# How tight should compression fittings be



## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Ok. Cue the “tight enough to not drip” responses.

When I am installing angle stops I always feel like im really cranking down on them, and on a large job it adds a lot of time, not to mention once a week the wrench slips and busts my nuckles. I have removed some in repair jobs and they never seem that tight. How do you guys approach these things? What is tight enough. Had one blow off when I was my first year in so I think Im paranoid. 

Thanks in advance. 


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> Ok. Cue the “tight enough to not drip” responses.
> 
> When I am installing angle stops I always feel like im really cranking down on them, and on a large job it adds a lot of time, not to mention once a week the wrench slips and busts my nuckles. I have removed some in repair jobs and they never seem that tight. How do you guys approach these things? What is tight enough. Had one blow off when I was my first year in so I think Im paranoid.
> 
> ...


We use eastman valves and ive never had one blow off. But my dad has though. He used some of the import brands that the supply house provided and He tells me the story of how he tightened one down really tight once and every thing was good but while he was doing a leak check. All of a sudden she blew of because the nut cracked from overtightening. The main problem was the cheap thin brass nut. He warns me ahout overtighting them but his arms are huge and i dont think i can ever tighten them as much as he can.lain: Me and my brother benched tested some valves we had laying around and our determination was you really cant go wrong. Even if you went monkey *$%$ tight. But i like to go firm and then give it something extra (pretty much as tight as i can without going super crazy) Its hard to explain cause its kinda by feel. If she dont leak shes good:wink: 
And of course if something did leak........Just Blame it on the manufacturer:devil3:

I did have a job recently where i pulled of 2 shutoffs and the ferrels were not even bit into on the copper:surprise:. The ferrels were moving and i almost pulled one to the end of the copper. That was one where i was glad to be converting from copper to pex and going crimp on it. 

I personally obsess over did i tighten something enough or did i over tighten something. Still worries me on certain repairs. But thats why you want to leak check before leaving the job:smile:


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Check post #4 on this link, that’s what happens when you over tighten. I used to crank them down way too much. I bought the Ridgid one stop wrench and I don’t think you get enough leverage to crush the stub out but plenty enough to secure them. 

https://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/wipe-your-fittings-kids-75809/


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

I find if I buy a descent brand like brasscraft or similar its not so much of an issue, seems to bite really fast. If I buy the $2.03 ones online they need some Torque! 

Thank You guys for not making fun of me. It seemed like one of those questions I didnt ask early enough in my career and had to kind of check my pride to ask it. 


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

In our area only DIY uses compression stops. Another clue it's DIY theres always teflon tape sticking out.

Anything copper is soldered on by companies, myself included. I do carry a SB ball valve in my tool pouch when I saw the sink flood video on youtube...

I did a few compression in my lifetime and I didn't tight them all the way. I use the same principle as when I do mechanic work on trucks. Not loose, not over tight, you get a feel for it. You know too tight puts too much stress on the brass nut and a recipe for it to break. Think of it like tightening a 1/2" brass union, you don't need extra strength do you?


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

I go tight af - I’ve had em leak a few times not being tight enough and went on another guys job once to make it tight af after he had installed it, had a leak, gone back to tighten, still had leak - I went tight af, and no more leak. It bugs me to see tape/dope on the threads cause it won’t do anything to seal the brass ring - I will however put dope on the pipe under the ring and on the inside and outside of the ring.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

I also tighten them to PFT (Pretty [email protected]#[email protected] Tight) torque specs. Have never tightened one so much to snap the nut. I have noticed that since going LF, I have more of them leak and need to tighten them down more than in the past. At least one per house will leak and i have to really crank on it.

I always found it funny that the instructions on most stops usually say to "hand tighten and then 1/8th turn more with tools" ... forget about that. I tried that when I first started and had two blow off ... never again.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

I learned to put some oil,wd40, or slic tite not to seal but to lubricate
then holding the stop with a 10" crescent tighten with a 8" crescent
then you can get it just right with a 8" hard to over tighten !
never had a leak or one come loose!


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Tango said:


> In our area only DIY uses compression stops. Another clue it's DIY theres always teflon tape sticking out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




in our area only DIY used Pex


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> in our area only DIY used Pex
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow really?? All new construction in my area since 1992 used poly-B then in 1995 or so houses and high rise condos are built with pex. I"ve already started to see some sort of pro-press pex. I need to take pictures.

I've also seen Water heater installation by companies using only SB braided lines. Some other places where companies did some new piping used all pex and SB fittings. No crimps at all!

I've also seen copper transitioned to pex for only one foot under sinks and other situations. In one big box hardware store copper fittings are getting real thin and choices in 1/2" fittings are limited and so disorganized it's on it's way out.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> I learned to put some oil,wd40, or slic tite not to seal but to lubricate
> then holding the stop with a 10" crescent tighten with a 8" crescent
> then you can get it just right with a 8" hard to over tighten !
> never had a leak or one come loose!




You MUST tighten them down to where the ferruell binds good to the pipe......If you just use some pipe dope on the ferruell you will do just fine...
they are not supposed to squeal as you torque them down... The dope just lubes it all up and I have never , ever had one give me troubles..... .


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> Ok. Cue the “tight enough to not drip” responses.
> 
> When I am installing angle stops I always feel like im really cranking down on them, <snip> * I never used compression stops we always soldered on or used lug ells and nipples out of the wall. Now I must ask a question do you use compression stops on hard tubing? That was always a no/no with us on any type of compression and never use compression on gas always use flare on gas. And I always used lubricant on the fixture side of a compression stop, [pipe dope, nose grease, even soap and wax some times]. And all stops on nipples were lamp wicked. Of course I came from the old school.*


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Used pretty much nothing but compression my entire career. Not very many actually leaked from day one, but we did have what was supposedly a batch of bad brass stock for the brasscraft multi turns. They were lasting about a year when we put brass pex adapters into em, then the body of the valve would crack. The nut was just fine.

I never liked doing the pex like that ever since that started happening.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tango said:


> In our area only DIY uses compression stops. Another clue it's DIY theres always teflon tape sticking out.
> 
> Anything copper is soldered on by companies, myself included. I do carry a SB ball valve in my tool pouch when I saw the sink flood video on youtube...
> 
> I did a few compression in my lifetime and I didn't tight them all the way. I use the same principle as when I do mechanic work on trucks. Not loose, not over tight, you get a feel for it. You know too tight puts too much stress on the brass nut and a recipe for it to break. Think of it like tightening a 1/2" brass union, you don't need extra strength do you?


I don't think I've ever seen a solder angle stop. It's all compression or IP here.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Debo22 said:


> I don't think I've ever seen a solder angle stop. It's all compression or IP here.




but never on hard tubing........lol


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Tango said:


> Wow really?? All new construction in my area since 1992 used poly-B then in 1995 or so houses and high rise condos are built with pex. I"ve already started to see some sort of pro-press pex. I need to take pictures.
> 
> I've also seen Water heater installation by companies using only SB braided lines. Some other places where companies did some new piping used all pex and SB fittings. No crimps at all!
> 
> I've also seen copper transitioned to pex for only one foot under sinks and other situations. In one big box hardware store copper fittings are getting real thin and choices in 1/2" fittings are limited and so disorganized it's on it's way out.




they allow you to bury a SB in the wall? Even california which is arguably more liberal than CANADA didnt allow you to bury a mechanical fitting. 


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The only compression fittings we have are the 3/8" compression fittings that supply lines connect to. You will never see us use a 5/8" compression fitting, those are for hacks. If you can't get the water to shut off enough to solder than get a 5/8" flare adapter/coupling or a propress. There is never any situation you need a 5/8" compression fitting.

We use almost exclusively 1/2" sweat by 3/8" compression stops. We use the chrome ones with extension tubes and escutcheons if they are exposed, plain brass for under kitchen sinks.

I can unsweat and resweat one of those as many times as I want. How many times can you change a compression joint?

Now, for 3/8 compression joints I use my 6" channellocks I always keep in my pocket. Dope up the line first, slide on the nut and ferrule, then more dope. When you tighten it you will feel it hit a point where the torque steeply rises. Turn the water on and tighten until the leak stop, then go a scoshe more. Then wiggle that supply line thoroughly to make sure it doesn't leak. If the toilet/floor moves a bit than sit your lard ash on that toilet to test it. If it's a flexible braided supply line I tighten until it won't go anymore.

We also always replace the supply line if we have disconnected the old one. We would rather comp a 10$ supply line if the customer complains it didn't need to be changed than risk reusing an old one.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

Tango said:


> Wow really?? All new construction in my area since 1992 used poly-B then in 1995 or so houses and high rise condos are built with pex. I"ve already started to see some sort of pro-press pex. I need to take pictures.q
> 
> I've also seen Water heater installation by companies using only SB braided lines. Some other places where companies did some new piping used all pex and SB fittings. No crimps at all!
> 
> I've also seen copper transitioned to pex for only one foot under sinks and other situations. In one big box hardware store copper fittings are getting real thin and choices in 1/2" fittings are limited and so disorganized it's on it's way out.


Basically the same here in oklahoma. Every new house here since about 2004-2006-ish Has been all pex. Houses here in the late eighties to mid 90s Are hit and miss as to being poly or copper.Mainly leaning toward copper though in that time period.


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> The only compression fittings we have are the 3/8" compression fittings that supply lines connect to. You will never see us use a 5/8" compression fitting, those are for hacks. If you can't get the water to shut off enough to solder than get a 5/8" flare adapter/coupling or a propress. There is never any situation you need a 5/8" compression fitting.
> 
> We use almost exclusively 1/2" sweat by 3/8" compression stops. We use the chrome ones with extension tubes and escutcheons if they are exposed, plain brass for under kitchen sinks.
> 
> ...


 Maybe its for "hacks" where you come from but here in Oklahoma virtually EVERY HOUSE FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS HAS 5/8 COMPRESSION STOPS!! It takes me no time at all to slap a new compression valve behind a toilet or under a sink. Now we have pex valves for the newer homes. Just because your area doesnt do it that way doesnt make us "hacks". :wink:


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Spacepirate said:


> Maybe its for "hacks" where you come from but here in Oklahoma virtually EVERY HOUSE FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS HAS 5/8 COMPRESSION STOPS!! It takes me no time at all to slap a new compression valve behind a toilet or under a sink. Now we have pex valves for the newer homes. Just because your area doesnt do it that way doesnt make us "hacks". :wink:


Every once in a while it takes me a little longer because I find the engagement of the old valve is about 1/8" deeper than the new valve. Then I end up having to hacksaw the end of the pipe off, file it, ream it, etc.....


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

Alan said:


> Every once in a while it takes me a little longer because I find the engagement of the old valve is about 1/8" deeper than the new valve. Then I end up having to hacksaw the end of the pipe off, file it, ream it, etc.....


Little mini hacksaw will save your life.:smile:


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Spacepirate said:


> Little mini hacksaw will save your life.:smile:


Yeah I actually scored a nice mini hacksaw from a yard sale for 50 cents, but it's shape is not good for sawing off closet bolts. I need to get another one.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> they allow you to bury a SB in the wall? Even california which is arguably more liberal than CANADA didnt allow you to bury a mechanical fitting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep they can be behind walls. I confirmed this when I called the association and the technician verified the code because SB is getting popular and I wasn't too familiar with it.







> Originally Posted by Debo22 View Post
> I don't think I've ever seen a solder angle stop. It's all compression or IP here.


IP do you mean iron pipe? Do you mean hot and cold water in galvanized for houses? If so I've never seen that in houses. Government mains yes as I changed some 4-6" out to retrofit with stainless. A welder and I at night...

I have 2" galvanized in my old house but water in copper and the joints were so brittle from 1952 that I popped them out by hand with ease. Like breaking pretzels.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tango said:


> IP do you mean iron pipe? Do you mean hot and cold water in galvanized for houses? If so I've never seen that in houses. Government mains yes as I changed some 4-6" out to retrofit with stainless. A welder and I at night...
> 
> I have 2" galvanized in my old house but water in copper and the joints were so brittle from 1952 that I popped them out by hand with ease. Like breaking pretzels.


Yes, my house was built in 1963 and it had galvanized pipe. It’s very common on the older houses here.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

I was taught to tighted the sh*t out of them. Had a similar experiance in my first year. Had this delta faucet with really long supplys built into the faucet so i cut them to length so it would look better an use the plastic furrels and nut well apparently i didnt crank the sh*t out of it and it blew off. Luckily after i turn the water back on i walk around an double check everything and was there when it blew so cleanup wasnt too bad. But i was nervouse to use compression anything for a while after that.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Alan said:


> Yeah I actually scored a nice mini hacksaw from a yard sale for 50 cents, but it's shape is not good for sawing off closet bolts. I need to get another one.



You guys use compression stops and you still cut off jonibolts?

Hac....JK lolz

I get it, compression stops work fine, they use them all over the uk too. Whatever works for you. We prefer sweat stops. Many houses still have ip stops. If it's ip going into a wall and it's copper visible everywhere else you best be careful you don't crack that old drop elbow in the wall when you change the stop.

It's the same everywhere, the real plumbers get taught a certain way by the previous plumbers so some things just stick. That and it's easier to replace with similar materials. Around here sweat stops got popular and so you change them out with new sweat stops or solder on a male adapter. Obviously you guys had compression stops get popular at one point and it stuck. When someone who isn't a plumber goes into the menards or servistar they just grab whatever looks easiest or is in stock so they don't usually do it the same way as the real local plumbers.

If compression stops work for you than that is great, but you won't see me using them. And yes, a good keyhole saw is worth it's weight in silver solder.

As long as you're not gluing pex into pvc fittings....lolz


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> As long as you're not gluing pex into pvc fittings....lolz


That reminds me of the time I came across a CPVC pipe glued in to a copper fitting. It had held for years until I came around and disturbed the pipe.

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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

I saw a mobile home repair using a combination of qest, cpvc pipe, cpvc fittings, and ABS glue. Supposedly on advisement of the guy at the hardware store.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Alan said:


> I saw a mobile home repair using a combination of qest, cpvc pipe, cpvc fittings, and ABS glue. Supposedly on advisement of the guy at the hardware store.


Off topic here but I've seen 2 pieces of offset galvanized pipe in a crawlspace joined together with a bicycle tube!

Lastly I've mentioned this before my washing machine didn't have a p-trap in the pitch black basement when I moved in so I tried to glue one and it wouldn't stick to the pipe. Only to find out they had put polyethylene pipe for drainage. :vs_whistle:


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Spacepirate said:


> Little mini hacksaw will save your life.:smile:




portaband! and I just got these lennox close cutting wheel, you dont have to tighten its automatic spring loaded as you go around!!! only 1/2” clearance required


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

We have started applying locktight 567 and it has taken care of most issues. New brass is extremely aggravating.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

ok so fellas whats the verdict. Almost all copper here in Illinois, pex apparently was added to code in 2014 but no professional uses and up until this year lake county didnt allow it. I dont think cook where chicago is allows it either. 

however a 5/8 od compression angle stop is as common as a threaded on angle stop. 

what are the benefits of sweat vs compression?

also how much pipe do you leave exposed to allow the new guy 20 years from now to replace it? 




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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> ok so fellas whats the verdict. Almost all copper here in Illinois, pex apparently was added to code in 2014 but no professional uses and up until this year lake county didnt allow it. I dont think cook where chicago is allows it either.


The first company to use pex in new housing construction in your area will undercut everyone else and he can become a giant overnight. You cut time by 3/4. Just wait everyone will follow double quick or end up the high bidder and left in the dust.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Tango said:


> The first company to use pex in new housing construction in your area will undercut everyone else and he can become a giant overnight. You cut time by 3/4. Just wait everyone will follow double quick or end up the high bidder and left in the dust.




I know sir. I was in california when it became legal pipping with a C-36. we charged the same money and saved tons on material. HOWEVER the id of the brass couplers is tiny, I would never put 1/2” in my house id pipe her all in 1” and 3/4”.




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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> also how much pipe do you leave exposed to allow the new guy 20 years from now to replace it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I usually leave a couple inches for the next guy, I hate when I pull an angle stop and the stub out is crushed and the previous guy didn’t leave any meat on the bone.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> I know sir. I was in california when it became legal pipping with a C-36. we charged the same money and saved tons on material. HOWEVER the id of the brass couplers is tiny, I would never put 1/2” in my house id pipe her all in 1” and 3/4”.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s why I go with expansion Uponor, ID is quite a bit larger than the brass crimp fittings. Everything is so low flow out here the reduced size of pex vs. copper isn’t a big deal.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Debo22 said:


> I usually leave a couple inches for the next guy, I hate when I pull an angle stop and the stub out is crushed and the previous guy didn’t leave any meat on the bone.




well. I do too. I think its just good karma


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> well. I do too. I think its just good karma
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's why you should use sweat stops, the copper doesn't have to get shorter each time 

Honestly though, most of the time you can just replace the guts and leave the body. Sometimes I take some sanding cloth and clean the surface the packing sits against.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> I don't think I've ever seen a solder angle stop. It's all compression or IP here.



That's amazing, that is all we ever used back in the day.


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

Nothing wrong with comp IMO, or sweat or ip for that matter. Around here it’s 99% comp or ip - I don’t really care for sweat myself cause it’s just 1 more step to do when replacing. I would definitely rebuild a sweat stop if there’s no extra pipe tho, which guys I worked with before talked $h!+ on - they got the finger 🙂 with comp tho, no reason to shorten it every time - I’ve been reusing the old nut and ferrule if they don’t look in bad shape for almost 20yr and never had a callback on one - I have had 1 callback on ip tho where I should have changed the nipple too but didn’t want to chance breaking the galvanized in the wall. Only problem I see with comp is that some people around here will put it on cpvc and I’ve seen that break the pipe a couple times - most recently about a week ago I turned a running toilet off for someone that didn’t want to repair it right then and they said it broke off about 2 hrs later - don’t know if they tried turning it on or what but either way that’s why I never put them on cpvc lol.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

exclamation said:


> ...I would definitely rebuild a sweat stop if there’s no extra pipe tho....



Why would the pipe get shorter? You just unsweat the old, wipe the solder smooth, litlle sanding and some flux then solder the new one.

It's much easier than cutting and resoldering because the pipe is pretinned. If you're lucky its old 60/40 and then its real easy!!

I do the same thing when I replace valves, or I try to. Most of the time new ball valves are slightly longer than old globe valves so it works well.

When changing compression stops you are continuing to work harden the copper and brass ferrule if you don't cut it and put on all new or if you pull the old ferrule and reuse the nipple.

I have used my ferrule puller twice. once for something it wasn't meant for, and the other for removing an old ferrule and reshaping the pipe so I could put a sweat stop on. I was notimpressed with the surface of the pipe after removing the old ferrule and would not trust a new ferrule to seal on the old surface even with grandpas magic can of stag dope.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

And replacing the guts is really the easiest of all. If the seat is worn you just use your bibb seat resurfacing tool.

You guys ever work in old bathrooms with all matching exposed nickel plumbing? Talk about beautiful. They don't make them like that anymore. White marble and old nickel, a claw foot tub, polished brass door knobs, wall hung toilet tank, polished mahogany toilet seat. And a toilet paper holder from the paper company, free with your purchase of the all new toilet paper product.

When I get old and immobile I want to die in an antique bathroom.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> And replacing the guts is really the easiest of all. If the seat is worn you just use your bibb seat resurfacing tool.
> 
> You guys ever work in old bathrooms with all matching exposed nickel plumbing? Talk about beautiful. They don't make them like that anymore. White marble and old nickel, a claw foot tub, polished brass door knobs, wall hung toilet tank, polished mahogany toilet seat. And a toilet paper holder from the paper company, free with your purchase of the all new toilet paper product.
> 
> When I get old and immobile I want to die in an antique bathroom.




Did a job today in a bathroom someone died in. I think id rather go under an old hickory tree. 

sweat are .20 cheaper than compression at my supplier so thats a thing............... I guess.


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

skoronesa said:


> exclamation said:
> 
> 
> > ...I would definitely rebuild a sweat stop if there’s no extra pipe tho....
> ...



Someone had mentioned that earlier about changing comp stops


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> Did a job today in a bathroom someone died in. I think id rather go under an old hickory tree.
> 
> sweat are .20 cheaper than compression at my supplier so thats a thing............... I guess.
> 
> ...



One of our guys recently bought his first house. It's like 150 yrs old and framed mostly with oak and chestnut. Wide chestnut boards for the roofing and floors.

In the attic is a chestnut chest that came with the house. It had been propped open to stay dry by an old chunk of wood. Inside a squirrel/chipmunk had made a pile, like 50, chestnuts. Whole frickin chestnuts in a chestnut chest, in a chestnut house. That my friends, is more american than apple pie or raping and pillaging red peoples.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> One of our guys recently bought his first house. It's like 150 yrs old and framed mostly with oak and chestnut. Wide chestnut boards for the roofing and floors.
> 
> In the attic is a chestnut chest that came with the house. It had been propped open to stay dry by an old chunk of wood. Inside a squirrel/chipmunk had made a pile, like 50, chestnuts. Whole frickin chestnuts in a chestnut chest, in a chestnut house. That my friends, is more american than apple pie or raping and pillaging red peoples.




selling all the wood for reclaim then building with **** lumber is more american than apple pie

that wood has to be worth around $800,000


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> selling all the wood for reclaim then building with **** lumber is more american than apple pie
> 
> that wood has to be worth around $800,000
> 
> ...


It's worth a lot but not that much.

We plumbed a house that was roughly 2000 square feet. All of the flooring was 3/4" reclaimed chest nut with hand wrought nails. That only came to 125,000$ for the flooring and it came sawn and mostly sanded.

It was really beautiful. We did radiant in the entire house. Warm chestnut floor


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

for compression stops I use the ridgid stop wrench to install stops,easiest and best way all around,also I take a little pipe dope and put it on the threads of the nut,not on the male end of the stop but in the nut itself,never have that squeak squeak by doing this


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

sparky said:


> for compression stops I use the ridgid stop wrench to install stops,easiest and best way all around,also I take a little pipe dope and put it on the threads of the nut,not on the male end of the stop but in the nut itself,never have that squeak squeak by doing this



I get the whitlam talon grey dope so it blends in better with the chrome cuz I just glob it on. I put the nut on, dope the line good, put the ferrule on, and redope the stuff it wiped off and the outside of the ferrule. It splooges out when I tighten it so I have to use up all their toilet paper cleaning up the mess. :biggrin:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

*A tip for all*

*In looking at this post and the replies ... I want to talk about removing angle stops FIP and stopping the hazard of breaking off the riser in the wall, when the guy before you didn't do his job right.
Before putting any force on a valve hold back on the nipple. bad threads in the wall is always a concern, along with soft copper for risers -- breaking a riser or kinking and breaking anything in the wall can become a wallet squeezing disaster for both you and the customer. [If your lucky].
Here is the way to handel the job. Like I said hold the nipple, loosen the valve, remove it. Now is the time to investigate what's in there. Look in with a flashlight if the 3/8 thread has a hex on it you can take a deep wall tub socket of the right size [you might have to cut the wrench] but now you can hold back on the wrench while you loosen the nipple. same with the replacement.
In service this can always be a $hit happens job!*


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> ok so fellas whats the verdict. Almost all copper here in Illinois, pex apparently was added to code in 2014 but no professional uses and up until this year lake county didnt allow it. I dont think cook where chicago is allows it either.
> 
> however a 5/8 od compression angle stop is as common as a threaded on angle stop.
> 
> ...



Pex has been allowed in Illinois since well before 2014. Is common downstate in residential. Heavy commercial it's pretty scarce.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

rwh said:


> Pex has been allowed in Illinois since well before 2014. Is common downstate in residential. Heavy commercial it's pretty scarce.




downstate, aka south of the mason dixon. Good to know. Ive never seen pex in Lake or Cook County. 




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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> I get the whitlam talon grey dope so it blends in better with the chrome cuz I just glob it on. I put the nut on, dope the line good, put the ferrule on, and redope the stuff it wiped off and the outside of the ferrule. It splooges out when I tighten it so I have to use up all their toilet paper cleaning up the mess. :biggrin:


Never put pipe dope on the Ferrell or the pipe,only on the threads,have seen them blow off from to much dope

Be really careful with stops,this is the easiest ways to flood a house


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

sparky said:


> Never put pipe dope on the Ferrell or the pipe,only on the threads,have seen them blow off from to much dope
> 
> Be really careful with stops,this is the easiest ways to flood a house


We are a shop of 30+ guys that has been around for almost a century. We all dope compression fittings and have not had them blow off. Heck, I don't usually see them fail even when they freeze.

Now granted that is 3/8" compression joints on soft copper supply lines. I could see 5/8" ferrules on hard copper not biting in properly. I guess that's one reason we use sweat stops.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

used a sweat stop today. much faster. 


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> used a sweat stop today. much faster.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's cool. I would have thought compression would be faster. We use the chrome stops with the extension tube and escutcheon. They can be a pain if the escutcheon keeps falling down when doing a vertical one. The best tip for that is to bend the little tabs on the inside of the escutcheon that grip the pipe so they grip it more.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> That's cool. I would have thought compression would be faster. We use the chrome stops with the extension tube and escutcheon. They can be a pain if the escutcheon keeps falling down when doing a vertical one. The best tip for that is to bend the little tabs on the inside of the escutcheon that grip the pipe so they grip it more.




great tip! 


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> JohnnieSqueeze said:
> 
> 
> > used a sweat stop today. much faster.
> ...


Thats what iv always done for shower head escutions. See alot of guys just put a gob of silicone. Better to just bend the tabs with your dogs.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> We are a shop of 30+ guys that has been around for almost a century. We all dope compression fittings and have not had them blow off. Heck, I don't usually see them fail even when they freeze.
> 
> Now granted that is 3/8" compression joints on soft copper supply lines. I could see 5/8" ferrules on hard copper not biting in properly. I guess that's one reason we use sweat stops.


You are lucky,it even says on the stop box not to put pipe dope on the Ferrell,if one did fail they would not cover nothing if it was gobbled full of pipe dope,but they wouldn’t cover nothin anyways


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

sparky said:


> You are lucky,it even says on the stop box not to put pipe dope on the Ferrell,if one did fail they would not cover nothing if it was gobbled full of pipe dope,but they wouldn’t cover nothin anyways


It's not luck, it's called experience, we know what works. Dope or not it ain't gonna blow off, even in freezing conditions the packing nuts blow first. The edges of the ferrule, made from hard, lead-free brass, cuts through the surface of the soft copper tubing. I have at least 10 old supply lines in my scrap bucket right now and each and every one of them is like this. The ferrule gets reduced in size and can no longer slide on the tube. It can't get pushed larger again because the nut and female surface are surrounding it. You're just flat out wrong. Now, like I admitted, I could see this happening with 5/8" hard temper copper pipe where the ferrule may not dig in, but even then it will probably leak if it hasn't dug in.

Does the dope prevent the ferrule from digging in? No, it doesn't. Just like using dielectric grease on an electrical connection doesn't inhibit the connection from being properly made. Just like oil on a drill bit doesn't stop it from cutting a hole.

If you still don't believe that a properly tightened ferrule with dope won't just slide off than try it for yourself.

The dope helps the rough surface of the ferrule seal against the tube. The most important feature is the prevention of galling. It also helps when chrome supply lines corrode between the copper tube surface and the layer of chrome. Maybe back in the day when the brass had more lead in it and there wasn't machining chatter on the surface you didn't need dope, but now, for us, we always use it.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> great tip!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's what she said


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> That's what she said




olo ooloo ooooloooo


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> It's not luck, it's called experience, we know what works. Dope or not it ain't gonna blow off, even in freezing conditions the packing nuts blow first. The edges of the ferrule, made from hard, lead-free brass, cuts through the surface of the soft copper tubing. I have at least 10 old supply lines in my scrap bucket right now and each and every one of them is like this. The ferrule gets reduced in size and can no longer slide on the tube. It can't get pushed larger again because the nut and female surface are surrounding it. You're just flat out wrong. Now, like I admitted, I could see this happening with 5/8" hard temper copper pipe where the ferrule may not dig in, but even then it will probably leak if it hasn't dug in.
> 
> Does the dope prevent the ferrule from digging in? No, it doesn't. Just like using dielectric grease on an electrical connection doesn't inhibit the connection from being properly made. Just like oil on a drill bit doesn't stop it from cutting a hole.
> 
> ...


I’m talkin about on 1/2” copper tube with 5/8” Ferrell,no need to sweat stops on compression been around for yrs Nd if put on correctly will never blow off


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

We use compression stops on hard copper all the time here. No dope on the ferrule but a little on the male threads just for lubrication. We have never had any problems with them and they work good.

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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

The Dane said:


> We use compression stops on hard copper all the time here. No dope on the ferrule but a little on the male threads just for lubrication. We have never had any problems with them and they work good.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk




Same here. For 19 yrs it’s how it’s been done around here. On Copper and cpvc. I have a certificate somewhere I’ll
Have to find. My forearms were tested and calibrated and are now NASA certified torque wrenches. 😎


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Same here. For 19 yrs it’s how it’s been done around here. On Copper and cpvc. I have a certificate somewhere I’ll
> Have to find. My forearms were tested and calibrated and are now NASA certified torque wrenches. 😎


Ferrules on cpvc? Never heard or seen that. I've only known ferrules on copper and plastic ferrules on 1/4 pex for fridge lines.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> Ferrules on cpvc? Never heard or seen that. I've only known ferrules on copper and plastic ferrules on 1/4 pex for fridge lines.


I have put compression fittings on CPVC 2 or 3 times by the bosses order but did not like it. We don't see much CPVC here so it was either to transition or a stop under a sink.

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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

The Dane said:


> Tango said:
> 
> 
> > Ferrules on cpvc? Never heard or seen that. I've only known ferrules on copper and plastic ferrules on 1/4 pex for fridge lines.
> ...


Way it was being done in 1999 by all my foremens instructions. Pretty common here. Never seen one blow off of cpvc. I’ve seen them over tightened and drip due to the feral digging in too deep to the cpvc, but never one blown off unless some ass clown forgot to tighten it period. I’ve seen glue on stops blow off, and would never use a pex supply anything with a plastic ferral anything. There is a better way to run a supply, but anyone who uses pex with a plastic ferral in my opinion is a cheap SOB willing the risk of that garbage blowing out. Stainless braided no burst or copper all day. But if you need to save a few bucks on a house you bid rock bottom on to get the work so be it. Lol.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Stainless braided no burst or copper all day. But if you need to save a few bucks on a house you bid rock bottom on to get the work so be it. Lol.


Braided if I'm not mistaking in my code is max 3 feet. Gotta recheck to make sure.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

long thread I started lots of great opinions and experience here. Thanks boys! 


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Tango said:


> ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:
> 
> 
> > Stainless braided no burst or copper all day. But if you need to save a few bucks on a house you bid rock bottom on to get the work so be it. Lol.
> ...


That’s interesting. Curious to see what you find. We’re ICC here, FL edition. We have a new inspector well, not really new but started a few years ago and he’s been straight by the book. Never heard anything about the length of a braided supply line. Ice maker and dishwasher are 5 feet. He did make me change a proflo check valve out from an under counter sump pump we installed because it wasn’t “third party” tested. 😳


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## frankL2196 (Sep 16, 2021)

Spacepirate said:


> We use eastman valves and ive never had one blow off. But my dad has though. He used some of the import brands that the supply house provided and He tells me the story of how he tightened one down really tight once and every thing was good but while he was doing a leak check. All of a sudden she blew of because the nut cracked from overtightening. The main problem was the cheap thin brass nut. He warns me ahout overtighting them but his arms are huge and i dont think i can ever tighten them as much as he can.lain: Me and my brother benched tested some valves we had laying around and our determination was you really cant go wrong. Even if you went monkey *$%$ tight. But i like to go firm and then give it something extra (pretty much as tight as i can without going super crazy) Its hard to explain cause its kinda by feel. If she dont leak shes good:wink:
> And of course if something did leak........Just Blame it on the manufacturer:devil3:
> 
> I did have a job recently where i pulled of 2 shutoffs and the ferrels were not even bit into on the copper:surprise:. The ferrels were moving and i almost pulled one to the end of the copper. That was one where i was glad to be converting from copper to pex and going crimp on it.
> ...


True! I was tightening up a curb stop the other day. Not much room to swing wrenches in the hole and only used one. Used the curb box as the opposing force. Hole is covered it held perfect. So cranking isn’t always needed



Alan said:


> Every once in a while it takes me a little longer because I find the engagement of the old valve is about 1/8" deeper than the new valve. Then I end up having to hacksaw the end of the pipe off, file it, ream it, etc.....





Alan said:


> Every once in a while it takes me a little longer because I find the engagement of the old valve is about 1/8" deeper than the new valve. Then I end up having to hacksaw the end of the pipe off, file it, ream it, etc.....


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