# Need help on picking right machine



## CodePlumber (Aug 13, 2011)

I have not done much drain cleaning but would like to have ability to clean residential sewers. I would say 90% of our sewers are 100 feet or less. Most are either 3 or 4 inch. I would want a machine that can handle roots. There are very few basements here. Almost all work would occur outside at the CO. I would have to be able to handle machine by myself as most of the time I work alone.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

For the type of work you decribed a Spartan 300 with .55 double wound cable will work great.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Ridgid K-1500 for mains

Ridgid K-3800 with different cables for different drain lines.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

A Ridgid K-7500 with 11/16" cable would be my tool of choice for mains...

K-3800 for the smaller drains....


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Oh I forgot to mention you can change the drums on the Spartan 300 to run 1/2" cable and another drum with 13/32" cable so its an all round machine.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

SewerRatz wins the 2nd round AND the bonus round! :thumbsup:


Next stop, Spartan 1065 or the infamous 2001.


*All aboard! *


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

All Purpose Machine eh... :whistling2::laughing:

More like Jack of All Master of None.... :laughing:

What you have is a machine that gives you a choice of 13/32" which is a slightly beefed up 3/8" cable or, 5/8" which is a tad smaller than the 11/16" cable....

Of course you'll be lugging in twice the weight when you go for the smaller drains vs. the K-3800, and what about those tub drains where you want 1/4" cable to push through the trap.... :whistling2:

I guess you can mess around and carry some other machines to fill in the gaps in coverage....:laughing:

I'd like to see the 5/8" get into some heavy roots.... :laughing:
From the pics Eddie posted on DCF it looks like Alabama has a good long growing season.... :whistling2:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Redwood said:


> All Purpose Machine eh... :whistling2::laughing:
> 
> More like Jack of All Master of None.... :laughing:
> 
> ...


 I have guys thats all they use is a Spartan 300 in real heavy roots. One guy is using 5/8" cable the other using the .55 magnuim doubole wound cable. As for 13/32, if you do not like it then go to 3/8" Nothing says you have to use spartan cable in the machine. The guy with the .55 magnum cable has a drum with 1/2" for rodding 2" sinklines that go into catch basins, and runs the 13/32 machine for the 1 1/2 lines and has a third drum loaded with a limber 3/8" cable for doing lav and tub drains.

Now I would not run the machine mainly due to the fact most my lines are 6" so I use a 1065 . Instead of a cable machine he can do like some guys I know that jet all sewer lines no matter what is the blockage.


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## KCJAKE (Jun 17, 2011)

For the heaviest of roots, minimal basements, and outside cleanouts - I would recommend the Spartan 1065 or 2001 machines, the 300 is good one too. If you have any questions, I'm a rep for Spartan.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> I have guys thats all they use is a Spartan 300 in real heavy roots. One guy is using 5/8" cable the other using the .55 magnuim doubole wound cable. As for 13/32, if you do not like it then go to 3/8" Nothing says you have to use spartan cable in the machine. The guy with the .55 magnum cable has a drum with 1/2" for rodding 2" sinklines that go into catch basins, and runs the 13/32 machine for the 1 1/2 lines and has a third drum loaded with a limber 3/8" cable for doing lav and tub drains.
> 
> Now I would not run the machine mainly due to the fact most my lines are 6" so I use a 1065 . Instead of a cable machine he can do like some guys I know that jet all sewer lines no matter what is the blockage.


Now if you had said a Spartan 1065 or, 2001 for the mains and a Spartan 100 for the smaller interior lines I would have said good choices....

Your claim of the 300 as the all in one machine is kinda like me saying a K-400 is the all in one machine when the reality is that it is too big and too small at the same time...

Actually I'd revise what I said about the Ridgid K-7500 and say go with 3/4" cables instead of the 11/16", the only reason I run 11/16" is we have a lot of house traps around here still so I need the 11/16" to be able to push it through the house traps...

When it comes to drain cleaning size matters! :laughing:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Thing is Redwood he said the line size he is clearing is 3" to 4" so the Spartan 300 will fit his bill perfectly with out having a bulker and heaver machine to lug around.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Now if you had said a Spartan 1065 or, 2001 for the mains and a Spartan 100 for the smaller interior lines I would have said good choices....
> 
> Your claim of the 300 as the all in one machine is kinda like me saying a K-400 is the all in one machine when the reality is that it is too big and too small at the same time...
> 
> ...




My 300 with .55 takes care of 95% of my 4" to 6" mains no problems. I recently bought a Model C for the other 5%.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

I forgot to say that when I was greener than a greenhorn and was asking many questions on a main line machine I took Ron's advise on the 300.

I couldn't be happier 

ThanX again Ron !!!


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> Oh I forgot to mention you can change the drums on the Spartan 300 to run 1/2" cable and another drum with 13/32" cable so its an all round machine.



Yes you can change drums but I prefer to roll with a 300 with .55 & a 100 with 13/32"


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

For main lines we use a k-1500 with 7/8" cable. If we know going in that it's a root problem then we might throw in the 1 1/4" cable. Its a bit of overkill, but it works nicely. I have very little experience with full size drum machines. Nothing against them, just using what's provided to me.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I use a Gorlitz 68 HD, great machines but they take up tons of room. I have been thinking about trying one of the above since I rarely do drains anymore.


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## CodePlumber (Aug 13, 2011)

I appreciate everyone's opinion, that is why I joined the forum. Roots are a pretty big problem here. I feel that if I am going to invest a couple grand in a machine, I want to do my homework.


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## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

KCJAKE said:


> For the heaviest of roots, minimal basements, and outside cleanouts - I would recommend the Spartan 1065 or 2001 machines, the 300 is good one too. If you have any questions, I'm a rep for Spartan.


The 300 is a lot lighter and easier to lug around, two thumb screws and you can take off the drum and powerfeed and change drums. The 300 can use the drum from the 100 machine with an adapter, allowing you to have one machine with several cable sizes, making it a very useful tool for smaller main lines and branch lines. 

Of course, for the real big stuff the 1065 is the way to go, but you'll need other machines to use as well, that thing is huge


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Electric Eel Model C or K1500 for the mains

Spartan 300 for your go to machines mains as well as some secondary lines

Electric Eel Model N/ Ridgid 3800/ Spartan 100 for inside the house

Super-Vee if you can afford it

Closet Augur


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

K-60 gets my vote. you can use either 5/8 or 7/8 cable. Inside, outside, or on the roof. lighter than a drum machine. I have never used a drum machine, we end up on the roof alot here. Have used the k-1500 in the past, it's heavy, and bulky to carry around in the truck. Never had a problem with not clearing roots from line. Mine is 13 years old always on the truck and has needed 2 clutches in the past. very reliable. I think you can get one for about $1300.

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/K60-Drain-Machine


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Thing is Redwood he said the line size he is clearing is 3" to 4" so the Spartan 300 will fit his bill perfectly with out having a bulker and heaver machine to lug around.


Right, and we all know that if you get into drain cleaning you are not going to specialize in cleaning mains alone.... :whistling2:

Even with the best possible over the phone diagnosis you will be rolling to calls that involve clogged toilets, and clogged bathtubs & showers...

So there is additional equipment that should be planned such as a small line machine and a closet auger or, he will rolling to calls then walking away as ill equipped.

Your 13/32" and even 3/8" cable isn't going to be fun to attempt to push through a bathtub trap so the "All In One Solution" is Too Big yet Too Small at the same time....


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

Redwood said:


> So there is additional equipment that should be planned such as a small line machine and a closet auger or, he will rolling to calls then walking away as ill equipped.
> 
> Your 13/32" and even 3/8" cable isn't going to be fun to attempt to push through a bathtub trap so the "All In One Solution" is Too Big yet Too Small at the same time....


 
I assumed everyone has a closet auger. I cut the head off one and use it on tubs, showers and sometimes a lav arm. BTW K-60 works fine on a tub overflow too.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

It seems there is a common theme to the "what machine" threads that pop up. People without a lot of drain cleaning experience trying to break into that field are looking for the "silver bullet" machine. Well folks, there ain't one.

No single machine is the end all of drain cleaning. There are too many variables.

The catch all sectional drain cleaning setup would be (and is) as follows for me:
K-60
150' 7/8" cable
75' 5/8" cable

K-1500SP
210' 1-1/4" C14 cable (don't waste money on the C11 cable)

If you want to do building sewers only, then start with the 1500. If you want to start inside, start with the 60.


I have no opinion on basket machines since I'm not experienced with them but I doubt there is one magic machine that does it all there either.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

The 300 is the closest you can get to a do it all machine, but it requires multiple drums with multiple cable sizes. And you will have the jobs where it will be too small or too big. You would be better off getting getting the right machines for the right job imo


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

K1500 with 1 1/4" cable outside.

K60 for 2" - 3" - 4" inside

K50 with a drum or 2, and the 5/8" for everything else.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Eel Model C for nasty roots and harder blockages in 4" - 6" lines. I also have the option of running the 1.25" cable from a Dewalt DW124 drill.

Spartan 300 for most 4" and 6" lines.

Spartan 100 with 75' of 13/32" for harder/longer 1 1/2" - 2" secondary lines

4 Ridgid K-39AF/K-45AF pistol rodders each with different 1/4" & 5/16" cable setups do anything from overheads, tubs, sinks, etc....

RoPump, Water Ram, toilet auger & plunger.



That's how I roll


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

I use the Spartan 300 for mains 3" to 4". I use my Spartan 100 for kitchen sinks and a General supervee for either kitchen, basin or tub drains.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> K1500 with 1 1/4" cable outside.
> 
> K60 for 2" - 3" - 4" inside
> 
> K50 with a drum or 2, and the 5/8" for everything else.


 




Looks like you're partial to Ridgid...:yes:

I have a little old K-50 that I love. It's a great little machine which takes care of everything inside the house and I even use it on 4" main-lines outside.  The K-50 is a terrific machine. I have of course the 5/8" cable and the little drum attachment with 5/16" cable, (at least I think the smaller cable is 5/16"; either that or it's 1/4".)


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## KCJAKE (Jun 17, 2011)

If you want light-weight, I would suggest the Spartan 81 machine....lol


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

KCJAKE said:


> If you want light-weight, I would suggest the Spartan 81 machine....lol


 

Hey accidentally ship me a new air switch assembly with tubing. I think my employee cut the tubing somewhere and I'm losing air when operating. 

My 81 is really rough looking and somewhere I bought new rubbers for the legs, can't find them, Dammit! :furious:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> Looks like you're partial to Ridgid...:yes:
> 
> I have a little old K-50 that I love. It's a great little machine which takes care of everything inside the house and I even use it on 4" main-lines outside. The K-50 is a terrific machine. I have of course the 5/8" cable and the little drum attachment with 5/16" cable, (at least I think the smaller cable is 5/16"; either that or it's 1/4".)


We had a 1500 at my old shop, so it was a no brainer when I started up. 

One day, I was humping it down a ships ladder of a staircase into a basement. After I pulled the wc, and remove paper towels from a drain, I figured I need summin a tad smaller, so I got the 60. 

My old shop had the K39 for everything the 1500 could not do, and I hated that thing. So, I went with the 50. I will not own a drill with a drum. :no:


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## Bonvi (Aug 19, 2011)

I recently purchased on EBay an old stored away "Snakentainer", electric drain cleaner.The cable is caked with grease and debris. What is the best way to clean this cable?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Bonvi said:


> I recently purchased on EBay an old stored away "Snakentainer", electric drain cleaner.The cable is caked with grease and debris. What is the best way to clean this cable?


The first step is an Intoduction Post after that it all seems to work out....

Read first... http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/

Then put yours here... http://www.plumbingzone.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=3

But yours might not once they see the DIYer Profile....


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Redwood said:


> But yours might not once they see the DIYer Profile....


Might not? Did you say *MIGHT* not?

More like DEFINITELY not:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Bill said:


> Might not? Did you say *MIGHT* not?
> 
> More like DEFINITELY not:laughing:


I was just trying to build a slim chance of hope for the guy rather than let him down hard all at once.... :laughing:

Actually I had written the intro thing then looked at his profile and didn't feel like wasting time deleting it.... :laughing:


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## willywaterboss (Sep 16, 2011)

*route 66*

Hello Guys
I am new to drain cleaning too. I bought the route 66 from General. It is a sectional and works great on the 2 drains I have done so far. It comes with a small drum attach for small things. I have the marco drill auger too. It works well. I have never used a drum. I have heard some scary stories.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

willywaterboss said:


> I have never used a drum. I have heard some scary stories.


Like what? 
They're heavy if you try to carry them instead of using the wheels?:laughing:


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## incarnatopnh (Feb 1, 2011)

If you are concerned about drum machines, listen to the guys on this forum. I did and I ended up buying a drum machine that I'm more than happy with. The drums have a lot of up sides over the sectionals. I would probably not have bought the machine I did had it not been for the knowledge and wisdom of some of the guys on here.


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## willywaterboss (Sep 16, 2011)

Good one Redwood. I just heard of people wrapping there hands or snapping the cable because of not paying attention. Some of the people in my area where leaning to the sectional. I have never used the drum. I guess as I move on in this business I will find out the differences and I will continue to read these posts they are very informative. Thank you guys. Do some of you have both machines? Could you give an example where you pull a drum over a sectional? or vise versa. That would be interesting to a newbe like me. Thanks again


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## QuadraPlex Nick (Oct 13, 2011)

Personally I have heard some stories about people getting wrapped up in cable from drum machines, but it’s usually due to guys using feeders and not paying attention to what they are doing. If you actually have your hands on the cable as you snake out a drain, you can feel the tension building up from being caught on something in the drain and you know to let off the foot control. Plus if you have a machine that is engineered correctly it should contain the cable even if it gets out of control. About the cable breaking though, that’s almost always due to acid or other caustic substances being poured down the drain and being left on the cable after you’re done with the job. It makes the wire brittle and allows the cable to break easily. You should always try to neutralize the acid that is down the drain by flushing it with lots of water and baking soda.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

All the guys I seen wrapped up in cable, never posted an intro.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

willywaterboss said:


> Hello Guys
> I am new to drain cleaning too. I bought the route 66 from General. It is a sectional and works great on the 2 drains I have done so far. It comes with a small drum attach for small things. I have the marco drill auger too. It works well. *I have never used a drum*. I have heard some scary stories.


Yes it is very hard to clear drains with bongo drums. From what I understand plumbers in the former soviet union used small versions of the snare drum, but I'm sure the were drunk on vodka when they did it.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

willywaterboss said:


> I just heard of people wrapping there hands or snapping the cable because of not paying attention.


That and having the machine too far from the cleanout...
Having a lot of cable out is not all that easy to control with your hands...

But there are ways around it when you can't get close...

I've run a piece of pipe to a cleanout that I couldn't get the machine within 15' of and snaked it sitting on my bucket at the entrance to the crawl space....:laughing:

I suppose if I had a k-60 i could have dragged it in there then crawled around, working in there adding sections and stuff...


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> It seems there is a common theme to the "what machine" threads that pop up. People without a lot of drain cleaning experience trying to break into that field are looking for the "silver bullet" machine. Well folks, there ain't one.
> 
> No single machine is the end all of drain cleaning. There are too many variables.
> 
> ...


Are you able to clean sink drains, trap arms, and tub drains with the K-60?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I don't run the K60, but do use the K50 from time to time(uses same 5/8 cable) and 5/8" ridgid sectional cable has no problems going through 1.5"-3" pipes. On 1.25" pipes I'd use the a-17 drum with 5/16" cable. I've never seen it done, but I've heard you can use the drums on the K60 too. Just have to be careful on the kink the cable as it spins at 600 rpms.


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## incarnatopnh (Feb 1, 2011)

Drums! K750 with 3/4" ic cable for mainlines. K400 with 3/8" cable for 1 1/2" to 2" lines. A lot of people give the K400 a bad name but if you know how to use it it can be a great little machine for the money. Just bought a K40 sink machine used off ebay. Wanted something smaller for the occasional stubborn tub drain. I don't like sectionals. I take everything I need in with one trip, and less mess to worry about after.


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## jtrooter1 (Nov 30, 2011)

The truth be known to all you guys who are just getting started, there is not one machine that will do it all but i can say a sectional is not the machine i would prefer starting out. The biggest drain service in the world aka RR uses kenway because theyre proven in the field and a cost effective setup. 1/4x50ft in a small drum for tubs and lavs, 3/8x90ft in a regular drum for kitchens, laundry and fd's. the machine is light weight and has plenty of power and easy to manuever in tight spots and roof vents. The mainmachine i would recommend is a spartan 2001 11/16x125ft and i carry an extra 100ft on the truck all the time. Have yet to find a machine to outdo the 2001.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Gorlitz Go50 you can put 3/8 and 1/2 cable on it.


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