# Lead toilet riser at concrete level.



## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Have to set a toilet tomorrow, the odd thing when I looked at it today was it is a 3" pvc 90 with 4" lead riser. My problem is the lead is flush with the concrete. House is on slab. Lead is pretty straight, smooth and clean. Kind of looks like the lead was torn flush with the slab.

My boss gave me one of those pvc flanges with the 3 allen bolts you tighten up and it squishes a rubber ring out to seal to the pipe. I'm not thrilled to install it, especially since the flange part isn't metal. I was going to take the metal ring from another flange and place it on top of the pvc flange and then bolt it to the floor to act as reinforcement. Is there a better option or do yall think that would be good? I've never worked with lead.


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

If the lead is flush, you should be good to go with a brass floor flange. The flange sits on the floor but goes beneath the floor around the pipe. Just peen it over and solder it.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Lead is flush with the concrete slab ... i forgot to mention that there is tile, so the lead is approx 1/2" below finished floor.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

I'm thinking I'm going to end up chipping a little concrete to be able to install a brass floor flange.

Tips on soldering the lead to the brass?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

chonkie said:


> I'm thinking I'm going to end up chipping a little concrete to be able to install a brass floor flange.
> 
> Tips on soldering the lead to the brass?


If you do that then the flange is still going to be 1/2" too low with the tiles you mentioned...:whistling2:

Best case scenario without breaking the floor would be to get the flange on the lead and add a 1/2" spacer to bring it up to the proper level...

Personally I'd bust the floor get the lead out and set the flange on top of the finished floor than make a hacked up mess forever...


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

I wonder if the brass flange will be lead free ...


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Best case scenario without breaking the floor would be to get the flange on the lead and add a 1/2" spacer to bring it up to the proper level...


That's what I was envisioning. When I said I was going to chip some concrete, I thought I would have to chip a little channel around the lead so the brass flange would drop around the lead a little bit so I can peen it over and solder it.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

I assume with lead, the key is to not get it too hot. Do i need to get special flux? Special way to clean it? After the prep work, best method for success ... just heat the brass? My main concern is I'll mess up by melting the lead and making more work. I should get some lead roof flashing and practice a little in the morning.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

chonkie said:


> I assume with lead, the key is to not get it too hot. Do i need to get special flux? Special way to clean it? After the prep work, best method for success ... just heat the brass? My main concern is I'll mess up by melting the lead and making more work. I should get some lead roof flashing and practice a little in the morning.


Keep your heat on the brass and use 50/50 solder...

Otherwise you'll chase disappearing lead...


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

I don't know what it is about women changing their minds this last week, but I show up to install the toilet and get there to no tile on the floor. She decided to change it. Good for me, easier to get the flange installed.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

chonkie said:


> I assume with lead, the key is to not get it too hot. Do i need to get special flux? Special way to clean it? After the prep work, best method for success ... just heat the brass? My main concern is I'll mess up by melting the lead and making more work. I should get some lead roof flashing and practice a little in the morning.


*Always ... when soldering lead to brass. Tin the brass first, the photos of the finish work do not look like the brass flange was tinned.*


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *Always ... when soldering lead to brass. Tin the brass first, the photos of the finish work do not look like the brass flange was tinned.*


So it won't stick if he didn't do that bill?????id just bolt that expanding flange in place if it were me


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

sparky said:


> So it won't stick if he didn't do that bill?????id just bolt that expanding flange in place if it were me



Hack


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> Hack


Most if not all inspectors I have ever been around are know it alls that can't hack it in the real world,look in mirror for a "hack" :laughing:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

sparky said:


> Most if not all inspectors I have ever been around are know it alls that can't hack it in the real world,look in mirror for a "hack" :laughing:



I was expecting that from you, please hold


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

sparky said:


> So it won't stick if he didn't do that bill?????id just bolt that expanding flange in place if it were me


The best temperature to have solder take to brass is much hotter than soldering to lead. By pre-tinning the flange, the lead can be soldered to the solder on the brass at a low temp that minimizes melting the lead.

I have done it both ways and pre-tinning is BY FAR much easier.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Sorry had to go help my daughter with something because I have the day off due to a state holiday which is exactly why I shut down my business of 14 years to take on my inspector role was to spend more time with my family , not because I couldn't " hack it" as a plumber. The position I hold I was asked to do because of the respect I had due to knowledge and skill I had as a plumber. That was just my full time job, the town position I hold the building inspector said my work was the most impressive and clean work he had ever seen and asked me to step in the role when the currant inspector of 50 years retired, I've now held that position for 2 years. My background in this trade is not limited to just residential work but much commercial and industrial work. Now I will admit I do miss being a mechanic, but I've made my choice to hang up the tools and I do not regret it. That being said I enjoy a good argument on plumbing code and practices and will call out anyone that is performing an incorrect install, repair or alteration. We have professional licenses and are expected to perform professional work. So do it right or put it out there and expect to get criticized. This is the only current pic I have of any of my work, it's at my house








I'm not a know it all hack


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

I'd like to be an inspector.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Flyout95 said:


> I'd like to be an inspector.



It's a great job to have and i feel privileged to do it. For the most part I deal with good plumbers and have a great respect for them, then there are the idiots that got their license out of Cracker Jack box. I do not have a tolerance for stupidity and incompetent plumbers. I'll call a spade a spade


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Flyout95 said:


> I'd like to be an inspector.



You would make a great inspector👍👍


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Flyout95 said:


> I'd like to be an inspector.


Hide all th aav and expose the 5" prechargd air chambers!


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

And don't forget to keep a box of q tips for the purple primer....Fly you will be a good inspector :thumbup: at least you won't need to use the k-50 as inspector


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Gargalaxy said:


> And don't forget to keep a box of q tips for the purple primer....Fly you will be a good inspector :thumbup: at least you won't need to use the k-50 as inspector



Hey it worked for me


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

It's funny to see yall get worked up. It's a good thing I didn't solder it, that is silver silicone. 



Just kidding. 

I heated just the outside of the flange, touched the solder to the brass/lead until the solder flowed. Seemed to take it really good once it started. I will tin the brass next time I run across this. I feel the joint will be good and the flange is securely bolted to the floor.

No way in hell was I going to just use the pvc expansion flange.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

You can reuse one q-tip for many jobs if you get the good ones with more cotton at the tip.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> It's a great job to have and i feel privileged to do it. For the most part I deal with good plumbers and have a great respect for them, then there are the idiots that got their license out of Cracker Jack box. I do not have a tolerance for stupidity and incompetent plumbers. I'll call a spade a spade


And I will call a knowitall inspector a spade in a heartbeat,if I know I'm right and get turned down I will not take their crap,I go over their head every time and most,not always,I'm right and he will have to come back and put a green sticker on it,got into it with one the other day,turned out I was right but he got all mad cause I would not go along with what he "thought" was the way it should have been done


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I get paid to be a know it all and you clearly have some dumb inspectors if even they allow one step glue, he probably is not a plumber, one of those ICC inspectors that passed 1 test for all the trades. Almost every response to topic that you make spews incompetence and a lack of knowledge. So I'll go back to knowing it all, you best start reading up son


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Zing! :laughing:


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## Plumberdood1 (Apr 23, 2014)

In my opion plumbers that worked in the field then become inspectors are great. The ICC inspectors as you call them are idiots.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Plumberdood1 said:


> In my opion plumbers that worked in the field then become inspectors are great. The ICC inspectors as you call them are idiots.



Bingo


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumberdood1 said:


> In my opion plumbers that worked in the field then become inspectors are great. The ICC inspectors as you call them are idiots.


Yep..those f..... TPI ones... hearing they are getting banned from doing plumbing inspections in more cities


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> I get paid to be a know it all and you clearly have some dumb inspectors if even they allow one step glue, he probably is not a plumber, one of those ICC inspectors that passed 1 test for all the trades. Almost every response to topic that you make spews incompetence and a lack of knowledge. So I'll go back to knowing it all, you best start reading up son


You done said I don't read nothin so you. Know that ain't happening,I'd be ashamed to get on here and be an inspector and tell a guy his work is wrong when in fact it was right all along,typical power tripping inspectors


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

sparky said:


> You done said I don't read nothin so you. Know that ain't happening,I'd be ashamed to get on here and be an inspector and tell a guy his work is wrong when in fact it was right all along,typical power tripping inspectors



Apparently you need reading and grammar lessons. I'm having a hard time comprehending your backwoods Kentucky slang. It may be the educated know it all brain that I have that's not computing what your fingers on the computer is spewing.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

The one part that I did understand is the telling a guy he is wrong about his work when it's right. Now let's recap the conversation Mr Sparky, you stated to install a pvc compression flange is a proper repair for a lead flange correct? So I stated maybe a little strongly that is a "hack" install. What I should have said is that is not a compliant install, but I had a funny feeling that was a big word for you so went with "hack" so you could comprehend the vocabulary.


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

I just don't trust those expansion flanges on lead because the lead is always misshaped, not to mention, lead isn't strong. Also it cuts the pipe size down a lot but I guess it isn't an issue for 4"


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

What I have done when the lead was too short was flare it out and slip a piece of straight lead into it and solder. But that was a huge pain In the ass.


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> It's a great job to have and i feel privileged to do it. For the most part I deal with good plumbers and have a great respect for them, then there are the idiots that got their license out of Cracker Jack box. I do not have a tolerance for stupidity and incompetent plumbers. I'll call a spade a spade


I call a spade a shovel..


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

srloren said:


> I call a spade a shovel..



Touché


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

jmc12185 said:


> I just don't trust those expansion flanges on lead because the *lead is always misshaped*, not to mention, *lead isn't strong.*


Exactly the reasons why the approved use is on pipe and not lead...




jmc12185 said:


> Also *it cuts the pipe size down a lot* but I guess it isn't an issue for 4"


Which may be a reason for prohibition under some codes...

Just a guess PlumbDrum... Would your code be one of those that prohibits the usage of the expansion flanges?:whistling2:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I could come up with a few 👍👍


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

jmc12185 said:


> I just don't trust those expansion flanges on lead because the lead is always misshaped, not to mention, lead isn't strong. Also it cuts the pipe size down a lot but I guess it isn't an issue for 4"


Hey guys be careful about reducing the size of the closet flange to anything less than 3" because for some toilets a 3" partially chokes with a quick Ultra Low flushing toilets. They are designed to flow without obstacles. I have had flushing problems with the wax rings that have the 4x3 reducer embedded in them when installing Glacier Bay Toilets from Home Depot. Some of these toilets claim .8 gallons per flush and that may be ok if you don't have a belly in the main line that causes debris to build up and eventually cause a stoppage. Just saying that the newer low flush toilets aren't all they are cracked up to be. I learned a lesson and will stick to the regular wax ring. We always used a Dutchman when the closet bend was below the concrete. It made for a better wax seal. On 2 or more story buildings check this link out: http://www.plumbingzone.com/members/srloren-21104/albums/wax-ring-install/
I have also learned to use Toto, Kohler or American Standard toilets in my old age.... shame on me. 76 years old and still learning!


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Don't understand why, but your album link sends me to an old post by Plumber about famous bankruptcies again. I'm using the app. Is anyone else seeing the same on his link?


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> The one part that I did understand is the telling a guy he is wrong about his work when it's right. Now let's recap the conversation Mr Sparky, you stated to install a pvc compression flange is a proper repair for a lead flange correct? So I stated maybe a little strongly that is a "hack" install. What I should have said is that is not a compliant install, but I had a funny feeling that was a big word for you so went with "hack" so you could comprehend the vocabulary.


Oh change the subject,I'm glad plumbdumb doesn't work in ky:laughing:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> Sorry had to go help my daughter with something because I have the day off due to a state holiday which is exactly why I shut down my business of 14 years to take on my inspector role was to spend more time with my family , not because I couldn't " hack it" as a plumber. The position I hold I was asked to do because of the respect I had due to knowledge and skill I had as a plumber. That was just my full time job, the town position I hold the building inspector said my work was the most impressive and clean work he had ever seen and asked me to step in the role when the currant inspector of 50 years retired, I've now held that position for 2 years. My background in this trade is not limited to just residential work but much commercial and industrial work. Now I will admit I do miss being a mechanic, but I've made my choice to hang up the tools and I do not regret it. That being said I enjoy a good argument on plumbing code and practices and will call out anyone that is performing an incorrect install, repair or alteration. We have professional licenses and are expected to perform professional work. So do it right or put it out there and expect to get criticized. This is the only current pic I have of any of my work, it's at my house
> View attachment 49258
> 
> 
> I'm not a know it all hack


5yr project plumbdumb????


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Huh


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> Huh


That was the pic that you posted a few days ago,lolololo,just havin a little fun,ignore it:laughing:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Ok, got it. It was my weekend warrior project.


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

chonkie said:


> Don't understand why, but your album link sends me to an old post by Plumber about famous bankruptcies again. I'm using the app. Is anyone else seeing the same on his link?


Are you referring to Post #41? If so it must be a problem with the site because my album link to photos show what it is supposed to.


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