# Tiny Titan water heater install



## Protech

Replaced a 19gal side outlet with this new top outlet. 

This mobile home had polybutylene pipe with grey fittings. I'm not sure if they are acetyl fittings or not but they look like it. The HO is the original owner and has never had even one leak. They are on chlorinated city water at about 65PSI. I talked to some of her neighbors and they have not had any leaks ether.

I noticed that the heater is made in Mexico (after I had it installed) which really pisses me off as I was told by my supplier that all of the heaters they sell are made in the USA and are union made.


----------



## Protech

see


----------



## ILPlumber

Where do the relief valves drain to?

I realize this prolly meets code in your area. I'm just curious.

I love IL code.


----------



## Protech

Under the mobile home.


----------



## Protech

Let me guess, they make you run it to the outside of the building or a drain up there.

Why?


----------



## ILPlumber

Protech said:


> Let me guess, they make you run it to the outside of the building or a drain up there.
> 
> Why?


:laughing: 

To be run to a FD or other approved receptor in the same room. No more than 5 feet away. Fixed air gap. 

:thumbup:


----------



## Protech

So you have to run a trap primer to then? What's the reason that it can't just discharge onto the ground(under the home or outside of it)?

Please don’t tell me “cuz it’s against code”. WHY is it against code. What is the reasoning behind the code.


----------



## Protech

What happens when the valve finally goes 10 years down the road for whatever reason and that drain has been stopped up from years of none use and solids buildup? Yeah, that much better then letting some potable water fall on the ground



ILPlumber said:


> :laughing:
> 
> To be run to a FD or other approved receptor in the same room. No more than 5 feet away. Fixed air gap.
> 
> :thumbup:


----------



## ILPlumber

If the T&P pops, the discharge will be noticed and repaired.

You could have a trap primer. Most guys just use vegetable oil.

A FD by a WH never hurts anyway. 

I want to be crystal clear, I am not knocking your work. You do good work.

I find the code differences across the country pretty humorous.


----------



## TheMaster

You guys can use pex to run a relief line? I thought the code stated it must not be restricted and that insert pex fitting is a restriction. We cant use plastic pans either...even on electric


----------



## Protech

The master. Can you explain your logic?

ILpulmber. If you'll notice, the t/p does have a means of visual inspection of the drain.


----------



## Plumber Jim

I thought plastic pans are ok for electrics. But I do gas heaters here so not sure.


----------



## Protech

I can't speak for your code, but ours says that the t/p must be the same as the inlet size.

Why couldn't one use a plastic pan on an electric heater?

Pex will work just fine even with boiling water running thru it provided that it's not under much pressure.



TheMaster said:


> You guys can use pex to run a relief line? I thought the code stated it must not be restricted and that insert pex fitting is a restriction. We cant use plastic pans either...even on electric


----------



## Ron

TheMaster said:


> You guys can use pex to run a relief line? I thought the code stated it must not be restricted and that insert pex fitting is a restriction. We cant use plastic pans either...even on electric


*608.5 Relief valves shall be provided with a fullsized drain, not smaller than the relief valve outlet, of galvanized steel or hard drawn copper, CPVC piping and fittings and shall extend from the valve to a discharge location which will avoid the hazard to persons or damage to property. Discharge locations outside of the building shall be not less than 6 inches (152 mm) above the ground or the flood level of the area receiving the discharge, and shall not terminate between 2 feet (610 mm) and 16 feet (4880 mm) above the ground or above any other area where persons may normally be present.*


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> I can't speak for your code, but ours says that the t/p must be the same as the inlet size.
> 
> Why couldn't one use a plastic pan on an electric heater?
> 
> Pex will work just fine even with boiling water running thru it provided that it's not under much pressure.


 Well thats just it...its not the same size as the inlet. The inlet is a full 3/4 id and the pex fitting is not. The city will not allow a plastic water heater pan period here. They can crack from dry rot before the heater pops! Especially in attics and closed in spaces


----------



## ILPlumber

Is that excerpt FL code or Oregon code?


----------



## Ron

Oregon Code


----------



## Protech

Interesting stuff but it ain't from my code:no:



Ron The Plumber said:


> *608.5 Relief valves shall be provided with a fullsized drain, not smaller than the relief valve outlet, of galvanized steel or hard drawn copper, CPVC piping and fittings and shall extend from the valve to a discharge location which will avoid the hazard to persons or damage to property. Discharge locations outside of the building shall be not less than 6 inches (152 mm) above the ground or the flood level of the area receiving the discharge, and shall not terminate between 2 feet (610 mm) and 16 feet (4880 mm) above the ground or above any other area where persons may normally be present.*


----------



## Ron

Our codes are more strict here.


----------



## Protech

Hmm, you must see something I don't because I see pex fittings on the inlet pipe that have the same ID as the one on the T/P




TheMaster said:


> Well thats just it...its not the same size as the inlet. The inlet is a full 3/4 id and the pex fitting is not. The city will not allow a plastic water heater pan period here. They can crack from dry rot before the heater pops! Especially in attics and closed in spaces


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Interesting stuff but it ain't from my code:no:


 What does your code say? 3/4 pex is not allowed here on a main water service either for the same reason. They want the pipe to be atleast a full 3/4 id. However we always run 1" for a typical home service.


----------



## Ron

3/4 Pex is allowed everywhere here but on the t&p drain


----------



## ILPlumber

I'm too lazy to search FL code.

I don't think WH inlet size has any bearing on T&P drain size.


----------



## Protech

Well, a permit was pulled for this job and did pass inspection.

In fact, The HO actually called the office to say what great work I did and that the inspector told her "That is a very good looking install. I don't see work that professional much anymore"


----------



## Ron

Just goes to show how different each code is, there will never be one code for all places, nope, it won't happen. :no:


----------



## Protech

You’re correct, it doesn't. It's based on the btu input of the heating device. If you do the calculations, an electric element couldn't even put out enough heat to over load a 3/8" OD copper pipe and cause a rise in pressure above the valves relief point.

There is no legitimate reason not to use pex in this installation from a code standpoint (my code, not yours) or an engineering standpoint and that's why it's there.



ILPlumber said:


> I'm too lazy to search FL code.
> 
> I don't think WH inlet size has any bearing on T&P drain size.


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Hmm, you must see something I don't because I see pex fittings on the inlet pipe that have the same ID as the one on the T/P


 http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/reliefvalvevspex001.jpg
Here you can clearly see the pex is clearly a restriction in the pipe. All insert fittings that push into 3/4 id pipe would be. even sharkbite when installed properly with the insert.


----------



## Ron

TheMaster said:


> http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/reliefvalvevspex001.jpg
> Here you can clearly see the pex is clearly a restriction in the pipe. All insert fittings that push into 3/4 id pipe would be. even sharkbite when installed properly with the insert.


Your right, but regardless of what it is, his code is not like ours, allowed there but not here, or prolly not by your code.


----------



## Protech

Furthermore, if your code bases the "inlet" as the valve itself and not the heaters inlet pipe, the you would have to run a IPS pipe not a CTS pipe. No cpvc, no pex, no poly, NO COPPER. Your choices would be limited to pvc, galvo, or threaded brass.



TheMaster said:


> Well thats just it...its not the same size as the inlet. The inlet is a full 3/4 id and the pex fitting is not. The city will not allow a plastic water heater pan period here. They can crack from dry rot before the heater pops! Especially in attics and closed in spaces


----------



## TheMaster

That 3/4 pex fitting's Id is roughly 5/8" actually alittle smaller on the sample in the pic.


----------



## Protech

And yes, I do realize the PVC would melt in a relief scenario. I was speaking simply in terms of pipe ID.


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Furthermore, if your code bases the "inlet" as the valve itself and not the heaters inlet pipe, the you would have to run a IPS pipe not a CTS pipe. No cpvc, no pex, no poly, NO COPPER. Your choices would be limited to pvc, galvo, or threaded brass.


 You lost me on that one...all my copper fittings,cpvc measure 3/4 id.....the same as the relief valve inlet. Why couldn't you use these?


----------



## Protech

read post #29



TheMaster said:


> That 3/4 pex fitting's Id is roughly 5/8" actually alittle smaller on the sample in the pic.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

I love our code in FL. Its like, really slack on certain things.


----------



## TheMaster

Anyway you wanna slice it,the pex fitting is a restriction because it chokes the pipe id down. Copper doesn't do that.....its MIP adapters area full 3/4 id. The relief valve inlet is 3/4 id. The relief valve is sized off btu's for water heaters and the relief discharge is based on the full id of the relief valve outlet and it must extend un-restricted. I agree it will work,I'm just saying what most codes say.


----------



## Protech

Well, if you really want to get down to it, K copper is slightly smaller than IPS in ID.

If think you code just takes a blanket approach. The T/P is oversized for most residential water heaters and so is the drain pipe. I have never seen or heard of a residential heater blowing up to due to a pex t/p drain. Tell ya what, things are slow right now and I have the old heater from this install. I'm gonna hard wire the element to a 240v line coming off of my compressor in the garage and cap the heater's inlet and outlet but I'm going to put a fresh t/p on it with a 1/2" pex drain. We shall see just how much pressure rise occurs past the relief point.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Nice, cant wait to see that man. Post some pics.


----------



## Protech

Me? post pictures?:laughing:


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Well, if you really want to get down to it, K copper is slightly smaller than IPS in ID.
> 
> If think you code just takes a blanket approach. The T/P is oversized for most residential water heaters and so is the drain pipe. I have never seen or heard of a residential heater blowing up to due to a pex t/p drain. Tell ya what, things are slow right now and I have the old heater from this install. I'm gonna hard wire the element to a 240v line coming off of my compressor in the garage and cap the heater's inlet and outlet but I'm going to put a fresh t/p on it with a 1/2" pex drain. We shall see just how much pressure rise occurs past the relief point.


Hey man we both now it would work,i'm not arguing that at all. I've done it and will do it again. I was reading the yellow tag on a 3/4 watts relief valve and it talks about restrictive fittings will demish the valves capacity,it doesn't say it will make it blow up. The deal with electric is the elements cannot fire off enough btu's quick enough to cause a dangerous situation.....I really doubt a 40,000 btu water heater could either. I feel it was worth the discussion. Thats what makes us stay sharp!


----------



## Protech

I couldn't agree more brother:thumbsup:



TheMaster said:


> Hey man we both now it would work,i'm not arguing that at all. I've done it and will do it again. I was reading the yellow tag on a 3/4 watts relief valve and it talks about restrictive fittings will demish the valves capacity,it doesn't say it will make it blow up. The deal with electric is the elements cannot fire off enough btu's quick enough to cause a dangerous situation.....I really doubt a 40,000 btu water heater could either. I feel it was worth the discussion. Thats what makes us stay sharp!


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> I couldn't agree more brother:thumbsup:


If you leave around midnight you can get here around daylight and help dig the sewer ditch around the house on that kitchen sink re-pipe job. We are also replacing the sewer or atleast part of it also. Call me when you get arounf P'cola and I'll dial you in on the location. Thanks I appreciate ya! Its just 100 degrees here! When the weather gets like this the inspectors start handing out "passed" stickers from the car!!!:laughing:Those guys wont even get out somtimes. They know who backs up there work and who doesn't. We have been in business for about 80 years


----------



## TheMaster

Two pieces please and a take home box too


----------



## Protech

You think it's hot up there? Come south a few hundred miles buddy. I'm setting up my 1000W metal halide light (like the ones the road crews have on top of the generators so they can work) just so I can work on my yard at night. It's just too darn hot during the day. The neighbors are just going to have to put up with it!


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> You think it's hot up there? Come south a few hundred miles buddy. I'm setting up my 1000W metal halide light (like the ones the road crews have on top of the generators so they can work) just so I can work on my yard at night. It's just too darn hot during the day. The neighbors are just going to have to put up with it!


I haven't cut the grass in a month!! Guy stopped outside my haouse and asked me "How long this house been vaccant"? thats sad


----------



## user4

That install would fail inspection here because there is no air gap for the relief drain.


----------



## Protech

The air gap is under the house. The PVC is just stubbed out under the vapor barrier of the mobile home as it the thermal expansion drain.


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> The air gap is under the house. The PVC is just stubbed out under the vapor barrier of the mobile home as it the thermal expansion drain.


Yeah here they want 1.5" pipe when you share a pan drain and relief line......and the 1.5" pvc line must extend to a visible location.
Dont the trailer home water heaters get closed up by a panel with screws?


----------



## stillaround

504.6.1 ( 2004 Fl. code)
The relief valve shall discharge full size to a safe place of disposal such as the floor, water heater pan, outside the building or an indirect waste receptor......installed in a manner not to cause personal injury...blah blah.
Fairly vague. Full size needs definition.


----------



## Ron

TheMaster said:


> Yeah here they want 1.5" pipe when you share a pan drain and relief line......and the 1.5" pvc line must extend to a visible location.


Thats crazy, pan drain here only has to be 3/4" and can be PVC.


----------



## stillaround

504.7
Electric heaters shall be installed in a metal pan or in a high impact plastic pan of at least .0625 in (1.59mm)thickness.


----------



## stillaround

504.7.1
..minimum diameter of 3/4" (19mm)---for pan drain


----------



## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> Thats crazy, pan drain here only has to be 3/4" and can be PVC.


 They allow water heaters in attics here and quite a few have overflowed the pan drains and ruined ceilings below with the 1" drains. We have alot of flying insects here that build nests also. Its just what they want and from what I've seen with overflowing pans i agree with them. We cant use 3/4 at all.


----------



## Protech

I run 1" pvc and I think that's more than adequate. 99.99999% of the time the failure is a leak in the tank wall and that wouldn't even overload a 1/2" pvc drain. I've also NEVER seen a residential T/P put out more than a 3/4" pvc drain could handle under any circumstances so I feel 1" pvc is already overkill.


----------



## stillaround

Protech said:


> I run 1" pvc and I think that's more than adequate. 99.99999% of the time the failure is a leak in the tank wall and that wouldn't even overload a 1/2" pvc drain. I've also NEVER seen a residential T/P put out more than a 3/4" pvc drain could handle under any circumstances so I feel 1" pvc is already overkill.


 We run 1" on our pan drains--the pan comes with a 1" adapter


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> I run 1" pvc and I think that's more than adequate. 99.99999% of the time the failure is a leak in the tank wall and that wouldn't even overload a 1/2" pvc drain. I've also NEVER seen a residential T/P put out more than a 3/4" pvc drain could handle under any circumstances so I feel 1" pvc is already overkill.


 Man I've seen a t&p valve fail and be flowing full 3/4 flow at pressure and fill a pan up within minutes. By the time a few dead roaches get in the mix and the line fills up and cant breath.....like a drain with no vent.


----------



## Ron

All pans we get here are 3/4 out only.


----------



## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> All pans we get here are 3/4 out only.


 yeah but the relief goes out independently right?


----------



## Ron

TheMaster said:


> yeah but the relief goes out independently right?


Sometimes, but most of the time it go to the pan and then the pan must drain to the open.


----------



## Protech

If I may ask, what caused it to fail like that? Did the spring just snap or something?



TheMaster said:


> Man I've seen a t&p valve fail and be flowing full 3/4 flow at pressure and fill a pan up within minutes. By the time a few dead roaches get in the mix and the line fills up and cant breath.....like a drain with no vent.


----------



## stillaround

We get mites to clog a gas orifice, ants to ruin an outdoors pressure switch but the roaches must be more behaved here. Never yet seen a bug stopped pan drain--21 yrs in fl.


----------



## Protech

It does happen, not frequently but it does happen.


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> If I may ask, what caused it to fail like that? Did the spring just snap or something?


 The water pressure is high in that part of town. pressure goes up to 100-110 at night and its about 75 psi in the day. I pulled up and the relief line was at full flow and overflowing the pan. Its happened several times....and I'm not sure if the springs get weak or what. Sometimes if the relief valve is not piped to where you can see it dripping,it can let alittle water through it every so often and corrode the spring. I cant recall if the springs were snapped or not....Its not very common i agree to that. Usually they dribble and thats it. People here have a tendency to do nothing until things completely fail.


----------



## TheMaster

stillaround said:


> We get mites to clog a gas orifice, ants to ruin an outdoors pressure switch but the roaches must be more behaved here. Never yet seen a bug stopped pan drain--21 yrs in fl.


 You have never found a pan drain stopped up with all kinds of stuff??? i've found them in laundry rooms with dryer sheets stuffed in them to keep the bugs out!!!! I asked "You guys ever hear of pest-control'??????? hell no size drain is big enough if your gonna stuff it full of dryer sheets


----------



## stillaround

Some of the spaces to work in cause for using the smaller pan that leaves little room around the heater. We have pressure issues as above stated but the last one I saw was piped to the outside.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

All my pan lines are 1 " and i will tie the relief line into the pan line as far down near the penatration as possible down stream.


----------



## Plumber Jim

TheMaster said:


> The water pressure is high in that part of town. pressure goes up to 100-110 at night and its about 75 psi in the day. I pulled up and the relief line was at full flow and overflowing the pan. Its happened several times....and I'm not sure if the springs get weak or what. Sometimes if the relief valve is not piped to where you can see it dripping,it can let alittle water through it every so often and corrode the spring. I cant recall if the springs were snapped or not....Its not very common i agree to that. Usually they dribble and thats it. People here have a tendency to do nothing until things completely fail.


If the pressure is that high it should have a PRV installed.


----------



## stillaround

Plumber Jim said:


> If the pressure is that high it should have a PRV installed.


True. 80 lbs. is the cut off.


----------



## stillaround

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> All my pan lines are 1 " and i will tie the relief line into the pan line as far down near the penatration as possible down stream.


 Do they nail you for any air gap issues. " visible air gap in the same room as the water heater".504.6.1. Im not questioning other than how the inspectors do you.


----------



## stillaround

TheMaster said:


> You have never found a pan drain stopped up with all kinds of stuff??? i've found them in laundry rooms with dryer sheets stuffed in them to keep the bugs out!!!! I asked "You guys ever hear of pest-control'??????? hell no size drain is big enough if your gonna stuff it full of dryer sheets


 Yes, drywall and construction debris. I never really thought a lot about the drain until this thread which is far better than until my last liability.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

stillaround said:


> Do they nail you for any air gap issues. " visible air gap in the same room as the water heater".504.6.1. Im not questioning other than how the inspectors do you.



No, as long as its far enough down stream, which its usually just before the penatration out side. There is no problems then. Its better than stubbing out two pipes outside to me. Just how I do it. Never failed for it.


----------



## Protech

Anything in red was somthing that was just added/changed this year. This is florida code on the subject.


*504.4 Relief valve.* All storage water heaters operating above atmospheric pressure shall be provided with an approved, self-closing (levered) pressure relief valve and temperature relief valve or combination thereof. The relief valve shall conform to ANSI Z21.22. The relief valve shall not be used as a means of controlling thermal expansion. *


http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"504.4.1 Installation.* Such valves shall be installed in the shell of the water heater tank. Temperature relief valves shall be so located in the tank as to be actuated by the water in the top 6 inches (152 mm) of the tank served. For installations with separate storage tanks, the valves shall be installed on the tank and there shall not be any type of valve installed between the water heater and the storage tank. There shall not be a check valve or shutoff valve between a relief valve and the heater or tank served.*http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"504.5 Relief valve approval.* Temperature and pressure relief valves, or combinations thereof, and energy cutoff devices shall bear the label of an approved agency and shall have a temperature setting of not more than 210°F (99°C) and a pressure setting not exceeding the tank or water heater manufacturer's rated working pressure or 150 psi (1035 kPa), whichever is less. The relieving capacity of each pressure relief valve and each temperature relief valve shall equal or exceed the heat input to the water heater or storage tank. *

http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"504.6 Requirements for discharge piping.* The discharge piping serving a pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination thereof shall: 


http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"2. Discharge through an air gap located in the same room as the water heater.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"3. Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve served and shall discharge full size to the air gap.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"4. Serve a single relief device and shall not connect to piping serving any other relief device or equipment.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"5. Discharge to the floor, to the water heater pan, to an indirect waste receptor or to the outdoors. Where discharging to the outdoors in areas subject to freezing, discharge piping shall be first piped to an indirect waste receptor through an air gap located in a conditioned area.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"6. Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable by the building occupants.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"8. Not be trapped.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"9. Be installed so as to flow by gravity.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"10. Not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor or waste receptor.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"11. Not have a threaded connection at the end of such piping.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"12. Not have valves or tee fittings.http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"13. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section 605.4 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.


----------



## Protech

continued.

*http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"504.7 Required pan.* Where water heaters or hot water storage tanks are installed above the ground floor space, in attics or ceiling areas, or within the habitable space, the tank or water heater shall be installed in a galvanized steel or other metal pan of equal corrosion resistance having a minimum thickness of 24 gage, 0.0276 inch (0.70 mm). Electric water heaters shall be installed in a metal pan as herein required or in a high-impact plastic pan of at least 0.0625 inch (1.59 mm) thickness. *


http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"504.7.1 Pan size and drain.* The pan shall be not less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) deep and shall be of sufficient size and shape to receive all dripping or condensate from the tank or water heater. The pan shall be drained by an indirect waste pipe having a minimum diameter of 0.75 inch (19 mm). Piping for safety pan drains shall be of those materials listed in Table 605.4.*http://www.plumbingzone.com/"/cgi-e...icsc0418&clrA=005596&clrV=005596&clrX=005596"504.7.2 Pan drain termination.* The pan drain shall extend full-size and terminate over a suitably located indirect waste receptor or floor drain or extend to the exterior of the building and terminate not less than 6 inches (152 mm) and not more than 24 inches (610 mm) above the adjacent ground surface.


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> continued.
> 
> *504.7 Required pan.* Where water heaters or hot water storage tanks are installed above the ground floor space, in attics or ceiling areas, or within the habitable space, the tank or water heater shall be installed in a galvanized steel or other metal pan of equal corrosion resistance having a minimum thickness of 24 gage, 0.0276 inch (0.70 mm). Electric water heaters shall be installed in a metal pan as herein required or in a high-impact plastic pan of at least 0.0625 inch (1.59 mm) thickness.
> 
> 
> *504.7.1 Pan size and drain.* The pan shall be not less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) deep and shall be of sufficient size and shape to receive all dripping or condensate from the tank or water heater. The pan shall be drained by an indirect waste pipe having a minimum diameter of 0.75 inch (19 mm). Piping for safety pan drains shall be of those materials listed in Table 605.4.*504.7.2 Pan drain termination.* The pan drain shall extend full-size and terminate over a suitably located indirect waste receptor or floor drain or extend to the exterior of the building and terminate not less than 6 inches (152 mm) and not more than 24 inches (610 mm) above the adjacent ground surface.


 They dont consider under a trailer to the exterior of the building here and I agree,it should be piped to the exterior of the foundation instead of possibly leaking for months sending water underneath in the crawl space until someone happens to find it or the heater fails completely. Alot of those Mobile home water heaters are closed off behined a panel that has screws in it...not even a door....you need tools to look at it. Even the AC guys pipe their emergency overflow to a readily visable location. otherwise of you never go in the room with the water heater you could go for months and not know it. Agree?


----------



## stillaround

I agree. Plumbing code doesnt define exterior--I wonder if elsewhere in the building code exterior is defined as outside the perimeter. They make a big deal about access etc. my conspiritorial side says the manufa. home lobby got their 2 cents in.


----------



## Protech

Believe me, they would know.

A get plenty of calls about high water bills, power bills, or not enough hot water that turn out to be t/p valves.


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Anything in red was somthing that was just added/changed this year. This is florida code on the subject.
> 
> 
> *504.4 Relief valve.* All storage water heaters operating above atmospheric pressure shall be provided with an approved, self-closing (levered) pressure relief valve and temperature relief valve or combination thereof. The relief valve shall conform to ANSI Z21.22. The relief valve shall not be used as a means of controlling thermal expansion.
> 
> 
> *504.4.1 Installation.* Such valves shall be installed in the shell of the water heater tank. Temperature relief valves shall be so located in the tank as to be actuated by the water in the top 6 inches (152 mm) of the tank served. For installations with separate storage tanks, the valves shall be installed on the tank and there shall not be any type of valve installed between the water heater and the storage tank. There shall not be a check valve or shutoff valve between a relief valve and the heater or tank served.*504.5 Relief valve approval.* Temperature and pressure relief valves, or combinations thereof, and energy cutoff devices shall bear the label of an approved agency and shall have a temperature setting of not more than 210°F (99°C) and a pressure setting not exceeding the tank or water heater manufacturer's rated working pressure or 150 psi (1035 kPa), whichever is less. The relieving capacity of each pressure relief valve and each temperature relief valve shall equal or exceed the heat input to the water heater or storage tank.
> 
> *504.6 Requirements for discharge piping.* The discharge piping serving a pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination thereof shall:
> 
> 
> 1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system.2.Discharge through an air gap located in the same room as the water heater.3. Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve served and shall discharge full size to the air gap.4. Serve a single relief device and shall not connect to piping serving any other relief device or equipment.5. Discharge to the floor, to the water heater pan, to an indirect waste receptor or to the outdoors. Where discharging to the outdoors in areas subject to freezing, discharge piping shall be first piped to an indirect waste receptor through an air gap located in a conditioned area.6. Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage.7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable by the building occupants.8. Not be trapped.9.Be installed so as to flow by gravity.10. Not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor or waste receptor.11. Not have a threaded connection at the end of such piping.12. Not have valves or tee fittings.13. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section 605.4 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.


READ LINE 7 OF CODE SECTION 504.6 IN THE QUOTE ABOVE. c told u so The water heater closet doesn't have a hinged door. that one has screws holding the panel in place. read line 3 also about the size of the relief outlet in relation to piping. I hope your not ever under the mobile home and the relief valve pop-off because the thermostats stuck becuase the water heater had been leaking so long the moisture corroded the contacts in the thermostats and it "locked up" in the on position. I wonder how much money the termite man would get after a relief line shot hot water in his face?


----------



## Protech

You may want to re-read that:whistling2:


----------



## Herk

Here, a trailer comes under federal code. All the state can do is check the connections to the sewer and water underneath. And I've never seen a federal code nor anyone who can do inspections. Somebody skipped that.


----------



## TheMaster

Protech said:


> You may want to re-read that:whistling2:


 You dont have a true airgap either.....the pvc tee would need to be extended vertically for you to get a true airgap......your relief line now is stuck into the tee.....thats connected to the pan....and your below the flood level of the pan........which makes NO airgap. A short piece of pvc pipe would have corrected that inserted in the top of the tee a few inches long. The water heater is behind a panel with screws and is not readily visible by the occupant. You wouldn;t get away with that in a new house here. Mobile homes are considered temporary structures here and do not fall under our code.


----------



## Protech

It up to code here

BTW, the Florida code is not clear on the difference between "air gap" and "air break". It actually calls for an "air gap" on heat exchangers when it obviously means "air break".


----------



## user4

Protech said:


> It up to code here
> 
> BTW, the Florida code is not clear on the difference between "air gap" and "air break". It actually calls for an "air gap" on heat exchangers when it obviously means "air break".


From what I have seen Florida code is a joke.


----------



## Protech

Well killer, unfortunatly I agree. And enforcement is even more so.


----------



## TheSkinnyGuy

what I find humorous is how DOGMATIC some people get about their local code, or UPC or whatever code. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!?!?!?


----------



## ILPlumber

I dunno why professional plumbers would get wrapped up in the code they are governed by


----------



## Protech

yeah, it's not like it realy matters


----------

