# Hydro jetting pressures on certain pipes ?



## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

I was wondering what psi is safe to jet 3" and 4" cast iron, pvc and concrete. These three are what i see most commonly here in oklahoma. Also something that bothers me is if i come up against a 90 in a 3 or 4 inch sewer and i have a root ranger on the end will i blow a hole in the 90? Really curious about this and i hope you jetter guys can help me out.:smile:


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

I typically only operate a Root Ranger from a basement cleanout our an exterior cleanout. Are you feeding it through branch lines?

For me; jetting is mostly a secondary charge after we have opened up a sewer line by snaking. This way we can see with a camera what we are dealing with and plan accordingly. If you are going in blind to a 3" CI line; I would just toss on the perpetrator nozzle. 

What kind of PSI are you working with on your jetter?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

rrot ranger, you don't need a lot of psi.....heck 3000 and it'll cut


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

We are looking at buying a spartan warrior for some commercial accounts but also we have some customers with long lines that have root intrusion that we would like to offer a better cleaning and with warranty. We will camera before jetting to determine pipe condition. We also will cable before jetting.:smile:

We would be jetting from cleanout toward city main. What hose size and nozzles would be best for cutting roots and making making it around 3 and 4 inch 90s? Would 3000 psi damage 50-60 year old cast iron and concrete pipe?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I never jet cast iron. No idea about concrete since we don't have them here. You're getting the 4018 model?


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

gear junkie said:


> I never jet cast iron. No idea about concrete since we don't have them here. You're getting the 4018 model?


Yes the 4018 At least thats what were aiming for.:biggrin:


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Spacepirate said:


> We are looking at buying a spartan warrior for some commercial accounts but also we have some customers with long lines that have root intrusion that we would like to offer a better cleaning and with warranty. We will camera before jetting to determine pipe condition. We also will cable before jetting.:smile:
> 
> 
> 
> We would be jetting from cleanout toward city main. What hose size and nozzles would be best for cutting roots and making making it around 3 and 4 inch 90s? Would 3000 psi damage 50-60 year old cast iron and concrete pipe?




The problem is a camera doesn’t always tell the whole story on cast iron. If it’s cracked you may see it. It could be scaled bad enough to not see it. 

If the CI is in really good shape it’ll take 4K psi. I’ve done it. But I don’t think it’s smart because you don’t know the true condition of the pipe.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

@;


Toli said:


> The problem is a camera doesn’t always tell the whole story on cast iron. If it’s cracked you may see it. It could be scaled bad enough to not see it.
> 
> If the CI is in really good shape it’ll take 4K psi. I’ve done it. But I don’t think it’s smart because you don’t know the true condition of the pipe.


So if i have to cut roots from cast iron and i ran at 3k do you that would be okay? I would probably never run at full pressure anyway especially after friction loss on my hoses.


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

Wait; your exterior lines are Cast Iron? Typically here in MT on the older homes it's CI on the interior and Clay on the exterior.

I agree that jetting CI is a bit risky; but hey. If there are roots growing in it; its already compromised.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

Standard Drain said:


> Wait; your exterior lines are Cast Iron? Typically here in MT on the older homes it's CI on the interior and Clay on the exterior.
> 
> I agree that jetting CI is a bit risky; but hey. If there are roots growing in it; its already compromised.


Oh yeah its outside im talking about. I would not want to run it under the house.:smile: We have cast iron under house but i see a lot of cast iron lines as well as concrete lines outside.

I usually see roots getting in at the 90 on the riser going to the main from either a seperation or a fitting leaking.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> I never jet cast iron. No idea about concrete since we don't have them here. You're getting the 4018 model?


Why do you not jet cast iron? I've done it 1000's of times.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Toli said:


> The problem is a camera doesn’t always tell the whole story on cast iron. If it’s cracked you may see it. It could be scaled bad enough to not see it.
> 
> If the CI is in really good shape it’ll take 4K psi. I’ve done it. But I don’t think it’s smart because you don’t know the true condition of the pipe.


It depends on the use of the cast iron. I would not jet 50 year old cast iron at a heavy grease restaurant but I will jet 50 yo cast iron at an office building. Just did it last month, even used a chain flail.


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

dhal22 said:


> It depends on the use of the cast iron. I would not jet 50 year old cast iron at a heavy grease restaurant but I will jet 50 yo cast iron at an office building. Just did it last month, even used a chain flail.


I thought Grease was a Jetters favorite foe?


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

fixitright said:


> I thought Grease was a Jetters favorite foe?


Roots, grease, sediment, scale, my jetter does not discriminate. They all make money.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

dhal22 said:


> Roots, grease, sediment, scale, my jetter does not discriminate. They all make money.


Dhal22 i was hoping you would respond to this. I know you have a mongoose and have a lot of experience jetting. Do you cut roots in 4 inch cast iron and if you do what pressure and nozzle do you prefer? Also coming up i would like to pm you regarding jetting if you dont mind. :smile:


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Spacepirate said:


> Dhal22 i was hoping you would respond to this. I know you have a mongoose and have a lot of experience jetting. Do you cut roots in 4 inch cast iron and if you do what pressure and nozzle do you prefer? Also coming up i would like to pm you regarding jetting if you dont mind. :smile:


Buy the jetter head set that spartan sells and you can't go wrong. As for jetting cast iron, it all depends on condition of the pipe. If it is an unfamiliar line we try to cable then camera before we jet. We deal with pretty much nothing but grease lines on grocery stores and you definitely don't want jet a line that the bottom is out. We have a Spartan Soldier and are very happy with it on lines up to 8" plus we bought the jetter head set that spartan sells, there is a head in there for most situations in commercial.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

justme said:


> Buy the jetter head set that spartan sells and you can't go wrong. As for jetting cast iron, it all depends on condition of the pipe. If it is an unfamiliar line we try to cable then camera before we jet. We deal with pretty much nothing but grease lines on grocery stores and you definitely don't want jet a line that the bottom is out. We have a Spartan Soldier and are very happy with it on lines up to 8" plus we bought the jetter head set that spartan sells, there is a head in there for most situations in commercial.


I'll check out their nozzles thank you:smile: So do you jet up to 8 inch or do you jet 8 inch?
Do you find the soldier under powered at times? I Really appreciate all the info i can get.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

dhal22 said:


> Why do you not jet cast iron? I've done it 1000's of times.


The cast iron in our area is hitting about 50-70 years old and though most of it actually still looks good, it's still sitting on it's last legs imo. also I've seen where a jetter will remove big chunks of scale and they'll cause more issues then if it was left alone


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Spacepirate said:


> @;
> 
> So if i have to cut roots from cast iron and i ran at 3k do you that would be okay? I would probably never run at full pressure anyway especially after friction loss on my hoses.


If you're looking for me to tell you what you can and can't do, keep looking. Too many variables with CI to nail down a hard and fast rule. 

I agree with everything Dahl and justme said. I've got a Long John Silver's in a building from the early 70's that's begging me to jet. Not happening. I know there's rotten CI in there. But I've also seen 100 year old XH cast that looks like the day it was installed. I'll jet that all day long. 

You better be prepared to deal with the scale. You will knock some off and you have to get it out. I've successfully pushed it with a warthog but it takes time.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

1906 XH CI. I’ll jet that all day long.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

Yeah its the non heavy weight style cast iron i would be worried about. I wouldnt even be asking if Most of our cast iron looked like that. Thats some heavy stuff right there. 

Toli what nozzles and hose size do you prefer for 3 and 4 inch any pipe ?


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Spacepirate said:


> Yeah its the non heavy weight style cast iron i would be worried about. I wouldnt even be asking if Most of our cast iron looked like that. Thats some heavy stuff right there.
> 
> Toli what nozzles and hose size do you prefer for 3 and 4 inch any pipe ?


I rarely see 3” CI. 4” I’m trying to get at least 3/8” through it. I have run 1/2” hose in 4”. But, If you send 18gpm in 4” you had better know where all 18 are going. Wouldn’t take long to flood a place. 

Nozzles- I’ve got a variety of various ones. I find myself going back to a warthog most of the time. My NCT chain cutter is 1/2” but jetted at 14 gpm.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Spacepirate said:


> Dhal22 i was hoping you would respond to this. I know you have a mongoose and have a lot of experience jetting. Do you cut roots in 4 inch cast iron and if you do what pressure and nozzle do you prefer? Also coming up i would like to pm you regarding jetting if you dont mind. :smile:


As long as you say 'Boomer Sooner' like I do. 

Roots are always situational. Upstream access? Not much can resist an upstream assault. Downstream? We ran up a 7 hour tab on Friday at $450 an hour jetting downstream(commercial building) and no luck. The customer wouldn't let my junior plumber leave despite me telling them over the phone we are wasting their time with no upstream access.
We returned today and oh so luckily I started pulling mud out on a head. We will sawcut the warehouse floor in the morning and start digging.

Pressure and nozzles change every job. I have generic heads, Warthog, Enz and chainflail attachments. I think 2500 - 3500 is plenty of pressure.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

dhal22 said:


> As long as you say 'Boomer Sooner' like I do.
> 
> Roots are always situational. Upstream access? Not much can resist an upstream assault. Downstream? We ran up a 7 hour tab on Friday at $450 an hour jetting downstream(commercial building) and no luck. The customer wouldn't let my junior plumber leave despite me telling them over the phone we are wasting their time with no upstream access.
> We returned today and oh so luckily I started pulling mud out on a head. We will sawcut the warehouse floor in the morning and start digging.
> ...


Fantastic info!!! Thank you:smile: Are you a sooner fan?:vs_OMG: 

To clarify are you saying jetting from cleanout toward main or from main /manhole to building is better. The way i always understood was its better to go from downstream up to the problem. Thanks for taking the time to answer my stupid questions:glasses:


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Lifelong Sooner fan. I was born in Tulsa. It looks like you need some phone time with me or someone or even better a salesman.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

I went on one today- 150’ of 6”. Fast food. Jet and inspect. Should be in and out, nice and easy.

3 hours later I got 3 city blocks plugged tight. 

You just never know how it’s going to go.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Toli said:


> I went on one today- 150’ of 6”. Fast food. Jet and inspect. Should be in and out, nice and easy.
> 
> 3 hours later I got 3 city blocks plugged tight.
> 
> You just never know how it’s going to go.


Our 7 hours of jetting last Friday has turned into a spot repair 9' deep under a warehouse floor. $3000 in jetting turns into a $10,000 repair. I'll download photos tomorrow.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

dhal22 said:


> Our 7 hours of jetting last Friday has turned into a spot repair 9' deep under a warehouse floor. $3000 in jetting turns into a $10,000 repair. I'll download photos tomorrow.



Awesome!!!!


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

So one of my guys jetted part of an 80 year old warehouse a couple of Fridays ago and had no luck but the tenant paid anyway. We jetted here in November and had similar problems until we sold them a excavation/cleanout inside the warehouse. We got them open but I was convinced we were crossing over upstream to another part of the warehouse. 

So they backed up again 2 Fridays ago and with a 600 person event the next night the tenant was forced to rent temporary toilet trailers. I showed up there the following Monday and jetted a couple more hours. I got lucky and found a clean out covered by an inch of concrete. Jetting from there I started pulling back mud. The camera showed 8+'deep so the unhappy landlord agreed to another excavate and expose. Now they're almost $20,000 in and no guarantee. 
8' down and the ci is a rotted mess. With a 1000 person event on Saturday I sold them a temporary grinder pump lift station. It is working fine.


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