# unlicensed plumber



## American4ever (Jul 28, 2010)

There is a business that has been operating for about 20 years without a employee or a plumbing license. It is a one man operation that gets a trainee plumbers card off and on to get LNI to back off him. This business owner has gotten a couple of licensed plumber to cover for him when LNI questioned anything. How do you shut down this type of operation??? How do you get these licensed plumbers to stop assisting this guy in operating illegally????
I know that licensed plumber jump a lot of hoops to becomes plumbers to have some joker without any employee or certifications to take work from the plumber who tested, took low wages to get the hours and training to become certified licensed plumbers?
Just wondering do Plumbers join together to get rid of these guys or cover up because they think he is nice?
I know a lot of questions. Please give some directions.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Couple of things
Post an intro, we like to know who we are talking to.

Second, as a licensed plumber in you State, you would be most familiar with the rules in your own State, I would think.
Here in Indiana, we turn them into the State Attorney General, who then ignores the problem.


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## American4ever (Jul 28, 2010)

*Washington State*

I turned him into LNI, wrote the Governer and Attorney General. I got in return harassed. This business owner has been operating for about 20 years. The plumbing community must know that he has never been a certified licensed plumber and turns a blind eye to him. He did get a single $250 fine. That is nothing for operating for 20 yrs.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

If you can't beat 'em join 'em! Just give your license back to state and go back to work!! :laughing: Just kidding of course. We've been banging our collective heads against the wall for a long time trying to figure this out.:wallbash: There is little to no enforcement. It's illegal to advertise as a plumbing contractor ( in FL at least ) w/o having said license. Yet I see advertissments on Craigs List all the time from guys w/o licenses. If I impersonate a police officer or an MD, then you'll see how fast the authorities throw me in jail.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

You are wasting your time and energy. Plumbers boards only have jurisdiction over licensed plumbers. The only way to stop this guy is to have the local inspector follow him around and I doubt like hell that's going to happen. The fact of the matter is that the general public has forgotten the value of licensed plumbers. They have forgotten how we have all but eliminated a host of nasty diseases and illnesses that used to kill people by the thousands. Now they see us as over priced tradesmen looking to get the big bucks. When all this nonsense finally reaches its peak and folks start dying because of filthy and unsafe conditions maybe we will get some respect back. Until then though, do your blood pressure a favor and let it go.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Call the local news.

Fox loves **** like that. Investigative reporting.


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

Give it a rest my ass. I throw these jerks under the bus every chance I get. I was working for someone the other day who was having some remodel work done. The "contractor" has the balls to ask me how to replace those leaky shut off valves at the kitchen sink. I told him "if I tell you I might get in trouble with the plumbing police". Then I pulled the home owner aside and explained that it is illegal for him to do that work and the "contractor" IS NOT INSURED IF HE MAKES A MISTAKE AND FLOODS YOUR CONDO AND THE THREE CONDOS UNDERNEATH YOU. But do what you got to do, I'm out the door..He had me come back and install all the kitchen plumbing. You have to make people understand what can go wrong and how it can COST THEM MORE$$. Some people like to take the risk, some don't. I just want to make it clear. Apples to apples, not apples to hacky hack don't give a crap when the check clears I'm gone.


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## American4ever (Jul 28, 2010)

*Will not lower my trade and turn a blind eye*

I guess if I let it go, I am no better then him. I will continue to be the bad guy and keep turning him in every chance I get. My blood is not thin. I was really hoping someone had some ideas, that I have not tried or would be more effective. I worked to hard to get my decree to allow someone to enjoy the same professional trade as me with zero education and training.:detective:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

pdxplumber said:


> Give it a rest my ass. I throw these jerks under the bus every chance I get. I was working for someone the other day who was having some remodel work done. The "contractor" has the balls to ask me how to replace those leaky shut off valves at the kitchen sink. I told him "if I tell you I might get in trouble with the plumbing police". Then I pulled the home owner aside and explained that it is illegal for him to do that work and the "contractor" IS NOT INSURED IF HE MAKES A MISTAKE AND FLOODS YOUR CONDO AND THE THREE CONDOS UNDERNEATH YOU. But do what you got to do, I'm out the door..He had me come back and install all the kitchen plumbing. You have to make people understand what can go wrong and how it can COST THEM MORE$$. Some people like to take the risk, some don't. I just want to make it clear. Apples to apples, not apples to hacky hack don't give a crap when the check clears I'm gone.


 
I have a question: If "contractor" was performing plumbing tasks, what were you doing there in the first place? I'm not criticizing or trying to call you out or anything just curious.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

In reality a one man shop can do you no harm unless you are a one man shop and he is taking your work..

Spend your time and energy on something more productive...such as increasing your own buisness sales and profit margins.

Let the powers that be worry about it.


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## Pac Rim Plumber (Jun 23, 2010)

*Washington State Plumbing Lic.*

American4ever

What part of State are you talking about Eastern or Western WA. The reason I ask is that I started my apprenticeship in WA. before moving to HI. I know 2 of the inspectors in King county, they love stuff like this. I once saw a inspector that had a GC ask him to leave the job site and that he would not provide the documentation that stated why we could not access the space next to where we were rerouting drain lines/vents due to a lawsuit from that tenant. The inspector was going to give us a waiver for the routing on a vent due to us not being able to gain access, but after the incident where he was told to bugger off. He left the job site and the next day OSHA showed up and had a field day. So best advice would be to contact the plumbing inspector that has jurisdiction and let him have some fun.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> In reality a one man shop can do you no harm unless you are a one man shop and he is taking your work..
> 
> Spend your time and energy on something more productive...such as increasing your own buisness sales and profit margins.
> 
> Let the powers that be worry about it.


No, but 100 unlicensed one man shops can.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> No, but 100 unlicensed one man shops can.


We have a lot of non licenced guys running around doing plumbing.... It all bites the customer in the arse in the end.

We have handymen, guys on strike and just the average normal joe doing it. Sometimes we even have the plumbing inspectors doing it on the side.

If I took all my time and energy chasing these guys around and trying to stop them I would be broke. No matter what there will always be someone to replace them.

I think the only way that it can be stopped is have the home insurance companies mandate that you can only used licenced guys to do your work or your home is not covered by insurance. Besides that the Government does absolutely nothing to stop it.

Having licenced plumber running around and reporting people is a large waste of your time.... You have to have an association lobby insurance companies to get them to accept such a proposal.


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## copperhead (Dec 26, 2009)

If you get caught driving without a license or insurance then there's a problem. If there were a way for local or state goverment to make some money off of it, then they will do something about it. Mabe you should talk to your local congressman and convince him you have a way to get the city out of the red & into the black.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Well I suppose that if you do need to exact your pound of flesh you could always find out where he lives and burn his house to the ground :whistling2:

Reality is a cruel thing sometimes but the truth is that at worst they will slap him on the wrist and fine him a couple hundred dollars and in 6 months to a year he will be right back at it. It's frustrating but the place to put your energy would be with your state chapter of the PHCC. Form a committee and ammend your state plumbing rules.


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## American4ever (Jul 28, 2010)

It gets to the point of team work in the trades. The work that a person puts into their education and training has value. These unlicensed beat the rules businesses degrade the value or all plumbers and trades.
If we allow them to work and do nothing we are part of the problem not the solution. 
I do believe something will change. I believe in my locate Plumbers and trades people will stop them. Clark County people don't take cheats to well.


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## PaulW (Jul 31, 2008)

I would second notifing the local news station.

I will also second letting it go. Like was said before if it's a one man operation he has no impact on your operations.

Remeber John Gotti operated under a plumbing supply house:whistling2:

Paul


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PaulW said:


> Remeber John Gotti operated under a plumbing supply house:whistling2:
> 
> Paul


I wouldn't call in and report John Gotti....:no:


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

There's a bunch of illegal plumbers here. I saw one ad in a local restaurant and came home and printed out the state's laws on including a license number in all advertising and pasted it to the ad. Not that it'll do any good.

There are also commonly ads in the "services offered" section of the local newspaper. You know the kind - will do lawn work, painting, electrical, plumbing. I've sent them to the state bureau including the name of the newspaper and date of publication and have yet to see anything done about it.

The problem is enforcement - with only a single inspector here in Idaho for about three counties, these guys are impossible to catch. When they do get caught, a judge just throws it out of court. This is possibly one of the most conservative states and the general feeling is that the government shouldn't interfere in anything anyone wants to do. There have been movements to have the state board abolished.

I recently got an email from the state regarding a new office in Pocatello in an attempt to achieve some presence in this side of the state. (You'd have to understand how Idaho is split up by geographical features.) We're about 300 miles from the main bureau offices. Plumbing inspectors work out of their homes.

I know without question that I could make more money and have a lot more work if there was better enforcement. But with that comes problems. I saw that, for the first time, they're going to require continued education for license renewal. I don't mind education, but after 35 years in business, I wonder if I shouldn't be teaching them . . .
after all, it's become so political that the bureaucrats are no longer likely to have ever been involved in the plumbing trade, just bureaucracies.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

*Herk*

Unfortunately you're wasting your time. There are so many out of work plumbers running around trying to get side-jobs, that no one can keep up. One advertissment on Craigslist by an out of work plumber was advertising he'd change hose spigots for $40.00 if cust. supplied parts. His fee for installing cust. supplied faucet was $50.00 and $ 75.00 to install cust. supplied w/c. This guy is working for wages only. Eventually he'll have to charge more or he'll fold up and go away.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*tp*

maybe not. if he make $25.00 x 40 hrs = $1000. after taxes. if he has a license that gas, beater truck and tools are his expenses. $52.000.00. just turn down jobs that require expensive tools. all big jobs. have checks made to tom jones or what ever his name is. don't deposit just cash them. breid...........:rockon:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

breid1903 said:


> maybe not. if he make $25.00 x 40 hrs = $1000. after taxes. if he has a license that gas, beater truck and tools are his expenses. $52.000.00. just turn down jobs that require expensive tools. all big jobs. have checks made to tom jones or what ever his name is. don't deposit just cash them. breid...........:rockon:


 
Yes I see your point. He could exist a long time as a bottom feeder.


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