# wiring a boiler and zone valves



## captkirk

I have been given the task of wiring a hot water boiler with 5 zone valves. the boiler has a low voltage wire comming out of the side of it. The electrician has already wired the 120v but I think he still needs to include the low water cut off after the service switch on the side of the unit. There is also another valve for hot water storage tank that is heated by the same boiler. From what I can understand here I need a transformer for the thermostates and valves and I can only put up to three valves on a transformer. Here is a picture of what i am talking about. any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## uaplumber

Before asking technical questions how about telling us some more about yourself?


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## Plumberman

Agreed


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## captkirk

Oh sorry my name is tony and im from New Jersey. Im 26 and have been a plumber for about 4 1/2 years now. I work for a small shop (3 vans) as a plumers apprentice and recently my boss ask me if I knew anything about wiring zone valves. Naturally I said yes Ive done a few in the past but not like this one. Personally I think an argo controller is an easier way to go but this isnt my decision.


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## rombo

ya I would be wiring up a control panel if I were you


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## MAC

Just an observation, why aren't there any flow checks on the feeds?


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## GrumpyPlumber

captkirk said:


> Oh sorry my name is tony and im from New Jersey. Im 26 and have been a plumber for about 4 1/2 years now. I work for a small shop (3 vans) as a plumers apprentice and recently my boss ask me if I knew anything about wiring zone valves. Naturally I said yes Ive done a few in the past but not like this one. Personally I think an argo controller is an easier way to go but this isnt my decision.


*Rule #1 as an apprentice...NEVER overstate your experience.*

*You basically just screwed yourself, your boss & his customer.*

*I'm in the northeast, I fail to understand how you have no idea how to wire a boiler after 4-1/2 years of doing it.*


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## Redwood

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Rule #1 as an apprentice...NEVER overstate your experience.*
> 
> *You basically just screwed yourself, your boss & his customer.*
> 
> *I'm in the northeast, I fail to understand how you have no idea how to wire a boiler after 4-1/2 years of doing it.*


*"A good man always knows his limitations..."*
*~Harry Callahan... Magnum Force 1973~*


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## Marlin

I know very little about boiler wiring. When we do a storage tank we always use a control box to give it priority though.


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## service guy

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Rule #1 as an apprentice...NEVER overstate your experience.*
> 
> *You basically just screwed yourself, your boss & his customer.*
> 
> *I'm in the northeast, I fail to understand how you have no idea how to wire a boiler after 4-1/2 years of doing it.*


I plumbed in the northeast for 6 years and I never did figure it all out with regards to boiler wiring. There was one guy in the shop that knew it really well and he did all of that type of work, or the electricians did it. I never learned it and then I moved down south and I never see boilers any more.


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## 22rifle

service guy said:


> I plumbed in the northeast for 6 years and I never did figure it all out with regards to boiler wiring. There was one guy in the shop that knew it really well and he did all of that type of work, or the electricians did it. I never learned it and then I moved down south and I never see boilers any more.


Ack! Don't let the electricians touch my boiler wiring!


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## ILPlumber

Just IMHO.

Alot of guys including me piss and moan about unlicensed folks attempting plumbing. Now, here we have a plumber/fitter attempting to do electrical work. I think it's a 2 way street boys and girl.

Would you want an electrician piping that boiler and holding tank?:no:

Flame the hell out of me if you will:laughing: I'm a plumber/fitter not an electrician:thumbsup:

Is the boiler water co-mingling with the hot potable water?

Is a dual-check with atmospheric vent approved for that boiler in your state?

Where are the unions on anything?


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## 22rifle

ILPlumber said:


> Just IMHO.
> 
> Alot of guys including me piss and moan about unlicensed folks attempting plumbing. Now, here we have a plumber/fitter attempting to do electrical work. I think it's a 2 way street boys and girl.
> 
> Would you want an electrician piping that boiler and holding tank?:no:
> 
> Flame the hell out of me if you will:laughing: I'm a plumber/fitter not an electrician:thumbsup:


I thought most state codes permitted licensed plumbers (and/or HVAC contractors) to do low voltage wiring on HVAC equipment. 

Forget unions. If it's legal I am doing it. I have yet to meet a single electrician that I wanted touching my control wiring. Nor have I met one that wanted to do it.


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## ILPlumber

22rifle said:


> I thought most state codes permitted licensed plumbers (and/or HVAC contractors) to do low voltage wiring on HVAC equipment.
> 
> Forget unions. If it's legal I am doing it. I have yet to meet a single electrician that I wanted touching my control wiring. Nor have I met one that wanted to do it.


Unions, as in double nut couplings. Not labor unions. Unions have their place. Like next to the holding tank and boiler or anywhere else you would have to cut the pipe in half for removal


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## 22rifle

ILPlumber said:


> Is the boiler water co-mingling with the hot potable water?


How could it? Are you seeing something I am missing? I mean, that water heater is an indirect fired water heater. The boiler water circulates through a coil inside the tank.



ILPlumber said:


> Is a dual-check with atmospheric vent approved for that boiler in your state?


It's legal in most states. Isn't it legal in IL?



ILPlumber said:


> Where are the unions on anything?


Do you mean unions as in Local XYZ or unions as in a fitting?


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## 22rifle

ILPlumber said:


> Unions, as in double nut couplings. Not labor unions. Unions have their place. Like next to the holding tank and boiler or anywhere else you would have to cut the pipe in half for removal


Oops.

Red face here. I did ask in my next post.


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## ILPlumber

22rifle said:


> How could it? Are you seeing something I am missing? I mean, that water heater is an indirect fired water heater. The boiler water circulates through a coil inside the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> It's legal in most states. Isn't it legal in IL?
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean unions as in Local XYZ or unions as in a fitting?


I am prolly wrong on the tank. I've put in larger tanks made by the same folks that do not have a coil in them.

Boilers under 100,000 btu are permitted to have a dc with atmospheric vent. Prolly wrong there too that boiler is prolly under 100.

Union as in fitting.

I typed faster than I thought. Sorry 


slinks off in the corner to lick my wounds.............


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## 22rifle

ILPlumber said:


> I am prolly wrong on the tank. I've put in larger tanks made by the same folks that do not have a coil in them.
> 
> Boilers under 100,000 btu are permitted to have a dc with atmospheric vent. Prolly wrong there too that boiler is prolly under 100.
> 
> Union as in fitting.
> 
> I typed faster than I thought. Sorry
> 
> 
> slinks off in the corner to lick my wounds.............


Ya trying to put me on a guilt trip? -grin

Seriously, what does your code require for backflow prevention on boilers over 100K btu?


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## ILPlumber

Rpz


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## 22rifle

ILPlumber said:


> Rpz


You serious? Wow. 

Why so? What is a 125K btu boiler going to do that a 70K btu boiler won't do in regards to backflow prevention?

Is it that way even on residential? Or just on commercial?


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## GrumpyPlumber

ILPlumber said:


> Just IMHO.
> 
> *Alot of guys including me piss and moan about unlicensed folks attempting plumbing. Now, here we have a plumber/fitter attempting to do electrical work. I think it's a 2 way street boys and girl.*
> 
> Would you want an electrician piping that boiler and holding tank?:no:
> 
> Flame the hell out of me if you will:laughing: I'm a plumber/fitter not an electrician:thumbsup:
> 
> Is the boiler water co-mingling with the hot potable water?
> 
> Is a dual-check with atmospheric vent approved for that boiler in your state?
> 
> Where are the unions on anything?


*EVERY boiler I install is done with permits.*

*The 120 has to be a licensed electrician, the low voltage is us...whether we like it or not.*

*I actually had an argument with an electrician on CT over this once...he accused me of pawning my work on the electrician when I said I don't touch the electrical...that may have been a differing code issue.*

*Knowing boiler circuitry in the north is a MUST for any service plumber (or HVAC in some states)...how else do you decipher whether it's the low water cut-off vs the rollout?*


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## ILPlumber

That may be customary country wide for all I know. It's just not how we do it. 

We had minimal training in apprenticeship in the controls area. We usually work hand in hand with the sparky on controls with wiring


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## Marlin

Things are different everywhere you go.

We usually do everything on boilers which are inspected and pass just fine. Maybe we're not supposed to be doing it, I have no idea. I just can't imagine having to get both a plumber and electrician on site to change out a circulator pump or something like that. 
Never heard of putting an RPZ on a boiler either, it certainly would get the job done though. The largest I've worked on is two 650000 btu boilers twined together and we didn't have to use an RPZ. It passed inspection fine. We just don't have to use em here.
As for unions it's not a bad idea to use them, we don't though. If I ever had to pull one out for a warranty or something I'd just cut it with a sawzall and add unions then. When it's time for a new boiler 35 years down the road it's all going to be cut out anyway so it's not helping then either.


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## GrumpyPlumber

ILPlumber said:


> That may be customary country wide for all I know. It's just not how we do it.
> 
> We had minimal training in apprenticeship in the controls area. We usually work hand in hand with the sparky on controls with wiring


*What if a low water cutoff shorts on a 24 v system?*

*You supposed to bring a plumber & electrician at 9pm to an emergency heat call?*


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## user4

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *What if a low water cutoff shorts on a 24 v system?*
> 
> *You supposed to bring a plumber & electrician at 9pm to an emergency heat call?*


Here in IL the customer would call a heating contractor.


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## service guy

Grumpy sometimes thinks that the whole world should run like massachusetts.


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## nhmaster3015

captkirk said:


> Oh sorry my name is tony and im from New Jersey. Im 26 and have been a plumber for about 4 1/2 years now. I work for a small shop (3 vans) as a plumers apprentice and recently my boss ask me if I knew anything about wiring zone valves. Naturally I said yes Ive done a few in the past but not like this one. Personally I think an argo controller is an easier way to go but this isnt my decision.


€Tony, get hold of a Taco 5 zone controller and follow the directions. Could'nt be simpler. Transformer is built in.


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## GrumpyPlumber

nhmaster3015 said:


> €Tony, get hold of a Taco 5 zone controller and follow the directions. Could'nt be simpler. Transformer is built in.


*Yep, and creating a priority zone is simple.*


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## ASUPERTECH

*Don't let anything go*



Killertoiletspider said:


> Here in IL the customer would call a heating contractor.


Gents here in Fl. over the years, many parts of our license have been stolen!!!!:furious:
Some plumbers here "don't do gas" "don't do water treatment", "don't do pumps" "don't do fire sprinklers. All these used to be under our licenses, and were handed/ given to others. Now at great expense and slowly we are gaining responsibility back.
The more things we let go the less work there will be for tomarrow. 
Many HO here don't even think to call a plumber for a water softner, drain cleaning, bath remodels, etc. and work is slow right now, plumbers used to do all the under ground, there was no such thing as mechanical contractors. 
If the firm is large enough, why not have an elec., and mechanical guy on staff, why turn any work away at all.
I would never work outside my scope, but even if the first time is an experience, the next time I'll be better faster, and guarenteed to make money on the deal.:thumbup:
If your a plumbing contractor, and don't want to take on a project with some elec. work, sub in a elec. for the whole project. Make $ on there work. 
An old plumber I worked with for a while now, said he would rather be known as the guy who knows every one to get a project done, than the guy who knows everything.


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## Wethead

Redwood said:


> *"A good man always knows his limitations..."*
> *~Harry Callahan... Magnum Force 1973~*





service guy said:


> I plumbed in the northeast for 6 years and I never did figure it all out with regards to boiler wiring. There was one guy in the shop that knew it really well and he did all of that type of work, or the electricians did it. I never learned it and then I moved down south and I never see boilers any more.


Agreed, I would let the electrians do it for sure ,


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## Kyle

nhm is right get proper controller board from wholesale. easiest.. cleanest way to do it. an makes you look good haha. other then that i am not sure what excactly is so confusing i am sure they are just n/o 24v valves.... circuit on an off. just like in apartment.. t stat in series with controller and transformer. transformer can support as many valves as the VA rating is enough. amperes ( load of each valve when in use ) x voltage of line in use ( 24 in your case) so you might be able to use one ( unless local elec code says other wise ) thats the catch but if you get a controller board alot like plug an play not much to think bout just connect wires. an best option. and you can do primary with that. , hey grumpyplumber.. you can tell if its a low water cut off or a roll out if you jumper then and just by pass them ( handyman tip) lololol =) like the other guys said. panel. they know best.


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## Mike Jessome

I myself don't know exactly how to wire all the controls yet to a boiler I'm only a first year, but the company I work for does all kinds of different wiring, and is an important part of being a plumber we run the thermostat wire, we pipe the boiler, we run the heating lines so why can't we infact wire it so that it all runs. I'm from Nova Scotia Canada and I know most of you are all from the states but we wire combo burners, wood hot water, warm air, electric,Oil, wiring in my opinion is part of being a plumber it makes you an all around better tradesmen.


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## TDB

Wiring this boiler is very easy. here in Alaska, plumbers allowed to do high voltage on boilers and forced air furnaces.



There is a backflow preventer on this boiler. Its a watts 1/2" 9d. It is located just behind the watts 1156 fast fill fill valve. Its required on every boiler in Anchorage. I'd assume every jurasdiction would require since this is a cast iron boiler...

This boiler is certainly above 100k btu. Don't remember why that came up though... This a weil mclain 5 or 6 section boiler.

Pump flange counts as a union around here. However, there is no way to seperate the boiler on the supply side. Thats fine by me though... code or not, its the best way to plumb a boiler...


The pump is on the wrong side of the boiler. You should always pump away from the boiler. The expansion tank and air scoop should also be before the pump... This setup will work, but it is not optimal. I suggest reading a very good book called "Pumping Away" By Dan Hollohan or some such name...

You need to replace the Honeywell Zone valve going to the Indirect fired water heater. When they fail, they fail in the open position. You need to use a taco instead. They fail in the closed position.

Looks like the factory autovent location is capped. The scoop will get the air but the Weil Mclain has a built in baffle that directs the air to that location right behind the supply side port. I suggest putting a vent there.

Put a guage cock on that autovent. Its a consumable part and definitely needs one to make changing them a snap. Think about it...

You should also have unions on the tank. Its code here but a good idea anyways...

I like the single purge valve.

There is a recent recall on the flue damper. Get the dates and serial numbers and check it.


The three zone valve rule is for tacos. They pull .9 amps and a 40va transformer can only take three. You have Honeywells though, I think you can run 9 off a 40va so you are safe. That boiler has a 40va in it.


Forget the controller. They are just more problems. Wiring this hot, or cold, is very easy.



Now for wiring -


Wire nut R and G together on the relay next to the transformer.

Take one yellow wire (does not matter which) from each zone valve and wire them to "R".

Now take "C" and run it to all the thermostats. Run the other leg of the thermostat wire to the other yellow wire of the coresponding zone valve.

Since you are wiring hot, the red wires will not be used.

Its as easy as that. Its simple circuitry. Think it out first then wire it up.


Any more questions, just ask. Good luck


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