# Toilets on hardwood floors



## dankman (Nov 19, 2009)

Does anyone here lay down plastic before setting them? I never have and haven't received any complaints about it but I've heard arguments for it. Any opinions?


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

never heard of it
i seen another plumber in the supply house the other day ordering a case of the rubber rings because he was " tired of replacing hardwood floors"
not sure but if your guys can't set a toilet with a wax ring why would they do any better with rubber?

sorry, back on topic whats the plastic do


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

bechplumber said:


> never heard of it
> i seen another plumber in the supply house the other day ordering a case of the rubber rings because he was " tired of replacing hardwood floors"
> not sure but if your guys can't set a toilet with a wax ring why would they do any better with rubber?
> 
> sorry, back on topic whats the plastic do


Well for one, the wax will leach into the pores of the wood, just like it does on unsealed granite/stone. It will spread for years from under the toilet.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

never thought of that or had that prob

interesting


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Choctaw said:


> Well for one, the wax will leach into the pores of the wood, just like it does on unsealed granite/stone. It will spread for years from under the toilet.


Never heard of it either but now that its mentioned I think I always blamed dark wood surrounding commodes on leaks in the past. Maybe some of both? The plastic is a new one on me though.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Choctaw said:


> Well for one, the wax will leach into the pores of the wood, just like it does on unsealed granite/stone. It will spread for years from under the toilet.


But the hardwood is sealed with polyurethane. Hmmm, it does seem like I find more bad wax rings on toilets mounted on hardwood than I do anyplace else, maybe you're on to something...

Personally, I think hardwood is a bad choice for a floor in a bathroom. I always suspected water escaping from the tub/shower collected on the floor adjacent to the toilet buckling the hardwood and disrupting the wax seal.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

greenscoutII said:


> But the hardwood is sealed with polyurethane. Hmmm, it does seem like I find more bad wax rings on toilets mounted on hardwood than I do anyplace else, maybe you're on to something...
> 
> Personally, I think hardwood is a bad choice for a floor in a bathroom. I always suspected water escaping from the tub/shower collected on the floor adjacent to the toilet buckling the hardwood and disrupting the wax seal.


It's not sealed on the cut edge up against the flange


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

The top of the wood is sealed, but the edges are not. This is where the leaching occurs.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

plumbpro said:


> It's not sealed on the cut edge up against the flange


Yeah, I guess you're right. How can you tell the wax is leaching into the wood though?


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Distorted color around the base of toilet


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

It will discolor the wood from under the base outwards in an unusual pattern.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Choctaw said:


> It will discolor the wood from under the base outwards in an unusual pattern.


Ok.... Looks like I just learned something..... Thanks guys!

So, what do you think, rubbers on hardwood floor installations then?


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Does wax have an oil in it. I need convincing.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*toilets on hardwood floors*

I once had a local inspector who required us to sit the toilet on linoleum when hardwood floors were present. He was an old time old school union plumber (owner) Vince Spino. He did not allow caulking or grout at the base of the toilet either. The theory is it would keep a leak from going under the hardwood floor


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Does wax have an oil in it. I need convincing.


I can sure tell you it doesn't contain "bees wax".....:laughing:

The Oaty wax contains "petrolatum", you be the judge. http://oatey.com/apps/catalog/insta...heet/Heavy Duty Wax Bowl Ring with Sleeve.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_jelly


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Never thought so much about the wax ring
learn somtin everyday, site says shelf life of one year:huh:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

The problem might because the flange is screwed to the subfloor. When the hardwood is lain down, the flange is under the finished floor, instead of on top. Then either an extra thick wax ring is used or two regulars. I use spacers and don't glue the collar or screw it to the floor. When I come back for the trim, I can pull the flange out and use the right number of spacers to get the right elevation.


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## robertsamual (Dec 5, 2010)

plumbpro said:


> Distorted color around the base of toilet


It can be a way to find out. I personally never heard about it so I can not give my expert advice but quite interesting for me. Thanks for this unknown topic. :thumbup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I've had good luck with neoprene foam rings. They come with a silicone RTV gel to seal them to the flange and bottom of the toilet.

The inspector not allowing caulk or grout under the toilet is wacko. What will stop the toilet from twisting on the flange and working the seal?


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

I'd use the the fluid master wax free bowl gasket.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Protech said:


> I've had good luck with neoprene foam rings. They come with a silicone RTV gel to seal them to the flange and bottom of the toilet.
> 
> The inspector not allowing caulk or grout under the toilet is wacko. What will stop the toilet from twisting on the flange and working the seal?


The johnny bolts.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Till some land monster does the old a$$ slide onto the thing and twists the bolts along the flange rails. Seen it happen a million times.



jjbex said:


> The johnny bolts.


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## CSINEV (Aug 6, 2010)

K, so if the wax creates a seal between the china and the metal flange how is it the wood is an issue? Second floor houses around here are made of OSB strand board for the floor and in most cases the wood is what is next to the flange so why isn't it a problem with the OSB untreated wood but it is with a treated and sealed wood floor?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I've been resetting toilets for 23+ years and have never seen a wax ring leach into the wood. Wastewater yes, wax ring no.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm with DP ,,, have never seen this happen . Sure the water will wreck a floor but only after the wax has failed .


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I've been resetting toilets for 23+ years and have never seen a wax ring leach into the wood. Wastewater yes, wax ring no.


That solves it.............I must be wrong.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Cal said:


> I'm with DP ,,, have never seen this happen . Sure the water will wreck a floor but only after the wax has failed .


Never said it would "wreck" it, it will sure stain it though.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Choctaw said:


> Never said it would "wreck" it, it will sure stain it though.


 

I never saw your response till now.


However, 


You and Protech are both posting from locations where extremely hot weather exists, and those without indoor air conditioning can make a wax ring very soft. 

Would that have a bearing on both our statements?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Protech said:


> Till some land monster does the old a$$ slide onto the thing and twists the bolts along the flange rails. Seen it happen a million times.


I have had to put lockwashers on floor mount toilets at some restaurants. I have seen plenty of caulked toilets with bad wax rings.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

I have never had a problem with using bowl wax, but then again I spray those cut edges with clear urethane spray before setting. I also note in my proposals/contracts that I nor my company is to be held liable for damage to wood flooring used in known wet areas, especially kitchens!!


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

This floor is about 50 years old. No floor damage, no wax seepage.....


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## ap plumbing (Nov 9, 2010)

greenscoutII said:


> But the hardwood is sealed with polyurethane. Hmmm, it does seem like I find more bad wax rings on toilets mounted on hardwood than I do anyplace else, maybe you're on to something...
> 
> Personally, I think hardwood is a bad choice for a floor in a bathroom. I always suspected water escaping from the tub/shower collected on the floor adjacent to the toilet buckling the hardwood and disrupting the wax seal.


 if they have a back up there pretty screwed....same with rug in the restroom...whats wrong with these customers:laughing:


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## chuckscott (Oct 20, 2010)

Maybe I am slow, but I always set toilets the same way with minor adjustments for flanges below floor level and uneven floors etc. Once in a while you have to double up the wax rings on a stubborn install. 

I had caulking around the base of toilet beaten out of me by the master plumber I apprenticed under. His reasoning was that any leak would not show up until the floor was damaged to the point of needing repair. He would say that only flooring guys, apartment/hotel maintenance guys caulk the base of toilets. 

Makes sense to me..


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## Caryg (Feb 20, 2009)

Fernco FTS toilet seal, never one leak!


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

*405.5 Water-tight joints.* Joints formed where fixtures come in contact with walls or floors shall be sealed


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## chuckscott (Oct 20, 2010)

house plumber said:


> *405.5 Water-tight joints.* Joints formed where fixtures come in contact with walls or floors shall be sealed


Wow, totally overlooked that one. Thanks house plumber. I did find this though. 

Section 405.5 Water- tight joints.
Add an exception as follows:
Exception: Floor mounted water closets or bidets


Interesting...Anybody know any more about this. I am pretty sure that this has been adopted in our area. I will have to investigate a little and get back with ya.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

chuckscott said:


> Wow, totally overlooked that one. Thanks house plumber. I did find this though.
> 
> Section 405.5 Water- tight joints.
> Add an exception as follows:
> ...


 
No execptions in my code.


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## chuckscott (Oct 20, 2010)

While sealing around the base of a toilet is code it seems that it is up to each municipality as to whether or not they have exceptions for it. At least around my neck of the woods.

Me, on the other hand, I am fairly new to the IPC. I apprenticed and tested in Illinois using their code book. I pulled out my old Illinois code book and could not find anything about sealing around the base of a toilet. Well, since I am not in Illinois anymore I am going to have to study IPC a little more....:whistling2:


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

chuckscott said:


> While sealing around the base of a toilet is code it seems that it is up to each municipality as to whether or not they have exceptions for it.


No exceptions in Memphis.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

I started my apprenticeship in Illinois Local 501 one of the first things I was told never to forget was to caulk around toilet. code there and code here in chilly minnesota no exceptions. stay warm


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## chuckscott (Oct 20, 2010)

suzie said:


> I started my apprenticeship in Illinois Local 501 one of the first things I was told never to forget was to caulk around toilet. code there and code here in chilly minnesota no exceptions. stay warm


I couldn't find it. My book is from the 90's, not that that means anything. So much for listening to the guy I apprenticed under huh..:laughing:

Seriously though, missing something like that really bothers me. Has me wondering what else I have overlooked. Live and learn I guess....


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

*Mineral oil* (liquid petrolatum) is a by-product in the distillation of petroleum to produce gasoline. It is transparent and *colorless* and food safe. Mineral oil is primarily used to help prevent the wood from drying out.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I once had a local inspector who required us to sit the toilet on linoleum when hardwood floors were present. He was an old time old school union plumber (owner) Vince Spino. He did not allow caulking or grout at the base of the toilet either. The theory is it would keep a leak from going under the hardwood floor


I was always taught not to caulk a toilet. That way you have a better chance of noticing a leak on the bathroom floor before you notice it on the basement ceiling



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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

All this time I thought it was poo!

Learn something new every day!


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## CSINEV (Aug 6, 2010)

Ok this one was messing with me so I did a little home work on it.

_*2006 UPC 310.4 Installation Practices.*_

Plumbing systems shall be installed in a manner conforming to this code, applicable standards, and the *manufacturer's installation instructions*. In instances where the code, applicable standards, or the manufacturer's instructions conflict, the more stringent provisions shall prevail.

I went to the* American Standard *web-site and looked at the *Tropic Cadet 3 two-piece EL toilet's installation instructions*. It plainly states that a bead of sealant should be placed on the bottom of the fixture before setting to the floor. And that the excess sealant should be wiped away after installation is complete.

So there ya have it sports fans, at least in areas where the UPC rules sealing the toilet to the floor is the rule if the installation instructions of that fixture tell you to do so.


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