# Lets talk E-Pipe/New Flow water pipe lining



## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

So got a project for a fast food restaurant. The current line is 1-1/4" L soft copper 100' from meter to riser in middle of restaurant. They've experienced a handful of leaks in the parking lot area and these repairs have been costly due to asphalt. A new pipe is feasible, just gonna be a large project having to go up exterior wall and above T-Bar and whatnot. So anybody have experience with E-Pipe epoxy coating? Pros n cons. I thougt about bursting a new line in but access to inside riser is tight. Any thoughts?


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

Push some 1" pex through it. Hehe. 

I've always been skeptical about the water pipe lining. I heard that it can seal holes up an 1/8".


I'm interested to hear if anyone have experience with it as well.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Nathan901 said:


> Push some 1" pex through it. Hehe.
> 
> I've always been skeptical about the water pipe lining. I heard that it can seal holes up an 1/8".
> 
> ...


T think the OD of 1" pex is bigger than 1-1/4". With that said....perhaps 3/4" pex! Hmm!:whistling2:


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Bore it in from the meter , ask these hack epoxy liners what their warranty is on a commercial water line like that lol.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

justme said:


> Bore it in from the meter , ask these hack epoxy liners what their warranty is on a commercial water line like that lol.


So I take it yur view is negative? Have you has experience with it? I'd consider other options such as boring, But i don't do it, and I don't know of anyone in the area who does. I know this issue needs to be resolved quickly as there's a large flow of water coming from the main, and flowing down the entry way and the gutter, so the water police will soon becoming involved I'm sure!


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

If you can sell them on the epoxy liner and the job is big enough it may come close to paying for itself in one job. I've been eyeing that system. I'm just not sure how safe it is to drink water flowing through epoxy. I guess it's no different than the plastic water bottles and Pex piping.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> If you can sell them on the epoxy liner and the job is big enough it may come close to paying for itself in one job. I've been eyeing that system. I'm just not sure how safe it is to drink water flowing through epoxy. I guess it's no different than the plastic water bottles and Pex piping.


Dunno how many different setups/manufacturers there are. But, one of the iCal plumbers in my town got the whole setup a few years ago and he dropped $160,000 on all the needed equipment.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

I was quoted $45K.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

I would think this is an insurance claim by the customer on a commercial building, ... so have your ducks in a row on a bid as it will prolly be reviewed by an adjuster.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> I was quoted $45K.


Perhaps he was including the brand new 3500 cutaway he uses to pull the custom 22' trailer that houses all the equipment!


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

The experience I have with these systems is all in a commercial setting. I have never installed it myself just acted as the GC for 3 jobs , 2 were sewer relining and 1 was a 3" water line. One of the sewer relinings failed after 6 years with a 5 year warranty. The water line failed after 5 years with a 4 year warranty . I will never ever never use these type of systems ever never again. Not when I can bore a new 3" water line in for about 16 dollars a foot for the boring . The sewer line I will just price to replace inside the building and definitely bore in a parking lot environment.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

http://www.calboring.com/About/


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

justme said:


> The experience I have with these systems is all in a commercial setting. I have never installed it myself just acted as the GC for 3 jobs , 2 were sewer relining and 1 was a 3" water line. One of the sewer relinings failed after 6 years with a 5 year warranty. The water line failed after 5 years with a 4 year warranty . I will never ever never use these type of systems ever never again. Not when I can bore a new 3" water line in for about 16 dollars a foot for the boring . The sewer line I will just price to replace inside the building and definitely bore in a parking lot environment.


How'd it fail?


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> How'd it fail?


Yea! What jay said


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

sierra2000 said:


> How'd it fail?


The company we used stated their product failed due to " overuse in a commercial enviroment. The sewer line failed by the bottom of the liner wearing out just like the original pipe , the water line cracked somewhere and started leaking at a few of the original leaks , didn't have time to investigate why just bored in a new line. So good luck with your water line epoxy and sewer liners , hopefully you have a better run with it.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

There's vinyl ester resin and there's epoxy resin. I wish I knew which types are failing.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Had a customer with a slab leak last year. Located the leak and gave them options on repipe, reroute or busting the floor and patching. After discussing we decided the repipe would be the best fit. He asked about the epoxy lining systems. He decided to take that route with a company that offered it. They came out and did their service for about the same pice as the repipe. When the water was turned on they noticed the next day that the slab leak was still there. The company came back and re routed that line. I'm not sold on the system yet.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

HSI said:


> ...The company came back and re routed that line...


How did they tie onto a lined pipe for the reroute?


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

justme said:


> Bore it in from the meter , ask these hack epoxy liners what their warranty is on a commercial water line like that lol.


At this point I feel his particular companies warranty is moot as he is trying to sell the biz and relocate to Oklahoma! So that obviously concerns me.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> At this point I feel his particular companies warranty is moot as he is trying to sell the biz and relocate to Oklahoma! So that obviously concerns me.


Yeah, I'd be worried about someone planning to relocate to Oklahoma as well. He obviously is not thinking clearly.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> How did they tie onto a lined pipe for the reroute?



If it was copper they definitely didn't solder, probably some of those good sharkbites.:laughing:


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Yeah, I'd be worried about someone planning to relocate to Oklahoma as well. He obviously is not thinking clearly.


I guess he his got family there. Apparently his California lic. Is transferable to Texas (dunno the truth to that) then after he gets his Texas masters lic. I guess it's transferable to Oklahoma! I told him I wouldn't bother as a buddy of mine runs one of the best shops in Oklahoma, so naturally I told him its....WILL ROGERS PLUMBING! Haha!


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

No license is tranferable to Texas , now there license can be used to verify their work experience but they will still have to take the test probably the same way in Oklahoma


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

justme said:


> No license is tranferable to Texas , now there license can be used to verify their work experience but they will still have to take the test probably the same way in Oklahoma


Yea that's what I meant to say. As he stated, his hours will be verified but still needs to take the test. Thanks


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

justme said:


> No license is tranferable to Texas , now there license can be used to verify their work experience but they will still have to take the test probably the same way in Oklahoma


Yep, no reciprocation to/from Texas or Oklahoma. Considering the difficulty, getting an Oklahoma license nowadays is like getting it from a vending machine compared to the Texas test. There be some real Plumbers south of the Red River.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> ...I told him I wouldn't bother as a buddy of mine runs one of the best shops in Oklahoma, so naturally I told him its....WILL ROGERS PLUMBING! Haha!


I agree. I keep trying to get a job working for Will but I can't pass the pre-employment exam. Something about a doll house. :laughing:


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> I agree. I keep trying to get a job working for Will but I can't pass the pre-employment exam. Something about a doll house. :laughing:


Doll house! That's funny


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Do yall not have to do the doll house?


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> How did they tie onto a lined pipe for the reroute?


Not sure how they did it. Ran into the customer at a picnic and he told me all about it.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

chonkie said:


> Do yall not have to do the doll house?



Texas yes. Oklahoma no.

My Oklahoma Master test took about seven hours. The breaks were escorted restroom trips. 100 multiple choice questions, gas drawing, 10+/- essay type questions, gas drawing with sizing, draw and size water, waste, and vents for a five story building, measure/cut/thread 90deg steel pipe jig, measure/cut/solder 45deg copper jig, poly gas fusion jig, PVC drainage jig and fitting identification. Tape measure and a pencil was the only thing you could bring into the testing area.

Today it is 70 or 80 multiple choice questions on a computer with a strict time limit...OPEN BOOK. Bring your code books with tabs to test with. Apparently what really matters in Oklahoma is the ability to look up code technicalities really fast.

What is really sad is the pass rate never went up.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Open book?!!!!!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> Open book?!!!!!



Exactly. Yet still most guys fail first time through. Their Journeymen and employers must be real idiots.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> Open book?!!!!!


My Virginia license was the same thing. Open book but I think was 200 questions.


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## Gruvplumbing (Dec 26, 2013)

Pennsylvania is open book too. It's a joke. And it's not a state wide test either. Each town or municipality has there own license.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> Open book?!!!!!



Yes Oklahoma is open book, I wouldn't call it a breeze though. With the time limit(think it was 2 hours if I remember right) if you don't know your $h!t you won't pass. The Business and Law test you take after the Plumbing and Gas test ain't know walk in the park either. I aced the Plumbing and Gas, but I barely passed the Business and Law. I passed 1st time atleast.... The Texas test I thought was much easier on the questions, but not open book. The shop work test they do is easy, and the doll house test aint to bad


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> I guess he his got family there. Apparently his California lic. Is transferable to Texas (dunno the truth to that) then after he gets his Texas masters lic. I guess it's transferable to Oklahoma! I told him I wouldn't bother as a buddy of mine runs one of the best shops in Oklahoma, so naturally I told him its....WILL ROGERS PLUMBING! Haha!



I hear that Will Rogers guy is something else, what a guy I hear


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> I hear that Will Rogers guy is something else, what a guy I hear



And humble too. 😄


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> And humble too. dde04


He's a rare breed


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

If you think just because it is open book it is easy you need to take the test, the questions are some of the obscure questions they can find in the fine print. Arkansas is the same way.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Will said:


> I hear that Will Rogers guy is something else, what a guy I hear


That's exactly what I told the plumber from my area who is considering moving to Oklahoma. :thumbsup:


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## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

The e-pipe or epoxy lining I have dug up failures in my area. A friend of mine dug up 4 failures in one house about 3 months ago. I went to look at the failures after he called me from the next city over. One problem is you can not seal a big leak or every leak with the system. The other problem is the system has to be blasted to clean the inside of the pipe. If you have dead end runs or kinks in the system you are going to have a premature failure. There can be problems cleaning the entire system too. I do know a company that has been doing this a good while and they have told me that you are going to have warranty and failures with the system guaranteed. If you go online and read about failures with the epoxy pipe lining for domestic systems you will see a lot of upset customers. I do lining on sewers and have not had any problems yet. The failures I have dug up from competitors was a failure on installation. I know this because they were collapsed and not fulled cured on install. The good thing about this now if you can pull in caltube you can steam them back open and they will hold if they have been wet out properly. As to failures with restaurants I would go with a thicker mil on commercial anyway or you can always burst. I am not sold on epoxy for domestic systems, just my opinion.


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