# Double tankless install



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Tankless picts here

will post stuff later..gotta eat dinner etc..

here are the water lines.


----------



## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

looks good, i definitally like the powder coated casings on the rinnais. ive put a few of the newer ones and im kicking myself for using the old style in my house. oh well ill put one in in 20 years.


----------



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Looks good!

How do they do as far as cost per month vs old storage tank type?
What about electric consumption, is it less than the old style tanks?


----------



## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Looks good. Galvanized gas lines?


----------



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Kind of strange, but I too see galvanized gas lines. Here they are black iron.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Dont see how its going to draw evenly from both units with the hot side tee offset that far. I always center mine, with evenly cut pieces in between so i get a dead even draw. You might have problems with the one on the right i would think.


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

uaplumber said:


> Looks good. Galvanized gas lines?


Allowed here, you cannot use black steel outside.


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Dont see how its going to draw evenly from both units with the hot side tee offset that far. I always center mine, with evenly cut pieces in between so i get a dead even draw. You might have problems with the one on the right i would think.


 
You need to understand how a tankless works to understand that this will not happen.

Everything flows perfect in this guys house.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't see any pictures of the install...the linkl for for a blanket info page...no pics

Rockstar, even though I cannot see his install it doesn't matter. Tankless units in tandem or 3 or 4 or 5+ units tied together share the load. Say there is a 3 GPM draw, the units do not fire and produce 1.5 gpm each. The primary unit (switches every 24 hrs) takes the bulk of the load, THAN once it becomes more efficient to, it will light the secobnd unit. Unless it's a really high demand neither of these units will run at 100%. The ballancing of the piping is important to tanked non mechanical heaters...not tankless. Pwr consumption will.....err, this is West Coast's thread....Imma let him answer all your questions.


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Bill said:


> Looks good!
> 
> How do they do as far as cost per month vs old storage tank type?
> What about electric consumption, is it less than the old style tanks?


 
Small amount of power, they are a bit less expensive. You get tax rebates from the feds and rebates from the gas company.

Main thing is space savings and endless hot water. This customer had remodeled his bathroom, the contractor installed a regular tank type 50 gallon water heater for a 4 bathroom house with big jacuzzi tub :no:


He was able to use his tub. And I freed up space in his garage for his new motorcycle when he gets it.


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Tankless said:


> I don't see any pictures of the install...the linkl for for a blanket info page...no pics
> 
> Rockstar, even though I cannot see his install it doesn't matter. Tankless units in tandem or 3 or 4 or 5+ units tied together share the load. Say there is a 3 GPM draw, the units do not fire and produce 1.5 gpm each. The primary unit (switches every 24 hrs) takes the bulk of the load, THAN once it becomes more efficient to, it will light the secobnd unit. Unless it's a really high demand neither of these units will run at 100%. The ballancing of the piping is important to tanked non mechanical heaters...not tankless. Pwr consumption will.....err, this is West Coast's thread....Imma let him answer all your questions.


 
Thank you for clearing that up I couldn't have said it better myself, I gave the lazy quick answer :thumbup:


----------



## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

westcoast - I checked out your website portfolio and it looks sweet! but do you think you could cut the tags off the braided supplies for me please from now on? hahahah


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Fixed The Link


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Tags, you mean on the gas flex lines.......it says not to remove 


:laughing: :laughing:


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Hey, thanks for the insite, thats why i was asking, love the answers and knowledge of the subject, not tryin to break your ballcocks westcoast. Your cool with me dude, thanks for the thread. Its neat to still be learning.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I have a silly little question....describe the first pic (had to install java on my new rig). I obviously see the insulated line but where is that to? It kinda looks like a recirc line just based on where it's comming out of the wall....just was wondering. I gotta tell ya you are perking my interest in propress a little.


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Tankless said:


> I have a silly little question....describe the first pic (had to install java on my new rig). I obviously see the insulated line but where is that to? It kinda looks like a recirc line just based on where it's comming out of the wall....just was wondering. I gotta tell ya you are perking my interest in propress a little.


 
The first line that goes up the wall and over across the garage is a 1" cold line, I brought over, directly ont he other side is the water service, and then the second line coming back in, going straight up, instead of taking that back over where the water heater was, by the water service, I found a hot line under the master and tied it in. Now the customer has hot water alot sooner, only about 6' at the most of pipe to travel before it hit his master shower and soak tub. 

The exterior units have thermosil, I am just waiting for the electrician to be done. I went over last night and was pissed, they didn't run water proof switches to the units, just tied in 2 conduits to the plug, very upsetting as I refered these guys, i had them do the pump job I posted earlier, on monday, but obviously they were not aware of the correct install to tankless as far as electrical.


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Hey, thanks for the insite, thats why i was asking, love the answers and knowledge of the subject, not tryin to break your ballcocks westcoast. Your cool with me dude, thanks for the thread. Its neat to still be learning.


 


No worries, I was just really tired, I had the tankless, pumps, wall leak and service calls plus emergency calls all week, so I didn't have patience :thumbsup:

Not your fault.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> The first line that goes up the wall and over across the garage is a 1" cold line, I brought over, directly ont he other side is the water service, and then the second line coming back in, going straight up, instead of taking that back over where the water heater was, by the water service, I found a hot line under the master and tied it in. Now the customer has hot water alot sooner, only about 6' at the most of pipe to travel before it hit his master shower and soak tub.
> 
> The exterior units have thermosil, I am just waiting for the electrician to be done. I went over last night and was pissed, they didn't run water proof switches to the units, just tied in 2 conduits to the plug, very upsetting as I refered these guys, i had them do the pump job I posted earlier, on monday, but obviously they were not aware of the correct install to tankless as far as electrical.


 
Haaaa.....very good young Danielson. I almost always opt for the outdoor GFI recept. However I have done plenty on just a shutoff switch. This option can be used as a selling point as people usually never have enough recepts outside and the increased cost is minimal. 

Looks good:thumbsup:


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Tankless said:


> Haaaa.....very good young Danielson. I almost always opt for the outdoor GFI recept. However I have done plenty on just a shutoff switch. This option can be used as a selling point as people usually never have enough recepts outside and the increased cost is minimal.
> 
> Looks good:thumbsup:


 
I can't stand GFI's, they are to sensative. I want it hard wired in, with a water proof switch, 1 for each unit in this case. I don't want anything anyone can unplug or a sensative GFI to cause me problems. :thumbsup:


----------



## jbk4001 (Dec 28, 2008)

nice job!!!


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

About 2 years ago I stopped seeing the requirement on the name plate for GFCI protection. Noritz indicated there is an internal GFI and no longer a need for them. Well at about that same time the internal GFI's no longer came with ressetable buttons. If they trip, they are to reset on their own. This one failed and smoked out the GFI and the analog portion of the main board. The entire board was replaced as well as the internal GFI. now, I install every single unit with GFI protection. I have never once had a false trip. I did have one trip about two weeks ago. Told the husband to push the reset button and the unit came back to life. There were a few other GFI's in their house that tripped too. Obviously he had a power surge and that little GFI prolly saved them at least 600. This customer realized the internal GFI's are junk. Every one gets GFI protection...indoors or out.

I thought I recently read that all outdoor units are noe required to have GFI protection. I'm not too sure off the top, I know that all recepts that are outdoors must be GFI protected per NEC 2008. CA has not yet adopted the 08 code with respect to the CEC (california electric code) but inspectors are calling for it. As for outdoor tankless...I am not too sure. It may be possible that the OD snap switch needs to be GFI protected...this is a tankless requirement....if it is in fact a requirement, I just forgot at the moment. I'll look into it later. I gotta go fix another tankless install in about an hour. I seriously need to do some write up on how to properly recirculate with tankless. Guys are killing tankless uinits left and right. Anyhow, have a look at this board. I ran 2 - 20a dedicated circuits for this guys garage. Tankless / softener on one and W/D on the other. No problems since:thumbup:


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> I don't want anything anyone can unplug or a sensative GFI to cause me problems. :thumbsup:


I hear ya, on that other one where the GFI tripped, I got a call just as we sat down at Cheese Cake Factory for dinner. Told the wife to get me a Corona and I'd be right back. It was a bit annoying but it may have saved that unit. I let the client know this is the exact reason I put those protection devices in place...when I tell someone 20 - 25 years of service, I do everything I can think of to make that a reality. Of course in 25 years it will be someone elses problem :drink:


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Here's that internal GFI (sorry, working on my post count!)


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

WOW, I tell you what, you tell me how to get the electric done, I have always had it done one way, if there is a better way, let me know.

I have no clue on power, I know I want hard wire and switches. To me, there should be a fuseable link inside the unit, I believe there is on Rinnai, to protect the unit.

Sucks for that board. I had a few GFCI units go out, 2 on sewgae ejectors, customers have replaced multiple times, I would hate that to happen on their hot water source.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Do you guys put in any electrics and if so what do you think of them?


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Protech said:


> Do you guys put in any electrics and if so what do you think of them?


 

I don't, I personally dont like them. I have had flow complaints mostly. I think it is a waste, under the sink, for commercial fixtures is good, but a whole house unit, not into it.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Exactly....there is a very small market for them...and technically they are a poor performer. I have dome many little Titans under the sink for things but never a whole house would I consider it.


----------



## tamor67 (Dec 13, 2008)

Do you guys have TWH vent termination min. ft. from the property line. Here we are required to install at least four(4) feet from a property line. Nice job:thumbsup:


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

tamor67 said:


> Do you guys have TWH vent termination min. ft. from the property line. Here we are required to install at least four(4) feet from a property line. Nice job:thumbsup:


Read that rule carefully.....and pay attention to "common walkway".

Most property dividing walls must be 5'...standard building code. Depth of most heaters is aprox 12"....but what you stated is about common walkways.....that rule also reads 7' off the grade.


----------



## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

tamor67 said:


> Do you guys have TWH vent termination min. ft. from the property line. Here we are required to install at least four(4) feet from a property line. Nice job:thumbsup:


 

Yes, 5' down here. I have 4.5 feet in the picture, i got away with it because the city approved the a/c placement 3 years ago, that was my argument and so far so good, they signed off on my plan check

But yes, 5'


----------



## tamor67 (Dec 13, 2008)

Nice!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I looked into the electric whole house tankless units and even installed a few. I agree that they are point less in all but a few situations. They only save about 3% over a tanked electric. Yeah 3% is totally worth paying 2 grand for......


----------

