# consumables



## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

How do you make sure that the consumables you purchase, such as rolls of solder and sawzall blades, are not adding to an employees' collection, without using too much of your time?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I trust them :thumbsup:


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

With a new guy, shouldn't you "trust, but verify"?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

You will know soon enough.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I used to work for a shop that made you turn in the old empty can of pipe dope before they gave you a new one. And when you asked for sand cloth, the shop guy gave you about a 12" piece......:blink:

When I did a commercial job, they wanted you to go around and count the solder joints and glue joints in addition to the other material. They also added the number of latex gloves on the invoice. They lost a commercial account because of the 'nickel and diming' on the invoice. We suggested at a company meeting to add 'shop supplies' on the invoices instead of itemizing every rag, latex glove etc. but the boss wanted to itemize everything on his invoice. He even wanted us to add a 'gas surcharge' on all comm. invoices when the gas price went above a certain amount.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Well, first, how much is too much of your time? 



You could make them turn in all used sawzall blades and such. 

Solder, who knows? Just check their invoices to see how much they are buying. 

What kind of inventory checks do you have in place otherwise?


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

People who pilfer material and/or tools often steal other things, like billable hours. As NH said, if they are doing something untrustworthy, it will be apparent soon enough (hopefully sooner than later).


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

My experience has been that "nickel and dime'ing" shops lose more money in trying to track consumables then they save.

I've never had to deal with it in the extreme that Tommy did (more to the point: I wouldn't :no, but you will frustrate yourself and your crew if you go OCD over it.

Some plumbers are ridiculously wasteful and a few are thieves, but I'd strongly recommend tact and good judgement if you pursue this. 

Figure out where the problem is without victimizing _everyone_ because you _may_ have a bad apple in the crate...then focus on the bad apple.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

That's why I like flat rate, alls built in


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

"Hey boss, I'm gutting my bathroom and was wondering if I could take home some (insert random consumable here) this weekend. I'll be sure to return what I don't use."

"Of course Ben, thanks for asking. Take whatever you need."

I'm not a crow, I don't take things because they're shiny or would look good in my toolbox. If I need to borrow a hilti or a breaker or anything of the sort, I ask and I've never been denied. It's a mutual respect thing. 

That being said, if I happened to be denied, I wouldn't take out of spite. I am not entitled to anything out of the job box or van, but if asking for a $0.69 roll of electrical tape saves me from going out of my way, most bosses are willing to accommodate I've found.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I don't ask for nothing i don't expect nothing and i don't take nothing makes my job allot easier


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

At my old shop the supply manager would give me such a hard time about every fitting or tub of flux, that I would most time just pick up my own on my own dime....now that I think about that's probably the result he was looking for. :laughing:


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

I don't currently have any untrustworthy employees. I offer all the basic supplies needed for their or their families' home projects. The reason I asked was I was curious after doing an rpz test for a friend with a large plumbing company. He says he has to accept a percentage for waste and pilferage. That is one reason I like being a small company.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

What I have done is this, I buy all sawzall blades in bulk , metal ,wood or diamond grit blades. I also buy all solder,brazing rod,flux,sand paper,flux ,brushes, glue/primer, mapp gas, pipe dope, thread tape,putty, silicone and etc...... all in bulk. I get a lot better prices doing this and can control inventory when I know what I have and what should be there. Example of price savings - 97/3 solder I pay 13.50 a roll . I can buy sawzall blades for .75 cents a piece for the regular one's.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

We track every inch of solder, every bolt, nut, washer, 1/2"90. Desanco nuts, hell if I put in a bag trap and don't use the 1.5" x 1.25" washer than it is added to my inventory.

Just Kidding I am trusted:laughing:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

We got it down to a science .. A 12" piece of sand cloth is good for 450 rubs ...


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> We got it down to a science .. A 12" piece of sand cloth is good for 450 rubs ...


You are too generous we only get 3" for 500 joints


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> We got it down to a science .. A 12" piece of sand cloth is good for 450 rubs ...


And how many rubs am I allotted per 1/2" joint, because after so many rubs you're just playing with it. :laughing:

Also, is there a barcode sticker clause, allowing an extra inch or some such provision? :jester:


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> At my old shop the supply manager would give me such a hard time about every fitting or tub of flux, that I would most time just pick up my own on my own dime....now that I think about that's probably the result he was looking for. :laughing:


 If i write down say 1/2" copper 90's on the short list he'll stick 1/2 a dozen that look like he found em at the bottom of a scrap barrel, some used with solder in them, on my truck seat and tell me to use them. Also were you all aware that black iron and galvanized fittings never need to be thrown away. Just unscrew them and reuse them on the next job. And my favorite is sending me bent in half or crushed pex crimp rings. We bill out at close to $2 a minute but apparently its worth the 2 or 3 minutes it takes to reform the 15 cent rings round.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

For the time I am a one man shop. 

But in the future I'm sure I'll apply the saying of "Stepping over dollars to pick up nickles."


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Indie said:


> For the time I am a one man shop.
> 
> But in the future I'm sure I'll apply the saying of "Stepping over dollars to pick up nickles."


"pennies" Indie... Baby steps
:jester:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

U666A said:


> "pennies" Indie... Baby steps
> :jester:


I've heard pennies, nickles, dimes, quarters or whatever. The point is made with any of these coins. :laughing:


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## TerryO (Oct 12, 2012)

For me theft is not so much the big deal, not that I haven't had to fire guys for stealing, but waste is the big deal.

Guy needs (fill in item here), buys 3 at supply house instead of 1, when job is finished throws 2 extras in truck and loads sewer machine on top of them. :-(

Job sites I go to I'll find a full stick of silver solider sitting on the water heater next to the evap coil we just installed, that's like leaving a $5 bill laying there. 

Turning in B tanks when they're still half full because someone didn't take care of the regulator and the gauge is broken. Don't want to run out of acetylene so better get a new tank. 

The guys that have been with me the longest have become pretty good at conserving. It's getting them to that point that costs me $$$.

Terry Ohlmann / www.ActionAirPlumbing.com


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I started plumbing doing new residential work. I was taught early work smarter not harder and don't over think. Place vents strategically to save drilling, material, and use as few connections as possible. All of which leads to saved time which means more profit for the company which could be my next raise. I was not taught by the owner of the company and it is a small company and i did move up the payscale quickly. I have been working that way since I started.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

I think regular discussion on the costs of material and ways not to waste are helpful. I hate wasting material even when its not my money. Often on big jobs Ill take material that is getting thrown out . Of course wasting lots of time just to save material is just as bad as wasting material. 
I also find that some buisness owners are so obsessed with security and untrusting that they are the ones usually getting screwed the worst . The bosses that are the hard asses think they are controlling everything security cameras, those gps or tracking devices on their truck. Some one comes along and finds a way to rip him off


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

When you show you don't have any trust in your employees it makes it hard for them to care. At least that was the case at one of my previous jobs. I was fired for speaking my mind about their practice of subcontracting to illegals.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I think making sure everyone knows the price is a good idea. A plumber who has not bought a roll of solder himself for a while, might think the stuff still costs 8 bucks a roll.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

My boss puts a $300 limit on truck stock purchases per transaction. Limiting stock purchases toward the end of the month. He sees every purchase as a notification on his phone. If someone is burning through supplies and the revenue isn't matching up, then you have some questions to ask. He has stated to use common sense as he'd rather use his time to grow the business not police everything.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I was nickeled and dimed at former company, when the wife came into the business... she still can't figured out why I have a much longer list than others... I just tell her that's how much I've sold for the business. Her husband was ready with the list when I pulled in the shop.. pointed out at radom from the list where's the material are.. showed every material I had on the truck. He gave up and told his wife quit wasting his time and shop's time on the frivous list.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I am trying to track everything I use. I'm just a one man shop, so I'm not stealing from myself but everything should be charged for. Go to the mechanic, if they use a paper towel it's on your bill. I personally don't see anything wrong with that, if you use it on a job that person should pay.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

On our tickets we have a spot for misc. Supplies. Almost everybody gets charged a few dollars to cover that stuff.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

That's smart. It is amazing how fast that stuff adds up. I do it when I remember.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

I dont charge for consumables. I personaly hate places that do, but as long as its up front and honest guess its ok. I dont have a fuel surcharge because gas has gone up a buck a gallon nor do I give them a credit because its dropped in price. I dont go to a resturant and pay for dish wash soap Nor do I charge for pipe thead oil. But these are definately buisness costs I think certain things need to be paid through your houly labor rate and your markup on parts.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

jeffreyplumber said:


> I dont charge for consumables. I personaly hate places that do, but as long as its up front and honest guess its ok. I dont have a fuel surcharge because gas has gone up a buck a gallon nor do I give them a credit because its dropped in price. I dont go to a resturant and pay for dish wash soap Nor do I charge for pipe thead oil. But these are definately buisness costs I think certain things need to be paid through your houly labor rate and your markup on parts.


I am same way. But mainly because I always forget. I see your logic

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

jeffreyplumber said:


> I dont charge for consumables. I personaly hate places that do, but as long as its up front and honest guess its ok. I dont have a fuel surcharge because gas has gone up a buck a gallon nor do I give them a credit because its dropped in price. I dont go to a resturant and pay for dish wash soap Nor do I charge for pipe thead oil. But these are definately buisness costs I think certain things need to be paid through your houly labor rate and your markup on parts.


I was with you all the way up to the markup on material.

Do you raise your hourly rate if it is a job with less material?


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

Trust & verify! Over the years I have had "things" dissapear but it didn't take long to figure it out and the bad apple had to be disposed of. Soon word gets out and the good employees like to keep their job as much as I like to keep the good ones too. But some consumables, I like to have them turn in the empty for exchange of new.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I could understand for some consumables but if I seriously had to turn in a saw all blade in order to get a new one I would be looking for a new job. I know they aren't the cheapest things in the world and when things are wasted or stolen the cost adds up very quickly but you have to have trust and draw a line somewhere.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> I was with you all the way up to the markup on material.
> 
> Do you raise your hourly rate if it is a job with less material?


I can see tying in consumables with material mark up as usually the more material being used the more consumables being consumed.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I just add 10 percent to the total material used to cover those things.. if I have to pull out my soldering bag, its 15 bucks there..


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

On our service tickets we charge 8.50 an hour for every hour of labor on the ticket (Truck/fuel/misc charge). We don't charge a show up fee or whatever it is being called now.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

We have been doing straight 85.00 an hour. No other charges. But I'm thinking about doing 85 for the first 30 min service call then then next 30 would be 42.50. That would help cover fuel and travel. Most calls run 30 min to an hour.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> I was with you all the way up to the markup on material.
> 
> Do you raise your hourly rate if it is a job with less material?


 I dont have a formula but If Im not supplying material and its several hour job or perhaps days then yes I would try to adjust the labor rate to pay for solder glue etc. or just tell them I got 20 0r 50 bucks in material
I just have a pet peeve about charging for rags and consumables. It kind of equates to going to a resturant and getting charged 18 percent for the tip. I know thats a bad example but it is something that the buisness has a perfect right to do But I as a custumer dont like it and it bugs me enough to concider taking my buisness elsewhere. Then again if everything about the company is great why let such a small thing bug anyone


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

jeffreyplumber said:


> I dont have a formula but If Im not supplying material and its several hour job or perhaps days then yes I would try to adjust the labor rate to pay for solder glue etc. or just tell them I got 20 0r 50 bucks in material
> I just have a pet peeve about charging for rags and consumables. It kind of equates to going to a resturant and getting charged 18 percent for the tip. I know thats a bad example but it is something that the buisness has a perfect right to do But I as a custumer dont like it and it bugs me enough to concider taking my buisness elsewhere. Then again if everything about the company is great why let such a small thing bug anyone


Do you get your rags for free? I sure don't, someone its going to pay for them. When someone questions this I tell them the exact same thing. I say my price is the bare minimum to cover my expenses and make a small profit. I would rather keep my price lower and charge only for the things I use, than raise my rate and make everyone pay. 

Everything I have to pay for, gets charged out. Small things like glue and primer solder and flux eat up profit pretty fast if not charging for them. Either have them built in, or itemize, but whatever you do don't eat it


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## Boundry (Jul 14, 2012)

Consumables are tricky, no one likes to get the finger up the arse on a bill. Ive had more people complain about a $20 charge for consumables than the $2000 charge ( or whatever ) on labour.
Its the little things that will piss of you customer.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

I charge shop supplies on every bill. Like RJ when the solder bag comes out the that increases. You are correct about the LITTLE THINGS pissing people off. I used to show an itemized list of materials but that would lead the HO down the path of disputing the cost of every little item. So now I have an itemized list, and if they request it I'll give them a copy. The bill says material $ ... Labour ...$. Rarely do I give a copy of material list. Just like mileage, people hated paying it, so now no mileage charge just hourly rate from town till I get back to town. (shop to shop). Even though this is more money, people don't whine.


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## Boundry (Jul 14, 2012)

redbeardplumber said:


> I charge shop supplies on every bill. Like RJ when the solder bag comes out the that increases. You are correct about the LITTLE THINGS pissing people off. I used to show an itemized list of materials but that would lead the HO down the path of disputing the cost of every little item. So now I have an itemized list, and if they request it I'll give them a copy. The bill says material $ ... Labour ...$. Rarely do I give a copy of material list. Just like mileage, people hated paying it, so now no mileage charge just hourly rate from town till I get back to town. (shop to shop). Even though this is more money, people don't whine.


Agreed, its all in how its presented to the customer, its almost a game because you can give someone a screaming deal and they still complain, its just in there nature


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