# Some people are too much.



## CSINEV (Aug 6, 2010)

You know what pisses me off? 
When a home owner shows my quote to another company and asks them if they can beat it. Then calls me back and says, "Well another company has agreed to do the job for 20% less then your bid. I want to give you the job, so if you are willing to drop your price below his then the job is yours." I ask,"How did he know what my cost was?" He replies, "I showed them you estimate." I reply, "Mr. Smith, I understand you are trying to get the best deal you can for your money. And I realise you think what you are doing is a good idea. But let me ask you a question. You said you were a physical-therapist right?" He answers, "Yes." I continue, "Well how would you reply if one of your patients came in and said he found another physical-therapist in town who agreed to beat your price and wanted to stay with you but only if you dropped your rates?" He looked at me totally shocked and said, "Well that's totally different, you see I'm in the medical field and have had years or training and received a degree and besides what I to is for the health of the people, what you do is just plumbing its not the same." Do you ever get so mad that you can feel your ears and neck burn? I explain, "Well Mr. Smith I guess you don't understand much about plumbing because besides having a 5 year apprenticeship I also went on to college on got a degree as well. And It might come to a surprise to you but plumbers are charged with protecting the public health in this country. It's truly a shame that someone who clearly has as much knowledge as you do does not know that. I suggest you go ahead and use the other guy because I'm sure he will give you everything you pay for." I pick up my hat turn for the door and say, "Have a good day sir."


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

This is what I say......."Plumbers prevent what doctors cure". That'll shut 'em up!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I get this on a daily basis.... I am totaly fed up with it.... so I dont give a **** anymore....... I just tell them if you cant afford my price then get the other guy


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> I get this on a daily basis.... I am totaly fed up with it.... so I dont give a **** anymore....... I just tell them if you cant afford my price then get the other guy


My sentiments exactly. People seem to be getting worse by the day.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I like those people that view themselves so superior to us lowly plumbers. I tell people do you realise that I had to go to school for 5 years and take an 8 hour exam to do my job? Or I show my code book. Tell them I know everything or where to find anything in this book. 

I usually get oh I guess I never realised. I've heard things like this so many times so I don't care anymore. I get my satisfaction when they try to do their own plumbing and flood their house or hurt themselves. I had the head doctor of whatever dept of a prominant hospital try to unthread his soldered on hose bibb. OOPS.... Of course he did it on 7pm on a friday. 500 dollars later, he learned his lesson and I got my satisfaction.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Great response! Sometimes its tough not to let them see emotions when deep down you are on fire. 






CSINEV said:


> You know what pisses me off?
> When a home owner shows my quote to another company and asks them if they can beat it. Then calls me back and says, "Well another company has agreed to do the job for 20% less then your bid. I want to give you the job, so if you are willing to drop your price below his then the job is yours." I ask,"How did he know what my cost was?" He replies, "I showed them you estimate." I reply, "Mr. Smith, I understand you are trying to get the best deal you can for your money. And I realise you think what you are doing is a good idea. But let me ask you a question. You said you were a physical-therapist right?" He answers, "Yes." I continue, "Well how would you reply if one of your patients came in and said he found another physical-therapist in town who agreed to beat your price and wanted to stay with you but only if you dropped your rates?" He looked at me totally shocked and said, "Well that's totally different, you see I'm in the medical field and have had years or training and received a degree and besides what I to is for the health of the people, what you do is just plumbing its not the same." Do you ever get so mad that you can feel your ears and neck burn? I explain, "Well Mr. Smith I guess you don't understand much about plumbing because besides having a 5 year apprenticeship I also went on to college on got a degree as well. And It might come to a surprise to you but plumbers are charged with protecting the public health in this country. It's truly a shame that someone who clearly has as much knowledge as you do does not know that. I suggest you go ahead and use the other guy because I'm sure he will give you everything you pay for." I pick up my hat turn for the door and say, "Have a good day sir."


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Doesn't this sort of bartering happen over the phone, and not in person? 

How did that happen?


Because I get a call like that, and someone is stating that? I tell them you're wasting my time because I gave a price and if you need cheaper then get them scheduled; my phone is always ringing.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

To all the doctors out there I like "Who's profession has saved more lives?"


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

You handled it very well CSINEV. :thumbup:

The sad thing is how many other plumbers would have fallen for that and lowered their price. How many plumbers lower their price not realizing they are bidding against themselves? 

The cheap plumbers keep working more hours and cannot figure out why they are not getting ahead. The industry would be so much better in all aspects if these lowly plumbers/hacks would just hang it up and work for someone who knows what the hell they are doing.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

You can plant a little seed of food for thought and tell them a lot can happen between the lowest price and the finished job...and its not always good. Buyer beware.


They shouldnt be allowed to feel comfortable with the decision to not choose you. The question is how to do it with subtlety.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

CSINEV said:


> You know what pisses me off?
> When a home owner shows my quote to another company and asks them if they can beat it. Then calls me back and says, "Well another company has agreed to do the job for 20% less then your bid. I want to give you the job, so if you are willing to drop your price below his then the job is yours." I ask,"How did he know what my cost was?" He replies, "I showed them you estimate." I reply, "Mr. Smith, I understand you are trying to get the best deal you can for your money. And I realise you think what you are doing is a good idea. But let me ask you a question. You said you were a physical-therapist right?" He answers, "Yes." I continue, "Well how would you reply if one of your patients came in and said he found another physical-therapist in town who agreed to beat your price and wanted to stay with you but only if you dropped your rates?" He looked at me totally shocked and said, "Well that's totally different, you see I'm in the medical field and have had years or training and received a degree and besides what I to is for the health of the people, what you do is just plumbing its not the same." Do you ever get so mad that you can feel your ears and neck burn? I explain, "Well Mr. Smith I guess you don't understand much about plumbing because besides having a 5 year apprenticeship I also went on to college on got a degree as well. And It might come to a surprise to you but plumbers are charged with protecting the public health in this country. It's truly a shame that someone who clearly has as much knowledge as you do does not know that. I suggest you go ahead and use the other guy because I'm sure he will give you everything you pay for." I pick up my hat turn for the door and say, "Have a good day sir."


I would have simply told him I felt the same way when I was a Doctor, thats why I became a plumber. Based on the area you are living I suspect you hear a ton of this. We are getting more and more of it every day. I give a price and a smile, not a discount. However, the handy man in my area is becoming more and more scarce. The State of FL has found Sting houses for unlicensed contractors to be profitable. It is helping us quite a bit with prices.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

So glad I am out of this business. Plumbers aren't respected for the important work we do. Most people fail to comprehend the difference between a LICENSED PLUMBER and a "handy person".:furious:
Its all about price, low bid, lower bid, lower price, etc. I guess it is partly the economy. But in my experience, its seems plumbers have always been looked down upon in their business.

Oh well. That bridge has been burned. Good riddance.:thumbup:


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Here's how I put it: I was not allowed to work on a job without supervision until I had served a five-year apprenticeship and obtained a license that certified me as competent. How about you?


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Excellant response. kudos to you. Quality is rarely cheap and cheap is seldom quality.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

"Here's my card... Call me when it needs fixing..."

"Gawd I hope it's not as &%#@ed up as the last one of his I had to fix...."

:whistling2:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

BURNS my wrenches !! GREAT response !


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Should be looking at this as the 60% rule.

60% of the time you should land estimated jobs. Any higher percentage and you are probably working cheap.


Never, and I mean never ever let a customer think you need the work. You'll be sorry you did. 

Any time you seem over interested to please a customer or gain their business, you're setting yourself for a situation they know is played to their tune, not yours.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Only yesterday I was called for a leaking ks drain. Sure enough it's flooding. I only had the faucet on for about 2 seconds but long enough to realize they had high pressure. I got side tracked with a prv after testing and finding 150 psi (yes the t&p was dripping). After replacing the prv I go back to the sink, that's when it all came out. Seems the "carpenter" was supremely confident in his plumbing skills, installed the new sink 6 weeks ago, left the tailpiece on secondary bowl about 3/4" short and forced the waste arm up onto it. After taking it all apart I discover in addition to the tailpiece being too short, that the bonehead had the tailpiece washer on a sj connection and an sj gasket where the tailpiece washer should be. It's a wonder that it had taken 6 weeks to start leaking. In addition, I discovered a plastic ice maker line connected underneath the sink. It seems the "carpenter/plumber" pulled the refrigerator out to paint behind it and probably kinked the copper ice maker line when he put it back resulting in a leak which damaged the ho's floor. Carpenter returned and "stopped" the leak via the new plastic supply line and is supposed to come back later to fix the floor. I repaired the sink and gave the ho a very polite lecture about never letting a "carpenter" touch his plumbing ever again. He received it well. Sometimes people just don't do due diligence when a guy stands there telling them "oh yeah, no problem, we can handle that for you". My "lecture" included the presentation of my mp and mg certification cards. I think he got the picture, likes us, and will probably call us for all plumbing matters in the future. The only problem is that the "carpenter" replaced the ks, and every lav faucet in the house, the ho rebuilds his own toilets, and his wh is a '94 so a lot of stuff will probably not need anything for a long time.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I dislike it when people say, "Oh I was going to do the job myself, but I just don't have the time." Yeah right, like the homeowner was going to solder copper, make a repair, etc. but just didn't have the time. They are mildly insulting me when they say that.

Or how about when they call you up to repair a leaking hose spigot or faucet and they say, "It probably just needs a new packing or it needs a new washer." I really dislike it when a homeowner tells me how to do my job.


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## Dun' Right (Sep 27, 2010)

CSINEV said:


> You know what pisses me off?
> When a home owner shows my quote to another company and asks them if they can beat it. Then calls me back and says, "Well another company has agreed to do the job for 20% less then your bid. I want to give you the job, so if you are willing to drop your price below his then the job is yours." I ask,"How did he know what my cost was?" He replies, "I showed them you estimate." I reply, "Mr. Smith, I understand you are trying to get the best deal you can for your money. And I realise you think what you are doing is a good idea. But let me ask you a question. You said you were a physical-therapist right?" He answers, "Yes." I continue, "Well how would you reply if one of your patients came in and said he found another physical-therapist in town who agreed to beat your price and wanted to stay with you but only if you dropped your rates?" He looked at me totally shocked and said, "Well that's totally different, you see I'm in the medical field and have had years or training and received a degree and besides what I to is for the health of the people, what you do is just plumbing its not the same." Do you ever get so mad that you can feel your ears and neck burn? I explain, "Well Mr. Smith I guess you don't understand much about plumbing because besides having a 5 year apprenticeship I also went on to college on got a degree as well. And It might come to a surprise to you but plumbers are charged with protecting the public health in this country. It's truly a shame that someone who clearly has as much knowledge as you do does not know that. I suggest you go ahead and use the other guy because I'm sure he will give you everything you pay for." I pick up my hat turn for the door and say, "Have a good day sir."



You always have to give them, "you get what you pay for speech". Sounds like you didn't loose your cool too bad. It's hard not too in those situations, but if people are going to act like that, your better off just walking away in some cases. Now question is, did he call you to come do the job later?


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Should be looking at this as the 60% rule.
> 
> 60% of the time you should land estimated jobs. Any higher percentage and you are probably working cheap.
> 
> ...


Well said Dunbar. Anytime someone asks "hows business", I always say "real busy". The truth is I'm usually steady or busy, and occasionally slow. :laughing:If family asks, I'm slammed beyond belief!

Alot of people seem to think if your slow you must be willing to work cheap. Also, a potential good customer may think your slow for a reason.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> If family asks, I'm slammed beyond belief!
> 
> Alot of people seem to think if your slow you must be willing to work cheap. Also, a potential good customer may think your slow for a reason.


You left out one PauliPlumber. If anyone on PZ asks, "What recession? I need to put another truck on the road." :laughing:


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Is it just me or are Doctors over priced and wrong more than 50% of the time with their diagnoses.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I agree with most on here about the frustration of dealing with customers that are like that, but really can you blame them. With all the big box stores, hardware, the whole DIY wave and plentiful handy-hacks, negotiating is just something that is going to happen.

Let me ask something that might upset a few people, but, really, stop for a minute and put yourself in the shoes of the consumer, as a consumer why shouldn't I ask if you can do better? I sure as crap don't pay full price when I buy a vehicle.

How many of you that are so enraged by this pay full asking price for everything you buy? Don't you expect to pay a better rate at the supply house when you go there? Aren't you trying to get the best price?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Somethings are not negotiable, my prices being one of them.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

This might be an unpopular thought but I believe the unlicensed hacks and unscrupulous businesses of many trades have contributed to the problem. Some people may well have gone their whole adult life without one positive experience from a trades-person. Plumbers, roofers, electricians, HVAC, painters, and handyman types have all got there industry skeletons.

At some point, the consumer may become so gun shy about hiring a service person that there is almost no way to please them. I'm am in no way suggesting it is OK but it may well be a part of the problem with problem customers we all experience from time to time.

Also, the American consumer is being barraged by "buy this now" advertising from the second they wake up until they go to sleep. They are also having their hard earned resources taxed to levels not experienced since we were under the King's thumb hundreds of years ago. All of this while the number of people receiving a free ride from the government increases.

The consumer may feel they can not individually control what is happening to their livelihood. So, when given the opportunity to put their foot down, they stomp with both feet. I don't like having to pay for others indiscretions but some of the craziness from customers seems explainable.

Ever see the movie "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas?


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Indie said:


> I agree with most on here about the frustration of dealing with customers that are like that, but really can you blame them. With all the big box stores, hardware, the whole DIY wave and plentiful handy-hacks, negotiating is just something that is going to happen.
> 
> Let me ask something that might upset a few people, but, really, stop for a minute and put yourself in the shoes of the consumer, as a consumer why shouldn't I ask if you can do better? I sure as crap don't pay full price when I buy a vehicle.
> 
> How many of you that are so enraged by this pay full asking price for everything you buy? Don't you expect to pay a better rate at the supply house when you go there? Aren't you trying to get the best price?


Straight up sales and service are two completely differen't animals.

I shop for the best price with everything I buy that involves little service. 

However, if I hire a professional to work for me, I do _not _negotiate with them.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> This might be an unpopular thought but I believe the unlicensed hacks and unscrupulous businesses of many trades have contributed to the problem. Some people may well have gone their whole adult life without one positive experience from a trades-person. Plumbers, roofers, electricians, HVAC, painters, and handyman types have all got there industry skeletons.
> 
> At some point, the consumer may become so gun shy about hiring a service person that there is almost no way to please them. I'm am in no way suggesting it is OK but it may well be a part of the problem with problem customers we all experience from time to time.
> 
> ...


Great movie


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I don't think it's wrong for the consumer to ask for a better price. I do have a problem with the consumer asking for a better price to match an unworthy competitor.

Plus, there is a way to negotiate without insulting the person you are negotiating with. The doctor obviously felt superior and was rude IMO. He wanted CSINEV to do the job and he wanted him to do it for another man's price. That is wrong. Apparently, CSINEV was the preferred plumber for whatever reason.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I think that most people dont respect or like the plumbing experience firstly because in service its an unexpected problem and expense.....there are customers who are rip off artists or complain bangers, poor folk, normal folks, high-enders and they handle it differently but still, the experience is facing an uphill climb. Removing fears is not easy when its the fear of spending something not planned for and plumbers are in their mind high priced. Secondly, the bad experiences out there are mounting
Competitors cave or live on no profit low income and its still not low enough. It takes some *good phone work* and a plumber/tech/employee who can smile or show respect to demonstrate something to help people thru it. In this economy the fluff is not desired such as the gimmicks or anything insincere. Even so, with diy being advertised as a trend and only a few gaslines blowing up now and then change doesnt seem ready to attack yet. 
Complain bangers need to be identified and avoided..
Poor people need understanding ( such as relating to their lack of money )
Normals are resigned to the fact they need a plumber and just want it done right, fair price, when they need it, and a guarantee...they will appreciate anything above the image in their minds and usually are good customers..
High enders can be great, and easy, just dont expect the praise and hero factor..

Sorry for the length ..Ive been pondering the extra work it takes on the phone to hook them lately, without caving on price.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

There will always be someone cheaper, thing is, did they include what you did. I'm not sure the figure but, I was told not long after I went in business for myself, " if you get every job, youre too cheap, if you loose every job youre too high". I would say round 50/50 is a fair average, maybe someone knows the statistic, ( my memory sucks). I get tired of working for wages. If I bid t&m, I wont loose, but wont make much. If I get high on the bid, seems I dont get the job so gezzzz. I try to be fair, I know what I need. Guess it takes a talent.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

stillaround said:


> I think that most people dont respect or like the plumbing experience firstly because in service its an unexpected problem and expense.


 

This very statement is why I had to diversify and focus on other venues of income earnings. I get tired of managing other people's emotions by the trade of a dollar.

I'm in two other businesses where it makes people happy, comfortable and I'm in demand. Sure in the hell doesn't pay as much (yet) but it sure feels like a vacation compared to plumbing 24/7.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I am glad to see how this thread is turning. We have to realize that the majority of our work only takes a short while to perform. Our experience shines. The dollar spent is on the knowledge more than product. We do our jobs with little effort and with tremendous ease. The home owner notices, some comment on our expertise and knowledge others believe it should be that way. There are some that will not and do not respect our trade and craft.

Plbgbiz hit on a very important item that a large number of people have not enjoyed a great experience with service technicians in their home. We must also realize and understand that we are invited into a client’s home to take their money and it is not in their budget. I am not happy to spend money when I do not want to spend it on something. We must cater to our clients and with today’s economy discover ways around certain situations. The time of that is my money in your pocket so give it to me is gone. Sure that will give you a few long time clients but the majority of clients will be new clients and one time hits. Knowing how to answer a client and overcoming objections, concerns, and questions about product, service and price is the way business is completed today and a necessity.

If we take a look at a quote and there are 3 quotes. Likeability factor is huge and I want to work with people I like, so will our clients .If your bid is 1-2 grand higher than the next and I like you I will ask if there is some way to bring the quote down to match the others. When we do quote we must expect it is going to be compared and shown to others. This is the nature of the business and the consumer’s right; we freely give up our rights to that quote when we send it as a bid. The proper way for the consumer would be to show you the multiple bids and allow you to explain the differences in your bid; this would be fair however business is not fair.

The person we should be upset with is the other plumber not the consumer. This other company is the one who has placed doubt in the mind of the client and has given the client the right to come back to you to ask about price. This low priced plumber or anyone for that matter in any trade has lowered the standards that we want to work in and from and is destroying consumer confidence. Our anger should be addressed towards the low price guy and not the home owner.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I agree Richard that the frustration should be at the 'cheap' plumber sometimes, but there are situations where the H.O. has caused unnecessary frustration. 

Since we know that some H.O.'s are going to shop based on price, we should be charging to provide written proposals to alleviate the frustration of not being compensated for our time and expertise to provide a proposal. That would also cut down on the free comparison shopping. 

Plumbing work is done by human beings, no two will be exactly alike. Yet, H.O.'s insist on treating plumbers like a commodity.

Thursday, had a potential customer call for a price to replace a WH.

Background: Six mos. ago we gave her a quote to replace her sewer line (spent 45 minutes on that quote, no charge because she was referred by a good customer). Instead of having the line replaced/repaired, she decided to have a tree removed instead. :furious: She didn't want to fix her broken line. Even the guy who referred us told her the price we had given was a great price.

Back to the water heater quote, I told her we didn't need to visit the property to give an estimate. Asked her a few pertinent questions and gave her a price. Her response "I already have two quotes cheaper than that." 

Now I am frustrated! She already wasted two other plumbers time and now she has wasted my time. Not once did she ask anything about what WH I was quoting on. An ignorant customer who feels ENTITLED to FREE information. No thank you!

In the future, if she needs our services, our cost will reflect the past two experiences with her.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I agree basically with what Pauliplumber said about the difference between selling a Product and selling a Service.

When I hired my accountant, I did not price-shop him, nor did I ask him to "do better" on his price.

When I hired an auto-mechanic to fix my Honda Pilot axle, I did not price-shop him, nor did I ask him to "do better" on his price.

When I recently hired a marketing consultant to help me with some new business ideas, I did not price-shop him, nor did I ask him to "do better" on his price.

When I hired a chiropractor to help me with a displaced shoulder, I did not price-shop him, nor did I ask him to "do better" on his price.

See a pattern here? I hired these people because they are professionals, not because "they were 20% cheaper than the nexy guy."

Unfortunately, plumbers aren't often treated as "professionals". Building contractors, and that includes plumbers, are treated like a "product" instead of a service. Especially in the present day of home depot madness.

In my experience, there are only a handful of really good clients, FIGHT FOR THEM TREAT THEM LIKE GOLD! Because a large chunk of customers are going to be cheap, disrespectful and ask you to be the cheapest.

Unfortunately that is just the way it is in any home contracting.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*some people are too much*

Service guy, I can understand hiring a professional but do you seriously hire people without checking their references when it concerns your livelihood? I checked with several people and nurses when I need surgery to find the best possible choice for me in a surgeon and doctor. I do not ask to receive a price due to me wanting the best for me. However I would never go blindly to a surgeon without having done my homework. I get referrals from friends that we trust prior to anyone doing work in my home. We are lucky to be in the profession we know who to ask about other qualified, quality trades people from auto mechanics to doctors for trade related injuries. I believe every trade you mentioned we have had referrals from friends. Once a client finds us to be truthful, honest, great work, take care of the problem most do not shop price for return trips. I dislike trial and error to find a qualified technician. The difference, we shop without having the business know we are checking him or her out. Our friends tell us this guy is not cheap but really good and that is fine by me; some will say this guy is really good and not expensive. In a roundabout way we do shop price.

Plumbcrazy yep we sure do run into people that price shop and agreed that some home owners are a pain. I am betting the tip of the iceberg is this type client and that is why we become so frustrated with this type client. I ask a couple of questions and they are; why do you want a price, will let you know that several quotes have been received or have you received any quotes or how many quotes have you received. If the answer yes I have received a price I ask why do you want another quote, when they say to get an idea of price I remind him or her they have received an idea of price already. We are not going to win every account and sometimes w ehave to let these people go.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I ask a couple of questions and they are; why do you want a price, will let you know that several quotes have been received or have you received any quotes or how many quotes have you received. If the answer yes I have received a price I ask why do you want another quote, when they say to get an idea of price I remind him or her they have received an idea of price already. We are not going to win every account and sometimes w ehave to let these people go.




Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I cannot see myself asking 'have you received any quotes or how many quotes have you received?"

Asking this question could be planting a seed in the prospective customer's mind. I envision this happening, "No, I called you because my friend referred you and I wanted to get an idea of the cost before scheduling."

I give price and customer is now thinking, hmmmm, maybe I should get other quotes before scheduling. After all, that must be usual and customary since they asked. 

Richard, my frustration with this customer was because I was blindsided - didn't see it coming. I am more prepared on a cold call, than with a previous customer where a relationship had been established.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

If a new client calls and wants a price over the phone, I'm very inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask if they have another quote. I will sometimes ask if they have an idea of what it's worth. This has saved my hiney on more than one occasion, I would rather not spend the time and money going out to just hear all the rhetoric later............


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Things like asking about other quotes are IMO something to be avoided at all costs. You want people to believe you're the only one or the best one that can figure out and solve their problem. Or when the customer asks how difficult a particular job can be never say terrible. It makes the customer think the bill will be huge or things will go wrong.

I always say something like this is the more difficult end of the plumbing spectrum but, it shouldn't be a big deal it will cost about this... I spent the first two years of running my business trying to be lowest cost plumber. I worked my ass off and didn't get anywhere. I tell people now, sorry I cannot get in a bidding war with a competitor. Our operating costs may be different and, in a down economy, lots of companies are lowering their prices and dying a slow death by not covering their expenses. My cost is the lowest possible that allows me to remain in business, cover my expenses and make a small profit. If that isn't good enough, as some people just want the cheapest, I pass on the job. 

I normally don't even provide a number to a person that already has several. They are more concerned with price than service, and it's just a waste of time helping people price shop.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> Things like asking about other quotes are IMO something to be avoided at all costs. *You want people to believe you're the only one or the best one that can figure out and solve their problem*. Or when the customer asks how difficult a particular job can be never say terrible. It makes the customer think the bill will be huge or things will go wrong.
> 
> I always say something like this is the more difficult end of the plumbing spectrum but, it shouldn't be a big deal it will cost about this... I spent the first two years of running my business trying to be lowest cost plumber. I worked my ass off and didn't get anywhere. I tell people now, sorry I cannot get in a bidding war with a competitor. Our operating costs may be different and, in a down economy, lots of companies are lowering their prices and dying a slow death by not covering their expenses. My cost is the lowest possible that allows me to remain in business, cover my expenses and make a small profit. If that isn't good enough, as some people just want the cheapest, I pass on the job.
> 
> I normally don't even provide a number to a person that already has several. They are more concerned with price than service, and it's just a waste of time helping people price shop.


^ That's pipe dream and you're only fooling yourself. The consumer of today is far more educated than just 10 years ago. Plus around these parts...........there's 27 pages of plumbers in the phonebook. And I've been know to tell them to feel free and peruse the ol' yeller pages.

The rest of what you posted I agree with. :thumbsup:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I have many customers that don't care how many plumbers their are and the bills aren't even questioned. That is the absolute best situation and is indeed very rare. But I fix things where others fail. I also stand behind my work without question. That is the goal for every customer to have that sort of loyalty.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> I have many customers that don't care how many plumbers their are and the bills aren't even questioned. That is the absolute best situation and is indeed very rare. But I fix things where others fail. I also stand behind my work without question. That is the goal for every customer to have that sort of loyalty.


I 100% agree and have virtually the same set-up as you, however when a new client calls I give them the drill. It's kinda like an initiation to join my club.

I think the difference is, I have NEVER advertised in 10 yrs of business.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Choctaw said:


> I 100% agree and have virtually the same set-up as you, however when a new client calls I give them the drill. It's kinda like an initiation to join my club.
> 
> I think the difference is, I have NEVER advertised in 10 yrs of business.


I have advertised but not in a couple years. Word of mouth is important. It means you're doing something right. Plus free is the cheapest advertising.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

If I go to bid a job for a new customer, I expect I'm bidding against others, learned that the hard way. It's funny they dont mention they've had 3 or 4 competitors price same job. I will typically pass on those. Maybe I'm wrong but time is hard enough to come by. I stay busier than I can handle most the time. If I do get a free minute its a welcome thing. If things were slower I would sharpen it up a bit. Dave Ramsey says being in business is to go from exhileration to horror and back to exhelieration all in one day. Then do it all again tomorrow.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> But I fix things where others fail.


I love it when you get a situation like that!:thumbup:
It instantly elevates you into being one of the plumbing gods in that customers mind.
The demonstration of your skills compared to others has made you their plumber.

I once had a camera inspection job at a medical office building where the building owner had most of the tenants move out and his plan was to keep the one remaining tenant (a dentist) and convert the rest of the building into a daycare facility owned and run by his wife.

As the building emptied the dentist office started getting frequent blockages and he had another company camera the line to determine the problem. They had left a copy of the video and had proposed fixing the "Broken" line that appeared to dead end in their video but were unsuccessful in getting a good location.

He had then decided to call our company for a second opinion because what they were saying didn't make sense.

I reviewed their video and it was fairly difficult to figure out what was happening. The views from the dentists line were good and their line seemed fine. There was a section in the middle where the camera advanced quickly with a bump but you really couldn't see what had just happened. The camera them proceeded through the line but it appeared to have been dry for a long time and culminated at what appeared to be an elbow facing up.

I told him that it was hard to be sure what had happened but, I thought they had hopped across the main drain and gone up a line on the other side ending at a closet bend where they could not get the camera to turn upward at that distance. He agreed that made sense and I proposed inspecting the line from a different office so we would be coming down the main drain when the dentists office entered the line and we would see that line entering as well as the line they had jumped into.

Sure enough I got to the point where the dentist office line entered and it looked like a double sani-tee with reduced size lines going to the dentists office and the vacant office on the other side with a pile of waste back in my direction. The other company had done exactly what I suspected.

I told him while the fitting use wasn't proper the real problem was that there was no longer flows coming down the line to wash the waste away and that was why he was having problems. I recommended that in the course of building renovations that he change it to a double wye and 45's or a double combo as well as installing 2 cleanouts at each end of the long hall on the ends of the line. Or he could take his chances that the flows when the daycare opened would be sufficient to wash the line and keep it clear.

His thanks were profuse and he told me that I had just told him more about his building than the other company had in 4 visits including one where their jetter had made a mess of the dentists office...:laughing:

Sometime later I was sent to a call at his house where he greeted me in the driveway and was glad they had sent me to his call. He said that they were not sure whether or, not they would be able to get me to his call that day when he requested me as it was getting late and I was on another call...

He just said, I know I am in good hands now...:thumbup:

When you have a customer that you have obtained that way, they are like gold!
There is very little that anybody could do that would cause you to lose them and they will not shop for a price.
All you have to do is continue being a good plumber....


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I agree with Choctaw and RW.

Potential new customer - Ask a lot of questions. The 'just give me the price' callers don't have the patience for questions and it's usually a very short call. I know they will never be our customer because they shop on price only and are too ignorant to compare apples to apples. They do not even get a verbal price. 

An existing customer is asked enough questions to adequately quote a ballpark number. A referral is usually given the exact same courtesy as an existing customer.

Potential new customer wants us to come look at job first - Service type jobs - no FREE estimates, pay trip charge. Larger jobs (replace sewer lines, re-pipes, remodels etc), sometimes we charge to go look and other times we don't. Depends on the complexity of the job, how busy we are, and the caller's overall demeanor/attitude. If they mention that they already have a quote - I let them know they are not looking for an estimate. What they really want is a written proposal and we do not do those for free. Even our "free estimates" are verbal quotes. They want something written on our letterhead - they are paying for it. :yes:

Of course, there are exceptions to the above.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Well, 


Here's a good start: 



Pointing all these fingers leads back to us, the plumber. 


I see my competition, I see what they look like, their appearance (I'll catch hell for that one but I look like a former NFL football player, so I'll reference the statement in detail) 

sometimes, and I'm not talking uniform. They look like they belong on a front porch to a trailer with a beer in their hand at 5:02pm, look rough as a cob and probably has some sort of criminal record.


I've been around enough of them and a few stray "decent" ones don't make up for the majority. 

Does your staff even look trustworthy? Did they never make it past high school diploma? 

Just the licensing regarding plumbers is laxed. The difference in hourly pay between a master plumber and a journeyman? As little as A DOLLAR. >>> $1.00

That's because so many tried their luck at running a business and had to stop. This forces the hand back at the solid and steady. People want insurance in a name that you constantly see, has been around for years.


Every week, and it has been like this forever, I'm constantly doing work behind plumbers doing **** wrong. 

It's not a Kentucky problem as the same crap happens in Ohio and it's almost assinine in Indiana. No code enforcement whatsoever in Indiana. I could cut out the back of a cereal box and call it good in the lower part of indiana...because no one cares if I put a water heater in backwards and upside down. :no:


The MAJORITY of new construction plumbers who use the pathetic excuse that "we have to use cheaper products" that indirectly forces the property owner to spend twice in short time, whether by mistake or intentional, just drags the plumber to property owner and the general populus opinion of a plumber down even further.


I rarely get in the situations like this thread was started over. As soon as someone wants quotes or pricing beyond a few minutes on the phone? Dump


Dump the call. The phone will ring, next one will be a paying customer and you just wrote off ignorance. 

Plumbing companies that go over that extra mile are just as bad as companies that do bare minimum. Put a pacifier in their mouths while you milk it...cuz that's what you're doing.


I believe in feel happy tactics but when I hear of a plumbing company making cupcakes and giving them to their customers? 

I got something you can stroke for me. :thumbup:


Now, am I nice guy? Of course. A nice older lady, couple sent me home with meatloaf a couple days ago. Will I bring them 2 fish dinners when the churches go in season with fish frys...? 

Yes, because this lady has given her advice, vitamins, vitamin water and asked from the minute I got there if I wanted something to drink. Nice people, and I surely don't rip them off like some of my competition has done in past.

There's embedded respect that I've whipped into the air with the name. I'm trustworthy, competent and flat out blunt in my advice, and known for always giving straightforward no bull**** answers. 

If I hit a gray area where they are asking me something I don't have background on? I'll tell them. But it's plumbing. Not much I can't do at this point and these people expect that when you run your own business. This is what keeps me from putting the first employee in a truck. 

How many ****ing years am I going to have to work behind the installing plumbers for shoddy workmanship?


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> I agree with Choctaw and RW.
> 
> Potential new customer - Ask a lot of questions. The 'just give me the price' callers don't have the patience for questions and it's usually a very short call. I know they will never be our customer because they shop on price only and are too ignorant to compare apples to apples. They do not even get a verbal price.
> 
> ...


 Case and point: just got a call on a 30 gal propane and I asked if he had called anyone else and/or was just checking prices...he said I was about the 7th he'd called...I said I wont give you price but thanks for the call..click.......it feels right even if I need calls


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Case and point: just got a call on a 30 gal propane and I asked if he had called anyone else and/or was just checking prices...he said I was about the 7th he'd called...I said I wont give you price but thanks for the call..click.......it feels right even if I need calls


It feels very good not to play their game. :yes:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I cannot see myself asking 'have you received any quotes or how many quotes have you received?"
> 
> Asking this question could be planting a seed in the prospective customer's mind. I envision this happening, "No, I called you because my friend referred you and I wanted to get an idea of the cost before scheduling."
> 
> ...


 
You are reading too much into this question . This question is asked after a few minutes on the phone and information is gathered. In the case you explained you have a history where she did not do the work. A quick look in the ar and it would tell me she is a quote person.I would have asked her what happened to the last job and let her talk. Blindly asking any question will plant a seed in the clients mind.Have a purpose with the questions.

You know as well as I do we can have information in a matter of seconds when we let the client speak. Your example the client told you she had 2 other quotes. A few timely questions would have given you that information before a price is or was given out.

When the information given is to technical for the average client it is a red flag that the client has had previous communication with a trade professional. Once in a while we will run across the client that has knowledge however that is such a small percentage that I am not going to worry about those kinds of clients in a forum piece.We generally have a feeling with the information a client gives us of who and what they want.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> Richard Hilliard said:
> 
> 
> > I would have asked her what happened to the last job and let her talk. Blindly asking any question will plant a seed in the clients mind. Have a purpose with the questions.
> ...


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Rw that is a fantastic thing to be the one to fix what others cannot. The only problem every plumber out there makes the same statement and often it is a false statement. Who is the client to believe?

Personally I do not care if a client has received other prices. In today’s economic climate we must be prepared to understand the client is informed and has meet with other companies. Meet with me and it does not matter what other plumbers charge and in many cases the client understands the difference and chooses to do business with our company. This client is now part of our extended family. I have the attitude that price does not matter and what matters are me and my difference and what I bring to the table.

 Most of our existing clients do not ask price, I cannot say all as we know there is never an always. Our success rate is very high and referrals are as strong as our existing clients. They are given by our existing client base. I know I preach this and it is all about communication and effective communication. Having the ability to pass information that the client understands and acknowledges is highly beneficial.

We are not interested in new construction or remodeling unless it is with an existing client. We may consider doing the remodel at this point. Remodeling and new work begs for a reduced price to begin with to compete against those who are doing this kind of work.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Rw that is a fantastic thing to be the one to fix what others cannot. The only problem every plumber out there makes the same statement and often it is a false statement.


Actually I do fix things quite often that have been ongoing problems for a long time and have maintained less than 1% callbacks on both plumbing and drain cleaning jobs...:whistling2:

I'm sure there are a number of other plumbers here that are the same as well!:yes:

Quite often I do run into price shoppers that just bought their new kitchen sink faucet and disposer at big box inc. thinking that I should play beat that price with the big box installer, CraigsList hack or whatever...

They don't get the price from me...
Instead they are told, "What the hell did you call me for. Have them do it! Here's my card call us when you want it fixed.":furious::furious:

I then call in for my next job and if they have any additional questions they can chase me to my truck asking them!:laughing:

They need to figure out for themselves when they are comparing apples to apples or, apples to lemons...

Sooner or, later they might figure it out...
I've got plenty to do with others until they do.
Until then their shiot plumbing really doesn't concern me...:whistling2:

If they are comparing my plumbing to a big box installer or, a CraigsList hack we are too far apart to waste my time. Next!


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Rw that is a fantastic thing to be the one to fix what others cannot. The only problem every plumber out there makes the same statement and often it is a false statement. Who is the client to believe


 
The client doesn't need to believe anything because I don't walk around telling people how much better I am. I prove it each and every day. I prove it when it takes me half the time and it looks twice as good as the competition. I would say AT LEAST once a week I go into someone's home and see some obviously easy fix to a problem that has plagued a homeowner for a long time.

Most of the time they get a quote to fix the wrong thing or they had another service out several times with the problem not being fixed. I haven't advertised in YEARS yet, I still have work. I must be doing something right if I get refered to others. Let's be honest with ourselves here, it isn't exactly rocket science to do residential service. There isn't that many different configurations of plumbing in a 1 and 2 family dwelling. 

The keys to my business right or wrong are: 1. Use quality materials I can stand behind, 2. Be as honest and straight forward as possible, 3. Fix the ENTIRE problem(meaning don't patch a drain line if it should be replaced. and lastly, Work neatly but as efficiently as possible(especially important on hourly).


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*some people are too much*

RW and Redwood, you have the wrong assumption. I do not care about my competition. I do not talk about my competition. I do not bad mouth my competition. I do not need to do that in order to receive the job. The only way I lose a call is due to what I have said, did not say, do or did not do. The other guy has no bearing on what I do with and for my client. It does not matter how well or unpleasant the other company is. It is my attitude and passion for what I do that carries me past obstacles.

With that being said I would agree with the rest of your forum post about the qualities of high performance. I would add to honesty having high ethics and integrity and it is a perfect formula for success. Sure once in awhile a client will be a price shopper where price is a deciding factor and can be frustrating but that is there defense mechanism to being pressured by others and being sold items that are not up to snuff in the past. There must be a door built to help the client walk through with you together instead of as adversaries pulling in opposite directions.

I love the client that walks out of their garage and meets me at my truck door demanding a price. I immediately know and understand what has happened to this client in the past. If there is no value, communication and trust there is no business. All I am required to do is discover the client’s perceived value of the job and me and do the job.

A great question is why am I here? I do not have to ask the client this question. I already know the answer, there was no trust, value built by the others who gave a price whether it be lower or higher. Otherwise that company would be there or have it already installed.

I have no doubt you are highly qualified to do what you do that was never my intent to suggest otherwise. That is only part of the job and plays the role it is suppose to play. I am not suggesting doing it to the client or talking him or her into doing something they do not want to do. That is not ethical. There is no pounding on the chest and swinging on vines to impress the client there is no need for that kind of behavior.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

So Richard are you suggesting that others who make quick judgement of a customer's worth are missing it? If someone calls for 7 prices am I to say " and what has made you call 7 people sir, what are you looking for..(so I can pull you thru the door).." or perhaps that kind of customer will only cleave to one or two of the lowest prices..and I have determined that in short order without any questions asked. I know my price is higher and I dont at that point want to assist them at all other than a polite good bye. Is that missing the "opportunity boat"?. I do like the attitude of my competion has no bearing on what I do ...but I wonder if that isnt mental gymnastics.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Richard, I think you are missing the point.

If a customer is looking for a rock bottom price then they need to go with the one they already have. I have no interest in cutting corners lowering the quality of my work to match a rock bottom price. 

When they realize that faucets and sink drains shouldn't drip and ruin their new cabinets, and water heaters should be something that you don't have to wake up in the morning and wonder if you will have hot water available then they are probably ready to stop buying those Whirlpool FlameGuard & EnergySmart waterheaters from Blowe's and be my customer.

Rock bottom plumbing is not my specialty and never will be. My plumbing works and I could care less about theirs until they are ready to pay the price associated with good plumbing. Simply telling them that they are comparing apples to lemons and telling them to call you back when they are ready for quality is sufficient. Why waste your time doing anything else.They are not buying it until they have had enough of the rotten taste. I'm not putting my name on anything rotten!

So yea... Stop wasting my time I have plenty of customers that want good plumbing that aren't expecting me to meet rock bottom prices...


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Time is Money..

So why would anybody in their right mind waste time on price shoppers.

I give them about 5 minutes tops of my time.... Then on to the next one...

If I was fishing I would want to catch the big one ... and release all the small fries.

You know from the start if it is all about money when they call then it will turn into a small paying job.

You are better off having one high profit job than 10 low profit jobs


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> RW and Redwood, you have the wrong assumption. I do not care about my competition. I do not talk about my competition. I do not bad mouth my competition. I do not need to do that in order to receive the job. The only way I lose a call is due to what I have said, did not say, do or did not do. The other guy has no bearing on what I do with and for my client. It does not matter how well or unpleasant the other company is. It is my attitude and passion for what I do that carries me past obstacles.
> 
> With that being said I would agree with the rest of your forum post about the qualities of high performance. I would add to honesty having high ethics and integrity and it is a perfect formula for success. Sure once in awhile a client will be a price shopper where price is a deciding factor and can be frustrating but that is there defense mechanism to being pressured by others and being sold items that are not up to snuff in the past. There must be a door built to help the client walk through with you together instead of as adversaries pulling in opposite directions.
> 
> ...


 Clients percieved value is just a fancy word. I don't believe that I am in control in all situations in relation to getting a job. Some people simply want the lowest price. You can try to get their "percieved value" up but, there are people that don't care about value. They don't care if you use radiatior hose to run a drain line. They just want it for 20 bucks. Even if you can explain that if you pay a lousy price you get lousy work, and even if they eventually agree it isn't worth it. 

I can smooth talk a price shopper to a job but it is almost never worth it. They nickel and dime you to death over everything and if you have an extra or something is more work than you expected, forget getting any additional money. I am a professional and as such, I only deal with people looking for a professional. If they want low quality work and a rock bottom price they can call Nacho valasquez and his brother Julio to run some rubber hose and hose clamps for their new water line.

Redwood and Old School hit the nail on the head, it simply isn't worth trying to convince a bottom dollar shopper that you get what you pay for. Just today I passed on a call to a customer I've worked for in the past. She doesn't have very much money, and cannot pay my going rate. I feel bad but, I'm a plumbing contractor not a charity. Try explaining to her about "customer percieved value" when she is going to lose her home due to non-payment. You can't take blood from a stone and it's not worth it to even try.


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## CSINEV (Aug 6, 2010)

Dam! I post one rant about a customer, go away for a few days and come back to 59 replies. 

OK here is the thing I live in Las Vegas the valley is home to about two million people, plus another 500,000 people who come and go at various times during the week, not including holidays.

We have about 200 licensed plumbing contractors and service companies in the valley, with another 200 unlicensed wan-ta-bees. We also have some where around 100 handyman services both illegal and legal who will do plumbing if given the chance. Our local plumbing union has an out-of-work list about 800 men deep and our construction labor unemployment is at about 30% of 80,000 men with regular unemployment at about 15% of two million.

To say things are tuff is an under statement. I have no problem competing with other companies, hell I often go up against handymen and unemployed plumbers. :yes: You don't have the luxury of picking and choosing your jobs, you must go after every one you can make money on and sale sale sale. You better be willing to do it for enough money to make a reasonable profit and that is it. People in this economy WILL NOT pay top dollar anymore. 

What I was more pissed about is the total lack of respect for our profession and a total and complete lack of understanding of what we do or how important it is.

Yes word of mouth is important, but what they are saying means more. If you are talked about kindly by someone who liked your work that is good. :thumbsup: But if someone says hey this guy was fast, and affordable that's great!:thumbup:

People only care about one thing, money. And it's our job as a salesman to convince them that parting with it is a wise choice over the long run.
In this economy that is a very hard sale most of the time.

I've had people go without a hot water heater for weeks because the don't want to pay for a new one and risk not having that money just in case. I've also had people go without running water for up to a month and just buy bottled because they can't afford the repair or they are afraid to spend any money because they might loose their job. This is the reality we live in every day. It's not pretty.


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