# Sewer Jetter Configuration



## luisrocha (Feb 3, 2019)

Hello Sirs,

I apologize if I ask obvious questions, I have a relative knowledge on the subject ... But let my questions ..
Currently my company uses Ridgid KJ-3100 sewer jetter machines (Vanguard Twin 16hp, gearbox and Annovi XWM2128 pump (4,000 psi, 5gpm ... although the Ridgid manual states that the pressure goes to 3,000psi, Ridig's manometer shows 3,000 psi, but it is possible to see the pointer over this mark)
The work of my company is mostly unclogs and drain lines in residences, small snack bars, and also condominiums (vilas). I do not deal with ultra-heavy cases, industries, with abrasive materials for example. I do not usually perform hydroblasting services (long time services), only unclogging, which usually requires 5 to 15 minutes of machine operation.
I intend to assemble 5 to 10 new machines for my teams, and now my questions..

1) Since my Ridgid machine complies with extreme ease 99% of the cases that I attend, I intend to reduce the specifications a bit. I intend to gain ease of movement when the employee will work alone, lower initial cost, and lower maintenance cost. I had thought of Vanguard 13hp (single cylinder) + gearbox + Annovi, General Pump or Comet Premium Pump 4,000 psi / 4gpm 

2) I have doubts about the pumps, my Ridgid has an Annovi XWM2128 pump. Manufacturer Comet has premium RW, SW and TW lines. My question is whether Comet RW is equivalent to Annovi's XWM in terms of durability. (The weight of the RW is 20% less), and General Pump TS2021…

3) I have already seen manometer connected straight into the body of the pump, and I have seen manometers connected after the output. What's the difference ?

4) I have doubts about the unloader, if I buy this 4,000 psi pump, and regulate the unloader to act at 3,800 psi. Is it a good security measure to increase system durability? Or if I buy the 4,000 psi premium pump I can always work at maximum without fear. (Remembering that 90% of my services are 5 to 20 minutes away)
Thank you immensely for your help,

At
Luis Rocha


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Until you post an intro, NO SOUP FOR YOU!!



.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. https://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals (those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


This one is from me, write more than one or two lines, elaborate. Are you proud in your trade well show it!


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I bought a bigger jetter to start with years ago and glad I did. Nothing like flooring the gas pedal when you need a problem to go away. :biggrin:


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> I bought a bigger jetter to start with years ago and glad I did. Nothing like flooring the gas pedal when you need a problem to go away. :biggrin:



I would love a jetter.






.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> I would love a jetter.
> 
> .


Cash machine.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

dhal22 said:


> Cash machine.


Cash going out and not coming back in unless you can get a contract with the city or something. If not it's a bankruptcy machine.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I refer on average 15 calls a year to another pair of companies who have jetters. One of those companies we regularly work with for excavation.

My boss thinks and I kind of agree, that if we offer jetting of buried lines than we also should have an excavator. That would be significantly outside of the scope of our current employees skill sets and doesn't fit with what we have historically done.

It would be a great way to expand but we can't get enough plumbers and heating guys so we don't want to have to spread our selves thinner. Also our area has a lot of competent excavation companies who we are close with.



.


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Tango said:


> dhal22 said:
> 
> 
> > Cash machine.
> ...


That’s just not true. It’s the most profitable part of my business. I spent 50K on my machine and paid for it in 22 months with zero jetting contracts. And if I can do it, so can anybody else. This ain’t rocket science.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Toli said:


> That’s just not true. It’s the most profitable part of my business. I spent 50K on my machine and paid for it in 22 months with zero jetting contracts. And if I can do it, so can anybody else. This ain’t rocket science.



Maybe in your area it's an easy sale... How much does a machine like that cost and what amount do you make for each. You can put an average from other in your area if you don't want to put your numbers on the table.

In order to agree with you, how big is the city how many residents? How many times a week does your phone ring for that jetter specifically? Do you get calls only from home owners or commercial or institutional or industrial? Do you need a master plumber licence too? Do the Institutions hire anyone or do you have to go on a waiting list and hopefully in 5 years they will try you out?

Do commercial places pay their bills? Over here it's notorious for them NOT to pay. Government also have a really hard time paying their subs. So much so that a law is being passed because they are poor payers and many companies go bankrupt.

Over here a jetter is a complete unknown, the supply house or even plumbers don't even know what they are! I get camera calls and I've yet to make one, they all drop the issue thinking it cost 60$ or something.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I paid just under $50,000 for my Mongoose. It generated $75,000 in the first year and averaged that until this year. It might break $100,000 this year. We did $21,000 in 3 weeks in November. If you don't like my kick ass machine solving your problems at $450 hr then I'm headed to someone that does. It is busy 3-5 days a week.

I don't jet anymore, 1 of my junior plumbers loves jetting and has taken over that machine.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Tango said:


> Cash going out and not coming back in unless you can get a contract with the city or something. If not it's a bankruptcy machine.


Restaurants everywhere have grease problems. Rainy seasons we jet storm drains, in dry seasons we jet roots. We service upwards of 50 car dealerships and they all need trench drain jetting eventually.

I've done some city jetting but too much paperwork and waiting.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Toli said:


> That’s just not true. It’s the most profitable part of my business. I spent 50K on my machine and paid for it in 22 months with zero jetting contracts. And if I can do it, so can anybody else. This ain’t rocket science.


I was nervous committing to 50K but 9+ months later I had recorded the same in revenue. The plumber that gave up on the job because he didn't have a jetter is usually nowhere to be found when I sell a new sewer line after I jet and camera. :devil3:


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

dhal22 said:


> Restaurants everywhere have grease problems. Rainy seasons we jet storm drains, in dry seasons we jet roots. We service upwards of 50 car dealerships and they all need trench drain jetting eventually.
> 
> I've done some city jetting but too much paperwork and waiting.


I think in order to get a machine that expensive you need to be a large sized company that has a lot of money saved up for those who say yes to the 450$/hr and don't pay. Then you need to have a lot of calls asking for that service prior to make a leap of faith.

Once the company is rolling in high gear and doesn't rely solely on that to make money I can see it but not a small outfit. And like you say offering other services like sewer replacement you can actually do.

My question is do the restaurants or any other caller pay their bills, Do you have a hard time getting paid by the small restaurants and the fancy restaurants or the dealerships?


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> I think in order to get a machine that expensive you need to be a large sized company that has a lot of money saved up for those who say yes to the 450$/hr and don't pay. Then you need to have a lot of calls asking for that service prior to make a leap of faith.
> 
> Once the company is rolling in high gear and doesn't rely solely on that to make money I can see it but not a small outfit. And like you say offering other services like sewer replacement you can actually do.
> 
> My question is do the restaurants or any other caller pay their bills, Do you have a hard time getting paid by the small restaurants and the fancy restaurants or the dealerships?





You constantly bring up the issue of not getting paid. For us it starts with a 200$ hold on a credit/debt card. If they don't pay the rest of the bill it gets sent to a lawyer.


It's probably safe to say you don't charge less than 200$ on most jobs. If they aren't ready to pay that you don't need them anyway as they can't afford you. It doesn't even have to be 200$, it could be 100$ or 50$ or just enough for your gas.




.


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

responses below-



Tango said:


> Maybe in your area it's an easy sale... How much does a machine like that cost and what amount do you make for each. You can put an average from other in your area if you don't want to put your numbers on the table.
> 
> I paid right at 50K. I charge a little less than Dahl22 does, 2 hr minimum.
> 
> ...


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> You constantly bring up the issue of not getting paid. For us it starts with a 200$ hold on a credit/debt card. If they don't pay the rest of the bill it gets sent to a lawyer.
> 
> 
> It's probably safe to say you don't charge less than 200$ on most jobs. If they aren't ready to pay that you don't need them anyway as they can't afford you. It doesn't even have to be 200$, it could be 100$ or 50$ or just enough for your gas.


I have 3 ladies full time in the office, all very adept at avoiding new customer situations where they might not pay. We started a massive cleaning job last November with a $7500 payment up front before we started. I required my office to receive a daily email acknowledgement from the customer as the job dragged on. 

Out of town owners, tenants, etc pay up front. But again, I have someone else taking care of those details while we work.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Toli said:


> responses below-


6 million in my immediate area.


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Tango said:


> I think in order to get a machine that expensive you need to be a large sized company that has a lot of money saved up for those who say yes to the 450$/hr and don't pay. Then you need to have a lot of calls asking for that service prior to make a leap of faith.
> 
> Once the company is rolling in high gear and doesn't rely solely on that to make money I can see it but not a small outfit. And like you say offering other services like sewer replacement you can actually do.
> 
> My question is do the restaurants or any other caller pay their bills, Do you have a hard time getting paid by the small restaurants and the fancy restaurants or the dealerships?


I'm a 2-man shop. You don't have to be a big shop to do it. Hell, I think I could make it by myself jetting and sprinkling in some service calls. We do probably 70% commercial service from a gross sales perspective. We do some residential as well, but we've slowly shifted away from that.

I was jetting with a small 5 gpm machine before I bought my 'goose. I was constantly push the limits with it. The demand at the time of purchase did not dictate I buy a 4K/18 machine. But i did and it opened doors. 

I don't fight not getting paid very often. and to be honest, when I do it's almost always the residential stuff.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Toli said:


> I'm a 2-man shop. You don't have to be a big shop to do it. Hell, I think I could make it by myself jetting and sprinkling in some service calls. We do probably 70% commercial service from a gross sales perspective. We do some residential as well, but we've slowly shifted away from that.
> 
> I was jetting with a small 5 gpm machine before I bought my 'goose. I was constantly push the limits with it. The demand at the time of purchase did not dictate I buy a 4K/18 machine. But i did and it opened doors.
> 
> I don't fight not getting paid very often. and to be honest, when I do it's almost always the residential stuff.


Then you have it easier than here. Here you would need a Master plumber licence and probably a few more related to city sewer pipes. That means passing 4 ministry exams and a master plumber exam (plus a few more maybe?). Then you would need to pay 4 more entities (2 of them yearly) and the other 2 each month and do monthly reports and send them money. You'd also would have to pay them because you have an employee.

If you don't have difficulty getting paid that's great!


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Another aspect of my getting work is other plumbing contractors and septic installers. I do a lot of jetting (and camera work) for plumbing contractors that don’t have the equipment. I also do some drain fields. 

If you wanna start a sh!t storm, gather some plumbers and septic installers and tell them you jet drain fields in an attempt to bring them back to life.:laugh::laugh:


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Toli said:


> Another aspect of my getting work is other plumbing contractors and septic installers. I do a lot of jetting (and camera work) for plumbing contractors that don’t have the equipment. I also do some drain fields.
> 
> If you wanna start a sh!t storm, gather some plumbers and septic installers and tell them you jet drain fields in an attempt to bring them back to life.:laugh::laugh:


What does jetting accomplish in a drain field?


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I would like to know too.


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> What does jetting accomplish in a drain field?




Ok, I’m not an expert here so I hope i get this right. 

A bacteria layer will form on the fill around the leech field pipes. It is my understanding that some is normal but when it gets out of control it seals off the fill. 

From what I’ve been told, once that happens the leech field is shot. 

What jetting does is cleans the sludge out of the drain field piping and will somewhat break up the bio mat as it sprays through the holes in the pipe. So your looking at uncovering enough of the piping so you can get to it all plus a vac truck to suck it out. 

Some say jetting breathes new life into an old field, some say it does nothing. That’s where everyone starts arguing. 

I think it puts off the inevitably of at least a new drain field. All situations are different so sometimes it makes sense to try, sometimes it seems like a waste.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Mostly chamber field systems here so that won't work. I'm ripping a couple of 6' deep chambers out in the morning to take a look at the conditions. I'll take pictures.


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> Mostly chamber field systems here so that won't work. I'm ripping a couple of 6' deep chambers out in the morning to take a look at the conditions. I'll take pictures.




That’s the one that’s like half a pipe setting on the open ground right?


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Toli said:


> That’s the one that’s like half a pipe setting on the open ground right?


Yes. They work great. Our annual rainfall was surpassed last year by summer and hasn't let up. We have a steady backlog of septic calls. I'm going to have some dirty employees today.


----------

