# moentrol balance spool stuck



## PlumberJake

Any advice on how to remove the balance spool?

I can barely get it to turn about 1/8 of a turn then it stops again. It is in a newer home, spare bath and of course relatives staying the week found out the hard way that the cold is blocked off because of this spool.

My fear is that a piece of solder has made its way partially into the spool and that is why I can get it to turn a little, but then it stops.

If I need to cut the valve out I will need to remove the tile because the back side is a huge mirror over double vanity in master bath.


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## revenge

Usualy u take them out and shake the spool till u hear a rattel u can also turn water off pull out cartridge open cold side and tap on valve few times then try to remove. If tha doest work tap on v alve as u turn housing nut slowly but surly u get it let me know how it goes


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## Plumberman

Is it Moen that makes the cartridge puller or is that another brand?


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## revenge

Moen the sell them at lowes and home depot but the better quality one is at lowes 12 bucks


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## Redwood

_The following quote was corrected for spelling and grammer to improve readability. The content of the original message maintains the same meaning... I think... Maybe..._ :laughing:


revenge said:


> Usually you take out the cartridge, and shake the spool until you hear a rattling noise. You can also turn the water off, pull out cartridge, open cold side, and tap on the valve few times, then try to remove the spool. If that doesn't work tap on valve as you turn housing nut, slowly but surely you will get it, let me know how it goes.


This is a bit mind boggling... 
Pulling the cartridge and shaking the spool is something you would do on a Posi-Temp...
But then he switches gears and starts talking like something you would do with a MoenTrol... :blink: Maybe that wasn't worth decoding after all.... :laughing:



Plumberman said:


> Is it Moen that makes the cartridge puller or is that another brand?


The Cartridge Puller tool would work on the cartridge but not the balancing spool...


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## revenge

Oops tomany beers


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## Plumberman

Got ya Red...

Dont work on many Moens here, but I knew it was one or the other. Thanks


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## revenge

I could be wrong red but posi temps don't have balancing spools. All they have are carts, 1222 I believe, no shaking there just replace. As for moentrol it either can be the spool or 1225 cart.


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## Airgap

You can see in the pic it's not a posi temp, but a moentrol.


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## revenge

Yep


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## OldSchool

moentrol is the picture above and revenge is right..

take the balancing spool out ... that is were the big flat head or slot is on the right of cartridge.. it should rattle when you shake it... you might get the thing freed up... but more than likely it will stick again... buy a new spool and replace. then no call backs


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## Redwood

revenge said:


> I could be wrong red but posi temps don't have balancing spools. All they have are carts, 1222 I believe, no shaking there just replace. As for moentrol it either can be the spool or 1225 cart.


On the Posi-Temp the balancing spool is in the cartridge...

The MoenTrol in the picture the balancing spool is located between the cartridge and the integral cold stop....

The problem is the balancing spool is stuck and won't come out.....


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## Nevada Plumber

revenge said:


> I could be wrong red but posi temps don't have balancing spools. All they have are carts, 1222 I believe, no shaking there just replace. As for moentrol it either can be the spool or 1225 cart.


The balancing spool is on the inside of the Moen 1222 Positemp cartridge.

Oops, Redwood beat me to it.


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## Airgap

Brain fart..........


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## Nevada Plumber

I don't have good luck using flat head screw drivers to unscrew those balancing spools. The heads just aren't big enough, and I end up gouging the brass. I started to carry a dull wood chisel on my truck that fits those perfectly and lets them come out easily.


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## revenge

I had a couple stuck on me cut a quarter in half use vise grips w quarter gives enough leverage to turn


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## Plumb Bob

PlumberJake said:


> <img src="http://www.plumbingzone.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10579"/>
> 
> Any advice on how to remove the balance spool?
> 
> I can barely get it to turn about 1/8 of a turn then it stops again. It is in a newer home, spare bath and of course relatives staying the week found out the hard way that the cold is blocked off because of this spool.
> 
> My fear is that a piece of solder has made its way partially into the spool and that is why I can get it to turn a little, but then it stops.
> 
> If I need to cut the valve out I will need to remove the tile because the back side is a huge mirror over double vanity in master bath.


I use a chisel and adjustable wrench to remove spool. Put chisel end in slot and push, use adjustable wrench on flat part of chisel to turn and remove spool. You can try soaking spool in vinager to clean and loosen, or replace spool as needed.


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## revenge

Also parts are free if they original owner through moen


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## PlumberJake

Plumb Bob said:


> I use a chisel and adjustable wrench to remove spool. Put chisel end in slot and push, use adjustable wrench on flat part of chisel to turn and remove spool. You can try soaking spool in vinager to clean and loosen, or replace spool as needed.


Best sounding advice so far. Thanks! I gotta pick up a new spool tomorrow and will give it a shot.

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## rombo

Not sure where I got the bit originally, but I use a very wide bit on my milwaukee M18 impact. Haven't had one i couldn't get since I started using power. Replaced a few entire valve that i couldn't get out with a massive screw driver.


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## Associated Plum

revenge said:


> Also parts are free if they original owner through moen


If the client wants to deal with the manufacture for a warranted part we'll install it, but if we are furnishing the part they are going to pay for it.


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## OldSchool

Associated Plum said:


> If the client wants to deal with the manufacture for a warranted part we'll install it, but if we are furnishing the part they are going to pay for it.


We supply all moen parts for free.

Our wholesaler... supplies us with the parts for free and our customers benieft from that

Even if we marked it up 1,000 percent it still equals free


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## PLUMBER_BILL

PlumberJake said:


> Any advice on how to remove the balance spool?.
> <snip>
> 
> When pulling a Moen Balance Spool somtimes the brass cap pulls off
> especialy when the spool is stuck.
> 
> I made a tool for the purpose it's found on ...
> 
> http://parrsplumbing.blogspot.com/2008/11/tools-for-plumbers.html


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## Tommy plumber

I think Plumber Bill crafted a tool to remove that stubborn balancing spool. You remove the brass cover with the slot and then he had a tool that slides into the spool and hooks it and removes it. Plumber Bill (who invents cool plumbing tools) posted pictures on here somewhere, but I'm not sure where.





Edit: nevermind, I didn't read all the posts.


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## PlumberJake

Thanks all.

Went out today with a new spool and got the old one out by using a 12" crescent wrench on an old wood chisel that fit well in the slot on the spool cap. It wasn't quite enough torque to get it past the tough parts so I used an old flat blade screw driver and hammer to "tap" it the rest of the way.

Thanks again!


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## Plumb Bob

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> PlumberJake said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any advice on how to remove the balance spool?.
> <snip>
> 
> When pulling a Moen Balance Spool somtimes the brass cap pulls off
> especialy when the spool is stuck.
> 
> I made a tool for the purpose it's found on ...
> 
> http://parrsplumbing.blogspot.com/2008/11/tools-for-plumbers.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use easy out if needed.
> 
> Glad it all worked out for you PlumberJake.
Click to expand...


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## grandpa

RTFQ

He SAID it is Moentrol, and he KNOWS he needs to take out the spool. His QUESTION was how to get the brass cap off. I don't see an easy out coming to play on that one!!!!!!!


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## Plumb Bob

grandpa said:


> RTFQ
> 
> He SAID it is Moentrol, and he KNOWS he needs to take out the spool. His QUESTION was how to get the brass cap off. I don't see an easy out coming to play on that one!!!!!!!


Read the whole thread! 
Easy out would come into play if spool would not come out after cap is removed.


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## U666A

"rtfq"???


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## Airgap

U666A said:


> "rtfq"???


Read the "Freakin" question...


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## Plumb Bob

grandpa said:


> RTFQ
> 
> He SAID it is Moentrol, and he KNOWS he needs to take out the spool. His QUESTION was how to get the brass cap off. I don't see an easy out coming to play on that one!!!!!!!


I not Only "RTFQ" , I gave the best advice on how to remove the cap & spool. If you would put your glasses on and read the whole thread you would see this.


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## U666A

Airgap said:


> Read the "Freakin" question...


Merci


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## PeckPlumbing

I have had the brass plug stuck before. I used an extra large screwdriver with vice grips for leverage. .. as a last resort you could make that slot bigger with a dremel.. just be sure to have an extra cap on hand before you do it ;-)

I have also heated it before with a torch.. this ruins the oring behind the cap though. Make sure you do it with the 1200 removed.

Goodluck.


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## cdngolfer

I am investigating a Moentrol 1222 cartridge that failed and caused the shower to come on while the owners were away. The shower head was pointed toward the open shower curtain and since it ran a few days, caused about $100,000 water damage to the house.

The outermost O-ring was torn. Can this be the cause? The cartridge was already replaced by a plumber and I have what he left. 

How can a failure cause the water to run? What failed? I cannot determine this with the parts I have left. I have the spool and cartridge. I am supposing its the O-ring....?


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## U666A

cdngolfer said:


> I am investigating a Moentrol 1222 cartridge that failed and caused the shower to come on while the owners were away. The shower head was pointed toward the open shower curtain and since it ran a few days, caused about $100,000 water damage to the house.
> 
> The outermost O-ring was torn. Can this be the cause? The cartridge was already replaced by a plumber and I have what he left.
> 
> How can a failure cause the water to run? What failed? I cannot determine this with the parts I have left. I have the spool and cartridge. I am supposing its the O-ring....?


I would recommend that you post an intro in the introduction section if you wish to receive reciprocation on your query.

It's something we all did (even those of us who complained about a peepee slapping transpiring... :laughing: ) and it is a valuable tool to help us determine how much help you need. 

We would simply like to know about your involvement in the plumbing trade (apprentice, journeyman, intuitive homeowner :blink: etc.), years experience, jurisdiction and area(s) of expertise.

You'll find a wide variety of skilled professionals that participate here, and they (yes they, not me... Not really any good at anything... :laughing: )

If you extend us this courtesy the boys will be happy to help.

UA


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## plbgbiz

U666A said:


> ...You'll find a wide variety of skilled professionals that participate here, and they (yes they, not me... Not really any good at anything...


Do not be fooled by my well Organized brother's humble comments. No one on the Zone is better suited to orchestrate a lid sticker party. There are many reasons why he is the Zone Steward. :yes:

BTW: Don't take that intro request lightly either or Mr. Shins will unleash the fury of a clowder on you.


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## RealLivePlumber

Yeah, but after you answer the questions, you'll probably get subpoenaed. :whistling2:


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## cdngolfer

Good advise.

I thought the thread may have played out so I threw my question in and hope I did not step on it.

I posted my introduction

No, I am not one to normally do this at 3:30 am!


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## gitnerdun

cdngolfer said:


> I am investigating a Moentrol 1222 cartridge that failed and caused the shower to come on while the owners were away. The shower head was pointed toward the open shower curtain and since it ran a few days, caused about $100,000 water damage to the house.
> 
> The outermost O-ring was torn. Can this be the cause? The cartridge was already replaced by a plumber and I have what he left.
> 
> How can a failure cause the water to run? What failed? I cannot determine this with the parts I have left. I have the spool and cartridge. I am supposing its the O-ring....?


Details man! What are the details! How can you be sure it just turned itself on? Did you push the handle back to off and watch it turn back on! Has it been serviced recently? If so, was there a piece of the old cartridge still inside behind the new cart? Was there a problem before the owners went away? Did they just leave the water off and say they would fix it when they returned, only to have some pool guy turn on the main to fill the pool and not turn it back off? Insurance gonna cover anything or are they asking these questions too?

Lots of questions, answers?

No, I have never seen a moen anything turn itself on.


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## Richard Hilliard

cdngolfer. a little piece of rubber was left in the valve housing that pushed the pivot pin to the on position.


The tool to unscrew the spool is a 1.25 wood chisel and a crescent wrench. If it does not break the top off it will unscrew the spool.


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## Plumb Bob

cdngolfer said:


> I am investigating a Moentrol 1222 cartridge that failed and caused the shower to come on while the owners were away. The shower head was pointed toward the open shower curtain and since it ran a few days, caused about $100,000 water damage to the house.
> 
> The outermost O-ring was torn. Can this be the cause? The cartridge was already replaced by a plumber and I have what he left.
> 
> How can a failure cause the water to run? What failed? I cannot determine this with the parts I have left. I have the spool and cartridge. I am supposing its the O-ring....?


I have seen moentrol valves turn themselves OFF if stainless washer is not installed on stem prior to handle being installed.


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## cdngolfer

Richard Hilliard said:


> cdngolfer. a little piece of rubber was left in the valve housing that pushed the pivot pin to the on position.
> 
> 
> The tool to unscrew the spool is a 1.25 wood chisel and a crescent wrench. If it does not break the top off it will unscrew the spool.


Thank you

I will investigate that possibility


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## cdngolfer

gitnerdun said:


> Details man! What are the details! How can you be sure it just turned itself on? Did you push the handle back to off and watch it turn back on! Has it been serviced recently? If so, was there a piece of the old cartridge still inside behind the new cart? Was there a problem before the owners went away? Did they just leave the water off and say they would fix it when they returned, only to have some pool guy turn on the main to fill the pool and not turn it back off? Insurance gonna cover anything or are they asking these questions too?
> 
> Lots of questions, answers?
> 
> No, I have never seen a moen anything turn itself on.


Unfortunately, I was asked to investigate after the plumber replaced the cartridge. The owners are still away on vacation. I have a call into the plumber to ask him detailed questions. I am sure it was not servised in the 12 years since the house was built.
Insurance will cover the claim. They want me to determine if the faucet was defective. It looks like wear and tear at this point.


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## Redwood

cdngolfer said:


> They want me to determine if the faucet was defective. It looks like wear and tear at this point.


Ut Oh...

Case Dismissed... :whistling2:


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## Widdershins

cdngolfer said:


> Unfortunately, I was asked to investigate after the plumber replaced the cartridge. The owners are still away on vacation. I have a call into the plumber to ask him detailed questions. I am sure it was not servised in the 12 years since the house was built.
> Insurance will cover the claim. They want me to determine if the faucet was defective. It looks like wear and tear at this point.


 You really have no business being here.


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## Widdershins

Widdershins said:


> You really have no business being here.


 I see at least one person peripherally associated with the Trade banned at least once a week -- And yet here you still are.

Go figger.


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## sikxsevn

Widdershins said:


> I see at least one person peripherally associated with the Trade banned at least once a week -- And yet here you still are.
> 
> Go figger.


No kidding


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## omielo

*what kind of easy out to use to remove moen 1423 balancing spool*



Plumb Bob said:


> Read the whole thread!
> Easy out would come into play if spool would not come out after cap is removed.


Hello,

I am trying to replace a Moen 1423 balancing spool. I used a force driver with a large bit to remove the brass cap that was stuck.
Unfortunately the brass cap disconnected from the silver core and it is stuck inside the valve.
I have tried to use a pick to grab a hole of the core and pull on it but I could not extract it.
You mentioned you use "easy out" to do the job, can you refer me to what you use to do it.

Thanks a lot,
Oliver.


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## OpenSights

omielo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to replace a Moen 1423 balancing spool. I used a force driver with a large bit to remove the brass cap that was stuck.
> Unfortunately the brass cap disconnected from the silver core and it is stuck inside the valve.
> I have tried to use a pick to grab a hole of the core and pull on it but I could not extract it.
> You mentioned you use "easy out" to do the job, can you refer me to what you use to do it.
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> Oliver.


Oliver, this is a Professional Plumber ONLY site. Hence the label at the top right of your screen.

The only advice you will get here is to call a licensed plumber.


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## skoronesa

omielo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am trying to replace a Moen 1423 balancing spool. I used a force driver with a large bit to remove the brass cap that was stuck.
> Unfortunately the brass cap disconnected from the silver core and it is stuck inside the valve.
> I have tried to use a pick to grab a hole of the core and pull on it but I could not extract it.
> You mentioned you use "easy out" to do the job, can you refer me to what you use to do it.
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> Oliver.



I suggest you read the last four posts in this thread and then go suck on that moen valve and the spool might come out. Hopefully it lodges in your windpipe.

*PLUMBING PROFESSIONALS ONLY*





.


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## omielo

*what kind of easy out to use to remove moen 1423 balancing spool*



OpenSights said:


> Oliver, this is a Professional Plumber ONLY site. Hence the label at the top right of your screen.
> .


Sorry ! The advises were so good I should have guessed they were from professionals.

Thank you and sorry.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

besides this thread is almost 9 years old.......


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## omielo

*what kind of easy out to use to remove moen 1423 balancing spool*



ShtRnsdownhill said:


> besides this thread is almost 9 years old.......


It seems I have a valve 22 years old so those posts are still valid today


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## ShtRnsdownhill

omielo said:


> It seems I have a valve 22 years old so those posts are still valid today



true, but the people discussing them are looooong gone...


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## Tango

@omielo you are not allowed to join so stop posting.


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