# Hand held snake



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

The other day I get a call for a blocked toilet... I pass the toilet auger through and it is still blocked.... I ran the sink and the water comes up in the toilet.... the shower had no water coming up in it..

So I go down into the basement and there is cast Iron up in the ceiling with an end clean out..

I wasn't going to open that clean and have crap shooting out of the cap.

So I go back to the washroom and pass the hand held auger through basin drain.... 20 ft and it is still blocked....

It was the end of the day and I really didn't want to pull the toilet either as the water was right up to the rim....

So I went to the truck and got a piece of 1 1/2" ABS and placed that all the way into the bowl of the toilet and passed the hand held auger through the ABS pipe not to scratch the toilet...

To my amazement the snake went right through the toilet and unblocked the drain and not even one scratch in the bowl..

I think I will throw out my toilet auger and just do this from now on.


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## Evolve (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks for the tip. I will definitely keep that in mind.
Those super-vee's are great.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

They make a tube looking devise to prevent augers from scratching the bowl, bet it would work for that application as well. I can't remember the name of it, but someone will.


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## Pipecommandor (Apr 18, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> They make a tube looking devise to prevent augers from scratching the bowl, bet it would work for that application as well. I can't remember the name of it, but someone will.


We just use about a 2' piece of heater hose, works great, haven't scratched one yet !!


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

I would guess you would have to run it through the toilet slow so the cable doesn't whip a crack in the porcelain, yes? Not a bad idea, I've inadvertently unstopped a main with my super-vee through a tub, HO couldn't figure out why there was tampons down the tub drain :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Not the best idea as that lil wimpy thing may not fare well in the big pipe...

Are you sure the line got cleaned and you didn't just pop a small hole in it?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Not the best idea as that lil wimpy thing may not fare well in the big pipe...
> 
> Are you sure the line got cleaned and you didn't just pop a small hole in it?


Sure as hell it is clear..

After I unblock a toilet I throw a ton of paper and flush it several times just to make sure... I really hate call backs....


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## sfplumbing (May 10, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Not the best idea as that lil wimpy thing may not fare well in the big pipe...
> 
> Are you sure the line got cleaned and you didn't just pop a small hole in it?


 What size cable did u use to unblock sewer line?Sounds like u should of pulled toilet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:no:


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## sfplumbing (May 10, 2011)

I've seen this done 2 many times. Temporary fix,wrong tools equals call backs.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

sfplumbing said:


> I've seen this done 2 many times. Temporary fix,wrong tools equals call backs.


Well lets see... did I get a call back ... NO

did I check to make sure it was unblocked ... Yes

and how have you seen this done 2 many times..... You are saying you seen some one unblock a toilet with a hand held auger???

Now that I highly doubt


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Well lets see... did I get a call back ... NO
> 
> did I check to make sure it was unblocked ... Yes
> 
> ...


I've seen plenty of guys land callbacks doing just that...

or, 

Cleaning a main drain from a bathtub... :blink:


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## sfplumbing (May 10, 2011)

I've seen for example also using 1/4" drain cable in a 1 1/2" kitchen sink drain and 2 weeks coming back on a call back. Its just (poking a hole in drain) doesn't work..


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

sfplumbing said:


> I've seen for example also using 1/4" drain cable in a 1 1/2" kitchen sink drain and 2 weeks coming back on a call back. Its just (poking a hole in drain) doesn't work..


does if you do it right. water is key to cleaning a drain.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I've seen plenty of guys land callbacks doing just that...
> 
> or,
> 
> Cleaning a main drain from a bathtub... :blink:


I said I did it inadvertently, never ran a small cable intending to unstop a main, the toilet seemed like it flushing fine. It was the toilet in the second bath that was stopped up, I figured it was in the bowl, decided to unstop the tub first when it cleared both. Never got a call back on that one either.


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

We have the opposite problem at the company I work for. We have a guy, Jason who tried to clean a main line from a floor drain in a basement, he took out the 1 1/2" c/o plug and stuck in 7/8" cable for a ridgid 1500. Cable got stuck trying to pull back. The main line seemed open so he cut the cable and left it, yes I know what a genius. Of course the main line wasn't open and I had to go clean up his mess. The HO broke up the floor for us to get to the pipe, the funny thing is when I got there I found 4" c/o all of three feet away from the floor drain. We cut open the main line, got a couple feet out and worked it like hell with the machine, got nowhere. Finally we put a rope on the cable and five of us pulled on it from about 20' feet away. Pulled out a massive root ball. I'd like to have seen how he was gonna pull out that root ball through an 1 1/2" hole, or anything for that matter that would clog a 4" line.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Redwood said:


> I've seen plenty of guys land callbacks doing just that...
> 
> or,
> 
> Cleaning a main drain from a bathtub... :blink:


So u are also saying u seen a guy unblock a toilet using a hand held power auger..... In all my years... this is the first time ... I have ever done it..

I always though it may crack the toilet... on that day however... it was the end of the day and I was in no mood to having a mess on my hands.

So what if the toilet broke.... I would just go buy them a new one....


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## plumbtastic (Apr 27, 2011)

It all depends on what is causing the problem. If its a build up of wet wipes or tampons or even possibly dental floss a hand held auger will work fine possibly. You just looking for somthing to break the stoppage up so it can flush out. The real fix is the users not flushing things they should throw in the garbage.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

They already make a tool to use to use a pistol rod in a water closet. Its more as a closet auger, than to clear the main.

I have had jobs where pulling the water closet was not an option due to making a huge mess, so I have rodded from the lav sink to get the line open. Once it was flowing I pulled the water closet and rodded with the proper sized machine and cable to ensure a proper cleaning.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Some times you have to McGiver something to get the job done...

Nice to know... they actually made an attachment 

really I would love to use my K1500 on every drain but we all know it just wont go in


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Some times you have to McGiver something to get the job done...
> 
> Nice to know... they actually made an attachment
> 
> really I would love to use my K1500 on every drain but we all know it just wont go in


Is McGiver canadian for MacGyver? Lol


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> Is McGiver canadian for MacGyver? Lol


McGiver was the original inventor of odd stuff... MacGyver was the TV version of that famous fellow..

You better start learning your history


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> McGiver was the original inventor of odd stuff... MacGyver was the TV version of that famous fellow..
> 
> You better start learning your history


I'm a youngin, MacGyver is all I know OS. Haha


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)




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## Pipecommandor (Apr 18, 2011)

sfplumbing said:


> I've seen for example also using 1/4" drain cable in a 1 1/2" kitchen sink drain and 2 weeks coming back on a call back. Its just (poking a hole in drain) doesn't work..


9 outta 10 times a 1/4" auger will clean out a kitchen sink drain line just fine, the auger head slaps around scraping the walls of the pipe. If you only poked a 1/4" hole in the clog then it's usually a bad grease clog and a careless plumber not doing his job. :whistling


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## sfplumbing (May 10, 2011)

Pipecommandor said:


> 9 outta 10 times a 1/4" auger will clean out a kitchen sink drain line just fine, the auger head slaps around scraping the walls of the pipe. If you only poked a 1/4" hole in the clog then it's usually a bad grease clog and a careless plumber not doing his job. :whistling


We do alot of kitchen sink drains out here that are galvi and cast iron which have much rust and very hard sludge,buildup,but i would have to agree with u if your into pvc.....


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## FEDguy (May 19, 2010)

*General sells the toilet attachment for the super vee*

General offers the super vee closet auger attachment. I've seen it on their website.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Pipecommandor said:


> 9 outta 10 times a 1/4" auger will clean out a kitchen sink drain line just fine, the auger head slaps around scraping the walls of the pipe. If you only poked a 1/4" hole in the clog then it's usually a bad grease clog and a careless plumber not doing his job. :whistling


All we use for k.s. is a 1/4" cable, an a lot of it is in 2" cast or galvanized, rarely ever have a problem with not being able to unstop, hook the end of it and your good.


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## sfplumbing (May 10, 2011)

504Plumber said:


> All we use for k.s. is a 1/4" cable, an a lot of it is in 2" cast or galvanized, rarely ever have a problem with not being able to unstop, hook the end of it and your good.


i have to say nothin but 13/32 cable for us in ky.:thumbsup:


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

sfplumbing said:


> i have to say nothin but 13/32 cable for us in ky.:thumbsup:



13/32" is great, it's what I run in my Spartan 100 but it won't go through many of the 90's in the 1 1/2" galvanized lines I rod. For them I use 1/4" or 5/16" with a bulb head or J bend on the end.


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## poptop (Mar 17, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> does if you do it right. water is key to cleaning a drain.


when i rod a ks if there happens to be a c/o or a wye and dual traps ill make a 45 with the appropriate adaptor and screw it on then run my rod thru. when it starts to flow you can run water while rodding to flush it out water won't spill out as long as you dont run it to fast.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

poptop said:


> when i rod a ks if there happens to be a c/o or a wye and dual traps ill make a 45 with the appropriate adaptor and screw it on then run my rod thru. when it starts to flow you can run water while rodding to flush it out.


If ever possible I try to get head pressure on top of the clog to help clean it out more, if it's a single story house with not too steep of a roof I try to fill sink up then unstop from the top.


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## Plantificus (Sep 17, 2009)

I usually use a 3/8th cable to clear a 1 1/2 KS lines and 1/4 in for tubs and hand bowls.. sometimes the only way to get a proper cleaning on a kitchen sink line is to poke a hole in the sludge and flush with plenty of water, perhaps (carefully) with a pressure bag.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I use my Eel Model N with the 5/8 cable to clear lav sinks, bathtub, showers and kitchen sink drains. Before the Model N I used to use Spartan 100 with 13/32" cable and at times I used 1/2" cable if I know I was entering a 4" sink line.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I use 1/4" on tubs through the trap, and 3/8" on most sinks. If a sink is 2" I'll try getting the 1/2" through it, and in most cases it will go...

3" and 4" interior lines with no chance of roots I will use 1/2"

It works for me!

My 1/4" and 3/8" have never seen 3" or, 4" pipe....
I don't plan on them seeing it either....


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> I use my Eel Model N with the 5/8 cable to clear lav sinks, bathtub, showers and kitchen sink drains. Before the Model N I used to use Spartan 100 with 13/32" cable and at times I used 1/2" cable if I know I was entering a 4" sink line.


Ron the 5/8 can make it through the tub trap? sometimes I have hell getting the 1/4 make the bend


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

tungsten plumb said:


> Ron the 5/8 can make it through the tub trap? sometimes I have hell getting the 1/4 make the bend


 ! 1/2" P trap no problem. Drum traps nope it wont make the turns.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> ! 1/2" P trap no problem. Drum traps nope it wont make the turns.


Sweet :thumbup: I stil havent run across a drum trap in my neck of the woods.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

tungsten plumb said:


> Sweet :thumbup: I stil havent run across a drum trap in my neck of the woods.




Must be nice :yes:


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

AssTyme said:


> Must be nice :yes:


Yeah it is. I actually googled drum trap to see what one looked like :laughing: Glad I never ran across one of those. They look like a PITA :yes:


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

tungsten plumb said:


> Yeah it is. I actually googled drum trap to see what one looked like :laughing: Glad I never ran across one of those. They look like a PITA :yes:


They are around here, usually on a slab house they are under the tub, so for about 80% of them we can't run a cable through the outlet...


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> They are around here, usually on a slab house they are under the tub, so for about 80% of them we can't run a cable through the outlet...


So how do you go about cleaning them:blink: Do you just say the hell with it and cut them out and install a regular ptrap.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

K 39 will run through the outlet side of a drum trap, if it's not collapsed. Done it a hundred times, all though 3 inch is a little more tricky than a 4 inch for sure.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> K 39 will run through the outlet side of a drum trap, if it's not collapsed. Done it a hundred times, all though 3 inch is a little more tricky than a 4 inch for sure.


How? I'm not seeing it... :whistling2:


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> K 39 will run through the outlet side of a drum trap, if it's not collapsed. Done it a hundred times, all though 3 inch is a little more tricky than a 4 inch for sure.




You must have the magic touch :confused1:


I use my water ram but you have to be careful not to blow the lid off


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Plantificus said:


> I usually use a 3/8th cable to clear a 1 1/2 KS lines and 1/4 in for tubs and hand bowls.. sometimes the only way to get a proper cleaning on a kitchen sink line is to poke a hole in the sludge and flush with plenty of water, perhaps (carefully) with a pressure bag.



A local plumber??? here in Orlando went to unclog a kitchen drain in a 2-story house. His plan of attack was to use a blow plug on drain arm. As he's running water through plug water starts to leak from ceiling above him. He frantically runs upstairs and see's shower overflowing, run's back downstairs and shut's the water off to the plug! Yep! You guessed it, he flooded the entire downstairs when the plug popped out. He will never live it down. :no::laughing:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

It depends if its a CI long drum trap or a CI short drum trap.

The long drum trap, has an inlet on the bottom side of the trap and the outlet is on the opposite side near the top. It does not matter if the plug on this trap was plumb at the top or the bottom since the inlet and outlet come in on the sides. These ones I can make a 1/4" cable go through the trap and clear the blockage if its beyond the trap. The reason is the cable as it enters the trap it riding the wall on the opposite side and will find the outlet. Trick is to go at it slow and easy, if you go to fast you will just knot up in the trap.

















Now the short trap does matter which way it is plumbed in. If the plumb it with the plug on the top so the inlet is coming in the very bottom of the trap and the outlet is on the side, a rod will not go through. It will come in and just hit the co plug. But of they plumb it with the plug facing down, using the side pipe as the inlet, and the pipe leaving out the top as the outlet, you can get the rod to find the outlet but you have to really feel the cable and careful not to knot in the trap.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> They are around here, usually on a slab house they are under the tub, so for about 80% of them we can't run a cable through the outlet...


Really slab homes? I thought they were only allowed in accessible locations. I have seen many drum traps in pier and beam homes and between floors on multi story homes.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

The lead ones we have down here aren't piped exactly like the picture.

The inlet and outlet usually are about on the same plane. It all depends on what kind of an angle the outlet was put in when it was installed.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

You'd put a snake into a lead drum trap? :blink:

No way in hell I would...

I'll clean that line with a Sawzall....:thumbup:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I posted the pic of the lead drum trap to show what a long trap looks like. It was the clearest picture I was able to find. As to rodding lead drum traps, I avoid it like the plaque. 



Redwood said:


> You'd put a snake into a lead drum trap? :blink:
> 
> No way in hell I would...
> 
> I'll clean that line with a Sawzall....:thumbup:


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> Really slab homes? I thought they were only allowed in accessible locations. I have seen many drum traps in pier and beam homes and between floors on multi story homes.


Yep, back in the day they put them whichever way was easiest to the stack. We usually use an air compressor, block the overflow and blow them out like that. Seems to work with a lot less force than a water ram, use one of those down here and the 60 year old tub drain falls apart.

Next time I come across one in an odd spot I'll take a picture. The ones we have here the inlet comes straight up from the bottom and out the top side, any time I try with a cable it just hit the top.

The third picture sewer rat posted is what we have, except c/o plug on top.

Another edit: this thread brings to mind all of the drum traps we've had to change in a tunnel, had one a few months back with a 3" void between the concrete and c/o, I burned the lead joint out to tie in 2". When the drum trap fell that void was filled with roaches, they all fell in my lap and I screamed like a little girl lol.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Redwood said:


> You'd put a snake into a lead drum trap? :blink:
> 
> No way in hell I would...
> 
> I'll clean that line with a Sawzall....:thumbup:


You'll need a jack hammer to get them out if you come down here. I have rodded a many of them.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

All the ones that I have come across are buried in the slab, most of the time right next to the tub or a closet behind the tub. Have seen them serve a couple of showers.

I unscrew the top off of them and shop vac the water out of the trap and what is remaining in line. Run the tub or shower and verify which side the inlet is, then run the 39 through the opposite opening. 

Now if I run across one in a house off the ground then yes I cut out and replace....


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> You'll need a jack hammer to get them out if you come down here. I have rodded a many of them.


Maybe the drain opening up was the rod going through the lead...


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Maybe the drain opening up was the rod going through the lead...


Yeah your probably right.... Except for the fact if I was to drill a hole in it and the cable went through the pipe under the slab,

A) It's going to lock up
B) I'm going to be pulling back mud

So according to you I need to not attempt to rod a drum trap, just push on replacement? Not happening....


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Plumberman said:


> Yeah your probably right.... Except for the fact if I was to drill a hole in it and the cable went through the pipe under the slab,
> 
> A) It's going to lock up
> B) I'm going to be pulling back mud
> ...


Its so easy to replace down here. You can either break up the entire bathroom slab or tunnel however many feet to drum trap and stack and replace those, either should only cost a few thousand right? Seems fair to me....

What's simple in some areas, not so simple in other...


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

504Plumber said:


> Its so easy to replace down here. You can either break up the entire bathroom slab or tunnel however many feet to drum trap and stack and replace those, either should only cost a few thousand right? Seems fair to me....
> 
> What's simple in some areas, not so simple in other...


You've read my mind... Definitely


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Well we do have mostly those underground storage and equipment rooms called basements...

That makes the Sawzall cleaning very viable...


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Well we do have mostly those underground storage and equipment rooms called basements...
> 
> That makes the Sawzall cleaning very viable...


Yeah, I can count on one hand how many houses around new Orleans that have a basement. They don't work well down here, they tend to seep ground water in them when the river gets high.

Also the main reason we bury our dead above ground here, they would float out of the ground if underneath. Same for empty pools.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Basements are bad below sea level...

I have seen two in the north part of the state.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Plumberman said:


> Basements are bad below sea level...
> 
> I have seen two in the north part of the state.


We have a few repeat customers that have them, houses were built in the 1800's. One in Metairie has one but the "basement" began it's life as a bomb shelter.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

504Plumber said:


> We have a few repeat customers that have them, houses were built in the 1800's. One in Metairie has one but the "basement" began it's life as a bomb shelter.


Yeah, those could come in handy one day!


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Plumberman said:


> Yeah, those could come in handy one day!


Especially since it's the first house off of I-10 on a service road lol


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Earned my strips today. Had to run a K1500 in a downstairs apartment going behind toilet, 1 cable at a time.. 17 cables till line was cleared. There are those days I wish I had a helper when on weekend calls like that one! Anytime it gets over 12 cables I begin to wonder WTF!

Here I have to use at times a Vacuum truck to clear the grease from the lines before cables even touch them. See more grease in the lines then you would see in your fav mex-tex restaurant! 99% Mexican residents. After unstopping line be it with hand or K50 I pour 1/2 gallon of Muraitic acid down the line. Wait 2 minutes then begin to flush. *Before ya scream it'll rot CI out. It wont if its flushed thoroughly. I've been here 11 months still to this day I have not seen a single one resident place a plug into the sink to wash dishes! Most use DW to store dish's in. Down side is they read sink aerator or are told its a garbage disposal and they try to get them to eat beer cans! Pulled a remote controlled toy car out of the 6" main 2 weeks ago. I know for a fact I have 40 feet of 1500 cable with a penetrate head on the lose in the line (other plumber before me snapped it off in the line, told me about then said good luck and quit). The fun thing here is I tell everyone they send to check the CO before you send a cable in, by sticking a wood stick down it first. If you feel something besides CI Dig first! (Get beer bottles stuffed down the CO) nothing as deadly to the hands as a shard of glass wedged into a cable as your retrieving it.


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## pipe doc (Dec 26, 2010)

I use 3/8 for ks tub & lav . 11/16 on mains. jetter on every thing i can. I am thinking of getting a k60 the dm55 is sooo heavy in those basement & crawlspace c/o. using the tube from your toilet auger works great w/ 1/4 to 3/8 cable


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

shakeyglenn68 said:


> Earned my strips today. Had to run a K1500 in a downstairs apartment going behind toilet, 1 cable at a time.. 17 cables till line was cleared. There are those days I wish I had a helper when on weekend calls like that one! Anytime it gets over 12 cables I begin to wonder WTF!
> 
> Here I have to use at times a Vacuum truck to clear the grease from the lines before cables even touch them. See more grease in the lines then you would see in your fav mex-tex restaurant! 99% Mexican residents. After unstopping line be it with hand or K50* I pour 1/2 gallon of Muraitic acid down the line.* Wait 2 minutes then begin to flush. *Before ya scream it'll rot CI out. It wont if its flushed thoroughly. I've been here 11 months still to this day I have not seen a single one resident place a plug into the sink to wash dishes! Most use DW to store dish's in. Down side is they read sink aerator or are told its a garbage disposal and they try to get them to eat beer cans! Pulled a remote controlled toy car out of the 6" main 2 weeks ago. I know for a fact I have 40 feet of 1500 cable with a penetrate head on the lose in the line (other plumber before me snapped it off in the line, told me about then said good luck and quit). The fun thing here is I tell everyone they send to check the CO before you send a cable in, by sticking a wood stick down it first. If you feel something besides CI Dig first! (Get beer bottles stuffed down the CO) nothing as deadly to the hands as a shard of glass wedged into a cable as your retrieving it.


If it is grease dont use muratic acid.... use lye instead


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> If it is grease dont use muratic acid.... use lye instead


 
My granny used to mix them ingredients. :thumbsup:


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