# Toilet pump system



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Customer wants a package system pump/toilet that does not require breaking the floor. Any suggestions? The 3" gravity drain is approx. 8' up from the floor that I will be connecting to so thats not a problem. I've seen the liberty loflow...anybody used one?


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

how bout the Liberty Ascent, its a good unit, use as last resort


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

ive also used the sani-flow pump, no call backs, installed 5 last year


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## Everflow (Feb 1, 2010)

I've installed a couple of these with no problems.

http://www.saniflo.com/


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

What is this THE MASTER need help the all powerful super plumber?? :laughing:

Saniflo or the liberty kit. 

You can get the liberty kit or something simular at Lowes which I think you would like that.

The liberty kit will raise the toilet up roughly 6"-8" above floor level. Not very pretty!

Saniflo is a neat system uses a special toilet it comes with the kit. only thing I don't like is the 3/4" discharge or was it a 1" can't remember. :whistling2:

Both systems have side inlets for sinks or tubs


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Sounds like your customer is boxing you into a Macerating Toilet...
Unless they like to step up...

Liberty Ascent
http://www.libertypumps.com/Products/Category/SubCategory/Product/?p=36

Zoeller Qwik Jon Ultima
http://www.zoellerpumps.com/ProductBenefit.aspx?ProductID=59

Saniflo
http://www.saniflo.com/

Make sure you tell the customer that the toilet they are stuck with is what they are stuck with...:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

3KP said:


> What is this THE MASTER need help the all powerful super plumber?? :laughing:
> 
> Saniflo or the liberty kit.
> 
> ...


Didn't you read my post...I said I've seen the liberty kit.:whistling2: Your late on the saniflow info....and its 3/4":whistling2: Thanks for helping:laughing:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Damn, I learned something new today. how bout them apples? Man, I love this forum.:thumbup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I think I'ma use the Saniflow "sanibest" model.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Here is a pic of inside the tank of a saniflow toilet tank.....


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## jecks perrow (Jul 26, 2010)

Hi,
The pump out toilet is more like a conventional house toilet. The liquid and solid toilet waste is stored in a large (sealed) holding tank on your boat which requires emptying every two to three weeks depending on how much you use it.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

jecks perrow said:


> Hi,
> The pump out toilet is more like a conventional house toilet. The liquid and solid toilet waste is stored in a large (sealed) holding tank on your boat which requires emptying every two to three weeks depending on how much you use it.


 :blink:


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

jecks perrow said:


> Hi,
> The pump out toilet is more like a conventional house toilet. The liquid and solid toilet waste is stored in a large (sealed) holding tank on your boat which requires emptying every two to three weeks depending on how much you use it.


 

I don't store chit on my boat. Ever hear of brown trout? :whistling2:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

jecks perrow said:


> Hi,
> The pump out toilet is more like a conventional house toilet. The liquid and solid toilet waste is stored in a large (sealed) holding tank on your boat which requires emptying every two to three weeks depending on how much you use it.


:blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:

Uh Okay that makes complete sense now...:laughing:

I can't wait to see more of your posts....:whistling2:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I think I'ma use the Saniflow "sanibest" model.


My concern with pump-up toilets is ... The customer has no idea of what to expect when a problem arises. With the Zoeller you can by design keep the pump out of the finished bath you can arrange the discharge piping in such a way that you can valve the verticle discharge. Vent properly through the roof with a vent separate from all others. Disadvantage, there will have to be a step up the tank is meant to be framed with 2x6 rafters. I have installed quite a few QuikJons over the years. I would think the Liberty would be similar. These are not mancarating or grinders. Effulent pumps only. You do have the availabilty to drain other fixtures. But on service there is going to be a mess PERIOD! I usually try to get the customer to open the floor, conventional roughin to a tank. I use Liberty in that case. Remember ...
No AAV's on tanks, atmosphere venting only.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> My concern with pump-up toilets is ... The customer has no idea of what to expect when a problem arises. With the Zoeller you can by design keep the pump out of the finished bath you can arrange the discharge piping in such a way that you can valve the verticle discharge. Vent properly through the roof with a vent separate from all others. Disadvantage, there will have to be a step up the tank is meant to be framed with 2x6 rafters. I have installed quite a few QuikJons over the years. I would think the Liberty would be similar. These are not mancarating or grinders. Effulent pumps only. You do have the availabilty to drain other fixtures. But on service there is going to be a mess PERIOD! I usually try to get the customer to open the floor, conventional roughin to a tank. I use Liberty in that case. Remember ...
> No AAV's on tanks, atmosphere venting only.


I'm doin the saniflow sanibest toilet system. ....its a macerating grinder. The saniflow pump is in a small container that sits behind the toilet on the floor.

It does not hafta be vented for it to work.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I'm doin the saniflow sanibest toilet system. ....its a macerating grinder. The saniflow pump is in a small container that sits behind the toilet on the floor.
> 
> It does not hafta be vented for it to work.


 I've installed 2 saniflo's both worked way better than I thought 3 years and no call backs. BUT I think they had to be vented. I believe in Europe they could use a charcol filter to have it vented into the house. but it still had to be vented. it has been 3 years maybe I'm wrong


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I'm doin the saniflow sanibest toilet system. ....its a macerating grinder. The saniflow pump is in a small container that sits behind the toilet on the floor.
> 
> It does not hafta be vented for it to work.


TM: Your statement I brought up at a local supplier of SaniFlo products.

Here is a cropped scan of what they gave me.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I've done about 3 or 4. 

Must be vented thru roof.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> TM: Your statement I brought up at a local supplier of SaniFlo products.
> 
> Here is a cropped scan of what they gave me.


Yep.....and it still does not hafta be vented to work. It may hafta be vented to meet code but it does not hafta be vented to operate correctly as far as saniflow is concerned.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Yep.....and it still does not hafta be vented to work. It may hafta be vented to meet code but it does not hafta be vented to operate correctly as far as saniflow is concerned.


 
WOW, that was a paper from SaniFlo. 

Sounds like they talk out both sides of their mouth per your post.

If so, don't you work by code. Sounds like you're not giving the custromer all thats theirs. Sorta like stealing in reverse ... ???


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> WOW, that was a paper from SaniFlo.
> 
> Sounds like they talk out both sides of their mouth per your post.
> 
> If so, don't you work by code. Sounds like you're not giving the custromer all thats theirs. Sorta like stealing in reverse ... ???


Yeah it sounds like they do talk out of both sides of their mouth......Now if you would use both sides of your brain...and maybe utilize the FRONT and not let your emotions get in the way of thinking in a logical manner you would understand that the saniflow system will work without an add on vent........I never said I wasn't gonna vent the one I'm installing......I simply said.."IT WILL WORK"

Now quit crossing threads with your personal quest to try and get back at me for telling you that finding things in customers home......SHOULD NOT BE KEPT AS YOUR OWN. Its not your property or any of your business.

Hava good'in:whistling2:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Yeah it sounds like they do talk out of both sides of their mouth......Now if you would use both sides of your brain...and maybe utilize the FRONT and not let your emotions get in the way of thinking in a logical manner you would understand that the saniflow system will work without an add on vent........I never said I wasn't gonna vent the one I'm installing......I simply said.."IT WILL WORK"
> 
> Now quit crossing threads with your personal quest to try and get back at me for telling you that finding things in customers home......SHOULD NOT BE KEPT AS YOUR OWN. Its not your property or any of your business.
> Hava good'in:whistling2:


SIR ... Your time spounge has soaked up more water than it can hold. Therefore I'm wringing it out.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> SIR ... Your time spounge has soaked up more water than it can hold. Therefore I'm wringing it out.


I have no clue as to what your speaking to......I guess that makes two of us:whistling2:

Have a GOOD'N sport


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

tm. that's a shiit kickin remark where i'm from. as in i'm gonna thump you. breid...............:rockon:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Redwood drops a teabag across the bridge of TM's nose... :furious:


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

I know this is is wrong T.M......

Are you related to iron ranger?:whistling2:


italicized omitted for effect:yes:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

The anchor kit that came with the saniflow to bolt it to the concrete sucked.....I did not use it. They give you 2 plastic inserts and 2 lag screws....Not for me. The floor was split brick and its setting on a sand/cement bed that will really not hold an anchor. I used some 1/4"x 6" heavy duty galvanized bolts.
I drilled a 1/2 hole through the split brick and sand bed and into the original concrete.
I used a long skinny screw driver to widen the hole near the bottom to allow the hot lead to mushroom at the bottom of the hole and not have a chance of pulling out.

You can see the left bolt is in part of the patch where the old flange was.....the existing pipe was bad so he wanted an upflush.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)




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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)




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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Uncoated galv. 2 hole strap on the pvc =


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Uncoated galv. 2 hole strap on the pvc =


Yes I was out of the coated titanium 3 hole straps with gold trim......you caught me:whistling2:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Round here, our inspectors will fail you for that. Must be a coated strap on pvc. 

It was brought up at the inspectors continuing ed class a few years back, so they are on the look out for it. 

If we are out of coated straps, we wrap them in electrical tape.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Round here, our inspectors will fail you for that. Must be a coated strap on pvc.
> 
> It was brought up at the inspectors continuing ed class a few years back, so they are on the look out for it.
> 
> If we are out of coated straps, we wrap them in electrical tape.


Well if thats your code then you better follow it.:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

My complaints about the saniflow toilet system.

1. When mounting on a concrete slab they give you cheesy plastic inserts for anchors and plain ol steel lags.
2.The hole in the tank for the handle is HUGE. Its about 1" square. Cheap rubber bushing that fit over their standard POS plastic tank handle. No matter what I did the handle would not get tight and still operate....this is important because if the handle slips and the flapper doesn't drop,the pump will overheat and the pump will turn off.......then the room will flood.
3.The discharge should not go more than 12" horizontal before you hafta turn vertical.....once you turn vertical you must continue straight vertical until you reach the highest elevation in the discharge piping.
4. Almost NO water in the bowl and theres no way to increase it.
5. Cheap tank to bowl bolts and the holes in the tank are HUGE...prolly close to 1/2"
6.Cheap rubber check valve in the discharge.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

The guy called today and said one tank bolt has a drop of water on it. The close coupled kit that comes with it is a POS and the holes in the tank are huge. Its over all a POS system because of the manufacturer...not the idea behind it. No excuse for have 1/2-5/8 diameter holes in a tank for 5/16" bolts. The tank's china seems thin too.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

To bad. My installs went fine. Hopefully you installed the only bad one and all the rest will be fine.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)




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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Bringing this back up because I have a customer interested in something like this. I have been looking at Saniflo's site but have never seen one in person. There is no room for a pit so it has to be an above ground system. Does anybody have a recomendation that they really like? TM seemed to hate the Saniflo and all his points seemed valid. Did he just get a unit made on Friday? Anything better out there?





Paul


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## Maximumplumbing (Nov 6, 2010)

I've installed a handful of Saniflows they work well in my opinion. I've got a couple that have been in three or four years and not one call back. The mounting bolts do suck but it's nothing a couple of tap cons won't take care of. By the way in my experience they have to be vented. Vtr or tied into a vtr. I actually experimented a little with the vent thing, it's a no go with out an open air system.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm doing one right now and here's some pictures of the stuff, right out of the box.

























































So far, it definately looks a little on the mobile home/r.v. style. Almost every part that is supplied looks pretty cheap and chinsey. The bowl and pump box connect with this cheap-o rubber coupling and a ZIP TIE!  I was just doing some demo and rough-in stuff today and will probably complete most of it tomorrow. I'll update this after I've finished it and given it a test drive. :blink:






Paul


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## CaptainBob (Jan 3, 2011)

The bowl looks like pictures I've seen of toilets in England. Perhaps some of our Brit friends on here can confirm this.


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

I have had no call backs or issues with Saniflow. 

Cons- the connections at the unit are garbage. The first time I installed I actually greased them with silicone I was so scared.  The anchors on concrete, just throw them away. Agreed , tapcom all the way! And yeah cheap toilet. I have also heard complaints about the noise, but I always use the extension and the grinder is behind a finished wall. 

Venting - I have been told by a few ppl I trust they have used scooter vents( quick/ under the counter ) and had no issues. But I have always found a way to get them into the open system or vent separately. Quick Vents are generally accepted here- depending on the inspector. 

But in all no call backs- home owners/Gc always seem happy with the performance. And it can be one the easiest things you do that week


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

The sanibest is best, but all are good if used properly and the homeowner knows how they work.

I would never recommend installing in a rented property where frequent changes of people are there, them situations are the only call backs we have. 

As for the pan, the very same as over here. 

We don't vent the line from the saniflo to stack, only if we drop down a floor to find an outfall. 
We mainly use them when the wc is lower then the outfall (drain). Basement for example. And the pumped outlet is vertical. 

We also use 1 1/4" PVC for the pumped outlet, some people use 3/4", way too small. 

Make sure you have a vertical run before the horizontal, and ideally the horizontal should have a fall.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

I've done a few of these but not a lot. About 6 mos ago we changed out a pump tank (the macerator was toast after 8 yrs) and SFA sweetened the deal enough that we got the complete setup: tank & bowl & pump tank for the cost of a replacement pump. Labour costs clinched the deal since it was quicker and easier to change the whole works rather than messing around with repairing.
The original install was real easy with a 1" discharge that went straight up about 9' and then horizontal (pitched away) for about 30' and a 2' drop into a WYE ftg on a waste stack. For the retrofit we added a full port 1" ball valve to the existing discharge and bushed the valve to 3/4" to accept the less than one foot of 3/4" discharge from the new macerating unit.

There've been no callbacks on the latest install but no thank-you cards either. The bowl never completely eliminates the waste as there's always some bits left floating around the bowl's trap seal. The pump seems to cycle excessively (if you're whizzing in the bowl it'll cycle on and off at least three times before you're done!) 

I remember thinking how cheezy and cheap all the fasteners and connecting fittings were when I first installed one, yet they always seemed to work flawlessly and with little to no maintainance calls afterwards. But this latest one has me on pins and needles wondering when the customer will call back all irate and in a snit. I'm there on a fairly regular basis anyway for routine and regular maintenance for other things so I always hear the latest about this toilet. They're not unhappy but not really satisfied either so that bugs me a bit since I'm used to all my people being satisfied with the work we do.


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

I will be installing a Saniflo saniACCESS2 for a customer later this week. It’s been a while since I’ve installed one of these units. I was reading through the installation manual and can clearly see that the 3/4” discharge line and pump vertically a max of 15’ then 1/4”/ft to drain. I was considering upsizing the drain to 1.5” to gravity drain about 25-30’ across the basement to tie into the main stack. Do you think that would be best, or should I run the 3/4” all the way to maintain the pump pressure? Any thought based on experience would be greatly appreciated.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Sstratton6175 said:


> I will be installing a Saniflo saniACCESS2 for a customer later this week. It’s been a while since I’ve installed one of these units. I was reading through the installation manual and can clearly see that the 3/4” discharge line and pump vertically a max of 15’ then 1/4”/ft to drain. I was considering upsizing the drain to 1.5” to gravity drain about 25-30’ across the basement to tie into the main stack. Do you think that would be best, or should I run the 3/4” all the way to maintain the pump pressure? Any thought based on experience would be greatly appreciated.



NEVER UPSIZE the discharge pipe on those little macerating pump packages. Like you said, need to maintain pressure or it will clog.

Keep it 3/4" until it hits the 3" or 4" gravity main.


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> NEVER UPSIZE the discharge pipe on those little macerating pump packages. Like you said, need to maintain pressure or it will clog.
> 
> Keep it 3/4" until it hits the 3" or 4" gravity main.


Thanks a ton. I really appreciate it


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> NEVER UPSIZE the discharge pipe on those little macerating pump packages. Like you said, need to maintain pressure or it will clog.
> 
> Keep it 3/4" until it hits the 3" or 4" gravity main.


There is no reason why as soon as it gets pumped up high enough he can't upsize it to 11/2" as it starts to roll downhill by gravity. I believe it was the saniflow I put in a couple years back and I believe it actually said to upsize when going over to gravity. You keep it 3/4" going up and then turn horizontal and upsize to 11/2". It's only a small 3/4" line because the pump is not big enough to handle the weight pushing down on it if it went up in 11/2" but as soon as it goes downhill again then gravity will do its job like in any other drain so no reason you can't then go to 11/2"

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Sstratton6175 said:


> I will be installing a Saniflo saniACCESS2 for a customer later this week. It’s been a while since I’ve installed one of these units. I was reading through the installation manual and can clearly see that the 3/4” discharge line and pump vertically a max of 15’ then 1/4”/ft to drain. I was considering upsizing the drain to 1.5” to gravity drain about 25-30’ across the basement to tie into the main stack. Do you think that would be best, or should I run the 3/4” all the way to maintain the pump pressure? Any thought based on experience would be greatly appreciated.


no where does it say you must use 3/4 pipe..it says the minimum to use is 3/4 or 1 inch pipe..if it wanted you to stay with 3/4 or 1 inch it would have stated maximum ....

IIGENERAL DESCRIPTIONThe macerator/pump unit is a residential pumping system for a toilet and bathroom fixtures. It can simultaneously receive wastewater from sanitary fixtures such as a sink, but only one toilet per unit.This macerator is designed for the disposal of human waste, toilet paper and water. They are not intended to be used for the disposal of kitchen waste or from pump appliances such as a dishwasher or washing machine. Installed and used correctly, this system will give consistent and reliable service. This system must discharge into a minimum 3/4” or 1” sanitary drain pipe.  This system will pump up to 15 feet vertically and/or 150 Ft horizontally, with a minimum 1/4” per foot gravity fall constantly throughout the horizontal run to the point of discharge.There is an extension pipe available from Saniflo which is 18” in length and is used to install the pump behind a wall. It attaches to each end of the toilet and macerator for a secure fit.Note : The macerator can be installed right behind the toilet or further away using the optional extension pipe


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

I installed one a few months ago, and it wasn't rocket surgery, but I sure didn't like that zip tie either. The whole time I kept thinking that I didn't want to be the one to have to come back and service it. Before I left I went over everything I could think of with the little old lady to help reduce the possibility of a preventable service call. Last thing I said was that it can't be used if the power goes out. That hadn't even crossed her mind.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The Dane said:


> There is no reason why as soon as it gets pumped up high enough he can't upsize it to 11/2" as it starts to roll downhill by gravity............


Yes, sorry, I was just having flashbacks to one where they went to 2" on the vertical.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I’ve installed two, augured one. I don’t remember how we ran the first one. The second one I installed last year. Ran 1”. I don’t like them one bit! When customers as about them I just say that I wouldn’t put one in my house. KISS


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

Yeah, I still have a hard time with that 1". But everyone seems to love them.


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