# Methods for securing grab bars?



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Was wondering how others secure grab-bars to existing showers. Obviously the best method is to have wood behind the shower wall. I had a customer today that wanted a grab-bar put in, it was a one-piece shower that had a lot of space in-between the wall and shower. 

So, given the situation, what would you do?


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Depending on the manufacturer, they can recommend an adhesive for the back side of the unit.

Glue a piece of 3/4" plywood to back side and your good (if you can access it).

I would be more concerned with insurance issues and whether or not the unit itself can support the bar or a fall (grab).

The Kohler/Sterling units have plywood glued to the backside but I'm not sure if the unit itself is different from there standard enclosures.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Install blocking from the other side of the wall.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Depending on the manufacturer, they can recommend an adhesive for the back side of the unit.
> 
> Glue a piece of 3/4" plywood to back side and your good (if you can access it).
> 
> I would be more concerned with insurance issues and whether or not the unit itself can support the bar or a fall (grab).


So, are you saying that you have used an adhesive?





TheMaster said:


> Install blocking from the other side of the wall.



The only way is to add wood. The reason I ask is, a tech I work with, suggested, drill a hole, add spray foam, secure bar with screws, then the foam fills the gap, that would be there.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Indie said:


> The only way is to add wood. The reason I ask is, a tech I work with, suggested, drill a hole, add spray foam, secure bar with screws, then the foam fills the gap, that would be there.


Tell that "tech" to stfu next time he suggests some stupid stuff ok:thumbsup:


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Indie said:


> So, are you saying that you have used an adhesive?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. The ADA unit from sterling is quite substanial. BUT I did have a customer order one from home dummy and it was nothing more than plywood glued to the backside, nothing like the shower from my supplier.

I wish I could give you the name of the adhesive that I used but I can't remember the name of it, nothiing special.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Tell that "tech" to stfu next time he suggests some stupid stuff ok:thumbsup:


TM

I think you should post your menu for the day, you may need to dine on some natural mood enhacers.:laughing:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Indie said:


> Was wondering how others secure grab-bars to existing showers. Obviously the best method is to have wood behind the shower wall. I had a customer today that wanted a grab-bar put in, it was a one-piece shower that had a lot of space in-between the wall and shower.
> 
> So, given the situation, what would you do?


#1 Inforn the customer that what you are about to do, could cause damage to the fiber glass unit in the future [crack]

#2 Put the decision on them, have a release signed against any and all happenings concerning the installation and possible injuries if something breaks or pulls loose. I don't think you can make a 250 lb pull test on fiber glass even with blocking behind it. If the customer just needs something in the shower to steady themselves it should work fine. On the other hand if he/she is going to pull them selves up. I would walk from the job! Attorneys just don't understand.

#3 Put it in with molly bolts 5/16 drill size. Make sure that the bars do have concealed flanges. Cover the bolt heads with silicone. The regular molly will rust in a shower envioroment. I have not been able to ever find S.S. Mollys ....... I'm talking Mollys not Toggels ... When installing push the molly in and tighten the screw until it flanges out the back. When you get all 6 in pull the bolts and then attach the bar don't over tighten.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

#4. If that bar comes off the wall for any reason.......close you bank accounts and run....your finished.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Tell them we have to make some cuts in the walls to add backing lumber or......

They can get someone else. I second what Themaster said.



Indie said:


> Was wondering how others secure grab-bars to existing showers. Obviously the best method is to have wood behind the shower wall. I had a customer today that wanted a grab-bar put in, it was a one-piece shower that had a lot of space in-between the wall and shower.
> 
> *So, given the situation, what would you do?*


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings but you cant install a grab bar and then start putting limitations on its use such as "Ok sign right here saying you wont sue me and your only going to use this to steady yourself"......Things just dont work like that anymore if they ever did.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Protech said:


> Tell them we have to make some cuts in the walls to add backing lumber or......
> 
> They can get someone else. I second what Themaster said.


 
+1

I am of the opinion that they are better off without a grab bar than one that might not hold their weight.


I have in the past filled in the gap between the back side of the shower wall and the framing with wood, securing it all to the framing. I then worry about the shower wall not being able to move a little. Maybe that's not important, IDK.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

As some others have mentioned, if you cannot 100% guaranty that you can meet ADA standards, you have opened up a HUGE can of worms. Safety equipment like grab bars need to be installed correctly. Imagine if some disabled person went to reach up and use the bar and it ripped off the wall. The lawsuit that follows will bankrupt your company.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

If they go to grab that grab bar, you'll be grabbing your ankles :laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

1/2" allthread through to the next room... I would trust it.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Hang it from the ceiling joists , like a porch swing....


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> 1/2" allthread through to the next room... I would trust it.


How would you attach 1/2" allthread to a grab bar?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> How would you attach 1/2" allthread to a grab bar?


You so serious..............


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> How would you attach 1/2" allthread to a grab bar?


 I think it wll hook right on the side of the joke...:yes:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

:thumbsup:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> :thumbsup:


 Thanks for the flashburn.....:furious:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> :thumbsup:


Everyone knows that not a grab bar..........


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## Nevada Plumber (Jan 3, 2009)

I use products similar to this one when I have to install grab bars in a fiberglass shower when I can't get to it from the back of the shower. You just have to make certain you hit the studs dead center, and then they work well.

http://www.adaptiveaccess.com/solidmount.php


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Find the studs and screw the bar in to the studs with long stainless steel screws or quality decking screws.

You will probably have to put the bar at an angle in order for it to line up with the studs.


Or just use some elmers glue.


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## jc60618 (Jan 24, 2010)

During a recent renovation on high rise unit I found the grab bars were installed with strap togglebolts.


http://www.powers.com/product_04056.html


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Like some others have said, it's a huge liability . . . and for what? How much are you going to make off of installing a grab bar? And beyond the liability issue, grab bars can save someone's life. I cannot imagine the guilt if something went wrong later down the line.

When we get 'grab bar' calls, we refer them to a carpenter or someone who specializes in T.R. accessories. Grab bars are not plumbing IMHO.

We would sell them a new bathroom completely ADA compliant with materials and fixtures that are specifically made for that purpose rather than try to convert existing.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

mold one out of mighty putty. billy mays made a handle for his coffee cup and it worked.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Like some others have said, it's a huge liability . . . and for what? How much are you going to make off of installing a grab bar? And beyond the liability issue, grab bars can save someone's life. I cannot imagine the guilt if something went wrong later down the line.
> 
> When we get 'grab bar' calls, we refer them to a carpenter or someone who specializes in T.R. accessories. Grab bars are not plumbing IMHO.
> 
> We would sell them a new bathroom completely ADA compliant with materials and fixtures that are specifically made for that purpose rather than try to convert existing.


Now that is just smart business. However, a paying job is a paying job. The standards around here can get pretty low. In this area of Indiana, there are very blurry lines as to who does what kinda work.

What's funny is when I was looking at the job, I stepped into the shower to check something and the damn thing squeaked, because the base was moving. This was a semi-recent install, and I suspect that a "Carpenter" did the job. When I mentioned it to the customer she was like "Oh, well, its not that bad." Might have been a G.C. that did the work. That kinda stuff is why plumbers here, install grab-bars, it is highly likely that if we recommend someone they could take all the future work. So, if you want to look at it from a certain perspective, we sometimes act like a general contractor.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Indie said:


> Was wondering how others secure grab-bars to existing showers. Obviously the best method is to have wood behind the shower wall. I had a customer today that wanted a grab-bar put in, it was a one-piece shower that had a lot of space in-between the wall and shower.
> 
> So, given the situation, what would you do?


I would tell them I dont install grab bars my insurance does not cover it :thumbsup:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> Indie said:
> 
> 
> > Now that is just smart business. However, a paying job is a paying job. The standards around here can get pretty low. In this area of Indiana, there are very blurry lines as to who does what kinda work.
> ...


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I've installed many grab bars and my insurance does cover it. I cut the wall in the next room and install 2x12 blocking between the studs and very snug against the shower wall. I drill my holes in the shower wall a tad bit larger than the stainless screws I use to mount them. I then switch bits and drill a pilot hole for my mounting screw so my wood has no chance of spliting. I use a generous amount of silicone where the bar mounting base touches the shower wall. Becareful not to overtighten the bar to the shower wall or it can distort or crack the wall.

Real simple and it will never come off the wall. It also gives my carpenter friend a job patching the sheetrock.

With proper blocking Imo theres little risk involved.:thumbsup:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

To all who made posts on this topic.

We have one customer who lives in a home we plumbed 15 years ago and have worked for the man since.

So he gets in a traffic accident, has a few problems, the visiting nurse said if you want to stay in this house you will need a grab bar in the shower. So I get the call. Per some of these posts ... would you walk? 
Or would you explain your concerns as to mounting in a fiberglass unit, 
and ask for a release to be signed? At least the man knows that the bar is not a stop all from injury, he knows that we had concerns when we put it in. It did satisfy the nursing agency. If I had not done it, some handyman would have and his concerns would not have been as mine were.

Just another scenairo when this question come up. Installing these when a new home or bath is going in would require backing or blocking.

Retrofit is a different story.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Retrofit or not the grab bar must be installed as to not come down. No matter whats signed.

How about a guest that comes to stay at the house and the grab bar comes off the wall and they get hurt? Who do you think the lawyer is gonna sue? I know the answer....EVERYBODY

ADD> getting a waiver signed would do nothing but prove somones case.....It would prove the homeowner knew about the improper installation....making him liable AND it would aslo prove that the installing contractor KNEW the bar was not installed properly and tried to escape liability for his improper work. Case closed.....pay the man!!!!


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I agree with TM. The waiver proves negligence.

It is reasonable to assume that if a handicap bar is installed that it will support the weight that it is required to support per ADA requirements.

Ultimately, it's about safety and liability. There is a right way to do things and there is 'rigging' something to work.

If we can do it the 'right' way and stand behind it, we would. Some fiberglass walls are so thin, cutting into them may void the manufacturers warranty and compromise the integrity of the structure. In these cases we would refuse based on looking out for the homeowner's interest as well as our own.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

9 times out of 10 I yank the unit and set a roll in with proper grab bars. And possibly seat.

Grab bars are not something to put on "pretty good"

If I can't set a new unit it get's like TM said. Blocking....


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Matt said:


> 9 times out of 10 I yank the unit and set a roll in with proper grab bars. And possibly seat.
> 
> Grab bars are not something to put on "pretty good"
> 
> If I can't set a new unit it get's like TM said. Blocking....


Post #1 Indie asked about installing a bar in an existing shower.
Some how it got in to an ADA Installation.

Indie anything on this ADA, were the people handicaped?

I guess per the zone the onlyway out is, don't intall a ADA rated bar anywhere for anybody unless you do it per ADA. So put in a 3/4" x 18" nipple with 2 service 90's and 2 flanges. That would not be ADA rated!

ROTFLMAO at you guys/gals.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Indie said:


> Was wondering how others secure grab-bars to existing showers. Obviously the best method is to have wood behind the shower wall. I had a customer today that wanted a grab-bar put in, it was a one-piece shower that had a lot of space in-between the wall and shower.
> 
> So, given the situation, what would you do?


I quoted this as to remove any confusion to the scenario we are talking about..... 

If I am confronted with the above situation.... I will tell the customer the only safe and secure way to install a g-bar, is to open the other side of the wall and put in proper framing to secure the bar to....

That's it, end of answer....

Or, like in my original post....Hang it from the ceiling joists like a porch swing......


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Post #1 Indie asked about installing a bar in an existing shower.
> Some how it got in to an ADA Installation.
> 
> Indie anything on this ADA, were the people handicaped?
> ...


Handicap bars are not put in for aesthetics. They must function as intended. I only brought ADA up because like plumbing code, it is referred to for meeting minimum requirements for those who are disabled. If the home nurse was insisting on it, I would assume it would be for a good reason. Duh!


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## CAPLMBR (Oct 29, 2010)

*Moen Grab Bar Anchors*

I would say if you have a fiberglass shower stall the fiberglass wouldn't be able to hold a grab-bar weighted down by an obese geriatric, so TheMaster is right about the wood backing. Do not put your business at risk. However I would like to leave a link to a product I saw at a tradeshow that looks pretty nifty for use on say tiled in showers. 


http://www.ocelco.com/store/pc/Moen-Drywall-Hollow-Wall-Grab-Bar-Anchors-697p9112.htm


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## CAPLMBR (Oct 29, 2010)

*Unbelievable*

Nevermind


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