# Tankless install



## plumbum105 (Nov 2, 2011)




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## plumbum105 (Nov 2, 2011)




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## SHAUN C (Feb 16, 2011)

Your allowed to run pex to the install kit? We have to be 18" off the heater w copper/ hard pipe


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

SHAUN C said:


> Your allowed to run pex to the install kit? We have to be 18" off the heater w copper/ hard pipe


 I'm pretty sure that is a requirement by the manufacturer also. I know it is for the ones we install.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

I personally disagree with the "18" off a tankless unit. I run pex right up to the isolation kit as well. For a tank install the 18" is a must due to the high heat from the exhaust. Code only specifies 18" off a "water heater". In my opinion they need to change that wording. Give me a reason WHY NOT tie pex or even cpvc directly to the isolation kit.....other than its code? A good teacher can not only show you how it should be done but can also explain WHY.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

Chadillac80 said:


> I personally disagree with the "18" off a tankless unit. I run pex right up to the isolation kit as well. For a tank install the 18" is a must due to the high heat from the exhaust. Code only specifies 18" off a "water heater". In my opinion they need to change that wording. Give me a reason WHY NOT tie pex or even cpvc directly to the isolation kit.....other than its code? A good teacher can not only show you how it should be done but can also explain WHY.


Electric WH no vent.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

TPWinc said:


> Electric WH no vent.


Then it obviously malfunctioned and reached temps of 180+. In a situation like that 18" of rigid pipe coming off the unit isn't going to save the cpvc beyond that point.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

Chadillac80 said:


> Then it obviously malfunctioned and reached temps of 180+. In a situation like that 18" of rigid pipe coming off the unit isn't going to save the cpvc beyond that point.


Agreed... the solution is to not use plastic pipe at all... at least until they make a 170 degree at 90 PSI T&P valve requirement.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

plumbum105 said:


> View attachment 27729


I just spotted a very serious problem here... No Intro!:whistling2:


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

TPWinc said:


> I just spotted a very serious problem here... No Intro!:whistling2:


So many plumbums on here, it slipped by me. Great catch!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I like the diamond plate

......


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Hello! Introduction Requested

An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Lja1821 (Jul 27, 2013)

Poor planning on the gas..


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I hate the gas inlet location on the new Naviens, its right in front of the hot water outlet.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Yep it sucks


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Chadillac80 said:


> I personally disagree with the "18" off a tankless unit. I run pex right up to the isolation kit as well. For a tank install the 18" is a must due to the high heat from the exhaust. Code only specifies 18" off a "water heater". In my opinion they need to change that wording. Give me a reason WHY NOT tie pex or even cpvc directly to the isolation kit.....other than its code? A good teacher can not only show you how it should be done but can also explain WHY.


Here's why: 



















This was from a Tankless that malfunctioned due to the flow switch sticking and the unit stayed on. Preparing for the potential of a malfunction is why most of our water heating codes were written in the first place, i.e. drain pans, T&P valves, 18" of metal piping, no valve on the hot water outlet, etc. In a perfect world we wouldn't need a lot of those codes.

In this particular case if they had used copper for at least 2 feet of the piping before the tankless then this may have not happened. Or at least it would have stood a better chance of not happening. Further down the line the piping was okay but right at the unit the heat and pressure built up so much that it dissolved the CPVC. Pex may have faired better but still rigid copper is best IMO.


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

PlungerJockey said:


> I hate the gas inlet location on the new Naviens, its right in front of the hot water outlet.


Just sat through a Navien seminar, they said the logic behind the gas inlet is that since traditional gas hot water heaters have the gas inlet on the left side of the gas valve, it would make changing to a tankless model easier since the gas would also need to be on the left hand side.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

tnplumber said:


> Just sat through a Navien seminar, they said the logic behind the gas inlet is that since traditional gas hot water heaters have the gas inlet on the left side of the gas valve, it would make changing to a tankless model easier since the gas would also need to be on the left hand side.


What a crock of sh!t.. a good tankless comapany can make gas connection from ethier side of the unit.. like boiler set up


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

tnplumber said:


> Just sat through a Navien seminar, they said the logic behind the gas inlet is that since traditional gas hot water heaters have the gas inlet on the left side of the gas valve, it would make changing to a tankless model easier since the gas would also need to be on the left hand side.


It's a crock, it looked good on the cad program and that is why they stuck it there. If they were truly concerned about ease of installation then the water inlet and outlet would be on the top, just like a standard water heater. They would pipe the unit at the factory in a manner that the t&p had its own port.

The gas inlet in its new location directly in front of the hot water outlet makes installation and service more difficult.


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## tnplumber (Aug 10, 2013)

PlungerJockey said:


> It's a crock, it looked good on the cad program and that is why they stuck it there. If they were truly concerned about ease of installation then the water inlet and outlet would be on the top, just like a standard water heater. They would pipe the unit at the factory in a manner that the t&p had its own port.
> 
> The gas inlet in its new location directly in front of the hot water outlet makes installation and service more difficult.


Yep, I agree. They also said a few guys have called the tech line because they hooked the hot water line to the gas fitting, lol. Not sure how you would be that stupid. They are clearly labeled.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I like the diamond plate
> 
> ......


That's pretty Tex.
I don't see a condensate drain coming off the bottom, what do you guys use?
The clear plastic tube or pex uglys them up.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

We use cpvc. Or copper .... I hadn't ran it when the pic was taken


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Here's why:
> 
> This was from a Tankless that malfunctioned due to the flow switch sticking and the unit stayed on. Preparing for the potential of a malfunction is why most of our water heating codes were written in the first place, i.e. drain pans, T&P valves, 18" of metal piping, no valve on the hot water outlet, etc. In a perfect world we wouldn't need a lot of those codes.
> 
> In this particular case if they had used copper for at least 2 feet of the piping before the tankless then this may have not happened. Or at least it would have stood a better chance of not happening. Further down the line the piping was okay but right at the unit the heat and pressure built up so much that it dissolved the CPVC. Pex may have faired better but still rigid copper is best IMO.


Again how does 18" of rigid pipe off the unit change a melt down like that?????? It doesn't. It's going to melt PERIOD during a malfunction. That last 90 that is bubbled on both sides is much further than 18" from that unit.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Chadillac80 said:


> Again how does 18" of rigid pipe off the unit change a melt down like that?????? It doesn't. It's going to melt PERIOD during a malfunction. That last 90 that is bubbled on both sides is much further than 18" from that unit.


No need to get all pissy. I see your point. You asked why so i showed one example where CPVC failed due to a malfunction. I also said it MAY have helped but it would have been better to have 2' to 3' of metal piping instead of 18". I agree that 18" of it would not have stopped the melting of the CPVC but maybe 2' would have which is what I teach my apprentices to do. In the end there is no perfect solution to preventing disaster in all cases and all we can do is merely attempt at it the best way we know how and learn from disasters like this.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I say toss out the pex and cpvc and plumb it in like a real plumber with copper.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> I say toss out the pex and cpvc and plumb it in like a real plumber with copper.


Copper is on the fast track to being obsolete in the plumbing industry. It's just like clay pipe, lead joints, galvanized pipe ect. Pex and even cpvc have completely taken over. Mainly pex. Uponor is the next best thing and that's all I install now a days. I don't feel any less of a plumber installing it either. ;-)


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Chadillac80 said:


> Copper is on the fast track to being obsolete in the plumbing industry. It's just like clay pipe, lead joints, galvanized pipe ect. Pex and even cpvc have completely taken over. Mainly pex. Uponor is the next best thing and that's all I install now a days. I don't feel any less of a plumber installing it either. ;-)


We still plumb with cast iron with leader joints, clay, galvanised. What we don't plumb with is pex and cpvc.

Guess what I never come across, melted copper pipe.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> We still plumb with cast iron with leader joints, clay, galvanised. What we don't plumb with is pex and cpvc.
> 
> Guess what I never come across, melted copper pipe.


I have. Due to electrolysis. And where do you still install clay??? I never said anything about cast because that's still widely used. As for galvanized.. Yes we still use nipples. I meant as main water pipes for the distribution system. I don't know of anybody plumbing houses in galvanized anymore. Obviously we have a difference of opinion. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I'm just calling it like I see it. Not many homes are being piped in copper anymore. It's pex or cpvc.


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## incarnatopnh (Feb 1, 2011)

Actually Los Angeles county still uses clay pipe for sewer mains. Guess it has something to do with the short lengths and earthquakes.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Chadillac80 said:


> I have. Due to electrolysis. And where do you still install clay??? I never said anything about cast because that's still widely used. As for galvanized.. Yes we still use nipples. I meant as main water pipes for the distribution system. I don't know of anybody plumbing houses in galvanized anymore. Obviously we have a difference of opinion. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I'm just calling it like I see it. Not many homes are being piped in copper anymore. It's pex or cpvc.


Then you don't work in Northern Illinois. Copper pipe is what 99% of the cities require. Chicago still uses clay pipe. And I have been in many homes that was done in galvanized per the customer request.

Tell me how do you see copper pipe melt from electrolysis? Also if you plumb a copper system in properly you will not have a problem with electrolysis. I can show you thousands of homes with copper and no issues. Hell I can even show you just as many with galvanized and no issues. 

Pex and cpvc is a joke, complete crap. It melts, it is very susceptible to rodents, poisons leaching through, failed fittings, failed pipe material. Pex has had plenty of class action lawsuits.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I guess you can't teach the new and up homers how to properly plumb and take pride in their trade.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Hey now. Don't group all of us together. Y'all all have seen my work. Not all young plumbers plumb like younger plumber!!!


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Then you don't work in Northern Illinois. Copper pipe is what 99% of the cities require. Chicago still uses clay pipe. And I have been in many homes that was done in galvanized per the customer request.
> 
> Tell me how do you see copper pipe melt from electrolysis? Also if you plumb a copper system in properly you will not have a problem with electrolysis. I can show you thousands of homes with copper and no issues. Hell I can even show you just as many with galvanized and no issues.
> 
> Pex and cpvc is a joke, complete crap. It melts, it is very susceptible to rodents, poisons leaching through, failed fittings, failed pipe material. Pex has had plenty of class action lawsuits.


Yea your right it doesn't really melt from electrolysis but I have seen it destroy copper. Burnt almost. I'm really basing my knowledge off where I live and fail to remember this forum is worldwide. Maybe I should retract my statement by saying in Texas copper is becoming obsolete in residential and the houses are being built with mainly pex or cpvc. All types of piping material has pros and cons. Copper does pinhole (even installed properly) just like any other material. I haven't personally seen a pinhole in pex from hard water. Also I have never seen a house piped in galvanized around here this day in age. I was under the impression the plumbing industry was in a phase of removing it from homes completely but in your parts y'all are installing the stuff. I still solder...male adapters on water heater installs and use copper in certain situations but for the most part (in Texas) we use other materials. In a commercial setting yes we installed copper and cast iron. As far as clay.. I should have specified in a residential setting. Main lines aren't ran in clay around here we use PVC.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Hey now. Don't group all of us together. Y'all all have seen my work. Not all young plumbers plumb like younger plumber!!!


Hahaha

Bazinga son!


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

Just because I'm not BIG on installing copper doesn't make me any less of a plumber. I'm sure the old school plumbers that used to pour lead and installed nothing but cast and steel could make the same kind of statement about us. We're not "real" plumbers because we don't do things the way they did. Just sayin ;-)


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I install pex a lot. I can't stand the way it looks but ur rite around here it's all the rage and u can't bid copper against pex !!! 

I'm sure ur a good plumber no matter what pipe u install. 
I bet ther are hacks pressing copper and no Hubbing cast that looks like crap


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

3 things:
1 - if a water heater malfunctions for any reason to the point of melting plastic, there are other dire issues to be concerned about, namely 3rd degree burns to the unlucky person in the shower. 
2. The code says 18" of hard pipe. Best to follow the code.
3. PEX is better than copper in too many ways to list. That's why most plumbers, old and young, use it. 
These are the facts, and they are indisputable - unless you choose too. Lol.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Cajunhiker said:


> 3 things:
> 1 - if a water heater malfunctions for any reason to the point of melting plastic, there are other dire issues to be concerned about, namely 3rd degree burns to the unlucky person in the shower.
> 2. The code says 18" of hard pipe. Best to follow the code.
> 3. PEX is better than copper in too many ways to list. That's why most plumbers, old and young, use it.
> These are the facts, and they are indisputable - unless you choose too. Lol.


Yep pex is better at absorption of poison, better at being chewed through by rodents and animals, better at failing prematurely, better at degrading when exposed to uv light,.... You're right to many to list.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

The PEX EIR found that, unlike copper pipe, outside contaminants such as pesticides, oil, gasoline, and benzene can permeate through PEX pipe into drinking water.

Several studies and articles comparing potable water pipe materials, including variants of PEX, polybutylene, polypropylene, CPVC, copper and steel, have found that PEX, at least initially, displayed the strongest biofilm formation and the strongest promotion of the growth of Legionella bacteria.

The above is from here. http://calpipes.org/ProtectingCalifornians_PEX.asp


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> The PEX EIR found that, unlike copper pipe, outside contaminants such as pesticides, oil, gasoline, and benzene can permeate through PEX pipe into drinking water.
> 
> Several studies and articles comparing potable water pipe materials, including variants of PEX, polybutylene, polypropylene, CPVC, copper and steel, have found that PEX, at least initially, displayed the strongest biofilm formation and the strongest promotion of the growth of Legionella bacteria.
> 
> The above is from here. http://calpipes.org/ProtectingCalifornians_PEX.asp


Ya ya ya....and California also says sharkbites cause cancer and birth defects :laughing:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Chadillac80 said:


> Ya ya ya....and California also says sharkbites cause cancer and birth defects :laughing:


It is not just California, there are hundreds if these reports in areas other than California. We are not talking about something that might cause harm in lab animals which they regulate for human use in fear it may do the same.

We are talking about the FACTS that pex allows poisons to leach into the potable water on a molecular level. It is a FACT that pex breaks down and fails when exposed to uv light. It is a FACT that pex oxidized when chlorine is present in the water.

Tell me how does copper allow poisons into the drinking water? Or how the sun causes copper to fail prematurely, or chlorine for that fact?

People argue that bidding a job where lex is allowed with copper you won't get the job. I say you have to sell how copper is a better choice. Lets have a look at the advantages pex has. Quick installation, can bend around corners, inexpensive. Well we know it also degrades to exposure to uv light,copper don't. Pex allows petroleum products, poisons to leach into the drinking water, copper doesn't.

My point is you show them the pros of copper over pex and you can sell a copper install. Just show them how many class action lawsuits pex has had compared to copper.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Ron , not to totally jump on the Pex wagon ( however am using both copper and pex ) but according to you Chicago is ALL copper ALL the time ! 

What are you basing your pex hatred on? A bunch of articles that are written by whoever wants to write them ?


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Cal said:


> Ron , not to totally jump on the Pex wagon ( however am using both copper and pex ) but according to you Chicago is ALL copper ALL the time !
> 
> What are you basing your pex hatred on? A bunch of articles that are written by whoever wants to write them ?


Not just articles, but research that has been done. The class action suits, not just for failure of pex and its fittings, there was a class action suit for pex leaching chemicals into the drinking water. I am basing my dislike of pex for potable water on the facts of research, the statements from the pex manufactures themselves about planning the install of pex so it will not get exposed to UV light, petroleum products, pesticides and any other danger that lurks with their products.

This is a quote from rehau technical bulletin:


> Note: RAUPEX pipes for potable water applications shall not be installed in contaminated soils or immersed in liquid chemicals. Do not
> directly spray on or allow organic (petroleum-based) chemicals such as, petroleum distillates, termiticides or pesticides to come into​contact with RAUPEX pipes, otherwise permeation of certain harmful chemicals may occur through the pipe wall.




 
I did some volunteer work at a school for the blind a while back. We installed pex for radiant heating systems, and snow melt systems. I was amazed by the stuff, and decided to do some research into it then to learn the reasons why Chicago and many of the surrounding cities say no to pex for potable water systems. What I learned amazed me, I could not believe why in the world the plumbing industry would embrace such a product for potable water.

Here is another praise pex gets, when it freezes it will not burst. But tell me how do you thaw pex? I know with copper and steel pipes I just hook up a pip thawing machine and in a short time I have flowing water.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Ok. I can see why you feel this way. However let me say this.

Sunlight isn't getting to inside a home piping.

I really can't see how petroleum products are going to get sprayed on the pipes either. 

Now granted I am speaking only about inside residential plumbing.

Copper in the ground !!


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

So shark bites cause cancer and birth defects. :shutup: Better get the word out on that...


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Proposition 65 Warning: This product contains chemicals known to the State 
of California to cause cancer or birth defects or other reproductive harm. 
Notice to Installer/Contractor: California law requires this notice be provided 
to the consumer/end user of this product

http://pinnaclesupply.com/pdf/SharkBiteInst.pdf


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> Proposition 65 Warning: This product contains chemicals known to the State
> of California to cause cancer or birth defects or other reproductive harm.
> Notice to Installer/Contractor: California law requires this notice be provided
> to the consumer/end user of this product
> ...


They put that on everything!!


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Maybe you haven't noticed this but 100 years ago only 3 out of 100 deaths were attributed to cancer. Now it's about 25 out of 100. 

I believe that our diets have a lot to do with the high cancer rates but I also know that there are several other factors. If researchers are suggesting shark bites cause cancer then we should really think twice about using them. Hell, maybe they could get banned all together.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

I agree with what you are saying but keep in mind that a hundred years ago the male life span was fifty years old compared to seventy five years today.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Cal said:


> Ok. I can see why you feel this way. However let me say this.
> 
> Sunlight isn't getting to inside a home piping.
> 
> ...


When people have a pest or insect problem they get a poison that has a petroleum base, and spray it around their home. If they have copper pipes not an issue, but if they have pex there is an issue then. 

Most pest companies have trained personal that know not to spray the pex piping or around the pex piping. Key word is most do. Homeowners have no idea what dangers they can cause spraying these items around their homes. So why even risk the danger by installing pex, just install copper and the danger level drops.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> When people have a pest or insect problem they get a poison that has a petroleum base, and spray it around their home. If they have copper pipes not an issue, but if they have pex there is an issue then.
> 
> Most pest companies have trained personal that know not to spray the pex piping or around the pex piping. Key word is most do. Homeowners have no idea what dangers they can cause spraying these items around their homes. So why even risk the danger by installing pex, just install copper and the danger level drops.


 Good point. Much to think on .


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Cal said:


> Ok. I can see why you feel this way. However let me say this.
> 
> Sunlight isn't getting to inside a home piping.
> 
> ...



In S. Florida, due to the problem with subterranean termites, a termicide is required to be sprayed on the fill before the plastic vapor barrier is placed and the concrete slab is poured.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Chadillac80 said:


> Copper is on the fast track to being obsolete in the plumbing industry. It's just like clay pipe, lead joints, galvanized pipe ect. Pex and even cpvc have completely taken over. Mainly pex. Uponor is the next best thing and that's all I install now a days. I don't feel any less of a plumber installing it either. ;-)


Clay sure looks like it's obsolete....


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Clay sure looks like it's obsolete....


If you re-read my post I stated in plumbing...mainly in a residential setting its "becoming" obsolete. I don't know of ANY plumbing company's installing the shiot. The cost and labor to install it compared to pvc is the main factor. Anybody can google and post and image of clay pipe. Your image means nothing ;-)


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Chadillac80 said:


> If you re-read my post I stated in plumbing...mainly in a residential setting its "becoming" obsolete. I don't know of ANY plumbing company's installing the shiot. The cost and labor to install it compared to pvc is the main factor. Anybody can google and post and image of clay pipe. Your image means nothing ;-)


 Let me highlight what you said.... in the quote



Chadillac80 said:


> *Copper is on the fast track to being obsolete in the plumbing industry.* *It's just like clay pipe, lead joints, galvanized pipe ect.* Pex and even cpvc have completely taken over. Mainly pex. Uponor is the next best thing and that's all I install now a days. I don't feel any less of a plumber installing it either. ;-)


Your statement there is comparing copper to clay pipe, lead joints with a clarifying statement of " *on the fast track to being obsolete "* So you did say it is already obsolete. 

The picture I posted came from a PZ member along with many more pictures of the job site that is currently underway. I would love for you to find the image I posted on google. Coming around here talking **** and stating I am posting pics found on google is an insult to me and the other PZ member. I have beatin some ass for a lot less.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

<--- throws some popcorn in the microwave

Round one ding ding!


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Chadillac80 are you even a plumber? I didn't see an intro posted from you in the intro section.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

I'm not a big fan of pex but its tough to bid repipes here when everyone is using it. 

I do use copper in walls and stub outs though. Inspector likes it, looks neat and is sturdy. But it's all pex in the crawl.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> Chadillac80 are you even a plumber? I didn't see an intro posted from you in the intro section.


He did post an introduction. 
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/calling-all-plumbers-24946/#post397443

In all fairness SR, the only clay we see down south was put in shortly after the turn of the twentieth century. It is a whole different plumbing world in your neck of the woods.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> He did post an introduction.
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/calling-all-plumbers-24946/#post397443
> 
> In all fairness SR, the only clay we see down south was put in shortly after the turn of the twentieth century. It is a whole different plumbing world in your neck of the woods.


 My point is he made a general assumption that copper, clay, leaded joints and galvanized pipe are obsolete. I am proving that copper, clay and lead joints are still alive and well. Galvanized pipe, is very rarely used but still I have seen newer homes that were plumbed in with galvanized pipe per the builder/home owner request.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Chadillac80 are you even a plumber? I didn't see an intro posted from you in the intro section.


Then you didn't look hard enough.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> My point is he made a general assumption that copper, clay, leaded joints and galvanized pipe are obsolete. I am proving that copper, clay and lead joints are still alive and well. Galvanized pipe, is very rarely used but still I have seen newer homes that were plumbed in with galvanized pipe per the builder/home owner request.


Not sure why your panties are all in a wad... Copper, clay and galvanized ARE on the fast tract to becoming obsolete down here in Texas. I clarified "in Texas" a few post up but you must have missed that just like my into. Calm down its going to be A ok buddy. If your still putting in galvanized pipe in homes...well I feel for you. The stuff is crap. As far as clay.. Same thing CRAP. This is the 21 century not 1930. But again if your still installing it MORE POWER TO YOU ;-)


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Let me highlight what you said.... in the quote
> 
> Your statement there is comparing copper to clay pipe, lead joints with a clarifying statement of " on the fast track to being obsolete " So you did say it is already obsolete.
> 
> The picture I posted came from a PZ member along with many more pictures of the job site that is currently underway. I would love for you to find the image I posted on google. Coming around here talking **** and stating I am posting pics found on google is an insult to me and the other PZ member. I have beatin some ass for a lot less.


And I'm not sure where you went to school but the statement "on the fast track to being obsolete" in no way means it is obsolete :laughing: It just means its on its way, but not there yet.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Chadillac80 said:


> Then you didn't look hard enough.


 I did went looking for it and it wasn't in proper place..


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Chadillac80 said:


> If your still putting in galvanized pipe in homes...well I feel for you


He did write per customer request. Probably an older customer too.

I had an older gentleman requesting the same thing last month.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Chadillac80 said:


> Not sure why your panties are all in a wad... Copper, clay and galvanized ARE on the fast tract to becoming obsolete down here in Texas. I clarified "in Texas" a few post up but you must have missed that just like my into. Calm down its going to be A ok buddy. If your still putting in galvanized pipe in homes...well I feel for you. The stuff is crap. As far as clay.. Same thing CRAP. This is the 21 century not 1930. But again if your still installing it MORE POWER TO YOU ;-)


 Crap.... Well as I said I can show you galvanized systems that work as good as the day it was installed 50+ years ago. I can also show you 80+ year old clay sewer systems without any roots in them, and tons of trees on the properties. 

I can also show you tons of pex failures that are less than 10 years old. And show you plastic sewer systems that have tons of roots growing in the joints that has only been in the ground for a few years.

You're the one that started this. When I proved these products are still in common use, you always come back calling tried and true products crap.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Crap.... Well as I said I can show you galvanized systems that work as good as the day it was installed 50+ years ago. I can also show you 80+ year old clay sewer systems without any roots in them, and tons of trees on the properties.
> 
> I can also show you tons of pex failures that are less than 10 years old. And show you plastic sewer systems that have tons of roots growing in the joints that has only been in the ground for a few years.
> 
> You're the ass hole that started this. When I proved these products are still in common use, you always come back calling tried and true products crap.


It's my opinion SewerRatz...that is all. Just let it go.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> I did went looking for it and it wasn't in proper place..


I posted it in the intro section...where's it supposed to go? Do I need to move it? If I go to my profile it's under intro...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> I did went looking for it and it wasn't in proper place..


I believe you are mistaken RJ. His intro is in the intro section.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Gentlemen,

Let's steer clear of personal insults and name calling.

Thank you.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

SewerRatz said:


> Crap.... Well as I said I can show you galvanized systems that work as good as the day it was installed 50+ years ago. I can also show you 80+ year old clay sewer systems without any roots in them, and tons of trees on the properties.
> 
> I can also show you tons of pex failures that are less than 10 years old. And show you plastic sewer systems that have tons of roots growing in the joints that has only been in the ground for a few years.
> 
> You're the one that started this. When I proved these products are still in common use, you always come back calling tried and true products crap.


I love clay tile sewer mains. The look on a cubs face when you pull a coupon out in one piece is priceless!


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