# Opinions on jetting cast iron



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm curious to see what others opinions are as far as the best way to go about jetting old cast iron pipe up to 4" or residential . More specifically, what's the best way to deal with the heavy rust and scale build up and the channel that is created on the bottom of cast iron. Do y'all think it's better to not try to remove all that rust for fear of damaging the pipe? And if you do try to get all the scale and rust out of there what is the most effective nozzle you have found to do that? A lot of guys I work with say just tunnel and replace it but I'm curious to see if there is a way to bring it back to good condition without destroying it.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

We have had fairly good success using the warthog and following up with a flusher (all jets to the rear) nozzle. This is best accomplished by running the jetter from downstream back up the line and then flushing back downstream. We do not typically run the machine at full force on elderly CI piping. We also use our camera a lot when jetting to monitor the progress.

Getting the rust out isn't so hard. The problem is when the pipe is at that degraded point, anything short of replacing it is temporary. Added to the mix is the very rough inside of the pipe. Even when new, CI is not exactly a water slide. So bear in mind that you will never get all the rust out and a jetter will not polish the sides of the pipe so as to make them smooth.

As toilets are designed to operate with less water per flush, and rough pipes require more per flush to maintain buoyancy, it is a no win proposition for the capabilities of the system in the future. So, getting the rust out is only one small aspect of the overall problem.

Now what is left of the pipe? By blasting out the rust with a jetter you are basically removing deteriorating pieces of the pipe itself. So how much is too much? Unless you have x-ray vision it is going to be almost impossible to know for sure. 

EVERY TIME you jet elderly CI pipe, you run the risk of blowing through it. I suggest a disclaimer on your jetting proposals/invoices that address your inability to guarantee how well the old piping will hold up (or NOT hold up) during the process.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> We have had fairly good success using the warthog and following up with a flusher (all jets to the rear) nozzle. This is best accomplished by running the jetter from downstream back up the line and then flushing back downstream. We do not typically run the machine at full force on elderly CI piping. We also use our camera a lot when jetting to monitor the progress.
> 
> Getting the rust out isn't so hard. The problem is when the pipe is at that degraded point, anything short of replacing it is temporary. Added to the mix is the very rough inside of the pipe. Even when new, CI is not exactly a water slide. So bear in mind that you will never get all the rust out and a jetter will not polish the sides of the pipe so as to make them smooth.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much, Biz. As usual you have great advice and wisdom to pass on. You validated some of my own thoughts and offered some good suggestions. The main reason I was asking was lately I have jetted a lot of CI and also ran a camera at the same time but could just never seem to remove all the scale or rust. Now I know that I probably should not try too hard.

Sounds like I need to get a warthog nozzle, not just for cast iron but all the other applications it is effective with. I will remain cautious with cast iron from now on and not worry too much about the build up. Thanks, again.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I always found a chain knocker makes short work of the scale. If you want you can get a rotary nozzle that uses chain flails, or do as I do and use one that attaches to the rodder.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

elderly cast iron I love it.
Wonder if it can collect Social security
10 % early bird discount
sick care benefits
government assistance


All kidding aside video inspect after each pass.
ours we have 1 forward 3 back .3 forward 5 back ,5 forward 9 back and then a 360 head . We do it in stages. Compromised cast is at 2800psi or less and more passes.

caveat the compromised cast iron in your contract so you are not responsible for it.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Clean it up with a chain knocker or root rat, jet the buildup downstream. If it's thin after the camera it was good it got caught early, time to reline it. (or burst) On commercial you can sandblast it then apply a teflon coating that coats the pipe and makes it slippery again. The reason you would do this instead of relining it would be not having to tie in other lines.


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## A Fast Plumbing (Nov 6, 2012)

*Need some info on Chain Knockers*

I see two of you mentioning chain knockers for your rooter machine. I went to the manufacturers website of the main line cleaning equipment I use (Gorlitz). They do not offer a Chain Knocker. I could adapt another manufacturers to my specific connector. But I see you use a sectional rodder machine. I believe they run higher RPM than my machines do. My machine produces plenty of torque for roots and whatever else, but it has the benefit of the mass of the barrel acting as a flywheel. Those sectionals would be the way to go in basement jobs. West coasters do not use sectionals as often because we do very little basement work. 

It seems the chain knocker would only be effective with the higher RPM. My Gorlitz cart jetter with a 13hp Honda may be able to use a smaller version of a root rat or chain knocker. 

Any ideas?


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Call AJ Coleman on the phone and have them make you an adapter for your machine, sure higher rpms would be good but your machine will do it too just a little slower.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

First time I've read something new on Jetting in a while. Thanks to the Op and all the replies.


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## 1929chrysler (Jul 10, 2012)

Cuda said:


> Clean it up with a chain knocker or root rat, jet the buildup downstream. If it's thin after the camera it was good it got caught early, time to reline it. (or burst) On commercial you can sandblast it then apply a teflon coating that coats the pipe and makes it slippery again. The reason you would do this instead of relining it would be not having to tie in other lines.


Do you do the sandblasting and Teflon coating? I've never heard of this type of restoration on sewer lines. Makes sense with avoiding the tie in problem though. 

I'd be interested in seeing video links if you have any. Thanks!


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

I have the blaster and the internal pipe coating sprayer and have done only test pipes at our equipment yard. Most new pipe suppliers have the equipment because most big orders like cities and states require the pipe to be blasted and re coated before taking delivery. They don't want pipe made a year ago sitting in a yard rusting installed. And before lining came out companies would blast and re coat stacks in tall buildings to preserve the pipe. I have a 2 part spray machine that sprays polyurea but it dries in 15-45 seconds, I am trying to create a sprayer assembly that will allow me to coat sewer pipes and conduits with polyurea. So far it has clogged on me over and over, but I have not given up. They have robots that do it now for huge tunnel projects I am just trying to bring it down in size. So thats why I have the equipment. Also I truly believe that lining would be a better product if it actually adhered to the inside of the host pipe and that jetting is not enough of a preparation to the substrate. If concrete and steel and clay pipes where blasted with fine glass then jetted I think the liner would become part of the pipe and not just a pipe in a pipe but maybe it's just me. lol


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> More specifically, what's the best way to deal with the heavy rust and scale build up and the channel that is created on the bottom of cast iron.


If you are seeing a channel in the bottom I would consider the bottom of the pipe to be gone. I'd make damn sure that I wasn't looking at a grease buildup on the sides and top of the pipe first giving the appearance of a channel on the bottom...




Best Darn Sewer said:


> And if you do try to get all the scale and rust out of there what is the most effective nozzle you have found to do that?


The chain flail jetter nozzles are very effective at removing virtually all of the rust scale from the pipe. The Root Rat Cuda mentioned is one also Enz makes a nice one...


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Thank you, Redwood. Your concern of the bottom of the pipe being gone vs scale build up was my concern, too. I use a new Ridgid See Snake with a color lens and the image is crisp. I think typically its build up on the walls and I know what it looks like when the CI is completely dissolved but I am not 100% sure in every case. Lately, I have been getting the bulk of the junk out of the line and calling it good even if the channel remains for fear of making it worse if I continued. I was mainly concerned about blowing out the walls with the jetter. I will get a chain knocker as suggested and try that in the future. Thanks for the advice.


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