# Qualifying customers for remodels



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Renovation season is about to begin in about 3 months and I will be getting many phone calls for bathroom remodels. There was one week where I got probably 15 calls asking about renovation estimates. I was overwhelmed by the shear amount of DIY trying to get free estimates, hire me for peanuts or get free how to’s. They are very subtle.... 
I don’t want to spend all my time and energy to find out they are DIY and looking for a free consultation or people who want a free estimate thinking a remodel costs 300$. A lot of good people have no idea its not cheap.

How do you screen these calls to get a real customer? What questions do you ask to qualify them?

How do you avoid going to someone’s house talking to them for an hour about their project, spending a day preparing a quote and they don’t call you back?

Since many contractors will head out for free how do you persuade a potential customer that my hard work estimating and consulting ain’t free? OR once you screen them and sound reasonable do you go out for free? Do you sit down at their table to qualify them and charging for a quote(Not an estimate).

Would it be a wise idea to pepare a quote only once they already have one to show you? I’m probably going to be higher priced anyway as many companies send out aprentices to work alone even if its not legal.

I see sometimes that plumbing contractors already have a ready price per fixture.

I was also thinking of preparing a web page for them to read before I head out to their house that explains some procedures, budget, hiring licenced contractors etc.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

General price per fixture works best on new construction, not so much on remodels. A good idea to post something with a disclaimer.

I know some who will go out for an estimate and charge for it, but deduct that fee if they get the job.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Remodeling peoples bathrooms totally sucks... we 
did this kind of work decades ago and if you are busy , all it does is
get you tied up grinding away for days and days on end in someones 
bathroom....... good times..... 
I found that I actually lost money taking on theses calls because the second the job started , my phone would ring
off the hook with cream-dip easy high profit calls that I could not pull off
and take care of.......

Remember that you are up against a bunch of yay-hoos + carpenters that the customer found their business card at the home depot contractors desk , and the job is probably already quoted by them at some dog dirt cheap price that you cant touch....

I suggest that you throw a sky high figure at them over the phone and see how deep they sigh back at you.......if they have not flinched at you then you might have a decent call on your hands to estimate......:laugh::laugh:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark I agree 100% what you are saying. I may one day just do repairs/installations and small drain cleaning but for now I have to catch all that I can(within reason), I don't have many calls even though I have the most and best reviews compared to everyone else. I may get very busy in the future but who knows...

Since I didn't sign up for commercial work I'm pretty limited to what I'm allowed to do, private houses and private condo repairs/installation/renos. For drain cleaning I can do any sector as no licence is required. 

Since I've started I only got one fridge line. No one wants to pay for fridge line installations, dishwashers and water heaters, all these end up underground.



> Remember that you are up against a bunch of yay-hoos + carpenters that the customer found their business card at the home depot contractors desk , and the job is probably already quoted by them at some dog dirt cheap price that you cant touch....


Yep I know what I'm against that's why I got to figure out weeding techniques. I see that all the time for example this guy called me 3 weeks ago because there was a toilet leak in the basement, he'd hired a hack for all the bathroom reno. He didn't know how to repair the broken lead flange so he just put wax and it probably leaked from day one. The floor was rotted I had to remove the tiles, cut out the floor, cut the pipe, mushrooms and fungus had started to grow. Once I redid everything and cleaning up the under the table tile guy showed up. I told the owner I wasn't providing a warantee if the tile guy installed the toilet, guess what he still got the guy to do it! Pay twice but lesson not learned!

The idea for a high consulting fee/quote may be a good idea.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

GAN said:


> General price per fixture works best on new construction, not so much on remodels. A good idea to post something with a disclaimer.
> 
> I know some who will go out for an estimate and charge for it, but deduct that fee if they get the job.


“Deduct that fee if they get the job”. That fee gets added to the estimate and then taken off so the customer feels like they didn’t have to pay it.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

A big red flag for me is when a person tells me that they want to purchase their own materials; not just fixtures, but all the material. Pipes, fittings and fixtures. I run from those calls.


I try to get them to commit to having me come out and price things out. I don't come for free. That pre-qualifies them to a degree.

I have actually told people: " I don't do un-paid consulting. If you want me to tell you how to do something, it'll cost you $90.00 per hour with a {2} hour minimum." So far, no takers for a paid plumbing consultant.

It burns my a$$ when someone wants me to tell them how to do something for free.

One time a woman was asking how to replace toilet tank guts. She's like: "Oh how would I even change these parts?" She was fishing. That particular company was giving free estimates at the time. So people thought they could get a plumber out for free and pump him for info and advice. My response to her was: "If I told you, then you wouldn't need to hire a plumber." I was NOT going to give in to her. 

Maybe it's my service area, but I do not run into this type of customer at all. I'd say that over 90% of my customers are over the age of {65} years. Maybe it is more like 95% are seniors. There is pretty much no haggling and bargaining. 

Case in point from today: A man's got a heat recovery unit outside near his outside A/C condensing unit {heat recovery captures the heat thrown off of the A/C outside and pre-heats water in {2} 1/2" lines and sends it to the W/H for those who don't know}. It's been in the 20's here at night. A CPVC elbow froze and cracked. He found the ball valve in his garage to the heat recovery and shut it off to stop the water. He wanted me to cut and cap {2} 1/2" CPVC lines. I told him $180. He wrote me a check for $200, left "pay to the order of" blank and told me to leave my invoice in his garage on his re-loading table then left. I was done in about 45 minutes. 

Those are my typical customers. God love them.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Nice post Tommy plumber.

The majority of customers I get are 30-55 years old. The older generation don't call, it may be due to not using the internet. 

I had to fire a Moroccan customer today. I did 2 jobs previously, first time he was there and I got a cheque, second time no one is there I had to wait 35 minutes for the wife to show up after I was done. I had to follow her to the bank to get paid! Now he calls me to replace a faucet he's bought and he's bought valves for the pex lines. Then he tells me in order for me to get paid this time I'd have to drive to his work. I had to fire him.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Tango said:


> Nice post Tommy plumber.
> 
> The majority of customers I get are 30-55 years old. The older generation don't call, it may be due to not using the internet.
> 
> I had to fire a Moroccan customer today. I did 2 jobs previously, first time he was there and I got a cheque, second time no one is there I had to wait 35 minutes for the wife to show up after I was done. I had to follow her to the bank to get paid! Now he calls me to replace a faucet he's bought and he's bought valves for the pex lines. Then he tells me in order for me to get paid this time I'd have to drive to his work. I had to fire him.


 








I've gone to the bank with people in the past to get paid cash. When I lived and worked down in South Florida, where there is a big population, I also had to deal with the tire-kickers, the slum lords, the cheapos, the 30-something folks who were not earning much money, the re-modelers who spend $20,000 on a kitchen re-model, but want to skimp on the plumber's fee, etc. etc. 

But here in North Florida it is a different clientele calling. Like I said, mostly seniors and folks who can pay for services to maintain their homes.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I love effing with people who are fishing for free advice. Be in this long enough and you know.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Until now the advice I have is to charge a high amount for a visit for an estimate. I give them a high estimate on the spot. Then if they accept the aprox price I charge for a quote on the spot and tell them I'll deduct the fee if I get the Job while charging for it but it will not be shown.

I know all the free estimates are passed on to the person who accepts the contract without knowing it. I had in mind of putting an info web page about estimates and that particular part about those free estimate. Hopefully getting real customers to call back.

I was thinking when someone calls me I'd instantly refer them to read my web page stating estimate/consultation are paid. It would weed out all the blah blah on their first phone call?

If not then I could ask 4 quick questions to qualify them. Maybe their budget, if they have other bids, if they have set up/hired other trades yet. 

What other questions to qualify them? OR right off the bat I say sure I'll go for the estimate for this amount trying to shorten their half hour conversation to nowhere?


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Debo22 said:


> “Deduct that fee if they get the job”. That fee gets added to the estimate and then taken off so the customer feels like they didn’t have to pay it.



Yep yep of course. Either way if you don't get it you get a service call for not using tools, less your brain & pencil.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Tango said:


> Until now the advice I have is to charge a high amount for a visit for an estimate. I give them a high estimate on the spot. Then if they accept the aprox price I charge for a quote on the spot and tell them I'll deduct the fee if I get the Job while charging for it but it will not be shown.
> 
> I know all the free estimates are passed on to the person who accepts the contract without knowing it. I had in mind of putting an info web page about estimates and that particular part about those free estimate. Hopefully getting real customers to call back.
> 
> ...


 












Don't forget to ask their approx. start date and the time-frame that they want the work done. Also, is there a GC or is the home-owner overseeing things. 
One re-model that I did down in Palm Beach {same one where Mr. Trump has his Mar A Lago c.c.} the GC went to Canada for the month of July and left his assistant, Rosie in his place. She was in over her head. So you have to know with whom you will be dealing. A real GC who knows what they are doing, or a homeowner who doesn't have the foggiest idea what they are doing.

Time frame is important for {2} reasons: firstly, this job has to fit my schedule, and secondly, does the customer have unrealistic expectations. Does the customer want a re-model done in an unreasonable amount of time. As we in the construction industry know, many jobs are never on time or on budget.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

In our province a homeowner who hires all the contractors is illegal. He needs a Owner builder/GC licence and is responsible if someone gets hurt and all things a GC needs to have in place. The bad thing its not enforced what's so ever...The bureau has an easy time fining the contractors though!

They should hire a GC and chose his subcontractors if they want.

The time frame is important and a good idea to ask. They never imagine the real costs of the rough in and the time it takes. They sure think of buying shiny things thinking it installs by itself easily!:vs_whistle:


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t read all the posts. Remodel season? That lasts about 11 months a year here... kinda hard to call it a season. Just ****in with ya.

If I were slammed with free info/estimate calls I’d charge a fee, add it to the bid and discount it from the bid.

Another thing I learned long before starting my business is just say it can be done or this would be a better location. Never ever say how!!! They will **** it up and they’ll be calling you to bail their dyi asses out.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> I’ll be honest and say that I haven’t read all the posts. Remodel season? That lasts about 11 months a year here... kinda hard to call it a season. Just ****in with ya.
> 
> If I were slammed with free info/estimate calls I’d charge a fee, add it to the bid and discount it from the bid.
> 
> Another thing I learned long before starting my business is just say it can be done or this would be a better location. Never ever say how!!! They will **** it up and they’ll be calling you to bail their dyi asses out.


Remodeling season starts in May right after the snow melts and ends in October when its starts to snow. People take their vacation time to remodel.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Generally remodel stops during the holidays, of course there’s a big push to get finish done before thanksgiving. Exception to that rule is insurance claims.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

*Estimates*

I was searching old threads and looking at estimates and quotes, I noticed no one mentioned how much time it took them to really do a written estimate.

In my province an estimate is a contract. You can't modify the price once you've given it unless there are hidden issues once the job starts. If you present a written estimate and they are ready to sign and somehow the price changed you have detail why it changed.

Also an estimate has to have a materials list, work descriptions, time it takes, a break down basically.

How the heck do you guys that provide free estimate do it? Spend 1-2 days on a bath remodel estimate when you get 5 estimate calls a week?

Unless you give out a verbal price in the air in front of the customer. For me a verbal estimate is also a legal binding contract.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tango said:


> I was searching old threads and looking at estimates and quotes, I noticed no one mentioned how much time it took them to really do a written estimate.
> 
> In my province an estimate is a contract. You can't modify the price once you've given it unless there are hidden issues once the job starts. If you present a written estimate and they are ready to sign and somehow the price changed you have detail why it changed.
> 
> ...




IMHO..you need to move out of that suck-ass province you live in or find a better area of plumbing work to get into.... 

I have gone out on estimations before and I knew the momemt I got there I was just instructing them on how to do it themselves.... a few times a dumb ass brother-in-law was sitting on the sidelines listening to everything....
taking mental notes on how he was gonna tackle the job..... they even asked me how I would cut the cast pipe......

I told them a hack saw with a special blade:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

I got out of the place politely and told them I would e-mail them a bid... of course I never did.... he is probably still sawing away with the hack saw :crying::crying:

I am gonna pm you something...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> IMHO..you need to move out of that suck-ass province you live in or find a better area of plumbing work to get into....
> 
> I have gone out on estimations before and I knew the momemt I got there I was just instructing them on how to do it themselves.... a few times a dumb ass brother-in-law was sitting on the sidelines listening to everything....
> taking mental notes on how he was gonna tackle the job..... _ they even asked me how I would cut the cast pipe......
> ...


The hacksaw special is awesome!:devil3: You are the mentor I never had!

You are absolutely right my province is really difficult(suck as$), so many laws that I just recently learned about on friday when I was doing research on estimates. I want a little piece of remodels because I'ts real slow but your advice is spot on. I already know remodels are a can of worms that jump into your hair turning into bats! :surprise: It shouldn't take priority.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

It is official as of today, no more free estimates. I made a mistake yesterday. A guy calls to rough in a sink, dishwasher a fridge line and a few hack work piping underneath.

I told the guy I'd charge 1 hour to go and give an estimate. After were done he wants me there in 2 days and he has to move in 10 days. I say to him I'll give you a quote tomorrow and I can start the day after. So I'm thinking I got the job and I don't charge for the time and estimate. I spent one hour at the guys' house and over an hour in traffic bumper to bumper. I even dropped my price because I was going to be there all day.

I call him at noon and give him the price. He calls later saying his wife wants the counter top done first. blabla, it really didn't seem like a real reason. 

From now on a consultation fee just to go see and if it's a big project there will be an estimate fee.


By the way I'm almost done my webpage providing reno checklists and it's written that consultations will have applicable fees.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

I think you spend too much time with that cat, getting abused by your pet. 

quotes are over the phone or service call rate on site. 

sometimes I waive the service call if there is a lot of work and I get the job. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

> I think you spend too much time with that cat, getting abused by your pet



Who's abusing who? The guy who's abusing his faucet in his avatar! :biggrin:


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

So far my estimates have been pretty good. 

Yeah I burned a little time up making them, but I've made a spreadsheet to calculate markup for materials and all I have to do is do a quick iso, a fitting count, plug in the numbers and it spits out a price for me. Anything I don't have in my list, Ijust shoot off an email to my supplier and they send me pricing within a couple of hours. 

I really haven't spent that much time on my estimates so far, I'd rather spend an hour of my day looking at a job and make sure i'm not going to burn my ass for 4 hours of actual time working. 

This mobile repipe i'm doing for example : I still have 2.5 hours left on my bid and all I have to do is air test it. I also made a good profit on materials and ended up with some extra parts in the end. 

My boss used to say "Markup isn't there just so you can go buy a nice steak dinner. You need that to pay your bills."

I think he was doing something wrong. :vs_laugh:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

You are lucky to have a fast supply house. There's a new kid on the block as an electrical/plumbing/hvac supply house.

I go there in person, and I ask for a couple of things. The guy has no clue what I'm talking about. I find out he does electrical and the plumbing clerk is at his desk and is busy and tells me to come back later. Yeah right...

The other one ferguson but named wolseley sucks, I asked 3 times for a navitrack price. They never called back. I only go there as a last resort.


For me an estimate is a contract so I don't write it down because I'd have to fill out an extensive work description, with all the legalese. This would easily take 8 hours or more to write each one.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> You are lucky to have a fast supply house. There's a new kid on the block as an electrical/plumbing/hvac supply house.
> 
> I go there in person, and I ask for a couple of things. The guy has no clue what I'm talking about. I find out he does electrical and the plumbing clerk is at his desk and is busy and tells me to come back later. Yeah right...
> 
> ...


Ferguson does suck. They always substitute their pro flo junk when they don't have something in stock instead of offering to substitute or wait 3 weeks.


How descriptive does your scope of work in your contract need to be?

For mine I did something like this : 

Complete repipe of mobile home to replace water lines from water line at entry point under home up to each fixture. Hot water lines to be insulated. Replace water heater and install new 50 gallon electric (blah blah something about codes here). Does not include replacement of ANY fixtures. Any fixtures found to be leaking will be shut off and disconnected or permanently capped in the event that a tub or shower valve is leaking.

The rest of the contract is something i found online that applies to california. I modified it a bit to make it easier to read through and took out some repetitive garbage that didn't need to be taking up 14 friggin pages.

All I have to do is put the price, description, and the party names in and then print.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

I must have been extremely lucky when I had my biz.. A lot of bath remodels came from existing customers, and referrals. In almost every case, I acted as a GC, because the customers only wanted to deal with one person, instead of them running the show, or get Hire-A-Hack. My main problem was finding subs who were dependable, and yes, I did free estimates, but would not do so now.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Got a call for an estimate, a complete bathroom gut. I told him I charge one hour for a consultation to see if his budget was realistic. He was not happy he'd have to pay for my time. 

Anyway He's the first one to finally give me a budget. I asked him what was his budget was and he replied 3-4 thousand for everything. I guess he had no idea that its going to cost at least that much in materials and fixtures. 

I saved myself a lot of wasted energy.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> Got a call for an estimate, a complete bathroom gut. I told him I charge one hour for a consultation to see if his budget was realistic. He was not happy he'd have to pay for my time.
> 
> Anyway He's the first one to finally give me a budget. I asked him what was his budget was and he replied 3-4 thousand for everything. I guess he had no idea that its going to cost at least that much in materials and fixtures.
> 
> I saved myself a lot of wasted energy.


Would it have been feasible to talk him into trying to reuse the tub or shower unit to save some major labor and fixture cost? Talk him into hiring a tile guy and then all you have to provide is the drain, and he can worry about finishing the shower someday? 

This is something that I probably wouldn't have thought of on the spot, but now it's in the back of my mind.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

> Would it have been feasible to talk him into trying to reuse the tub or shower unit to save some major labor and fixture cost? Talk him into hiring a tile guy and then all you have to provide is the drain, and he can worry about finishing the shower someday?
> 
> This is something that I probably wouldn't have thought of on the spot, but now it's in the back of my mind.


It would be an option however people aren't like that here, they go for all new bling. They will pay for new faucets and tubs. The labor always ends up for the hacks.

I counted 2700$ just in new fixtures, nothing fancy, no labor. It's impossible to do the rest for 300$-1300$.

That's how people roll here black market.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Alan said:


> Would it have been feasible to talk him into trying to reuse the tub or shower unit to save some major labor and fixture cost? Talk him into hiring a tile guy and then all you have to provide is the drain, and he can worry about finishing the shower someday?
> 
> This is something that I probably wouldn't have thought of on the spot, but now it's in the back of my mind.



I don't want to sound like I'm being negative but I haven't seen anyone yet want to pay for licensed plumber labor in remodels. If there are people who want it I'd like to see them. Hopefully I can be proven wrong this summer.

Another issue is that for them going to their house and providing all the info and options they expect it to be free. I would easily spend days doing free legwork. Many also think that we should charge 8$/hour when minimum wage is 12$/hr. They can't fathom paying more than 100$/hr for labor. It is ridiculous to them.

It costs an employer 74$/hr to have a journeyman on new construction.



Finally after a year in business I realize I will only be doing repairs and drain cleaning. Sometimes I get to install a new line for an exterior hose bib. I don't get any remodels or renos even when I discount my hourly to the same rate as the other companies. If that's the case then I may have to start looking for mainline drain machines?


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

Tango said:


> Alan said:
> 
> 
> > Would it have been feasible to talk him into trying to reuse the tub or shower unit to save some major labor and fixture cost? Talk him into hiring a tile guy and then all you have to provide is the drain, and he can worry about finishing the shower someday?
> ...



Tango, you gotta pick up a mainline machine!
Drain cleaning with out one was always nerve racking for me when I was first starting out.

You can also get the ridgd sonde and locater, then your in business doing your backwater valves.

Then comes the camera !
Haha


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Fatpat said:


> Tango, you gotta pick up a mainline machine!
> Drain cleaning with out one was always nerve racking for me when I was first starting out.
> 
> You can also get the ridgd sonde and locater, then your in business doing your backwater valves.
> ...



I'll have to do my homework first. If I get a cable stuck I owe them new pipe new basement reno, new lawn etc. I'll need to find a specific lawyer to write a bullet proof waiver.

As for the sonde I've looked into it and only got 3-4 calls for it in one year so at the moment it isn't worth it. main drain maybe a call once every 5 weeks.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Tango said:


> Got a call for an estimate, a complete bathroom gut. I told him I charge one hour for a consultation to see if his budget was realistic. He was not happy he'd have to pay for my time.
> 
> Anyway He's the first one to finally give me a budget. I asked him what was his budget was and he replied 3-4 thousand for everything. I guess he had no idea that its going to cost at least that much in materials and fixtures.
> 
> I saved myself a lot of wasted energy.




thats exactly what ive been talking about! good work!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

dreamhome said:


> and there are some horror plumbing storiesxd


GET OFF MY LAWN. Spammer!


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> thats exactly what ive been talking about! good work!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got another couple who just bought a house and wants to enlarge a bathroom into a bedroom. I asked him if he read my renovation page which he said he did. He spent 10 minutes 36 seconds on it judging by google analytics.

Anyway he didn't want to give me his budget and he was buying the fixtures. (which is preferable anyway). It's a recurring theme not to say how much they can spend and I told him many people want a free estimate to find out their unrealistic budget is 2000$ for a complete tear down and moving fixtures around. Oh and some accents think a new non existent basement bathroom is 400$

One hour fee to go check it out, he said he'll talk to his wife about it. I'll see if he calls back.

It's funny because some will spend 10 000$ for a reno but they are outraged to have to pay less than 200$ for an estimate and my time to count it up....

As Steve Lav says....I don't work for free!


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

How come all these people are calling a plumber instead of a GC for a bathroom remodel? 

Who’s going to do demo, tile, cabinets, mirrors, towel bars, etc etc?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Debo22 said:


> How come all these people are calling a plumber instead of a GC for a bathroom remodel?
> 
> Who’s going to do demo, tile, cabinets, mirrors, towel bars, etc etc?


Good question, most people do their own renos, it's as easy as on tv! They get their father, or family member most of the time.

If they do hire a GC, the GC will usually do it all, and illegally most of the time. Last week a kid who started his own GC called me because he had to install a tub/shower plus water rough in the afternoon he called me and wanted me to do finish it that evening. He went on saying indirectly he was paying a plumber or handy hack on the side and he thought I was going to do a free estimate first and it would cost 200$ for everything. Moron...

In my city more than 30-45 new GCs every year, most doing illegal trade work once they get the licence. Some don't pass their licence and still go ahead in doing reno's. I can't put them all in one basket but I know it's corrupt as hell.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> How come all these people are calling a plumber instead of a GC for a bathroom remodel?
> 
> Who’s going to do demo, tile, cabinets, mirrors, towel bars, etc etc?



Read my earlier post.. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em! If you know good subs you can hire, then act as a GC, mark up your subs costs 10%, add your time overseeing the job. I made good $$ doing just that. But, if the HO is going to play GC, forget it.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Read my earlier post.. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em! If you know good subs you can hire, then act as a GC, mark up your subs costs 10%, add your time overseeing the job. I made good $$ doing just that. But, if the HO is going to play GC, forget it.


I wouldn't want to be a GC, the subs literally doing substandard work is the norm and I would be left holding the bag. Not to mention the competition from the millions of small GCs...

In my province _the HO is going to play GC,_ is illegal, they need a builder owner GC licence. That's the law but no one cares and no homeowner will study over 200 books for the 4 exams. It's funny though if they play GC and a trade worker gets an accident they are responsible for his rehab and all fees and other paperwork.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Debo22 said:


> How come all these people are calling a plumber instead of a GC for a bathroom remodel?
> 
> Who’s going to do demo, tile, cabinets, mirrors, towel bars, etc etc?


To make it easier to read and add a few points. I may sound grim but that's the reality over here.

1) Most people do their own renos, it's as easy as on tv! They get their 
father, or family member most of the time. Some hire a contractor plumber and electrician for those specialty phase.(It is legal to do your own work but illegal to get help from a family and friends in this situation)

2)They hire black market handy hack.

3) They hire a trades person(like a tile guy) who will call on some buddies for 
other things, also cash black market.

4) Homeowner do their own illegal GC and call individual trades

5) Hire a real 1-2 man GC who does it all himself illegally or they hire one or 
two trades person in black market cash .

6) Hire a honest GC who hires proper trades underneath him


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

so if I have my canadian right

your bent over and the Homeowner acting as gc is behind you with a plunger just givin er?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> so if I have my canadian right
> 
> your bent over and the Homeowner acting as gc is behind you with a plunger just givin er?
> 
> ...


That's a tough one to figure out, not sure how to interpret what you are saying....

Unless you are saying the homeowner is screwing my behind???


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