# What happens when I'm sick



## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Woke up this morning a little under the weather, so I took the day off. I get a call from one of the guys on the job about an hour ago to let me know what they got done today on the apartments we are currently plumbing. He then informs me that the crew(including the owner of our company and boss) decided to drill and lay out some DWV(all PVC). I can understand my boss being a bit rusty but this is now the mess they left me with and I cant decide which solution I like better as far as time and material are concerned. Please feel free to chime in. The best part is, the whole first and half the second floor was drilled like this. A total of 34 units :no: Sorry about the diagram, I used Paint:laughing:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

:blink: good luck


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Is one of them supposed to be the solution?


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Dont call in sick again!! You might feel under the weather but if you look back on this then you will be the judge; a 3rd day off work to rest the 22ozbeer off or one less headache to deal with.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Maybe just take another day off and let them finish.............


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

slickrick said:


> Is one of them supposed to be the solution?


Sorry Rick, the diagram on the left is the way they layed it out. The diagram on the right is 2 different solutions that I came up with. 1 being a separate waste stack for the lavs and then tie into Wye or waste tee to vent 2 floor WC and 2 being a separate soil stack for the 3rd floor WC's. Unless you see another simple...? This is what I came up with, without completly having to re-drill the units.


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Maybe just take another day off and let them finish.............


Lol:laughing: That would be putting myself out of a job, That could be a big enough F-up to fold up the company, especially at Prevailing wage.:whistling2:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

We use IPC here. Have you checked your code book in regards to vertical wet venting. I know it is allowed some places, but wet venting 1 floor over another is frowned on here. I don't have a code book here to check and see exactly what size the vertical pipe size would have to be. Have you checked?


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

slickrick said:


> We use IPC here. Have you checked your code book in regards to vertical wet venting. I know it is allowed some places, but wet venting 1 floor over another is frowned on here. I don't have a code book here to check and see exactly what size the vertical pipe size would have to be. Have you checked?


We also use IPC but a MI version. Some inspectors refer to venting like this "wet venting" and some consider this "waste stack venting" I also thought about the 3rd floor lav being on the line venting the 2nd floor as the code book says when waste stack venting any horizontal offsets are prohibited. Theoretically it seems fine but I think im leaning towards just running another 3" line for the 3rd floor toilet like in the "solution 2" That way the inspector cannot give me any BS. 3" solid core is more expensive but at least I know its right


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*You need a raise...*

It looks like if you were to tie in both of the 2 inch lav stacks together into 
the main 3 inch verticle line a few feet below that toilet
 and just leave the lower toilet alone??



you better not take any more days off work...

and keep your boss in the office where he belongs...:laughing:...

.


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## ironandfire (Oct 9, 2008)

I've seen a couple of my bosses kick some ase too. I couldn't have done it without them.


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

ironandfire said:


> I've seen a couple of my bosses kick some ase too. I couldn't have done it without them.


Yeah he's a great guy, more of a friend / co-worker. Here is another solution that would probably be easy to incorporate. Then it deletes the 3rd floor lav going horizontal past the 2nd floor WC. Man I'm sick, and my brain is on overload:surrender:


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## wundumguy (Apr 3, 2010)

Take a couple more sick days... then start your own biz!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

This is the way we use to do apartment buildings or office building..

It was called modified stack venting..... We have to carry main vent to lowest floor level.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

According to IPC, section 910, "waste stack vent" the stack receiving the discharge from the sinks and tubs would be allowed as long as no offsets are made in the stack.

Waste stack vents are not allowed to receive the discharge from W/C's or urinals.

If there is a W/C at the base of your stack on the 1st floor, what you have wouldn't fly.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> This is the way we use to do apartment buildings or office building..
> 
> It was called modified stack venting..... We have to carry main vent to lowest floor level.


I believe they call this multi-story wet venting now OS, they changed all kinds of wording and such with the 2006 update. No such thing as a back vent anymore...


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

slickrick said:


> According to IPC, section 910, "waste stack vent" the stack receiving the discharge from the sinks and tubs would be allowed as long as no offsets are made in the stack.
> 
> Waste stack vents are not allowed to receive the discharge from W/C's or urinals.
> 
> If there is a W/C at the base of your stack on the 1st floor, what you have wouldn't fly.


Thanks Rick, I know all of that(no offsets etc.)The 1st floor I vented separate on the UG. So this is all ties downstream from the 1st floor WC. This all started with the ****ty design from the architect as usual. I was afraid of changing the design due to the hold up of approvals from the city and builder. If It was up to me I would've stacked this building out on oversized "waste tees" or "diver helmet" type fittings to make it easy on the guys. I'm gonna get the inspector out tomorrow if possible because they always have the final say. Until then, just focus on waterpipe and gas:thumbup:


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> This is the way we use to do apartment buildings or office building..
> 
> It was called modified stack venting..... We have to carry main vent to lowest floor level.


Thats the same way I stack out the hotels that we do. I usually tie the "vent stack" back into the base of the soil stack riser. So simple, I wish I could do that on these apartments.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

slickrick said:


> According to IPC, section 910, "waste stack vent" the stack receiving the discharge from the sinks and tubs would be allowed as long as no offsets are made in the stack.
> 
> Waste stack vents are not allowed to receive the discharge from W/C's or urinals.
> 
> If there is a W/C at the base of your stack on the 1st floor, what you have wouldn't fly.


 



I call them 'combination waste and vent'. To add to what Rick said, also the stack has to run all the way up undiminished in its diameter (must stay same size all the way up), and it has to be oversized. In other words if 50 dfu's could drain into a 4" vertical pipe, then a combination waste and vent has to be a bit larger, say 5" or 6". And like Rick states it cannot offset all the way up.


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I call them 'combination waste and vent'. To add to what Rick said, also the stack has to run all the way up undiminished in its diameter (must stay same size all the way up), and it has to be oversized. In other words if 50 dfu's could drain into a 4" vertical pipe, then a combination waste and vent has to be a bit larger, say 5" or 6". And like Rick states it cannot offset all the way up.


Thats not considered "combination waste and vent". It's considered "waste stack venting" but I guess It, as always, comes down to interpertation:whistling2:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

If I remember correctly, a combination waste and vent system is a horizontal system that the branches must remain horizontal, until they turn vertical and become a "tail piece" connecting to the fixture. But I could be wrong.


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

*Problem solved*

I've found my easy fix. It just took a couple bud lights:thumbup:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Looks good. :thumbup:


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

What are these floor drains doing?Any condensate going in and they are considered a receptor here and need to be individually vented.Anyone using the bottom floor toilet? Ditto...needs it's own 2" vent.BTW I had to be out sick today too.
Butter slug down some dayquill and hit 'er hard Wed.


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Mpls Jay said:


> What are these floor drains doing?Any condensate going in and they are considered a receptor here and need to be individually vented.Anyone using the bottom floor toilet? Ditto...needs it's own 2" vent.


Floor drains do receive condensate from furnace and also for WH pans. The 1st floor WC is wet vented in underground by first floor lav:thumbsup:


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Maybe just take another day off and let them finish.............


 Just remember that thought for when it is time to get the inspections.:thumbup:


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Minus the extra vent for the top WC...I got a little carried away lol...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

markb said:


> Minus the extra vent for the top WC...I got a little carried away lol...


Red tag here, for the low dry vents.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Red tag here, for the low dry vents.


Green sticker for where I'm from :thumbup:


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

markb said:


> Green sticker for where I'm from :thumbup:


So your allowed to multi story wet vent in your part of Canada? I kinda thought we were all on the same code?... 

Lifer...


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Red tag here, for the low dry vents.


There are some pretty strict rules where you hail from Rick. I find it so interesting how different jurisdictions' code can vary so... so much!


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I figured "low vents" were in most codes. We use IPC. If enough back-ups occur, you will lose your vent eventually.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

slickrick said:


> I figured "low vents" were in most codes. We use IPC. If enough back-ups occur, you will lose your vent eventually.


I have to apologize. Having never worked outside of Ontario, I am not familiar with the acronyms "IPC" or "UPC". I work under the authority of "Ontario code and guide for plumbing, 2006" although I have been led to believe that most of the country relies on "NPC-National Plumbing Code." I will take some pics next time I think of it to show you what I have had pass inspection.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

I don't know a about the maritimes, but according to the ontario building code we are allowed.


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

markb said:


> Green sticker for where I'm from :thumbup:


 
Horizontal dry vents below flood level rim? Then Ontario is way different than the BC or National codes. And don't multistorey wet vents have to all be fixtures of the same types?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

plumber666 said:


> Horizontal dry vents below flood level rim? Then Ontario is way different than the BC or National codes. And don't multistorey wet vents have to all be fixtures of the same types?


When you really think about it all vents start below the flood level rim of any fixture.


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

markb said:


> Minus the extra vent for the top WC...I got a little carried away lol...


Thanks for lookin out, but I started stacking DWV today with the layout like the last diagram i posted. Also, we can't offset vents below FLR here and I didnt have enough room to catch a vent vertical off my horizontal toilet lines. So I just washed the toilets with my lavs. 5 units down, 42 to go lol.

Thanks all who posted to my thread, It helped.:thumbsup:

Here's a pic of the E. wing of the building, I'll try and post more as we progress.


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

And here is a pic of the underground of the same wing that we completed about 2 months ago

Note the buldging Fernco cap on the 4" C/O riser from the air test:thumbup:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Air test on PVC  :no: Dangerous man, Dangerous. :blink:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

markb said:


> Minus the extra vent for the top WC...I got a little carried away lol...


I know you said forget about the upper WC vent but besides not needing it you cannot connect it to the vent stack below the FLR of the WC. :whistling2:


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Pipe Rat said:


> Air test on PVC  :no: Dangerous man, Dangerous. :blink:


 It's solidcore pipe with 5 psi. We do it all the time. Wouldn't want to be standing over a Fernco cap when it blew off though:blink:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Use Caution

I would never risk testing any pvc with a compressable gas. Hydrostatic testing is the way to go. All it takes is a faulty guage and people get hurt. Even at 5 psi you are storing alot of energy. Pvc can fail catastrophically with compressed gas or air. 

If you do though I would suggest using a guage that doesnt read higher than three times your test pressure and verify its operation. Maybe even go as far as using duplicate guages to confirm there is not a problem.

It is no longer allowed in our area because people have gotten hurt.


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## waldrop (Dec 18, 2009)

Pipe Rat said:


> Use Caution
> 
> I would never risk testing any pvc with a compressable gas. Hydrostatic testing is the way to go. All it takes is a faulty guage and people get hurt. Even at 5 psi you are storing alot of energy. Pvc can fail catastrophically with compressed gas or air.
> 
> ...


I agree air is dangerous five years ago while testing 54" ductile iron sewer plug gave way and blew three manhole covers off ,the runs where 400' each .I think we only had 3.5 psi on it at the time


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