# Pedestal sinks



## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

I mean really.....wtf?.....why me? I have had a run on them lately.....evil things.The last one was someone who insisted I not drill into the tile....ok...one tube of liquid nails later....do not call me if it ever starts leaking from the drain. They were happy....I took the cash.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PinkPlumber said:


> I mean really.....wtf?.....why me? I have had a run on them lately.....evil things.The last one was someone who insisted I not drill into the tile....ok...one tube of liquid nails later....do not call me if it ever starts leaking from the drain. They were happy....I took the cash.


Oh I HATE those . I think of pedstal as useless as ties on mens' suit.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Amen!


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

I don't mind them. I've taken to not using brackets and bolting them directly to the wall.

Loose at first, a little silicone in behind, the foot partially installed to get the drains all hooked up. Then slide the foot in place, torque the bowl down - Bob's your uncle.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

It's not so bad really if you have the right tools. Just takes a little more time. So add an hour to the invoice. Money is all green. I wouldn't use liquid nails on tile though.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

Ugh despise them


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

MTDUNN said:


> It's not so bad really if you have the right tools. Just takes a little more time. So add an hour to the invoice. Money is all green. I wouldn't use liquid nails on tile though.



They insisted I use some type of glue rather than bolting to the wall....so thats what made them happy....they were worried about a couple holes....now wait till that thing has to be pulled loose. I told them all that before I started.....they agreed....soooo....:whistling2:


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> They insisted I use some type of glue rather than bolting to the wall....so thats what made them happy....they were worried about a couple holes....now wait till that thing has to be pulled loose. I told them all that before I started.....they agreed....soooo....:whistling2:


Acrylic caulk or silicone would have been the way to go. At least someone has a shot at getting it off without ripping down tiles.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

PinkPlumber said:


> I mean really.....wtf?.....why me? I have had a run on them lately.....evil things.The last one was someone who insisted I not drill into the tile....ok...one tube of liquid nails later....do not call me if it ever starts leaking from the drain. They were happy....I took the cash.


If the install instructions say to bolt to wall, they live with that or get another stooge.


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

I installed one the other day, used my cordless hammerdrill on my ridgid drill with no problem.

I make sure I silicone the bottom of the drain on the gasket as well, because once you get everything on you just know you are going to get a leak from there!

Silicone the pedestal to sink connection, silicone the pedestal to floor connection and around the sink and it's going nowhere!


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> I mean really.....wtf?.....why me? I have had a run on them lately.....evil things.The last one was someone who insisted I not drill into the tile....ok...one tube of liquid nails later....do not call me if it ever starts leaking from the drain. They were happy....I took the cash.


So, you went against the manufacturers installation guidelines, eh?

Exactly how do you warranty something like that?

I'm all for giving the HO what they want -- So long as it isn't illegal, immoral or doesn't invalidate the warranty.

Unless the HO provided the fixture, of course, in which case I'm more than happy to invalidate the warranty.

As for tile work -- I encourage the HO to squirrel away a few extra tiles from the same batch in case they need to make a few alterations down the road.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

MarkToo said:


> I don't mind them. I've taken to not using brackets and bolting them directly to the wall.
> 
> Loose at first, a little silicone in behind, the foot partially installed to get the drains all hooked up. Then slide the foot in place, torque the bowl down - Bob's your uncle.


That's pretty much what I do. A secret ingredient when using a chrome trap is clear silicone on the SJ nut and washer. Silicone is very slippery when still wet and gives you that extra 1/4-1/8 tightening turn on the SJ nut.

And no, I'm not saying you should goober it up -- Just a little bit for lubrication.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> So, you went against the manufacturers installation guidelines, eh?
> 
> Exactly how do you warranty something like that?
> 
> ...



There is no warranty. I wasn't going to do it once they said no holes....they asked if i could "glue" it instead, and I told them it would trash their tiles anyway, prolly rip 'em right off the walls...they agreed I would not be responsible for that if there was a leak in the future. I don't like doing things the way I wouldn't do them in my own house....they were strange people.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> That's pretty much what I do. A secret ingredient when using a chrome trap is clear silicone on the SJ nut and washer. Silicone is very slippery when still wet and gives you that extra 1/4-1/8 tightening turn on the SJ nut.
> 
> And no, I'm not saying you should goober it up -- Just a little bit for lubrication.


Megaloc works just the same I know what your getting at though


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> There is no warranty. I wasn't going to do it once they said no holes....they asked if i could "glue" it instead, and I told them it would trash their tiles anyway, prolly rip 'em right off the walls...they agreed I would not be responsible for that if there was a leak in the future. I don't like doing things the way I wouldn't do them in my own house....they were strange people.


Very nice I assume you have documentation covering your arse lol


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> Very nice I assume you have documentation covering your arse lol



Triple copy..:thumbup:


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

I measure the pedastoul and then cut a 2\4 a 1" bigger. Use that wood to hold up the sink, make all my connections and then slide the ped in place.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Pedestals are VERY easy. Use a punch on the tile, drill holes, uses toggle bolts if there isn't wood, and install sink, faucet, and drain as you would anything else. 

No need to silicone around the drain, do you do that on others? Do it right and it won't leak. 

I used to hate pedestals but they are a piece o'cake now. I can install a kohler memoirs pedestal in about 45 minutes. From opening box to caulking. 

Not trying to impress but geese, there's nothing to it


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Pedestals are VERY easy. Use a punch on the tile, drill holes, uses toggle bolts if there isn't wood, and install sink, faucet, and drain as you would anything else.
> 
> No need to silicone around the drain, do you do that on others? Do it right and it won't leak.
> 
> ...



Yeah....HO wouldn't let me drill.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> Yeah....HO wouldn't let me drill.


I know, I understand, but you know what's gonna happen if that sink falls off the wall....phone'll be ringin!


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Your documentation is worthless. You freely admit that you knew you installed a product improperly. If the sink does fall and on a kid who do you think will be awarded? Remember you are the professional.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Your documentation is worthless. You freely admit that you knew you installed a product improperly. If the sink does fall and on a kid who do you think will be awarded? Remember you are the professional.


Not to worry...it's going nowhere.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I saw a pedestall fall on a four year old when the were pulling on it to get their tooth brush nocked out four of his front teeth some smart plumber thought the same thing it wasnt going no where


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Pedestal sinks are a breeze if you rough them in right, they beat the hell out of trimming floating cabinets with vessel lavs on them, most of the time you barely have room for the trap in those things.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Your documentation is worthless. You freely admit that you knew you installed a product improperly. If the sink does fall and on a kid who do you think will be awarded? Remember you are the professional.


I have to agree.

I'd refuse to install the sink, instead tell the H/O to go with a vanity or get someone else.

I might lose the job, but if so, the customer wasn't worth having to begin with, people generally follow suit on repeat biz, if they want cheap or cut corners once, they want it the next time as well.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

No amount of documentation will save you from doing something potentially unsafe. Even if I didn't do it originally, and I find something like that I get it signed off. Even if you are 100% correct and have the paper to prove it judges like to side with the poor innocent homeowners instead of the evil contractor.

If I can't do the job safely I don't do it at all.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> No amount of documentation will save you from doing something potentially unsafe. Even if I didn't do it originally, and I find something like that I get it signed off. Even if you are 100% correct and have the paper to prove it judges like to side with the poor innocent homeowners instead of the evil contractor.
> 
> If I can't do the job safely I don't do it at all.



Well....see ....I am here to learn from you guys....point taken, good lesson learned....next time I WILL refuse the job....cuz you guys are right....:thumbup:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I can set them well . ,,, I JUST DESPISE THEM !!! 

Who thought it was a great idea to stick a big ass piece of china right in from of everything ? 
Oh yeah ,,, probably the same A-Hole who thinks we have tons of room for a hook up under a dishwasher ,


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

you mean to say you can't use a wax seal to hang a pedistal sink ???


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> you mean to say you can't use a wax seal to hang a pedistal sink ???


Not anymore.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> Not anymore.


Dam how times have changed ....


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> you mean to say you can't use a wax seal to hang a pedistal sink ???


Use putty. 










Mighty putty.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Dam how times have changed ....



Foam?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> Foam?


Only if it's the expanding kind.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> Only if it's the expanding kind.



Gots me three kanz of it.....


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Use that quick drying cement


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

*Saved for posterity*

What a silly Sunday this has turned into.:laughing::thumbup::jester:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I am starting to see double


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

My better half just came home with a set of low voltage lights that i guess I am to instal while being watched from the comforts of the A/C....I was looking forward to a day of....nothing.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> I am starting to see double


You robbed that avatar of one of its 9 lives, OS.:jester:


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Pedestals are VERY easy. Use a punch on the tile, drill holes, uses toggle bolts if there isn't wood, and install sink, faucet, and drain as you would anything else.
> 
> No need to silicone around the drain, do you do that on others? Do it right and it won't leak.
> 
> ...


 

doesn't that Kohler pedestal come with a cast iron hanger ?
most of the cheapo(sorry , builder's grade) pedestals come with a steel hanger bracket that isn't worth a "&%$7"(even if the sink is hung on hanger and bolted to the wall.)

also, most of the el cheapo sink and stand combos are not cast very well and it's hard to get the two china sufaces sit flush and level.(pedestal top to sink bottom)

a pedestal sink is designed to hang on the wall with the base as a cover to conceal plumbing
or the sink is designed to sit on top of the base as a structural support.

with the poor casting and uneven surfaces it's hard to achieve a decent install

also a problem with some less expensive pedestal stands: they don't cut the back of the pedestal base low enough to receive the trap and arm


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

HOMER said:


> doesn't that Kohler pedestal come with a cast iron hanger ?
> most of the cheapo(sorry , builder's grade) pedestals come with a steel hanger bracket that isn't worth a "&%$7"(even if the sink is hung on hanger and bolted to the wall.)
> 
> also, most of the el cheapo sink and stand combos are not cast very well and it's hard to get the two china sufaces sit flush and level.(pedestal top to sink bottom)
> ...


We set about 15 or 16 St. Thomas ped lavs back in '99 -- We had to shim the pedestals in order to get them to look plumb and then shim the lav's on top of the pedestals in order to get them to look plumb.

We would do a dry run with shims and then shim/glue the two pieces together with Portland cement.

The toilets were even worse -- We had one that had sagged a good inch before being put in the kiln to be fired. Hard to believe somebody took the time to glaze and then package that abortion.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

HOMER said:


> doesn't that Kohler pedestal come with a cast iron hanger ?
> most of the cheapo(sorry , builder's grade) pedestals come with a steel hanger bracket that isn't worth a "&%$7"(even if the sink is hung on hanger and bolted to the wall.)
> 
> also, most of the el cheapo sink and stand combos are not cast very well and it's hard to get the two china sufaces sit flush and level.(pedestal top to sink bottom)
> ...


No, there is no hanger on any of the 3 sizes it comes in. And I've never had any of those issues. It mounts well, leg slide right in, and there is plenty of room to hook up the trap. A 30" memoirs is about $600. Not el cheapo


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

HOMER said:


> doesn't that Kohler pedestal come with a cast iron hanger ?
> most of the cheapo(sorry , builder's grade) pedestals come with a steel hanger bracket that isn't worth a "&%$7"(even if the sink is hung on hanger and bolted to the wall.)
> 
> also, most of the el cheapo sink and stand combos are not cast very well and it's hard to get the two china sufaces sit flush and level.(pedestal top to sink bottom)
> ...


I also kjndove like brackets. Just like every wall hung lavi in commercial bathrooms. Mounting the bracket and installing is pretty straight forward and works well


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

IF you are forced to hang a bracket and there is no backing...These are the type of anchor I use. Puts the old style toggle to shame. The weight rating is crazy for drywall.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

I have used those before they are delicate until it's set


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> IF you are forced to hang a bracket and there is no backing...These are the type of anchor I use. Puts the old style toggle to shame. The weight rating is crazy for drywall.


What are they called?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> I mean really.....wtf?.....why me? I have had a run on them lately.....evil things.The last one was someone who insisted I not drill into the tile....ok...one tube of liquid nails later....do not call me if it ever starts leaking from the drain. They were happy....I took the cash.


 I would rather pay somebody else to do it! Lol If thats what they want I guess I will do it begrudingly! I will also if they have no storage space for towels mention their foopah first! Damn they have that figured out too double damn!


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Michaelcookplum said:


> What are they called?


 Toggle bolts ?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Michaelcookplum said:


> What are they called?


We call them 'Togglers' around here.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

pilot light said:


> Toggle bolts ?


Didn't know that plastic thing was called a toggle as well, thought this was a toggle.

So maybe there is another name for that plastic one??


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

It's true name is SnapToggle. If they're installed correctly they are reusable and as I said have a huge weight rating. Someone said they're delicate, that's not what I've found, they use a 3/16" up to 1/2" bolt of your choice . 

I've never used anything for drywall as good as these.

Here's the link...http://www.toggler.com/products/snaptoggle/overview.php


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Didn't know that plastic thing was called a toggle as well, thought this was a toggle.
> 
> So maybe there is another name for that plastic one??


 Thats the one shiney devils!:thumbsup:


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> I mean really.....wtf?.....why me? I have had a run on them lately.....evil things.The last one was someone who insisted I not drill into the tile....ok...one tube of liquid nails later....do not call me if it ever starts leaking from the drain. They were happy....I took the cash.


Where in VA do you plumb?


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

Titan Plumbing said:


> IF you are forced to hang a bracket and there is no backing...These are the type of anchor I use. Puts the old style toggle to shame. The weight rating is crazy for drywall.


I've never personally used these but ive had coworkers tell me they work extremely well. I'll be adding some to my just-in-case parts bag.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> It's true name is SnapToggle....


We use them mostly on grab bar installations. They are great for sink brackets. :thumbup:

The ability to remove the bolt without the anchor moving is awesome!


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Yep the togglers work great! Used prolly 50 of them in a school fixing falling drinking fountains and not one is off the wall yet!


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> We use them mostly on grab bar installations. They are great for sink brackets. :thumbup:
> 
> The ability to remove the bolt without the anchor moving is awesome!


Nice, I'm gonna search for those next time I'm at Homey


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

revenge said:


> I saw a pedestall fall on a four year old when the were pulling on it to get their tooth brush nocked out four of his front teeth some smart plumber thought the same thing it wasnt going no where


Pedestal lavs. were not made for children PERIOD! Then again, not much is. Vanity bases with drawers become step ladders for little ones. Swivel spouts and children don't mix either. Shower curtain rods? Let's just say your's truly found out the hard way that shower curtain rods are NOT meant for gymnastics. :no:

Life is a risk and operating a business is no different. You take risks everyday. Absolutely nothing you can do to prevent a lawsuit. One crazy customer with a lot of time & money on their hands is all it takes. Defending a frivolous lawsuit would put most small businesses out of business in short order.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

I really hate when you are working on a house and the HO is tryin to tell you how you should do something, like they know how to do it but can't physically do it so that why they hired you. They hire you to follow their directions cause they don't have the time or the tools to do it themselves. Ive here that story a few times! I do things my way or I don't do it


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

*Right tools make it eaiser*

Boy what you can do to a channel lock for pedestal installation.

http://parrsplumbing.blogspot.com/s...d-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=4

Click on tools for plumbers in the index, scroll down to pliers


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Michaelcookplum said:


> I really hate when you are working on a house and the HO is tryin to tell you how you should do something, like they know how to do it but can't physically do it so that why they hired you. They hire you to follow their directions cause they don't have the time or the tools to do it themselves. Ive here that story a few times! I do things my way or I don't do it



I actually do some repair work for an old retired plumber. He just can't get his body to allow him to lay under things and do these kind of gymnastic moves anymore. He sits around and talks while I work, but never tells me his way...guess he knows about that from experience.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Boy what you can do to a channel lock for pedestal installation.
> 
> http://parrsplumbing.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=4
> 
> Click on tools for plumbers in the index, scroll down to pliers


That's awesome, I'm going to cut a pair today!


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Phat Cat said:


> Pedestal lavs. were not made for children PERIOD! Then again, not much is. Vanity bases with drawers become step ladders for little ones. Swivel spouts and children don't mix either. Shower curtain rods? Let's just say your's truly found out the hard way that shower curtain rods are NOT meant for gymnastics. :no:
> 
> Why would one be doing gymnastics in the shower?....wait......never mind...


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