# officially done with diamond seal



## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

officially done with diamond seal, for kitchen. can't stand them. been putting up with them because can't stand anything else. however, going to switch to moen chateau or moen 8707 commercial, and see if i can stand it. if not, then kohler i guess. American Standard and price pfister, not a chance.

price pfister kitchen pullout: aerator is not removeable, nor is the hose. most incredible thing i've ever seen.

what a bunch of crap--the whole kitchen faucet industry.


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## HP plumber (Sep 4, 2013)

Agree to agree when a customer asks for a faucet referral i cringe usually refer Moen cuz they are easy to fix but it seems all manufacturers have there flaws. Kohler seems nice heavy bodied but still not sure what is a good faucet.


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## matkg (Mar 3, 2013)

Kohler isn't bad pricey though 550 for a white pull out kitchen faucet


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## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

i actually have kohler for my own kitchen faucet and i have no complaints with it. 3 years, no leaks, no drips, very smooth cartridge. but problem with kohler seems to be that jerking handle back breaks the cartridge easily. apparently happens commonly with kohler, whereas not a problem with moen and delta and the others. too much leverage, i guess. i haven't had that problem myself but don't need customers having that problem. i hate kohler T/S, and i hate kohler 2H lav--can't remove cartridge without putting backup on the valve body underneath; often have to remove whole valve body and then reinstall. retainer nut like delta/moen is superior. but kohler kitchen, ok, if didn't have cartridge-breaking problem.

if commercial moen solves my regular non-pullout kitchen faucet problem, i still hate ALL pullouts--i hate that they loosen up, stop swiveling, leak at head-hose connection. Delta seems to have solved the swivel problem and they seem to have the best hose-head connection, but still cant stand Delta diamond seal series. and the Delta foundations series--no thank you. Delta squandered a pretty good name. couldn't just go lead free brass. had to go plastic.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

What problems are you have with delta?


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

I personally have a Delta Diamond Tech for three years without issue. Installed a bunch of them to with not one call back. I have had factory defect call backs on Moen & American Standard KS Faucets though.


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## Bigwrenchjosh (Aug 22, 2011)

I've had an older Brizo (Delta) touch at my place for 2+ years and can't complain. And I know at least one model of pull out Moen now also does not have a removable aerator. I even called tech support to confirm. There is a removable screen in the head, but the aerator (and flow restricter) are not removable. 

I have to agree on cringing on what to recommend. Moen used to be an easy one. Not so much anymore.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

I recommend Delta and only Delta faucets now. Especially with the decline in Kohler's quality, but most importantly for the availability of parts.


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## HP plumber (Sep 4, 2013)

Gryphon what do u think of the touch faucet wish they had an option to plug in with dc converter. Sometimes the metal clip builds up corrosion and makes a poor contact I wonder if that would be avoided with stronger voltage. Also wish battery pack came with eye hole to mount on wall delta has flaws too in my opinion.


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## HP plumber (Sep 4, 2013)

Also had delta touch faucet deck plate plastic clips that come up into spout to keep everything aligned break off I think for the kind of money they are charging for that faucet it would come with something more substantial like brass not my first choice. Shower valves seem decent never seen a diamond seal cartridge leak though.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

HP plumber said:


> Gryphon what do u think of the touch faucet wish they had an option to plug in with dc converter. Sometimes the metal clip builds up corrosion and makes a poor contact I wonder if that would be avoided with stronger voltage. Also wish battery pack came with eye hole to mount on wall delta has flaws too in my opinion.


Haven't had the pleasure of installing any of them. I want to, but no one has wanted to spend that type of dough. I even offered free installation for my insurance agent just so I could do a YouTube video, but he didn't go for it.


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## HP plumber (Sep 4, 2013)

I also had the solenoid not open properly and create low flow but was able to bypass that mechanism and the customer was so fed up he didn't want to call delta again and just used it without touch feature. I believe that would be fixed with a plug in feature maybe because I think they changed their design from c batteries to d batteries. I like to have customer supply those fancy things sometimes so I don't have to assume responsibility for repairs or recalls. I have only had to repair two so far maybe just random thing.


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## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

what do i not like about diamond seal? Bonnet nut seizes on—plastic breaks before nut comes off. The supplies push against all the stuff under the sink, making it sometimes infuriatingly hard to mount. Sometimes the supplies rub against the pullout hose, depending on the bend. When approaching final tightening of the bonnet nut, the whole cartridge turns with it such that the handle no longer points straight forward. The spout sometimes turns back from where I want it because of the tension of the vegetable sprayer hose. the base plate overlay wiggles around and customers shake their head. Not to mention that I don’t think ecobrass is too much to ask.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

klempner said:


> what do i not like about diamond seal? Bonnet nut seizes on—plastic breaks before nut comes off. The supplies push against all the stuff under the sink, making it sometimes infuriatingly hard to mount. Sometimes the supplies rub against the pullout hose, depending on the bend. When approaching final tightening of the bonnet nut, the whole cartridge turns with it such that the handle no longer points straight forward. The spout sometimes turns back from where I want it because of the tension of the vegetable sprayer hose. the base plate overlay wiggles around and customers shake their head. Not to mention that I don’t think ecobrass is too much to ask.


What model is that? You know you can cut the supplies right?


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## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

the pullout and the non pullout. i do know that i can cut the supplies, but i will not use compression sleeves on plastic, and depending on where the shutoff valves are, and how they are oriented, it may not prevent the supply rubbing the pullout hose. Even shorter supplies will often not mitigate against all the stuff below interfering when trying to mount the faucet. I also appreciate how depending on how the pex supply is coiled, it will try to turn the supply nut back counterclockwise.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. just sharing an opinion that might or might not prove useful, and might or might not elicit a response that helps change my mind. i appreciate your response. i have always been very pro-Delta. but four years in to the diamond seal, hate it.


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## piedpiper (Mar 28, 2011)

i will NEVER CUT THOSE SUPPLY LINES...ran in to 2 floods because of them popping.not sure if it was just a freak thing but still,it scared me in to never cutting them.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

piedpiper said:


> i will NEVER CUT THOSE SUPPLY LINES...ran in to 2 floods because of them popping.not sure if it was just a freak thing but still,it scared me in to never cutting them.


That is scary. Did they cut them & install the sleeves and ferrels correctly?


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Wolverine Brass !! Plumbers only ! 
They now have a 19" and a 14" pull down faucet in BN & Chrome . FANTASTIC ,! ( 14" is # 85033 BN ) 

I know we have discussed this very often on the Zone . WB has parts you can order as you order faucets, etc if you worry about getting stuck without any. 

They REALLY do have great stuff , great customer service and work hard ! 

My .02


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

I prefer a nice moen pull out faucet over anything. They install in under 5 minutes. Also very easy to repair


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