# Leaving the union??



## bagger80 (Oct 23, 2012)

For the last 3 years I have been trying to keep steady employment. Seams it would be easier to go non union. Pay may be a little less and no retirement, but at least I would have an income. Anyone the penalty for leaving the union??


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Do what you have to do to feed your family.
Unions are great *IF* they can keep you busy.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

What is the reason for the rocky work load over the past three years? Your profile looks like you should land somewhere long term. 
If the union contractors in your area are slow the non- union will most likely be slow as well.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

bagger80 said:


> For the last 3 years I have been trying to keep steady employment. Seams it would be easier to go non union. Pay may be a little less and no retirement, but at least I would have an income. Anyone the penalty for leaving the union??


Pull a withdrawal card, and talk to the local BA as to what it entitles you too, most locals are willing to work with members as much as possible considering the economy.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

As for penalties, there may not be any. But, there sure are some consequences. Loss of pension and health and welfare benefits are serious considerations. Of course, if you're not getting enough hours to support your family, it's a moot point. However, the economy will eventually turn (regardless of the presidential administration) and then, a burned bridge may not be repairable. 
May you choose wisely.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

As far as unions being slow. Union jobs for the most part, are a year or so behind the times. When the economy tanked, I worked for almost 2 years after that cause the work was funded already. I left when it got slow, they are just starting to get more work funded. 
Doing non union as far single fam homes doesnt take the time for finds as highrises do.
As far as penalties, who cares. NOONE is going to tell me when the union is slow that i have to just sit and wait for a callback, aint happening. Especially when the bigshots are getting their same pay regardless of full employment or half.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

As was mentioned above pull a withdrawal card and do it without burnng a bridge!


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm glad I'm in a right to work state. I never have and never will like unions. We stay busy at least 6 months out and usually a year or so. I have retirement, health care, disability and we earn a good wage. All this from a small 10 employee company. Do what you have to to feed your family but don't let non union work scare you. It aint bad.


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

Flynbyu said:


> I'm glad I'm in a right to work state. I never have and never will like unions. We stay busy at least 6 months out and usually a year or so. I have retirement, health care, disability and we earn a good wage. All this from a small 10 employee company. Do what you have to to feed your family but don't let non union work scare you. It aint bad.


From my experience you are One of the lucky ones . Although the non union has improved in my area it's still not close to the union . As for you not liking unions, to each their own , but you should give thanks for their existence . For with out them setting a standard wages and benefits probably wouldn't be were there at today . If I remember correctly unions fought for those things . The powers that be didn't just say oh we should start giving back to workers . Blood sweat and tears earned those rights that we have today . So u don't have to like but please tell me your thankful .


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

coast to coast said:


> From my experience you are One of the lucky ones . Although the non union has improved in my area it's still not close to the union . As for you not liking unions, to each their own , but you should give thanks for their existence . For with out them setting a standard wages and benefits probably wouldn't be were there at today . If I remember correctly unions fought for those things . The powers that be didn't just say oh we should start giving back to workers . Blood sweat and tears earned those rights that we have today . So u don't have to like but please tell me your thankful .


Thankful? Probably not. Maybe at one time unions were what they actually claim to be. But all I know of them is a nice pyramid sceme with the guys on top doing nothing and sucking you workers dry. If you ask me all those things you mentioned would have more than likely came to be without unions. Just my opinion though. 

I had a pipe fitter buddy in tn that is union. He told me when he's working all he does is sit on a bucket and wait for his helper to prep his weld then makes the weld then sits down and waits for the next one to get ready. Now from my point of view I could see me preping a weld while my helper does the same and by the time I start welding his he stays ahead till quitting time. But I guess he's not suppose to anything faster than any other fitter.


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

As far as the powers that be are concerned I remember a very good truth my fourth grade teacher told me. life is NOT fair.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

Unions set the pace, I'm non-union but I'm thankful for unions, without them we would'nt make shiot


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Flynbyu said:


> Thankful? Probably not. Maybe at one time unions were what they actually claim to be. But all I know of them is a nice pyramid sceme with the guys on top doing nothing and sucking you workers dry. If you ask me all those things you mentioned would have more than likely came to be without unions. Just my opinion though.
> 
> I had a pipe fitter buddy in tn that is union. He told me when he's working all he does is sit on a bucket and wait for his helper to prep his weld then makes the weld then sits down and waits for the next one to get ready. Now from my point of view I could see me preping a weld while my helper does the same and by the time I start welding his he stays ahead till quitting time. But I guess he's not suppose to anything faster than any other fitter.


If you think for a moment the people running the local unions sit around getting rich doing nothing your way out of reality. These are multi million dollar businesses that they run for a lot less money than other businesses that size.


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

KCplumber said:


> Unions set the pace, I'm non-union but I'm thankful for unions, without them we would'nt make shiot


Yea like I said at one time they may have had their place but today they get in the way. Look at the Chicago teacher deal. They were making more than any other teachers in the country. Making 30+k more than the avg Chicago worker makes. Al, of this before benefits. And they strike asking for a 30% raise over 3 years. Get the heck outa here. Lol.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

True, I'm not a fan of the teachers. Filthy underworked *******s with too much time off


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## bagger80 (Oct 23, 2012)

I am thankful for the union. I have been proud to be union for 25 years. My problem is that in 25 years I have only worked for 3 shops. Here is Chicago if you don't know someone or are not a union suck ass you don't work. As of right now I am just looking at my options


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

bagger80 said:


> I am thankful for the union. I have been proud to be union for 25 years. My problem is that in 25 years I have only worked for 3 shops. Here is Chicago if you don't know someone or are not a union suck ass you don't work. As of right now I am just looking at my options


Totally understand my brother . I'm not saying union or die . Food has to be put on the table . The other guy needs a reality check . Union or not they set the pace . As for life not being fair , well it'd be a lot less fair if not for the unions . I have to ask how old are u ?


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

bagger80 said:


> I am thankful for the union. I have been proud to be union for 25 years. My problem is that in 25 years I have only worked for 3 shops. Here is Chicago if you don't know someone or are not a union suck ass you don't work. As of right now I am just looking at my options


Three shops in twenty five years is impressive. In your case possibly a curse. It's also tough because your not allowed to solicit work. At least we can't through our hall. 
With your qualifications make sure your dispatcher or BA realizes your available. Seems like someone would have a spot for you.


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

coast to coast said:


> Totally understand my brother . I'm not saying union or die . Food has to be put on the table . The other guy needs a reality check . Union or not they set the pace . As for life not being fair , well it'd be a lot less fair if not for the unions . I have to ask how old are u ?


I would guess you are talking to me. Ok I'm thankful unions could play a large role in the case of we don't make anything in this country anymore. That good enough? Lol 

I guess your one of those who believe fdr got us out of the great depression as well.


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## union brother 1 (Feb 25, 2012)

union , non-union, worked both ,big shop, lil shop, jobbin , construction, what can i tell you i've learned...
plumbing is hard work, hard on your body ,hard on your mind... We all deserve top dollar.As a union man i can tell you..i dont see guys drinking sitting on a bucket all day ,if they do ..well their outta of work.pipes got to go in, jobs got to get done.their is downtime on all jobs.pick wisely, when its crunch time.pick it up. When i first entered the union i asked im i goin to get laid off
When i reach top pay.. old man said..
"Treat everyday like its your first" ,fat cat dont catch mice.....


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

coast to coast said:


> Totally understand my brother . I'm not saying union or die . Food has to be put on the table . The other guy needs a reality check . Union or not they set the pace . As for life not being fair , well it'd be a lot less fair if not for the unions . I have to ask how old are u ?





union brother 1 said:


> union , non-union, worked both ,big shop, lil shop, jobbin , construction, what can i tell you i've learned...
> plumbing is hard work, hard on your body ,hard on your mind... We all deserve top dollar.As a union man i can tell you..i dont see guys drinking sitting on a bucket all day ,if they do ..well their outta of work.pipes got to go in, jobs got to get done.their is downtime on all jobs.pick wisely, when its crunch time.pick it up. When i first entered the union i asked im i goin to get laid off
> When i reach top pay.. old man said..
> "Treat everyday like its your first" ,fat cat dont catch mice.....


And you could take your skills and a little business sense, go to a right to work state, open your own business for less than 10k start up, work hard, and in 3 years or so prolly have a 1 or so million dollar business. give or take a bit.


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## union brother 1 (Feb 25, 2012)

Absolutely....all in due time. No sense in setting sail ,during a storm. 
Ill ride the big ship, for now


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

union brother 1 said:


> Absolutely....all in due time. No sense in setting sail ,during a storm.
> Ill ride the big ship, for now


Wish you nothing but the best bud. :thumbup:


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

bagger80 said:


> I am thankful for the union. I have been proud to be union for 25 years. My problem is that in 25 years I have only worked for 3 shops. Here is Chicago if you don't know someone or are not a union suck ass you don't work. As of right now I am just looking at my options


Been a union plumber in the Chicago area since the 70's(total of 6 shops),average 1900-2000 hrs. per year over 35+ years,don't know anybody special and you don't need to be a suck ass,do good work,make good time and shops will make sure you stay employed


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## PunkRockPlumber (Mar 26, 2012)

Just my two cents but working as a union apprentice was great! Got all the hours I could have wanted plus OT. Once I became a journeyman the layoffs came. Why pay someone journeymans rate when they can get dumb apprentices to do the same work for less money?? I was laid off for the better part of 3 years with a few small jobs and day jobs in between. I was never one to be a kiss ass shoppie which is why i was never one to stick around. I thank the union for the proper training I needed to become my own plumber but since they can't provide me with any decent work now I say... F-CK 'EM!


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

Flynbyu said:


> Wish you nothing but the best bud. :thumbup:


As I wish u nothing but the best . So this 1 million or so biz u mention is that what u have on the go . No your working for the man , correct ? For some. reason your ignorance burns my ass or maybe it's my ignorance . As for FDR I'm Canadian , and a plumber I understand dollars and cents , 1/4" , 1/8" , 1.414 . I appreciate what the owner of a shop have on the line , be it union or scab , or should I say non union . As for my ? which is personal how old are u ? Guess 32 . Nothing personal except for the fact that had I not had the chance to work union and make twice the pay plus benefits when I was younger well , I don't know if if be where I'm at today . God bless for I am blessed .


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Flynbyu said:


> Yea like I said at one time they may have had their place but today they get in the way. Look at the Chicago teacher deal. They were making more than any other teachers in the country. Making 30+k more than the avg Chicago worker makes. Al, of this before benefits. And they strike asking for a 30% raise over 3 years. Get the heck outa here. Lol.


I don't understand why we would compare teacher rates to the average worker rates? I bet plumbers make more than the average worker, could it be the 5 years of school or the nastyass back breaking work that others don't wanna do? Teaching is a skilled trade also that requires actual college. Then after college they get to deal with the snot nose punk brats that wasn't raised right at home, I don't blame em for wanting a raise I would rather plumb!:yes:


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

coast to coast said:


> As I wish u nothing but the best . So this 1 million or so biz u mention is that what u have on the go . No your working for the man , correct ? For some. reason your ignorance burns my ass or maybe it's my ignorance . As for FDR I'm Canadian , and a plumber I understand dollars and cents , 1/4" , 1/8" , 1.414 . I appreciate what the owner of a shop have on the line , be it union or scab , or should I say non union . As for my ? which is personal how old are u ? Guess 32 . Nothing personal except for the fact that had I not had the chance to work union and make twice the pay plus benefits when I was younger well , I don't know if if be where I'm at today . God bless for I am blessed .


I'm 37. Working for the man? Lol. I work for a living.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

I have to wonder what the license requirements are in Mississippi, without checking I'd bet they are close to those Pennsylvania, basically none at all.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

Scab, a scab where I'm from means your union pals are working while your stood not earning while protesting for more f*****g money.
Scab is a very poor choice of word and very insulting to all my non union hard working, feeding their family shop owner friends and I ask the mods to treat this as it was meant by the poster.

If its a free to say what we like day then game on.


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## Flynbyu (Aug 31, 2012)

Killertoiletspider said:


> I have to wonder what the license requirements are in Mississippi, without checking I'd bet they are close to those Pennsylvania, basically none at all.


We work hard, follow code,and do great work. The requirements are laxed but we go the extra mile to do things right no matter what you can get away with.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

coast to coast said:


> ....No your working for the man , correct ?...
> ...I appreciate what the owner of a shop have on the line , be it union or scab , or should I say non union...


You really come across very offensive to some of your fellow Professional Plumbers that have chosen a different but just as (if not much more) successful course as yourself.

As an employee and as an employer, I have always been considered it horribly insulting to refer to employees as "working for the man". It infers that employees are somehow less deserving of respect and are inherently less successful than employers. For lack of a better word choice at the moment, that is a load of crap.

And yes, you should say non-union rather than scab. Again, your first thought is to be demeaning and insulting just because union work is a paradise for you. Well I got some news for ya. It ain't all palm trees and Mai Tais for everybody. 

You will or will not receive respect from your fellow tradesmen because of your work ethics and willingness to offer respect rather than based on your shop's affiliation.


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

bagger80 said:


> For the last 3 years I have been trying to keep steady employment. Seams it would be easier to go non union. Pay may be a little less and no retirement, but at least I would have an income. Anyone the penalty for leaving the union??


I'm not sure the penalty for leaving in Chicago but are you aloud to shelve your book for a year and just continue your union dues?

I've heard this before in NY.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

cityplumbing said:


> I'm not sure the penalty for leaving in Chicago but are you aloud to shelve your book for a year and just continue your union dues?
> 
> I've heard this before in NY.


I was a non-union employer and we always had residential work, we always had a mix of new and remodeling since founding Parrs in 1969 I can remember the tough times. The union guys would apply for work and then when it broke open again It was run back to the union, no consideration to my work load or schedule. So what came of that ... no employee would ever be hired if there was a union affilation, they would have to sit on the bench. You can't have both ends and the middle!


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

mark kiernan said:


> Scab, a scab where I'm from means your union pals are working while your stood not earning while protesting for more f*****g money.
> Scab is a very poor choice of word and very insulting to all my non union hard working, feeding their family shop owner friends and I ask the mods to treat this as it was meant by the poster.
> 
> If its a free to say what we like day then game on.


Sorry I did take that to far . Very poor choice of words . Once again I apologize for the use of the word scab , although I meant no harm in the use of the word . I wish all be it non union or union all the best . Oh and for the record I'm very happy with my place in life , and truly believe I am blessed . I took someones post and made it personal , shouldn't have done that .


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

coast to coast said:


> Sorry I did take that to far . Very poor choice of words . Once again I apologize for the use of the word scab , although I meant no harm in the use of the word . I wish all be it non union or union all the best . Oh and for the record I'm very happy with my place in life , and truly believe I am blessed . I took someones post and made it personal , shouldn't have done that .


Thank you, it can be hard sometimes on le zone to accept what people are saying or typing as we can't see face to face body language and typing can be taken a lot of different ways.


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## CT18 (Sep 18, 2012)

I am a Union member that is working a salary job now. I keep my dues paid, i havent worked out of the hall since 2008. When things got slow here in Michigan i took a job in Chicago for 2 years doing pipe design. I had to do what i needed to so the family was taken care of.


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

mark kiernan said:


> Thank you, it can be hard sometimes on le zone to accept what people are saying or typing as we can't see face to face body language and typing can be taken a lot of different ways.


Thank u for understanding . What I liked about this place when I found it was the fact that if your on the zone u actually must give an f about what u do which is 1 of.the reasons I feel blessed , because I enjoy what I do . Nice to converse with like minded people and maybe even learn a thing or 2 .


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