# Latest boiler room - Viessmann Vitodens 100



## futz

I've been busy as hell lately and haven't read or posted much here at PZ. Here's my newest boiler room - not wired or purged or gasfit yet - it is full of water though. 

Vitodens 100 boiler with Bradford White RTV-52 tank. Just for you guys (and for the customer, attempting to keep pump rumble off the wall somewhat) I used a fair number of clevis hangers. Also used a B&G Low Loss Header and a B&G Air Separator (Spirovent style, but less expensive).


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## futz

*Some more pics*

That upper pump head in the first pic needs to be flipped 180 degrees. I'll do that when I do the wiring. Seismic straps still to do too.


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## kentdmo

looks real nice


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## Bayside500

looks really nice, i always look forward to your posts of these boiler installs


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## pauliplumber

Nice lookin work.


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## njoy plumbing

I don't see a pressure relief valve?:blink:


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## futz

njoy plumbing said:


> I don't see a pressure relief valve?:blink:


It's hidden there at the left bottom of the boiler. You can trace the blowoff line back from the drain to get an idea where it is. Actually, you *can* see the left edge of it in the last pic. Just above the boiler drain, teed off the side of the boiler outlet. Standard location for a Vito - the manual has a diagram that shows it built that way with the fitting kit supplied, so I build it that way.


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## njoy plumbing

My eyes did not see this at first.:blink: Do you use viessman exclusivly? I've installed a few of these as well. cheap but limited.


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## rex

nice job...


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## futz

njoy plumbing said:


> Do you use viessman exclusivly?


I use Burnham Series 2 for regular efficiency (80% AFUE) and Viessmann for high efficiency. I don't do enough heating systems to be bouncing all over with different manufacturers. I'm only one guy. So I stick with what I know. I like Viessmann stuff.

I'm just starting the rough-in on another house that will have exactly the same system in it.



njoy plumbing said:


> I've installed a few of these as well. Cheap but limited.


I'd hardly call them cheap.  But they're not wildly expensive either.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

:notworthy:That is plumbing work right there . :notworthy:


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## user2090

I aspire to do work at that level. Never done much that way, especially boilers. Couple of questions, if you don't mind.
1. How in the world do you keep all that straight?
2. How long does that take to install?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Indie said:


> I aspire to do work at that level. Never done much that way, especially boilers. Couple of questions, if you don't mind.
> 1. How in the world do you keep all that straight?
> 2. How long does that take to install?




Im gonna toss this out there Indy, if you dont like it, just send it right back.

Im pretty sure that he keeps it straight by using a level.


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## user2090

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Im gonna toss this out there Indy, if you dont like it, just send it right back.
> 
> Im pretty sure that he keeps it straight by using a level.


Ok, let me clarify. There seems to be a lot going on, on that job. 
How do you not get lines mixed up?

RSP=:ban: :laughing:


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## Optimus Primer

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Im gonna toss this out there Indy, if you dont like it, just send it right back.
> 
> Im pretty sure that he keeps it straight by using a level.


LOL.

yeah how long does something like that take? Living in Florida that's something I will never experience.


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## futz

Indie said:


> Ok, let me clarify. There seems to be a lot going on, on that job.
> How do you not get lines mixed up?


Heh  You think it's complex to pipe it? You should try wiring one.  With any layout I haven't done once before I have to sit down for a few hours and draw a schematic or I'm lost. Then I have a map to follow, and it goes in the file to save time on the next job of that type.

The piping looks more complex than it really is. I have layout diagrams to follow for the main sub-assemblies, and the rest (when you do these things regularly) is just common piping sense. Being all jammed in that corner made it a bit more difficult than some others I've done.

As for time, this one took around a day total (in small spare bits of time spread out over a few days) to get the parts picked up and all sub-assemblies pre-fabbed in the shop. Then out to the job for 22 hours to install to where you see it here. It'll be another half to three quarters of a day to wire/fire/purge it (including water tank). Then install some thermostats and we're cooking with gas. :thumbup:

I did the vent but I'm not doing the gasfitting.


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## markb

Great looking job. Always impressed with the work coming out of BC.

One point I would like to mention. I see that you have a shut-off for the make-up water before the backflow preventer, but what about installing one after the BFP in case it needs to be serviced? 

Keep it up!


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## futz

markb said:


> One point I would like to mention. I see that you have a shut-off for the make-up water before the backflow preventer, but what about installing one after the BFP in case it needs to be serviced?


Hey, good idea! I think I'll start doing that.


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## AKdaplumba

nice! Getting dizzy just looking at it. How do you keep track of what is what?


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## futz

AKdaplumba said:


> nice! Getting dizzy just looking at it.


That's the beer causing that, not the piping. :laughing:



AKdaplumba said:


> How do you keep track of what is what?


After 20 years of installing and servicing boilers and heating systems, you can pretty much look at any system and just know where things go and how it's supposed to work. These systems really impress the uninitiated though.  They just _look_ so complex and confusing. Actually they're fairly simple to understand.


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## Tommy plumber

Terrific looking job. Those pipes are plumb, level and straight. And when I see a vacuum breaker on that bottom fed storage tank, I know you are a true master plumber.:thumbsup:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Indeed. Top notch workmanship.


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## Protech

Looks great.

I'm going to knit pick you though. Band iron on the ABS? Why not a 2 hole strap?

Just a little knit pick. 

Great looking work man.


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## futz

Protech said:


> I'm going to knit pick you though. Band iron on the ABS? Why not a 2 hole strap?


Didn't have one with me.  I keep those in the finish box. The strap iron is temporary.


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## Scott K

A few things that I noticed from the pictures, could probably find more if I was there in person....

1) The Air Seperator located near the inlet of the Boiler Pump, a little too close for my tastes. A good practice is to provide minimum 6" and optimal 12" plus between an air seperator and a pump to reduce potential cavitation that could occur due to turbulence from this low pressure zone. 

2) Why even bother with an air seperator on the Boiler Pump coming out of the Low Loss header? This would provide more Benefit on the system pump on the other side of the low loss header. Hell some guys won't even bother using an air seperator on a system with a low loss header that has a bleed valve like the one you have. 

3) No isolation valve or drain down for the Expansion tank - how are you supposed to check the air pressure and/or adjust the pressure without being able to isolate it and then drain down the water side so you can properly adjust the pressure? Nevermind that, you now have to introduce a bunch of freshwater into the system to change it as well. Also, dedicated 0-30 or 0-60 PSI pressure gauge on the incoming fill line near the expansion tank/downstream of the Watts 1156 is a good idea for diagnosis purposes. Also, to change the watts 1156, which do fail, or the Watts 9-D, you'd also have to drain down part of the system without some additional valves. 



4) Do you ever use isolation ball valve flanges such as those offered by Webstone, Watts, or even Grundfos (Emco carries them all) ? Makes for a much neater, compact installation and WILL save you time in labour by not having to install seperate ball valves, nor use MIP adapters into standard cast iron pump flanges, and they make sense. Also, if you buy the swt ones, less joints, less potential for leakage or failure down the road. 

5) Instead of trying to pipe in front of drywall, how about a few sheets of some Veneer paper faced plywood? Yes pricey, but will actually shorten your install time by allowing you to use ceiling plates & rod anywhere. This is a requirement where I work. Have the paper faced plywood painted. Will look much better at the end of it all. 

6) Saw some burn marks - a standard practice for myself is to make a "bake" tray. You know those bake trays they advertise that apparently dont' burn cookies - basically take a sheet of 26 Gauge (or around there) sheet metal and fold it in half and put it in behind whatever you're soldering by hanging it with a small screw for temporary purposes. Due to the thin layer of air between the 2 pieces of sheet metal, you won't expierience as much in the way of issues of making the sheet metal molten or burning through it. 

7) No drain down or full isolation for the indirect coil?

8) I like that you piped the Watts 9-D - good call. I'm assuming all the blow offs for the boiler, t & P, etc, are piped inside the 2" drain? Because if there is an air break there, you'd probably want a 4 x 2" reducing coupling to act as a funnel. 

9) No Grundfos Alpha for the radiant/system pump?? I priced out what it would cost to install a Grundfos 15-58 with a Pressure differnetial bypass plus additional fittings & a half hour labour to instsall, versus an Alpha, and the Alpha was only $10 more for the total cost. For that $10 more you also get a pump that uses half or less as much power as the 15-58.

10) Hanging pipes off of pipes......


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## SPH

Great work!


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