# Tar Drains



## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

To all the drain pros. Just a quick question I was working north of Toronto on a main drain which i dont normally do anymore. The customers house and his neighbour were both backing up so automatically i thought both homes connect on a wye to the city i opened up 2 manholes and both were fine which made my initial conclusion seem more logical. I snaked both homes to no avail. When another homeowner walking her dog said to me are they having drain issues i said yes she said i live around the corner and she said 7 people in a row had collapsed drains and that it was some type of tar paper drains. homes were bult in the 60s. Does anyone know what the material and what the name of that kind of pipe is? Ive never seen it or heard of it and ive worked on 100 year old homes. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Orangeburg


----------



## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Orangeburg piping

Haven't seen it on sanitary around here but it's prevelant on drainage


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Orangeburg.


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeap..tarpaper pipes.. when I first started out that what I used ONLY for downspout drainage which the trenches are much shallower. We have several subvisions with those pipes are becoming oval and then collasped. There's a history thread about those pipe somewhere here in the zone.


----------



## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

orangeburg. Time to dig them up


----------



## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

Thanks guys i looked up orangeburg and in canada they called it no corrode. it does make sense considering it was booming in the 60s and the whole subdivision was built in the 60s time to digger' up! I tried typing tar drains in the search but nothing came up lol


----------



## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

I've heard of them but never seen one myself.....have heard about them collapsing.


----------



## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

In it's day it was a shot at better technology. Sadly it eggs and collapses easier than most of it's counter parts. It's a bugger to repair too when customers won't let me do a full replacement.


----------



## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Pretty obvious when you see them on camera.Most are ovalled.
You can also tell when your snaking.The resistance of the oval causes a familliar rhythm.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Bituminous Fiber Pipe.

Orangeburg was a brand name based on its original manufacturing location in New York.

It started in the late 1800's as electrical conduit.

It is very common around here. A lot of it was put in during the 60's.


----------



## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Bituminous Fiber Pipe.
> 
> Orangeburg was a brand name based on its original manufacturing location in New York.
> 
> ...


exactly as i read it online. even to do a spot repair what kind of couplings would you use to repair it. i mean if it ovals that way even a fernco would bend it no?


----------



## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Pinnacle said:


> exactly as i read it online. even to do a spot repair what kind of couplings would you use to repair it. i mean if it ovals that way even a fernco would bend it no?


No it does fine with them. I've used them plenty of times. But I recommend surrounding the repair joints with concrete to help stabilize and hold it all together till the next time. I've seen them be darn near flat too. I disclaim the fool out of it collect and get a signature. But if they don't have the money or won't let me take it further my hands are tied.


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Bituminous Fiber Pipe.
> 
> Orangeburg was a brand name based on its original manufacturing location in New York.
> 
> ...


 Read the website.. its was made in Orangeburg, Pa... shuttering to think what's every pipes in installed in that town.. or does it exist?? Back to googling


----------



## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Pinnacle said:


> exactly as i read it online. even to do a spot repair what kind of couplings would you use to repair it. i mean if it ovals that way even a fernco would bend it no?


 A good supply house will have a specific band for it.Called a "Transite to Plastic" coupling out here.very similar to clay to plastic except a little thinner ID opposite the plastic.


----------



## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> Bituminous Fiber Pipe.
> 
> Orangeburg was a brand name based on its original manufacturing location in New York.
> 
> ...



So what rocket scientist had the idea to bury it underground and keep it wet?:blink:


----------



## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

id replace it as well but this customer is in his 80s with little money im trying my best to help him out. so if i can do a spot repair i will.


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

drtyhands said:


> A good supply house will have a specific band for it.Called a "Transite to Plastic" coupling out here.very similar to clay to plastic except a little thinner ID opposite the plastic.


 
Mission Rubber Co. calls it "AC to Plastic" [asbestos concrete]

[might help him at the supply house]


----------



## Bellboy (Jan 21, 2012)

I run into it a lot around here that and clay pipe. Both suck!


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Read the website.. its was made in Orangeburg, Pa... shuttering to think what's every pipes in installed in that town.. or does it exist?? Back to googling


Although there are a couple of sites that say it was Orangeburg, PA, I believe that is incorrect.

In 1893, Stephen Bradley, Sr. (then owner of the Union Electric Company and the Nyack Electric Light and Power Company) founded the Fibre Conduit Company in Orangeburg, New York.

All shipments of OB pipe to Oklahoma in the 50's and 60's were from New York. I think the references to PA is misinformation.

Several companies made fiber conduit in the early 1900s, including, but not limited to:

American ( East Chicago, Ill)
J – M Fibre Conduit ( Lockport, NY)
Bermico (by the Brown Co. of Berlin, NH)
American ( Fulton, NY)
Fibre Conduit Co. ( Orangeburg, NY)

http://www.sewerhistory.org/articles/compon/orangeburg/orangeburg.htm


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Mission Rubber Co. calls it "AC to Plastic" [asbestos concrete]
> 
> [might help him at the supply house]


These are the best since the larger OD helps with the out-of-round condition Orangeburg typically has. Its OD is a little bigger than PVC to start with.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Although there are a couple of sites that say it was Orangeburg, PA, I believe that is incorrect.
> 
> In 1893, Stephen Bradley, Sr. (then owner of the Union Electric Company and the Nyack Electric Light and Power Company) founded the Fibre Conduit Company in Orangeburg, New York.
> 
> ...


 







Correct Mr. Biz.; Orangeburg, NY. I graduated from Tappan Zee High School in that same town of Orangeburg. The factory that manufactured the pipe was in that town.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

http://www.sewerhistory.org/grfx/components/pipe-orng1.htm


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Thanks for correcting me.. somewhere I thought I read it its from Pa...


----------



## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I cleanedout my father in laws barn a few years back and there was several new piecesof 3 and 4" orangeburg, I should've took some pics beforeI pitched it!


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

deerslayer said:


> I cleanedout my father in laws barn a few years back and there was several new piecesof 3 and 4" orangeburg, I should've took some pics beforeI pitched it!


Deerslayer:

You didn't have to pitch the stuff, it was already pitched ... ROTFLMAO


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Good one Mr. Parr!

:thumbup:


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Thanks for correcting me.. somewhere I thought I read it its from Pa...


I found a plumber's website that has a lot of "look how smart I am" info to educate their readers. He says PA was the source. He probably never checked what his web guy built for him.


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> I found a plumber's website that has a lot of "look how smart I am" info to educate their readers. He says PA was the source. He probably never checked what his web guy built for him.


Then it was not made by Redwood.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> I found a plumber's website that has a lot of "look how smart I am" info to educate their readers. He says PA was the source. He probably never checked what his web guy built for him.


http://www.craftsmanpipelining.com/2009/12/re-line-orangeburg-pipe-tampa-orlando/


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Just watched the guys video. He really needs to check his history.

Hopefully he will see this thread and correct his site.


----------



## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

I replaced an orangeburg line 1 time in Dallas . The line for so oval'd it was almost flat you couldn't get a turd through it lol


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

playme1979 said:


> I replaced an orangeburg line 1 time in Dallas . The line for so oval'd it was almost flat you couldn't get a turd through it lol


 That's so true... then tell me how do they re-line those oval shaped pipes??


----------



## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> That's so true... then tell me how do they re-line those oval shaped pipes??


I would guess that the one's they are relining haven't been squeezed down to nothing .


----------



## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

Over here in the uk there are lots of what we call pitch fibre pipes, to repair we did them up or re-round & reline. 
http://www.southerndrainage.com/images/img/rerounds.jpg
http://www.247drainagesolutions.co.uk/images/Reforming-Tools-lg.jpg

http://www.coastaldrains.co.uk/images/pitch.jpg

http://www.aquarodsouthwest.co.uk/images/pitchfibre-1.jpg

http://www.draincaresw.co.uk/blockeddrainsdevon/relined1pitch-fibre_drain.jpg


Hope this helps


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

ianclapham said:


> Over here in the uk there are lots of what we call pitch fibre pipes, to repair we did them up or re-round & reline.
> http://www.southerndrainage.com/images/img/rerounds.jpg
> http://www.247drainagesolutions.co.uk/images/Reforming-Tools-lg.jpg
> 
> ...


We sold that crap to you folks too, eh? Sorry about that.


----------



## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

They got a lot of Orangeburg pipe in California East Bay as well haven't seen it here in Houston yet...


----------



## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> We sold that crap to you folks too, eh? Sorry about that.


It's a huge problem over here
Take 5 minutes to read this
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/pitch-fibre-pipes.html


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

ianclapham said:


> It's a huge problem over here
> Take 5 minutes to read this
> http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/pitch-fibre-pipes.html


I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the term "Accidental". I believe we deem it 'Negligence' on this side of the Pond.

It's too bad the link doesn't include a publication date.

How often do you run into this product?

How often is the product you do run into beyond repair (over the re-lining parameters threshold)?

Regardless, having the equipment to repair the product in place sounds like a very profitable gig.


----------



## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the term "Accidental". I believe we deem it 'Negligence' on this side of the Pond. It's too bad the link doesn't include a publication date. How often do you run into this product? How often is the product you do run into beyond repair (over the re-lining parameters threshold)? Regardless, having the equipment to repair the product in place sounds like a very profitable gig.


On a daily basis we come across it. 75% is in need of replacement.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I see quite a bit of it...

Bottom of the pipe missing...
Ovaled...
Blistered...

It's not a question if it will need replacement, but rather when it will need replacement...

It has about a 25 year service life and it was installed in the 50's, 60's, & 70's...
Do the math! It's toast!

Spot Repair?
Yea maybe if the AHJ will let you...
And then it is a question if you can find a spot that is good enough to make a connection..

The damn stuff is so brittle you better plan on making several cuts to find a spot good enough to attach to..


----------



## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I see quite a bit of it... Bottom of the pipe missing... Ovaled... Blistered... It's not a question if it will need replacement, but rather when it will need replacement... It has about a 25 year service life and it was installed in the 50's, 60's, & 70's... Do the math! It's toast! Spot Repair? Yea maybe if the AHJ will let you... And then it is a question if you can find a spot that is good enough to make a connection.. The damn stuff is so brittle you better plan on making several cuts to find a spot good enough to attach to..


100% agree redwood


----------

