# Underground pex to copper recomendations



## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I have to do a pex to copper connection underground, it is outside the house at-least. I am thinking a sharkbite coupling may be the best? What do you recommend. By the way the old copper is very brittle and solder joints removed were very weak, i believe it's type M copper and as much as I wanna replace it there is no budget for it.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

My boss man and I were discussing this very thing today.. Ive seen more leaking cpvc adapters than sharkbites. It's a toss up probably.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

But if it's underground it's prob soft copper which sharkbites would not work.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> But if it's underground it's prob soft copper which sharkbites would not work.


it isnt soft copper


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

If it is outside the home just use a sweat adaptor and crimp the PEX or use Wirsbo if you use that


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

In my opinion, I think shark bite fittings have there place. It's good for say an old PB or PEX line repair in the yard or perhaps a temporary fix or a leak in a crawl space. I don't think it's a bad product. I have however seen one freeze and blow out. So if it might freeze you should protect it.


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

I would go with a sharkbite for sure


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

like Will said sweat an adapter to your favorite brand of pex on there, if you have propress there is a crimp viega to crimp copper adapter.


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## Radium (Dec 25, 2010)

I used to braze copper fittings underground, now I propress. I am not sure if sharkbite is approved for underground.

Sent from my iPad using PlumbingZone


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Radium said:


> I used to braze copper fittings underground, now I propress. I am not sure if sharkbite is approved for underground.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PlumbingZone


Unfortunately sharkbite is. My meter guy does it all the time.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

You can per manufactures instructions use crimp fittings under a slab if you:
1. Cover the rings with arma flex and tape the insulation tight but no tape on the pipe. 
Or
2. Wrap Serran wrap around the rings and tape it tight. No tape on the pipe itself


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Will said:


> If it is outside the home just use a sweat adaptor and crimp the PEX or use Wirsbo if you use that


This ^^^^^^

But ? If it was under slab how would u do it will???


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> This ^^^^^^
> 
> But ? If it was under slab how would u do it will???


I said how. If done this way it would pass inspection


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Why won't a shark work on soft copper ? I know I have used one on copper underground before.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

Plumberman911 said:


> You can per manufactures instructions use crimp fittings under a slab if you:
> 1. Cover the rings with arma flex and tape the insulation tight but no tape on the pipe.
> Or
> 2. Wrap Serran wrap around the rings and tape it tight. No tape on the pipe itself


what do you tape it too then?


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

Will said:


> If it is outside the home just use a sweat adaptor and crimp the PEX or use Wirsbo if you use that


Umm aren't underground connections supposed to be brazed I know under Canadian code it's supposed to be as we'll as UPC from what I have heard( haved read to far in yet). I would look at using a corporation coupling like http://www.fordmeterbox.com/catalog/j/flippingbook/files/jjpeg.pdf they used these here in northern Nevada .


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Greenguy said:


> Umm aren't underground connections supposed to be brazed I know under Canadian code it's supposed to be as we'll as UPC from what I have heard( haved read to far in yet). I would look at using a corporation coupling like http://www.fordmeterbox.com/catalog/j/flippingbook/files/jjpeg.pdf they used these here in northern Nevada .


Under slab are to be brazed if ther must be a connection But in the yard it's what ever...I think...... I braze it if its copper slab or not But I think we wer talking about yard line. In witch case il sweat a pex adapter on. 

Can you braze a pex x copper adapter on. Or will it weaken the brass and make the crimp leak??


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## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

Out of the Code for canada "Blah Blah Blah big words then ... you can have Brazed, compression or flared connections underground but you can't have compression connections under a building"

I'm pretty sure that is directly out of the code ;-)


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

alberteh said:


> Out of the Code for canada "Blah Blah Blah big words then ... you can have Brazed, compression or flared connections underground but you can't have compression connections under a building"
> 
> I'm pretty sure that is directly out of the code ;-)


Something like that, my code books still in storage from moving south.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Greenguy said:


> Umm aren't underground connections supposed to be brazed I know under Canadian code it's supposed to be as we'll as UPC from what I have heard( haved read to far in yet). I would look at using a corporation coupling like http://www.fordmeterbox.com/catalog/j/flippingbook/files/jjpeg.pdf they used these here in northern Nevada .



Only under a slab.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> This ^^^^^^
> 
> But ? If it was under slab how would u do it will???


Under slab I will use Wirsbo, there connections are approved under slab per manufacturer. That is the main rason I use Wirsbo pipe when I'm doing ground/rough ins on new construction or when I'm installing a yard line.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Plumberman911 said:


> You can per manufactures instructions use crimp fittings under a slab if you:
> 1. Cover the rings with arma flex and tape the insulation tight but no tape on the pipe.
> Or
> 2. Wrap Serran wrap around the rings and tape it tight. No tape on the pipe itself


Did it have to be brazed? Personaly I hate to braze old copper, I feel it weakens to pipe, I'd rather solder the old copper, even in my own home. Guess I need to stop using duct tape, I use it all the time on PEX....


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Why no tape touching pipe ???


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## JDGA80 (Dec 9, 2012)

Will said:


> Did it have to be brazed? Personaly I hate to braze old copper, I feel it weakens to pipe, I'd rather solder the old copper, even in my own home. Guess I need to stop using duct tape, I use it all the time on PEX....


I don't think brazing weakens anything. Doing a compressor swap on a R410a system is done all the time with old copper and the pressures that refrigerant gets to is around 400psi. Low pressure water lines shouldn't have a problem. I could be wrong through I'm not an engineer.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Well I appreciate all the advice! I think I am gonna try a hack bite on this one, it is a bad hole on the side of a hill, against the foundation and with yesterdays rain it's even a worse place to braze or solder. This thing is wrong in so many ways, hell it's only 24" deep and 42 is required here. 
I also just had to stub out and connect to the orangeburg sanitary, I was outta options and had to shove a 3" pvc into a oval shaped 4" orangeburg and pack the sides with oakum gently and I will pour some concrete on it before I fill the hole back up. Are fernco's available in smashed orangeburg size:laughing:

I really despise jobs like this where there is no money to do it completely! But with todays economy I am still just happy to be gainfully employed!


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

JDGA80 said:


> I don't think brazing weakens anything. Doing a compressor swap on a R410a system is done all the time with old copper and the pressures that refrigerant gets to is around 400psi. Low pressure water lines shouldn't have a problem. I could be wrong through I'm not an engineer.



The copper pipe on a compressor is not pitted or been attack by corrosion or other stuff like copper that has been buried under a slab for 30 years has. I could be wrong, but I'm going by what I have seen in the field.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> Well I appreciate all the advice! I think I am gonna try a hack bite on this one, it is a bad hole on the side of a hill, against the foundation and with yesterdays rain it's even a worse place to braze or solder. This thing is wrong in so many ways, hell it's only 24" deep and 42 is required here.
> I also just had to stub out and connect to the orangeburg sanitary, I was outta options and had to shove a 3" pvc into a oval shaped 4" orangeburg and pack the sides with oakum gently and I will pour some concrete on it before I fill the hole back up. Are fernco's available in smashed orangeburg size:laughing:
> 
> I really despise jobs like this where there is no money to do it completely! But with todays economy I am still just happy to be gainfully employed!


If your going to use a hack bite it, why not just use a compression union? Put a SS stiffener on the PEX side and tighten up the union....will work a hell of alot better than a hack bite.


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## JDGA80 (Dec 9, 2012)

Will said:


> The copper pipe on a compressor is not pitted or been attack by corrosion or other stuff like copper that has been buried under a slab for 30 years has. I could be wrong, but I'm going by what I have seen in the field.


I hear ya on that. Anytime I get one like that under a slab I really try to run it overhead and redo the tiebacks. I wish his customer had the cash for him to do a new service line and sanitary line. No worries then ya know


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Will said:


> If your going to use a hack bite it, why not just use a compression union? Put a SS stiffener on the PEX side and tighten up the union....will work a hell of alot better than a hack bite.


That may be better but in about a half hour I am gonna get er done. Just called the supply house that is on the way and no stiffeners for pex compression in 1/2". Thankully the water lines only feed the kitchen and if there is problems in the future water will only be lost to kitchen! I also sleeved the 1/2" pex in 3/4 where it is underground below the new bathroom!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

deerslayer said:


> That may be better but in about a half hour I am gonna get er done. Just called the supply house that is on the way and no stiffeners for pex compression in 1/2". Thankully the water lines only feed the kitchen and if there is problems in the future water will only be lost to kitchen! I also sleeved the 1/2" pex in 3/4 where it is underground below the new bathroom!


He's rite the quest compression is better. And needs no stiffener. But I say if you have a plan get it done man. Screw what we say. Getir done get paid and get out if ther. Good luck bro


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

This is the part I'm talk g about. Quest pex and copper will all fit. No stiffener needed and it has a metal ring with theeth that hold it and plastic ferrel that seal it. I put a bit of dope on the ferrel to help it seal good. Just FYI. Let us know how she all goes. I'd pic one of these up just in case u did say u wer tien to old quest ???


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I prefer the shark when the copper is getting thin. I don't wanna compress onto something that's already weakened.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> He's rite the quest compression is better. And needs no stiffener. But I say if you have a plan get it done man. Screw what we say. Getir done get paid and get out if ther. Good luck bro


I was just talking about a regular compression union, not the quest.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

O. Can u put reg compression on pex. And quest pipe ???


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> He's rite the quest compression is better. And needs no stiffener. But I say if you have a plan get it done man. Screw what we say. Getir done get paid and get out if ther. Good luck bro


I'm sorry but I have to call Bulsh on this. Qest fittings SUCK! They will break over time. It's what they are made for. Honestly there is nothing wrong with sharkbites for this application. They are well made for this. I'm in no way suggesting that they take the place of hard piping but for a repair in pex or quest on the yard it's perfect. You just don't like it because it seems like a hack job. It is better than qest fittings.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> This is the part I'm talk g about. Quest pex and copper will all fit. No stiffener needed and it has a metal ring with theeth that hold it and plastic ferrel that seal it. I put a bit of dope on the ferrel to help it seal good. Just FYI. Let us know how she all goes. I'd pic one of these up just in case u did say u wer tien to old quest ???


I think we got 2 threads mixed up! I was connecting new pex to old copper underground, outside the building. It is done now I hate to say it but I hackbited it! The good news is it is a house that I own so atleast I can only biotch at myself if there is problems later! I am gonna do this one in pex just to see how good it holds up over the years?? You,all on the PZ have convinced me that it must be decent stuff cause it seems there is alot of good plumbers on here using it. When ever I get more time and money I will replace the old copper and the rest of the orangeburg sanitary.


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

johntheplumber said:


> I'm sorry but I have to call Bulsh on this. Qest fittings SUCK! They will break over time. It's what they are made for. Honestly there is nothing wrong with sharkbites for this application. They are well made for this. I'm in no way suggesting that they take the place of hard piping but for a repair in pex or quest on the yard it's perfect. You just don't like it because it seems like a hack job. It is better than qest fittings.


Agreed quest fittings suck


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

deerslayer said:


> I think we got 2 threads mixed up! I was connecting new pex to old copper underground, outside the building. It is done now I hate to say it but I hackbited it! The good news is it is a house that I own so atleast I can only biotch at myself if there is problems later! I am gonna do this one in pex just to see how good it holds up over the years?? You,all on the PZ have convinced me that it must be decent stuff cause it seems there is alot of good plumbers on here using it. When ever I get more time and money I will replace the old copper and the rest of the orangeburg sanitary.


Flab you got it done


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

If the quest is old and rotted the shark bit will let go but the quest fit won't. True they are cheap and rott. Mice like to eat on them to. But I've seen sharks slip off old quest. And yeas I installed it correctly


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## kiddplum (Feb 7, 2010)

*underground pex to copper*

what size pex? why not use a ford pack joint by male or female coupling? they may even make one that uses a stainless insert on one side to adapt to the pex they have a similar item for poly pipe


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

kiddplum said:


> what size pex? why not use a ford pack joint by male or female coupling? they may even make one that uses a stainless insert on one side to adapt to the pex they have a similar item for poly pipe


I like the ford fittings myself, but have yet to find inserts made for PEX. I generally use a swedging tool and make my own inserts out of soft 'L' copper.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> I like the ford fittings myself, but have yet to find inserts made for PEX. I generally use a swedging tool and make my own inserts out of soft 'L' copper.


I would like to see how that turns out.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> I would like to see how that turns out.


I don't run into it too often, but I'll take pictures the next time I have to do it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Only time I ever swedge anything is when I'm hooking up commercial coffee makers. If I get into HVAC then for air cond units too. I've done it a few times on those too, helping out a HVAC guy when plumbing was slow.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> If the quest is old and rotted the shark bit will let go but the quest fit won't. True they are cheap and rott. Mice like to eat on them to. But I've seen sharks slip off old quest. And yeas I installed it correctly


Sharkbites with the brown release ring wont work on quest pipe. There is just enough differance its loose. You have to use the ones with the gray pastic release rings for old quest. They also make them with brown on one end and gray on the other end for repairs using pex.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I've seen 3/4 sharks on 1/2 PVC. before. They were dripping but not blowing apart. I have also seen 3/4 sharks on 1/2 galvy holding fine. Scary.


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