# Relief valves



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

A few years back I made a company policy that if we are in the basement and there is a water heater, we test the relief valve free of charge. If it fails or continues to leak we change it at cost. If the customer complains we give it to them for nothing rather than lose a god customer. Do any of you guys do the same thing?


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

No cause you know how it goes it wasn't t leaking before you touched it


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

The *only* time I touch is relief valve is if I plan on replacing it. If you touch it, it will leak.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

revenge said:


> No cause you know how it goes it wasn't t leaking before you touched it


"sincha factor" 

-Credit to HP/OP (I think)


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

What about the relief valve on the boilers??? Ya gonna test them on improper installed system and risk a airlocked system on your dime??


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The T&P is supposed to be checked by a licensed plumber annually. You're doing your customers a favor by checking it.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

What does the manufactor say about testing thier product?


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> The T&P is supposed to be checked by a licensed plumber annually. You're doing your customers a favor by checking it.


You are correct. 
However they will leak every time if they are tested. So instead of testing just get in to replacing.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> You are correct.
> However they will leak every time if they are tested. So instead of testing just get in to replacing.


The only way they won't leak is if the heater has been flushed out every 6 months and the t&p has been checked every year since it was installed.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Why would you not test the most important part of a water heating device.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

There is too much liability involved in testing them. If that thing leaks a week later you will be blamed. No way out of it.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Then you will be buying hardwood floors, carpet, drywall and whatever else may get damaged.

What's even worse than that is the way it makes you *feel* when something like that happens. The last thing I want is a flood.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

sorry guy i dont test them never crossed my mind


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

justme said:


> The only way they won't leak is if the heater has been flushed out every 6 months and the t&p has been checked every year since it was installed.




I recommend replacing them every 3 years as part of the annual service.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> Why would you not test the most important part of a water heating device.


 If I have to depressurized the system for any reason and valve are over 3 yrs old.. replacment..


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> There is too much liability involved in testing them. If that thing leaks a week later you will be blamed. No way out of it.


Liability, you are doing exactly what the company that makes the product wants you to do. What if a relief valve fails shortly after you say replace a thermocouple. If it goes to court you are going to be asked if you tested the devise like the manufactor suggests.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> Liability, you are doing exactly what the company that makes the product wants you to do. What if a relief valve fails shortly after you say replace a thermocouple. If it goes to court you are going to be asked if you tested the devise like the manufactor suggests.


That's a stretch.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> That's a stretch.


 
*WARNING: REINSPECTION OF T&P RELIEF VALVE: Temperature and Pressure Relief Valves should be reinspected AT LEAST ONCE EVERY THREE
YEARS ​*​​​​by a licensed plumbing contractor or authorized inspection agency, to insure that the product has not been affected by corrosive water conditions
and to insure that the valve and discharge line have not been altered or tampered with illegally. Certain naturally occurring conditions may corrode the
valve or its components over time, rendering the valve inoperative. Such conditions are not detectable unless the valve and its components are physically
removed and inspected. Do not attempt to conduct this inspection on your own. Contact your plumbing contractor for a reinspection to assure continuing
safety. *FAILURE TO REINSPECT THIS VALVE AS DIRECTED COULD RESULT IN UNSAFE TEMPERATURE OR PRESSURE BUILD-UP WHICH CAN RESULT
IN SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH AND/OR SEVERE PROPERTY DAMAGE.
IMPORTANT: *A relief valve functions in an emergency by discharging water. Therefore, it is essential that a discharge line be piped from the valve in order
to carry the overflow to a safe place of disposal. The discharge line must be the same size as the valve outlet and must pitch downward from the valve and​
terminate at least 6"(152mm) above the floor drain where any discharge will be clearly visible. For 100DT discharge line consult your Watts agent.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> That's a stretch.


I don't think so personally, and I'm not a service plumber until the new year... :jester:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Just stating that by doing what the manufactor of the T&P valve wants you to do, it can add a T&P replacement to just about every invoice you write and give a little peace of mind to you and your customers.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeah I get that. 

What I'm saying is that if you test it and it doesn't leak immediately then chances are pretty high that it will leak in the coming days. 

That's why I replace them.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> Just stating that by doing what the manufactor of the T&P valve wants you to do, it can add a T&P replacement to just about every invoice you write and give a little peace of mind to you and your customers.




That's good advise.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I had a helper open one on me one time.. I told him he shouldn't have done it because now we are going to have to replace it. 

Sure enough.. It leaked. I go by experience.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> There is too much liability involved in testing them. If that thing leaks a week later you will be blamed. No way out of it.


Consider the liability for not testing. Also, how would you feel if the house blew up and killed folks and you were there the week before.

I'd say that 99% of our customers are glad we tested it, especially when we explain to them the danger. Those that refuse to pay because " it was fine before you touched it " get a freebie on the house with no argument. BTW, this is just another way to do your customers a service, make a hero out of your company and grow your business.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I had a helper open one on me one time.. I told him he shouldn't have done it because now we are going to have to replace it.
> 
> Sure enough.. It leaked. I go by experience.


If you open and close it many times you can flush out the sediments

Or you can just do replacement. I do about 20 of them a year due to a home inspector checking them


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Here's my take on the boiler system... if the hi velconity pump(s) on the return side of system and using the steel expansion tank without the ATF fitting... most likely the reilef valve will be partily plugged and that I will replace regardless of what needed repair needed to be done. Had one showing 65 lbs at 220 degrees and not opening at rated 30 lbs... shut the gas valve off and came back few hours later.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

easttexasplumb said:


> *WARNING: REINSPECTION OF T&P RELIEF VALVE: Temperature and Pressure Relief Valves should be reinspected AT LEAST ONCE EVERY THREE
> YEARS ​*by a licensed plumbing contractor or authorized inspection agency, to insure that the product has not been affected by corrosive water conditions
> and to insure that the valve and discharge line have not been altered or tampered with illegally. Certain naturally occurring conditions may corrode the
> valve or its components over time, rendering the valve inoperative. Such conditions are not detectable unless the valve and its components are physically
> ...


Where does it say that I have to be the one who does it though :whistling2:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Protech said:


> Where does it say that I have to be the one who does it though :whistling2:


 
Temperature and Pressure Relief Valves should be reinspected AT LEAST ONCE EVERY THREE
YEARS 
by a licensed plumbing contractor or authorized inspection agency, to insure that the product has not been affected by corrosive water conditions
​ 
You dont have to be the one to test or replace it, someone else might.


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## Mpc_mhayes (Nov 27, 2012)

Protech said:


> Where does it say that I have to be the one who does it though :whistling2:


It doesnt. I know that even if you see something that is unsafe you dont have to fix it. And If someone doesnt want to pay to have it done. Put it on the invoice get them to sign it and walk away. I heard a few years back about about a woman calling and said she had Blue ice. Older ball cock on the other side of the wall of her ice maker. Plumber told her she needed a new ballcock. She said no. It got back to the state board and some others. Guy had a hearing and they ruled that if she didnt want to pay, He didnt have to fix it.


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> Just stating that by doing what the manufactor of the T&P valve wants you to do, it can add a T&P replacement to just about every invoice you write and give a little peace of mind to you and your customers.


What does your company charge to replace a T&P valve? Parts and labor IF your already there for another service.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I charge cost for the valve and no charge for the labor. It shouldn't take any longer than about 10 minutes to change it out.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Oh boy the infamous 10 minute job. Only to be outdone by the even more infamous 5 minute job.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

bartnc37 said:


> Oh boy the infamous 10 minute job. Only to be outdone by the even more infamous 5 minute job.


Yeah and god forbid the tank leaks a year later. That will be your fault too.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

bartnc37 said:


> Oh boy the infamous 10 minute job. Only to be outdone by the even more infamous 5 minute job.


 
You win some you lose some. :thumbsup:


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> You are correct.
> However they will leak every time if they are tested. So instead of testing just get in to replacing.


Manufactures testing and maintenance instructions on all sorts of mechanical devices are seldom followed. Do you also flush the heater as required.

The only mandated testing under the Plumbing Code here in Illinois are for Cross Connection Control Devices.

Nothing wrong with following testing schedules and requirements, in fact a good idea. If I were to consider it I would suggest it to the customer first, but I think based on an observation as to its age would just replace it instead of risking a future failure them getting blamed for it.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

I check them when doing my inspections. If they leak I explain that if the valve is maintained it won't leak and its a good thing we caught it while I was there. It is never a problem to get paid for it if it is explained correctly. 
The same as anything else that is inspected on the plumbing system. If it leaks because you touches it does not mean you are at fault and should fix it for free. 
This all boils down to correctly communicating with your customer before you check anything out. I try to have the customer with me when inspecting and let them be part of the solution. Heck in a lot of cases I have them under my direction be the one to check the T&P valve


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I explain what that valve is designed to do and that it can get corroded shut and not function. I then say that when you test if it leaks it means the spring is seized and needs replacement. I then say this is the cost to replace today if it leaks.

Then i ask if they want me to test it. After explaining that that valve is to keep the tank from exploding, I've never had a customer refuse the test. The key is covering all the bases before testing.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Well said.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I test T&P and the water pressure. 

Ever tested a T&P that doesn't go outside? I tested one that dumped into an adjacent addition that used to be an outside patio.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> I test T&P and the water pressure.
> 
> Ever tested a T&P that doesn't go outside? I tested one that dumped into an adjacent addition that used to be an outside patio.


Every time I test one it doesn't go outside. Our heaters are mostly in basements. T&P valves are allowed to discharge to a floor served by a floor drain if it won't cause damage is the way it's worded in our code. Outside discharge is prohibited by our code. It either is the floor option or a dedicated vented receptor.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> *I explain what that valve is designed to do and that it can get corroded shut and not function. I then say that when you test if it leaks it means the spring is seized and needs replacement.* I then say this is the cost to replace today if it leaks.
> 
> Then i ask if they want me to test it. After explaining that that valve is to keep the tank from exploding, I've never had a customer refuse the test. The key is covering all the bases before testing.


Very rarely if never does that happen and I've never seen a spring fail, it's usually the washer or the seat goes bad and it's usually the washer.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Titletownplumbr said:


> Very rarely if never does that happen and I've never seen a spring fail, it's usually the washer or the seat goes bad and it's usually the washer.


I see the springs fail all the time. When you tap the stem, and it stops leaking its a bad spring.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> I explain what that valve is designed to do and that it can get corroded shut and not function. I then say that when you test if it leaks it means the spring is seized and needs replacement. I then say this is the cost to replace today if it leaks.
> 
> Then i ask if they want me to test it. After explaining that that valve is to keep the tank from exploding, I've never had a customer refuse the test. The key is covering all the bases before testing.





RW Plumbing said:


> I see the springs fail all the time. When you tap the stem, and it stops leaking its a bad spring.


No way, that washer and seat will wear before that spring will, you're just assuming that.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Titletownplumbr said:


> No way, that washer and seat will wear before that spring will, you're just assuming that.


When you pull the handle, and it doesn't open right away, you have to wrench the crap out of it, that isn't the seat or washer.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Protech said:


> Yeah and god forbid the tank leaks a year later. That will be your fault too.


I flush the tank, check the anode and bottom of the tank. If I see rust anywhere it gets noted on the sticker I put on the heater, the invoice and notes in the computer. I recommend tank replacement at that time. If the client declines, I leave a paper trail covering me.

I don't test T&P valves per the boss's instructions.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

bartnc37 said:


> Oh boy the infamous 10 minute job. Only to be outdone by the even more infamous 5 minute job.


Loool. So so true. Bites like a viper


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