# Cross-linked polyethylene uninsurable?



## PaulW (Jul 31, 2008)

Got a call from an insurance agent today claiming the existing PEX piping in a home is uninsurable. Was never notified of this development, any one else hear about this?

Paul


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Statewide Insurance gave us the same information. He was going to check into it for me, but I have not heard back from him. If you get any information, would like to see if this is isolated, or becoming the new norm. All new construction homes in our area are being piped in PEX.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

What about all those miles of miles of pex used for infloor radiant heat??


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

If true, I could see significant push-back on that both from homeowners as well as Pex manufacturers. Personally I find it to be about the most trouble-free system out there. If they want to alienate themselves from insuring any houses under 20 years old that's their prerogative, I don't imagine it will do much for their profitability.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

PaulW said:


> Got a call from an insurance agent today claiming the existing PEX piping in a home is uninsurable. Was never notified of this development, any one else hear about this?
> 
> Paul











I 'heard' that polybutylene is un-insurable here in FL. Haven't heard that about Pex.

A lady called me saying that Citizens Insurance {FL people know that is the state ins. group of last resort} told her that her PB under her home in crawl space wasn't insurable. So I went out and took a look under her home and discovered a mix of old copper and some newer Pex with the brass barb fittings. Told her that here waterpiping was NOT PB. She asked if I could write that on company letterhead for her to submit to her insurance people. So I obliged.

Probably truth to the statement that certain waterpiping is now deemed un-insurable by the insurance companies.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

I've definitely heard of PB being uninsurable, as well as galvanized. Any real estate transactions on places with galvanized need a repipe before a new policy is issued. This isn't usually an issue these days as the majority of homes that old in Calgary are being levelled to use the lot for infills or at least a large new home. The only ones that aren't are the 'old money' residences in our old-money neighborhoods, though some of those come down as well.

I just can't see Pex being uninsurable because I don't see much in the way of problems with it; I probably encounter less problems with pex than I do with copper. Perhaps insurance companies will just deny coverage to homes with running water, except of course for the fire sprinkler systems they want to see installed........


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I've seen issues with pex. Crimp rings getting loose and brass fittings rotting out. More an issue with water quality than the material. My house still has galvanized. It will all be replaced by the end of the month with pex. Its piped as far as I can without turning off the water and connecting fixtures.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

We have had homeowners say they are uninsurable from Kitec (pex/al/pex). In this part of Canada I have replaced more leaking brass pex joints than I have a leaking poly b.


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## smudge (Jan 19, 2010)

Dezincification of brass fittings? Use poly fittings.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

Yes, we switched a couple years ago


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I cut this PB out that was installed in 1990. Home owner has been there since the home was built. He has never had a leak on his PB system until a gopher bit through it. Nothing wrong with Vanguard PB with copper fittings. Now PEX with today's crap imported lead free brass is a different story. I've repaired leaks on it already on homes less than 5 years old


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

The only issue I've had with PEX was with a worn out crimper. Got a new one, no more leaks.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Will said:


> I cut this PB out that was installed in 1990. Home owner has been there since the home was built. He has never had a leak on his PB system until a gopher bit through it. Nothing wrong with Vanguard PB with copper fittings. Now PEX with today's crap imported lead free brass is a different story. I've repaired leaks on it already on homes less than 5 years old


This right here.... However starting to see poly b have leaks on any piece of pipe that is bent....


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

redbeardplumber said:


> This right here.... However starting to see poly b have leaks on any piece of pipe that is bent....




Use Uponor and your good to go.

Not sure why PEX manufacturers went to brass fittings over copper. The copper ones seem superior to the brass


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## Archie (Mar 5, 2014)

Around here its definately the Kitec pex that's failing and our insurance companies and home inspectors are really getting on the band wagon. De-zincification of the brass is one problem but its also the pipe failing from water getting between the layers and its just a very poor joining system with 2 tiny o rings that are the whole integrity of the joint. We get weekly calls where homes are sold and this comes up and the sales fall through or a big adjustment has to be made to allow for re-piping. Its alot of business for us but bad for our industry. Just google Kitec or Ipex and theres thousands of pages of info regarding class action law suit etc. I agree with Will - Uponor has it all figured out.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Will said:


> Use Uponor and your good to go.
> 
> Not sure why PEX manufacturers went to brass fittings over copper. The copper ones seem superior to the brass


I do dude.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> I cut this PB out that was installed in 1990. Home owner has been there since the home was built. He has never had a leak on his PB system until a gopher bit through it. Nothing wrong with Vanguard PB with copper fittings. Now PEX with today's crap imported lead free brass is a different story. I've repaired leaks on it already on homes less than 5 years old


We have had several gopher/pb leaks. Especially in the Newcastle area. Have yet to see it on PEX. They do like to eat the gray stuff. :yes:


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> We have had several gopher/pb leaks. Especially in the Newcastle area. Have yet to see it on PEX. They do like to eat the gray stuff. :yes:




I've run across PEX too. I don't believe they like the taste, it's the heat there after I think. Almost all slab leaks from gophers I've run across where on hot. 

Off the top of my head, I can remember do two on PEX that gophers caused the leaks. One in Mustang, the other in Blanchard. Both where on PEX and on hot side.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> I've run across PEX too. I don't believe they like the taste, it's the heat there after I think. Almost all slab leaks from gophers I've run across where on hot. Off the top of my head, I can remember do two on PEX that gophers caused the leaks. One in Mustang, the other in Blanchard. Both where on PEX and on hot side.


Damn things are evolving! I guess it's a good thing God didn't give them thumbs. :laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

SOME (very stupid) insurance companies have recently decided they won't insure pex. I couldn't get any answers from the ones that won't cover it but the gist I'm getting is that due to isolated cases in particular areas of the country of particular brands, some companies have simply elected not to insure it out of in ability to differentiate between them.

It's kind of ironic because here in florida 99.9% of houses are now constructed with either pex or cpvc. The ratio of insurance claims I have been part of is something like 0.5% lex and 95% cpvc.

I have a huge stack of photos of floods due to cpvc. So many in fact that I stopped keeping them years ago. We are going around repiping houses that have cpvc in them with pex.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Will said:


> I've run across PEX too. I don't believe they like the taste, it's the heat there after I think. Almost all slab leaks from gophers I've run across where on hot.
> 
> Off the top of my head, I can remember do two on PEX that gophers caused the leaks. One in Mustang, the other in Blanchard. Both where on PEX and on hot side.


Rats destroy both pex and cpvc.


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## PaulW (Jul 31, 2008)

Rats, Gophers or Squirrels I have seen any rodent that has been poisoned eat thru Copper, Galvanized, CPVC, PVC, PEX and Poly. The poison dehydrates them to death so they will basically chew thru anything to hydrate. I always recommend they trap rodents.

Still no word on why PEX has become uninsurable here in Sunny Central Florida!

Paul


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