# PVC pipe on solar pool heaters



## Protech

It should be illegal to use pvc on a solar pool heating system, or at least on the roof portion.

Why is it that something that should be against code is the industry standard?


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## Protech

case


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## Redwood

Are you saying it is a hack industry?


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## Protech

Unfortunately, yes.



Redwood said:


> Are you saying it is a hack industry?


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## Tommy plumber

Even though the scope of a plumber's license allows us to install solar water and pool heating piping, many plumbers (if not all) leave it to swimming pool or speciality contractors.


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## Protech

5:14 to 6:19 :whistling2:

This is a panel manufacturer no less.


http://youtu.be/TYHt_2T_Chs


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## Protech

What's the harm in using PVC on solar pool systems? Everybody does it, so it can't be wrong, right? :whistling2:


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## Protech

Yep, no problems here :whistling2:


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## Protech

:whistling2:


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## Bayside500

i like how they ruined the roof as well, OMG, i would be pissed if that was 
my roof


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## Widdershins

Protech said:


> It should be illegal to use pvc on a solar pool heating system, or at least on the roof portion.
> 
> Why is it that something that should be against code is the industry standard?


 Would schedule 80 PVC be allowed? Would it still be prone to damage from UV and need to be painted?

Seems to me it would hold up much better than schedule 40.

As for schedule 40 being allowed, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with keeping costs down, not to mention some heavy lobbying from the manufacturers.


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## Protech

Sch 80 CPVC is what I use. The pipe is painted with a UV rated exterior paint. It takes about 10 years for the paint to break down and then another 20 years for the pipe to be effected. By that time the panels themselves are past their expected lifespan and so is the roof deck.



Widdershins said:


> Would schedule 80 PVC be allowed? Would it still be prone to damage from UV and need to be painted?
> 
> Seems to me it would hold up much better than schedule 40.
> 
> As for schedule 40 being allowed, I'm sure a lot of it has to do with keeping costs down, not to mention some heavy lobbying from the manufacturers.


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## Protech

Bayside500 said:


> i like how they ruined the roof as well, OMG, i would be pissed if that was
> my roof



I'm not sure what you mean.


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## Bayside500

Protech said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.


by them screwing into the shingles, that looks like a leak waiting to happen, and wouldn't the pipes wear into the shingles over time, i'm not sure how much those pipes move though ?


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## Protech

The roof penitrations won't leak if done correctly. straight sections of pipe typically don't a braid the roof. it's where you have a pressure point like a fitting that it tends to wear through.


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## Optimus Primer

Bayside500 said:


> by them screwing into the shingles, that looks like a leak waiting to happen, and wouldn't the pipes wear into the shingles over time, i'm not sure how much those pipes move though ?


 
How do you think Tom C does his panels, velcro?


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## Optimus Primer

Protech said:


> Sch 80 CPVC is what I use. The pipe is painted with a UV rated exterior paint. It takes about 10 years for the paint to break down and then another 20 years for the pipe to be effected. By that time the panels themselves are past their expected lifespan and so is the roof deck.


 
Is that considering the Florida sun or just in general, just curious?


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## Bayside500

house plumber said:


> How do you think Tom C does his panels, velcro?


i have no idea, but there is no way someone is putting screws in my new roof, ..................i'm just saying.

what about using those plastic blocks that get glued down with roof tar or whatever, like the ones AC people use for condensate drains ?

protech, i am not being critical, just wondering is all


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## Protech

you have to put screws into the roofing deck bayside. I don't know of any other way to do it. if you think of a better way let me know.


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## FLSolarDesign

*Defending Solar Pool Heating and Dispelling Myths*



Tommy plumber said:


> Even though the scope of a plumber's license allows us to install solar water and pool heating piping, many plumbers (if not all) leave it to swimming pool or speciality contractors.


You can avoid a lot of the problems shown here with proper materials and techniques. Black plumbing is particularly prone to the issues presented in this thread, but the main culprit is installations that do not drain down fully and allow water to stagnate in the system. Panels and plumbing that are void of water or have cool pool water running through them do not develop the plumbing warping and sagging. Proper support intervals is also critical. I have documented this in my black solar pool heat plumbing blog post.

As for the roof protection and penetrations, the same thing applies - the right materials and expertise are needed to do it right. All industries have "hacks" as another poster tried to paint the entire solar pool heating industry. That's pretty scathing, but quality installers do exist out there.


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## Flyout95

FLSolarDesign said:


> You can avoid a lot of the problems shown here with proper materials and techniques. Black plumbing is particularly prone to the issues presented in this thread, but the main culprit is installations that do not drain down fully and allow water to stagnate in the system. Panels and plumbing that are void of water or have cool pool water running through them do not develop the plumbing warping and sagging. Proper support intervals is also critical. I have documented this in my black solar pool heat plumbing blog post.
> 
> As for the roof protection and penetrations, the same thing applies - the right materials and expertise are needed to do it right. All industries have "hacks" as another poster tried to paint the entire solar pool heating industry. That's pretty scathing, but quality installers do exist out there.


Eat a bag of wieners... Don't bump old posts to peddle your crap.


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## jobrendanr

*Solar and PVC in Vegas*

The solar and PVC question is simple. Use PVC. It is the most durable and most reliable for a job like this, you can argue all you want, but if a pro does it than this is the one that you want. Now, those that do not know what they are doing can certainly mess this up, but pros knows like us http://plumberlasvegaspro.com. Never trust a boy to do a mans job. Do it right the first time and the argument is over.


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## quickplumb

These Images made me think twice before using pvc pipes on roof ....


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## rjbphd

jobrendanr said:


> The solar and PVC question is simple. Use PVC. It is the most durable and most reliable for a job like this, you can argue all you want, but if a pro does it than this is the one that you want. Now, those that do not know what they are doing can certainly mess this up, but pros knows like us http://plumberlasvegaspro.com. Never trust a boy to do a mans job. Do it right the first time and the argument is over.


How did this marketing craps get here??


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## ShtRnsdownhill

jobrendanr said:


> The solar and PVC question is simple. Use PVC. It is the most durable and most reliable for a job like this, you can argue all you want, but if a pro does it than this is the one that you want. Now, those that do not know what they are doing can certainly mess this up, but pros knows like us http://plumberlasvegaspro.com. Never trust a boy to do a mans job. Do it right the first time and the argument is over.


your a boy pretending tobe a man.....


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## wharfrat

It is clear what he is doing. Kick him out cricket!


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## Debo22

steve1544 said:


> Kick out these kind of creeps from this forum...


Without an introduction, you don't belong either


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## jigs-n-fixtures

At current prices, your better off installing solar electric panels and using an electric water heater.


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## rjbphd

steve1544 said:


> Kick out these kind of creeps from this forum...


Kick this creep out of here


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## FLSolarDesign

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> At current prices, your better off installing solar electric panels and using an electric water heater.


I don't agree with this at all with respect to this thread. I think you are talking about solar domestic water heating, in which case I agree with you. Solar water heating for homes is effectively dead except in rare situations, at least here in Florida. People just don't use enough hot water and electricity is too cheap now.

A solar pool heater around here costs around $4,000 installed. An electric heat pump pool heater costs about the same, but only lasts half as long. To generate enough electricity to offset the electric heat pump you would need approximately 2.3kW in PV for a 10 month swimming season in Florida. That would cost approximately $8,000. So you would need to spend $12,000 compared to $4,000 at day 1, and shell out thousands of dollars over the next decade in electricity costs. You would also have to replace (and possibly repair) the heat pump at least once in the life of the solar pool heater.

Granted, the two pool heating options do different things, and you get some added functionality out of the heat pump, especially with a spa, but at a much higher cost. Trying to use the heat pump on 60 degree days will make your electric bill go through the roof, requiring even more PV, while solar pool heat will continue to heat a pool even on cold days (not that anyone really wants to swim on those days anyway).


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## ganchaozjs

,yes,operating cost shall be considered for proposal selection



FLSolarDesign said:


> I don't agree with this at all with respect to this thread. I think you are talking about solar domestic water heating, in which case I agree with you. Solar water heating for homes is effectively dead except in rare situations, at least here in Florida. People just don't use enough hot water and electricity is too cheap now.
> 
> A solar pool heater around here costs around $4,000 installed. An electric heat pump pool heater costs about the same, but only lasts half as long. To generate enough electricity to offset the electric heat pump you would need approximately 2.3kW in PV for a 10 month swimming season in Florida. That would cost approximately $8,000. So you would need to spend $12,000 compared to $4,000 at day 1, and shell out thousands of dollars over the next decade in electricity costs. You would also have to replace (and possibly repair) the heat pump at least once in the life of the solar pool heater.
> 
> Granted, the two pool heating options do different things, and you get some added functionality out of the heat pump, especially with a spa, but at a much higher cost. Trying to use the heat pump on 60 degree days will make your electric bill go through the roof, requiring even more PV, while solar pool heat will continue to heat a pool even on cold days (not that anyone really wants to swim on those days anyway).


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## chonkie

ganchaozjs said:


> ,yes,operating cost shall be considered for proposal selection


:what:

Please post an introduction in the introduction section. http://www.plumbingzone.com/showthread.php?t=11368


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