# Being an apprentice



## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I am new to this forum and pretty young, a third year. 

I would like to hear some of your stories working under a journeyman as an apprentice. 

I have worked under three great journeyman now, but I have heard pretty bad things from fellow apprentices who have had to work under dicks. 

Of course I know as an apprentice you are here to learn and so on. And a great deal of that is going to be getting ****. 

Thanks,

Helgore


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

pffft....don't listen to those other apprentices. There are are no bad journeymen, just lazy, worthless, bubba-headed helpers.

Feel better?


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Not really because I have always been the perfect apprentice. :no:


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

hurmph


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Well I also have some grips as an apprentice, like the fact my boss refuses to use 3x4 closet 90s for our toilets. He insists we use 3 inch with the foam around them.

Also he has forbid the clinging of primer cans to shake out the excess primer so as not to spill it on the floor. As well as he insists we turn our closet collars to the side holes not the normal way because he says they are stronger.

So you can see as an apprentice even if you know you are right in what you want to do, you have to do what the boss says.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Helgore said:


> Well I also have some grips as an apprentice, like the fact my boss refuses to use 3x4 closet 90s for our toilets. He insists we use 3 inch with the foam around them.
> 
> Also he has forbid the clinging of primer cans to shake out the excess primer so as not to spill it on the floor. As well as he insists we turn our closet collars to the side holes not the normal way because he says they are stronger.
> 
> So you can see as an apprentice even if you know you are right in what you want to do, you have to do what the boss says.


Using the side holes is stronger, no matter what the flange is made out of, when I was running new high rise work any CI flanges that were shipped out with slots in them got sent back, and the supply house got a call complaing about shipping out crap material.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

yes that could be, but the flaw is you can not adjust the toilet at all if you use the side holes, as well as the Johnny bolts can slip out.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

all you need to do is know how to set a toilet and do it correct to use the normal ajustable slots in the closet collar.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Look it is kind of like turning the lettering on your pipe to face the same way when you plumb.

I do this, my boss hates it and says it is a waste of my time. It does not take any extra effort for me to do so it is pretty much instinct to do so now. 

I think it makes the job look more neat and professional. 

But as an apprentice I get **** for it.

Yet I do it anyway.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Helgore said:


> yes that could be, but the flaw is you can not adjust the toilet at all if you use the side holes, as well as the Johnny bolts can slip out.


I always use a tape measure to set the slots the same distance off the wall, is that not the correct way to set the closet flange T-Slots? :laughing:

I think 99% of us on here will tell you the single t-slot flange is for better then the the adjustable slot flange.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Helgore said:


> yes that could be, but the flaw is you can not adjust the toilet at all if you use the side holes, as well as the Johnny bolts can slip out.


Install the flange right the first time and this is no longer a problem.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

tell him to look in the code book!!


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Ron, 

As do I. 

I do as I am told where I work. Yet I am not always the one who glues down the cc

So that is why I would prefer them to be set so I can ajust them.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I have a code book right here, I guess if you like Plumbworker I shall look up the correct way to install a closet collar. I think you are wrong though


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Helgore said:


> Look it is kind of like turning the lettering on your pipe to face the same way when you plumb.
> 
> I do this, my boss hates it and says it is a waste of my time. It does not take any extra effort for me to do so it is pretty much instinct to do so now.
> 
> ...


Your character is being tested on a daily basis as it will be for the rest of your career. It toughens you up for the hardest careers in construction.

Closet rings? Never thought much about them as I use the slots and make sure the ring is secure. We're talking decades before any problem, if then.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Helgore said:


> Ron,
> 
> As do I.
> 
> ...


I would think as a 3rd period apprentice at that stage, why are you not setting the flanges yourself yet? 

Is your school a 4 year or 5 year apprentice school?


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I don’t see a thing in the uniform plumbing code book that states you must use the side slots. 

Too me this is just journeyman arrogance.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I do set them myself, in this company I pretty much run the jobs right now. Our journeyman is a fool.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

North Dakota is a 4 year program.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Helgore said:


> Look it is kind of like turning the lettering on your pipe to face the same way when you plumb.
> 
> I do this, my boss hates it and says it is a waste of my time. It does not take any extra effort for me to do so it is pretty much instinct to do so now.
> 
> ...


You might be one of the few apprentices that made it when I was running big jobs, I went through apprentices like water, journeymen at close to the same rate, because I had one standard, perfect. I never told anyone to hurry up and get it done, they were told to do it right the first time, and right meant everything was plumb and square so that carpenters could put in their studs without notching them for our copper wastes and vents. I spent over a hundred hours drawing waste and vent loops so that they were in chases the carpenters could easily build around, if you couldn't comply with that you were fired.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

And I am in no school here you start out and work your way up in a job. That is it. Your school is your job.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Then you would like me Killertoilerspider, trust me I am perfect.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

It won't tell you in the code, you learn from experience the best way. You will see, the adjusted slot flanges are weaker, they will weaken in time creating the wax seal to fail, or they will break, making for a hard repair if it needs to be replaced.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Maybe, but isn’t that what the service field is for?


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

When you switch from one journeyman to another it is a bit hard to unlearn what you have been told. I can see the point but I do not see the point in doing it. It will last long enough, for years.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Helgore said:


> Maybe, but isn’t that what the service field is for?


Your job is to do it right the first time, not to worry about keeping the service sector working. Perfect.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

of course I know this, but I see not a problem with using the adjustable sides of a closet collar. The wood will rote before I need to worrie about that I think. As long as you are smart and do not break the flange when you tighten the cc down you are fine.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I have never had one break on me doing it the right way, yet I have had the johhny bolts slip doing it the side slot way. So to me that is the wrong way.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Well when your do become a journeyman, it will be your option, just remember, there will be that next plumber to come in behind you, see the work you did and be cursing you out. Saying who the ***k installed the flange like this.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

yes fine I can see it is stronger but you don't need to snug down your bolts that much


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

yes that is why I never want an apprentice when I am a journeyman


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Helgore said:


> I have never had one break on me doing it the right way, yet I have had the johhny bolts slip doing it the side slot way. So to me that is the wrong way.


If you use the closet bolts that had the two nuts and two washer in the sets, you use the extra set to tighten the bolt to the flange, this secures it to it so it don't move. They won't move at all.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Helgore said:


> of course I know this, but I see not a problem with using the adjustable sides of a closet collar. The wood will rote before I need to worrie about that I think. As long as you are smart and do not break the flange when you tighten the cc down you are fine.


Exactly.

I worry more about whether you can sell ice to a eskimo, read a flat rate book, calculate sales tax, and sell ice to a eskimo.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I use what my boss gives me, and those are plastic johhny bolts.


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## M5Plumb (Oct 2, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> If you use the closet bolts that had the two nuts and two washer in the sets, you use the extra set to tighten the bolt to the flange, this secures it to it so it don't move. They won't move at all.



Thank you Ron!! :yes:


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

yes but my boss is old school plumbing, I had to talk him into PEX. We don't use 3x4 clost 90s I told you this


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

he will not listen to an apprentice. So...


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

from now on I will just buy the closet bolts from the whole sale house as you say


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Helgore said:


> I use what my boss gives me, and those are plastic johhny bolts.



Plastic Johnny bolts, all plastic? You you for real.  The bolts aren't all brass?

Tell your boss what I mentioned, see if he will get away from those crap bolt sets.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

and set the cc as you folks say, see I can learn too


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Helgore said:


> he will not listen to an apprentice. So...


I wouldn't listen either, it's my way or the highway young apprentice!:laughing:


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I hate metal Johnny bolts, I have done three remodel jobs this year where we had to reuse the same fixtures and had to use a sawsall to cut the old rusty spinning bolts out.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

it is hard to save them when you use a saw on them


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

That is why you use the double nut and washer bolt sets. Trust us, you will thank us the 1st time you try them.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I do trust you we dont have them here in North Dakota. I have never seen them. All we have is the crap plastic ones and the metal ones that spin. Tell our whole sale house or give me a brand name. I have great pull in my company  I would love to know


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

are you talking about the metal johnny bolts with the small plastic washer on them?


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

junk too


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

can I get a brand name??? please...


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

These are like them, they come with two nuts and two washers. See where I'm coming from now?


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

yes of course, we don't have these style here at the whole sale house.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

here most plumbing is bid very cheap and we use very cheap crap to make any money on the jobs


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Well I don't know what to tell you, I can only tell you is what I know, what works for me, might not for you, want to be known for superior work, install good products, have only yourself to blame if you have to fix something you know you should have done right the 1st time.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

how about 3x4 closet 90s?


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

are these legal in your state, and if so of course you use them right?


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Yes they are legal here, and no I don't use them.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

why don't you use them? for a ground work they are the best.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Maybe cause they cost more, I don't know, I just never felt the need to use them, I have no problem using a 4 x 3 closet flange, spigot or hub types in all the applications I have come across.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Way more important than which way the flange is turned is whether or not the thing is properly anchored or not, especially on a slab floor. I have not found a broken flange that was properly installed for as long as I can remember. Yes it's a pain in the butt to drill holes in concrete to receive tapcon (or similar) screws but that is how it should be done. A properly anchored flange will not break and if you try to overtighten the bolts the porcelain will crack before the flange will and that's another thing why are people cranking down on these toilet bolts to begin with? Finger tight and then with a socket working back and forth ONLY UNTIL THE BOWL WILL NOT MOVE! Once you get to that point, add 1/4 turn and your done! Period! As for bolts, I use all brass 1 3/4" X 5/16" bolts and virtually never have to cut the bolts because I don't overtighten them. When the flange is at the right height, I use these bolts and I can come back 10 years later and the toilet will not leak, rock, and the flange will not be busted (because I anchored it properly). One more thing, sometimes it can't be helped, a toilet must be shimmed. QUIT USING PENNIES OR COPPER TUBE SMASHED FLAT as shims! It doesn't work right. Use plastic shims (the narrow ones that are smooth on all surfaces). Which way the flange is turned makes absolutely no differance if the flange is properly anchored.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

In a commercial application the 4x3 90 closet 90 is the best choice because it can be set to finished floor.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

I used proper shims from the whole sale house, plastic correct shims.


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

well using a 4" pipe in an underground is much better, trust me on this. All you have to do is saw it off and boom slap in the cc.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> Way more important than which way the flange is turned is whether or not the thing is properly anchored or not, especially on a slab floor.



Smells have you ever done the flange like this to anchor it to a slab rough.

A tip I had on CT



Ron The Plumber said:


> Use extra brass closet tee bolts, attach the tips of the tee bolts with added nuts between the top of the flange and the bottom side of flange, in all the extra holes, just the tips only so the tee's are on the underside of the flange, set flange to your finished grade, when concrete gets poured, concrete will cure around these tee's and gave the flange a secure set.


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## invictus (Jan 19, 2009)

for undergrounds 4x3 90's are the only way to go if you ask me. 

More important than where you put the johnny bolts on is making sure you cut the pipe so the flange sits flush on the floor. I go through lennox sawzall blades like no tomorrow when I'm cutting the pipe. Nothing pisses me off more than when you go to set a toilet and the flange is 1'2 inch off the floor on one of the sides. I make sure the long side of the johnny bolt is positioned properly to get the most bite on the flange. I prefer the brass ones with a plastic washer thingy that snaps down to hold the johnny bolt exactly where I want it. It saves time when you set the toilet. Tell your boss the time you waste fighting cheap johnny bolts dwarfs what he thinks he is saving on cheap materials.


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## muck (Oct 10, 2008)

7 pages on closet bolts with Helgore double and triple posting, no wonder you journeyman give you a hard time.


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## super plumber (Oct 19, 2008)

muck said:


> 7 pages on closet bolts with Helgore double and triple posting, no wonder you journeyman give you a hard time.


I think Helgore is trying to get free t-shirt this weekend:laughing:


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

What's up with the 4x3 closet ells? I've never heard of such a thing. You guys have to run all your your toilet wastes in 4"? For residential we use 3" PVC flanges, cast iron compression flanges or lead bends depending on the application. On a commercial job we use 4" cast iron compression flanges or 4" lead bends.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree. That's how it's done in my area 95% of the time.



Helgore said:


> well using a 4" pipe in an underground is much better, trust me on this. All you have to do is saw it off and boom slap in the cc.


 

I don't use the plastic johnney bolts. They might be OK, but as a service plumber, I'm not going to use them until I start pulling 15 year old toilets with them that haven't had any problems. I'm just picturing a 500lb land monster plopping down on that toilet and those plastic bolts shooting off the toilet like a bottle cork.


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

After reading thru this, I think he should forgo the apprenticeship and just become an owner.


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

Is this a desire to really learn or do you just like arguing your point? You will always learn more by watching and learning from experience than talking. 

So you don't like the methods you have to use? When you are done cutting your teeth and earn you license - you can do it your way. Until then, a little more respect for those who have paid their dues goes a long way.


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## invictus (Jan 19, 2009)

Just get a pipe expander, one of the sweetest things ever made. Ask your boss about it.


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## Hyper Piper (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, they are in the same aisle as the pipe strechers.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Pipe stretcher. hehe.

I use 4x3 90s on my slab work. works real slick. I also like the johny bolts with the extra nuts, makes setting the toilet a snap.


Plumber Jim.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

invictus said:


> Just get a pipe expander, one of the sweetest things ever made. Ask your boss about it.


You mean this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stanley-No-19-A...1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Nice!
Can you find a sky-hook?:jester:
Or a bucket of steam?


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

This has to be some kind of a record. Three posts in a "Hello" thread and thirty-nine posts in this thread all in his first 5-hours of being a forum member. At this rate he should be in the lounge within four days and the top poster in two and a half months.

Mark


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Smells have you ever done the flange like this to anchor it to a slab rough.
> 
> A tip I had on CT


Never did that. Back when I was doing undergrounds I only stubbed the risers. The concrete guys tore too much of our stuff up anyways, no way we were leaving a flange hanging out in no mans land for them destroy. Besides that when they were simply risers, I never had to go cut one out and bust concrete because the floor didn't come out right for whatever reason. I have had supposed tile floors turn into linoleum which screws everything up. Stubb the riser and cut it off when the finished floor is done.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Marlin said:


> What's up with the 4x3 closet ells? I've never heard of such a thing. You guys have to run all your your toilet wastes in 4"? For residential we use 3" PVC flanges, cast iron compression flanges or lead bends depending on the application. On a commercial job we use 4" cast iron compression flanges or 4" lead bends.


Don't have to but it makes flange setting easy. The inlet of the 90 is 4" the outlet is 3" and is code approved at least in the IPC. To my knowledge it is the only place in plumbing where a reduction in diameter in the direction of flow is allowed. The riser coming out of the top of the 90 is 4" pipe with a temp cap. When you have a finished floor, you cut off the riser flush with the finished floor and glue the 4x3 flange INSIDE the 4" riser. Anchor the flange (or not I'll be needing the repair work in a couple of years).


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> To my knowledge it is the only place in plumbing where a reduction in diameter in the direction of flow is allowed.


Is the same way under UPC.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

Helgore said:


> Look it is kind of like turning the lettering on your pipe to face the same way when you plumb.
> 
> I do this, my boss hates it and says it is a waste of my time. It does not take any extra effort for me to do so it is pretty much instinct to do so now.
> 
> ...


this is what i was talking about look this up in your code book son...


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Helgore looks like you walked into a bear trap but I'm going to give you a thumbs up :thumbup:. Although you don't know it all as you seem tempted to think you might, it's obvious that you care about what you're doing. Anybody that thinks about which way the letters run on the pipe gives a rip about what he's doing and that is what we need more of in the business. You've been ragged on some here but don't take it personally and keep on thinking about what you're doing all the time. Keep caring about whether it's the best you can produce. Keep learning about how it should be and why (I bet most anybody on this forum will tell you they are still learning all the time, at least I hope they would). I say turn your flange anyway you want as long as you take the time and effort to anchor it! Always work on the essentials and don't get hung up on the things that really don't matter. If the code says it matters then it matters. If common sense says it matters, then it matters. Always do your best work whatever it is, however small it may seem. People pay for what you do and they should always receive your best.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

:bangin:How did I miss out on this thread. I must be slipping.:furious:


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Plumbworker:

You will not find in the code book a thing about lettering on pipe. But the city inspector does like to see this as well as if you have a clean flow it makes the job look much more neat. 

Maybe on your jobs you have huge primer runs and so on, but I like to make my work neat.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Helgore said:


> Plumbworker:
> 
> Maybe on your jobs you have huge primer runs and so on, but I like to make my work neat.


Would that primer run in my avatar be considered huge or just average? If it's not huge, I may still use it.


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

Helgore said:


> Plumbworker:
> 
> You will not find in the code book a thing about lettering on pipe. But the city inspector does like to see this as well as if you have a clean flow it makes the job look much more neat.
> 
> Maybe on your jobs you have huge primer runs and so on, but I like to make my work neat.


I can guarantee you this, with the kind of arrogance you have shown in this thread you would do shop duty for a month in the shop I turned out in. Then the first day on the job with me you would be cleaning out the van, you would either be humbled up or down the road.

We don't tolerate a lack of respect from apprentices, your job is to be seen and not heard, do what your told and don't talk to the customers.

It's a shame but this profession is surely going to he77 in a handbasket

In the code book it states, " In a workmanship like manner ", that translates to different meanings for each individual


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I want the 5 minutes of my life back it took to wade through 9 pages of crap.:thumbup:


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Helgore might make a good commission repair plumber, but on a new crew? Yikes. 

Picture this: The boss had to low ball to keep the cash coming in and the crew working. Every second is accounted for and here's Helgore lining up the letters on a pipe or debating closet flange technology with a tired ol' Journeyman.


I hope young Helgore is doing the boss' daughter because he'd be in for a real hard time otherwise.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Plumber said:


> Helgore might make a good commission repair plumber, but on a new crew? Yikes.
> 
> Picture this: The boss had to low ball to keep the cash coming in and the crew working. Every second is accounted for and here's Helgore lining up the letters on a pipe or debating closet flange technology with a tired ol' Journeyman.
> 
> ...


Lining up letters on PVC takes little to no extra time. Maybe you waste two minutes if you do nothing but glue PVC for eight hours. As far as the closet flange technology, our flanges only go in one way so their is no arguing it. Though I've been trying to get our boss to buy the flanges with the knockout so we don't have plugs shooting out of them during the water test and carpenters and electricians urinating down them during construction.


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> I want the 5 minutes of my life back it took to wade through 9 pages of crap.:thumbup:


 


*************:laughing::laughing::laughing:****************i HAD TO READ 10


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Marlin said:


> Lining up letters on PVC takes little to no extra time. Maybe you waste two minutes if you do nothing but glue PVC for eight hours.


 
i do it all the time and don't even think about it. if somebody told me not to do it, it'd take more time. i was taught to do it this way when i came up for the same reasons. it looks good, inspectors do like it and it's quick. it's not like i'm running the stamping on the copper all the same way.

as for the arrogance, it'll get you nowhere. everyone here is learning every day and the best will tell you they have the most to learn. nobody wants to work with a know-it-all, especially if they don't know anything.




paul


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Saying that if you correctly set the closet the flange will never break is both short-sighted and impractical. First of all, you want it to be as strong as possible. It is impractical to defend using the weaker slots whether you can set a toilet correctly or not. Plastic deforms over time, and there is no guarantee that if the toilet is pulled it will be reset by someone who will be as gentle with the bolts. For my money, I'll take the extra effort to get the flange square the first time so that it doesn't need adjustment.

As to lining up the lettering - I've yet to see someone checking to see if the lettering lines up. I pay more attention with plastic pipe to any curvature of the pipe and lay it so that there are no unwanted low spots. Whether it's hung in a crawl space or buried in the ground, I use any pipe curvature to my advantage, irrespective of where the lettering is. And I care far more about whether the pipe is installed with good workmanship than if it is installed by someone anal.

4" x 3" 90s are, so far as I can tell, completely unusable. Our UPC continuous waste and vent system requires that there be no flat vents except for structural conditions, and as one inspector told me long ago, being too lazy to dig is not a structural condition. My 90's would be too deep to be able to set them flush with grade. And I prefer the 4" x 3" flange to a 4" flange.

Usually, the first year of an apprenticeship is the toughest. If you've done your "wax on, wax off" stuff well enough, you should be advancing to more serious work. As a one-man shop for most of the last 33 years, I've done all the bad jobs myself, and were I young enough to be a third-year apprentice, I should think that there wouldn't be much to complain about. Either you are being purposefully and unfairly assigned the crap jobs or you aren't suited to the work.


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## brass plumbing (Jul 30, 2008)

add help is pro epoxy works better than shims, dries in mins & trimmed for caulking


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

Helgore said:


> Plumbworker:
> 
> You will not find in the code book a thing about lettering on pipe. But the city inspector does like to see this as well as if you have a clean flow it makes the job look much more neat.
> 
> Maybe on your jobs you have huge primer runs and so on, but I like to make my work neat.


it's in there UPC. maybe it's more of a ditch thing but where i work inspectors perferr to see the letting to see the grade of material used etc... primer runs? copper dwv and c/i


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## ryanpurdy (Mar 6, 2009)

hi everyone.
im having some difficulty finding an apprentice position to become a plumber in toronto canada. I undersatnd the economy is bad right now...
however, does anyone have any contacts here for me, or advice???
i have tons of experience in the field of renovations and landscaping and such, but i have always been interesting in plumbing. i am hardworking and very eager to start...

thanks let me know


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Canada?! haha this is a forum for American plumbers you dirty back bacon fool!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Helgore said:


> Canada?! haha this is a forum for American plumbers you dirty back bacon fool!


Isn't North Dakota part of Canada?


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Isn't North Dakota part of Canada?


 
Last time I went thru North Dakota it was the only state I ever went thru that actually removed the names of the towns from the freeway signs. :whistling2:


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Plumber, 

Kilgore eh? Lining up lettering on pipe will not take any more time. It is instinctive once you get used to it. You have to rotate the pipe ¼ turn anyway, why would it matter if you look where the lettering is?

I work for a small shop, and all our jobs are bid quite tight. All these jobs come in on time, and make money. It is not hard to make a job look neat. It is pure laziness and arrogance of a journeyman like you to think that apprentice cannot offer anything to the workforce. We make you look good.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

I hate whiners!


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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

Ironranger, 

Wow am I glad I don’t work for you.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks Bill for making that edit, 

Helgore, no reason to talk that way on here. Play nice. :yes:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

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## Helgore (Feb 27, 2009)

well retaliation is all I did, so post them to the user who broke your rules


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I fixed it did you not go back and see I did?


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## j.funk (Mar 31, 2009)

*TOTally*

im an apprentice to and i agree with you. put the letters out. and did u know that sometimes its code so the inspector sees what kind of pipe you used. and cling the primer all day long. i hate plumbers that paint the pipe. u want to be an hvac and paint the pipe like thier exhausts then be my guest


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

:laughing:.....................................................:laughing:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks for bumpinb this POS thread. Thanks a million.:furious:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Thanks for bumpinb this POS thread. Thanks a million.:furious:


I just read the whole fn thread :wallbash:.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

even though I never met Helgore on this board, I do miss him.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Helgore! Is that you!! 

Nay... tis but a brief glimpse of times gone by....


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