# Hiring an apprentice



## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

I have a question on hiring apprentices. How many of you do? And what do you look for in hiring an apprentice? And how many refuse to hire apprentices and why? 
I found it very difficult to get an apprenticeship here. I searched for almost a year, and I believe I have a good resume' and work history. I'm 27 years old, so I don't know if it's because I was older, I thought it would help me being a little older with real life and work experience .


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ace4548 said:


> I have a question on hiring apprentices. How many of you do? And what do you look for in hiring an apprentice? And how many refuse to hire apprentices and why?
> I found it very difficult to get an apprenticeship here. I searched for almost a year, and I believe I have a good resume' and work history. I'm 27 years old, so I don't know if it's because I was older, I thought it would help me being a little older with real life and work experience .


So...Where is here?? and 27 is not that old... 

A couple of things to do when you apply

if you go into the application all clean and neat looking that is a must

dont walk in to meet your boss looking and smelling like you slept on a bar room floor last night.....:no:

dont ask what day is pay day... 
that will tell them that you are a total moron...:no:.

dont ask what they offer in the way of benefits 
in the first few minutes that is also good..:no::no:

dont ask if you get a take home truck :no:

the rest you just have to wing it.....:yes:

good luck


.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

I live in the Fox Valley in Wisconsin.. I did find an apprenticeship at a very good mechanical contractor. I was always very clean and well dressed. Nice Carharts pants , button up shirt, good work boots. I always turned in my resume' in person. I have great work history, I have worked at Oshkosh Truck for 9 years as a mechanic. I took a $12/hr paycut to get my apprenticeship but, it's what I want to do. 
I was told by many companies that most places don't offer apprenticeships , and that I was waiting my time. Some were nice, some were kinda rude about it. I was just wondering how many people hire apprentices , and what you look for, what has been things you want from your apprentices, bad experiences with them etc.. And then if you don't hire, why? Just curious. Thanks.. Trying to learn, and work as hard as I can. I know I'm a big investment , and I want to try and be the best I can.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

ace4548 said:


> I live in the Fox Valley in Wisconsin.. I did find an apprenticeship at a very good mechanical contractor. I was always very clean and well dressed. Nice Carharts pants , button up shirt, good work boots. I always turned in my resume' in person. I have great work history, I have worked at Oshkosh Truck for 9 years as a mechanic. I took a $12/hr paycut to get my apprenticeship but, it's what I want to do.
> I was told by many companies that most places don't offer apprenticeships , and that I was waiting my time. Some were nice, some were kinda rude about it. I was just wondering how many people hire apprentices , and what you look for, what has been things you want from your apprentices, bad experiences with them etc.. And then if you don't hire, why? Just curious. Thanks.. Trying to learn, and work as hard as I can. I know I'm a big investment , and I want to try and be the best I can.


Why? Hiring an apprentice is an investment that may, or may not, pay off. Typically your smaller shops won't make that investment - too much of a risk.

Also, depending on where you are, sometimes there are more than enough plumbers available.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

I do agree it is a risk.. How did most of you get your chance as an apprentice? Through a large company? Or smaller shop? I keep reading how there will be a shortage of journeyman plumbers in the next 10-15 years as, a lot of the baby boomers retire.. If this is the case, how do you fill that void if you you don't hire apprentices soon?


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

ace4548 said:


> I do agree it is a risk.. How did most of you get your chance as an apprentice? Through a large company? Or smaller shop? I keep reading how there will be a shortage of journeyman plumbers in the next 10-15 years as, a lot of the baby boomers retire.. If this is the case, how do you fill that void if you you don't hire apprentices soon?


I think they should take the trades to the high school level. We had Vo-Tech Schools growing up, but somewhere along the line, the party line became you had to go to college to amount to something in life. Now we have way too many young people in college that will end up graduating with useless degrees and in debt.

Mike Rowe is actively associated with steering the next generation to the trades.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

This is very true.. I graduated 10 years ago, and not one time did my guidance counselor mention the trades. I took almost all tech classes my senior year, and even did a construction class for half the day out at a sight.. But nothing to do with plumbing.. I find it very odd looking back on it.. So I built houses after highschool, got laid off when things got slow , had plumbing been a choice instead of framing and building, who knows I might have started right away. I honestly didn't know a thing about plumbing. The only people I know that became plumbers, were people who had family members as plumbers.... Seems education has really gone away from the trades.. And I wonder why?


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## tailpiece (Jan 3, 2015)

Yeah the trades are not pushed like they used to, out of all my friends and football buddys and just my graduating high school class in general i am the only one that didnt go the drug addict or college route, i dont know one guy from my senior class that went the trades route, kind of crazy thinking about it because i glorified it since i was a child


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

To me something needs to be done about this. I had a graduating class of over 600 people and I know of one person that became a plumber.. And it's because all 3 of his older brothers became one. I worked with a guy who owned his own business on the side, doing home repairs, and remodels. I told him about 4 years ago, I'd like to get into plumbing. The first thing out of his mouth was" do you have any family or friends that are plumbers? Otherwise good luck." I gave up for awhile but, then a year ago, I said screw that noise, and literally applied in person to over 75 plumbing shops in the area . Of those 75 I had 4 interviews. 3 of them turned into second interviews , and 2 of those called and said they had to give it to a family member.lol.. But I eventually got this one, and couldn't be happier, and feel even more proud for all the work I put in. Hopefully they find a way to make it easier to get one though. More vocational schools etc.. To help set you up with an apprenticeship .


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

This is one small benefit of the union, they place you with a company, and even if out of work you still receive training... Not making this a union vs nonunion debate, just stating a fact. 

As far as what companies look for... I don't know, im not an owner, but I do know that you need to be Johnny on the spot.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

That's not how the union works here in Wisconsin.. I got into a union contractor.. But yo have to find the job, just like anywhere else.. There was no taking a test, having an interview, and then you are ranked , like I have read some state have.. It's just get all the footwork done with getting your letter of introduction, and then hope you find a job.. I believe I would have been ranked highly if this would have been one of those states.. I scored in the top 10% on my accuplacer, and have been working with hydraulics for almost 10 years.. Maybe it's just this state that needs reform.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

ace4548 said:


> That's not how the union works here in Wisconsin.. I got into a union contractor.. But yo have to find the job, just like anywhere else.. There was no taking a test, having an interview, and then you are ranked , like I have read some state have.. It's just get all the footwork done with getting your letter of introduction, and then hope you find a job.. I believe I would have been ranked highly if this would have been one of those states.. I scored in the top 10% on my accuplacer, and have been working with hydraulics for almost 10 years.. Maybe it's just this state that needs reform.


Wisconsin isn't exactly a union stronghold.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

See I alway thought Wisconsin was a decent union state.. I have worked union since I was 19 years old (9years), so maybe I'm not as familiar with outside of a union. I do know our governor is doing everything he can to get rid of them all together.. But that's another thread. I'm very happy with where I am at, and once in the union, it's a good gig.


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## CT18 (Sep 18, 2012)

It was till that Lunatic got elected. Not trying to make this about politics. Michigan went the way of Right to (not) work and we like Wisconsin are waiting on all those companies to come flocking.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

You are correct about that.. I hope he tries for president just so he won't be our governor anymore. I don't think he will get elected.. If he does, may God have mercy on us all.lol


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## Dan (Nov 29, 2011)

ace4548 said:


> You are correct about that.. I hope he tries for president just so he won't be our governor anymore. I don't think he will get elected.. If he does, may God have mercy on us all.lol


bad move Ace, I had two shops within two hours of the Fox Valley I was going to refer you to, but they like the Guv.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

That's ok, I have an apprenticeship. The whole point of this wasn't for me to get a job. It was to see how the business owners feel about hiring apprentices, and what they look for when hiring an apprentice. I found a great contractor, and I'm part of the UA400.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

You live in Wisconsin Dan? 
Everyone has their opinions on politics, I did mean to get off the topic and start on that.. It just goes that way sometimes.


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## Dan (Nov 29, 2011)

ace4548 said:


> You live in Wisconsin Dan?
> Everyone has their opinions on politics, I did mean to get off the topic and start on that.. It just goes that way sometimes.


Born and raised


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## CT18 (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm not a big fan of hiring or not on political beliefs.

The definitive national jobs report that came out recently confirmed how badly Wisconsin's economy continues to sputter under the stewardship of Gov. Scott Walker.

In 2013, as in every year since Walker became governor, job growth in Wisconsin significantly trailed the national average and Wisconsin ranked just 37th among U.S. states in the rate of employment growth. Taking all three years (so far) of Walker's tenure as a whole, employment in Wisconsin grew at just 59% of the national rate.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

To be honest I hate politics.. I don't trust any of them.. Just vote based on what might put more money in my pocket


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## CT18 (Sep 18, 2012)

That's the way it should be kid, vote how you want to vote. Good luck in the trade.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

Thanks CT.. I'm loving it so far.. It's a lot to learn, but I rent books from the library weekly and study a little every night.. I'm taking more night schooling then I need right now to get ahead, and get as many certs as I can


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## T Bone (Sep 12, 2013)

ace4548 said:


> Thanks CT.. I'm loving it so far.. It's a lot to learn, but I rent books from the library weekly and study a little every night.. I'm taking more night schooling then I need right now to get ahead, and get as many certs as I can


Rent books from the library? Get as many certs as you can? As a master plumber here in WI your lingo sounds a little fishy to me. Never did I or any apprentices I know of ever have to rent books and night school goes towards your unpaid hours not certs.... whatever that means. So tell us exactly what books are you renting? What certs are you getting?


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

I am getting welding certifications and service and repair right now.. I have rented books on my own accord from the library on comercial plumbing. I did not have much info on this subject when I first started, and wanted to learn as much as I can asap.. I can show my credentials if you would like.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

Night schooling does go towards my unpaid hours. The only classes they have available for me to get my required hours for my first year were these, because I started in the middle of a semester . If my lingo is off I apologize ..


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

T Bone said:


> Rent books from the library? Get as many certs as you can? As a master plumber here in WI your lingo sounds a little fishy to me. Never did I or any apprentices I know of ever have to rent books and night school goes towards your unpaid hours not certs.... whatever that means. So tell us exactly what books are you renting? What certs are you getting?


I still get books from the library to study on topics I'm interested in... geothermal and what not. 

Also, certifications are something that anyone should strive for. Seems the kid is legit.


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## T Bone (Sep 12, 2013)

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a apprentice can get any certifications such as med gas. If he was my 1st year apprentice I would be telling him the only book he needs to be reading is the Wisconsin Uniform Plumbing Code.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

T Bone said:


> Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a apprentice can get any certifications such as med gas. If he was my 1st year apprentice I would be telling him the only book he needs to be reading is the Wisconsin Uniform Plumbing Code.


I was rigging, crane signaling, first aid/cpr, osha 10, firestop, core, and manufactures propress certified by my 2nd year. 

I read non stop about plumbing. 

Good thing he's not your apprentice, code is no doubt important, but it doesn't hurt to learn as much as you can.


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## T Bone (Sep 12, 2013)

Flyout95 said:


> I was rigging, crane signaling, first aid/cpr, osha 10, firestop, core, and manufactures propress certified by my 2nd year.
> 
> I read non stop about plumbing.
> 
> Good thing he's not your apprentice, code is no doubt important, but it doesn't hurt to learn as much as you can.


OK I guess you got me with some of the certification that I wasn't really thinking about. However I would caution any 1st year apprentice on what they read because they wouldn't be able to differentiate between what meets our code and what doesn't. So when "it doesn't hurt to learn as much as you can" I say it does hurt if what your reading is wrong.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

Duly noted T Bone.. I appreciate your concerns about that.. And have found a few things I have read to be out of date.


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## eagleplumbing99 (Sep 19, 2013)

*keep up the great work!*

I think there isn't an clear answer to your question. You are going to get a bunch of different answers, if any at all.

I've found the "family" or best friends, or high school buddy is a very popular way to get new workers.

Here in Texas it's also staggering the amount of plumbers that are getting older and retiring, then the next to zero amount of younger people getting into the trades. It's not just Plumbing, it's all trades.

Like others have said, when I was in high school we had shop class, wood-shop, mechanics, etc...they did away with that a few years after I graduated high school (1995) and since then there is no real way for younger people to be introduced to the trades unless their family members work in a trade, so this is why most of the works are family members or friends of a family member in a trade.

It also doesn't help that since there are no trade classes in high school younger kids are being pushed towards college and computers. That's all fine and dandy, we need those people too, but we also need mechanics, electricians, plumbers, A/C and heating, etc....

I think it's awesome that you are taking time on your own to learn as much as possible. I've heard a lot of older plumbers say you can't learn this from a book. Well no you can't learn the hands on, but you can learn the concepts, you can learn the math and codes and reasoning behind why things are done a certain way. I like to know why I'm doing something and understand it, to me that's better than, "Well...we do it that way b/c that's the way I was taught..." You should be able to teach the next guy/gal how to do something ALONG with why we do it, in case they ask. Not all helpers will ask, the ones that do, it helps to have an answer for them.

I too went to school, graduated from Texas A&M University, worked a couple of "entry level" jobs that required a degree. I was not satisfied, I wanted to make a difference, help people. Also took a huge pay cut, went from around 30K per year to $8/hour. So I started as an apprentice at a small 2-3 man operation, we did it all new construction, repairs, service, I worked there for a few years and then moved up to a larger mainly new residential construction company. We had 50-60 guys working there and turned out a lot of houses, and some commercial. I worked there for a good while, earned my Tradesman, then Journeyman. Then I moved onto another company that worked more in Commercial and also did service, I wanted to learn all the phases.

The "issue" I found with most companies, I'm not saying this is with all of them, but they seem to put you where you work the fastest, where you're the most efficient and make them the most amount of money, time = money. The problem for someone like an apprentice with drive and work ethic and the drive to learn MORE, is you get stuck, like me. I was very good at top-outs. I was topping out houses left and right, I wanted to learn more, learn more about rough-ins, service, repairs, etc...I'd ask and they'd tell me, "when it slows down we'll put you on other areas." well when it slowed down they'd give us the day off, it doesn't make them money paying you to work slow, even if it did teach you something. Time = money. A lot of people don't want to train their replacements or their future competition. 

I'd rather teach the younger people how to do quality knowledgeable work than have a society with zero trades persons. 

So, now years after working and I mean YEARS, when I started I was told it would take around 4 years to earn my Journeyman hours, then take a test at Austin and then hold my J-lic for 1 year then I could apply to take the Master test...Well I did that, started the whole process in 2005, 2009 comes up I have my J-lic and am taking continued Ed in July of 2009, they said the Texas Senate and Labor commission has changed the rules, you now have to hold your J-lic for 4 years. I was kicked in the gut, I asked, I have to be grandfathered in right????? They said you have to have earned your J-lic by Jan 1 of 2009. I earned mine in March of 2009. So I was given 2 options:

1) work 4 more years
2) start over and join an approved Texas Apprenticeship program which would take 5 years to complete, which none had been created yet.

I picked option #1

2013 comes along I've put in my 4 years as a J and sent off my paperwork, took my test, passed and started my own service and repair plumbing company.

Looking back I could have gone to grad school or something else, 8 years is a long time, but over the big picture it's not that long if you're going to stick with it, I plan on living for a long time, I was learning a lot and working every day so 8 years is long or short, depends on how you look at it.

I'm glad I went this route. I work for myself, set my hours, I still have people to answer to, Customers but if it weren't for customers I would have a job so I have a good job. :thumbup:

So, that's my book, not sure if it answers your question: "what are we looking for when we higher an apprentice?"

Right now I'm a 1-man operation. The plumbing is the easy part, the computers, phones, record keeping, bills, that's the behind the scenes work.

If I was going to higher someone, I'd want the kid/younger person that does show up looking nice, shows up ON TIME, works hard every day, wants to learn, wants to master each task so I know at the end of the day when I get in a bind I can assign a task to him/her (one that I'd be more than willing to do myself) but a task that I know once assigned to that person they will complete it professionally. Not hurry through it, not have the "can't see if from my house attitude", if I can assign something to a helper or another plumber and I KNOW they will do a good job then that is 1 less worry on my plate. That would be job number 1, make my job easier, they are a "helper" not someone that's is supposed to create more headaches and more work for me. 

I understand there is going to be a learning curve and I'm willing to teach someone, but once they learn it and know what they are doing, I want the person that has the work ethic and brain power to do quality work.

I would said if you can help your boss by taking worries off his/her plate then you are well on your way. He will then give you more in the future, it may be a long time down the road as a lot of the older guys don't want to give up the reigns of control (they've been burnt a lot in the past) but if you prove yourself they will quickly learn who the hard works are, who the quality workers are and who the slackers are. The slackers have their place too, cleaning trucks, stocking pipe etc...give them the jobs that hopefully they can't mess up.

Hopefully this helps, stay informed, keep reading and learning, politics do a play part so make sure you keep up with the government changes (see above) and do your best. It's not easy but it's also not impossible, if you are dedicated you can make it work.

Gus Heinze
Eagle Plumbing
M40607


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

Thank you so much.. This has been very insightful.. You had a tough road to hoe on your way to being a plumber.. Glad it all worked out for you though.


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## Oso (Jan 12, 2011)

Have a Master in Wisconsin. But live out in Washington . Got my 40 yr pin from the UA Belong to Local 75 Milwaukee local. All I can say Keep on Reading & Learning, I use to dig and lay sewer and water with machines for MKE Plumbing Companies. Learned how to core drill concrete, Do anything to make you more valuable for your company you work for. Been doing this since 1972. Good Luck


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