# How do you extend a urinal flush tube?



## Best Darn Sewer

I'm working on a urinal flush valve and ended up having to replace the urinal. The new urinal is a hair lower than the old one and the flush tube will not fit. The rough in did not allow for tolerance and I need to know how to extend the flush tube without having to redo the rough in for the valve or the drain. The old flush tube barely stuck into the spud but now I have a gap of about a 1/4". Any ideas?


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## Best Darn Sewer

I got it to work but it looks like crap. If anyone has suggestions then maybe I will come back and correct this being the business is about to close.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Crooked as hell but no leaks. Haha.


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## 89plumbum

They sell longer ones. Ferguson stocks them here.


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## dplumb

Sloan makes an extension kit for that. 1/4"... that sucks!


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## bct p&h

I know that make 3 different sizes for toilets but I'm not sure if they do for urinals.
If they don't I can think of 2 ways to fix it.
1- chrome 90 facing down to drop the height of the whole flush valve.
2- get a piece of 4"x4" stainless with a hole drilled in the middle. Use it to cove the hole you cut in the frp to fix the rough.


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## theplumbinator

Look under the thread: plumbing pictures, and check out " blown rough flushometer" thats a perfect example of how this could be remedied if you cant find a longer vacuum breaker tailpiece. Basically what was suggested above a chrome st 90 and point the valve down. Too bad they dont make a 3/4 tubular tailpiece extension. Or if they Do ive never seen one. Could make one but no way to not mess up the chrome if you heat it up to sweat an extension on.


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## JWBII

I've gotten longer flush tubes for urinals plenty of times. Moore Supply, Coburns Supply, Morrison Supply all have had them when I needed them. I've never been allowed to fix any other way than to either break tile or longer tube.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> Look under the thread plumbing pictures and check out " blown rough flushometer" thats a perfect example of how this could be remedied if you cant find a longer vacuum breaker tailpiece. Basically what was suggested above a chrome st 90 and point the valve down.


Yeah, I have seen that thread and thought about that. I was hoping to avoid that as the customer already wasn't too pleased with having to replace the entire urinal due to too heavy of urea build up in the trap. But I will look at Fergusons for the extension kit or longer tubes.


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## Best Darn Sewer

bct p&h said:


> 2- get a piece of 4"x4" stainless with a hole drilled in the middle. Use it to cove the hole you cut in the frp to fix the rough.


I like your 2nd solution. Haha.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Thanks to all of y'all for all the help. I really appreciate it as will my customer. Rarely is repair straight forward and having a valuable resource like this forum is fantastic.


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## theplumbinator

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Yeah, I have seen that thread and thought about that. I was hoping to avoid that as the customer already wasn't too pleased with having to replace the entire urinal due to too heavy of urea build up in the trap. But I will look at Fergusons for the extension kit or longer tubes.


Did you try sizzle in the old urinal before replacing with new? That stuff usually works pretty well. To clean out the scale. Should have sold an automatic sensor flushometer to compliment the new China. Wouldn't have to worry about dirtbags that are too lazy to flush, witch is what did in his last fixture. and he would see you less often.


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## suzie

extension tube at your wholesale shop. I have been on jobs where the rough ins were off and guys tried to plumb in kits just a hair too short. Get the right part you are the professional.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> Did you try sizzle in the old urinal before replacing with new? That stuff usually works pretty well. To clean out the scale. Should have sold an automatic sensor flushometer to compliment the new China. Wouldn't have to worry about dirtbags that are too lazy to flush anymore and he would see you less often.


I don't agree with using chemicals to remove the build up because it will just build up again and quicker. The build up occurs on non-glazed traps. The old one didn't have a fully glazed trap and was only 1". I first tried to scrape out as much as I could but the bulk of it was in a spot that even my 1/4" cable couldn't reach. In this situation I think replacing it was the fastest and best way to solve the issue. Unfortunately, I created a new issue in the process. But thanks to all you guys I can correct it. 

If it were my business and my urinal than I would consider using chemicals but for customers I don't feel that doing that is very professional. Also, if it didn't work I am right back where I started.


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## Best Darn Sewer

suzie said:


> extension tube at your wholesale shop. I have been on jobs where the rough ins were off and guys tried to plumb in kits just a hair too short. Get the right part you are the professional.


I coul


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## Best Darn Sewer

suzie said:


> extension tube at your wholesale shop. I have been on jobs where the rough ins were off and guys tried to plumb in kits just a hair too short. Get the right part you are the professional.


I couldn't agree more. I can't stand rigging things up. For the short term I had no choice because they are having an office party tomorrow and needed a working urinal. I told the owner I will be back to install the extension kit.


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## theplumbinator

Yes I agree best thing to do was replace urinal if the trap was UN glazed. It would have been callback with a chemical in that situation.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> Did you try sizzle in the old urinal before replacing with new? That stuff usually works pretty well. To clean out the scale. Should have sold an automatic sensor flushometer to compliment the new China. Wouldn't have to worry about dirtbags that are too lazy to flush, witch is what did in his last fixture. and he would see you less often.


I agree with the automatic flushometers but they are pricey. I think the main issue on this urinal had more to do with the brand: American Standard. Most of the trap wasn't even glazed. Only the part that was exposed was glazed and it was clean as a whistle. In fact, I didn't think the clog was going to be urea build up due to it being so clean looking. But, looks can be deceiving.


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## theplumbinator

Yes I dont even call them American Standard any longer. They are made in Mexico now, so its false advertising to me if we called them anything other than Mexican Standard....


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> Yes I dont even call them American Standard any longer. They are made in Mexico now, so its false advertising to me if we called them anything other than Mexican Standard....


Haha. Yeah, I like pointing out the oxymoron to customers when they buy their toilet. It says right inside the tank, "Made in Mexico by American Stsndard". Hilarious. But I will say that the new champion flush toilet is a good design. At least the newest version with the improved flapper and flush valve. It's expensive but it has a good flush.


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## theplumbinator

I dont hate the champion either not a bad toilet for the price, comparable to the Cimaron. But im a die hard TOTO guy. Think I want my ashes flushed down a G-max when I expire someday.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> I dont hate the champion either not a bad toilet for the price, comparable to the Cimaron. But im a die hard TOTO guy. Think I want my ashes flushed down a G-max when I expire someday.


Are you in service or new construction?


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## justme

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Yeah, I have seen that thread and thought about that. I was hoping to avoid that as the customer already wasn't too pleased with having to replace the entire urinal due to too heavy of urea build up in the trap. But I will look at Fergusons for the extension kit or longer tubes.


instead of replacing the urinal , soak the urinal in CLR overnight and it will break up all the build up in the urinal trap.


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## justme

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I don't agree with using chemicals to remove the build up because it will just build up again and quicker. The build up occurs on non-glazed traps. The old one didn't have a fully glazed trap and was only 1". I first tried to scrape out as much as I could but the bulk of it was in a spot that even my 1/4" cable couldn't reach. In this situation I think replacing it was the fastest and best way to solve the issue. Unfortunately, I created a new issue in the process. But thanks to all you guys I can correct it.
> 
> If it were my business and my urinal than I would consider using chemicals but for customers I don't feel that doing that is very professional. Also, if it didn't work I am right back where I started.


The build up occurs from the urinal not being flushed properly or not at all for long periods of time, we have started installing automatic flush sloan valves on all urinals to correct this problem.


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## Best Darn Sewer

justme said:


> The build up occurs from the urinal not being flushed properly or not at all for long periods of time, we have started installing automatic flush sloan valves on all urinals to correct this problem.


I know that not flushing is a part of the issue. The non-glazed trap way is also a major issue. The same happens to cheap toilets. After about ten yrs they get so rough on the internal trap from hard water and urea build-up that they clog constantly.


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## theplumbinator

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Are you in service or new construction?


I do both. More service these days. Not too much new construction happening around here. I have done equal amounts of each during my career. Residential and commercial. Still get a rough once in a while its a nice change of pace keeps me sharp. I specialize in hydronic heating systems though that is my passion.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> I do both. More service these days. Not too much new construction happening around here.


I gotcha. The reason I asked was because you said you prefer TOTO toilets and the service guys I work with don't care for them. But, it is just personal preference. I think Toto is great at marketing but their toilets are nothing special. Their prices are ridiculous. We use Western Pottery out of California and for right at $135 they are a fantastic toilet. I have never seen one clog. A 2 1/4" fully glazed trap way and a great flushing mechanism. But, having said that, I don't recall many Totos clogging either other than old cheap home builder grade ones. Mostly I think Toto is over priced. But H.O.s know their name and think they're the $hit. Pun intended.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> I do both. I specialize in hydronic heating systems though that is my passion.


Ah, I miss hydronic heating. I did some of that when I lived in Montana. Fun stuff.


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## The bear

Worked on an American Standard toilet this year that was stamped made in PR of China.They should have to remove American from their fixtures. American Standard corporate should be ashamed.


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## theplumbinator

I totally agree they are out of control with their prices. The area I work in is chock full o million dollar homes. So I do get a lot of Toto requests. Guess ive just gotten used to them over the years. Kinda like being a Ford,Dodge,or Chevy guy I figure. Kohler makes a decent toilet as of late but I still have to keep 15 different flappers in the truck for the ones still in use. As aposed to the 2 I need for every Toto.


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## theplumbinator

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Ah, I miss hydronic heating. I did some of that when I lived in Montana. Fun stuff.


Yeah I wouldn't think you would run into that many boilers in the great state of Texas. Probably mostly heat pumps down there I would assume.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> I totally agree they are out of control with their prices. The area I work in is chock full o million dollar homes. So I do get a lot of Toto requests. Guess ive just gotten used to them over the years. Kinda like being a Ford,Dodge,or Chevy guy I figure. Kohler makes a decent toilet as of late but I still have to keep 15 different flappers in the truck for the ones still in use. As aposed to the 2 I need for every Toto.


I hear that. Friggin Kohler and their different flappers form every model.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplumbinator said:


> Yeah I wouldn't think you would run into that many boilers in the great state of Texas. Probably mostly heat pumps down there I would assume.


Some heat pumps here and there in Houston. But A/C guys service them. I can get water to them but I prefer to stay away from them. They are a rarity anymore.


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## wyrickmech

If you ever ruff one in cut a inch off of the length of the tube so that you can compensate for differences in the porcelain. This will eliminate problems like this in years to come.


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## Best Darn Sewer

wyrickmech said:


> If you ever ruff one in cut a inch off of the length of the tube so that you can compensate for differences in the porcelain. This will eliminate problems like this in years to come.


What tube? We have gotten off topic a little. Do you mean the tube between the vacuum breaker and spud? Or what?


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## 422 plumber

*vacuum breakers*

This is the chart of the different vacuum breaker lengths. I believe the one that comes in the box is the 9" long model.
The next longest is 10.5" and then the 15" model. The 10.5 is perfect for you.


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## Best Darn Sewer

422 plumber said:


> This is the chart of the different vacuum breaker lengths. I believe the one that comes in the box is the 9" long model.
> The next longest is 10.5" and then the 15" model. The 10.5 is perfect for you.


Thank you very much.


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## JWBII

I can deal with toto but I hate their concealed flushometers. Mainly cause architects never give optimum room to install them for a hassle free installation.


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## wyrickmech

Best Darn Sewer said:


> What tube? We have gotten off topic a little. Do you mean the tube between the vacuum breaker and spud? Or what?


Yes if you ruff the water in at 10 1/2 instead of11 1/2 you will always have to cut the vacuum tube just a little believe me it is a lot easer than making it work with some other rigged up mess. The dimension that I am referring to is the Ruffin dimension from center of water to top of urial.


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## Best Darn Sewer

wyrickmech said:


> Yes if you ruff the water in at 10 1/2 instead of11 1/2 you will always have to cut the vacuum tube just a little believe me it is a lot easer than making it work with some other rigged up mess. The dimension that I am referring to is the Ruffin dimension from center of water to top of urial.


I gotcha. Makes sense. I guess these guys did it with just enough room. If I ever have to rough in a valve I will make sure to go a little short so it can be trimmed to fit. Good advice.


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## theplumbinator

JWBII said:


> I can deal with toto but I hate their concealed flushometers. Mainly cause architects never give optimum room to install them for a hassle free installation.


On the urinals? Yes they do suck if everything isn't perfect.


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## 422 plumber

I always called that the vacuum tube, Sloan tells you to rough them in at 11.5" above the flood rim of the fixture.


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## JWBII

11.5 above the flood rim? Are you sure about that, they'll have a hell of a time putting a urinal on the wall with the stub out in the middle of it lol.


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## 422 plumber

Good catch, I should have said top of urinal, flood rim of toilet.


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## wyrickmech

Sloan always tells you to ruff the water in 11 1/2 above the fixture height that is a mistake. If you have a urinal that isn't just right you can end up short. If you read the Ruffin sheet for the urinal it will tell you that dimensions may vary plus or minus a 1/4 of a inch,thus the reason for shorting the Ruffin height to 10 1/2 inch.


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## 422 plumber

That's a good idea, it's a lot easier to cut a tube than order a longer one. It seems that most of the china is made overseas, and the QC is non-existent. you really need to brace your water stubouts good, the brickies love to push them over, so they don't have to make cuts in the block.


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