# Kohler Cast Iron Utility Sink



## Snowyman800

Today we set a rather large cast iron Kohler sink, 6607-4 was the number, and ran into some problems. We followed the spec sheet to the 1/16" in setting our wall mount brackets for the sink. The spec sheet says to set the TOP of the brackets to 41-1/16", which we did. So when we went to set the legs after mounting the sink, number for it was 6617, the brackets ended up being a 1/2" too low and was running backwards really bad. Double checking our measurements again everything was good, floor was level and wall was plumb in the area of the sink. My boss was furious that despite us following the spec sheet down to the 1/16", the sink still did not sit properly. He called up Kohler and asked them about the sink in particular asking if there had been any complaints about it. He also called our supplier and asked them. He was already in a bad mood since one of the Jaclo faucets was missing set screw for an escutcheon. In the end we had to take the sink back off and move the brackets up, to 41-9/16". After that, it sit perfectly. Perhaps Kohler will try to say it was a misprint and the top half of the 9 hadn't been printed. Has anyone run into issues with this sink or anything else by Kohler? Things to keep an eye out for in the near future would be helpful. Thanks.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

im not a big fan of kohler, they have had alot of defective issues in the past..but that sink looks really nice..


----------



## OldNelly

^ What he said.


----------



## Snowyman800

OldNelly said:


> ^ What he said.


We don't really have much say in what's picked. It's whatever the homeowner picks out or the contractor goes with. We're working in one house right now where the homeowner bought a bunch of display items because they thought it would be cheaper. It's a massive house, I'm not sure what the sqaure footage is, but even for the houses we work in it's pretty big, nice gated community with its own golf course. Oaktree, up by Edmond, OK. All the fixtures, though, are scuffed up pretty bad. A lot of them are missing pieces since they were never really meant to be set it seems. They even came still on the display stands and cases. But a lot of the time we see Kohler sinks and toilets. With this cast iron sink in particular is the first time we've across a problem like this. What do you guys normally use or recommend for sinks?


----------



## OldNelly

I'm pretty much in the same boat you are. Once the homeowner has their mind set on cast iron sink it will be a Kohler. Kindred are my go to sinks, stainless steel first followed by granite. I find that cast iron sinks scratch and chip a bit too easily, not that stainless sinks don't get scratched up. In my opinion Kohler toilets are junk, I recommend Gerber or Toto. But when the homeowner sees a fixture they like it's often hard to change their minds. Oh well, I can always come back and fix their highfalutin fixture when it breaks.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

I had one job, I was doing for a steady contractor and gave a price, a few bathrooms and a kitchen..the homeowner bought a junk lot of faucets and fixtures and expected me to install this mess and figure out all the missing parts for the same price...:no: wasnt happening..I told the contractor my price was for installing NEW off the shelf fixtures and faucets...the homeowner wanted his crap put in..so $$$ later it was and it would have been cheaper if he bought new in the first place...thats what I tell customers that try and go that route..ill admit the kolher stuff looks really nice, but thats where it stops..the faucets looks like they have a contest of how many seperate pieces they can come in...I try to get high end users to go with grohe stuff, but they dont make fixtures so back to kolher..


----------



## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I had one job, I was doing for a steady contractor and gave a price, a few bathrooms and a kitchen..the homeowner bought a junk lot of faucets and fixtures and expected me to install this mess and figure out all the missing parts for the same price...:no: wasnt happening..I told the contractor my price was for installing NEW off the shelf fixtures and faucets...the homeowner wanted his crap put in..so $$$ later it was and it would have been cheaper if he bought new in the first place...thats what I tell customers that try and go that route..ill admit the kolher stuff looks really nice, but thats where it stops..the faucets looks like they have a contest of how many seperate pieces they can come in...I try to get high end users to go with grohe stuff, but they dont make fixtures so back to kolher..


 For our job where they bought the display items, I guess they thought they would save money buying those. But like you said, in the time we have to spend trying to make it work or trying to find parts for it, they probably don't get ahead any. If it's time and material, that's one thing. If it's a bid job, my boss says forget and they can figure out where to find the parts. We point them in a direction and they'll have to find it, he didn't include in his bid to spend all his time searching for a missing piece. If they want him to do it, he'll tack on a generous amount for his trouble. We had another homeowner buy all their stuff off Amazon one time too, because they thought the supplier our contractor used was ripping people off. Usually there were bits and pieces missing from the fixtures or it wasn't the right fixture to begin with or the homeowner had no idea where they put it. Madness I say.


----------



## Snowyman800

But speaking of homeowners being set in what they want, we had another homeowner tell my boss they wanted to keep a particular faucet. Or they wanted something in particular made into a faucet. I'm not really sure. Either way, my boss spent a ridiculous amount of time on this "fish faucet". He had to fish 3/8" copper through it and solder a way to attach an aerator to it and figure a way out to be able to set it to a countertop. On top of that, due to delicate nature of the design on it, it also needed some work done on the fins, since they were starting to try to break off. For them I guess they didn't care about the price, just wanted their faucet. For the time spent alone on it, I'm sure it cost them a pretty penny. But hey, we do whatever they want if they'll pay for it.


----------



## rwh

Snowyman800 said:


> But speaking of homeowners being set in what they want, we had another homeowner tell my boss they wanted to keep a particular faucet. Or they wanted something in particular made into a faucet. I'm not really sure. Either way, my boss spent a ridiculous amount of time on this "fish faucet". He had to fish 3/8" copper through it and solder a way to attach an aerator to it and figure a way out to be able to set it to a countertop. On top of that, due to delicate nature of the design on it, it also needed some work done on the fins, since they were starting to try to break off. For them I guess they didn't care about the price, just wanted their faucet. For the time spent alone on it, I'm sure it cost them a pretty penny. But hey, we do whatever they want if they'll pay for it.


That is awesome. Make me one


----------



## OldNelly

Good lord! That thing is fuuugly. Good on your boss for making it work though.


----------



## Snowyman800

So for this cast iron sink since the bottom is exposed my boss wants to use chrome supply lines. I've only done chrome supplies once before and I remember it being a pain, mostly due to my inexperience with it. I'm sure my boss will give me the rundown on it again when I go to do that, but some extra tips are appreciated. The faucets are almost directly above the stops, so I don't know if that'll make it more difficult since the supply lines will be rigid. We have the flaring tool but I think that's it. If you think I should pick something up to help make it go and look better, I'd like to try to get it.


----------



## Debo22

Spring bender and lock ridge tool is how I was taught years ago


----------



## Snowyman800

Debo22 said:


> Spring bender and lock ridge tool is how I was taught years ago


Since the lines are going almost straight up, they'll need to offset a little, you think spring benders would be the best thing? Because I'm pretty sure we don't have any in the smaller sizes, if any at all. An actual tubing bender would be better suited for when actual offsets are needed, correct?


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

GEEZ..that could hurt getting stuck on the tail one drunk night...
but great work making the fish faucet...


----------



## sparky

Snowyman800 said:


> So for this cast iron sink since the bottom is exposed my boss wants to use chrome supply lines. I've only done chrome supplies once before and I remember it being a pain, mostly due to my inexperience with it. I'm sure my boss will give me the rundown on it again when I go to do that, but some extra tips are appreciated. The faucets are almost directly above the stops, so I don't know if that'll make it more difficult since the supply lines will be rigid. We have the flaring tool but I think that's it. If you think I should pick something up to help make it go and look better, I'd like to try to get it.


All you need is a cheap set of tubing benders (the lever type) and you need to learn how to use them and you will not have any problems with chrome supply's,but key here is knowing how to use the benders:laughing::yes:


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Snowyman800 said:


> So for this cast iron sink since the bottom is exposed my boss wants to use chrome supply lines. I've only done chrome supplies once before and I remember it being a pain, mostly due to my inexperience with it. I'm sure my boss will give me the rundown on it again when I go to do that, but some extra tips are appreciated. The faucets are almost directly above the stops, so I don't know if that'll make it more difficult since the supply lines will be rigid. We have the flaring tool but I think that's it. If you think I should pick something up to help make it go and look better, I'd like to try to get it.


what do you usually use for connecting faucets? on an inspected job here rigid supplies or if the flexible lines are an integral part of the faucet they can be used..what kind of connection on the bottom of the faucet? should be for the standard supplies with the bulb end..just bend the supplies be hand or if its tight I use a tubing bender, the springs on a tight bend would get stuck on the supplies..


----------



## Snowyman800

sparky said:


> All you need is a cheap set of tubing benders (the lever type) and you need to learn how to use them and you will not have any problems with chrome supply's,but key here is knowing how to use the benders:laughing::yes:


Well, yea. I have no idea how they work. Does it come it with instructions?!? Hahaha.


----------



## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> what do you usually use for connecting faucets? on an inspected job here rigid supplies or if the flexible lines are an integral part of the faucet they can be used..what kind of connection on the bottom of the faucet? should be for the standard supplies with the bulb end..just bend the supplies be hand or if its tight I use a tubing bender, the springs on a tight bend would get stuck on the supplies..


We use braided supply lines. Only time we use the 3/8" PEX lines as supply lines on a faucet is on the Delta faucets, like you said it's in integral part of the faucet. The set up for this faucet is the same as others, though. 3/8" COMP on the angle stop by 1/2" FIP on the faucet.


----------



## OldNelly

Grab some scrap 3/8" copper and play with the benders. They're fairly easy to get the hang of.


----------



## 89plumbum

Just measure center to center and keep your offset up as high as possible. A bit of muscle and finesse should do the trick. Nice sink btw.

I recently had an apprentice install about 30 chrome supplies. He was cussin all day and asked why we couldn't use braided supplies? I said no, this is what they sent out and it's what we're going to use.( I really just wanted him to get use to bending) Near day's end, our SV walked in and saw him struggling and said, why didn't you just go get some braided supplies? Lol


----------



## plumbdrum

I always used benders, once you understand the bender you use its easy, and more of a professional looking job.


----------



## GREENPLUM

I offer them , but most choose the ss flexible type. I offer my customers a choice. The most inexpensive is pex supplies with polyferrules


----------



## GREENPLUM

They have there place on pedestal sinks and exposed fixtures


----------



## Snowyman800

89plumbum said:


> Just measure center to center and keep your offset up as high as possible. A bit of muscle and finesse should do the trick. Nice sink btw.
> 
> I recently had an apprentice install about 30 chrome supplies. He was cussin all day and asked why we couldn't use braided supplies? I said no, this is what they sent out and it's what we're going to use.( I really just wanted him to get use to bending) Near day's end, our SV walked in and saw him struggling and said, why didn't you just go get some braided supplies? Lol


I think the biggest problem I had when setting the chrome supplies I did like 2 years ago was getting them into the stop and also hooked into the faucet. Same thing with the toilet. Both supply lines were fairly short so there wasn't a lot of play in them to get them hooked up. On this cast iron sink, there's about 21" from the stop to the hookups on the faucet, giving me a little more to work with. So is there a trick to getting them set, or do you just have to bend them out enough to slide both ends in and unbend them afterwards?


----------



## Snowyman800

Is the Ridgid tubing bender the way to go, or should I look at some other ones? I'm not looking for an obscenely expensive one, but I do want a quality one.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Snowyman800 said:


> Is the Ridgid tubing bender the way to go, or should I look at some other ones? I'm not looking for an obscenely expensive one, but I do want a quality one.


here you go..a whopping $10.00 http://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/redirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_tools_sr_pg1_1?pl=7VgtUG7AGR7%2BuPlYBcaTn9x8821zdaFt9iR50D8qgQOiu8FU9gcAyKrfkJhXI2Sj5e%2FSfDMwyFfO%0Avk5jybqHSivRxpRASF0sIzoXtcPX%2Bh%2FdQfAovh35IWFuPNkipQRHDZSmNIm6o4wlu2hq%2F2ll0k80%0AywuoJmNwVXrYLSpzX%2FAOfKBkWTdtkwZt2Ec0s6GtEtvF6MoRQ1C0LDn%2FqdkK5yp%2FgLvNv6441%2BPt%0AolJqQ33WAu6D%2FE1PX1DXlTuFNP57QZyMe%2B5VX2vosFW3QW6mw4ZVdRIMoxeajp3IDt42guH1dbWQ%0A2furtn6qh7RX0dfhSSAsfCPFG4D3g6pfVwL76PJ6qP5hMPChQKyHWxMAx9UMAtOI6xljpqMImh9T%0Adbv0QJtEIeMZvtpkvHSJDifAVnXdFheMR%2B4wmXvXwNiycWSHjTrxrnwa59XcX4HnW9MobX6mvUtD%0AgFB5RmMV3dWjIweau0pZ8%2FP7uH1qFmiTMZ8HjpNOa2S2ciZYXqZqu0vHZpKVpSv6YSMV5BtyZCJT%0A1U7xn%2BHVoV5efQv5EbzPHbEK%2B9hC%2BV03pKt45d7G4xGrfIzFFyCqUczkXCe9qeu8q53ccCP10gF9%0AdH9ZExBh7Ga9dHXMUwlD2TyLg0Y6KarKvhzuIFIT7lUvwn3dXqzk5kAejxFrRkzOyRmTFnvXz1vg%0A3IPFyPeL6a5I6%2Bgx8DpKvVN%2Bw07p1kKjtWhq5wmLmcDWFgCZG5VJSPQf%2F0%2BaJfRQ%2B2tbk97yYhhN%0A1i%2Fu0V4vtSw57G7euAHtKejnKjgI51hUXwnZhndSz8zpa7UvacD4P4WghTZMmjC3ULZu2vIg5iJ0%0AfQZ7g%2Bu1YYM%2BAw7%2BZWeYPiAVL%2BKCXtM3Ta9%2FL%2B8%2B7g9dAAyzYRdIummbhoHtNhwkw73j5U3ZF3B9%0AQPthR%2FMPXreNQeUesPvu91C78ZMW3fZjYIiD3%2Brpk%2BuvsyfFYMC%2Fzzx5dfnDwqMeoXigHU4EvZ5R%0ApYDLvagQrOjZr9qvrCa01aW9s2zErkUlbos0J%2FkvbO8S2zHMgJDmntnT3m6uMaZ3Ux%2BSW%2BWNk52E%0A46us3O0%2BJJS9qjJ243%2ByM7mGvJCNhmVYkl2zqyeryYdvpo6BCTjmiq84mcNcfdmUjcM%3D&token=E22ABA2123F861C676EF102A023476208C6D3365


----------



## Toli

89plumbum said:


> Just measure center to center and keep your offset up as high as possible. A bit of muscle and finesse should do the trick. Nice sink btw.
> 
> I recently had an apprentice install about 30 chrome supplies. He was cussin all day and asked why we couldn't use braided supplies? I said no, this is what they sent out and it's what we're going to use.( I really just wanted him to get use to bending) Near day's end, our SV walked in and saw him struggling and said, why didn't you just go get some braided supplies? Lol


That's how I do it. Nut the tube to the faucet, letting it run wild past the stop and measure the offset. Works best with a folding ruler. :yes:

Start your bend as high as possible and use your stick of inches to measure the offset you make. Cut to length, bend a bit to get it in there and then straighten it back out. Tighten the nut and ferrule, wiggling the supply tube slightly until the nut bottoms out with your fingers. Wrench both ends tight. Boom, done.


----------



## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> here you go..a whopping $10.00


At that price, you can't afford to not have one.


----------



## Snowyman800

Toli said:


> That's how I do it. Nut the tube to the faucet, letting it run wild past the stop and measure the offset. Works best with a folding ruler. :yes:


Hey, there's the pro tip I was looking for. I would have made it hard on myself and measured the faucet hookup, measured the stop, figured the difference, and then tried to set it. Your way is a whole lot easier. Is there a rule of thumb for figuring an offset, like how much extra pipe to include for it?


----------



## Toli

Snowyman800 said:


> Hey, there's the pro tip I was looking for. I would have made it hard on myself and measured the faucet hookup, measured the stop, figured the difference, and then tried to set it. Your way is a whole lot easier. Is there a rule of thumb for figuring an offset, like how much extra pipe to include for it?



I suppose you could do the math and figure it out. I wing it.


----------



## 89plumbum

Snowyman800 said:


> I think the biggest problem I had when setting the chrome supplies I did like 2 years ago was getting them into the stop and also hooked into the faucet. Same thing with the toilet. Both supply lines were fairly short so there wasn't a lot of play in them to get them hooked up. On this cast iron sink, there's about 21" from the stop to the hookups on the faucet, giving me a little more to work with. So is there a trick to getting them set, or do you just have to bend them out enough to slide both ends in and unbend them afterwards?


Sorry I didnt reply sooner, got a house full of sick people. Yeah, what Toli said, great advice.

Also, for those times where there's not much room, you can bend your tube and cut to length before you solder on your stops.

Example: 8" spread going into a mixing valve. Normally you see stops pointing up and then 2- 90 degree bends going into mixer. In my opinion, a cleaner look is facing your stops towards each other with 2- strait pieces going into mixer. Build it all then solder your stops last.


----------



## sparky

Snowyman800 said:


> Hey, there's the pro tip I was looking for. I would have made it hard on myself and measured the faucet hookup, measured the stop, figured the difference, and then tried to set it. Your way is a whole lot easier. Is there a rule of thumb for figuring an offset, like how much extra pipe to include for it?


Like he said nut line to faucet and let hang,measure offset using the numbers on tape measure,not the end of the tape measure like usual,it's easier to get accurate measurement doing this,then If your offset is wide enough for a 90 degree bend use 90s,what ever the length is of offset you want to put half of that on the 45 degree Mark on your bender and this will give you a true 90 degree bend offset,if the length is to short for a 90 then you have to use a 45,you just put half the measurement where it will hit the 221/2 degree Mark on your bender,you will mess up until you get the hang of it,but once it clicks,you will love doing chrome supply's,only thing I hate bout them is you have to have so many tools just for a supply line,cutters,tape,wrenches,channellocks,marker,bunch of crap:yes:


----------



## Snowyman800

My new tools for the day! Due to the short notice on purchasing the tools, when we picked up the materials to run the chrome supplies I picked up the tools I needed at the supply store as well. $61 for the two. I felt pretty good about the purchase. It even came with instructions. We had to go to a different supplier than our usual to find the chrome supplies and the guy who wrote the ticket didn't even know they sold the stuff. I guess not a lot of guys buy it. For 12' of the 3/8" chrome supply, it was more expensive than my tools!


----------



## Snowyman800

My practice piece. Took me a few minutes but I got the hang of it. We didn't actually have any 3/8" copper scrap laying around so I had to use some of the extra chrome we had. Sooo....that piece probably cost a little over $12.


----------



## Snowyman800

And one of the pieces I actually used and installed. It did definitely take longer than using a braided supply but it does definitely look better and more professional. I was satisfied with the finished product. Of course it does take a little longer to do, I think even if I got fast at it, and it's right about the same price as using a braided supply line, so I can see why it's difficult to compete against the braided lines. I do like what the one guy said, giving the homeowner a choice and seeing what they want to do. Sorry one guy, forgot your name.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Snowyman800 said:


> My new tools for the day! Due to the short notice on purchasing the tools, when we picked up the materials to run the chrome supplies I picked up the tools I needed at the supply store as well. $61 for the two. I felt pretty good about the purchase. It even came with instructions. We had to go to a different supplier than our usual to find the chrome supplies and the guy who wrote the ticket didn't even know they sold the stuff. I guess not a lot of guys buy it. For 12' of the 3/8" chrome supply, it was more expensive than my tools!


Good tools are not an expense....They are an investment that will make you money....I would have made the chrome valves tighter, so you dont see any copper, or tin the stub before pulling on the stops..otherwise very nice job...


----------



## plumbdrum

There ya go, just like a pro. Screw that braided homeowner crap.


----------



## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Good tools are not an expense....They are an investment that will make you money....I would have made the chrome valves tighter, so you dont see any copper, or tin the stub before pulling on the stops..otherwise very nice job...


 I'm not sure by what you mean when you say tin the stub. The reason we set the angle stops so far out is that if we ever have to replace them we have a little extra copper outside the wall to tie onto. Of course those are compression stops so if we wanted, we can just reuse the old nut and ferrel. I always like to set all new ferrel and nut if I can, then I can replace the escutcheon too. Usually they don't look so great when it comes around to replacing the stops. But agreed, tools are an investment. I'm always buying new tools.


----------



## bct p&h

The exposed copper kind of kills it. Why not use the sweat stops with the chrome extension? 
I didn't use flex supplies for the first 4 years or so when I started plumbing. I was always taught they were more of a homeowner/handyman thing. Never really questioned it. I still use hard supplies more often than not, only use flexes if it's really tight.
You're bends look really good. A lot better than looping a couple flexes.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Snowyman800 said:


> I'm not sure by what you mean when you say tin the stub. The reason we set the angle stops so far out is that if we ever have to replace them we have a little extra copper outside the wall to tie onto. Of course those are compression stops so if we wanted, we can just reuse the old nut and ferrel. I always like to set all new ferrel and nut if I can, then I can replace the escutcheon too. Usually they don't look so great when it comes around to replacing the stops. But agreed, tools are an investment. I'm always buying new tools.


tinning the stub is solder coating the copper coming out of the wall to look like chrome, clean it to the wall, flux it up , heat it up and run some solder end to end then wipe it around with a cloth and wipe it smooth..instant chrome..


----------



## Snowyman800

bct p&h said:


> The exposed copper kind of kills it. Why not use the sweat stops with the chrome extension?
> I didn't use flex supplies for the first 4 years or so when I started plumbing. I was always taught they were more of a homeowner/handyman thing. Never really questioned it. I still use hard supplies more often than not, only use flexes if it's really tight.
> You're bends look really good. A lot better than looping a couple flexes.


I have honestly never sweat an angle or straight stop on. And around here, I've only ever seen one that I can remember. It's usually 3/8" or 1/2" galvanized line running into the stop or it's the compression type. But I don't think I could convince my boss to start using hard supplies, much less chrome supplies. Perhaps it's something I could consider in the future if I do start working for myself. I've got the tools to do it!!


----------



## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> tinning the stub is solder coating the copper coming out of the wall to look like chrome, clean it to the wall, flux it up , heat it up and run some solder end to end then wipe it around with a cloth and wipe it smooth..instant chrome..


Hey, that does sound shiny. On our copper kickouts I always sand it down from the stop all the way to the wall, even behind the escutcheon. Get all the paint and mud off. But tinning the stub does sound nice.


----------



## bct p&h

Snowyman800 said:


> I have honestly never sweat an angle or straight stop on. And around here, I've only ever seen one that I can remember. It's usually 3/8" or 1/2" galvanized line running into the stop or it's the compression type. But I don't think I could convince my boss to start using hard supplies, much less chrome supplies. Perhaps it's something I could consider in the future if I do start working for myself. I've got the tools to do it!!


You never see compression stops around here, and if you do it was a handyman/homeowner that put it on.
I had one blow off at me that a homeowner put on and didn't tighten enough. I had to sit there with my thumb over the wide open ½" pipe for about 5 minutes while the Mrs of the house looked around the basement for the shut off. Turned me off of compression stops for life.
I like the chrome sweat stops with the extension. We'll use them in cabinets too to match the chrome Washington trap we usually use. They're cheaper than the brass traps and easier to snake since they are two piece.


----------



## Debo22

Snowyman800 said:


> And one of the pieces I actually used and installed. It did definitely take longer than using a braided supply but it does definitely look better and more professional. I was satisfied with the finished product. Of course it does take a little longer to do, I think even if I got fast at it, and it's right about the same price as using a braided supply line, so I can see why it's difficult to compete against the braided lines. I do like what the one guy said, giving the homeowner a choice and seeing what they want to do. Sorry one guy, forgot your name.


What did you use to lock the 1/2" nut onto the supply line?


----------



## Snowyman800

Debo22 said:


> What did you use to lock the 1/2" nut onto the supply line?


1/2" nut, friction ring, cone washer, and a slight flare on the end of the pipe.


----------



## Debo22

Snowyman800 said:


> 1/2" nut, friction ring, cone washer, and a slight flare on the end of the pipe.


Try one of these tools, puts a perfect bead for the friction ring


----------



## Snowyman800

Debo22 said:


> Try one of these tools, puts a perfect bead for the friction ring


Oh, man. A new tool to buy. What's it called?


----------



## Debo22

The guy who taught me 20 years ago called it by the manufacturer name lockridge tool, might not be the technical term though


----------



## Debo22

Snowyman800 said:


> Oh, man. A new tool to buy. What's it called?


http://www.plumbingzone.com/f10/beading-tool-lockridge-tool-25403/


----------



## Snowyman800

Debo22 said:


> The guy who taught me 20 years ago called it by the manufacturer name lockridge tool, might not be the technical term though


Time to go pawn shop hunting. It doesn't seem to show up anywhere online to buy. Closet thing I saw was this. Seems to be the same thing, though. And it's only $35. It doesn't have a handle like the other ones, so you'd have to use something else to turn it.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

I have used thousands of compression stops and never had one come off, they make a much cleaner finish and no burned walls....you said the magic word ( homeowner) ..thats what went wrong..LOL


----------



## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I have used thousands of compression stops and never had one come off, they make a much cleaner finish and no burned walls....you said the magic word ( homeowner) ..thats what went wrong..LOL


I had a helper one time not put them on tight and they didn't blow off. He was standing in the bathroom when I turned the water on. Told me it was good so I hung up the phone and went inside the house. As soon as I walked into the bedroom I could hear the water hissing. I guess he didn't actually look under the cabinet or couldn't hear the water, which was rather loud. The nuts on the stop weren't that tight and I could still move them by hand. Cinched them up nice and tight and no leaks. As long as you get the ferrel to bite in, I think they're pretty good. Because when you replace the stop, you normally can't just pull that ferrel off.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Snowyman800 said:


> I had a helper one time not put them on tight and they didn't blow off. He was standing in the bathroom when I turned the water on. Told me it was good so I hung up the phone and went inside the house. As soon as I walked into the bedroom I could hear the water hissing. I guess he didn't actually look under the cabinet or couldn't hear the water, which was rather loud. The nuts on the stop weren't that tight and I could still move them by hand. Cinched them up nice and tight and no leaks. As long as you get the ferrel to bite in, I think they're pretty good. Because when you replace the stop, you normally can't just pull that ferrel off.


they make several tools, not that expensive to remove the old nut and ferrel... http://www.amazon.com/Superior-Tool...&sr=8-1&keywords=ferrel+removal+tool+plumbing


----------



## sparky

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> they make several tools, not that expensive to remove the old nut and ferrel... http://www.amazon.com/Superior-Tool...&sr=8-1&keywords=ferrel+removal+tool+plumbing


I use a hacksaw blade or a dremel tool to cut Ferrels off,never had a problem


----------



## Debo22

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Good tools are not an expense....They are an investment that will make you money....I would have made the chrome valves tighter, so you dont see any copper, or tin the stub before pulling on the stops..otherwise very nice job...


Downside with installing the valves tighter to the wall is idiots like me tend to over tighten them and crush the stub out a bit, nice to leave a little meat for the next guy. Since I bought the rigid one stop wrench I don't think I have the leverage to overdo it.


----------



## sparky

Debo22 said:


> Downside with installing the valves tighter to the wall is idiots like me tend to over tighten them and crush the stub out a bit, nice to leave a little meat for the next guy. Since I bought the rigid one stop wrench I don't think I have the leverage to overdo it.


I like to take pipe dope and put inside the 5/8" nut and then tork the nut down on the ferrel,I never hear that sqeeeeek squeeeeek that you get when you don't use any pipe dope


----------



## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> they make several tools, not that expensive to remove the old nut and ferrel





sparky said:


> I use a hacksaw blade or a dremel tool to cut Ferrels off,never had a problem


I've seen the tool for busting the ferrel. I've just never gotten around to buying one. I only meant that you can't PULL them off, so the chances of them blowing off are slim and most likely installer error. Usually if there's enough room I'll cut the copper line just behind the ferrel and install all new stuff. If there isn't, I'll sand the copper and ferrel down nice and shiny and reuse it like that. As far as removing ferrels go, though, you've never had problems with it holding? If you get the compression stops tights, it leaves a little groove in the copper where it was sitting. That little groove doesn't interfere with the seal? And the other thing I've noticed is that newer angle stops don't sit as far back on the copper line as older ones, like maybe an 1/8" or a little less, but to the point where I can notice it's not butted up tight against the ferrel like it should be. So then if you bust the ferrel off and install a new stop, the new ferrel will end up maybe halfway on rigid copper and the groove from the old ferrel. Maybe. That's the way it works in my head and why I haven't really gotten around to buying the tool mentioned earlier for it. But if you've never had any problems with the things I wasn't sure about, then I guess it's time for another tool!


----------



## Snowyman800

Debo22 said:


> Downside with installing the valves tighter to the wall is idiots like me tend to over tighten them and crush the stub out a bit, nice to leave a little meat for the next guy. Since I bought the rigid one stop wrench I don't think I have the leverage to overdo it.


One-stop Ridgid!! I used to use a 6" crescent wrench for the compression nut and a 12" crescent wrench for the stop. The 12" had long enough jaws to reach down the 3/8" compression side down to the actual stop itself so I could tighten it like that and be able to keep the stop pointed up. It worked for me, until I bought a one-stop wrench. Incredibly simple but works ridiculously well.


----------



## Snowyman800

sparky said:


> I like to take pipe dope and put inside the 5/8" nut and then tork the nut down on the ferrel,I never hear that sqeeeeek squeeeeek that you get when you don't use any pipe dope


I was always taught to take some silicone grease and do the same thing. I like to put a touch inside the stop, on the copper pipe, and ferrel. Thin enough to not interfere with a seal but makes it slide together smoothly. I HEARD from another guy who does commercial plumbing that at the company he works for a bunch of guys put pipe dope on the angle stops for the compression nut and they failed, causing a lot of water damage costing a lot of money. When it came time for insurance, they tried to say it was installer error and wouldn't pay out. Looked at Brasscraft's website just now and checked out their installation instructions. They say you can use a thread sealant on the threads of the angle stop but not to use an excessive amount or to get it on the ferrel. So perhaps that's what happened with those other guys. But the guy who told me felt strongly enough about the matter that when we were doing some volunteer work, he made some other guys who did put pipe dope on their angle stops to remove them, clean them, and use silicone grease instead. It seems to me you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. This guy is also highly opinionated and knows everything there is to possibly know about anything. In case you forget, he'll remind you. ☺ He's probably been in the trade longer or at least close to as long as I've been alive, though. So he knows his trade, seem very skilled at it from what I've seen, and is passionate about it. I guess that's what counts in the end.


----------



## rwh

Snowyman800 said:


> ShtRnsdownhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have used thousands of compression stops and never had one come off, they make a much cleaner finish and no burned walls....you said the magic word ( homeowner) ..thats what went wrong..LOL
> 
> 
> 
> I had a helper one time not put them on tight and they didn't blow off. He was standing in the bathroom when I turned the water on. Told me it was good so I hung up the phone and went inside the house. As soon as I walked into the bedroom I could hear the water hissing. I guess he didn't actually look under the cabinet or couldn't hear the water, which was rather loud. The nuts on the stop weren't that tight and I could still move them by hand. Cinched them up nice and tight and no leaks. As long as you get the ferrel to bite in, I think they're pretty good. Because when you replace the stop, you normally can't just pull that ferrel off.
Click to expand...


The guy is right. Pipe dope is for tapered pipe threads. Plumbers grease is for stops, compression nuts, slip nuts, cartridges, etc.


----------



## sparky

rwh said:


> The guy is right. Pipe dope is for tapered pipe threads. Plumbers grease is for stops, compression nuts, slip nuts, cartridges, etc.


I put pipe dope on inside thread of the big 5/8" nut and never had one blow off yet,I never get any dope on the Ferrels tho,leave them dry


----------



## sparky

:yes:


rwh said:


> The guy is right. Pipe dope is for tapered pipe threads. Plumbers grease is for stops, compression nuts, slip nuts, cartridges, etc.[/quote


----------



## plumbdrum

I'm leaving this topic on compression valves alone . The last time I gave my opinion almost the whole forum jumped down my throat....... Ah screw it, compression stops are for amateurs , professional plumbers solder their valves on..


----------



## Snowyman800

sparky said:


> I put pipe dope on inside thread of the big 5/8" nut and never had one blow off yet,I never get any dope on the Ferrels tho,leave them dry


I doubt a little pipe dope will make a compression stop blow off. Brasscraft is a little ambiguous on the subject of a "thread sealant", which is basically what pipe dope is. It's probably not clearly defined so they can throw all blame on the installer, regardless of what you use. So we'll have to start soldering our angle stops in. Or just stop using angle stops all together and use 1/2"x3/8" sweat 90°'s and solder those suckers in. And tin the stub outs.


----------



## Snowyman800

plumbdrum said:


> I'm leaving this topic on compression valves alone . The last time I gave my opinion almost the whole forum jumped down my throat....... Ah screw it, compression stops are for amateurs , professional plumbers solder their valves on..


I hand drive my 16 penny nails, does that make me a professional framer?!? Even for all my slide bar backing, shower valve backing, the walls we mount our tankless water heaters to in attics, and just in general. But it's only with a baby 12" handle 16 OZ smooth face hammer. Perhaps once I up to a 14" handle 28 OZ mill face hammer I'll be rolling with the big boys. Then they won't laugh at me and call me an amateur. I just don't like screws, they have a tendency to split wood and don't let you move them around as much nails. You try to straighten out some backing with screws you're likely to break the screw. But maybe that's just me. Nails have a little give and you can fudge things a bit. Then knock another nail in once you're done and you're good to go. I'll stick with the tried and true nail. Screws are for the amateur. I often see stripped out heads so you can't remove it and I think, if only they had used a nail like a professional. Tisk, Tisk.


----------



## Snowyman800

plumbdrum said:


> I'm leaving this topic on compression valves alone . The last time I gave my opinion almost the whole forum jumped down my throat....... Ah screw it, compression stops are for amateurs , professional plumbers solder their valves on..


Maybe once I'm the real deal I'll start soldering my stops on. We don't even stock those on our trucks. My soldering is not very pretty so I'd have to practice a lot before I'd leave it exposed in such a way where everybody can see it. One day. I can only hope to be as good as a some of the work I've seen on here. It is definitely an art.


----------



## Toli

I don't use dope on compression joints. I only use Teflon tape. 10-12 wraps for good measure.


----------



## plumbdrum

Just use these.


----------



## sparky

plumbdrum said:


> Just use these.
> 
> View attachment 78825


Nawwww,to expensive:laughing::laughing::yes::yes:


----------



## Snowyman800

So in this grand discussion of compression vs. sweat stops, we set a massive external shower valve today. We had 3/4" copper kickouts since that's what they specs called for. I was under the impression it was a sweat union or something similar that would attach to the kickouts. Considering this, and how ridiculously expensive it must have been, I let my boss take lead on this since, like I said previously, my soldering skills are not my finest point in appearance. We unpack it from the 6' crate it came shipped in and see it actually uses 3/4" compression nuts and ferrels to attach the valve to the kickouts. I found it amusing considering the discussion on the matter over the past few days. And I wanted to show off the shiny new fixture.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> I'm leaving this topic on compression valves alone . The last time I gave my opinion almost the whole forum jumped down my throat....... Ah screw it, compression stops are for amateurs , professional plumbers solder their valves on..


yeah you shoulda left this topic alone...those are the kindest words I can come up with..just out of curiosity, when was the last time you swung some wrenches in the trenches and got dirty??..:whistling2: if you know what your doing you can make anything work..


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> yeah you shoulda left this topic alone...those are the kindest words I can come up with..just out of curiosity, when was the last time you swung some wrenches in the trenches and got dirty??..:whistling2: if you know what your doing you can make anything work..



Well if you really want to know my plumbing history/experience, 25 years in the trade ( trenches) it's only been 4 years since I closed up shop to become a full time inspector. The last full week in the trench was a year ago I took a week off to help a friend do a 6 bath house. Why doe it even matter though? I just stated my opinion on compression valves.


----------



## plumbdrum

My opinion on compression valves are that anyone can tighten up a compression, not everyone can solder. The chances of a soldered valve failing at the connection is slim, a compression connection could fail. When you drag a torch on a job you look like a plumber/professional and can justify your cost. When you walk into a job with a compression valve and 2 wrenches it looks like a homeowner/amateur and anyone can do it. Sell yourself as a plumber not a handyman. But hey if it's working for ya go for it. This is a topic that I stated my opinion on in another post and got my head chewed off ( like I care) , just my opinion.


----------



## GREENPLUM

plumbdrum said:


> , just my opinion.


Well you do know what they say about opinions right?

I offer them for sale but nobody buys them. They cost more to install


----------



## plumbdrum

The other option would be drop ear female 90 in the wall with chrome nipple, escutcheon and ips valve. Old school method that I still see being implemented in hospitals.


----------



## plumbdrum

GREENPLUM said:


> Well you do know what they say about opinions right? I offer them for sale but nobody buys them. They cost more to install


They always stink, just like excuses.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> Well if you really want to know my plumbing history/experience, 25 years in the trade ( trenches) it's only been 4 years since I closed up shop to become a full time inspector. The last full week in the trench was a year ago I took a week off to help a friend do a 6 bath house. Why doe it even matter though? I just stated my opinion on compression valves.


many times those that think they are above the working man have higher opinions of themselves..and what they say is law...not saying this is the case..but using compression stops doesnt make one NON professional...thats all...


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> They always stink, just like excuses.


opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has them and they all stink...


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> The other option would be drop ear female 90 in the wall with chrome nipple, escutcheon and ips valve. Old school method that I still see being implemented in hospitals.


too time consuming and expensive, the cost the customer wants to incur sorta dictates what valves get installed...if its in the plans and speced out ill price accordingly and install what they want..


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> many times those that think they are above the working man have higher opinions of themselves..and what they say is law...not saying this is the case..but using compression stops doesnt make one NON professional...thats all...


I certainly do have a higher opinion about myself, but do not think I'm above anyone. I got hired to all the positions I have including teaching because of my skill and knowledge of one of the most strictest codes in the country.i paid my dues in the field from large commercial/industrial jobs to service and drain work. I am a working man, always will be and I will go to bat for any plumber I get involved with.that being said I will say what I tell all plumbers in my state, our license at the top say the division of license professionals, make your work look like your license says. Just because you decided to use a compression valve does not make you an amateur for the rest of your work, just that particular part of the job IN. MY OPINION. Keep doing what YOU do if it works for whoever reads this.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill




----------



## Qplumb

I must be a real amateur, I install PVC not cast iron, copper or pex not galvanized. 
There are always going to be people who don't see value in what we do no matter how we do it, I choose not to work for those people and I still never have a slow day.


----------



## Qplumb

All joking aside I think we all know not anyone can install a compression stop. I've walked in on some diy,er catastrophes, and when I installed that compression stop like a rock star they paid me whatever I wanted


----------



## Snowyman800

Qplumb said:


> I must be a real amateur, I install PVC not cast iron, copper or pex not galvanized.There are always going to be people who don't see value in what we do no matter how we do it, I choose not to work for those people and I still never have a slow day.


There it is, the truth. As shiny as copper kickouts are, and between the great debate of compression against sweat stops, none of it is relevant when you're doing a job where they don't want to spend the extra money on it. So then we come to deciding between PEX or Wirsbo. Or for the ambitious, SHARKBITE. Oh, wait. I forgot. For the super ambitious, you've still got compression to consider. Ran into that the other day.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> I certainly do have a higher opinion about myself, but do not think I'm above anyone. I got hired to all the positions I have including teaching because of my skill and knowledge of one of the most strictest codes in the country.i paid my dues in the field from large commercial/industrial jobs to service and drain work. I am a working man, always will be and I will go to bat for any plumber I get involved with.that being said I will say what I tell all plumbers in my state, our license at the top say the division of license professionals, make your work look like your license says. Just because you decided to use a compression valve does not make you an amateur for the rest of your work, just that particular part of the job IN. MY OPINION. Keep doing what YOU do if it works for whoever reads this.


that thinking is outdated..so by your opinion anyone using tightseal gaskets on hubbed cast iron and not oakum and lead is an amateur or not showing true workmanship? because they dont know how to pour a lead joint.. by your standards...times change and so do the materials on the market, just because one perceives them to be used by less skill is not always the case...maybe people dont want to see you light up a torch in their $1000 custom vanity or want to smell the burning flux or smoke in their finished bathroom or kitchen..


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> that thinking is outdated..so by your opinion anyone using tightseal gaskets on hubbed cast iron and not oakum and lead is an amateur or not showing true workmanship? because they dont know how to pour a lead joint.. by your standards...times change and so do the materials on the market, just because one perceives them to be used by less skill is not always the case...maybe people dont want to see you light up a torch in their $1000 custom vanity or want to smell the burning flux or smoke in their finished bathroom or kitchen..


Boy you love to blow things way out of context. A compression connection is in no way a new way or material. As far a resilient gaskets on CI I have no problem with it because it holds and not under pressure except for testing purposes. Back to the compression, the smell of flux will go away, it's sucks to clean up gallons of water from a compression failure. This trade is getting dumbed down more and more everyday, gents please don't contribute any more to it.


----------



## plumbdrum

God this is almost as bad as my 1 step glue debate with moonboy.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> Boy you love to blow things way out of context. A compression connection is in no way a new way or material. As far a resilient gaskets on CI I have no problem with it because it holds and not under pressure except for testing purposes. Back to the compression, the smell of flux will go away, it's sucks to clean up gallons of water from a compression failure. This trade is getting dumbed down more and more everyday, gents please don't contribute any more to it.


nothing is getting blown out of proportion...you made a statement that if compression stops are used it makes the plumber look non professional or takes no skill to install... your wrong on that comment and even made a joke you would get crap for it..so here is the crap your referring to.. you keep coming back for more...:yes: and its nothing personal...


----------



## plumbdrum

Snowyman800 said:


> There it is, the truth. As shiny as copper kickouts are, and between the great debate of compression against sweat stops, none of it is relevant when you're doing a job where they don't want to spend the extra money on it. So then we come to deciding between PEX or Wirsbo. Or for the ambitious, SHARKBITE. Oh, wait. I forgot. For the super ambitious, you've still got compression to consider. Ran into that the other day.


You do realize that each pex manufacture offers their own valve compatible with their joining method without having to use compression . You can even get 5/8" chrome covering tubes for it also.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> God this is almost as bad as my 1 step glue debate with moonboy.


I guess when you insult the intelligence of a group of professionals and talk down like we dont know what were doing , your going to get some backlash..."This trade is getting dumbed down more and more everyday, gents please don't contribute any more to it." so installing compression stops contributes to this???


----------



## Snowyman800

plumbdrum said:


> You do realize that each pex manufacture offers their own valve compatible with their joining method without having to use compression . You can even get 5/8" chrome covering tubes for it also.


Me, no. I don't do compression. I do EXPANSION. Uponor.


----------



## Snowyman800

But I should look into the chrome covers for PEX.


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I guess when you insult the intelligence of a group of professionals and talk down like we dont know what were doing , your going to get some backlash..."This trade is getting dumbed down more and more everyday, gents please don't contribute any more to it." so installing compression stops contributes to this???


Unfortunately you have not been on the forum long enough to understand my point of the one step comment, I'll give you that. In general, that last 10-15 years of this trade has been dumbed down by products, like pex and csst. If your ok with that that's fine. I'm bored with this topic so I'm going back to work. Maybe I'll go fail someone for poor workmanship . 


Peace out brown trout


----------



## plumbdrum

Snowyman800 said:


> Me, no. I don't do compression. I do EXPANSION. Uponor.


So why use on copper??


----------



## 89plumbum

Do you think you guys could keep this going until later tonight? I have to stop and pick up some more popcorn on the way home?.


----------



## Qplumb

plumbdrum said:


> Unfortunately you have not been on the forum long enough to understand my point of the one step comment, I'll give you that. In general, that last 10-15 years of this trade has been dumbed down by products, like pex and csst. If your ok with that that's fine. I'm bored with this topic so I'm going back to work. Maybe I'll go fail someone for poor workmanship .
> 
> 
> Peace out brown trout


When I was 17 I went with my dad th the wirsbo factory in Minnesota for a 4 day training. After seeing the tests they do side by side with copper, cpvc and other brands of pex there is no doubt in my mind that wirsbo pex is the superior pipe. 
I don't think products that make our jobs easier are necessarily dumbing down the trade. Some, maybe but not all in fact some are superior to what we had. Copper is actually easier to make look nice, it takes some skill to do a pretty pex job.
Work smarter not harder.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> Unfortunately you have not been on the forum long enough to understand my point of the one step comment, I'll give you that. In general, that last 10-15 years of this trade has been dumbed down by products, like pex and csst. If your ok with that that's fine. I'm bored with this topic so I'm going back to work. Maybe I'll go fail someone for poor workmanship .
> 
> 
> Peace out brown trout


ok, so because you cant use certain products or dont want to( maybe thats why you closed up shop and took a job with a paycheck each week and not have to deal with the industry), you consider them a dump on the plumbing industry..? Im not a fan of csst and use only once in a while where trying to run steel pipe is almost impossible, but a product properly used and installed is not bringing down the plumbing industry..so we will leave it at ..we can agree to disagree...if you remember years back when flexible supplies came out and everyone cried it will look like homeowner did it,( the code didnt even approve it) until many plumbers realized they worked very well, I still use solid copper or chrome supplies , been doing so for 30 + years so its second nature...im sure there is a long list of plumbing materials and practices that can become ..lets say a healthy debate on ...


----------



## plumbdrum

Wow I struck a nerve with you, guilty conscience I'm guessing??


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> Wow I struck a nerve with you, guilty conscience I'm guessing??


nope not at all..ive installed thousands of sweat and thousands of compression speedy valves.....no failures on either..but when people make statements they cant back up then debate the point I get a little pissy..just like the homeowner telling a plumber..all you have todo is this.............but I did go out and get a large bag of popcorn...


----------



## plumbdrum

What you don't understand is that you can't back up opinion, that's why it's an opinion. This is why I said the last time I brought this up it turned into exactly the same conversation. It is my opinion. And I am entitled to it. If I did an inspection and compression was installed I would pass it. Again opinion. How far do you want to take this ? I don't usually have to debate with people , that's not what I do for a living. Never said the install was wrong


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> What you don't understand is that you can't back up opinion, that's why it's an opinion. This is why I said the last time I brought this up it turned into exactly the same conversation. It is my opinion. And I am entitled to it. If I did an inspection and compression was installed I would pass it. Again opinion. How far do you want to take this ? I don't usually have to debate with people , that's not what I do for a living. Never said the install was wrong


never mind, lets just move on......


----------



## Snowyman800

Right. Sharkbites are the way of the future anyways.


----------



## moonapprentice

plumbdrum said:


> God this is almost as bad as my 1 step glue debate with moonboy.


Not even close to it! ☺


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

moonapprentice said:


> Not even close to it! ☺


youll have to give me the link to that thread for catching up on some interesting reading...:clap:


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> youll have to give me the link to that thread for catching up on some interesting reading...:clap:


I think even you and I could agree on this topic


----------



## GREENPLUM

Snowyman800 said:


> Me, no. I don't do compression. I do EXPANSION. Uponor.


What do they look like? Pics or you don't use them


----------



## GREENPLUM

Inspectors inspect cause they failed at running a company/plumbing.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> I think even you and I could agree on this topic


do you have the thread?


----------



## plumbdrum

GREENPLUM said:


> Inspectors inspect cause they failed at running a company/plumbing.


 Um, no.i decided after almost 14 years that I was burnt out. I have more time off, sick days coming out of my ears, and a pension. Sounds like a winner to me.


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> do you have the thread?


 look up groundwork 101


----------



## GREENPLUM

plumbdrum said:


> Um, no.i decided after almost 14 years that I was burnt out. I have more time off, sick days coming out of my ears, and a pension. Sounds like a winner to me.


That was just my opinion, not directly ment for you...... but if the shoe fits....

I do believe that Sweat stops and ridgid supplies are more professional than crimp/compression stops & ss flexible/pex supplies

I've seen handyman installing only compression, only pros installing crimp/compression and nobody is installing sweat


----------



## Snowyman800

GREENPLUM said:


> What do they look like? Pics or you don't use them


I shall post pictures on Monday when I see the work truck again if you want. We have 2 brands we use, Brasscraft for the regular stuff, and Dahl for the more expensive stuff. It's true for whatever style of angle/straight stop for us. I guess the Dahl stops are considerably more expensive. They definitely are heavier and feel more solid.


----------



## Snowyman800

plumbdrum said:


> So why use on copper??


By the way, I didn't really understand what you meant by this.


----------



## GREENPLUM

Snowyman800 said:


> I shall post pictures on Monday when I see the work truck again if you want. We have 2 brands we use, Brasscraft for the regular stuff, and Dahl for the more expensive stuff. It's true for whatever style of angle/straight stop for us. I guess the Dahl stops are considerably more expensive. They definitely are heavier and feel more solid.


I just need to see the shut-off valve installed. Thank you

And yes you guessed correctly, Dahl valves cost the most but the quality is top notch


----------



## Snowyman800

GREENPLUM said:


> I just need to see the shut-off valve installed. Thank you
> 
> And yes you guessed correctly, Dahl valves cost the most but the quality is top notch


Here you go, I have this one. These are Dahl stops.


----------



## GREENPLUM

Nice stops! But the butcher job on the cabinet 

Looks like they won't be very accessible


----------



## Snowyman800

GREENPLUM said:


> Nice stops! But the butcher job on the cabinet


Well, I'm no carpenter. That was all those guys.


----------



## GREENPLUM

Hoping you used these, i wanted to see these finished out


----------



## GREENPLUM

This kind


----------



## Debo22

GREENPLUM said:


> Nice stops! But the butcher job on the cabinet
> 
> Looks like they won't be very accessible


Those are clean cuts, comparatively speaking


----------



## plbgbiz

plumbdrum said:


> ...Ah screw it, compression stops are for amateurs , professional plumbers solder their valves on..


 Ah screw it...that's just pure BS.


----------



## bct p&h

Glad I said something about the compression stops haha it's got to be more of a regional thing because you never see them around here. I wouldn't put them in my house so I wouldn't think of putting them in someone else's.
If you use them you're a hack and should be trolling for business in the plumbing aisle of home depot. Might as well burn your license with the torch you're not using on your stops


----------



## plbgbiz

I keep my sweat stops in the box next to my yarning iron.


----------



## Snowyman800

bct p&h said:


> Glad I said something about the compression stops haha it's got to be more of a regional thing because you never see them around here. I wouldn't put them in my house so I wouldn't think of putting them in someone else's.
> If you use them you're a hack and should be trolling for business in the plumbing aisle of home depot. Might as well burn your license with the torch you're not using on your stops


Whoa, whoa. I still use my torch, to tin the stubouts on my compression stops.


----------



## Debo22

bct p&h said:


> Glad I said something about the compression stops haha it's got to be more of a regional thing because you never see them around here. I wouldn't put them in my house so I wouldn't think of putting them in someone else's.
> If you use them you're a hack and should be trolling for business in the plumbing aisle of home depot. Might as well burn your license with the torch you're not using on your stops


20+ years in the industry and have never come across a sweat stop or seen one at a supply house


----------



## Qplumb

I thought this was the correct way


----------



## GREENPLUM

Old skool


----------



## plbgbiz

Debo22 said:


> 20+ years in the industry and have never come across a sweat stop or seen one at a supply house


Yep. My point exactly.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> look up groundwork 101


I did a few searches , couldnt find the thread...


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Snowyman800 said:


> Here you go, I have this one. These are Dahl stops.


why didnt you just run 1/2 pex for hot and cold into the cabinet (nice n clean) and put all those fittings and cuts in the floor?


----------



## plumbdrum

bct p&h said:


> Glad I said something about the compression stops haha it's got to be more of a regional thing because you never see them around here. I wouldn't put them in my house so I wouldn't think of putting them in someone else's. If you use them you're a hack and should be trolling for business in the plumbing aisle of home depot. Might as well burn your license with the torch you're not using on your stops


I guess it's us MA boys that will have to hold the standards up. I notice all the comments come from the IPC land, the worst code possible.


----------



## plumbdrum

Snowyman800 said:


> Here you go, I have this one. These are Dahl stops.


Change gears, looks like an AAV is in the future for this cabinet. Di I need to say anymore?


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> I guess it's us MA boys that will have to hold the standards up. I notice all the comments come from the IPC land, the worst code possible.


well..by your own words you couldnt handle being in business and doing the actual work , so I commend you for knowing your limitations..I still go by the theory..teachers teach because they cant do it....:thumbup:


----------



## plbgbiz

plumbdrum said:


> I guess it's us MA boys that will have to hold the standards up. I notice all the comments come from the IPC land, the worst code possible.


...


----------



## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> why didnt you just run 1/2 pex for hot and cold into the cabinet (nice n clean) and put all those fittings and cuts in the floor?


It was a slab floor and there wasn't any dead space in the island between cabinets to run everything. So that's what it was.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

Snowyman800 said:


> It was a slab floor and there wasn't any dead space in the island between cabinets to run everything. So that's what it was.


gotcha..


----------



## Snowyman800

plumbdrum said:


> Change gears, looks like an AAV is in the future for this cabinet. Di I need to say anymore?


Bam. It's a kitchen island, so yes that 2" that mysteriously disappears into the top of the cabinet does go to an AAV.  We didn't do the ground job on this house, it was a different company. We only came in for top out and finals. True story.


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> well..by your own words you couldnt handle being in business and doing the actual work , so I commend you for knowing your limitations..I still go by the theory..teachers teach because they cant do it....:thumbup: Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0


Again, PENSION. I can still work ,I'm only 41. I could still out plumb most on here.


----------



## GREENPLUM

Only 41!!! , I thought you were 81


----------



## plumbdrum

GREENPLUM said:


> Only 41!!! , I thought you were 81


I'm an old soul


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> I'm an old soul


better call soul..oh wait thats saul.....lol


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> better call soul..oh wait thats saul.....lol


Great show!!!!!


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

boy this thread got derailed like a freight train outa control......


----------



## plumbdrum

I've got all day, so keep it coming. Lol, well at least till 8 pm, I've got a gig


----------



## GREENPLUM

UT oh


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> I've got all day, so keep it coming. Lol, well at least till 8 pm, I've got a gig


I forgot who asked to keep it going and who got a new bag of popcorn...well this gota beat the kardashian BS.....


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

GREENPLUM said:


> UT oh


yup this must be one of the new materials bringing down the plumbing trade...but standing on toxic lead pans that leech into the tile and grout while showering must be better...and the plumber getting lead poisoning from banging out a lead pan( done plenty myself)..


----------



## plumbdrum

I'm ok with that liner, it's solvent welded, not a compression connection.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> Great show!!!!!


got them on DVD....


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> I'm ok with that liner, it's solvent welded, not a compression connection.


the strainer seals by compressing the liner...?


----------



## plumbdrum

Yes but I always solvent welded the pvc liner to the drain. So is it ???????


----------



## plumbdrum

And also there isn't 60 psi behind that compression connection is there?


----------



## GREENPLUM

Bad time in plumbing


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> And also there isn't 60 psi behind that compression connection is there?


depends how big the person standing in the shower is....how many lead pans have you done?


----------



## plumbdrum

Honestly, none. It was always copper pans.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> Honestly, none. It was always copper pans.


again, that must be a regional thing..never ripped out a copper pan in my area.., just old lead ones..


----------



## plumbdrum

I have ripped out lead, and have lead soldered just not a pan.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

must go through a box of bandaids trying to work with copper making a pan..no problems with cracking on the bent seams?


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> must go through a box of bandaids trying to work with copper making a pan..no problems with cracking on the bent seams?


Not that I've ever seen, it was always filled with after for a test.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> Not that I've ever seen, it was always filled with after for a test.


found the infamous *Groundwork 101 
thread, had to open a new bag of potato chips..on page 10 of 20ish..
Ahh, made it to the end...and nothing about compression stops???
I use purple primer as to code, years back you didnt have to, but the inspectors caught too many guys not priming, so its hard not to see purple.to moonapprentice- I have worked for many plumbers before my own business and learned alot, you learn both the right way and the wrong way sometimes and its up to you to pick what way you want to go..if something is in code and allowed and local inspectors are on board with it, then I would consider that as the right way, but I also consider the manufactures instructions on installation for possible issues down the road..there will always be ones interpretation of code and how to do something and disagreements on who is right, when you work for someone you are bound to do what the boss wants, he in the end is responsible for the job, when on your own..you are responsible...do what you can live with and be able to back up what you do when the $hit hits the fan, if the hair on the back of your neck says dont do it..dont... .and why this bold print dont know..lol
*


----------



## plumbdrum

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> found the infamous Groundwork 101 thread, had to open a new bag of potato chips..on page 10 of 20ish.. Ahh, made it to the end...and nothing about compression stops??? I use purple primer as to code, years back you didnt have to, but the inspectors caught too many guys not priming, so its hard not to see purple.to moonapprentice- I have worked for many plumbers before my own business and learned alot, you learn both the right way and the wrong way sometimes and its up to you to pick what way you want to go..if something is in code and allowed and local inspectors are on board with it, then I would consider that as the right way, but I also consider the manufactures instructions on installation for possible issues down the road..there will always be ones interpretation of code and how to do something and disagreements on who is right, when you work for someone you are bound to do what the boss wants, he in the end is responsible for the job, when on your own..you are responsible...do what you can live with and be able to back up what you do when the $hit hits the fan, if the hair on the back of your neck says dont do it..dont... .and why this bold print dont know..lol


It was ever about compression stops. Just a long winded debate.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> It was ever about compression stops. Just a long winded debate.


which debate..the glue with moonapprentice( I just added the compression stop comment on that one for $hits n giggles) LOL or the one one on this thread?


----------



## Qplumb

The cover of march plumber magazine has sweat stops being installed. Is that you on there Plumbdrum?


----------



## plumbdrum

Qplumb said:


> The cover of march plumber magazine has sweat stops being installed. Is that you on there Plumbdrum?


Not me, but one smart plumber though.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill

plumbdrum said:


> Not me, but one smart plumber though.


In your opinion , of course.............:laughing:


----------

