# I wonder. For coppermen only. No pex people



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I was at a job today, leaking copper water pipe. Pinhole in the pipe, no big deal. Shiot happens. House is 80+, was galv. I know who coppered it out, it was about 30 years ago. I'll fix it up tomorrow, it'll take about an hour. 

As I went into the basement, I look up and see some big ole' red and blue 3/4" pex. Obviously, the 1st floor bath was recently remodeled. Fixtures are all in the same location, looked like basically a freshen up. Someone cut out all the copper to this bath, and repipes it all wavy and snaky like. They could have just swapped out the valves and threw in a new moen posi-temp. Done. 

So I got to thinking. I wonder what some plumber is gonna say 30 or 40 years from now, when he walks down that basement and sees that big ole' colorful spaghetti mess. When I go into a basement now, and see copper, I think nothing of it. Yet when I see poly-b, I think Oh jeez. For the 1st 10 years of my career, It was all copper. 6 1/2 bath houses, Remodels, renovations, second story's, additions. It all got done. 

Not looking for no argument here. I use pex. All of the price gouger plumbers forced me into it. But, I use only white 20' straight lengths. I use tee's and el's, and it is strapped tight and straight. No bendy wavy crappy looking. I would just like to be a fly on the wall a few decades from now.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Whatever the material, The artist paints the picture...I'm just sayin'


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

It looks fine in new homes. Not many new homes around here so pex looks out of place to me in older homes. like flexible supply lines under a pedestal sink eye sore.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> It looks fine in new homes. Not many new homes around here so pex looks out of place to me in older homes. like flexible supply lines under a pedestal sink eye sore.


The worst is when you need to add an extension to the supply. What a mess. And an expensive one at that. 

The next step is whole homes done with pex-al-pex and push fittings. I can see in ten years, plumbers will look back an say, "Remember back in the day when we had to crimp those 3/4" T's? And it took them OVER a day to install all of the water lines? They were crazy"


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I use what ever the contract calls for. Or what the HO is willing to pay for. Either way, no snakey wavies, clean straight lines, tees and ells all the way.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> But, I use only white 20' straight lengths. I use tee's and el's, and it is strapped tight and straight. No bendy wavy crappy looking.


I'm old fashioned that way too. I do the same thing. Other plumbers think I use too many fittings. When you use pex in the mechanical room for heating though, unfortunately it gets all bendy wavy as soon as the heat hits it. But it looks beautiful again when it cools down.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

If I can't get into an argument with Ironranger over this, then there is no point :whistling2:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I use mostly L copper now . Don't do much new or remodel anymore and it just feels right !


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Cal said:


> I use mostly L copper now . Don't do much new or remodel anymore and it just feels right !


Ditto on the L copper. However, all I do is new and remodel and lots of them. I'm not ready for pex, or corrugated gas flex either. My guys just finished roughing in a house where they ran 3" black. A pain, but easy to sleep with once installed and tested.
My only deviation from this practice is butt fused polyethylene water and gas yard piping.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> I was at a job today, leaking copper water pipe. Pinhole in the pipe, no big deal. Shiot happens. House is 80+, was galv. I know who coppered it out, it was about 30 years ago. I'll fix it up tomorrow, it'll take about an hour.
> 
> Above the Mason/Dixon we Plumbers will have a Plastic/Pex salvation one day? For the past 10 years or so we have not had severe cold weather, like we have had in the past. Now in that 10 years a lot of plastic has been installed. When the freeze again occurs our salvation will be "Sorry Mamn but I cannot thaw those pipes electrically, you will have to wait until spring to get running water again". Hell we might have to bring back steamers. I wonder if the plastics will stand up to those temperatures?
> Now on the negative side of this, suppose a house was plumbed in copper. But some one has inserted some plastic in the system. Now we can't even thaw copper electrically. There should be some type of a code regulation stating that system contenunity cannot be compromised by inserting plastic into a metal system.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> RealLivePlumber said:
> 
> 
> > I was at a job today, leaking copper water pipe. Pinhole in the pipe, no big deal. Shiot happens. House is 80+, was galv. I know who coppered it out, it was about 30 years ago. I'll fix it up tomorrow, it'll take about an hour.
> ...


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

That is something people just don't understand.

It might not bust, but when PEX freezes you are all but useless to try to unthaw it.


Point to a wall where it is buried in and tell them to point the heater at it. ???

No conductive qualities to graze with a torch, and I certainly wouldn't try it given the fact that it could damage the longevity of the piping.


I am a plumber that has completely avoided CPVC, don't have one solvent weld joint to my name and that feels greeeeeeeeeeaaaat! 

I'm more than confident that my profession/location will keep me from having to succomb to fast and easy to get my job done.

I don't have to be competitive in that fashion. The new guys that come into this trade most likely won't be those who solder.

I knew from the years on the internet on these plumbing forums that I would see the trickle down with any product, and I'm not surprised on what I see with PEX.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I still dont see the big deal about soldering. A caveman can do it.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Anyone can solder, not many can solder well IMO. 

When there's water in the line, when there's combustibles near by, when the pipe is old and dirty, you need a pro.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Quoted from Roast Dunbar --I'm more than confident that my profession/location will keep me from having to succomb to fast and easy to get my job done. Un-quote


So we now have all these plastics yes. But what did the old, old plumbers use before 

" copper " made their job easier? Yup, threaded pipe. They had no choice, right? 

Just saying.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Anyone can solder, not many can solder well IMO.
> 
> When there's water in the line, when there's combustibles near by, when the pipe is old and dirty, you need a pro.


*WHO YOU GONNA CALL!* SlickRick!..

Kind of like this one today at the County Jail..

It's a 3" line, the angle makes it look like 3/4... I'm just sayin'™

I went Rambo on it!


http://


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Kind of like this one today at the County Jail..
> 
> It's a 3" line, the angle makes it look like 3/4... I'm just sayin'™
> 
> ...


I went Rambo on it! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Blacksmith (Oct 27, 2009)

"I wonder what some plumber is gonna say 30 or 40 years from now, when he walks down that basement and sees that big ole' colorful spaghetti mess."

How about, "No pinhole leaks here!"


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

slickrick said:


> *WHO YOU GONNA CALL!* SlickRick!..
> 
> Kind of like this one today at the County Jail..
> 
> ...


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plasticman said:


> So we now have all these plastics yes. But what did the old, old plumbers use before
> 
> " copper " made their job easier? Yup, threaded pipe. They had no choice, right?
> 
> Just saying.


We still install galv. waste and vent and water pipe here on occasion, if it were up to me every apprentice would have to do a screw pipe waste and vent for a four story building as part of his training, the lessons they learn on measuring accurately would make the time worth it.

That being said, PEX is not code approved in my area, I have never seen it installed in person, only in pictures. I know they have had problems with certain types of it here and in Europe, you don't have a whole lot of hype on the European problems because they do not have a tort style law system like we have in the US.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ive worked in Chicago for 10 years...galvy, copper, cast and Florida for 21 years...screw the macho copperman BS ( hehehe )


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## bchplumbing (Oct 24, 2009)

I like wirsbo pex. The last plumbing company I work for use it. As a matter of fact I have some pics of the jobs I did with it. I don't like all the waves and not looking nice and straight, either. 

One problem I had when I work for this company is that there was 10 employee's and only three including the owner knew how to cut and solder copper. the rest were groomed in pex and glue. They didn't have a clue.

I love copper though. as a matter of fact, I did a crawl and tied all of the fixtures in today, (all copper) so I am a little sore from being on my knee's and bottom all day. 

Right now I am working on some older homes on a military base. The maintnence company that takes care of them love shark bites and pex tubing. Some of these homes look really bad with the hodge podge. 

Big perk though I get a lot of free shark bite fittings.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Ive worked in Chicago for 10 years...galvy, copper, cast and Florida for 21 years...screw the macho copperman BS ( hehehe )


Why? I take pride and satisfaction in a doing a good job that most people can't do. One of the reasons pex is pushed is because it takes no skill and the contractors don't need "expensive plumbers." They can use "installers" instead.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

jjbex said:


> Why? I take pride and satisfaction in a doing a good job that most people can't do. One of the reasons pex is pushed is because it takes no skill and the contractors don't need "expensive plumbers." They can use "installers" instead.


 Thank you. This should never become a prozac topic. I mean ...only copper people know how to plumb...everyone else is bad for the industry..bad for the homeowner...bad for the trade...bad for the quality of water...bad for the health of the nation..bad for Chicago...(a little nostalgia) ..I miss IR at times.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Thank you. This should never become a prozac topic. I mean ...only copper people know how to plumb...everyone else is bad for the industry..bad for the homeowner...bad for the trade...bad for the quality of water...bad for the health of the nation..bad for Chicago...(a little nostalgia) ..I miss IR at times.


I didn't say copper were the only ones who know how to plumb. However, I bet if you look at the wages of plumbers, union and non-union, the wages are highest in the areas in the areas where plumbing is old school, and you have to be skilled in all phases of our dying trade.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

jjbex said:


> I didn't say copper were the only ones who know how to plumb. However, I bet if you look at the wages of plumbers, union and non-union, the wages are highest in the areas in the areas where plumbing is old school, and you have to be skilled in all phases of our dying trade.


Nolo contendre...Dont want the copper/pex issue to ever pass unchallenged without flushing out some of the predispositions of the pexaphobes..:laughing:..there is still an attitude of superiority that I love taking a shot at...just having some fun. It has yet to be determined how bad using plastic affects the overall senses of the plumber.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I have never ripped on pex users, I just don't like copper getting ripped on. I would love to see research to support my theory of higher wages in old school/high skill areas verse lower wages in pex areas. I could be wrong, it's just a guess.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

jjbex said:


> I have never ripped on pex users, I just don't like copper getting ripped on. I would love to see research to support my theory of higher wages in old school/high skill areas verse lower wages in pex areas. I could be wrong, it's just a guess.


You are probably right on. But there may be more criteria I suspect. What does Indianapolis allow...or LA..there are some high wages and prices supported there.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Dont know if you've ever driven to Florida for a vacation and stopped at a bathroom in Georgia off the highway. There is not a burning passion for cleanliness or proper function..but the vegetables are cooked right and the conversation is sweet and friendly...the cultures and needs of different areas are strong reasons for the disparities...and of course in Fla aggressive water is plentiful. Pricing would be lower here if copper was the only piping.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I don't mean that all pex users are low skilled. I do know that the non-union contractor associations like the idea of "installers" rather than plumbers. They would like pex installers, DWV installers, fixture installers, etc. Most franchise plumbers, who are almost all non-union push the idea of "techs" rather than plumbers. After all, a tech wouldn't need to be licensed, and want to be paid accordingly.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

In Florida one license covers everyone in the employ...no need for licenses...just cant be a 1099 sub or independent without licensing. The big box store could capatilize on this if it wasnt for fear of tort.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I will install any approved material , in a workman like manner. As for what the distant future will hold, I am not Nostradamas. I will be dead and gone and its your problem... but you can blame it on me!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

slickrick said:


> I will install any approved material , in a workman like manner. As for what the distant future will hold, I am not Nostradamas. I will be dead and gone and its your problem... but you can blame it on me!


 Its hard to ride the fence on this topic..... just sayin..( I wont overuse it)
It may come out that extinction of the plumbing trade as once historically perceived was natural evolution..and the passing of laws and the strengthening of unions and the desperate grasp at copper could have no way stopped the tide..or barely slowed it. What will it matter if the dollar fails or economy finds a new low or a catastrophe hits. That said, progress has hurt plumbers more than helped IMO. Back to the rant..somebody.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

jjbex said:


> I have never ripped on pex users, I just don't like copper getting ripped on. I would love to see research to support my theory of higher wages in old school/high skill areas verse lower wages in pex areas. I could be wrong, it's just a guess.


Higher wages have always been paid to higher skilled workers in all fields. Comparing wages from one area to another area is misleading as cost of living is a huge factor.

In Baltimore, MD there are a lot of old school/highly skilled (non-union) plumbers who are paid very well. My brother-in-law came up through the ranks as an old school plumber. However, he now does custom high dollar homes with PEX and on some of his repairs, he will use sharkbites. His rate of pay is still very high. His switch to PEX was dictated by the end users and local builders. His pay is high because he does excellent work and he has the experience to handle anything that he may encounter while plumbing.

If all you know how to do is run PEX like spaghetti, your pay will reflect that. If all you know how to do is set fixtures, your pay will reflect that as well. I wouldn't consider either of the above a plumber. A plumber is skilled in all areas of plumbing.

It's not fair to compare PEX runners to Plumbers. *Plumbers* who run PEX are a skilled group.

Devil's advocate here - old school plumbers who are up-to-date on all the latest technologies would be more valuable to me than old school plumbers who are resistant to any change. New school plumbers who only know how to run PEX would be of little use to me.

A well-rounded plumber is worth his weight in gold.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Its hard to ride the fence on this topic..... just sayin..( I wont overuse it)
> It may come out that extinction of the plumbing trade as once historically perceived was natural evolution..and the passing of laws and the strengthening of unions and the desperate grasp at copper could have no way stopped the tide..or barely slowed it. What will it matter if the dollar fails or economy finds a new low or a catastrophe hits. That said, progress has hurt plumbers more than helped IMO. Back to the rant..somebody.


I agree. I have my opinion on quality and craftsmanship,but the in the name of "progress" manufactures don't agree and they seem to drive the market. In Texas, plumbers lost LP, Septic and irrigation to other agencies in the past due to changes we would not adapt to. If we are not careful they will form a hackmaster agency and we will lose other systems.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

jjbex said:


> .........push the idea of "techs" rather than plumbers. After all, a tech wouldn't need to be licensed, and want to be paid accordingly.


Not to get off topic but thanks for that jjbex. :thumbsup:

I am insulted if thought of as a technician.

The guy who changed my oil yesterday was a tech. I'm a proffessional! Call me Plumber.


On topic......

I don't have any experience with pex. it is not code approved where I plumb. 

Every job I see with it looks cheap and horrible to me. Then again, so does plastic dwv.:whistling2:

Soon we all will be plasticators instead of plumbers. When that day comes I will hang my head low and answer to tech.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Plasticman said:


> Quoted from Roast Dunbar --I'm more than confident that my profession/location will keep me from having to succomb to fast and easy to get my job done. Un-quote
> 
> 
> So we now have all these plastics yes. But what did the old, old plumbers use before "copper " made their job easier?
> ...


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Sewer, drainage, vent:

Cast iron, Galvanized (Durham Sysyem), Copper DWV, Stanless Steel, (using copper fitts) Bronzite (using copper fitt's) Plastic (Abs) (What was the one by Genova ABS on the outside PVC on the inside 
(ABS fitt's & Glue -- Super V?), PVC No Hub Cast Iron , Transite, Orangeburg and lead.

I think that's about it. [/quote]

No glass? You must be a rookie......J\K


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Quite showing off yer crack pipe man.



Airgap said:


> Sewer, drainage, vent:
> 
> Cast iron, Galvanized (Durham Sysyem), Copper DWV, Stanless Steel, (using copper fitts) Bronzite (using copper fitt's) Plastic (Abs) (What was the one by Genova ABS on the outside PVC on the inside
> (ABS fitt's & Glue -- Super V?), PVC No Hub Cast Iron , Transite, Orangeburg and lead.
> ...


No glass? You must be a rookie......J\K
View attachment 3567
[/quote]


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

To be totally honest, I have never used pex, don't know how and really am not crazy about learning how. Yes, I am from the old school. I admit it, I am scared of it. Not to bash anyone who does but it looks " tinker toy " to me, but I still consider myself a plumber whether or not some may disagree. 
Around here I think builders are turned on by pex for the fact that they think it can be installed cheaper therfore saving them money. Personally I don't know if it is cheaper than lets say, cpvc because like I said, I don't use it so have never priced it. The only reason I use cpvc instead of copper is because copper went sky high in price and switched like everyone else. Some went to pex, some to cpvc. Running cpvc is just like running hard copper. The sizes are the same. You just glue instead of solder. Never had any problems with it under slabs and I know I have done at least 100 houses with it.
How do you run pex in a slab? You don't, Am I correct? So it all HAS to be ran overhead or drilled through the studs? Unless someone can convince me otherwise I say no thanks. Just saying. 
Ok, am ready for the scolding. :laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Plasticman said:


> To be totally honest, I have never used pex, don't know how and really am not crazy about learning how. Yes, I am from the old school. I admit it, I am scared of it. Not to bash anyone who does but it looks " tinker toy " to me, but I still consider myself a plumber whether or not some may disagree.
> Around here I think builders are turned on by pex for the fact that they think it can be installed cheaper therfore saving them money. Personally I don't know if it is cheaper than lets say, cpvc because like I said, I don't use it so have never priced it. The only reason I use cpvc instead of copper is because copper went sky high in price and switched like everyone else. Some went to pex, some to cpvc. Running cpvc is just like running hard copper. The sizes are the same. You just glue instead of solder. Never had any problems with it under slabs and I know I have done at least 100 houses with it.
> How do you run pex in a slab? You don't, Am I correct? So it all HAS to be ran overhead or drilled through the studs? Unless someone can convince me otherwise I say no thanks. Just saying.
> Ok, am ready for the scolding. :laughing:


They use pex under slab here... loop it and go. a lot over head.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Pex can be run in a slab. It is commonly tied to reinforcing wire, and encased in concrete for radiant heat. 

Now go to your room. You've been a bad plumber:laughing:


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

There are some who run it in the slab..just needs protection from UV. Florida new work went cpvc crazy and in a few years the brittle truth will be known...thats what we used on all the new work until a year ago or so. Pex is not cheaper. For us at the time the nail holes and missed walls( not plumbers fault always ) was a kill a couple birds with one stone issue. Couldnt get a back charge, and spend hours fixing split cpvc was enough. 
Pex is better for a repipe in my opinion having done it with cpvc also.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

ok, keep convincing. I am not there yet. :bangin:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You can run pex under slap. You have to sleeve it where it penetrates though.

Why would you like cpvc over pex? 



Cpvc is destroyed by almost every chemical out there. Vegetable oil (even in smoke form), roofing tar, wd-40 (and other lubricants), contact with type NM cables (Romex), silicone grease, caulk, pesticides, 1/2 of the pipe dopes on the market.

It does not resist hammer like pex does.

It does not resist freeze breaking like pex does.

It becomes brittle after about 10 years due to leaching of plasticizers.










Do I need to go on? 





Plasticman said:


> To be totally honest, I have never used pex, don't know how and really am not crazy about learning how. Yes, I am from the old school. I admit it, I am scared of it. Not to bash anyone who does but it looks " tinker toy " to me, but I still consider myself a plumber whether or not some may disagree.
> Around here I think builders are turned on by pex for the fact that they think it can be installed cheaper therfore saving them money. Personally I don't know if it is cheaper than lets say, cpvc because like I said, I don't use it so have never priced it. The only reason I use cpvc instead of copper is because copper went sky high in price and switched like everyone else. Some went to pex, some to cpvc. Running cpvc is just like running hard copper. The sizes are the same. You just glue instead of solder. Never had any problems with it under slabs and I know I have done at least 100 houses with it.
> How do you run pex in a slab? You don't, Am I correct? So it all HAS to be ran overhead or drilled through the studs? Unless someone can convince me otherwise I say no thanks. Just saying.
> Ok, am ready for the scolding. :laughing:


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

I don't know. Who would be using vegetable oil near their water pipes? Or silicone grease? Oils, grease, silicone and dope.... Are we both on the same subject? :laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I have pictures of several CPVC failures that where caused by chemical contamination.

1. Guy was doing his own shower valve rebuild and shot WD-40 into the valve body and it caused the connected cpvc lines to burst later on. They became soft and swollen and busted.

2. Similar situation to #1, guy shot wd-40 on the valve doing a rebuild and got it on the exterior of the cpvc pipes and the same thing happened.

3. Lady had her house mobile home repiped in cpvc and 5 years later she had an exterminator come in and spray for bugs. He got some of the pesticide onto the pipe coming up thru the floor of the kitchen cabinet and shortly thereafter it melted and flooded her kitchen causing thousands of $ of damages.

4. Commercial kitchen. Workers spilled cooking oil on a stainless steel counter and it ran down behind the backsplash soaking the stub outs. They split (actually made the pipe brittle, not soft) and flooded the place luckily there was a floor drain near by.

5. I have seen several breaks due to re-roofs being done in a home that had already been repiped in cpvc and tar fell on the pipe from the roof deck. The tar caused the pipe to become brittle and split flooding the home causing tens of thousands of dollars in damages.

6. I have seen cpvc split in commercial kitchens just from exposure to smoke from cooking grease and spatter.

I can keep going if you like. Give me a few minutes and I can dig up a few pictures for you.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I knew you could do it. I had problems in a restaurant kitchen.


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## ROTOR KING (Oct 7, 2008)

my personal opinion on pex,is that it doesn,t make it eazy,for the service guy.Theres so many brands out there,not every fitting is compatible,pliers are different,and you don,t know long term effects.Some early 80,s brands have been known to crack,and I here Ki tech is off the market.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ROTOR KING said:


> my personal opinion on pex,is that it doesn,t make it eazy,for the service guy.Theres so many brands out there,not every fitting is compatible,pliers are different,and you don,t know long term effects.Some early 80,s brands have been known to crack,and I here Ki tech is off the market.


I know what your saying about this evolution thing. I made a repair today on some of the first Genova junk. It was already brittle..


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Here are some shots of the mobile home flood.


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## Turd Burglar (Sep 26, 2009)

I just finished a copper water service today. One reason I got the job, is that I was one of the only contractors to recommend copper and give her a high warranty. Everyone else wanted to use cheapo pvc. I personally hate pvc for underground pressure lines. Although I make a lot on repairing it.

The only materials I like to use for water is copper, brass and pex.
polybutylene, cpvc and pvc are too brittle imo. Galvanized rusts too much.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

So am I a bad plumber to say I only have to warranty my work for one year? Then you can come in afterwards and repipe with pex right? How long has pex been around to know what perils it too may face? All I know about pex which I admit I am dumb about is it scares me that a crimping tool out of adjustment can mean a catastrophy. And using a gage? Come on. More convincing please. Pics not necessary but if you feelin skippy......


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I would agree with what you said except about the copper. Our water doesn't get along well with copper so I try to avoid it. When I do use it I use ONLY water soluble flux on type L and I ream my cuts. Even then, I try to avoid it.



Turd Burglar said:


> I just finished a copper water service today. One reason I got the job, is that I was one of the only contractors to recommend copper and give her a high warranty. Everyone else wanted to use cheapo pvc. I personally hate pvc for underground pressure lines. Although I make a lot on repairing it.
> 
> The only materials I like to use for water is copper, brass and pex.
> polybutylene, cpvc and pvc are too brittle imo. Galvanized rusts too much.


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## Turd Burglar (Sep 26, 2009)

Protech said:


> I would agree with what you said except about the copper. Our water doesn't get along well with copper so I try to avoid it. When I do use it I use ONLY water soluble flux on type L and I ream my cuts. Even then, I try to avoid it.


Yeah, here L or K copper will LAST the long haul. I cringe at m copper though, too thin and asking for trouble.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Split male adapter.still searching.....



Plasticman said:


> So am I a bad plumber to say I only have to warranty my work for one year? Then you can come in afterwards and repipe with pex right? How long has pex been around to know what perils it too may face? All I know about pex which I admit I am dumb about is it scares me that a crimping tool out of adjustment can mean a catastrophy. And using a gage? Come on. More convincing please. Pics not necessary but if you feelin skippy......


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## Turd Burglar (Sep 26, 2009)

My experience with cpvc tells me its the worst pipe out there. I am amazed its legal at all. It shatters to pieces so easily. Why not use something more durable?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Small split on the coupling on the left. I suspect from termiticide exposure (can't prove it though). The green stuff sprayed everywhere.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Split on inside of 3/4" cpvc 90 under slab on hot line. I suspect it was the combination of thermal expansion stresses and pooled glue inside the fitting.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

one of the pieces from the wd-40 shower valves.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

OK, I rest my case


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Some of that seems to be your hypothesis on the causes but I am not scientist either. The wd-40 picture almost looks as if it froze but I do not doubt what you are saying. The pic with the split coupling is the same coupling I warned about using in an earlier thread. These couplings are supplied with washer and ice maker boxes. They are shorter than ordinary couplings. I have had them split in my hand while glueing one on to a section of pipe. I throw all of them alway now.
Ok, so when do we hold a pex installation training class? I am game.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Sign a non-compete for Polk county and I'll teach you anything you want to know.

Where to buy, the best materials to use. How to sling it fast and still produce a high quality installation etc etc.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

PEX is cross-linked polyethylene. I've been using poly for water services for the entire 34 years I've been in business. I can't remember seeing a failure of the pipe. I have seen failures in thinner poly and I have seen failures with iron connectors and I've even seen the cheap brass insert fittings crack, but not the service weight poly pipe. 

That does not mean it's never failed, but just that I have not seen it.

As to PEX - I've installed a lot of it and have had no problems. And I've just used what was available. Pipes that I repair are usually iron, cast iron, or copper.

I have seen bad ABS. There have been bad batches of it. And PVC made from recycled plastics can be very problematic.

But of all the types of pipe I've used since 1966, PEX seems to be the least trouble free. Unfortunately, it's also quiet easy for an amateur to install.

But like all things plumbing, training and experience, and caring about the quality of the work, mean that we do it right. It isn't hard to learn, but there are installation standards that will add to longevity and prevent problems. (Check your crimps, every one; it expands and contracts, too!)


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I think you ment "most" right?



Herk said:


> PEX is cross-linked polyethylene. I've been using poly for water services for the entire 34 years I've been in business. I can't remember seeing a failure of the pipe. I have seen failures in thinner poly and I have seen failures with iron connectors and I've even seen the cheap brass insert fittings crack, but not the service weight poly pipe.
> 
> That does not mean it's never failed, but just that I have not seen it.
> 
> ...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Protech said:


> Sign a non-compete for Polk county and I'll teach you anything you want to know.
> 
> Where to buy, the best materials to use. How to sling it fast and still produce a high quality installation etc etc.


Dang Son! :laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Hey that's just how it is. He's licensed in the state of Florida. What's to prevent him from nudging me out of my own turf once I've taught him all I know?


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Ok. I think I see where I was confused. I thought pex was poly. Or poly was pex. I have seen poly fail, did not realize there was a difference. Guess it all makes sence now. Told ya I didn't know anything about it.
And as far as me, a one man only operation, there is a better chance of you winning the lottery than me to come to your area to do plumbing on my own. 
Fax me the paperwork. I will sign it and fax it back notorized. So when's my first day of school? 
Seriously, no one in this town seems to want to help train another. What can they fear from a 52 year old fart? Just gimme 3-4 new construction jobs a week here and I am happy as a pig in shieot. 
My best builder wants me to go with them to a different city to do like 50 houses. He said he wants to try to get 5 starts a week. Don't know if I am interested cause I may not can keep up. Besides, it's 180 miles from here. ( no not Polk county ). That's like 4.5 - 5 hours from me. But he sure does pay good. Oh yea!!!!


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## Jplmrshark (Oct 28, 2009)

Ive done an entire development with pex home runs once you get used to running it you are talking a major time saver and with the home runs the service guys love you!


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

I will check back with Protech later to see if I need to buy some training materials like #2 pencil, notebook, highlighters, etc. 
I have internet, fax, computer cam, all that and am ready for class. ( seriously ) .
I bet he's gonna tell me to go buy a pair of crimpers first. I have to save up.


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