# Running a 2" pipe through a 2x4 wall



## hroark2112

I hate doing this. It makes me nuts!!


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## Qball415

No way of it to have been plumbed on back side of wall to minimize boring?


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## easttexasplumb

That's pretty much all we get here, a 2"X4" wall.


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## U666A

Load bearing?

The following user(s) wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum, Plumber71, DesertOkie


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## bartnc37

We have to run 3" to the acw trap arm than 2" trap if were gonna use an aav. Kinda makes it a pain when the existing unvented laundry is dumping into an old half buried 4x2 cast wye.


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## bartnc37

U666A said:


> Load bearing?
> 
> The following user(s) wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum, Plumber71, DesertOkie


 Not anymore:whistling2:


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## justin

i like the box with the aav. i dont like aav's but i know that in this biz you are forced to use them sometimes. ive did a few like that., but never the boxed aav. i usually take to attic or on wall with strut. i am going to use that idea now. if its ok.


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## rusak

justin said:


> i like the box with the aav. i dont like aav's but i know that in this biz you are forced to use them sometimes. ive did a few like that., but never the boxed aav. i usually take to attic or on wall with strut. i am going to use that idea now. if its ok.


This is the only way I install AAV's inside the wall with recessed box, and put grill over it on the trim out.


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## plumberkc

I like to cut the studs loose, that way you don't need as many couplings.


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## justin

rusak said:


> This is the only way I install AAV's inside the wall with recessed box, and put grill over it on the trim out.


im serious , i like it.


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## billy_awesome

You're allowed to have more than a 135 degree change in direction from trap to vent?


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## justin

billy_awesome said:


> You're allowed to have more than a 135 degree change in direction from trap to vent?


are u serious? the vent is behind ptrap with no directional change.


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## U666A

^^^
Refer to pic 1...


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## justin

U666A said:


> ^^^
> Refer to pic 1...


my bad , i shuffle through these pics si fast.


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## U666A

plumberkc said:


> I like to cut the studs loose, that way you don't need as many couplings.


Good call! There's only 7 pesky studs in the way, in the first pic alone... :laughing:

Grab me my sawzall!

:


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## plumberkc

Yeah, it won't work if you have any weight on the wall.


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## GREENPLUM

B] F101.2 Stud cutting and notching. In exterior walls and 
bearing partitions, any wood stud is permitted to be cut or 
notched to a depth not exceeding 25 percent of its width. Cut- 
ting or notching of studs to a depth not greater than 40 percent 
of the width of the stud is permitted in nonbearing partitions 
supporting no loads other than the weight of the partition. 

* F101.3 Bored holes. A hole not greater in diameter than 40 
per-cent of the stud width is permitted to be bored in any wood 
stud. Bored holes not greater than 60 percent of the width of the 
stud is permitted in nonbearing partitions or in any wall where 
each bored stud is doubled, provided not more than two such 
successive doubled studs are so bored. In no case shall the edge 
of the bored hole be nearer than 0.625 inch (15.9 mm) to the 
edge of the stud. Bored holes shall not be located at the same 
section of stud as a cut or notch.*


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## RealLivePlumber

We have them rules, too.

Problem is, if they were enforced, there would be no interior plumbing, or hvac


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## justin

RealLivePlumber said:


> We have them rules, too.
> 
> Problem is, if they were enforced, there would be no interior plumbing, or hvac


they sell 2/6 and 2/8 at any lumber yard.


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## RealLivePlumber

justin said:


> they sell 2/6 and 2/8 at any lumber yard.


So?

Rehab/ remodel. It is what it is.


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## GREENPLUM

1 or 2 no big deal , this is too many IMO , I hope nothing heavy is above it.

how much does the roof weigh?


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## slayrider

Contractors hate me but I make them put up 2x6 or 2x8 walls for me so I can do it right. If you cut out that much none of my inspectors will pass it and doing it once is more than enough. AAVs are good for when there is no vent available to solve problems of home owner done plumbing but in a reno of any size they can be made or tied into. I just hear the voice of a long dead plumber in my head screaming "air behind water stupid will you ever get it". I got it and thank you for teaching me my trade.


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## Tommy plumber

U666A said:


> Load bearing?
> 
> The following user(s) wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum, Plumber71, DesertOkie


 






If it were a load-bearing wall, the bottom and top plates would be doubled, I believe. Single bottom and top plates means a non-load bearing wall.


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## hroark2112

The laundry had to be specifically allowed by the AHJ. We're supposed to run that in 3" but there's no 3" line anywhere near and it's in a basement. I still think I'm going to fail my inspection. 

The upstairs is the kitchen. It was bore the exterior or the 2x6 floor joists. Either way sucks IMO. 

I should have turned the job down.


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## hroark2112

At least my primer is getting neater


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## Tommy plumber

hroark2112 said:


> The laundry had to be specifically allowed by the AHJ. We're supposed to run that in 3" but there's no 3" line anywhere near and it's in a basement. I still think I'm going to fail my inspection.
> 
> The upstairs is the kitchen. It was bore the exterior or the 2x6 floor joists. Either way sucks IMO.
> 
> I should have turned the job down.


 






You play the hand you were dealt. Re-models can be a little tricky. New construction is you installing everything new and where you need it to go. Service is easy; ie: replacing a supply line under a lav. But with re-models there is always something you didn't anticipate. That makes for an 'Oh sh!t, I didn't think of that.' moment or two.


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## Widdershins

I would have done it differently (the washer drain and trap-arm) with a combo and eliminated the san-tee and the long turn 90. . . . But, it's all done to code, right?

Life gave you lemons -- You made lemonade.


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## azmike

hroark2112 said:


> I hate doing this. It makes me nuts!!


Man you guys are killing me how many clean-outs are supposed to be on that run and where should they be?


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## Michaelcookplum

justin said:


> i like the box with the aav. i dont like aav's but i know that in this biz you are forced to use them sometimes. ive did a few like that., but never the boxed aav. i usually take to attic or on wall with strut. i am going to use that idea now. if its ok.


Maybe you made a mistake but why would you use a aav in the attic?


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## Michaelcookplum

billy_awesome said:


> You're allowed to have more than a 135 degree change in direction from trap to vent?


That wasn't awesome Billy


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## Michaelcookplum

Breaking up the floor and running a 2" line over to the wall where the wash machine is wasnt an option? I would have talked to GC into doing that. A good GC would have agreed. Jackhammer the floor up. Problem solved


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## NYC Plumber

Geeeeeeeez its not a load bearing wall who cares???
Chop up the floor....really? Im sure home owner would have went for the extra cost lol.


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## Widdershins

Michaelcookplum said:


> Breaking up the floor and running a 2" line over to the wall where the wash machine is wasnt an option? I would have talked to GC into doing that. A good GC would have agreed. Jackhammer the floor up. Problem solved


These are some very lean times -- Doing as you suggest would have been preferable, but it probably wasn't in the budget.


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## NYC Plumber

They could have ran the pipe on the wall and started the studs in frot of the pipe i suppose...
I really dont think its a big deal though.


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## Widdershins

plumberkc said:


> I like to cut the studs loose, that way you don't need as many couplings.


I just elongate the backside of one of the holes with a holesaw and pound it through.

Couplings cost money.


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## justin

Michaelcookplum said:


> Maybe you made a mistake but why would you use a aav in the attic?


is it illegal ?


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## NYC Plumber

If you took the trouble to into attic you might as well tie into vent stack before it goes though the roof.
You did the hrad part already.


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## justin

NYC Plumber said:


> If you took the trouble to into attic you might as well tie into vent stack before it goes though the roof.
> You did the hrad part already.


it really depends on application. but yes that would be obvious. i really just like the box for aav.


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## Michaelcookplum

justin said:


> it really depends on application. but yes that would be obvious. i really just like the box for aav.


Yea the box is nice. Never used one but have put a register grill to cover one up. My point was what NYC said. If you got it in the attic, why not just make a roof penetration? That's why I though you made a mistake saying attic.


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## NYC Plumber

Yeah. Lie that box with grill idea.
If i ever install an aav thats how it will be done.


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## RealCraftsMan

We have to put a plate over the bored holes. They are huge and take like 20 nails, supposed to be a way of resupporting the wall. No idea who makes them my boss buys them. Inspectors in Houston make us use them all of the time.


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## azmike

Well now you all missed it no -body answered my question! You're more concerned about drilling holes than the integrity of a simple code stipulation that every one should know.


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## justin

Michaelcookplum said:


> Yea the box is nice. Never used one but have put a register grill to cover one up. My point was what NYC said. If you got it in the attic, why not just make a roof penetration? That's why I though you made a mistake saying attic.


i could see maybe making a roof pen. like i say , it just depends on application and if homeowner wants to pay. but yes most definitely would be way to do it for best results. i was just talking cause i was tryingto compare ways to install aav. i really just like that sweet a$$ box.


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## walker426

RealCraftsMan said:


> We have to put a plate over the bored holes. They are huge and take like 20 nails, supposed to be a way of resupporting the wall. No idea who makes them my boss buys them. Inspectors in Houston make us use them all of the time.


 It's called a stud shoe


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## walker426

justin said:


> i could see maybe making a roof pen. like i say , it just depends on application and if homeowner wants to pay. but yes most definitely would be way to do it for best results. i was just talking cause i was tryingto compare ways to install aav. i really just like that sweet a$$ box.


 Oatey sells the box and aav for around 30 bucks


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## U666A

Tommy plumber said:


> If it were a load-bearing wall, the bottom and top plates would be doubled, I believe. Single bottom and top plates means a non-load bearing wall.


Good call Tommy, don't know what my local building code says about that, as I've never worked resi new construction. Good eye and attention to detail though!

:thumbup:


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## justin

RealCraftsMan said:


> We have to put a plate over the bored holes. They are huge and take like 20 nails, supposed to be a way of resupporting the wall. No idea who makes them my boss buys them. Inspectors in Houston make us use them all of the time.


its called a stud shoe


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## Widdershins

azmike said:


> Well now you all missed it no -body answered my question! You're more concerned about drilling holes than the integrity of a simple code stipulation that every one should know.


Where would you have have put the first c/o after the tie-in point if this had been you?


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## plumblevel

just a little fyi we normally drill 2-3 studs with a bit for a 3" pipe and get the 2" started and then you get enuff flex in the pipe to go through the other studs and then tap the pipe into the rest of the studs.


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## U666A

plumblevel said:


> just a little fyi we normally drill 2-3 studs with a bit for a 3" pipe and get the 2" started and then you get enuff flex in the pipe to go through the other studs and then tap the pipe into the rest of the studs.


If you "drill" a hole through a 2"x4" to accept 3" pipe, how much timber is left?

You use one of them there reciprocating drills, dont you?


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## drtyhands

Widdershins said:


> Where would you have have put the first c/o after the tie-in point if this had been you?


 
OOH-OOH,
Pick me..Pick me


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## plumberkc

We have a lot of high end basement finishes that all the co's get covered up. Passes inspection too.


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## hroark2112

I will probably add a CO on top of the santee. Make sure it doesn't get covered up too...just in case.

IIRC you need a CO every 5 fittings (don't shoot me, I am going by memory) but in this case, that would be silly.


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## Widdershins

drtyhands said:


> OOH-OOH,
> Pick me..Pick me



Can you do it in the form of an ISO drawing?


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## Widdershins

hroark2112 said:


> I will probably add a CO on top of the santee. Make sure it doesn't get covered up too...just in case.
> 
> IIRC you need a CO every 5 fittings (don't shoot me, I am going by memory) but in this case, that would be silly.


They should be able to snake it just fine from the AAV.


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## RealLivePlumber

Widdershins said:


> They should be able to snake it just fine from the AAV.


...That no one will know is there because everyone thinks it's a cold air return......


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## Widdershins

RealLivePlumber said:


> ...That no one will know is there because everyone thinks it's a cold air return......


Hmph. Good point.


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## billy_awesome

Michaelcookplum said:


> That wasn't awesome Billy


?


Anyways, not bashing your work at all, everything looks nice and clean and nice consistent fall on your pipe.

But referring to picture 1. Does anyone code have a maximum change in direction before the vent? We can only have 135 degrees here and it's a ***** for renovators here and explaining to them why we need to jackhammer up half the floor


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## Epox

I'm a huge fan of C/O's so would have put one on top of ST on Washing Machine. You can make sure the c/o fitting is outside of sheetrock or take measerments and put in a c/o plate.
GC's are always asking us to do things that wink at the code. A good GC will listen to your concerns. IMO he should have given you 2x6"s. Now he may be required to stand 2x2's up against that wall. Might not though I agree it does not appear load bearing but sure is a lot of wood missing. Our inspector doesn't like us drilling more than 3 or 4 2x"s in a row.I'll be interested in how this turns out. Good attention to detail drilling those holes btw.:thumbsup:


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## hroark2112

billy_awesome said:


> ?
> 
> Anyways, not bashing your work at all, everything looks nice and clean and nice consistent fall on your pipe.
> 
> But referring to picture 1. Does anyone code have a maximum change in direction before the vent? We can only have 135 degrees here and it's a ***** for renovators here and explaining to them why we need to jackhammer up half the floor


I plan on putting an AAV under the sink. That should solve the problem.


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## drtyhands

Widdershins said:


> Can you do it in the form of an ISO drawing?


 
Funny how many guys call themselves plumbers and can't draw
How do you comunicate how you want the system ran if you can't draw.

Two dimension stick drawing?
is that a drop or a riser?

30,60,90 using 60 for 45s


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## slayrider

The more I thought about it and after hearing mine turn on I thought a SaniFlo system was the way to go. I have it set up to drain the laundry sink and washer as my sewer out pipe is to high for gravity drain. I bought a sink style pump and it uses a 3/4" discharge pipe and I used a wet vent from a fixture in the kitchen.


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## Widdershins

*Introduction requested*



slayrider said:


> The more I thought about it and after hearing mine turn on I thought a SaniFlo system was the way to go. I have it set up to drain the laundry sink and washer as my sewer out pipe is to high for gravity drain. I bought a sink style pump and it uses a 3/4" discharge pipe and I used a wet vent from a fixture in the kitchen.


An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Associated Plum

justin said:


> i like the box with the aav. i dont like aav's but i know that in this biz you are forced to use them sometimes. ive did a few like that., but never the boxed aav. i usually take to attic or on wall with strut. i am going to use that idea now. if its ok.


 
FORCED or just a quicker and easier way?


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## hroark2112

Days like this make me want a nail gun!! 15 stud shoes is a lot of nails.


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## surfdog

I dont know dont think that would pass here lots of 1/4 bends no cleanouts corner post destroyed good luck with it.


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## OldSchool

You should have your License revoked

Just :jester:ing

somebody must have already nailed you on the 180 deg between the trap and vent


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## azmike

Bravo!! Some of you got it! There are two code violations .
1st. starting from under the san tee he has a long sweep, a 90, another 90, then a 22.5 total aggregate change in diection is 292.5 degrees. There should be a c/o out between the long wall run 2nd & 3rd 90's.
2nd. The 90's in the corners cannot be regular turn. the code stipulates that when changing directions on horizontal waste lines the fittngs to be used are have the the same equivelant radius as a 45. Which means you can accomplish that by using the following fittings.
4-16 bends,2-1/8 bends, or 1-long sweep 1/4 bend. Also the code cop might make you put a c/o right under the san tee!


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## Airgap

You're right, the primer does look better.....:whistling2:


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## GREENPLUM

the also make Double and Triple Stud Shoes.

great primer job


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## hroark2112

GREENPLUM said:


> the also make Double and Triple Stud Shoes.
> 
> great primer job


Dammit. I looked for some too!

Wish I knew where some could be found around here...


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## Miguel

It does look better with the stud shoes and it looks as if they double as protection plates also. Poor Awesome Billy's been screaming about the 180 deg change in direction on that one trap arm and so far no one's biting 'cept for OS noticing it too. lol

Good looking job all things considered. Obviously they aren't bearing walls since they're simply furring out from the cinderblock walls in behind and in the cases that I had to deal with like that (sometimes ya just gotta do wot ya gotta do) I simply nailed on protection plates and the GC made attachment points to the conc/block wall behind to give the wall some support from lateral forces.
And having been in a similar situation of putting a high polish on a turd, you did a great job of drilling and cutting. The grille over the AAV is ok but I've stopped doing that in favour of using an 8x8" plastic access cover. Doesn't get confused with the HVAC system and to anyone that's looking for valve, a CO or anything at all that might be there, an access cover will be opened, even if it wasn't what the poor service schlepp was hoping was behind door #1.


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## Epox

Uhmm, in case you didn't hear it,,,,,,,,,, nice primer job., :thumbup:


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## RW Plumbing

azmike said:


> Bravo!! Some of you got it! There are two code violations .
> 1st. starting from under the san tee he has a long sweep, a 90, another 90, then a 22.5 total aggregate change in diection is 292.5 degrees. There should be a c/o out between the long wall run 2nd & 3rd 90's.
> 2nd. The 90's in the corners cannot be regular turn. the code stipulates that when changing directions on horizontal waste lines the fittngs to be used are have the the same equivelant radius as a 45. Which means you can accomplish that by using the following fittings.
> 4-16 bends,2-1/8 bends, or 1-long sweep 1/4 bend. Also the code cop might make you put a c/o right under the san tee!


Be careful there, by my code what was done is perfectly legal. I don't understand what the change in direction thing has to do with anything. That must not be in our code. The vent comes off the top of the san tee, and would be considered a vertical drain pipe. There isn't a problem with pulling an individual vent off a vertical drain pipe here. The number of 90's downstream is irrelevent, and I cannot even understand why that would be a problem (assuming the fittings are the correct radius). The 90's in the corners look like long turns to me, unless I missed something. Also, a cleanout wouldn't be required here for that installation(assuming its less than 25' in developed length)

EDIT: They aren't long turn 90's, that wouldn't pass here. You're allowed to make the first one (where it comes out of the wall for the lav) a short turn but everything else has to be long radius.


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## billy_awesome

code is funny, it's what we learn in school and they just shove it down our throat. For obvious reasons. Just funny how code can be so different everywhere you go. Basically for picture 1 in our code I would of had to put a 45 degree elbow coming out of the wall and just hope to hell it would be close enough to the drain that a p-trap could swing around and be center.

Some things are a cardinal sin for me, but then when you yankees see all our ABS above ground and fernco couplers basically anywhere you want I hear all about it!!!! hahahahaha


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## Epox

You took it well. You have to have thick skin to post your work around here. :laughing:


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## mccmech

justin said:


> they sell 2/6 and 2/8 at any lumber yard.


Tell that to the gc. We have to play the hand we're dealt.


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## bizzybeeplumbin

Did it pass Anthony??? Did it? Did it?

It wouldn't have in Los Angeles, but here is different. I think I would have just told them to go through the concrete and that's it, take it or call someone else who will take the time to drill through all those studs! (Like you)

Great job, especially for what you had to deal with dude.


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## hroark2112

Ok, guess I'm in trouble!! I have a meeting tomorrow with the chief plumbing inspector on site. I think he's pissed off that they moved the washing machine around the corner. The plans he was shown were different. I think I'm going to get yelled at. 

Ah well.


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## DesertOkie

Pressure couplings.


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## hroark2112

I'm hoping he makes the contractor reframe the wall in 2x6's.


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## justin

hroark2112 said:


> I'm hoping he makes the contractor reframe the wall in 2x6's.



Originally Posted by justin
they sell 2/6 and 2/8 at any lumber yard.


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## Plumbero007

FHA strap - Metal straps that are used to repair a bearing wall cut-out. They are made to repair holes up to 2.25" in 2x4 framing studs. Ask for them in plumbing supply houses, Big box stores do not stock them. Very good and code approved.


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## Widdershins

hroark2112 said:


> Ok, guess I'm in trouble!! I have a meeting tomorrow with the chief plumbing inspector on site. I think he's pissed off that they moved the washing machine around the corner. The plans he was shown were different. I think I'm going to get yelled at.
> 
> Ah well.


You deviated from approved plans after they already made concessions on the drain size in the Plans Department?

You're screwed.:yes:


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## hroark2112

Oh, I know. I'm going to make the GC responsible for it. Hopefully they make us pull the wall down & do it over, so I can charge double


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## hroark2112

So they told me today they want me to relocate the kitchen sink line through the floor joists. I can buy that one, it's a load bearing wall. They want me to add a vent to the end of the line for the washing machine and run it outside. I can leave all the stud boots even though they don't recognize them at all. When I tried to find the vent through the roof, i found they the existing vent was cut off so the radon fan could be run through the roof. Wow. 

Here's where they want me to add a vent and run from the basement to the roof.


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## Widdershins

hroark2112 said:


> So they told me today they want me to relocate the kitchen sink line through the floor joists. I can buy that one, it's a load bearing wall. *They want me to add a vent to the end of the line for the washing machine and run it outside.* I can leave all the stud boots even though they don't recognize them at all. When I tried to find the vent through the roof, i found they the existing vent was cut off so the radon fan could be run through the roof. Wow.
> 
> Here's where they want me to add a vent and run from the basement to the roof.


So, are they asking for a relief vent on the clothes washer line?

I would have to do that here if there wasn't already a vent on a drain with an AAV installed.


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## AWWGH

Getting a 2 x 6 wall is like getting a plumber on the weekend! :laughing:


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