# back water valve or flood gate valves?



## jk1169 (Jun 29, 2009)

Sorry about the pun, but we are flooded with flooded basements. And now people are tired of flooded basements. In NY we have alot of older houses with dual systems and when we get 2'' of rain the sewer mains surcharge.

Which valve works the best with little maintance ?


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

Personally im not a fan of them...but what i would recommend to install would be a overhead sewer line or repipe the plumbing in the basement floor into a pit which can be discharge back into the sewer stack:thumbup:


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

jk1169 said:


> Which valve works the best with little maintance ?


the problem is what is the HO going to be flushing down the toilet that will allow the flapper to stay in the open position???????????


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## jk1169 (Jun 29, 2009)

130 Plumber....the existing sewer comes in under the basement floor....repiping is not a option


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Sure it's an option. 

Question is how much you wanna throw at it.

Whatsa matta, ascared of a little cement?


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

I have used a couple of these Valves made in Canada

Ordered over the web, shipping was great 


Info here ... 

http://www.backwatervalve.ca/why-mainline-valve.html

http://www.backwatervalve.com/fullport/ML4963/overview.html


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Sure it's an option.
> 
> Question is how much you wanna throw at it.
> 
> Whatsa matta, ascared of a little cement?


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

jk1169 said:


> 130 Plumber....the existing sewer comes in under the basement floor....repiping is not a option


The only way i can see this not being an option if "ONLY" the customer has a finish basement and does'nt want to rip up the basement...


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> I have used a couple of these Valves made in Canada
> 
> Ordered over the web, shipping was great
> 
> ...


 Yep. We use them up here all the time. They work great.:thumbup:


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

jk1169 said:


> sorry About The Pun, But We Are Flooded With Flooded Basements. And Now People Are Tired Of Flooded Basements. In Ny We Have Alot Of Older Houses With Dual Systems And When We Get 2'' Of Rain The Sewer Mains Surcharge.
> 
> Which Valve Works The Best With Little Maintance ?




They All Suck I Have Dealt With This Problem A Lot Depending On The Situation You Can Create A Barometric Trap And Use A Pump As Long As You Can Pipe Up Above Street Level You Wont Have Flooding (of Course Pumps Break Down) Other Solution Not So Legal But I Have Seen Ty Cut In Before House Trap Pitched So When Theres A Backup It Goes In Pit And Pumps Out On To Side Walk Its Like You Said Combined Sewer So It Was Only Rain Being Pumped


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Is there a reason that you are starting every work in CAPS? Makes it pretty hard to read.

My $.02



BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> They All Suck I Have Dealt With This Problem A Lot Depending On The Situation You Can Create A Barometric Trap And Use A Pump As Long As You Can Pipe Up Above Street Level You Wont Have Flooding (of Course Pumps Break Down) Other Solution Not So Legal But I Have Seen Ty Cut In Before House Trap Pitched So When Theres A Backup It Goes In Pit And Pumps Out On To Side Walk Its Like You Said Combined Sewer So It Was Only Rain Being Pumped


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

We install a flood control system like the ones pictured. Always worked for us, no complaints.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> We install a flood control system like the ones pictured. Always worked for us, no complaints.


Is that the dog house unit or did you chip alway the sides in order the get the pipe through?


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

130 PLUMBER said:


> Is that the dog house unit or did you chip alway the sides in order the get the pipe through?


The precast is not my install. The guy that did this chiped away to clear the pipe in this case. We have always built our units with catch basin blocks.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> We install a flood control system like the ones pictured. Always worked for us, no complaints.


Double Guard Flood Control System are one of the best system out there...do you also install a sump pro with the flood control unit?


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> The precast is not my install. The guy that did this chiped away to clear the pipe in this case. We have always built our units with catch basin blocks.


 
Cool!!! i think Parks Plumbing in skokie was on TV showing how to install one for this old house


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

130 PLUMBER said:


> Double Guard Flood Control System are one of the best system out there...do you also install a sump pro with the flood control unit?


Nope no Sump Pro system. We explain to the home owner that if the power goes out they need to stop using water. We do ensure all drain tiles are disconected from the sewer so that will not be an issue.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

sorry pro i just don't pay attention to caps but i will try to work on it :1eye:


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

actually don't know how that happened even the qoute capped first letter ????


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

Not sure how many of you guys know what SewerRatz and i are talking about but heres an episode from this old house that was filming in chicago by a local plumbing company here.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

i have so many things to say about that video to many but

1: that water main the copper looks reduced 

2: i cant believe they allow that piece of crap pvc thing 

3: the cast iron w\brass checks looked nice (but will still fail eventually and since there is no spring will always stay partially open due to pitch)

4: that coupling looked like well lets just say not well installed (and i don't think legal in nyc) 

5: why did he bury it in cement??? at least if your going to do that rap it in some plastic cement is corrosive 

p.s. this setup not allowed here all backflow technically must be located down steam of house trap to the best of my knowledge only clean out when required between main and h-trap


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> i have so many things to say about that video to many but





> 1: *that water main the copper looks reduced*


Lead service is much thicker than copper. So the OD is different but the ID is the same.



> 2:* i cant believe they allow that piece of crap pvc thing*


 I never install one of those plastic units in a flood control system. Also I never would install one of those types.



> 3:* the cast iron w\brass checks looked nice (but will still fail eventually and since there is no spring will always stay partially open due to pitch)*


 No spring needed. These units do need to be serviced once a year, hence it being installed in a manhole. Servicing the units is opening them up cleaning off the flapper and the seat, then greasing up the hinge to ensure it keeps swinging freely. These units have been installed even with a single check valve like the ones pictured for 50+ years by our company and not one failed that was properly maintained.



> 4: *that coupling looked like well lets just say not well installed (and i don't think legal in nyc)*


 No-shear couplings are required by code. You have the standard repair coupling with the two stainless steel bands, then you have the shield which is stainless steel with two more bands. One thing I did notice in the video is the PVC pipe that was removed was SDR 26 which does not meet the Illinois plumbing code for being in the same trench as the water supply. We normally require 10' separation of the water and sewer, but of course there is an exception. You can put the water in the same trench as long as the water is 18" above the sewer on an undisturbed shelf, and the building sewer must be building drain material



> 5: *why did he bury it in cement??? at least if your going to do that rap it in some plastic cement is corrosive*


 Well I do not agree the need to Burr the pipe or fitting in cement. We do put stone around the pipe, and make a cement base for the bottom of the manhole we build.



> p.s. *this setup not allowed here all backflow technically must be located down steam of house trap to the best of my knowledge only clean out when required between main and h-trap*


 We do not have house traps around here anymore. And in most areas that do have them they are in the parkway buried and forgotten. We install a clean out after the flood control unit to make cleaning the sewer to the city main easer, other wise a guy rodding the sewer can get his rod hung up in the checks.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Well if you do not like the flood control I posted. How about this one. It just a lift station installed in line with the existing sewer. http://www.tramcopump.com/ResidentialDetails.cfm?ProdID=26


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

in regards to lead id od and copper i know the id of 1" lead is still greater than id of 3\4" copper as to the check valve i've seen with pitch and no spring a slow backup did not push flapper closed and flooded house. and i cant imagine back to back checks don't need annual inspecting (whatever kind they are)


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> in regards to lead id od and copper i know the id of 1" lead is still greater than id of 3\4" copper as to the check valve i've seen with pitch and no spring a slow backup did not push flapper closed and flooded house. and i cant imagine back to back checks don't need annual inspecting (whatever kind they are)


I am willing to bet a buck that is not 1" lead. In the town they are in that is the XXS 

Here is a chart for you to see what the O.D. of a 3/4" lead service is.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> I am willing to bet a buck that is not 1" lead. In the town they are in that is the XXS
> 
> Here is a chart for you to see what the O.D. of a 3/4" lead service is.


 3/4 all the way!!


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> in regards to lead id od and copper i know the id of 1" lead is still greater than id of 3\4" copper as to the check valve i've seen with pitch and no spring a slow backup did not push flapper closed and flooded house. and i cant imagine back to back checks don't need annual inspecting (whatever kind they are)


IMO, flood control matainence shoulds be done every 6 month or at lease once a year to keep the flappers working properly and to make sure the ejector pump is working properly.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

i know we should get the BP engineers to measure it using the video and than double it


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Back in my fathers day Ford packs where not allowed, you had to wipe in a new piece of lead. It was funny my dad used ford packs one time the inspector came by said nope that has to come out and I want a wiped joint. So my father called every plumber in the phone book, not one of them knew how to wipe a joint. So he called the inspector back and told him this. The inceptor's reply was "Don't you know any one in the 130? or that works for the city?" Then he sent out one if his guys to make the repair.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> Back in my fathers day Ford packs where not allowed, you had to wipe in a new piece of lead. It was funny my dad used ford packs one time the inspector came by said nope that has to come out and I want a wiped joint. So my father called every plumber in the phone book, not one of them knew how to wipe a joint. So he called the inspector back and told him this. The inceptor's reply was "Don't you know any one in the 130? or that works for the city?" Then he sent out one if his guys to make the repair.


i remember in 87 when i did my first and last wipe joint...not fun at all!!!


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