# Not sure about this customer.



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

A woman called saying her ceiling is wet because of the shower. She had 2 previous plumbers change parts. She had one install side tub guards. Now she thinks it may be the shower head arm or the guard isn't holding the water in.

It's a condo and they need like 7 days notice to shut the water down. She wants a new faucet but the back side is in the air above the stair case. A ladder job, not so great.

She wrote me 2 novels, probably took her all afternoon writing all this stuff. She thinks I'm doing drywall, tile and other stuff, nope.

I don't know, she might be off the wall a little too much. I have a feeling she'll be a clinger forever after that. I think I just answered my own question. Now I have to make up a reason to decline.


.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

that looks like a gypsy wagon faucet. very seldom do you see one with a stairwell unless you need to check the tire pressure.:biggrin:


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> A woman called saying her ceiling is wet because of the shower. .............



Might just be the stems leaking back into the hollow body of the faucet. Get a good plug and plug the drain. Make sure the drain basket is caulked where the lip meets the tub floor so you can totally rule out the drain. Then run only the cold and see if the leak happens. Next run only the hot. If you can do half the tub hot and half the tub cold and it doesn't leak for like 30 mins than dump all that water down the drain and see if it leaks.

You could also put a 1/2" fip x hose adapter on the shower arm and run it into the toilet and see if you get the leak.

You'll want to rule out the drain. Would be a real shame to open the wall and change the faucet only to find it's the drain leaking.


Check that the overflow gasket is in good shape, maybe caulk the top edge of the overflow escutcheon.




.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> that looks like a gypsy wagon faucet. very seldom do you see one with a stairwell unless you need to check the tire pressure.:biggrin:


Those are emco faucets form the 80's. These were installed in apartment building and they eventually sold those apartment as condos. They are really solidly built and can be repaired indefinitely.


Tire pressure? That's some joke I don't get.

.


----------



## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

The trim comes off and you can run tub and see if the valve leaks back into wall .. no need to turn water off. basicaly nothing but the shower arm is behind the wall


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

jeffreyplumber said:


> The trim comes off and you can run tub and see if the valve leaks back into wall .. no need to turn water off. basicaly nothing but the shower arm is behind the wall


The job is no problem other than spending 2 hours in a ladder all contorted in the stairs. It's the customer I'm afraid of being a little too much.

If the shower arm leaks I usually pull the chrome flange up top and peek in.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango said:


> Those are emco faucets form the 80's. These were installed in apartment building and they eventually sold those apartment as condos. They are really solidly built and can be repaired indefinitely.
> 
> 
> Tire pressure? That's some joke I don't get.
> ...


You might have room for a remodelers plate. Open up the wall just enough to sweat.... assuming it’s copper.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I just sent a message declining the job.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> You might have room for a remodelers plate. Open up the wall just enough to sweat.... assuming it’s copper.


Smitty plate won't work as the new spout would be at the overflow level.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango said:


> Smitty plate won't work as the new spout would be at the overflow level.


I bet you can cheat it a bit with the right plate. But the placement does suck for sure. I’d take on the job and charge accordingly... but the sh*t you guys have to deal with.... I don’t blame you for bowing out.


----------



## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

If the ceiling is already wet and damaged just cut a hole in the drywall and run the tub.
Its Usually the waste an overflow. Thoughs jobs in apartment buildings are always a pain in the ars especially when they back onto block walls.

When i see wet damaged drywall i just cut it out. Unless i have my eyes on the leak its just a guessing game.
And i tell people i dont fix drywall. Ill offer to but an access panel if i can keep it to a 15x15 square.
Its their leak, not my problem, cant fix what i cant see.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> I bet you can cheat it a bit with the right plate. But the placement does suck for sure. I’d take on the job and charge accordingly... but the sh*t you guys have to deal with.... I don’t blame you for bowing out.


A lot of people think if they pay 200$ a service call to have a few things fixed and a cartridge replacement but not totally replaced they think they are entitled to a free brand new faucet 6 months down the road when it fails again. Some also think we now owe them for every other leak in the place.

I walk on eggshells on every job I go into, it's stressful. I feel this customer is over the top and she'll come biting me after a while. Charge more that's another issue, you charge more and they may try and blackmail you down the road with a complaint and a visit to the kangaroo court. If I were any other trade I could charge them blind without consequences. As plumbers we are being watched and ruled by the mafia.


----------



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

When i see wet damaged drywall i just cut it out. Unless i have my eyes on the leak its just a guessing game.

Back in the late 70's I had my older brother working with me, he was shocked
when on a job looking for leak in the wall, I started breaking a hole in bedroom
wall behind the bathroom wet wall he wondered why and I told him that I left
my XRAY glasses at home :biggrin:


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> When i see wet damaged drywall i just cut it out. Unless i have my eyes on the leak its just a guessing game.
> 
> Back in the late 70's I had my older brother working with me, he was shocked
> when on a job looking for leak in the wall, I started breaking a hole in bedroom
> ...


I rarely cut out drywall when I see a stained ceiling. I'm pretty good at being a detective and locating leaks even when it seems all dry.

I also give the option to the customer if they want to try my methods first.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango said:


> I rarely cut out drywall when I see a stained ceiling. I'm pretty good at being a detective and locating leaks even when it seems all dry.
> 
> I also give the option to the customer if they want to try my methods first.


I’ve had leaks show up 30’+ away from the source.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> Those are emco faucets form the 80's. These were installed in apartment building and they eventually sold those apartment as condos. They are really solidly built and can be repaired indefinitely.
> 
> 
> Tire pressure? That's some joke I don't get.
> ...


Looks like a cluster *uck to me lololololol


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

OpenSights said:


> I’ve had leaks show up 30’+ away from the source.


Yep


----------



## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Well I hate to turn down a call, I do turn some down.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

Tango said:


> Those are emco faucets form the 80's. These were installed in apartment building and they eventually sold those apartment as condos. They are really solidly built and can be repaired indefinitely.
> 
> 
> Tire pressure? That's some joke I don't get.
> ...


thats a house trailer faucet. they have axles with tires.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Well I hate to turn down a call, I do turn some down.


I turn at least 5-10 jobs down a week for those who think 10$ is too much and haggle to 4$.

I also turn another 4-6 jobs a week for stuff I don't do.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> .............
> I also turn another 4-6 jobs a week for stuff I don't do.



Just use a bunch of lube, you'll be fine :vs_laugh:



.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Just use a bunch of lube, you'll be fine :vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> .


Jobs...Not tricks!:vs_laugh:


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> thats a house trailer faucet. they have axles with tires.


Yep


----------



## VictorPlumber (Feb 26, 2019)

Tango said:


> Charge more that's another issue, you charge more and they may try and blackmail you down the road with a complaint and a visit to the kangaroo court.
> As plumbers we are being watched and ruled by the mafia.


You can charge whatever you want - there are no rules or codes about charges ???


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

VictorPlumber said:


> You can charge whatever you want - there are no rules or codes about charges ???


Not true. You can charge as much as you want for labor except you have to tell them the price before the job starts. But there is a but, I bet a judge can over rule that. You will have to prove your rate is reasonable. What's reasonable you ask? Reasonable is the judge's mood that day.

We are not allowed to charge as much as we want for materials. It is written in the code of ethics and I've seen a few real court case articles where a single piece of pipe had to reimbursed to the plaintiff because he charged a lot. I haven't' seen the exact law in the civil code, but I definitely know my limit now. Again the limit depends on the "reasonable" and the judge's mood.


----------



## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Tango said:


> Not true. You can charge as much as you want for labor except you have to tell them the price before the job starts. But there is a but, I bet a judge can over rule that. You will have to prove your rate is reasonable. What's reasonable you ask? Reasonable is the judge's mood that day.
> 
> We are not allowed to charge as much as we want for materials. It is written in the code of ethics and I've seen a few real court case articles where a single piece of pipe had to reimbursed to the plaintiff because he charged a lot. I haven't' seen the exact law in the civil code, but I definitely know my limit now. Again the limit depends on the "reasonable" and the judge's mood.


You're in Canada right?


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

bawalter said:


> You're in Canada right?


May I ask why you want to know?


----------



## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Tango said:


> May I ask why you want to know?


Oh, sorry. You just made the statement about the rules for what you can charge and I didn't know where those rules were instituted. Is that something that is just your locality or something that's mandated in a larger body. 

Pricing can be weird but I haven't heard of the govt telling a company how they can price so that's where my curiosity comes from.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

bawalter said:


> Oh, sorry. You just made the statement about the rules for what you can charge and I didn't know where those rules were instituted. Is that something that is just your locality or something that's mandated in a larger body.
> 
> Pricing can be weird but I haven't heard of the govt telling a company how they can price so that's where my curiosity comes from.


If you find my thread in the secret room you will understand a little bit better. But for now :

It's all doublethink. I live 2 blocks down by the Ministry of Plenty...

_Ministry of Plenty seems to be entirely misnamed, since it is, in fact, responsible for maintaining a state of perpetual poverty, scarcity and financial shortages. However, the name is also apt, because, along with the Ministry of Truth, the Ministry of Plenty's other purpose is to convince the populace that they are living in a state of perpetual prosperity _


----------



## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

Tango said:


> If you find my thread in the secret room you will understand a little bit better. But for now :
> 
> It's all doublethink. I live 2 blocks down by the Ministry of Plenty...
> 
> _Ministry of Plenty seems to be entirely misnamed, since it is, in fact, responsible for maintaining a state of perpetual poverty, scarcity and financial shortages. However, the name is also apt, because, along with the Ministry of Truth, the Ministry of Plenty's other purpose is to convince the populace that they are living in a state of perpetual prosperity _


I have a first edition hard copy I got from my great grandmother. We are living in interesting times.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Check the waste and overflow connection..... at the overflow. Use a small handheld camera and poke a couple 1/2” inspection holes......cut an access and install a removeable panel. The leak is probably something intermittent snd small.

I get these same calls every week, I have great success with my methods. I always find the leak.......


----------

