# AO Smith vs Bradford White water heaters



## plumberkc

I'm considering switching to Bradford White after installing around 600 AO Smith water heaters over the last two years.

I was a factory service provider for AO Smith until I finally got fed up with unpaid invoices. They will not let you perform the warranty work on a tank your company installed without a homeowner's calls. It seems like a real lack of trust on their end, frustrating when I have spent over $100,000 on their tanks this year alone.










I like that Bradford White still manufactures their water heaters in the US for several reasons: quality. These are all aesthetic issues, but I consistently see crooked nipples, crooked TP's, gas valves, and poorly placed stickers.

What is everybody's opinion here? Are you experiencing any problems with AO Smith? Is Bradford White any better?


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## OpenSights

I won't install a Smith unless it's customer provided and there's no warranty. I like Bradford White, but my Master got into a lawsuit with Fergs (the only ones who sell them here) so we install Leakinvor or Ruud.

In my humble opinion, Smith is garbage now. Unfortunate, because almost all 25+y/o heaters are Smith.


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## plumberkc

I'm not so much wanting to get into the argument of which one is more reliable or which or lasts longer, I've installed enough of each to form my own opinion. I also think it varies with region. 

More interested in feedback on contractor relations. Is it just me or has AO Smith gotten so big that they don't care about the little guy? I mean what are you going to do... switch to State?? American?? Kenmore?? Either way they get your money. I also think less of them for selling to Whirlpool. 


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## Toli

AO smith can kiss my ass. Tired of their chit.


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## plumberkc

Toli said:


> AO smith can kiss my ass. Tired of their chit.




That's about where I'm at right now. 


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## hroark2112

My biggest peeve with Bradford White is the screwed up warranty rules they have. If I find a leaking BW water heater, I have to go to the store who sold it, and even then they usually won't give me a replacement unless I am the original installer. The bad part is that not all of the companies that do new construction homes around here do service, so they won't do the replacement anyway.

I end up having to call their 800 number and beg someone to speak to the wholesaler to let me have a replacement heater. Sorry but I hate to grovel to get a new heater.


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## MDservices

I've never installed an AO SMITH hot water tank but I have installed their boilers before and I always felt like they were a bit cheap to be honest. It felt like they were lagging behind some of the other competition out there.

For hot water tanks, I like Rheem/Ruud and bradford white myself. Never had an issue with the bardford white and what I like is here, only a contractor can purchase a bradford white.


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## Master Mark

when smith moved to mexico back in 1996 their product went to hell... I dont see their air intakes on the bottom being any better than the Whirlpool units..... they will clog up with lint fast... The reason the smiths look so sloppy is because they got some cross-eyed mexicans putting them together across the border... they dont care at all..... 

Kc...now what you do with that cock-eyed nipple is to tighten down that female adaptor then heat the pipe above it till its cherry red and then bend the copper to make it look straight....... 

I dont think the Bradfords quality is any better either... They wont clog up with lint but will only last on average 5 years in our region. I am changeing out 2 electric Bradfords this week that are barely under 6 years old... one old lady is giving me fits about it and thinks I should do it for free...... I got away from Bradfords back in 2009-10 when they came out with the ICON valve and I am glad that I did ..... I should finally be out of the 6 year warranty thing real soon and wont have to deal with it any longer

The Rheem brand has been the best quality in our region. They seem to last about 10+ years all the time with no service to them.... At least in my region they have been the most reliable.......very rarely have we had to do a service warranty replacement on one....


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## plumberkc

I'm not even considering Rheem. You are paying for the added customer service time from the DIY'ers, not to mention all the returned tanks. 

I like to point them in that direction whenever I get a call about a Rheem that they just installed themself that isn't working right. "You probably got a bad tank and need to return it to the store and demand a labor payout for wasting your time."

Problem is there is only 3 companies and one of them sold out to the box store. When one has a price increase, they all have a price increase. 

How is AO Smith not considered a monopoly? They need to be broken back up and brought back to the US.




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## BC73RS

Been installing Bradford White for the 4 years, no complaits and I'm not looking back.


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## plbgbiz

AO Smith might last longer in some instances but I haven't seen that locally. Water and usage affect that more than the tank ever could.

But at least BWC tanks stay lit longer than a year. Faulty design by AO Smith keeps me away from them.


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## plumberkc

plbgbiz said:


> AO Smith might last longer in some instances but I haven't seen that locally. Water and usage affect that more than the tank ever could.
> 
> But at least BWC tanks stay lit longer than a year. Faulty design by AO Smith keeps me away from them.




As mentioned , not interested in debating that. Current callback rate for either brand is less than .5% with a sample of over 600 AO's. 


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## Eddy k

Crooked hot and cold nipples all the time on AO Smith


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## Master Mark

plbgbiz said:


> AO Smith might last longer in some instances but I haven't seen that locally. Water and usage affect that more than the tank ever could.
> 
> But at least BWC tanks stay lit longer than a year. Faulty design by AO Smith keeps me away from them.



You are 200% right about that... the smiths have basically the same screen under them as the Whirlpools and they simply wont last long in a lint infested home.........

At least the bradfords dont fade out after 12 months, even though in our area we are only getting about 5 1/2 years out of them....

Rheems from home depot have a better air intake design than the smiths..

...


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## GAN

When I was still in the field the company I worked for used Bradford White period.


Kind of off the subject here, but the nipples on the heater shown, are you using them as an example? 
Reason I am asking is no di-electric unions or at least brass unions on the steel nipples.


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## Master Mark

GAN said:


> When I was still in the field the company I worked for used Bradford White period.
> 
> 
> Kind of off the subject here, but the nipples on the heater shown, are you using them as an example?
> Reason I am asking is no di-electric unions or at least brass unions on the steel nipples.



they are dialectric nipples and you dont need to use the unions on top of them... usually the unioins just rust out and corrode shut anyway..... 

I prefer to install flex connectors to the nipples ....:laughing:


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## GAN

Well I will say foul on the "Di-electric" nipples. These are heat traps. When the galvanized threads are exposed and connected directly to copper there is your galvanic response waiting to happen.

Here is an excerpt from an A.O. Smith installation instructions. Granted you have FIP as well as MIP connections, but the MIP with the plastic on the interior does not isolate the threads. Yep I agree Di-Electric unions rust up right at the heater. We always tried to us brass unions on the nipples.


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## dhal22

Master Mark said:


> when smith moved to mexico back in 1996 their product went to hell...




I was at the AO Smith/ State factory a couple of years ago and I saw 100's of AO Smith heaters rolling off the assembly line. 40's, 50's, commercial grade. Their warehouse of finished heaters is immense.


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## plumberkc

Nearly all of the tanks with dielectric unions are 90% blocked by the time they are replaced. 


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## Master Mark

been hitting it hard on water heaters since thrusday... dont know what has happenned unless its just the change in the water temps.... did 3 on thrudsay, 3 on friday one on satruday and one today.... got 3 for monday 

all them good Rheem units going in :thumbup::thumbup:

when it rains it pours


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## plumberkc

Master Mark said:


> all them good Rheem units going in :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> when it rains it pours



Way to show support to the one major water heater manufacturer to totally sell out to Home Depot.




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## plumberkc

Maybe you don't realize this but you are financing the Rheem customer service call centers that are being overloaded with DIY & handyman erroneous installations. 

At least once a month I get a phone call about a Rheem water heater that the HO just installed but isn't working right. I tell them they probably got a bad tank and need to take the whole thing back. I also let them know they are entitled to a labor payout for the hassle. 

I'm not sure why you are so loyal to Rheem, I have documented proof that they don't last as long as Bradford White or AO Smith. Maybe you are eager to get the repeat business when they fail early. 


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## dhal22

I had 1 of the Rheem glass safety vials pop on me during a late friday afternoon install a few years ago and never installed another rheem.


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## plbgbiz

EVERY major plumbing manufacturer sells their widgets at the box stores and hardware stores. As does EVERY major electrical manufacturer. What makes Rheem any worse than Wolverine, SquareD, Kohler, American Standard, BrassCraft, Moen, and Dearborn?


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## plumberkc

plbgbiz said:


> EVERY major plumbing manufacturer sells their widgets at the box stores and hardware stores. As does EVERY major electrical manufacturer. What makes Rheem any worse than Wolverine, SquareD, Kohler, American Standard, BrassCraft, Moen, and Dearborn?




Widgets and Water Heaters are not the same.

A Water heater is much more expensive than a brass craft shutoff so it's worth paying attention to. 

Gas water heaters should be installed by professionals. I believe that Bradford White and AO Smith also feel that way which is why I give them my business. 



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## Toli

plumberkc said:


> Widgets and Water Heaters are not the same.
> 
> 
> Gas water heaters should be installed by professionals. I believe that Bradford White and AO Smith also feel that way which is why I give them my business.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I wish I could agree with those manufacturers wanting their products be installed by professionals. All they care about is moving product. They don't give a **** about you or I or the homeowner. 

Quite frankly, I wouldn't care if I never got a call for a water heater again.


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## dhal22

​


Toli said:


> I wish I could agree with those manufacturers wanting their products be installed by professionals. All they care about is moving product. They don't give a **** about you or I or the homeowner.
> 
> Quite frankly, I wouldn't care if I never got a call for a water heater again.


I don't know about that, heaters are a large part of our revenue.


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## Toli

dhal22 said:


> ​
> 
> 
> I don't know about that, heaters are a large part of our revenue.




The market around here is packed with guys selling 40-gal nat gas for $6-700. I'm tired of fighting that uphill battle. 

I'm tired of no one stocking parts (so that means I have to). I'm tired of reps lying to me.


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## plbgbiz

plumberkc said:


> Widgets and Water Heaters are not the same.
> 
> A Water heater is much more expensive than a brass craft shutoff so it's worth paying attention to.
> 
> Gas water heaters should be installed by professionals. I believe that Bradford White and AO Smith also feel that way which is why I give them my business.


I appreciate your passion and reasons. But your loyalty to AO Smith may be a little misguided. They own American, and by extension the lion's share of all water heaters sold in the retail world. Putting AO Smith on a pedestal above the others is equivalent to worshiping a pinata. 

AO Smith is doing more to abandon licensed Plumbers and encourage unsafe water heater installations than anyone. They manufacture brands like US Craftmaster, Whirlpool, etc.


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## dhal22

Toli said:


> The market around here is packed with guys selling 40-gal nat gas for $6-700. I'm tired of fighting that uphill battle.
> 
> I'm tired of no one stocking parts (so that means I have to). I'm tired of reps lying to me.


We are more than double that ($1500+/-) and rarely service existing water heaters. We might replace a part 2 or 3 times a year. There's no money in it.


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## dhal22

plbgbiz said:


> I appreciate your passion and reasons. But your loyalty to AO Smith may be a little misguided. They own American, and by extension the lion's share of all water heaters sold in the retail world. Putting AO Smith on a pedestal above the others is equivalent to worshiping a pinata.
> 
> AO Smith is doing more to abandon licensed Plumbers and encourage unsafe water heater installations than anyone. They manufacture brands like US Craftmaster, Whirlpool, etc.


Go to their factory and just watch the same heater sprayed a different paint color and different stickers/ logos put on them.


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## plumberkc

plbgbiz said:


> I appreciate your passion and reasons. But your loyalty to AO Smith may be a little misguided. They own American, and by extension the lion's share of all water heaters sold in the retail world. Putting AO Smith on a pedestal above the others is equivalent to worshiping a pinata.
> 
> AO Smith is doing more to abandon licensed Plumbers and encourage unsafe water heater installations than anyone. They manufacture brands like US Craftmaster, Whirlpool, etc.




Don't think that Lowe's isn't lobbying for AO to put their name in their stores. Whirlpool has a crap reputation because of DIY installs. Nobody wants a Whirlpool and nobody here will repair them. 

I didn't have a problem with Rheem when they made the GE tanks in the box stores. I agree that AO Smith isn't all that much better. Bradford White is certainly the best company IMO. Made in America and they don't sell out the the box store. I have been thinking about switching back for those two reasons. 




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## plumberkc

Toli said:


> The market around here is packed with guys selling 40-gal nat gas for $6-700. I'm tired of fighting that uphill battle.
> 
> I'm tired of no one stocking parts (so that means I have to). I'm tired of reps lying to me.




These two problems resolved each other. Don't repair it if you didn't install it. Only stock parts for the tanks you install and use that as a selling point. 

I used to worry about losing on price. I realize that lowering my price $100 or even $200 for friends doesn't necessarily increase my close rate. The guys saying they install for $7** are up probably aggressively up charging. 

Today I replaced a tank that a lowball competitor installed 3 months ago. The tank was leaking gas and was backdrafting carbon monoxide inside the house. If people are willing to jeopardize the safety of their families to save a few hundred dollars then you don't need them as customers. 




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## Toli

plumberkc said:


> These two problems resolved each other. Don't repair it if you didn't install it. Only stock parts for the tanks you install and use that as a selling point.
> 
> I used to worry about losing on price. I realize that lowering my price $100 or even $200 for friends doesn't necessarily increase my close rate. The guys saying they install for $7** are up probably aggressively up charging.
> 
> Today I replaced a tank that a lowball competitor installed 3 months ago. The tank was leaking gas and was backdrafting carbon monoxide inside the house. If people are willing to jeopardize the safety of their families to save a few hundred dollars then you don't need them as customers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I generally don't service much that I don't install, but it does happen. 

I'm not going to lower my price. If someone else wants to work for wages they can knock themselves out. I'm not doing this for practice.

Another thing- We've replaced a whopping 58 WH's this year to date. 6 are warranty replacements. Mostly BW's, a few AO's. That's too high of a replacement rate, IMO.

If you guys can close heaters at a high rate at a price you want, I respect that. I really do. But I'm not putting much effort into it anymore. I have other things that are more profitable to concentrate on.


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## GAN

plumberkc said:


> Today I replaced a tank that a lowball competitor installed 3 months ago. The tank was leaking gas and was backdrafting carbon monoxide inside the house. If people are willing to jeopardize the safety of their families to save a few hundred dollars then you don't need them as customers.
> 
> sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What did you find on the back drafting issue?

I have seen old unlined chimneys allowing vent gases to cool to fast and barometric differences, no minimum 1' vertical rise before going horizontal, to long a horizontal run with natural gas cause this.

The best one I ever had was on a new home about 15 years ago. Vent had enough rise, piped into a properly sized class B vent, better than 12" above the lowest point on the roof for the termination. Unfinished basement with enough open space so it was not a confined space.

The original installer had replaced one because the plastic around the water inlet & outlet had melted, it did the same on the second heater. I got called out and went over everything it all looked good.

One thing i noticed was with the basement door open when the furnace blower fan kicked on it sucked the door shut. HVAC contractor went over manual J & D so the system was sized correctly.

Finally added one combustion exterior air intake piped near the heater, still had issues. Added a second combustion air exterior intake near the heater high and it stopped. Finally thought the owner was involved in his home construction and had sealed the home envelope so tight when the furnace kicked on it was sucking air in for combustion form anyplace it could.

Now fast forward to current, Illinois made a public act which requires all new homes & commercial buildings are required to comply with the energy code. Homes must be tested to achieve a maximum of 5 air exchanges an hour. In doing this whole house ventilation is required to be installed, which will guard against a dwelling being to tight without relief.


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## plumberkc

Edit: wrong thread

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## klempner

cant stand the icon valve. which only leaves Rheem. have never had a problem with the glass vial that wasn't caused by overheating (flue blocked). which is to say, replacing the glass vial never solves the problem, for me. have to figure out why it broke. Have never had glass vial break on any of the 100+ that i have installed. I have not found BW to be better than the others. Not worse, but not better. and LOTs of icon problems. BW here charges to use the warranty, and they will not mail parts. trip to supply house. Rheem and AOS will overnight, second day, or regular ship fairly cheap. trip to supply house is much more expensive than overnight shipping. not impugning or defending any of them. but i can't stand the icon valve. have customers that are now on their third icon valve in less than 6 years.


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## mtfallsmikey

OpenSights said:


> I won't install a Smith unless it's customer provided and there's no warranty. I like Bradford White, but my Master got into a lawsuit with Fergs (the only ones who sell them here) so we install Leakinvor or Ruud.
> 
> In my humble opinion, Smith is garbage now. Unfortunate, because almost all 25+y/o heaters are Smith.


 When I worked for Dad, (say...30+ yrs. ago) we installed Smith's primarily, they were the Cadillac of water heaters, we were changing out Smith's back then that had galvanized tanks and wraparound elements.


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## mtfallsmikey

dhal22 said:


> Go to their factory and just watch the same heater sprayed a different paint color and different stickers/ logos put on them.


 Probably made in the same old State plant in Tn.


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## Master Mark

klempner said:


> cant stand the icon valve. which only leaves Rheem. have never had a problem with the glass vial that wasn't caused by overheating (flue blocked). which is to say, replacing the glass vial never solves the problem, for me. have to figure out why it broke. Have never had glass vial break on any of the 100+ that i have installed. I have not found BW to be better than the others. Not worse, but not better. and LOTs of icon problems. BW here charges to use the warranty, and they will not mail parts. trip to supply house. Rheem and AOS will overnight, second day, or regular ship fairly cheap. trip to supply house is much more expensive than overnight shipping. not impugning or defending any of them. but i can't stand the icon valve. have customers that are now on their third icon valve in less than 6 years.



We got a huge bucket of them ICONS laying around mostly from leaking bradfords that are 6+ years old... I have been keeping the thermopiles for some reason...
The Icons are crappy and are really sub standard to even the honeywell valve you see on the Rheem heaters in Home deopt..... 

I am very glad that I dropped that line back in 2010-11.... when they came out with that valve thinking it was gonna revolutionize the market


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## Master Mark

*a.o. smith Vertex junk*

We got to change out this piece of junk next week


this will be the 3rd vertex the people have gone through since
2012.. quality product


check out the geyser coming out of the vent port at the bottom of the unit

https://goo.gl/photos/CZYewAXt51zULfd6A


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## OpenSights

Master Mark said:


> We got to change out this piece of junk next week
> 
> 
> this will be the 3rd vertex the people have gone through since
> 2012.. quality product
> 
> 
> check out the geyser coming out of the vent port at the bottom of the unit
> 
> https://goo.gl/photos/CZYewAXt51zULfd6A


I haven't seen one of those yet. Had a wired one the other day that I've never seen before. You know a lot about heaters. A good customer of mine called me about a replacement he gave me some way wrong info. I didn't recognize the brand but it turned out to be a power vent that vented out the side of the motor not the top. Told them their only options are electric or on demand. On demand is really a no go without an iron curtain and major whole house filters. Picked up the heater yesterday and 15 minutes after getting home he calls and cancels wanting to get other opinions.

They're not big money, run a daycare out of their house, so no hurt feelings here.


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## indyjim

Master Mark said:


> We got to change out this piece of junk next week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this will be the 3rd vertex the people have gone through since
> 
> 2012.. quality product
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> check out the geyser coming out of the vent port at the bottom of the unit
> 
> 
> 
> https://goo.gl/photos/CZYewAXt51zULfd6A




I've had 1 in 20 fail. The one was right before warranty was over. 
Do they have aggressive water?


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## Mattguyver

We install rheem but i probably do more random tanks from customers. Anyways, quality just sucks on most. The crooked nipples for hot and cold are ridiculous. I don't use flex connectors because we have chloramine in our water and it really eats the rubber. But how do you make these crappy tanks look good.


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## Mattguyver

indyjim said:


> I've had 1 in 20 fail. The one was right before warranty was over.
> Do they have aggressive water?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ive replaced two of these recently same exact symptom. Tanks were 8 years old


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## Master Mark

Mattguyver said:


> We install rheem but i probably do more random tanks from customers. Anyways, quality just sucks on most. The crooked nipples for hot and cold are ridiculous. I don't use flex connectors because we have chloramine in our water and it really eats the rubber. But how do you make these crappy tanks look good.



I had to get away from those brass craft rubber connectors about 3 years ago due to aggressive water and now I use the brass craft SS flex connectors .....The SS conectors are light years better ........

We are having fits with the bradfords and it seems the Smiths are actually a turning out to be a better brand in this mid west region ......

the Rheems seem to last the most longest for us....

I guess this VERTEX could have aggressive water but they do have a water softener which should tame it down somewhat......

basically , I just think the Vertex is a peice of junk...

I made a loop in the line last thursday and we are gonna
go get one and replace it for them under warranty.... but its
still gonna cost them 675+for my time and paperwork:yes::yes:


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## sparky

Master Mark said:


> I had to get away from those brass craft rubber connectors about 3 years ago due to aggressive water and now I use the brass craft SS flex connectors .....The SS conectors are light years better ........
> 
> We are having fits with the bradfords and it seems the Smiths are actually a turning out to be a better brand in this mid west region ......
> 
> the Rheems seem to last the most longest for us....
> 
> I guess this VERTEX could have aggressive water but they do have a water softener which should tame it down somewhat......
> 
> basically , I just think the Vertex is a peice of junk...
> 
> I made a loop in the line last thursday and we are gonna
> go get one and replace it for them under warranty.... but its
> still gonna cost them 675+for my time and paperwork:yes::yes:


Bradford white has gone down in last few yrs,gas and electric,this year alone I had 2 natural gas Bradford whites that would not stay lit,first one I changed out,second one I replaced icon valve with a new one along with the pilot assembly,but they are still junkkkkkk


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## Master Mark

INDYJIM...I've had 1 in 20 fail. The one was right before warranty was over. 
Do they have aggressive water?



we changed out that Vertex last week and was surprised to 
discover that the new unit was completely re-designed from the older one and it needed an air intake 

It appears that the original plumber installed the old unit
using the exhaust vent for the unit also as its air intake...and the other plumber has changed out 2 of them already.. :blink::blink:
Maybe I am wrong about this but it looked like a mistake to me....

We thought that maybe the pipe had a dual liner inside the pvc pipe but it did not .....perhaps this is why the 
VERTEX unit has gone out twice on them already???:yes:

This was my first vertex and I was not aware of the need for the extra air intake until we tangled with this pig...we had to remove the cabinets on the side wall just to get the new one installed half way properly...

you can see that the gas control and fan motor are both on the top of the newer unit.... ..

INDYJIM....do you know if this newer unit is an upgrade from 
an earlier model and they have added a separate
intake to make it work properly..... Did the older units require an air intake to the outside of the house......??

Inquireing minds want to know...

Thanks



https://goo.gl/photos/aAMsUo9ZpAG5EVKC8


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## sparky

Master Mark said:


> INDYJIM...I've had 1 in 20 fail. The one was right before warranty was over.
> Do they have aggressive water?
> 
> 
> 
> we changed out that Vertex last week and was surprised to
> discover that the new unit was completely re-designed from the older one and it needed an air intake
> 
> It appears that the original plumber installed the old unit
> using the exhaust vent for the unit also as its air intake...and the other plumber has changed out 2 of them already.. :blink::blink:
> Maybe I am wrong about this but it looked like a mistake to me....
> 
> We thought that maybe the pipe had a dual liner inside the pvc pipe but it did not .....perhaps this is why the
> VERTEX unit has gone out twice on them already???:yes:
> 
> This was my first vertex and I was not aware of the need for the extra air intake until we tangled with this pig...we had to remove the cabinets on the side wall just to get the new one installed half way properly...
> 
> you can see that the gas control and fan motor are both on the top of the newer unit.... ..
> 
> INDYJIM....do you know if this newer unit is an upgrade from
> an earlier model and they have added a separate
> intake to make it work properly..... Did the older units require an air intake to the outside of the house......??
> 
> Inquireing minds want to know...
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> https://goo.gl/photos/aAMsUo9ZpAG5EVKC8


that looks like a junky icon valve just to the left of that vertex,now i know why you beat the crap outta them with channellocks.i wasted so much time with these junky valves and pilot ass.i also have never fooled with these new fangled water heaters like this vertex,seems like alot more to them but really just a larger piece of junk that only a computer nerd could work on.


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## Master Mark

sparky said:


> that looks like a junky icon valve just to the left of that vertex,now i know why you beat the crap outta them with channellocks.i wasted so much time with these junky valves and pilot ass.i also have never fooled with these new fangled water heaters like this vertex,seems like alot more to them but really just a larger piece of junk that only a computer nerd could work on.



I should have taken a picture of the mess of stuff on top of that new Vertex...but I did not think of it at the time.... If any water were to spray down on those controls from above the heater is fried.... No real cover for the wireing on the top of it.......

I tried to talk them into a 75 gallon power vent but because they got this thing warrantied out we had to go with it...


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## plumberkc

sparky said:


> Bradford white has gone down in last few yrs,gas and electric,this year alone I had 2 natural gas Bradford whites that would not stay lit,first one I changed out,second one I replaced icon valve with a new one along with the pilot assembly,but they are still junkkkkkk




You probably have an environmental issue causing backdrafting but you just want to replace parts. 


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## plumberkc

Bradford White is the only company that specifies their product should only be installed by plumbers. 

All BW tanks are made in the US. 

Bottom of BW tank is solid which allow for leveling without bypassing the air filter. 

Manufacturing of BW is cleaner. Nipples and valves are square and stickers lay flat. 

If you buy AO Smith or Rheem you are enabling them to sell out the box stores. 




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## sparky

plumberkc said:


> You probably have an environmental issue causing backdrafting but you just want to replace parts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No backdrafting issues,I removed the vent completely and they still would not stay lit,crappy icon valve and pilot assembly's,all water heaters are made cheaper these days,no matter the brand,companies want to make a cheaper product and sell it for maximum profit.there is no difference in water heaters these days,you are gonna get about 6yrs out of electric ones and maybe 10 out of gas once you get it going and replacing the pilot ass or gas valve or both


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## Master Mark

plumberkc said:


> Bradford White is the only company that specifies their product should only be installed by plumbers.
> 
> All BW tanks are made in the US.
> 
> Bottom of BW tank is solid which allow for leveling without bypassing the air filter.
> 
> Manufacturing of BW is cleaner. Nipples and valves are square and stickers lay flat.
> 
> If you buy AO Smith or Rheem you are enabling them to sell out the box stores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I Have not seen you here lately... Are you now installing the Bradfords>>?? I thought you were totally sold on A>O. Smiths?/ 

The ICON sucks but everyone is entitled to their opinion.. I suggest you keep a couple of ICON repair boxes in your truck at all times if you are doing them exclusively now.... 

We are finally over the hump with the Bradfords and have not had any more warranty issues with them .... Not installed them since the ICONS came out in 2010 and now we are in the clear...

No one has answered my venting question on the Vertex yet ....you got any answers on it??
...


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## sparky

Master Mark said:


> I Have not seen you here lately... Are you now installing the Bradfords>>?? I thought you were totally sold on A>O. Smiths?/
> 
> The ICON sucks but everyone is entitled to their opinion.. I suggest you keep a couple of ICON repair boxes in your truck at all times if you are doing them exclusively now....
> 
> We are finally over the hump with the Bradfords and have not had any more warranty issues with them .... Not installed them since the ICONS came out in 2010 and now we are in the clear...
> 
> No one has answered my venting question on the Vertex yet ....you got any answers on it??
> ...


I have no idea,but would like to know also


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## plumberkc

Yes I got away from AO Smith. Got tired of them treating the contractors like garbage. I have had good luck with both brands but some of the newer AO Smith tanks have been failing early. They made some great tanks but now are pushing out some cheap models to compete on price. What used to be labeled and sold as Whirlpool now has the AO Smith name and is sold in Lowes. 




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## plumberkc

As for the Vertex, my money is on the softener. There was also a commercial version of that tank that had similar failures over 10 years. Ended up having a bad gas regulator on the main. 


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## indyjim

All the vertex heaters I've installed just had the exhaust off the top of the fan. They have all had that goofy pipe you have to install. 


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## indyjim

I have yet to install one you have pictured. 


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