# Setting a Toilet



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Would you leave a toilet rocking like that for your customer?


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OK, I watched the video, (2) questions:

1) What's with the dark, dark, really dark Grout?....:blink:
2) Wood shims?


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

PUTTY!!!!!!!:laughing:

Oh, sorry. wrong thread. :laughing:


----------



## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> PUTTY!!!!!!!:laughing:
> 
> Oh, sorry. wrong thread. :laughing:


Have seen a back outlet set with oakum, did not leak for 50 years.


----------



## rombo (Jul 17, 2008)

The grout looks absolutely horrible. Why not use silicone? 
Also if I have to shim i use plastic. 

That grout is going to wick moisture when ever the floor is washed. Unless you sealed it after.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> OK, I watched the video, (2) questions:
> 
> 1) What's with the dark, dark, really dark Grout?....:blink:
> 2) Wood shims?


 

Hydraulic cement. Hard as stone in 5 minutes. Customer wanted grout so he could paint it white. Marble slab wouldn't conform to the footprint of the toilet exact.

Wood shims because I'm old school and if you look at the damage to the floor caused by the copper shims, they wasn't going back. 

If you properly set a toilet, caulk or grout around the base, those shims will never deteriorate, ever.

Plastic shims I never can get them to work the way a wood shim does.


I actually believe putty works very well on placement of toilets. Putty will work very well as I've removed toilets 50+ years old that were solid.



Customer called me to thank me for putting that video up as they are trying to get reimbursed for the last guy's hack work. They stated that sitting on that toilet feels like it's solid as the concrete it's sitting on. Mission accomplished.


That trick with the hydraulic cement? I've noticed that when people dry grout those in, it cracks up because it's so thin. I shimmed that toilet to have a good solid reveal and thickness around it, but I mixed up enough where I could push in at least an inch all the way around.

That way it's not a fine line. It's a nice thick layer all around it, and that toilet won't move unless it's replaced.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

rombo said:


> The grout looks absolutely horrible. Why not use silicone?
> Also if I have to shim i use plastic.
> 
> That grout is going to wick moisture when ever the floor is washed. Unless you sealed it after.


 

It's getting painted white by the customer. Too large of a margin between floor and toilet to silicone, plus I wanted it solid like the concrete below it.


----------



## rombo (Jul 17, 2008)

Should look fine painted. why not white? Or do you just keep gray in the truck?

I personally would have filled that with silicone. I keep old credit cards in the truck for shaping.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

rombo said:


> Should look fine painted. why not white? Or do you just keep gray in the truck?
> 
> I personally would have filled that with silicone. I keep old credit cards in the truck for shaping.


 
White grout? or white hydraulic cement? 


I used hydraulic cement because I can use hot or cold water, hot if I want that to set up in 90 seconds. Gotta be super fast though. 

The idea of a marble slab was knocked off the idea list because it puts a hard raised edge on the two front corners, and sometimes those slabs don't reach the full footprint of the toilet.

I use silicone 95% of the time if the margins are narrow for sanitary and finished look reasons, occaisional shim if the floor or toilet is uneven to stop rocking.

This customer was requesting grout from the go, so I told him to let me use hydraulic cement so he could use the toilet right away. 

If he uses the right color white, that will look invisible to the base, and if they ever replace the linoleum they can cut it right at the edge of the grout line. 

Using old credit cards would give me waaaaaaaaay too many bad memories just seeing them.


----------



## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> White grout? or white hydraulic cement?
> 
> 
> I used hydraulic cement because I can use hot or cold water, hot if I want that to set up in 90 seconds. Gotta be super fast though.
> ...


----------



## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> YouTube - RESETTING A TOILET
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Job well done!!!


----------



## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

rombo said:


> The grout looks absolutely horrible. Why not use silicone?
> Also if I have to shim i use plastic.
> 
> That grout is going to wick moisture when ever the floor is washed. Unless you sealed it after.


 
Maybe this might help you understand his madness:thumbsup:
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/ilplumber-i-need-your-help-12663/


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Well she's solid NOW !! I prefer white floor grout ,,, but there is several ways to skin a cat DP !


----------



## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

That's some pretty SCARY music you chose...almost to scared to check and see if MY toilet is shaking. lol


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> YouTube - RESETTING A TOILET
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 That is so wrong on so many levels.

Exactly how long do you expect those pine shims to last?


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> That is so wrong on so many levels.
> 
> Exactly how long do you expect those pine shims to last?


 

The shims were temporary to get the grout underneath. *A toilet that is properly installed will never leak underneath, ever.*



I don't care if the shims disintegrate in a day, that's not what is holding that toilet level and solid.


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Some people must not fully understand _hydraulic cement. They must not realize that it's harder than regular slab cement. And with the use of hydraulic cement, that toilet will never rock. Job well done sir._




DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The shims were temporary to get the grout underneath.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care if the shims disintegrate in a day, that's not what is holding that toilet level and solid.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The shims were temporary to get the grout underneath. *A toilet that is properly installed will never leak underneath, ever.*
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care if the shims disintegrate in a day, that's not what is holding that toilet level and solid.


 Alright. I misunderstood.

Carry on.


----------



## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

Your install looks good. Of course, if some f-tard hadn't set the flange too high originally, you wouldn't have to reinvent the freaking wheel just to set a toilet. I definitely like your method of dealing with it, I'll keep it in mind for the next one I come across.


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The shims were temporary to get the grout underneath. *A toilet that is properly installed will never leak underneath, ever.*


You're wrong.


----------



## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

why couldn't you just properly install a new flange ?


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You're wrong.


 
Drive bys in my thread are not allowed. State your case and I'll show you the error of your ways.



skitian said:


> Your install looks good. Of course, if some f-tard hadn't set the flange too high originally, you wouldn't have to reinvent the freaking wheel just to set a toilet. I definitely like your method of dealing with it, I'll keep it in mind for the next one I come across.


 
That's where it all started, new construction plumbing was wrong.



Bayside500 said:


> why couldn't you just properly install a new flange ?


Almost knew this question would come up, but I guess I should of taken one picture inside the flange to know that isn't going to happen. 

Besides, my job is to get the toilet functional and sturdy, back in operation for minimal cost. Knowing a toilet worked for 13 years until the idiot plumber thought wise to use metal closet bolts was in his best interest.


This all goes back to what I stated from the go; this situation has not one but two plumbers that are not doing plumbing work correctly. 

I find this constantly in my profession. It's not acceptable in my book, ever.


----------



## rombo (Jul 17, 2008)

Ya i missed the part on hydraulic cement. Obviously not white.


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Drive bys in my thread are not allowed. State your case and I'll show you the error of your ways.


I've seen toilets leak from the rats eating the wax from the inside out, how do you prevent that?


----------



## rombo (Jul 17, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> The shims were temporary to get the grout underneath. *A toilet that is properly installed will never leak underneath, ever.*


I have to side with you on that. The number one reason any w.c leaks is movement.

Its the old age argument of whether a bowl should be sealed to the floor or wall, regardless of whats used to do it.

I always hear from naive plumbers that bowls shouldn't be caulked or grouted or whatever because you won't see a leak until its through the ceiling . I can count on one hand how many gaskets (wax and sponge) that i have seen deteriorated solely on its own. There is always an underlying problem. Number one being improper installed, rotten sub floors, thermal expansion, ect


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

rombo said:


> I have to side with you on that. The number one reason any w.c leaks is movement.
> 
> Its the old age argument of whether a bowl should be sealed to the floor or wall, regardless of whats used to do it.
> 
> I always hear from naive plumbers that bowls shouldn't be caulked or grouted or whatever because you won't see a leak until its through the ceiling . I can count on one hand how many gaskets (wax and sponge) that i have seen deteriorated solely on its own. There is always an underlying problem. Number one being improper installed, rotten sub floors, thermal expansion, ect


 

Exactly, and I can name off 50 other scenarios that will affect how that product lasts in those situations. 

I have seen many wax rings that pull away from the toilet, leak gases and not water because they initially plunged that toilet, blew the ring out and there was already water on the floor, not realizing it was blown. First clog and the water shows up.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> I've seen toilets leak from the rats eating the wax from the inside out, how do you prevent that?


 

Why would a rat, knowing the size of most rats try to eat between the marginal distance of the ceramic horn of the toilet and maybe 3/8" to 1/2" of separation between the ceramic horn and the flange/piping? 


A true compression of a wax ring somewhere hits about 3/8" to 7/16" when industry standard is applied to correct installation of a toilet on a floor with the closet flange placed directly on top of the floor.

rombo's statements pretty much cover my statements. 


This is why you and I have pulled toilets in separate states, using both wax and putty applications and got decades of use. 

Solid floor, no vibration, no outside circumstances, nobody plunging the hell out of the toilet, that wax ring will go indefinitely and hold tight. 

But, as always, situations get altered from the go, my situation with this customer yesterday proves it started with the new construction plumber who set his trunk line too high. 

*That was a vent 90 on that toilet. Tell me somebody didn't know they F'd up.*


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Why would a rat, knowing the size of most rats try to eat between the marginal distance of the ceramic horn of the toilet and maybe 3/8" to 1/2" of separation between the ceramic horn and the flange/piping?
> 
> 
> A true compression of a wax ring somewhere hits about 3/8" to 7/16" when industry standard is applied to correct installation of a toilet on a floor with the closet flange placed directly on top of the floor.
> ...


The toilets I am referring to were in a food warehouse, the rats were looking for a way in.

Look at a CI closet bend, they are the same as a vent 90, if the stack is correctly installed you don't need any sweep on a closet bend, it is done to help break up the solids.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> The toilets I am referring to were in a food warehouse, the rats were looking for a way in.
> 
> Look at a CI closet bend, they are the same as a vent 90, if the stack is correctly installed you don't need any sweep on a closet bend, it is done to help break up the solids.


 

I guess the rats certainly knew the reward on the other side of the wax. 


I know CI bends are quick turning, but to see it in a plastic/newer home application, only one reason it was installed, and that's because someone was trying hard 'after the fact' it was too late.


And that starts back at the ground rough, when you should of worked that much harder to dig another inch under the footer, or cuss the footer crew that only used one nail to hold the sleeve in place, instead of two. Soon as the concrete hits the trench the sleeve raises. Been there, don't ever want to relive those days of shoveling ever again.:no:


----------



## Mags (Mar 11, 2011)

After seeing the video with out reading any part of this thread i was like "WTF".My first reaction was the flange needs to be replaced to make it right. But I do understand now what kind of flange it was or perhaps this is on a 2nd floor and the home owner didnt want to open a cieling etc. I must say that is a good solution...very well done! I personally dont like using plastic flanges, they always seem to be a little thick , end up cracking, or give a bit where the closet bolts anchor when secured. I also see the flanges mounted on the sub floor all the time. Common practice with new house plumbing. Its always nice to pull a toilet and see the flange 1" below the finish floor and 2 wax rings all squished togther. As an inspector I wont allow the flange to be mounted during the rough on the sub floor. I also see alot of plumbers mount the flange during rough, anticipateing the finish height by shimming under the flange with strapping, plastic pieces, old tile, plywood, dixie cups, smashed pipe, you name it. THE FLANGE MOUNTS ON THE FINISH FLOOR!. Sorry to rant, good job Dunbar.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

> As an inspector I wont allow the flange to be mounted during the rough on the sub floor.


 That isn't your call to make. I'd run roughshod right over your head and right down the other side if you ever pulled that on me. And I would prevail. I know this because I've done it way too many times to count. We all answer to somebody, and believe me, I've been doing this long enough to know exactly who it is you or your Peers answer to, I also have that persons number on my speed dial.

We bid/budget a lot of these jobs while they're still in the planning stage, which means the establishment of a finished floor height is months away.

Knowing the finished floor height within a 1/16" is a luxury most of us out in the field don't have. More often than not, the HO or the GC will look at their budget several months after the rough-in has been signed off and then decide they can afford a hydronic or electric in floor heating system -- Or they change their mind and decide that their budget can afford a hardwood system that doesn't rely on cheesy veneers.

Bottom line -- Establishing a finished floor height is tricky business, even on spec homes -- And believe me, I'd go right right over your head if you ever tried to bust my balls on this point, and I'd prevail.


----------



## Pipe Dreams (Feb 10, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> That isn't your call to make. I'd run roughshod right over your head and right down the other side if you ever pulled that on me. And I would prevail. I know this because I've done it way too many times to count. We all answer to somebody, and believe me, I've been doing this long enough to know exactly who it is you or your Peers answer to, I also have that persons number on my speed dial.
> 
> We bid/budget a lot of these jobs while they're still in the planning stage, which means the establishment of a finished floor height is months away.
> 
> ...


So you don't set the flange on the rough? If that's the case then I don't get what you're arguing with him for.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Pipe Dreams said:


> So you don't set the flange on the rough? If that's the case then I don't get what you're arguing with him for.


 I do set them on the rough. If they need to be built up after the fact, then shame on them, not me.

Life goes on.


----------



## Pipe Dreams (Feb 10, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> I do set them on the rough. If they need to be built up after the fact, then shame on them, not me.
> 
> Life goes on.


I set them on the rough as well. It just seemed you were against it since it's difficult to determine the floor height within 1/16"


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Id have to disagree. You can wait until the floors are laid to set the flange. It's not difficult plumbing a piece of pipe through a floor and continue on with the drain. Rather "house" plumbers need to have that flange set to run pipe. Would love to see one of y'all plumb from the ground up.

Rockin the Red, bringing the fury.... go caps!


----------



## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Pipe Dreams said:


> I set them on the rough as well. It just seemed you were against it since it's difficult to determine the floor height within 1/16"


 
1/16" does not compute, my tape has 1/4" increments only.:laughing:


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Pipe Dreams said:


> I set them on the rough as well. It just seemed you were against it since it's difficult to determine the floor height within 1/16"


 Sorry if I wasn't clear -- I'm just fed up with Inspectors who exceed their mandate.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

> Id have to disagree. You can wait until the floors are laid to set the flange. It's not difficult plumbing a piece of pipe through a floor and continue on with the drain.


 Just wait until you've dealt with a Inspector who refuses to sign off on the rough-in until the closet flanges are set.


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

So while performing a test on for sh*ts and giggles on cast is need to set the flange before I test?

Nag, I don't think I could find an inspector around here who'd fail for not having the flange set.


----------



## Pipe Dreams (Feb 10, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> 1/16" does not compute, my tape has 1/4" increments only.:laughing:


My tape computes 1/16" increments but my eyes not so much


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plumb nutz said:


> So while performing a test on for sh*ts and giggles on cast is need to set the flange before I test?
> 
> Nag, I don't think I could find an inspector around here who'd fail for not having the flange set.


 My local Inspectors are good decent people who rose up through the ranks and actually practiced the Trade -- The flip side of that coin is that I deal with Inspectors all across the country through my work with HFH who never Plumbed a day in their life.


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm not trying to be a d*ck and argue with you, just don't believe you can't do something.

Waiting on the great 8 to get things going....


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> That isn't your call to make. I'd run roughshod right over your head and right down the other side if you ever pulled that on me. And I would prevail. I know this because I've done it way too many times to count. We all answer to somebody, and believe me, I've been doing this long enough to know exactly who it is you or your Peers answer to, I also have that persons number on my speed dial.
> 
> We bid/budget a lot of these jobs while they're still in the planning stage, which means the establishment of a finished floor height is months away.
> 
> ...


Pull that attitude with some of the Chicago inspectors I know and you will never get a job passed without a minimum of six return inspections in the entire city and most of Cook county, and they will make you tear out every single thing that does not pass on the spot, in their presence.

If they are in a really bad mood they'll shut the job down till it is visited by the building commissioner, that can take months.


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

No flanges on our jobs get set until finished floor is done. We have plumbed houses where they have built the floor up 2 inches before. Sometimes we might set them if it's commercial and getting VCT. But not usually. Pinellas County inspectors required a closet flange inspection at trim time before water closets were set. But they don't anymore


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

It wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit, but I'd rather see it done with flanges on top the finished floor, nothing else, no excuses.


It would stop tons of destruction. Still the property owner, handyman or floor guy will instantly do a layover or allow it to stay. 

*But it should be done correctly the first time with no exception.*


----------



## danfan13 (Mar 31, 2011)

Looks like the flange was a bit too high, if the floor is level and the flange is set properly than you should not have that gap around the toilet base, period.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

danfan13 said:


> Looks like the flange was a bit too high, if the floor is level and the flange is set properly than you should not have that gap around the toilet base, period.


 

It was, about a 1/4" to 3/8". 


I've been told the grout was painted and you cannot tell from looking at it.


----------



## Prscptn Plmbng (Feb 15, 2011)

I use press and stick tiles cut into 1x1 squares for shims, they are so thin that you can stack them up to make any height needed tio make that toilet stable after you lock down the bowl, cut off extra hanging out with a razor knife...then I use dap to finish it off. Never had a toilet loosen up in 15 years.... I disagree with the comment bout wax never going bad...I've seen properly installed toilets with the wax shrunken and rotten, another big wax killer is a bad flapper letting water trickle over the seal...

Prescription Plumbing Inc 
P.O.Box 6378 
Oceanside, CA 92502


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Pull that attitude with some of the Chicago inspectors I know and you will never get a job passed without a minimum of six return inspections in the entire city and most of Cook county, and they will make you tear out every single thing that does not pass on the spot, in their presence.
> 
> If they are in a really bad mood they'll shut the job down till it is visited by the building commissioner, that can take months.



If the correction they are demanding isn't in the Code Book or in the Municipalities adopted amendments to the Code Book, then I'm not making the correction. Period. 

These guys and gals, the Inspectors, work for us, not the other way around.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

house plumber said:


> No flanges on our jobs get set until finished floor is done. We have plumbed houses where they have built the floor up 2 inches before. Sometimes we might set them if it's commercial and getting VCT. But not usually. Pinellas County inspectors required a closet flange inspection at trim time before water closets were set. But they don't anymore


 What do you guys do to prevent the Tile Setter, the Gypcrete guy or the Hard Wood guy from running their material right up to the stub-out?

Chipping out gypcrete, concrete, tile or hard wood after the fact to accommodate the hub, let alone leave enough room to properly prime and glue sounds like a major pain in the butt.


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Maybe use a 4 x 3 90 stub up 4" and use a 4 x 3 flange?

Or a 4" slave over the 3" stub will work as well.


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Damn auto correct. That should be sleeve... not slave...


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plumb nutz said:


> Maybe use a 4 x 3 90 stub up 4" and use a 4 x 3 flange?
> 
> Or a 4" slave over the 3" stub will work as well.


 That would probably work -- Or I guess you could wrap it a few times with foam sill seal.

It just seems weird to me; I was in Florida, Mississippi and Louisiana right after both Andrew and Katrina helping with the reconstruction and not one Plumbing Inspector ever batted an eye when they saw the flanges set and screwed to the sub-floor.


----------



## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

I only would do this is I did not know what floor or the height of the floor.

Track housing I would do what I needed to set the height, but only because doing the same houses over and over again you come to know exactly how the other subs are running their work.


----------



## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> What do you guys do to prevent the Tile Setter, the Gypcrete guy or the Hard Wood guy from running their material right up to the stub-out?
> 
> Chipping out gypcrete, concrete, tile or hard wood after the fact to accommodate the hub, let alone leave enough room to properly prime and glue sounds like a major pain in the butt.


 
Sawzall, hammer, chizel. Never a problem setting a flange on the finish. I would prefer the flange not below the finished floor if it can be prevented.


----------



## 3Peasdrain (Feb 5, 2010)

*setting toilet*

Flange should always be set on top of finished floor. and anytime you set a toilet on tile floor you should use plaster paris to set toilet on.


----------



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

3Peasdrain said:


> Flange should always be set on top of finished floor. and anytime you set a toilet on tile floor you should use plaster paris to set toilet on.


Why should you use plaster of paris?


----------



## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> What do you guys do to prevent the Tile Setter, the Gypcrete guy or the Hard Wood guy from running their material right up to the stub-out?
> 
> Chipping out gypcrete, concrete, tile or hard wood after the fact to accommodate the hub, let alone leave enough room to properly prime and glue sounds like a major pain in the butt.


A 3" toilet flange fits tight inside of 4" pipe, I cut the pipe off and put a 3" flange on, no chipping or hammering needed


----------



## Mags (Mar 11, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> That isn't your call to make. I'd run roughshod right over your head and right down the other side if you ever pulled that on me. And I would prevail. I know this because I've done it way too many times to count. We all answer to somebody, and believe me, I've been doing this long enough to know exactly who it is you or your Peers answer to, I also have that persons number on my speed dial.
> 
> We bid/budget a lot of these jobs while they're still in the planning stage, which means the establishment of a finished floor height is months away.
> 
> ...


Look, I'm an inspetor in MA and our code dictates that the flange "shall" be set on the finished floor. MA plumbing Code 248 CMR 10.06 2d(6). Floor Flanges: A Flange shall be secured to the finsh floor on which it sets by screwing or bolting and shall be connected to the specific piping by soldering, caulking or solvent welding as provided for.
I'm not making up my own code, believe me. I work as a part time inspector here on the seacost north of Boston. I own my own business and have one full time employee. Ive been in business for 13 years. I try my best to help out the plumber, hey I'm one of you. I cringe too when I have to work in certain towns. I dont know what code you follow and if its not in your code then you have every right not to do it. Its in our code and I follow it. I'm not here to lay down the law, just thought Id give my perspective on a certain situation. It seems some here agree that the flange belongs on the finish anyhow. I know its easier to screw the flange down to plywood, have a hub there for you to plumb to and have a knock out available for testing. But maybe its not the best practice. Its code here in MA.


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

If you have to you can always wrap armaflex around it to give it the space you need for the flange or like someone else mentioned, glue the flange inside the 4 inch riser. Thats what we do. Hell, If I know it will need an offset flange, I've cut a piece of 3 inch in half long ways and taped it to the side that gets the offset. Tile guy will finish right up to it and it works out perfect. Of course that only works if they build the floor up at least an 1 1/2". Then there will be no chipping needed




Widdershins said:


> What do you guys do to prevent the Tile Setter, the Gypcrete guy or the Hard Wood guy from running their material right up to the stub-out?
> 
> Chipping out gypcrete, concrete, tile or hard wood after the fact to accommodate the hub, let alone leave enough room to properly prime and glue sounds like a major pain in the butt.


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Mags said:


> Look, I'm an inspetor in MA and our code dictates that the flange "shall" be set on the finished floor. MA plumbing Code 248 CMR 10.06 2d(6). Floor Flanges: A Flange shall be secured to the finsh floor on which it sets by screwing or bolting and shall be connected to the specific piping by soldering, caulking or solvent welding as provided for.
> I'm not making up my own code, believe me. I work as a part time inspector here on the seacost north of Boston. I own my own business and have one full time employee. Ive been in business for 13 years. I try my best to help out the plumber, hey I'm one of you. I cringe too when I have to work in certain towns. I dont know what code you follow and if its not in your code then you have every right not to do it. Its in our code and I follow it. I'm not here to lay down the law, just thought Id give my perspective on a certain situation. It seems some here agree that the flange belongs on the finish anyhow. I know its easier to screw the flange down to plywood, have a hub there for you to plumb to and have a knock out available for testing. But maybe its not the best practice. Its code here in MA.


You look. I'm an inspector in NJ. Anyone with even a little bit of plumbing experience knows that the intent of the code is to guarantee that the flange is the correct height above the finished floor, and screwed down securely. Make them show you the flange extenders, for gods sake.


----------



## Mags (Mar 11, 2011)

RealLivePlumber said:


> You look. I'm an inspector in NJ. Anyone with even a little bit of plumbing experience knows that the intent of the code is to guarantee that the flange is the correct height above the finished floor, and screwed down securely. Make them show you the flange extenders, for gods sake.


I dont get this , what is so troublesome to just stub a pipe at proper height in preperation for the flange to be installed at finish. You guys are really lazy or just dont know how to measure. The intent here is that the flange gets secured to finsh floor, end of story.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mags;177737[QUOTE said:


> ]Look, I'm an inspetor in MA and our code dictates that the flange "shall" be set on the finished floor. MA plumbing Code 248 CMR 10.06 2d(6). Floor Flanges: A Flange shall be secured to the finsh floor on which it sets by screwing or bolting and shall be connected to the specific piping by soldering, caulking or solvent welding as provided for.


 I would have never opened my yap if I knew you were a MA Inspector.

I can't say that I agree with this particular sub-section of the MA Code, but I do respect that it has been codified into law.

Sorry for going off half cocked like I did.

Rules are rules.


----------



## Mags (Mar 11, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Mags;177737
> I would have never opened my yap if I knew you were a MA Inspector.
> I can't say that I agree with this particular sub-section of the MA Code said:
> 
> ...


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mags said:


> Widdershins said:
> 
> 
> > No problem, Like i said I'm not here to show off my "inspector" status, I'm here as a contractor like you. I dont know everything and am always learning. I feel the same way you do when i do work in other towns.
> ...


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Prscptn Plmbng said:


> I use press and stick tiles cut into 1x1 squares for shims, they are so thin that you can stack them up to make any height needed tio make that toilet stable after you lock down the bowl, cut off extra hanging out with a razor knife...then I use dap to finish it off. Never had a toilet loosen up in 15 years.... I disagree with the comment bout wax never going bad...I've seen properly installed toilets with the wax shrunken and rotten, another big wax killer is a bad flapper letting water trickle over the seal...


 
I've tried what you're talking about and I just never had luck with them. I like to jam something tight so I can pull the knife across without the shim moving. 


On your statements about wax shrinking,


That sounds like shoddy wax, not so much incorrect installation and I've noticed over the years that there are numerous 'kinds' of wax rings out there, meaning the products being used to produce it.

Some that look like string made into it, dark color, light colored, wax that when you pull the toilet that looks like freaking jelly laying there with almost too loose of a consistency.

How did you come to a conclusion a leaking flapper dictated a wax ring failure when the life of a toilet has flushed thousands of gallons in the process of its use, along with the amount of water that trickles over the trapway once the water level has been satisfied during the refill cycle till the water measure is satisfied. Seems that pins back to quality of products used, not so much a workmanship issue that I'm alluding to. The wax I'm accustomed to using is lighter colored wax, the type that's still fairly hard but pliable without stringy texture, that's looks like true wax, nothing less. I don't expect every customer I set a toilet for over the years to get back in touch with me in 24 years, but I've had one toilet leak at a wax ring after I installed it, back in 91' and I haven't had a leak since. If I'm unsure of a toilet setting I'll let the customer know right there and then. When you've been doing this long enough you get the feel for certain tasks, and you'll know right away the way the toilet goes down if it's going to be problematic or not. I'm very known for fact finding over the phone, and when I hear of certain calls over the phone where I get a customer contacting me to fix a toilet "that my husband or handyman" installed after a floor overlay,

I'll find out over the phone how deep that original flange is setting into the floor. 

If I get a customer with a flange setting 3/4" into the floor? (Real wood overlay) 

It's getting reworked or I will not touch that flange. I lose calls a lot like this, but that's good. I tell them I cannot give a price over the phone, which they feel entitles me to go and meet them, give a free estimate to do it right. 

No, it doesn't. And I toss the call because they are not reasonable. They just want the toilet reset and you double ring that situation they'll blame you the next time it was plunged and it leaks.

I get real particular about this one very task because it can lead to some serious damage to the structure along with mold, so I take no chances.


----------



## 3Peasdrain (Feb 5, 2010)

*setting toilet*

One of you asked why set the toilet on plaster paris if on a tile floor. The plaster paris gives it a solid base and you dont need a knife to cut the caulk away and theres no chance of pulling floor up when toilet gets removed for snaking. Too many times i've had to pull a toilet to snake line and the other guy sealed around the toilet with caulk or phenoseal. Makes it real hard to get off the flor and anyways that stuff doesnt give the toilet a sturdy base cause its still plyable.


----------



## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

3Peasdrain said:


> One of you asked why set the toilet on plaster paris if on a tile floor. The plaster paris gives it a solid base and you dont need a knife to cut the caulk away and theres no chance of pulling floor up when toilet gets removed for snaking. Too many times i've had to pull a toilet to snake line and the other guy sealed around the toilet with caulk or phenoseal. Makes it real hard to get off the flor and anyways that stuff doesnt give the toilet a sturdy base cause its still plyable.


So you don't caulk the base? you use plaster? It seems to me that when the lady of the house mops the floor that plaster will suck up that dirty water. not very clean. unless I am misunderstanding something.


----------



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Plumber Jim said:


> So you don't caulk the base? you use plaster? It seems to me that when the lady of the house mops the floor that plaster will suck up that dirty water. not very clean. unless I am misunderstanding something.


It's also a place for mold to grow....


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Airgap said:


> It's also a place for mold to grow....


 And Cooties.

Mustn't forget the Cooties.


----------



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> And Cooties.
> 
> Mustn't forget the Cooties.


Yes. Our Pinata's must not have cooties....


----------



## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

8 pages on how to set a toilet / install a flange, sounds like a bunch of 1st year apprentices.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Titletownplumbr said:


> 8 pages on how to set a toilet / install a flange, sounds like a bunch of 1st year apprentices.


 Says the Noob with the very impressive post count.:smartass:


----------



## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> Says the Noob with the very impressive post count.:smartass:


ya , because post count means so much, am i right ?


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Bayside500 said:


> ya , because post count means so much, am i right ?



Absolutely correct.:laughing:


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

8 pages? I see only 2. Maybe adjust your settings. Sounds like a 1st year computer apprentice.



Titletownplumbr said:


> 8 pages on how to set a toilet / install a flange, sounds like a bunch of 1st year apprentices.


----------



## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

house plumber said:


> 8 pages? I see only 2. Maybe adjust your settings. Sounds like a 1st year computer apprentice.


Spin it however you want, there's still 8 pages of discussion about it. Funny how something so simple could even warrant having it's own thread.


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I'm not spinning it. There are now 78 posts on 2 pages. 



Titletownplumbr said:


> Spin it however you want, there's still 8 pages of discussion about it. Funny how something so simple could even warrant having it's own thread.


----------



## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

house plumber said:


> I'm not spinning it. There are now 78 posts on 2 pages.


On the bottom corner of my screen it says 8.


----------



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Titletownplumbr said:


> Spin it however you want, there's still 8 pages of discussion about it. Funny how something so simple could even warrant having it's own thread.


You must've missed the "Picking a sawzall" thread.:laughing:


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Titletownplumbr said:


> On the bottom corner of my screen it says 8.


 You can change the number of posts listed on a single page in your Control Panel.


----------

