# My thoughts on Navien



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

The "new" and improved CR unit. This is right after I realized the entire flue collar / heat exchanger was totally smashed in.....On Friday morning :furious:


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

After a Overnight Saturday A.M. delivery of a 100 lb. new heater I was finally able to get these ppl some hot water. I really hope I never have to do another one of these. Kinda hard when people demand it and throw their check book at me to get started

Shhhhark Bite








And, yes, that is a union on the gas line....Told you guys I'd start doing it, even though I.......never mind:laughing: 









As I left it


----------



## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

In that first pic, are you saying Navien is # 1?


----------



## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

Nice work. You recovered from the bad start very well.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

para1 said:


> Nice work. You recovered from the bad start very well.


Thank You Para....still waiting for my list:laughing:


----------



## plumr (Jan 16, 2010)

where did you pipe your condesate to?


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

*Why?*

If you don't like them why did you install one??? Or am I reading the pictures wrong??


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

To a Little Giant, than to the laundry room drain. The condensate from this unit has a very high PH level (acid rain) and it eats up plastics and cast, so I run it to a soapy drain to help neutralize the PH. Noritz condensing units have their own built in neautralizer....I can discharge anywhere I want.



plumr said:


> where did you pipe your condesate to?


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Long story, the short of it is Navien gave me a customer who wanted one. I charged him full pop retail and they gave me the unit at a huge discount to get my thoughts on it and a little write up of what I thought about the unit / install. This job was the neighbor right next door. This guy waited a month for me to do it. As far as these people go, they like the product, they like me, they like the price....I'm not going to turn money down. Someone calls me up and says when can you start, I'm not about to try and sell something else (more expensive).

All the units I have done (about a dozen or so) have given me problems and I don't have time to have my good name ran through the mud because some crap manufacturer doesn't have their **** together. I have given this company more than enough chances to put out a quality product, it's just not there. Maybe in another year or so. They are new and if they want to stay in business they need to get their issueS sorted out. Let someone else deal with the headachs, it's not worth it to me. As I have said before, It's a better idea than it is a product. I actually like what they are trying to do, the engineering just isn't there.



3KP said:


> If you don't like them why did you install one??? Or am I reading the pictures wrong??


----------



## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Tankless said:


> Long story, the short of it is Navien gave me a customer who wanted one. I charged him full pop retail and they gave me the unit at a huge discount to get my thoughts on it and a little write up of what I thought about the unit / install. This job was the neighbor right next door. This guy waited a month for me to do it. As far as these people go, they like the product, they like me, they like the price....I'm not going to turn money down. Someone calls me up and says when can you start, I'm not about to try and sell something else (more expensive).
> 
> All the units I have done (about a dozen or so) have given me problems and I don't have time to have my good name ran through the mud because some crap manufacturer doesn't have their **** together. I have given this company more than enough chances to put out a quality product, it's just not there. Maybe in another year or so. They are new and if they want to stay in business they need to get their issueS sorted out. Let someone else deal with the headachs, it's not worth it to me. As I have said before, It's a better idea than it is a product. I actually like what they are trying to do, the engineering just isn't there.


What problems? Can you be specific? Thoughts on the 842? What about Rinnai's condensing unit?


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> What problems? Can you be specific? Thoughts on the 842? What about Rinnai's condensing unit?


Flow sensor issues. Mobo issues. Recirc pump issues / timer controller & remote controller problems.

842 is a fantastic unit. It will be replacing the 751 series units in the near future. It's very quiet and extremely stable. No complaints out of me on that unit, other than I'd like to see a little more GPM for the $$$

Have not done any Rinnai condensing. I missed the class on it, and I have very little desire to go. If my schedule allowes for it, I'd go, but I am not going to postpone my clients for them.


----------



## PAGEINC13 (Jan 27, 2010)

I dont mean to jack your thread but I cant tell from your pics but did you install the wye strainers in the hot, cold and recirc line...How important are they?? I just installed the Navien in a home that works with a solar hot water tank!! I still have to add the neutralizer to the condesate line. Thanks, Frank.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Why the hell would I do that? There's a screen on the cold inlet


----------



## PAGEINC13 (Jan 27, 2010)

Tankless said:


> Why the hell would I do that? There's a screen on the cold inlet


In the installation guide it shows the strainers...I didnt install them! This was my first tankless install so I dont know how important they are.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I have nev er seen that before. The manual I have in my books doesn't show that, but the one online does. It's most likley to catch the calcium scale chunks. Another brilliant idea from the Koreans :no:



PAGEINC13 said:


> In the installation guide it shows the strainers...I didnt install them! This was my first tankless install so I dont know how important they are.


----------



## PAGEINC13 (Jan 27, 2010)

Tankless said:


> I have nev er seen that before. The manual I have in my books doesn't show that, but the one online does. It's most likley to catch the calcium scale chunks. Another brilliant idea from the Koreans :no:


Hahaha...Funny you should say that...The home owners are Korean!!:laughing: Thanks for your insight...I should be good to go then cause the owner actually wants me to install this little contraption that filters calcium and other deposits...It installs close to the meter!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Hay, we were just talking about one of those:
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f22/airless-water-valve-7461/


----------



## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

What!!! 


The 751 is about all I sell! I'm straining to get $4k for one. Now Noritz is doing away with them in favor of a unit that will cost me about $500 more!

How do you know this?! When? I sure as hell hope they are planning on dropping the price. How can they possibly consider doing that? I have installed nothing but 751DVC for about 6 months.

If what you are saying is true then it's just one more thing to piss me off about Noritz. I love their products but their support and service sucks.

The other day I'm in a house going on and on about how highly rated we are with Noritz, how we are at the top of the installer list and how we are the only Platinum certified installer/service provider in the entire area and blah, blah, blah. The guy is sitting at his lap top so I tell him to go to Noritz's website, he does and we are not even listed at all!!! I've been in first position for over a year and now we are completely gone. What an idiot I looked like! So I call 2 different guys and give them an ear full and they assure me they will take care of it. That was on Friday. The next morning I get e-mails telling me it's resolved and I'm back. I try to go to the site to register a warranty and I get this scary message telling me I better not enter this site if I know what's good for me.

I'm getting close to the end with them I'm afraid. I love their products but every time I call I'm on hold for 20 - 30 minutes before I ever talk to a human being. Sometimes I just get hung up on when they go to answer (or at least it sounds like maybe they are trying to pick up the phone right before it goes dead). If I call someone directly (not through the toll free) I may get a return call within 48 hours roughly 25% of the time. What the hell is the deal. I'm selling the crap out of there product and I just don't think it's too much to ask to be able to get a little help when I need it.

I'm seriously starting to wonder what Rinnai's customer service is like? I know they are pouring a ton more money into advertising while Noritz doesn't seem to be doing anything. It won't be long before the Rinnai brand name becomes synonymous with tankless water heater the same way that people refer to Roto Rooter as the guy who snakes out your drain.

Man I hope your wrong about the 751s. I'm already getting undercut by yahoos selling undersized Rinnai R75 and Rheem pieces of crap all over town. Of course the ho doesn't really understand what they have been sold until it's much too late.

Ok I think I'm done now.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Deep breaths....deep breaths.....

LOL, ok, relax. The 751's will be around for a while according to Noritz. Its replacement would be the 842, however when that happends I do not know. I'd say at least a few years.

The TS is pretty bad, I know. I dread calling. Do you want the service manuals or something? I only call a few guys there, but I have their direct number. I won't wait on hold anymore. And it's rare that I have to talk to a tech. But once upon a time I needed them, now...not so much. You do realize you can call me and I can walk you through just about anything you might have don't you? I don't mind.....

Keep slangin your 751's and try out the Rannai's....you will see the difference after the first few you do. Lexus / Toyota ---- Acura / Honda.....kinda the same thing with the Noritz being the better. Research your numbers on what these things do and their efficiency too. They just revamped their units to finally catch up to the Noritz and they graph out similar at the 50-65 degree rise marker.....but that is new. If I thought for a second the Rinnai was better, I'd switch in a heart beat.....it's just not. May I suggest you eliminate the need for tech support or call when you break for lunch. It's never a good thing when you need them at the end of the day to get HW going.

I asked so many questions to these guys, and I studied the install / service manuals as well as the flow charts to learn these things inside and out. It's rare that I will NEED a tech, but every now and then something stupid comes up that I don't know about. 50% of the time they can help me. Last one was page 7 of the 842 manual. I didn't understand the diagonal arrow with the 4" indicator next to it. The tech thought it was the distance clearence from the face of the unit. I bought it and thanked him for his time. Mind you it was on speaker phone while I was working on something else. I'll be damned of I waste a half hour of my life waiting on someone to answer a phone call.

There are about 4 or 5 other people from this site that call me every now and then for questions on this stuff.....Don't worry, I won't make fun of your accent too much!!!!


----------



## marksranger (Feb 24, 2010)

I work for a major plumbing distributor and I see just as many Rinnai's come back as I do Navien's. The worst being a Rinnai flooded a house. It's just to say they all have some problems. You just have to remember they (tankless heaters) are new to the U.S. and still working through the problems. I prefer the Navien mainly because of the venting and no sandwhich effect. 
BTW: You should not be paying $4k for these units That is way overpriced.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Did I say I paid 4 grand for these units? Maybe the total install, but not the unit. I'm too tired to offer up my full responce to your comments, but I'll just say I disagree.


----------



## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> What!!!
> 
> 
> The 751 is about all I sell! I'm straining to get $4k for one. Now Noritz is doing away with them in favor of a unit that will cost me about $500 more!
> ...


I'm pretty sure he was referring to the statement in red and yes, this is the total install cost for a properly sized unit, installed properly, without shortcuts, and it most certainly is not "way too much". I've sold a lot of 751 DVC in the $3800 - $4200 range and people absolutely love the product and the service they receive.


----------



## marksranger (Feb 24, 2010)

It appeared to me that he was paying $4k a unit.


----------

