# pay rate



## PAplumberTyler (Feb 10, 2011)

Any one give me an idea on what a plumbers helper should make after 2 years of school and 4 years of on the job?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

If he's still just a "helper" after 2 years of school and 4 years on the job then it doesn't matter what the pay is, it's too much.

2 years school + 4 years on the job should = Pursuit of Journeyman License


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## MAC (Aug 19, 2008)

In mass. a few years ago you would be going for your journeyman's license:thumbsup:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

PAplumberTyler said:


> Any one give me an idea on what a plumbers helper should make after 2 years of school and 4 years of on the job?


 Do you have the hours needed to take your Journeyman's Test?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> If he's still just a "helper" after 2 years of school and 4 years on the job then it doesn't matter what the pay is, it's too much.
> 
> 2 years school + 4 years on the job should = Pursuit of Journeyman License


 That isn't always necessarily true in some areas of the country.

Some states require X amount of hours in Residential and X amount of hours in Commercial before you can sit for your test.

It's been kind of tough in this economy for some Apprentices to build up those required hours in a normal 4 year apprenticeship.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> That isn't always necessarily true in some areas of the country...


Sorry...didn't know that.

After 3 years here you can sit for the Journeyman exam.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

If I'm reading the law right here its based on master giving you a letter and a board review but on the books no hour (but no master would do that until he saw you fit)

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## luv2plumb (Apr 30, 2010)

Whatever a 4th year apprentice makes.....no matter how many years on the job if he is only an apprentice he shouldn't be paid as much as someone with their license. IMO


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## PAplumberTyler (Feb 10, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> That isn't always necessarily true in some areas of the country.
> 
> Some states require X amount of hours in Residential and X amount of hours in Commercial before you can sit for your test.
> 
> It's been kind of tough in this economy for some Apprentices to build up those required hours in a normal 4 year apprenticeship.


I live in pennsylvania in the county I live in everything goes the allegehny(pittsburgh). But u don't have to be a lisc3nsed plumber to work here. And my schooling is only vocational. To get a journeymen I would have to sit in class for 4 more years to take my journeymens test


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

That answer is gonna go over like a fat kid whining about the spilled soda ...


So if it's gonna take 4 more years , do it .

As far as the wadge is concerned .. In my area the rate wold be somewhere between 16 -22 bux per hour .



Lifer...


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## PAplumberTyler (Feb 10, 2011)

Lifer said:


> That answer is gonna go over like a fat kid whining about the spilled soda ...
> 
> So if it's gonna take 4 more years , do it .
> 
> ...


Thanks that's all I'm was askng I do plan on taking the schooling just waiting till I am finncially available its about an hour drive to the school. Anybody her take that class for allegehny county?


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## PAplumberTyler (Feb 10, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> If he's still just a "helper" after 2 years of school and 4 years on the job then it doesn't matter what the pay is, it's too much.
> 
> 2 years school + 4 years on the job should = Pursuit of Journeyman License


I am a helper for now in my company I switched company's a few months ago. I am still trying to prove to the boss I am able to do it. The last week I have been on my own so maybe he is starting to relize this


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

PAplumberTyler said:


> I am a helper...





PAplumberTyler said:


> ...I would have to sit in class for 4 more years to take my journeymens test...


I know this may seem like a small thing, but you are NOT a helper (I hope). You are an apprentice. A helper cleans my shovels and puts Armor All on the dash. An apprentice assists me on the installation of plumbing systems.

Apprentices in our area might get anywhere from $12-$17 per hour. Pay scale, benefits, uniforms, tools, etc. vary greatly from shop to shop.

Am I understanding correctly that in Pennsylvania, if you have 4 years on the job as an apprentice and 2 years in class, that you still have to go to school 4 more years to take the test to be a Journeyman? Geez, just go to med school.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

PAplumberTyler said:


> I am a helper for now in my company I switched company's a few months ago. I am still trying to prove to the boss I am able to do it. The last week I have been on my own so maybe he is starting to relize this


 



I started out digging ditches for $ 7.00 an hour. (The boss liked me; his partner wanted to pay me less.) Now I work for myself and love every minute of it.

Stick with it and get that journeyman's license.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Lifer said:


> As far as the wadge is concerned .. In my area the rate wold be somewhere between 16 -22 bux per hour .


 That's about what I would pay him.

If he was in school and doing well, I'd probably pay him 25 bucks an hour.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> That's about what I would pay him.
> 
> If he was in school and doing well, I'd probably pay him 25 bucks an hour.


Jesus, I should have moved to Washington instead of Texas....:laughing: What does a well rounded journeyman make where you are?


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

greenscoutII said:


> Jesus, I should have moved to Washington instead of Texas....:laughing: What does a well rounded journeyman make where you are?


 
I'm well round .. .lol I'm good at what i do , but live in a small town my boss bills out 53 bux per hour and I am currently getting 23 but have only been there 7 months so .. It will be going up in the spring when the work picks up, hopefully to 24.. 


Lifer...


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

greenscoutII said:


> Jesus, I should have moved to Washington instead of Texas....:laughing: What does a well rounded journeyman make where you are?


 I'm not sure what other shops pay, but the guy who has been with me the longest (22 years) makes $37.00 another who has been with me for 19 years makes $34.00.

Going to school and doing well in school would be absolutely key to the $25.00 per hour, though -- And if I felt he was earnest in seeing things through to graduation, I'd help him with his tuition.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

A fourth year apprentice in my local makes somewhere between 22 to 24/hour, which is a lot more than it used to be. Journeyperson rate is $33.89 right now, +10% vac pay, +pension + benefits. I'd say the hall charges over 40/hour for a fourth year all in.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Further to that, it seems as the apprenticeship program is very different depending on where you go. I have never worked outside of the union but the contract is as follows:

1st year = 40% of journeyperson rate.
2nd year =50%
3rd year =60%
4th year=70%
5th year=80%
Obtain C of Q = full rate.

One year equals 1800 hours on the job, and no overtime is counted...ever.

Apprenti are required to attend trade school 3 times over those 5 years, and it depends on when the ministry sends them an offer of classroom training and if the apprenti accepts.


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## rombo (Jul 17, 2008)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Further to that, it seems as the apprenticeship program is very different depending on where you go. I have never worked outside of the union but the contract is as follows:
> 
> 1st year = 40% of journeyperson rate.
> 2nd year =50%
> ...



What are union rates these days? ICI, res, highrise?
I hear many conflicting numbers when guys are talking at the supplier.


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## wundumguy (Apr 3, 2010)

UA 4th year Plumber Apprentice remuneration in this part of the continent:

Wages: $24.79
Vacation & Stat: $2.97
Pension: $3.38
Medical & Dental: $2.62

Total Year 4 Remuneration Package is $33.76

Plumber apprenticeship is 5 years.
School is mandatory or else no raise until caught up.


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## Turdherder (Feb 13, 2011)

In Indiana the rate is 14hr to 22hr..but it also depends on job skills .I've met journeyman that can't be foremans. I was a 3rd year apprentice running work....... And I was 24years old!I work commercial non union......


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

wundumguy said:


> UA 4th year Plumber Apprentice remuneration in this part of the continent:
> 
> Wages: $24.79
> Vacation & Stat: $2.97
> ...


Thank you for enlightening me WDG. I'm always interested to hear what the other locals are paying. Which part of the planet does that info come from?


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## PAplumberTyler (Feb 10, 2011)

I am currently making 10 an hour. I am more than capable doing service work and new rough ins by myself. I haven't had any one on one time with the boss and my plumber doesn't really inform my boss of anything. My plumber is off work for three weeks so I am hoping now that my boss starts to notice the work I am capable of


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

wundumguy said:


> UA 4th year Plumber Apprentice remuneration in this part of the continent:
> 
> Wages: $24.79
> Vacation & Stat: $2.97
> ...


So union apprenticeships are 5 years, non-union 4 years? (in BC?)


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

9000 hours (5 years) in Ontario. That is mandated/governed by the ministry. The union has no jurisdiction to alter anything like that.


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## wundumguy (Apr 3, 2010)

The BC Plumber apprenticeship is currently government mandated to be 6,420 hours. Or, over 4 years, that would be 1,605 per year. With holidays and school it is not the easiest, but it's an attainable number of hours per year. A BC apprentice completes the required hours and the 4 levels of technical training, passes the Red Seal exam and becomes a certified journeyman. The UA requires apprentices in BC to serve a 5th year as a Senior Apprentice before granting journeyman status, wages, and benefits. It's not as bad as it sounds though since the Senior Apprentice remuneration package is more than a 4th year apprentice... just not as much as a journeyman.

I'm guessing the reasons for a 5th year are that (1) most UA locals have a 5 year apprenticeship, and (2) most other states and provinces probably require more than 6,420 hours from an apprentice. Prior to January 2011, the BC government requirement for a Plumber apprentice was a mere 5,620 hours.


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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

I find it funny that in bc it's as low as just over 6000 hours... But there are 4 sets of school.... Meanwhile here in Ontario, it's 9000 hours and only 3 sets of school... BUT when it's all said in done, we are "equally" qualified... How that makes sense is beyond me... Not saying that the bc apprentices are less qualified, it just boggles my mind how ridiculous the Canadian government can be


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Plumber patt said:


> I find it funny that in bc it's as low as just over 6000 hours... But there are 4 sets of school.... Meanwhile here in Ontario, it's 9000 hours and only 3 sets of school... BUT when it's all said in done, we are "equally" qualified... How that makes sense is beyond me... Not saying that the bc apprentices are less qualified, it just boggles my mind how ridiculous the Canadian government can be


One set of school = 3000 hours?
How many hours is a set of school?

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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

Heck no! School is an 8 week program, taken 3 times and is a little over 350 hours credit each term to your apprenticeship and those hours are all included in the 9000


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumber patt said:


> I find it funny that in bc it's as low as just over 6000 hours... But there are 4 sets of school.... Meanwhile here in Ontario, it's 9000 hours and only 3 sets of school... BUT when it's all said in done, we are "equally" qualified... How that makes sense is beyond me... Not saying that the bc apprentices are less qualified, it just boggles my mind how ridiculous the Canadian government can be


I agree totally, red seal (inter-provincial) is good anywhere in Canada, therefore, shouldn't the curriculum/timeline be the same?

Again, not to say that one province's fresh journeyperson is better or more qualified as I do not know what the process is outside of my own world, but we should all be adhering to NPC, and the process should be identical...

$0.02


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Plumber patt said:


> Heck no! School is an 8 week program, taken 3 times and is a little over 350 hours credit each term to your apprenticeship and those hours are all included in the 9000


I think I'm not understanding are all people from bc just smarter and more mechanically inclined than other Canadians? And why didn't you just go to school there 

Sorry for my Yankee ignorance

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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> I agree totally, red seal (inter-provincial) is good anywhere in Canada, therefore, shouldn't the curriculum/timeline be the same?
> 
> Again, not to say that one province's fresh journeyperson is better or more qualified as I do not know what the process is outside of my own world, but we should all be adhering to NPC, and the process should be identical...
> 
> $0.02


I believe i read somewhere that you are from Toronto so you would also agree with how stupid it is that we spend our 5 years and all our school learning Ontario code, but write our exam in national code, which has over 300 differences (mr bludndell counted lol) and when we ask the government where to find the info they need they leave us hanging... BRUTAL!


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumber patt said:


> I believe i read somewhere that you are from Toronto so you would also agree with how stupid it is that we spend our 5 years and all our school learning Ontario code, but write our exam in national code, which has over 300 differences (mr bludndell counted lol) and when we ask the government where to find the info they need they leave us hanging... BRUTAL!


I am actually out of local 666, Niagara. But yes, I agree that is ridiculous.

I am sure you are referring to Ranier Blundel?


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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> I think I'm not understanding are all people from bc just smarter and more mechanically inclined than other Canadians? And why didn't you just go to school there
> 
> Sorry for my Yankee ignorance
> 
> Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


Not necessarily smarter, but different ministry, you see, in Canada every province has there own code and apprentice regulations, but when you write your certificate exam, you become licensed across the country, but as an Ontario apprentice, I can't go and work in Alberta or bc until I'm licensed, or else I have to re start an apprenticeship in that particular province, pretty stupid huh? You have over 10 different codes and regulations teaching apprentices across the nation, and expect them, to be all equally qualified after they pass their exam.... It's a well thought out system


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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> I am actually out of local 666, Niagara. But yes, I agree that is ridiculous.
> 
> I am sure you are referring to Ranier Blundel?


That I am, best teacher in Ontario, in my opinion, I had him basic, intermediate and advanced


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Local logo


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumber patt said:


> That I am, best teacher in Ontario, in my opinion, I had him basic, intermediate and advanced


I have heard of him, I had mike haslam, who sits on the board which produced obc.
Very intelligent , very strict man.


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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Local logo


I have been trying real hard to get into the 599 up here in Barrie, no one is hiring, they had to lay off a whack of apprenti, so they won't be looking for journeymen for a while I imagine


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumber patt said:


> I have been trying real hard to get into the 599 up here in Barrie, no one is hiring, they had to lay off a whack of apprenti, so they won't be looking for journeymen for a while I imagine


Come down to 666, talk to our BA, we are accepting new members. Once in, you can go out as a travel card to any local who has work. Sarnia is about to start a couple of shut downs, major cash.

PM me for more info


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

One of the best things about schooling in BC is the NPC was adopted from our old code, there is like 2 tables that are different between the two books. I did the test with my BC code book.
Working non-union the wages are spread quite a bit from 23/ hour to 45/ hour for 2 class "A" gas fitters doing service not new construction.


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## wundumguy (Apr 3, 2010)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> I think I'm not understanding are all people from bc just smarter and more mechanically inclined than other Canadians? And why didn't you just go to school there
> 
> Sorry for my Yankee ignorance
> 
> Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


This will make you laugh or maybe cry.

Ontario (from what the ON guys on this board say)

Apprentice Hours: 9,000
School is 3 x 8 = 24 weeks
Natural Gas and Propane is not covered in school.
Journeyman is not certified to work with Natural Gas or Propane.

British Columbia

Apprentice Hours: 6,420
School is (3 x 6) + (1 x 8) = 26 weeks
Natural Gas and Propane account for 6 weeks of school.
Journeyman is certified to work with both Natural Gas and Propane.

If we remove the 6 weeks dedicated to combustion, a BC apprentice spends 20 weeks in school compared to 24 weeks in Ontario for the non-combustion topics.
Maybe 1/4 of the apprenticeship, or about 1,605 hours might be a fair number for the value of the BC gas certificate?

The Ontario apprenticeship with no gas certificate is 9,000 hours.
The BC apprenticeship minus gas certificate is: 6,420 - 1,605 = 4,815 hours.

It's hilarious... unless you're an Ontario apprentice.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

That is some kinda crazy but you guys are still way closer to a unified system in the states we are nowhere close 
In order to acquire nyc master pl lic you need 7 consecutive years full time under direct supervision of a master but according to NY state department of labor full time is defined by your employer so there's no exact hours and they also check pay records and then it all comes down to permits (if your master didn't pull enough permits they will find your 7 years unsatisfactory)
And my license is only good in nyc not even state as we don't have statewide lic here its up to each municipality

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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

Hold on a minute in BC yes we have our gas component but it's not mandatory to write it, also to get it as a plumber we must show proof of our red seal ticket. There are a lot of guys that never touch the gas work until they hit school, further they took the gas ticket and changed the limits anyone who got there ticked before 2009 or did there schooling is on the old rules 750,000 btu power vented, unlimited atmospheric. The guys going through now are limited to 400,000 on both now. 

Hours in the trade are good if your getting wide range of experience but you could still have a kid packing pipe for his 9000 hours, and get his ticket, does that make him qualified?


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