# anyone ever install one of these????



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I get a call last night from a contractor that has got to deal with a gas station that was put in 5 years ago by *Mr Patel *who did not get the proper permits or have the tanks inspected when the threw them down into the ground.... 

If Mr Patel would have done it right to start with and had everything certified by the state he could have gotten a 2mil dollar liability insurance policy from the state for future issues... but nooooooooooooo you just cant do things that way.....:no::no::blink:


....now a couple of the tanks are leaking badly into the storm sewers and basically it is polluting and stinking up the businesses 
up and down the street with gas odors...... 

they want to remedy the situation as best possible until the lawsuits are all settled and they shut down the station and totally dig everything up and re-do the work......:yes::yes:......

I believe I am going to have to give them a price for an* in line sewer trap* in the buildings to stop the gas smells from leaching up into the basements of these 100year old buildings..

They have turned off a couple of the tanks and the smell has gone away so its gonna be a huge lawsuit for Mr Patel... My guess is he will go back to India.......:laughing:


never done an in line sewer trap before..
..
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...d=0ahUKEwja9c-S5ZDLAhXL1CYKHRNtCL0QMwgkKAMwAw


..


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

put clean outs on both sides of the trap and install a vent on the out going side of the trap.


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

justme said:


> put clean outs on both sides of the trap and install a vent on the out going side of the trap.



 *Woah!! Inline running trap, is that not a house trap. House traps require a fresh air inlet -- that serves two purposes [ventilates the sewer through the vent piping and relieves the air trapped between the trap and the body of waste coming down.] And that would have to be on the inlet side of the trap.*


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *Woah!! Inline running trap, is that not a house trap. House traps require a fresh air inlet -- that serves two purposes [ventilates the sewer through the vent piping and relieves the air trapped between the trap and the body of waste coming down.] And that would have to be on the inlet side of the trap.*


 You know more about house traps than I do , but would the trap not already be vented by the house fixture vents on the house side? Would a vent not be required on the city side do to a trap being installed between the house and city sewer?


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Drain the tanks and shut him done until the dust settles. Then, either bulldoze the place or replace the tanks at his expense.


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

justme said:


> You know more about house traps than I do , but would the trap not already be vented by the house fixture vents on the house side? Would a vent not be required on the city side do to a trap being installed between the house and city sewer?


No, trap venting has no effect in this case it's the body [slug] of water coming down the pipe that must be relieved or the trap water will stop the flush.

I'm not the bible on this I'm just talking about experience on this in this locality. I have seen the fresh air get blocked and the sewer will not flush until the fresh air piping is also cleared. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=hou...ei=z-nNVuysA8TReL7UjZgI#imgrc=ODUuZCxNEjcpKM:


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

thanks for the advice...I expected to install a vent on the
upside of the trap...... just dealing with seriously old funkey stuff

maybe I will take pictures of the dungeon basement I will be looking
at tomorrow afternoon and post them..... I expect that the drain goes out a few times from the building .........who knows....


eventually after the lawsuits have settled they will probably tear the place
down and start over ..... this will cost Mr Patel a whole lot of rupees.....:laughing:.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Every house and building in my area has one, its code ...here is a picture of the set up..the fresh air at the trap does 2 things, when waste water comes down it relieves the back pressure and after the waste water has gone through the trap the fesh air allows the sewer and stack in the house to vent gases out the roof..


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Every house and building in my area has one, its code ...here is a picture of the set up..the fresh air at the trap does 2 things, when waste water comes down it relieves the back pressure and after the waste water has gone through the trap the fesh air allows the sewer and stack in the house to vent gases out the roof..













You're diagram is wrong.....there are no NYC rats in the picture.....:laughing:


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Keep it all outside with a vented running yard trap.









You can also lay a wye & 1/8 bend on its back, a street 45 in the run, pipe nipple plus hub depth, regular 45 to level out, small nipple, then reverse it back up with a close nipple between the 45, so your outlet is lower than your inlet.

The 4 - 45's make the trap with a vent on both sides. keeps from any potential double trapping, all odors outside.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> thanks for the advice...I expected to install a vent on the
> upside of the trap...... just dealing with seriously old funkey stuff
> 
> maybe I will take pictures of the dungeon basement I will be looking
> ...












Mr. Habeeb might have the US EPA tapping him on the shoulder since gasoline is toxic. All the rupees in India might not be enough to clean up this superfund mess. The contaminated soil and the old rusty tanks are all toxic waste and have to be excavated and disposed of according to EPA guidelines.

I worked for a guy in NY when I was {18} who installed underground gasoline storage tanks. One job we were in involved leaky underground tanks. I was told that all the soil was sent to Edison, NJ to be burned in a furnace and that the ash and soot that was left over, was then put into {55} gallon drums and shipped to a South Carolina landfill.

Mark, better do this job CWO. Cash with order. Not even COD. I'd get paid up front before Mr. Habeeb has a chance to book passage to India.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Mr. Habeeb might have the US EPA tapping him on the shoulder since gasoline is toxic. All the rupees in India might not be enough to clean up this superfund mess. The contaminated soil and the old rusty tanks are all toxic waste and have to be excavated and disposed of according to EPA guidelines.
> 
> I worked for a guy in NY when I was {18} who installed underground gasoline storage tanks. One job we were in involved leaky underground tanks. I was told that all the soil was sent to Edison, NJ to be burned in a furnace and that the ash and soot that was left over, was then put into {55} gallon drums and shipped to a South Carolina landfill.
> 
> Mark, better do this job CWO. Cash with order. Not even COD. I'd get paid up front before Mr. Habeeb has a chance to book passage to India.



Thanks for the advice... the work is being done by the land owner as a post-preventative because the guy has a bunch of vacant property nearby that could also be getting contaminated too and he was wanting to develop it and do whatever needs to be done under "damage control".....before the lawsuits hit the fan...

so I would guess its gonna get real crappy and nasty soon....considering the gas station is only 5 years old and the tanks are totally new ones its going to turn out to be * incompetence by Mr Patel....*

I have been told that they were not happy with some other plumbers fix on a few houses already and I am willing to bet that they installed auto air vents on those house traps instead of a legit vent out the roof or into the stack.....


all this sends up a red flag too.... I need to know what they are not happy about and who got paid and who did not.....

I dont want to be paid in rupees either. and I dont really need to get myself into the middle of troubles .:no: ....


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> You're diagram is wrong.....there are no NYC rats in the picture.....:laughing:


I use to do a/c and refrigeration with a guy in manhattan during my college days ...the rats wouldnt move even if you were sawsalling around them..they were big as cats,,but in long island where I do most of my plumbing, the raccoons and possums are the norm..


----------



## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Every house and building in my area has one, its code ...here is a picture of the set up..the fresh air at the trap does 2 things, when waste water comes down it relieves the back pressure and after the waste water has gone through the trap the fesh air allows the sewer and stack in the house to vent gases out the roof..



Life would be so wonderful if we had anything like that here.

It's amazing how common sense and technique vary from region
to region.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Plumbus said:


> Drain the tanks and shut him done until the dust settles. Then, either bulldoze the place or replace the tanks at his expense.


This is the best solution to this situation,I would not put these running traps on these houses,just askin for trouble


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I just went down into this hell hole today and basically
there were at least 3 open 3 inch lines in this basement with no plugs in the clean outs... 

I told these dumb asses that it might not smell so bad in
the basement if they simply plugged up the lines like the should be doing
and I was told that its been line this way for years and years.... ...

I always wondered why the place had a funkey odor about it
the sewer gas alone in the basement gives this hardware store a more pungent smell that they are going for I guess.... good greif.....:blink::blink:


I am not gonna need a running trap, 
I might have to install some sump pits

just common sense is required on this one..

..


----------



## bobtheplummer (Sep 29, 2012)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Every house and building in my area has one, its code ...here is a picture of the set up..the fresh air at the trap does 2 things, when waste water comes down it relieves the back pressure and after the waste water has gone through the trap the fesh air allows the sewer and stack in the house to vent gases out the roof..


Shows you the difference in State codes. In Maryland we take the things out and trash em.Been causing problems for over 120 years.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

bobtheplummer said:


> Shows you the difference in State codes. In Maryland we take the things out and trash em.Been causing problems for over 120 years.


what kind of problems?


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> I just went down into this hell hole today and basically
> there were at least 3 open 3 inch lines in this basement with no plugs in the clean outs...
> 
> I told these dumb asses that it might not smell so bad in
> ...


I thought you might find something odd like this,makes sense about the smell now,heck they were smelling sewer gas and the idiots thought it was gasoline:laughing:::laughing::laughing:

Good find!!


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> I thought you might find something odd like this,makes sense about the smell now,heck they were smelling sewer gas and the idiots thought it was gasoline:laughing:::laughing::laughing:
> 
> Good find!!




I dont know if you would call this a good find or not....


there is still a gasoline issue going on due to the leaking tanks next door,,,, Its just simple common sense that you dont leave the lines wide open down in the basement......They have just gotten used to the sewer gas smell in the place over the years......but the strong gasoline fumes took it to a whole new level:laughing::laughing:. 

I would like to have seen some clown throw a match down that sewer line
on a strong smelling day and watch the concussion go off in that sewer line and blow the water out of all the toilets for about a half block..... :laughing:

If they just plug everything up and add some sump pits to catch the common surface water it will probably 100% completely solve their problems...


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> I dont know if you would call this a good find or not....
> 
> 
> there is still a gasoline issue going on due to the leaking tanks next door,,,, Its just simple common sense that you dont leave the lines wide open down in the basement......They have just gotten used to the sewer gas smell in the place over the years......but the strong gasoline fumes took it to a whole new level:laughing::laughing:.
> ...


I bet they will never do this:no:


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> I bet they will never do this:no:



I am not too interested in it so I will bid it for what I think is high... they have another 6 houses to do down the street too...
breaking up concrets and digging sump pits in hell holes is not high on my list of jobs I long to do ......


----------



## celtic1 (Dec 16, 2008)

*Big mistake*

" AS IT STARTS, SO IT GOES " Run for Your life Brother !!


----------



## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

sparky said:


> I thought you might find something odd like this,makes sense about the smell now,heck they were smelling sewer gas and the idiots thought it was gasoline:laughing:::laughing::laughing:
> 
> Good find!!


I read that the gasoline was going into storm drains. Are the buildings attached inside to city storm drains? We have a few rare old combos left, but they are ultimately attached to the city sewer or septic tank.

Maybe the NYC rats are the problem, Mark. Shoot the battards before they eat what's left of your sanity.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I hate whole house traps. Maybe new they are fine, but every one I have found makes things worse. Besides, it's hell trying to get a snake through when it's the only option.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> I hate whole house traps. Maybe new they are fine, but every one I have found makes things worse. Besides, it's hell trying to get a snake through when it's the only option.


how do house traps make things worse? they are suppose to have a large cleanout just after the trap street side for clearing the main...


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> how do house traps make things worse? they are suppose to have a large cleanout just after the trap street side for clearing the main...


Like I said, new I'm sure they are great, but when the street cleanout is half covered in concrete. Or it's just outside the house covered with a bush they don't want you digging up. Or taking the screw cap out means apply enough force to crack the old rusted thing. I'm sure there are 1 or 2 more situations I have run into I am forgetting. 

Don't get me wrong, It's a great Idea, It's just after 80 years they usually don't function right for one reason or another. There was a couple times when I have seen them stop tampons or wipes or whatever from going out of the house and getting stuck in a much worse pipe.

Do they make a pvc cleanout cap sized the same as the old brass ones? I'd loved to start replacing them. Usually I put them back in with lots of ttape so if I come back they are easy to get out, but that first time out is the worst when it was last pulled 20 years ago and put back with no dope.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Like I said, new I'm sure they are great, but when the street cleanout is half covered in concrete. Or it's just outside the house covered with a bush they don't want you digging up. Or taking the screw cap out means apply enough force to crack the old rusted thing. I'm sure there are 1 or 2 more situations I have run into I am forgetting.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, It's a great Idea, It's just after 80 years they usually don't function right for one reason or another. There was a couple times when I have seen them stop tampons or wipes or whatever from going out of the house and getting stuck in a much worse pipe.agreed the old brass caps do get stuck in time, whenever I do house trap ill wrap the threads with teflon and pipe dope to help keep em spinning..
> 
> Do they make a pvc cleanout cap sized the same as the old brass ones? I'd loved to start replacing them. Usually I put them back in with lots of ttape so if I come back they are easy to get out, but that first time out is the worst when it was last pulled 20 years ago and put back with no dope.


they make lead caps that you just pound in place of the old brass ones you break out, if the threads are good, I dont see why you couldnt replace them with pvc plugs if they are the same size, or rubber test plugs...


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Yeah, I carry the lead plugs in all sizes, but they don't always make a good seal and I don't want a clog to make 10' of water pressure and blow one out spilling into the basement. If it was outdoors that would be fine but I have seen two traps outside in this area, they both have issues freezing. besides, they are one time use. I rarely use the lead plugs.

The compression plugs are my go to, I stock two styles in all sizes. Sometimes when the hub inner is a weird fit for the compression plug I will also put a 6" jim cap over the hub. It usually requires swapping the wing nut for a regular nut and once I had to cut the bolt a little shorter but for peace of mind it is worth it.

I keep a 1/2" bit and key holesaw for removing brass caps, 1/2 the time that's how I get them out. It would just be nice to use a cheap pvc screw cap over an expensive plug for the customers sake.


----------

