# Looking to get into using flex shaft?



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)




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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Great info. I don't have a flex shaft and might never get one as I'm the typical punch a hole through and try your best to blindly clean out as much as you can. It is though still interesting to see and learn more about such things.

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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I can talk about this here before other places but I'll be offering a class on how to clean drains by using new techniques. Just as an example, my k50, k60, clog dog are off the van and I'm now using my own custom designed equipment....cables and flex shaft, jetter, camera etc. Instead of selling the equipment, I'll just offer the class and you can make your own and if you still want to buy a commercially produced product, then at least you know what features are important.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

gear junkie said:


> I can talk about this here before other places but I'll be offering a class on how to clean drains by using new techniques. Just as an example, my k50, k60, clog dog are off the van and I'm now using my own custom designed equipment....cables and flex shaft, jetter, camera etc. Instead of selling the equipment, I'll just offer the class and you can make your own and if you still want to buy a commercially produced product, then at least you know what features are important.


Around here no one cares about drain cleaning they just want it unclogged and don't want to pay extra just to see a video of their sewer. The closest we come to a specialised drain cleaning company is RR that does both drain cleaning and emptying septic tanks plus service plumbing. They only come close to a drain specialist because they have a jetter but they are not really experts at it.

We have a ****ty montana camera at the shop that we really only use maybe 2 times a year.

I would love something like a flex shaft for the lighter weight and cleanliness but I don't think it would be able to do what a drum machine can when it comes to simple uncloging a line and to fully use it to get that good cleaning you would also need an expensive camera so I'm thinking it has its uses for certain things but it's really not fully getting used unless it

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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

The Dane said:


> Around here no one cares about drain cleaning they just want it unclogged and don't want to pay extra just to see a video of their sewer. The closest we come to a specialised drain cleaning company is RR that does both drain cleaning and emptying septic tanks plus service plumbing. They only come close to a drain specialist because they have a jetter but they are not really experts at it.
> 
> We have a ****ty montana camera at the shop that we really only use maybe 2 times a year.
> 
> ...


 Just curious....how long does your average mainline drain cleaning job take? From the time you're taking tools off the van to the time you're putting tools back in the van?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> Around here no one cares about drain cleaning they just want it unclogged and don't want to pay extra just to see a video of their sewer. The closest we come to a specialised drain cleaning company is RR that does both drain cleaning and emptying septic tanks plus service plumbing. They only come close to a drain specialist because they have a jetter but they are not really experts at it.
> 
> We have a ****ty montana camera at the shop that we really only use maybe 2 times a year.
> 
> ...



It's the same exact same thing here. People WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT PAY FOR A CAMERA. Oh they ask for it, I get a few calls for a camera inspection and they think it will be free because all they see is free estimates from other plumbers!!.Those who are a tad smarter If not free then they have a pre conception it's going to be 20$ or something. They will not pay for a jetter afterwards either! I almost regret the camera purchase and locator equipment. I repeat myself a lot but 95% of people shop prices to have their only toilet to be unclogged!

They wait for weeks and wash their disches in the bathroom hoping the kitchen drain will flush magically then they spend a week buying dollar store drain opener and dollar plunger.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

When I went to the ridgid road show I spent 2 hours at the booth and not a single person checked out the cameras, locators or flex shaft other than me. I think that tells us something about the subject.

One rep was upset when I told him a ridgid camera didn't make any sense here and I had purchased a chinese cam.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

gear junkie said:


> Just curious....how long does your average mainline drain cleaning job take? From the time you're taking tools off the van to the time you're putting tools back in the van?





For me it takes 2-4hrs. If I can just wheel the snake in and open a c.o. then usually around 2 hrs including travel time. Travel time averages a half hour here. But if I have to drain the system and bucket out sewage or pull a toilet then it takes closer to 4hrs billed. 



Just filling out the paperwork and explaining stuff to the customer takes about a half hour usually. If it's a brass plug in cast iron that's a half hour right there. Fixing a bad toilet flange, half hour. Puling the toilet cleanly, half hour. Getting the toilet re-set, leveled, and caulked is usually like 15 but if the floor is bad.....


It's hard to believe, even when you have done it for a long time, just how much time everything takes. I don't fault customers for not understanding just how long it takes.


Darn near everyone I meet at the door disappears by the time I start putting drop cloths down in the bathroom. And right when I am done draining and pulling the toilet, and am about to run the snake they come in and ask what I have found. I tell them I am just now about to run the snake in, they say oh, you haven't put it in yet? I confirm, and they just get this look on their face that is somewhere between confusion and thinking I am a slow lazy fock.

The only ones who really understand are other plumbers. Even maintenance guys who have been through this before don't remember what it takes.










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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I love my ridgid camera and pipe finder. They have done a ton of good for me. That said 3k$ and 6k$ are ridiculous prices. I have to assume they wanted to make sure that their customers would take care of them so they wouldn't have a ton of warranty issues and if they did at least they would have the extra cash to fix them for free.


Ridgid stuff does have that guarantee and even the few items that technically don't we still expect ridgid to jump through hoops to fix. They make up for that cost later by charging a lot now.


We charge 250$ just for use of the camera. Not all customers are ok with that so they don't get the camera service. There are occasions I don't charge for it, almost always it's a lifelong customer who has given us all their business or a repeat customer I snake once or twice a year.








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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> For me it takes 2-4hrs. If I can just wheel the snake in and open a c.o. then usually around 2 hrs including travel time. Travel time averages a half hour here. But if I have to drain the system and bucket out sewage or pull a toilet then it takes closer to 4hrs billed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 hahaha YES!!!!


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

gear junkie said:


> Just curious....how long does your average mainline drain cleaning job take? From the time you're taking tools off the van to the time you're putting tools back in the van?


Probably 1.5-2.5 I would say average is 2 hours. Average sewer around here is probably around 60'-100' long and mostly 4"

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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

gear junkie said:


> Just curious....how long does your average mainline drain cleaning job take? From the time you're taking tools off the van to the time you're putting tools back in the van?


Part of the time it takes is because we have the beast of a Gorlitz sled style machine and have to haul it down basements almost every time and we take the drum off the machine and haul it down in parts because it's so heavy.

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The Dane said:


> Probably 1.5-2.5 I would say average is 2 hours. Average sewer around here is probably around 60'-100' long and mostly 4"
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk





One guy or two? I always work alone. Two guys will make it go faster if at least one of them knows what to do and is willing to order the other around so they are constantly helping and not just standing there.


How long does it take you to deal with say 40 gallons of sewage you may get out of a basement cleanout?






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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Like skoronesa said if you are pulling toilet or having issues draining lines first or something like that then it can run all the way up to 4 hours but most the time we can just wheel the machine and drum down the basement and then put it together and clean out from the clean out with out much trouble. So standard is 2 hours but yeah they can take longer. Sometimes we also have to put a second drum on because our cable is only 75'

I have never pulled back a really big root ball but I do normally get a couple hand full of roots back. 

Tell me I can run out 100' of flex shaft in a 4" line, blind with no camera and clear a normal root blockage and I would happily buy that machine to not break my back hauling in a heavy drum machine and to not have as much of a mess. But it seems what I'm hearing is that that is not what it's strong side is so a drum machine would be better. 

Maybe for smaller drain lines inside the house, but I'm being told that it can be hard to navigate a few fittings and a longer run so maybe I'll stick to the Ridgid k3800 I was planing on getting.

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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

The Dane said:


> Probably 1.5-2.5 I would say average is 2 hours. Average sewer around here is probably around 60'-100' long and mostly 4"
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


My average time is 30 minutes by myself with a machine you can pick up with 2 fingers. I'm not saying that to show off but there are better ways to do this.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

skoronesa said:


> I love my ridgid camera and pipe finder. They have done a ton of good for me. That said 3k$ and 6k$ are ridiculous prices. I have to assume they wanted to make sure that their customers would take care of them so they wouldn't have a ton of warranty issues and if they did at least they would have the extra cash to fix them for free.
> 
> .


The reason they cost so much is because ridgid cameras use alot of propiretary equipment and make hundreds of a part at a time instead of thousands. I went to have a simple part machined and the cost was 700.....If I had 30 made, the cost was only 1000.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> One guy or two? I always work alone. Two guys will make it go faster if at least one of them knows what to do and is willing to order the other around so they are constantly helping and not just standing there.
> 
> 
> How long does it take you to deal with say 40 gallons of sewage you may get out of a basement cleanout?
> ...


1 guy. And if I have to deal with to sewage from a wall clean out for a septic tank or something then it normally starts to run up to 4 hours but most times there is a clean out on a stack in the basement.

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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

gear junkie said:


> My average time is 30 minutes by myself with a machine you can pick up with 2 fingers. I'm not saying that to show off but there are better ways to do this.


I would love to do it in a better way and get it to take 30 minutes for a main sewer like you state. I would myself buy a general speed rooter 92 with 100' of 5/8" cable instead of the oversized Gorlitz I work with now. Now from what I have seen in your videos it looked like your 30 minutes is with an outside clean out. I need to get in to a basement then put drop cloths down and I need to clean up a little bit when I'm done.

I asked about the flex shaft but the impression I got here from you guys was that it can be a good tool but not a main machine on its own without drum machine or camera also in the arsenal.

If you can tell me that a flexshaft is all I need to open a regular clogged line with a few roots and I would not need any other machines then I'm all over it, but that does not seem to be the case. 

Like I have said, around here there is no drain cleaning only companies so people expect any plumber to be able to clean drains too. I am not looking to specialise in drain cleaning but simply to be able to deal with standard clogs to service customers. When I start a business if I start to tell people to call another plumber for drains then next time they have a plumbing issue they will call that guy and not me. That is no way to keep customers and business coming in.

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## rooterboy (Jul 16, 2009)

*Class and making your own equipment*



gear junkie said:


> I can talk about this here before other places but I'll be offering a class on how to clean drains by using new techniques. Just as an example, my k50, k60, clog dog are off the van and I'm now using my own custom designed equipment....cables and flex shaft, jetter, camera etc. Instead of selling the equipment, I'll just offer the class and you can make your own and if you still want to buy a commercially produced product, then at least you know what features are important.



Gear Junkie I am interested in this


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## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

rooterboy said:


> Gear Junkie I am interested in this


I am as well.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

The Dane said:


> I would love to do it in a better way and get it to take 30 minutes for a main sewer like you state. I would myself buy a general speed rooter 92 with 100' of 5/8" cable instead of the oversized Gorlitz I work with now. Now from what I have seen in your videos it looked like your 30 minutes is with an outside clean out. I need to get in to a basement then put drop cloths down and I need to clean up a little bit when I'm done.
> 
> I asked about the flex shaft but the impression I got here from you guys was that it can be a good tool but not a main machine on its own without drum machine or camera also in the arsenal.
> 
> ...


 That 30 min time is from an outside cleanout.....doing it from the roof is bit longer because I have to get the ladder and machine on the roof. I do however use a specialized drain cable machine that retails for roughly 1200 but you'll need to learn how to use.....part of the class I'll be offering on how to clean drains easier. Because of what you mentioned about not trying to specialize in draincleaning I'd actually recommend for you to skip the flex shaft thing altogether and just stick with cables.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

gear junkie said:


> That 30 min time is from an outside cleanout.....doing it from the roof is bit longer because I have to get the ladder and machine on the roof. I do however use a specialized drain cable machine that retails for roughly 1200 but you'll need to learn how to use.....part of the class I'll be offering on how to clean drains easier. Because of what you mentioned about not trying to specialize in draincleaning I'd actually recommend for you to skip the flex shaft thing altogether and just stick with cables.


That is the conclusion I got to too. I don't want to come off as a hack to you more specialised drain guys but I'm afraid that there simply is not a market around here for that kind of drain cleaning. The customers around here are not bad but they simply are not into paying extra to go the extra mile. The customers are not as such cheap but they are practical people that as long as the drain got opened up with the propped kind of machine for the job and it will last a long time then they don't need to pay extra for that perfection of a job. 

Had I been in a market where that is possible I definitely would have had flex shaft and a camera too in order to be fully equipped.

I think you will make a great class and I hope you get successful in this little new adventure of yours.

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## PhoenixRises (Jan 27, 2021)

The Dane said:


> Great info. I don't have a flex shaft and might never get one as I'm the typical punch a hole through and try your best to blindly clean out as much as you can. It is though still interesting to see and learn more about such things.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


My previous place of employment bought few Ridgid FlexShaft contraptions and I have mixed feelings about it. It’s light and easy to use, but it has limited application from my experience. It’s great on PVC with soft clogs, but when it comes to cast iron and anything more serious than a soft clog it’s a struggle. I ended up taking it off my truck and going back with Ridgid K-60 sewer machine. It’s heavy and it takes time to set up but it works every time.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

PhoenixRises said:


> My previous place of employment bought few Ridgid FlexShaft contraptions and I have mixed feelings about it. It’s light and easy to use, but it has limited application from my experience. It’s great on PVC with soft clogs, but when it comes to cast iron and anything more serious than a soft clog it’s a struggle. I ended up taking it off my truck and going back with Ridgid K-60 sewer machine. It’s heavy and it takes time to set up but it works every time.



I just fire up our Mongoose 184 jetter. 4000psi and 18gpm will make most problems go away.

And I agree on the flex shaft contraptions. Very limited devices.


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