# the new lead codes....



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Went to lunch a few days ago and heard nightmare stories
 about the new lead codes and the stiff fines 
that can be levied against anyone who has not paid 
the fees to be certified. to the feds.......

just wondering about the tests necessary and if anyone 
here has already got their certification to appease the powers that be....??


I am hearing that they are so understaffed that they do 
not even come out to inspect the property, they only send you a letter to make you produce your certifications in 15 days, then find you a stiff penalty till you do.. which you cant do cause you dont have it...:blink:


I think this subject has been spoken about before..
long ago.


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## [email protected] (Apr 10, 2011)

Earlier this year I got certified as an individual renovator. 8 hr class, very booooring. Did get some good bits if info and hand book. U get ur picture taken, so don't wear a hat. I believe the company also has to self register with EPA and fork over $300. Was advised to have copy of check on hand/site as proof of registration until official cert arrives.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

The rub is if you disturb 6 square feet of drywall, you need to do lead testing if the house is of a certain age. So the question was asked of the instructor, "If I'm cutting into drywall, I would have to cut 6 square feet with an 1/8" thick saw blade, correct? Not cut out 6 pieces 1 foot square.". The instructor reluctantly agreed.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

JK949 said:


> The rub is if you disturb 6 square feet of drywall, you need to do lead testing if the house is of a certain age. So the question was asked of the instructor, "If I'm cutting into drywall, I would have to cut 6 square feet with an 1/8" thick saw blade, correct? Not cut out 6 pieces 1 foot square.". The instructor reluctantly agreed.


from my understanding, if the total area is 6 square feet or more, you need to follow the lead safe practices.

am i wrong ?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Unless you are planning on becoming a remodeling carpenter I wouldn't waste my money on the training.


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

why would a plumber worry about this


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

surfdog said:


> why would a plumber worry about this


Have you ever opened up a wall to replace a pipe? If it's greater than six sf then you are supposed to be certified. I remove that much plus more when I am replacing a tub surround.


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## [email protected] (Apr 10, 2011)

surfdog said:


> why would a plumber worry about this


Someone advised us that insurance companies consider whoever cuts and causes the exposure to be the responsible party. 

If we're doing work for an apartment owner who doesn't want testing, then the owner gets his maintenance guy to open the walls/ceilings where we say, and our contracts advise testing before they make those cuts. ;-)


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Funny thing is around here the only time I hear about lead based paint issues is on on the test. Never been asked about it by an inspector or anybody else. I can see where in certain government remods this would and has come up.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Someone getting even*



surfdog said:


> why would a plumber worry about this


 
I was told that if someone was wanting to get even with 
you for underbidding them on a job, any job... or they can turn you into the EPA... 


perhaps its paranoid, but the fines are rather huge...
and its just better to cough up the money to the
 govenment for the certification that last 4 years


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

What are you on about? Lead what? Fed regs? Doesn't apply to me because the nearest fed office is 2 hours due south.

edit: So we need to do what with lead paint? Anyone got a link?

edit II: I guess if a permit is pulled? We don't need no stinking permit in the wood.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I either have the home owner or the contractor rip out walls. Let them worry about the damn lead. This whole dumb assed thing is just another way for some government agency and the idiots doing the lead training to make more damn money and jack the price of business up. And if you were to take say 7 sq.ft. of lead painted wall out who in hell is ever going to check up on it? Again this is just another f'ing scam to extort money from contractors. Lead my ass :furious:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

The problem will come back to you if a customer ever has a health issue and they determine, right or wrong, that you poisoned them with lead whatever the poison du jour is. If they have an invoice stating that you were involved is all it's going to take for an attorney to drag you into court.


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## [email protected] (Apr 10, 2011)

ChrisConnor said:


> The problem will come back to you if a customer ever has a health issue...


Or Mr. Willy may not function as he used too. That's what the movie in the class said. 

Here's a link for info from EPA. http://www.epa.gov/iaq/lead.html
Tends to focus on child-related adverse effects.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I either have the home owner or the contractor rip out walls. Let them worry about the damn lead. This whole dumb assed thing is just another way for some government agency and the idiots doing the lead training to make more damn money and jack the price of business up. And if you were to take say 7 sq.ft. of lead painted wall out who in hell is ever going to check up on it? Again this is just another f'ing scam to extort money from contractors. Lead my ass :furious:


And what goofy overpaid bureaucrat decided on the 6 sq. ft. minimum, anyway? So if you cut 6.5 sq. ft. it will endanger the folks beyond repair?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Well, they had to start safety precautions somewhere.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I understand, but why 6 sq. ft.? It's just an arbitrary number, I highly doubt it does any damage, but they had to enact it in order to shore up the lead ban.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

From what I've "learnt" in life, whatever the limit is, it's usually half of what is capable. Water heaters tested at 300psi, but the t&p is set at 150psi, weight limits are usually 1/2 of what their actual test strength is rated etc etc.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

So, if you cut 12 sq. foot, the family gets lead poising, but 6, everyone is fine.............................


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

It's not the size of the hole you cut, but the width of the cut that disturbs the paint that counts. How many drywall saw incisions add up to 6 sq. feet, it's a lot. If you were a painter, I would be more concerned.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

JK949 said:


> It's not the size of the hole you cut, but the width of the cut that disturbs the paint that counts. How many drywall saw incisions add up to 6 sq. feet, it's a lot. If you were a painter, I would be more concerned.


Are you saying it's the amount of material disturbed by the cutting tool of choice? As in sawzall blade width and what it chews on it's path?


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

I cut up and pulled out about ten pounds of lead drain pipe the other day. I didn't have to cut any dry wall so I guess everything is fine....Is it me, I am that uncaring, or is this all a bunch of bull s***.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I think it's airborne particulate that would be carried by the dust.

I wonder what they'd say if you cut it with a utility knife. 

I am shopping for a class in the next week or two, I'll tell you if it matters then.


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## [email protected] (Apr 10, 2011)

Start here:

http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/toolkits.htm

Pick your type (renovation firm) then your state. 

Click one of the links about fees. Notice that tribes only pay $20 vs firms $300. Hmmm...


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## Mr Jay (Nov 10, 2011)

Lead Abatement is just another step in the government's over regulation of American business. The expense of training and certifying technicians to comply with these regulations ads a tremendous cost to operating expenses. Less so for a one or two truck operation but larger companies must foot the bill and it costs thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars in lost revenue and the cost of the certification process alone. What the government does not take into consideration many times is that these business costs are often times a direct pass through expense for the consumer. A small repair can quickly grow to a very large expense as a result of a positive swab test for lead paint. Often times this puts the repair out of the price range for consumers on a budget or on a fixed income. This takes away opportunities for legitimate, licensed businesses. Secondly, it can force consumers into the arms of unlicensed, uninsured contractors who refuse to comply with government regulations. Who is the real loser in all this. . . the consumer.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

Hey, I know, how 'bout we ship the house to China for repairs. They don't have regs against lead, right?


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## Mr Jay (Nov 10, 2011)

gitnerdun said:


> Hey, I know, how 'bout we ship the house to China for repairs. They don't have regs against lead, right?


China. . . they encourage the use of lead in ALL their products. Especially children's toys.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

What about if I take an air powered dual action sander to a pipe made out of 100% lead? :whistling2:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)




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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

gitnerdun said:


> Are you saying it's the amount of material disturbed by the cutting tool of choice? As in sawzall blade width and what it chews on it's path?


Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. If you were sanding walls down, say for paint prep work, you would be disturbing a lot of area. Just cutting into walls doesn't disturb that much area.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

JK949 said:


> Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. If you were sanding walls down, say for paint prep work, you would be disturbing a lot of area. Just cutting into walls doesn't disturb that much area.


 I think the powers that be need to rethink this whole thing. I agree with what you are saying, but still unclear as to the what the law really is.


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