# What it shouldn't look like.



## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Had to go to a topout to fix a leak and to move the washer box. It's a good thing both were together. First time I've set foot on this job, and of course the craftmanship is nonexistent by all the trades involved. A/C guy cut in the wye and tied in his condensate line, no big surprise where it leaked.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Well at least he didn't tapped the condensation line to the vent, I see it before looking for bad smells.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Sh1t, sh1t, sh1t construction.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Stud guards


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

KoleckeINC said:


> Stud guards


They were installed when I was done. Insulation too since it's a garage wall.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

hammer aresters on HB's are needed here


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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

I never would have re-tied in that condensate drain. Move the laundry box and let the AC guy deal with it after. Not your problem.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

I like sparky's yellow romex running outside the studs in the first pic. That shouldn't be a problem lol


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

We need a 3" stack for laundry in new construction...I even had to tell one inspector...😵


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Plumber patt said:


> I never would have re-tied in that condensate drain. Move the laundry box and let the AC guy deal with it after. Not your problem.


I wouldn't trust the a/c guy to touch the plumbing again to tie in the condensate line. I'd rather not have to go back a second time.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> We need a 3" stack for laundry in new construction...I even had to tell one inspector...dde35


Wow, that's overkill


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## Plumberdood1 (Apr 23, 2014)

Why do you need a 3" stack?


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

Plumberdood1 said:


> Why do you need a 3" stack?


Because Florida state changed the code.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Plumberdood1 said:


> Why do you need a 3" stack?












The newer fancy washing machines discharge a lot of water very quickly into the drain.


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## CT18 (Sep 18, 2012)

Michigan is 3" also.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

At least you fixed the crown vent too


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> The newer fancy washing machines discharge a lot of water very quickly into the drain.




Tommy Plumber....so they are finding that the 2 inch trap cannot handle the volume of water exiting the newer machines?? Or is this something they are worried about the 2 inch line stopping up over time and they just threw in a 3 inch pvc drain line in for??? 

That seems almost impossible to believe you would need a full 3 inch drain to handle it....sounds like a lot of serious overkill to me.... 
So why not go with 2 1/2 pvc instead of destroying the whole wall??

Drywall guys are not gonna like dealing with the 3 inch stack in that 3inch wall plus stud guards.....


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> Tommy Plumber....so they are finding that the 2 inch trap cannot handle the volume of water exiting the newer machines?? Or is this something they are worried about the 2 inch line stopping up over time and they just threw in a 3 inch pvc drain line in for???
> 
> That seems almost impossible to believe you would need a full 3 inch drain to handle it....sounds like a lot of serious overkill to me....
> So why not go with 2 1/2 pvc instead of destroying the whole wall??
> ...











Mark, I don't know if the new machines are overflowing the older 2" drains or not. Years ago when I started plumbing, we were roughing in houses with 2" laundry drain lines {stack}. But sometime in the past, the code changed to 3" {stack}. 

If I had to guess, I would say that it just makes sense. How many gallons discharges from a W/M when it's set on 'large' load? Maybe 25 gallons? And it discharges in about a minute or so? I haven't studied the numbers, so I don't know, just estimating. But I think all will agree that it discharges the most volume of water in the shortest period of time of all the residential fixtures in the home. So perhaps the code writers wanted to make sure that the drain line would be large enough to handle all the waste water and suds. And perhaps a smaller 2" line doesn't handle suds as well as a larger 3" line.

I'd say FL is ahead {for a change.....:laughing:} and you guys in other states are behind on this one.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Mark, I don't know if the new machines are overflowing the older 2" drains or not. Years ago when I started plumbing, we were roughing in houses with 2" laundry drain lines {stack}. But sometime in the past, the code changed to 3" {stack}.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say FL is ahead {for a change.....:laughing:} and you guys in other states are behind on this one.



Thanks for the info..
well, you can have the lead on this one in Florida.... My wife has one of the LG machines and it dumps into a 1966 copper 1 1/2 drain line going into a 2 inch cast drain in the slab.... never had a problem yet

Instead of 3 inch, You would think they would go to 2 1/2 just to keep things manageable and less expensive in the walls.....
but maybe the inspectors who came up with this bull shi/ have never heard of that size before.....


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

I find that the new clothes washers are using less water and suds than 5 years ago. I find that they don't discharge enough water to test the sewer after an auger job


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

tim666 said:


> I find that the new clothes washers are using less water and suds than 5 years ago.* I find that they don't discharge enough water to test the sewer after an auger job*


 








I disagree to an extent. One of the tell tale signs of a main line stoppage is when the W/M drains, the drain may overflow, or the toilets bubble, or the home owner hears gurgling sounds in the W/M drain line. 

What fixture empties more water into the sanitary system than the W/M?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> Tommy Plumber....so they are finding that the 2 inch trap cannot handle the volume of water exiting the newer machines?? Or is this something they are worried about the 2 inch line stopping up over time and they just threw in a 3 inch pvc drain line in for???
> 
> That seems almost impossible to believe you would need a full 3 inch drain to handle it....sounds like a lot of serious overkill to me....
> So why not go with 2 1/2 pvc instead of destroying the whole wall??
> ...


 








You and I both know that the code mandates at least one {3"} VTR for an individual house. So why not put that on the laundry which dumps the most water into the sanitary system in a short time than any other fixture? The kitchen can have a 2" stack, as well as the bathrooms.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> You and I both know that the code mandates at least one {3"} VTR for an individual house................. .


not for a few years it hasn't


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> You and I both know that the code mandates at least one {3"} VTR for an individual house. So why not put that on the laundry which dumps the most water into the sanitary system in a short time than any other fixture? The kitchen can have a 2" stack, as well as the bathrooms.



Well I used to know that, back a long time ago... but for the past 20 years in our state you can run one 1 1/2 vent out the roof for the whole home... yes just one 1 1/2 stack even for a 5 bathroom home. 

Perhaps the code in our state seems lax but it has saved a lot of trouble attempting to get a 3 inch waste up a 2x4 wall that measures well under 4 inches.... I usually ran a 2 inch vent out with no dire troubles...

I used to dread hearing from the builder that the 3 1/4 inch pvc pipe was bulging out of the living room drywall wall.. and they expected me to somehow fix it...:laughing:

from what lax plumbing is allowed in our state, 
it just seems like a 3 inch stack for the laundry is some serious overkill to me

have a great day


.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I thought the IPC vent through roof was 1/2 the size of the building drain, 4" through foundation wall, 2" VTR. Ma is main vent stack min 3", anything else min 2" for any other VTR


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> I thought the IPC vent through roof was 1/2 the size of the building drain, 4" through foundation wall, 2" VTR. Ma is main vent stack min 3", anything else min 2" for any other VTR



so are you bragging or complaining???


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> so are you bragging or complaining???


A combination of the both.


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> I thought the IPC vent through roof was 1/2 the size of the building drain, 4" through foundation wall, 2" VTR. Ma is main vent stack min 3", anything else min 2" for any other VTR


I always run a full 2" main vent then increase to 3" before it exists the roof.
I'm in CT south of you so I'm not sure what MA requires.
I think I would be allowed to go out 2" but I prefer the full 3"

What about future vents on new construction are they still required? And is it an uninterrupted line or can it be on a shared vent?


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## 760GWS (Mar 16, 2015)

I like how the bibbs are turned a bit to the left...easier to attach and tighten the WM hoses, but not sure if hammer arrestor adapters would clear the front edge if installed. 

If I'm reenacting WM discharge I prefer to use the WM hose right into the standpipe, if the hose is in good shape etc. Which do you think puts out more GPM: WM hose (various PSI) vs. WM discharge line?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

CTs2p2 said:


> I always run a full 2" main vent then increase to 3" before it exists the roof.
> I'm in CT south of you so I'm not sure what MA requires.
> I think I would be allowed to go out 2" but I prefer the full 3"
> 
> What about future vents on new construction are they still required? And is it an uninterrupted line or can it be on a shared vent?



1 min 3" and yes 2" min future vent tied in with venting system. Dedicated cents only for pneumatic pumps


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

I've herd of this code change in my area, never been enforced but it only applies to a washmachine box with a laundry sink above that tee. They want you to use a 3x2x2 tee. If it's wash machine only 2" is still ok.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> I thought the IPC vent through roof was 1/2 the size of the building drain, 4" through foundation wall, 2" VTR. Ma is main vent stack min 3", anything else min 2" for any other VTR



the only problem this state has had is the 1 1/2 vent freezes off solid in a bitter winter month... I usually run a 3 inch pipe up through the roof to prevent this but you can drive all around this city and see thousands of homes with 1 1/2 vents popping up and out the roofs..... 

The plumbing systems really DO get sluggish when below zero temst happens

I would not like to go back to the old ways but this small vent out the roof should be outlawed.

the people in charge of the codes here in our state 
dont seem to have a clue about this issue.....


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Bayside500 said:


> not for a few years it hasn't










When did it change? Now that you mention that, I remember taking a code update class around the year 2000 or so and the instructor mentioning something about not needing 3" vents in FL like up north since we don't get the freezing temperatures for extended periods of time.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Illinois requires on main stack at least 3", all terminations through the roof at least 3" increased at least 12" below the roof line for frost closure.

2" vent max developed length 100' with a max of 20' horizontal. More than that you need to increase to 3" while rolling up to the vent from holding water.

Years ago Illinois would use traps for variable pump discharges required to be 2 DFU for every 1GPM. They changed that to a minimum of 2" waste (laundry) and you can tie a laundry sink into that 2" vertical waste by stacking a tee.

Never make a direct connection to an AC condensation drain, (always an indirect) bacterial growth back up that line is a primary cause of Legionnaires.


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