# This is what happens to CPVC...



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

This pipe was removed from a tankless water heater on the outlet side. The flow switch became stuck and the heat exchanger continuously ran and as you can see the pipe basically melted from the super heated water. This is precisely the reason the hot and cold lines must be metal tubing for a minimum of 18" to and from the unit. This is not to suggest that in this case the CPVC still wouldn't have become destroyed with 18" of metal pipe but chances are that it would have not been as bad.

I have seen many sloppy installs (typically by H.O.s or handy men) where they just run PEX or CPVC all the way to the heater without any service valves.


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

This is a perfect reason to install a T&P rather than just a pressure relief valve.


----------



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

That is a very good point.


----------



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

*I agree to all of the above ! :thumbsup:*


----------



## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

What brand heater was it?


----------



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> What brand heater was it?


I am not sure. I will try to find out.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

It's interesting how the fittings didn't deform, only the pipe. I'm sure it's due to the thicker wall of the fittings. Great pictures.


----------



## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

I am also surprised that those all plastic female adaptors didn't let go.


----------



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> It's interesting how the fittings didn't deform, only the pipe. I'm sure it's due to the thicker wall of the fittings. Great pictures.


I thought the same thing. Thank you.


----------



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

phishfood said:


> I am also surprised that those all plastic female adaptors didn't let go.


I thought the same thing as far as the adapters. I was also shocked that they didn't even use brass adapters. A crappy job all the way around. And consequently, worst case scenario happened. I just wish I could have been there to see all of it happen.


----------



## Toothless (Apr 23, 2013)

*Different types*



Tommy plumber said:


> It's interesting how the fittings didn't deform, only the pipe. I'm sure it's due to the thicker wall of the fittings. Great pictures.


I don't believe it's the thickness. You can put pipe in a vice and squeeze it but fittings will crack/shatter under pressure. I think the pipe is extruded and the fittings are cast and each uses a slightly different plastics formulation for hardness/flexibility. Just an observation and yes I could be wrong. 

Future experiment:Take cpvc fittings and short piece of pipe and put both in 450 degree oven and see what happens...

to OP: thanks, a picture IS worth a thousand words!


----------



## dplumb (Jan 6, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> It's interesting how the fittings didn't deform, only the pipe. I'm sure it's due to the thicker wall of the fittings. Great pictures.


I had a similar problem with a power vent heater that superheated the water and some clown piped the CPVC right to the heater instead of the 24" of copper required here. The elbow at the top blew right through the bend. Wish I still had the pics.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

Tsk tsk.. even a pre-apprentice like myself knows plastic pipe/tubing is a horrible idea. Not saying it can't work just leaves more room for error.


----------



## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

dplumb said:


> I had a similar problem with a power vent heater that superheated the water and some clown piped the CPVC right to the heater instead of the 24" of copper required here. The elbow at the top blew right through the bend. Wish I still had the pics.


Did it not have a T&P? :blink:


----------



## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

PlumbStax said:


> Tsk tsk.. even a pre-apprentice like myself knows plastic pipe/tubing is a horrible idea. Not saying it can't work just leaves more room for error.


Not necessarily so.

While I like copper, like installing it, etc, there are times where it is definitely the wrong choice, even worse then the much maligned polybutylene.

Case in point, the house I repiped a short while ago. It was built in the late 80's, piped with copper. I didn't see evidence of excessive corrosive flux, but I could see that several repairs had been made to it. It was repiped in the early to mid 90's with polybutylene, and didn't appear to have developed any leaks yet. In fact, the only reason I was repiping it was for the savings on homeowner's insurance that the owner would realize for having it done. 

So, the copper lasted 10 years, on the outside. It was repiped with plastic, and lasted 15 to 20 years, no telling how much longer it would have lasted.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

phishfood said:


> Not necessarily so.
> 
> While I like copper, like installing it, etc, there are times where it is definitely the wrong choice, even worse then the much maligned polybutylene.
> 
> ...


What type of plastic? Pex? Cpvc? If I remember right pex cant withstand the 140 degrees needed but cpvp can? Correct me if I'm wrong. Was the copper you replaced for cold water aswell or just hot?


----------



## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

I didn't replace the copper, I replaced the polybutylene that had replaced the copper. The copper was replaced because it was obviously failing and leaking, in multiple locations. I replaced the polybutylene not because it was failing (it wasn't), but because the homeowner will be saving ~$1000 a year on their homeowner's insurance. 

The point I was trying to make is that the copper that was originally installed lasted 10 years or less, and the polybutylene that replaced it had lasted at least 15 years, with no signs of problems yet.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

phishfood said:


> I didn't replace the copper, I replaced the polybutylene that had replaced the copper. The copper was replaced because it was obviously failing and leaking, in multiple locations. I replaced the polybutylene not because it was failing (it wasn't), but because the homeowner will be saving ~$1000 a year on their homeowner's insurance.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is that the copper that was originally installed lasted 10 years or less, and the polybutylene that replaced it had lasted at least 15 years, with no signs of problems yet.


I see, I'll keep that in mind when using both.


----------



## dplumb (Jan 6, 2013)

Gettinit said:


> Did it not have a T&P? :blink:


Did have a T&P. It was in a large apartment complex. They pipe the T&P into the water heater pans drain and that goes out the side of the building. I guess the thought process is that when the maintenance people see water coming out of the side of the building they know it is one of the units that the tank is no good or there is a problem (there are usually 4 floors on this particular site). Well this one was behind some shrubbery so no one noticed when it started as a small drip most likely.


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

dplumb said:


> Did have a T&P. It was in a large apartment complex. They pipe the T&P into the water heater pans drain and that goes out the side of the building. I guess the thought process is that when the maintenance people see water coming out of the side of the building they know it is one of the units that the tank is no good or there is a problem (there are usually 4 floors on this particular site). Well this one was behind some shrubbery so no one noticed when it started as a small drip most likely.


*In this situation a T&P would not do much good? Does not a T&P relieve pressure -- not shut off a run away heater. There should be a limit switch to gaurd against excessive temps and a secondary in case that fails Maybe we should go back to a Kitson Valve whereas the fuel would be shut off on, over temp. Like an electric heater has an ECO manual reset. *


----------



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

*A T & P valve is set to open at 210% degrees = temperature, 150 psi = pressure  *


----------



## gardon (Apr 24, 2013)

I will only use a metal mip to cpvc adapter, its the only way to do it nowadays, since they have arrived. (If you are going that route, and wel all know, at the price of copper, cpvc (hopefully flowguard) or pex is the new norm, which we have to deal with to compete!


----------



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

I finally found out the brand of Tankless and not surprisingly it was a Bosch. In fact the plumber who pulled that CPVC had another Bosch that did the same. Our company won't even service that brand anymore. Too many issues. It is odd because Bosch makes great power tools. 

They are the only Tankless with a standing pilot and when you have to replace the gas control valve they give you a blast shield to save you from the potential explosion. I have yet to meet a plumber who likes Bosch Tankless.


----------



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> What brand heater was it?


Bosch.


----------



## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

Removed a Bosch about three months ago that was a pos and installed a tempra after a nice electrical upgrade that is but get this it was for a home warranty company (the only one we will work for) they agreed to our price and electricians price in about ten minutes and they pay by direct deposit the same day they get our fax with the customers signature.


----------



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

wyplumber said:


> Removed a Bosch about three months ago that was a pos and installed a tempra after a nice electrical upgrade that is but get this it was for a home warranty company (the only one we will work for) they agreed to our price and electricians price in about ten minutes and they pay by direct deposit the same day they get our fax with the customers signature.


Wow. That is amazing as far as home warranty companies go.


----------



## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Wow. That is amazing as far as home warranty companies go.


Yeah we found that out the hard way with warranty companies trying to haggle over $125 in repairs but that is why we will only work for this certain company.


----------



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

wyplumber said:


> Yeah we found that out the hard way with warranty companies trying to haggle over $125 in repairs but that is why we will only work for this certain company.


What company? I am starting my own company and will probably use one to get started. I have heard good things about Old Republic.


----------



## perfectplumber (Apr 22, 2013)

Hello masters in the house..which is the best to easily pipe in a house?..coper or pp_R pipes??
here is nigeria west africa,we're used to the copper pipes after it replace the old time galvanized pipe...and here we dont get the best of copper pipes,cos we now have local manufacturer...plss..can someone introduce PEX and other alternative pipe for running hot water to our market??


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

perfectplumber said:


> Hello masters in the house..which is the best to easily pipe in a house?..coper or pp_R pipes??
> here is nigeria west africa,we're used to the copper pipes after it replace the old time galvanized pipe...and here we dont get the best of copper pipes,cos we now have local manufacturer...plss..can someone introduce PEX and other alternative pipe for running hot water to our market??


PEX is easier and faster than copper in some ways but it all boils down to the properties of your water and what's available. PEX is no good if you can't get it in your area.


----------

