# Leak Detection



## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

Hey Guys, I am wondering what you guys do for leak detection, I just got a locator with my camera and I have the ability to get a seperate transmitter to trace any line I energize not just the sonde in the camera head. is there a way to detect leaks I can energize and trace the water line and I have heard of people using stethascopes to listen for leaks with a ground probe does this work Or do you have any tricks that work I am trying to come up with a way to not lose these calls until I get the actual leak detection equipment.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

It would be pretty tough to teach you over the internet. Get a navitrack a line inducer and a leak detector (I like fisher but there are several decent units out there). Give me a call when you've got the equipment and I lay it out for ya. Each call is a little bit different.



rickmccarthy said:


> Hey Guys, I am wondering what you guys do for leak detection, I just got a locator with my camera and I have the ability to get a seperate transmitter to trace any line I energize not just the sonde in the camera head. is there a way to detect leaks I can energize and trace the water line and I have heard of people using stethascopes to listen for leaks with a ground probe does this work Or do you have any tricks that work I am trying to come up with a way to not lose these calls until I get the actual leak detection equipment.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I heard someone mention the old fashioned way of leak detecting. Not asking for a step by step, but curious what the ole fashioned way entails.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

You could do it with a stethoscope, common sense and some patience. Roughly trace the lines out (common sense), find the 2 loudest manifolds and listen between them (stethoscope and patience). Like pro-tech said, it's pretty tough to give a lesson via internet but that's the very, very condensed version. I would plan on investing in a detector/line locator sooner rather than later though. I've used a Goldak for the last 10 years and it works very well for me.





Paul


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

The way I have always done it is to start with the listening device and listen at all of the stub outs. The leak will generally be between the two stub outs which have the loudest reading, although manifolds can throw you off. You then energize the pipe with a transmitter and trace the line you believe is leaking. Once you know where the line is you go back to your listening device and listen along the floor where the pipe is located.

I use the Ridgid Navitrack and transmitter for locating the pipe and a Metrotech HL 4000 for a listening device.

http://0070100.netsolhost.com/products/pdf/m4000.pdf

Mark


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

That sounds familiar, a stethescope would work for a bit. Our guys will listen to the manifolds, cut them open, and the hole is big enough to allow the water to drain out, cap off the feed and find which fixtures are no longer fed. 99% of the time we run a new line rather than break up the floor.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

yep



JK949 said:


> That sounds familiar, a stethescope would work for a bit. Our guys will listen to the manifolds, cut them open, and the hole is big enough to allow the water to drain out, cap off the feed and find which fixtures are no longer fed. 99% of the time we run a new line rather than break up the floor.


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks guys I guess my wording was a little off I plan on getting the transmitter this week or next to energize and trace out the line but what can I use for a listening device, a stethascope and a ground probe does that really work? I am thinking of outdoor water service. would there be a difference in listening devices for slab leaks


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes. Inside you need a flat geophone. Outside you usually use a geophone attached to a probe rod.



rickmccarthy said:


> Thanks guys I guess my wording was a little off I plan on getting the transmitter this week or next to energize and trace out the line but what can I use for a listening device, a stethascope and a ground probe does that really work? I am thinking of outdoor water service. *would there be a difference in listening devices for slab leaks*


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I'd say the microphones are the most important part of you leak locator kit. I have two mics, one is for the inside and one is more for municipal work outside. The smaller one is around $500 while the larger one is closer to $1,000 and that is in addition to the cost of the leak locator. 

The smaller one can have a probe installed for listening to the pipes or a flat plate for listening for the leak through the slab. The larger one is windproof and can find leaks up to 15' deep. It is important to understand what work you will be doing and do not over buy or under buy. Even with my first Goldak 777 I bought 25-years ago, Goldak told me their mic was garbage and had me pay an extra $100 for a Shure mic instead. Goldak owns a locating company as well and they were using the Shure mics so I drop the extra $100. The difference between the two mics was very noticeable.

Mark


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Heres a state of the art pipe locator and pipe tracer. Feast your eyes on this high tech equipment


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I'll have to take a picture of my Detectron leak detector. No idea how old it is but it's probably older than me. I'll have to get a much of Moen boxes together to photograph it on. 








Paul


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

rocksteady said:


> I'll have to take a picture of my Detectron leak detector. No idea how old it is but it's probably older than me. I'll have to get a much of Moen boxes together to photograph it on.
> Paul


 I bet its state of the art too like my lil jewel! I could loan you some empty delta box's...I'm a horder:laughing:


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Protech said:


> Yes. Inside you need a flat geophone. Outside you usually use a geophone attached to a probe rod.


Is that the one that looks like a large bell?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I have the TW-6 
Pollard Geophone


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Okay I took some quick photos of the microphones from my locator. There is a picture of the smaller microphone with a probe on one end and another picture of it with the slab flat and the handle on it.

Mark


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## Van (Feb 5, 2010)

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and have a a few questions regarding leak detection with the acoustic listening equipment. I have done a thread search and this seems like the best place to ask. 

I am looking at the Gen-Ear LE. It appears there was an older model that had a spectrum analyzer on it that visually showed the strength of the noise level at a target point. The new unit does not have this meter. How important is it to have some sort of meter on the device that gives a visual readout of the sound level?

How does one trace plastic pipes under a slab or in a yard? I have seen a plastic "pipe knocker" advertised that mechanically vibrates the pipe, but was very expensive. Are there other methods to find plastic pipes in slabs?

Thanks in advance.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Please post an intro in the intro section and I help you out.




Van said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am new to this forum and have a a few questions regarding leak detection with the acoustic listening equipment. I have done a thread search and this seems like the best place to ask.
> 
> ...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Protech said:


> Please post an intro in the intro section and I help you out.


Ken, you should be an expert tracing plastic. Share some tips


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## Van (Feb 5, 2010)

Protech said:


> Please post an intro in the intro section and I help you out.


Done.

Thanks for your assistance.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

O.K. here's my technical wonder. I don't know if it's more or less state-of-the-art than TM's Fisher, I'll let ya'll decide.




















No Moen boxes, sorry. 




Paul


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Van said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am new to this forum and have a a few questions regarding leak detection with the acoustic listening equipment. I have done a thread search and this seems like the best place to ask.
> 
> ...


A meter of some type is very important after you have listened to 20 or so spots. When I am listening I put an X on the spot and write down the reading.

Mark


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I usually trace out the runs using audio. You need to get some sound to resonate thru the lines. Vacuum breaker work well for this. You listen for where the sound is loudest and then do a zigzag pattern over the loudest areas to map out long runs. By knowing where the runs are at, you can figure the fittings at intersection points. Charge the lines with nitrogen at high pressure (make sure no one is around any exposed pipe if it's cpvc/pvc) to help isolate the leak once the system is mapped.



slickrick said:


> Ken, you should be an expert tracing plastic. Share some tips


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

How does the vacuum breaker come into play?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

you hook up a hose with a nozzle on the end at low flow. This causes the seal in the VB to vibrate like a read. It makes a very loud annoying hum.


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

Ok I think I am following you there Pro-Tech. If I get the Transmitter to energize the line then I need some kind of microphone (geophone) and a listening device. am I on track so far. I am at best an amateur leak detector. All of your help is greatly appreciated. If it is to much to post please pm me I would like to pick up this equipment in the next week or so and I just need something I can work with not state of the art several thousand dollars just something so I dont have to lose these calls and I can save for the top of the line stuff. Thanks so much


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You can buy used fisher audio equipment for 700-800 on ebay.


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

ok and with that I will still need the transmitter to energize line or......


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Not for plastic. If metal lines than you would do well with a ridgid line inducer and scout locator too.



rickmccarthy said:


> ok and with that I will still need the transmitter to energize line or......


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

for platic use the vacume breaker method you spoke of earlier?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

yes


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

There are techniques for large plastic systems to but you are just getting your feet wet. Try to start on metal systems first as they are much easier.


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks a million Pro-Tech Ill let you know what kind of equip I end up with


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

how about pollard geophones ever heard of em?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

rickmccarthy said:


> how about pollard geophones ever heard of em?


I have a pair. They work fine, but they are definitely manual. Follow Ken & Mark's advice, if you can find a used Fisher with a meter. I am on the lookout too.


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