# AZ Plumbing service manager salaries?



## Old guy (Oct 30, 2012)

I have been in the plumbing industry for 20 years. Recently I have been considering taking a position as a service manager for a local plumbing shop. The starting salary would be approx 70,000 net ( that's after taxes ). I have no idea what an average salary for a position like this usually starts at, therefore I am a little hesitant to accept the position.
Can anyone help me out?
Thank you


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Tucson, Phoenix or some smaller town?


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## Old guy (Oct 30, 2012)

Phoenix area.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

A decent service plumber in Tucson can make 70-90K. I believe the manager was making in line with your #, if it's 110Kish pre tax. That was with bennies and health. It all comes down to what you want/need to live vs how much work it will be.


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## Old guy (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks for the comments. I have been in this bussiness since high school, I figure I'll be in it for another 20 years or so. At this point I can feel my body catching up to me, if you know what I mean. This is probably a good opportunity to save myself some pain in the years to come.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Old guy said:


> Thanks for the comments. I have been in this bussiness since high school, I figure I'll be in it for another 20 years or so. At this point I can feel my body catching up to me, if you know what I mean. This is probably a good opportunity to save myself some pain in the years to come.


Let me know if you dont take the offer.

My parents live in AZ and Id like to hang the tools up after 23 years.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Give it a shot, if it is too much stress for the money, you can get back on your tools. :thumbsup:


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

SlickRick said:


> Give it a shot, if it is too much stress for the money, you can get back on your tools. :thumbsup:


Its not worth the money some days.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

I am a service manager/project manager for a plumbing, heating, ac, water systems shop. I started inside at the age of 25 two years ago. Our shop has about 15 guys and between new construction and service work we're always busy. I know I'm just a kid but make sure it's something you would want to do. You are responsible for all the guys that work under you. Their problems are your problems. 

I got dragged inside unwillingly at an age I feel was too young because I still have a lot to learn in the field but I also learned things being inside that i would I have never learned in the field.

All that I am saying is make sure this is what you really want to do. You are the guy who the customers will take anger out, you are the guy who the owner will be on, and the mechanics working under you are going to also take out any frustration on you. It's a stressful position in my personal opinion, much more so than any stress I've encountered in the field.

Just my insight.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

It would not hurt to ask for a percentage of the monthly gross revenue on top of the salary.


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

So right AWWGH, it's a job that never shuts off, owners feel this too but they control their own destiny.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> It would not hurt to ask for a percentage of the monthly gross revenue on top of the salary.


Gross revenue ???

Maybe net profit

Gross revenue means nothing if there is no profit


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Gross revenue ???
> 
> Maybe net profit
> 
> Gross revenue means nothing if there is no profit


 I want total revenue= gross .10% of 100 grand is 10 grand per month plus salary. conversely if my staff only brings in 40 grand in a month I only make 4 grand plus salary.

Gross is what is brought in.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I want total revenue= gross .10% of 100 grand is 10 grand per month plus salary. conversely if my staff only brings in 40 grand in a month I only make 4 grand plus salary.
> 
> Gross is what is brought in.


I know what you meant ..

As an employer I would never make a deal on gross revenue...

Some jobs at times is break even and there is times when there is a loss...

I would however agree to net profit shares...


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I know what you meant ..
> 
> As an employer I would never make a deal on gross revenue...
> 
> ...


 
LOL guess what, we would not have a working relationship.


As much as we butt heads I would say we would have a good working relationship. At the end of the day we both have the same idea, it is all about business and turning the right profit where the company is concerned.

I do believe it would depend on what is delivered wouldn't it?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> LOL guess what, we would not have a working relationship.
> 
> As much as we butt heads I would say we would have a good working relationship. At the end of the day we both have the same idea, it is all about business and turning the right profit where the company is concerned.
> 
> I do believe it would depend on what is delivered wouldn't it?


Some times we are on the same page...

Then there is times when either one of us might leave the reservation ...

But in the end we always come back to the same conclusion...

At the end of the day we must turn a profit


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Some times we are on the same page...
> 
> Then there is times when either one of us might leave the reservation ...
> 
> ...


 
:laughing: welcome back to the reservation.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I think an in between spot might be best. If the percentage is based on gross profit it allows the supervisor to bear responsibility for job profitability. 

Basing it on gross sales eliminates his skin in the game for company profit. Basing it on net profit makes him responsible for things he may not have control over.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

John we are looking at this in 2 different ways. First you are looking at it as an owner and paying the least that has to be paid out. There is a lot of skin in this game and it is driven by how driven the company is and the manager.

Way to often owners has a belief that the manager must motivate the employees. Motivation wears off when it is left up to someone else to motivate others. The manager /owner must be able to discover what it is that motivates the employee or staff and empower the employee /staff to motivate themselves. This type of motivation is what will drive each individual to success. My job then becomes one of motivating the motivation and to keep it humming. I must then make sure each receives what they need to maintain the motivation. This in turn drives the company revenue.

Here is where the skin is in the game or like I call it the vested interest in the company enters, if the staff does not perform the dollars paid to me equals min. wage for a managers earnings. However when the opposite happens magic is delivered and everyone makes money including the manager. Typically the manager makes less than the top performer on the plumbing staff this is backwards thinking. I must make sure the right plumber is sent to the right customer that will give each plumber a chance for success. I have to put that person in position to be successful. I cannot send my weakest plumber to a well call and expect him to be successful and have him remain positive with the results he gains.

I could have 10 plumbers working and profit would be down. Instead I have 5 plumbers making more than the 10 plumbers with fewer service calls and working fewer hours. Now we can hire on a need and what we want verses hiring for bodies and making less profit. This is why you must have a system that generates revenue while keeping costs down and profits up. It takes a lot of time to hire the right people who will make the right choices the majority of times.

We went through our ups and downs. At one time I dropped our staff to 3 plumbers that would follow our system and take responsibility for their actions and jobs. We are up from that to 5 now. I lost one to go down to 5. That was due to me making a mistake on his determination. This month each plumber made a bonus. The last 3 months 4 of them made bonus. This means I made a nice bonus. I would say I have a lot of skin in the game.


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

Paying bonuses based on revenue is crazy, never heard of anyone doing it and definitely would not recommend it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Unless we want to bring out the chain for the customers kitchen table.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> ?..First you are looking at it as an owner and paying the least that has to be paid out....


Not so Richard. I believe in the principle that the better off my employees are, the better off I am. I want them in new houses, new cars, and new clothes.

The reason Gross Sales is the wrong barometer for rewarding a production supervisor is because Gross Sales is just about the least important number on the P&L report.

The success or failure of a production supervisor can most effectively be judged by Gross Profit.

Gross Profit is Gross Sales minus COGS and production labor. Did the revenue from the sale exceed the cost of the materials and the plumber's wages? This is why the production profitability of a company is completely summed up in that number. The dollar volume of the sale is irrelevant. The only thing that matters from a production standpoint is Gross Profit. 

Many shops nationwide have gone bankrupt with Gross Sales in the millions of dollars. How is that possible? Because the person overseeing the production side of the business did not control COGS and production labor costs. A production supervisor that is not held accountable for inventory control and job site labor efficiencies is just a sales manager. And the best way to keep them accountable is to tie their salary to Gross Profit, not Gross Sales.

Based on conversations you and I have had over the years, I think it is safe to say we both put a huge emphasis on sales. But we both also understand that sales without profit is a waste of time and energy. 

So...I wholeheartedly believe a production supervisor should make bonuses. LARGE BONUSES!!!!

However, those bonuses must be based not on how much money the company collected but rather on how much money the company kept.

Net Profit? I don't think so. General overhead expenses (e.g. the owner's salary and bonuses) are often beyond the control of a production supervisor so I see no point in tying their pay to Net Profit.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

When I was a supt. my bonuses were based on the profit from the project. I would loved to have know that I would have automatically received 10% of of a 10 million dollar project. But in reality it should have gone to the estimator if sales counted for that much. I am the one that had to take underestimated project and beat the numbers.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

I'd have to agree that bonus or a percentage from profit makes more sense then gross.

I would love to have a percentage of the profit.

Now, I guess the next question on if it's worth it or not is what is your expected role as a service manager?

The only way to describe my job would be "make it happen." Along with whats generally expected I'm forever picking up / running parts, helping with service calls, managing stock, and many more. 

Let us know if you take the job or not.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

AWWGH said:


> I'd have to agree that bonus or a percentage from profit makes more sense then gross.
> 
> I would love to have a percentage of the profit.
> 
> ...


Sounds like my job except mine is 24 hours a day (literally). I have day crews along with more night crews. Now on top of everything else they are starting to get me into the accounts receivable and all that lovely paperwork. I love my job ,I love my job, I love my job . Kidding aside I do love my job, does that make me a sick man? lol


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Not so Richard. I believe in the principle that the better off my employees are, the better off I am. I want them in new houses, new cars, and new clothes.
> 
> The reason Gross Sales is the wrong barometer for rewarding a production supervisor is because Gross Sales is just about the least important number on the P&L report.
> 
> ...


 
Why are we assuming the gross sales are without profit? There are stipulations in every contract. The stipulations protect the owner and to protect the manager from overhead expendatures that iare caused by the owner.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> I'd have to agree that bonus or a percentage from profit makes more sense then gross.
> 
> I would love to have a percentage of the profit.
> 
> ...


of course it makes sense to the owner, most companies are working on a 3-5% profit verses 10-15% or more.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

One thing you need to think or check on is if that company will be around. You could take it and find out two months later its closing. Another thing to consider is if it maybe up for sale. There are some guys making money and some that are just holding on to see what happens in the election. Just my opinion


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Why are we assuming the gross sales are without profit? There are stipulations in every contract. The stipulations protect the owner and to protect the manager from overhead expendatures that iare caused by the owner.


I am not assuming there is no profit.

My point is performance pay for the manager based on the gross sale, without verification that the job was managed to completion profitably, is not a win/win contract. 

The manager would likely have some measure of control over 3 main things:
1. Sales (do we have a job to do)
2. Hiring and training plumbers (do we have the skill to do what we sold within the labor hour budgeted)
3. Inventory control (do we have the right materials with no shrinkage)

So at the end of the job it is verified that his responsibilities as manager were fulfilled. Not just that he taught the guys to sell (VERY important by the way), but they also met the billable hour goals and didn't waste large quantities of supplies in the process. In other words, gross profit. 

This still leaves the owner responsible for general overhead items like utilities, vehicle purchases, admin wages, insurance, etc... These things are typically not in the control of the service manager so it would be unfair to hold him accountable for them.

I agree 100% that the sales SHOULD BE profitable but an ineffective service manager can lose that profit if he is not covering all three areas of his responsibility.

So again, base his bonus on job profitability rather than gross sales or net profit.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> I am not assuming there is no profit.
> 
> My point is performance pay for the manager based on the gross sale, without verification that the job was managed to completion profitably, is not a win/win contract.
> 
> ...


 
Again why would you think these are not met? I have not even mentioned sales being taught and the ony thing that is a variable. It is again an assumption that is all that is being completed.

I get that you do not want to pay on the gross and everything I have mentioned and you is necessary for both percentage of profit or gross to work well. I would not work for a percentage of 3% profit there is no money in it for either the company or me. Perhaps if profit was between 15-20 percent it would be worth it to all parties. My job as manager is to INCREASE profit which would include all of your points in the discussions. If I do not you will release me, right? If I increase you from a million dollars a year to multimillion dollar company while increasing profits I should be compensated well.


As an example taking a company that is losing money and turning them into a profitable company. The first year or two is a losing situation for the manager earnings wise as it is the time to change behaviors, attitudes, and business climate. This is more than sales training. It is providing a system to the company in order that they can grow financially and profitably. At some point every company gets to a point where they stay the same and what I am talking about will never work with that type company. There must be growth every year until the owner is where he or she wants to be located. A good example would be Jim Abrams. He was not satisfied with what he had until he formed Clockwork. I am sure he probably has something more he wants to go after now. Some guys want more other people seem to become content with what they have and no longer interested in growing.


If you are hiring a manager to provide stability and staying the course you have set forth, than we are talking about a much different situation. A sports analogy would be like having a quarterback that is average like a Trent Dilfer to manage the team and not make mistakes or having a quarterback like Joe Montana that leads his team to victory with will. Joe Montana will cost you more than a Trent Dilfer. In this situation I would agree with you 100% however I am not talking about this type of situation.


I think what is necessary for all is to decide which course you’re on and then decide what is best for you whether it is to stay the course with minimal success or is it to move forward with gusto. Once you get where you need to go then it would be wise to move towards a stay the course manager. In that case the forward thinking manager would most likely end up moving to another situation that called for that talent and people will pay for it.

If you are a stay the course type owner I would agree 100% with your thoughts and intentions.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I think I may not be conveying my intent correctly. When I get some time later I'll post a couple of mock P&L's to illustrate my point.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I understand exactly what you are stating biz. I am not talking about being a manager that is not highly profitable. Even if I am getting a percentage of the 3% profit and if I am not profitable you will not keep me or give me a bonus. 


I understand that you cannot pay a manger for gross when costs override and there is no profit. I am not talking about a company that is happy and only making 3% profit if they are lucky. I am not talking about that company that is happy with cash in pocket.


A stay the course owner will allow his company to have the cost overruns as you have described. Chances are nothing will influence this type owner to change beaviorsmattitudes or business climate.


An average or below average football team clould not addord Joe Montana. Same concept.However a high risk company most likely will take a chance with a progressive manager.


We will have to agree to disagree.

I think we are disagreeing over semnatics and those semantics are the amount of profitability. Show me the P&L where the profit of every job averages between 10-20% when they are used to 3% and or losing profit.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

In short, performance pay must rise and fall with performance. That is the driving force behind people willing to work in a performance pay based system.


As an owner, gross sales dollars do not mean anything. Sure they are an indicator of certain things but the only line that really matters is the bottom one.

So...
The manager did not make the company more money by selling a bigger job, he made money by selling a more profitable job. And that is the result I want to reward. The largest gross sale seldom if ever reflects the highest profit percentage. For most companies there are the sweet spot jobs that are their REAL bread and butter.

I have had years that grossed almost double over others but the gross profit was only marginally improved. Why? Bad management. But if I had a manager whose salary was based on gross sales numbers he would have been taking (in my opinion) an unearned windfall to the bank by not having his pay tied to the real end goal, profit.

The advantage of percentage pay is you can change the percentages to be relevant at any point in the income statement. Based on gross revenue, the percent would be lower than if based on gross profit. Just adjust the percentage accordingly so that the salary is in the range budgeted for that position. Then as the manager identifies, targets, and manages those sweet spot jobs, his pay climbs with the company's real success...profit.

I feel a new chapter to my on going "More Than Owning A Job" series.

"THE USELESS STATISTIC....GROSS REVENUE"


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

This dovetails with my disdain for plumbers I have met and/or interviewed that brag about the gross sales they brought to their employer (or soon to be former employer). It is meaningless. Did the employer have a net gain and how much? That is the number I want to hear about.

Countless times I have heard men say, "I made the company so much money. I sold over $******* dollars a month but they don't care or appreciate all that gravy I bring in." Meh, hogwash.

When I hear that song and dance, all it tells me is that the employer didn't appreciate the employee needing extra labor help not planned for in the sales price, over-runs on materials, and shoddy workmanship resulting in expensive call backs or multiple re-inspects.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

John 

You ae 100% CORECT ON TOTALS. However we need to make sure we are on the same page. There are rules and strategies that must be implemented. The managers PAY must be calculated as part of the overhead and business costs. This includes the percentage he or she is paid. There must be restrictions on job costs. The labor must not be more than 25% I like 20%. Materials on the job should equal the labor or below. This thing must be agreed upon prior to hiring.

I will not do it on profit due to 1 reason with most accountants 2 plus 2 does not = 4 and profit can be manipulated. You made too much this year spend it. Once spent it is not mine.

What has surprised me, the owners that also carry the dual title as owner /manager that do not think they are worth the extra change and pay?

At the end of the day we are all put to scrutiny and that is are you worth it and do you earn it. Once this is determined what is paid is secondary. Do you think Lee Iacocca was worth it too Chrysler? Bill Gates worth it to micro soft, Steve Jobs to apple? I am not saying I am any of those 3. Making a point when it is said and done was the job taken care of and done correctly?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> ...I will not do it on profit due to 1 reason with most accountants 2 plus 2 does not = 4 and profit can be manipulated. You made too much this year spend it. Once spent it is not mine.....


I think I see where we got off. Actually you and I are looking at the same exact factors.

When I say base it on gross profit, that is (gross sales - install labor - materials) = gross profit. The percentages you are using to determine gross profit are very close to mine as well.

The accountant or owner cannot spend excess profits on install labor or COGS. They are solely under the control of the manager and direct indicators of job profitability alone. If the accountant or owner decides to buy a new jet airplane and categorize it as a marketing expense or employee trip fund, it is still happening after the gross profit calculation and should never affect the manager's targeted "gross" profit. The overhead expenses beyond the gross profit are what leads to net profit and that is where tax liability comes in.

Every business owner should be trying to maximize gross profit for real cash flow and minimizing net profit for tax savings.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

I worked for a corporation in California as the Executive Director of one of their 26 service centers. 
At our peak I managed 72 employees, 19 were administrative and the balance were Drain Cleaners and Plumbers.

Every employee had an incentive for achieving certain goals. 
Each employee had a " VFP" aka Valuable Final Product.
The VFP was the product that they were hired to produce.

The Service Manager's VFP's was " Service Volume" and "Delivery % ".
"Service Volume " was the total sales minus job cost. 
Job cost was the direct cost to complete the job, parts, permits, equipment rentals and Subs if needed. Service volume DID NOT include labor.

Delivery % was the total calls booked vs total calls completed. the goal was always 80% or more. 

The only position that was paid on profit was the Executive Director aka " ED " .
The reason being that the ED ws the only one that had control of the entire operation, and his VFP was PROFIT and Satisfied Customers. Satisfied customers was measured by percentage of repeat business and lack of CSLB or BBB complaints.

My profit bonus was always greater than my salary, as that was what I was hired to produce.., and was handsomely rewarded for achieving it.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> I think I see where we got off. Actually you and I are looking at the same exact factors.
> 
> When I say base it on gross profit, that is (gross sales - install labor - materials) = gross profit. The percentages you are using to determine gross profit are very close to mine as well.
> 
> ...


 
We are similar yet different in that my payout is still calculated with materials and overhead.I will add my payout as part of the overhead and is included in the job costs.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> I worked for a corporation in California as the Executive Director of one of their 26 service centers.
> At our peak I managed 72 employees, 19 were administrative and the balance were Drain Cleaners and Plumbers.
> 
> Every employee had an incentive for achieving certain goals.
> ...


 
This is a different situation that I have put out there. Your job is to maintain verses grow the company,create work, create work enviroment or behaviors,create a culture. In this case it would be a bonus plus salary position. What do they say 5 out of 10 go out of business? Maybe where I am different is I like a difficult situation. 

When I moved to Sarasota I was brought down to manage a company. After 1 week I asked to see the books as things were not what appeared to be otu front. We talked and I told them they would be lucky to last 6 months. I was wrong they lasted 8 months. Before they decided to seek help they allowed themselves to get too deep with no return.


This company showed 15 trucks in the parking lot ,3 septic tank pumping trucks,2 backhoes,2 dump trucks and 30 employees. When I arrived we had 3 plumbers 1 pump truck driver and 1 backhoe operator. The rest of the vehicles had blown engines they could not repair.smoking mirrors keeping the company running.


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## AAP-Anthony (Oct 14, 2012)

Great discussion going on here. I think the most important thing to consider before assigning or deciding upon a pay package is to have clearly defined job descriptions. 

Of which, lay out clear and concise responsibilities, authority, budgets, and overall expectations. Along with the parameters of the pay package. 

A service manager is defined as what? The sales manager does what? The GM has back end access to what?

All of these items need to be clearly defined as to avoid any sort of confusion down the road. 

In my humble opinion this is where things can go wrong or in other words tilt the balance of being equitable to all parties - if not clearly defined. 

What is the owners intentions? why does he/she want to hire a manager? 

If the actual owner has decided he just wants to relax and coast. Then the emphasis would be to maintain the existing with some slight growth to cover the new managers pay and a package based on these parameters should be put together. Straight salary would best fit this scenario....

Now, if the owner is looking to grow and expand upon the operation then the vision needs to be laid out on the table with clear objectives defined and the mangers pay package needs to be based off of performance. The owner ought to know his numbers well enough to define which benchmarks are best suited to be utilized in the performance pay package. In expansion mode key numbers would be leads, accounts, sales totals, gross minus cogs aka service volume aka labor total, etc. 

The point is to make sure everything is defined and the business plan moving forward is well established amongst the owner and the potential manager. 

Far too often people want to take credit for numbers they had no part in (owners viewpoint) or the manager feels he is being under compensated - because he is tasked with managing the whole operation 24hrs a day while being paid a meager wage. 

As you can see it truly is important to know where the company is at and where it wants to go before a pay package can be equitable for all. 

As for myself, I would only consider the following 
- a service manager position requires the operation to have 10 plus trucks on the road - its salary position with the focus to be my eyes and ears as I can no longer effectively watch the operation by myself. 
- General Manager - oversees the whole operation and is only needed when there exists and absentee owner or 15 plus trucks on the road. A GM should be paid a base salary with performance bonuses and should be privy to all aspects of the operating. Including the financials, budgets, marketing etc. 
- I don't see the need for an in house sales manager, with respect to independent companies ( large 50 truck operations and franchise operations are different and as such become a must ) ---- However, I would farm the sales training out to a expert sales consultant. 
It's much more cost effective and productive. 

Note: I hope this position doesn't offend anybody but, my position on this is "if you're that good of a sales coach - you should become one and offer your expertise to the masses - it's much more profitable". or better yet - write a book. Simply regurgitating a sales method to the team can be accomplished by a service manager. 

I know I'm all over the map with this post and I apologize. There are far too many variables with respect to this topic to cover via thread posts.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> *This is a different situation that I have put out there. Your job is to maintain verses grow the company,create work, create work enviroment or behaviors,create a culture.* In this case it would be a bonus plus salary position. What do they say 5 out of 10 go out of business? Maybe where I am different is I like a difficult situation.
> 
> When I moved to Sarasota I was brought down to manage a company. After 1 week I asked to see the books as things were not what appeared to be otu front. We talked and I told them they would be lucky to last 6 months. I was wrong they lasted 8 months. Before they decided to seek help they allowed themselves to get too deep with no return.
> 
> ...


Actually my job was to create ever increasing profit and growth.
If the company was not growing it was loosing ground, due to cost of operations always on the rise .
I was promoted to Exec Dir in 1990 with 3 administrative employees and 5 techs, 3 of witch I fired on my first day, for theft and smoking pot while working.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Ok, I'm not as experienced as you guys, with alot of this, I will just tell ya what happened to me.
I was suppose to get a profit sharing for running a large job. The boss bought a new backhoe, & guess what,....paid for the the whole thing at once. Then charged that expense to the job profit. Then he said that alot of his other equipment was used for the job, & not charged. Well how do you argue that? When you say profit, 1 company may pay out $80,000 or so to buy a backhoe, or any piece of equipment they need, the next co may put $500 down & make payments. So profit at end of year would be much different, no? 

Or what if they gotta pay penalties for late payments, or someone forgets to return a rented piece of equip, or damages a piece of equip, & so on? Is all your profit sharing, that you have no control over, come out of that?


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## AAP-Anthony (Oct 14, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Ok, I'm not as experienced as you guys, with alot of this, I will just tell ya what happened to me.
> I was suppose to get a profit sharing for running a large job. The boss bought a new backhoe, & guess what,....paid for the the whole thing at once. Then charged that expense to the job profit. Then he said that alot of his other equipment was used for the job, & not charged. Well how do you argue that? When you say profit, 1 company may pay out $80,000 or so to buy a backhoe, or any piece of equipment they need, the next co may put $500 down & make payments. So profit at end of year would be much different, no?
> 
> Or what if they gotta pay penalties for late payments, or someone forgets to return a rented piece of equip, or damages a piece of equip, & so on? Is all your profit sharing, that you have no control over, come out of that?


You were bamboozled on that one... I can understand rentals fee (whether on in house or outside equipment), but to charge off a backhoe is ridiculous. Hope you've found a different place to work...

Your experience is just one of many I've heard throughout the years. Hence why, I feel "everything" should be clearly defined in writing. With both parties signing off on the agreement...


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