# best water heaters?



## Nealfromjpt (Oct 10, 2012)

over 25 years i have installed hundreds of waterheaters as you can well imagine. from Ao smith to rheem and several brands in between . my employer wants to go to Bradford white (a slick talking salesman talked him into it) what are your thoughts on the Bradford residential units?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Bradford White is what I install...

I'll consider Rheem/Ruud/Richmond to be second best and the AO Smith Brands to be dead last...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I'll stick with Richmond... can get it til ten pm around here and no hassel warranty return..


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

Bradford is a good heater


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## Flyguy199 (Sep 20, 2011)

Bradford is my first choice.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Bradford white here. GSW belongs in the dumpster.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Dpeckplb said:


> Bradford white here. GSW belongs in the dumpster.


GSW is an AO Smith brand...


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

i only install bradford


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

They have cost our company around 13,000 in gas valves and people wanting ones we installed removed. We were also promised two of there tankless as a way of "we are sorry" by their sales rep, who visited our shop. All we got was two crappy 40 gallon power vents and a bar stool. The comped water heaters were so crappy looking I refused to install them. We have had good luck with Bradford's. Only took one out but it's gas valve was submerged in water for 12 hours.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> I'll stick with Richmond... can get it til ten pm around here and no hassel warranty return..


Same assembly line as AO Smith, just different paint color.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Dpeckplb said:


> They have cost our company around 13,000 in gas valves and people wanting ones we installed removed. We were also promised two of there tankless as a way of "we are sorry" by their sales rep, who visited our shop. All we got was two crappy 40 gallon power vents and a bar stool. The comped water heaters were so crappy looking I refused to install them. We have had good luck with Bradford's. Only took one out but it's gas valve was submerged in water for 12 hours.


 Who cost your company all this money etc ????


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## Plumberdood1 (Apr 23, 2014)

Mainly Bradford for us also.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Cal said:


> Who cost your company all this money etc ????


GSW, for not standing behind their product. They said it was the maker of the valve, the valve manufacturer said it was GSW's fault. We had to eat the cost of a new valve and labour to diagnose and repair the unit, we also had ones that messed up more than once and the customers made us take them back or else they would start spreading bad word about our company which would put us possibly out of business in a small town.


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## Nealfromjpt (Oct 10, 2012)

thank you for all of the replies  i havent used these before so it is nice to know you all like them


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

dhal22 said:


> Same assembly line as AO Smith, just different paint color.


Nope,nope...no way... Richmond is the same as Rheem..


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> I'll stick with Richmond... can get it til ten pm around here and no hassel warranty return..





dhal22 said:


> Same assembly line as AO Smith, just different paint color.


dhal22, You might be thinking about Reliance Water Heaters, they are an AO Smith Brand, along with American, State, US Craftmaster, Lochinvar, John Wood, & GSW...

Rheem, Ruud, & Richmond are all Paloma Industries brands...


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

So many brands come off the assembly line I lost track of which brand comes from from the ao Smith plant, having taken a tour there. The point being I see plumbers trashing one brand and loving another but they're the same heater.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

dhal22 said:


> So many brands come off the assembly line I lost track of which brand comes from from the ao Smith plant, having taken a tour there. The point being I see plumbers trashing one brand and loving another but they're the same heater.


I hate all AO Smith brands equally their FVIR design drawing air from under the unit is guaranteed to draw more dirt into the tiny flame arrestor than any of the other designs. In addition they also had a little problem with that thermal fuse built into the left hand thread thermocouple with you have to order it from the factory availability that American Water Heaters (Whirlpoo) had a class action suit over and came out with an "Enhanced Burner Kit as a solution separating the thermal fuse and the thermocouple.... Of course they are the Big Blue Box Store brand as well....

Rheem/Ruud/Richmond the Paloma brands have a better FVIR design that draws air from the side of the unit so they are less likely to clog their tiny flame arrestor with dirt & lint but if it does or if there is an FVIR event an oil filled glass vial will break and the unit will shut down until it is replaced. Early on these were not available and we were told replace the water heater. Later this was reversed and they could be ordered, many plumbers also stripped them out of old units. The Paloma brands are the only major brand made today which has a replaceable part rather than a reset button for resetting after clogging the flame arrestor or, and FVIR event. I rate them second best as they draw the combustion air from the side but have the glass vial. Paloma also made the GE Water Heaters and those along with Rheem are the Big Orange Box Store brands....

Bradford White's FVIR design draws combustion air from the side, has a resettable button for a clogged flame arrestor or, FVIR event, and has the largest surface area of all of the flame arrestors, making it the least likely to clog with dirt & lint of all of the major brands and is not sold in big box stores with the company policy of "Sold Only To Plumbers" which is often enforced at the local supply houses. It is the only brand where I have ever been asked to show my plumbing license in order to purchase a water heater.:thumbup:

Bradford White is my #1 choice for those reasons...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

What he said. ^^^


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Our AO rep told me the other day ,,, AO & BW are the only two manufacturers left . Everything comes from their plants.


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

Cal said:


> Our AO rep told me the other day ,,, AO & BW are the only two manufacturers left . Everything comes from their plants.


I've been told them same thing, by ao and Bradford reps. As far as residential units go.


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## Nealfromjpt (Oct 10, 2012)

then are rheem/ruud/richmond a bw product?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Cal said:


> Our AO rep told me the other day ,,, AO & BW are the only two manufacturers left . Everything comes from their plants.


Nope... He's got 2 manufacturers building better stuff than him...:laughing:

Unless you want to talk about Heat Transfer Products....


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

Most likely rheem is just buying the tanks from Bradford. Lochinvar used to do the same thing until a.o. Smith purchased part of them.


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## Flyin Brian (Aug 22, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> Same assembly line as AO Smith, just different paint color.


i thought richmond was made by rheem, entirley different plant than a.o. smith unless things changed


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Flyin Brian said:


> i thought richmond was made by rheem, entirley different plant than a.o. smith unless things changed


So much for reading the thread... :laughing:


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## Flyin Brian (Aug 22, 2009)

Cal said:


> Our AO rep told me the other day ,,, AO & BW are the only two manufacturers left . Everything comes from their plants.



Rheem no longer has a plant???


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## Flyin Brian (Aug 22, 2009)

Redwood said:


> So much for reading the thread... :laughing:



i posted before reading the whole thread, correct!:thumbsup:


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

From Wikipedia
A.O. Smith operates under the following brand names: A.O. Smith United States, Canada, China, Europe, and India, State Water Heaters, American Water Heaters, Reliance Water Heaters, GSW, Lochinvar, Lochinvar U.K., Takagi, and A.O. Smith China and Turkey.[11]

Rheem still has a water heater plant in Alabama.

Edit
What it seems like now is unless it's a boiler or a specialty product. All residential heaters are coming from three or four manufacturers.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Flyin Brian said:


> Rheem no longer has a plant???


Nooo They still have a plant..
It's just somewhere else....:laughing:


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

This thread is making me happy that I don't deal with residential heaters. 

We'll unless it's side work. 

Please don't shoot I was joking.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Honest to God ,, with the 2015 changes coming , thinking I might offer Eternal Tankless or JUST STOP DOING HEATERS ! 

The size changes alone are going to cause major problems with the spaces heaters are in already .


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Nooo They still have a plant..
> It's just somewhere else....:laughing:


 

Rheem has a plant in Alabama and one in mexico across the border... Its been this way since nafta back in 1996. They have a R+d lab in indianapolis 

I have found through trial and error that The Rheem has a longer life span and a thicker glass liner inside them than Bradford has.....and their FVIR system has worked very well for us....

Bradford has a better FVIR air intake but their Icon thermostat is more troublesome that the old fashioned thermostats that come on the Rheems....
(you need a special pair of channel locks to get them to fire some times)

In my region we are changeing out Bradfords left and right leaking usually well under 6 years old.. 

Redwood .Note...for the record... in my experience....
If there is *no water softener* and they are hooked up to direct hard city water, Bradfords seem to last more into the 6-10 year range ...

BUT....*If there is a Water Softener* in the line Bradfords can fail often in under 4 years ..... Thermal expansioin tanks dont help either way..Soft water seems to eat the Bradfords alive....




We probably change out 2+ bradfords a week under warranty all over the city..all with water softeners.
 I have had one rheem heater of mine go bad under warranty this summer...Rheems are a tougher heater all around.....
.

Redwood...also note for the record...
Actually, this summer we had a brand new Rheem 40 gal gas burn up on us and shut down because of fans drying out the house due to flooding.....and it must have caused a back draft....had a fan blowing right into the area where the heater was located....
We threw in a bradford and it seemed to handle the fans better

now let the cross-examination begin.

release the hounds:laughing:.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Would love to install rheem or Rudd as well as AO but can't get them around here other then at the evil Home Depot and I can't believe the way they cheapen EVERYTHING to sell there that the heaters will be any different ! . ?


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## Nealfromjpt (Oct 10, 2012)

i have to admit i have never heard of soft water making a difference in the life of a water heater, but you can bet i will keep that in mind now


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