# Gas Piping Question



## Ron

Going to fix this on Tuesday, and no I did not put that temp fix on the cast pipe.


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## Tieger plumbing

*Tieger plumbing*



Ron The Plumber said:


> Going to fix this on Tuesday, and no I did not put that temp fix on the cast pipe.


 
While your at it why not tell em they cannot have a bushing on a gas line and it has to be replaced with a nipple and reducing coupling


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## Protech

NFPA code citation #?


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## Tieger plumbing

*Tieger plumbing*



Protech said:


> NFPA code citation #?


 
and AGA and |NFGC NFPA 54 :yes::yes:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

SInce it was brought up, that bushing on that gas tee is not to code, also, should have the appropriate length in a drip leg of some sort. 
I repaired a cast line not to long ago in a ceiling. I poked a hole through the bottom of it with my pinky. House was only about 40 yrs old. BUT, they are on a septic tank.


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## ILPlumber

Protech said:


> NFPA code citation #?


 
...


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## ILPlumber

Yank that bushing out and install a 6" nipple with a cap. 

Is there a valve upstream of the regulator?

Regulator vent?

Union adjacent to the regulator?


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## TheMaster

Is the gas pipe in rons pic cast iron? I see the code above and if you read number 5 it says "cast iron shall comply with the following" and then has a,b,c,d,e listed out with "B" highlighted as "No bushings"


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## ILPlumber

TheMaster said:


> Is the gas pipe in rons pic cast iron? I see the code above and if you read number 5 it says "cast iron shall comply with the following" and then has a,b,c,d,e listed out with "B" highlighted as "No bushings"


How are iron fittings made?


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## TheMaster

ILPlumber said:


> How are iron fittings made?


 Cast iron is a different metal than steel.


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## ILPlumber

You can continue this argument alone also.


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## Regulator

ILPlumber said:


> How are iron fittings made?


Cast, black malleable, steel, etc.


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## TheMaster

How about a milled brass bushing? those legal?:laughing: The problem with most threaded bushing is that they are threaded on the inside and outside of the fitting and it takes away from the wall thickness and they can split. I have some brass bushings that are long and the fitting is full thickness on each the fip and the mip. Its not double threaded inside and out on the same place on the fitting. Its milled out of brass. I will answer it for you. Its not legal but the reason its not legal is purely a technical one......its not the type of bushing the code was written for. I could get it passed if I wanted to. Exceptions are given everyday.


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## Redwood

TheMaster said:


> I could get it passed if I wanted to. Exceptions are given everyday.


How much would you have to pay Bubba Joe the inspector? :laughing:


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## Tieger plumbing

*Tieger plumbing*



ILPlumber said:


> ...


 
I think I stated bushing are not allowed on gas piping NFPA

Federally certified low pressure boiler unfired pressure vessel inspector

NYC certified low pressure boiler inspector and installer (ASME, NBBI)

Federally approved plumbing inspector

NYC and several other Master plumbing licenses

NYC Licensed master fire suppression piping contractor (NFPA)

Actually bushings should not be used in any plumbing application and drip legs are not required in many codes as some Billy Butt crack may remove the leg and start piping new gas lines from the drip connection and drip legs are not to be installed where they can be subject to freezing


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## user2091

UPC code 1209.5.8.4 is clear on this point too. I'm not sure that that is cast iron, looks to me to be black iron (malleable iron) These two are different. malleable iron can be use in this application. definitely needs a 6" nipple for the sediment trap.


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## user2091

*reducer*



Tieger plumbing said:


> While your at it why not tell em they cannot have a bushing on a gas line and it has to be replaced with a nipple and reducing coupling


 :thumbup: UPC 1211.9 branch pipe connection. When branch outlet is placed on a main line supply line before it is known what size pipe will be connected to it, the outlet shall be of the same size as the line it serves.[NFPA 54:6.8]


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## TheMaster

Ever look into the end of a flexible appliance connector's fitting? Those are approved right? Are they not threaded on the inside and out? I dont see the difference between a bushing and one of these flare X mip/fip. adapters that come with these connectors from the factory. I dont see a difference because theres not a difference. Anyone sees a difference please feel sorry for a small time hack and educate me.


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## Protech

I agree with TM. Steel is not cast iron. That's why there is a section for steel pipe and a section for CI in most code books. They are different materials. Period.

I don't see any cast iron bushings in that photo and that's why it's not against code.


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## Protech

Notice on subsection (2) that they specifically list both cast iron and steel. This further clarifies that the code differentiates between the two.

Sorry ILP, but TM has it right.


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## SlickRick

UPC prohibits bushings in concealed locations 1211.10


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## Protech

that doesn't look concealed


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## ILPlumber

Protech said:


> NFPA code citation #?





Tieger plumbing said:


> and AGA and |NFGC NFPA 54 :yes::yes:





ILPlumber said:


> ...





Tieger plumbing said:


> I think I stated bushing are not allowed on gas piping NFPA
> 
> Federally certified low pressure boiler unfired pressure vessel inspector
> 
> NYC certified low pressure boiler inspector and installer (ASME, NBBI)
> 
> Federally approved plumbing inspector
> 
> NYC and several other Master plumbing licenses
> 
> NYC Licensed master fire suppression piping contractor (NFPA)
> 
> Actually bushings should not be used in any plumbing application and drip legs are not required in many codes as some Billy Butt crack may remove the leg and start piping new gas lines from the drip connection and drip legs are not to be installed where they can be subject to freezing


I think you didn't state the location of that statement in the code. That is what Protech was looking for. 

People here want code citations not "It's in there somewhere."


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## Tieger plumbing

TheMaster said:


> Is the gas pipe in rons pic cast iron? I see the code above and if you read number 5 it says "cast iron shall comply with the following" and then has a,b,c,d,e listed out with "B" highlighted as "No bushings"


 
Nope not cast black Cast Balck is fine for steam and fire suppression systems (rated fittings) but cast is not ok on gas applications for the possibility of hidding a sand hole during castings


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## Tieger plumbing

I'm kinda sorry for bringing up the bushing on gas piping  It took away from the drainage cast iron topic


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## jeffreyplumber

*upc allows use of bushing on gas*

ok to use a bushing on gas but... shall not be used in concealed locations.... Most people say its illegal though... Most meter connections by so cal gas use them. Not too many people have died from it.... I dont know why everyones affraid of a bushing.


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## Tankless

100% correct. However I still can never bring myself to use one.....



jeffreyplumber said:


> ok to use a bushing on gas but... shall not be used in concealed locations.... Most people say its illegal though... Most meter connections by so cal gas use them. Not too many people have died from it.... I dont know why everyones affraid of a bushing.


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## drtyhands

jeffreyplumber said:


> ok to use a bushing on gas but... shall not be used in concealed locations.... Most people say its illegal though... Most meter connections by so cal gas use them. Not too many people have died from it.... I dont know why everyones affraid of a bushing.


Nipples can compress as the tapers match up.
A solid bushing or cast street fitting will not thereby possibly splitting the female fitting.

Thank-you SlickRick I've been asking about this for quite some time.Lazy me.


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## Plumbus

slickrick said:


> UPC prohibits bushings in concealed locations 1211.10


I don't know which addition you're using but in my CPC 2007 the verbiage you refer to is in Section 1211.3.2.


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## SummPlumb

Has any one EVER got any condensation out of a drip leg? I have taken some loose that were there for 40 years that are dry as a bone. Maybe the gas is different here.


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## Miguel

SummPlumb said:


> Has any one EVER got any condensation out of a drip leg? I have taken some loose that were there for 40 years that are dry as a bone. Maybe the gas is different here.


I have many times. It depends on when they come apart. ie: I've disassembled appliance drops during summer months and they're always dry. Most often they'll be dry (our gas supplier does a pretty good job of keeping the gas pure and dry. Not sure about out east where the gas is contained in huge storage tanks.

During winter months I've pulled drip legs to find "dampness" to the extent that it's make a spot on tissue paper. meh

If a drip comes apart with oil and filings in it I can usually be sure that I'll find alot of un-reamed piping and poor threads on that job!

Bushings? They started allowing them in our code about 10 years ago but they're still fairly strict about it _ie: don't reduce more than one pipe size; no nesting; try to avoid it; etc_
Most gasfitters here say nay-nay to using bushings on gas work. :no:


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