# Am Std One Piece Toilet - help a rookie out!



## Mega Smash (Oct 9, 2009)

Ok, this is the first American Standard one-piecer i've ever worked on. Normally, the HO's just want them ripped out and replaced. No this one - she's stuck on keeping this relic.

I was called for a dripping shower valve, after fixing that, I noticed another large water leak in the toilet. The fill valve wasn't shutting off. No problem - except for the design of it. As you can see, the flush lever assembly is part of it...










So I unscrewed the tower portion of the fill valve, installed a 400A, and clipped the OF hose onto the OF tube. I did not connect anything to the remaining portion of the original fill valve.

The flush actuator/flapper was original too, so I replaced that.

The toilet worked fine when I left. Two days later, she's calling and telling me that the toilet flushes on it's own. Also, she doesn't want to spend anymore money. 

I'd like to try and keep her happy, but I'm not about to spend $200.00 on genuine Am Std parts.

I'm heading there to see if the flapper seat is damaged or cracked at all maybe the overflow tube is cracked...

Is there a cheap way out?


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Mega Smash said:


> Is there a cheap way out?


No.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Mega Smash said:


> So I unscrewed the tower portion of the fill valve, installed a 400A, and clipped the OF hose onto the OF tube. I did not connect anything to the remaining portion of the original fill valve.
> 
> I'd like to try and keep her happy, but I'm not about to spend $200.00 on genuine Am Std parts.
> 
> ...


No. A fluidmaster is not a fit all ballcock. Look at the size and location of the hoses and that should have given you a clue

It's not you spending the $200.00 for the partsit is the clients money and if they want it repaired and willing to spend the money who are you to argue. 

A Vent-A-Way when they work they are great, when they need repaired it is expensive. That was one of the most expensive water closet back in the 60's and 70's.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

This is the main reason i "ALWAYS" try too use the original parts!!!!!!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Chaulk it up as a lesson learned. OEM is the best way to go, some smart engineer designed it to work a specific way, and you are altering the intended function. 

Some stuff that is fine, but this is not one of those situations. Reminds me of some One-piece Kohlers I worked on. I called the wholesaler while standing over the toilet looking at it, so all questions would be answered correctly.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Indie said:


> Chaulk it up as a lesson learned. OEM is the best way to go, some smart engineer designed it to work a specific way, and you are altering the intended function.
> 
> Some stuff that is fine, but this is not one of those situations. Reminds me of some One-piece Kohlers I worked on. I called the wholesaler while standing over the toilet looking at it, so all questions would be answered correctly.


Agreed. Some things are fine for aftermarket, some require OEM...

My 2000 Pontiac gets whatever cheap aftermarket sh!te I can get my hands on, my 1990 F-150... Pure original...


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

I hate those things...
OEM is the only way to go an ALL one piece toilets.
And for future reference, if working on a TOTO, use OEM, fluidmasters don't always work right, and no a blue fill valve cannot replace a green fill valve, lesson learned that I figure to pass on.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Mega Smash, it's going to cost YOU like $ 200- $250 to put all new parts in that W/C. Work up a price and submit it to the HO before you start tearing that W/C apart. If they want to spend the money, then go for it.

You can either rebuild the fill valve or replace it. I'd replace the entire flush valve and the trip-lever.

In some applications a Fluidmaster won't work, this is one of them.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I had a lady tip me $400.00 when I finished replacing a vent-a-way. :thumbsup:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> I had a lady tip me $400.00 when I finished replacing a vent-a-way. :thumbsup:



What kind of extra service came with that install, hmmm? :thumbup:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Indie said:


> What kind of extra service came with that install, hmmm? :thumbup:


I have a heck of a plumbers crack, women love it.


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## Mega Smash (Oct 9, 2009)

Associated Plum said:


> No. A fluidmaster is not a fit all ballcock. Look at the size and location of the hoses and that should have given you a clue
> 
> It's not you spending the $200.00 for the partsit is the clients money and if they want it repaired and willing to spend the money who are you to argue.
> 
> A Vent-A-Way when they work they are great, when they need repaired it is expensive. That was one of the most expensive water closet back in the 60's and 70's.


Ok - can someone please educate me as to how a "vent-a-way" is supposed to work? From what i've read, it's supposed to suck odours away when you flush.

Looking at the flush/fill mechanism of this toilet, I can't figure out where the fill water goes (why?) for the first 15-20s of the refill cycle. Once the actuator trips closed, it shifts the (secondary?) fill valve, and the water fills the bowl and goes down the overflow tube.

I've seen another one of these Am Std one piece toilets with a wacky looking fill valve as well.

If a Fluidmaster fits, why won't it work?


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

If I remember correctly one is for the flush and the other is for the fill.
I'm going to be blunt, everyone who has posted has told you you have to go with the OEM PERIOD. There is no other way.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

In your picture I can see hard wood floors. If you ruin that floor, and she files an insurance claim, and they come out and see something other that OEM parts, you're done!...:yes: Even with OEM parts and a flood, you'll have some 'splainin to do. 

HO obviously loves that pink W/C, so put original equip. back in..:thumbsup:


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## Mega Smash (Oct 9, 2009)

plumb nutz said:


> I'm going to be blunt, everyone who has posted has told you you have to go with the OEM PERIOD. There is no other way.


I appreciate the input and advice, and in no way am I doubting it - but: "If a Fluidmaster fits, why won't it work?"

Have any members tried using a Fluidmaster valve in such an application?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Mega Smash said:


> I appreciate the input and advice, and in no way am I doubting it - but: "If a Fluidmaster fits, why won't it work?"
> 
> Have any members tried using a Fluidmaster valve in such an application?


Because it doesn't really fit...

It's kind of like throwing a 5hp Honda lawn mower motor in the trunk of a toyota and claiming you replaced the engine in the toyota....

The ventaway is a pretty unique toilet....
http://www.toiletexperts.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=7_56_314

I'd just replace the thing! is a 40 - 50 year old toilet worth putting that much money into?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Mega Smash said:


> I appreciate the input and advice, and in no way am I doubting it - but: "If a Fluidmaster fits, why won't it work?"
> 
> Have any members tried using a Fluidmaster valve in such an application?


Sometimes the engineering answer for "why" escapes us. 

I have seen, (I think it was a Kohler) where the change in the flow coming in from the fill valve changed how the flapper seated thus screwing up the whole thing. You're just going to have to trust that all that pain in the arse hardware wasn't designed just to look cool. Get the OEM. Price a complete rebuild, include the trip lever, use finesse over force and you'll have a customer for life.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Many of the one piece toilets were designed to be quiet as well. If you change that feature, you're gonna hear about it.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

We hired a 'super plumber' years ago. When asked if he knew how to repair one of the old Case 1-piece toilets, He said "if I can't figure it out, I'll just replace it with a Wellworth". He didn't last long.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

smoldrn said:


> We hired a 'super plumber' years ago. When asked if he knew how to repair one of the old Case 1-piece toilets, He said "if I can't figure it out, I'll just replace it with a Wellworth". He didn't last long.


I think repairing an old Case one piece is a whole other story...:laughing:

For one thing you already have a decent toilet that has worked great for over 50 years....:laughing:
And when you fix it the thing will probably go another 50 easy...

The Vent-Away design was problematic from day one and yes they are fixable if you throw enough parts and time at them...

The question is seeing as you are starting out with a $200 ballcock before you move on to the $100 vent assembly and the $100 backflow preventer at what point do you say to the customer that for less money you can give them a nice new Toto Drake II that will flush better than that POS ever did?

Should you wait until the tab reaches a point where the customer could have paid for a Toto Neorest 600 and you have a signed deed of trust on their house?:laughing:


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Mega Smash said:


> Ok - can someone please educate me as to how a "vent-a-way" is supposed to work? From what i've read, it's supposed to suck odours away when you flush.
> 
> Looking at the flush/fill mechanism of this toilet, I can't figure out where the fill water goes (why?) for the first 15-20s of the refill cycle. Once the actuator trips closed, it shifts the (secondary?) fill valve, and the water fills the bowl and goes down the overflow tube.
> 
> ...


Your "Vent-A-Way" is not designed to suck out odors as it does not have the vent assembly installed. If it did have the vent assembly you would pull out on the trip lever instead of pushing in.

The fluidmaster will not work because it will not flow enough water.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I had a Case (Briggs) one-piece for many years and never thought it flushed all that well. And once I found out what the repair parts cost, oy. More than I paid for the toilet (parts from Sexauer) originally. I was really glad the day I hauled it off and stuck in a Toto. Much better flush, relatively normal parts. (I much prefer the Gerber Avalanche upstairs.)


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