# Sloan valve problem



## sikxsevn

Here's one to rack your brains over guys and gals. The urinal in the bathroom at our shop isn't flushing right, we've rebuilt it a couple times, but it either won't even flush at all, or if it does it only runs for half a second or so before shutting off. I've tried a few different diaphragms, thinking I may have had the wrong one installed, but no dice. 

The water line overhead running to the bathroom group is undersized, 3/4" to supply 4 lavs, 3 tank toilets, a urinal, an on the other side of the wall from the bathroom group, a drop for the HWT and a kitchen sink in the break room. 

Incoming water pressure(at the boiler drain on the HWT) is 63 psi, until you flush the urinal. The gauge drops all the way to 0 psi, so fast you can hear the needle hit the peg. 

I'm thinking the line is substantially undersized, we aren't interested in upsizing/replacing the water line, and a waterless urinal is out of the question. 

Anyone have any possible solutions?

Sent from my iPhon


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## user2090

Find out why there is such a sudden drop in pressure, as that is what is really the problem. Is your shop on a well? Has the problem always existed? 

Put in a piston operated flush valve that can operate at lower pressures.


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## sikxsevn

We're on city domestic water, in a strip mall(that's what we call these lease spaces around here) the main water service through the building is 1 1/2". Also, the 3/4" run is about 40 feet lomg

The problem has been in place since we moved in about 6 months ago


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## 504Plumber

sikxsevn said:


> We're on city domestic water, in a strip mall(that's what we call these lease spaces around here) the main water service through the building is 1 1/2". Also, the 3/4" run is about 40 feet lomg
> 
> The problem has been in place since we moved in about 6 months ago


Change the Sloan valve to a self closing valve. Have to hold the handle open for a few seconds but they don't need a big line to operate.


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## user2090

sikxsevn said:


> We're on city domestic water, in a strip mall(that's what we call these lease spaces around here) the main water service through the building is 1 1/2". Also, the 3/4" run is about 40 feet lomg
> 
> The problem has been in place since we moved in about 6 months ago



Then I stick with my original statement about using a piston operated flush valve. Unless you want to correct that piping. Still it sounds like something else is going on, as a 1/1/2" line should be plenty.


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## sikxsevn

504Plumber said:


> Change the Sloan valve to a self closing valve. Have to hold the handle open for a few seconds but they don't need a big line to operate.


I don't think something that you have to hold the handle open or a few seconds in order for it to flush, is going to be a viable solution, our guys aren't gonna hold the handle open. They'll just try and flush like normal, and when it doesn't work as expected, "it no workie, somebody call a plumber."

Yes, a shop full of plumbers and I'm the only one here that can work a Sloan valve.

But I'm still taking the bait here, any specific model self closing valve, or piston valve?


I do agree that there is something more at play here than undersized lines, but it certainly isn't helping either. It could be possible that there's a valve somewhere that isnt open all the way. Maybe in a bit I'll go door to door and check to see how the urinals are flushing at other businesses.

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## MarkToo

The 3/4 line serving all those fixtures doesn't matter if your problem exists regardless of whether other fixtures are in use or not.

This may sound simple but, have you throttled down the stop to see where the sweet spot is?


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## sikxsevn

MarkToo said:


> The 3/4 line serving all those fixtures doesn't matter if your problem exists regardless of whether other fixtures are in use or not.
> 
> This may sound simple but, have you throttled down the stop to see where the sweet spot is?


I see what your getting at, I played with the (new) stop a bit to try an find the sweet spot, there isn't one. There's a running water sound throughout the building when you flush the urinal, it's loudest at the 6gal HWT. The water lines in the building are not insulated(yes I know they should be.). When the valve is closed on the HWT the running water sound persists

Sent from my iPhon


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## Widdershins

sikxsevn said:


> I see what your getting at, I played with the (new) stop a bit to try an find the sweet spot, there isn't one. There's a running water sound throughout the building when you flush the urinal, it's loudest at the 6gal HWT. The water lines in the building are not insulated(yes I know they should be.). When the valve is closed on the HWT the running water sound persists
> 
> Sent from my iPhon


Sounds like you aren't getting enough volume.

My guess would be a gate valve that isn't open all the way.


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## drain surgeon

If your saying that you still hear water running in the pipes after the valves are closed it sounds to me like you have a leak somewhere. Do you pay the water bill and if so has it gone up recently? do you have access to the meter to check the witness dial?
That said I have had a couple of sloan valves that still did not work properly after a complete rebuild so I installed a whole new valve and no more problem.


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## Titan Plumbing

Are the vent slots on the flushtube where the vacuum breaker fits...open or are they all crusted up with calcium? Does it make a squeal when it shuts off?


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## HOMER

sikxsevn said:


> Here's one to rack your brains over guys and gals. The urinal in the bathroom at our shop isn't flushing right, we've rebuilt it a couple times, but it either won't even flush at all, or if it does it only runs for half a second or so before shutting off. I've tried a few different diaphragms, thinking I may have had the wrong one installed, but no dice.
> 
> The water line overhead running to the bathroom group is undersized, 3/4" to supply 4 lavs, 3 tank toilets, a urinal, an on the other side of the wall from the bathroom group, a drop for the HWT and a kitchen sink in the break room.
> 
> Incoming water pressure(at the boiler drain on the HWT) is 63 psi, until you flush the urinal. The gauge drops all the way to 0 psi, so fast you can hear the needle hit the peg.
> 
> I'm thinking the line is substantially undersized, we aren't interested in upsizing/replacing the water line, and a waterless urinal is out of the question.
> 
> Anyone have any possible solutions?
> 
> Sent from my iPhon


Have you changed the handle ?
defective handle sometimes won't tip the diaphragm enough to catch and hold open


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## DesertOkie

If you can hear water in the pipes after the fact, I think it points to what shinns said a gate valve almost shut somewhere or broken in the down position. If it eventually builds pressure but looses it quickly thats another sign. 

I had the same problem at a power plant. Dumb [email protected]@ painters were tired of the old azz gate valve leaking so they turned it off. Trace them there pipes.


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## Downthepipe

I concur with desert okie 
The pressure drop is too significant 
B-box may be only partially open
Obstruction in water meter
Any valve in cold water system could be closed or blocked
Where 1-1/2" reduces to 3/4" could have blockage 
Or lastly the stop valve is blocked but you stated it was replaced
However the sound of running water indicates the problem lies near the origin I.e. B-box or meter valves


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## user7551

I have seen teflon tape that was wrapped around the opening on the marvel adapter that has caused this problem before other than that sounds like a volume problem . Possible blockage in the flush valve stop ?


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## Piper34

My money is on bad volume(valve,meter ect.) good luck🚽


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## Widdershins

playme1979 said:


> I have seen teflon tape that was wrapped around the opening on the marvel adapter that has caused this problem before other than that sounds like a volume problem . Possible blockage in the flush valve stop ?


We went in behind a failed Plumbing Contractor and trimmed out a Starbucks about 12 years ago with a similar issue to the OP's. I took off the Flushometer stop and ran an electricians fish tape up the tubing and hit an obstruction after about 20 feet.

I measured it up and found a tee in the dropped ceiling. When I cut the tee out I discovered that somebody had jammed the tubing past the stop in tee and partially blocked the feed. It would allow pressure to build up, but it wouldn't pass much through in the way of volume.


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## DesertOkie

Widdershins said:


> We went in behind a failed Plumbing Contractor and trimmed out a Starbucks about 12 years ago with a similar issue to the OP's. I took off the Flushometer stop and ran an electricians fish tape up the tubing and hit an obstruction after about 20 feet.
> 
> I measured it up and found a tee in the dropped ceiling. When I cut the tee out I discovered that somebody had jammed the tubing past the stop in tee and partially blocked the feed. It would allow pressure to build up, but it wouldn't pass much through in the way of volume.



Reminds me of the grass I found growing in a pipe. Some flushometers were not working.
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/strangest-thing-i-have-ever-seen-water-pipe-14467/


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Check the Sloan stop! Does it drip when you turn it off! You can take out the plunger but leave the diaphram turn water back on and see if you get good flow if so it's the valve it self if not maybe install a vacuum breaker in the line


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## Widdershins

DesertOkie said:


> Reminds me of the grass I found growing in a pipe. Some flushometers were not working.
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/strangest-thing-i-have-ever-seen-water-pipe-14467/


My first thought was milfoil or one of its aquarium cousin's when I saw that back in July.


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## DesertOkie

Widdershins said:


> My first thought was milfoil or one of its aquarium cousin's when I saw that back in July.



That makes sense. For some reason I never thought about water plants in the desert.:laughing:


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## PlumberDave

PRV failed, Strainer plugged or a mostly closed valve in the line. Pressure drop to 0 is the symptom to follow.


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## sloan_valve

*What is the flush volume?*

sikxsevn - I'd like to say thank you first and foremost for seeking help. I have a few questions along with options to try following the questions.

What is the flush volume of your flushometer? I know you have said that you have tried different diaphragms but it may be the flush volume is too high and a lower flush volume diaphragm may need to be installed.

How old is your flushometer and how often is the flushometer use? Since you have noted that you have changed the type of diaphragm I'm going to say if it is an older valve it may be the handle assembly is damaged. You can either replace the (B-73-A) handle or repair it with (B-51-A) handle repair kit.

If either of these options still do not work please call our Technical Support line here at Sloan at 888-SLOAN-14 (888-756-2614) and one of our technicians can dig deeper into the cause of the short flush and work on getting you the parts you need.


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## DesertOkie

Soooooooooooooo did ya find out what was wrong?


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## Donahue756

Am with plumberdave prv most likely


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## vinpadalino

Those Sloan valves need the correct water pressure and volume to work, very sensitive. 
A McDonald store I do work for has horrible water. The filters have to be changed daily. If they dont keep up on the filters all the Sloan valve's act up.
Fix the water problem and you'll fix the Sloan valve.


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