# Upcoming boiler install #1



## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

For some reason I can only post one picture at a time. I'll be starting the install after Christmas. House is almost 4000 square feet. 120 years old, three levels. In-joist heating on the main level, baseboards on the second and third.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Comments?


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

Looks great!

What about full purges though? Looks like just auto vents for air removal?


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

I've found that with vents on the high points they purge themselves without any problem. I thought about adding them but decided against it.


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

What about purging with a pump and 3 hoses? Or adding anti freeze and inhibitor? 
Also those auto vents get a lil crapped up over time and they will let air in as fast as they can let it out. In my opinion they are a great addition to regular purges definitely not a replacement for them. 


You could add 2 well placed ball valves (as long as that is a drain you drew at the ends of the headers) to what you have drawn and have full purging on all the zones. I would add two ball valves one after or to the right of the circled t's (I guess those are thermometers) idk lol


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

Looks like caps on the ends now that I look again, they would have to be drain for what I had suggested to work

Here is what I use now that LF brass has the price jacked on adapter tees


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Adding a valve on the return and a drain off the end of the header is something I was considering. I'm probably going to end up doing that. It's all going to be black iron, so adding a 1 1/4" x 1/2" bushing and a sediment faucet would be the simplest thing to do. I was thinking of that more for ease of draining sections down to service circulators or zone valves.

Looking back I also decided to add valves to the mixing valve.


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

I didn't know that installing the old style expansion tank was still a thing


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

I'd rather something that will last longer than a few years before the diaphragm goes to pieces and it rots out


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## gap1927 (Feb 25, 2014)

Re: expansion tank. I have an Amtrol bladder type expansion on my own boiler that is 23 years old. It did lose its precharge once over this time period but still appears to be fine.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

gap1927 said:


> Re: expansion tank. I have an Amtrol bladder type expansion on my own boiler that is 23 years old. It did lose its precharge once over this time period but still appears to be fine.


Ok... That's one that lasted, proving that there are always exceptions to the rule.

Now how many have you replaced that were just a few years old that either had bad diaphragms or had holes rotted through them?

And how many old-style tanks have failed on you? (Not counting ones with nails driven through the top)


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## HonestPlumb (Jan 25, 2015)

True, but how many relief valves have released due to the old style tank not being drained ? Also, how many of those that were full of water and hung by band iron and a couple of 10 penny nails, bent over for support. I sure wouldn't ever walk under one ! I will agree with you, they do last. I have seen them in houses 75 + years old. Not going to get that out of an Amtrol !


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

HonestPlumb said:


> True, but how many relief valves have released due to the old style tank not being drained ? Also, how many of those that were full of water and hung by band iron and a couple of 10 penny nails, bent over for support. I sure wouldn't ever walk under one ! I will agree with you, they do last. I have seen them in houses 75 + years old. Not going to get that out of an Amtrol !


Also...

If the hydronics guy/burner tech who maintains the system does his/her job properly the tank should never be full of water!


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## gap1927 (Feb 25, 2014)

The truth is most people don't maintain their systems and only call someone in when something is wrong. They want their heating systems to be completely automated and maintenance free. The world is lazy & they just expect things to work.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

gap1927 said:


> The truth is most people don't maintain their systems and only call someone in when something is wrong. They want their heating systems to be completely automated and maintenance free. The world is lazy & they just expect things to work.


That is very true, it's a shame that people can't realize the amount of good that a little maintenance can do.

This system will have an oil fired boiler though, and I know it will be properly maintained so I'm not worried about it.


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## HonestPlumb (Jan 25, 2015)

mrgreek- Truer words were never spoken. Just a little annual maintenance, will increase the life expectancy of a boiler exponentially. They do not want to spend a few hundred dollars every year, as opposed to (a 4,000 square foot house) 7-10 thousand every 10-15 ! People will save pennies to spend dollars !!


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## plumb1bob (Dec 14, 2012)

I always thought bladder style expansion tank would protect system from air pockets in the system when off for the season. Maybe in Canada your heating system doesn't sit idle as long. With old fashioned tank type systems, If the tank gets waterlogged, where does the air go? It doesn't disappear, extrol tank and purge valves can keep me home in cold weather, not out after hours for a service call.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumb1bob said:


> I always thought bladder style expansion tank would protect system from air pockets in the system when off for the season. Maybe in Canada your heating system doesn't sit idle as long. With old fashioned tank type systems, If the tank gets waterlogged, where does the air go? It doesn't disappear, extrol tank and purge valves can keep me home in cold weather, not out after hours for a service call.


It goes to the hi spots lol


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## Tony trotter (Jan 19, 2014)

Connect the expansion tank under the air seperator(or close to it), hanging down so that you dont get heat migration into the tank (which will dissolve the bladder over time). If you have room to have the tank about 2 feet from the supply it will last 5-10 years ( depending on the water you put in). Those old tanks are bad for the system you are installing. Over time the air in the tank will be absorded into the system and vented off( leaving no room for expansion/ relief will start to blow off). If you are using black pipe there will always be corrosion because of the oxygen from that tank. Radiant heating hates absorbed oxygen


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## Tony trotter (Jan 19, 2014)

Radiant heating hates absorded air*


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

Did you look into doing this as a full primary/secondary setup? Looks like you are halfway there...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumb1bob said:


> I always thought bladder style expansion tank would protect system from air pockets in the system when off for the season. Maybe in Canada your heating system doesn't sit idle as long. With old fashioned tank type systems, If the tank gets waterlogged, where does the air go? It doesn't disappear, extrol tank and purge valves can keep me home in cold weather, not out after hours for a service call.


Where did the air go? Due to improper tank pipings and improper pump location on system


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Tony trotter said:


> Connect the expansion tank under the air seperator(or close to it), hanging down so that you dont get heat migration into the tank (which will dissolve the bladder over time). If you have room to have the tank about 2 feet from the supply it will last 5-10 years ( depending on the water you put in). Those old tanks are bad for the system you are installing. Over time the air in the tank will be absorded into the system and vented off( leaving no room for expansion/ relief will start to blow off). If you are using black pipe there will always be corrosion because of the oxygen from that tank. Radiant heating hates absorbed oxygen


Coughs,coughs.. nope, not if you use the proper tank fittings, air will not asborbs into water


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Welcome back rj!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> Welcome back rj!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks..


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