# black water pipe



## kellybhutchings

What is the black water pipe that you find in old trailer houses. Its a little thicker than qest but thinner than pex. What is the best way to repair it. I had to repair some today and had a hard time getting a qest to pex adapter to fit.


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## user4

It's polyetheylene, which is commonly used for well pipe, it is assembled using grey polyethelyne barbed fittings and hose clamps. Years ago it was the preffered pipe of residential irrigation contractors.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Id agree with spider, if you cant get a a repipe out of the deal, and they probably wouldnt be able to afford it, hose calmps and barbed fittings. should be able to find that stuff at an irrigation supply house.


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## pzmember

Killertoiletspider said:


> It's polyetheylene, which is commonly used for well pipe, it is assembled using grey polyethelyne barbed fittings and hose clamps. Years ago it was the preffered pipe of residential irrigation contractors.


 damn kts i live in a hick town. you can use poly on new residential and commercial as long as its 200lbs if you can believe it, i still talk my customers into k copper.


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## rocksteady

Killertoiletspider said:


> It's polyetheylene, which is commonly used for well pipe, it is assembled using grey polyethelyne barbed fittings and hose clamps. Years ago it was the preffered pipe of residential irrigation contractors.


 
i was always under the impression that it was polybutylene, not polyethylene. 

i used to use the qest compression fittings to repair it. now i just use sharkbites. in either case a repipe is very strongly recomended and repairs aren't guaranteed due to the brittle-ness of the pipe.







paul


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## Ron

We call it black poly yard pipe, it's cheap, like what 10 to 15 a foot, maybe less, I have not priced it lately, I don't use it, won't use it. I'll transition to pex pipe on a repair when I have to fix it.


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## kellybhutchings

the pipe I am talking about was originally installed with what looks like qest fittings and aluminum crimp rings. But the qest to pex adabters just don't fit like thay do in the gray qest pipe. Next time I will try the sharkbite fittings.


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## Protech

It is polybutylene with black dye in it. It's pretty common here. Standard poly by pex adapters work on it as well as sharkbites, qicktights(not recomended) and genova fittings.


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## PlumcrzyRedneck

I just fixed a line under a trailor yesterday and it was that half inch black tube stuff, I used a half inch pex coupling and the stainless crimp rings. The coupling was a little loose but the rings crimped down and it worked.


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## TDB

the boss just told us in a meeting the other day that we are to use pex fittings and crimp rings to repair it. We use the SS crimp rings if that makes a difference..

I have not done it but it came up with one of our other plumbers and thats how he got it done...


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## TDB

BTW, I'g get fired if I used hose clamps and barbs to fix anything


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## Protech

The proper way would be to use a pex by polybutylene transition coupling.


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## Ron

Protech said:


> The proper way would be to use a pex by polybutylene transition coupling.


Are those only for quest pipe? The gray/black quest pipe that is found in older mobile homes?


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## rocksteady

i would be pretty leary about crimping 20 year old poly lines. the ones we have around here get so brittle i would expect it to crack as soon as you crimped the ring. same with hose clamps. that's why i like the sharkbites. you can cut out 10' of polybutylene and put in 10' of pex with a pair of couplings. in the time you save you can write up a proposal for a repipe.:thumbup:








paul


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## Protech

I've never had an issue with the crimped couplings though there is nothing wrong with using a sharkbite.


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## Herk

Yeah, the black pipe is polybutylene - the 'carbon black' makes it sunlight resistant.

By all means use the PB/PEX crimp adapters. I wouldn't use a Sharkbite on that because the pipe is thinner than the Sharkbite insert will support. (I pull the insert when using either copper or CPVC) 

Most of the repairs I make on trailers with polybutylene, either gray or black, is because the aluminum crimps have failed. If they get wet they'll just disintegrate. Either that, or a barbed acetal fitting has split, usually lengthwise under the crimp ring.


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## Protech

I agree. I notice that very few of the PB leaks are on the pipe it self. I'm not saying it is good stuff but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. Some of the later systems that came out have stood up pretty well but by the time they worked most of the kinks out PB had the bad rap so no one used it. There are hundreds of houses in my area that have 20 year old PB systems that use copper fittings and crimp rings and the only leaks I've seen so far were pin-hole leaks on the fittings not the PB pipe.

I've seen many PB systems that were on lightly chlorinated well water that that have yet to leak even once.

Food for thought.


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## smellslike$tome

Protech said:


> I agree. I notice that very few of the PB leaks are on the pipe it self. I'm not saying it is good stuff but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. Some of the later systems that came out have stood up pretty well but by the time they worked most of the kinks out PB had the bad rap so no one used it. There are hundreds of houses in my area that have 20 year old PB systems that use copper fittings and crimp rings and the only leaks I've seen so far were pin-hole leaks on the fittings not the PB pipe.
> 
> I've seen many PB systems that were on lightly chlorinated well water that that have yet to leak even once.
> 
> Food for thought.


I've seen plenty of leaks in the piping. I'm not a water chemist but it is my understanding that polybutylene is susceptibale to chlorimine degradation. Every time I dig up a leak in "black poly" it's a pin hole leak. Once it starts it doesn't stop. Repipe is the only rational answer but not everybody believes it necessary or can afford it so we patch it when we have to. If it's in the ground it's almost always 1". I don't carry 1" pex gear except Wiersbo which is useless on polybutylene. So, although I don't really like it, if it's in the ground I will generally use a compression coupling. 

If it's the grey polybutylene water distribution piping, then in my view, sharkbites are the only way to go. I am not a fan of sharkbites. I'm concerned about what the chloramines will do to the rubber o-rings in a few years and I just don't like the way they look. However, when your talking about polybutylene under a manufactured home where if it leaks it's not going to damage anything, I think it's the perfect tool for the job. Make sure you use the inserts for the pipe ends.


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## smellslike$tome

I'm going to correct myself. After checking on it it seems that free chlorine is more suspect in PB failures than chloramines are. Like I said, I'm not a chemist.


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## Protech

Yeah I've seen a good bit of leaks on the 1" water service pipe. I believe that stuff is thinner though. I'm talking about the thicker stuff in 3/4" and 1/2" with the copper fittings. It usually leaks on the copper fittings.

I'm not saying that poly butylene is good stuff. I'm just saying certain types of the PIPE actually held up pretty good. Some PB systems have lasted longer than copper systems in my area. If seen some mobile homes that have a thicker PB pipe with polysulphone fittings that have gone 15-20 years with no leaks which is more than I can say for many copper houses in the area. 

It's my understanding that PB is still used in many parts of the world without incident. Most of the world uses 1/2 the amount of chlorine that the US uses in its water though.

I think the reason PB was abandoned by the plumbing industry is that the engineers cheaped out on it for so long that by the time most of the kinks were worked out of the PB systems, other plastic systems had been introduced that that held up better Like PEX, polypropylene and even CPVC(which I'm not a fan of)


PB is still used as a tank liner in the US but production of pipe is done.



smellslike$tome said:


> I've seen plenty of leaks in the piping. I'm not a water chemist but it is my understanding that polybutylene is susceptibale to chlorimine degradation. Every time I dig up a leak in "black poly" it's a pin hole leak. Once it starts it doesn't stop. Repipe is the only rational answer but not everybody believes it necessary or can afford it so we patch it when we have to. If it's in the ground it's almost always 1". I don't carry 1" pex gear except Wiersbo which is useless on polybutylene. So, although I don't really like it, if it's in the ground I will generally use a compression coupling.
> 
> If it's the grey polybutylene water distribution piping, then in my view, sharkbites are the only way to go. I am not a fan of sharkbites. I'm concerned about what the chloramines will do to the rubber o-rings in a few years and I just don't like the way they look. However, when your talking about polybutylene under a manufactured home where if it leaks it's not going to damage anything, I think it's the perfect tool for the job. Make sure you use the inserts for the pipe ends.


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## Herk

Protech said:


> There are hundreds of houses in my area that have 20 year old PB systems that use copper fittings and crimp rings and the only leaks I've seen so far were pin-hole leaks on the fittings not the PB pipe.


As I've said whenever this has come up, I plumbed my own house in it. I have the Manabloc with all the little valves and the manifold system with no fittings except at the ends. (With the exception of the incoming 1" line.) I have never had a single problem with the system, nor do I expect to for a long time.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

You have a manabloc with poly? Never seen one with poly.


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## Protech

Yep. They use to use poly befor pex went main stream for manabloc.


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## smellslike$tome

Herk said:


> As I've said whenever this has come up, I plumbed my own house in it. I have the Manabloc with all the little valves and the manifold system with no fittings except at the ends. (With the exception of the incoming 1" line.) I have never had a single problem with the system, nor do I expect to for a long time.


Do you have a whole house filter for chlorine? What is your house water pressure? Does your water come from the city or from a well? What color is the pipe?


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