# Gas meters ?



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Why the post? From the Morning Call today ...
Allentown Mayor Ed Pawlowski wants the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission back in Allentown to discuss its recommendations for outdoor gas meter placement before UGI moves the spider-like pipes and boxy, plastic meters into the city's historic neighborhoods.
As a safety measure, the natural gas company has been installing the meters on some city streets since 2009, when gas lines switched from cast-iron low-pressure lines — the kind thought to have caused a massive explosion in Allentown in February that killed five people — to plastic medium-pressure lines.
But residents said without statistics proving that outdoor meters are safer than those indoors, there's no reason to blight the city's neighborhoods, especially not historic areas.

Although the commission's chief gas safety officer said last October a proposed rule change was coming in the "near future," Pawlowski wrote, "there has been no follow-up action with our residents."
But his strongly worded letter seems to have changed that.
Spokespeople for the city and the commission both said Tuesday another meeting is imminent.
On top of the long-awaited discussion, J. Michael Love, UGI's vice president of government affairs, said he expects the PUC's official position on meter placement to be released this month.
The utility that serves 45,000 customers in the Lehigh Valley will continue to install outdoors meters and regulators for new customers and those undergoing replacement work, because that's what PUC has preferred, Love said.
In 2010, UGI installed 2,300 natural gas services, including new customers and households that had meters moved because of gas main replacement service.
The outside feature is safer and more convenient for homeowners, allowing UGI easier access for inspections, said UGI spokesman Daniel Adamo. It also minimizes the potential for customers to tamper and illegally bypass natural gas meters, which creates a serious safety risk, Adamo said.
The historic district has so far been spared installation of the outside meters. But as the process drags on, homeowners like Gregory Shamp, who has poured tens of thousands of dollars into restoring his 19th-century Eighth Street home, eagerly wait to comment on the new regulations.
"It's totally irresponsible not to consider the fact this will have a fiduciary effect on homeowners," Shamp said. 
The meters will hurt the overall look of the historic district and damage resale values, he said.
In Old Allentown, outdoor meters would mean a large meter every 20 to 30 feet along the street within four feet of the sidewalk, resident Edward Morrison said.
That change would prove to be more convenient for the utility company but not necessarily safer, because gas meters will now face outdoor hazards, such as weather, Morrison said.
Right now, both state and federal building code regulations say meters can be placed indoors, he said.
"And we can't do anything about it until it's officially proposed," he said.

Before I write a letter to the newspaper and CC: to the mayor your
opinions please. NFPA-54 shows only the hanging and protection of a gas meter. Yet on new contsruction. and new gas installation the meters have [for at least the last 30 years been outside]. The saftey factor being that gas would would enter the struture above the grade line. A underground leak traveling along the gas service would have to go the atmosphere prior to entering the building, plus a fire dept. could shut off the gas if needed -- outside. As to gas service replacement if the meter was inside it stayed inside. (this is the reason for the article] It seems that the Mayor has twisted kunos IMHO!


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Most bureaucrats don't consider anything "proven" unless they have a body count attached.

So...it won't be deemed safer by the mayor or the historical boneheads until there is a death or two in a historical house.

If they want to keep the house as it was built in the seventeenth century, then maybe they should give up their public utilities and go pack to heating their water on a stove. Then the house would look much better and they wouldn't have to bother with all these inconvenient safety concerns.

BUT...if you want a house with modern conveniences, you might just have to have a little safety mixed in.

Go get 'em Mr. Bill.


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

I think its silly most of our gas meters are in the basement protected from the elements and cars backing in to them also its not practical at all when you have a multi family and limited frontage 
Also we have gas curb valves so FDNY can shut the gas if necessary I just don't see the need for making them move their meters


----------



## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

I belive it has more to do with the utility being responsible for the piping up to and including the meter. They don't want to come into the property. Also it is easier to steal gas in the privacy of your own basement. They have been installing outside meters here for the past several years for new services, but historic properties are exempt


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

gladerunner said:


> I belive it has more to do with the utility being responsible for the piping up to and including the meter. They don't want to come into the property. Also it is easier to steal gas in the privacy of your own basement. They have been installing outside meters here for the past several years for new services, but historic properties are exempt


Here the gas company is responsible for the main into the building including main gas cock and installing the new meter but we install the meter bar and manifold 

By having the gas company enter your basement they will see if your stealing gas besides vandalism is a more serious problem or your pissed off neighbor shuts your gas or steals your meter on a cold winter night 

Some new construction were getting permission for exterior install it must be galvanized (I see so many rusted black pipe I don't know how they allowed it) and have barrier to protect from vehicles, it looks like fecal matter 

I can't picture this being done en mass in a large city or really any size city and if it was really a big hazard it would be more so in a densely populated area the only reason some new construction did it was to gain square footage not for safety reasons, I think they are just using fear to obtain their agenda because it takes more man hours to gain access to meters in the basements and switching to remote read meters would cost them a fortune to upgrade


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

All meters are outside here in Florida. Gas, water and electrical.


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Can you imagine this in front of every building


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

And thats only half in this building


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm think we were talking non-highrise.

Oh course highrises would need a mechanical room and that would be the logical place to put meters and sub meters.


----------



## incarnatopnh (Feb 1, 2011)

In upstate ny, NYSEG and National Grid always relocate the meter outside when replacing a service. You don't get a choice and people don't complain. Most homeowners are happy to have it outside. Accurate readings without letting someone into your house or letting the utility have a key to your house. Seems like a no brainer to me. Don't like the look? Puts some shrubs around it.


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Not a high rise just a 6 story apt building one of many 
Also we have a lot of fully attached residential that has no available space its not about shrubbery 
Claiming its some major hazard is my only real issue


----------



## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

I fail to see the problem, all meters are outside down here. Beats the hell out of a gas meter washer or regulator going bad and leaking gas into your house...


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> I fail to see the problem, all meters are outside down here. Beats the hell out of a gas meter washer or regulator going bad and leaking gas into your house...


Regulaters vent to the outside and meter washers don't go bad indoors I've never had a single call for washers going bad however if someone reset the meter and reused an old washer and didn't make a good seal fine but were talking about its general nature being dangerous and I've never seen a washer go bad never must be an outdoor problem 

We have some buildings where the meters are located in the individual apartments they should just shoot themselves because they live in a bomb 
A gas line is more likely to leak at a stove should we all cook outside 

Like I said I could care less I will put a meter wherever its approved its just the scare tactics pi** me off


----------



## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> Regulaters vent to the outside and meter washers don't go bad indoors I've never had a single call for washers going bad however if someone reset the meter and reused an old washer and didn't make a good seal fine but were talking about its general nature being dangerous and I've never seen a washer go bad never must be an outdoor problem
> 
> We have some buildings where the meters are located in the individual apartments they should just shoot themselves because they live in a bomb
> A gas line is more likely to leak at a stove should we all cook outside
> ...


And you've never seen a regulator go bad somewhere other than the vent? I don't care where they go either, just don't see the big fuss on having them outside.


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Just can't see it with so many people and so little space


----------



## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

Around here (north Texas) they are all outside. Either along the alley for rear entry, or against the house if there isn't an alley

Don't see what the big deal is homestly


----------



## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> Just can't see it with so many people and so little space


I agree brooklyn, just not practical by us. There litterally is no place to put them in some areas.
Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

In rural areas here you are lucky if the utility company puts the meter any where close to the house. I have seen them at over 300ft from it.

Most commercial building around here have them right up to the building outside.


----------



## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Wow 300' is far, whats the reason?


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

NYC Plumber said:


> Wow 300' is far, whats the reason?


Less up keep on their part, they will bury a line to the house if you are willing to pay for it.

In that 300' if a leak springs up, and you call them, they shut off and lock the meter then tell you to call a plumber.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> Just can't see it with so many people and so little space


That's probably the biggest difference. 

It is very difficult for most of us to imagine the infrastructure needed to accommodate the mass of people you have in one area. Age of the area probably plays into it as well.

Persons per square mile (2000 census):

Oklahoma City - 834
New Orleans - 2,684
Dallas - 3,470
Albany - 4,474
Los Angeles - 7,877
Washington D.C. - 9,317
Miami - 10,161
Chicago - 12,751


*Queens - 20,416
**Bronx - 31,730*
*Brooklyn - 34,920
Manhattan - 66,835

*
It's a different world. After being there, I was able to better understand why the codes and rules we hold as infallible don't always apply in every city.


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> That's probably the biggest difference.
> 
> It is very difficult for most of us to imagine the infrastructure needed to accommodate the mass of people you have in one area. Age of the area probably plays into it as well.
> 
> ...


I like how you left out staten island


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> I like how you left out staten island


But that isn't worth mentioning...
It is the least populated area of NYC with a population density equal to Los Angeles....:laughing:

7,587.9 people per sq mile....

Not very impressive compared to the other boroughs....:laughing:


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> I like how you left out staten island


Yep. Not by accident either. Didn't seem to fit with the point of the discussion. It too is a different kinda place.
















They do have a few cool boats though.


----------



## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Yep. Not by accident either. Didn't seem to fit with the point of the discussion. It too is a different kinda place.
> 
> They do have a few cool boats though.


Yeah when they are not crashing into the docks....


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

NYC Plumber said:


> Yeah when they are not crashing into the docks....


Haha


----------

