# Problem with brass or is it my teflon tape.



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I have had some problems with China and Taiwan brass lately. The leaks are at the threads. I am using a teflon tape that is called Blue Monster. A coworker believes that its because of the tape, he had some problems blamed it on the tape, and quit using it. Since he quit using it he says he has no more problems, for the most part. I find it hard to believe that tape could be the problem.

So, what do you think?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I use tape and dope on everything metal. Foreign pipe and fittings suck.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

jjbex said:


> I use tape and dope on everything metal. Foreign pipe and fittings suck.



Same here, never had to redo a joint doing it this way.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm a tape and dope plumber too. No issues. :thumbsup:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Yep I do both on metal water connections. It's not always necessary, but it beats doing it twice.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Use domestic fittings. No troubles


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Yea stay away form China and Taiwan garbage.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

My last batch of FIP's 3/4" have really nice looking threads. But they thread all the way in and leak. I have had to pull apart two difficult connections that was a total PITA. I won't even eat Chineese food anymore. If their metal is this bad, the food has got to be just as bad.....meow


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Tape only, and I do use some Chinese fittings. No problems.


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## rex (Jun 13, 2008)

blue monster tape is the best never have problems with it ...and i use it more than dope


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

I use blue monster now too. It's good stuff.


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## kentdmo (Dec 15, 2008)

some of the non us stuff doesn't have taperd threads that is why they will thread all the way in and won't seal


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## piercekiltoff (Jul 22, 2009)

I have had a rash of bad foreign bronze/brass products. We had a 2" PVC male adapter threaded into a 2" bronze elbow that we put 24" pipe wrenches on that would not stop leaking - assembled multiple times, with tape, with dope/tape, etc. Looking at the fitting, I could see the weld marks in threads - like they laser welded the fitting together, then instantly turned around and tapped the threads with it still hot. Then, after everything cooled, the welds were still there to screw up the joint.

Very annoying.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I just started using the blue monster. I really like it. If you take a joint apart, the tape is actually still in the male threads. The cheap white teflon, it is gone.

Also use rector #5, with the teflon. No problems. 

If I get a questionable joint, or one where you cant snug it as much as you would like, I make a teflon and rector sandwich.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Indie said:


> I have had some problems with China and Taiwan brass lately. The leaks are at the threads. I am using a teflon tape that is called Blue Monster. A coworker believes that its because of the tape, he had some problems blamed it on the tape, and quit using it. Since he quit using it he says he has no more problems, for the most part. I find it hard to believe that tape could be the problem.
> 
> So, what do you think?


I CAME UP IN THE OLD SCHOOL ... In the 50's a yellow pipe joint compound "Hercules" it said on the can when running brass to brass always use lamp wick. Still use it today.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> when running brass to brass always use lamp wick. Still use it today.


When I go to the supply house and ask for lamp wick they hand me a tub of teflon packing. They haven't a clue.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> I CAME UP IN THE OLD SCHOOL ... In the 50's a yellow pipe joint compound "Hercules" it said on the can when running brass to brass always use lamp wick. Still use it today.


Where do you get lampwick?


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## plumbrsteve (Jan 16, 2010)

It takes longer but I chase all my copp fips with a steel nipple to groom the theads before the pvc mips, no problems, and these connections are usually the hardest to fix so it pays off


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

jjbex said:


> Where do you get lampwick?


The last lampwick I bought was from Wolverine Brass "candle wicking" 
page H-18 in their catolog, that was a bit heavyer than I was used too.

Bob Young a former member of PDL now a member of PIPDL
got me some in NYC I think that was called Quikwick was a single strand for threads only.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> The last lampwick I bought was from Wolverine Brass "candle wicking"
> page H-18 in their catolog, that was a bit heavyer than I was used too.
> 
> Bob Young a former member of PDL now a member of PIPDL
> got me some in NYC I think that was called Quikwick was a single strand for threads only.


Been asking for catalog from Wolverine Brass for 3 months now. E-mailed my salesman, & co. direct, nothing yet. They must have more business than they need.:furious: 
I would like to see what that candle wicking is too.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Don The Plumber said:


> Been asking for catalog from Wolverine Brass for 3 months now. E-mailed my salesman, & co. direct, nothing yet. They must have more business than they need.:furious:
> I would like to see what that candle wicking is too.


Here is a scan from Wolverine Brass PAGE H-8.

A strand of this coated with plumbers grease or pipe dope can work wonders. Pull a single piece from the strand and wrap it (the way the thread tightens) in the root of the thread then dope over the top.
Don't do this on gas!


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Is it new lead free brass? That stuff is more difficult to machine, so quality of threads may be affected.....not that any Taiwan or chinese stuff was much to brag about to begin with.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Was not my choice to buy Taiwan. I think I'll just be more diligent to get USA brass. Might have to change my whole approach to the well stuff. Also, I use the teflon and dope.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> I CAME UP IN THE OLD SCHOOL ... In the 50's a yellow pipe joint compound "Hercules" it said on the can when running brass to brass always use lamp wick. Still use it today.


I just about wont even allow Teflon tape to be on the trucks and I flat out refuse to use it unless it at at an appliance such as a dishwasher.. The teflon in my opinion will allow you to tighten the fitting too much and buid up stress in fitting allowing it to crack in the future.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Here is a scan from Wolverine Brass PAGE H-8.
> 
> A strand of this coated with plumbers grease or pipe dope can work wonders. Pull a single piece from the strand and wrap it (the way the thread tightens) in the root of the thread then dope over the top.
> Don't do this on gas!


I perfer to use string packing with slip nuts instead of rubber washers.

We also used to waxed candle wicking that we would use for packings on faucets and valves.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm a dope only type of plumber. I use T+2 dope from rectum seal. It has shreads of teflon tape in it.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

Rectum seal? keep that away from me. Its not the tape its the  foreign brass!


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

plumbrob said:


> Rectum seal? !


 
Oh man, I could of used some of that today. I had cheese coneys with onions and mustard yesterday, 5 way spaghetti and what was coming out of me today in sounds and smells was worse than 20 angry chinese diplomats stuck in a elevator.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I'm a dope only type of plumber. I use T+2 dope from rectum seal. It has shreads of teflon tape in it.


Wasn't me but I think you can get it from rockstar :laughing:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I like teflon tape. It works well as long as you have it running the right way, it's wrapped tight, it's not on the bottom two threads, and you pay close attention to how far the nipple/pipe has gone in, as it's easy to overtighten.


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## jointwiped (Apr 5, 2010)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Here is a scan from Wolverine Brass PAGE H-8.
> 
> A strand of this coated with plumbers grease or pipe dope can work wonders. Pull a single piece from the strand and wrap it (the way the thread tightens) in the root of the thread then dope over the top.
> Don't do this on gas!


Ha Ha..there ya go! Way to go P B ...
Teflon with brass or chrome with teflon never worked for me.
It was always Red Lead, and a strand of cotton wick; and larger than 1" was two strands twisted together!
Oh! and don't forget to run those strands across the tongue and lips so the spit helps while winding it on the threads. L O L 

I was in the garage yesterday, and a sob of a mouse chewed the livin s^&%it out of my ball of wicking.
My can of red lead is all dried up too; and they don't sell it no more! Darn!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> ...A strand of this coated with plumbers grease or pipe dope can work wonders. Pull a single piece from the strand and wrap it (the way the thread tightens) in the root of the thread then dope over the top.
> 
> *Don't do this on gas!*


 
Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but I must know why. I already feel silly for not knowing (or forgetting).


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

While doing my apprenticeship, the contractor I worked for did not buy teflon tape, we used pipe dope on all joints. He wouldn't even buy teflon tape for installing the shower arm on the finals. So all we used was dope.

Now, though I always use teflon tape first then dope on copper male adapters. Better safe than sorry. But on outside hose spigots, for example, I'll only use pipe dope.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Years ago we were getting bad black pipe and it threaded awefully. I done one gas job and had leaks everywhere using rectorseal, we even bought new dies to no betterment. :furious: After using tape and pipe dope both it sealed, I use both all the time since then.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Not sure if you can still get it or nit, y'all heard of X-pando? No leaks, but pity the fool who ever has to take it apart! Don't think it can be used on potable though.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The guys at the gas company swear by that stuff around here. Supposedly the best stuff for gas. I was told by an old service manager that the stuff actually expands slowly after threading and fills any voids in the threads and then cures. Never used it myself. He says it was great if you had to work with some old/gnarly threads. Like you say though, when it sets, you better break out the torch cuz that's the only way your going to to get that connection apart again.



U.A.til.I.die said:


> Not sure if you can still get it or nit, y'all heard of X-pando? No leaks, but pity the fool who ever has to take it apart! Don't think it can be used on potable though.


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## accobra88 (Nov 8, 2010)

I use lamp wick and gray pipe dope ... on chrome brass pipe and never a leak.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

It's funny how guys will get out a 24" pipe wrench, and Blue Block, (the hardest loctite type thread sealant you will ever see.) and proceed to tighten a 1/2" fitting to the point of bury-ment, on a 1/2 psi system. :yes:

New word!! Bury-ment. Adj. , to bury the threads of the pipe too deep into the fitting., to overtighten a pipe into a fitting.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> ...New word!! Bury-ment. Adj. , to bury the threads of the pipe too deep into the fitting., to overtighten a pipe into a fitting...


 
:laughing::laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

So why would wicking NOT be recommended for gas?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> So why would wicking NOT be recommended for gas?


Part of its sealing properties is the wicking expanding as it gets wet which will not happen with gas.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

The problem isn't the method of sealing or lubricating threads. It is crappy yellow junk brass imported from who knows where. For my fellow Masters... do not plan on teaching your new apprentices about the value of good red brass. Rather telling the stories of when we used to have it.

Domestic fittings solve the problem. You know the quality of materials is getting bad when nuts on 1/4 compression unions split.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Not sure if you can still get it or nit, y'all heard of X-pando? No leaks, but pity the fool who ever has to take it apart! Don't think it can be used on potable though.


Our shop has *EXPANDO,* which is great stuff, to get it apart can be a problem. If you have the access, you can rap the fitting with a hammer and break the seal, and it unscrews. I also carry *KEY-TITE* on my van. It is very plastic, very thick, I used it on a piece of 3" black pipe in a air line that had running threads instead of tapered threads cut into it. It didn't stop the leak, but was able to seal it enough so the compressor didn't run 24-7. I then changed out the nipple during the next line changeover.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> I use blue monster now too. It's good stuff.


Need to stay away from that crap! We've had major issues with monster tape flaking/dissolving? ; then the tape proceeds to get stuck into control valves, backflow preventers, etc downstream.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

d78coots said:


> Need to stay away from that crap! We've had major issues with monster tape flaking/dissolving? ; then the tape proceeds to get stuck into control valves, backflow preventers, etc downstream.


That's good to know.


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## sigshooter71 (Dec 8, 2010)

teflon & dope works for me & common sense when tightening fittings. Theres always a nipple or bushing that seems to never get tight it enough. **** happens.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*Son of a*

So are you all saying I should just pitch this tape before it comes back as a disaster in callbacks? 

I've used real heavy tape like this before that was white, had good luck and a roll would last weeks instead of one week. Certainly not the same brand name.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

jjbex said:


> Our shop has *EXPANDO,* which is great stuff, to get it apart can be a problem. If you have the access, you can rap the fitting with a hammer and break the seal, and it unscrews. I also carry *KEY-TITE* on my van. It is very plastic, very thick, I used it on a piece of 3" black pipe in a air line that had running threads instead of tapered threads cut into it. It didn't stop the leak, but was able to seal it enough so the compressor didn't run 24-7. I then changed out the nipple during the next line changeover.


 

You're probably old enough to remember this, but remember the red gasolia for gas work? 

Used to harden like red ceramic glass. May the force be with you if you could get those joints wrenched back apart.


I still run into those gas lines constantly, blowing out veins in my eyeballs and hemmorhoids out my discharge hamper. :laughing:


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

d78coots said:


> Need to stay away from that crap! We've had major issues with monster tape flaking/dissolving? ; then the tape proceeds to get stuck into control valves, backflow preventers, etc downstream.



I think blue mobster is the best tape to ever come out. Never have had a problem. *knock on wood*


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## Plantificus (Sep 17, 2009)

removed my question... should have read the whole thread...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Plantificus said:


> Tape on the outside then dope, or the other way around?


Tape, then dope.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

I was taught that anything over 1" doesn't really need tape. And of course it matters what the system pressure is.
I remember doing an air compression distribution run for a big warehouse. Our biggest black iron threaded was 2". The only way to stop the leaking at 120 psi was with tape and dope.

Our local AHJ doesn't allow foreign pipe on commercial jobs! Stay away from it.

I've also found great success with "Tru Blu" from rector seal. 
The job I'm currently on has a sprinkler system company from pensacola, fl. This is all they use! I need to ask them "why", again? I asked them before and if I remember correctly, their boss thinks that the mixture of tape with dope can cause failure to the tape over time. Don't hold me on that... I'll have to get back with ya the next time I see them.
Point being though is that sprinkler men deal with big threads and high psi on a daily basis. Their boss man can't think he's just trying to save a penny. Teflon is cheap and so is the extra labor of taping and doping (and heck think of the labor involved repairing a leak on a complete system???) He must have a real beef with mixing the two!


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Is there really all that much tape left on the threads when the joint is tightened correctly? I think most of the tape is pushed to the back of the threads.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Teflon tape is a lubricant. It's not what makes the seal....


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

slickrick said:


> Tape, then dope.


This works most of them time, but if you are using IPS pipe 3" or larger I have had the best luck with using bed sheets cut into strips and then treated liberally with X-Pando mixed on the heavy side and using 60" chain tongs to tighten the joints.


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## Jayk (Apr 21, 2011)

*Domestic Teflon*

Have you tried Merco Tapes #M 66 Teflon Tape? 

It is made in the USA not an import like the Blue Monster brand. It is competitively priced and out performs Blue Monster.

If you require a Teflon with higher density then use M 77.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I have a ball of candle wicking around somewhere from the old days, But if you're in a tight pinch, use a a strand from an old string mop. Doubles as packing, too. Generally use tape & teflon dope on threaded joints, but will break out the blue dope for gas lines.


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