# Toto Toilets



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I went and picked up a box of free swag from the toto distributorship owner today and remembered that toto was being sold at walmart and mentioned it to him......he said "Not anymore I raised hell with Toto and they found out how it was being done and stopped it". Walamrt was using a 2nd party on the toto toilets....well its been stopped now. I just ran a search and its not at walmart anymore. He said that other distributors raised hell as well. He also told me that Rinnai will be selling tankless water heaters through the big box stores including Sears. They will be labled somthing different. Like G.E. is one he named.


----------



## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

These companies have no respect for the plumbers that support their products. So basically you are supposed to be certified by rinnia to get the heater but now you won't nice.


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Besides Gerber who else hasnt sold out?


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Ya can't tell me Toto didn't know where those water closets were going....

How many were ordered? I would guess around 25,000? That is probably a low guess. They knew EXACTLY where they would end up and they wanted the MONEY baby. They didn't give 2 shiots if they were being sold and installed by un-licensed hispanics in Lowe's parking lot.


----------



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

It's all about the money.


Like what was mentioned...in 20 years we are all going to be in the same grouping as drywallers, framers, roofers and siders.


The value of that license is getting watered down heavily. Can't say I'll be retired by then because I'll work till I die. 

That's a fact. There's no reason to stop working at this point.


----------



## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> It's all about the money.
> 
> 
> Like what was mentioned...in 20 years we are all going to be in the same grouping as drywallers, framers, roofers and siders.
> ...


It's a sign of the times. Almost no integrity left anywhere. Very discouraging.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

In my little old opinion....this very topic is something far greater of importance than we realize now. Sure we can piss and moan about it, but soon enough there will a war on us. There are companies that have a bunch of really smart people making things that can replace a lot of talent and experience we have earned. Hence the shark bite. No need to learn how to properly sweat joints, which BTW is something I hear often from DIY home owners when I am sweating something "I didn't want to burn down my house so I called you".

Mark my words people there will be more and more companies making products that will cause havok to the service plumber. Granted I do not think the everyday plumber will be put totally out of business, but we as plumbers better start learning how to combat these companies. It's our asses on the line and no one is looking out for us. I for one have been and am working on other things plumbing related and otherwise. I am not interested in waiting to say..."hay what the hell happened". F- that, I have come too far in my life to roll over and become a victim


----------



## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

Tankless said:


> In my little old opinion....this very topic is something far greater of importance than we realize now. Sure we can piss and moan about it, but soon enough there will a war on us. There are companies that have a bunch of really smart people making things that can replace a lot of talent and experience we have earned. Hence the shark bite. No need to learn how to properly sweat joints, which BTW is something I hear often from DIY home owners when I am sweating something "I didn't want to burn down my house so I called you".
> 
> Mark my words people there will be more and more companies making products that will cause havok to the service plumber. Granted I do not think the everyday plumber will be put totally out of business, but we as plumbers better start learning how to combat these companies. It's our asses on the line and no one is looking out for us. I for one have been and am working on other things plumbing related and otherwise. I am not interested in waiting to say..."hay what the hell happened". F- that, I have come too far in my life to roll over and become a victim


Certainly the squeeze is on for residential service work, probably new construction as well. Commercial work may be the only work Plumbers will have a few years down the road.


----------



## dapperdan (Dec 25, 2008)

I keep waiting for some cheap A-S to get advise from one of the big boxes to install a water heater and the blow themselves up. " It will happen "


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

The dumbing down of products is not just a recent trend. I'll bet plumbers were non too happy when the close coupled wc came on the market, not to mention the one piece. As far as technological progress (for lack of a more accurate word) is concerned, I like what Lee Iacocco said. "Get on, get out of the way, or get run over." 
Tankless is on the right track. Watch the new trends. Jump on the band wagon when you see one that you can support (and make a buck on). _Sharpen the saw._ 
Green tech is one of those areas. In the arid west, I see water conservation as a potential gold mine. Grey and rain water exploitation are areas complicated enough that the DIY crowd will be looking to us for expertize. 
And energy conservation is a national band wagon big enough for all of us.


----------



## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Ya can't tell me Toto didn't know where those water closets were going....
> 
> How many were ordered? I would guess around 25,000? That is probably a low guess. They knew EXACTLY where they would end up and they wanted the MONEY baby. They didn't give 2 shiots if they were being sold and installed by un-licensed hispanics in Lowe's parking lot.


 Is that why it took one of my suppliers 8 weeks to get a special order from toto for me?


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Ya can't tell me Toto didn't know where those water closets were going....
> 
> How many were ordered? I would guess around 25,000? That is probably a low guess. They knew EXACTLY where they would end up and they wanted the MONEY baby. They didn't give 2 shiots if they were being sold and installed by un-licensed hispanics in Lowe's parking lot.


 Toto was not selling them to walmart. Toto was selling them to a dealer and the dealer struck a deal with walmart to put it on the web. It was stopped so somthing was done about it.


----------



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

C'mon, check out the flush on the Eco Ultramax with Dual Cyclone flush:


----------



## plumbwright (Oct 26, 2009)

went to a install a kenmore/whirpool dishwasher last week that used a "new" 3/4" female hose x 3/8 comp. 90 instead of the standard 3/8" npt. I think the reason for this change is to make it easier for the ho to connect the water to the dw themselves (no pipe dope or teflon tape)..everyone knows how to connect a hose fitting.


----------



## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Plumbing may be getting easier, but the population is exploding with kids that are not mechanically inclined in the least. There are far less kids getting into the plumbing trade. Service plumbing is NOT going anywhere anytime soon. 

Some of us are too stubborn on the old (and yes sometimes better) way of doing things. Some new products are better for certain situations/customers. Like it or not plumbing is changing and there is nothing we can do about it. You can ***** and moan all you want, but I promise you nothing is going to stop our trade from evolving.

We need to beat the handy hacks at their own game. Use some of the newer products that make things easier. Do it neater, support it better, have insurance, pull permits, be on time, be a pro! Most decent customers will pay more for a pro if your not charging excessively. Who want's to F with their plumbing in their spare time? If you charge $800 to install a $150 toilet then I don't blame a HO for taking a chance on a handy hack.

I always try to put myself in my customers shoes. See things from their perspective. IMO the future is bright.....


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Just for fun we set up five different toilets. A toto, an am-std cadet, a mansfield 130, a wellworth and the 40 dollar toilet in a bag from HD. Put 22 golf balls in them and tried to flush them. Guess what? All five toilets flushed the golf balls just fine including the 40 dollar cheepo


----------



## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

golf balls?????


----------



## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

Why golf balls? I would think that golf balls would find their way through the trap fairly easily.


----------



## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Plumbing may be getting easier, but the population is exploding with kids that are not mechanically inclined in the least. There are far less kids getting into the plumbing trade. Service plumbing is NOT going anywhere anytime soon.
> 
> Some of us are too stubborn on the old (and yes sometimes better) way of doing things. Some new products are better for certain situations/customers. Like it or not plumbing is changing and there is nothing we can do about it. You can ***** and moan all you want, but I promise you nothing is going to stop our trade from evolving.
> 
> ...



And then there is the fact that people are afraid of their own "waste". I've seen H.O. run for the other room at the sight of a little K.S. slime, or nearly puke at the sight of a used wax gasket. Much like guns,booze,or anything else for that matter if the existing laws would be enforced even just a little it would take care of a heck of a lot of problems.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*golf balls*



Plumbdog said:


> Why golf balls? I would think that golf balls would find their way through the trap fairly easily.


Just the thought of dropping something bigger 
than a golf ball in the toilet kind of brings tears to my eyes....


I know I would be seeing double for
 a while after a dump like that


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I think I remember a tv commercial where they flushed a bunch of golf balls, maybe it was ping pong balls.

Why not get some sausage links, maybe a meatball or 2? Dont forget to add some tp.:thumbsup:


----------



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Just for fun we set up five different toilets. A toto, an am-std cadet, a mansfield 130, a wellworth and the 40 dollar toilet in a bag from HD. Put 22 golf balls in them and tried to flush them. Guess what? All five toilets flushed the golf balls just fine including the 40 dollar cheepo


Try ping-pong balls next time and get back to us.


----------



## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Just for fun we set up five different toilets. A toto, an am-std cadet, a mansfield 130, a wellworth and the 40 dollar toilet in a bag from HD. Put 22 golf balls in them and tried to flush them. Guess what? All five toilets flushed the golf balls just fine including the 40 dollar cheepo


40 peeled bananas, ... yeah, ... now that would impress me. I've seen brand new Kohlers that wouldn't flush 4 squares of tp by themselves. 3 squares, flush just fine, add 1 square and absolute refusal.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> I think I remember a tv commercial where they flushed a bunch of golf balls, maybe it was ping pong balls.
> 
> Why not get some sausage links, maybe a meatball or 2? Dont forget to add some tp.:thumbsup:


That was the Am. Std. Champion where they did the golf ball test.

Personally as far as flush performance testing I'll go with the MaP Report but even that doesn't have the whole picture...
MaP Report Link


----------



## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

if you make things simple enough so any fool can do it you'll end up having fools do it... I guess I agree with plumbus... stay a step ahead and exploit what you can while you can. Gray water/rain water, energy conservation etc. but then again, mechanical stuff will break down, even the big box crap from wal-mart, sears, HD and so forth. They won't be able to eliminate the plumber no matter how simple they make things.


----------



## pipe dope (Oct 27, 2009)

dont know how to delete posts yet. sorry guys


----------



## pipe dope (Oct 27, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Besides Gerber who else hasnt sold out?


Gerber sold out a while ago. Their lav. faucets are from China now and look/feel different, cheap. Every now and then I get an original one from the shop and it's such a better, more solid faucet. sad.



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> It's all about the money.
> 
> 
> Like what was mentioned...in 20 years we are all going to be in the same grouping as drywallers, framers, roofers and siders.
> ...


It's already like that here in South chicago. It's extremely competitive and most plumbers aren't even licensed. I'm talking $65 kitchen rod-outs,etc etc. Sometimes I see prices people post on these boards and realize they'd never survive here. People won't pay when they can get the same thing from Juan for half price.


----------

