# This made 4 hours of ot last night



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

This is 1" sched. 80 pvc feeding r/o water to a medical versuion of a dishwasher. The installing chimp had the union about 1" below the ceiling, then the ball valve. Someone overtightened the union distorting the o-ring. I shut off the r/o, drained it, then cut it apart, and repiped it. I had to wear tyvek, bouffant cap, and bootie covers. It sucked having to go out to the truck for tools, I had to take off all the gear, then gear back up. Pretty sweet, I left a job at 3:30, finishing my 8 hours. Drove to a supply house, picked up the material, drove to the hospital, did the work, waited 1 hour for the cement to set up, turned it back on, walked out at 7:05 and drove to our shop to leave on my boss' desk his hospital all-access badge and magic key, and left there about 7:20. 4 hours OT, yes!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

why not just change the Oring ?


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

I would of bought a sch 80 union and take the o ring. But that's just me though


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> why not just change the Oring ?


Because the hospital wanted to be able to isolate the equipment.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> Because the hospital wanted to be able to isolate the equipment.


Oh .. I guess the new O ring wouldn't allow you to do that or was there no valve there already ?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

jc-htownplumber said:


> I would of bought a sch 80 union and take the o ring. But that's just me though


You would have never worked at that facility again. That's the type of shoddy hackmanship that got the plumbing shop that did the original piping booted. 
If your customers are okay with that, I guess I am okay with it.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Oh .. I guess the new O ring wouldn't allow you to do that or was there no valve there already ?


 Did you read the post? I said the union was tight to the ceiling, then the valve. There were 2 couplings already installed in the riser off the machine, because of the chimpitude of the installing plumber.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> You would have never worked at that facility again. That's the type of shoddy hackmanship that got the plumbing shop that did the original piping booted.
> If your customers are okay with that, I guess I am okay with it.


How would you get the boot for getting them up and running ????

Maybe get them up and running and schedule a repipe at a later date with no OT ...

But that is just me and the other guy that thinks this way ...

I can see if I had all the free time in the world I would milk it ..but we have no free time


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

jc-htownplumber said:


> I would of bought a sch 80 union and take the o ring. But that's just me though


I would of just change it out like 442 did:yes: Why even bother messing around with someone else's plumbing



422 plumber said:


> You would have never worked at that facility again. That's the type of shoddy hackmanship that got the plumbing shop that did the original piping booted.
> If your customers are okay with that, I guess I am okay with it.


 
Your right:yes: I could just see it now, you replace the o-ring, then a day later the damn fitting starts to leak again


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> How would you get the boot for getting them up and running ????
> 
> Maybe get them up and running and schedule a repipe at a later date with no OT ...
> 
> ...


Because they had surgeries going on and wanted to wash instruments, whatever. I don't understand what you have against giving the customer a good job. To replace the o-ring you need to shut the system and drain it down, there own maintenance guys tried and failed, so they called us and asked us to do it right. If your customers are okay with a hackjob, I am okay with it, but our customers want proper repairs.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> Because they had surgeries going on and wanted to wash instruments, whatever. I don't understand what you have against giving the customer a good job. To replace the o-ring you need to shut the system and drain it down, there own maintenance guys tried and failed, so they called us and asked us to do it right. If your customers are okay with a hackjob, I am okay with it, but our customers want proper repairs.


Come on ... LOL

You said the O ring was the problem ... To change the o ring is not a hack job... 

I am not riding your azz .. Not Trying to get you in defensive mode ... 

If the reAl problem was the o ring in all reality it could have been changed unless the union was inside the ceiling ... 

Hey if the customer doesn't care ... Neither do I ... Repipe the whole building if they agree to it ...

Just saying you could have spent less time .. But it's fine ... I send my guys to many jobs and literally tell them to spend as much as time as possible on the job..... It's okay 

It all depends on the site you are on .... I would have had you repipe it from the water meter all the way up to that unit


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Come on ... LOL
> 
> You said the O ring was the problem ... To change the o ring is not a hack job...
> 
> ...


How do you know I could have spent less time? I had 1 hour driving from my first job to the supply house, then to the hospital. 1/2 hour to meet my boss and get suited up and have him show me the job, 1/2 hour to drain, 1/2 hour to cut out and repipe, 1 hour to wait for the cement to dry and about 15 minutes drive back to our shop. You would have shaved how much time where?


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Come on ... LOL
> 
> You said the O ring was the problem ... To change the o ring is not a hack job...
> 
> ...


OS, you're kind of enjoying your new hobby of masquerading as a highway robber, aren't you? :yes::laughing:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

SewerRat said:


> OS, you're kind of enjoying your new hobby of masquerading as a highway robber, aren't you? :yes::laughing:


What ... LOL

I do have several accounts where I tell the boys to actually fuk the dogs ... I actually built my house on one of those accounts


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> How do you know I could have spent less time? I had 1 hour driving from my first job to the supply house, then to the hospital. 1/2 hour to meet my boss and get suited up and have him show me the job, 1/2 hour to drain, 1/2 hour to cut out and repipe, 1 hour to wait for the cement to dry and about 15 minutes drive back to our shop. You would have shaved how much time where?


LOL .. Again I say it's fine ...

Not saying you screwed the pooch ... You did what you were asked to do..... As long as there is profit all is good


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

What OS is saying, is he would have been done in half the time and charged a little more than double what you did... :jester:


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> What ... LOL
> 
> I do have several accounts where I tell the boys to actually fuk the dogs ... I actually built my house on one of those accounts


You sound like a plumber friend of mine here. He has those Lufkin 6 in 1 screwdrivers printed with his company name and hands them out. I asked him one day why he did it vs magnets etc. and he said "We just wanna make sure people know they're getting screwed! "


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

SewerRat said:


> You sound like a plumber friend of mine here. He has those Lufkin 6 in 1 screwdrivers printed with his company name and hands them out. I asked him one day why he did it vs magnets etc. and he said "We just wanna make sure people know they're getting screwed! "


Yes ... You get a better reaction if they know it's coming than catching them by surprise ..


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

U666A said:


> What OS is saying, is he would have been done in half the time and charged a little more than double what you did... :jester:


You got that right .. I would have charged the same for the same amount of time .. And had him on another job .. I like charging 16 hours out for 8 hours of work


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> You got that right .. I would have charged the same for the same amount of time .. And had him on another job .. I like charging 16 hours out for 8 hours of work


I doubt it. It was a secure area, you had to have a badge to get thru the cardreader doors into the sterile areas. They know who is where at what time.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> I doubt it. It was a secure area, you had to have a badge to get thru the cardreader doors into the sterile areas. They know who is where at what time.


There is lots of places we sign in ... And out ...

That does not mean this is the time we charge .. There is always start up cost ... As a biz owner I do get around that no problem ...

It doesn't matter what time you signed in and out ... There is travel and set up time and return trip charge ..

You did good for your employer ..


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

See that's where u screw up. I don't charge travel time and set up time. It is part of the job. I miss all kinds of opportunity


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## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

Plumberman911 said:


> See that's where u screw up. I don't charge travel time and set up time. It is part of the job. I miss all kinds of opportunity


nor do i, however.. if im working in a highrise and it takes me 1/2 hour just to get in the building (security) and 15 more minutes to get to the unit (contacting owner of said unit) just to see the faucet i need to replace. you can bet i am charging an extra 100 -150 bucks or so :thumbup:


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

antiCon said:


> nor do i, however.. if im working in a highrise and it takes me 1/2 hour just to get in the building (security) and 15 more minutes to get to the unit (contacting owner of said unit) just to see the faucet i need to replace. you can bet i am charging an extra 100 -150 bucks or so :thumbup:


Funny how people who live in those types of buildings often have large
"sticker shock" reactions when you give a price. Your truck would never
fit in the parking garage, so you're parked three blocks away (and were
lucky to find that one). Their door is 30 yards from the freight elevator
that's being used by two moving companies that same day. The water
can only be shut off by the building management company and Carlos
is on vacation...
Come to think of it, my hands start to tremble any time the dispatch
has a unit # 
As much as I hate to clean drains, I'd gladly do nothing else for a whole
day, for the promise of no condo, apts & high rise bookings during the week. :laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

BigDave said:


> Funny how people who live in those types of buildings often have large
> "sticker shock" reactions when you give a price. Your truck would never
> fit in the parking garage, so you're parked three blocks away (and were
> lucky to find that one). Their door is 30 yards from the freight elevator
> ...


 






Very true. You're sharing an elevator with other trades that day in the high-rise condo and don't forget that if someone is moving that same day, the movers like to hold the elevator while they load it up.....that happened to me once. The resident elevator was out of service, so the residents were using the freight elevator and some one was moving out that day, so the movers were using the same elevator too.........:furious:....and all the locked doors in those buildings also; I really hate condo work. Everything takes twice as long.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

I don't get it :no: You said yourself the O-ring was distorted so why the need to cut out the piping? Install a new o-ring with a compatable lubricant. Thats not a hack job. Do you throw away a garden hose every time the washer wears out? Throw the water closet out because the wax ring failed? :laughing: Tear out the wall and replace the shower/tub valve because it needs an o-ring? :laughing: Justify it Brother.......Amen. :whistling2:


Just sayin'......replacing just the washer/o-ring/seal does not make one a hack. :thumbsup:


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

I'm pretty sure 422 didn't just cut up piping and rearrange fittings for no reason. Could it be that he's saying the o-ring couldn't be changed without shutting down and draining the entire RO system because the valve was on the fixture side of the union? Just a wild guess, but the hospital probably wanted the ability to shut the ball valve and disconnect the union, change an o-ring, service the equipment, move it out and move a new piece in, etc without shutting the entire system off? Redoing the order of the piping to put the ball valve on the supply side of the union seems to me like it would make absolute sense since the system was already shut down and drained. If I was paying the bill I would have wanted it done right. Next time the o-ring fails (hopefully never) it will be a 5 minute job which can be accomplished without consequence to the rest of the facility, if I understand what he's saying.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it's a little out of the scope of my sewer / septic / drain work.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I should have said it this way, the hospital maintenance said it was the o-ring. It could have been that, it could have been the nut was cracked. My boss told me what to do and I did it. I don't see why so many plumbers don't what to do a good job and make some money. The customer wanted it piped correctly, and I did it. Besides, where is the replacement o-ring? We didn't know the brand, it had to be drained down anyway, what if I replaced the o-ring, filled the system and it was the nut? I have never seen a post where so many plumbers bust balls for a job well done.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> How would you get the boot for getting them up and running ????
> 
> Maybe get them up and running and schedule a repipe at a later date with no OT ...
> 
> ...



This from the guy that charges ^^^^^^^ 350 for a 30 minute job LOL


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

justme said:


> This from the guy that charges ^^^^^^^ 350 for a 30 minute job LOL


Hey I didn't say the bill would be low ...


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

My only question is why have a union valve with a union below it? What if the O ring fails on the union before the valve. Not knocking your work by any means just doesn't make sense to me!


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

To call a plumber a hack, because he thought outside the box is uncalled for. There are times we plumbers have to do things we know are just a bandaid repair till we can do it right. I have had to do the rubber and clamp on water lines because we couldnt shut the restaurant down to do a 3 hr job. Service is not new construction where we have things open to see whats going on. 

That said im sure you did what you were told to do and thats cool too. But dont call a fellow plumber a hack because he thought differently. Oh... and yes i have worked at places where you have to suit up.. Maybe you heard of it...its called Intel


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

Like others have said though If it was the o ring you were worried about why install another a union valve. I would still consider changing the o ring first. I don't believe that makes me a hack that's a repair. I the customer wants it rebuilt all new then that's what I will do. If they wanted repaired that's what I'll do. We try to repair first and not sell them something new


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I installed a union ball valve because that's all the supply house had on their shelf. I wish people would read the post. The customer wanted the ball valve first. I also should have stated that the hospital maintenance said it was the o- ring, they had already tried to lube it and retighten and failed. It might have been a cracked nut, who knows? The customer didn't want another failed attempt. They were willing to pay us on overtime to make a proper repair. Why do all these plumbers insist on saying the best repair was to try and put a different o-ring in? Where do I get the correct o-ring? Then the customer still can't isolate the equipment. During the day, the room is busy with surgical equipment being decontaminated, so it doesn't do any good to slap a bandaid on and come back later.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Can you imagine the lashing you would be getting had you only changed the o-ring! Lol

Looks good to me bro.


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

I think if you would of posted a pic of the original work vs what you did all this this wouldn't of happened


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Or if everyone would have read the post they would have understood what the thread was about, as opposed to saying I should have just installed a new o-ring.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> Or if everyone would have read the post they would have understood what the thread was about, as opposed to saying I should have just installed a new o-ring.


 
Reading is over rated, now arguing for hours on end, that is fun de mental.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

*picture of original arrangement*

I cut this out. You can see I cut it right at the hub of the union. There was about 1/2" below the ceiling. I had to grab the end with a pair of channellocks, pull it down, grab it up a little higher with another pair of channellocks to pull it below the ceiling and keep the drop from pushing back above the ceiling. If I was thinking, I would have cut out the ball valve and glued it into the coupling, then glued the union onto the the other sub, then 90'ed over to the equipment riser.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

422 plumber said:


> I cut this out. You can see I cut it right at the hub of the union. There was about 1/2" below the ceiling. I had to grab the end with a pair of channellocks, pull it down, grab it up a little higher with another pair of channellocks to pull it below the ceiling and keep the drop from pushing back above the ceiling. If I was thinking, I would have cut out the ball valve and glued it into the coupling, then glued the union onto the the other sub, then 90'ed over to the equipment riser.


 
I read your post and you did a good job.
.

I think OS is just pulling your chain......


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> I read your post and you did a good job.
> .
> 
> I think OS is just pulling your chain......


Hey ... I never said he did a bad job ...

Just asked a simple question ... Why didn't he change the O ring if that was the problem ...

And it just blew up from there ..

Next time... When some one just changes a piece I will ask why didn't they repipe everything just to even out the universe ...


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Hey ... I never said he did a bad job ...
> 
> Just asked a simple question ... Why didn't he change the O ring if that was the problem ...
> 
> ...


For the last time, I couldn't change out the o-ring without draining down the whole system, the customer wanted the valve in front of the union, so, I took the opportunity to do it. I also didn't know what brand it was, and what size o-ring it needed, so there.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> For the last time, I couldn't change out the o-ring without draining down the whole system, the customer wanted the valve in front of the union, so, I took the opportunity to do it. I also didn't know what brand it was, and what size o-ring it needed, so there.


LMAO...

Dam ... I never said you did anything wrong ..

So stop defending what was done .. You did nothing wrong ..

A simple question ... A mole of a question actually and all of a sudden it snow balled to a mountain ..


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

You did a great job on what you did. I dont have any problem with what and how you did it. I just take offence to you calling a fellow plumber a hack for thinking outside the box and suggesting the oring change. Trust me i know how things can be and how you have to play the game at some places. 

Good job on what you did!! its clean and no glue runs and you got it back up and running.


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

Work looks good but I have to ask , when you went to the supplier to get the new ball valve did you ask them if they had any o rings for the union ?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

It was all on will call. I don't have any schedule 80 PVC on my truck. I want to have more truck stock, and more stuff in our conex, but my immediate boss and the owner won't let me spend any money on stock. All I have on the truck and in the conex are leftovers from bid jobs.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I hope they flush that pipe out real good before they sterilize any surgical equipment, with the glue inside it and all. 

Some doctor won't be able to figure out why his incisions keep closing up.....


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

If you would have read the original post, you would have not made your comment. That R/O line feeds a medical version of a dish washer. It is in the decontamination room. Instruments are washed in this then they go to the sterilizer.


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