# Ruud Rep Was Wrong



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

So I go out and deal with a NG Ruud water heater 2 days ago, it was only a three year old tank, no pilot on at burner, self container burner, I was thinking therm-o-coupler but wait, how can it be the coupler if the pilot won't fire up at all, it can't be it, if pilot won't lite at all no way will the coupler work, fine that's not the problem.

I have a visual spark though the viewing window, maybe the gas is not there yet, so hold button down longer, not happening, no fire, ok so I'm kinda puzzled, since I have not had to deal with this type of heater before, so.

I check to make sure there is gas flow to the controller, which there was, okay so now what, so I proceed to remover the burner unit, disconnect and pull it out, after disconnect, flip it, reconnect so burner is outside the heater.

I check to make sure I have gas flow to the burner, yes there was , I could here it a smell it, so now I check for gas flow to the pilot, press the button down, nothing, ok at this time I was frustrated and contacted my supplier of Ruud, they gave me the number to there tech, call and told them what was happening what I have done to test the unit.

I told him there was flow to burner and none to pilot, he said, it is the controller, I said sweet, under warranty, overnight delivery, fix next day and be done. Next day no feakin delivery, :furious:, Called them back, they said they missed the freight, :furious:, why could they not tell me at the day I called it was late to ship that day, tenants now had to be put up in a motel by the property managers, the following day part comes in, cool replace the controller and I'll be done, guess what, it did not solve the problem, :furious:, 

I thought they knew what the hell was wrong with this heater, after all they build them right. I took there word for it, believed it to be the controller, well since that did not work there was no way to fix this heater without more parts, not going to put the tenants up in a motel over the weekend, we come to the conclusion it was the pilot orifice that was more then likely clogged up, this heater was only three years old, so we wound up taking out the Ruud and putting in a Bradford White.

We are now hoping to do a swap out with the supply house, bad heater for a new one, call it a warrant swap, sounds fare, then keep the new one on hand for a new install somewhere else. Since we did not use a Ruud heater on the change out and put in a BW.

I'm not a fan of Ruud.

Thanks for listening.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

did it have the dye in the burner chamber? maybe some flamable vapors got in ther and tripped it off. the rheems can't be reset.


Plumber Jim


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I tried it on the outside of the chamber so I took that out of the equation. I did see some soot, not a heavy soot layer, but you could see it on the burner it's self, not the entire burner. only a small area near the pilot, I thought it might have been normal but was unsure.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Why not just clean the pilot orifice?


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

uaplumber said:


> Why not just clean the pilot orifice?


That's what I was thinking also. Surprised the rep did not suggest that. Did you check that?


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I did not have the proper tool to get that done, and at the time we were in a get it done situation to solve the problem all together. but, get this, I called Keller Supply a Rudd disto, asked if we could do a swap out of the burner unit, they called Ruud and got the ok, by this time our office manager said just put in a new one, so that is what we did, I'm sure the swap on the burners would have solved it right then and there.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> I tried it on the outside of the chamber so I took that out of the equation. I did see some soot, not a heavy soot layer, but you could see it on the burner it's self, not the entire burner. only a small area near the pilot, I thought it might have been normal but was unsure.


are you sure that was soot and not the dye they use when there is a flamable vapor ignition? when that happens a plate closes off the air suply to the chamber and its toast.

Plumber Jim


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't really know what the problem was, with the unit outside the chamber, I could get gas flow to the burner but nothing to the pilot, I was able to get the flow though the controller if I disconnected the lead to the pilot, but on reconnect no flow, so that would tell me it was the lead/orifice clogged up. In my career this is the 1st I had to work with this problem, we have more electric here then gas heaters.

So I have a better understanding on this orifice, what is needed to clear that out?


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

Hey Ron, sorry to hear about your delima, I ran into a similar situation awhile back click this link here, http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22851

Seems that tech support is not what it used to be.


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## super plumber (Oct 19, 2008)

About a month ago i had a B/W water out of box that pilot light would not stay on. Called tech support and guy had me try a couple of things...still no pilot light. Tech support told me to call manu. rep and get pilot assembly, burner, and control valve. Manu. rep (also got a run around...told me i was not holding button down long enough...10-15 minutes shoulda been enough) told me to get parts from supply house...supply house does not stock all parts because they have no issues with B/W units. Supply house says let call it a leaker and replace whole unit. I drive to suuply house and replace whole water heater...because of no pilot light!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Rheem and ruud went down the toilet when they were bought by american standard.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Many times simply blowing hard down the pilot tube will unblock a plugged orifice. If it is lodged tight and is hard you will need to use a drill bit to clear it. But remember, use the bit 2 sizes smaller than what the orifice needs to be when you are hand drilling it. The orifice size will be marked on the side of the orifice.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

uaplumber said:


> Many times simply blowing hard down the pilot tube will unblock a plugged orifice. If it is lodged tight and is hard you will need to use a drill bit to clear it. But remember, use the bit 2 sizes smaller than what the orifice needs to be when you are hand drilling it. The orifice size will be marked on the side of the orifice.


I tried to blow through the tube, I was not able to make that happen, and was not sure how that worked, is it free and clear with no pressure required, or does it require a curtain PSI.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I would use my jetter nozzle cleaner thingy I got from US Jet.

It is a bunch of little "tooth pick" things that are made of metal the are different sizes.

You are better off with Bradford White, although they have their problems also, there isn't a better water heater.

MADE IN THE USA ALSO!


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> I would use my jetter nozzle cleaner thingy I got from US Jet.
> 
> It is a bunch of little "tooth pick" things that are made of metal the are different sizes.
> 
> ...



Thanks WCP, I'll get a set of those cleaners, I know the ones you are talking about, so the next time I come across another heater with this problem, might be 24 years from now but what the hay, I'll be ready then. :laughing:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

a little late but what i've cleaned orifices with are fitting brush wires. yank one out of a brush with a pair of needle nose pliers and use that to poke at it.





paul


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## Dr Steevil (Jan 25, 2009)

I was just about to say the same thing. Same thing I use to clear clogged orifices in flushometer diaphragms.

I had a similar situation about a month ago and replaced the burner, pilot assembly and gas control valve. That did the trick, and yes it was still under warranty and I had no problem getting the parts.

Check this out and read the bit about jumpering the electrical terminals.

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1tl9e-rhemm-gas-water-heater-pilot


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Dr S

Thanks. the pilot assemble is more then likely what was wrong with it, why did Ruud Rep not catch on to it, he could have sent a new assembly.

When I said we were going to replace the burner unit, I meant the complete unit to include the pliot assembly and thremo with it. Can the pilot assembly be unclogged on site?


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## Dr Steevil (Jan 25, 2009)

Reread my previous post. I think the answer lies there. Since I replaced basically everything I wouldn't know exactly what the problem was, but I am now curious if indeed the ECO had tripped.


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## Dr Steevil (Jan 25, 2009)

And btw, if indeed the ECO trips, you have to replace the entire gas control valve. Its an easy fix and you don't even have to drain the water heater to do it.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Thanks I now have a better understanding on what to look for and do next time. :yes:


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## Dr Steevil (Jan 25, 2009)

You're welcome. And since you have the old one, maybe you can test it at your shop somehow. Would be nice to see what you find out.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

We just plan on doing a swap out with the supplier, warranty it out, and get a new one on hand to put in somewhere when we need it.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Funny, this whole thread was going through my head this am, I had a bad thermocouple. :yes: That was it, it was on a Rheem
I was looking for an orfic to clean, but the thermocouple test at 2 mv


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> Funny, this whole thread was going through my head this am, I had a bad thermocouple. :yes: That was it, it was on a Rheem
> I was looking for an orfic to clean, but the thermocouple test at 2 mv


How do you test a thermocouple? Just heat it up and test voltage?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Um, I'm pretty sure thermocouples are not an elecrical component there Mr. plumber guy.


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

Protech said:


> Um, I'm pretty sure thermocouples are not an elecrical component there Mr. plumber guy.


Um, maybe you should research how a thermocouple actually works, Mr. Apparently Knows Everything But How a Thermocouple Works Guy


To WCP:
Do you have a special meter to read mv? I don't have mine handy, but I doubt it reads that low, accurately at least.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

You can get a thermocouple tester that screws into the connection of the gas valve. You then screw the thermocouple into it. Then you can measure Mv.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Yeah, I just went and got one. Your right. I can't believe all this time I thought they worked off of pressure. I guess Protech is the dunce for the day.

My bad:sweatdrop:


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

fuggeddaboutit:thumbup:

uaplumber: are those testers expensive? Is it worth testing them? It seems like sometimes they work intermittently; do they not produce full voltage if they are going bad, or is it a working or it's not type of thing?


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

It's amazing how many people change thermocouples yet never test them. I like to test them first and save me the trouble of having to change one only to find it's something else like a gas valve.


Plumber Jim


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> It's amazing how many people change thermocouples yet never test them. I like to test them first and save me the trouble of having to change one only to find it's something else like a gas valve.
> 
> 
> Plumber Jim


Will testing tell you if one is 'going bad' (working intermittently) or only if it is totally dead?


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

It will give you a reading to the current output. basically you can see if its weak or dead or good. I haven't seen one go intermittent.


Plumber jim


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## cougfan (Jan 2, 2009)

Just had a state water heater on saturday doing the same sort of thing and changed out the gas control valve to get it working,but never knew you could test the thermo couple,need to get a tester now and I learned something new thanks:yes:


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> It will give you a reading to the current output. basically you can see if its weak or dead or good. I haven't seen one go intermittent.
> 
> 
> Plumber jim


I guess that is what I was asking, if they get weak or intermittent. I could see the possibility that what I've been calling intermittent is actually weak. I just called it that because sometimes you'll light one, and will last a few days and go out, and will repeat that process for quite a while.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Green Country said:


> I guess that is what I was asking, if they get weak or intermittent. I could see the possibility that what I've been calling intermittent is actually weak. I just called it that because sometimes you'll light one, and will last a few days and go out, and will repeat that process for quite a while.


 
Yea, I have found if you have a weak thermocouple and some condensate hits it, It may go out.


Plumber Jim


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

There is an adapter you can get, it's a few $$, so you can test the thermocouple in real time.

Got it at johnstone supply. I just screw it in to the unitrol, and screw the thermocouple in, light it, time it and check the mv


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