# Mystery sewer auger...



## iamzoner (Oct 29, 2009)

I showed up to auger a line in an old home. I was told the home was 100 years old. I imagine the plumbing must be newer though. The sewer line is around 130-140 feet. We used a rigid line with a half inch on the first run and a 3/4 inch for the second length. During assessment we could determine that somewhere in the line is at least one breech as sewage was coming back through the ground where the line went into the ground underneath the home.

We spent a total of 18 hours over 2 days trying to auger this line with no success. We put a camera into the city sewer to verify that our blade was making it through the line. It appears that even though our auger blade reaches the city successfully, it doesn't clear out whatever is in the line. We must have made a total of at least 20-30 passes through with various heads on the auger.

Has anyone encountered a line sounding like this that might shed some light on what is happening with his one? Possible solutions for clearing it out?

The only thing I recall seeing with the camera is a bit of tree roots coming out the city side and of the pipe.


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Either you have a soft stoppage of mud or sludge that is keeping the line full but allows your rods to pass through or you have a huge belly in the line. Or both. Did you retrieve anything from the line? Roots, mud, slude, etc.?










Paul


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

18 HOURS  OH MY! How ya gonna present that bill? If your cable was getting through and you haven't got a jetter out there before 18 hours I have to ask are you a Plumber? Of course I wasn't there so you might of had cause but OMFG DUDE. What kind of signs were on your cable when you pulled it back? And don't say none :laughing:


----------



## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

wow 18 hours. what the heck are you using an old push rod?
There is more to this story. There just has to be.
If you camera a line and it looks good. than there is another issue. what else connects to the same line? You mentioned that this is an older house. Keep looking for something else connected that shouldn't be.

" During assessment we could determine that somewhere in the line is at least one breech as sewage was coming back through the ground where the line went into the ground underneath the home"

This solves the issue.
I suggest get a shovel and have a look see


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I did not see an introduction posted, so we know little about you. 

You should post one and tell us a little about yourself, your experience in the trade, etc. 

Anyway, to give you the benefit of the doubt, I will ask you if you are in over your head. Your bio say's apprentice plumber, new construction.

There is an art to drain cleaning. Maybe you need to ask someone (your Master Plumber) for help.


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

BTW, a sewer that long, I'm using 1 1/4" cable in a 1500. (Now don't go rent one and get yourself hurt.)


----------



## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> I did not see an introduction posted, so we know little about you.
> 
> You should post one and tell us a little about yourself, your experience in the trade, etc.
> 
> ...


You really need to watch out for ToUtahNow..........


----------



## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

1/2" on first run and 3/4" on the second length. are you saying that you hooked a 1/2" cable to a 3/4" cable? isn't 1/2" kinda light? do you get people to pay for those hours? sweet. i run a k-60 with open wind cable. i have been known to tie my handle down, flood tile with a hose and go to lunch. let it auger the drain. my god 18 hrs and you are still at the start. can i move there? breid...............:rockon:


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

18 hours...:laughing:

Heck you could have dug the line and replaced it in less than that....:whistling2:

What kind of line is it? Vitrified Clay?


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

affordabledrain said:


> wow 18 hours. what the heck are you using an old push rod?
> There is more to this story. There just has to be.
> If you camera a line and it looks good. than there is another issue. what else connects to the same line? You mentioned that this is an older house. Keep looking for something else connected that shouldn't be.
> 
> ...


It sounds to me like they camera'd the main to make sure the cable had reached the city main. They didn't camera the lateral it's still plugged up after 18 hours.  "Mrs Jones we will be needing $2,000 bones to settle up to this point, sorry we don't have a solution for you yet but I did post the problem to the PlumbingZone so hopefully someone that knows what their doing can point us in the right direction and we will quit wasting your time and money. Will that be cash or charge?" :whistling2:


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Hate to echo, but give more details. Something else is going on, if you don't have the equipment then recommend someone that does.


----------



## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

after the first run through, and no blockage, and no sign of blockage, I would have tried a flush bag. If that did not work, I would of reffered them to another plumber with a camera to check for bellies. Just my 2 cents. Though that woulda been awsome to have two full days of work lined up like that, I'd be afraid to hand them a bill for $2k. For 2K, I coulda rented a Mini Ex from a friend and replaced the whole sewer with a couple of cleanouts and guaranteed it for 1 year.:whistling2:


----------



## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

plumbpro said:


> after the first run through, and no blockage, and no sign of blockage, I would have tried a flush bag. If that did not work, I would of reffered them to another plumber with a camera to check for bellies. Just my 2 cents. Though that woulda been awsome to have two full days of work lined up like that, I'd be afraid to hand them a bill for $2k. For 2K, I coulda rented a Mini Ex from a friend and replaced the whole sewer with a couple of cleanouts and guaranteed it for 1 year.:whistling2:


In one day or less


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

The camera won't do any good until the line is open. You won't be able to see anything. They have already verified the cable was making it to the main and they used several heads, so its Jetter time or if fairly shallow which sounds like it might be (Line goes into ground under the house = crawlspace) could have been dug and replaced in one day. They are 18 hours into it and don't know anymore than when they started.  I have already been accused of being a Basher so should I mention OP has 3 posts and no intro? :no:


----------



## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Piperat said:


> The camera won't do any good until the line is open. You won't be able to see anything. They have already verified the cable was making it to the main and they used several heads, so its Jetter time or if fairly shallow which sounds like it might be (Line goes into ground under the house = crawlspace) could have been dug and replaced in one day. They are 18 hours into it and don't know anymore than when they started.  I have already been accused of being a Basher so should I mention OP has 3 posts and no intro? :no:


The guy with the camera woulda known that, so he would say "get a jetter", I'd say to the HO, "we'll jet the line, then camera it to see what's up, then we can dig up the bad spot. The bottom line is to know when you aren't capable of handling the problem and letting the customer know. This is a good way to build a relationship. A good way to get rich is to f*** the HO for 18 hrs and 2 days, a different HO every 2 days, till you're out of business then move to another town.


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

plumbpro said:


> after the first run through, and no blockage, and no sign of blockage, I would have tried a flush bag. If that did not work, I would of reffered them to another plumber with a camera to check for bellies. Just my 2 cents. Though that woulda been awsome to have two full days of work lined up like that, I'd be afraid to hand them a bill for $2k. For 2K, I coulda rented a Mini Ex from a friend and replaced the whole sewer with a couple of cleanouts and guaranteed it for 1 year.:whistling2:


:thumbsup: he said it all


----------



## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

I noticed the no intro as well, along with BigDawgInc. and a few others. Not bashing, "just sayin' " (in the words of so many others)


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Piperat said:


> The camera won't do any good until the line is open. You won't be able to see anything. They have already verified the cable was making it to the main and they used several heads, so its Jetter time or if fairly shallow which sounds like it might be (Line goes into ground under the house = crawlspace) could have been dug and replaced in one day. They are 18 hours into it and don't know anymore than when they started.  I have already been accused of being a Basher so should I mention OP has 3 posts and no intro? :no:


I'm not sure by what he's saying that a clog even exists...:whistling2:

I/m wondering if they camera'd the line and didn't see jack wrong with it, then cabled the line a zillion times and it still leaks into the basement...

I dunno without someone that can clearly relay the details we'll just sit here and speculate....:blink:


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

plumbpro said:


> *after the first run through, and no blockage, and no sign of blockage,* I would have tried a flush bag. If that did not work, I would of reffered them to another plumber with a camera to check for bellies. Just my 2 cents. Though that woulda been awsome to have two full days of work lined up like that, I'd be afraid to hand them a bill for $2k. For 2K, I coulda rented a Mini Ex from a friend and replaced the whole sewer with a couple of cleanouts and guaranteed it for 1 year.:whistling2:


The above text is what I am interpreting different maybe. The way I read it is they still have a blockage after 18 hours. The only thing I see that is open is the city main where they used a camera to verify their cable made it to the main.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

plumbpro said:


> I noticed the no intro as well, along with BigDawgInc. and a few others. Not bashing, "just sayin' " (in the words of so many others)


Looks like he is a apprentice at least. Why didn't you guy's pin him down to a intro.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Looks like he is a apprentice at least. Why didn't you guy's pin him down to a intro.


I think he Flambuzzled us with the 18 hour drain cleaning.:blink: We were so in disbelief the intro slipped past.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Look at the name, "I am a zoner". He's probably smoking bong hits while his 78 year old blind journeyman is trying to get out of the wheelchair. That's why they are spinning their wheels for 18 hours! :laughing:


----------



## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

K bottom line is sewer still backed up, cable makes it through to city main which is verified to not be stopped up. Multiple rodding indicates line is sludged up for whatever reason. 
Sludge is like thick jello, it stayes closed in around auger, I wouldve used a pressure bulb, jetter, ive even wrapped a towel around auger and pushed sludge out. Man 18 hrs, you the man. Good luck collecting all that.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

mpsllc said:


> K bottom line is sewer still backed up, cable makes it through to city main which is verified to not be stopped up. Multiple rodding indicates line is sludged up for whatever reason.
> Sludge is like thick jello, it stayes closed in around auger, I wouldve used a pressure bulb, jetter, ive even wrapped a towel around auger and pushed sludge out. Man 18 hrs, you the man. Good luck collecting all that.


Would you stroll over and post a intro please. Tell us about yourself. :thumbsup:
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Dang good catch there SlickRick  I had already read the post and didn't realize there was another (POSSIBLE) poser among us. :laughing: I gotta start paying attention.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Dang good catch there SlickRick  I had already read the post and didn't realize there was another (POSSIBLE) poser among us. :laughing: I gotta start paying attention.


You guy's are going to have to tighten up.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

slickrick said:


> You guy's are going to have to tighten up.


That why your the Boss.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Piperat said:


> That why your the Boss.


He is in the chat room, I am going to have to flush him out.

He's hangin' out with Matt.

On to the next case.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Maybe it is the city sewer backed up, ever think of that?

Have everyone on the block flush there toilet all at the same time, see what happens.

Just sayin....


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Ron said:


> Maybe it is the city sewer backed up, ever think of that?
> 
> Have everyone on the block flush there toilet all at the same time, see what happens.
> 
> Just sayin....


They already said they ran a camera in the main to look for their cable at the lateral connection. Setup a block flushing party?:laughing::blink: 

Seriously?

"Ma'am sorry we are up to 24 hours now. I just knew this block flushing party would prove its the city's problem. Oh well I have another theory I'll be back tonight on double time @ full moon to check again maybe it's the Tidal effect." :laughing::yes::no:


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I think the block flushing party is a great idea...

For good measure have them fill their washing machines and spin them out at the same time too!

On tough jobs like this:

*"Go Big Or, Go Home!"* :thumbup:


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Alright looky here Zoner. We couldn't help having some fun with that post. But you guys need to get a jetter or rent one and clear that line. You have to give the cust. a solution to their problem. If someone else comes in there and solves the problem, they look like heroes and you guys look bad. If that line has a massive belly in it, then you'll have to excavate and replace. But you have to solve the problem.


----------



## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)




----------



## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

plumbpro said:


> In one day or less


His location states "Kamloops" which I believe is in British Columbia. The sewers would be a little bit deeper than they are here in Arkansas


----------



## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> His location states "Kamloops" which I believe is in British Columbia. The sewers would be a little bit deeper than they are here in Arkansas


Yeah, I noticed that later, probrably not just a foot deep there


----------



## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

For real I had one yesterday that took me 3 hrs(long time for me) it had a dry co approx 150' out back of house my helper listened as my 4'' blades got to the dry cleanout after a while he started yelling here it comes ,it was nothing but pure sludge, looked like oatmeal.The main thing was it opened just as I was gonna go get my jetter.Its funny how when you threaten a bad sewer with a jetter sometimes they just give it up and start flowing.


----------



## iamzoner (Oct 29, 2009)

*Update...*

Thanks for all the help so far. I myself had figured this was a long sludge line during this call. The main thing about this issue though is that I am the apprentice. I have to go by what my boss is telling me. He is the one with the experience in this stuff so I have to back him up.

Of course we had no idea that after 18 hours we were going to be no further ahead than the start. No need to fret about the client though as we do not price by the hour.

The only things that ever retracted during that entire day was 1 piece of paper that resembled a tampon and literally nothing else. My guess is that by the time we pulled back, anything that could have been attached was simply flushed off on the retraction. The boss also didn't notice anything pushing through the end of the line other than the blade. But by the time we had put the camera down the sewer to check the far end, we were already 12 hours in on the first day.

This line can not be dug up as it extends not only underneath the shed on the owners property, but also underneath the next door property on the way to the city. "Yay city planning and builders" for that one. Nothing else ties into the line as we tried the neighbors plumbing.

Anyway, the city has been out to try and assist. They can not determine whether the line we are pushing through is even the correct line as their opinion is that the closer property should be on the line we are augering through. The neighboring property is a few feet further down the line though. This means that the closer property which is downstream of the house with the issue has to cross over the troubled line on the way to the city.

Ultimately, I imagine we at some point will be having to use a jetter. It will be interesting to see how we use it since it has to travel 70 feet down city sewer first to even get to the back of the line. Unless the employer plans to jet from the cellar downstream which I imagine would make a hell of a mess.

Also, a flush bulb did not work as the initial cleanout travels straight down into a Y. For some reason, my boss explained to me that due to the angle, he could not insert the bulb properly without the risk of it getting stuck.

Several of you were correct that this line run is shallow as it drops approx 18 inches down the cellar before it leaves the home under ground on a horizontal run. We determined the total fall to be no more than a couple of feet on this one which means no head pressure.

Our final opinion as best as we could come up with so far, is that if tree roots broke the line in several spots, that it has the ability to siphon out any water in the drainage leaving all the sludge buildup from semi solids in the line. Furthermore, this problem could go undetected for years potentially with the length of the line as the buildups wouldn't be immediately detectable.

I will have to wait and see what the next step is as I am not the one in charge, I am the one learning.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

I suggest discarding everything he is teaching you on this one. Sounds like the BossMan is in over his head.:yes:


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Drain calls are VERY TOUGH to solve over the internet because so much information can be gained just by feeling the cable. Since none of us where there with you and running the machine, we have to assume we're missing something. 

Roots should be evident on the cutter when you bring the cable back. At this point you've spent so much time so why not bring in all the possible options? You could call in a vac truck and see how much of the line you could empty, maybe get a camera in and see what's happening? I'm still thinking sludge/belly and a jetter is your best bet. Get a few trash cans to catch the mess and get to gettin'. If that's an absolute no-go, how about digging it up outside and installing a clean-out? That would allow you to jet with less mess. This is one that's a bit tough to get my head around since I don't think I've ever spent more than 3 hours on a sewer stoppage before switching gears and going on to plans B, C, or D.






Paul


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Ask the new Mr. Rooter guy.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Sludged up lines can be really tough to get cleared without a jet.

Wrapping rags on the cutter and punching a hole through is one good way.

Another is fill the line as full as you can get it without damage inside then work the cable really slow until the water starts to go down even the slightest amount and then you are on the spot. work it hard in that area back and forth keep adding water as needed until she goes.

Personally I'd put the jetter to it!

But I have done them that way when I didn't want to go get the jetter.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

If it is sludge it would have been seen by the camera when he inspected the line and saw the head. When I pull a cable back that is underwater and it is full of sludge I am wearing he sludge on my golves and shirt.So far no sign of sludge.

A ton of homes up north and in Canada tie storm drains to the sewer.

Someone dropped the ball.

We had a pita one the other day . A septic tank was located in the back of the home. The house is located by the bay and the old spetic tank is roughly 20 feet from the bay,abandoned. Bathroom on the left side of the house ,kitchen in the middle and right beside the kitchen the guest bath. Laundry is to the far right of the home. A 4 inch line wraps around the back of the home to the right and connects to the county sewer located by the street. Two building drains exit the house in the rear.I thought one was for the kitchen and guest bath and the other the master bathroom.

One of the building drains turned out to be the building sewer for some strange reason and went back into the home under the slab and out the front. The 4 inch pvc line in the rear tied into the cast iron building sewer in the front of the home.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> If it is sludge it would have been seen by the camera when he inspected the line and saw the head. When I pull a cable back that is underwater and it is full of sludge I am wearing he sludge on my golves and shirt.So far no sign of sludge.
> 
> A ton of homes up north and in Canada tie storm drains to the sewer.
> 
> ...


Huh?  A drawing or sketch please.


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> Huh?  A drawing or sketch please.


 
I do iso's too. 


















Paul


----------

