# Crane/Moen



## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm going to ask for pm responses on this so as not to encourage the diy crowd. 

I see very little Moen in my area. In fact, I have never had to pull one of their cartridges although I do have both pullers on my truck (still in the bags).

I ran across a Crane, post war, pressure balanced shower valve that is completely frozen. I believe it is almost 60 years old but I'm not sure. Although it is a Crane faucet, I am 99% certain that it has a Moen cartridge (and apparently Moen, not having much luck selling their faucets during this era licensed their designs to other companies, one of whom was Crane, correct me if I'm wrong). I'm assuming that the o-rings are shot and that it's all scaled up but of course I do not know this for certain. It is my understanding that these can be very difficult to remove. This faucet is an extreme rarity for my neck of the woods and I have been given some advice by my parts supplier, of all people, on how to remove this cartridge if it does not want to come out with the removal tool. I am questioning this advice. I may or may not publicly post what I was told to do later but for you guys that see a lot of Moen, I'd like to hear (via pm or business lounge) how you might do this. Business lounge would actually be better so that any other pros might benefit from your knowledge but pm is fine too. 

Also, once I get the old cartridge out, can I simply use a wire brush to clean up the valve body for the new cartridge or is this a big no no? What is the best way to clean the valve body if not via wire brush?


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Fire in the Hole!*

They're all the same, just like a hand grenade: 

1. Pull out safety clip
2.Pull cartridge
3. Throw towards enemy


:thumbup:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

You should not have to clean out the body at all.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Use your puller, it will come out. You may pull the inerds out though, then you will have to use your easy out to remove the brass shell. As mentioned above, no need to brush out anything. Just make sure there isn't anything left in the hole before you put the new one in. AND.. don't stick your finger in the hole, you may get it stuck!

Or, if the valve is that old just replace the valve.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

ironranger said:


> Use your puller, it will come out. You may pull the inerds out though, then you will have to use your easy out to remove the brass shell. As mentioned above, no need to brush out anything. Just make sure there isn't anything left in the hole before you put the new one in. AND.. don't stick your finger in the hole, you may get it stuck!
> 
> Or, if the valve is that old just replace the valve.


The Moen Puller is designed to help remove the shell if the innards do come out first, no easy out is needed.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Maybe mines not a Moen puller then because there's nothing on it to pull out the inerds. The easy out works perfectly for me.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Smells - I am completely unaware of any Moen/Crane collaboration. But then, I don't know of any Crane pressure-balance faucets, either. Pictures would be nice. 

If it is like Moen - I use a 3/4" wire brush on the 1220 to clear the bore of lime. If you don't have hard water, it may not be a problem. 

Here, if it's a brass Moen cartridge, you are not likely to get it out with any type of puller. By now, the O-rings have hardened and the buildup around it will result in destroying the body of the valve trying to get it out. Sometimes I get lucky, especially if there's a softener that works.

In the last two years or so, I've been running into plastic Moen cartridges that break off deep in the body.

I'm really amazed that you don't have Moen there - there are plenty of them here. I seldom run into Mixet - do you have those?


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> The Moen Puller is designed to help remove the shell if the innards do come out first, no easy out is needed.


 I must have the wrong puller then


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Here is the tool for Moen that will assist in the removal if the center pulls from the stem. That lock pin seen in the picture is the key.


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

Look at Ron's tool pic again and pay attention to the handle. That notch in the handle is there for a very important reason. Before trying to pull the cartridge, use that notch over the outer body of the cartridge and turn it back and forth (after removing the retaining clip) to help loosen it. 

Once you have done that, most will pull out with little trouble.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

see lounge.......


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Double-A said:


> Look at Ron's tool pic again and pay attention to the handle. That notch in the handle is there for a very important reason. Before trying to pull the cartridge, use that notch over the outer body of the cartridge and turn it back and forth (after removing the retaining clip) to help loosen it.
> 
> Once you have done that, most will pull out with little trouble.


 I knew that. Still, the easy out looks like it might extract better--am I wrong?


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

I haven't tried an ease out to pull a Moen cartridge. I would be afraid that it would expand too much and deform the body. The other problem is, how do you get the leverage on it to pull the sucker out of there?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

see lounge....


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Double-A said:


> I haven't tried an ease out to pull a Moen cartridge. I would be afraid that it would expand too much and deform the body. The other problem is, how do you get the leverage on it to pull the sucker out of there?


 I havent a clue what see lounge means. On the rare occasions the guts come out it the easy out with a turn moves the housing enuf to yank out with channys or vise grip. I never thought about warp. Ive seen that tool but never knew what it was for.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Did you know the 1220 Moen Cartridge All brass is 4-3/16 Height and the 1225 B Plastic Cartridge is 4-7/8" Height

Now tell why is there such a difference in the height?


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Did you know the 1220 Moen Cartridge All brass is 4-3/16 Height and the 1225 B Plastic Cartridge is 4-7/8" Height
> 
> Now tell why is there such a difference in the height?


 I dunno....but Im holding a Moen plastic cartridge that fully extended is 4 3/16"


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Now I wounder if the web site I got the info from has it all backwards.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

This is where I got that info from

http://www.alfanoplumbingparts.com/pdf/single.pdf

See Page 52

See the brass cartridge, see the small holes in bottom of the body, that is where the lock pin ends up at, from there you can twist and pull with that tool I show. But only usable when center comes out 1st.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Does see lounge mean dont reveal trade secrets on open forum? Thanks--I see the cartridge--Im having a problem seeing the lounge.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

See PM


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Access to the lounge is grated once you reach 500 post, as for this post, nothing said in this thread is a secret, this info can be found anywhere on the net.

Do a keyword search in google for moen cartridge removed tips or something of that nature, you can bet this post will not be no where near the top of the search engine.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Access to the lounge is grated once you reach 500 post, as for this post, nothing said in this thread is a secret, this info can be found anywhere on the net.
> 
> Do a keyword search in google for moen cartridge removed tips or something of that nature, you can bet this post will not be no where near the top of the search engine.


Things can make it to the top pretty quickly. Google 45 offset formula and the 2nd and 3rd result link here.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Marlin said:


> Things can make it to the top pretty quickly. Google 45 offset formula and the 2nd and 3rd result link here.


That is seldom talked about that is why it moves up charts fast.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Do Moen Cartridge Removal, you will see more Terrylove threads and even Ridgid threads in just the first three of four pages, it is not a secret on how to remove a cartridge.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I have two different Moen pullers, made by Moen. One is for the lav/kitchen faucet and the other is for the posi-temp. They are like gear pullers, they use the front of the valve body to provide a base to pull from.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

jjbex said:


> I have two different Moen pullers, made by Moen. One is for the lav/kitchen faucet and the other is for the posi-temp. They are like gear pullers, they use the front of the valve body to provide a base to pull from.


Post the picture of them.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Here's a bad image of the tool I have


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

jjbex said:


> Here's a bad image of the tool I have


 Yep thats the same tool I have. Works great and is built like a tank!!


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Thats the same tool I have. I don't have that one you have Ron. I may look into getting one like you have though. Can't hurt to have both. who makes yours?


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Pasco makes one like it, or this one is General Tools Brand.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

The Moen tool now pulls both 1220-25 cartridges as well as Posi-Temp cartridges. I think they slightly re-designed the base of it. Then there's the cheap Pasco thing that you can stick down into a brass cartridge barrel and it pops a little pin into an inlet port. Problem is, if you can't get the cartridge out, you can't get the tool out, either. And if it's a difficult one, you'll bend the tool shaft and then you can't get it out of the cartridge barrel or use it again.

I had a Posi cartridge a few months ago that had a flaw in the stem - the end of it had broken off flush. There was nothing to hook a tool to. I wound up drilling lots of holes around the SS spool and eventually got it out - and by some magic I didn't damage the body of the valve.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Here is the history:

Moen, originally part of Ravenna Metal Products of Seattle, Washington, became part of Stanadyne, Inc., in 1956 as the Company's only consumer brand. Stanadyne was acquired in 1988 by Forstmann-Little & Company. In 1989, Moen was given the status of an independent company and renamed Moen Incorporated before being purchased by MasterBrand Industries, Inc., an operating company of American Brands, in 1990. American Brands became Fortune Brands in 1997, and Moen is now part of the Fortune Brands Home and Hardware group. 
In the time that Moen has been part of the Fortune Brands family, it has introduced a wide range of consumer-preferred, stylish products - positioning Moen as the number one plumbing brand, both in market share and in the minds of consumers.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

grandpa said:


> Here is the history:
> 
> Moen, originally part of Ravenna Metal Products of Seattle, Washington, became part of Stanadyne, Inc., in 1956 as the Company's only consumer brand. Stanadyne was acquired in 1988 by Forstmann-Little & Company. In 1989, Moen was given the status of an independent company and renamed Moen Incorporated before being purchased by MasterBrand Industries, Inc., an operating company of American Brands, in 1990. American Brands became Fortune Brands in 1997, and Moen is now part of the Fortune Brands Home and Hardware group.
> In the time that Moen has been part of the Fortune Brands family, it has introduced a wide range of consumer-preferred, stylish products - positioning Moen as the number one plumbing brand, both in market share and in the minds of consumers.


 I think they are reaching alittle in the last sentence. :laughing:


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