# lead bend



## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

I have a Job tomorrow and the only way to access the line is through the led bend. The customer said it's a soft stoppage in a sag like 10' out. Now I know it's not a great idea but I'm thinking if I don't use a cutter and just put a bend on a whip I can clear it. Would anyone try this here? They say it's been done before by R.R. .No they don't want a clean out.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Yeah, why not? Just be careful and take it slow. I would run water down the line w/ a supply line from the toilet stop so you know when you get it but other than that there shouldn't be an issue.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Vent the line or locate clean out and run cable upstream


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Yeah, why not? Just be careful and take it slow. I would run water down the line w/ a supply line from the toilet stop so you know when you get it but other than that there shouldn't be an issue.


Why would you run water into the line if is stopped up , water would overflow ?

Especially if we are talking about a lead closet bend right?


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

I mostly meant after you start running the cable. Clearly I don't mean to let it run all over the floor. After it begins to clear than run the water while the cable is working. Is venting an option, All Pro?


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I mostly meant after you start running the cable. Clearly I don't mean to let it run all over the floor. After it begins to clear than run the water while the cable is working. Is venting an option, All Pro?


I Gotcha


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

No I don't do vents.I use a k-7500 on mains.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

All Pro said:


> No I don't do vents.I use a k-7500 on mains.


You do know all you have to do is located the vent for the toilet inside the home cut a nice 18 by 18 square and tap in a test t and start snaking


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

I've run cables through lead bends prob thousands of times. Never a problem. I try to feed the cable and blade as gently as I can past the bend by hand, machine off. After that point your fine.


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

It's a Nice bathroom I'm not trying to do all that. Just wondering what the chances really are for punching through the bend I've had it happen on tubs. But I don't see the toilet bend braking that easy. Never had to go threw one before. Always avoided it


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

All Pro said:


> It's a Nice bathroom I'm not trying to do all that. Just wondering what the chances really are for punching through the bend I've had it happen on tubs. But I don't see the toilet bend braking that easy. Never had to go threw one before. Always avoided it



Well given the circumstances I say hand feed it pass the sant all the way down to the 90 then once in the branch start snaking


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## timrath (Sep 28, 2013)

I would get a flexible leader on it work it down by hand and you'll be all good


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Feed the cutter through the lead bend by hand then start snaking...

Before starting put a tiger tail over the cable and use it to protect the bend from the cable rubbing on the bend...


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

Redwood, What's a tiger tail never heard of it. Is it like a guide hose? Never used them.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

All Pro said:


> Redwood, What's a tiger tail never heard of it. Is it like a guide hose? Never used them.


Yep Zackly...

http://img.directindustry.com/pdf/repository_di/58321/genesis-tiger-tail-waste-collection-hose-178701_1b.jpg


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## NORTHSTAR (Sep 16, 2010)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I mostly meant after you start running the cable. Clearly I don't mean to let it run all over the floor. After it begins to clear than run the water while the cable is working. Is venting an option, All Pro?


Yea. I do the same as far as shooting water into the closet bend while cleaning the line. If I hear or see the water filling up I allow it to fill just below the flange. It lets me know when I get things flowing.


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

Haven't been on here in a couple days, but I got it I ran my cable through my wet vac hose so it didn't rub. Thanks for the advice. I was always afraid of toughs bends.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Rip that crap out and bring it up to modern specs.


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

What?


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

Oh I got ya. I do that too but not every costumer wants to pay that. Alot of my calls are emergencies.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

RW Plumbing said:


> Rip that crap out and bring it up to modern specs.


His not a plumber 
His a drain tech


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> His not a plumber His a drain tech


Neither are you.....apprentice.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Neither are you.....apprentice.


I know
And I didn't mean anything by it

But being a drain tech doesn't allowed you to fix lead flanges , by either soldering a brass flange or putting a PVC flange


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> His not a plumber His a drain tech


Yous a bad speller


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

:laughing:


Drain Pro said:


> Yous a bad speller


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> I know
> And I didn't mean anything by it
> 
> But being a drain tech doesn't allowed you to fix lead flanges , by either soldering a brass flange or putting a PVC flange


**mod hat removed, tradesman hat put on**

Let me get this straight....

You're a 2nd year apprentice schooling a guy that has 10 to 15 years experience in the trade (who is also a Business Operator) on what the right course was on a job you never saw, for a customer you never met, in a business you have never operated, in state you have never worked in.

That about sum it up?


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Oh so now drain guy can do plumbing, I guessed in most state that illegal.......
Interesting


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

RW Plumbing said:


> Rip that crap out and bring it up to modern specs.



Wouldn't that be the better idea?
What if this guy cause damage to that bend? What would he do then?


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Leach713 said:


> Oh so now drain guy can do plumbing, I guessed in most state that illegal.......
> Interesting


Missed the point.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> **mod hat removed, tradesman hat put on**
> 
> Let me get this straight....
> 
> ...


Since we're doing the grammar police thing, some should be "sum," haha. (not sure if the comma would go inside or outside quotations, and really not sure if the quotations even belong there.)


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> **mod hat removed, tradesman hat put on** Let me get this straight.... You're a 2nd year apprentice schooling a guy that has 10 to 15 years experience in the trade (who is also a Business Operator) on what the right course was on a job you never saw, for a customer you never met, in a business you have never operated, in state you have never worked in. That about some it up?


So that 15 yr of doing illegal plumbing since he is only licensed to clean drains and camera inspection. 
I'm lost now


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Leach713 said:


> So that 15 yr of doing illegal plumbing since he is only licensed to clean drains and camera inspection.
> I'm lost now


Laws vary state to state, and in many no license is necessary for doing drains. In no way does anything that has been said imply he is doing anything illegal.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

love2surf927 said:


> Laws vary state to state, and in many no license is necessary for doing drains. In no way does anything that has been said imply he is doing anything illegal.


I understand that 
Mr.RW said why can't he just modernized the lead flange. And I stated he can't since his not a plumber but whatever there are to many loop holes around here


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

love2surf927 said:


> Since we're doing the grammar police thing, some should be *"sum,"* haha. (not sure if the comma would go inside or outside quotations, and really not sure if the quotations even belong there.)


Good catch. :thumbup:

Edited accordingly. :yes:


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Leach713 said:


> I understand that
> Mr.RW said why can't he just modernized the lead flange. And I stated he can't since his not a plumber but whatever there are to many loop holes around here


And he answered clearly that some folks don't want to pay for an upgrade. It's nice to always be able to do exactly what you'd like as far as making repairs but ultimately you are in someone else's home. Personally I don't have enough business to turn down work just because they can't afford to upgrade the way I'd like. As long as I don't see it as a liability issue I'm happy to do what I can to satisfy the customer and do a respectable job at the same time. Offering options is always good, but ultimately the choice is the customers, some here seem to have the luxury of turning down work if it's not to their liking, or at least they make it seem that way on the internet.

Edit: not directed at anyone in particular, just my observations


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> I understand that
> Mr.RW said why can't he just modernized the lead flange. And I stated he can't since his not a plumber but whatever there are to many loop holes around here


Ahhh, now I smell what you're steppin' in.

If by loopholes around here you mean you mean the trade....yep. More than you can shake a stick at. If you meant around the PZ, well...we are a cross-section of the trade so I guess the same applies.

As far as illegal for him to do away with the lead bend according to his AHJ rules, not for me to say. Never been there or researched it for his location. Probably not going to either. He can speak for himself better than anyone on that issue. He's innocent until proven guilty and I'm not interested in proving him either way today so innocent it is. 

You on the other hand are an apprentice from Texas. That makes you guilty until proven innocent. :laughing::jester:

BTW: Should have been "too" many loopholes, not "to". :laughing:


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Ahhh, now I smell what you're steppin' in. If by loopholes around here you mean you mean the trade....yep. More than you can shake a stick at. If you meant around the PZ, well...we are a cross-section of the trade so I guess the same applies. As far as illegal for him to do away with the lead bend according to his AHJ rules, not for me to say. Never been there or researched it for his location. Probably not going to either. He can speak for himself better than anyone on that issue. He's innocent until proven guilty and I'm not interested in proving him either way today so innocent it is.  You on the other hand are an apprentice from Texas. That makes you guilty until proven innocent. :laughing::jester: BTW: Should have been "too" many loopholes, not "to". :laughing:


Yes I am an apprentice in Texas and I do have stupid and useless endorsement ; residential utility installer and DRAIN CLEANER luckily I know a little plumbing .

I'm done


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

All in good fun Leach. Don't take it personal.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> All in good fun Leach. Don't take it personal.


If I did I wouldn't probably make it as an plumber


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

I'm not here to argue. I will tell u if u have a problem, address me. I'm 31 and I've been in the trade since I was 14. Watch your mouth. I'm not the only person in my work if I need a permit I share the Job with my good friend. Do not judge me, I will plumb circles around you!


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

All Pro said:


> I'm not here to argue. I will tell u if u have a problem, address me. I'm 31 and I've been in the trade since I was 14. Watch your mouth. I'm not the only person in my work if I need a permit I share the Job with my good friend. Do not judge me, I will plumb circles around you!



That good for you and I not being disrespectful I am just stating what right , 
My point is the tile guys does bathroom remodel right, well the customer decided to get new Trim for her new bathroom , now guess who's going to install it the tile guy and that donkey $h!t if you ask me. Same thing apply to you. Leave the plumbing alone 


Well there are thousands ways to plumb but there is only one way to plumb right per code.


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

I know the codes and you sound like my Girl. I'm not going to go on any further with this!


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

All Pro said:


> I know the codes and you sound like my Girl. I'm not going to go on any further with this!





Lol your girl must have a deep voice whoa


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

Are you kidding me. I'm not that dude dont go there!!. u are No Where near me. And will never speak to me like that to my face. I DON'T PLAY THAT GAME! AND I WON'T SAY ANOTHER WORD ABOUT IT. TOUGH GUY.


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

All apologies to the rest of u. Cause that isn't professional.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

All Pro said:


> Are you kidding me. I'm not that dude dont go there!!. u are No Where near me. And will never speak to me like that to my face. I DON'T PLAY THAT GAME! AND I WON'T SAY ANOTHER WORD ABOUT IT. TOUGH GUY.


.

I'm done


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> That good for you and I not being disrespectful I am just stating what right , My point is the tile guys does bathroom remodel right, well the customer decided to get new Trim for her new bathroom , now guess who's going to install it the tile guy and that donkey $h!t if you ask me. Same thing apply to you. Leave the plumbing alone Well there are thousands ways to plumb but there is only one way to plumb right per code.


With all due respect, you're only an apprentice. You have no business telling anyone on here to leave the plumbing alone. If anyone should leave it alone it's you, until you've earned your stripes.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Drain Pro said:


> With all due respect, you're only an apprentice. You have no business telling anyone on here to leave the plumbing alone. If anyone should leave it alone it's you, until you've earned your stripes.


Yes I am but am not just and apprentice.
Why should I leave it if I'm the one trying to become a license plumber??


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> .
> 
> I'm done


What happened to this. Are you just TRYING to pick a fight??


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Letterrip said:


> What happened to this. Are you just TRYING to pick a fight??





Whaat?!?!
No 
So it my fault cuz I stated some options and a couple facts here and there (in my state)


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

No, the initial statement isn't the problem. But you have been given several different answers by several different people. Yet you still keep going at it

Breathe in......breathe out.....


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Letterrip said:


> No, the initial statement isn't the problem. But you have been given several different answers by several different people. Yet you still keep going at it Breathe in......breathe out.....


I'm ok , and It's my fault if any one got offended 
just don't make the assumption that I'm some kind if girl but can't take a smart a$$ remark.
I don't have issued with any one


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

I apologize for my stubbornness


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> Yes I am but am not just and apprentice. Why should I leave it if I'm the one trying to become a license plumber??


 What I think you fail to realize is how things work from place to place. All Pro may be more than qualified to change that led bend even though he personally doesn't hold a license. You just assumed because he's a drain tech that he's not qualified. I'll give you an example : before I had my own business, I worked for one of the oldest and well respected licensed plumbing companies in my area. One of the foreman held the license for the company. No one else in the shop had a license except him, but some of these guys were amazing plumbers. I also did plumbing from time to time although I was primarily a drain guy. All perfectly legal and up to code.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Leach713 said:


> I apologize for my stubbornness


From what I have heard that is an admirable character trait for plumbers. 

FWIW, there is nothing wrong in trying to offer help.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Drain Pro said:


> With all due respect, you're only an apprentice. You have no business telling anyone on here to leave the plumbing alone. If anyone should leave it alone it's you, until you've earned your stripes.



I have 40-years in the trade, 33-years as a licensed contractor and 26-years as an expert witness for construction litigation. I am telling you, leave "plumbing" alone unless you have a qualified license for it. There is just too much liability involved.

Mark


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Leach, better stick with asking questions. You're no match to MOST of the journeyman and master plumbers here yet.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> Leach, better stick with asking questions. You're no match to MOST of the journeyman and master plumbers here yet.


I never said I was


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

ToUtahNow said:


> I have 40-years in the trade, 33-years as a licensed contractor and 26-years as an expert witness for construction litigation. I am telling you, leave "plumbing" alone unless you have a qualified license for it. There is just too much liability involved. Mark


 That's just not how it works here. The vast majority of plumbers working here are not personally licensed. They work under the "supervision" of a licensed master plumber. Like I said in an earlier post, I've had the privilege of working with some extremely talented plumbers who were not personally licensed. Most of the plumbers I have worked with are true professionals and are extremely knowledgable of codes and doing things the right way. Most plumbing work in NYC is performed by an unlicensed plumber who works for a licensed company.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Leach713 said:


> I never said I was


Now your sounding like my teenage kids. You're getting a little chippy son


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> Now your sounding like my teenage kids. You're getting a little chippy son


Lmao


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Haha I kicked a hornets nest without even trying. I must be THAT good. I've been there with customers that can't afford something. I just explain that I'm not liable for breaking this old crap. If it breaks we're fixing it anyways. It's usually cheaper to just fix it straight off. Most people go for the fix but not all. I hate limping crap along way past it's prime.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Drain Pro said:


> What I think you fail to realize is how things work from place to place. All Pro may be more than qualified to change that led bend even though he personally doesn't hold a license. You just assumed because he's a drain tech that he's not qualified. I'll give you an example : before I had my own business, I worked for one of the oldest and well respected licensed plumbing companies in my area. One of the foreman held the license for the company. No one else in the shop had a license except him, but some of these guys were amazing plumbers. I also did plumbing from time to time although I was primarily a drain guy. All perfectly legal and up to code.


The Original Poster is in Connecticut...

In the State of Connecticut Sewer & Drain Cleaning does not require a license.

Plumbing Requires a Master Plumber License, Journeyman License, or an Apprentice Card working under the supervision of a Licensed Master or, Journeyman.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

All Pro said:


> I'm not here to argue. I will tell u if u have a problem, address me. I'm 31 and I've been in the trade since I was 14. Watch your mouth. I'm not the only person in my work if I need a permit I share the Job with my good friend. Do not judge me, I will plumb circles around you!


Hmmmm.... I went to correct you Redwood by telling you that he stated that he doesn't do plumbing repairs. I just may stand corrected instead. I thought he said if it needs plumbing, he shares with his friend. This actually says if he needs a permit. Bit of a difference.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Letterrip said:


> Hmmmm.... I went to correct you Redwood by telling you that he stated that he doesn't do plumbing repairs. I just may stand corrected instead. I thought he said if it needs plumbing, he shares with his friend. *This actually says if he needs a permit. Bit of a difference.*


It certainly does seem to be a bit of a difference...
Doesn't it...


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

Ok so let me get this straight. We have a turd chaser with no master plumbers license. He cleans drains, and does plumbing when his customers have the money to pay for it. If his customers have the money for plumbing work that requires a permit, he calls a buddy who has a valid license to stamp his permit and he pays him for the use of his license. And were giving the kid that's actually enrolled in an apprenticeship program and going for his license, the hard time here for calling him out on it. In this situation I have to side with the apprentice... No one else sees anything wrong with this??? Really??? WTF???


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

WTF is right. Since when has the PZ been the license Gestapo Zone?

Since NEVER. That's when, so get over it.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

theplumbinator said:


> Ok so let me get this straight. We have a turd chaser with no master plumbers license. He cleans drains, and does plumbing when his customers have the money to pay for it. If his customers have the money for plumbing work that requires a permit, he calls a buddy who has a valid license to stamp his permit and he pays him for the use of his license. And were giving the kid that's actually enrolled in an apprenticeship program and going for his license, the hard time here for calling him out on it. In this situation I have to side with the apprentice... No one else sees anything wrong with this??? Really??? WTF???


I don't recall the kid posting his registration information for any apprenticeship program. That is just an assumption. Much like other key parts of your post.

Hell, for all we know you're probably a died in the wool Metropolitans fan. :laughing:


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> I don't recall the kid posting his registration information for any apprenticeship program. That is just an assumption. Much like other key parts of your post. Hell, for all we know you're probably a died in the wool Metropolitans fan. :laughing:[/QUOTE
> 
> I'm not with any union but I am register with the state of texas every end of the yr I ask the company for my work hours with my employer certification form so I can send to Austin Tx. And get my hours counted for my jman hours


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

There you go


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

That is certainly undeniable proof of fact.

While we're on the subject of proving credentials, I want to let everybody know I finally got my Master's license in New York. :lauging:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

The Internet is just like the army. It lets me be all I can be.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

I am a Reverend. I'll post my certificate. Al Sharpton is an alumnus.:laughing:


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> That is certainly undeniable proof of fact. While we're on the subject of proving credentials, I want to let everybody know I finally got my Master's license in New York. :lauging:[/QUOTE
> 
> Il be better of when I earn my jman


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> WTF is right. Since when has the PZ been the license Gestapo Zone? Since NEVER. That's when, so get over it.


It still isn't. But I like to think it's the do only the work you can legally do zone. Or the if you want to play plumber you better have the license zone. 

It's ok I make most of my money performing surgeries on the side. It's ok though I have a doctor buddy sign off on it. Who here wants me to give it a whirl?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

All Pro said:


> ....I'm not the only person in my work if I need a permit I share the Job with my good friend...


I don't see here where it says he is doing the work unlicensed. I read it as sharing the job with a licensed person. Not paying under the table to use someone else's license.

It is truly amazing how we can all tell ourselves different stories that seem quite plausible. All based on the same information.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> It still isn't. But I like to think it's the do only the work you can legally do zone. Or the if you want to play plumber you better have the license zone. It's ok I make most of my money performing surgeries on the side. It's ok though I have a doctor buddy sign off on it. Who here wants me to give it a whirl?


Do you do testicular enlargement? I know a few people that need it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> Do you do testicular enlargement? I know a few people that need it.


Sure. And don't worry about infections. I watched something on tv that addresses that. I now change sawzall blades and use a clean pair of channelocks between each patient.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

This dead horse rates up there with jonnibolt and wax ring threads.


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## All Pro (Nov 15, 2013)

Look I'm not here to cause a problem. I've been in the trade a long time. My company does drain and sewer work. If I brake something I fix it and most cases wave my snake fee. I don't do anything against the law. And I sure as hell Am No hack. Yes I do share work and people do the same for me. All the work I do is insured. If I shouldn't be doing a Job I bring someone in that can. I can't go back and be a helper. I have a family to take care of. And getting sponsored at 31 isn't easy. I do not have any disrespect for master plumbers. I wish I got mine when the time was right. And the handful of plumbers that refer me show me nothing but respect. The reason I got pissed was I asked a simple question about a led bend. That I wasn't trying to change out. I don't to here negative comments from someone that never met me. Most of you guys are helpful.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Well. That last post sounded a bit different than the I share work with a plumber. If you bring a licensed guy in when necessary, there's no problem with what you do. Hell I sub out most of my drain work as I can't run a snake worth a crap.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

In the great state of Texas most drain cleaner are only allowed to install sewer and install clean out and removed ptraps (under sink)to run a snake. Now legally they aren't even allowed to remove a toilet so they can run their snake or even fix a lead stub out. Now they are some loops holes with service companies and this trade . Which I do understand why?. I was just stating what is right


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Leach713 said:


> In the great state of Texas most drain cleaner are only allowed to install sewer and install clean out and removed ptraps (under sink)to run a snake. Now legally they aren't even allowed to remove a toilet so they can run their snake or even fix a lead stub out. Now they are some loops holes with service companies and this trade . Which I do understand why?. I was just stating what is right


Same here drain guys are only supposed to remove clean out covers and P-traps under a sink. No toilets or anything else. The company I use for drain work will actually call me to pull a toilet.


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