# Wall hung toilets and other antique fixtures



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Here is a pair of what I think are pre war, wall hung toilets. One was missing the original lid and has a newer close-ish one not shown in the pictures. Also, the urinal, sink, and water fountain appear to be the same vintage. The water fountain was off but had a really new valve on it. I bet the drain is plugged.


I had to replace some fill valves and flappers. I also had to work on the hot tap because it wouldn't shut off. I re-did the cold tap as well. The washer on the hot tap was squashed so much outward I had to unscrew the stem from the washer screw and use needle nose to get it out. You can see it doesn't fit through the stem threads anymore. Those were on the 2nd floor. On the first floor they had a pair of newer central brass faucets which also needed washers and a couple new seats.


I love when an old building like this is owned by someone willing to keep the original fixtures working, within reason of course. I would love to have that water fountain.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

If I had to guess someone used a beveled washer on that hot stem when they shouldn't have. With a regular seat the beveled washer has sides which are too tall and thus aren't supported so they would have squashed outward. The water is also extremely hot especially for a 2nd floor, they must have that good OLD insulation on the pipes. Probably a pos washer too.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Here is a very cute corner sink with a pretty nice faucet. It was a couple weeks ago but I think it was a kohler faucet.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

You don't see stuff like this anymore.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Back in the day some little lady was one lucky housewife


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Ive had my share of those wall hung toilets and they suck..lol..I guess when new it wasnt as bad to balance and assemble, but after 50 years and that back pipe rots through and everything is corroded together what a pain to repair...I try to sell a new toilet but some people just love that old crap...


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

skoronesa said:


> You are talking old. Here is an old lead bend I took out. Only saw it once.
> 
> This lead bend was removed from a property on Hamilton Street in Allentown PA. This was in a real old home of an affluent citizen. Take note to the brass threads 4" soldered into the bend. The toilet that was mounted on this pipe had a 4" brass thread cast into the china. You greased the threads and screwed the bowl onto the piping. -- A former member of the PIPDL Rod Stein (now deceased) identified this type of toilet as being made by the Mott foundry in NJ There was no tank involved the toilet was flushed with a early vintage Sloan Valve.
> 
> I think maybe I posted this way back on the site?


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> skoronesa said:
> 
> 
> > You are talking old. Here is an old lead bend I took out. Only saw it once.
> ...


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Could you imagine standing there for an hour trying to screw the toilet back in instead of cutting open the mahogany parque ceiling below? I mean heck, it's bad enough trying to feed a long piece of black iron somewhere and get the threads to catch, never mind trying to bend over holding up a 50lb bowl and not mess up the fine thread soft brass.






.


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

Those are not really wall hung toilets, they are wall hung tanks, which were sometimes made out of wood. Wall hung toilets are truly wall hung bowls which are hung on a "carrier" embedded in the wall. 



We used to repair a leak from the flush el or spud using candle wicking.More recently, we do not repair them, it is either replace the toilet or nothing. 



The wall hung bowls are becoming popular for high end residential homes. I have a customer that has a home built around the 1970s or1980s who has wall hung bowls, but normal tanks.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

*

We used to repair a leak from the flush el or spud using candle wicking.More recently, we do not repair them, it is either replace the toilet or nothing. 
*

Ah another lamp-wicker heard from ... The best damn gasket packing material ever made. In the case of flush valve elbows and the connections to spuds in the bowls and the brass flush valves in the tanks. A piece of lamp-wick full strand about 30" long greased, looped then the loose ends wrapped in the direction the nut would tighten -- was about the best a plumber could do. I have seen that joint last for years and years. The rubber gaskets supplied got thrown out. We always called it lamp wick, I guess candle wick is proper ...


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

alson said:


> Those are not really wall hung toilets, they are wall hung tanks, which were sometimes made out of wood. Wall hung toilets are truly wall hung bowls which are hung on a "carrier" embedded in the wall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Yes, I mis-spoke. Wall hung tank toilets is the correct term. I am plenty familiar with wall hung bowls and complete wall hung toilets. I hate them. We have a nursing home around here with at least 100 of them. I regularly pull them and take out clothing or other textiles and hygiene products flushed by those who should be dead already. I think the term is "gomer".








.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

skoronesa said:


> Yes, I mis-spoke. Wall hung tank <snip>
> 
> I made have told this story on here in the past. But I am proud to tell it again.
> 
> In about 1961-1962 working as a brand new Journeyman, the job was in the 10 hundred block of Allen street, in Allentown. There was a leak on the spud going into the bowl the only fix was to replace the spud. to do this the wall hung tank had to be removed from the wall. The procedure was to sit oh the john backwards with your knees under the tank to hold the weight. When the bolts were removed the tank could be pulled away and set on the floor. Now during this process something dropped on the floor, when I got the tank under control I looked to see what I had heard drop. There was a shiny diamond ring. I put it in my shirt pocket and finished my work. I cleaned up and took the tools down stairs. When I got down the steps the owners both were there in the living room. I asked how long they had lived in the house? The lady said about 40 years they had moved in when it was brand new. I said well this probably belongs to you then. I reached in my shirt pocket and gave her the ring. You want to see a thankful customer get a ring back that she had thought got flushed away on her wedding night. I did and I will never forget my deed that day many many years ago.


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## Lickitlikeafritter (12 mo ago)

I know the thread is old but I might get the opportunity to rebuild this puppy sometime in the near future. She thinks the flush el is ugly and wants to replace it. I’m concerned it won’t go back together with just a new piece of pipe so I plan on having on hand a Douglas valve and a 2” spud as well.

My master said it’s been 15 years since he touched one but he remembers them being a pain. 

Anything to it I’m overlooking? I was thinking I just need big tubing cutters, my straight jaw wrench, spud wrench, and something to hold the spud possibly.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Lickitlikeafritter said:


> I know the thread is old but I might get the opportunity to rebuild this puppy sometime in the near future. She thinks the flush el is ugly and wants to replace it. I’m concerned it won’t go back together with just a new piece of pipe so I plan on having on hand a Douglas valve and a 2” spud as well.
> 
> My master said it’s been 15 years since he touched one but he remembers them being a pain.
> 
> Anything to it I’m overlooking? I was thinking I just need big tubing cutters, my straight jaw wrench, spud wrench, and something to hold the spud possibly.



*Assume you'll need all new parts. Spud, flush valve, flush ell WITH nuts/seals, and hanger bolts. *I completely rebuild a couple of these a year. I run into them enough that I stock all the parts for them.

Is a Douglas valve is a tank ball flush valve? If so I'd recommend against that. You can use a normal, 2" flapper, plastic flush valve. Replace the stock flapper with a Big Orange flapper. A Big Orange flapper will stay open until all the water is out and provide a proper flush.

*The biggest issue you might run into is the wood in the wall being shredded, nothing for the hanger bolts to screw into. *I carry standard sized 1/4" and 5/16" brass hanger bolts, as well as 3/8" steel hanger bolts in many sizes. I don't like to use regular lag bolts as you'll wear out the hole every time you remove the bolt.

Worst case you can cut a sheet of 3/8" plywood the same size as the back of the tank and screw it to the wall first. This will give you fresh wood to screw your bolts into. Ordinarily this would leave a gap where the tank lid meets the wall but clearly you're not dealing with the original lid. 

Alternatively you can screw a piece of angle iron into the wall just under the bottom of the tank to hold it up. This way the hanger bolts only need to hold it from tipping forward. 
*
Pull the bowl and make sure the wax seal/flange is all proper.* Nothing's more of a pitd than getting the tank all set only to find you have to pull it all apart again.

I use my Wheeler-Rex 4992 to cut the 2" tube. A regular pipe cutter should be fine too if the blade is sharp.


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## Lickitlikeafritter (12 mo ago)

I didn’t anticipate removing the tank from the wall or the bowl from the floor. Everything looks to be in pretty good condition. 
She hasn’t had any issues with it in the time of owning the house (~15 years). I suggested try to sand/strip the flush el but the woman wasn’t interested in that approach. Somebody had been it recently enough that there’s a flapper and a plastic fill valve in it already. Certainly not new though.

I assumed I might be able to wiggle in the valve after pushing the cut elbow first up through the tank then into the spud. Is this grossly unrealistic?


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Lickitlikeafritter said:


> .....
> . I assumed I might be able to wiggle in the valve after pushing the cut elbow first up through the tank then into the spud. Is this grossly unrealistic?


I've never done it that way. No plumber I know has suggested doing it that way. Yes, you might be able to do it that way, that doesn't make it right. If my helper wanted to do it that way I would tell them to stop being lazy and take the tank off. 
*
I suggest you bring a spud because I forsee the whole spud turning when you loosen or tighten that nut. Then the old rubber spud seal will crumble. Happens quite often.*

The only exception to this is top entry spud bowls with a flush pipe instead of a flush ell. The Kohler oem flush valves have no tits inside so you can slide the pipe through the flush valve and into the spud. But you have a rear entry spud and a flush ell.

Do it right or don't do it at all, that's my opinion. Wall hung tank toilets are rare these days. If you half azz it and it leaks a year from now they'll likely give up and junk it. I treat most antique fixture repairs as if I will be the last competent plumber they find who can fix it. That's often the case as most guys just say junk it and get a new one. I want my repairs to last so the fixture is preserved. But that's just me and I am in the extreme minority these days. You do you.


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## Lickitlikeafritter (12 mo ago)

I appreciate the input. Wasn’t trying to be lazy and pulling the tank certainly doesn’t scare me. Hence why I’m asking, I would like to do it right for the exact reasons you stated. It’s a quality example in great shape and I would like to preserve it as best as possible for its own longevity. As I said originally I’m going to go prepared with everything we both mentioned. And now that I know I will be pulling the tank I’ll probably take a fill valve and chrome supply line as well.


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## Lickitlikeafritter (12 mo ago)

Also you mentioned putting a plastic flush valve in? I was under the impression the shank was too short from talking to my master and a couple local supply houses. Said the all brass Douglas valve was the only way with the wall mount tank.

I should’ve done more investigating while it was in front of me I didn’t expect it to be much more involved than pulling the flush valve and working the el out.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Lickitlikeafritter said:


> Also you mentioned putting a plastic flush valve in? I was under the impression the shank was too short from talking to my master and a couple local supply houses. Said the all brass Douglas valve was the only way with the wall mount tank.
> 
> I should’ve done more investigating while it was in front of me I didn’t expect it to be much more involved than pulling the flush valve and working the el out.


I will only use a brass flushvalve when I rebuild them. With plastic the 2” nut doesn’t want to start or there’s not enough thread showing of the flushvalve for the nut to tighten up so you end up having to pack it with string packing as a filler. 

Now some plastic flushvalves may work but I haven’t found one that I will try to use in years

A two piece flush ell was available at one time so you could leave the tank on the wall.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

skoronesa said:


> Here is a pair of what I think are pre war, wall hung toilets. One was missing the original lid and has a newer close-ish one not shown in the pictures. Also, the urinal, sink, and water fountain appear to be the same vintage. The water fountain was off but had a really new valve on it. I bet the drain is plugged.
> 
> 
> I had to replace some fill valves and flappers. I also had to work on the hot tap because it wouldn't shut off. I re-did the cold tap as well. The washer on the hot tap was squashed so much outward I had to unscrew the stem from the washer screw and use needle nose to get it out. You can see it doesn't fit through the stem threads anymore. Those were on the 2nd floor. On the first floor they had a pair of newer central brass faucets which also needed washers and a couple new seats.
> ...



Those cut off valves are gorgeous. Same style/look today would run north of 200.00 per valve or more im sure.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Those cut off valves are gorgeous. Same style/look today would run north of 200.00 per valve or more im sure.


Have you checked into TRT therapy ?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Have you checked into TRT therapy ?


My wife says gorgeous a lot. Habit.


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