# Question for you pex guys (Uponor)



## crowejr77 (Jan 5, 2012)

So all the contractors we work for have required copper for all water lines on the new homes and remodel work we do. Our company is just my father and I and he has been doing this for 40 years now and has always run copper. So here is the deal. We are plumbing a house, scheduled to do the upper rough in 3 weeks, that the ho wants pex. I have been taken the lead on the bidding and research etc. We are using the Uponor system per ho. I am fine w/ trying this system, it seems to have a good connection process in my opinion, vs. the band clamp. I really have no personal experience w/ any of it so it's just based on what I have read and guys I have talked to a Fergeson who sell it. So I just have a few basic questions like, how do you turn out you lines for vanities, toilets, and so on? Do you transition to copper w/ those pre-bent stub-out copper pipes? If not do you bring the pex directly to the cabinet or toilet and put a shutoff valve on the pex? Just curious being a rookie at the pex thing, what the best way is. Thanks for any advice.


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

use the copper stub outs, copper on your tub spouts


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

propex drop ear ($$$$pricey$$$$)and brass nipples

brass nipples and 90° for tub spout(unless rough in valve is sweat, then a regular drop ear and brass nipple)


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## rusak (Sep 20, 2008)

This is what I use.









Sweat to Holdrite


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Because I'm cheap, I bend my own stub outs with type L copper and a pex x sweat adapter. I like to use the drop ears and brass nipples also. I hate it when somebody stubs out with pex; it looks like a mobile home.






Paul


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## rusak (Sep 20, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> Because I'm cheap, I bend my own stub outs with type L copper and a pex x sweat adapter. I like to use the drop ears and brass nipples also. I hate it when somebody stubs out with pex; it looks like a mobile home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you bend hard type L? 
How much money do you save that way vs prefabbed stub outs?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

rusak said:


> Do you bend hard type L?
> How much money do you save that way vs prefabbed stub outs?


Yes. I use a Ridgid 358 ratcheting bender.


Keep in mind I don't do new homes, just the rare repipe or bathroom remodel/addition. This means I have to fab up 10 or so stub outs and it doesn't take too long. I think the pex stub outs cost me something like 8 bucks each at the supply house. A stick of type L costs about $40 and can make 20 of them. 



If I were doing new work and needed hundreds of them, it wouldn't be worth it but in the small quantities I need them it's fine.





Paul


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## seanny deep (Jan 28, 2012)

FOR toilets copper stub outs for kitchen sinks i stub up with copper lots of the time, vanits laundry tubs ect wirsbo and then use the propex escusion "there not cheap" they hide the ring and the pex so its just chrome to the stop, i really like the wirsbo stops they look attractive aand never had a problem with one. I almost only use wirsbo and headers. Small places homerun system large jobs branch and trunk or flow thru headers. The m12 milwaukee expander is a must trying to use hand pumps in vanitys ect sucks. I usually use mip x propex 90 on showers and tubs goodluck i think you will like the system just always wear gloves if you have sweaty hands cause the ring will slide and drive you nuts.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I prefer the brass high ear couplings.

If you've been running copper your whole life, you'll love how fast you can run PEX. Get the Milwaukee tool.

I use the pre-fab copper stub outs. Brass nipples for tub spouts.


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## rusak (Sep 20, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> Yes. I use a Ridgid 358 ratcheting bender.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind I don't do new homes, just the rare repipe or bathroom remodel/addition. This means I have to fab up 10 or so stub outs and it doesn't take too long. I think the pex stub outs cost me something like 8 bucks each at the supply house. A stick of type L costs about $40 and can make 20 of them.
> ...


My cost on those stub outs is around $4

I can't believe they charge you $8


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> Yes. I use a Ridgid 358 ratcheting bender.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind I don't do new homes, just the rare repipe or bathroom remodel/addition. This means I have to fab up 10 or so stub outs and it doesn't take too long. I think the pex stub outs cost me something like 8 bucks each at the supply house. A stick of type L costs about $40 and can make 20 of them.
> ...


that is one cool bender


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

HOMER said:


> propex drop ear ($$$$pricey$$$$)and brass nipples
> 
> brass nipples and 90° for tub spout(unless rough in valve is sweat, then a regular drop ear and brass nipple)


cannot agree more here. The copper stubouts with holdrights are just a tad above pex stubbed out with the stainless inserts. And you are doing the next guy, who might just be a handy hack, a favor, when he puts his wrench on the stop...
Solid, secure. The best way.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I use Holdrites 'Pexrite' system for stubbing out of walls for sinks and water closets.










As for shower valves, tub valves and tub/shower combinations, I still plumb most of those in with copper.

Most manufacturers do not recommend using pex for shower/spout risers because the restricted flow wreaks havoc with the diverter function.


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## crowejr77 (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks guys, that really helps clarify. I will take all your advice when Im doing this roughin. That's why I love this site.
:thumbsup:


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

Stub outs and hold rites I agree I use viega system only and have never had any problems at all .Anybody not using pex at this point ,is in my opinion closed minded you can't possibly do copper as quick with less potential for problems .this job is hard enough it can be done neat and professionally or hacked up just like copper .just my opinion I've been using it for a long time now and any questionable situations have been positively answered( pressure,leaks ,freezing,overall durability)good luck.Ask your contractors demanding copper if they took their horse and buggy to work or their modern work trucks.why don't they just demand bell and spigot cast iron with yarned and poured joints it's still available.I think a lot of plumbers also think its so easy some one will steal our work ,copper isn't that difficult and we've all seen how that gets hacked ,now well see the same with 
Pex Technology is good keep up or be passed by the younger who will learn how to sweat but may never do a complete project with it they'll say like we did I can't believe they did entire houses like this ,that is still a little way off but well see the day .


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Whatever you do...

Don't use PEX between the mixer and the tub spout....:no::no::no:

Unless you want to have a showerhead that drips whenever water is running to the tub spout....


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

I guess I'm the only one who stubs out in pex. I use a fitting by pex adapter and a compression stop usually. Some applications do get some copper for physical strength or if looks are in question.

I really like the pex stops, but not the price of them. On repipes I try to keep the holes to a minimum, so a lot of times it's a plastic drop ear bend support trimmed so a plastic escutcheon will hide the support flange. On new construction I secure it in the wall and stup out the pex. After all, it is the copper that is our problem not the pex. I don't recall any one ever complaining about how my jobs turn out in the end. Million ways to skin a cat, no offense wids.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

gitnerdun said:


> I guess I'm the only one who stubs out in pex. I use a fitting by pex adapter and a compression stop usually. Some applications do get some copper for physical strength or if looks are in question.
> 
> I really like the pex stops, but not the price of them. On repipes I try to keep the holes to a minimum, so a lot of times it's a plastic drop ear bend support trimmed so a plastic escutcheon will hide the support flange. On new construction I secure it in the wall and stup out the pex. After all, it is the copper that is our problem not the pex. I don't recall any one ever complaining about how my jobs turn out in the end. *Million ways to skin a cat, no offense wids.*



None taken.

Wouldn't it be nice (and oh so boring) if we all agreed on the same materials and installation practices?

If I've learned anything here over the past year, it's that environmental and financial considerations oftentimes take precedence.

Copper is brilliant in the glacier fed Northwest, but anathema in areas where acidic groundwater is the norm.

You can bury cast iron in some areas of the country and have it last 100+ years -- It'll turn to jelly in less than 5 years in other parts of the country.

CSST is the go-to material in the less lightening prone NW, but a lightening rod in the Mid-West.

The list goes on. . . .


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

One question.

If pex is such a good product.

Why use copper stub-outs?:whistling2:


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## crowejr77 (Jan 5, 2012)

ILPlumber said:


> One question.
> 
> If pex is such a good product.
> 
> Why use copper stub-outs?:whistling2:


:yes:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

ILPlumber said:


> One question.
> 
> If pex is such a good product.
> 
> Why use copper stub-outs?:whistling2:


It adds rigidity to the angle stops.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

ILPlumber said:


> One question.
> 
> If pex is such a good product.
> 
> Why use copper stub-outs?:whistling2:


it's a good product inside the walls. i never stub it out of the walls. I hate loose flimsey stub outs!

Copper stub outs make for a way better job,


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## plumbperfect59 (Mar 14, 2012)

In our country, bending L-hard is contrary to code. We go around repairing the pin-hole leaks on the stretched out heal of the bend that some guy bent 30 years earlier, especially under-slab. W/B Pex stubouts are every bit worth it, since my own time is worth a heck of a lot more than what I'd ever save by bending my own stub-outs. I question whether the plumber doing that kind of thing is charging enough. Actually, if I was the HO, I'd be something upset if I saw my $90/hr plumber making stub-outs!


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

plumbperfect59 said:


> In our country, bending L-hard is contrary to code. We go around repairing the pin-hole leaks on the stretched out heal of the bend that some guy bent 30 years earlier, especially under-slab. W/B Pex stubouts are every bit worth it, since my own time is worth a heck of a lot more than what I'd ever save by bending my own stub-outs. I question whether the plumber doing that kind of thing is charging enough. Actually, if I was the HO, I'd be something upset if I saw my $90/hr plumber making stub-outs!


So you aren't allowed to bend copper, but purchasing prebent copper is okay?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumbperfect59 said:


> In our country....


In our country we like to say howdy before jumping into the middle of someone else's conversation.

An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

When I used to plumb tract-style houses I would bring most of my pipes up out of the floor unless it was a pedestal basin. I did that even with copper, the idea being both less fittings and easier repairs if ever needed. And no copper bends are needed with the floor piping. And yes, always copper on the tub and shower valves for flow and rigidity.


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## plumbperfect59 (Mar 14, 2012)

*pex guys*

My apologies for being so "rude"! "How-die all! Now, to the subject. I am a "pex-guy", still crimping, but we only use the "Rehau" red and blue. We have tried the plates across the face of the studs with curved plastic shoes (can't remember what it's called), but still like the old-fashioned 2"X4" and wing-back pex stub ells. The plate system is a good alternative when you have a vent stack sharing the same stud space. 
As to bending your own L-hard to create stubs, I would think that they are sand-filled when manufactured at the factory. At least that's what we used to do back some 25 years ago when I used to run pipe-benders.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumbperfect59 said:


> My apologies for being so "rude"! "How-die all! Now, to the subject.


No! Do the intro that was requested... 

Trust me it's for your own good... :yes:


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## brians plumbing (Jan 12, 2012)

Sometimes the pex manufacture offers a very short class and certification.


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