# Outside Drain Pipe Repair



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)




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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Assuming more pics are to come?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)




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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

This is a job I started saturday, line was blocked badly. No outside cleanout but there is one now. 


6" clay, materials cost $160.00 for a 10' length of 6", 2 - 6" clay to pvc ferncos, 6X4 wye with a street 22. Cleanout is now 8' from the problem spot. It was dug up where the water was surfacing.

Been clogging up for over a year, but finally surfaced water nearly 4' up out of the ground... that's a tight clog. 

It's done, clay was brittle but that's why a diamond blade angle grinder was used.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Did you camera to see what the true cause of the blockages was?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Will said:


> Did you camera to see what the true cause of the blockages was?


 
Nope. Not going to spend thousands on a camera. Would be nice, but everyone always complains of them breaking, not lasting. 

Would love to have one but we pulled back roots and hair, TONS of hair.


To clog a 6" clay line and have water creeping out of the ground 4' feet, impressive.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Any reason for not running a 6" clean out up instead of 4" beside cost?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Cameras are worth there weight in gold when it comes to sewers. I hate leaving old risers in place because a lot of the times it's the tap that is failing. Before I got my camera, on 6" I would run a 5" cutter head down the pipe. If a 5" blade can get through with out getting hung up, a turd will pass through also...Glad I got a camera now.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Nice sticker lol


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Even if the c.o. you installed is close to the city connection, I would have installed a 2-way c.o. 
With the one that you installed, you can only cable in one direction.


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> Even if the c.o. you installed is close to the city connection, I would have installed a 2-way c.o.
> With the one that you installed, you can only cable in one direction.


Read my mind


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Nope. Not going to spend thousands on a camera. Would be nice, but everyone always complains of them breaking, not lasting.
> 
> Would love to have one but we pulled back roots and hair, TONS of hair.
> 
> To clog a 6" clay line and have water creeping out of the ground 4' feet, impressive.


A camera pays itself off in just "1" good job. Not sure I agree or understand your concept there. How do you sell sewer jobs or even come close to fully evaluating a mainline without one??? :Guess:


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Doesn't code require you to install a cleanout access the same diameter as the main for which you are installing it? Basically, like another poster said, why a 4" access for a 6" main?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Yes. Code here is that way


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Doesn't code require you to install a cleanout access the same diameter as the main for which you are installing it? Basically, like another poster said, why a 4" access for a 6" main?



IPC does, not sure about where the OP is. I'd prefered a 2 way cleanout also or better two combos.


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

Code here requires full size cleanout up to 4" pipe, larger pipe can be installed with a 4" cleanout. Not best practice, but it is allowed. 

Florida Building Code, Plumbing 708.7 . Based, I believe, on the IPC.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Doesn't code require you to install a cleanout access the same diameter as the main for which you are installing it? Basically, like another poster said, why a 4" access for a 6" main?


Right! He reduced from 8" to 6" to 4". I know us fellow plumbers love to nitpick others, but I will also give credit were credit is due. Not sure its due here.......that's just my 2cents.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

504Plumber said:


> Any reason for not running a 6" clean out up instead of 4" beside cost?



Customer had a section of 4" they wanted us to use if we could. 



Will said:


> Cameras are worth there weight in gold when it comes to sewers. I hate leaving old risers in place because a lot of the times it's the tap that is failing. Before I got my camera, on 6" I would run a 5" cutter head down the pipe. If a 5" blade can get through with out getting hung up, a turd will pass through also...Glad I got a camera now.


I agree, cameras are awesome but I'd never get my full money out of its use... I know myself, and I'd be running that camera for free most times just to see what I got into, and if I got it clean.





Tommy plumber said:


> Even if the c.o. you installed is close to the city connection, I would have installed a 2-way c.o.
> With the one that you installed, you can only cable in one direction.



The way it's now, there's a cleanout every 40'. I don't agree with 2 way cleanouts because 

1. When you arrive the system is flooded, you cannot 'tell' it's a 2 way and 
2. It's directional, meaning I throw that cable in that cleanout I know exactly where it's going to go, one way.

I see necessity of a 2 way when there's not two other cleanouts, either direction of 40' like this one was. 



Chadillac80 said:


> A camera pays itself off in just "1" good job. Not sure I agree or understand your concept there. How do you sell sewer jobs or even come close to fully evaluating a mainline without one??? :Guess:



I rarely do outside dig jobs. Rarely.... I stick to drain cleaning mainly inside the homes as well, like it that way. 

I've been on these forums too long on the internet to hear of the horror stories of cameras breaking, parts/screens not working, obsolesence by just a year or two with a 'new and improved' and guess what; the old won't match the new in compatability. That's BS in my world and I won't spend thousands to be caught in the mix, finding out the hard way. 

I get maybe 5 calls a year for camera work... it's going to sit more than it's used for some time.



Best Darn Sewer said:


> Doesn't code require you to install a cleanout access the same diameter as the main for which you are installing it? Basically, like another poster said, why a 4" access for a 6" main?


No code requiring same size cleanout risers of the main. I can see its value (attachment head for 6") but it's not warranted. They turned up a 4" riser the same exact way when the city turned up a cleanout where they ran new piping for the main sewers. 



Chadillac80 said:


> Right! He reduced from 8" to 6" to 4". I know us fellow plumbers love to nitpick others, but I will also give credit were credit is due. Not sure its due here.......that's just my 2cents.


It's 6" clay, 6" to 6" with a 4" riser. All 3 risers are matching 4", the code required minimum size for outside sewer.

Existing 6" because it's an existing larger pipe that's replicated to the main because you can not downsize unless you take up to the building wall where 4" exists.

Not once, but twice this property owner had opportunities to remove this aging piping system. 


Everyone picks on everything on this site, I'm used to it. I didn't even have to turn out a c/o. It's just a good move given the fact that standing clog was pretty impressive. 4" cutter will clean a 6" line all-day-long. 

Everyone wants super clean drain when you clean... just remember that you wrote yourself out of a job for years polishing a pipe like that. The piping's poor condition brought you there... do you expect it not to come back? 

It's a symptom fix, not a problem solve when you clear a drain. It WILL return.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Customer had a section of 4" they wanted us to use if we could.
> 
> I agree, cameras are awesome but I'd never get my full money out of its use... I know myself, and I'd be running that camera for free most times just to see what I got into, and if I got it clean.
> 
> ...


Haha. Fair enough. People do heavily critique here. But that can be a good thing. It keeps us in check, though sometimes it does go overboard.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

phishfood said:


> Code here requires full size cleanout up to 4" pipe, larger pipe can be installed with a 4" cleanout. Not best practice, but it is allowed.
> 
> Florida Building Code, Plumbing 708.7 . Based, I believe, on the IPC.


Same here.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The way it's now, there's a cleanout every 40'. I don't agree with 2 way cleanouts because
> 
> 1. When you arrive the system is flooded, you cannot 'tell' it's a 2 way and
> 2. It's directional, meaning I throw that cable in that cleanout I know exactly where it's going to go, one way.
> ...


 They make two way cleanouts that have wyes facing each other or you can make your own.. We always just install a tee for the clean out. I never have a problem determining which way my rod went when the clean out is full of water. My father taught me how to (a) feel the cable (b) notice how the cable is riding in the riser pipe. 



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I rarely do outside dig jobs. Rarely.... I stick to drain cleaning mainly inside the homes as well, like it that way.


I can tell sewer repair is not your normal line of work. The hole was not square (something my father beat into me to do to make working in a hole much easer) and cutting clay pipe with an angle grinder is lots of work. Snap cutters do a great job cutting clay sewers, just make sure all the cutting wheels are clean and move freely.



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I've been on these forums too long on the internet to hear of the horror stories of cameras breaking, parts/screens not working, obsolesence by just a year or two with a 'new and improved' and guess what; the old won't match the new in compatability. That's BS in my world and I won't spend thousands to be caught in the mix, finding out the hard way.
> 
> I get maybe 5 calls a year for camera work... it's going to sit more than it's used for some time.


Most of those horror stories are people buying the cheap camera systems. I have owned my SeeSnake for 20 years now. Yes I have had to have it retermanated a few times, but that is from wear and tear over the years. The first reterm was due to my own lack of knowing how to use the system properly within the first year of owning it. The second time was 10 years later, I wore out the first five feet from all the cast iron lines. The third and final time was due to an over zealous backhoe operator, he did not wait for me to pull my camera out of the line before digging and scoped the pipe with my camera. The final time again normal wear and tear on the push rod.

As for only needing it 5 times a year, that is now. If you have a camera you can use it daily on all mainline roddings to show the customer the condition of their sewer. You can offer it as an extra or as some do it free of charge, in hopes to see what and why a blockage formed in the sewer. Then they can show the owner the crack in the pipe or the very heavy root intrusion, and sell them a repair to resolve the issue. Also once you have one you will advertise you have a camera, and you will get more calls to use it just for basic inspections.




DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> No code requiring same size cleanout risers of the main. I can see its value (attachment head for 6") but it's not warranted. They turned up a 4" riser the same exact way when the city turned up a cleanout where they ran new piping for the main sewers.


 Here in Illinois the code requires the clean out to be of the same pipe size up to 6" any pipe larger must have at least a 6" clean out. Also code here is to use shielded/no-shear couplings for repairs like that.




DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Everyone picks on everything on this site, I'm used to it. I didn't even have to turn out a c/o. It's just a good move given the fact that standing clog was pretty impressive. 4" cutter will clean a 6" line all-day-long.
> 
> Everyone wants super clean drain when you clean... just remember that you wrote yourself out of a job for years polishing a pipe like that. The piping's poor condition brought you there... do you expect it not to come back?
> 
> It's a symptom fix, not a problem solve when you clear a drain. It WILL return.


 You can get a 6" cutter through the 4" clean out. I do it all the time even when the 4" pipe is ran for 50+ feet, and I am not talking about those expensive expanding cutters, just a Pear shaped full on 6" spring steel cutter. And getting it down a 4" riser right into a 6" line is a breeze. 

No criticism from me, I known you long enough that I know that you take pride in your work and will always do what's right for your clients, and what meets your local codes.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The way it's now, there's a cleanout every 40'. I don't agree with 2 way cleanouts because
> 
> 1. When you arrive the system is flooded, you cannot 'tell' it's a 2 way and
> 2. It's directional, meaning I throw that cable in that cleanout I know exactly where it's going to go, one way.
> ...


You know it is really quite simple. If the cable is touching the up hill side of the cleanout riser your headed down stream.....


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> .
> 
> Here in Illinois the code requires the clean out to be of the same pipe size up to 6" any pipe larger must have at least a 6" clean out. Also code here is to use shielded/no-shear couplings for repairs like that.


Are you saying that band-all or Husky type couplings are available for PVC to Clay transitions? I always thought Ferncos WERE the option.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Are you saying that band-all or Husky type couplings are available for PVC to Clay transitions? I always thought Ferncos WERE the option.


 Fernco makes shielded sewer repair couplings. http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/strong-back-rc-couplings#tabs-1-2


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

SewerRatz said:


> Fernco makes shielded sewer repair couplings. http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/strong-back-rc-couplings#tabs-1-2


I stock one or two of those on my truck.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Fernco makes shielded sewer repair couplings. http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/strong-back-rc-couplings#tabs-1-2


Wow, learned something new today. Thank you. I didn't know such a thing existed. I guess I should have asked or checked into it.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Wow, learned something new today. Thank you. I didn't know such a thing existed. I guess I should have asked or checked into it.


Now to find we're we can buy these in Houston. Have you searched them yet? I'm not having any luck.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Chadillac80 said:


> Now to find we're we can buy these in Houston. Have you searched them yet? I'm not having any luck.


No I haven't. Where have you looked? All of the usual places, I assume? Stanco, Ferguson, Moore and Morrison?


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> No I haven't. Where have you looked? All of the usual places, I assume? Stanco, Ferguson, Moore and Morrison?


Yep. All of the above. So far looks like plumbmaster inc. carries them...other than that still looking.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> They make two way cleanouts that have wyes facing each other or you can make your own.. We always just install a tee for the clean out. I never have a problem determining which way my rod went when the clean out is full of water. My father taught me how to (a) feel the cable (b) notice how the cable is riding in the riser pipe.
> 
> 
> I can tell sewer repair is not your normal line of work. The hole was not square (something my father beat into me to do to make working in a hole much easer) and cutting clay pipe with an angle grinder is lots of work. Snap cutters do a great job cutting clay sewers, just make sure all the cutting wheels are clean and move freely.
> ...



We never dug the hole, never even touched a shovel on this one. Didn't even put dirt back, just sand. With cleanouts every 40' feet I saw no need for directional tee, or dual t-wye cleanouts. Overkill for this job completely.

Installing a 6" cleanout wasn't in the cards as I was asked to use any piping on the job (to save money, now there's 3-4" cleanouts. 


As mentioned I rarely do outside dig jobs, like to keep drain cleaning 'inside' the structure as for every time I've played in the dirt, I've lost money by not having equipment. 

Cameras mean a lot of upper body and shoulder use. My right shoulder is slowly giving out, left has been tore once so I'm not too keen on playing in pipes when everything is push and pull in that design. 

The list of calls I've gained in just the past four days are all small jobs, I love that about the profession. Anything larger I try not to do, unless a repeat customer.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Will said:


> You know it is really quite simple. If the cable is touching the up hill side of the cleanout riser your headed down stream.....


 

I learned this back in 1985....



but I like the ability to throw and go, no guessing which I just created for anyone hitting that cleanout.


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## Thekid (Oct 24, 2010)

It's pretty easy to rip on a guys work but its even easier to say good work. We all live in different areas and do it different ways and don't know the circumstances everyone else in. His whole is not perfectly square? Who cares! Were all plumbers here let's get along not fight and rip on everything. At least he has the balls to post pictures. Good work Dunbar looks good!


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Thekid said:


> It's pretty easy to rip on a guys work but its even easier to say good work. We all live in different areas and do it different ways and don't know the circumstances everyone else in. His whole is not perfectly square? Who cares! Were all plumbers here let's get along not fight and rip on everything. At least he has the balls to post pictures. Good work Dunbar looks good!


 
I was just pointing out the fact, that my old man would give me **** for digging a hole like that. In fact he did the first and only time I dug a thimble style hole. Once he squared the hole off and showed me how much easier it was to work in, I have always hand dug my holes square.

And I was not busting Dunbars chops, he did a great job, and I pointed out I know he is the type of plumber to always give his best and do the best type of work and to code for his customers. I have posted pictures in the past. I also have my company name and my License number in my signature because I am proud of the work I provide. I have known Dunbar for a long time from this forum and a few others before I became a member here.

So TheKid lets see some pictures of your work, and lets see your company information listed with it.


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## Thekid (Oct 24, 2010)

Never once in my post did I single you out. I was making a point of saying a lot of people were ripping on him and its not right. I am not going to include a company name because I do not own the company and the owner would probably not want it on a forum. I will gladly start taking pictures of the work we do.


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## Thekid (Oct 24, 2010)

Here's a little photo of my work of art from last night.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Thekid said:


> Never once in my post did I single you out. I was making a point of saying a lot of people were ripping on him and its not right. I am not going to include a company name because I do not own the company and the owner would probably not want it on a forum. I will gladly start taking pictures of the work we do.


 
I was the only one that said anything about a square hole... so yes you did single me out.


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## Thekid (Oct 24, 2010)

Did not pay attention who said what I noticed there was a lot of criticism. Sorry you were offended.......


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## Andrew G (May 27, 2013)

SewerRatz said:


> They make two way cleanouts that have wyes facing each other or you can make your own.. We always just install a tee for the clean out. I never have a problem determining which way my rod went when the clean out is full of water. My father taught me how to (a) feel the cable (b) notice how the cable is riding in the riser pipe.
> 
> I can tell sewer repair is not your normal line of work. The hole was not square (something my father beat into me to do to make working in a hole much easer) and cutting clay pipe with an angle grinder is lots of work. Snap cutters do a great job cutting clay sewers, just make sure all the cutting wheels are clean and move freely.
> 
> ...


Good info on the sewer cam. We also have a See Snake with DVR recording capacity. Very portable deck but $$. Very valuable tool that would be hard to get along without once you use it only a few times. Incredible for locating sewer lines for T&I sawcut/tie-ins, recording the condition of newly installed sewer lines prior to completion of remodels, locating and documenting breaks in sewer lines as to where the obstruction is.. Incredible tool.


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