# getting mad at the inexperienced



## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

Today I saw a freshly licensed plumber get in trouble for not knowing something, good plumber and good guy, but he didn't know something about a hydronic system and all I hear is the foreman yell "you should be embarrassed. I thought you were a licensed plumber" 

With such a diverse trade, don't you think that's unfair? How can one possibly know everything in a matter of 5 years
How many of you see that?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Ptturner91 said:


> Today I saw a freshly licensed plumber get in trouble for not knowing something, good plumber and good guy, but he didn't know something about a hydronic system and all I hear is the foreman yell "you should be embarrassed. I thought you were a licensed plumber"
> 
> With such a diverse trade, don't you think that's unfair? How can one possibly know everything in a matter of 5 years
> How many of you see that?


All depends who his teachers... I was the worst student, asking too many questions..


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## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> All depends who his teachers... I was the worst student, asking too many questions..


I was too haha, or "do you know how to do this" they would ask and I'd say yes but I really didn't have a clue but I figured it out, but I still don't know everything and I never will, so to yell at someone like that I just don't understand the old school guys


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Ptturner91 said:


> I was too haha, or "do you know how to do this" they would ask and I'd say yes but I really didn't have a clue but I figured it out, but I still don't know everything and I never will, so to yell at someone like that I just don't understand the old school guys


 Had new guy to ride with me... asking him what his background etc.. did a rough in ... what a fook up.. asked him again what's his pvc piping background... end of the day, asked my cousin that interviewed him... cousin told me he said he had a lot of pvc experince.. replied " yeah, he did! Fookin central vaccum system!" New guy been under scruitcy ever since..


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Some guys push hard because they want you to learn and be the best you can be,,, which I get.

Then there are others, who have such low self esteem or low self worth and major insecurity issues that they only feel good about them selves by bashing others. 

We've all seen the guy who acts like his stuff does'nt stink, and then trips over his own feet, but acts like nothing happened. I work with a few right now.

This of course is just my own opinion.

Dr Phil:jester::laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

89plumbum said:


> Some guys push hard because they want you to learn and be the best you can be,,, which I get.
> 
> Then there are others, who have such low self esteem or low self worth and major insecurity issues that they only feel good about them selves by bashing others.
> 
> ...


 

That is a very good opinion.... 

I have been around enough a-holes in my life to know that you cant know it all... 

and if you think you know it all, then you will have a whole bunch of people trying their best to drag you down....

I have worked for bosses that did not know anything more than how to manage an office... but they were successful because they were good at the management
end of the business.....

it all depends on atitude and personality...

if you cant ask a question about something you dont know on a job then it reflects more on the others than on you ...


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

The newbie was probably running his mouth about how great he was since he got his license like a lot of new guys do. Then when the foreman saw a shot to throw it back in his face he took it. 
A couple years ago I had a guy that just turned out bragging about how he was the greatest plumber ever to plumb and he knew everything there was to know about the trade when in reality all he did was hang copper and install pre fab through his whole apprenticeship. 
I laughed at him and told him he didn't know a fawkin thing and now that he got his license he could start to learn to be a plumber. He didn't like that... It didn't matter anyways because as soon as he figured out he needed to use his brain and actually think about the job instead of just taking direction he quit and went back to work on his family's farm or something. Good riddance.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I certainly do not know everything in plumbing that it to know. That is why I hire or work with others. They can do the things I do not know or can teach me. I am 57 and have been in the plumbing trades since 1972.

Y'all can call me flapper boy that does not phase me. You can also ride with and see that I am not dirty or smelly. The major difference is I am and will be the most productive person in any company. I am a problem solver pure and simple. I do not want to work on high rises nor do I want to installed chiller towers. Guess what I will not be doing? The last time I worked on a boiler was in 1993 think I could work on a boiler today? Absolutely not but then again why w:no:uld I waste my time educating myself on boilers that I have not worked on in over 20 years? That is like teaching a turtle to fly.:thumbup:


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

I hate that people are looking for reasons to support the foreman. 


Guys who run work- if you can't speak to people with respect, even idiots, don't run work.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

*Abraham Lincoln was a Liar*



Ptturner91 said:


> Today I saw a freshly licensed plumber<snip>
> 
> When he said all men [plumbers]are created equal. It's conceivable that a person born in 1990 is now old enough to have served his or her trade as an apprentice and now is a licensed plumber. Now lets look at the materials and the methods in use since 1990. Now as a licensed plumber that plumber goes into business gets a phone and advertises he/she is a licensed plumber. Fine but the person that calls, lives in a house built in 1922.
> 
> ...


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Live and learn !! I say. And hope to see that a- hole at a bar after work hours and see what he has to say. Lol


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

Flyout95 said:


> I hate that people are looking for reasons to support the foreman.
> 
> 
> Guys who run work- if you can't speak to people with respect, even idiots, don't run work.


I agree with this statement 100%......


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Ptturner91 said:


> Today I saw a freshly licensed plumber get in trouble for not knowing something, good plumber and good guy, but he didn't know something about a hydronic system and all I hear is the foreman yell "you should be embarrassed. I thought you were a licensed plumber"
> 
> With such a diverse trade, don't you think that's unfair? How can one possibly know everything in a matter of 5 years
> How many of you see that?












Doctors specialize. There isn't a doctor who will treat the whole human body. 

In my opinion, no one plumber can know everything in this trade. Plumbing is a vast trade, so that's why some guys are 'niche' plumbers. They specialize in one area, not {50}!


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## Plumber Mark (Mar 14, 2014)

Sounds like the foreman is a a!! I can see a journeyman not knowing squat about hydronics. Boilers fall under the mechanical code and last I checked plumbing covers drain waste and vent piping along with water distribution piping. I've worked with plumbers in the past that just did one task like water pipe and never set a toilet. I'm glad I got a variety along the way so I experienced more situations than some journeymen I know. Everyday is a new learning experience, you will always run into things you have never seen, that's what challenges us and keeps us going.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Arielattacks said:


> Just a reminder you can work for roto rooter your whole apprentice career and still get a license. Tell me the trade is not flawed.


 Ya back here again without doing proper introduction??


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Arielattacks said:


> Its just the nature of the trade. Just a bunch of blue collar workers with a specialized trade. No real education like knowing how to read or be a decent human being. A lot of the old school guys are alcoholics divorced and miserable as hell. There only outlet is to make others feel inadequate. Its a self esteem issue. But that's why we are men and do the work that needs to be done. Do your job be the best you can love what you do and don't give a crap what anybody thinks. Life is short enjoy your trade and say F it. Just do it right. Trust me there were tunes I was ready to let my fists fly very many times


Ya gonna be attack without introduction


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

I say what come around goes around. You're all defending the newbie like he's totally innocent. How do you know he didn't have it coming? 
Jeez. I've worked with and learned from guys that would make some of you cry and run to the house like little girls.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Are we allowed to have 2 or more accounts here??


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Arielattacks said:


> Damn just realize this is a different account. I have an intro as arie stratus sorry


Here I am. Sorry that was some random account I created back in the day.


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

rjbphd said:


> Are we allowed to have 2 or more accounts here??


Lol you can create a hundred accounts how can anybody possibly monitor that. Its cyber world


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

arie stratus said:


> Lol you can create a hundred accounts how can anybody possibly monitor that. Its cyber world


You got that right, its the cyber world but why more than one account... something to hide?


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Gargalaxy said:


> You got that right, its the cyber world but why more than one account... something to hide?


Lol no. Well maybe some one might find out I wanted to be an airplane pilot and travel the world with all types of hot flight attendants. Better then running a machine in human crap.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Rando said:


> I say what come around goes around. You're all defending the newbie like he's totally innocent. How do you know he didn't have it coming? Jeez. I've worked with and learned from guys that would make some of you cry and run to the house like little girls.


No boss should ever yell unless someone is in danger. It's not a matter of whether or not it's deserved... If you can't control your anger, drag up, move on. NO ONE deserves to be yelled at. Counsel your employees offline, one on one. 

I'm 30, spent 8 years in the military, 4 years as an NCO and managed a detail shop full of privileged teens. I never raised my voice to discipline some once. I continually had the most motivated team/squad and at the shop always ran the most profitable shift. Employees want to work for people who respect them. Since being in the trade, I've only had a few opportunities to run crews, and most of the time it's guys with double my experience, but it worked because I respected them, and appreciated them for their knowledge. Guys will work for an ******* for the check at the end of the week, they'll excel for a respectable boss for the same check. 

My 2¢


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Flyout95 said:


> No boss should ever yell unless someone is in danger. It's not a matter of whether or not it's deserved... If you can't control your anger, drag up, move on. NO ONE deserves to be yelled at. Counsel your employees offline, one on one.
> 
> I'm 30, spent 8 years in the military, 4 years as an NCO and managed a detail shop full of privileged teens. I never raised my voice to discipline some once. I continually had the most motivated team/squad and at the shop always ran the most profitable shift. Employees want to work for people who respect them. Since being in the trade, I've only had a few opportunities to run crews, and most of the time it's guys with double my experience, but it worked because I respected them, and appreciated them for their knowledge. Guys will work for an ******* for the check at the end of the week, they'll excel for a respectable boss for the same check.
> 
> My 2¢


Applause mi amigo


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## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

The trade is flawed, in toronto there is a high rise boom going on, they pay incredible wages, but it's like an assembly line, one guy does sleeving, one does water lines, one guy cuts cast etc... 
So they get there license and they have never soldered or whatever, when the high rise boom ends there are going to be a lot of "plumbers" expecting there wages for not knowing much


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Ptturner91 said:


> The trade is flawed, in toronto there is a high rise boom going on, they pay incredible wages, but it's like an assembly line, one guy does sleeving, one does water lines, one guy cuts cast etc...
> So they get there license and they have never soldered or whatever, when the high rise boom ends there are going to be a lot of "plumbers" expecting there wages for not knowing much


Piecework plumbers.. same as the other threads goes.. new construstion vs repair/service plumbers


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Arielattacks said:


> Its just the nature of the trade. Just a bunch of blue collar workers with a specialized trade. No real education like knowing how to read or be a decent human being. A lot of the old school guys are alcoholics divorced and miserable as hell. There only outlet is to make others feel inadequate. Its a self esteem issue. But that's why we are men and do the work that needs to be done. Do your job be the best you can love what you do and don't give a crap what anybody thinks. Life is short enjoy your trade and say F it. Just do it right. Trust me there were tunes I was ready to let my fists fly very many times


What trade are you working in?? I'm not working around a bunch of knuckle dragging alcoholic Neanderthals that can't write. Among the six people at our shop, there are two college degrees and three masters licenses.


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Letterrip said:


> What trade are you working in?? I'm not working around a bunch of knuckle dragging alcoholic Neanderthals that can't write. Among the six people at our shop, there are two college degrees and three masters licenses.


I worked with so many companies, union and non union and most are knuckleheads. You must be in a bubble or something. Lol


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

arie stratus said:


> I worked with so many companies, union and non union and most are knuckleheads. You must be in a bubble or something. Lol


I guess when you are the self proclaimed god of Texas, everyone else truly does look petty and small.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

arie stratus said:


> I worked with so many companies, union and non union and most are knuckleheads. You must be in a bubble or something. Lol


They say if everyone around you is knucklehead... You're probably the knucklehead to everyone else.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Letterrip said:


> What trade are you working in?? I'm not working around a bunch of knuckle dragging alcoholic Neanderthals that can't write. Among the six people at our shop, there are two college degrees and three masters licenses.


I learned with the very old school, 2 master plumbers. 1st one over 50 years in the trade and the second one, master for 41 years (beautiful persons both). Maybe I'm old school too.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Gargalaxy said:


> I learned with the very old school, 2 master plumbers. 1st one over 50 years in the trade and the second one, master for 41 years (beautiful persons both). Maybe I'm old school too.


So ya a folding ruler guy???


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Flyout95 said:


> They say if everyone around you is knucklehead... You're probably the knucklehead to everyone else.


I am sometimes Lol. Don't get sensitive on me fellas I might just 
Yell at you and crush your dreams and confidence. See I can be a good foreman


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

rjbphd said:


> So ya a folding ruler guy???


And he marks his hangers with an actual plumb Bob and not a laser plumb bob. Lol


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> So ya a folding ruler guy???


Not really but believed or not I got one (old present). I use digital tape measure lol.


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

Flyout95 said:


> No boss should ever yell unless someone is in danger. It's not a matter of whether or not it's deserved... If you can't control your anger, drag up, move on. NO ONE deserves to be yelled at. Counsel your employees offline, one on one.
> 
> I'm 30, spent 8 years in the military, 4 years as an NCO and managed a detail shop full of privileged teens. I never raised my voice to discipline some once. I continually had the most motivated team/squad and at the shop always ran the most profitable shift. Employees want to work for people who respect them. Since being in the trade, I've only had a few opportunities to run crews, and most of the time it's guys with double my experience, but it worked because I respected them, and appreciated them for their knowledge. Guys will work for an ******* for the check at the end of the week, they'll excel for a respectable boss for the same check.
> 
> My 2¢


I'm 51. was active duty Marines in the early 80's, I've been in this trade almost every day of my life since I was about 10 years old. Including while on active duty, when I came home on leave I went and worked with Dad almost every day. I learned my first bit of people management in NCO school in the Corps. I never raise my voice I don't need to. If need be I can convey any thing I need to with a simple raise of an eyebrow or ask a question that makes the person stop and think about what an idiot they are being. Sometimes if a know it all needs some learning I will let them do it their way as long as it's not going to cost to much and then make them change their fawk up so it's right. I run some of our toughest jobs with the smallest crews and tightest schedules and I have guys begging to come work with me because I treat every one the way I want to be treated and I always get my incentive money and I share it with my guys after the project. 
So don't think just because I'm trying to see both sides of the situation I'm some kind of tyrant that abuses my guys. 
That being said anybody that can't take an occasional ass chewing or some harsh words once in a while needs to cut the lace off their panties and be a man. That's whats wrong with the country these days we are becoming a nation of whiny little wimps.


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Rando said:


> I'm 51. was active duty Marines in the early 80's, I've been in this trade almost every day of my life since I was about 10 years old. Including while on active duty, when I came home on leave I went and worked with Dad almost every day. I learned my first bit of people management in NCO school in the Corps. I never raise my voice I don't need to. If need be I can convey any thing I need to with a simple raise of an eyebrow or ask a question that makes the person stop and think about what an idiot they are being. Sometimes if a know it all needs some learning I will let them do it their way as long as it's not going to cost to much and then make them change their fawk up so it's right. I run some of our toughest jobs with the smallest crews and tightest schedules and I have guys begging to come work with me because I treat every one the way I want to be treated and I always get my incentive money and I share it with my guys after the project.
> So don't think just because I'm trying to see both sides of the situation I'm some kind of tyrant that abuses my guys.
> That being said anybody that can't take an occasional ass chewing or some harsh words once in a while needs to cut the lace off their panties and be a man. That's whats wrong with the country these days we are becoming a nation of whiny little wimps.


Hey panties are expensive sir


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

arie stratus said:


> Hey panties are expensive sir


quit Victoria's Secret and try Wal-Mart...:laughing:


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Rando said:


> quit Victoria's Secret and try Wal-Mart...:laughing:



I'm a plumber I can afford it Lol


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Arielattacks said:


> Its just the nature of the trade. Just a bunch of blue collar workers with a specialized trade. No real education like knowing how to read or be a decent human being. A lot of the old school guys are alcoholics divorced and miserable as hell. There only outlet is to make others feel inadequate. Its a self esteem issue. But that's why we are men and do the work that needs to be done. Do your job be the best you can love what you do and don't give a crap what anybody thinks. Life is short enjoy your trade and say F it. Just do it right. Trust me there were tunes I was ready to let my fists fly very many times


Do you work with "plumber"?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

arie stratus said:


> Lol you can create a hundred accounts how can anybody possibly monitor that. Its cyber world


No you can't, and yes we can.

You might experience a wee bit of difficulty when trying to login your other account.


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

redbeardplumber said:


> Do you work with "plumber"?


Yes


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Rando said:


> I'm 51. was active duty Marines in the early 80's, I've been in this trade almost every day of my life since I was about 10 years old. Including while on active duty, when I came home on leave I went and worked with Dad almost every day. I learned my first bit of people management in NCO school in the Corps. I never raise my voice I don't need to. If need be I can convey any thing I need to with a simple raise of an eyebrow or ask a question that makes the person stop and think about what an idiot they are being. Sometimes if a know it all needs some learning I will let them do it their way as long as it's not going to cost to much and then make them change their fawk up so it's right. I run some of our toughest jobs with the smallest crews and tightest schedules and I have guys begging to come work with me because I treat every one the way I want to be treated and I always get my incentive money and I share it with my guys after the project. So don't think just because I'm trying to see both sides of the situation I'm some kind of tyrant that abuses my guys. That being said anybody that can't take an occasional ass chewing or some harsh words once in a while needs to cut the lace off their panties and be a man. That's whats wrong with the country these days we are becoming a nation of whiny little wimps.


I'd have to politely disagree. I can see both sides. But a verbal ass chewing infront of your peers does not create motivation. It creates resentment. And as far as a nation of whining wimps... If wanting to be treated kindly is whining, by all means whine on America. Weed out the crap bosses who are stuck in the 50s, or guys who can't get over the fact their in charge and have to remind themselves and everyone by being a loud jerk. It's 2014- the trades are changing, change with it.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Something I will agree with , it seems todays plumbers are more sensitive to how they are talked too at work. Hell we can see how overly sensitive people are in here. Yet at times they are over confident and cocky and would rather die then admit they made a mistake.

I do not yell or scream at our guys, 80's guys and younger seem to have this side where they do not want to be corrected. They forget we are parents. Even as an owner or manager we are still parents. We may say good job once in awhile but our main job is too correct mistakes and mold you into the best person we can. We look at how we can make you better which means we must see your faults and remove them from the job.

It has nothing to do with disrespect. I just had a guy that we allowed to leave us go back to his old employer. He told 5 different people 5 different reasons why we he left and told a few he was getting into management. When I was asked why he would lie to us about that ,I said: he lied to customers and that is why he is gone. He could not accept that selling by omission of facts is unethical. I will tell you when you are doing something unethical I still will not yell or scream. He went back to a company that will put up with that crap and was a whiney fussy baby that we do not need or want.

If you do not change I will bring the example up in a team meeting and let you hear from others their feelings.

Other than that I do not expect ach plumber to have the same skill or knowledge. All things being equal, it never will be equal and that is a fact of life.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

*Folding Ruler Guy*



rjbphd said:


> So ya a folding ruler guy???



Just bought a new one at Homy

Lufkin red end no slide ... $9.75 good price on a stick rule I think!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Just bought a new one at Homy
> 
> Lufkin red end no slide ... $9.75 good price on a stick rule I think!


 I'm jealous


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I may yell but its not at guys that work with me. I yell due to the situation or if m frustrated over a situation but its never directed at guys that work with me. I think that everyone reacts differently to different approaches. As a manager you need to find what works best to get the most from your team. 

If you've done your best to do that and it still doesn't work then its either them or you. If its them then a change is in order, if its you then you need to change or go.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

What didn't the journeyman know about hydronics?


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## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

Plumbworker said:


> What didn't the journeyman know about hydronics?


I don't know too be honest


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Plumbworker said:


> What didn't the journeyman know about hydronics?


I know lots of plumbers that don't know hydronics I even seen seasoned veterans that never seen victaulic fitted copper lines before


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

arie stratus said:


> I know lots of plumbers that don't know hydronics I even seen seasoned veterans that never seen victaulic fitted copper lines before


 That would be me.. seen vict fittings and pipes but don't work with them.


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## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

Plumbworker said:


> What didn't the journeyman know about hydronics?


Yeah, let's be real are trade is diverse
How many people on here have been doing this for 30+ years and still ask questions

How many plumbers know which side the expansion tank goes on on a hydronic system ? 

How many know how to replace a jockey pump on the sprinkler system? 

How many new construction guys know service?


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Ptturner91 said:


> Yeah, let's be real are trade is diverse How many people on here have been doing this for 30+ years and still ask questions How many plumbers know which side the expansion tank goes on on a hydronic system ? How many know how to replace a jockey pump on the sprinkler system? How many new construction guys know service?


 I been lurking on this one . 
If your not asking questions everyday , you are at a point in that aspect of the trade that you are probably bored , or too cocky or just mailing it in. 
Yeah we " old timers " mostly had it hard, HARD from the bosses. I don't begrudge them. That's the way things were done back then. Hell, a teacher , neighbor or priest could whip your ass before Pops got home to do it again! We had some fear, we had huge respect for folks, we had motivation. Was it the right way to train & run men ,,, I'm not a shrink . It worked well. We are a great generation of tradesman. 
Have never felt the need to be a Hard- Azz to run men. Now days that doesn't work . So change or the times will change you ! 

My .02 

HEY -- I have used a sliding stick rule everyday for 33+ years ! WTF is the joke here on the Zone ? You young punks don't realize, us old-timers can use that thing like a samurai sword, so watch your mouth! LOL !


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

Cal said:


> I been lurking on this one .
> If your not asking questions everyday , you are at a point in that aspect of the trade that you are probably bored , or too cocky or just mailing it in.
> Yeah we " old timers " mostly had it hard, HARD from the bosses. I don't begrudge them. That's the way things were done back then. Hell, a teacher , neighbor or priest could whip your ass before Pops got home to do it again! We had some fear, we had huge respect for folks, we had motivation. Was it the right way to train & run men ,,, I'm not a shrink . It worked well. We are a great generation of tradesman.
> Have never felt the need to be a Hard- Azz to run men. Now days that doesn't work . So change or the times will change you !
> ...


Lol


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

I get to do service and appreciate the guys I work with. We all have different experiences and bring a wealth of knowledge to the table every morning as the jobs are handed out. Being able to talk about jobs and learn different ways to do things. I'm never ashamed to go back and correct something. On Monday I get to go back and correctly wire a humidifier to a nest that I saw for the first time yesterday. Looked it up on the "interweb" last night and saw how it worked. Personal growth is an ongoing process in this trade as everything changes constantly. I can learn something from everyone, no shame in that. As for ass chewings, company I'm with now is great, own up to mistakes call people if its something new. We all do it, and bosses appreciate it, helps us deliver great service to our customers.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

arie stratus said:


> And he marks his hangers with an actual plumb Bob and not a laser plumb bob. Lol


They make a laser plumb bob? I'm still using my old Starrett.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Just started my 23 yr old son as a helper. I gave him a folding rule to use.:laughing:

Actually, when I started, the old boss man would not let you use a tape measure, or a claw hammer. Had to be a ball peen.


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

smoldrn said:


> They make a laser plumb bob? I'm still using my old Starrett.


Lol


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## arie stratus (Apr 14, 2014)

smoldrn said:


> Just started my 23 yr old son as a helper. I gave him a folding rule to use.:laughing:
> 
> Actually, when I started, the old boss man would not let you use a tape measure, or a claw hammer. Had to be a ball peen.


And you drilled holes for anchors with that hammer and drill bit


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

arie stratus said:


> And you drilled holes for anchors with that hammer and drill bit


Actually, if it was a small hole in wood, they used an egg beater drill. The only power tools this company had was a right angle drill, sawzall, skillsaw, 3/8 drill, & a pipe machine from 1941. Everything else was done by hand.


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## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

*Less is More, but i still don't get how apparently...*

A great way to put things into perspective for me, is to associate a plumbing career with a sports team. I was always highly involved in sports in school and it literally made all the difference for me. I had college scholarships coming out the behind but was simply not well-adjusted to text-book learning. So i applied the same concepts that brought me success in the sports field to the trades, as it was all i knew and humbling yourself to accept a superiors constructive criticism on a daily basis can be as limitless as the mentors wisdom. It is more rewarding than someone with an attitude problem can comprehend. Some people are simply not team-players and are not interested in expanding their mind to allow such seeds to be planted. 
I was always hands on capable and a fast learner but severely lacked the direction that a coach provided, my success today is strictly derived from trusting in that system and submitting myself to a mentor to guide , mold , and help define my role within the companies i have served or the teams i played on. We had a tight group of guys who went through hell and back together, with an extremely hard ex-pro athlete coach who was so ruthless and unforgiving it was scary. He had such a strong border-line psychotic method to his pure madness that it not only motivated us, but brought us closer together, I have more gold medals than i can count because of it and am apart of a very small group that can say they won Provincial Championships in multiple fields in my high school years. But when you grow up poor like we did on the farms working harder than people with full-time jobs and missing school to pick rocks... you'd learn to appreciate any opportunity that allows you to escape that. 
Co-Workers are your team-mates as we all have the same goals and common interests already mostly established. If somebody sucked, the whole team suffered... we were pushed until we puked, 6 am volleyball/basketball practices before school and i'll be damned if we weren't punished severely for short-comings in competition. But we learned how to beat the system eventually by working together and forcing one another to bring our A game every game, stronger the bond/chemistry between people, the more powerful they become as a unit. One thumb is weak but 4 more fingers make a strong fist. If players were not committed to the team and would skip practices or fall behind in school, they would eventually get cut... collectively we learned self-discipline, how to trust one another, how to confide in one another, how to communicate, and how to manage and take care of our health and bodies through-out all the beatings. I have no regrets as i feel stronger, more confident, and more capable because i had the courage to give something everything i had and didn't accept failure as an option. Try till you die. 
We were taught if we wanted to excel at anything, we first had to fail repeatedly first, and if you want to be the best at something, find someone who you think is, and mirror them, and do as they do. With technology these days we are constantly seeing the youth of new generations surpassing the skill level of the classic greats, because we have access to so much knowledge these days there is no need to re-invent the wheel... back in the day when Tony Hawk did a 360 it was plain nuts and unheard off, and now you see 9 year old children pulling off 900's on a scooter.. They say Gretzky wouldn't last a year with the level of today's competition and Michael Jordan couldn't make a comeback... we only have a reasonably small window of time in our prime if you will... people develop the most long-lasting attributes in their youth that will carry on and on. So bad habits early on in someone life, can literally ruin their ability to persevere in life if they never had the proper tools and know-how to figure out there best approach to any given situation or have the humility to ask seemingly silly questions
Until someone takes responsibility for their own ability to learn and makes the conscious decision to do so, they simply won't advance at the pace of dedicated hard working individuals. I am nowhere near all-knowing as there is no such person in existence but i have developed amazing team-working skills that enabled me to recognize strengths and weaknesses in others and allows me to offer inspiration through leadership and demonstrating proper fundamental skill-sets to encourage people to grow exponentially faster than they would on their own, because no matter who you meet EVERY SINGLE person knows something you do not and you can always learn something new, the day you think you "made" it or know it all, is when the mental growth stops, as you decided it was time to do so. 
We all work with ignorant, rude, disrespectful people sometime in our lives. We have all been these people ourselves at times... especially on the internet where anonymity and a screen to hide behind can bloat the ego of any human acting out on their insecurities or fear based rationalizations. Bad apples can spoil the bunch tho, and i believe every army needs a good general. If 3 workers all get paid the same, but one guy calls in sick once a week, and the other guys is constantly late , and the other guys is always on his phone distracted, how are allowing the negative habitual patterns slide going to help the company? The chemistry / resentment between workers will only diminish production and employee relations.. :yes:
In free America, the land of opportunity in a capitalistic society, good work is supposed to be rewarded, to encourage it to continue. Enforcing rules and having standards isn't easy to do, and i'm not a fan of "ruling with an iron fist" as i believe respect goes a longer way these days... but the sad truth is players need to be coached or they would be hopelessly lost, a learning environment is no place for excuses or big egos. Another sad fact is how typically people work hard enough to not get fired and employers treat them good enough so they don't quit...making it equally as detrimental to pamper someone or favor them as it is to be too hard on someone. Its no surprise in this day and age plumbers are becoming increasingly more sensitive to any criticism as we grow older, we build up our own kingdoms at home and sometimes that transcends into the work place. If your children adore you and you're wife vastly respects you, it's gonna be super hard on your ego if your 40 something getting into the trades and you get some 21 year old kid boss whos daddy owns the company and hes riding your a$$ just to power trip...But the way i see it, people's words only carry the power you allow them too... and once you realize why they act out and say the things they do you can actually feel sorry for them and pity them and its doesn't matter how sh1tty the cards you get dealt are, its how you play them that define you. Be the change you want to see in the world, opposed to playing the victim and looking for sympathy. The path to nowhere is paved with excuses. It seems to be forgotten that you get exactly what you put in...


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