# DIYer's and Hacks Bashing



## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

Do we (plumbing industry) share any responsibility in this?

Professional plumbing is a noble profession. The plumbers Motto "Plumbers Protect the Health of a Nation" isn't used nearly enough anymore. Do new up and coming plumbers even know this phrase or what it means. I had worked for a Service / Commercial plumbing company for 3 years and NEVER heard the motto. WHY? We have it on our website and live by it.
I personally believe the motto should be changed to "Licensed Plumbers Protect the Health of a Nation.

How are we (plumbing industry) responsible for the DIY'ers and hacks?

1. Whenever a plumber does a side job for a little cash, he/she sends the message 'my experience and knowledge aren't worth a lot' He/she also sends the message that insurance (liability, workman's comp.) aren't important either.

2. Whenever a plumbing truck is seen at Lowes or Home Depot, it sends the message this is where the pro's shop.

3. Manufacturers in my opinion are the biggest threat to our industry. They sold out! Try explaining to a customer the Insinkerator Evolution Pro Essential is different from the one at Lowes. Insinkerator had a video on their site (not sure if it is still there) showing a homeowner how easy it is to install a G.Disp in an hour. Or explain why the Lowes A/S Cadet III is different from the one at the supply house. 

Consumers / DIY'ers are not the only ones to blame. They are not our enemy! *They are our customers.* They do NOT KNOW any better. If they did, they wouldn't be taking on the risk that they are. It is our job to educate them, not bash them. Most DIY'ers have no idea what can result if they do not do it right.

Let's be a part of the solution. Educate your customers and they will educate their friends and family.

As for hacks, wannabe plumbers stealing food off our table - down with all of them!

As for DIY'ers who pose as professionals (in forums) to steal knowledge - that is reprehensible.

As for DIY'ers, when a DIY'er asks a question, don't be defensive. Use the opportunity to educate them as to the risks. Tell them how many years you had to serve as an apprentice before becoming a Journeyman. Tell them what a Master Plumber goes through to EARN the title MASTER PLUMBER.

Elevate our profession so that men/women will choose to be Licensed (educated) Plumbers as a career choice. If we don't, the Professional Plumber will go the way of the dinosaur.

More unites us than divides us.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Call the Chicago Plumbers union hall, the person that answers the phone will say, "The plumber protects the health of the nation".


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

In SC, plumbers have so little training/education. It's really sad. Since DH licenses was not recipricol, he had to take his Master's Test again here. Four years ago, SC didn't even have their own testing agency. He had to go through a private testing agency.

Now they are doing their own testing, one of our cities won't even accept SC State's license to do business. We still have to carry the Private agencies license. I hear (haven't confirmed), that you can take the test online from home.

You are lucky in Chicago!


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*Welp, if there were any lingering questions on whether she belongs, I think it's safe to assume she's in.*

*I could not possibly agree more Plumbcrazy...the MFG's have completely sold out to the HGTV hype and left us to fend for ourselves.*

*What I wonder, with states like my own not allowing anyone aside from a licensed plumber doing plumbing...*
*How long is it before a legal dispute comes up?*

*Lets say some happy homeowner decides to install a water heater based on a MFG online tutorial in a state that prohibits that work...then he burns his house down.*
*(None offer tutorials that I know of...yet)*

*I wonder how that'll play out in court?*


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I had a conversation with a homeowner on this very subject today. I explained to him that his water heater was 18 years old and had several minor code violations ( no expansion tank, no T&P piping, cpvc piped right next to the hot vent, no drip pan in finished basement ) and why in this state only a licensed plumber can install one. And yet many unlicensed people install them cheap and get away with it.
He couldn't believe it at first, he had no idea of the laws around plumbing. He said his neighbor had just put his own water heater in. I informed him that this happens all the time, but technically the neighbor is in violation of state law and if anything happens, his homeowner's insurance will not cover any property damage and that neighbor could lose his house or worse, his entire family to a fire or explosion.
I was extremely forward and truthful about the laws of plumbing contracting and how they work...


.....I got the job and will be installing a new water heater with all the code upgrades Friday Morning.:thumbup:


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumbcrazy said:


> Licensed Plumbers Protect the Health of a Nation


Can I steal that for my own website?



> Whenever a plumbing truck is seen at Lowes or Home Depot, it sends the message this is where the pro's shop.


I shop there myself. Last trip was for an attic fan motor for myself and some tarps for the plumbing business. I saw a plumbing/drain cleaning van in the parking lot and two guys in branded t-shirts talking to someone. By the time I got out of town (Idaho Falls), I saw three more of that company's trucks on the road. I'm not sure that it isn't the place where the pros shop. 



GrumpyPlumber said:


> *What I wonder, with states like my own not allowing anyone aside from a licensed plumber doing plumbing...*
> *How long is it before a legal dispute comes up?*


My state allows homeowners to do anything, and apparently allows most anyone to do anything. Several years ago, the local plumbing inspector told me that "No one has ever gone to jail in the state of Idaho for a plumbing violation, and no one ever will."

In fact, there have been several instances over the years of people lobbying to get rid of the labor board entirely. "There's no teeth in the law," says the state.

Of course, they can always pull the license of a plumber if they want to . . .


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Head on over to Mississippi where there are no plumbing liscenses. Thats right anyone will a pair of pilers can do plumbing. They tried to pass that law in my homestate but luckily it got shot down before it got out of hand.....


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> Head on over to Mississippi where there are no plumbing liscenses. Thats right anyone will a pair of pilers can do plumbing. They tried to pass that law in my homestate but luckily it got shot down before it got out of hand.....


You don't need a plumbing license in Cali either, just a GC's license. They will let any fool that can pass a written test do plumbing work.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Thats crazy to me.... Its bad too because they drop the bottom line way down for us.... not to mention doing some nasty and dangerous work.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Arizona is also a right to work state.


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## OldPlumber (Aug 4, 2008)

Uh Oh .. I heard my State named. Ron, you're right about the right to work state part. However, that only means that you don't have to be union. 

For contracting you Have to be licensed .. with the only exception of the handyman clause. The handyman clause states you can perform work up to $750.00 without being licensed, and you cannot combine/separate tickets to avoid this clause. Personally I think it still stinks and should be done away with !!!!!!!!! They still get away with way to much .. and have no real clue what they are doing anyway ! I.E. who's it helping .. nobody !


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## OldPlumber (Aug 4, 2008)

I also should have added that they are required to let EVERYONE know they are NOT Licensed. Yea Right .. like that happens !


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Posted by Hanno Ix

I am a DIY homeowner and landlord. 
I am tired to pay the obscene rates the plumbers here charge: i.e. 180$ for changing one outside faucet! This product does away with dangerous soldering and the difficulties of compression connections - and with the greedy plumbers. 
I can see why plumbers would hate it: Works too good, too easy to install - spoils the infinite greed of the plumber brotherhood. Serves them right!


I ripped this from another forum that I use to frequent before I found this one..... This is why I have severe distaste for DIYers. He outright says we are greedy and we charge obscene rates. Yet he was asking for advise from PLUMBERS on a plumbing fourm. We might bash them but I promise you they bash us just the same....


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> I ripped this from another forum that I use to frequent before I found this one..... This is why I have severe distaste for DIYers. He outright says we are greedy and we charge obscene rates. Yet he was asking for advise from PLUMBERS on a plumbing fourm. We might bash them but I promise you they bash us just the same....


Let me guess, Terry Love's home for hacks.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Let me guess, Terry Love's home for hacks.


Yeah I think I remember a guy on there from AZ who would basically work for a toke, a cheeseburger, and a few good vibes. He thought I was a crook because I actually charged for my services and wouldn't instruct people who were obviously way over their heads in the how to's of my livelihood.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Let me guess, Terry Love's home for hacks.


Lol. Ive heard of that one. But no it was Gardenweb.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

If anyone listens to the very popular "Rick and Bubba" radio show this morning (I think it was this morning) you probably were cringing just like me as they extolled the virtues of "mighty putty". It started off as a discussion of Billy Mays that guy with the dark beard that sells everything on tv. When they got onto the mighty putty thing (one of Billy's commercials) they started off as skeptics but after a couple of phone callers testimonials praising "mighty putty" they were ready to buy stock. I wish I could take the listening audience around with me every time I come across a putty repair hack job.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

I have said it before... I can poke a hole in a plastic cup and hold it with my finger all day long, just like the putty can. But plaster that crap on a hole in a 3/4" line and add about 60lbs of pressure. Better get you slicker suit:laughing:


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Just hang around DIY Chatroom for a few laughs. 
Not really plumbing related but this guy wants to use a hose to clean bat **** out of his chimney and flush it down his basement floor drain. He doesn't want to listen to anyone. See his post next week on snaking floor drains.
http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=24937

Then their are the posts that piss you off. 
Guy calls a plumber then decides to try and fix it himself before the plumber gets there to save a few bucks. I bet he wouldn't extend the courtesy of a phone call either. I'm surprised no one jumped on him before I did.
http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=25155
I don't own the company I work for so this isn't my policy (though I agree with it). If I showed up at that job I'd write him a bill for the $70 minimum charge. He isn't going to want to pay it but after enough phone calls most deadbeats end up paying. Their are full time office personal who have the time to make the annoying phone calls.
I think a collection agency is an overlooked tool by many companies. You can send even a small amount to collections and it usually only costs you a percentage of money you would otherwise never see. The agency makes their money by tacking on their fees to the amount owed and can legally do it. The longer the people resist the higher the fees. They may end up going to court in which chase that guy is going to be responsible for your $70 and $500 in collection agency fees. It will be the last time he pulls something like that.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Marlin said:


> Just hang around DIY Chatroom for a few laughs.
> Not really plumbing related but this guy wants to use a hose to clean bat **** out of his chimney and flush it down his basement floor drain. He doesn't want to listen to anyone. See his post next week on snaking floor drains.
> http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=24937
> 
> ...


WOW! That place is an absolute disaster area...people working on their own PRVs and T&Ps with absolutely no idea what they are doing! Questions about using screw-clamps on pex and guys trying to repipe their own houses with ZERO experience plumbing...YIKES! I am staying out of that place.:boat:


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Why does my shower pan feel soft, is it supposed to have something under it?

http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?t=26020


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

:laughing: I love looking at the DIY sites. Some of the questions crack me up


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## I'mYourTourGuide (Jun 23, 2008)

In kentucky, manufacturer's warranty and homeowner's insurance CAN BE VOIDED if damage in a house is found from a plumbing installation that wasn't permitted and inspected.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Had a good one today.
We ripped all the no hub waste lines out of a restaurant. They had to get replaced because they were rotted through. The reason? The maintenance guy put no hub pipe in with Ferncos and it was pitched like a roller coaster. I don't know how anything was draining the lines were so packed full of grease. Nasty job.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Plumbcrazy said:


> Do we (plumbing industry) share any responsibility in this?
> 
> Professional plumbing is a noble profession. The plumbers Motto "Plumbers Protect the Health of a Nation" isn't used nearly enough anymore. Do new up and coming plumbers even know this phrase or what it means. I had worked for a Service / Commercial plumbing company for 3 years and NEVER heard the motto. WHY? We have it on our website and live by it.
> I personally believe the motto should be changed to "Licensed Plumbers Protect the Health of a Nation.
> ...


 
Excellent post


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## plumbingpaul (Sep 18, 2008)

*Diy*

My policy has always been if a homeowner trys to save money by "helping" me or doing work before I show up I add $20 dollars an hour to my hourly rate. I had a guy today who is a maintence man for a large commercial building call me to change out a faucet of all things and have the f*ing balls to say to me he is a plumber but he didnt want to do it. I asked him what plumbing experience he had and he said he had never worked for a company but he knew how to solder. You can imagine how I wanted to scream at this Dou**e bag but instead I just charged him double and he paid me! HA


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## jeffc (Jul 8, 2008)

In Washington state GC,s are always doing thier own plumbing and there is no training card or vocational education requirements for the licences


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