# Externally mounted tankless in freezing temps?



## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm in OK and have a customer that wants a tankless water heater mounted outside. Are there any heaters that are better suited for this than others? I was going to use a Navien but the sales rep said it's not recommended. I think the he was mostly worried about the lines going to and from the unit freezing, which some frostex will take care of. 

What are your thoughts on mounting a tankless outside where temps get below freezing?


Btw, they want it outside because it is a small house and they want more room. The current wh is in the kitchen.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I use to install them all the time insides a metal box that was installed flash with the exterior brick when I was in Texas. Never thought it was a good idea, but seemed to work well. Never installed one just outside, that seems like a bad idea.


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## Catlin987987 (Nov 12, 2010)

I hope its warm where you live


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

The only worse idea I can come up with at this time involves a Badger and a branding iron. :laughing:


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Will said:


> I use to install them all the time insides a metal box that was installed flash with the exterior brick when I was in Texas. Never thought it was a good idea, but seemed to work well. Never installed one just outside, that seems like a bad idea.


Tankless protected to minus 30 below as long as its plugged in.insyslled dozend up north .save on the venting


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

And when he power goes out you have about 15 minutes before all the pipes and exchanger crack


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

heeterman1 said:


> Tankless protected to minus 30 below as long as its plugged in.insyslled dozend up north .save on the venting


Drain it


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

At the uranium mine we spend tons of our time at their in house engineer decided than an outdoor tankless is what they needed granted they have a backup generator on site and a mobile back up generator for their back up generator we installed an outdoor rinnai and have not had one problem the day I fired it up was about 10 below and after three year it still runs like a charm


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

I've installed five Rianni's outside. Three on one house two on another house. They came with a metal outside mounting box that had the vent built in the door. I had a GFI outlet installed inside the box and ran heat trace on the lines inside the box. 
If I remember correctly Rianni's had a deal where they circulate the water around inside the unit when it dips below a certain temp? It's been a while.. might be wrong.


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Rando said:


> I've installed five Rianni's outside. Three on one house two on another house. They came with a metal outside mounting box that had the vent built in the door. I had a GFI outlet installed inside the box and ran heat trace on the lines inside the box.
> If I remember correctly Rianni's had a deal where they circulate the water around inside the unit when it dips below a certain temp? It's been a while.. might be wrong.


Most tankless manufacturs dont
want a GFI they have about 6 sensors in a unit to protect against freeze


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

*tankless*



Green Country said:


> I'm in OK and have a customer that wants a tankless water heater mounted outside. Are there any heaters that are better suited for this than others? I was going to use a Navien but the sales rep said it's not recommended. I think the he was mostly worried about the lines going to and from the unit freezing, which some frostex will take care of.
> 
> What are your thoughts on mounting a tankless outside where temps get below freezing?
> 
> ...


you can use rheem .norwitz rinnia any of these are protected.before anyone knocks the tankless they need to read up.if you lose power you drain the heater.i have done a lot with tankless most on the commercial end i do very little on the residential side.i have built working models tankless and tank type.i give classes at the shop.all this negative wise cracks.im new to the sight but i say whats on mind.so if you dont know.you really should not speak.we can all learn from each other.


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

We do get below freezing, and sometimes below 0, but usually at night and then it warms up during the day. Just leaving a faucet dripping would probably be enough even if the power went out. My biggest fear would be the power going out while you were asleep or not home. 

Is there some sort of alarm available that would remind you if the power goes out and you are at home?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

heeterman1 said:


> you can use rheem .norwitz rinnia any of these are protected.before anyone knocks the tankless they need to read up.if you lose power you drain the heater.i have done a lot with tankless most on the commercial end i do very little on the residential side.i have built working models tankless and tank type.i give classes at the shop.all this negative wise cracks.im new to the sight but i say whats on mind.so if you dont know.you really should not speak.we can all learn from each other.


 
Well, I have done a lot of reading up and while you are correct that as long as there is power the unit should be ok but......if the power goes out at say 2:00pm I seriously doubt that anyone is going to be awake to drain the unit. Also, the water supply to the unit needs to be heat taped which again, when the power goes out so does the heat tape. IOW I stand by my wise cracks and still believe that installing one of these POS units outside is pretty stupid. Then again, installing one anywhere is pretty stupid also but that opinion is derived from someone that has run the numbers.


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

heeterman1 said:


> Most tankless manufacturs dont
> want a GFI they have about 6 sensors in a unit to protect against freeze


Huh? the outlet has to be GFI. And it says right in the installation manual, the exposed lines need to be protected.


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Rando said:


> Huh? the outlet has to be GFI. And it says right in the installation manual, the exposed lines need to be protected.


Rheem wont has refused tech support with a gfi.but i feel if your outside you and pluggrd in not hard wired you need a gfi.i hard wire.to a dedicated circuit


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

heeterman1 said:


> Rheem wont has refused tech support with a gfi.but i feel if your outside you and pluggrd in not hard wired you need a gfi.i hard wire.to a dedicated circuit


 
OK, I was talking about a seperate box just for the heat trace, not the unit power.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

My tankless is installed outside , and I've personally installed many more outside with zero callbacks.

I love the fact that I never run outta hot water like we did with the tank type heater


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Rando said:


> OK, I was talking about a seperate box just for the heat trace, not the unit power.


Sorry i misunderstod,i still think,in the right app its a great heater.they do require flushing yearly is good as far as GFI i have had nusinance calls on tripped gfi


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

I install them outside don't have a problem with it what we try to do is install the plug inside the wall with a gfci. The one on my parents house is installed outside(Houston) haven't had a problem with it. Been installed 4 years


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

Installed this one today 
It's just a pain to install the tnp


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## TDB (Jun 25, 2008)

I would not install one outside where I live. We get to -20 below.

If my customer absolutely had to have it on the side of their house, I'd make them have a room built for it with all the precautions including a freeze alarm that also reports power outages. Then I'd make it clear I'm not going to warranty any cold weather problems and have them sign off on it.

I would assume most jurisdictions with freezing weather would not allow them installed on the outside of a building even if the manufacturer said it could be done. I'd check with the jurisdiction having authority before you did anything else


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

jc-htownplumber said:


> I install them outside don't have a problem with it what we try to do is install the plug inside the wall with a gfci. The one on my parents house is installed outside(Houston) haven't had a problem with it. Been installed 4 years


Nice job


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

jc-htownplumber said:


> Installed this one today
> It's just a pain to install the tnp


That box looks nice. What brand is that heater?


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

Rinnai r94 Lsi propane


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

One thing you can offer your clients is a Uninterruptible Power Supply. (UPS) they make them for computer equipment. Pick the duration they want and when the power goes off it will still be able to protect itself from freezing.


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

That's a good idea. I will suggest that they get one to buy them a little more time.


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