# cursed wrench's



## reposessions (Nov 1, 2010)

So Tuesday I had a gas line job to do. My old ridge pipe wrench's were handed to me by my grandpa when I got my first plumbing job. They always slip, and look rough. Well I was in lowes that morning grabbing some sharpies and wastin time till the ho was done dropping kids of at school. I was looking at the tools and seen they had kobalt pipe wrenchs in aluminum, for cheap. Ended up grabbing 3 of them. Went and did the job, this job had about 25 connections. Used my new wrenchs for them all. Air test time. (Keep in mind I'm not the best at the trade yet, and I'm in better shape then most I like to think.) But I had a leak at 17 of them. Got upset pulled them all off had office send hvac guy to supply house to get me new fittings. Put it back together using more strength and pipe dope. 2 leaks. I'm mad now. Climb back in attic and retighten them. Its good now. Got home my mom called my grandpa has been fighting cancer, was doing good. Now 30 - 60 days. Went out to truck with tears and tossed my new wrench's in to the field. Put pawpaw's back in my tool bag. Yesterday neighbor decides to brushhog around the fence row. Seems like a 12" pipe wrench wouldn't hurt a brushhog that bad but I just spent two hours helping him change blades and a bearing. FML


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Seems like you might have to hire a VooDoo witch Doctor to take the curse off those wrenches. 

Sounds like there is something else entirely going on. Maybe you took for granted the strength of the wrench cause it felt good to have bite, or were distracted. 

Did you use a different dope, or different method?

Sorry to hear about your grandpa.


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## reposessions (Nov 1, 2010)

Your right indie, I think it was the bite also. I usualy start with a medium size 10 or 14 inch wrench tighten till it slips then do 1.5 with next size bigger. But I remember using just one wrench to tighten. And this might sound weird but I think I did that becouse of the reduced weight of the wrench, made me think I was in a pit crew or something where I needed speed.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Rough times for sure. Been there and feel for ya. You using thread tape as well as pipe dope? If not you should, it will put an end to leaking joints. Either or will leak on you, use both and you can focus more on whats more important, like your grandpa. 17 leaks is extreme though, either bad dies, not tightening joints enough or too much? Use both sealants in tandem, you'd be surprised what you can seal. Put thread tape on threads, then pipe dope and you're good to go. Oh btw, might wanna go fetch those wrenches, they didn't cause the leaks.:whistling2:


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## reposessions (Nov 1, 2010)

Both. Hmmm. Going to try that next job. But isn't teflon tape just a lube for the threads? I got them after he hit the first one. Lol


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Sorry about your grand dad.

Dope, tape, dope. Mega Lock: AKA Smurf spooge, won't let you down.

The only tools that are really cursed come from Harbor Frieght...:thumbsup:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I've used La-Co Slic Tite for the better part of 20 years with a pretty good success rate -- Never really been much of a fan of the dual dope/tape practice myself.

Just make sure You're brushing the dope into the threads and not just across them.

On bigger jobs I'll usually stop and cap everything off and put on an air test every hour or so and spray everything down really well with soapy water before proceeding.

Waiting until the end of the job to find out you have to back everything out and start over can be a real let down.

Sorry about your Grandfather, that's a pretty rough way to have to end a rough day.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

reposessions said:


> Both. Hmmm. Going to try that next job. But isn't teflon tape just a lube for the threads? I got them after he hit the first one. Lol


The tape, just like pipe dope will pile up in those micro sized voids. You'd be amazed what I've seen them seal. I learned to do this when I had joints I could not get to hold. Figured out ok if it works this great on them then I'll just do it full time. It's kinda like wearing seat belts, kind of a pain to get in the habit, but now I don't feel good about a joint unless I do. It sure ended taking things back apart.:thumbsup:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Another tip, on those gas lines a union strategically placed every so often can save cutting one in later. An I use Mega Lock, Rector Seal seals good but it dries hard and is a royal pain years later to get the joint apart.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

how much tape do you use? when i use tape i put 2 wraps on on end of pipe and 3 more behind it. no more leaks. breid.....................:rockon:


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

I've grown fond of the teflon impregnated dope, (white stuff) haven't had a problem with it, rectorseal either unless the can is old and almost empty...


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm not sure about what you guys are using, but normal teflon is prohibited for use on gas line. Now, if your using approved teflon(I think yellow, or red), then have at it, but standard white teflon can flake off and plug things up in the internals of the gas valve, or orifices. 

Not sure what is available in you area, but I have found that stuff called Key-Tite works best. 

It is nasty stuff, thick, green, and messy, but makes a great seal. I always tell people, if your not making a face, or grunting, its not tight enough, especially gas line.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> The tape, just like pipe dope will pile up in those micro sized voids. You'd be amazed what I've seen them seal. I learned to do this when I had joints I could not get to hold. Figured out ok if it works this great on them then I'll just do it full time. It's kinda like wearing seat belts, kind of a pain to get in the habit, but now I don't feel good about a joint unless I do. It sure ended taking things back apart.:thumbsup:


:no:

Like the pilot tube orifice. 

No teflon tape on gas.

Rectorseal #5.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> :no:
> 
> Like the pilot tube orifice.
> 
> ...


Not sure how you're getting the tape inside the pipe to do all that. I start the tape in such a way I know it won't be inside pipe, user error will do what you've said. 2 wraps, making sure to leave end open, then Mega Lock. I have yet to have my first complaint. And I worked a HVAC/Plumbing shop for 12 years. On a new system it's always a good idea to blow the lines out upon completion to remove dirt or other debris. Like anything, there's a right and wrong way. And yes, yellow tape.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

oh, I'm not getting it in there. But other people are.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> Another tip, on those gas lines a union strategically placed every so often can save cutting one in later. An I use Mega Lock, Rector Seal seals good but it dries hard and is a royal pain years later to get the joint apart.


Here union are only allowed at appliances also I love megalock but the teflons not allowed on gas line as it can get in the gas valve control and allow leaking thru 
Dope is all you need remember its pipe one pipe that makes the seal 

Also do any of you use dope and lampwick (also not legal on gas lines) great on water and steam


Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

I have ran miles of black iron in my day. No need for tape+dope or grunting when tightening the connection. I have grown partial to the teflon impregnated pipe dopes but have ran the majority with the old "grey" oil based Hercules brand without issues.

Something else is going on if you had 17 leaks . Look at your threads closely. Are they tapered? Are there imperfections? Are you tightening too tight? Are you using a back wrench? Make sure you use them properly as well, you should be pulling the wrenches towards each other starting no more than 90 degrees apart.

Or it's the cheap azz tiawan fittings, but it's not the wrenches. :no:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

In fact if you had a perfect thread you would only need oil for lubrication to make the joint.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Pipe Rat said:


> In fact if you had a perfect thread you would only need oil for lubrication to make the joint.


Should hold 100 psi no problem

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Pipe Rat said:


> In fact if you had a perfect thread you would only need oil for lubrication to make the joint.


Personally I don't think it was the wrenches,strength, tape or dope.

Prolly was Chi-knees junk nipples, fitt's and pipe.

Buy made in the USA out of US steel.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Pipe Rat said:


> I have ran miles of black iron in my day. No need for tape+dope or grunting when tightening the connection. I have grown partial to the teflon impregnated pipe dopes but have ran the majority with the old "grey" oil based Hercules brand without issues.
> 
> Something else is going on if you had 17 leaks . Look at your threads closely. Are they tapered? Are there imperfections? Are you tightening too tight? Are you using a back wrench? Make sure you use them properly as well, you should be pulling the wrenches towards each other starting no more than 90 degrees apart.
> 
> *Or it's the cheap azz tiawan fittings*, but it's not the wrenches. :no:


I couldn't agree more Bill :whistling2:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Personally I don't think it was the wrenches,strength, tape or dope.
> 
> Prolly was Chi-knees junk nipples, fitt's and pipe.
> 
> Buy made in the USA out of US steel.


Have to agree, if it was cheap piping you would (probably) notice the dies scalding the threads, not much you can do but get the good stuff. Fittings can be bad too. I've seen new fittings have pinholes in them. Have to check it all.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

reposessions said:


> ...Got home my mom called my grandpa has been fighting cancer, was doing good....


Puts it all in perspective. Got a tear reading your post thinking of Gramps. Hope all goes well for you and your family.

On the leaks...tapered thread fittings are designed to be leak free because of the threads, not packing them full of tape.

US Pipe + Properly Cut Threads + US Fittings + Pipe Dope = No Leaks


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## reposessions (Nov 1, 2010)

Thanks everyone.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Hey indie, that green goopy stuff, does it say "for oxygen service" any where on it? The only time I encountered something like that was doing a job on the melt floor at a local steel mill. Apparently high pressure O2 with the presence of oil equals KABOOM!!! Picture was unclear, couldn't read your label.

As for me, if I'm stuck with shiity pipe and fittings, I'm a dope-tape-dope kind of guy. I will also run the corner of the roll of tape around the threads to make sure it pushes down in there.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

all i do is hook up a wh every once in awhile. when i ran out of yellow tape. i went back to rectomseal #5 again. by the way i think you will find out that yellow gas line thread tape is teflon. at least oateys is. white, yellow and pink. breid................:rockon:


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*ua*

*2* 505 Key Tite can be used on _metal_ piping systems carrying: acids (diluted), air (compressed or gaseous), alcohols, alkalis (diluted), brine, caustics (diluted), gases (manufactured or natural), low pressure steam lines, sugar (liquid), and hot or cold water. from www.ipscorp.com. for key-tite 505 which is what indie has. ain't google wonderful? breid.........:rockon:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks Breid, yes I do know how to use google, but the image showed up with such poor quality that I couldn't make out anything other than key-tite. I didn't bother searching for just that because I didn't figure I had enough info as I'm sure there are many types by that Manu. If you googles Teflon tape, looking for info about a certain application, I would have to sift through pages of info. Didn't mean to waste your valuable time, just a simple question...


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

i tune my old wrenches up with file when they slip. also i wire brush the jaws when they get crappy. breid.............:rockon:


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*ua*

i wasn't pokin you in the eye. i'm 66 google is wonderful to me. computers, cell phones. i could go on for an hour. ain't it great? i don't do oxygen. so can you use 505? i don't see it but what do i know? breid.................:rockon:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Puts it all in perspective. Got a tear reading your post thinking of Gramps. Hope all goes well for you and your family.
> 
> On the leaks...tapered thread fittings are designed to be leak free because of the threads, not packing them full of tape.
> 
> US Pipe + Properly Cut Threads + US Fittings + Pipe Dope = No Leaks


LMAO,, what their designed to do assumes a perfect world. We don't make the pipe or the fittings, not to mention other variables such as where manufactured, condition of dies. Sooooo, I put the tape. If you're happy without then more power to you. :thumbup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

No need to have an old Ridgid Pipe Wrench with worn out jaws in your toolbox...

Ridgid does sell replacement parts...

http://ridgid.com/CatalogDocs/pipe_wr.pdf


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

I use "Pipe Tight" I'll have to get back with you if you need more details on the stuff.
Blue container with red thread lock mixed into it, its USDA approved for steam piping.
Its a major Mother to take apart after 1 hour, Makes rectum (rector) seal like soap. I was sold on it when the lead HVAC tech used it to seal the liquid line on a Coleman A/C unit no one could get to seal off. NG lines dont carry 345PSIG. 

As to wrenchs, file the jaws till you cant file anymore, take the tossed ones and sell to scrapers would have saved ya on the brushhog repairs.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

shakeyglenn68 said:


> I use "Pipe Tight" I'll have to get back with you if you need more details on the stuff.
> Blue container with red thread lock mixed into it, its USDA approved for steam piping.
> Its a major Mother to take apart after 1 hour, Makes rectum (rector) seal like soap. .


We are talking generic gas piping here, usually 4 to 6 ounces not steam. Am I missing something, why would we need something locked in. When I go on gas leaks, the fittings may leak, but are mothers to to take apart without thread lock. I understand expansion/contraction, but lock it down?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Indie said:


> I'm not sure about what you guys are using, but normal teflon is prohibited for use on gas line. Now, if your using approved teflon(I think yellow, or red), then have at it, but standard white teflon can flake off and plug things up in the internals of the gas valve, or orifices.
> 
> Not sure what is available in you area, but I have found that stuff called Key-Tite works best.
> 
> It is nasty stuff, thick, green, and messy, but makes a great seal. I always tell people, if your not making a face, or grunting, its not tight enough, especially gas line.


That's what they use at the coal burners, and where I get my supply. It's the best dope for 3" and bigger I've found.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Check the fittings and pipe threads, you should be able to make the fitting up 2-1/2 revolutions by hand...much more, or much less and you could have problems.....


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> I understand expansion/contraction, but lock it down?


 I lock it down for two reasons: 1, no call backs, I was taught dont bottom out the threads into the fittings, there should be 3 threads left outside of the fitting. The taper of the threads should seal, but dont trust it. 2, It was what I was taught, I dont question a elder plumber that has the power to take the back hoe away and replace it with a manually operated shovel.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

breid1903 said:


> i tune my old wrenches up with file when they slip. also i wire brush the jaws when they get crappy. breid.............:rockon:


I believe the jaws are case hardened so the hardened metal is in the outside layer. Once you get though that the wear is rapid and the filing becomes a regular chore if you use the wrenches a lot. New jaws are the way to go.



Airgap said:


> Check the fittings and pipe threads, *you should be able to make the fitting up 2-1/2 revolutions by hand*...much more, or much less and you could have problems.....


Spot on AirGap! Adjust the threader to get that 2 1/2 turns and make sure the cutter is cutting clean threads you will not have leaks.:thumbup:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Like Red says rebuild those wrenches

make your grandpa proud... I would use them until they snaped in two pieces before I would buy another pair.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

couldn't prove it by me. but my quess is you are correct. only did that once then i bought als. breid.............:rockon:


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