# Video: Ride along with me on a slab leak.



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Because you ARE actually that bored


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

What's your opinion on E-Pipe in a case like that to avoid future leaks?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Why do you switch to threaded adapters instead of going straight from copper to PEX?


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

So you are saying the reason you guys in Florida have so many copper pipe failures is due to internal flux corrosion. In other words the plumbers that built the homes have poor soldering skills.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

" I heard something on the Golden Girls the other day , Oh H E double hockey sticks "

What a sweet women


ill finish the vid later PT, no time now, gotta fly


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

The leak was above the slab. Why did the floor have to be broken?


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I think he wanted to get past where the flux would have run down to....

Not sure though....


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Truthfully? I let my stock run out on pex by sweat adapters :laughing:.

I know, I slacked :sweatdrop:



Redwood said:


> Why do you switch to threaded adapters instead of going straight from copper to PEX?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't know if you watched the second video or not but...

The leak was about an inch above slab line. Since we know it was causing by flux running down the pipe (like it always is), we know that there is a bunch of flux on the inside of that leak. Why would I cut into the middle of an already damaged section of pipe? The homeowner already had a flood and is having to replace flooring and wall board. He would be pissed if he got a leak an inch away from where I patched the pipe 6 months later and re-flooded his house in the same spot. I know this because it happens every day here. You have to look at the whole picture. That is what separates a professional service tech from a "repair man".

What I did wasn't even a real fix. He is STILL going to get repeated leaks because that flux is at every manifold in the house. At least the next one won't be right where I repaired it though. The real fix is to repipe the house. He didn't want to do that and unlike some contractors in southern California :whistling2:, I'm not going to make a homeowner do something they don't want to do, even if they are stupid for not doing it. IT'S THEIR HOUSE NOT MINE.



Associated Plum said:


> The leak was above the slab. Why did the floor have to be broken?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> What's your opinion on E-Pipe in a case like that to avoid future leaks?


The first problem with epoxy lining is that it costs as much or more than a pex repipe in most cases.

The second problem is that it can actually cause leaks during the pipe cleaning process before the epoxy is injected. 

The 3rd problem is that the epoxy will de-laminate from the pipe if someone unwittingly solders onto it later on. This could potentially turn into a nightmare scenario where you have trapped pieces of epoxy under the slab that are virtually un-locatable in soft copper systems.

Also, I'm not convinced that the epoxy won't start flaking off in areas of the system where the pipes were not cleaned properly. There is no way to know for sure that the pipes have all been cleaned properly as you cannot inspect them like you can with drain pipes.

In a nut shell, it's a very expensive gamble.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

It is a very good practice here in Florida to remove and repalce at least 18 inches of compromised copper tubing with any copper leak. Bellow slab or above ground.

Good job Pro


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Protech said:


> The first problem with epoxy lining is that it costs as much or more than a pex repipe in most cases.
> 
> The second problem is that it can actually cause leaks during the pipe cleaning process before the epoxy is injected.
> 
> The 3rd problem is that the epoxy will de-laminate from the pipe if someone unwittingly solders onto it later on. This could potentially turn into a nightmare scenario where you have trapped pieces of epoxy under the slab that are virtually un-locatable in soft copper systems.


 A 4th problem is it limits your remodel path.

The epoxy doesn't always adhere to the tubing like it is suppose to.

I've seen instances when fittings are cut in after the fact where the water travels behind the lining and migrates to the pinhole leaks that were supposedly repaired during the lining process.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank you PT for the thorough response. Some of the objections are the same ones that I have with the system. Nice to add a few more to the arsenal when a customer brings it up because they heard a commercial advertising the great benefits.


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

Nice video....

quick questions ,

what is your local code for sweating copper under the slab ?

does it have to be silver brazed ?

also, do the pex and or adapters require sleeving before being reburied..?
thanks..
and again 
nice video
:thumbup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

HOMER said:


> Nice video....
> 
> quick questions ,
> 
> ...


Soft solder is fine. Pex must be sleeved through concrete.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Towards the end of the video I hear the homeowner say a number, I assume it was the cost of the job. What pray tell was the ball park on that work? I know this is an old video but it got me curious.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Protech said:


> Truthfully? I let my stock run out on pex by sweat adapters :laughing:.
> 
> I know, I slacked :sweatdrop:


Shiot happens :laughing:

I was just scratching my head wondering if there was a reason...


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Looks good to me. I would of done same thing!


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Protech said:


> The first problem with epoxy lining is that it costs as much or more than a pex repipe in most cases.
> 
> The second problem is that it can actually cause leaks during the pipe cleaning process before the epoxy is injected.
> 
> ...


One of my customers got a leaking 1/2" underground copper kitchen line epoxy lined (by someone else - I was too busy to look at it). After the repair the flow on the repaired line was so pathetic that they ended up taking the floor out and replacing both lines all the way to the sink.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Protech...realty tv show*



Protech said:


> Because you ARE actually that bored
> 
> ‪slab leak in lakeland florida‬‏ - YouTube
> 
> ‪slab leak in lakeland florida‬‏ - YouTube


 
Its gotta happen some day.... 

A REALITY SHOW ABOUT PLUMBERS

they already have a bunch of drunk losers hauling junk and trash on TV in New York City....

they got two Pawn shop shows going on..

got a couple of abandoned storage unit war shows going....

they got a bunch of slutty rich *****es in new jersey having cat fights with each other:laughing::laughing:


So PROTECH who is gonna be the first reality star for 
our *action packed* professioin???:laughing::laughing::yes::yes:

I am thinking of DUNBAR... cause he is on the mend and he already has a few u-tube videos....

Now we got to think of a few good catchey names

Sewer Stars.

Texas Turd Herders....??

Rambo Rooters??

toilet avengers??
PLUMBERS OF NEW YORK CITY??


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

My son and I could do the "Swamp Plumber" episode.

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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*that one scares me*



SlickRick said:


> My son and I could do the "Swamp Plumber" episode.
> 
> [URL="http://
> 
> ...


 
that pretty nasty.... they only call you when the stink gets so bad from
under the shanty that they can finally smell it over the stink of their own body odor
and the smell from the cat litter and dog droppings in the home...:blink:


I have done my fair share of mobile homes, 
and wont go out on them any more....


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

This one has had multiple water leaks on PE. They are having new siding put on and a deck built. The material is on site. Next they will repipe the water.:laughing:

5 min. , a SB tee, $150.00 and we are outa there until the next one.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Nice job PT. I thought it odd the previous plumbers could not find the leak. That one was probably audible. Nice repair.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> A 4th problem is it limits your remodel path.
> 
> The epoxy doesn't always adhere to the tubing like it is suppose to.
> 
> I've seen instances when fittings are cut in after the fact where the water travels behind the lining and migrates to the pinhole leaks that were supposedly repaired during the lining process.


 
add one more problem typically they cannot fill air chambers made of copper inside the wall. Here you could use 18 inches of 1/2 inch pipe or 12 inches of 3/4 for air chambers.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> add one more problem typically they cannot fill air chambers made of copper inside the wall. Here you could use 18 inches of 1/2 inch pipe or 12 inches of 3/4 for air chambers.


 Air chambers are old school.

Nobody installs those anymore.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

yeah, but you don't epoxy coat new buildings, you do it to old ones.



Widdershins said:


> Air chambers are old school.
> 
> Nobody installs those anymore.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Protech said:


> yeah, but you don't epoxy coat new buildings, you do it to old ones.


 Where the red white and blue fuque did that nugget of wisdom come from?

Seriously.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Where the red white and blue fuque did that nugget of wisdom come from?
> 
> Seriously.


My point is that most old buildings that one would coat would also have air chambers.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Protech said:


> My point is that most old buildings that one would coat would also have air chambers.


 That actually makes less sense.

No worries, though, I've already moved on.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)




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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Plumber Jim said:


>


I like how he floods their basement in episode 4 trying to open a main drain :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Protech said:


> I like how he floods their basement in episode 4 trying to open a main drain :laughing:


Yea that was a good one... :laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Protech said:


> Soft solder is fine. Pex must be sleeved through concrete.


 




Despite some inspectors permitting soft soldered joints under a slab, our code requires copper fittings in a repair below a slab to be silver soldered (brazed).

The fact that some inspectors allow it means they either don't know their code or they don't care.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Our code also requires a vacuum breaker on the cold inlet of water heaters in 99% of homes. How many do you see on a regular basis. Code enforcement in Florida is a joke. If you think I'm going to braze on a slab leak repair that and inspector is never going to see and would pass even if he did see because he doesn't know his own code, on a house that needs to repiped anyway, you are outta your mind. I have a tough enough time convincing a home owner to repair the pipe all the way across the flux damaged area with actual soldered connections and not a sharkbite or hose clamp. There is no way they are paying for a soft copper brazed in section just to satisfy some obscure code that no one enforces. Also, I do not believe that code applies to existig structures as it is in the "residential" construction code book which mean it applies to new structures only......not that it really matters at the end of the day.



Tommy plumber said:


> Despite some inspectors permitting soft soldered joints under a slab, our code requires copper fittings in a repair below a slab to be silver soldered (brazed).
> 
> The fact that some inspectors allow it means they either don't know their code or they don't care.


Some? I think you mean most. As in 95% or more.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Yea that was a good one... :laughing:
> 
> ‪American Plumber Ep. 4‬‏ - YouTube


That's just sad poor old guy he didn't even figure out y the line filled up. Supposibly no one was there right. I have never worked on a drain like that in a basement, he couldn't. Pull the toilet and run snake from ther?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

revenge said:


> That's just sad poor old guy he didn't even figure out y the line filled up. Supposibly no one was there right. I have never worked on a drain like that in a basement, he couldn't. Pull the toilet and run snake from ther?


Or a roof vent, or install a yard cleanout, or jet it from the city manhole or.....anything other than what he did :laughing:


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

That just looked more dramatic for TV I am guessing. or he just likes to make a mess. If you look at him augering the toilet in the first episode, He has water running down the back of the toilet all over the place. lol


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Plumber Jim said:


> That just looked more dramatic for TV I am guessing. or he just likes to make a mess. If you look at him augering the toilet in the first episode, He has water running down the back of the toilet all over the place. lol


 "I'm 90 years old, for Christs Sake".

I love that bit.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

That home had a house trap that was plugged up.

Generally you are not going to open a clogged house trap from any distance away like a pulled toilet or roof vent.

In most cases it is as simple as opening the cap on the outlet side of the trap and going backwards through the trap with a cable and a 3" cutter to open it right up nicely and clean it well...

The picture of a house trap below shows the cable going into the line and not the trap but should suffice for those of you that haven't seen one before...










Other ways of opening and draining without making a mess would be to cable through the house trap vent which will be either right on top of the inlet or, into the line within a couple feet of the inlet to the trap.

I don't make messes like that and he shouldn't have...
Also the clean it with a toilet auger is a sure fire way to be back soon, but it is quick and easy....

How well do you think a toilet auger would clean out a 4" house trap? :laughing:

I myself use a 11/16" cable and a 3" round blade which crapes it quite nicely and then after it all goes out I shop vac out whatever debris was too heavy to flow out....


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Protech said:


> Our code also requires a vacuum breaker on the cold inlet of water heaters in 99% of homes. How many do you see on a regular basis. Code enforcement in Florida is a joke. If you think I'm going to braze on a slab leak repair that and inspector is never going to see and would pass even if he did see because he doesn't know his own code, on a house that needs to repiped anyway, you are outta your mind. I have a tough enough time convincing a home owner to repair the pipe all the way across the flux damaged area with actual soldered connections and not a sharkbite or hose clamp. There is no way they are paying for a soft copper brazed in section just to satisfy some obscure code that no one enforces. Also, I do not believe that code applies to existig structures as it is in the "residential" construction code book which mean it applies to new structures only......not that it really matters at the end of the day.
> 
> Some? I think you mean most. As in 95% or more.


He was just making a point... It is code and the right job.
I agree cut corners where you can, but relax there buddy boy.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

NYC Plumber said:


> He was just making a point... It is code and the right job.
> I agree cut corners where you can, but relax there buddy boy.


 




Correct. I was merely pointing out what our code says. I have brazed and soft-soldered copper repairs. Once while chipping through a slab to remove a drain line for a bidet, I accidentally broke a copper water line. I soft-soldered the repair, but if you want to be technical, it's supposed to be brazed per our code, P2904.14. I think Protech is just playing Devil's advocate...:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Print is too small to read in the page I scanned, but it's there. It's under section "Underground Joints" starting at bottom of left-hand column and continues on top of right-hand column.


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## plumjoe (Oct 21, 2009)

Have we not already had this argument? To braze or not to braze? Pro’s and con's despite code. I still braze under the slab, because I get most of my slab leaks inspected, but I understand the argument not to.


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