# Grandfathered License or Exam



## robwilliams (May 6, 2011)

Just curious what you guys thought about this. If someone received his license by the "grandfather clause", do you consider him less of a Plumber than the guy that took and passed an exam?


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

I think if you want the title of Master plumber you should take the exam . Because what happens when someone has worked only in the office and never in the field , I don't think that is fair.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Kind of the same argument in the union. There is turned out members, Organized members, and card buying members in that order.
Agreed a test should be taken to get my respect.


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## PunkRockPlumber (Mar 26, 2012)

I believe that everyone getting their license now should have to work for it. It's a lot of dedication studying and hard work. I did 4 years of school(waste of time) and 1 year out in the field as a journeyman. Getting all paperwork together and send out application just to get approved to take the test. Then deal with idiotic testing agency who made everything 10 times more difficult than it needed to be. It would bother me to see someone handed their license when I busted my ass for mine. But that's just me. A lot of things bother me. Lol.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

What are the rules? Typically when they grandfather a company the company has already been in business for x amount of years doing business as whatever it is. One rule in Ohio was if you held a license from a city that tested you were grandfathered into the state license. I have absolutely no problem with the grandfather clause.

For those who said the opposite if you had an open book test will that mean you are less of a plumber than the one who had the test closed book? Are you less than the plumber who can wipe a joint? How about the plumbers who have never poured a lead joint are they less of a plumber than those who have? I’ve met plumbers who have never laid cast iron they cannot possibly be a real plumber can they?

This coming from a plumber who has taken and passed tests.


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## PunkRockPlumber (Mar 26, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> For those who said the opposite if you had an open book test will that mean you are less of a plumber than the one who had the test closed book?
> 
> This coming from a plumber who has taken and past tests.


Wait, there's open book tests? The only open book I had was for for business law.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

MikeBKNY78 said:


> Wait, there's open book tests? The only open book I had was for for business law.


 
ooops spelling error it is passed not past.
Yep open book masters test


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> What are the rules? Typically when they grandfather a company the company has already been in business for x amount of years doing business as whatever it is. One rule in Ohio was if you held a license from a city that tested you were grandfathered into the state license. I have absolutely no problem with the grandfather clause.
> 
> For those who said the opposite if you had an open book test will that mean you are less of a plumber than the one who had the test closed book? Are you less than the plumber who can wipe a joint? How about the plumbers who have never poured a lead joint are they less of a plumber than those who have? I’ve met plumbers who have never laid cast iron they cannot possibly be a real plumber can they?
> 
> This coming from a plumber who has taken and passed tests.


Same argument as hand me down opossed to earning something.


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

The state of Massachuetts started a sheet metal license about 2 years ago. If you showed documentation that you have been in the business of installing sheet metal you where grandfathered in.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

robwilliams said:


> Just curious what you guys thought about this. If someone received his license by the "grandfather clause", do you consider him less of a Plumber than the guy that took and passed an exam?



Deja vu, didn't you ask the identical question 5-months ago?

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/grandfather-clause-15730/#post215864

Mark


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

MikeBKNY78 said:


> Wait, there's open book tests? The only open book I had was for for business law.


 








FL master's exam is (2) parts. Part I is Business and Finance, and Part II is Plumbing knowledge. Both are open book. But open-book does not mean easy.....:no:


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## PunkRockPlumber (Mar 26, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> FL master's exam is (2) parts. Part I is Business and Finance, and Part II is Plumbing knowledge. Both are open book. But open-book does not mean easy.....:no:


NJ is 3 parts. Business law, plumbing code, and practical exam (isometric diagram). Business law was most difficult and that was open book. I was really worried about that section but still managed an 82. The other two were cake. Closed book.


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## lpayne1234 (Sep 20, 2008)

Same difference, someone signed for a guy to hold an apprentice card here in Alabama and in Sept last year went and sit for the Journeymen Plumber test and passed, he don't know nothing. Only reason he is getting buy is because he is working for the State, can't even light a torch. wish I knew who signed for him?


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

robwilliams said:


> Just curious what you guys thought about this. If someone received his license by the "grandfather clause", do you consider him less of a Plumber than the guy that took and passed an exam?


Santa Clause may be a Grandfather, but I don't think he's even done any plumbing.:laughing:

Where can you get a plumbing lic. without taking and passing a test???


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

My father & brother were both master plumbers, who took & passed Masters test in Mich. Back then, gas piping, boiler install & repairs, fire sprinklers, airconditioning, & basically all 7 classes of mechanical, were included. When they took this out of the plumbing classification, my father & brother were grandfathered in, & never had to pass any kind of mechanical, or boiler, or fire suppression test, yet they could do it all. In fact we used to do alot of fire suppression work, cuz my bro, had the license. I hated that work.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

BigDave said:


> Santa Clause may be a Grandfather, but I don't think he's even done any plumbing.:laughing:
> 
> Where can you get a plumbing lic. without taking and passing a test???



Many years ago Indiana changed laws and when they required a State licensed they allowed many contractors to get a Plumbing Contractor license without a test. The guy I apprenticed under got his license that way. 

For years they also allowed guys to take the test without a apprenticeship so long as someone signed saying they had experience. Legalized a bunch of hacks who didn't know much about plumbing.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Put it this way .... some one was the first plumber or the first at anything... so I guess there is a tradition to grandfathering someone into a trade or occupation that was never organized prior ....


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

KY had a big problem with this aspect of the law years ago when I first entered the trade.

It started out as a master plumber was exclusive, not many who held the title.

Then it was a borrowed license that people would use for profit to the master plumber who never even set foot on the job or even turned a wrench.


Over the years though, they fixed that problem completely. 


No grandfather clause exists, you must be present during the work or for inspections or they won't pass.

Of course, there are some plumbers that are selling out for the dollar, I've been asked many times and haven't done it.

Record of W-2s is required now for a period of 2000 hours to take the journeymans. 


I'm glad they resolved this issue, but we now have master plumbers today making as little as $18/hour working for others due to the shrinking of the economy. 


Knowing that a master will work that cheap just ruins it like new construction plumbers do in their marginal bidding with one idiot low-balling taking the top numbers down to just above cost margins.


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## seanny deep (Jan 28, 2012)

I wouldn't work at mcdonalds for 18$, an hour yet alone work as a trained certified professional for that pathetic of a rate.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

ToUtahNow said:


> Deja vu, didn't you ask the identical question 5-months ago?
> 
> 
> Mark


Looks like someone might need a little reassurance.:whistling2:

My mentor was actually grandfathered, I don't believe it makes him any "less" of a plumber, but I do feel that one should have to jump through all the hoops necessary to get your license. I feel this is an important part of keeping the true professionals separated from the ones who don't want to go through all that is necessary to get their license. My two cents...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

MikeBKNY78 said:


> NJ is 3 parts. Business law, plumbing code, and practical exam (isometric diagram). Business law was most difficult and that was open book. I was really worried about that section but still managed an 82. The other two were cake. Closed book.


 






We have to do isometric drawings too. We have (5) of them on our exam.

I used to live in Monmouth county, just north of you in Ocean county.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

robwilliams said:


> Just curious what you guys thought about this. If someone received his license by the "grandfather clause", do you consider him less of a Plumber than the guy that took and passed an exam?


Unless he/she proves themself to me, then yes. I'm 38, and I'm a master plumber, by my states requirements. I don't consider myself a master plumber. Because I'm 38!!! Life is a long path, and the best lessons learned don't show up until later. I have a way to go, no matter what my state says. So let me clear this up for you... everything politicians say is BS. Including grandfather clauses. Mastering a trade is next to impossible. I wish people would quit trying to master things, and do things that they love. I love my job. I'm a plumber. What are you?


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Well I am a Master Plumber ! And I can say that because I did my time in the field and met all the requirements my plumbers board ask for . And last but not least I tested for both the written and practical parts of the test . Why would someone not want to go out and get their own license regardless if they were grandfather in ? Maybe because it's hard to do ? Just saying


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## SirAdrian (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm just, wondering from way up here in the great white north, what exactly does it take to be a master plumber? This seems to me to be an American term.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

SirAdrian said:


> I'm just, wondering from way up here in the great white north, what exactly does it take to be a master plumber? This seems to me to be an American term.


 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_craftsman#section_1


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## SirAdrian (Dec 14, 2011)

Thanks Brooklyn, but that link just tells me there are three classes, apprentice journeyman master. An then for some reason some really in depth stuff on German trades. I'm more interested in what a master means in the USA and what is required to get it.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Every jurisdiction is different, I was required 7 years under a master then written and practical exams


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

It goes both ways because any dumbfck can pass a test I know one that was a 5.5 year apprentice just got his license I been doing this for 4.5 years and got my license first a piece of plastic doesn't make you a plumber it's what you know what you can do and how good of a problem solver you are imo


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

SirAdrian said:


> Thanks Brooklyn, but that link just tells me there are three classes, apprentice journeyman master. An then for some reason some really in depth stuff on German trades. I'm more interested in what a master means in the USA and what is required to get it.


Doesn't onterible have a masters plumbers program. Not sure what good it would be they still have to write the same Red Seal exam that the rest of us do. There are a decent number of apprentices from back east in BC because among other things they can write the gas exam at the same time rather then doing it later. 

That said what does it matter if someone gets grand fathered in, it happens all the time, I have seen people write the exam after spending 5 years packing pipe, that doesn't make them any more qualified. The tests them selves also tend to change does that, newer members get on the governing boards and push to get away from old time proven material. My point is this it doesn't matter what ticket we have if we can't do the work, it will show as the economy slows, those that can't will get pushed aside. But once it does start to pick up those that have battered the ice age will excel.


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