# tying in vented washing machine directly below toilet



## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

Im gonna be running 3 inch pvc for a washing machine drain... the main is cast in the crawlspace and suspended...except for the toilet flange which is new pvc..I cant remember if I can cut in 4 x 3 santee about 2 foot below the toilet and run thw 3 inch drain into this or not... the 3 inch will be vented to fresh air so will this pass inspection ir do I need to cut into the building drain...the toilets are back to back so they dump into a double wye before dumping into another wye on the horizontal...i feel like this wont fly lol. Just trying to get out of disturbing 20 foot of suspended 4 inch cast...

Go easy on me...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> Im gonna be running 3 inch pvc for a washing machine drain... the main is cast in the crawlspace and suspended...except for the toilet flange which is new pvc..I cant remember if I can cut in 4 x 3 santee about 2 foot below the toilet and run thw 3 inch drain into this or not... the 3 inch will be vented to fresh air so will this pass inspection ir do I need to cut into the building drain...the toilets are back to back so they dump into a double wye before dumping into another wye on the horizontal...i feel like this wont fly lol. Just trying to get out of disturbing 20 foot of suspended 4 inch cast...
> 
> Go easy on me...


&{%${%^&|@%\}^$&$_{^_&*{#!!!!!!!


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

Lol. Didnt figure so.thanks for the help I guess. .what code violation would this fall under?


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

This is how it would kinda look


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

This is what I had planned to do and how I normally do it... most sewers here arent hanging 2 feet off the ground.they are normally buried. Im just leary of any shifts once I snap it loose


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> Lol. Didnt figure so.thanks for the help I guess. .what code violation would this fall under?


Didn't mean anything by that...lol


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> This is what I had planned to do and how I normally do it... most sewers here arent hanging 2 feet off the ground.they are normally buried. Im just leary of any shifts once I snap it loose


Thought u were trained by Tx Mech how to draw iso drawing??


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

Oh . Well I just assume im gonna get raped over the coals and probably not alot of help but a ton of smart azz comments lol. Any helpful advice for me on this? Im assuming lots of galv strap to make surw the cast doesnt move and shift. I planned to just cut out all of the cast except the bathroom group and snap it about 2 foot from the outside wall and just fernco in 15 foot of new pvc. H/o doesnt want a full repipe...


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Thought u were trained by Tx Mech how to draw iso drawing??


Man im laying in the bed on my phone...lol. did the best I could without getting up. Lol. And I think it conveys very well my situation hahaha


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Here you have one trap per vent, you are tying in before the vent, no go IMO, i use UPC. One vote for tying in downstream, not to mention you have a major over minor with that setup. I would go with your other option.


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

love2surf927 said:


> Here you have one trap per vent, you are tying in before the vent, no go IMO, i use UPC. One vote for tying in downstream, not to mention you have a major over minor with that setup. I would go with your other option.


Im doing this job in the a.m... just laying here thinking it over and I thought maybe just maybe I could do that haha. I know downstream will pass. I did two this months and the inspectors didn't have an issue with it.


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

And the one trap per vent Thing... what about thw back to back toilets...or double lavs on a ccross. .. can you explain what you meant?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I don't foresee any problem with thaT but ratherd use a reducing 'y' than sant tee and since it will be vented ..


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> I don't foresee any problem with thaT but ratherd use a reducing 'y' than sant tee and since it will be vented ..


Forgot.. how long the TEL? Why have to be 3" which I see 2" will works??


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> I don't foresee any problem with thaT but ratherd use a reducing 'y' than sant tee and since it will be vented ..


Idk if your dickin with me or if this is a viable option...lol


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Forgot.. how long the TEL? Why have to be 3" which I see 2" will works??


Code here is 3 inch on horizontal for all washing machine drains...whats tel?


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

younger-plumber said:


> And the one trap per vent Thing... what about thw back to back toilets...or double lavs on a ccross. .. can you explain what you meant?


Okay okay, i guess that was an oversimplification. The exceptions would be where the vent takeoff is at the same height as in back to back fixtures I suppose as well as wet venting however your situation does not satisfy either of these.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

younger-plumber said:


> Code here is 3 inch on horizontal for all washing machine drains...whats tel?


Maybe e meant TDL total developed length. I get what he's saying because here you can use 2" for washing machine and it will have separate vent. Are you on UPC or IPC?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> Code here is 3 inch on horizontal for all washing machine drains...whats tel?


TEL.. total Equivalent Lenght.. 4x3 red. Y is better than sant tee..


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

Its 50 foot or so to the washing machine...inspectors here require 3 inch horizontal..2inch droppin into a 3 by 2 wye on its back is how I normally do them...always pass no problems


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

younger-plumber said:


> Its 50 foot or so to the washing machine...inspectors here require 3 inch horizontal..2inch droppin into a 3 by 2 wye on its back is how I normally do them...always pass no problems


Not trying to dog you here but just because the inspector passes it doesn't mean it's right. I'm just saying, not saying your way is wrong, our inspectors here are general building inspectors and a lot of them will pass violations all day. It's a plumbers responsibility to make sure it's up to code not the inspector. Again I'm not saying youre wrong.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Here you could use 2" and I don't see why you couldn't use the first ( less work) drawing. The toilet would be wet vented through the laundry....

But I live a long way from you.


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

love2surf927 said:


> Not trying to dog you here but just because the inspector passes it doesn't mean it's right. I'm just saying, not saying your way is wrong, our inspectors here are general building inspectors and a lot of them will pass violations all day. It's a plumbers responsibility to make sure it's up to code not the inspector. Again I'm not saying youre wrong.


I do what the inspector wants. If code says 3 inches thats what I do.lol.if it doesnt pass I dont get paid....


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

redbeardplumber said:


> Here you could use 2" and I don't see why you couldn't use the first ( less work) drawing. The toilet would be wet vented through the laundry....
> 
> But I live a long way from you.


I suppose that would work as a wet vent, then you would need to use santee instead of a wye, and I'm not sure but the distance might be too far I'd have to check the table. Personally if it were me I would prefer the second method.


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

Im guessing theres not a real clear answer on whether option one is illegal or not...im just curious because itll save me alot of headache lol. Everyone has an opinion but in the end only the inspectors matters lol


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

love2surf927 said:


> I suppose that would work as a wet vent, then you would need to use santee instead of a wye, and I'm not sure but the distance might be too far I'd have to check the table. Personally if it were me I would prefer the second method.


Both toilets are already vented.... the washer vent wouldnt really come Into play except to keep from siphoning the traps...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> I do what the inspector wants. If code says 3 inches thats what I do.lol.if it doesnt pass I dont get paid....


 Okay that WHAT the inspector say.. wondering what's the code book say?? IMO.. 3" pipe just for a washing machine can causes problem with the soap scum building up at top half of pipe that long... hence, the bs plumbing code here required 4" underground ,even just for a washing machine and laurndy tub.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

We could use a wye to tie in here... What's the difference? 
Ya if pic one isn't to code in your area, then your hooped dude. Lately if I am concerned about how I have to do something, I email the inspectors office and he gets back to me. Very helpful.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Okay that WHAT the inspector say.. wondering what's the code book say?? IMO.. 3" pipe just for a washing machine can causes problem with the soap scum building up at top half of pipe that long... hence, the bs plumbing code here required 4" underground ,even just for a washing machine and laurndy tub.


Really!!!?? Holy crap. Everything 4" underground??


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

The first method wouldn't be allowed here because you are tieing into a drain arm . The second method is good.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

younger-plumber said:


> Both toilets are already vented.... the washer vent wouldnt really come Into play except to keep from siphoning the traps...


Both toilets are NOT vented conventionally once you cut in that wye/santee for drainage. Okay just checked my book, here that would NOT fly as the horizontal wet vented section should tie into the most downstream fixture drain, from 908.2.1 in UPC. Doesn't sound like you're on UPC though, It doesn't fly using UPC.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Defiantly go with the second drawing. 

I wouldn't tie it into the water closet like that. Even if it isn't against code And it is a major over a minor


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Not to mention the first method could siphon the toilet bowl


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

redbeardplumber said:


> Really!!!?? Holy crap. Everything 4" underground??


Yeap... and cast iron..


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

justme said:


> The first method wouldn't be allowed here because you are tieing into a drain arm . The second method is good.


This sounds accurate to me..it just doesnt seem right.lol.and yes rj code here is 3 inch with 2 in stand pipe...


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Defiantly go with the second drawing.
> 
> I wouldn't tie it into the water closet like that. Even if it isn't against code And it is a major over a minor


Been waiting for you. Haha. Thats enough for me. ill be sure to post pics...now I feel invested lmao.thanks folks


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

younger-plumber said:


> This sounds accurate to me..it just doesnt seem right.lol.and yes rj code here is 3 inch with 2 in stand pipe...


At least it pvc and use the dam y red!


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

younger-plumber said:


> Been waiting for you. Haha. Thats enough for me. ill be sure to post pics...now I feel invested lmao.thanks folks


Oh ok I see how it is! Don't take my word for it! Lol

Edit: why didn't you just say you wanted tex to answer it!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Thought u were trained by Tx Mech how to draw iso drawing??


Hey now. I draw way better then that. I bet younger plumber can too if he'd sit up straight. Lol


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

I would have to check our code to be 100%...

I agree 2nd pic is better.

Ok how would it syphon WC trap.? It would pull from laundry vent.

It wouldn't be trap arm once you tied in a wet vent


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

redbeardplumber said:


> I would have to check our code to be 100%...
> 
> I agree 2nd pic is better.
> 
> Ok how would it syphon WC trap.? It would pull from laundry vent.



When the water started flowing into the drain arm of the WC and filled the arm up the only option for air is the s trap right above . The same way back to back toilets sometimes do the same thing. We aren't talking about a lav drain , we are talking about a washing machine that will dump 10 to 20 gallons very fast thus filling the toilet arm up and siphoning the bowl.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

redbeardplumber said:


> I would have to check our code to be 100%...
> 
> I agree 2nd pic is better.
> 
> ...


As for it not being a trap arm once you tie in a drain to it ( call it a wet vent if you want), that wouldn't fly here .


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

justme said:


> As for it not being a trap arm once you tie in a drain to it ( call it a wet vent if you want), that wouldn't fly here .


Food for thought.... It may not here either! Lol


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

love2surf927 said:


> Oh ok I see how it is! Don't take my word for it! Lol
> 
> Edit: why didn't you just say you wanted tex to answer it!


Simmer down now. I wanted to hear everyones take on my proposed foolishness/attempted shortcut. Haha.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

@justme
So under a different application... You could not vent a WC with a vented washing machine period???


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

younger-plumber said:


> Simmer down now. I wanted to hear everyones take on my proposed foolishness/attempted shortcut. Haha.


Just a joke man, I'm nice and simmered down, just messin with ya.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

redbeardplumber said:


> @justme
> So under a different application... You could not vent a WC with a vented washing machine period???


According to section 908.1 in my code book (UPC) the answer is no. Vertical should be limited to fixtures of 1 or 2 DFU. Horizontal should only serve fixtures within the bathroom group(s). Also on horizontal (section 908.2.1) says WC, bathtubs, showers, and floor drains.... No mention of clothes washer.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

redbeardplumber said:


> @justme
> So under a different application... You could not vent a WC with a vented washing machine period???


I can't honestly answer that, I know I would never allow or do it just for the simple fact you are creating a perfect storm for siphoning the toilet . But I'm sure somewhere it is allowed.:laughing: Now if you actually stacked vented the toilet with a 90 and santee and tied the washing machine in to the 3" vent stack it would work, I still wouldn't do it.


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## timrath (Sep 28, 2013)

It's beacuse clothes washer produce suds so you have to follow the suds pressure zones and also water produces a hydraulic jump after it goes from vertical to horizontal


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## timrath (Sep 28, 2013)

And you would be crown venting the w.c kinda depending on how for you tie into the vertical section of the w.c fixture drain


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Dawned on me about a job I did 15 years ago.. this 4 story condo.. all cast iron.. the three floors have double washing machines in each floor and drained in a 'Chicago DVW drain set up' (illegal now, thanks Gwad).. whenever the wash day, water closet in 1st floor condo will ethier empty or bubbled up with suds... after many other plumbers' attempts, I disconnected the launrdy room waste and rerouted into the bigger sewer pipe near the outside wall. ( just like younger plumber's 2nd drawing) and no problem since.. mind you, this was a 3" pvc pipe and fittings for 6 washing machines and 3 laundry tubs.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

In general, I never dump a fixture into the middle of a bathroom group. I'd go with the second drawing and make the wye at least 4' down stream of the stack elbow.

Secure both side of your cut with all-thread rod and riser clamps. That will greatly reduce the risk of movement during and after the cut.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Why mess with the water closets when you have good pipe to use downstream. Second drawing would pass. If you want to get brownie points with your inspector, use some quality pipe support instead of strap iron.

Edit: I just noticed I wrote what BIZ just wrote. I was on page 2 when I replied.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> Why mess with the water closets when you have good pipe to use downstream. Second drawing would pass. If you want to get brownie points with your inspector, use some quality pipe support instead of strap iron.
> 
> Edit: I just noticed I wrote what BIZ just wrote. I was on page 2 when I replied.


Twisted minds think alike. :laughing:


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Can't interrupt a bathroom group with a w/m here at all. Has to tie in downstream and there is a prescribed distance. Just can't remember what it is, and not gonna look it up. The rain has just stopped and I gotta get back to work!!


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> This is how it would kinda look



Tell me what type of vent do you have for the toilet after you tied into it with a washer directly underneath it?

answer None I know of.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

love2surf927 said:


> Not trying to dog you here but just because the inspector passes it doesn't mean it's right. I'm just saying, not saying your way is wrong, our inspectors here are general building inspectors and a lot of them will pass violations all day. It's a plumbers responsibility to make sure it's up to code not the inspector. Again I'm not saying youre wrong.



Under the IPC Chapter 4 Automatic Washers 406.3

* AUTOMATIC CLOTHES WASHERS*
*406.1 Approval*. Domestic automatic clothes washers shall conform to ASSE 1007.
*406.2 Water connection*. The water supply to an automatic clothes washer shall be protected against backflow by an air gap installed integrally within the machine conforming to ASSE 1007 or with the installation of a backflow preventer in accordance with Section 608.
*406.3 Waste connection*. The waste from an automatic clothes washer shall discharge through an air break into a standpipe in accordance with Section 802.4 or into a laundry sink. The trap and fixture drain for an automatic clothes washer standpipe shall be a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) in diameter. The automatic clothes washer fixture drain shall connect to a branch drain or drainage stack a minimum of 3 inches (76 mm) in diameter. Automatic clothes washers that discharge by gravity shall be permitted to drain to a waste receptor or an approved trench drain.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

redbeardplumber said:


> I would have to check our code to be 100%...
> 
> I agree 2nd pic is better.
> 
> ...


You can't wet vent with a washer. Only bathroom group fixtures.

*BATHROO*M *GROUP*. A group of fixtures consisting of a water closet, lavatory, bathtub or shower, including or excluding a bidet, an emergency floor drain or both. Such fixtures are located together on the same floor level.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Not going to give you advice on how to run the plumbing because in the end us plumbers aren't going to convince your inspector on what meets local code. But I would suggest you search on google for 30-60-90 printable graph paper for your isos. If you don't know Howard Massey then you need to look for all his books.


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> This sounds accurate to me..it just doesnt seem right.lol.and yes rj code here is 3 inch with 2 in stand pipe...


YP, here in NC (unless Beaufort county is isolated from the rest of the state) you dont have to have a 3" drain for the laundry drain unless or until it connects with the kitchen drain on a horizontal. So if this is a straight laundry only drain, 2" works fine by NC code.


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> This is how it would kinda look


by the way... which app/program were you using for drawing there?


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> Oh . Well I just assume im gonna get raped over the coals


wait... what?!:laughing: 

was that a typo?

cuz.. if not, your version of that expression brings a WHOLE NOTHER LEVEL of pain and humiliation to the term.

:saddam: :lol:


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

PathMaker said:


> wait... what?!:laughing:
> 
> was that a typo?
> 
> ...


Haha made me lol!


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