# What if you find a T&P with a plug in it.



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

And what do you do when your fixing a toilet and you walk by the WH and the T&P has a 3/4" plug in it.

You mention it to the homeowner and they say it's fine, don't touch it


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

IL ,, that is kinda out there ,,, however I would push REAL hard for a T& P , if they don't do it ,,,, I call their local inspector ,,,, SOMEONE is putting one in !!

Cal


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> And what do you do when your fixing a toilet and you walk by the WH and the T&P has a 3/4" plug in it.
> 
> You mention it to the homeowner and they say it's fine, don't touch it


Obvious answer. Any good plumber would do the same thing: educate the customer on the extreme danger and code-violations that need to be addressed immediately.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Cal said:


> IL ,, that is kinda out there ,,, however I would push REAL hard for a T& P , if they don't do it ,,,, I call their local inspector ,,,, SOMEONE is putting one in !!
> 
> Cal


Ditto what Cal said.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Just curious on how hard you guys would push a blatant violation that the customer says not to touch.

I spose burning that bridge prolly wouldn't be a bad deal anyway.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I haven't been calling the inspector on stuff....but maybe I should? I don't want to make enemies in the neighborhood though.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

service guy said:


> I haven't been calling the inspector on stuff....but maybe I should? I don't want to make enemies in the neighborhood though.


Exactly. That was the root question of my hypothetical. I know it was out there Cal:laughing:


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## Song Dog (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> And what do you do when your fixing a toilet and you walk by the WH and the T&P has a 3/4" plug in it.
> 
> You mention it to the homeowner and they say it's fine, don't touch it


Tell them that it is wrong and could cause death due to exploding, if the temp and pressure should rise beyong it peramiters. 
If they still don't, document that they didn't want it done even though you expressed the issue should be resolved asap. Then have them intitial it.

I always look around without making it look obvious, and express the concerns before we make out the final ticket. If you make out the ticket and then say something then, they will wait cuz they don't want to deal with another transaction or write another check. When I get done with the original repair, I say Mrs. Jones I noticed this and if not tended to, this could happen, do you want me to give you a up front price to repair it today, which will save you money?
It saves them $ due to the fact, if they wait till later it will cost another svc fee or worse yet damage beyond plumbing (flooring, structual ect). So it makes since to address then, not later. 
They will then and could feel an urgency to have it done. 
And so on

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Cal said:


> IL ,, that is kinda out there ,,,


I pretty much had this happen. I tried to be as diplomatic as possible but finally gave up. Told them I was calling the gas company to shut off the gas if he did not either let me fix it or fix it himself right there on the spot. He finally let me.) 

HO threw major fit. It was a rental and the renters were pissed. At him, not me, because they heard the entire conversation. I tried twice to get him to talk to me away from the renter but he refused. So I talked! LOL He later came in to talk to my boss to get me fired. Boss told him to pay his bill and leave.

(HO had installed an old fashioned, used, 1/2" T&P backwards. In the T&P tap there was a 3/4" nipple, a 3/4 x 1/2 coupling, a 1/2" nipple, then the 1/2" T&P outlet. The T&P inlet was out in the open air. I still have it around here I think.)


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

22rifle said:


> I pretty much had this happen. I tried to be as diplomatic as possible but finally gave up. Told them I was calling the gas company to shut off the gas if he did not either let me fix it or fix it himself right there on the spot. He finally let me.)
> 
> HO threw major fit. It was a rental and the renters were pissed. At him, not me, because they heard the entire conversation. I tried twice to get him to talk to me away from the renter but he refused. So I talked! LOL He later came in to talk to my boss to get me fired. Boss told him to pay his bill and leave.
> 
> (HO had installed an old fashioned, used, 1/2" T&P backwards. In the T&P tap there was a 3/4" nipple, a 3/4 x 1/2 coupling, a 1/2" nipple, then the 1/2" T&P outlet. The T&P inlet was out in the open air. I still have it around here I think.)


WOW! That guy should get an award for a$$h01e customer of the year!


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

service guy said:


> WOW! That guy should get an award for a$$h01e customer of the year!


A week later I quoted a guy a price to install his own ped lav in his remodel. Included opening wall and relocating the PVC tee. Quoted way too low, BTW.

I showed him the price and he went crazy. I mean, flip a switch kind of deal.

At one point he had a knife in his hand, not threatening me with it, just picked it up while yelling at me. He was between the door and me so I picked up his cordless phone, dialed 91, and asked him if he was going to put down the knife and walk to another room until I left or whether I needed to go ahead and dial the last 1.

He put it down and walked away. Shook me up good but I was professional the whole time.

It was a small town. I loved seeing him in the grocery store, etc after that. He would always try to sneak away and I would holler his name and say hi really cheerful like. Everyone knew what had happened so people would laugh at me and praise me for it. No one liked him to begin with.


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## Song Dog (Jun 12, 2008)

22rifle said:


> A week later I quoted a guy a price to install his own ped lav in his remodel. Included opening wall and relocating the PVC tee. Quoted way too low, BTW.
> 
> I showed him the price and he went crazy. I mean, flip a switch kind of deal.
> 
> ...


I have never forgotten that after you told em that on the phone. WOW!

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I split the thread from Pet Peeves, sorry if I confused anyone.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Song Dog said:


> I have never forgotten that after you told em that on the phone. WOW!
> 
> In Christ,
> 
> Song Dog


Hee hee! When I am an old man, my caretakers will hear me tell this story and sigh and roll their eyes because they heard it twice the day before.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> And what do you do when your fixing a toilet and you walk by the WH and the T&P has a 3/4" plug in it.
> 
> You mention it to the homeowner and they say it's fine, don't touch it


Shut the heater down and explain to them the dangers of operating it with a plug in it. I might burn a bridge but at least I can sleep at night knowing I did my job instead of hearing the heater malfunctioned and blew up. I could never live with myself if that happened.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

I went to a home a couple months ago trying to find the source of water on a basement floor. (dog urine, nice )
While down there I noticed a rubber hose attached to the T&P valve. I followed the hose into the next room where I discoved a ball valve attached and closed. The HO explained that the T&P valve was leaking after he had opened it up to test it so he put the hose on with the valve. Then every so often he would go downstairs and drain the hose. I explained the error of his thinking and convinced him to change out the T&P valve.

Another situation that comes to mind. I went to service a furnace in an older home. The thermocouple was shot so I replaced it. Things were slow that day and seeing as he was paying me for an hour anyways I offered to do a quick inspection on the furnace. His heat exchanger has holes big enough to stick my pencil through. After trying to explain how this was a bad thing without success I got the sulpher out of the van. I had the HO watch as I put the sulpher on the burners then we went upstairs. That was all the proof he needed. Something about burning mucus membranes and watering eyes convinces people fast. It was very cold out at the time and he had no money for a replacement. So then I was faced with a dilema. Do I disable his furnace until it is repaired? Do I just shrug and walk away? There are no really easy answers for that. In the end I made the HO sign and date a CYA note for me stating that I had advised him of the hazards and had recommened a replacement. I also advised him to keep windows cracked open in his bedrooms until the furnace could be replaced.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

There are always varibles to different situations but you were right by getting something signed. If they dont want it fixed then I will not be held liable for what might happen. Alot of time a signature is the only defense.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

If memory serves, the UPC _requires_ you to repair any dangerous condition. It doesn't say that you have to get paid for it. Here, the code is so poorly enforced that they probably wouldn't even show up if you reported a plugged relief valve.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*Had a boiler with a plug in the relief, mid-winter.*
*I shut the boiler off immediately, the homeowner objected, saying the boiler was fine.*
*I told him I didn't care what he did, but I wasn't gonna stay in that house with the plug in and the boiler on...no death wishes here.*

*He decided to have me replace the indirect that was backfeeding into the boiler once he understood I wasn't kidding about the danger.*


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Had a boiler with a plug in the relief, mid-winter.*
> *I shut the boiler off immediately, the homeowner objected, saying the boiler was fine.*
> *I told him I didn't care what he did, but I wasn't gonna stay in that house with the plug in and the boiler on...no death wishes here.*
> 
> *He decided to have me replace the indirect that was backfeeding into the boiler once he understood I wasn't kidding about the danger.*


That is the awesomest way to handle it! Excellent!:notworthy:


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> And what do you do when your fixing a toilet and you walk by the WH and the T&P has a 3/4" plug in it.
> 
> You mention it to the homeowner and they say it's fine, don't touch it


 See if it was installed properly with teflon tape and pipe dope!


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

Years ago when I was a young apprentice working tracks I wittnessed a journeyman using a contraption of a section of 2" steel pipe with a cap on one end and a reducer on the other. He put lit road flares in there and threaded it on a gas stubout for houses that failed the air test on gas systems. very illegal and dangerous.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, he resurrected a long dead thread, but he gave us a method of testing for leaks that would make Mr. Furley proud.


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> And what do you do when your fixing a toilet and you walk by the WH and the T&P has a 3/4" plug in it.
> 
> You mention it to the homeowner and they say it's fine, don't touch it


thats when you open up your lap top and sit the customer down let them watch the episode of mythbusters when they plugged the t&p's and overheated the water heaters. while thier watching you find the source of the t&p trip, fix that problem and replace the t&p. they will understand the necessity of the repair when you fixed the problem before the first waterheater lands.:thumbsup:


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

The guys from myth busters blew up a 30 gallon electric with T&P plugged. Equivalent to 10 sticks of dyno.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

ummm, maybe there is a watts pressure only on the main water?? u can plug it then, the pressure will go back through the cold.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

I would change it either way, its about safety, not money...


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Explain to the HO what the T&P does and what could happen if it is not corrected. If then they chose not to repair it, then report the problem to the local building inspector and suggest that he notify their insurance company.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

If I was in your shoes he most likely would have been shot.



22rifle said:


> A week later I quoted a guy a price to install his own ped lav in his remodel. Included opening wall and relocating the PVC tee. Quoted way too low, BTW.
> 
> I showed him the price and he went crazy. I mean, flip a switch kind of deal.
> 
> ...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

WTF!?!>?!?!!?&^$%^#*&($&(#$&%(*)^()%&*#% is wrong with that guy?!?!?



plumb4fun said:


> Years ago when I was a young apprentice working tracks I wittnessed a journeyman using a contraption of a section of 2" steel pipe with a cap on one end and a reducer on the other. He put lit road flares in there and threaded it on a gas stubout for houses that failed the air test on gas systems. very illegal and dangerous.


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## smythers1968 (Feb 4, 2009)

I would inform the ho and try to get it replaced.

Had a real estate agent call me one day to go and find out what was wrong with the furnace. I got there found that the old drive belt had broke. I replaced it and got the ol' girl up and running. Something just told me that there was a CO leak so, I asked the agent if he wanted me to check it out and he said ya go ahead. pulled the CO meter out and 24" in front of the furnace I got over 85 ppm. I advised the agent that we needed to disable the furnace or RED TAG it. He said NO. I advised him of the concerns I had about him or any other agent showing the house even with babies and little kids and he said NO. He knew that the furnace was operational and that I had done nothing at the time to disable and he asked me to leave. I went out to the truck called the local utility CO and told them what was going on. They had a serviceman out pretty quick with the agent to check it out. Just so the agent wouldn't relite the pilot they locked it off at the meter.

That was a good day..A sale of a house over public health.

Oh yea, I still billed them for the service call and got paid


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

The mythbusters thing is great. On the web they blow a 52 gal tank.

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-exploding-water-heater.html


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