# Need advice broken clay.



## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

Hey guys,

I've got a broken 4" clay main at 4'down. @ 18" on customers side of the street curb. Water bubbling to surface at a decent rate right at the curb. No solids coming to surface.The break site is in a parkway 4' between curb and the sidewalk. Raised foundation house is not backed up yet enough fluids are getting out.

Ran camera from 4" roof stack out 83' to locate for c/o in the yard and where break was at. I was hoping the line would drain down enough to get a look, 4" stayed full with plenty of solids.Camera is under water soon as it goes horizontal. Camera just stops can't see anything. Ran k-60 7/8" out , just stops no progress.

Call dig alert. They tell me 6" untraceable water main at my dig site. Was planning on hiring out " bobcat " to dig the c/o and raw sewage saturated break hole.

Not sure how to approach this. My sleepless night is coming up with all kinds of scenarios. How to hand dig mud 4' down. Need trash pump,haul dirt/mud away or pump truck. County would not appreciate me pumping into street :no: adding to flow already existing. I'm guessing that with water coming to the surface right at curb, the curb/ street is going to be undermined. The water flow is bringing dirt fines to the surface. This is where it gets really past my pay grade.

Never backed off a job. Probably should have customer call insurance, what little experience I've had with insurance jobs they won't repair breaks just accessing and return to original condition??

This is an existing customer, hate to give job to someone else but want to do right by customer. I'm one man shop with no resources/ connections for potential problems.

I have zero experience with public works, my license doesn't cover it or hazmat " serv pro " situations.

Gotta admit the 6'' water main makes me nervous.

Any advice?

Thanks!


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## TanksNoTanks (Mar 12, 2015)

wookie said:


> Hey guys, I've got a broken 4" clay main at 4'down. @ 18" on customers side of the street curb. Water bubbling to surface at a decent rate right at the curb. No solids coming to surface.The break site is in a parkway 4' between curb and the sidewalk. Raised foundation house is not backed up yet enough fluids are getting out. Ran camera from 4" roof stack out 83' to locate for c/o in the yard and where break was at. I was hoping the line would drain down enough to get a look, 4" stayed full with plenty of solids.Camera is under water soon as it goes horizontal. Camera just stops can't see anything. Ran k-60 7/8" out , just stops no progress. Call dig alert. They tell me 6" untraceable water main at my dig site. Was planning on hiring out " bobcat " to dig the c/o and raw sewage saturated break hole. Not sure how to approach this. My sleepless night is coming up with all kinds of scenarios. How to hand dig mud 4' down. Need trash pump,haul dirt/mud away or pump truck. County would not appreciate me pumping into street :no: adding to flow already existing. I'm guessing that with water coming to the surface right at curb, the curb/ street is going to be undermined. The water flow is bringing dirt fines to the surface. This is where it gets really past my pay grade. Never backed off a job. Probably should have customer call insurance, what little experience I've had with insurance jobs they won't repair breaks just accessing and return to original condition?? This is an existing customer, hate to give job to someone else but want to do right by customer. I'm one man shop with no resources/ connections for potential problems. I have zero experience with public works, my license doesn't cover it or hazmat " serv pro " situations. Gotta admit the 6'' water main makes me nervous. Any advice? Thanks!


 did you try calling city sewer it seems here my work stops at back of walk ,the area you are describing belongs to the city


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

It takes a real man to admit he might not be able to handle a situation....but I would

Rent a day laborer with a dump truck
And hand dig that *****, before you back off. Pipe is pipe, you can repair it .


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

Customer is responsible to city main which is @ 20' from break under street to manhole.


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

HUGE shout out to Ben for the phone call!!


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

call in a hydro-excavator. he will suck the sewage and dig at the same time.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> call in a hydro-excavator. he will suck the sewage and dig at the same time.


I second this. The cost of the service vs labor should balance out, plus no worry about the water line, electric or gas.


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Drum machine :jester: to open the line then hand dig. Chances are with the right kinks in a whip and some patience you could at least poke a hole to drain the water down. If there's no cleanout then dig a tile hole  (in a spot sensible for a cleanout) and clean it from there. Then put a cleanout in place of the tile hole when you're making the other repair. No one wants to clean a line from a cleanout that close to the street. All it takes is one drunk driver or teenage girl texting and driving.


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

My advise

I don't know everything but I do sewers all day every day for the last 15 years or so now. I feel I can maybe provide some advise. I would try to hydro-jet 1st as this may be the best option in order to figure out what the best solution is. Once the line is open a solution can be provided or a clean out installation and jetting could be all it needs.

If the hydro jet doesn't work I'm talking with proper nozzles root rat, warthog etc. I can tell you 100% that spot needs repair, it will take someone that knows how to use a jetter many drive around with one, but can't use it properly.

Pipe patch or lining could be an option as well.

p.m if you have questions


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

The plan is to install c/o next to house on Friday which will put me 25' from problem. Empty line, camera to hopefully see whats going on. 

Lucky its not totally backed up. Heavy rains, Friday is dry.

Thanks all !


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

That clean out 25 feet away will help considerably. Like cj said a guy that can use a jetter will be way better than a guy with a jetter. I sure like the vac excavator idea. That's the wave of the future right there.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Were you located? I would just dig the ******* up and fix it. Might get lucky and a crossing utility could have settled on it and crushed it. We had a 24 inch storm settle on a lateral the other day. Little bit of poop water wont hurt you. I would call in a vac, dig it, and make the money!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

bulldozer said:


> Were you located? I would just dig the ******* up and fix it. I would call in a vac, dig it, and make the money!


Oh hell...
He's in Southern California...

He doesn't even have frozen ground to stop him...

Don't be a Girley Man...:laughing:
Get out the shovel and start digging...:thumbup:


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

So how did it go?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

cjtheplumber said:


> So how did it go?


The clay is broke......from 7-1 there is no pipe. There's a strong chance the city may do the repair. In the event they don't, I'll be coming down to install a pipe patch.


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

The city repairs private lines out there? Must be nice. Here they don't care even if the tap connection breaks. (And they are the ones who make that connection in the first place. They still have the HO pay a drain layer to dig it up.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

cable or root said:


> The city repairs private lines out there? Must be nice. Here they don't care even if the tap connection breaks. (And they are the ones who make that connection in the first place. They still have the HO pay a drain layer to dig it up.


Same here. Customer owns everything including the tap on the main.


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

City honcho coming out today at customers request. They will be doing camera inspection and decide.

The break is right under the concrete curb with asphalt street. The curb does have crack in it at my break site, not an off setting break, hairline.
My concern is having to excavate under street couple of feet making a simple pipe repair into a problem.

Thanks all.

Thanks Ben!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

cable or root said:


> The city repairs private lines out there?


We've got some that do...

From the edge of the right of way for the road, another from the sidewalk, and another from the curb...

But most don't...


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

Will be digging break site tomorrow. Two cities and county are involved. They have lead customer to believe that he may get reimbursed if the excavation shows it was damaged by a utility or city. 

If we internal patch no reimbursement from city. A chance if its dug and something is found. Most likely wind up cutting in a clay pipe repair. Was looking forward to watching the internal patch process.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Doing 3 of them today, give me a call and I'll send you the address.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Doing 3 patch jobs at different homes or on the same line?


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Ok. Gear Junkie, im down the street! Send me the address and i will bring lunch!


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

Everything went better than expected. Site was dry enough to dig out, real sticky, I was thinking it would be like runny oatmeal. Top of 4" clay was broken exactly under a coupler on the 6" asbestos concrete water line. 

Clay had @ 1' section of pieces that had fallen into pipe. Repaired with section of clay and heavy duty mission shielded bands. Entire repair was done in area between curb and sidewalk. 

So glad followed rules calling dig alert, bobcat would have nailed that water line for sure. No reason not to call them out its FRRRREEEE! :yes:

Customer took lots of photos, I think he might get some money back from city. If it goes as far as small claims the judges tend to side with homeowner.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

stecar said:


> Doing 3 patch jobs at different homes or on the same line?


I consider a job to be a location no matter how many sectional repairs I do so today was 1 job at the same house but 3 sectional repairs total.


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