# Are you Calif. and Vt. plumbers ready for the brass lead ban?



## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

I was just given a 1/2" thick booklet on the laws of the new CA. lead ban. I have yet to read it cover to cover. The supply houses around here are boxing up their existing brass fittings and faucets and shipping them to other States to make room for the new, more expensive lead free brass plumbing. A 3/4" brass service tee is going from $11.00 to $50.00 ! Brass PRV regulaters are said to cost 40% more, and so on. The new brass ball valves are way easier to overheat when soldering. Some of the replacement Delta faucets are plastic with copper stubs, or plastic stubs. Also plumbers can no longer install older brass fittings or faucets or replacement stems, rebuild kits, etc, from stock after Jan. 2010. They will be fined severely if they do. They are going to treat this like asbestos. I guess The Governator will have a Plumbing Czar watching our every move! I hate it when the politicians think they need to reinvent an entire industry! I will wait to hear others voice their opinions. :furious:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Hey Jim! Where did you get the booklet? The Delta faucets have been discussed on here already but it's the first I've heard of the huge price increases. I've dealt with some of the new stuff, ball valves mostly, and you're right about the way they handle heat. 


Should I stock up on "dangerously leaded" brass or just head to Mexico when I need a PRV? :whistling2:






Paul


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

*Hey. Paul!*

Streators in Atascadero has the booklets and you get a free T shirt that says "I'm a AB-1953 Lead Free compliant plumber" no joke! You don't have to go to Mexico to buy the old brass any of the other 48 states will have what you need! Remember that we will all be criminals for using our old stocks up after Jan 2010. Decou hardware has slashed most of their faucets 40%.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I will swing by both places tommorow and check it out. I'm almost never in Atascadero anymore so it'll be like a vacation. 





Paul


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I will use as much OLD brass as I possibly can....F-em


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

Tankless said:


> I will use as much OLD brass as I possibly can....F-em


 The Brass Gastapo will be watching. Only in Kommiefornia.


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

rocksteady said:


> I will swing by both places tommorow and check it out. I'm almost never in Atascadero anymore so it'll be like a vacation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I'm surprised you don't come to A-town more often. More rotten copper here than Paso!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

better you than me lol


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Unforunately, this new law will affect ALL states in some ways. It seems that Delta and Moen are now producing some models of kitchen and lavs in ONLY the Ultra low lead version.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

it all pays the same. cost is passed on to the home owner. love it or leave it. Califonia is number one.


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## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

pex and galvi next... lets see what we can do to screw up the Cali economy some more.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

I haven't seen a wilkins XL600 regulator yet, but I have seen the spec sheet, and the PRICE! I can't tell what is different , except possibly the lead in the brass alloy is replaced with GOLD!


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

*lead free brass*

So the difference is the old version has 96% brass 4% lead and the new version is 99.75% brass and .25% lead. Price is at least 40% more. What is way whacked is 48 other states say the lead is no big deal. California was once the 5th largest economy in the World! Gee! I wonder what happenend to change all that! :furious::furious::furious:


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

plumb4fun said:


> So the difference is the old version has 96% brass 4% lead and the new version is 99.75% brass and .25% lead. Price is at least 40% more. What is way whacked is 48 other states say the lead is no big deal. California was once the 5th largest economy in the World! Gee! I wonder what happenend to change all that! :furious::furious::furious:


 
Was in the supply house yesterday, counter guy tells me that a shower arm doesn't need to be lead free, rain heads and other brass heads don't need to be, but the drop ear does.....There was talk of shower valves not having to obey the no lead laws but I don't know for certain. I am courious to see how much the inspectors will care...that is if they even know about it


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Apparently it's ok for a dentist to put an alloy that is about 1/2 mercury (one of the most toxic substances known to man, far more toxic than lead) inside your body, in an acidic environment. On the other hand, it is not ok to put no more than 8% lead in SOME plumbing components, that MAY at some point convey water that MIGHT be consumed that MIGHT have an acidic PH that would allow the metals to be leached into said water.

Yeah, that makes sense. Go Kalifornia:1eye:


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

My day? Seperating clean and dirty copper and brass. I assume the price of the evil LEAD brass will go down now that the Al Gore / Pelosi we hate you unless you make us rich Nazi's have taken complete control


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Tankless said:


> I am courious to see how much the inspectors will care...that is if they even know about it



Exactly!!! How do you punish something you don't enforce? My guess is that we'll be able to clear out the old stuff but replenishing will get expensive.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Is the new brass fittings marked in some way to signify the code compliance?


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> Is the new brass fittings marked in some way to signify the code compliance?


 
I just was talking with the guy I use for rooter and camera work. He told me the inspectors will not be enforcing it for us resi guys. He said this is mainly for public works and munis. There will be a zero tolerance for leaded brass after the first. Take it with a grain, but that sounds a little promising


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> Is the new brass fittings marked in some way to signify the code compliance?


All the new brass that I've seen is a different color. It almost looks gold, much less "brassy" color to it. Other than that, I havne't seen any markings.





Paul


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

What do you guys use for bullets and sinkers over there?


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

*Q: Which products are excluded from DTSC’s annual testing and evaluation program required by HSC Section 25214.4.3?*



Health and Safety Code Section 25214.4.3 requires DTSC to select drinking water faucets or other drinking water plumbing fittings and fixtures for testing and evaluation. Section 25214.4.3 does not specifically exclude any product(s) from being subject to these testing and evaluation requirements. Rather, the statute provides a narrative standard of those items that are subject to its requirements. That standard is described in the law as “drinking water faucets or other drinking water plumbing fittings and fixtures….” Assembly member Wilma Chan, the author of Assembly Bill 1953 (Chan, Chapter 853, Stats. 2006), which codified the low lead requirements for plumbing products, has published additional guidance about what she intended to be subject to the low lead requirement. Based on the plain language of the statute, the legislative history, and clarifying letter from Chan, DTSC does not intend to test or evaluate the following products as part of its initial round of testing:

service saddles
back-flow preventers which protect/separate potable water systems from non-potable services such as irrigation, industrial and laboratory use
water distribution main gate valves that are two inches in diameter and above
fire hydrants
fittings and valves for wastewater distribution systems
decorative fountains
marine applications
air and vacuum appliances
bathtubs and bathtub faucets
showers, bath and shower valves, shower heads of all types and shower head adapters
Roman tubs and Roman tub valves
sanitary sewer drains
irrigation sprinklers
toilets, urinals, bidets and their fittings
faucets, fittings and fixtures for laboratory uses
utility, laundry and shampoo fittings
service sinks
whirlpools and spa therapy pools
flexible plumbing connectors and flexible risers not intended for potable water applications (e.g. clothes washing machines, dishwashers)
hose bibs, fittings, tees and splitters
flush valves
solenoid valves
pre-rinse assemblies for commercial kitchen use that do not include an auxiliary spout or other outlet
In addition, there may be other plumbing fittings and fixtures that are not part of plumbing systems delivering drinking water for human consumption. DTSC does not intend to evaluate any such item, whether listed above or not.

*http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/PollutionPrevention/LeadInPlumbing.cfm *


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

platinum and cobalt.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

They just need to send some of that stuff they've been smoking to the rest of us...










:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Protech said:


> What do you guys use for bullets and sinkers over there?


Depleted uranium...:laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*It Will Be A Total Cluster Fu//*

This will be a complete cluster fu// before its all said and done....

people will be buying brass fittings from Canada, mexico, china or wherever 

eventually the rest of the country will be forced to do the same thing as "california" does..


the new plastic delta single handle lever lavatory faucets are in our supply houses already and they look very crappy.


cant wait to see the new plastic bodies for shower facuets from delta


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

Redwood said:


> They just need to send some of that stuff they've been smoking to the rest of us...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, thats just the over the counter stuff over here! LOL :laughing:


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## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

Protech said:


> What do you guys use for bullets and sinkers over there?


 
just went ot lead free ammo here beginning of September cuz of the condors... well out of the 10 condors that died 8 of them died from electrocution cuz they build their nests on the high voltage power towers and only 2 died from lead poisoning. Why didn't they just outlaw electricty, I'm thinking THAT would have made more sense:laughing:.


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## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

TheSkinnyGuy said:


> just went ot lead free ammo here beginning of September cuz of the condors... well out of the 10 condors that died 8 of them died from electrocution cuz they build their nests on the high voltage power towers and only 2 died from lead poisoning. Why didn't they just outlaw electricty, I'm thinking THAT would have made more sense:laughing:.


 Hey, remember; the smart buzzards aren't on the endagered species list!


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## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

I got a buddy that goes hunting with his new condor-friendly ammo, and he keeps wanting to shoot a condor to see how friendly the ammo really is towards a condor.


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