# Any reason why I can't do this?



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Cleanout installs....here's the idea. Excavate around the top of the pipe and expose it. Place a concrete box over the pipe and fill with crete leaving the top 1/3 of pipe exposed. Cut the exposed top portion out. Essentially this is a manhole. Irrigation supply house has a 24"x 12" concrete box for 76. 

Why won't this work?


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

If you have to ask, you already know the answer. That method is almost as labor intensive as cutting in a combo, so why not do it right and charge accordingly?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

It's easier to to rod a line through a clean out.The set up you're talking about would allow for cable slop. 

I don't think it'd be code approved without an engineers stamp. Quality would vary and would be subject to infiltration and inflow.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

When I did a project on an old plantation housing outside of Atlanta that is what they did. Here it's not just no, it's HELL NO.

Mark


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

In the old days before I got my license,
I used cut a hole in the pipe cut a u shape in a 4" peice of abs pipe stack on sewer then pack concrete around it to hold in place,

Then I learned better and started cutting in combo's the right and correct way per the upc code.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

But why is it a "no"? Europe, Asia and Australia already does this. Why aren't we?


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Like Chris Connor said, cable slop. It'll work fine for a jetter, but if another plumber were to be called out and need to run a cable, it may be more difficult. Also, because its not a typically approved method, lets say you start doing this then a year two or three down the road another owner and another problem in which another plumber is called, said plumber tells owner "well, this isn't an approved clean out...we need to fix this mess and make a proper repair"! even though it will most likely work fine, the stigma other plumbers would associate with it may give you a bad rep! 

Just look at all the stipulations many drain cleaning companies have...especially the $49-$99 dollar companies. They all explicitly state...this price is for one drain, through a code approved and line sized clean out located at ground level outside! They could easily argue that by removing only the top 1/3 of pipe that the width of the opening is not 4" and they would be right, it you were to remove the top third of the pipe it would only measure +-3". Manhole channels are designed to be open the full width of the line. Again, although it would probably work, it's an easy target for another plumber to say this is a joke and needs to be replaced. 

Just my .02 cents


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

So for some reason I can't stop thinking about what your trying to accomplish. I have an idea...mainly for flushing and access to debris? If I were to install something like this, I would prefab my own box with a fully open 4" channel (id probably keep the bottom half of the PVC intact just to allow a smooth flow of waste without the worry of leakage) and it would have PVC pipe stubouts "encased" in concrete. Essentially it would be a drop in one piece design connected with ferncos on each end, then brought up to grade with concrete boxes sealed with tar around the base of each one. Then the next issue i see would be air tight/liquid tight containment. A typical cast iron meter box or even sewer clean out box lid is not water/air tight so at a minimum it should be heavily caulked. 

But this would just be way too expensive for a typical house clean out. Even with your original design, if yur sewer line were 3-4' deep you'd have to use a couple of boxes, then if it were too high you would have to take a concrete cutter to it and trim it, or settle for just below grade if a few inches short...too much work


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> ...Why aren't we?


Why would you? It seems to be a lot of trouble for a lesser result.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

You guys suck.....I still think it's a great idea.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> You guys suck.....I still think it's a great idea.


Well if you try it and works out awesome...I will be the first person to tell ya I knew it was a great idea!:thumbsup:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Also consider that poor ******* running a curved leader that follows that makeshift opening,


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

It would work, it would be a pain in the a$$ though. I can already feel the irritation of trying to get my snake cable back out of the line.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> You guys suck.....I still think it's a great idea.


Everyone in the office is now wondering why I just randomly started laughing out loud. :laughing::thumbup::laughing::thumbup:


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

Can you send a photo of what your talking about


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

gear junkie said:


> But why is it a "no"? Europe, Asia and Australia already does this. Why aren't we?


 Europe has way better ways of doing plumbing than that , there are so many people in Asia I doubt there is even a code in some cities and Australia well everything is more relaxed in the outback mate.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

I think in a heavy rain, your gonna have mud in the line. Good or bad either way.


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

I would also think that could potentially be dangerous to jet


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

plungerboy said:


> Can you send a photo of what your talking about


http://youtu.be/tI8wfzroO94?t=5m48s


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

That's a United Kingdom handy jack special right there. Swamp gas everywhere buddy. Oooh but you could get those 1800s style sewer rods with the corkscrew on the end in there though.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Building that is way more involved than a two way clean out.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Heck ya Ben. You are 100% correct. I don;t care what the nay sayers say it is how it should be. especially for shallow drains like you have in your area. Heck I bet 20 years ago guys would have said how a 2 way clean out is against code and unneeded. I love it when a basement is backed up and I can pull the back water valve and do exactly what you are talking about. at that point it is a mimi manhole . I can camera or augure both ways and best of all I can pull debri out of the back water valve. I have seen the future and it isn;t with American plumbers


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

In the recent past I have priced out building a manole and unfortunatly a 2way clean out is less expensive.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Goll you guys are funny, sewer gas smell, water infiltration:laughing: you make it sound like a manhole is a new concept. dang They are code approved even inside only inside they must be sealed. I have sewage lift pits in atleast a 1/10 of the homes I go in and the world has not come crashing down.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Concrete cracks. Enough said.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

KoleckeINC said:


> Concrete cracks. Enough said.


 Holey maceral we better dig up all the concrete septic tanks in west mich. and we better fill in all the concrete manholes in all the city streets. son of a gun I better get rid of my basement and put my house on slab.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

KoleckeINC said:


> That's a United Kingdom handy jack special right there....


Also #1 in the UK....


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

saysflushable said:


> Goll you guys are funny, sewer gas smell, water infiltration:laughing: you make it sound like a manhole is a new concept. dang They are code approved even inside only inside they must be sealed. I have sewage lift pits in atleast a 1/10 of the homes I go in and the world has not come crashing down.


And your absolutely right! However, I think as far as quoting an install goes...a standard double clean out would be the most "profitable" And I use that term descriminately. If I were to charge $1000.00 for a standard double clean out lest say 3' deep. I can get that done in 1-1/2 hrs. So lets say off the tip of my head to build one like Ben posted, that's 4-6 hours. So I either charge $1000 for 4-6 hours, or $1000 for an hour and a half...the other alternative is $2000.00 for the manhole. 

It may be common where your from, but not out here. I'm not saying it won't work, nor that its against code. I will say however, that a lot of companies OUT HERE at the first sign of cable flop or what not would use it as an excuse to charge the customer to rip it out and replace with a "typical" double clean out. That's all. I for one probably would mind it if I encountered one as I could flush everything into it whether up or further down stream and clean out the crap with a shovel and bucket...seeing of course that I have a small undersized cart jetter that can't flush downstream worth a damm!


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> And your absolutely right! However, I think as far as quoting an install goes...a standard double clean out would be the most "profitable" And I use that term descriminately. If I were to charge $1000.00 for a standard double clean out lest say 3' deep. I can get that done in 1-1/2 hrs. So lets say off the tip of my head to build one like Ben posted, that's 4-6 hours. So I either charge $1000 for 4-6 hours, or $1000 for an hour and a half...the other alternative is $2000.00 for the manhole.
> 
> It may be common where your from, but not out here. I'm not saying it won't work, nor that its against code. I will say however, that a lot of companies OUT HERE at the first sign of cable flop or what not would use it as an excuse to charge the customer to rip it out and replace with a "typical" double clean out. That's all. I for one probably would mind it if I encountered one as I could flush everything into it whether up or further down stream and clean out the crap with a shovel and bucket...seeing of course that I have a small undersized cart jetter that can't flush downstream worth a damm!


 phew finally a sensible argument not based on fear of something different. 

I think for shallow sewers I could have a manhole built just as fast or faster than installing a couple cleanouts. ofcoarse what I think I can do and what I can do are two different things. my many unprofitable bids are proof of that:laughing:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

saysflushable said:


> Holey maceral we better dig up all the concrete septic tanks in west mich. and we better fill in all the concrete manholes in all the city streets. son of a gun I better get rid of my basement and put my house on slab.


Slab cracks


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Slab cracks


 Of coarse it does. so does PVC.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Slab cracks


 duplicate post


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

saysflushable said:


> Holey maceral we better dig up all the concrete septic tanks in west mich. and we better fill in all the concrete manholes in all the city streets. son of a gun I better get rid of my basement and put my house on slab.


You can do anything in the backwoods right? Chicagos lining all concrete manholes right here now. And are you allowed to build a new concrete septic tank? Thank you


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

KoleckeINC said:


> You can do anything in the backwoods right? Chicagos lining all concrete manholes right here now. And are you allowed to build a new concrete septic tank? Thank you


we sure can they go in every day and all our new manholes are cement that I have seen.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

to bad the back water valves im familiar with seem to have a quick drop from 1 side to another or next time I install cleanout in a shallow drain I would install one and leave the flapper out. easy as can be man hole and not as much digging to get 2 wyes in.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

What about a 6" two way clean out and two eccentric couplings?


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

KoleckeINC said:


> What about a 6" two way clean out and two eccentric couplings?


maybe the going from big to small would cause trouble but It is a good idea non the less I'm sure that set up is illegal butI have a 3 inch line from my house to cement septic. no outside clean out, I'm going to install just what you described.

I won't install it anywhere else though because of big to small thing.

Hey here we go how about cut the top half out of a piece of 4 inch slide it through the six inch t with both ends of the uncut 4 inch out both side. epoxy the 4 inch pipe into the tee and there you have it. A full channel and a pipe big enough to dig stuff out of. 

those look worse than 1977 instruction from a product made in china


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

I hate pulling flappers (in a basement) when the sewer is full. Especially if some arse installed it in the house and the gutters are tied in. Frickin loser ash wipe half ass flood prevention system sucking sob's. I'm preparing for a full season of clean check removals. And overhead sewers.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Weeeeelllllll

UPC

316.2.3 
Plastic 
Pipe to Other Materials. 
When connecting plastic pipe to other types of piping, only approved types of fittings and adapters designed for the specific transition intended shall be used


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Good point I was talking about that with a guy today, So I will use a big Tee with absolutly no plumbing approval then it will be a leagal manhole or inspection port. Now aint that just f----g stupid


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