# Using 3" (sch30) 90's for a p trap ?



## Boomer! (Feb 24, 2012)

I know this seems like a dumb question but I have been doing some part time work (commercial new construction/remodel) for a company and the owner insists that I use them for a indirect waste for a 3 compartment sink over a 3" (Sch 40) glue trap. Under Michigan IPC it says under 1002.4 that a trap seal shall not be greater than 4". I have had an Code Official fail the 90's for a trap for before due to that code. I measured it and the trap seal is real close and the 90's actually raises the height to high for me to keep a proper air gap.

My question is how many of you actually use 90's for a trap ? This is something I am not comfortable doing only because I don't want a red sticker. Do I go against my better judgement and listen to this guy ? He is the owner and all however I have no commitment to work for him permanently as I am only helping him get caught up on things. 

Opinions ?
Maybe I am just being to critical, I am anal about my work.

BTW, feel free to raze me I can handle it.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Whats the problem they dont sell Ptraps in your area


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

In our code I'm positive it says something about the trap being smooth on the inside to keep people from making p traps , why you trapping an indirect waste on a 3 compartment sink.


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## Boomer! (Feb 24, 2012)

playme1979 said:


> In our code I'm positive it says something about the trap being smooth on the inside to keep people from making p traps , why you trapping an indirect waste on a 3 compartment sink.


I should have said floor sink, sorry jumped the gun on my explanation. I do recall reading reading that about traps smooth on the inside but I thought that was directed at integral traps. Looking at code book now.. LOL


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## Boomer! (Feb 24, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Whats the problem they dont sell Ptraps in your area


If that were the case it would make more sense to me.

I think this guy is worried about spending $22 on a P-trap ? Honestly these are all questions I have asked myself. He couldn't give me a reason other than "he does it on every job". 

I am apparently not the only Plumber that thinks using 90's to manufacture a trap is completely moronic. :thumbup:


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Boomer! said:


> If that were the case it would make more sense to me.
> 
> I think this guy is worried about spending $22 on a P-trap ? Honestly these are all questions I have asked myself. He couldn't give me a reason other than "he does it on every job".
> 
> I am apparently not the only Plumber that thinks using 90's to manufacture a trap is completely moronic. :thumbup:


In some situations you have to, this doesn't sound like one. Do it, let it fail and collect more money for fixing it when it doesn't pass.


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## Boomer! (Feb 24, 2012)

504Plumber said:


> In some situations you have to, this doesn't sound like one. Do it, let it fail and collect more money for fixing it when it doesn't pass.


Not trying to make an argument but please give me a situation that would "have to". I cant think of any and I have done my fair share of new construction over the last 17 years. 

My biggest concern is that I have met the Code Official and have a decent history of work in the city, I really do not care to tarnish it.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Boomer! said:


> Not trying to make an argument but please give me a situation that would "have to". I cant think of any and I have done my fair share of new construction over the last 17 years.
> 
> My biggest concern is that I have met the Code Official and have a decent history of work in the city, I really do not care to tarnish it.


Don't know if you have many drum traps in your area. If you do, ever had to change one on a second floor bath where the exit line is touching the floor? A 2" trap with bushing and male trap adapter is way too tall to fit onto the tub drain. In a new construction situation there is no excuse, in repairs they are sometimes necessary.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> Don't know if you have many drum traps in your area. If you do, ever had to change one on a second floor bath where the exit line is touching the floor? A 2" trap with bushing and male trap adapter is way too tall to fit onto the tub drain. In a new construction situation there is no excuse, in repairs they are sometimes necessary.


You beat me to it 504.

Here we have a lot of lead drum traps that from beginning to end span 12 to 24 inches. They are often snaked around some immovable object. I suppose it always possible to tear everything down and rebuild it but in service work that is not always a realistic option.


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## Boomer! (Feb 24, 2012)

504Plumber said:


> Don't know if you have many drum traps in your area. If you do, ever had to change one on a second floor bath where the exit line is touching the floor? A 2" trap with bushing and male trap adapter is way too tall to fit onto the tub drain. In a new construction situation there is no excuse, in repairs they are sometimes necessary.


Good one ! I have actually run into that in some house in downtown Detroit and a few in the northern metro areas. I have seen them cemented in the floor 2nd floor, a 4" cement floor with 1" of mortar and tile. They are unpleasant for sure. Naturally those houses always seem to be the people that don't have money or have the "other plumberman" that can fix it for $50 :laughing:


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

condensate drains on ac unit we use 90s for the p traps


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I am thinking my code states you can NOT build a P trap, you must use a pre fab p trap only


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Bill said:


> I am thinking my code states you can NOT build a P trap, you must use a pre fab p trap only


Why is that? Evr try pull apart the primered/glued fittings 'p' trap? I refuse to compromise floor joints just for one piece trap. And those elbow comes with the trap are too short raduis like vent elbow are a fking joke when trying to rod thru them.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Why is that? Evr try pull apart the primered/glued fittings 'p' trap? I refuse to compromise floor joints just for one piece trap. And those elbow comes with the trap are too short raduis like vent elbow are a fking joke when trying to rod thru them.


Just got to have correct machine. They make them you know. I can sell you one. Just kidding. Trap 90 is short, but it's good stuff main. Ju no Wuddi mean main??


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Bill said:


> I am thinking my code states you can NOT build a P trap, you must use a pre fab p trap only


Interesting. However here in Michigan, field constructing your own P trap is perfectly fine. Our code is based off the 2009 IPC. Don't know much about Virginia code requirements, I admit.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Boomer! said:


> I know this seems like a dumb question but I have been doing some part time work (commercial new construction/remodel) for a company and the owner insists that I use them for a indirect waste for a 3 compartment sink over a 3" (Sch 40) glue trap. Under Michigan IPC it says under 1002.4 that a trap seal shall not be greater than 4". I have had an Code Official fail the 90's for a trap for before due to that code. I measured it and the trap seal is real close and the 90's actually raises the height to high for me to keep a proper air gap.
> 
> My question is how many of you actually use 90's for a trap ? This is something I am not comfortable doing only because I don't want a red sticker. Do I go against my better judgement and listen to this guy ? He is the owner and all however I have no commitment to work for him permanently as I am only helping him get caught up on things.
> 
> ...


Boomer- We are somewhat close to each other. You are allowed to field construct your own trap. 3- 90's total should be fine. I use to make them with 2 streets and 1 HxH.SInce you are a 15th year Licensed plumber in Michigan, I am somewhat surprised you do not already know this. Remember 2" min, 4" max for your seal!


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

revenge said:


> condensate drains on ac unit we use 90s for the p traps


I agree with on that but that is another situation where that is not a plumbing fixture nor is tied into the plumbing system


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## Boomer! (Feb 24, 2012)

swedishcharm21 said:


> Boomer- We are somewhat close to each other. You are allowed to field construct your own trap. 3- 90's total should be fine. I use to make them with 2 streets and 1 HxH.SInce you are a 15th year Licensed plumber in Michigan, I am somewhat surprised you do not already know this. Remember 2" min, 4" max for your seal!


I do know the codes, I knew this one off the top of my head. He (the owner) wanted to use all 90's which would have made the trap seal over 4". Also as stated to me by my friend (Code Official) there are not supposed to be any partitions in the trap, he returned my call this morning. He said he usually allows them in most situations (2 st +1 hxh), it depends on the company and if the Plumber is doing clean work.

I finished the job today and used a 3' p-trap and had the room I needed to allow an air gap. The job actually turned out nice and the owner of the building was very pleased. I am not a plumbing GOD nor do I claim to be but I do try to keep up on the code and always make sure my jobs looks like artwork. 

Thanks again everyone for your opinions and advice. Really I expected more criticism (lol) but I do appreciate hearing what others think.:thumbsup:


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

playme1979 said:


> I agree with on that but that is another situation where that is not a plumbing fixture nor is tied into the plumbing system


Where do you run your ac drains to that you have to trap them and don't run them to the plumbing system?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> Where do you run your ac drains to that you have to trap them and don't run them to the plumbing system?


You trap them to stop any air to escape or enter the forced air system

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Boomer! (Feb 24, 2012)

revenge said:


> condensate drains on ac unit we use 90s for the p traps


They actually have those prefabbed too, I see them all the time on new construction sites.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

504Plumber said:


> Where do you run your ac drains to that you have to trap them and don't run them to the plumbing system?


what old school said and our ac drains are ran indirect into a hub drain


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

Boomer! said:


> I do know the codes, I knew this one off the top of my head. He (the owner) wanted to use all 90's which would have made the trap seal over 4". Also as stated to me by my friend (Code Official) there are not supposed to be any partitions in the trap, he returned my call this morning. He said he usually allows them in most situations (2 st +1 hxh), it depends on the company and if the Plumber is doing clean work.
> 
> I finished the job today and used a 3' p-trap and had the room I needed to allow an air gap. The job actually turned out nice and the owner of the building was very pleased. I am not a plumbing GOD nor do I claim to be but I do try to keep up on the code and always make sure my jobs looks like artwork.
> 
> Thanks again everyone for your opinions and advice. Really I expected more criticism (lol) but I do appreciate hearing what others think.:thumbsup:


There is nothing wrong with trying to please a customer. But you must know when to draw the line! Why in the world would your client requested P traps made from 90's???? Careful on how much you let a client get involved. Especially requesting what freaking type of fittings you use.

Glad it worked out for ya though. Take care!


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## Boomer! (Feb 24, 2012)

wyefortyfive said:


> There is nothing wrong with trying to please a customer. But you must know when to draw the line! Why in the world would your client requested P traps made from 90's???? Careful on how much you let a client get involved. Especially requesting what freaking type of fittings you use.
> 
> Glad it worked out for ya though. Take care!


Not the client, sorry for the misunderstanding, it is the guy I have been helping to fill some of my down time since it has been a bit slow. I wouldn't let a client pic anything other than fixtures and I even try to influence them a little so they don't buy junk.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Boomer! said:


> Not the client, sorry for the misunderstanding, it is the guy I have been helping to fill some of my down time since it has been a bit slow. I wouldn't let a client pic anything other than fixtures and I even try to influence them a little so they don't buy junk.


Ahh, Gotchya. I was interpreting it the way Wye was too.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

I know the.code here unless I'm mistaken is minimum 2" from weir to bottom of trap


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