# Lead Safe Work Practices?



## spudwrench (Sep 15, 2009)

Have an opportunity to add a 1/2 bath with some mid-range fixtures to an older home that is not an owner occupied residence. The permit requires the title above. How does this affect us as plumbers? How has this part of the stimulus package affected you? I am not certified, and have read the law,but have done most all of my work in homes that were previous to '78. Am I going to loose this job?, or how will this federal law be doable to my advantage? Any comments welcome??????????????


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

Well first off, you have to be lead safe certified, which is the most boring 8 hour class you'll ever sit through. If you're not the one doing the demo of the walls that may have lead paint, then it's not your problem. It's all about removal of lead paint.


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

Depends on your location.

Out here in Cali the "0" lead content brass law has been in effect.

Requires using faucets,valves,fittings etc. that comply with the code.
Therefore, plumbing items like those cost more.

Me thinks that Vermont has the same rules.

For example,I can not install a delta 100 faucet here.Delta never remanufactured it to comply.

Wait until they enact similar in other states.

Not to do with the lead law, but re: water heaters in Cali...

lo nox water heater is not legal...

we have to install ultra lo nox water heaters.

Add another $ 100.00 -150.00 to the already inflated WH prices.

A BW 50 gallon ultra low nox water heater with tax is about $ 525.00


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

That's the reason for the 3' supplies on faucets !!!!


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

In calif where I am, any remodel in building built in or prior to 1978 needs hazard testing for lead base paint and asbestos. Contaminated materials must be removed by certified crew and disposed of in a propper manner, lower lead levels can go to the dump, higher levels need to be sealed and packaged in containers (in calif we ship bad stuff to az). Owner builders must also comply with testing and disposal but may do there own demo. 

This has held up jobs and is costing home owners lots of $$$. 


Know one has said anything to me about disposing of lead pipes, knock on wood 
:-/


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Lead safe work practices... that refers to the lead paint law and opening more than X many square feet of drywall, if the building is older than a certain year.


As for lead free faucets, that is a FEDERAL law, it is just that CA phased it in sooner. I think it is national in 2014.

The ultra-lo nox only applies in certain counties...but it does take in most of the major population areas EXCEPT San Diego county, because we let all our smog blow down to Tijuana!


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

> That's the reason for the 3' supplies on faucets !!!!


yeah , and the pre crimped adapters on the end of those 3' hoses are 3/8" compression .
perfect for a 3/8" angle stop, 
problem is, in Cali , most angle stop outlets are ½" ips

so you need a 3/8" compression x ½" mip adapter and a ½" x ½" supply hose


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

HOMER said:


> yeah , and the pre crimped adapters on the end of those 3' hoses are 3/8" compression .
> perfect for a 3/8" angle stop,
> problem is, in Cali , most angle stop outlets are ½" ips
> 
> so you need a 3/8" compression x ½" mip adapter and a ½" x ½" supply hose


I change out the angle stops


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

My understanding of the law is the company must have one person licensed and the one working on the job must have a second license to do the work. They are not the same license. My understanding of the law is anything demo under 6 sq feet there is no need to follow the law unless you do not cut the drywall with a drywall knife or hand saw.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> My understanding of the law is the company must have one person licensed and the one working on the job must have a second license to do the work. They are not the same license. My understanding of the law is anything demo under 6 sq feet there is no need to follow the law unless you do not cut the drywall with a drywall knife or hand saw.


A GC friend of mine just got his lic for lead abatement, he also got his crew certified to do the (lead abatement) work. We will be renovating a historical building, work has already began.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Only 1 person in the shop needs a license to do the work. That person may train others to do it. But it all comes down to the license holder if anything is wrong. Right about the 6 sq ft. But all this is only an issue if a child lives or visits there that is 6 or under or if the woman is pregnant. That's it.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

house plumber said:


> Only 1 person in the shop needs a license to do the work. That person may train others to do it. But it all comes down to the license holder if anything is wrong. Right about the 6 sq ft. But all this is only an issue if a child lives or visits there that is 6 or under or if the woman is pregnant. That's it.


 




I never bothered to get the OSHA lead license or whatever it's called. I hear the fine is really, really up there if a person is caught. From what I understand, only federal agents are enforcing this. In other words, a local yokel inspector won't (and maybe cannot) bust you for not properly disposing of the lead-containing materials.

I am not trying to skirt the law, I just have been procrastinating.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I never bothered to get the OSHA lead license or whatever it's called. I hear the fine is really, really up there if a person is caught. From what I understand, only federal agents are enforcing this. In other words, a local yokel inspector won't (and maybe cannot) bust you for not properly disposing of the lead-containing materials.
> 
> I am not trying to skirt the law, I just have been procrastinating.


EPA is enforcing. It's like a $32,500 for each violation. So if they come out and see 8 violations, You're screwed.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I have heard about that $ 32,000.00 fine. That's pretty steep, I usually don't carry that kind of cash on me...:laughing:


Kidding of course. I will be looking into getting that certification...:yes:


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I never bothered to get the OSHA lead license or whatever it's called. I hear the fine is really, really up there if a person is caught. From what I understand, only federal agents are enforcing this. In other words, a local yokel inspector won't (and maybe cannot) bust you for not properly disposing of the lead-containing materials.
> 
> I am not trying to skirt the law, I just have been procrastinating.


I believe you are correct. In my town building inspector will not allow jobs to move forward without testing or propper abatement. Landfill will not accept demo debris without propper certification showing low or no lead levels. Small town, rural area, only one landfill.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I have heard about that $ 32,000.00 fine. That's pretty steep, I usually don't carry that kind of cash on me...:laughing:
> 
> 
> Kidding of course. I will be looking into getting that certification...:yes:


 
Come on. You're a plumber in Florida. That's pocket change for you.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I wish...


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I wish...


Me too.


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

house plumber said:


> Only 1 person in the shop needs a license to do the work. That person may train others to do it. But it all comes down to the license holder if anything is wrong. Right about the 6 sq ft. But all this is only an issue if a child lives or visits there that is 6 or under or if the woman is pregnant. That's it.


Those child requirements were part of guidelines for eligibility of a waiver, all that expired last summer. No waivers allowed anymore, regardless of the occupants. It's 6 s ft of interior wall, and up to a larger portion for exterior wall. Damn that class was boring. I think it was about $250 a head just to take the class.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

What's funny is everyone who has to deal with this new law and everyone who wrote this law all grew up with lead in our lives. And we aren't retarded. Or are we?


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

That, er..........um................person in your avatar musta been chewing on the lead paint covered windowsills and baseboards as a child............

:laughing:


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Plumb Bob said:


> A GC friend of mine just got his lic for lead abatement, he also got his crew certified to do the (lead abatement) work. We will be renovating a historical building, work has already began.



Lead abatement and the RRP rule are separate deals.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*32,000 fine?*

:laughing:So they can fine me 32,500 for tearing out a wall to do a bath re-model in an old dump....... 

but the crack heads who will probaly be renting the house and letting their kids inhale their second hand smoke get a welfare check and food stamps.....:laughing:

the people who came up with such retarted rules and fines should be checked for lead poisoning:yes:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Here you go know it all.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Another page from the lead book.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> My understanding of the law is the company must have one person licensed and the one working on the job must have a second license to do the work. They are not the same license.


There has to an individual certified on the job and the "company" he works for must be certified.

So even if working as a one-man-shop, the company as an entity must pay for registration in addition to the person that does the work. So there is a fee collected for the people working and an additional fee collected for the business that employs them.

As far as people are concerned, I think the only person that has to be registered is the one on the job working.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Colgar said:


> Lead abatement and the RRP rule are separate deals.


???


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Plumb Bob said:


> ???


http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm#abatement

Excerpt... 
_4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination of lead-based paint hazards. Furthermore, abatement does not include interim controls, operations and maintenance activities, or other measures and activities designed to temporarily, but not permanently, reduce lead-based paint hazards._


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

house plumber said:


> Only 1 person in the shop needs a license to do the work. That person may train others to do it. But it all comes down to the license holder if anything is wrong. Right about the 6 sq ft. But all this is only an issue if a child lives or visits there that is 6 or under or if the woman is pregnant. That's it.


 
That is not what the local PHCC is teaching about this new law and the licnese for those doing the work . Each lead person must be certified that is working in a home.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Plumb Bob said:


> ???





plbgbiz said:


> http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/traincert.htm#abatement
> 
> Excerpt...
> _4. Abatement does not include renovation, remodeling, landscaping or other activities, when such activities are not designed to permanently eliminate lead-based paint hazards, but, instead, are designed to repair, restore, or remodel a given structure or dwelling, even though these activities may incidentally result in a reduction or elimination of lead-based paint hazards. Furthermore, abatement does not include interim controls, operations and maintenance activities, or other measures and activities designed to temporarily, but not permanently, reduce lead-based paint hazards._


What he said.

Or as explained to me- The purpose of lead abatement is for removal of the lead. The RRP rule is for dealing with work in areas where lead is present.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> There has to an individual certified on the job and the "company" he works for must be certified.
> 
> So even if working as a one-man-shop, the company as an entity must pay for registration in addition to the person that does the work. So there is a fee collected for the people working and an additional fee collected for the business that employs them.
> 
> As far as people are concerned, I think the only person that has to be registered is the one on the job working.




What if you're a sole proprietor? There is nos company entity in that case.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

mccmech said:


> What if you're a sole proprietor? There is nos company entity in that case.


According tot he EPA I think there is. You the worker and you the D.B.A.

You didn't think they'd let that slide did you? :laughing:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> According tot he EPA I think there is. You the worker and you the D.B.A.
> 
> You didn't think they'd let that slide did you? :laughing:[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

Then depending on what/where your working in the Chicago area,the plumber comes in and fires up the lead furnace to pour all of those lead joints on the W+V lines.................


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

leakfree said:


> Then depending on what/where your working in the Chicago area,the plumber comes in and fires up the lead furnace to pour all of those lead joints on the W+V lines.................


Never said it made sense. :laughing:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Never said it made sense. :laughing:


It is only lead dust such as paint chips, walls painted with lead paint, certain enamels on tile - fixtures. The law is not for virgin lead like plumbers use for piping joints and whatever!


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