# Estimates



## BatonPlumbing (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello, everyone!!
I have a question and know that there are many variables involved and labor prices generally tend to be dictated by your location. I have only been in business for approx. two years. Had a GC take me for alot of money, so I am going to try and be more service oriented, Remodels, ect. and try to stay away from new construction. I live in NC, and have a labor rate of 65.00 per hour and service work is time and materials. When you guys price remodel work, do you base it on approximately how many hours it will take, cost plus 10% or do you have a set unit fixture price? Just still trying to figure out the most efficient way to bid work. For example on new work I was charging 300.00 per fixture, and was letting the gc provide materials, did not charge a fixture unit price for hose bibbs, or ice maker, because he was always beating me down on price anyway. For remodels labor was based at 350.00 per fixture.I would just like some help in figuring out how to price work in general. New Construction, under slab, repipe of water linesl, service, repipes, ect. Confused, and tired of wondering if there is an easier way that is fair to me and the home owners. For example home owner wants to repipe two bathroom house. I based it on 2.5 days at 10 hour per day, they already have purchased fixtures and some of the pipe, after estimate, then they ask how much more to replace three lav. faucets, two tub shower valves, and kitchen faucet???? I know from experience it will add approx 7 more hours to labor, but I am already cutting myself short because I am not going to be able to completely repipe in 25 hours anyway, plus it has a low crawlspace. Any help would be appreciated, frustrated and really need help figuring out how to price labor in all areas, new construction, remodels, drain cleaning, repipe, ect. I am also finding it hard to charge someone 65.00 to replace a flapper or rebuild a leaking delta faucet. Please I need help!LOL


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, I for one supply all my pipe and fittings. If they want to supply fixtures its ok as long as I have all the specs in advance. I would charge for the hours I think it would take plus material at retail. The whole per fixture thing you would have to see how that would measure up to how long you think it will take. 300 per fixture for a remodel seems low to me but everyone is different.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Figure out how many hours you are going to have in the job. 

Including:


bid time
ordering time
loading time
working time
unloading time
 Add all this time up and multiply by a profitable per hour rate that includes ALL your costs of doing business. 

Figure your material and material mark-up. 

Add these numbers together. Do not shave off time to try and get the job. Very seldom do remodels go faster than planned. 

Don't charge by the fixture. Field conditions vary wildy. There is no cookie cutter per fixture price. You are there looking at it. Figure out how long it will take you.

Track all your time on all jobs. Use these numbers to adjust your future bids and track profitability.

If you are not sure of how long it will take you. Err on the side of caution.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

For me I charge a flat rate for most service work. For remodels I charge T&M. If your fortunate enough to find a good contractor or two, develop a trusting relationship, after a few jobs they may not even ask a price because they know what range your price will be in when the jobs done. Also when you charge your contractors T&M they have more incentive to be ready for you, and not waste your time with any BS.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

ILplumber hit it right on the head. Besides, he used bullets points, that means it's important:laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I​
did​
the​
bullets​
just for​
that reason​
:laughing:​


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

I used per fixture base when I was bidding high end remodels and it worked out fine, I just made sure that I covered downtime in my per fixture rate.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I think you should charge by the hour and give them an approximate time it will take. Tell them if I run into a problem that will cause the bill to exceed this amount I will notify you and explain the problem. I find I get better customers this way and i've never been accused of being "slow". That way I know when I get in the truck,I'm making money no matter what happens on the job. If the customer talks alot and it takes longer then they pay for it....if they make me park in the street and walk 100 yards to the backdoor through 2 gates....they get charged for it. If they live across town and they want me their in rush hour traffic.....they will pay for that too. its all time and the meter starts running when I dispatch to the job and ends when i finish the invoice. yes I charge to write your bill too. The customer gets what they pay for and I make a profit everytime. If I wanna gamble I go to a casino....not rolling the dice on "Whats in your crawlspace"....like a brickwall from an earlier addition that I gotta break through to access under a bathroom. Everyones market is different and business goals are different. I like to keep prices above average and the volume down. I'm over trying to be everyones plumber in town.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Baton, you remind me of me when I was a kid. 

There comes a point in this business when you have to grow a pair and realize that you have to stop the customers from running your business and run it yourself.

There's always that feeling that if you quote too high you'll lose the job. It's a good feeling and it's true, especially when you don't have the confidence to look like you know what you're talking about when you quote a price. As Frank Blau might have said, it's time to bite the bullet.

Step 1 is learning what your hourly costs are, and they vary from company to company. This means listing every single thing that you spend to work - phones, computers, your wife's wages if applicable, gasoline, the next new truck you're going to buy, insurance, retirement, and don't forget a wage. Figure all those things per year.

Then figure your hours per year. In service, you figure three billable hours per day, 280 days per year. That's if you're swamped. In a one-man operation, you won't be likely to do more than that. The rest of the time is spent on running and managing the business. One day you get in eight hours, the next day you spend collecting it. Then next day you spend on the phone and replacing the radiator on your van. Etc, etc.

Now you've got fixed costs and if you know what you want your salary to be, you add that, do the math and come up with what you need per hour. Believe me, it isn't $65. That doesn't even cover your fixed expenses. Your truck is going to break and you aren't going to have any money to fix it.

It's a little easier when you're doing new construction because you know how long it will take you, on average, to plumb a house. You figure out to the penny how much money you have after you finish the job and then deduct your fixed yearly costs to find out your take. From that, you have to pay your fixed costs and your wages and profit. IT'S NOT ALL WAGES!

Are you any good at plumbing? Then price yourself at what you're worth. You are your biggest enemy. Or, as Richard Feynman said, "You must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest one to fool." Only you can figure out your costs. Calling around and finding out what the other plumbers are charging isn't much help. They may be clueless about knowing what it costs them to operate. They may have arrived at the number by calling around to see what everyone else was charging. This is how the "Going Broke Rate" develops.

The nice thing about a flat rate system is that you charge for everything you do. If the customer calls you for a repipe and you give a price, then he adds two tub valves, YOU ADD THEM ON. In new construction, maybe two hours. In remodel/repair, more like four hours each. You have to figure removal of the old, cutting, drilling, building the valve and mounting it in place, hooking it to the existing water, and then maybe coming back to put on the trim. It takes time to drive to the job. 

With flat rate, you price the tasks, each one spelled out on the invoice. There is no question that the additional work isn't included in the job. 

Example: replacement water heater may, if you choose, include a new valve and flexes. You need a pan? Add it on. There's a furnace and pipes and homeower's belongings in the way? Add for access. They see you pricing out of a book and figure they're getting the same price you would give anyone. They understand that the work needs to be done. Quote them the full price. If they want to call around, thank them for thinking of you and go on to the next one. They say they have a lower bid? Tell them that's fine, but you think you can do a better job and you'll stand behind the job.

Your earning years will be over before you know it. Don't sell your birthright for a bowl of pottage.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

While I don't run my own buisness these guys are right. You are being your own worst enemy right now. You say you bid a re-pipe for 25 hours but know it will take longer. Unless you have a good reason for doing that you're not going to make any money. At the last company we worked for we were working for a contractor who had another guy doing the heat at every house we roughed. 
Now we were perfectly capable of doing the heat but we were being undercut by as much as forty percent. This guy drove a 15 year old beat up van with no advertising on it, had old beat up hardly working tools, kept every tool and fitting he owned in potato sacks or five gallon buckets, then he cried to us about not making any money, he only had a few hundred bucks in his bank account, etc. Sometimes guys like that are going to low ball you and all you can do about it is try to build a reputation that people are willing to pay more for. What you never want to do is go down to their level and become that low baller who has to decide between dinner and an acetylene refill. Guys like that would be better off working for someone else then running their own buisness.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Unfortunately most business fail not because of poor service but because of poor business practices. Lots of good advice above, from guys that "been there, done that" 
Bottom line is that you have to know your ..... bottom line. You can NEVER base your labor rate and estimates on what the competition is doing. NEVER get used to being the cheapest guy in town because that's exactly what you will be for the short time you are in business. Get used to not getting every bid you put out and having folks hang up on you when you give them a price. There is no point in going to work to loose money. Worst part when you underbid is that because you know you are not making money, you tend to drag your feet getting the job done and as a consequence, loose even more money.

If the business end all seems too much, hire a business consultant or start going to business seminars until you feel comfortable with the paperwork. Failure to get a grip at this stage means total failure a short while later.


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## BatonPlumbing (Dec 30, 2008)

I appreciate all of the responses, I am by far not the lowest person in town and do not intend to be. I have worked very hard to get where I am at, I just have a heart, you know grew up in single home and watched my mom struggle to make ends meet. In my area the labor rate is between 45.00 to 125.00 approx. I guess the reason I have a hard time sticking to my guns, is the fact that I know if I can make 1200.00 dollars in a few days, that is more than most people in my community make in a month. With contractors its not a problem, I just bid the job and go on. I am starting to develop a very strong reputation in my community as an excellent plumber, who does exactly what he says he is going to do, in a timely manner. It just seems I get all of the older people, single moms, and friends, as customers. I am still new in this business and truly appreciate everyone taking the time to answer. I am blow away actually, you guys are great. I am thankful to be a part of this forum. quote: "your earning years will be over before I know it".........Now that one stopped me in my tracks. Plumbing is the easy part, running the business not so easy! But I am leaning, thanks again for all of the advice


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Exactly like NhMaster just said.

It seems that every plumber when he first starts out says he can do it cheaper than his old boss. Most say their old boss is a rip off etc. etc.

It takes them a few years (over 5 years, if they make it that long) to realize this isn't a charity event, it's a business. It's suppose to be run like any other business out there to make money. We're not doing this to be nice, to have a heart or to give it away to your neighbors grandma etc. 

We've all done it, I was proud that I was the cheapest plumber in town when I first started 20 years ago, at that time flat rate was almost unheard of. I said look at all the business I'm taking from the big boys! Man was I stupid then. Once you start giving it away then everyone will expect it, it's a hard cycle to break. Then when you do realize you're screwing the pooch it's too late, you're now known as a rip off when you raise your rates to your old customers.

You have to know your costs. The business should be making money, not just getting by paying the bills. You should never have to worry about paying bills, you should be able to pay them the day they come in, every single time. And at the end of the month you should have more in your checkbook than what you had at the beginning of the month even after paying yourself and all the bills. IF you're not there then there is something wrong.

I got lucky and made a major move to where I live now. I was already flat rate before I moved here and knew what I needed to do. I started with flat rate here and stuck to it. I don't do anything and I mean anything for less than 150 bucks. I don't care if it's replacing a flapper for the old lady on social security, it's 150 bucks plus parts, plus mark up etc. 

People know my work and I have a great reputation. Yes I do see all the time that folks try saving a buck and do it themselves or try hiring joe schmuck handyman but when they screw it up they know who to call and they know they will be paying for it to do it right. I love it when that happens and it does happen a lot.

Good luck, hope it works out for you.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Dude, making 1200 bucks in a few days is not good. You will be broke before you know it. You are not making 1200 bucks. You are billing 1200 bucks. If I want a ringer (a 40 hour paycheck) I have to bill $4000 a week. That's just labor. Anything we make on markup is so much gravy. Widows, orphans, single moms, war vets, yadda, yadda, yaddda. If you don't make money, you won't be able to be the guy who fixes their problem. I know. I had my own shop and I was too nice of a guy and I let people set my prices. I folded liked a Chinese laundryman. Now my boss has made it clear. I get paid by the hours I bill. Christ has told us that the worker is worthy of his wages. So don't think it's unchristian to charge enough to make a good wage, plus make a profit as a business owner. I speak the truth in love, bro.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

We need to make $ 1200 before noon to break even. :thumbsup:


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

BatonPlumbing said:


> I have worked very hard to get where I am at, I just have a heart, you know grew up in single home and watched my mom struggle to make ends meet. In my area the labor rate is between 45.00 to 125.00 approx. I guess the reason I have a hard time sticking to my guns, is the fact that I know if I can make 1200.00 dollars in a few days, that is more than most people in my community make in a month. With contractors its not a problem, I just bid the job and go on. I am starting to develop a very strong reputation in my community as an excellent plumber, who does exactly what he says he is going to do, in a timely manner. It just seems I get all of the older people, single moms, and friends, as customers.


I know how it is. But have you ever considered that your perceptions are wrong? Does it say, "Baton Welfare Service" on your truck?

I understand wanting to be helpful to people who don't have much. But dude, you can't be generous when you have nothing yourself and are skating on the edge of bankruptcy. Service work costs a lot more per hour to do than what you make per hour when you're plumbing houses. Remember what I said about 3 billable hours per day. That wasn't a guess.

So, you're working for older people, single moms, and friends. That sounds like what everybody does, and it's amazing how many friends you can have when you're a cheap plumber. What have those friends done for you lately?

The reason we work for older people in a distressed area is that anyone who can do it themselves is down at Homey and Lowe's buying their own stuff and doing their own work. Has anyone said to you, "I used to do that work myself until I couldn't get down anymore?" I hear it all the time.

Single moms have no choice. If they have a boyfriend, he doesn't have the skills to do the work. And he isn't paying for it. Sometimes, mom or dad might pay for it.

You need to know what it costs you to do business. If you have to work without a new truck, then you need to know what it's going to cost to replace the old one in a year or two with another used truck. If you have a little shed out back where you store your stuff, expect to still be in it thirty years down the road.

Long ago, a mealy-mouthed customer said to me, "You just work out of your house, so you can afford to work cheaper than the other plumbers." Sure, if I just want to work out of my house for the rest of my life. And as it's worked out, that's how it worked out. Your own family should not have to suffer because you have decided that you can't get more than $65 per hour. And I know that there are many plumbers out of work now. But if you can't charge what it actually costs to be in business, you can't be in business. 

For a while, I was higher than any other plumber in the area, though it didn't seem like much. And I never had any problem with the bill. I almost never encountered anyone who said that it was too much. When I found out that others were actually charging less than I was, I was amazed. Some had been in business longer than me.

I'm currently still lower than other flat rate companies, but higher than most of the people in my area. Neighboring cities have a lot of flat rate companies and I know some of them aren't going to last because they really are too high. There are limits in a small community. But my tickets are currently running about twice what they were a year and a half ago and I'm not getting turned down. Think about that. And realize that the little old ladies and single moms and friends are going to think it's a lot of money NO MATTER WHAT YOU CHARGE.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*herk's right*

no matter what we charge it is always to much money. if you charge more than they make at their $18.000.00 a year job, well it's to much money. also. don't charge more than the sales fliers for materials. breid


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

No matter what we charge were a rip off. 
I'm learning this as My business grows. Just smile and go to the next job. If Knew what All my competitors charged I would charge the same and get yelled at just as much, might as well make the same while getting called a rip off. You will learn as you go. I know I am. Don't be the cheap guy you will only get cheap customers.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

jjbex said:


> Dude, making 1200 bucks in a few days is not good. You will be broke before you know it. You are not making 1200 bucks. You are billing 1200 bucks. If I want a ringer (a 40 hour paycheck) I have to bill $4000 a week. That's just labor. Anything we make on markup is so much gravy. Widows, orphans, single moms, war vets, yadda, yadda, yaddda. If you don't make money, you won't be able to be the guy who fixes their problem. I know. I had my own shop and I was too nice of a guy and I let people set my prices. I folded liked a Chinese laundryman. Now my boss has made it clear. I get paid by the hours I bill. Christ has told us that the worker is worthy of his wages. So don't think it's unchristian to charge enough to make a good wage, plus make a profit as a business owner. I speak the truth in love, bro.


If it's in your heart to help orphans and widows, fine, great, we need more of that. So here's what you do, pick 1 needy person/family each month (while you are building your business) and go help them.

*EVERYBODY ELSE PAYS FULL PRICE 100% OF THE TIME!!!*

In the mean time learn how to run your business, not how to plumb, hopefully you already know how to plumb, but LEARN YOUR NUMBERS!!!

The more profitable you are the more charitable you can be.


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## cajunplumberjoe (Mar 26, 2009)

smells, couldnt have said it better myself!


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

When I first took over I bought and read "Where did the money go" by Ellen Rohr. Good book on the subject of making your business work for you profitable.


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

BatonPlumbing said:


> I live in NC, and have a labor rate of 65.00 per hour and service work is time and materials.
> 
> ...home owner wants to repipe two bathroom house. I based it on 2.5 days at 10 hour per day, they already have purchased fixtures and some of the pipe, after estimate, then they ask how much more to replace three lav. faucets, two tub shower valves, and kitchen faucet???? I know from experience it will add approx 7 more hours to labor, but I am already cutting myself short because
> 
> I am not going to be able to completely repipe in 25 hours anyway, plus it has a low crawlspace. Any help would be appreciated, frustrated and really need help figuring out how to price labor in all areas, new construction, remodels, drain cleaning, repipe, ect. I am also finding it hard to charge someone 65.00 to replace a flapper or rebuild a leaking delta faucet. Please I need help!LOL


First of all, understand something here. You do not have a job, you own a business. There is a huge difference. When you have a job, you do it, go home and that's the end of it. When you own a business, you work, then go home and work some more.

I see several problems with your attitude in your post. First of all, why have you settled on $65.00 an hour? That seems very low considering liability insurance, commercial auto insurance, license fees, auto payment, bank fees, etc.

If you think that you can earn a salary and pay your business expenses out of what you "keep", then you're sadly mistaken and going out of business quickly. I don't care how good your reputation is. You must make a profit or you're doing nothing but churning money.

As for bidding remodel work, there is only one way... look at each job and price accordingly. Pricing per fixture is ridiculous unless the work you're doing is mostly the same. Each remodel is different and poses its own problems and those problems must be priced accordingly.

You have a low crawl space, that means it will take more time to move from point to point and that hanging your pipes might have to be done between joists as opposed to under them. If so, you'll have to drill joists to go from one bay to another. Price accordingly. 

I also can't see only 7 hours for three lav faucets, a kitchen faucet and two tubs. That sounds low with demo. 

One piece of advice I can give you that has served me well is don't do anyone any favors they have not earned.

By this, I mean simply that you should never let your family suffer because of someone else's poor judgment. If they do not manage their money wisely, don't feel obligated to save their bacon. I have seen folks that have $10,000 in hunting ATVs, 4 wheel drive fancy pickups and all the usual man toys that go along with them, but complain that they don't have enough money to do the work they are asking for.

I have little patience for this type of thing. You shouldn't either. Small luxuaries for a struggling family are one thing, but living beyond their means is not your problem. Don't feel obliged to solve their problem for them if they are not interested in suffering along with you.

One other thing. Your family is the most important thing in your life, or should be. If you are just churning money instead of earning money, then you're not doing anyone any favors. Having your favorite plumber go out of business is just a nusiance to your clients, but its devastating to your family.


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## BatonPlumbing (Dec 30, 2008)

I am a business owner now, and realize that. I do have alot to be thankful for. I have been planning this for many years, and have all of my equipment and truck paid for; I just didn't run out one day and say hey I am going to start my plumbing business, with a pair of channel locks, and straight screw driver. I have sacrificed and planned diligently, to be where I am today. I just wanted some help, giving estimates, and obtaining new customers, from people who have been there and paid the price, time is money from my perspective all the way around. I truly want to be fair to myself, my family, and my customers. Again, I appreciate Some of your responses they have been most helpful. As for the estimate described in my first post, just an example of what I run across, this lady was retired, husband passed, copper pipe springing pin hole leaks monthly, ect, ect, ect. As for my labor rate its fair, could it be higher yes, if I want to price myself completely out of the market. In my area what I charge is near the middle to high range. In my opinion one extreme is no different than the other, both can cause you to end up out of business. So stop beating my balls about family values, being the cheapest. ect. ect. Yes, the reason I am here is because I want to provide a better life for my family, so how about preaching to me a little on how you obtain 15 service calls a day, or turn 4000k before dinner, and stop preaching to me about family values and Flat rate pricing, it does not work here RRooter uses it here and is despised, end of story. I simply needed help giving estimates, and just wanted some advice on extending my customer base. I have never advertised and not sure the best way to advertise, never dealt with being beat down on my prices, or people in the community coming to buy things from me to save a trip 15 miles to nearest Slowes, calling to borrow sewer tape, ect. and dealing with having to charge someone 72.50 to install a flapper on a commode, that I have all of 25 minutes total involved. Lenoir, was furniture capital of the World and now since furniture factories (All of Singer, Broyhill, Lazyboy, Kincaid, and most of Bernhardt) sold out to China, over 30,000 jobs lost here since around 1996. I am truly happy to still be providing for my family at all without being on welfare! After reading most of this forum, and not specifically finding the answer, I asked you guys for a little help, and didn't expect to get a slap on the face, or be told how much you make, and how stupid I am. Just wanted a little sincere help here!


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Going into business myself recently I have found that the yellow pages and the local papers are the best advertising for me. I also go to the liars table (where all the retired folks go in the morning to congregate and drink coffee) and hand out business cards. Word of mouth is the best way to go though. I don't advetise on the internet simply because I don't think many people use it enough to find plumbers. If you have advertising on your truck drive it around town and bring attention to yourself. Church bulletins are also a good way to go for me. Your rates should be competive to your area but ample enough so that you can run your business without going under. Omce in a while display an act of kindness especially to the elderly and veterans so the word gets out. If you are a veteran pass out cards at your local vet hang outs like the american legion and vfw. Veterans like to support each other. Hope this helps out some. Good Luck!!!!


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## NickTex (Jun 18, 2008)

BatonPlumbing said:


> I am a business owner now, and realize that. I do have alot to be thankful for. I have been planning this for many years, and have all of my equipment and truck paid for; I just didn't run out one day and say hey I am going to start my plumbing business, with a pair of channel locks, and straight screw driver. I have sacrificed and planned diligently, to be where I am today. I just wanted some help, giving estimates, and obtaining new customers, from people who have been there and paid the price, time is money from my perspective all the way around. I truly want to be fair to myself, my family, and my customers. Again, I appreciate Some of your responses they have been most helpful. As for the estimate described in my first post, just an example of what I run across, this lady was retired, husband passed, copper pipe springing pin hole leaks monthly, ect, ect, ect. As for my labor rate its fair, could it be higher yes, if I want to price myself completely out of the market. In my area what I charge is near the middle to high range. In my opinion one extreme is no different than the other, both can cause you to end up out of business. So stop beating my balls about family values, being the cheapest. ect. ect. Yes, the reason I am here is because I want to provide a better life for my family, so how about preaching to me a little on how you obtain 15 service calls a day, or turn 4000k before dinner, and stop preaching to me about family values and Flat rate pricing, it does not work here RRooter uses it here and is despised, end of story. I simply needed help giving estimates, and just wanted some advice on extending my customer base. I have never advertised and not sure the best way to advertise, never dealt with being beat down on my prices, or people in the community coming to buy things from me to save a trip 15 miles to nearest Slowes, calling to borrow sewer tape, ect. and dealing with having to charge someone 72.50 to install a flapper on a commode, that I have all of 25 minutes total involved. Lenoir, was furniture capital of the World and now since furniture factories (All of Singer, Broyhill, Lazyboy, Kincaid, and most of Bernhardt) sold out to China, over 30,000 jobs lost here since around 1996. I am truly happy to still be providing for my family at all without being on welfare! After reading most of this forum, and not specifically finding the answer, I asked you guys for a little help, and didn't expect to get a slap on the face, or be told how much you make, and how stupid I am. Just wanted a little sincere help here!


:blink: Sorry, but I read through this post and I can't find any slaps in the face. Instead, I find guys who are sincere about their careers offering you some very solid advice. They're telling you things that most people don't learn in business...ever. They are trying to give you a huge head start. And yet, by your last post it seems as if you're saying "nice try guys, but you couldn't possibly know what it's like to be in business in my area, with my customers, and my competition" and so on and so forth. You did say,



> Any help would be appreciated, frustrated and really need help figuring out how to price labor in all areas, new construction, remodels, drain cleaning, repipe, ect. I am also finding it hard to charge someone 65.00 to replace a flapper or rebuild a leaking delta faucet. Please I need help!LOL


Don't read any holier than thou tones into what these guys have told you, read the tones of men who have been on the verge of losing it all before they made the turn. Or men who for every one that has succeeded have seen countless others fail. In the recent economic climate I have seen men in my office EVERY SINGLE DAY who are closing up shop and seeking employment. Many of them are hundreds of thousands in debt because they did not price themselves to earn a living, only to float notes from one month to the next. At some point it will all come due. Several of them have lost wives and children along the way due to the stress that a failing business can bring to a marriage.

So Baton, don't get defensive or irritated, instead be glad that there is a place like this where we can learn from each others successes as well as failures.

If in your situation, with the goal of extending my customer base, I would start by doing some further research on my marketplace. citydata.com says that there are about 7,000 households (per the 2000 census) in Lenoir, NC and the median income per household is $31,206. That means that there is somewhere in the neighborhood of $218,442,000 floating around in Lenoir each year. 218 million just waiting to find Baton Plumbings checking account. Granted, you guys have lost some industry recently, but according to all of the data the population is still increasing. Get with your local Chamber of Commerce (or whatever you may call it) and get some more accurate numbers than what I've got. Additionally, home sales have decreased since this time last year. That isn't all doom and gloom though, what I find around here is that that means people are staying put and are willing to invest some capital in their existing homes. Toilet upgrades anyone? Tankless water heaters maybe? Is water quality an issue in your area? Would a targeted marketing campaign based on a higher ticket item work well in a particular area of town? I find when you can locate the people who are willing to spend on a bigger ticket item, the other "little stuff" (which you are still charging for) gets added in pretty easy. Soon you find yourself replacing every faucet in the house because old lady Jones is sick of looking at polished brass. The point of what I'm saying here is that first make sure your mind is right. Look at the bright spots of being the best service plumber in Lenoir NC. Just a quick google search shows me that if the RR boys are coming in, they're having to travel to get there. Raise your level of service. Pay some neighborhood kids to canvass some streets with coupons you print at home for a free plumbing inspection. Let everyone in town know that there is no reason to call RR, you've got it covered. Lenoir NC belongs to Baton Plumbing.

Roughly 7,000 homes in Lenoir, let's say for the sake of argument there are only 25% of those that are worthy of your plumbing skills (ie they are willing to spend money to maintain their plumbing systems, I think 25% is low, btw), that means there are 1,750 homes in Lenoir that are now your target audience. On Saturday evening at 6:30 you're going to walk one of these neighborhoods (maybe even a family outing, take the kids, etc?) and do it the old fashioned Southern Baptist Preacher way. Knock on some doors, "Hi there, I'm BatonPlumbing of Baton Plumbing and I just wanted to make sure that you knew we serviced all types of plumbing systems and can handle any repair, service, or remodel work you might have anytime you need us day or night. Here's a coupon for $20 off your next visit, I hope you never need me, but if you do don't hesitate to call!" Easy breezy. No hard sell, just a face to face intro. Start chipping away at your key demographic. Pretty soon the whole town feels like they know you and that you are "their plumber." No need to pick up the phone book, they know a guy.

Anywho, just my 2 cents do with it what you will, but just know, the potential for you to succeed is always there, imagine...and then make it happen.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

BatonPlumbing said:


> In my area the labor rate is between 45.00 to 125.00 approx. ,


If you know the high end is upwards of $125 then that is where you should be or higher.

Learn your true cost of doing business and I believe you are going to find out that at $65 you are barely making over minimum wage.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Baton,
do what we say and do. I really hope you make it. You gotta make money as an employees and owner. If not, go back to work for somebody else. I took 2 years away from my family and failed, because I didn't charge enough.


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