# Kohler DTV custom shower



## Michaelmiagi (Jan 8, 2016)

Kohler DTV shower. Sometimes we get to have fun.  go ahead, bust me down and tell me what I did wrong everyone. Lol 

https://www.facebook.com/BatchelorPlumbing/


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Looks good. Only thing you have done wrong is not starting out with an introduction in the introduction section.


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

Those are fun. I've installed 1. I've installed about five of the 4 panel rain head


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

no vacuum breaker on the hand held, unless is built in to the wall 90


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Optimus Primer said:


> no vacuum breaker on the hand held, unless is built in to the wall 90


Why would you need it? It's a shower


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> Why would you need it? It's a shower



Because our code states it. 

424.2 Hand showers. 
Hand-held showers shall conform to ASME A112.18.1/CSA B125.1. Hand-held showers shall provide backflow protection in accordance with ASME A112.18.1/ CSA B125.1 or shall be protected against backflow by a device complying with ASME A112.18.3.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

chonkie said:


> Looks good. Only thing you have done wrong is not starting out with an introduction in the introduction section.


Yep! Better do that...

You'll like the forum a lot more...


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Optimus Primer said:


> no vacuum breaker on the hand held, unless is built in to the wall 90


Could be integrated in the handle of the handheld.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

chonkie said:


> Could be integrated in the handle of the handheld.



could be. could be in the 90 as well. we have to tape the paper work to the wall to prove to the inspectors that it is installed integral.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> Why would you need it? It's a shower


Only needed if it can reach the floor. If it can reach the shower floor, it could syphon.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Don't get me wrong. Not bashing his work. Looks good. Bayside500 is about to do one in a condo. well actually 2 in the master shower.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

chonkie said:


> Only needed if it can reach the floor. If it can reach the shower floor, it could syphon.


Correct.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Optimus Primer said:


> Don't get me wrong. Not bashing his work. Looks good. Bayside500 is about to do one in a condo. well actually 2 in the master shower.


I didn't have an issue with what you're saying. I guess it does seem like i'm defending his work. I wasn't, just discussing things. Hope the OP doesn't take it as bashing either. I think it's good to keep each other on our toes.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

chonkie said:


> I didn't have an issue with what you're saying. I guess it does seem like i'm defending his work. I wasn't, just discussing things. Hope the OP doesn't take it as bashing either. I think it's good to keep each other on our toes.


Right on. Also, I hope the fad with those tubs ends real soon. They suck. How does everybody keep theirs from spinning when they get bumped in to


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Tubs are usually the last thing i'm doing, so most other trades are done. DAP the base when finished installing and testing, then warn everybody to not touch it for a few days. I'll try to tape off the area if there's a bunch of people around.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

Optimus Primer said:


> Don't get me wrong. Not bashing his work. Looks good. Bayside500 is about to do one in a condo. well actually 2 in the master shower.


i will post pics once i am done roughing it in, i think the hard part is going to be setting up the user interface controller and getting everything to work right.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

chonkie said:


> Only needed if it can reach the floor. If it can reach the shower floor, it could syphon.



I can see that 1/16" backup being a problem


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

It all looks great to me 

but I think to myself in 30 years
that is gonna be some poor plumbers nightmare to
attempt to make repairs on 

glad I wont be around to deal with it.......o


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

Looks great,
I'm just not a fan of pex


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> It all looks great to me
> 
> but I think to myself in 30 years
> that is gonna be some poor plumbers nightmare to
> ...


Oh... I thought I was the only one seeing a Kohler Parts nightmare one day down the road...:laughing:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Oh... I thought I was the only one seeing a Kohler Parts nightmare one day down the road...:laughing:


No. Bayside and I saw it too. But since we only do new construction, we didn't care. :laughing:


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> I can see that 1/16" backup being a problem


I used to rough in handheld showers so the handheld couldn't be submerged. I never liked installing the vacuum breakers because they're ugly and usually end up dripping. That was until an inspector told me he didn't care if it could be submerged in the the fixture. He was more concerned with the bucket full of bleach or any other cleaning supply the homeowner might use in there. Couldn't argue with him because he wasn't wrong.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> but I think to myself in 30 years
> that is gonna be some poor plumbers nightmare to
> attempt to make repairs on glad I wont be around to deal with it



Why would Kohler be different than any other brand in 30 years? 
How about Dornbracht Hans Grohe, Rohl or Waterworks? 
At least with Kohler, you'll have a pretty good chance they will still be in business.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumbus said:


> Why would Kohler be different than any other brand in 30 years?
> How about Dornbracht Hans Grohe, Rohl or Waterworks?
> At least with Kohler, you'll have a pretty good chance they will still be in business.


Kohler has reinvented the wheel for every product they made...

With an infinite number of revisions...

Consequently there isn't a Kohler Supplier anywhere that stocks even a miniscule portion of their service parts line.

Hell... For that matter when you call Kohler themselves you can almost count on the part being "Out of Stock, Backordered," with a 3-4 week wait for delivery...

That is what is different about Kohler...


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

i agree with the service parts end of it. kohler could give me a dtv for free and i wouldnt put it in my house. the last one i installed was in a president of kohlers house. i also installed the numi as a prototype. i was happy to have all of the department leaders doing the programming for me. they were recording my install for their call center so they could answer questions for the rest of the installers. pain in the a$$ job. the pay was nice though. i asked the toilet engineers if i should install a floor drain by the toilet for future leaks. they smiled and wouldnt answer.:laughing:


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Kohler has reinvented the wheel for every product they made...
> 
> With an infinite number of revisions...
> 
> ...


Red
Haven't you dealt with sourcing parts for obscure European faucets?
When it comes to Kohler, I have a friend who does their factory service (for selected customers) in my area. 
He can expedite (even the back ordered stuff).


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumbus said:


> Red
> Haven't you dealt with sourcing parts for obscure European faucets?
> When it comes to Kohler, I have a friend who does their factory service (for selected customers) in my area.
> He can expedite (even the back ordered stuff).


When it come to the obscure European Faucets around here I know exactly who to blame and get the parts from...

1st try Whites Plumbing in West Haven... They are closest..

2nd try Klaffs in Norwalk...

3rd try this new faucet...


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Plumbus said:


> He can expedite (even the back ordered stuff).


Can he become the official Kohler parts person for PZers?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

chonkie said:


> Can he become the official Kohler parts person for PZers?


Yea... Really...

At the Kohler supply house they say, "Order direct from Kohler because we won't get anything until we order a truckload.":blink:

From Kohler they say, "That part is Out of Stock, Backordered 3-4 weeks.":whistling2:

Personally I think they don't stock anything and order it from their vendor when you place the order...

If someone could expedite parts that would be great...:thumbsup:
Not to worry, I don't install Kohler crap for that reason...

I just tell customers with Kohler stuff they are screwed for 3-4 weeks waiting for a part, and offer them Delta or Toto...

I'll tell them that I've the common parts for those on my truck and can get the other parts locally...:thumbup:

Sometimes it makes a sale...:whistling2:


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

chonkie said:


> Can he become the official Kohler parts person for PZers?


I don't think he'd be interested. 
He orders electronically through a special account. Though I've never heard him make a complaint, next time I drop by his shop I'll ask him if he has problems with back orders.


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## plumber tim (Jul 4, 2013)

One issue with the Kohler DTV shower systems is if you have a tankless water heater they can have issues. You have to have equal pressure and volume on hot and cold with the DTV That can be difficult to achieve with a tankless


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Kohler has reinvented the wheel for every product they made...
> 
> With an infinite number of revisions...
> 
> ...




The Kohler brand is 100% junk..... we cant even get parts for tub and shower faucets only 5 years old... they change the design and their parts book is literally larger than the yellow pages.


I look at that mess you have installed in that wall and I think what a night mare it will be for someone when one of those cartridges goes bad and needs to be replaced 10 years from now....:laughing::laughing:..



.


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## Michaelmiagi (Jan 8, 2016)

We all probably agree that Kohler is radically difficult to service, especially several years after installation. However, Kohler is the only supplier who is integrating technology and modern design into their fixture spectrum. There is nothing on the market that even resembles the Kohler DTV system. So if a customer wants a plumbing fixture that can not only integrate with the other technology in their home but to also have a modern look and feel, then you almost have to look at Kohler. Face it people, technology is here to stay and will only become more and more apparent in our trade through time. 

Secondly, as plumbers, one of our greatest skills is the ability to make things work that others cannot and to repair the presumed "unrepairable." I took the time to install this system with unions at each connector to allow for ease of removal and repair. As far as the piping, I don't understand the argument with PEX piping. We all know that copper does not stand up over time and that CPVC becomes very brittle. The biggest problem I see with PEX piping is when plumbers don't have any concern for how it looks and loops it around each corner and bend without proper strapping and bracing. It looks terrible and puts extra strain on the piping itself. I firmly believe that PEX piping installed correctly with brass fittings rather than plastic ones and calibrated crimpers is by far our best option. 

Thanks to all those that can appreciate the challenge of making a system such as this one not only work, but also be installed in a organized and clean manner.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Michaelmiagi said:


> We all probably agree that Kohler is radically difficult to service, especially several years after installation. However, Kohler is the only supplier who is integrating technology and modern design into their fixture spectrum. There is nothing on the market that even resembles the Kohler DTV system. So if a customer wants a plumbing fixture that can not only integrate with the other technology in their home but to also have a modern look and feel, then you almost have to look at Kohler. Face it people, technology is here to stay and will only become more and more apparent in our trade through time.
> 
> Secondly, as plumbers, one of our greatest skills is the ability to make things work that others cannot and to repair the presumed "unrepairable." I took the time to install this system with unions at each connector to allow for ease of removal and repair. As far as the piping, I don't understand the argument with PEX piping. We all know that copper does not stand up over time and that CPVC becomes very brittle. The biggest problem I see with PEX piping is when plumbers don't have any concern for how it looks and loops it around each corner and bend without proper strapping and bracing. It looks terrible and puts extra strain on the piping itself. I firmly believe that PEX piping installed correctly with brass fittings rather than plastic ones and calibrated crimpers is by far our best option.
> 
> Thanks to all those that can appreciate the challenge of making a system such as this one not only work, but also be installed in a organized and clean manner.


Hey Mr. Miagi, how about you wax on/wax off an intro for us. Thanks


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## Michaelmiagi (Jan 8, 2016)

I would be happy to if I had any idea what you are talking about ....


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Sushison (Nov 24, 2013)

Michaelmiagi said:


> We all probably agree that Kohler is radically difficult to service, especially several years after installation. However, Kohler is the only supplier who is integrating technology and modern design into their fixture spectrum. There is nothing on the market that even resembles the Kohler DTV system. So if a customer wants a plumbing fixture that can not only integrate with the other technology in their home but to also have a modern look and feel, then you almost have to look at Kohler. Face it people, technology is here to stay and will only become more and more apparent in our trade through time. Secondly, as plumbers, one of our greatest skills is the ability to make things work that others cannot and to repair the presumed "unrepairable." I took the time to install this system with unions at each connector to allow for ease of removal and repair. As far as the piping, I don't understand the argument with PEX piping. We all know that copper does not stand up over time and that CPVC becomes very brittle. The biggest problem I see with PEX piping is when plumbers don't have any concern for how it looks and loops it around each corner and bend without proper strapping and bracing. It looks terrible and puts extra strain on the piping itself. I firmly believe that PEX piping installed correctly with brass fittings rather than plastic ones and calibrated crimpers is by far our best option. Thanks to all those that can appreciate the challenge of making a system such as this one not only work, but also be installed in a organized and clean manner.


I worked with a guy who loved long, lazy loops. Something about the friction loss is greater in a fitting than a loop. Although, the pex should always be secured with isolator so and tube tallons to prevent knocking.


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