# Water heater brands



## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

I think that I lost a job last week because the HO was looking for a different answer. He had a 6 year water heater that went, at 12 years. He was looking for a brand recommendation, I told him that for the most part I have not seen a lot of difference between the commonly available brands, and the major determining factor on how long they will last is a home water supply's specific chemistry, and to some extent it's plumbing system. Some homes will get 12 years out of a 6 year heater, some even more, yet some are lucky to get 8. He didn't seem comfortable with that answer and wanted some absolutes, like X brand is the best, Y brand is the worst, and everyone in the industry knows those two secrets. I suppose I should have come up with some BS answer that is what he wanted to hear, but that is not me.

What does everyone else think? Have you seen any patterns with regard to brands?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Good thing you didn't get the job. The guy would of held you responsible if you'd say this brand lasts 12 years and it failed after 10 years.

You gotta check which brand has has more liner thickness, type of anode. Even with that info it's like spinning the wheel of fortune.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

they are all the same for the most part if bought from a supply house...you pay a hell of a lot more for a 12 year heater and that just covers the replacement one, but they really arent made any different..now the ones you buy from the big box stores have cheaper parts to make them that little bit cheaper , just like all the tools and equipment the big box stores sell, plastic parts where metal ones should be along with cheaper bearings or switches to get the price down, same with faucets and anything they sell...


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Dumb ass HO.

As for a water heater preference, I concentrate on what type of backup I get from my supplier if I get stuck with a lemon. 
If I get a faulty heater right out of the box, the last thing I want to do is try to fix it. I'm not in the new water heater fix it business, that's what the manufacturer's reps are for.
That especially goes for tankless units.
If the installation is solid, I've done my job and woe betide the wholesaler who doesn't 
quickly call out the marines if a unit I've installed takes a crap from the get go. 
I guaranty that they will be dealing with one less water heater customer going forward. 
And, any problems arise in the first year, all I should need to do is drop a call with them with the relevant information and let them handle it.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I agree with the OP, they all pretty much suck the same and are almost identical. I don't play the feelings game when it comes to plumbing, you ask me a question I give a solid answer based on either code requirements or what is least likely to fail and still be economical. I love sweat copper and hate pex but I will still push pex if it is right for the situation. I am wary of propress but use at least once a week. We seel state electric water heaters because that is what our supply house carries but i can't say they last nay longer than the whirpool ones people install themselves.



I would like to add though that Everhot Thermo-flow water heaters see, to last like 20 years where as the others last like 10 around here. I have only seen like 2 electric ones, all the rest were either oil fired or indirects. I think I saw one propane conversion.


Speco or vaughn stone lined ones are great too but I would never suggest one, my back wouldn't allow it lolz.








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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

We install Rheem and Bradfords.... usually a 6 year warranty come with them... if they want a 10 year warranty its another 200.. 

Normally when they start asking a bunch of fool questions about the life of the heater I tell them that I dont really know how long the heater will last...... 

I tell them its like buying a new car, and one new car does not get a block down the road without failing and another one goes 600k with no issues at all... 

I give them the options like a thermal exp tank and a Prv valve on the main line but most dont want to spend the money for them

I normally will back up any heater that we install that fails under warranty and they get a new heater for the labor installation fee.... normally about 475....if we did not install it then they get it for half the cost of full price.....

The water quality in our area is nasty and I dont have a clue as to what the water company is throwing into the system these days..... but I think it is killing off the heaters faster..... 
------------------------------------------------
I just changed out a 50 gallon electric Smith heater that was the 4th one they had in the last 5 years.... They had about 150lbs water pressure, no water heater pan, no thermal xpansion tank, no pressure reducing valve... and #3 flooded the hell out of the house.... 

We did the warranty and added the extras to kick down the pressure to about 75..... I told him the code is that the pan is required. which would have saved him tons of grief,,,,, and the other therm tank and prv valve should be installed if you have high pressure..... but they do help extend the life of the heater......


He wants to go after the builder and the original plumber and the last plumber who half-assed in the heater , but its not gonna amount to anything.... but he is pissed off that he has to pay 1000 deductable to his insurance company.....

on another note their are about 300 homes in this addition with 150psi so word will probably get around about this issue....:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::biggrin:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> ...They had about 150lbs water pressure.....
> on another note their are about 300 homes in this addition with 150psi so word will probably get around about this issue....:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::biggrin:





Wow, that's a lot of psis :surprise:








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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

You should stay busy there just installing prv's, if nothing else..


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

toddpritchard said:


> Bradford White, they are the only ones I can comfortably say are made in america.


What about the ao Smith/ state factory in Tennessee? Been there toured that one.


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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

According to MFG'S Warranty Excess water pressure, and no 
Thermal Expansion Tank VOIDS the "WARRANTY" ! :crying:
If they request a tank sent to them for Inspection they will refuse the
replacement Credit ! :crying: 
Thats from over 30yrs, Doing Warranty service for all MFG'S :biggrin:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> What about the ao Smith/ state factory in Tennessee? Been there toured that one.


Ferguson supply took about 10 of us down to Nashville tenn back in April to see that plant... It was interesting to see... stayed in nashivlle and had a good time over night.....

after seeing those factory workers standing in an assembly line messing with parts all day long I am grateful to be doing what I do for a living... 

some jobs are like living in a special kind of hell .


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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

Yes I viewed the old American Plant when it was in Santa Monica, CA. :biggrin:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> We install Rheem and Bradfords.... usually a 6 year warranty come with them... if they want a 10 year warranty its another 200..
> 
> Normally when they start asking a bunch of fool questions about the life of the heater I tell them that I dont really know how long the heater will last......
> 
> ...


I say let them blow,150 psi is way to much pressure,looks like pop off valve would run continuesly with that kind of pressure,the ho is wasting his time going after blder and old plumber,they long gone,hey maybe he can get them to do his remodel lolololo:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_OMG:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

MASTRPLUMB said:


> According to MFG'S Warranty Excess water pressure, and no
> Thermal Expansion Tank VOIDS the "WARRANTY" ! :crying:
> If they request a tank sent to them for Inspection they will refuse the
> replacement Credit ! :crying:
> Thats from over 30yrs, Doing Warranty service for all MFG'S :biggrin:


How can they really tell for sure what happened,they can’t,could have just been a pressure surge or whatnot


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> Ferguson supply took about 10 of us down to Nashville tenn back in April to see that plant... It was interesting to see... stayed in nashivlle and had a good time over night.....
> 
> after seeing those factory workers standing in an assembly line messing with parts all day long I am grateful to be doing what I do for a living...
> 
> some jobs are like living in a special kind of hell .


Did you hit up printers alley while in Nashville???:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_whistle::vs_laugh::vs_OMG:


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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

sparky said:


> How can they really tell for sure what happened,they can’t,could have just been a pressure surge or whatnot


You don't think after 100 years of MFG, water heater plus doing their
own destructive testing that they can't tell what caused a water tank to fell :biggrin:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

MASTRPLUMB said:


> You don't think after 100 years of MFG, water heater plus doing their
> own destructive testing that they can't tell what caused a water tank to fell :biggrin:





I would agree with him, they can't tell it was on 150psi or 75psi. They may see it rusted less before it gave out but even then, as he said it could have been a surge.


Now if they come to the house and test the pressure they will see the pressure is too high. But that would cost them more.


There will always be abuse with any system. As long as that abuse stays low enough it's not worth them going after and looking at in more detail. Now by the fifth or sixth house they may start to ask questions 








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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

MASTRPLUMB said:


> You don't think after 100 years of MFG, water heater plus doing their
> own destructive testing that they can't tell what caused a water tank to fell :biggrin:


Nope,not 100%,never will believe it


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## cyrus799 (7 mo ago)

My family has used Rheem water heater for a very long time. I adore the efficiency of this gas-powered heater, which can generate up to 90 gallons of hot water in the first hour. Families don't have to worry about the water getting too cold to wash clothes or take warm showers.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

When a water heater gets severely over pressured the inlet and outlet nipples will start tilting toward each other as the tank swells.


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## PlumberPhil (3 mo ago)

At one point AO Smith made all the holding tanks for every manufacturer. That was 15yrs ago, not sure now. But I say " a w/h is a w/h". Different materials for components on some, but basically the same(this applies to tank units only of course).
Water quality is going to be the biggest factor. Google and sales people here in Florida say the same thing "12 year life expectancy".... BS. I've had 50yr old water heaters here, and commonly it's more like 16-20yrs is the expected life span (at least in this area).


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> When a water heater gets severely over pressured the inlet and outlet nipples will start tilting toward each other as the tank swells.


It also causes the tank to bulge down on the burner,


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

PlumberPhil said:


> At one point AO Smith made all the holding tanks for every manufacturer. That was 15yrs ago, not sure now. But I say " a w/h is a w/h". Different materials for components on some, but basically the same(this applies to tank units only of course).
> Water quality is going to be the biggest factor. Google and sales people here in Florida say the same thing "12 year life expectancy".... BS. I've had 50yr old water heaters here, and commonly it's more like 16-20yrs is the expected life span (at least in this area).


A.O. **** never made everbodys tanks, they only made A.O. Smith, American, and State
After they Brought them out ! Rheem/Ruud and Bradford White always made their
own tanks !


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## PlumberPhil (3 mo ago)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> A.O. **** never made everbodys tanks, they only made A.O. Smith, American, and State
> After they Brought them out ! Rheem/Ruud and Bradford White always made their
> own tanks !


Whoa touched a nerve. Was told that by a plumbing supply house guy.....never had a reason to question it honestly🙃
Glad you got the exclamation points in there though🤗


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Isn't there only a couple of companies who Manufactures the elements and thermostats though? I know Apcom is one, dont recall the other. They're like Air conditioners man. Different steel, but they all about have the same components made by a few manufacturers.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

PlumberPhil said:


> Whoa touched a nerve. Was told that by a plumbing supply house guy.....never had a reason to question it honestly🙃
> Glad you got the exclamation points in there though🤗


I helped sue the piss out of AO Smith. They lost millions.


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## PlumberPhil (3 mo ago)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I helped sue the piss out of AO Smith. They lost millions.


Never heard of that law suit.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

PlumberPhil said:


> Never heard of that law suit.


I did, you should read about it.

No username or password required. 








DELIBERATIONS BEGIN TODAY IN LAWSUIT OVER WATER HEATER


DELIBERATIONS BEGIN TODAY IN LAWSUIT OVER WATER HEATER



www.cunninghambounds.com


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I did, you should read about it.
> 
> No username or password required.
> 
> ...


what failed on the water heater?


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> what failed on the water heater?


The gas control


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> The gas control


The gas control valve failed?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

And was it un scented gas? How the hell could you not smell a room full of gas? It doesn’t make sense.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> And was it un scented gas? How the hell could you not smell a room full of gas? It doesn’t make sense.





ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> And was it un scented gas? How the hell could you not smell a room full of gas? It doesn’t make sense.


Mercaptan was the oderant used. The concentration varies and in new piping systems the oderant can be less than effective. Yes, the age of a piping system can play a role in the effectiveness of mercaptan. 









Odor Fade and Why We Pickle Pipe | MRR


Odor fade is the loss of odorant so that it is no longer detectable. Pipeline pickling is the process of conditioning a new gas pipeline before putting it into service.




www.odorizationbymrr.com





People can also become accustomed to the smell or lack of. 


Stuff happens lil breh, don’t let it scare you.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Mercaptan was the oderant used. The concentration varies and in new piping systems the oderant can be less than effective. Yes, the age of a piping system can play a role in the effectiveness of mercaptan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*









things do happen. Dec 2020, luckily they were home. I don’t know how it didn’t fall through the platform. Replaced it with a tankless. This is why if they’re 10yrs or older we won’t service them. Even if it is just a thermal coupling. I also did them a favor by hauling it off with that ugly magnet still stuck to it. Belonged in the garbage right along with the water heater. *


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

That heater was at least 18 yrs old. It looks like it was a slow burn. 

Any idea what happened ?

You don’t like Alabama football because we are winners. Don’t be like that Rocky. 

Don’t bad mouth success, it’s not a good look. You’re better than that lil breh.


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## Lickitlikeafritter (12 mo ago)

On the note of the smell of gas. The past few new gas lines we’ve ran have had a very, very faint to no smell to them. Bled and bled and bled and finally put a lighter to it because we couldn’t imagine it would take that long to bleed. 
This last one was ~200 ft of 2” steel, separately down to about 100’ 1” to some 3/4” gastite to three outdoor decorative fireplaces. So a lot to bleed but in the past I’ve had a pretty delicate nose to it. 
It’s interesting to know older systems have a stronger smell assumingely from the buildup of the chemical oderant.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> That heater was at least 18 yrs old. It looks like it was a slow burn.
> 
> Any idea what happened ?
> 
> ...


Quit hoggin all the talent. Their 4th string would smoke our first string. And those kids ride the bench HOPING they can play one down.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Quit hoggin all the talent. Their 4th string would smoke our first string. And those kids ride the bench HOPING they can play one down.


It’s not park ball Rocky. It’s a business. Everyone doesn’t get a trophy lil Breh


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I helped sue the piss out of AO Smith. They lost millions.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

I wish I lived closer because I’d take every water heater repair you could send me. 

Why did the heater burn the floor out ? 

Why is 10 yrs the magic number ? 🤣

@ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Do you realize that if the gas meter regulator fails that it’s possible that every gas appliance fails in the house ? 

It’s happened and houses caught fire all over town.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I wish I lived closer because I’d take every water heater repair you could send me.
> 
> Why did the heater burn the floor out ?
> 
> ...


🤷🏼 Ten years, I have no desire to prolong the life of a water heater beyond that for a more serious failure to happen. Once we touch It, we sorta own it. 

I mean do you remove toilet bowls and soak them in a drum full of CLR to fix the weak flush from the rim being full of sh!t? I would hope not. Sell them a new one and move on. Same with a water heater. It’s 10yrs old. You’re lucky if they last 6yrs these days


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> 🤷🏼 Ten years, I have no desire to prolong the life of a water heater beyond that for a more serious failure to happen. Once we touch It, we sorta own it.
> 
> I mean do you remove toilet bowls and soak them in a drum full of CLR to fix the weak flush from the rim being full of sh!t? I would hope not. Sell them a new one and move on. Same with a water heater. It’s 10yrs old. You’re lucky if they last 6yrs these days


Once you touch anything you sorta own it.

The problem is when they don’t bite on your new water heater sales pitch and calls a guy like me that throws a thermocouple on it for $200 and then bad mouths you to legit people they know. Then in a year or two they call a guy like me to replace the heater I got them another couple yrs or 10 out of. 

But if you’re happy with your strategy and are honest with people about the possibility of having other professional plumbers repair it then I support your decision.

In other words there is no industry standard to support a 10 yr throw away life. Some heaters even have extended warranty past 10 yrs. 

So it’s a company policy and not the industry’s standard


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Once you touch anything you sorta own it.
> 
> The problem is when they don’t bite on your new water heater sales pitch and calls a guy like me that throws a thermocouple on it for $200 and then bad mouths you to legit people they know. Then in a year or two they call a guy like me to replace the heater I got them another couple yrs or 10 out of.
> 
> ...


It is a company policy. They can call whoever. I could give 2 sh!ts if they bite or not on a new one. Don’t get all high and mighty on me Mr. charging 200.00 for a 15 minute service call and 9.00 part. 🙄 and I do let them know that someone else may repair it but we won’t.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> It is a company policy. They can call whoever. I could give 2 sh!ts if they bite or not on a new one. Don’t get all high and mighty on me Mr. charging 200.00 for a 15 minute service call and 9.00 part. 🙄 and I do let them know that someone else may repair it but we won’t.


Relax Rocky, I’m giving you a perspective that you may not have considered. 

You talk about sending out flyers for the repair side of your business and you talk about customer reviews being helpful, so you do care what people say.
In a small service area like you live it’s very important to not be mistaken for a dishonest person.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Relax Rocky, I’m giving you a perspective that you may not have considered.
> 
> You talk about sending out flyers for the repair side of your business and you talk about customer reviews being helpful, so you do care what people say.
> In a small service area like you live it’s very important to not be mistaken for a dishonest person.


stating that we won’t repair a gas water heater over ten yrs old wouldn’t warrant a bad review. It’s just our policy. Doesn’t make us dishonest either. If someone chooses to complain about it they have that right to do so. Relax? Relax is in my DNA. And they aren’t flyers. They’re post cards. Still sitting on those. Haven’t pulled the trigger. We’re too busy at the moment.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> stating that we won’t repair a gas water heater over ten yrs old wouldn’t warrant a bad review. It’s just our policy. Doesn’t make us dishonest either. If someone chooses to complain about it they have that right to do so. Relax? Relax is in my DNA. And they aren’t flyers. They’re post cards. Still sitting on those. Haven’t pulled the trigger. We’re too busy at the moment.


I haven’t said you’re dishonest. If you present it to the customer as company policy.

If you present it as a matter of industry standard or protocol then I’d say it’s not honest.

They’re all flyers Rocky, they all fly right in the trash.

I only use post cards for pizza, not to find ma plumber

How many times you called the number on a postcard and it worked out ?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

nevah.


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## PlumberPhil (3 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> 🤷🏼 Ten years, I have no desire to prolong the life of a water heater beyond that for a more serious failure to happen. Once we touch It, we sorta own it.
> 
> I mean do you remove toilet bowls and soak them in a drum full of CLR to fix the weak flush from the rim being full of sh!t? I would hope not. Sell them a new one and move on. Same with a water heater. It’s 10yrs old. You’re lucky if they last 6yrs these days


 Weak flush:
I take a couple allen keys (large and small to clear ports in the bowl, ez takes 5 min and works

I've had a water heater leaking anytime from right out of the box..... to 56yrs old without leaks. 16-20 is my most common average of tank failure. But my rule of thumb is if a repair is less than 20-30% of a new one, then repair is what I lean towards.


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## PlumberPhil (3 mo ago)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> They’re all flyers Rocky, they all fly right in the trash.


🤣🤣🤣


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## PlumberPhil (3 mo ago)

And we're only charging about 110 for a thermocouple (+ 1/2hr).....been a while since I had a NG or LP thermocouple replacement though. All thermopile kits mostly now🙄


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