# 2009 IPC combination waste and vent



## woberkrom

Normally, I work under the UPC, so forgive me if this is elementary to most of you guys.

Say I want to run across a basement ceiling from a 3" stack serving a bathroom group to pick up a lavatory.

Could I run 2" across the ceiling, up into the wall, and then turn out with a ninety degree with a reducer to pick up the lavatory trap? Usually, I would use a tee, and then run the vent up and across the ceiling or out through the roof. However, it looks like I could size it with 2", poke out with a 90 instead of a tee with a vent and it would be considered a "combination drain and vent system" under the 2009 IPC.

Fire away.


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## skitian

No, I believe the combination waste/vent is referring to being able to wet vent the toilet by having only the vent off the lavy, instead of individually venting the toilet as well. You can actually wet vent a toilet and tub/shower from the vent off the lav, granted you don't roll up the trap for the tub/shower.


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## woberkrom

Well, I'm not sure we are discussion the same thing.

Years ago, I had an inspector suggest that I install it just as I am describing (2" over and up into the wall, and then turning out with a 90 to the trap).



It was under a prior version of the IPC, and in a different municipality.

Also, since he suggested it and inspected it (and it worked fine, most important of all) it hasn't been an issue for me.

Anybody ever done something like I am asking about?


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## plumb nutz

I may be reading it wrong but it seems to me that you want to run a line off of a 3" stack to an individual fixture (the sink) on a floor above? Then no, that would not be a combination waste and vent. It would have to be individually vented.

If your tying off of the stack at let's say 18" off the floor to catch a sink, then yes, as long as your within you length limit

I hope that helps


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## plumb nutz

A combination waste and vent would be if you caught two sinks one on different floors the drain on the upper is the vent on the lower...


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## Redwood

I believe section 912.2 covers what you are asking we are on 2003 and changes were made in 2006 so check what you are using...


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

I know that they arnt the best but are you allowed to use a studor vent ??? Then you are venting the fixture . Are you tieng into the stack under all the fixture tie ins


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## cityplumbing

woberkrom said:


> Normally, I work under the UPC, so forgive me if this is elementary to most of you guys.
> 
> Say I want to run across a basement ceiling from a 3" stack serving a bathroom group to pick up a lavatory.
> 
> Could I run 2" across the ceiling, up into the wall, and then turn out with a ninety degree with a reducer to pick up the lavatory trap? Usually, I would use a tee, and then run the vent up and across the ceiling or out through the roof. However, it looks like I could size it with 2", poke out with a 90 instead of a tee with a vent and it would be considered a "combination drain and vent system" under the 2009 IPC.
> 
> Fire away.


With a combination drain and vent system, you would still need to connect a dry vent between your stack and the fixture.. Have you considered an AAV?


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## cityplumbing

*Here's a drawing..*

Here's a drawing I got from a 2007 NYC code book that was interpreted...Hope this helps..


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## mccmech

cityplumbing said:


> Here's a drawing I got from a 2007 NYC code book that was interpreted...Hope this helps..



I think you're trying to compare apples & oranges. In your code page it appears as if a battery of fixtures is the example. that said, ther is a vent before the first fixture of the battery and after the last fixture of the battery. You're dealing in a residential set-up it sounds like, so that won't qualify . IMHO.


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## Michaelcookplum

You can do that but you have to put a studder vent under the cabinet


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## Plumber Jim

plumb nutz said:


> A combination waste and vent would be if you caught two sinks one on different floors the drain on the upper is the vent on the lower...


That would be a wet vent.

A combination waste and vent would be like, If you needed to install a floor drain but say the nearest wall you could run a vent up was over you limit from trap to vent. The drain would be over sized by one pipe size and the drain would act as the vent as well as the drain. You would still need a dry vent on that branch someplace though.


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## Redwood

Try this for a pic...


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## Plumber Jim

Redwood said:


> Try this for a pic...



Yes, the line from the f/d to the wye would be a drain and vent the line that runs from the sink downstream would be a wet vent. at least that is how it was taught when i took my IPC class in 2003. things keep changing.


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## cityplumbing

mccmech said:


> I think you're trying to compare apples & oranges. In your code page it appears as if a battery of fixtures is the example. that said, ther is a vent before the first fixture of the battery and after the last fixture of the battery. You're dealing in a residential set-up it sounds like, so that won't qualify . IMHO.


 
Look close, the arrows might appear to be vents but there's only one vent showing and its at the wash vent on the far right.. It's an example of a combination waste and vent system.


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## cityplumbing

Also that dry vent can be connected at any point within the combination drain and vent system..


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## woberkrom

Redwood said:


> I believe section 912.2 covers what you are asking we are on 2003 and changes were made in 2006 so check what you are using...


I have a 2003 IPC book right here....

And I quoteth (from the IPC 2003):

*912.1 Type of fixtures. A combination drain and vent system shall not serve fixtures other than floor drains, sinks, lavatories and drinking fountains...*

So, a lav should be good.

*912.1 Installation The only vertical pipe of a combination drain and vent system shall be the connection between the fixture drain of a sink, lavatory or drinking fountain, and the horizontal combination drain and vent pipe. The maximum vertical height is 8'.*

I take this to mean, that I have to run horizontally, and the only place I can go vert. is where I turn up to the lav. So, I can't pull of the horizontal serving a shower (let's say) and then run across the ceiling, go up into a pocket, turn flat, and then turn up again.
*
912.2.1 Slope The horizontal combination drain and vent pipe shall have a maximum slope of one-half unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (4-percent slope). The minimum slope shall be in accordance with Table 704.1*

I take this to mean that they want the horizontal portion of the combination drain and vent to be kept relatively flat so air can work its way backwards against the flow (to maintain an equilibrium in pressure).
*
912.2.2 Connection. The combination drain and vent system shall be provided with a dry vent connected at any point within the system or the system shall connect to a horizontal drain that is vented in accordance with one of the venting methods specified in this chapter. Combination drain and vent systems connecting to building drains receiving only the discharge from a stack or stack shall be provided with a dry vent. The vent connection to the combination drain and vent pipe shall extend vertically a minimum of 6 inches above the flood level of the highest fixture being vented before offsetting horizontally.*

I think I would be in trouble if I tied into the vertical stack serving the toilet. However, reading this, tying into the horizontal arm for a shower or tub shouldn't be an issue.

*912.2.3 Vent size the vent shall be sized for the total drainage fixture load in accordance with Section 916.2*

This means either the dry vent serving the combination drain vent has to be the right size, or the vent for the horizontal drain has to take into account the added fixtures from the lav being introduced via the combination drain and vent.
*
912.2.4 Fixture Branch or drain. The fixture branch or fixture drain shall connect to the combination drain and vent within a distance specified in Table 906.1. The combination drain and vent pipe shall be considered the vent for the fixture.*

This is where the rubber meets the road. The first part is saying make sure the drain arm (in this case probably just a trap weir's length) isn't too long. The second part is where it says "it's all good, bro, the drain IS the vent, dude." Correct me if I am wrong.

*912.3 Size. The minimum size of a combination drain and vent pipe shall be in accordance with Table 912.3.*

Refering to table 912.3, I see that a 2" pipe will take away 3 DFU's if connected to a horizontal branch or stack (in this case the shower arm).

What am I missing? Help me out here guys that know the IPC. I think this kind of zannyness is why a lot of UPC guys turn their nose up at the IPC (well that and AAV's).


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## woberkrom

I get to typing, and you guys have put up a bunch of pics in the meantime....


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## woberkrom

Michaelcookplum said:


> You can do that but you have to put a studder vent under the cabinet


It isn't clear that I do (I could be wrong about this). It looks like the book says connecting to a horizontal drain (with a vent sized to accommodate everything) is acceptable.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Can you use an aav ??


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## woberkrom

this can be erased


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## woberkrom

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Can you use an aav ??


The inspector says we can only use an AAV under a kitchen island.


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## plumb nutz

Y'all are wrong cause you can't read. A combo vent is the vertical pipe between 2 fixtures no more than 8 feet apart. Think of it like this you have a 2 floor building. Each floor is exactly the same with the same fixture in the same place (an ewc for example) you can run 1 pipe to serve as the waste and the vent as long as the fixtures are 8' apart and the final vent is dry.

You do not have a combo vent on the horizontal, you can have an individual, wet, or circut vent.

To answer your question, if your tying into the 3" branch or wye off the stack you need a vent. If you tie on the stack with a tee your good as long as you don't break the plane.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

woberkrom said:


> The inspector says we can only use an AAV under a kitchen island.


Well from what I read you have to tie your line into the existing stack above all other tie ins or you tieng into a wet vent Unless you can vent it somewhere along the run?? Then it has a drain , a dry vent , and it's oversized ,,, here we can use an aav for that or a circuit vent


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## woberkrom

This is what I am proposing.

http://imgur.com/jZON6


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## woberkrom

plumb nutz said:


> Y'all are wrong cause you can't read. A combo vent is the vertical pipe between 2 fixtures no more than 8 feet apart. Think of it like this you have a 2 floor building. Each floor is exactly the same with the same fixture in the same place (an ewc for example) you can run 1 pipe to serve as the waste and the vent as long as the fixtures are 8' apart and the final vent is dry.
> 
> You do not have a combo vent on the horizontal, you can have an individual, wet, or circut vent.
> 
> To answer your question, if your tying into the 3" branch or wye off the stack you need a vent. If you tie on the stack with a tee your good as long as you don't break the plane.


So, accounting for floor joist height, the rooms are only four or five feet tall?

I think maybe you are talking about stack venting.


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## cityplumbing

Sounds like in your situation you would be better of using a AAV.


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## woberkrom

cityplumbing said:


> Sounds like in your situation you would be better of using a AAV.


I wish I could, but I've been told I will be turned down if I do (unless it is an island sink).


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Why is this a IPC job not a UPC ??? You talked like you know UPC ??? So why are you changing codes???


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## woberkrom

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Why is this a IPC job not a UPC ??? You talked like you know UPC ??? So why are you changing codes???


Some day I will make a map for you guys of what we have to deal with here.

IPC and UPC are used in different parts of our service area. We serve some of the metro St. Louis, MO side. We don't go into Illinois even.

We don't have a state license, so we have a mess instead.

You can drive five miles and the code can change back and forth between IPC and UPC a couple of times.

Factor in the amendments that every little muni has, and it is even dumber than I am making it sound.

:furious:


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## Tommy plumber

woberkrom said:


> This is what I am proposing.
> 
> http://imgur.com/jZON6


 




Drawing is missing (1) thing in my opinion: can you stick an AAV under the lav sink in your drawing? Also make sure your shw isn't too far away.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

woberkrom said:


> Some day I will make a map for you guys of what we have to deal with here.
> 
> IPC and UPC are used in different parts of our service area. We serve some of the metro St. Louis, MO side. We don't go into Illinois even.
> 
> We don't have a state license, so we have a mess instead.
> 
> You can drive five miles and the code can change back and forth between IPC and UPC a couple of times.
> 
> Factor in the amendments that every little muni has, and it is even dumber than I am making it sound.
> 
> :furious:


Come to Tx We use ether code Lol. In your sketch is you new line drawn ??


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## woberkrom

Tommy plumber said:


> Drawing is missing (1) thing in my opinion: can you stick an AAV under the lav sink in your drawing? Also make sure your shw isn't too far away.


AN AAV, why didn't I think of that....



Seriously though, they won't let me use an AAV for this.


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## cityplumbing

plumb nutz said:


> Y'all are wrong cause you can't read.A combo vent is the vertical pipe between 2 fixtures no more than 8 feet apart. Your right about that..That's one way of looking at it.Think of it like this you have a 2 floor building. Each floor is exactly the same with the same fixture in the same place (an ewc for example) you can run 1 pipe to serve as the waste and the vent as long as the fixtures are 8' apart and the final vent is dry.
> 
> You do not have a combo vent on the horizontal, you can have an individual, wet, or circut vent. Here's the definition..*COMBINATION WASTE AND VENT SYSTEM.* A specially designed system of waste piping embodying the horizontal wet venting of one or more sinks or floor drains by means of a common waste and vent pipe adequately sized to provide free movement of air above the flow line of the drain.
> 
> To answer your question, if your tying into the 3" branch or wye off the stack you need a vent. If you tie on the stack with a tee your good as long as you don't break the plane.


 
Think I can read just fine...


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## woberkrom

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Come to Tx We use ether code Lol. In your sketch is you new line drawn ??


Yeah.

The shower drain is dumping into the stack and wet venting the toilet. Off the horizontal arm serving the shower, the LAV is coming across (horizontally) and then turning up (less than 8 feet) to the fixture branch (which is less than the maximum allowed).

I should have put some distances on it, or marked tees and wyes and such.


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## cityplumbing

woberkrom said:


> Yeah.
> 
> The shower drain is dumping into the stack and wet venting the toilet. Off the horizontal arm serving the shower, the LAV is coming across (horizontally) and then turning up (less than 8 feet) to the fixture branch (which is less than the maximum allowed).
> 
> I should have put some distances on it, or marked tees and wyes and such.


If the shower is wet venting the bowl then combination w/v is OUT. You can't have a toilet in a combination w/v system..


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## cityplumbing

Where was the old Lav installed?


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## woberkrom

cityplumbing said:


> Where was the old Lav installed?


the house.

I don't know. One of the GC's sent me over some pics. We are following behind some knuckleheads. Looking at the pics, I think the lav moved to the other side of the room (now in an opening that was a doorway, so there is a header above where the vent would usually go). Then, on top of that, the whole room is like tile tile everywhere and is more or less finished on the interior. All access is from the back side.

Its hella stupid, bro.


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## plumb nutz

The answer is that you have to have a vent off of the lavy. The stack vent is venting the w/c but does not extend to the 2" branch for the shower or lavy, this is a wet vent, plain and simple. The wet vent on the lavy will vent everything. If you can't use an AAV, sorry, no shortcuts.


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## woberkrom

cityplumbing said:


> If the shower is wet venting the bowl then combination w/v is OUT. You can't have a toilet in a combination w/v system..


I think I can as long as I am tying into a horizontal drain that is vented in accordance with the other rules of the IPC.

Also, this is above the toilet, so I am not sure that is a factor.

I'll keep reading though.


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## woberkrom

A revised drawing.


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## plumb nutz

woberkrom said:


> Yeah.
> 
> The shower drain is dumping into the stack and wet venting the toilet. Off the horizontal arm serving the shower, the LAV is coming across (horizontally) and then turning up (less than 8 feet) to the fixture branch (which is less than the maximum allowed).
> 
> I should have put some distances on it, or marked tees and wyes and such.


The shower drain cannot vent the toilet. The stack is venting the toilet.

It's a stretch but and I'd have to really look, and well...

There might be a work around, but I'm not sure if your inspector would go for it...

The actual vent requirement for a lavy is quite small... I'd have to check but I believe its 1/2"... If you could feed that behind the wall an connect to the vent stack...

And the 2" run is less than 8' from the stack, that may work...

But I'd have to check, it may just be my brains are still a little shaken...


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## plumb nutz

Reply on your revised drawing...

Toilet is vented of the stack...
The lavy is not vented, period. Its not a combo waste because there is 1) no fixture above it venting it 2) no dry vent above the drain connection


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## cityplumbing

What's above the bathroom?


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## cityplumbing

Just realized you can't have a shower in a combo system anyway...


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Isn't a shower just a floor drain???


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## Optimus Primer

woberkrom said:


> A revised drawing.


Sorry, but that is no iso.:laughing:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

house plumber said:


> Sorry, but that is no iso.:laughing:


What's an iso ??


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## cityplumbing

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Isn't a shower just a floor drain???


If you consider washing your arse in a shower also hair, shampoo all that good stuff.


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## cityplumbing

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> What's an iso ??


Isometric drawing...


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## Ron

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> What's an iso ??


Iso need a drink right now :laughing:


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## Plumber Jim

I think you should show your inspector what you are up against and see what he says. Maybe he will allow an AAV in this case or you will have to tell the people you need to open a wall to run the vent up.


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## woberkrom

house plumber said:


> Sorry, but that is no iso.:laughing:


It's not my finest work, but I think it conveys what I am proposing.


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## Plumber Jim

Sometimes we as plumbers are asked to do the impossible. Not because we can't design a plan that will work, But because they won't let us open what walls, floors or drop ceilings to lay the pipe we need. I will tell them right out. This is what i need to do to make it work. If they are unwilling to let me get access to what i need i walk.


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## plumb nutz

The AAV is the best option, however, check out ipc section 918 and table 918.2.
It may be a work around as long as the shower drain is within the 8' rule


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

cityplumbing said:


> Isometric drawing...


Thanks now I know


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## cityplumbing

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Thanks now I know


Don't mention it. I always try to help out.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

We call those a Schematic drawing ....


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## Optimus Primer

I only said that because of the one's I have drawn for the home owners.


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## Tommy plumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> What's an iso ??


 




These are isometric drawings.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Those look nice. But we call them schematics .... Have you ever heard them called that ??


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## cityplumbing

When I think of a schematic I think of an electric diagram..


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## cityplumbing

Nice ISO's Tommy..


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

cityplumbing said:


> When I think of a schematic I think of an electric diagram..


That's right


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## Tommy plumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Those look nice. But we call them schematics .... Have you ever heard them called that ??


 



I have heard the term 'schematics', but not applied to plumbing drawings.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Ok guys maybe I'll call them iso's. Just to through people off lol ... Always learning .... I was taught to draw isos and that's how I made my parts list for my dollhouse test a few years ago


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## Bayside500

iso's are drawn on 45 degree angles

or is it 30 degrees ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection


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## plbgbiz

Bayside500 said:


> iso's are drawn on 45 degree angles


Calling Dr. House...Code Blue on the PZ! :blink:


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## Tommy plumber

Bayside500 said:


> iso's are drawn on 45 degree angles
> 
> or is it 30 degrees ?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection


 


30 degrees. The triangle needed to draw them is a 30-60-90 triangle.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Tommy plumber said:


> 30 degrees. The triangle needed to draw them is a 30-60-90 triangle.


Ok can u explain a bit more the angels are in relation to what ?? Thanks


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## Tommy plumber

On a typical isometric drawing, all vertical drains and vents are also vertical on the isometric on the paper. All horizontal drains, vents, sewers, trunk lines and so forth are all drawn on a 30 degree angle on the iso paper.


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## Redwood

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Ok can u explain a bit more the angels are in relation to what ?? Thanks


Maybe this will help...
An Isometric Drawing is just a manner of projecting the angles in a manner that the drawing gives you a sense of a 3-D drawing. Almost anything can be drawn as an isometric drawing but plumbing isometrics are done with lines & symbols.

Check this link to get the concept of isometric drawing...


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Ok. When I was taught to draw. First you made like a compass on the top of paper. You first made a vertical line and labeled it up on top of line and down on bottom of line then you drew your north and south line and east and west line , you could rotate those however you wanted I'm guessing theses lines would be best if drawn at a 30 degrees... Then you drew any riser as a vertical any other line you drew parallel to the line on the compass for whatever direction in was going Sounds complicated but I don't explain it the best


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Here is an example of what I was describing and a very simple drawing of A sink and resi bathroom group Does any body else use this method ?? Is ther a better way ??


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## Redwood

Using 45 degree angles is the way the military draws...

Had to do that way back when....:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Here is an example of what I was describing and a very simple drawing of A sink and resi bathroom group Does any body else use this method ?? Is ther a better way ??


 




For our state exam, we had to show direction of flow. If you look at my isometric drawings you can tell what fittings to use by looking at my drawing. Direction of flow is important.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Tommy plumber said:


> For our state exam, we had to show direction of flow. If you look at my isometric drawings you can tell what fittings to use by looking at my drawing. Direction of flow is important.


I see that... Looks great. What state are you in ?? I drew my rough in on my test just to make a material list. When I Test for masters you have to draw a 3 story house


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## Tommy plumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I see that... Looks great. What state are you in ?? I drew my rough in on my test just to make a material list. When I Test for masters you have to draw a 3 story house


 



I'm in Florida. For our state exam (master's license) applicants have to draw (5) isometric drawings. Each one is worth 10 points. So the isos are worth 50 points out of 100 points. I practiced almost 200 drawings before I sat for the exam and I was still nervous.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Tommy plumber said:


> I'm in Florida. For our state exam (master's license) applicants have to draw (5) isometric drawings. Each one is worth 10 points. So the isos are worth 50 points out of 100 points. I practiced almost 200 drawings before I sat for the exam and I was still nervous.


Cool. Sounds like a good test How did you learn to draw them ??


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## Tommy plumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Cool. Sounds like a good test How did you learn to draw them ??


 




I purchased a home study course from a fellow plumber (who failed his state exams then sort of gave up). Anyway he tells me he'll sell me the study course and books for $ 300.00 so I said OK. With the home study course was like 10 or 15 drawings of prints along with the isometric view of the drawing. I just sat and tried to learn how to copy the isometrics. Then after that, I stopped looking at the isometric and tried to produce the isometric without having to copy it. Eventually I was able to look at what they call the 'floor plan' view and draw its corresponding isometric. 

There are companies that will teach you how to draw an isometric drawing but they wanted like $ 1000 for their classes and I couldn't afford that.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Cool. They taught us the compass trick when I took some required code training for my journeymans test. It was super cool to learn that ... I don't ever use it now tho ... We always have prints to go by ... Do u draw much any more cuz they do look sharp ???


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## Tommy plumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Cool. They taught us the compass trick when I took some required code training for my journeymans test. It was super cool to learn that ... I don't ever use it now tho ... We always have prints to go by ... Do u draw much any more cuz they do look sharp ???


 



I just drew one (2) days ago to show an inspector a stack in a (4) story building for a re-model I'm doing. When I do a re-model and I am altering the plumbing by either adding or deleting a fixture, the AHJ usually requires an isometric drawing.


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## ranman

Redwood said:


> Try this for a pic...



upc and ipc defines the CWVent differently.


the pic shown I would define that as between the arrows a wet vented section. the risers to the lavs would be CWVented. they would be increased to 2" run and rise with a 2" 90 and a bushing used in it for trap connection.

that comes from the ipc code commentary I have argued with inspectors and broke out the book and showed where the were wrong thinking.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Tommy plumber said:


> I just drew one (2) days ago to show an inspector a stack in a (4) story building for a re-model I'm doing. When I do a re-model and I am altering the plumbing by either adding or deleting a fixture, the AHJ usually requires an isometric drawing.


That's cool I'd like to get to that point one day


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## abudgetplumb

nice isos' I've had to practice a lot on my drawings i can add up fixtures & figure pipe size quick but can't draw very well


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## abudgetplumb

can't you also do your take-offs from iso drawings. the drawings from Tommyplumber are how we're taught now in wa using a square


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## user7551

combination drain and vent =ipc combination waste and vent =upc two totally different systems for different applications


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## Redwood

However, in the first post and in the thread title it states we are talking IPC...


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## Mr. V.A.

*combo waste/vent right off main line ??*



Plumber Jim said:


> That would be a wet vent.
> 
> A combination waste and vent would be like, If you needed to install a floor drain but say the nearest wall you could run a vent up was over you limit from trap to vent. The drain would be over sized by one pipe size and the drain would act as the vent as well as the drain. You would still need a dry vent on that branch someplace though.



I'm curious about the distance for the dry vent ?? I've had situations come up where there is a floor drain and no vent avail. for 40+ ft. they up sized the trap and placed a primer on it, but ultimately the trap is draining into the "main".... I dont believe this qualifies as a combo waste and vent. but not sure of alturnatives


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

A intro is requested by new members. Thanks


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## Ghostmaker

If your tying into a 3 inch stack that is vertical you will need to re vent it.
If you are tying into a horizontal portion of 3 inch you can combo drain and vent as long as you do not raise the 2 inch above the centerline of the 3 inch until you go vertical to pick up your sink..

The 3 inch will also need to have something that is vented on it...


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## Mr. V.A.

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> A intro is requested by new members. Thanks


Wow.... where I live, and where I work, no one speaks your language.... but I've heard tell of it....."rude and arrogant". the old plumbers use to speak it....you know... those guys with no friends, no co-workers that can stand being around them........

good luck in your world, thank god your not in mine


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Mr. V.A. said:


> Wow.... where I live, and where I work, no one speaks your language.... but I've heard tell of it....."rude and arrogant". the old plumbers use to speak it....you know... those guys with no friends, no co-workers that can stand being around them........
> 
> good luck in your world, thank god your not in mine


Wow is rite. Bro. I was being nice when I asked!! The damn here has asked us to be nice to new members !! But you want to get smart and act like a freaking idiot. Glad ur not in my world cuz crybabys don't cut it here !!! You must not work with real plumbers if you never heard my language !!  If you missed it when you joined the site you wer asked for a intro post. To tell a bit about your self to us vetted members and so we can welcome you. You on my playground not urs get it strait!!! I can't help if you don't mind rules , can't read , or are just stupid. But it's ther in clear. Print. Post a intro. Not hard to see. As for friends I have plenty and coworkers like me cuz I'm funny but when it gets to the gritty I work to plumb and make money not tippy toe for softy guys like you that wine and cry about feelings !!!!

So now maybe you see I was being very nice. I even said thanks. All you had to do was shut the f up. Post an intro and I'd be welcomeing you aboard. But nooooo you want to show how smart you are. That's 1 strike for you 

Have a great time on here. You started off on a great foot. Some people are just stupid and dangerous !!!!!

I and by the way wtf is a pipe fitter doin running combo waste and vent any ways!! Around here that's a plumbers job. Not a pipe fitter!!! Who's breaking the rules again !!???? Pipe fitter + welder = 1/2 of a plumber !!!


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## MDPlumber1977

Mr. V.A. said:


> Wow.... where I live, and where I work, no one speaks your language.... but I've heard tell of it....."rude and arrogant". the old plumbers use to speak it....you know... those guys with no friends, no co-workers that can stand being around them........
> 
> good luck in your world, thank god your not in mine


TX Mech was not being rude friend. The same thing was asked of me when I recently joined and posted prior to an intro. It's simply a respect new members provide to senior members to ensure that the site stays devoted to Plumbing Pro's. On a side note, TX Mech even wrote" Thanks" at the end of his request. There was no need to swing


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## RealLivePlumber

But, its a kinder, gentler PZ.:jester::laughing:

Dude shoulda been here a month ago. Then he woulda had something to biotch about. :yes:


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## Rando

Mr. V.A. said:


> Wow.... where I live, and where I work, no one speaks your language.... but I've heard tell of it....."rude and arrogant". the old plumbers use to speak it....you know... those guys with no friends, no co-workers that can stand being around them........
> 
> good luck in your world, thank god your not in mine


I didn't think he could be anymore polite?


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## plbgbiz

Mr. V.A. said:


> ...good luck in your world, thank god your not in mine


An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/. 

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession) 

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, years in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field. 

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is. 

We look forward to your valuable input.

PS: This is the part where you should apologize for being rude to the distinguished gentleman from Texas. He is a damn fine father, husband, and Plumbing Professional so he deserves to be treated with respect.


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## Ghostmaker

woberkrom said:


> I think I can as long as I am tying into a horizontal drain that is vented in accordance with the other rules of the IPC.
> 
> Also, this is above the toilet, so I am not sure that is a factor.
> 
> I'll keep reading though.



What is venting your shower? Under combination drain and vent it is not one of the allowable fixtures. As An inspector I would turn you down for that installation as drawn. I Inspect IPC and have worked with the tools for many years.


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## swedishcharm21

You can only Combo drain/vent : Sinks, Lavs and drinking fountains. Sinks cannot have a disposal.

IMHO, there are much better venting methods than the Combo drain/vent, anyways.


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## Ghostmaker

woberkrom said:


> A revised drawing.


This is not legal because if you look at vertical wet vent in the IPC the fixtures need to tie above the toilet *individually *to that vertical stack.

SO if you have toilet at bottom Then shower above toilet within 8 foot of stack

Then add the lav within 6 foot above the shower and size according to the wet vent sizing chart you are now ok.

Looking at it as a combination you would need to vent that shower. And the Toilet.

What your trying to do is combine two separate vents into one. It usually will not fly.

When your applying code try to remember a basic rule of thumb

Nothing drains past another fixture without a source of vent air being provided. That being over sized pipe or a vent to air...


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