# Pet peeves



## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

After today, I discovered something else I don't like. T & S sink faucets and 10 1/2 inch wide stainless steel cabinets.
I know I am skinny but after today I'm gonna need a chiropractor. Jee minm illie's. If I have a leak on that pos faucet I am gonna dinamite the whole building.:whistling2:
Second thought, maybe I should get paid first


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## 3/4 MIP (Dec 1, 2009)

Mansfield and Sterling toilets. Rebuilt 4 today. Why, why, why do you need 3 bolts to hold a tank on. Do they really rock that much with 2? OBTW, one toilet had a LEAKING plumbers putty ring. It was at our church so i suspect my boss is the one who put it there. IMO, if your using them your are begging for that toilet to leak. This one did'nt get used much and dried out. Just like having powder for a seal.

3/4


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

:laughing:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

3/4 MIP said:


> Mansfield and Sterling toilets. Rebuilt 4 today. Why, why, why do you need 3 bolts to hold a tank on. Do they really rock that much with 2? OBTW, one toilet had a LEAKING plumbers putty ring. It was at our church so i suspect my boss is the one who put it there. IMO, if your using them your are begging for that toilet to leak. This one did'nt get used much and dried out. Just like having powder for a seal.
> 
> 3/4


I've never used putty for a ring, and after reading this I never will!


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Plasticman said:


> After today, I discovered something else I don't like. T & S sink faucets and 10 1/2 inch wide stainless steel cabinets.
> I know I am skinny but after today I'm gonna need a chiropractor. Jee minm illie's. If I have a leak on that pos faucet I am gonna dinamite the whole building.:whistling2:
> Second thought, maybe I should get paid first



Hope those new gas lines hold tonight.:whistling2:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Sales people who do not understand waiting for days on a quote for product is annoying and if it didn't burn bridges I tell them "Go fly a kite." Or something like that. Now on approaching third day for a price on my Drake II for my house.


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

3/4 MIP said:


> Mansfield and Sterling toilets. Rebuilt 4 today. Why, why, why do you need 3 bolts to hold a tank on. Do they really rock that much with 2? OBTW, one toilet had a LEAKING plumbers putty ring. It was at our church so i suspect my boss is the one who put it there. IMO, if your using them your are begging for that toilet to leak. This one did'nt get used much and dried out. Just like having powder for a seal.
> 
> 3/4


 I liked the older style Kohlers with the 3 bolt tanks, no tank shimming needed for them. Taking them apart years later for service; SAWZALL TIME!


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

ProFlo


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

Okay, I got one; don't you just love the kitchen faucet jobs that you get called out on and the customer still has the cabinet packed with moldy cleansers, vases, old mouse traps with mice in them, pot and pans, etc! And somehow you are to neatly remove all crap and not contaminate the rest of their kitchen with the decomposing stuff and while you have to lie on a collapsed cabinet bottom!:furious:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Last week I was at a customers house, he had broke the handle off on the kitchen faucet, & ordered a new handle, { faucet was only 2 yrs old, & could still be used with hand}. The reason he took apart faucet was due to no hot water. Well the valve underneath was bad, and installed so that you could not turn handle, cuz it hit drain pipe.He was cheap & didn't want me to fix or replace kit. faucet.
So I'm laying under cabinet, reaching way back in there, & laying on my left side. This fricken dog comes up behind me, & I hear a little gurgle noise. I thought he swallowed something of mine, like a compression nut or something like that. I put my hand behind me on the floor to pull myself out of cabinet, and this dog had puked right next to me,& not only was it huge spot, but I put my hand right in it, when I was getting out of cabinet. And the water was off. It was so close to me I took my sweat shirt off real quick, cuz I thought I had puke on me. Then the dog walks around other side of sink, & pukes up just as much again. Customer says, oh he must be eating grass again, & lets dog out. They clean up puke, & I clean my hand off, & go back to work. This idiot lets the dog back in, & the dog walks over to his food & starts eating & drinking again. Then this pooch starts walking over by me again, dripping water out of its mouth,all over the floor where I gotta lay, I lost it. I told customer either that dog goes out until I leave, or I'm leaving now.:furious:
I finished & charged him $25 more than I was originally thinking, & got the heck out of there.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Hope those new gas lines hold tonight.:whistling2:


 Well, If not then you just saved me the cost of dynamite.:laughing:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

"Haven't had any complaints"

7 out of the last 9 Watts single handle washing machine valves I've bought have had pin hole leaks in the elbows. I never had problems with them for a decade, so I keep giving them another shot thinking it must be a bad batch. Tried another one the other day and SAME PROBLEM. I sent an e-mail to Watts and no response. So I ask the one of the owners at the plumbing supply and he say's they "haven't had any complaints". Well that's my pet peeve, either I'm the most unlucky plumber out there or he's FOS. Damn I hate manufacturer defects. I'll be buying Symmons WM valves from now on.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> Then this pooch starts walking over by me again, dripping water out of its mouth,all over the floor where I gotta lay, I lost it. I told customer either that dog goes out until I leave, or I'm leaving now.:furious:
> I finished & charged him $25 more than I was originally thinking, & got the heck out of there.


At least he kept his rear legs on the floor ...


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## plumbrsteve (Jan 16, 2010)

Mine is when you enter a low rent 1 ba apt with too many tenants, judging by the clutter have been there for years, and the toilet leaking at the base has never been cleaned.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*misery money*

misery money. i get it it when i think someone is jacking me around. charge enough extra that you will be happy to come again. make it worth your while. quit *****ing charge more. just think about it if you are the only one that will come, you are still the cheapest. lol. breid.....................:rockon:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

This, pet peeves thread is SUPER cool.:whistling2:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Ok I have two pet peeves to spew about.
#1- I back in the driveway, get into the house, & they tell me that they have to have me move, so they can get car out of drive, or garage. Well they knew what time I was coming, get the damn thing out before I get there. Or when the driveway is full, & they act like, oh, you don't wanna haul all your chit from street.
#2- I say ok I have to turn water off, they say, oh wait someones gotta take a shower real quick. Duh, you just now thought of that, that the water was going to be shut off when I replace your main valves at meter,:huh: or I am installing a water heater ect.....


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Friends, relatives @ neighbors acting like their doing you a favor by using

your services, and than wanting a deal


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## Hyper Piper (Nov 29, 2008)

Indie said:


> Sales people who do not understand waiting for days on a quote for product is annoying and if it didn't burn bridges I tell them "Go fly a kite." Or something like that. Now on approaching third day for a price on my Drake II for my house.


What with the booming economy, maybe he was too busy


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

I have another one. Kohler flush valves. I fought with that thing for I don't know how long. Would leak here, then there. RSP had to come try his hand at it. He got it fixed, until 30 minutes after he left. I tighened the dog doodie out of it after he left. Was not leaking when I left. If it starts leaking again then I WILL USE DIANAMITE!!!!!!! I hate kohler.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Don The Plumber said:


> Ok I have two pet peeves to spew about.
> #1- I back in the driveway, get into the house, & they tell me that they have to have me move, so they can get car out of drive, or garage. Well they knew what time I was coming, get the damn thing out before I get there. Or when the driveway is full, & they act like, oh, you don't wanna haul all your chit from street.
> #2- I say ok I have to turn water off, they say, oh wait someones gotta take a shower real quick. Duh, you just now thought of that, that the water was going to be shut off when I replace your main valves at meter,:huh: or I am installing a water heater ect.....


 Don ,,, These are in my top 5 too !!!! 

You know i'm coming ,,,, DO NOT PARK your car in the driveway OR the driveway BLOCKING THE WALKWAY !!!! No choice but to walk through dirt !
WAKE UP !!!


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

wall to wall white carpet from the front door to the mechanical room in the basement at the back of the house. Elderly gentleman, and possibly ladies, that can't hit the toilet and i end up going back 3 times because of the "leaking toilet". Dogs that the h.o. swears will just "lick you to death", yeah maybe lick up the pool of blood after he tears your leg off.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

When you tell the customer that you're turning off the water and they are good with it. So you turn it off and drain it down. You plumb in the new shower valve and just as you are about to solder, water comes out because she forgot and turned another faucet on some where in the house. :furious:


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

When you go fishing on the river bank and the water is too high and you don't get a bite when you know the catfish are there and you wasted all that gasoline getting there instead of being at work. NOT!!!!!!
Sorry RSP. Yea I did go again. :innocent:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

:notworthy:



KCplumber said:


> Friends, relatives @ neighbors acting like their doing you a favor by using
> 
> your services, and than wanting a deal


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

gas pumps that will not print my receipt.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Plumbers who post to much, just to get a higher post count, but don't really say anything.:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Indie said:


> Plumbers who post to much, just to get a higher post count, but don't really say anything.:laughing:


okay you made it into the business lounge now knock it off!:laughing:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> gas pumps that will not print my receipt.


Gas pumps that don't have a credit card machine. Paying inside is so 1980's.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Po dunk gas stations that dont take credit cards. Damn you south GA, its 2010.:furious:


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## Everflow (Feb 1, 2010)

When you use your credit card and they want to see your drivers license.:furious:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

when you use your credit card, and they ask for your DL, but the FIRST name on your DL does not MATCH your credit card. I mean, com on, Randy, Randolph? WTF?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

People who used you once seven years ago, who act like they are you biggest asset when they call you on a Saturday in 2010. 
Then when they call you they want you to fix a wobbly toilet that some other plumber installed and they just won't understand that it's not under warranty and you've never seen the darn thing and then they argue and say," No, I only use you for my plumbing, yet there is a can of bio-clean behind the toilet with another company's sticker on it!


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Oh, yeah, REAL ESTATE AGENTS and PROPERTY MANAGERS who say they "will send you *ALL* their work from now on...", if you give them a discount.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> Oh, yeah, REAL ESTATE AGENTS and PROPERTY MANAGERS who say they "will send you *ALL* their work from now on...", if you give them a discount.


 Or builders, contractors, and homeowners.

I learned that lesson many years ago. The hard way. My reply....

"Why don't we try it this way, you start giving me a bunch of work, and THEN we'll talk about the discount!"


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Everflow said:


> When you use your credit card and they want to see your drivers license.:furious:


I usually commend someone for doing that. :thumbup:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> People who used you once seven years ago, who act like they are you biggest asset when they call you on a Saturday in 2010.
> Then when they call you they want you to fix a wobbly toilet that some other plumber installed and they just won't understand that it's not under warranty and you've never seen the darn thing and then they argue and say," No, I only use you for my plumbing, yet there is a can of bio-clean behind the toilet with another company's sticker on it!


 
I've had this happen a few times."Paul, you put our toilet in a few years back, and now it leaks". The Give away? A brand new bathroom floor. Floor guys/tile guys should not set toilets.


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## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

Miguel said:


> ProFlo


our storekeeper at this shop will buy it cuz its the cheapest he could find. for the most part I have to twist his arm to buy something decent...


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Customers that ask you a question but dont like the answer,so they argue. I'm meetng more and more EDUCATED IDIOTS.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Customers that ask you a question but dont like the answer,so they argue. I'm meeting more and more EDUCATED IDIOTS.


Hahahahahaha :laughing: They must be British. :laughing: I have a British friend that loves nothing more than to call me and ask questions and then when I answer, he argues. He's wrong, so I just say, "If you already know, then why did you ask???"


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## Bonafide (Feb 24, 2010)

Customers who watch over your shoulder the whole time your working and talk about how handy they are but just didnt have the time.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Miguel said:


> ProFlo



bloody Wolseley... lol. I know your pain. Have you ever installed their 4" center drop in lavs? I am afraid of putting them down. The sinks are soo thin, I am afraid of it shattering.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Customers that ask you a question but dont like the answer,so they argue. I'm meetng more and more EDUCATED IDIOTS.


Did that last week with a fellow. He is a know it all, efficiency expert, pencil pusher type. When I told him what I was going to do, he told me that what I said "couldn't be the problem" then the guy tells me "I usually do my own plumbing, but I've been too busy". 

Then he sees me a week later and wants to pick my brain about his 1992 Kohler shower valve.:laughing: I said, just take it apart and go to home depot, because after all, I don't know what I am talking about


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

People that have a clogged main and whenever they run water bubbles are coming up in the toilet...

For some reason they think I should go up on their roof and snake the clogged vent...


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

markb said:


> bloody Wolseley... lol. I know your pain. Have you ever installed their 4" center drop in lavs? I am afraid of putting them down. The sinks are soo thin, I am afraid of it shattering.


Don't get me started on that  proflo!!!
Yes I did! PO wouldn't seal and the two sets of proflo faucets finally had to be replaced with a Pfister!!! (First set leaked on the cold side past the seat - x-threaded or something. The "free replacement" set wouldn't seal at the aerator and was pissing water everywhere when you ran it).
Nothing like looking like a "real pro" installing a simple drop in lav. Never before have I had to apologise for my work. :furious:

Even the threaded brass fittings! I'm sure they're all tapped with running threads.

The supply tubes! GAAAAHHH!!!

CLoset bolts!!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Another one of my Pet Peeves!
When the customer tells me, "but the guy at Home Depot said".:furious:

Whenever they say that, I say to the customer, well if he has a Master Plumbers License in his back pocket, then I will listen.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> Another one of my Pet Peeves!
> When the customer tells me, "but the guy at Home Depot said".:furious:
> 
> Whenever they say that, I say to the customer, well if he has a Master Plumbers License in his back pocket, then I will listen.


Becareful...we have an old master plumber working at Lowes here but I'm not sure if he still has a valid license. If he does and is giving plumbing advice he is breaking state law. Licensed plumbers here are not allowed to instruct people who do not have the proper license to do the work if the scope of the work should include a permit from the building dept.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

when i get carded buying spray paint for the exterior gas lines. For christ sake i'm wearing a company shirt and hat and covered in pipe dope and paying with the company credit card, heck yes i'm on my way out to write my name a bridge with flat grey enamel!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

. Licensed plumbers here are not allowed to instruct people who do not have the proper license to do the work if the scope of the work should include a permit from the building dept.[/quote]
I installed a sump pump, & large crock sump, in my brother-in laws back yard. Basically the backyard would flood, so when he put in a new driveway, we put a 3" drain under the drive, for sump discharge, and had it dump into street at curb. Plbg inpector came by & said I need a permit, because I am tieing into the storm sewer in street, indirectly. When I tried to tell him I didn't think I needed a permit to divert backyard ground water to street, he proceeded to scold me somewhat, & said " unless you are changing a faucet washer, or removing a toilet and resetting same toilet, due to a stoppage, you do not need a permit, everything else requires a permit".
So my point is, probobly any advice that licensed plumbers would give, at Lowes or anywhere else, would be illegal. Not enforceable, but illegal, as you stated.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I hate it when the customer tries to fix a leaking Gerber tub faucet and they break the end of the stem off in the handle so they take the handle to Lowes and the Lowes guy gives them a Price Pfister stem kit and a tub socket and the homeowner actually puts the wrong stem in the valve. When it leaks they re do it with a ton of teflon tape, when is still leaks, they call you and don't believe it when you tell them that they screwed it up and now it has to be replaced because they put the wrong stems in.:whistling2:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I hate those "fit all" handles that use the three allen screws that dig into the stem until they cut the splines off the end.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

How about when customers tell you "it only needs a ten cent washer.." and it's a washer less faucet. I like to ask, "What's a washer?" and then "oooh, yeah, haven't seen those in a long time.":no:


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## robthaplumber (Jan 27, 2010)

Pesimistic People


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> I hate it when the customer tries to fix a leaking Gerber tub faucet and they break the end of the stem off in the handle so they take the handle to Lowes and the Lowes guy gives them a Price Pfister stem kit and a tub socket and the homeowner actually puts the wrong stem in the valve. When it leaks they re do it with a ton of teflon tape, when is still leaks, they call you and don't believe it when you tell them that they screwed it up and now it has to be replaced because they put the wrong stems in.:whistling2:


 Don't they know they need to use a Gerber to Price Pfister adapter.:laughing:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> I hate those "fit all" handles that use the three allen screws that dig into the stem until they cut the splines off the end.


 I love those handles. Here's why,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
It should be an easy new faucet sale, when you see those.
I hate fixing those 3 handle, Gerber, PF, Sayco, and any other 3 handle tub & shower faucet, cuz I think they are all a POS.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> I love those handles. Here's why,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> It should be an easy new faucet sale, when you see those.
> I hate fixing those 3 handle, Gerber, PF, Sayco, and any other 3 handle tub & shower faucet, cuz I think they are all a POS.


 And why do you think they are POS? And why single out the 3 valve? IMO the 3 valve is better than the 2 valve.


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## niteowl (Mar 2, 2010)

how about when you finish doing a yard cleanout stoppage, put your tools away and get paid, leave and get in the van, get down the street and say to yourself-what is that stench? and you look down and see a hershey bar stuck to the side of your boot.


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

Customer calls tells ,you job will only ,take 10 minutes then wants a free phone estimate


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

retired rooter said:


> Customer calls tells ,you job will only ,take 10 minutes then wants a free phone estimate


My response- "10 minutes is super awesome, considering we have a 1 hr minimum!!"


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> And why do you think they are POS? And why single out the 3 valve? IMO the 3 valve is better than the 2 valve.


Isn't 2 valve & 3 valve the exact same control, except for the way water is diverted to shower head, {on tub & shower comb.}. So what I meant was that IMO 3 handle tub & shower faucet is POS compared to single handle, not compared to 2 handle. I was also referring to the ones that were popular around here as far back as the 1960's but alot were installed in 70's & 80's too.. I seldom see a 2 handle tub & shower faucet, which is, as I said, same POS hot & cold volume controls.
So here are my reasons 3 handle, & 2 handle shower, & tub & shower, faucets are POS.
1-Usually the 3 & 2 handle valves, were installed before ceramic tile, & cement wall. Each valve then has to have hole cut out all around each stem, to get faucet socket in there, to remove the stem, for repair.
2-Each stem has packing,or O-ring, washer, seat, handle, & escutcheon plate, that need attention. Need I say more?
3-The diverter valve stem has more "different" parts, that need attention, on the 3 handle units.
4-The valves are notorious for dripping longer than normal, after water is turned off, out of bathtub spouts, due to excess water in fixture, shower riser draining out, diverter not working properly, or any combination thereof.
So when this water is actually draining out of the spout, people think the faucet is leaking, & crank down even harder, on the hot & cold stems, therefore they need repair in short amount of time. Customer no happy:no:.
5- the simple fact that the stems have no stop, and can be cranked down to no end, as mentioned, & all that force goes on faucet washer.
6-Now if your talkin new 3 handle or 2 handle vs. new single handle shower faucets, then I think single handle still wins hands down. Temp limit stop, pressure balance, washers seats & O-rings, all in 1 easily replaceable cartridge.
Ok, you get my point by now.
I just want you to answer 1 question honestly, & I'm not tryin to be a smart ash either. If you walk into a job that has a tub & shower, or shower only, faucet leaking, or hot water issue, or handle turns hard, ect... what faucet would you rather see, when you turn the corner, a 3 handle Gerber or Sayco, or a Moen or Delta, 636 series { older non pressure balanced valve}or 1300,single handle? And which one you gonna make more profit on? And"most importantly" which one is the customer gonna be happier with, & alot less likely for a call back?
Even if you got a powers or oddball single handle faucet, its easier IMO, to install a new faucet, when the time comes.:thumbsup:
Be easy on me now:thumbup:
P.S. I know The Master was referring to 3 handle faucet vs. 2 handle , not single handle, I was just in a rant mood.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Don The Plumber said:


> Isn't 2 valve & 3 valve the exact same control, except for the way water is diverted to shower head, {on tub & shower comb.}. So what I meant was that IMO 3 handle tub & shower faucet is POS compared to single handle, not compared to 2 handle. I was also referring to the ones that were popular around here as far back as the 1960's but alot were installed in 70's & 80's too.. I seldom see a 2 handle tub & shower faucet, which is, as I said, same POS hot & cold volume controls.
> So here are my reasons 3 handle, & 2 handle shower, & tub & shower, faucets are POS.
> 1-Usually the 3 & 2 handle valves, were installed before ceramic tile, & cement wall. Each valve then has to have hole cut out all around each stem, to get faucet socket in there, to remove the stem, for repair.
> 2-Each stem has packing,or O-ring, washer, seat, handle, & escutcheon plate, that need attention. Need I say more?
> ...


Actually I rebuild successfully a large number of 2 and 3 handle mixers and do pretty good on the profit as well. The customers like the fact that their old valve can be returned to like new condition and ready to serve them well for many more years without having the valve replaced holes in the walls and a smitty plate installed.

There are a number of older mixers that are very well built and have repair parts readily available making successful rebuilding quick and easy. You just have to learn which ones are popular in your area, have parts readily available, and rebuild well. The ones that do are the ones that you need to rebuild and the ones that don't get replaced. Your knowledge will make you money!:thumbup:

I look at valves like the Am Std Re-Nu, Central Brass and a number of others as nearly 100% successful in being rebuilt to like new condition. In fact I carry truck stock for many of them such as the Central Brass...

When you pull out a kit like this out of your truck and rebuild an old 3-handle mixer you make money...


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> Isn't 2 valve & 3 valve the exact same control, except for the way water is diverted to shower head, {on tub & shower comb.}. So what I meant was that IMO 3 handle tub & shower faucet is POS compared to single handle, not compared to 2 handle. I was also referring to the ones that were popular around here as far back as the 1960's but alot were installed in 70's & 80's too.. I seldom see a 2 handle tub & shower faucet, which is, as I said, same POS hot & cold volume controls.
> So here are my reasons 3 handle, & 2 handle shower, & tub & shower, faucets are POS.
> 1-Usually the 3 & 2 handle valves, were installed before ceramic tile, & cement wall. Each valve then has to have hole cut out all around each stem, to get faucet socket in there, to remove the stem, for repair.
> 2-Each stem has packing,or O-ring, washer, seat, handle, & escutcheon plate, that need attention. Need I say more?
> ...


Two valve faucets can clog with debris at the center causing low flow and a 3 valve will not.
I make more on a 2 or 3 valve faucet for the exact reasons you stated...MORE PARTS TO SELL. 
If you used good faucet washers/bibb screws and seviced the seats and work for half way decent people you shouldn't have a problem with the faucet washers.
Use alittle plumbers grease on everything so you can get it apart next time.
Thank you for your post.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Actually I rebuild successfully a large number of 2 and 3 handle mixers and do pretty good on the profit as well. The customers like the fact that their old valve can be returned to like new condition and ready to serve them well for many more years without having the valve replaced holes in the wals and a smitty plate installed.
> 
> There are a number of older mixers that are very well built and have repair parts readily available making successful rebuilding quick and easy. You just have to learn which ones are popular in your area, have part readily available, and rebuild well. The ones that do are the ones that you need to rebuild and the ones that don't get replaced. Your knowledge will make you money!:thumbup:
> 
> ...


 I"ve had that central Brass valve in my truck, for atleast 6 or 7 yrs. That one is definitely not popular around here. I have a Gerber kit like that too, but, IMO if I walk out of a customers house, after installing a new faucet, even if it has a big goof plate, I've never regretted it. Installing new faucet stems, just doesn't work for me.I feel like a handyman. Always seems to be an issue too,like they want white handles not chrome, or cross handles, or polished brass trim ect... [ thats just my luck I guess]. I also happen to think, that the central brass faucet above, is junk, & not very well made at all.I would use it, in a pinch, but thats about it. I do agree that some of the older3 handle faucets were very well built, but not that one.Family of 4 or 5, would have that thing trashed in no time IMO.
Again, each area warrants different ways of doing things. I would say the most popular 3 handle faucet in my neck of the woods is Gerber, 2 different styles, & nothing after that is popular enough for me to stock.
If I don't have the parts on hand, then lets face it, these faucets are going on 30, 40, 50 or more yrs old & been used several times every single day, year in and year out, its time for new. By the time I chase around for parts, I could have a new faucet installed, & happy customer.:yes:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> Two valve faucets can clog with debris at the center causing low flow and a 3 valve will not.
> I make more on a 2 or 3 valve faucet for the exact reasons you stated...MORE PARTS TO SELL.
> If you used good faucet washers/bibb screws and seviced the seats and work for half way decent people you shouldn't have a problem with the faucet washers.
> Use alittle plumbers grease on everything so you can get it apart next time.
> Thank you for your post.


 I do grease everything too, very important.
My faucet washers do seem like junk though. I have about 5 seat kits in my truck too, but still not the one I need too often {and I have a box van too. I hope Chris Conners don't read this, LOL} I need to invest in some good washer & seat kits, especially due to the economy, even though I will still try to push for new faucets when applicable.
Any recommendations on top quality washer & seat kits, or complete faucet repair kits?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Don The Plumber said:


> I"ve had that central Brass valve in my truck, for atleast 6 or 7 yrs. That one is definitely not popular around here. I have a Gerber kit like that too, but, IMO if I walk out of a customers house, after installing a new faucet, even if it has a big goof plate, I've never regretted it. Installing new faucet stems, just doesn't work for me.I feel like a handyman. Always seems to be an issue too,like they want white handles not chrome, or cross handles, or polished brass trim ect... [ thats just my luck I guess]. I also happen to think, that the central brass faucet above, is junk, & not very well made at all.I would use it, in a pinch, but thats about it. I do agree that some of the older3 handle faucets were very well built, but not that one.Family of 4 or 5, would have that thing trashed in no time IMO.
> Again, each area warrants different ways of doing things. I would say the most popular 3 handle faucet in my neck of the woods is Gerber, 2 different styles, & nothing after that is popular enough for me to stock.
> If I don't have the parts on hand, then lets face it, these faucets are going on 30, 40, 50 or more yrs old & been used several times every single day, year in and year out, its time for new. By the time I chase around for parts, I could have a new faucet installed, & happy customer.:yes:


The Central Brass mixers are very popular around here. I would say I do at least one a week sometimes more.
If the customer wants change by all means give them what they want. As far as them being junk maybe we have some different water or, skill set because rebuilding works for me. Not everybody can fix old stuff and get it right.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I used to have a Gerber 3 handle (popular here) before I remodeled my bathroom and went to a single handle. What a PITA that Gerber was. It was difficult to find the right balance between hot & cold, plus not pressure balanced. Love the Symmons single handle I have now.

It depends on the situation as to wether or not I repair or replace. How accessible is the old valve for replacement? Is is tiled and what kind of shape is it in? Most importantly after giving the HO their options what do they want to do? I've run into some people that have old vintage homes and want as little changed as possible. Others can't wait to get rid of the old valve. Everything is situational.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Don The Plumber said:


> Any recommendations on top quality washer & seat kits, or complete faucet repair kits?


Plumbmaster sell the full Creed Kit... :thumbup:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Redwood said:


> The Central Brass mixers are very popular around here. I would say I do at least one a week sometimes more.
> If the customer wants change by all means give them what they want. As far as them being junk maybe we have some different water or, skill set because rebuilding works for me. Not everybody can fix old stuff and get it right.


 Wow, 1 a week, I guess I would like it too, if there were that many, of 1 style of faucet, in a certain area. They must last a while for you too, to make you a believer in them. 
I'm not saying your wrong, or I can't fix old stuff, but like Paulie said, pressure balance is a good reason to go new too.
Do any of these customers you install these for, complain about bursts of hot & cold water in the shower? Their probobly use to it.
What type of houses are these valves in?
I can't argue with you, about your choice to repair, instead of replace, since you do that many, you know all the angles, & then I can see where it would be quick in & out. $$$$
I just finished a violation job at a small 6 unit apt. bldg. One of the violations was all the bathtub faucets had to be pressure balanced, and 120deg max. hot water temp.Even though all the faucets were existing, they had to be brought up to code. I know this was multi- family unit, but I was wondering. If you install one of those 3 handle kits, I think that is considered a repair right? Or could they consider that a new faucet, & make them have to be pressure balanced?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> 4-The valves are notorious for dripping longer than normal, after water is turned off, out of bathtub spouts, due to excess water in fixture, shower riser draining out, diverter not working properly, or any combination thereof.
> So when this water is actually draining out of the spout, people think the faucet is leaking, & crank down even harder, on the hot & cold stems, therefore they need repair in short amount of time. Customer no happy:no:.


I give all my customers a "lesson" on compression faucets and how NOT to keep tightening the stem after the water is off. I always show them that by opening the diverter that most of the water comes out and then it will only drip a few seconds after this water is released.

Of all of the old compression type, I like PP the most as they are the quickest three handle rebuild, genuine parts are available and the seats come out the easiest. My least favorite is Union Brass because the old diverters were just "brass to brass" contact and the diverter will probably leak, but I always qualify this to my customers *BEFORE*, I rebuild it.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> I give all my customers a "lesson" on compression faucets and how NOT to keep tightening the stem after the water is off. I always show them that by opening the diverter that most of the water comes out and then it will only drip a few seconds after this water is released.
> Yes, but are the teenage boys and girls in this house listening?:wallbash:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Don The Plumber said:


> Wow, 1 a week, I guess I would like it too, if there were that many, of 1 style of faucet, in a certain area. They must last a while for you too, to make you a believer in them.
> I'm not saying your wrong, or I can't fix old stuff, but like Paulie said, pressure balance is a good reason to go new too.
> Do any of these customers you install these for, complain about bursts of hot & cold water in the shower? Their probobly use to it.
> What type of houses are these valves in?
> ...


I see a lot of them in older homes we have a lot of those here.

For the most part I see them in single family homes and the owners are familiar with the characteristics of a non-pressure balanced mixer. It's the little "oh someone is in the shower don't run the water" courtesy that goes a long way.

I do also see them in multifamily homes as well but even then there is usually separate water heaters for each apartment. Landlords like to get out of paying for heat and hot water so they tend to have separate systems for each apartment. Because the valve body is not being replaced it is a repair and doesn't require upgrading.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> I give all my customers a "lesson" on compression faucets and how NOT to keep tightening the stem after the water is off. I always show them that by opening the diverter that most of the water comes out and then it will only drip a few seconds after this water is released.


I do the same and have good results with it.

One of the problems I typically see when I go on a callback for other plumbers in our company is they over tighten the packing so the valve turns hard and the customer can't feel the washer contact the seat.

For some reason they fear a packing leak and think over tightening is the answer. this gets them a lot of callbacks.

I myself lube things up really good and run things loose where they turn easily and the customer can feel the washer contact the seat. Over tightening the packing makes the customer have a tendency to shut it off too hard and tear up the washers in addition to accelerated wear out of the packing and packing leaks.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> then it will only drip a few seconds after this water is released.
> Yes, but are the teenage boys and girls in this house listening?:wallbash:


They won't even turn the light off, I don't even consider them to turn the water off.:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PP verve,sayco citation,Gerber,american standard aquaseal,sterling and the list goes on.....I repair them all. I throw the washer that comes on the new stem away and the bibb screw and install my own. High quality neoprene and monel bibb screws. Sometimes I use a teflon washer also.
Heres a faucet reseating kit. You can re-cut the threads to a different size and install a new seat.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> PP verve,sayco citation,Gerber,american standard aquaseal,sterling and the list goes on.....I repair them all. I throw the washer that comes on the new stem away and the bibb screw and install my own. High quality neoprene and monel bibb screws. Sometimes I use a teflon washer also.
> Heres a faucet reseating kit. You can re-cut the threads to a different size and install a new seat.


 I'm repairing a Sayco 3 handle faucet tomorrow. Putting in whole new stem, handle & seat kit, like Redwood talked about.
Where do you purchase the neoprene washers,& monel screws from?
Always shyed away from reseat kits, but you guys got me thinkin differently now. Does that reseat kit come with a bunch of seats, that fit size of your new cut thread? There is lots of different size seats, how do you know what size to cut into what faucet?How old is that reseat kit?


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## Bonafide (Feb 24, 2010)

home depot wrapping retuned items as if new


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Bonafide said:


> home depot wrapping retuned items as if new


Home Depot ... Period


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> I'm repairing a Sayco 3 handle faucet tomorrow. Putting in whole new stem, handle & seat kit, like Redwood talked about.
> Where do you purchase the neoprene washers,& monel screws from?
> Always shyed away from reseat kits, but you guys got me thinkin differently now. Does that reseat kit come with a bunch of seats, that fit size of your new cut thread? There is lots of different size seats, how do you know what size to cut into what faucet?How old is that reseat kit?


I could have used that today! Set of Cuthberts with no apparent means of getting parts for! So close to the old Emco 3 handle T&S faucets but the cartidges won't thread in and the seats are one of a kind. Closest match was a pre-1978 waltec long seat.
Worked good when I left but told the HO that it was time they thought about something newer.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Bonafide said:


> home depot wrapping retuned items as if new


My wholesale supplier wrapping returned items with missing parts as if new! :furious::furious:


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

futz said:


> My wholesale supplier wrapping returned items with missing parts as if new! :furious::furious:


Hey, you just _know_ that if it's re-wrapped that it's missing parts.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Miguel said:


> Hey, you just _know_ that if it's re-wrapped that it's missing parts.


If I see any tape on the box it gets opened right there on the sales counter, but sometimes the box looks perfect and I'm in a hurry and don't check. 

And sometimes you check and it looks like it's all there, but someone stole one thing out of it that you didn't notice missing until you go to install.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

futz said:


> If I see any tape on the box it gets opened right there on the sales counter, but sometimes the box looks perfect and I'm in a hurry and don't check.
> 
> And sometimes you check and it looks like it's all there, but someone stole one thing out of it that you didn't notice missing until you go to install.


 2 weeks ago I did a job that had a few fixture upgrades. 2 comfort height toilets, with SN shut off kits, countertop laundry sink & faucet, Kitchen faucet, with new disposal, strainers, insta hot, & soap dispenser. Guess what I had to go back to job for?...........the fricken soap dispenser. Everything else went great. Box for soap dis. was open. This was a $130 soap dispenser, which came with 2 different length mounting stems, for thick or thin tops, the thick one was missing, & this one had to go through 1-1/4 granite plus fiberglass undermount sink.And of course it was special order.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> Box for soap dis. was open. This was a $130 soap dispenser, which came with 2 different length mounting stems, for thick or thin tops, the thick one was missing, & this one had to go through 1-1/4 granite plus fiberglass undermount sink.And of course it was special order.


FYI (you probably already know this, but...): Moen has recently had a bad problem with their soap dispensers. I'm sure Moen has probably fixed this by now, but they shipped a huge run of them that would break during shipping. One showroom girl at my supplier said she once opened eight boxes in a row before finding an unbroken one. Stupid Moen put huge, heavy brass (pot metal?) handles on tiny, weak plastic shanks. I imagine if you get a good one and put it in it would probably last maybe a week or so under customer abuse.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Plumbers who don't use the proper terminology for components.

"tank to bowl bolts" for example. (close couple bolts)

and flapper. (Flush valve seal)


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Plumbers who don't use the proper terminology for components.
> 
> "tank to bowl bolts" for example. (close couple bolts)
> 
> and flapper. (Flush valve seal)


 People who think they know what's the right and wrong name to call somthing.:whistling2: Could you please go into detail with you above examples.:laughing:


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## rex (Jun 13, 2008)

people who arent paying attention when the traffic light changes.....you can see there head and after you wait a few seconds you beep they bring there head up really fast flip you off and speed away....


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

"Ma'am, we need to replace the close coupled bolts on your water closet."

"Huh???"

"the tank to bowl bolts on your toilet."

"Ohhhh."

:whistling2:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Trying to explain to a lil old lady that she needs a new ballcock, a new sill cock, and you can plug her sink hole with a cock hole cover doesn't always go over too well:blink:.

I prefer to say toilet fill valve, outside faucet, and faucet hole cover.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Trying to explain to a lil old lady that she needs a new ballcock, a new sill cock, and you can plug her sink hole with a cock hole cover doesn't always go over too well:blink:.
> 
> I prefer to say toilet fill valve, outside faucet, and faucet hole cover.


Telling some beautiful young lady she needs new nipples

I apologize ladies, I couldn't resist


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

The brush in the can of pipe dope never reaches the bottom of the can.:furious:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Trying to explain to a lil old lady that she needs a new ballcock, a new sill cock, and you can plug her sink hole with a cock hole cover doesn't always go over too well:blink:.
> 
> I prefer to say toilet fill valve, outside faucet, and faucet hole cover.


The service manager asked me if I had a cock hole cover on my truck. I said no, I've had a vasectomy. I don't need one anymore. :laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

The industry words are what they are. 

One of the problems in this industry is professionalism. It holds rates and salaries down, and people have an impression that we plumbers are dopes.

You wont find an attorney mincing words, for the sake of not confusing a client, and you wont find a doctor using laymans terms, either.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> The industry words are what they are.
> 
> One of the problems in this industry is professionalism. It holds rates and salaries down, and people have an impression that we plumbers are dopes.
> 
> You wont find an attorney mincing words, for the sake of not confusing a client, and you wont find a doctor using laymans terms, either.


Sure they do because they understand that not everyone went to medical or law school.


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## waldrop (Dec 18, 2009)

rain every week ,wet feet,


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

waldrop said:


> rain every week ,wet feet,


Yeah, you noticed that too?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

house plumber said:


> The service manager asked me if I had a cock hole cover on my truck. I said no, I've had a vasectomy. I don't need one anymore. :laughing:


I had a foreman who asked me for a cock hole cover once, but when he said cock hole, he mumbled it and it sounded like "kaka cova" and I didn't understand him. Then he said it again, and again, I didn't understand him, so I asked him to look at me when he said it. Then he said, DO YOU HAVE A COCK HOLE COVER ON YOUR TRUCK??????

That time, I heard him loud and clear, and so did everybody else.:laughing:


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## waldrop (Dec 18, 2009)

maybe tiger will take the rain with him when he leaves town:yes:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Lets keep it clean.


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

Bonafide said:


> Customers who watch over your shoulder the whole time your working and talk about how handy they are but just didnt have the time.


 I was going thru the tread looking for this too.:laughing: Best one I had sat watching telling me what the next step was and adding that he was aircraft engineer, as if that trumped my humble 20 some odd years. geesh:no:


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

house plumber said:


> The service manager asked me if I had a cock hole cover on my truck. I said no, I've had a vasectomy. I don't need one anymore. :laughing:


 A common problem for the old school plumbers


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

njoy plumbing said:


> I was going thru the tread looking for this too.:laughing: Best one I had sat watching telling me what the next step was and adding that he was aircraft engineer, as if that trumped my humble 20 some odd years. geesh:no:


 I may have siad this before, I had a lady over my shoulder one time, telling me how her husband is a sugeon........ He could have fixed that toilet, but he is sooooooo busy doing surgeries. 

10 minutes, I give her the bill for like 250 (two fiddy). 

"oh my gawd, that much...." on and on.

I told her I was gonna be a surgoen, but then I found out plumbers make more!:yes:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

When there is a sporatic, or less than obvious, plumbing problem that you are trying to diagnose, by asking people living there what is actually happening, & all of them tell you something different.:yes: :no: :yes: :no: :help:


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## M5Plumb (Oct 2, 2008)

Man ya gotta love that. Makes ya wanna question em like Dragnet, one at a time just so you can get a straight answer.



Don The Plumber said:


> When there is a sporatic, or less than obvious, plumbing problem that you are trying to diagnose, by asking people living there what is actually happening, & all of them tell you something different.:yes: :no: :yes: :no: :help:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Another one of my "Pet Peeves" happened today.
Small half bath remodel. They put in a new tile floor, was the main extent of the job. Tile man pulls toilet, & vanity originally, so I don't have to make 2 trips. This was about a week ago. I go there today to set the new toilet, but find out, the customer decided to use the old toilet. So I say to myself, now I gotta rebuild it, but not a big deal. I walk out to the garage, & see this toilet that has been sitting there for a week now, & it is full of urine, & hair, & what ever else:furious: I asked the customer point blank, who is cleaning this toilet, so I can put it in? I got the deer in the headlights look, with no response.
I walked out to my truck, came back in, & customer was talking on phone, & not anything about the toilet issue. I took the toilet outside,disassembled it, cleaned it up, **** & span, rebuilt it, installed it, finished up job, & handed him the bill for $75 more than I quoted, & he paid, & was smart enough not to question me, cuz I was ready

How can you sit there, & look at a toilet in your garage for a week, when it's filthy, know someone has to be handling it, & not even think about washing the damn thing, I don't get it. And from now on, I'm telling them $175 if I gotta be their maid.


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## jc60618 (Jan 24, 2010)

How about when somebody trims out something and leaves pipe dope all over the place.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

jc60618 said:


> How about when somebody trims out something and leaves pipe dope all over the place.


......and i supply them with clean rags to wipe things down, and they still leave a mess :furious:


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## jc60618 (Jan 24, 2010)

Bayside500 said:


> ......and i supply them with clean rags to wipe things down, and they still leave a mess :furious:


Most of these people are journeymen and me being the apprentice have to go and clean after them.


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## PlumbingTheCape (Mar 1, 2010)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Hope those new gas lines hold tonight.:whistling2:


HAHA :laughing:


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## kentdmo (Dec 15, 2008)

plumb4fun said:


> Okay, I got one; don't you just love the kitchen faucet jobs that you get called out on and the customer still has the cabinet packed with moldy cleansers, vases, old mouse traps with mice in them, pot and pans, etc! And somehow you are to neatly remove all crap and not contaminate the rest of their kitchen with the decomposing stuff and while you have to lie on a collapsed cabinet bottom!:furious:


or how about when they have a hole in the side of the disposal and every time they used it it was slinging the garbage all over the cabinet on the inside and they never noticed it because they had to much junk under the sink. Smells Good


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## kentdmo (Dec 15, 2008)

or how about when they clogg there toilet and it's all over the floor and they expect you to clean it up.


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## kentdmo (Dec 15, 2008)

How about HO's that are just fishing for information so they can try and fix it themself


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