# Emergency RO backup system



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I have a client in the medical industry who needs a back RO system for their lab. This system won't get used unless the main high purity system fails. The trouble is it has to store a week's worth of water and keep it sterile constantly.

I was thinking a good solution would be to put it on a recirculation system with a few 80 gallon diaphragm tanks with ozone injection to keep it sterile.

Thoughts?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Sounds expensive. My first thought was to keep the water moving so the recirc. sounds like the right track. I would also imagine that they would want to purge it periodically since it's back-up and won't be on line regularly. 




Paul


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

U can use a large PE tank, they have them for potable water, you will have to have a submersiabal pump or j-pump to draw water from it and a diaphragm tank. Also you can install a chlorination system and a carbon block filter to remove the excess chlorine After it's disinfected the water, also you could use a uv light, a uv light would be the best option cause there's no other needed filters to operate it. If you want some links to the PE tanks let me know.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Mississippiplum said:


> U can use a large PE tank, they have them for potable water, you will have to have a submersiabal pump or j-pump to draw water from it and a diaphragm tank. Also you can install a chlorination system and a carbon block filter to remove the excess chlorine After it's disinfected the water, also you could use a uv light, a uv light would be the best option cause there's no other needed filters to operate it. If you want some links to the PE tanks let me know.


The system is going to be fed by the buildings existing softened water. It only has to put out 50gpd for up to 7 days.

I don't like the idea of a UV light for 2 reasons: 1. this system is going to sit unused for up to 10 years until it is needed. If the UV light burns out the system will then sit with pathogens in it for long periods of time. 2. The UV light only kills bacteria in the chamber where it is located. All of the distribution piping will then be subject to bio-film formation. If O3 is circulated throughout the whole system everything stays sterile and unlike chlorine, O3 does not add any chemicals to the water. 

I just have to keep the whole project below $20k and I should be good. This system CAN NOT FAIL THOUGH. If it did ever fail, I can kiss that account good bye.

The water must be sterile. I figure I can go a bit heavy on the O3 concentrations and they can just aerate the water to remove any excess O3 at the point of use.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Protech said:


> The system is going to be fed by the buildings existing softened water. It only has to put out 50gpd for up to 7 days.
> 
> I don't like the idea of a UV light for 2 reasons: 1. this system is going to sit unused for up to 10 years until it is needed. If the UV light burns out the system will then sit with pathogens in it for long periods of time. 2. The UV light only kills bacteria in the chamber where it is located. All of the distribution piping will then be subject to bio-film formation. If O3 is circulated throughout the whole system everything stays sterile and unlike chlorine, O3 does not add any chemicals to the water.
> 
> ...


ok i see what you are saying, i think a PE storage tank would be the best, cause you can see the water level within it, also i think your idea of ozonation would be the best considering the situation, also the ro system will have to be flushed once in a while to ensure proper opperation.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

The bio-science lab that I am currently working at has an incredibly sophisticated RO system, c/w PE holding tanks with an emergency back up system.

Id love to tell you that I know alot about it Protech, but alas, it is being built on level 3 and my head and body belong to the boiler rm/chiller rm in the basement.

If it would be of any help, I could take a bunch of pics the next time I wander up there in a futile search for "that one last 3" x 2" ecc RG reducer" or "that 2-1/2" copper 45..."

Or whatever other obscure item I happen to be lacking to button up the system I'm working on...

:laughing:


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Based on the urgency you describe, this system should be designed by an engineer, not a plumber. No offense.


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## PlumbThis1 (Apr 15, 2010)

*Backup RO system*

Most RO systems here on campus already have around 500 gallons in storage at all time.
The water is first pre filtered with standard filters.
That prefiltered water is then dumped into the tank then drawn out by a grundfos booster and pushed through the RO membranes with and UV lamp sterilizes the water. NO CHLORINE. after that it is circulated through the entire building back to the make up water inlet, starting the process again. Here is a link to the grundfos pumps that we use.
http://www.grundfos.us/web/homeus.nsf/Webopslag/UGRD-5E9BXZ

Here is a link to the lights we use.

http://www.viqua.com/products.php

We contract our RO membranes out so as long as they meet our spec they are fine.
I assume you are wanting RO water and not Ultra pure or Semi Ultra Pure water. if you want ultra water look at a Millipore point of use machine, after the RO water.
Good luck, and hope the client is doing well....and had good credit.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

grandpa said:


> Based on the urgency you describe, this system should be designed by an engineer, not a plumber. No offense.


I agree


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Why not install a second RO like the one they have, piped in parallel with the other one. 

Valve each unit so they are never without one operational unit if one needs serviced. 

You would then have equal draw on both systems during normal operation.

Then you don't have to figure out how to keep it sterile over time.....


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## PaulW (Jul 31, 2008)

Kertone:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Well I went out to the facility yesterday and it's not a backup system at all. It's for a bottle filler. The bottle filler flows at about 2gpm. All I need a a skid mounted unit that can run 2 gpm for 8 hours straight and I'm golden. The only thing that's critical is that the system has to have sensors that monitor the water quality and set off alarms when it falls out of spec. The unit is going to go right next to the bottle filler and will be fed softened water. I have a floor drain to dump into as well. The plumbing is cake :thumbup:, it's finding a prepackaged system that will work for the right price that is going to make or break this thing.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Check out fillmaster. Not sure if they havr a large enough unit. They are spec for medical

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Protech said:


> Well I went out to the facility yesterday and it's not a backup system at all. It's for a bottle filler. The bottle filler flows at about 2gpm. All I need a a skid mounted unit that can run 2 gpm for 8 hours straight and I'm golden. The only thing that's critical is that the system has to have sensors that monitor the water quality and set off alarms when it falls out of spec. The unit is going to go right next to the bottle filler and will be fed softened water. I have a floor drain to dump into as well. The plumbing is cake :thumbup:, it's finding a prepackaged system that will work for the right price that is going to make or break this thing.


I sent you a PM


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> Check out fillmaster. Not sure if they havr a large enough unit. They are spec for medical
> 
> Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


Thanks for the suggestion. It doesn't look like they make a big enough unit though. I'll give them a call next week and see if they have some larger models.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

How bout pre Fabing a skid in the shop, with all the components needed. Would that be a option or does the unit need to come from a manufacture.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

They really want a pre-engineered system.

Another angle I'm considering is just piping the lab RO water into that room and then installing a monitoring system at the bottle filler. The disadvantage of doing this is that there are no high purity lines on that floor or near by horizontally. The room where the bottle filler is located is a clean room so core drilling and cutting open walls is a major production. The upside is they already have a top of the line RO/DI system that is way oversized that distributes water to all of the wings of the building that use pure (2ohm) lab water. There is really no need to install water purification equipment for research animals when there is already higher quality water on site. I just need to get from point A to point B with the lab water and then install a high end monitoring system that verifies that there has been no change in the water quality. It saves money on expensive RO equipment but adds labor in running high purity piping across a large building. 

Another factor is space. There is only about 60 cubic feet of space available in the clean room.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Protech said:


> They really want a pre-engineered system.
> 
> Another angle I'm considering is just piping the lab RO water into that room and then installing a monitoring system at the bottle filler. The disadvantage of doing this is that there are no high purity lines on that floor or near by horizontally. The room where the bottle filler is located is a clean room so core drilling and cutting open walls is a major production. The upside is they already have a top of the line RO/DI system that is way oversized that distributes water to all of the wings of the building that use pure (2ohm) lab water. There is really no need to install water purification equipment for research animals when there is already higher quality water on site. I just need to get from point A to point B with the lab water and then install a high end monitoring system that verifies that there has been no change in the water quality. It saves money on expensive RO equipment but adds labor in running high purity piping across a large building.
> 
> Another factor is space. There is only about 60 cubic feet of space available in the clean room.


I would say tie into the system that produces the lab RO water, cause space will be an issue and trying to find a skid mounted system will be hard.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Turned my bid in. If I get it I'll post pictures of the project here. I'm pretty sure I got this.


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