# Steam Explained



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Found a great site that goes into to detail about steam 

http://www.armstronginternational.com/college-of-steam-and-condensate-systems


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks for the link. I never get to work with steam so I look forward to reading up on it. I just can't believe it's free.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

RealCraftsMan said:


> Thanks for the link. I never get to work with steam so I look forward to reading up on it. I just can't believe it's free.


 Get yourself a " TLAOSH " book!


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

A lot of you young fellas have never seen steam systems let alone have to work on them and truthfully, you probably never will as more and more of them go by the wayside in favor of newer, more efficient ways to heat take over. I started my career working on low and hog pressure heating boilers and process boilers back in the early 70's in Boston. www.heatinghelp.com and any of Dan Holahan's books on steam are a good read and a good place to start learning. Also the Peerless boiler company used to put out some real nice books on steam


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I have demoed and installed steam! One time we did a steam heat exchanger for domestic water at a hospital ... And a few other where low pressure steam systems for humidifier systems. But your rite we don't do it much and it is dieng out !!


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> A lot of you young fellas have never seen steam systems let alone have to work on them and truthfully, you probably never will as more and more of them go by the wayside in favor of newer, more efficient ways to heat take over. I started my career working on low and hog pressure heating boilers and process boilers back in the early 70's in Boston. www.heatinghelp.com and any of Dan Holahan's books on steam are a good read and a good place to start learning. Also the Peerless boiler company used to put out some real nice books on steam


I imagine in a lot of places it is dying out. Around here though I work on a good bit of it, all residential. I've replaced more steam boilers than hot water boilers. A lot of old houses here, people would rather drop $3,000 to $6,000 into replacing the boiler, than $9,000 to $14,000 to refit the house with HVAC.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I was taught on steam. Most commercial building were steam here then all of a sudden systems were being changed to hydronics. Never really understood why some contractors were pushing the hydronics when steam was the way to go

Only thing I can see is they didnt understand it

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

steam is garbage and can be very dangerous children can be very badly burned just by touching a rad and when you hear supported pipes just rattling it always makes you weary to be around not to mention how corrosive the condensate is other then that they are very easy to work on and you dont have to drain it lol..


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Mike Jessome said:


> steam is garbage and can be very dangerous children can be very badly burned just by touching a rad and when you hear supported pipes just rattling it always makes you weary to be around not to mention how corrosive the condensate is other then that they are very easy to work on and you dont have to drain it lol..


Where did you get that idea from?

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike Jessome said:


> steam is garbage and can be very dangerous children can be very badly burned just by touching a rad and when you hear supported pipes just rattling it always makes you weary to be around not to mention how corrosive the condensate is other then that they are very easy to work on and you dont have to drain it lol..


 Careful what u saying about steam, Mike.. tell me how many children were burnt by steam radiator? Vs other burns? Did u touch it once? If so, considered it a lesson. If the system is properly maintained, it can be most quiet, comforable heat.


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

In Vancouver the University of BC main campus is all steam driven even the new buildings, as well as BCIT main campus. We also have several new buildings that are steam heated. Haven't done any residential work but condo towers are another thing, biggest thing that seems to go is gasket seals. Love playing with the older toys.


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> steam is garbage and can be very dangerous children can be very badly burned just by touching a rad and when you hear supported pipes just rattling it always makes you weary to be around not to mention how corrosive the condensate is other then that they are very easy to work on and you dont have to drain it lol..


Maybe its garbage to you cause you don't understand it. It takes a lot of skill to troubleshot and work on any type of steam system especially high pressure steam


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> steam is garbage and can be very dangerous children can be very badly burned just by touching a rad and when you hear supported pipes just rattling it always makes you weary to be around not to mention how corrosive the condensate is other then that they are very easy to work on and you dont have to drain it lol..


You sure are out spoken about a lot if things lately! Steam makes most of our electricity!! You sound like your scared of steam??


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Lmp said:


> Maybe its garbage to you cause you don't understand it. It takes a lot of skill to troubleshot and work on any type of steam system especially high pressure steam


 Thank you, Lmp


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> You sure are out spoken about a lot if things lately! Steam makes most of our electricity!! You sound like your scared of steam??


Mike, you must be afraid of tea kettle...


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## wundumguy (Apr 3, 2010)

I value steam systems higher than hot water systems by a big margin. If it were entirely up to me, my next home would be built with a steam system.

We have a steam utility in Vancouver. Central Heat Distribution Ltd. supplies steam for heating to a couple hundred buildings in the downtown core, including Shaw Towers, BC Place, Rogers Arena, Pacific Centre. Steam systems are used at Vancouver General Hospital, some public schools, commercial laundering services, and industrial operations around the Vancouver area.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

The latent heat of vaporization is sweet when It finally produces the sensible heat of steam ! :thumbup:


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Like making beer in a brewery! :thumbup:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

In depth http://www.armstronginternational.com/files/common/allproductscatalog/consguidelines.pdf

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I have worked on more steam heaters than anything else. Once you know how to look at the pipes n set everything up right it is great. I have had a few phone calls saying how much better there house heats up after I fixed what many others screwed up or walked from. lol


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## ]3ones (Jun 9, 2011)

Steam is not ideal for home/comfort heating that's why its getting phased out of the residential sector. It cost to much to operate and maintain. Controlling it is nearly impossible. Obviously its got its benefits which are more useful in process industry than comfort heating. Bottom line is you use steam when you need power. 

So leave the steam to Steamfitters. jk


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

]3ones said:


> Steam is not ideal for home/comfort heating that's why its getting phased out of the residential sector. It cost to much to operate and maintain. Controlling it is nearly impossible. Obviously its got its benefits which are more useful in process industry than comfort heating. Bottom line is you use steam when you need power.
> 
> So leave the steam to Steamfitters. jk


 Good call!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

]3ones said:


> Steam is not ideal for home/comfort heating that's why its getting phased out of the residential sector. It cost to much to operate and maintain. Controlling it is nearly impossible. Obviously its got its benefits which are more useful in process industry than comfort heating. Bottom line is you use steam when you need power.
> 
> So leave the steam to Steamfitters. jk


 Who the hell are you for saying this garbage? I've seen and worked on steam systems that are more energy efficent on certain type of home and building. 
Are you a steam fitter?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Who the hell are you for saying this garbage? I've seen and worked on steam systems that are more energy efficent on certain type of home and building.
> Are you a steam fitter?


 Are you?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Dead Men tell no lies.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

pilot light said:


> Are you?


 Yes...


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Yes...


 Iam not but I work with steamfitters. I have found most applications are for processing plants. Yes some residential and commercial applications have been built and heated with steam. Yes... Go ahead!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Who the hell are you for saying this garbage? I've seen and worked on steam systems that are more energy efficent on certain type of home and building.
> Are you a steam fitter?


Many businesses do not run enough to see a ROI trying to accomplish this task.:no:


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## ]3ones (Jun 9, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Who the hell are you for saying this garbage? I've seen and worked on steam systems that are more energy efficent on certain type of home and building.
> Are you a steam fitter?


lmao 
yes I am a steamfitter and have worked on lots of steam applications. Seen and serviced steam from Single pipe low pressure heating that i can bet you have never even seen working to more complex vacuum systems and Co-gen plants.

Any system can be modified to be "energy efficient" depending on the equipment and its application. Now I'm talking about Steam Heating compared to Hydronic heating and believe me its pains me to say its but, you gotta be a damn fool to think you have more control and comfort with steam when it comes to "Home/Building COMFORT heating". It wouldn't be getting phased out of the residential sector if otherwise, we'd still be installing it.


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## ]3ones (Jun 9, 2011)

"Single pipe low pressure heating that i can bet you have never even seen working"

I take that back if your from Chicago. Odds are you might of.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

]3ones said:


> lmao
> yes I am a steamfitter and have worked on lots of steam applications. Seen and serviced steam from Single pipe low pressure heating that i can bet you have never even seen working to more complex vacuum systems and Co-gen plants.
> 
> Any system can be modified to be "energy efficient" depending on the equipment and its application. Now I'm talking about Steam Heating compared to Hydronic heating and believe me its pains me to say its but, you gotta be a damn fool to think you have more control and comfort with steam when it comes to "Home/Building COMFORT heating". It wouldn't be getting phased out of the residential sector if otherwise, we'd still be installing it.


 I've worked on vapor/vaccum system in 1915 era buildings and homes... reason for being phased out is those don't understand the system and pushed for forced crap air systems. Futher demise of the system also blamed on the general public panic mentality of asbesto insulation removal on the system and not replacing it.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Many businesses do not run enough to see a ROI trying to accomplish this task.:no:


 Again that where the problem lies... Most hvac don't understand the gas in the steam system... 
I've improved the efficenly(sp) of the system by repiping the new boiler and proper venting as well with correct controls by 20 to 25 % .


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> I've worked on vapor/vaccum system in 1915 era buildings and homes... reason for being phased out is those don't understand the system and pushed for forced crap air systems. Futher demise of the system also blamed on the general public panic mentality of asbesto insulation removal on the system and not replacing it.


 Calling all Laggers Then?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Again that where the problem lies... Most hvac don't understand the gas in the steam system...
> I've improved the efficenly(sp) of the system by repiping the new boiler and proper venting as well with correct controls by 20 to 25 % .


I am a plumber with a good knowledge of controls, burners, and heat reclaimers in a stack. Problem with a better burner and better controls is the ROI and the other fact that it doesn't really boost the AFUE.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> I am a plumber with a good knowledge of controls, burners, and heat reclaimers in a stack. Problem with a better burner and better controls is the ROI and the other fact that it doesn't really boost the AFUE.


Oh bullshoit... if the system and/or near boiler pipings is not done to the detail of the gas system, no matter what burner or controls will lose the efficency or afue.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Oh bullshoit... if the system and/or near boiler pipings is not done to the detail of the gas system, no matter what burner or controls will lose the efficency or afue.


If I am reading this correctly, we are on the same page...I think.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> If I am reading this correctly, we are on the same page...I think.


Not trying to be an a$$ here...I just don't think I followed the last response correctly.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

are we talking about afue eff. ratings for Steam! Read rating plate.:laughing:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Oh bullshoit... if the system and/or near boiler pipings is not done to the detail of the gas system, no matter what burner or controls will lose the efficency or afue.


Near piping has nothing to do with the boilers efficiency. Equalization, yes. Safety, yes.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

boiler efficency is posted on the rating plate as input and output. Eff is usually found by dividing!:jester:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Repiping or reconfiguring the piping system will not affect the eff of a piece of heating equipment..... It is what it is. 

It will however increase the eff of distribution to the heating zones or area...

Just in case you don't understand ... If the heat from the system does not get to the heat zones or areas to satisfy the stat there will be a lack of heat in those areas which will keep the heating equipment on a permanent call for heat

But on the heating equipment end of things it will reach high limit temp and cycle all day long

So more or less it takes both to make a system to satisfy the needs of what ever temperature you require in the structure

Sent from my miniature laptop


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