely explained how I already answered their question and that my state doesn't have a HVAC license but my gas license allows me to work on and install gas valves and that is the part I am asking about. I then gave them some advice. 1, read emails better. 2, don't piss off someone that sells and installs their parts on a daily basis especially when that person is asking for information on a part they plan on installing in their own home. Let's see what tomorrows late night email from them says.


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## shlomy81 (Apr 23, 2012)

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-Y8610U4001-Intermittent-Pilot-Control-Conversion-Kit
That's a basic and simple kit used it a lot it's vary good


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

shlomy81 said:


> http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-Y8610U4001-Intermittent-Pilot-Control-Conversion-Kit
> That's a basic and simple kit used it a lot it's vary good


That's pretty much the one I was looking at, I'm just trying to confirm it will work with a steam boiler. Can't find a lot of paper work on it. The only difference between the one I'm looking at and that one is the btu rating and the inlet/outlet sizes.

Edit: just say in the link you posted it has the manuals. I'm just going to buy it and see how it works out.
I'm still going to mess with Honeywell for the "helpful" emails.


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## MootsNYC (Dec 19, 2013)

Use r and c on the transformer for 24v and 24v ground and then an earth ground, and swap out gas valves... Oh and buy a ignition box, and electronic ignition pilot assembly... Simple


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Ordered the Honeywell kit, should have it tomorrow or Monday. I'll post how it goes. 
Finally got an email from Honeywell after I *****ed them out about repeating the same questions. They gave me the model number to the valve I already ordered and said it was universal and I should check with the boiler manufacturer if it would work. Gee, thanks.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

I got the conversation kit a few days ago but haven't had the time to do anything with it. I'm sitting in my basement now going over the wiring before I rip this thing apart tomorrow and it seems simple enough. 
Honeywell sent me an email the other day to fill out a survey on how their customer service was. I told them how I felt and haven't heard a word since.
Here is a picture of why I am getting rid of the standing pilot. Imagine paying for this running 24/7 7 months put of the year, in-laws moved in with us and are elderly so I have to light the boiler early and shut it down later in the year than I would like.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Here is the old valve. I'll post an after shot tomorrow when I put it in


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

So that took all of 20 minutes to install and get back up and running. I need to clean up the wiring a little and get a grommet for the hole I drilled in the jacket for the wiring but it's running. Just watching it now to make sure the safety's still work and it shuts down with pressure and the thermostat. It's not a bad little unit for $230. The control box feels a little cheap but it is only a plastic box with a computer chip in it. I just hope the gas bill will drop a noticeable amount.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Oh, and that wasn't my first choice of where to mount it with the return so close. My pilot assembly is pretty deep into the box and the ignition lead is only 30" long so it was the only place I could put it. I'm going to get some insulation on the piping to try and keep that box cooler.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Finally got around to comparing gas bills between this year and last year. With that conversion we're about 200 therms less. I'm going to keep an eye on it once we get to the really cold weather and see how much of a difference it makes.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

bct p&h said:


> Finally got around to comparing gas bills between this year and last year. With that conversion we're about 200 therms less. I'm going to keep an eye on it once we get to the really cold weather and see how much of a difference it makes.


Mounting the control directly on the inner boiler jacket not recommended. . Best to have air space between the control and jacket, made out of sheet metal bent at each end.. I know and seen many melted control on re ro fitted jobs.. also.. don't replace the steam boiler til you get the 'TLAOSH' book!


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

personally , a waste of money, all you are saving is the gas running the pilot light, if you figure the cost of the electronic unit youll be lucky to break even in a few years...if that..the boiler is probably oversized for the house, you would be better off closing of a tube or 2 and save way more gas and lower the water in the sight glass...my .02...


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Mounting the control directly on the inner boiler jacket not recommended. . Best to have air space between the control and jacket, made out of sheet metal bent at each end.. I know and seen many melted control on re ro fitted jobs.. also.. don't replace the steam boiler til you get the 'TLAOSH' book!


It's mounted on the outer jacket and the other side of where it is mounted is empty cabinet. I was more concerned of the heat coming off the return so I insulated the piping. It doesn't get warmer where it's mounted than anywhere else in the basement now.
The only part of the system that I don't like as far as the piping is concerned is the feed. They piped it directly into the boiler. I like to pipe it into the return so it mixes a little before it hits the block. I disconnected the auto feed and let the boiler completely cool before skimming so it isn't that much of a problem.
No idea what that book is you're talking about. I have a few reasons for wanting to get rid of the steam and put in a modcon boiler. Easier zoning, higher efficient, and I can gain a ton of room in my basement. My ceiling is only 6'4" and I've smacked my head more than once on the main that runs right down the middle of my basement.








ShtRnsdownhill said:


> personally , a waste of money, all you are saving is the gas running the pilot light, if you figure the cost of the electronic unit youll be lucky to break even in a few years...if that..the boiler is probably oversized for the house, you would be better off closing of a tube or 2 and save way more gas and lower the water in the sight glass...my .02...


The conversion was less than $200 if I remember correctly. The pilot was huge, picture running a torch 24/7 or leaving the simmer burner on your stove all day. My gas bill was over $700 a month before the conversion, this past winter it was between high 5 and low 6, it already paid for itself. 
For the amount of insulation in my walls, it's probably undersized. If it gets into the single digits or there is a strong driving wind it has trouble maintaining temp. There was a few days this past winter that was the worst possible scenario and I couldn't get the house above the mid 50s.
If I remember correctly the boiler is 180k btu and my house is a little over 2000 sq'. There is zero insulation in the walls. I'm going to go room to room and rip out the walls, insulate, rewire and replace piping as I go but until then it is what it is.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

bct p&h said:


> It's mounted on the outer jacket and the other side of where it is mounted is empty cabinet. I was more concerned of the heat coming off the return so I insulated the piping. It doesn't get warmer where it's mounted than anywhere else in the basement now.
> The only part of the system that I don't like as far as the piping is concerned is the feed. They piped it directly into the boiler. I like to pipe it into the return so it mixes a little before it hits the block. I disconnected the auto feed and let the boiler completely cool before skimming so it isn't that much of a problem.
> No idea what that book is you're talking about. I have a few reasons for wanting to get rid of the steam and put in a modcon boiler. Easier zoning, higher efficient, and I can gain a ton of room in my basement. My ceiling is only 6'4" and I've smacked my head more than once on the main that runs right down the middle of my basement.
> 
> ...


Be really careful about changing it over to mod conned..I've done many changeovers.. mostly successful. . Never do a mod conned boiler on system required 140 * or above.. mod conned works on systems for 100* or lower to maximize the consending mode.. the book TLAOSH ( The Lost Art Of Steam Heating ) is my steam heating bible along with Greening Steam... as well I recently read, ' What I learned in boiler room'.... (learned a ton and will explains why mod con will not work on many certain jobs)..


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

bct p&h said:


> It's mounted on the outer jacket and the other side of where it is mounted is empty cabinet. I was more concerned of the heat coming off the return so I insulated the piping. It doesn't get warmer where it's mounted than anywhere else in the basement now.
> The only part of the system that I don't like as far as the piping is concerned is the feed. They piped it directly into the boiler. I like to pipe it into the return so it mixes a little before it hits the block. I disconnected the auto feed and let the boiler completely cool before skimming so it isn't that much of a problem.
> No idea what that book is you're talking about. I have a few reasons for wanting to get rid of the steam and put in a modcon boiler. Easier zoning, higher efficient, and I can gain a ton of room in my basement. My ceiling is only 6'4" and I've smacked my head more than once on the main that runs right down the middle of my basement.
> 
> ...


sorry but there aint no way a pilot light is burning $200.00 of gas a month...I have 2 houses with standing pilots on the boilers and the gas bill during the winter on each runs between $225 and $300 that includes gas hot water, gas dryer and gas stove and BBQ...


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Be really careful about changing it over to mod conned..I've done many changeovers.. mostly successful. . Never do a mod conned boiler on system required 140 * or above.. mod conned works on systems for 100* or lower to maximize the consending mode.. the book TLAOSH ( The Lost Art Of Steam Heating ) is my steam heating bible along with Greening Steam... as well I recently read, ' What I learned in boiler room'.... (learned a ton and will explains why mod con will not work on many certain jobs)..


Already plan on doing a heat loss once it comes time to do the swap. I'll add radiators or some cast iron baseboard where and if needed.
I'll have to look into those books. Always looking to learn.







ShtRnsdownhill said:


> sorry but there aint no way a pilot light is burning $200.00 of gas a month...I have 2 houses with standing pilots on the boilers and the gas bill during the winter on each runs between $225 and $300 that includes gas hot water, gas dryer and gas stove and BBQ...


I haven't checked the temp difference between this year and last year, I'm assuming this winter was warmer and or less windy. All I know is my bill has been a lot lower since swapping in the electronic ignition in.

Edit: the pilot wasn't exactly small. Definitely not the bic lighter sized pilots that were in boilers more recently. You could hear this thing running from anywhere in the 1000+ sq' basement.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Pilot


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