# Anyone hold a patent?



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I just had (what I think) is an excellent idea for a plumbing related product.

Has anyone done the patent search and application before?

I am not very educated in this arena..... I assume I should not shop my product to manufacturers until I have the patent application filed?

Have you been down this road before?

I looked in to the big patent companies. They seem like scams.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> I just had (what I think) is an excellent idea for a plumbing related product.
> 
> Has anyone done the patent search and application before?
> 
> ...


Detail your idea on paper, including photos of any prototypes you may have built, any sketches you may have made, and any documentation on research resources used, and mail it to yourself via first class mail with a received receipt. Upon receipt of this package you have dated proof of your idea that will hold up in court, and you can shop your idea while you apply for a patent, which can be done directly with the patent office.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I had a few I tried to paten. Cost me 500 bucks a pop, plus working models only to have them shot down

Automatic locks for dumpsters, light weight well covers and I cant remember the others

Pretty much KTS covered it


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Detail your idea on paper, including photos of any prototypes you may have built, any sketches you may have made, and any documentation on research resources used, and mail it to yourself via first class mail with a received receipt. Upon receipt of this package you have dated proof of your idea that will hold up in court, and you can shop your idea while you apply for a patent, which can be done directly with the patent office.


 
Wow! I gotta say KTS that is a good idea. I assume the opening of this "package" would have to be witnessed by some extremely trustworthy individuals. To verify the actual contents.

Thanks again man!

If any of you other guys have comments, fire away


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I dont hold a patent. (yes i get them, a return email would be nice, or you could just call me.)


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

And then if its any good the Chinese will still copy it....:whistling2:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

The chinese take everything.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

My design for an automatic dumpster lock was that the thing stays locked so no one can use it except for the renter. When the truck arrives it would lift it up and when the dumpster tilted back it would unlock itself, empty the trash, set it down where it automatically re locks itself. Problem. Say BFI could buy one, have their welders open it up, re produce thousands of them and use them. As long as they dont sell them they are not breaking any laws. So they can use them without paying me. Pisser.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> Wow! I gotta say KTS that is a good idea. I assume the opening of this "package" would have to be witnessed by some extremely trustworthy individuals. To verify the actual contents.
> 
> Thanks again man!
> 
> If any of you other guys have comments, fire away


You never open the package unless it is in court, or after you have received your patent, I hold a few of them, all of them are racecar related.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You never open the package unless it is in court, or after you have received your patent, I hold a few of them, all of them are racecar related.


That makes perfect sense now. Thanks man


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> That makes perfect sense now. Thanks man


No problem, one of the reasons you guys keep my non plumber ass around.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> The chinese take everything.


We had a product that was patented, or purchasing wizards figured they could get the metal stamping and plating done in China cheap cheap...:whistling2:

So they pulled our stamping dies from a company in the US that had done it for years and shipped them off to China...:blink:

They then came back and said the final stamping die that did our logo stamped into the product was badly worn and needed to be reworked which we paid to have done...

Next thing we see is everybody and his brother has a product identical to ours...

We pulled the stamping dies back and they reworked it so our logo was an insert that could be removed from the die and everyone else's could be put in its place...

Of course the dies had a bit of accelerated wear from all the extra stamping they had done....:laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> The chinese take everything.


 
Correct. I don't want to rain on the parade...but having a patent gives you control of a design. 

Having capital, serious capital which would involve your design being produced in china (you will not make money on any idea using american labor) and trying to keep your good idea locked.


But here's the scenario, and I'll use myself as an example.


I have a great idea, it works. Have it on my workbench and if I produced it, would save TONS of people money in the plumbing field. 

I perfected this idea using ideas WATTS uses in their backflow devices. I just created something they haven't and in order for me to make it a go, I need a couple million dollars, and a solid working relationship with china.

Cash talks Bull**** walks. 

If I create a patent, I'm giving everyone permission around this patent to modify even the simplest of design, 60% and now they have a full run, and more money if that is the case and steal my idea, legally.

This is what WATTS will do to me if I create this blueprint, aka patent. 

Here are the truest words spoken, and if you have the network, outreach, you can make millions till your idea is taken and the people who took your idea, shut it down: 


Build your device, sell it. No patent. Put your product in stores without permission, buy stuff and retag it with their upc codes. Those stores will make money off you, and when they go searching for "how" they ended up on their shelves...

"I don't know" :whistling2: *Create a demand for your product; if it is a good one, people will buy it*

Make as much freaking money as you can, do it almost underground or just a website, then wait for the idea to be stolen.

Change your design 60%, keep rolling on because now you've played the game in reverse, stopping all that front end expense and disappointment. 

That's what I'm going to do if I ever get time and some capital, relationships with China short of a restaurant and that little massage room on the corner of 5th and Scott. :blink:


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Detail your idea on paper, including photos of any prototypes you may have built, any sketches you may have made, and any documentation on research resources used, and mail it to yourself via first class mail with a received receipt. Upon receipt of this package you have dated proof of your idea that will hold up in court, and you can shop your idea while you apply for a patent, which can be done directly with the patent office.


:no: Urban legend. Just because you had the idea first doesn't mean squat. If I have the same idea and beat you to the patent office the patent is mine.

ILP, I looked in to patening a plumbing tool about ten years ago. I was about 2 grand in to a patent attorney doing the pre-patent search and a similar tool hit the market. I didn't pursue it any further after that.

There are several ways to make money off the invention of a new product (as explained to me by the attorney) but usually the most lucrative way is also the most risky way.

If you get your patent you could sell it, lease it, etc. Your product will be worth more if you have a working prototype rather than concepts on paper.

Good luck!


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Pipedoc said:


> :no: Urban legend. Just because you had the idea first doesn't mean squat. If I have the same idea and beat you to the patent office the patent is mine.
> 
> ILP, I looked in to patening a plumbing tool about ten years ago. I was about 2 grand in to a patent attorney doing the pre-patent search and a similar tool hit the market. I didn't pursue it any further after that.
> 
> ...


Not urban legend, I had to go to court once because someone tried to jump a patent on me, I won because I could prove a development process, my opposition could not provide proof. This patent was for an improvement on another patent, that may have something to do with it.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

After my experience with spray foam, I can get a patent on DA.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> No problem, one of the reasons you guys keep my non plumber ass around.


 Not true KTS !! I'm just keepin you around cause i been waiting for that DAMN SPIDER TO MOVE FOR YEARS !!!!

good advice on the patents ,, THX !


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Cal said:


> Not true KTS !! I'm just keepin you around cause i been waiting for that DAMN SPIDER TO MOVE FOR YEARS !!!!
> 
> good advice on the patents ,, THX !



How's this?


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Not urban legend, I had to go to court once because someone tried to jump a patent on me, I won because I could prove a development process, my opposition could not provide proof. This patent was for an improvement on another patent, that may have something to do with it.


Did they receive their patent and then lost it in favor of you or were you both trying to patent at the same time and you were able to prove that your idea predated his?


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Pipedoc said:


> Did they receive their patent and then lost it in favor of you or were you both trying to patent at the same time and you were able to prove that your idea predated his?


The two claims were filed close enough together for basically the same thing, the patent office called a hearing for both parties to extend their evidence for the patent, I provided evidence that would be accepted in any court in the land, the other party provided nada, I was awarded the patent.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

A plumber in my local invented the tile flange. He has some guy with a plastic injection shop make them, whenever he gets enough orders for them.


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## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

to ilplumber, iam the inventor of cinch-n-lift magnetic water heater lifting handles. although you can go the route of mailing a certified letter back to your self the documentation of your invention that process will not blanket your invention but only a first to file idea of the your invention. what i mean by that is that the post office does not have any documentation of the paperwork within the paperwork or letter you are sending certified mail just the envelope itself. what you should do is get on line and go to legalzoom.com there you will find that they can file file a provisional patent for you and the cost is probably around 300.00 or so. after filing you will recieve a letter from uspatent that your paper work was recieved at that point you have 12 months to build a prototype, show your invention, and possibly get idea to be carried by supply houses or manufacturers. if you have any questions you can reach me at [email protected] im living in arizona but was born in libertyville, illinois have fun and beee carefull!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Detail your idea on paper, including photos of any prototypes you may have built, any sketches you may have made, and any documentation on research resources used, and mail it to yourself via first class mail with a received receipt. Upon receipt of this package you have dated proof of your idea that will hold up in court, and you can shop your idea while you apply for a patent, which can be done directly with the patent office.


This is true, But you can not open it. You have to leave the seal intack. Also it should be registered mail.


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

I invented post it notes


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

express said:


> I invented post it notes


Really? Do tell.


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