# Lead and oakum....



## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

6" combo prefabbed on the ground, some 3" roof heads. Pack and pour.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Little shy on hangers, aren't you?


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> Little shy on hangers, aren't you?


Every 10 feet. Per code.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Flyout95 said:


> Every 10 feet. Per code.


890.930 (b)


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

The hangers are supposed to be with in 18" of the joints, *Section 890.930 Horizontal Piping*


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> The hangers are supposed to be with in 18" of the joints, Section 890.930 Horizontal Piping


10 foot lengths.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Cast Iron Soil Pipe. Where joints occur, suspended cast iron pipe shall be supported within *18 inches of each hub or joint* and at not more than 5 foot intervals; however, pipe exceeding 5 feet in length may be supported at not more than 10 foot intervals. 
That means a hanger within 18" of each joint, then no more than 10' to the next one.
Unless I am not seeing hangers at the combo, but there should be three hangers there. I would flunk it if it was in my town.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Flyout95 said:


> 10 foot lengths.


You don't need a hanger on each side of the joint, just every 10 feet, as explained by the inspector of this municipality.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Flyout95 said:


> You don't need a hanger on each side of the joint, just every 10 feet, as explained by the inspector of this municipality.


I interpret that differently, because it says every hub, then no more than 10'. That is a lot of weight to be carried if that ever backs up.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> Cast Iron Soil Pipe. Where joints occur, suspended cast iron pipe shall be supported within 18 inches of each hub or joint and at not more than 5 foot intervals; however, pipe exceeding 5 feet in length may be supported at not more than 10 foot intervals. That means a hanger within 18" of each joint, then no more than 10' to the next one. Unless I am not seeing hangers at the combo, but there should be three hangers there. I would flunk it if it was in my town.


I see what you are saying, if it was no hub that's how I would do it. But with lead, one hanger within 18 inches of the joint, every 10 feet was approved.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Flyout95 said:


> I see what you are saying, if it was no hub that's how I would do it. But with lead, one hanger within 18 inches of the joint, every 10 feet was approved.


was this spec'ed or design/build?


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> was this spec'ed or design/build?


The pipe sizes were spec'ed,
And elevations. 
But some aspects are D/B. 

They have yet to decide where we tie into the existing storm.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Okay, I understand hangers are money, but I interpret that differently, and we have always had to support joints.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> Okay, I understand hangers are money, but I interpret that differently, and we have always had to support joints.


I understand, last shop I was with we always used hangers on every joint, with no hub I still do, but with lead and oakum, and a new shop... And an inspector who interprets the code this way we went with it.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

A lot of the buildings I been in has hangers at each poured joint and no more than 10 foot apart.

What town was this job done in?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

That is a lot of weight not being supported.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Wow, I had to read through some of your past posts because I had no idea people still used lead and oakum. I see you still do up there. Why does Chicago still use it instead of no hubs or Ty-seals for CI? It seems really inefficient and out dated but I am sure there is a good reason.


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## matkg (Mar 3, 2013)

Job from yesterday 2 hangers on every 10 foot length


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Wow, I had to read through some of your past posts because I had no idea people still used lead and oakum. I see you still do up there. Why does Chicago still use it instead of no hubs or Ty-seals for CI? It seems really inefficient and out dated but I am sure there is a good reason.


Because its State of Chicago and along with State of Illinois with some most backassward outdated code.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Sometimes cast iron is good because of ambient temps, but I think there is thermo-plastics that solve that issue.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

Depending on beam/bar joist spacing I usually run 2 hangers on a 10'er


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

I have always done 2-6-4-6 and so on. 2' past first joint than 6' from that hanger than 4' which would be 2' onto next section. Always put hangers up first and slide pipe right through.


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I wouldn't hang a piece of cast iron without 2 hangers on it unless its a very short piece between 2 pipes already supported by 2 hangers. And certainly not if its as high as the pipe as appears in the pics. It also wouldn't matter to me if the inspector approved it or not, IMO it's a matter of safety. 

However I do understand being at a new shop and trying to do what they say.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

So I take it no one here can answer the question as to why Chicago still requires lead and oakum for connecting CI? Aside from RJs response with Illinois and Chicago being assbackwards, that is. Unless that is the reason and the board hasn't decided to update their standards.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Pure politics, my friend. I don't know if the code officials, plumbers local or anyone else can give you a decent answer. However, in an unsprinkled building, the fireman hate PVC, because it has burned and firemen have been injured by flaming globs of dripping PVC.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> So I take it no one here can answer the question as to why Chicago still requires lead and oakum for connecting CI? Aside from RJs response with Illinois and Chicago being assbackwards, that is. Unless that is the reason and the board hasn't decided to update their standards.


it is pure tradition and politics there has been viable options for years if not decades. PVC is not a option in a building with open plenum return but a duct return it will work. A un sprinkled building should be less than 5000 square feet,so just kick the windows in and blast away.lol


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> Pure politics, my friend. I don't know if the code officials, plumbers local or anyone else can give you a decent answer. However, in an unsprinkled building, the fireman hate PVC, because it has burned and firemen have been injured by flaming globs of dripping PVC.


I understand the reason for using CI for fire retardant reasons, which is common here in Houston, but its the use of lead and oakum to connect it I don't get. The use of no-hubs or hub gaskets makes more sense, IMO, but I get it that I probably won't get a decent answer. 

Oh well, I guess they figure lead and oakum is less likely to melt as quickly as rubber gaskets or no-hubs in the event of a fire. I was just shocked lead and oakum is still in use in 2013. I would have thought that builders would have lobbied to change that rule. 

In Texas the only place lead is used still is for roof jacks and on PVC to lead transitional fittings for brass toilet flanges. I could be wrong, though. I have had to melt out a lot of lead in CI hubs in the past and have used Ty-seal gaskets in place of it to connect the PVC back to the CI for repairs...which is a real PITA without that pipe tool to pull the pipe into the gasket. 

Anyhow, I learned something new. Thanks for the explanation.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Chicago has many, many old unsprinkled skyscrapers. The developers have the aldermen in their pockets, and don't have to put in sprinkler systems, so that becomes an excuse to not allow PVC.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> Chicago has many, many old unsprinkled skyscrapers. The developers have the aldermen in their pockets, and don't have to put in sprinkler systems, so that becomes an excuse to not allow PVC.


Hmm. Good to know. Gotta love corrupt city officials. Plenty of it here in Houston, too.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Hangers should be put where you think they should be, not just by code. The more the better


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Hangers should be put where you think they should be, not just by code. The more the better


I agree, if it wasn't my first week with this shop I'd do it my way.


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> So I take it no one here can answer the question as to why Chicago still requires lead and oakum for connecting CI? Aside from RJs response with Illinois and Chicago being assbackwards, that is. Unless that is the reason and the board hasn't decided to update their standards.



i would guess because it lasts longer than a piece of rubber...

and also if the building caught fire, would you want to be a firefighter working underneath pieces of cast iron put together with a piece of rubber?

you'd never know if the clevis hangers are spaced properly..


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

iantheplumber said:


> i would guess because it lasts longer than a piece of rubber...
> 
> and also if the building caught fire, would you want to be a firefighter working underneath pieces of cast iron put together with a piece of rubber?
> 
> you'd never know if the clevis hangers are spaced properly..


 
A piece of rubber with a metal band around it.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

iantheplumber said:


> i would guess because it lasts longer than a piece of rubber...
> 
> and also if the building caught fire, would you want to be a firefighter working underneath pieces of cast iron put together with a piece of rubber?
> 
> you'd never know if the clevis hangers are spaced properly..


If the building is buring that bad... smart firefighters will stay out of it instead of being a hero.


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> If the building is buring that bad... smart firefighters will stay out of it instead of being a hero.



so if kids are stuck in the building, the firefighters should just say "screw them im not going to be a hero?"


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

besides the fire issues...

the fact that cast and lead joints are required in chicago is probably a good thing for the plumbing trade... it keeps plumbing a skilled trade..

i was quite disappointed when they removed the lead joint from the test in indiana..

they replaced it with a pvc tee project and a no-hub project...

hell they have even made the test open book...

seems to me they are just opening the trade up for every idiot to call themselves skilled..


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

wyrickmech said:


> PVC is not a option in a building with open plenum return but a duct return it will work.


I do believe this is the case in just about every jurisdiction in the US no?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> I do believe this is the case in just about every jurisdiction in the US no?


 yes I do believe you are correct it comes under NFPA fire code regulations. Cast iron is not a bad product as long as it has a proper amount of hangers. I don't know how many times I have had to growl at a crew about each piece needs two hangers. Hub and spigot only requires one at the hub I believe or eight feet


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