# New Construction Plumbing - Do you rough in Top Down or Bottom up"



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I've been accustomed to roughing from the bottom up, but a fellow plumber tonight told me about roughing in from the top down and I've actually done it that way numerous times, and liked it.


The trick is securing all piping so when you push up, the piping stays in place and keeps the pitch you've set it at.


Poll is coming


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I've done top down by setting my cross to catch my vents for a bath group, set my dimensions through the floor for certain drains/vents to terminate at hub clearance if I'm tucking in a system below, like on a first or second floor design.


Apparently the amount of going up and down steps is greatly reduced when you do a top down equation, given there's no necessity to have someone setting level to uprights or cutting long measurements for lav turnouts, 42" for the vents from down below. 

It stops the back and forth equation with one or two doing the job.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

bottom up.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TOp up, fo ever and fo ever. Did one, bottom up once, total pain in the ash.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Sometimes I wish I still did new construction as there were parts I enjoyed a lot.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

i start from the top always:yes:


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

Always did it bottom up.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Ahh COOL! 


Let's amp this up now that this is DEBATE MATERIAL. 


What are the advantages of top down?


What are the advantages of bottom up?



This thread is more for the new construction plumbers so have at it. 


The plumber I was speaking to tonight made the top down attitude the answer for efficiency, assuming the reason was having to turn up pipes to get to either the tees serving drains or 90's serving vents. I don't know... 


My new construction days ended in the early 90's.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

My new construction days ended in the mid-late 90's but I always did it from the bottom up. I suppose if I had a rough-in to do tommorow that's how I'd do it just because that's what I'm used to. I really never gave any thought to which one would be better, it's just how we did it. 








Paul


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

I am with rocksteady. the only reason I go top down is because that is the way I was taught. One of the reason we did it that way was because most of the houses we worked on were unfinished basements so we would rough in top floors so the drywallers could get thier jobs done. We would go back and finish the plumbing in the basements at a different time. Never made sense to me since we had to carry all the tools in the house twice but as it is on most jobs its hurry hurry hurry don't have time for sensible thinking here.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

You gotta get it ready for insulation and sheetrock first and foremost. These people are usually waiting on the plumber.

Somebody would blow a gasket if the insulator was waiting and the plumber was dicking around in the crawlspace or basement instead of the top floor.

All that said, I am a start in the middle guy. 

Rough in the top floor living space, Vents up, drains and water down.
run the vents in the attic.
run the drains and water below.
If it's slab on grade construction, everything is bottom up, for obvious reasons


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

If it's a two story house the first thing I do is set the closet flanges for the 2nd floor, then I move upstairs and work down.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

I voted bottom up, but if its a crawl space i rough top down.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> You gotta get it ready for insulation and sheetrock first and foremost. These people are usually waiting on the plumber.
> 
> Somebody would blow a gasket if the insulator was waiting and the plumber was dicking around in the crawlspace or basement instead of the top floor.
> 
> ...



I have to stop you there for a SEC. Mind you, this is just my method. I have done many multi-story jobs, where the plumbing was roughed in on the bottom floor in the slab, but still start from the top.
Started to the bottom, means more stair climbing than needed. Have to run up to the floor above, drill all holes, stub all units down, run back down, tie in all stubbed down units, back and forth.
Starting from the top, you do away with all that running back and forth between floors. 
I am just a Man, A plumber man, that is well, Just how the heck i like to do it.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

This is an interesting topic. There are many different plumbing styles.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Ever been under an offgrade and can't seem to locate the hole you know you drilled for the refridgerator icemaker box and literally had to crawl out from under and go up top and stick a piece of pipe down so you can then find it? Been there, done that. Top first!


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I have used both techniques. Depending on the job conditions, whichever is the most efficient or less taxing on the bod dictates.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I drop everything into the crawlspace and then connect in between.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Now builders do it differant in differant parts of the world. When I was in St. Louis the foundation was poured, the shell erected, then we would plumb the house and after that they would pour the basement floor. I liked it that way. In South Dakota they pour the foundation, I rough in the underground, then they pour the slab and then build the shell. I especially like it when they don't pour the floor when they set a modular on a foundation. It makes for a cleaner finished product, seeing as the manufacturer's plumbing drop spec's are never right. This also dictates how I plumb a house.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

ON an offgrade home, i take the drill underneath, and pull all the measurements off the block. i drill the holes from the bottom up. Most of the time, the illeagle alien workers frame the home pretty well. I have only went through one shoe using this method. I am pretty sure that this post is bogus. I would never do that.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Another trick of mine, maybe some of you do this as well, is, every pvc drop I make on a vent, soil stack, I use a coupling at the bottom plate. This keeps the pipe where I want it when i go underneath to tie it all it. Kinda like a ******* riser clamp.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> ON an offgrade home, i take the drill underneath, and pull all the measurements off the block. i drill the holes from the bottom up. Most of the time, the illeagle alien workers frame the home pretty well. I have only went through one shoe using this method. I am pretty sure that this post is bogus. I would never do that.


That's just funny right there.:laughing:


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

I always go Top to bottom. How I was taught and seemed to always make sense to me. Esp, if I was working by myself. What I liked to do was drill the toilets top floor, then mark every hole from top to bottom and figure out my lay out. Then I would spend the rest of the day drilling, setting battons, divertors, gas manifolds, etc. But then no more Hole Hawg and massive cleaning the rest of the job.

On a day with the house to myself, I could usually get the top floor done done & nail platted. And in summer tub's set. I learned when I was very green why my mechanic always warned me to run my attic vents before I uncrated the tubs...:blink:

I just always was trained a good ground work will lead to an easier rough in and a smooth trim make's everyone happy. I like to lay everything out ahead of time to make sure I don't run shy of fitting or etc. so top to bottom just works great for me.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

I always start on the first floor, work my way up (if need be), then finish in the basement or crawl.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> If it's a two story house the first thing I do is set the closet flanges for the 2nd floor, then I move upstairs and work down.



+1

Sometimes I wish crap would just flow up so we had nothing underslab, the latest slab guys down here just don't give a s***


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

ESPinc said:


> +1
> 
> Sometimes I wish crap would just flow up so we had nothing underslab, the latest slab guys down here just don't give a s***



You mean the guys pouring it, which suck everywhere for kicking stacks and moving toilets...or the crews doing the under floors ? Only reason I ask is b-c we got to the point up here were we had the job from start to finish or we wouldn't take it (unless we were helping out another crew) that way you only had yourself to blame if you made the rough or trim harder by slacking.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

I always started in the basement and worked up because thats how I started. I do plumb from the toilet flange backwards to the floor most times. It seems easier and I don't get to the toilet flange and find out a S90 will give me backwards fall because I screwed up with the height of the 90 at the stack


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

My last job as an empolyee plumber, when i first got there, they were stubbing up 4" pipe and capping it off for the toilet risers on wood floors! We had a meeting later on that week, they put a stop to it.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Top down 90% of the time . Just learned it mostly that way . Bottom up when needed .

Top down always seemed easier to maintain grades and trap heights . Maybe i'm cock eyed  

GOOD thread !


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I have to stop you there for a SEC. Mind you, this is just my method. I have done many multi-story jobs, where the plumbing was roughed in on the bottom floor in the slab, but still start from the top.
> Started to the bottom, means more stair climbing than needed. Have to run up to the floor above, drill all holes, stub all units down, run back down, tie in all stubbed down units, back and forth.
> Starting from the top, you do away with all that running back and forth between floors.
> I am just a Man, A plumber man, that is well, Just how the heck i like to do it.


:whistling2::no:
Sorry guys but i've done hundreds of rough ins - top out. i've done them both ways and it's more efficient from bottom up every time. i usually have an apprentice who goes and lays out all holes by my drawings and as he does that i start to top out. when he's done i'll be all stubed up and he takes the vent through the roof and i begin to run my water system that has also been layed out and drilled. if it's a two story works the same. apprentice secures herco rings straps vents and blocks for water and valves! we set tubs test dwv, test water. move on to next.:thumbsup:


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I've thought about it and have a hard time coming up with an answer. 

Sometimes, the basement is poured before the framing starts, and other times the whole job can be done at once. If the basement has to be poured first, then you must do the underground first.

Typically, most of the houses I plumbed could be done all at once. So here's how I did it:

Go to the job first thing in the morning. Mark and drill all the stacks/flanges/waterlines. Then head for the supply house. Once you've drilled your stacks and so on, you can measure and make a material list.

Buy everything you think you need.

Have lunch.

Go back to the job and start putting stuff in.

I like to put in any cross vents, then stacks and hook them together, then go beneath the floor and hook the closets, then line up the underground. With the underground in and the basement floor finished, it's all a little harder. 

In that case, I'd start my stacks from the basement, in which case I'd be doing bottom-up. 

For crawlers, put everything through the floor including copper stubs. (OK, it's been a while since I plumbed many houses.) Use wood shims to hold stacks and stubs in place. Then go into the crawler and hook everything. That sounds like top-down.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I did a large custom home in 93 that was on piers. I had the foudation plan so it had all the pier locations marked on the prints. The owner did not want any pipes hanging under his house......even tho it was just a 30" crawl space. When the footing was being poured I installed a piece of 6" sch 80 carbon steel coated on the inside and out with a spray on rubber stuff from the shipyard.That was for my building sewer exit. After the block was set for the perimeter of the home but before the floor joists/subfloor were installed i pulled strings marking my plumbing walls and the locations of my stacks. I buried all the water and sewer pipes just like the house was on a slab. That was the only pier job were I started from the bottom up. No problems at all.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

bigdaddyrob said:


> You mean the guys pouring it, which suck everywhere for kicking stacks and moving toilets...or the crews doing the under floors ? Only reason I ask is b-c we got to the point up here were we had the job from start to finish or we wouldn't take it (unless we were helping out another crew) that way you only had yourself to blame if you made the rough or trim harder by slacking.


I was meaning the footer/concrete crews. In my shop the plumber who starts the job finishes the job (rough though Trim out), that way there is no one else to point fingers at!


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

no basements here. If its a crawl space, I'll layout and drill the floors. I'll stick pipes through the floor into the crawl space with a coupling on it to keep it from falling through. Then plumb to it. Then I can just push up on the pipes I have sticking through and drop them into the fitting. Slab houses obviously bottom up. On second floors I'll do the same as I do a crawl space. Drill and poke them through. We don't set our closet flanges till trim cuz our finished floors are anywhere up to 2 inches thick. I've even seen 2 and a half. You're just asking for trouble putting that many extension flanges on if we put our flanges on first.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

house plumber said:


> no basements here.


Yea, there is one I know of in Palm Harbor..


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ESPinc said:


> Yea, there is one I know of in Palm Harbor..


Kenneth City has a couple too. Far and few between. Protech has probably seen more basements than us.


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## Powerhouse (Apr 22, 2012)

*Roughing a house*

I have made a living off of new construction. A three man crew can rough a house in one long day for a 3.5 or 2.5 bath house. Thisincludes thru the roof, all fiberglass, tied into sewer if already in foundation. All test equipment on and test ready with air. The way you start is by drilling all holes and sweeping up all wood chips. Then one guy puts insulation behing tubs and installs all fiberglass and water piping. Two other guys install PVC from first to second floor then venting in attic. Water pipe guy then installs all nail plates and test equipment. Late afternoon move all tools to the basement and complete rough. Call the inspector the next morning. :yes:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Powerhouse said:


> I have made a living off of new construction. A three man crew can rough a house in one long day for a 3.5 or 2.5 bath house. Thisincludes thru the roof, all fiberglass, tied into sewer if already in foundation. All test equipment on and test ready with air. The way you start is by drilling all holes and sweeping up all wood chips. Then one guy puts insulation behing tubs and installs all fiberglass and water piping. Two other guys install PVC from first to second floor then venting in attic. Water pipe guy then installs all nail plates and test equipment. Late afternoon move all tools to the basement and complete rough. Call the inspector the next morning. :yes:


Intro is requested from you


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Powerhouse said:


> I have made a living off of new construction. A three man crew can rough a house in one long day for a 3.5 or 2.5 bath house. Thisincludes thru the roof, all fiberglass, tied into sewer if already in foundation. All test equipment on and test ready with air. The way you start is by drilling all holes and sweeping up all wood chips. Then one guy puts insulation behing tubs and installs all fiberglass and water piping. Two other guys install PVC from first to second floor then venting in attic. Water pipe guy then installs all nail plates and test equipment. Late afternoon move all tools to the basement and complete rough. Call the inspector the next morning. :yes:


lol 3 journeyman and a 16+ hour day?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

ILPlumber said:


> You gotta get it ready for insulation and sheetrock first and foremost. These people are usually waiting on the plumber.
> 
> Somebody would blow a gasket if the insulator was waiting and the plumber was dicking around in the crawlspace or basement instead of the top floor.
> 
> ...


I guess we got something in common

I always start in the middle ... then venting in attic.... then down to the basement to tie eveything in...


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Nothing like digging up a long dead thread.


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