# Kitchen sinks



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

When you guys plumb your kitchens that are double bowls, do you trap each bowl or use a continuous waste?


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

I always rough kitchen sinks with three separate vented stub outs in the sink base, one for the trap on the sink, one for the trap for the garbage disposal, and one for the trap for the dishwasher.


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Continuous waste.


----------



## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> I always rough kitchen sinks with three separate vented stub outs in the sink base, one for the trap on the sink, one for the trap for the garbage disposal, and one for the trap for the dishwasher.


huh? 3 traps? One for dishwasher? uhh, nevermind. Don't want to start nothing:laughing:


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Continious waste.


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plasticman said:


> huh? 3 traps? One for dishwasher? uhh, nevermind. Don't want to start nothing:laughing:


Chicago code requires each fixture to have it's own vented trap, a dishwasher is a fixture.


----------



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

If you ever leave Chicago you have to go thru a detox program and psychological readjustment.:yes:


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I've used two traps before but I typically use an End outlet waste and a single trap for the typical double bowl residental K-sink.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Chicago code requires each fixture to have it's own vented trap, a dishwasher is a fixture.


 Do they require one large grease trap outside the building or can places that serve limited food items just a small grease interceptor under the 3 compartment?


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I've used two traps before but I typically use an End outlet waste and a single trap for the typical double bowl residental K-sink.


 Ditto


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Do they require one large grease trap outside the building or can places that serve limited food items just a small grease interceptor under the 3 compartment?



Restaurants are required to have a grease trap sized correctly for the application, commercial buildings with lunch rooms and kitchenette areas can get away with an undersink grease trap, multi family residential buildings typically have an outdoor grease basin, but I have seen them in basements. Single family homes are no longer required to have a grease basin, but any house that is more than twenty years old has one.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

He would have a heart attack if he ever came to Florida :laughing:

<in the looney bin, curled up in ball rocking back and forth> "Studor vents..........every where........must cut in dry VTR...........studor vent........cpvc shower riser.............."



stillaround said:


> If you ever leave Chicago you have to go thru a detox program and psychological readjustment.:yes:


----------



## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

*wow chicago is sure differant*

In ca we use a continuous waste with the dish washer going thru an air gap then into the port on the gd.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Restaurants are required to have a grease trap sized correctly for the application, commercial buildings with lunch rooms and kitchenette areas can get away with an undersink grease trap, multi family residential buildings typically have an outdoor grease basin, but I have seen them in basements. Single family homes are no longer required to have a grease basin, but any house that is more than twenty years old has one.


 So I would expect to see 3 grease traps under a 3 compartment sink in chico..or 3 p-traps leading into one grease trap? I have another question..Does chicago have a lower incidence of illness compared to the rest of the country because of the great plumbing code in place there?


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

99% of the time it's cont. waste for me.




Paul


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> So I would expect to see 3 grease traps under a 3 compartment sink in chico..or 3 p-traps leading into one grease trap? I have another question..Does chicago have a lower incidence of illness compared to the rest of the country because of the great plumbing code in place there?


No, you can't direct connect a commercial sink waste, it has to drain to a floor sink with a minimum 1½" air gap.

I have no idea on the illness front. I don't work in the healthcare industry.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> No, you can't direct connect a commercial sink waste, it has to drain to a floor sink with a minimum 1½" air gap.
> 
> I have no idea on the illness front. I don't work in the healthcare industry.


So you install 3 floor sinks under a 3 compartment sink? I'ma go out on a limb and say people get sick just as much as in anyother U.S.city special plumbing code or not.


----------



## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Individual traps/ IF one stops up they can stilll use the other one. Of course this does not pertain if the stoppage is in the main line of the sink drain.


----------



## brassnipple (Apr 22, 2009)

chicago code for residental I belive is one p-trap with garbage disposel Il.code is two p-traps with a disposel.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

brassnipple said:


> chicago code for residental I belive is one p-trap with garbage disposal IL.code is two p-traps with a disposal.


 Chicago code and Illinois code requires the disposal on its own trap, and the dishwasher can never tie into the knock out on the disposal.


----------



## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

Use a continuous waste kit except on the rare case of the san tee being roughed in too high then its two traps and a wye fitting.


----------



## brassnipple (Apr 22, 2009)

took practical exam last dec. in review class it was only one trap.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

brassnipple said:


> took practical exam last dec. in review class it was only one trap.


You are going to make me go out in the cold and dig in my van for the code book arnt you.


----------



## brassnipple (Apr 22, 2009)

18-29-413.2 DOMESTIC FOOD WASTE GRINDER WASTE OUTLETS. Domestic food waste grinders shall be connected to a drain of not less then 1 1/2 inches (40 ml) in diameter. 
Says nothing about having another trap.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

brassnipple said:


> 18-29-413.2 DOMESTIC FOOD WASTE GRINDER WASTE OUTLETS. Domestic food waste grinders shall be connected to a drain of not less then 1 1/2 inches (40 ml) in diameter.
> Says nothing about having another trap.


Its odd since all local codes must meet the state minimum, they can be stricter than the state, which Chicago is known for, but none of the local codes is allowed to be less strict.


----------



## brassnipple (Apr 22, 2009)

I still use 2 traps for I belive its a better way of doing it. its just good plumbing!


----------



## brassnipple (Apr 22, 2009)

I to was a little taken back,when I was in review class.


----------



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Continuous waste


----------



## spudwrench (Sep 15, 2009)

Two traps, a double wye, or if the rough is off center a little, a 2x11/2wye, with a 1/12 bushing in the end. Branch tailpiece for the DW. If no DW, or disposer, the end outlet waste, with the rough 8" off center works great.


----------



## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Chicago code and Illinois code requires the disposal on its own trap, and the dishwasher can never tie into the knock out on the disposal.


That is so strange because the dishwasher helps cleanse the disposal and it's an indirect drain. I can't imagine stubbing out a drain 3 times for a residential kitchen sink. That code sounds ridiculous. Here we don't have to trap the disposal seperately. I used to think Florida building code was tough but to hear you guys talk, I am beginning to like it more and more.
I'm just saying


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plasticman said:


> That is so strange because the dishwasher helps cleanse the disposal and it's an indirect drain. I can't imagine stubbing out a drain 3 times for a residential kitchen sink. That code sounds ridiculous. Here we don't have to trap the disposal seperately. I used to think Florida building code was tough but to hear you guys talk, I am beginning to like it more and more.
> I'm just saying


From what I have seen FL code is a cakewalk, and CA code is a plain joke, any code that allows someone without a plumbers license to legally install plumbing systems is an insult to the trade.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Per IL code, residential dishwashers can discharge into a branch tailpiece as long as it's not the disposal bowl. 

So a double bowl sink would have the disposal and it's trap and the other bowl with DW tailpiece and a trap. The DW discharge has to be looped up against the counter. This is residential mind you.


Grease interceptors located on the same floor as the fixture being served have to be 50% of the total volume of all bowls of the fixture. If located on a lower floor the grease interceptor has to be 60% of the total capacity of all the bowls of the fixture.

Triple bowl sinks can be direct connected to the sanitary waste if there is an ADJACENT floor drain. Which means it is teed into the same pipe as the sink is hooked to below the floor. OR they can be discharged into a floor drain/sink sized and designed as to prevent splashing.

My code book is sitting in a gangbox so, I don't have chapter and verse but, you get the idea.

I am not to up on Chicago code anymore so this is all based on IL plumbing code. 

Paul Harvey......Good day!


----------



## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> From what I have seen FL code is a cakewalk, and CA code is a plain joke, any code that allows someone without a plumbers license to legally install plumbing systems is an insult to the trade.


Ca uses the UPC, as alot of other states do, I don't consider it a joke. If you are in the Plumbing bus you must have a valid C-36 plumbing contractors license. Some of the big cities also require a Journeyman to be certified just to be installing it. Yes, compared to some of the stringent requirements of the IPC and additional Chicago city codes, we have it a litte less complicated; but to say we are a joke and an insult to the trade is just plain wrong!:furious::furious::furious:


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

plumb4fun said:


> Ca uses the UPC, as alot of other states do, I don't consider it a joke. If you are in the Plumbing bus you must have a valid C-36 plumbing contractors license. Some of the big cities also require a Journeyman to be certified just to be installing it. Yes, compared to some of the stringent requirements of the IPC and additional Chicago city codes, we have it a litte less complicated; but to say we are a joke and an insult to the trade is just plain wrong!:furious::furious::furious:


I think he was referring to the $500 job thing.

I am also a licensed contractor in a UPC state. UPC is VERY lax. It is somewhat of a joke. No plumbers or the trade are being insulted. A code is being insulted. As far as I know. The UPC doesn't have hurty feelings


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

plumb4fun said:


> Ca uses the UPC, as alot of other states do, I don't consider it a joke. If you are in the Plumbing bus you must have a valid C-36 plumbing contractors license. Some of the big cities also require a Journeyman to be certified just to be installing it. Yes, compared to some of the stringent requirements of the IPC and additional Chicago city codes, we have it a litte less complicated; but to say we are a joke and an insult to the trade is just plain wrong!:furious::furious::furious:


Your state code allows a GC to install plumbing without having a plumbing license, it is a joke, plain and simple.


----------



## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

One full sized trap for dbl bowl sinks. D.W. drains into disposal or D.W tailpeice. I like using full sized pipe, trap, and T Y not the tubular, which is more likely to plug and leak.


----------



## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

The General Contractor's butt is still on the line just the same as a licensed plumber and he must install according to code! Most do hire professional plumbing contractors anyway.


----------



## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> One full sized trap for dbl bowl sinks. D.W. drains into disposal or D.W tailpeice. I like using full sized pipe, trap, and T Y not the tubular, which is more likely to plug and leak.


I agree 100% that is exactly how I do it :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

i normally run 3" to my kitchen sink and then knock it down to 2" for the riser, I tie everthing into a 1 1/2" slip joint trap and waaa la . 3 traps is too much, i got alot of cleaners and scrubbers that live under my sink, id be pissed if it was cluttered with a bunch of bogas plumbing pipes


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Your state code allows a GC to install plumbing without having a plumbing license, it is a joke, plain and simple.


 
It's not the code that's the joke, it's the CSLB. Yes, a GC can install plumbing if they are doing 2 other trades on the same job and one of them is framing. They can't solely do plumbing, not legally at least(not that it isn't done on a regular basis). The $500 thing applies to all trades, not just plumbing. Under Ca. contracting laws I could legally do electrical or framing if the total was under $500. All I would need is a business license and _maybe_ a Handyman license (yes, we have those here ) In many ways this entire state is a joke with the way they do things. I'm sure you would be amazed at the things that are done here by "professionals".







Paul


----------



## plumb4fun (Feb 18, 2009)

rocksteady said:


> It's not the code that's the joke, it's the CSLB. Yes, a GC can install plumbing if they are doing 2 other trades on the same job and one of them is framing. They can't solely do plumbing, not legally at least(not that it isn't done on a regular basis). The $500 thing applies to all trades, not just plumbing. Under Ca. contracting laws I could legally do electrical or framing if the total was under $500. All I would need is a business license and _maybe_ a Handyman license (yes, we have those here ) In many ways this entire state is a joke with the way they do things. I'm sure you would be amazed at the things that are done here by "professionals".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Hey Paul, don't let them think we don't have it together here in the golden state! our real estate values have aready dropped enough! LOL :laughing:


----------



## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

Continuous waste and when I can I love leaving a c/o. Figure if not me, then the next guy might appreciate it.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

bigdaddyrob said:


> Continuous waste and when I can I love leaving a c/o. Figure if not me, then the next guy might appreciate it.


F the "next" guy, he dont do sh!t for me, why should I hafta go above and beyond to make his life easy:whistling2:


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Double traps is against code. One trap per fixture.


----------



## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Double traps is against code. One trap per fixture.


Ya, a continuous waste is the way to go. Double traps is just strange. 



GREENPLUM said:


> F the "next" guy, he dont do sh!t for me, why should I hafta go above and beyond to make his life easy


Trouble with that is often _I am_ the "next" guy. I get lots of return business and service work years later on houses I plumbed. I like to do the little extras to make things easier for service work down the road.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Double traps is against code. One trap per fixture.


 
Double traps in consecutive order is against code. Individually trapped bowls is not.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Double traps in consecutive order is against code. Individually trapped bowls is not.


 This man is spot on:thumbup:


----------



## longplumb (Nov 15, 2009)

Continuous waste with DW connected to disposal. 2 traps under sink is to much, unless absolutely necessary.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> Double traps in consecutive order is against code. Individually trapped bowls is not.


Not here my friend.


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Hey ron, so what yo're saying, this would be illegal? Weird.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

If you think about it each bowl is its own fixture. Lets go in bathrooms that have two lav sinks side by side. Are you going to use an end waste and a single trap?

Yes most kitchen sinks are two bowls molded into one piece. But what about where they use the single under mount bowls side by side Now they are defiantly two separate bowls.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

house plumber said:


> Hey ron, so what yo're saying, this would be illegal? Weird.
> 
> 
> View attachment 4166


Yes hold on I'll post the code reference.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> If you think about it each bowl is its own fixture. Lets go in bathrooms that have two lav sinks side by side. Are you going to use an end waste and a single trap?
> 
> Yes most kitchen sinks are two bowls molded into one piece. But what about where they use the single under mount bowls side by side Now they are defiantly two separate bowls.


If the distance between the two lavs is within 30" then is is allowed by our code, don't see it often thou


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Here is the code referenced.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

*Section 890.410 Fixture Traps/Continuous Waste*
a) Fixture Traps. All directly connected plumbing fixtures, except those having integral traps, shall be separately trapped by a water-seal trap, placed as close to the fixture outlet as possible. A kitchen sink with up to 3 basins may be installed on one trap if one compartment is not more than 6 inches deeper than the other and the waste outlets are not more than 30 inches apart. (See Appendix D: Illustration A.)​*Section 890.710 Food Waste Disposal Units* 
a) Installation. Food waste disposal units shall be trapped separately from any other fixture or compartment, shall be connected directly to the sanitary drainage system, and shall be properly vented. Dishwashers shall not discharge into food waste disposal units. Units may have either automatic or hand-operated water supply control. (See Section 890.1130(a), (b) and (c).)​*Section 890.770 Dishwashing Machines* 
a) Domestic Dishwasher (Private Residence). When a domestic dishwashing machine drain line is connected to the house side of a trap from a sink, the drain from the dishwasher shall be carried up to the underside of the spill rim of the sink. Dishwashing machines shall discharge separately into a trap or tail piece of the kitchen sink and shall not connect to the food waste disposal unit.​


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Keep in mind, my code specifies trap arm.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I follow "themasters code". It specifcally states I can do it the way I want. And I do!


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Continuous waste. Only 3% of the homes up here have disposals from what I seen so far.


----------



## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

*totaly illegall!!*

Each trap must allways be vented.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Each trap must allways be vented.


Wut?:blink:

Which post is this in reference to. I'm not sure how to argue with you yet.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

The total DFU's for a DW, Disposal, and Sink basin is 7 (I think).

How many DFU's can you put in a 2" horizontal fixture branch IL guys? :whistling2:

I need to get my code book from a jobsite but, I think you might be suprised as to what it says. 

I think it was GP who said to run a 3" horizontal then turn up a 2" vertical stack. I believe that he is correct.:thumbsup:


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> The total DFU's for a DW, Disposal, and Sink basin is 7 (I think).
> 
> How many DFU's can you put in a 2" horizontal fixture branch IL guys? :whistling2:
> 
> ...


 GP was speaking of the branch drain off the main....not the fixture arm in the wall. If Gp runs 3" and then reduces down to 2" for the vertical that means he is also installing a 2" fixture arm.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

i do stub out 2" for my kit sinks with 3" in close proximity


----------



## spudwrench (Sep 15, 2009)

The D.F.U. value Table F for each 1 1/2" trap is 2, no matter what is connected to it.
1 1/2 arm-3 D.F.U.-2 bowls, cont. waste. 2" arm-6 D.F.U. two traps, disposer, and dishwasher. Without the dishwasher, two traps and disposer, 3 D.F.U., back to a 1 1/2"arm, Table E. Isn't residential plumbing easy?


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

spudwrench said:


> The D.F.U. value Table F for each 1 1/2" trap is 2, no matter what is connected to it.
> 1 1/2 arm-3 D.F.U.-2 bowls, cont. waste. 2" arm-6 D.F.U. two traps, disposer, and dishwasher. Without the dishwasher, two traps and disposer, 3 D.F.U., back to a 1 1/2"arm, Table E. Isn't residential plumbing easy?


I was thinking a disposal was 3 DFU?

I can't remember for sure though.


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Double traps is against code. One trap per fixture.


A garbage disposal is a fixture.


----------



## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Our code states that any appliance that has water connected to it is considered a plumbing fixture. I don't remember exactly how it was worded but that was close. So here a disposal would not be considered a plumbing fixture. Protech, back me up on this one.


----------



## ironandfire (Oct 9, 2008)

*[/B kuntinuus wast:thumbsup:*


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plasticman said:


> Our code states that any appliance that has water connected to it is considered a plumbing fixture. I don't remember exactly how it was worded but that was close. So here a disposal would not be considered a plumbing fixture. Protech, back me up on this one.


So a sink with a wall mounted faucet isn't a fixture?


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> So a sink with a wall mounted faucet isn't a fixture?


 Yeah ,, but a disposal is already connected to a "fixture " . 

2" waste arm to all kitchens ( when possible ) ,,,, my .02


----------



## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Ok. My bad. I was wrong in my thinking again. After re-reading the new code I remember now what was in the back of my mind that happened years ago. We had an ac unit that had to have water connected to it and the code after looking it up did classify it a plumbing fixture so we were charged a fee for it on our permit. So I had my mind on that, confusing it with the disposal rule. Sorry for the confusion.The code is as follows.
Section 201
*PLUMBING FIXTURE.​​​​A ​*receptacle or device that is
either permanently or temporarily connected to the water distribution
system of the premises and demands a supply of
water therefrom; discharges waste water, liquid-borne waste
materials or sewage either directly or indirectly to the
drainage system of the premises; or requires both a water
supply connection and a discharge to the drainage system of
the premises.​
*​*​​​​​


----------

