# The Re-pipe



## liquid plumber (Nov 25, 2011)

alrighty then, copper,cpvc,pex? to include the price of drywall paint and texture ? Me you ask? copper, exclusively. Yes i offer composite or other code approved materials but i think the jury is still out on what compounds are leached into the drinking water system with those plastics. Drywall incuded? ohhhhhhh hells yes, people like one stop shopping! i have my drywall/paint contractor meet onsite for the estimate.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

As long as the water ain't acidic or extremely hard, or contains hydrogen sulfide (sulfer), etc. copper is the best choice. If the water is extremely hard, acidic, contains hydrogen sulfide, etc. Then those problems need to be addressed, if copper is going to be used (they should be addresed anyway). But if the HO refuses to adress the problem water, or copper can't be installed due to the installation limitations then pex Is the go to material. That's how we do it


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

depends on what they want to pay for copper pipe and installation is quite a bit more


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

surfdog said:


> depends on what they want to pay for copper pipe and installation is quite a bit more


I frogot to mention that also, if the HO can't afford copper then pex is our go to material. I should have mentioned that.


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## liquid plumber (Nov 25, 2011)

copper is certainly an expensive product, and takes time to install, Perhaps if this thread continues we will find an overwhelming number of plumbers and contractors that prefer pex to copper. Just to clarify we are talking about an expanding pipe with barbed fittings, has anyone had the pleasure of using the expander tool on 1" pipe laying in the dirt under a house? or cramped in the corner of an attic?


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## JenkPlbg (Nov 27, 2011)

Pex pex pex. Crimp ring style. Brass fittings, copper rings. Copper on water heater or any other exposed piping - stub outs.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Pex, copper crimp rings.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

liquid plumber said:


> copper is certainly an expensive product, and takes time to install, Perhaps if this thread continues we will find an overwhelming number of plumbers and contractors that prefer pex to copper. Just to clarify we are talking about an expanding pipe with barbed fittings, has anyone had the pleasure of using the expander tool on 1" pipe laying in the dirt under a house? or cramped in the corner of an attic?


 
Your talking Uponor, I have the power expander. 1" SUCKS! 

I love copper, I can run copper all day long, sadly nobody wants to pay for it out here so I am all pex man now. I can make pex look fairly good still. I like the crimp rings but do not like the reduction in the fittings. This is where Uponor is good, they have the same ID as copper. Uponor isnt even sold locally out here. 

I do believe in some ways pex is better then copper, especially for return lines and such. I also believe the chemically made plastic pex fittings are better then the brass fittings.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Pex...nice for the homeowner, nice for the plumber...


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I once was a staunch copper guy. Then for some reason when I got out on my own, pex just started to make more sense and the cost is tremendously lower, which allows me to more easily sell jobs. 

I don't even discuss copper when I quote a re-pipe except to ask if they would be a stickler about it. 

Oh, and that would be superpex from wolverine brass, with crimp rings. You try it once and you wont go back, its way to nice to work with. I pushed a remodel back a month ago because I was waiting for my new shipment of superpex. Now I stock 4 - 100' rolls of 1/2", and 2 - 100' rolls of 3/4


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## liquid plumber (Nov 25, 2011)

sweet now we are gettin somewhere, sounds like a few plumbers are down with crimp rings. certainly pex can be an attractive product when installed with a level of craftmanship, its hard to convince an apprentice that "PLUMB" is a word in the dictionary, adv. 1) in a vertical or perpidicular line. , adj. 1) exactly vertical :blink:. As im sure alot of us have found during countless job site inspections, when the inspector shows up and your installation LOOKS plumb and square, he wont be as prone to dig deeper. But let him show up on some crooked DWV, chances are he gonna ask you to start splainin fixture units,trap arm length, meter size, water bond and ohhhhh by the way----------


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## incarnatopnh (Feb 1, 2011)

Pex with copper crimp rings. Copper pipe too expensive to sell the job around here. Never the stainless cinch rings, just don't like them.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Give the costumer what they want except crimp fittings under the slab!!!!


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Mostly pex crimp with copper bands and plastic fittings with the exeption of pex by sweat or fip's. I'll be glad when they start making plastic pex by sweat.:blink: Actually pex brass doesn't hold up well here. Best value imo is uponor. I just think it's a superior product with the exeption of being more expensive and require lots more room for manifolds etc.
Competition is tough enough without going copper which doesn't hold well here either.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

I guess we are still one of the few hold outs on using copper and chrome supplies.

We went through the problems with Service Blue and gray Polybutelyne so you might say we are a little gun shy.

Depending on length our water services are copper upto 1". Any thing larger is copper or fused HDPE.

If the client insists on Pex we will then install it, but it will be stated that there is no warranty on the product. The installed cost is 20% cheaper than copper. 

PVC is used for drains and will never install CPVC and hate to even connect to it.


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## liquid plumber (Nov 25, 2011)

Associated Plum said:


> I guess we are still one of the few hold outs on using copper and chrome supplies.
> 
> We went through the problems with Service Blue and gray Polybutelyne so you might say we are a little gun shy.
> 
> ...


im with you, i still sell copper repipes exclusively. Problem in southern ca is a typical 2 story, 2000 square foot house, 2.5 bath, 50 gal water heater, with permits runs a whoppin 5800 bucks. i have had more than a few homeowners with that dreaded "ohhhhhhh hell no" look on their face, throw in another 1300bucks for the drywall,paint,texture and the home owner is like " release the hounds!!!!" and im all doin a sprint back to the safety of my van. Back in the day i would at least throw out a lifeline and ask the HO, "well lets talk turkey, Where are you at on price?" and at least negotiate a deal. but at 5800 there aint much wiggle room. So my point is, if all the other fellers are starting to hit the front door with a pex repipe estimate they may at least get an extra 5 minutes with the homeowner before they sick the dogs on HIS a**


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## liquid plumber (Nov 25, 2011)

as associated plum suggests, CPVC...... absolutely foul. KB homes did a number of communities out here with that garbage, i makes alot of wompum fixin leaks, but as associated plum points out "i hate connecting to the stuff" for me personally i make the repairs with like materials, so cpvc out......cpvc in


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> Your talking Uponor, I have the power expander. 1" SUCKS!
> 
> I love copper, I can run copper all day long, sadly nobody wants to pay for it out here so I am all pex man now. I can make pex look fairly good still. I like the crimp rings but do not like the reduction in the fittings. This is where Uponor is good, they have the same ID as copper. Uponor isnt even sold locally out here.
> 
> I do believe in some ways pex is better then copper, especially for return lines and such. I also believe the chemically made plastic pex fittings are better then the brass fittings.


You think 1" is bad, I have re-piped a couple of hotels using 1-1/2" propex, I also use propex power expander.

I use copper for anything exposed and all of my stub outs and I would never use crimp rings.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

liquid plumber said:


> im with you, i still sell copper repipes exclusively. Problem in southern ca is a typical 2 story, 2000 square foot house, 2.5 bath, 50 gal water heater, with permits runs a whoppin 5800 bucks. i have had more than a few homeowners with that dreaded "ohhhhhhh hell no" look on their face, throw in another 1300bucks for the drywall,paint,texture and the home owner is like " release the hounds!!!!" and im all doin a sprint back to the safety of my van. Back in the day i would at least throw out a lifeline and ask the HO, "well lets talk turkey, Where are you at on price?" and at least negotiate a deal. but at 5800 there aint much wiggle room. So my point is, if all the other fellers are starting to hit the front door with a pex repipe estimate they may at least get an extra 5 minutes with the homeowner before they sick the dogs on HIS a**


 
That is not a bad price at all for a copper repipe in a house that size. And you throw in a new 50 gallon w/h? I don't think I could do a job of that scope for that price and make a worthwhile profit. There are outfits here that would get that for a pex repipe.


Paul


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## liquid plumber (Nov 25, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> That is not a bad price at all for a copper repipe in a house that size. And you throw in a new 50 gallon w/h? I don't think I could do a job of that scope for that price and make a worthwhile profit. There are outfits here that would get that for a pex repipe.
> 
> 
> Paul


truth of the matter is, there is not a great deal of profit doing repipes out here, the large cake comes from service calls, lots and lots of service calls. i rank re-pipes with remodeling and construction type work, you are gonna see profit margins under 5points. but toss in a couple of repipes and a remodel or two and pow, yer makin bacon. Its the copius amounts of liabilty involved with repipes, remodeling and new work that sucks out loud.


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## Paddy (Sep 2, 2011)

> If the client insists on Pex we will then install it, but it will be stated that there is no warranty on the product.


Not taking sides here, but what about the manufacturer's warranty?


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

*Geez alert!*

Sort of reminds me when ABS/PVC DWv first hit the market. We jumped on the bandwagon, working with CI/DWV copper was getting old...just did a lead joint the other day for a friend...


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

liquid plumber said:


> im with you, i still sell copper repipes exclusively. Problem in southern ca is a typical 2 story, 2000 square foot house, 2.5 bath, 50 gal water heater, with permits runs a whoppin 5800 bucks. i have had more than a few homeowners with that dreaded "ohhhhhhh hell no" look on their face, throw in another 1300bucks for the drywall,paint,texture and the home owner is like " release the hounds!!!!" and im all doin a sprint back to the safety of my van. Back in the day i would at least throw out a lifeline and ask the HO, "well lets talk turkey, Where are you at on price?" and at least negotiate a deal. but at 5800 there aint much wiggle room. So my point is, if all the other fellers are starting to hit the front door with a pex repipe estimate they may at least get an extra 5 minutes with the homeowner before they sick the dogs on HIS a**


Start testing water before you put together an estimate perhaps. You don't want to bury copper in acidic soil without sleeving, why install copper in a house supplied with highly corrosive water without a filtration system.


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

Plumb Bob said:


> You think 1" is bad, I have re-piped a couple of hotels using 1-1/2" propex, I also use propex power expander.
> 
> I use copper for anything exposed and all of my stub outs and I would never use crimp rings.


 
which power expander are you using ?


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> Your talking Uponor, I have the power expander. 1" SUCKS!
> 
> I love copper, I can run copper all day long, sadly nobody wants to pay for it out here so I am all pex man now. I can make pex look fairly good still. I like the crimp rings but do not like the reduction in the fittings. This is where Uponor is good, they have the same ID as copper. Uponor isnt even sold locally out here.
> 
> I do believe in some ways pex is better then copper, especially for return lines and such. I also believe the chemically made plastic pex fittings are better then the brass fittings.


which power expander are you using ?


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Heck i would get 4600 for that 2 bath, existing wh new delta t/s , and new o&/d shower

Secondary cut off with s.s. handled bv

Pex,brass,cu rings

Not brave enough to jump on plastic fitting band wagon


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

HOMER said:


> which power expander are you using ?


I use propex battery expander model Q6251500

I believe it is electro hydraulic

I also just purchased milwaukee m12 expander, it works well with 1/2 & 3/4. Have not used it for 1" yet.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I have a nice repipe coming up. I was called out to a leak in a wall. Owner could hear the dripping and had a wet floor. I walked in and was listening for the drip when it blew out. A 3/4 Pex brass tee in wall behind WH. 
I have really good results so far with the polimer fittings. Plumbing is 11 years old. Plumbing in well house is shot too. Every fitting I saw was crusted to the max. I'm gonna get a water sample and see what's in the water. Maybe some treatment is in store.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

mpsllc said:


> I have a nice repipe coming up. I was called out to a leak in a wall. Owner could hear the dripping and had a wet floor. I walked in and was listening for the drip when it blew out. A 3/4 brass tee in wall behind WH.
> I have really good results so far with the polimer fittings. Plumbing is 11 years old. Plumbing in well house is shot too. Every fitting I saw was crusted to the max. I'm gonna get a water sample and see what's in the water. Maybe some treatment is in store.


Sounds like really hard and acidic water.


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

Plumb Bob said:


> I use propex battery expander model Q6251500
> 
> I believe it is electro hydraulic
> 
> I also just purchased milwaukee m12 expander, it works well with 1/2 & 3/4. Have not used it for 1" yet.


 
just wondering if the m18 propex expander will do a satisfactory job on !"


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