# Home Depot install



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)




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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Dirt legs are optional, right?........:laughing:

And that shut off vavle should be minimum 5' above the floor.

Let's have a look at the vent.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> Dirt legs are optional, right?........:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm confused on your comment about the valve being a min of 5' above the floor. Are you under NFPA 54? If so, that's one even I don't know.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> I'm confused on your comment about the valve being a min of 5' above the floor. Are you under NFPA 54? If so, that's one even I don't know.












If there is ever a fire at the burner level while a service man is working on that unit, you can't reach that cut-off valve without seriously burning your hand. So, the valve should be up off the floor away from any potential flames.

I can't cite the code, but it's in W/H manufacturer's literature. And as any knowledgeable plumber or inspector knows, the manufacturer's recommendations, if more stringent than the fuel gas code, supercede the code and therefore govern.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Never seen it, will investigate


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

We all know you have to have an appliance shutoff within 6' of appliance, but I'm not buying your statement.i will look into this though


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I've also heard of this before but thought it was a minimum of 36" off the floor. Seems less important when you have a sealed combustion chamber.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

On a related note, I was at Ferguson today and they told me they were buying water heaters from Home Depot.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I hate to break it to you, I've checked Bradford white and State ( AO Smith) nothing of what you stated, therefore you follow whatever code that is listed on the manufacturer instructions. NFPA 54, within 6'. It may be a preference of yours and that's fine, but nothing I've ever read has stated this.


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

sweet


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Rando said:


> sweet



????, wtf are you talking about?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> ????, wtf are you talking about?



Ha, you changed your quote


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> ...



What brand is that from?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> What brand is that from?












I don't know. It is a generic manual from a W/H that I installed a while back. 


If one looks carefully at the manuals that come with W/H's, it becomes evident that the mfgs. don't want their names on the booklets for some reason.
On the next gas W/H you install, look at the booklet and see if you can find any company's name.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Did the heater have an open combustion chamber?

Seems like a way to get out of liability if something went wrong.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> Did the heater have an open combustion chamber?
> 
> Seems like a way to get out of liability if something went wrong.














If I had to guess, I'd say that is the answer. So when some unsuspecting clueless home-owner gets badly burned or killed, his family's lawyer can't present the charred W/H manual in court as evidence against the W/H mfg. They can just say that there is no way to prove it's theirs.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Well I can say I probably inspect more HWH heaters than you probably install (no offense) and the fact that I've never heard of this requirement, and that of the 3 brands that I've researched this evening, not one has shown this requirement. My point being, I would not fail an installation if the valve was not 5' off the floor. I would fail for no sediment trap and the appliance connector is a no no for me.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> I don't know. It is a generic manual from a W/H that I installed a while back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably no name on Booklets due to the fact some manufactures are producing multiple brands. Keeps the printing prices down


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> I would fail for no sediment trap and the appliance connector is a no no for me.



Those "safety" connectors can be a hassle. 

I won't break out the pipe threaded to raise the cock, but if it's easy to raise I usually will.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> Well I can say I probably inspect more HWH heaters than you probably install (no offense) and the fact that I've never heard of this requirement, and that of the 3 brands that I've researched this evening, not one has shown this requirement. My point being, I would not fail an installation if the valve was not 5' off the floor. *I would fail for no sediment trap and the appliance **connector is a no no for me.*












Bravo! If they don't hard pipe it, then it fails. That is terrific. 

I wish these guys down here required all W/H's to be hard piped. Heck, a lot of jurisdictions don't even need a permit to replace a gas W/H. Case in point, just today I left a gentleman an estimate to replace his gas W/H. He checked with his city, and according to him, they don't require a permit. {I didn't call them yet myself, just going by what he said} I've encountered that in other FL towns as well. Whereas some jurisdictions require a permit.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Tommy, I meant no disrespect on my comment about me inspecting more HWH than you install( not even sure you feel disrespected?) but just with my local gas company HWH rental program my department probably takes in 300-400 permits alone. While I may not end up inspecting all of them, I do my fair share of them


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> Tommy, I meant no disrespect on my comment about me inspecting more HWH than you install( not even sure you feel disrespected?) but just with my local gas company HWH rental program my department probably takes in 300-400 permits alone. While I may not end up inspecting all of them, I do my fair share of them












No offense taken. You, sir, have no need to apologize.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> Probably no name on Booklets due to the fact some manufactures are producing multiple brands. Keeps the printing prices down












I've got a couple questions for you. What's your take on CSST? What about the vent on gas appliances, what I mean is, does it have to be type B, regardless if it passes through a wall, ceiling, etc? Do the plumbers in your area have to use the foil tape on the gas vent connector joints? If so, what is the approved foil tape?

To original poster, sorry for off topic.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Whenever I see tape it's usually hiding sloppy work. Either the pipe cut too short, no screws, or the divertor is too small.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

This is approved tape for all plumbing repairs. That's what the package says.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> View attachment 41481



That loop in the gas connector basically works just like a sediment trap...

all you got to do is disconnect and shake it out every few years....:laughing:


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

plumbdrum said:


> Ha, you changed your quote


 I took a second look with my good eye lol


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> I've got a couple questions for you. What's your take on CSST? What about the vent on gas appliances, what I mean is, does it have to be type B, regardless if it passes through a wall, ceiling, etc? Do the plumbers in your area have to use the foil tape on the gas vent connector joints? If so, what is the approved foil tape?
> 
> To original poster, sorry for off topic.



Well CSST can have a time and a place in this trade, but not "easy" way out of doing it right. In my opinion. The question on venting is a very open one, to many variables to say what is right or wrong, joints have to be screwed with 3 screws here, tape not required. Maybe give me an example of a venting issue. Unconditioned space,clearance to combustibles, chimney type with vent connector sizing issues.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> Maybe give me an example of a venting issue.













Does this qualify?....:laughing:


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Dang Tommy, this one it's the winner for the week .....best installation ever....I'm sure Mr. Plumbdrum wasn't in the area when they called for inspection...:thumbup:


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

Where's the flux capacitor

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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> If there is ever a fire at the burner level while a service man is working on that unit, you can't reach that cut-off valve without seriously burning your hand. So, the valve should be up off the floor away from any potential flames.
> 
> I can't cite the code, but it's in W/H manufacturer's literature. And as any knowledgeable plumber or inspector knows, the manufacturer's recommendations, if more stringent than the fuel gas code, supercede the code and therefore govern.


Huh?? Never heard or read that one.. I was told as long its outside of the unit jacket within reach while servicing...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Before and after:


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

I agree it's better with copper or even shielding but I spoke to an inspector the other day and he said the code only applies to pec as far as shielding or the 18"s of copper to the hwt he said cpvc can withstand the heat from the exhaust as well as the heat from the top of the tank who knew

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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

In Ma you need 2' of copper off any tank before transitioning to other materials.


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> Dirt legs are optional, right?........:laughing:
> 
> And that shut off vavle should be minimum 5' above the floor.
> 
> Let's have a look at the vent.


Interesting. I just thought the valve had to be within 6' of the apliance. And of course placed in a good spot if you were to service or remove the unit. Is that 5' above floor in the national fuel gas code? If it is I missed it. Just curious thanks.


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

I see others referred to my statement before I posted. Should've read more pages. At least we're all on the same page of the 5' rule?????


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

plumbdrum said:


> In Ma you need 2' of copper off any tank before transitioning to other materials.


I've never got a confirmed answer on this, but as far as I know is 18" of copper before transitioning to other material and that Is for cimney vent. If it is a power vent you can connect directly without copper. I could be wrong and definitely would like to know others thoughts


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

moonapprentice said:


> I've never got a confirmed answer on this, but as far as I know is 18" of copper before transitioning to other material and that Is for cimney vent. If it is a power vent you can connect directly without copper. I could be wrong and definitely would like to know others thoughts



Different states , different codes


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