# water main



## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

152 unit condo association shut down main water main that feeds every unit.
We scheduled a 9-5 water shut down yesterday. Leak detector was 6 feet off. Needless to say 7 hours later we found leak on 4inch pvc 90*.
We only had one hour to allow pvc to dry and get water back on. Water distric came out and it burst at 5pm. We used 4 90s for a swing joint and braced with lumber wire and anything we could use to hold it down.
Home owners have been without water for 24 hours now. Worked till midnight to try and repair with whatever fittings we had. 90 degree angle and coupling we used only went in halfway, due to 90 angle not being true.
Been sitting overnight to dry. Going to cut it out and try swing joint again. I was confident the first time it would of held just didn't have ample time to dry.
We using primer and red hot glue and pipe is sanded. Plan today is to reswing joint and let dry few hours before we pour slurrie. Wish us luck. 
Suggestions?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Qball415 said:


> We only had one hour to allow pvc to dry and get water back on.
> 
> 
> Suggestions?


 





You should not let the water dept. tell you when the water is being turned back on. *You tell them*.



Don't know how cold it is where you are located, but, I would use purple primer and blue glue. Let it sit for the (2) hours which is what it states on the can of blue glue. 
Longer if its real chilly outside.
I just did a 1" PVC repair on Saturday, let it set up for approx. 1/2 an hour then turned water back on. But then again it's in the 60's and 70's here during the day.

May want to put a thrust block in there if you can.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

We are in the SF bay area and weather is similar to where you areTommy. Water district did not dictate when to turn water on.
Property manager was rushing us. District was scheduled to be here at site. By that time it had only 1 hr cure time.
Brothers let me tell you we were in a pinch of a lifetime calling every local plumber in town I know for help.
We needed material at 9pm everything is closed! Luckily one shop owner got out of bed to help us. He went through his bone yard at his shop to bring to bring to us. Never met him in person, but after what he did for me I have found a friend for life I owe him big time. That's brotherhood at its finest and I will always pay it forward as well.
If anyone is in my area P.M me contact info to exchange. We can help each other out. Were all in it for the same reason after all.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Sounds like a real pressure situation for sure. Sounds like you're cleaning the pipe well and all, you may just need to let that joint set up more. 

I've had PVC water line repairs blow apart before as well. That does suck. 

Did you use the regular clear PVC cement? I'd go with the blue glue for that repair.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Red hot. Blue cement.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I just did this repair this past Saturday and I was a little nervous only waiting 1/2 hour to turn water back on, but the repair held.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Get some schd 80 flanges and make the transition from the exsisting pipe to your repair section. The flanges let you get all the fittings fully seated on the pipe and prevent you from having to build a swing joint that the force of the water can possibly blow out.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

I had a situation like that on a 2" pvc water main. I ended up having to let the glue set for 24 hours on the swing joint before it was able to hold the pressure. I had the joint blow on me 3 times before I did that.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

We would have probably used MJ fittings and riser clamps. In and out and not have to worry about it blowing.

A little more expensive, but ...........


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Next time get the guy turning on the water main to only crack it open and have water running inside the building. The joint will have less stress on it. Once the line is full you can open main all the way. Thrust blocks are mandatory here at change direction

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## drs (Jun 17, 2011)

PVC for waterlines?

Stress is life's way of letting us know we are still alive.


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## incarnatopnh (Feb 1, 2011)

I've never glued a 4" water main. Always used mj fittings on 4". And always have thrust blocking.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> Get some schd 80 flanges and make the transition from the exsisting pipe to your repair section. The flanges let you get all the fittings fully seated on the pipe and prevent you from having to build a swing joint that the force of the water can possibly blow out.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


 Why would it blow apart if it was properly glued and given the correct amount of time to set?

Also, some places require companion flanges to be readily accessible, which would preclude their use in a direct burial application.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Why would it blow apart if it was properly glued and given the correct amount of time to set?
> 
> Also, some places require companion flanges to be readily accessible, which would preclude their use in a direct burial application.


That's defintly true, the flanges would allow enough room and flexibilty to ensure that the joints are pushed all the way together. But even with flanges the glue must have an ample amount of time to cure.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> That's defintly true, the flanges would allow enough room and flexibilty to ensure that the joints are pushed all the way together. But even with flanges the glue must have an ample amount of time to cure.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


 There is no flexibility with companion flanges.

Either you're squared up and lined up or you're not. Forcing the issue just leads to immediate leak or leaks down the road.

A swing joint may be as ugly as sin, but at least it allows you the opportunity to square up the connections and not stress the freshly glued joints.

And again, there are municipalities in this country that will not allow you to bury a companion flange.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> There is no flexibility with companion flanges.
> 
> Either you're squared up and lined up or you're not. Forcing the issue just leads to immediate leak or leaks down the road.
> 
> ...


Swing joints are great, never Said I hated them. In the end MJ fittings and restraints would be the best option but alot more expensive. the pipe should have been installed USing MJ fittings and restrains in the first place when the building was first built. But use whatever works for you and your customers.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> Swing joints are great, never Said I hated them.


 And therein lies the rub.

You "hate" so many things I've long lost interest in trying to track the things you actually profess to 'like'.

I warned you months ago you faced the prospect of being marginalized.

Consider yourself marginalized.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

id use this , its heavy duty









Other Solvent Cements, Primers and Cleaners

Heavy Duty Clear cement for use on all schedules and classes PVC pipe and fitting up to 12” diameter with interference fit, up to 18” for non-pressure.
Lo-V.O.C. Solvent Cement meets California South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) 1168/316A or BAAQMD Method 40 and various environmental requirements.
Thick formula fills gaps in large diameter pipe and loose fitting joints.
Recommended for potable water, pressure pipe, conduit and DWV.
Recommended application temperature 40°F to 110°F / 4°C to 43°C.
Meets ASTM D-2564.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> id use this , its heavy duty
> 
> Other Solvent Cements, Primers and Cleaners
> 
> ...


Thats some good stuff, we use that 99% of the time on PVC.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Yup if the heavy duty can't hold it its not meant to be held:no:.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

We charged water this morning after having repair we did last night dry all night.
I wasn't comfortable with 1 joint from last night. I was hesitatant to turn the meters on. Absolute luck was on my side, it held pressure and we poured gravel and cement kickers. Inspector passed and signed permit. 
What a relief to say the least.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Qball415 said:


> We charged water this morning after having repair we did last night dry all night.
> I wasn't comfortable with 1 joint from last night. I was hesitatant to turn the meters on. Absolute luck was on my side, it held pressure and we poured gravel and cement kickers. Inspector passed and signed permit.
> What a relief to say the least.


Those kinda jobs suck don't they :laughing:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm glad it all had a good outcome.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Bros it had me sweating. Didn't get a wink of sleep when I finnaly got home. Couldn't even eat, I had coffee and protein shakes for meals the past 2 days.
At the end of the day the most important thing in my world after my family was restoring water to 152 families in need of running water.
We take for granted how good we have it in our dwelling to have "running water".


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Qball415 said:


> Bros it had me sweating. Didn't get a wink of sleep when I finnaly got home. Couldn't even eat, I had coffee and protein shakes for meals the past 2 days.
> At the end of the day the most important thing in my world after my family was restoring water to 152 families in need of running water.
> We take for granted how good we have it in our dwelling to have "running water".


I've had plenty of jobs like that. You're laying in bed thinking what you could do differently to get it to work the way you want or praying that the joints gonna hold.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

As it is Sam. You must have read my book.
I almost called you last night. Do you stock 4" pvc?
Neither does anyone else.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Qball415 said:


> As it is Sam. You must have read my book.
> I almost called you last night. Do you stock 4" pvc?
> Neither does anyone else.


Its hard as hell to get pvc larger than 1.5" here in the Bay Area huh:laughing: When 
I had a job similar to yours in Dublin I couldn't find 2" fittings any where I was considering telling the H.O that I would rather just change the whole line to copper.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

tungsten plumb said:


> Its hard as hell to get pvc larger than 1.5" here in the Bay Area huh:laughing: When
> I had a job similar to yours in Dublin I couldn't find 2" fittings any where I was considering telling the H.O that I would rather just change the whole line to copper.


Home depot and lowes sells up to 2inch, good to know if Ur in a pinch.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

My heart goes out to you! I think id be pretty stressed tring to sleep on that one.
Ive glued 4 inch no problem befor. Recently while installing (digging) a gasline for a pool heater we damaged a 3/4 I guess I got a little too confident and it blew up on me withen a few minutes. You probebly got water in the line, if its good and dry those problems dont usualy happen. \
Hope It all holds


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Glad it worked out for you.. I bet you feel relieved at this point..


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Qball415 said:


> Bros it had me sweating. Didn't get a wink of sleep when I finnaly got home. Couldn't even eat, I had coffee and protein shakes for meals the past 2 days.
> At the end of the day the most important thing in my world after my family was restoring water to 152 families in need of running water.
> We take for granted how good we have it in our dwelling to have "running water".


Been there man. Glad its over for you. This is why plumbing is not for everyone.
Here's a few shots from 2 saturdays ago. We had a 4" pvc line feeding irrigation in a school so its was a scheduled repair. We were down 8 feet where the 90 in the picture blew apart because some dodo switched the 10 hp pump on(lake fed) without proper regulation. It was under a 2 year old walking bridge with 8" concrete slab, but truthfully I know your situation was waaaay more stressful.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

89plumbum said:


> Been there man. Glad its over for you. This is why plumbing is not for everyone.
> Here's a few shots from 2 saturdays ago. We had a 4" pvc line feeding irrigation in a school so its was a scheduled repair. We were down 8 feet where the 90 in the picture blew apart because some dodo switched the 10 hp pump on(lake fed) without proper regulation. It was under a 2 year old walking bridge with 8" concrete slab, but truthfully I know your situation was waaaay more stressful.


The original installers should have used MJ fittings and restraints on that line. Or atleast used schd. 80 fittings.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Mississippiplum said:


> The original installers should have used MJ fittings and restraints on that line. Or atleast used schd. 80 fittings.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


 Would sch 80 be less likely to blow apart? I was wondering about the glue. I used the gray glue on bigger pipe. Restraints probebly would have made a differance


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I have a lot of experience with large pvc water lines as a HOA I used to take care of would break 1-2 a year.

I have never had any problems with the blue glue, wet r dry. Turn back on in 45 minutes, water running in from units, no problem.

Also, I started doing 2 schedule 80 mip, then 2- 2" propress fip, and type L copper in between. Turned it on in 30 minutes. All the way up to 3"


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## dankman (Nov 19, 2009)

I can't understand why anyone would want to use any plastic but HDPE with fused joints for an underground water service, in a harsh climate even sch 80 is too brittle to last a long time.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

We used christies hot glue in AZ 30 min for 2 and less 1 hr for over 2". We were getting grief from the cops at one apartment complex with a broken 3" line so we only waited 45min no prob. The PO PO keep getting 911 calls about no H2O and they had to come out for each because it was a health emergency.

If it's cold you might try those halogen work lights in the trench, not touching the pipe or shining on it but in the hole and plywood over the hole to hold in the heat works great.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Would sch 80 be less likely to blow apart? I was wondering about the glue. I used the gray glue on bigger pipe. Restraints probebly would have made a differance


Schd 80 is alot stronger, and would resist cracking from the force of the water alot better. We/I Normaly use the gray heavy duty glue made by weld on, on the larger size pipe also.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

grey glue for anything 6 inches or above here


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Dont think weather would be a factor 8 foot deep? Didnt hear the fitting broke just blew apart thats why I asked if sch 80 would have a better chance or same result. Blue glue is legal on 4 inch but above 2 inch here its common to use grey


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Dont think weather would be a factor 8 foot deep? Didnt hear the fitting broke just blew apart thats why I asked if sch 80 would have a better chance or same result. Blue glue is legal on 4 inch but above 2 inch here its common to use grey


Blowing apart at the socket would be caused by not glueing it properly. We use gray glue on anything over 2 inch also

I wouldn't worry to much bout the weather as long as the temp is 70 degrees plus. also make the sure the pipe is dry and clean. 

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

dankman said:


> I can't understand why anyone would want to use any plastic
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Alot of times plastic is the only choice 

Ex: irrigation system, 4 inch main coming off pumping station feeding the system. Ductile is to expensive and time consuming to install. Copper is too expensive and the water could eat it up, and it's time consuming to install, same with galvy- dirt will eat it up. Then you got PVC- water or soil won't effect it, easy to install, and cost effective, plus it's easy to use tapping Sadles on.


PVC is a great durable material, that when installed properly will last a very long time. I have no problems with it, it's a great material. 


sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


 







How long are you going to be in there?......:laughing:


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