# Have you ever?



## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Installed Orion Acid Waste piping?

We are doing some chemistry labs and are having multiple leaks on 4” fittings only.
1-1/2 through 3” is ok. Eventually, we will be installing some 6” as well.

So far I’ve gone through and tried adjusting bands, tightening and loosening bands, replaced some questionable bands but to no avail. 

Anyone have any tips on what to try next before I get the rep out?

As always, I appreciate it.

Thanks, Stan


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Stan, I have a thought, a theory really. Maybe you received a bad batch of bands. I would try substituting a regular cast iron no-hub band in place of the leaking band to see if that corrects the situation. If it does, then maybe the rubber bands for the chemical waste piping is bad.


Just a thought.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I bet the rubber in the bands are too oily from china. Also we have to start checking out for counterfeit plumbing products. I have received my ascoiation magazine and they've made an article about fake threaded rod. They use less metal and the threads are thinner which can fail. Have you ever seen pipe break off from hangers? A freaking scary thing when the whole room looks like its going to collapse and the pipe swings towards you.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> I bet the rubber in the bands are too oily from china. Also we have to start checking out for counterfeit plumbing products. I have received my ascoiation magazine and they've made an article about fake threaded rod. They use less metal and the threads are thinner which can fail. Have yo ever seen pipe break off from hangers? A freaking scary thing when the whole room looks like its going to collapse and the pipe swinging at you.


We've got threaded rod before that looks like they galv dipped it 5 times. "Are those really threads?"

Rather than send it back, my boss made me cut them to length and run a tap on the first 4" of the rod to make them useable.

:vs_mad:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Is that PVC with clamps in the pictures or asbestos/concrete pipe?

If it's PVC why clamps and not glued?


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## CT-18 (Jun 27, 2016)

I have used Orion fusible back in the day but never the clamp type. We had several issues with poorly fused joints. Have you contacted them to find out if they can test the clamps to make sure they are operating properly. I have also worked with the glass pipe, not sure if it was Orion or not. We had better luck with the glass connections then the fusible ones.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

It's Orion PVDF plenum rated plastic.$$$

I've installed the Orion blue line with minimal problems and this stuff feels almost identical. 

Aside from possible slightly dirty fittings, like drywall dust or maybe hand oil as mentioned, everything has gone together pretty good. It's a pre-fab job so only a few field cuts.

We're going to try to take some apart and clean them. Put a few together dry and a few wet to see if it helps? 

Tommy, I'm sure a regular band would work just fine. These bands are like a hard rubber that doesn't want to conform very well.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I've never installed that stuff but I see only one rib in the rubber and one groove on the fitting. Could it be the groove is not deep enough, proper shape or are large enough or not aligned to accommodate the rib? Just think of it like victaulic joint. Then when tightening the clamp do the guys tighten the nuts in sequence until the proper torque is achieved? It could be the rubber is squished leaving some gaps.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Random joints, horizontal or vertical?

Horizontal are all clamps on the top side? 11 to 2 o'clock


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

89plumbum said:


> It's Orion PVDF plenum rated plastic.$$$
> 
> I've installed the Orion blue line with minimal problems and this stuff feels almost identical.
> 
> ...


can you soak the rubber part in hot water to soften them up and just wipe them dry before use to help them conform to the pipe?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> can you soak the rubber part in hot water to soften them up and just wipe them dry before use to help them conform to the pipe?


We used to put our glue in a cardboard box with a 500 watt lamp to keep it warm beside my step ladder doing condos in the winter. We'd rotate several "brush in the can" pots

Maybe warm the bands in a similar fashion?

Also over here is you install bands on cast iron when its cold they will all leak when it warms up. It doesn't matter if you torque them more they are going to leak.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

GAN said:


> Random joints, horizontal or vertical?
> 
> Horizontal are all clamps on the top side? 11 to 2 o'clock


Both. Yes, most clamps on top, but It didn't seem to make a difference for the few that were not.

My guys spent a good day going around readjusting and making sure every clamp was properly tightened. Found a few where the metal shield was completely missing. As of right now it's holding and the inspector is on his way. 

So far, the 4" has been the most finicky.


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## callmemaster (Oct 14, 2018)

1st call shouldve been to rep. ive never had any trouble using this system.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

callmemaster said:


> 1st call shouldve been to rep. ive never had any trouble using this system.


We did, 2- months before we even started installing it. Their replies were about as useless as yours...:vs_cool:


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Don't just call the rep, get his ass out on the job site. Use your wholesaler as leverage. I'd be in the manager's office about to blow a gasket just to let him know I'm serious. The rep is there to help. If all else fails, I'd call tech support at Orion. If you are following manufacturer's instructions, it's on them to figure out what is going wrong.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

We actually met with the reps at our shop previous to starting the work. Our crew, another crew doing hospital work and our pre- fab shop. We discussed installation procedures and potential problems. They acted like it was a leak free product and didn't have much to offer. We got it now and should be fine the rest of the project. We still have to run quite a bit of 4" and 6" to the neutralization tank. Just one floor contains 37 lab sinks and 16 fume hoods. I'd be weary of someone who says they've installed that much AW without any problems.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

We were able to complete the rest of the acid waste down to the basement with less problems. Just keeping your connections square and bands warm on cold days helped a lot. Still had a few leaks though. Thankfully the testing is pretty much over. I appreciate all your responses. Now, hopefully everything is roughed in correctly. The islands, have water, drain & gas. The fume hoods do as well.


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