# Replacing the tub spout piping...



## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

I went out to a call today...rental situation. Homeowner had remodeled the entire bathroom...:thumbup:
anyways the tenant was complaining of a wet ceiling...found the source, fixed, no biggy. ... until i was testing the valve and found the tub spout wobbly and dripping against the tile surround( new ceramic tile surround, valve on second story outside wall)
The fella has plumbed the tub spout with pex pipe and cut it about 1" from the tile...and installed a universal tub spout with the 0-ring.Is there any possible way to swap the pex for copper without removing the tile... obviously very little room behind the wall with no access from the back. sorry i didnt snap any pics...
forgot to mention the pex causes such a reduction on flow that when the tub is filling there is water coming out of the shower head!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Single lever or two handle ?


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Pex on a diverter is just f'ing stupid. The reason it's running up the shower head is because of the pex fitting on the spout. It's narrower and creates negative pressure. As far as fixing it without taking out tile? Maybe if its single handle and a goof plate. Gotta do some micro surgery


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Sounds like the landlord got what he paid for. Pex to the tub spout... Come on. Of course it wont work properly. Unless I'm missing something you need to open wall and install copper from valve to spout. Why should the cheap ass get an easy fix anyway? He will learn through his wallet.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

If it's a single lever trace a line around the outside of the trim plate. 
Remove the trim plate, cut the pex loose. Sweat the pex adapter off or unthread it.

Now measure the length of your spout drop, throw a 90 and short piece of pipe on so it sticks out the wall a little long. Test fit. Pull it out and sweat both pieces into the 90.

Let it cool.

Fish it in thru the spout hole, insert into base of shower valve and sweat together.

If it's a 2 handle your screwed


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

You can also prefab some brass fittings, nipple and 90 try to thread it on without dropping it. I've done that before. Dropped the make up 3 times before it finally caught.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

PlungerJockey said:


> If it's a single lever trace a line around the outside of the trim plate.
> Remove the trim plate, cut the pex loose. Sweat the pex adapter off or unthread it.
> 
> Now measure the length of your spout drop, throw a 90 and short piece of pipe on so it sticks out the wall a little long. Test fit. Pull it out and sweat both pieces into the 90.
> ...


Nice! I like to plumb with a little vengeance at times I guess. Lol


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## Plumb26 (May 18, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> I went out to a call today...rental situation. Homeowner had remodeled the entire bathroom...:thumbup:
> anyways the tenant was complaining of a wet ceiling...found the source, fixed, no biggy. ... until i was testing the valve and found the tub spout wobbly and dripping against the tile surround( new ceramic tile surround, valve on second story outside wall)
> The fella has plumbed the tub spout with pex pipe and cut it about 1" from the tile...and installed a universal tub spout with the 0-ring.Is there any possible way to swap the pex for copper without removing the tile... obviously very little room behind the wall with no access from the back. sorry i didnt snap any pics...
> forgot to mention the pex causes such a reduction on flow that when the tub is filling there is water coming out of the shower head!


Break out the rotozip and call W/B ..........


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Stupid landlord maintenance. Ugh!

Tell him a nine tile square is being removed. Then use copper with wood backing to anchor the stubout. The cost to repair the tile can also be referred to as stupid tax.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

PlungerJockey said:


> If it's a single lever trace a line around the outside of the trim plate.
> Remove the trim plate, cut the pex loose. Sweat the pex adapter off or unthread it.
> 
> Now measure the length of your spout drop, throw a 90 and short piece of pipe on so it sticks out the wall a little long. Test fit. Pull it out and sweat both pieces into the 90.
> ...


Yep


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

It is a single lever faucet but I didnt want to get his hopes up on the easy fix if it was gonna be a crap shoot...I gave an estimate to fix it without cutting the tile and one with cutting the tile . Was hoping I would be able to snake the copper down and pop it out of the tub spout hole and then sweat it into the valve body.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> It is a single lever faucet but I didnt want to get his hopes up on the easy fix if it was gonna be a crap shoot...I gave an estimate to fix it without cutting the tile and one with cutting the tile . Was hoping I would be able to snake the copper down and pop it out of the tub spout hole and then sweat it into the valve body.


No access panel from behind?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Do it right... open the wall... repipe.... and stick it to the ladlord for being cheap and aloowing others to cut corners..


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> It is a single lever faucet but I didnt want to get his hopes up on the easy fix if it was gonna be a crap shoot...I gave an estimate to fix it without cutting the tile and one with cutting the tile . Was hoping I would be able to snake the copper down and pop it out of the tub spout hole and then sweat it into the valve body.


As a professional, you never worry about getting their 'hopes up" or down! Your job is to go in there, diagnose the problem and present options and costs.

There is only one way to fix this. That is the right way. The moment you start doing alternative methods, so you can take it easy on the customer is when you are taking the steps to Professional Hackery.

Either he can pay to open it up and fix the problem or let him call someone else.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

It's hard to say without a picture, but ibet it's possible to change that spout drop from the front without cutting the tile. I change all my single handle shower valves from the front thru the original hole. 

If they tile right up to the valve, you can make the hole bigger as long as it is covered by the trim plate.

If your not comfortable doing it that way, then cut the wall.


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

Triplecrown24 said:


> As a professional, you never worry about getting their 'hopes up" or down! Your job is to go in there, diagnose the problem and present options and costs.
> 
> There is only one way to fix this. That is the right way. The moment you start doing alternative methods, so you can take it easy on the customer is when you are taking the steps to Professional Hackery.
> 
> Either he can pay to open it up and fix the problem or let him call someone else.


this is incorrect .lol. there are many ways to fix this and thats what this thread is about. of course im gonna do it the right way.ie: take the pex out and install copper , i just wanted insight on how hard it would be to do it without cutting the tile. trying to help the guy out so he doesnt have to hire a tile guy.


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

if i could cut the valve loose then it wouldn't be an issue to get the spout in..if im gonna do that then i would just install a whole new valve.no sense in cutting a 2 year old lowes valve out and re-installing it. and as the first post stated its in an outside wall with no access at all.he obviously wants it done as painless as possible hence why im trying to go from the front without hacking his tile or outside wall up...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> if i could cut the valve loose then it wouldn't be an issue to get the spout in..if im gonna do that then i would just install a whole new valve.no sense in cutting a 2 year old lowes valve out and re-installing it. and as the first post stated its in an outside wall with no access at all.he obviously wants it done as painless as possible hence why im trying to go from the front without hacking his tile or outside wall up...


Why are you letting his poor judgement become your problem?


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

its no problem at all. like i said im just curious how many people have done this without any issues. either way im replacing the tub spout pipe. just wondering whether im wasting my time trying to do it without cutting the tile.he wants to spend as little as he can so im trying to be helpful. this guy is a friend of one of the companies i do alot of work for so its one of those situations....


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> this is incorrect .lol. there are many ways to fix this and thats what this thread is about. of course im gonna do it the right way.ie: take the pex out and install copper , i just wanted insight on how hard it would be to do it without cutting the tile. trying to help the guy out so he doesnt have to hire a tile guy.


All due respect 'younger plumber', everything I said IS correct.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> he wants to spend as little as he can so im trying to be helpful. this guy is a friend of one of the companies i do alot of work for so its one of those situations....


I pretty much have gone to the same gas station every day, for YEARS. I have gone to the same grocery store for years. I have yet to have one of them come up to me and give me a discount because I've been a good, loyal customer. I pay the same...just like everyone else.

Business is business. Good Luck though, Younger Plumber! Keep us posted.


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

i understand what your saying but i like to try to help out my loyal customers if i can. you gotta understand im 25 and people are already kinda critical because of my age so i have more to prove than an older fella with 20 plus years experience...so if i can fish that copper through and save him the hassle of calling a tile guy when hes fully expecting to have to shell out more cash and pay that guy he's gonna be happier with me and more impressed that i can perform in "tight situations". does that sound like a bad mindset or am i overthinking it...?

and i wouldnt really call it a discount, just less work for me and him if i dont have to cut out the tiles and have them reset afterwards..


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

younger-plumber said:


> you stated there is only one way to fix the issue. i provided atleast 3 options .... just saying. no need for you "quotes" smart guy


Young pup. U need to be a bit more respectful


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Young pup. U need to be a bit more respectful


man quit making up posts with my name in them lol


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> i understand what your saying but i like to try to help out my loyal customers if i can. you gotta understand im 25 and people are already kinda critical because of my age so i have more to prove than an older fella with 20 plus years experience...so if i can fish that copper through and save him the hassle of calling a tile guy when hes fully expecting to have to shell out more cash and pay that guy he's gonna be happier with me and more impressed that i can perform in "tight situations". does that sound like a bad mindset or am i overthinking it...?
> 
> and i wouldnt really call it a discount, just less work for me and him if i dont have to cut out the tiles and have them reset afterwards..


Been through that. If you can do a legitimate repair in an intelligent and clever way that saves your customer money, you will have earned their trust.


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> i understand what your saying but i like to try to help out my loyal customers if i can. you gotta understand im 25 and people are already kinda critical because of my age so i have more to prove than an older fella with 20 plus years experience...so if i can fish that copper through and save him the hassle of calling a tile guy when hes fully expecting to have to shell out more cash and pay that guy he's gonna be happier with me and more impressed that i can perform in "tight situations". does that sound like a bad mindset or am i overthinking it...?
> 
> and i wouldnt really call it a discount, just less work for me and him if i dont have to cut out the tiles and have them reset afterwards..


What works for me, may not be for you. Vice Versa. Take Care! :thumbsup:


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

Letterrip said:


> Been through that. If you can do a legitimate repair in an intelligent and clever way that saves your customer money, you will have earned their trust.


those were my thoughts.we will see!


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

[QUOTE...so if i can fish that copper through and save him the hassle of calling a tile guy when hes fully expecting to have to shell out more cash and pay that guy he's gonna be happier with me and more impressed that i can perform in "tight situations"

and i wouldnt really call it a discount, just less work for me and him if i dont have to cut out the tiles and have them reset afterwards..[/QUOTE]

Until a leak develops on the valve, or the piping on the very backside that you couldnt see that causes damage to the bathroom he spent time and money remodeling. THEN you have lost all the social capital you earned "saving him money" and "impressing" him. Not to mention your insurance gets dinged.

Now he has the "hassle" of dealing with the tile guy anyway, and a new plumber, AND a restoration crew. 

You want to save him hassle and impress him? Open the wall, ensure that everything is done right, back it up with photos, leak test everything. Then you both know that the job is done right. There's no second guessing, there's no worrying about him calling back cuz "theres still a problem".

The job has already been hacked once. Impress him with your thoroughness and commitment to ensure his property is safe from future water damage, no matter the initial cost. THAT impresses people far more than some fancy pipe work.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Pathmaker, do you change a valve in the wall using a repair plate? If so, you take the same chance of a leak on the back side of the joint that you cannot see.

You pre-solder the 90 outside, you open the hole for the spout stubout so you can fish the pipe through, and you make the final connection in the wall at the valve. No different. If you have concerns, tell the customer that you must cap the spout and head and open the valve to test for 24 hours before finishing the work. (Assuming you didn't travel an hour to get there). IMHO


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Letterrip said:


> Pathmaker, do you change a valve in the wall using a repair plate? If so, you take the same chance of a leak on the back side of the joint that you cannot see....


And on the eighth day, God created mirrors. And it was good.


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

Letterrip said:


> Pathmaker, do you change a valve in the wall using a repair plate? If so, you take the same chance of a leak on the back side of the joint that you cannot see.
> 
> You pre-solder the 90 outside, you open the hole for the spout stubout so you can fish the pipe through, and you make the final connection in the wall at the valve. No different. If you have concerns, tell the customer that you must cap the spout and head and open the valve to test for 24 hours before finishing the work. (Assuming you didn't travel an hour to get there). IMHO


As a rule, No I dont change valves using repair plates. I dont do any repairs that leave me guessing in the slightest. Full access every time on every repair or I walk. I'm not saying that it's wrong to do it that way. I'm not pointing any fingers at the way anyone else does their job. I just prefer not to do that kind of work no matter where it is in the home/business. 

I worked hard to get my license and good reputation and so did you. And we are all going to do things differently. All I am saying to younger plumber is that its a better idea to build the practices of caution, safety and common sense than trying to please the customer with less expensive fixes.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Fair enough. It's a balance between service to your customer and CYA. Everyone has to find that balance that they are comfortable with.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Letterrip said:


> Fair enough. It's a balance between service to your customer and CYA. Everyone has to find that balance that they are comfortable with.


Cygnus X-1


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> Cygnus X-1


???? Not following the black hole reference. (Yeah, I had to look it up).


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Letterrip said:


> ???? Not following the black hole reference. (Yeah, I had to look it up).


Add the word "rush" in your search bar


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

If its vinyl siding and you wanna work off a ladder you could unzip the siding and cut a hole in the outside wall. When you patch it all back up you would never be able to tell. May e one day people will realize its a horrible idea to install a valve on an outside wall.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

If the homeowner refused to open a wall here is what I'd do. 
Get myself an IPS tub spout, pre-solder a female elbow, measure your drop the the spout, solder the piece with the elbow into the body use an appropriately sized nipple or make one with two male adapters in a pinch and call it a day. This way it's only one solder joint in the wall right on the body, nice an easy to access. I'd also try my damnedest to find a way to support the spout. Maybe a split ring, rod and a masonry plate screwed to the sheathing. Might be a pain in the ass but I bet it can be done. 
Without getting support on it it's only goig to work if the body is well supported and the drop to the spout isn't so far that the tub spout is going to flop all over. In any case it will be better than what he has now even though not technically right.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> i understand what your saying but i like to try to help out my loyal customers if i can. you gotta understand im 25 and people are already kinda critical because of my age so i have more to prove than an older fella with 20 plus years experience...so if i can fish that copper through and save him the hassle of calling a tile guy when hes fully expecting to have to shell out more cash and pay that guy he's gonna be happier with me and more impressed that i can perform in "tight situations". does that sound like a bad mindset or am i overthinking it...?
> 
> and i wouldnt really call it a discount, just less work for me and him if i dont have to cut out the tiles and have them reset afterwards..


Well I'm 28. When I was 25 I had the same attitude you did. It's not an age thing, just a being new at running a business thing. I'll go ahead and tell you a few reasons why your thinking process is flawed. In order to fish pipe in, it will take you 2-3x longer than opening the wall. So if you're charging for that time you aren't saving him money. There are situations where this thinking is right. Like if its irreplaceable tile. Some 100 year old tile that you simply will not match. A couple year old tile doesn't fit in this category.

Someone screwed the pooch and installed this incorrectly. All you can do is not repeat the same mistakes. The spout will be loose if you fish it in. Just bid for the best job you can. He isn't going to be happier. Suppose you make a mistake and it leaks the fished in way. It's harder to see the joints and such. He will forget the extra mile you went to and be pissed off.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

The best advance I ever got from a master plumber was to allways open up your work space. Makes for easier repairs and better repairs. 24" x 24" hole in sheet rock is no harder to repair than a 48" x 48". Same for tile, might take the tile guy slightly longer to repair the same sizes, but you got out quicker and did a better job. Plumbing is concealed alot of the time, open it up to make the right repair. It is what it is, no need to sugar coat it.


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