# Wall penetration for tankless vent



## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

How is everybody making their wall penetrations for tankless horizontal vent kits in masonry walls?

I don't like the way I've been doing it and feel like I need a better way. If you can believe it, it took me the best part of 4 hours today to get through an exterior wall comprised of 3 brick walls one after the other. I can't tell you why it took so long because I think it probably should have been a little more than an hour tops. I tried to get a core driller but had trouble finding one at first and then cheaped out when I did find one. This was a mistake. I don't have or want core drilling equipment.

This is how I have been doing it:

1. locate center of wall penetration and hammer drill through at that point. 

2. mark square 1" inside of flange on all sides and on both sides of wall.

3. score/cut, brick/block with 4" angle grinder or rescue saw.

4. break every thing out with rotary hammer drill.

KTS, if you catch this thread, didn't I read something on one of your posts a long time ago about you using a chain saw with some kind of special masonry chain or am I mistaken? Maybe it was someone else? I can't remember.

I have yet to have to get through a poured concrete or poured block wall but I am not looking forward to trying it with my method. 

What is everybody else doing?


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

if you cant find someone to core drill. rent one and do it yourself. seems daunting at first but if you have the small hammer drill. you can mount the anchors for the core drill and get it done on your own time.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

While I can respect a core drilled hole through masonry.....pick your battles bud.

4 hours for 3 layers of brick? Were you boozin in your truck or something?
With brick at 4 1/2" for vent (non combustable) a trip to Lowes is in your future. Go to where the hammers are and get a few of those blue chissles with the big yellow hand smasher gaurd on it. I can blow through brick like butter. Poured crete takes longer, but not as long to rent a corring set it up...boar it out...than pack it back up THAN the clean up...GOD the cleanup. I have an air hammer with about 4 or 5 bits on it and a ....damn I forget how big that compressor is, but it's big enough to run the air hammer. It goes through brik fast too...faster than by hand through crete too. I hate grinding, because I hate the mess...specially with brick. So there is that...or the universal Ford tool...BFH


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> KTS, if you catch this thread, didn't I read something on one of your posts a long time ago about you using a chain saw with some kind of special masonry chain or am I mistaken? Maybe it was someone else? I can't remember.


You mean this?









It wouldn't work well for that application, it's heavy.

What you need is this









Plus this









The core bits are available up to 6", I use a 5" bit for WH vents, they work on brick, block, or concrete and extensions are available.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

The problem is that the wall thimble has a 7" diameter with 10" square fire stop. Most of the core drilling gear I have seen goes up to 6" or else you have to step up to a bigger rig. I figure it will have to be an 8" hole which will give me a little play and still leave 1" of cover on all sides for the fire stop. 

I already have the rotary hammer but it sucks, I need a new one. The bits that can be used in a rotary hammer are far too shallow. I would need about an 18" depth typically (12" block or poured wall, gap, 4 1/2" of brick).

Tankless - I hear you. I of course have a 3 pound and the chisel you describe but I have X amount of go juice on any given day and there is no way I'm going to spend any significant part of it tearing down the Berlin wall 'cause the job is going to be complete before I leave for the day. What are you, 26 or something?

KTS - How heavy is heavy, what do you usually use that for, and what is special about it the chainsaw, the chain, or both?


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Oh yeah, the 4 hours was not 4 hours of beating on a brick wall. It started at my arrival and included all of my unloading and set up, evaluation and final decision on exact location, very careful measurements and rechecking of the measurements because the tolerances were so tight, I had to move a ton of stuff out of the way in the enclosed basement to get to the location I wanted, marking of the wall on both sides, and now I start with the drilling and sawing and breaking. It was a little under 4 hours. Still much too long but no, it did not take me 4 hours of hammering to bust through a brick wall even though it was 3 walls thick.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

We used to use those core bits on a Hilti before we bought a core drill. I never used them as the core drill was already there when I started working. Well one day I had to make a 3" hole in a poured wall and decided I was going to use the core bit. That was the first and last time I'm doing that. It might take an extra ten minutes to set up and break down the core drill. It's going to save you that much time, give you a straight hole with less effort, and just generally be easier. For brick the core bit might work just fine though.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> The problem is that the wall thimble has a 7" diameter with 10" square fire stop. Most of the core drilling gear I have seen goes up to 6" or else you have to step up to a bigger rig. I figure it will have to be an 8" hole which will give me a little play and still leave 1" of cover on all sides for the fire stop.
> 
> I already have the rotary hammer but it sucks, I need a new one. The bits that can be used in a rotary hammer are far too shallow. I would need about an 18" depth typically (12" block or poured wall, gap, 4 1/2" of brick).
> 
> ...


I have cored holes through twenty inches of concrete with my Hilti core bits, bottom out the bit, chuck a chisel in the hammer, break out the slug and put the bit back in, repeat as needed.

The ICS chainsaw has a bar that is twice that of a regular chainsaw, and a carbide chain, it weighs in at twenty five pounds or so, I use if mostly on slabs, if you don't do a lot of concrete removal work is not not worth the $2,000 investment, you'd be better served with a Partner saw.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Again, the largest core bits I have seen have been 6" and even on the core drill if you want anything above 6" you have to go to a bigger rig. I need an 8" hole. 

That saw is interesting. How wide is the blade? You could plunge cut with that I guess sort of like a light saber through a blast door (my son is 8).

I don't know what a partner saw is.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't know what a partner saw is either (I work alone) and I ain't 26.....caffeene pal...lots of it! Plus I got alot of pent up anger issues so that's why I need the hand gaurd on my chisels...things can get a little crazy sometimes!!


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)




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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

This aught to do the trick.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

This is the model Partner saw I own.










The ICS chainsaw blade is 5/16" wide, and it can be used for plunge cuts, but it makes a huge mess doing it, and if you you don't keep it dead straight or hit something you will snap a $300 dollar chain.

If you need to make a ten inch hole I would recomend a two inch cruciform bit and drill a series of holes around a pre-drawn pattern.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

One of our core drills is a hand held unit that can be used as a dry core vacu-rig or with regular wet bits. It walks through brick or rebar like butta. 

I just have an apprentice hold a piece of plywood against the wall with an appropriate sized hole in it for centering. Just long enough to cut a groove for the bit to ride in. 

Makes a perfect hole through 4 thicknesses of brick in prolly about 4 minutes.

If there is any chain or partner sawing to do I hire a coring company. Holes that big are gonna need a lentl or a piece of steel.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Tankless said:


>


Oh, ok, one of those I got, I've just never heard it called a partner saw. To me that piece of equipment is a rescue saw and it is the weapon of choice currently. The only problem is, once again to everybody, I need an 8" hole, not 6" not 4" and not 10". 8" is what I need and with a 14" blade it is very difficult to resist the tempatation to cut down to the full radius of the blade. If you cut down to the full radius of the blade then you will leave cut marks on the wall that the wall thimble will not cover. It's a little like swatting a gnat with a sledge hammer. This is also why I will sometimes just use my 4" angle grinder instead especially on an interior wall where my intent is to just score the wall to about a 1" depth rather than get the maximum depth of cut. This does give me another idea though. I could use a larger angle grinder. I know they come in 6". I don't know about 8". An 8" angle grinder would give me just a little shy of 4" depth of cut at the bisection of each side. It's a slight improvement which probably wouldn't warrant the purchasing of a larger grinder.

Looks like I will just keep doing what I have been doing for now anyway.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Marlin your dynoload gets honorable mention. You know I'm not usually much of a practical joker, I'm always afraid maybe I end up giving someone a heart attack or scare them so bad they jump in front of a bus accidentally or something like that, but I bet it would be pretty funny to see the look on that ho's face, you know, the one who stands over your shoulder and makes you explain every step as you do it, if you pulled out 5 or 6 road flares wrapped together with a string coming off of them and explained that this is the best way you've found to make a hole in the wall to accomodate the horizontal vent kit. Better yet something closely resembling a shaped charge.

I won't be trying that btw.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

ohhhh!!!I like the shape charge!!! I watch those shows on Discovery about families and companies that blow shyit up for a living.....Haa...some black duck tape...inquire about homeowners insurance....blast away!!

Yee Haw, that's 250!!


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Hey that means you're now in the secret order of the lounging business lizard plumbers club. Bet you can't wait to find out all that secret stuff you've been missing out on :laughing:.


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