# Durapex Pipe Failure



## DUNBAR PLUMBING

PEX PIPE FAILURE

Check out post #40, and the last post that was drudged up by a victim of this piping system.




> Durapex was bought out by the Nibco INC. of Elkhart Indiana. Calling them or their reps is virtually worthless.
> 
> 
> We used Dura-Pex for a number of years and had switched over to Rehau a few years back


 
Awe DAMN! If that guy only knows about what's going on with REHAU, and why they left the country. 


Apparently this is more than an isolated case, otherwise the thread would of perished in 2008. So far there's 3 with problems so that means there's hundreds if not thousands with this piping.



Since I'm a hambone in the pot of good controversy,






, 


I have decided to build a website, a domain was purchased that will catch these failures as they create themselves. I'll pick up the data and show what is going on in a state-by-state basis with the court cases, the damage to property and liability claims, and if I can, 

I'm going to post the plumbing companies that used these piping systems. 

This is my contribution to the plumbing profession to protect the people, for the people, and for the future of our profession. 

Too many cheerleaders of this product, too many class action lawsuits resulting of these numerous brands at this point failing with the property owner stuck with no ability to get recourse for these matters. All because it was "easy" and "cheap" for the installer. 

I feel very protected by my choices, and for my customers ATVPT.

*LETS ROLL*


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## Wethead

Awesome!!!! Nice


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## nhmaster3015

Here's one for you I just pulled off Terry's site.

I hope someone can help me or at least point me in the right direction. 

We built our house in 1999 (completed) and the house is plumbed with PEX. In the last six months, the PEX line coming from our water heater has split three times (hot water side). Each time we have had it replaced and each split has been farther down the run each time. The entire affected length appears to be approximately 4 feet. The water heater is in the attic, we are on county (treated) water and live in central NC. We have a PRV and expansion tank. The splits are not near a joint, fitting or bend and are lengthwise (almost like a seam "split" ) at about 1-2 inches in length. I am not sure who the manufacturer is ( there is a logo I am still trying to ID for contact info), but my plumber says it looks like CPI (NIBCO) pex. The manufacture date on the PEX says October 1998 (we started building in September 1998). We have not had any problems anywhere else in the house...

Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? I thought this stuff was supposed to last a lot longer. I know that if PEX is exposed to sunlight it can be affected, but I am pretty sure this was not the case when our home was built...
I have tried to include as much info as I can...
Any help would be greatly appreciated...
THANKS!!!


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## para1

I love it when a plan comes together.

I am so happy we got out of the new construction game when this crap was getting popular and never put in a single home we built. We did however use it in some remodels and commercial additions that were specd. for it.


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## Wethead

Para, are you a copper man like me?


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## nhmaster3015

Tread lightly fella's, you might be hurting folks feelings Let's all try and be respectful of others peoples products and methods.


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## nhmaster3015

Some more fodder for the cannon.


I'm in the office of a plumbing company in Charlotte NC and we do residential as well as other phases of plumbing. We used Dura-Pex for a number of years and had switched over to Rehau a few years back. We've experienced many of the instance that is shown in the photos here in the last couple years. It's ONLY Dura-pex ( so far ) , ONLY on the hot side , and in a couple year span of construction which leads us to believe it is a bad batch.

The majority of the houses we installed it in had PRVs but not Expansion tanks which were not code at the time. We've put them on the houses that experienced the problems afterwards hoping to alleviate any further splitting.

Here is what I know. Durapex was bought out by the Nibco INC. of Elkhart Indiana. Calling them or their reps is virtually worthless.

We have been given a number that has helped many homeowners and will continue to issue it once the problem is identified as a defective Dura-pex pipe. The company is the *Chubb Group of Insurance Companies of Warren NJ, and their number is 908-903-2000. Their fax is 908-903-2027*. They seem to be the one in charge of handling claims on Dura-pex issues.

I'm not buying the scratches on the exterior of the pipe having anything to do with this issue and having seen it first hand many times I'm convinced and it's obvious that it is a manufacturing or error in the chemical makeup of the pipe. I've been told before that recirculation pumps decrease the life of the pex on the hot side due to it replicating years of use in a short time. Either way the pipe can be defective but it's only on the hot, right near the heater ( usually ), and a very, very small percentage of pipe out there. I could list many problems and errors with copper fittings and tubing/pipe if you like. No pipe system is perfect.

Bad batch seems to be the best explanation.

FYI, I've also seen one instance of perpendicular splitting on a pex pipe and there is never a " scratch " or hole near the site that isn't caused by the defect splitting from the inside out.

It would take a very talented plumber to scratch the inside of a 3/4" or 1/2" pex tube in the middle. ( insert rim-shot here ).


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## user823

I'm not sure about that brand of pex, but I do know that when using Wirsbo and Viega it's CLEARLY stated not to run pex directly to a Gas water heater because of the flue piping. All of my gas water heater installations using pex are plumbed with brass off the water heater, elbow out and then back up keeping the pex away from the flue pipe. 
Like anything else, if you don't install something correctly you will have problems.


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## user823

Also Nhmaster, you get upset when I or anyone else brings up pex because we like the product, you want the threads removed etc. because you said it's been gone over and over. YET, you continue to post this kind of negativity constantly? I don't get it. We're all entitled to our opinions. Please do not ask for threads to be removed as long as you're still posting your side of it too. This isn't YOUR message board. Last night you called me a "hack" because I use pex and studor vents on occasion. The thread was removed after your post, though I did save it first. Let everyone give their opinions nhmaster without the insults ok?
I'm not arguing with you, I just want it played on an even field.


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## nhmaster3015

oh god give me a break.


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## 22rifle

I used Durapex one time. It was in an emergency. I went back and replaced it the following week. I have never trusted that stuff.

So I read this and it's hard to not say "well, I was right".

As far as the person from Charlotte, NC... I spent 5 years in that area. Craftsmanship is a foreign word and concept to the vast majority of hacks, er, I mean plumbers in that area.

The "good" guys did as ****ty work as the "bad" guys did in Colorado. I have never seen more hack crap than in that area. Would walk into a multi-million dollar home on Lake Norman and leave thoroughly pissed because of the absolute crap plumbing.

You can't even buy a pipe reamer at the supply house. No one had ever asked for one until I came along. One of those supply houses was one of the highest volume HD Supply stores in the Southwest USA.

ALMOST everyone down there has one criteria. CHEAP. People will put 89 cent plastic p-traps into a 1.5 million dollar home. I saw it. They will spend a bit more money on the fixtures. No problem there. But on quality products and craftsmanship? Forget it. I am sure that here and there you could find a good plumber. I met a couple who seemed to care. But even they didn't ream their copper pipes. I interviewed with a company in Charlotte (Huntersville I think it was) that had 40+ trucks on the road. One of the guys interviewing me was an owner, as well as the licensed plumbing contractor for the company. I asked if they used PEX. "No, we use that flexible plastic pipe. It comes in red, blue, or white and you crimp it like that grey stuff." I told them to throw my application away.

So I don't really give a crap what some dude in Charlotte, NC thinks. His company is probably a hack outfit anyways. They most likely used the cheapest crap possible. They deserve their troubles.


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## nhmaster3015

I am going to say this one more time. If I could I would scream it in your face so that perhaps you would actually listen for a change.

My company uses more pex in a year than you have installed in your lifetime. We have been using Uponor for better than 10 years. We do a crap load of radiant in slab and staple up systems with it. We like it, we use it. That DOES NOT keep me from keeping a VERY WARY eye on the product and others like it. I have been around a long long time, a Dinosaur as you like to put it. A dinosaur that got his ass burned when PolyButylene bit the big one. Your faith in viega is admirable to say the least. I sincerely hope that there are no product failures whatsoever for any pex manufacturer or installer, but I'll be damned if I will stuff my head in the sand and hope for the best. One more time...Read Carefully. I\WE don't give a rat's hind end what brand of pex you use. It is totally up to you and your comfort zone. I posted those pictures and commentary for it's applicability to the thread. If you wish to argue with the pictures and text than by all means add your commentary and opinion, we will read it. In the meantime get the hell off my back. I may well be a dinosaur in your opinion, but I'm a dinosaur with a hell of a lot of experiance and knowledge in the industry because it is my job. Take a second and read my bio.


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## 22rifle

nhmaster3015 said:


> I am going to say this one more time. If I could I would scream it in your face so that perhaps you would actually listen for a change.
> 
> My company uses more pex in a year than you have installed in your lifetime. We have been using Uponor for better than 10 years. We do a crap load of radiant in slab and staple up systems with it. We like it, we use it. That DOES NOT keep me from keeping a VERY WARY eye on the product and others like it. I have been around a long long time, a Dinosaur as you like to put it. A dinosaur that got his ass burned when PolyButylene bit the big one. Your faith in viega is admirable to say the least. I sincerely hope that there are no product failures whatsoever for any pex manufacturer or installer, but I'll be damned if I will stuff my head in the sand and hope for the best. One more time...Read Carefully. I\WE don't give a rat's hind end what brand of pex you use. It is totally up to you and your comfort zone. I posted those pictures and commentary for it's applicability to the thread. If you wish to argue with the pictures and text than by all means add your commentary and opinion, we will read it. In the meantime get the hell off my back. I may well be a dinosaur in your opinion, but I'm a dinosaur with a hell of a lot of experiance and knowledge in the industry because it is my job. Take a second and read my bio.


Chill man. I wasn't jumping your case. I was bashing the "cheap" mentality. And I believe Durapex goes with that. Oh, and I was pointing out the guy in NC was most likely part of that freaking "cheap" mentality.


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## Wethead

nhmaster3015 said:


> I am going to say this one more time. If I could I would scream it in your face so that perhaps you would actually listen for a change.


Here let the wet heads help you


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## nhmaster3015

22rifle said:


> Chill man. I wasn't jumping your case. I was bashing the "cheap" mentality. And I believe Durapex goes with that. Oh, and I was pointing out the guy in NC was most likely part of that freaking "cheap" mentality.


Oh crap, sorry bud, that was not directed at you. I forgot the quote thing. It was directed at Mr Ranger.


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## user823

nhmaster3015 said:


> Oh crap, sorry bud, that was not directed at you. I forgot the quote thing. It was directed at Mr Ranger.


Oh, thanks!:laughing: No problem, but if you're going to post the negative I'll continue to post the positive. If that drives you crazy then I'm sorry. LOL


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## nhmaster3015

I think we all know the positives, it's the negatives that scare us a little.


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## nhmaster3015

Oh, before I forget and way off topic. 22, when you were in Charlotte did you ever go to the Paper Doll Lounge?


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## user823

nhmaster3015 said:


> I think we all know the positives, it's the negatives that scare us a little.


I guess the problem I'm having with you is that you're trying to bunch the entire pex industry together along with the older poly crap too. Like all materials there is good and bad. We all know there are some very bad faucets and toilets etc. out there, do we bunch them all together and say all faucets are bad, we should keep an eye on them. Seriously, that's what you sound like!


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## 22rifle

nhmaster3015 said:


> Oh, before I forget and way off topic. 22, when you were in Charlotte did you ever go to the Paper Doll Lounge?


Nah, I had more than I could handle at home.


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## pzmember

thats it. if you like pex useit, if you like copper use it. i dont care which one you use. pay your libility insurance and lets quit pissin in the wind.:whistling2:


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## nhmaster3015

I'm pretty sure I have never bunched anything together. At this point there are only a few failure related problems and they seem to be fitting related though this Nibco thing might go somewhere. For the record I have never said that Viega has had even one single product related failure. I'm merely keeping a wary eye on all of them including Uponor. I have reported (note the word reported) that there have been cases where Wattspex was rejected by a local inspector due to it's restrictive fittings. I again said countless times that I and others in the area were outraged by those incidents but it still happened. I've had enough smoke blown up my ass over the years that I should have cancer by now. So I am very cautious about products, all products. Want to get me started on tankless heaters?:yes:


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## nhmaster3015

22rifle said:


> Nah, I had more than I could handle at home.


I only stopped by for the live bands. :whistling2:


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## 22rifle

nhmaster3015 said:


> I only stopped by for the live bands. :whistling2:


They have live nude bands? Wow.

LOL


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## Redwood

nhmaster3015 said:


> I only stopped by for the live bands. :whistling2:


Live bands wearing stripper shoes?:laughing:


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## nhmaster3015

AnI have read many discussions regarding Pex and just wante to let you know our problem. Please keep in mind, my house is only 2 years old and is 4,500 sq. ft. located in Southern California. Friday night, we found a lot of water leaking from our 2nd floor to our first, soaking our ceiling, walls, a door frame and carpet. We called out a plumber and after cutting a couple holes he discovered a leak in our Pex line caused by mice. It was repaired. Saturday, a second line in a garage wall began leaking. This time I opened up the wall and discovered 3 seperate locations where the mice were chewing threw our lines like it is candy or something. Now, I am faced with the very real likelyhood of more lines going any day, because I know they have been chewing on them anywhere they have access to them. I urge all the plumbers on here to consider this when they are putting Pex lines in homes. To repipe a house of this size is something I can't afford. What are your oppinions on going after the builder for this? I just don't know what to do, but I know a 2 year old house should not have to be going through this. I am at a loss while waiting for the next leak. Yes, I have put poison in every crawl space, attic, garage cupboards, etc. Hopefully, I don't kill my pets in the process. Any advice would be very helpfull. You can email me directly if you don't want to post here.other for your collection Duck.


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