# Carpenters as plumbers?



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Had to go out on a call today because of a toilet that moves. Got there and found the PVC flange was broke, so I fixed it, installed the toilet. Turn the water on and the tank filled and started overflowing. So with the HO standing there I reach in and adjust the fill valve float. She said that the carpenter who was working on her house installed the toilet and said thats what they are supposed to do. I asked her how long ago he installed it and she said about 6 months ago! I told her no, thats not what they are supposed to do. She had said her other 2 were doing the same thing. Upon examining the others, they too needed adjustment. She then told me that she had to turn the water heater up wide open so the water on the second floor shower would be hot. She said a "plumber" told her that the water was not getting hot upstairs because it had so far to travel. A quick adjustment and the temp was fine! Amazing! That just goes to show that carpenters are not plumbers, and a plumbing company wont always send out a plumber:blink:


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Almost every carpenter/tile/floor guy thinks they can plumb because they pull toilets to redo a floor and then reinstall them. I don't pretend to know their trade, but it pisses me off that they claim to know mine.


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

jjbex said:


> Almost every carpenter/tile/floor guy thinks they can plumb because they pull toilets to redo a floor and then reinstall them. I don't pretend to know their trade, but it pisses me off that they claim to know mine.


I know what you mean. I was doing some work on a old recently updated apartment building. Floor man had to pull the toliet to lay his floor. Broke the brass flange off and stuck a PVC one inside the lead arm... yeah it leaked. Asked him about it and he told me he never pulled the toliet.


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

we have contractors laying pvc waterlines now, and they don't use primer. Went to pull the temporary off to connect the house, and the pvc 90 just blew right off when we dug it up. :laughing::no:

They are also really sloppy with their glue. Makes me cringe when I see them tapping into our lines. :blink:


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Not using primer with glue is like trying to solder with no flux....


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> Not using primer with glue is like trying to solder with no flux....


kinda like trying to frame a house with no nails? :laughing:


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Or sticking it together with Gorilla Glue


----------



## threaderman (Jun 17, 2008)

When will you guys ever learn.Don't you know that plumbing is easy?Just ask anyone.:blink:


----------



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Had a call from a guy about 3 years ago. Had water coming into the basement behind the paneling. I was thinking ground water. After I removed a section of panel I noticed the block wall was wet, but it did not look right. It was wet all the way up above grade!
I noticed a toilet above and asked him to flush it. When he did there was water to the max! Pulled the toilet and found that the people who laid the tile had pulled the toilet, installed cement board, laid tile, then installed a wax ring, re set toilet, but the height from the flange to the top of floor kept the toilet from contacting the ring! The ring was un touched! So when the toilet was flushed all the water had been running downstairs. These floor people were from New York Carpet World. A reputable company before they went out of business.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I worked on a job with a plumber one time that poured purple primer in his cement to make it look like he used both.:no:


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> I worked on a job with a plumber one time that poured purple primer in his cement to make it look like he used both.:no:


We had a traveller from Florida at one shop I worked at that would dump a gallon of purple primer in a bucket and throw the whole fitting in the bucket and fish it back. What mess, that guy had purple everywhere.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> We had a traveller from Florida at one shop I worked at that would dump a gallon of purple primer in a bucket and throw the whole fitting in the bucket and fish it back. What mess, that guy had purple everywhere.


 
Wow. Hopefully the key word in your paragraph was "HAD". It would be kinda funny to see the looks on faces when this happened the first and hopefully only time.


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*In my state, you pay a fee to get registered as a home remodeler and you're a "GC".*
*To be a plumber you do a five year apprenticeship and pass a 4 hour test...same with electrical.*


*The guy that pays the "contractor" fee then bids jobs at a price he seems to think is a good price based on his "proven" track record of experience. *
*Harry the happy homeowner likes the really low price, because he knows for a fact that all trades are rip-offs and take your money for little work.*

*Harry's a shrewd & wise consumer.*

*The "contractor" then has 500 plumbers & electricians bid the job till he gets the "right" price.*

*Sounds like a good system to me, you guys?*


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> We had a traveller from Florida at one shop I worked at that would dump a gallon of purple primer in a bucket and throw the whole fitting in the bucket and fish it back. What mess, that guy had purple everywhere.


 :laughing::laughing:

*Dontcha wish ya didn't have to use that crap?*


----------



## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *In my state, you pay a fee to get registered as a home remodeler and you're a "GC".*
> *To be a plumber you do a five year apprenticeship and pass a 4 hour test...same with electrical.*
> 
> 
> ...


You just described perfectly why I have NEVER worked for a GC EVER. Thats a big reason why I decided to focus on the service end of the business long ago.


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

service guy said:


> You just described perfectly why I have NEVER worked for a GC EVER. Thats a big reason why I decided to focus on the service end of the business long ago.


*I won't go as far as to say all GC's are inadequate, but Holmes definitely has some great points when he talks about them.*

*I have worked for some VERY high end GC's working for older established shops, but these guys take years to meet & establish good working relationships with.*

*In time I have found two that are ok.*

*One guy that is older and semi-retired. who could teach me things about my trade ..I keep trying to get him to bid jobs, but he's too booked with his own stuff and he has cut down his hours, prefers to stick with small odd jobs now in his twilight...:furious:*

*Another guy that is at least honest with me when he doesn't know something, though aggravating at times when he can't figure out certain things without 15 calls in a day, I at least respect the fact that he's is honest and doesn't powertrip.*

*Lightbulb moment...I should introduce the two....*


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> *Dontcha wish ya didn't have to use that crap?*



I don't really mind using purple primer, but we also rarely do a job where we can use PVC. I'm doing one now, sorta, it's a job that we have been doing off and on for three years now.


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> I don't really mind using purple primer, but we also rarely do a job where we can use PVC. I'm doing one now, sorta, it's a job that we have been doing off and on for three years now.


*Speaking of which....we're still waiting on the pics.*
*Should be very interesting to see how it goes in lieu of your usual work.*

*Funny note, on the transition from commercial to residential I found it odd how a mistake in PVC can't be redone like CI where you can just loosen the clamps and undo or rotate the fitting.*


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Speaking of which....we're still waiting on the pics.*
> *Should be very interesting to see how it goes in lieu of your usual work.*
> 
> *Funny note, on the transition from commercial to residential I found it odd how a mistake in PVC can't be redone like CI where you can just loosen the clamps and undo or rotate the fitting.*


If I make a mistake on CI I have to get the torch and the T-6 tip to melt the lead, we don't do No Hub.


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> If I make a mistake on CI I have to get the torch and the T-6 tip to melt the lead, we don't do No Hub.


*Aaaahhh...we do above ground here with clamps, but lead/oakum is an option.*

*Either way, PVC or CI, your screwed.*


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Speaking of which....we're still waiting on the pics.*
> *Should be very interesting to see how it goes in lieu of your usual work.*
> 
> *Funny note, on the transition from commercial to residential I found it odd how a mistake in PVC can't be redone like CI where you can just loosen the clamps and undo or rotate the fitting.*


I have seen ferncos on new builds because of this situation.... It was hard to explain to the HO why their new sewer main would have two ferncos on it when it had just been laid...:laughing:


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> I have seen ferncos on new builds because of this situation.... It was hard to explain to the HO why their new sewer main would have two ferncos on it when it had just been laid...:laughing:


*We use the term "Fernco" to refer to rubber with no shield.*
*They're illegal on any plumbing.*

*We are allowed to use the shielded couplings undergraound provided they're 4-band and we have to use supports on either side that run through the poured slab.*
*It's just easier to go with mechanical gaskets or lead/oakum in most cases.*


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Ferncos can fly down here... In the dirt also. We call the shielded couplings a band-aid. Mechanical gaskets are tie-seals and I just love hubbing them up!!


----------



## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Here the inspectors make us fill our DWV systems with water until it comes out the roof vent. Try getting away with doing that in a 3 story building with 10 baths without using primer. It's something else when one of the fittings in the basement lets go.


----------



## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Once upon a time my brand new test ball sprung a slow leak. Unfortunately it was in the closet riser in the basement of a 2 story house. Even more unfortunately, the stacks were full of water, waiting for the inspector. 

Worst of all, the homeowner's belongings were all stored in the basement until the house got finished. I was in the basement when it happened.

Have you ever seen a 3" stream of water shoot 10' straight up and hit the ceiling? I have.

My day sucked.


----------



## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Have you ever seen a 3" stream of water shoot 10' straight up and hit the ceiling? I have.
> 
> My day sucked.


I've wound up getting soaked plenty of times by plugs shooting out or no hub couplings that weren't made up all the way.
My favorite was a 4" cap blew off a line in a three story building that had 14 toilets, 14 showers, and 30 sinks on it. Their must have been a few hundred gallons of water in the system. It happened in a basement hallway while I was looking down the stairs. I just saw a wave go by. It was pretty funny to watch but it sucks for the guy who was standing under the line, he got knocked down and soaked.

One thing I've learned is test balls are worthless. If they don't leak they will leak in short order. I use those expanding plugs with the wing nut whenever possible.


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Marlin said:


> One thing I've learned is test balls are worthless. If they don't leak they will leak in short order. I use those expanding plugs with the wing nut whenever possible.


We have the same set up but it has a relief on the top so you can ease the pressure off, so you dont deflate and run! I have seen a few guys get their fingers caught up in the chains of test balls and it aint pretty.....


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*I use the plugs that have a test ball built on.*

*One time, I had just tested a house main, left the test ball in after deflating it after inspection.*

*Started running water in the first floor tub to clean it and ran around picking up my tools & stock while it filled.*

*After a while I hear a loud POP, then a loud sizzling sound.*

*The sound was unmistakable, electric water heater.*

*Ran down stairs to the basement like a maniac to find Niagara falls pouring over the heater, I'd left off the covers to adjust temps earlier and the water went straight to the worst possible place it could.*

*The deflated test ball slowed the drainage just enough to allow the tub to overflow, I got lucky, the element had shorted and it was an easy fix, no water damage, rough basement.*


----------

