# Whirlpool waterheaters. are you seeing the same thing happenning???



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

got a boat load of whirlpool calls today...

the first was from a poor guy in Houston, with a 1 year old Whirlpool heater installeled up in his attic.. behind the furnace.... wanted to know how to reapir the unit.. he has got troubles


the second guy was from San Deigo, the previous owner had majic markerd the heater with dates every time the reapir man fixed that dog, *it had been repaired 5 times* in the last 6 years... i told him to jsut throw it out , and he agreed...

then it really began...

I get 4 more calls scattered through the day...
all from Indianapolis, wanting me to repair their Cess-pools, all of them about 2 years old...

I told them to call Raji in India and have the parts sent to them.... then call me back...









.This would almost be funny , if it were not for the people that have beed screwed so deeply by whirlpool...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

They are the most notorious leakers around here. That and rheems and their relabels.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*they never last long enough to leak*



Protech said:


> They are the most notorious leakers around here. That and rheems and their relabels.


they only last about a year before the parts fail and break down totally, I have changed out dozens of them but I 

I dont think I have ever changed out a leaker....


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

The small flame arrestor is a pain. quick to clog. now state and aosmith is using the same design.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Bradford White exclusively Baby


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

BW makes a crappy electric. Good gas units though.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Bradford White exclusively Baby



What he said.:thumbsup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You guys do realize that BW uses the infamous Apcom thermostats in their electrics right?


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> BW makes a crappy electric. Good gas units though.



I have to disagree with you, not an argument in the making, but just a one time disagreement.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

My only problem with Bradford white is when a dumbass takes the dip tubes out of the elects, and it fills with sediment.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> You guys do realize that BW uses the infamous Apcom thermostats in their electrics right?



No one says you have to use OEM parts after the warranty ends.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Apcom is known for their defective thermostats. BW has Apcoms in them. Therefore, I will not install BW electrics. I do make lots of money rebuilding them with thermodisks though.



Ron The Plumber said:


> No one says you have to use OEM parts after the warranty ends.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> Apcom is known for their defective thermostats. BW has Apcoms in them. Therefore, I will not install BW electrics. I do make lots of money rebuilding them with thermodisks though.


What electrics do you install then?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

american


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Homie Depot Brand eh?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

homie sells american?


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't know if they do or don't, our supply houses don't carry them so figured someone does.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

My supply house does


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Funny how the East and West sides are so different. :laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Who makes whirlpool?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

dunno


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## Turd Burglar (Sep 26, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Who makes whirlpool?


us/craftmaster


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> My only problem with Bradford white is when a dumbass takes the dip tubes out of the elects, and it fills with sediment.


Not to mention it would not produce much hot water...:whistling2:


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> My only problem with Bradford white is when a dumbass takes the dip tubes out of the elects, and it fills with sediment.


Why would anyone do this and I'm guessing that the plural of dip tube was simply a typo?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Turd Burglar said:


> us/craftmaster


Are you sure Us/craftmaster,whirlpool,premier are not all made by American water heaters? I thought there were 5.....State,Bradford white,rheem,a.o.smith and american water heaters and all the rest are just labeled a different brand. Sombody please clear this up for me.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Are you sure Us/craftmaster,whirlpool,premier are not all made by American water heaters? I thought there were 5.....State,Bradford white,rheem,a.o.smith and american water heaters and all the rest are just labeled a different brand. Sombody please clear this up for me.


Us/craftmaster,whirlpool premier are made by American. which are the heater as A.0.Smith and State. Rheem makes the GE heaters for HD


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Premier water heater is Barnett's private label water heater. I think they are also made by American but not sure. I guess i could call them. They damn sure call me enough.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't much BW. To me, they're like hardware store heaters. They don't line up the element openings with the elements very well and the foam around the thermostats makes them more difficult to work on. And the only time I've used one, I had to go back and replace the thermostats.

Also, in this hard water area, it seems that they go about three years tops before they need to be cleaned out. My own Rheem has gone over ten years without being touched. I feel as if I got my money's worth.

I have seldom had any repairs on Rheems that are around ten years old. I usually insist on the better ones with lots of insulation. For some reason, whatever gadget they have on the end of the dip tube works to keep the lime moving out of the heater.

I have been disappointed with their 120 v heaters because there don't seem to be any good elements for those. The 1500 watt elements last about six months. Of course, there are entire families trying to get by in teensy apartments with a 30 or 20 gallon heater. :blink:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*premier is junk*



TheMaster said:


> Premier water heater is Barnett's private label water heater. I think they are also made by American but not sure. I guess i could call them. They damn sure call me enough.


 
I just gutted and repaired a premeire the Ben Franklininstalled in a home 6 years ago...

it is a Whilrpool Flame lock, even had the reverse threaded thermocoupling...

tore it all off and installed a normal theromstat and termomcoupling......works great now....

FYI...

A>O>SMITH has decided to plunge head first into the hardware store market...

they have bought out AMERICAN, State, 
Sears, and a few other dogs out there...

Smith has taken a giant leap backwards in their FVIR gas waterheater design...

I dont understand their reasoning, so I have to chaulk it up to in-breeding...between Smith and whirlpool, 

Somehow the Whirlpool techs have 
overpowered and got the upper hand over the A.O Smith techs....... and the new smith heaters look exactly like the whirlpools......

So now Smith have shot themselves in the foot...

I dont understand why....


here is their new design, its worse than ever...

they have incorporated the outer lint screen that wraps the 
whole bottom otf theheater, and they have matched the 
Whirlpool exactly on the air intake underneath the unit...


I have not read the fine print on the Smith yet, 
 I wonder if they somehow expect people to clean 
that lint filet under teh unit every 3 months too....



  smith junk


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## Shadow Sabre (Oct 12, 2009)

*I see the same thing everytime*

Owners over chlorinate and don't understand the damage it can do to every part.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Just put a 40 gal A.O. Smith in the other day, didn't notice the bottom. If you have lint in your basement that's getting plugged fast. I don't like the design. I may have to go to a differen't plumbing supply for water heaters.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

The biggest problem with whirlpool was the thermocouple had a high limit built into it. The heater would get choked from the air intake being clogged and overheat. Installing them in an attic or a small unventilated closet, anywhere its subjested to high ambient air temps or alot of dust/lint. Then they came out with the replacement burners that had a reset switch built into it. When the heater over heats you can find the cause and "reset" it. Rheem has a system to stop a sustained vapor burn in the combustion chamber,I do not know any other brands can claim that.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Are you sure Us/craftmaster,whirlpool,premier are not all made by American water heaters? I thought there were 5.....State,Bradford white,rheem,a.o.smith and american water heaters and all the rest are just labeled a different brand. Sombody please clear this up for me.


Maybe this link will help clear things up for you...

AO Smith buys GSW

So anyway in May/2006 AO Smith bought GSW 

which owned American Water Heaters which makes American Proline, Whirlpool, Envirotemp, Mor-Flo, Powerflex, Premier Plus, US Craftmaster and possibly other labels as well.

GSW also manufactured water heaters in Canada under the names GSW and John Wood....

So yea they are all A.O. Smiths these days...


IMHO when it comes down to Gas Water Heaters and FVIR Flammable Vapor Ignition Resistance Bradford White leads the pack with Rheem running in second and American Water Heaters is in the pits trying to figure out why their car isn't running...:laughing:

It's got a clogged air cleaner....:whistling2:
http://411plumb.com/bradford-white-defender-water-heater-review
http://411plumb.com/troubleshooting-flame-guard-flame-lock-water-heaters


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Your late redwood.....I googled one of those water heater names and I ended up at your 411plumb site this morning:laughing:
I even dedicated my 2000th post to you!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Google Works!:laughing:
How far down on the page was I?:whistling2:

BTW TM congrats on your 2,000th post! You Da Man! :thumbup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

American has it's own production plants. Even if they are owned be AO smith on paper, American makes it's own heaters and then sticks Premier labels on them.

Ford owns Mazda (or did at one point), but they are totally different cars with different parts (for the most part anyway) made at different factories.

Don't get too hung up on "who owns who". I will say that since American Standard bought Rheem, it seemed like Rheem went down the toilet in quality (I used to sell nothing but Rheem)


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> I just gutted and repaired a premeire the Ben Franklininstalled in a home 6 years ago...
> 
> it is a Whilrpool Flame lock, even had the reverse threaded thermocoupling...
> 
> ...


Did you use the conversion kit?


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

I just can't bring myself to use Rheem products any more. I have a problem selling a product to a client that must be replaced if a simple part fails and needs service. What were they thinking? :furious:

6 month old heater....nope, no good anymore. Buy another and trow that one away. The part can't be changed. 

How does that make sense? I fail to understand why the entire unit must be tossed because of an FVIR shutdown. Absolute rubbish.

On the bright side I now have a great selling point to compete with the big box stores on water heater sales. I made a brochure explaining why we won't use HD or Menards heaters (Rheem heaters) and I have not lost a sale in in a very long time to some HO saying "Why is your heater so much?" "They only cost $350 at the big orange box!" :thumbsup:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*no I did not....*



Pipedoc said:


> Did you use the conversion kit?


 
NO, I did not ..... It was 4.55 pm, 
 and they had not had hot water for 3 days,
and he is the principle of the grade school that my kids go to.... so I decided to take a chance and do him a service..........

ALSO, the unit had already been "attacked" years before with the looking glass was already broken out .and the front cover ajar and loose to the fire wall........

I basically threw away that gas thermostat,
and installed a Rheem gas repalcemant valve on that unit, then simply changed the thermocoupling back to the pre-2003 design.

now it works like a champ.

I know, I know.... I have sinned, but it was for the shcool principle, and now he owes me...:thumbup:.

------------------------------------------------------

*on the subject of Rheem.....*

I used to think like you about their product,
and I did not push them for a long time...



but over the last 6 years I have only stumbled into two of those units that had the fire safety trip tube broken off......

which ususally meant a fire happened


also , you can now get the rapair vial if you so wish , 

 if its under 6 years old, I would rather just change the unit under warranty and let Rheem pay for their design that way...:thumbup:.












..


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*you will be back soon*



pauliplumber said:


> Just put a 40 gal A.O. Smith in the other day, didn't notice the bottom. If you have lint in your basement that's getting plugged fast. I don't like the design. I may have to go to a differen't plumbing supply for water heaters.


 
you will be in a mess in about 2 years on that unit, 

becasue now you got to tear off the black " panty liners" they got wrapped around the unit , then you got to some how blow off the very bottom where the lint gets stuck on...

I am doing it about twice a month on 2 year old units...


these fellows at Smith are really dumb bastards to adopt the Whirlpool design...


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

In my area a local gas co USED to keep a warehouse full of rheem water heaters , free to its customers, licensed plumbers could pick up heater charge ho for labor and things were not great but ok.Now they send ho to box store and repay them for heater when they present bill with licensed plumber on the invoice .I cull these calls now but back in the day (lol)it was not a bad deal.But I could always make more from a customer not living in their area


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> NO, I did not ..... It was 4.55 pm,
> and they had not had hot water for 3 days,
> and he is the principle of the grade school that my kids go to.... so I decided to take a chance and do him a service..........
> 
> ...


 You are a braver man than I am accepting all of that liability Mark. I know the chances of it happening are slim but if it happens you can lose everything you worked so hard for your entire life.

We used to install a lot of Rheems until this policy came about. We won't use them anymore. I do see just as many clogged flame arrestors on Rheem as I do other brands.

Thanks for the info about Rheem starting to make their TRD devices available for replacement. I called Rheem on Friday to ask them about this because I don't want to be misinforming my clients with the brochure we made about this problem. Tech support told me that they just had a big meeting on the subject the day before and they will be available nationwide by the end of the month. They will only be available to Rheem authorized service companies.

I knew they would have to change this policy sooner or later. I will have to find the copy of the tech bulletin that they emailed me many months ago that said the appliance was unsafe to operate after a thermal shutdown. Now all of the sudden it is okay? Were they lying to us then or now? Either way it still gives me great cannon fodder to compete with this product and the big box stores.:thumbsup:

As a side note, my conversation with tech support was quite interesting. I knew more about their product than the idiot on the other line. It was amusing to listen to him feverishly type my questions in to his computer to get Rheems correct canned response to my questions. 

The idiot told me that lint doesn't cause problems with their heaters because "they don't have filters that need to be changed." WTF? Dughhh! Noone else has filters either! When ever I asked what is different about their flame trap that makes them impervious to lint the response was always "no filters." He said the only way the TRD device would break is if flammable vapors entered the combustion chamber. :laughing: I finally just thanked him for his time and told him to have a nice day.


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## jrplumbing74 (Apr 19, 2009)

> The idiot told me that lint doesn't cause problems with their heaters because "they don't have filters that need to be changed." WTF? Dughhh! Noone else has filters either! When ever I asked what is different about their flame trap that makes them impervious to lint the response was always "no filters." He said the only way the TRD device would break is if flammable vapors entered the combustion chamber. :laughing: I finally just thanked him for his time and told him to have a nice day.


 The American brand heaters I install do have the air inlet filters built in and also the wrap around filter that closes off area between bottom of heater and pan.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Ahhh, yes, I forgot about the wrap around filter. What crap that thing is! 

I do forsee at some point all of the manufacturers will go to some sort of a pleated filter of some type to prevent dust from clogging on the flame arrestors. It seems to be the logical thing to do. Some of the flame arrestors are larger than others and therefore take a little longer to clog but I don't beleive any of these will make it without needing service and cleaning at some time during the normal life of the heater.

The good news is these new heaters are definately safer and require more maintenance which means more work for us plumbers!

Annual tune-ups? Why not? It works well for the HVAC guys.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

This has been known to cure the problem...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

That's one way to get endless hot water :laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

If a rheem water heater overheats the TRD will pop. Its not always caused by a vapor fire. Improper venting can cause it and the installation enviroment can also cause it. The warmer the climate the worse the problem is with the trd's I'm sure.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Now all you have to do is convince Rheem tech support Tm. :thumbsup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Pipedoc said:


> Now all you have to do is convince Rheem tech support Tm. :thumbsup:


 I try to keep parts for a few brands....That takes all the headache out of it for me. If I have the parts I can repair almost anything.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*The Rheem has the best design...*

rheem review here

http://weilhammerplumbing.com/products/


People are jerry rigging Whirlpool heaters all over the country, mine basically was already rigged up before I walked in the door...


Believe it or not, 
their was ia fellow on another site that had to have his post banned becasue he had " jerry rigged" over 50 Whirlpool gas thermostats valves with a new *high limit fuse* he bought at graingers..... he claimed that this was the problem and actually somehow said you could take the thermostat off the heater and switch the wire on the back side of the gas valve...

I told him he was nuts.., and the moderator wisely 
decided to take his info off the thread..














rheem really does have the best design, 
with this one minor flaw,,, 

bradford has a great design too... 

they are both good... 

You can actually jerry rig the rheem unit if you 
want to take the chance with a bobby pin or a rock 
for that matter... 


its no different than opening the spring on a mouse trap 
and putting something in it to jam it open so it wont shut again
and close off the air...


basically , what I was told is they are going to send out
the glass vials with the peanut oil , and 
all you got to do is reach in and pry the spring open and insert a 
*new piece of chese in the mouse trap*




I see so many of the whirlpools already aborted 
and the unit I worked on was already rigged up.

thats my story and i am sticking to it.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

The mouse trap door is only to stop a sustained vapor burn. Thats just an added feature. defeating that feature will not cause the water heater to ignite vapor outside the burn chamber......or so is said. I dont disable saftey features. Ofcourse the door must stay open for the burner to have air to burn


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

American Water Heaters likes building crap like that.
Look at what they did with the Energy Smart Water Heater...:blink:

If the thing craps out hope its a bad element...
Cause if its a sensor or brain board problem you'll be calling the India Hot Line at 1-800-999-9515 and after talking to Rashid you'll be without hot water until the parts arrive next week unless you want to pay extra for shipping.

I'll pass on that brand...:thumbup:


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> rheem review here
> 
> http://weilhammerplumbing.com/products/
> 
> ...


 Mark, Why do you give the Richmond heaters and GE heaters a "C"?


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Replaced another Rheem heater this last week. Home was built in 2004. The heater was made in August of '04.

The heater was installed in the laundry/mechanical room. The HO kept the home very clean.

TRD device tripped due to lint on the flame arrestor. I told the HO to call Rheem 'cause they say the heater is now servicable. She called Rheem as I was packing up my tools and writing her invoice. They told her that the part is not yet available and they would give her a new unit under warranty and she could have her plumber install it.

I priced a better heater for her but she still wanted the Rheem. If she would have bought a new heater from me she would have had a full 6 year warranty, a better heater, and she wouldn't have to pay me all over again to replace the heater the next time a $2 part fails. Instead, she had to pay for the new heater at a local supply house and wait for a credit from the supplier after Rheem credits them plus a $100 handling charge by the supplier, pay me for pick up and delivery of the new heater plus installation. She saved about $50 after her credit and is only left with a 11 month tank warranty only.

I have 1 question.

How are Rheem service reps going to clean the flame arrestor on these heaters after they replace the TRD?


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

More pics.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Notice in the 1st pic how most of the lint is coming from the back portion of the water heater.......I bet the dryer was on the left side facing that water heater. I bet her dryer hose hasn't had a good connection the entire times she's lived there. To clean it I do not see how you could unless you used a torch to burn it out from the burn chamber. Maybe they will not advise replacing the trd if a vapor incident didn't happen.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Was there that many safety issues with the older style water heaters to justify the newer sealed burner type water heaters? Obviously they are more problematic, which will tempt HO's to play with them more trying to fix them.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Was there that many safety issues with the older style water heaters to justify the newer sealed burner type water heaters? Obviously they are more problematic, which will tempt HO's to play with them more trying to fix them.


I installed a w/h in a utility room in the 80's and it "caught fire". It was before 18" platforms were required. The HO sued me, Moore Supply and Rheem. Those kinds of law suits started the transformation IMO. I am all for safety but I don't see a big improvement. If Ho is carless, things are going to happen and we will all pay for it.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

It all started because of kids being burned. Idiots storing gas and lawn mowers in the house so it doesn't gt wet or stolen.
I think in a garage is the only place it should be required or an out building.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Where did you find that one???*



Pipedoc said:


> How are Rheem service reps going to clean the flame arrestor on these heaters after they replace the TRD?


Those are some very good pics, 
but I thought that rheem did not have an internal screen that could clog up like this......looking at the schmatics off a Rheem dialogue it always lookied like their was a clear passage into the burner chamber without any filter that needs to be cleaned...

according to their advertisements their is no lint filter that needs to be messsed with..

the diagrams does not
show that screen anywhere.....

is this a True Rheem heater or a GE or a Richmond brand???.

I suggest you keep that heater for a while..

that has to be some kind of early proto -type that they **** canned
because if you look at this link , it aint the same..


I am going to have to turn one over and look for myself,
how much cutting was involved with getting into the bottom of 
that Rheem unit??...


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bgehome.com/images/fvir_b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bgehome.com/water_heaters_fvir.php&usg=__QjZd0-F-au3K1rewZ9vwgYlUhpk=&h=378&w=125&sz=7&hl=en&start=6&sig2=ls3SksXFFwzxcI2lAaYXwg&um=1&tbnid=WP2Yx8Hjo1ujgM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=40&ei=BP2hSa7uO6W-MYuJycEL&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drheem%2Bfvir%2Bheater%2Bpics%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1G1GGLQ_ENUS281%26sa%3DN


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*becasue I can*



Pipedoc said:


> Mark, Why do you give the Richmond heaters and GE heaters a "C"?


I did that cause no one in our town wants to do the service for those two brands....

and I get calls from cheap ass home owners who install their own and expect me to come out and make repairs for them under the Rheem warranty....I tell them it dont work that way 

.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Notice in the 1st pic how most of the lint is coming from the back portion of the water heater.......I bet the dryer was on the left side facing that water heater. I bet her dryer hose hasn't had a good connection the entire times she's lived there. To clean it I do not see how you could unless you used a torch to burn it out from the burn chamber. Maybe they will not advise replacing the trd if a vapor incident didn't happen.


 The heater was located next to the washing machine. The layout was dryer, washer, heater, then furnace. The home and laundry/mechanical room was very clean.

This is typical of the Rheems that I have been replacing over the last several years.

Every brand heater is susceptiple to failures from lint. Some more so than others. IMHO Bradford White has the best flame arrestor because it is the largest of all of the brands out there but there arrestor will and does clog too. I beleive the solution is very simple. Add a changeable pleated type filter where the air intake is on the outside of the heater that is easily changed like a furnace filter and the problem will be solved. If the HO neglects to change the filter, well then its on them when they have a problem.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> Those are some very good pics,
> but I thought that rheem did not have an internal screen that could clog up like this......looking at the schmatics off a Rheem dialogue it always lookied like their was a clear passage into the burner chamber without any filter that needs to be cleaned...
> 
> according to their advertisements their is no lint filter that needs to be messsed with..
> ...


 Yep, Rheem has a flame arrestor too. The flame arrestor is what prevents the ignited flammable vapors from escaping back outside of the combustion chamber. The damper is just their way of causing the heater to shut down after an FVIR incident. It serves the same purpose as the TCO in other brands only it works differently. For whatever reason it seems that Rheem doesn't want to talk too much about the flame arrestor but it is still there. I think it is because they know they have a very big design flaw here.

Look at the link again Mark the flame arrestor plate is there. If you look at my pictures and look at the cutaway image they have you can figure out where it is. That cutaway image they use is kind of crappy. If they showed a picture of an actual cutaway like Bradford it would be a lot clearer. They also mention the flame arrestor plate on the web page you linked to.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Forgot to add the screenshot.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> is this a True Rheem heater or a GE or a Richmond brand???.
> 
> I suggest you keep that heater for a while..
> 
> ...


 Forgot to answer those questions too.

Damn! I'm getting forgetful. :laughing:
It is a Rheem but the RUUD, GE, and Richmond are the same.

It was easy to open. Turn it over and take off the 4 sheet metal screws holding on the bottom shell. Then take a drill and a small bit to drill out the 4 pop rivets that hold the damper on. I used my grinder to cut off the the thin sheet metal "firewall" to the combustion chamber. Tin snips will work but all I had were straight snips so it was easier to get the grinder out.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*that is just duckie....*



Pipedoc said:


> Forgot to answer those questions too.
> 
> Damn! I'm getting forgetful. :laughing:
> It is a Rheem but the RUUD, GE, and Richmond are the same.
> ...


 

HOW MANY have you had troubles with?????

I have not had the first problem with this yet, but I am gonnna take one apart* asap* and see this for myself......it looks no better than the Smith design with the ****ty little air intake...

.I was told that their was no restriction and if you read the info that I posted, that you re-posted they claim their are no screens to be cleaned...

this is beginning to really suck the big one...
I was really beginning to like them again...

my Rheem supplier dont know the first thing about this, but I have e-mailed him your pics for fun tonight...
This will probably chapp his ass very badly

thanks for takeing the time to do this...

this puts Bradford white way ahead of the pack again in my mind..
------------------------------------------------------

Now how does that saying go....??

you can stick you head up the bulls ass
to see if it is really steak, 

or you can just take the Butchers word for it...


looks like you cant take anyones word for anything anymore 
...you got to actually look for your self...


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> HOW MANY have you had troubles with?????
> 
> I have not had the first problem with this yet, but I am gonnna take one apart* asap* and see this for myself......it looks no better than the Smith design with the ****ty little air intake...




I am seeing Rheems with this problem at about the same rate as other brands. I'm in a highly populated area with lots of different suppliers so we see a wide range of different brand heaters on a regular basis.


Master Mark said:


> .I was told that their was no restriction and if you read the info that I posted, that you re-posted they claim their are no screens to be cleaned...
> 
> this is beginning to really suck the big one...



Well that is true. The FA is not really a screen. Even though they all act as a good dust screen that isn't their intended purpose.

I heard the same b.s. when I called Rheem. I kind of touched on it in an earlier post in this thread. I think Rheem figured out about what I call a design flaw too late after tooling up for production and it would have been too costly to make the change. (I am talking about not being able to clean the flame arrestor) Something must be going on that has finally caused them to change their policy on warranty and now making the part available. My big question is how and the heck they are going to clean the FA to keep the newly installed TRD from tripping right away. They must have figured out some way of doing it. 

If you take one apart you will see what I mean. For all of the other brands I will use my air compressor to blow air from the combustion chamber out through the bottom to clean the FA. Rheems design is completely different and I don't see how the air compressor will get any kind of a satisfactory result. This does a pretty fair job on the other brands but not as good as I would like. I'm gonna try TM's idea and put a torch to this one and see how it does. I will post pics of the results.

I know most of the plumbers on here don't like American water heaters or State but they are the easiest to clean and will produce the best cleaning results with air. Bradford has that nice big FA (the largest of them all) but becuase the openings at the bottom of the tank don't go straight out trough the jacket it doesn't clean as well as American or State etc.

If anyone knows of a better way to clean these, please share it. The compressor is the best way I can think of.



Master Mark said:


> I was really beginning to like them again...
> 
> my Rheem supplier dont know the first thing about this, but I have e-mailed him your pics for fun tonight...
> This will probably chapp his ass very badly
> ...


 I am interested in hearing what he has to say. Please let us know the outcome of the conversation.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*I guess they all have problems*

well, I have avoided Rheem SINCE 2003 and only put them in when a customer asks for them... they were just too fat...

I actually tangled with the CEO of Rheem (jack Barker) on the phone back in 04 when they increased the size of the FVIR heater by 3 inches.....

I had a few choice words for him about how fat the heater was while I was actually installing a Bradford White heater....and I could not use his heater anymore untill they made it smaller......


he tells me I must not know much about Rheem heaters and their great new FVIR design, and I barked back to him that I have two 18 foot tall Rheem water heater bill boards on both sides of my building that Rheem paid for...:laughing:.. 

 and I was not going to tear down a home just to get his fat assed heater down into the basement...:blink::laughing:

they re-designed the heater to be thinner after the ear-full they got from me... my supplier later asked me what kind of fire did I light under his ass,, cause Rheem never listened to the complaints from the plumbing supplier..., 

 so I dont have many of them out there.
------------------------------------------------------..

The Bradfords have been another story and I probably got a few thousand of them installed in linty laundry rooms all over town...

I suppose that they too will clog up if subjected to a lot of abuse.......

I will have to do that experiment on the next leaking Bradford white I take out of a nasty hole...


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