# Small Cable Blades or a Bent End ?



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Since this was on another post I started this I just wanted to get a feel for which you prefer ?
if a moderator can please set this as a voting poll that would be great 
A POLL ?
Just wanted to post as a discussion
Can you only clear a tub, shower, lav sink, kitchen sink or washer drain using
1/4", 5/16", 3/8', OR A 13/32" cables and have to have some type of blade or other attachment or the bent cable ? :thumbup:

please give a response I would really like to get some ideal of which it is ?


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

1/4" for 1 1/2", 5/16" for 2". 

1 1/4" sectional for 3" and up.


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

5/16" & 5/8" for 1 1/4" to 3"
5/8" and larger for 3" to 6"


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

After today 5/8" sectional (no attatchement) for everything then everything else gets the jetter:laughing:


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

Doesn't matter if there is a head on the 5/16 for small pipes


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Spartan style bulb end with a blade on 5/16", 13/32", and 1/2" cables. 1/4" electric eel open hook end for tubs and basins. 1/4" Spartan open hook for stubborn stoppages in basins and tubs. 1/4" bare end cable opened up like a cork screw for heavy rust stoppages in 1.5" gal lines.


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## wharfrat (Nov 1, 2014)

blades only on 15/16 when 3" access or larger.
1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 bent end.


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## Roto-Rooter (Jan 31, 2015)

5/16 with bend or blade depending on set up. 3" and larger 11/16 with full blades . Long runs and grease lines the jetter when at all possible.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

With the drum machines being my choice...

On small drains I'll use either the 1/4" or 3/8" cable with a bent end.
On a known straight run of 2" I may opt for a blade on a 1/2" cable but usually do not.
I'll only run blades on my 1/2" & 11/16" cables...

Blades on smaller cables will bring nothing but trouble...

We have a 6 month residential & 1 month commercial guarantee on drain cleaning and I have maintained a "less than 1% callback rate" for years, so obviously it works...


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Plumbducky said:


> Doesn't matter if there is a head on the 5/16 for small pipes


I would disagree. 

Used a Spartan 81 machine with 5/16 cable and a bent end down a 1 1/2" KS drain. Hard blockage about 15 feet in. Wouldn't clear.

Used another Spartan 81 machine with 5/16 cable with a drop head bulb. Cleared the blockage without a problem. Coincidence? Only difference in machines and cables was the drop head bulb.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

I should of stated that all my cables have a bent end regardless of whether I'm using a blade or not.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Cobra bend on sink cables, although I have occasionally used a drop head, but usually nothing.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I run a kink or two on the end of all my cables and only run cutters on 5/8" and larger. On my drill snake usually I cut half of the corkscrew off. My 3/8" cable has a cutter on it right now (just the way it was when I bought it) and will stay there until I have to cut it off to get the job done.

When it comes to those "hard to get" drains I find sometimes you have to play with the kinks, more aggressive, just a slight kink..... Whatever it takes to get the job done, and most importantly, done right.

1/4" is anywhere from a 15 degree to 90 degree and generally a Z pattern with the very end a tad longer... about 1 1/4" long, second section about 3/4".

3/8" cable usually a single 20 degree bend and a about 2 1/4" long.

5/8" or 3/4" cable about 10-15 degree bend about 3" long not counting the cutter.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> Cobra bend on sink cables, although I have occasionally used a drop head, but usually nothing.


I wonder how many out know the cobra bend ? :whistling2:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Shhhh


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## TomSV650 (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Erickson double drop head cable. I use both the 1/4 and 5/16, great for those back to back bathtubs.

For all around use, I like the General 1/4 intercore spring head cable that has a small loop on the end. You can run it in reverse and it works great.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

TomSV650 said:


> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the *Erickson double drop head cable*. I use both the 1/4 and 5/16, great for those back to back bathtubs.
> 
> For all around use, I like the General 1/4 intercore spring head cable that has a small loop on the end. You can run it in reverse and it works great.


I just bought the general version of that. Was wondering how it worked.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

1/2 cable on drum machine with bent cable end and clog chopper if possible, if it doesn't cooperate then I pull the chopper off.


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

I've been using the general double drop heads for years, sucks when they come back double dropheadless


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Hillside said:


> I've been using the general double drop heads for years, sucks when they come back double dropheadless


What machine are you using with that cable?


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

Gorlitz go 15's


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

How bout you? I started with running the general gun but for me the 15 is a lot better


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I use the K50. Got the drum adapter and use the 5/8 cable when possible.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Hillside said:


> I've been using the general double drop heads for years, sucks when they come back double dropheadless



Hahahahahahaha lmfao!!


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

JERRYMAC said:


> Since this was on another post I started this I just wanted to get a feel for which you prefer ?
> if a moderator can please set this as a voting poll that would be great
> A POLL ?
> Just wanted to post as a discussion
> ...


all 1/4 uses the spiral at the end of the cable that spartan puts on there, unless it's a tub that ONLY allows a tiny cable through it
Tub - 1/4
shower - 13/32 or 1/4, depends on size of drain
lav sink - 1/4 usually
kitchen sink - 13/32 with full size spartan auger drop head bulb
washer drain - I try whatever works, cast iron washer drains are a pain in the neck

I would use a small blade on a kitchen line if there was one built into a drop head


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Btw - what's a "Double" drop head look like anyway?


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Hillside said:


> I've been using the general double drop heads for years, sucks when they come back double dropheadless


I've been considering using JB weld on the pins that hold those drop heads on. So far as I can tell, they come back headless a lot because they really aren't held on very well.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

I think I've used a double drop head about 4 times in my career, although that's not counting when I use my erikson.


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

........


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## wharfrat (Nov 1, 2014)

I was trained that , " back to back stoppages are what separate the men from the boys."


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Maybe so.

But using modern* technology cables and heads is what turns a 4 hour call into a 1 hour call.




*I use the word "Modern" very loosely when it comes to our profession....


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Wharfrat : I was trained that , " back to back stoppages are what separate the men from the boys." 


Or the experienced and equipped from those who are not.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Hillside said:


>


Wow! I couldn't imagine a need for one of those contraptions...:no:

Is that what they were talking about falling apart in the drain?:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

wharfrat said:


> I was trained that , " back to back stoppages are what separate the men from the boys."


They can be...
But with just the "Right Bend" and a "Vision" of how the drain is configured, you'll get em done in no time at all...

Listen to your cable talk...
It will tell you where the drop is...


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Redwood said:


> They can be...
> But with just the "Right Bend" and a "Vision" of how the drain is configured, you'll get em done in no time at all...
> 
> Listen to your cable talk...
> It will tell you where the drop is...


Or, if you don't happen to be "The Cable Whisperer", you can use a good drop head :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Tounces said:


> Or, if you don't happen to be "The Cable Whisperer", you can use a good drop head :laughing:


What do you use on galvanized with a drain opener hardened rust and hair blockage at the drop that the drop head glides right over?

I don't even have a drop head...
Never felt the need...


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## Roto-Rooter (Jan 31, 2015)

All I ever had was trouble with a drop head. A blade or bend has worked for a long time here.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

I'm all over here still trying to figure out how to use the k50 through a floor drain.


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

Flyout95 said:


> I'm all over here still trying to figure out how to use the k50 through a floor drain.


Put it in reverse and it will self feed in


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Wow! I couldn't imagine a need for one of those contraptions...:no:
> 
> Is that what they were talking about falling apart in the drain?:laughing:




They do come in handy from time to time. Especially when you have to go around a 90 or two to get to the drop. It takes away much of the feel. Sometimes they are good for just getting around an old crusty 90, they can be a time saver.


Specialty cable that gets used several times per year.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Redwood said:


> What do you use on galvanized with a drain opener hardened rust and hair blockage at the drop that the drop head glides right over?
> 
> I don't even have a drop head...
> Never felt the need...


The drop head is a spiral. It picks up hair fairly well.

And rust? ****, I'm not there to clear all the rest out of their kitchen line. If they want it to be that thorough, they need to jet it.

I do an "opening" with the cable, and I flush it out as well as I can while I open it. If they want more than that, they need more than a cabling.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Tounces said:


> The drop head is a spiral. It picks up hair fairly well.
> 
> And rust? ****, I'm not there to clear all the rest out of their kitchen line. If they want it to be that thorough, they need to jet it.
> 
> I do an "opening" with the cable, and I flush it out as well as I can while I open it. If they want more than that, they need more than a cabling.


Yea... Anything can pick up hair pretty well...

What I'm referring to was probably a partial hair clog for a long time with fairly regular drain opener usage...
Then some clumps of rust fall on and join the party...
A few more rounds of plumber in a bottle and that finally stops working...

What are now up against will send your drophead right down the pipe to a much easier path like the back to back fixture...

It is a dense hard packed chunk of hair reinforced rust....
That one will separate the men from the boys...


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

A good drain cleaner should clear a back to back without a drop head in very short time. It's entry level drain cleaning. Then move on to back to back offsets. Pretty soon you'll be able to hook a fitting 25' away. Just sayin.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Tounces said:


> Maybe so.
> 
> But using modern* technology cables and heads is what turns a 4 hour call into a 1 hour call.
> 
> ...



4 hours on a back to back? If that happens more than once then you should reconsider your choice of career. And drop heads are far from modern. They've been around for many years.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Ok so now I'm gonna stir some sh*t. Anyone here do a back to back sink line from the top with a gal tee in the wall? No hub and pvc don't count. Neither do drop heads. So let's see who has the biggest d*ck. 😁


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Drain Pro said:


> Ok so now I'm gonna stir some sh*t. Anyone here do a back to back sink line from the top with a gal tee in the wall? No hub and pvc don't count. Neither do drop heads. So let's see who has the biggest d*ck. 😁


If there are slip joints I'll pull the trap, but if there aren't I'll stab it from the top...

Kinda just like back to back bathtubs at a hotel... Right?


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

This is what I use...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

AssTyme said:


> This is what I use...


Yep! That's in my truck right next to the drop head...


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Drain Pro said:


> Ok so now I'm gonna stir some sh*t. Anyone here do a back to back sink line from the top with a gal tee in the wall? No hub and pvc don't count. Neither do drop heads. So let's see who has the biggest d*ck. &#55357;&#56833;


I got one for ya....

Went to an old slumlord house that was turned into a multi-unit house close to down town once for a BTB lav.... Vacant unit.... didn't know it was back to back when I shoved my cable in it with a galvy double tee. Something didn't feel right. Cable broke through her trap and made a huge mess in her bathroom. Tenant was such a ***** crack whore looking person about letting me in I just left her bathroom with cable marks all over it. Replaced her trap, got the line cleared and left. Let bossman know. No complaints.

Now I normally would clean that up, but "crack whore" didn't seem to care... so I didn't either. Section 8 house. Owner went out of business. Toward the end we collected a check for $100 over the basic charge and waited for it to clear before we'd fix their drain.


Does that qualify for being a Big Dick?


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Redwood said:


> If there are slip joints I'll pull the trap, but if there aren't I'll stab it from the top...
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda just like back to back bathtubs at a hotel... Right?



Exactly


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Drain Pro said:


> 4 hours on a back to back? If that happens more than once then you should reconsider your choice of career. And drop heads are far from modern. They've been around for many years.


Well, maybe not 4 hours, I wasn't timing, and I was watching someone else do it, years ago.

Personally I've always used either drop heads or a mini-cam. I Send the mini-cam in from the opposite side, line my cable up at the exact spot, then just work it till I watch it go down.

As far as drop heads being modern goes, that's why I put at asterisk next to it. "Modern" is kind of laughable in our trade, most of us have to invent a lot of our own ****(like the under sink tube) because innovation almost doesn't exist in drain cleaning. The only innovation you ever really see is from drain cleaners themselves.

I tell you though - if I ever win the freaking lottery, I am going to invent **** for all the drain cleaners out there. 

And then I'll only sell it to small business owners, because screw corporations and what they've done to our trade.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Yea... Anything can pick up hair pretty well...
> 
> What I'm referring to was probably a partial hair clog for a long time with fairly regular drain opener usage...
> Then some clumps of rust fall on and join the party...
> ...


Well, I do HAVE blades for my 13/32nd machine, I just don't use them very often. 

It's very rare I need to use anything besides the drop-head, especially with a 13/32nd spartan inner core cable. Also I use an Autofeed 75 on a 100 machine, so it's even less likely to bind up. 

It sounds like you're talking about one very specific and rare incidence that you ran into, not a common occurrence.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Tounces said:


> It sounds like you're talking about one very specific and rare incidence that you ran into, not a common occurrence.


No I actually see it fairly frequently...
We have quite a bit of galv drainage here...
And the dorms at one of the universities we service are virtually all this type...


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Redwood said:


> No I actually see it fairly frequently...
> We have quite a bit of galv drainage here...
> And the dorms at one of the universities we service are virtually all this type...


Are we talking about a tub or shower drain here? Because I'm not sure what else would have hair in it. If there's hair in the kitchen line you got some weird people living there.

And with a tub or a shower I wouldn't be using a drophead anyway, because they don't generally go to a T. And if it does go to a T, then problem is before it reaches the T 95% of the time.

But then I wouldn't be using a blade either because it'd be a 1/4 cable.

With a large enough shower drain if I can't get it open with a 1/4, a lot of times I'll actually take my toilet auger and ram through it with that. Works surprisingly well.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Side by side lav sinks in the girls dorm... The drop is in the center....


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## wharfrat (Nov 1, 2014)

I don't think I will ever get tired of that feeling when the water finally drops on a stubborn stoppage. It is a bit of a high for me.
A few years ago I dropped the trap at a school beneath the breakroom sink. Cleaned the line and disconnected the hot water supply line to flush through the San tee before I buttoned it all up. Thankfully the line was indeed open because the hot water angle stop broke at that moment (wouldn't close). I was able to kink thess hose and rreconnect it to the faucet. I learned a valuable lesson on that one of things that could happen that I have never even thought of.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> With the drum machines being my choice...
> 
> On small drains I'll use either the 1/4" or 3/8" cable with a bent end.
> On a known straight run of 2" I may opt for a blade on a 1/2" cable but usually do not.
> ...


So you are saying that you use cables that are made for using a head on the end,but you run the cable without the head on it????


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Side by side lav sinks in the girls dorm... The drop is in the center....


I'll be first to admit my drain cleaning skills are lacking,for one I hate doing it but will,second all I have to use is the ridgid k-39 hand drill drain gun with 5/16"and 3/8" cables for small drains.what machine do you have the best luck with red??
Oh and the best way I've found to clean back to back drains is cut access hole in wall then cut the vent


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Side by side lav sinks in the girls dorm... The drop is in the center....


You have to say the actual size of the pipe or that doesn't mean much.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

sparky said:


> So you are saying that you use cables that are made for using a head on the end,but you run the cable without the head on it????


Yes I use a bent cable end...
Like the pic below...












sparky said:


> I'll be first to admit my drain cleaning skills are lacking,for one I hate doing it but will,second all I have to use is the ridgid k-39 hand drill drain gun with 5/16"and 3/8" cables for small drains.what machine do you have the best luck with red??
> Oh and the best way I've found to clean back to back drains is cut access hole in wall then cut the vent


I use a K-3800 with 1/4" and 3/8" drums loaded. I also have a 1/2" but rarely use that...
The 1/2" I would use blades with...


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Yes I use a bent cable end...
> Like the pic below...
> 
> 
> ...


Ok thanks


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Tounces said:


> You have to say the actual size of the pipe or that doesn't mean much.


HE is talking about 11/2" galv. with a T cross in the middle,
and when you are working a bathroom with tile walls or mirrors from the counter to the ceiling they do not want you cutting a hole and leaving a clean out tee in the middle ! :furious:

or back to back tub/showers in apts, with tile or fiberglass walls 

so the only way is the proper bent hook on a cable and you feel the cable
and 
"NONE OF THAT DRAIN ACID STUFF"


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Zackly Jerry!


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## Roto-Rooter (Jan 31, 2015)

I wish they would ban the damn acid from the market. Home owner just pours it in the drain, we have to work in it


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Roto-Rooter said:


> I wish they would ban the damn acid from the market. Home owner just pours it in the drain, we have to work in it


I charge extra for it. I sometimes hint that the homeowner should call the plumber who dumped it to be reimbursed for my hazard charge.


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## Roto-Rooter (Jan 31, 2015)

I also charge extra!!!!!!


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

My tenant clogged his k/s up a couple of weeks ago... Story short, he's a friend who is majorly disabled. He asked me to pick up some draino as he knows more about chemistry than me and knows how to use it properly... I just waited till his next Dr. visit and fixed it right. 

I hate that crap. Most of the time people out here will warn you when they've used it, and I won't charge extra, but no warning and or a tenant there's an extra charge. With a rental the LL will appreciate it and pass the "savings" onto the tenants.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

OpenSights said:


> My tenant clogged his k/s up a couple of weeks ago... Story short, he's a friend who is majorly disabled. He asked me to pick up some draino as he knows more about chemistry than me and knows how to use it properly... I just waited till his next Dr. visit and fixed it right.
> 
> I hate that crap. Most of the time people out here will warn you when they've used it, and I won't charge extra, but no warning and or a tenant there's an extra charge. With a rental the LL will appreciate it and pass the "savings" onto the tenants.


That is what I advised my apt mgr's that I would be charging extra anytime
drano, or any drain chemical was used in the drains, :furious:
this did not include bio agents as they are pretty harmless :whistling2:


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

I don't mind draino. Acid is what gets me. I'll usually waive the fee for the unknowing HO depending on attitude. I give no breaks what so ever if a plumber dumped it in then gave up


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I hate doing it, and have only done it twice (With the exception of my own house for the crap that builds up in my stool from our crappy city water) but I've used muriatic acid to help flush out the crap from urnal lines.... I hated doing it, but with no jetter available, and when a cable/blowbag didn't work... let's just say I followed orders.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

That is the one and only time that I would use any type of acid
I learned when I was young apprentice muriatic acid would dissolve lime and 
calcium buildup in toilets and urinals,
the last time I did this it dawned on me what I was flushing down the drains
I did a couple urinals at a big store I removed from the wall after taken them out back of the store I used their commercial mop bucket poured in a couple gallons of acid and let the urinals soak in the acid till it dissolved all the build up out of the trap ways, then came the problem of how to get rid of the acid,
so I poured it down a storm drain, and vowed never again,


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Maybe what we need is an online video showing exactly what happens to a cast iron pipe with acid in it, in fast forward.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

JERRYMAC said:


> That is the one and only time that I would use any type of acid
> I learned when I was young apprentice muriatic acid would dissolve lime and
> calcium buildup in toilets and urinals,
> the last time I did this it dawned on me what I was flushing down the drains
> ...


...Why didn't you just pour it onto dirt? At least that would have filtered it out.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

No dirt just asphalt parking lot/ driveway


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

You guys ever sell BioClean? I've sold a bunch, and when I go to the same kitchen line, or whatever sludgy line, as last year I find the jug Full! When I sell the stuff I tell people "For one it wont work if you don't use it. It is a maintenance product, not a drain opener. Fill up whatever sink Flush the line out, and either just before bed or work when it won't be used for sometime, use it. And don't wash your hands with any kind of anti-bacterial soap after using it." Some customers use it and ask for another every time I show up when a prevent is needed on their main.


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