# How do you get



## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

your employees to keep their vans clean?
Terrific workers, but I am ready to call the health dept. on them.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Some plumbers like to be clean and organized and some don't?

I have heard of shops that pay a slightly lower wage and give a bonus that eqauls a slightly better wage for doing what they want?


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

newyorkcity said:


> your employees to keep their vans clean?
> Terrific workers, but I am ready to call the health dept. on them.




Contest and competition amongst their peers....end of week give a 20 gas card to the winner.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Keeping a clean van is sometimes hard even with the best of intentions. The worst is when your van is perfectly clean, you know you have a part and turn your van upside down looking for it. By then the van looks like a tornado hit it!


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Make it a requirement just like the other things you demand. If you're concerned about your company's image, it's something you should look at. Do you expect your employees to be clean and well kept? Do you expect them to clean up their mess when at the customer's house? Why not expect them to keep the van clean? 




The more topics I see like this one make me realize I would probably be a horrible person to work for. 


Paul


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

We have a helper or 2 that just loves to throw everything in the side door. Nothing in the back, but the side is packed to the roof. :furious:


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

house plumber said:


> We have a helper or 2 that just loves to throw everything in the side door. Nothing in the back, but the side is packed to the roof. :furious:



Might need to sit the helpers down and explain their job duties/expectations. As far as I am concerned, part of the helper's job is to keep the vans tidy and ready to roll. Lost or buried inventory is a money waster.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Speaking as a plumber who's van is usually a wreck I would say that if it is important to you, then set time aside for them to do it on company time.

If you expect them to run from one call to the next at 5 miles over the speed limit all day, everyday and also expect them to clean up and reorganize their vans every evening on their own time...then I would say you're going to be frustrated.



Also, having admitted that my van is rarely very neat on the inside (and thus it's only fair to be suspicious of my opinion )...I have found that the plumbers with the cleanest tools, pants, and vans are usually doing the least work.


Also, also it could be that they are in undersized vans. I recently changed jobs and moved from a dually box van with outside boxes to a panel van. When I had places to put all my tools _and_ materials (in the larger van) I wasn't nearly as "messy". Now that I have to pile the tools and materials in on top of one another it's really nearly impossible to make it look good.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

PinkPlumber said:


> Might need to sit the helpers down and explain their job duties/expectations. As far as I am concerned, part of the helper's job is to keep the vans tidy and ready to roll. Lost or buried inventory is a money waster.


Trust me I have. I told em that back in the day we had to clean it, stock it, load it, fittings and pipe, tie pipe by myself and not need another guy to tie the front at the same time. Fill the water jug. No crooked cuts on pvc. The dont understand what could happen when the cut they gave you looks like a 45.


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

Im an employee of a large plumbing company and take great pride in keeping my truck and my uniform clean as well as my work area and customers home clean. I clean my truck as I go. Everything is organized in my shelving units. As for the outside we have a contract with a car wash anytime i need a wash i run through it sign and leave!


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Speaking as a plumber who's van is usually a wreck I would say that if it is important to you, then set time aside for them to do it on company time.
> 
> If you expect them to run from one call to the next at 5 miles over the speed limit all day, everyday and also expect them to clean up and reorganize their vans every evening on their own time...then I would say you're going to be frustrated.
> 
> ...


I find that the guys with the dirtiest trucks uniforms are usually in a rush and are hackjobs lol


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Pinnacle said:


> I find that the guys with the dirtiest trucks uniforms are usually in a rush and are hackjobs lol


Heh...retaliatory slap down accepted with a grin :thumbup:

But seriously...look at what your plumbers are trying to fit in the van. It's possible they are slobs, but also possible you've got them in undersized vans in which case you'll have to grin and bare it until you get them a van that makes organization a more reasonable expectation.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Pinnacle said:


> I find that the guys with the dirtiest trucks uniforms are usually in a rush and are hackjobs lol


Ever stop to think about why us dirty guys are always rushing? Because we're busy. My truck is beyond messy, I would put my work up against yours any day. Between cleaning the job, testing for leaks, invoicing, collecting payments, scheduling appointments, solving problems, fixing stuff and accounting cleaning my truck isn't high on the list. I would take a messy guy like myself that can slam bid work out at a high quality and hire some grunt to clean up after him over someone who's more concerned with getting a stain on their neatly pressed uniform or getting a tool dirty. Plumbing is a messy profession, if you don't want to get dirty perhaps consider an office job.

I show up to jobs looking neat and professional. I don't wear any life's hard party naked T's or anything. I have dickies work pants with a matching pocket T, and yes, they have stains on them. When they get too dirty or full of holes, they get cycled out. I'm not extremely concerned with looking like I could sit in a boardroom. Within 30 seconds of me speaking about their problem it's obvious to 99.9% of customers that I'm the right man for the job. You can keep your time spent cleaning up, I'll keep that time working jobs and making money. Then when my truck gets too dirty I'll pay someone 10 bucks an hour to completely clean it. Who cares if it takes a full day, the time I save equals thousands of dollars not doing it myself.


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> Ever stop to think about why us dirty guys are always rushing? Because we're busy. My truck is beyond messy, I would put my work up against yours any day. Between cleaning the job, testing for leaks, invoicing, collecting payments, scheduling appointments, solving problems, fixing stuff and accounting cleaning my truck isn't high on the list. I would take a messy guy like myself that can slam bid work out at a high quality and hire some grunt to clean up after him over someone who's more concerned with getting a stain on their neatly pressed uniform or getting a tool dirty. Plumbing is a messy profession, if you don't want to get dirty perhaps consider an office job.
> 
> I show up to jobs looking neat and professional. I don't wear any life's hard party naked T's or anything. I have dickies work pants with a matching pocket T, and yes, they have stains on them. When they get too dirty or full of holes, they get cycled out. I'm not extremely concerned with looking like I could sit in a boardroom. Within 30 seconds of me speaking about their problem it's obvious to 99.9% of customers that I'm the right man for the job. You can keep your time spent cleaning up, I'll keep that time working jobs and making money. Then when my truck gets too dirty I'll pay someone 10 bucks an hour to completely clean it. Who cares if it takes a full day, the time I save equals thousands of dollars not doing it myself.


What you just said is a complete load of bs lol your unorganized plain and simple! no if ands or buts about it. I know where everything is in my truck and i know what i have and dont have everything is accessible and instead of wiping dope on my pants rather than on a rag doesnt make you busy. I get many service calls in a day like i said and at the end of my day everything is how it should be neat in my truck and same for the cab. Instead of rushing to your nuext service call take the extra 2 mins to wrap up an extension cord or put something back in its place.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Pinnacle said:


> What you just said is a complete load of bs lol your unorganized plain and simple! no if ands or buts about it. I know where everything is in my truck and i know what i have and dont have everything is accessible and instead of wiping dope on my pants rather than on a rag doesnt make you busy. I get many service calls in a day like i said and at the end of my day everything is how it should be neat in my truck and same for the cab. Instead of rushing to your nuext service call take the extra 2 mins to wrap up an extension cord or put something back in its place.


Who said I didn't know where everything was in my truck? No I don't purposely wipe dope on my pants, but if it does get on there I won't spend 10 min trying to get it off. When you're in a bathroom chase or a crawlspace, you're gonna get dirt on you. If you get 4 service calls a day, and spend and extra 2 min cleaning up, you can squeeze one more call in that time frame by the end of the week. IDK about you but, my hourly rate is much higher than a shop kids. If I can get one more call a week even, which is more likely 3 more calls as it takes more than 2 min to clean up if you're doing a repipe or something that requires more tools than a pair of channelocks and a screwdriver, I'm ahead by being messy all week then paying someone to clean my truck.


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

Im not that anal about keeping myself clean to where it affects my work but I take my time and I put things back where they should be thus at the end of the day everything is in order and clean thats what this thread is about. Take the extra time to put things back and the truck stays clean. I dont rush to do calls either. Even when i glue pipe i take my time and wipe each joit so you see a nice bead of glue i dont just slop it together. All Im saying is take your time and if employees take the extra time to put things back their trucks and equipment stay clean and last longer.


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

Another thing is i dont like people touching my tools or material. lol


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

In my van I try to prepare for the worst, which means many random parts. I try to carry the staples and lots of rare parts which always end up strangely @ the back of the drawers! In that case a little crap is always good!:thumbup:


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

pilot light said:


> In my van I try to prepare for the worst, which means many random parts. I try to carry the stables and lots of rare parts which always end up strangely @ the back of the drawers! In that case a little crap is always good!:thumbup:


:thumbup: We have 24hr suppliers down here so i never go with out im sure you guys have Noble in BC as well? They have after hours service. I only keep material i use on an everyday basis if i need a specialty parts the supplier is a hop skip and jump away.


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## Everflow (Feb 1, 2010)

I'm the boss, and I sign the checks enough said.


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## [email protected] (Apr 17, 2012)

i drive a 3500 chevy express and its hard as hell to keep clean but for the most part i have no choice because of the work that i do mostly. i have to fit material etc in my truck and unload it at jobs but every 4-5 weeks im on call 24-7 that week and ill tell ya at 1 or 2 am i really dont care, i want to go home ill throw my crap in the back of my van and clean it all up at the end of the week. expecially when im the guy running the bigger jobs and i have no choice but to be at the job at 6am to unlock the connex and gangboxes for the guys i cant just sleep in an extra couple hours.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Pinnacle said:


> :thumbup: We have 24hr suppliers down here so i never go with out im sure you guys have Noble in BC as well? They have after hours service. I only keep material i use on an everyday basis if i need a specialty parts the supplier is a hop skip and jump away.


 Never heard of them ! I have a couple of sources which will do it! I live on the island so we usually call friends for parts and trade on sunday when the wholesalers are closed in their parking lots. It always comes back around so we pay it foreward then! Whats the 1-800-#!


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

pilot light said:


> Never heard of them ! I have a couple of sources which will do it! I live on the island so we usually call friends for parts and trade on sunday when the wholesalers are closed in their parking lots. It always comes back around so we pay it foreward then! Whats the 1-800-#!


shoot yea your in victoria they have six locations in BC not on the island though unfortunately. the website is Noble.ca Best plumbing supplier in ontario and BC hands down. They have everything you need when you need it and if not theyll get it the next day. call the vancouver branch youll get the after hours number there.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

cool! i have not searched yet but my brother on pender island is on a ferry right now looking for parts! Milk run too!:yes: 3 hrs!


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

As an employer, I would tell your employees your priorities as your priorities and their's should mirror each other. As a boss and subordinate, I would recommend you tell them your expectation but not how to do the task. Example...The trucks will be inspected at the end of the workday before you leave, no pay if staying late to clean van/truck as this should be done during the workday. 

I have a clean(ish) van and I thinks it's because I mentally tell myself to put the tool/material away after each use. It's so tempting to toss it in the bucket by the door but I have make a consienous effort to keep the van clean. Knowing that it's my van and tools does help.

I also believe it's easier to keep my van clean because of how I have it organized, tons of shelves and pull out trays.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

I always cut a deal with my employer to use my own truck and tools, even when I was doing service work, a set sum per day paid in cash at the end of each week.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Pinnacle said:


> shoot yea your in victoria they have six locations in BC not on the island though unfortunately. the website is Noble.ca Best plumbing supplier in ontario and BC hands down. They have everything you need when you need it and if not theyll get it the next day. call the vancouver branch youll get the after hours number there.


Agreed, Noble trade is awesome! I jave tshirts a plenty!


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## robwilliams (May 6, 2011)

PinkPlumber said:


> Contest and competition amongst their peers....end of week give a 20 gas card to the winner.


 
You actually pay someone to keep a van clean when they are already paid a salary? Not me, not in this life. I explain to my employees when they are hired, they keep the vans clean and neat, inside and out. If not, they can go work somewhere else.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

Tell your Guys its part of the service call, you leave the shop the van is clean and tidy. Before you leave the service call and before you write the ticket take the time to put the van back the way it was. Works well for me and helps when you get to the next job and you open the door to the van and everything is where it should be.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Plumbdog said:


> Tell your Guys its part of the service call, you leave the shop the van is clean and tidy. Before you leave the service call and before you write the ticket take the time to put the van back the way it was. Works well for me and helps when you get to the next job and you open the door to the van and everything is where it should be.


This is howI do it! It was put away when I got here and it will be put away when I leave no matter how much it costs ya!:laughing:


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

robwilliams said:


> You actually pay someone to keep a van clean when they are already paid a salary? Not me, not in this life. I explain to my employees when they are hired, they keep the vans clean and neat, inside and out. If not, they can go work somewhere else.


I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately. I already have all my own tools top to bottom and only ask for a van to go to work, but right now I've been given a van that is totally inadequate for what I need.

The problem with supplying my own van and leasing it to my shop would be signage. I imagine they wouldn't be keen on paying for signage for a van that's not theirs (and I wouldn't be keen on paying to have it removed if and when I move on). 

Magnetic signage is illegal for plumbers in Texas, so that's out as well.

Probably have to quit dragging my feet and stand for the Master's exam soon or change shops *shrugs*.

I really hate quitting on employers, though...it makes me feel bad :sad:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

All my stuff is neat & clean & in order, so I can be productive at the job when I arrive. I put everything back in its place, & write down all the items I need to restock, (on a scratch pad I have readilly accessible in back), which takes no more than 30 seconds usually, shake out all the tarps, fold em back up & put away, clean out vac, ect..., pick up my invoice pad, walk back into house, & this is the point then when the clock stops for that job.

Now I walk out, & everything is in its place so I can be productive at next job, or tomorrow. Not saying I am perfect, or Mr clean, cuz I rarely wash my truck, but I am anal, when it comes to organization. I believe that if your organized, you don't have to run around like a one legged man, in an a$$ kicking contest, to be productive, & profitable. But I got a box van, & a place for everything too. Never could work out of one of those reg vans, but thats just me.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> All my stuff is neat & clean & in order, so I can be productive at the job when I arrive. I put everything back in its place, & write down all the items I need to restock, (on a scratch pad I have readilly accessible in back), which takes no more than 30 seconds usually, shake out all the tarps, fold em back up & put away, clean out vac, ect..., pick up my invoice pad, walk back into house, & this is the point then when the clock stops for that job.
> 
> Now I walk out, & everything is in its place so I can be productive at next job, or tomorrow. Not saying I am perfect, or Mr clean, cuz I rarely wash my truck, but I am anal, when it comes to organization. I believe that if your organized, you don't have to run around like a one legged man, in an a$$ kicking contest, to be productive, & profitable. But I got a box van, & a place for everything too. Never could work out of one of those reg vans, but thats just me.



This :thumbsup:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> All my stuff is neat & clean & in order, so I can be productive at the job when I arrive. I put everything back in its place, & write down all the items I need to restock, (on a scratch pad I have readilly accessible in back), which takes no more than 30 seconds usually, shake out all the tarps, fold em back up & put away, clean out vac, ect..., pick up my invoice pad, walk back into house, & this is the point then when the clock stops for that job.
> 
> Now I walk out, & everything is in its place so I can be productive at next job, or tomorrow. Not saying I am perfect, or Mr clean, cuz I rarely wash my truck, but I am anal, when it comes to organization. I believe that if your organized, you don't have to run around like a one legged man, in an a$$ kicking contest, to be productive, & profitable. But I got a box van, & a place for everything too. Never could work out of one of those reg vans, but thats just me.


Yeah I would be neat with one of those. I use a pickup truck. Not even enough room for alk my tools.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

OK....I had 4 trucks going when things were great here. I had one guy that would nto clean his truck no matter what. It was simple, i let my wife take it once to be serviced. She came back and spent 4 hrs cleaning the cab only!! She told the plumber that if she ever got in that truck again and it was like it was he would be fired on the spot! 

Now that i have had to reduce the trucks and all. I got them back all dirty and what have ya. I can tell you that if your truck inst clean. You do not know the stock you have on your truck at all. Do you know how many 4" pressure gages i found on the trucks??? how about caulking guns??? Anyone need a caulking gun?? i got 24 of them in all colors!! 

Bottom line it is costing you to be a slob and not clean your truck. It is also a reflection on the type of work you do. Yeah i said it..If you have a sloppy truck you im more cases do sloppy work. Didnt say you didnt know what your doing... just saying your sloppy. 

Clean your truck and wash it!! watch how your customer will notice it. I know i just made some guys mad but, its up to us to change the publics image of us plumbers. 

Im off my soap box now...Let the arrows begin!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Posted bunch of these before, so don't want to bore you all, so just showed a few repeats.Got 210 drawers, that are all full. I been critisized for carrying too much stuff, but thats the way I roll.

Got a brand new truck coming in a few weeks, so I will post a bunch of pics, when I get it set up.

I don't hear too many guys ever talk about drop cloths either. I put a drop cloth down at most every job. I got clean ones, not so clean ones, dirty ones, & brand new ones, for the ultra clean jobs. Must have atleast 20 or more, drop cloths. Another thing I carry a variety of, is access panels. Used 2 of them just yesterday. Had to replace 2 outside hose bibs, in basement ceiling, which was drywalled. Cut in 2 - 9X9 access panels, & installed new shut offs, up in ceiling, & also gave me access to r & r outside hose bib. Finished product when I got done. Buy these by the box, at the Depot.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Here is a pic of open drawers. Wish I had room for 30 more drawers. Some odd & end items, & stuff like that, I always find it easier to locate, & keep track of how many ya got, if it is in a drawer, as opposed to flopping around on shelves. I also carpeted the inside of all the shelving units, to keep the noise down.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Here is a pic of open drawers. Wish I had room for 30 more drawers. Some odd & end items, & stuff like that, I always find it easier to locate, & keep track of how many ya got, if it is in a drawer, as opposed to flopping around on shelves. I also carpeted the inside of all the shelving units, to keep the noise down.


Looks sharp!! life is so much pleasurable when you have it clean and know what you have and dont have.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Go down to the local pet store and buy a dozen feeder rats. Put them in the van and close the door. Point made :thumbsup:


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

Keep a running list, hang it in plain sight with a pencil attached.

Every time you take something off the truck, write it down.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Here is a pic of open drawers. Wish I had room for 30 more drawers. Some odd & end items, & stuff like that, I always find it easier to locate, & keep track of how many ya got, if it is in a drawer, as opposed to flopping around on shelves. I also carpeted the inside of all the shelving units, to keep the noise down.


That is awesome I wish I had the room you do! Where did you get the drawers? Also Where and how do you keep your pvc fittings?


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> That is awesome I wish I had the room you do! Where did you get the drawers? Also Where and how do you keep your pvc fittings?


Right here is where I keep 1.5" & 2" ftgs. Got just 1 barrel of 3" pvc fittings. Bring the rest when I need to. I don't do any new const. Got the drawers from American Van. All the shelves I had custom made. I got 6 sections like this.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Go down to the local pet store and buy a dozen feeder rats. Put them in the van and close the door. Point made :thumbsup:


Wouldn't that cause your van, to be vapor locked?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

victoryplbaz said:


> OK....I had 4 trucks going when things were great here. I had one guy that would nto clean his truck no matter what. It was simple, i let my wife take it once to be serviced. She came back and spent 4 hrs cleaning the cab only!! She told the plumber that if she ever got in that truck again and it was like it was he would be fired on the spot!
> 
> Now that i have had to reduce the trucks and all. I got them back all dirty and what have ya. I can tell you that if your truck inst clean. You do not know the stock you have on your truck at all. Do you know how many 4" pressure gages i found on the trucks??? how about caulking guns??? Anyone need a caulking gun?? i got 24 of them in all colors!!
> 
> ...


I had messy trucks working for other companies when I did. They didn't like it but, didn't make a federal case out of it because I made money. I could run circles around their other plumbers. Give me a pile of tools and a big mess and I will still be faster and better than 80% of guys out there. I've seen it first hand. Believe it or not, not all messy plumbers do sloppy work. I take pride in my work and it's done as good as it can be done. Being neat to the point of anal retentive also reflects on your work. It shows me where your priorities are. I've worked with plenty of neat and clean plumbers, that had call back percentages twice mine. They would send me to fix Mr. neat's sub par work.

Don't pigeon hole all of us messy guys into a lousy category. Most of the best plumbers I've worked with had messy trucks. I know the stock on my truck. Also, I could care less of the public's opinion of plumbers. I care what my customer's think about me, and my company. My reputation is very good and most of my work is repeat business or referrals. No one seems to care about what's in the bed of my truck, except fellow plumbers who think that somehow makes them better plumbers. I don't have to rely on truck stock, as I'm good enough to make a material list and not screw myself with needing extra things. I'm a T&M shop and I don't mark up material, I charge time to run to the wholesale house and back. It seems to work better because I can hand someone my supply house receipt they don't question the high material price. 

Being neat works for you. That's great but, it doesn't work for everyone. Having a truck that isn't organized optimally, works for me. I can get to the job fast enough, and I don't stock enough materials for me to lose them. That works for me. It doesn't make you any neater than I. My work is some of the best available. I would put my jobs up against anyone here.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> I had messy trucks working for other companies when I did. They didn't like it but, didn't make a federal case out of it because I made money. I could run circles around their other plumbers. Give me a pile of tools and a big mess and I will still be faster and better than 80% of guys out there. I've seen it first hand. Believe it or not, not all messy plumbers do sloppy work. I take pride in my work and it's done as good as it can be done. Being neat to the point of anal retentive also reflects on your work. It shows me where your priorities are. I've worked with plenty of neat and clean plumbers, that had call back percentages twice mine. They would send me to fix Mr. neat's sub par work.
> 
> Don't pigeon hole all of us messy guys into a lousy category. Most of the best plumbers I've worked with had messy trucks. I know the stock on my truck. Also, I could care less of the public's opinion of plumbers. I care what my customer's think about me, and my company. My reputation is very good and most of my work is repeat business or referrals. No one seems to care about what's in the bed of my truck, except fellow plumbers who think that somehow makes them better plumbers. I don't have to rely on truck stock, as I'm good enough to make a material list and not screw myself with needing extra things. I'm a T&M shop and I don't mark up material, I charge time to run to the wholesale house and back. It seems to work better because I can hand someone my supply house receipt they don't question the high material price.
> 
> Being neat works for you. That's great but, it doesn't work for everyone. Having a truck that isn't organized optimally, works for me. I can get to the job fast enough, and I don't stock enough materials for me to lose them. That works for me. It doesn't make you any neater than I. My work is some of the best available. I would put my jobs up against anyone here.


Ok fair enough.. But i got to say.... Your customers are the public. Just because they are your customer dont mean they dont see the other guys with clean trucks. Wait till it drips oil on a driveway and you have to clean it up. Im not saying your truck is leaking oil or looks like Sanford and Sons. But there are guys out there like that and it gives us a bad name and makes them think we are just dumb. I saw a truck at a supply house last week that had a bungee cord holding the door on it. Do you think that is proffessional or gives a customer a comforting feeling. By the way i had seen it before about 6 months ago with that bungee cord holding it. I dont drive new trucks, mine are used but i clean them up and make them look as good as anyother company with new truck running around. 

Im now a one truck shop and i do T&M too but i still make time to clean my truck and wash it and take care of it. Without it i will not be working or making money. Right now its in the bodyshop due to someone hit me at a stoplight. Sure i could had not fixed it and drove it like it was. But i would know and it would bug me that it wasnt like it should be. Im going crazy in a rental because i dont have stock on the truck. I could had ran a copper line for a customer today if i had my truck. But because they didnt have the time to wait for me to run to the supply house and get the parts and come back, I dont get to do it now. They will wait till another time or they may not do it. 

We do have to help change the publics view of us plumbers.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I call it organized chaos.

 I know where everything is and I can tell anyone where it is located in my truck. Of our 6 plumbers I am the ONLY one that does not have to run to the supply house to make minor repairs. I have never had to call for anyone to bring me an angle shutoff valve or some other stupid item that should have been ion the truck.

The truck will get cleaned when I am retired or forced to give up working in the field. By the way my truck is the least in the shop getting repaired, having tires replace prematurely, and breaking down. When I am not in a truck working I am not getting paid as I have no work. This is more important than a clean truck.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Might need to sit the helpers down and explain their job duties/expectations. As far as I am concerned, part of the helper's job is to keep the vans tidy and ready to roll. Lost or buried inventory is a money waster.



Sounds like I would have them walking there rears home after the first time I pulled it out and told him to put it where it goes.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I feel at a [email protected] shop the cleaning and organizing should be done on the customers time. At a fr shop as well the time to put things away and wrap up a job should be figured in to the job cost. The cleaning of the van should not be something the owner of the shop pays for. It should be payed for job by job by the customer. This holds the same for one man shops. The couple of min. u save on the job will be lost when you spend a saturday cleaning the truck ( it will need cleaned ).

I don't see how an argument can be made that the same tech with a clean and organized truck will be more productive than a tech with organized chaos. Just because you know where everything is doesn't mean u can get to it as fast.

I am definetly a Hippocratef!!!!!

Not the side I expected you to be on Richard lol.


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## Narin (May 2, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> I had messy trucks working for other companies when I did. They didn't like it but, didn't make a federal case out of it because I made money. I could run circles around their other plumbers. Give me a pile of tools and a big mess and I will still be faster and better than 80% of guys out there. I've seen it first hand. Believe it or not, not all messy plumbers do sloppy work. I take pride in my work and it's done as good as it can be done. Being neat to the point of anal retentive also reflects on your work. It shows me where your priorities are. I've worked with plenty of neat and clean plumbers, that had call back percentages twice mine. They would send me to fix Mr. neat's sub par work.
> 
> Don't pigeon hole all of us messy guys into a lousy category. Most of the best plumbers I've worked with had messy trucks. I know the stock on my truck. Also, I could care less of the public's opinion of plumbers. I care what my customer's think about me, and my company. My reputation is very good and most of my work is repeat business or referrals. No one seems to care about what's in the bed of my truck, except fellow plumbers who think that somehow makes them better plumbers. I don't have to rely on truck stock, as I'm good enough to make a material list and not screw myself with needing extra things. I'm a T&M shop and I don't mark up material, I charge time to run to the wholesale house and back. It seems to work better because I can hand someone my supply house receipt they don't question the high material price.
> 
> Being neat works for you. That's great but, it doesn't work for everyone. Having a truck that isn't organized optimally, works for me. I can get to the job fast enough, and I don't stock enough materials for me to lose them. That works for me. It doesn't make you any neater than I. My work is some of the best available. I would put my jobs up against anyone here.


Yes, but imagine how much better you could be if your van was clean, neat and organized.


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

I start each day with complete order. By the end of some days. It is a total mess. No way to help it. If i am finishing up a replumb. than have a few sewer calls in there also. It just not in me to have everything in its proper place at the end of the day


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

beachplumber said:


> I feel at a [email protected] shop the cleaning and organizing should be done on the customers time. At a fr shop as well the time to put things away and wrap up a job should be figured in to the job cost. The cleaning of the van should not be something the owner of the shop pays for. It should be payed for job by job by the customer. This holds the same for one man shops. The couple of min. u save on the job will be lost when you spend a saturday cleaning the truck ( it will need cleaned ).
> 
> I don't see how an argument can be made that the same tech with a clean and organized truck will be more productive than a tech with organized chaos. Just because you know where everything is doesn't mean u can get to it as fast.
> 
> ...



Some people cant function with clean and orderly things


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## Shanesplumbing (Mar 14, 2012)

affordabledrain said:


> Some people cant function with clean and orderly things


 
Those people are called hoarders. They have shows about them and shrinks for them.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Narin said:


> Yes, but imagine how much better you could be if your van was clean, neat and organized.


I would mess it upon the first day. I focus all my attention on the task at hand, or getting to the next one. My truck gets cleaned and organized often enough, I just pay someone else to do it. It's not in my nature to be neat.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Our first priority is to get the job done..... That is were the money is....

Cleaning the inside of the trucks are way down on the list

Actually a few times after we cleaned out the trucks we were always short on specialty fittings because during the cleaning it was removed from the trucks

So ... The thing is some times there is an advantage of having lots of stuff in the truck to the point were it looks messy

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Our first priority is to get the job done..... That is were the money is....
> 
> Cleaning the inside of the trucks are way down on the list
> 
> ...


Sounds like somebody is in denial. If you work out of a trashed vehicle and it takes say an extra 30 sec to a min to find a fitting than it would if you were organized and then you multiply that the thousands of times that happens per year and then multiply that the # employees... we're talking a serious loss of production and $$$$


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumbdog said:


> Sounds like somebody is in denial. If you work out of a trashed vehicle and it takes say an extra 30 sec to a min to find a fitting than it would if you were organized and then you multiply that the thousands of times that happens per year and then multiply that the # employees... we're talking a serious loss of production and $$$$


Not really.....

We charge for everything.... Don't have it in the truck ... We charge our time to go get it.... 

If it takes time to find a part in the truck the customer is paying for that also

One thing for sure the customer is not willing to pay you to clean the truck....

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Not really.....
> 
> We charge for everything.... Don't have it in the truck ... We charge our time to go get it....
> 
> ...


Exactly. How can I lose productivity if im charging the time?


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> Exactly. How can I lose productivity if im charging the time?


Are all your jobs T&M? None of them are bid? The faster the job is complete the quicker you're on to the next. And yes the customer pays for me to clean my van, if you keep it in order then it only takes few minutes to straighten it out. Much less time than it takes to find that part " I know I saw it in here somewhere"


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I like T&M the most on any size of job as long as the customer is willing to pay....

Always know you are in the black on these....

We bid jobs all the time and under those bids everything is included 

Small scale doesn't merit a bid or quote in my books as it takes the same amount of time to look at it as to fix it.... 

I would rather have any job T&M over quote or flat rate

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Not really.....
> 
> We charge for everything.... Don't have it in the truck ... We charge our time to go get it....
> 
> ...


The way I look at it is when I got there the truck was in order and that's how it will be when I leave. Just like the job site or residence I will clean up my mess before I leave its all on the clock or in the bid.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> I like T&M the most on any size of job as long as the customer is willing to pay....
> 
> Always know you are in the black on these....
> 
> ...


Agreed T&M takes the what if out of the job and most of the time the HO will make out better IMO. Because if I bid or flat rate you're damn sure I'll be CYA on any unforeseen problems.


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## huskyevert (Mar 9, 2012)

When I inherited my first company truck it was a total pig. The boss told me, "I'm gonna pay you to clean the truck this one time. If it ever looks like this again there's gonna be trouble."

Depending on the kind of call and how much mess there is, it's not always reasonable for the van to be neat as a pin, but I at least put stuff away, on the customer's time.

It's not worth getting fired over.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

If shelves are given to me and installed I would use them however they are not. I have to make do with what I have. When I say a mess it is not a trashy mess. It is more like the old style hardware stores with the wooden floors that have things stacked neatly but messy. All of my faucet items are together the entire toilet repairs are together, copper fittings are separating from galvanized and pvc. Toilet parts are not mixed with faucet repair materials. Pump material is in a different section.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Ok, so all you guys that get your customers to pay for you to drive to the supply house. What specific type of items are you running to the supply house for, that justifies charging the time to the customer?

I could see if they need a toilet, or a sink, or specialty pump or something. I'm not saying I never do have to run to supply house, but I will say it's rare.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Supply house for me is 25 mi. Most cust. would rather wait for supply truck that comes to us every other day than spend an extra $200 for me to make a trip. Unless it is something special, we will have it on our truck. Life in the sticks.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Ok, so all you guys that get your customers to pay for you to drive to the supply house. What specific type of items are you running to the supply house for, that justifies charging the time to the customer?
> 
> I could see if they need a toilet, or a sink, or specialty pump or something. I'm not saying I never do have to run to supply house, but I will say it's rare.


That's because you drive a service van of sufficient size for common stock _and_ tools/equipment. Many (if not most), do not. 



Most shops are very tight with material supplies for truck stock as well. At some point the shop owner has spent $2500 - $3500 on one of those plumbing business seminars where he was shown how to calculate the minute to minute cost of carrying stock on the trucks "that should be in the supply-houses instead" 

Most won't believe me when I say this, but at the last two shops I worked for I basically stocked my own truck originally, then used various tricks to replace the materials as I went forward. 

My experience is that most shop owners want their plumbers to have _everything_ they could ever need on the trucks at all times, but aren't willing to actually make that possible.

I've never been one to throw my hands up in the air and blame someone else when I don't have what I need to do the job...that's why I own_ all_ my own tools and see to stocking my truck myself.

I can't in good conscience recommend that to others...just saying that shop owners should compare their expectations with reality before jumping to condemnations of their plumbers and their trucks.

I looked at my truck really close yesterday and tried to straighten it up while waiting for glue to dry on a water main repair. After about fifteen minutes of "organizing" I confirmed that I really couldn't do much more with what I had to work with in my new van. 

It no doubt looks like a mess to a starched and pressed office jockey, but for me I know exactly where everything is at (even the stuff that piled four bags deep due to lack of space).


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> That's because you drive a service van of sufficient size for common stock _and_ tools/equipment. Many (if not most), do not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I always made sure i gave a fully stocked truck to a new guy. When i mean fully stocked, i mean what i had on my truck since i still did service when i had 4 trucks on the road. After that it was up to the guys to either give me a list of their parts they needed or ask for a PO# to get stock. I even supplied major tools like hammer drills, saws, and stuff. Did i have guys call and say they didnt have a angle stop or supply lines...You bet!! and guess what..They had the dirtest trucks and stuff pilled on the floor. Some learned that a clean stocked truck made them money and some didnt.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Got a question for the guys that say the condidtion of the truck dont matter. If you were the owner and gave one of your guys a brand new fully stocked Ford E-250 extended van. Then in 3 months you looked at it and it was trashed and the side had a dent along the 1/4 panel.....what would you do?? I know what i did..but put yourself in my shoes. What would you really do??


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

You know I think the age of each of us, has alot to do with how we operate too. Like Affordable says he aint got time to straighten out his truck, when he is finishing a replumb, & then has a few sewer calls to go on. Sorry, but if I finish a replumb, (assuming this means water pipe replacement, or maybe a drain replacement, or similar), then go on 3 sewer calls in one day, I would be dead.:yes: I may do 1 sewer call after that, but not 3, ( which I figure a few means atleast 3).

I am a bit over 50. I aint greedy. I consider my trade a career, not a race to the next job everyday. When I got everything I need for the job, including all the unexpected, & I get the job at hand done 100%, because I kept my truck organized, & stocked, with mostly materials, that I took an educated guess at, that I will need some day. Then that is what gives me a feeling of success. Keeping my truck stocked, & neat & clean is part of the pride I take, in everything, that is related to plumbing, which includes, the truck & tools I use everyday. If I aint got something I should have, that pi$$es me off to no end. Cuz I'm a one man show, I can buy anything I want, except time.

I aint gonna try & get 1 or 2 more jobs in, & kill myself everyday. Cuz I don't have to anymore. I did all that BS, 90 hr weeks, & what not. Now I work smart, not fast. I wouldn't say I work slow, I would say I work steady.

Now the reason I bring this up, is everyone's situation is different. Like RW. I would love to come over & clean & organize his van, & have him work out of it for a week that way.:laughing: But I don't knock or care if he wants to work different than me. Heck he may have more mouths to feed, may be alot younger than me, or whatever the reasoning is, just wants to make more, or needs more money. His van works for him, mine works for me. He probably would not like working out of my truck either, & I certainly could not work out his. Organizing my truck, is like a hobby to me. Yea, I am sick.

And if I carry around more stock than I need, so be it. It's all paid for, ready for when I need it. I had a sewer call today, & was asked to fix a toilet, "WHILE YOUR HERE". Besides all the toilet parts I needed,guess what, angle valve would not shut off, guess what, it was polished brass trim, guess what else,........... yep, had it in my truck. Carry polished brass, strt & angle, W/ sleeve & escutcheons. Also carry Satin Nickel, & that awful oil rubbed bronze. Also have fancy style chrome angle valves, with cross handles. Alot of people like those, & are willing to buy, cuz I have them on hand. I carry these over priced valve kits too, cuz the customers or GC's that order the plumbing fixtures for their bathrooms, always forget, to order the matching valve trims. Same thing for kitchen sink & disposal strainers.

So yea, in a nut shell, having an overweight, overstocked, overtooled ,gas hog type truck, is my dream come true.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

victoryplbaz said:


> Got a question for the guys that say the condidtion of the truck dont matter. If you were the owner and gave one of your guys a brand new fully stocked Ford E-250 extended van. Then in 3 months you looked at it and it was trashed and the side had a dent along the 1/4 panel.....what would you do?? I know what i did..but put yourself in my shoes. What would you really do??


Here's the other side of that coin: I'm driving my bosses van, going through an intersection & get hit in the side by a driver making an illegal right turn on red. I make no insurance claim ( worker's comp. or otherwise ) even though I was hit pretty hard while on company time. Boss processes vehicle claim against other driver for damages to fix the van I drive & receives payment. While I continue to drive to jobs in a now jacked-up vehicle, making me look like a careless S.O.B., and get my balls broke by neighbors of the company because I have to slam the side door to close it properly, our dispatcher gets a nice company vehicle to drive compliments of my incident. So, when you ask someone to respond what an owner would do put in your shoes, unfortunately I've seen it. Buy your dispatcher a nice vehicle.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

mccmech said:


> Here's the other side of that coin: I'm driving my bosses van, going through an intersection & get hit in the side by a driver making an illegal right turn on red. I make no insurance claim ( worker's comp. or otherwise ) even though I was hit pretty hard while on company time. Boss processes vehicle claim against other driver for damages to fix the van I drive & receives payment. While I continue to drive to jobs in a now jacked-up vehicle, making me look like a careless S.O.B., and get my balls broke by neighbors of the company because I have to slam the side door to close it properly, our dispatcher gets a nice company vehicle to drive compliments of my incident. So, when you ask someone to respond what an owner would do put in your shoes, unfortunately I've seen it. Buy your dispatcher a nice vehicle.


 
I know how you feel..I had a boss do that too and it pissed me off to no end. Then had the balls to say i trashed his truck..He should had fixed your truck. Guess he dont care what his trucks look like. I would never do something like that to one of my plumbers. Mine is in the shop now because i had a accident as well being fixed.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

I can't stand working out of a messy van. I take pride in maitaining a neat and clean image and I can work circles around any of the speed demon's I know. When I buy a new van it goes to the guy who best takes care of his. And if you open the door of your van at a customers home and an avalanche of plumbing parts, including the leaking can of purple primer, ensues... Your Fired!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

mccmech said:


> Here's the other side of that coin: I'm driving my bosses van, going through an intersection & get hit in the side by a driver making an illegal right turn on red. I make no insurance claim ( worker's comp. or otherwise ) even though I was hit pretty hard while on company time. Boss processes vehicle claim against other driver for damages to fix the van I drive & receives payment. While I continue to drive to jobs in a now jacked-up vehicle, making me look like a careless S.O.B., and get my balls broke by neighbors of the company because I have to slam the side door to close it properly, our dispatcher gets a nice company vehicle to drive compliments of my incident. So, when you ask someone to respond what an owner would do put in your shoes, unfortunately I've seen it. Buy your dispatcher a nice vehicle.


If your boss has a dispatcher, he's gotta have more than 1 truck, right? What do the other trucks look like? Sounds like the boss don't respect you. May be time to find a new boss, or become one yourself:yes:. JMO


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

TPWinc said:


> I can't stand working out of a messy van. I take pride in maitaining a neat and clean image and I can work circles around any of the speed demon's I know. When I buy a new van it goes to the guy who best takes care of his. And if you open the door of your van at a customers home and an avalanche of plumbing parts, including the leaking can of purple primer, ensues... Your Fired!


Was waiting for someone to say this!!!!! Who can argue that?


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## [email protected] (Apr 17, 2012)

mccmech said:


> Here's the other side of that coin: I'm driving my bosses van, going through an intersection & get hit in the side by a driver making an illegal right turn on red. I make no insurance claim ( worker's comp. or otherwise ) even though I was hit pretty hard while on company time. Boss processes vehicle claim against other driver for damages to fix the van I drive & receives payment. While I continue to drive to jobs in a now jacked-up vehicle, making me look like a careless S.O.B., and get my balls broke by neighbors of the company because I have to slam the side door to close it properly, our dispatcher gets a nice company vehicle to drive compliments of my incident. So, when you ask someone to respond what an owner would do put in your shoes, unfortunately I've seen it. Buy your dispatcher a nice vehicle.


Ya I had a drunk driver come down my road at 2am on a sat morn she went into my driveway and smashed into my company rig I ended op calling the cops but by the time they got here she moved her vehicle into her driveway (she lived two places down) and the cop was pisses he had to do paperwork he didn't give her a test or a ticket I was irate all that ended up happening was an insurance swap and done. I was supposed to meet with my boss at six in the morn but that didn't happpen because of the accident. Atleast I got a rental van under her insurance that same day.


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

if you want to move up the ranks fast. keep the truck straight and clean. learn the invintory. keep it well stock. order early on parts and comsumables. knowthe price of invintory. (when down to one. write in down and reorder) if very busy the trucks are dirty inside. when slow they should be clean and straight. but clean or drity you goto know whats in it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> You know I think the age of each of us, has alot to do with how we operate too. Like Affordable says he aint got time to straighten out his truck, when he is finishing a replumb, & then has a few sewer calls to go on. Sorry, but if I finish a replumb, (assuming this means water pipe replacement, or maybe a drain replacement, or similar), then go on 3 sewer calls in one day, I would be dead.:yes: I may do 1 sewer call after that, but not 3, ( which I figure a few means atleast 3).
> 
> I am a bit over 50. I aint greedy. I consider my trade a career, not a race to the next job everyday. When I got everything I need for the job, including all the unexpected, & I get the job at hand done 100%, because I kept my truck organized, & stocked, with mostly materials, that I took an educated guess at, that I will need some day. Then that is what gives me a feeling of success. Keeping my truck stocked, & neat & clean is part of the pride I take, in everything, that is related to plumbing, which includes, the truck & tools I use everyday. If I aint got something I should have, that pi$$es me off to no end. Cuz I'm a one man show, I can buy anything I want, except time.
> 
> ...


I like to keep it lean. I drive a F150 pickup. I don't have room for tons of material so what I do have winds up piling up in the truck. You're right, I am a lot younger than you (27) and I take all the work I can get. I have a 2 year old son, and a wife to think about. You've done your time and I can respect that. 

I focus all my energy on moving forward rather than stocking a truck. I can understand towards the end of your career working at a steady, rather than breakneck, pace. One of my biggest downfalls is not charging adiquately for material I had on hand. I usually make a parts run for almost anything as, having the bill in hand makes it easier for me to remember to charge. I understand it isn't the best way to handle it but it works for me.

When I have it on the truck I tend to forget what the item cost me to purchase and make up a number, usually lower than the actual cost. I'm looking at ways to remedy the situation currently like new invoicing software with the prices entered in. If I make that happen I will keep more stock and having a neater vehicle is a must. 

I work in a major city and am never too far from a supply house. Getting parts is a 20 min ordeal and easily chargable. Most of you that carry a stock also build that into your price structure, so your cost winds up being the same as me running to get parts. 

As far as bid jobs go, I make a material list in the beginning of the job. I then make one run to the supply house and get everything for the job or that day's work. I can usually cut down the supply house trips by running once in the beginning of the day for all the jobs I go to that day.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Besides the vast majority of my jobs are an hour or less. I'm charging a minimum hour regardless. It usually looks better spending the time going for materials than walking to the truck and slamming it in, in 15 min and charging for an hour. 

The money I save driving a more fuel efficient truck, offsets the fuel burned running to a supply house. My pickup gets 20 something MPG and my old van got 8-12. You can run to the supply house once a day to make up for that fuel you burn. I also live about an hour outside of the majority of my work, so having that truck is much more cost effective than a van even with the lack of stock.


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