# Question



## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

The place where I work at now is a new construction place 

Before I apply and got hired I didn't know that they sub out all the ground and the tap out rough in
And all the apprentice in this company do is repair ,nail plate and insulate and also test the build to check for leaks and fix them 

I came from a service and repair company
And that I have done since I started in the trade but I want to learn more than the repair side 
I know how to read the print a little (what required for exam)
Lucky I know SOME rough in standard measurement 

How am I supposed to learn blue prints and laying out grounds if they company subs out? 
Do all new construction sub out? 

Or none of that matters?


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

You'll never learn anything there. Find some place else to work.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Doing service warrany repairs {at least that's what it sounds like in your post} and nailing stud gaurds up won't teach you how to do rough-ins. If you want to learn all the rough-in parts of the trade, you will have to find a company that does it and lets you get your feet wet doing it. 

What's the height of a tub valve off the floor?

How many fixtures can you reasonably pick up with a 1/2" cold line?

What is the rough-in height of a drain line for a kitchen sink, {waste arm}?

These are burned into the memory of those of us who did it for years without hesitation.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> Doing service warrany repairs {at least that's what it sounds like in your post} and nailing stud gaurds up won't teach you how to do rough-ins. If you want to learn all the rough-in parts of the trade, you will have to find a company that does it and lets you get your feet wet doing it. What's the height of a tub valve off the floor? How many fixtures can you reasonably pick up with a 1/2" cold line? What is the rough-in height of a drain line for a kitchen sink, {waste arm}? These are burned into the memory of those of us who did it for years without hesitation.


That exactly my point I want to swim not get wet , and the company does want me to get my journeyman BUt to be a foreman 
And I really like it there too but I want to be a plumber not. 40yr apprentice that been in the trade for 20yr 
I want to get my license but to WORK


Shower valves idk
1/2 you can get two fixtures ? Maybe idk
18" for kitchen drain
21" on waters on 8" center 
24" on pedestal waters
Top of ice maker 18" 
I know some stuff but haven't had a chance to install 
All the install have been sewer and kitchen and washer reroute a but that Radom rough in's


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> That exactly my point I want to swim not get wet , and the company does want me to get my journeyman BUt to be a foreman
> And I really like it there too but I want to be a plumber not. 40yr apprentice that been in the trade for 20yr
> I want to get my license but to WORK
> 
> ...












That's what I'm saying...you have to do it in order to learn this stuff. I've worked with guys who did service plumbing for years, but can't install a bathtub or do a shower pan. 

For example, one service plumber I knew, had a job on his own to rough-in a bathroom for a re-model. He was going to wait until the final {setting fixtures} to install the bathtub. I told him to make his life alot easier, he had better set that tub while he was roughing in the tub valve and other dwv lines. See the point? He was an excellent service man yet he was lost in space when a new construction scenario came his way.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Yes sir I do it goes hand in hand 
I wish I would of ask more question before I told them yes 


[email protected]@ it!!
I'll just have to right it out and hopefully it change with in the next year


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

When I started way back when at the plumbers union a certain company tried to make me the replacement of the current delivery and shop guy who was retiring after 25 years in that position. I ended up quitting after one month when I figured out what was going on and the owner tried to get me kicked out the union but it didn't fly. If I stayed with that company I never would have been able to open up shop for myself. Gotta do what's in your best interest.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

No way do we sub it out. leave to a diff company. But remember ur an apprentice At my job apprentices don't read prints or glue much pipe. They do apprentice work nail plates digging hold rite plates cutting pipe installing hangers ect ect. The ones that show skill I teach when I can. Teach in the truck and will even meet with them for a half day at the shop.(in paid) Teaching them code skills and answering questions. This is a good way for me to teach and pass on the trade I'm busy on site. And boss wants me to plumb not watch. So when I can I let them do ( most apprentices we have are green rite now). Later I will give them projects with in the job. But when it gets down to it if I say move il take over ur slow fukin it up ect ect ect. They move 
I'd ask someone to help u 
I'd draw isos floor plans. Lay outs ect ect 

I'd def find a new job 

Even when u get ur j card then ur a green j man. And u won't know all u need/want to know. I learn something every week 

We have a tradesman license in tx it's a 2 year license. And I believe 2 years isn't enuf time to learn and I do t see them as a peer or plumber. But boy they get a big head wen they get that truck. But they actually dumb down the trade 

I never got the tradesman but I worked for a mechanical company and here under the mech license an app can install. Gas steam hydronic condensate acr ect ect. With out any plumber on site. After a year I had my own truck and helper ... Was sorely under paid .... But was sorely un experienced I had to teach my self a lot. Or ask questions. Gc. Sparkles framers will usually answer questions and teach u some if u approach it rite


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

We have a saying here, no one knows more than a 5th year apprentice or less than a 1st year journeyman. You need a variety of skills before you get your card. Here code is taught to everyone in school and is required knowledge. 

Once you have the license you are on the same level with someone who's been doing it 20 years. Learning time is over then, although you still learn things. The boss will be pissed if you don't know the basics.


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> We have a saying here, no one knows more than a 5th year apprentice or less than a 1st year journeyman. You need a variety of skills before you get your card. Here code is taught to everyone in school and is required knowledge.
> 
> Once you have the license you are on the same level with someone who's been doing it 20 years. Learning time is over then, although you still learn things. The boss will be pissed if you don't know the basics.


Right on track. I still learn new stuff all the time.

So much stuff in this trade is changing constantly, and trying to figure out the old stuff.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Plumbducky said:


> Right on track. I still learn new stuff all the time. So much stuff in this trade is changing constantly, and trying to figure out the old stuff.


 this years cutting edge stuff is old school next year. Thirty years plus years in the trade and I still find myself signing up for classes on new stuff. You can never learn to much. Sounds like a change is in order.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> this years cutting edge stuff is old school next year. Thirty years plus years in the trade and I still find myself signing up for classes on new stuff. You can never learn to much. Sounds like a change is in order.


 Older the steam heating system, more I need to learn what the dead men were doing..


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## timrath (Sep 28, 2013)

Same here 10yrs on the job and a master plumbers licence and I am always learning


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Older the steam heating system, more I need to learn what the dead men were doing..


 yes I would agree that steam is almost a dyeing art. I was the go to steam guy at the last company I worked at it was amassing what you can run into. The most interesting system I worked on was a vacuum return it was hell to start up. The biggest problem is ligature it's hard to find on old stuff.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> No way do we sub it out. leave to a diff company. But remember ur an apprentice At my job apprentices don't read prints or glue much pipe. They do apprentice work nail plates digging hold rite plates cutting pipe installing hangers ect ect. The ones that show skill I teach when I can. Teach in the truck and will even meet with them for a half day at the shop.(in paid) Teaching them code skills and answering questions. This is a good way for me to teach and pass on the trade I'm busy on site. And boss wants me to plumb not watch. So when I can I let them do ( most apprentices we have are green rite now). Later I will give them projects with in the job. But when it gets down to it if I say move il take over ur slow fukin it up ect ect ect. They move I'd ask someone to help u I'd draw isos floor plans. Lay outs ect ect I'd def find a new job Even when u get ur j card then ur a green j man. And u won't know all u need/want to know. I learn something every week We have a tradesman license in tx it's a 2 year license. And I believe 2 years isn't enuf time to learn and I do t see them as a peer or plumber. But boy they get a big head wen they get that truck. But they actually dumb down the trade I never got the tradesman but I worked for a mechanical company and here under the mech license an app can install. Gas steam hydronic condensate acr ect ect. With out any plumber on site. After a year I had my own truck and helper ... Was sorely under paid .... But was sorely un experienced I had to teach my self a lot. Or ask questions. Gc. Sparkles framers will usually answer questions and teach u some if u approach it rite


Here I do have the luxury to install sewers
And I think that trade man card is only good for residential repair or residential period

That one I do is ask question but feel no one is answering them for me at the company.

For right now I'll just ride it out this yr and if **** don't change then I'm finding a new employer 
We do got another new project on a commercial building my boss man said he will teach me the plan so we can core drill through the steel frames hopefully is a start somewhere


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

Leach713 said:


> Here I do have the luxury to install sewers
> And I think that trade man card is only good for residential repair or residential period
> 
> That one I do is ask question but feel no one is answering them for me at the company.
> ...


Pictures of the steel frame core drilling please. Thanks in advance.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Rando said:


> Pictures of the steel frame core drilling please. Thanks in advance.


Yea sound funny. I was taught you never core through the steel. If ur not sure u drill a pilot hole. Sucks when you don't and u hit a beam


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

I must have worded it wrong but I will


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## turd/hurder (Jan 15, 2014)

In my opinion stay away from the union and get with a good commercial plumbing company. I believe all service plumbers should start in New construction so they can learn to do it right and learn how the system works. I


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## turd/hurder (Jan 15, 2014)

I have 19years plumbing in Florida.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

turd/hurder said:


> In my opinion stay away from the union and get with a good commercial plumbing company. I believe all service plumbers should start in New construction so they can learn to do it right and learn how the system works. I


Who are u to say that without posting a introduction???


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## turd/hurder (Jan 15, 2014)

Iv been plumbing for 19 years in the state of florida, I was a Foreman for some of the largest commercial plumbing companies. I have ruff in schools,and high rises. Iv done industrial in the the state of Mississippi. In my experienece if you are eager to learn all you can quickly, it is best to stay away from the union and find a good commercial New construction plumbing company. And be honest and tell them you want to learn and you are a hard worker. Iv found that the old plumbers on the job are willing to teach.


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## turd/hurder (Jan 15, 2014)

I do service plumbing now


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

We'll ima stick with this company for a yr , while I do some research I really like it here but I want to learn plumbing and with the subs in the way it going to be hard


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

Haha Ruff in.


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## turd/hurder (Jan 15, 2014)

You like that


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

My dog did.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Few things when you first start know your tools and be fast to get them know where everything is in the truck make it your duty to know where fittings are ask questions at the right times don't come talk to me when I'm speaking to a home owner or a foreman lunch or when were on break or driving in the work truck or your helping me rough in are good times when you see a bathroom that's roughed in take a walk through take measures on stubs and look on how it is roughed in knowing what it looks like is good take pride in your work if I got two guys helping me rough waterlines in and you have half of what somebody's else does in terms of completed work but it looks better i would rather that then cutting it out and doing it twice take literature from fixtures controls cut sheets and read them have all your own tools as quick as you can afford them it shows your here to work this one is huge for me I hate when apprentices think my tools are theres dig like an animal and drill holes straight when I mark them not on angles and just enjoy learning


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## plumber tim (Jul 4, 2013)

I have had up to 15 apprentices on the job I'm running now at one time and I tell them all I will show you how to do something once. I do the work as I teach and they watch after that if they have any problems to ask me or another journeyman. If they don't grasp how to do the task they are back to stocking materials, fire chalking, nail plating etc. The projects we do I don't have time to teach every apprentice how to read prints learn code and etc. the project I'm running now with 192 apartments from ground rough to finish will be less than one year. I'm pointing that out because the speed these jobs are done there is not much time for teaching.


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## agonzales1981 (Mar 30, 2012)

Send me a message, we are looking for an apprentice. We do a lot of high end remodels and additions for 2-3 contractors, a lot of tunnels, service work mixed in. We do it all.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Oops I I made I took my boss word and misunderstood
We are core drilling through the cement to run our stack for the second floor


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