# Upgrading van



## user2090

After more than two years of working out of my 1/2 Ton Chevy Express the time has come to upgrade. The problem is I'm not sure what route I should go. 

No doubt I need a bigger vehicle because a 1/2 ton just can't handle the amount of material I want and need to put in it, plus it cannot tow a trailer. 

I would say I do primarily service work, but I seem to land a fair amount of re pipes, remodel work, and have a fair amount of opportunity to do sewer replacements. 

At the least I need a 3/4 ton work van so that I can load it down and still be able to tow a trailer, but I am thinking maybe 1 ton. 

I've always worked out of Chevy express vans, but am willing to consider different options if it makes my life easier. 

What would you suggest?


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## No-hub

1 ton extended chevy express. Sprinter.


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## Mississippiplum

Something like this maybe? 











Ram chassis & cab it has a cummins diesel so towing wouldn't be a problem. And you could basically put any box you want on it

sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## GREENPLUM

how much money do you have to spend on it?


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## user2090

GREENPLUM said:


> how much money do you have to spend on it?


Without trade in I'm easily approved for 25,000 and that keeps payments in a comfortable range.


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## ToUtahNow

I've always felt a one ton was minimum for a plumbing truck. It's not about power, it's about brakes and suspension. From there you can add whatever power-train you need.

Mark


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## rocksteady

I have only worked out of one ton vans and couldn't imagine anything smaller. Like Mark said, it's much more about the chassis than the power. The one tons go though brakes and suspension parts quick enough, I can't imagine how quickly you'd eat through parts on an overloaded 1/2 or 3/4 ton. Not to mention the safety concerns.






Paul


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## SlickRick

I have a 2002 1/2 ton express w 98000 mi. that just sits around, today's strip the signs off day (fun, fun) It's been a good van, never in the shop, new brakes, ladder racks, bends, bulkhead, but no more employees for me than I have now, and I have 2 other trucks. It's paid for, be some good Christmas money.


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## express

I just started working out of a chevy 10' box truck. 9'-6" in height easy to park and turn around. If u get the ones with the wheel wells in the box it sits lower to the ground. 6' inside height. Get the 6.0 motor.


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## gear junkie

MT45. The only reason I like diesels are for the jake brake. This one has the allison and cummins combo which is an awsome pair. I have a step van myself and will never buy anything but a stepvan style vehicle.


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## Mississippiplum

gear junkie said:


> MT45. The only reason I like diesels are for the jake brake. This one has the allison and cummins combo which is an awsome pair. I have a step van myself and will never buy anything but a stepvan style vehicle.


Is the van u got a diesel?

sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## ChrisConnor

If not a box truck, I like extended Ford vans, better turning radius than extended Chevy vans.


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## johnlewismcleod

It depends on what type of work you do, I suppose. 

I've mostly worked out of box vans. The outside bins are extremely useful. I've been put in standard panel vans a few times, but it makes me less effective in the field due to not having room for, or ready access to, the tools and parts that I need.

The shop owner I'm working for now recently ordered me a Sprinter van with a diesel engine that by all accounts will get 20 mpg. They are expensive and don't have outside bin boxes, but if you drive any where near the miles I do everyday I'm pretty sure it'll pay for itself in fuel savings.

My point is that in making your choice, fuel efficiency might should figure into the decision...it's a big part of overhead :yes:


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## user2090

johnlewismcleod said:


> It depends on what type of work you do, I suppose.
> 
> I've mostly worked out of box vans. The outside bins are extremely useful. I've been put in standard panel vans a few times, but it makes me less effective in the field due to not having room for, or ready access to, the tools and parts that I need.
> 
> The shop owner I'm working for now recently ordered me a Sprinter van with a diesel engine that by all accounts will get 20 mpg. They are expensive and don't have outside bin boxes, but if you drive any where near the miles I do everyday I'm pretty sure it'll pay for itself in fuel savings.
> 
> My point is that in making your choice, fuel efficiency might should figure into the decision...it's a big part of overhead :yes:


Fuel efficiency is not a major part of my concern I don't travel that far overall.


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## gear junkie

Mississippiplum said:


> Is the van u got a diesel?
> 
> sent from my iPhone 10.5


Nope 5.7 Chevy engine. Easy to get parts for.


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## Plumbbum0203

Go cab over with hackney box


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## Will

I work out of a Step Van(P35) with a 350 V8 gas engine. And a Dodge Ram with a utility shell. It's only got a 318 in it, but I use it for my contract remodels work I do, and it works fairly well for that. I need a new vihicle in a bad way though. Probably get something within the next year or so. 

I'm going to get a 1 ton Ram with a cummins or a GMC/Chevy with a Duramax with a custom utility bed. I like haveing the different compartments, makes keeping things organized easier for me.


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## ToUtahNow

This is my current bed.


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## ToUtahNow

This is the bed I was working out of when I sold my business. I happen to see the truck when I was working in Las Vegas so I pulled him over to take pictures. He doesn't take care of the truck but to give you an idea, those vinyl letters were put on the truck in 1994. The painted lettering he added in 2000. I'd say the vinyl held up pretty well.

Mark


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## Tommy plumber

ToUtahNow said:


> This is the bed I was working out of when I sold my business. I happen to see the truck when I was working in Las Vegas so I pulled him over to take pictures. He doesn't take care of the truck but to give you an idea, those vinyl letters were put on the truck in 1994. The painted lettering he added in 2000. I'd say the vinyl held up pretty well.
> 
> Mark


 






Mark, a quick question for you, how did you come to be an expert witness in cases? Do you have lawyer friends? Did it pay well? Is a plumbing license all that's needed or do you have other credentials as well?


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## ToUtahNow

Tommy plumber said:


> Mark, a quick question for you, how did you come to be an expert witness in cases? Do you have lawyer friends? Did it pay well? Is a plumbing license all that's needed or do you have other credentials as well?


I had a friend who I use to take surfing in the 60's before he could drive. He later went on to become an Attorney but we still to this day talk frequently. In around 1988 he asked me to help him on a case where no one could figure out where the water came from in a slip and fall where a guy lost his leg. I was able to prove without a doubt, my friend's client was at fault. I assumed it would be the last case I ever did. However, the insurance company said all they wanted was the truth. They appreciated the fact I save them a ton of money defending the un-defend-able. From there I just started handing out cards on every case I did.

When I first started I was the only contractor working as an Expert. Everyone else was a Mechanical Engineer. I was accepted into the fold fairly easily and soon the other Experts were convincing their Attorneys they hire me as a co-Expert rather than working against me. As for qualifications, it really has more to do with credibility. I am licensed under IAMPO and IPC as both a Contractor and an Inspector in multiple States.

The compensation is very good but this economy has sucked the life out of the industry right now.

Mark


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## user2090

Went to Dealership today and got the salesman working on finding me a new van. He did find a newer KUV, KVU or something like Utahs. I like the looks of it, but he didn't get the pricing around. 

It has a look and feel that I am trying to get. I'm going to be looking at the specs a bit closer so that I can get an idea of what I could do with it.


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## HSI

I have the smaller size KUV on a single wheel Ford E350. If you go with that style I would recommend the bigger or taller KUV. I am outgrowing mine in a hurry.


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## user2090

HSI said:


> I have the smaller size KUV on a single wheel Ford E350. If you go with that style I would recommend the bigger or taller KUV. I am outgrowing mine in a hurry.


How do I know if it is the smaller or not? Is there a website that gives specs?


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## TerryO

Indie said:


> How do I know if it is the smaller or not? Is there a website that gives specs?


I have both the shorter KUV'S on a E350 and then this one on a Ford LCF ( my truck, no one ever works out of it but me ;-) ) You can stand up in the tall KUV'S but have to stoop over in the short one. 









The short KUV is the same height as the cab of the van.

Here's their web site: http://www.knapheide.com/products/kuv-bodies/

Terry Ohlmann / www.ActionAirPlumbing.com


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## rocksteady

That's a slick lookin' ride Terry. Gas or diesel? About what mgp do you get with that?





Paul


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## deerslayer

To give you an ideal Indie I have a shorter kuv that I have to stoop in. I carry a large ridgid camera monitor and locator, a k-50 and an electric eel c with 128' of cable, a porta pony and tristand, pump, 2 shopvacs, all the hand and power tools normally needed, a very good selection of service parts as well as piping and parts on the van at all times. I average 11-12 MPG on the chevy chassis with a 6.0 mine is a single rear wheel.

I am pushing for on I can stand up in for the next one! I am tall and my back hurts every time I gotta drag that eel out!:furious:


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## TerryO

rocksteady said:


> That's a slick lookin' ride Terry. Gas or diesel? About what mgp do you get with that?
> 
> Paul


It's a 2006 with a 4.5L V6 Power Stroke Diesel. Usually get 9 to 10 mpg but it is a 16,000 GVW, never overloaded it yet. Ford only made them from 2006 to 2009. 1000lb Tommy gate on the back. And yes you can stand up inside. That's why I hate working out of vans, you always have to crawl over your stuf to get to what you need. 

Terry Ohlmann / www.ActionAirPlumbing.com


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## HSI

TerryO said:


> I have both the shorter KUV'S on a E350 and then this one on a Ford LCF ( my truck, no one ever works out of it but me ;-) ) You can stand up in the tall KUV'S but have to stoop over in the short one.
> 
> The short KUV is the same height as the cab of the van.
> 
> Here's their web site: http://www.knapheide.com/products/kuv-bodies/
> 
> Terry Ohlmann / www.ActionAirPlumbing.com


Nice


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## mpot

This time last year I got into a new work truck. I traded in my e350 enclosed utility, I was upside down by thousands because of the niche market for these things. It was a good truck to work out of but way to big for the van suspension. I went out on a limb and ordered a Spacekap Max...found it online. I was intrigued by the easy off, easy on set up. Like a slip in camper. I ordered a 2012 f350 drw 8' bed. So far it is awesome to work out of. Looks a little awkward but grabs attention. Needs some lettering. 
When it's time to trade in this truck (3-4yrs) I will simply drop the 'kap' ,bring new truck home, slip kap back on. Takes 15 min with two people. 25 min solo. PLUS...it allowed me to add an additional snow removal truck. My van couldn't do that.


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## Drumma Plumma

mpot said:


> This time last year I got into a new work truck. I traded in my e350 enclosed utility, I was upside down by thousands because of the niche market for these things. It was a good truck to work out of but way to big for the van suspension. I went out on a limb and ordered a Spacekap Max...found it online. I was intrigued by the easy off, easy on set up. Like a slip in camper. I ordered a 2012 f350 drw 8' bed. So far it is awesome to work out of. Looks a little awkward but grabs attention. Needs some lettering.
> When it's time to trade in this truck (3-4yrs) I will simply drop the 'kap' ,bring new truck home, slip kap back on. Takes 15 min with two people. 25 min solo. PLUS...it allowed me to add an additional snow removal truck. My van couldn't do that.


Awesome truck! I looked at the spacekaps and other fiberglass slide in bodies for my 2011 Silverado crew cab 6.5' bed. The cost was a bit more than I could justify right now. I ended up putting an aluminum contractor cap on it with a ladder rack and a bedslide. Not as much space as you have, but it fits in my garage, which was a major dealbreaker for me.


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## user2090

Meeting with dealership and accessories guy today at 9:00 to sort out the best fit. Hopefully we can get the ball rolling on the new work vehicle.


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## user2090

Meeting with equipment rep for new van did not go well at all he only wanted to sell a nap hide KUB bed. 

The only other option he presented where the Adrian shelves for a regular Chevy express. 

Talk about a guy that could take some lessons in sales he should try listening to the customer.


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## rjbphd

Ever try the Upfitter???


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## ChrisConnor

Indie said:


> Meeting with equipment rep for new van did not go well at all he only wanted to sell a nap hide KUB bed.
> 
> The only other option he presented where the Adrian shelves for a regular Chevy express.
> 
> Talk about a guy that could take some lessons in sales he should try listening to the customer.



Key words, "WANTED TO SELL".

Funny how they sometimes try to force something on you. 

Listen to customers?? LOL Commissioned salespeople don't do that, especially when the don't control the options, you get what they have to sell or get it someplace else.

Most of them are either:
A. Ignorant of their product

B. Liars.

C. Both

When I was shopping for a truck for my Hackney body, I asked about some cab and chassis options from a local dealer, he asked what I wanted it for and I told him that I already picked the box, I just needed the truck. He said, "oh, just buy what I already have, I'm not ordering any cab and chassis when I have these box trucks already sitting on the lot." 

I bought the my truck elsewhere and the fellah called me back and said he was ready to deal now.


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## Master Mark

*Take a look at my little new freind*



Indie said:


> Meeting with equipment rep for new van did not go well at all he only wanted to sell a nap hide KUB bed.
> 
> The only other option he presented where the Adrian shelves for a regular Chevy express.
> 
> Talk about a guy that could take some lessons in sales he should try listening to the customer.


 
INDY ...I have not been here for a while but I thought I would show you what I just bought from the Notre Dame college campus..... its an older 13 foot ford box truck 1997 with 32,000 miles on it... I could not pass it up for the price


take a look at my new little freind... 


Just go find yourself a box truck and build your own shelves inside the unit to fit your needs....
I built shelves myself this week and I probalby got too much room 

I have room for 4 water heaters on the right hand side... the tommy gate is sweet too


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## U666A

Welcome back Mark!


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## user2090

I'm going to put the van upgrade on hold until after the beginning of the year. Decided for the time I can make due, and was not really happy with my options.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

My half ton express is 3 months from being paid for. Cat went out on it last week and the transmission a couple of years ago. I was thinking about buying another service van but decided to let this thing roll till it blows. 117k on the odometer. This will however be the last GM i ever buy and 1/2 ton.


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## plumb1bob

Last stepvan was 2005 chevy 3500, hauled around 9000 lbs total. 12 ft box dually, had a side door on pass side. loved than van. It met a quick death in a snow storm by a PROFFESIONAL LANDSCAPER plowing the wrong way on a off ramp to shopping center, New box truck is a 09 E450, If gas millage isn't an issue this is a great truck, v-10 has great power. box truck has doors in back, rollups don't last long, box is low, wheel wells in the box. I currently carry 11,000 lbs plumbing and hvac tools and supplies. only problem is in some rural areas an ocassional detour aroung weight resricted bridges.


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## dclarke

the spacekap is pretty cool. im nowhere close to owning my own company but if i were this would most likely be the option i would choose. it seems like in the long run it would be the most economical. plus less hassle when you do change trucks.


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## 130 PLUMBER

Maybe it's time to look at a dealer that specialize in custom work vans

http://www.maxxautocorp.com/gallery.php
http://www.hackneyplumbing.com/products/plumbing.php


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## user2090

I've decided that I will get a newer 3/4 or 1 ton chevy. Now the problem has become the dealer is having a hard time of finding a good enough slightly used van. Giving some serious thought to going new. 

Would you buy new? This is going to be my permanent service vehicle, and so the idea of new starts to become a bit more appealing, especially because I know that I will have it for years. The only hang up is the overall cost, but that is just a natural reaction for me trying to keep my costs down.


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## OldSchool

How much repairs have you paid on the van you are currently using and how much lost income ?


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## user2090

OldSchool said:


> How much repairs have you paid on the van you are currently using and how much lost income ?



The repair cost are standard oil, fluids, etc... With the exception of new tires. 

The lost income is a bit harder to calculate because it is hard to know for certain how much different the income would be with upgrading to a large vehicle with more capacity. 

My comparison is based on what I know I used to be able to do when I drove a 3/4 ton for other companies. Plus, with somethings that I have planned for the future the current 1/2 ton I drive will not be able to handle the additional weight. Right now I have the van maxed out for material and tools and you can see it squatting a bit. When I throw the snakes on its much worse.


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## OldSchool

Indie said:


> The repair cost are standard oil, fluids, etc... With the exception of new tires.
> 
> The lost income is a bit harder to calculate because it is hard to know for certain how much different the income would be with upgrading to a large vehicle with more capacity.
> 
> My comparison is based on what I know I used to be able to do when I drove a 3/4 ton for other companies. Plus, with somethings that I have planned for the future the current 1/2 ton I drive will not be able to handle the additional weight. Right now I have the van maxed out for material and tools and you can see it squatting a bit. When I throw the snakes on its much worse.


If that is the only problem ... Bring it into a spring shop and get them to beef up the suspension .... I have done that many times over the years ..


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## Will

I use these in my 1/2 ton Dodge Ram that I use sometimes. They really beef up the truck.

http://www.supersprings.com/


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## user2090

OldSchool said:


> If that is the only problem ... Bring it into a spring shop and get them to beef up the suspension .... I have done that many times over the years ..


At what point do you purchase a newer service vehicle? What type do you buy, and do you go used or new?


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## Will

My opinion: You buy whatever you can pay cash for. Don't buy new or make payments. Have some patience and buy something you can pay cash for.


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> My opinion: You buy whatever you can pay cash for. Don't buy new or make payments. Have some patience and buy something you can pay cash for.


In general I agree that being debt free is always best.

OTH: I became more profitable and more productive AFTER getting my first new work vehicle. The payment is made either way. Either at the garage and in lost time or just write the check. If (big IF) the cash flow is there, a new vehicle provides great benefits.


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## user2090

Will said:


> My opinion: You buy whatever you can pay cash for. Don't buy new or make payments. Have some patience and buy something you can pay cash for.


Will I am not saying that you are the type who drive around in old beat up vans, but what I am saying is that the guys who drive around in obviously old and beat up vans do not convey the level of professionalism that I am striving to achieve. 



plbgbiz said:


> In general I agree that being debt free is always best.
> 
> OTH: I became more profitable and more productive AFTER getting my first new work vehicle. The payment is made either way. Either at the garage and in lost time or just write the check. If (big IF) the cash flow is there, a new vehicle provides great benefits.


Yes, debt free is a good way to be. Yes, if more business owners learned how to actually figure the cost of lost down time they might be a little more diligent to buy newer with less problems. 

Down time costs me and I refuse to be the kind of guy who borrows trouble with trying to make my own repairs. 

Seems to me there is a member or two on here that have had nothing but mechanical problems with recent used purchases. :laughing:


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## Will

All I'm saying is if your Van is not a total POS, which it sounds like it isn't, I think you should set aside some money, even if it takes you 1 year from today, but when the right vehicle comes along, go get it. But pay cash for it and make sure it makes since with in your budget. 

Now the way I do my business might keep me from being a huge company from the start up of my business. But my style of business will keep me in business. I'll still be here 10 years from now turning a profit, and I will be able to sleep at night when it slows down, because I have no payments coming in at the end of the month. I will not have to lay people off or close shop because I got upside down on payments. My $4500 2001 Ford E350 extended will do the same work a 2013 will for 30k less. Not hard math. People will be just as happy with my service too, as long as I complete it like I said I would, and provide great service.


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## gear junkie

A paint job that matches original color isn't that expensive. I'm with Will on this....buy used.


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## plumb1bob

When you buy new, you can up fit the van with a contractors package, that way if you finance to cost can be depreciated with the van. Most manufacturers have programs for doing this


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## victoryplbaz

Ask your dealer if he will let you know when the big companies bring their leased vans in. Thats what i did and paid cash for them. The one i drive now is the only one i have had to pay payments on. But before that i got a 07 chevy with 54,000 for $5400.00 i dont like chevys but it was at a price i couldnt pass up. It finally died last year at 160,000 miles.


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## dclarke

victoryplbaz said:


> Ask your dealer if he will let you know when the big companies bring their leased vans in. Thats what i did and paid cash for them. The one i drive now is the only one i have had to pay payments on. But before that i got a 07 chevy with 54,000 for $5400.00 i dont like chevys but it was at a price i couldnt pass up. It finally died last year at 160,000 miles.


Did you not maintain it at all ? They shouldn't die that soon.


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## Will

It's a Chevy, what you except? 160k aint bad for a Chevy......:laughing:


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## plumb1bob

Had 150,000 miles on my '05 chevy 3500, the box was getting funky. Winters are hard on work trucks here, They see a snowflake and douse the roads with brine solution and rock salt. It would still be on the road, but it met a untimely end by a snowplow going the wrong way up a ramp onto the roadway. Took out the whole front end and cracked the block and bell housing on the tranny. miss that ride. Twice the comfort of the ford E450 I dive today, 90,000 miles. 3 yrs old. replaced ball joints twice now. New or used, maintenance is the key.


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## victoryplbaz

dclarke said:


> Did you not maintain it at all ? They shouldn't die that soon.


took very good care of it..Every chevy i have had seems to fall apart or die. Only ones that last are the fords.


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## alberteh

opposite for us here in northern canada. had all kinds of fords (logging) nothing but problems. (all diesel crewcab trucks) 

Chevy has been good to us. got a truck pushing 400k (KM or 240k miles) of hard bush roads and its still going.

they are all just machines though and will break eventually.


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## deerslayer

Indie said:


> Will I am not saying that you are the type who drive around in old beat up vans, but what I am saying is that the guys who drive around in obviously old and beat up vans do not convey the level of professionalism that I am striving to achieve.
> 
> A paid for van does not neccesarily have to be an old beat up van. Some folks think that it will give them a better perception with their customers and I think that is untrue except for the most persnickety of customer, which you may not wanna do biz with anyway. I hear from customers all the time that we drive around in new vans. The fact is mine is 7 years old and has 165k miles on it, used it would sell for 6-7k and it had has the KUV bed. As far as maintenence our trucks all average 2 days a year in the shop. That average is the new one purchased last year and mine that is 7 years old? Did I mention the new one with less than 15k miles needed a tranny before it was a year old, sure the warranty covered it but new doesn't always mean trouble free. Oh and mine with 165k miles is on the original tranny.
> Sometimes our perception is off of what customers care about IMHO. Obviously dents, dings, oil/fluid leaks and multi color krylon paintjobs are no no's. But a 10 year old van that looks like newand was well maintained with low miles, can net you a good vehicle that may last well past the 5 year payment scheme of a new one.
> 
> 
> Yes, debt free is a good way to be. Yes, if more business owners learned how to actually figure the cost of lost down time they might be a little more diligent to buy newer with less problems.
> 
> Down time costs me and I refuse to be the kind of guy who borrows trouble with trying to make my own repairs.
> 
> Seems to me there is a member or two on here that have had nothing but mechanical problems with recent used purchases. :laughing:


If you are buying new or used I would stay away from diesels, even though they get great fuel mileage they are far from trouble free with all the epa restrictions on them.


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## Mississippiplum

deerslayer said:


> If you are buying new or used I would stay away from diesels, even though they get great fuel mileage they are far from trouble free with all the epa restrictions on them.


I haven't had any problems with my truck and its 100 percent stock ( 6.7l cummins)


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## suzie

I belive in buying used too, a good runniing vehicle.. I bought mine at auction about 3 years ago for 2400 dollars. E-250 cargo van. knock on wood it has been a good friend to me.

Just one suggestion, if you live in a municipality and have to park on the street check out what restrictions they have for the larger box trucks.

I know a guy who operates the next suburb over and the city told him he couldn't keep parking the truck on the street since it was considered a commerical vehicle. Really, he sold his box truck to down size to a sprinter. note box truck was paid for and had low miles as he bought company from dad, now an extra expense.


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