# My first Pipepatch Elbow Patch....sort of



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

So here's 2 firsts for me with pipe patch.....longest push and elbow packer.

The differences in distance are because I found a closer cleanout after the initial inspection. Both pipes are in 4". 

First the elbow packer. This thing packs out great in elbows and actually isn't as hard as I thought although there is a different technique. That elbow is at the 1/8 bend at the city wye connection so a failure would've been expensive!!!

Came out looking really nice. Did a few test runs at the house before doing the real thing and glad I did. Elbow packers pack out way different.

Then the offset. Almost 1" and verification is easily proven with the ridgid star guides that the offset is real and not an angle. The pipe patch made such a clean transition that I could barely feel the offset afterwards. 

Now the push was hard because I was on a hill but had help from Municipal Underground Services out of Laguna Niguel. That's one awesome thing about my rep....he (and me) understands that he can't always be at 2 places at once so he's put me in direct contact with quite a few installers who help me when I have questions. Awesome awesome system!


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

What's it take to get set up do that?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Roughly 3-5k Completely worth it for most shops to get into.

But you gotta have a jetter and camera already.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Nice work man! You get a thatta boy! Haha! In al seriouness that came out sweet!


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

Sweet job.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

oh look it made a ramp instead of a curb! Good job Ben


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

What's been your average cure time?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

sierra2000 said:


> What's been your average cure time?


About 90-120 minutes


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

Great work!


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Would you be comfortable doing a transition with it?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

sierra2000 said:


> Would you be comfortable doing a transition with it?


As in different pipe sizes like the 4x6? If that's what you mean then absolutely yes. It'll work great for that. I keep a 4x3 test piece in the van to show customers. It has an offset, 2" gap, holes and the 4x3 transition. It really helps them understand what the sectional repair can do.

What I see alot here is the 4x6 is the worst area so what I'll do is install the sectional repair at the 4x6 and now they can go a longer period between cleaning. Because the repair is fiberglass and resin, there's no inner plastic flow channel like CIPP so you can still run a jetter or snake over it. Can't do that with cipp lining.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

gear junkie said:


> So here's 2 firsts for me with pipe patch.....longest push and elbow packer. The differences in distance are because I found a closer cleanout after the initial inspection. Both pipes are in 4". First the elbow packer. This thing packs out great in elbows and actually isn't as hard as I thought although there is a different technique. That elbow is at the 1/8 bend at the city wye connection so a failure would've been expensive!!! Came out looking really nice. Did a few test runs at the house before doing the real thing and glad I did. Elbow packers pack out way different. Then the offset. Almost 1" and verification is easily proven with the ridgid star guides that the offset is real and not an angle. The pipe patch made such a clean transition that I could barely feel the offset afterwards. Now the push was hard because I was on a hill but had help from Municipal Underground Services out of Laguna Niguel. That's one awesome thing about my rep....he (and me) understands that he can't always be at 2 places at once so he's put me in direct contact with quite a few installers who help me when I have questions. Awesome awesome system!


Do you always have to jet the line before installing a patch?


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Unclog1776 said:


> What's it take to get set up do that?


 From my research for a basic system you better have $4978.18 a little less of you don't have to pay mich. Sales tax.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> Do you always have to jet the line before installing a patch?


yep


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## BOBBYTUCSON (Feb 8, 2013)

What brand did you go with ?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

BOBBYTUCSON said:


> What brand did you go with ?


???


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## mpm (Nov 16, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> As in different pipe sizes like the 4x6? If that's what you mean then absolutely yes. It'll work great for that. I keep a 4x3 test piece in the van to show customers. It has an offset, 2" gap, holes and the 4x3 transition. It really helps them understand what the sectional repair can do.
> 
> What I see alot here is the 4x6 is the worst area so what I'll do is install the sectional repair at the 4x6 and now they can go a longer period between cleaning. Because the repair is fiberglass and resin, there's no inner plastic flow channel like CIPP so you can still run a jetter or snake over it. Can't do that with cipp lining.


Looks nice. However that statement isn't entirely accurate for all CIPP. With inversion, yes its correct because after you inver the laminate or scrim as its called is on the inside so running a cable through it will rip it up. With pull in place your laminate is on the outside so cabling it won't do it any harm.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

If the laminate is on the outside, how does it stick to the pipe?


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## mpm (Nov 16, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> If the laminate is on the outside, how does it stick to the pipe?


So its kind of a misconception in the industry that the epoxy adheres the liner to the pipe. That's not completely true, its actually a mechanical bond. The epoxies used in lining do have adhesive qualities but anyone who tells you that it bonds it to the host pipe isn't being completely honest. It's a mechanical bond that bonds the liner to the pipe. 
Unfortunately a lot of inversion liners shrink because they're using an epoxy such as vinyl or polyester which shrinks. 
We use a 100% solids epoxy that does not shrink and holds shape, locking the liner to the host pipe. Although we do sometimes score the laminate on the liner for an adhesive effect, its not what locks it in place.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Go to 1:59. So NuFlow doesn't stick to the host pipe at all? Didn't look like it in that video. I understand the shrinkage and bondage theory but even with shrinkage, that seems better then that nuflow system. Really makes me question how well it would seal the roots out?

just my theory but pipe patch resin has kinda a gap filling effect, kinda like gorilla glue. It fills in the gaps and cracks and while may not "bond" seems like it does a better job than nuflow.

Also since nuflow doesn't appear to stick to the host pipe, any reinstatement is now a weak point?


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## mpm (Nov 16, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> NuFlow Pipe Relining Technology mp4 - YouTube
> 
> Go to 1:59. So NuFlow doesn't stick to the host pipe at all? Didn't look like it in that video. I understand the shrinkage and bondage theory but even with shrinkage, that seems better then that nuflow system. Really makes me question how well it would seal the roots out?
> 
> ...


Have you ever seen an LMK or Perma-Liner sample? The liner literally falls right out of the sample, there's no adhesion.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Hmmmm..... i use hammerheads liner and resins. I would have to disagree on the adhesion. Im not saying that any liner "bonds" to the pipe, but we have to engineer sample on many jobs and we have had zero penetration. There resins are 100% styrene free. I know on larger liners 8,10,12 inch with long inversions do not bond to the pipe and can infiltrate behind the liner. These liners are also high in styrene.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

mpm said:


> Have you ever seen an LMK or Perma-Liner sample? The liner literally falls right out of the sample, there's no adhesion.


WHAT?!!!! No way!!!!! I had no idea!


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