# 1/3hp sump pumps pressure fittings or not?



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

***PVC PIPE AND FITTINGS***



Do you guys use pressure fittings on sump pumps, specifically 1/3hp models? Our supply house stocks pressure fittings for 1-1/4" and smaller(pvc), but for 1-1/2" and bigger it's all dwv. Sometimes they do have pressure male adapters in 1-1/2" and I will get them but most of the time they don't. I keep an m53, a zoeller check valve, and a male adapter on the van for replacing pumps. I also have a bucket of 1-1/2" dwv fittings(and a bucket of 2"). I don't bother keeping more than a couple pressure fittings as when I do replacements it's usually just the pump and check valve. Almost no one in my area uses pressure fittings for these 1/3hp sump pumps and some even use abs. Pretty much everyone here uses m53's, but some use little giants equivalent. 



What do you guys do?




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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

What's an M53?, A sump pump? I believe they are just re-branded into various company names.

You refer to pressure fittings, you mean in copper?

We only use abs on sump pumps in residential. We don't see sump pumps in commercial places, not that I can remember anyway.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> What's an M53?, A sump pump? I believe they are just re-branded into various company names.
> 
> You refer to pressure fittings, you mean in copper?
> 
> We only use abs on sump pumps in residential. We don't see sump pumps in commercial places, not that I can remember anyway.



I am reffering to pvc, sorry that isn't clear. Here abs is not supposed to be used for pressure. This is because we only have dwv abs here. While abs pipe for pressure exists it is doesn't exist around here. Same with the fittings.


99% of the pvc pipe is schedule 40 for pressure. No one uses or sells cellular core pvc around here.


Zoeller m53's are very good pumps and the only 1/3hp pump we will install. I have never seen them get rebranded either. They are made in louisville kentucky in the good ole US of A.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I must assume that the current trade war has affected the price of these pumps. about 2 years ago you could get one for 89$, a year ago when I checked they were 120$, now the cheapest I find online is 170$!


Definitely still worth it though. No one wants a flooded basement and we definitely don't want a call back for a flooded basement.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I never seen or used abs for pressure. Cell core abs is all we get now and that's what we use on all dwv including sump pumps.

I may be mistaking if it is relabeled but it surely looks the same from the ones I've seen.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> I never seen or used abs for pressure. Cell core abs is all we get now and that's what we use on all dwv including sump pumps.
> 
> I may be mistaking if it is relabeled but it surely looks the same from the ones I've seen.



So you're saying a sump pump is not a pressure application. I disagree and will not use it my self but I do not tell home owners it is wrong. I understand that the amount of pressure is minimal but I don't like abs on a pump. Mostly because the vibration is likely to cause the abs to crack. Abs is more brittle than pvc. That is also why I almost always use pvc and that is what I stock on the truck.


My question is, if you are using pvc do you think that standard dwv fittings are acceptable or do you use schedule 40 pressure fittings?




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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

standard schedule 40 pvc dwv pipe and fittings are fine for any drainage pumps, that dont have any restrictions inline to create high pressure, example ..swimming pool pumps that pump through a filter that can bring pressures above 20 psi...
I pipe all the sewer ejectors that way..


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Here we prefer the M53 but in new houses use a cheaper pump. We use regular dwv pvc fittings and just cellular pvc pipe. Hell I have even used a trap adapter from a tubular P-trap bag once. There is not that much pressure but I normally try and use long turn 90

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

In my code book and I also have a book published by the association that describes the code with pictures and easier to read text, it doesn't mention it needs pressure fittings or pipes. Like I said I've only seen DWV ABS on sump pumps. I haven't seen any pipe break ever. I've seen cracked fittings but not on sump pumps yet.

We don't have or use any PVC anywhere in houses. I was amazed the first time I saw pvc in a house on youtube.

Anyway the discharge doesn't really have true pressure like a potable water because the water is not contained it is just expelled away at a rapid rate.

I would say DWV PVC is exactly what the doctor prescribes and what it says is drain/waste and vent. You can use pressure fittings and pipe if you want because it's better and above minimum code.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> In my code book and I also have a book published by the association that describes the code with pictures and easier to read text, it doesn't mention it needs pressure fittings or pipes. Like I said I've only seen DWV ABS on sump pumps. I haven't seen any pipe break ever. I've seen cracked fittings but not on sump pumps yet.
> 
> We don't have or use any PVC anywhere in houses. I was amazed the first time I saw pvc in a house on youtube.
> 
> ...



you can always go above and beyond, and with a small job you can price it in and still be competitive, but on a large job where you are bidding you will price yourself out everytime..


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

I would say it varies greatly by application. How much pressure is that pump really putting on the line when it is running? Not much because the end should be open. If the end isn't open, they pumps aren't really designed to build pressure, just move liquid (solids for some pumps)

With all that said, how much head pressure is above the check valve? Sometimes I see them where they only need to go up a couple of feet and then they reach gravity. 

I bet you could pressure test a piece of foam core ABS much higher than 1psi.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I have also used trap adapters in a pinch. I was actually thinking about using trap adapters more often because they are the only way I can get those polypropylene nuts with integrated washer. A couple times a year I will need one of those and I hate how I can only get them by ordering a trap adapter. Would kill two birds with one stone.


I prefer the pressure male adapters because they usually thread in easier.


The literature for the m53 says it can develop 43' of head which is equivalent to ~18.5psi. I am sure dwv fittings can handle that.


I just thought I would ask, not all of us do things the same way. I can't believe there is no pvc up there tango. I would think with the cold temperatures and tree roots being an issue for septic lines that you guys would use pvc. Abs is a lot easier to work with but the pipes always come pre bent for us and the fittings are more brittle. I have also had issues with abs lines melting over time when they are close to heat lines or in hot attics.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

skoronesa said:


> Abs is a lot easier to work with but the pipes always come pre bent for us and the fittings are more brittle. I have also had issues with abs lines melting over time when they are close to heat lines or in hot attics.


Only thing I don't like is the pre-bent pipe :vs_laugh:

Nobody around here carries cellular core pvc either. I haven't seen the melted pipe in attics yet, but we rarely see over 80 F even in the middle of summer.

What I have seen is brittle ABS pipe from way too much heat sent down the drain. It turns it into egg shells.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I will say that the coextruded abs with the pvc liner made by mueller seems to be pretty nice strong pipe which isn't bent as much as the regular cellular core abs. If they made pvc lined fittings I might switch to abs. Might....


I really do prefer schedule 40 pvc, the superior white pipe! You could drive a van over that shizz!


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Skip to 8:35 to see him drive the loader over some schedule 40 4"!! And remember, once it's buried and the sides supported it's even stronger!










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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> I can't believe there is no pvc up there tango.



There is PVC on commercial not in houses other than an AC or furnace drain line. I wrote a good description in a thread not too long ago, not sure where it is.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Drainage pipe but not sewer . In other words must use piping that is aprooved for inside the building when being pumped. I dont see much pvc dwv used here on residential but I recently seen tract homes with it not the norm but evedently they use it at least sometimes here. Never used to ever see it


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> standard schedule 40 pvc dwv pipe and fittings





We don't call DWV pipe and fittings schedule 40. To us schedule 40 means it can handle pressure and could be used for potable water, pumped sewage(usually 80 though), pools, or other high pressure applications. To us DWV pipe is either cellular core or for older abs just called solid core. We use schedule 40 pvc for drainage purposes, not cellular core. The 4" is usually labeled as well casing by charlotte and the smaller stuff is just labeled with a pressure rating. I don't think you can call DWV pvc pipe schedule 40. Also no one around here uses cellular core pvc, drainage or otherwise, I don't even think any of the supply houses stock it. If you're gonna use cellular core pvc you might as well just use abs as its cheaper and doesn't require primer. We can't bury DWV pvc pipe or any ABS, only schedule 40 pvc or if you're being real cheap sdr 35. We can use the DWV pvc fittings though, which we do of course for anything 1-1/2" and larger.



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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

all the abs ive used says sch 40 on it . we call it sch 40


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> I don't think you can call DWV pvc pipe schedule 40.
> 
> 
> 
> .



Sure you can. The schedule refers to the thickness of the pipe wall, not how it’s constructed. 

But I get what you’re saying- around here you ask for cell core or schedule 40. But the dimensions are the same.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

skoronesa said:


> I am reffering to pvc, sorry that isn't clear. Here abs is not supposed to be used for pressure. This is because we only have dwv abs here. While abs pipe for pressure exists it is doesn't exist around here. Same with the fittings.
> 
> 
> 99% of the pvc pipe is schedule 40 for pressure. No one uses or sells cellular core pvc around here.
> ...




All you need is foam core pipe and common pvc fittings for ALL zoeller sump pumps.... its never been an issue..... 

The actual Zoeller pump is probably the best PUMP on the market but the switch built into the body of this unit totally sucks and will fail in only a few years down the road. 

I modified this pump 15 years ago...... I buy the m53 motor only with a power cord coming off it and this motor--pump will probably last 30 years or more and I install a vertical master switch on the pvc pipe to turn on and off the pump.... 
You can set the switch up to only come on much less often than the common m53 does and it will literally last forever....... We have had very few failures over the past 15 years. 

Another feature with the dual switch system is when someone calls you at 2 in the morning and says their pump has failed and is flooding the basement.. 
You tell them how to unplug the 2 wires at the wall and then plug the motor into power directly which keeps everyone happy until help can arrive.... 

the dual switch has gotten me out of a lot of late night calls...



https://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/DoygOHlDwqtnjy-YaeBidw/o.jpg


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> The actual Zoeller pump is probably the best PUMP on the market but the switch built into the body of this unit totally sucks and will fail in only a few years down the road.





Boy if you didn't hit the nail on the head! One of our old guys used to replace the internal switches but it just wasn't worth it and it came with headaches. I would like to set them up the way you do but I don't think my manager would have it 


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm not sure what model it is, but I'm pretty you can buy that Zoeller (or one like it) with a piggyback float switch in the box.
We used to keep one on the shelf all the time until my boss got cheap.

Man I have a lot of old boss stories.


The last sewer pump he sent me to work on was actually a real simple job. I called back to find out if we still had one in the shop, and he told me yes. I went back there and grabbed it (box was open) but I checked to make sure the cord wasn't missing or some stupid bull%#^& and went back down the road.


Well I get there, and get the thing swapped and plug it in : Nothing. Not even a hum. Bypass the switch, same result. Grabbed an extension cord, tried a different plug in case it was an amperage issue at that outlet, same result.

Took it back to the shop and boss goes "Oh yeah I think that's the one I was using for dewatering the dry well at the shop."

Long story semi-short that pump died. Why the f he put it back in a box and on the shelf? I don't know.

So I went back a few days later after the order came in and installed it. When I billed her, I only billed her for 1 hour. 

He was pitching a fit, because I still had to go there twice. Why do I have more time on my timecard than I billed for etc etc.

I cannot in good conscience bill someone for time spent installing a used piece of equipment that we should have known was defective.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I only use the piggy back float switch, most pumps with the internal switch goes bad soon after as said above..these work great..
https://www.amazon.com/Parts-FP18-1...0&sr=8-4&keywords=float+switch+for+water+pump


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

We used 2" pressure fittings but we installed 1hp pumps. You cant go wrong using it for 1/3hp its probably overkill but you cant go wrong. 
Contact the manufacture of the pumps see whats recommended for copper.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

canuck92 said:


> We used 2" pressure fittings but we installed 1hp pumps. You cant go wrong using it for 1/3hp its probably overkill but you cant go wrong.
> Contact the manufacture of the pumps see whats recomended


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

skoronesa said:


> *I will say that the coextruded abs with the pvc liner made by mueller seems to be pretty nice strong pipe which isn't bent as much as the regular cellular core abs. If they made pvc lined fittings I might switch to abs. Might....*
> 
> *Do you have a link on co-extruded pipe by Mueller?
> 
> ...


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