# Heading out to put in a home depot shower faucet



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I'll be back in about 3-4 hours.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

..........:blink:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Not bad on the creativity scale. 

Not so good for the code. 

Is this a personal invention you'll be marketing soon? :laughing:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey... I'm using a homey 5 gal bucket for showering up at Minnesota cabin. Heated by wood burning stove and then haul it upstair to pour into the bucket.. make sure the 'shower' valve is closed on the hose.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Does Gatorade come out?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

89plumbum said:


> Does Gatorade come out?


 Ill take one if dispenses beer!:thumbup:


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Indie said:


> Not bad on the creativity scale.
> 
> Not so good for the code.
> 
> Is this a personal invention you'll be marketing soon? :laughing:


Looks good for code to me...note the large airgap on top :thumbup:

I suppose an inspector might want a 14" riser clamp and anchored to the rafters, but hey!...*shrugs*...it's residential.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

So this situation was caused by one of two things.

1- the contractor did not pay the plumber to finish. or....

2- the homeowners shower arm broke and he can no longer afford a plumber to fix it right or pay to have the tile broken or drywall cut to fix it.

either way it has to do with $$$


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*4 hours later*


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Nice hole!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Another reason why I hate Delta crap faucet, those pencil sized soft tubings soldered between bodies. I always replaced them with Moentrol.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Another reason why I hate Delta crap faucet, those pencil sized soft tubings soldered between bodies. I always replaced them with Moentrol.


 Good call !:thumbup:


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

how do you solder those fip with out burning the teflone or pipe dope


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

revenge said:


> how do you solder those fip with out burning the teflone or pipe dope


 
I don't. I solder those FIP's right to the valve. Absolutely no reason to tape/dope because heat sink will wipe out that connection instantly.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Another reason why I hate Delta crap faucet, those pencil sized soft tubings soldered between bodies. I always replaced them with Moentrol.


 
The R10000 valve body solved that problem. 

If anyone is to blame, it's the new construction plumber who didn't put grease on the bonnet nut so the unsuspecting next person with their hands on the valve doesn't destroy it. 


Those valves with the 3 copper tubes can last upwards of 50+ years if the bonnet nuts are greased. There's not a Delta faucet installed with my name attached to it that doesn't have grease on the bonnet nut. 

WHY? 

Because I care.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Another reason why I hate Delta crap faucet, those pencil sized soft tubings soldered between bodies. I always replaced them with Moentrol.


That's what the homeowner gets for trying to fix it themselves. You can only put so much torque on that bonnet. I've Dremeled tons of those nuts off.




DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I don't. I solder those FIP's right to the valve. Absolutely no reason to tape/dope because heat sink will wipe out that connection instantly.


Why would you even use female adapters? I solder all 4 connections direct.




DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The R10000 valve body solved that problem.
> 
> If anyone is to blame,* it's the new construction plumber who didn't put grease on the bonnet nut so the unsuspecting next person with their hands on the valve doesn't destroy it. *
> 
> ...


Do you honestly think the new con. plumber is gonna grease a bonnet nut on a new faucet from the factory? Besides, that design frustrated alot of homeowners and hopefully they learned their lesson.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

i solder them on to


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The R10000 valve body solved that problem.
> 
> If anyone is to blame, it's the new construction plumber who didn't put grease on the bonnet nut so the unsuspecting next person with their hands on the valve doesn't destroy it.
> 
> ...



U have a point there, but why BLAME the new construction plumbers where the blame goes to the Manufactor(sp).. they are the one putting the faucet together and SHOULD be the one putting the grease on the thread.

Same old, same old.. growing up in plumbing shop, seen those WB boiler d
I'm also another plumber that grease all bonnet nuts ( Sexauer can) and lube every supply shut offs with silicone grease..


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> U have a point there, but why BLAME the new construction plumbers where the blame goes to the Manufactor(sp).. they are the one putting the faucet together and SHOULD be the one putting the grease on the thread.
> 
> Same old, same old.. growing up in plumbing shop, seen those WB boiler d
> I'm also another plumber that grease all bonnet nuts ( Sexauer can) and lube every supply shut offs with silicone grease..


Sorry, my thumb got ahead of me..
Those WB boiler drain as well other bonnet nut type valves would have grease on the faucet washer, not the stem... who's to blame here???


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Titletownplumbr said:


> That's what the homeowner gets for trying to fix it themselves. You can only put so much torque on that bonnet. I've Dremeled tons of those nuts off.
> 
> Why would you even use female adapters? I solder all 4 connections direct.
> 
> Do you honestly think the new con. plumber is gonna grease a bonnet nut on a new faucet from the factory? Besides, that design frustrated alot of homeowners and hopefully they learned their lesson.


He used those female adt as a pipie extender... otherwise the the supply would be too short and faucet would be out of whack and stressed..


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## Pac Rim Plumber (Jun 23, 2010)

Dunbar,

Can you or someone else provide pictures of a soldered IP connection, I have not seen one completed before. I have heard of brazing a brass connection before but cannot recall reason for this. Looks like will be sweating some test fittings in the garage.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Iv never done it ether. But it should work great like socks on a kitten!! I've glued threaded connections when in a bind!!!


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I always cut the brass sockets off from the existing valve body, then unsweat to have the most copper to work with in the wall.

90% of the time I'm replacing with Moen Positemps. The new Delta's are better than the previous design. I'd still rather provide a contractor grade valve than try to sweat ip connections.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Titletownplumbr said:


> That's what the homeowner gets for trying to fix it themselves. You can only put so much torque on that bonnet. I've Dremeled tons of those nuts off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
In all my years as a plumber, I've never had to dremel a bonnet nut off. Every one of them I can get off of there with some finesse.

The FIP idea is when you know you have to cut off the pipe to clean the ends, but you don't have enough space to short piece/add a coupling into the equation. 

It is a true copper to brass connection, those cut threads are going to take solder/follow capillary action just the same as a socket joint. 

I do this also for the brass threaded piece on PRVs on the union side, that way overtightening doesn't disturb that connection. 

Delta made that R10000 valve body to make sure that it will last a 40 year span with the luxury of always changing trim kits so you can renew the look without major effort. They know what they are doing on this valve because the "fix" with this valve is going to be a far longer lasting than the 600 series or the previous monitor series type valves.


*The new construction plumber had to remove the cartridge before jigging up his cut pipe in the valve before setting that valve in new construction. *

*They had an obligation to put grease on that bonnet nut knowing it's a connection that has to be removed in the future to service the valve.*

Knowing that they most likely will "not" be the ones coming back, and that they know that putting grease on that nut is more times times 100 homes in a subdivision, 

why would they possibly care about the next guy. They don't, whether the plumber or the homeowner. I've never sabotaged a plumbing system to keep the homeowner from working on it, *ever*.




rjbphd said:


> U have a point there, but why BLAME the new construction plumbers where the blame goes to the Manufactor(sp).. they are the one putting the faucet together and SHOULD be the one putting the grease on the thread.
> 
> Same old, same old.. growing up in plumbing shop, seen those WB boiler d
> I'm also another plumber that grease all bonnet nuts ( Sexauer can) and lube every supply shut offs with silicone grease..


Why does moen always send a blister pack of silicone grease when they could do it themselves? 

I've got an answer to the riddle why manufactures may not do it... and that's because the possibility of dirt getting involved into the equation when a greasy sticky surface exists from the go. Sometimes silicone grease is very hard to get off of the finish of a faucet, like brushed nickel being the worst.

I'm using a small container of that grease, lasts about 3 weeks. I just found a company that makes the product in larger quantities to save on costs. 



rjbphd said:


> He used those female adt as a pipie extender... otherwise the the supply would be too short and faucet would be out of whack and stressed..


Correct... and using a short piece and a coupling is just another connection to add into the equation (up to 4) when I know an FIP works perfect most times. 
The R10000 is a larger valve... most times you can cut the old valve off at the body, unsweat the former brass sockets off and trim accordingly, use no fips in the equation. I prefer to do pipe only into the valve, soldered threaded connections as the path least used. 



Pac Rim Plumber said:


> Dunbar,
> 
> Can you or someone else provide pictures of a soldered IP connection, I have not seen one completed before. I have heard of brazing a brass connection before but cannot recall reason for this. Looks like will be sweating some test fittings in the garage.


It will take me awhile to find one but I'll post it on this thread someday. I have about 30,000 pictures of my plumbing work. What sucks is the pictures are all new to the world wide web but to me I've seen it thousands of times... bored with it all.


Brazing is not required. Just make sure both components are clean, use flux, you'll have to move your heat around unless you've already heated up one of the other 3 connections. That chunk of brass retains a lot of heat so by the time you get two sides of the four soldered in, use your torch sparingly for the next two as there isn't much needed at that point. 

As soon as I'm done soldering, whether the customer is watching or not, I have a bottle of water nearby to start spraying into the wall and the recent soldering to slowly bring the temperature down without shocking the solder joints.

A rag just won't get everywhere a spray will, and I want to get the inside of that wall wet. I always take my iPhone and set it to camera view with light, do a short video inside the wall before ever striking a flame inside that wall. 

I want to make sure there's no staircase webs in that cavity that can catch fire and trail to the ceiling. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

JK949 said:


> I always cut the brass sockets off from the existing valve body, then unsweat to have the most copper to work with in the wall.
> 
> 90% of the time I'm replacing with Moen Positemps. The new Delta's are better than the previous design. I'd still rather provide a contractor grade valve than try to sweat ip connections.


 

I just wrote that same method above... avoiding a threaded connection altogether. 

The R10000 has the universal threaded/sweat option on the valve.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Nice job ....

has the house burned down yet?? or will you see it 
on the local tv morning news...:laughing:

I carry a real good spray bottle to really hose 
that inside wall down...shoots out an intence spray
like a needle about 10 feet 

The home owners always seem to get a little nervous when you start that acetylene torch up and start soldering in the wall


that looks like about a 700 dollar repair to me....especially if it was done after hours..


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I could never say, "I've soldered 100's of these inside a wall and never caught a house on fire" because it could happen to the very next one I do. (knock on wood to prevent that) 

The use of the iPhone taking a quick video is a sure bet, something I've never been able to do before. I can remove anything in my way, like kraft paper insulation, cobwebs, or even better, 

finding that insulation from years ago that's basically brown newspaper... that stuff goes up like a flaming inferno when it ignites.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I want to make sure there's no staircase webs in that cavity that can catch fire and trail to the ceiling. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.[/QUOTE]

I can't believe after all these existing shower valve replacements, you haved showed us, & all the little tricks, that require finesse, that you don't have the one tool that would make it easy, & no worry about fire.

Electric solder gun!


 I've done lots of these, as I know alot of us have, that have a 2x4 in the hole, or wood support. And in a 1930 or so house, it don't take much to start a fire. I"ve said it before & I'll say it again, I can't believe every plumber doesn't own an electric solder gun.:confused1:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*I see! I see!*





 


That guy uses his finger to spread the flux too. :thumbsup:



$200+tax for the 'pro' model of that soldering iron. 


I can see that working, but I would have to build something to put that gun down without melting anything that shouldn't. I guess I could do the same as my torch, tip down into the bucket of fittings.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

This is the one I have. Had it for atleast 10yrs, could be 15yrs, heck time goes so fast, I don't remember exactly. Replace tips about every 3 to 5 yrs, depending on amount of use.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/RT175-Soldering-Gun/EN/index.htm


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Don The Plumber said:


> This is the one I have. Had it for atleast 10yrs, could be 15yrs, heck time goes so fast, I don't remember exactly. Replace tips about every 3 to 5 yrs, depending on amount of use.
> 
> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/RT175-Soldering-Gun/EN/index.htm


 

 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...T-175+Soldering+Gun&_sacat=See-All-Categories


If they cost that much, there's probably no way that $200 model is worth the purchase, no matter the video or not. 

That ridgid looks far more durable/heavier but damn, that's a ton of money for 4 solder joints in a wall.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I could never say, "I've soldered 100's of these inside a wall and never caught a house on fire" because it could happen to the very next one I do. (knock on wood to prevent that)
> 
> The use of the iPhone taking a quick video is a sure bet, something I've never been able to do before. I can remove anything in my way, like kraft paper insulation, cobwebs, or even better,
> 
> finding that insulation from years ago that's basically brown newspaper... that stuff goes up like a flaming inferno when it ignites.


I have a ridgid solder iron works well up to 1 1/4 copper. Its out of style now with propress and other fittings. But damn it heats the backside of fittings and the entire surface perfectly. The carbon tips are getting harder to find though! It cost is $ 500 for the iron, tips are as cheap as carbon... but carry backups !:thumbup:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Why do you want to take the excitement out of your work with an electric soldering gun??

Electric soldering guns are for pussies:laughing::thumbup:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> Why do you want to take the excitement out of your work with an electric soldering gun??
> 
> Electric soldering guns are for pussies:laughing::thumbup:


I don't have and never used one, so I'm not a pussy.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...T-175+Soldering+Gun&_sacat=See-All-Categories
> 
> 
> If they cost that much, there's probably no way that $200 model is worth the purchase, no matter the video or not.
> ...


Once you own one, you will realize that you will use it alot more often. If it is even close to flammable material, I break out the electric solder gun.Why risk anything at this stage of the game. I like this one, cuz it is all in one case. Mine still looks like it did, the day I bought it.

Used mine just day before yesterday while running a 1" copper line for a lawn sprinkler. Basement was finished off, & had to solder a couple of 90's in close quarters, up in joist space. One spot had a whole bunch of cable wires going everywhere, so I just use the solder gun there too, rather than risk heating up, & damaging any cables.:yes:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> Why do you want to take the excitement out of your work with an electric soldering gun??
> 
> Electric soldering guns are for pussies:laughing::thumbup:













Meow!


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

JK949 said:


> *I always cut the brass sockets off from the existing valve body, then unsweat to have the most copper to work with in the wall.*
> 
> 90% of the time I'm replacing with Moen Positemps. The new Delta's are better than the previous design. I'd still rather provide a contractor grade valve than try to sweat ip connections.


 
That's the way I do it.




DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> In all my years as a plumber,* I've never had to dremel a bonnet nut off. Every one of them I can get off of there with some finesse.*
> 
> The FIP idea is when you know you have to cut off the pipe to clean the ends, but you don't have enough space to short piece/add a coupling into the equation.
> 
> ...


I don't believe that for one minute, the time that it takes you to finesse that nut off I can have it off with a Dremel in no time at all.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> I don't have and never used one, so I'm not a pussy.


Maybe you're a pussy for another reason. :JJ


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

pilot light said:


> I have a ridgid solder iron works well up to 1 1/4 copper. Its out of style now with propress and other fittings. But damn it heats the backside of fittings and the entire surface perfectly. The carbon tips are getting harder to find though! It cost is $ 500 for the iron, tips are as cheap as carbon... but carry backups !:thumbup:





Don The Plumber said:


> Once you own one, you will realize that you will use it alot more often. If it is even close to flammable material, I break out the electric solder gun.Why risk anything at this stage of the game. I like this one, cuz it is all in one case. Mine still looks like it did, the day I bought it.
> 
> Used mine just day before yesterday while running a 1" copper line for a lawn sprinkler. Basement was finished off, & had to solder a couple of 90's in close quarters, up in joist space. One spot had a whole bunch of cable wires going everywhere, so I just use the solder gun there too, rather than risk heating up, & damaging any cables.:yes:


 
Now you all got me interested in the design, but I'd most likely go "all" and just use a soldering gun only at that point, get away from the numerous mc tank refills, the carrying of the tank, worrying about flame in the wall.



Titletownplumbr said:


> That's the way I do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
You missed the point of my statement.


Why should I care about time when I'm a time and materials plumber. Of course, I flat rate those cartridge replacements as well. 

If you have strong hands, you take the pliers at the 3 and 9 hands of the clock, squeeze, then the 12 and 6 hands of the clock, squeeze. 

You'll oval it slightly on the first squeeze, second straightens it back, breaks the calcium in the threads every time and will spin off. 

If you don't want to muscle the valve then just take a torch and heat it up some, the front end of the cartridge will melt a little, but the calcium will break loose once again.

Tightening the bonnet nut slightly before reversing off works well.


But hey, I just got into plumbing yesterday.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Now you all got me interested in the design, but I'd most likely go "all" and just use a soldering gun only at that point, get away from the numerous mc tank refills, the carrying of the tank, worrying about flame in the wall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You mentioned in a prior post how you're a plumber that cares in regards to greasing Delta bonnet nuts. Apparently you don't show much care when it comes to greasing your customers. Do you take time to eat a sandwich on every call if the customer isn't looking?


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Titletownplumbr said:


> You mentioned in a prior post how you're a plumber that cares in regards to greasing Delta bonnet nuts. Apparently you don't show much care when it comes to greasing your customers. Do you take time to eat a sandwich on every call if the customer isn't looking?


Uhmmm...getting a bit personal, aren't we? :whistling2:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Titletownplumbr said:


> You mentioned in a prior post how you're a plumber that cares in regards to greasing Delta bonnet nuts. Apparently you don't show much care when it comes to greasing your customers. Do you take time to eat a sandwich on every call if the customer isn't looking?


 
???? 


Every delta faucet I've rebuilt has a greased bonnet nut, it's original to the faucet after the repair is done. 


I make guys like you with dremel tools look bad when I take the time to do it right. Where's your skills at.


Take the education and run with it, quit gouging your customers buying bonnet nuts making delta wealthy. It's not that hard.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Once you own one, you will realize that you will use it alot more often. If it is even close to flammable material, I break out the electric solder gun.Why risk anything at this stage of the game. I like this one, cuz it is all in one case. Mine still looks like it did, the day I bought it.
> 
> Used mine just day before yesterday while running a 1" copper line for a lawn sprinkler. Basement was finished off, & had to solder a couple of 90's in close quarters, up in joist space. One spot had a whole bunch of cable wires going everywhere, so I just use the solder gun there too, rather than risk heating up, & damaging any cables.:yes:


 Awesome call. I use it only when I have too! I have also used it when I need too and the b tank or map gas are gone. plus you are charging the customers on the use of a speciality tool which is safer and will cut your insurance as well! Also as for being a pussy. If you just ran out of gas at 5 in the morning and cant solder the last joint damn it sucks to be you! Plug it in plug it in and dont come meowing at my door!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Hey Dunbar, I'd love to see you replace this shower valve through the hole in tile, for faucet.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Now you're being ridiculous. That would take two holes in tile.


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

I like the Gatorade jug, it's a nice touch. I've soldered plenty of FIP/MIP joints, works great.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> View attachment 16566
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be back in about 3-4 hours.


 Installed a few yesterday for 500 bucks extremely lucrative!:thumbup:


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