# Booster Pump Question



## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't have any experience with booster pumps. For those who have: do they require a tank? Who makes the best? Any issues on older pipes?

The incoming pressure is 25-30 psi for a duplex on a campus that has only one meter for the whole place. I believe that there are miles of 3/4 gal pipe feeding everything. 

Thanks


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Can the pump. Sell a re-pipe.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Qball415 said:


> Can the pump. Sell a re-pipe.



I gave a bid for a repipe of the duplex but the 25-30 psi is campus wide.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Gotcha. You mention miles of galvy water supply, I would worry of integrity of existing with introduction of higher pressure.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

My guess is that the galvanized pipe is corroded and has closed up. I think a pump would push crude into the fixtures.


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## rusak (Sep 20, 2008)

I've installed few Amtrol booster systems


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Goulds AquaBoost II is a great product. 

Check out the pump curve and requirements for each pump, a pump that is too big will cause cavitation and the pump will lock out if it does not have sufficient uncoming water.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> Goulds AquaBoost II is a great product.
> 
> Check out the pump curve and requirements for each pump, a pump that is too big will cause cavitation and the pump will lock out if it does not have sufficient uncoming water.


The AquaBoost II comes with its own expansion tank.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

rusak said:


> I've installed few Amtrol booster systems


Please elaborate in detail.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Are you looking for a VFD pump for constand pressure or a conventional system with a differential?

A conventional system will require a larger bladder tank for proper draw down and run time.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> Goulds AquaBoost II is a great product.
> 
> Check out the pump curve and requirements for each pump, a pump that is too big will cause cavitation and the pump will lock out if it does not have sufficient uncoming water.





AWWGH said:


> The AquaBoost II comes with its own expansion tank.





AWWGH said:


> Are you looking for a VFD pump for constand pressure or a conventional system with a differential?
> 
> A conventional system will require a larger bladder tank for proper draw down and run time.


Very good info

Aqua boost systems are great systems and come with the drive, transducer, expansion tank, and pump. 


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I was looking to put a pump in after the repipe. The pressure is poo all over, they don't want to replace the service line so if it doesn't work I was thinking about that. Do you think it will pull crud?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Install a y strainer before it and it will be fine.

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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

The first thing I would do is discover how many gallons per minute is flowing into the area you need the pump. You may want to install a regular 1/2 hp shallow well pump that delivers 6-7 gallons a minute and a pressure tank verse a booster pump. You then can set the pressure at 50/70


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> The first thing I would do is discover how many gallons per minute is flowing into the area you need the pump. You may want to install a regular 1/2 hp shallow well pump that delivers 6-7 gallons a minute and a pressure tank verse a booster pump. You then can set the pressure at 50/70


You could install a cycle stop on that j-pump for constant pressure and that could use a 4.5 gal p tank.

Would be a whole lot cheaper and easier to set up then a Vfd based pumping system. 

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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> I was looking to put a pump in after the repipe. The pressure is poo all over, they don't want to replace the service line so if it doesn't work I was thinking about that. Do you think it will pull crud?


With any sediment or debris from a galvy pipe you must be careful.

If you put a strainer before the pump you could;

On a conventional pump the strainer could plug and the pump could run dry (could use a low water pressure switch)

On a VFD you could get unnecessary lock outs on the VFD if you get low flow "loss of suction".

My recommendation would be a filter AFTER the pump/expansion tank for a safety measure. This way if you pull crap into the system your filter will catch it after the pump. Pressure gauge before and after the filter to monitor pressure drop while a demand on the system. Even if you can’t monitor at least it will be a gradual loss of pressure rather than a burned up conventional pump or unnecessary lockouts from a VFD.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> With any sediment or debris from a galvy pipe you must be careful.
> 
> If you put a strainer before the pump you could;
> 
> ...


How bout trash stopping up the inlet port on the pressure transducer? That could be just as bad.

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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> How bout trash stopping up the inlet port on the pressure transducer? That could be just as bad.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


It would have to be very fine, most would flow on by. A strainer would need constant cleaning.

That's my opinion. I generally don't put my transducers right on the cross tee that comes with the pumps. I've found the system seems to run smoother with the transducer a few feet away from the pump. That would probably also help with any sediment flowing on by cause it would not be right at the pump where all the turbulence is.

That's only my opinion. Not saying its right; I just personally don't like putting any possible obstructions in front of a suction pump or between a pump and a pressure switch/transducer on a conventional system.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

:laughing: if the whole campus has the same problem and the incoming main is only 25 psi at each complex.... what do you think will happen if you put one pump at one complex...

What do you think will happen to the pressure on all the other complexes

Once you start pumping at your location everybodyesle pressure feed off the main will drop ...

The only fix is to upgrade the water main and feeds to each building


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> :laughing: if the whole campus has the same problem and the incoming main is only 25 psi at each complex.... what do you think will happen if you put one pump at one complex...
> 
> What do you think will happen to the pressure on all the other complexes
> 
> ...


Not necessarily, if a pump is properly sized to boost pressure and not to pump 400 gpm then it would not disrupt the rest of the system.

Maybe it would lead to booster system for every building! :thumbsup:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> It would have to be very fine, most would flow on by. A strainer would need constant cleaning.
> 
> That's my opinion. I generally don't put my transducers right on the cross tee that comes with the pumps. I've found the system seems to run smoother with the transducer a few feet away from the pump. That would probably also help with any sediment flowing on by cause it would not be right at the pump where all the turbulence is.
> 
> That's only my opinion. Not saying its right; I just personally don't like putting any possible obstructions in front of a suction pump or between a pump and a pressure switch/transducer on a conventional system.


That's defintly true, one thing i see alot is galvy nipples on pressure switches rust shut and the pump will either over pressurize the system or the switch won't even close and turn the pump on. 

I think the best option would be to replace as much of the galvy as possible. 

One thing I Would also be worried about is the trash clogging up the check valve before the pump. And either jamming it open causing the system to loose pressure and the pump to constantly cycle. Or jam it shut.

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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> That's defintly true, one thing i see alot is galvy nipples on pressure switches rust shut and the pump will either over pressurize the system or the switch won't even close and turn the pump on.
> 
> I think the best option would be to replace as much of the galvy as possible.
> 
> ...


Galvy should not be allowed to be made under 1". I can't stand seeing a 1/4" pipe (a vital one which the system pretty much depends on) thats galvanized. :bangin:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> Galvy should not be allowed to be made under 1". I can't stand seeing a 1/4" pipe (a vital one which the system pretty much depends on) thats galvanized. :bangin:


I also hate seeing pressure tanks located 8 ft away from the switch causing severe pressure swings and bounce back problems. or the pre charge in the tank being to high causing the pump to short cycle then finally correct itself and fill the tank.

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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> I also hate seeing pressure tanks located 8 ft away from the switch causing severe pressure swings and bounce back problems. or the pre charge in the tank being to high causing the pump to short cycle then finally correct itself and fill the tank.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


Click Click.....Click Click....Click Click.... :laughing:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> Click Click.....Click Click....Click Click.... :laughing:


:laughing: and then seeing the gauge needle go crazy flicking around. I always laugh at that. Then seeing all the carbon build up on the switch contacts.

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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> :laughing: and then seeing the gauge needle go crazy flicking around. I always laugh at that. Then seeing all the carbon build up on the switch contacts.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


And the HO standing over your shoulder saying "It always does that...Is that bad?"


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> And the HO standing over your shoulder saying "It always does that...Is that bad?"


Lmao then they say "the water coming out of my fixtures pulse and my toilets sound weird when they fill, and my pipes are always shaking violently".

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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> :laughing: if the whole campus has the same problem and the incoming main is only 25 psi at each complex.... what do you think will happen if you put one pump at one complex...
> 
> What do you think will happen to the pressure on all the other complexes
> 
> ...



I wish they would go for that. They are pretty much "don't touch the main water lines, every time you do we end up paying for a 80' section just to find good pipe".

I'm just concerned that a repipe won't fix the issue. I'm also concerned or they are that raising pressure everywhere would give me lots on new work:laughing:


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> I wish they would go for that. They are pretty much "don't touch the main water lines, every time you do we end up paying for a 80' section just to find good pipe".
> 
> I'm just concerned that a repipe won't fix the issue. I'm also concerned or they are that raising pressure everywhere would give me lots on new work:laughing:


Could always let the existing main dump into a storage an atmospheric storage tank. Solenoid on the inlet. The draw from that. That way you would only draw from the community system as fast as it would deliver.

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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> Could always let the existing main dump into a storage an atmospheric storage tank. Solenoid on the inlet. The draw from that. That way you would only draw from the community system as fast as it would deliver.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Plumbing Zone


Great idea :thumbup: could use a kerick valve on the inlet with a float to avoid the electronics and to keep the price Down

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## engrart (Feb 12, 2012)

Just want to know ,if triplex pumpset having a suction header of 10" dia which draws its suction from a 4" dia pipe directly from a concrete water storage tank inside the pump room,is sufficient to prevent cavitation or shall I say,If there will be no problem,performance wise.
Note that this will be considered flooded suction.I am only worried in drawing pipe size of 4" supplying a 10" dia suction header

thanks to all


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

engrart said:


> Just want to know ,if triplex pumpset having a suction header of 10" dia which draws its suction from a 4" dia pipe directly from a concrete water storage tank inside the pump room,is sufficient to prevent cavitation or shall I say,If there will be no problem,performance wise.
> Note that this will be considered flooded suction.I am only worried in drawing pipe size of 4" supplying a 10" dia suction header
> 
> thanks to all


Are you a plumber ?


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> I don't have any experience with booster pumps. For those who have: do they require a tank? Who makes the best? Any issues on older pipes?
> 
> The incoming pressure is 25-30 psi for a duplex on a campus that has only one meter for the whole place. I believe that there are miles of 3/4 gal pipe feeding everything.
> 
> Thanks


Regardless of the pressure to the pipeline, the flow rate will be compromised and a pump will cause more problems. If it does work it will just dislodge the corrosion and force it into faucets valves and strainers..... Re-pipe


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

engrart said:


> Just want to know ,if triplex pumpset having a suction header of 10" dia which draws its suction from a 4" dia pipe directly from a concrete water storage tank inside the pump room,is sufficient to prevent cavitation or shall I say,If there will be no problem,performance wise.
> Note that this will be considered flooded suction.I am only worried in drawing pipe size of 4" supplying a 10" dia suction header
> 
> thanks to all


Right.

So anyway, on the booster pump issue... do you know what the cause of the lower pressure is? Is it simply elevation in respect to the water purveyors sytem but the mains are sized right? Is it a distance issue through inadequately sized supply lines? The corroded galvy is the least of your worries until the supply (quantity) issue is known.

Grundfos makes an MQ j-pump that works really well in a booster application. That, or the Goulds setup mentioned earlier should work. The Grundfos MQ is better IMO but that's just a matter of opinion.

This could either be a job that you wish you never even heard about or the job that made you the go-to guy and keeps paying over and over again. The subsequent repairs and repipes could (should) be gravy for you.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

engrart said:


> Just want to know ,if triplex pumpset having a suction header of 10" dia which draws its suction from a 4" dia pipe directly from a concrete water storage tank inside the pump room,is sufficient to prevent cavitation or shall I say,If there will be no problem,performance wise.
> Note that this will be considered flooded suction.I am only worried in drawing pipe size of 4" supplying a 10" dia suction header
> 
> thanks to all


You will have major problems with that

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