# Installing for big boxes



## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Who are these guys getting to install all these plumbing items? WH's and such....this is something I have never looked in to, but have heard to stay away from by the old timers. Heard you really get ripped.


----------



## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

The way I figure it, working for the big box stores is very similar to working as an employee for another company. You are asking somebody else to handle all the marketing, pricing, and most of the customer service. 

If you are capable of running and marketing a business on your own you should be able to make way more money. Not to mention build a customer base.


----------



## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

you get ripped on some items or some installs but it opens the door for more customers


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> The way I figure it, working for the big box stores is very similar to working as an employee for another company. You are asking somebody else to handle all the marketing, pricing, and most of the customer service.
> 
> If you are capable of running and marketing a business on your own you should be able to make way more money. Not to mention build a customer base.


I looked into it years back, never bothered.

You're responsible for your own overhead, permits fee's, time, liability and insurance, the B-box is kind enough to let you do the work at their rate.

The single advantage is this -



revenge said:


> .... but it opens the door for more customers


----------



## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

i think that's what they told me too.....you do it for next to nothing, and have to JUMP when they call you for a same day install......NOT.


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

revenge said:


> you get ripped on some items or some installs but it opens the door for more customers


I looked into it about 2 years ago when I wasn't sure if I was going to make it. My thought was it would get my van into neighborhoods and into potential customer's homes. I know you don't make money doing them but I thought it'd be cheaper than dumping money on the phone books. I never really pursued it once I started getting more work.





Paul


----------



## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

its not all that bad usualy its a basic install like in and out water heater faucet g.d what ever if you have to do any add. work its done by work order then you can give it to them. like you remove a toilet and the flange is shot then you repair at your rate and big box store gives their mark up and your done or you wait for them to screw up on something other installers whatever and you give it to them you can make slow nickels everyday but at the end of the week it adds up. would be good for bigger companys rather than one man, woman shops do to the people you can dispose of to do the jumping when they want it now, also like i said with the amount of customers they throw at you you do get alot of call backs from them if they like your work we get like 10 to 20 customers a month that we got from the big box stores calling us and do become regular customer so at the end believe it or not it pays off. you have to have good insurence though


----------



## Dan (Nov 29, 2011)

We were approached by best buy. If i remember right, you had to go to bb get, for example, a dishwasher, take it to ho house, install and return old one to bb for like $150. They said we would make out because if the dw needs leveling, or any repiping we could charge the ho extra. In my mind, that is a good way to leave a bad first impression because it felt like we were going into it looking for a way to squeeze the ho who thought installation was already paid for.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

You could look at it like a 'loss leader'; that's where stores will sell an item at a loss or for no profit, but that item gets people in the doors spending money on other more profitable items. Restaurants will do this also. An example would be $ 1.00 bottles of beer, that doesn't make the restaurant much money, but it will draw people in like flies at a picnic.

So you could do work for the big box bullies, in hopes of getting future work from the original homeowner and their neighbors.


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> I looked into it years back, never bothered.
> 
> You're responsible for your own overhead, permits fee's, time, liability and insurance, the B-box is kind enough to let you do the work at their rate.
> 
> The single advantage is this -


One company I worked for picked up doing installs for H.D., but it only lasted a short time. H.D. subs to a paper contractor, who then subs to the actual installer. A $279.00 water heater install ends up being a $180.00 install. 

As for the customers, the ones we did work for were straight up price shoppers who chose the H.D. because it had the cheapest "Professional" install possible. 

It does put some coin in your pocket, but as for being worth it, that is debatable. 

Main reason I won't so it is the low pay and the 30 radius the stores have,


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Indie said:


> One company I worked for picked up doing installs for H.D., but it only lasted a short time. H.D. subs to a paper contractor, who then subs to the actual installer. A $279.00 water heater install ends up being a $180.00 install.
> 
> As for the customers, the ones we did work for were straight up price shoppers who chose the H.D. because it had the cheapest "Professional" install possible.
> 
> ...


This topic right here is at the root of my dissension for corporate influence over regulation.

As HD has absolutely swallowed market share for suppliers to the extent they have maxed their share, they start to look at market share in other venue's to maintain earnings growth, that leaves the trades as the next likely target, in turn, we can "sub" from them at rates that make it pointless to be self-employed.

We've been invited to dinner and we're on the menu.


----------



## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

In Dallas Lowes wants you to sign over Power of Attorney to them, and I from what I know more than likely they will file a claim against your insurance for any mistakes.

If you are installing water heaters for lowes, you must go to the store in which the customer paid for the water heater and pick it up there and deliver and install at customers house. 

Only way to make money is upsale like a mofo


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*worse than hell itself*

I worked for Lowes back in 2001...for about 6 months and then I could not gag on the taste 
any longer....

I found that I did not like licking
someones a-hole to make them happy... 
it leaves a very sour taste that does not go away quickly...

you end up spending more than an hour in will call to pick up a water heater,,, then it ends up to be the wrong size for the job, or worse yet the home-owner LIES and or does not mention to Lowes that you have to remove a washing machine and a water softener to get to the water heater...... 

if you dont want to lick that customers a--hole to please them and do all that work for free, then LOWES apologizes to them for their troubles because the customer is always right.... you drag the heater back to LOWES ... and also you dont get paid a cent 


and Lowes considers you the bad guy for not takeing one for the team and losing that sale for them...


I would not recommend it , the customers are the lowest cheap asses you will ever meet and they will bust your chops cause your are a sub to lowes......


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

How Lowes can you go

I could never bring myself to the point of doing work any of them.... Sears, HD or Lowes

Sent from my miniature laptop


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> I worked for Lowes back in 2001...for about 6 months and then I could not gag on the taste
> any longer....
> 
> I found that I did not like licking
> ...


 






Thanks for the insight. I have never worked for big box. From your experience, it seems like it's a losing proposition to work for big box stores. Thanks again for the post.......


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

TallCoolOne said:


> In Dallas Lowes wants you to sign over Power of Attorney to them, and I from what I know more than likely they will file a claim against your insurance for any mistakes.
> 
> If you are installing water heaters for lowes, you must go to the store in which the customer paid for the water heater and pick it up there and deliver and install at customers house.
> 
> *Only way to make money is upsale like a mofo*


I've used this when "pitching" a customer against his considering an HD install.

Had another call me because the last plumber, an HD sub, asserted his home was unsafe if he didn't allow him to make some additional "necessary" repairs.

I treat customers the way I want my mechanic to treat me, I don't expect him to work for dirt, but he knows I'm not stupid enough to buy an air filter for $95 because my car will die without it.

He, in turn, gets my business, my friends and family.


----------



## Dan (Nov 29, 2011)

Has anyone ever invited them over for a free hvac consultation? We were debating having one of the techs do this for us to see what their prices and sales pitch are like. We anticipate going up against them as we expand our hvac work.


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> This topic right here is at the root of my dissension for corporate influence over regulation.
> 
> As HD has absolutely swallowed market share for suppliers to the extent they have maxed their share, they start to look at market share in other venue's to maintain earnings growth, that leaves the trades as the next likely target, in turn, we can "sub" from them at rates that make it pointless to be self-employed.
> 
> We've been invited to dinner and we're on the menu.


We are in total agreement. I'd rather do home warranty. At least they let you make a little money. Not that I'm doing those, but have, and made alright. 

Each offers the opportunity for growing a customer base at a lesser rate that what it costs to gain a new one. If there worth having? 

My local big box have a hard time keeping subs.


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Dan said:


> Has anyone ever invited them over for a free hvac consultation? We were debating having one of the techs do this for us to see what their prices and sales pitch are like. We anticipate going up against them as we expand our hvac work.


That is a whole different arena. The licensing and liability makes big box here go nuts. The subs go in and shoot high lose the job, then I suspect they do the ole switch-a-roo. You know call the shop direct and we can do it for less. 

I've never heard of anyone around here buying a HVAC system through HD, and I have friends there.


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Indie said:


> We are in total agreement. I'd rather do home warranty. At least they let you make a little money. Not that I'm doing those, but have, and made alright.
> 
> Each offers the opportunity for growing a customer base at a lesser rate that what it costs to gain a new one. If there worth having?
> 
> My local big box have a hard time keeping subs.


Hopefully you understand the link, 

Blindly eliminating regulations, or turning a blind eye to money's influence over government under the guise that all corporate profit is good profit.

Ask yourself what stands between your license and HD or Lowes lobbying elected officials to deregulate the requirement to have a license to allow them to do the work in place of you.

I don't endorse unnecessary licensing, but I also don't endorse the idea that for-profit entities ought be influencing regulation to suit their profits vs public welfare.


----------



## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I looked into it and it is a loss for you no matter how you look at it. Lowes and the customer are always right, you get screwed going to pick up the water heater, bring it to the home owners house, install the new one, haul off the old, all for around 120 bucks. No thanks. If you try to up sale your a crook in the homeowners eyes and they will never use you again and they will bash you to there friends because you tried to "up sale" them when lowes told them it would be X amount of dollars. I'd rather sit and do nothing than work for lowes.


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> This topic right here is at the root of my dissension for corporate influence over regulation.
> 
> As HD has absolutely swallowed market share for suppliers to the extent they have maxed their share, they start to look at market share in other venue's to maintain earnings growth, that leaves the trades as the next likely target, in turn, we can "sub" from them at rates that make it pointless to be self-employed.
> 
> We've been invited to dinner and we're on the menu.


I've been procrastinating about taking my Master's exam and still work for others, so I can't speak as a shop owner on this.

What I can say is that in the distant past I once worked for Lowes for about a year and I think I can verify Grumpy's take on it.


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> Hopefully you understand the link,
> 
> Blindly eliminating regulations, or turning a blind eye to money's influence over government under the guise that all corporate profit is good profit.
> 
> ...


No doubt I see it. 

The only thing stopping then from deregulating is the politicians. As I said we agree on that. It's BS that a big corporation like that could do licensed work. 

It's no different than the water conditioning industry getting them selves written out of Indiana plumbing code. Proof politicians wallets make decisions. 

Much like utilities being able to do what they want. When they have a unfair advantage, there can be no fairness.


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Full circle to "Corporations are people".

I'd love to hear Deerslayer's take on this, I am NOT being sardonic.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Things not talked about. Home center sells the wrong product you run it back and have to reschedule for a measly charge for the mistake. Sell a 40 gallon tall and a short heater is needed it costs you to run for it.

Getting your foot inside a potential new customer’s home to do what, install products that home centers sell to the customer. Without proper training it is difficult to upsell once the home center has the customer thinking cheapest is best. When you are properly trained to upsell there is no need for home center installs. Typically home centers do not send the same plumbing company to the same customer. The chances of you servicing a customer more than once are slim through home centers. They set your price.

When we worked for the home centers especially on kitchen replacements frequently they would sell granite tops with deeper sinks and the drain arm was too high. Now it becomes a bidding war between you and the other installers.


----------



## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

My market may b different.
I have mulled over the h.d. installs over and over.
I do them in conjunction with a gc that i do pots of work outside of hd as well.

The big box needs training to.
Maybe they ticked every other plumber in town off, or nobody tried. I negotiated a higher price. Not a greAt del more, but a little. I also call each customer first and ask them the basic questions i ask all of my customers. This lets me know if there r any upcharges that should b added before going out. I used to discuss this with the homeowner and talk them through it. They however directed there dissappointment to hd when it was explained these are not my charges but are hd policy. Mgt now pays extras w/o charging the customer. I am sure this will cost somebody there job. If the wrong size wh is sold or a return trip needed i get 50.00.not great but not bad. I call 20min before wh is to b picked up and it is ready at the service desk, they know if it not ready i leace and it doesn,t get put in that day.

As for promptness i offer my customers prompt service anyway. If they call before noon the wh gets installed that day if after noon it costs more.

I have not had a customer go back to the big box for services, they call us direct.


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> Full circle to "Corporations are people".
> 
> I'd love to hear Deerslayer's take on this, I am NOT being sardonic.



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :laughing:


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Who are these guys getting to install all these plumbing items? WH's and such....this is something I have never looked in to, but have heard to stay away from by the old timers. Heard you really get ripped.


 Flushometers?


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> How Lowes can you go
> 
> I could never bring myself to the point of doing work any of them.... Sears, HD or Lowes
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


 Menards stores have a totally different way of doing business with contractors, they let you leave ur business cards in their folder.. customer picked them out and make the call to the contractors.. no string attached with Menards, however, when Menards get complains from customers about the contractors, they yanked the business cards out. That's it...


----------



## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

In Dallas if you want to install water heaters for Home Depot you contact Olshan Foundation which own Olshan Plumbing, Btw Olshan Foundation is one of the biggest scammers in the Foundation Business in Dallas.

But you can call Olshan and they will sub out water heaters to you if you are hurting for work or business in our area, I have no clue what they pay


----------



## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

TallCoolOne said:


> In Dallas if you want to install water heaters for Home Depot you contact Olshan Foundation which own Olshan Plumbing, Btw Olshan Foundation is one of the biggest scammers in the Foundation Business in Dallas.
> 
> But you can call Olshan and they will sub out water heaters to you if you are hurting for work or business in our area, I have no clue what they pay


Oh, I could ballpark it, just take a crappy price & skim 20% for the middleman.


----------

