# Test Your Plumbing Knowledge



## Duall Damage (Apr 3, 2011)

I have been thinking about trying something new. I would like some feed back from you gents. I know we have all ran into some pretty tough plumbing situations and the like. I would like to start a thread where you present the problem that you had and others get the opportunity to solve that problem. 

After 24 hrs from the original posting you present the answer. 

Call me a nut but just a thought.

Thanks in advance.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Sounds like fun to me... :thumbup:

Bring on the first brain teaser...:yes:


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## Duall Damage (Apr 3, 2011)

*A customer calls and says they have hot water in the toilet bowl, also have hot water coming out of all the faucets from the cold side. The customer has Moen shower valves the push pull type. What is the problem?*


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

They got a moen.


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## Duall Damage (Apr 3, 2011)

*Yes. Its a moen shower valve the type you push in to shut off and pull to turn on. Turn the handle left to hot and right to cold.*


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

That's too easy :laughing:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Which side is hot on?


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## Duall Damage (Apr 3, 2011)

*If it so easy Red then what is the answer? Easttexplumb is stumped! He checking the plumbing code for what side the hot is on.*


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

...


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## Duall Damage (Apr 3, 2011)

Sorry Diz. Wrong answer. Try again.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Duall Damage said:


> *If it so easy Red then what is the answer? Easttexplumb is stumped! He checking the plumbing code for what side the hot is on.*


I have seen many examples of that code not being cracked, and I gots 24 hours to ponder this complex question.http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/hot-water-cold-water-side-79584/


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

theyre located in Au. where toilets flush counter clockwise and hot is cold??? Gee im stumped!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Go put one of these in....
The problem will go away...


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Duall Damage said:


> *A customer calls and says they have hot water in the toilet bowl, also have hot water coming out of all the faucets from the cold side. The customer has Moen shower valves the push pull type. What is the problem?*


That's a rookie question. Of course the first time I saw it over 30-years ago I did scratch my head for a couple of minutes. On a single family home it is an easy fix. Not so much on a Mid-Rise but the answer is the valve is bleeding between hot & cold in the off position.

Mark


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Go put one of these in....
> The problem will go away...


 whats that>>>?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

DIZ said:


> whats that>>>?


It's a Kohler Cartridge...:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

If thats the best ya got this thread will die... :laughing:

I can read this stuff on every DIYer forum on the web...:whistling2:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Ok you have to put on a basket strainer and you are out of putty. There is a silicone cartridge loaded in a state of the art calk gun laying on the floor beside you, what do you do?:blink:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

easttexasplumb said:


> Ok you have to put on a basket strainer and you are out of putty. There is a silicone cartridge loaded in a state of the art calk gun laying on the floor beside you, what do you do?:blink:


Don't touch it because it isn't mine...
I'll go to the truck and get another tub of Sta-Put Ultra....:thumbup:

I only use quality basket strainer assemblies that don't require glueing in not to leak.


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## Duall Damage (Apr 3, 2011)

ToUtahNow is correct. Yes that was a bit simple but its still helpful to those just starting out.

I will post another tomorrow. This time I will make it a bit harder. And one more thing, No Cheating! if you don't know the answer you can't go ask DYI Red.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Don't touch it because it isn't mine...
> I'll go to the truck and get another tub of Sta-Put Ultra....:thumbup:
> 
> I only use quality basket strainer assemblies that don't require glueing in not to leak.


I said you were out of putty, but get more putty was the right answer :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

easttexasplumb said:


> I said you were out of putty, but get more putty was the right answer :laughing:


I might run out of putty inside a house...
But I'm *Never* out of it in the truck... :thumbup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

*Master Bath Loses Hot Water When It Rains*

Okay here is one that may require a little bit of thinking....

In the home drawn below they have a hot water problem in the master bath.

The home is a large single story on a slab, located in the Northeast section of the US so winter temperatures can get cold. 

Most of the time there is no problem with the hot water, but in the winter whenever it rains the master bath suite loses its hot water. Then after a day or 2 the hot water comes back... :blink:

No mater how long you run the hot water and even in the full hot setting the water in the master bath is cold.

The weird part is that the hot water is okay to the hallway bath and the kitchen even when the master bath is not getting hot water.

This has been an ongoing problem for years with many different plumbers taking their shot at solving the problem.

Plumbers have installed a new larger water heater, replaced cartridges in single handle faucets, looked for cross connections, and you name it... :whistling2:

This isn't going to be an easy one to figure out and its your chance to outshine every other plumber that has been there if you get this right! :thumbup:

One thing for sure if you want to revisit some of the old things that have been done you can, but the homeowner really isn't interested in buying the same fix that didn't work twice.:no:

Come back with your theory of what the problem is and your recommendation for a corrective action to make the problem go away.

I'll Post the answer Wednesday morning. Good Luck!


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Redwood said:


> I might run out of putty inside a house...
> But I'm Never out of it in the truck... :thumbup:


Where in the bathroom are the fixtures located my bet is they put the insulation on the wrong side


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Okay here is one that may require a little bit of thinking....
> 
> In the home drawn below they have a hot water problem in the master bath.
> 
> ...


Too many unknowns but I would guess there is rain water puddling around the master bathroom which is freezing. The hot water loses it's temper as it flows through the frozen area. Once the area thaws the hot water flows again.

Mark

BTW, your picture is just a red X to me.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Where are the fixtures located I bet they put the insulation on the wrong side or I know you have a roof leak that's soaking the insulation cooling down the pipe and then it dries either way next time its cold and raining I break open a hole and check if I'm right you pay big time $$$$


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> Where in the bathroom are the fixtures located my bet is they put the insulation on the wrong side


Lavs and toilets are located on the master bedroom wall, the shower is located on the hallway wall to the front bedroom and the love tub is located against the front bedroom wall and outside wall with the plumbing coming up in the inside walls like it should should be.

Mark, The Picture was a PNG file I don't know why it wouldn't show up for you but here it is as a jpeg see if that works.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

I know you need an even bigger water heater with circulating loop and a point of use backup


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

It has to be a high water table dissapating the heat from the hot water loop to the master bath. The hall bath and kitchen are either piped above the slab or short enough runs that they are able to compensate. Solution = sump pit or draintile to daylight. Now tell me what I have won Johnny. :thumbup:
The hot water loop is probably not insulated and is emulating a radiant heat loop so to speak, once the water level drops the heat isn't sucked out of the pipe efficiently. :thumbsup:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Not frozen, pipe would also freeze.

Not wet insulation, heat dissapation from the pipe would quickly warm the insulation and decrease the heat loss effect.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Pipe Rat said:


> Not frozen, pipe would also freeze.
> 
> Not wet insulation, heat dissapation from the pipe would quickly warm the insulation and decrease the heat loss effect.


Agreed. Simple properties of a heat exchanger. 2 different temperatures will always try to equalize. So none of those answers can be true.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

They ran the water pipe (probably pex) thru the storm drain never would've happened if they used copper


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## 3Peasdrain (Feb 5, 2010)

*no hot water*

Just repipe through the attic to all fixtures and insulate the pipe.


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## newbie (Nov 3, 2010)

the real question is how did they realize there was hot water in their toilet bowl??


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Go put one of these in....
> The problem will go away...


I paid for my bass boat repairing Moen Faucets :laughing:


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## Duall Damage (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm going to make an educated guess and say that when it rains all the water runs towards that side of the house and saturates the ground formation under the slab cooling the hot side copper lines. I would either install french drains or re-route the lines from slab to attic or perform dirt work and cut new grade away from that side of house. 

Excellent Plumbing Question Red!


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

earth becomes a big heat sync?


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I paid for my bass boat repairing Moen Faucets :laughing:


Home depot gave me 3 boxes of posi and trol carts. for free. WHen I get my boat, I will thank HD!

As for the brass bodied one on the left, never seen it. Link?


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Lavs and toilets are located on the master bedroom wall, the shower is located on the hallway wall to the front bedroom and the love tub is located against the front bedroom wall and outside wall with the plumbing coming up in the inside walls like it should should be.
> 
> Mark, The Picture was a PNG file I don't know why it wouldn't show up for you but here it is as a jpeg see if that works.


Now that I see the picture I still feel water is getting under the slab from the rain and the area around it is freezing or getting real cold. It is also possible the 2nd bathroom and kitchen are not under the slab but run through the walls instead.

Mark


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## xyleman (Feb 2, 2011)

DIZ said:


> Home depot gave me 3 boxes of posi and trol carts. for free. WHen I get my boat, I will thank HD!
> 
> As for the brass bodied one on the left, never seen it. Link?


just replaced my first one the other day came out of the tub shower valve that has the little diverter rod just under the handle through the eschution plate, sherets told me no longer under warranty gave me 1225 to replace it ports didn't seem to line up but worked like normal:yes:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

DIZ said:


> Home depot gave me 3 boxes of posi and trol carts. for free. WHen I get my boat, I will thank HD!
> 
> As for the brass bodied one on the left, never seen it. Link?


The brass bodied cartridges will be burned into your mind the first time you try and pull one out and it breaks in two, leaving the outer part frozen in the valve. :thumbsup:





Paul


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

I was always told an old wise tale when looping copper in the slab, if the hot and cold pipes are touching the cold pipe will cool off the hot. Dont know how true that is though.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Not much sense in waiting the correct diagnosis has been made.

It was indeed copper supply lines run under the slab that were being flooded in extremely cold groundwater cooling the hot water before it could reach the master bath which was why it only happened in winter when it rained.

The rest of the year the water was warmer and didn't cause a severe enough cooling effect.

The kitchen and hall bath both had most of the supply pipes in the walls or, had a short underground run that did not produce enough loss to be noticed.

The water was coming down the hill behind the house and flooding under the slab. We installed a curtain drain across the rear of the house which eliminated the ground water and the problem.

ToUtahNow, Pipe Rat, and Duall Damage all had great answers...
Being in a northern climate repiping through the attic is not an option many plumbers in this area would be comfortable going with.

I'll give Duall Damage the win for his because of the french drain proposal....

The diagnosis was pretty easy I dug a couple of 1' deep holes across the rear of the house and watched them fill to within 4" of the surface. Pretty damn wet if you ask me...

Looking forward to someone else's brain teaser....
Bring em on...


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Why ya gotta be like that Red??  Draintile/curtain drain whatever  Yah didn't say there was a hill sloping to the house :no: I nailed it first :yes: Where's my lollipop? :furious: :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Pipe Rat said:


> Why ya gotta be like that Red??  Draintile/curtain drain whatever  Yah didn't say there was a hill sloping to the house :no: I nailed it first :yes: Where's my lollipop? :furious: :laughing:


Ooops sorry I missed that part... 

I guess its a tie with the win going to you cause you were first...:thumbup:

It wasn't much of a slope... I wouldn't even call it a hill...
Maybe just enough to give an edge to the uphill team in a game of backyard football...

But enough for the water....


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