# How Did We Ever Get By Without Cameras?



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

I took a call today, late Sunday afternoon, very typical. Just as I'm easing into my Sunday, shopping for a new BBQ grill, I get a request for service, a main sewer clog.

I took all the customer info, and headed off. Of course, he's a little taken aback by our price, as we package a cable clear, camera, and locate package for around $600 with our service call. He's had the problem before, he tells me, and the "solution" has been much less, but gives me the go ahead anyway.

After restoring flow, I send the camera down the first time, showing him the massive root intrusion. I cabled the area again, with a larger cutter, and camera'd again, showing him the improvement. Once again with cutter and camera, and I'm done.

We'll soon excavate and repair a problem section, and he'll never have a problem again. He asks me, why doesn't everybody do it this way?

How did we ever get by without cameras? locators? jetters? Micro brews?


----------



## kentdmo (Dec 15, 2008)

modern tools aren't they great


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> I took a call today, late Sunday afternoon, very typical. Just as I'm easing into my Sunday, shopping for a new BBQ grill, I get a request for service, a main sewer clog.
> 
> I took all the customer info, and headed off. Of course, he's a little taken aback by our price, as we package a cable clear, camera, and locate package for around $600 with our service call. He's had the problem before, he tells me, and the "solution" has been much less, but gives me the go ahead anyway.
> 
> ...


Did it surprise you the sewer had roots in it?


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I think his point was that now a’days we actually fix the underlying cause of stoppages because of the ability to find the cause. We used to just cable the line and say "see ya in another 6-12 months".

I agree that cameras have revolutionized the drain cleaning industry. I have found that most of the time there is a clog, it's from a problem with the line. Sure there are some calls where something was flushed down that shouldn't have been flushed but in at least 1/2 the cases it's because of a pipe problem (belly, backpitch, crushed line, rotted out cast iron, Scaled up cast iron, bubbled/crushed orangeburg, grease buildup).

We can now fix the disease, not just the symptom.



TheMaster said:


> Did it surprise you the sewer had roots in it?


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> I think his point was that now a’days we actually fix the underlying cause of stoppages because of the ability to find the cause. We used to just cable the line and say "see ya in another 6-12 months".
> 
> I agree that cameras have revolutionized the drain cleaning industry. I have found that most of the time there is a clog, it's from a problem with the line. Sure there are some calls where something was flushed down that shouldn't have been flushed but in at least 1/2 the cases it's because of a pipe problem (belly, backpitch, crushed line, rotted out cast iron, Scaled up cast iron, bubbled/crushed orangeburg, grease buildup).
> 
> We can now fix the disease, not just the symptom.


Yeah the majority of the sewers I have cleaned the pipe had some sort of problem too. Good to know others have had the same experience.


----------



## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

before camera's we use to dig allot:whistling2:


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

Protech said:


> I agree that cameras have revolutionized the drain cleaning industry
> 
> Well said.
> 
> ...


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I have been considering purchasing a camera/locater. They defintiely have their place. 

There have been quite a few times a location would be helpful.

The camera would also be nice for CYA of completed jobs.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> Protech said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that cameras have revolutionized the drain cleaning industry
> ...


----------



## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> Palama said:
> 
> 
> > Well I wish he would explain it to me because i dont see cleaning a sewer the same as a surgeon operating on a person. You dont need a camera to clean a sewer if you know how to use a sewer machine and have some experience.
> ...


----------



## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Well I wish he would explain it to me because i dont see cleaning a sewer the same as a surgeon operating on a person. You dont need a camera to clean a sewer if you know how to use a sewer machine and have some experience.




You don't, but considering the number of gas line and power lines that are trenched through a sewer, a camera can be a real lifesaver. Or you can find that belly in the line where the line keeps stopping up under the slab.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> You don't, but considering the number of gas line and power lines that are trenched through a sewer, a camera can be a real lifesaver. Or you can find that belly in the line where the line keeps stopping up under the slab.


Ssshhhh...

It might save his customer some T&M...:laughing:


----------



## MajorPlumbing (Apr 20, 2010)

CAMERA FTW!............:thumbup:


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> You don't, but considering the number of gas line and power lines that are trenched through a sewer, a camera can be a real lifesaver. Or you can find that belly in the line where the line keeps stopping up under the slab.


Ok next the next sewer you go cable I want you to put your camera down there first to make sure theres no gas line or power lines ran through the pipe:whistling2:


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I have cheap camera..works ok..the good ones with locater are so expensive. This area is largely septic systems so the r.o.i. isnt so great..the tool is cool though.


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> Palama said:
> 
> 
> > Well I wish he would explain it to me because i dont see cleaning a sewer the same as a surgeon operating on a person. You dont need a camera to clean a sewer if you know how to use a sewer machine and have some experience.
> ...


----------



## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

If you aren't using a camera for drain cleaning, you are cheating your customers. Plain and simple.


----------



## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

I thought I knew what was going on inside a sewer when cleaning it- until I got a camera.

It confirmed a few theories and proved me dead wrong on others.


----------



## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

My cameras and locators are my favorite tools. Twenty years ago we use to do a lot of sports digging. Today there is just no need to if you own the proper equipment. If all you are worried about is a routine stoppage and you and the customer like seeing each other on a regular basis don't worry about a camera. However, when you work on all of the jobs the other guy couldn't get or if you want to help the customer make an informed decision then you need a camera.

Mark


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SPH said:


> If you aren't using a camera for drain cleaning, you are cheating your customers. Plain and simple.


What kinda camera cleans the drain...I would like one. I guess meanwhile i will use a sewer cleaning machine.:whistling2:


----------



## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Ok next the next sewer you go cable I want you to put your camera down there first to make sure theres no gas line or power lines ran through the pipe:whistling2:


Dude, you talks so much chit, I don't know why I even bother with you.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Dude, you talks so much chit, I don't know why I even bother with you.


Oh no ....You claim its unsafe to clean a sewer because of gas lines or power lines that may have been bored through the pipe.

Do you first run your camera down the drain to make sure thats not the case? if not I understand and dont blame ya but you made the post I didn't.


----------



## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Oh no ....You claim its unsafe to clean a sewer because of gas lines or power lines that may have been bored through the pipe.
> 
> Do you first run your camera down the drain to make sure thats not the case? if not I understand and dont blame ya but you made the post I didn't.



I never said "it's unsafe", but it is a risk.

Of course I don't run the camera in the drain before I rod it, but I can check a line after I establish flow before I get aggressive and bore a hole into a gas line. DUH!


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> There might not be any "explaining" that would work for you, TM. You seem to have misread the analogy, to begin with. The issue here is working with or without a blindfold... If you're treating sewer blockages without a camera, you are working blindfolded. You can't even say you're "cleaning" sewers can you? because without a camera, you can't verify what you've done.
> 
> The fact is, I can do a better job cleaning a line than anyone attempting the same job without a camera. Every time.
> 
> And with my camera, I can prove it.


Hey I have some valuable information for you. Cameras dont clean sewers ok. 

Do you run a camera down a lavatory drain after you clean it...how about a K-sink drain aftr you clean those...do you run your camera down it? Do you run a camera down EVERY drain you clean? 

Sure you dont because its not needed unless there is a repeating problem without a known cause. You use your camera to sell jobs....and thats fine but its not needed to clean a sewer.

Maybe you need to look at every sewer after you clean it but a professional that knows how to use his equipment and takes the time run the entire drain and let the machine have time to clean the pipe.

Your original post is in the form of a question. Dont get pissed when you get the answer to the question you asked. You dont need a camera unless theres a problem with clearing the line and/or the customer is considering repairing it.


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Off topic, but funny. My buddy works for the Sewerage authority, and does the markouts. So he is called to mark out a forced main. It had been slip lined the previous year, to the tune of a million bucks. 

So, he rolls up, and the po-po have a guy stopped, right where he has to mark the line. So he figures he'll swing by in a little bit, when the cops are done. 

The tard forgets to go back. So the gas company comes the next day and bores a gas line right through the pipe:laughing:. He still does not know how he kept his job. 

Anyway. The camera definetly has its place. I have recently purchased one, and the customers appreciate it. The last one, I was able to show them the cracked clay curb trap. I was asked how we would have diagnosed it before the days of cameras, and told her we would have just started digging. 

Another customer called a couple of weeks ago. The neighbors told him that the o'berg sewer at his house was replaced years ago, but he wasn't sure if it really was. We went over and made him a nice DVD, the sewer wasn't so bad, but the next day he called and scheduled a sewer replacement. I even tried to talk him out of it. We are doing it next week. 

Do you need it every time? No. My old employer cleaned more drains than I care to think about, and never had one. But, it erases alot of doubt, and you can prove to the customer that you are competent, and professional, and have the tools and technology to do the job 100%. 

Besides, THEY are paying for it (the camera itself) anyway. :thumbsup:

I've had more than one customer ask how much it cost's. I love the look on their face when I tell them about 15 grand. :yes:


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

For the record I never said a camera wasn't great....I'm simply saying is not needed to clean a sewer properly,the machine does that and not the camera.....nothing more nothing less.


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> Hey I have some valuable information for you. Cameras dont clean sewers ok.
> 
> Do you run a camera down a lavatory drain after you clean it...how about a K-sink drain aftr you clean those...do you run your camera down it? Do you run a camera down EVERY drain you clean?
> 
> ...


No one here has suggested that cameras clean sewers. In my experience, if a sewer is clogged, there is a problem. The camera helps us to identify the problem, so that we can eliminate it.

The fact remains, I will consistantly do a better job of cleaning sewers with this modern equipment than anyone can do without. Like Jed Clampett said, "No brag, just fact".

And finally, I'm not pissed. It's pretty clear that you've got your head jammed firmly up your paradigm. Maybe we could unjam it with a camera?


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> No one here has suggested that cameras clean sewers. In my experience, if a sewer is clogged, there is a problem. The camera helps us to identify the problem, so that we can eliminate it.
> 
> The fact remains, I will consistantly do a better job of cleaning sewers with this modern equipment than anyone can do without. Like Jed Clampett said, "No brag, just fact".
> 
> And finally, I'm not pissed. It's pretty clear that you've got your head jammed firmly up your paradigm. Maybe we could unjam it with a camera?


You may do a better job of looking at a sewer after you clean it...but you dont clean it any better than a professional that wants to take the time to do a proper job.

Paradigm make good loudspeakers you should check them out one day in person.

So are you going to answer my questions about the lavatory and other drains...do you run a camera down them too?....or do you list the description of work on your invoice as..."I think I cleaned the lavatory drain"?


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> What kinda camera cleans the drain...I would like one. I guess meanwhile i will use a sewer cleaning machine.:whistling2:


 A jet cam:whistling2:


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> You may do a better job of looking at a sewer after you clean it...but you dont clean it any better than a professional that wants to take the time to do a proper job.
> 
> Paradigm make good loudspeakers you should check them out one day in person.
> 
> So are you going to answer my questions about the lavatory and other drains...do you run a camera down them too?....or do you list the description of work on your invoice as..."I think I cleaned the lavatory drain"?


A person who works every day in this field without the proper equipment isn't a professional. Probably just a Hack...

I rarely use my camera on kitchen or lav drains. We use a cable to restore flow, but we haven't really cleaned the line at that point... just opened it. For cleaning, we recommend Bio Clean and/or jetting. If the customer requests the hydro jetting, the camera comes out to show before and after results.

Those lines are more likely to clog from regular use (food, grease, hair,soap) than from a problem in the condition of the line, as is most often the case with a sewer. Crushed fittings, crumbling pipe, misaligned sections, cracks, bellies, root intrusions through all of the above... That's why we love the cameras.

The cost of the equipment is covered over and over again in revenue from sewer repairs.


----------



## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

I think TheMaster has camera envy, you should checkout ebay.com maybe you could find a good deal on a used one.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SPH said:


> I think TheMaster has camera envy, you should checkout ebay.com maybe you could find a good deal on a used one.


You think so? I will let you in on a secret. I only need a camera about 2 times a year and I hire it out for 80 bucks a pop. He flatrates it too:laughing:...last one I clocked him and he spent 1.75 hrs with travel to the job. I think i have the camera problem solved for now but thanks for the advice. Yes he has liability insurance and I hold the letter proving it. see ya!!!!


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> You think so? I will let you in on a secret. I only need a camera about 2 times a year and I hire it out for 80 bucks a pop. He flatrates it too:laughing:...last one I clocked him and he spent 1.75 hrs with travel to the job. I think i have the camera problem solved for now but thanks for the advice. Yes he has liability insurance and I hold the letter proving it. see ya!!!!


If you had your flat-rate camera man come out on _*all*_ your sewer cleaning jobs, you could afford to buy your own camera with the additional revenue you'd bring in from all the repairs you'd find.

You'd be providing a more complete, professional service to your clients.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> If you had your flat-rate camera man come out on _*all*_ your sewer cleaning jobs, you could afford to buy your own camera with the additional revenue you'd bring in from all the repairs you'd find.
> 
> You'd be providing a more complete, professional service to your clients.


I could buy 10 cameras ...affording is not the issue its about NEED. I dont need one to clean a sewer,only to inspect if theres an unknown problem or the owners is wanting to repair the bad portion. Most people flat out tell you they dont want or have the money and they would rahter pay to have the drain cabled every now and then. I know I wouldn't repalce my sewer even if a guy had video of how bad it looked if I wasn't having trouble on a regular basis. I would pay to have my drain cleared once a year for 150.00 before i spent thousands to replace it......I might be moving and would rather sell the house as is.


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> I could buy 10 cameras ...affording is not the issue its about NEED. I dont need one to clean a sewer,only to inspect if theres an unknown problem or the owners is wanting to repair the bad portion. Most people flat out tell you they dont want or have the money and they would rahter pay to have the drain cabled every now and then. I know I wouldn't repalce my sewer even if a guy had video of how bad it looked if I wasn't having trouble on a regular basis. I would pay to have my drain cleared once a year for 150.00 before i spent thousands to replace it......I might be moving and would rather sell the house as is.


You don't know what you don't know. A camera could show you.

They'll still be around when you change your mind. Then you can step up to a professional level of service.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> You don't know what you don't know. A camera could show you.
> 
> They'll still be around when you change your mind. Then you can step up to a professional level of service.


Sure I know..when I pull up to a house with orangberg theres no need for the camera...when I roll up on 70 year old clay pipe with roots covering the yard theres no need for a camera. When I dig up cast iron and find the bottom out of the pipe what good is a camera going to do.....show me how bad the rest of the pipe is also? A camera is not needed for the normal drain cleaning job. Your just using your camera to get dig jobs...nothing wrong with that but saying a camera is required to do a proper job is simply not true.

Are you suggesting that i dont not offer professional service unless I use a camera after i clean a drain?


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> Sure I know..when I pull up to a house with orangberg theres no need for the camera...when I roll up on 70 year old clay pipe with roots covering the yard theres no need for a camera. When I dig up cast iron and find the bottom out of the pipe what good is a camera going to do.....show me how bad the rest of the pipe is also? A camera is not needed for the normal drain cleaning job. Your just using your camera to get dig jobs...nothing wrong with that but saying a camera is required to do a proper job is simply not true.
> 
> Are you suggesting that i dont not offer professional service unless I use a camera after i clean a drain?


You may be on the verge of a breakthrough here, TM (but I'm not going to get my hopes up). 

Tackling sewer clogs without a camera was SOP when I did my first one in 1978.

Those methods aren't considered professional anymore; Professionals today equip themselves with cameras, locators, and whatever other technologies are offered to ensure the best possible outcome for their clients.

I can promise you this: If you bought a camera and locator, you would shake your head in wonder that it took you so long to come around. It isn't a question of affordability for _*anyone*_, because the _*additional*_ revenue generated will pay for your equipment before the first year.

Let me know when you get one, and I'll send you a bag of popcorn.:thumbsup:


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> You may be on the verge of a breakthrough here, TM (but I'm not going to get my hopes up).
> 
> Tackling sewer clogs without a camera was SOP when I did my first one in 1978.
> 
> ...


I'm already enjoying popcorn while watching you dance.:thumbsup:

I would like a show of hands here from the other members.

How many of you require a camera inspection after you clean a sewer or you dont do the job?

How many of you believe if you dont use a camera after you clear a drain your not a professional?


----------



## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I'm already enjoying popcorn while watching you dance.:thumbsup:
> 
> I would like a show of hands here from the other members.
> 
> ...


Ive already shared with you how my camera works in my product. I would not go so far as to say that its required or I wont do the job, or one is not professional. But I would say that it does offer a higher level of service and professionalism, especially when you offer the warranty that I do. I dont do them on lavs and kitchens YET because I dont have the mini cam YET. But as soon as I have one I WILL do it on all drain jobs that I put my warranty on.


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

You warranty a drain cleaning?:no:


----------



## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Sure I know..when I pull up to a house with orangberg theres no need for the camera...when I roll up on 70 year old clay pipe with roots covering the yard theres no need for a camera. When I dig up cast iron and find the bottom out of the pipe what good is a camera going to do.....show me how bad the rest of the pipe is also? A camera is not needed for the normal drain cleaning job. Your just using your camera to get dig jobs...nothing wrong with that but saying a camera is required to do a proper job is simply not true.
> 
> *Are you suggesting that i dont not offer professional service unless I use a camera after i clean a drain?*


 
Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

We camera EVERY sewer main we clean...

Camera goes down first so we know what we are dealing with,

Then either the scrubber or cable machine

Then camera again to prove to the customer and provide an appropriate warranty to the work performed.

Customers LOVE this..


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SPH said:


> Yes that is exactly what I am saying.
> 
> We camera EVERY sewer main we clean...
> 
> ...


Well I would love to see you put your camera down this sewer.....FIRST.:laughing: 










You see I didn't need a camera to tell me this sewer was full of roots...I dont have customers that I must prove myself too they trust me for good reason. I'm a professional. They already know that and thats why they called me to start with. here take a look at what I found......


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Some guy used the example of .."Does a DR operate blindfolded? or somthing of that nature earlier in the thread.

I can say with confidence that if I went to the DR. today with a sore back he would not automatically want to do an MRI. He would tell me that an MRI would be excessive at this point because your just having alittle trouble. If my problem persisted or I didn't respond to therapy and rest then a MRI would be considered.

I can relate a backed up sewer to a sore back. Theres no need to run a camera into the sewer unless it doesn't respond to my therapy.(the cable) Or theres a re-occuring unkown cause or location of the problem.


----------



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I'm already enjoying popcorn while watching you dance.:thumbsup:
> 
> I would like a show of hands here from the other members.
> 
> ...




I don't 

I only use a camera on client's request.


----------



## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

We Camera Almost every New line we do on the first time working there.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Airgap said:


> [/color]
> 
> I don't
> 
> I only use a camera on client's request.


From the content of your posts as a whole I know your a professional. :thumbsup: I dont care what anyone else says.


----------



## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> You warranty a drain cleaning?:no:


Thats right, I do. :yes: Why, should I follow the herd and not?


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> Some guy used the example of .."Does a DR operate blindfolded? or somthing of that nature earlier in the thread.
> 
> I can say with confidence that if I went to the DR. today with a sore back he would not automatically want to do an MRI. He would tell me that an MRI would be excessive at this point because your just having alittle trouble. If my problem persisted or I didn't respond to therapy and rest then a MRI would be considered.
> 
> I can relate a backed up sewer to a sore back. Theres no need to run a camera into the sewer unless it doesn't respond to my therapy.(the cable) Or theres a re-occuring unkown cause or location of the problem.


TM, I do believe you would argue with a rock over whose head was harder. After which, you would proudly proclaim that the rock had lost the argument.

I'm not doing any dancing here, TM, just laying out my opinion. I don't require a show of hands in support of my opionion, I know I'm right.

Given the same skill set and experience, a sewer cleaning plumber with a camera and locator will always be more professional than you, until the day you pull your head out and get with the program.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> TM, I do believe you would argue with a rock over whose head was harder. After which, you would proudly proclaim that the rock had lost the argument.
> 
> I'm not doing any dancing here, TM, just laying out my opinion. I don't require a show of hands in support of my opionion, I know I'm right.
> 
> Given the same skill set and experience, a sewer cleaning plumber with a camera and locator will always be more professional than you, until the day you pull your head out and get with the program.


But thats just it...every plumber doesn't have the same skill set...some need more equipment to be effective.


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> But thats just it...every plumber doesn't have the same skill set...some need more equipment to be effective.


Side by side... you'll never be as effective as I am, with or without my camera.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> Side by side... you'll never be as effective as I am, with or without my camera.


Wow thats a bold statement and I would take that as a personal attack. But if it makes you feel good then its ok for you to believe that. I'm confident my plumbing repair abilities and experience qualify me as an expert. Part of being an expert is knowing what to do and when.....running a camera down every drain after or before you clean a sewer doesn't make you more professional it only makes you more expensive.


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> Wow thats a bold statement and I would take that as a personal attack. But if it makes you feel good then its ok for you to believe that. I'm confident my plumbing repair abilities and experience qualify me as an expert. Part of being an expert is knowing what to do and when.....running a camera down every drain after or before you clean a sewer doesn't make you more professional it only makes you more expensive.


Oh, now don't overreact... I'll wait here a minute while you step back and grow a set.:laughing:

You may be an expert... you're just not very well equipped!:thumbsup:


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Palama said:


> Oh, now don't overreact... I'll wait here a minute while you step back and grow a set.:laughing:
> 
> You may be an expert... you're just not very well equipped!:thumbsup:


The forum is not the place for continued off topic exchanges. It doesn't bother me that you make the posts but if I really tell you how I feel my memebership will be terminated. I hope you understand and can control yourself from here forward. professionals must exercise a certain amount of self control.....Now would be a good time to put into good practice.

The chatroom is always open....I invite you to visit so we can have a talk in private. 

Thank you,
T.M.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Palama said:


> Oh, now don't overreact... I'll wait here a minute while you step back and grow a set.:laughing:
> 
> You may be an expert... you're just not very well equipped!:thumbsup:


 I dont own cameras or a sewer machine, i sub it out. Here the sewer cleaning and camera biz is run over with hacks,jacklegs, so its not worth it from me to purchase these tools. 

If i need these services I call a guy who has a baddass jetter and cleanin machine. 

I love when the guys cleaning the sewer act like they know it all, but have never installed a drain pipe in there career :laughing:


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Palama said:


> Side by side... you'll never be as effective as I am, with or without my camera.


Dude, its not that hard to push a cable into some pipe. think about it :thumbsup:


----------



## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Palama said:
> 
> 
> > Well I wish he would explain it to me because i dont see cleaning a sewer the same as a surgeon operating on a person. You dont need a camera to clean a sewer if you know how to use a sewer machine and have some experience.
> ...


----------



## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I almost can't believe this is still going back and forth.

Can you clean a drain without a camera? *YES*

Can you better diagnose a problem with a drain using a camera? *YES*

Do all drains require a camera? *NO*

Is a qualified plumber who does drain cleaning more qualified to clean drains than a qualified drain cleaner? *YES*

Is a qualified plumber who does not do drain cleaning more qualified to clean drains than a qualified drain cleaner? *No*

Do I believe drain cleaners should be licensed? *YES*

Do I believe drain cleaners should be doing plumbing work? *NO*

Mark


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Cuda said:


> TheMaster said:
> 
> 
> > when you run a camera down the line after rodding you might be amazed at the roots that are still there after running the biggest cutter that can fit in. Jetting is different it really cleans the roots out.
> ...


----------



## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Well I wish he would explain it to me because i dont see cleaning a sewer the same as a surgeon operating on a person. You dont need a camera to clean a sewer if you know how to use a sewer machine and have some experience.





Cuda said:


> when you run a camera down the line after rodding you might be amazed at the roots that are still there after running the biggest cutter that can fit in. Jetting is different it really cleans the roots out.





TheMaster said:


> The operator of the equipment plays a very important role in how effective the machine cleans the drain. Sure i agree that a jetter can cut roots out of a drain very well. I agree with using a camera if the customer wants to spend the money to use the camera,I dont feel like I should require the customer pay for me using a camera. I give options and let the person spendig the money decide.


I don't know how the quotes got so screwed up but it sure makes it hard to read.

Mark


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Cuda said:
> 
> 
> > The operator of the equipment plays a very important role in how effective the machine cleans the drain. Sure i agree that a jetter can cut roots out of a drain very well. I agree with using a camera if the customer wants to spend the money to use the camera,I dont feel like I should require the customer pay for me using a camera. I give options and let the person spendig the money decide.
> ...


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Bollinger plumber said:


> So we are suppose to pay 10 grand for a camera and not get paid for using it?


Let me clear that up.....I dont feel like I should MAKE a customer pay for me using a camera when the customer does not want me to use a camera in the 1st place and the drain opens with no problem........they just want the drain cleaned and a bill.


----------



## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> The forum is not the place for continued off topic exchanges. It doesn't bother me that you make the posts but if I really tell you how I feel my memebership will be terminated. I hope you understand and can control yourself from here forward. professionals must exercise a certain amount of self control.....Now would be a good time to put into good practice.
> 
> The chatroom is always open....I invite you to visit so we can have a talk in private.
> 
> ...


I didn't realize we'd gone off topic...:whistling2:

You still haven't asked about my new BBQ, which is really irritating. Mentioned in the very first post...

I'll take you up on that invite sometime this weekend.


----------



## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Let me clear that up.....I dont feel like I should MAKE a customer pay for me using a camera when the customer does not want me to use a camera in the 1st place and the drain opens with no problem........they just want the drain cleaned and a bill.


Its great that you are getting blockages cleared, but with a camera wouldn't it be nice to be able to show the customer why they are having this problem... and exactly where it is on the main line. Maybe that will even lead to show that it is past the property line and the city can deal with it..

I really think you have nothing more useful to say on this topic.. the people have spoken, and you need to get a camera and learn how to use it.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SPH said:


> Its great that you are getting blockages cleared, but with a camera wouoldn't it be nice to be able to show the customer why they are having this problem... and exactly where it is on the main line. Maybe that will even lead to show that it is past the property line nad the city can deal with it..
> 
> I really think you have nother more useful to say on this topic.. the people have spoken and you need to get a camera and learn how to use it.


If the customer would like the sewer inspected with a camera that can be arranged but if they dont I'm not going to force it on them. 

You seem angry that I dont agree with using a camera after cleaning every sewer.......Its just my opinion.....and a few others who have posted.


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

SPH said:


> Its great that you are getting blockages cleared, but with a camera wouoldn't it be nice to be able to show the customer why they are having this problem... and exactly where it is on the main line. Maybe that will even lead to show that it is past the property line nad the city can deal with it..
> 
> I really think you have nother more useful to say on this topic.. the people have spoken and you need to get a camera and learn how to use it.


Here the home owner is responsible for their sewer line all the way to the main including the throat of the wye at the main. I know it is wrong for them to be responsible to replace the street but they make them do it.


----------



## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> If the customer would like the sewer inspected with a camera that can be arranged but if they dont I'm not going to force it on them.
> 
> You seem angry that I dont agree with using a camera after cleaning every sewer.......Its just my opinion.....and a few others who have posted.


haha no not angry at all, just frustrated at ignorance.


----------



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

SPH said:


> haha no not angry at all, just frustrated.


So, you're frustrated that you have to camera every drain you clean??


----------



## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

Airgap said:


> So, you're frustrated that you have to camera eevry drain you clean??


I disagree but, that was a good one :laughing:


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

I don't camera every drain but I do offer them the option at a discount for calling me to rod the sewer for them.


----------

