# Cost per fixture unit



## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Anyone have a "safe" amount for figuring just the materials, not the labor costs per fixture opening in new construction? 


Not the cheapest, just slightly above cheapest products. 


Ranch home, copper piping. I'll have to count the fixture openings but it's a standard 4 bath ranch with hose bibbs, floor drains. 

Back in the day we used to figure $300 per opening, $100 apiece for floor drains and hose bibbs. 

I've never taken that number and extracted what the materials covered, since it was industry average for most.


I understand that it fluctuates from area to area, that's a given. I just need a guestimate on a per fixture opening so I can give someone an idea for a donation project.


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## Protech

Sure, if you can give me a ballpark figure on what it will cost to fix my vehicle.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

450 per fixture, material and labor. sewer and water connections to the taps, tanks or meters or wells is time and material. Thats for basic builder grade fixtures, nothing fancy.


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## leak1

i could do that job for 449 per fixture!


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## user823

I'll do it for $399.99!
I don't get it, I've never bid a job that way. Every job is different, pipe length etc. I like to be accurate. Ok ok, I'll do it for $359.99, happy now? LOL


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## leak1

ironranger you cutthroth s.o.b.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Okay, given that $450 per fixture number, what part of that is materials? 


The reason I ask is because that church I'm supposed to be doing for goodness of the community is realistic that plumbing supply houses have absolutely no ability right now to donate materials...


and I've been out of new construction too long to make a correct asessement of the costs. I'm openly admitting I'm lacking brain power...call dr. phil before I think Oprah is a better choice. :blink:


The number will be in the thousands, just wanted to know so I'm at least somewhat close so it won't be used against me in the house of god. 


I told them I'd donate all the copper fittings, no copper pipe to this job, nothing else. Few hundred dollars is about all I'm willing to give, and I'd be willing to do the finish with all materials supplied to do so. 

I'm afraid to let anyone know that I'm willing to do the finish because that attitude for the fellows doing the 1st and 2nd rough could really make my job harder than hell if they slop those measurements on drains/water lines. 

I'd rather them think they were doing the finish, and then I come into the equation. I could run the copper....not a problem. Don't want to run plastic because I'm not fast enough. That's a fact and don't want to be around glue/cleaner anymore than I have to.


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## Cal

$ 850 - $ 1,000 is the going rate around here ,,,,but thats for remodeling.

New work has got to be less due to the cut throats 

Cal


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## trick1

Ya know, I've never bid a new home that way. I've always done it the old fashioned way....fitting by fitting, hanger by hanger.

Last 4 bath house I did was a couple years ago for a custom builder and the price was $15,200.00 less fixtures.


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## Phat Cat

Per fixture opening was invented by the builder so he could use it in his estimates and then find some plumber to agree to it. You can always, always find the one plumber who doesn't know any better and will do the job at below cost. Then he will scratch his head wondering how the other plumbers are doing it. In the meantime, he has lost money and cannot figure out the per fixture game.

Builder's grade is a wide range . . .


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Yeah but the thing is, no one is making money on this job. It's all donated time. 

I personally know the framer, and his business is about to go bust. But he's still going to do this job even though the church will sign a document showing a massive tax deduction.


I don't even want the tax deduction. Don't want the video now either. I changed my priorities as fast as my underwear *once every two weeks* and I can't invest as much time as once thought.

I'd post PDF's of this building but plumbing is plumbing. I need to say 7 grand, 9 grand, something that jives closely. That way they know how to spend the donated money and figure out where they need to come up with the rest in donations.


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## Cal

OK ,,,, good point . On BUILDER S**T . 

Remodel is a TOTALLY different beast ,,,,, agreed ??

Cal


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## Plumber Jim

Cab you guess how much pipe you may need? 4 baths in a ranch. are they located on different ends of the house? whats the dimensions of the house? You could get the dimenstions then figure were the bathrooms will be etc. then figure worst case then figure in the fixtures. just call your supplier and get a price on 4 of whatever tun 4 toilets 4 sinks etc. then figure in the water heater hose bibbs etc etc. then see what that comes to per fixture. otherwise i have bid labor and material at 700-1000 per fixture depending on fixtures used etc. shouldn't be too hard.


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## U&I Plumber

We always did it per fixture plus the fixture, anywhere from $350 10 years ago to $575 2 years ago, fixture is a fixture be it a hose bibb or a sauna...


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## user823

I would never do it that way. Sit down with the plans and figure it out. Don't forget, it's a commercial building. You have to figure in your plan review costs, permits etc.


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## Song Dog

Never did it per fixture.

I am SO glad I am service and repair w/ flat rate. I got so board with new homes. 

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

DAmn, I thought we were talking residential, commercial is strickly unit price by me. Every Inch of all thread is accounted for.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Okay someone just lie to me, I don't care. 


I was thinking around $200/fixture unit for materials.


$100/faucet
$200/tub/shower
$100/lav faucet
$100 toilet

4 into $500 would be 1.9...or $200/per fixture opening.


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## Plumber Jim

Roast Duck said:


> Okay someone just lie to me, I don't care.
> 
> 
> I was thinking around $200/fixture unit for materials.
> 
> 
> $100/faucet
> $200/tub/shower
> $100/lav faucet
> $100 toilet
> 
> 4 into $500 would be 1.9...or $200/per fixture opening.


does that take into account the copper pipe and the dwv pipe? plus kitchen and water heater.


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## Plumber Jim

U&I Plumber said:


> We always did it per fixture plus the fixture, anywhere from $350 10 years ago to $575 2 years ago, fixture is a fixture be it a hose bibb or a sauna...


Yea, most times the owner or builder supplies the actual fixture, so i do like $600 plus per fixture depending on the job.


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## Plasticman

cpvc and dwv works out to be around 150.00 per fixture just in material and not counting labor . Don't matter about units here. Just per fixture. Copper, I don't know since its too expensive here. This is residential mind you.
If builder or owner provides fixtures, then 400 per fixture excluding whirlpool tubs or some other fancy smancy fixture because of the extra labor.
If I provide the fixtures, basic builders grade stuff, 800 per fixture which includes material. Does not include sewer, septic, or water service. 
Since you are doing this for a church or whatever, and you are possibly donating your time, my suggestion is to do it for cost plus. 
You seem an honest man. Save all receipts. You will get your money back. God will take care of you.


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## Plumbus

An accurate bid can only be arrived at by first doing an accurate material and labor take off. There are no short cuts. Even when using a software estimating program you have to enter an accurate take off. Otherwise, it's just a WAG or at best a SWAG.


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## Herk

Although I haven't plumbed a house in about ten years, I always used a per-fixture price. Same basic fixtures. Steel tub, shower base, Moen singles on the tub and showers and kitchen sink, two-handle everywhere else. Figure the per fixture price, add per foot for distance between baths, does not include sewer and water mains.

I have no idea what it would be now for the complete price, but I doubt $550 per fixture is enough. The per-fixture price goes up or down with changes in material. Seems to me that plumbers have been giving this away for years.

To do a take-off, draw an isometric of the entire house, figure an average price on what you pay per fittings. How much for a 2" fitting, how much for a 3" fitting, etc. Figure pipe and fittings per foot, price your tubs, showers, valves, etc. I had to do this a few years ago for a remodel, and I did it both ways to be sure - take-off and per-fixture and came up with about the same amount each way.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Well, 


I was supposed to get back to this church and give them a material price by friday, I think I posted it friday or thursday. So I shouldn't of expected anything other than up and down given the fact I'm conversing with plumbers across a 50 state spread.


I had a call in to a local plumber that does new construction and him and I played phone tag too much, never connected. 


I never responded back to the church either; I'll just act like I never got the email due to server problems. :blink:


I was just hoping for a formula like we used years ago here that would plug a number that I could say "hey, this is something you can go by, use this, figuring everything at basic quality, nothing above the line." 

They'll email back I'm sure with my non-response. I'm not even going to try and obligate any plumbing supply house either. That would be highly insulting to them knowing how rough they have it right now. Not going to happen through my name, that's fo damn sure!


The convo's on this thread have been helpful however. Bringing me back to those terrible new construction days plumbing bi-levels, ranches, 2 story homes. 

Just dragging in 3 large garbage cans of PVC fittings and dumping them in the garage was the start of aggravation, knowing how many effing trips I'll be making to the pile before it's all done. 

And the money? Ridiculously underpaid when you figure everything from pulling the permit at the office, down to the last visit to the property. And that means those callbacks for stupid stuff that the new homeowner laughs and don't understand that it wasn't plumbing related. You know the calls I'm speaking of...like mysterious water around the toilet that's because of little timmy splashing out of the tub. Or leaking through the floor cuz "they couldn't afford tub/shower doors" attitude and there's a can light directly sending that water to the floor. How effing lovely. No pay return.


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## Plumberpilot

I price residential and commercial jobs by the fixture not including the fixture. Hose bibbs and Fds along with icemaker boxes and dw conns are included on residential and added on commercial. Prices range from 500/fixture res no exterior water /sewer lines or conn fees incl up to what ever I can get for commercial. Fixtures include Sinks, lavs, Tubs, Showers, Washer conns, WHs, WCs. Radon vent extra. PVC DWV CPVC WLs. Not for everybody but the competition has always been tough in my area.


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## Redwood

Plumberpilot said:


> I price residential and commercial jobs by the fixture not including the fixture. Hose bibbs and Fds along with icemaker boxes and dw conns are included on residential and added on commercial. Prices range from 500/fixture res no exterior water /sewer lines or conn fees incl up to what ever I can get for commercial. Fixtures include Sinks, lavs, Tubs, Showers, Washer conns, WHs, WCs. Radon vent extra. PVC DWV CPVC WLs. Not for everybody but the competition has always been tough in my area.


Ricky stop at the Introductions page and say hi so we can give all the proper welcomes...
Give a little info about where you're from what you do code used etc..

Thanks for doing that man...:thumbup:


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## Artisan

Take a 1/2 hour and type up every last part you will need for one bathrrom with 10' of sewer hanging out past a wall, the VTR w/ flashing, right down to the copper fittings and solder, wc lav faucet EVERYthing, get a quote from your supply house. 

You will have 4 of these at least or more plus a laundry and kitchen and WH and water service and sewer and permits and and and ...

Tell us you guesstimate ok? 
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Now add LABOR LOL...............


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## reliable313

hi,
i m new in plumbing trade. Can any body tell me easy way to locate drain in the basement? or someone please tell me about some less expensive equipment, that could be help full. I ll appreciate.


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## Airgap

reliable313 said:


> hi,
> i m new in plumbing trade. Can any body tell me easy way to locate drain in the basement? or someone please tell me about some less expensive equipment, that could be help full. I ll appreciate.


Hire a licensed plumber in your area.


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## Ron

reliable313 said:


> hi,
> i m new in plumbing trade. Can any body tell me easy way to locate drain in the basement? or someone please tell me about some less expensive equipment, that could be help full. I ll appreciate.


Thanks for posting on PlumbingZone.com. The Moderators of this forum would prefer if you post Do It Yourself related topics on our sister site www.DIYChatroom.com 

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## stillaround

Plumberpilot said:


> I price residential and commercial jobs by the fixture not including the fixture. Hose bibbs and Fds along with icemaker boxes and dw conns are included on residential and added on commercial. Prices range from 500/fixture res no exterior water /sewer lines or conn fees incl up to what ever I can get for commercial. Fixtures include Sinks, lavs, Tubs, Showers, Washer conns, WHs, WCs. Radon vent extra. PVC DWV CPVC WLs. Not for everybody but the competition has always been tough in my area.


I priced it similarly---spec houses different from custom different from commercial. Up to 100ft.water and 20 ft. sewer exterior on res. and 5ft. out on commercial unless the site plan is clear and they want it included in the bid. Florida with cpvc/pex and pvc waste can lose money easy at $450 a fixture labor and piping( no fixture) unless its kept to 4 trips total, combined pay on a 2 man crew is under $35/hr and a 2 man crew beats 3.5 hrs a fixture-real (I mean real )total time-including all mobilization. Add on for 2 story or off-grade and drop in tubs add on etc etc. Prices based on standard fixtures widespreads extra etc etc. We got gps and figured out why we couldnt make any profit at $550/fx for custom. The extra trips and picking up the broken pieces ruined it, and once you start developing an attitude they look for a cheaper price. Let them have it. Then ....you can wait for your money---Oh I better quit here.
New construction--theres always a new variation to face and the nice guys get to eat it.


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## Plumberpilot

stillaround said:


> I priced it similarly---spec houses different from custom different from commercial. Up to 100ft.water and 20 ft. sewer exterior on res. and 5ft. out on commercial unless the site plan is clear and they want it included in the bid. Florida with cpvc/pex and pvc waste can lose money easy at $450 a fixture labor and piping( no fixture) unless its kept to 4 trips total, combined pay on a 2 man crew is under $35/hr and a 2 man crew beats 3.5 hrs a fixture-real (I mean real )total time-including all mobilization. Add on for 2 story or off-grade and drop in tubs add on etc etc. Prices based on standard fixtures widespreads extra etc etc. We got gps and figured out why we couldnt make any profit at $550/fx for custom. The extra trips and picking up the broken pieces ruined it, and once you start developing an attitude they look for a cheaper price. Let them have it. Then ....you can wait for your money---Oh I better quit here.
> New construction--theres always a new variation to face and the nice guys get to eat it.


Like I said my system's not for everyone, I carefully track every item on every job via invoices and time sheets with profit and O/H added and every hour labor I pay is charged to a job, either a hourly job or a contract job. I pay my crews more than you, at 35/hr I wouldn't break even. I bill myself 75/hr for EVERY CREW HR I PAY, that includes O/H. I don't demand speed from the crews (within reason) but I demand a good job and customer service. I don't usually make a killing on the track houses but I do make a profit and they provide meat and potatos while we wait for the filet.


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## Herk

When I was doing houses, I would go to the house first and drill everything out, then make as exact a list as I could, then make the supply house trip. Usually, there was one more trip before the complete rough was done. 

It was quite easy to then figure hours and a couple of invoices as compared to the actual price of the job to know how much money was being made.

I included fixtures, such as washer box, shower or steel tub, steel self-rim basins, SS kitchen. Anything extra was figured in as the difference, such as CI sink or single basin faucets or disposer.

After the per fixture price, you develop a distance price - if all baths are in line with each other floor to floor, then no additional charge. If they're twenty or thirty feet apart, then add per foot for feet of pipe. You should also have a per-foot charge for water and sewer. Feel free to share that per-foot charge with the general, so he knows what to expect.

These days, I see all sorts of shortcuts and cheap faucets and wonder how plumbers can get away with it, but then I remember that they've always done that. I was the go-to guy for quality faucets and workmanship. (Hint: if you don't seal the faucets and sinks to the counters, they will leak through and destroy the cabinets.)


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## stillaround

Some of these knock off faucets are getting better---it provides a way in the service side to offer a cheaper option when money is the breaker--but I agree- in the end quality should win the day.


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