# Noisy watermain



## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

I went to a house today, the watermain makes a chugging sound. When I saw it I could see that it originates before main shut off and PRV. The sound and pattern of the noise sounds like bubbles are going through the main. I went outside where the curb stop and water meter are, because of all the rain, the meter was submerged in the box. I could hear that the sound is also at the meter along with a vibration. I am leaning toward the meter that is the cause of the sound. Have you guys ever run into something breaking off in the meter causing noise/vibration or bubbles in the main where it enters the house? As far as I know the owner hasnt said anything different about the cost of the water usage. 

The noise can be mimicked, but it doesnt happen all the time. The meter is a 90 degree style, not a straight style if that helps at all. Also it being the meter on the city side, I believe the city is responsible. The house is 8 yrs old, run in pex. 

Any idea's or input would be appreciated.


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## ken53 (Mar 1, 2011)

How close is the pumping station it can be a problem if it's close.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Possibly there's a hole in the pipe/valve.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

The meter from the main in the mech room is probably 40ft. 

If there is a leak, wouldnt you notice water bubbling from the ground/pavement since its a pressurized system?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I had a noise complaint a year or two ago. The whole house would randomly moan and knock from the basement to the second floor. We went there three or four times trying to figure it out. We booked a repipe from copper to pex. The day before we were to do the job the HO called and said she thought she figured it out. The fill valve in the guest bathroom was the whole cause. Changed the flapper and fill valve, fixed it.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

AKdaplumba said:


> The meter from the main in the mech room is probably 40ft.
> 
> If there is a leak, wouldnt you notice water bubbling from the ground/pavement since its a pressurized system?


I had a similar issue 2-3 times already where you hear water running inside the house even if the main valve is closed. Turns out to be the curb stops 20-30 feet away that were pissing 8' underground. The city uses some type of stethoscope and lay it on the curb wrench to hear the noise a lot better.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

AKdaplumba said:


> ........................The noise can be mimicked, but it doesnt happen all the time. The meter is a 90 degree style, not a straight style if that helps at all. Also it being the meter on the city side, I believe the city is responsible. The house is 8 yrs old, run in pex.
> ..........


The water meters often use a ceramic plate known as a "Nutating Disc". They can break.

Around here, in several municipalities, you call and say your water meter looked at you funny and they will come asap and change it.

Have you compared their old and new water bills? If it's the meter their bill should be different.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> The water meters often use a ceramic plate known as a "Nutating Disc". They can break.
> 
> Around here, in several municipalities, you call and say your water meter looked at you funny and they will come asap and change it.
> 
> Have you compared their old and new water bills? If it's the meter their bill should be different.


I have asked bout the water bills and the owner said no change.

The water main is only 2 ft down. Seems to close to the ground but in the North West where we are, we rarely see snow. The owner says the city is coming out next week. Right now my money is on a meter replacement.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

It is your PRV had the same problem in a house in Salt Lake City, replaced it problem-solved, or like above could be 
a ball cock, or a loose washer in a angle stop, just have to check it out but because you said the noise was loudest
at the PRV that is my best guess


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> It is your PRV had the same problem in a house in Salt Lake City, replaced it problem-solved, or like above could be
> a ball cock, or a loose washer in a angle stop, just have to check it out but because you said the noise was loudest
> at the PRV that is my best guess


I had one sunday and it was a swing check on a hot water recirc. Only happened when they used hot AND cold at the u/s shower and d/s kitchen faucet at the same time. The mom couldn't do dishes while the daughter showered.

It sounds like he thinks he's narrowed down the spot to where the water enters the property. Maybe a gate valve had the gate fall from a rusted off stem? Or it could be a globe valve buried down there with the washer having fallen off. I've seen dozens of brass washer screws crumble from de-zincification.


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

skoronesa said:


> The water meters often use a ceramic plate known as a "Nutating Disc". They can break.
> 
> Around here, in several municipalities, you call and say your water meter looked at you funny and they will come asap and change it.
> 
> Have you compared their old and new water bills? If it's the meter their bill should be different.


In our town way back when they were changing out lead free on the mains, they were brining in Chinese fittings. All the lead free brass from overseas was using Bismuth. There is no give with Bismuth so all of the pipe threads were cracking and springing leaks everywhere. It was interesting to say the least.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> It is your PRV had the same problem in a house in Salt Lake City, replaced it problem-solved, or like above could be
> a ball cock, or a loose washer in a angle stop, just have to check it out but because you said the noise was loudest
> at the PRV that is my best guess


Is there a way to test the PRV without replacing it first? The reason I think its the meter is because you can feel/ see the bubble type vibration before the main shut off and the PRV. The meter and curb are so far away, I don't know if a vibration would travel so far back since the direction of flow is going toward the house. The owner said he turned up the pressure, I checked it, it is 80psi. Turning up the pressure has made no change to the noise. 

The curb stop is a 1/4 turn type where you take the screw out to put in the water key.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

AKdaplumba said:


> .........The meter and curb are so far away, I don't know if a vibration would travel so far back............


You pretty much can't compress water so sound/movement will travel very far through it. It can be difficult to locate the source because of this.

I really think you should just have them swap the meter first.

If he lowers the prv pressure and it stops than it's probably something in the house.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

AKdaplumba said:


> Is there a way to test the PRV without replacing it first? The reason I think its the meter is because you can feel/ see the bubble type vibration before the main shut off and the PRV. The meter and curb are so far away, I don't know if a vibration would travel so far back since the direction of flow is going toward the house. The owner said he turned up the pressure, I checked it, it is 80psi. Turning up the pressure has made no change to the noise.
> 
> The curb stop is a 1/4 turn type where you take the screw out to put in the water key.


Yep install a ball valve before the prv,turn it off and see if problem keeps happening


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Is there a way to pull the meter out for a couple minutes and rig up a meter blank to rule that out?


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

sparky said:


> Yep install a ball valve before the prv,turn it off and see if problem keeps happening


I was literally typing that as you posted it.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

_UPDATE_

I replaced the PRV and that is not the issue. I never mentioned before but its a PE main so it has a life check between the shut off and the PRV. So lift check, meter or something in the house? The owner says the noise happens when something is used of the left side of the house. The mech room is in the middle of the house on the main floor. At the meter when the noise happens the meter slightly vibrates and makes a clicking noise.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

AKdaplumba said:


> _UPDATE_
> 
> I replaced the PRV and that is not the issue. I never mentioned before but its a PE main so it has a life check between the shut off and the PRV. So lift check, meter or something in the house? The owner says the noise happens when something is used of the left side of the house. The mech room is in the middle of the house on the main floor. At the meter when the noise happens the meter slightly vibrates and makes a clicking noise.


Turn the meter off and connect a hose to the neighbors hose faucet and a hose faucet at the house you’re working at. 

See if you have the noise then. This would eliminate everything on the customers main.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

What am I connecting to? Hose bib to hose bib?


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

AKdaplumba said:


> What am I connecting to? Hose bib to hose bib?


Yes


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## Dontbitenails (Oct 16, 2020)

RichardBull said:


> Yes


Backflow protection, vacuum breakers ? Never work unless really old neighborhood with no updates


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Dpeckplb said:


> I was literally typing that as you posted it.


Great minds think alike lololololo


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Dontbitenails said:


> Backflow protection, vacuum breakers ? Never work unless really old neighborhood with no updates


What’s your question ?


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

My money is on the water meter. Like Skoro said, have the water department change the meter.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> What’s your question ?


He is saying hooking the two houses together through the hose spigots wouldn't work because they have back flow protection built in.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> He is saying hooking the two houses together through the hose spigots wouldn't work because they have back flow protection built in.


Find a way, you’re a plumber. That’s my answer.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

Doing a new project years back we had a batch of bad 5/8 Badger meters that thumped,ticked,and vibrated a lot from new.New meters fixed the entire problem,don't know what was really wrong with them.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Is this job complete yet ? What was the issue ?


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

RichardBull said:


> Is this job complete yet ? What was the issue ?


Yes, I fixed last night. 


It was the lift check. The lift check seems fine was I checked it but that seemed to be the problem. I am curious, what typically happens when a lift check fails? The check has no wear or anything that would show that it was the problem. As long as I don't get a call back that its happening again, I am happy. 

@ Richardbull, big thanks for the suggestion about hooking up the hose bibs, I did it and shut off the main under the check and couldn't get the noise to happen when water wasnt going through the watermain. I still wasn't convinced it was the liftcheck that the HO suggested but at that point I said what the hell, might as well try. 

Also thanks to everyone else for the responses.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

AKdaplumba said:


> .............It was the lift check. ..........


What do you mean by "lift check"? Do you mean a check valve(spring or swing) on the incoming waterline?

If they have a check valve on the incoming waterline is there an expansion tank somewhere in the system?


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

The lift check is between the shut off and PRV.

Its a spring check valve, here in BC we need it on an PE watermain. Not sure if its a typical code but that is the code in BC.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

AKdaplumba said:


> The lift check is between the shut off and PRV.
> 
> Its a spring check valve, here in BC we need it on an PE watermain. Not sure if its a typical code but that is the code in BC.


I would call that a spring check valve. Lift check seem like it doesn't describe it correctly.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

To quote Miley Cyrus 

That’s pretty cool.....


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

Tango said:


> I would call that a spring check valve. Lift check seem like it doesn't describe it correctly.


Maybe that is the lingo here in BC. That's what I always heard it called.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

AKdaplumba said:


> Maybe that is the lingo here in BC. That's what I always heard it called.


You got it fixed that all that matters move on to the next one


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