# I know it's cheesy but......



## Ron100 (Oct 8, 2013)

I have seen before 1- 1/4" tubular PVC bag traps with a built in air admittance valve on the trap arms.

I need a couple for a quick fix.
Current brass trap adapters - 4 - stick out of a concrete wall.

Evidently; a new restaurant customer to us has been having problems for years.
No doubt it's venting related......we have jetters, cameras etc.

Thanks
Ron
Maryland


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

I usually just make my own like this.. use blue pvc glue to seal the fittings it will never leak..


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## Ron100 (Oct 8, 2013)

I know guys, we are pros, I'm a master....
Matter of fact took something like your pictures show out recently. Soon as I did, guess what, ? Smell went away.
Some idiot "plumber" obviously did not follow the venting tables...or get a permit.
That is why that company no longer services this rather large business serving 2000+ customers per day. This is the 'main ladies bath' I'm trying to band aid- for now.
FWIW- the new A O Smith 199 k Vortex was venting inside this business. That was immediately corrected.
Sadly, you really can't make this stuff up.

There is virtually no 'will' from the State level down to local jurisdiction to crack down on these fly by nighters. 

Now I have tile walls, granite counter tops, no access from behind, or top.
Pipes are embedded in concrete.

A major supply house, not Home Depot, had them (vented trap arms) a year or so ago.

I know the "sure vents " as high as possible to the FLR, will probably be my only option.

Trying to get a quick fix until Tourist season is over to figure out how to PROPERLY vent this nightmare. 4 sinks in series.
....and I have never seen 1-1/4 DWV fittings, all are pressure, specifically 90's. Of course I could break the cardinal rule, and probably will, by decreasing from 1-1/2 "sure vent and assemblies" back down to 1-1/4".


Appreciate sharing that pic with us though, they claim that is how the SARS virus was spread....


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

Is the trap syphoning or having drainage issues..? Any engineer drawings..? Maybe some crazy concrete work forced them to rough combination waste and vent.. AAV's are dangerous


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## Ron100 (Oct 8, 2013)

We have a "wall of shame" at one of our distributors where 'we' display this kind of non- sense.
I do hope your being humorously sarcastic in that pic...aren't you ?


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## Ron100 (Oct 8, 2013)

Yes, agreed maybe concrete work but still.....venting is venting especially on a copper 1-1/2" (really effective opening 1-1/4,)

Take off trap, insert garden hose - water flows into trap adapter all day long with out backing up.

Grid strainers instead of pop ups, got that right, no obstructions from grid strainers to trap adapters. 
The only bowl that drains properly is the one at very end. That's a good 8' away from the series of bowls. Should have been "battery vented".
All are exactly same, Kohler made. So there must be some sort of vent some where.

Here in Md., we can run up to 3' , on 1-1/2, before vent, be that wet or dry.
Thanks for your input.
Ron.


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## Ron100 (Oct 8, 2013)

Plumbworker said:


> Is the trap syphoning or having drainage issues..? Any engineer drawings..? Maybe some crazy concrete work forced them to rough combination waste and vent.. AAV's are dangerous


AAV's were recently approved by State Plumbing Board for use in Maryland.
Not the cheap Oatey black abs threaded, only "Sure Vents".


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

Do the sinks have overflow drains built in? 

Grid drains without overflows tend to be sluggish.


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## Ron100 (Oct 8, 2013)

Nathan901 said:


> Do the sinks have overflow drains built in?
> 
> Grid drains without overflows tend to be sluggish.


You may be right on !

(Light bulb in my head just went on, dahhh, - primer fumes must have burned out those brain neurons).

The overflow for these sinks are just hanging under the sinks.
They are connected to the 'ovalled' portion of the sinks overflow, (zip tied) but not attached to the solid grid assembly tail. 

Solid grid tail does NOT have the 'secondary' slotted overflow ports.

The existing grid assembly appears made for a 'vessels' lav.
"They" never installed that overflow collar to the tailpiece, wouldn't matter, no slot for 'collar' to drain into.

The less troublesome, (draining as it should) apparently is closest to the back vent.

Even though this is my second day doing plumbing, just joking, about 15 years as a registered master, I never connected those dots.

I'm not a 'flapper master', we get into some seriously big stuff.
I missed the obvious.

Thank you very much ! We'll give it a try, but I think YOU'RE right.
Will report back.
Ron


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## GrtLksPlbr (Aug 12, 2014)

Ron100 said:


> You may be right on !
> 
> (Light bulb in my head just went on, dahhh, - primer fumes must have burned out those brain neurons).
> 
> ...


A sure-fire simple way to check to see if the grid strainer is the issue is to stick a drinking straw through the grid to provide a vent. If it's the grid you should see a marked increase in drain action.

Some of the designer grid strainers with many very small holes can be a real problem. Surface tension of the water allows it to bridge the strainer openings, creating a vacuum and subsequently, slow draining action.


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## Ron100 (Oct 8, 2013)

All very good advise guys.
Thank You.
Turns out to be the overflow from the FLR bowl wasn't connected. 
The tail piece was brush nickel and I'm guessing they didn't get the right grid/ tail piece.
Threw a Shamrock grid with overflow in. Works perfect.
Now will go back and retro the others.
These lav's have been this way for over a year......
Ever tried to make chrome plated brass look like brush nickel by 'scrubbing off' the plating with a scouring pad ?
(The green ones for cleaning)
Counter guy says he heard it's done.


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