# Navien in deep shiz



## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

Sounds like all the heat exchangers, and I mean _all_ the heat exchangers made by Navien are leaking carbon monoxide out of the head seal. Mikey Pipes on YouTube is opening up a billion dollar class action lawsuit on them, and according to him seven people have died. 

He was the main Navien guy up in NY from what I understand. He brought this to their attention and they dropped him as one of their service providers. 

I used to be into Navien, but started doing more Rinnais lately. Think I'll stick with that option. 

Any of you guys heard about this?


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Haven't heard anything.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

So....How far back does this problem go??? 
1 year or 5 years back ....????


----------



## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

Master Mark said:


> So....How far back does this problem go???
> 1 year or 5 years back ....????


Sounding like since the start


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

If people have died and it’s proven it’s from carbon monoxide then navien is a cooked goose,stick a fork in them they are done


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Mikey Pipes said:


> Google it. I learned of the deaths from attorneys representing family’s of the victims. Lawsuits have been filed already.











READ BEFORE POSTING: Welcome To PlumbingZone.com


PlumbingZone is a site for Plumbing Professionals Only, who are interested in promoting and improving the Plumbing trade. We want to take a moment to welcome you to the community! We truly do look forward to getting to know you and interacting with you in the forums. :) Please take a moment...




www.plumbingzone.com













PlumbingZone.com Is For Plumbing Professionals Only


PlumbingZone is a site for Plumbing Professionals Only, who are interested in promoting and improving the Plumbing trade. In our community the term "Plumbing Professional" refers to the following persons: Master Plumber, Plumbing Contractor, Journeyman Plumber, Pipe Fitter, Apprentice...




www.plumbingzone.com





No into by Monday, one week ban to think about it.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Mikey Pipes said:


> Google it. I learned of the deaths from attorneys representing family’s of the victims. Lawsuits have been filed already.



You don't even need Google to see what it takes to join this site. Read the rules then we respond.


----------



## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

Mikey Pipes said:


> 100% facts. All their water tube heat exchangers leak with soapy water. A proven test for a century. Navien not only dropped my company but sued in arbitration under their Navien Rewards program - where I was awarded $700 for several installs. Classic whistleblower case. They want to silence me.


If you want to have any hope of success, the first thing that you need to do is to stop talking about it, to anyone except your lawyers, but for the love of dog, sure as hell not on the internet. If your claims are not upheld by the courts, it could go much worse for you than just losing.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

mipi said:


> so i guess thats it, huh?


Forum rule violation. Hammer time.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Banned twice, wow. I've never pulled that off.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

For the love of Jesus christ..... 
you would think it would be eazy peazy to just do a simple introduction of yourself 
on that page and just follow the rules without feeling you are too big for your britches to do this...
and without turning it into some kind of crazy pizzing contest....... 

.I just dont get it....

also I would love to find the link on google about folks dieing from a Navien tankless unit..
it would be of interest to me.


----------



## Blue2 (12 mo ago)

Master Mark said:


> For the love of Jesus christ.....
> you would think it would be eazy peazy to just do a simple introduction of yourself
> on that page and just follow the rules without feeling you are too big for your britches to do this...
> and without turning it into some kind of crazy pizzing contest.......
> ...








Navien Sued Over Deaths Caused by Carbon Monoxide from its Tankless Water Heater - Abraham, Watkins, Nichols, Agosto, Aziz & Stogner


The estate of a family who died of carbon-monoxide poisoning in May 2019 recently filed suit against Navien Inc., the manufacturer of the NPE-240A tankless water heater that had been installed in the family’s home just six months earlier. Tankless water heaters, also known as demand-type or...




www.abrahamwatkins.com


----------



## bayside500_822 (Nov 23, 2021)

is this the same guy, he is kind of annoying if ya ask me



https://www.youtube.com/c/PipedoctorNet/videos


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> For the love of Jesus christ.....
> you would think it would be eazy peazy to just do a simple introduction of yourself
> on that page and just follow the rules without feeling you are too big for your britches to do this...
> and without turning it into some kind of crazy pizzing contest.......
> ...



I've installed Naviens for years and never heard of this. Wonder what the chances are that the heater was installed improperly...................


----------



## Plumb N Plumber (Jan 3, 2022)

Navien is junk IMO
I’ve pulled them out as young as 3 years old. Heat exchanger leaking water at welds, those silly plastic 90s with the metal clips go all the time
Rheem or Rinnai


----------



## Blue2 (12 mo ago)

Plumb N Plumber said:


> Navien is junk IMO
> I’ve pulled them out as young as 3 years old. Heat exchanger leaking water at welds, those silly plastic 90s with the metal clips go all the time
> Rheem or Rinnai


I’ll agree with rinnai, rheem takes up space at the dump imo.


----------



## Plumb N Plumber (Jan 3, 2022)

Navien is junk IMO
I’ve pulled them out as young as 3 years old. Head exchanger leaking water at welds, those silly plastic 90s with the metal clips go all the time
Rheem or Rinnai


Blue2 said:


> I’ll agree with rinnai, rheem takes up space at the dump imo.


i love me some Rheem, minus their poor choice in switching gas control valve manufacturers last year (for the short time)


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Rheem (used to be) someone else's design with their name on it. Rennai is always 5-10 years behind the curve. They didn't even know what a condensing boiler was and I had been installing condensing boiler Noritz and Eternals for years. I looked at the poor plumbers at the plumbing counter trying to calculate how many pieces of Rennai vent pipe to buy and just laughed. Rennai FINALLY started putting their control screen on the unit. How many dumb control units are hung on a screw around the world? Rennai still using copper heat exchangers? 

Rheem forgot to program their heaters to control their recirc pump if you install 2 units together. Try telling that to the customer that's already paid $10,000 for a dual units with recirc pump package. The local Rheem rep ate some crow trying to answer to the very wealthy owner. Out went the brand new Rheems and in we came with new Naviens.

We install 2-3 Naviens a month, I usually keep 2 of each (240A and 240S) in stock. Not one failure in several years of only Naviens.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> .......
> 
> We install 2-3 Naviens a month, I usually keep 2 of each (240A and 240S) in stock. Not one failure in several years of only Naviens.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


And if you can believe it, your experience is just as valid as those here who have had nothing but issues with them. Everyone has different water. It's amazing the differences accross the country in the way we all plumb.


----------



## Blue2 (12 mo ago)

skoronesa said:


> And if you can believe it, your experience is just as valid as those here who have had nothing but issues with them. Everyone has different water. It's amazing the differences accross the country in the way we all plumb.


It is truly interesting.


----------



## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Rheem doesn't use another company for there Tankless. Paloma makes them, Paloma owns Rheem. There tankless are straight up Japan made, and rock solid. Installed a ton of them and have had zero call backs.


----------



## Plumb N Plumber (Jan 3, 2022)

skoronesa said:


> And if you can believe it, your experience is just as valid as those here who have had nothing but issues with them. Everyone has different water. It's amazing the differences accross the country in the way we all plumb.


idk If I trust a pornstar to mediate this w/o stating what you install


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> And if you can believe it, your experience is just as valid as those here who have had nothing but issues with them. Everyone has different water. It's amazing the differences accross the country in the way we all plumb.



Agree on the above.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> I've installed Naviens for years and never heard of this. Wonder what the chances are that the heater was installed improperly...................


if the truth be known the Navian Tankless was probably half assed installed in the house by the homeowner or some jack leg who
did not know what he was doing.... 

Almost every type of heater gives off small amounts of fumes around the venting....


----------



## Tpelletier11387 (11 mo ago)

Hello I’m Tom from CT, originally MA and In mikes defense I’ve seen the same thing on these units gases leaking from the top of heat exchanger, oil residue on plastic both on bottom and top of heat exchanger and very high CO levels, multiple design flaws with them


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tpelletier11387 said:


> Hello I’m Tom from CT, originally MA and In mikes defense I’ve seen the same thing on these units gases leaking from the top of heat exchanger, oil residue on plastic both on bottom and top of heat exchanger and very high CO levels, multiple design flaws with them


Please adhere to forum rules.









READ BEFORE POSTING: Welcome To PlumbingZone.com


PlumbingZone is a site for Plumbing Professionals Only, who are interested in promoting and improving the Plumbing trade. We want to take a moment to welcome you to the community! We truly do look forward to getting to know you and interacting with you in the forums. :) Please take a moment...




www.plumbingzone.com














PlumbingZone.com Is For Plumbing Professionals Only


PlumbingZone is a site for Plumbing Professionals Only, who are interested in promoting and improving the Plumbing trade. In our community the term "Plumbing Professional" refers to the following persons: Master Plumber, Plumbing Contractor, Journeyman Plumber, Pipe Fitter, Apprentice...




www.plumbingzone.com


----------



## Plumb N Plumber (Jan 3, 2022)

Tpelletier11387 said:


> Hello I’m Tom from CT, originally MA and In mikes defense I’ve seen the same thing on these units gases leaking from the top of heat exchanger, oil residue on plastic both on bottom and top of heat exchanger and very high CO levels, multiple design flaws with them


 the dude has Navien branded on his truck… Rheem 4 life


----------



## Tpelletier11387 (11 mo ago)

Plumb N Plumber said:


> the dude has Navien branded on his truck… Rheem 4 life


That’s about to go away soon I’m sure


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tpelletier11387 said:


> That’s about to go away soon I’m sure


Last chance before the ban hammer. Abide by forum rules.


----------



## Tpelletier11387 (11 mo ago)

OpenSights said:


> Last chance before the ban hammer. Abide by forum rules.


I just joined, where are the forum rules? Please share


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> Please adhere to forum rules.
> 
> READ BEFORE POSTING: Welcome To PlumbingZone.com[/B][/SIZE][/URL]
> 
> ...





Tpelletier11387 said:


> I just joined, where are the forum rules? Please share


He already shared the links to the rules in his previous post.

*
CLICK THE LINK BELOW*









READ BEFORE POSTING: Welcome To PlumbingZone.com


PlumbingZone is a site for Plumbing Professionals Only, who are interested in promoting and improving the Plumbing trade. We want to take a moment to welcome you to the community! We truly do look forward to getting to know you and interacting with you in the forums. :) Please take a moment...




www.plumbingzone.com


----------



## steve.ludwig (4 mo ago)

dhal22 said:


> I've installed Naviens for years and never heard of this. Wonder what the chances are that the heater was installed improperly...................


 It was installed by a homeowner who didn’t glue the pipes


----------



## steve.ludwig (4 mo ago)

dhal22 said:


> I've installed Naviens for years and never heard of this. Wonder what the chances are that the heater was installed improperly...................


Installed incorrectly by a homeowner. Didn’t even glue the pvc


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

steve.ludwig said:


> Installed incorrectly by a homeowner. Didn’t even glue the pvc


Other than one who doesn’t bother to read forum rules and likes to piss on our lawn, who the fuc! are you?


----------



## steve.ludwig (4 mo ago)

OpenSights said:


> Other than one who doesn’t bother to read forum rules and likes to piss on our lawn, who the fuc! are you?


 I read the rules. I can’t comment on inaccurate information?


----------



## steve.ludwig (4 mo ago)

steve.ludwig said:


> I read the rules. I can’t comment on inaccurate information?


And how the fuc am I pissing on your lawn?


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

steve.ludwig said:


> And how the fuc am I pissing on your lawn?


No intro. You haven’t vetted yourself. How do we know you aren’t a HO, handyhack or some diy piece of garbage? Pretty simple really. You obviously have not read the forum rules. 24 hours to correct your mistakes. Standard timeframe for me.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

steve.ludwig said:


> I read the rules. I can’t comment on inaccurate information?



You cannot. Must be a plumber. Other than that gtfooh.


----------



## steve.ludwig (4 mo ago)

OpenSights said:


> No intro. You haven’t vetted yourself. How do we know you aren’t a HO, handyhack or some diy piece of garbage? Pretty simple really. You obviously have not read the forum rules. 24 hours to correct your mistakes. Standard timeframe for me.


I’m good. I’m a member of enough plumbing groups without being mf’d on joining.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

steve.ludwig said:


> I’m good. I’m a member of enough plumbing groups without being mf’d on joining.


Cool. Be a renegade rule breaker. That doesn’t fly with my inspectors.


----------



## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

I’ll never touch another Navien product again. Period.

I have a customer that had problems and it ended up being a manufacturing/design defect. 

They knew it could be the defect but didn’t disclose that fact until 2 weeks into the process. They sent part after part even though the parts check out good. 

The worst tech support ive ever had from any product……even Microsoft innthe 90’s. 🤣

I ended up replacing it with a Rinnai.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> company
> I’ll never touch another Navien product again. Period.
> 
> I have a customer that had problems and it ended up being a manufacturing/design defect.
> ...


Navien only for my company. Rarely an issue and we install 25 or so a year. Worst issue was found to be defective grounding electrical issue in the residence, Navien spent several hours working with us on that. I would guess we have 200 or so installed in the last few years, all working fine. Ymmv.


----------



## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

dhal22 said:


> Navien only for my company. Rarely an issue and we install 25 or so a year. Worst issue was found to be defective grounding electrical issue in the residence, Navien spent several hours working with us on that. I would guess we have 200 or so installed in the last few years, all working fine. Ymmv.


Some Naviens had stainless steel mesh that was spot welded to the top of the combustion chamber.

the stainless welds would break and the mesh would interfere with ignition.

So after two weeks of troubleshooting and then sending several parts the tech support buy asked me if the mesh had any sag to it……

Well of course it did. He then tells me that’s a known defect.

Why didn’t they ask me to check that first ?

I’ll tell you why…….they suck.

Every time I called tech support we had to start over with all the info…….they didn’t assign case numbers. Ridiculous…….

That’s my mileage. It’s not acceptable and it shouldn’t have happened and it’ll never happen again. ✌

I don’t expect you to change brands, I’m just telling what they did to me and my customer.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I've never experienced that issue.


----------



## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

dhal22 said:


> I've never experienced that issue.


NPE-210S was the model number.

I just looked up the emails between Navien and myself.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I sold 2 npe240s today. Sold an npe180 last week. I think one of my guys sold a 240 as well today.


----------



## captbonzo (21 d ago)

dhal22 said:


> Haven't heard anything.


live under a rock?


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

captbonzo said:


> live under a rock?


Like those who don’t follow forum rules?


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

captbonzo said:


> live under a rock?



My company will do about $2 million in revenue this year. I need to check but maybe $100,000 of that in Navien installs. So maybe 40 installs this year and no issues. Less last year, maybe 25. No call backs at all. Swapped a computer board out maybe 3 years ago but thats about it. 

I'm ordering 4 more units tomorrow. I like to keep 2 each of the larger models in stock.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Actually 40 installs would be $200,000+/- in revenue.


----------

