# Self Made Plumbing Companies VS. those handed the Family Business



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Years ago I was in a CEU class for my hours and I sparked ire in 2 plumbers when I made a statement that self created plumbers and hand me down family run plumbing companies are far different in many ways. 


One of those ways is the effort, the creation of taking nothing and building it into something. 


Of course, those 'sons' who were in the room that took over basically a business already running full steam, just add a live body got huffy about my statement. 


Most family run companies run off reputation from years prior. That's "bank" that's coming without trying. That means you know if you keep the phone number that it's going to ring, just add plumber in a van or truck and bingo, you're plumbing.


But when you're starting from zero, no one knows you from adam, taking a company name and building it into a reputable plumbing company with a harvest of good customers that will call you back, paining your way to a good reputation so that you can almost stop advertising in the many ways that companies do, 

that seems like a road paved by the means of struggle, the means of true dedication to get the balloon up into the sky to stay floating high.


When you have some that was handed the golden egg, firmly placed in the nest and all you have to do is literally sit on it so it hatches, that isn't the same renegade design of struggle to sacrifice to success. 


I personally wasn't handed anything. There are no plumbers in my family. I started from the ground. Am I jealous that I wasn't handed a family business? Of course not. That'd be a free pass of sorts to say I truly ran a plumbing business.

I've learned so much from the humble beginnings, something that many who were given the keys to say drive it, never learn.

I'm glad my family didn't already bait the hook for me so I just had to throw the line out there to get the fish.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

What, like in tug of war? Where's the poll?


NEvermind, there's the poll.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I don't see many shops really go multi generations.

Usually the nepotism gets the overhead so fat that it collapses on itself.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> I don't see many shops really go multi generations.
> 
> Usually the nepotism gets the overhead so fat that it collapses on itself.


 

I saw one company collapse upon itself because everyone wanted to make a million bucks when they were making only thousands a week. 

It imploded, gone for 13 years now.


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

I worked for my father for 15 years and when he was out of town I ran the business but he always had the final say on any bid. I would bid work and tell him the amount he would tell me add a few more thousand to it then we wouldn`t get the job. I would work on the bids on my own time then we don`t get the job and I would have no work for me or my guys. After one of many blow out`s we had I had enough and went on my own two years ago. It was the hardest but best dession I have every made in my life.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Years ago I was in a CEU class for my hours and I sparked ire in 2 plumbers when I made a statement that self created plumbers and hand me down family run plumbing companies are far different in many ways.
> 
> 
> One of those ways is the effort, the creation of taking nothing and building it into something.
> ...


That wasn't one of the G--l-r boys from western hills was it. They are living on the legacy of their father and grandfather.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

deerslayer said:


> That wasn't one of the G--l-r boys from western hills was it. They are living on the legacy of their father and grandfather.


 
Hahaaaaa!! That's true, and that was when the plumber's union (Local 56-58) was a strong one before they joined LU392.


I worked for them, new construction in 98'. Tried to get into their commercial service division but so glad I didn't. I wouldn't be walking today.

You definitely know what I'm talking about though. I was in KY when I had that class and made that statement.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I wouldn't begrudge a shop owner because he inherited it. That's not my business to judge if somebody has an easy ride in business. 

If "gramps" builds a shop and the grandson reap the fruits of easy living, then good for him.

What's more important is if they run a business of good character.


This talk about baited hooks and golden eggs actually does make you sound a little jealous, Dunbar.

Do you feel this way about all "passed down" businesses?

What alternative would you offer for a "gramps" to do with his business in lieu of having his sons and grandsons run it?

In my opinion, it's really up to gramps, but I'd like to hear what you think, too.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

To be jealous, you have to want what someone else has. 


I like my own, no one elses. 


Creating from the ground up taught me more than being handed on a plate.


But someone recently I spoke to that has had the family business handed to them was complaining of running a business... and I laughed. 


:laughing:


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

i actually think the ones that inherit it are the ones harder to work for they had a silver pipe wrench most of them not all their hole life and then they get to wear the big man shoes and the stop appreciating what their workers go through or how hard we work. or mess we get into. As for someone that starts from 0 to something they had both sides employer and employee. they seem to be more appreciative and more understanding that sometimes you cant have your way because of this or that nothing wrong with someone that was givin a company but i do tip my hat off to all and every plumber that started from 0 and made some thing or not either way they tried no free rides or nothing


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## snapchain (Apr 4, 2012)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> To be jealous, you have to want what someone else has.
> 
> I like my own, no one elses.
> 
> ...


Is that what sparked your post? You met one unappreciated person who was handed a business.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> To be jealous, you have to want what someone else has.
> I like my own, no one elses.
> Creating from the ground up taught me more than being handed on a plate.
> 
> But someone recently I spoke to that has had the family business handed to them was complaining of running a business... and I laughed.


I dunno, to me, it sounds like their inheritance is a problem for you, whatever its' definition may be.

I don't know why you'd laugh at them complaining about running a business, most of us do, don't we?

They aren't disqualified just because they didn't start the business. They have the headaches of being the boss, just like the rest of us. The decisions that have to be made don't change, advertising, insurance and management and customer relations and human resources are still thorns. It's still a chore to maintain an established business, no matter who's name is on the bosses door. 

Maybe they wouldn't not have been able to start and run a business from the ground up or maybe they could have and done even better than the first generation, who knows?

I just don't see the need to have a spitting contest with the other guy for being a successful second or third generation business.... or a guy that buys a successful business or anything else. Again, I say that good character is most important.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*American way, right?*

I think more of what gets me is like the shop I worked for years, the son in-law came into the picture when I was still there. Is "second General" now and will take over completely in a few years. He'll be licensed fully yet never held a wrench in his hand his whole life. 
Ah well such is how it goes,,,,,,,, I guess.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

What a broad brush you use. Must be nice to live in your world where you can compartmentalize and label people so easily.

I guess the plumber who starts from scratch with $100,000.00 in the bank has it easier than the plumber who starts with nothing?

I guess the plumber who had good parents had it easier than the plumber who had to drop out of school?

Assuming you started from nothing, what would you know about being "handed" a business? There are many plumbers who will tell you working for family sucked because the boss was harder on them. The expectations were greater. They were asked to 'give' more to the company store because they were family. They had to learn all aspects of the business because Daddy wanted him to pay his dues.

So, when the baton is passed, you could hardly say the business was "handed" to them like an inheritance. Many have earned the "right" to run the family business. I would imagine that taking over a first, second, or third generation successful business comes with even greater pressure.

Who wants to be the one to take it over and have it fail? That pressure must be enormous.

I know someone who let his son takeover the family business and the business skyrocketed - all due to the son being a smart business man.

I know someone who inherited a plumbing business (3rd generation) and the business is almost dead. 

I know someone who started a plumbing business from scratch, barely holding on.

I know someone who started a plumbing business from scratch, built it up very quickly, and now it's gone.

Point is, it doesn't matter where you started. What matters is where you finish.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I agree on your point that taking over a business that's successful has it's pressure. Maintaining the "old mans name" for example. And like you I've seen the business sky rocket as in the last company I mentioned ( 2nd generation). 
I've worked hard to maintain my dads good name and though in a different trade I find it hard to do sometimes so your point is well taken PC.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

of corse buisness wise yes the person with 100000 in the bank has it easier and the person that had a hand me down buisness yea he has it easier. think about it a company from scratch is exaclty what it is scratch no money to fall on no client pretty much start with hand tools and take it day by day if you eat is totaly up to you on. as for some one that inherited or has 100000 in bank thats alot of cushon seriously it is i mean a buisness already established already has clientale already has credit with suppliers already has equipment if you inherit a succesful plumbing co and it fails its your fault for being a complete dumb arse if you have 100000 and your buisness fails with in the first year or two you should have learned how manage your money a lil better. a person that starts from scratch has a succesfull buisness and last years and years is smart buisness person many scenarios may be played out


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

revenge said:


> of corse buisness wise yes the person with 100000 in the bank has it easier and the person that had a hand me down buisness yea he has it easier. think about it a company from scratch is exaclty what it is scratch no money to fall on no client pretty much start with hand tools and take it day by day if you eat is totaly up to you on. as for some one that inherited or has 100000 in bank thats alot of cushon seriously it is i mean a buisness already established already has clientale already has credit with suppliers already has equipment if you inherit a succesful plumbing co and it fails its your fault for being a complete dumb arse if you have 100000 and your buisness fails with in the first year or two you should have learned how manage your money a lil better. a person that starts from scratch has a succesfull buisness and last years and years is smart buisness person many scenarios may be played out


I beg to differ. Everyone has advantages and disadvantages. The guy just starting out without a family (living at home), has a huge advantage over the guy with money, a family to feed, a house payment to make etc. Having a set of you know what gives you a slight advantage over me. I'll bridge that gap with brains and charm though.  

I think some people tend to focus on other people's advantages and overlook their disadvantages. Oftentimes, you have no clue what the other person's struggles are. 

Furthermore, we all get to play our own game. I had it harder, therefore, I am better is bullshiot IMO! Do you rise above by continuing to grow? or Do you tear others down to your level to feel superior?

Anyone that is still working today, whether running a large company (small company or one-man shop) or working for 'the man' (or possibly the 'boss lady') should feel proud! 

To be or not to be . . . . . . . . it all depends on the individual. What you may see as easier looking in from the outside, may be very far from reality. Isn't it arrogant to suggest it would be easier being that you haven't walked it?


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Its not arrogant its the truth three people starting wanting to be the boss or run a company
1 had a company handed to him with tools workers and trucks accounts customers everty thing
1 has 100,000 dollars he won in the lottery he gonna start new
1 has to start from scratch
honestly who has it easier really common sense would say the first then the second and the last. now by no means am i saying ones lazy or running a company is easy or ones better than the other what i am saying is the way they start the one that got the company handed to him has a better chance if i had a choice i would rather be the first guy


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*Too much overthinking from CC and PC on this one*

So I'll make this a very easy response 



You gotta ask yourself.... 



How easy do ya got it.




From the way the poll is running, lots of self starters. Congrats. It's definitely an accomplishment worth recognizing as it took many days/months/years to build.


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

Do poor hot chicks resent the Paris Hiltons and Kim Kardashians of the world? I bet the poor ones would be more diligent, hard working media whores than the ones born with silver spoons in their mouths.


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## HOT H2O (Sep 23, 2011)

I left the family business 10 years ago in exchange for the beautiful sunny weather of South Florida. I've had to start my company in a town where I knew nobody. it's definitely a lot harder than taking on Dad's business, or even starting one in the town where you grew up. 

to this day, my best advertising is word of mouth. but I've always felt that if I took on this venture where I grew up... where everybody knew that Billy was a plumber.... I think I would have seen faster growth.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Clearly the OP’s perspective is clouded by his own circumstances…..

This entire thread is like any thing else where some one forms an opinion about some thing and has no direct knowledge or experience of facts or both sides of the situation….

And forms an opinion solely based on his limited knowledge and figures it is there for a fact. 

IMO this is a foolish assumption…..


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I have noticed not one person, in this thread, who was given a business, has said they are proud to have been given the opportunity. There must be some shame, guilt, or something. Proud people speak up quickly when challenged. 

I


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Every situation is different. Spoiled brats are spoiled brats, and hard workers are hard workers, whether you were handed the biz or started.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Their are a million stories in the naked city...
and everyone has their own cross to bear.. and that 
cross is usually very different for each soul.... 

some people god blessed with brains , good looks
personality, charm and talent  

some people are born into an inheritance of
hundreds of millions of dollars just for being born... 

others totally missed the boat right out of the gate 
simply or would not apply themselves to anything but 
drinking and whoreing around

everyone was dealt a hand to play... and wether you like what you were dealt, that is just too bad.. now you can either make lemonaid out of lemons , or cry in your beer and slide down into the dark zone

being handed a family plumbing business is not really 
a bed of roses in the whole scheme of things .....

Having something like a plumbing business
handed to you is more like a life challenge....... 
and most everyone wants to see you fail and wishes you would fail
and prays for your demise:yes:



some companies have no son or family legacy
to pass on the business to so it all ends with them

while other folks are so arrogant, stubborn and bone headed that they think they are immortal and never are willing to give up control of the family business to the next generation...
 they want lip service paid to their egos and then 
its too late to go back and mend the fences that they 
tore down years earlier.

I have seen a lot of things happen in our town
over the last 50 years....... 
I have watched companies go down in flames due to incompetence, nepotism, how about a key man death in the family. with no business life insurance to carry on afterwards....

you name it....it has happenned

I am grateful to have a family business, but things were never easy
and I have covered my ass in many ways to avoid the disasters I have seen go down.... 

like the song goes....
its all in the draw of the cards.....



now I got to go installl a water heater


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

My Wife and I own our business that was started by her father.

I had worked for him for roughly 10 yrs when he fell over dead from a heart attack. 

In the blink of an eye, everything fell on me. I wasn't clueless, but damn close.

Yes, we paid his wife money for the business. Probably not what it was actually worth, but still.

People always said I had it easy when I started in the trade because my FIL got me in. Guess what- I pulled just as many pissed filled urinals off the wall as anyone else. I worked all the night jobs, breaking concrete.

People said the golden egg thing about me when he died. The people that say that chit don't have a GD clue. 

I damn near killed this business and brought it back, does that count?

I'm sure there is a pride factor with starting your own. My wife has a greater emotional attachment with the business than I do. She was a kid when he started the biz, grew up with it. Maybe I'd feel different had we started from scratch. I'm really not all puffy-chested about it.

None of this really matters in the end. Whether you started your business with two nickels in your pocket or were handed the keys to the shop, you still have to do the things that make the business successful. There are no shortcuts.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> I have noticed not one person, in this thread, who was given a business, has said they are proud to have been given the opportunity. There must be some shame, guilt, or something. Proud people speak up quickly when challenged.
> 
> I


This thread should have been titled "Damn The Silver Spooners"

Tex, you too are making an assumption. Are there are as many inheritance owners as there are self started owners on the PZ? Is it possible the lack of response from inheritance owners is because there are only a precious few that have been able to survive?

Based on the survival rate of small businesses, I would say it is at least as hard to successfully operate an inherited enterprise but probably much more difficult. Only a fraction of plumbing businesses are multi-generational.

Based on risk factors, I would say it is much more difficult to successfully operate an inherited business. A one man shop (OMS) "boot strap" start up has ability and agility that an established company cannot afford. An OMS can always revert back to Mom taking a job to pay rent and buy food while Pop beats the street with business cards, flyers, and networking. That is not an option for the inheritance owner that also inherited debt, overhead, and employees.

Based on personal experience, it is most challenging for a son/daughter to come up in a business working for their family and not be plowed under by unrealistic expectations of fellow workers, family members, the family head, and most of all...themselves.

I had the great honor of working under my father when he worked in maintenance at a commercial laundry. I had an uncle that was very successful in business (not plumbing) and I saw first hand how that played out with his family. My business started with a small box of flea market tools and MizBiz sitting at the kitchen table with a note pad and pencil waiting for the phone to ring.

Being an employee, being an original owner, or being an inheritance owner...they are all certainly different but to suggest that one has it harder than the other is unfounded and an obscene insult to their struggles.

I've changed my mind....I think the thread should have been titled "Let's Justify Class Envy".


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*good for you*



Colgar said:


> My Wife and I own our business that was started by her father.
> 
> I had worked for him for roughly 10 yrs when he fell over dead from a heart attack.
> 
> ...


good for you, I am sure it was a challenge for you to
have to deal with something like this being thrust
 upon you all of a sudden.......

I have a freind that his wifes parents were killed in a 
boating accident on the Ohio river 15 years ago... Him and his wife inherited a 10 million dollar business.... 
He has done well, and has built the business up..


its all in the draw of the cards.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank you MasterMark for putting a face to the other side.

Revenge - Again, your perspective is limited. The best you can assert as fact is that it might be easier for you if you had the million dollars. I would argue that the spoiled brat, silver spoon set, have it harder because they are ill-equipped to deal with the stress and responsibility that comes with owning a business.

I remember my oldest whining that her friends don't have to do their own laundry, didn't have to buy their own car, got a free college education, had Moms who were 'real Moms' etc. Life was not fair to her - I was the bad Mom. She had it hard. 

Fast forward a bit, she now understands they had it harder because they were not prepared for the real world.

She loved and appreciated her $1,800.00 old man Buick. She knows how to look for and get a job. She is guaranteeing that her investment in College will pay off by getting top grades. And she knows, without a doubt, that she has a Mom that was strong enough to be a Mom, rather than a friend.

IMO, her friends had it harder. Time is telling the story. 

P.S. - Kim & Paris have nothing. Their obsessive desire to be in the spotlight speaks volumes. Their behavior suggests they are empty inside.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> This thread should have been titled "Damn The Silver Spooners"
> 
> Tex, you too are making an assumption. Are there are as many inheritance owners as there are self started owners on the PZ? Is it possible the lack of response from inheritance owners is because there are only a precious few that have been able to survive?
> 
> ...


Thats what happens when the person that has envy is looking into the shop window...... standing on the outside looking in.....

They really have no idea or clue what they are viewing but what they think they see...


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> plbgbiz said:
> 
> 
> > Tex, you too are making an assumption. Are there are as many inheritance owners as there are self started owners on the PZ? Is it possible the lack of response from inheritance owners is because there are only a precious few that have been able to survive?
> ...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Epox said:


> I think more of what gets me is like the shop I worked for years, *the son in-law* came into the picture when I was still there. Is "second General" now and will take over completely in a few years.* He'll be licensed fully yet never held a wrench in his hand his whole life. *
> Ah well such is how it goes,,,,,,,, I guess.


 








I have worked in several companies where some warehouse worker or service plumber dates and then marries the boss's daughter.......makes people wonder if there is an ulterior motive for that strategic move.......:whistling2:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

*...*



plbgbiz said:


> This thread should have been titled "Damn The Silver Spooners"
> 
> Tex, you too are making an assumption. Are there are as many inheritance owners as there are self started owners on the PZ? Is it possible the lack of response from inheritance owners is because there are only a precious few that have been able to survive?
> 
> ...


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

In my observation...an inherited business in any field...will either be made better by the new generation ( GE started somewhere!) or it will be run into the ground , frequently within one generation.


For the OP...... If your father started and ran a very successful plumbing business......are you saying that as he gets old and needs to retire...you just let that business fade into oblivion, while you try to start up a completely new operation?

What's wrong with CONTINUING the business...making it bigger and better. Then when you get old and gray, the new generation can have this discussion all over again!


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*screwing your way to the top*

:laughing:


Tommy plumber said:


> plbgbiz said:
> 
> 
> > This thread should have been titled "Damn The Silver Spooners"
> ...


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Regardless of starting on your own or working a family business both are extremely hard in my opinion. 

My grandfather ran his own auto shop later in life, and as the oldest grandson I always, and I mean always had to do %hit work whenever I showed up. This I believe was for two reasons. One, like I said I was the oldest. Two, my grandfather was a mean ole former marine who thought kids came into this world to provide free labor for parents and grandparents. :laughing:

Even though he had name recognition, many customers, family, etc... It was just not feasible to keep the business going. Once I had a long discussion with my dad about it, and we agreed it was just not worth it to pursue. As the condition of keeping it going was on my dads shoulders, and he did not want that burden, even with a young son(18) who was willing and excited to try. 

Having opened my own business and celebrating every month I can keep it open, I say it is hard to start a business from scratch and grow it, and keep it going. 


No two people are the same, so there is no way to determine what success they will have.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

There's a huge difference between being handed keys to the office of a company pulling 6 figures a year 


to 

creating a name for yourself, list of clientell, repeat customer base. 


That takes years, with the opposite of that design is "just another day with new faces" 


and that is something a lot of you are failing to identify and accept. 


As I repeat, anyone can get thrown keys to the car to drive it away, 


but having the car disassembled, having to put the motor in it TO drive away is a totally different and *earned* experience.

The silver spoon analogy was very fitting to this discussion. 


Poll shows 16 of you are self starters.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

ms cat what i said was starting of a buisness would be easier for the one than inheirted than the one with 100000 and the one started from scratch. i never said it wasnt hard for the silverspooner i just said it would be easier its common sense. i couldnt explain it any better. Every one has their oppionions about evey class o : silver spooners have it easier cause they had everything giving to them, silver spooner have it harder because no one showed them any better, hard workers have it easier cause they have worked hard their whole life. they have it harder cause they always expect something, At the end of the day no matter poor or rich spoon fed or self fed your success is because of you yes you could have had help or done it on your own if you fail might be for many reasons. And that will show at the end who pissed it away or gave it up


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I sometimes get the impression on here, that some of you guys with big shops, & lots of employees, think less of us one man shops (OMS) & opinions.

I personally have worked for the small family business, which was my fathers. When I started there in 1979, he had 3 trucks, & 5 employees. & worked out of our house.
My 10 yr older brother, took over the co, when my dads health was failing. He built it into a 30, to 40 man union shop, & moved into a nice new bldg, in 1986. It made him wealthy. But it also put him in a different class, & IMO, the jobs & the workmanship, & the moral at the co., were now, low priority. I became a number to him too.

I didn't like the big work, big jobs, union shop, one bit. I am not jealous of him 1 bit either. If I could change shoes right now, I would unequivically say hail no. I'll take my "boot strap" any day. Cuz I haven't been no slouch being on my own. And I don't think his big business, is doing very well today either.

So all that being said, I have seen, & been on many sides of the fence, as has other OMS guys here. So all I can say is I can relate to the big boys, better than you may believe.

As for a hand me down, or startup business being easier? Like alot have said, every situation is different. I think my brother had a harder time taking over my fathers business, but he wanted to go big. So that was his choice. He basically abandoned all the service business my dad built up. It was bigger bucks in the short term, but IMO, & I think he is finding out now, it was a big mistake, in long run.

I had it a little tough, when I started my business in 1995, cuz my brothers business, (formerly my dads), had my last name in it. So I didn't want anything to do with that business, or get accused of stealing customers. So I started from scratch, with just my 1st name. Had 2 employees for 5yrs, now I'm a OMS, cuz I like it that way, & plan to slowly, slow down & retire, & take all my skills with me, cuz the younger ones don't wanna know them anyway.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> There's a huge difference between being handed keys to the office of a company pulling 6 figures a year to
> creating a name for yourself, list of clientell, repeat customer base.
> That takes years, with the opposite of that design is "just another day with new faces"* and that is something a lot of you are failing to identify and accept.*


No, Dunbar, I just don't think everybody is looking to join a complaintfest about having to bootstrap it in the plumbing biz.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> There's a huge difference between being handed keys to the office of a company pulling 6 figures a year
> 
> 
> to
> ...


I agree there's a huge difference, but I think you under estimate the challanges that an inherited business owner has. You and I had a learning curve where the monetary risk was low and it didn't involve others livelyhood. Learn as you go. That is a valuble asset. Imagine trying to run without first learning to crawl or walk. That is a unique challange I can not relate too. As hard as crawling was I am thankful I learned too.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> I sometimes get the impression on here, that some of you guys with big shops, & lots of employees, think less of us one man shops (OMS) & opinions...


Where did you read that?


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Where did you read that?


OldSchool 
SharkBite Certified

 

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 4,255 

 My Photos 









Richard 

I think some guys are getting confused as to selling...

Some of these guys are one man shops and think all they have to do is answer the phone and they are some kind of marketing genuis......

Its not hard to fill the day for one man.... especially if you are the cook, dishwash washer, bus boy and waiter







     
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *OldSchool*  
_...Some of these guys are one man shops and think all they have to do is answer the phone and they are some kind of marketing genuis......_

There is a whole set of encyclopedias that could be written on that statement. It rates up there with the hardworking men/woman that do not know the difference between operating a business as opposed to owning a job.

But that would be a whole 'nother thread.
__________________
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mbing[/URL] (03-10-2012)


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Not trying to start anything with Mr Biz Or Old School, cuz I know both of you guys are top notch plumbers, & businessmen, & very informative. This is JMO, & no big deal either way.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> Not trying to start anything with Mr Biz Or Old School, cuz I know both of you guys are top notch plumbers, & businessmen, & very informative. This is JMO, & no big deal either way.


I think you missed the point 

Those comments were to help OMS not hurt them

If anything Biz, Richard and I try to help you guys along your way.... And try to help You to understand the cost to operate either OMS or MMS

Lots of plumbing zone members that are operating both a OMS and MMS seem to have found information we share to be helpful to their business

I guess I will stop sharing and let you take your hard lumps along the way

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> I think you missed the point
> 
> Those comments were to help OMS not hurt them
> 
> ...


I'm a OMS and don't recall you talking down to me or saying something offense. Yes, the point was missed. The comment about answering the phone was spot on. It is much, much easier to answer a phone and fill a day as a OMS then to choose the right, and most effective marketing to fill the day for many guys.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I think you missed the point
> 
> Those comments were to help OMS not hurt them
> 
> ...


Never said you were not informative, in fact, I said the exact opposite, so maybe we're all guilty of reading things wrong. 
But please don't make a big deal of my comment. If we don't all say atleast some of our real feelings, not all, then this forum would not be so successful. 

You guys are remarkable, & don't mean anything bad. Just was trying to say you guys who have the bigger businesses, have all had to be on our side of the fence at one time,or another. Well some of us OMS have also been on your side of the fence, & can see your point of view, many times too.

Richard understood more of what I was feeling, with a few of my sentences, than some of my life long friends.

Ok I will say no more, cuz I'm off topic, sorry.


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## Pipefitter56 (Apr 6, 2012)

I work for a plumbing company that is run by the children of the man who started it..his children made it into a great business and have a great reputation..but it's the 3rd generation who will run it into the ground..there is 2 of the grandsons..one of them is "ok" but the other one isn't worth a damn..he is spoiled and doesn't know anything about plumbing..I had to show him how to put a toilet seat on one time..I think that this company might have another 5-7 year before it caves in


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> Not trying to start anything with Mr Biz Or Old School, cuz I know both of you guys are top notch plumbers, & businessmen, & very informative. This is JMO, & no big deal either way.


Never realized that you felt we were trying lower you or any OMS....

All the time we were trying to raise you up....

Nothing wrong operating by yourself.... the only lesson to be learned is charge accordinly......

Charge more..... work less ......is the message we are transmitting....

This applies to all shops... OMS (one man shops ) and MMS (multi man shops)


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> DUNBAR PLUMBING said:
> 
> 
> > There's a huge difference between being handed keys to the office of a company pulling 6 figures a year
> ...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> I sometimes get the impression on here, that some of you guys with big shops, & lots of employees, think less of us one man shops (OMS) & opinions....


You may have misunderstood my many comments about OMS. 

Pointing out the painfully predictable business mistakes made by the majority of OMS is not so much thinking less of them as it is expecting more of them. For my part it is always with a view to helping. 

I have the utmost respect for OMS but what kind of person sees the train wreck coming and doesn't speak up? Not me. It is impossible for someone to get off of the wrong track without coming to grips with the fact they are on the wrong track. 

There are exceptions to everything. A OMS operater with your background might well be one of those exceptions.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I will not say one is more difficult than the other. I did a start up with very little thought put into it and I know how rough that was to build into something that was worth some money. I also know some hand me downs where the sons took the ball and ran with it creating a more valuable company than prior to them getting the business. I would venture to guess it is tougher to take a hand me down company add growth and improve than to startup bare bones. There is more risk with a hand me down.

Granted you have a customer base however I do not know 1 owner that does not have a wish to make it better than what he or she has inherited. I have seen both hand me downs and startups crash and burn. This informs me that both are difficult and you still must make the same decisions running the business. The major difference is you already have the responsibility of other families with the hand me down.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

one thing that I have seen destroy a company 
was when the key man who ran the place got sick 
and passed away... their was no family member 
old enough or experienced enough to get up to speed
and run the place properly....so it crashed and burned in two short years..... 

they were rakeing in money left and right but did not think ahead and have* key man insurance* in place in case the bottom might fall out .....if they would have had a 500k insurance policy in place , perhaps they 
could have weathered the storm , or closed the doors and walked away happy......

has anyone thought of insureing yourself in case disaster befalls you and eventually the busines s you built up??? 

and yes I do have this in place


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## CentralPlumbing (Jan 22, 2009)

I had a chance to take over the family business but after an international relocation I had no choice but to start my own.
I would have had NO ISSUE with taking over an established business that my father worked many years to build. HE WANTED me to take it over, it was his legacy and he wanted to pass that on to his son. I would be much richer and much happier now if I had not had to start from scratch.
What I did take from him though is his experience, his good common sense, his judgement, his passion and his commitment.


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## HOT H2O (Sep 23, 2011)

while I stated my own biz 1200 miles away from my dads company, growing up in the family business gave me the knowledge and experience of what to expect. 

many ground up guys are really good mechanics who are tired of making money for the man, but with limited business knowledge they truly don't know what to expect. I am grateful to be able to draw off of my old man's experience. I call him with questions all the time. but at the same time, I am proud to say that I am doing this on my own.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Pipefitter56 said:


> *I work for a plumbing* *company* that is run by the children of the man who started it..his children made it into a great business and have a great reputation..but it's the 3rd generation who will run it into the ground..there is 2 of the grandsons..one of them is "ok" but the other one isn't worth a damn..he is spoiled and doesn't know anything about plumbing..I had to show him how to put a toilet seat on one time..I think that this company might have another 5-7 year before it caves in


 






So does that make you a plumber? Office worker? Either way, new bees are kindly requested to post an intro in the introduction section. Tell us years in the trade, licenses held, etc. We look forward to your input.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

[quote


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

she actually meant it towards me but my response couldnt be better


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*thank you*



revenge said:


> she actually meant it towards me but my response couldnt be better


oops....sorry , my mistake


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Plumbers are an emotional bunch.


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## Pipefitter56 (Apr 6, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> So does that make you a plumber? Office worker? Either way, new bees are kindly requested to post an intro in the introduction section. Tell us years in the trade, licenses held, etc. We look forward to your input.


Sorry tommy im the new guy lol..I do plumbing/pipefitting on a commercial and have been for 5 years now..I have my welding degree and am a licensed plumber..thanks for showing me the ropes


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm not a business owner I will state right off the bat , but I'm seeing one of these situations play right out before my eyes right now . I run our north Texas office , I'm the youngest of all the office personnel between service managers ,vice president, purchasing agent , and the owner which are all plumbers . They are all hitting their very late 50's some are early 60's . The owner has two sons that are very intelligent when it comes to plumbing knowledge , but they couldn't manage a 1 man shop much less 100 man shop . I know the owner is wanting to retire but I just don't see it happening any time soon with out selling the company. It's kinda sad to watch because this a great company and I know the only way he is going to retire is by selling the company, the vp could take it over and run the company but he doesn't want it he will probally retire before the owner . He has given both sons multiple chances to prove themselves by opening office's in other states and cities , both of them have crashed and burned. It's just tuff to see a business owner that has built a company from 1 van to a fleet of 40 trucks and vans and 75 employees up to 150 at times have no choice but to sell. I just don't see this company staying in business without one of the 2 key guys running it . Also if he sales the company which I see happening it wouldn't ever be the same , I truly wish one of the sons would pull their head out of their ass and get their sh#t together.As for the question at hand on which is harder it would depend on so many factors that you would have judge each situation on a individual basis.Because if either son was able to take the business over they would have some HUGE shoes to fill and would always be criticized for every bad decision they made. I don't envy someone who had to walk in those kinds of shoes.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> I have noticed not one person, in this thread, who was given a business, has said they are proud to have been given the opportunity. There must be some shame, guilt, or something. Proud people speak up quickly when challenged.
> 
> I


I am VERY proud to have had the opportunity to run my Dad's business. I'm a 3rd gen. plumber, Dad did not inherit his Dad's biz, cuz grandpa was a classic Irish a-hole, he started and ran one of the larger mech. contracting companies in S. Central Fla., first big job was for Ringling Bro. Circus in Sarasota, the winter HQ. Dad started his own biz after he got out of the Navy after WWII. He dragged my brother and I along, working summers and weekends when we turned 10. I did not get the "Silver Spoon", more like the Silver Plunger. We worked in ditches, cleaning sewers, cleaning furnaces, and when doing new work and not having much for us to do, put us with the electricians, plasterers, bricklayers, any other trade working on the job who needed grunt work done. The knowledge we gained was priceless. Dad only had an 8th grade education, but was very savvy with the business end of it, and taught us everything. The bad part came when Dad remarried after Mom died, and his "new" wife intended to take over. I went my own way, started my biz up, ran it for 11 yrs., then got a real job. Unless the biz is a multi-million dollar outfit, I don't think anyone can just inherit one, sit back, play golf and count the money. You have to stay on top of things, and have your "A" game on every single day. If anyone feels the way the OP does, fine. I know what I went thru, and I'm quite sure Dad would be proud of me today.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

And how much work did all the plumbers on here trying to be right got done this weekend? 


Not much.


Some of you have way too much time on your hands. Shame on you if you have a family. You make a mockery out of single folk like myself that do have an excuse to live on the forum. Obviously.


Lunch sucked! Back to work!



29 of you are self-starters. Congratulations on that success of doing it for yourself and not be given the car while it's running.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Phat Cat said:


> > Yep, you don't have the luxury of going into the field and ignoring all the other aspects of the business. If you are pulling 6 figures, you are more than likely responsible for other people's livelihood and their families. You are probably a target for opportunists to sue. Let's not forget, you inherited the companies liabilities, reputation (good or bad), systems & procedures, logos, philosophy, etc. It's not quite your "own."
> >
> >
> >
> ...


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

playme1979 said:


> I'm not a business owner I will state right off the bat , but I'm seeing one of these situations play right out before my eyes right now . I run our north Texas office , I'm the youngest of all the office personnel between service managers ,vice president, purchasing agent , and the owner which are all plumbers . They are all hitting their very late 50's some are early 60's . The owner has two sons that are very intelligent when it comes to plumbing knowledge , but they couldn't manage a 1 man shop much less 100 man shop . I know the owner is wanting to retire but I just don't see it happening any time soon with out selling the company. It's kinda sad to watch because this a great company and I know the only way he is going to retire is by selling the company, the vp could take it over and run the company but he doesn't want it he will probally retire before the owner . He has given both sons multiple chances to prove themselves by opening office's in other states and cities , both of them have crashed and burned. It's just tuff to see a business owner that has built a company from 1 van to a fleet of 40 trucks and vans and 75 employees up to 150 at times have no choice but to sell. I just don't see this company staying in business without one of the 2 key guys running it . Also if he sales the company which I see happening it wouldn't ever be the same , I truly wish one of the sons would pull their head out of their ass and get their sh#t together.As for the question at hand on which is harder it would depend on so many factors that you would have judge each situation on a individual basis.Because if either son was able to take the business over they would have some HUGE shoes to fill and would always be criticized for every bad decision they made. I don't envy someone who had to walk in those kinds of shoes.



Why is it that they are both so incapable of running the business? If they don't possess the proper knowledge then why not send them to business school and mentor one or both of them? It would seem that if he wanted to pass it on he would have been grooming one or both. 

I'm sure he has done all items mentioned above, but they are just incapable. Selling it to a internal employee sounds like a much better idea, rather than selling it to a completely different entity.


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## SimplePlumber (Feb 1, 2012)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Years ago I was in a CEU class for my hours and I sparked ire in 2 plumbers when I made a statement that self created plumbers and hand me down family run plumbing companies are far different in many ways.
> 
> 
> One of those ways is the effort, the creation of taking nothing and building it into something.
> ...


What I am reading into this blanket statement is... the sons or daughters of family owned businesses have no idea of what it is to work hard or the fight required in the early years of business just because they inherited them.

One's character is their character and whether a business was passed down or they started it from scratch will not impact it.

It doesn't make them less of a business person to embrace the favorable cards dealt to them opposed to grinding it out from nothing. They just started a little further down the same road of business. Another thing is that many of those children were likely part of the business from the beginning as apprentices.

I grew up in a family plumbing business from the age of 5 until around 28...but quit it since I needed to create one on my own for reasons of personal pride.

If you have never worked in a family business...you have no idea what hard is


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

SimplePlumber said:


> What I am reading into this blanket statement is... the sons or daughters of family owned businesses have no idea of what it is to work hard or the fight required in the early years of business just because they inherited them.
> 
> One's character is their character and whether a business was passed down or they started it from scratch will not impact it.
> 
> ...


I agree the OP has no idea what he is talking about

I think this thread should be renamed

Pick one
1. I am a jealous fool
2. I act like I know what I am talking about
3. Just another one of my idiotic polls
4. I think I am the greatest
5. I wish I was born in a different family
6. My life sucks

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Phat Cat said:
> 
> 
> > You like to be right, which is about 50% of time. My statements are solid as a rock on this topic, see below...
> ...


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I almost hate to admit this, but I think I am finally starting to understand what the OP meant. :blink: But, I won't necessarily say I agree with the premise. 

We all have had to work hard to get where we are. This is the plumbing trade folks, not for the feint of heart. Hard work is what we do, and what we enjoy, for any number of reasons. 

While you ran with your dad to do a plumbing job, I was tearing a roof off a two-story to help my grandfather in his roofing business. While you helped snake a drain I was removing and installing radiators for my other grandfather. Did I get paid working for either, hell no!!!! 

What's the point? The point is we all put in our time, directly in the trade or not. Nobody was handed a damn thing. We all have worked for what we have, and continue to work. 

Some have had advantages, that is life.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Master Mark - Glad you saw the error of your ways. :yes: I was loaded up for bear. I agreed with you and then BAM, smack.  Even put Revenges name to be clear on that post.

Revenge - You're missing my point. I don't believe we have the right to judge others based only upon our criterion for what is hard. The best we can do is to imagine what we could have done given the same opportunity as another. IMO, the OP is using this thread to tear down anyone who didn't start their business from scratch. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon.

FWIW - I think every hard-worker with character in the industry deserves credit, no matter how they got started. If someone had it easier, so what! Who cares? To stay at the top of your game, you must continually work hard at it and grow. I don't care what anyone says, *staying on top of your game is THE HARD PART*.

Not to mention Dunbar, bigger companies are bigger targets.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

SimplePlumber said:


> but quit it since I needed to create one on my own for *reasons of personal pride*.


 

And the ability to do so.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Phat Cat;262537I believe his statement was a bit premature said:


> We all know there are many many more members who were give a company to run. I am not saying that is a bad thing. Just making an observation that "bosses kids" are usually not proud of being that. Many people think that they get every thing handed to them, most have to work twice as hard as everyone else just to convince themselves that they are not getting special treatment. Then others milk their parents for all they are worth.
> 
> I do think that if someone is given a company that pretty much runs itself, with an experienced staff, and a nice bank account. There is no way they have it harder than someone starting from the ground up.


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

I guess I'm a golden spoon fed baby, only boy out of 3 kids, my father started hillside in '74 from nothing, and was pretty much a oms, he now owns his home an apartment building and a commercial building outright, he can't bend over to tie his shoes and now has Velcro shoes at the age of 75... Yay can't wait
I worked with my dad on and off for a few of my teenage years, wanted nothing to do with plumbing, still don't hahaha, when I was 18 went to junior college and hated it, pops asked me to help throw some water heaters one weekend, saw how much he made and got me hooked from then on, lived with my parents til I was 22, lemme tell you how much fun it was getting yelled at for 4 years straight to wake up at 630 every morning after partying late every night, worked with him side by side in the service side of plumbing for a total of 10 years, he decided to finally retire 4 yrs ago, I got my own hillside bank account with zero in it, my supply house bill cleared and a plain white 1986 retired pacific bell ford e350 with 150k miles on it stuffed to the brim with junk, trash, scrap, tools and used parts he would not throw away because "we might need them one day", there was seriously levels of the different years jobs in the van, our sewer machine had 100' of inner core and no powerfeed, if we couldn't get it cleared we would leave with our tail between our legs, I knew nothing about running my "turnkey business" hahaha 
I now own two paid off 2007 chevy express's with new vinyl on them and shelving inside, I have multiplied my client list 10 fold, from what he had, and am taking op's customers daily, he had all old Skool equip which I have since retired, bought all new sewer machines WITH power feeds, camera systems, and am addicted to buying tools weekly to make my life easier, I am very appreciative of what he built up and gave me but it hasn't been the most ideal turnkey biz like some think it sounds. Each scenario is different of course but that's just a little bit of how I got my "turnkey biz" I could go on for pages about it but I won't, he is very proud of me and my accomplishments and that's what matters most to me.....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

HillsidePlumbco said:


> ....he is very proud of me and my accomplishments and that's what matters most to me.....


:thumbup:


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## SimplePlumber (Feb 1, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> I have noticed not one person, in this thread, who was given a business, has said they are proud to have been given the opportunity. There must be some shame, guilt, or something. Proud people speak up quickly when challenged.
> 0
> I


Ever since I was born I looked forward to taking over the family business and was very proud of the fact that I would be carrying the torch (<< plumbing pun) handed to me.

I wouldn't call it "given" in my case...it was well earned. I put in many years of helping to build and refine it looong before I was to take it over. 

As I got older and more business savvy, I came to the realization that my father was a great plumber, but a not-so-good business person. After years of trying to get him to change certain repeating mistakes, I finally determined that we had two different views of the direction of the company and started my own.

I think I would have actually been prouder to have carried the torch of a family business more than to be the island of a new start-up.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Anyone that starts a business with nothing has my respect.

Anyone that starts a business with nothing AND IS SUCCESSFUL really has my respect.

You all should be proud of yourselves.

But pride don't pay the bills. Pride doesn't put food on the table. For the most part, customers don't care where you came from or how you got there. 

Success doesn't come from how you got in business. Success comes from what you do with it.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

SimplePlumber said:


> Ever since I was born I looked forward to taking over the family business and was very proud of the fact that I would be carrying the torch (<< plumbing pun) handed to me.
> 
> I wouldn't call it "given" in my case...it was well earned. I put in many years of helping to build and refine it looong before I was to take it over.
> 
> ...


So you will hand over your business to any employee who works hard and is dedicated, or only family. What if you have a son who is lazy, I bet he still get handed the business before a hard working employee. I realize everyone puts family first, I just want someone to say "My dad gave me his business because he loves me and there is nothing wrong with that". Not the old I earned it, dozens of employees have probably "earned it" but owning the business was reserved for the former owners son.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> So you will hand over your business to any employee who works hard and is dedicated, or only family. What if you have a son who is lazy, I bet he still get handed the business before a hard working employee. I realize everyone puts family first, I just want someone to say "My dad gave me his business because he loves me and there is nothing wrong with that". Not the old I earned it, dozens of employees have probably "earned it" but owning the business was reserved for the former owners son.


I know of a large mechanical firm that did turn the business over to a key man. So, it does happen. Sadly, that key man will probably be turning it over to his son who did not earn the right to take it over. The key employees both left said employer because they saw the writing on the wall. The son won't end up reaping anything because more than luck will be needed to survive.

As for turning over to blood - not happening in our case. I would turn it over in a heartbeat to a loyal employee before I would even consider turning it over to a spoiled kid who didn't earn the business.

Just had that discussion with son when he was offered a chance to work today. "Today you have an opportunity to earn some money. I don't know what the future will bring. BUT, you are making decisions today that will affect your future. Keep going the way you are going and you will find your a$$ (yes I said a$$) out at 18 figuring it all out on your own dime. You can learn our way, or you can learn the hard way. The choice is yours. I'm leaving for the office in 10 minutes. You decide."

He took his shower and got in the car. BTW, he is also being paid less than minimum wage - just another benefit offered to business owner's sons. 

One of our children made the mistake of suggesting that if we were rich, they were rich. :no: Rich parents DO NOT equal rich kids. We love our children too much for that. :yes:


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

ms cat i did get your point but i think my point was missed my point was that to start off with a company as for the scenarios you said as for 100000 given and from bottom up it would be easier to start of from the way of given 100000 and bottom up. now the out come of the buisness is totaly up to the person individualy as for respect i respect every one as long as you doin something to better off your life no matter how you got the opportuninty cause at the end thats what it is. its an opportunity given or self made at the end of day the only thing that matters is who took the ball and ran with it


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank you Revenge - I didn't miss your point. All things being equal, yes the additional money is a huge leg up. I was attempting to point our that a fool with $100,000.00 is still far worse off than the intelligent man with nothing.

Everyone has different gifts / talents etc. I'm detailed oriented (you probably didn't know ), so the OP using a broad brush ticked me off even though I have never been handed a thing. Graduated from the school of hard knocks and have what the good Lord saw fit to give me. Those who are second, third or more generation business owners are being put in a position of defense. I can argue the point without being defensive since it does not apply to me. 

The thread creation was divisive and I don't see the point in antagonizing. 

One could argue that the OP had it easy because he was born the right color, the right sex, no kids/wife to speak of, and a creative mind to boot. Just sayin' . . . nothing is ever equal. :no:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> Thank you Revenge - I didn't miss your point. All things being equal, yes the additional money is a huge leg up. I was attempting to point our that a fool with $100,000.00 is still far worse off than the intelligent man with nothing.
> 
> Everyone has different gifts / talents etc. I'm detailed oriented (you probably didn't know ), so the OP using a broad brush ticked me off even though I have never been handed a thing. Graduated from the school of hard knocks and have what the good Lord saw fit to give me. Those who are second, third or more generation business owners are being put in a position of defense. I can argue the point without being defensive since it does not apply to me.
> 
> ...


 
I agree, I just would like to hear someone who was "given" a business to stand up for themselves. 

Just say "My father loved me enough to give me his business when he retired, I have worked my butt off to get where I am in life. I am proud of the fact that the business my father or grandfather handed down to me is still going strong".

I am so sick of hearing I "deserve" it. Lots of people may deserve it, but you got it because your father or whoever wanted you to have it. There is no shame in your parents giving you a gift, mine do every christmas and birthday. My point is dont be ashamed of your blessings.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Phat Cat said:


> As for turning over to blood - not happening in our case. I would turn it over in a heartbeat to a loyal employee before I would even consider turning it over to a spoiled kid who didn't earn the business.
> 
> Just had that discussion with son when he was offered a chance to work today. "Today you have an opportunity to earn some money. I don't know what the future will bring. BUT, you are making decisions today that will affect your future. Keep going the way you are going and you will find your a$$ (yes I said a$$) out at 18 figuring it all out on your own dime. You can learn our way, or you can learn the hard way. The choice is yours. I'm leaving for the office in 10 minutes. You decide."
> 
> ...




Had a similar conversation with my 13 year old son. Told him I would love for nothing more than for him to grow up and eventually take over the business. This of course being dependent on his earning it. 

It would entail him working for me while he goes through school, then he can go to college away or stay at home. Then after college he can work for me full time, and if he shows that he will do as I would expect then, and only then would we begin the process of. I figure it would put him near 30 at the earliest for actually running the business. 

I also told him that he can do whatever he wants in life and does not have to be a plumber. But, if he tells me that he is not going to college he is out 30 days from his graduation from high school. This may sound harsh, but I believe in a college education. If he wants to go the other route and be an adult and not go, then its better to start on his adult life sooner than later. 

By the way, if he does not go my route or close to it, the business will go to a employee, be sold, or closed.


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## smudge (Jan 19, 2010)

I did not take part in Dunbars poll because I was not just handed the family business. I worked very hard for many years and continue to do so. Mr. green with envy does not know how tough it could be to take over the reigns of an established business. The grass is always greener from the other side Mr. Dunbar. Imho you showed a very poor side of your persona.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Amen ND - Same thing with our children. College full-time means you can live at home and contribute in non-monetary ways. Grades must be B or better. Living at home and working dead-end job not an option - no amount of 'rent' is worth having an adult under your roof living like a kid. Not gonna happen.

Like you, plumbing is NOT pushed. It's an option only if any of them wanted to pursue it. They need to follow their own dreams and they are all entitled to what they are capable of earning for themselves.

No free rides - it builds character. 

Smudge - :thumbup: You don't owe anyone an explanation. Good for you. :yes: Then again, Dunbar states I am only right 50% of the time. LOL


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## Flyin Brian (Aug 22, 2009)

I can only speak from my experience ,i got into the plbg. trade from my father
who i still work for,i have had alot of responsibilities these last few years on count of the fact that my father is getting to be in retirement mode.i never was fed with a silver spoon nor did i have anything handed to me. the things i do have were from all the hard work i have put in over the years working for my father, i have learned a hell of alot and am still learning things everyday.

I am happy for what the plumbing trade has done for me,you get to meet some good people along the way and when i get passed the torch im gonna do my very best to keep the family buss. that my father started almost 40 years ago alive and well.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

This whole thread seems so odd to me. It's like an argument over which taste better, apples or oranges. They are just different, not better or worse.

My business came from nothing to a little better than nothing and nothing was inherited. But I did not do it alone. Nobody that proclaims to be a self-made success did it alone. EVERYBODY gets help in one form or another.

This is the underlying theme in my life:

The truly self-made-man is just a child that won't admit who helped him.


The successful OMS had help and mentors. The inherited business operator had help and mentors. Whatever happened to being grateful for what you have rather than being resentful of someone else's success?

Should I resent that OMS today get a leg up by having the internet and forums to get help from? After all, that is much easier than what I had.


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## SimplePlumber (Feb 1, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> So you will hand over your business to any employee who works hard and is dedicated, or only family. What if you have a son who is lazy, I bet he still get handed the business before a hard working employee. I realize everyone puts family first, I just want someone to say "My dad gave me his business because he loves me and there is nothing wrong with that". Not the old I earned it, dozens of employees have probably "earned it" but owning the business was reserved for the former owners son.


The initial thread was not about laziness or dedication, but someone's blanket perception of the difference between inheriting a business or starting one from scratch. As in every blanket statement, there are always exceptions to what is said.

No, I would not hand over my business to an employee if I had a child who I thought could or would want to take it over. "Blood is thicker than water" comes to mind. That said, I wouldn't hand my business over to *anyone* who I thought was lazy or wouldn't show at least the same level of pride in it that I do, child or not.

Since you brought up the subject...my father was an extremely selfish, abusive, alcoholic who did nothing for anyone (including wife and kids) that didn't directly help him in some way. So no, I cannot say "My dad gave me his business because he loves me". Since love is truly shown by deeds and not by words.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I was given my business from my dad. Well I bought it but it was a fire sale. I've gotten way more help then I deserve. Not just with the business but personally as well. 

I started running this co at 23 so if I didn't have help I would have failed. I could care less if that upsets you. I'm sure we could all find something in our lives that was unfair. We could choose to complain, or pick ourselves up by our bootstraps and move on. I would hope you would have learned that by your age. 
One of the biggest lessons my dad taught me was life isn't fair, and no one owes you anything. If you're looking back on how hard you have it, and whining, you need to grow up. The only person you have to blame for your life stares you in the face in the mirror. 

If you're looking for an attaboy look elsewhere. No one cares about how hard you had it around here. It's all about perspective. I had it easy, but so did you. You were physically and mentally able to do a high earning trade.

My dad never got anything handed to him, and he wanted me to get farther than he did with the same hard work, not have it easy. When it comes time I will do everything I can for my son to get farther than me.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*Lots of thread thankin' goin' on in haere!*

Lots of people explaining their stance, I'm no Dr. Phil but I sure can get people to talk. It's a blessed talent whether you're going to admit it or not.



Why on earth does anyone believe that I haven't worked for a family run company before. I did, it was horrible.

Always mad, everyone wants to run it their way. You might want to use that as an excuse, go ahead. It means nothing to me.


Here's what you miss out when you get handed the business:


You don't have to go job hunting

You're accepted through the family tradition

You can get by or "slide" when most get fired, just because you're family

You get the easier work, cuz yer family

And some get cradled the entire way, all the way till the torch is handed to them. Of course, you'll play in crap, you'll have long hard days, you'll feel like you're doing more than any plumber on the planet.

That's fine...


But channel your way through the rank and file of numerous companies, get s***t on along the way, get put in situations you don't like, lose a great job because of the ***holes you have to work with every day, learn how many politics exist when it's you and no one else that drives the desire to make a career out of plumbing.... instead of just having dad or the sympathetic family connection that *guaranteed you placement in your profession*.


See, this isn't me above. I had to drive it harder and faster, quicker and better. Had to. You're being graded daily by your boss and your other employees. Being union taught me you're almost graded by the hour pratically. 

You can't have a bad day in plumbing... unless of course if you're family. :laughing:

I saw many brownnosers in the union and I can't say I'm one of those. I understood the many reasons for it...because sitting the bench don't pay the bills. The union taught me you couldn't be an individual to speak of my own mind... I never had a chance because I let it rip no matter the consequence. 

I've seen family get the easiest of work, if they get in a pinch there's always someone to fall back to take the hit on collateral damage, whether it's a financial one or a liability one.

Last count on here is showing 34 self starters, the overwhelming majority showing on this topic of interest.

I started this thread just to see how many were out there that started like me, did for myself, started from zero, nothing, notta. The rest that defended their cozy transition did exactly what I expected... tried to make a dumb statement that I somehow am jealous of the opportunity. Never mind that I'm very content where I'm at, never mind that I'm involved in other endeavors by the same damn design, self starting.

Some of you have been great entertainment. We're all equal on the plumbing front. Some of us just skipped about 9 steps to be in the same shoes.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Oh darn it was a trick?
Aw well worse has happened. To a large degree what you said is true DB. 
And you're right, working with family naturally comes with bene's a non family member *rarely* will see. ( notice I didn't draw a hard line conclusion.)

Knowing first hand I can say Dad/son or daughter, bro/sis etc) relationships can be damaged, sometimes *never* to be the same again.

Getting the easiest tasks (physically) is a myth, at least in the world I've been around. My dad made sure nobody could say I had it easier. But that was my experience and I seen it laterally in other company's as well.
The kids are expected to just know the "stuff" no matter if they just entered the trade, all the while work harder without complaints.

I personally don't recommend it, or guard the relationship first and foremost if you do.


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

I work with two guys whose fathers had plumbing companies and they both apprenticed under them. You can just tell Dad fixed every screw up they ever did, and were patted on the back for a job half done. Either will install a couple of pipes in a day and consider themselves rock stars. Both are utterly useless.

I can't imagine either taking over their fathers respective businesses. Just because Dad was a good plumber and businessman doesn't make it so for Daddy's precious little boy that can do no wrong. On the job, as in business, if Dad wasn't around to bail them out, they'd be in trouble in a hurry.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*good analogy*



OldSchool said:


> I agree the OP has no idea what he is talking about
> 
> I think this thread should be renamed
> 
> ...


7. if you did not walk in my shoes to get where you are now......
then you are nothing but worthless dog crap.....

8. I am god, and you must show worship to me..
because no one handed me a thing..:notworthy:





I think that sums this thread all up.... 
if anyone can think of any others to add to this list
go for it.......


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

plumber666 said:


> I work with two guys whose fathers had plumbing companies and they both apprenticed under them. You can just tell Dad fixed every screw up they ever did, and were patted on the back for a job half done. Either will install a couple of pipes in a day and consider themselves rock stars. Both are utterly useless.
> 
> I can't imagine either taking over their fathers respective businesses. Just because Dad was a good plumber and businessman doesn't make it so for Daddy's precious little boy that can do no wrong. On the job, as in business, if Dad wasn't around to bail them out, they'd be in trouble in a hurry.


I worked for my family business for 17 yrs. Been on my own for almost 17yrs. I have worked with, & had experiences with many, many, other family owned businesses. Now this may be a broad observation, but when it come to family members working for the family business, (I'm talking all kinds of businesses here, not just plumbing businesses), there was only 2 types of family, or relatives, in the work place.

1- The family member that knew it all, & did way more than their fair share.
2- The useless family members that basically collected a paycheck, & knew, & did very little.

Rarely did I see anything in between, (average). Just my personal observation, from what I experienced. I have a few suppliers, with this exact scenario.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

There is an option that is not on the poll and that is the purchase of an exisitng company and I am proud to have had the oppurtunity to buy into the company when the owner retired. 

Sure you may start off with an existing database of clients, but you need to plan on loosing at least 25% or more just because of the change in ownership.

You are probably also going to assume the exisiting debt, liabilities and warranties along with what you are paying the former owner while operating with at least 1.5 less employees.

Just because you start off in business with an existing company does not mean it is all a bed of roses. 

Starting from scratch could actually be an advantage over purchasing an exisitng company. IMO


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I can't speak for anyone else but, I didn't complete my apprenticeship with my dad's company. He wanted me to learn the trade in the field, like he did. I didn't join him until I had my journeymans. Also he was only a one man shop before I joined up with him. He's a good 30 years old than I am, who do you think did all the grunt work? I didn't mind doing it either, as I got the opportunity to learn before I took the company over. I did get tons of help from him, and am grateful but it was far from a bed of roses. 

Just because people inherit a company doesn't make them lazy. Oh, and you didn't do it all on your own either. No one does. Everyone has had someone help in some form along the way. It may not have been as much help but you were still helped on your way. Once again, it's time to get off your high horse.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> 7. if you did not walk in my shoes to get where you are now......
> then you are nothing but worthless dog crap.....
> 
> 8. I am god, and you must show worship to me..
> ...


 
9. Who has a bigger Ego, Donald Trump, or me?


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Most tell how tough it was, & talk about others, who may of had advantages. Well I will tell you 3 big advantages I had, to solidify my decision to break away from family business, & start from scratch on my own.
1- No debt.
2- Wife had job & could support us on her own.
3- Wife has medical coverage.

Can't say for sure if I would of tried it, if not for these reasons. Especially at the time I did, cuz me & big brother boss, had a spat, 2 months before my daughter was born, & thats when I went on my own. That was a big year for me.:yes:


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