# condensing water heaters



## Ansel (Sep 14, 2008)

I have a need for techincal assistance from you all. On a gas water heater the condensate needs to be neutralized before being dumped into the dwv by way of indirect waste. I know I have read that in a trade magazine, which article I can not now find. And, I am unable to locate the information in any of the codes. I mentioned it to my job foreman and he looks at me like I am crazy.:blink: This concerns three Lochinvar Armor gas water heaters I installed at Camp Lejeune. The manufactures installation instructions clearly show it. But, the company informs me that it is not needed. The subject came up as a point of conversation between myself and the hvac contractor who did install the neutralizers on his boilers. My foreman tells me it is because the heating lines have chemicals in them. Whereas, ours do not. But, correct me if I am wrong. The condensate line is not the water in the lines, it is the result of condensation created by the flue gases being cooled to the level that plastic piping may be used as a material for exhaust. Thanks for any information you can provide.


----------



## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

Your foreman is retarded..:whistling2: You are correct the condensation is formed from the products of combustion passing through the secondary heat exchanger and condensing.. Condensate is highly acidic and will corrode metallic drains if not properly neutralized and maintained regularly. If the waste lines are all plastic then there will be no issues but if metallic it will need to be neutralized

I just fab my own neutralizers out of a 2" * 6" sch80 pvc nipple with female adapters and bushings to reduce down to 3/4" make sure to install a union so the medium can be replenished easily. I buy my medium from a garden center in bulk its a calcium carbonate rock... hopes this helps


----------



## Ansel (Sep 14, 2008)

*Thank you for the reply*

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my question. Thanks for confirming that I am not crazy. Lines are plastic, but the catch basin in the floor sink is metal. Thanks, again, for your help.

Ansel Metz, Jr.


----------



## Dhal (Jun 26, 2011)

I've always ran my tankless condensate lines in plastic (cpvc or pvc).

David


----------



## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Once when piping a boiler condensate line to the ABS plastic drain using (almost) all PVC I absentmindedly put a copper fitting and a bit of pipe in as part of the drain. It lasted about a year and a half and then started leaking bad. When I removed it and replaced it with PVC it was thin like copper foil and crumbly. :laughing: 

Be sure to neutralize the condensate before it hits any metallic drainage or this will happen to you.


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Plumbworker said:


> Your foreman is retarded..:whistling2: You are correct the condensation is formed from the products of combustion passing through the secondary heat exchanger and condensing.. Condensate is highly acidic and will corrode metallic drains if not properly neutralized and maintained regularly. If the waste lines are all plastic then there will be no issues but if metallic it will need to be neutralized
> 
> I just fab my own neutralizers out of a 2" * 6" sch80 pvc nipple with female adapters and bushings to reduce down to 3/4" make sure to install a union so the medium can be replenished easily. I buy my medium from a garden center in bulk its a calcium carbonate rock... hopes this helps


Even if you got all plastic I'm sure your code requires you to neutralize the condensate before it exits the building due to its ph


----------



## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> Even if you got all plastic I'm sure your code requires you to neutralize the condensate before it exits the building due to its ph


Does that mean code will require that we add acid to neutralize the basics such as soaps down the drain?


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

ZL700 said:


> Does that mean code will require that we add acid to neutralize the basics such as soaps down the drain?


I'm not sure how strong you're soap is but you can test the ph level of the outgoing sewage 

But seriously the carbonic acid that is produced by these units is very corrosive 
Remember were supposed to protect the entire system not just the house piping


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Wastewater flows are regulated and permitted....
http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=2709&q=324212&depNav_GID=1643#GeneralPermits

Treatment or, dilution is required to maintain permitted levels of various substances.


----------



## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Wastewater flows are regulated and permitted....
> http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=2709&q=324212&depNav_GID=1643#GeneralPermits
> 
> Treatment or, dilution is required to maintain permitted levels of various substances.


Condensing 90+ furnaces have produced the same acidic condensate for over 25 years, why does everyone turn the blind eye to that ?


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ZL700 said:


> Condensing 90+ furnaces have produced the same acidic condensate for over 25 years, why does everyone turn the blind eye to that ?


Nothing new about the clean water act of 1972 either....


----------



## ChantellWilson (Oct 14, 2011)

I would stay away from these units. I have serviced lots of Polaris units and they are not only extremely expensive but you do realize you will have no hot water or heat if and when the unit breaks down.


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Is the polaris the same as an armor or knight? We have not had any serious problems with these boilers so far since 2007!


----------



## TraTech (Jan 22, 2012)

What are people's thoughts on Trinity NTI
Boilers?


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

TraTech said:


> What are people's thoughts on Trinity NTI
> Boilers?


 Seen them on a website the armor is okay with me!


----------

