# No more A O Smith gas



## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Got a 4:45PM call last night of a water heater leaking which serves an apartment. Went dug my way in through old stuff now stored in this old horse stable below the apt, which is where the WH was located. This is a histrorical museum btw. wrestled the old unit out (loaded) installed a A O Smith 40 gallon in and after all that the pilot would not stay lit after letting off the button. Called the supply dudes cell and imagine this I'm the first one to have this problem with this new model. ( yeah yeah right). Started to pull the burner assembly out and decided this is bs. It could be the Tcple has shifted down or this or that, could be the control malfunction but then decided no, I went for a Rheem from a different supplier. I'm tired of working on AO Smith with thier design issues. Mostly I'm tired of selling them to customers. I'm not sure of BW's or Rheems, but thinking about going with BW's. I got home at 8 after doing this twice.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Residential gas water heaters suck. I think it is an effort to get us to put in tankless water heater, but they suck too. Electric water heaters are still easy to troube shoot and get parts for.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Yeah I'm not having trouble with the electrics but they can't seem to get thier groove on with the gas models. Hoping the others are better.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

They all have their problems now, it stems from the new tech in them, of all the heaters we put in I typically prefer ao smith/state or premier. When the safety device fails inside them you can easily replace. Rheem gas device fails, change the heater.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*you did the right thing*

The Smith models are total junk...

We have done ok with the Bradfords since 2003....
with very little problems with the fvir systems...

The Rheems I thought was gonna be a problem 
but it turns out they have a pretty good fvir system..... 

the only thing I have noticed between them both is 
the Bradfords do not seem to last as long if their is 
a water softener in the system ... we have had a rash of
 leakers going out in 4+5 years all with soft water

the Rheems are doing much better as far as length of life....
and I dont remember the last one we changed under warranty....


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Just remember to keep a thermopyle on the truck for the bradford whites now. I install lochnivar goes down the same assembly line as bradfords but has the old gas valves and thermocouples.


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## piedpiper (Mar 28, 2011)

we stopped putting in ao s**t because we were always fixing or replacing them.bradfords are probably tops in my opinion with rheem not far behind.both are pretty solid.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I'm looking forward to thier response when I return this pos moday AM. But hey if I can't even be positive the pilot will stay lit when I install it why would I contiunue gambling with them.


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## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

I had been avoiding Rheem because of the safety switch, but i have successfully replaced the switch--not sure you can buy the switch, but being able to replace the switch has caused me to switch to Rheem. BW charges to use warranty and have bad attitude, in my opinion (I'm sure it's a regional thing. AOSmith's first generation FVIR were apparently a lot of trouble (series 100?): problems with inlet screen getting clogged.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Bradford White and Lochinvar is how I fly....

If the cusomer wants something else they can provide it....


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I put an A.O Smith in once and some how the foam they spray made it into the burner and it caught fire when I fired it up. It went out as soon as I turned the gas off but it still scared the sh*t out of me.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

house plumber said:


> I put an A.O Smith in once and some how the foam they spray made it into the burner and it caught fire when I fired it up. It went out as soon as I turned the gas off but it still scared the sh*t out of me.


 



Guess they just don't make W/H's in Mexico like they used to...amigos...:laughing:


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## roving plumber (Apr 25, 2011)

Also had this happen (first day I started with my new employer, go figure) tried tightening the thermocoupler, and it was tight, started to tear into the old unit and maybe swap thermocoupler...but went to the new unit, loosened the thermocoupler pushed it up into the gas valve and held it up tight..burner plate fired up! But when I tried to tighten the nut up and let go it went out again! Ended up putting a small wad of aluminum foil above thermocoupler still working seems it just wasn't making good contact.???


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Good job I'll try to remember that. I found one that wouldn't stay lit no matter how long I held button down. Pulled assembly out and checked flame which seemed to be hitting the Tcple fine but only stayed on when I used torch to heat it up more. And it stayed lit. But would not handle on it's own without starting it off with torch.


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## razor jeff (Feb 23, 2011)

Go Bradford, I've had a couple of tanks leaking before they should but thats a couple out of thousands that get installed around here. And zero control issues. We put in some john woods and rheems a few years ago and I swear we've been back for failed gas valves or flame sensors on every one. I think we're through the Rheem problems now though! 
My supplier tells me that the flamable vapour sensor on the Rheem will come back into spec and can be reused a few weeks after exposure to flammable vapours, anyone know if this is true?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I am now a BW guy since I started this thread.


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## timplmbr (Mar 16, 2011)

bradford white have NEVER given me a problem in all the years i have installed them, ( knocking on wood)
even impressed with the newer icon gas/thermostat units,


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> Good job I'll try to remember that. I found one that wouldn't stay lit no matter how long I held button down. Pulled assembly out and checked flame which seemed to be hitting the Tcple fine but only stayed on when I used torch to heat it up more. And it stayed lit. But would not handle on it's own without starting it off with torch.


I'm wondering did this unit have a orange wire (hard plastic coating) leading to the sensor rod? When I was working in the HVAC field Rheem had H**L with these. I had to re-wire plenty with t-stat wire to bypass the plugs, sometimes had to remove the burners to access the rod ceramic wire nut t-stat wire there then to circuit board and ceramic wire nut there as close as possible. Spending 5 hours on a simple flame sensor trouble was BS. Even by employers standards till he ran into it then he called and asked how I got around it??


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

razor jeff said:


> My supplier tells me that the flamable vapour sensor on the Rheem will come back into spec and can be reused a few weeks after exposure to flammable vapours, anyone know if this is true?


I don't know how a broken glass vial that was filled with oil would do that...


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

The sensor is a little ceramic disc usually on the bottom of the chamber in the outside jacket...
If this fails I do not see anyone waiting a few weeks for it to "reset" and from what I have read its a one use only feature


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

shakeyglenn68 said:


> I'm wondering did this unit have a orange wire (hard plastic coating) leading to the sensor rod? When I was working in the HVAC field Rheem had H**L with these. I had to re-wire plenty with t-stat wire to bypass the plugs, sometimes had to remove the burners to access the rod ceramic wire nut t-stat wire there then to circuit board and ceramic wire nut there as close as possible. Spending 5 hours on a simple flame sensor trouble was BS. Even by employers standards till he ran into it then he called and asked how I got around it??


You know, truthfully I was so hacked with AO Smith I wasn't going to try to figure out why the darn thing wouldn't stay lit, really it didn't matter.
They had so much trouble getting ther act together on the last experiment failures, I was fed up with them and wasn't going to start off again with a WH that couldn't even get it together at the git go. I have since heard a slice of aluminum foil at the Tcple connection would solve the issue, well maybe on a used unit but darn if I'm carrying foil around to get brand new units going. I'm going with Bradford White now.


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm so use to trouble shooting BW HT I do it in my sleep. Wake up with that AH ha moments. On the HT moments opened up a wall last week to service a lowboy HT set under a kitchen counter to find a massive scare. HT was skinless plus inso was gone. Just tank and exposed wires/contact/stat. This wont fly. Went to a vacant unit to switch tanks opened wall find another.. Off I go on the search for a skinned tank. 17th apartment find one. Let owner know of the potential fire hazard he has. (I'm certain he doesn't give a hout till the state comes down on him, I wasnt going to leave an occupied unit with a fire hazard in it.


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## ]3ones (Jun 9, 2011)

If they got an existing boiler, i'll usually try and up sell an indirect. Always use BW, just a personally prefence been good to me and parts are always instock. I always try and stay away from selling a tankless mainly becuase 6 outta 10 customers complain about the hot water delay to the taps. I guess they take the term "instant hot water" a bit too literally.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

]3ones said:


> If they got an existing boiler, i'll usually try and up sell an indirect. Always use BW, just a personally prefence been good to me and parts are always instock. I always try and stay away from selling a tankless mainly becuase 6 outta 10 customers complain about the hot water delay to the taps. *I guess they take the term "instant hot water" a bit too literally*.


Yah they should change the name of those from instant hot water to endless hot water


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Yah they should change the name of those from instant hot water to endless hot water


They are starting to be called tankless gas down here.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Became a Brad-White guy about 5 years ago . ( THANK GOD ) have only had success and happy,happy feelings with the BW !!! 

Was an AOSmith guy for 25 years but just got SICK everytime i put one in and waited for the call backs . 
They are trying to "Woo " me back to AO ,,, but i'm not convinced yet that anything has gotten better ,,,


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

You're right. Thinking thier worse and 2 to 3 years is bout all you can get out of them assuming you can get it to stay lit to start with geeezzz.


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## pxt (Jun 28, 2011)

Bradford White....thumbs up!!


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