# What Toilet



## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

When recommending a new toilet to homeowners, what is your top choice AND WHY?


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

1929chrysler said:


> When recommending a new toilet to homeowners, what is your top choice AND WHY?


It all depends on the customer's budget.

I like TOTO. It's well built. Has a denser porcelain easy to install (except the skirted models)

For mid range, there is the standard kohlers and American standards

builders grade, Gerber is all I use. Best flushing cheap toilet.

I'll probably get some criticism but IDGAS!


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Western Pottery is hard to beat for the price


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

Will said:


> Western Pottery is hard to beat for the price


I agree. I sell Western and if it's more high end I push Toto.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Toto simply because I feel they have the best flush, not to mention the testing backs that up. As far as them being "high end" I get toto drakes for almost the same price as a Kohler cimarron, which is also a good toilet IMO. Toto does have more high end products as well not arguing that fact.


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## jtmell (Apr 27, 2013)

Gerber Viper
large water surface area, Cleaner
water spins in bowl ,does not drop, Cleaner
Parts are not specialized, regular size timed flapper, easy and inexpensive to repair


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## Keefer w (Jan 26, 2012)

At one time Gerber tank to bowl gaskets were brand specific. Anyone know if that is still the case?


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Toto
Gerber Avalanche
Gerber Viper
Wolverine Brass

I sell a lot of the Avalanche with zero complaints thus far


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Keefer w said:


> At one time Gerber tank to bowl gaskets were brand specific. Anyone know if that is still the case?


Installed a Gerber ultra flush today. Bowl had the largest water surface I have seen in a 1.6 toilet. Tank to bowl gasket is definitely a Gerber gasket.
Same on the Maxwell toilet.


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## plumbdik (Aug 6, 2013)

We always recommend Toto Drake or Kohler Cimarron. If higher end we recommend the Toto Ultramax and for our low budget build-outs the Gerber Maxwell. We put in a ton of Universal Rundles about 10 years ago, not too bad for really cheap. I'd like to try the Wolverine Brass toilet but it's uncommon around here.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

What suppliers carry Gerber? I've never installed one


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Toto and some Kohler. I have a new one of each in my home both skirted easier to keep clean


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

http://www.westernpottery.com/

Give them a shot. Not sure how well they flush compared to a Toto Drake or Gerber, but I have have yet to clog mine I put in my home a few years ago. Not one problem with it yet.


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## Keefer w (Jan 26, 2012)

The bear said:


> Installed a Gerber ultra flush today. Bowl had the largest water surface I have seen in a 1.6 toilet. Tank to bowl gasket is definitely a Gerber gasket.
> Same on the Maxwell toilet.


Heads up, if you have to rebuild, a universal gasket will not work. Has to be a Gerber. Learned the hard way.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Been a huge loud fan of gerber avalanche. They were plentiful here. Now we can't get them, over sold. Think I'll start using Toto.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

I am lucky to have 3 supply houses that carry Gerber and Toto.

The Kohlers would come from Ferguson. I had a special meeting with my so-called rep there to get the price down. 

Keller has good prices and I buy Kohler from them. But the guys at the desk are always grumpy and can be downright mean. To everyone


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Gerber Viper - Best flush / price point for the average consumer. A plus is that they are not sold in the home centers. :thumbsup:

Gerber Avalanche - The 1000 gpf vs. 800 gpf performance is minimal, and hard to justify the price difference. We have never had a complaint with the Vipers clogging. 

Typically we don't offer good, better, best. We offer better or best.

Toilets - Standard height or comfort height? We offer two choices (then we describe benefits / features).


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Western Pottery all the way. I have put 100s in over the last ten years and I have only had one clog and that was due to a toy. Damn good flushing action and the are not over priced. 

I stay away from Kohler. I think Kohler's best attribute is their great marketing towards the higher end customer. I see a lot of people here like them but I can't stand over engineered, over priced toilets that have a different flapper for every stupid model. Also, the model numbers change every couple years so when you go to search for a part on a two year old toilet, that part number you have no longer matches the new part number. 

The other toilet I like, and it pains me to say this (I know people disagree with me here) is the American Standard Champion Flush. They have redesigned the parts to make them function much better. What sold me was when I installed my first one I accidentally dropped my rag down the toilet as I was test flushing it and it flushed the large rag without a problem. I was impressed. But over all, I am a Western Pottery guy. I am all about functionality, universal and interchangeable parts, and reasonable cost.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Phat Cat said:


> Gerber Viper - Best flush / price point for the average consumer. A plus is that they are not sold in the home centers. :thumbsup:
> 
> Gerber Avalanche - The 1000 gpf vs. 800 gpf performance is minimal, and hard to justify the price difference. We have never had a complaint with the Vipers clogging.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on Gerber. I am typing this while using one, actually. Haha. They have a good rim wash and good flushing action. Anything but ****ing Kohler is what I should have said. Haha. Just kidding.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Here's what I would prefer to always install: A Case low boy wall hung from the early '70s. Only $1200 to rebuild it but you can flush a small child and it won't clog! Forget about environmentally friendly with this behemoth and its 5 gpf tank. Haha. I rebuilt 3 of these in a guy's house a few weeks ago. Took me and another guy 4 hours or so to do. PITA to say the least, but good experience.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I agree with you on Gerber. I am typing this while using one, actually. Haha. They have a good rim wash and good flushing action. Anything but ****ing Kohler is what I should have said. Haha. Just kidding.


Cannot stand Kohler. Over-engineered is exactly right. They market to high-end, and sell to the cheap end at the home centers. They don't know what they are anymore. They should have stayed out of the builder's grade market.

I like the Toto Drake, availability is a problem in our area. H.O.'s like brand recognition, and Toto does not market well. H.O.'s recognize the name "Gerber." 

"Yeah, I've heard of Gerber toilets." Honestly, I suspect they haven't. Gerber is so ingrained in the baby boomers mind from baby food & Gerber Life insurance that they think they remember it.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Phat Cat said:


> Cannot stand Kohler. Over-engineered is exactly right. They market to high-end, and sell to the cheap end at the home centers. They don't know what they are anymore. They should have stayed out of the builder's grade market.
> 
> I like the Toto Drake, availability is a problem in our area. H.O.'s like brand recognition, and Toto does not market well. H.O.'s recognize the name "Gerber."
> 
> "Yeah, I've heard of Gerber toilets." Honestly, I suspect they haven't. Gerber is so ingrained in the baby boomers mind from baby food & Gerber Life insurance that they think they remember it.


Haha. All good points about Gerber. You are right, name recognition is a big deal for homeowners. Toto and Kohler have both mastered that.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> the model numbers change every couple years so when you go to search for a part on a two year old toilet, that part number you have no longer matches the new part number.


This is a frustration and you would think the suppliers can keep up. Here they can't. Sometimes they get the news from me.

On a side note, Rheem just changed all their numbers. But it this case, it made more sense and we got plenty of notice


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

MTDUNN said:


> This is a frustration and you would think the suppliers can keep up. Here they can't. Sometimes they get the news from me.
> 
> On a side note, Rheem just changed all their numbers. But it this case, it made more sense and we got plenty of notice


You are correct, it is a frustration, but I am used to it and I don't let it get to me anymore. I may complain but in all honesty it's just one of those things you gotta deal with in repair plumbing. Its not going to change so I better get over it. When asked my opinion, though, I don't mind voicing it.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> You are correct, it is a frustration, but I am used to it and I don't let it get to me anymore. I may complain but in all honesty it's just one of those things you gotta deal with in repair plumbing. Its not going to change so I better get over it. When asked my opinion, though, I don't mind voicing it.


Also, unlike delta and moen. Kohler has so many different faucet parts, my Kohler box is 10 times bigger


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

MTDUNN said:


> Also, unlike delta and moen. Kohler has so many different faucet parts, my Kohler box is 10 times bigger


Yup.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

As far as the kohler's being over engineered I agree to a degree. I don't think you can lump Kohler toilets into one category, they all flush differently. I have installed a ton of Santa rosa's and their flush leaves a lot to be desired IMO. The cimarrons and high lines I have also installed quite a few of and never had a problem with them. All the different parts makes for a lot of toilet repairs when homeowners can't find the parts at home cheapie or blowes. That's when you break out their handy service manual find the correct parts and collect, I'm not complaining about all the different parts it has brought me much business. If you want to talk about the design of a toilet the whole concept is pretty archaic if you ask me.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

love2surf927 said:


> As far as the kohler's being over engineered I agree to a degree. I don't think you can lump Kohler toilets into one category, they all flush differently. I have installed a ton of Santa rosa's and their flush leaves a lot to be desired IMO. The cimarrons and high lines I have also installed quite a few of and never had a problem with them. All the different parts makes for a lot of toilet repairs when homeowners can't find the parts at home cheapie or blowes. That's when you break out their handy service manual find the correct parts and collect, I'm not complaining about all the different parts it has brought me much business. If you want to talk about the design of a toilet the whole concept is pretty archaic if you ask me.


Fair enough. You make a good point. I just had to learn to add a PITA charge for Kohler.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I agree with you on Gerber. I am typing this while using one, actually. Haha.


Too much info!!!!

One nice thing that kohler is now doing is putting a scan code in the tank that allows you to pull up a parts diagram on your phone.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I got away from Kohler as I got tired of them changing there designs all the time. The Cimmaron and Highline are good toilets though. I use to install them exclusively. Western is now my go to toilet, they are reasonably priced, flush great, and use common parts. I put in a American Standard Cadet 3 Pro yesterday, and I was very impressed with it. Had a Pro45B fillvalve, 3" flush valve, brass trip lever, and SS tank to bowl bolts. All the guts(except maybe tank to bowl bolts) where Fuildmaster parts.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Will said:


> I got away from Kohler as I got tired of them changing there designs all the time. The Cimmaron and Highline are good toilets though. I use to install them exclusively. Western is now my go to toilet, they are reasonably priced, flush great, and use common parts. I put in a American Standard Cadet 3 Pro yesterday, and I was very impressed with it. Had a Pro45B fillvalve, 3" flush valve, brass trip lever, and SS tank to bowl bolts. All the guts(except maybe tank to bowl bolts) where Fuildmaster parts.



I recently installed a Cadet Pro. It's packaging seems to be geared toward DYI installations. You don't need many tools to install it. The tank bolts are connected to plastic handles that snap off after tightening. The china caps are oblong so no need to cut the closer bolts.

Seems to flush ok has good parts. I'd give it a B+


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I don't use the t-bolts. I'd give it a A


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Cal said:


> Been a huge loud fan of gerber avalanche. They were plentiful here. Now we can't get them, over sold. Think I'll start using Toto.


 Next day after I wrote this I installed a Toto drake. Regular height , elongated. Cost me $95 more then the same in Gerber and I was NOT impressed. 
Thankfully supplier says they are getting re stocked on Gerber. 

Before I forget , I have installed and most defiantly will be using WOLVERINE BRASS toilets ! These things are real good !! Yes they are re worked American Standard but without all the fanciful worthless garbage inside. WB has installed all their own parts and really built a great toilet. I keep a few in stock but my storage unit is filled up. 
Have to get them from my rep or sent to my house/ office from a trucking company on a pallet. 

Side note,, I realized I have 4+ bins in my truck just for Kohler parts ,,, that is ridiculous and enraging ! Over engineered .


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## thumper (Aug 19, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Here's what I would prefer to always install: A Case low boy wall hung from the early '70s. Only $1200 to rebuild it but you can flush a small child and it won't clog! Forget about environmentally friendly with this behemoth and its 5 gpf tank. Haha. I rebuilt 3 of these in a guy's house a few weeks ago. Took me and another guy 4 hours or so to do. PITA to say the least, but good experience.
> 
> View attachment 28697


So I am not the only one that has problems fixing "The Cadillac of toilets".


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

thumper said:


> So I am not the only one that has problems fixing "The Cadillac of toilets".


Haha. Of course you're not alone. Those Case one-pieces can be frustrating, to say the least. I once had a wealthy customer who had a solid marble toilet. Or so it seemed. It was a Case low-boy one-piece that was encased in marble. Even the seat and tank lid were marble. 1" thick marble. I wish I still had the photo. If ever I go back to her house I will snap a photo. She said it took 3 guys to pull and reset it once.


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Where did you get parts for this? I'm not able to find them anywhere. I've got 4-5 hrs into research.

Here's what I would prefer to always install: A Case low boy wall hung from the early '70s. Only $1200 to rebuild it but you can flush a small child and it won't clog! Forget about environmentally friendly with this behemoth and its 5 gpf tank. Haha. I rebuilt 3 of these in a guy's house a few weeks ago. Took me and another guy 4 hours or so to do. PITA to say the least, but good experience.


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Gerber Avalanche is my fav. Cost, flush, + a large footprint +++
Toto is my least favorite- replacement parts, cost, avg. flush --/


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Micah should be along soon!!


http://www.lockeplumbing.com/guides/case/case.htm


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## lockeplumbing (Sep 25, 2013)

What model is it? There should be a tank number either in the tank or on the lid. If it is not there take a picture of the insides.

Micah Robinson
Locke Plumbing
lockeplumbing.com 865-525-9318


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Supplier's quit carrying Toto around here, claimed they couldn't get parts and service from the manufacturer was lousy.
I've been installing a lot of Vortens for several years. They're cheap, and they flush well.


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## Keefer w (Jan 26, 2012)

smoldrn said:


> Supplier's quit carrying Toto around here, claimed they couldn't get parts and service from the manufacturer was lousy.
> I've been installing a lot of Vortens for several years. They're cheap, and they flush well.


Vortens are our "discount" option. Very good toilet


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

smoldrn said:


> Supplier's quit carrying Toto around here, claimed they couldn't get parts and service from the manufacturer was lousy.
> I've been installing a lot of Vortens for several years. They're cheap, and they flush well.


We've had the same issue here in Florida with toto.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

ASUPERTECH said:


> Where did you get parts for this? I'm not able to find them anywhere. I've got 4-5 hrs into research.
> 
> Here's what I would prefer to always install: A Case low boy wall hung from the early '70s. Only $1200 to rebuild it but you can flush a small child and it won't clog! Forget about environmentally friendly with this behemoth and its 5 gpf tank. Haha. I rebuilt 3 of these in a guy's house a few weeks ago. Took me and another guy 4 hours or so to do. PITA to say the least, but good experience.
> 
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/attachm...7-what-toilet-forumrunner_20131030_084240.jpg


A supply house in Houston called Stanco by those who've been going there for a long time but its new official name is TMS South. They carry all oddball stuff like case rebuild kits. They had it in stock, too. Awesome place. 

Been around since the 60s, I think. Pricey, but they have the parts for that funky faucet, tub drain, toilet or any other misc. part for all the weird fixtures people out here have put into their bathrooms and kitchens for the last 60 years.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

ASUPERTECH said:


> We've had the same issue here in Florida with toto.


Ditto for Houston. I was surprised when I went to look for parts for the Toto motion sensor flushometer and only one supply house carried them and they were gonna take a few days to get them in.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Had the same problem for a while with Grohe faucet parts. No access.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Letterrip said:


> Had the same problem for a while with Grohe faucet parts. No access.


That's one of the reason I refuse to recommend Grohe or Kohler faucets..


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## plumber78 (Nov 14, 2013)

Phat Cat said:


> Gerber Viper - Best flush / price point for the average consumer. A plus is that they are not sold in the home centers. :thumbsup:
> 
> Gerber Avalanche - The 1000 gpf vs. 800 gpf performance is minimal, and hard to justify the price difference. We have never had a complaint with the Vipers clogging.
> 
> ...


 
In total agreement with this. I am a big believer in the Gerber Viper. I have both the Viper and Avalanche in my house. The viper has not yet been plugged...The avalanche has. Now granted, the avalanche is in my powder room and gets abused. I have a son that feels he needs half a roll of toilet paper to clean his rear end.


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## jtmell (Apr 27, 2013)

*I take that back*

The last three Gerber Viper toilets I installed have a much smaller water surface area. (they changed to a 3' Flapper) . Gerbers Spec sheet says 9 5/8 x 7 1/4 " . I say no way and let them know. The new viper bowls are marked 1.25 and 1.6 .. Last one I put in customer asked "where's the Water"


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Will said:


> I got away from Kohler as I got tired of them changing there designs all the time. The Cimmaron and Highline are good toilets though. I use to install them exclusively. Western is now my go to toilet, they are reasonably priced, flush great, and use common parts. I put in a American Standard Cadet 3 Pro yesterday, and I was very impressed with it. Had a Pro45B fillvalve, 3" flush valve, brass trip lever, and SS tank to bowl bolts. All the guts(except maybe tank to bowl bolts) where Fuildmaster parts.


We install the cadet 3 pro and mansfield. The cadet has a way better flush than the Mansfield.


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## Plumberdood1 (Apr 23, 2014)

We like Mansfield and Kohler.


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

We stock Gerber vipers and avalanches. Most of my guys have them in there own houses and we've never had any major problems. We used to keep Toto in stock but it seems like every time we'd get a delivery of a dozen or so 2 of them were broken or chipped and u wouldn't know it until u were ready to install.


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## plumb1801 (Apr 4, 2014)

I like the Kohler highline series and I also I like ProFlo from Ferguson- not the all in one in the box. The ProFlo toilet was the old Briggs toilet if anyone has ever heard of them. They flush good and I don't get call backs like some out there. If I'm doing a commercial job and nothing is stated in the plumbing schedule then I choose ProFlo toilets because they fit the budget better and still perform as expected. 

The Kohler toilets around here have always been the toilet of choice for their flushing technology and durability of the porcelain. Believe it or not the big box stores sells the Kohler Highline series elongated chair height with a soft close seat for less than 200.00, that's hard to beat. I don't normally buy any thing from them but these toilets have been great. I usually sell 5- 10 a mouth with no problems.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Hey rhonda for a guy from the uk home of the english language,

how come you cannot read english ?

Professional plumbers only, not collage professors !


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## bunk97 (Feb 27, 2018)

Yes we also use Kohler Cimarron. Seems to work out nice!


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

HEY BUNK 97

An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Post an intro you moron. And yes I went there, because the link can be found in the post right before your post, which should have been pretty obvious that you needed to do an intro just like the other people that responded without first posting an intro.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

So what happened to the post between Jerry's and mine? The true post #56 is now missing, making me look crazy.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

chonkie said:


> So what happened to the post between Jerry's and mine? The true post #56 is now missing, making me look crazy.


Every couple days there's a new spammer member and it has been removed. I'm on the morning watch.:ban:


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