# In need of a journeymans oppinion



## george64 (Feb 10, 2016)

I'm a second year apprentice and just moved to Calgary Ab (canada) from bc.
I'm three weeks in with a new service company and have been in a few "disagreements" with my boss.

So I get a call for a backed up water closet in a commercial building on the way in I notice the building is way lower then the street so first thing I ask is where is the sewage pump. Find it pumps not running and diagnose that it is  and that the piping is 1.5" abs so I replace pump and re pipe the line to 2" pvc with a check ball valve to meet code, now my boss is giving me **** about replacing the pipe saying it wasn't necessary and a waste of time.

next job is that something in the upstairs bathroom is leaking into the down stairs kitchen but only a couple drops once and awhile so I test the toilet no leaks and it is not caulked so i can see the floor is dry next is the basin and faucet test it all and the over flow and nothing so onto the tub I run the tub and nothing fill to the over flow and nothing run the shower head and nothing I notice that the tile is 3/4" up from the bottom of the tub and has no caulking on it so I deem that to be where the water is coming from and clean and recaulk it. boss says that we don't caulk tubs and that I should of replaced the wax seal on the water closet, when I asked why I could see it was not leaking and he reply's with the bill wasn't high enough.

for snake calls he says if I find some thing lodged in the P-trap i should snake the drain anyways just for show and charge the 250$ for the service

I should go through customers houses and proactively try and find problems to get the bill up 

to always check the flapper regardless of what i am actually there for and if any black residue comes off to replace and bill customer regardless of if it leaks or not.

that I should not put vacuum breakers or blowdown tubes on HWTs because its a waste of money even though it is a code requirement here

the list goes on Im not sure how to handle this or if this is normal for city plumbing, I'm from a town with a population of 3000. or should I run away from this company as fast as I can? To me this seems like a sketchy outfit that only cares about the $


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

Sounds like he just wants you to sell sell sell. Which to some establishments that's what they do. But if he is making you replace things that don't need to just so the bill is high, that's kinda shady. Are you still an apprentice...if so is he sending you to jobs by yourself


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Find a different company to work for you will never make your boss happy or you will always find fault in his ways of doing things. Three weeks and already finding that you and the company are at odds is not good.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

You should move on to a different outfit.


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## george64 (Feb 10, 2016)

I'm a second year apprentice with 3 years of experience, I have my own van and work by my self


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

george64 said:


> I'm a second year apprentice with 3 years of experience, I have my own van and work by my self


it all depends...being proactive in selling service and repairs is our business( as plumbers)..I explain to the customer first, why something should be replaced even if at the time it is not a problem or actively leaking and let the customer decide..they have final say..many times im thanked for seeing a small issue before it becomes a big issue that will cause water damage and a more expensive repair..gouging customers gets you no where fast..a city of 3000 is small..in my county that geographically is small there are over 2.5 million people..just in the 1 county alone..how many companies do you have a choice working for? also here its illegal to work for yourself without insurance..when you say you have your own van and work by yourself, is that for the company or for yourself on the side?


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## bowta360 (Jan 17, 2016)

Here it's against code to be dishonest about your work. Basically, if you get caught charging the customer something completely unnecessary the plumbing board can get involved and invoke disciplinary actions. There was a case here where a plumber did that to a customer, not realizing the customer was a plumbing inspector. He lied to him about what was required in his house just to rack up a hefty bill. The plumber ended up paying for it when all was said and done.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

george64 said:


> I'm a second year apprentice with 3 years of experience, I have my own van and work by my self


 Here you can not work on your own until you are a journeyman. Don't set yourself up with a bad name over this guy just move on.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

It might depend on what kind of plumbing you want to do. I don't have to deal with that stuff in commercial. Regardless, sounds like it's time to go.


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

I don't believe servicing a line even if the stoppage is in the trap is a bad thing.
Your covering your self from a callback, 

In my opinion use your best judgment in building a call, but give the customer quality craftsmanship. 

You can sell a customer honestly:
For example: a call for a toilet leaking at the base.

You can sell them an new angle stop, supply line along with resetting the toilet.
(Quality work)

While your there run the tub/shower
Chances are the fixture will drain slow.
Offer to snake the line at a discount since your already there.

You gave the customer quality service 
That will benefit them in the long run
And built the call ?

It seems your boss is best left in the dark, without to many details from each call. Don't get in a code or ethics debate with him, remember your an apprentice.

You can learn a lot from a good boss, but you can learn even more from a bad one.


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## george64 (Feb 10, 2016)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> it all depends...being proactive in selling service and repairs is our business( as plumbers)..I explain to the customer first, why something should be replaced even if at the time it is not a problem or actively leaking and let the customer decide..they have final say..many times im thanked for seeing a small issue before it becomes a big issue that will cause water damage and a more expensive repair..gouging customers gets you no where fast..a city of 3000 is small..in my county that geographically is small there are over 2.5 million people..just in the 1 county alone..how many companies do you have a choice working for? also here its illegal to work for yourself without insurance..when you say you have your own van and work by yourself, is that for the company or for yourself on the side?


Company van and time just running the calls by my self, I never do side jobs Im scared ****less of the liability if I screwed up


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## gdplmr (Apr 17, 2014)

Your boss needs to meet his overhead at the minimum. That being said you will find in this business that few if any employers will be fair or even likable. I have been in the trade full time since 1984 mostly in new construction and commercial/residential service. The best advice i can give is learn as much as you can about your craft. Your knowledge level and your pay level go hand in hand. What really sucks is when you have a Inferior Superior situation. A person above you whom takes all the credit and gives only blame. Be wary of these situations. Do not lessen yourself and take the frustration home to your family. Save a knuckle sandwich for the guy whom deserves it and don't be afraid to stand up for what is right. Remember its only money.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

If you stay there you will no longer be called a plumber, you will be called a sales tech


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## ruddiger (Jul 21, 2009)

Looks like your from my neck of the woods. I worked for a company in Calgary that does things the way you're describing. It IS all about sales with them. They expected $1500 sales from each tech... not plumber, tech. They expected sales of "diamond clubs", that useless drain maid, a home inspection etc, etc. If its the company making their plumbers wear ties. Run like hell.


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## JayAre (Mar 5, 2013)

Im in Calgary as well, just out of curiosity is it Pete you're working for?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

To the OP, you sound like someone I'd love to have on my team. I like your analistic way of approaching things. Don't guess I've ever suggested replacing anything that didn't need it imo, but if working on something and notice a nearby fitting/component etc, that is working fine but not far from giving troubles I simply bring it up to them and let them decide. They appreciate it always. But document carefully exactly what you do to cya later. From the bosses perspective, he is trying to keep the billable's paying as much as possible to meet expences and of course to make a profit.
Good job.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

just out of curiosity was you boss also pissed off because you did not charge enough for the calls that you ran for him ??? How much was he expecting you to gross per day for him and on average what did you bring in every day?? 

It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of service plumbing and the boss is basically just a je/ prick..... I know the type that you are working for..... Is he actually paying you a decent wage or is it all comission??

We have a few of These pricks in our town too and they dont pay their employees nothing but comission on what they sell... They deceive and entice young guys with promises of future bonuses and usually after 90 days of slavery there is some sort of full benefit medical program for their whole family... sure... yea right.. you bet.... stay tuned........

Like the other guy stated you will probably learn a lot more from a prick over a good decent employer ....

just dont be turned towards the dark side....



on a side note, you boss might be right about a few things that you are doing like installing vaccumm breakers on water heaters... that is a total complete joke and a waste of time..

The change out of a sewage pump line that works fine but is undersized might be something that could have been left alone too..... it just depends on what kind of money you made doing it......

..and maybe you are actually too much going by the book....
it is not a bible..... ....,


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## george64 (Feb 10, 2016)

JayAre said:


> Im in Calgary as well, just out of curiosity is it Pete you're working for?


No not for Pete, did run into a guy who does work for them at the wholesaler and he hated working for them


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## george64 (Feb 10, 2016)

Master Mark said:


> just out of curiosity was you boss also pissed off because you did not charge enough for the calls that you ran for him ??? How much was he expecting you to gross per day for him and on average what did you bring in every day??
> 
> It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of service plumbing and the boss is basically just a je/ prick..... I know the type that you are working for..... Is he actually paying you a decent wage or is it all comission??
> 
> ...


No commission just by the hour, they pay me well 25 an hour, was told complete medical and dental after my 3 months is up. there is no set amount we need to make as far as I am actual told, and for billing customers we charge by the piece and have a pricing book that we go buy and if not sure i just call him and ask what he wants to charge


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## dazedel8 (Feb 24, 2016)

Im from Calgary too. You're going to find that ego means a lot more out here than money.. my theory is the boom we had between 03-09 put a lot of people in high positions without them necessarily having enough experience. When i was working between those years i found that the people who moved up were definatly the people who got in good with the bosses and just sewered everybody else when they were out for beers. Trust me, moving companies may not make a difference. You're just going to end up with another company with another set of *******s at the top. 

Companies here can survive a LONG time and do terrible/shady work because of there were so few tradesmen and so much money available. We're only now starting to see some of these places go broke. Finally.


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

Do your dillagence and locate an honest employer...you will be happier and sleep better at night. I detest any company or plumber that takes advantage of his customers. Just do a great job and you will be fine with a good Contractor.


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