# From angies list - who pays when drain cleaning equipment breaks



## plungerboy

http://answers.angieslist.com/my-plumber-broke-tool-drain-charging-replace-Can-that-q130756.aspx


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## dhal22

It appears anyone can answer that question.


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## plungerboy

dhal22 said:


> It appears anyone can answer that question.


Yup. Thats why I posted it. I wanted real plumber to respond not some nitwit from AL.


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## Drain Pro

I don't charge for equipment loss such as cables and blades. That is part of my overhead. Most of the time a cable gets stuck it's operator error, even if a line is broken. For instance, 3 weeks ago a customer calls me with a sewer stoppage. I manage to clear it but it's definitely broken. He calls back on Friday and it's backed up again. I tell him it's time to dig, he asks me to please try to open it one more time. I send my mechanic and tell him to open it with a flush bag, don't snake it. Well he snakes it, gets cable stuck. I go to the job, cable is not coming out. Probably out of the pipe and doubled up under the side walk. Line not flowing either. I cut the cable (a month old) and my losses. No charge for the three hours my guys are there. The customer wants me to bill his son but I say no charge. I don't need to be sued for leaving my cable in an already broken pipe. No good deed goes unpunished. Some days you win, some days you lose. The key is too win more than you lose.


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## plbgbiz

dhal22 said:


> It appears anyone can answer that question.



Someone else just answered....


BizBrew said:


> Yep, the cost of his tools are part of his overhead. And just who do you suppose pays for that overhead? I'll give you a hint. It's not him. He clearly could have handled it better as a tradesman, but the wear and tear on equipment is paid for by customers.
> 
> A more professional approach is to have the plumber let you know your faulty pipe must be repaired/replaced. Then the cost of the equipment damaged while trying to clear the drain is just part the overall price you are given for the solving the problem.
> 
> Either way, you're paying for services rendered...as well you should.


http://answers.angieslist.com/my-plumber-broke-tool-drain-charging-replace-Can-that-q130756.aspx


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## Unclog1776

90% of my calls I would absorb the cost of damaged equipment. That being said I do have a contract that my lawyer wrote for those "rouge sewer" calls or the odd job that you get a gut feeling about. It states they have 24 hours to pay for our equipment to be recovered or they buy it. Never had to use it yet but I keep a couple copies in all three trucks


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## AssTyme

Drain Pro said:


> I don't charge for equipment loss such as cables and blades. That is part of my overhead. Most of the time a cable gets stuck it's operator error, even if a line is broken. For instance, 3 weeks ago a customer calls me with a sewer stoppage. I manage to clear it but it's definitely broken. He calls back on Friday and it's backed up again. I tell him it's time to dig, he asks me to please try to open it one more time. I send my mechanic and tell him to open it with a flush bag, don't snake it. Well he snakes it, gets cable stuck. I go to the job, cable is not coming out. Probably out of the pipe and doubled up under the side walk. Line not flowing either. I cut the cable (a month old) and my losses. No charge for the three hours my guys are there. The customer wants me to bill his son but I say no charge. I don't need to be sued for leaving my cable in an already broken pipe. No good deed goes unpunished. Some days you win, some days you lose. The key is too win more than you lose.





That's why I always work alone. Zero tolerance for stupidity unless it's my own :laughing:


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## SewerRatz

Only time I charge for broke a cutter, or a cable is if the sewer was badly damaged. The damaged sewer caused my equipment to break. Now if it was normal wear and tear and I failed to notice that an end was getting loose and the cutter fell off due to a worn female end, I ensure it is no longer in the home owners sewer by either retrieving it or pushing it into the city main, and will not charge them for the loss. I only had that happen once.

I had one job that my rod left a broken pipe and got hung up. I gave them a price to dig up the spot where it was broken remove my cable and repair the pipe. They opted not to hire me to do the dig, so I billed them for my time and the cable with cutter. I explained to them they can get their money back for the cable and cutter if they return it to my undamaged. 

A few weeks later he called me said he had another company dig up the sewer and remove my cable but they took it with them. So he wanted me to give him his money back and that I should bill the guy that he hired to dig up the sewer. I told him once he gets the cable back call me and I will be more than happy to come inspect it and if its was not damaged I would return his funds for the return of my cable.


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## SewerRatz

Drain Pro said:


> I don't charge for equipment loss such as cables and blades. That is part of my overhead. Most of the time a cable gets stuck it's operator error, even if a line is broken. For instance, 3 weeks ago a customer calls me with a sewer stoppage. I manage to clear it but it's definitely broken. He calls back on Friday and it's backed up again. I tell him it's time to dig, he asks me to please try to open it one more time. I send my mechanic and tell him to open it with a flush bag, don't snake it. Well he snakes it, gets cable stuck. I go to the job, cable is not coming out. Probably out of the pipe and doubled up under the side walk. Line not flowing either. I cut the cable (a month old) and my losses. No charge for the three hours my guys are there. The customer wants me to bill his son but I say no charge. I don't need to be sued for leaving my cable in an already broken pipe. No good deed goes unpunished. Some days you win, some days you lose. The key is too win more than you lose.


 In your case you already know from previous rodding the line is broken. What if when you first rodded the line and your cable got stuck? Then would you say no charge and leave your cable in the line? It is not your fault that their sewer is broken and I doubt you have xray vision.


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## Unclog1776

I've seen a ton of stuck cables. Only once have I seen it stuck due to broken line. Most others were operator error and they got hung up in a bunch of roots. Once we get them unstuck with a Jetter you can then clean the line properly as a professional sewer tech should. I don't believe the customer is responsible for someone not having enough experience with an auger


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## plbgbiz

This was wedged so tight that I had to dig it up to free the cable. Whose fault and who should pay?


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## MACPLUMB777

SewerRatz said:


> Only time I charge for broke a cutter, or a cable is if the sewer was badly damaged. The damaged sewer caused my equipment to break. Now if it was normal wear and tear and I failed to notice that an end was getting loose and the cutter fell off due to a worn female end, I ensure it is no longer in the home owners sewer by either retrieving it or pushing it into the city main, and will not charge them for the loss. I only had that happen once.
> 
> I had one job that my rod left a broken pipe and got hung up. I gave them a price to dig up the spot where it was broken remove my cable and repair the pipe. They opted not to hire me to do the dig, so I billed them for my time and the cable with cutter. I explained to them they can get their money back for the cable and cutter if they return it to my undamaged.
> 
> A few weeks later he called me said he had another company dig up the sewer and remove my cable but they took it with them. So he wanted me to give him his money back and that I should bill the guy that he hired to dig up the sewer. I told him once he gets the cable back call me and I will be more than happy to come inspect it and if its was not damaged I would return his funds for the return of my cable.


Let us guess you are still waiting for that phone call ? LOL :whistling2:


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## Unclog1776

plbgbiz said:


> This was wedged so tight that I had to dig it up to free the cable. Whose fault and who should pay?


Is it just wedged on the lateral that someone stuck in there?


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## plbgbiz

Unclog1776 said:


> Is it just wedged on the lateral that someone stuck in there?


Yes.


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## Unclog1776

That's a tough one. I would blame that on the lateral coming in so far. Whoever owns the pipe pays I would say


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## Drain Pro

SewerRatz said:


> In your case you already know from previous rodding the line is broken. What if when you first rodded the line and your cable got stuck? Then would you say no charge and leave your cable in the line? It is not your fault that their sewer is broken and I doubt you have xray vision.



Not to sound arrogant, but I never get my cable stuck to the point I can't retrieve it. I can feel when I come out of the pipe so I don't keep feeding cable. In this case I normally would charge however, the customer stated that he was going to try and make a claim through his sewer line plan. I know that they'll call it a pre existing condition especially since my cables in the line. The last thing I want is for him to blame me for the pre existing condition due to the cable. I figured I'd cut my losses and get out of there. The only job ticket he has is mine from several weeks before stating " damaged sewer, no guarantee." I spoke with my mechanic again today who otherwise always does a fine job. I told him next time I tell you not to cable a line, don't. There's always a method to my madness.

I feel that sometimes it's wise to take a loss in the short term in order to guarantee success in the long haul.


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## Tommy plumber

plbgbiz said:


> Someone else just answered....
> 
> http://answers.angieslist.com/my-plumber-broke-tool-drain-charging-replace-Can-that-q130756.aspx













I read that. Some guy named Biz Brew posted. Hmmmm, I've heard that name somewhere........

By the way, good post.


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## Tommy plumber

plbgbiz said:


> This was wedged so tight that I had to dig it up to free the cable. Whose fault and who should pay?














Perfect example of why the plumbing code states that drainage piping shall have no ledges, lips, etc.


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## sierra2000

SewerRatz said:


> In your case you already know from previous rodding the line is broken. What if when you first rodded the line and your cable got stuck? Then would you say no charge and leave your cable in the line? It is not your fault that their sewer is broken and I doubt you have xray vision.


I agree with this. I go by feel too but you can't always feel what's there. Bottom line for me is it's their sewer they've neglected not mine. I don't get stuck often but when I do I explain that it needs to be dug up there in order to clear it and repair that section.


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## SewerRatz

Drain Pro said:


> Not to sound arrogant, but I never get my cable stuck to the point I can't retrieve it. I can feel when I come out of the pipe so I don't keep feeding cable. _~snip_~_. _


I normally can feel it as well. I have only gotten stuck in a sewer twice in the nearly 30 years I have been rodding sewers. Both times it was almost an instant when the cutter got itself hung up.

I have unstuck, and retrieved a lot of cables from other plumbers and home owners that rent machines without the need to dig up the sewer.


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## Redwood

I use the Duracable style screw ends and a C1 Chuck...
Most of the time I can reverse and unscrew the blade off leaving the blade behind when I'm stuck...

Only once that I can recall leaving a cable behind, it was a rotted out concrete line and the blade had gotten under the pipe. In that case I couldn't get the screw to break loose... Doom on Me...

The line needed replacement and the customer didn't have the money...


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## JoseM

well, from the plumbing point of view there should'nt any charges for the broken cable or wire problem or if the machine stops working suddenly between working period. But if there is any serious problem occurs with the equipment than it can be chargeable for the person who is using it that time. first of all, the thing which is to be carry out what equipment is ! then what is the deal before starting work. I hope information is useful for you.


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## Cajunhiker

Did he ^^^^ say something??


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## jmc12185

JoseM said:


> well, from the plumbing point of view there should'nt any charges for the broken cable or wire problem or if the machine stops working suddenly between working period. But if there is any serious problem occurs with the equipment than it can be chargeable for the person who is using it that time. first of all, the thing which is to be carry out what equipment is ! then what is the deal before starting work. I hope information is useful for you.


 Man I don't understand a word you said. Made absolutely no sense.


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## rjbphd

JoseM said:


> well, from the plumbing point of view there should'nt any charges for the broken cable or wire problem or if the machine stops working suddenly between working period. But if there is any serious problem occurs with the equipment than it can be chargeable for the person who is using it that time. first of all, the thing which is to be carry out what equipment is ! then what is the deal before starting work. I hope information is useful for you.


Leafz's buddy...laughing...


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## rjbphd

JoseM said:


> well, from the plumbing point of view there should'nt any charges for the broken cable or wire problem or if the machine stops working suddenly between working period. But if there is any serious problem occurs with the equipment than it can be chargeable for the person who is using it that time. first of all, the thing which is to be carry out what equipment is ! then what is the deal before starting work. I hope information is useful for you.


Without proper introduction, the exit door is on your right....


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## sparky

JoseM said:


> well, from the plumbing point of view there should'nt any charges for the broken cable or wire problem or if the machine stops working suddenly between working period. But if there is any serious problem occurs with the equipment than it can be chargeable for the person who is using it that time. first of all, the thing which is to be carry out what equipment is ! then what is the deal before starting work. I hope information is useful for you.


Posting while high is not allowed on the zone:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## chonkie

sparky said:


> Posting while high is not allowed on the zone:laughing::laughing::laughing:


Unless your screen name is Plumber.


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## Redwood

JoseM said:


> well, from the plumbing point of view there should'nt any charges for the broken cable or wire problem or if the machine stops working suddenly between working period. But if there is any serious problem occurs with the equipment than it can be chargeable for the person who is using it that time. first of all, the thing which is to be carry out what equipment is ! then what is the deal before starting work. I hope information is useful for you.


Hose em, Without an intro you are no one...

With an intro you'll be someone that makes posts that don't make sense...
But I wish I knew what you just said....:blink:


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## ChrisConnor

Funny thing about stuck cables, if my cable gets stuck, it's the fault of the pipe. If the competition gets stuck, it's always operator error and I can usually get it out. Lol

I always prequalify the problem as a "drain like failure", never a stoppage and say that it needs to be "cleaned out". Rodding is the first step in testing the line and is most often the remedy to the drainage line failure. If flow is established, the next step is a visual inspection.

I've had sewer lines that I've cleared with a double blade that would pass smoothly, but the video inspection found missing sections on the bottom of the pipe. Or there have been parts where the blades passed through with a little resistance and it would be assumed that it was just a bend, but there would be a deflection pressing in on the pipe.

As to the OP. Stuck cables are part of the problem and the customer's "drain line failure".


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## plbgbiz

ChrisConnor said:


> Funny thing about stuck cables, if my cable gets stuck, it's the fault of the pipe. If the competition gets stuck, it's always operator error and I can usually get it out....


Yep. 

Here's the thing....My blade is 3", the pipe is 4". I don't care what convoluted story the customer wants to imagine. If the cable hangs, there is something wrong with the pipe, not me. Get your checkbook and get over it.

Yes, some operators are more savvy than others and able to avoid disaster, but that still does not make faulty pipe the fault of the guy trying to help.


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## MTDUNN

plbgbiz said:


> This was wedged so tight that I had to dig it up to free the cable. Whose fault and who should pay?


Looking at the image, it would appear that the issue would fall under a clause that I had written on all of my invoices; that anything unforeseen inside walls and underground are not our responsibility and will be added to the cost. 

It appears that someone improperly installed a sewer pipe connection causing an obstruction. 

The property owner would then be responsible for the stuck cable due to unforeseen improper plumbing installation.


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## Redwood

ChrisConnor said:


> Funny thing about stuck cables, if my cable gets stuck, it's the fault of the pipe. If the competition gets stuck, it's always operator error and I can usually get it out. Lol


Always! :laughing:

The competition is always incompetent...

Here is where a well written hold harmless agreement signed before starting the job works very well...


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