# adding drain cleaning !



## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

Recently I decided to get into drain cleaning to add to my business. I ordered a k45a, k6200, mini see snake with lt1000m.
I have never used this equipment ever so the ridgid rep agreed to give us some training. As well i am looking for someine with ample experience to help get this ship sailing. There is RR set up here but they are not very well liked. Im still in the stages of figuring what to charge for each machine - or go with a use whatever it takes for x/hr. Currently our shop rate is 87/hr. I need some help if anyone figured out on how to charge to pay off the machines and get the profits flowing. Also how do the employees get paid? Per job? Percentage of job? Per billable hour? Per hour?


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

How do you plan on marketing drain cleaning service? Are you passing up alot of jobs now?


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

I pass up usually a minimum of 1 call per day. I will market heavily on the web and take out a few ads in the paper.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

if u are passing up one call a day it will pay off fast

it all depends on what equipment u are using for what task

Nonetheless, charge for the machine and your time


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

How are you getting paid?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

highpoint said:


> How are you getting paid?


Cash, checks, credit card


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

highpoint said:


> Also how do the employees get paid? Per job? Percentage of job? Per billable hour? Per hour?


This is what I meant.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

it all depends how you are already set up

Do you pay by the hour or job?

Stick to the same method


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

highpoint said:


> Recently I decided to get into drain cleaning to add to my business. I ordered a k45a, k6200, mini see snake with lt1000m.
> I have never used this equipment ever so the ridgid rep agreed to give us some training. As well i am looking for someine with ample experience to help get this ship sailing. There is RR set up here but they are not very well liked. Im still in the stages of figuring what to charge for each machine - or go with a use whatever it takes for x/hr. Currently our shop rate is 87/hr. I need some help if anyone figured out on how to charge to pay off the machines and get the profits flowing. Also how do the employees get paid? Per job? Percentage of job? Per billable hour? Per hour?


I'll make a few number assumptions then you can plug in your actual figures to get specific. For this illustration, let's say you spent $20,000 on the equipment.

Assuming:
5 - actual "billable" hours per day per van (all services, not just drains)
25 - actual "billable" hours per week per van (all services, not just drains)
2 - service vans on the road per day
3 - weeks of downtime per van per year (sick, vacation, holidays, etc.)

This calculates to:
8.17 - billable weeks of actual work per month
204.25 - billable hours of actual work per month
98 - total billable weeks of actual work for all vans combined per year

98 weeks * 25 billable hours per week = 2,450 billable hours annually
$87hr * 2,450 billable hours = $213,150 annual gross revenue
All of that is where you stood before buying $20,000 of new equipment.

Divide the cost of the equipment by however many billable hours you want to have it paid off in. For instance...

1 month payoff - $20,000 / 204.25 = $97.92 per hour added to your existing rate

2 month payoff - $20,000 / 408.50 = $48.96 per hour added to your existing rate

3 month payoff - $20,000 / 612.75 = $32.64 per hour added to your existing rate

4 month payoff - $20,000 / 817.00 = $24.48 per hour added to your existing rate

5 month payoff - $20,000 / 1,021.25 = $19.58 per hour added to your existing rate

6 month payoff - $20,000 / 1,225.50 = $16.32 per hour added to your existing rate

7 month payoff - $20,000 / 1,429.75 = $13.99 per hour added to your existing rate

8 month payoff - $20,000 / 1,634.00 = $12.24 per hour added to your existing rate

9 month payoff - $20,000 / 1,838.25 = $10.88 per hour added to your existing rate

12 month payoff - $20,000 / 2,451 = $8.16 per hour added to your existing rate

(The total billable hours get off by an hour or so by the end of the year but you'll get the idea.)

Your drain equipment is simply another overhead expense to be accounted for in your billable hour rate. There are a thousand different ways to account for it by charging different amounts for different services, adding on "machine charges", or special widget fees. None of them are right or wrong. Just pick a billing method that works for you that is consistent, predictable, and most important of all that you can sell.

In the end you have only a certain number of billable hours in a given day per truck so just do the math on how you need to cover the new overhead expense of drain equipment.

Here's another idea for anyone that wants the equipment but doesn't have the cash (based on the numbers above)....
Add $17 per hour to your rate now and pay cash for all of it in 6 months.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> I'll make a few number assumptions then you can plug in your actual figures to get specific. For this illustration, let's say you spent $20,000 on the equipment.
> 
> Assuming:
> 5 - actual "billable" hours per day per van (all services, not just drains)
> ...


Why in the world would you cover this expense in your hourly rate...

Just bill out the use of the machine each and every time...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Why in the world would you cover this expense in your hourly rate...
> 
> Just bill out the use of the machine each and every time...


I consider the drain equipment expense part of the overall overhead of the company. It has to be paid for whether a drain call comes in or not. No different than postage expenses. It will cost a certain amount of dollars to mail invoices each year. Since every customer doesn't need a copy of their invoice mailed, should I add a $0.43 postage fee to the ones that do?

It's just part of the overhead of our company that has to be paid when we show up at the door. Some days people need the K1500 and some days they need a power vise. It's all got to be paid no matter what tool is used. Even if they only needed bib washers, the equipment still has to be paid. It is a cost of doing business just like turning on the lights.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> ...Just bill out the use of the machine each and every time...


If he is only getting one drain call per day, that might make his machine fee per call so high that he can't compete.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

The only thing I cover on operating expense is the everyday stuff.... vehicles, fuel, office expense ... etc

specialty tools are charged out per task...backhoe.... sewer auger... etc

either that my customers would never be able to afford me


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Another way of looking at it is that the expense is constant and not related to its use. So....it seems inappropriate to charge for it based on use.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> If he is only getting one drain call per day, that might make his machine fee per call so high that he can't compete.


for my k1500 I charge an additional $ 90.00 buck for each use..


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> The only thing I cover on operating expense is the everyday stuff.... vehicles, fuel, office expense ... etc
> 
> specialty tools are charged out per task...backhoe.... sewer auger... etc
> 
> either that my customers would never be able to afford me


He indicated he borrowed money to pay for it. That makes it every day stuff.




highpoint said:


> ...if anyone figured out on how to charge to pay off the machines...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

That monthly payment will show up with painful consistency.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I wonder how much he borrowed.....

could amortize it over the life span of the equipment or over 1/2 the life span


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Another way of looking at it is that the expense is constant and not related to its use. So....it seems inappropriate to charge for it based on use.


Bare with me, but it seems that if you pay for specialty tools from total billable hours, are'nt customers who don't need them paying for them? It seem's to make sense to charge only as there needed so as OS mentioned, to keep cost's down for other customer's.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

89plumbum said:


> Bare with me, but it seems that if you pay for specialty tools from total billable hours, are'nt customers who don't need them paying for them? It seem's to make sense to charge only as there needed so as OS mentioned, to keep cost's down for other customer's.


 Then the money would have to come out of his what used to be his profit amount.Every other dollar amount has been alotted to the business.

Now if he paid cash it would be easier financially to just charge per use.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I bill out a service call(half my hourly rate) and bill out my time on sewer calls. I have a upcharge for roofs, camera work, locating, rootx treatment, bioclean etc. IF you buy the right equipment and get enough calls in you will pay for your equipment fast.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

I had the money in the bank so it's not like I'm paying interest.
I've just been playing with different ideas on how to pay the boys using the equipment that it might work out they can make some extra loot depending on how they get paid(%,per job, per hr, etc.)


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

highpoint said:


> I had the money in the bank so it's not like I'm paying interest.
> I've just been playing with different ideas on how to pay the boys using the equipment that it might work out they can make some extra loot depending on how they get paid(%,per job, per hr, etc.)


 I see now.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

highpoint said:


> ...I need some help if anyone figured out on how to charge to pay off the machines and get the profits flowing...





highpoint said:


> I had the money in the bank so it's not like I'm paying interest....


:blink:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

89plumbum said:


> Bare with me, but it seems that if you pay for specialty tools from total billable hours, are'nt customers who don't need them paying for them?...


Well...(pause for reflection :laughing 

Yes, that's exactly what it means. Specialty or not, the business had to spend capital to acquire the tool. Whether or not a customer happens to call for its use is irrelevant. The business spent the money and the money must be recovered from customers.

All I'm saying is that waiting for a sewer call to come in is not the way I would approach covering an overhead expense. I don't charge a particular customer for having a particular specialty tool. I charge every customer for having all the specialty tools. 

I don't think I would be able to effectively compete in our area if I were to add a $90 machine fee for the use of a K1500. There are too many people that will show up with one for $90 total. The same could be said for our camera work, using a Pro-Press, or any number of other "specialty tools".

Every customer is paying for the purchase, maintenance, and replacement of every asset a business owns. So, it really doesn't matter how you go about it. OS' method works well for him and his customers Ours works well for us. In the end, I doubt there is more than $.05 difference between the two other than perception.

It's all apples vs. oranges. They both taste good, you just have to choose which one you want to eat.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

highpoint said:


> ...I've just been playing with different ideas on how to pay the boys using the equipment that it might work out they can make some extra loot depending on how they get paid(%,per job, per hr, etc.)


I wouldn't change your method of compensation just because you're adding on a relatively common plumbing service to your offering.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> The only thing I cover on operating expense is the everyday stuff.... vehicles, fuel, office expense ... etc
> 
> specialty tools are charged out per task...backhoe.... sewer auger... etc
> 
> either that my customers would never be able to afford me



I have to agree.

I add a surcharge for the use of drain machines or pipe freezer or backflow test equipment or (new to me) camera system to the hourly rate.

Keeps the hourly rate affordable to the lady needing seats and cartridges and yet reasonable overall for the customer requiring specialty tasks.




EDIT: Keeping in mind that the surcharge is not and does not have to be an amortized amount designed to pay the machine off in X number of uses/calls. Understand that you are getting paid hourly (or quoted/flat rate), anyhow as well on a job that you otherwise would not have without the specialty equipment. So, in effect you are creating a market and work for yourself by offering the extra service(s). The specialty tool is also being paid for in the diluted hourly rate too. The surcharge is a bit of a spiff on top that could be likened to an interest only payment on the capital expense while the hourly rate supports the return on investment...





Mark


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I have a competitor that charges $75 an hour for the plumber PLUS 30 an hour for the drain machine if it's a drain call. Most T&M shops just tack on a machine charge of about $45.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Flat rate for drains. 2"-4"-Vent-2man. Hourly rate for camera, jetter, 2 hour min.

Equipment charge for backhoe, jackhammer, air compressor(big), leak locator, trencher, propress, ect.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

How many guys have a helper and what's he charged out at? When hourly.
I like the idea of 2 hr min @ x/hr.
Keeps it much simpler I think , and a good
Way to motivate men - if you're quick an good


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## the plumber VA (Mar 3, 2011)

Flat rates. Mains, sinks, toilet auger, etc. More money


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

the plumber VA said:


> Flat rates. Mains, sinks, toilet auger, etc. More money


 





You sound like the real deal, but new bees are required to post us an intro in the introduction section. Years in the trade, licenses held, etc.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

All this is new to me I'd never even seen a drum machine or anything until helping a service plumber friend of mine two towns over about a month ago and that he was making a lot more money than I with 1/10 the overhead/exposure. So I made the jump to buy the k45af,k6200 and mini see snake.
Looks like a jetter is very popular as well.


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## 907plumber (Mar 13, 2010)

Im just now getting into drain cleaning too. I'm actually liking it! Pretty easy money so far! And no inventory to keep on hand or guessing about which parts to bring. For me that k-6200 is mostly the money maker. I have the k-380 and I always try it first cause its lighter and smaller, but it doesnt have the reach that the 6200 has. For the most part though, my little ridgid handheld unit I got for 30 bucks is the one I use the most! I love those "my bathtub is not draining" calls. Man, in and out in 15 minutes!

I'm thinking of really expanding into this even more. Yesterday I couldnt get a house unclogged, so I had the customer call another company out, that was cool watching them work and the equipment they had. Still dont know whats blocking the pipe. They have to bring in a pump truck to clear the line (supposedly today) so they can run the camera down. At first they thought it was frozen, but I guess thats not the case.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

907plumber said:


> Im just now getting into drain cleaning too. I'm actually liking it! Pretty easy money so far! And no inventory to keep on hand or guessing about which parts to bring. For me that k-6200 is mostly the money maker. I have the k-380 and I always try it first cause its lighter and smaller, but it doesnt have the reach that the 6200 has. For the most part though, my little ridgid handheld unit I got for 30 bucks is the one I use the most! I love those "my bathtub is not draining" calls. Man, in and out in 15 minutes!
> 
> I'm thinking of really expanding into this even more. Yesterday I couldnt get a house unclogged, so I had the customer call another company out, that was cool watching them work and the equipment they had. Still dont know whats blocking the pipe. They have to bring in a pump truck to clear the line (supposedly today) so they can run the camera down. At first they thought it was frozen, but I guess thats not the case.


How do u price in your area?
Im still kicking ideas around on what to do there. My equipment arrives Tuesday - and I am stoked. 
I ordered a k6200, k45af, miniseesnake with laptop interface.


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## 907plumber (Mar 13, 2010)

highpoint said:


> How do u price in your area?
> Im still kicking ideas around on what to do there. My equipment arrives Tuesday - and I am stoked.
> I ordered a k6200, k45af, miniseesnake with laptop interface.


I tack on 25 extra to my hourly rate if I Haul the 6200 off the truck, but that is just for the first hour any additional hours and its normal rate. And I based this off of that is just what the other companies do.

And if I just use a hand powered auger then I charge my normal rate too.

I was fortunate in finding all my equipment used and I got a good deal on it and not much of an investment so I didnt have to do any fany figuring on how Im gonna pay it off.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

This doesn't seem like enough . Unless youre 150/hr an have a relatively low overhead. A 2 hr minimum seems to be nationwide as well.


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## 907plumber (Mar 13, 2010)

highpoint said:


> This doesn't seem like enough . Unless youre 150/hr an have a relatively low overhead. A 2 hr minimum seems to be nationwide as well.


Yeah I'd like to charge more but that seems to be the going rate here (125.00) an hour. I think roto rooter is more though. I do have low overhead. Its just me, no advertising, no shop, no payments except for the van. And most jobs are within 10 miles of me.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

907plumber said:


> Yeah I'd like to charge more but that seems to be the going rate here (125.00) an hour. I think roto rooter is more though. I do have low overhead. Its just me, no advertising, no shop, no payments except for the van. And most jobs are within 10 miles of me.


u get 125/hr even if ur replacing a faucet or doing a rough in?

thats unreal if u do.

we're $85 here and im higher than most.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

highpoint said:


> All this is new to me I'd never even seen a drum machine or anything until *helping a service plumber friend of mine two towns over about a month ago and that he was making a lot more money than I with 1/10 the overhead/exposure.* So I made the jump to buy the k45af,k6200 and mini see snake.
> Looks like a jetter is very popular as well.


Shhhhhh :whistling2:
Don't be telling those plumbers that look down on drain cleaning hear that stuff....

Lets just keep this our little secret okay?


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## 907plumber (Mar 13, 2010)

highpoint said:


> u get 125/hr even if ur replacing a faucet or doing a rough in?
> 
> thats unreal if u do.
> 
> we're $85 here and im higher than most.


No my regular rate is 80-100. If its something that takes me less than 20 minutes and they pay me with check or cash then I usually charge 80.00. And repeat customers always get the break. 

if I'm there almost the entire hour and I have to break out carpet saver, special tools or if the job is a pain cause no one thought to clear out their crap in front of whatever I'm working on then it's 100.00

Usually I try to do everything flat rate if I can. I only qoute by the hour if there are unknown variables.

And I'm about the cheapest licensed plumber around . 

Keep in mind im in Alaska and everything is expensive here.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

907plumber said:


> No my regular rate is 80-100. If its something that takes me less than 20 minutes and they pay me with check or cash then I usually charge 80.00. And repeat customers always get the break.
> 
> if I'm there almost the entire hour and I have to break out carpet saver, special tools or if the job is a pain cause no one thought to clear out their crap in front of whatever I'm working on then it's 100.00
> 
> ...


Well I'm in Canada an it's expensive here too-(except hospital visits, lol)

Do u have the 2 hr min in drain cleaning as well then?


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## the plumber VA (Mar 3, 2011)

Here in DC, I flat rate. $450.00 for a main, $225 for a kitchen. Period, and emergencies are more.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

My new tools showed up at the en of the day. Have a long day camera-ing drains for insurance tomorrow. 
Gotta learn quick my k6200 - first to load to cable from the box into drum - that's a pain in my ass, there's gotta be a better way.
Local RR called me today as word is out I'm in the biz now-making sure I'm not gonna undercut him. Told me he's charging 170 for res. drains 180 for comm drains and 160 for camera for the first 2 hours, then per hr after that. Seemed pretty vague to me.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

highpoint said:


> ...Local RR called me today as word is out I'm in the biz now-making sure I'm not gonna undercut him...


You should have told him you were having to turn customers away at $400 per call. Ask him if he would like your overflow. :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> You should have told him you were having to turn customers away at $400 per call. Ask him if he would like your overflow. :laughing:


Heck I might even say $450... :laughing:


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## okieplumber01 (Jan 22, 2012)

we charge 75 hr for our achine and 10 dollars per extra cable we have to hook on up to 3 cables. we do on average 9 to 11 sewers a day. we cant keep up with sewer cleaning in our area


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

okieplumber01 said:


> we charge 75 hr for our achine and 10 dollars per extra cable we have to hook on up to 3 cables. we do on average 9 to 11 sewers a day. we cant keep up with sewer cleaning in our area


Huh:blink:


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## ap plumbing (Nov 9, 2010)

drtyhands said:


> I see now.


 pay by the job a percentage.. usually 20 to 30 % using ur van.. 35 to 45% using there own van.. thats how its done out here.. that I've heard


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## okieplumber01 (Jan 22, 2012)

tungsten plumb said:


> Huh:blink:


 
our machine has a 75 foot cable and we can hook up 3 cables we charge 75 hr with no minimum. we do 9 to 11 sewers a day with 3 trucks running full time doing drains


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## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

okieplumber01 said:


> our machine has a 75 foot cable and we can hook up 3 cables we charge 75 hr with no minimum. we do 9 to 11 sewers a day with 3 trucks running full time doing drains


Damn thats a lot of drains:thumbup:


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