# Epoxy repair of steel drain pipe?



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

I typically don't do "patch" repairs. I am wondering if epoxy, such as Oatey's fix it stick, would repair a pinhole leak in an old galvanized drain pipe.


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

pianoplumber said:


> I typically don't do "patch" repairs. I am wondering if epoxy, such as Oatey's fix it stick, would repair a pinhole leak in an old galvanized drain pipe.


Commerical plumber doing handy hack now???


----------



## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

pianoplumber said:


> I typically don't do "patch" repairs. I am wondering if epoxy, such as Oatey's fix it stick, would repair a pinhole leak in an old galvanized drain pipe.


cut it out and repair it right you would regret the patch it would just erode beside the patch.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Sure it will...
Do it all the time...

Welcome to the forum!


----------



## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

pianoplumber said:


> I typically don't do "patch" repairs. I am wondering if epoxy, such as Oatey's fix it stick, would repair a pinhole leak in an old galvanized drain pipe.


Monster has this new tape that repairs leaks and hope in pipe. Try it I want to know if it works


----------



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

I expected negative responses. Like I said I don't normally do patch repairs. Actually, I never do patch repairs. I am a professional and I take pride in doing things right. That's why I am asking about a product I have never used in this application. If it were feasible ( meaning expense, of course) to cut out and replace a 4" Galvanized Wye, I wouldn't be contemplating band aides. Especially since there is nothing wrong with it as far as the owners of the building are concerned. Part of the building drain, it is in a horizontal position, so naturally, the pin hole is in the crown of the pipe on exposed threads at a joint. It was only discovered on a five pound air test. Otherwise there seems to be nothing wrong with it. It will be years until the rest of the pipe rots away enough to warrant the additional expense of replacement, especially since this would mean replacing the entire building drain in cast iron. Because I remodeled most of this building, my state requires the entire system to hold an air test. Putting epoxy on a miniscule pinhole is "hack", I agree. But if doing so saves thousands of dollars simply by allowing my air test to hold true, the building owners may hire our company back years from now when the steel pipe rots out more.


----------



## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

pianoplumber said:


> I expected negative responses. Like I said I don't normally do patch repairs. Actually, I never do patch repairs. I am a professional and I take pride in doing things right. That's why I am asking about a product I have never used in this application. If it were feasible ( meaning expense, of course) to cut out and replace a 4" Galvanized Wye, I wouldn't be contemplating band aides. Especially since there is nothing wrong with it as far as the owners of the building are concerned. Part of the building drain, it is in a horizontal position, so naturally, the pin hole is in the crown of the pipe on exposed threads at a joint. It was only discovered on a five pound air test. Otherwise there seems to be nothing wrong with it. It will be years until the rest of the pipe rots away enough to warrant the additional expense of replacement, especially since this would mean replacing the entire building drain in cast iron. Because I remodeled most of this building, my state requires the entire system to hold an air test. Putting epoxy on a miniscule pinhole is "hack", I agree. But if doing so saves thousands of dollars simply by allowing my air test to hold true, the building owners may hire our company back years from now when the steel pipe rots out more.


cut the pipe remove the nipple and replace that should be a simple repair.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

arie stratus said:


> Monster has this new tape that repairs leaks and hope in pipe. Try it I want to know if it works


 
I bought a roll of the monster tape and it actually did repair a leak in a galvanized water line at a joint.....

it would have been hell to have to change out a ton of pipes to get to this one leak, so I turned off the well
and wrapped the fitting with the blue tape real tight and let it set up for a few days...

it actually worked for me...


if it is just a pin hole ... take a fernco fitting and cut it longways down the middle and clamp it to the pipe with a ton of silicone??


 or why not just use DUCT TAPE??? :thumbup:


----------



## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> I bought a roll of the monster tape and it actually did repair a leak in a galvanized water line at a joint.....
> 
> it would have been hell to have to change out a ton of pipes to get to this one leak, so I turned off the well
> and wrapped the fitting with the blue tape real tight and let it set up for a few days...
> ...


Yeah that's what I'm talking about. Job done. Time for happy hour let's go


----------



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

Removing a 4" diameter pipe nipple that has started to rust at the threads, I know darn well will end up in disaster, and replacing of the entire Wye. Because of the location of the Wye, this would mean opening a large can of asbestos abatement and cutting and repairing existing galvanized hydronic lines. As well as cutting and replacing new work connected. I am trying to stay within the scope of what we bid for this job and what we are under contract to do. As this is a commercial remodel, the owners have already shelled out way more money than they expected for all the "surprises" that come up during demo and construction. 
As far as any kind of tape, I don't trust any to hold 5 PSI. Plus an inspector will look at it and say WTF? Epoxy might be discreet. 
If epoxy will hold 5 PSI, building maintenance and administration will be made aware of impending rot of this drain, and begin budgeting for eventual replacement.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

pianoplumber said:


> Removing a 4" diameter pipe nipple that has started to rust at the threads, I know darn well will end up in disaster, and replacing of the entire Wye. Because of the location of the Wye, this would mean opening a large can of asbestos abatement and cutting and repairing existing galvanized hydronic lines. As well as cutting and replacing new work connected. I am trying to stay within the scope of what we bid for this job and what we are under contract to do. As this is a commercial remodel, the owners have already shelled out way more money than they expected for all the "surprises" that come up during demo and construction.
> As far as any kind of tape, I don't trust any to hold 5 PSI. Plus an inspector will look at it and say WTF? Epoxy might be discreet.
> If epoxy will hold 5 PSI, building maintenance and administration will be made aware of impending rot of this drain, and begin budgeting for eventual replacement.


 
the bule monster tape will probably work.... 
you will probably have to use 2 rolls at 40 bucks
a roll..... 

Like I already stated, I did a 3/4 galvanized line
that was leaking at the joint and thread conection and it is now under 50psi.. 

just clean the area with a wire brush, then tape it on real tight back and forth over both the threads and the joint......and let it set up for a day or two... 

 If the blue color bothers you.... hit it with a black majic marker after its set up

are you trying to hide the problem so you wont have to eat it??

a long as you tell them about the problem..and you attempted to fix it as best possible, its about all that can be done.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

pianoplumber said:


> Removing a 4" diameter pipe nipple that has started to rust at the threads, I know darn well will end up in disaster, and replacing of the entire Wye. Because of the location of the Wye, this would mean opening a large can of asbestos abatement and cutting and repairing existing galvanized hydronic lines. As well as cutting and replacing new work connected. I am trying to stay within the scope of what we bid for this job and what we are under contract to do. As this is a commercial remodel, the owners have already shelled out way more money than they expected for all the "surprises" that come up during demo and construction.
> As far as any kind of tape, I don't trust any to hold 5 PSI. Plus an inspector will look at it and say WTF? Epoxy might be discreet.
> If epoxy will hold 5 PSI, building maintenance and administration will be made aware of impending rot of this drain, and begin budgeting for eventual replacement.



Use the epoxy just get it hot and be sure to sand or rough up the area in or around the hole then take the epoxy and "push" it into the hole filling it up then cover the top of the hole with a liberal amount and allow to set.then wrap with tape or rubber as extra protection against blow out when you air to 5lbs.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> Use the epoxy just get it hot and be sure to sand or rough up the area in or around the hole then take the epoxy and "push" it into the hole filling it up then cover the top of the hole with a liberal amount and allow to set.then wrap with tape or rubber as extra protection against blow out when you air to 5lbs.


 

why not do both the epoxy first, 

 then hit it with the blue monster stuff???:thumbsup:


----------



## huskyevert (Mar 9, 2012)

*Here's some epoxy*








We sent a cabling company that we use out to a 12 story apartment building. Long story short, they cleared the blockage, but got their cable stuck. We went into the mechanical crawl between the 1st and 2nd floors to get it out for them. It's not the most correct repair, but epoxy works in a pinch.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> why not do both the epoxy first,
> 
> then hit it with the blue monster stuff???:thumbsup:[/QUOTE
> 
> Yes I agree 100% the tape will work good ,yes you are right


----------



## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> I bought a roll of the monster tape and it actually did repair a leak in a galvanized water line at a joint.....
> 
> it would have been hell to have to change out a ton of pipes to get to this one leak, so I turned off the well
> and wrapped the fitting with the blue tape real tight and let it set up for a few days...
> ...


I'm not happy to say this but I've done the fernco trick as a patch for a few days. Just until the 3" dwv copper showed up from the supplier. I am not proud to say I've done that. But on a drain it does work.


----------



## evan (Dec 10, 2010)

pianoplumber said:


> Removing a 4" diameter pipe nipple that has started to rust at the threads, I know darn well will end up in disaster, and replacing of the entire Wye. Because of the location of the Wye, this would mean opening a large can of asbestos abatement and cutting and repairing existing galvanized hydronic lines. As well as cutting and replacing new work connected. I am trying to stay within the scope of what we bid for this job and what we are under contract to do. As this is a commercial remodel, the owners have already shelled out way more money than they expected for all the "surprises" that come up during demo and construction.
> As far as any kind of tape, I don't trust any to hold 5 PSI. Plus an inspector will look at it and say WTF? Epoxy might be discreet.
> If epoxy will hold 5 PSI, building maintenance and administration will be made aware of impending rot of this drain, and begin budgeting for eventual replacement.


It seems like you've already made up your mind. Try it! Let us know if it works


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*a plumber has to do what a plumber has to do*



Dpeckplb said:


> I'm not happy to say this but I've done the fernco trick as a patch for a few days. Just until the 3" dwv copper showed up from the supplier. I am not proud to say I've done that. But on a drain it does work.


 

Dont be ashamed of yourself.....:no:

you got to do--- what you got to do ---to win....


In my own personal house I got 3 inch copper going to a brass elbow then turning up to the toilet flange...

The copper started to leak right at the bottom of the brass elbow because the copper wore thin since 1966.

this could have turned into a major ugly mess tearing out the ceiling and changeing out the whole line....

I cut out a 20x20 section of drywall and found the problem then I took a 3 inch fernco fitting and cut it longways....and then I clear siliconed the hell out of the pipe and rubber gasket.... put the clamps on and and tightend it down...

I installed a panel in case the day came that it began to leak again,,,,,, and that was 13 years ago


In the mid 90s we also ran into a mess on the second floor of a home and had to do that fernco trick.... we spanned about 4 joints between the brass fittings with 3 inch fernco fittings..
the small full thread sections of copper had wore out..
and the fernco spanned the gap across from brass to brass..

 the homeowner could not afford tearing out all of the second floor plumbing due to the copper wearing thin...

it either got him by till he sold the home or finally made the repairs right...


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> Dont be ashamed of yourself.....:no:
> 
> you got to do--- what you got to do ---to win....
> 
> ...


Yes I agree


----------



## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

I refuse to do a epoxy or silicone repair. Cutting out a nipple is not that tuff and in the end you will walk away as a pro. If a inspector sees your repair he will start picking you apart,in the end you will feel foolish .


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

wyrickmech said:


> I refuse to do a epoxy or silicone repair. Cutting out a nipple is not that tuff and in the end you will walk away as a pro. If a inspector sees your repair he will start picking you apart,in the end you will feel foolish .


 
well, 
if you refuse to help the customer out of a jam with a family of 5 and no way to use any of the upstairs bathrooms, he will probably tell you to hit the road... and will find someone who will get him out of a jam


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

wyrickmech said:


> I refuse to do a epoxy or silicone repair. Cutting out a nipple is not that tuff and in the end you will walk away as a pro. If a inspector sees your repair he will start picking you apart,in the end you will feel foolish .


You evidently haven't done a lot of service work or you wouldn't be thinking like that,it's just a drain not like it has 100lbs of pressure on it.some people just can't afford to pay you for a day or more just to get a threaded nipple out when you could have repaired it,saved them a lot of money,and it still would hold tight if you knew how to repair it right.also you can write on invoice that this is not guaranteed and will likely have to be addressed a few yrs down the road.im not gonna take several old pipes apart and cause god knows what other damage if I can do a solid repair that will likely last for yrs.you go to beatin and cuttin on that old crap and you will have leaks out your yingyang all the while the original leak is screwed up because you ruined the threads tryin to beat the nipple out of the threads


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> well,
> if you refuse to help the customer out of a jam with a family of 5 and no way to use any of the upstairs bathrooms, he will probably tell you to hit the road... and will find someone who will get him out of a jam


I agree mark,if I were the customer and a plumber refused to get me back online just because he didn't want to use whatever it takes to make a solid repair that will last for yrs,then I would tell that plumber to hit the road and I would tell everybody not to use that guy because he does not know what he is doing


----------



## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

sparky said:


> You evidently haven't done a lot of service work or you wouldn't be thinking like that,it's just a drain not like it has 100lbs of pressure on it.some people just can't afford to pay you for a day or more just to get a threaded nipple out when you could have repaired it,saved them a lot of money,and it still would hold tight if you knew how to repair it right.also you can write on invoice that this is not guaranteed and will likely have to be addressed a few yrs down the road.im not gonna take several old pipes apart and cause god knows what other damage if I can do a solid repair that will likely last for yrs.you go to beatin and cuttin on that old crap and you will have leaks out your yingyang all the while the original leak is screwed up because you ruined the threads tryin to beat the nipple out of the threads


 one it would not take a day or more to remove a nipple two there is no such thing as a solid repair using the methods that have been suggested. Bandsaw the nipple out with two cuts one at the face of the fitting and one 6 inches back then make three cuts two one quarter of an inch apart and one on the opposite side the Leigh of the threads almost all the way threw the threads. With a small chisel or screwdriver peel the quarter inch piece out then fold the rest in and remove install the new threaded piece tighten the fernco and repair is done. If the guy had remodeled most of the place it's not like he went into a house full of starving children. The guy probably just wanted something for nothing. And by the way I have done a lot of service work but I will not bend the cardinal rule do it right or don't do it. You see you will lose more business from one job were you helped somebody out if it fails and they blame you,and they will. You see the costumers are like a pack of rabid dogs they will turn on you for just about anything. One guy beat me down on three stools wanted me to get the cheaper stools at HD I had two so to help the guy out I did. The first problem was he was pushy and his time apparently was more important than mine. But I still tried to help him out. To make a long story short after trying to help him out and replacing the crapy seat on the HD stool he tried to stif me on part of the Bill. The other part was he called twice on warranty but both times it was water from his shower. Don't ever cut a corner it will bit you either on your reputation or integrity. I have a large customer that uses me because he knows it will be fixed right when I walk away no matter what.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

wyrickmech said:


> one it would not take a day or more to remove a nipple two there is no such thing as a solid repair using the methods that have been suggested. Bandsaw the nipple out with two cuts one at the face of the fitting and one 6 inches back then make three cuts two one quarter of an inch apart and one on the opposite side the Leigh of the threads almost all the way threw the threads. With a small chisel or screwdriver peel the quarter inch piece out then fold the rest in and remove install the new threaded piece tighten the fernco and repair is done. If the guy had remodeled most of the place it's not like he went into a house full of starving children. The guy probably just wanted something for nothing. And by the way I have done a lot of service work but I will not bend the cardinal rule do it right or don't do it. You see you will lose more business from one job were you helped somebody out if it fails and they blame you,and they will. You see the costumers are like a pack of rabid dogs they will turn on you for just about anything. One guy beat me down on three stools wanted me to get the cheaper stools at HD I had two so to help the guy out I did. The first problem was he was pushy and his time apparently was more important than mine. But I still tried to help him out. To make a long story short after trying to help him out and replacing the crapy seat on the HD stool he tried to stif me on part of the Bill. The other part was he called twice on warranty but both times it was water from his shower. Don't ever cut a corner it will bit you either on your reputation or integrity. I have a large customer that uses me because he knows it will be fixed right when I walk away no matter what.


Agreed that is the best way to do it but I am not going to take a hit just to "fix it the proper way" if there is an easier and just as good a way to repair and still make money.the people are gonna talk bad about you no matter what we do for them,could do it for free and they will still moan and groan about us behind our backs so I'm gonna make money or I will not mess with it!!!!!!


----------



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

First of all, thank you to all who have replied to this post. I respect all suggestions. You all have helped me weigh all options and decide how to procede. I came up with 5 different options. I will post each one separately, along with which one I finally went with and why.


----------



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

Option #1: Remove nipple. 
I have demo'ed enough old 4 inch galvanized pipe to know that if it has started to rot at the threads, its a crap shoot. And the house usually wins. Smaller pipe, I'll take my chances, but not 50 year old 4 inch. If I can get the old nipple out, then what? Is a PVC adapter going to hold an air test in those old, rusty female threads? I certainly am not going to cut and thread a new 4 inch diameter galvanized nipple. I don't think I have any 4 inch galvanized laying around. I suppose I could shell out the dough to a supplier? Also, to get bandsaw, etc. in position would mean removing new work.


----------



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

Option #2: Fernco
I already have a steel to plastic no-hub pretty close to the joint. A fernco, which is longer, would cover the leak. Alas, ferncoes are illegal above ground in my state. And, since the leak is on the threads at the joint, I don't think a fernco, or a no-hub, would seal up enough for a 15 minute air test.


----------



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

Option #3: Blue Monster tape;
This stuff intrigues me. I'd like to have one of my suppliers send me a free sample to give to our service plumber to try. But, on this job, I've already argued with the inspector on a stupid plumbing code. Now he is looking for blood (or blue monster).


----------



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

Option #4 : replace Wye;
This is a commercial remodel. We were contracted to add additional living units to an existing building drain. Anything we do to this Wye or building drain is T and M paid, or lost. This Wye could not be replaced without yet another visit by the asbestos abatement crew. Another full day labor by us, plus over 100 bucks in parts, how do I tell project managers to spend another 2 or 3 grand just pass MY inspection? Just finished replacing 2 million BTU boiler with 5 condensing boilers. asbestos abatement was about 10 grand. Not going to say what my bill was. Hate to ask for more when they hand me a check.


----------



## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

option #5: Epoxy;
One man hour of labor and less than ten bucks for the glue. I'll gamble on that. I had my on-site guy do the repair yesterday (I'm overseeing another project right now, dealing with german engineers and whitworth threaded pipe??). Anyway, air test held rock solid for 30 minutes. I fulfilled my contract by proving my work leak free, and showed that old existing drain, even with "repair", holds true for now. Plumbing inspection can remain on schedule. I went above and beyond with minimal additional cost. Building maintenance and admin. are aware of impending rot of old building drain and can start budgeting for eventual replacement.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

pianoplumber said:


> option #5: Epoxy;
> One man hour of labor and less than ten bucks for the glue. I'll gamble on that. I had my on-site guy do the repair yesterday (I'm overseeing another project right now, dealing with german engineers and whitworth threaded pipe??). Anyway, air test held rock solid for 30 minutes. I fulfilled my contract by proving my work leak free, and showed that old existing drain, even with "repair", holds true for now. Plumbing inspection can remain on schedule. I went above and beyond with minimal additional cost. Building maintenance and admin. are aware of impending rot of old building drain and can start budgeting for eventual replacement.


Sure sounds to me like you made the right decision on all fronts,nice repair!!


----------

