# iron main feed snaped at wall



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

well today was going good till a simple job turned into a nightmare.
went to change a old ass galv water shut off and rest the house inner main and the meter against the wall while i changed it.. went to pull it back up to line up the meter with the union.. the damm iron pipe broke on me.. and now im stuck with a iron pipe cracked off at the wall.. like my day couldnt get no better..
well i did go and get a 1" led to iron union but ill have to go back tommrow and chisel out some wall .. enough to get the union on.. now this is my first time dealing with this problem.. we dont have many houses out here that have iron pipe.. but there is some.. any tips and helpful pointers u can suggest to me for tommrow before it gets worse on me.. i told the home owner if this dont work i will have to run a new feed from the B-Box to the meter.:furious: just not my day at allll


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

i didnt mean iron main feed .. i m too tired i cant even think right.. its led..
the main feed is led


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

hopefully you were not flat rate on this job


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Affordable said:


> i didnt mean iron main feed .. i m too tired i cant even think right.. its led..
> the main feed is led


Lead?


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

easy fix if its lead


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Number 1 

CALM DOWN...no big deal


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> hopefully you were not flat rate on this job


i was.... i only gave him a price to change the valve.. i didnt mean for something to turn into a nightmare...


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> Lead?


my "A" key on the keyboard dosent like to work all the time


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> easy fix if its lead


 it is.. i just hope when i got to chisel out the wall the Lead dont **** up worse then it is.. i really need about 3" more to get the lead iron union on...


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Affordable said:


> i was.... i only gave him a price to change the valve.. i didnt mean for something to turn into a nightmare...


Okay...

so remember lead will flow and seal to any metal....

do you have any copper the size of the lead .. if so you can solder your copper to the lead pipe... use low heat


----------



## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Chain yourself to the HO's kitchen table and sell them a new service line. :laughing:

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> Chain yourself to the HO's kitchen table and sell them a new service line. :laughing:
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


This guy needs help and you come out with a stupid comment like that


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Okay...
> 
> some remember lead will flow and seal to any metal....
> 
> do you have any copper the size of the lead .. if so you cn solder your copper to the lead pipe... use low heat


yes i do have all sizes of copper.. but i paid 40.00 for a lead iron union ... i just wish i didnt have to chisel out 3 or so more inches to get it on...


----------



## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> This guy needs help and you come out with a stupid comment like that


I'm trying to use humor to lighten the mood and calm the poor guy down.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


----------



## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Affordable said:


> yes i do have all sizes of copper.. but i paid 40.00 for a lead iron union ... i just wish i didnt have to chisel out 3 or so more inches to get it on...


If you solder a piece of copper into it you shouldn't have to really chisel out anything.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Affordable said:


> yes i do have all sizes of copper.. but i paid 40.00 for a lead iron union ... i just wish i didnt have to chisel out 3 or so more inches to get it on...


You can sweat it on ..... use the same size of lead pipe to copper...

clean the inside good of lead... paste it.. then clean copper and paste and use low heat and it will seal


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> If you solder a piece of copper into it you shouldn't have to really chisel out anything.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


so wait.. u can sweat in copper into lead? cause this is not something that is something new to me.. every time i tryed it never worked...


----------



## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Affordable said:


> so wait.. u can sweat in copper into lead? cause this is not something that is something new to me.. every time i tryed it never worked...


Your not soldering it, you are melting the Lead to the copper, should have worded that differently 

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Affordable said:


> so wait.. u can sweat in copper into lead? cause this is not something that is something new to me.. every time i tryed it never worked...


yes you can sweat lead into copper...


move torch in and out..... you need very little heat from the torch ...


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

so u r saying i should hit a fitting into it.. then heat the lead up and get a good bond then even heat up a lil lead bar in my spoon and pour a lil more on it and wipe it? like in the old days? think that will hold on a 1" main line


----------



## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I think I'll let oldschool explain this, as he has more experience then me with this

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Affordable said:


> so u r saying i should hit a fitting into it.. then heat the lead up and get a good bond then even heat up a lil lead bar in my spoon and pour a lil more on it and wipe it? like in the old days? think that will hold on a 1" main line


This is what I do...

I expand the lead... to the size of the copper


I clean everything and I paste then with low heat..... in and out.... i melt the lead to the copper


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

and well i did admit it was kind of my fault.. cause i should of took a lil more care into the way i was moving the pipe. i didnt know it was lead till after it broke.. but u know im doing what i have to to make it work.. how ever if this dont work.. and it comes down to replace a new service feed.. well then at this point he gonna have to meet me half way .. so if i charge what ever its half of that ... cause its not a easy fix.. hte b-box is 4' and the main in the house is 7' and 40' long how ever i can still trench it at about 4' and bring a new feed in.. but the object lays is bushes, sidewalks and got to wait for julie and monday to even get the permit..


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> yes you can sweat lead into copper...
> 
> 
> move torch in and out..... you need very little heat from the torch ...


That's news to me.. I used a brass union (glav if not available) "screw"the half of the union and ballpeen the lead to union mating surface then put the rest of union on and tighten.. now you have female ips thread to work from..


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

i know basic lead but never had to actually do a water line repair on led. now if it was a hub on a Drain it be fair to do, i got running ropes etc but water lines i dont want this thing to brake loose and flood his basement then im gonna have to pay for basement flooding.....


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Affordable said:


> i know basic lead but never had to actually do a water line repair on led. now if it was a hub on a Drain it be fair to do, i got running ropes etc but water lines i dont want this thing to brake loose and flood his basement then im gonna have to pay for basement flooding.....


 Not if ya sell him a sump pump package... where about in Ill are you?


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> That's news to me.. I used a brass union (glav if not available) "screw"the half of the union and ballpeen the lead to union mating surface then put the rest of union on and tighten.. now you have female ips thread to work from..


 
I have had a lot of companies refuse to fix peoples main lin lines... I have never failed yet,,,

Lead likes to seal to copper... very simple..

so a lead main is easy to fix...


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I have had a lot of companies refuse to fix peoples main lin lines... I have never filed yet,,,
> 
> Lead likes to seal to copper... very simple..
> 
> so a lead main is easy to fix...


 " lin" ????


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> That's news to me.. I used a brass union (glav if not available) "screw"the half of the union and ballpeen the lead to union mating surface then put the rest of union on and tighten.. now you have female ips thread to work from..


rjbphd i know what u r talkin about.. i have that fitting and i was told by my cousin who is also a plumber the same thing.. he told me to get the lead iron union get enough of it to get past the seal ring and hit it just a lil bit if it dont want to go on easy.. and tighten and then just thread my male into the female side of the lead iron union and go from there.. i just hope it works out that way.. but thanks man i knew i wasnt loosing my mind on the sweat to lead cause i didnt think that was even a ideal


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> " lin" ????


I really dont know what that means..


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Not if ya sell him a sump pump package... where about in Ill are you?



South Cook County. Chicago heights but the job is in ever green park 
98th and kedzie


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Affordable said:


> rjbphd i know what u r talkin about.. i have that fitting and i was told by my cousin who is also a plumber the same thing.. he told me to get the lead iron union get enough of it to get past the seal ring and hit it just a lil bit if it dont want to go on easy.. and tighten and then just thread my male into the female side of the lead iron union and go from there.. i just hope it works out that way.. but thanks man i knew i wasnt loosing my mind on the sweat to lead cause i didnt think that was even a ideal


 Okay but I never heard or seen a " lead iron union" as I've always used ( twice) a regular union.


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Okay but I never heard or seen a " lead iron union" as I've always used ( twice) a regular union.


here ill go run out to the van and get it and take a picture give me one min


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Affordable said:


> South Cook County. Chicago heights but the job is in ever green park
> 98th and kedzie


 City of lead pipings!


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Affordable said:


> rjbphd i know what u r talkin about.. i have that fitting and i was told by my cousin who is also a plumber the same thing.. he told me to get the lead iron union get enough of it to get past the seal ring and hit it just a lil bit if it dont want to go on easy.. and tighten and then just thread my male into the female side of the lead iron union and go from there.. i just hope it works out that way.. but thanks man i knew i wasnt loosing my mind on the sweat to lead cause i didnt think that was even a ideal


All I can tell you is follow my insrtuctions.. I have done it many times before...

I am talking about experience.... I have done it and it is proven....


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> All I can tell you is follow my insrtuctions.. I have done it many times before...
> 
> I am talking about experience.... I have done it and it is proven....


 I believe ya Old School.. now I gonna find me some lin pipe to break...


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I really dont know what that means..


 That's what you typed !!


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> That's what you typed !!


 If i did it was a screw up lmaf


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> If i did it was a screw up lmaf


Step away from the Chivas Regal!


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

U666A said:


> Step away from the Chivas Regal!


 Laughing... last call for OS in the lounge!


----------



## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

And please, I mean pretty please, charge more than you did for clearing that sewer line, it's not your fault their ish is jacked up...... Well maybe it is but make them pay a reasonable price for your skilled labor, correct tools, vehicle, gas you put in, ins and reg, time to get permits, a down payment on a Harley and so on

A) you gave them a set price to do a simple task- not worse case scenario 
B) if their system was any good it wouldn't have happened
C) renig on a price that you are happy with, it won't seem so much like dreaded work but a good wage for a good job, it's easy to get walked on by pushy customers, if they don't want to pay your fair price give them a bill for breaking it and go on with your day


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Okay but I never heard or seen a " lead iron union" as I've always used ( twice) a regular union.


----------



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

What is a B-Box?


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

How did you know ... Lol

Sent from my miniature laptop


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

HillsidePlumbco said:


> And please, I mean pretty please, charge more than you did for clearing that sewer line, it's not your fault their ish is jacked up...... Well maybe it is but make them pay a reasonable price for your skilled labor, correct tools, vehicle, gas you put in, ins and reg, time to get permits, a down payment on a Harley and so on
> 
> A) you gave them a set price to do a simple task- not worse case scenario
> B) if their system was any good it wouldn't have happened
> C) renig on a price that you are happy with, it won't seem so much like dreaded work but a good wage for a good job, it's easy to get walked on by pushy customers, if they don't want to pay your fair price give them a bill for breaking it and go on with your day


 ya i know the yellow pages is killing me right now. but u know i will try to make sure its a fair price i give him.. and no.. i will not make a mistake like i did on that jet job.. i lost my ass in a way on that .. but how ever i did go and buy a spartan 717 jetter after that .. already used it 2 times since then.:thumbup:


----------



## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Seems to me if I had lead water pipes I would want a repipe to get rid of the lead. Some people are even paranoid about 50/50 solder. Copper repipe should not be to hard to sell.


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

gear junkie said:


> What is a B-Box?


Buffalo box


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Oh those... never used them, just regular union and next time be extra careful with them old "lin" piping!


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

Plumb Bob said:


> Seems to me if I had lead water pipes I would want a repipe to get rid of the lead. Some people are even paranoid about 50/50 solder. Copper repipe should not be to hard to sell.


 i thought that lead was not to be used no more anyways due to the effects that comes with it? but hey what do i know.. laws change every hour seems like


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Oh those... never used them, just regular union and next time be extra careful with them old "lin" piping!



umm lol im sure i missed this part .. but what is a lin pipe?

but yes i get what u mean .. i should of been more careful with it.. i admit i was not being proper .. i figgured its copper it will hold


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Affordable said:


> i thought that lead was not to be used no more anyways due to the effects that comes with it? but hey what do i know.. laws change every hour seems like


 you got options... change the whole main line or make a fix


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> What is a B-Box?


 Pretty obvious that you don't live in frost area,, b-box is a tele scoping tube connected to shut off valve below frost line, and extended to ground surface. Supposly invented in Buffalo NY, hence, b-box..


----------



## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Affordable said:


> i thought that lead was not to be used no more anyways due to the effects that comes with it? but hey what do i know.. laws change every hour seems like


Yeah, but there is a thing called "LEAD POISONING "


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Affordable said:


> umm lol im sure i missed this part .. but what is a lin pipe?
> 
> but yes i get what u mean .. i should of been more careful with it.. i admit i was not being proper .. i figgured its copper it will hold


 Old School typo for lead while he was pouring a new drink..


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumb Bob said:


> Yeah, but there is a thing called "LEAD POISONING "


 if that was the case you would be brain dead


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Pretty obvious that you don't live in frost area,, b-box is a tele scoping tube connected to shut off valve below frost line, and extended to ground surface. Supposly invented in Buffalo NY, hence, b-box..


yes most b-box(buffalo box) is about 4' to 6' deep .. witch is to shut off the water to the house at the s treet incase this issue happens.. and i know my shut off key i got is about 8' in height cause they range on the depth on the b-box:thumbup:


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Old School typo for lead while he was pouring a new drink..



lol


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumb Bob said:


> Yeah, but there is a thing called "LEAD POISONING "


All bullshxt and media misleading the public.. as lead being coated with caluiim and other crap in water, netrual ph, lead will not leach out of lead pipe water service.. there are thousand and thousand of them in service now with NO signefecnt(sp) of lead posioning... there was another thread on this subject.


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> if that was the case you would be brain dead


 Right on!! I'll drink to that!


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Affordable said:


> lol


You just want me to fly down and make the repair


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> How did you know ... Lol
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


When I used to knock em back, The Glenlivet was my absolute favourite! I would buy a 40# twice a year, sometimes 12 YO, sometimes 15.

I never understood people who claimed to enjoy a nice single malt, then reached for glenfiddich... Yuk.


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> You just want me to fly down and make the repair


I'll be honor to meet ya!


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

well everyone ill check back the topics in the morning and the replys.. good night everyone i got a long day tommrow.. ill sleep on the ideal of the using a copper fitting in it.. and heating the led up low .. but im not to sure i feel to secure about about that ideal. and if it dont work and it leaks im gonna be ****ed and have to dig up the outside... so i really dont know what im going to do i do have the proper adapter maybe ill use it.. anyways everyone had good points on this topic.. glad to get everyones feed back.. see everyone in the morning.. night... ... RJB ill talk to u tommrow man...


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> I'll be honor to meet ya!


I meant. Honored


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

U666A said:


> When I used to knock em back, The Glenlivet was my absolute favourite! I would buy a 40# twice a year, sometimes 12 YO, sometimes 15.
> 
> I never understood people who claimed to enjoy a nice single malt, then reached for glenfiddich... Yuk.


actually i got that scotch from a costomer of mine..

_ did him a favour _


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Affordable said:


> well everyone ill check back the topics in the morning and the replys.. good night everyone i got a long day tommrow.. ill sleep on the ideal of the using a copper fitting in it.. and heating the led up low .. but im not to sure i feel to secure about about that ideal. and if it dont work and it leaks im gonna be ****ed and have to dig up the outside... so i really dont know what im going to do i do have the proper adapter maybe ill use it.. anyways everyone had good points on this topic.. glad to get everyones feed back.. see everyone in the morning.. night... ... RJB ill talk to u tommrow man...


I told you once ... actually more than once how to repair it


----------



## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Led lin pipe connected to a buffalo?

You Mid-Westerners...I tell ya, I don't know about that.

I probably walk away from more jobs than I should, but better that than led lin buffalo pipes.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I think if I ran across lead pipe I wouldnt touch it and I sure wouldn't repair it !!!


----------



## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Oldschool

You should get a video camera like Dunbar. I would like to see the above fix on video. I have only seen lead "city" water lines so all descriptions are greek to me. We do have tons of brass waste arm into lead pipe connections here and it would be damn handy to see how to re-sweat one in.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Them there are ford packs. I have a tool box full of varies sizes and for the different thickness of lead pipe. We keep them in stock for that just in case moment while digging a sewer.




Affordable said:


>


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Them there are ford packs. I have a tool box full of varies sizes and for the different thickness of lead pipe. We keep them in stock for that just in case moment while digging a sewer.


theres my buddy ron .. hehehe glad to see u feeling better bro.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Affordable said:


> theres my buddy ron .. hehehe glad to see u feeling better bro.


Thanks, I can breath now that most of the clots are gone. The docs just need to get my blood thinner under control.

Those ford packs work great, so do not have any worries using it.


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> Thanks, I can breath now that most of the clots are gone. The docs just need to get my blood thinner under control.
> 
> Those ford packs work great, so do not have any worries using it.


Glad youre feeling better Ron.

:thumbup:


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Those Ford fittings are super reliable and durable (unlike their baztardized, hack-friendly cousins the sharkbites), but I don't see the stainless steel stiffener in your pic, Affordable.

When you use Ford restraining compression fitting on soft pipe (anything besides copper or steel), you need to be sure to use the stiffener insert inside the soft pipe you are connecting to or you may have an unpleasant call back months later when it blows apart 


Good to hear you're on the mend, SewerRatz...hopefully you'll be back out with poop on your boots soon :thumbsup:


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Steps for Installation
1. Make sure pipe is round, not flattened. On copper tubing use a rounding tool, if necessary.
Clean or scrape off any dirt or corrosion so that surface is smooth.
2. The tubing should be inserted into the fitting so that the end of the tubing is well past the
rubber seal gasket. If the nut or socket appears too large for pipe, a check should be made to
be sure you are using the correct fitting or that pipe is of proper diameter.
3. Tighten Pack Joint nut 1 to 1-1/2 turns after gasket starts to compress. If clamp screw is not
accessible, reposition by further tightening Pack Joint nut.
4. To ensure against blowout of pipe, tighten the clamp screw very securely. A socket or box end
wrench is preferable to a screwdriver. Avoid overtightening that could distort pipe and tubing.
5. ALWAYS PRESSURE TEST FOR LEAKS BEFORE BACKFILLING.
6. CONSULT PIPE OR TUBING MANUFACTURER FOR SPECIFIC INSTALLATION
REQUIREMENTS.
PRECAUTIONS
1. Brass fittings can be damaged by improper handling. Protect threads. Avoid loose fitting
wrenches. Do not drop. Backfill and compact carefully so that fittings are not stressed by the
weight of the earth.
2. If you are unfamiliar with Pack Joint connections, a little practice and testing in the shop
before going on the job is time well spent.
3. Use Ford solid tubular metal insert stiffeners with any plastic pipe that is likely to distort or
cold flow under pressure of the Pack Joint rubber or clamp squeeze.
4. For best results, minimize tubing/pipe deflection at each connection and make sure each
connection and clamp screw is properly tightened.
5. Inspect and test all joints, valves, and fittings for leaks before backfilling. If this is
impossible and when several are involved, be sure to test system as job progresses instead
of waiting until all services are completed. Making repairs after backfilling is costly.
6. Use extra care with higher water pressures (over 100psi) and with pipe over 1".
WARNING: Do not use on gas lines. Installation on gas lines
can result in serious injury or death.
AVOID LOOSE-FITTING WRENCHES AND PIPE WRENCHES.
IMPROPER WRENCH USAGE CAN DAMAGE PRODUCT
WARRANTY - READ BEFORE INSTALLING
All merchandise is warranted to be free from defects in material and factory workmanship.
We will provide free of charge new products in equal quantities for any that prove defective
within one year from date of shipment from our factory. Manufacturer shall not be liable for
any loss, damage, or injury, direct or consequential, arising out of the use of or the inability to
use the product. Before using, user shall determine the suitability of product for his intended
use and user assumes all risk and liability whatever in connection therewith. No claims for
labor or consequential damage will be allowed. The foregoing may not be changed except by
agreement signed by an officer of the manufacturer.
DAMAGE CAUSED BY IMPROPER TOOLS OR HANDLING
WILL VOID OUR WARRANTY
IMPORTANT NOTICE - READ CAREFULLY BEFORE INSTALLATION
INSTRUCTIONS FOR PACK JOINT CONNECTIONS
The Ford Pack Joint is a simple
convenient method for connecting
to almost any kind of pipe or tube -
iron, brass, copper, or various kinds
of plastic
Clamp Screw
Wrench flats for
Pack Joint Nut
EPDM Rubber Gasket
with backup gasket
Split Clamp with Grooves Threads on body
of value or fitting
THE FORD METER BOX COMPANY, INC.
P.O. Box 443, Wabash, Indiana, USA 46992-0443
Phone: 260-563-3171 • Domestic FAX: 800-826-3487
Overseas FAX: 260-563-0167 • http://www.fordmeterbox.com
020053 03/11


Link to pick of stiffeners: http://www.fordmeterbox.com/catalog/j/flippingbook/jindex.html#/6/


----------



## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> if that was the case you would be brain dead


I'm not the one using lead for water pipes.


----------



## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

As he was told a way to fix it by oldschool I'm sure he will be back with good news!


----------



## Affordable (May 22, 2012)

ok well i didnt try the way oldschool said.. due to im just not to secure on knowing that any day his basement can turn into a giant swimming pool and ill have to answer for it.. so i used the led iron union .. either way i posted images somewhere on this thread earlier yesterday but anyways it worked. i feel more secure this way.. i really cant afford to get sued right now.. 

Thanks everyone for your support .. still i ll keep in mind all the other ideals.. i didnt say oldschools ideal wont work.. i just dont feel to safe about it.. and if i dont feel safe then i cant sleep. either way.. im getting ready for bed. i got to go do dennys in the morning got 2 p-traps to install and 2 floor sinks to install and then call the inspector and hope hes there within a few hours .. cause i will sure like to concrete it in..... and go home


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> All bullshxt and media misleading the public.. as lead being coated with caluiim and other crap in water, netrual ph, lead will not leach out of lead pipe water service.. there are thousand and thousand of them in service now with NO signefecnt(sp) of lead posioning... there was another thread on this subject.


I will try to find the article I read recently where the took random water tests at a new school that was built and found a high content of lead from a low lead brass valve. It took them a bit to find but after they changed it no more high lead results. Lead does leach out and lead is bad for us. What you are saying is worse than someone trying to scare the public and downplay the issue.


----------



## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Gettinit said:


> I will try to find the article I read recently where the took random water tests at a new school that was built and found a high content of lead from a low lead brass valve. It took them a bit to find but after they changed it no more high lead results. Lead does leach out and lead is bad for us. What you are saying is worse than someone trying to scare the public and downplay the issue.


Yeah, I'm positive that we'd have to condemn the led lin buffalo pipe if we found it. No way in hell would we be allowed to repair it and they do fine us big big for stuff far less than lead.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Mississippiplum said:


> I think I'll let oldschool explain this, as he has more experience then me with this
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


No kidding!


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Old school's way of fixing the issue may work but is not approved here in Illinois. If anyone wanted to repair the pipe with out a ford pack fitting, then you have to wipe a lead joint using an approved adapter fitting. This way you are covered by your general liability insurance for making a proper repair, the way Old School said to do it, they can deny the claim.

As for lead getting into the drinking water, it has been proven the lead pipes do not leach any lead into the water as long as they are undisturbed. The issue with a low lead brass valve is when the valve is used, the metal to metal contact does some grinding, and allows some metal to get into the drinking water. I recall a study where they took a water sample from an old style brass faucet right when it was first turned on, the lead was 700+ppm, they let the faucet run for 30 seconds took another sample and the lead went down to 4 ppm. They figured out that when the faucet is turned on the metal to metal contact allowed the metal to grind off raising the ppm


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumb Bob said:


> I'm not the one using lead for water pipes.


Don't be so sure of it...
You've probably sipped out of more lead pipe than you know of... :yes:


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Here is a good cut-a-way pic of the proper fitting


----------



## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> I will try to find the article I read recently where the took random water tests at a new school that was built and found a high content of lead from a low lead brass valve. It took them a bit to find but after they changed it no more high lead results. Lead does leach out and lead is bad for us. What you are saying is worse than someone trying to scare the public and downplay the issue.


He's right about it being coated. People oftan say the fall of Rome was from the lead pipes but thats false, their pipes were coated on the insides. 

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/wine/leadpoisoning.html


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Glad to hear you got it fixed......

Some day you might have to try the alternative way..

At least you will have options

Sent from my miniature laptop


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Old school's way of fixing the issue may work but is not approved here in Illinois. If anyone wanted to repair the pipe with out a ford pack fitting, then you have to wipe a lead joint using an approved adapter fitting. This way you are covered by your general liability insurance for making a proper repair, the way Old School said to do it, they can deny the claim.
> 
> As for lead getting into the drinking water, it has been proven the lead pipes do not leach any lead into the water as long as they are undisturbed. The issue with a low lead brass valve is when the valve is used, the metal to metal contact does some grinding, and allows some metal to get into the drinking water. I recall a study where they took a water sample from an old style brass faucet right when it was first turned on, the lead was 700+ppm, they let the faucet run for 30 seconds took another sample and the lead went down to 4 ppm. They figured out that when the faucet is turned on the metal to metal contact allowed the metal to grind off raising the ppm


As long as...yes maybe but there is always something breaking, a fire dept testing a hydrant, the city working valves....I am not saying that this scientific find is wrong I am saying lead is dangerous and people shouldn't go around downplaying it. In a perfect world we would have no problems but it is not perfect. 

As far as coating it had to do with the extremely hard water and its characteristics that"coated" the pipe.

No matter what scientist and what study everyone knows lead is dangerous for us to consume. Getting rid of it all to safe guard or families is something that should be done because it is not a perfect world and things happen. Safeguarding the public is something we are supposed to do. That is all I am saying.


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Plumber said:


> Yeah, I'm positive that we'd have to condemn the led lin buffalo pipe if we found it. No way in hell would we be allowed to repair it and they do fine us big big for stuff far less than lead.


Many code books have safeguards for theme that also benefit us. There should be a rule in there that says something to the affect that repairs being made should be brought up to current code. Most often times it is a little crazy, but when it comes to safety I take full advantage of it.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

If you actually knew what's in your drinking water.... You would never drink again

Sent from my miniature laptop


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

And all I am saying is we have a whole city of people (Chicago) that have been drinking from plumbing systems that have lead pipe water services and we have not had an epidemic of lead poisoning. I am not saying it is not possible of happening. Just pointing out that people in our area (Chicago and its suburbs) do not need to go out in a panic and spend money to replace their lead services. 

Or maybe the lead in my drinking water has impaired my thinking.


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> If you actually knew what's in your drinking water.... You would never drink again
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


My wife works for a local municipality, I know more than I want. It is hard to swallow even with a good filter.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> If you actually knew what's in your drinking water.... You would never drink again
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


And bottled water is even better since it is unregulated.... :laughing:

There is one spring water outfit near here that has their source under a "Boil Advisory" after every heavy rainfall... Good Stuff! :laughing:


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Redwood said:


> And bottled water is even better since it is unregulated.... :laughing:
> 
> There is one spring water outfit near here that has their source under a "Boil Advisory" after every heavy rainfall... Good Stuff! :laughing:


I believe the only thing not regulated is "spring water".


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Gettinit said:


> I believe the only thing not regulated is "spring water".


Guess Again! :yes:

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/0...tions-for-bottled-water-than-tap-g-33331.html

And it costs more than gasoline....


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Redwood said:


> Guess Again! :yes:
> 
> And it costs more than gasoline....


That's disheartening. Stick to the filtered water as local bottling companies use their tap water then filter it before being sent out.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> Here is a good cut-a-way pic of the proper fitting


Attached Thumbnails





Excellent thread! I have never worked with or have even seen for that matter, a lead water service pipe. Thanks to all you colleagues of mine who know how to repair a pressurized lead water service....:thumbsup:

I've only seen those Ford fittings on a black poly water main; where the underground utility contractor feeds a water meter. The mains are installed in a black poly piping, and when there is the need to install a brass valve, the Ford fitting is installed, then the brass valve.

Thanks Sewer Ratz for posting a cut-away veiw of the wiped joint. Glad you are on the mend too.....:thumbup:


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Just make sure it is an actual pack joint and not just a compression coupling if you can get away with it. The nuts on those keep the pipe from moving laterally. Most often around here they are only found at the local waterworks. They also make PVC transitions as well.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Just make sure it is an actual pack joint and not just a compression coupling if you can get away with it. The nuts on those keep the pipe from moving laterally. Most often around here they are only found at the local waterworks. They also make PVC transitions as well.


 






http://www.hughessupply.com/branchlocations.asp

Thanks. I used to keep a few of those fittings on the truck; the only place I found them was at Hughs Underground supply house. My other regular supply houses didn't carry fittings for water mains, meters, meter yolks, etc. Once I was trying to repair the line at a water meter (here in FL the water meters are out near the streets, not in a basement) and the fittings I needed were only at Hughs.


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> http://www.hughessupply.com/branchlocations.asp
> 
> Thanks. I used to keep a few of those fittings on the truck; the only place I found them was at Hughs Underground supply house. My other regular supply houses didn't carry fittings for water mains, meters, meter yolks, etc. Once I was trying to repair the line at a water meter (here in FL the water meters are out near the streets, not in a basement) and the fittings I needed were only at Hughs.[/QUOTE
> 
> They are at the road here as well. There are even some that have flare joints at the meters. I have a flaring tool for it in case the copper cannot be tied back onto when changing out the water main.


----------



## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> And all I am saying is we have a whole city of people (Chicago) that have been drinking from plumbing systems that have lead pipe water services and we have not had an epidemic of lead poisoning. I am not saying it is not possible of happening. Just pointing out that people in our area (Chicago and its suburbs) do not need to go out in a panic and spend money to replace their lead services.
> 
> _Or maybe the lead in my drinking water has impaired my thinking_.


Ya think? We're talking Chicago and Illinois, the two most corrupt places in America.

I bet only poor people drink unfiltered water. Some states---most states---really worry about led lin buffalo conditions and it would not fly here.

To be fair, I could write a book on the drinking water in this county, but it would be a crime novel. And I don't drink it.


----------



## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I normally use a pack joint coupling with ferrule on the lead side rather than wiping a joint. Unless it is an odd sized service or a odd shape due to damage. Cinci has alot of lead services still in service. I have about 50' of lead service in a bucket in the garage just waiting to be a cast boolit!


----------



## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

RealCraftsMan said:


> He's right about it being coated. People oftan say the fall of Rome was from the lead pipes but thats false, their pipes were coated on the insides.
> 
> In rome it wasn't just the lead piping! It was everything was lead for the rich and oppulent dishes, cooking utensils, pots, pans, silverware ETC!
> 
> It was lead poisoning just lead leached from cooking in lead pots more than a lead water service!


----------



## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Romans liked the taste of lead and would use it to season their food. ack.


----------

