# Cpvc



## Hoozycoozy (Apr 26, 2011)

My company and my mentor have always preferred CPVC systems over any other and push it strongly. I do like running it and how neat you can make it look, my only problem with it is that it seems to get very brittle over time, I was wondering if anyone else has made that observation.


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Had it go brittle in sunlight and in areas of the house that saw dramatic temperature fluctuations such as a small room near a water heater. But other than that, not really... all pipe changes over the period of its life


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

It's garbage for use inside homes.


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

How many posts on pex? How many failed experiments on chemical pipe make up? Fittings? Crimping rings?
How many lawsuits on design on materials? How many times can you repackage the same thing and sell it over and over again as the next great thing?

Been using cpvc since I started this trade. Though I haven't been doing it very long, the only time I have ever seen a problem with it is when the installer doesn't know what they are doing with it.

1. Wrong glue. Flowguard gold pipe has flowguard glue. Why? Because the primer/glue bonds at a higher temp the regular primer and G.P. glue.
2. Keep it out of the sunlight. Paint it. Use latex, oil based paints will react with the pipe.
3. It is not pex. Though its semi flexible it has limits.
4. Do not directly tie it to your water heater.
5. Do not over secure your j-hooks and insulators. Pipe expands and makes popping noises if you do

As far as putting it underground. Never have, never will, Don't see a need for it. Besides I try to not have a joint in the ground on any water pipe.

But to each their own. All pipe has its advantages and disadvantages. Personally think most plumbers hate it because it is so easy to install without any special tools. Hate to tell y'all but they sell pex and all the fittings at HD. Heck makes it easier when using sharkbites. Get over it. You want to change something? Maybe its time we fought to change the availibilty of homeowners and hacks from using solvent welding. Have you ever really read the can? Should simply state "use of this product will kill you, period"
Thought it was strange, go to fergies and get a page, page and a half for MSDS but nothing at HD...


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

And make sure it was never exposed to any kind of hydrocarbons on it's ride from the factory, sitting in the supply house, at your shop, riding from the shop to the job site, on the job site (even after you have left). Once you have accomplished that, all you have to do is make sure the home owner never exposes the pipe to anything and the water pervayor doesn't accidentally get any oil in the lines and let it travel up into your pipe system.

Also make sure in the future no other trades expose the pipe to say roofing tar, or romex cable. Make sure the exterminator doesn't get any bug spray on it. Make sure no one drops anything on it or bumps into it after it gets old and brittle in a decade.

Make sure your guys don't ever leave a can of glue in freezing conditions or get any water in it. Make sure they never use too much or too little glue. Make sure that the joints don't get a debris or other contamination in them. Make sure no one dry fits any joints. Make sure no one air tests with it. Make sure no one gets any caulking on it. Make sure the pipe never freezes.

But yeah, other than that stuff, your good man :thumbsup:



plumb nutz said:


> How many posts on pex? How many failed experiments on chemical pipe make up? Fittings? Crimping rings?
> How many lawsuits on design on materials? How many times can you repackage the same thing and sell it over and over again as the next great thing?
> 
> Been using cpvc since I started this trade. Though I haven't been doing it very long, the only time I have ever seen a problem with it is when the installer doesn't know what they are doing with it.
> ...


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I like the way it freezes... :thumbup:

Mostly handihacks use it here...


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*looks great*

its what every hack from Lowes will use..

Looks great in a mobile home..... 
but I dont work on mobile homes....so its ok with me.

never get near it in a crawl space or you will live to 
regret it....

after 5 years its brittle and should only be trusted 
with a sharkbite connection to it.....

freezes and cracks long ways......

great stuff.....:yes:.


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

But again what are you going to go with? Copper will soon price you out of existence. It's a simple commodity but gold is up what ungodly percentage this year, silver 20% this year. Copper is used for everything in some fashion, the price is going up and will stay that way for a long time.
So what y'all going to keep touting what? Again your left with pex and every similar product like it. Over what 40 odd years, it has been a failure either with bad fittings, bad Crimp rings, whatever. It's only time before you see hacks using it was well where you are as they do down here.

And I'm still waiting for any of the cpvc that I have installed to fail...


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

*Crap Crap Crappity Crap*


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

And dont forget you must bevel the ends of pipe and you must put in expansion loops. And not some little 6 inch loop. Dont use pipe dope and the KBI brass to cpvc male and female adapters. And dont overtighten


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

> So what y'all going to keep touting what? Again your left with pex and every similar product like it. Over what 40 odd years, it has been a failure either with bad fittings, bad Crimp rings, whatever. It's only time before you see hacks using it was well where you are as they do down here.


 I think the issue with PEX has a lot more to do with trying to dumb down the installation/joining practices and to lessen the expense of the manufacturing process of the fittings than it does with the actual tubing.

Wirsbo/Uponor PEX has been in use in Europe for well over 30 years without many of the issues we're seeing in North America -- Then again, you won't find the abundance of manufacturers in Europe that you see in North America.


----------



## Hoozycoozy (Apr 26, 2011)

Of all the CPVC I have installed, I've never had a fitting fail until the other day, it was a 1/2" tee that cracked in one of the bends, it was about 4 years old. Just with it getting so brittle over time, I worry about the pipe completely failing given more time.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I think the issue with PEX has a lot more to do with trying to dumb down the installation/joining practices and to lessen the expense of the manufacturing process of the fittings than it does with the actual tubing.
> 
> Wirsbo/Uponor PEX has been in use in Europe for well over 30 years without many of the issues we're seeing in North America -- Then again, you won't find the abundance of manufacturers in Europe that you see in North America.


Apparently you missed reading these threads... :laughing:

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/pex-guys-fitting-choice-13327/index4/#post179338

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/re-post-wirsbo-leak-13428/


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Hoozycoozy said:


> Of all the CPVC I have installed, I've never had a fitting fail until the other day, it was a 1/2" tee that cracked in one of the bends, it was about 4 years old. Just with it getting so brittle over time, I worry about the pipe completely failing given more time.


 The problem I see with CPVC is that when the tubing fails, it fails catastrophically.

In all the different products I've used over the years, I have never see the kind of longitude failures I've seen in CPVC -- I've seen it split along its entire length.

Shearing where it's bound too tight is a fairly common failure point as well, that's generally an installation error, though, but still very common.

I've also seen a number of failures that can be traced back to the bonding of CPVC to brass (male and female adapters), I'm not sure what the issue is, but failures generated by the separation of the two materials is fairly common as well.


----------



## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

I see in CPVC a decent future for service and repipe work. It ranks right up there with PB. It is crap pipe. I get at least 2 calls a week for this poop pipe don't see a bit of difference on installation being a factor in its failure. Lengths fittings transitions it doesn't matter poop is poop it all rots and provides me with an income. Crap pipe. Darn glue set times leave homes only to have to drive back hours later to test poop pipe. Sets four hours at better than 70 degrees charge the line slow to 55 psi 20 minutes later poop pipe blows apart darn poop pipe. This crap pipe has led me down a dark aisle in the orange store for the Sharkbite savior.


----------



## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Apparently you missed reading these threads... :laughing:
> 
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/pex-guys-fitting-choice-13327/index4/#post179338
> 
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/re-post-wirsbo-leak-13428/


That's all you got? Really?!

We all have bad stories with CPVC, but do we all have problems with Wirsbo/Uponor? I'm not saying PEX. I'm saying Wirsbo/Uponor.

Fact is it is the better choice among plastic piping systems. I know I would use copper if it would last. Here in Fl copper does not last. The only answer is a plastic system.

You won't find Wirsbo/Uponor at any HO shopping store around here.

The hacks are using Cpvc because they can get it. The answer is limit access to plumbing supplies.

I can remember when people called a plumber for repairs. Now we compete with all the hacks. Code enforcement is on my speed dial, but I have yet to see results.

Done


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

This one is a good read :whistling2:
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f6/c-p-v-c-flow-guard-gold-7516/


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Another good one: http://www.plumbingzone.com/f22/cpvc-failure-11994/


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

dont we have enuff CPVC HATE threads 

cant we just get along.....no


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> dont we have enuff CPVC HATE threads
> 
> cant we just get along.....no



They see me replacing the defective product -- They be hatin'.


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I think the issue with PEX has a lot more to do with trying to dumb down the installation/joining practices and to lessen the expense of the manufacturing process of the fittings than it does with the actual tubing.
> 
> Wirsbo/Uponor PEX has been in use in Europe for well over 30 years without many of the issues we're seeing in North America -- Then again, you won't find the abundance of manufacturers in Europe that you see in North America.



They have all kinds of issues with the product in Europe, but Europe lacks the tort law system that we have in this country, and thus you don't hear about these problems. This is why manufacturers use Europe to test product before attempting to sell them in this country.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Killertoiletspider said:


> They have all kinds of issues with the product in Europe, but Europe lacks the tort law system that we have in this country, and thus you don't hear about these problems. This is why manufacturers use Europe to test product before attempting to sell them in this country.


 Y'all are going to have to substantiate that claim before I deign to respond to it.

IOW, PPOSTFU.

Balls in your court.

HAND.


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Y'all are going to have to substantiate that claim before I deign to respond to it.
> 
> IOW, PPOSTFU.
> 
> ...


I have no clue what any of that is supposed to mean, and I really don't care.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Pipecommandor (Apr 18, 2011)

Killertoiletspider said:


> I have no clue what any of that is supposed to mean, and I really don't care.
> 
> Have a nice day.


Always questioned the brittleness cpvc myself, I just had to learn to use a metal blade when cutting the pipe, brand new pipe is never a problem ???


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Killertoiletspider said:


> I have no clue what any of that is supposed to mean, and I really don't care.
> 
> Have a nice day.


 Obviously you got some of it.

As for having a nice day -- Thanks for the sentiment, but I've already made other plans.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

gitnerdun said:


> That's all you got? Really?!
> 
> We all have bad stories with CPVC, but do we all have problems with Wirsbo/Uponor? I'm not saying PEX. I'm saying Wirsbo/Uponor.
> 
> ...


I'm simply saying that Uponor PEX is not the miracle cure it was quoted as being previously in this thread and others.

It has had its fair share of failures as well.

Simply stated the best material on a given job depends on many factors that determine its suitability for the job and how long a service life the installation will have.

We watched as Kitec, Rehau, Zurn, Uponor and others ran into problems with dezincification of the brass fittings. In Las Vegas according to Mark, Copper pipe would be unaffected by the water that eats brass.

Then we go to your own state of Florida where there are areas where a new copper pipe service installation could be expected to fail in less than 10 years of service while a county or, 2 away it could last a lifetime. Also according to Ken, dezincification of brass is not a factor...

What it all boils down to is you have to select the material which is best suited to the conditions in your area and ensure a long service life of the plumbing you install. There is no one size fits all or, magic bullet.

But I can't for the life of me see where CPVC fits in anywhere.... :laughing:


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

This is what Cresline thinks about their product.....not enough to stand behind it. Ive seen extreme brittleness under a house at 10 yrs...no UV.....had my 1st pinhole about 6mo. back ( 3 yr old house) and have used it extensively in new work ( when it was going) like most of Florida...and am looking forward to the service work when it goes bad after the 10 year errors and omissions waymark.....


----------

