# Delta 1300/1400 Series Tub and Shw. Valve



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Have any of you guys run into a Delta tub {or shower} valve that has the RP 19804 cartridge in it and it is quite difficult to remove?

I had one on Wednesday {yesterday} and as I was attempting to remove it, it was coming out in little pieces. I have heard from my plumbing buddy here in town that Delta doesn't make an extraction tool.

This particular Delta valve, depending on when it was manufactured, has the exact same identical looking cartridge except that one is slightly shorter than the other one.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

...


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Sometimes I can transfer photos from my I phone to this site, and sometimes I can't.



Have any of you run into this? Where the cartridge is extremely difficult to remove?


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

looks like this guy had fun too..


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

have you ever seen the slide hammer for auto body work? I would make a heavy duty hook for the end, then just hoof it into the cartridge any way possible then just bang away, I might even give a LITTLE heat just to get the rubber seals to let go...but not enough to melt anything..


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> Sometimes I can transfer photos from my I phone to this site, and sometimes I can't.
> 
> Have any of you run into this? Where the cartridge is extremely difficult to remove?





Yeah, there're quite a number of those around here, and like you've seen the pbv portion gets stuck in and comes out in pieces. 



Maybe loop some picture hanging wire around the back and twist both free ends around a beater so you can use it like a lever. Otherwise just use needle nose pliers and pull.














.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> Yeah, there're quite a number of those around here, and like you've seen the pbv portion gets stuck in and comes out in pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

When I've run into the situation of them not coming out easily by hand on the first few attempts, and before attempting to tear it up, I've had luck by reinstalling the retainer ring to hold the cartridge in loosely, like where it would only have a chance to move about an 1/8 of an inch, then briefly bumping the water supply on to help push the cartridge out a bit.

If you don't want to or can't bump the water on, unscrew the shower head, MacGyver up something to attach to the neck and blow the cartridge out. I've had to do this when the house shutoff was difficult to turn on only slightly. I used a 1/2 pex female adapter with a short piece of 1/2 pex going to a 1/2x3/4 pex coupling, then 3/4 pex going to a male adapter which I screwed into an old pressure gauge that I aired up with a hand pump.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Tommy plumber said:


> This particular Delta valve, depending on when it was manufactured, has the exact same identical looking cartridge except that one is slightly shorter than the other one.


Yep I deal with those frequently, I carry those before 2005 or so and the newer ones and I also carry another rarity I seen only a couple of times. They are defiantly tough to get them out on occasion. Then I found out the hard way with seized bonnets and also seized handles.

Wigggle and more wiggle and I get them out. Oh now you've got me thinking to make a tool!


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

If you feel comfortable putting some heat on the body, that can loosen them up. Or take a ratty old screwdriver, heat it up red hot and slowly push it in, melting it to the point you can get the balancing spool out. Then you might be able to grab the pieces with a pair of needle nose and twist the pieces out.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Great idea Toli heating up a screwdriver red hot so that it melts into the plastic.

That's why I posted this, to see what my highly-esteemed colleagues do in this scenario.


When using heat, we have to be mindful of any CPVC inside the walls.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

chonkie said:


> When I've run into the situation of them not coming out easily by hand on the first few attempts, and before attempting to tear it up, I've had luck by reinstalling the retainer ring to hold the cartridge in loosely, like where it would only have a chance to move about an 1/8 of an inch, then briefly bumping the water supply on to help push the cartridge out a bit.
> 
> If you don't want to or can't bump the water on, unscrew the shower head, MacGyver up something to attach to the neck and blow the cartridge out. I've had to do this when the house shutoff was difficult to turn on only slightly. I used a 1/2 pex female adapter with a short piece of 1/2 pex going to a 1/2x3/4 pex coupling, then 3/4 pex going to a male adapter which I screwed into an old pressure gauge that I aired up with a hand pump.












*Brilliant!*


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> Great idea Toli heating up a screwdriver red hot so that it melts into the plastic.
> 
> That's why I posted this, to see what my highly-esteemed colleagues do in this scenario.
> 
> ...







If they have cpvc waterlines than they have much bigger issues that a stuck pbv spool.


Pvc or cpvc for waterlines is a terrible idea.








.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

chonkie said:


> When I've run into the situation of them not coming out easily by hand on the first few attempts, and before attempting to tear it up, I've had luck by reinstalling the retainer ring to hold the cartridge in loosely, like where it would only have a chance to move about an 1/8 of an inch, then briefly bumping the water supply on to help push the cartridge out a bit.
> 
> If you don't want to or can't bump the water on, unscrew the shower head, MacGyver up something to attach to the neck and blow the cartridge out. I've had to do this when the house shutoff was difficult to turn on only slightly. I used a 1/2 pex female adapter with a short piece of 1/2 pex going to a 1/2x3/4 pex coupling, then 3/4 pex going to a male adapter which I screwed into an old pressure gauge that I aired up with a hand pump.


Water ram comes to mind on the shower head and its been sitting doing nothing for the last 12 months or more.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> Water ram comes to mind on the shower head and its been sitting doing nothing for the last 12 months or more.


yeah, the guy forgets to put the ring back on, hits the ram and sends the cartridge right into his chest like a bullet...


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> yeah, the guy forgets to put the ring back on, hits the ram and sends the cartridge right into his chest like a bullet...


Or it hits the wall and poking a hole in the fiber glass or cracks the tile. :sad2:

I'm making a slide hammer, it should be easy to do.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> yeah, the guy forgets to put the ring back on, hits the ram and sends the cartridge right into his chest like a bullet...







This made me die laughing! :vs_laugh:










.


----------



## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> ShtRnsdownhill said:
> 
> 
> > yeah, the guy forgets to put the ring back on, hits the ram and sends the cartridge right into his chest like a bullet...
> ...



I remember reading a review from one of the local companies where something like that almost happened. This guy had his cartridge replaced the previous day. The guy said he turned on the shower and was waiting outside of it, waiting for the water to warm up, when he heard a pop then crash. When he looked in water was gushing out of the diverter and the handle and cartridge had shot across the tub and broke several tiles.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> I remember reading a review from one of the local companies where something like that almost happened. This guy had his cartridge replaced the previous day. The guy said he turned on the shower and was waiting outside of it, waiting for the water to warm up, when he heard a pop then crash. When he looked in water was gushing out of the diverter and the handle and cartridge had shot across the tub and broke several tiles.





My greatest fear is a sloan stop blowing out. I had one once where it was loose enough on the big threads and the inner part was tight so as I used the screwdriver to open it the bigger threads enscrewed :surprise:




Seriously, at 100psi that brass slug would really hurt.












.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I replaced a moen roman tub faucet last year and the guy had fiddled with them and when I got there nothing were holding both cartridges in place! He was damn lucky they didn't pop while they were at work.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> I remember reading a review from one of the local companies where something like that almost happened. This guy had his cartridge replaced the previous day. The guy said he turned on the shower and was waiting outside of it, waiting for the water to warm up, when he heard a pop then crash. When he looked in water was gushing out of the diverter and the handle and cartridge had shot across the tub and broke several tiles.



hydraulic pressure or worse air pressure is a very powerful force not to be dismissed in plumbing...
remember all the exploding toilets....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...call-n922771&usg=AOvVaw0Rbm7JFUPgSvSqxzZLXl8s


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...t-89138.html&usg=AOvVaw0PUN0km5fR-SQ4r-8yzrWd


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> hydraulic pressure or worse air pressure is a very powerful force not to be dismissed in plumbing...
> remember all the exploding toilets....







The real issue with those toilets is that the plastic gets brittles and every time it empties and fills the plastic flexes and weakens a little more.










.


----------



## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Tommy
I have run into this problem also. After removing the front part of the cartridge I drive a 3" drywall screw into the balancing spool. I go in about an inch. Once I do that I reinstall brass retaining nut. I use a claw hammer on the screw and gently apply pressure and pull spool out. Your basically walking the claw hammer on to threads of screw and apply pressure like pulling out a nail from a piece of wood. It works everytime.


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

The bear said:


> Tommy
> I have run into this problem also. After removing the front part of the cartridge I drive a 3" drywall screw into the balancing spool. I go in about an inch. Once I do that I reinstall brass retaining nut. I use a claw hammer on the screw and gently apply pressure and pull spool out. Your basically walking the claw hammer on to threads of screw and apply pressure like pulling out a nail from a piece of wood. It works everytime.



That right there is a great idea.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tommy plumber said:


> ...


I always take a flat screwdriver and use it between the valve body and the flat part of the cartridge and so far it works everytime


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> Yep I deal with those frequently, I carry those before 2005 or so and the newer ones and I also carry another rarity I seen only a couple of times. They are defiantly tough to get them out on occasion. Then I found
> 
> Wigggle and more wiggle


A wiggle and a giggle will make your night complete


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> Yep I deal with those frequently, I carry those before 2005 or so and the newer ones and I also carry another rarity I seen only a couple of times. They are defiantly tough to get them out on occasion. Then I found out the hard way with seized bonnets and also seized handles.
> 
> Wigggle and more wiggle


Like the killer,jerry lee Lewis Does halfway through great balls of Fire,he holds up one finger and says all you gotta do honey is stay in one place and wiggle wiggle wiggle:devil3:


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

:vs_no_no_no::vs_no_no_no:


skoronesa said:


> If they have cpvc waterlines than they have much bigger issues that a stuck pbv spool.
> 
> 
> Pvc or cpvc for waterlines is a terrible idea.
> ...



Let's don't beat that dead horse again,we have already determined cpvc is a cheap and ok material to use on water distribution system:vs_laugh:


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> yeah, the guy forgets to put the ring back on, hits the ram and sends the cartridge right into his chest like a bullet...


What ring??delta has no ring only a thread nut that holds the cartridge in place,me thinks you gots moen on your mind:vs_whistle:


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

sparky said:


> :vs_no_no_no::vs_no_no_no:
> 
> 
> Let's don't beat that dead horse again,we have already determined cpvc is a cheap and ok material to use on water distribution system:vs_laugh:





You're drunk! I posted that a month ago! Before the whole cpvc argument!!! lolz:vs_laugh:









.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

sparky said:


> What ring??delta has no ring only a thread nut that holds the cartridge in place,me thinks you gots moen on your mind:vs_whistle:


same difference ring nut..wtf...:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

moen has clips...not threaded nuts or rings or whatever ya wana call the dam thing..but you knew what I was saying though....:vs_mad::vs_mad:


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The bear said:


> Tommy
> I have run into this problem also. After removing the front part of the cartridge I drive a 3" drywall screw into the balancing spool. I go in about an inch. Once I do that I reinstall brass retaining nut. I use a claw hammer on the screw and gently apply pressure and pull spool out. Your basically walking the claw hammer on to threads of screw and apply pressure like pulling out a nail from a piece of wood. It works everytime.












Thanks Bear. That sounds awesome. 

I also was thinking about you when I did an electronic leak detection recently. I remember you saying that you inject helium gas into the piping and then use a helium gas sniffer to find the leak. You are an experienced professional at leak detection. 
Thanks for the tips.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> You're drunk! I posted that a month ago! Before the whole cpvc argument!!! lolz:vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know my own limitations lolololololo


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> Thanks Bear. That sounds awesome.
> 
> I also was thinking about you when I did an electronic leak detection recently. I remember you saying that you inject helium gas into the piping and then use a helium gas sniffer to find the leak. You are an experienced professional at leak detection.
> Thanks for the tips.





At first this sounded like something from a cartoon!! Add helium, walk around until you talk funny!!


Turns out it's a real thing!! Makes sense, helium is the second smallest atom.








.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> What ring??delta has no ring only a thread nut that holds the cartridge in place,me thinks you gots moen on your mind:vs_whistle:


Both of you meant the same thing.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

sparky said:


> What ring??delta has no ring only a thread nut that holds the cartridge in place,me thinks you gots moen on your mind:vs_whistle:


the only moen on my mind is spelled moan...and it no plumbing part...:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> the only moen on my mind is spelled moan...and it no plumbing part...:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


Only thing I like about moen er moan is the warranty on them,they will send you whatever you ask for,if faucet has been discontinued they will send a new faucet,delta warranty sucks bigtime


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I love moen. We have hard water pretty much everywhere here and many spots have high iron, sediment, or even acidic water. Moen 1200 series stuff does great. Not saying they're good everywhere, just really good with our water. 



I am a sucker for a classic 8710 though so maybe I am biased.






.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> Only thing I like about moen er moan is the warranty on them,they will send you whatever you ask for,if faucet has been discontinued they will send a new faucet,delta warranty sucks bigtime


Yes delta warranty is absolute crap now and customers get angry at me. A shower cartridge is sold at 120$ plus 15% taxes at the big box and I have to mark it up. People complain it's the price of the faucet. Yep well then call them and ask for a replacement and I'll charge you a second visit. There are generic ones at 50$ but I don't want to gamble on them yet. I now buy a whole faucets and take parts from them.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> Yes delta warranty is absolute crap now and customers get angry at me. A shower cartridge is sold at 120$ plus 15% taxes at the big box and I have to mark it up. People complain it's the price of the faucet. Yep well then call them and ask for a replacement and I'll charge you a second visit. There are generic ones at 50$ but I don't want to gamble on them yet. I now buy a whole faucets and take parts from them.


Is that what they are charging for a delta cartridge in Canada???they run about 60.00 bucks here


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> Is that what they are charging for a delta cartridge in Canada???they run about 60.00 bucks here


looks like the price dropped, about a month ago it was 118$

https://www.rona.ca/en/plastic-cart...VBLbICh2x3w6zEAYYASABEgJBxfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> looks like the price dropped, about a month ago it was 118$
> 
> https://www.rona.ca/en/plastic-cart...VBLbICh2x3w6zEAYYASABEgJBxfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds





Wow, that macaroni store is pretty expensive!






.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Wow, that macaroni store is pretty expensive!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same prices as HD and other places. I only buy a few items in big box because my supplier doesn't carry too many service parts.


----------

