# Digging With Air



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Going to demo a Soil Pick today. I really like the possibilities of excavating without risk to utilities. :thumbup:

I'll post some pics later.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Wait till I tell the guy who I use to dig that it can be done with air. :laughing:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I have seen something similar a long time ago when a city truck rolled through looking for something....I thought it used water and a small vacuum line. Very interested.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> I have seen something similar a long time ago when a city truck rolled through looking for something....I thought it used water and a small vacuum line. Very interested.


There are hydro-excavators that use high pressure water and a vac truck. This one is dry.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> There are hydro-excavators that use high pressure water and a vac truck. This one is dry.


That's what they use to tunnel down here, hydro tunneling, messy but it works.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> There are hydro-excavators that use high pressure water and a vac truck. This one is dry.


We need a foaming at the mouth icon.:thumbup:


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Diffidently demo it first. If your looking at what I think you are, it's gonna get very limited uses. Hydro-Excavator with a Vac would be better, but will cost more than your excavator....


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Will said:


> Diffidently demo it first. If your looking at what I think you are, it's gonna get very limited uses. Hydro-Excavator with a Vac would be better, but will cost more than your excavator....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Demo went really well. I think we'll be getting it. For getting in safely around utilities this thing is going to be perfect. It pulverized the hard clay pretty well.

The down side is having to rent a compressor to use it. I suppose that will be the next item to look for.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> Diffidently demo it first. If your looking at what I think you are, it's gonna get very limited uses. Hydro-Excavator with a Vac would be better, but will cost more than your excavator....


The hydro's create too much of a muddy mess for me to deal with when it comes to backfilling. 

And as you mentioned, the cost puts it out of my reach.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Demo went really well. I think we'll be getting it. For getting in safely around utilities this thing is going to be perfect. It pulverized the hard clay pretty well.
> 
> The down side is having to rent a compressor to use it. I suppose that will be the next item to look for.


How many CFM's does it require? 100 gallons under 100 psi is about 100 cu'.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Patiently tapping foot whilst waiting for pics...


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

What kinda price tag does it have? 

I need one


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

Here is a pic of it working.....


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

What the H#ll. You two working together????:laughing:


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

Will said:


> What the H#ll. You two working together????:laughing:


I was there for the demo to see how well they work..........
That's all I'm saying.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> What the H#ll. You two working together????:laughing:


Do you see two people WORKING? :laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

GREENPLUM said:


> What kinda price tag does it have?
> 
> I need one


Gonna be in the $1400 range with shipping.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Allow me to be dumb, where does the dirt go when blown with compressed air?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> Allow me to be dumb, where does the dirt go when blown with compressed air?


I guess we are both dumb. I asked the same thing. The air pulverizes it in the hole. Then scoop it out with a shovel. Some of the finer stuff blows all over the place. Especially at the beginning of the excavation.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

504Plumber said:


> Allow me to be dumb, where does the dirt go when blown with compressed air?


Everywhere. 

Especially at the beginning. 

Mostly, in your ears, eyes, nose, mouth, butt.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Special thanks to RLP for his insight and sharing of experience during this process. He was very helpful. :notworthy:

Special thanks to Mark K. For helping me land the job and his photo journalism.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> I guess we are both dumb. I asked the same thing. The air pulverizes it in the hole. Then scoop it out with a shovel. Some of the finer stuff blows all over the place. Especially at the beginning of the excavation.


I could see that in the first picture, that's what had me wondering. Hope you never have to dig next to the parking lot.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I was surprised at how localized it was after the dust settled. I thought it was going to be worse. We actually did some inside the building as well.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Oh how nice it will be when going under a walkway for the sewer line!


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Everywhere.
> 
> Especially at the beginning.
> 
> Mostly, in your ears, eyes, nose, mouth, butt.


I was wondering that myself.

Think I would trade the plexi face shield in for...


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Gettinit said:


> Oh how nice it will be when going under a walkway for the sewer line!


We use ours quite a bit for that purpose. You really wear ALOT of dirt doing it. 

It really works well, as it blasts the dirt out of the horizontal excavation quite nicely. 

We usually poke it all the way through. Then come back and open the hole to full size for the pipe. After you get a small pilot hole, the remainder of the dirt will blast through to the other side. You need to get the grade pretty good on the entry side, to get a good grade under the walk.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

U666A said:


> I was wondering that myself.
> 
> Think I would trade the plexi face shield in for...


It's only a little dirt:laughing:

We used ours today, it was so hot out, that thing would have filled up with sweat in 30 seconds. Then you would drown.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I can see where that would be great for tunneling under a footing. The person who has to dust everything in the house may not agree though.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Question, what about using half a basket ball on the lance to keep it from kicking it back at you so bad?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Question, what about using half a basket ball on the lance to keep it from kicking it back at you so bad?


It actually comes with a rubber cone attached to the barrel for that purpose. As you push the barrel farther into the soil it slides up the shaft.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Somebody broke the demo soil pick so it was back to shovels today.


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

Broke already, that doesn't sound promising.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

cbeck said:


> Broke already, that doesn't sound promising.


To be fair, it was a demo unit with a lot of miles on it.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

It wasn't me.
I was looking forward to having another play with that thing too.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Looks like a great tool for the great wide open. I can see a world of complaints from folks though.

What's the price on a new one?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Did you need one of these to run it?


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> To be fair, it was a demo unit with a lot of miles on it.


Demo, that thing has surely seen better days. :yes:


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Somebody broke the demo soil pick so it was back to shovels today.


Where the uniforms Biz? Or at least t-shirts?! :thumbup:


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Somebody broke the demo soil pick so it was back to shovels today.


Where the uniforms Biz, or at least the t-shirts!? :thumbup:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Did you need one of these to run it?


Yep.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> Looks like a great tool for the great wide open. I can see a world of complaints from folks though.
> 
> What's the price on a new one?


http://www.plumbingzone.com/f10/digging-air-20206/index2/#post305331


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Yep.


Ouch.... definitely a renter.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Wouldn't it be pretty simple to make on your own? Seems the compressor is what is getting the results.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> Wouldn't it be pretty simple to make on your own? Seems the compressor is what is getting the results.


Probably but the last thing I need is another project that I won't get finished.


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> There are hydro-excavators that use high pressure water and a vac truck. This one is dry.


Problem with hydro excavation here is the EPA won't let the waste be disposed of unless it is a prescribed waste dump. Costs an absolute fortune it's only wet effin dirt


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Will said:


> Wouldn't it be pretty simple to make on your own? Seems the compressor is what is getting the results.


:no:

There is something going on in the handle of the tool. 

Some sort of spool valve looking like thing. Occassionally, there is a release of air, kinda like an air brake truck. 

We tried it already.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f10/digging-air-20206/index2/#post305331


Oh, I thought the price may have gone down since then. :laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> Oh, I thought the price may have gone down since then. :laughing:


I think I am getting my standard discount....Retail + 30%


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Soil Pick used by RLP...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrq1_Uu3gNw&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMI17PZ12RE&feature=youtu.be


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Do you lose soil and have to bring in fill when you use it?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Except for small fragments at the beginning and dust, the broken soil stays in the hole.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Just sent you another one, much better view of it.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Does this dig any faster than a shovel?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> :no:
> 
> There is something going on in the handle of the tool.
> 
> ...



A pneumatic pulse valve? :whistling2:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

TallCoolOne said:


> Does this dig any faster than a shovel?


Depends on the soil conditions. We were using it in hard clay under a building footing that hasn't seen any measurable moisture in decades. The tool fractures and pulverizes the soil so it can be scooped out.

The main purpose and benefit is that in only affects the soil. It will not even damage the smallest of tree roots while breaking up the soil. It is often used to aerate hard soil around trees. 

For us, it can be used to break soil while locating utilities with zero risk to cutting a line. It can also be used somewhat like a probe. As the soil is fractured, you can keep working the barrel deeper till it hits what you are looking for without damaging anything.

In really hard soil even digging by hand to find phone, cable, and electric lines is like roulette. If you dig hard enough to break the dirt, you are also likely to cut the line before you see or feel it.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Depends on the soil conditions. We were using it in hard clay under a building footing that hasn't seen any measurable moisture in decades. The tool fractures and pulverizes the soil so it can be scooped out.
> 
> The main purpose and benefit is that in only affects the soil. It will not even damage the smallest of tree roots while breaking up the soil. It is often used to aerate hard soil around trees.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Biz,
You said the tool "broke"? What happened to it?

Did it work out in the clay?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Biz,
> You said the tool "broke"? What happened to it?
> 
> Did it work out in the clay?


The little finger that pushes down the piston as you squeeze the handle snapped off.

Tore apart the clay just fine.


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## AbsoluteDP (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks for info. It is great tool for root aeration but for underground plumbing it make sense to use only in very specific occasions. And presence of IR at every dig site makes it even less attractive :sad:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

This video shows a gas line with a root next to it being excavated.

Thanks for the video RLP. :thumbup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xazsgvAb_8s&feature=youtu.be


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

We located that pipe with the soil pick, combination of using it as a probe, as well as breaking up the soil. It is steel. I wanted no parts of going near that with a shovel. The water was next to it, @ 5' deep. as you mentioned, the soil was rock hard. Usually, we would end up with scratches or nicks in the steel and copper pipe, no matter how careful you are with the shovel. 

Thanks for taking the time to post the videos. It is way above my computer skills. :notworthy:



As far as the tag compressor at every job, its usually there anyway. Jackhammer runs off it. We use the pogo stick backfill compactor, air is way easier than a broom, and no worries about a flat tire. :laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

AbsoluteDP said:


> Thanks for info. It is great tool for root aeration but for underground plumbing it make sense to use only in very specific occasions. And presence of IR at every dig site makes it even less attractive :sad:


Agreed 100%. I don't have a 185cfm compressor so it will have to be rented for now. 

It seems we have had more than out fair share of damaged utilities lately because we are having to use jackhammers to break the soil. No matter how accurate the marks, utility lines don't have a chance. May not be good for every job but I'm really tired of having Cox Cable and AT&T on speed dial.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I use the rented air compressor to blow out water well


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