# Plumbing Wholesale



## John Craig (Oct 9, 2008)

I started in the plumbing field over 30 years ago. At the time wholesale suppliers sold only to licensed contractors . The supplier loyalty to the contractors really gave us a huge advantage in pricing and specialty items, Now days all the wholesalers cater to anyone and everyone. Handymen,Maintenance departments and homeowners. Yes our pricing is better but in the end our profits are smaller due to fact we now have a ceiling of what we can charge the customer. 
I believe this practice is industry specific to plumbing. The HVAC and Electrical Suppliers in my area sell to contractors only. 

Any thoughts?

John Craig


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Same issue here. It really sucks.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

:yes:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I blame it on all these tv shows where it looks like they build a house in 30 minutes. They are the ones that show the ho's how "easy" it is to remodel a bathroom so you don't have to hire a licensed contractor. I bet half the stuff they do isn't code compliant. I was watching ask this old house and the plumber (Richard Thuey or whatever) on there used a brass ferrell on a pex supply tube.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

ever watch ed the plumber? That one can be a hoot.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Yeah I did. He was also on some other shows like that. Man, I can't remember what they were.


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

My main wholesaler(about a year ago sold a complete hydronics system to a guy that had phoned me looking for price over phone. I said I need drawings of house. He said good bye. 2 weeks later he calls again, can u install my equipment I got frm********* wholesale. wtf.... thats my wholesaler. I called them, and they said it was new co, policey to increase sales. I decreaded those sales by about 200k a year.:brows:
They keep callin me back wondering why I don't grace them with my $$$$. Oh well.:whistling2:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I noticed that around here as well. Plumbing supply houses sell to anyone, but the HVAC supplies you have to be a contractor with them and have an account. It always rubbed me the wrong way. 

The other thing that annoys me is manufactures saying how they only sell to pro's but then you see their product online being sold at the same prices we pay for them sometimes even less. Or you find them in hardware stores with very little markup on them.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Gotta ask yourself what the gain is for the plumbing supply house to sell exclusively to plumbers for a reduced cost.



Now ask yourself if you would limit your customers to those who are living in 100,000.00 homes and want better pricing than the one who randomly spends and lives in a 1/4 million dollar home. 

I'm talking frequency here.

Plumbing supply houses will take every dollar they can get right now...and big box stores offer more inventory (these days) with the customer given the ability to touch/feel/see what they're buying. 

You don't get that at a plumbing supply house these days.

You get an aged book with very little pictures, then you're brought back toi the land of cardboard boxes and stray, homeless fittings here and there. 

And to open a new box is almost insulting to the counter boy that expects you to "just buy" and move on.

Two of my suppliers has a showroom separate from their supply house and I cannot see how they are staying afloat.

When everyone sees what is purchased out of a big box store, the level of "risk" goes way down when people talk to each other and mention they bought at the big box stores.


In the big picture, these supply houses will probably get bought up by one huge company and there won't be diversity. It's the only way they are going to compete at this point because the hard losses are stacking up.....and with the big box stores seeing the steady,

prepare the grave yard for some new attendants. :blink:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

house plumber said:


> I blame it on all these tv shows where it looks like they build a house in 30 minutes. They are the ones that show the ho's how "easy" it is to remodel a bathroom so you don't have to hire a licensed contractor. I bet half the stuff they do isn't code compliant. I was watching ask this old house and the plumber (Richard Thuey or whatever) on there used a brass ferrell on a pex supply tube.


That's exactly it!:thumbup:
Blame it right where it started with Bob Villa and this old house...:whistling2:
Everyone became a know it all cause they saw how easy it was on TV...
Then came Big Box stores to cater to them.

Both Us and the Plumbing Supply Houses are in a fight for survival because of it.

How it plays out remains to be seen but there is going to be a whole lot of adapting going on and those who fail to adapt will be hanging around with T-Rex down at the museum...

Add in the wonderful economy and the ones who adapt to the conditions may survive. Rest assured no bailouts are in the cards for us. Even though the ones who are getting the bailouts don't come close to deserving them...

It seems to qualify for a bailout you have to be a banker or, investor who through a series of bad choices became a person that deserved to be in a museum next to the T-Rex fossil...

But for some odd reason the goverment steps in and interferes with Darwin's Theory of Evolution bailing thes inept bankers and investors out...

I have the bailout plan that would have worked much better than throwing billions of dollars of money to those that have aready demonstrated an inability to handle money...


All we hear of is golden parachutes, bonuses, & and money shifted overseas....

My plan would be a one time payout of $230 trillion and not one penny more...
Give $1M to every Working American Citizen that is 25 or, older.
If the own a house they must pay off the morgage!
If they are renting they must buy a house and pay for it with their money from the pay out.
Money left over must then be used to buy a new car with a majority of it's parts made in this country and it must be assembled in this country.
Then money left over must be used to buy applianceswith a majority of it's parts made in this country and it must be assembled in this country.
And so on until $5K remains and that must go into a basic savings account.
Any one wanna vote for me? :laughing:
Redwood for President 2012


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

only one problem see. It should be one million to every WORKING american citizen. Yeah, you have my vote


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

house plumber said:


> only one problem see. It should be one million to every WORKING american citizen. Yeah, you have my vote


Change made sorry about that!
It was not my intention to take care of non-working citizens...:laughing:
We know where they need to be...


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

much better :thumbsup:


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

************************


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Supply houses must love Jo Home owners questions. I know if I'm ever in a Depot or lowes for anything I make sure I don't have a a company shirt and park far away.
I need ah its about this big by that long by this wide and you screw it in. :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

UnclogNH said:


> Supply houses must love Jo Home owners questions. I know if I'm ever in a Depot or lowes for anything I make sure I don't have a a company shirt and park far away.
> I need ah its about this big by that long by this wide and you screw it in. :laughing:


I find it even more fun to see what Homer sends the DIYer out the door with. Stand around and watch that some times...:laughing:


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

A market is a market. Assuming you have a 100 item demand per year in a given market, then you're only going to sell 100 items in that area.

Why a wholesaler would confuse that market by selling directly to the end user is beyond me. It has cost them relationships and sales in the end. By trying to be more competitive, they have actually only confused and are diluting their market share by forcing those that buy from them professionally to seek a product or service that isn't offered over the counter to the end user. If this means their old clients switch brands or buy from out of the market area, then they will do that in order to try to stay competitive.

Its a myopic view and an act of desperation for a wholesaler to think that there is profit or numbers to be had in selling to Joe Homeowner. They have a professional and highly trained staff in sales, and they are supported dollar wise by having a professional and highly trained customer, the Plumber. Why would you take that high dollar sales force and turn their attention away from those they can help quickly and in high volume to those that require hand holding and and education before they are even smart enough to know what they want? The answer is, you can't. Even WalMart and Home Depot realize that. That is why finding help in one of those places is almost as hard as finding a product made in North America. 

The biggest problem is, its also a Pandora's box. Once they start, they can't just turn off that strategy or they risk losing the end user sales and thus reduce their total market share in the area. The opposite of what they wanted in the first place. 

Once you piss a plumber off, you can't unpiss him.

One day, the accountants and the lawyers of this world will realize that when all is said and done, the stock holder is much less important than the customer. Until then, get in the bread line and have your tin cups at the ready. It's gonna be a bumpy ride.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Redwood said:


> That's exactly it!:thumbup:
> Blame it right where it started with Bob Villa and this old house...:whistling2:
> Everyone became a know it all cause they saw how easy it was on TV...
> Then came Big Box stores to cater to them.
> ...


Sounds great Only problem. "Greed" Soon after The first 1 million dollar payments you would see the frist $100.00 dollar Snickers bar $350.00 for a bag of Lay's chips $50.00 roll of toilet paper.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

UnclogNH said:


> Sounds great Only problem. "Greed" Soon after The first 1 million dollar payments you would see the frist $100.00 dollar Snickers bar $350.00 for a bag of Lay's chips $50.00 roll of toilet paper.


Yep like greed had nothing to do with the shape we are in today...:laughing:


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

You got it we as a people will never learn. Greedy greedy.

Would be nice even if goverment took people who had ajustable morgages but bought smart not stupid people who buy a 400k home on 43k per year income.
My morgage sucks But I bought cheap because of the adjustable rate I knew I would get hit with. Would be Nice if Uncle Sam would reward me buy buying out my loan. Because I'm on time with payments and broke. Reward me with a 1%-2% APR on my home loan
would be bail out for me. I would be doing cart wheels.


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## NickTex (Jun 18, 2008)

Double-A said:


> Once you piss a plumber off, you can't unpiss him.


:laughing: Truer words have never been spoken.


I have lunch pretty often with a sales rep for one of my suppliers. They way he tells it Joe Homeowner pays COD while many of his past "good clients" have been stacking up $150K+ and pulling a disappearing act. Our fellow plumbers are compounding the problem. Even if they do pay, for a lot of these suppliers its coming down to a simple cash flow issue. Even at low volume they're willing to do whatever it takes for every last penny. It ends up, as many of you have already pointed out, a losing situation for all of us.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

But back to the subject a hand. I don't think home chepo you can order special parts like plumbing supply places can. I try to stay away from chepo unless I need lumber or a window or a light fixture on sale for my own home. 

It used to be nice walking into the supply house and talk shop with the other guys. Now you walk in on free hot dog day and Jo HO is sitting there eating all the hot dogs trying his best to explain he needs a Symmons TA-10. What's the world coming to?


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

NickTex said:


> :laughing: Truer words have never been spoken.
> 
> 
> I have lunch pretty often with a sales rep for one of my suppliers. They way he tells it Joe Homeowner pays COD while many of his past "good clients" have been stacking up $150K+ and pulling a disappearing act. Our fellow plumbers are compounding the problem. Even if they do pay, for a lot of these suppliers its coming down to a simple cash flow issue. Even at low volume they're willing to do whatever it takes for every last penny. It ends up, as many of you have already pointed out, a losing situation for all of us.


 I do have to agree with you when times are bad companies do have to stay in business. I may have to tow a hot dog cart with me on jobs.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Protech said:


> ever watch ed the plumber? That one can be a hoot.


I watched that Master baiter, i mean plumber, install a waterheater one time. I about fell off the couch laughing at that dumb shiot.:no:


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I remember over 25 yrs ago in Chicago the plumbing showroom was the start of tide turning to sell to off the street clients. Gerber supply on Milwawkee started one and many followed suit. Community plmg supply on Lincoln ave. Correct me if I be wrong but that seemed to be the start of the mess. There is some payback tho. The counters are being pestered by the ho.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I saw the plumber from "ask this old house" try to put a china cap on and he couldn't get to snap so he just left it loose. He put the plastic washer it snaps on, upside down.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I watched an episode of "This old House" where they wanted to ensure the sewer was in good shape. But they couldn't find a clean out anywhere. So the guy took a camera system and went on the roof. As his helper was pushing it in he had the helper stop at a joint with a single root hanging down. I mean my pinkie finger was bigger. The plumber told them they can not push it in any further at risk of getting his camera stuck in the line. Then said the house needs a clean out to properly clear the line. They picked 3 feet in front of the house to dig and after two shovel full of dirt they hit the clean out that was installed when the home was built. 

I just laughed my ass off at the fact they where scamming "This old House" about not able to televise the rest of the sewer due to a root that was no bigger than the tail of a mouse.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

DIY = Ding a ling Installed it Yesterday. 
Can you fix it today?

DIY= Did It Y? Because I was to cheap to pay the plumber


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

NickTex said:


> :laughing: Truer words have never been spoken.
> 
> 
> I have lunch pretty often with a sales rep for one of my suppliers. They way he tells it Joe Homeowner pays COD while many of his past "good clients" have been stacking up $150K+ and pulling a disappearing act. Our fellow plumbers are compounding the problem. Even if they do pay, for a lot of these suppliers its coming down to a simple cash flow issue. Even at low volume they're willing to do whatever it takes for every last penny. It ends up, as many of you have already pointed out, a losing situation for all of us.


All that is needed is a firmer hand in the accounting department. Collections is part of any business that extends credit. The trick there is to get the sales force out to see the culprit and assess how much business they are actually doing. If they are a long standing customer with a good record, cut down the limit, put them on tighter terms and help them get on their feet.

If not, cut them off, exercise your lien rights as a supplier, file credit complaints, charge your interest, take them to court, etc.

Its accounting, not rocket science. You control your loses and build them into your selling price. The customer pays for everything.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Did you see the episode when Riley had his hand bandaged up? he cut it with a power saw. And he is Bob's leading man. I would not have told tv land that and make a laughing stock out of MYSELF!


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ha. no i didnt see that one. I'm watching ask this old house right now and he's rebuilding a tank.


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## MickW55 (May 14, 2009)

John Craig said:


> I started in the plumbing field over 30 years ago. At the time wholesale suppliers sold only to licensed contractors . The supplier loyalty to the contractors really gave us a huge advantage in pricing and specialty items, Now days all the wholesalers cater to anyone and everyone. Handymen,Maintenance departments and homeowners. Yes our pricing is better but in the end our profits are smaller due to fact we now have a ceiling of what we can charge the customer.
> I believe this practice is industry specific to plumbing. The HVAC and Electrical Suppliers in my area sell to contractors only.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> ...


I know it will be no consolation to you, but I run a Plumbing & Heating Wholesaler business in the UK and we will only sell to the trade.

We used to be just like every other merchant until about 6 years ago when we decided to stop selling to Joe Public. It was a brave decision at the time, but it has definitely worked well for us and the trade respect us for it, although some think I am mad to turn business away.

It is just not right that the public should be able to buy at the same price as a tradesman and after 30 years in business I was at last brave enough to stick by my principles.

I believe that we are unique in UK by truly kicking the public out of our trade counters.


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## brad7596 (Nov 1, 2008)

i find it offensive when customers get quotes from plumbing suppliers and they get better pricing then i do with my trade discount and continued loyalty. well ive changed my buying patterns and now they are ringing me asking me to come back and they will fix it. my thinking is you sold out my loyalty and good will for a one off sale and someone is giving better service. its an easy decision!


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

This is why I never buy form Home Depot or Lowes. They make a big deal out of thier contractor service which is the same service, and the same price they give everybody. The "contractors" credit card is joke.


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## jeffc (Jul 8, 2008)

*Redwood for President*



Redwood said:


> I have the bailout plan that would have worked much better than throwing billions of dollars of money to those that have aready demonstrated an inability to handle money...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Redwood you have my vote:thumbup:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

The national plumbing wholesalers don't want will call and counter orders. This means having knowledgeable people who expect to get paid a decent wage. They want orders thru the internet, picked by 8 buck an hour chimps, and delivered by a 10 buck an hour chimp. Fewer and fewer houses stock repair parts, they want you to buy new. Supply houses don't care about quality, it's all about the price, they aren't the ones having to try and fix ****ty fixtures. It's going downhill for us.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I really dont worry about some homeowner or handyman taking any of my business. They make more work for you. Its just alittle delay in between when they repair it and when it fails. Most things at the home center is junk as far as repair goes. I cant count the number of times a homeowner has cost themselves double or triple by trying to do it themselves. I laugh and welcome all to tear their plumbing up!!! When they finally give up and call me they usually understand why we charge what we charge.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Hmm, Master? Please follow the link and post an intro. We really respond well to them.
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

brad7596 said:


> i find it offensive when customers get quotes from plumbing suppliers and they get better pricing then i do with my trade discount and continued loyalty. well ive changed my buying patterns and now they are ringing me asking me to come back and they will fix it. my thinking is you sold out my loyalty and good will for a one off sale and someone is giving better service. its an easy decision!


I lost a huge fixture sale that way. Ironically, 5 years later my shop is literally right next door this supplier. I do enjoy letting their sales rep know why I drive across town to spend my hard earned dollars with their competitor instead of them whenever he stops by the shop.

One other point guys and gals. Lets not discount the role that some plumbers share in this problem. When plumbers quit using the supply house as frequently and start shopping in the big box stores to save a few bucks, the supply house has to start looking at what they need to do to try and survive today. I refuse to spend any money at the cheapo depot for a couple of reasons but the main reason is they are in direct competition with me.

Just my $0.2


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I would post how I make money when a customer goes to a supply house that i suggest to them. But, dont want to make it public for HOs to read, so PM me for details if you wanna know.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

This is a little off subject, but just this morning met with a HO and contractor about a bath remodel. I ask the HO if they had decieded on fixtures and he says yea the desinger helped them pick them out and they're in the garage. So, I let him know that I have no problem installing the fixtures, but I can't warranty them should something goes wrong. HO says " no problem the designer would warranty them" I say "Yep, if that faucet should sh** the bed she'll get a new one, but who's paying the plumber to put it in?"
It was nice seeing the blank look on his face trying to figure out if it was such a good idea to let the designer get his fixtures.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

A homeowner ask me if I would install his fixtures. I replied,"Do you take your own steak to the steakhouse for them to cook?"


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