# Hair Salon



## smudge

Some ideas or thoughts. Busy hair salon on certain days currently have Bradford White 40 gallon electric water heater. This heater can not keep up with the hair washing. I found a unit called eemax 240t2t electric instant water heater. Are they good? Has anyone installed one? I need to stay with electric there is no nat. gas in building. there is also no room to put in a bigger tank. These woman in salon are my biggest fans and get me a fair amount of work, so I need to do a stellar job. Any input or ideas would be great.


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## easttexasplumb

I am not a big fan of doing this but, installing a mixing valve at heater and turning the temp up high is an option.


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## 1703

IMO, Eemax is over priced junk.


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## smudge

Is there something else I should look at?


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## plbgbiz

Not gonna be cheap but maybe this will keep up....

http://www.hotwaterheater.com/

http://www.hotwaterheater.com/applications-1.html

http://www.hotwaterheater.com/retail-2.html

http://www.hotwaterheater.com/retail-3.html


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## ILPlumber

smudge said:


> Is there something else I should look at?


 
Getting natural gas service.... It's cheaper than you think.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

If you have 10-2 wiring (30amp) to this heater, you could buy a 40 or 50 gallon tall from Sears, a Kenmore and set the bottom element to heat at 5500 watts. It's the only water heater that has that clip you can install to almost bring the recovery rate to that of a natural gas unit.

That unit fires at 3800 upper/lower, the majority of the rest are always 4500 upper/lower that demands 30amp wire.

Check the specs at their website. Warranty is void I believe in a commercial application, but any heater sold usually is 2 years for commercial use.


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## 1703

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> If you have 10-2 wiring (30amp) to this heater, you could buy a 40 or 50 gallon tall from Sears, a Kenmore and set the bottom element to heat at 5500 watts. It's the only water heater that has that clip you can install to almost bring the recovery rate to that of a natural gas unit.
> 
> That unit fires at 3800 upper/lower, the majority of the rest are always 4500 upper/lower that demands 30amp wire.
> 
> Check the specs at their website. Warranty is void I believe in a commercial application, but any heater sold usually is 2 years for commercial use.


Are you saying that 5500 watts is close to 40,000 btu?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Colgar said:


> Are you saying that 5500 watts is close to 40,000 btu?


 

I'm saying I've compared 1st hour recovery rates from the standpoint of 1st hour on a gas to 1st hour cooking that water at 5500 watts, and they were not too far off the beaten path between the two.

But from a cost perspective? 


Heating water, supply and demand will have that meter wheel spinning like a top. It'll cost more to heat that water by far.


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## OldSchool

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> If you have 10-2 wiring (30amp) to this heater, you could buy a 40 or 50 gallon tall from Sears, a Kenmore and set the bottom element to heat at 5500 watts. It's the only water heater that has that clip you can install to almost bring the recovery rate to that of a natural gas unit.
> 
> That unit fires at 3800 upper/lower, the majority of the rest are always 4500 upper/lower that demands 30amp wire.
> 
> Check the specs at their website. Warranty is void I believe in a commercial application, but any heater sold usually is 2 years for commercial use.


*Caution bad information....*

3800 watts plus 4500 watts is 8300 watts

8300 watts divided by 240 volts is 34.58 amps

number 10 wire will not handle that

you will have to use # 8 wire


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## RealLivePlumber

Both elements don't fire at the same time.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

I don't deal much with elect equipment much but I know that salons have a lot of point of uses so you might be able to put a few point of use heaters and see if that can't reduce your btu load (don't know models but I know there out there)

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## Plumber3653

Are there still those who believe that by turning up the HWT thermostat that you create MORE hot water than what previously existed?
"I am not a big fan of doing this but, installing a mixing valve at heater and turning the temp up high is an option."
Hotter water then tempering is not the way I would go...call me crazy.
Recently, though, I plumbed in a salon that had a 50 gallon, high efficiency gas fired w/3" power vented flue. Still didn't provide the volume demanded. Two gas fired Rennai's did however keep up with the demand but will probably need to be cleaned yearly to clear build up from inside the units. 
Never had a good experience with Eemax. Problematic and cheaply made, IMO.
Rennai has a sizing calculator to help you pick the properly sized appliance(s) if it helps.
http://calc.rinnai.us/


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

OldSchool said:


> *Caution bad information....*
> 
> 3800 watts plus 4500 watts is 8300 watts
> 
> 8300 watts divided by 240 volts is 34.58 amps
> 
> number 10 wire will not handle that
> 
> you will have to use # 8 wire


 

Mr. Canada,



Final Answer?


You might know math but not electric. 


3800 watts = 20amp rated wire. 

4500 watts = 30amp rated wire.

5500 watts = 30amp rated wire. 


Do your wattage to amperage calculations.


Got a paypal account? Wager a bet and I expect payment when you lose.


Be the hero and run this by any electrical forum.


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## Plumber3653

I guess as the cheapest alternative, as opposed to installing a gas supply for the tankless unit(s), attempting higher recovery via higher wattage could be a start. It would be helpful to know what type of demand we're looking at. 4 salon sinks? 8? 12 salon sinks and two bathrooms?..most salons have on site laundry and do a lot during the day. They may need volume,volume, volume.


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## DIZ

easttexasplumb said:


> I am not a big fan of doing this but, installing a mixing valve at heater and turning the temp up high is an option.


Why not a fan of this?


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## easttexasplumb

DIZ said:


> Why not a fan of this?


Turning the temp up past 135 F just goes against what I have been taught and trained to do.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

easttexasplumb said:


> Turning the temp up past 135 F just goes against what I have been taught and trained to do.


Plus mixing valves fail and customer gets burnt and only lawyer makes money

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## DIZ

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Mr. Canada,
> 
> 
> 
> Final Answer?
> 
> 
> You might know math but not electric.
> 
> 
> 3800 watts = 20amp rated wire.
> 
> 4500 watts = 30amp rated wire.
> 
> 5500 watts = 30amp rated wire.
> 
> 
> Do your wattage to amperage calculations.
> 
> 
> Got a paypal account? Wager a bet and I expect payment when you lose.
> 
> 
> Be the hero and run this by any electrical forum.


Maybe he's considering a max load @ 80% rule? I may be wrong though as math is not my strong suit.


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## ckoch407

Never heard of an electric wh that both upper and lower elements fire at the same time.


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## ckoch407

At OP, yes that model heater will work great.....
But only if you put one at each sink. They do not heat to the specifications they are claiming. Series tanks maybe? Or upgrade panel to 3 phase for a $$$$ true fast recovery electric.


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## OldSchool

RealLivePlumber said:


> Both elements don't fire at the same time.


I thought thats is what dunbar wanted to do...... was have both elements run ning in order to get more recovery


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## OldSchool

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Mr. Canada,
> 
> 
> 
> Final Answer?
> 
> 
> You might know math but not electric.
> 
> 
> 3800 watts = 20amp rated wire.
> 
> 4500 watts = 30amp rated wire.
> 
> 5500 watts = 30amp rated wire.
> 
> 
> Do your wattage to amperage calculations.
> 
> 
> Got a paypal account? Wager a bet and I expect payment when you lose.
> 
> 
> Be the hero and run this by any electrical forum.


Dunbar.... what I got from your intial suggestion was that you wanted both elements running....

Other than that your intial comments would not make any sense at all ....

*You say you can get the tank to be close to gas* :laughing: *Your words* (*If you have 10-2 wiring (30amp) to this heater, you could buy a 40 or 50 gallon tall from Sears, a Kenmore and set the bottom element to heat at 5500 watts. It's the only water heater that has that clip you can install to almost bring the recovery rate to that of a natural gas unit.)* with just one element running .. just by using one element ... is that what you are really trying to say .... come on Dunbar.... that just does not make any sense at all..

To double the output on an electric tank you would have to have both elements running not just by increasing element from 3800 watts to 5000 watts


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## OldSchool

ckoch407 said:


> Never heard of an electric wh that both upper and lower elements fire at the same time.


They dont but you can rewire them if you wanted to.... still void the warranty


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## smudge

3 hair washing sinks, 1 clothes washer , 1 lav. total load. when they are busy all 3 hair sinks and cloths washer are being used at same time. 40 gallon doesn't come close. Gas is not an option there is no where to vent


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## smudge

electric is 120/ 208 3 phase 4 wires


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

smudge said:


> 3 hair washing sinks, 1 clothes washer , 1 lav. total load. when they are busy all 3 hair sinks and cloths washer are being used at same time. 40 gallon doesn't come close. Gas is not an option there is no where to vent


I still think you can use point of use heaters at the sinks and your existing hwh for the washing machine

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## breid1903

ok i'll bite. why don't they wash with cold water? breid...................:rockon:


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## Plumber3653

Not a fan of turning up the heat then mixing because it doesn't have the desired effect of increasing the available volume of hot water to where it will make a difference. How much volume of a 40 gallon hot water tank, when set at 125 deg. F. truly holds 125 degree water? Now turn it up to 140 degrees and how much volume is truly 125 through 140 degrees? Your just cutting the life expectancy of your tank and using more energy for very little result. Properly sized appliances save the customer money and help your reputation as a service provider.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

OldSchool said:


> Dunbar.... what I got from your intial suggestion was that you wanted both elements running....
> 
> Other than that your intial comments would not make any sense at all ....
> 
> *You say you can get the tank to be close to gas* :laughing: *Your words* (*If you have 10-2 wiring (30amp) to this heater, you could buy a 40 or 50 gallon tall from Sears, a Kenmore and set the bottom element to heat at 5500 watts. It's the only water heater that has that clip you can install to almost bring the recovery rate to that of a natural gas unit.)* with just one element running .. just by using one element ... is that what you are really trying to say .... come on Dunbar.... that just does not make any sense at all..
> 
> To double the output on an electric tank you would have to have both elements running not just by increasing element from 3800 watts to 5000 watts


 



*Tell me what water heater will allow both elements to fire at the same time. And why would that be necessary? *

*I already stated the facts that Kenmore is the only water heater mfg. made that offers that ability to heat water in that fashion...*

*I'm repeating myself and *

*look at the 1st hour recovery rates with that clip installed in gas vs. electric.*

*It's not razor close but anything that'll bring hot water quicker than conventional is what I'm driving at, and he already mentioned sizing constraints.*

*Did you star in this video?*





 

I've been down the stone path more than once my friend... many times.




You didn't read my statement about the clip I mentioned to make the element cook at 5500 watts.


You owe me $200 because I take canadian money I gotta charge for the conversion to american currency.

:laughing:


If you're gonna call me out, be prepared to lose money out of your pocket if you're wrong.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

breid1903 said:


> ok i'll bite. why don't they wash with cold water? breid...................:rockon:


What do I know maybe the label says wash in hot water only

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## Plumber3653

In my last post re: why not turn up HWT, I was incomplete in my explanation. Once the tank is heated and use begins, every outgoing gallon requires incoming cold water. You will never get a full 40 gallons of 125 or 140 degree water from a 40 gallon tank is what it boils down to.


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## plbgbiz

Plumber3653 said:


> Not a fan of turning up the heat then mixing because it doesn't have the desired effect of increasing the available volume of hot water to where it will make a difference. How much volume of a 40 gallon hot water tank, when set at 125 deg. F. truly holds 125 degree water? Now turn it up to 140 degrees and how much volume is truly 125 through 140 degrees? Your just cutting the life expectancy of your tank and using more energy for very little result. Properly sized appliances save the customer money and help your reputation as a service provider.


I believe you are mistaken...
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/115-B.pdf

This is a common and effective practice of providing more gallons of usable hot water from a smaller size unit. I don't see why there could not be some benefit on an electric unit also.


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## ILPlumber

Plumber3653 said:


> In my last post re: why not turn up HWT, I was incomplete in my explanation. Once the tank is heated and use begins, every outgoing gallon requires incoming cold water. You will never get a full 40 gallons of 125 or 140 degree water from a 40 gallon tank is what it boils down to.


 
Pssst. 

You are adding cold to that 140 degree water to cool it back down to 125 degree water. 

If I take a gallon of 140 degree water and add a quarter of a gallon of 70 degree water. 

How much 125 degree water do I have.................. 

You guessed it, 1.25 gallons. 

I knew you could do it. I'm proud of you.


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## plumber666

Go for the Eemax point of use units. I've used the low temp ones for eye wash stns and found them to be good. They'd be ideal for your situation.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

plumber666 said:


> Go for the Eemax point of use units. I've used the low temp ones for eye wash stns and found them to be good. They'd be ideal for your situation.


That's what I've been saying

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## Plumber3653

No, I am not mistaken, Biz. My origional post states "it doesn't have the desired effect of increasing the available volume of hot water to where it will make a difference." If you could get the desired volume of usable hot water from a 40 gallon tank to match the demand of a 50 gallon tank by simply turning the thermostat up, then why produce 50 gallon hot water tanks. Key words: "desired effect" and "make a difference". Just because it is "common practice" doesn't make it right. Turning up the heat to make a small tank do the job of a big tank (or a tankless unit) IS NOT RECOMMENDED. Period. Get the right tank for the job. How can you argue with something so simple. I also do not recommend using channel locks as a hammer, but it may be common practice, so what the heck...do it (sarcasm). Having a tank fire more frequently and at higher temperatures will prematurely age the tank. So you are using the appliance for the wrong job and abusing it. So, I am not mistaken.
Added after post: Curious, plbgbiz. As a business owner, if one of your employees were to be asked by a customer " I don't get enough hot water to suit my needs. I have a large family and run out of hot water during shower times, laundry and dishwashing. Can you do anything for me to solve this problem?" How much should your employee charge for just turning up the thermostat?


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## Plumber3653

ILPlumber, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I was just stating that the typical 125 degree water is cooled when the water is called for as well as 140 degree water is cooled when water is called for. I don't see what your point is. As hot water is drawn from a tank, cold water goes in and begins cooling the water that has just been heated, so a 40 gallon tank will not provide 40 gallons of 125 degree water or even 140 degree water if you turn the thermostat up for higher temp.


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## plbgbiz

I'm no engineer or scientist but I do believe the numbers from BWC are accurate.

A 25 gallon, 78K BTU model with the tempering device gets 84 gallons per hour. http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/...eets/115-B.pdf

A 75 gallon, 76K BTU model without the tempering device only gets 82 gallons per hour. http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/111-B_ICON.pdf

Maybe they lied. :whistling2:


To get the full benefit the water must be tempered at the tank.


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## plbgbiz

Plumber3653 said:


> ...Added after post: Curious, plbgbiz. As a business owner, if one of your employees were to be asked by a customer " I don't get enough hot water to suit my needs. I have a large family and run out of hot water during shower times, laundry and dishwashing. Can you do anything for me to solve this problem?" How much should your employee charge for just turning up the thermostat?...


I'm not sure what you're getting at with your question. Please be more specific. A generic "what if" question does not seem relevant to the situation described by the original poster.


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## plbgbiz

Plumber3653 said:


> ...Having a tank fire more frequently and at higher temperatures will prematurely age the tank....


BWC also provides the same warranty length for both water heaters. They are all designed to fail 2,191 days from the date of the installation.


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## Plumber3653

Oh, okay. I get it now. My mistake. If a product is under warranty then it's okay to intentionally abuse it because nobody will know. Be sure not to tell the customer that they will be without hot water and need to shut down the business for the installation (if used in a salon) and the warranty doesn't cover the labor cost. And when they ask why a new tank only a few years old failed, just tell them tat the tank was defective or something. What was I thinking. lol.
If I could only remember how much my boss told me charge them for turning up the thermostat on my first visit, maybe I could charge double for the next tank adjustment.


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## ILPlumber

I think you just want to argue. It has been splained to you in a manner a 6 year old can grasp. 

You are either: 
1.******
2. An ******x

Do I know you?


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## Plumber3653

Yes, ILPlumber. You do know me. I'm the new guy to the forum who, since joining, has found that more "professionals" enjoy beating up on weaker members, finding fault in every post, misreading posts and returning a reply in a smart-a$$ tone to belittle the next guy. I'm the new guy who enjoys helping the public and other plumbers and is baffled by the way plumbers in a forum use superstition and black magic to solve problems and try to pass it off as "professional advice". I am typically a nice guy and humble, but I've been attacked in this forum and to keep with the trend and to blend in I act as the others do. I would like to fit in, y'know. SO, SEE MY PERSONALITY AS A REFLECTION OF WHAT I HAVE SEEN SINCE JOINING THIS FORUM. If you don't like it, then maybe I can be pushed out like so many other past members have been. From what I have read, recently, that is also a trend. 
You are also unclear, as a six year old would understand. Your cutsie metaphorical and analogical method of clarity may work for you, but sometimes just spitting it out is the best way to go.
I can see that as a "moderator" in this forum that by calling people names and 'stupid' that the bar has been lowered even further by another "professional" opinion. Nice. Classy. Curious if I hit the nail on the head and you can now taste your own breath (yes, i know, very witty) and also if the dreaded "BAN" is going to click on plumber3653. But, of course, that would be a cop-out.


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## ILPlumber

No one has been pushed out. The thread you read, those members have since returned. Except one that was subsequently banned.

Now to get back on topic. 

Did you click the link plbgbiz posted? That dumbs it down pretty well. 

When you temper the hot water with cold. You will have MORE tempered hot water.

Show me a study that proves more than a miniscule rise in failures by raising the thermostat 15 degrees. 

What do you attribute the higher instance of failures to?


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## ILPlumber

FYI. I don't make a habit of going back and reading edited posts. Just make a new one. It's easier for everyone....

I'm headed to chat.


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## Plumber3653

ILPlumber, I do not doubt the info from the link. By having a high recovery tank with higher BTU output and physical design in order to produce more hot water in a shorter time frame...yes. The whole point is that by simply turning up the existing tank, you will not solve the customers problem. You can post all the links in the world showing every high recovery tank made by mankind, but the issue is still the same. I recommended a tankless and recommended not just turning up the thermostat. Read all of the words in the post, not just those you choose.


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## ILPlumber

Plumber3653 said:


> ILPlumber, I do not doubt the info from the link. By having a high recovery tank with higher BTU output and physical design in order to produce more hot water in a shorter time frame...yes. The whole point is that by simply turning up the existing tank, you will not solve the customers problem. You can post all the links in the world showing every high recovery tank made by mankind, but the issue is still the same. I recommended a tankless and recommended not just turning up the thermostat. Read all of the words in the post, not just those you choose.


True. You also have to add a tempering valve. 

If you want me to read whole posts. Don't type out a huge blob of text.


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## Plumber3653

If I have to produce literature from a documented study to show that setting high temperatures to compensate for need of more hot water will prematurely age a tank and therefore increase maintenance and increase rate of failure, then you are truly failing the the people who read these posts. You are now condoning the practice because I do not have evidence, meanwhile you also know what the effects are of the action. Shame on you. We can simply put this to rest with this:
It is not recommended to resolve the issue of not enough water volume by simply turning up the thermostat. It is recommended to have a professional examine your needs and install an appropriate appliance or modify the existing system to increase the volume (parallel tanks). By turning your tank up to compensate, you prematurely age your tank and increase the demand for maintenance.
There.


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## Plumber3653

Of course, too much text. My fault again.


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## Tommy plumber

ILPlumber said:


> I think you just want to argue. It has been splained to you in a manner a 6 year old can grasp.
> 
> You are either:
> 1.******
> 2. An *********
> 
> Do I know you?


 



I believe name calling is against the rules. I cannot imagine a school teacher calling a child a name because the child doesn't understand something. Perhaps our colleague isn't understanding a point and just needs clarification.


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## Redwood

If they have 208V/3 phase why are you playing around?:whistling2:

That EEMax idea has all the power of a fart in a hurricane!
Figure they are probably seeing incoming water temps in the 35 degree F range right now...

How does that thing handle a 80 degree temperature rise?
How many gpm is it?
Yea it will temper an eyewash.... :laughing:

They need a real commercial water heater! Why play around?
This puppy will give them up to 418 GPH recovery with an 80 degree rise...
How much do they need?
http://bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/430.pdf


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## plbgbiz

Plumber3653 said:


> ...I am typically a nice guy and humble, but I've been attacked in this forum...


This was very evident when you attacked my integrity as a plumber and business owner. Very humble indeed.

As politely as a keyboard will allow, I pointed out that I disagree with you. Welcome to the real world. Sometimes plumbers don't agree. So teach me specifically how a tempering valve does not increase available gallons of hot water. Prove your point with facts rather than sarcasm.


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## ILPlumber

Tommy plumber said:


> I believe name calling is against the rules. I cannot imagine a school teacher calling a child a name because the child doesn't understand something. Perhaps our colleague isn't understanding a point and just needs clarification.


I apologize Tommy. You are right. 

As far as not understanding or just needing clarification. It is crystal clear. I tend to get frustrated when I know in my gut someone is just jerking our chain.

I'll edit my post.


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## ILPlumber

Plumber3653 said:


> If I have to produce literature from a documented study to show that setting high temperatures to compensate for need of more hot water will prematurely age a tank and therefore increase maintenance and increase rate of failure, then you are truly failing the the people who read these posts.
> 
> You are now condoning the practice because I do not have evidence, meanwhile you also know what the effects are of the action. Shame on you.
> 
> We can simply put this to rest with this:
> It is not recommended to resolve the issue of not enough water volume by simply turning up the thermostat.
> 
> It is recommended to have a professional examine your needs and install an appropriate appliance or modify the existing system to increase the volume (parallel tanks).
> 
> By turning your tank up to compensate, you prematurely age your tank and increase the demand for maintenance.
> There.


 
You don't understand. You prolly never will. 

OR

You just want to argue. 

No one is taking the approach of turning up the t-stat and subsequently saying "There, all fixed"


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## breid1903

biz. i can't find an electric with the same recovery as the hp gas. the hp is basically a 75 gal but with 25 gal of water. it's input is actually 2.000.btu higher than other. show us this with electric, please. breid...............:rockon:


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## breid1903

part of the problem is we don't have a clue how much water they need. they have 3 phase. why ain't there a comm heater in there? i don't know if that will handle the load but my guess is that it will. somebody cheap the job? breid..........:rockon:


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## RealLivePlumber

Those E Max's are worthless .

I have one in my garage for a handwashing sink. 

I could pee hotter and with more volume than that thing puts out.

It would never produce enough voulme or temp to get the soap out of someones hair. 

especially Brooke Shields.


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## plbgbiz

breid1903 said:


> biz. i can't find an electric with the same recovery as the hp gas. the hp is basically a 75 gal but with 25 gal of water. it's input is actually 2.000.btu higher than other. show us this with electric, please. breid...............:rockon:


On the link posted by Redwood, the BWC spec sheet shows they can get 371 GPH with 90 degree rise. This of course depends on a whale of an electrical supply I suppose.

I wasn't trying to compare electric recovery to gas, only that it is possible to significantly increase the GPH of a water heater by the use of a higher temperature in conjunction with a properly installed tempering device.


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## ZeePlumber

Hey not trying to start any problems here on this thread, but I did see some may be unaware that there are indeed two types of electric hot water heaters. 
Simultaneous and Non-Simultaneous. 
Here is a link, most manufactures have both types.
The answer is under General Questions. 
http://www.rheem.co.nz/faqs/action/listall/

 WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SIMULTANEOUS AND NON – SIMULTANEOUS? Open/Close 
The difference between simultaneous and non simultaneous operation in regards to a twin element cylinder is that a simultaneous cylinder has both elements operating at the same time (wired together), non simultaneous has two elements which do not operate at the same time e.g. one thermostat can be wired directly to the standard day rate supply, whilst the second is wired to an overnight tariff ripple control supply (discounted rate).
I am not going anywhere near the whole tempering convo....... LOL


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## Redwood

ZeePlumber said:


> Hey not trying to start any problems here on this thread, but I did see some may be unaware that there are indeed two types of electric hot water heaters.
> Simultaneous and Non-Simultaneous.


I think most here are aware if simultaneous operation....
That link I posted was for a water heater that could fire up to 6 elements in simultaneous operation which is why it makes a lot of hot water...:yes:

There are times you can get away with putting a residential water heater in a commercial building....

But in a hair salon telling the customer, "I'm sorry, the color is going to be a little off... We have to leave that hair dye in your hair a little longer while we wait for the water heater to catch up." Is just not an option! :laughing:


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## ZeePlumber

Redwood said:


> I think most here are aware if simultaneous operation....
> That link I posted was for a water heater that could fire up to 6 elements in simultaneous operation which is why it makes a lot of hot water...:yes:
> 
> There are times you can get away with putting a residential water heater in a commercial building....
> 
> But in a hair salon telling the customer, "I'm sorry, the color is going to be a little off... We have to leave that hair dye in your hair a little longer while we wait for the water heater to catch up." Is just not an option! :laughing:


I am not sure what you mean by residential in a commercial building. The warranty is the only difference between a commercial and residential WH's. What I mean by that is, WH are sized on the peak demand for water in the building (space). The manufacturer says what recovery rate is and has nothing to do with "commercial" or "residential", if it fits the demand, next is the warranty. Commercial warranty or residential. Big price difference. Similar useful life depending on the application and tank lining and insulation. However a hair salon has a moderate water demand depending on the water supply fixture units. 

I would however, like to tell the owner please wait 15 more minutes before your next customer, so the tank can recover. Imagine that.:laughing:

Non simultaneous and simultaneous are neither commercial or resi, just a function of how they operate.
Maybe I misunderstood you?
-Cheers.


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## Redwood

ZeePlumber said:


> I am not sure what you mean by residential in a commercial building. The warranty is the only difference between a commercial and residential WH's.


Click on the link i put up earlier and tell me how well that will do going into a residential building...:blink:

Last I knew 208/277/480 volt, 3 phase was fairly non existant in residential...:whistling2:

http://bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/430-B.pdf


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## ZeePlumber

Hey Redwood, if I offended you that wasnt my intent.

I didnt address the wiring, because that was a given. There are so many different configurations for suppyling hotwater. Of course you aren't gonna install a three phase 
HW heater at a residence, but you may be able to install a single phase HWH in a commercial building like you said already.:yes:

-Cheers.


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## Redwood

ZeePlumber said:


> Hey Redwood, if I offended you that wasnt my intent.
> 
> I didnt address the wiring, because that was a given. There are so many different configurations for suppyling hotwater. Of course you aren't gonna install a three phase
> HW heater at a residence, but you may be able to install a single phase HWH in a commercial building like you said already.:yes:
> 
> -Cheers.


No Offense Taken! :thumbup:

But there is a difference between residential/light duty commercial, and commercial...


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