# This is an S-Trap & This a P-Trap



## Redwood

jnohs said:


> Please explian how any trap that is not vented is not an s trap. View it in your head... or can't you..if it is wet vented its not and s trap.... if it is vented correctly then the vent will be positioned before the siphone is created and no problem... straps are not allowed because of siphoning, which is what the vent prevents....so yes any trap not vented acts and performs exactly like an s trap.


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## Redwood

This is an unvented P-Trap...


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## Redwood

And this is an S-Trap...


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## Redwood

Kapeesh?


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## chonkie

Redwood said:


> And this is an S-Trap...


Don't really know why ... but the two fernco's on the straight stub up from the s-trap has me cracking up ... could be the lack of sleep.


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## plumbdrum

Your wrong red, it's an un vented S trap that's wet vented, don't you know anything.


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## OpenSights

chonkie said:


> Don't really know why ... but the two fernco's on the straight stub up from the s-trap has me cracking up ... could be the lack of sleep.


Sump pump check valve. I see it all the time on laundry stacks on highwalls. HO engineering.


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## Redwood

plumbdrum said:


> Your wrong red, it's an un vented S trap that's wet vented, don't you know anything.


Nope! :laughing:

I've never seen a wet vented s-trap...


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## woberkrom

How about a combined waste and vent?


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## jnohs

The 2 ferncos on the vertical is a check valve... guess you never put one in... and if you could eventually wrap your head around this you would see that if you eliminate the vent from your properly vented p trap it will become an s trap. Unless it confirms to wet venting code...


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## jnohs

And I have stated multiple times that everyone here is correct the s trap needs a vent to b a p trap. And if I wanted to wet vent it it would have needed to enter from the side of the drain. But as a pumped discharge it needs to enter from the top of the drain eliminating any hope for a wet vent....


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## jnohs

Also in your picture of the s trap add a vent in a correct position to avoid siphoning and it will look act and b a p trap....


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## jnohs

That's because you can't wet vent an s trap....dingus...physically impossiable... but if you do not vent a p trap properly it will look and act like an s trap.


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## seank89

plumbdrum said:


> Your wrong red, it's an un vented S trap that's wet vented, don't you know anything.


Haha you gotta love plumbing humor. :thumbup:


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## Redwood

jnohs said:


> The 2 ferncos on the vertical is a check valve... guess you never put one in...


No I haven't...

I try to install laundry standpipes properly so that a check valve isn't needed, like in the case of short standpipes and suds overflows...


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## plumbdrum

I didn't realize you can wet vent off off the main building drain. That's a new code I must have missed at continuing education.


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## PLUMB TIME

All I want for Christmas is RJPHD.............


If you hum it,it actually works.:laughing:


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## Redwood

The downward turn before a vent makes the s trap...

I'm not even trying to cure his venting concepts yet...


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## Redwood

woberkrom said:


> How about a combined waste and vent?


The Combined Waste & Vent cannot be used for washing machines and other high flow drains...



> 912.1 Type of fixtures. A combination drain and
> vent system shall not serve fixtures other than floor
> drains, sinks, lavatories and drinking fountains.
> Combination drain and vent systems shall not receive
> the discharge from a food waste grinder or clinical
> sink.


The oversized drain and low flow allows venting...


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## Redwood

jnohs said:


> Also in your picture of the s trap add a vent in a correct position to avoid siphoning and it will look act and b a p trap....


The picture is yours not mine!
It is in the Google account linked on your company website of your work...

If you were to place a went between the p-trap and the downward elbow it would be, look, and act, like a crown vented p-trap...



jnohs said:


> That's because you can't wet vent an s trap....dingus...physically impossiable... but if you do not vent a p trap properly it will look and act like an s trap.


You are correct an s-trap cannot be vented...

The p-trap will not be a s-trap until it makes a downward turn without a vent. then it becomes an s-trap...

Kapeesh?


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## jnohs

Yah no kidding.. we are arguing the same point.. I was previously mentioning the picture u drew up....


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## jnohs

Any p trap not direct vented or wet vented acts and behaves like an s to trap..which means it will get siphoned out...


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## plumbdrum

That's a new vent, direct vent, we are talking plumbing right?


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## plumbdrum

jnohs said:


> Any p trap not direct vented or wet vented acts and behaves like an s to trap..which means it will get siphoned out...


 You forgot a couple vents. Common, individual, bow/loop, battery. Although under your philosophy they will siphon.


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## Redwood

jnohs said:


> direct vented


Hold on Cowboy!

We aren't ready to talk water heaters yet...


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## Tommy plumber

Redwood said:


> This is an unvented P-Trap...











Not necessarily. Depends on how far away the point of vent is.


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## Redwood

Tommy plumber said:


> Not necessarily. Depends on how far away the point of vent is.


You'll need a 30' Fat Max to reach it...
Is it vented?:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber

Redwood said:


> You'll need a 30' Fat Max to reach it...
> Is it vented?:laughing:














Then in that case, no. It is not vented.


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## moonapprentice

In my code, any indirect or local waste over 30" in length requires a trap. With that being said they do not require a vent being indirect or local. You are saying this would be an S-trap?? .... as the pipe would turn vertically downward after the outlet of the trap I wouldn't consider it an s-trap. To my knowledge an s-trap is when an upside down dip is in place of the crown of a p-trap. Basically after the crown if there is a horizontal arm connecting to the crown it's a p trap, vented or not


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## Redwood

moonapprentice said:


> In my code


What code are you under?

802.2 IPC?


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## moonapprentice

Wisconsin plumbing code


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## plumbdrum

Just fix your s traps like this


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## Jenkins72

Never mind the s traps.... This fellow needs to learn what the hell a wet vent is haha.


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## Jenkins72

I bet he direct vents his wet vents right out the side of the house like a good plumber should


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## Redwood

moonapprentice said:


> Wisconsin plumbing code


Ohhhh... That is an interesting code from what little I know of it...

Stuff like trapping lav sinks under the floor and all kinds of weird things...


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## plumbdrum

Redwood said:


> Ohhhh... That is an interesting code from what little I know of it... Stuff like trapping lav sinks under the floor and all kinds of weird things...


That code has a lot of holes in it, kinda like the cheese there.


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## Redwood

plumbdrum said:


> That code has a lot of holes in it, kinda like the cheese there.


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## SchmitzPlumbing

plumbdrum said:


> That code has a lot of holes in it, kinda like the cheese there.


our code is good and our cheese is great. they dont make a lot of swiss cheese here by the way. :whistling2:


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## plumbdrum

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> our code is good and our cheese is great. they dont make a lot of swiss cheese here by the way. :whistling2:


It's all good, I've always read you guys have a decent code, but the comment is still funny


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## SchmitzPlumbing

plumbdrum said:


> It's all good, I've always read you guys have a decent code, but the comment is still funny


i agree. my family owns Hennings Cheese. its won national and international competitions. it is in your local stores. as for the wisconsin codes, we do what our code tells us to. i hope eventually, its a national code and i can work 3 hours north or 3 hours south. why should a state line change what we do?


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## Redwood

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i agree. my family owns Hennings Cheese. its won national and international competitions. it is in your local stores.


Thanks for the tip...
I'll keep an eye out for it and give it a try...

I'm a big time cheese head even though I don't live in Wisconsin and am not a Packers fan...

As a matter of fact one of my favorite burger joints has a very special cheeseburger that uses Wisconsin Cheese that extends over the top of the burger and gets burned/crisped on the griddle...

It does something awesome to the cheese...


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## ace4548

That burger looks delicious .. I live here n Wisconsin too, and Henning is good. I have done most of my apprenticeship in Plymouth Wisconsin AKA cheese capital of the world lol.. Worked at Satori cheese which makes some really good specialty cheeses, a little work at Sargento, and most at Bordens which, unfortunately just closed down. They had a store inside of the factory, on Fridays they would open it for a cpl hours and you would get cheese for around 80% off... I would buy $10 worth and have enough for a cpl months and give packages to my family lol


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## chonkie

That burger looks like a heart attack waiting to happen.

I'd still eat it though.


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## Redwood

chonkie said:


> That burger looks like a heart attack waiting to happen.
> 
> I'd still eat it though.


Nah...

I get mine with Lettuce, Tomato, Onions, & Pickles, so it is quite healthy...:laughing:


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## mtfallsmikey

Back to traps... No drawing to post, but didn't the old CABO code allow a combination tee/wye to be used in lieu of tees for the trap arm? Made for a vented S trap IMO.


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## Jenkins72

A tee wye for the lav arm does not make an s trap if that's what you mean


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## Absaroka Joe

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> ...why should a state line change what we do?



because building codes are written and enforced for someone's benefit. and the beneficiary is often not the property owner or public.


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## plumbdrum

Has jnhos left the bar yet??


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## Redwood

plumbdrum said:


> Has jnhos left the bar yet??


Jahno I donno...:laughing:

He'll be back in another year or 2...


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## dhal22

plumbdrum said:


> Has jnhos left the bar yet??


Oh to be a fly on the wall while he catches up on things here. Whatever happened to his claims that everyone's code violation claims were false?


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## Redwood

dhal22 said:


> Oh to be a fly on the wall while he catches up on things here. Whatever happened to his claims that everyone's code violation claims were false?


Bookmark this thread for his return...:laughing:


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## Debo22

Maybe he was banned, how do we find out?


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## Redwood

Debo22 said:


> Maybe he was banned, how do we find out?


Under the user name like where mine says "Certified Lunatic" and yours says "Member" or, "Senior Member" it changes to "Registered Member" when someone is permanently banned...

I don't believe it changes if there is a temporary ban...

Maybe a moderator will spill the beans on the qt... Or probably not...


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## chonkie

Redwood said:


> Under the user name like where mine says "Certified Lunatic"


I thought it said that for other reasons. Good to know the real reason.


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## plumbdrum

Redwood said:


> Under the user name like where mine says "Certified Lunatic" and yours says "Member" or, "Senior Member" it changes to "Registered Member" when someone is permanently banned... I don't believe it changes if there is a temporary ban... Maybe a moderator will spill the beans on the qt... Or probably not...



How does one change the name from senior member to certified lunatic?


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## Redwood

plumbdrum said:


> How does one change the name from senior member to certified lunatic?



The setting is somewhere in the user control panel, I found and did it years ago so I can't tell you exactly where it might be. But it's there somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## plumbdrum

Redwood said:


> The setting is somewhere in the user control panel, I found and did it years ago so I can't tell you exactly where it might be. But it's there somewhere.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Well if I find it I will take a survey from you fellas to come up with a name. This should be interesting to see what some of my "friends " will come up with.


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## Redwood

plumbdrum said:


> Well if I find it I will take a survey from you fellas to come up with a name.


Inspector Clouseau


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## dRyken

Redwood said:


> Kapeesh?


How about an "S-Trap Standard"? What are the requirements for installing them.


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## Redwood

dRyken said:


> How about an "S-Trap Standard"? What are the requirements for installing them.


International Plumbing Code Prohibited!


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## dRyken

Redwood said:


> International Plumbing Code Prohibited!


Well a "Standard S-trap" is different then a S-Trap and aren't really listed. As its a trap that forms the support for the fixture, made from Cast Iron and used in Mop sinks. Haven't seen or heard of one less then 3" but it is a legal form of S Trap.
Another trap that isn't really mentioned is a Bottle Trap or "Pencil trap" can only be installed in Laboratory sinks (As far as I no)


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## Redwood

dRyken said:


> Another trap that isn't really mentioned is a Bottle Trap or "Pencil trap" can only be installed in Laboratory sinks (As far as I no)


#4 prohibits internal partitions so your bottle traps are prohibited...

There is an exception for drum traps on chemical waste....

Of course this has no meaning for you because the IPC is not your code so you should make sure that you are talking to a plumber that works under the Canadian Code...


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