# I am spent.



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm really just too mentally drained to bother with posting pictures on this one.

Got 5 calls this morning while I was out working on another job (forgot to forward the phone calls today) from a FRANTIC lady, freaking out that their house is brand new and I just did the plumbing in there, and there's a leak in the powder room coming out from under the wall. She's saying things like "The copper pipe came apart in the wall" and "water gushing everywhere" along with some other comments about how i should have my phone in my pocket at all times. 

At this point I was ready to have a heart attack, so I took a couple minutes to compose myself and called back. The water was off, and nobody had opened the wall. At that point I figured out that she was just having a freak out session on my machine.

I got there and told her that solder fittings don't normally just "come apart" in the wall, and it's more likely that someone hit it with a nail while putting on the baseboard.

She was a little snotty and said "Well we've never had that happen, so we will see."

Before I even opened the wall i went on the other side in the hallway and measured the baseboard where i could see the crappy putty job on the nail heads and sure enough, the top nail on their 8" base moulding was dead center on the pipe. Missed the stud by about 2". Tape measure doesn't lie and there was a nail right into the copper.

These are the kinds of things that I could do without. :vs_laugh:

Then after it was all over it's like we were best friends and she chatted my ear off for an hour.



Thanks for being my place to rant, PlumbingZone.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

With an attitude like that I wouldn't stick around after the job done. Psycho once, psycho twice. I deal with enough wackos I don't need verbal abuse.

Good story.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

I sure hope you give her a bill for the time spend there then.

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

The Dane said:


> I sure hope you give her a bill for the time spend there then.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


depends on who hired him to do the plumbing..if the contractor that nailed the pipe hired him , he gets the bill, if she ( homeowner) hired contractor she gets a bill...


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

> Before I even opened the wall i went on the other side in the hallway and measured the baseboard where i could see the crappy putty job on the nail heads and sure enough, the top nail on their 8" base moulding was dead center on the pipe. Missed the stud by about 2". Tape measure doesn't lie and there was a nail right into the copper.


That's when Mr Friendly leaves and Mr Direct enters. I like to give their exact words right back to them, minus the hysteria; "YOU may have never had this happen before in the few houses you have owned, but in MY experience as a plumber I see it all the time."

I have done it, but I don't ususally give them the chance to get all friendly with me once they have shown themselves once, even after I prove them wrong. From then on it is short, to the point answers and statements. If it's one thing that I hate it is when people make assumptions. If there is something I hate more it is people who make assumptions and then get irrationally emotional and hysterical based on it. The media and the government would have us believe that their ideals about diversity, inclusion and equality are the right way to go, but there was a lot to be said for the natural order of things where the (non-emotional) husband (a man) dealt with those kinds of issues, and the wife (a woman) knew her place and concentrated on those things that she knew about and did well.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

goeswiththeflow said:


> That's when Mr Friendly leaves and Mr Direct enters. I like to give their exact words right back to them, minus the hysteria; "YOU may have never had this happen before in the few houses you have owned, but in MY experience as a plumber I see it all the time."
> 
> I have done it, but I don't ususally give them the chance to get all friendly with me once they have shown themselves once, even after I prove them wrong. From then on it is short, to the point answers and statements. If it's one thing that I hate it is when people make assumptions. If there is something I hate more it is people who make assumptions and then get irrationally emotional and hysterical based on it. The media and the government would have us believe that their ideals about diversity, inclusion and equality are the right way to go, but there was a lot to be said for the natural order of things where the (non-emotional) husband (a man) dealt with those kinds of issues, and the wife (a woman) knew her place and concentrated on those things that she knew about and did well.




Yes assumptions, the assume because you fixed something or installed something the whole house is guaranteed. Or you installed a kitchen faucet and they blame you that the drain clogged a few days later(she had poured coffee grinds). 

I remember that woman was insulting me all the way. Now I know next time, she wasn't pleasant the first time with price complaints throughout and passive aggressive games. That's why I bring only my workorder and flashlight to gauge their demeanor, I've turned around once on scene. I hate verbal violence even when it's so subtle and don't realize it until they explode at the bill. The next person who starts smack right in the door I'm out.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

goeswiththeflow said:


> That's when Mr Friendly leaves and Mr Direct enters. I like to give their exact words right back to them, minus the hysteria; "YOU may have never had this happen before in the few houses you have owned, but in MY experience as a plumber I see it all the time."
> 
> I have done it, but I don't ususally give them the chance to get all friendly with me once they have shown themselves once, even after I prove them wrong. From then on it is short, to the point answers and statements. If it's one thing that I hate it is when people make assumptions. If there is something I hate more it is people who make assumptions and then get irrationally emotional and hysterical based on it. The media and the government would have us believe that their ideals about diversity, inclusion and equality are the right way to go, but there was a lot to be said for the natural order of things where the (non-emotional) husband (a man) dealt with those kinds of issues, and the wife (a woman) knew her place and concentrated on those things that she knew about and did well.





well, I have had this scenario dozens of times from both male and female customers..and to a point I can see where the frustration comes from....
you buy or have build a new house or extension, spend a BIG buck on it and now you have to cut open new walls to fix new stuff somebody damaged....emotionally its a giant hit to whats suppose to be a happy moment you looked forward to for a long time...
all you want to do is vent and get satisfaction...so if its water you automatically blame the plumber, if a cracked sheet rock you blame the sheet rocker( even though its the carpenters fault for the framing, and it goes on down the line...
and most of the times its some one that put a nail in a pipe or some one cut a pipe when putting in a vent or something else through a wall..
I tell people when I get there and they start the barrage of comments of look what you did to my home..that I dont have ex ray vision and till I open the wall we wont know what happen or why and if you continue your ranting or yelling , you will be doing it yourself when I leave in ten seconds..then they usually quiet down..
then when open and I show a nail or some other damage done to the plumbing causing the leak, they become very apologetic and friendly..
but that is human nature..and many times they become a good customer...
now if they continue to rant and rave at me after I show them the cause and it wasnt my doing, I fix it fast and get out and then bill the appropriate party and dont have anymore contact with that home owner...
heres an example we all can relate to..
you buy a brand new truck from the dealer and 3 weeks later the motor takes a dump...whose fault??? not the sales man at the dealer, not the mechanic or any other employee at the dealer, they didnt build it, they just fix it..but you want to yell at anyone that will listen..why..because your pissed as hell and want to vent..but these are the people that are going to fix your truck and get it going again( hopefully) ..so its mostly psychological and emotional that you yell at the dealer even though no one there had anything todo with causing the engine to take a dump in your truck...


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> well, I have had this scenario dozens of times from both male and female customers..and to a point I can see where the frustration comes from....
> you buy or have build a new house or extension, spend a BIG buck on it and now you have to cut open new walls to fix new stuff somebody damaged....emotionally its a giant hit to whats suppose to be a happy moment you looked forward to for a long time...
> all you want to do is vent and get satisfaction...so if its water you automatically blame the plumber, if a cracked sheet rock you blame the sheet rocker( even though its the carpenters fault for the framing, and it goes on down the line...
> and most of the times its some one that put a nail in a pipe or some one cut a pipe when putting in a vent or something else through a wall..
> ...


Totally 100% this. I am pretty empathetic, so I get where she was coming from. On the other hand, and apology after the fact would have been nice. :vs_laugh:

She went on to tell me about dozens of mistakes other people made on the project and how she won't recommend them to any of the people buying the lots on the hill.

She asked her husband who they were getting to repair the sheetrock and when he named the guy who installed the baseboard, she just about lost her ****. I could tell he was annoyed and I explained to her, that if you had told him there was a pipe in that stud bay and gave him 16 nails, he couldn't have hit it if he tried. Basically he won the lottery. She seemed to relax a bit after that although she was still frustrated.

I also took the opportunity to shine a big spotlight on this example of why you should shut off your water if you're out of town.

**** happens. Do you think you can build a house of that magnitude without each person making at least one mistake? Especially when you are generalling your own home? Gimme a break.

She even made mistakes on a couple of my billings and they turned in one draw early without telling me they were doing so. I had to wait 60 days for an invoice on that draw. That hurts a little bit when your business is small and new.

**** happens.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

so how much damage was done by this nail??? 
And who got to pay for all the damage if their was a substantial amount????


I suppose you told her that your horse was not in this race??? 

I know you both became best buddies and had your freinds hats on but what or whom got charged for this emergency plumbing call that you did today???

Surely you did not do this call for free??

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I had some thing similar happen to me probably 20 years ago with a new home we just did.... The lady came home and found the place flooded from one of the home to the other on the first floor..... 

The builder turned off the water at the meter and called us asap... I call the lady and she curses at me on the phone... I get to the home and she has a grand piano in the living room sitting on a carpet totally saturated with water.. I step in the door on the carpet and it sends a wave like a tsunami across the room and shakes her curio cabinets on the other side of the living room...

The lady was so mad she could not look at me, and she told me that the flood was behind her washing machine........ I knew exactly what happenned and shut off the stops at the box and went outside and turned on the water......... no leaks.....

I did a really bad thing that day, :devil3: 

I showed her that her old hose and blown apart going to the washing machine and told her that if her husband would not have been such a tight wad and bought some new braided hoses for 20 bucks all this trouble could have been avoided.....

I threw the husband under the bus.....:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::devil3::devil3:


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> so how much damage was done by this nail???
> And who got to pay for all the damage if their was a substantial amount????


To my relief, she was making a much bigger deal of it than it had to be. When I was finished, she told me she had to use 8 bath towels to soak up the water. Really not much damage at all. About a 12" diameter wet spot around the pipe penetration of the subfloor. The mess probably would have been contained to the bathroom if they had bothered to caulk the baseboards to the floor. There's about a 1/4" gap underneath them all so the water just flies right through it and under the wall into the hallway.

She was just so beside herself that they worked so hard to get this building dried in before the rain and now it's ruined. 

No, I don't work for free, she'll be receiving a bill today, and then they are gonna pay me to come back and reinstall the sink after the drywall is fixed.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Alan said:


> These are the kinds of things that I could do without. :vs_laugh:





Tango said:


> With an attitude like that I wouldn't stick around after the job done. Psycho once, psycho twice. I deal with enough wackos I don't need verbal abuse.
> 
> Good story.





Some of our most well paying customers are the pita ones that no one else wants to touch. They know they are a pita and we give it to them straight. We are large enough that if they really worry us we send them to our collections lawyer :biggrin:



We even still do work for one woman who tried to sue us. The last time I was there she had just had her driveway redone and the fedex guy turned his wheels tight, like a kid on his bike ruining hank hills lawn, and made tons of scrape marks in the soft pavement. Boy do I feel bad for that driver/fedex customer support representative on the other end of that phone. 










.


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

> We even still do work for one woman who tried to sue us.


That's just crazy. Eff her, I say.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

goeswiththeflow said:


> That's just crazy. Eff her, I say.



you would think so..but money is money..the problem clients get billed at a MUCH higher rate to compensate for the troubles..it may sound crazy, but when you make a much bigger profit it pays off..most of the PITA customers know most wont put up with their $hit and when they need work they know its gona cost them big...so some one has to make the money and make it worth their while for putting up with the wackos..it come down to a love/hate relationship...


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> you would think so..but money is money..the problem clients get billed at a MUCH higher rate to compensate for the troubles..it may sound crazy, but when you make a much bigger profit it pays off..most of the PITA customers know most wont put up with their $hit and when they need work they know its gona cost them big...so some one has to make the money and make it worth their while for putting up with the wackos..it come down to a love/hate relationship...


Not only that, but chances are that if the lawsuit didn't stick, most of these sue-happy people will probably think twice about doing it again especially if you still answer their calls after the fact.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> That's just crazy. Eff her, I say.





She's on her best behavior. All the other companies know her history. We actually show up when she calls. She doesn't have a choice. We don't charge "extra", but we certainly don't give her any breaks either. Every single fitting, pex ring, zip tie.














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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

My mentor had a code for that, when he would give us a job over the radio
he would say that was a code 3 which meant charge extra, which did not hurt people too much as he had the lowest prices in that town :biggrin:


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

To each his own. We all have our limits, and mine is being disrespected. There are more important things than money sometimes. I'm not some 20 year old kid who can be pushed around. I don't treat people badly without cause, and I won't be treated that way by anyone. It's great to jack up the bill to try to compensate, and get some small satisfaction that way, even if the money goes to the company not me, but often I don't know in advance that they are going to be A-holes until after they have been given a quote and/or already paid. Even if they know you are the only one who will work for them, with a presumed price tag to compensate, that gives them even more of a sense of entitlement IMO. 

Those of you who want to deal with them after knowing how they are can take those jobs, and think that you're making out by rationalizing it any way you want. More power to you. I'll go on to the next job and still have a full work schedule doing jobs where there is mutual respect, or at minimum no disrespect. In my area there is no shortage of work, but there is of plumbers, and it is very nice to show up to a job and have them tell you how appreciative they are for you to come out. Why the hell would I knowingly work for those other people?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

goeswiththeflow said:


> To each his own. We all have our limits, and mine is being disrespected. There are more important things than money sometimes. I'm not some 20 year old kid who can be pushed around. I don't treat people badly without cause, and I won't be treated that way by anyone. It's great to jack up the bill to try to compensate, and get some small satisfaction that way, even if the money goes to the company not me, but often I don't know in advance that they are going to be A-holes until after they have been given a quote and/or already paid. Even if they know you are the only one who will work for them, with a presumed price tag to compensate, that gives them even more of a sense of entitlement IMO.
> 
> Those of you who want to deal with them after knowing how they are can take those jobs, and think that you're making out by rationalizing it any way you want. More power to you. I'll go on to the next job and still have a full work schedule doing jobs where there is mutual respect, or at minimum no disrespect. In my area there is no shortage of work, but there is of plumbers, and it is very nice to show up to a job and have them tell you how appreciative they are for you to come out. Why the hell would I knowingly work for those other people?




I feel the same way, I will never work for someone who is disrespectful or insults me again for a few reasons ; 

1) I get angry for a while and it ruins my weekend with my GF.
2) By going there again you've just showed them you are weak and they'll trample you even more.
3) By charging more you are setting yourself up for trouble because you just gave them ammunition to go after you for fraud.
4) They can and WILL file a complaint with or without overcharging to SEVERAL governmental entities and then you have fight your way out and prove your innocence. That's right you have to prove your innocence! This creates even more turmoil, dozens of hours of paperwork, lost time and possible going to court.

Another thing if you start work for a trouble maker you are bound to finish the job. You just can't walk out and leave because they'll win a nice fat check from you for damages and a punitive amount.

Keep your wackos I want no part of it!!


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

goeswiththeflow said:


> To each his own. We all have our limits, and mine is being disrespected. There are more important things than money sometimes. I'm not some 20 year old kid who can be pushed around. I don't treat people badly without cause, and I won't be treated that way by anyone. It's great to jack up the bill to try to compensate, and get some small satisfaction that way, even if the money goes to the company not me, but often I don't know in advance that they are going to be A-holes until after they have been given a quote and/or already paid. Even if they know you are the only one who will work for them, with a presumed price tag to compensate, that gives them even more of a sense of entitlement IMO.
> 
> Those of you who want to deal with them after knowing how they are can take those jobs, and think that you're making out by rationalizing it any way you want. More power to you. I'll go on to the next job and still have a full work schedule doing jobs where there is mutual respect, or at minimum no disrespect. In my area there is no shortage of work, but there is of plumbers, and it is very nice to show up to a job and have them tell you how appreciative they are for you to come out. Why the hell would I knowingly work for those other people?





like I said before, if they come around and apologize for their first rant because they did not know the reason for the leak I will do work for them, but even after I show it had nothing todo with me and they continue their rant and disrespect , they can go fuk themselves...and as owner of my company I will not hold back and give them an earful and rip them a new one..what are they gona do? complain to me how I spoke to them..LOL and if I dont care about any further business then its adios and I dont care...
but MOST of the time once the people see it wasnt my fault they realize how they acted and correct their way..and again, for the mental aided that continue, I give them the option of shutting up so I can do the repair or leave and they can go scratch...
then I usually have 100% compliance...and the contractor gets the bill since they hire me and they nailed or damaged my plumbing work...
sometimes you have to eat a little $hit to get to the prize..and if your so thin skinned to let a customer bother you..and get butt hurt and be mad all day you lose..
if your an employee, maybe its a different feeling, and you cant tell the people where to go....hopefully your boss will back you up..


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tango said:


> I feel the same way, I will never work for someone who is disrespectful or insults me again for a few reasons ;
> 
> 1) I get angry for a while and it ruins my weekend with my GF.
> 2) By going there again you've just showed them you are weak and they'll trample you even more.
> ...


Thinking that I did not mind diversity, and wanting to be more politically correct, I used to advertise on the gay pages, but after a couple of seriously extra strange people called me I decided not to re-up again for the advertising on their site...... 

the vibe is just too bizarre and I also got the feeling from one person that " he or she" was just waiting to pounce on me for something said or done to justify a bad review on social media...... 
I also got the feeling from another one they had some kind of plumber fantasy thing going on in their minds....Tthats when things got real strange and I headed for the door pronto fast.... .

We do have a lot of gay customers, but I just decided not to fly the rainbow flag and attract the real strange fruit-flies if you know what I am saying.....:surprise:.


Also you can usually tell on the phone the general attitude of a customer if they start barking orders at you about things...... I normally just tell them I am booked up until next friday and politely say I am sorry....

straight or not I am not putting up with a bunch of bs.... money is money but their is a limit to what I will tolerate .......

Go check out this nut.---- so how would you like to work for this boy...probably got pictures of cows hanging on his bedroom walls.....
This could be a real mooooving experience.............

https://nypost.com/2019/10/11/nj-man-allegedly-threatened-farmers-who-denied-him-sex-with-animals/


and you thought you had seen and heard it all lol

...


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Master Mark said:


> Thinking that I did not mind diversity, and wanting to be more politically correct, I used to advertise on the gay pages, but after a couple of seriously extra strange people called me I decided not to re-up again for the advertising on their site......
> 
> the vibe is just too bizarre and I also got the feeling from one person that " he or she" was just waiting to pounce on me for something said or done to justify a bad review on social media......
> I also got the feeling from another one they had some kind of plumber fantasy thing going on in their minds....(thats when things got real strange) ..
> ...





.........................


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> .........................



The experience I had was not with a lady but with some strange tall gay guy who had pictures of naked guys hanging all over his kitchen wall when I arrived...............:surprise::vs_OMG:.

I dont know what he thought was gonna happen , but He excused himself for some reason to go to the bathroom--what he was doing only god knows for sure.... :surprise:

When I focused on the pictures, I realized that I was in trouble I got the hell out of there before he came out of the bathroom with a one eyed stiff one staring at me.....:surprise: :vs_whistle:

.... Also, .the scary creepy thought occurred to me that their could be a few more fellas in the home and I might be outnumbered --:vs_whistle:-:vs_whistle::vs_OMG:

I always take either a big mag light like the police use into the home with me or a heavy pair of channel locks... 

--


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Master Mark said:


> The experience I had was not with a lady but with some strange tall gay guy who had pictures of naked guys hanging all over his kitchen wall when I arrived...............:surprise::vs_OMG:.
> 
> I dont know what he thought was gonna happen , but He excused himself for some reason to go to the bathroom--what he was doing only god knows for sure.... :surprise:
> 
> ...





he wanted to get fluxed in the a$$..he heard plumbers have big rigid pipes and wanted to see for himself.....LMAO..


I went to college for air conditioning engineering technology....and was working with an A/C guy that lived in the same area I did, but most of his work was in new york city, and he had a bunch of gay bars as customers..so when we went the first time to one( first time for me) he said they are decent guys but they may just mess with me for fun, dont take it the wrong way...
over the course of working with him for about a year, we did alot of repairs in the gay bars and never had any issue with the owners or workers, they were easy going and sometimes would joke around by saying they dropped something on the floor can you pick it up for me, but it was all in fun and they had some good bank accounts to pay the bills with...
then when I started my own business some of my best customers were in the gay community....just show them respect and dont rip them off and they were loyal customers that recommended many others, and they all seemed to have big disposable incomes...all money is green and thats all I cared about..not where or who it came from ....

like everyone else your gona have the wack jobs no matter what their sexual orientation is....
maybe they just like your legs , wearing those shorts all the time...:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> Why the hell would I knowingly work for those other people?





Because you're not running a shop of 30 guys. We have no shortage of work either but small fluctuations can create openings and leave a couple hours empty. When each guy is paid 40hrs/week regardless having them come back to the shop for a couple hours and "clean out their truck" adds up at jman/master rates. If some A hole calls for service they are handed to our office manager who also handles debt collection and they are given the "You've been a non-paying a hole to us before" speech and they usually act compliant after that.



It also helps we enforce our 200$ credit hold for new customers on the a holes every time. If you're a normal customer we just send the bill out when we get around to it a week or two later and then give you a couple weeks to pay before we call/email or re-mail it.












.


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## spanplum (Jul 3, 2016)

Please be kind to me, I am a member. was a plumber and heating engineer in the UK, now retired for 28 years, and my first post on here.
I was woken up telephone ringing, picked it up, the voice said it is your fault my house was almost burnt down.
When I got there sure enough the fire had ben put out in the basement where the oil boiler was, the fire man said not your fault, the fire valve controls had shut the oil off, the door was blown open when the boiler controls went faulty.
The owner had put a pile of newspapers in front of the door, on the newspapers, a jam jar with white spirit cleaning a paint brush, in front of the newspapers a pile of wood kindling to dry to light the living fire, 6ft in front of all that a 600 gallon tank full of kerosene.
The tank was too hot to touch,these people was so lucky.
She did say sorry to me , and because we were in UK made a cup of tea.
What I forgot the next neighbour was a fireman, the only reason they did not die was he come home off shift and seen the smoke coming out of the basement garage.
I am now.waiting the onslaught


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

spanplum said:


> Please be kind to me, I am a member. was a plumber and heating engineer in the UK, now retired for 28 years, and my first post on here.
> I was woken up telephone ringing, picked it up, the voice said it is your fault my house was almost burnt down.
> When I got there sure enough the fire had ben put out in the basement where the oil boiler was, the fire man said not your fault, the fire valve controls had shut the oil off, the door was blown open when the boiler controls went faulty.
> The owner had put a pile of newspapers in front of the door, on the newspapers, a jam jar with white spirit cleaning a paint brush, in front of the newspapers a pile of wood kindling to dry to light the living fire, 6ft in front of all that a 600 gallon tank full of kerosene.
> ...



this is not your first post..you joined in 2016 and did a proper intro, so all is good :smile:
did you do the install of the boiler?


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