# If you don't have money Now. Sorry no service.



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

During these hard times I'm sure you all have had people call. " I have a problem but have NO money"
Had a woman screaming at me on the phone because I would not accept payment's? I have helped a few and have been burnt :furious: Every time. Lost time money and materials etc.,

I am a fair person and business owner. But I will not risk my company because someone does not have money. Enough is enough.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I am the same as you.
NO money, NO service. I take credit cards, if a person's credit is so bad they can't get a credit card from a bank, then why would I give them credit?:no:


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

*keep on trukin baby!.............*


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> During these hard times I'm sure you all have had people call. " I have a problem but have NO money"
> 
> I think this situation as to not getting paid would depend on the situation.
> I could not refuse a free simple service call (like a blocked toilet or a running faucet) to anybody who in my mind needed it. As to not getting paid the look in that persons eyes would be pay enough. Now don't get me wrong the person could not ask for free work! It would be my decision to say No/Charge!


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## jerad (Oct 27, 2009)

this year it has been the slowest i have ever seen. there were several people that needed something done. i felt sorry for them and said i will take payments of $50 a month. i have nothing to show for it as they don't answer there phone or give me made up promises to pay with there next paycheck. i have turned them all to collections, but even they haven't gotten anywhere.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> UnclogNH said:
> 
> 
> > During these hard times I'm sure you all have had people call. " I have a problem but have NO money"
> ...


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## jerad (Oct 27, 2009)

i do bill out for property owners ie rental units and apt's. i have been holding onto checks a lot lately. that's when they agree to have the work done, the work gets done. then they say i have no money now. i have them post date me a check till there next payday.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

I have a tough time with this because I am very sympathetic by nature. It can be very hard at times. I have to remind myself to be empathetic in business and leave the sympathy I feel for people to my personal life. I learned a long time ago that giving these kind of customers a break because you are sympathetic to their plight usaually comes back to bite you in the rear end.

Afterall, I can't think of a single company who ever gave me a break in times of struggle in my life. If I ran around helping everyone who needed it right now I would soon find myself in the same boat as them.

If you need help, call your family, your friends, or your church. If you call me, please bring your checkbook.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

jerad said:


> this year it has been the slowest i have ever seen. there were several people that needed something done. i felt sorry for them and said i will take payments of $50 a month. i have nothing to show for it as they don't answer there phone or give me made up promises to pay with there next paycheck. i have turned them all to collections, but even they haven't gotten anywhere.


 I dont turn them to collections. I relate to the frustration...I tell people that we've been short on cash and really need to collect in an apologetic way..you know, I wish I could help you and carry it but I have to collect today. Unless its a huge amount with individuals I let it go.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with refusing service where getting paid is going to be an issue. Where is the fairness/justice of allowing a customer's financial plight to become yours? 

It is like gambling, bet only what you can afford to lose.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Customers, actually strangers who prey on your willingness to do for others without reward out of sympathy are of the lowest denominator in the book.


If you want to feel good, do it, but don't complain when those same people get you in the door, start asking you to do other things in the home.


One step into the home and you'll see how money is spent. That's when you know you're the fool.

I get calls like this and I just tell them we're not available. *It's that simple. I don't call people I don't even know and complain about my problems, asking for free help.*

The charitable things I've done this year alone is massive...I don't want to partake in someone's willingness to get by without understanding the *value* of one's time.


But then again, we all know what my response was going to be. :yes:

I decide who in my circle gets anything free or discounted, not those who call bluntly and ask of it. 

I did work for the mother of a friend of mine...saw her at the post office actually and I got this "poor me" scenario from her. She's dying of leukemia, told me even her sons wouldn't help her.

I go over, materials and labor and reset her toilet that was a mess, big mess. Told me she was going to make sure I was compensated somehow by word of mouth, something. Possibly a $200 job at least.


Never got one referral call from her...
Wouldn't acknowledge me the next time I saw her at the post office...
Her one son wouldn't make mention of it...

She moved down state, that was years ago.


It's now a bad memory where I was taken advantage of...and this thread brought it back to life.

All people are not the same, some are very grateful...but honestly there are too many bad amoungst the good to keep this ritual going, knowing these people when it comes time to pay for services...they look for the next fool.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Sometimes we need to figure out how to take hard times and use them to our advantage. I knew a contractor who after the Sylmar Earthquake found a lot of people who could not afford to make repairs. He financed repairs using contracts and secured property. As the payments started coming in he started buying and building apartment buildings. Fast forward 40-years and the guy still has his contracting business, he has a property management business, he owns 2,000 units and a $17,000,000 home sitting on a cliff over the Pacific Ocean. 

This may be to the extreme but it just shows there is always a way to make it work. How many people out there are hurting right now but still need stuff done. Unless you too are hurting, you should figure out how many people you can afford to finance and what you could use as secured collateral. In some cases a simple promissory note will work in others you may want more security. As long as you make sure the transaction is legal you should be fine.

Mark


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## Lee in Texas (Jun 24, 2009)

I can see cutting someone a break on the price, but it's still C.O.D. Once as an apprentice I was on a job where the guy wanted to give a post-dated check or just wait until payday. We were there to replace flexes* on his 2-week old water heater installation. He had insisted on keeping the old flexes to save a few bucks. At one point he got really agitated and said to the lead man "Well now you're just not workin' with me!" Forget that. Does he go to the grocery store and say "You'll get paid when I get paid"? No. Why do people think that because we provide a service, we should work for free or nearly free? Who cuts us a break? It's called the real world. 

I worked at a company where apprentices could follow their buddy around all day. Yes, that means 2-man flapper change outs.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

para1 said:


> *keep on trukin baby!.............*


I had that sticker on my car back in the 70's....
It actually worked a few times.... :laughing:


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> I had that sticker on my car back in the 70's....
> It actually worked a few times.... :laughing:


Alright Redwood, I gotta ask. Whadya get? :whistling2:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Pipedoc said:


> Alright Redwood, I gotta ask. Whadya get? :whistling2:


Well it really depended on who was riding in the car but it ended up being a little bit of everything...:thumbup:


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Well it really depended on who was riding in the car but it ended up being a little bit of everything...:thumbup:


 :laughing:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

We just went through this. A customer of ours called 7:15 p.m. at night and said she needed our services for a clogged toilet BUT she cannot pay us until the beginning of December until she gets her check. We agreed and showed up the next morning.

The clogged toilet turned into a clogged branch line and a belly in her drain lines under her trailer. Naturally, it was raining like the dickens to boot.

1. We agreed because she was our customer and she had used us twice in the past.
2. We agreed because if she doesn't pay, we are not out any money. Only time since our plumbers are paid 40 hours whether the work is there or not.
3. We agreed because she was upfront and asked.
4. We agreed because we have been blessed during this recession. We are still here, whereas some of the other plumbing cos. are not.
5. We agreed because we would feel guilty not helping her.

All that said, we still do not like doing it. . . and if she does not pay, it will probably affect what we tell the next person who asks for an exception to the COD policy.

We believe in charity; however, we like to know when we are 'donating' and we like to pick our own causes.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

My biggest fear in saying OK you can pay later. Word will get out. Then more and more will expect this. three of four people skipping out on their bill can hurt. Don't get me wrong I will do this with repeat customers who were good at paying in the past but a new customer with no history to much risk.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> My biggest fear in saying OK you can pay later. Word will get out. Then more and more will expect this. three of four people skipping out on their bill can hurt. Don't get me wrong I will do this with repeat customers who were good at paying in the past but a new customer with no history to much risk.


If her neighbor called and asked for help, we would say no. It would be explained that this was a one time exception for one of our customers that was in need. I'd recommend she call her regular plumber to match our generosity. Of course this is easier over the phone.


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## mselkee (Aug 13, 2009)

I will submit that there is a group of people that go through life as professional victims. 

We got a call the other day from a gal that needed a heater inspected and tuned up (her words). She then asked if we could take payments. My call taker (wife) deflected the call and told her that she couldn't authorize credit and to call back. 

I mentioned this to my son's wife who manages a local propane company. She flipped out. This was one of their customers and my daughter in law gave her every other plumbers name except ours because the customer never payed her bills! DIL also told me that their CO quit servicing the heater 3 years ago because they would have to condemn it and we would get paid eventually by this gal's church. Said this gal has been playing this for years.

What to do? Not gonna get paid, on a customer that is better part of an hour round trip drive time from the shop, that has a heater that most likely needs replacing or shut off. 

The customer calls back the next day. I answer the phone "This is Mrs XXX and I called the other day and asked about payments and never received a return call"- in an indignant tone. "Mame, you were talking to my wife and she told you to call back, that being said, we do not offer financing to our customers. We do accept credit cards. I suggest you call your bank if you need financing." Silence on the other end. "Well we're on fixed income and my husband can't work (in an annoyed tone)." I say nothing silence for about 10 seconds while she waits for me to say well OK then I'll do it for free." "Well, since we're both on small fixed incomes, and you won't help I guess we will just freeze to death this winter." "Your choice Mame, I know the director of the housing authority, I can give you her number.........." as phone slams in my ear.

My charity customers have been some of the most demanding. I'm trying to figure a way to give something to people really in need but it's hard to filter them out. I'm thinking about offering (discretely) services pre-screened by the city or county to help folks truly in a bind.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Good move mselkee.


Now what you do with that phone number in a couple weeks is a secret you should never tell. :laughing:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> We just went through this. A customer of ours called 7:15 p.m. at night and said she needed our services for a clogged toilet BUT she cannot pay us until the beginning of December until she gets her check. We agreed and showed up the next morning.
> 
> The clogged toilet turned into a clogged branch line and a belly in her drain lines under her trailer. Naturally, it was raining like the dickens to boot.
> 
> ...


 Everything is situational.


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## mselkee (Aug 13, 2009)

I really think GOD smiles on good intentions. I don't know about the "players" that use our morality to manipulate us, I can't relate....perhaps because I'm a Plumber...........I serve other people.. I'm running out of "good" wealth to throw at others. I have to be judicious with the wealth I have left. I have been played so many times that I am perhaps overly defensive. I hope my heart never gets hardened to the point where I never care.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

mselkee said:


> I really think GOD smiles on good intentions. I don't know about the "players" that use our morality to manipulate us, I can't relate....perhaps because I'm a Plumber...........I serve other people.. I'm running out of "good" wealth to throw at others. I have to be judicious with the wealth I have left. I have been played so many times that I am perhaps overly defensive. I hope my heart never gets hardened to the point where I never care.


If we let it change us, they have won! Money can be replaced - morality and compassion - not so much.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Here is another thought for some of you who are slow right now. When a customer calls and needs time to pay you, why not have them make a partial payment to cover costs and sit on your profit for a bit. If you are sitting there waiting for the phone to ring anyways it will take your mind off of how slow it is and give you something to do. It's not for everyone but for the right person this may help build your client list.

Mark


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Mark that works on repeat customers, but it's a practice I'd rather not get into with the way things are going. It's the reduced price job that over time becomes a hatred thing when you have to keep hustling what was once a "good" customer that literally hit a bad spot, and now you're part of that equation.

I've lost a few this way that there's no way I can do work for them now because they'd want that credit line again. Can't do it.

If people could be trusted on their word alone? I'd do it.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Steve,

It only works if it works for both sides. I know if I was sitting around waiting for the phone to ring, day after day I would go crazy. I would much rather risk a little labor which isn't being used in hope of some work. Now if you phones are ringing off the hook you'd have no reason for needing to do this.

I have gambled on human nature a bunch in the past and can't remember a dozen times I was taken by a plumbing customer. Between my guys and I we probably gambled on several hundred people over a 20+ year period so a dozen is not bad. Imagine if I turned down those couple of hundred jobs because I was worried about less than a dozen bad apples.

Mark


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Mark that works on repeat customers, but it's a practice I'd rather not get into with the way things are going. It's the reduced price job that over time becomes a hatred thing when you have to keep hustling what was once a "good" customer that literally hit a bad spot, and now you're part of that equation.
> 
> I've lost a few this way that there's no way I can do work for them now because they'd want that credit line again. Can't do it.
> 
> If people could be trusted on their word alone? I'd do it.


 I have a guy now that has been paying me 75.00 a month for the past 5 months and he still owes...he didn't ask if he could do this...it just happened. I'll never work for the guy again and i have been working for him for about 10 years. He pays but I'm not into that kinda customer unless we talk about it and it s a special case. Its his rental house and I know he has the money,hes just holding it aslong as he can. Its the end of the road for him...I programmed is numbers as slow payer in my phone.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

mselkee said:


> I will submit that there is a group of people that go through life as professional victims.
> 
> We got a call the other day from a gal that needed a heater inspected and tuned up (her words). She then asked if we could take payments. My call taker (wife) deflected the call and told her that she couldn't authorize credit and to call back.
> 
> ...



While I truly do appreciate the sentiment, do you really think it's a good idea to rely on any government full of vote grubbing, "tax 'em and then tax 'em some more", mayors, councilmen, and bureaucrats to determine who is truly in need?

Perhaps do a little research and find a good ministry through a local church who helps people with home repairs. Let them do the pre screening. Try it and if you don't like the situations they refer to you then stop working for them and look for another one. If you don't want to do this and you want to commit charitable acts then you could simply get up on Sat. morning and drive your truck to that section of town where you know there are people who could probably use your help. This is sort of the shotgun method but your odds of hitting someone truly in need are probably pretty good.

If you are a person of faith the following method will never fail: On Sunday evening, before you turn in for the night, offer this prayer (or similar) "Lord God Almighty, maker of all things, knower of all things, search my heart and know that the love of Christ motivates me to help someone this week who can benefit from the skills, knowledge, and talent you have equipped me with. I am willing and available for this task but do not know who you would have me serve. Lord I must depend upon you to make this person(s) known to me. I thank you in advance for showing me your will in this matter." Now if you pray this prayer, or one like it, you have to realize that the choosing is leaving your hands and entering His. You might not necessarily see things the way he does. We judge based on the exterior but he sees the truth in everything. Your faith in His judgement will cover your personal assessment of whomever he might choose. It may not be that the recipient even responds the way you think they should or might like, don't worry about that.

In my view this is true charity and something I hardly practice at all :icon_sad:.

The business on the other hand is a non-emotional entity. It's based only on the numbers. You can't run the business treating charity cases like paying customers because they are not. If you come across someone that your not sure is going to pay then you have to make the decision to either move them to the charity column, never depending on any revenue that that call would ordinarilly generate or you have to decline service. Neither choice is necessarily wrong you just can't go around mixing the two circumstances. The business only cares about the numbers, the person may care about people but the two need to be accounted for seperately.


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## dapperdan (Dec 25, 2008)

Charity starts at home. No one is looking ok for me. I chose who I will help. I do a lot of free work for non profits that my family is involved with. The biggest is the Boy Scout ranches it has been great helping a worth cause. When people see my truck and realize I am doing it for free I have gotten a lot of work from that. You have to fend for yourself whos going to help not OBAMA


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## mselkee (Aug 13, 2009)

> While I truly do appreciate the sentiment, do you really think it's a good idea to rely on any government full of vote grubbing, "tax 'em and then tax 'em some more", mayors, councilmen, and bureaucrats to determine who is truly in need?
> 
> Perhaps do a little research and find a good ministry through a local church who helps people with home repairs. Let them do the pre screening. Try it and if you don't like the situations they refer to you then stop working for them and look for another one. If you don't want to do this and you want to commit charitable acts then you could simply get up on Sat. morning and drive your truck to that section of town where you know there are people who could probably use your help. This is sort of the shotgun method but your odds of hitting someone truly in need are probably pretty good.
> 
> ...


Good points! I am based in a small community with a lot of volunteers. We interact with local government as service providers. I know the people that I would be asking for referrals for charity on a personal basis. They are billing clerks and meter reader types that interact with the poor on a personal basis....not elected officials. There are more than a few people in my area that are long suffering, old and too proud to ask for a handout. They suffer in silence. The local govt. knows who these people are. They are the ones that are cut slack on utility bills, on energy programs etc. The trick is finding them and helping them without being labeled as a soft touch. I have found that the local churches tend to be taken the most by the professional victim class.....sorry to say. 

I disagree to a certain extent that a business is just about numbers. A business is also an entity that can be used for good purposes. I guess if you want to be a total cynic, giving to charity could be be exploited for networking purposes. That is not my intention. I'm fortunate to live in a very beautiful corner of the world, surrounded by loving family, and want to give back to the community that makes it possible.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*If they would simply call to arrange payments*

got a fellow that owned about 28 rental porperties back in 98, used to do some work for him and he always liked to brag about how well he was doing....

took a 3 week trip to italy, a few years ago and told me all about it...ect..ect ect......

he generally always paid his bills,,,,,,but you had to listen to all the bragging about his money

now fast forward to 2009....
he is down to about 9 properties and has himself a handy man who does all his work and only calls me when this fellow has totally screwed the whole thing up...

I do him a few emergency call BIG FAVORS this spring and now he owes me about 900 bucks, and now he wont return my phone calls....

If he would just call and say I can give you 150 bucks a month till it was paid off, I would not feel so crappy about this.....

but instead , I got to chase him down like a warf rat...

I do him a favor , but now I got to look at him as just another weasel that 
I gotto drag to small claims court....


I am gonna call him tonight again.
instead of the mobile phone , will call him directly
to his home number and see what happens......


...


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> got a fellow that owned about 28 rental porperties back in 98, used to do some work for him and he always liked to brag about how well he was doing....
> 
> took a 3 week trip to italy, a few years ago and told me all about it...ect..ect ect......
> 
> ...


Go to his house tonight around 9:00 and ring the doorbell...and have a talk with him......let him see the desperation in your eyes. Say things like....."lifes not worth living like this...i dunno whats going to happen" I bet he writes you a check:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Go to his house tonight around 9:00 and ring the doorbell...and have a talk with him......let him see the desperation in your eyes. Say things like....."lifes not worth living like this...i dunno whats going to happen" I bet he writes you a check:laughing:


Ah The Master is letting his collection secrets out....:laughing:


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