# gas fittings concealed in wall?



## younger-plumber

I'm running a 1/2 soft copper gas line to a new furnace in a slab home. Any one run into issues with fittings in the walls? They require black pipe coming out to the meter but I'm converting to copper inside of the home.am I going to have to run the line exposed in the garage to avoid fittings in the wall? I can't recall whether this is a no no or not? Most of my gas jobs are crawlspace so this isn't an issue...tia


----------



## Leach713

Open up your code book


----------



## Shoot'N'Plumber

We can't use copper around here only black iron or glavanized in an exposed location so don't see how you can run pipe without any fittings in wall.


----------



## georgepsi

Not sure where you live but I would almost bet that 1/2 is not going to be enough for furnace and here in NJ we can't run any copper for gas unless it Viega G ProPress and L copper


----------



## younger-plumber

1/2 is plenty for the furnace. And I was thinking of putting a valve in the wall and converting from black to the copper at the valve.if I installed an access panel over the valve then It should pass... I can roll the copper up the wall and into the attic without fittings and then make my two drops down the wall in the same manner.


----------



## younger-plumber

And I run copper for everything unless customer wants trac pipe...


----------



## Leach713

younger-plumber said:


> And I run copper for everything unless customer wants trac pipe...



That a lot of money's wasted


----------



## younger-plumber

That's a lot of money made. Any monkey can run trac. Copper is more tedious and pays more.


----------



## wyrickmech

Here we are required to run black sch 40 steel only and ALL fittings must be socket or butt weld no threaded fittings in concealed spaces.


----------



## Leach713

younger-plumber said:


> That's a lot of money made. Any monkey can run trac. Copper is more tedious and pays more.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Any crash dummy can also run soft copper


----------



## Leach713

younger-plumber said:


> That's a lot of money made. Any monkey can run trac. Copper is more tedious and pays more.[/QUOTE
> 
> No it don't knowledge is what gets paid more


----------



## plbgbiz

Well ain't this a hoot, two guys arguing over which substandard install is best.


----------



## Leach713

plbgbiz said:


> Well ain't this a hoot, two guys arguing over which substandard install is best.


I never said anything was better than the other


----------



## Leach713

I don't know any better this is what I use ,
Any back to the topic I believed copper is outdated for inside installation in gas. Around here.


----------



## younger-plumber

Never said one was better. I prefer copper and customer requested it. I enjoy flaring what can I say lol


----------



## Pacificpipes

I run bendy straws with electrical tape.


----------



## plbgbiz

I guess the fittings would have been just fine in the wall. :laughing:


----------



## Pacificpipes

plbgbiz said:


> I guess the fittings would have been just fine in the wall. :laughing:


 It looks like the water heater barfed.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing

doesnt anyone own a threader anymore. when i run gas, copper and trac dont cross my mind. grab the threader and some real pipe and get the job done. i am not gonna say handy man but really...:blink: where is the pride in our trade? just my opinion. now you can start yelling at me.


----------



## wyrickmech

I like that our inspectors won't allow copper for natural gas. We hard pipe everything if you plan out the runs it really doesn't take much more time. The pictures with threaded fittings in the wall would be rejected here. For a time we even had to weld everything in open plentumes.


----------



## Pacificpipes

I've never ran soft copper for gas in California. Doesn't the gas rot the copper?


----------



## redbeardplumber

What??? No...


----------



## BC73RS

redbeardplumber said:


> What??? No...


No need to waste your breath, I don't think anybody has responded with a reputable response yet.


----------



## BC73RS

If you haven't been educated in the gas trade and you do not not have a gas ticket recognized by the local authority of your jurisdiction, call a professional to do the required work.
Long story short, practice what you preach.


----------



## Pacificpipes

I thread everything.


----------



## Pacificpipes

redbeardplumber said:


> What??? No...


. I get it.


----------



## plbgbiz

Pacificpipes said:


> I've never ran soft copper for gas in California. Doesn't the gas rot the copper?


It depends on the gas. Not all NG is the same.

Here it doesn't actually rot the pipe. Copper gets a black soot looking coating on the inside that flakes off and can clog valves. We are also not allowed to run galvanized for gas. Other areas of the country can run nothing but galvanized.

Not all NG is created equal.


----------



## Redwood

Pacificpipes said:


> I've never ran soft copper for gas in California. Doesn't the gas rot the copper?


Your gas does...
Bun not everyones does...


----------



## plumbdrum

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> doesnt anyone own a threader anymore. when i run gas, copper and trac dont cross my mind. grab the threader and some real pipe and get the job done. i am not gonna say handy man but really...:blink: where is the pride in our trade? just my opinion. now you can start yelling at me.


I think it comes down to being YOUNG

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## plumbdrum

wyrickmech said:


> I like that our inspectors won't allow copper for natural gas. We hard pipe everything if you plan out the runs it really doesn't take much more time. The pictures with threaded fittings in the wall would be rejected here. For a time we even had to weld everything in open plentumes.


Like you said , it come down to planing and hangers, everything is easy peasy

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## redbeardplumber

Redwood said:


> Your gas does...
> Bun not everyones does...


Well then. I take back my "what???" lol


----------



## Shoot'N'Plumber

Pacificpipes said:


> I've never ran soft copper for gas in California. Doesn't the gas rot the copper?


It depends on the corrosive properties of the gas based on ppm's, supposedly SoCal gas began removing many of the corrosive props to limit its corrosiveness and it now meets the standard to allow for copper, but most cities still don't allow it. I guess it's a good thing though...with our lax licensing laws and abundance of HandiHacks can you imagine the disaster that would occur from an idiot taking a sawzall or grinder to what they think is a copper water supply. Hell even smoking a cigarette white cutting into said copper line


----------



## MACPLUMB777

SoCal gets it's gas from Texas and Louisiana which is high in sulfur content
that is what causes the black flaking the sulfur reacting to the copper 
as posted the flaking flows down into gas valves and prevents them from 
closing 100% in a emergency


----------



## wyrickmech

Years ago we made the final connection with copper. After a few years of trouble with gas valves they outlawed it.


----------



## younger-plumber

Got it all plumbed. Inspector allowed the transition from black steel to the copper inside the wall with an access cover installed .thanks for the help, I guess. Lol


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing

congrats. whats next? pex for gas lines. keep taking the skill out of a skilled trade. copper used to be used for drain lines. it sucked. copper used to be used for gas lines.....


----------



## plbgbiz

younger-plumber said:


> ...thanks for the help, I guess. Lol


Your welcome, I guess. :laughing:


----------



## Letterrip

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> copper used to be used for drain lines. it sucked


Huh? You guys have problems with copper drain lines? I've seen problems with copper lines on urinals, but we change a lot of 50+ year old copper kitchen sink drain lines, and a ton of same aged lavatory lines still in service. Not a bad life for a metal pipe. The regional differences are interesting.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing

short sweep elbows and tees instead of wyes. thats part of the problem with copper. although when scrap prices were high, nothing better than a repipe


----------



## wyrickmech

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> short sweep elbows and tees instead of wyes. thats part of the problem with copper. although when scrap prices were high, nothing better than a repipe


you can get standard sweep 90 s and wyes in copper. Just harder to get in some areas.


----------



## younger-plumber

I love how many plumbers on here rag on me about using materials that are code compliant and don't even have a master's license like me, a young unskilled industry killer haha


----------



## plbgbiz

younger-plumber said:


> I love how many plumbers on here rag on me about using materials that are code compliant and don't even have a master's license like me, a young unskilled industry killer haha


Orangeburg and polybutylene were code compliant. Good code does not always equal good plumbing.


----------



## Leach713

younger-plumber said:


> I love how many plumbers on here rag on me about using materials that are code compliant and don't even have a master's license like me, a young unskilled industry killer haha



Lmao just a yr ago you said you were a 2nd yr


----------



## plbgbiz

And the hoot continues. :laughing:


----------



## plumbdrum

Leach713 said:


> Lmao just a yr ago you said you were a 2nd yr


What does that have to do with anything? They've got a license,that's good enough for me.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## plumbdrum

Sorry wrong quote, I meant to use the other one about him having a master license.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## Leach713

plbgbiz said:


> And the hoot continues. :laughing:



You what you right I should if just shhh


----------



## Leach713

Leach713 said:


> You what you right I should if just shhh


You know what, you are right


----------



## younger-plumber

Leach713 said:


> Lmao just a yr ago you said you were a 2nd yr


 bs. 8 years.whp are you again?


----------



## younger-plumber

My bad. 2nd year license holder yes.lol. 8 years in the trade.


----------



## plbgbiz

I wonder how NH's 2nd year apprenti are doing in the skills challenge this week....and how much time he spent teaching them about gas pex and gas copper. :laughing:


----------



## younger-plumber

What's a nh?


----------



## wyrickmech

I see this thread coming unhinged in less than twelve hours.lol


----------



## plbgbiz

younger-plumber said:


> What's a nh?


PZ member NHmaster.


----------



## Letterrip

wyrickmech said:


> I see this thread coming unhinged in less than twelve hours.lol


Like it hasn't begun already??


----------



## jeffreyplumber

Ive seen some kinda pex for gas I found it amusing at best. Copper can be used Ive seen it in upc book but , it must be brazed and there are other restrictions, and I dont think soft copper can be used at all. Soft copper buried in walls pretty scabby work. Think they do that on mobile homes and trailers, It will work if quality and legal work is of no concern.


----------



## younger-plumber

Every residential home here is plumbed with soft copper in the walls and crawlspace. It is the norm and is expected. No one runs black unless it's commercial here. I was in 3 homes this week and all had soft copper for the ng line.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing

i thought soft copper was was only used to hook up toilets, sinks, and ice makers but you have proved this master plumber wrong. :blink:


----------



## Leach713

younger-plumber said:


> Every residential home here is plumbed with soft copper in the walls and crawlspace. It is the norm and is expected. No one runs black unless it's commercial here. I was in 3 homes this week and all had soft copper for the ng line.


Because half of them are retards !


----------



## Leach713

Monkey see monkey do


----------



## younger-plumber

Well I'm making bank running copper and being a retard I guess.lol


----------



## Leach713

younger-plumber said:


> Well I'm making bank running copper and being a retard I guess.lol


Who isn't?


----------



## plumbdrum

younger-plumber said:


> I'm running a 1/2 soft copper gas line to a new furnace in a slab home. Any one run into issues with fittings in the walls? They require black pipe coming out to the meter but I'm converting to copper inside of the home.am I going to have to run the line exposed in the garage to avoid fittings in the wall? I can't recall whether this is a no no or not? Most of my gas jobs are crawlspace so this isn't an issue...tia


Wouldn't a MASTER plumber/Gasfitter know this??

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## Leach713

Make sure you pick up one of these


----------



## plumbdrum

younger-plumber said:


> That's a lot of money made. Any monkey can run trac. Copper is more tedious and pays more.


Any Baboon can run trac pipe

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## younger-plumber

Leach713 said:


> Make sure you pick up one of these


 look at all that trac pipe in the background! haha.


----------



## plbgbiz

plumbdrum said:


> Any Baboon can run trac pipe...


And many do. :laughing:


----------



## plumbdrum

younger-plumber said:


> look at all that trac pipe in the background! haha.


That's not trac pipe, it's gas Pex .

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## younger-plumber

copper is better than any gas pex


----------



## plumbdrum

younger-plumber said:


> copper is better than any gas pex


Yep, way better

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing

maybe for water lines:laughing:


----------



## Leach713

younger-plumber said:


> look at all that trac pipe in the background! haha.



Wouldn't a master know the difference between "trac pipe" aka csst and poly.


----------



## plbgbiz

Leach713 said:


> Wouldn't a master know the difference between "trac pipe" aka csst and poly.


Gas Pex is what I call CSST. 

AKA crapola.


----------



## Leach713

plbgbiz said:


> Gas Pex is what I call CSST. AKA crapola.


Lmao


----------



## plumbdrum

plbgbiz said:


> Gas Pex is what I call CSST. AKA crapola.


I referred to the poly as gas Pex , but I get your point. Major Crapola, just like copper for a Gas install

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## plbgbiz

Leach713 said:


> Wouldn't a master know the difference between "trac pipe" aka csst and poly.


I know several masters that have never seen either one and wouldn't touch them if they did.


----------



## Leach713

plbgbiz said:


> I know several masters that have never seen either one and wouldn't touch them if they did.



FYI I have never used csst on any install 
So what do you install for underground master?


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing

i dont install underground gas. i leave that up to the utilities for ng or the lp company. i take it from the meter or the regulator with threaded pipe. :yes:


----------



## plbgbiz

Leach713 said:


> FYI I have never used csst on any install So what do you install for underground master?


 Depending on the job...polyethylene to coated steel risers or coated steel.

CSST - NEVER!


----------



## younger-plumber

What's threaded pipe?


----------



## wyrickmech

younger-plumber said:


> What's threaded pipe?


it's technical hard to explain.lol


----------



## Leach713

wyrickmech said:


> it's technical hard to explain.lol



It is not lmao


----------



## younger-plumber

the pz is acting weird. ive been trying to upload pics of the gas lines I ran (that passed inspection and has been paid for in full $$$) but it keeps saying failure to load... any ideaS? id love to have you guys continue bashing my work haha


----------



## newyorkcity

younger-plumber said:


> the pz is acting weird. ive been trying to upload pics of the gas lines I ran (that passed inspection and has been paid for in full $$$) but it keeps saying failure to load... any ideaS? id love to have you guys continue bashing my work haha



The PZ forum software is cringing at the thought of running soft copper for gas piping. That's why it won't upload...
haha, lol...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Tommy plumber

younger-plumber said:


> What's threaded pipe?












Evidently you've never seen, much less used one of these:


----------



## MNplumb1

Tommy plumber said:


> Evidently you've never seen, much less used one of these:


Yours looks really clean doesn't look like a lot of use. Must be using csst.


----------



## newyorkcity

Tommy plumber said:


> Evidently you've never seen, much less used one of these:


I acquired one just like yours. I remember when you posted the pics after the restoration. I need to reseal the connection where the oil comes out - half of the oil runs down instead of through the nozzle. Did you have to replace any gaskets or o-rings?
-Beautiful restoration btw.


----------



## Tommy plumber

newyorkcity said:


> I acquired one just like yours. I remember when you posted the pics after the restoration. I need to reseal the connection where the oil comes out - half of the oil runs down instead of through the nozzle. Did you have to replace any gaskets or o-rings?
> -Beautiful restoration btw.












I replaced the oil seals because mine were leaking badly {although the cutting oil dripped right back down into the resevoir}.

There is a company that sells the oil seals and other parts for these machines.


----------



## Tommy plumber

MNplumb1 said:


> Yours looks really clean doesn't look like a lot of use. Must be using csst.












That picture is from when I finished restoring it. It looked like this when I bought it:


----------



## Tommy plumber

younger-plumber said:


> the pz is acting weird. ive been trying to upload pics of the gas lines I ran (that passed inspection and has been paid for in full $$$) but it keeps saying failure to load... any ideaS? id love to have you guys continue bashing my work haha












Sorry for de-railing your thread. What were we talking about? Oh yeah, pipe that comes on a roll....:laughing:


----------



## redbeardplumber

I have only used sost copper once. No big deal up here... Usually I'll see it feeding a fireplace off of sched 40


----------



## plbgbiz

younger-plumber said:


> the pz is acting weird. ive been trying to upload pics of the gas lines I ran (that passed inspection and has been paid for in full $$$) but it keeps saying failure to load... any ideaS? id love to have you guys continue bashing my work haha


Pics are probably too large. Try downsizing them.


----------



## jeffreyplumber

Iprobebly shouldnt called it scabby work to use soft copper in the way you describe... But in my area and my culture it is pretty bad and unheard of. I am intersted to know if the soft copper with buried fittings is concidered code approved and common practice is other areas.


----------



## wyrickmech

What happens when a area that gets there gas from a area that the sulfur is low changes policy and brings in gas that is corrosive? If it does not work in parts of the country why use it. I know it is more cost effective in some peoples minds but the extra cost of copper per foot would make sch 40 look appealing.


----------



## Pacificpipes

younger-plumber said:


> the pz is acting weird. ive been trying to upload pics of the gas lines I ran (that passed inspection and has been paid for in full $$$) but it keeps saying failure to load... any ideaS? id love to have you guys continue bashing my work haha


. The site inspector didn't pass your install.


----------



## Letterrip

Tommy plumber said:


> Evidently you've never seen, much less used one of these:


There were times I wished I could have used one of those. My weapons of choice (or at least of availability) were these. 2" is nearly impossible for me.


----------



## 504Plumber

Small gas line we had to run Friday, 1 1/4" to a generator 10ft up. Black and galvanized is the only way to roll. I've been to a gas leak that water had gotten between the jacket and "stainless" and made pin holes the entire run. Copper is not allowed here anymore, I always thought copper was more for LP anyway... 

As for underground it's much easier and IMHO better in the long run to use the poly with steel risers.


----------



## Will

Here some black steel I ran for a pool heater. I've been having issues with Wheatland steel pipe lately, especially 1". Anyone else having these issues? Ive replaced the dies on my threaders and it doesn't seem to change anything.


----------



## budders

plbgbiz said:


> Well ain't this a hoot, two guys arguing over which substandard install is best.


 o man i love the stuff u come up with makes me laugh every time. Thank you for you being you.


----------



## budders

newyorkcity said:


> The PZ forum software is cringing at the thought of running soft copper for gas piping. That's why it won't upload... haha, lol...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


 omg i cant believe i missed this whole thread u guys are a riot. For the record the money i make from soft copper is from tearing it out and replacing it with black steel because threading and turning wrenches is more tedious and makes more money. O and it looks better and where I'm from soft copper is only put in by the gas supplier because they don't need an inspection to hook up to the bottles there dropping off.


----------



## 504Plumber

Will said:


> Here some black steel I ran for a pool heater. I've been having issues with Wheatland steel pipe lately, especially 1". Anyone else having these issues? Ive replaced the dies on my threaders and it doesn't seem to change anything.


I may have to check and see what kind of pipe we've been using ... But yes, 1" pipe is being a huge *****. We had some 1 1/2 a couple months ago, not just one piece but 2 of them blew up in the dies. I wish I had pictures but it literally took chunks out of the pipe when it bound up for no reason.


----------



## budders

I had pipe from Mexico that i had problems with about 8 months ago. Switched to Canadian stuff and haven't had a problem.


----------



## Coolcanuck

Don't have time to read the whole thread. Copper carries a good btu load for size. I'll carry it if I'm in a pinch for piping and out of town. I also like it for under patios for bbq's. hand Threader, pipe, gastite I can carry them all, but at the end of the job it's always materials and time that the customer pays for, and being a service guy I'm thinking of my own convenience when I come back.


----------



## mtfallsmikey

Dam, I must be getting old... grew up threading black for all gas lines, plus hydronic heating, then 2 psi systems came along, copper pipe/Swagelocks, CSST and other members of the spaghetti family, now back to black, sheesh.


----------



## 504Plumber

mtfallsmikey said:


> Dam, I must be getting old... grew up threading black for all gas lines, plus hydronic heating, then 2 psi systems came along, copper pipe/Swagelocks, CSST and other members of the spaghetti family, now back to black, sheesh.


We run black for 2psi...

Hell, we got a warehouse that has 5 pounds on 2" black iron. Not really sure why because there is literally nothing in there...


----------



## budders

504Plumber said:


> We run black for 2psi... Hell, we got a warehouse that has 5 pounds on 2" black iron. Not really sure why because there is literally nothing in there...


 lol its the just in case line


----------



## MACPLUMB777

plbgbiz said:


> Depending on the job...polyethylene to coated steel risers or coated steel.
> 
> CSST - NEVER!


I have run many feet of coated steel pipe underground, they did not have polyethylene when I was running underground, 
But they did have sch 40 PVC GAS pipe this looked just like regular pvc but it was labeled "GAS" ever foot and you had to lay it with that label showing used standard pvc fittings with it and a copper tracer wire along side, and it also had to be deeper then pvc water pipe :whistling2:

we always seemed to get these when it was raining, because that is when the leaks in the old steel pipe would show !

you ever try to get 60 or 80 feet of pvc pipe pumped up to 60 psi and capped
to lay on the bottom of ditch full of water ! :furious:
had that happen a couple of times !


----------



## MACPLUMB777

504Plumber said:


> Small gas line we had to run Friday, 1 1/4" to a generator 10ft up. Black and galvanized is the only way to roll. I've been to a gas leak that water had gotten between the jacket and "stainless" and made pin holes the entire run. Copper is not allowed here anymore, I always thought copper was more for LP anyway...
> 
> As for underground it's much easier and IMHO better in the long run to use the poly with steel risers.


A beautiful piping job reminds me of some that I have run !

I have also run 5 psi gas pipe for a very high efficiency furnace that was used to burn paint fumes from a factory that did a lot of spray painting
after it was running then the paint caused the burner to become self sustaining,
this was to meet EPA air quality standards


----------



## MACPLUMB777

newyorkcity said:


> The PZ forum software is cringing at the thought of running soft copper for gas piping. That's why it won't upload...
> haha, lol...:laughing::laughing::laughing:


The only code approved copper that I know about for gas piping is a specialty 
coated pipe that is made to use with Viega Pro Press look it up nuf said :thumbup:

This is a hard drawn copper tubing, no soft tubing,


----------



## Fast fry

Once you go black - u will never go back!


----------



## wyplumber

Will said:


> Here some black steel I ran for a pool heater. I've been having issues with Wheatland steel pipe lately, especially 1". Anyone else having these issues? Ive replaced the dies on my threaders and it doesn't seem to change anything.
> 
> 
> I love it when wheatland pipe shows up. The last 2 big jobs when the feurgs truck pulled up and i went oh **** both times same helper asked whats wrong both times told him hyundai i still don't thinks he understands.
> 
> I hate Hyundai black steel pipe. I can not thread it for anything.


----------



## younger-plumber

rodeorooter said:


> There isn’t any extended anticipating the actual griddle to get hot before you can begin to prepare food. Even so, gasoline is really a volatile and quite often harmful substance. Gas fitting should only be carried out by a business for your protection along with the safety of your family members. :thumbsup:


:blink:


----------



## plbgbiz

rodeorooter said:


> There isn’t any extended anticipating...


See ya...


----------



## budders

plbgbiz said:


> See ya...


 do u have thw ability to ban him?


----------



## Fast fry

Rodeo rooter - that just says it all -


----------



## plbgbiz

budders said:


> do u have thw ability to ban him?


That is what is implied by the "Elvis has left the building" pic. Rodeo is no longer with us. 

He was a spammer from India.


----------



## plbgbiz

The ban hammer may get dusty on occasion, but it functions quite well. :yes:


----------

