# Need to replace this valve



## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

It leaves a 5" W X 8" Tall rectangle hole valve could not be repaired. Anyone know Meon has a updated version?


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Whoa....have you called Moen ?


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

It looks like a regular Moen hole in that back plate. Couldn't you just replace the valve and reuse that plate?


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Replace with moentrol and be a hero.... it probably is a simple valve behind the plate.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Can you separate the parts?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I have never seen a Moen valve that needed to be replaced. Moen will give you a new cartridge.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> I have never seen a Moen valve that needed to be replaced. Moen will give you a new cartridge.


Cartridge wont come out. Even used a Moen extractor. The guts of the cartridge got pulled out, but not the outer part.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

just go commando and take the plate off...

get yourself a small turbo torch tip and a spray bottle

and install a new body....


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Cartridge wont come out.* Even used a Moen extractor.* The guts of the cartridge got pulled out, but not the outer part.


This one?
Warm up the body to soften the o-rings....


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

I have not seen one like that before, not sure if it would be any help, but the one time that I came across a broken cartridge, I took a small toggle bolt and clipped it down smaller, so that it locked against a piece of cartridge casing. Started tightening in the screw until it hit the back of the body and ended up pushing it out. I doubt it was as old as that one though.


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

Ona puller will get it out.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

It's probably an older brass cartridge. If you pulled the stem out, you should have a hollow spot that you can gently hammer in an easy out and back it out.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Redwood said:


> This one? Warm up the body to soften the o-rings....


Not that one, but heard there was another type of extractor for Moen, but all the local supply houses didn't even have the common one. Do you know of a site where I can purchase that one Redwood?


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> It's probably an older brass cartridge. If you pulled the stem out, you should have a hollow spot that you can gently hammer in an easy out and back it out.


Tried that with no luck. It is the older brass one. May not have worked because it was only held in there with perforated strapping, so the valve was able to absorb the blows.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Moen discontinued that style. I worked on one years ago. Did you spray penetrating oil on it yet? That puller that Red has is made by Pasco, they are made for these situations.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Cartridge wont come out. Even used a Moen extractor. The guts of the cartridge got pulled out, but not the outer part.


Use a wooden dowel to get the cartridge shell out..


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## Steveking (May 16, 2014)

Use internal nipple extractor 1/2" has wings that will spread and grab the cartridge and rotate never had a failure using this tool


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> It leaves a 5" W X 8" Tall rectangle hole valve could not be repaired. Anyone know Meon has a updated version?


What happened with this hole? Did they get a new enclosure?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I hate to even attempt to get physical with one 
of those moens.... you dont know what kind of damage
might happen in the walls...

the last one I fought with, I actually cracked the tile 
on the wall and thought I was gonna pull the whole thing through...


I wimped out and just changed the faucet out with a delta


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Not that one, but heard there was another type of extractor for Moen, but all the local supply houses didn't even have the common one. Do you know of a site where I can purchase that one Redwood?


As 422 said, that puller is made by Pasco and I bought it at the supply house years ago...

It is the only Moen Puller I use...

I rarely use the end for cartridges that have had the core pull out, usually I use the other end....


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## SHR Plumber (Jul 28, 2013)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Cartridge wont come out. Even used a Moen extractor. The guts of the cartridge got pulled out, but not the outer part.


Pretty much common Moen Shower valve repair. Use the tool Redwood posted and you should be able to get it out. You need more tools for Moen repairs if you keep doing service work.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

I'll second the soft heat. Carefully heat the valve body and the rubber lets go. I also found that a 1/2" nipple extractor works well after the heat is applied. Needs to be the fluted type. Not the eccentric type at least in my experience. Tap the extractor to get it to bite, and start spinning after you have heated it. Once it breaks free and starts spinning, pull out while still turning. I like this method better than using the handle on that cartridge puller. That handle is like throwing all your chips in with a decent hand. A little too much pucker for me!!


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

You have to heat it up a bit and most people don't realize it but you have to twist that tool several turns to break those washers into prices and if the guts come out your half way there just get a easy out or extractor and pull it. If that fails it's brass right solder a piece of pipe or fitting in there and yank it. Every epipe job I've ever done ( a house a week for seven years) we are required to pull the cartridge ... I always get them out no matter what. One time I even use a tire iron


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

titaniumplumbr said:


> You have to heat it up a bit and most people don't realize it but you have to twist that tool several turns to break those washers into prices and if the guts come out your half way there just get a easy out or extractor and pull it. If that fails it's brass right solder a piece of pipe or fitting in there and yank it. Every epipe job I've ever done ( a house a week for seven years) we are required to pull the cartridge ... I always get them out no matter what. One time I even use a tire iron


Doesn't any one here ever use the wooden dowel to remove the cartidge shell???!!??


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Doesn't any one here ever use the wooden dowel to remove the cartidge shell???!!??


I've got a lag bolt I cut the head off and put it in my drill, sexy time


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Well we replaced the valve and re-used the plate yesterday. Collar hole had the be slightly bored for the new 1222. The real kicker is that I found the extractor Redwood suggested on the next call way out of town. Bought it, put the old valve in a bench vise, and it came out easily.


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

The trick is to only rotate the cartridge 90 degrees. Usually the rubber will shred and get into the ports in the valve if your not careful.


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

That is exactly correct


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Well we replaced the valve and re-used the plate yesterday. Collar hole had the be slightly bored for the new 1222. The real kicker is that I found the extractor Redwood suggested on the next call way out of town. Bought it, put the old valve in a bench vise, and it came out easily.


That's the reason I suggested the moentrol valve. The collar would have fit without modification.


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Cartridge wont come out. Even used a Moen extractor. The guts of the cartridge got pulled out, but not the outer part.


You can get it out... See Redwoods post above. If you need instructions on how to use it, I'm sure he will explain it.


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## Steveking (May 16, 2014)

Geez simple repair and 3 pages of nothing.this guy can't be a plumber.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Steveking said:


> Geez simple repair and 3 pages of nothing.this guy can't be a plumber.


Can't be a Plumber!? Been on this forum more than you buddy! Got more licenses than you buddy! Probably forgotten more about plumbing then you will ever know! Especially since if I come across something new I ask around to learn. Different valves a common in some places and rare in others! Example 90% Symmons valves here. Didn't see one in 6 years in Texas. Next time look around before you go insulting people dumba**!


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

dclarke said:


> That's the reason I suggested the moentrol valve. The collar would have fit without modification.


Yeah, Shop foreman got the valve & had a machine shop (next door) work the plate. Moentrol might have worked better, but at least the problem is solved. Thanks for the help.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Redwood said:


> As 422 said, that puller is made by Pasco and I bought it at the supply house years ago... It is the only Moen Puller I use... I rarely use the end for cartridges that have had the core pull out, usually I use the other end....


Thanks Redwood. That extractor will be staying in my tool tray.


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## Steveking (May 16, 2014)

Simple repair and posting does not mean anything .


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Steveking said:


> Geez simple repair and 3 pages of nothing.this guy can't be a plumber.












Doctors consult with other doctors. Two heads are better than one. Why can't a plumber ask other plumbing professionals a question? No one person knows it all.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

dclarke said:


> That's the reason I suggested the moentrol valve. The collar would have fit without modification.


Can't use those anymore here. All shower faucets have to be pressure balanced or thermostatically controlled. Moentrol is neither.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

RW Plumbing said:


> Can't use those anymore here. All shower faucets have to be pressure balanced or thermostatically controlled. Moentrol is neither.


Moentrol is pressure balanced


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

tim666 said:


> Moentrol is pressure balanced


Yea, MOENTROL is pressure balanced and always been that way, where the hell you get that false information RW? From Delta rep???


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

You put in a 3/8 wooden dowel rod that is about an 1 1/2" long and then follow it with a 5/8" tap the tap will hit the dowel rod and start pushing against it pulling the outer shell of the cartridge right out. 

This method has never failed me.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> Can't use those anymore here. All shower faucets have to be pressure balanced or thermostatically controlled. Moentrol is neither.


Your thinking the old style Moen "simple valve" moentrol uses the same small cartridge.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Steveking said:


> Geez simple repair and 3 pages of nothing.this guy can't be a plumber.


I worked in va beach and never saw anything but sayco and delta. Moved to cali and saw mostly moen, delta and PF but haven't seen any sayco. Locality has alot to deal with what you're familiar with.

kinda like how the only 2 plumbers talking about a wooden dowel are from chicago. I have no idea what they're referring to.


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## SHR Plumber (Jul 28, 2013)

RW Plumbing said:


> Can't use those anymore here. All shower faucets have to be pressure balanced or thermostatically controlled. Moentrol is neither.


Wrong. Moentrol is a pressure balanced hybrid faucet that uses the 1225 cartridge for separate volume and temperature control. The pressure balancing spool is in a separate cavity of the valve body. Convenient, reliable best of both worlds.


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