# Bidding work



## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Here has got to be a more streamline way of bidding work. This makes my eyes go cross reading all of the specks and taking material off the old school way. I was thinking about fast pipe has anybody used it before.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

There is , pay someone to do it for you. lol


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

I was thinking the exact same thing!
I love reading, but when I am doing takeoffs, the letters and symbols start dancing on the page while my eyes glaze over.


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## supakingDFW (Aug 19, 2014)

wyrickmech said:


> Here has got to be a more streamline way of bidding work. This makes my eyes go cross reading all of the specks and taking material off the old school way. I was thinking about fast pipe has anybody used it before.


I hear ya!...gives me tired head! I can take a set of plans to my owner and within a few minutes he can spit out a figure that is within 1-3% of my estimate price...that took me most of the day!

MCA book helps too...


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

There is. Unfortunately, there is a buy in cost and a pretty steep learning curve (especially for those who learned estimating using pad and pencil). I bought a software package and found that it needed customization to dovetail with the type of work I was bidding. Unfortunately, when I questioned my vendor on the tweeks I needed made, they said I was the one best suited to do so. Excuse me? 
I used to rent space with a contractor who had a very sophisticated CAD based system which he was tech savvy enough to know how to use. I was able to get a feeling for the learning curve by watching him train others. At this point in time what he was doing is way too expensive and labor intensive for anything other than hospitals, airports, and other such complicated structures.
I have another colleague who produce a complete bid in the $1/4 to1/2 million range in a couple of hours. Having seen one of these, I'm a bit suspect not because I think he misses stuff, rather his labor values are too low. Unfortunately, his system is his own creation.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

supakingDFW said:


> I hear ya!...gives me tired head! I can take a set of plans to my owner and within a few minutes he can spit out a figure that is within 1-3% of my estimate price...that took me most of the day!
> 
> MCA book helps too...


That's because he's been doing it for a long time. I have as well, but I still have my doubts about my accuracy even when I job track.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

justme said:


> There is , pay someone to do it for you. lol


That is what a big firm in our town did back in 2006, they had just one yay-hoo looking over the plans for Lucas Oil stadium.... no one double checked his work and they went with it... They missed something like 200 large commercial roof drains... OUCH!! Rumor was he was over 300k in the hole on day one just on his copper pipe losses..



the went belly up big time after that debacle....

I would rather do it myself, then I have no one else to blame for failure or success.......


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## supakingDFW (Aug 19, 2014)

Plumbus said:


> That's because he's been doing it for a long time. I have as well, but I still have my doubts about my accuracy even when I job track.


That's exactly right...He just looks at each drain/fixture and has a predetermined value for each one in his head based on average cost of fixture, labor, ect...Iy's maddening to watch because I'm over-analytical and am worried I will miss something


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Old schooling a bid is ok but when you get to many in the office at once it's maddening. I was wondering about some tricks to streamline the proses. Computer programs seem to be the best option but which one? They cost to much to try all of them. Just stopped for the day it's a little past midnight here and I will have to get up early to get the rest of the pricing together before the bid time. Plus I have one more due Friday that I haven't started on yet. Just trying to ease the process or I could just start drinking again.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

If you go the software route, there is a learning process which will slow you down considerably at first, plus you'll probably have too make time for hands on training. Best to do in slow season (if one exists in your neck of the woods).


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

One bid down simple job but multi staged. 120,000 later I'm done now to see if anybody cuts my throat on the price.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Plumbus said:


> If you go the software route, there is a learning process which will slow you down considerably at first, plus you'll probably have too make time for hands on training. Best to do in slow season (if one exists in your neck of the woods).


fast pipe comes with training and they sit with you on your first bid. That is the reason I was thinking about them.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Ok I got results today my bid was low,competitively low just under by 1%. Maybe this isn't a bad way to bid it. I do need to streamline the process though


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## ken53 (Mar 1, 2011)

I've done it both ways over the last 20 years. But over the last couple of years it has been getting more difficult. We do a lot of renovation work on office buildings and if don't go to the walk threw you can get screwed big time. All plans require an engineers stamp on them here but engineers tend not to do a job walk threw and they go off of 30 year old prints and cut and paste the specks so you don't know what you will find. I use both a pad and software and still it's hard to spot everything but we try and hope if we do miss something it wasn't on the plan or in the specks.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

I've been getting a lot of RFQs for new commercial, but haven't done it, really. How hard can it be..


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Plumber said:


> I've been getting a lot of RFQs for new commercial, but haven't done it, really. How hard can it be..


depending on what type of building and what type of project. It can get quite complicated. Renovation and new work on hospitals is the main ones I quote. For instance price shutting down every med gas in a hospital and still keep every critical area operational. All in the same 10 hour window. Or how much do you put in for temporary heat or cooling on a new addition. I have one on the draft table where labor cost per hour is ruffly 100.00 per man hour make a mistake there and watch the meter spin on that one. There is a big difference between a RFQ and a RFB.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

wyrickmech said:


> depending on what type of building and what type of project. It can get quite complicated. Renovation and new work on hospitals is the main ones I quote. For instance price shutting down every med gas in a hospital and still keep every critical area operational. All in the same 10 hour window. Or how much do you put in for temporary heat or cooling on a new addition. I have one on the draft table where labor cost per hour is ruffly 100.00 per man hour make a mistake there and watch the meter spin on that one. There is a big difference between a RFQ and a RFB.


 Definitely a mechanical job, that. We've got monster mechanical companies (100+ plumbers) up here for some reason. No way would I consider bidding against them---no more than they would consider dealing with Mrs. Brown and her water heater....:laughing:

I've been getting requests for small retail remodels from out-of-state contractors. Move a toilet, that sort of thing.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Plumber said:


> Definitely a mechanical job, that. We've got monster mechanical companies (100+ plumbers) up here for some reason. No way would I consider bidding against them---no more than they would consider dealing with Mrs. Brown and her water heater....:laughing: I've been getting requests for small retail remodels from out-of-state contractors. Move a toilet, that sort of thing.


the 100 plus mechanical contractors is who I compete with on these jobs 120000 dollars and they go after it like it's the last job in the states. I have a advantage I used to be one of the major company lead Forman,s and I know the people and the buildings very well. Including the engineers as in what they want and what they will overlook. It is very nerve racking but it will pay off in the end.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

my old companies advantage was ignore the spec book and install the cheapest of everything. if they got caught, throw me under the bus as the foreman. bid against that. i told them, not every job is design/build.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> my old companies advantage was ignore the spec book and install the cheapest of everything. if they got caught, throw me under the bus as the foreman. bid against that. i told them, not every job is design/build.


 been there. Just had one a month ago where it backfired on my competitor. I had a little talk with the project manager he made them stick to the specks. They weren't happy but I stuck to my values. I didn't bad mouth them I just clearly stated what I had priced and why I was higher than them. At the end of the day I didn't loose a dime but they couldn't say the same.


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## cesspit (Dec 30, 2013)

I use the Quote Express quick pipe. Its nice and all but there is a huge learning curve. The training is really helpful but time consuming. After the first year, they(quote express) charge for "annual support" which includes additional training and updates to the software, which costs approx. $900/yr., and I feel is necessary. Then you have to factor in if your computer system/setup, if you already have one, is capable of running the program. Ideally, you would want two monitors, rather large ones. All in all, if ALL you do is bid large new constructions projects, then software is the way to go. Our company purchased it, and I don't feel we use it as much as we should.


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## dannyoung85 (Oct 8, 2013)

I use Quote Express as well. It takes awhile to get your specs, job items, assemblies and zones set up but one you're done you can fly through the estimate, especially if you are using the on-screen take-off. I was trained to do estimates the old school way with a scale, tally sheets and colored pencils but once I upgraded it was totally worth it. I guess it depends on how many estimates your company churns out as to whether it's worth the money or not.


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## david thompson (Sep 18, 2014)

I used to rent space with a contractor who had a very sophisticated CAD based system which he was tech savvy enough to know how to use. I was able to get a feeling for the learning curve by watching him train others. At this point in time what he was doing is way too expensive and labor intensive for anything other than hospitals, airports, and other such complicated structures.


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## LIVBMI (Sep 12, 2008)

I have used Fast Pipe for many years. You can do an estimate in 1/3 the time, that is if you have the plans in PDf form. You can import the plans and do take off on your computer screen or enter it manually. The program is worth the cost. You have a yearly maintance cost witch includes material and program up dates throughout the year. They have verry good coustumer service. If you think this is more than you need i use Craftsmen Nationa Estimator. I have compaired both of them to a hand estimate. They are always within $100.00 of each outher for a $20,000.00 job.
Fast Pipe offers a trial.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

LIVBMI said:


> I have used Fast Pipe for many years. You can do an estimate in 1/3 the time, that is if you have the plans in PDf form. You can import the plans and do take off on your computer screen or enter it manually. The program is worth the cost. You have a yearly maintance cost witch includes material and program up dates throughout the year. They have verry good coustumer service. If you think this is more than you need i use Craftsmen Nationa Estimator. I have compaired both of them to a hand estimate. They are always within $100.00 of each outher for a $20,000.00 job.
> Fast Pipe offers a trial.


How difficult is Fast Pipe to master?


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