# The routes to becoming a plumber. Basic question...



## supersonicplumb (May 30, 2018)

This clarification question is super basic, truly all apologies ahead of time for my lack of ability to figure this out.

It seems like there are basically two routes to becoming a journeyman plumber(?):

1) become an apprentice with a union and complete the requisite number of hours, pass the journeyman's exam. (Is the only way to become an apprentice through a union?)
You are easier to hire on if you have a year or so experience as an apprentice with a union. With a year's experience as an apprentice you aren't completely green and will be able to hit the ground running once employed.​
2) become a plumber trainee through the state and work under a journeyman/ specialty plumber, take continuing education classes at a trade school/ community college, complete and keep track of requisite number of hours, pass the journeyman's exam.

Becoming a trainee with a plumbing company is hard as most companies don't see the value of taking on a "project" that will require them to train from the ground up and track hours.​
Unions pay better than private companies as an apprentice (vs. trainee) and as a journeyman.

Learning the trade through an apprenticeship in a union will prepare you better for new construction work (as they are the only ones with enough labor to take on large jobs), but on the service side, private companies dominate. 

Sources:

https://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Apprenticeship/Become/

https://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Plumbing/Certification/PlumberTrainReq/

Really appreciate any clarification anyone can provide here.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

You also have to decide early on if you want to stay in one area or like me did them all, Commercial/institutional, Industrial pipe fitter, gas and oil, heating, pipe line, high rise condos and now residential service.

I took on every job that came along from the union. Sure you may not be the best in one spot but after a while fellow tradesmen will envy your vast knowledge and abilities.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

supersonicplumb said:


> This clarification question is super basic, truly all apologies ahead of time for my lack of ability to figure this out.
> 
> It seems like there are basically two routes to becoming a journeyman plumber(?):
> 
> ...


I won't say how I know this, but........ in terms of going the route of working under a journeyman, there isn't much of a hoot given as far as tracking hours goes.

It's unfortunate, but the way these training agencies are set up, it really is in the plumbing shop's best interest to get their apprentices through the program as quickly as possible (especially if they intend on keeping you around) It costs them money to be a training agent, and they lose their butts teaching you for the first couple of years, or more if the apprentice doesn't catch on.

Obviously I'm not saying that a shop is going to have you doing nothing but DWV for your entire apprenticeship and then sign off that you were doing gas lines and water lines, etc. There's definitely a line there, but for the most part, tracking the hours is the apprentices responsibility. There's a certain degree of 'be as honest as possible without spending 10 years in the program.

One of the categories when I was going through was soldering. Somewhere along the lines of 800 hours by the end IIRC.

There aren't a lot of people doing that much soldering anymore.


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## supersonicplumb (May 30, 2018)

Would you recommend going the union route (apprenticeship) over going with a private shop (trainee)? The advantage being better training and improved job qualifications? 

Joining a union seems like a larger commitment to begin with (which is compensated with better pay as an apprentice)? 

Are there advantages to working with a private company?

Do private companies need a training program, or does simply working under a journeyman suffice for the 6000+ hours needed to take J-Level exam?

Thank you for your help!


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I don't know who schooling works for you guys but us its 1800 hours plumbing/heating school if you do any new construction. The course is approved by the government and those hours count towards your apprenticeship.

By working Union you will have to do proper plumbing on big jobs. You will need to know the code and read plans and iso's. 

Over here in residential service and reno's it's a free for all, no need to go to school do the worst you can so the boss can make money. Who cares about the code. pizza delivery one day and hack plumber the next.

I'm not saying it's all like that but it's to show the difference. I'd do with higher education. You have more possibilities and certificates that way if you want to apply somewhere else you have tickets in your pocket. Don't take the lazy route.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

What I’m about to say is in no way intended to put unions or those who are union members.

The reason I wouldn’t go union, especially starting out you just just never know when your next job will be when things get slow. Sure, better pay, benefits... 

I don’t know what it’s like where you are but things are hopping here. Union and nonunion. When the economy slides unions are less busy. I’m the type of person who has to be working and not waiting for work. However I also enjoy my time off. Years of hard work gives you that privilege.

There’s good and bad on both sides of the coin. My recommendation is either or. Any opportunity is an opportunity to get your foot in the door to a good hard way of life. 

I’m a part time drain cleaner, part time apprentice getting ready to buy a vacation home up north.


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## supersonicplumb (May 30, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> What I’m about to say is in no way intended to put unions or those who are union members.
> 
> The reason I wouldn’t go union, especially starting out you just just never know when your next job will be when things get slow. Sure, better pay, benefits...
> 
> ...


Thank you for the insight, really appreciated. A "good hard way of life" sounds about right. I really enjoy the satisfaction you get when you put in a hard days work (whether as a line cook or as a plumber). Working in a cubicle just doesn't compare...

Just to clarify, union -> apprenticeship, private company -> trainee, right? There is no way to become an apprentice without joining a union or am I missing something?

Thanks again for your help.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Seattle Washington, I know there are plumbers from there here. My state requires years under a journeyman then years as a journeyman to get your master’s. Different all over the place!

You are a unique breed in today’s world! Learn and you will succeed! When you know what you’re doing don’t take szit pay. You’re about to learn a skill made of gold if you’re up to it. My body hurts, knees, back, neck sometimes when crawl spaces are involved. 

I’d like to hire you, but I don’t want employees. You could move here and work for my Master, and I could do my work. He’s an azzhole, but the nicest one I’ve ever met.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Here there is no “helper” unless it’s a subcontractor. If you work directly for a Master you have to be an apprentice.


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

Join the Union, by far the best training available 
8000hours on the job training as an apprentice & 5 years of night school.

Once you complete and pass the test, you can work anywhere in North America 

You will be a NASCAR mechanic compared to a jiffy lube idiot haha


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

http://www.ua.org


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## supersonicplumb (May 30, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> Here there is no “helper” unless it’s a subcontractor. If you work directly for a Master you have to be an apprentice.


The title of apprentice is only given by unions right?

Thanks.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I’m an apprentice. At least in Michigan only the State can give you an apprentice card.


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## CT-18 (Jun 27, 2016)

You can register as an ape for a non union shop. You need to find out how it works in your area. We need to have a master sign for our time we worked under his or her license. X number hours worked under a master and then take the test. It is the responsibility of the ape to get the affidavit and make sure it gets signed by master at the company where you are working.


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## supersonicplumb (May 30, 2018)

CT-18 said:


> You can register as an ape for a non union shop. You need to find out how it works in your area. We need to have a master sign for our time we worked under his or her license. X number hours worked under a master and then take the test. It is the responsibility of the ape to get the affidavit and make sure it gets signed by master at the company where you are working.


Yeah that sounds like what happens in Washington. I've read from another source that plumbing outfits are sometimes reluctant to offer these supervised hours because you can only have so many "apes" or trainees working under a journeyman/ master plumber. 

Seems a lot less official than an apprenticeship in a union. It also seems non-transferrable in the sense that if you are fired from working under a J/M level you don't have the title of apprentice, just your supervised hours.

Is the term ape used to denote their status on the food chain or an acronym?


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## CT-18 (Jun 27, 2016)

Acronym, heck of a lot easier than saying apprentice all the time. Once you are a registered apprentice you keep that status no matter if you are let go or not. If you do leave a company you need to get that master to sign for the time you worked at that shop. When you have enough hours worked under a master you can take your test.

I have worked both union and non and yes it is easier to be an ape in the union than out. That was my experience some people may have had it better.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

supersonicplumb said:


> Yeah that sounds like what happens in Washington. I've read from another source that plumbing outfits are sometimes reluctant to offer these supervised hours because you can only have so many "apes" or trainees working under a journeyman/ master plumber.
> 
> Seems a lot less official than an apprenticeship in a union. It also seems non-transferrable in the sense that if you are fired from working under a J/M level you don't have the title of apprentice, just your supervised hours.
> 
> Is the term ape used to denote their status on the food chain or an acronym?


The way it worked in Oregon: 

You sign up through the training agency to be an apprentice. Once they approve you, you are an apprentice until you are kicked out of the program for something severe, or you revoke your own status at will.

They put you on a ranked list based on a lot of things having to do with education and experience.

Shops belonging to the training agency who are looking for apprentices call the training agency and request an apprentice. The training agency gives them contact information based on your number on the list, and if you are on top you go to work.

If you get laid off or fired in THEORY your name would automatically go to the top of the list since you are an out of work apprentice now.

The downside of being out of work and in the program was that they still required you to attend school. I'm sure glad that didn't happen to me because a 3.5 hour drive each way to the school site would have put me in the poor house if I wasn't working.

Yes, there is a restriction on the number of apprentices in a shop, because they have to be supervised to a certain extent. Once you have passed that threshold you are allowed to do some kinds of work on your own, but they still have to be a phone call away if you need help. That ratio, as you mentioned is determined by the number of journeymen in the shop.

All in all, my experience as an apprentice through the state (non union) was a good one. I really have no complaints.


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## supersonicplumb (May 30, 2018)

Not sure if this will be seen, just want to thank everyone for the advice and input. It has been super helpful. Sort of leaning to the non-union route due to the fact that I don't see myself wanting to work in a union and am more interested in the residential service side of the trade. 

I have zero experience in the trade (other than replacing and fixing a couple toilets in my parent's house), but am eager to work. Sending my resume out to different companies has been unsuccessful thus far- even to ones that are looking for apprentices (usually with experience though).

It was recommended by someone online that I go to a plumbing supply house as they open (7AM) and ask if I might be able to kindly approach plumbers they know with resume in hand. I usually make a good first impression and look like I take myself seriously. Is this approach too direct?

Would simply be asking for the opportunity to grind for someone and learn along the way. 

Anyways, thanks again for your help! Have seriously enjoyed reading comments on this forum.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

If You check out drain cleaning CO'S you will find that they are much more likely to hire a ape then a straight Plumbing CO. might, they are always
looking for good workers and yes you do a lots and lots of drain work 
but there will also be Plumbing work too,
like Opensights is doing drains and working as a ape for a Master,
Drain Cleaners are not as a rule as regulated as Plumbing CO's
take here in TEXAS for Example with over 40 yrs experience in 5 states
and being a Master Plumber since Jan 1989, I am not able to use anything more then a "PLUNGER" here,
but there are still men out there doing drain cleaning work and taking 
the chance that they don't get caught and have to pay a fine ! !

you just have to be willing to work long hours and be on call weekends and holidays but there is work if you know where to find it

And I spent 5 yrs in Washington State both on the East side as while as the West side from Bellingham to Puget Sound area Registered as a Apprentice


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> If You check out drain cleaning CO'S you will find that they are much more likely to hire a ape then a straight Plumbing CO. might, they are always
> looking for good workers and yes you do a lots and lots of drain work
> but there will also be Plumbing work too,
> like Opensights is doing drains and working as a ape for a Master,
> ...


Wow! Quite the opposite here! I worked for a drain cleaner who took a risk with every plumbing job he took, never the other way around.

Drain cleaning is recession proof and a good skill to learn if you can handle the nasty. If you’re not willing to put on some waders to walk through 3’ of sewage, drain cleaning is not for you.


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## supersonicplumb (May 30, 2018)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> If You check out drain cleaning CO'S you will find that they are much more likely to hire a ape then a straight Plumbing CO. might, they are always
> looking for good workers and yes you do a lots and lots of drain work
> but there will also be Plumbing work too,
> like Opensights is doing drains and working as a ape for a Master,
> ...


Gotta be perfectly honest, the way Opensights describes drain cleaning, I'm not sure how much I could handle. What really interests me about plumbing is the problem solving, pipework and working with customers. I suppose beggars can't be choosers, but I'm not sure wading through 3' of sewage is something I would be willing to do. Getting dirty fixing pipes, crawling in crawlspaces, troubleshooting sewage pipes etc. is not a problem for me. I have serious respect for the guys working with drain problems though :vs_cool:


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Yeah I carried waders on the truck just for that and I kept my Levis a couple 
of Inches shorter so they would not drag though the sewage,

I have gone to a house dn hill from a tract that city sewer backed up into house
6"-8" deep from bathrooms, bedrooms, and hall 

And a 3 story apt building with 2 bedroom, 2 bath apts completely 
flooded out same way with sewer main blockadge


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

supersonicplumb said:


> Getting dirty fixing pipes, crawling in crawlspaces, troubleshooting sewage pipes etc. is not a problem for me. I have serious respect for the guys working with drain problems though :vs_cool:


Other bad areas are near misses in my lifetime where a foreman told me to unbolt a 12" steam line. I disobeyed and did my own walk through to find it was live!

Another time it was a 16" where we pried the flanges while the welder went to get his cables, a pocket of boiling water gushed out for 4 minutes and flooded the 3rd floor by 6 inches in the paper mill. I was waiting 5 feet away when it happened. I would of been badly burned or dead.

There's more but that's it for now.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Iv never worked in the union. But i went to school with union guys, so with that being said. I decided to stay non union throughout my apprenticeship i started with small shops 4 guys max and i got tossed into jobs right away. Which resulted in learning quicker. Was givin more responsibility. I was doing rough in's by myself befour i was a registerd apprentice, by the time i got to school i felt like i was ahead of the game. Majority of the union guys in my class spent their first couple years goin for coffee an puttin up hangers so it took them longer to understand what was being taught in school and a huge lack of hands on experiance. Sure you get more money in the union but i worked for a good master and felt like i got a better education and glad i stayed where i was. I went to a bigger shop by the end of my apprenticeship i got experiance in residential, commercial, service, institutional, some industial. Im best at residential and commercial. But im young an still have alot to learn but im glad i got a taste of alot rather then 1 specific area. Now that im done my apprenticeship i have an idea where i enjoy being and im more focused on the money. There are smart talented union plumbers an there are smart talented non-union plumbers, just find a solid master plumber to learn from ( enjoys teaching ) and be teachable. Cant paint everyone with the same brush regardless where the work. All comes down to what YOU put into it.


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