# Milwaukee M12 PEX expander



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Saw it today at O.C. Phcc trade show, you Uponor guys will be chomping at the bit for this.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I've been waiting for that and the M18 version since I first saw them online. Do you know when it hits the streets?





Paul


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

pric
e?


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Figure around $400 for the M12, $6-700 for the M18. M12's should be hitting Ferguson by December, contact your local branch for when they should be coming in. 70 are heading for CA, 40 already sold.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

$400? What other M12 tool is even half that price? How much of that $400 goes straight to Upanor for the rights to make the tool? It looks like a $250 tool to me. 






Paul


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I heard they would be availible with the rest of the new tool lineup in November. Atleast that is what a Milwaukee rep told me.

Have any of you used any of the other M12 tools? I was thinking about getting the impact and trying it, because of it's size and weight. I grabed one of the hacksawa and took it out to my truck and tried to cut a piece of 2" pvc and I was not impressed.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

You may not know that the PEX tool comes with the new Red Lithium batteries. The M12 Hackzall I would rate for pipe up to 1" in diameter, though I have cut the odd 3" ABS clean out riser. The new M18 Hackzall really packs a punch however.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I have always used Dewalt and I'm sick of the batteries. I'm going to go to M18 for most stuff but I like the size of the M12 impact


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I would try to demo the M12 first, the M18 with the compact battery may fit the bill.


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## DownHill (Oct 15, 2010)

No expand. Crimp & Press. Expansion will die.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

DownHill said:


> No expand. Crimp & Press. Expansion will die.


Why is that? Every thread I can remember that's been devoted to pex failures has been a crimp style system.






Paul


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> Why is that? Every thread I can remember that's been devoted to pex failures has been a crimp style system.
> 
> Paul


As I recall the failures were dezincification related or, tubing related.
Kitec- was dezinification of a compression type joint,
Zurn- was dezincification of a crimped joint,
CPI Durapex- was a tubing failure.

Wirsbo is not immune to problems with their brass fittings...
If the water is going to eat brass it doesn't care about the label...:laughing:

I recently ripped out some Wirsbo at a home that I had installed sometime ago. The home had a problem where the water properties had changed to acidic and the copper was getting pinholes quickly. They were very localized and the overall thickness of most of the pipe was still good. Installation of an acid neutralizer saved the house from a complete repipe.

The pipes between the well pump system to the acid neutralizer, and the untreated lines to hosebibbs became a concern. At the time confidence in plastic PEX fittings was not high with either me or, the customer so we elected to go with Wirsbo brass fittings knowing that eventually they would fail and need replacement. They recently did in the last year and this time we did go to plastic fittings.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

DownHill said:


> No expand. Crimp & Press. Expansion will die.


Why do you think expansion will die?

With all due respect, I used crimp style fittings for years, but when I came to work for my current employer I was introduced to the Uphonor system. I now believe expansion is the way to go.

Not trying to pick a fight, I'm just wondering if you might know something I don't. Have you had or seen problems with expansion style fittings or connections where you work?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

That's what I was thinking Red. I know it's mostly confined to brass fittings but I have always used the plastic Wirsbo fittings with no problems. The only Wirsbo failures I've seen here are due to installer error. I think piping systems are going to have to be tailored to the area and water conditions more and more. We have pretty hard water here (20-25 gpg municipal; I've seen over 100 gpm in private wells) but otherwise the water is not too bad.




Paul


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## DownHill (Oct 15, 2010)

I've seen & heard of similar problems and/or advantages with both expansion & crimp style connections. 

With that said, both Viega and Uponor have a pretty good track record unless I've missed something. 

So if they have similar performance but one is simpler or easier to install (Viega) I just think the other will lose market share. 

Crimp:
Handcrimpers, one motion=Done
Powercrimpers, one motion=Done.

Expansion:
Hand Expanders-Pump, pump, pump-rotate, pump, pump, done.
Power Expanders-Expand, release, expand,-wait-done. 

(P.S. I'm familiar with Type A, B, C-the Engl method, irradiation, peroxide, AL, fitting size differences, etc. etc. etc. Yawn)


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## DownHill (Oct 15, 2010)

For those that might be interested or need one. 

http://toolmonger.com/2010/08/03/milwaukees-m12-2432-22-pex-tool-and-why-you-should-care/


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

What I hate about the crimp style is getting the ring to line up just right. And not being able to crimp in a tight spot. I'm a Uponor guy:thumbsup:


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

My supplier has 5 of them. $354 bucks. I plan on getting one. I played around with it a little and it is pretty solid tool. Will come in handy in tight wall cavities.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Will said:


> My supplier has 5 of them. $354 bucks. I plan on getting one. I played around with it a little and it is pretty solid tool. Will come in handy in tight wall cavities.


Does it come with any dies? I'm guessing it doesn't but hoping it does.










Paul


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

1/2", 3/4" and 1"


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Well, if that's the case I may be picking one up sooner than I thought. For $354 that's not bad. :thumbsup: I just checked Milwaukee's site and saw the m18 version will do up to 1 1/2" and comes with 1", 1 1/4", and 1 1/2" heads. Their pricetags look a lot better to me knowing they aren't just bare tools.





Paul


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Yep 1/2", 3/4", and 1" for the M12. Comes with a charger and battery. Not bad when it's $270 for the Uponor hand expander.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

I just got mine today. $199 from grainger, tool only. I'm not impressed yet. I'll play with it more tomorrow. It expands the pipe in one step, then instantly retracts. That is not anything like the uponor tool. It may be quicker, but it doesn't stay expanded long enough in my opinion. You have to let it run it's cycle a few times so that it rotates properly. I tried to use it a couple times in the shop and it did not want to retract. I had to remove the head in order to get the pipe off the head. Check out the youtube video from milwaukee, you will see what I mean about the way it does it in one step. I'll post again soon.

Bob


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

That's kind of cool that you can buy it without the heads to save $$$. I think you need the Milwaukee heads for it to auto-rotate though, don't you?






Paul


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> That's kind of cool that you can buy it without the heads to save $$$. I think you need the Milwaukee heads for it to auto-rotate though, don't you?


 
Yes


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

PlungerJockey said:


> I heard they would be availible with the rest of the new tool lineup in November. Atleast that is what a Milwaukee rep told me.
> 
> Have any of you used any of the other M12 tools? I was thinking about getting the impact and trying it, because of it's size and weight. I grabed one of the hacksawa and took it out to my truck and tried to cut a piece of 2" pvc and I was not impressed.


 That mini sawzall isn't great for cutting plastic unless you're in a really tight spot then it is a godsend. It has made cutting some 3" in a chase wall much much easier.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

So I got to make up about 15 fittings, mostly 1/2 inch. It took a little while to get used to, but all in all I think I'll adjust to it. One battery did all joints.

I have the hackzall too, use it for2,3,and 4 inch no problems. In fact I like it so much I got rid of my full size cordless sawzall. You gotta keep the shaft oiled up good.

Bob


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