# Changing from new construction plumbing to service work



## Ricktheplumber (Oct 3, 2009)

Hi all! My name is Rick and I am a Master plumber and own a family plumbing company. Just joined the site and I guess I am looking for a little insight on changing my business from one end of the spectrum to the other. I have been plumbing for over 20 years. When I started, it was my fathers business and he was doing 95% new construction so that is where I jumped in and carried it on since then. Things have always been pretty good so most of our calls for service work were passed on to other plumbers. Well now, with the housing market and the economy in the crapper (no pun intended) I have had 2 builders recently go belly up and l, my family and our business were hung out to dry as they owed a good amount of money between them (we are trying to recoup through legal action but that is a whole different story!). I have always done side work where I can fit it in and that is the only thing that has me keeping my head above water now. 

Since, my wife and I have made a huge campaign; advertising our company as a service plumbing company. People have seen our trucks in the neighborhood for years now so I guess they know we are not fly by night (even though are trucks said "specializing in new home construction"). Things are starting to pick up which is good but we are having a very hard time with pricing. I would like to be comparible to other plumbers out there, somewhere right in the middle of the highs and lows. I am just trying to figure out how to go about setting my prices?? Short of calling other neighborhood plumbers....where do I start? I would love to have a book that has standard jobs and very good ball park pricing for those jobs. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*I did the same thing back in 95*

I am sorry to hear about your troubles, 
my german dutch father lost his ass at least 4 times 
that I can recall literally kissing builders butts over the years..
on a handshake only.......takeing them at their word.....
once for over 145k, once for 55k, another time for over 30, and another for 15., 
never filed a lein, never tried to get a nickle back out of them.... 


I think every time he went into a wood framed building ,
he thought he was going into a gambling casino and this 
time he was gonna beat the house...... 

Eventually , I got this headache handed to me too, 
but I got so fed up with a-hole builders that we went 
cold turkey back in 95,, 

honestly through a little trial and error
it only took me a short while to find the "cash cow"
 that has kept me going ever since....

I will pm you how I found my "cash cow"




.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

You need to use the search function on this site. There is alot of good advice ripe for the picking.

I feel for ya, we made the same chaange, but have changes again to work on larger commercial and institutional work.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*what to charge????*

what to charge???? well you need to read ellen rohr's "how much should i charge?". www.barebonesbiz.com. also go to www.pmmag.com search frank blau. we all charge different amounts. we are all in different markets. you need to make more than you spend. these folks will explain that. what i charge is irrelevant to you. we have different overhead. i like ellen's books. :rockon:


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Welcome to the Zone Rick! 

Like UAPlumber said, search the forum. There is a lot of good info on here. It might be hard to make the change at first but stick with it. Construction and service are two completely different animals IMHO.

Ellen Rohrs book is a great book on pricing and it is a quick one hour read. It is good for the basics and there are plenty more books out there that dive into pricing a little more.

Just post questions as they come up and you will get replies. There is a real good bunch of guys and gals on the forum.

Good luck.


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

to your old customers explain what has happened to the construction business tell them your into service now ____ then learn your nick?? look up THE CLEANER magazine( if you dont like that side of plumbing cull it ) do what you like and talk to your old customers tell them you want to keep up what your dads installed ask them about their needs, look for repeat customers ,groups , treat folks right and your name and reputation will get you started ,then YOU must keep it going !!!!! read, read, read ,study the new trends, believe me plumbing has changed , treat the other fellow like you want to be treated


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Call the other guys in your area . Invite them to lunch ( & PICK UP THE TAB ! ) 

" Folks , we are getting into service and want to make sure we are not screwing ourselves OR you . Would like to sit down and go over pricing so we can make sure no one is hosed "

We've done it a few times and it works real well !! 

Also ADVERTISE HEAVY in the neighborhoods you WANT to be in . Pick a radius from your shop and try to stay there . More time in the truck , less billable time .

Good luck and WELCOME !!

Cal


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> I am sorry to hear about your troubles,
> my german dutch father lost his ass at least 4 times
> that I can recall literally kissing builders butts over the years..
> on a handshake only.......takeing them at their word.....
> ...


 Send me that pm :laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Cal said:


> Call the other guys in your area . Invite them to lunch ( & PICK UP THE TAB ! )
> 
> " Folks , we are getting into service and want to make sure we are not screwing ourselves OR you . Would like to sit down and go over pricing so we can make sure no one is hosed "
> 
> ...


 I get paid for all the time in my van except the ride home in the afternoon. I charge travel time. If someone called me and asked me to lunch to discuss pricing of their new service business I'D LAUGH IN THEIR FACE AND HANGUP.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I get paid for all the time in my van except the ride home in the afternoon. I charge travel time. If someone called me and asked me to lunch to discuss pricing of their new service business I'D LAUGH IN THEIR FACE AND HANGUP.


I would call them several choice words, laugh in their face, and then hang up!


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Don't forget the entire price fixing issue.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*if you are serious...about the cash cow???.*



Bollinger plumber said:


> Send me that pm :laughing:


 
I dont know wether you are serious or just fooling with me.

you have seen it all here before, 
but if you want it sent to you


all my trials and errors and time spent searching high and low
for that cash cow..... ,

just let me know.....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*you have to find your own way or ask here.....*



RJ Pascone said:


> I would call them several choice words, laugh in their face, and then hang up!


no one is going to tell you how to take away 
their work away from them....
\
they would look at you as though you were some sort of dumbass. to even ask...

but on this site it is ok..

the only reason *plumber people* are freindly here and actually talk to each other on this site is simply becasue we are not all going to the same supply house every morning trying to grab and fight over the last doughnut sitting by the coffe machine....:thumbup:........

we are hundreds of miles away from each other and its not like cutting your own throat to talk to a competitor...


I am beginning to think I should write a book.........:laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> no one is going to tell you how to take away
> their work away from them....
> \
> they would look at you as though you were some sort of dumbass. to even ask...
> ...


 I work in an area that is serviced by 8 to 10 reputable companies. Naturally there are a dozen more unlicensed and two dozen more unreputable. 4 or 5 of us have gotten to know each other over the years, and work together to help each other. Great bunch of guys. 
I recently cut my hand, and severed 2 tendons, with a ditch open into a house, and t'storms on the way. 1 phone call, and within a 1/2 hr. 2 plumbers (from different compaines) were on my job and finished it, One wouldn't take a dime, the other charged me his cost. They dropped everything else they were doing. Course when they call me, I'm right there for them. I guess I'm lucky to know such a good group of guys.
Be cordial to your fellow plumber( at the supply house, etc). Develop a relationship. ( it wont happen overnight). Attend seminars and counter days, join an association of master plumbers. If you are on a level playing field, and are fair with your rates, you will have work. Others will be more apt to share info. Sure it stings when I see a "competitors" truck at a job that I bid, but I am sure the same thing happens to them when I stroll out of one of their former customers homes.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*we call one another all the time here too*



RJ Pascone said:


> I work in an area that is serviced by 8 to 10 reputable companies. Naturally there are a dozen more unlicensed and two dozen more unreputable. 4 or 5 of us have gotten to know each other over the years, and work together to help each other. Great bunch of guys.
> 
> we do about the same here , but they are more stand-off-ish than I care for...
> 
> ...


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

We do all that. I was just afraid to say it. We don't discuss price. My price is my price. Period. We do occassionally discuss business. A couple of us belong to the State League of Master Plumbers, and attend the monthly meetings. Also, the local Small Business Association. Thats what businessman do. (I wish I reallly was one)

If you need to know how to run a business, check with your local community college. There are courses for it!


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Well , Well ,, Guess you boys know EVERYTHING !! ?? It does work to get together and DISCUSS things with other plumbers . I'm NOT saying price fixing ,, just comparison stuff .

It works real well when you find a way to PUT YOUR EGO ON THE SHELF ! Anyway ,,, best of luck to you Rick ,,, hope it works well and quickly !!

Cal


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## Ricktheplumber (Oct 3, 2009)

Thanks all for the suggestions and info. Unfortunately, it is pretty cut throat around here as it probably is just about everywhere now adays (there probably is already someone working in my grave at the builder sites that owe me money; some sucker thinking he's going to get paid). I don't think that the going to luch thing would fly with the businesses I know around here. As far as pricing goes I am not really looking for "Your" prices I am looking for the way people originally came up with their prices and knowing you did it competitively. 
To "TheMaster"......"I get paid for all the time in my van except the ride home in the afternoon. I charge travel time". Do your customers know this or is that something you work into your price and the customer only sees the total price? Because we already advertise free estimates (quotes)... as do 90% of the listed plumbers in our area.
*Again, guys....thanks. This is my new path...no turning back!*


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ricktheplumber said:


> Thanks all for the suggestions and info. Unfortunately, it is pretty cut throat around here as it probably is just about everywhere now adays (there probably is already someone working in my grave at the builder sites that owe me money; some sucker thinking he's going to get paid). I don't think that the going to luch thing would fly with the businesses I know around here. As far as pricing goes I am not really looking for "Your" prices I am looking for the way people originally came up with their prices and knowing you did it competitively.
> To "TheMaster"......"I get paid for all the time in my van except the ride home in the afternoon. I charge travel time". Do your customers know this or is that something you work into your price and the customer only sees the total price? Because we already advertise free estimates (quotes)... as do 90% of the listed plumbers in our area.
> *Again, guys....thanks. This is my new path...no turning back!*


The travel time is not listed out seperately. Its charged t the same rate as labor.Example: 15 min travel+1.5 hrs of plumbing+15 min cleanup/invoice prep= 2 hrs total time charged. At the bottom of my ticket I list out a labor price only...no time is listed. GPS units keep up with travel/time very well. I usually call the customer when I'm on the way to their house also. I dont give estimates on general repairs like toilets,faucets,etc...just a general price of what it usually is with the understanding that i charge by the hour and my time spent including travel to their house is xx per hour and materials are itemized based on what i used.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ricktheplumber said:


> Hi all! My name is Rick and I am a Master plumber and own a family plumbing company. Just joined the site and I guess I am looking for a little insight on changing my business from one end of the spectrum to the other. I have been plumbing for over 20 years. When I started, it was my fathers business and he was doing 95% new construction so that is where I jumped in and carried it on since then. Things have always been pretty good so most of our calls for service work were passed on to other plumbers. Well now, with the housing market and the economy in the crapper (no pun intended) I have had 2 builders recently go belly up and l, my family and our business were hung out to dry as they owed a good amount of money between them (we are trying to recoup through legal action but that is a whole different story!). I have always done side work where I can fit it in and that is the only thing that has me keeping my head above water now.
> 
> Since, my wife and I have made a huge campaign; advertising our company as a service plumbing company. People have seen our trucks in the neighborhood for years now so I guess they know we are not fly by night (even though are trucks said "specializing in new home construction"). Things are starting to pick up which is good but we are having a very hard time with pricing. I would like to be comparible to other plumbers out there, somewhere right in the middle of the highs and lows. I am just trying to figure out how to go about setting my prices?? Short of calling other neighborhood plumbers....where do I start? I would love to have a book that has standard jobs and very good ball park pricing for those jobs. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


 I switched from 75% new work to 25%. I didnt look to see what kind of marketplace you are in so cut throat may not matter. Its been proven you can charge more than the market with good systems and procedures.
If your market can sustain it a flatrate is the best system. 
1.Take the 25 most common service tasks you do and after you calculate what your cost of doing business is, assign a price. Expand and get to 100 or 200 tasks.
2. try not to be like the other plumbers. Stand out out in image and service---the extra mile etc. Bring in the newspaper, pick up trash in yard or whatever random act of kindness you can think of thats in stride.
3.Add value to your service that will stick in peoples minds . DONT try to rush out to beat a 1st hour minimum for the sake of thinking you are making extra. Give more to the customer. You are breaking in. People are looking for something better more than cheaper.
Nobody cares if a plumber has a great opinion of himself and his plumbing ability..they care about your good nature, politeness and ability to communicate. Ultimately you have to fix things but when breaking in, a constant extra effort is a good thing.


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> no one is going to tell you how to take away
> their work away from them....
> \
> they would look at you as though you were some sort of dumbass. to even ask...
> ...


 
*" You write the book, I'll make the movie." I've got a good script for a plumbing sitcom from alot of stuff on this forum.*


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*you got a good idea*



para1 said:


> *" You write the book, I'll make the movie." I've got a good script for a plumbing sitcom from alot of stuff on this forum.*


 
you got a good idea there...

something like Andy Griffith show

you got ....goober, floyd, gomer, 
 Otis the drunk, barney ,,,, Earnest T Bass....

the Darling clan, 

I have had something similar to most of them working for me over the years


Name the show "as the butt crack turns":laughing::laughing:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

This post reminds me of something I read when we started our business - DIVERSIFY.

Our first year, we tracked everything and noticed one account made up 22% of our total volume. We made a concerted effort to get this down to 10%. It's a good thing we did because this Property Manager ended up hiring their own plumbing staff. At the 22% slice of the pie, it would have been a huge hit.


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## Ashleymc (Nov 14, 2009)

Well said "still around" about dealing with new customers,which in many cases are someone elses cast offs..But to the customers I want to go back to I say right before leaving and AFTER getting paid! " Thanks,I appreciate your business"


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