# Which tankless water heater is better?



## plumbnew (Apr 26, 2011)

which brand one is better?

rheem, rinnai or noritz? I plan to use noritz 
tankless water heater because of the price. is it a good choice?

I used another brand before, and do not want to use it again.

thanks


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

plumbnew said:


> which brand one is better?
> 
> rheem, rinnai or noritz? I plan to use noritz
> tankless water heater because of the price. is it a good choice?
> ...



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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Paloma! :thumbup:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Have you tried the hybrids?


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## Plantificus (Sep 17, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> Have you tried the hybrids?


:laughing:


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## timplmbr (Mar 16, 2011)

truthfully its a matter of opinion, and preference, but please do you home work especialy in sizing. that is a big problem around here size it correctly,


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I believe the most reliable info on which tankless unit to buy will be found here: http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/

If you don't find what your looking for there, it might be discovered here: http://www.diychatroom.com/


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I'd say the one that won't cost you a customer here in the next 6-12 months because japan can't send it by boat, manufacture down do you like bright fish?


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## superplumber_mi (Feb 6, 2011)

*Tankless water heater brands.*

Back in 1980 I installed Paloma water heaters, now the owners of Rheem. They are from Japan and on of the very first on the market. A good product but the service manual was printed in Japanese. I learned how to service and sell them and was very successful. 

A supplier asked me to look at Rinnai and Bosch. The Bosch is very serviceable, reliable and has a lot of built in features. We do solar thermal and the Bosch is programmed to recognize warm water and will temper it to the temperature that the heater is set at.

Look at the list of service bulletins for the various heaters and open them up to see how to replace the heat exchanger, water valve, gas valve, etc. You are the person that will have to perform the service when something goes wrong. How good is the customer support, phone support, parts availability?

Good luck but my choice is Bosch. I have 38+ years as a Master Plumber.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

Bosch here aswell i've been a service provider since 1999... very reliable and easy to service


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## Hoozycoozy (Apr 26, 2011)

I like Bosch for tankless, but I prefer tank heaters. The ones I've put in, the h/o hates them... They don't like waiting that long for hot water, and I don't know anyone who has recouped the cost of one. IMO a well insulated tank heater on a circulating line can't be beat by a tankless, when you factor in initial cost, operating cost and efficiency.

I like Bradford White where I work we use Lochinvar.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

superplumber_mi said:


> Back in 1980 I installed Paloma water heaters, now the owners of Rheem. They are from Japan and on of the very first on the market. A good product but the service manual was printed in Japanese. I learned how to service and sell them and was very successful.
> 
> A supplier asked me to look at Rinnai and Bosch. The Bosch is very serviceable, reliable and has a lot of built in features. We do solar thermal and the Bosch is programmed to recognize warm water and will temper it to the temperature that the heater is set at.
> 
> ...





Plumbworker said:


> *Bosch* here aswell i've been a service provider since 1999... very reliable and easy to service





Hoozycoozy said:


> *I like Bosch* for tankless, but I prefer tank heaters. The ones I've put in, the h/o hates them... They don't like waiting that long for hot water, and I don't know anyone who has recouped the cost of one. IMO a well insulated tank heater on a circulating line can't be beat by a tankless, when you factor in initial cost, operating cost and efficiency.
> 
> I like Bradford White where I work we use Lochinvar.



:blink:


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

Bosch *PRO *series for me. If your gonna service the unit Bosch is the way to go ,very service guy friendly. Bosch Pro is available only thru professionals. 

wookie


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

Just explain to the HO the time it takes to get the parts when it goes down can vary from next evening to next week. So far rinnai has a week long shipping scheme 12 times now. Bosch is a second day thing 4 times. rheem is 4 days once. takagai is next day to a week a few times this year. And what the hell is a Baxi just couldn't find anything anywhere rip it out and put in a combi. Nothing beats a tank, until this ICON poop came out so I don't know a dam thing anymore.


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

PlumberDave said:


> Just explain to the HO the time it takes to get the parts when it goes down can vary from next evening to next week. So far rinnai has a week long shipping scheme 12 times now. Bosch is a second day thing 4 times. rheem is 4 days once. takagai is next day to a week a few times this year. And what the hell is a Baxi just couldn't find anything anywhere rip it out and put in a combi. Nothing beats a tank, until this ICON poop came out so I don't know a dam thing anymore.


I hear you! I actually talk more people out of tankless than into. Just have to give them the big picture. Fortunately i'm a 1/2 hr drive from the showroom/parts warehouse of Bosch, Takagi and Noritz My Bosch rep is always availble and very knowledgable. I'm no sevice expert but my limited exposure on servicing the big 4 is Bosch Pro all the way....so easy to get inside and work on, lots of room. 

If tankless is properly installed and customer has been edumicated:thumbsup: usually everything is golden. 



wookie


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Here is my Tankless wh....The only one I plan on having....:whistling2:


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

At the end of the day,people want what they want.I too, talk more people *out* of a tankless than into with facts and $$.More technology is more to go wrong on Christmas eve when you have the entire family staying with you!
Honesty in the facts.When they have heard and know as much as I can tell them and they still want a tankless..Done.
See you soon to delime the unit!


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

wookie said:


> Bosch *PRO *series for me. If your gonna service the unit Bosch is the way to go ,very service guy friendly. Bosch Pro is available only thru professionals.
> 
> wookie


I install the pro series as well.. but honstly the only difference in the retail version is the warranty.. the pro is also endorsed by the phcc not like that means anything though..:laughing:


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## Radium (Dec 25, 2010)

I used to live for navien, until I got my last labour check for maintenance. On one unit I changed the 3way valve, and another unit changed the aps gps flow sensor, circuit board, gas pipe sizes, got the utility company to confirm cfh, and finally switched out the unit. All that work for 325 dollars. Now I've switched to rinnai.


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## DJenek (May 4, 2011)

I prefer either Bosch or Takagi


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## PlumbPowerHouse (Jan 5, 2010)

We like the Rinnai units. We get no complaints and customers know and trust the name. It's easy to sell.


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## Tatertot (Apr 8, 2011)

Most of our homes have recirc systems in them.For these installs we use the Navien 240a series for the simple fact they have buffer tank and pump built in the unit.So theres no warranty issues like with the rinnai.And the venting is less expensive since you can use sch 40 pvc.


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## Tatertot (Apr 8, 2011)

I am not slamming the Rinnai's they are good heaters as well just depends on the appication.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I think this to be the best of all water heaters.....


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Rhinnai (sp?) it's the easiest install


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Rhinnai (sp?) it's the easiest install


Curious, how is a Rinnai tankless install easier than any of the others?

Thanks,

wookie


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> I think this to be the best of all water heaters.....


You heat water with one of those?:laughing:

Never did that myself but I did put some kind of fermented liquid in one once...:laughing:


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## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

I prefer the Eternal units myself. Easy to install, easy to work on, and from my experience very reliable, but it's still early to tell. Of the over 100 units we've installed so far, not one problem with any of the units. We gave gotten a few warranty calls on workmanship related issues or installation errors, but every single unit has been solid


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

wookie said:


> Curious, how is a Rinnai tankless install easier than any of the others?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> wookie


I think it has the easiest vent installation, PVC pipe with rubber joints, simplenand fast


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## longplumb (Nov 15, 2009)

We install Rinnai's. Sizing is very important. I have seen to many in track housing around here that they threw the cheapest and smallest unit in. Our water has about 27 grains of hardness here, so we pretty much tell the customer that we will not put one in unless they have a water softener in and that it is working properly. They are just like anything else, they need to be installed properly and maintained right. We also offer a contract to flush these at least once a year. Most customers crap there pants when we tell them what it will cost to install one. Most of ours we have to resize the gas line because of the BTU rating. I just installed one in my house about 4 months ago and love it!!


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## DJenek (May 4, 2011)

Does anyone work with Steibel Eltron heaters?

http://www.pexuniverse.com/store/category/stiebel-eltron-tankless-water-heaters


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

I've installed a few, never serviced one. They seem to last longer than the others for point of use...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

DJenek said:


> Does anyone work with Steibel Eltron heaters?
> 
> http://www.pexuniverse.com/store/category/stiebel-eltron-tankless-water-heaters


Of all the electric tankless units made Stiebel Eltron is probably the best of them...

That said I hope you aren't considering them for anything more than a point of use tankless up here... They definitely won't cut it as a whole house unit in Yankee territory...:no:


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## Surfing Plumber (Sep 27, 2011)

I have installed all brands before and at the end I am installing NORITZ. 

Noritz has the best support service, more reliable internal components (K copper heat exchanger and the condensing NRC111 comes with built-in neutralizer) and easiest to install venting system (adjustable pieces)....

The new condensing 94% condensing line ups, NRC series now use 3" PVC and you can run up to 60+ feet!!! 

Navien has a buffer tank inside their units because it can't maintain a stable start up temperature, it is just gimick to lure you into buying their products. I was lured in before but now I learned that they are not as reliable. 

Rinnai are great units but their venting is way too expensive!! And its polypropelene material (which is cheap!) but they charge up the wazzoo for venting...

Eternal is just too big in size and way too expensive for the unit, it doesn't make any sense to install an Eternal. 

Takagi is just okay...nothing special about them, but when you have problems with their products, good luck getting parts ship out to you...


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## TanklessJoe (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm going to have to say Noritz for this one, I believe they currently hold the largest market share in the world..


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## Flyguy199 (Sep 20, 2011)

I use the Bosch Pro series.....no major problems so far. had to order parts once and they came in pretty fast.


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## ServicePlumber (Nov 13, 2011)

My favorite two tankless units are Takagi and navien. We used to install noritz, but out of every ten we pit in we probably had issues with two of them. I domt know if it was just freak occurrences, but that's just how it was. Never had a problem with Takagi. Had to change flow sensor on navien once but that's it


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## superplumber_mi (Feb 6, 2011)

*Tankless water heater on recirculating loop.*

What is the best way to pipe and control a recirculating loop with a tankless water heater?


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## joulian (Dec 9, 2011)

How abt titan?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

joulian said:


> How abt titan?


:laughing::laughing::laughing::whistling2:

Yeah man, go for it.


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## Mxz--700 (Jul 8, 2011)

The newer Naviens are great. We put the older ones in and had problems and had to replace circuit boards ect. free of charge from navien, but the last @ years they are solid. I put one in my own home as a alternative to my indirect oil fired and absolutely love it. Having it in my own home i can actually see how ridiculously efficient this thing is. so far problem free 8 months and 5 people who use LOTS of HW. I'll update if there is a problem. I have seen numerous Takagi problems with holes in coils so I am a little partial to SS units...


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Airgap said:


> Here is my Tankless wh....The only one I plan on having....:whistling2:
> 
> <img src="http://www.plumbingzone.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9832"/>


How good is a heat exchanger for domestic h/w?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

joulian said:


> How abt titan?


:blink:

The best money can buy.... :thumbup:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumbnew said:


> which brand one is better?


Isn't that like asking which brand of buttermilk tastes better? :laughing:


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## Joseph clegg (Nov 12, 2011)

I like navien had a customer with an eternal tankless nothing but issues stay away from eternal


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## studmaster1 (Dec 10, 2011)

I like Navien units. They are 98% efficient, and vent in pvc. Stainless steel heat exchanger helps prolong life of unit and requires less maint.. I've only installed 1 rinnai unit and that didn't vent in pvc.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Lmp said:


> How good is a heat exchanger for domestic h/w?


Sorry, just saw this post. I have an outdoor wood boiler with a water to air for heat, and a 20 plate water to water for domestic...

The plate ex. is inline on the hot outlet of my tank wh. It works as an instantaneous when I have the owb running....

My post was more about how I don't like tankless, than it was about plate exchangers....


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

DJenek said:


> Does anyone work with Steibel Eltron heaters?
> 
> http://www.pexuniverse.com/store/category/stiebel-eltron-tankless-water-heaters


I sized one for a house it required 3 - 60 amp breakers to run the darm thing!

Needed a 200 amp panel just for the water heater


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Plumb Bob said:


> I sized one for a house it required 3 - 60 amp breakers to run the darm thing!
> 
> Needed a 200 amp panel just for the water heater


I'm not a fan of electric tanklesses what so ever. They suck period. The start-up load stresses the electrical equipment in the building, and they have problems overcoming high temp rises.


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