# Retutn trip charge?



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Let say you go to a home to fix a leaky shower. You look at the shower and know what you need to fix it. You quote a price and as you go to your truck you realize you don't have the part, and they will have to be ordered at the shop. 

Do you charge for your time there already plus the charge to return, or keep the same price you quoted, even though this now means you are making 2 trips for 1 item? 

I used to go by the logic that if it was something that I should have had on my truck I dont charge. But if it's something I order, I add a little extra on the parts cost to makeup for some of my time, but I still end up losing a little bit. Any thoughts?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Depends on the situation. If I'm missing something that I should have on my truck, it's my bad and I won't charge to come back. If it's a special order part (like the Arrowhead stems you're talking about) I would charge. As soon as I realized I didn't have the parts, I'd tell them they are uncommon and will need to be sourced elsewhere and a charge to come back will apply.







Paul


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

We follow the same logic - if it's a stock item, no extra charge. I would be pi$$ed that the plumber did not restock his truck after using the last one.

Non-stock item, a fee is added for a second trip. Even with the added fee, the job is not as profitable when you need to make two trips. IMO, and we don't do this often enough, I feel we should count all the time to acquire part and return at regular rates and compare that to installing new (especially when we carry faucets on the trucks).

If we charged for the drive time to get the part and return, most definitely it would be more expensive than replacement.

Installed new cartridge in H.O. Price Phfister faucet. COST $295.00 
H.O. expression ! 
H.O. thinking = :furious:
H.O. says - That's highway robbery!
Plumber expression :whistling2:
Business owner expression :blink:

Billed with not charging for all the time.

Installed new cartridge in H.O. Price Phfister faucet. COST $175.00
H.O. expression 
H.O. thinking = :furious:
H.O. says - That's highway robbery!
Plumber expression :furious:
Business owner expression 

Both are lose/lose situations and most likely will result in losing customer.

Just this last week we were caught in scenario two. It plain SUCKS!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

voltatab said:


> Let say you go to a home to fix a leaky shower. You look at the shower and know what you need to fix it. You quote a price and as you go to your truck you realize you don't have the part, and they will have to be ordered at the shop....


Rule #4 for Quoting Prices in Advance: Know exactly what you have in stock on site.

Rule #5 for Quoting Prices in Advance: Always stand by your quote, win or lose. Your reputation costs much more than a tank of gas and a Moen 1225B.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

In my opinion u stick with ur quote that's how uget repeat customers then add the loss gradually on another repair btw u really not losing money u just lost a little profit as long as you don't go into negative u will be fine


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## drs (Jun 17, 2011)

How about if you as a licensed plumber has to compete with companies who employ handyman?

That is what happens here by me.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

revenge said:


> In my opinion u stick with ur quote that's how uget repeat customers then add the loss gradually on another repair btw u really not losing money u just lost a little profit as long as you don't go into negative u will be fine


So stick it to other customers to make up for your mistake? That's wrong. Honor your price and man-up. You'll remember next time to check stock prior to quoting.

You most certainly can be losing money and not just profit.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

No to the same customer on his next call depending if he went to negative


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> Rule #4 for Quoting Prices in Advance: Know exactly what you have in stock on site.
> 
> Rule #5 for Quoting Prices in Advance: Always stand by your quote, win or lose. Your reputation costs much more than a tank of gas and a Moen 1225B.


 
These are both great rules to follow in this case. I'd also add that it does pay to have an encyclopedic knowledge of plumbing fixture/parts/local availability/etc. There are obvious skills to service plumbing and there are the less obvious. It takes all of the skills to be a complete plumber and a lot of it is less hands on product knowledge that's built up over years and years. 

This one is done and over so I'm assuming your question is for the future. As they come, just consider them lessons that hopefully cost you little and pay you back big time on a later call.








Paul


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Well I see both points. 

If it's stock, then it's your fault you didnt know you had it. If it's an order item, then you figure it out before you quote, obviously. 

If you quote then realize that it's an order item, it's still somewhat your fault so keep your price(which I often do) 

however, a plumber will never know everything about everything and there are times when you assume it's one thing, only to find out it's something else. (that you don't have) If someone calls me out to fix a leaky shower, and upon arrival i see it's an item I don't recognize or have, it's tough to say, I'll have to order it, but you owe me for the trip out here today still. (even though I want to.) Ultimately, I markup the material cost $40-50 when I tell them it's a new part that's needed and it cost X. My labor stays the same but my markup at least makes me break even(no profit) for my time there on that day. 
I feel that's pretty fair for both parties IMO


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

voltatab said:


> ...My labor stays the same but my markup at least makes me break even(no profit) for my time there on that day.
> I feel that's pretty fair for both parties IMO


I know I'm taking this a bit out of context, but with all due respect..how is that fair to anybody?


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Haha no worries
well it's it's fair to me cause I didn't totally waste time at a house while finding out what I need. I could be somewhere else makin money. $40 isn't a profit for me, but at least covers my time There. 
And it's fair to them because it's not really any different from someone who charges just to give an estimate, which is which is essentially what I'm doing. I charge for my time to give them the quote, then charge for the work to be done. I realize that it's not as straightforward as that but thats how I rationalized it. 
You dont feel that, that is a decent middle ground? That's why I posted the Q cause I wanted to get your opinions, so I appreciate the responses


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

We must know our costs to quote a job. We all know what we stock on our trucks and in our shops. Give a quote stick to your quote. To charge for a return trip on items that are not considered stock items is perfectly fine to pass on to the consumer. 

A lot of plumbing companies and their plumbers have a difficult time with communication. They are not prepared to talk with the customer and give information before they give a solution and price. Typically a price is given then an explanation of that solution is not available for x amount of time for special ordering. The problem; the customer is thinking the plumbing issue can be fixed today and what they are paying you to do today, then they find out they must pay today and still have the problem. Created here are 2 objections and they are price and the problem is still a problem.

During your description time explain the reason it is a special order part to your client. Prepare your client for the response you are about to give and it will be much easier to get what you need to run a business,


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Other trades who come out to your home have no trouble saying "I need to collect X amount for today. Office will call & schedule when the part comes in."

Both instances, it was an appliance repairman.

Try to place a special order at Lowes without paying . . . it does not happen.

Try to order carpet without putting down a deposit.

To those who said you should honor your quote (we honor it as well), I have a question for you.

If you made a mistake in your favor, would you give the money back? My guess is most of you would and if that is the case, what is wrong with saying to the customer "I'm sorry, I made a mistake. That is not a stock item, therefore the cost will be XYZ."

Isn't that truly the right thing to do by both parties? As an honest person, I would feel bad taking advantage of that mistake. I would want to compensate the tradesman.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

voltatab said:


> Haha no worries
> well it's it's fair to me cause I didn't totally waste time at a house while finding out what I need. I could be somewhere else makin money. $40 isn't a profit for me, but at least covers my time There.
> And it's fair to them because it's not really any different from someone who charges just to give an estimate, which is which is essentially what I'm doing. I charge for my time to give them the quote, then charge for the work to be done. I realize that it's not as straightforward as that but thats how I rationalized it.
> You dont feel that, that is a decent middle ground? That's why I posted the Q cause I wanted to get your opinions, so I appreciate the responses


I get it.

To your original question....Nothing about your trials and tribulations matter to a typical consumer after you have quoted a dollar amount. That is the number they expect, period.

Ms. PC is not the typical consumer. She has the burden of providing service so she will have a soft spot in her heart for a service provider that most others would not. None of our rationalizations matter to most customers. You gave the client a number. You must stand by it.


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Repeat post


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Plbgbiz 
I appreciate your response. I guess it's a difference in opinion, however I see merit in your answer. I just feel that I'm not breaking trust in a customer if I communicate well enough to them what's happening. 

In fact just last week I replaced a fill valve and flapper for a customer. She called back and said that they are having a problem with the toilets draining capabilities now. I explained that it was not anything that I did nor was paid to service the drain as I did not snake anything. Ultimately she did not understand, cause I mentioned something about snaking the toilet in our conversation earlier that led her to believe that I had done so. She would NOT let it go. In the end I chalked it up to a breakdown in communication on my part and just augered the damn toilet for free. I still know that I was in the right and that i didnt scam her, but I apparently I misled or confused her so I said F-IT. just do it and be done with it. So I see both arguments, but I believe both have a place


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

It's a bummer when that happens Volt and I guess it happens to all of us on occasion. I liken it to telling the auto mechanic that your transmission never leaked until after he put that new battery in so it must be his fault.

Because of being somewhat biased to their own favor and lacking your level of mechanical savvy, many customers will selectively remember or forget the darnedest things. And you're right. Sometimes the only thing you can do is chalk it up and move on.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I had 1 with a Delta 1300 series shower valve this week. We get a call that it was dripping.

The HO said that he removed the handle and gave up and called us. We removed the bonnet nut with a min. effort and noticed that the body had been twisted to @ 7 to 1 a clock instead of 9-3.

When we made the repair and turned the water back on, one of the solder joints where leaking. I cut the valve out, and it had had a exorcist work on it.

He said it wasn't leaking before.

Yeah, right, all the tools are laying there. I informed him that it would have to have a new valve, make a 25 mi. one way trip to pick one up, then he ask "How much?" And wants me to pay for 1/2 of the replacement.

No frickin' way.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

I had customer call me yesterday. Replaced laundry tub faucet with new union brass a week ago. they went out of town came back and said water pressure was bad. I had checked before I left and blew out air. When I turned water off I said valves on both side of meter should be replaced they said yea yea yea. Water department came out and said same and that old galvanized pipe is full of crud and it wasnt your plumber's fault but that piping is wore out. If I had to go back out I would have charged a service call fee. I had already explained what might occur due to old pipes. Another scenario hookuped up washer dryer. same evening homeowners say they smell gas.  It tested out fine no leaks. They shut off gas to dryer. I'm thinking burn off smell ne dryer but don't want to make homeowners upset. I run over no gas leak burn off. I explain to homeowner that I should have charged them a service call, but didn't they felt bad, but I want referrals and repeat business. It was a bad business move on my part though. Live and learn:no:


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

We haven't yet, but we don't charge extra to order a stem/cartridge unless it is something (Sherle Wagner, etc..) we can't get from our normal suppliers or for the return trip.

We stock in the office over 500 different stems/cartridges and order weekly. So very seldom do we not have what we need in stock or readily avaialble.

If we aren't sure what an item is we have a charge to remove and identify the stem. Once it is identified we can then give a price for repair or replacement and will usually credit 1/2 or all of the investigative charge back.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> ...We stock in the office over 500 different stems/cartridges and order weekly...


OK, now I am officially jealous. :notworthy:


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> OK, now I am officially jealous. :notworthy:


The company started stocking repair parts back in the 60's when they moved out of new construction.

It was started mainly for the plumbers that worked here, since no one was stocking repair parts, but over the years as word got out they began selling repair parts to other plumbers, wholesalers and the general public.


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