# DELTA COPY CATS... which one is good???



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Now that the DELTA FAUCET COMPANY
is selling only these god awful cheap assed plastic faucets 

their has to be a decent DELTA Copy cat brand out that is taking up the slack ........

Our plumbing supplier in town gave me a kitchen faucet called a Olympia that looks like the old Delta 400 model..... they are even fed up with Delta too..

does anyone know of a good faucet that uses DELTA 
parts???



*Thank you Delta. for going to hell in a handbasket*
.. 
*Delta faucet company has crawled up its *
*own ass and has died up there*
* .....totally believeing its own bullshi/........:yes::yes:*


the people running that company ought to be taken out and shot


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Diamond seal technology faucets are all crap. So are there two handle faucets with there plastic lined water ways. Delta is now just a "shinny, polished, covered turd"


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

I installed one the other day the customer purchased at HD. I was disappointed in the feel of the fixture. I am waiting on one of these genius Companies to throw away the crappy yellow brass and start making valve bodies out of stainless steel.

BTW I was just as disappointed in both of there number one competitors. It seems we need to remind them through a lack of support that the American craftsman still exist whether they want to be a part of it or not. Looking forward to new Mfgs who recognize quality over there greedy big business bottom lines.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I thought they sucked BEFORE they started with all this plastic crap. It's reached "haiti" status at this point.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Pioneer brand, made by Delta, but less $. I'd only use their ks & lav faucets. One of the supply house mngrs said he wouldn't put one in the wall. That was all I needed to hear.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Proud Plumber said:


> I installed one the other day the customer purchased at HD. I was disappointed in the feel of the fixture. I am waiting on one of these genius Companies to throw away the crappy yellow brass and start making valve bodies out of stainless steel.
> 
> BTW I was just as disappointed in both of there number one competitors. It seems we need to remind them through a lack of support that the American craftsman still exist whether they want to be a part of it or not. Looking forward to new Mfgs who recognize quality over there greedy big business bottom lines.


 
Amen to that. I used to be a Delta guy, but the plastic crap they're printing their name on these days is an insult to our trade. We used to install customer supplied fixtures all the time when I was in Pueblo, and the Delta products (at least the ones sold at the big box stores) are utter crap.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

If you want some cheap delta crap, premier makes some dirt cheap knockoffs. I keep a few on the truck for the "budget" customers.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

See who can guess what brands these faucets are? HINT: Both are nationally known brands, and NOT the same.

The inlet shanks are plastic lines, all the waterway parts are plastic.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

According to the rep Delta is backing up and making the 520's and 400's with copper tubes and fittings...didnt say when.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

stillaround said:


> According to the rep Delta is backing up and making the 520's and 400's with copper tubes and fittings...didnt say when.


 

I bet it has nothing to do with the complaints seen here or from customers,


it's a money decision and they are probably spending a lot more than they had to, keeping up with the back side of the equation of customer relations.


I could be wrong...


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

*Proflo*

Mark I picked up a proflo kitchen faucet from ferg... caught it on sale paid 25.00 single handle w/sprayer over the summer time. uses same parts as delta (took it apart to see how it was made)


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*too many people dropping them*



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I bet it has nothing to do with the complaints seen here or from customers,
> 
> 
> it's a money decision and they are probably spending a lot more than they had to, keeping up with the back side of the equation of customer relations.
> ...


 
no you are not wrong, :laughing:

they are in trouble.... In our state the biggest plumber supplier LEES , shows you a Kohler faucet to replace the junk that Delta is pushing..and they even shake their heads and apoligise to you for Delta....and what this junk are selling....

all the suppliers dont want to pass this crap on to their plumbers, cause they know half of it will come back to them defective .....and that cost them money.

 they are getting a bunch of the defective crap back....

 the dumbasses at DELTA still wont admit they are wrong , but eventually their production grinds to a halt and their bottom line $$$ begins to crash.

they have slit their own wrists, not it is just a matter of time before they bleed out and the upper management has to be replaced....

I hope they read this post......


 ..


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Delta has been turning out a crap product for decades.


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## Nevada Plumber (Jan 3, 2009)

I don't think Delta gives a crap about what the plumbers think about their product as long as they still move a ton of product through the big box stores. I hope that comes back to bite them hard.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Everything in my house is moen. Maybe it's a regional thing, but delta has been known as garbagio since I started in the biz. That's not to say I haven't installed one or two along the way, but it's probably been 10 years. They were poor quality then. Are you telling me that they have by some means gotten worse?

Their R+D dept must be like "a rudderless ship in a vast sea of confusion..."


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I've been recommending Moen for over 30 yrs. They're not as good as they use to be, but at least I don't have to put parts in it every couple of years. Customers sometimes act funny when I hand them a bill for $100 for replacing seat cups & springs. I just tell them that's cheap.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I personally have had great success with Delta. We provide a lifetime LABOR and material warranty on Delta T/S faucets we provide and install. Been doing that for the last ten years and I've rarely had a call back. Maybe 10 out of 4,000 (not exaggerated).

All manufacturers are trying to find ways to cut costs. I remember the nationwide uproar in magazines when Kohler started putting Fluidmasters in their tanks. And now they are manufacturing products in other countries and shipping them here. Kohler, Moen, Price Phister, and American Standard have all used plastic components to one degree or another. I'm not sure if Delta was the first but they certainly are not alone.

Delta also provides a lifetime warranty on all of their finishes. So does Kohler, as long as the finish is chrome.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> ...their has to be a decent DELTA Copy cat brand out that is taking up the slack ......


In the past I have tried a couple of knock offs trying to get something done on the cheap. I usually regretted it. A lot of the Delta copiers say they are compatible with Delta parts but the ones I've seen are not quite right. You can use their off brand parts in the off brand faucet but not in a genuine Delta faucet. Same goes for the OEM parts. They're good in a Delta but not quite perfect in an off brand copy.

They seem to be "almost" a perfect match.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I was told by my Barnett rep that their premier delta knockoffs are actually made at the same factories in china as delta. They just don't stamp is "Delta" and have different packaging.

They do the same thing with allot of their premier stuff. Like how the premier water heaters are actually American heater co. but they just get a different paint job and sticker.

It's not a copy. It's actually the same faucet just without the Delta name. I just wish they could have gotten Moen to agree to that. That would have been sweet.



plbgbiz said:


> In the past I have tried a couple of knock offs trying to get something done on the cheap. I usually regretted it. A lot of the Delta copiers say they are compatible with Delta parts but the ones I've seen are not quite right. You can use their off brand parts in the off brand faucet but not in a genuine Delta faucet. Same goes for the OEM parts. They're good in a Delta but not quite perfect in an off brand copy.
> 
> They seem to be "almost" a perfect match.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

We install alot of Delta products and rarely have any problems. I believe they make the best shower valve industry. I had better luck with Delta than Price Phister. About the only time I install Moen is if it is HO supplied. I do like Moen faucets.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*they made the best*



PlungerJockey said:


> We install alot of Delta products and rarely have any problems. I believe they make the best shower valve industry. I had better luck with Delta than Price Phister. About the only time I install Moen is if it is HO supplied. I do like Moen faucets.


 
have you had the joy of trying out one of their new all plastic tub and shower bodies yet????

they are junk....

I still have about maybe 50 delta , 1500 and 1700 brass rough inn shower bodies in my shop and I have been slowly going through them over the years,,,, I think I use a few a month so I am good for a long time 

once they are gone I suppose I will be going to Moen
maybe I will be retired by then.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I have not seen the new plastic valve controls. Post a pic if you get a chance.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Me neither*



PlungerJockey said:


> I have not seen the new plastic valve controls. Post a pic if you get a chance.


Actually, I apologise...I got a little carried away..
. I have not seen one yet either, but have only been told of the new PEX body in the pipeline by my salesman....he was not too happy about this new product that they were supposed to be selling soon.

Perhaps they are not junk...I could be wrong..
but from what I have already seen, I am willing to bet
that they will be as bad as the rest..... 

..


I was told that they are only supposed to be available soon starting out in california....


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

The new Delta and Moen Valves have been avail. in Canada for quite some time , if we are referring to the ones with pex inlets for the hot and cold . The shower and tub tapping are still copper pipe size , although some come with the male thread on there too.

I really do not know why people are so Hell bent against PEX, I have been in the trade for 13 years and have only done a hand full of copper piping in new construction . Since I have moved back east , I have done a lot more copper work and am quite proficient at it . But .. I'm a pex guy through and through .. Less time less money ( for client and Boss-man ) I guess it's just a case of teaching old dogs new tricks...IMO


LOL sorry for the thread steal and the pot stir ... back to business as usual.


Lifer


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I've been using those for 5 years now. Love'em.



Lifer said:


> The new Delta and *Moen Valves* have been avail. in Canada for quite some time , if we are referring to the ones *with pex* inlets for the hot and cold . The shower and tub tapping are still copper pipe size , although some come with the male thread on there too.
> 
> I really do not know why people are so Hell bent against PEX, I have been in the trade for 13 years and have only done a hand full of copper piping in new construction . Since I have moved back east , I have done a lot more copper work and am quite proficient at it . But .. I'm a pex guy through and through .. Less time less money ( for client and Boss-man ) I guess it's just a case of teaching old dogs new tricks...IMO
> 
> ...


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Hey Killer...you are from Chicago and everyone dislikes the alternative to Moen... which sucks with hard water. Sometimes I think the mental capacity of a plumber stops and shuts down once they see a cartridge can be reversed and cover their piping mistakes..hence the Moen love affair. That said Delta does it now too. Northern Fla. , Alabama, some of Georgia like Delta. 
Big plus for Delta...the 10000 tub shr rough valve which can accomodate the 1700 series cartridge. The pretty decent trim designs and finish options thruout the line ( I did like the Monticello from Moen but their trim engineering sucked ). The relative predictable ease of rebuilding one and available parts. The many over 20 yr old faucets all doing well.
Minuses...its turned into crap....the box stores are Deltas market and the plumber is nothing. 
Its something you can tell customer to get if they want to shop the box and steer them away from price pfister.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Wolverine Brass has some good faucets, anything from the Finale series is solid brass. Body and water ways. This single handle faucet can't be beat. Solid brass, and 17ga pop up and tailpiece all for around $75 bucks.


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I been using the Wolverine Brass faucets for the past 1 1/2 - 2 years I really like there product I have had no issues. But I mainly use Delta products when it comes to remodels and new construction. I use the WB in replacements on service calls.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Hey Killer...you are from Chicago and everyone dislikes the alternative to Moen... which sucks with hard water.


I was never a big fan of Moen either, it's a better grade of crap than Delta, but it's still crap, and the Moen posi temps can't be reversed. Even when I was doing service work we tried to sell Symmons, Kohler, or Grohe as a better value for the money, but if forced to work simply on price they got a Moen.

And city of Chicago water is naturally soft from coming from a lake as opposed to a well, which is probably why there are galvanized risers that are well over a hundred years old still in service there.


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## Pipe Dreams (Feb 10, 2011)

stillaround said:


> Sometimes I think the mental capacity of a plumber stops and shuts down once they see a cartridge can be reversed and cover their piping mistakes..hence the Moen love affair.


I hear you on that lol. The big "TOP" is tough to find sometimes. Moen's warranty and customer service is second to none though. All you need is a story and a part number and they'll send you whatever you need for free.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

yes they can.



Killertoiletspider said:


> I was never a big fan of Moen either, it's a better grade of crap than Delta, but it's still crap, *and the Moen posi temps can't be reversed*. Even when I was doing service work we tried to sell Symmons, Kohler, or Grohe as a better value for the money, but if forced to work simply on price they got a Moen.
> 
> And city of Chicago water is naturally soft from coming from a lake as opposed to a well, which is probably why there are galvanized risers that are well over a hundred years old still in service there.


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## Nevada Plumber (Jan 3, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> and the Moen posi temps can't be reversed.


The posi-temps can be reversed. You just pull the cartridge out, and rotate it 180 degrees.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

All the plumbers are pi$$ed off cause now you cant just spin the center, you gotta actually pull the retaining clip. :laughing::laughing:

Pipe it correctly, freaks. 

(I once replaced a Moen with a Grohe, on a remodel. Some S.O.B. did the old cartridge flip, and I didn't catch it. That was a costly mistake)


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> I was never a big fan of Moen either, it's a better grade of crap than Delta, but it's still crap, and the Moen posi temps can't be reversed. Even when I was doing service work we tried to sell Symmons, Kohler, or Grohe as a better value for the money, but if forced to work simply on price they got a Moen.
> 
> And city of Chicago water is naturally soft from coming from a lake as opposed to a well, which is probably why *there are galvanized risers that are well over a* *hundred years old still in service there.*[*/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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