# No print for own house!?



## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

I have done residential for the start of my apprenticeship but all commercial for last 5 years. pleny of boiler and slab work but. would rather get advice from experts with daily experiance. what is the best way to add in floor on my main floor( small only 900sqft) have brand new heil 2 stage works great in old house but want more comfort. just installed new 70 gal a.o 95 eff tank. so plenty of oversize in that tank. what I am looking for is how best to run tubing. i know how to run zones pumps and stats. but what is best way. would like to stay away from staple up if possible. and above floor is fine as long as can put tile over top of. 
any layout ideas appreciated. simply pex application I already have heat loss , pump. and controllers taken care of 
thank you


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## Asparta (Mar 12, 2010)

What you want is probably 4 loops. 250 to 300 feet each. The closer to the same length they all are, the more balanced your system will be. Use J-clips and clip up the line to either side of each joist. Drill all your holes, then pull line through all the way. Go through, and then turn back. On the line that turns back, pull your individual loops. This avoids the need for couplings. You will want to clip these lines up to the joists, leave a 2" air gap, and then use R12 insulation underneath. Use side inlets on your A.O. Smith tank. Run a Grundfos pump on that loop which will go through a plate type heat exchanger. Run second pump on heating side, and don't forget to run make up water to the heating side with a number 30 expansion tank. Don't forget your auto air vents! This setup will give you enough, and then some and will last for years, with very low maintenance costs. Obviously, run water through the lines, with appropriate backflow preventer on the makeup water line.
Hope this helps!


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I agree. ^ 

I like to run a 2 x 3 across the bay, every 3 feet or so, and clip to that, to center the runs. Otherwise, they are real close at the joists, and then you have a 14" gap, untill the next joist. This will even out the radiation. 

It works fine, and saves a ton of money. You do not need all of those fancy aluminum baffles, and what not. 

Make sure to drill your holes large enough to prevent chaffing, and expansion noise. Follow the code as to hole placement (not close to the ends, and centered in the joist depth)


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

Transfer plates made by THERMOFIN. Your oxy barrier pex snaps right in. comes in 4 & 8 ft lengths. They fit in the joist space. 
If you have to have above floor system look to "heat link", they have a reasonable priced system I have installed a few times. My personal choice for avove floor is a pour over. 3/8 or 1/2 oxy pex cliped down to sub floor and over pour to 1-3/8" with gyp crete. Becomes a high mass,sound barrier, tile ready surface.:thumbup:


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## 907plumber (Mar 13, 2010)

Please post pics if you can of this, before and after. Im interested to see:thumbsup:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Wirsbo has a really good booklet, I think they call it Radiant Design and installation.


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

907plumber I am an old fart still trying to figure this tech stuff out. Will try to upload pics if I can figure out how


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Asparta said:


> What you want is probably 4 loops. 250 to 300 feet each. The closer to the same length they all are, the more balanced your system will be. Use J-clips and clip up the line to either side of each joist. Drill all your holes, then pull line through all the way. Go through, and then turn back. On the line that turns back, pull your individual loops. This avoids the need for couplings. You will want to clip these lines up to the joists, leave a 2" air gap, and then use R12 insulation underneath. Use side inlets on your A.O. Smith tank. *Run a Grundfos pump on that loop which will go through a plate type heat exchanger. Run second pump on heating side, and don't forget to run make up water to the heating side with a number 30 expansion tank.* Don't forget your auto air vents! This setup will give you enough, and then some and will last for years, with very low maintenance costs. Obviously, run water through the lines, with appropriate backflow preventer on the makeup water line.
> Hope this helps!


Why would you need a plate heat exchanger? or a 2nd pump and a make up water.

Isn't he doing his heating job off of a hot water tank. If so all he would require is a pump for the heating loop.


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## wundumguy (Apr 3, 2010)

Heat exchanger to keep the non potable water in the heating system separate from the potable water in the hot water heater. Minimum two pumps because the HX isolates the heating loop(s) from the HWT loop.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

wundumguy said:


> Heat exchanger to keep the non potable water in the heating system separate from the potable water in the hot water heater. Minimum two pumps because the HX isolates the heating loop(s) from the HWT loop.


Using a hot water tank it is not neccesary to isolate the heating coming of the hot water tank..... it would be all the same system


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Using a hot water tank it is not neccesary to isolate the heating coming of the hot water tank..... it would be all the same system


 Check the latest stan data Old School. Tanks cannot be used unless a timer is used in conjunction with the circ or a plate exchanger with a 2 circ system. It also allows the use of glycol.:thumbsup:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

njoy plumbing said:


> Check the latest stan data Old School. Tanks cannot be used unless a timer is used in conjunction with the circ or a plate exchanger with a 2 circ system. It also allows the use of glycol.:thumbsup:


If a timer is used it would be so the water would move regardless if the system would not be in the heating months. I get that, so the water does not be come stagnet.

Why would you want to put gycol in a system if you do not have the potential for freezing?


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