# Commercial plans question



## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Hey guys,

Trying to put together a material list for a job, and the engineer wants everything exactly as the plans show. My question is regarding this 3-way valve spec. It asks for three thermometers with a note requestions "minimum pipe size where the thermometer is located shall be 2" x 18" long". WTF does that mean?!


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

Is the piping 2" diameter? If so the only thing I would think would he wants 9 inches of pipe on each side of the thermometer. 

Ask the guy


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Im gona say he wants a minimum of 18 inches from the mixing valve before you have a thermometer to give an accurate temp of the water ... and that it should be full size pipe(2 inch) if thats the speced pipe size..


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

He wants the well in the water flow any smaller and it would only have the end of the well in the flow.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

wyrickmech said:


> He wants the well in the water flow any smaller and it would only have the end of the well in the flow.


I have a headache now.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

He wants you to hate your job


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I've never seen a mixing valve where the out port is on the run. All the one's I've seen and used have the out port on the branch, with HW going in on one side and CW on the other.
I agree with Shrns. However, an RFI might requesting a dimensional drawing might make him realize want a crapy sketch that is. Prolly not though.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Plumber said:


> I have a headache now.


 I know it sucks but that was the reason I was given by a engineer once.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Im gonna say he wants a minimum of 18 inches from the mixing valve before you have a thermometer to give an accurate temp of the water ... and that it should be full size pipe(2 inch) if thats the speced pipe size..


That's unfortunately what I was thinking. My problems are...

Some 3 way valves are only 1.25", when the details are requesting 2"

and I have six of these in an already small mechanical room. 

....pump specs are as follows....I have 6 circulators. All between 1.5 and 2.5"...what a dummy. 



and dont get me started on near boiler specs. Lets just say he is asking for two low water cut offs and a flow meter on a Lochinvar Knight 399.....


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

markb said:


> That's unfortunately what I was thinking. My problems are...
> 
> Some 3 way valves are only 1.25", when the details are requesting 2"
> 
> ...


Oh man... betcha those pumps are way oversized..


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

markb said:


> That's unfortunately what I was thinking. My problems are...
> 
> Some 3 way valves are only 1.25", when the details are requesting 2"
> 
> ...


 Architects and engineers are wanabees..they cant do so they sit down and play with pencils and cad software designing what cant be built in reality and pat themselves on their backs for doing it...it should be mandatory for any design job, that the person works in the field for at least 5 years before they are aloud to play with crayons designing stuff...alot of problems and issues would go away if they had to work on what they will designing...


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Architects and engineers are wanabees..they cant do so they sit down and play with pencils and cad software designing what cant be built in reality and pat themselves on their backs for doing it...it should be mandatory for any design job, that the person works in the field for at least 5 years before they are aloud to play with crayons designing stuff...alot of problems and issues would go away if they had to work on what they will designing...


 not going to say there isn't bad ones out there but I have seen a lot of dam good engineers. As far as playing with crayons you need to step back and think,they can correctly design and calculate things that we have no clue on. I have been involved in several design build projects that will tax your thinking possess and it isn't easy. Normally very simple changes can change a lot. There are engineers that need schooling don't take it wrong but they can stamp things we can't.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Caleffi makes a 2" mixing valve


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumbus said:


> Caleffi makes a 2" mixing valve


Needs to find Dave Tate ' s article on mixing valve... explaining why 90 percent of installed mixing valves are oversized and overscalding..


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Needs to find Dave Tate ' s article on mixing valve... explaining why 90 percent of installed mixing valves are oversized and overscalding..


I think overscalding may have more to do with how the system is piped then with the valve used. The valve responds to demand regardless of it's size.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumbus said:


> I think overscalding may have more to do with how the system is piped then with the valve used. The valve responds to demand regardless of it's size.


Couples with oversized pumps doesn't help ethier.. still looking for that article... didn't see the forest cor trees til I read it and from that , troubleshoot one condo with the problems, disconnected one pump, closed one boiler, downsized the mixing valve.. problems went away..


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

wyrickmech said:


> not going to say there isn't bad ones out there but I have seen a lot of dam good engineers. As far as playing with crayons you need to step back and think,they can correctly design and calculate things that we have no clue on. I have been involved in several design build projects that will tax your thinking possess and it isn't easy. Normally very simple changes can change a lot. There are engineers that need schooling don't take it wrong but they can stamp things we can't.


just because one has the authority to stamp plans doesnt mean they have the ability to design them...there are some good engineers, but I will stick to they must work in the field with their hands for some years before they are aloud to design in the field they worked, this would alleviate many problems and issues if they had to fix, install what they designed..


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> just because one has the authority to stamp plans doesnt mean they have the ability to design them...there are some good engineers, but I will stick to they must work in the field with their hands for some years before they are aloud to design in the field they worked, this would alleviate many problems and issues if they had to fix, install what they designed..


Field work might also curb some of their arrogance.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

View attachment 87673
Here are some photos of the job 90% completed. 6 days in the mechanical room with a helper.

2.5" Primary loop, mostly 2", some 1.5".

Primary circulator is 9' long!!!!!!!

Found free wifi at the site, so my laptop was streaming music every day into our Milwaukee radio!!!

Fing crazy engineer


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

markb said:


> Here are some photos of the job 90% completed. 6 days in the mechanical room with a helper.
> 
> 2.5" Primary loop, mostly 2", some 1.5".
> 
> ...


Site won't let me upload pictures


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