# Another State (Takagi) Issue



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

So this homeowner has been in their new house no more than a week and their tankless water heater has locked out twice. Talking to tech support, figured out the board was bad. From the factory. Swapped it out today, no error codes. Hopefully this fixed the issue









Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

I hear Ya, 20 years ago if you told me I would need to know how to change out a circuit board for plumbing I would have laughed.

About 14 years ago, I had a call for a factory call out on an AO smith commercial WH, in a block house on top of a Court House. Had to have a police escort to access the area, got in, checked for error codes. The number coming up weren't in the manual. Used my radio to contact my shop. The secretary called AO Smith tech support and we bounced message from me, radio to shop, shop on the phone to tech and back again. Found out it was the main board. Took better than a week to get a new to throw in.

I laughed my rear off, thinking about the need for electronics knowledge to plumb......


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

We tend to unsell tankless, but we have one heater that we've been back to four times in the last year. Power vent, no name Home Depot crap that a nephew or someone installed on a Saturday when the old one crapped out. Factory warranty, three years left. Older couple, the hubby has been fighting cancer. Tough choice, keep repairing or replace? Always something in the electronics. I just don't understand reinventing the wheel by making it an octagon.


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Sounds like it needs to be replaced. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Eddy k (Jan 30, 2015)

Wish I had your knowledge for fixing those suckers.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Eddy k said:


> Wish I had your knowledge for fixing those suckers.


Sledgehammer and a tank is how ya fix 'em.


----------



## Eddy k (Jan 30, 2015)

Like 5onthefloor said in another post tons of them being installed and probably not maintained, Lot of money to be made there. Our local Winnelson is trying to get to the next Navien class somewhere in Cali, I thing San Diego.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Eddy k said:


> Like 5onthefloor said in another post tons of them being installed and probably not maintained, Lot of money to be made there. Our local Winnelson is trying to get to the next Navien class somewhere in Cali, I thing San Diego.


That's how we don't sell them. True, lots of money to be made! Most municipalities around me should be on softeners and filters because of water quality. Without all that extra equipment we recommend cleaning them every three months. People rarely change their smoke detector batteries every time change, or flush their tank heater, they're most certainly not going to service their tankless every few months.

Don't get me wrong, when my power vent goes I'm going tankless.


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Yah I think we are getting to one of those generation shifts, like when residential went away from cast to pvc. Tankless are way more complicated but they are becoming so mainstream we as service plumbers have to bite the bullet and get comfortable with servicing and diagnosing these units. I have tech manuals that help me with identifying the error codes. I'll do my checks and then call tech support if I need more assistance. That can be the annoying part especially the waiting. I still don't get why we are installing these units in the attic so it can be aggravating trying to work on a unit in a 130 degrees of stupid heat. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

5onthefloor said:


> I still don't get why we are installing these units in the attic so it can be aggravating trying to work on a unit in a 130 degrees of stupid heat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


That's nuts...........

At the very least when doing that, building codes will require a light & service receptacle to maintain it.

Scuttle hole large enough to get a new one in (of course).

If you can't reach it from the scuttle hole, a raised platform should be provided to reach it so the required insulation is not disturbed (listed in the IECC).


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Oh yeah that's the other annoying thing. Attic access is up three flights of stairs in closet. High ceiling so 8ft ladder needed I had to snake that through their condo without touching any walls, would be easier except they have those baby gates at each landing. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Oh and the computer board connectors are each different so there was no way to connect them backwards. That was nice and easy

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

5onthefloor said:


> Yah I think we are getting to one of those generation shifts, like when residential went away from cast to pvc. Tankless are way more complicated but they are becoming so mainstream we as service plumbers have to bite the bullet and get comfortable with servicing and diagnosing these units. I have tech manuals that help me with identifying the error codes. I'll do my checks and then call tech support if I need more assistance. That can be the annoying part especially the waiting. I still don't get why we are installing these units in the attic so it can be aggravating trying to work on a unit in a 130 degrees of stupid heat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


When you're working in a hot attic, disconnect an air conditioning duct and aim at you. Just make sure you know how to properly reinstall it when you're done.


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Debo22 said:


> When you're working in a hot attic, disconnect an air conditioning duct and aim at you. Just make sure you know how to properly reinstall it when you're done.


Yah 2 things on that:
We were told specifically NOT to do that. They gave us fans but then it just blows hot air in your face!
Other thing is a large number of homeowners I service don't run their AC units. I've noticed it's mostly folks of a certain culture but won't say which here since I don't want to shoot off on a tangent. Now in the home it's not so ad since the living areas are insulated well but that attic gets way hotter. If it was up to me I'd poke a hole in that duct!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

OpenSights said:


> That's how we don't sell them. True, lots of money to be made! Most municipalities around me should be on softeners and filters because of water quality. Without all that extra equipment we recommend cleaning them every three months. People rarely change their smoke detector batteries every time change, or flush their tank heater, they're most certainly not going to service their tankless every few months.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, when my power vent goes I'm going tankless.


Heck bro, I don't flush my own water heater! I've even got a used Navien sitting in the garage but I gotta run electrical to power it so waiting on that

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Debo22 said:


> When you're working in a hot attic, disconnect an air conditioning duct and aim at you. Just make sure you know how to properly reinstall it when you're done.



I have Always wondered what the max temp is that a tankless circuit board can handle in a hot attic??? it does not seem like that is the best place to install one..... 

they are all basically junk .....I just got some a-hole who gave me a bad review on YELP for not wanting to install an electric tankless heater for him.....\\

Our dumb ass society has been brainwashed with the idea that they are great so its gonna be a lot more troubles with maintaince on them


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> I have Always wondered what the max temp is that a tankless circuit board can handle in a hot attic??? it does not seem like that is the best place to install one.....
> 
> they are all basically junk .....I just got some a-hole who gave me a bad review on YELP for not wanting to install an electric tankless heater for him.....\\
> 
> Our dumb ass society has been brainwashed with the idea that they are great so its gonna be a lot more troubles with maintaince on them


I don't think circuit boards have an issue with attic heat. Most furnaces are installed in attics nowadays and they all have circuit boards with no problems.


----------



## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

Debo22 said:


> Master Mark said:
> 
> 
> > I have Always wondered what the max temp is that a tankless circuit board can handle in a hot attic??? it does not seem like that is the best place to install one.....
> ...


According to Wikipedia, standard electronic operating goes as high as 185° (Fahrenheit obviously. And for you people that don't have a flag on the moon, that's 85° Celsius)

So, typically it has to go above 185 before you start having serious problems. I'm sure the heat really just wears down the electronics simply because of stress, though.


----------



## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

Debo22 said:


> Master Mark said:
> 
> 
> > I have Always wondered what the max temp is that a tankless circuit board can handle in a hot attic??? it does not seem like that is the best place to install one.....
> ...


That being said, aren't furnaces also designed so that if they reach a certain temperature, they lock up so you can't use it at all, simply for the sake of saving the circuit board?


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Man I been drinkin tonight so I'll check back in mañana homies 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Nazareth said:


> According to Wikipedia, standard electronic operating goes as high as 185° (Fahrenheit obviously. And for you people that don't have a flag on the moon, that's 85° Celsius)
> 
> So, typically it has to go above 185 before you start having serious problems. I'm sure the heat really just wears down the electronics simply because of stress, though.



Thanks for the info.... I bet they still could sweat like pigs from condensation being at very high room temps...... 

of course I guess that they planned for this and those circuit boards are not ever gonna be getting wet from all the sweating that would be happenning in a 155 degree attic 

I am not gonna get up to speed on these things, because we are busy enough already without having to re-learn the wheel.... 

I guess that everyone loves a challenge and dealing with one of those in someones attic is where I would throw in the towel and walk away...:yes::yes:.


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Master Mark said:


> Thanks for the info.... I bet they still could sweat like pigs from condensation being at very high room temps......
> 
> of course I guess that they planned for this and those circuit boards are not ever gonna be getting wet from all the sweating that would be happenning in a 155 degree attic
> 
> ...


Some days I wish I could. Until then I have to work on em. I am one of 3 techs my boss trusts with tankless heaters. I have patience and usually get the diagnosis correct. Got a couple today. Had a Rinnai last night that was making strange noises but if course it didn't do it while I was there. Check out the install tho 









Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Love the pan! That's thinking on the fly!

I have a buddy that lived in the Huston are I think. He worked for AT&T installing uverse. Always complained about working in atics.


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Yah that is one fantastic listed and approved drain pan! That hose is the condensate dripping into it that is why it's all rusted. SMH

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Where does the relief drain go to? for our area the drain (whether a FD or hub drain) has to be in the same room.

Tell me there is no door in front of it.


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

GAN said:


> Where does the relief drain go to? for our area the drain (whether a FD or hub drain) has to be in the same room.
> 
> Tell me there is no door in front of it.


It's a pier and beam home so they make us terminate to the exterior, can't drop in under house for obvious reasons. No door I did not get a good photo but this is like a small spice rack closet that's off a hallway with no door. Kinda weird but that is how they ran this. Not our install. Our company actually has a fabrication dept that can make drain pans for situations like this 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

5onthefloor said:


> It's a pier and beam home so they make us terminate to the exterior, can't drop in under house for obvious reasons. No door I did not get a good photo but this is like a small spice rack closet that's off a hallway with no door. Kinda weird but that is how they ran this. Not our install. Our company actually has a fabrication dept that can make drain pans for situations like this
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Ah, Illinois you can't run a relief to the exterior, it must be indirect to an FD, Service sink or HD.


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

GAN said:


> Ah, Illinois you can't run a relief to the exterior, it must be indirect to an FD, Service sink or HD.


Yah here it just can't cause damage to interior. Terminated to outside is acceptable 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------

