# puzzleing drain problem



## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

I went on a drain problem call back in september. My helper and I arrived ant the job and discussed with the homeowner on what was happening. Nothing was draining. I entered the crawlspace and looked over the drains, the piping was full. I said to myself "I"m not taking the cleanout plug out in this crawlspace" I'll auger it from the septic tank. We pulled the lid and it was completely full no room for another drop. So I advised the owner to contact a septic tank pumper company. 

Today he calls and said that he had the septic tank pumper out back in september and they said the tank was normal but pumped it anyway. Then they augered the drain at that time. They had to come out again to auger it. We installed the drains a year prior to a new bathroom. So he wants me to pay for these drain calls. Claims the septic guy says my plumbing is installed wrong, claims there is a 4 to 3 reduction in the line. I said no way, this I am sure of and the state inspector is sure of it too. 

After thinking about this I think he may have a drain field problem. Without a doubt the tank was full when we pulled the lid. However if the septic pumper guy showed up the next day, could the drainfeild slowly taken the excess water overnight? If this is the case this problem will rear its ugly head often.


A few things about this that gets me. If he had been having problems why did he wait nearly two months to call. Why is it that the septic tank pumper guys word is gospel and my words as a master plumber is wrong . Why did the system work flawlessly for nearly a year with zero problems if installed incorrectly. 


Any thoughts?


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

When you say full do me mean like getting ready to overflow or just at capacity. Common misconception of septics is that when they fill up that is the problem. A 1500 gallon tank will always have 1500 gallons in in, one gallon goes in one goes out. A good way to check this on an up to date system is dig up the inlet lid, if you can see the pipe coming from the house then the tank is fine and the clog is in the plumbing. If the line is under water than the issue is on the outgoing side of the tank. As a rule we never ever ever run septic lines from inside the house. Too many risks. We always dig up the inlet, diagnose and work from there.

Does he have a sand filter or a leech field? If he has a leech field I would look around at other homes on the area and see if they have a sand filter, can be easily spotted usually three 4" pipes sticking up from the ground near each other that resemble clean outs. If the neighbors all have sand filters and he is on a leech field (seen that before) than there is your problem. If I was you I would head there with a sewer camera, dig up the inlet, if your pipe is under water show him and then you guys both know its not the plumbing. If your pipe is exposed then camera back under the house and show him nothing is wrong.


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

When I say full, it is filled completely to the top pushing on the lid and the drain from the house is submerged and the drain going to the drainfeild is submerged. Full, if a gallon of water was poured in through the lid it would run over the top of the septic tank.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Take pics the next time you see it that full to cover your ass. The problem is in the drainage field. Is the company that is pumping the tank also the septic installer? Now if the tank is overflowing and then pumped out it is possible that your line is now clogged from debris not draining properly but that is not your issue as it is a result of the system not working.


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

thanks, I figured as much and wish I would have taken pictures. I tried calling the owner over to look at it but he didn't want too.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Have you dug up the tank outlet??? Most lazy azz tank pumper will just suck out the front inlet compartment.. then the scums will float into the rear compartment,hence,plugging the oulet..


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Why I mentioned sand filter vs leech field: before they can install a system around here they test the soils ability to absorb. If it passes then a leech field can be installed. If not then a sand filter. I have seen a newer system fail because it was a leech field when all the neighbors had sand filters. Dunno how that happened but it did


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Either:

The drainfield has a problem (Most Likely)
The customer is overusing the system (The Duggar Family doing the weeks wash on a single day)
There may be a plumbing problem in the house (like a bunch of very bad flappers)

I'd say it is on the septic guy to look a little deeper, but since he isn't maybe you'll need to meet him on the job to get this monkey off your back....


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Have you dug up the tank outlet??? Most lazy azz tank pumper will just suck out the front inlet compartment.. then the scums will float into the rear compartment,hence,plugging the oulet..


Correct. Around here a standard 1500 gallon tank has three lids. A small one for the inlet and another for the outlet but smack dab in the middle is a large lid that will allow the pumper to thoroughly clean the tank not just empty it. If it's deeper than two foot we always recommend riser install, make a couple extra bucks and saves time and money on future cleanings


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

I've considered going over and checking things out further. I know how septic tanks operate but generally don't work on them. Also the septic tank pumper guy has the owner convinced it's my drain work at fault that after spending 3/4 to a day working on the tank or drainfeild I will be hard pressed to get paid.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johnh said:


> I've considered going over and checking things out further. I know how septic tanks operate but generally don't work on them. Also the septic tank pumper guy has the owner convinced it's my drain work at fault that after spending 3/4 to a day working on the tank or drainfeild I will be hard pressed to get paid.


Ask the ho if the septic tank guy is a licensed plumber and what's autority for him to say that.. I wouldn't spend more than 2 hours top to find the problem with septic..


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

johnh said:


> I've considered going over and checking things out further. I know how septic tanks operate but generally don't work on them. Also the septic tank pumper guy has the owner convinced it's my drain work at fault that after spending 3/4 to a day working on the tank or drainfeild I will be hard pressed to get paid.


Hell if he is currently draining just camera from the inside clean out. If you run thru good clean pipe and see a concrete baffle then you are in the clear. If the house is on a crawl you might be able to do all this just visually.


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

I operate in a rural area, it's a hour drive there and a hour drive back. 

If I had not seen the septic as full as I did, perhaps there could be something amiss with the drains but beings I personally did the install, I don't see it. 

What I do see is a drainfeild problem. On high usage days the septic overfills mimicking a plugged drain,by the time anybody shows up the septic has slowly drained. The difference for me is when I was called, I went right then and found a filled tank.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johnh said:


> I operate in a rural area, it's a hour drive there and a hour drive back.
> 
> If I had not seen the septic as full as I did, perhaps there could be something amiss with the drains but beings I personally did the install, I don't see it.
> 
> What I do see is a drainfeild problem. On high usage days the septic overfills mimicking a plugged drain,by the time anybody shows up the septic has slowly drained. The difference for me is when I was called, I went right then and found a filled tank.


Dig up the rear outlet and tell us what u find


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Have seen a stupid looking filter installed inside the outgoing baffle before. Only seen em used twice and both times the filter was the cause of the clog


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

thanks for the replies. I have heard of those filters too.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Run the water full blast inside and pull the lid, you will see if it's a septic issue. Take pictures when it's full and let the customer know you don't F with leech fields. If the thing was about to overflow when you were there it is not a drain issue.

Have you had a spell of rain lately, or did the guy just put gutters on his house and run it towards the leech field, or did he just have a big truck deliver something before the issue started? Oh, and exit baffle, was it there?


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

I would tell the HO that if I come out and it is not a problem with my work then my fee will be $???? If something is found with my work than it will be corrected on my dime and I will pay the septic guys fee. But I will not be billing the septic guy if it's not my prior work and shall be paid right then on the spot. Oh yea any any debris in the line that was pushed back up the system does not count as my bad work.


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

Over the weekend when he left the messages it rained a bunch. The cricks are overflowing like they do in the spring after the thaw.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Sand filter or leech field is what I want to know before I speculate any further


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

johnh said:


> Claims the septic guy says my plumbing is installed wrong, claims there is a 4 to 3 reduction in the line. I said no way, this I am sure of and the state inspector is sure of it too.


Have mr septic man point out the reduction in size. Call him on that. You say there is a crawl space so it must be in view. You are the pro here, not him.


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

gitnerdun said:


> Have mr septic man point out the reduction in size. Call him on that. You say there is a crawl space so it must be in view. You are the pro here, not him.



Agreed, it don't exist on anything I installed or anything I installed into, this I know for sure.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Did you connect directly to the tank or did the installers?


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

I connected to the back of a 3 inch wye with a pvc MIP adapter. This is on a wye right at the wall before the main drain exits the crawlspace.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

So if am picturing this right everything you installed should be visible with the naked eye right?


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

Yes it's all visible. I'm presuming that the pumper guy never went into the crawl. More likely he said "perhaps" and that perhaps became gospel. Just a theory.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Sounds that way. If everything you did is visible and looks good then I don't see what the issue is. Tell HO to contact septic installers.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

johnh said:


> Over the weekend when he left the messages it rained a bunch. The cricks are overflowing like they do in the spring after the thaw.


No kidding! :laughing:

So what are they doing about their septic system?


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

Redwood said:


> No kidding! :laughing:
> 
> So what are they doing about their septic system?


trying to get me to fix it for free, LOL


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Simple answer for HO. You are a licensed plumber and the problem requires a licensed septic installed to rectify


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

So what ever came of this?


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