# Moen faucetry=GARBAGE



## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

Holy crap. I just tried to repair a one year old moen banbury kitch faucet with the plastic innards. Turned it into a awkward white art installation. I will now be telling all my customers what junk moen is putting out until they, at the very least, put a brass bonnet in there instead of plastic. Cheap bass-turds. Sellin their company name down the river to save a buck.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Plumbersteve said:


> Holy crap. I just tried to repair a one year old moen banbury kitch faucet with the plastic innards. Turned it into a awkward white art installation. I will now be telling all my customers what junk moen is putting out until they, at the very least, put a brass bonnet in there instead of plastic. Cheap bass-turds. Sellin their company name down the river to save a buck.


Been telling customers that for a few years. Delta is hardly better, which sucks. 

Matter of fact I went out this am on a 2-handle Delta, few years old. Divertor was failing, sprayer not so great. Easy repair, but you want to believe they would last longer without needing a repair.


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

What brand do you hock?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

American std sink faucets are no better in design.. divertor in back of facet where u can't get at it to check it..


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Plumbersteve said:


> What brand do you hock?


Wolverine brass Essence line. This was a conscience decision after watching Delta get cheaper and cheaper. There once was a thread that got very nasty over it. I suspect there will be another debate when those haters see this.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I honestly like moen I had that same issue called moen and they overnighted me one next day put it in no problems the new one they sent was made out nf metal I can't remember if it was brass or not


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

Indie said:


> Wolverine brass Essence line. I suspect there will be another debate when those haters see this.


 
Yes it will:yes::yes: So far all the W/B endurance faucet i have installed have been great from day 1.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

130 PLUMBER said:


> Yes it will:yes::yes: So far all the W/B endurance faucet i have installed have been great from day 1.


What time frames are we taking here? I'm curious as to the actual life time of WB faucets. From a quality standpoint they seem top notch. Oh, and I might add that WB faucets are made with trade friendly installs. 

Put a couple of wide set essence in a month or so ago, could not have been easier.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Two handle WB KS are ok, their single handle kitchen faucets ain't so hot. IMO



I talked to the delta rep and they said the all pex DST is going to be improved and they are still making the brass 400 and the like. Although only one of my suppliers will even bother to get the non pex models.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

Since 2003, i have installed close to 100 faucets. We have only had 1 callback with a pull out faucet... it was a vacuum breaker issue . Also out of the 100 or so faucets that we have installed, most of the customers are repeat customers


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Back in the day you could tell a faucet by the weight.

I just repaired a Crane widespread lav faucet circa late 1960 early 70's.

Still have the Crane repair kit with O rings, washers, nuts, and concave seats, although the inventory is dwindling.

I will concede that water quality has alot to do with it, but what appliance in your homestead is still going after 40 years (other than spouse) .

Face it, we are in a throw away society and swayed by looks and flashy displays.

"Yes Maam, I know the Glacier Bay is nice looking but what about something that could last you 25/30 years"


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

For simple tub/shower valve... MOENTROL ( saying it in asl)


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Back in the day you could tell a faucet by the weight.
> 
> I just repaired a Crane widespread lav faucet circa late 1960 early 70's.
> 
> ...


 You want weight ?? Go Wolverine Brass !!! Get one of their 3 handle tub/shw valves ,,,, but be in the gym 4-5 days a week prior to ordering ! :laughing:

ALL GREAT STUFF !! 

my .02


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm totally on board with Moen's tub/shower fixtures. We change out t/s valves to positemps weekly. They're easy to replace through the hole without making a wall repair or needing a remodel plate(in most cases) but the kitchen faucets are dog crap dipped in vomit and electroplated with a nice "lifetime finish" 

I guess I still like their lav faucets ok.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumbersteve said:


> I'm totally on board with Moen's tub/shower fixtures. We change out t/s valves to positemps weekly. They're easy to replace through the hole without making a wall repair or needing a remodel plate(in most cases) but the kitchen faucets are dog crap dipped in vomit and electroplated with a nice "lifetime finish"
> 
> I guess I still like their lav faucets ok.


 Remember, I said Moentrol... not those Postish÷t valve


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Customer I'm working for tomorrow... second time in 2 years I'm charging her for a $30 1225B cartridge and my labor to tear down their kitchen sink faucet, made by Moen.

Shouldn't have to be replacing cartridges like that so often... but it does with that brand.

But I'm making money off of the product I don't care for.


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## Abel Plumber (Sep 3, 2011)

Im still convinced that the home dopey and sLowes faucets and tub valves are of a lesser quality then the ones we get from supply houses. Even though the manufacturers say they arent.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

i agree with you 100 percent abel


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Abel Plumber said:


> Im still convinced that the home dopey and sLowes faucets and tub valves are of a lesser quality then the ones we get from supply houses. Even though the manufacturers say they arent.


The tub/shower diverter valves are clearly different. You need mip adapters for box store valves.
Faucets are differnt too, they have plastic nuts to bolt it down and supplys are not copper either.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Agree, if it was a plastic body and guts it was most likely bought at homey or lowes. I really like moen products. Easy to install, repair, find parts, and customer service is good too.


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## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

Abel Plumber said:


> Im still convinced that the home dopey and sLowes faucets and tub valves are of a lesser quality then the ones we get from supply houses. Even though the manufacturers say they arent.


They are and they aren't. All the innards are the same, the differences are things like plastic v brass popup and so forth


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I likes the Grohe.

Bulletproof and same/same no matter where you buy it.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Indie said:


> Wolverine brass Essence line. This was a conscience decision after watching Delta get cheaper and cheaper. There once was a thread that got very nasty over it. I suspect there will be another debate when those haters see this.


 
If you want to push cheap no name faucets give this a try, lots of profit could be made, I can hook you up with a good vendor. 
http://www.premierfaucet.com/homepage.asp


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Customer I'm working for tomorrow... second time in 2 years I'm charging her for a $30 1225B cartridge and my labor to tear down their kitchen sink faucet, made by Moen.
> 
> Shouldn't have to be replacing cartridges like that so often... but it does with that brand.
> 
> But I'm making money off of the product I don't care for.


Why are you charging her for a cartridge that is guaranteed for life?:whistling2:

1-800-BUYMOEN shipped next day.


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## harplg (Mar 16, 2012)

*plumber*



Plumbersteve said:


> Holy crap. I just tried to repair a one year old moen banbury kitch faucet with the plastic innards. Turned it into a awkward white art installation. I will now be telling all my customers what junk moen is putting out until they, at the very least, put a brass bonnet in there instead of plastic. Cheap bass-turds. Sellin their company name down the river to save a buck.


I agree just put one in for a customer and thought the same


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> If you want to push cheap no name faucets give this a try, lots of profit could be made, I can hook you up with a good vendor.
> http://www.premierfaucet.com/homepage.asp


Are you saying that Wolverine Brass is a cheap no name faucet? The idea of Wolverine is to push quality well built faucets that last a long time.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Isnt the idea of the wolverine brass faucet to force the consumer to contact the installing plumber for warranty work. 

From what ive read here, when the wb faucet fails they try to get parts, fail, yank it out and install a delta from home depot.

I could be wrong. Im thinking there is a thread to that effect around here....

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Indie said:


> Are you saying that Wolverine Brass is a cheap no name faucet? The idea of Wolverine is to push quality well built faucets that last a long time.


 
:yes: How many people who are not plumbers have heard of them?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> :yes: How many people who are not plumbers have heard of them?


Proprietary doesn't help you one single bit when you need something 'right fricking now'.

I'm not dissing the product itself, just the availability of OEM replacement parts when push comes to shove.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Why are you charging her for a cartridge that is guaranteed for life?:whistling2:
> 
> 1-800-BUYMOEN shipped next day.


REALLY ?

Why wouldn't you charge for inventory off your truck ?
If the customer had a cartridge sitting there waiting for me to install OK.

But if I have to make a return trip to install, it will be WAY cheaper to just charge for the cartridge and be done with it.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> Proprietary doesn't help you one single bit when you need something 'right fricking now'.
> 
> I'm not dissing the product itself, just the availability of OEM replacement parts when push comes to shove.



I would be curious to find out how often that situation actually comes up. Its made to sound like its every other day, when in reality its not.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Indie said:


> I would be curious to find out how often that situation actually comes up. Its made to sound like its every other day, when in reality its not.


It really only needs to happen once, Indie. I'm not disputing that it's a quality product, far from it. I am arguing though, that it is a closed product line with a closed repair path.

How many times have you gone out on a service call and heard that familiar 'crunching' sound of debris grinding up the valve, stem, seat or cartridge? A rebuild or replacement is the only logical path once that happens. Chasing proprietary, mail order only parts is the very last thing I want to have to deal with when that happens.

I'm not a big fan of Moen, Delta, American Standard or Kohler, but at least I can walk into a big box store or supply house and have a reasonable expectation of finding OEM or after market parts sitting there on the shelf.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> It really only needs to happen once, Indie. I'm not disputing that it's a quality product, far from it. I am arguing though, that it is a closed product line with a closed repair path.
> 
> How many times have you gone out on a service call and heard that familiar 'crunching' sound of debris grinding up the valve, stem, seat or cartridge? A rebuild or replacement is the only logical path once that happens. Chasing proprietary, mail order only parts is the very last thing I want to have to deal with when that happens.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of Moen, Delta, American Standard or Kohler, but at least I can walk into a big box store or supply house and have a reasonable expectation of finding OEM or after market parts sitting there on the shelf.


So long as I have repair parts for them I'm good to go. I would rather put them in and take the chance of having to deal with problems, but know I put a good faucet in for my customers. Never would have left Delta If they had not cheapened up their stuff. 

As for the situation of not having parts I run into that all the time with the amount of no name junk out there, where parts aren't available anyway.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> :yes: How many people who are not plumbers have heard of them?


I have some issues with Wolverine Brass products. Diverters on the sprayer faucets, limited extension and poor assembly design on the trip-lever waste/overflows. BUT...otherwise they have a very good product and stand behind it. I worked for a company that installed WB exclusively and another that used only their valves.
To argue that not many people have heard of a manufacturer's name, so the product is poor, is like saying " I never heard of McLaren, so they must make a crappy car."
We all know our likes and dislikes of products, but notoriety has nothing to do with it. 
I hate Rohl faucets, but I love them as well....it's like marriage.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Indie said:


> Are you saying that Wolverine Brass is a cheap no name faucet?  The idea of Wolverine is to push quality well built faucets that last a long time.


Wolverine is decent quality and very heavy but a healthy argument could be made that they are far from the "best" quality or value. Wolverine may well be as good as Delta or Kohler but I would hesitate to say it is better.

Like it or not, the customer's appeal to a particular brand and style are a significant part of the value. Wolverine rates a negative zero on that scale. 

Moen on the other hand rates very high for customer appeal but in my opinion, only average for quality and ease of installation.

Kohler is great for quality, customer appeal, and installation but they go out of their way to make stocking their parts impossible.

I think Delta is the best balance overall and I don't get the claims that they have lowered quality by eliminating certain brass aspects of their product. Heavy brass doesn't equate to quality, it equates to expensive (and of course, heavy).

I defy you to give me an example of a homeowner that can tell you whether or not a Delta lav faucet weighs less than a Wolverine after they are installed. Most of this crap is only stuff we perceive as relevant and we desperately want the customer to care. They don't. 

They care about what they want, what the TV commercial told them they want, what the bountiful box store display told them they want, what the pretty magazine article told them they want, what their designer told them they want, what their wife told them they want, or what the fancy showroom display told them they want.

Delta, Moen, Kohler, Grohe, and PricePhister play that game very very well.

Wolverine has never, is not now, and never will even be a waterboy in that game.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

ILPlumber said:


> Isnt the idea of the wolverine brass faucet to force the consumer to contact the installing plumber for warranty work.
> 
> From what ive read here, when the wb faucet fails they try to get parts, fail, yank it out and install a delta from home depot.
> 
> ...


http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/wolverine-brass-t-s-valve-8980/


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

But in my experience, when I've let the customer handle the faucet before i install it, they've been persuaded to avoid the stuff that feels chincy(sp?). The moen I referred to at the beginning of this thread was like that. Their original moen was of higher quality. The replacement that moen sent was all plastic, light, loose, and felt crappy.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Put that cartridge in, handle was dropping it back into the closed position. 

How we all know that it's too much silicone on the barrel, as always. 

A Delta Touch20 is soon to go in there if that cartridge fails again. 

Should only be putting a cartridge in that faucet once every 12-15 years, not less than 2. 

Water pressure is 60, no hard water, no buildup in the inlet screens.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> ILPlumber said:
> 
> 
> > Isnt the idea of the wolverine brass faucet to force the consumer to contact the installing plumber for warranty work.
> ...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> Signed,
> 
> Killer :innocent:


Killer with a halo. Ain't that a hoot. :laughing:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Killer with a halo. Ain't that a hoot. :laughing:


And to think it all started with the thread "Hey!"


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm sticking to my WB guns . After all these years of moen , delta , kohler changing parts and numbers and cheeping out ,,, NO THX! 
If a customer doesn't want my quality WB stuff ,,, I'll put their home-s**ty crap in , charge them my labor & profit , NO WARRANTY on their crap . 
The faucet companies have shown no loyalty to us ,,, I'll return the favor .


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Wolverine is decent quality and very heavy but a healthy argument could be made that they are far from the "best" quality or value. Wolverine may well be as good as Delta or Kohler but I would hesitate to say it is better.
> 
> *Many faucets are on the same level, and will perform similar for similar duration. With the exception of the lowest end pieces of crap. Wb is not overall better than what you have listed.*
> 
> ...



Still haven't figure out the other way to answer multiple parts. :blink:


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## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

Touche' Indie, I'm with you I push nothing but Delta all my faucets in my home are Delta!:thumbup:


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

so over the weekend, i dropped a couple buh on a proflow faucet from fergies. (i know you're all laughing at me, but this was the first new faucet I've ever owned) Have any of you ever put one of these in? it's the high arc, pull down, side control faucet. If not, I'm here to tell ya that it aint a piece of cake. I put it in my SS sink using the single hole configuration because I've got two soap dispensers, an insta-hot, and a well tap. When using the single hole installation, use have that bushing deal that goes on the bottom, ya know? Well, they put an o-ring in there. that was nice, but next to the o-ring, there is a shoulder, that I suppose was meant to fit down into the hole to keep the thing centered...problem is, that shoulder has a larger diameter than standard faucet hole size. I had to take it to the bench grinder and the results were less that great. The faucet works well enough, my wife likes it!! The only other problem with the faucet operation is that the pull out hose doesn't have a sheath under the sink, so it winds up rubbing on the stainless steel sink edge every time you pull it. How long can i really expect that to last?


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