# Going back to customer that had water leak repaired 7 years ago



## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

We are slab here and had to chip the beam and make a repair, it appears it could be a coupling that came loose, Dont know until we jackhammer tomorrow.

Should we just eat it and say thank you for calling us again

Now if it a different spot close to the repair we offered to give the homeowner the original cost of the repair.

The original plumber has died since the repair was made, so we can't ask him him.

How would you handle this if the orignal repair has failed?


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

TallCoolOne said:


> We are slab here and had to chip the beam and make a repair, it appears it could be a coupling that came loose, Dont know until we jackhammer tomorrow.
> 
> Should we just eat it and say thank you for calling us again
> 
> ...


Seven years is a long time. If you uncover it and your plumber silver soldered it and it cracked next to the weld (as usually happens with silver soldered joints), I'd say it was the customer's nickel. 

This is Texas clay...it moves around 

If your plumber soft soldered or pressed it, then you're going to have to eat it


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

TallCoolOne said:


> We are slab here and had to chip the beam and make a repair, it appears it could be a coupling that came loose, Don't know until we jackhammer tomorrow.
> 
> Should we just eat it and say thank you for calling us again
> 
> ...


All depend if its still under warranty.
If not covered buy warranty bid it like any other repair.

If it is still under warranty , before you dig it up,
I would make it clear on the work order, that you will dig it up and IF it is a new leak this $$$ what it will cost for the repair. If it is the same repair that has failed No Charge.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

TallCoolOne said:


> We are slab here and had to chip the beam and make a repair, it appears it could be a coupling that came loose, Dont know until we jackhammer tomorrow.
> 
> Should we just eat it and say thank you for calling us again
> 
> ...


Tuff one. 

If it was done by code and he didn't throw a rock onto it when covering it, they would pay. "Act of God" perhaps? Power grounded to pipes, something happens, it pops a hole in a weak area...could be anything unrelated.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Personally if it lasted 7 years and isn't an obvious mistake I wouldn't call it warranty.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Why aren't you rerouting the pipe above ground?


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

JK949 said:


> Why aren't you rerouting the pipe above ground?


A good strategy: Clearly conditions below slab are bad, we need to do a by-pass this time :thumbsup:


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Time for repipe.:thumbsup:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

If the original leak was due to age and conditions and not a result of installation (kink, resting on rebar), I would say there is no warranty against further leakage. You should be able to guaranty the repair but nothing else, no matter how close. If I'm doing a repair below slab and the pipe is old (20+ years) I tell the customer that only the section between the couplings is guaranteed. I do not guarantee my connection to the old and failing pipe, only to my new pipe.






Paul


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Curious why after seven years this would be considered warranty work?  One to two years depending where you live should be standard. If workmanship is in question that would have shown up long before seven years.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Warranty is 12 months. Period.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Warranty is 12 months. Period.



unless you find a compression fitting. :laughing:


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

We wont warranty the joint connecting to the old pipe. Like Rock said we will only warranty the new pipe and the joint to it we install. But after 7 yrs?? no way would it be warranty at all.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

JK949 said:


> Why aren't you rerouting the pipe above ground?


Cheaper for the homeowner and less destructive in this case, we only re route as last case basis.

The repair is next to a manifold on the hot side very close to the water heater


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I agree with the leak not being a warranty. My question is why would a plumber cut the pipe and install a coupling. You know that area is compromised and you should replace at LEAST 6 inches on both sides of the pin hole.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

If the home owner brought it up they more likley want a free bee. Even I'd your plumber pressrd it or used a shark bite. Ther shouldn't be a warranty. Arty this rate the grand kids of the owner will be doing a bunch of free work. That being said now you have to man up to your word if you told them if it is at his repair its free than easy it keep you word. Next time you know have your warranty on your contract so the h.o. Will know you got torealiZe the ground shifts stop even if its at the coupling you don't know if its his fault. Btw our warranty is 90 days if something happens in 91 days you paying for it


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I agree with the leak not being a warranty. My question is why would a plumber cut the pipe and install a coupling. You know that area is compromised and you should replace at LEAST 6 inches on both sides of the pin hole.


Homeowner still has the old pipe that was kinked lengthwise of the pipe, like crumpled, and leak appeared on the kink. It was was cut out at least 6 inches or more on both sides.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

TallCoolOne said:


> Homeowner still has the old pipe that was kinked lengthwise of the pipe, like crumpled, and leak appeared on the kink. It was was cut out at least 6 inches or more on both sides.


 
If this is supposed to make me feel beter it doesn't. Pipe is CRUMPLED definitely informs you the rpofessional the whole system is compromised big time.No repair today unless the customer has NO money. Funny how when the time comes to get money it is found.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

No warranty. Love how they kept the old pipe. I bet there next words will be. Why didn't the last Guy repipe the house knowing the pipes are in bad shape. Lol


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Repipe a whole house because of one bad section of pipe?

Yeah, that's how I would want to be treated. 

Hold the speculation, dig it up, fix it, be fair, if it's not your fault, (which it prolly isn't) get paid, move on.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

We dug up the old repair and it was a good repair.

Located the leak about 8 feet from old repair, it was inside the garage and 7 inches deep on 3/4 hot line it had a large pin hole.

When we put air on the line yesterday we had bubbles and lots of water coming up in a 20 feet area.

I took some pics of the job today of the old repair and the old pipe the H.O. kept. After the leak was found in the gargage I took off for a Gas Leak, but was told the repair was simple and since she was a return customer we gave her the same price of repair that she was charged 7 years ago. 

I will post some pics when I get home tomorrow from work, have a CSST gas line that a roofer hit early in the morning


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Repipe a whole house because of one bad section of pipe?
> 
> Yeah, that's how I would want to be treated.
> 
> Hold the speculation, dig it up, fix it, be fair, if it's not your fault, (which it prolly isn't) get paid, move on.


 
How many times will you repair compromised pipe before you decide it is worth YOUR time to replace? I’ve visited to many people that paid the price of a re-pipe in repairs due to old school thinking like this. This kind of thinking is flawed. Insanity is defined by repeating a specific behavior and expecting different results. Why would you expect the piping not to leak in the future?This is NOT speculation it is fact.

To determine whether a home requires re-piping based on how many leaks is not the right way to do business. The first leak the pipe crumbled. The second leak is 20 feet away. We know there is more than 20 feet of piping in the home. However the 20 feet of piping is compromised. Why wait until Timmy falls into the well to send Lassie to find a hero?


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

TallCoolOne said:


> We dug up the old repair and it was a good repair.
> 
> Located the leak about 8 feet from old repair, it was inside the garage and 7 inches deep on 3/4 hot line it had a large pin hole.
> 
> ...


Soooo, thinking about rerouting now?


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

No warranty for pipe under the slab. I braze everything, still no warranty. Worst place for water pipe. First leak is a warning of whats to come. 

they got 7 years, that's great, they had 7 years to save up to do a proper reroute.


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

*no warranty here*

No way it is warranty after seven years! Unless there was obvious indications of job done poorly. But, as was said earlier, if the job was done poorly, it should have shown up long before now. Seven years later, it's just another service call.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Time for repipe?:whistling2: 

Why replace the whole tire? when you can put a plug in it.

Why replace the parachute? you can patch it.

At some point that slab is ging to look like Swiss cheese.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

No offense to the guys suggesting repipes, but the economy sucks right now. I have customers with bad sewer lines not flushing TP, customers not using sinks because they leak under the slab and into the duct work ect. A repipe can be costly especially with wall repair ect. I am sure he or his guys talked to their customer about it.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

DesertOkie said:


> No offense to the guys suggesting repipes, but the economy sucks right now. I have customers with bad sewer lines not flushing TP, customers not using sinks because they leak under the slab and into the duct work ect. A repipe can be costly especially with wall repair ect. I am sure he or his guys talked to their customer about it.


 
This is very true. A repipe is a long-term vision and a lot of folks aren't looking that far down the road right now. They can put $1000 on the credit card for a slab leak repair, open and close, or they can eat $5,000 for a pex repipe. I run into this fairly often. It might not make long term sense but it's their money and their choice. Offering the options is the right thing to do but trying to steer somebody in one direction because you think they need it is wrong. Might as well pull out the chains and get comfy at the kitchen table. Plus, I don't have it in me to write up 15 page contracts.




Paul


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> No offense to the guys suggesting repipes, but the economy sucks right now. I have customers with bad sewer lines not flushing TP, customers not using sinks because they leak under the slab and into the duct work ect. A repipe can be costly especially with wall repair ect. I am sure he or his guys talked to their customer about it.


You say "right now" as though it will ever get better.

He never said the customer was broke, so the best fix for the situation is repipe.

If they are broke then another patch will have to do, I'd let them know, that a patch is all it is, a "patch", and there should not be a warranty for it, hope that last seven years as well. Good luck. Best wishes :thumbsup:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

No way for me to warrant 7 years later. The piping had issues long ago hence the first repair, it hasn't gotten any younger. Repair or reroute if total repipe is out.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

JK949 said:


> Soooo, thinking about rerouting now?


ReRouting would be close to 15 to 20k or more, and we would have to chop us alot of sheetrock.

This was pop a hole in the garage, make the repair and scoot on down the road.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I don't see the point of making spot repairs. The home owner needs to be informed of the fact this will happen over and over. The home owner is probably thinking they will get 7 more years. Well the fact is the next is most likely sooner. Heck the vibration from the jackhammer just shortened the life of the pipe around the work that was done.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

a leak every 7 years. If the fix is 2K and the repipe is 15K. looks like it would take 49 years to break even. Lets say they are 50(they have been in the house 7 years at least). I have found most people in their 70s say Just repair it, let my kids worry about it when I'm dead.

Just my .02


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> a leak every 7 years. If the fix is 2K and the repipe is 15K. looks like it would take 49 years to break even. Lets say they are 50(they have been in the house 7 years at least). I have found most people in their 70s say Just repair it, let my kids worry about it when I'm dead.
> 
> Just my .02


 
When presented with facts,information and THEY get to choose what is best for them is the right thing to do.Frequently the plumber tries to make the decision for the customer.
The customer gets what they want period however it is up to you the professional to inform them so they can make a good choice.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

patrick88 said:


> I don't see the point of making spot repairs. The home owner needs to be informed of the fact this will happen over and over. The home owner is probably thinking they will get 7 more years. Well the fact is the next is most likely sooner. Heck the vibration from the jackhammer just shortened the life of the pipe around the work that was done.


Actually I have been doing this since late 90's and specializing in leaks.

I can only think of a handful of times I have ever had to go back to a house for seperate leak on a line


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> a leak every 7 years. If the fix is 2K and the repipe is 15K. looks like it would take 49 years to break even. Lets say they are 50(they have been in the house 7 years at least). I have found most people in their 70s say Just repair it, let my kids worry about it when I'm dead.
> 
> Just my .02


Exactly

Plus it would cost them a small fortune to re route water pipes on the houses i work on.........


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> a leak every 7 years. If the fix is 2K and the repipe is 15K. looks like it would take 49 years to break even. Lets say they are 50(they have been in the house 7 years at least). I have found most people in their 70s say Just repair it, let my kids worry about it when I'm dead.
> 
> Just my .02


Ahhhh now I see, yeah a repipe in pex around here basicly starts 3k for a one bath and goes up a grand per bathroom. So our repipe is more compairable to your spot fix. Oh well.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> No offense to the guys suggesting repipes, but the economy sucks right now. I have customers with bad sewer lines not flushing TP, customers not using sinks because they leak under the slab and into the duct work ect. A repipe can be costly especially with wall repair ect. I am sure he or his guys talked to their customer about it.


 
we all can point to exceptions. I cannot and I refuse to believe that ALL customers are in the same boat as far as the economy.Some of you have this false belief that we are heartless you have the wrong impression.99% of the people can come up with the money they do it all the time to buy stuff for the home.

How many times ahve you wlaked into a persons home and they have a 46 inch flat screen tv yet do not have enough money to make a plumbing repair.We want to buy our on excuses.

I've always done it this way is the great stumbling block known to man.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> we all can point to exceptions. I cannot and I refuse to believe that ALL customers are in the same boat as far as the economy.Some of you have this false belief that we are heartless you have the wrong impression.99% of the people can come up with the money they do it all the time to buy stuff for the home.
> 
> How many times ahve you wlaked into a persons home and they have a 46 inch flat screen tv yet do not have enough money to make a plumbing repair.We want to buy our on excuses.
> 
> I've always done it this way is the great stumbling block known to man.


I agree Richard, I only made the statement because of the number of comments that were based on the opinion that a repipe was not mentioned. 

TCO seems to be professional enough to cover all bases and talk to the customer about it. 

My view on the subject is a little skewed because I work in a poor county. I deal with the same issue at least once a week. Here the price is half or less what it would be most other places. 

I just get kinda tired of the "cust is an idiot for not doing it right" opinions when the plumbers don't know the facts. When your living check to check you are lucky to be able to fix a slab leak and pay the mortgage. 

Just my .02


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I seldom go on *a* *leak* and suggest a repipe. If I find out after talking with the customers that this is not the first leak I might talk to them about a repipe.
Most folks will let thier house get flooded 3 or 4 times before they are convinced a repipe is needed. They'd rather throw the money at fun stuff any day over a necessity. But who wouldn't.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> we all can point to exceptions. I cannot and I refuse to believe that ALL customers are in the same boat as far as the economy.Some of you have this false belief that we are heartless you have the wrong impression.99% of the people can come up with the money they do it all the time to buy stuff for the home.
> 
> How many times ahve you wlaked into a persons home and they have a 46 inch flat screen tv yet do not have enough money to make a plumbing repair.We want to buy our on excuses.
> 
> I've always done it this way is the great stumbling block known to man.


Very interested in what you have to say on this, Richard...any chance you can clean this up so I can understand it? I think the iphone nerfed your text :laughing:


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Pic of original leak 7 years ago


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Very interested in what you have to say on this, Richard...any chance you can clean this up so I can understand it? I think the iphone nerfed your text :laughing:


 

John I am not sure what it is you do not understand.

I will break it down if that is what you are asking.

Frequently people in the service industry will point to the economy and try to blame the economy for not making a sale or the right sale. BS. The economy is the exception rather than the norm. It is an excuse used to accept poor performance 8-9% of the time if not a lower percentage. I use that percentage due to the % of unemployment. Before you jump I work in an area where the unemployment is at 17%. Out of work construction personnel is at a higher rate in this area. Quit using it as a crutch. If I chose to I could sit here all day to talk about the 1-2% that does not buy from me, what does that accomplish for me or the company I work with, zilch? Instead of complaining about the inability of customers to buy, do something about it and influence a decision to buy.

I have been accused of being a heartless person due to my sales experience which is a false and misleading statement. It is so far from the truth and is just another excuse not to perform at peak levels. Give the right information and allow your customer to make the right choice for them. It is not my decision to make concerning the customers budget. It is my responsibility to give him or her viable options and let him or her choose.

Every and I repeat every customer that has a problem that I did not take care of and have returned to visit for a different task has had that repair taken care of. They have the money it is your duty to align their reasons to buy what you have to give. They will tell you they do not have the money yet there is a brand new RCA 46 inch TV in the living room with the latest Home Theatre System or 2-3 lap tops at 700 bucks a pop.

Finally the number one reason trades people do not evolve is due to things they have always done in the past and will keep doing in the future even though the results of today do not equal the results of the past. I talk with a lot of plumbers in the US, Canada, and Australia and it is amazing how difficult it is to break away from the past. It is a fear of loss, fear of something new, fear of success, fear of the sale, fear of failure. In order to beat a fear you must face that fear until it becomes success. Research and discover what will work for you, there are many people and organziations that are there to help guide you.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I thought this was on topic...


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> John I am not sure what it is you do not understand.
> 
> I will break it down if that is what you are asking.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Richard.

It was the typo's that had me confused in the first post. They fell at just the right points where I couldn't discern the intent is all.


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