# Bowl siphoning



## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

I was on a service call today and the lady asked if I would look at her toilet in the master bath. The bowl would siphon down about an inch or so and then stop. She indicated this has been going on for a while and is gradually getting worse. The trap was clear from obstruction and I flushed large amount of TP to make sure it was not partially clogged on the back side of the trap. It worked the way it was supposed to. On the inside of the trap had some allege growing and went as far up the trap as I could see.
I sold the lady some Bio Clean and told her to pour some bleach water in the bowl first and leave it set for a while, then flush well before using the Bio Clean.
Have any of you ran into this and do you have a better solution to solve the issue? Any idea what causes it?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Probably got a partial stoppage or a vent is obstructed.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Was the algae you saw thick enough that it could be wicking some water out of the bowl?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Is the bio clean a bacteria based product?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Sounds to me like it's a venting problem. Or an obstruction, but if you flushed all that tp, then we can rule out a obstruction.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

String or dental floss can get stuck and wick water down the trap. It can be such a small amount that it doesn't cause a stoppage, but will wick the water down.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

grandpa said:


> Was the algae you saw thick enough that it could be wicking some water out of the bowl?


It definitely had a trail over the trap but was not real heavy


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> Is the bio clean a bacteria based product?


It is an enzyme that eats grease, hair and all the other good stuff in waste pipe and does not have an effect on the system.


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> Sounds to me like it's a venting problem. Or an obstruction, but if you flushed all that tp, then we can rule out a obstruction.


I agree it's a venting issue, try filling up and dropping other fixtures in the same bathroom and if the toilet level drops its a good chance it's a venting problem.


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

i second the venting issue


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Lmp said:


> I agree it's a venting issue, try filling up and dropping other fixtures in the same bathroom and if the toilet level drops its a good chance it's a venting problem.


 Learn something everyday:thumbsup:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Drains about an inch and stops? Sounds like the porcelain over the years became thin and a hole in the trap exposed.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Drains about an inch and stops? Sounds like the porcelain over the years became thin and a hole in the trap exposed.



I've heard of that with some of TOTOs that were a few years old, was told that there was an imperfection caused by a "sand hole" that let the water out a bit. It didn't do it when it was new, but only after a couple of years.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Drains about an inch and stops? Sounds like the porcelain over the years became thin and a hole in the trap exposed.


 House is about twelve years old and the toilet is a Briggs. There is no issue with water leaking on to the floor or the ceiling below.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

mpsllc said:


> Learn something everyday:thumbsup:


 I checked for venting issue by running water in the other fixture and it did not change in the bowl at all.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

HSI said:


> I checked for venting issue by running water in the other fixture and it did not change in the bowl at all.


Just running water may not show it...You need to fill them and dump, to get enough water to see if it siphons...


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Drains about an inch and stops? Sounds like the porcelain over the years became thin and a hole in the trap exposed.


Agree


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Pull the water closet, take it outside and set it on some concrete blocks or something to elevate it off the ground and fill the bowl with water.

If the water level drops you most likely have a problem in the bowl


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## Joseph clegg (Nov 12, 2011)

I have found similar problems with American standard champions when they are back to back but I agree sounds like vent is obstructed I would video the vent if no obstruction might be the toilet is seeping water from the tank possibly bad flapper but I'd check the vent


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

HSI said:


> House is about twelve years old and the toilet is a Briggs. There is no issue with water leaking on to the floor or the ceiling below.


 
Hole in the trap does not always show a water leak. I am going by the loss of 1 inch of water in the bowl and no more.Water reaches its own level.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> I've heard of that with some of TOTOs that were a few years old, was told that there was an imperfection caused by a "sand hole" that let the water out a bit. It didn't do it when it was new, but only after a couple of years.


This is really a frequent problem with toilets ,a bad cast and is purely a numbers game with the manufacturers


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Sounds like the defect mentioned.... The venting issue sounded possible too but you pretty much ruled that out. I go with the defective bowl


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

How many time are vents actually stopped up?


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## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

From the thread title I thought this was about something totally different, just sayin


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> How many time are vents actually stopped up?


Here in NYC I get that a lot, just cause you may have never seen that don't mean it's not possible.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Lmp said:


> Here in NYC I get that a lot, just cause you may have never seen that don't mean it's not possible.


Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just see that as the first response in a lot of cases and in the end it has nothing to do with it.

Actually, I am really curious just how often it happens.


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## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

does the customer have a dog?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

gladerunner said:


> does the customer have a dog?



Is this that "logic" joke?


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## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

I had a similar call once. finally figured out that the customers dog was drinking out of the bowl when no one was around. kept the bathroom door closed, problem solved


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

gladerunner said:


> I had a similar call once. finally figured out that the customers dog was drinking out of the bowl when no one was around. kept the bathroom door closed, problem solved


I find that to be grose, but I have heard of it before.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

gladerunner said:


> I had a similar call once. finally figured out that the customers dog was drinking out of the bowl when no one was around. kept the bathroom door closed, problem solved


Its not just Dogs.
I have a cat that drinks out of the toilet.
Its OK because the cat doesn't lick me when I get home.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Its not just Dogs.
> I have a cat that drinks out of the toilet.
> Its OK because the cat doesn't lick me when I get home.


That's because you probably left the cats water bowl sitting there for days without changing the water while the water in the toilet bowl is changed how many times a day? :laughing:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Its not just Dogs.
> I have a cat that drinks out of the toilet.
> Its OK because the cat doesn't lick me when I get home.


 Seat and lid always goes down in our house to keep the critters from drinking out of the toilet.

The habit is so ingrained after all these years that we find ourselves doing it at other peoples homes when we visit.


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