# IBC requires engineer to design commercial plumbing systems?



## abr (Jun 21, 2009)

Today my inspector informed me that the IBC and the new UPC code has a requirement that plumbing drawings on commercial buildings be done by licensed engineers. Has anyone heard of this? I don't have an IBC code book to confirm. I am in Washington state and we are still using 2009 UPC. I'm not sure when they will adopt the 2012 version so I don't have a copy of it either. I have been doing my own design for over twenty years. I only hire engineers for jobs that the specs call for an engineers stamp. I hope the inspector is misinformed.

Thanks,

Adam


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't have a copy of the UPC but do have the 2012 IBC.

That said in Illinois any project above $10,000 that requires a drawing, the drawing must be submitted by a licensed design professional, So you can draw it but the submittal must come from a mechanical engineer. Note the bold section about the AHJ below.


_CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS. Written, graphic and
pictorial documents prepared or assembled for describing the
design, location and physical characteristics of the elements of
a project necessary for obtaining a building permit._

Here is the code section from the "2012 IBC"

SECTION 107
SUBMITTAL DOCUMENTS
[A] 107.1 General. Submittal documents consisting of construction
documents, statement of special inspections, geotechnical
report and other data shall be submitted in two or
more sets with each permit application. *The construction documents
shall be prepared by a registered design professional*
*where required by the statutes of the jurisdiction in which the
project is to be constructed*. Where special conditions exist,
the building official is authorized to require additional construction
documents to be prepared by a registered design
professional.
Exception: The building official is authorized to waive the
submission of construction documents and other data not
required to be prepared by a registered design professional
if it is found that the nature of the work applied for is such
that review of construction documents is not necessary to
obtain compliance with this code.

[A] 107.3.4 Design professional in responsible charge.
When it is required that documents be prepared by a registered
design professional, the building official shall be
authorized to require the owner to engage and designate on
the building permit application a registered design professional
who shall act as the registered design professional
in responsible charge. If the circumstances require, the
owner shall designate a substitute registered design professional
in responsible charge who shall perform the
duties required of the original registered design professional
in responsible charge. The building official shall be
notified in writing by the owner if the registered design
professional in responsible charge is changed or is unable
to continue to perform the duties.
The registered design professional in responsible
charge shall be responsible for reviewing and coordinating
submittal documents prepared by others, including phased
and deferred submittal items, for compatibility with the
design of the building.


This goes much farther back. The section below is from the "2003 IBC" which still requires a design professional.

SECTION 106
CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS
106.1 Submittal documents. Construction documents, special
inspection and structural observation programs, and other data
shall be submitted in one or more sets with each application for
a permit. *The construction documents shall be prepared by a
registered design professional where required by the statutes of
the jurisdiction in which the project is to be constructed. *Where
special conditions exist, the building official is authorized to require
additional construction documents to be prepared by a
registered design professional.
Exception: The building official is authorized to waive the
submission of construction documents and other data not required
to be prepared by a registered design professional if it
is found that the nature of the work applied for is such that
review of construction documents is not necessary to obtain
compliance with this code.


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## abr (Jun 21, 2009)

*Thanks*

That must be what the inspector was talking about. What is the definition of a 
registered design professional?
In our state you can pass an exam and become licensed to design and install 13D fire sprinkler systems. You don't have to show any proof of experience in the trade and there is no requirement of any schooling.
As a licensed journeyman plumber you have to have an equivalent of at least five years of experience with at least 50% in commercial work and pass a substantial exam.
Ironically any joe blow can go down to the state with a $12,000 bond (not hard to get), proof of liability insurance and pay a fee and walk out as a licensed plumbing contractor. You still have to be a licensed plumber to do any installation.
Also you are not required to have any license to install gas piping. I believe in licensing of trade professionals. It just doesn't make any sense how they pick and choose to regulate it.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Not sure about your State, but in Illinois it would be an architect, engineer degree. Ill does not recognize a "Licensed Plumber" as a design professional. Illinois has it's own Department to cover this http://www.idfpr.com/DPRdefault.asp.
 
Here is the definition from the 2012 IBC.

_"[A] REGISTERED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL. An individual
who is registered or licensed to practice their respective
design profession as defined by the statutory
requirements of the professional registration laws of the state
or jurisdiction in which the project is to be constructed.

[A] REGISTERED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL IN
RESPONSIBLE CHARGE. A registered design professional
engaged by the owner to review and coordinate certain
aspects of the project, as determined by the building official,
for compatibility with the design of the building or structure,
including submittal documents prepared by others, deferred
submittal documents and phased submittal documents."_

In Illinois to become a Licensed Plumber you must have an apprenticeship of about 6,000 hours pass a State exam, then bound out to get a Plumbing Contractors License. Still if a Municipality wants to they can force a design submittal from a Mech. or other engineer.

I believe in Illinois you still need to be registered design Pro to install a 13D system when it is a standalone, but not a loop system or heads up to 5 and for sure a NFPA13.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

In Ohio a registered Architect with a Ohio stamp is a design professional. Engineers can also be used if Ohio approved.

Were under the 2009 IPC


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Heres how it is in Jersey. 

You probably have this in your uniform construction code.


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