# New construction steel framing vs wood framing? Learning curve?



## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Hey all, been a while since I have been on this site. Question, I am going to be bidding a job, New construction, multi level single family home. It may be four levels (not sure as I don't have plans yet). I have been working as a plumber since the early 80's and always worked on stick (wood) framing. This new house is going to be steel framing, not sure what the learning curve will be. Maybe I am overthinking this? I am not sure, as I am use to using my whole hog and sawzall and cutting all my holes. I know steel framing has some pre-drilled holes and knock outs, but how much drilling, and cutting will be required? Not sure what else that I may not be thinking about? Has anyone plumbed both wood and steel framed buildings ground up? What differences will I be up against? Thanks in advance...


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Plumb Bob said:


> ............... Has anyone plumbed both wood and steel framed buildings ground up? What differences will I be up against? Thanks in advance...



The couple times I've done it the biggest pitd was where the pipe went through a stud, just had to use *mickey clips* on each one to prevent contact with the sharp steel edge.

Make sure you have a good assortment of self tapping sheet metal screws. 

Get a couple new holesaws.


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> The couple times I've done it the biggest pitd was where the pipe went through a stud, just had to use *mickey clips* on each one to prevent contact with the sharp steel edge.
> 
> Make sure you have a good assortment of self tapping sheet metal screws.
> 
> ...


Also, you’re going to want to grab quite a few extra pilot bits for those hole saws. The hole saw likes to catch on the stud and the pilot bit will bend and be useless. After a while you’ll get the hang of how to apply pressure to the drill and you won’t wreck so many bits.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Steel studs can be frustrating, until you get the hang of it, esp if they only have one screw securing them to the bottom plate/channel, cuz they torque and move around. Wear leather gloves, that sheit is sharp. I have a buddy who uses this:










it’s pricy, but apparently they last way longer then reg hole saws. The cool thing is the spring pushes out the cutout so no time wasted trying to dig it out. Altho You can just put a spring in your hole saw. I don’t deal with enough steel studs to buy this, but it might be worth looking into.


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

Might be worth seeing if you could rent a stud punch and roll it into the bid. It's similar to an electrician knockout punch, and there are powered versions available. Be a huge time-saver.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Yep a stud punch is a must with plastic sleeves. You have to be aware if the structure is metal your rough might end up in steel beams and will have to enlagre walls by+- 6". Happened to me 20 years ago, many entire walls had to be upsized, all the drains were in the steel beams.
If the floors are concrete you will need sleeves or core drill.

Then adjustable steel braces for stub outs.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

There's a learning curve, but with your experience you'll figure it out. Assuming you're in business to make a buck, guestimating the time required, now there's the rub. I would bump my labor 20% for running waste, vent, water and gas above subfloor.
You can use a stud punch if the framing is 20 ga. Otherwise, it will be hole saws, like the Greenlee kit above. I've even used a cutting torch in the past. Having a kit like this might
come in handy on structural members too hardened for even the stoutest hole saws.
What type of flooring and joists will you be dealing with?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Plumbus said:


> There's a learning curve, but with your experience you'll figure it out. Assuming you're in business to make a buck, guestimating the time required, now there's the rub. I would bump my labor 20% for running waste, vent, water and gas above subfloor.
> You can use a stud punch if the framing is 20 ga. Otherwise, it will be hole saws, like the Greenlee kit above. I've even used a cutting torch in the past. Having a kit like this might
> come in handy on structural members too hardened for even the stoutest hole saws.
> What type of flooring and joists will you be dealing with?
> ...


Thats a nice one to have.... 
I had to buy one back in 1990 for a metal job with a bunch of studs to put holes in 
and now the dam thing is still hanging on the wall waiting to be used again..... 

what did you pay for that one??
I also got a baby cutting torch that actually made the job go faster
and the rubber hoses are all rotted out sitting around for years....


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> Thats a nice one to have....
> I had to buy one back in 1990 for a metal job with a bunch of studs to put holes in
> and now the dam thing is still hanging on the wall waiting to be used again.....
> 
> ...


I bought mine so long ago that I can't remember what I paid. When I typed in a web search for the stud punch, one of the options was a link to a supplier of replacement parts, a handy site since mine needs some TLC.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

On some jobs stud punches weren't available. I would grind a U shape and bend the metal downward. Even faster than a punch for 1 1/2" pipe.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Plumbus said:


> What type of flooring and joists will you be dealing with?


I have not received plans yet, all I know is steel framed construction.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Plumb Bob said:


> I have not received plans yet, all I know is steel framed construction.


Probably a long shot but maybe grab 1/4" and 3/8" taps if you don't normally keep a set on the van.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Stud punch and pipe tites.........


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Hold rite brackets..


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

dhal22 said:


> Stud punch and pipe tites.........


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Sstratton6175 said:


> Also, you’re going to want to grab quite a few extra pilot bits for those hole saws. The hole saw likes to catch on the stud and the pilot bit will bend and be useless. After a while you’ll get the hang of how to apply pressure to the drill and you won’t wreck so many bits.


I pre drill my pilot holes before I put the holesaw on the arbor,esp. on tub and shower stalls


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Cutting torch is the fastest and best way IMO,esp if in heavy gauge metal studs


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> View attachment 127528
> 
> 
> View attachment 127529


Thats the one I got hanging on my wall..... you interested in buying it??/ cheap....


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## SC Plumbing Repair (Dec 7, 2020)

dhal22 said:


> View attachment 127528
> 
> 
> View attachment 127529


Make sure to use the ones that dhal22 has pictured here, those solid (usually purple) ones can be a PITA to insert.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

sparky said:


> Cutting torch is the fastest and best way IMO,esp if in heavy gauge metal studs


Provided you have a fire extinguisher handy.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> Thats the one I got hanging on my wall..... you interested in buying it??/ cheap....


Maybe? I should probably wait to see if I get the job first...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Plumb Bob said:


> Maybe? I should probably wait to see if I get the job first...


That tool worked pretty well for me but it only made a one inch hole so
you had to make a number of cuts to get it large enough for a 2 inch pvc pipe to go through
it was fast but kind of made a sloppy hole..... 
glad I did not need it for hundreds of studs to do...

getting a cutting torch probably easier


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> That tool worked pretty well for me but it only made a one inch hole so
> you had to make a number of cuts to get it large enough for a 2 inch pvc pipe to go through
> it was fast but kind of made a sloppy hole.....
> glad I did not need it for hundreds of studs to do...
> ...


Or I have used a stud punch to make a starter hole then I take a pair of right and left snips and cut the stud out with a nice circle,if the snips are good and haven't molded to someone else's hand then it will cut studs out very fast


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> Thats the one I got hanging on my wall..... you interested in buying it??/ cheap....



Greenlee only on stud punch. I have 2 of them, don't need another.


And red Pipetites only as well. The blue and purple ones are indeed PITAs.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

dhal22 said:


> Greenlee only on stud punch. I have 2 of them, don't need another.
> 
> 
> And red Pipetites only as well. The blue and purple ones are indeed PITAs.


We don't use pipetites we just slide 3/4" per pipe over the 1/2" per pipe where it passes thru the sharp studs


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

You can get the squeeze type stud punches that will make a hole big enough for 2" pipe and another one that will take pipetites for water.If you run into heavy gauge studs the Greenlee hydraulic punch makes nice holes and is relatively quick with no mess,used them to make up to 4" holes.
Sometimes we got the carpenters to let us layout our holes through the decks and they would not run the bottom track in those areas,saved a little time.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> View attachment 127528
> 
> 
> View attachment 127529


I just remembered a remod job at a dentist office/medical building years ago where we had to deal with metal studs. Most holes were made with this tool. Some he had to use a hole saw. I’m trying to remember what we did to protect the pvc.
That was one job that I truly don’t want to remember. We had to cut open the wood floors to run drains and water. We slightly knicked the engineered joists, which our inspector noted in the computer. They poured $40k worth of self leveling. Then the building inspector wanted to see the joists we knicked. So we bursted up the new concrete and let the contractor remove their repairs. They ended up hacking up the joists way worse! I don’t remember what came of the whole mess. The contractor is the dentist’s brother. All I know is that either he quit or was fired.

This is one buildings that I’m grateful that I don’t have to deal with anymore!


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

OpenSights said:


> I just remembered a remod job at a dentist office/medical building years ago where we had to deal with metal studs. Most holes were made with this tool. Some he had to use a hole saw. I’m trying to remember what we did to protect the pvc.
> That was one job that I truly don’t want to remember. We had to cut open the wood floors to run drains and water. We slightly knicked the engineered joists, which our inspector noted in the computer. They poured $40k worth of self leveling. Then the building inspector wanted to see the joists we knicked. So we bursted up the new concrete and let the contractor remove their repairs. They ended up hacking up the joists way worse! I don’t remember what came of the whole mess. The contractor is the dentist’s brother. All I know is that either he quit or was fired.
> 
> This is one buildings that I’m grateful that I don’t have to deal with anymore!


Because you plumbed it,bahahahahahahahahaha


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

WendyPayne said:


> How much did it cost to order new beams?


Yes.


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