# contract drawings vs As built



## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

For all of you experienced foremen out there, I have a question. Contract drawings are provided by the architect/engineer, but we don't always plumb the job per plan. My question is, to what extent are we permitted to stray from the drawings? For example, putting pipes in a different wall than specified, moving a floor clean out or floor drain/sink from the location on the architecturals, changing the routing of pipes from the contract drawings, omitting an unnecessary wall clean out. As a detailer, I need to learn when it is okay to use my good judgement to make changes.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Read your specs. No variation without written permission

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

In my opinion you clear any changes with the general contractor... If he wants he will speak with the engineer about changes and give you an answer... If you do it that way then it's ther as if it doesn't work ... You change it on your own and it screws up you have to fix it out of pocket ....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Based on a recent lapse in judgement, I attempted to strike a deal with an out of state GC on a small commercial project. (finish out a tenant space in a mall)

As usual, the GC was complaining about my price being too high. He had two bids. Me at $8700 and another Plumber at $7100 (so he said). In short the plan called for H/C copper piping, 6 gallon water heater, mop sink, r/r concrete as needed.

Other guy didn't have the level of liability insurance required and zero worker's comp coverage. He was going to use PEX for the water lines. GC flipped out when I said I wouldn't change my bid to PEX to meet the price without signed approval from the architect. He was enraged even more when after 3 months of not hearing from him, he wanted us to start with 24 hours of notice.

So when something failed on the job, who do you think would have been liable? The GC in another state or me right down the street. I never heard back from him with the architect's approval and I'm glad. Some jobs are not worth having.


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## 100 Watt (Aug 11, 2011)

In my experience it really depends on your inspector and GC. Most of the time a slight deviation from the plans is overlooked. A major change and the inspector will ask for revised plans. As long as you've cleared it ahead of time with the GC, hopefully no big deal. Sometimes though the engineer will not want to change the plans because they are ultimately putting their name on them saying it will work.

We've all seen jobs "over engineered" such as 4" drain to a single toilet. We all know 3" is all you need for a toilet. In the end, bid the job per plans. Then, tell them you can "value" engineer it for them. As long as the engineer will redraw to your layout, great.

Most engineers over size to CYA. Most vent every fixture seperatley because they don't know of venting exceptions. 

Just my $.02


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

ILPlumber said:


> Read your specs. No variation without written permission
> 
> Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


When I submit for signoff there's a space provided to explain any variance to the plan 
If its out there then they want the plans amended to reflect actual plumbing. Sometimes they just get whatever plan proved completely go off script and the amend amend amend


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Sometimes the G.C can authorize changes, other times the architect. Just all depends. I was doing a Lincoln Mercury dealership and it called for a roof drain to be in a stairwell with 8" cast iron. I told the super no way am I putting it there and see if he could move it over about 4'. The roofers were just now putting down the 2" thick foam board. He authorize the change for me to scoot it over out of the stairs and the roofers can slope to it. No issues at all. Some times you have to change the locations from what they drew due to other trades. That's why you draw as builts so they can have a correct copy.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

house plumber said:


> Sometimes the G.C can authorize changes, other times the architect. Just all depends. I was doing a Lincoln Mercury dealership and it called for a roof drain to be in a stairwell with 8" cast iron. I told the super no way am I putting it there and see if he could move it over about 4'. The roofers were just now putting down the 2" thick foam board. He authorize the change for me to scoot it over out of the stairs and the roofers can slope to it. No issues at all. Some times you have to change the locations from what they drew due to other trades. That's why you draw as builts so they can have a correct copy.


Couldn't agree more... As-built drawings are your friend. The contractor I work for is multi faceted and is running piping, sheet metal and electrical.

Their office trailer compound is bigger than some of the towns my relatives live in.

This job is so poorly engineered that the have an "interference team" of 6 men working piping around sheet metal, electrical around piping... Etc.

I could give you a set of mechanicals and a set of architecturals and tell you to point to any room. I would be able to show you some sort of mechanical interference.

The chases are a nightmare. Every ceiling space is crowded beyond capacity. Walls have been thickened or extended...

I make changes every day. Sometimes I go track down my foreman or gf if it's a major. If it's common sense (pipe can't go through ductwork, like shown on print) I do what I need to do. But I always inform him after, and I've never had to go back and re route something under those circumstances.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

ILPlumber said:


> Read your specs. No variation without written permission
> 
> Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


 




What IL Plumber said. And if you want to do something that deviates from the print, you submit and RFO. Then the engineer will get back to you.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> What IL Plumber said. And if you want to do something that deviates from the print, you submit and RFO. Then the engineer will get back to you.


RFO? I'm not familiar. Do you mean RFI, TP?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

U666A said:


> RFO? I'm not familiar. Do you mean RFI, TP?


 




Ha ha ha, my bad. I'm trying to type too fast. Yes I meant to say, er type RFI....:laughing:


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## SCADman (Aug 13, 2011)

The job I'm working on is being engineered in house. This may be why we are able to make so many changes, and they will just change the drawings for the next addendum.

But I still don't know what's acceptable. It seems that I'm allowed to throw a FCO wherever it is convenient for the way I ran the pipe underground, and not necessarily following the plans... but is this typical of most jobs?

On a number of occasions, I rerouted piping below, and my foreman would say something like "just run the vent up the other wall, it's closer." Mind you, it also had a Wall CO, so that was relocated as well. Are these changes that can typically be made at will, knowing for a fact that it will work just fine?

Another example, I have a floor drain riser fitting to fitting below. The pipe gets shifted for some reason, and I'm told to leave it fitting to fitting, which moves the floor drain over a foot or so. So obviously the location of that drain was not critical, and could be moved at will. I can't find the rhyme or reason to what can or can't diverge from the plans, and to what extent.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Funny but the job we just bid wouldn't pass any code that's out there. I know that I spent way too much time going over all the drawings to see if "my way" would fit in. We finally did up a DWV system that would work AND fit in to the rest of the bldg. No approvals, no nothing. We'll see when they open the tenders next week.

Same thing with the job we're just finishing. Had a site meeting with the engineer some weeks ago and he chimes in, "Oh! You're not going by the "old" drawings, are you?". S'cuse me *what??? * Then he fishes around in his paperwork and comes up with a plotter printed version of an e-mail of the drawing I'd submitted! "We're using this now."

"Um... ok then."... :whistling2:

It's really all a crap shoot. It shouldn't be but it sure seems that the onus is on the hacks in the trenches and not the overpaid shirts that layout the place.
Read the fine print. It'll be hidden in there somewhere that if your work isn't up to snuff for whatever reason then it'll be your hide on the rack.

Mig


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

In my area in Florida we can do what ever in residential. well I've seen only 3 houses that we had to follow the plans. Only in commercial we must follow the plans.


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