# Kinetic Ram saved the day.



## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

I've been a plumber for (wow) 16 years now and drain cleaning company owner for 3. Always using a rod to clear all drains I encountered. From reading this forum, have learned there's more methods that can be used to clear drains. So a couple months ago I purchased a kinetic ram because I heard it was a go to tool when your in a pinch. Yesterday had a multi unit building where 3 different drains were backed up. Two I could not clear with the rod. Was amazed at how it blow throw the drum trap on one, which I usually cut out. And blasted through a kitchen line the was in a basement unit that probably went to 4" underground. Do you guys go in first with the ram or use it last resort. I just got a Ropump too but it did not work on this job. Is it effective? And is there any knowledge you guys can share with me on the uses? Thanks


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

You got it Baby, in a pinch the ram has saved me.
It's a learning curve, but mostly common sense.

Sure you could cut out all the drum traps you encounter, if their going to pay for it.
Lot's won't.

There are times though it didn't work, but I'm glad there is one on the truck.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

I've learned to feel my way through almost any drum trap. Practice. Or stepdrill and dollar plug. If your REALLY good, you can make that turn back towards the tub from the sink. For me the air ram--it's a last ditch effort. I'll try the shopvac first then rod. Man a big shopvac works good.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

KoleckeINC said:


> Man a big shopvac works good.


One of my best drain cleaning tools


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## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

KoleckeINC said:


> I've learned to feel my way through almost any drum trap. Practice. Or stepdrill and dollar plug. If your REALLY good, you can make that turn back towards the tub from the sink. For me the air ram--it's a last ditch effort. I'll try the shopvac first then rod. Man a big shopvac works good.


How do you use a shop vac to clear a tub or sink?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

MACK ATTAKK said:


> How do you use a shop vac to clear a tub or sink?



Plug up the overflow.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Plug the overflow with a wet rag, use a wet rag around the vac hose to the strainer. Fill sink to the overflow and release-try to vac that water through the strainer of the tub. -airgun tub 1/3 the way full same way-fill sink and release-then blast it. Here's a picture of a duck I got out-with the vacuum. Three other plumbers Rodded before me. All lasted a month or so.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Had a guy working for the last company I worked for. Thought it was a cool tool. Hit a sink in a certain chicken store with it. Blew that line clean.......... into and through another trap. Sprayed the kitchen and a couple of carts full of chicken waiting to be cooked.

I think they threw it into the deep fryer figuring it would still be crispy and sanitized by the grease.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

GAN said:


> Had a guy working for the last company I worked for. Thought it was a cool tool. Hit a sink in a certain chicken store with it. Blew that line clean.......... into and through another trap. Sprayed the kitchen and a couple of carts full of chicken waiting to be cooked. I think they threw it into the deep fryer figuring it would still be crispy and sanitized by the grease.


Special sauce!


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

GAN said:


> Had a guy working for the last company I worked for. Thought it was a cool tool. Hit a sink in a certain chicken store with it. Blew that line clean.......... into and through another trap. Sprayed the kitchen and a couple of carts full of chicken waiting to be cooked.
> 
> I think they threw it into the deep fryer figuring it would still be crispy and sanitized by the grease.


Reminds me of a Fazolis Italian restaurant we worked in. The plumber I was with popped a ceiling tile and a bunch of roach turds fell into a big pot of sauce. The old lady stirring the pot just kinda shrugged her shoulders and kept on a stirring. Lol


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

KoleckeINC said:


> Plug the overflow with a wet rag, use a wet rag around the vac hose to the strainer. Fill sink to the overflow and release-try to vac that water through the strainer of the tub. -airgun tub 1/3 the way full same way-fill sink and release-then blast it. Here's a picture of a duck I got out-with the vacuum. Three other plumbers Rodded before me. All lasted a month or so.


I'm perplexed on how the duck got down the tub drain shoe. Maybe if it's 2", but I've never seen a 2" shoe.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

chonkie said:


> I'm perplexed on how the duck got down the tub drain shoe. Maybe if it's 2", but I've never seen a 2" shoe.


Kids+toys+drains=WTF?!?!

Probably what happened is one of the previous drain cleaners didn't see it lodged and sent his cable through the the waste in a last ditch effort pushing it further in.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

OpenSights said:


> Kids+toys+drains=WTF?!?!
> 
> Probably what happened is one of the previous drain cleaners didn't see it lodged and sent his cable through the the waste in a last ditch effort pushing it further in.


I guess if the cross bars of the drain are broken ... that had to be deliberate and done with some decent force to get the duck to squish into the drain shoe. Brass shoes are a bit bigger, but pvc ones are pretty narrow. Not even a full 1 1/2".

Damn those pesky kids.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I see cross bars broken all the time. Can't say I've ever removed something that big before, but shampoo caps are somewhat common.

AFA a kinetic ram goes, I've never used or seen one used. Always wondered about them. To me it seems like it would just blow a tubular trap right off a sink...


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Murphy's law-no strainer leads to foreign object obstructions. I've had baby washcloths more than once-shampoo caps too. You can hold the trap on from underneath but you can't hold the overflow too.


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## ItalStal (Nov 12, 2015)

I have one, mostly use it for condensate drains and smaller stuff. I watched a licenced mechanic try using his on multiple floor drains backed up in a shower area. Needless to say I stood back a little bit when he got the stinky water in the face.


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## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

KoleckeINC said:


> Plug the overflow with a wet rag, use a wet rag around the vac hose to the strainer. Fill sink to the overflow and release-try to vac that water through the strainer of the tub. -airgun tub 1/3 the way full same way-fill sink and release-then blast it. Here's a picture of a duck I got out-with the vacuum. Three other plumbers Rodded before me. All lasted a month or so.


Been thinking about this post. If you use blow gun in tub while sink is draining can't the air from the gun blow out if the sink? This isn't a set up is it


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

How many sink lines have you seen wyed into tubs? I mean I have seen it before but it's a rarity in these parts most tubs I see tie directly into the 3-4" stack within 10'.


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## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

cable or root said:


> How many sink lines have you seen wyed into tubs? I mean I have seen it before but it's a rarity in these parts most tubs I see tie directly into the 3-4" stack within 10'.


Most tubs here are ran as follows. Toilet stack, 2" branch that picks up sink first then tub. So it's on the same line as the tub.


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## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

All of the warnings of using the ram came to reality. Tried clearing a tub with a drum trap. The waste and over flow had been replaced with the PVC glued type. Started giving it air burst, working up the pressure. Then pop. It cracked the shoe of the waste and overflow. 😠 I still want to use it but now getting Leary.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

In 18 years I've never cracked a strainer or shoe of a tub drain in the Chicagoland area. It's a fluke. And not a setup either. I've opened many drains that way. But I'd be weary of doing it on the third floor above a finished second floor.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

I haven't touched my ram in god knows when. We also don't have drum traps. Thank god. 


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Worse thing I ever seen with a kinetic water ram on a bath tub was a flush with finished floor drum trap. My brother pumped up the water ram, and slowly increased pressure and then blammo! The drum trap cover blew off and black sludge all over the walls ceiling and himself.


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Worse thing I ever seen with a kinetic water ram on a bath tub was a flush with finished floor drum trap. My brother pumped up the water ram, and slowly increased pressure and then blammo! The drum trap cover blew off and black sludge all over the walls ceiling and himself.


Somehow I bet you laughed, at least inside.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm a plumber and drain cleaner, I don't use gimmicks like Sully's push over plunger, aerosol plungers, & the Kinetic Water Ram..

How do you think customers perceive the value of someone using a glorified plunger?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Redwood said:


> I'm a plumber and drain cleaner, I don't use gimmicks like Sully's push over plunger, aerosol plungers, & the Kinetic Water Ram..
> 
> How do you think customers perceive the value of someone using a glorified plunger?


I don't think the customer would see it as a glorified plunger. It certainly doesn't look anything like one. Unlike a plunger, they appear to clear blockages past the trap.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> I don't think the customer would see it as a glorified plunger. It certainly doesn't look anything like one. Unlike a plunger, they appear to clear blockages past the trap.


Kinda like hole poking does...

It certainly does not add the value that a proper drain cleaning does...
Not even close to that is perceived by the customer...

One of our guys tried doing that and I assure you we charge $400 for cleaning a line, the complaints rolled in quickly...:blink::laughing:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Kinda like hole poking does...
> 
> It certainly does not add the value that a proper drain cleaning does...
> Not even close to that is perceived by the customer...
> ...


I dont know if it is anything like poking a hole. I don't have one, so I don't know how well it does or doesn't do. You're giving a technician's perspective of what the customer wants and you've not used it either. It obviously has it's merits.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

SewerRatz said:


> Worse thing I ever seen with a kinetic water ram on a bath tub was a flush with finished floor drum trap. My brother pumped up the water ram, and slowly increased pressure and then blammo! The drum trap cover blew off and black sludge all over the walls ceiling and himself.


I learned quickly to keep my foot on the trap cover too!!!


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

ChrisConnor said:


> I dont know if it is anything like poking a hole. I don't have one, so I don't know how well it does or doesn't do. You're giving a technician's perspective of what the customer wants and you've not used it either. It obviously has it's merits.



It's like poking a hole in the sense that it's not cleaning the line. If it works at all, it's only pushing the stoppage. It's not removing buildup from the pipe walls, the line is likely to clog again in short order. 


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Drain Pro said:


> It's like poking a hole in the sense that it's not cleaning the line. If it works at all, it's only pushing the stoppage. It's not removing buildup from the pipe walls, the line is likely to clog again in short order. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> I don't think the customer would see it as a glorified plunger. It certainly doesn't look anything like one. Unlike a plunger, they appear to clear blockages past the trap.


I get sent to a job to clean a drain, not open a drain...
If a drain cannot be cleaned then it becomes a plumbing job...
Most of the time I'll cut out a drum trap and replace it with a p-trap for about what it costs to clean a line...

That certainly has a higher perceived value than pumping up and pulling the trigger on a glorified plunger...


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

I'm with Redwood here. I think it's treating the symptom and not the problem. 


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Drain Pro said:


> It's like poking a hole in the sense that it's not cleaning the line. If it works at all, it's only pushing the stoppage. It's not removing buildup from the pipe walls, the line is likely to clog again in short order.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had a job at a factory that had a second floor lunch room. The lunchroom has a mechanical room that had a clogged floor drain. The mechanical room has a 4" raised step all the way around it, and it had 4" of standing water. I tried to rod it with all sorts of power rodders, the rods would not make the turns in the trap. So I went in the room directly below the mechanical room to have a look at the plumbing. 

Turns out it was a 2" cast iron P-trap with a plug at the bottom of the trap. The problem is that the trap and its cleanout was 30 feet up in the air, and I am in a little closet off a bathroom. So I went upstairs with my water ram, I blasted the water ram into the floor drain. The drain started to drain like Niagara falls, as the huge whirlpool was sucking down the water, I noticed cigarette butts, ear plugs and such being sucked down this drain. It did not plug it up at all. I then used a hose to wash down the area, and ensure the drain was flushed out. I do work at this factory still and this drain has yet to back up, the job was done over 15 years ago.

This proved to me that the water ram does an amazing job and doesn't poke a hole in the blockage.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Alright, I'll admit that I did own one.worked most of if not all the time. I'm a drain cleaning amateur hack at best though.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> I had a job at a factory that had a second floor lunch room. The lunchroom has a mechanical room that had a clogged floor drain. The mechanical room has a 4" raised step all the way around it, and it had 4" of standing water. I tried to rod it with all sorts of power rodders, the rods would not make the turns in the trap. So I went in the room directly below the mechanical room to have a look at the plumbing.
> 
> Turns out it was a 2" cast iron P-trap with a plug at the bottom of the trap. The problem is that the trap and its cleanout was 30 feet up in the air, and I am in a little closet off a bathroom. So I went upstairs with my water ram, I blasted the water ram into the floor drain. The drain started to drain like Niagara falls, as the huge whirlpool was sucking down the water, I noticed cigarette butts, ear plugs and such being sucked down this drain. It did not plug it up at all. I then used a hose to wash down the area, and ensure the drain was flushed out. I do work at this factory still and this drain has yet to back up, the job was done over 15 years ago.
> 
> This proved to me that the water ram does an amazing job and doesn't poke a hole in the blockage.


Alright I was sent to a job at SCSU's Conn Hall which has the campus dining hall on the 2nd floor. Wow! It sounds so familiar...
30' up...
Nicely finished and carpeted area below...
A large volume of water holding above...
And that damn trap just like you had...
Of course that plug won't come out either....

So I did what a plumber does...

I went to the shop and got a helper, ladder, tarps, a pump, hose...
And I did what plumbers do...
If that drain ever plugs up again, there won't be any problems cabling that drain...


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## Roto-Rooter (Jan 31, 2015)

Wish we had some PLUMBERS in my area. NO ONE here REALLY has a license. Just cut and try!!!!!! I am not a plumber as you all know (Just drain sewer cleaning) but I find "T"'s and "Y"'s in the wrong way and plumbed up where I can't go the right way a lot of the time. NEED a GOOD TRUE plumber here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JimmyMac (Nov 4, 2015)

Just another tool to have in the tool box. Personally never used one, similar to a drain king, use them all the time, just have to be prepared for a mess. Have had to use 2 at the same time where there was no way to get rooter through traps, no cleanouts, no vents. If that didn't work, next tool was jackhammer...


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

SewerRatz said:


> I had a job at a factory that had a second floor lunch room. The lunchroom has a mechanical room that had a clogged floor drain. The mechanical room has a 4" raised step all the way around it, and it had 4" of standing water. I tried to rod it with all sorts of power rodders, the rods would not make the turns in the trap. So I went in the room directly below the mechanical room to have a look at the plumbing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With all due respect, you're citing one example. If that convinces you that a water ram does an amazing job and doesn't just poke a hole then maybe you should consider giving up drain cleaning. That thought process would lead me to believe that you don't have a true understanding of how to properly clean a drain. 


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

Drain Pro said:


> With all due respect, you're citing one example. If that convinces you that a water ram does an amazing job and doesn't just poke a hole then maybe you should consider giving up drain cleaning.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Somebody's a bit cranky tonight!

Hell yes, if you don't do it my way, mentality is what shut down another 
great forum.

We all do things differently, give it a rest.


In other news tonight, the fish are biting. 

Had Walleye for dinner and breakfast.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

fixitright said:


> Somebody's a bit cranky tonight!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol. Not cranky at all. I just know how to clean drains and a person that states that an air ram is the proper way to clear a drain does not. I'm a pretty blunt guy so I don't mean any offense. I will tell you this, if I caught my guy clearing stoppages with an air gun, he'd be looking for a new job. 


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

In other news-did you know the kinetic air ram can be used to increase water volume in galvanized systems? Pump that baby up to 80lbs and blast away. If you had nothing before there's a good chance it'll work again. I did a reeeeeal old one the other day. I mean 1895 spout below the overflow old. Hot Only had a trickle-hit that sob 4 or 5 times and now it's as good as the cold. 85% success rate I'd say.


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

Sergeant-of-the-guard, 
Hans Schultz was my hero

He saw Nothing


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Alright I was sent to a job at SCSU's Conn Hall which has the campus dining hall on the 2nd floor. Wow! It sounds so familiar...
> 30' up...
> Nicely finished and carpeted area below...
> A large volume of water holding above...
> ...


Yea, can only do that with the go ahead of the property owners. This factory did not want to spend any other money. 

I have had others like this where the drain was above a library, we set up tarps and plastic cut out the offending fitting and plumbed with a new one and everyone was happy. It to is my preferred way to solve the problem once and for all. 






Drain Pro said:


> With all due respect, you're citing one example. If that convinces you that a water ram does an amazing job and doesn't just poke a hole then maybe you should consider giving up drain cleaning. That thought process would lead me to believe that you don't have a true understanding of how to properly clean a drain.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Buddy, I been cleaning drains since I was 7 years old with my father, I have 39 years experience in drain cleaning. We have more than one style machine and tools on the trucks to clear a drain. On that job I've tried everything we had. The water ram was the last resort before really running up the bill by having to bring in scaffolds and such.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

KoleckeINC said:


> In other news-did you know the kinetic air ram can be used to increase water volume in galvanized systems? Pump that baby up to 80lbs and blast away. If you had nothing before there's a good chance it'll work again. I did a reeeeeal old one the other day. I mean 1895 spout below the overflow old. Hot Only had a trickle-hit that sob 4 or 5 times and now it's as good as the cold. 85% success rate I'd say.


Yep, first time I seen it done was with my father. House had poor pressure to one bathroom. He turn the water off, remove the tub spout open the hot valve, and also have the hot valve open where the water pressure is good, in this case the laundry tub faucet. He'd pump the water ram to 80 psi and give it a few good hits. The laundry tub would be full of rust. We'd turn the water back on and have amazing pressure once again.

I've done this a dozen times myself. Even once when another plumber fixed a broken water service and allowed mud to wash into the pipe. The whole system was screwed up. After giving it a few blasts from different areas we got it all up and running. Had to chlorinate the whole system and replace the water heater. The rooter shop that did the water service was not one bit happy with my bill.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

KoleckeINC said:


> Plug the overflow with a wet rag, use a wet rag around the vac hose to the strainer. Fill sink to the overflow and release-try to vac that water through the strainer of the tub. -airgun tub 1/3 the way full same way-fill sink and release-then blast it. Here's a picture of a duck I got out-with the vacuum. Three other plumbers Rodded before me. All lasted a month or so.


No way that duck got through a tub drain


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

This water ram has liability written all over it. Send a powerful push of air through water or drain system and you may not have an issue then, but what about a week later? Just do the job right. I don't let customers tell me how to do a job.


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> Yep, first time I seen it done was with my father. House had poor pressure to one bathroom. He turn the water off, remove the tub spout open the hot valve, and also have the hot valve open where the water pressure is good, in this case the laundry tub faucet. He'd pump the water ram to 80 psi and give it a few good hits. The laundry tub would be full of rust. We'd turn the water back on and have amazing pressure once again.
> 
> 
> How did you connect the Ram to the water pipe?
> ...


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

The air ram is good for small a/c condensate drains ,refrigerator case drains, and a very last resort in a few situations. That's about it, IMO. 


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Drain Pro said:


> The air ram is good for small a/c condensate drains ,refrigerator case drains, and a very last resort in a few situations. That's about it, IMO.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But a hand spinner is better:laughing:


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

cable or root said:


> But a hand spinner is better:laughing:



I'll tell you what... I use my hand spinner way more than my air ram. 


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

That duck was in the drain. The strainer crosshairs were broke off. How many drain cleaners found shampoo caps-baby wash cloths and hair clips more than once like I have. 

The air ram has a 1/2" male connection. Use a 1/2 by 1/2 hose-galvanized 1/2"tee-3 close nipples-1/2 ball valve-and one 1/2 by whatever your trying to hook up to. The ball valve goes on the side leg of your tee so you can open and check line pressure after you blast it. I reccomend a small tire inflator to pump the gun. I have a 2 Hp craftsman for that.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

While I don't have/use an Air ram, I could see how it would have been useful a few times.

Like a kitchen sink line that I cabled 12 times before it opened.

If an Air ram would open it, I could easily cable it after the water is flowing.

I wonder if you can ram with a cable already in the line?


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Tounces said:


> While I don't have/use an Air ram, I could see how it would have been useful a few times.
> 
> Like a kitchen sink line that I cabled 12 times before it opened.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't all the air from the air ram just go out the vent? What type of machine and cable size are you using to run sinks with?


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

cable or root said:


> Wouldn't all the air from the air ram just go out the vent? What type of machine and cable size are you using to run sinks with?


Spartan 100, 13/32 cable. Usually with a drop head. The line I speak of was "Loaded" though, so the cable passed right through it and came back.

And if the line was filled with water, doesn't the ram travel through the water even with the vent there?

I use a guide tube that's attached to the bottom of the sink, so it's easy to fill the line up to the edge of the tube.


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## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

I use a guide tube that's attached to the bottom of the sink, so it's easy to fill the line up to the edge of the tube.[/QUOTE] 
This sounds very interesting and useful but can you give more detail of how the tube goes in the pipe. In what circumstances do you use this technique ect. How do you attach it to the bottom of the sink?


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

MACK ATTAKK said:


> This sounds very interesting and useful but can you give more detail of how the tube goes in the pipe. In what circumstances do you use this technique ect. How do you attach it to the bottom of the sink?


I might have to upload a picture later, because it's a little hard to explain it fully.

It's a 1.5" PVC Pipe, with a T attached to the middle of it, and a tubular pipe dishwasher hookup(Tailpiece branch T) coming out of the top of the T. At the near end of the pipe, which is to say the one on my side, is a pair of 45s, to create a block for the water. 

What I attach to the bottom of the sink gets a little more complicated, but basically I soldered together a copper reducer and a threaded copper piece, and the reducer fits perfectly inside of a 90 degree piece of tubular pipe, which attaches to the sink, and the threaded copper piece attaches to a small piece of washing machine hose, which then fits inside of the dishwasher hookup.

On the far side of the T is just a simple threaded PVC pipe piece, which I screw onto the waste arm of the sink.

I also have a couple of 45 degree adapters built, in case stuff is in the way, or it points at an awkward angle. I set the entire contraption on a 5 gallon bucket, which also serves to catch the water that comes back when I test it. The bucket also carries all of the parts for the contraption.

Once I upload the picture it'll make more sense I'm sure.

But anyway - I use it ANY time I do a sink, whether it's kitchen or bathroom(I have an adapter for 1 1/4" pipe, and a rubber coupling if it's lead pipe). 

What it does is this - 

1 - Let's me run water when cleaning the line, so that it does a better job.

2 - Lets me know EXACTLY when the line opens up, so that I can work that specific spot.

3 - Saves my back. Because I have a spartan 100 with an autofeed, with this set up I can literally just sit down on a bucket and watch it do 95% of the work.

4 - Impresses the customer. Many customers comment on how much more thorough it seems than "the last guy who did it", and several have told me I should patent my "invention". 

And while it sounds like it takes forever to set up, I can actually hook all of that together in like a couple of minutes. The only time it takes a little longer is if there is like a garbage disposal sitting directly in front of the waste arm or something.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Oh and - I may have invented my own specific set-up, but I certainly can't take credit as the first plumber to have created a guide tube for kitchen sinks. I know there are other plumbers who use them, some even using something as simple as a waste arm with a hole cut into it, which has the advantage of taking only seconds to attach.


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## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

Tounces said:


> I might have to upload a picture later, because it's a little hard to explain it fully. It's a 1.5" PVC Pipe, with a T attached to the middle of it, and a tubular pipe dishwasher hookup(Tailpiece branch T) coming out of the top of the T. At the near end of the pipe, which is to say the one on my side, is a pair of 45s, to create a block for the water. What I attach to the bottom of the sink gets a little more complicated, but basically I soldered together a copper reducer and a threaded copper piece, and the reducer fits perfectly inside of a 90 degree piece of tubular pipe, which attaches to the sink, and the threaded copper piece attaches to a small piece of washing machine hose, which then fits inside of the dishwasher hookup. On the far side of the T is just a simple threaded PVC pipe piece, which I screw onto the waste arm of the sink. I also have a couple of 45 degree adapters built, in case stuff is in the way, or it points at an awkward angle. I set the entire contraption on a 5 gallon bucket, which also serves to catch the water that comes back when I test it. The bucket also carries all of the parts for the contraption. Once I upload the picture it'll make more sense I'm sure. But anyway - I use it ANY time I do a sink, whether it's kitchen or bathroom(I have an adapter for 1 1/4" pipe, and a rubber coupling if it's lead pipe). What it does is this - 1 - Let's me run water when cleaning the line, so that it does a better job. 2 - Lets me know EXACTLY when the line opens up, so that I can work that specific spot. 3 - Saves my back. Because I have a spartan 100 with an autofeed, with this set up I can literally just sit down on a bucket and watch it do 95% of the work. 4 - Impresses the customer. Many customers comment on how much more thorough it seems than "the last guy who did it", and several have told me I should patent my "invention". And while it sounds like it takes forever to set up, I can actually hook all of that together in like a couple of minutes. The only time it takes a little longer is if there is like a garbage disposal sitting directly in front of the waste arm or something.


Sound amazing. Please send pic.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Sounds like what someone on here posted a while ago, I zoomed in and took a screenshot so I can't give them the credit they deserve. I still need to build one.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

I'll take a picture of mine today, it's similar to the one above but I think a little easier to use.

I'm curious what the strap on that one is attached to though?

I just use a bucket, and adjust the height of the bucket as needed.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I can definitely see how the ram would be handy. When we have used air pressure you just plug up the other drains/vents behind the clog and use an air compressor to one. If you want a sudden burst you just put a ball valve between a tank and the pipe you're attaching to. Other than looking fancy to the ignorant the ram looks like a glorified plunger to me. On the other hand if you're not good enough at dealing with customers to explain to them that it is the right tool when it is actually is that's another problem. I can see it being faster than a homemade setup but by how much?

After seeing the price I don't know why you would want one when you could make something just as effective. Twice I have run a hose from the highest psi source I could find to the clogged drain attaching with a jim cap and boiler drain valve. It can be a pain to run hose but it opens the drain which means I can run my snake AND hot water. When it's a kitchen sink line with 20-40' of grease you [pretty much have to have water going if you want the stuff to leave after you chop it. I hate disposals because they all work like garbage. And they always seem to be on long 2" lines run in a drop ceiling above a finished basement, have no pitch and a couple sags.

We have an hour minimum charge, even if that's flicking a switch or breaker, using a good plunger, or turning a valve. I always do what I think is the quickest most effective option even if that means they feel like they called a plumber just to plunge it for them. I am courteous and explain why my plunger works so good, I also tell them that sometimes clogs just need time to soften(you know, cuz of that fancy paper right?). I will say what makes them feel good but I won't make a problem out to be worse than it is. If they can fix it themselves next time without me than good, educating is more important than making a couple more bucks even though I really could use the money.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

P.S. Yes, drain CLEANING and drain OPENING are two different things.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Here's my Kinetic Air Ram...:laughing:


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

skoronesa said:


> P.S. Yes, drain CLEANING and drain OPENING are two different things.


 I have a k-380 I do minimal drain work. It got it for free so no hating on the machine but it lets me down more than it helps


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Tounces said:


> I'll take a picture of mine today, it's similar to the one above but I think a little easier to use.
> 
> I'm curious what the strap on that one is attached to though?
> 
> I just use a bucket, and adjust the height of the bucket as needed.


Edit - I'll take a picture of it soon, been really busy


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