# Seized elements



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

I've been workin on a lochinvar commercial electric water heater,it has 3 elements and three thermostats,I tried to get the elements out to change them out and they would not budge at all,I had a 2ft strong arm and socket on theses elements and I was afraid I was gonna twist them off,anybody ever used a impact wrench to get seized elements out???


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

heat them up with a torch and also use some penetrating oil...sometimes that rubber gasket acts like epoxy when it dries out... doesnt matter that you may destroy the element since you are replacing them..and put some anti seize compound on the threads when you reinstall them..


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I've never worked on an electric commercial heater, but have had some pita residential ones. Like SRDH said touch and oil. Next step is a hammer and chisel, like removing a brass clean out cap from cast. If that doesn't work drill 'em out, that usually takes a minute or two.


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## Sipp (Jul 14, 2016)

I've run into this on the big Lochinvar commercial electrics. Penetrating oil and an impact are your best bets. If it twists off, follow OpenSights suggestion.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

I thought this was gonna be a thread about how the government raided your shop?


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

sparky said:


> I've been workin on a lochinvar commercial electric water heater,it has 3 elements and three thermostats,I tried to get the elements out to change them out and they would not budge at all,I had a 2ft strong arm and socket on theses elements and I was afraid I was gonna twist them off,anybody ever used a impact wrench to get seized elements out???


*Sounds like a sign**ed disclaimer is needed before any abnormal removal method is used. The customer must be made aware of the problem, and that, the heater might have to be replaced. You as the servicing contractor might be donating a heater to the cause -- without one! *


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

89plumbum said:


> I thought this was gonna be a thread about how the government raided your shop?


Lolololol not yet anyways:laughing:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *Sounds like a sign**ed disclaimer is needed before any abnormal removal method is used. The customer must be made aware of the problem, and that, the heater might have to be replaced. You as the servicing contractor might be donating a heater to the cause -- without one! *


My thoughts exactly,thanks :thumbup:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

whenever someone calls for a coil replacement in a boiler and there looks to be any chance it will go bad, I explain it to the customer a new boiler may be on the horizon and its noted in the contract that they were notified and accept the possibility of that..your contract is or should be 99.9% to cover your a$$..seems redundant to keep putting that out, but many times a well written contract has saved much aggravation and $$ from both sides..dam lawyer friends are rubbing off too much onto me...seems one spends too much time worrying about liabilities and not enough time about plumbing...:bangin:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

sparky said:


> I've been workin on a lochinvar commercial electric water heater,it has 3 elements and three thermostats,I tried to get the elements out to change them out and they would not budge at all,I had a 2ft strong arm and socket on theses elements and I was afraid I was gonna twist them off,anybody ever used a impact wrench to get seized elements out???


Do y'all know the exact size socket that will fit an element head tight???they all seem kinda loose to me,any tricks to get the socket to fit or grab tighter???


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I dont know the exact size, but the sockets from the plumbing supply are all just that tad bigger, you would have to get a metric set of sockets say from harbor freight, you can get a nice set of 3/4 drive sockets for a decent price and just match one up till you get the exact size for a tight fit...ill have to go play in the shop( when I can get out there) and see if I can match up a tight fitting sized socket for the elements..


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

sparky said:


> Do y'all know the exact size socket that will fit an element head tight???they all seem kinda loose to me,any tricks to get the socket to fit or grab tighter???


*I think the size your looking for is 1-3/4" But the points on the scocket do make a difference EG: 12 POINT VS. 6 POINT Much more torque can be applied to a six point, you are not grabbing just the corners!*


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Honestly I never thought of using a impact on an element. As rare as it comes up for me, harbor freight would be a good source for some sockets. Never had a problem with their sockets in the past.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-piece-metric-3-4-quarter-inch-heavy-duty-socket-set-5494.html this set for $60.00 even though 12 point should be able to take the grunt work of taking out an element if you can match up a socket so it is snug on the element..


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/20-piece-metric-3-4-quarter-inch-heavy-duty-socket-set-5494.html this set for $60.00 even though 12 point should be able to take the grunt work of taking out an element if you can match up a socket so it is snug on the element..


Thanks so much


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

When I use the heating element socket tool, I don't always use a ratchet. At first I'll try the ratchet. If it is really tight and I can't remove it, I will grab my 24" Ridgid aluminum pipe wrench and use that. With the jaws around the body of the element tool, I feel that I get more of a positive torqueing action on the element tool.

I was starting to take a wheel off of my family car once to replace the brakes. The lugs were so tight that my 4-way lug nut wrench was bending. So I found a deep 1/2" drive socket to put on the lug nut, then I used a 24" pipe wrench on the socket followed by a cheater bar of galvanized steel pipe on the handle of the pipe wrench. Then those lugs cracked loose......:yes:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tommy plumber said:


> When I use the heating element socket tool, I don't always use a ratchet. At first I'll try the ratchet. If it is really tight and I can't remove it, I will grab my 24" Ridgid aluminum pipe wrench and use that. With the jaws around the body of the element tool, I feel that I get more of a positive torqueing action on the element tool.
> 
> I was starting to take a wheel off of my family car once to replace the brakes. The lugs were so tight that my 4-way lug nut wrench was bending. So I found a deep 1/2" drive socket to put on the lug nut, then I used a 24" pipe wrench on the socket followed by a cheater bar of galvanized steel pipe on the handle of the pipe wrench. Then those lugs cracked loose......:yes:


On this commercial water heater the elements are inside a metal box,can't get a pipe wrench in there


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

sparky said:


> On this commercial water heater the elements are inside a metal box,can't get a pipe wrench in there














I don't know how badly you want to be a hero and repair this unit, but an idea that I had is to weld a piece of pipe, say 2' long to the element tool. In essence you have a really deep socket. Then, use a 24" or so pipe wrench on the pipe that protrudes out from the W/H and spin those elements out. 

You will be fabricating a tool that you'll use again in the future if you work on commercial stuff a lot.

Whenever I don't have a tool that I need, I make one. Or sometimes I'll make a tool for fun even though they are available commercially.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

with a little creativity you can make something for anything..I had to drill and tap a cluch pedal shaft on a piece of equipment to get a zerk fitting on, so I had to tig weld a socket on the wrench that holds the tap to go about 6 inches into a tight spot and use a extension and ratchet to spin it, worked great and have it for the next time..


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tommy plumber said:


> I don't know how badly you want to be a hero and repair this unit.


Not that much,lolololololo,but that is a good idea on the pipe trick and socket,I not gonna touch it unless they agree that I'm not responsible if something goes wrong trying to get them out


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