# Need advice female apprentice



## Plmbrgrl (Feb 24, 2015)

Hi everyone, I worked with an Unrestricted Master Plumber for several years doing side jobs on afternoons and weekends and loved the work ! We did all kinds of jobs and even took on full house repipes when we both had other full time jobs. I did my fair share of digging trenches, crawling under homes or buildings, and working in all kinds of weather conditions. I was hit in an automobile accident, had to have back surgery and have been out of work now for over a year. I would like to go into plumbing full time and my neuro surgeon has given me the ok. The only thing I think I would have difficulty doing would be a lot of digging. I can carry tools, pipe, use power tools, crawl under houses, etc. I have great references from the man I worked for and other plumbers that helped us on big jobs, and other trades I worked around at job sites. I absolutely love this work and it's the only thing I want to do. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated . Thanks


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

go go go for it. the world is full of people that had to do it all. aaahhh oooo hhhhh, not really in first place when they are 6' 8" and 3 or 4 biscuits they just plain will not fit. the 3 or 4 biscuit will eliminate most crawl holes. 6' 8" will put the hurt on them with tiny lavs in tiny bathrooms. i can get drop right in with a 12"x12" access hole. i've hired woman for 40+ years. i always told them and i will tell you that there is always some dumb sob that will dig. sometimes it was me. mostly since i quit drinking. i need someone to read a tape and a level. if they tell you to dig just don't get in a hurry. always try to do the smart stuff. always act like the bosses tools are yours. take care of them. clean them up.

if that doesn't work, quit find a new boss. i did. me.

ice cream raz


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Did you ever get your apprenticeship while working with the guy? Have you talked to the MP you worked with to see if he needs someone full time?


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Pics of your work? A good boss subs the digs out anyway. Keep it up!


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

We need more women in the trade. A generation or so back, maybe the work was too hard for most women's but not today. I usually train three to four women a quarter in my apprentice classes. Most are doing white well. Congratulations and good luck.


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## Plmbrgrl (Feb 24, 2015)

Awesome ! Thank you all ! I just needed some advice. I want to be up front with an employer and let them know I'm willing to work just as long and hard as anyone else, just need to be careful on things like digging etc. No I didn't get any official apprencticeship before I got hurt but I do have lots of experience, references, and photos from jobs I've worked on. The MP I worked with is the main plumber at a large university and there aren't any job openings there at this time. Thank you again for the encouragement and I hope to be on the job soon !


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Females are needed in the trades!


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## gardenparty (Jan 29, 2015)

As a female journeyman I recognize that I do not have the strength of most of my male counterparts. I have different strengths that I bring to a job site and most of my co-workers recognize that. There are lots of different types of plumbing that do not require digging and as you get deeper into the trade you will probably find a branch that will suit your physical abilities. I have never regretted for one minute becoming a tradesman.


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## Plmbrgrl (Feb 24, 2015)

Thank you for the great support !


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

If your back is messed up and you are thinking digging will be bad or hurt it than STAY OUT of this trade. your health is worth more than being a plumber. so far digging is too much a part of the trade. I avoid working with a shovel as much as possible yet my shovel never has rust on it.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Plmbrgrl said:


> Thank you for the great support !


I don't think any of those posts were supportive. I don't think they would have given the same advice to any young man who said a lot of shoveling might hurt my back. Matter a fact he would have been tared and feathered and booted out of here.

digging isn't about being strong or a male but it is about being a plumber way to often I have found. 

Do yourself a favor and make sure to tell your future boss your situation.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

saysflushable said:


> I don't think any of those posts were supportive. I don't think they would have given the same advice to any young man who said a lot of shoveling might hurt my back. Matter a fact he would have been tared and feathered and booted out of here....


I agree. Reality check needed here. Woo Hoo, let's be inclusive and welcome females into a man's world. Fine by me but the advice given here has the potential of crippling the OP physically and crippling a plumbing business financially.

One of the best apprentices I have trained was a young woman. Cute as a button and tough as nails. One day she left a 6'4" JP crying with bloody shins when he wouldn't stop picking on her. She received a relatively minor (in the grand scheme of things) cut on her left ring finger from a recip saw that got in a bind. Cost me an extra $20K in worker's comp because the doctor said she would have a scar on that finger. Apparently that matters to a single woman thinking of wedding pictures in the future.

Plmbrgrl,
Girl, boy, man, or woman. Matters not to me. I also don't care much about your work release from the doctor. I would NEVER put you on a plumbing rig with back issues. Even if you are perfectly healthy, you pose a greater financial risk to the business. Starting with a previous back surgery? These folks trying to be nice to you are out of their ever-lovin' minds. 

Now about that "as long as I don't have to dig too much" statement. You have no business in the plumbing business with that mindset. For valid physical reasons or not, that alone makes you a no-go in my opinion.

I don't mind working with and training women in the trades. But not if they can't cut it. It's all fun and games in a trade school but in real life, there is no curve grading for feel-good hires.

And no, we do not need more women in the trades. What we need are more young people in general. If they happen to be women that can cut it that's fine but certainly not a priority. A Plumber's life is not easy for grown ass men. Women should not expect it to be any different for them. 

The 15' deep sewer in sandstone, 125lb boxes of pulling chain, and Bosch Brute jackhammer don't give a ratz hiney about gender.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Been in the trade since late 70"s. I have no issue on gender. Chauvinistic or not, nice to see women on the job. As long as they can cut it. I would not like being the man that had to put more in, if a woman can't lift as much, work as hard, expected to be given special treatment (not in your case), etc. I know 2 women in the film industry that build props, they can keep up with any man they work with.

Most non-union shops you would need to handle a shovel, jack hammer (as mentioned) heavy lifting, etc.

In a union shop these types of things would be more moderated and most likely the shovel may well go away.

Whatever you do, don't endanger your health or someone Else's health or safety.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

I agree with plmbgbiz! Even without the shoveling/digging aspect of plumbing, this trade is hard on the body, especially the back! Essentially, what yur looking for plmbrgrl, is a Cush parts runner position. 

Route #1) you get in with a union shop, who specialized in heavy commercial projects. Maybe, just maybe, you "eventually" land the top out or finish portion. This still includes moving and setting heavy fixtures (moving and setting toilets can be hard on the back). But your forgetting that this union job requires 4 years of FNG status and that includes, digging, jackhammering, concrete cutting and removal, heavy wheelbarrow maneuvering. Then eventually you make it through this, now yur a real plumber running bigger (and heavier pipe) overhead and around the job site, drilling anchor holes by the hundreds overhead and bent over (hard on the back). Bugger steel pipe requires heavier torque values, and running no hub cast iron waste ain't no walk in the park. 

Now lets look at the private service side. Your asking to be a helper essentially. On the service side, you have constant digging. I don't see you being able to manhandle a spartan 1065 into a basement with a previous back injury. Water heater removal and replacement? Nope, not for long anyway! Remodels? Well again, jackhammering, digging and wheelbarrowing. Essentially, what your asking for is to jump right into the position that is typically reserved for the seasoned veterans who have put they're time (and backs) into this field. Then the scheduling dilemma you would place on the company by not being able to do certain jobs...I just dot think that would fly. As a plumber, one needs I able to handle and attack all aspects of what the job requires. 

I spent 12 years with my last company, I started at the bottom and worked my way to the top. I ran all field work, however, I had to do field work as well. Due to ownership changes and stupid hiring decisions based on personal associations, I never made the management position. I was great at beig a service plumber, and troubleshooting. When I blew out my knee, I was told I'd be used in a more management role. Well that didn't last long, I soon realized that if you can't go out and make money with your body, and the position of salesperson or consultant is already taken up...you will literally be kicked to the curb maybe softly or gently but the end result is the same. "You've had a good run, maybe it's time to pursue other avenues" yea I was told this. So be prepared. 

Believe me, I'm not trying to come off as mesogenistic, I know plenty of rough and tough cowgirls (my wife is one of them) who have no problem working in heavy duty work environments. I'm just telling you, from a guy who's already had 4 knee surgeries, and who back seems to get a little more stiff by the week, I don't see this profession being for you. Where are the job offers from all the other companies who know about yur work? You stated they can provide work references! 

I would seriously consider consulting with garden party! I believe she's a journeyman plumber. I don't know what her tylical work conditions are but maybe she can help you along the way. Otherwise, I think you need to look at plumbing form a different angle.


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## gardenparty (Jan 29, 2015)

Shoot'N'Plumber - my typical work conditions now are not what I started with. I spent 4 1/2 years doing straight up field work, 84 hours a week in Northern Alberta under terrible weather conditions. It was dirty, heavy work that was brutal on the knees, crawling under trailers dragging all the pipe and fittings with me to set up work for the journeyman. However the job did not require much digging. I am very fortunate that I work with a great crew (mixed carpenters, electricians, labourers and plumbers) and could get help when I needed it to do things like move water heaters, pretty much everything else I could move on my own or with a piece of machinery. I do not have the physical strength of a man that is my reality, I am 130 pounds with full gear on but I can run the type of plumbing that I do as fast as any of the men on my crew.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

I think I have a solution, which is to create a niche for yourself.
I can find guys all day long who can thread pipe and turn a wrench, but almost none who can:
-figure out why the boiler will not turn on
-program a Tekmar
-wire a boiler
I made money by being one of few guys prequalified to work in public schools who can install and troubleshoot sprinkler fire alarm devices.
Pick a niche field:
-Fire pumps and water boosters
-Solar heating
-Radiant heating
-Dry chemical fire sprinkler systems

You can also use your experience and get educated and certified to be an estimator. 
Along those lines, you can learn CAD and get yourself a great job doing shop drawings and as builts.
There are endless opportunities for someone with ambition and a brain.


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## Plmbrgrl (Feb 24, 2015)

Thankyou everyone. I understand the hard intense labor and everything required on the job. When I was working, I was knocking out brick foundations to get access to pipes under houses, using jackhammers, all large power tools, crawling in confined space under buildings and hanging gas lines, pipe etc, taking out toilets, tubs, sinks, water heaters, working on water mains, hauling endless wheelbarrow loads, laid french drains, ran a trencher, bobcat. I can also drive a forklift. (I've done sandblasting work on auto parts and bodies and built fiberglass boats from scratch.) I don't want anyone to work harder than I do. I never missed one job, was always the first one there and last to leave, I wanted it so much ! I read your posts and I hear you. Your right about it not being fair for someone else to have to lift or dig something on a job when it should be my responsibility. I will definitely be honest with anyone that considers hiring me and will look into finding a niche ( thanks for the suggestion ) that I could still do and use the skills I already have. I would really like the chance to work in the field I love somehow.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Don't define yourself as the woman that does plumbing....define yourself as a plumber.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

If digging is a problem, service plumbing might be a better fit. Not that you'll never come across it, just not nearly as much.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

I went to trade school with a girl who would out dig, pipe,and get material better than any of the guys. That being said with your situation maybe you could tell the potential employer about and vollenteer to try out the shop for a week or two to see if you are able to handle the scope of work they will require from you. That being said for the most part in your first year you are going to be mainly running to get parts and or fittings, and learning where they can and can't be used.
Welcome as well, there is lots of usefull information on here.


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

newyorkcity said:


> I think I have a solution, which is to create a niche for yourself.
> I can find guys all day long who can thread pipe and turn a wrench, but almost none who can:
> -figure out why the boiler will not turn on
> -program a Tekmar
> ...


Exactly 
Also, just do service work, 99% of service calls do not involve digging, it involves 80% customer service and 20% plumbing


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

plumbers, come in all shapes and sizes ... it's a thinking persons game...no matter what shape I'm in I still can't move everything. but I got electrical , and a/c.. and that keeps me around! study everthing u can..
lol.. good luck the smarter you are, the luckier you get


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I am surprised at the idea that service shops are the place to be to avoid too much digging by the apprentice. That's not the way I remember it, nor those that have apprenticed under me remember it. Construction or service, I have NEVER seen a plumbing truck without a shovel.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

never mind


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

In Los Angeles at a service shop you'll rarely have to dig more than 1 to 2 feet to find a water or gas line and 3 feet to find the sewer. I do pipe lining and don't have to do anymore digging whatsoever if there is at least a 3" Cleanout.
I carry shovels on both my trucks but they're looking pretty clean these days.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

The big job in the service field is moving around sewer and drain equipment
up and down basement steps or on roofs in sunny climes,
also 100 gal commercial water heaters 

but if you can find that niche job you will do alright


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

The grouchy old fart part of me says "no digging, no apprenticeship! ". The more thoughtful humane part of me says "where there is a will there is a way!"
The great thing I notice from your posts is that you have a passion for this work. That is a rare thing. I would take one person with a strong will and some passion for the work, over four guys who can swing a pick and kick a shovel all day.
Actually I can't find either of those people now. Man or woman. The best advise I could give you is to do what inspires you. Everyone else's opinions are piss in the wind when you have a strong drive to do something. Go forth and plumb.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

pdxplumber said:


> The grouchy old fart part of me says "no digging, no apprenticeship! ". The more thoughtful humane part of me says "where there is a will there is a way!"
> The great thing I notice from your posts is that you have a passion for this work. That is a rare thing. I would take one person with a strong will and some passion for the work, over four guys who can swing a pick and kick a shovel all day.
> Actually I can't find either of those people now. Man or woman. The best advise I could give you is to do what inspires you. Everyone else's opinions are piss in the wind when you have a strong drive to do something. Go forth and plumb.


I actually think that it's awesome that she's trying to find a way to work even though she has had a back injury. Most people in this day in age would have the aditude that well I can't work now so I'll sit home and collect cheques. Like you said I'm sure she will find a way to be an asset to a plumbing company.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

....


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

AWWGH said:


> ....



Love that movie, filmed not to far from me


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I just re-read this thread. I hope the OP appreciates the wealth of insight offered in the different opinions.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> I am surprised at the idea that service shops are the place to be to avoid too much digging by the apprentice. That's not the way I remember it, nor those that have apprenticed under me remember it. Construction or service, I have NEVER seen a plumbing truck without a shovel.
> View attachment 42337












I used to work with apprentices that would deliberately break the shovel handles to get out of digging. The job foreman had more shovels in the work trailer. He kept plenty on hand........:laughing:


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

What's a cheque?


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

jmc12185 said:


> What's a cheque?


You silly Sally...it's a collision in hockey!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> What's a cheque?


The word originates from Canada. The land that invented basketball for all the girls that couldn't play hockey.


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## Plmbrgrl (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks guys ! Yes I want to work ! Everyone used to call me a work-a-holic. I started every day at 4am going to my full time job and then not getting home til 9-10 pm from my plumbing job(s). And I worked almost every Sat and Sunday for years. I had a goal to be a plumber and was busting my butt to get there. Then I got hit by someone having an epileptic seizure . I was devastated when the accident happened because I was afraid it took away everything I had worked for. I had to have a ten hour back surgery, week in the hospital, 52 staples, two rods and six screws, and one year of physical therapy. I am proud of how hard I've worked to physically get back out there and do something, whatever job that ends up being. I can't tell you how much I appreciate everyones thoughts and advice !


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## Plmbrgrl (Feb 24, 2015)

I want to reassure everyone that I will let any employer know about my back surg. And I am not looking for sympathy or an easy job. I won't ever be a worker's comp issue for anyone, that's not who I am. I've already had the chance to sue someone for everything they had and chose not to (from this accident). Maybe I can find a small plumbing shop that needs a helper that will let me work on a trial basis and see how it goes from there. I sure miss being part of a team, working hard, having fun, and driving home covered in mud !


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Plmbrgrl said:


> ...Maybe I can find a small plumbing shop that needs a helper that will let me work on a trial basis and see how it goes from there. I sure miss being part of a team, working hard, having fun, and driving home covered in mud !


You may well be the exception to the "Everyone-Must-Dig" rule. If you can deliver on your words, any Plumbing Business Operator would be damn proud to have you on their team and work with you. 

Good luck Lil' Sister. 

Just remember....Careers are not a lottery or roulette wheel. In business, Lady Luck always favors the well prepared.


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## Plmbrgrl (Feb 24, 2015)

Thank you, plbgbiz ! You have no idea how much that means to me ! Hi- five to each and every one of you out there plumbing and working hard !


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## Johnny Canuck (Feb 24, 2015)

Good for you. Develop a thick skin - you'll hear lots of comments. . My daughter is a plumbing apprentice but got out of it. She worked harder than any of us and everyone teased her BUT respected her. She a small girl but was slugging up to 4" BI pipe! Then they moved her to a sight where I wasn't around to keep an eye on her and the comments got disrespectful and threatening. Long story short she feared for her safety and didn't want to be a whistle blower she she quit and started a house cleaning business and has never been happier. I was hoping they would move me to the sight so I could "discuss" the issue with those involved but it never happened. I quit shortly after and am now starting my own business. I'm hoping she'll reconsider the trade and work for me, but her being happy is more important.


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## gardenparty (Jan 29, 2015)

John TPS - you don't know the half of it for comments. You have to have a very thick skin as a female tradesperson. When I started in the patch in Alberta 90 percent of the time I was the only female tradesperson on site living and working with hundreds of men. I was lucky and my crew watched my back, kept me safe and helped me in the trade but I have seen a lot of women leave unfortunately.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Same as any advise that I would give to a male. Don't chew your nails, lift with your legs.


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

Get your license it gives you opportunity so you dont HAVE TO dig and or...learn to weld.


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