# Question about CPVC caps



## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

2 years ago I capped off a water line in a customers basement with a cpvc cap on a 3/4" line. This past June the customer was in hospital having heart surgery and came home to a flooded basement. He called another plumber? to repair it and other "plumber"? told him the cap was not code? The cap did not blow off the line but the end of the cap broke/blew off? I have not seen pictures, this was told to my wife by the customer. Anyway, I get a letter from their insurance saying I owe $54,000 because it was our fault.
I have never heard nor seen that glue on caps were against code? Any help is appreciated! We use IPC here....


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I have never heard of such a thing. I will research the IPC today, but I would think it is a product failure. 

Do you have 1 year warranty on your invoice? This is 2 years ago, its outta warranty and on top of that it sounds like a product failure.


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks Bizzy,
I had 90 day warranty on invoice so I think I am covered there! I looked thru the code and did not see any mention of glue caps being prohibited. I would bet a $$MILLION$$ it was a sorry Handi-Hack that told them that! I guess insurance companies think I am responsible for materials that are made in China?


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Plumbergeek said:


> Thanks Bizzy,
> I had 90 day warranty on invoice so I think I am covered there! I looked thru the code and did not see any mention of glue caps being prohibited. I would bet a $$MILLION$$ it was a sorry Handi-Hack that told them that! I guess insurance companies think I am responsible for materials that are made in China?


 
90 day warranty is a great idea. I try to buy the best I can, but still hate having to provide a warranty.


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

It's tough having to warranty stuff these days due to the inferior quality of the products we have to use! I want to only use USA products but we all know how that's working out.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I am not aware of anything that prohibits CPVC caps but I don't use it so there may be something out there. Subrogation cases are becoming much more popular as the economy get's tougher. Warranties are only as good as the legal system in your State. In some States the plumber could still be found responsible for up to 10-years. As for inferior materials, yes you are responsible for inferior materials if you supplied and/or installed them.

Now that it's over you need to go into damage control. Turn the claim into your insurance company immediately. I have a friend who ignored what he felt was a frivolous lawsuit so he lost by default. After the fact, he went to his insurance company and they refused the claim because they were not given the opportunity to defend the case.

The sooner you tell your insurance company the sooner they can hire an Attorney and Expert for you. They will make sure the evidence is preserved and your rights are protected. Many times, once an Expert gets in there they find other issues which contributed to the failure. If it was defective material they may cross-complain against the material manufacturer.

I do not work on the East coast much but I am willing to help you anyway you want. Even if you just need a phone call to better understand the process or to share some photos.

Good luck - Mark


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

ToUtahNow said:


> I am not aware of anything that prohibits CPVC caps but I don't use it so there may be something out there. Subrogation cases are becoming much more popular as the economy get's tougher. Warranties are only as good as the legal system in your State. In some States the plumber could still be found responsible for up to 10-years. As for inferior materials, yes you are responsible for inferior materials if you supplied and/or installed them.
> 
> Now that it's over you need to go into damage control. Turn the claim into your insurance company immediately. I have a friend who ignored what he felt was a frivolous lawsuit so he lost by default. After the fact, he went to his insurance company and they refused the claim because they were not given the opportunity to defend the case.
> 
> ...


 
Crap, Mark, your always so full of good info! So, even with the 1 year warranty limitation, we can still be liable? Even if we put no warranty? So its always best just to turn it over to insurance?

Thats just not cool, as the materials we use get more expensive and crappier! Our trade has such a high risk for libility claims.

I had a customer call the other day, she said she flushed her second story toilet and 7 hours later realized it was overflow from the TANK and flooded her second and lower story house. they pulled the toilet, the drywall, floor, everything, her insurance company wants a licensed plumber to go and inspect the toilet and write a report as to what happened.

I refused the job becuase the toilet is sitting in the garage, I have no way of knowing what happened to it and no way of field testing it, they refused tolet me re-install it. I personnaly have not had a fill valve break in such a way that the hush tube couldnt handle the overflow, the whole thing would of had to break at the shaft inside the tank.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Warranties are a feel good thing that makes both the plumber and the customer feel warm and fuzzy. However, once someone has an expensive loss, by default you end up dealing with the State statutes of limitations. The chances of being involved are really low but that's who I defend every day.

As for the water closet, an educated _guess_ tells me they probably had excessive pressure in the home. Sometimes there is no way to tell what the mechanism of the failure was and that's all you can report. I was out on one last year where the tub was sitting in the driveway and they wanted me to say it flooded the second floor. My answer was simply, I told them their _guess_ was as good as mine.

Mark


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

ToUtahNow said:


> Warranties are a feel good thing that makes both the plumber and the customer feel warm and fuzzy. However, once someone has an expensive loss, by default you end up dealing with the State statutes of limitations. The chances of being involved are really low but that's who I defend every day.
> 
> As for the water closet, an educated _guess_ tells me they probably had excessive pressure in the home. Sometimes there is no way to tell what the mechanism of the failure was and that's all you can report. I was out on one last year where the tub was sitting in the driveway and they wanted me to say it flooded the second floor. My answer was simply, I told them their _guess_ was as good as mine.
> 
> Mark



That's what I told her, I passed on the job because I would probably be writing down her story on my invoice. I had no way of figuring out for myself with her toilet in the garage. Unless of course the fill valve was broken in 1/2 in the tank. Just didn't pay enough for me to get involved. not all money is good money


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks for the sobering info Mark! :thumbup:
We had planned to turn it over to our insurance company tomorrow morning.
How should we handle warranty now considering we can be held liable for everything? Put on invoice we are not responsible for material _or_ _workmanship_? Or would it even matter, if we could be sued regardless........:furious:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> Crap, Mark, your always so full of good info! So, even with the 1 year warranty limitation, we can still be liable? Even if we put no warranty? So its always best just to turn it over to insurance?
> 
> Thats just not cool, as the materials we use get more expensive and crappier! Our trade has such a high risk for libility claims.
> 
> ...


My x-wife had her toilet tank over flow. If I remember correctly it only got as high as the flush handle and ran out of there for awhile. Never heard of it happening until then. Never thought it was possible.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Plumbergeek said:


> 2 years ago I capped off a water line in a customers basement with a cpvc cap on a 3/4" line. This past June the customer was in hospital having heart surgery and came home to a flooded basement. He called another plumber? to repair it and other "plumber"? told him the cap was not code? The cap did not blow off the line but the end of the cap broke/blew off? I have not seen pictures, this was told to my wife by the customer. Anyway, I get a letter from their insurance saying I owe $54,000 because it was our fault.
> I have never heard nor seen that glue on caps were against code? Any help is appreciated! We use IPC here....


We've sent KBI male adapters back to the manufacturer that failed where the cpvc connects to the brass. I don't know what ever came about it. But from what I've heard if it wasn't installed right they won't cover it. Like was the pipe beveled, was too much glue used, things like that.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Plumbergeek said:


> Thanks for the sobering info Mark! :thumbup:
> We had planned to turn it over to our insurance company tomorrow morning.
> How should we handle warranty now considering we can be held liable for everything? Put on invoice we are not responsible for material _or_ _workmanship_? Or would it even matter, if we could be sued regardless........:furious:


There is not a lot you can do about new/repair work on things that have a long life expectancy. However, things like parts that have renewable seals are a different story. There you have normal wear and tear issues and the warranty will help. What I see sometimes is where an insurance company will save up a couple of dozen supply lines from fixtures which have leaked then file a class action against the manufactures. Almost without fail there are usually wrench marks showing they were over tighten. The manufacture gets out and no one knows who installed the supplies.

Mark


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Plumbergeek said:


> Thanks for the sobering info Mark! :thumbup:
> We had planned to turn it over to our insurance company tomorrow morning.
> How should we handle warranty now considering we can be held liable for everything? Put on invoice we are not responsible for material _or_ _workmanship_? Or would it even matter, if we could be sued regardless........:furious:


Here is a copy of how I " Attempt " to protect myself against faulty products.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Here is a copy of how I " Attempt " to protect myself against faulty products.


Your first sentence should say* limited* *guarantee*


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Plumbergeek said:


> 2 years ago I capped off a water line in a customers basement with a cpvc cap on a 3/4" line. This past June the customer was in hospital having heart surgery and came home to a flooded basement. He called another plumber? to repair it and other "plumber"? told him the cap was not code? The cap did not blow off the line but the end of the cap broke/blew off? I have not seen pictures, this was told to my wife by the customer. Anyway, I get a letter from their insurance saying I owe $54,000 because it was our fault.
> I have never heard nor seen that glue on caps were against code? Any help is appreciated! We use IPC here....


 






If CPVC is an approved material for potable water piping in your area, then so are hard-caps made of CPVC. Unless there is some local code that strictly prohibits them, but that would be uncommon.

You didn't see the caps in question. So take what they tell you with a grain of salt. In other words, they might be lying to you to stick you with that huge clean-up bill. If the CPVC caps 'broke' after (2) years, I would like to know if someone altered, tampered or in some way abused those caps. If that were the case, then you are not liable my friend. 

Contact your insurance carrier immediately, as already posted. Follow up with your insurance company. Make sure your license information is all up-to-date.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Plumbergeek said:


> 2 years ago I capped off a water line in a customers basement with a cpvc cap on a 3/4" line. This past June the customer was in hospital having heart surgery and came home to a flooded basement. He called another plumber? to repair it and other "plumber"? told him the cap was not code? The cap did not blow off the line but the end of the cap broke/blew off? I have not seen pictures, this was told to my wife by the customer. Anyway, I get a letter from their insurance saying I owe $54,000 because it was our fault.
> I have never heard nor seen that glue on caps were against code? Any help is appreciated! We use IPC here....


 
Send it to your insurance, I wouldnt loose sleep over it. I would wonder why they didnt call you first.


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

GREENPLUM said:


> Send it to your insurance, I wouldnt loose sleep over it. I would wonder why they didnt call you first.


He said he did call us but, we were closed for vacation..........


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