# Easy pex brands to use....



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I need info on what brands of pex and what kinds of crimping systems work best

We did a re-pipe last thurdsay with the whole company there and ended up getting done by 6.45 that evening...... I did it out of Wirsbo with the expander rings and ended up probably having a defective expander tool in 3/4... 
I ended up with a few leaks that I was not expecting to have.. all out in the open and easy to repair

I had to tear out about 4... 3/4 joints and the only thing that got us out of there before the sun went down were the shark-bite elbows and couplings I had to use to get the situation under control ...

we had a tight crawl space with a few mean fittings to do down there and I opted for the 3/4x1/2x x1/2 sharkbite tees to get the job done fast instead of trying to use the wirsbo expander, and I was glad I went that way cause that would have been extra mean to 
to do any of those joints over....


anyway, I am a little peeved with my Wirsbo tools
which cost $$$ in the first place and I am thinking of
switching over to something else........



Honestly, I probably could have put the whole job together in shark bite fittings in 2 hours...

they are too expensive at this point to ever consider just doing a re-pipe out of them.... 
but if the price ever came down on shark bite fittings..... 

I would consider it...even though it would lower me to the hack level...


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Which expanded tool do you have?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Did you rotate the expander head with each expansion?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> we had a tight crawl space with a few mean fittings to do down there and I opted for the 3/4x1/2x x1/2 sharkbite tees to get the job done fast instead of trying to use the wirsbo expander, and I was glad I went that way cause that would have been extra mean to
> to do any of those joints over....


 I wouldn't bury one in a wall, but I use sharkbites to transition from PEX to copper in crawlspaces all of the time.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Did you rotate the expander head with each expansion?


That's why I was asking which one he uses.

Milwaukee has a smaller profile expander that has an auto rotating head. It's way cheaper than the ones Wirsbo came out with and a lot smaller.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Crimped pex installs in 1/2 the time of cold expansion systems. I have never heard of any problems using crimped copper rings or crimped stainless steel rings.

Zurn, viega, vanguard, etc


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Plumberman said:


> That's why I was asking which one he uses.
> 
> Milwaukee has a smaller profile expander that has an auto rotating head. It's way cheaper than the ones Wirsbo came out with and a lot smaller.


 I have both of the Milwaukee Expanders, the smaller one is kind of gutless on 1", but they both run circles around the bulky and cumbersome Virax expander.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I was using wirsbo exclusively, but because of price and no good way to manifold it for underslab construction i use crimp now. I use wirsbo pipe and ss cinch rings


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*air expander*

I have an air gun type expander.....
yes we rotate the fittings, and I had kept 
the pressure at only 80psi 

I also have the wirsbo battery operated unit
which seems to work better ...... but for some
reason it would not charge the day I needed it 
of course it is much, much slower......

I threw that 3/4 head away cause I got a few more 
to use if needed again....

in all honesty, if shark bite fittings were only a buck 
each I would rather install them over fooling with any of this junk.....

if someone comes up with either a black plastic shark 
bite in the same material that is used for the Wirsbo fittings
and in all sizes for about a buck each... I would buy them by the gross.

I am pretty sure that it would certainly take over...

we area already useing a black sharkbite elbow fitting on the
back of our water softeners that work very well indeed


its just a matter of time before someone
sees the opportunity to apture a huge part of the market 
share and takes the ball and runs with it....

they pulled my ass out of the fire at 5.45
that evening.....

I guess this makes me a hack....:laughing:


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I have both of the Milwaukee Expanders, the smaller one is kind of gutless on 1", but they both run circles around the bulky and cumbersome Virax expander.


I haven't used the Milwaukee, just saw it in the supply house. The Virax expander sucks for trying to get in tight places, Milwaukee looks as though they solved that? 

When I swapped companies last summer I haven't touched Wirsbo, we run crimp ring pex but hardly much of it. Working for a 100% commerical company has its perks, run a lot of copper these days.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> That's why I was asking which one he uses.
> 
> Milwaukee has a smaller profile expander that has an auto rotating head. It's way cheaper than the ones Wirsbo came out with and a lot smaller.


Did one high rise with copper/316 risers and all wirsbo runs. We used the 14.4v guns supplied by Uponor. 

It is such a cumbersome tool and the batteries do not last long on a per charge basis or an overall lifetime basis.

Never used any style of pex other than that, or any other expander...


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

U666A said:


> Did one high rise with copper/316 risers and all wirsbo runs. We used the 14.4v guns supplied by Uponor.
> 
> It is such a cumbersome tool and the batteries do not last long on a per charge basis or an overall lifetime basis.
> 
> Never used any style of pex other than that, or any other expander...


14.4 Virax sucks, beats hand expanding though, specially on 1"


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> 14.4 Virax sucks, beats hand expanding though, specially on 1"


I should have mentioned that we didn't receive the 14.4 model until we had roughed in about the 12th floor. I have a few hand expander calluses under my belt.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Will said:


> I was using wirsbo exclusively, but because of price and no good way to manifold it for underslab construction i use crimp now. I use wirsbo pipe and ss cinch rings


 I suggest you talk to your UPONOR rep, I was told that the use of any fittings, other than wirsbo expansion type will void the warranty. No crimp type on wirsbo pipe.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Maybe so, but I will stand behind it.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Protech said:


> Crimped pex installs in 1/2 the time of cold expansion systems. I have never heard of any problems using crimped copper rings or crimped stainless steel rings.
> 
> Zurn, viega, vanguard, etc


 Do you use the Brass or plastic fittings ?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Brass. Plastic crimp fittings have too small an ID. If your water doesn't get along with yellow brass, just use bronze fittings. If you are dead set on using plysuplone plastic crimp fittings, you must over size your system as friction losses will be significant.

I use plain jane yellow brass crimp fittings as they have a 20 year track record of use in this area and our water doesn't dezincafy them. Know your water, know your acceptable materials. When in doubt, use bronze.



Cal said:


> Do you use the Brass or plastic fittings ?


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## pcplumber (Feb 10, 2009)

*We just started using pex a few weeks ago.*

We did 5 repipes with the Milwaukee expander, the expandable rings and did not have one leak. For our first job, we knew nothing and the supply house sold us the pex for hot water heating.

We have homes in Las Vegas that had the metal clamps on the pex. We also had several leaks at joints. So, not knowing much about pex, we removed all the pex and installed copper. Now, that I know more about the pex, I think I made a big mistake and should have only changed the fittings.

My plumbers are in love with the pex. They can complete a 2-day repipe in about 6 hours. I think the pex is better because it is less expensive, faster to install, doesn't have the hissing sound that annoys customers, and I'm hoping it will never get pinhole leaks like the copper. I should have started using pex 20 years ago (if it was around that long).


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Vegas has had problems with aggressive water that attacks yellow brass. You should have just changed the fittings to bronze. The crimps themselves did not fail, it was the brass fittings.



pcplumber said:


> We did 5 repipes with the Milwaukee expander, the expandable rings and did not have one leak. For our first job, we knew nothing and the supply house sold us the pex for hot water heating.
> 
> *We have homes in Las Vegas that had the metal clamps on the pex. We also had several leaks at joints. So, not knowing much about pex, we removed all the pex and installed copper. Now, that I know more about the pex, I think I made a big mistake and should have only changed the fittings.
> *
> My plumbers are in love with the pex. They can complete a 2-day repipe in about 6 hours. I think the pex is better because it is less expensive, faster to install, doesn't have the hissing sound that annoys customers, and I'm hoping it will never get pinhole leaks like the copper. I should have started using pex 20 years ago (if it was around that long).


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I use SSC Crimps and the fittings depend on the water conditions.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Redwood said:


> I use SSC Crimps and the fittings depend on the water conditions.


Nothing wrong with that :thumbsup:


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Viega with bronze fittings copper rings.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I have had virtually no problems with Wirsbo pex. I have never used a battery or air expander though, all done manually. 

If you keep your dies clean, rotate the tool and don't over expand you should be fine.





Paul


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## Nevada Plumber (Jan 3, 2009)

I like the Wirsbo system, but it is a pain to work with in tight places. I only use it if I am doing a new construction job.

For everything else, I use Viega with the brass fittings and copper crimp rings.


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Stupid plumber question here (not a whole lot of pex in this area) if yellow brass is questionable and bronze seems to be better in harsh water conditions why take the chance and use brass at all?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Because it usually costs twice as much. If there is no benefit in using it, why pay more?

Stainless steel pipe will outlast copper in corrosive water conditions. You gonna pay for SS all the time just to be safe?



plumb nutz said:


> Stupid plumber question here (not a whole lot of pex in this area) if yellow brass is questionable and bronze seems to be better in harsh water conditions why take the chance and use brass at all?


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Didn't think the price difference would be that large. Typically if its a choice between two different products I'll go with the better one. The cost does get passed on. Is it really that high of a difference?


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## Pipecommandor (Apr 18, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> I need info on what brands of pex and what kinds of crimping systems work best
> 
> We did a re-pipe last thurdsay with the whole company there and ended up getting done by 6.45 that evening...... I did it out of Wirsbo with the expander rings and ended up probably having a defective expander tool in 3/4...
> I ended up with a few leaks that I was not expecting to have.. all out in the open and easy to repair
> ...


We use Zurn pex with copper crimp rings. Love it, never a major problem with the system, a few small leaks but that is do to improper crimping. Use a copper holdrite and a Q-Stub they call it to make the transition in the walls for lavs, shower valves, toilets, etc. Very fast, very cost effective !!


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

Vanguard pex, brass fittings, and copper crimp rings. I use the offset viega crimp tools.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I use the Uponor pro pex system with the milwaukee 12V expander. Never had an issue with it. I use the EP engineered plastic whenever possible with some brass adapters.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

Sharkbites everywhere?

Really? 

Listen to yourself Mark. HD all the way.:no:


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Is there a difference between the Vanguard pipe you get at Lowes and Viega pipe?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Protech said:


> Crimped pex installs in 1/2 the time of cold expansion systems. I have never heard of any problems using crimped copper rings or crimped stainless steel rings.
> 
> Zurn, viega, vanguard, etc


Ya. Quick and reliable. Leaks just do not happen, provided you don't totally slop up your crimps (hard to do, but some idiots manage to do it).


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## Nevada Plumber (Jan 3, 2009)

I was told by my Viega rep that Vanguard sold out to them and was not in the PEX business any more. I'd swear I have paperwork around that says the same thing.

There are no Lowes around me, what sort of Vanguard PEX stuff do they sell?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I know the fittings are different, but didn't know if the pipe was different. The Vanguard pipe is made in the USA


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## Surrey Plumber (Jun 17, 2011)

I prefer to work with Pex, it is alot easier and very quick.


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## J.J (Mar 24, 2010)

at my old company we used wisbro with brass and SS crimp rings. now i use rehau with plastic fittings and SS crimp rings. it is a lot stiffter pex and the fittings go on really hard but we can use it for potable and heating. never had a problem with wisbro and it's ease of use is nice compared to rehau.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

viega pureflow. ss rings and bronze fittings. they do cost quite bit but you can't put a price on a good night's sleep.


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

I just double checked what I've been getting and it's labeled Viega.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Check out the size of this stuff ....*

Got to go here tomorrow and cut out a water heater drain trap in a ceiling up there above this wirsbo pipe..

going to stand on the heater with a helper handing me the tools and fittings.....

that is the largest wirsbo I have run across 1 1/2 pipe 
it is basically *slopped in everywhere* throughout this 4 story apartment complex... each unit is metered off 
with the meter just hanging up in mid air.. with only the pex for support.... all very crappy , sloppy work....:blink::blink:

I cut into the ceiling with a claw hammer, I did not want to even risk knicking anything laying up in-between the floors. with a key hole saw..... 

scares me to think of an emergency call and finding something that size leaking in a wall.. 
cause someone drove a nail to hang a picture.

does anyone out there have these large sized expanding tools ..?? I got only up to one inch but I have never have used them....


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I have the 1 1/2" expander. I use it with the Wirzbo battery expander.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*do you use it much??*



Titan Plumbing said:


> I have the 1 1/2" expander. I use it with the Wirzbo battery expander.


I have never stumbled upon this size yet...

 I guess because its wirsbo , it is probably very good for commercial applications like this... it still looks pretty crappy to me... especially when they transition to another kind of pex to the meter....

I guess it is easy to work with, and most supply 
houses probably carry this size, just never had 
inquired about this big sized stuff..... 
are the fittings pretty much easy to come by in an emergency??


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

< never used PEX over 1"

take some more photos, 

thanks


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> I have never stumbled upon this size yet...
> 
> I guess because its wirsbo , it is probably very good for commercial applications like this... it still looks pretty crappy to me... especially when they transition to another kind of pex to the meter....
> 
> ...


I used it in a micro brewery on a glycol system. We used Wirzbo exclusively, I see your point about the transition.

We had good luck with it, ran from the outside exposed (wrapped in fiberglass and shielded with aluminum) over head into the brewing area. We had one small leak and of course it was in a corner behind all the equipment...LOL BTW, we ran everything inside the brewing area exposed and again wrapped with fiberglass and shielded in white PVC.

It was a very nice install and never gave us any trouble for the 5 yrs they were in business.

Fittings and pipe around here are special order only, so beware. I still have some 1 1/2" fittings I believe. We used all plastic fittings except for the MIP's and FIP's of course.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Almost looks like it's PB pipe coming off the meter.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Is that a MIP x sharkbite 90?


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## abudgetplumb (Aug 22, 2011)

you gotta use the battery expander 1 1/4 is the largest size you can do manually and it's tough to do that fergusons has that size for rent


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