# gas trip charge.....



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

when they deliver heaters to me, or other products i notice a 10 dollar gas trip charge fee on the invoice.....

I have decided to charge a 10 dollar gas charge also.... if for no other reason to quite all the free estimates 30 miles away from our shop.. I am now mentioniing that 10 dollar charge to every customer when I first talk to them so their are no hard feelings or suprised looks when 
we hand them the bill...........

how many of you are already doing this or are considering doing it....

have you pissed off your customers or are they willing to pay that 10 bucks ???

opinions please


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

We have a trip charge to offset the down time..one way etc...but the new invoices have a fuel surcharge..if it goes over $4/gal we add $2.00 and calculate up from there ...in small doses they can handle it especially since I will just add it to the bill..I dont need permission.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Nope.


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## timplmbr (Mar 16, 2011)

we charge a fee for coming out and diagnosing, then give the estimate less the fee....


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

You stay out of hot water by not showing that charge to begin with. You're just inviting a firestorm. Bed it into your final bill somehow that's not visible.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

If you are worried about gas prices, you are not charging enough.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

I've charged a fuel charge for some time now. It is a separate item on the invoice.

I was scared to do it that way for the same reasons Dunbar eluded to, but to my surprise, I don't remember anyone ever complaining.

Edit: I did have a major commercial account tell me they wouldn't pay an invoice with a fuel charge. No problemo- theirs get buried in the bill.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> If you are worried about gas prices, you are not charging enough.


Exactamundo!

When the insurance rates go through the roof do you add an Insurance surcharge? What about payroll tax increases? Need a new van? How about a Vehicle Replacement surcharge?

Fuel surcharges are the laziest and most insulting method of covering a regular overhead expense.


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## razor jeff (Feb 23, 2011)

We charge $5 base charge on every call and up from there, we call it truck/shop supplies. Usually go $10 if there's any amount of consumables. Never had anyone even comment about it.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Exactamundo!
> 
> When the insurance rates go through the roof do you add an Insurance surcharge? What about payroll tax increases? Need a new van? How about a Vehicle Replacement surcharge?
> 
> *Fuel surcharges are the laziest and most insulting method of covering a regular overhead expense*.


 Try and pull you panties down sounds like a wedgie....
what do you know???? you are usually more thoughtful....who is insulting who..

now gas prices are on par with a *what if* insurance, vehicle, and payroll tax fantasy...
anybody notice gas prices rise lately? why, it was even on the news..even more than once...and I even heard other businesses explain their prices were going up because of fuel....and you are insulted...and everyone else is lazy.....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

stillaround said:


> ...who is insulting who....


Not directed at any member of the PZ directly. It's just my opinion on surcharges in general. I find it very insulting that my suppliers pull this surcharge crap.

1. The charge never coincides with the actual movement of gas prices.
2. The charge is never relevant to actual fuel used to get to a particular location. Unless of course the charge is based on mileage, which it typically is not.
3. It's just a way of raising a price without raising the price.
4. Gas prices have risen less (percentage wise) than our company's health insurance premiums.
5. Would you be OK with a fuel surcharge on your advertising bill from a magazine? (I was not and I cancelled the ad)
6. Would you be OK with a fuel surcharge at the grocery store? They probably paid one to their supplier.

I prefer to see a price...even if it increased. I prefer that to a list of excuses (surcharges) as to why it increased. We know everything is getting more expensive and we don't need surcharges to justify it.


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Last time prices hit $4 I asked the boss about a fuel charge, he said it wasn't allowed, something like we aren't delivering we providing a service and a "fuel surcharge" could be a legal mess that we'd not go near. Instead we up-ed the miscellaneous material charge.

Plainly saying or charging a fuel fee upfront seems weak to me anyway. It's your job to drive to the customer to perform work. It's not like that leaking pipe can be fixed from your desk.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I went to a seminar on how to increase each service ticket by $10................there is nothing immoral about wanting $10 more a ticket and its good therapy.......fuel surcharge is easy and more up front than misc charge...I'm not afraid of it and I am not insulting any customer with an honest increase that is so easily justified....and I dont consider it even a negotiable issue...so my vibe wont make the dog bark.....


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Just a thought:
'08 oil was @130 something at its peak and gas was $4
'11 oil hit a high of @123 and gas is $4

Something a little off? Remember there has been no inflation (outside food and energy, but that's debatable) mostly deflation. The dollar is weaker, thus it should cost more per barrel if there was a real spike in demand...

Since '08 actual fuel economy has improved. Yes it was a hard winter, whatever, they are two different kinds of fuel. And its spring...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

stillaround said:


> ...there is nothing immoral about wanting $10 more a ticket...


Agreed!



stillaround said:


> ...fuel surcharge is easy and more up front than misc charge...


Agreed!


My objection to surcharges stems for my disdain of itemized invoices. I'm not looking to start a T&M v FR thing, just my 2 cents on my view of the original topic.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Show the increase in your parts, come on you can hide five or ten bucks. I'm just sayin dont show it on the invoice, make your money.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumb nutz said:


> Just a thought:
> '08 oil was @130 something at its peak and gas was $4
> '11 oil hit a high of @123 and gas is $4
> 
> ...


The price per barrel has almost nothing to do with gasoline prices...

This guy has almost everything to do with gasoline prices...


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Agreed, they aren't, though they supposed to be. Remember why the barrel jumped in '08? Very active hurricane season in the gulf.. many refineries were shut down or damaged.
Now? What's causing the increase I price? No natural or man made reason...
IMHO think its more a political stunt of API and its cronies playing a economical game of chicken with Obama, their tax "breaks", and Obama's energy plan that focuses less on "drill baby drill" and more on "we are the greatest, most inventive nation in the world, period"


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

The shower door supplier started adding an "energy surcharge"

Never mind, I'll buy them somewhere else. 

Look, everyone is in the same boat with gasoline. And everyone is not happy about it. Why rub it in a customers face by spelling it out on the invoice. They may not say anything to you, but they are certainley not happy about it. 

Raise your rate to compensate for increased overhead/expenses.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

We have used the fuel surcharge in the past and have not had any complaints. Our customers may complain about the 'thieving oil companies.' Adding the fuel surcharge is only done during fast price hikes . . . and removed when prices settle. When it hits $4.00, we will probably re-implement it.

If you are T & M, raising your hourly can cause hard feelings. Not all customers are paying equally. The 3 hour job paid much more to cover the expense than the one hour call.

For Flat Rate cos., that would require re-printing books. In addition, routine task prices are known by all, change the rate and it is more disruptive than it's worth.

Fuel charge is straight-forward IMO.

I can only imagine your response to adding a fee to process credit card payments.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> I can only imagine your response to adding a fee to process credit card payments.


 
A fee to process a credit card is not allowed in your CC agreement, although you can offer a cash discount.

The problem I have on surcharges per invoice from our vendors is that some of us may order for 2 or 3 jobs which we would want to be invoiced seperately would have the surcharge, but only one delivery.

If your pricing is correct you should be able to absorb some cost increases. What percentage of your overall cost is the increase in fuel prices? 1% or less

We don't use surcharges. The price is the price.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I wouldn't list a surcharge on my invoice, just add $5 to the price of material & nobody complains (well, almost nobody)


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

*fuel sur charges*



Associated Plum said:


> A fee ,<snip>
> 
> I don't agree with individule invoices, but yet the company without raising prices has to recoup fuel costs. This should not be done with button pushing. [The art of applying the same to all]. In these economic times discression is of the utmost. In the case of your billing to the customer look at it this way. Mileage you get per gallon divided into the cost per gallon = your cost per mile. Now how much can you afford on each customer? [Assume 5 miles is in your service visit charge] IE: Diesel at $4.90 divided by 12.7 miles = .39 per mile. After 5 miles you should be entiled to charge fuel. Then as the price goes up of down you can adjust. To put fuel cost into O/H or as a flat sur-charge could be detrimental. After all the customer requiring travel of 8 miles vrs. the travel of 58 miles should be billed different. IMHO! In the above you would bew billing customer [A] fo 3 miles @ .39 $1.17 and Customer * for 53 miles $20.67 A BIG DIFFERENCE! *


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I would like to know of those who are adding the cost of fuel, how much are you spending on fuel? 

How many miles a week are you traveling? 

My service area must be non-typical.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Associated Plum said:
> 
> 
> > A fee ,<snip>
> ...


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Associated Plum said:


> PLUMBER_BILL said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Parr
> ...


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Associated Plum said:
> 
> 
> > A fee ,<snip>
> ...


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Associated Plum said:
> 
> 
> > OK FOR A DISPACH FEE, BUT WHAT IF RUNNNING FOR O.E.M. PARTS IS INVOLVED ? TO AND FROM 50 MILES OUT BIG EXPENSE ... NOT ON MY TAB
> ...


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> Associated Plum said:
> 
> 
> > A fee to process a credit card is not allowed in your CC agreement, although you can offer a cash discount.
> ...


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

PlumbCrazy said:


> > Our County charges an Administrative Fee to process payments made with credit cards, as well as some other large cos. in the area.
> >
> > The way I see it, all prices quoted are based on the cash price and discounted. If you make a telephone payment to some credit card carriers, they charge a fee to do this. I process the payment at the office, and we refer to the charge as a convenience charge. More than 95% of our customers use checks/cash to pay. The reason we do not absorb the cost is because credit cards (especially the reward cards) are used on bigger purchases.
> >
> ...


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> > It's impossible IMO to factor in and anticipate days where absolutely no calls come in. When this happens, I check locally with other local businesses and they report the same eerie silence. We are still navigating rough waters and adjusting as necessary.
> >
> >
> > I would have to check to be certain, but I do know that fuel costs/truck maintenance is one of our highest expenses after payroll. Gas has more than doubled from what it was in 2008. A 100% increase - which does not translate into 1% or less.
> > ...


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> PlumbCrazy said:
> 
> 
> > Did you raise your rates a couple of years ago when, fuel was at these high prices to cover this increase?
> ...


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

PlumbCrazy said:


> I can only imagine your response to adding a fee to process credit card payments.


 
OK, since were on THAT SUBJECT, does anyone add a percentage for cc's?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Txmasterplumber said:


> OK, since were on THAT SUBJECT, does anyone add a percentage for cc's?


Oh no you can't do that...
The credit card companies have rules....

But you can discount for cash.... :laughing:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Oh no you can't do that...
> The credit card companies have rules....
> 
> But you can discount for cash.... :laughing:


The same thing just worded differently. There are instances where you can charge a Convenience Fee though.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I bury 3 to 5 bucks fuel charge in the invoice. No arguements as of yet. Depends on if I add parts run or not, sometimes they say,,,, "Oh while your here". And off I go for something not anticipated. Sorry not for free.
12.5 gpm is hard to swallow these days. Isn't customers fault, nor is it mine, it's just the times. Even at that it helps at best,,,,.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

PlumbCrazy said:


> ...Gas has more than doubled from what it was in 2008. A 100% increase - which does not translate into 1% or less....


Actually, several websites with historical data show 2008 gas prices to have been the highest in history and it peaked .25 per gallon on average higher than this year's high. And current prices have already started to come down a few cents.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> ...As far as fuel goes last year it was 4.23% of sales compared to 4.45% this year during the same time frame....


We are in the same range for the increase but our cost is around 3.4%


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Maybe I have the year wrong. It was right after Katrina hit that prices jumped significantly. I could have sworn I heard on the news that gas was $1.83 just before it.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I do remember that. Can't place the exact time though.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

> Originally Posted by Redwood
> Oh no you can't do that...
> The credit card companies have rules....
> 
> But you can discount for cash.... :laughing:





PlumbCrazy said:


> The same thing just worded differently. There are instances where you can charge a Convenience Fee though.


I'll have Nacho explain that one to you... :laughing:


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

I know everyone is concerned about the cost of fuel, but shouldn't we be more worried about material costs? IMO the cost of fuel is the least of our worries when it seems that we are getting price increases in material daily/monthly.


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Good point.
Back to the pex vs. Cpvc debate!


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Actually, several websites with historical data show 2008 gas prices to have been the highest in history and it peaked .25 per gallon on average higher than this year's high. And current prices have already started to come down a few cents.


Got around to looking it up. Gasoline was $1.83 in Nov. 2008.


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## plumbtastic (Apr 27, 2011)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Got around to looking it up. Gasoline was $1.83 in Nov. 2008.


 But in july 2008 gas was over 4 dollars a gallon.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plumbtastic said:


> But in july 2008 gas was over 4 dollars a gallon.


 It was.

PlumbCrazy needs to dig a little deeper.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> It was.
> 
> PlumbCrazy needs to dig a little deeper.


She is obviously looking at later in the year after the prices collapsed...


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> It was.
> 
> PlumbCrazy needs to dig a little deeper.


The point I was making was that there have been wild swings in gas prices. When they dropped from the high in 2008, the charge was also eliminated.

I didn't remember exactly when it was in 2008. I know not too long ago the price was $1.83 and now it is pushing $4.00. When it hit $2.00 we absorbed it. When it crept into the upper twos, we re-evaluated how we travel. Now it is pushing $4.00. We either need to raise our rates across the board, or ad a fuel surcharge. If it is trending back down, the status quo.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

my guess that a lot of the folks that complain about fuel get less than 10 mpg, way less. i got rid of the GGGUUUSSSLLLEEERRRSSS, 2 trucks back. i have no idea what gas costs. i don't look or shop. i use the station with no lines. mid twenties will do that to you. i love it. breid.................. :rockon:


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## Ironwood2011 (May 6, 2011)

We just lump it in with the overall invoice. They don't even ask questions.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Bug_ger the fuel charge - what about the wages? Fuel is minor by comparison.

I seldom charge extra but I do have a "trip charge" spot on my invoice. If I'm going out 30 miles that's a 60 mile round trip. So why are truck drivers making more a year than I am?

If somebody lives next door, it's not fair to expect them to pay a premium so someone 30 miles away can get a free ride. I'm out an hour of driving time and to me an hour is valuable. 

The difficulty is figuring out what to charge per mile. Is $60 an hour a fair price for a man who bills a couple of hundred per hour when they're "just driving?"


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## PeckPlumbing (Mar 19, 2011)

Associated Plum said:


> I know everyone is concerned about the cost of fuel, but shouldn't we be more worried about material costs? IMO the cost of fuel is the least of our worries when it seems that we are getting price increases in material daily/monthly.



Very true!! Often people forget about this, prices change fast! $3.81 a foot for type L 1" , you better know the cost!!


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## ap plumbing (Nov 9, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> when they deliver heaters to me, or other products i notice a 10 dollar gas trip charge fee on the invoice.....
> 
> I have decided to charge a 10 dollar gas charge also.... if for no other reason to quite all the free estimates 30 miles away from our shop.. I am now mentioniing that 10 dollar charge to every customer when I first talk to them so their are no hard feelings or suprised looks when
> we hand them the bill...........
> ...


 JUST TEN DOLLARS WHERE DOES THAT TAKE YOU AROUND THE BLOCK:laughing:HOPE U DRIVE A 4 CYLINDER TOYOTA CAR /TRUCK:laughing:I DON'T CHARGE BUT IF I HAD TO DRIVE THAT FAR I TRY TO GET A LITTLE EXTRA. BUT I WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS FOR GAS.BUT I LIVE IN CALI I'M PRETTY SURE MOST OF UR CALLS ARE LONG DRIVES.


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## DJenek (May 4, 2011)

We count gas expense as part of overall overhead and don't charge a separate fee.


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## Catlin987987 (Nov 12, 2010)

razor jeff said:


> We charge $5 base charge on every call and up from there, we call it truck/shop supplies. Usually go $10 if there's any amount of consumables. Never had anyone even comment about it.


We do the same.


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