# Biggest Challenges Facing The Plumbing Trade?



## PlumbingZone (Feb 10, 2016)

What do you feel are the biggest challenges facing the trade, both now and in the future. What solutions are there for overcoming these challenges?

What challenges are YOU dealing with now?


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

DIY forums, how to YouTube videos, and even the forums for "professionals" only are providing homeowners with information that used to take years of apprenticeship to learn.

There isn't a solution to this problem but we as plumbers can be conscious of the information we share. Understanding that PZ can and will be searched by homeowners looking for free information. 

We are losing markup potential for products like Water Heaters. When a half decent company like Rheem sells to the public, plumbers are left with the tab. DIY installs will always have more product returns, customer service time, and online complaints. Even professional brands are usually available online, sometimes for less than at the local supply house. As plumbing contractors we have the choice to buy from manufactures that still have respect for what we do. Refuse to install a tank that was purchased online. I also refuse to service a Whirlpool or Rheem. Hell the box store installers won't even service them. 

Home Advisor is another threat to the plumbing industry, especially for shops that focus on residential service. Amazon, Angies List, and dozens of other platforms are trying to make plumbing a commodity. Home Advisor might bring your business short term success but you are feeding a beast that you may not be able to compete with years down the road. I will never be a customer to any of these pimps. 



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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

This is the kind of **** that happens when anybody is allowed to purchase a water heater. 


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> DIY forums, how to YouTube videos, and even the forums for "professionals" only are providing homeowners with information that used to take years of apprenticeship to learn.
> 
> There isn't a solution to this problem but we as plumbers can be conscious of the information we share. Understanding that PZ can and will be searched by homeowners looking for free information.
> 
> ...


THIS!!!!!! Could not have said better!


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

PlumbingZone said:


> What do you feel are the biggest challenges facing the trade, both now and in the future. What solutions are there for overcoming these challenges?
> 
> What challenges are YOU dealing with now?


Wages, benefits, work conditions. 

Seattle, NY, and California are heading toward $15.00 minimum wage. Pretty soon the rest of the nation will follow. The average pay for a plumber is $20.00 with little or no benefits, so in a few years, plumbers will be making a bit over minimum wage.

I'm in favor of doing away with ticket and commission workers in the trades. Have everyone use a time clock to get paid from check in to check out. Have benefit packages just like normal businesses. 

Getting apprentices for this trade was never easy. I live in a state where working for a pot grow or McDonald's pays better with easier work and a better future. All of us are running ads for helpers. My last one was offering $15.00 and I got no interest.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Lack of business education. Not college courses necessarily (not that they are bad), but the economics of business in the real world. This applies as much to employees as to business operators.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Lack of business education. Not college courses necessarily (not that they are bad), but the economics of business in the real world. This applies as much to employees as to business operators.


 business education is very important. Looking at the business from the employe side looks simple but when you see it from the other side it is a little different and a lot more involved than you could imagine.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

wyrickmech said:


> *business education is very important. *Looking at the business from the employe side looks simple but when you see it from the other side it is a little different and a lot more involved than you could imagine.



*That statement above is why I wrote the paper "FULL CIRCLE MATHEMATICS" and the seminar! Both can be seen on my alternate web site below!

Both require a file download but they are safe. The seminar sample you have to open as read only 
*


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## SHEPLMBR70 (Feb 25, 2016)

The internet. Plain and simple.


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## Mr-Green (Apr 29, 2013)

Challenges I face? Constant layoffs, ****ty attitudes, nepotism, unable to gain experience/ training in different areas of the trade, work conditions, Mr. DIY, plumbing licensing and its enforcement....


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## Eddy k (Jan 30, 2015)

Finding the perfect GC to work for, still chasing the rainbow.


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## wharfrat (Nov 1, 2014)

It may be difficult to find people willing to the hard work.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

The internet with places advertising plumbing parts and fixtures at a much deeper discount than what our supply houses can sell to us.

The dumbing down the trade, is what really hurt us. The reason we had to go through an apprenticeship was to learn a skill that took years of practice. With PVC, PEX, heck even copper with the ProPress, and push type fittings, it just makes it to easy for anyone slightly handy to do their own plumbing. Back in the day when DWV was done with cast iron and galvanized, there was no room for error, same went for galvanized water piping. Copper when you had to sweat a joint at least that took a bit of skill, but with all this no sweat fittings.. Look they even taking the skill out of gas piping with the MegaPress.

The other issue is the hardware stores selling plumbing parts and fixtures. Tell me do you see these same stores selling HVAC parts? You have to go to a heating and AC supply, and they will not sell to you unless you are a HVAC contractor. Heck as a plumber I try to buy parts from the HVAC supplies houses and get turned away. That is how plumbing used to be way back when. Now Joe homeowner, or Mr Handy Guy can purchase most plumbing parts at a hardware store, and if they don't got it a Plumbing supply house is more than willing to sell to them.

Then you have the licensed arse holes out there under cutting everyone else. Selling parts at cost, labor at a 10% mark up. All they are doing is hurting our industry. You talk to fire sprinkler fitters, they go to quote a job each bid is within a couple hundred bucks. Plumbers, they cut each other to were they are doing the work for nothing.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

This.....


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Looks like a handyman reading info from this forum installed that !

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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

Constant rising insurance costs.
Unlicensed guys cutting our throats. All the money we pay for certifications and CE classes and permit fees. Yet you never see any more effort/money spent to catch the guys stealing food off our tables.


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

paultheplumber1 said:


> Constant rising insurance costs.
> Unlicensed guys cutting our throats. All the money we pay for certifications and CE classes and permit fees. Yet you never see any more effort/money spent to catch the guys stealing food off our tables.


Yes I 2nd this ^


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

paultheplumber1 said:


> Constant rising insurance costs. Unlicensed guys cutting our throats. All the money we pay for certifications and CE classes and permit fees. Yet you never see any more effort/money spent to catch the guys stealing food off our tables.


Is RI even have continuing education? If so I missed it.


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

Not yet but I hear it's in the works. And I support it.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

paultheplumber1 said:


> Not yet but I hear it's in the works. And I support it.


 that's what I heard also.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

paultheplumber1 said:


> Not yet but I hear it's in the works. And I support it.


 that's what I heard also.


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## TerryO (Oct 12, 2012)

I agree with the comments about DIY TV and UTube "How to fix it" videos. Had a woman call the office the other day. Call got transferred to me and I was informed right away that she had watched all the UTube videos on how to fix her problem and she knew all about it. I asked her why she didn't just do it then to which she responded she didn't have the tools. She only wanted a price quote from us. I explained our $75.00 diagnostic charge and that we would give her an exact quote before we did the repair. No, no, no I don't want that because I already know how to fix it, I just want the quote without you coming out. Even if we did give phone quotes, which we don't, for someone who knew everything she couldn't even explain it to me where I could understand whether she had a drain, water or gas line problem. 

So, this got me thinking. The Internet is here to stay and so are the DIY shows and nuts giving bad advice at the big box stores. How can we work around them and use them for our benefit? 

I've got some ideas but I'd like to hear from some of the rest of y'all.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

TerryO said:


> I agree with the comments about DIY TV and UTube "How to fix it" videos. Had a woman call the office the other day. Call got transferred to me and I was informed right away that she had watched all the UTube videos on how to fix her problem and she knew all about it. I asked her why she didn't just do it then to which she responded she didn't have the tools. She only wanted a price quote from us. I explained our $75.00 diagnostic charge and that we would give her an exact quote before we did the repair. No, no, no I don't want that because I already know how to fix it, I just want the quote without you coming out. Even if we did give phone quotes, which we don't, for someone who knew everything she couldn't even explain it to me where I could understand whether she had a drain, water or gas line problem.
> 
> So, this got me thinking. The Internet is here to stay and so are the DIY shows and nuts giving bad advice at the big box stores. How can we work around them and use them for our benefit?
> 
> I've got some ideas but I'd like to hear from some of the rest of y'all.


It's tough for me to talk bad about someone trying to fix their own plumbing since I DIY everything. Van or personal vehicles break down I check you tube and the manual and fix it myself but I'm not a licensed mechanic. My oven broke, with my Hvac skills I was able to diagnose and fix it but I'm not an oven repairman. When my wash machine broke I checked you tube and learned to take the whole thing apart and change the motor but I'm not an appliance repairman. Just a few examples but I'll give anything a shot before I call someone to repair something at my house. 
I do think it will all change soon due to schools removing all shop classes and society raising a bunch of wusses that want to play video games all day, not follow Dad around and learn how to turn a tool, and be a desk jockey/ computer nerd w/ no physical work ethic.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

I agree with this ^^^..
All of my friends, and most of the kids even younger, couldn't plunge a toilet , let alone real plumbing. And most don't want to even try. This may change as they get into their 40s and want to save some money. But, most won't have enough skill to accomplish the job. The next couple of generations should bring back the trades. The problem I see, is lack of younger people getting into the trades. This could be a positive and a negative for us .


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## Eddy k (Jan 30, 2015)

My oldest is almost 12, I am working on large job that will last for six months, going to get him on job this summer, weekends only for I will be the only one there. Going to start out with small tasks, self nailer FHA's, learning fittings, maybe drill some holes not sure exactly, always something to do. Smart kid but he needs to get out there. Not trying to make a plumber out of him but hoping to instill some work habits.


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## Qplumb (Dec 19, 2015)

ace4548 said:


> I agree with this ^^^..
> All of my friends, and most of the kids even younger, couldn't plunge a toilet , let alone real plumbing. And most don't want to even try. This may change as they get into their 40s and want to save some money. But, most won't have enough skill to accomplish the job. The next couple of generations should bring back the trades. The problem I see, is lack of younger people getting into the trades. This could be a positive and a negative for us .


I read in one of the plumbing magazines that over the next several years 40% of the plumbing force will retire. I don't see many kids wanting to become plumbers either. I think it's a positive for me or anyone in plumbing because we will all be more valuable. With everyone from teachers to the president telling kids the only way to be successful is with a college education I think our trade will be secure for years to come. 
I see college educated people working as checkers at Walmart or fast food all the time, making $20,000-30,000 a year with huge student loans. I'm not against higher education but it's not for everybody. I really wish they would have trade school options for high school kids, half a day school & half day trade school.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

I do think all trades will be more valuable as the baby boomers retire... Most of the foreman at my shop are in their early 30's. The older guys retired.. My biggest fear is states taking away licensure away . I know some southern states don't have this, or a real apprenticeship program. My hope is government doesn't take this away from the states that have it, and force the other states to adopt statewide apprenticeships, and licensure.


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## Wes.booth (Sep 20, 2017)

Finding good help. Number one.

I agree with a previous poster. The majoroty of the younger generation does not want to work hard. They want to make a million off of Instagram or Facebook or some weird gluten free food. Which by all means go do that and be successful but there is no one filling the shoes of the retiring baby boomers and alike. 

I have had some younger apprentices but from some reason they can work hard but can't grasp the math or technique. Then there are those who are smart but can't show up for work. I don't know what it is but it just means OUR wages will continue to rise but we lack the appropriate personnel to ever get anything of substance completed in a professional timely manner.

The DIYers don't scare me neither do the unlicensed guys. Eventually everybody gets tired of messing their house up. Just walk away from k ow it all and focus on the right kind of clientele because it's there if you're good enough


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