# I'm just going to leave this here



## hanzkunzel (Feb 24, 2017)

I just got to a call and saw this. It was too good not to put it on here. (Complaint of a bad smell coming from kitchen) hahahaha


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

You may want to check out this thread :

https://www.plumbingzone.com/f7/winners-65210/


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

is that a 3 inch stack i see?


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Standard Drain said:


> is that a 3 inch stack i see?


That sure looks like a 3" drain. Except for the obvious mess. That is the most common way around here to do a kitchen island. Run 3" and a 3"X1-1/2" tee with a fitting clean out on top of the tee. There are 2 ways for us to do an island sink. This way with 3" over to a stack vent or the foot loop island vent (the one that goes up and turns back down). The 3" method is what most around here prefers. You just come up in the back corner of the cabinet and then tee over to the drain

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The Dane said:


> That sure looks like a 3" drain. Except for the obvious mess. That is the most common way around here to do a kitchen island. Run 3" and a 3"X1-1/2" tee with a fitting clean out on top of the tee. There are 2 ways for us to do an island sink. This way with 3" over to a stack vent or the foot loop island vent (the one that goes up and turns back down). The 3" method is what most around here prefers. You just come up in the back corner of the cabinet and then tee over to the drain
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk




I get that the 3" allows enough room for the water and the air so the lack of a vent isn't an issue but being 3" it must clog easily. Bow venting(the loop you describe) is really the best method for islands. 



A couple towns over there is this inspector of almost 30 years, he used to be a plumber. In his whole time as an inspector he has only allowed two autovents. His motto is that there is always a way to run a second pipe for a bow vent and he is right.


Besides, two 1-1/2" lines side by side will fit through a 2x4 wall, running that 3" is probably more of a pain most times.










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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> I get that the 3" allows enough room for the water and the air so the lack of a vent isn't an issue but being 3" it must clog easily. Bow venting(the loop you describe) is really the best method for islands.
> 
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> ...






An inspector "has allowed" AAV's? Who the hell is he to turn down something if it is approved?

I've seen 3" stacks under sinks here in FL with an AAV on them. The 3" comes up through the bottom of the cabinet, so the 3" stack does not have to be able to fit in a 4" wall since it's never inside the wall.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> Who the hell is he to turn down something if it is approved?





The local code in that area stated something to the effect of the plumber must prove that an aav is needed and that they can't run a bow vent or normal vent. He was only allowed to approve aavs if there was no other way.


So yeah aavs meet upc but the AHJ decided they weren't good enough. Frankly I agree. I have done enough drain cleaning to know that aavs don't allow proper flow and promote build up/clogging. They might be great for new construction cost wise but they are a terrible thing to do all the time. They will cause multiple costly issues over the life of the home/plumbing system.






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## hanzkunzel (Feb 24, 2017)

skoronesa said:


> I get that the 3" allows enough room for the water and the air so the lack of a vent isn't an issue but being 3" it must clog easily. Bow venting(the loop you describe) is really the best method for islands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's really cool that this was brought up and you are exactly right that older plumbers would agree on this. Here in Arkansas we are running off the 2006 state plumbing code books and Section 913 where bow drains are detailed is marked as Deleted. I actually took section 913 from the 2003 International Plumbing Code and slipped it into my code book so I would have that reference in case I needed it.

Now for my own experience I am a firm believer in 3in stacks for the island sinks. I've never had one clog up fully. When I do come by a (rare) clog you just plug up the basket strainer side and juice that disposal and it pops right on open. (And this is after checking all connections under sink and verifying all looks good and tight)

As for autovents, strangely enough as of last year 3in Autovents were approved to vent entire groups as long as you had at least one outside penetrating 3in vent for the entire building. In my opinion it is insanely retarded, but hey, gotta let them Lowes special people get in on some plumbing action.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> I get that the 3" allows enough room for the water and the air so the lack of a vent isn't an issue but being 3" it must clog easily. Bow venting(the loop you describe) is really the best method for islands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually running that 3" has always been the easiest way. 

("Being 3" it must clog easily") no I don't believe it clogs easily. I have only had to unclog 1 of those drains before. I would personally take the 3" over the loop vent if it was my own house.

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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> An inspector "has allowed" AAV's? Who the hell is he to turn down something if it is approved?
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen 3" stacks under sinks here in FL with an AAV on them. The 3" comes up through the bottom of the cabinet, so the 3" stack does not have to be able to fit in a 4" wall since it's never inside the wall.


Inspectors can easily turn down AAV if it is not code. I work in both ND and MN and in both AAV is absolutely illegal to use. Not to mention that that local inspector might be going by the locally adopted code and not the state standard.

Absolutely right the the 3" comes up through the floor so no worries about running in a 2x4 wall.

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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

for islands with sinks I run a trap below the floor like a shower base and just run a normal vent back between the floor joists....depending on the municipality you can or cant run an AAV..


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