# K400 what!?!!!



## dragit

Hey guys. Im a plumber out of central Wyoming.

We acquired a litter of k400's and a k-7500 when we bought out a local plumbing joint.

Well the last month the sewer calls been coming in like crazy.

This job was a house a lady just bought a couple weeks ago and was told the entire sewer had been replaced last year (unfortunately our company did the work and I had to inform her we didn't even look down the main to the street, let alone replaced it).

I couldn't find a clean out, so pulled a toilet. Line was 3" and I haven't had much luck feeding the cable on my 7500 through 3" bends. I gave it a go and struggled to get it down the line. I hit the blockage and pulled back some roots so I went back in. This time I got her stuck good enough I had to call someone bigger than me to break it loose.

After that struggle I called the plumber who did the work and he told me where a clean out was (contractor sheet rocked over it). Due to the location and again, it being 3", I decided to try to work it out with the k400....

Hours later I had FILLED a 5g bucket with roots. 

I ordered a k60 with 5/8 and 7/8 cable the next day lol


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## Tommy plumber

dragit said:


> Hey guys. Im a plumber out of central Wyoming.
> 
> 
> *This job was a house a lady just bought a couple weeks ago and was told the entire sewer had been replaced last year (unfortunately our company did the work and I had to inform her we didn't even look down the main to the street, let alone replaced it).
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered a k60 with 5/8 and 7/8 cable the next day lol


 









Am I reading this correctly? Does this mean that she was ripped off?


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## dragit

By the previous home owner. Yea dude. 

The entire interior of the building was indeed, totally remodeled. Even the sewer under the slab. But the main to the street was left untouched as the owner did not apparently feel that was something they needed to spend money on


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## dragit

That being said, the line runs under the driveway.... And the driveway (and all landscaping) is obviously untouched.

She opted to take their word and didn't have any house inspections done. Nothing. So yeah, she got stuck with 20ft of roots and a wicked sewer cleaning bill


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## Tommy plumber

I cleared a main line stoppage today with some roots. My K60 came through.


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## dragit

I've never ran a sectional. But I can see so many benefits to one I decided to order one without trying it.

I needed something less than the k7500 (not to mention I'm 150lbs, and hauling it around is a PITA)... And the k400 is such a joke I definitely needed something to take its place.

To clarify, 95% of this 5g bucket of roots I got, I used the k400 to remove.

Was a lot of work and got stuck once (twice including when I stuck the k7500), but I got it clear.


I'm newer to rodding, and basically no training. So it was a big accomplishment for me lol


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## Redwood

With a k-400 that's got to be the ultimate working harder not smarter tale with those roots...

You're a better man than I...


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## marc76075

I honestly can't think of a good use for a k-400. It's to big for sinks and doesn't have the balls to do anything against a hard stoppage. I couldn't imagine pulling those roots out with a k-400, talk about a battle.


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## Tommy plumber

dragit said:


> I've never ran a sectional. But I can see so many benefits to one I decided to order one without trying it.
> 
> I needed something less than the k7500 (not to mention I'm 150lbs, and hauling it around is a PITA)... And the k400 is such a joke I definitely needed something to take its place.
> 
> To clarify, 95% of this 5g bucket of roots I got, I used the k400 to remove.
> 
> Was a lot of work and got stuck once (twice including when I stuck the k7500), but I got it clear.
> 
> 
> I'm newer to rodding, and basically no training. So it was a big accomplishment for me lol


 









Since you say that you didn't have much if any training, here is some advice: run an auger head that scrapes the walls of the pipe of any roots left clinging after you think that you've cleared the stoppage.

Then run copious amounts of water down the drains and sewer line to see if it'll back up. If for some reason it is going to back up again, you want it to do that while you're there. Not later that night or a few days later.

On my call today, after I cleared the stoppage, I had the lady run both bathtubs from 2:00 until 2:30 as well as flush the toilets numerous times. I told her, "I don't want to get that call from you that it's backed up again and I know you don't want to make that call."


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## dragit

I have no training by anyone I would consider a professional (at sewer cleaning). 

I couldn't honestly tell you what auger bit is the ideal choice for a given job. And hat is something I'm struggling with. Reading the forums Iover the past 18 months has clued me in on a few things that one would think would be a no brainer. 

But I'm a pipe fitter and plumber. I've been thrown to the wolves by my step dad. Service work has slowed so I have been taking every single sewer cleaning job that calls in. This is partly how I convinced my old man to allow me to order the machine I *think* I wanted (k60)

Please do give me every tip, trick, or anything (even if it seems like common sense) that would help a greenhorn out. 


I had 4+ hours fighting these roots. And most of it was brute strength. I think it could have been done in half the time with the right knowledge (and machine)


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## wharfrat

Nobody is stronger than the cable. Use the machine not brute force when you get stuck. Your back will thank you... kinda


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## Redwood

dragit said:


> I had 4+ hours fighting these roots. And most of it was brute strength. I think it could have been done in half the time with the right knowledge (and machine)


If you had success with that dinky little machine and cable with those roots you either have great skill or luck....

You should do well with a machine that has some testicular fortitude...


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## plumberkc

PZ & Ridgid Forum classes for beginners. Giving out free plumbing advice to newbies and DIY'ers to ensure a saturated market stays that way. Good job everybody.


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## marc76075

plumberkc said:


> PZ & Ridgid Forum classes for beginners. Giving out free plumbing advice to newbies and DIY'ers to ensure a saturated market stays that way. Good job everybody.


Correction: The k-400 is the ONLY machine to use! Its the ultimate drain cleaning device. It works for every size drain line and for every type of stoppage. If you can't get it with the k-400, it's time to do a total line replacement. 

Better?


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## dragit

Redwood said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had 4+ hours fighting these roots. And most of it was brute strength. I think it could have been done in half the time with the right knowledge (and machine)
> 
> 
> 
> If you had success with that dinky little machine and cable with those roots you either have great skill or luck....
> 
> You should do well with a machine that has some testicular fortitude...
Click to expand...

Thank you! Read a lot of your post here. I certainly hope your right. My forearms are still killing me from this job 



plumberkc said:


> PZ & Ridgid Forum classes for beginners. Giving out free plumbing advice to newbies and DIY'ers to ensure a saturated market stays that way. Good job everybody.


I am a journeyman plumber who has started back in late 2005. I've been doing it nearly my entire adult life.

My step dad has been doing it longer than I have been alive.

Now a lot of these snakes we have collected as we bought other companies tools and equipment up over the years (as they go out of biz or retire).

We own 3 k400, a k380 (or two. seems like basically a k400 without wheels), at least two junk k40s, Two k45s, a k7500 (my favorite when it's 4" or bigger. Cable is too stiff and too much work on 3"), a small litter of broken general drum machines (recently acquired when step dad bought his step dads company), a slew of urinal and stoal augers. I'm sure I'm missing some in there somewhere. I also just ordered a k60 with 7/8 and 5/8 line.

We have 4 master plumbers, at least 4 journeyman, and a few apprentices. We also offer 24/7 on call service. I'm no newbie.... I'm no master, but your not talking to a first year apprentice. 

But, because I want to learn to use the equipment we have owned for years, and be more capable and efficient at the work I'm already doing, you run your mouth about newbies. Well this newbie yanked 15-20ft of roots out of a 4" cast main with a k400 with a dinky cable without breaking the cable OR flipping it.

Besides that. I'm pretty sure plumbers have been helping out other plumbers and sharing experiences with each other for years. If your not here to share and learn with other plumbers. Why are you on this forum? To be a old grumpy douchebag? Come on now


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## cable or root

That k7500 is a good machine and has more than enough balls to clean a root infested sewer. Drain cleaning is an art and everyone has their own preferences. You will get stuck, you will kink some cables and if you get careless, you may get wrapped up. All part of the learning experience. Everyone has their own preferences but you will eventually find a style that works for you. I personally like using pears in tandem, lots of people like offset blades and leader fingers. It takes a lot of figuring out. Don't expect to be a drain guru in 6 months. I have cleaned 20-30 sewers a week for the past 3 years and there are still drain calls that stump me every once in a while or make me cuss. Cable and blade choice is more important than machine choice btw. Try hollow core 11/16 with threaded ends in that 7500. Blade holders just get in the way on tight turns. The duracable c1 chuck and 4" pears are a good set up. If you get to where the pear won't go through something break one side off and flare the other end out. If going in with a single pull back when you get through the root mass. Otherwise you may get stuck. If you pull back mud or polished cable the lines broken. You can still open a broken line most of the time but you may stop and consider if it's worth it or not before you continue. Just my 2 cents. Draincleaningforum.com has a lot of good info too. But nothing is going to beat real world experience.


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## plumberkc

dragit said:


> I have no training by anyone I would consider a professional (at sewer cleaning).
> 
> Reading the forums Iover the past 18 months has clued me in on a few things that one would think would be a no brainer.
> 
> Why are you on this forum? To be a old grumpy douchebag?


Nothing against you personally, really no need for name calling either. I'm sure you wouldn't run your mouth like that in person, so why do it online. 

Just know that you're not the only one reading the forums. 95% of the views on these forums are from guests. There is nothing wrong with helping a fellow plumber out but you're undermining the profession in the process.


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## dragit

I thought what I said was pretty laid back. Thin skin? 

I can see your angle. It could be easier to keep guests from lurking if you required an account to view the forums. Wouldn't stop a determined person, but it would deter a lot. 

The web is a great place to learn from other people in your profession. Someone can always teach you something you didn't know

Besides all that, when it comes to drain cleaning... We can't even get any of our plumbers or hands to do it. Lol. It's not a industry many people care to take part in. I can't imagine it being flooded with new guys giving it a go after reading a couple forums


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## dragit

cable or root said:


> That k7500 is a good machine and has more than enough balls to clean a root infested sewer. Drain cleaning is an art and everyone has their own preferences. You will get stuck, you will kink some cables and if you get careless, you may get wrapped up. All part of the learning experience. Everyone has their own preferences but you will eventually find a style that works for you. I personally like using pears in tandem, lots of people like offset blades and leader fingers. It takes a lot of figuring out. Don't expect to be a drain guru in 6 months. I have cleaned 20-30 sewers a week for the past 3 years and there are still drain calls that stump me every once in a while or make me cuss. Cable and blade choice is more important than machine choice btw. Try hollow core 11/16 with threaded ends in that 7500. Blade holders just get in the way on tight turns. The duracable c1 chuck and 4" pears are a good set up. If you get to where the pear won't go through something break one side off and flare the other end out. If going in with a single pull back when you get through the root mass. Otherwise you may get stuck. If you pull back mud or polished cable the lines broken. You can still open a broken line most of the time but you may stop and consider if it's worth it or not before you continue. Just my 2 cents. Draincleaningforum.com has a lot of good info too. But nothing is going to beat real world experience.


Thanks man. I been following you over a couple different forums (just see a lot of posts from you). I appreciate the tips. 

I'm going to have to order a couple hundred bucks worth of augers. A lot of the stuff I see being used, I've never had to try (or would know the best tool for a given situation). Without a camera though, you only can make a educated guess what the situation is


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## Redwood

cable or root said:


> That k7500 is a good machine and has more than enough balls to clean a root infested sewer. Drain cleaning is an art and everyone has their own preferences. You will get stuck, you will kink some cables and if you get careless, you may get wrapped up. All part of the learning experience. Everyone has their own preferences but you will eventually find a style that works for you. I personally like using pears in tandem, lots of people like offset blades and leader fingers. It takes a lot of figuring out. Don't expect to be a drain guru in 6 months. I have cleaned 20-30 sewers a week for the past 3 years and there are still drain calls that stump me every once in a while or make me cuss. Cable and blade choice is more important than machine choice btw. Try hollow core 11/16 with threaded ends in that 7500. Blade holders just get in the way on tight turns. The duracable c1 chuck and 4" pears are a good set up. If you get to where the pear won't go through something break one side off and flare the other end out. If going in with a single pull back when you get through the root mass. Otherwise you may get stuck. If you pull back mud or polished cable the lines broken. You can still open a broken line most of the time but you may stop and consider if it's worth it or not before you continue. Just my 2 cents. Draincleaningforum.com has a lot of good info too. But nothing is going to beat real world experience.


Sounds like we went to the same school...
Cept I'm an offset kinda guy...


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## Roto-Rooter

cable or root said:


> You will get stuck, you will kink some cables and if you get careless, you may get wrapped up. All part of the learning experience. Everyone has their own preferences but you will eventually find a style that works for you. Don't expect to be a drain guru in 6 months. I have cleaned 20-30 sewers a week for the past 3 years and there are still drain calls that stump me every once in a while or make me cuss.


Cable you are right. We think alike. I have been doing it for almost 40 years or more and still get some that stump me, but I can say "You can count on one hand the number I have walked away from" and not got open or found out what was wrong so it can be fixed.


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## Blackhawk

I run the K7500 on 3"-6" lines, and the K3800 on 1.5" and 2" lines. For the in-between job (rodding through a toilet with too many turns that the 3/4" cable wont make we then run a Spartan 300 with .55 cable.

The K3800 are not just K400 without wheels, they have an inner drum and are far superior machines.

But now that we own a hydrojetter that is the tool of choice most of the time. (still we like to rod the line open to keep the mess down).


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## dragit

Blackhawk said:


> I run the K7500 on 3"-6" lines, and the K3800 on 1.5" and 2" lines. For the in-between job (rodding through a toilet with too many turns that the 3/4" cable wont make we then run a Spartan 300 with .55 cable.
> 
> The K3800 are not just K400 without wheels, they have an inner drum and are far superior machines.


If the line only has one curve or goes from 3" into 4" quick, I can use the 7500. I believe the cable in it is 3/4 inner core... And with any sort of auger attached I can't get it around 3" fittings for whatever reason. The auto feed has been finicky on it lately too

I said k380. Not 3800. I've never been able to find anything on them (pictures or anything that even says they exist) but it says k380 on it and it is identical to the k400, just no wheels or telescoping handle. 

I've looked into the 3800 before and am well aware it's a much better machine than the k400. I was going to get one, but I can't I justify the money when these weak little k400s will get a 2" line opened up just fine (and they have wheels lol). 

If drain cleaning calls keep coming in I may consider getting a k50 or 3800 to round out the arsenal.


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## Redwood

dragit said:


> If the line only has one curve or goes from 3" into 4" quick, I can use the 7500. I believe the cable in it is 3/4 inner core... And with any sort of auger attached I can't get it around 3" fittings for whatever reason. The auto feed has been finicky on it lately too


I'd consider going to 11/16 hollow core...
I also use screw ends on the cable with a C1 chuck and no blade holder...

Clean your auto feeder and inspect the 3 bearings/rollers...
Replace them with same size stainless steel bearings and lube with waterproof marine grease...




dragit said:


> If drain cleaning calls keep coming in I may consider getting a k50 or 3800 to round out the arsenal.


I would strongly recommend the K-3800 with 3 drums of 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" cables...


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## cable or root

Those brass blade holders are the bane of my existence right now. I usually can't get half a 3" pear through a 3" test tee, mush less anything else. If you have any control over blade brand and style don't get the round bottom style. Life will be much easier for you. We had a 380 at the plumbing shop at Andrews but the foot pedal was always leaking. Looking at the 400 they seem pretty simular. If you're running 1/2" cable in that thing ditch it for 3/8. 3/8'll get you through any secondary line out there (with the exception of bath tubs and some washers). 1/2" is too small for roots (especially since you don't have much experience) and too big for some of the older sink lines you'll run into.


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## Blackhawk

Redwood said:


> I'd consider going to 11/16 hollow core...
> I also use screw ends on the cable with a C1 chuck and no blade holder...
> 
> Clean your auto feeder and inspect the 3 bearings/rollers...
> Replace them with same size stainless steel bearings and lube with waterproof marine grease...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would strongly recommend the K-3800 with 3 drums of 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" cables...


Had no idea our 3800 could run 1/4" cable. I am now going to replace our dumb pistol rodders with this!


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## Redwood

Blackhawk said:


> Had no idea our 3800 could run 1/4" cable. I am now going to replace our dumb pistol rodders with this!


I get it in 75' lengths and toss it when it gets too short in the drum so it slips when it is out in a line... I don't anchor 1/4" cables... Bend the end in the drum so it won't pull out accidentally.... And no auto feed on the k-3800..

Use the 55007 drum...


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## Drain Pro

Redwood said:


> I get it in 75' lengths and toss it when it gets too short in the drum so it slips when it is out in a line... I don't anchor 1/4" cables... Bend the end in the drum so it won't pull out accidentally.... And no auto feed on the k-3800..
> 
> Use the 55007 drum...



Why don't you anchor 1/4" cables?I anchor all my cables. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gunnar

Just curious have you run you cable threw the wc a lot? Ever broke one? And what do you use to stop the cable from scratching the porcelain?


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## Redwood

Drain Pro said:


> Why don't you anchor 1/4" cables?I anchor all my cables.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Even without anchoring it holds well enough to snap the cable down to about 20' so there is no need. I'm ripping it out and putting in a new one then...
It's a time saver...


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## Letterrip

plumberkc said:


> Nothing against you personally, really no need for name calling either. I'm sure you wouldn't run your mouth like that in person, so why do it online.
> 
> Just know that you're not the only one reading the forums. 95% of the views on these forums are from guests. There is nothing wrong with helping a fellow plumber out but you're undermining the profession in the process.



KC, I generally agree with you on this type conversation. In this case however, I don't think it applies. No DIYer except the most foolish is purchasing a k-60 to clear drains in their home or even rentals. The expense and danger associated with it just isn't worth it. Any cable machine discussed here that has a positive review has the guts to snap a wrist when it gets tangled up. I put this conversation in the same type of arena as discussing pipe lining.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mccmech

Just KC being KC!


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## gear junkie

Letterrip said:


> KC, I generally agree with you on this type conversation. In this case however, I don't think it applies. No DIYer except the most foolish is purchasing a k-60 to clear drains in their home or even rentals. The expense and danger associated with it just isn't worth it. Any cable machine discussed here that has a positive review has the guts to snap a wrist when it gets tangled up. I put this conversation in the same type of arena as discussing pipe lining.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe it's just my area but I get a ton of calls that start off "I rented a snake and it broke off" or "why does it cost so much, I can rent a snake for $60". Can't rent a pipe liner for $60 for the day. 

There's a ton of information out here where people lurk.....and here's the thing about lurkers who are plumbers.....they're freeloaders. They take the information that we worked so hard for and contribute nothing to us. They basically take a shortcut on our experience and mistakes and go right for all the end result. 

Good on Dragit for finally coming around and saying, hope he stays. Even questions contribute because it sparks good talk and thoughts. BTW, good job on doing all that with a 400 but I wouldn't try it again lol

The best part is all this information that we all give away for free here, is the owner of the site profits directly off of our knowledge by selling ad space. Think about that......someone else profits directly off your knowledge and you get nothing in return.

Why do think they don't want us using the secret section for whatever we want? Because the owner has OCD and all threads have to be in their right spot? Hardly.....maybe it's because if everything is secret, then there can't be any visitor traffic for sponsors. 

And please don't say they're giving us a place to network. With all the secret groups on facebook that have NO ads we already have more then enough places to network. I'm not even going to talk about that "other" place. 

I've said this before in conversation but here's my analogy for this place. Imagine a bar where every night is ladies night. Hot girls come in, drink for free and they have a place to mingle. In return all the guys come by, drink at full price, look at all the ladies. Well.....in this case, we're the ladies and all the lurkers come by and get blasted with ads.

Just sayin


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## MACPLUMB777

Letterrip said:


> KC, I generally agree with you on this type conversation. In this case however, I don't think it applies. No DIYer except the most foolish is purchasing a k-60 to clear drains in their home or even rentals. The expense and danger associated with it just isn't worth it. Any cable machine discussed here that has a positive review has the guts to snap a wrist when it gets tangled up. I put this conversation in the same type of arena as discussing pipe lining.
> 
> Not exactly I am getting many sales calls from HO'S wanting to buy sectional cable and snake their own drains because that is what they saw their plumber doing,
> just to give you an example they do not know what to call the cable or what size they need but want just enough to reach the street,
> and what kind of drill they need to run the cable


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## Letterrip

I hear you. It's sheer foolishness on a homeowner's part to rent a machine. Everyone here who has run a cable machine for any amount of time likely remembers getting bound up and wrapping the cable around their wrist the first time. I know I thought I broke a bone more than once. Add up the deductible on all the high deductible health plans and then any lost time from work for Drs visits and you have the most expensive stoppage ever. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tommy plumber

Blackhawk said:


> Had no idea our 3800 could run 1/4" cable. I am now going to replace our dumb *pistol rodders* with this!











I detest those things; they are hard to hold with one hand while using the free hand to feed cable,{even with Popeye forearms, the dang thing gets heavy fast} the flimsy cable gets twisted up too easily, they aren't worth a damn in my opinion on anything except a waste arm for a lavatory sink or a tub or shower stoppage in the trap.

I prefer a K-50 anyday over pistol units. Different size cables will fit a K-50 and it's compact enough to stand on top of a vanity.


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## dragit

It's here!!! I'm so excited I think I'm going to go home and run some cable in my house... Get some practice with the sectional. Never been so excited to chase some turds!


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## Drain Pro

Tommy plumber said:


> I detest those things; they are hard to hold with one hand while using the free hand to feed cable,{even with Popeye forearms, the dang thing gets heavy fast} the flimsy cable gets twisted up too easily, they aren't worth a damn in my opinion on anything except a waste arm for a lavatory sink or a tub or shower stoppage in the trap.
> 
> I prefer a K-50 anyday over pistol units. Different size cables will fit a K-50 and it's compact enough to stand on top of a vanity.



I was just talking to a plumber yesterday and told him that handguns are the most difficult machine to teach an apprentice how to use. I've used one so long that it's like an extension of my hand, but newbies not so much. Second hardest, toilet auger. No idea why.


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## dragit

Drain Pro said:


> I was just talking to a plumber yesterday and told him that handguns are the most difficult machine to teach an apprentice how to use. I've used one so long that it's like an extension of my hand, but newbies not so much. Second hardest, toilet auger. No idea why.


Man the toilet auger is a god send. It has saved me from a lot of work and made us a lot of money lol.

With handguns... Are you referring to the k45 or similar? Cuz they are a bit wonky and can be difficult to use.... But same as the stoal auger, it's saved me a lot of time over the years. I think every plumber on the payroll should have one on the truck.... But try to tell them that!

It's got to the point we will have a plumber on a job site and the lazy **** will call the office to have me come out and clean the (lav, k-sink, ect) drain. Ridiculous! Good help is hard to find


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## Plumbducky

Had an insane amount of Plumbing work come from drain cleaning in the past week.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Redwood

I use a K-7500 and a K-3800 along with a 3' General closet auger with drop head...
That's it on my van.... Nothing else needed...


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## Drain Pro

dragit said:


> Man the toilet auger is a god send. It has saved me from a lot of work and made us a lot of money lol.
> 
> With handguns... Are you referring to the k45 or similar? Cuz they are a bit wonky and can be difficult to use.... But same as the stoal auger, it's saved me a lot of time over the years. I think every plumber on the payroll should have one on the truck.... But try to tell them that!
> 
> It's got to the point we will have a plumber on a job site and the lazy **** will call the office to have me come out and clean the (lav, k-sink, ect) drain. Ridiculous! Good help is hard to find



Yes, I am referring to K45 type machines. We use "hand guns " with a Jacobs type chuck only. Just purchased 2 electric eel model S's. 
We're switching over from general wire handylectrics. The chucks don't hold tight enough on them. I've got three for sale if anyone is interested. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dragit

Redwood said:


> I use a K-7500 and a K-3800 along with a 3' General closet auger with drop head...
> That's it on my van.... Nothing else needed...


So far I have a General urinal auger and stoal auger, a k45, k400, k60, k7500, and the trusty shop vac. (Lacking seriously in selection of auger bits though, and it's killing me)

I run 70% of the service calls and 99% of drain/sewer cleaning calls.... And I feel like I'm never prepared enough lol. The k60 makes me feel a little more rounded out (when it comes to snake jobs). 

Thing that drives me nuts with service work, is nearly half the time, I end up having to run somewhere for parts or tools once I see the job. It's really difficult to be ready for anything (in service plumbing). Though I try to improve on that a bit every day...


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## KoleckeINC

In a 1500 series Chevy I carry a k1500 with 150'-gen eye camera-general pistol rod-handystand, 3' auger, air ram and all my rough plumbing tools grinder-hammer drill-holesaw. 5+ of every fitting, traps and slip parts-copper fittings, supplies, soil pipe cutter etc. It's all about the right shelves. And no floor space!!!


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## Redwood

dragit said:


> So far I have a General urinal auger and stoal auger, a k45, k400, k60, k7500, and the trusty shop vac. (Lacking seriously in selection of auger bits though, and it's killing me)
> 
> I run 70% of the service calls and 99% of drain/sewer cleaning calls.... And I feel like I'm never prepared enough lol. The k60 makes me feel a little more rounded out (when it comes to snake jobs).
> 
> Thing that drives me nuts with service work, is nearly half the time, I end up having to run somewhere for parts or tools once I see the job. It's really difficult to be ready for anything (in service plumbing). Though I try to improve on that a bit every day...


I do all service and those 2 machines pretty much take care of any drain cleaning task I come across. I don't need to carry a bunch of overlapping machines when I need the space for parts and tools...


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## Drain Pro

I agree with you Red, the only difference is I prefer a handgun for 1/4" cable. I have three drums for my DM150, one of which I could probably do without. 2 drums for My DM175, 3/4" and 5/8". If I wanted I could probably just get by with one 11/16 drum but the 5/8" is easier to get up and down stairs. 


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## Redwood

Drain Pro said:


> If I wanted I could probably just get by with one 11/16 drum but the 5/8" is easier to get up and down stairs.


If I'm going upstairs it will be the K-3800 with 1/2" going up with me...

But into a basement for a main it will be the K-7500 with 11/16"...


----------



## dragit

I totally get that.

All my drain cleaning stuff (besides the urinal auger, stoal auger, and k45) is in a little trailer I grab if I have a sewer call. That has the k7500, k400, and now the new sectional (with 5/8 and 7/8 cable).


I suppose I can throw the k400 back in the shop for the other plumbers now that I have the k60 on the trailer. Thing is, Every time one of the guys goes on a call I swear they try to wad the cable up (so they don't have to snake anymore). Smh.


----------



## Drain Pro

Redwood said:


> If I'm going upstairs it will be the K-3800 with 1/2" going up with me...
> 
> But into a basement for a main it will be the K-7500 with 11/16"...



I agree with the going upstairs part. 1/2" for 3"-4" interior lines. I do use 5/8" on main sewers. I can't think of the last time I needed the 3/4" cable especially now that I have a jet. 


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## Redwood

dragit said:


> Thing is, Every time one of the guys goes on a call I swear they try to wad the cable up (so they don't have to snake anymore). Smh.


I learned drain cleaning at a company where we had to buy our own cables for the machine they assigned to us....

There is something to be said for that... My cables last a long time...


----------



## wyplumber

dragit said:


> I totally get that.
> 
> All my drain cleaning stuff (besides the urinal auger, stoal auger, and k45) is in a little trailer I grab if I have a sewer call. That has the k7500, k400, and now the new sectional (with 5/8 and 7/8 cable).
> 
> 
> I suppose I can throw the k400 back in the shop for the other plumbers now that I have the k60 on the trailer. Thing is, Every time one of the guys goes on a call I swear they try to wad the cable up (so they don't have to snake anymore). Smh.


Send them over they can run the k-1500 and try to wad the 1 1/4" cable up In a pipe.

As far as the k-400 goes I hated it at first but now I think it is a great machine for secondary lines.


----------



## dragit

Redwood said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is, Every time one of the guys goes on a call I swear they try to wad the cable up (so they don't have to snake anymore). Smh.
> 
> 
> 
> I learned drain cleaning at a company where we had to buy our own cables for the machine they assigned to us....
> 
> There is something to be said for that... My cables last a long time...
Click to expand...

Around here, plumbers are plumbers and drain guys are drain guys. That's what you get from either side if you ask. 

So far as any plumbers around here are concerned, they don't clean drains. 

I got sick of them losing augers and tearing the equipment up... And just told the boss to keep the rest of the guys away from the machines (like they want) and let me handle the snake jobs (but he had to buy me something better than a bunch of k400/k380s


----------



## dragit

wyplumber said:


> Send them over they can run the k-1500 and try to wad the 1 1/4" cable up In a pipe.
> 
> As far as the k-400 goes I hated it at first but now I think it is a great machine for secondary lines.


Where out of Wyoming are you?

I don't think anyone in Casper runs a sectional (that I know off). Wyoming Machinary does own a k1500 I've seen my step dad run. But I never even heard of them before I seen it lol


----------



## wyplumber

dragit said:


> Where out of Wyoming are you?
> 
> I don't think anyone in Casper runs a sectional (that I know off). Wyoming Machinary does own a k1500 I've seen my step dad run. But I never even heard of them before I seen it lol


Glenrock so dam close 

Yeah I don't see many sectionals and you get s funny look from home owners when they see it for the first time but it's the only thing I like for main lines it can be a royal pain to run 185' in and out 3 times in a completely finished basement


----------



## dragit

wyplumber said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where out of Wyoming are you?
> 
> I don't think anyone in Casper runs a sectional (that I know off). Wyoming Machinary does own a k1500 I've seen my step dad run. But I never even heard of them before I seen it lol
> 
> 
> 
> Glenrock so dam close
> 
> Yeah I don't see many sectionals and you get s funny look from home owners when they see it for the first time but it's the only thing I like for main lines it can be a royal pain to run 185' in and out 3 times in a completely finished basement
Click to expand...

185" is a long run (especially in glenrock?!) . Especially to run in that many times. I'd be WORE OUT lol. I've never needed more than 100" of cable... So far anyways. But I haven't had to do many mains till this year.


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## Epox

How does a "plumber" not use or know how to run drain equipment. Just seems weird to me. I carry a k7500 and k400 , and k40 full time along with full pressure assortments and drain fittings/piping. And was taught that way since the 70's. 
Help me understanbd, they go for example to replace a sink faucet, also included in the call the drain is stopped up. You go seperately to rod the drain since the "plumber" doesn't DO DRAINS?


----------



## wyplumber

Epox said:


> How does a "plumber" not use or know how to run drain equipment. Just seems weird to me. I carry a k7500 and k400 , and k40 full time along with full pressure assortments and drain fittings/piping. And was taught that way since the 70's.
> Help me understanbd, they go for example to replace a sink faucet, also included in the call the drain is stopped up. You go seperately to rod the drain since the "plumber" doesn't DO DRAINS?



That's how it is here seems like 4 out of 5 plumbing companies here don't offer drain cleaning services seems real strange but works for most of them


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## Roto-Rooter

Epox said:


> How does a "plumber" not use or know how to run drain equipment. Just seems weird to me. I carry a k7500 and k400 , and k40 full time along with full pressure assortments and drain fittings/piping. And was taught that way since the 70's.
> Help me understanbd, they go for example to replace a sink faucet, also included in the call the drain is stopped up. You go seperately to rod the drain since the "plumber" doesn't DO DRAINS?


That's the way it is here also. We have only done drain and sewer cleaning and never done any plumbing. Sewer cleaning here keeps us busy enough we wouldn't have time to do any plumbing, but this is a OMS.


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## Redwood

Same deal here, most plumbers don't do drains...
They might have a drill gun or Marco Hand Spinner and for a good customer. They will make a 1/2 hearted attempt at a main with then pour in the clobber and say if that doesn't work you need to call a drain cleaning company... That will be $100...

I kinda like when they call us and find we can do everything...


----------



## dragit

Epox said:


> How does a "plumber" not use or know how to run drain equipment. Just seems weird to me. I carry a k7500 and k400 , and k40 full time along with full pressure assortments and drain fittings/piping. And was taught that way since the 70's.
> Help me understanbd, they go for example to replace a sink faucet, also included in the call the drain is stopped up. You go seperately to rod the drain since the "plumber" doesn't DO DRAINS?


It's funny because this situation arose earlier this week. The lazy plumber called the office to have me come snake a lav drain at a job he was on. And he is the other service plumber!!!!!!!

I think every one should have a k45 on board (at least). But, these plumbers short comings just guarantee my job in the long run during the slow times (well, being the owners son probably guarantees my job.. But you get the point).


----------



## fixitright

dragit said:


> It's funny because this situation arose earlier this week. The lazy plumber called the office to have me come snake a lav drain at a job he was on. And he is the other service plumber!!!!!!!
> 
> I think every one should have a k45 on board (at least). But, these plumbers short comings just guarantee my job in the long run during the slow times* (well, being the owners son probably guarantees my jo*b.. But you get the point).



That cracked me up, thanks .........


----------



## dragit

fixitright said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny because this situation arose earlier this week. The lazy plumber called the office to have me come snake a lav drain at a job he was on. And he is the other service plumber!!!!!!!
> 
> I think every one should have a k45 on board (at least). But, these plumbers short comings just guarantee my job in the long run during the slow times* (well, being the owners son probably guarantees my jo*b.. But you get the point).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That cracked me up, thanks .........
Click to expand...


Figured that might get a rise out of a few of ya.


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## dragit

Got a chance to practice with the k60 today. 

3" floor sink under the cook line at a local restaurant.

With 2 strainers on it, It was likely a soft blockage so I gave the 5/8 cable a try with a c cutter. 

The 5/8 hollow core (obviously) navigated the 3" trap without any trouble. Got the line flowing and then went in a few more times to clean the line out. 

All and all I realllllllly like running the sectional. I feel like this cable "talks" to me. Using drum machines with auto feed my entire life, I don't think I ever really got a good feel for what was happening down pipe. 

Now my question.. Is the 5/8 the correct choice here? I have 7/8 cable as well, but figured the 3" trap would be a pain. 5/8 navigated it without trouble and I figured would have no flipping issues of I didn't drop to far into a 4" Line where it wye's in

Hoping for something a little more challenging next time out


----------



## cable or root

Yes, I use 5/8 sectional for most of my secondary lines. What tool did you use? Never ditch a c8 cable once it's kinked btw, the reverse auger will be your best friend.


----------



## Tommy plumber

dragit said:


> Got a chance to practice with the k60 today.
> 
> 3" floor sink under the cook line at a local restaurant.
> 
> With 2 strainers on it, It was likely a soft blockage so I gave the 5/8 cable a try with a c cutter.
> 
> The 5/8 hollow core (obviously) navigated the 3" trap without any trouble. Got the line flowing and then went in a few more times to clean the line out.
> 
> All and all I realllllllly like running the sectional. I feel like this cable "talks" to me. Using drum machines with auto feed my entire life, I don't think I ever really got a good feel for what was happening down pipe.
> 
> Now my question.. *Is the 5/8 the correct choice here?* I have 7/8 cable as well, but figured the 3" trap would be a pain. 5/8 navigated it without trouble and I figured would have no flipping issues of I didn't drop to far into a 4" Line where it wye's in
> 
> Hoping for something a little more challenging next time out


 









Yes, 5/8" cable is perfect for a 3" floor drain. 

There are actually a few different temper cables made in 5/8" by Ridgid. I have {2} different 5/8" cables on my truck. Each one has a different temper. C-8 & C-9. One is stiff for 2" & 3" lines and the other is a more flexible one for slightly smaller lines such as 1 1/4" and 1 1/2".

So for a kitchen drain line under the sink, I will use the more flexible 5/8" {C-8} for turning in an 1 1/2" elbow while the cable is headed for a 2" X 1 1/2" sanitary tee. Whereas I will use the stiffer 5/8" {C-9} if I'm cabling a 2" kitchen line from the roof {which I like to do so I don't have to work hunched over with the traps removed under the sink} since I'm dropping straight down the stack and just have a 2" sweep to navigate. Another advantage to cabling the kitchen drain line from the roof is, with the kitchen sink plugged, all I have to do is come down the ladder and look inside the kitchen, if the sink has no water in it, I have reached the stoppage, whereas, when cabling from underneath the kitchen sink, I have to remove my cable, re-install the traps, then start running water and wait to see if I have reached the stoppage. Plus, I charge more to jump up on the roof.

The 7/8" Ridgid is more for main lines; ie: from a 3" or 4" c.o. The 7/8" is a bit much for a 3" p-trap.


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## Flyout95

Tommy plumber said:


> whereas, when cabling from underneath the kitchen sink, I have to remove my cable, re-install the traps, then start running water and wait to see if I have reached the stoppage.


You don't have an under sink contraption?


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## Tommy plumber

Flyout95 said:


> You don't have an under sink contraption?












No. I have seen Gear junkie's wonderful rig that allows him to run water down the kitchen sink with the cable in it, but I haven't had the inclination to make one. I have too much stuff on my truck now.


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## Flyout95

Tommy plumber said:


> No. I have seen Gear junkie's wonderful rig that allows him to run water down the kitchen sink with the cable in it, but I haven't had the inclination to make one. I have too much stuff on my truck now.


Understood, I made one, I have used it a few times it is really awesome.


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## cable or root

Can't you just pull one trap and run water in the other? You can have the costumer flush a toilet to determine if the line is open. If you hear the stool flush through the ksink line, it is not holding water(open) if you can't hear the flush there is still water in the line. Also you can run the cable till just a little bit of the last section is hanging out disconnect that section and run it through the trap to run water. That way you can clean off the cable and if the line is still backed up you don't have to start all over.


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## Letterrip

Here in Florida, only one arm is required on a k/s. Very often, the sink is connected with a continuous waste, so running water on the other side will just dump water on the cabinet floor since the trap is removed. I like your thinking on the flushing the toilet and listen. That said, we don't typically deal with the steep pitch of a snow roof, so running a stoppage from the roof is common. 


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## dragit

cable or root said:


> Can't you just pull one trap and run water in the other? You can have the costumer flush a toilet to determine if the line is open. If you hear the stool flush through the ksink line, it is not holding water(open) if you can't hear the flush there is still water in the line. Also you can run the cable till just a little bit of the last section is hanging out disconnect that section and run it through the trap to run water. That way you can clean off the cable and if the line is still backed up you don't have to start all over.



Most k-sinks here are on a outside wall with their own 2" riser, to the side of a window with a 1.5" arm to catch the sink. Multiple lav sinks hardly ever tie into the same horizontal line. 

I run a k45 on lav drains and such. No sections to disconnect (though that would be handy). I'm considering a knock off SDT k50, but I'm a big fan of the professional ridgid tool line and have a hard time committing to a Chinese clone. 

K45 feels limiting as you have zero choice for auger. But I don't feel it's been too limiting except on really sludges up lines (where a little better would be ideal)

The lil sink contraption is a great idea, but wouldn't work in tight spots. That being said, I've planned on making one. One more (handy) tool in the bag. As if I didn't have to carry enough on the truck already lol


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## cable or root

dragit said:


> Most k-sinks here are on a outside wall with their own 2" riser, to the side of a window with a 1.5" arm to catch the sink. Multiple lav sinks hardly ever tie into the same horizontal line.
> 
> *lucky *******, I get all excited when I see cleanouts for kitchen lines on the exterior wall, they always make my day, but I only ever see that 1-2times a year*
> 
> I run a k45 on lav drains and such. No sections to disconnect (though that would be handy). I'm considering a knock off SDT k50, but I'm a big fan of the professional ridgid tool line and have a hard time committing to a Chinese clone.
> 
> K45 feels limiting as you have zero choice for auger. But I don't feel it's been too limiting except on really sludges up lines (where a little better would be ideal)
> 
> The lil sink contraption is a great idea, but wouldn't work in tight spots. That being said, I've planned on making one. One more (handy) tool in the bag. As if I didn't have to carry enough on the truck already lol


I have the sdtk50. It's an excellent machine, but me preference to tools is with how much money they make me not with brand or country of origin. IMO the k400 w/ 3/8 cable and several offset kinks will do a much better job than that k45 will on lav lines since you have both, but that's just me.


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## Redwood

The K-400 is a useless machine not worthy of the space it takes up on a truck. With 1/2" cable it is too small for a tangle with roots on an underground line, and too big for most sinks, showers, tubs, lavs, etc. it is a jack of all master of none machine that is unneeded when you have the coverage of 2 machines such as the K-3800 and K-7500 which give you a full range of drain cleaning.


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## dragit

Redwood said:


> The K-400 is a useless machine not worthy of the space it takes up on a truck. With 1/2" cable it is too small for a tangle with roots on an underground line, and too big for most sinks, showers, tubs, lavs, etc. it is a jack of all master of none machine that is unneeded when you have the coverage of 2 machines such as the K-3800 and K-7500 which give you a full range of drain cleaning.


I agree to a point. The k400 is basically all I had at my disposal for years and years. I've managed to open and clean out drains that people claim would be impossible with that machine. It was just in the recent years we acquired the k7500. 

With the k45 and k60 (c8 cable and c10 cable) on the truck, I do well enough to handle 99% of anything with these two machines. Best part, is I don't have to deal with a stupid air switch with either of them. That's my favorite thing about ridgid sectionals.

If things get bad I can always go pick up the k7500 at the shop. But so far I'm 5 for 5 with the k60 (in and out in a hour or less with at least three passes). I don't foresee the k7500 getting much work now that I carry the k60


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## dhal22

One of my plumbers asked if he could carry his personal K400 in his van in addition to a full size machine. It is crazy how good he is with that machine. I've been onsite and seen him blow through 3" traps easily, pull major root balls out, clear grease, etc when I thought no way does he get that pipe clear.

Properly used a K400 is a great midsized machine based upon what I've seen. Not that there's plenty of other options though.


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## Tommy plumber

dragit said:


> I agree to a point. The k400 is basically all I had at my disposal for years and years. I've managed to open and clean out drains that people claim would be impossible with that machine. It was just in the recent years we acquired the k7500.
> 
> With the k45 and k60 (c8 cable and c10 cable) on the truck, I do well enough to handle 99% of anything with these two machines. Best part, is I don't have to deal with a stupid air switch with either of them. That's my favorite thing about ridgid sectionals.
> 
> If things get bad I can always go pick up the k7500 at the shop. But so far I'm 5 for 5 with the k60 (*in and out in a hour or less* with at least three passes). I don't foresee the k7500 getting much work now that I carry the k60


 










Well slow down there cowboy, what's the hurry?


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## dragit

Tommy plumber said:


> Well slow down there cowboy, what's the hurry?


No hurry. Just haven't ran into anything real challenging yet. Short branch lines... Couple mains with soft blockage and some thin roots.

I'm sure when I find a good root job I'll have a bit more time to get it open and cleaned


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## crackerjack7575

K 3800 is expensive, but is awesome for kitchen sinks. I have proven it to do things other 3/8 cable machines could not. K 60 is my favorite machine for sewers. 


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## tims007

marc76075 said:


> I honestly can't think of a good use for a k-400. It's to big for sinks and doesn't have the balls to do anything against a hard stoppage. I couldn't imagine pulling those roots out with a k-400, talk about a battle.


k400 use for all kitchen drain lines. .. no head .. put a kink in the tip and you will get through 11/2 old galvy.. it has paid for my k60 and my k45af and well alot of other toys


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## marc76075

tims007 said:


> k400 use for all kitchen drain lines. .. no head .. put a kink in the tip and you will get through 11/2 old galvy.. it has paid for my k60 and my k45af and well alot of other toys


That's great that you found a niche for that machine. If it was all I had it could make it work, but there are better options.


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## dhal22

Stuck between a SuperVee drain gun, and old 3/8" machine, a 5/8" Speedrooter and a 1/4" jet hose not making it down a 2" drain line (shower, washing machine area in a basement) yesterday I wished my plumber with his K400 was handy. Instead he is out this week on paternity leave. Sewage backing up was causing a mess in a finished basement and I needed a solution.

A plumbing supply house had a K400 in stock so off I went to get one. Within 10 minutes of sending the new machine's cable down the line I had flow. A few quality minutes of cabling back and forth and the pipe was in good working order and I had a happy repeat multimillionaire customer.

Fast forward to today and we get 2 calls that I have no one available for except me. An IHOP with multiple 3" floor sinks flooding and a customer with a 2" drain pipe. Both needed a small cable and the k400 cleared both with ease. 3 jobs within 24 hours and the machine has already paid for itself. It's a puny little thing compared to big machines but it seems to work well in small pipes.


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## Drain Pro

dhal22 said:


> Stuck between a SuperVee drain gun, and old 3/8" machine, a 5/8" Speedrooter and a 1/4" jet hose not making it down a 2" drain line (shower, washing machine area in a basement) yesterday I wished my plumber with his K400 was handy. Instead he is out this week on paternity leave. Sewage backing up was causing a mess in a finished basement and I needed a solution.
> 
> A plumbing supply house had a K400 in stock so off I went to get one. Within 10 minutes of sending the new machine's cable down the line I had flow. A few quality minutes of cabling back and forth and the pipe was in good working order and I had a happy repeat multimillionaire customer.
> 
> Fast forward to today and we get 2 calls that I have no one available for except me. An IHOP with multiple 3" floor sinks flooding and a customer with a 2" drain pipe. Both needed a small cable and the k400 cleared both with ease. 3 jobs within 24 hours and the machine has already paid for itself. It's a puny little thing compared to big machines but it seems to work well in small pipes.



If you like Ridgid, get yourself a K-3800. Great machine. 


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## Redwood

Drain Pro said:


> If you like Ridgid, get yourself a K-3800. Great machine.


Yea... and it will do tub and lav drains too...

In addition to everything a k-400 will do...


----------



## tims007

k60 for mainlines. k400 for kitchen and bathroom sinks, k45af for bathtubs, laundry stand pipes, showers. 
i started with the k400 and it bought the rest of my tools i started my company with $500 to my name and a van and a fooktone of hand tools and 15 years of plumbing knowledge. yes it is a chap machene and there are better out there but im going to run this thing till it dies .. i think i have cleaned it once lol


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## fixitright

I clear 10" lines with a hand spinner.

Once cleared a root infested 6" line with my plunger in only two pumps while
filling up six buckets of roots.

The city of Minneapolis hires me to clean their city lines with my K-60
eliminating the need for all their equipment and crews.

That's right, you read it on the Internet so it must be true.

(and I don't even own a K-400) :thumbsup:


----------



## dhal22

Drain Pro said:


> If you like Ridgid, get yourself a K-3800. Great machine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Our full size machines are Speedrooters and most of our vans carry a Supervee or the Ridgid equivalent, the k400 seems like enough for in between problems. If not we have the jetter as another option.

I'll look at the k3800 though.


----------



## Drain Pro

dhal22 said:


> Our full size machines are Speedrooters and most of our vans carry a Supervee or the Ridgid equivalent, the k400 seems like enough for in between problems. If not we have the jetter as another option.
> 
> I'll look at the k3800 though.



The k3800 will be a more versatile in between machine for you than the k400. You can run 1/4"-1/2" and swapping drums is real simple. 


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## jnohs

I have a 3 step approach to snaking line the first is the 6ft toilet auger thats price #1, then I use the k400 which is what I carry on the truck and thats next step additional price#2, then i have step 3 which is the k750 and additional price.... the customer is in trouble if I make it to this step... I have solved 95% of clogs with the k400, as I am generally a residential plumber and in addition on long island there are no leaching fields and most people have sewers, so I think the root problems are a little less of an issue here... but before i get lynched for that comment I have had roots before and I give the customer 15 minutes of snaking until the clog clears otherwise it is time for step 3.


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## Redwood

jnohs said:


> I have a 3 step approach to snaking line the first is the 6ft toilet auger thats price #1, then I use the k400 which is what I carry on the truck and thats next step additional price#2, then i have step 3 which is the k750 and additional price.... the customer is in trouble if I make it to this step... I have solved 95% of clogs with the k400, as I am generally a residential plumber and in addition on long island there are no leaching fields and most people have sewers, so I think the root problems are a little less of an issue here... but before i get lynched for that comment I have had roots before and I give the customer 15 minutes of snaking until the clog clears otherwise it is time for step 3.


:blink:

I diagnose the problem and use what will fix it....


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## cable or root

jnohs said:


> I have a 3 step approach to snaking line the first is the 6ft toilet auger thats price #1, then I use the k400 which is what I carry on the truck and thats next step additional price#2, then i have step 3 which is the k750 and additional price.... the customer is in trouble if I make it to this step... I have solved 95% of clogs with the k400, as I am generally a residential plumber and in addition on long island there are no leaching fields and most people have sewers, so I think the root problems are a little less of an issue here... but before i get lynched for that comment I have had roots before and I give the customer 15 minutes of snaking until the clog clears otherwise it is time for step 3.


You can't possibly be properly cleaning sewer lines properly with 1/2 or 3/8 cable. Are you leaving warranties when you clean a sewer with a k400? You must have a rediculous amount of callbacks. I'm sorry I don't buy it. Maybe if all your sewers are all plastic or you are only fighting grass roots with that thing. I will from time to time run 3/8 in a sewer line AS A LAST RESORT ONLY. Basically for sewer lines that are sheared off at the house, and only to poke em open long enough for them to get a repair THE SAME OR NEXT DAY. But I always try with the 1065 first. We're talking 3" offsets here. Thats it, and the home owner knows when ever I do this their warranty is only good until I pull out of their DRIVEWAY.


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## gear junkie

Drain Pro said:


> The k3800 will be a more versatile in between machine for you than the k400. You can run 1/4"-1/2" and swapping drums is real simple.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I sold my 3800 when I got my K50.


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## Flyout95

I use the k-50 with reverse auger for everything.


----------



## MACPLUMB777

cable or root said:


> You can't possibly be properly cleaning sewer lines properly with 1/2 or 3/8 cable. Are you leaving warranties when you clean a sewer with a k400? You must have a rediculous amount of callbacks. I'm sorry I don't buy it. Maybe if all your sewers are all plastic or you are only fighting grass roots with that thing. I will from time to time run 3/8 in a sewer line AS A LAST RESORT ONLY. Basically for sewer lines that are sheared off at the house, and only to poke em open long enough for them to get a repair THE SAME OR NEXT DAY. But I always try with the 1065 first. We're talking 3" offsets here. That's it, and the home owner knows when ever I do this their warranty is only good until I pull out of their DRIVEWAY.


I don't about that I have plenty of H. O.'s calling for replacement 3/8" or 1/2"
cables that they are using to clear their main lines with !
sometimes they even want 5/16" or 1/4" x 75' to run into main lines :whistling2: 
These are for machines that they brought at H.cheapo, or the other blue one, or Harbor freight, :thumbup:


----------



## PLUMB TIME

Flyout95 said:


> I use the k-50 with reverse auger for everything. .


Wow.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Did some water hit the lead pot today?


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## Flyout95

PLUMB TIME said:


> Wow.:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> Did some water hit the lead pot today?


I rodded all day today. it was like kitchen sink backing up day all day.


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## Drain Pro

jnohs said:


> I have a 3 step approach to snaking line the first is the 6ft toilet auger thats price #1, then I use the k400 which is what I carry on the truck and thats next step additional price#2, then i have step 3 which is the k750 and additional price.... the customer is in trouble if I make it to this step... I have solved 95% of clogs with the k400, as I am generally a residential plumber and in addition on long island there are no leaching fields and most people have sewers, so I think the root problems are a little less of an issue here... but before i get lynched for that comment I have had roots before and I give the customer 15 minutes of snaking until the clog clears otherwise it is time for step 3.






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## Drain Pro

Clearing roots with a 1/2" cable. 3/8" cable in sewers. Attempting to clear a stoppage other than a toilet bowl with an auger. Either I have a lot to learn or this thread is totally off the rails. 


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## Redwood

Drain Pro said:


> Clearing roots with a 1/2" cable. 3/8" cable in sewers. Attempting to clear a stoppage other than a toilet bowl with an auger. Either I have a lot to learn or this thread is totally off the rails.


Ima gonna buy me some crack and smoke it...
I'm sure afterwards this thread will make more sense...:blink::no:


----------



## Tommy plumber

Drain Pro said:


> Clearing roots with a 1/2" cable. 3/8" cable in sewers. Attempting to clear a stoppage other than a toilet bowl with an auger. Either I have a lot to learn or this thread is totally off the rails.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk












There are a lot of dishonest people, plumbers included. What he is describing is a con. It goes like this:

Going into someone's home who has a suspected main line stoppage and selling them on the idea "that for $125 I'll try and clear the toilet stoppage, but if that doesn't work, you still owe me the $125. Then we go to step #2, if I can clear it with my small sewer machine, it'll cost $300. But even if I can't clear it with the small machine, you still owe me the $300. Finally, we have to go to step #3 and use the big sewer machine since, Mr. Smith, I suspect that you have a main sewer line stoppage, and that will be $700."



The con artist/plumber sells the con by letting the homeowner think that the stoppage might be a simple stoppage contained in the toilet when he believes or suspects that it is not. The con artist then leads the HO to the next step, again allowing the mark to think that the stoppage can be cleared for just a little bit more money, until they arrive at the last step and the con artist whacks the unsuspecting HO with a large service charge.

I have worked with a NY plumber who now makes his domicile down in FL. He told me of the scams that they used to run on people in the NY city area.


----------



## Redwood

Tommy plumber said:


> There are a lot of dishonest people, plumbers included. What he is describing is a con.


Profit by misdiagnosis....:yes:


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## Drain Pro

Shameful. Really shameful. 


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## Tommy plumber

Drain Pro said:


> Shameful. Really shameful.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk












I know you are honest in your business practices, because when a con was presented to you, you didn't know what you were looking at.

A company that I used to work for had a similar game with slab leak detection: They wanted us to 1st, sell a pressure test for $125. Which was nothing more than sticking a simple pressure gauge on an outside hose spigot, then when the pressure dropped {with the meter off of course}, we were to go to the 2nd step, which was an isolation test. That was just turning off the W/H valve and performing the same pressure test on both the hot and the cold piping. All that did was tell us a little bit more than the first test. And this 2nd isolation test was more money, around $250 I think. Once the HO agreed to pay that fee, we could waive it if they went for the electronic leak location for $500. It is called leading the customer down the path that you want him to go. And if not illegal, it is at least unethical.


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## Drain Pro

I honestly thought it was just ineptitude. 


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## dragit

Our company is $80 an hour. We have a "machine fee" for my snake that I believe is $55.

So call it $135 the first hour and $40 for every 30min after.

If I don't open the drain. I don't charge. I have to at least get it to drain down for me to even feel right about collecting any sort of payment. 

I never make the customer feel obligated to take further action unless it is without a doubt absolutely needed. 

The job I pulled these roots from is a great example. It's pretty obvious her main is compromised... And I recommended having someone come cam it to find what is actually going on. I said if she has the main cleaned yearly, we may be able to keep it flowing and keep from having to dig up her driveway for awhile... But without a camera, I'm only speculating.

I've never ran into a con artist in this town.... But I'm sure they do exist. I myself am just a big believer in the golden rule. I'm a plumber because I like to help people... Not screw them


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## dragit

I took a call at 10pm one night like 6 months ago. Basement flooding from a broken supply line (2 minute fix).

I helped the lady out (her husband was out of town) and didn't bother charging her anything. It was a easy fix and a supply line is cheap.

Today I went back to repair their kitchen faucet and the husband gave me this in thanks for what I did that night.

He bought it in 1987 (year I was born lol)... Ducks Unlimited 50th anniversary Buck knife. Never been out of the case. Brought a tear to my eye! 

THATS why I do what I do and love doing it.


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## wyplumber

dragit said:


> Our company is $80 an hour. We have a "machine fee" for my snake that I believe is $55.
> 
> So call it $135 the first hour and $40 for every 30min after.
> 
> If I don't open the drain. I don't charge. I have to at least get it to drain down for me to even feel right about collecting any sort of payment.
> 
> I never make the customer feel obligated to take further action unless it is without a doubt absolutely needed.
> 
> The job I pulled these roots from is a great example. It's pretty obvious her main is compromised... And I recommended having someone come cam it to find what is actually going on. I said if she has the main cleaned yearly, we may be able to keep it flowing and keep from having to dig up her driveway for awhile... But without a camera, I'm only speculating.
> 
> I've never ran into a con artist in this town.... But I'm sure they do exist. I myself am just a big believer in the golden rule. I'm a plumber because I like to help people... Not screw them


Damn man 135 for the first hour your killing me here my k-1500 does not get loaded up for less than $225 for the first hour and $145 an hour after that


----------



## Redwood

wyplumber said:


> Damn man 135 for the first hour your killing me here my k-1500 does not get loaded up for less than $225 for the first hour and $145 an hour after that


We're $400 to snake a drain here...

We're expensive but no one is getting ripped off...
Just top notch service with a price up front, and a no clog guarantee for 6 months afterwards...


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## wyplumber

Redwood said:


> We're $400 to snake a drain here...
> 
> We're expensive but no one is getting ripped off...
> Just top notch service with a price up front, and a no clog guarantee for 6 months afterwards...


Giving the fact that my shop and his is within thirty miles of each other I figured out prices would be much closer.

We don't do six months unless they also want to pay for a camera inspection which most time we will give a year but we do three months with no camera inspection


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## gear junkie

wyplumber said:


> Damn man 135 for the first hour your killing me here my k-1500 does not get loaded up for less than $225 for the first hour and $145 an hour after that


Get away from pricing as a criteria....doesn't matter.


----------



## dragit

wyplumber said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our company is $80 an hour. We have a "machine fee" for my snake that I believe is $55.
> 
> So call it $135 the first hour and $40 for every 30min after.
> 
> If I don't open the drain. I don't charge. I have to at least get it to drain down for me to even feel right about collecting any sort of payment.
> 
> I never make the customer feel obligated to take further action unless it is without a doubt absolutely needed.
> 
> The job I pulled these roots from is a great example. It's pretty obvious her main is compromised... And I recommended having someone come cam it to find what is actually going on. I said if she has the main cleaned yearly, we may be able to keep it flowing and keep from having to dig up her driveway for awhile... But without a camera, I'm only speculating.
> 
> I've never ran into a con artist in this town.... But I'm sure they do exist. I myself am just a big believer in the golden rule. I'm a plumber because I like to help people... Not screw them
> 
> 
> 
> Damn man 135 for the first hour your killing me here my k-1500 does not get loaded up for less than $225 for the first hour and $145 an hour after that
Click to expand...

Well if it means anything to you, I know the snake fee is more for the k7500. I won't break my back hauling that big ass machine for nothing. But i don't take it out for anything smaller than 4".... And even 4" I'll just use the k60 now. And I charge for the time to travel to the jobsite...


Drain cleaning wasn't what we were in business to do. In fact, most our plumbers (up till recently) would recommend the customer to call Greenes or AAA. Now they just have me head to the job.

We been using this pricing for years. But hey.... After hearing that... Maybe we need to update it a bit...... Just with people like "Budget Plumbing" doing stuff for dirt cheap, we are trying to stay competitive 

We had too many complaints about $85 an hour and we dropped it back to $80....


----------



## MACPLUMB777

dragit said:


> Well if it means anything to you, I know the snake fee is more for the k7500. I won't break my back hauling that big ass machine for nothing. But i don't take it out for anything smaller than 4".... And even 4" I'll just use the k60 now. And I charge for the time to travel to the jobsite...
> 
> 
> Drain cleaning wasn't what we were in business to do. In fact, most our plumbers (up till recently) would recommend the customer to call Greenes or AAA. Now they just have me head to the job.
> 
> We been using this pricing for years. But hey.... After hearing that... Maybe we need to update it a bit...... Just with people like "Budget Plumbing" doing stuff for dirt cheap, we are trying to stay competitive
> 
> We had too many complaints about $85 an hour and we dropped it back to $80....


$80 an hour is what I used to charge back in the 90's in Los Angeles, CA.


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## Drain Pro

I'd be out of business at 80 per hour. 


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## dragit

I think when i started ten years ago we were $55 or $60 an hour. But it was just me and my step dad then. We have nearly a dozen guys now.

We just hired a guy who JUST moved from Cali and the company he worked for down there charged $85 an hour and didn't charge any for travel time... And they paid him well. So I figured we were in the ballpark


Should also mention it's a one hour minimum and we charge by the half hour. So if it's 70minutes, they are charged $120 for labor


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## Flyout95

With benifits I make 80 an hour... I mean hell... That's cheap.


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## wyplumber

dragit said:


> I think when i started ten years ago we were $55 or $60 an hour. But it was just me and my step dad then. We have nearly a dozen guys now.
> 
> We just hired a guy who JUST moved from Cali and the company he worked for down there charged $85 an hour and didn't charge any for travel time... And they paid him well. So I figured we were in the ballpark
> 
> 
> Should also mention it's a one hour minimum and we charge by the half hour. So if it's 70minutes, they are charged $120 for labor


Yeah we don't do much in Casper anymore our prices are way to high especially when you figure in travel time. 

There is a company in Casper (I hope it's not you guys) that's has been doing gas water heater installs for $695 I am so sick and tired of people calling and asking if we can at least match that price.


----------



## gear junkie

dragit said:


> Well if it means anything to you, I know the snake fee is more for the k7500. I won't break my back hauling that big ass machine for nothing. But i don't take it out for anything smaller than 4".... And even 4" I'll just use the k60 now. And I charge for the time to travel to the jobsite...
> 
> 
> Drain cleaning wasn't what we were in business to do. In fact, most our plumbers (up till recently) would recommend the customer to call Greenes or AAA. Now they just have me head to the job.
> 
> We been using this pricing for years. But hey.... After hearing that... Maybe we need to update it a bit...... Just with people like "Budget Plumbing" doing stuff for dirt cheap, we are trying to stay competitive
> 
> *We had too many complaints about $85 an hour and we dropped it back to $80.*...


If $5 was the deciding factor for customer satisfaction, then you need to focus on customer service. There was an awesome guy here.....Richard Hillard. Go back through his posts and read everything he wrote.


----------



## dragit

wyplumber said:


> Yeah we don't do much in Casper anymore our prices are way to high especially when you figure in travel time.
> 
> There is a company in Casper (I hope it's not you guys) that's has been doing gas water heater installs for $695 I am so sick and tired of people calling and asking if we can at least match that price.



Your kidding me! 

Our cheapest water heater install is for a 50g electric. I think it's $960. That includes the basic fittings needed to get the job done and two hours.

If they need a new shut off, heater pan, any significant re piping, or anything like that, it's extra. 

I think a 40g gas heater install starts at just over a grand.


----------



## dragit

gear junkie said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well if it means anything to you, I know the snake fee is more for the k7500. I won't break my back hauling that big ass machine for nothing. But i don't take it out for anything smaller than 4".... And even 4" I'll just use the k60 now. And I charge for the time to travel to the jobsite...
> 
> 
> Drain cleaning wasn't what we were in business to do. In fact, most our plumbers (up till recently) would recommend the customer to call Greenes or AAA. Now they just have me head to the job.
> 
> We been using this pricing for years. But hey.... After hearing that... Maybe we need to update it a bit...... Just with people like "Budget Plumbing" doing stuff for dirt cheap, we are trying to stay competitive
> 
> *We had too many complaints about $85 an hour and we dropped it back to $80.*...
> 
> 
> 
> If $5 was the deciding factor for customer satisfaction, then you need to focus on customer service. There was an awesome guy here.....Richard Hillard. Go back through his posts and read everything he wrote.
Click to expand...


I'll search him and read up... But I want to explain something about where I'm at.

I live in the least populated state in the country that relies on the oil and gas industry. It's the main source of our state's and people's income.

When oil dropped, so did the lay offs. Unemployment is a plague around here right now. Nobody has money (like usual anyways) and everyone is price shopping (and really could care less who does the work as long as it is cheap as possible). 

Our town is flooded with plumbing companies right now and it's cut throat. When we dropped the five bucks, it was a measure taken after I showed up at a number of jobs and before I even got out of the truck, they wanted my hourly rate and turned me away to wait for the guy that was @ $70 an hour (and ironically my step dad's brother was the douchebag at $70/h)

We have a lot of hotels, real estate agents, restaurants, nursing homes, the mall, etc etc... Those have kept me steady.... But not enough work to keep the entire company busy.

Just a few years ago we could have charged whatever we wanted... But right now everyone is feeling the pinch.

Not to mention there are companies charging $50/h and/or doing water heaters for ****ing free ($695 like stated above).


It would be nice to think we could be stuck up and only do work for our existing customers.... But everyone is pinching pennies and holding off on calling a plumber unless it is absolutely neccesary. 

I have had many new customers get frustrated when I try to clean up cuz They don't want to pay for me to clean up! That's how bad it is. I can't blame them cuz I'm the same way.

i have bills to pay and kids to feed. 


Hell there is even a guy running around testing back flow preventers for $50 a pop. I do them for $85. Madness


----------



## jnohs

Redwood said:


> :blink:
> 
> I diagnose the problem and use what will fix it....


I didn't know you were god and could look directly inside the pipes and see what the problem is.... what happens when you are wrong....... requote your pre quoted price, sounds like bait and switch based on incompetence to believe that you can solve any problem without probing.... and probing cost. it cost step one, it cost step 2, I did 2 drain cleaning jobs yesterday one cost $1,100 and one cost $1,000 both of them cleared with the k400 and cost me 3 clean out caps on one and 2 clean out caps on the other. the I went and swapped a house trap for $1,800. then did a toilet for $589, yesterday was a $4,500 day, tell me where am I gong wrong...?


----------



## jnohs

Tommy plumber said:


> There are a lot of dishonest people, plumbers included. What he is describing is a con. It goes like this:
> 
> Going into someone's home who has a suspected main line stoppage and selling them on the idea "that for $125 I'll try and clear the toilet stoppage, but if that doesn't work, you still owe me the $125. Then we go to step #2, if I can clear it with my small sewer machine, it'll cost $300. But even if I can't clear it with the small machine, you still owe me the $300. Finally, we have to go to step #3 and use the big sewer machine since, Mr. Smith, I suspect that you have a main sewer line stoppage, and that will be $700."
> 
> 
> 
> The con artist/plumber sells the con by letting the homeowner think that the stoppage might be a simple stoppage contained in the toilet when he believes or suspects that it is not. The con artist then leads the HO to the next step, again allowing the mark to think that the stoppage can be cleared for just a little bit more money, until they arrive at the last step and the con artist whacks the unsuspecting HO with a large service charge.
> 
> I have worked with a NY plumber who now makes his domicile down in FL. He told me of the scams that they used to run on people in the NY city area.


that's not a scam.... that's how you make money every step of the way, I say the same thing.... what if the customer decides he doesn't want the large drum machine.... well you owe me money for services rendered, Heck I am covered in your crap... you will be owing me money... it is that easy, when did it become a scam to make money, especially when you explain all the possible outcomes before starting and they agree.... that's not a scam infact t is perfect business, I never mislead the customer, i never said I could diagnose there problem exactly every time, and they gracefully agree to the pricing, how is that a scam... if you don't do it that way you are scamming you self out of money....

I am going to redact a little here though... if I now it a main line stoppage then I do not sell them on trying to unclog a single toilet.... but there will still be a step process to fixing a main line clog.. roots extra, every 15 minutes of roto rooting is extra, every time in= need to upgrade to a larger machine extra.

How do you know there is not a collapsed pipe in the ground good luck diagnosing that before you go in... I pulled a full towel out of a main line once... it took me about 3 hours to get it out.... how do u quote the possibility of a towel in the drain.... impossible, so we quote for the impossibilities in order to insure i make money every step of the way..... If I am not making money every single step of the way, why am I doing it then. I am here to make money, lots of money and that's it other wise I am not your pumber and I am going home...


----------



## jnohs

dragit said:


> I'll search him and read up... But I want to explain something about where I'm at.
> 
> I live in the least populated state in the country that relies on the oil and gas industry. It's the main source of our state's and people's income.
> 
> When oil dropped, so did the lay offs. Unemployment is a plague around here right now. Nobody has money (like usual anyways) and everyone is price shopping (and really could care less who does the work as long as it is cheap as possible).
> 
> Our town is flooded with plumbing companies right now and it's cut throat. When we dropped the five bucks, it was a measure taken after I showed up at a number of jobs and before I even got out of the truck, they wanted my hourly rate and turned me away to wait for the guy that was @ $70 an hour (and ironically my step dad's brother was the douchebag at $70/h)
> 
> We have a lot of hotels, real estate agents, restaurants, nursing homes, the mall, etc etc... Those have kept me steady.... But not enough work to keep the entire company busy.
> 
> Just a few years ago we could have charged whatever we wanted... But right now everyone is feeling the pinch.
> 
> Not to mention there are companies charging $50/h and/or doing water heaters for ****ing free ($695 like stated above).
> 
> 
> It would be nice to think we could be stuck up and only do work for our existing customers.... But everyone is pinching pennies and holding off on calling a plumber unless it is absolutely neccesary.
> 
> I have had many new customers get frustrated when I try to clean up cuz They don't want to pay for me to clean up! That's how bad it is. I can't blame them cuz I'm the same way.
> 
> i have bills to pay and kids to feed.
> 
> 
> Hell there is even a guy running around testing back flow preventers for $50 a pop. I do them for $85. Madness




85 dollars an hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you can make more working for someone else, after overhead, expenses and now paying a tech and what could possible be left for yourself...?


----------



## jnohs

never never never quote prices over the phone... if the customer is adait about a price over the pone they are looking for a good price not a good plumber.... tell them you will need to see the problem before quoting... if they demand pricing over and over give them a general price and tell them you could be wrong based on there description over the phone you can in no way diagnose a plumbing problem correctly over the phone and after they are adamant and if you are forced to give a general price to this pain in the ass customer, before leaving to go to there plumbing tell that but head customer it is $89 dollars to go and give the quote if they do the job you will waive the fee, this will immediately get rid of pain customers that you do not want. and also get you customer you do want, now I use a sliding scale here if the customer never mentions"quote,price, estimate and says I need a plumber" that's music to my ears on my way no $89 dollar waiver fee, but if they say how much or estimate or quote or want you there after their working hours they arelooking for price not a plumber $89 waiver fee. also it is important to go the if you do the job you save the $89 dollars because if they know no matter what they will have to give you the $89 dollars and now they are amazed that it could cost them that much if they think they are going to get that $89 dollars back they are more inclined to do the job, but if they know that no matter what they will have to fork up the $89 dollars they will more likely just give you the money and try to save on the next guy, people like this need to feel like they are getting a deal, and buy offering to waive the $89 they will feel satisfied that they saved a buck....or they won't and you get your $89 for 5 minutes and bye bye ad you will never hear from that pain again...


----------



## cable or root

jnohs said:


> I didn't know you were god and could look directly inside the pipes and see what the problem is.... what happens when you are wrong....... requote your pre quoted price, sounds like bait and switch based on incompetence to believe that you can solve any problem without probing.... and probing cost. it cost step one, it cost step 2, I did 2 drain cleaning jobs yesterday one cost $1,100 and one cost $1,000 both of them cleared with the k400 and cost me 3 clean out caps on one and 2 clean out caps on the other. the I went and swapped a house trap for $1,800. then did a toilet for $589, yesterday was a $4,500 day, tell me where am I gong wrong...?


I don't need to "probe" I have a three step process as well 1.diagnose 2. Clean the drain(with the proper equipment,3 cleanup collect and leave. Your k400 prices are the same as our trailor jetter prices. Was that a toilet install or a toilet auger for 600? I'm sorry but to me thats robbery.


----------



## Drain Pro

I quote prices over the phone all the time. Saves me the headache of dealing with a cheap customer in person. 


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----------



## Drain Pro

cable or root said:


> I don't need to "probe" I have a three step process as well 1.diagnose 2. Clean the drain(with the proper equipment,3 cleanup collect and leave. Your k400 prices are the same as our trailor jetter prices. Was that a toilet install or a toilet auger for 600? I'm sorry but to me thats robbery.



I was thinking the same thing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dragit

cable or root said:


> jnohs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know you were god and could look directly inside the pipes and see what the problem is.... what happens when you are wrong....... requote your pre quoted price, sounds like bait and switch based on incompetence to believe that you can solve any problem without probing.... and probing cost. it cost step one, it cost step 2, I did 2 drain cleaning jobs yesterday one cost $1,100 and one cost $1,000 both of them cleared with the k400 and cost me 3 clean out caps on one and 2 clean out caps on the other. the I went and swapped a house trap for $1,800. then did a toilet for $589, yesterday was a $4,500 day, tell me where am I gong wrong...?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to "probe" I have a three step process as well 1.diagnose 2. Clean the drain(with the proper equipment,3 cleanup collect and leave. Your k400 prices are the same as our trailor jetter prices. Was that a toilet install or a toilet auger for 600? I'm sorry but to me thats robbery.
Click to expand...

No ****! Only way a toilet is going to cost my customer $600 is if I replace it....


----------



## cable or root

I mean what's up with all these guys who do it wrong the first time hoping to upsell proper service? Go in clean the sewer with the right equipment and the proper sized blade. No one ever went into a sewer line with a good root cutter and thought "oh sh!t that's a soft blockage!" Do the job right the first time. Quality service is priceless and makes you look better to your costumers. Think about it you get there you don't play around make an easy diagnosis(I mean come on drain diagnosis is easy I could teach my 6 year old to diagnose the difference from a sewer b/u and a floor drain b/u) you go in with the k750 run their sewer out to the main. You use a 4" pear so you can feel for offsets and broken spots and so you can feel yourself going into the main. Done in an hour or 2. Pack up, cleanup and leave a warranty. "Ma'am your sewer is fine just had some roots at the end. I cut them out but they're gunna grow back. I could come out on a yearly basis to make sure you won't have this problem anymore" collect 500 or whatever that day but you now have a Costumer for life.

Sounds A lot better than "let me stick this here toilet snake into your sewer it worked one time! Well sir they didn't work if you want me to be done it's 250 but I got a power snake made for sinks that works pretty good it cost 750 for me to use. I'm better than my competition because I give you more options, I also have a sewer machine I'll use it for $1500 and even take the stool auger cost off.

We have a company here that uses a k 400 for sewers here too. They're called Benjamin Franklin. Perhaps you've heard of them.


----------



## Redwood

jnohs said:


> I didn't know you were god and could look directly inside the pipes and see what the problem is.... what happens when you are wrong....... requote your pre quoted price, sounds like bait and switch based on incompetence to believe that you can solve any problem without probing.... and probing cost.


Well as a matter fact I am a plumbing and drain cleaning God. The sooner you figure that out the better off we'll be. 

As a plumbing and drain cleaning God, I don't have to peer inside the pipes to see what is going on. I use proven diagnostic skills and techniques, and observation, to ascertain exactly where the clog is and which drains are affected. I don't resort to guesswork to know where the problem is, and my accuracy is assured.

The price quote I give will be for the most common service, which will correct the customers specific problem. The possibility of additional higher-priced work being required is discussed with the customer. However, it is only work such as the snake not being able to clear a main sewer line due to a broken pipe or other line problem and is a rare circumstance. My work is delivered at the quoted price nearly 100% of the time.

You don't have to be a plumbing and drain cleaning God peering inside of pipes, to know when the pipe is broken. You just need to use the right drain cleaning machine and the right size blade to know. Using a half-inch cable and two or 3 inch blade on a four or 6 inch pipe won't tell you Jack Shiot. That's hole poking, not drain cleaning.

Such is the stuff that plumbing and drain cleaning gods are made of. We have many plumbing and drain cleaning gods on this forum, you would do well to learn from them. Then you will not have to resort to profiting from extra work through your incompetence and misdiagnosis.


----------



## Drain Pro

Redwood said:


> Well as a matter fact I am a plumbing and drain cleaning God. The sooner you figure that out the better off we'll be.
> 
> As a plumbing and drain cleaning God, I don't have to peer inside the pipes to see what is going on. I use proven diagnostic skills and techniques, and observation, to ascertain exactly where the clog is and which drains are affected. I don't resort to guesswork to know where the problem is, and my accuracy is assured.
> 
> The price quote I give will be for the most common service, which will correct the customers specific problem. The possibility of additional higher-priced work being required is discussed with the customer. However, it is only work such as the snake not being able to clear a main sewer line due to a broken pipe or other line problem and is a rare circumstance. My work is delivered at the quoted price nearly 100% of the time.
> 
> You don't have to be a plumbing and drain cleaning God peering inside of pipes, to know when the pipe is broken. You just need to use the right drain cleaning machine and the right size blade to know. Using a half-inch cable and two or 3 inch blade on a four or 6 inch pipe won't tell you Jack Shiot. That's hole poking, not drain cleaning.
> 
> Such is the stuff that plumbing and drain cleaning gods are made of. We have many plumbing and drain cleaning gods on this forum, you would do well to learn from them. Then you will not have to resort to profiting from extra work through your incompetence and misdiagnosis.



If you're God then I'm Jesus Christ. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jnohs

I base my upfront pricing on $249/hour or good by.... The only person getting robbed are the plumbers failing to get top dollar for their service, you are getting robbed of a boat, a home, retirement, a quality education for your kids.... I don't understand why any one here has a problem with making money hand over fist... if i was a hedge fund manager I would make a mill a year and never touch crap once.... I almost swim in crap! and I have to test and know my trade.. I have been test in 4 different municipalities and passed them all. And worked for years to learn the trade... F that I will make more then any one I know or BYe BYE!!! also I live in long island the most expensive place to live in the world, the only difference between nyc and here is rent everything else is the same and I refuse to set my standards lower than need be, in fact I set them as high as I can and then go a little more. 

I never said I was god I said only god can know whats gong on in a pipe under the ground, we can give it our best approach but to think you are going to quote the job correctly every time is a big mistake on your part.

As for showing up with a trailer to jet a pipe, that would be a $1000 minimum or bye bye...... why cant i get the same or better prices than roto rooter, I provide quality emergancy service that people are more than willing to pay. I fmy prices are higher than yours dont hate on me because you cant justafy getting top dollar for your services, sounds like low estime problems,please tell my we do not deserve the same if not more than doctors, lawyesr, accountants, hedgfund managers, none if them get covered in germs and perform there job while doing so, in fact we deserve more...... why not get past your own head and raise your rates.... it our job to make mgood money, it is the customers job to get a good plumber. there is a such thing called the "market" it is a construct of american capitolism... Markets self regulate... what that means is if I charge to much people will not do the jobs ad i will have no repet business.... well I play the market and doing great so far, repeat customers out the wasoo, and first time customers signing up every day... if I was to expensive I would go out of business or if i did bad work I would go out of business, but the opposite is true here I am growing getting more and more repeat customers and now have 3 trucks..... so please tell me where my $750,000 years went wrong..... every years is better than the last, no market check here just growth.... so go work for $85 dollars and hours or show up with a trailer jetter for $600, good luck getting rich and attracting good tech, how much could you afford to pay a tech at $85/hour i mean the last job i had 7 years ago paid $45/ hour and I left because it was not enough...... I will always err on the side of profit, never on the side of cheep plumbing..... that must be for some one else, but not me.......


----------



## jnohs

redwood you must be the second best plumber, you know the the one I have never met.... your attitude towards me is pis poor and your prices are obviously a joke... you know that when I did the manhattan job I made 100x times the rates I am talking here and that was for a contractor.... tell me again how this is robbery.... the contractor loves me I saved his building!!!! and made in my pocket over a$100,000 in 3 months. so please go do some plumbing for someone at half rate while i do not..... you are being suckered by your own self esteem, and it is costing you vig time... it is not up to you to decide if you are charging to much it is the markets choice and the market is choosing me over my competition every day all day long.... ops gotta go got another 40 gallon gas water heater down the block to do for $1500.... BYE BYE!!!!! sucker good luck going out of business!!!!!! oops i mean good luck going ahead in business!!!!


----------



## cable or root

Pricing is not the issue, it's quality of service. In my opinion your services provided aren't worth the $hit around the floor drain, if you use sink cable to poke holes in sewer lines.


----------



## Drain Pro

Guys on here can always argue that we should charge more. As far as I'm concerned business is a marathon, not a sprint. If someone wants to blow a customer up so they can make money "hand over fist", then I say go for it. As far as my price points, I'm comfortable with them. I'm reasonable and profitable. I planning on being in business 30 years from now. I may be wrong and leave a lot of money on the table, but my gut tells me otherwise. Good luck to the "hand over fist crowd." Hope to see you here in 30 years although I wouldn't bet on it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roto-Rooter

We have been in Business 64 years here. I have a new home Truck and equipment paid for and get to go do what me and the wife want. I don't need to tell anyone my prices they have seemed to work for a long time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fixitright

Is it just me or is this a long winded post?


----------



## dragit

We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years

We Bought a massive shop a little over a year ago with at least 2 acres of land...my step dad hardly ever turns a wrench. Hell He doesn't even test backflows anymore.

He also has bought every single one of his kids and step kids a nice vehicle and a house. Lives in a big beautiful home on the east side. My mom buys a new caddy every six months (seems like anyways)

This last 3-4 months have been slower than usual... But we continue to grow. 

That's at $80/h.... So I think he is doing just fine at these rates. And he can sleep at night knowing he isn't screwing every person that calls in a service call


----------



## gear junkie

fixitright said:


> Is it just me or is this a long winded post?


just you.


----------



## Flyout95

dragit said:


> We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years
> 
> We Bought a massive shop a little over a year ago with at least 2 acres of land...my step dad hardly ever turns a wrench. Hell He doesn't even test backflows anymore.
> 
> He also has bought every single one of his kids and step kids a nice vehicle and a house. Lives in a big beautiful home on the east side. My mom buys a new caddy every six months (seems like anyways)
> 
> This last 3-4 months have been slower than usual... But we continue to grow.
> 
> That's at $80/h.... So I think he is doing just fine at these rates. And he can sleep at night knowing he isn't screwing every person that calls in a service call


Where did you say you worked out of?


----------



## gear junkie

dragit said:


> We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years
> 
> We Bought a massive shop a little over a year ago with at least 2 acres of land...my step dad hardly ever turns a wrench. Hell He doesn't even test backflows anymore.
> 
> He also has bought every single one of his kids and step kids a nice vehicle and a house. Lives in a big beautiful home on the east side. My mom buys a new caddy every six months (seems like anyways)
> 
> This last 3-4 months have been slower than usual... But we continue to grow.
> 
> That's at $80/h.... So I think he is doing just fine at these rates. And he can sleep at night knowing he isn't screwing every person that calls in a service call


Just curious....how many plumbers/techs do you have in the field?


----------



## Redwood

jnohs said:


> The only person getting robbed are the plumbers failing to get top dollar for their service, you are getting robbed of a boat, a home, retirement, a quality education for your kids.... I don't understand why any one here has a problem with making money hand over fist...


Why would you think I don't have those things?:whistling2:

I have 2 boats actually, a bassboat and a saltwater fishing boat, I've driven around your small island many times on the way out to the canyon...

I have a decent retirement planned and will soon use it...:yes:

I have a nice home... 

My oldest daughter is a nurse and she just recently turned down an invitation from Yale's Nurse Practitioner Program because at this time she wanted to spend time with her husband and young children...:thumbup:

I don't have a problem making money hand over fist...:no:
But I ensure that no customer pays dividends for my incompetence....
:yes:




jnohs said:


> I never said I was god I said only god can know whats gong on in a pipe under the ground, we can give it our best approach but to think you are going to quote the job correctly every time is a big mistake on your part.


Well that is where you go wrong...

There are simple and logical steps that you can follow to troubleshoot a backed up drainage system that will enable you to give an accurate quote for the work that will take care of the customer's problem...:yes:

None of this requires supernatural powers to see inside of a pipe. It does however involve skills that you obviously do not possess...

There is no excuse for throwing the whole kitchen sink at the customer by auguring a toilet, then snaking a laundry line, then finally cleaning the clogged main sewer line, when you can go straight to the actual problem by diagnosing the customer's problem accurately in the beginning. You are charging customers for your incompetence!




jnohs said:


> As for showing up with a trailer to jet a pipe, that would be a $1000 minimum or bye bye...... why cant i get the same or better prices than roto rooter, I provide quality emergancy service that people are more than willing to pay. I fmy prices are higher than yours dont hate on me because you cant justafy getting top dollar for your services, sounds like low estime problems,please tell my we do not deserve the same if not more than doctors, lawyesr, accountants, hedgfund managers, none if them get covered in germs and perform there job while doing so, in fact we deserve more......[...]


Well I guess we are comparable price wise...
Here in the northeast the cost of living and doing business doesn't vary much...
But in Connecticut we like having that barrier island to weaken hurricanes before they hit us...

Today I was riding in one of 2 box truck jetters we had on the road for the day shift, and there was also 2 trailer jetters out...

We were charging $1300 to show up...

We also charge more than the local company owned Roto Rooter branch, because we have plumbers instead of technicians. I love explaining to cardiologists how I'll be doing an angioplasty on their drain, then we'll do an angiogram to ensure their pipes are okay...

I won't get into the numbers...
Comparing them is like apples to oranges...:whistling2:


----------



## dhal22

> Originally Posted by Redwood:
> 
> We also charge more than Roto Rooter, because we have plumbers instead of technicians. I love explaining to cardiologists how I'll be doing an angioplasty on their drain, then we'll do an angiogram to ensure their pipes are okay...


Excellent statement!


----------



## Flyout95

I've learned how to diagnose plumbing, even undergrounds with no prints. Figuring the likely layout so you know where to rod from... To clear the blockage quickest..


----------



## dragit

gear junkie said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years
> 
> We Bought a massive shop a little over a year ago with at least 2 acres of land...my step dad hardly ever turns a wrench. Hell He doesn't even test backflows anymore.
> 
> He also has bought every single one of his kids and step kids a nice vehicle and a house. Lives in a big beautiful home on the east side. My mom buys a new caddy every six months (seems like anyways)
> 
> This last 3-4 months have been slower than usual... But we continue to grow.
> 
> That's at $80/h.... So I think he is doing just fine at these rates. And he can sleep at night knowing he isn't screwing every person that calls in a service call
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious....how many plumbers/techs do you have in the field?
Click to expand...

Man this year has been a revolving door! We are down a 2-3 guys right now. But it has slowed a bit, so I think that is probably for the best for now.

Right now we are at nine plumbers. Then there is the boss,my step brother (dang near worthless shop hand lol), and the office lady.




Flyout95 said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years
> 
> We Bought a massive shop a little over a year ago with at least 2 acres of land...my step dad hardly ever turns a wrench. Hell He doesn't even test backflows anymore.
> 
> He also has bought every single one of his kids and step kids a nice vehicle and a house. Lives in a big beautiful home on the east side. My mom buys a new caddy every six months (seems like anyways)
> 
> This last 3-4 months have been slower than usual... But we continue to grow.
> 
> That's at $80/h.... So I think he is doing just fine at these rates. And he can sleep at night knowing he isn't screwing every person that calls in a service call
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you say you worked out of?
Click to expand...

Wyoming


----------



## Tommy plumber

jnohs;
I.... made in my pocket over a$100 said:


> *That's it?! Why so little?......*


----------



## Debo22

:detective: this escalated quickly, I need some popcorn for this!


----------



## fixitright

Debo22 said:


> :detective: this escalated quickly, I need some popcorn for this!




And my hip boots.

It's getting a bit deep. :laughing:


----------



## wyplumber

dragit said:


> Man this year has been a revolving door! We are down a 2-3 guys right now. But it has slowed a bit, so I think that is probably for the best for now.
> 
> Right now we are at nine plumbers. Then there is the boss,my step brother (dang near worthless shop hand lol), and the office lady.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wyoming


How much "over a million" with nine plumbers the amount should be well over a million 

Hell the company I work for is just me the owner and a helper and we do over a million granted quite a bit is equipment we sell


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## gear junkie

wyplumber said:


> How much "over a million" with nine plumbers the amount should be well over a million
> 
> Hell the company I work for is just me the owner and a helper and we do over a million granted quite a bit is equipment we sell


The numbers don't seem right...guessing you guys don't have much in the way of benefits?


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## sierra2000

dragit said:


> We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years We Bought a massive shop a little over a year ago with at least 2 acres of land...my step dad hardly ever turns a wrench. Hell He doesn't even test backflows anymore. He also has bought every single one of his kids and step kids a nice vehicle and a house. Lives in a big beautiful home on the east side. My mom buys a new caddy every six months (seems like anyways) This last 3-4 months have been slower than usual... But we continue to grow. That's at $80/h.... So I think he is doing just fine at these rates. And he can sleep at night knowing he isn't screwing every person that calls in a service call


 $80/h x 40 hours week @ 52 weeks times 9 is $1,497,600 IF you're billing 40 hours a week, more like 20-25 max. Deduct for vacation, holidays and any sick time for 9 guys, ain't no way you're grossing that much at $80/ hour. I say B.S.


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## sierra2000

I'd say you guys are around $680,000 tops.


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## fixitright

H*ll with the hip boots, I'm going for the chest waders. 

How will I keep my popcorn dry?

The longest threads have been well into the hundreds of pages, ways to go folks.


----------



## dragit

sierra2000 said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years We Bought a massive shop a little over a year ago with at least 2 acres of land...my step dad hardly ever turns a wrench. Hell He doesn't even test backflows anymore. He also has bought every single one of his kids and step kids a nice vehicle and a house. Lives in a big beautiful home on the east side. My mom buys a new caddy every six months (seems like anyways) This last 3-4 months have been slower than usual... But we continue to grow. That's at $80/h.... So I think he is doing just fine at these rates. And he can sleep at night knowing he isn't screwing every person that calls in a service call
> 
> 
> 
> $80/h x 40 hours week @ 52 weeks times 9 is $1,497,600 IF you're billing 40 hours a week, more like 20-25 max. Deduct for vacation, holidays and any sick time for 9 guys, ain't no way you're grossing that much at $80/ hour. I say B.S.
Click to expand...


Not taking in account we are a 24/7 on call company. Or the big bid jobs that we do well on. Or sh!t like when I test 16-17 backflows in one day at 85 a pop. 

Also not taking into account machine/snake/backhoe/equipment fees charged (granted some of that goes into maintenance of said equipment). Also not taking in profit made of parts.

I don't know what the last couple or few years have been. But when I last ran the office, we did 1.3mil... And we have done nothing but grow since then.

Guess since you can't do, it no one can?


----------



## dragit

fixitright said:


> H*ll with the hip boots, I'm going for the chest waders.
> 
> How will I keep my popcorn dry?
> 
> The longest threads have been well into the hundreds of pages, ways to go folks.


We can do it! I think Michael is here with his popcorn already (Facebook joke)


----------



## sierra2000

dragit said:


> Not taking in account we are a 24/7 on call company. Or the big bid jobs that we do well on. Or sh!t like when I test 16-17 backflows in one day at 85 a pop. Also not taking into account machine/snake/backhoe/equipment fees charged (granted some of that goes into maintenance of said equipment). Also not taking in profit made of parts. I don't know what the last couple or few years have been. But when I last ran the office, we did 1.3mil... And we have done nothing but grow since then. Guess since you can't do, it no one can?


 looking through your posts I see you back pedal a lot.


----------



## fixitright

They be determined. 

A few hundred pages to go.
Will I ever get to bed?

Think I'll go for the cheese popcorn next.
Kinda messy but the waders are on.


----------



## dragit

sierra2000 said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not taking in account we are a 24/7 on call company. Or the big bid jobs that we do well on. Or sh!t like when I test 16-17 backflows in one day at 85 a pop. Also not taking into account machine/snake/backhoe/equipment fees charged (granted some of that goes into maintenance of said equipment). Also not taking in profit made of parts. I don't know what the last couple or few years have been. But when I last ran the office, we did 1.3mil... And we have done nothing but grow since then. Guess since you can't do, it no one can?
> 
> 
> 
> looking through your posts I see you back pedal a lot.
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? 

curious if your trying to make a point or just trolling. Cuz you seem to do a lot of trolling. 

Got people claiming to do well over a mil ever year with a three man shop but your trolling on our shop that employs anywhere from 8-14 guys at any given time. 

Every single invoice is ran through the accounting software and gives a nice perdy graph of exactly what's going on with the company. I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass. Just going off of the numbers I had 3 years ago when I was the person in front of the compute

Oh sorry! software is a thing you use on computers. You know those fancy gizmos that you use to surf the Internet and troll on other plumbers? Ya those things


----------



## gear junkie

dragit said:


> *Care to elaborate?*
> 
> curious if your trying to make a point or just trolling. Cuz you seem to do a lot of trolling.
> 
> Got people claiming to do well over a mil ever year with a three man shop but your trolling on our shop that employs anywhere from 8-14 guys at any given time.
> 
> Every single invoice is ran through the accounting software and gives a nice perdy graph of exactly what's going on with the company.
> 
> Oh sorry, software is a thing you use on computers. You know those fancy gizmos that you use to surf the Internet and troll on other plumbers? Ya those things


Maybe he's referring to this thread? You did well to pull out all those roots with 3/8 cable but seemed to neglect the fact that you got stuck until fixit called you out. 

"I'll take that is a compliment.

I will admit I got the k400 buried into the roots once and had to tie the cable to the truck and back out. I pulled out a 3.5" thick 5ft long chunk of roots that time. 

After that chunk the rest was "easy"... It was slow going... But the worst was part was pulled out when I hooked it to the truck."

ohhhh.....ahhhhh....neglected to mention the tiny detail of a truck getting your cable out.

Back to the numbers.....those numbers aren't enough. You should be grossing way more. That's why I made the comment on your benefits. Guessing your pay sucks as well....well the employees.....not the family. But sounds like you got it all figured out. 

BTW....myself and many here know Sierra personally.....as in meet him in person, talk to him in person, etc. He's as real as they come.


----------



## Drain Pro

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sierra2000

dragit said:


> Care to elaborate? curious if your trying to make a point or just trolling. Cuz you seem to do a lot of trolling. Got people claiming to do well over a mil ever year with a three man shop but your trolling on our shop that employs anywhere from 8-14 guys at any given time. Every single invoice is ran through the accounting software and gives a nice perdy graph of exactly what's going on with the company. Oh sorry, software is a thing you use on computers. You know those fancy gizmos that you use to surf the Internet and troll on other plumbers? Ya those things


 Don't get mad at me cause you know I'm probably spot on with your numbers. Your numbers make no sense. Even at $1.3 mil with 9 guys and 18 back flows a day, equipment, material and travel fees, that's stupid! Too much working hard for nothing, I wouldn't be bragging bout that. That's what the company pulls in. What do you make? Can't be much huh? You working too damn hard at $80/hour and that's ALL your 9 guys bring in? You troll through your own posts just in this thread and see how much you back pedal. I'm a OMS and bring in what 3 of you do.


----------



## sierra2000

Don't worry bout it Ben. I like calling guys out on their numbers. He can call me a troll all he wants. The math doesn't add up. He did say it's a revolving door around there. I wonder why?


----------



## dragit

gear junkie said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Care to elaborate?*
> 
> curious if your trying to make a point or just trolling. Cuz you seem to do a lot of trolling.
> 
> Got people claiming to do well over a mil ever year with a three man shop but your trolling on our shop that employs anywhere from 8-14 guys at any given time.
> 
> Every single invoice is ran through the accounting software and gives a nice perdy graph of exactly what's going on with the company.
> 
> Oh sorry, software is a thing you use on computers. You know those fancy gizmos that you use to surf the Internet and troll on other plumbers? Ya those things
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he's referring to this thread? You did well to pull out all those roots with 3/8 cable but seemed to neglect the fact that you got stuck until fixit called you out.
> 
> "I'll take that is a compliment.
> 
> I will admit I got the k400 buried into the roots once and had to tie the cable to the truck and back out. I pulled out a 3.5" thick 5ft long chunk of roots that time.
> 
> After that chunk the rest was "easy"... It was slow going... But the worst was part was pulled out when I hooked it to the truck."
> 
> ohhhh.....ahhhhh....neglected to mention the tiny detail of a truck getting your cable out.
> 
> Back to the numbers.....those numbers aren't enough. You should be grossing way more. That's why I made the comment on your benefits. Guessing your pay sucks as well....well the employees.....not the family. But sounds like you got it all figured out.
> 
> BTW....myself and many here know Sierra personally.....as in meet him in person, talk to him in person, etc. He's as real as they come.
Click to expand...

We have no bennies besides vac pay. Even me, does not get insurance We are not paying the $7000+ a month to insure our guys (about what the last quote I seen was when we recently thought about doing it) But everyone is paid well (for our area... Sounds like plumbers do a lot better in other parts of the country). I recently talked to a journeyman who worked for a competing company who was paid like $18/h. None of our guys are getting screwed like that!

And.....Most the company is paid far better than me. I just get taken care of outside of the company because I'm family.


Besides all that, I still got it done with the k400 because i had to get it done. Never did I say "I did not get stuck". Someone said something so I elaborated on the events that took place to get the job done. Never denied it once or "back pedaled. Nor did I lie.

Ya'll really that butt hurt because I left out the details of the struggle? I'm sure the picture of the roots and the claim it was done with k400, you all should already know it wasn't a easy battle. I never once lied about it. So quit acting like I did.


----------



## dragit

sierra2000 said:


> Don't worry bout it Ben. I like calling guys out on their numbers. He can call me a troll all he wants. The math doesn't add up. He did say it's a revolving door around there. I wonder why?


Hire hands and find out they are Stealing. Plumbers who have no people skills and run off big accounts. Whining and botching because they tested 15 backflows in a day and only got paid the 8hours it took them rather than each backflow (after the boss pays for the school and their time to go to school just two months before that) It's a revolving door because everyone thinks they are entitled for whatever reason when my step dad bends over backwards for them. 

You've never had a boss as laid back as my pops. And because of how he is, everyone just thinks they can walk on him. Your probably one of them guys I'm sure


----------



## fixitright

Can I go to bed now?

It's after 10 here.

You boys play nice.


----------



## sierra2000

You sound like an alright guy and every area is different economically. It's really none of my business what you guys do or don't do, so to each his own. But...


----------



## cable or root

Switch to flat rate and commission. The unproductive ones will earn their fair share(little as it may be) and the work horses will earn theirs as well. It works pretty good. No such thing as a well fed lazy commission based plumber.the revolving door thing should slow down some.


----------



## Redwood

cable or root said:


> *Switch to flat rate and commission. The unproductive ones will earn their fair share(little as it may be) and the work horses will earn theirs as well.* It works pretty good. No such thing as a well fed lazy commission based plumber.the revolving door thing should slow down some.


Yea... I like that...
Good plumbers shouldn't have to carry dead weight...:thumbsup:

I'll never, ever, work at a T&M Company again...
Commission based pay has a self cleaning effect...
Slackers get hungry and look for a new job pretty quick...

With the right crew everyone make a ton of money...


----------



## dragit

cable or root said:


> Switch to flat rate and commission. The unproductive ones will earn their fair share(little as it may be) and the work horses will earn theirs as well. It works pretty good. No such thing as a well fed lazy commission based plumber.the revolving door thing should slow down some.


I like that idea! I could make a ton of money (most days anyways). 

I can't even imagine how I would present that idea to the boss. Hard to make a old guy change the way he (and his dad) has done things all his life.


----------



## Roto-Rooter

Glad this is all over.

Now to something new.......I Hope!!!


----------



## Flyout95

I just cleared a bunch of roots with 40 zip strips tired together.


----------



## Redwood

Flyout95 said:


> I just cleared a bunch of roots with 40 zip strips tired together.


Yea.... That's the ticket!:laughing:

The whole pipe was packed solid...
Yea.... That's the ticket!

For 15' solid...
Yea.... That's the ticket!

I'm Tommy Flanagan and I'm a master plumber...
Yea.... That's the ticket!

I've got 35-40 guys in vans...
Yea.... That's the ticket!

We gross about $250k a week...
Yea.... That's the ticket!

I'll post my intro soon...
Yea.... That's the ticket!


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## sierra2000

Roto-Rooter said:


> Glad this is all over. Now to something new.......I Hope!!!


 Bashing another plumber in publics view is something I said I'd try to stop.


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## wharfrat

I didn't think you were bashing, just questioning the numbers that do smell fishy.


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## dragit

wharfrat said:


> I didn't think you were bashing, just questioning the numbers that do smell fishy.



One guy says it's too much money and calls bs.... Then Another guy backs him up but says we should be doin far more. Im to the point I think you guys just like to **** with the new guy of the forum. 

I'd have to go back and see what year I was in the office when I had those numbers at my finger tips (not that it really that relevant), but we didn't have as many plumbers then... And I couldn't even tell you what exactly it (our gross) has been in the years after that year (but we have grown every year). But I can't seeing it go anywhere but up with more plumbers (assuming the hands weren't ****ing the boss). I'm not here to try to impress anyone or show anyone how it's done. Quite the opposite actually.


Not sure how it became a bash fest on me. Must be pains of being the new young guy on the plumbing forums. 

Maybe I should have kept lurking instead of trying to be part of the forum. I was just excited to have cleared that main and (after reading the forum for over a year) I wanted to share with you guys (regardless of the machine I used I would have be stoked). It was the worst that me, personally, have ever ran into. 

But Instead I got 17 pages of grown men talking **** to someone for god knows why. Great community and good bunch of guys here! 

I' started plumbing for him when I was 18. I'm 28 years old now and the last year and a half I finally started taking my career path more seriously (kids apparently have that effect). I came to this forum to learn, not tell fibs or argue with people (Get enough of that on Facebook).


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## gear junkie

Calm down Dragit. Don't try so hard man. We only get better when challenged of what we think is right. Stick around.


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## gear junkie

BTW....17 pages?! You can switch posts per page setting. I'm only seeing this as 5 pages.


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## MACK ATTAKK

gear junkie said:


> I sold my 3800 when I got my K50.


That is what I use. It does everything the 3800 does and more. There are many options with the various drums ect.


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## MACK ATTAKK

Redwood said:


> Profit by misdiagnosis....:yes:


Lol


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## Redwood

The point is no matter what your taste, Drums or Sectionals...
There isn't a single machine that will do them all...

To cover the full range of drain cleaning you are going to need one machine for the large diameter lines, and another for the smaller ones...

To each their own taste...

However, no matter how you look at it...
The K-400 is a red headed stepchild somewhere in the middle and all it adds is a 3rd machine that doesn't do anything the other 2 won't do already...

Kinda useless...
But you might make money with it and think you are justified in carrying one...
But really you aren't...


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## wharfrat

Stay for a while dragit, its nice to have members with opinions and experience.


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## Tommy plumber

Redwood said:


> The point is no matter what your taste, Drums or Sectionals...
> There isn't a single machine that will do them all...
> 
> To cover the full range of drain cleaning you are going to need one machine for the large diameter lines, and another for the smaller ones...
> 
> To each their own taste...
> 
> ..
















I agree 100%.


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## Roto-Rooter

That's all I have. Works great for me.

Old model 55: Roto-Rooter 4100 and the jetter: 

Gets everything done here


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## dragit

Just Ordered me 75' more of c10 and a 15' section of innercore (just in case)

Also grabbed me a few of the spiral root saw augers that ridgid sells (as well as a small selection of augers for the 5/8 cable)


I feel like I should order some length of the stiffer 5/8 cable (for 3" mop and floor sinks)but not sure if that would be the c7 or the c9. I just have 35' of c8 (at the moment anyways) for smaller branch lines.

I believe this setup will handle 99.9% of anything I run into (with my k45af to compliment it)


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## Flyout95

dragit said:


> Just Ordered me 75' more of c10 and a 15' section of innercore (just in case)
> 
> Also grabbed me a few of the spiral root saw augers that ridgid sells (as well as a small selection of augers for the 5/8 cable)
> 
> 
> I feel like I should order some length of the stiffer 5/8 cable (for 3" mop and floor sinks)but not sure if that would be the c7 or the c9. I just have 35' of c8 (at the moment anyways) for smaller branch lines.
> 
> I believe this setup will handle 99.9% of anything I run into (with my k45af to compliment it)


Make a reverse auger and get a clog chopper


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## dhal22

Redwood said:


> The point is no matter what your taste, Drums or Sectionals...
> There isn't a single machine that will do them all...
> 
> To cover the full range of drain cleaning you are going to need one machine for the large diameter lines, and another for the smaller ones...
> 
> To each their own taste...
> 
> However, no matter how you look at it...
> The K-400 is a red headed stepchild somewhere in the middle and all it adds is a 3rd machine that doesn't do anything the other 2 won't do already...
> 
> Kinda useless...
> But you might make money with it and think you are justified in carrying one...
> But really you aren't...


I'll happily keep mine just for 2 and 3" traps.


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## sierra2000

Reverse auger, what is that? Anyone have a picture


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## Redwood

dhal22 said:


> I'll happily keep mine just for 2 and 3" traps.


That's fine... To each their own...
But you are still carrying the other 2 machines...

Right?:laughing:


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## dhal22

Nope, I usually carry a full sized machine in the van. And a jetter behind it. I parked the little K400 at the shop. It's there when I need it.


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## dragit

sierra2000 said:


> Reverse auger, what is that? Anyone have a picture


It's basically a cable with the end cut off and a bend put in it so it scrapes the walls of the pipe. I'll find a picture and post it after I get these backflows tested


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## dhal22

dhal22 said:


> Nope, I usually carry a full sized machine in the van. And a jetter behind it. I parked the little K400 at the shop. It's there when I need it.


I keep a super vee on the van as well.


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## ChrisConnor

dragit said:


> We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years


Not that I want to stir the pot, but over a million a year and you didn't already have decent drain machines on your trucks??


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## Debo22

dragit said:


> It's basically a cable with the end cut off and a bend put in it so it scrapes the walls of the pipe. I'll find a picture and post it after I get these backflows tested


Redwood, I remember you posting a picture of the bent end a while ago. Will you post it again, thank you.


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## sierra2000

dragit said:


> It's basically a cable with the end cut off and a bend put in it so it scrapes the walls of the pipe. I'll find a picture and post it after I get these backflows tested


 Looks like I've been doing that for years and didn't know it


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## Redwood

Debo22 said:


> Redwood, I remember you posting a picture of the bent end a while ago. Will you post it again, thank you.


I use this bend on 1/4" and 3/8" cables for smaller lines..

!/2" cable is the smallest one I'll put a blade on...










This bend with slight modifications will navigate easily through turns and do a nice job of scraping the pipe and removing hair...

Most of the modifications involve only the tip of the bend. It should always extend downward past the straight cable to find drops. The length of the tip bend is varied for pipe size and aggressiveness...


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## ChrisConnor

dragit said:


> It's basically a cable with the end cut off and a bend put in it so it scrapes the walls of the pipe. I'll find a picture and post it after I get these backflows tested


A reverse auger is an end-less sectional cable that's bent and also the naked wind is flared out a bit like a drop head closet auger. Sectional cables are wound opposite of drum machines, and drill into a stoppage when in reverse rotation. 

The curve that RW has demonstrated isn't a reverse auger, but akin to the cobra bend and used on drum machines. (And is the best thing going for small cables)


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## Drain Pro

My bend is similar to Reds although I think I like his better. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wharfrat

That is my bend too. I never heard a name for it until now.


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## dragit

ChrisConnor said:


> dragit said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have done over a million every year for at least the last three years
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I want to stir the pot, but over a million a year and you didn't already have decent drain machines on your trucks??
Click to expand...

Read the whole thread. Around here, plumbers and plumbers and drain cleaners are drain cleaners.

We have a litter of smaller drum machines in the shop.... But for years, if it wasn't a simple stoppage, we didn't really do it. 

Every shop in town takes that stance on it


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## dhal22

Redwood said:


> I use this bend on 1/4" and 3/8" cables for smaller lines..
> 
> !/2" cable is the smallest one I'll put a blade on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This bend with slight modifications will navigate easily through turns and do a nice job of scraping the pipe and removing hair...



Nice, that would work great on my new K400!


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## Redwood

dhal22 said:


> Nice, that would work great on my new K400!


If you are running 1/2" cable in it I wouldn't bend it...
I'd run the blade instead...


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## cable or root

When I run 3/8 I use a simular setup except I run 2 kinks behind the bends. If scale is an issue or there are several hard 90's close together I straighten up the front for the most part and put a 65(ish) bend in the front 3/4"-1" of the cable and some offset kinks about 2' back. If the line is really packed with grease I'll do the kinks in trapazoids. Wish I had a picture. Either way with the right kinks you can clean any secondary line way better than a blade. In a simular Gassion I use 1/4 with 5" kinks to clean dryer vents. Still 5/8 sectional is king when it comes to sinks washers and floor drains/floor sinks and showers. The KENWAY jr just kinda sits waiting for special circumstances now.


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## tims007

Redwood said:


> I use this bend on 1/4" and 3/8" cables for smaller lines..
> 
> !/2" cable is the smallest one I'll put a blade on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This bend with slight modifications will navigate easily through turns and do a nice job of scraping the pipe and removing hair...
> 
> Most of the modifications involve only the tip of the bend. It should always extend downward past the straight cable to find drops. The length of the tip bend is varied for pipe size and aggressiveness...


this bend was tought to me 15 years ago .. i use it on my k45AF .. on the k400 i just do a tip bend right after the welding on the tip. i keep the connector on there just encase i need to use a drop head or cutter or paddle. nost of the time on kitchen galvy lines it is run with no tip due to tightness of the line ..


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## Greg755

> I've never ran a sectional. But I can see so many benefits to one I decided to order one without trying it.


If your buying a sectional for main lines get a K1500. Strong and reliable. You can buy them used on Craigs list and ebay


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## fixitright

greg755 said:


> if your buying a sectional for main lines get a k1500. Strong and reliable. You can buy them used on craigs list and ebay




one word:

Dreel


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## cable or root

Wow 20 pages later and the conversation has shifted from k400 to the dreel setup.


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## Redwood

cable or root said:


> Wow 20 pages later and the conversation has shifted from k400 to the dreel setup.



Damn thread shifters...
Should ban all the sectional users that do these thread shifting off topic posts.
Real drain cleaners don't let friends use sectionals...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fixitright

Can't the K400 do everything the Dreel can?


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## cable or root

Nah, the real money is in rubber blow bags and hand spinners. We just haven't caught on yet.


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## ChrisConnor

The real money is in drain cleaning chemicals.


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## sparky

dragit said:


> 185" is a long run (especially in glenrock?!) . Especially to run in that many times. I'd be WORE OUT lol. I've never needed more than 100" of cable... So far anyways. But I haven't had to do many mains till this year.


I Don't like to run much over 100'-0" in a pipe


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## sparky

dragit said:


> I took a call at 10pm one night like 6 months ago. Basement flooding from a broken supply line (2 minute fix).
> 
> I helped the lady out (her husband was out of town) and didn't bother charging her anything. It was a easy fix and a supply line is cheap.
> 
> Today I went back to repair their kitchen faucet and the husband gave me this in thanks for what I did that night.
> 
> He bought it in 1987 (year I was born lol)... Ducks Unlimited 50th anniversary Buck knife. Never been out of the case. Brought a tear to my eye!
> 
> THATS why I do what I do and love doing it.


You can get by not charging like that because you are boss's son and not responsible for the bills day in and day out,even if I don't get drain open there is still a charge


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## sparky

jnohs said:


> never never never quote prices over the phone... if the customer is adait about a price over the pone they are looking for a good price not a good plumber.... tell them you will need to see the problem before quoting... if they demand pricing over and over give them a general price and tell them you could be wrong based on there description over the phone you can in no way diagnose a plumbing problem correctly over the phone and after they are adamant and if you are forced to give a general price to this pain in the ass customer, before leaving to go to there plumbing tell that but head customer it is $89 dollars to go and give the quote if they do the job you will waive the fee, this will immediately get rid of pain customers that you do not want. and also get you customer you do want, now I use a sliding scale here if the customer never mentions"quote,price, estimate and says I need a plumber" that's music to my ears on my way no $89 dollar waiver fee, but if they say how much or estimate or quote or want you there after their working hours they arelooking for price not a plumber $89 waiver fee. also it is important to go the if you do the job you save the $89 dollars because if they know no matter what they will have to give you the $89 dollars and now they are amazed that it could cost them that much if they think they are going to get that $89 dollars back they are more inclined to do the job, but if they know that no matter what they will have to fork up the $89 dollars they will more likely just give you the money and try to save on the next guy, people like this need to feel like they are getting a deal, and buy offering to waive the $89 they will feel satisfied that they saved a buck....or they won't and you get your $89 for 5 minutes and bye bye ad you will never hear from that pain again...


What????:laughing:


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## Drain Pro

I've said it before and I'll say it again: All my time is billable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sparky

dragit said:


> Care to elaborate?
> 
> curious if your trying to make a point or just trolling. Cuz you seem to do a lot of trolling.
> 
> Got people claiming to do well over a mil ever year with a three man shop but your trolling on our shop that employs anywhere from 8-14 guys at any given time.
> 
> Every single invoice is ran through the accounting software and gives a nice perdy graph of exactly what's going on with the company. I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass. Just going off of the numbers I had 3 years ago when I was the person in front of the compute
> 
> Oh sorry! software is a thing you use on computers. You know those fancy gizmos that you use to surf the Internet and troll on other plumbers? Ya those things


It's crystal clear as to why you are no longer in the office,:laughing::laughing: in front of the computer :laughing::laughing::yes:


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## dhal22

When you come to a fork in the road, take it. Thanks Yogi, great statement. What do I do here when there a multiple directions in the fork?


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## dhal22

I used my little K400 again today. Just felt like not dragging in a full size machine inside a little house unless necessary. It appears there is some toilet paper hanging around. I bent the little 3/8" cable and descaled about 40' of old cast iron. Did not take a picture of the finished product but the customer should be good for awhile.


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## Mr Plumber

How is a k-400 rated for 1.5" lines when none of the tools for 3/8 cable fit down 1.5" pipe?
Smh


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## dhal22

Just a little kink in the cable...........


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## dragit

I've actually run into a situation or two lately I wish I had the k400 rather than my k60. But it's not often enough for me to justify keeping it on my little truck (space is a premium in a Toyota Tacoma lol)


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## cable or root

Get you a k50 and a 50' 5/16 drum. Well worth it and dosn't take up a lot of room.


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## tims007

dhal22 said:


> Just a little kink in the cable...........


this is what i do


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## sparky

Mr Plumber said:


> How is a k-400 rated for 1.5" lines when none of the tools for 3/8 cable fit down 1.5" pipe?
> Smh


Unibody know if I can get some bigger heads for the 1/2" cable for the k-400???I have the 3 head set that came with machine that fits both 3/8" and 1/2" cables that come with it,was needing a larger head for 3" lines if they make it:yes:


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## Letterrip

Don't the k50 heads fit that? Or am I mistaken?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fixitright

Doesn't seem to be much of a selection (that I've seen) for the K-50.

I use the Ridgid 1/2" cable with the same cutter selection.


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## Mr Plumber

tims007 said:


> this bend was tought to me 15 years ago .. i use it on my k45AF .. on the k400 i just do a tip bend right after the welding on the tip. i keep the connector on there just encase i need to use a drop head or cutter or paddle. nost of the time on kitchen galvy lines it is run with no tip due to tightness of the line ..


Thanks for the advice on this hook. I turned a 400 into a working tool again. I cut off the end with an angle grinder and left a little point on the end. Between that and the hook bend this is the only machine I use on kitchen sink lines and sand filled 3" floor drains. Excellent advice. :thumbsup:


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## dhal22

I continue to grab a K400 when I have a 3" trap or 2nd floor toilet to clear. It works.


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## sparky

So there is not any bigger heads that I can get with the 1/2" cable using the k-400????


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## Drain Pro

sparky said:


> So there is not any bigger heads that I can get with the 1/2" cable using the k-400????




You may have to switch cable brands or ends if you want to run a bigger blade. Spartan 1/2" cables run an adequate size blade for 3". If you put a general type end on it, you can run as big as you like but I wouldn't go over a 4" blade. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dhal22

Another busy restaurant drain cleared through a 3" p trap with my little k400. Then blasted the line clear with my jetter. Now I have a happy customer and a big check.


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## tims007

love my k400 and jetter


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## Fatpat

What jetter?


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## sparky

sparky said:


> Unibody know if I can get some bigger heads for the 1/2" cable for the k-400???I have the 3 head set that came with machine that fits both 3/8" and 1/2" cables that come with it,was needing a larger head for 3" lines if they make it:yes:


Update,Marvin at an Coleman made me a 4-blade spade cutter for 3" pipe and it works good,he said that was all he knew I could use on the 1/2" cable:yes:


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