# Bath Fitter Upgrade



## plbgbiz

Quite a difference....


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## plbgbiz

...


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## 1703

Is that a new tub or liner over the old one?


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## plbgbiz

Colgar said:


> Is that a new tub or liner over the old one?


It's a liner over the old tub and wall.


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## 504Plumber

plbgbiz said:


> It's a liner over the old tub and wall.


Do you know how much they charged? Had a lady a couple weeks back that had it done but for tub, shower walls and faucet it was 4 grand, she had to call us a month after it was done to unstop the drum trap that was left...


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## plbgbiz

Not exactly sure what this one cost but for a complete job anywhere from 3 to 5 is common. Drums do get left behind on some jobs since we don't always even know they are there.

For the liner, if the drain spud comes out clean and there are no other issues with the W/O, then we just put a new drain spud in.

If the tub were actually being replaced then the drum would always be removed.


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## user2090

Love the looks of the new stuff. Bath Fitters installs done correctly look awesome. 

What are they going to do about shelves? While the old ones looked like a dog turd, that stuff had to go somewhere.


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## plbgbiz

Indie said:


> ...What are they going to do about shelves?...


Don't know ND. They'll probably use the back rail of the tub for some things.


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## easttexasplumb

Replace that commode.


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## plbgbiz

Here's another....


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## 504Plumber

plbgbiz said:


> Not exactly sure what this one cost but for a complete job anywhere from 3 to 5 is common. Drums do get left behind on some jobs since we don't always even know they are there.
> 
> For the liner, if the drain spud comes out clean and there are no other issues with the W/O, then we just put a new drain spud in.
> 
> If the tub were actually being replaced then the drum would always be removed.


That's kind of what I was getting at, don't know what labor rates are up there but down here 4,000 would get a brand new tub, faucet, change drum trap tile surround and probably a decent amount left over. I'm not too fond of the one she had done, maybe because it wasn't cultured marble, just didn't look right...


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## Plumber Jim

I came across one of those bath fitter jobs a few months back. a property management company i do work for called me to look at a tub the customer said it had water under it. I get there and it had water between the liner and the tub. was like walking on a water bed. lol I spoke with the property owner and he was going to pull the invoice and get the company that put it in to come back because it was less than a year old. how do they seal those?


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## plbgbiz

504Plumber said:


> That's kind of what I was getting at, don't know what labor rates are up there but down here 4,000 would get a brand new tub, faucet, change drum trap tile surround and probably a decent amount left over. I'm not too fond of the one she had done, maybe because it wasn't cultured marble, just didn't look right...


It's not so much the labor rate as it is the cost of the materials and the custom manufacturing of them. Anything custom made to fit an existing situation will usually cost a bit more than one-size-fits-all fixtures from an assembly line.

We are usually on and off of the job in one day and everything has a lifetime labor and material warranty (including the new faucet). That time frame and warranty can't be had here from any one else for any price.

There are some options here that cost less money too. Not everything is for everybody.


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## plbgbiz

Plumber Jim said:


> ...how do they seal those?


Floaters suck when they happen. There is a urethane seal around the perimeter of the tub. If done properly, the liner is water proof before the silicone.

It's not a perfect world but that is covered in our lifetime warranty just in case.


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## Widdershins

plbgbiz said:


> Floaters suck when they happen. There is a urethane seal around the perimeter of the tub. If done properly, the liner is water proof before the silicone.
> 
> It's not a perfect world but that is covered in our lifetime warranty just in case.


 Sounds like a pretty neat system.


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## Plumber Jim

plbgbiz said:


> Floaters suck when they happen. There is a urethane seal around the perimeter of the tub. If done properly, the liner is water proof before the silicone.
> 
> It's not a perfect world but that is covered in our lifetime warranty just in case.


So, that's what you call them. floaters huh? hehe So I assume the water must have gotten in from either the overflow or the tub shoe. how are those connections sealed to prevent that? just curious.


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## 504Plumber

Plumber Jim said:


> So, that's what you call them. floaters huh? hehe So I assume the water must have gotten in from either the overflow or the tub shoe. how are those connections sealed to prevent that? just curious.


The one I worked on had half a tube of silicone around the overflow.


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## plbgbiz

Not likely that it leaked in from the shoe. If so, it should have leaked back out. If water was trapped in the floor of the original tub then the spud was obviously sealed very well.

The overflow would be my guess if all it had was silicone. Bath Fitter has a proprietary fitting that seals from the liner into the overflow. Any Bath Fitter tub should have had that fitting installed. 

If that really was a Bath Fitter install, it will definitely be covered under their warranty.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

I used to bash these companies pretty hard years ago when they first came to town. 

I then went soft over the years as I noticed the product was actually pretty decent, compared to the cheap **** new construction plumbers were using, and anything beats a $79 white steel tub.

I actually believe in the product over the years because a lot of these companies promise 1 day installation most times. No mess, dust, and mostly no surprises. Of course, they all get hid in the walls.

But the finish usually seems really good, like an acrylic finish. 


It proves that some people will pay more for a finished product if the convenience is minimal, and some of the bathroom remodels I've done, take weeks. Most won't hold still for that in this day and age.

Sometimes the lines are so smooth in that product that you can barely read a corner. You try to buy those walls at the big box store and they put all these built in shelves and ripples to make it stiff, sounds hollow and if UV rays or bright lights from the lighting will yellow that product in no time flat. Garbage.

Since those 1 day outfits have product plumbing supply houses won't even sell it seems, it's a far better product.


Only thing I've seen even remotely close to that level of finished quality was swanstone that came in flat 3/8" sheets, but was very expensive. 


As long as they make the upgrades to the drain assemblies on the tubs, It doesn't really matter on the faucets; I can access them no matter what and get those 100%. 

Drains however when they leave that old linkage for actuating the pop-up? I get pretty pissed as I cannot clear a drain in that type of scenario.


And I truly love it when they sweep everything into the drain and it clogs. I charge aplenty for those calls knowing I'm bumping $30-$50 into the customer's pocket as well for 'inconvenience' fee. Customer love that move by the plumber.


*#winning*


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## Will

Do you have to demo any thing to install the liners? Not a bad set up if it holds up. It would take me 3-4 days to demo out the old tub and surround and go back with a heavy cast iron tub and new tille surround, and I'd kick up alot of dust.


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> Do you have to demo any thing to install the liners...


Only if there are wall repairs needed. The wall units and tub liners go over the existing units. Some showers take a day and a half but all the tub and wall jobs are finished in one day.

If the existing is a fiberglass unit we have to remove it first. Still it is usually completed in one day. Day and a half max.


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## Marlin

From what I've seen Bath Fitters is a decent project. Their are some other companies doing the same thing that aren't as good. However you always get what you pay for. If you don't open the walls/floors and change everything then just because everything looks shiny and new on the outside doesn't mean you won't have problems with things that weren't changed. 

For example.
I went on a call about six months ago for water coming through a ceiling. I get there and it was a bath fitter tub. So I determine it to be the waste line, open up the plaster ceiling and the trip lever is rotted through. Normally that's not a problem but the eighty year old trip lever is 2" and a 1.5" won't work. I can't find a 2" trip lever anywhere locally and they need the bathroom working again that day. Finally I find one for a whirlpool tub but I have to drive into the city to get it. I forget exactly what I did but using the 2" and an 1-1/2" I made one to fit. I think I had to enlarge the drain hole in the tub as well to get it to work. 

When all was said and done it took almost 8 hours to do the whole job including an hour hunting for parts and two and a half hours driving to pick them up. It cost them almost three grand in labor and material to change out that trip lever plus whatever they paid to repair the plaster ceiling. I bet they could have done the whole bathroom for what they paid for the repairs and Bath Fitters combined.


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## Pipecommandor

Marlin said:


> From what I've seen Bath Fitters is a decent project. Their are some other companies doing the same thing that aren't as good. However you always get what you pay for. If you don't open the walls/floors and change everything then just because everything looks shiny and new on the outside doesn't mean you won't have problems with things that weren't changed.
> 
> For example.
> I went on a call about six months ago for water coming through a ceiling. I get there and it was a bath fitter tub. So I determine it to be the waste line, open up the plaster ceiling and the trip lever is rotted through. Normally that's not a problem but the eighty year old trip lever is 2" and a 1.5" won't work. I can't find a 2" trip lever anywhere locally and they need the bathroom working again that day. Finally I find one for a whirlpool tub but I have to drive into the city to get it. I forget exactly what I did but using the 2" and an 1-1/2" I made one to fit. I think I had to enlarge the drain hole in the tub as well to get it to work.
> 
> When all was said and done it took almost 8 hours to do the whole job including an hour hunting for parts and two and a half hours driving to pick them up. It cost them almost three grand in labor and material to change out that trip lever plus whatever they paid to repair the plaster ceiling. I bet they could have done the whole bathroom for what they paid for the repairs and Bath Fitters combined.


Who do you justify three grand for a waste & overflow ??? WTF


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## Marlin

Pipecommandor said:


> Who do you justify three grand for a waste & overflow ??? WTF


You make it sound like it was three grand to change a ten year old trip lever over an unfinished basement.

It was a full day job at time and material.
They didn't want to wait for parts to come in which would have saved them quite a bit. They insisted on having it done that day no matter what the price. So they paid the full labor rate to locate and get parts, three and a half hours right there. Then the initial drive time to the job, diagnosing, time and material to make a plastic tent since they insisted their can be absolutely no dust created opening a wire lath ceiling, removing the old trip lever and waste, piecing together a trip lever from three differant ones to work and fit properly, cutting the cast iron tub and plastic liner to accept the new trip lever and piping it in. 

For material the only 2" assembly available was in brushed nickle so that's what they got. A 2" Kohler brushed nickle trip lever is far from being cheap. Since I used pieces from that assembly and a standard assembly they were billed for both pieces plus markup on them and whatever PVC was used to re-pipe the waste. 

So eight hours of labor, I won't say what the rate is but it's probably more then most people on here charge. Everything is more expensive in the Peoples Republic of New York. Then you a hefty price tag for the material. Now tack 8.5% sales tax on top of that. Maybe the total was closer to $2500, $3000 is probably a little exaggeration. Yes it could have been done cheaper but they would have had to wait for parts which they were unwilling to do. 

In the end the customer got what they wanted and they paid a fair price for it. No one around here would have done it much if at all cheaper. In fact most would have told them they were SOL and needed a new tub.


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## Tommy plumber

Ever show up to do a bath-fitter job, and it's a claw-foot tub??...can you fit a claw-foot bathtub?


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## plbgbiz

Tommy plumber said:


> Ever show up to do a bath-fitter job, and it's a claw-foot tub??...can you fit a claw-foot bathtub?


Yes.

The valve and W/O usually have to be upgraded. A lot of the old ones we see here still have a 4"cc valve at the overflow.


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## evilcyrus

*band aid.*

band aid.. thats all it is.. sorry i subbed for a company bath tub king.. and i would rip those out steady.... when it looks that bad rip it out to bare walls and start fresh.. never cover it up never.. i went to one cpl weeks ago.. they were gonna get bath fitter in and do it but decided to get second opionon and the walls were terrible shape , studs were rotton mold everywhere.. u dont spend money on just covering stuff up.. do it right the mike holmes way!.... ahahhaa just my opion bash me if u want.


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## plbgbiz

evilcyrus said:


> band aid.. thats all it is.. sorry i subbed for a company bath tub king.. and i would rip those out steady.... when it looks that bad rip it out to bare walls and start fresh.. never cover it up never.. i went to one cpl weeks ago.. they were gonna get bath fitter in and do it but decided to get second opionon and the walls were terrible shape , studs were rotton mold everywhere.. u dont spend money on just covering stuff up.. do it right the mike holmes way!.... ahahhaa just my opion bash me if u want.


I am in complete agreement with you Mr. Evil. I see no need to bash you, but i believe you are grossly underestimating what Bath Fitter does. We NEVER just cover damaged, rotted, or moldy walls. I have a feeling that would not go well with my liability insurance or lifetime warranty.

When we encounter these issues, we make whatever wall or floor repairs are necessary before proceeding. We just get it done right now rather than stretching a renovation over the course of days or weeks. I spend more money on drywall, studs, and plywood than almost anything else in my business. I can't count the number of times we have stopped projects in midstream because of termite damage, rotted drywall, broken floor joists, broken drains under floors, even live swarms in the walls.

The real issue is this...Knowing the difference between cosmetic problems and structural problems. Most conventional bath remodel contractors play the "better safe than sorry" card. There's nothing inherently wrong with that approach though sometimes it is like using a chainsaw for a letter opener.

I guess there has been an advantage for us over some other tub liner franchises. Being in the plumbing field for so long before setting up a Bath Fitter business makes a huge difference at our location. That is also one of the downsides of the franchise arrangement. Not all franchises are as cool as me. :innocent:

BTW: I have to disagree on doing things the Mike Holmes way. He's a joke.


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## RealLivePlumber

plbgbiz said:


> BTW: I have to disagree on doing things the Mike Holmes way. He's a joke.


 
A complete joke, who is doing more and more plumbing himself. Right in front of the camera.:furious:


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