# water piping



## plumbbest51 (Nov 2, 2013)

Im sweating some pipes in an old home and tmrw ill be in a very tight area so a little nervous about the fire hazard. What do you guys do in this situation? Fire blanket? Wet down area? :furious:


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

plumbbest51 said:


> Im sweating some pipes in an old home and tmrw ill be in a very tight area so a little nervous about the fire hazard. What do you guys do in this situation? Fire blanket? Wet down area? :furious:


Let my journeyman do it


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## rand17 (Nov 18, 2013)

Better have your squirt bottle close by....


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

This covers what I do...


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Just hurry! Lol

Extinguisher 
Spray bottle to use before your flame
Cool gels work great
Heat block works great
Always push insulation away from the area then spray water to knock down the dust. 
The dust is usually the cause of fires. 

Find a routine that is safe and works then stick with it always even for that one quick joint


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

wet the area down with soap and water mix and then use sheet metal instead of heat blankets. I use wet cloth directly behind the sheet metal. I really like double layered cookie sheets for a heat shield. Also use a torch heat shield...plus it makes sweating pipe faster.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> use sheet metal instead of heat blankets. I use wet cloth directly behind the sheet metal.


I'm gonna disagree big time on this...
Sheet metal conducts heat... Big Time!:yes:

Try this test... If you dare or have the confidence in what you are saying...

Hold sheet metal in your hand and apply the torch to the sheet metal directly over your hand... :laughing:
Before you do this however I recommend that you just apply the torch to the sheet metal without your hand there and see if it gets red hot...:whistling2:
Trust me you aren't going to hold it in your hand after seeing what happens...:no:

Next take a protective mat made of high temperature silica fabric and try the same test...:thumbup:

It will warm very slowly without your hand being burned....
Seeing as you are a non believer try it with a Bic lighter first...
With the mat wrapped around your hand holding it over the lighter...
After a few minutes and the lighter overheating you'll be ready to try the torch....:laughing:

I do like the soap in the water though it will help the water wet the wood better...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I like the cool gel in tight spots. Blankets are safe but I seem to have trouble getting them to stay where I need them.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Soapy water. Heavy on the soap


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## Turd Chaser (Dec 1, 2011)

Propress or soapy water or cool gel


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Schwinn coupling :jester:


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## plumbbest51 (Nov 2, 2013)

I think its time i give in and buy a pro press


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I've soldered hundreds of joints right at wall with paper for baseboard heating..


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## JorgensenPlbg (Jul 12, 2010)

Get rid of the turbo torch and buy a soft flame torch. Turbo is fine for open areas but sucks in repairs.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Solder fast and pray is normally what I do


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> I like the cool gel in tight spots. Blankets are safe but I seem to have trouble getting them to stay where I need them.


I use the "Pony" hand clamps to keep the fire blanket in place. I also use them to keep copper jigged up while soldering.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

422 plumber said:


> I use the "Pony" hand clamps to keep the fire blanket in place. I also use them to keep copper jigged up while soldering.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I use the same ones but add a chain and connect two together. Helps as a third hand with the chain. 

Red....how long you willing to put a flame on you hand covered by a heat blanket? Maybe you're onto something. Something missed on my post is "double layered" and I guess I didn't explain that well enough.....it's a cookie sheet about 1/2" thick but is made of 2 layers of sheet metal with an air gap between it....also has a wet towel behind it. The torch shield is also made from 2 layers of sheet metal. The air gap between the layers prevents fast heat transfer. BTW....also use a reed poly flare vice grips to act as a heat sink when soldering close to old fittings or a wall.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> I use the same ones but add a chain and connect two together. Helps as a third hand with the chain.
> 
> Red....how long you willing to put a flame on you hand covered by a heat blanket? Maybe you're onto something. Something missed on my post is "double layered" and I guess I didn't explain that well enough.....it's a cookie sheet about 1/2" thick but is made of 2 layers of sheet metal with an air gap between it....also has a wet towel behind it. The torch shield is also made from 2 layers of sheet metal. The air gap between the layers prevents fast heat transfer. BTW....also use a reed poly flare vice grips to act as a heat sink when soldering close to old fittings or a wall.


The double layer adds something for sure...

But nothing like a heat blanket...
Torch flame on one side and slightly warm on the other...

Far less bother that wetting rags trying to get them and your metal to stay in position...


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

How do you hold a heat blanket in place....I've never used one.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> How do you hold a heat blanket in place....I've never used one.


Finishing nails.. holes so small easily painted over.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Aw hell no. I'll just use my cookie sheet and pony clamps. Not bringing hammer and nails to a sweating job.


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

RT-100 soldering tongs.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

wookie said:


> RT-100 soldering tongs.


Wow, just checked that out. Pretty cool but pricey!!


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Just bought this Cool Gel based on this thread. Had never noticed on the supply house. Price equates to $100/gallon plus tax. So I tried it and did a burn test. The right side is 10 seconds of straight heat untreated. The left side is 10 seconds of straight heat with two squirts from the bottle. The middle is a simultated solder. Just waved the torch around like I was hitting the back of a fitting. Will try it again with actual pipe and fitting. Definitely going to carry this on my truck from now on.


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## ROTOR KING (Oct 7, 2008)

I also keep handy a old water tank cover,usually slips nicely behind the pipe


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Letterrip said:


> Just bought this Cool Gel based on this thread. Had never noticed on the supply house. Price equates to $100/gallon plus tax. So I tried it and did a burn test. The right side is 10 seconds of straight heat untreated. The left side is 10 seconds of straight heat with two squirts from the bottle. The middle is a simultated solder. Just waved the torch around like I was hitting the back of a fitting. Will try it again with actual pipe and fitting. Definitely going to carry this on my truck from now on.


Put it on a little thicker and don't put the torch on it close enough where the force of the torch blows it thinner, then see how long it protects for...

The stuff is good!:thumbup:

The rep sold me by treating a $100 bill with it...

After that demo everyone was at the counter buying the stuff....


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Yeah, your post is why I bought it. Rarely are you forced to put a torch straight on something. I wanted to test it. Seeing how it stood up to a turbo torch straight on with only two squeezes of the tray trigger impressed me. Going to take a few minutes to demonstrate at the office Monday morning.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> wet the area down with soap and water mix and then use sheet metal instead of heat blankets. I use wet cloth directly behind the sheet metal. I really like double layered cookie sheets for a heat shield. Also use a torch heat shield...plus it makes sweating pipe faster.








That is what I use also. A piece of sheetmetal folded in half. I have soldered with the sheetmetal right up against a fiberglass tub and didn't scorch the tub. I also keep the turbotorch moving.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

What happened to the good ole days when asbestos didn't kill you?

<snicker>


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Letterrip said:


> Just bought this Cool Gel based on this thread. Had never noticed on the supply house. Price equates to $100/gallon plus tax. So I tried it and did a burn test. The right side is 10 seconds of straight heat untreated. The left side is 10 seconds of straight heat with two squirts from the bottle. The middle is a simultated solder. Just waved the torch around like I was hitting the back of a fitting. Will try it again with actual pipe and fitting. Definitely going to carry this on my truck from now on.


Great stuff but do not get it on the piping or fitting ! You'll never heat it .


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## anthony d (Nov 23, 2013)

Cal said:


> Great stuff but do not get it on the piping or fitting ! You'll never heat it .


+1

gotta be careful when you spray.

i will use a blanket if i can, otherwise it is all about flame control really. i have soldered in some ridiculously tight and dangerous areas, only had to put out one fire, lol...


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm hearing yous guys talk about soapy water ? Never heard this before ! Is the soap a flame retardant ?? 

Like what ,, dawn ,etc ?? Thank You!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Cal said:


> I'm hearing yous guys talk about soapy water ? Never heard this before ! Is the soap a flame retardant ??
> 
> Like what ,, dawn ,etc ?? Thank You!


No soap is not a fire retardant...

The soap acts as a penetrating or, wetting agent which lowers the surface tension of water allowing the water to soak deeper into the wood faster, allowing more protection...

Wetting Agents have been used for a long time in the fire service on deep seated fires in fibrous materials. At least since the 50's that I know of, the '50's Mack Pumper that I learned on had a system where large 3" or so diameter candle shaped blocks were placed in a cylinder and water was passed through there making wet water. Present day wetting agents such as SILV-EX, Drench, and others are liquids which can either be poured into the tank on the truck or, added in a venturi eductor system in very low percentages less than 2% making faster knockdowns for fires.

But yes pretty much any soap or, detergent will act as a wetting agent.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Redwood said:


> No soap is not a fire retardant... The soap acts as a penetrating or, wetting agent which lowers the surface tension of water allowing the water to soak deeper into the wood faster, allowing more protection... Wetting Agents have been used for a long time in the fire service on deep seated fires in fibrous materials. At least since the 50's that I know of, the '50's Mack Pumper that I learned on had a system where large 3" or so diameter candle shaped blocks were placed in a cylinder and water was passed through there making wet water. Present day wetting agents such as SILV-EX, Drench, and others are liquids which can either be poured into the tank on the truck or, added in a venturi eductor system in very low percentages less than 2% making faster knockdowns for fires. But yes pretty much any soap or, detergent will act as a wetting agent.


Excellent ! Good to know ! Thank You!


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not a chemist or a firefighter but soap and water will out out way more fire than water alone. Basically the bubbles contain water and the bubbles make it like you used 5 times the amount of water. (I just make up the 5 times, not sure the exact amount, but it multiplies it significantly.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Used it yesterday. Nice ! And my rag smells better


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

The soapy water also washes flux off way faster. I also use it to wet the area down when drain cleaning. Black sludge doesn't stick and cleans off way easier.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

The soap works as a adhesion agent. If you have ever made home brew weed killer one of the main ingredients is dish soap. While it cleans it also sticks to things.


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## plumbing ninja (Jan 15, 2012)

plumbbest51 said:


> I think its time i give in and buy a pro press


Yep we've had a lot of accidents where poly panels have caught fire! We will use pro press in these area and the welders will continue welding (ss) or sweating (cu) the rest of the pipework.


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## Ryan M (Dec 8, 2013)

plumbbest51 said:


> Im sweating some pipes in an old home and tmrw ill be in a very tight area so a little nervous about the fire hazard. What do you guys do in this situation? Fire blanket? Wet down area? :furious:


Grab a fire extinguisher and bring it into the job tomorrow first off. All you can do is what you said, although I've found tinfoil works well to if you don't have the burn sheet. Also if you see a little fire start don't panic just heat up the copper fitting and do your bead, smother the fire after if it doesn't die panic and use the F.E! 

Good luck


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I still use a piece of asbestos tile from time to time. It's not crumbling, so?:laughing:


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