# Rodents and Pipes



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Well boys, we are going down the rabbit hole. Today the supply house gave us four cordless expanders and 3 rolls of pex for free. We are switching from fostapex and bronze fittings to expanding pex with plastic fittings on our newcon.


I can't wait to see what happens the second or third time we get a rodent chewing through a pipe.








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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> Well boys, we are going down the rabbit hole. Today the supply house gave us four cordless expanders and 3 rolls of pex for free. We are switching from fostapex and bronze fittings to expanding pex with plastic fittings on our newcon.
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see what happens the second or third time we get a rodent chewing through a pipe.
> ...


A supply house guy was telling me he knew a plumber that would sell the rodent resistant upgrade. He would sleeve 1/2” pex in 3/4” alumaflex and 3/4” pex in 1”


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Well boys, we are going down the rabbit hole. Today the supply house gave us four cordless expanders and 3 rolls of pex for free. We are switching from fostapex and bronze fittings to expanding pex with plastic fittings on our newcon.
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see what happens the second or third time we get a rodent chewing through a pipe.
> ...



Here you go, this last fall. Poly B pipe, the mice didn't chew the pipe because they like the taste. They chewed the pipe and the cabinet to go through the cabinet hole.... The mice were having a party in the kids drop ceiling under the kitchen. Mouse poop all over, I could of filled a small bucket. Lots of tunnels inside the fiberglass insulation. 

That's where I saw the exterminator bill. Those a$$holes are unscrupulous bandits.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> Here you go, this last fall. Poly B pipe, the mice didn't chew the pipe because they like the taste. They chewed the pipe and the cabinet to go through the cabinet hole.... The mice were having a party in the kids drop ceiling under the kitchen. Mouse poop all over, I could of filled a small bucket. Lots of tunnels inside the fiberglass insulation.
> 
> That's where I saw the exterminator bill. Those a$$holes are unscrupulous bandits.



I have had several service calls where the leak was mice holes. Including one at my own house!! Luckily only one of the calls was stuff we put in and that bathroom was supposed to be temporary.









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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

People do not realize that the mouse baits with the poison de-hydrate the mice while the rodents are dying. That is why they gnaw through the pipes; they are desperately searching for water.

I had a customer who lived in a double-wide MH out in a rural area with livestock and forest all around her place. She threw mouse baits all around. She had {3} water piping leaks. I kept getting called back to make repairs. 

I told her to set the old-fashioned style mouse traps, just keep them away from the dogs and other pets.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> People do not realize that the mouse baits with the poison de-hydrate the mice while the rodents are dying. That is why they gnaw through the pipes; they are desperately searching for water.
> 
> I had a customer who lived in a double-wide MH out in a rural area with livestock and forest all around her place. She threw mouse baits all around. She had {3} water piping leaks. I kept getting called back to make repairs.
> 
> I told her to set the old-fashioned style mouse traps, just keep them away from the dogs and other pets.





At least for my area I have to disagree. All of the mouse holes I have found were from them trying to get by the pipe. I have heard the theory that they hear the water inside but I have yet to see evidence of that.


Granted most of the basements here have other sources of water like leaks in the foundation they wouldn't have to chew for.


I think it's pretty dumb we will be switching to wirsbo pipe. Not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just we have used fostapex for like 6 years now and will still need to carry that stuff on the van for service. We all still have sweat fittings on the vans!!


Propress, sweat, viega, threaded, now wirsbo too?!?! And they have yet to buy us high boy vans!!!!








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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> People do not realize that the mouse baits with the poison de-hydrate the mice while the rodents are dying. That is why they gnaw through the pipes; they are desperately searching for water.
> 
> I had a customer who lived in a double-wide MH out in a rural area with livestock and forest all around her place. She threw mouse baits all around. She had {3} water piping leaks. I kept getting called back to make repairs.
> 
> I told her to set the old-fashioned style mouse traps, just keep them away from the dogs and other pets.



I dont think the search for water is the cause for rodent damage to pex....more likely the smell of the pipe....many manufactures of wire for automobiles have started using some plant based material and the rodents love it, so they chew up the wiring in your car like crazy, even the new romex for houses may have this, but not sure..
when I gutted my house upstate it had a mix of romex( made 20 years ago) and the old cloth covered wiring, almost all of the cloth covering was eaten off and bare copper wires were behind the walls, none of the older romex was touched by mice...they eat by smell not sound....
the only thing I have seen munch on romex exposed outdoors are the dam squirrels .....


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I dont think the search for water is the cause for rodent damage to pex....more likely the smell of the pipe....many manufactures of wire for automobiles have started using some plant based material and the rodents love it, so they chew up the wiring in your car like crazy, even the new romex for houses may have this, but not sure..
> when I gutted my house upstate it had a mix of romex( made 20 years ago) and the old cloth covered wiring, almost all of the cloth covering was eaten off and bare copper wires were behind the walls, none of the older romex was touched by mice...they eat by smell not sound....
> the only thing I have seen munch on romex exposed outdoors are the dam squirrels .....





Maybe they were going after the cloth covering for their nests.






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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Maybe they were going after the cloth covering for their nests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dont think they ate it but they chewed the wires clean, found a few that musta made contact between the hot and neutral..crispy critters..


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I dont think the search for water is the cause for rodent damage to pex....more likely the smell of the pipe....many manufactures of wire for automobiles have started using some plant based material and the rodents love it, so they chew up the wiring in your car like crazy, even the new romex for houses may have this, but not sure..
> when I gutted my house upstate it had a mix of romex( made 20 years ago) and the old cloth covered wiring, almost all of the cloth covering was eaten off and bare copper wires were behind the walls, none of the older romex was touched by mice...they eat by smell not sound....
> the only thing I have seen munch on romex exposed outdoors are the dam squirrels .....


Since this is a thread drift now, here’s a picture of 24 volt air conditioning condenser wires the little *******s chewed through. You can see the teeth marks in the copper.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Here ya go I made a thread for rodents chewing gum...


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

No water here, wife car with not even 2k miles when happened


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Dang, that's some good chewin goin on there. Does she not drive it often? Just makes me wonder if that was one or two with a lot of time, or a buttload over night. Or heck, one or two overnight, i don't know how quick they work.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

most of the plastics in cars now are made with some soy based crap plastic the rodents love to chew on...if I park for any amount of time I throw moth balls under the hood, keeps those little ba$tards from hanging around...


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't know Chonkie, women don't pay to much attention to the cars (at least my wife and daughters) and I barely use her car.
One weekend I took it for a carwash and on my way I noticed that the windshield washer didn't work so when I get back I found that mess (including the tubing for the windshield fluid).


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> most of the plastics in cars now are made with some soy based crap plastic the rodents love to chew on...if I park for any amount of time I throw moth balls under the hood, keeps those little ba$tards from hanging around...


Interesting, do moth balls in the attic work too. I've got a "few" mice up there I think. Don't hear them all the time, prob just means they're in the damn walls. They don't get caught with traditional traps. I put poison up there and it got chewed on, but I don't think all of them have gotten to taste the scrumptious treat I left them. I prob need to throw a hungry cat up there.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

chonkie said:


> Interesting, do moth balls in the attic work too. I've got a "few" mice up there I think. Don't hear them all the time, prob just means they're in the damn walls. They don't get caught with traditional traps. I put poison up there and it got chewed on, but I don't think all of them have gotten to taste the scrumptious treat I left them. I prob need to throw a hungry cat up there.


 yes, it has to be the old fashioned moth balls.....they work the best...
https://www.amazon.com/Enoz-Naphthalene-Control-Balls-1-Box/dp/B0784L2QBD/ref=sr_1_20?crid=20JNRWX003X2R&keywords=enoz+old+fashioned+moth+balls&qid=1557322221&s=gateway&sprefix=Old+Fashioned+Moth+Balls+Enoz+%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-20


you and tango can work out the cat thing..lol


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

chonkie said:


> Interesting, do moth balls in the attic work too. I've got a "few" mice up there I think. Don't hear them all the time, prob just means they're in the damn walls. They don't get caught with traditional traps. I put poison up there and it got chewed on, but I don't think all of them have gotten to taste the scrumptious treat I left them. I prob need to throw a hungry cat up there.


I put mouse traps in front of the garage door. I can catch up to 3 in a single night. I toss out them on the open field put a lick of peanut butter and repeat. One time the cat took off with with a dead mouse and the trap still attached.

Sometimes the traps disappear altogether as feral cats visit during the night.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I put mouse traps in front of the garage door. I can catch up to 3 in a single night. I toss out them on the open field put a lick of peanut butter and repeat. One time the cat took off with with a dead mouse and the trap still attached.
> 
> Sometimes the traps disappear altogether as feral cats visit during the night.


 you need this....


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Damn rodents


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Debo22 said:


> Damn rodents


Was it chewed because it went through an opening?


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> Was it chewed because it went through an opening?





I want to know this too. All the times I have seen rodents chew through pex, pe, pvc/cpvc it's always been to get by the stuff. Some guys say they think it's because they get poisoned and hear the water but I have never seen an example where they weren't trying to get by the pipe.








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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tango said:


> Was it chewed because it went through an opening?


You and Skoro are correct. It was leaking about a 1/2” deep inside the top plate.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Debo22 said:


> You and Skoro are correct. It was leaking about a 1/2” deep inside the top plate.


From what I've seen mice will try to enlarge an opening to get through. It's easier to chew through pex than wood. In my old house I've seen the tiniest of gap between drywall and floor trust and they chewed to get from one place to another.

Speaking of which I need to buy a dozen mouse traps and peanut butter. I didn't do that last summer and boy they pooped in my garage big time.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Debo22 said:


> You and Skoro are correct. It was leaking about a 1/2” deep inside the top plate.





What was your solution to prevent it from happening again? Bigger hole? Copper?


They scare easily but they'll be back, and in greater numbers too.






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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> What was your solution to prevent it from happening again? Bigger hole? Copper?
> 
> 
> They scare easily but they'll be back, and in greater numbers too.
> ...


silicone...fill in all voids and the mouse usually will not try to chew if there is no crevice they want to go through..


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> What was your solution to prevent it from happening again? Bigger hole? Copper?
> 
> 
> They scare easily but they'll be back, and in greater numbers too.
> ...


Plastic insulation clamp


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Debo22 said:


> Plastic insulation clamp


the problem is many plastics are made with a soy based plant product aka mouse food..that why they chew the schit out of cars.....I havent seen a mouse yet chew silicone....


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> the problem is many plastics are made with a soy based plant product aka mouse food..that why they chew the schit out of cars.....I havent seen a mouse yet chew silicone....







I will second you on silicone's resistance to rodents, only seen one nibble at some silicone once and it was minimal.


The soy plastics thing though is not any more of a problem than regular plastics. Either way it's softer than wood, they will chew it. There isn't any plant matter left for the mouse to smell/taste. Besides, soy/corn/plant plastics still haven't reached areas of the market like hangers because they can tear more easily and don't have as good strength as regular plastics.


At the very least they cost much more to manufacture and I have yet to see any plant based plastics make their way into any plumbing products.






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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> the problem is many plastics are made with a soy based plant product aka mouse food..that why they chew the schit out of cars.....I havent seen a mouse yet chew silicone....


I don’t carry silicone, maybe I should’ve used putty


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Debo22 said:


> I don’t carry silicone, maybe I should’ve used putty





Actually, you joke but putty or silicone for that matter, with bits of metal mixed in would be good to stop rodents.


But it doesn't really matter what you put next to the pipe because the pipe is soft plastic and if they think they can get by like they did before than they will chew the pipe again.


That's why I would have made the hole bigger which depending on may not be legal for fire reasons, or just patched it with copper. Or in our case we use viega pex and they have fosta pex with an aluminum jacket that I have never see rodents chew through.








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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Actually, you joke but putty or silicone for that matter, with bits of metal mixed in would be good to stop rodents.
> 
> 
> But it doesn't really matter what you put next to the pipe because the pipe is soft plastic and if they think they can get by like they did before than they will chew the pipe again.
> ...


oil based undercoat, just spray a foot down to coat the pipe and the rodents will stay away, only issue with pex is if the oil based spray will damage the pex in time..


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> oil based undercoat, just spray a foot down to coat the pipe and the rodents will stay away, only issue with pex is if the oil based spray will damage the pex in time..





It won't. Pex is polyethylene which is very resistant to petroleum which is why they use it for gas cans and oil bottles. They also use polypropylene for them too.






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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I'm waiting for the day we can use the stainless megapress or seapress fittings with thin wall stainless pipe. The ridgid rep said they are trying to get that approved. It would be just like propressing copper.




Swap out the butyl orings for viton and you'd have a near perfect domestic water plumbing system. Jomar already makes ball valves with polished stainless balls instead of chromed brass.






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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> It won't. Pex is polyethylene which is very resistant to petroleum which is hwy they use it for gas cans and oil bottles. They also use polypropylene for them too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


upstate before winter I have to spray all my small tree seedlings about 2 ft up with undercoat because the mice tunnel in the snow and chew all the bark off and kill the tree..


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