# Backflow prevention type?



## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

I was given a print for a health & wellness center. Things such as cryotherapy, laser therapy, compression therapy & drip (IV) therapy are services provided. I cannot find the level of hazard in the code book for water backflow prevention for these services. Can anyone offer insight please? My master is allowing me to give him a preliminary design & I dont want to go straight to an RPZ if its not required.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I would ask the health department what they want to see. I haven’t worked on a project like yours but restaurants and coffee shops. We passed the plumbing inspection but failed the health inspection. We protected a RO system that serviced three fixtures. The health department wanted us to protect each three fixtures too.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

I really can't say exactly what to do as I am in residential and dabble in light commercial. For something like that I would take it the plumbing is spec and I would just look it over and maybe look up a few things in the code book for personal research. I'm always willing to help out if I can do so, but I'm not going to go look things up and find out the answer for you. I would imagine there should be a backflow prevention device at the meter for the whole building and then one at each fixture that has potential for cross contamination. I dont know about the cryo thing but the rest does not sound like things where water is directly hooked up to a fixture that can cross contaminate.
I would treat it as a health facility like a hospital and look at what would be required for a hospital in terms of water protection and waste treatment too.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

I appreciate the help. Ive been looking up the requirements for medical waste. I’m waiting to get the list of plumbing fixtures to look up waste & water requirements. Hopefully there will be more info as I look them up. I’ll get in touch with the health dept & see what they expect.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

It will need vacuum breakers for sure and probably more but health dept and the medical places usually have someone in maintence that looks at this stuff,architect should know


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

I would figure in rpz's and labor just for a quote tho


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## WashingtonPlung (Jul 25, 2016)

Ask the water district what they require. Since they have to answer to the health department they should be able to tell you.
I'm pretty sure it will be an RP since DCVA only serve sprinklers or low level contamination.


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

Out of curiosity, if you are a Journeyman, why is your employer, (presumably a Master Plumber), not doing the research and the leg work? And for that matter, also doing the pricing.


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

I’m being given an opportunity to show him a design, not necessarily pricing. I told I wanted to gain experience in isometrics, planning. He has the final say on everything of course. I’m also taking my master exam tomorrow morning. So he’s allowing me to “practice” in a real situation.

There’s no tone in our typed messages to each other, so this may be my mushy brain from working & studying without much sleep. But I don’t think I appreciate the way you worded your questions.


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

alson said:


> Out of curiosity, if you are a Journeyman, why is your employer, (presumably a Master Plumber), not doing the research and the leg work? And for that matter, also doing the pricing.


Did you mean your message the way I took it? Or did I take it somewhere you weren’t intending?

It sounded like you were taking a shot at my Master (a fella who’s done right by me in every way) & a shot at me (who got done with my state master exam this morning & have been running myself ragged to do so). I haven’t seen a response from last night & I've been chewing on it since you posted it.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Eddie77 said:


> I’m being given an opportunity to show him a design, not necessarily pricing. I told I wanted to gain experience in isometrics, planning. He has the final say on everything of course. I’m also taking my master exam tomorrow morning. So he’s allowing me to “practice” in a real situation.
> 
> There’s no tone in our typed messages to each other, so this may be my mushy brain from working & studying without much sleep. But I don’t think I appreciate the way you worded your questions.


I was taught critical thinking without over thinking.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Eddie77 said:


> Did you mean your message the way I took it? Or did I take it somewhere you weren’t intending?
> 
> It sounded like you were taking a shot at my Master (a fella who’s done right by me in every way) & a shot at me (who got done with my state master exam this morning & have been running myself ragged to do so). I haven’t seen a response from last night & I've been chewing on it since you posted it.


In plumbing we raze each other, at least in the three states I’ve worked in.

How did your master’s test work out? Do you have plans on going on your own and getting a cont license, or whatever your state requires or sticking with your company?


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

My intention is to be able to go out on my own at some point. I don’t feel like I know enough yet. But I want the license. It’s a difficult test, I feel it went well.
My Master is a great old man who I respect very much. He’s given me my whole career & never tried to hold me back. I don’t like him coming under any fire, he’s not even here to defend himself. Or put someone in their place if need be. I owe him more than I’d care to mention.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Eddie77 said:


> Did you mean your message the way I took it? Or did I take it somewhere you weren’t intending?
> 
> It sounded like you were taking a shot at my Master (a fella who’s done right by me in every way) & a shot at me (who got done with my state master exam this morning & have been running myself ragged to do so). I haven’t seen a response from last night & I've been chewing on it since you posted it.



The way I see it he's just asking a question. On PZ or any other forums don't get angry because not everybody is eloquent to type in exactly the mood, the meaning of what they want to say. Also we don't know the background of each other and context of the situation. Like Opensights said don't over think it.


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

Fair enough.


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

Eddie77 said:


> Did you mean your message the way I took it? Or did I take it somewhere you weren’t intending?
> 
> It sounded like you were taking a shot at my Master (a fella who’s done right by me in every way) & a shot at me (who got done with my state master exam this morning & have been running myself ragged to do so). I haven’t seen a response from last night & I've been chewing on it since you posted it.


Let's clear the air:
There was no intent to "take a shot" at either you or him.

Look at the first three words of my response "_Out of curiosity_ " was exactly what it says. I was ( am ) curious as to why you were doing the research. My curiosity is based upon almost 50 years in the plumbing business and over 40 years as a State certified backflow preventer tester. The question was asked innocently since I found it unusual, based upon my experience and business practices.whereby the Master plumber (MP) or in a larger shop, the estimator does the research to try to satisfy the requirements of the project. Usually a journeyman (JP) is working on the job site and does not have the time to contact manufacturer's reps, inspectors, architects, suppliers etc. in order to determine the proper requirements, approvals or usage for a particular item. In addition, since the MP is usually part of the overhead of a business, it is more appropriate to have him do the leg work rather than the JP who is usually carried as production labor and his time doing research detracts from production. And in the final analysis, it is the MP who is responsible for the outcome of the project since it is his name on the permit. Having said all of that, we are all independent businessmen and run our busnesses as we see fit. In other words, different strokes for different folks!

On top of that, I totally agree with the statement "_there is no tone in our typed messages to each other"_. I firmly believe that e-mail and texting are terrible forms of communication since there is frequently no tone or inflection discernible and it is sometimes impossible for the recipient to determine if the writer is being sincere, humorous, sarcastic belligerent or just plain nasty.




Eddie77 said:


> My Master is a great old man who I respect very much. He’s given me my whole career & never tried to hold me back. I don’t like him coming under any fire, he’s not even here to defend himself. Or put someone in their place if need be. I owe him more than I’d care to mention.


I find it admirable that you speak so highly of him and with so much respect. I hope that you did well,on your testing and obtain your Master Plumber license promptly..Its obvious that we are of different generations but I believe that there is still a lot to learn from us "old timers". When you are in business for yourself please develop a thick skin, you will need it! Customers, inspectors, employees, supply house personnel and others can sometimes get to us and I have found it a good practice to just_ calmly _deal with it. I have a saying ( I am not certain if it is original):_ It is not the work that is difficult, but it is the customers that are difficult. _Learn to live with that and you will do well.

Best wishes to all for a safe and Happy Holiday Season and a profitable New Year
Happy Festivus
Serenity Now


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

I truly appreciate the clarity. I pass my state exam. My master lost his mind. My girl threw me a party, he was the first to show up & the last to leave. I have a lot to learn in the trade & in business. “Old timers” have my attention for all the knowledge, they’ve all been here longer.
Respect.


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

Eddie77 said:


> I truly appreciate the clarity. I pass my state exam. My master lost his mind. My girl threw me a party, he was the first to show up & the last to leave. I have a lot to learn in the trade & in business. “Old timers” have my attention for all the knowledge, they’ve all been here longer.
> Respect.


Congratulations!!

Another question: Do they give you the results of the test while you are there or what? Is it e-mailed or?? Is testing all on the computer or is there a practical portion in your state?

In ancient times, we had to wait a few weeks or a month until we received a letter in the mail and then a few weeks later the license would show up. Also in ancient times, we had to do a lead wiping portion to both the Master and Journeyman tests. That was scored while we were doing the written portion.The lead with the solder attached was loaded onto a Beaureau of Prisons pickup truck and the rumour was it would be melted down and made into bullets for the State police firing range. Ah the wonderful smell of propane fire pots melting solder and candle wax in the morning!


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

alson said:


> Congratulations!!
> 
> Another question: Do they give you the results of the test while you are there or what? Is it e-mailed or?? Is testing all on the computer or is there a practical portion in your state?
> 
> In ancient times, we had to wait a few weeks or a month until we received a letter in the mail and then a few weeks later the license would show up. Also in ancient times, we had to do a lead wiping portion to both the Master and Journeyman tests. That was scored while we were doing the written portion.The lead with the solder attached was loaded onto a Beaureau of Prisons pickup truck and the rumour was it would be melted down and made into bullets for the State police firing range. Ah the wonderful smell of propane fire pots melting solder and candle wax in the morning!


We receive emails for our results for the state exam. It’s a bubble sheet for multiple choice plus drawing 2 isometrics. They said results could take up to 14 days. Got my results yesterday, took it on Wednesday. The city cards are either all computer in Minneapolis or computer plus practical in Saint Paul.
Practical is a lead joint, soldering & a couple other pieces. They haven’t given a test in Saint Paul in about 5 years I was told. They said nobody can pass it in st paul. I’m going to take mine in Minneapolis & then see if I can pass in St. Paul. We have reciprocity here though.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Eddie77 said:


> We receive emails for our results for the state exam. It’s a bubble sheet for multiple choice plus drawing 2 isometrics. They said results could take up to 14 days. Got my results yesterday, took it on Wednesday. The city cards are either all computer in Minneapolis or computer plus practical in Saint Paul.
> Practical is a lead joint, soldering & a couple other pieces. They haven’t given a test in Saint Paul in about 5 years I was told. They said nobody can pass it in st paul. I’m going to take mine in Minneapolis & then see if I can pass in St. Paul. We have reciprocity here though.



They really make you do a lead joint? That's awesome.

You do mean wiping a joint right? I've caulked joints before, more of a pitd than skill.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Hey Alson. You've been registered for close to 6 years and have made only 75 posts. Tis a pity. Your comments reveal a solid grasp of the *business* of plumbing.


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

Wiping a lead joint & pouring a lead joint.


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

Plumbus said:


> Hey Alson. You've been registered for close to 6 years and have made only 75 posts. Tis a pity. Your comments reveal a solid grasp of the *business* of plumbing.


Thank you , that is very kind.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

alson said:


> Congratulations!!
> 
> Another question: Do they give you the results of the test while you are there or what? Is it e-mailed or?? Is testing all on the computer or is there a practical portion in your state?
> 
> In ancient times, we had to wait a few weeks or a month until we received a letter in the mail and then a few weeks later the license would show up. Also in ancient times, we had to do a lead wiping portion to both the Master and Journeyman tests. That was scored while we were doing the written portion.The lead with the solder attached was loaded onto a Beaureau of Prisons pickup truck and the rumour was it would be melted down and made into bullets for the State police firing range. Ah the wonderful smell of propane fire pots melting solder and candle wax in the morning!


when I took my test, they made us take the lead joint off, so no evidence if they didnt like you and failed you, along with waiting for the letter in the mail if you passed or not...


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

Ive submitted my application for the city test. Because of COVID, there’s no telling when I’ll get a response or be allowed to test.


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## Hyper Piper (Nov 29, 2008)

ASSE 1056.


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