# Water Heater Removal - Old Ones



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Over the years and the many times I've forced water heaters up steps, in dangerous fashion to my entire career in a matter of minutes... I've removed water heaters from homes where I should of left them. 

Can't ask the customers for help as you're asking for things to go wrong.

Not all of us have "help" to remove these, but I have no problems removing a water heater that's minimal steps out of a house, or a 3 run stringer. It's when it gets into those heavy ones where you've drained it, sediment sitting in the tank and no way to remove it does it become dangerous.

As many years I've been in this trade, I've racked some serious numbers in how many I've removed, it's in the hundreds. Not one of them have I thought was a good idea when it involved coming out of a basement with a full set of steps. 

I even ask the customer now if the water heater is located in a basement with steps. If they say yes, I'm telling them before I even give a price that we do not remove the old ones, get your neighborhood kids or your sons to do it. 

Last year I had someone play a game with me, I already told them I wasn't touching that old water heater full of sediment, then he asked again to have me take it around a sloping yard. I told him again, "I'm not risking a back injury when I've told you before I arrived that I will not chance it." He ended up doing it himself, even though I supplied the two wheeler and straps to hold it into position.

There's a reason I'm not a total yes man to every question my customers throw at me. It's called experience, wisdom, and self preservation in this business. 

I can be the best plumber in the area, but don't ask me to do unskilled labor that can harm my future earnings in this business. I'm sorry doesn't do anything for a back injury that leaves me without the ability to work.

"Most" of the customers that are demanding I remove these water heaters? Usually have junk laying everywhere, like the world is going to stop with the old one sitting in the basement. 

I've seen countless times where the history of old ones start collecting in the basement, it looks bad, but it really looks bad when it's a walk out basement. 

Dangerous/old rickety steps? Purely understandable. We earn our wages for our skills, not for garbage collecting.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I give the heater to my neighbor so he can scrap it out for money. I was taught to remove the heaters. So, I continue that tradition. Why leave the customer with that problem?


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

"I only remove HOT water heaters"
Is that a setup? Lol


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> "I only remove HOT water heaters"
> Is that a setup? Lol


 
Gotcha... heh:thumbup:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I don't think there is a correct answer to this pole...........:whistling2:


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Not only do I get to remove whatever current relic they having sitting there but on occasion I've had the honor of removing the previous 2 heaters that were left by the last guy.:furious: On once such occasion I slid the new heater down the steps to distribute the weight more evenly because the actual stair treads were cracking under my weight. 
I moved the old heater back in the corner, told the owner to give us a call when they got some decent stairs installed, even gave her the name of a good carpenter, and left. I'll give it a go when at all feasible but in those situations I'm not gonna end up with a busted leg or back because some cheapa#$ can't maintain access to their mechanical area.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I am not looking to bash you Dunbar, but my opinion is the plumbing contractor needs to remove the old heater. To leave it on site is not professional. You wouldn't leave an old toilet or faucet behind, right? Hire some out of work dudes to get it out of there. Or you could probably find a scrap man who will gladly come behind you and take the old heaters away for free. Just my two cents.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

"I only remove HOT water heaters"
Is that a setup? Lol


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Gotcha... heh:thumbup:


I'm learning from you guys everyday! Ha, I like this game!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

We have a couple of guys around here that scrap, and they will come out and get them. I have not called them, cause I am not sure if I can trust them. I could get the homeowner to call next time.

As the King of Water Heaters, I would like to hear what Master Mark does. :yes:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> I am not looking to bash you Dunbar, but my opinion is the plumbing contractor needs to remove the old heater. To leave it on site is not professional. You wouldn't leave an old toilet or faucet behind, right? Hire some out of work dudes to get it out of there. Or you could probably find a scrap man who will gladly come behind you and take the old heaters away for free. Just my two cents.


 
I take criticism well, always. :thumbsup:

As I mentioned, walk out basements I'll pull them. But expecting a plumber to pull 200+ pounds up a set of steps, leaning forward pulling backwards at the same time, it's high risk.

I've lost a couple down steps, refusing to ride down the steps with them, I just let go. I'd rather do damage that way than medical bills galore.


In today's scrap prices, I can see scrap guys still not chasing a single water heater at a home, especially when it is in a basement with no walkout. 

Pulling a water heater ranks pretty high on the injury list of destructive injuries in the plumbing profession.

I've got to ask you directly,

Would you consistently pull water heaters out of basements in dangerous situations (by yourself) just for the benefit of your customers? My customer base is very reasonable, they know that I'm not a young buck anymore and I'm known for my skills, not so much my brawn anymore. 


Remember, you can win the war (daily) but lose the battle (career) very easily in this profession. Look to your plumbing elders and those who became victims by circumstance.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Basements aren't bad.......come on! 

How about getting an ol rust bucket out of an attic on the second floor with 10' ceilings and white carpet, too. All this has to be negotiated on a cheapo attic access stairway with a 200# rating..............:laughing:.

BTW, I remove all heaters.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Basements aren't bad.......come on!
> 
> How about getting an ol rust bucket out of an attic on the second floor with 10' ceilings and white carpet, too. All this has to be negotiated on a cheapo attic access stairway with a 200# rating..............:laughing:.
> 
> BTW, I remove all heaters.


\

Same here

I get to see many of the 10' feet ceilings with white carpet, and of course they are always on the second floor.....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Mr D,

I agree that there a physical limits that we all must live with. But you don't HAVE to be alone on the job. Are there any temp labor agencies in your area? Price the job to be a "complete" service and include the cost to have 1, 2, 5, or even 20 temp laborers assist in the removal of the old unit. Don't sweat the cost. It is not your fault the client has a poorly designed home that doesn't allow easy access to service mechanical equipment. Charge a fair price for what it takes to really complete the job. The laborers will be covered by all the needed liability and worker's compensation insurances through their agency.

OR...cut the heater into pieces to make it more manageable.

Either way, price the job accordingly and provide COMPLETE value. Both of these are safe options for a plumber working by himself.

Leaving the trash for your client to deal with seems like a really bad move.


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## FEDguy (May 19, 2010)

I always remove any of the old equipment that we replace. I add it in my price and I get the scrap value as an added bonus. Happy New Year my brothers!


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Well, I've always had to remove them even when I really really wanted to leave one behind. The boss always factored in removing and hauling away the old one in the price.

I have had to cut one into pieces to get it out of a crawlspace access before. That one was an old State low boy. I have no clue how the plumber who installed it got it in there. It was physically larger than the access door.:001_unsure:

The Rinnai I replaced it with went in smooth though!:thumbsup:


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## jim connolly (Oct 29, 2010)

I sub out a garbage removal guy, he meets me at the house around the time I'm done un-installing the old tank and takes it from there. His fee is built into what I charge my customers.
I could take it away in the truck, but this system has been working out for me. Time wasted driving to and from the recycling center, which is on the outskirts of the city, could be time spent doing a small job and thus making money. Plus, I don't want a back injury.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

We haul them off as well. If a H.O. wants us to remove something where we didn't provide the replacement, it's on a case by case basis and we do charge. I.E. - H.O. supplies new toilet and wants us to take away the old, might tack on $15.-$25. depending on the circumstances.

If there is a danger of getting hurt, can't blame you for not wanting to take a chance though. If your customers are fine with it, then it really doesn't matter what others do.


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## PlumbPowerHouse (Jan 5, 2010)

It's our company policy to remove the old heaters. Only when the customer requests to leave it, we will. We have help also, so it's a little different from your situation. It's professional and well mannered to take the trash from the job.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

As usual, a dunbar poll missing several obvious answers in it.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

jim connolly said:


> ... Time wasted driving to and from the recycling center, which is on the outskirts of the city, could be time spent doing a small job and thus making money.


I haul them away. We don't have many basements around here, so they're almost always fairly easy. I just automatically add a half hour of labor on every tank job to cover it.

My supplier made a deal with a recycling salvage company - the recycler put up a small fenced and gated area at the side of the supplier's yard. Us plumbers dump junk tanks and boilers and other metals in there and whenever it gets full they come with a truck and pick it all up. Works great.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Sketchy situations get a helper on the job. BTW I did a tank change out on New Years Eve on a second story condo. I normally would have had a spotter but the shop was closed. Not sure how I would handle these on a frequent basis if I was a solo act.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

JK949 said:


> Sketchy situations get a helper on the job. BTW I did a tank change out on New Years Eve on a second story condo. I normally would have had a spotter but the shop was closed. *Not sure how I would handle these on a frequent basis if I was a solo act*.


 


That's how it is though, solo act. Customers of mine are very reasonable, and I let them know from the beginning. I won't surprise them at the end and tell them no. 

I definitely don't feel inclined to remove garbage from a home like a water heater when 90% of my water heater replacements already have a new water heater sitting there to install. No fuzzy math in this equation... they supplied a new one, why remove the old one? 

It's case by case, and I sometimes overprice the basement ones just so I'm getting compensated to deal with the steps. 

I'm one of the cleanest plumbers on a job, always leaving the job cleaner than what it was when I arrived... I can accept leaving #200 pound trinkets in the basement if I know the chance of injury is great to remove it. 


That's truly a customer I can afford to lose. As I mention, there are many customers of mine I continue to do work for, to this day where I've left heaters in their home for neighborhood kids to muscle up the steps, still making money.

Just installing the water heater correctly, like so many plumbers fail to do already is why I'm not getting complaints, losing water heater calls when I stipulate the safety measures I'm implementing.

If I start talking about how many plumbers, licensed plumbers do shoddy water heater replacements, you'll see why I have a permanent job in history in anyone's town, including yours.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

I work alone & I remove the old heaters, 90% of the time from a full 

basement, not for the scrap value - just customer service.


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## Nevada Plumber (Jan 3, 2009)

I will dispose of a water heater if the customer is paying me to do so. If they choose to try and save a few bucks, then the water heater stays.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Lots of good ponts. I have removed and reset lots of pita water heaters by myself. But if I know it exceeds my personal capabilities or puts me at risk then no way. I would not feel right about leaving the old one in almost all circumstances. Unless I was hungry and succumbed to a cheap price. 

I would either find someone to remove it at time of install, or cut it in pieces if charging premium service prices. If charging less I would not feel bad as long as they knew in advance.


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## Jiffy (May 24, 2009)

KCplumber said:


> I work alone & I remove the old heaters, 90% of the time from a full
> 
> basement, not for the scrap value - just customer service.


Sam here, 90% are basement installs. Removal is included in price quote. 

Upon arrival if there are unusual circumstances this will be discussed beforehand and an agreement will be reached or I'll pass on the job. Example would be if a heater is surrounded by walls and piping and needs to be dead lifted a couple feet to clear gas water lines in order to remove...I would call a laborer, if I can't get one immediately job is rescheduled. This would constitute and extra cost.

We do the best we can but if we have to cross carpet customer receives notice that we will not be responsible for any leakage...I do carry contractors bags to insert tanks into which are taped, then usually install them into the new heaters box (cut in half) then strap to dolly.

I don't think anyone here would blame you for passing due to unsafe stairs though.

I too give my tanks to a neighbor who scraps. If there is a situation where I can't get a tank out myself he'll come by and help me (this is usually later in the day when he is available).

I guess if the customer is supplying the tank that is a gray area. I do not usually remove trash if I didn't supply the new fixture. If it's a regular customer or a senior or if it looks like it may be a deal breaker I may do it.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

That's the majority of my calls; I always talk the customer into "have the water heater there, it'll save you money." 


I do that because for years I used to be the guy who bought the water heater from the supply house or big box store, realized how much time I was getting sucked into and when I implemented a pickup/haul away charge, disposal fee, I'd sometimes get "We'll we could of picked that up" or "We could of got rid of the water heater ourselves" and now it gets down to price mizing on their end.

I replace water heaters on an hourly because I've replaced water heaters that you look at them, think it's going to be a straight in-out install and it's everything but. 

Gas line rework, flue pipe rework, water lines have to be reworked to get into the top of the tank, tank is taller changing the first directions of the 2" or 3" PVC flue coming out of the tank... the list goes on forever. Given the task takes more than a couple hours, the last thing I'm going to do is already be there with all that time picking the water heater up,

explaining the code infractions with the customer gawking at me with all the upcharges to make the heater code compliant, and now I'm risking the sale with the heater going back to the supply house? (still boxed) 

Otherwise you're double tripping to that home to get posession of that heater. If you inventory a water heater, you're screwing with the "born on" date of that unit with warranties usually abiding by the the manufacture's serial number date, nothing else. 

Even picking up a water heater from a big box store is a lengthy process. They won't let you pull from stock and call it good.. they mark your "sold" heater and it must match that particular one, because 8 times out of 10 the people who sold the unit are not the people you deal with on the day you pick it up.


I'm all about the time factor before the money. I let people know how to save money by having the new one there, let them take care of getting the old one out and my job is to get that hot water back in order. 

Before... I could easily have a half a day invested when I could do 3-4 service calls, been in more than 3 driveways in the same time covering more ground.

It's the most price shopped fixture in plumbing for me, I'd rather let someone else do them and I'll take care of the rest in the house. There's plenty.

Numbers are super close on this opinion poll:


11 people say they pull the heaters, and 9 state they utilize 2 people to remove them. 

Very telling and I'm sure that 9 who voted for 2 people removing water heaters, they are of the 11.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

We always remove them. People around here would'nt even consider someone leaving it. Course, there is an apprentice with me. 

On a side note, guy called yesterday, asked me if I could install a gas dryer that they purchased and had delivered, at his father in laws house. He told me that the delivery guy said he needed a plumber. I knew summin was up. I told him sure, we'll see you tomorrow afternoon. He said great. He asked if we take cash or check. I told him either one is fine. he said great. I said good bye, and I hung up. 

We showed up today, and the flex. appliance connector dissappeared into the paneled wall. We cut it open, and hard piped it to outside the wall. We carried the dryer into the laundry room, Connected it to the gas, repiped the vent to eliminate the plastic one. I asked him where he wanted the old dryer. He said I dunno. I told him we'll carry it out to the curb. Some scrap guy will get it. It'll prolly be gone tomorrow. He said great. We carried it to the curb, I wrote up the bill, handed it to him. 

He wrote the check, and said thanks. 

Another happy customer. New one at that. I wonder who referred me to him.


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## Pipe Art (Sep 11, 2009)

We always remove the old heater. We figure it in the price along with laying down dropcloths through the home (99% of the time the heater is in the basement). Most of the time it's a one man job, but we will call for reinforcements occasionally. I never considered leaving it behind, homeowners typically don't have a means to remove or dispose of them. We load up 20 or so in one of our dump trucks once a month and bring them in for scrap. Also we never install heaters that we didn't sell, that's our policy.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> If I start talking about how many plumbers, licensed plumbers do shoddy water heater replacements, you'll see why I have a permanent job in history in anyone's town, including yours.


Someone might need to buy themselves a new cape this year. :laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I don't hold back on bashing people in my own profession. It's my baseline income every week because someone who plays the game thinks it's okay to screw others. 

But you stick to the unlicensed, you've got the time I don't have to fight that losing battle.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Your forgetting one very easy solution to your problem dunbar. http://www.powermate.info/ Get a stair climbing dolly. You don't have to lift anything the dolly does the work. This is what the supply houses use when its a 100 gallon and has to go up stairs. They work well, and you can provide a complete service to the customer. 

I would never leave a water heater and its 99% basements here. Even a proper appliance dolly works fairly well. If your unwilling/unable to do it by force, get a powered dolly. If you cannot get it up the stairs what's the 80 year old woman who you replaced the heater for going to do about it?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Just installing the water heater correctly, like so many plumbers fail to do already is why I'm not getting complaints, losing water heater calls when I stipulate the safety measures I'm implementing.
> 
> If I start talking about how many plumbers, licensed plumbers do shoddy water heater replacements, you'll see why I have a permanent job in history in anyone's town, including yours.


 
Hooking it up correctly is very important. So is removal IMO. Leaving a water heater is shotty work. :whistling2:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

RW that is an expensive dolly that I have insight on already from another plumber that tells me that it does not work in 'every' situation and you have to be careful on certain steps as it will damage them.

Shotty work doesn't exist under my company name, and I could leave every single water heater I just removed in a house. 

I don't injure myself to be a hero to the customer or on the internet, and that's the bottom line I'm driving in this thread. 

Plus, 

The last 6 installs I've done, one was in a basement. A 30 gallon that fully drained was one I had to pull out, which I was *****ing but I did it. I could of left it there and the guy I installed it for? Been working for him for 7 years. 

He's got people to do the back breaking work, literally.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> ...I don't hold back on bashing people in my own profession...


Fair enough. We are all grown ups here and you started the thread.

Your pole is flawed. Add this option:
_"We always remove the water heater and leave the work area clean because our customer hired a Professional Plumber."_

Knowing how to put a pipe together and install equipment according to code is not enough to qualify you to take on a project. If you discover upon arrival that you do not possess the ability or the desire to complete the whole job, then you should leave the premise immediately and go get jobs you can finish. Not removing the old water heater is like a backhoe operator that won't backfill.

Working by yourself on a big water heater can be a daunting task but certainly not impossible. And it doesn't have to be unsafe either.

Click here>>> Water Heater Lifters-R-Us


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> RW that is an expensive dolly that I have insight on already from another plumber that tells me that it does not work in 'every' situation and you have to be careful on certain steps as it will damage them.
> 
> Shotty work doesn't exist under my company name, and I could leave every single water heater I just removed in a house.
> 
> ...


 
It's mearly an option. You don't have to use the dolly. You could hire temp labor, use a sawzall and cut the thing in half, use a regular appliance dolly or use the power dolly. The only thing that isn't an option for me and my company is leaving it there unless the customer requests it. There are many things you can do to remove the heater WITHOUT posing injury to yourself. 

The way I see it, the only reason I'm justified in charging what I do is because I provide a professional level of service. I'm sure some handy hacks even know how to install a heater correctly in most situations. Lets be honest here, installing a water heater isn't very difficult 95% of the time. The thing that seperates us is professional service ( installing it correctly always) and just as importantly leaving the area as clean or cleaner than you found it. Leaving a rusted tank in the basement isn't very clean.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> ...Lets be honest here, installing a water heater isn't very difficult 95% of the time. The thing that seperates us is professional service ( installing it correctly always) and just as importantly leaving the area as clean or cleaner than you found it. Leaving a rusted tank in the basement isn't very clean.


Yep...so easy a caveman could do it.
http://www.rusticgirls.com/appliances/gas-hot-water-heater-replacing.html

If the customer has to do all the hard parts, why would they hire a plumber for the stuff that everyone tells them is the easy part? Apparantly Dunbar has a lot of clients that are willing but I don't.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> But expecting a plumber to pull 200+ pounds up a set of steps, leaning forward pulling backwards at the same time, it's high risk.



Too bad they don't make sectional water heaters.:jester:

But until then, it's strapped and rolled out on the dolly for me.

and if you'd completely drain your water heaters first, they'd weigh less than "200+ pounds" a residential 50 gallon gas weighs in at 150lbs.

Do you disassemble the old toilets when you take them out, too?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm in the home because I'm trusted, I'm known for ball busting other plumbers for shoddy workmanship and I make sure that I do everything to protect myself (as I repeat myself) to keep in the game till other capital ventures I'm exploring, pan out, and that's the goal.


Hiring a temp service for a 15 minute job isn't cutting it. Nor is buying a $1300.00 power dolly. 

There's times I'm almost treated like a family member by some of my customers so the reality is: leaving a water heater and "saving them money" by telling them it is X dollars to remove, knowing there's 2 football players (sons) in the basement not smoking pot for 5 minutes that can do the job and well. 

As far as toilets...


Rarely do I separate them, but I came up with a great trick. Most if not always I'm installing those AS4's or Cadet 3's and those toilets come in a sturdy one piece cardboard box. 

I take everything out of the box, set that entire toilet coming out right in that box and I can slide it down steps whether or not they are carpeted. My days of using a 2 wheeler trying to move that toilet down a steps is dangerous, won't happen again.


It's awesome when I tell a customer that it's X amount of dollars to remove the old heater and they interrupt and say they'll take care it themselves. 

Do you all think I'd change my methods because someone doesn't like them? Won't happen in this lifetime. Show me my unsatisfied customers. 


You will get older someday and feel the wrath of this profession.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I'm in the home because I'm trusted, I'm known for ball busting other plumbers for shoddy workmanship and I make sure that I do everything to protect myself (as I repeat myself) to keep in the game till other capital ventures I'm exploring, pan out, and that's the goal.
> 
> 
> Hiring a temp service for a 15 minute job isn't cutting it. Nor is buying a $1300.00 power dolly.
> ...


Isn't everyone in Kentucky family, somehow?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Isn't everyone in Kentucky family, somehow?


 

Given how much sex there is, possibly.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

The Devil made me do it..................:whistling2:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

When I read the lengthy rantings of Dunbar I get kinda hungry for something to eat, how about.....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> ...Hiring a temp service for a 15 minute job isn't cutting it...


Please explain why.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> Please explain why.


 
You're failing to adhere to the prior knowledge that I let the customer know ahead of time that I normally will not remove a heavy water heater if I cannot get it to drain properly, or filled with calcium carbonate. 

I tell them if I can get the water heater back to it's original weight, I'll attempt it. Otherwise I'm bedding the statement that I won't promise a removal of the old one if the potential is there for serious harm or injury. 

Right there at that point in time, the customer on the other end of the phone has the right to stop the contract, find someone else that "can" remove that old heater.

Given that 95% of my clientell don't seem to mind with this condition that you've spent 95% of your time trying to say is their concern is failing miserably in this thread. Thought I'd inform you of that since you're running naked outside the business lounge lately, speaking freely. :laughing:

Remember; the priority is "how-fast-can-we-get-that-hot-water-back" and trusting the voice on the other side of the phone. I've got that mastered.

My years of wisdom on water heaters, I can almost dictate which ones will be full of sediment by the zones in the water district, which ones will be problematic.

Customer is not upset when I "attempt" to pull one, it's too heavy and I tell them (as prior notification is crucial) that it's going to require 2 people to remove it, and due to insurance reasons I cannot employ your help or someone at your home to help me in case of of an accident. 

This isn't my first rodeo and you know that hiring strangers for a 15 minute task is not only cost prohibitive but I'd be hard pressed to not be engaging a minimum 4 hour charge for 2 guys. 2 guys because one guy would be me pulling that heater myself with another barely helping, or overhelping which can prove twice as dangerous. Been there done that. The goal is never touch the danger.

So in summary (finally)

Enjoy the opportunity I've given you and others to critique my ability to provide plumbing services for my community without complaint, nor hinderance of the #1 goal, which is getting hot water, install that water heater to code and fix the F99Kups the last plumber provided because he short nosed the job to play the numbers game to be "profitable". 

It's truly a thing of beauty as I've removed a serious danger in my profession that is one event shy of ending my career. Of course; I'll discuss that vantage point clearly to the open public without hiding in the business lounge to do so.

Take a hint.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*What about those mobile homes*

Fortunately we don't have many basements here. In my years in this trade I that I can recall the number of htrs left behind can be counted on one maybe 2 fingers so I'm fortunate. If pressed I would say I'd remove every one I can untill it becomes dangerous to me or my help or if it proves possible to damage the customers home. I think there are too many variables to make one rule. Too me it's a common since thing. I think we are all at the same page really. What I have seen and is really hard to do is remove and especially replace a WH in a mobile home where the platform is 3 feet off ground and you pull the bottom out and let it drop then have to push the replacement up at an angle and into it's hole because the door is shorter than the WH. I've bout hurt myself on those and hate them. Takes 2 (stout) people very often.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Used to be I had to pay some one to come to my shopand haul em off. Now I just put them out by the street. They last about 30 minutes with the garbage hawks.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> ...So in summary...


I was merely weighing in on matters you laid on the table. And in so doing, offer an idea on how providing the complete service of hauling out the trash is preferable, very doable, and safe (even for a one man operation). Why is it so hard for you to focus on your own topic?

I'm glad you're busy, I'm glad you're making money, and I also respect that you don't want to sacrifice your body for a job. Neither do I. But if you're going to ignore part of the job because something is hard, risky, or heavy, why are you a service plumber? 

You and I will just have to agree to disagree that 95% of your customers would rather have you leave trash in their home as opposed to getting complete professional service. I know you smooth talk them into it, but is it really what they want? Maybe it is if those are the same homes where you can find a car after mowing the backyard.



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> ...you know that hiring strangers for a 15 minute task is not only cost prohibitive but I'd be hard pressed to not be engaging a minimum 4 hour charge for 2 guys...


No, I don't know that because it is not true. Temporary labor is a cost effective and risk free way to get a labor intensive project done by a small company.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

I always had the apprentice take the old one out to the curb and write "For Sale" on it, they were almost always gone by the time we got the tools back to the truck.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

On a residential service call, leaving the dead heater standing there seems grossly unprofessional to me.

If ya don't want to do the COMPLETE job, then maybe you shouldn't do any part of it.

I have never seen a water heater FULL of sediment. (your words) Maybe a couple inches in the bottom. 

Suck it up and pack it out....


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> On a residential service call, leaving the dead heater standing there seems grossly unprofessional to me.
> 
> If ya don't want to do the COMPLETE job, then maybe you shouldn't do any part of it.
> 
> ...


See, that is the disadvantage of working in a small urban area, in Chicago anything left near the street with a for sale sign on it is usually stolen in less than ten minutes.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> On a residential service call, leaving the dead heater standing there seems grossly unprofessional to me.
> 
> If ya don't want to do the COMPLETE job, then maybe you shouldn't do any part of it.
> 
> ...


 

No.




KTS,


With the cost of scrap so high right now, I've been trying to get as many as I can (without dangerous lifting) as 4 tanks and 2 expansion tanks paid $67 last week. 

I wanted to get them out of view because most times I'm not at the shop during the day and anyone could do a quick grab and be gone. 

On garbage night, there is literally traffic of junk guys that show up, they know the routes and days and try to pick off anything that can add up to 20's in the wallet. 



:laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> See, that is the disadvantage of working in a small urban area, in Chicago anything left near the street with a for sale sign on it is usually stolen in less than ten minutes.


Sorry KTS. I shoulda quoted Dunbar. I was responding to him not you. 

Leaving it standing in the basement seems grossly unprofessional.....


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Few years back, the hvac team left a good used furnace on curb near street hoping someone would grab it. Never did for several days, so HO put a for sale on it $50.00 and it disappeared that night, LOL


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I used to bring all old units in and leave them in alley,,,, or did until the guys picking them up grabbed some 3" black pipe I had up against my fence too. :no: So now I take it all inside and let a friend take them.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I haul 'em.

Most of the time, anyway.

But when I was building my price book, I did a reverse on the water heaters. Instead of adding for removal and so on, I deduct if the heater is drained or if I don't have to haul it. I also deduct if it's on a main floor rather than a basement. Most here are in basements. And most have very heavy sediment. I have had to punch a hole in the side to remove the sediment before I could lift one.

I collect 'em here at home and then get a rental trailer and haul them all out at once, along with things like yard debris and toilets/sinks. 

I have injured myself badly, but not badly enough for surgery. If it's too heavy I won't try it. And the Powermate might be nice but there are so many places that I just couldn't use it.

I have seen three or four old heaters in crawl spaces and if I do I'm likely to leave the old one I'm replacing, too.


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## Sylvan Tieger (Jan 22, 2011)

*We Agree Dunbar*

I also ask "any stairs" and if the heater is located in a basement with only stair access instead of a back door there is a $175 fee for removal (up to 50 gallon) 

Then I have a helper take the tank to the sidewalk and leave it for the garbage guys to take it

I also explain to accounts that if they want to pay $175 per hr for one man to open walls /floors / ceilings no problem Or they can hire a guy and call me when the piping is exposed.

Skilled craftsmen paid their dues thus we should not take a chance of getting hurt doing work that does not require to much gray matter


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## Sylvan Tieger (Jan 22, 2011)

. And most have very heavy sediment. I have had to punch a hole in the side to remove the sediment before I could lift one.


When confronted with heavy sediment types why not just remove the blow down valve and poke a hole thought the rust / corrosion rather then making hole?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Sylvan Tieger said:


> . And most have very heavy sediment. I have had to punch a hole in the side to remove the sediment before I could lift one.
> 
> 
> When confronted with heavy sediment types why not just remove the blow down valve and poke a hole thought the rust / corrosion rather then making hole?


Seems like I remember Tieger being banned.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Maybe the 2nd time is the charm. Banned 12/21/09 and 2 minutes ago.......


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Aww, c'mon, is there no forgiveness?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> Aww, c'mon, is there no forgiveness?


Nope. It seems like a pretty good system to me. :thumbsup:


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

I also always remove the old heaters also and usually am by myself...my solution was to hook up with a scrap guy who I call whenever and he comes n hauls away


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> I also always remove the old heaters also and usually am by myself...my solution was to hook up with a scrap guy who I call whenever and he comes n hauls away


 

I'm scrapping out heaters now, it pays too well at this point.


Everybody would be proud of me: 

I removed the heater the last one I did, this past sunday. But there was a walkout basement, no steps and I rolled it through the neighhbor's yard into their driveway to go the flattest way out, smooth transition instead of my customer's steep hilside to his driveway.

Loaded it up and gone. Thanks. :devil2:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*they are worth 10 bucks each*

we have been scrapping them out for years...
have a dumpster dropped off and fill it up with about
55 of them ..... they weigh it and send us a check for 
about $650.

you would not believe how much trouble the theives would go through just to cut the brass and copper off these heaters...

last week some loser squirmed under a fence with barb wire on it in the snow... just to grab the scraps off the heaters... we caught him and he took off like a jack rabbit..

the best thing to do is to leave a few gallons in the unit.
it freezes solid over the winter... just adds to the weight..:laughing::laughing:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*water heater removeal-old ones*

I am getting the heaters not hauled out are minimal. I understand not hauling the old heaters out of a basement. When I was younger and in Ohio I hauled old heaters out I was dumb and did a ton of them by myself. Next Wednesday I am scheduled for a fusion of the L4 and L5. Problem was not the lifting it was turning my body from the left to the right. However it probably was all the stuff I have done over time to my body that allowed for the ease of the injury now.

We do haul all heaters away, often from the attic however we do have three guys for attic heaters and two when we do run into a basement. Gas heaters on a stand are a 2 man job.

I would love to be the competition in quite a few places.


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## Catlin987987 (Nov 12, 2010)

We always haul away our tanks, the scrap yards in EDmonton Don't pay for them. I have changed out at least 500+ tanks and have never had a residential tank I could not do bymyself


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I weigh 160lbs. I frequently move 40 year old 120 gallon solar tanks that have about 1 foot of sediment in the bottom.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't what yor deal is. I guess maybe you work so cheap you can't afford spend the extra 15 minutes it takes to load a problematic heater up? I Dunno.....



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> You're failing to adhere to the prior knowledge that I let the customer know ahead of time that I normally will not remove a heavy water heater if I cannot get it to drain properly, or filled with calcium carbonate.
> 
> I tell them if I can get the water heater back to it's original weight, I'll attempt it. Otherwise I'm bedding the statement that I won't promise a removal of the old one if the potential is there for serious harm or injury.
> 
> ...


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I am getting the heaters not hauled out are minimal. I understand not hauling the old heaters out of a basement. When I was younger and in Ohio I hauled old heaters out I was dumb and did a ton of them by myself. Next Wednesday I am scheduled for a fusion of the L4 and L5. Problem was not the lifting it was turning my body from the left to the right. However it probably was all the stuff I have done over time to my body that allowed for the ease of the injury now.
> 
> We do haul all heaters away, often from the attic however we do have three guys for attic heaters and two when we do run into a basement. Gas heaters on a stand are a 2 man job.
> 
> I would love to be the competition in quite a few places.





Protech said:


> I weigh 160lbs. I frequently move 40 year old 120 gallon solar tanks that have about 1 foot of sediment in the bottom.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is, I don't what yor deal is. I guess maybe you work so cheap you can't afford spend the extra 15 minutes it takes to load a problematic heater up? I Dunno.....


 
Read Richard's statement. It's identical to my situation except I'm not getting cut on, yet.

You are in the land of slab homes in florida, where steps are not the norm in home construction.

I've been a workaholic since I was 16 and you should be baking me cookies for every idea I come up with that makes me money and doesn't involve blunt force trauma to my back. 

I'm sure of one thing; I'll be in a wheelchair someday due to my height and back problems. Last thing I'll do is be a hero on the internet telling everyone I'm pulling water heaters when I'm not.

And I say this as I'm typing this with a completely numb left leg from a drain call I did, yesterday. 

My world, my health problems, don't anyone feel sorry for me. I'm unstoppable whether I'm walking or not.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Cuttem in 1/2


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*guys in an attic*



Richar
[FONT=Calibri said:


> We do haul all heaters away, often from the attic however we do have three guys for attic heaters and two when we do run into a basement. Gas heaters on a stand are a 2 man job.[/FONT]


3 guys to get a wter heater out of a basement,,,

you guys are big pussies...:laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Are they hauling them out full or something? :laughing:



Master Mark said:


> 3 guys to get a wter heater out of a basement,,,
> 
> you guys are big pussies...:laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*gonna be stuck till spring*

these 40 heaters are buried in ice....:laughing:

I did not get rid of them quick enough
cant even pry them out 



So. I think they are stuck in here till spring...


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Damn, looks like a prison compound with all the barb wire everywhere. 

You really do operate in a bad neighborhood to have that as part of your defense system.


But wouldn't it be so much more fun to have night vision goggles, hollow point bullets taking head shots for fun and games. Give me an excuse to kill and I'm taking it.



I have another heater replacement come in today... doubt if I pull it because the guy told me when he replaced the elements, they were covered up with so much buildup he couldn't get them out of the tank. 

6 year old whirlpool.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*barb wire is good*

they actually go under the wire to get to the copper
so I had to stretch a few more strands under there....:laughing::laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*I had to leave one today*

This is your alls update. Hahahaaaaaaaaaaa! 


I got razzed a lil' by the old timer but he had to pull the new elements out of the tank he just installed, and his son and a friend would remove it.

A steep set of steps and the angle was terrible just bringing the new down. 


I get to come back in the spring and install a PRV/EXP tank, new whole house water filter, washing machine hoses. 


Found out that I went to school, actually in the same class with their daughter. Was a good time today and made them feel really comfortable in their home.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> This is your alls update. Hahahaaaaaaaaaaa!
> 
> 
> I got razzed a lil' by the old timer but he had to pull the new elements out of the tank he just installed, and his son and a friend would remove it.
> ...


Finally!!!!!!! Yee Haw!!!...I agree that has to be considered a good day. :laughing:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Master Mark,Yep we are. One guy in the attic two guys on the main floor. One time the attic frame fell while lowering a water heater and the frame hit a plumber in the head splitting his head open. We learned the hard way to start doing things the right way and safe way. When it comes to safety or money safety will always win out. Then we learned if we price things up the right way safety and costs can live together as long we are not afraid of our price.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*water heater removeal-old ones*

Protech . read dude. attics.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*you are totally right*



Richard Hilliard said:


> Master Mark,Yep we are. One guy in the attic two guys on the main floor. One time the attic frame fell while lowering a water heater and the frame hit a plumber in the head splitting his head open. We learned the hard way to start doing things the right way and safe way. When it comes to safety or money safety will always win out. Then we learned if we price things up the right way safety and costs can live together as long we are not afraid of our price.


 
I am sorry I called you a girley man....:yes:

we dont even fool with the 75 gallon ones without
a third guy... and even then you can get hurt if you are not careful...

.

I am glad we dont have them in the attic around here
summer or winter it would be hell ....

how much more do you charge for an attic change out??? It would be worth at least 300 bucks to me.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*water heater removeal*

Doesn't bother me Mark as I stated we learned the hard way. We charge for two extra plumbers. Once the old heater is out and the other heater is up the two guys leave. 

I try to stay out of how much any one charges. Lets just say more courage is neccessary to charge the right amount. I know we are worth it.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I just did one in an attic in a 2 story house.............. by myself........after staying out drinking all night..........and the place had 12' cielings.

Off to the next one!

Don't be a girly man :laughing:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Protech said:


> I just did one in an attic in a 2 story house.............. by myself........after staying out drinking all night..........and the place had 12' cielings.
> 
> Off to the next one!
> 
> Don't be a girly man :laughing:


 
Only 12 foot ceilings?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

We generally improvise a handle on the nipples coming out of the top of the tank with 2 ground joint unions, 2 90's and 3 nipples and then a stout leather strap with handles to loop around the bottom of the tank.

Most of the time it just takes two of us, but a third person is available if needed.


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

most of the tanks here are on a stand and now requiring a pan so their are a pain to get up. 

i found this http://www.azliftingsolutions.com/ works good i lift it to a large milk crate then from there to the pan, so i`m not doing it all in one lift.

i do it alone. the wife wont help me. lol


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## PlumberJake (Nov 15, 2010)

ranman said:


> most of the tanks here are on a stand and now requiring a pan so their are a pain to get up.
> 
> i found this http://www.azliftingsolutions.com/ works good i lift it to a large milk crate then from there to the pan, so i`m not doing it all in one lift.
> 
> i do it alone. the wife wont help me. lol


I have one of those. A customers son-in-law invented it and my customer had one sent to me. Really helps us 150 # plumbers.

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## PrecisionPlumb (Feb 17, 2011)

What I hate now is the attic stairway on the second floor with open wall to the downstairs on both sides. ughhh. but i still pull them


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Out of the last 10 I've done in the past month, I've probably left 2,3. :laughing:


Got one next week that's a walk out basement. YES! :thumbsup:


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

Have always taken the old heaters out. If they purchase there own heater it is a additional charge to get rid of the old water heater. With a power cart taking heaters out of the basement is as simple as balance and push a switch.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Ruudplumber said:


> Have always taken the old heaters out. If they purchase there own heater it is a additional charge to get rid of the old water heater. With a power cart taking heaters out of the basement is as simple as balance and push a switch.


An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Yongbae (Feb 22, 2011)

I suck with multiple choice questions... where is the box with all the above?


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## plumber4200 (Feb 11, 2011)

I have really appreciated this thread. I have always removed water heaters whether by myself or with my helper and this just goes to show me that we do have options. I have a back that is usable but getting worse from water heaters and cast iron tubs and now that I am 40, going to the gym is getting harder and harder after some days doing water heater change outs. I am considering charging extra to remove now or in some cases letting them know that it can remain down there with the other two heaters that the other guys left. This has been on my mind for a while and thanks to Dunbar for this post in general.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumber4200 said:


> I have really appreciated this thread...


Click HERE for even more cool info...


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## Stelletti (Dec 10, 2010)

This is what we have used for years. The machine does all the work. You just hold it for balance and push the button with your thumb.

http://www.wescomfg.com/html/hand_trucks/stairking_battery.htm


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Stelletti said:


> This is what we have used for years. The machine does all the work. You just hold it for balance and push the button with your thumb.
> 
> http://www.wescomfg.com/html/hand_trucks/stairking_battery.htm


You're going to want to post an introductio before you can expert and reciprocity from the membership my griend


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I looked at a change out yesterday where there's a 16 yr old 80gal that is gonna be a bear to remove. It's sitting on the floor of what used to be the garage, till the previous HO raised the rest of the garage floor to the level of the main floor, & boxed in around it. 
The home inspector told the new owner it was fine. Plus the guy's getting 3 bids, & the other plumber told him 6yrs on the tank, parts & labor.


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## Stelletti (Dec 10, 2010)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> You're going to want to post an introductio before you can expert and reciprocity from the membership my griend



Your going to want tot learn proper english before scolding me my "griend".


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Stelletti said:


> Your going to want tot learn proper english before scolding me my "griend".


Are you a plumber?




An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Stelletti said:


> Your going to want tot learn proper english before scolding me my "griend".


Oh boy that's a great start for some forum noobie that can't read...:laughing:

Last I knew "Appliance Installer" wasn't a plumber...


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Stelletti said:


> Your going to want tot learn proper english before scolding me my "griend".


I am actually very well versed in the English language my "friend", and I am sure some other members would vouch for me on that subject. Fact is, I was drunk last night, real drunk!

My hangover will fade, your hackiness will go on eternally.


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## Stelletti (Dec 10, 2010)

My hackiness? Not sure what you mean there. You care to throw your certifications against mine? I would bet your a plumber right? Electrician? Gas fitter? Water conditioning? You hold those licenses too? I do. Either way...I was making personal attacks but rather just trying to help someone out with something that I have used for water heaters for years. After re-reading it, maybe it did come across as a sales pitch, but I was just showing you something. You keep leaving those water heaters in the basement though. Talk about hack...


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Stelletti said:


> My hackiness? Not sure what you mean there. You care to throw your certifications against mine? I would bet your a plumber right? Electrician? Gas fitter? Water conditioning? You hold those licenses too? I do. Either way...I was making personal attacks but rather just trying to help someone out with something that I have used for water heaters for years. After re-reading it, maybe it did come across as a sales pitch, but I was just showing you something. You keep leaving those water heaters in the basement though. Talk about hack...


How exactly does one go about being Licensed for water conditioning?


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Oh and you can explain it in your intro, after that we all talk business.


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## mialle30 (May 10, 2010)

I always remove them. It can be a pain but it is the right thing to do.


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