# Drain Cleaning recalls



## SewerRatz

You all know we guarantee our power roddings for 2 years. And yes we do get a couple recalls here and there but not as many as some of you think.

Well we got a call from a job we rodded the bath tub line 1 1/2 years ago. We explained to them when they called that its a labor free rodding so they need to pay the service call and rod charge. They where fine with this. When our plumber arrives to their home the problem was not the bath tub, it was the main line. So here is where things get goofy.

The wife is trying to tell us we rodded the main line a year and half ago. We explain to her the invoice just shows that we rodded their bath tub. So she calls the office and starts to argue with my father. After going round and round with her trying to explain to her that the main line is a different line that the bath tub. He tells her that she is not a plumber and apparently is not understanding him, so for her to have her husband call so he can explain to him what the difference is.

Well the husband calls saying my father was being discriminating against his wife and he can sue us for that, and just kept going off on him. So my dad eventually told the guy if he had more customers like him and his wife he would be in the nut house.

So I find out about this through an e-mail from the guy to my dad though. It said "Based on your sexually discriminatory remarks, very poor business attitude and terrible service you should watch for a letter from the Better Business Bureau. Perhaphs they won't be as "crazy" as you said my wife was."

I should of posted this in my I hate people thread..

Did I mention I hate people?


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## stillaround

Classic case of bad customer. BBB doesnt own the integrity college and if BBB doesnt understangd this scenario..fire them,, why isnt there a best business bureau anyway. Do they think that accusing someone of discrimination is a threat...tell them we do discriminate and profile...its part of our long range business plan...to identify and avoid all ignorant customers....dont forget to tell your friends...we dont want them either.


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## SewerRatz

Its just a classic case of a customer wanting something for nothing. They can read the invoice from a year ago it says plain as the day that we rodded the bath tub to restore normal drainage to the bath tub. No where on the invoice does it say we rodded their main line.

If I do get a letter from the BBB its no big deal, all we have to do is show them the original invoice and explain the only drain that has a guarantee on it is the bath tub drain we rodded a year and half ago. Then explain how the home owners where being unreasonable, and insisting we rod their main sewer under our guarantee.

We do get a few people that try to use our guarantee to get their other lines rodded labor free. Also another one is some will call a month before the end of the guarantee wanting us to rod the line labor free while there is no back up. Just have to explain to them the guarantee says if the drain backs up within 2 years we will rerod it once labor free. So if it is not backed up while we are there we have to charge the labor.

The only time we see this kind of behavior is when times are tough. A few years ago before things got real bad with the economy, I say we might of gotten one person trying to pull this. Now that times are real bad, I am seeing neighbors sharing invoices. I went on a job last week on 8th Ave, and when I looked the invoice over for the guarantee I noticed it said 6th Ave on the invoice and the names where different.


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## OldSchool

If you are not a memeber of the BBB then there is nothing to report to.... I dont think they track non members....If this is the case it may be time for you to quiet the BBB.


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## Redwood

SewerRatz said:


> You all know we guarantee our power roddings for 2 years.
> 
> We explained to them when they called that its a labor free rodding so they need to pay the service call and rod charge.


That seems like a strange guarantee that a callback would have an additional service charge and rodding fee...

I sense that a customer with a legitimate callback might get a little pissy over it...:whistling2:

We guarantee our residential drain cleaning 6 months which I would consider about right. We also have no charges associated with callbacks.

I think that 2 years is a long time to have your butt out there swinging in the wind when every customer is a potential idiot. I recall the days of having 3 long haired daughters living at home and I could barely make it 6 months without having to pull the waste & overflow apart to pull the clump of hair off the crossbar in the tub drain alone. There never was a problem past that the line was PVC and in great shape.

I'm just saying...


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## ChrisConnor

The BBB does list a report against non members, but you can send them a letter demanding they not keep and report files. Such things are for a court of law and not for some money grabbing group such as the BBB. 

Anything that grades you for pay is dubious at best.


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## UnclogNH

My feelings the BBB is useless now to many companies out there trying to make a buck off your good name and business standing. BBB, Angies list etc
People will try anything for a free job. Best you can do is have what is warranted clearly writing and understood on the invoice. Does not mean their still not going to try calling when the warrantee is up in a week saying it backed up once last week and I'm calling today for you to re snake the sewer today :whistling2:
Many people think if they argue enough you will give in.
If someone pulled out an invoice from a neighbor I would call the police for attempted theft.


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## CSP Drain

People switching invoices for drain cleaning? Clever... I haven't seen this yet so now I'll be looking. Most common one I see is post dating checks and then they bounce.


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## SewerRatz

Redwood, I posted our guarantee in the past. The way the guarantee is written is:

" The Above line is guaranteed one labor free rodding if the above line blocks within 2 years"

They had no complaints paying the service call and rod charge. They are to get the labor free. But the complaint is they wanted us to rod the main line under the guarantee, but we never rodded their main line just the bath tub.

As for the BBB, I have no issues with them. If you look at our record with them we have had a couple complaints, but the BBB found we made every attempt to satisfy the customer. So we still have our A+ rating.


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## Tommy plumber

*Two Year warranty*

Do you inspect the lines you guarantee with fiber optics before giving a waranty like that? What if there is a belly in the line or it's cracked? 2 Yrs. seems in my opinion too long. But I guess if it has been working for you and your dad for 50 yrs, then why change now?


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## user2090

Let me ask sewer, how old was the woman. I suspect that she is in the 50 year old range, probably closer to 60. Let me know, I have a theory about woman like that. If I'm wrong then I have to work on another theory.

With that being said, I don't think it is a good practice to talk down to a woman like that. Even if they don't understand what you are saying, it isn't going to go well.


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## Protech

I would simply show them the signed invoice that states that we cabled X tub line in X bathroom with X piece of equipment.

If they fail to grasp the situation from that point, I would simply tell them were to go.


If you like that one, you’ll love this one:
About 7 months ago I responded to a “no hot water” call. They had one of those piece of crap Titan tankless electric water heaters. After taking the cover off I found that both elements were burned out, a wire was burned, and the control board was cooked. I tried to sell them a Stiebel-Eltron Tempra or a conventional tank but they didn’t want to spend any more money. They wanted a direct replacement for the piece of crap Titan unit. I gave them a 1 year warranty on labor only and the unit itself was to be warranted by the manufacturer. 

Well sure enough, they just called me back saying they have no hot water (gee what a surprise). Just to be nice, I tried to diagnose it over the phone. I then called the factory for them and passed on there info to the factory’s warranty department. The home owner calls me back b****ing to me that they need me to come out there and remove the old unit so they can mail it to the factory and then they will need me to come back out there on a separate visit to install the replacement unit. I told them that would be fine but they would be paying the labor to do so. They start yelling about their warranty and I remind them of what the invoice actually says and that I tried to talk them out of getting that brand of unit. Might as well be talking to a 2x4. I got the generic “I’m calling the BBB and hang up response”.

So let met get this straight. I’m supposed to come out twice for free on something that I tried to tell you was a POS?



SewerRatz said:


> You all know we guarantee our power roddings for 2 years. And yes we do get a couple recalls here and there but not as many as some of you think.
> 
> Well we got a call from a job we rodded the bath tub line 1 1/2 years ago. We explained to them when they called that its a labor free rodding so they need to pay the service call and rod charge. They where fine with this. When our plumber arrives to their home the problem was not the bath tub, it was the main line. So here is where things get goofy.
> 
> The wife is trying to tell us we rodded the main line a year and half ago. We explain to her the invoice just shows that we rodded their bath tub. So she calls the office and starts to argue with my father. After going round and round with her trying to explain to her that the main line is a different line that the bath tub. He tells her that she is not a plumber and apparently is not understanding him, so for her to have her husband call so he can explain to him what the difference is.
> 
> Well the husband calls saying my father was being discriminating against his wife and he can sue us for that, and just kept going off on him. So my dad eventually told the guy if he had more customers like him and his wife he would be in the nut house.
> 
> So I find out about this through an e-mail from the guy to my dad though. It said "Based on your sexually discriminatory remarks, very poor business attitude and terrible service you should watch for a letter from the Better Business Bureau. Perhaphs they won't be as "crazy" as you said my wife was."
> 
> I should of posted this in my I hate people thread..
> 
> Did I mention I hate people?


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## SewerRatz

Indie said:


> Let me ask sewer, how old was the woman. I suspect that she is in the 50 year old range, probably closer to 60. Let me know, I have a theory about woman like that. If I'm wrong then I have to work on another theory.
> 
> With that being said, I don't think it is a good practice to talk down to a woman like that. Even if they don't understand what you are saying, it isn't going to go well.


 Not sure how old the woman was I was not on the job. I will ask my brother. My father is 63.. I think.. maybe a year older. But anyways he is the old fashioned type with his 50's style hair and attitude.


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## Cuda

" But you did my tub now it's backed up look..... what is this main line you keep talking about don't try to fool me with your double talk."


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## SewerRatz

Cuda said:


> " But you did my tub now it's backed up look..... what is this main line you keep talking about don't try to fool me with your double talk."


Or you rod the main line and a few weeks later the kitchen sink plugs, they say but you rodded my main drain, there should be no reason my sink is plugged, you must of done it.


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## RealLivePlumber

I had this wacko a few weeks ago. Cleared a stopped tub drain. She then wants prices for this, quotes for that. How much to do this, on and on. 

I know she is not going to spend it. I think she ain't got it. 

So, she moans about the bill a little, but coughs it up. 

2 days later, she calls. Lav drain is stopped. YOU DID IT! ( in those words)
IT WAS FINE UNTILL YOU CLEARED THE TUB DRAIN. I don't wanna pay. 

I rolled over there, plunged the unvented s trap lav drain, and told her to never call me again. 

But, but.what about the quotes I wanted?..........

BUH BYE!:no:

I hate 'em too.:thumbsup:


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## Richard Hilliard

*Drain cleaning recalls*

I like your warranty. We do a one year one time free warranty.The warranty is to get us to come back out and into the home.That is what a warranty is created for and allows any organzation a chance to return to the home and earn the right to do business with the client.

Documentation is a fantastic thing.The people who write the BBB generally discover they do not have a leg to stand on and are being out of control.We have never experienced the BBB to be less than fair and just.


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## TheMaster

Richard Hilliar said:


> .The warranty is to get us to come back out and into the home.That is what a warranty is created for and allows any organzation a chance to return to the home and earn the right to do business with the client.


So you think a warranty was created to get back into the customers house.  Yeah it is...when you do crappy work:laughing: Gimmie a fliipin break:laughing:


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## Richard Hilliard

When you do not have a warranty you are not getting back into the home if something should go wrong with a product or your workmanship, or you are one hit business with clients, period. I am surprised a seasoned businessman like yourself does not realize this as fact.


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## TheMaster

Richard Hilliar said:


> When you do not have a warranty you are not getting back into the home if something should go wrong with a product or your workmanship, or you are one hit business with clients, period. I am surprised a seasoned businessman like yourself does not realize this as fact.


The reason I give a warranty is to give the customer piece of mind that they are not throwing good money away for bad work or a defective product that they pay me good money to install. Not to get back into the home if somthing goes wrong. Sure I'm seasoned....alot of SALT:thumbsup:


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## SewerRatz

Giving a warranty gets people to call you in the first place, and they will call you back to do more trouble shooting if the problem happens again. As I have said in many other posts, we hardly get any recalls cause we do our job right the first time. Thats why we have been giving 2 year warranties with our power roddings.

I love to eaves drop at supply houses since I do not wear a shirt with the company name on it or have a lettered up truck. There are times I hear other contractors bad mouthing our company saying we are ruining the business by offering a 2 year warranty on our power roddings. These guys that do this bad mouthing are just short sighted. I tell them that after I introduce myself as Ron from A-Archer Sewer and Plumbing. You guys can knock it all you want, we been offering it for 50 years now and we are happy with it. I was just venting about this customer cause I have been running into a handful of them that want something for nothing.

Speaking something for nothing. I had a guy call me today asked me how much to test and certify his RPZ, I told him for a pass/fail test with paper work our price is *** amount. He said great come on out. I get there I go to do the test and check #2 zeros out and starts to put the RPZ in dump mode. I tell him OK the RPZ is failing he owes me for the test, and it will cost him *** amount to repair the unit with a rebuild kit and the repair will include a retest. Guy started to tell me I quoted him the test amount which should include repairing it to get it to pass. Of course he eventually saw it my way. He decided he will get a second opinion I got my testing fee marked off FAILED on my report and turned it in to the city.


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## Titan Plumbing

Ron, I wonder which number plumber you were at that guy's place.....


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## Richard Hilliard

The master ,everything you do and any other businessman is to get in front of clients. Phone number,warranty,advertsing you name it, it is to get in front of the client and into thier home or business. You can claim otherwise however you know this to be true.


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## TheMaster

Richard Hilliar said:


> The master ,everything you do and any other businessman is to get in front of clients. Phone number,warranty,advertsing you name it, it is to get in front of the client and into thier home or business. You can claim otherwise however you know this to be true.


Thats just not true. Thats sarasota PSI talk. The sarasota psi virus started in my mailbox about a year ago and now its moved to my computer:jester:


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## Tommy plumber

Agreed. Richard Hiiliard is correct. Every business is in business to make a profit. You may like what you do (as I do), you may like helping people out of a pickle (as I do), but bottom line is you are there to make money. :yes:


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## TheMaster

Tommy plumber said:


> Agreed. Richard Hiiliard is correct. Every business is in business to make a profit. You may like what you do (as I do), you may like helping people out of a pickle (as I do), but bottom line is you are there to make money. :yes:


Yeah but is the reason why you give a warranty is to get back into the persons home at a later date?
I dont......I give a warranty to make the customer feel better about spending their money with me and if my repair fails...I will not charge them to correct my mistakes or product failures.

If I depended on a warranty to get me back into a house I would be out of business by now...I depend on the customer never having to use a warranty...thats what get me back into the house...GREAT WORK...NOT PROMISES.:thumbsup:

If you focus on money alone you will most likely fail at business.......if you focus on BUSINESS the money will take care of itself. Mine does.


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## SewerRatz

TheMaster said:


> Yeah but is the reason why you give a warranty is to get back into the persons home at a later date?
> I dont......I give a warranty to make the customer feel better about spending their money with me and if my repair fails...I will not charge them to correct my mistakes or product failures.
> 
> If I depended on a warranty to get me back into a house I would be out of business by now...I depend on the customer never having to use a warranty...thats what get me back into the house...GREAT WORK...NOT PROMISES.:thumbsup:
> 
> If you focus on money alone you will most likely fail at business.......if you focus on BUSINESS the money will take care of itself. Mine does.


Its because we offer the type of warranty that gets us back in the home. 99 times out of a 100 people will call us back just as their 2 year warranty ends for preventive maintenance, so they can get the warranty extended for another 2 years. As a PM job they pay labor , service call, and the rod charge, and since it is a PM job the line is not blocked so the job goes quicker than it would if there was a full on blockage so they save a few dollars in labor. So everyone is happy in the end, that is what makes for good business.


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## TheMaster

SewerRatz said:


> Its because we offer the type of warranty that gets us back in the home. 99 times out of a 100 people will call us back just as their 2 year warranty ends for preventive maintenance, so they can get the warranty extended for another 2 years. As a PM job they pay labor , service call, and the rod charge, and since it is a PM job the line is not blocked so the job goes quicker than it would if there was a full on blockage so they save a few dollars in labor. So everyone is happy in the end, that is what makes for good business.


Sounds like your in the warranty business. How is it? With 99% of people calling you back I bet you cant take on new customers.


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## SewerRatz

TheMaster said:


> Sounds like your in the warranty business. How is it? With 99% of people calling you back I bet you cant take on new customers.


 So I take it you are not into repeat business? I know that as long as people keep their drains cleared with preventive maintenance they are happy since they no longer get the surprise back ups. They also like the piece of mind the warranty gives them that it will not cost them full price (no labor charge) to get the line rerodded if it backs up again in the 2 year period of time.

What I do is called customer retention. I am not one of those shops that is happy with doing work for someone one time, like them shops that charge $500+ to reset a water closet. I can tell you how many times I hear people tell me they called one of those companies once, and will never call them again due to the price being way to much for type of job and lack of quality in their workmanship.

I do agree to retain a customer its not just about the warranty, its about the plumbers professionalism, quality of work, and a fair price. But it takes all those factors to help keep the customer happy and calling you back for PM work, or any other plumbing issues they may have. What you do works for you what we do works for us. Do not forget that our company started out as a drain cleaning company. We did not do any plumbing work till I got my license. Back in the day we subcontracted out plumbing calls to a local plumbing company and they sub'ed us out for all their drain cleaning calls. We still are subcontracted to do drain cleaning for a handful of plumbing companies.


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## TheMaster

SewerRatz said:


> So I take it you are not into repeat business? I know that as long as people keep their drains cleared with preventive maintenance they are happy since they no longer get the surprise back ups. They also like the piece of mind the warranty gives them that it will not cost them full price (no labor charge) to get the line rerodded if it backs up again in the 2 year period of time.
> 
> What I do is called customer retention. I am not one of those shops that is happy with doing work for someone one time, like them shops that charge $500+ to reset a water closet. I can tell you how many times I hear people tell me they called one of those companies once, and will never call them again due to the price being way to much for type of job and lack of quality in their workmanship.
> 
> I do agree to retain a customer its not just about the warranty, its about the plumbers professionalism, quality of work, and a fair price. But it takes all those factors to help keep the customer happy and calling you back for PM work, or any other plumbing issues they may have. What you do works for you what we do works for us. Do not forget that our company started out as a drain cleaning company. We did not do any plumbing work till I got my license. Back in the day we subcontracted out plumbing calls to a local plumbing company and they sub'ed us out for all their drain cleaning calls. We still are subcontracted to do drain cleaning for a handful of plumbing companies.


Well you said sometime...maybe on this thread you say that your still charging the same as you did 30 years ago. Do you think that plays a part of retaining customers? If your retaining all those customers then why all the advertising? How many employees?

Also you dont pay me when I come back for a WARRANTY CALL....no trip charge,no labor....no rodding charge(wtf is that) Nothing.....I have a real warranty. Tricks are for kids and the Roto rooter types companies. I notice you have ALOT of problems that you post about customers and just conflicts with your business.....from the yellow pages to customers. Maybe reconsider your business practices.


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## pauliplumber

I have no problem whatsoever with any way anyone want to run _their _business. 

Warranties? Great if it works for you:thumbsup:

Free estimates? Great if it works for you:thumbsup:

Work dirt cheap? Fine with me. You will suck up all of the cheap customers I don't want:thumbsup:

The minute you start worrying what other _plumbers_ think, you mine as well hang it up.

All that matters is what the majority your customers think, what you learn from your own mistakes(not what the d-bags that hang out at the plumbing supply say, most of the time their just jealous of your success) and what's in your bank account.


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## SewerRatz

My point is what my father charged 30 some years ago flat rat is around the same as our T&M today. What does that show it not us we tried to raise our rates, people started to scream that The Master is charging half of what we wanted to charge.

Yes I vent here from time to time. The yellow pages, we gave up on them in 2004-2005 and canceled all our ads with them. THEY printed the wrong phone number in the ad. We been running the same ad in their book for over 40 years and one year some how they magically screw up the phone number. So to make things good with us they gave us free ads in the next year books. Was the last we heard from them, then in 2009-2010 they serve us with paper saying we owe them for 2005 and 2006. We lost the court case cause my father was stubborn and did not want to pay a corporate lawyer.

I complained about price shoppers and some out and out bad customers. The reason for this post was to show how people that had one job done (bath tub rodded) wanted the warranty to be done on a different job (main line rodding which we never done). Thats all this post was about. But I guess you "The Master" is the only one that can post the way he does business, and other such stuff. So I will do you a favor "The Master" I will stop posting here. Just so you do not have to see how I do things.


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## Richard Hilliard

*drain cleaning recalls*

Themaster you have no idea on what you speak. This has nothing to do with PSI, it is many generations of business owners. You may not think a warranty gets you back into the clients home, stop giving a warranty and then let me know how many repeat clients you have. Peace of mind left in the 50's and means very little to the vast majority of clients. What is peace of mind? Finally that plumber got here and cleaned that line is what peace of mind is.He did it correctly, nope that is an expectation that you clear the line and get it open.You are professional is also an expectation and is not peace of mind. License, insured, and bonded is not peace of mind it is an expectation with most clients.Ah The master was here and now I can sleep peacefully and he did his work correctly.Get real.


There are many reasons for giving a warranty. What good is a warranty when the client does not care about the warranty? Gees quit playing the fool and open your mind to the many reasons people use a warranty. I am not perfect however I very rarely have to come back to my work. I am only human and wil make mistakes.oWhether or not the warranty is used I am back to 80% of my clients. They know I stand behind my work.It is a way to get back int the clients home.The rapport,relationship building is to allow me back into the clients home.Our advertising is to get me into the clients home,phone book whatever is done with any comany is designed to get you face time with clients.I cannot believe that you do not understand this concept.

I like sewer's warranty it is clever and is going above and beyond industry standards and sets them apart from the competition. Did you know that a warranty could do that for your company?I know it works, I know who to call, and I know it is safe with that kind of warranty.Kudos to Seweratz


It seems to me you spend way to much time on the small percentage or exceptions instead of spending your time and effort with the high percentage.


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## TheMaster

Richard Hilliar said:


> Themaster you have no idea on what you speak. This has nothing to do with PSI, it is many generations of business owners. You may not think a warranty gets you back into the clients home, stop giving a warranty and then let me know how many repeat clients you have. Peace of mind left in the 50's and means very little to the vast majority of clients. What is peace of mind? Finally that plumber got here and cleaned that line is what peace of mind is.He did it correctly, nope that is an expectation that you clear the line and get it open.You are professional is also an expectation and is not peace of mind. License, insured, and bonded is not peace of mind it is an expectation with most clients.Ah The master was here and now I can sleep peacefully and he did his work correctly.Get real.
> 
> 
> There are many reasons for giving a warranty. What good is a warranty when the client does not care about the warranty? Gees quit playing the fool and open your mind to the many reasons people use a warranty. I am not perfect however I very rarely have to come back to my work. I am only human and wil make mistakes.oWhether or not the warranty is used I am back to 80% of my clients. They know I stand behind my work.It is a way to get back int the clients home.The rapport,relationship building is to allow me back into the clients home.Our advertising is to get me into the clients home,phone book whatever is done with any comany is designed to get you face time with clients.I cannot believe that you do not understand this concept.
> 
> I like sewer's warranty it is clever and is going above and beyond industry standards and sets them apart from the competition. Did you know that a warranty could do that for your company?I know it works, I know who to call, and I know it is safe with that kind of warranty.Kudos to Seweratz
> 
> 
> It seems to me you spend way to much time on the small percentage or exceptions instead of spending your time and effort with the high percentage.


Sure it has somthing to do with PSI. You work the percentages. Thats what PSI pushes. Advertise heavy and you get a large call volume. Out of that call volume you pick the suckers out.

Sure a warranty can set you apart but who says thats a good thing especially when the "warranty" service still costs the customer money.

I usually dont even get asked about a warranty. I have even had customers try to pay me and I told them "thats under warranty..so its no charge today" I do that because its the right thing to do. I would do the same thing if the customer said she was never calling me back.

You seem pretty computer literate...could you post some pics of your work please?


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## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> *Sure it has somthing to do with PSI. You work the percentages. Thats what PSI pushes. Advertise heavy and you get a large call volume. Out of that call volume you pick the suckers out.*


That is some funny chit there /\ 

Since you know more about PSI than the organization itself and its active members can I just start sending you money for your all knowing wisdom? 

Sings to the tune: "I say potato, you say putahto, you say tomato, I say tumahto..." I say warranties are good for THE CUSTOMER, you say bloop bloop bloop...

A certain percent of people are out to screw you no matter what you do. It is just as much a law of life as doo doo rolls downhill. Whatcha gonna do about it?


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## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> That is some funny chit there /\
> 
> Since you know more about PSI than the organization itself and its active members can I just start sending you money for your all knowing wisdom?
> 
> Sings to the tune: "I say potato, you say putahto, you say tomato, I say tumahto..." I say warranties are good for THE CUSTOMER, you say bloop bloop bloop...
> 
> A certain percent of people are out to screw you no matter what you do. It is just as much a law of life as doo doo rolls downhill. Whatcha gonna do about it?


Sure I will take your money just the same as they will and I give better long term advice.

A certain amount of people are out to screw you is right.....Dont you feel it yet or are you use to the screwing by now? You ask what I plan to do about it? I for sure wont bend over and take it like your doing from PSI and your customers that bite your hook:whistling2:.

Sure a warranty is good for the customer UNLESS they feel like when they go to use the warranty.......its nothing more than a ploy to GET BACK INTO THE HOME TO GET SOME MORE MONEY OUT OF THEM.

I prefer to run a business without the fine print and offer a real warranty.:thumbsup:


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## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> Sure I will take your money just the same as they will and I give better long term advice.
> 
> A certain amount of people are out to screw you is right.....Dont you feel it yet or are you use to the screwing by now? You ask what I plan to do about it? I for sure wont bend over and take it like your doing from PSI and your customers that bite your hook:whistling2:.
> 
> Sure a warranty is good for the customer UNLESS they feel like when they go to use the warranty.......its nothing more than a ploy to GET BACK INTO THE HOME TO GET SOME MORE MONEY OUT OF THEM.
> 
> I prefer to run a business without the fine print and offer a real warranty.:thumbsup:


For the record "I concede that you know everything about running a plumbing business, no one can do it better, and nobody can be right but you". :notworthyExcept the ones making millions more than you of course). 

So, your all-knowingness, could you please enlighten a mere mortal as to how you arrived at the conclusion that you know better how to run a company than an organization that has created many multi-million dollar a year plumbing companies, just by looking at a postcard you got in the mail from them. Show me how and not just spout one of your predictable bigot replies and I will start paying you. :yes:


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> For the record "I concede that you know everything about running a plumbing business, no one can do it better, and nobody can be right but you". :notworthyExcept the ones making millions more than you of course).
> 
> So, your all-knowingness, could you please enlighten a mere mortal as to how you arrived at the conclusion that you know better how to run a company than an organization that has created many multi-million dollar a year plumbing companies, justby looking at a postcard you got in the mail from them. Show me how and not just spout one of your predictable bigot replies and I will start paying you. :yes:


I only want a one man show and I make it work to my benefit. If I wanted a bigger company I could make that happen. I have the money to make it happen but it would require more of an investment of my TIME. Right now I value my time more than the extra money...Why you ask? Because I have plenty of money:thumbsup: 

Please explain and direct me to the bigot post 

I think your upset because your heavily invested in some organization and your desperate to make it work and any negative comments about it eats your core. Goodluck to you and with your attitude you will need alot of luck because you lack communication skills.


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> I only want a one man show and I make it work to my benefit. If I wanted a bigger company I could make that happen. I have the money to make it happen but it would require more of an investment of my TIME. Right now I value my time more than the extra money...Why you ask? Because I have plenty of money:thumbsup:
> 
> Please explain and direct me to the bigot post
> I *think* your upset because your heavily invested in some organization and your desperate to make it work and any negative comments about it eats your core. Goodluck to you and with your attitude you will need alot of luck because you lack communication skills.


 I didn't ask why you don't want to go past a one man show.There is nothing wrong with that.

I could care less what you say negative or otherwise about me, PSI, yourself, or anyone else. It works excellent for me and life is great. I rattled your cage and got the predictable response, so no news there. I am just curious as to how you arrived at your conclusions as stated above. 

The word preceding your statement as highlighted in red is what makes it and most of your statements bigoted. I ASKED how you drew your opinions as opposed to ASSuming as you did about me. So could you please enlighten me? Still waiting.


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> I didn't ask why you don't want to go past a one man show.There is nothing wrong with that.
> 
> I could care less what you say negative or otherwise about me, PSI, yourself, or anyone else. It works excellent for me and life is great. I rattled your cage and got the predictable response, so no news there. I am just curious as to how you arrived at your conclusions as stated above.
> 
> The word preceding your statement as highlighted in red is what makes it and most of your statements bigoted. I ASKED how you drew your opinions as opposed to ASSuming as you did about me. So could you please enlighten me? Still waiting.


I dont understand how you think I'm rattled. I simply just think that PSI is a rip off. You can be a member if you want. But I dont see how me not liking PSI makes my statements bigoted. So if I dont go along with PSI I'm a bigot:blink: What flavor koolaid are ya sippin?

Ask me a question and I will try to answer.:thumbsup:


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> I dont understand how you think I'm rattled. I simply just think that PSI is a rip off. You can be a member if you want. But I dont see how me not liking PSI makes my statements bigoted. So if I dont go along with PSI I'm a bigot:blink: What flavor koolaid are ya sippin?
> 
> Ask me a question and I will try to answer.:thumbsup:


Try again. My question has been clear and consistent in the past 3 posts. I simply am curious as to how you arrived at your conclusions. No more, no less. 

You not liking PSI is not what I said either.Try this again:


> I *think* your upset because your heavily invested in some organization and your desperate to make it work and any negative comments about it eats your core. Goodluck to you and with your attitude you will need alot of luck because you lack communication skills.


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> Try again. My question has been clear and consistent in the past 3 posts. I simply am curious as to how you arrived at your conclusions. No more, no less.
> 
> You not liking PSI is not what I said either.Try this again:


Well all I see is you pointing to "think" in red. What I'm not allowed to have an opinion? I dont get ya bro....are ya ok? I bet for every million dollar company PSI has produced....3 went bankrupt or quit PSI. Thats a guess....its not a bigoted comment:laughing: Anymore questions?

Do they have a course that you could buy to help with communication skills?


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> Well all I see is you pointing to "think" in red. What I'm not allowed to have an opinion? I dont get ya bro....are ya ok? I bet for every million dollar company PSI has produced....3 went bankrupt or quit PSI. Thats a guess....its not a bigoted comment:laughing: Anymore questions?


Well, gee I dunno... I Guess you can have an opinion. It's alright by me. 

I ASSumed you didn't get to your conclusion by facts. Just opinions. And was curious if you had had some real life experiences to go off of or if you was just guessing. (BTW I do hope that is not prohibited. As long as thats OK I guess you can have your opinions. LOL) Thanks for clarifying. 

"No further questions at this time your honor."


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> Well, gee I dunno... I Guess you can have an opinion. It's alright by me.
> 
> I ASSumed you didn't get to your conclusion by facts. Just opinions. And was curious if you had had some real life experiences to go off of or if you was just guessing. (BTW I do hope that is not prohibited. As long as thats OK I guess you can have your opinions. LOL) Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> "No further questions at this time your honor."


Are you high? Thats a serious question too.


----------



## Titan Plumbing

This is an interesting back and forth to say the least.......


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> Are you high? Thats a serious question too.


That's a fair concern, and I'm glad you asked. You know whats exciting about that? Nothing. Dont get down like that. Just bored as I sit here finishing my online continuing ed. You are probably the only person on here that will entertain such meaningless banter. No offense. But I'm serious too.


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> That's a fair concern, and I'm glad you asked. You know whats exciting about that? Nothing. Dont get down like that. Just bored as I sit here finishing my online continuing ed. You are probably the only person on here that will entertain such meaningless banter. No offense. But I'm serious too.


Please explain how my coments are bigoted...you made the claim so how about it? How am I intolerant? Just because I dont drink from the PSI pitcher doesn't make me a bigot. Are you using words that you dont know the meaning of? I hope the continuing ed class is in communication skills.


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> Please explain how my coments are bigoted...you made the claim so how about it? How am I intolerant? Just because I dont drink from the PSI pitcher doesn't make me a bigot. Are you using words that you dont know the meaning of? I hope the continuing ed class is in communication skills.


Here's a few definitions: 
Bigot; a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own; A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; bigoted - blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward others; "a bigoted person"; "an outrageously bigoted point of view"; bigoted - Being a bigot; biased; strongly prejudiced; forming opinions without just cause. 

Since you asked, I would say blindly and obstinately attached to some opinion, and forming opinions without just cause caused me to use the word bigot in this case. You are free to have whatever opinion you like and can sh*t in the PSI pitcher for all I care. I was just calling you on the accuracy and inquiring as to what led you to it.


----------



## TheMaster

Everyone knows that Richard is very much into PSI. Almost every post he has made is about the "business" part of the plumbing business and he's located in sarasota the PSI mecca I believe.

Mr. Richard made a comment about a warranty is given by a company to get back into their home at a later date.

We have a fundamental difference in opinion on why a warranty is given.

I warranty my work because the customer paid for the work to be done correctly the first time and should not have to pay again if my work or products fail. Thats why I warranty my work.......not so I can get back into the home.

So how do you feel about that Ckoch?


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> Everyone knows that Richard is very much into PSI. Almost every post he has made is about the "business" part of the plumbing business and he's located in sarasota the PSI mecca I believe.
> 
> Mr. Richard made a comment about a warranty is given by a company to get back into their home at a later date.
> 
> We have a fundamental difference in opinion on why a warranty is given.
> 
> I warranty my work because the customer paid for the work to be done correctly the first time and should not have to pay again if my work or products fail. Thats why I warranty my work.......not so I can get back into the home.
> 
> So how do you feel about that Ckoch?


I think they are no longer with PSI but I may be wrong on that. 

I have been taught and agree 100% that a warranty is first and foremost for the customers benefit. A good warranty backed by a good company gives peace of mind. In a perfect world we would not need a warranty, but we all know that even the best people make mistakes, and the best manufacturers fail occasionally. If a product or repair should fail and the customer calls it into play, hopefully they will see a prompt, professional response and continue to use us in the future. If it was a bad call on the customers behalf, and you responded promptly, hopefully they will let us handle whatever the issue is, but that would be an unintentional side effect, not the sole purpose.

PS: Just my opinion.


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> Here's a few definitions:
> Bigot; a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own; A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; bigoted - blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward others; "a bigoted person"; "an outrageously bigoted point of view"; bigoted - Being a bigot; biased; strongly prejudiced; forming opinions without just cause.
> 
> Since you asked, I would say blindly and obstinately attached to some opinion, and forming opinions without just cause caused me to use the word bigot in this case. You are free to have whatever opinion you like and can sh*t in the PSI pitcher for all I care. I was just calling you on the accuracy and inquiring as to what led you to it.


No No not blindly.......you PSI guys talk that crap up all the time....it just doesn't go over well with companies who are already have a good business with plenty of existing customers. You know I do read the cards they send in the mail.....so it is with just cause. 

Here is a link to there line of total CRAP They act like you cant make it without PSI and then they want you to JOIN BUYMAX so you can get good deals on material.....yeah ok right. Yeah they are serving koolaid.

http://www.plumberssuccess.com/about.aspx

Do you sell amway too?


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> No No not blindly.......you PSI guys talk that crap up all the time....it just doesn't go over well with companies who are already have a good business with plenty of existing customers. You know I do read the cards they send in the mail.....so it is with just cause.
> 
> Here is a link to there line of total CRAP They act like you cant make it without PSI and then they want you to JOIN BUYMAX so you can get good deals on material.....yeah ok right. Yeah they are serving koolaid.
> 
> http://www.plumberssuccess.com/about.aspx
> 
> Do you sell amway too?


 _"Whether you need the answers to make payroll or open your next location, Plumbers' Success International can help you achieve your goal.__"_

Sounds like a bunch of crap to me too! :laughing:

We all know about your treasure trove of Delta buyouts and such that you so often tell us about. But in the real world that model is not sustainable for everyone. Buymax does have some advantages. I had almost 3k in rebates from '09 that I bought a new flat screen, i phone, a bunch of milwaukee tools, and a bunch of fishing gear from bass pro shop.That on money that I am spending anyway. So say what you will, but I love that koolaid!

But, if you are already doing as well as you want to on your own, and are content with that, I certainly understand why you wouldn't have an interest. Doesn't make me wrong for doing it though is all I'm sayin.


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> _"Whether you need the answers to make payroll or open your next location, Plumbers' Success International can help you achieve your goal.__"_
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of crap to me too! :laughing:
> 
> We all know about your treasure trove of Delta buyouts and such that you so often tell us about. But in the real world that model is not sustainable for everyone. Buymax does have some advantages. I had almost 3k in rebates from '09 that I bought a new flat screen, i phone, a bunch of milwaukee tools, and a bunch of fishing gear from bass pro shop.That on money that I am spending anyway. So say what you will, but I love that koolaid!
> 
> But, if you are already doing as well as you want to on your own, and are content with that, I certainly understand why you wouldn't have an interest. Doesn't make me wrong for doing it though is all I'm sayin.


And being part of the Buymax family only costs 948.00 a year:whistling2: Thats a hefty membership fee to be able to purchase plumbing parts......and in this economy suppliers are chompin at the bit to sell.......so why are they so arrogant to think I need their help and enough to pay them 79.00 a month?


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> And being part of the Buymax family only costs 948.00 a year:whistling2: Thats a hefty membership fee to be able to purchase plumbing parts......and in this economy suppliers are chompin at the bit to sell.......so why are they so arrogant to think I need their help and enough to pay them 79.00 a month?


Cant help you with that one. Its free with my membership so I dunno. Im sure if you were doing a large material volume it would yield a nice return though. Look at my scenario above. That was 3k on 948 had I paid for it. It does include a lot more than just material vendors and looks like it does have a guarantee that you will save more than your investment or your money back. What a fitting topic for this thread. Warranty. Who woulda thunk?


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> Cant help you with that one. Its free with my membership so I dunno. Im sure if you were doing a large material volume it would yield a nice return though. Look at my scenario above. That was 3k on 948 had I paid for it. It does include a lot more than just material vendors and looks like it does have a guarantee that you will save more than your investment or your money back. What a fitting topic for this thread. Warranty. Who woulda thunk?


How much does your PSI memebership cost? I bet I can buy just as cheap or cheaper than buymax.


----------



## ckoch407

TheMaster said:


> How much does your PSI memebership cost? I bet I can buy just as cheap or cheaper than buymax.


But can you get cash rebates for every dollar you spend?


----------



## TheMaster

ckoch407 said:


> But can you get cash rebates for every dollar you spend?


 Sure plus free shipping.


----------



## Richard Hilliard

*drain cleaning recalls*

Themaster if you really mattered to me or if you were in my area I would be happy to send you pictures and give you any number of clients to speak to about my work, my process. I have given clients phone numbers to other clients that were not 100% satisfied along with more than satisfied clients.These clients inform other clients that they had fun with me and my process even though they did not use me due to price.

“Sure it has somthing to do with PSI. You work the percentages. That what PSI pushes. Advertise heavy and you get a large call volume. Out of that call volume you pick the suckers out”.

 I find it hard to believe the baseless statements made. It has nothing to do with PSI. All businesses use percentages, you have areas you do not work in and this is due to not having much work in those areas, not worth your time and expenses to go there and that is a percentage. It shows where budget and changes are necessary within the organization. Sure I work percentages I have always used percentages to help make business decisions. When I sold my business I used percentages to inform to sell, grow or scale back.I am sorry not everyone works out of a shoebox and off the couch and out of their garage.

You seem to want to lump a large group of people into a circle. We do not pick out suckers and work on volume. I would venture to say we take more clients that you would spit out as useless to you and turn them into satisfied clients. By the way we do not belong to any sales organizations. I did flat rate in Ohio during the 80’s and here in Florida we went to flat rate in the late 90’s.

I really do not care that you do not get asked about your warranty you should be informing the client of your warranty. Your client should not have to ask about your warranty. I think you said it was peace of mind for your clients. Yes it should make a difference and separate you from your competition. The warranty is to cover defective products and human error and should be less than 2-3%. If product failure is 10% than stop using that product and is necessary to discover what type product does not work in your area. We discovered korky quiet fill ballcocks fail frequently in our area, we do not install these type ballcocks. Without tracking our products and using percentages we would not have noticed this issue.

Now to PSI, Nexstar, Phcc’s qvc ,franchises or any other organization that can help company owners who are willing to use them more power to each of them. They realize that there is more to running a business then plumbing. Some of the owners already know what these organizations do and implement it into their business and that is fantastic. My feelings on these type organizations, if a company owner is willing to invest and use what they prescribe they can have a very successful organization and profitable. Some do, some do not and those who do not implement the strategies have a rough go with the system. I will not condemn any businessman joining these organizations. They want help and these groups give help. Where else could these businessmen go to receive help and the help they need? 

PSI or any other organization have nothing to do with this conversation and is being used to change the direction of this thread.


----------



## Kevan

It might clarify things a little to realize that a warranty and an insurance policy are not the same thing, but they often go by the same name. "Warranty" and "guarantee" are two forms of the same word and they mean, as TM stated, that the customer got what he paid for.

A road hazard warranty on a tire isn't actually a warranty; it's an insurance policy. The shop *isn't* saying "this tire won't tear up if you run over some sharp scrap iron on the Interstate and, if it does, that means you didn't get what you paid for when you bought the tire and we'll make it good." That would be a warranty. Instead, they're selling insurance and their primary purpose is to get you back into the shop. "If you have bad luck, we'll help you with it so long as you bring the problem to us for repair."

I worked for a company once that gave a thirty-day "warranty" on clearing a toilet! A fifteen-year-old boy could have stopped up that toilet again before my brake lights glowed at the stop sign! Obviously the warranty had almost nothing to do with the quality of the work performed. It was insurance and it was almost never a problem for us.

There's nothing wrong with insurance _per se_, so long as the customer is fully informed.


----------



## Titan Plumbing

Richard Hilliar said:


> Themaster if you really mattered to me or if you were in my area I would be happy to send you pictures and give you any number of clients to speak to about my work, my process. I have given clients phone numbers to other clients that were not 100% satisfied along with more than satisfied clients.These clients inform other clients that they had fun with me and my process even though they did not use me due to price.
> 
> “Sure it has somthing to do with PSI. You work the percentages. That what PSI pushes. Advertise heavy and you get a large call volume. Out of that call volume you pick the suckers out”.
> 
> I find it hard to believe the baseless statements made. It has nothing to do with PSI. All businesses use percentages, you have areas you do not work in and this is due to not having much work in those areas, not worth your time and expenses to go there and that is a percentage. It shows where budget and changes are necessary within the organization. Sure I work percentages I have always used percentages to help make business decisions. When I sold my business I used percentages to inform to sell, grow or scale back*.I am sorry not everyone works out of a shoebox and off the couch and out of their garage*.
> 
> You seem to want to lump a large group of people into a circle. We do not pick out suckers and work on volume. I would venture to say we take more clients that you would spit out as useless to you and turn them into satisfied clients. By the way we do not belong to any sales organizations. I did flat rate in Ohio during the 80’s and here in Florida we went to flat rate in the late 90’s.
> 
> I really do not care that you do not get asked about your warranty you should be informing the client of your warranty. Your client should not have to ask about your warranty. I think you said it was peace of mind for your clients. Yes it should make a difference and separate you from your competition. The warranty is to cover defective products and human error and should be less than 2-3%. If product failure is 10% than stop using that product and is necessary to discover what type product does not work in your area. We discovered korky quiet fill ballcocks fail frequently in our area, we do not install these type ballcocks. Without tracking our products and using percentages we would not have noticed this issue.
> 
> Now to PSI, Nexstar, Phcc’s qvc ,franchises or any other organization that can help company owners who are willing to use them more power to each of them. They realize that there is more to running a business then plumbing. Some of the owners already know what these organizations do and implement it into their business and that is fantastic. My feelings on these type organizations, if a company owner is willing to invest and use what they prescribe they can have a very successful organization and profitable. Some do, some do not and those who do not implement the strategies have a rough go with the system. I will not condemn any businessman joining these organizations. They want help and these groups give help. Where else could these businessmen go to receive help and the help they need?
> 
> PSI or any other organization have nothing to do with this conversation and is being used to change the direction of this thread.


You sure like to be condescending, all the while preaching love, blue skies and butterflies.


----------



## Titan Plumbing

A lot of times folks have a tendency to use different gimmicks to overcome their inadequacy. For me, meh...................


----------



## GREENPLUM

I am doing things the old fashioned way, word of mouth, its free. I give a 1 year warranty on materials provided and labor. No bull**** in that, nothing is hidden.

I would not do business with a company that thinks " a warranty is a way to get back into my house and make more money". RIP OFF


----------



## TheMaster

Choctaw said:


> You sure like to be condescending, all the while preaching love, blue skies and butterflies.


Oh thats ok...I think he realizes he screwed up and that is were the attitude is coming from.

I like the shoebox,couch and garage comment........but hey I'm 39 I already have one 20yr retirement check coming in and 6 figures in cash in the bank.

I have 1600 sq ft of storage space with 1/2 of that being climate controlled.........and then a 2,000 sq ft house all on one property......

By the time I'm his age I wil probably be able to put Mr richards house in my garage:whistling2: and i'm not joking,thats the funny part:laughing:. 

I guess its hell to have to struggle to learn this by yourself and thats why people turn to organizations that he talks about........I refuse to support an organization other than my own unless its charity.......They would benefit from the relationship way more than I would.

Old people crack me up:laughing:


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL

[quote=TheMaster;128394]Oh thats ok...I think he realizes he screwed up and that is were the attitude is coming from.

I like the shoebox,couch and garage comment........but hey I'm 39 I already have one 20yr retirement check coming in and 6 figures in cash in the bank. ...... 
Old people crack me up:laughing:[/quote]

 
What branch of the military did you retire from? ARMY ?? 19 to 39, you must have been the regimental plumber. How else could you have learned the trade. Now ... Sir ... Be glad there are old people in this country or you as a young wipersnapper might be speaking German or Jap. No I never saw service in WWII. But I would never ... never say anything detrimental about older people, they taught me a lot. I was too busy in my younger years becoming a damn good plumber, raising a wonderful family and learning from, those older than I to run a plumbing shop like a business should be run. 

:furious:

That comment above "Old people crack me up" in the context it was used raised by blood pressure a few points. I will be looking at you in a different perspective in the future!


----------



## ILPlumber

I think damn near every person on the internet knows the guy who boasts about what he has in the bank, what kind of home he has, or how much tail he get's is completely full of shiot. 

I'm pretty good at reading people. My guess is that Plumber Bill could probably buy and sell most folks on the board. I know guys just like him who are sitting on 7 figures who just keep working for the love of the game. I will also venture to say, you will never here Plumber Bill or anyone from his generation boasting about what they may have in the bank.

He knows the secret, family is WAAAAAAY more important than stuff or money.

Speculation over.....................


----------



## TheMaster

Matt said:


> I think damn near every person on the internet knows the guy who boasts about what he has in the bank, what kind of home he has, or how much tail he get's is completely full of shiot. .


What does the internet have to do with it? Usually people who boast are fulla shiot in general...nothing to do with the internet. Now with that said....I've went into countless bars and pool halls and proclaimed..."No one here can beat me for $......." "I'm the best in here" Its the new hustle.....its the quickest way to get a game for money is to claim that your better than everyone. A mans ego will not let that go unpunished...they want to prove your not as good as you say and are willing to put their money up to PROVE your fulla shiot:laughing: 

So remember in the future that things are never as they seem to you and not everyone is fulla shiot or you might be hustling yourself.

I just woke up from a couple hour nap:brows: 

Sorry pawpaw:laughing:


----------



## OldSchool

TheMaster said:


> Oh thats ok...I think he realizes he screwed up and that is were the attitude is coming from.
> 
> I like the shoebox,couch and garage comment........but hey I'm 39 I already have one 20yr retirement check coming in and 6 figures in cash in the bank.
> 
> I have 1600 sq ft of storage space with 1/2 of that being climate controlled.........and then a 2,000 sq ft house all on one property......
> 
> By the time I'm his age I wil probably be able to put Mr richards house in my garage:whistling2: and i'm not joking,thats the funny part:laughing:.
> 
> I guess its hell to have to struggle to learn this by yourself and thats why people turn to organizations that he talks about........I refuse to support an organization other than my own unless its charity.......They would benefit from the relationship way more than I would.
> 
> Old people crack me up:laughing:


 
I think when you say you got 6 figures you are including the cents as well.

Average pay for military is $ 3,342.00 per month

Pension is 50% for an E-7 with 20 years of service there for your monthly pension is $ 1,671 per month

You are still well behind the rest in the property category for your age.


----------



## TheMaster

OldSchool said:


> I think when you say you got 6 figures you are including the cents as well.
> 
> Average pay for military is $ 3,342.00 per month
> 
> Pension is 50% for an E-7 with 20 years of service there for your monthly pension is $ 1,671 per month
> 
> You are still well behind the rest in the property category for your age.


Who said anything about Military:laughing: I'ma plumba boss:thumbsup:........Its over 100,000 in the banks bro and its all green and its all american..whatcha know about that?:laughing:


----------



## TheMaster

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> What branch of the military did you retire from? ARMY ?? 19 to 39, you must have been the regimental plumber. How else could you have learned the trade. Now ... Sir ... Be glad there are old people in this country or you as a young wipersnapper might be speaking German or Jap. No I never saw service in WWII. But I would never ... never say anything detrimental about older people, they taught me a lot. I was too busy in my younger years becoming a damn good plumber, raising a wonderful family and learning from, those older than I to run a plumbing shop like a business should be run.
> 
> :furious:
> 
> That comment above "Old people crack me up" in the context it was used raised by blood pressure a few points. I will be looking at you in a different perspective in the future!


 No Military....I turned down their bribes
Ok I will remember that if it wasn't for old people I might be speaking German or Japanese.......but I would rather think of it like this.......If is wasn't for the YOUNG MEN fighting the war back then I might be speaking German or Jap......because thats the truth:thumbsup: Now move along:laughing:

You can look at me anyway you want because you have the right...because the old men fought for that right back in the civil war. Is that right?:laughing:


----------



## liquidplumber

*To no one in particular*

Signs of Insecurity

An insecure person becomes overly selfish. He tries to surround himself with possessions, accolades and attention.

An insecure person becomes overly accommodating and tries to gain other people's approval.

Insecure people tend to be very defensive and cannot handle criticism. They are not comfortable with their own-self.

Insecure people can't enjoy silence and they try to fill it with unnecessary chatter.

Excessive joking is also a mechanism for coping with insecurity. An insecure person craves for other people's attention, which is achieved when other people laugh at their jokes. However, this leads to insensitivity towards others.

Insecure people are self promoting and constantly talk about themselves. They need validation from other people for their actions and qualities.
Insecure people are even threatened by others and therefore by bullying they try to crush their opinion.

Insecure people tent to be overly authoritative as they tend to compensate for their lack of confidence by taking out their frustrations on their subordinates.

Over competitiveness is also a sign of insecurity. They are scared of losing and so they always keep themselves at the edge.

Being materialistic also shows that person is insecure because he feels that by acquiring material wealth and showing it off he will be able to gain people's attention and acknowledgement.

Over jealousy is yet another sign of insecure people as they lack trust in their partners. This is visible in constant questioning, mistrust and altercations with the members of the opposite sex.


----------



## TheMaster

liquidplumber said:


> Signs of Insecurity
> 
> An insecure person becomes overly selfish. He tries to surround himself with possessions, accolades and attention.
> 
> An insecure person becomes overly accommodating and tries to gain other people's approval.
> 
> Insecure people tend to be very defensive and cannot handle criticism. They are not comfortable with their own-self.
> 
> Insecure people can't enjoy silence and they try to fill it with unnecessary chatter.
> 
> Excessive joking is also a mechanism for coping with insecurity. An insecure person craves for other people's attention, which is achieved when other people laugh at their jokes. However, this leads to insensitivity towards others.
> 
> Insecure people are self promoting and constantly talk about themselves. They need validation from other people for their actions and qualities.
> Insecure people are even threatened by others and therefore by bullying they try to crush their opinion.
> 
> Insecure people tent to be overly authoritative as they tend to compensate for their lack of confidence by taking out their frustrations on their subordinates.
> 
> Over competitiveness is also a sign of insecurity. They are scared of losing and so they always keep themselves at the edge.
> 
> Being materialistic also shows that person is insecure because he feels that by acquiring material wealth and showing it off he will be able to gain people's attention and acknowledgement.
> 
> Over jealousy is yet another sign of insecure people as they lack trust in their partners. This is visible in constant questioning, mistrust and altercations with the members of the opposite sex.


This sounds just like PSI...always competitive and its all about the money and they are always sending me stuff in the mail talking about what they are doing and what they can do for me. PSI and the people who join are insecure:thumbsup: Now I can see it:thumbup:


----------



## OldSchool

liquidplumber said:


> Signs of Insecurity
> 
> An insecure person becomes overly selfish. He tries to surround himself with possessions, accolades and attention.
> 
> An insecure person becomes overly accommodating and tries to gain other people's approval.
> 
> Insecure people tend to be very defensive and cannot handle criticism. They are not comfortable with their own-self.
> 
> Insecure people can't enjoy silence and they try to fill it with unnecessary chatter.
> 
> Excessive joking is also a mechanism for coping with insecurity. An insecure person craves for other people's attention, which is achieved when other people laugh at their jokes. However, this leads to insensitivity towards others.
> 
> Insecure people are self promoting and constantly talk about themselves. They need validation from other people for their actions and qualities.
> Insecure people are even threatened by others and therefore by bullying they try to crush their opinion.
> 
> Insecure people tent to be overly authoritative as they tend to compensate for their lack of confidence by taking out their frustrations on their subordinates.
> 
> Over competitiveness is also a sign of insecurity. They are scared of losing and so they always keep themselves at the edge.
> 
> Being materialistic also shows that person is insecure because he feels that by acquiring material wealth and showing it off he will be able to gain people's attention and acknowledgement.
> 
> Over jealousy is yet another sign of insecure people as they lack trust in their partners. This is visible in constant questioning, mistrust and altercations with the members of the opposite sex.


 
:laughing::laughing::laughing:

After reading TheMaster reply I guess it can go both ways


----------



## TheMaster

GREENPLUM said:


> why the **** do you have a photo of TM's house, thats ****ed up man, whats wrong with you?


Kinda weird huh:laughing: Thats what i thought myself. But I dotn think he's dangerous:thumbsup:

All of this just because Richard Hiller made a few comments about working off a couch and out of a garage....shoebox??? I simply explain that things are not as they seem to richard and comment that old people crack me up........then I get a group of 3 or 4 guys on here that thinks if it sounds good......it must be a lie. I tell ya it sounds like some just hate to hear the sucess of others without HELP from organizations and unions.


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## stillaround

I looked at the PSI link that TM put up and I know those 2 guys in the pic. Ive been to PSI and back....I have finally gotten off the kool aid and been dry for some time. Its not my personality to push up an invoice...so I never bought in fully......have to say it was a lot of fun until it was no longer fun. It has some good stuff. 
There was some lady(term used loosely) from Seattle area or something I wish I could have turned TM loose on her. I was minding my own business and made a small mistake by saying that each tech minimum a year was $250k...to which she abruptly corrected me and said its $350k..she didnt want the noobies at the table mislead. And then she asked me to guess how much she had in receivables...none....then got up and walked away. I had fallen out of grace..I felt like the mark was on me.
Then it seemed like every table I sat at people were vegetarians....ok I am bigoted. Thats not the reason I quit. Im glad I did though. 

Its going to be harder for PSI people to differentiate themselves in the days ahead. The kool aid is for sale all over. Red carpets, booties at Ferguson (from Shubee no less..theyre no dummies)...and the invoice price might matter more or less depending on the demographic. And the economy is leveling the playing field. The guy south of me ,who I respect overlaps in the city south of me at times and I got a job easily (slab leak) from them as the 3rd bid..middle price....the PSI tech ( a former insurance salesman) offered a repipe, throw in a water heater and thats how they do it...hook a few. Slab leak was in the middle of bathroom floor ,easy locate etc..and the 1st pinhole they ever had....Im not ready to push a repipe at that point...not in the customers best interest.

PSI can turn so many things into a "business" selling point and I find true plumbing socializing more to my taste....a lot of people get off on the schtik. To each his own there. I could say more on PSI but I do like the people (most of em) I met and there is no sour grapes. For the record though...the PSI members do have a discernable accent so to speak....
Fortunately I remember Abrams talking many times about being good and caring about the customer....cant tell if it was from the heart now since hes responsible for BF.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

just my 2 cents here, but we do NOT warranty stoppages of any kind, unless they would like to pay XTRA for us to send the camera down the hole to see what caused the stoppage. And if any such CAUSE is found, there is no WARRANTY PERIOD, unless they wanna PAY MORE XTRA for us to make the needed repairs. I should run for congress, because thoughts like this, just make 2 much cents. Ooops, I mean sense.:rockon:


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## stillaround

I agree but the humor should come with a satisfaction guarantee


or at least a term limit...couldnt resist...should be a bad humor thread but it wouldnt be funny....bdoom shush...there I go again


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## Don The Plumber

I hate any guarantee, that has any potential to be misunderstood. That's with any & everything. It should be 100% or nothing, no in betweens. Otherwise IMO it's bullchit, & another sly way to screw the consumer.
Example: My daughters cell phone broke apart where the top & bottom are hinged. Call the insurance co, which I have been paying for, for over 2yrs now, just on that phone, & they ask me if she dropped it. I said no, but that she obviously has in the past. The person on the phone says it's not covered cuz the drop didn't cause the break. If I would have said she dropped it, it was covered.:yes: Total BS. Bottom line, phone broke, I don't give a F how it broke. Then sell me a policy that will cover everything, & I will gladly pay double to get something worthwhile, than pay half and get nothing, other than the runaround.
If a contractor wants to take a gamble, (cuz that's what it is), by guaranteeing a sewer won't back up for 2 yrs, then it should be 100%. Not some rodding charge, with no labor, or whatever. It should be free. That is the gamble you take, by getting the extra work, or higher price, to clean out a drain, with a 2yr warranty.
Not slamming SR, cuz I know this warranty has done good for his business, over a 50yr period. I just don't agree with the extra charge for rodding. And I can guarantee this..............If a sewer that he cleans out backs up in 1yr, & he hands the rodding, or any other charge, to the customer when he is done, the customer will be surprised they have to pay something, whether it states it clearly on the warranty or not. Me as a customer, would feel misled, or swindled.


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## Ron

Thread clean up.

Thanks


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## Richard Hilliard

*drain cleaning recalls*

“You sure like to be condescending, all the while preaching love, blue skies and butterflies”.

I have said treat your clients well. Do what is in their best interest. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and will always be my message. I am like the most people I get tired of the crap being spilled without the proper knowledge. It is fine that you do not agree, believe or accept what is stated that is your right.
 I have only repeated what has been stated in forum threads along with a picture from a garage of shelves for plumbing items. I stand by the statements I have made.


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## TheMaster

Richard Hilliar said:


> “You sure like to be condescending, all the while preaching love, blue skies and butterflies”.
> 
> I have said treat your clients well. Do what is in their best interest. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and will always be my message. I am like the most people I get tired of the crap being spilled without the proper knowledge. It is fine that you do not agree, believe or accept what is stated that is your right.
> I have only repeated what has been stated in forum threads along with a picture from a garage of shelves for plumbing items. I stand by the statements I have made.


So where does PSI say you should store your plumbing supplies if not in a garage with shelving?:laughing: Should I install marble floors and Cherry cabinets?

I'm holding a nice color advertisment that is chock full of PSI info in my hands right now. Kinda looks like a trade magazine.....I started a thread about it. So is what I'm reading not what they preach? If they dont need me the why did they send the book? I for sure dont need them.


----------



## Phat Cat

TheMaster said:


> So where does PSI say you should store your plumbing supplies if not in a garage with shelving?:laughing: Should I install marble floors and Cherry cabinets?
> 
> I'm holding a nice color advertisment that is chock full of PSI info in my hands right now. Kinda looks like a trade magazine.....I started a thread about it. So is what I'm reading not what they preach? If they dont need me the why did they send the book? I for sure dont need them.


fftopic: I thought this thread was related to drain cleaning recalls.

Why not bury the damn horse and be done with it?


----------



## TheMaster

I bet if a customer asked......"Why do you give me a warranty?" The answer would not be..."so I can get back into your home". I suggest that if you give a warranty make it straight forward and very simple to understand.

Plumbcrazy.......I like to bury cows....not horses.:thumbsup: I especially like to bury purple cows:laughing:


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## Phat Cat

TheMaster said:


> Plumbcrazy.......I like to bury cows....not horses.:thumbsup: I especially like to bury purple cows:laughing:


I bet you would - horses seem manly, whereas cows seem ghey. :whistling2: Especially Purple Cows, but whatever bangs your shutters TM. I am not here to judge you. :no:


----------



## TheMaster

PlumbCrazy said:


> I bet you would - horses seem manly, whereas cows seem ghey. :whistling2: Especially Purple Cows, but whatever bangs your shutters TM. I am not here to judge you. :no:


Oh I thought we were to stay on topic......:whistling2: What are ya here for? Cows seem gay? Tell that to a 2500 lb bull.:laughing: HELLLLOOO is anyone home:laughing:


----------



## Phat Cat

Just trying to keep you honest and not letting you spout off garbage unchecked.

Good day!


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## Pipe Rat

I would be curious to know how much a service charge and rod charge costs for me to get my "Warranty" honered. I can tell you this, if I pay a premium for a service because I get a two year warranty and you come out looking for a check to satisfy said warranty I would write you off and never call again. You said yourself you don't have that many callbacks so why not figure your getting a premium up front for each job and take care of the few callbacks for free instead of hiding behind the fine print. Too funny.........I would venture to say these charges at least cover your hard costs of going back. So are you really giving them a "Warranty"??? Whatever.......


----------



## Kevan

Piperat said:


> You said yourself you don't have that many callbacks so why not figure your getting a premium up front for each job and take care of the few callbacks for free instead of hiding behind the fine print.


If the customer is fully informed, nobody is hiding behind fine print or anywhere else.

I don't handle my business SewerRatz's way at all, but I'm not going to pretend that he or you should do things my way. We all agree on basic principles of honesty and quality; but cats may be skinned by various methods, and whether or not a company charges for a service call in addition to a labor charge, marks up parts, offers this warranty or that, or uses Pex, CPVC, or copper are all within that company's prerogatives.

Other plumbers in Memphis do it their way, I do it my way, and the customer gets to choose the plumber he prefers. That's fair and honest.


----------



## Phat Cat

Drain cleaning is highly competitive. Depending on what others in your area are doing, you may have to change your strategy to compete.

If every drain cleaning company in town is advertising $99.00 to clean any drain, you will find it near impossible to book a call when your minimum is $150.00 to cable a line.

You will be spending all day on the phone trying to convince the customer that all the other cos. have additional charges, will insist on running the camera, or try to replace your lines etc. BUT, if you offer a guarantee/warranty like no one else, it will give you the edge you are looking for.

From everything I have read from SewerRatz in the past, he comes across as honest. To be in business as long as his family has, they must be doing something right. Just because extra charges are not customary in your area does not mean it is that way in his market.

I'm fairly certain SewerRatz did not share his info. so that we could slam him and put him on the defensive.


----------



## pauliplumber

I think for the most part people were just trying to help. Although a little harsh at times.

Keeping pricing/warranties as simple as possible is smart business, especially if you have alot of elderly customers. 

I agree sewerratz seems like an honest guy and I don't think he uses his warranty to take advantage of anyone, though I agree with PR in that he would be better off eating the occasional callback.


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## Tommy plumber

I don't think Richard Hilliar was explicitly stating or implying that he wants to bend every customer over and kick as hard as he can. I cannot assume or presume to speak for him but, in my opinion I was reading him as saying he plays the odds. That's all. A smart gambler goes with the odds. He sounds like a prudent businessman and a stand-up guy. In the service business the odds favor giving a waranty on material and labor; period. Speculate about WHY he or I give a warranty all you want.


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## Pipe Rat

Sorry if that sounded harsh folks but your right if it clearly states in your advertising that the two year warranty incurs a $100 dollar bill (pulled this number outta my arse) to use it, OK thats cool but I would guess they don't see that until they read the invoice (speculation on my part again) but I cant imagine proudly boasting up front (Loud and clear) that we have a two year warranty that only cost a service charge and a ROD charge. Maybe...........but I've been around awhile.
*"You can shear a sheep many times but you can only skin 'em once"*


----------



## SewerRatz

Piperat said:


> I would be curious to know how much a service charge and rod charge costs for me to get my "Warranty" honered. I can tell you this, if I pay a premium for a service because I get a two year warranty and you come out looking for a check to satisfy said warranty I would write you off and never call again. You said yourself you don't have that many callbacks so why not figure your getting a premium up front for each job and take care of the few callbacks for free instead of hiding behind the fine print. Too funny.........I would venture to say these charges at least cover your hard costs of going back. So are you really giving them a "Warranty"??? Whatever.......


Well maybe I did not explain our guarantee well enough, or I just need to break it down for you. 

On the invoice we will stamp our guarantee on the invoice and explain to the home owner how it works. Let me explain to you our rates for a main line.

Service Call $60
Large Rod Charge $45 
Labor $160 per hour

Lets say I rodded a main line and it took me an hour. The total invoice will be written just as you see it above with each charge broken down and then a total written at the bottom for $265

Now the Stamp with our guarantee written on it says " We will Rerod once labor free if the above line blocks within 2 years"

Then I explain to them there will be no labor charge, just the service call and rod charge for a total of $105. That they are getting the labor free no matter how long it takes for the rerod. SO lets say the recall was 23 months later and for some reason the roots grew back a bit heaver and the rodding took me 1 1/2 hours to rod, they do not need to pay me $240 for labor, just the service call and rod charge.

If you are a drain cleaner you should know drain lines put wear and tear on your machine and cables along with the mileage driven burns gas and puts wear and tear on the truck, so the service call covers the truck, the rod charge covers the machine, and as for my pay (labor) They are getting it free. 

We do not get any complaints from any one about how our guarantee works. The reason for this post was to point out how some people these days try to get one over on us. There are times I will tell the home owner there is a problem in the sewer and it needs to be repaired, and until it is repaired I can not give them a guarantee. But these people will back up a few weeks, or months later and say they have a canceled check but can not find their invoice so can we come out and give them the labor free rodding. Of course we keep records and make a copy of the invoice for them showing they that we did not guarantee the rodding due to an issue that needs repair.

Our ads have the guarantee clearly written in them when we had ads in the yellow pages. Let me direct you to my BBB Rating.


----------



## TheMaster

SewerRatz said:


> Well maybe I did not explain our guarantee well enough, or I just need to break it down for you.
> 
> On the invoice we will stamp our guarantee on the invoice and explain to the home owner how it works. Let me explain to you our rates for a main line.
> 
> Service Call $60
> Large Rod Charge $45
> Labor $160 per hour
> 
> Lets say I rodded a main line and it took me an hour. The total invoice will be written just as you see it above with each charge broken down and then a total written at the bottom for $265
> 
> Now the Stamp with our guarantee written on it says " We will Rerod once labor free if the above line blocks within 2 years"
> 
> Then I explain to them there will be no labor charge, just the service call and rod charge for a total of $105. That they are getting the labor free no matter how long it takes for the rerod. SO lets say the recall was 23 months later and for some reason the roots grew back a bit heaver and the rodding took me 1 1/2 hours to rod, they do not need to pay me $240 for labor, just the service call and rod charge.
> 
> If you are a drain cleaner you should know drain lines put wear and tear on your machine and cables along with the mileage driven burns gas and puts wear and tear on the truck, so the service call covers the truck, the rod charge covers the machine, and as for my pay (labor) They are getting it free.
> 
> We do not get any complaints from any one about how our guarantee works. The reason for this post was to point out how some people these days try to get one over on us. There are times I will tell the home owner there is a problem in the sewer and it needs to be repaired, and until it is repaired I can not give them a guarantee. But these people will back up a few weeks, or months later and say they have a canceled check but can not find their invoice so can we come out and give them the labor free rodding. Of course we keep records and make a copy of the invoice for them showing they that we did not guarantee the rodding due to an issue that needs repair.
> 
> Our ads have the guarantee clearly written in them when we had ads in the yellow pages. Let me direct you to my BBB Rating.


A judge would not consider what you "told them"...just whats stamped on the invoice. It's questionable if its not ALL on the invoice IMO.


----------



## SewerRatz

TheMaster said:


> A judge would not consider what you "told them"...just whats stamped on the invoice. It's questionable if its not ALL on the invoice IMO.


It clearly states one labor free rodding, the invoice clearly is broken down as service call, rod charge and labor. So I do not see any judge or anyone else thinking the whole job would be free.

And as I said we do not get any complaints about how our guarantee is written and what it covers. Which it only covers the labor for rodding the drain period. And once again the reason for this post was to point out how a customer tries to take advantage of a company by trying to get the guarantee to apply to a drain we did not rod. So please TM lets keep it on topic I did not make this post to see if you agree to our guarantee that we been offering for more years than you have been in business.


----------



## TheMaster

SewerRatz said:


> It clearly states one labor free rodding, the invoice clearly is broken down as service call, rod charge and labor. So I do not see any judge or anyone else thinking the whole job would be free.
> 
> And as I said we do not get any complaints about how our guarantee is written and what it covers. Which it only covers the labor for rodding the drain period. And once again the reason for this post was to point out how a customer tries to take advantage of a company by trying to get the guarantee to apply to a drain we did not rod. So please TM lets keep it on topic I did not make this post to see if you agree to our guarantee that we been offering for more years than you have been in business.


It is on topic...you just dont agree with my opinion. Thats ok too:thumbsup: We have been in business since about 1935:thumbsup:

I do have a question tho......Its a 2 year guarantee...what happens if they call the next week and say that the drain is clogged again........ DO they get charged again? Or is it Totally free of any charge?


----------



## Phat Cat

SewerRatz said:


> It clearly states one labor free rodding, the invoice clearly is broken down as service call, rod charge and labor. So I do not see any judge or anyone else thinking the whole job would be free.
> 
> And as I said we do not get any complaints about how our guarantee is written and what it covers. Which it only covers the labor for rodding the drain period. And once again the reason for this post was to point out how a customer tries to take advantage of a company by trying to get the guarantee to apply to a drain we did not rod. So please TM lets keep it on topic I did not make this post to see if you agree to our guarantee that we been offering for more years than you have been in business.


SewerRatz - Your explanation of the invoice and the three charges makes perfect sense. Not getting any complaints shows that the customers obviously understand what they are getting.

Even with the perfect warranty spelled out in a three page document, you will get customers who attempt to skirt the terms and will try to get over on a company.

We had a customer on a Sunday call for service on a water line that he said we connected to his water meter. Luckily, my home computer also has the business records on it. He thought he was going to get FREE warranty service. :no: We never did the work that he claimed we did and I don't believe for one moment that he made a mistake. He was trying to get one over on us.

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:


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## OldSchool

SewerRatz ... just an idea here...did you ever consider selling a extended warranity on top of your present one. It would be more or less selling insurance or maintence contract.

I guess you would have record on the odds of going back to the same place over say 5 years..

This could give you an additional income for not even having to ever go back to the same house.


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## waldrop

Even with the perfect warranty spelled out in a three page document, you will get customers who attempt to skirt the terms and will try to get over on a company.

We had a customer on a Sunday call for service on a water line that he said we connected to his water meter. Luckily, my home computer also has the business records on it. He thought he was going to get FREE warranty service. :no: We never did the work that he claimed we did and I don't believe for one moment that he made a mistake. He was trying to get one over on us.

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:[/QUOTE
we had same thing on kitchen sink we did not install , but i do believe a former plumber did it on side on my dime ,it took him to long to do the two toilets,told the guy we can't warranty work we didn't get payed to do


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## ChrisConnor

Waldrop, I've had the same kinda idiots call me wanting me to fix something I've never seen before. LOL.


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## PlungerJockey

We offer ZERO warranty on drain calls. I'm not going to warranty or be responsible for anything in the walls, ground, or slab I can't see.

If I'm there to clear a stoppage something is wrong, either a problem with the drain or the person dumping the ole Fry Daddy downthe drain.

Now that being said we get very few drain recalls. If I go out on a recall and feel one of the guys did'nt go far enough or did a piss poor job. I'll take care of the customer. No charge, no labor, no cable fee.

We see the same people every fall, they have a root intrusion problem and will not let go of the money to repair it.

Why would I want to take a chance and have to clean their drains at no charge, because they made the warranty cut-off by a week?

We warranty eveything else we do for 1 year, if they want a warranty on a drain, it's getting repaired or replaced.


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## TheMaster

This is not a drain cleaning warraty issue but it was presented by the customer to be a warranty issue.

I repaired a water main at the water meter about 3 years ago. customer calls this morning and says...."The water line you repaired a few months back is leaking again.. your gonna come repair it right" 

I dont remember the job so I ask for the invoice number ....."I dont have it" Ok do you have a cancelled check of when you paid me..."NO sir i dont have that either"
Ok then I will hafta look you up in my records and that will take about 5 minutes or so...i will call you right back. "Oh well it doesn't matter....I ran over the meter box with my sons truck" 

Nice try lady! I looked it up anyway and it was 3 yrs ago...I'm taking her a copy of it.


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## KCJAKE

I guess I have have never heard of a 2 year warranty (labor-free) here in the midwest. Most companies that I know of in K.C. offer either a 3-6 month root warranty and 30 day warranty on general stoppages. I understand about your customer though - I have dealt with so many folks trying to get something for free in my drain cleaning days. I always tried to be calm and explain clearly the warranty. However, once they called the supervisor to complain we did it for free


----------



## SewerRatz

KCJAKE said:


> I guess I have have never heard of a 2 year warranty (labor-free) here in the midwest. Most companies that I know of in K.C. offer either a 3-6 month root warranty and 30 day warranty on general stoppages. I understand about your customer though - I have dealt with so many folks trying to get something for free in my drain cleaning days. I always tried to be calm and explain clearly the warranty. However, once they called the supervisor to complain we did it for free


Its been almost a year since I made this post, and since then we had all of one recall, and it was due to baby wipes. We rodded the sewer a year ago, they had a baby since then and thought it was a great idea to flush them down the drain. I went ahead and warrantied it for them this time, but explained if the line gets abused again ( tampons, wipes and such) they will have to pay full price. 

Other than that one recall, have not had any since. I have had people call me cause its been 2 years and a month and they want the line rodded for preventive maintenance. They really enjoy the fact we are able to guarantee the line for 2 years.


----------



## ap plumbing

SewerRatz said:


> Its been almost a year since I made this post, and since then we had all of one recall, and it was due to baby wipes. We rodded the sewer a year ago, they had a baby since then and thought it was a great idea to flush them down the drain. I went ahead and warrantied it for them this time, but explained if the line gets abused again ( tampons, wipes and such) they will have to pay full price.
> 
> Other than that one recall, have not had any since. I have had people call me cause its been 2 years and a month and they want the line rodded for preventive maintenance. They really enjoy the fact we are able to guarantee the line for 2 years.


 To me 2 yrs is a damn good deal. I only guarantee my drain cleaning calls 30 days and what i explain to the customer is if the drain is working good for 30 days of daily usage. then the job was done correctly . if its going to back up it will happen within a week or less. 

I'm wondering how much do you charge 4 a small or main line drain? and how long do you spend time on a drain cleaning job?


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## KCJAKE

I could see a long-term warranty being an excellent way to attach yourself to a customer. The more I think about it, the more I like it. There is always upselling, too


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## SewerRatz

ap plumbing said:


> To me 2 yrs is a damn good deal. I only guarantee my drain cleaning calls 30 days and what i explain to the customer is if the drain is working good for 30 days of daily usage. then the job was done correctly . if its going to back up it will happen within a week or less.
> 
> I'm wondering how much do you charge 4 a small or main line drain? and how long do you spend time on a drain cleaning job?


We are T&M and most jobs can be done within an hour. Some mains may take a little longer due to the length of sewer, last time it was rodded and stuff like that. With main lines we try to get at least a 4" cutter through the line. My rodding style I learned from my father, which is to start with a small cutter like a 2" blade then go to a 3" then finish off with the 4", and if I am in a 6" clean out then run the 6" cutter as well.


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## gear junkie

Ron, do you feel your customers who come to you for drain cleaning are because of 1)your warranty 2)how long you've been in business 3)referrals. 

Does your warranty include using rootx or jetting or is it solely rodding the line?


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## SewerRatz

gear junkie said:


> Ron, do you feel your customers who come to you for drain cleaning are because of 1)your warranty 2)how long you've been in business 3)referrals.
> 
> Does your warranty include using rootx or jetting or is it solely rodding the line?


I have to say the warranty and the fact that we been around so long helps us get the first time callers, the warranty keeps them calling us back every two years though. My father been giving this warranty since he started the business, so using RootX or jetting was not an option back then. We give it even if there is no jetting, RootX or telavising of the line.


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## Will

2 year guarantee on sewer line cleaning is unheard of. I'm all about standing behind my work, but I'd never warranty a line for that long. Most times lines back up because a problem/faulty line, not because the wife flushed something down the dfrain she shouldn't have. If it works for you though, more power to you:thumbsup:


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## SewerRatz

Will said:


> 2 year guarantee on sewer line cleaning is unheard of. I'm all about standing behind my work, but I'd never warranty a line for that long. Most times lines back up because a problem/faulty line, not because the wife flushed something down the dfrain she shouldn't have. If it works for you though, more power to you:thumbsup:


Will you have to look at it this way. Around here 99% of the sewers are 6" clay pipe. Everyone here has tree roots. My father learned if you clear the roots out properly (which any experienced rodder can feel with his rod), the line will stay open for 2 years or more. We do get the occasional line that will plug within a year, we just go out and rerod them. I would say over 99% of the sewers we rod stay open beyond the 2 year term.


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## smoldrn

Had a call yesterday about a drain I snaked out a month ago. Trailer in a park. I found a main c.o. underneath, it was about 40' to the rear of the trailer, ran 60' of cable, cleared stoppage then ran about 10 more feet. I was out in a utility easement with the cable, way past his lot line. Flushed the toilet 9 times in a row, lav running at the same time, all good. This is a vacation home.
The daughter calls yesterday & says it's stopped up again, wants it fixed for free, I said there would be a charge, she wasn't too happy.


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## Will

Did you camera the line to see what the problem was or atleast feel anything unusual when rodding the line?


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## SewerRatz

Will said:


> Did you camera the line to see what the problem was or atleast feel anything unusual when rodding the line?


Now a days I do, If I can not get a large cutter through or feel an odd spot, I will run the camera in to see what I am up against. In the days before a camera, if I couldn't get a large cutter through, I would run the last blade through that was able to pass the spot.


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## smoldrn

I'm still a dinosaur, I guess, no camera yet. Customer shorted me on the original payment by $30, said that's all he had. I believe I was out in the main, told customer to contact park owner as the lots are rented.


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## AssTyme

smoldrn said:


> I'm still a dinosaur, I guess, no camera yet. Customer shorted me on the original payment by $30, said that's all he had. I believe I was out in the main, told customer to contact park owner as the lots are rented.




Do you know the cause of the original blockage ?


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## smoldrn

No, I had a 2" cutter blade. Felt something a little hard, then felt like I had it. Ran it back & forth a couple of times before I ran xtra 10'.Old trees around & ABS. I wanted to cut in a co out back for him, be he kept crying poverty.


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## retired rooter

*Go back or not???*

I got a call approx 2 weeks ago to unstop a kitchen sink,diswasher,with a disposal, from who I thought was a total stranger,I took(3/8) machine to the roof filled both sides of sink and ran down stack .When sink emptied ,I went inside and turned on water got back on roof,ran cable back forth thru the line several times with water running wide open.They also wanted an upstairs lav opened so I took small (1/4'')machine up and ran lav.While I was working on the lav drain the ho's mother was cutting up fruit ,oranges,onions ,grapefruit etc and stuffing them down disposal to see if I had opened the drain (correctly) HA !!!!
.Everything was fine so I shook my head (picked up my check and left).Fast foward ,today a couple of weeks later ,you guessed it , sink is filling approx 1/4 full when DW is emptying and then draining out slowly.Normally I would have politely refused to go back ,but I found out he was one of the surgeons that helped saved my sons leg(from an infection) after a motorycle accident.
Today, I had outpatient sugery to remove a cyst out from under my ring fingernail and will be out of commission for at least a week. Dont want any poo or anything else to risk an infection.So I printed the recent post about plumbers and doctors and Im going to take my son over and let him re run the line on saturday,and show him(the doc) what you guys say about difference between plumbers and doctors.I wonder if he will offer to pay me or expect it to be a freeby? I am not going to give him another bill ,just see how he reacts,I have been dealing with his wife and she will not be there this weekend ,If his mother and law were there I would give her a bill, but she has gone back to PALASTINE,(or somewhere in that area of the world


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## ap plumbing

retired rooter said:


> I got a call approx 2 weeks ago to unstop a kitchen sink,diswasher,with a disposal, from who I thought was a total stranger,I took(3/8) machine to the roof filled both sides of sink and ran down stack .When sink emptied ,I went inside and turned on water got back on roof,ran cable back forth thru the line several times with water running wide open.They also wanted an upstairs lav opened so I took small (1/4'')machine up and ran lav.While I was working on the lav drain the ho's mother was cutting up fruit ,oranges,onions ,grapefruit etc and stuffing them down disposal to see if I had opened the drain (correctly) HA !!!!
> .Everything was fine so I shook my head (picked up my check and left).Fast foward ,today a couple of weeks later ,you guessed it , sink is filling approx 1/4 full when DW is emptying and then draining out slowly.Normally I would have politely refused to go back ,but I found out he was one of the surgeons that helped saved my sons leg(from an infection) after a motorycle accident.
> Today, I had outpatient sugery to remove a cyst out from under my ring fingernail and will be out of commission for at least a week. Dont want any poo or anything else to risk an infection.So I printed the recent post about plumbers and doctors and Im going to take my son over and let him re run the line on saturday,and show him(the doc) what you guys say about difference between plumbers and doctors.I wonder if he will offer to pay me or expect it to be a freeby? I am not going to give him another bill ,just see how he reacts,I have been dealing with his wife and she will not be there this weekend ,If his mother and law were there I would give her a bill, but she has gone back to PALASTINE,(or somewhere in that area of the world


 Had that happen to me after I cleaned the line out the line h.o. poured a pan full pasta down the dsposal to see if the line was o.k. I told them that the line is guaranteed .but they can't misuse the sink like that. so a week later it backed up again i opened up cleanout and all ths food came out of cleanout so i charge again. the proof was looking right at them :laughing:


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## Redwood

smoldrn said:


> No, I had a 2" cutter blade. Felt something a little hard, then felt like I had it. Ran it back & forth a couple of times before I ran xtra 10'.Old trees around & ABS. I wanted to cut in a co out back for him, be he kept crying poverty.


So you cleaned a main with a 2" blade and wondered why it clogged again? :blink:


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## smoldrn

Redwood said:


> So you cleaned a main with a 2" blade and wondered why it clogged again? :blink:


The line was 3", & I've never had a problem before.


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## Redwood

Redwood said:


> So you cleaned a main with a 2" blade and wondered why it clogged again? :blink:





smoldrn said:


> The line was 3", & I've never had a problem before.


I always go with the maximum possible blade size that can go in the pipe...
Seems to work...


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## AssTyme

Redwood said:


> Seems to work...



Well yeah but you're outta this world :laughing:


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## drs

4 inch blade in a 4 inch pipe. If it does not fit no guarantee. We start with a small blade and work our way up.
In a emergency we will "Jump the Housetrap" but still get the machine next to the HouseTrap's clean out and run bigger blade down the line.


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## retired rooter

retired rooter said:


> I got a call approx 2 weeks ago to unstop a kitchen sink,diswasher,with a disposal, from who I thought was a total stranger,I took(3/8) machine to the roof filled both sides of sink and ran down stack .When sink emptied ,I went inside and turned on water got back on roof,ran cable back forth thru the line several times with water running wide open.They also wanted an upstairs lav opened so I took small (1/4'')machine up and ran lav.While I was working on the lav drain the ho's mother was cutting up fruit ,oranges,onions ,grapefruit etc and stuffing them down disposal to see if I had opened the drain (correctly) HA !!!!
> .Everything was fine so I shook my head (picked up my check and left).Fast foward ,today a couple of weeks later ,you guessed it , sink is filling approx 1/4 full when DW is emptying and then draining out slowly.Normally I would have politely refused to go back ,but I found out he was one of the surgeons that helped saved my sons leg(from an infection) after a motorycle accident.
> Today, I had outpatient sugery to remove a cyst out from under my ring fingernail and will be out of commission for at least a week. Dont want any poo or anything else to risk an infection.So I printed the recent post about plumbers and doctors and Im going to take my son over and let him re run the line on saturday,and show him(the doc) what you guys say about difference between plumbers and doctors.I wonder if he will offer to pay me or expect it to be a freeby? I am not going to give him another bill ,just see how he reacts,I have been dealing with his wife and she will not be there this weekend ,If his mother and law were there I would give her a bill, but she has gone back to PALASTINE,(or somewhere in that area of the world


 just as I thought doc not home but maid let me in we ran line again and I left him note about disposals on septic systems and putting too much in disposal ps I could not get anything to back up Running dishwasher and water wide open while we cleaned line again I am thinking his wife just wanted a freeby,who knows???


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## PeckPlumbing

ChrisConnor said:


> The BBB does list a report against non members, but you can send them a letter demanding they not keep and report files. Such things are for a court of law and not for some money grabbing group such as the BBB.
> 
> Anything that grades you for pay is dubious at best.


 

A lot of people use the BBB. Sometimes they use it just like a phonebook... Its been around longer than any other BS site like service magic or angies list. Im suprised many of you dislike it.


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## Redwood

PeckPlumbing said:


> A lot of people use the BBB. Sometimes they use it just like a phonebook... Its been around longer than any other BS site like service magic or angies list. Im suprised many of you dislike it.


Whats to like about extortion?


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## drs

Redwood said:


> Whats to like about extortion?


 a local BBB tried to tell me as part of my Local Licence requirements that the County "forgo"t to tell me, I HAD to join them. I took his name, his phone number and I told them that I will pass this to my Lawyer for review and to the county also. That is when MAJOR Back Pedaling on his part came into play.

He turned out to be a commis salesman for them.

I will not trust anything they say or do without proof. A few years later I got a call from another person trying to tell me that a customer filed a compalint with them and for a low fee I can see who it was and make them a happy customer thru them. My Lawyer had a field day with this person. It was a attempt at selling BBB and getting me to join. There was no unhappy customer.


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## AssTyme

Woops....


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## RW Plumbing

drs said:


> a local BBB tried to tell me as part of my Local Licence requirements that the County "forgo"t to tell me, I HAD to join them. I took his name, his phone number and I told them that I will pass this to my Lawyer for review and to the county also. That is when MAJOR Back Pedaling on his part came into play.
> 
> He turned out to be a commis salesman for them.
> 
> I will not trust anything they say or do without proof. A few years later I got a call from another person trying to tell me that a customer filed a compalint with them and for a low fee I can see who it was and make them a happy customer thru them. My Lawyer had a field day with this person. It was a attempt at selling BBB and getting me to join. There was no unhappy customer.


Wow, i'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure thats illegal. I like telling people like that to put it in writing or an email then actually forward it to the authorities. Let him lose his job for trying to strong arm you.


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