# Carbon monoxide at mall



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

What happens when untrained people work on gas fixtures

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=9441847

1 dead 9 overcome by CARBON MONOXIDE


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

HEATING VENT PROBLEM

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=9441847


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Feb 22, 2014)

You don't know that it was anything to do with unqualified workers. You don't normally see unqualified workers on commercial jobs. 

In a couple of weeks the report will come out. I'm guessing it was a housekeeping issue or physically blocked flue.

Small petty people have small petty Gods.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

jigs-n-fixtures said:


> You don't know that it was anything to do with unqualified workers. You don't normally see unqualified workers on commercial jobs.
> 
> In a couple of weeks the report will come out. I'm guessing it was a housekeeping issue or physically blocked flue.
> 
> Small petty people have small petty Gods.


So you are saying it was a trained engineer that missed up the vent ?

housekeeping usually don't work on boiler or heater vent piping


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## plumber tim (Jul 4, 2013)

I wouldn't be surprised to hear it was vented in PVC. Hot water temp required in restaurants in many cases is 180. Power vented heater with PVC failure possible ?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

That's terrible. Even the cops and rescue workers who showed up were getting dizzy. Carbon monoxide is deadly, that's why I use a carbon monoxide detector and tell my customers to install a carbon monoxide detector in their homes if they have gas-burning appliances.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I don't know how many of you guys receive Plumbing & Mechanical magazine, but in the issue I got yesterday {Feb 2014} there is an article entitled "Boilers recalled due to carbon monoxide poisoning hazards."

There is an air pressure switch that can fail to shut down the burners when a blockage occurs in the vent system which allows the boilers to emit excessive amounts of carbon monoxide and posing a CO poisoning hazard to the consumer.

visit www.PMmag.com for further information.http://www.PMmag.com


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## jigs-n-fixtures (Feb 22, 2014)

JERRYMAC said:


> So you are saying it was a trained engineer that missed up the vent ? housekeeping usually don't work on boiler or heater vent piping


No. I'm saying that we don't know. And, we shouldn't be casting blame until we do. 

Lots of things can happen once an installer walks out the door. The whole problem could have been caused by snow/ice on the roof that covered or damaged the vent pipe. Or, somebody may have knocked the vent pipe loose so it wasn't venting. I'm a long ways over the horizon and certainly can't see it from here. 

Until the official report comes out it is premature to say it was caused by improper installation. That may be the final conclusion. At this time nobody knows, that hasn't been there to look at it. 

We can't say definitely what the issue is.

Small petty people have small petty Gods.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

My first thought was insufficient make-up air; those restaurant kitchen exhaust fans pull a lot of air, combine that with a water heater that's likely in its own little room where that's supposed to be isolated from the airspace of the kitchen, but someone blocks the door open......

I prefer where the utility room is inaccessible from inside, and has it's own door to the outside: they tend to get less traffic and clutter from the general staff and no one can create a dangerous condition simply by propping the door open.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Water Heater Flue!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/23/justice/new-york-carbon-monoxide-poisoning/index.html?hpt=us_c1


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

I have always wondered why the flue diverters on water heaters are so flimsy. 
Four 1/4" tabs resting on four holes on the top of the water heater. Some brands don't even notch them to lock in. Years ago some brands had two tabs with set screws at least. How much more would it cost the manufacturer to have the tabs on the diverter legs attach to the heater with sheet metal screws?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Water Heater Flue!
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/23/justice/new-york-carbon-monoxide-poisoning/index.html?hpt=us_c1












Red, you're a volunteer fireman aren't you? Among emergency responders, who takes the lead in checking for CO? Police, paramedics or firefighters?

News reports always leave out alot of details from the story.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> Red, you're a volunteer fireman aren't you? Among emergency responders, who takes the lead in checking for CO? Police, paramedics or firefighters?
> 
> News reports always leave out alot of details from the story.


In ours the Fire & Fire Rescue carried meters, they also have the air-paks...
Police & Ambulance would stay outside until the scene was safe for them to enter...
There shouldn't have been anyone getting dizzy inside as far as the responders...
Incident Command failure...


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## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

In ontario a high efficiency furnace can get fresh air from inside the basement as long as not finished but you have to exhaust bad air outside
I'm doing this plumbing job in a ladies house just installing a new toilet and vanity, she asks me to look at her windows saying she just got them replaced a year ago and they are already breaking down (tons of condensation on the inside and in between the two sheets of glass) I look at her furnace and there it is getting fresh air from outside and exhausting the fumes inside the basement the idiot mixed the two up ! (That's why there is so much condensation) I looked at the install date tag and it's been there for there years! I felt horrible but I have a gas license and by law i had to turn off her gas and notify the utility, I hope they go after that guy and he's lucky nobody ever got hurt


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

In the years I have been plumbing I have been asked 
probably a dozen times to install a *used commercial* 
*water heater* in a basement of a restraunts or hotels....


I had a tight wad that drove to some auction and got a
100 gallon A.o.smith gas heater and drove it 75 miles 
down to indy on its back in a pick up truck for 300 bucks.. It got all banged up on the trip rolling around in the bed....:laughing:

He felt that he got a sweet deal and wanted me to install this peice of junk...I looked at the banged up heater and laughed at him and told him he was nuts.....


Another time someone named Patel wanted me to install 2 Smith sand hog heaters he got used into his hotel mechanical room... they both had lime and stains all over them and looked 
like they came out of a junk yard.. :laughing: 
 He claimed that they were just torn out of another hotel and were working fine..



both times I honestly did not beilive that the units would fire up safely and I would be spending my week trying to find parts for the junk.... 


I dont need the liability in a public building cause it will come back to me eventually.......Being the professional, I should have known better than to rig up some used peice of junk ...and I would get my ass sued off..



The whole story is probably not over or out yet , I would be willing to bet money somethin g fishey went on here andthat he was overcame while he was attempting to get the peice of junk to burn correctly


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

It was probably 15 years old and looked something like this one out of another thread here....










But it's still working and we don't have any plumbing problems... Why waste money calling a plumber? Get those meals served!


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> It was probably 15 years old and looked something like this one out of another thread here....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
in some restraunts I have been , the top of that heater could have been used for a food warmer......


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