# 75 gallon tank vs. Tankless



## JohnnieSqueeze

Calculated demand and a house im working on needs over 12.5 gpm tankless. Which apparently means two tankless units. He currently has a 75 gallon water heater. How does a tankless with 8gpm compare to a 75 gallon tank unit? Cant find anything really online far as a chart may be concerned. 


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## Tango

I'd call a manufacturer they would know what to recommend.


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## Master Mark

its mostly going to boil down to cost..... 

unless the fool wants endless hot water in the shower 
where he can stand there all day long...... the 75 gal power vent
is what I would prefer having ...


I am having this debate right now with a customer ....


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## dhal22

I have never met an unhappy tankless water heater customer. All positive reviews and feedback. I mean performance not defects or installation issues.

What about a jetted/soaking tub? 75 might not be enough. A new customer of mine has a 4 person sized jetted tub and it's used (according to him) sometimes twice a day. 

He currently has 10-15 guests at his house for Easter weekend. Extremes? Yes, but a few dollars more and you have the extremes covered. We probably install 20+ tankless a year.


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## JohnnieSqueeze

dhal22 said:


> I have never met an unhappy tankless water heater customer. All positive reviews and feedback. I mean performance not defects or installation issues.
> 
> What about a jetted/soaking tub? 75 might not be enough. A new customer of mine has a 4 person sized jetted tub and it's used (according to him) sometimes twice a day.
> 
> He currently has 10-15 guests at his house for Easter weekend. Extremes? Yes, but a few dollars more and you have the extremes covered. We probably install 20+ tankless a year.




moving to the business lounge section id love to know your rates in your area for a tankless install 


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## Will

I'd go tankless in that range. Get a Navien 240A, get two of them if needed. 75 have gone up so much, in that range tankless makes since imo. Rheem also makes a good tankless(Paloma)


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## JohnnieSqueeze

Will said:


> I'd go tankless in that range. Get a Navien 240A, get two of them if needed. 75 have gone up so much, in that range tankless makes since imo. Rheem also makes a good tankless(Paloma)




I hate rheem


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## ShtRnsdownhill

I only install takagi tankless heaters, so far no issues, but that doesnt mean they will change design in the future, I try to stick with 1 manufacture until systemic problems occur ...and you have to look at performance and the luxury side ( unlimited hot water) before you worry about price...the guy buying a Lamborghini doesnt shop by price, he shops for performance first, thats what a tankless is..a performance heater...


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## Tango

After reading all these posts you guys all get free gas licences??? Or you did a plumbing contractor licence and another separate contractor exam for gas? What about insurance for gas? One of my boss told us it cost him 8 000$ a year for gas insurance.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Tango said:


> After reading all these posts you guys all get free gas licences??? Or you did a plumbing contractor licence and another separate contractor exam for gas? What about insurance for gas? One of my boss told us it cost him 8 000$ a year for gas insurance.



once again your country sucks :vs_laugh: ..my master licensed lets me do anything plumbing or gas and have my own business and employ people..all under just 1 license...


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## The Dane

Here I can do gas with my journeyman license (technically) meaning most bigger towns with their own inspectors has in their local code that they require you to take a gas license but that is open book and is super easy so basically just a formality. Cost was around $75 to take the test and for the first gas license and then around $30 yearly in license renewal fee. Oh yeah and buying the gas code book was another $70. That's all and to my knowledge no extra gas insurance required. 

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## Master Mark

Tango said:


> After reading all these posts you guys all get free gas licences??? Or you did a plumbing contractor licence and another separate contractor exam for gas? What about insurance for gas? One of my boss told us it cost him 8 000$ a year for gas insurance.



Canada sucks.... I cant believe you just cannot get your pipe vise out and thread yourself the black gas pipe needed to do a small home or addition....... I was threading pipe for residential homes and up to 1 1/2 back in high school, and my plumbers lisc is all I needed to do it ever since...... 

In most areas you can go to lowes and get track pipe and install the stuff yourself ----that is probably insane but they allow it....

The insurance is under your general liability for your business, and I got the extra insurance with an umbrella policy 

This is what socialism does to a country... bleed everyone with regulations and permits to wipe your own butt.....


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## Tango

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> once again your country sucks :vs_laugh: ..my master licensed lets me do anything plumbing or gas and have my own business and employ people..all under just 1 license...


That's too easy, open a cracker jack box and you get them all for free.

It was like this here back then just pay the fee. Now you have to prove you know your stuff by doing exams.


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## dhal22

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> once again your country sucks :vs_laugh: ..my master licensed lets me do anything plumbing or gas and have my own business and employ people..all under just 1 license...


Me too. I can't imagine all the red tape I hear about elsewhere with the multiple required licenses.


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## dhal22

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> moving to the business lounge section id love to know your rates in your area for a tankless install
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 going there now.


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## MASTRPLUMB

Master Mark said:


> Canada sucks.... I cant believe you just cannot get your pipe vise out and thread yourself the black gas pipe needed to do a small home or addition....... I was threading pipe for residential homes and up to 1 1/2 back in high school, and my plumbers lisc is all I needed to do it ever since......
> 
> In most areas you can go to lowes and get track pipe and install the stuff yourself ----that is probably insane but they allow it....
> 
> The insurance is under your general liability for your business, and I got the extra insurance with an umbrella policy
> 
> This is what socialism does to a country... bleed everyone with regulations and permits to wipe your own butt.....


And coming soon to AMERICA, Thanks to the Communists in Congress


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## Will

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> I hate rheem
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



What stuff from Rheem do you not like?


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## dhal22

Will said:


> What stuff from Rheem do you not like?


The glass safety vial in their tank heaters for one. Their tankless heaters are crude compared to the competition. I was brought in to finish a $5,000,000+ house and one of the first things the owner and I agreed on was to get rid of the big Rheem tankless units. They weren't working correctly so out they went. Turns out their dedicated pump can only work with a single unit. There is/was no design to handle a 2 unit package. Kind of like Rennai, always a few years behind the curve.


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## justme

dhal22 said:


> The glass safety vial in their tank heaters for one. Their tankless heaters are crude compared to the competition. I was brought in to finish a $5,000,000+ house and one of the first things the owner and I agreed on was to get rid of the big Rheem tankless units. They weren't working correctly so out they went. Turns out their dedicated pump can only work with a single unit. There is/was no design to handle a 2 unit package. Kind of like Rennai, always a few years behind the curve.



Thats not true, Rinnai has a 2,3 or 4 package system that works fine with one pump setup built into the master unit.


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## skoronesa

justme said:


> Thats not true, Rinnai has a 2,3 or 4 package system that works fine with one pump setup built into the master unit.



He said rheem not rinnai.






.


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## justme

skoronesa said:


> He said rheem not rinnai.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



He definitely said Rinnai at the bottom of his post. Rinnai has a very good. setup compared to the others on the market.


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## dhal22

justme said:


> Thats not true, Rinnai has a 2,3 or 4 package system that works fine with one pump setup built into the master unit.


Skoronesa is correct, talking about Rheem. However, they are both always a few years behind the curve.


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## Tango

MEngi-Mike said:


> ERASED


Post a real intro within the next 12 hours or you will be terminated.


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## ShtRnsdownhill




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## ShtRnsdownhill




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## Tango

Deadline has passed. He has been *TERMINATED*


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## dhal22

justme said:


> He definitely said Rinnai at the bottom of his post. Rinnai has a very good. setup compared to the others on the market.


Yes, Rennai is one of the brands that were/are a few years behind the curve. All major brands have multi unit cascading but I left concentric vented control panel hanging on a nail brands years ago.


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## wyrickmech

There is a tankless that has a rating of 15 gpm but it is pricey. Look up intellahot.


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## dhal22

Eternal was rated at 18 gpm.


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## justme

GPM don't mean **** until you look at the temperature rise chart that correlates to the GPM stated.


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## dhal22

justme said:


> GPM don't mean **** until you look at the temperature rise chart that correlates to the GPM stated.


How could it not? Operating side by side a 5 gpm model vs an 11 gpm model (using the same incoming water temp), gpm certainly make a difference.

No offense but everybody knows temperature rise makes a difference. The great thing about living in the south is that it's not a huge concern.


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## justme

dhal22 said:


> How could it not? Operating side by side a 5 gpm model vs an 11 gpm model (using the same incoming water temp), gpm certainly make a difference.
> 
> No offense but everybody knows temperature rise makes a difference. The great thing about living in the south is that it's not a huge concern.


Devils advocate , see what I did down there . Which is more? Temperature rise makes ALL the difference. If all things are equal then gpm is gpm. 


5 gpm with 65 degree rise, at this temperature rise you will be fine anywhere in the south

11 gpm with a 35 degree rise, at this temperature rise you won't be bathing in 120 degree water during the winter or fall anywhere.


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## dhal22

temperature rise makes no difference if your water has been cut off. You install a 5 gpm unit in your 8 bedroom house and i as your neighbor will install three 11gpm units in my 8 bedroom house and let's both have houses full for thanksgiving. Now does gpm make a difference? 

Not trying to be an ass but bigger is better.


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## justme

dhal22 said:


> temperature rise makes no difference if your water has been cut off. You install a 5 gpm unit in your 8 bedroom house and i as your neighbor will install three 11gpm units in my 8 bedroom house and let's both have houses full for thanksgiving. Now does gpm make a difference?
> 
> Not trying to be an ass but bigger is better.


Depends on manufacturer and how honest they are with their 11 gpm claim at 35 degree temperature rise versus another manufacturer that states their heater will do 5 gpm with a 65 degree temperature rise. It's all in the temperature rise charts.


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## dhal22

What about brands that throttle the water to bring the water up to the requested temp vs brands that let the water pass through unthrottled?


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## dhal22

justme said:


> It's all in the temperature rise charts.


Now we agree.


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## justme

dhal22 said:


> What about brands that throttle the water to bring the water up to the requested temp vs brands that let the water pass through unthrottled?


 That goes back to the manufacturer and deceptive practices unless it is upfront.


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## dhal22

It's a design difference. You can choke the water until you get your desired temp (but less gpm) or let the water pass through full port (but lower temp). That is a designer's decision.


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## justme

dhal22 said:


> It's a design difference. You can choke the water until you get your desired temp (but less gpm) or let the water pass through full port (but lower temp). That is a designer's decision.


I agree with you to a point, if it is not disclosed upfront then in my opinion it is deceptive. Especially to a normal home owner customer that doesn't know what we know as Plumbers.


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## dhal22

I would not think either approach would ever be an issue if you oversize the package. We have 2 and 3 heaters in some larger homes.


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## czplumbing

75 Gal Power vent will not be enough for 12 GPM . Tankless Navien is the way to go.


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## dhal22

czplumbing said:


> 75 Gal Power vent will not be enough for 12 GPM . Tankless Navien is the way to go.


Love the big Naviens. So do the customers. I keep at least one in stock at my shop, sometimes 2.


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