# Electric On Demand Heater



## dplumb (Jan 6, 2013)

hey all, anyone out there in PZ land install electric on demand heaters. This certainly is not my first choice, but gas is not available in this house and I have a customer that really wants one. Reviews are all over the place and I wanted some reviews I can really trust. Looking for 4-5 gpm, cost really isn't an issue, I just want a unit that hasn't had many problems. Like I said, gas unfortunately isn't available as that would be my first choice. Thanks


----------



## Mr-Green (Apr 29, 2013)

dplumb said:


> hey all, anyone out there in PZ land install electric on demand heaters. This certainly is not my first choice, but gas is not available in this house and I have a customer that really wants one. Reviews are all over the place and I wanted some reviews I can really trust. Looking for 4-5 gpm, cost really isn't an issue, I just want a unit that hasn't had many problems. Like I said, gas unfortunately isn't available as that would be my first choice. Thanks


You mean like an insta hot under a sink or something?


----------



## dplumb (Jan 6, 2013)

Nope. Whole house. Like a Rannai or Navien


----------



## Mr-Green (Apr 29, 2013)

dplumb said:


> Nope. Whole house. Like a Rannai or Navien


Oh I know about them but never actually installed any. Sorry I couldn't help.


----------



## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

5 gpm is a lot on an electrice tankless. Read the small print on the specs to see how many GPM you can get at a decent shower temp.

And that unit will need a 240 volt, 120 amp circuit installed. $$$$$$$$$$


----------



## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Never installed one but I've ripped a few out in favor of a electric tank. Those things take a TON of juice and I haven't ran into a reliable one yet. All of the ones I have ran into are marked out at around 3-3½ GPM and to be honest, I'm not sure they were even pushing that much usable hot water. The only way I can see one working properly is in a house with one maybe two people living there and they use hot water one person at a time. 

Why can't you run gas via a LP bottle?


----------



## dplumb (Jan 6, 2013)

grandpa said:


> 5 gpm is a lot on an electrice tankless. Read the small print on the specs to see how many GPM you can get at a decent shower temp.
> 
> And that unit will need a 240 volt, 120 amp circuit installed. $$$$$$$$$$


Pretty much told them that 5 GPM is a pipe dream, especially with a temp change of almost 70° in the winter time. Told the 3.5 GPM is a little more realistic and they could certainly get a hot shower. In my opinion gas is always the way to go, but there isn't any on the street.


----------



## James420 (Nov 14, 2012)

bct p&h said:


> Never installed one but I've ripped a few out in favor of a electric tank. Those things take a TON of juice and I haven't ran into a reliable one yet. All of the ones I have ran into are marked out at around 3-3½ GPM and to be honest, I'm not sure they were even pushing that much usable hot water. The only way I can see one working properly is in a house with one maybe two people living there and they use hot water one person at a time.
> 
> Why can't you run gas via a LP bottle?





dplumb said:


> Pretty much told them that 5 GPM is a pipe dream, especially with a temp change of almost 70° in the winter time. Told the 3.5 GPM is a little more realistic and they could certainly get a hot shower. In my opinion gas is always the way to go, but there isn't any on the street.


What was said earlier, what about Propane?


----------



## dplumb (Jan 6, 2013)

Tried to push propane. They didn't want to have the tank and seem worried about running out (ridiculous, they would rather run out of hot water with this stupid heater than keep a tank filled which they could just have a contract with the propane provider and NEVER have run out). Just seems like an unwinnable situation. If I install the heater I know they won't be happy with the amount of hot water.


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I get requests from time to time on these....if money is not an object does that mean they would upgrade their electrical service....that would open some opportunities to my way of thinking.
Seisco has been used around here but when a board goes out you are waiting for a new one....at least no loud relays snapping in....but 50 deg rise only 4 gal/m and 4 40 amp breakers required.


----------



## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/tempra.html I have installed 4 of these. The 36 plus model. I have not had to work on one of them yet the oldest is 4 or so years old. They seem to be alright units I think with the 36plus your suppose to get 4 gpm with 90 degree rise.


----------



## slumplumber (Jan 22, 2013)

One advantage of large electric tank type heaters over instantaneous electric heaters is that some electric suppliers (typically rural electric co-ops or those who are resellers) will offer a reduced cost electric rate if you allow them to install controls that cycle off the lower tank element so they can keep their peak electric demand down.


----------



## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

wyplumber said:


> http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/tempra.html I have installed 4 of these. The 36 plus model. I have not had to work on one of them yet the oldest is 4 or so years old. They seem to be alright units I think with the 36plus your suppose to get 4 gpm with 90 degree rise.


I installed a stiebel-eltron electric tankless ( customer supplied) about 5 years ago. It needed three 240v double pole 30a breakers and three lines Run to the unit to power all three elements. And I couldn't get a water temp over 105deg F at the shower. Regular single function 2.5 gpm head. To me thats unacceptable. She didn't care for it either. So we installed a 50gal electric wh instead with a recirc line to the heat exchanger on her geo thermal heating system.


----------



## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

slumplumber said:


> One advantage of large electric tank type heaters over instantaneous electric heaters is that some electric suppliers (typically rural electric co-ops or those who are resellers) will offer a reduced cost electric rate if you allow them to install controls that cycle off the lower tank element so they can keep their peak electric demand down.


They stopped offering the off peak hours box around here ten years ago. Better check with the electricity company first to see if they offer it. Better idea is a timer (little gray box) turns unit on and off for customer, and can be tailored to their habits, not the electric company's best or worst delivery Times.


----------



## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

theplumbinator said:


> I installed a stiebel-eltron electric tankless ( customer supplied) about 5 years ago. It needed three 240v double pole 30a breakers and three lines Run to the unit to power all three elements. And I couldn't get a water temp over 105deg F at the shower. Regular single function 2.5 gpm head. To me thats unacceptable. She didn't care for it either. So we installed a 50gal electric wh instead with a recirc line to the heat exchanger on her geo thermal heating system.


Any idea on what size it was? we found out if it isn't the 36 plus you better not do any more than wash your hands. Yeah the 36 and 36plus take three separate 60 amp breakers and the min electrical service size is 300 amp to the house so some careful planning is needed.


----------



## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

Dont remember what model it was. Felt bad for the customer she was so excited to get a tankless unit. Crazy environmentalist she was. She had two 200 amp services in the house. And both boxes were full after her remodeling adventure.


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

slumplumber said:


> One advantage of large electric tank type heaters over instantaneous electric heaters is that some electric suppliers (typically rural electric co-ops or those who are resellers) will offer a reduced cost electric rate if you allow them to install controls that cycle off the lower tank element so they can keep their peak electric demand down.


Here he is again, handyman without a full intro slumming into this site again.


----------



## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

I sized a steibel eltron electric tankless for a 3 bath house. It needs three 60 amp breakers to run.


----------



## dplumb (Jan 6, 2013)

I appreciate the input. After telling them that they can really be an issue and that their wiring wasn't sufficient she decided to just put another tank in. Thanks for saving me the headache!


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

These work ok... :laughing:

But I wouldn't think of doing a whole house with one...


----------



## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

dplumb said:


> I appreciate the input. After telling them that they can really be an issue and that their wiring wasn't sufficient she decided to just put another tank in. Thanks for saving me the headache!


Just remember you WILL in time run into that HO that no matter how much you explain the headache that will come, not just with the unit, the temp rise, and the electric add-on that has to be done. The will still want one! My advise on that situation is to write up a speacial contract for said job that releases you and your company from any needs that will be coming. Just from experiance on people and the stupid things that can come in future!

Years ago did custom cabinets & counter tops. HO floor was BS WAVED. I tried to get them to have the floor leveled first but cost was out of their range. So I added to contract that if the floor was leveled it would void my lifetime contract! You know it happened 15 years later I get noticed I'm being sued for damaged countertop and cabinets, showed contract to HO attorney for some reason HO lost their copy!!!:whistling2:

In this computer world paper is dead, but you will be dead if you dont keep paper contracts safe for 20 years down the road if your work is what causes a major problem in a house and HO wants to be a :furious: you will be!


----------

