# CPVC fittings breaking



## Problem Solver

We do both HVAC & plumbing. As plumbers we have stocked some CPVC for repair work for 25+ years. One problem we have in our area is air conditoning condensate drains that get plugged in the summer and flood the furnace/fan coil and damage the electrical system and components. Most of our competitors use barbed fittings and vinyl hose which allows some water to sit in the coil drain pan and grow brown crap which plugs the drain. 25 years ago we got smart and started using CPVC for condensate drains. No more plugged drains and damaged equipment. (Hope the competitors never catch on as the repair work is great for business:laughing. However, lately we have had a couple of failures of the CPVC fittings. We have been on a couple of drain leaks on systems we installed and have found the fittings cracked and leaking. Both systems were less than five years old. I am thinking the purified water from the coil is removing something from the fittings and pipe causing them to become brittle and crack. Has any one seen this? Have not seen it on water systems.


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## Bollinger plumber

we need an intro from you before we can answer any questions


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## Airgap

Where do you find this magical CPVC that won't stop up?


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## Airgap

> *Problem Solver*[/font];49787]We do both HVAC & plumbing. As plumbers we have stocked some CPVC for repair work for 25+ years. One problem we have in our area is air conditoning condensate drains that get plugged in the summer and flood the furnace/fan coil and damage the electrical system and components. Most of our competitors use barbed fittings and vinyl hose which allows some water to sit in the coil drain pan and grow brown crap which plugs the drain. 25 years ago we got smart and started using CPVC for condensate drains. No more plugged drains and damaged equipment. (Hope the competitors never catch on as the repair work is great for business:laughing. However, lately we have had a couple of failures of the CPVC fittings. We have been on a couple of drain leaks on systems we installed and have found the fittings cracked and leaking. Both systems were less than five years old. I am thinking the purified water from the coil is removing something from the fittings and pipe causing them to become brittle and crack. Has any one seen this? Have not seen it on water systems.


pitter... patter..


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## Protech

What? CPVC drying out and cracking? no, can't be.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> What? CPVC drying out and cracking? no, can't be.


 The better question is WTF are you using cpvc anyway for a cold water condensate line? Why not just pvc?


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## ILPlumber

I'm sure he will give us an intro. nudge nudge. hint hint......

pitter patter....

Hopefully sometime within the next 25 years.


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## Bill

ILPlumber said:


> I'm sure he will give us an intro. nudge nudge. hint hint......
> 
> pitter patter....
> 
> Hopefully sometime within the next 25 years.


the ban hamster has spoken!


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## ILPlumber

Gee thanks Bill!

Who the heck is going to solve our problems now:laughing:


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## Airgap

I was looking forward to this one....I wanted to learn about the purified condensate....come back problem solver, we got problems.


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## TheMaster

airgap said:


> I was looking forward to this one....I wanted to learn about the purified condensate....come back problem solver, we got problems.


 The man said the cpvc worked better because the black poly and the insert fittings allowed crap to build up at the fittings. makes sense.


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## Protech

Actually, size for size, PVC would be better than cpvc due to the bigger ID.


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## Airgap

Protech said:


> Actually, size for size, PVC would be better than cpvc due to the bigger ID.


 :furious:You tryin' to make this a serious thread?? Stop it right now.


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## Protech

Sorry:blush:


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## TheMaster

between the two...cpvc is better than the insert crap. Looks like we have a watch maker here.


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## Airgap

Protech said:


> Sorry:blush:


:laughing:messin witcha...you were right though:thumbsup:


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## Problem Solver

al said:


> we need an intro from you before we can answer any questions


I'm from Iowa............at least I don't have to be shown:laughing:


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## Problem Solver

airgap said:


> Where do you find this magical CPVC that won't stop up?


Who said it stops up? It BREAKS! Sheesh doesn't any body read the post? What a bunch of dummies.....must be plumbers. Glad I received my new Iowa state HVAC lisc and plumbing lics from the state of Iowa yesterday in the mail. Now I can officially do plumbing in this state cause the state said so.......so there! BTW, don't get me started on that one.

Problem Solver


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## Problem Solver

Possible, but have never seen this problem before.


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## Problem Solver

TheMaster said:


> The better question is WTF are you using cpvc anyway for a cold water condensate line? Why not just pvc?


Only DIY and well guys use PVC. Everyone knows that.....DUHH:no:

We don't stock PVC. AND, I have seen it plug up. I think the xtra chlorine molecule may help prohibit the crap from growing. Just my I my thought, no proof.


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## Protech

OK, I think we can officially conclude this guy is NOT a plumber.



Problem Solver said:


> Only DIY and well guys use PVC. Everyone knows that.....DUHH:no:
> 
> We don't stock PVC. AND, I have seen it plug up. I think the xtra chlorine molecule may help prohibit the crap from growing. Just my I my thought, no proof.


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## TheMaster

Problem Solver said:


> Only DIY and well guys use PVC. Everyone knows that.....DUHH:no:
> 
> We don't stock PVC. AND, I have seen it plug up. I think the xtra chlorine molecule may help prohibit the crap from growing. Just my I my thought, no proof.


 Now I understand you. Thanks for clearing things up like you did.:laughing: Its obvious to me now:thumbsup:.


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## Problem Solver

OK. I am 57 yrs old and happily married...except the wife left me last Sunday....to spend time with the grandkids in Minnesota fishing. Well the grandkids, boy age 10 and girl age 7, are fishing. Got pics on the phone yesterday, each caught a 30" northern off the end of the dock in 3-4 ft of water. All I got last weekend were sunfish and rock bass.

Grew up doing plumbing, heating, and hydronics. Dad started the business in 1957. Went to college for HVAC service and install. Learned plumbing as an apprentice. Took my journeyman license and then eventually masters for both trades. Am Block & Associates tested. Does that make me a blockhead?!?!

We specialize in repair and remodel. Our trucks all say "The Problem Solvers" because when you have a plumbing or heating problem, we fix it. Just my nature, I can't quit until the problem is solved. And, callbacks cost me money.

We are the oldest and original State and AO Smith service agents in the area. So I get a lot of calls from frustrated plumbers working in the field on broken water heaters. (Shut the power off dummy before you kill yourself. Just because that idiot light tester on that 220 element says there is know power betrween the screws doesnt mean there's not 220 there!)

So someone tell me why the CPVC is breaking. BTW, we ONLY plumb with copper for water. Have the tools and fittings for PEX, both crimp and expand, for repair only.

Enough intro? I can go on for days


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## Problem Solver

Lets see. To make distilled water we take water vapor from the air and cool it so it condenses w/o the minerals back into liquid state. HMMMM, thats what an air conditioning coil does. Voila! Purified mineral free water. Just corrosive as heck.


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## Problem Solver

Gee. I didn't know plumbers could be such fun guys. BTW, we DO NOT let anyone have a license in in this area who uses PEX. Only DIY guys and jack legs use it because they can get it at the biog box stores.


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## TheMaster

Please continue...It's a good read!


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## Ron

Welcome to PZ Problem Solver.


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## Protech

Couldn’t they just use pvc/cpvc just as easily? cpvc seems to be the material of choice for DIY and handy men around here. Maybe just plain old pvc if they are really cheap.

Now that you've posted your intro I'll give you some help. Both pvc and cpvc are not naturally flexible. They are both brittle like glass. During manufacturing they add plasticizers to the resin to make if flexible. Those plasticizers then leach out of the resin into the water over the years and the resin becomes brittle again. In application where the pipe sees repeated/rapid/extreme temperature swings it moves and breathes back and forth due to thermal expansion. These movements tend to focus the deformation on the points where two or more pipes meet at different angles (i.e. fittings). Because the fittings are now brittle and are the focal points of the movements that is where you see the breaks. To make things worse, the bead of cement at the edge of the fitting where it meets the pipe weakens the pipe due to the solvents that soak into the pipe from the bead. Another common problem with plastic fittings is a bad "knit". When injection molding the fittings they sometimes don't get the right heat and pressure and the 2 halves of the mold don't weld properly. This results in the fittings splitting down the center as soon as you insert the pipe with cement or later on down the road.

I hope this helps.



Problem Solver said:


> Gee. I didn't know plumbers could be such fun guys. BTW, we DO NOT let anyone have a license in in this area who uses PEX. Only DIY guys and jack legs use it because they can get it at the biog box stores.


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## Protech

And FYI, in most of the united states pvc is the standard material for condensate drains.


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## Airgap

Problem Solver said:


> Lets see. To make distilled water we take water vapor from the air and cool it so it condenses w/o the minerals back into liquid state. HMMMM, thats what an air conditioning coil does. Voila! Purified mineral free water. Just corrosive as heck.


 Helgore, welcome back.


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## Airgap

Problem Solver said:


> Gee. I didn't know plumbers could be such fun guys. BTW, we DO NOT let anyone have a license in in this area who uses PEX. Only DIY guys and jack legs use it because they can get it at the biog box stores.


 we are the mostest funnest ever! Have to be, just think about it.


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## Protech

Well speak of the devil, look at the call I just finished. The same day as this thread even!


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## Plasticman

Protech you are right about the fittings splitting. The coupling in the video is one of those short couplings and they are always the culprit. They are supplied in the package when you buy a cpvc washer box or icemaker box, in my area that is. I have never had any other cpvc fitting to break like that besides these little short couplings. One exception,,, when you use a cpvc fip adaptor. These jokers have an " O " ring in the bottom of the threaded socket and will split with the blink of an eye. I bet that is what problem solver had on his condensate pan. He will correct me on that i'm sure, if I'M wrong, just my hypothesis. Most condensate pans I ever saw had a male thread made into the pan. Therefore I think, most folks would go to hd or slowes and buy a cpvc or pvc fip adaptor instead of a brass x cpvc fip without knowing any better. Big mistake... 
Pex is ok for some, but I like cpvc. Just have to have faith in it and know with experience what fittings to use where, or not to use. Personally, I don't have faith in crimp rings of any kind but I have never installed pex either so I can,t really judge it. I am not cutting you down at all. I just know that cpvc has worked great for me for the past several years and have been happy with the results. 
Btw, you were supposed to train me on that stuff, remember?


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## Optimus Primer

All plastic females will break. Someone said that cpvc to brass male and females were splitting where they join together.


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## Plasticman

house plumber said:


> All plastic females will break. Someone said that cpvc to brass male and females were splitting where they join together.


why would anyone connect a male and female fitting together? I am lost here. Don't they sell couplings? Not those short ones of course.


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## Plasticman

ok. I re-read your post.. I guess you are talking about where the brass and cpvc are manufactured together. My bad. Blonde moment here. 
I have never had a brass x cpvc mip or fip to fail as of yet. hmm.


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## Optimus Primer

Oh I see how you got that confused. I wrote that pretty stupid. But I've never seen those short cpvc coupling you're talking about. Just the couplings that are about an inch long. We've had cpvc pipe split. There were air bubbles in it. The pressure blew a slpit in the pipe.


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## TheMaster

Crimped joints dont leak unless the fitting fails...like those bras ones or well water eats them up. I posted pics with some pumped up to 600 psi


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## Protech

:yes:correctomundo


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## TheMaster

I noticed the other day that some pex fittings I had are not smooth on the interior were its machined. Theres a ridge there. looks like thats going to collect mineral deposits


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## Protech

I haven no idea what you're talking about. That coupling is the same as every other coupling I've ever installed. In fact, the couplings I put back in were identical if you watch the video. I've had all kinds of cpvc fittings split down the knit before. Many of them did it right as I inserted them. I've had st.90, 90, coupling and tees do it. It's happened so many times I can't even count. One of the many reasons I can't stand cpvc.



Plasticman said:


> Protech you are right about the fittings splitting. The coupling in the video is one of those short couplings and they are always the culprit. They are supplied in the package when you buy a cpvc washer box or icemaker box, in my area that is. I have never had any other cpvc fitting to break like that besides these little short couplings. One exception,,, when you use a cpvc fip adaptor. These jokers have an " O " ring in the bottom of the threaded socket and will split with the blink of an eye. I bet that is what problem solver had on his condensate pan. He will correct me on that i'm sure, if I'M wrong, just my hypothesis. Most condensate pans I ever saw had a male thread made into the pan. Therefore I think, most folks would go to hd or slowes and buy a cpvc or pvc fip adaptor instead of a brass x cpvc fip without knowing any better. Big mistake...
> Pex is ok for some, but I like cpvc. Just have to have faith in it and know with experience what fittings to use where, or not to use. Personally, I don't have faith in crimp rings of any kind but I have never installed pex either so I can,t really judge it. I am not cutting you down at all. I just know that cpvc has worked great for me for the past several years and have been happy with the results.
> Btw, you were supposed to train me on that stuff, remember?


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> I haven no idea what you're talking about. That coupling is the same as every other coupling I've ever installed. In fact, the couplings I put back in were identical if you watch the video. I've had all kinds of cpvc fittings split down the knit before. Many of them did it right as I inserted them. I've had st.90, 90, coupling and tees do it. It's happened so many times I can't even count. One of the many reasons I can't stand cpvc.


 You used the same pipe and fitting brand? And they just split? Brand new? I know a few years ago the city banned all cpvc installed inside the walls unless it was flowguard Gold pipe and fittings. Maybe thats why....but in your video its flowguard. i wonder if that coupling was flowguard. i hate the crap for potable water....if I come across it I slap a sharkbite on it and go to pex. Nobody uses cpvc here but for relief lines. Mostly handymen use it here. Nobody likes it here. I dont either.Crap snaps like spagetthi


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## Optimus Primer

Another thing about cpvc, is everyone aware you're supposed to bevel the edge on the pipe before you glue? They say it pushes the glue off if you don't. Kinda like sch 80 I guess.


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## Protech

Yes, it was a flowguard fitting that snapped.

Why don't you use a proper cpvc be pex transition fitting? You just like doing it the handyman way?



TheMaster said:


> You used the same pipe and fitting brand? And they just split? Brand new? I know a few years ago the city banned all cpvc installed inside the walls unless it was flowguard Gold pipe and fittings. Maybe thats why....but in your video its flowguard. i wonder if that coupling was flowguard. i hate the crap for potable water....if I come across it I slap a sharkbite on it and go to pex. Nobody uses cpvc here but for relief lines. Mostly handymen use it here. Nobody likes it here. I dont either.Crap snaps like spagetthi


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## Plasticman

Protech said:


> I haven no idea what you're talking about. That coupling is the same as every other coupling I've ever installed. In fact, the couplings I put back in were identical if you watch the video. I've had all kinds of cpvc fittings split down the knit before. Many of them did it right as I inserted them. I've had st.90, 90, coupling and tees do it. It's happened so many times I can't even count. One of the many reasons I can't stand cpvc.


 I am as we speak, going to my truck. See if I can find a short coupling like I am talking about, and a longer one. Will take a pic of both and post. Just gimme a while. I will report back.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Yes, it was a flowguard fitting that snapped.
> 
> Why don't you use a proper cpvc be pex transition fitting? You just like doing it the handyman way?


 Whats wrong with the sharkbite? Its better than the cpvc your installing it on.


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## Protech

Yeah, I'm sure that if I come to your job site you and your crew will be beveling that pipe. Get real. Other than myself (and I don't even do it ether most of the time) I have NEVER in my whole carrier as a plumber seen anyone bevel a piece of cpvc smaller than 3". In fact, more often than not they don't even do it with corzan ether.


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## Protech

It's not as good as a glue joint. I don't like cpvc, but I'd trust a properly glued joint over a sharkbite any day of the week. There are a few situations that I use shark bites. I avoid it if I can. I'm not saying I won't use them, I just try and do what's best when I can.



TheMaster said:


> Whats wrong with the sharkbite? Its better than the cpvc your installing it on.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Yeah, I'm sure that if I come to your job site you and your crew will be beveling that pipe. Get real. Other than myself (and I don't even do it ether most of the time) I have NEVER in my whole carrier as a plumber seen anyone bevel a piece of cpvc smaller than 3". In fact, more often than not they don't even do it with corzan ether.


 Ok I'ma get real with ya. No real plumbers here would use cpvc in a real house. Its in rental garbage and trailer homes. Bevelved pipe or no beveled pipe its garbage. I hit it with sandtape to knock the sharp edge off it and pop the sharkbite on and get out of the ghetto or outta hilllbillyville where they would complain about the invoice no matter it was 50 bucks or 500 hundred. Until I have a call where I installed one and its leaked......Ill will continue. if it leaks in 10 years...I'll go back and repair it and hand them another bill. I'm not in it to change the world. Thats how i feel on a friday afternoon after dealing with dumb+++ homeowners all week in 90+ temps


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## Plasticman

ok. Here is the pic. It is a tad blurry but the one on the left has a ridge in the center with no co. name. The one on the right is a bit longer and skinnyer and does have a lot of print embossed in it but I can't find a magnifing glass to tell you what it says. The short one will break easily. not the longer one.


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## Plasticman

TheMaster said:


> Ok I'ma get real with ya. No real plumbers here would use cpvc in a real house. Its in rental garbage and trailer homes. Bevelved pipe or no beveled pipe its garbage. I hit it with sandtape to knock the sharp edge off it and pop the sharkbite on and get out of the ghetto or outta hilllbillyville where they would complain about the invoice no matter it was 50 bucks or 500 hundred. Until I have a call where I installed one and its leaked......Ill will continue. if it leaks in 10 years...I'll go back and repair it and hand them another bill. I'm not in it to change the world. Thats how i feel on a friday afternoon after dealing with dumb+++ homeowners all week in 90+ temps


 Actually, I thought the whole state of Alabama was " hillbillieville".


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## TheMaster

I'm mad at protech anyway...he will not help design a homemade solar system. And compares me to a handyman.....dayum:laughing:. Tha man plays hardball:laughing:


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## TheMaster

Plasticman said:


> Actually, I thought the whole state of Alabama was " hillbillieville".


 I've spent plenty of time in the florida panhandle. Dont kid youself...florida has plenty and i mean PLENTY of its own species of hillbillies:laughing: Destin,P'cola,ft.Walton,gulf breeze,panama city.......Oh I've spent plenty of summers over there:laughing: Feels just like home!!!!:laughing:


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## Protech

Actually, I was trying to come up for an economical design for you last night but no matter how I design it the numbers just don't work.....unless the materials are close to free. To get the same amount of thermal out put as a commercially made collector you end up spending the same amount of money or more. You might as well just install the commercially made collector and have something that's listed and OG-100 certified.

Think about it, do you honestly think you could build an electric water heater that would have the same life cycle cost to construct and operate as a commercially built one? Why then, would you think a solar collector would be any different? You aren't the first person to think of it you know. Hell, I must get 8 or 9 yahoos an month calling me up wanting to do the same thing. I think it's the "sticking it to the man" attitude that goes with solar that causes people to attempt this. Bottom line is its foolishness. I'm not tryin to put you down ether man. I'm just tellin ya how it is. I mean look at me. I have a shop full of fabrication materials and equipment and I have a store bought collector on my roof. Why? Because I crunched the numbers and it just wasn't worth it.

I'll tell ya what, you want a collector design? Fine. Start a thread on it and I'll start cranking them out. When you find one you like, build it. Just don't cry about it when you end up spending the same amount as a store bought one for something that isn't going to be as nice(aesthetically or mechanically)


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## Protech

Yeah, I've used those thicker ones a few times. Most of the time it's the standard ones on the left that I've used though and that's usually what I see installed. I don't think the thicker one is a flowguard. I think that's a genova or someother brand.



Plasticman said:


> ok. Here is the pic. It is a tad blurry but the one on the left has a ridge in the center with no co. name. The one on the right is a bit longer and skinnyer and does have a lot of print embossed in it but I can't find a magnifing glass to tell you what it says. The short one will break easily. not the longer one.


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## Optimus Primer

I never said I beveled it. I'm just stating manufacture specs say it needs to be beveled. But I bet if it comes down to lawsuits with this stuff they can hold that against anyone if it isn't beveled. It's called cover your ass.


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## TheMaster

It is about sticking it to the man and the materials are free. So help the 10th yahoo out. I have a butt load of 1/2" od type L hard stick copper pipe. Free of charge by the way and i dont use it. lets use it


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## Protech

I have seen leaks due to the pipe not being pushed in straight. When it's pushed in at an angle, one side of the fitting gets all the cement squeegeed off the inside of the hub and then joint leaks after a few years of thermal cycling.


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## Optimus Primer

if you're really giving away a butt load of 1/2 L. I'll drive up there personally and pick it up.


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## Protech

OK.



TheMaster said:


> It is about sticking it to the man and the materials are free. So help the 10th yahoo out. I have a butt load of 1/2" od type L hard stick copper pipe. Free of charge by the way and i dont use it. lets use it


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

me too, have a nice band saw that will chop that **** up just fine.


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## Optimus Primer

we still use copper. Probably the only plumbers in the state that does.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

I use it on my shower and tub valves.


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## TheMaster

I said it was given to me......i wanna build a homemade solar collector with it. I have some cop friends that wanna talk to rockstarplumber now. Its 3/8 I.D 1/2" OD


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## Optimus Primer

Me too.


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## Optimus Primer

TheMaster said:


> I said it was given to me......i wanna build a homemade solar collector with it. I have some cop friends that wanna talk to rockstarplumber now. Its 3/8 I.D 1/2" OD


Oh, trailer copper.


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## TheMaster

house plumber said:


> Oh, trailer copper.


 Actually the supply house that closed stocked it for one plumber here that does a ton of medical gas piping......its all cleaned and capped


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## Optimus Primer

Oh, my bad.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

sure, tell your backwoods corn holers to click the link on my sig and give me a call. Ft waltons not that far, i can meet them halfway, and i can tell them they had me at "hello."


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## 422 plumber

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> sure, tell your backwoods corn holers to click the link on my sig and give me a call. Ft waltons not that far, i can meet them halfway, and i can tell them they had me at "hello."




Dude, that's so wrong, yet hilarious at the same time. Good thing I finished my sun tea, or it would have been all over the monitor.


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