# confused by old generation plumbing...



## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

i have been working in an older dollar home for the past two days or so.
house is about mid 50's build.first call was leak in ceilings when tubs were used. opened the ceiling and found the old galv running to cast .ended up repiping both bathrooms and cutting all of the galv out. what i'm curious about is why under the tubs and showers were the p-traps set so high that they had to 90 down directly after the trap and then 90 again at the bottom to level it out. why not drop down into the trap and the line the outlet of the trap with the drain like i put it back... so basically there was an s-trap under both showers and both tubs...any idea why the extra bends? there was plenty of room to drop the trap low enough that it wasnt neccesary.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

There were hacks in the 50' too.

<grin>


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

It did last 60 years.


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> It did last 60 years.


True story


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> It did last 60 years.


And there were no sharkbites and plastic tubular traps 60 years ago


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## goob (Dec 29, 2008)

drum trap?


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

no. galv p-trap


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> no. galv p-trap


Again....60 years. 

Ya might want to consider installing a galv. trap. :laughing:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Again....60 years.
> 
> Ya might want to consider installing a galv. trap. :laughing:


*Come on young ones. There were no angle drills, let alone Hole Hawgs and Timber Wolves. There was no big hole drilling unless you used a expansion bit in a brace. There were 1/4" electric drills with a spade bit you might have had enough power to drill a 3/4" hole. There were no Sawalls. You notched joists for piping with a compass saw. Piping was so arranged so as not to weaken the structure too much? Hense high an low traps [notching from the top or the bottom]. It was a different trade back in the early 50's and before. Bell and spikot cast iron [poured joints] required a bit more working area than PVC or ABS.*
*And so on! Notching was not hack work, it was a necessity to get piping where you needed it especially when you had to conceal piping. It was very seldom when you were provided with drop ceilings for pipe work. **Money though a lot less mattered then to.*


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

plumber_bill said:


> *come on young ones. There were no angle drills, let alone hole hawgs and timber wolves. There was no big hole drilling unless you used a expansion bit in a brace. There were 1/4" electric drills with a spade bit you might have had enough power to drill a 3/4" hole. There were no sawalls. You notched joists for piping with a compass saw. Piping was so arranged so as not to weaken the structure too much? Hense high an low traps [notching from the top or the bottom]. It was a different trade back in the early 50's and before. Bell and spikot cast iron [poured joints] required a bit more working area than pvc or abs.*
> *and so on! Notching was not hack work, it was a necessity to get piping where you needed it especially when you had to conceal piping. It was very seldom when you were provided with drop ceilings for pipe work. **money though a lot less mattered then to.*


Plus they used the double 90's to make a swing joint!
Remember all that galv, was threaded and had to be lined up to the tub, try doing that with a couple of 18" or 24" pipe wrench's


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I assume the trap was a Durham swing trap. If they had installed it on the lower horizontal run would the bottom of the j bend have extended below the ceiling?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *Come on young ones. There were no angle drills, let alone Hole Hawgs and Timber Wolves. There was no big hole drilling unless you used a expansion bit in a brace. There were 1/4" electric drills with a spade bit you might have had enough power to drill a 3/4" hole. There were no Sawalls. You notched joists for piping with a compass saw. Piping was so arranged so as not to weaken the structure too much? Hense high an low traps [notching from the top or the bottom]. It was a different trade back in the early 50's and before. Bell and spikot cast iron [poured joints] required a bit more working area than PVC or ABS.*
> *And so on! Notching was not hack work, it was a necessity to get piping where you needed it especially when you had to conceal piping. It was very seldom when you were provided with drop ceilings for pipe work. **Money though a lot less mattered then to.*


Bill, Are you selling your hand powered drills on e-Bay? :laughing:

I bet you had some of those big 2 speed ones you could really lean on....:thumbup:


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Bill, Are you selling your hand powered drills on e-Bay?

or maybe your lead working tools?


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

I'll try and get a couple of photos of the 12 story we're in now and show the wonder of Stringer fittings,good old fashioned plumbing.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *Come on young ones. There were no angle drills, let alone Hole Hawgs and Timber Wolves. There was no big hole drilling unless you used a expansion bit in a brace. There were 1/4" electric drills with a spade bit you might have had enough power to drill a 3/4" hole. There were no Sawalls. You notched joists for piping with a compass saw. Piping was so arranged so as not to weaken the structure too much? Hense high an low traps [notching from the top or the bottom]. It was a different trade back in the early 50's and before. Bell and spikot cast iron [poured joints] required a bit more working area than PVC or ABS.*
> *And so on! Notching was not hack work, it was a necessity to get piping where you needed it especially when you had to conceal piping. It was very seldom when you were provided with drop ceilings for pipe work. **Money though a lot less mattered then to.*


Heck, Mr. Parr there as very few of these fancy smanzy tools even back in the early 70's. 

Compass/Keyhole saws, bulky 1/2" drills, 2lb hammer and cold chisel, 6' folding rule were tools of the day and I don't miss them one bit.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Come on young ones. There were no angle drills, let alone Hole Hawgs and Timber Wolves. There was no big hole drilling unless you used a expansion bit in a brace. There were 1/4" electric drills with a spade bit you might have had enough power to drill a 3/4" hole. There were no Sawalls. You notched joists for piping with a compass saw. Piping was so arranged so as not to weaken the structure too much? Hense high an low traps [notching from the top or the bottom]. It was a different trade back in the early 50's and before. Bell and spikot cast iron [poured joints] required a bit more working area than PVC or ABS.
> And so on! Notching was not hack work, it was a necessity to get piping where you needed it especially when you had to conceal piping. It was very seldom when you were provided with drop ceilings for pipe work. Money though a lot less mattered then to.


And above all, all done with folding ruler


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I have seen so much shoddy hub and spigot cast iron, with galvanized waste arms and vents. The old, sainted plumbers weren't any better than the current crop. It's because if they blew a measurement, they weren't going to nip an inch off. Now with pvc and no-hub, there is no excuse for blowing a measurement, and not cutting a new piece to length.


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## ROTOR KING (Oct 7, 2008)

disn t they do that for syphoning reasons


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

422 plumber said:


> I have seen so much shoddy hub and spigot cast iron, with galvanized waste arms and vents. The old, sainted plumbers weren't any better than the current crop. It's because if they blew a measurement, they weren't going to nip an inch off. Now with pvc and no-hub, there is no excuse for blowing a measurement, and not cutting a new piece to length.


The 12 story we are in now(built in 68) has 30 4" stacks in it ,when they demoed the walls we didn't find one friction clamp on the stacks,every one of them were supported by a clevis hanger every other floor on the closet bends.Most of them are no where near plumb,sagging pipe,back pitched vent bars,lots of creative venting etc. etc.,hacks have always existed and will continue to.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

leakfree said:


> The 12 story we are in now(built in 68) has 30 4" stacks in it ,when they demoed the walls we didn't find one friction clamp on the stacks,every one of them were supported by a clevis hanger every other floor on the closet bends.Most of them are no where near plumb,sagging pipe,back pitched vent bars,lots of creative venting etc. etc.,hacks have always existed and will continue to.


Re piped?? With pvc or cast??


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Re piped?? With pvc or cast??


Repipe is in N.H. per the owners group requirements,and we are to save as much of the existing stacks as possible,don't know why:icon_confused:.The inspector doesn't see any sense to it either,but he goes along with the nonsense with a smile.


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