# Home Depot / Lowes



## thebigredwrench (May 1, 2014)

Over the past few years I have been disturbed by the fact that Home Depot & Lowes can sell to non-licensed plumbers the tools and materials needed to replumb a residential dwelling. It used to be that the only place you could aquire those materials was from a plumbing warehouse such as ferguson (California). This past weekend I was in Home Depot to buy light switches for the home and started talking to a worker whose brother was a plumber. She said that Home Depot now sold gas pipe similar to trac pipe as well as the fittings needed. I proceeded to tell here about the certifications plumbers needed (in the field) just to install it. 
I guess my ? then would be, can the state licensing board do anything. My brother is the contractor but I've always been there for him and it really chaps my hide. Marketing is expensive and these guys have no such expenses as I have here. Probably no insurance etc.....you get my drift:furious:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

That's been my gripe for years. Here in Ma they are not selling the CSST yet that I've seen, but it's like the Wild West with everything else. Now that I'm out of business and am a full time inspector I don't let it bother as much. If they want to flood or blow up there house, go for it. I look at it this way, at some point I'll be in their house and I worry about it then

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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

I've seen CSST at the Lowes stores here in Calgary, and it annoys me to no end. They're also selling hydronic distribution manifolds and circulator pumps, as though anyone should be working on that without a ticket.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

CaberTosser said:


> *I've seen CSST at the Lowes stores here in Calgary, and it annoys me to no end. *They're also selling hydronic distribution manifolds and circulator pumps, as though anyone should be working on that without a ticket.


CSST is another material that helped dumb down the trade and not to mention, I'll bet Lowes can sell it cheaper than the wholesaler. I've seen a dramatic change in that dept., it's amazing how the retailer has now become the wholesaler.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Titletownplumbr said:


> CSST is another material that helped dumb down the trade and not to mention, I'll bet Lowes can sell it cheaper than the wholesaler. I've seen a dramatic change in that dept., it's amazing how the retailer has now become the wholesaler.


Let's see how many houses blow up from lightning strikes from lack of bonding

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## thebigredwrench (May 1, 2014)

I don't understand the state licensing boards not picking that up. In calif. they ( non-license) can't bill more than $500 total T & M


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

thebigredwrench said:


> I don't understand the state licensing boards not picking that up. In calif. they ( non-license) can't bill more than $500 total T & M


The problem is that the Boards don't look at it as illegal to sell, but when you install it, and that goes for anything plumbing/gas related. It needs to addressed but the problem is huge corporations with lobbyists that would fight it tooth and nail. As an inspector I've learned at some point 1 of us will end up in their house/business at some point, and hope that nothing happens in the mean time. You can't fix stupid I guess. Now that being said licensed professionals entering properties should be diligent and report major violation to the AHJ or Gas co.

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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Here in KC people are allowed to do their own plumbing as long as they own and occupy the house. 

It's hard to tell people they can't work on their own home, especially if they are poor. The problem is that at some point they will sell their house to somebody who is stuck with the problems caused by their shoddy work.

I often daydream about stalking HD handymen buying water heaters back to their job site to call it in to the city.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Death of the trade 

How's things in Overland Park? All quieted down?


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## jnaas2 (Dec 6, 2012)

I love the homeowner who tells Me lowes sells it so it must be LEGAL:laughing:


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## panther (Oct 27, 2010)

Wait a minute. You can't buy an HVAC system unless you are licensed. I've been in small appliance parts store and they refuse to sell many parts to the public. It's funny to see customers that can't buy a simple part without a license get pissed off and throw a fit. As far as I'm concerned, water heaters shouldn't be sold to the public either. Period. Along with gas flex, pex and tools. Now I see they have tempering valves too.


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

Plumbing is not so bad, water damage happens and it's forgiving. There was an explosion a few years back when a HO worked on his own water heater. Things to come. There was a baby in a crib next door and was protected by the crib turning sideways against a wall. Http://bc.ctvnews.ca/home-flattened-one-dead-in-tumbler-ridge-blast-1.403998


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

thebigredwrench said:


> *Over the past few years I have been disturbed by the fact that Home Depot & Lowes can sell to non-licensed plumbers the tools and materials needed to replumb a residential dwelling.*
> 
> * This past weekend I was in Home Depot to buy light switches for the home and started talking to a worker whose brother was a plumber.*


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

So you are a Licensed Electrician as well as a Licensed Plumber complaining about the big box stores selling plumbing parts, tools, etc to homeowners?

Or, were you maybe handihacking a little electrical work in your own home?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

You can buy PVB backflows all day long at the box stores here but they are outlawed from use anywhere here. That is a big problem, somebody spends a ton of money just to find out you have to remove it. I love seeing the look on there faces when that happens. The box stores shove so many products down the un educated publics throat with the faults hood that they can do it. Not telling if it is legal or not. By the time code enforcement catches up they have sold a ton of the crap they were pushing. I agree code enforcement needs to take a proactive stance. If it's illegal to install it should be just as illegal to sell.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

The way I see it, folks go to the HD thinking they can do it, then realize why I have a license. HD and Lowes make me serious cash, and I encourage that behavior.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

PlumberDave said:


> The way I see it, folks go to the HD thinking they can do it, then realize why I have a license. HD and Lowes make me serious cash, and I encourage that behavior.




Now that^^ is seeing the glass half full! I like it. If youre biggest issue is the cheapo and lowes selling plumbing tools and products than you need to work on your marketing skills and ability to convince people to use you. There are numerous ways to sell a person on you vs the cheapo for a water heater install. Quit blaming them for the trade's demise. Lets educate the public more when working for them, our apprentices more, and not take our trade for granted. In other words, WE control the image and perception of the public. The big box stores aren't going away. So what? Many years ago most men fixed all of their homes appliances and did the various needed repairs. They don't as much today but will hire the cheap handy man or landscaper to do their plumbing because they don't realize the importance of having a professional perform the work. That comes from many things such as how we're portrayed in the media, how we perform our work and how we compose ourselves. 

Our society puts too much emphasis on being a doctor or lawyer or engineer or scientist. Why not emphasize being a plumber? Lets work on that as opposed to b****ing about the cheapo and lowes selling various products being all of us at one time have shopped there. They aren't going anywhere and no licensing board has the funds to fight them nor should they. 

And lets work on charging a good fair-to-us price and change the perception of what a fair price is to the customer. People dont question lawyer rates or doctor rates because they are needed. We must make oursleves needed by doing quality work, educating ourselves on new products and methods, maintaining a license and insurance, turning in hacks, etc. It is a never ending battle to maintain the strength of our industry but there are more worthwhile and effective ways of going about it.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Now that^^ is seeing the glass half full! I like it. <SNIP>
> 
> Yes! We as a trade must educate the customer. I posted this along time ago.
> But I still use it on occasion ... Sometimes the customers rethink their purchase.
> ...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

There is a story going around about RHEEM water heaters being sold over the counter in California..at home depot..

Home depot is not competeing with plumbers for huge government apartment jobs where like 1000 ...50 gallon power vent water heaters are being changed out and publically bid...


home depot under bid the plumbers in the area for the job because hd can get a 50 gallon rheem power vent for about 650 and the price the plumber can get it from the local supply house is about 925....

apparently HD only has to hire a master plumber and go into the plumbing business .... They can now underbid everyone cause of this extreme advantage Rheem has given them over the plumbing contractor...


now aint that sweet...


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

I too had tho


thebigredwrench said:


> Over the past few years I have been disturbed by the fact that Home Depot & Lowes can sell to non-licensed plumbers the tools and materials needed to replumb a residential dwelling. It used to be that the only place you could aquire those materials was from a plumbing warehouse such as ferguson (California). This past weekend I was in Home Depot to buy light switches for the home and started talking to a worker whose brother was a plumber. She said that Home Depot now sold gas pipe similar to trac pipe as well as the fittings needed. I proceeded to tell here about the certifications plumbers needed (in the field) just to install it. <snip>





thebigredwrench said:


> *I too had thoughts along those lines back in 2010*
> *http://diydangers.blogspot.com/
> Right Click this link and open it in a new window
> *


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> There is a story going around about RHEEM water heaters being sold over the counter in California..at home depot.. Home depot is not competeing with plumbers for huge government apartment jobs where like 1000 ...50 gallon power vent water heaters are being changed out and publically bid... home depot under bid the plumbers in the area for the job because hd can get a 50 gallon rheem power vent for about 650 and the price the plumber can get it from the local supply house is about 925.... apparently HD only has to hire a master plumber and go into the plumbing business .... They can now underbid everyone cause of this extreme advantage Rheem has given them over the plumbing contractor... now aint that sweet...


This is exactly what I am scared of. To be honest I'm not hurting, business is better than ever but I can see a tragedy when it's coming.

So how do you feel about Rheem now? If we don't boycott, soon all water heaters will be sold there.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> There is a story going around about RHEEM water heaters being sold over the counter in California..at home depot..
> 
> Home depot is not competeing with plumbers for huge government apartment jobs where like 1000 ...50 gallon power vent water heaters are being changed out and publically bid...
> 
> ...


YUP! I went over and checked it out on Monday and sure enough nothin but RHEEM! they had basically two models of every type (one with a plastic drain valve and one with a brass bib). However the change did affect price as now I believe their cheapest 40 gal model is now $498.00 up from around $400.00 when they were selling GE's, i get my bradfords for $435.00 so that's kinda good news for me. However I know what your talking about mark in regards to undercutting plumbers on govt projects as the local police academy where my father in law runs the mounted division, had a new barracks building constructed (well still under construction) and delta mechanical is installing all the water heaters, ( delta mechanical is the company homedepot uses for their installs.)


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Master Mark said:


> There is a story going around about RHEEM water heaters being sold over the counter in California..at home depot..
> 
> Home depot is not competeing with plumbers for huge government apartment jobs where like 1000 ...50 gallon power vent water heaters are being changed out and publically bid...
> 
> ...


I don't get the complaint. Rheems have been sold at the depot for many years. They were just called GE. Now they are a different color and actually advertise the Rheem brand. So whats the difference? Hacks have installed water heaters for years and we've fought it for years. Nothing new other than they're called Rheem now instead of GE. At lowes they sell American or Whirlpool water heaters that are also sold to whoever wants to buy one. Sears sells Maytag or State/A.O.Smith. There are only 3 manufacturers out there making all of the tank style water heaters. State/A.O. Smith, Bradford-White, and Rheem.


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## Chandog (Nov 22, 2010)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Now that^^ is seeing the glass half full! I like it. If youre biggest issue is the cheapo and lowes selling plumbing tools and products than you need to work on your marketing skills and ability to convince people to use you. There are numerous ways to sell a person on you vs the cheapo for a water heater install. Quit blaming them for the trade's demise. Lets educate the public more when working for them, our apprentices more, and not take our trade for granted. In other words, WE control the image and perception of the public. The big box stores aren't going away. So what? Many years ago most men fixed all of their homes appliances and did the various needed repairs. They don't as much today but will hire the cheap handy man or landscaper to do their plumbing because they don't realize the importance of having a professional perform the work. That comes from many things such as how we're portrayed in the media, how we perform our work and how we compose ourselves. Our society puts too much emphasis on being a doctor or lawyer or engineer or scientist. Why not emphasize being a plumber? Lets work on that as opposed to b****ing about the cheapo and lowes selling various products being all of us at one time have shopped there. They aren't going anywhere and no licensing board has the funds to fight them nor should they. And lets work on charging a good fair-to-us price and change the perception of what a fair price is to the customer. People dont question lawyer rates or doctor rates because they are needed. We must make oursleves needed by doing quality work, educating ourselves on new products and methods, maintaining a license and insurance, turning in hacks, etc. It is a never ending battle to maintain the strength of our industry but there are more worthwhile and effective ways of going about it.


That is the best post I have seen on this forum yet. Thank you!


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

*That is hilarious Red*

A licensed plumber buying electrical items as an unlicensed electrician for his home complaining about unlicensed persons buying plumbing for their home.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ZL700 said:


> A licensed plumber buying electrical items as an unlicensed electrician for his home complaining about unlicensed persons buying plumbing for their home.


Yes... I found amusement in that...:laughing:


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