# General Contractors



## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

In my state, all you have to do is to say you're a GC and Whamo! You're a GC! You can imagine the bozo stuff that goes on here. 

Last year, the state really pushed hard to get all the specialty trades to claim GC status in order to get more money next year and lessen the amount of paper work. Now almost everyone is a GC.

Since I'm now a GC, when someother GC calls and asks for a bid, I in turn ask him to bid for me, as I'm a GC, too!

Great fun, but between you and me....I'm rather embarrassed about being a GC, so I don't advertise it. I mean, I spent my entire life learning plumbing, why would I want to be classified as a GC?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Why not expand out then, since you live in a small town and outsource what you dont know that much about to subs? If I had that kind of classification, and the plumbing wasn't booming, it would be an option to explore. But, everybody's different.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

You must live in the state of confusion:thumbsup:


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

They've started to register GCs in my state and it's sort of voluntary. There are a lot of unregistered ones. But I haven't heard of any plumbers becoming GCs. How, exactly, does one get more money? Is there a GC bailout going on?


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

I would not want to degrade my good name as a master plumber by attaching "GC" to it.


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

They can keep their jack of all, I'm gonna keep my master of one.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

we have all sorts being GCs here now too. Majorly unorganized. scheduling is out to lunch. i usually take the reins and do all the mechanical sched.s so my guys can get in and out more streamlined. good thing is they pay me on the spot so i guess you gotta take the good with the bad.:thumbsup:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Our GC have to show 4-years working as a Journeyman and take a Contractors test just like everyone else.

Mark


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> Our GC have to show 4-years working as a Journeyman and take a Contractors test just like everyone else.
> 
> Mark


4 years experience as a Journey Burger Flipper at McDonalds?

What does the test consist of? 10 questions on how to grow a gut and 100 questions cellphone usage while driving a oversized 4x4 with a little magnetic sign saying "Constructors Construction! We Thread Balls!" ?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

"What does the test consist of? 10 questions on how to grow a gut and 100 questions cellphone usage while driving a oversized 4x4 with a little magnetic sign saying "Constructors Construction! We Thread Balls!" ?"

:icon_lol::laughing::lol:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Plumber said:


> 4 years experience as a Journey Burger Flipper at McDonalds?
> 
> What does the test consist of? 10 questions on how to grow a gut and 100 questions cellphone usage while driving a oversized 4x4 with a little magnetic sign saying "Constructors Construction! We Thread Balls!" ?


It sounds like you must be from a really lax State when it comes to licensing. I guess it keeps people working but it's often a recipe for disaster.

In California you need to prove 4-years working as a Journeyman in the trade which is defined as a person who has completed an apprenticeship program or is an experienced worker, not a trainee, and is fully qualified and able to perform a specific trade without supervision. 

As far as the test it is broken down into two parts. The first part consist of Business Law and Contractor Law while the second part is based on the Trades. As a General Contractor it is for the most part structural loading and foundations but also includes material take offs and estimating. In addition, to building type questions they add a little on roofing, fenestration, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, painting and other specialty trades.

Mark


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Okay I went to your State and looked around and I almost cannot believe how lax it is. If I'm not mistaken there is not even a test to be a Contractor. It looks like the few trades which require testing only test to a Journeyman level and that's it. Then once you're a Journeyman it's simply a matter of registering as a Contractor without any testing involved. Is that it or am I missing something?

Mark


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

*plumber and gc*

*the differance between a plumber and a gc is: *



* PLUMBERS HAVE A BIGGER TOOL YEA BABY! LEAK 1.*


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

In Ca, you do not need 4 years of trade experience for a B license. Anyone can study and pass the test and you are a GC. Most of those guys are dry. They do not ever pick up a tool, just a phone. They sub everything and as long as they have 3 different trades going on at the same job they are good to go. A GC cannot do a repipe alone. They can do a repipe - a rewire - and pour a new driveway however.

4 years of journey work allows one to take a specialized trade test. I have worked for a few a few of these dry guys and it is usually a mess. One does not need real world experience to become a general contractor in CA


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Tankless said:


> In Ca, you do not need 4 years of trade experience for a B license. Anyone can study and pass the test and you are a GC. Most of those guys are dry. They do not ever pick up a tool, just a phone. They sub everything and as long as they have 3 different trades going on at the same job they are good to go. A GC cannot do a repipe alone. They can do a repipe - a rewire - and pour a new driveway however.
> 
> 4 years of journey work allows one to take a specialized trade test. I have worked for a few a few of these dry guys and it is usually a mess. One does not need real world experience to become a general contractor in CA


That's only partially true. California requires proof of four years working as a Journeyman Carpenter or the equilvalant. The proof includes Union card or affidavits and tax records or a Contractors license from another State. As a General Contractor you are permitted to permit/perform 3 or more non related trades as long as one includes framing. However, they are never permitted to do well digging or fire protection and in some jurisdictions they will not let you do Plumbing, HVAC or Electrical. That doesn't mean some have not cheated their way in or have not paid for an RMO. I too have worked for GC who had no business being licensed. In recent years the CSLB has increase the scrutiny of work experience which has helped some.

Mark


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> Okay I went to your State and looked around and I almost cannot believe how lax it is. If I'm not mistaken there is not even a test to be a Contractor. It looks like the few trades which require testing only test to a Journeyman level and that's it. Then once you're a Journeyman it's simply a matter of registering as a Contractor without any testing involved. Is that it or am I missing something?
> 
> Mark


That's right. You must hire Journeyman to do the work, though. There's one ol' plumber who racked up $25,000.00 in fines in '08 for this violation. 

The laxness of the GC laws is what brought all the California speculators up here during the boom. Man, what a mess. Their work will keep us repair plumbers busy for decades. I lobbied for a big fence around state to keep them out, but the State was making too much in fines. :laughing:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I noticed you can test for your Residential Specialty (Service Plumber) Certificate after completing a 6,000 hours Apprenticeship. After obtaining a Residential Specialty Certificate do you just pay a fee and get all of your bonds and insurance and you can apply for a Contractors License? I also noticed they have an Apprenticeship program for drain cleaning (great idea). For a drain cleaner to get a Contractor's License would they test as a Residential Specialty (Service Plumber)?

Mark


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> I noticed you can test for your Residential Specialty (Service Plumber) Certificate after completing a 6,000 hours Apprenticeship. After obtaining a Residential Specialty Certificate do you just pay a fee and get all of your bonds and insurance and you can apply for a Contractors License? I also noticed they have an Apprenticeship program for drain cleaning (great idea). For a drain cleaner to get a Contractor's License would they test as a Residential Specialty (Service Plumber)?
> 
> Mark


There's no such thing as a "Contractors License". You have to register as a construction company, but anyone can be anything as long as you hire properly licensed workers. And be registered as a company

Keep in mind that the real, established businesses protect the terriorty and the Licensing Board tracks down violators every single day. I wasn't kidding about the 25k in fines for one registered plumbing company had last year.

Our Craigslist is very clean because we report violators for not having a business license. If the ad persists, the violator gets a very hard time.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Hmmm, GC's are great, they think they know everything, they use Home Depot tradesman then blame equipment and product when it fails. Even though it wasn't installed properly. 

Fun times, I can't stand GC's and will never work for one, or become one. 

Their license test covers a little of everything, just like their knowledge, but they believe because they have the license that they know everything there is to know about every trade.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> Hmmm, GC's are great, they think they know everything, they use Home Depot tradesman then blame equipment and product when it fails. Even though it wasn't installed properly.
> 
> Fun times, I can't stand GC's and will never work for one, or become one.
> 
> Their license test covers a little of everything, just like their knowledge, but they believe because they have the license that they know everything there is to know about every trade.


 
Wait, who do you work for when you are doing new construction and remodels? I have made millions working for GC in the past and can't imagine not work for any GC. They are not all bad.

Mark


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> Hmmm, GC's are great, they think they know everything, they use Home Depot tradesman then blame equipment and product when it fails. Even though it wasn't installed properly.
> 
> Fun times, I can't stand GC's and will never work for one, or become one.
> 
> Their license test covers a little of everything, just like their knowledge, but they believe because they have the license that they know everything there is to know about every trade.


Dude, I know exactly how you feel on that shiot. I had one the other day that just knew that a stub out for a drop ear ell for a hand held went up high beside the shower head stub out. after making him listen and un package the hose for the handheld, he could then clearly see that the hose wasnt long enough to reach to the seat for the female HO in question. But then again what would i know, Im only a state certified master plumber. Hes a GC. General _____sucker.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> Wait, who do you work for when you are doing new construction and remodels? I have made millions working for GC in the past and can't imagine not work for any GC. They are not all bad.
> 
> Mark


 
I don't do new construction and I turn down remodels with GC's, I have recieved many offers, most start off with " Hi, I understand you do remodel work, the plumber on my job left without completeing the work" Sure, I will go check it out, and I get there, same story, I only have this budget, can you work for $15 and use your tools? 

Maybe million syears ago until the rules of the game changed. Now it's home depot plumbers because they can sweat pipe. Cheap, cheap cheap.

The remodels I take on are for home owners that oversee their own projects and work directly with the trades.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> I don't do new construction and I turn down remodels with GC's, I have recieved many offers, most start off with " Hi, I understand you do remodel work, the plumber on my job left without completeing the work" Sure, I will go check it out, and I get there, same story, I only have this budget, can you work for $15 and use your tools?
> 
> Maybe million syears ago until the rules of the game changed. Now it's home depot plumbers because they can sweat pipe. Cheap, cheap cheap.
> 
> The remodels I take on are for home owners that oversee their own projects and work directly with the trades.


Most of our remodels and new construction were large homes (10-12 bath) so there were very few plumbing contractors who could have done the type of work necessary. They are also the kind of jobs the economy does not seem to bother. The GCs I was working for only did large customs and celebrity homes. If I had my way that is the only work we would have done but I needed a way to pay the bills between phases too.

Mark


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> I noticed you can test for your Residential Specialty (Service Plumber) Certificate after completing a 6,000 hours Apprenticeship. After obtaining a Residential Specialty Certificate do you just pay a fee and get all of your bonds and insurance and you can apply for a Contractors License? I also noticed they have an Apprenticeship program for drain cleaning (great idea). For a drain cleaner to get a Contractor's License would they test as a Residential Specialty (Service Plumber)?
> 
> Mark


The State tracks all the hours from Day One and all plumbers and trainees have to take 16 hours Cont. Ed each year.

The 6000 hour Residential Specialty is "Residential specialty plumbers are limited to installation, maintenance, and repair of plumbing in single-family dwellings, duplexes and apartment buildings that do not exceed three stories."

The 8000 hour (including 4000 in comm or industrial) Journeyman License (that's me) is "Journeyman plumbers are qualified to work in all phases of the plumbing construction trade."

All the tests are handwritten with no calculators. I don't know of anyone who passed it the first time.

Now....given all that I went through to be a plumber, why would I want to say I'm a lowly, boot-kissing GC? No bloody way.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

For better or worse, one plumbing contractor once said "general contractors are the spawn of the devil".


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

It's funny how different areas have different requirements for a General Contractor. The four States (Arizona, California, Nevada and Utah) I am familiar with all require the same work experience qualifications for a GC as they do for a Plumbing Contractor or any other trade. I like that Washington requires the CEU and believe all States should require them. I have 40-hours of CEU through ICC so far this year and it's still early.

Mark


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> Most of our remodels and new construction were large homes (10-12 bath) so there were very few plumbing contractors who could have done the type of work necessary. They are also the kind of jobs the economy does not seem to bother. The GCs I was working for only did large customs and celebrity homes. If I had my way that is the only work we would have done but I needed a way to pay the bills between phases too.
> 
> Mark


Mark
I've got a similar niche on the SF peninsula. Basically, it's over 90% of our work. Up here there are a number of qualified plumbing contractors (and some not so qualified) doing high end residential. Fortunately, with our core of loyal GC's we've hardly seen a downturn. But, bidding to new contractors has been problematic. Seems the competition has gotten hungry. I'll agree that many GC's are to be avoided, but without the trustworthy GC's I've built up relationships with over the years I'd be out of a job.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> The remodels I take on are for home owners that oversee their own projects and work directly with the trades.


:blink:

Things must be very different throughout different parts of the country. I am a Licensed Master Plumber and Licensed General Contractor. The GC exam was a 4 hour test with 200 questions over the ICC codebook. In order to maintain your license you must carry Workman's Compensation, Liability Insurance, and be in good standing with the state. For the most part, these are guys that are playing by the rules. 

Obviously, there is more work that goes into obtaining a Master Plumbing License and nobody is disputing that. But c'mon, these guys don't deserve to be slammed like that. Anybody ever worked on a $100,000 remodel? Do you really thing that the GC on that job isn't willing to pay top dollar for quality workmanship and materials. Not to mention be more understanding and better at preventing problems that can arise during a renovation?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> ...Do you really thing that the GC on that job isn't willing to pay top dollar for quality workmanship and materials....


With all do respect to your hard work and ethics as an individual, the only thing a GC is willing to pay top dollar for is a new pickup every time he starts a house.

BTW: Why is Worker's Comp required for GC's when by the very nature of their trade they have zero employees?


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Yes, you must have WC to obtain your license in my county. Only a sole proprietor can opt out of WC. I don't really know any true GC's either. They almost always have at least a laborer or two. I know they are out there but this has been my experience in working strictly residential.

You can focus on the good or you can focus on the bad... there is no doubt in my mind that both types of GC's are out there.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

What's the difference between a GC and Liberace?



Liberace would lube you up first.


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## Mr Bruno (Sep 30, 2011)

In OR all you have to do is pay the money and take an open book test that consist mainly of lein and insurance requirements. If you pass--I think it was a 3 hour test, that I completed in about 40 minutes--you are a GC. Then if you have a valid OR journeyman card, you pay more money to a different state agency to get your plumbing contractor license.


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