# WELL...I pulled the trigger!



## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Picked up a JNW Big Brute at the Flow Expo! Ill post more when shes all at home and setup.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Just for the record.....I had nothing to do with this lol


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> Just for the record.....I had nothing to do with this lol


Gee!Hmm! I...don't know what yur talkin'bout:whistling2: actually you had everything to do with this, so if It doesn't work out...it's on YOU


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## Blackhawk (Jul 23, 2014)

I just got a Brute 150 Trailer Jetter, pretty much the same capability as yours.

Being that I am so use to running higher output US JEtters and Harbens I was very nervous that I under bought....

The first time I used my Brute Trailer I knew I made an outstanding purchase. So very happy with the performance of the unit. Unless you plan on cleaning 24" storm drains or really large commercial buildings then rest assured you have the best machine for the money.

I love my brute so much that when we are slow I offer close family members a free jet just to break the unit in more and become more familiar with it.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

lol I know I know. But I got so much faith that you'll succeed that this was easy....I just gave you all the information and you knew this was the right choice. Plus that deal was screaming. 

Putting this here so neither of us forget....

BTW did the pressure loss calculation.....300' of 3/8 hose at 8.5 gpm is 970 psi. 

Now if you got 200' of 3/8 on a hose cart....loss of 650 psi. Then get 200' of 1/2 hose on the reel to use as a jumper hose....loss of 150 psi. Have another 100' of 1/2 as needed so you only have 75 psi loss per section. All this would keep your nozzle pressure above 3000 psi.....amazing for cutting. 

BTW, the pressure loss for 5/16 hose is 870 psi per 100. 

Your specs are so good, I'd go warthog first, then do the root ranger to hit the trouble spots. Also I'd order a warthog rebuild kit. Comes with the fluid and talking to Shane from AJ, he said plumbers who add some fluid every couple uses have their warthogs last the longest.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Oooohhhhh, aaaaahhh!!!! That's niiiice!!!!


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Blackhawk said:


> I just got a Brute 150 Trailer Jetter, pretty much the same capability as yours.
> 
> Being that I am so use to running higher output US JEtters and Harbens I was very nervous that I under bought....
> 
> ...


How about you run that trailer out by me one day and give me a jetting tutorial on my sewer.


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

Congrats!! Met Steve and john yesterday, real nice guys, can't wait for mine to show up


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Oh and congrats Shootn' seems like you're doing well!


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Flyout95 said:


> Oh and congrats Shootn' seems like you're doing well!


Thanks Bro! I'm tryin.


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

You won't regret it brother you made a good investment. Your clients and you will be happy. Time to go after some maintenance agreements.


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> Just for the record.....I had nothing to do with this lol


I call bs. LOL


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## Johnny Canuck (Feb 24, 2015)

Wish they had shows like that up here. Closest we got is the local home show where I got a free EMCO mug - woohoo (sarcasm)


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Congrats man! Badass!


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Congrats!!! Looks like a great choice.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

So after about an hour and half of total run time, this is hat my hose looks like near the beginning but is also pitted out at other locations. Anyone else with a JNW unit experience this? It's literally worn the jacket


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

And this at the 200' mark


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

And then this is the protective sleeve they put over the hose at the beginning. Keep in mind I've only pulled out 30' or so, so it's not rubbing against a fitting at anything


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

What the hell did you do in 1-1/2 hours to make the hose look like that?!









KIDDING!!!


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

The same thing happened to mine. I ended up putting a thick rubber hose (like what's used for air gaps) at the beginning of the reel. All the vibration is chewing it up at that spot.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> What the hell did you do in 1-1/2 hours to make the hose look like that?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing!...that's what scares me. This hose will burst in no time


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

I have seen hose like that it was on a vactor rig. and it was before we new what the tiger tail was for. we couldnt get a new hose so we would duct tape it in the spots we cut the coating off of.

that looks bad, so you did not pull that back across sharp clay or cast?


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

saysflushable said:


> I have seen hose like that it was on a vactor rig. and it was before we new what the tiger tail was for. we couldnt get a new hose so we would duct tape it in the spots we cut the coating off of.
> 
> that looks bad, so you did not pull that back across sharp clay or cast?


Nope! I haven't even used it on a single job yet Ive only done an experiment at the shop in 20' of abs pipe where I simply flushed a bunch of horse manure down a 4" clear "NEW" PVC line. So far I've been having trouble reaching flow and pressure as stated by the product. So all I've done is test run the machine with different warthogs, and every time the machine is running I notice shards of the coating flaking off. This is at the very few coils on the reel as in 270' back from the nozzle end and I've only had no more than 30' of payout so far. 

This is on a brand new never before seen a sewer hose only test running for an hour and a half "turnkey" jetter.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> The same thing happened to mine. I ended up putting a thick rubber hose (like what's used for air gaps) at the beginning of the reel. All the vibration is chewing it up at that spot.


So you did what? I'm assuming you sleeved the hose with basically the blue pipe sleeving material right? Your not using the hose it came with are you? I thought you were running red 5000 psi hose.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I've been watching this thread. I like the looks and specs of this machine as a future investment goes... My first thought is the quality of the hose... But I obviously could be wrong. It looks and sounds like a quality jetter, I have no idea what they run price wise, but I wouldn't think they would sell it with a junk hose.

I'm definitely interested in seeing what you figure out Shoot'N.


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

Super lame that you've had all these things go wrong with a supposed turn key unit, how's it that with a hour and a half on your unit that you've figured out the 300' is junk, the hose that connects to the 300' reel is junk and it's not hitting the numbers that is advertised, how you supposed to go in the field confident that your going to F $hi+ up everytime when it's got a hour on it and you have to replace the hoses already? Do they offer a upgraded hose? Oh man...... Got me wondering now........ I know it's new and might have some bugs but come on now


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Hillside said:


> Super lame that you've had all these things go wrong with a supposed turn key unit, how's it that with a hour and a half on your unit that you've figured out the 300' is junk, the hose that connects to the 300' reel is junk and it's not hitting the numbers that is advertised, how you supposed to go in the field confident that your going to F $hi+ up everytime when it's got a hour on it and you have to replace the hoses already? Do they offer a upgraded hose? Oh man...... Got me wondering now........ I know it's new and might have some bugs but come on now


Well the primary problem was first I was given the wrong warthog. Then when the right one was sent out I was only getting 7.4 at 3500 psi. Then after some playing around with different orofices I got my pressure up to 4000 psi but only around 7.5 gallons. 

Then I oredered a tiny tach so I could A) check what my engine RPM was under load/no load and B) so I can track hours and maintenance alerts. Then after getting my RPM readout, I contacted JNW and discovered my RPM's we quite under. So after increasing my RPM's I was able to pick up my additional flow. But everytime I would turn on the machine I would notice the shavings. Plus when u compare the hose to my current pirhanna hose, I can see the difference


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

Uh oh.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I think the problem is that damn hat ur a wearin'. :jester:

Seriously, that looks bad. I wonder if your pulse is partially on causing a crazy amount of vibration. I have a couple of years with my JNW and the reel/hose is the same setup as yours. Everything at the reel still looks new. 

Have you contacted JNW and sent them pictures? Something is not running right for sure. Check that pulse valve.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> I think the problem is that damn hat ur a wearin'. :jester:
> 
> Seriously, that looks bad. I wonder if your pulse is partially on causing a crazy amount of vibration. I have a couple of years with my JNW and the reel/hose is the same setup as yours. Everything at the reel still looks new.
> 
> Have you contacted JNW and sent them pictures? Something is not running right for sure. Check that pulse valve.


That pulse is what I was wondering a well. But if its slightly on then its busted as the handle is fully closed and then hopefully my pump isnt messed up. I spoke with Steve at JNW yesterday about the shavings and he said to unravel the whole run of hose and check if it has the protective sleeving, which it did as I discovered today, so I will call them on Monday morning. I will note that my pump at times makes an unusual vibration sound.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> So you did what? I'm assuming you sleeved the hose with basically the blue pipe sleeving material right? Your not using the hose it came with are you? I thought you were running red 5000 psi hose.


It happened to mine twice before I got the hint that something may be wrong with the way it's setup. I run red hose from a different manufacture on the jetter but I still keep the thick rubber hose on there. I use a sleeve equivalent to a radiator hose or dishwasher to air gap hose. I still have the green hose from JNW on my remote cart and it's had no problems.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> It happened to mine twice before I got the hint that something may be wrong with the way it's setup. I run red hose from a different manufacture on the jetter but I still keep the thick rubber hose on there. I use a sleeve equivalent to a radiator hose or dishwasher to air gap hose. I still have the green hose from JNW on my remote cart and it's had no problems.


How far do you run the rubber house?


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

5 feet. Just enough to cover that big ass gap and sharp edge on the reel.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

So if it is the pulsation valve being partially open, then when you use it as designed for, you risk screwing up your hose as well? Idk but I don't think it's the pulsation valve.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> ...I will note that my pump at times makes an unusual vibration sound.


Now I really think the pulse valve could be the issue. Be sure to share that pump vibration info with Steve. Also, I think John is deeper on the tech side so maybe talking to him will help.

Ultimately, I think something is not operating as intended. Like I said, mine has a lot of hours on it and haven't noticed the issues in your pic.

Whatever is going on needs to be corrected BEFORE putting new hoses on the unit. Even if that means shipping the whole thing back to JNW. (that would be a major bummer)

Not saying that beefing up the first parts of the reel isn't a good idea or that there are not better hoses out there. Just be sure to fix the cause, not just the symptom.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Anyone else on here with the big brute experience this?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I wonder if the cart/skid versions shake A LOT more. Mine is on a trailer.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> I wonder if the cart/skid versions shake A LOT more. Mine is on a trailer.


I was talking to Ben about this and the difference between the carts and trailers as well as Bens set up is the vibration is transferred directory to the hose reel on the carts. So that may be the case after all Sierra2000 had he same thing happen as well


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> I was talking to Ben about this and the difference between the carts and trailers as well as Bens set up is the vibration is transferred directory to the hose reel on the carts. So that may be the case after all Sierra2000 had he same thing happen as well


If that is the case, I wonder if shock mounting the reel would help.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

I just sent a text message to Unclog1776 and asked if he experienced any of this on his units! He has yet to chime in in this.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Or better shock mounting for the engine and pump. Anything really to isolate the vibrations so they don't accumulate on the loosest piece....the hose.

*edit*
That is IF a malfunction with the pump or pulse valve is not causing it.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

plbgbiz said:


> Or better shock mounting for the engine and pump. Anything really to isolate the vibrations so they don't accumulate on the loosest piece....the hose.
> 
> *edit*
> That is IF a malfunction with the pump or pulse valve is not causing it.


That makes sense to me. It's been over a decade since I've used a hose reel, and have mastered coiling of jetter hoses, garden hoses and extension cords.... When using pulse at full and your coil is sitting there vibrating away on concrete and the wear that comes of it always scares me.

I'm leaning more toward bad pump head now vs. bad hose vs. bad/improper motor mounts now myself. If it were a design flaw, I'm sure if the company is any good (which I think they are, would have figured any obvious design complications out in R&D.. be it the mounts/hose pump... As we all know, nothing can be expected to be 100% right out of the box.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Ok so I spoke with John at JNW today and I did a few obvious check ups that may have been the culprit. I disconnected the pulse valve completely, cleaned the inlet strainer (it did have quite a bit of buffer tank shards from the bulkhead installations I assume), I checked to see if the inlet filter was cracked and one was not visible, the one thing I though may be the culprit is the pump feed line from the buffer tank has an elbow in the bulkhead...this elbow should be pointed at a 45* angle away from the tank inlet garden feed, well it was actually pointed down with the face of the elbow about 1/8"-3/16" of a gap from the bottom of the buffer tank. I though eureka, but after readjusting, no luck. All this was done with the advice from John and it was no problem getting him on the phone time and time again, he even gave me his cell phone for any updates. 

Ultimately I opted to take it to Patriot sewer equipment about 40 miles from the house. I dropped it off a bit ago and they'll look at it first thing and John has already spoken to them and is going to expedite ship anything they need and take care of the bill, as well as send me out another 300' of hose. This way turnaround should be quickly. So, I know It sucks but what can ya do, it's still a man made machine that has a lot of moving parts under high pressure. That mixed with it being played with all day at the flow expo by hundreds of people, perhaps someone cranked the crap out of the unloader who knows. But John assured me it will all get straightened out so there ya go, great customer service.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

If it makes you feel any better, even my 50 grand jetter had some kinks that needed to be worked out. It happens. The important thing is dealing with a company that stands by their product.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Drain Pro said:


> If it makes you feel any better, even my 50 grand jetter had some kinks that needed to be worked out. It happens. The important thing is dealing with a company that stands by their product.


Yup! Believe me John and I talked for a good time about the acual design and components used. Hi John:laughing: he made a valid point regarding his pretty much unlimited access to every pump on the market through the Seattle pump devision. He could've used pretty much any accessible product out there but pt together a product that produces and work together fine and whether belt drive or gear reduced drive either option will provide many years of service. But customer service is definitely top notch!


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I find this amazing. My homemade jetter had nothing to fix. Oh but I did learn that I know absolutely nothing anymore when it comes to jetters so don't me ask me anything lol.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> I find this amazing. My homemade jetter had nothing to fix. Oh but I did learn that I know absolutely nothing anymore when it comes to jetters so don't me ask me anything lol.


Don't worry buddy! We're gonna figure this jetting thing out together!


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> I find this amazing. My homemade jetter had nothing to fix. Oh but I did learn that I know absolutely nothing anymore when it comes to jetters so don't me ask me anything lol.


Plus don't forget that udor does not have 8.5 or 9 gpm pumps, nor was I able to just get a straight up answer of "how do I get this 10gpm @ 3500 psi pump to produce 8.5 @4k. So the primary options are [email protected] or 7gpm @ 4k. Plus the market is full of 5.5gpm pumps at pressures from 2k-6kpsi that can be run with a Honda gx690. So, had I gone the 5.5 gpm route I'd've built one myself as we'll, but I wanted good flow with 4k psi.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Is that hose that way back on the reel?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> Plus don't forget that udor does not have 8.5 or 9 gpm pumps, nor was I able to just get a straight up answer of "how do I get this 10gpm @ 3500 psi pump to produce 8.5 @4k. So the primary options are [email protected] or 7gpm @ 4k. Plus the market is full of 5.5gpm pumps at pressures from 2k-6kpsi that can be run with a Honda gx690. So, had I gone the 5.5 gpm route I'd've built one myself as we'll, but I wanted good flow with 4k psi.



There is a thread that goes deep into that topic. I spent a couple of hours in school with John on the phone to gain a clearer understanding of the whole (GPM + PSI) = MYSTERY thing.

I tried to post as clear of an explanation as I could. Maybe I can track it down. The focus was more on the HP ratings. End of the hose data is a whole 'nuther animal.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Now I feel like I need to pull out my hose and check it. Granted, mine has only gone out once or twice a month but every time I walk back into the trailer, the hose looks like I put it back after a drunken stupor.
On a side note, I have had many problems with my brute. Just found an oil leak other day.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Had to replace the gear box on my older unit last week. It's just barley over a year old.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Unclog1776 said:


> Had to replace the gear box on my older unit last week. It's just barley over a year old.


Darn it man. Wonder how long a 10k hours cog belt would last?


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

My employee did give our skid mount a diamond plate control mount. I thought it looked pretty good


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Unclog1776 said:


> My employee did give our skid mount a diamond plate control mount. I thought it looked pretty good


 I see you have the auto rewind reel so your setup might be different from ours and may not have this problem. I notice you don't have the green hose though that came with the unit.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> I see you have the auto rewind reel so your setup might be different from ours and may not have this problem. I notice you don't have the green hose though that came with the unit.


Had a commercial door close on original and bust it. I don't hold JNW responsible for that. I personally like piranha hose. If you go with the 5000 psi stuff the outer coating is a lot thicker. 

My first brute no auto rewind. I had the JNW hose blow on a job right next to the reel hook up. Switched to piranha and never had the slightest show if wear


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

So looks like I may have hopefully found the problem and not the symptom. Looks like one of the check valves I not holding tight against back pressure. After taking all the checks out and inspecting, I noticed the discoloration and instantly thought high heat= possible warping. When I blow against the check it does not hold tight. 

John is sending out a repair kit, so hopefully Monday or Tuesday ill get them installed.


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## PPRI (Aug 27, 2013)

Is that a udor pump?


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

PPRI said:


> Is that a udor pump?


Yes. Randy over there is interested in seeing what could've caused it as well.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

You know when I first saw this thread, I was expecting it to go something like this - 

"Mama...I just killed a man....put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger now he's dead...."


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