# Let er rip



## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

I know you would do it differently


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

:/?


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

Again


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)




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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Those isolators you're using with the clevis hangers look nice. A cheaper, faster alternative I use are insulated j hangers made by Holdrite. We haven't tried them on anything larger than 4", but they are stout enough to handle any load we've placed on them so far.
http://holdrite.com/products/cpvc-supports/silencer-cpvc/holdrite-silencer-hangers/


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Beautiful work.

I figured out why commercial plumbers seem to be better crafters. Their work is hanging right out their in plain view. Residential plumbers either bury their stuff, cover it in cement, or put in crawl spaces where no sane person would go.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Plumber said:


> Beautiful work.
> 
> I figured out why commercial plumbers seem to be better crafters. Their work is hanging right out their in plain view. Residential plumbers either bury their stuff, cover it in cement, or put in crawl spaces where no sane person would go.


There are several variables to that though, in my opinion. Firstly, a significant portion of commercial work is performed by union shops. More manpower budgeted on a job as opposed to a non-union shop. Secondly, and to yer point, commercial guys do seem to take great pride in their work. I've experienced a friendly, yet intense, competitive atmosphere between plumbers & fitters on commercial jobs. Of course WE all know who the better tradesmen are!;-) ;-) Lastly, for me, commercial seems to be the last surviving bastion for craftsmanship. Plumbing gets done as spec'd, ie: copper, cast, etc.! That all said, there are magicians who work in residential. Show me a commercial guy who can install a vertical spa in someone's tile shower, that is not getting demo'd, and make it look amazing?!! Any of us who've been around a bit have seen or done the type work Chonkie seems to do on a regular basis. That **** would have a commercial guy pulling his/her hair out. I guess, sadly, the demise of residential craftsmanship has come at the hands of box stores, illegals and DIY sites.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

I agree with all of the above, and would like to add this:
I find it a lot easier to do showcase work in a setting with wide open surfaces that are plumb and level. It takes a different set of skills to make a plumbing job look presentable when you are not in an ideal setting such as when:
-the ceiling crumbles when you drill into it.
-the walls are a stone foundation in a cellar.
-the floor is half dirt.
-the area designated for your plumbing is surrounded by other pipe and utilities.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Not to knock commercial guys, but I've always found residential guys can do commercial and commercial guys when put into a residential setting struggle. In my 25 years of doing residential to industrial, residential work can be a struggle with framing conditions. You have to plan out your piping ,where commercial is wide open and most if not all the planning has been done for you. But as far as I'm concerned plumbing is plumbing, the same principle apply for hanger spacing, clean out requirements, proper pitch and DWV principles. Our licenses are all based off the same code in whatever state you work in so it comes down to how good of a mechanic you can be with the job you are working on.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

plumbdrum said:


> Not to knock commercial guys, but I've always found residential guys can do commercial and commercial guys when put into a residential setting struggle. In my 25 years of doing residential to industrial, residential work can be a struggle with framing conditions. You have to plan out your piping ,where commercial is wide open and most if not all the planning has been done for you. But as far as I'm concerned plumbing is plumbing, the same principle apply for hanger spacing, clean out requirements, proper pitch and DWV principles. Our licenses are all based off the same code in whatever state you work in so it comes down to how good of a mechanic you can be with the job you are working on.


I've always seen the opposite. It's mostly a struggle with quality.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Flyout95 said:


> I've always seen the opposite. It's mostly a struggle with quality.



Some residential guys yes, not all. I've seen some bad commercial guys also. Usually non-Union shops


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

plumbdrum said:


> Some residential guys yes, not all. I've seen some bad commercial guys also. Usually non-Union shops


I've always worked open-shop. Having said that, I've seen bums in both catagories. The open shops don't have a hall to draw from, so they wind up hiring a bunch of Mooks, just looking to cash a check long enough to collect again. On the other side, I've seen guys who couldn't sniff a chance at a job, except their union protects them. I have found, through personal experience, that the biggest handicap residential guys have, moving to commercial, is that we are too used to being neat & tidy. We think WAY too much also. The upside to that is that our work usually doesn't have to be fixed when we're done. Like PlumDrum said, it all comes down to the license. If we don't respect that piece of paper, and care about our craft enough, the paper means nothing. It's all in our hearts! Pride!!!!!!


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

mccmech said:


> I've always worked open-shop. Having said that, I've seen bums in both catagories. The open shops don't have a hall to draw from, so they wind up hiring a bunch of Mooks, just looking to cash a check long enough to collect again. On the other side, I've seen guys who couldn't sniff a chance at a job, except their union protects them. I have found, through personal experience, that the biggest handicap residential guys have, moving to commercial, is that we are too used to being neat & tidy. We think WAY too much also. The upside to that is that our work usually doesn't have to be fixed when we're done. Like PlumDrum said, it all comes down to the license. If we don't respect that piece of paper, and care about our craft enough, the paper means nothing. It's all in our hearts! Pride!!!!!!


See I've always had his coming to commercial jobs from a resi background and they are clueless about everything commercial. They don't understand hangers, they hack things in and they always have leaks.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Flyout95 said:


> See I've always had his coming to commercial jobs from a resi background and they are clueless about everything commercial. They don't understand hangers, they hack things in and they always have leaks.


I feel that our biggest disadvantage is that we're used to 16" -24" centers for joists. Additionally, working with plastic, more often than not, we're accustomed to closer hanger spans. Again, I feel we think about stuff more, instead of just "Phuck-It, it's on the drawing". I learned early on though, the tricks commercial guys use to keep up production. I guess, if you care enough, you'll take the time to become good at whatever.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Plumber N8's work looks nice. I think if he ran his waste and storm drain lines in PVC-DWV using the same amount of care, the work would be equally easy on our eyes.
On the other hand, if he were to run his water lines in pex, I'm thinking the impression would be less than favorable.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

mccmech said:


> I feel that our biggest disadvantage is that we're used to 16" -24" centers for joists. Additionally, working with plastic, more often than not, we're accustomed to closer hanger spans. Again, I feel we think about stuff more, instead of just "Phuck-It, it's on the drawing". I learned early on though, the tricks commercial guys use to keep up production. I guess, if you care enough, you'll take the time to become good at whatever.


If you go by most drawings, you'll fail your inspection. Two different jobs in the past 6 months have had undersized gas pipe, both should have been 3" but the engineer sized out 2½". 3 jobs with undersized water mains, worst was engineered for 2" but I sized it out to be 4". Probably a dozen or so with undersized venting, worst was 6 toilets, 8 hand sinks and a break room sink going over 100' and they sized it with 2" with a 4"x2" increaser before it went through the roof.
Add on to that the countless code violations and the fact they never do layovers with the other trades prints and you might as well wipe your ass with drawings these days.
The last company I worked for was strictly residential. Guy was in business for 30+ years. Couldn't size water, drainage, venting or gas to save his life. He thought the biggest drain in a house was 3", biggest vent aside from the stack was 2", largest water or gas main was 1". Couldn't understand why hanger spacing on 1½" PVC was closer together than 2".
There are hacks on both sides of it, but I've seen more hacks in residential. Seems like the profits are lower so they try to make up for it by slamming it in and forgetting about it. Even in the service side of it. Anyone will slam in a 40 gallon water heater in a house for $1,000 but if you're charging $10,000 for a 100 gallon heater something subconsciously tells you to give them what they pay for.


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## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

I think it looks great. I cant tell in pics, is cast hanging from strut or angle iron?


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

mccmech said:


> I guess, if you care enough, you'll take the time to become good at whatever.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## CT18 (Sep 18, 2012)

Flyout95 said:


> I've always seen the opposite. It's mostly a struggle with quality.


same here with residential guys coming to the big work. I was welding carbon steel on a job and had a res. guy pimping for me. We had to cut a piece of pipe and i was going to weld on a 90. i went for the wrap around when i came back he was cutting away with a porta band. i laughed for a minute then explained the importance of a square end to but up to. i had him hold the 90 while i tacked it,every time i struck an arc the fitting would be gone. he was turning his head when he saw the flash and move the fitting.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Good looking work there. New construction situations have many advantages over retrofit work in the areas of neatness.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Looks good plumberN8, kinda like plumbing at the factory before they put the machines in when a lift would still fit and reach where you needed to go...:laughing:


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## Love2Plumb (Aug 18, 2015)

plumberN8 said:


> I know you would do it differently


Looks Awesome!


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

Plumbus said:


> Those isolators you're using with the clevis hangers look nice. A cheaper, faster alternative I use are insulated j hangers made by Holdrite. We haven't tried them on anything larger than 4", but they are stout enough to handle any load we've placed on them so far.
> http://holdrite.com/products/cpvc-supports/silencer-cpvc/holdrite-silencer-hangers/


They are made by snappitz.com insulated pipe supports, check them out, way better than regular calcium blocks. I've used them in every size you can imagine, they will make what you need, just takes a minute to look ahead, they make what you order, not the fastest to get, but my favorite to install. If you run low just use the tops and have the insulators cover the rest


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

plumbdrum said:


> Some residential guys yes, not all. I've seen some bad commercial guys also. Usually non-Union shops


Dont get me started on unions


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

Plumbus said:


> Plumber N8's work looks nice. I think if he ran his waste and storm drain lines in PVC-DWV using the same amount of care, the work would be equally easy on our eyes.
> On the other hand, if he were to run his water lines in pex, I'm thinking the impression would be less than favorable.


Sadly I learned on plastic, I've found that there is still a market willing to pay for quality, I perfer to use ridgid material, so that's the work I seek. The PEX, csst and any spaghetti stile pipe all have their own tricks. I'd like to think I make them all look decent, wouldn't put anything but Cu in my home for domestic water though, for many reasons. Copper is by far the best water pipe I've seen as far as local conditions, I think pvc has its place (underground) at least with our native soils, and cast is best above ground for many reasons as well. But we dont live in a perfect world. I will take my time on whatever I install, I sleep like a baby at night, no matter who shoulders the permit


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

mssp said:


> I think it looks great. I cant tell in pics, is cast hanging from strut or angle iron?


8" cast supported from strutt trapezed off the I beams with 1/2" beam clamps, I always hang from top of red iron


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> Good looking work there. New construction situations have many advantages over retrofit work in the areas of neatness.


I worked long and hard to get an open canvas like that, so laugh it up. I've fixed more leaks than I can count without complain, this is where its got me. Im 5'9" had more than my fair share of confined space work, fixin things I didn't install. My ability got me that job, not my mouth.


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

Redwood said:


> Looks good plumberN8, kinda like plumbing at the factory before they put the machines in when a lift would still fit and reach where you needed to go...:laughing:


That is a state building, crime lab FYI, if I ****ed up the biggest pipe on the job it would be covered tomorrow, I was running over track pissin off every been there was, go ahead and laugh it up rush limbo, when was the last time you had a job gettin paid for by you'r own tax money. No leaks on the cast what so ever btw. I'm not fast (already stated) but when it was filled once and passed in the same day not just my boss and the owner were impressed. What's faster?

Dont understand the division between a residential and commercial plumber

I AM A PLUMBER. 
Ill snake drains and unclog pipe just as diligently as I install domestic water mains hydronic heating systems, waste lines all the way down to fixing your grandma's garden hose just to help the elderly, it's all plumbing to me. I live and breath the upkeep and integrity that is the most basic foundation for the health of our rotting nation.


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

Redwood said:


> Looks good plumberN8, kinda like plumbing at the factory before they put the machines in when a lift would still fit and reach where you needed to go...:laughing:


Those storm drains will never move, they are the building, I doubt anyone will ever have to change them unless there is a serious structural remodel, they were high and tight, biggest pipe goes in first. I am well aware everything I install will be removed one day, but I don't count on it being hidden from thought once I say "insulate it" every thing I put in is a representation of myself, I know I have installed pipe that will outlast me. On the other hand, I have taken great care to do things the way I see fit to come back a year or three later to see it demo right back to pizza shack, it's not gonna make me care any less or cut any corner. I don't leave anything unless I feel confident in in, weather it was bid correctly or not. Best part of being a free agent, I can do what I want and go where I want, no one gets rich working for anyone but themselves. I may work under the big guys but the pay is better, safety is priority, and best of all I don't have to cut corners to ensure my boss makes a buck


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

Redwood said:


> Looks good plumberN8, kinda like plumbing at the factory before they put the machines in when a lift would still fit and reach where you needed to go...:laughing:


I'll get some pictures of the med gas above the lab's where the storm drains run above tomorrow. Has anyone used swagelok pipe here yet? Honestly it's one of the most awesome things I have yet to install. Haven't seen it tested yet so maybe I should hold my breath


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberN8 said:


> I'll get some pictures of the med gas above the lab's where the storm drains run above tomorrow. Has anyone used swagelok pipe here yet? Honestly it's one of the most awesome things I have yet to install. Haven't seen it tested yet so maybe I should hold my breath


Nice... Yea I've done some swagelok work...
Hard not to in an industrial plant...
Nice clean bends and it looks great...


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plumberN8 said:


> I'll get some pictures of the med gas above the lab's where the storm drains run above tomorrow. Has anyone used swagelok pipe here yet? Honestly it's one of the most awesome things I have yet to install. Haven't seen it tested yet so maybe I should hold my breath


 what are you using swadgelok on?


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

plumberN8 said:


> They are made by snappitz.com insulated pipe supports, check them out, way better than regular calcium blocks. I've used them in every size you can imagine, they will make what you need, just takes a minute to look ahead, they make what you order, not the fastest to get, but my favorite to install. If you run low just use the tops and have the insulators cover the rest


N8
Those hangers are very impressive (I contacted the manufacturer for pricing etc). However, where thermal insulation is not a requirement (as in roof drainage), my point was that the Holdrite hanger would give excellent acoustical protection with less cost in both labor and material.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

plumberN8 said:


> Sadly I learned on plastic, I've found that there is still a market willing to pay for quality, I perfer to use ridgid material, so that's the work I seek. The PEX, csst and any spaghetti stile pipe all have their own tricks. I'd like to think I make them all look decent, wouldn't put anything but Cu in my home for domestic water though, for many reasons. Copper is by far the best water pipe I've seen as far as local conditions, I think pvc has its place (underground) at least with our native soils, and cast is best above ground for many reasons as well. But we dont live in a perfect world. I will take my time on whatever I install, I sleep like a baby at night, no matter who shoulders the permit


My point was not of to criticize your work, but rather to point out the esthetic limitations of some of the materials at our disposal.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

You using swagelock on med gas?


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

Plumbus said:


> Those isolators you're using with the clevis hangers look nice. A cheaper, faster alternative I use are insulated j hangers made by Holdrite. We haven't tried them on anything larger than 4", but they are stout enough to handle any load we've placed on them so far.
> http://holdrite.com/products/cpvc-supports/silencer-cpvc/holdrite-silencer-hangers/


 Those would work great except we usually have to have the insulation pass through the hanger full diameter. You can't bury the hanger in other words. 
We have been getting "Snap Itz" approved for shields on some projects but I've found it takes as long or longer to get those as the regular Calcium Shields we usually use. In my area anyways. Maybe quicker elsewhere?


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## plumberN8 (Apr 19, 2015)

rwh said:


> You using swagelock on med gas?


It's not really med gas, sorry, it is a crime lab, the helium and hydrogen are swagelok pipe and fittings, the compressed airs and nitrogen lines are refrigeration Cu installed clean like medgas. I'd love to see some installs or hear any opinions on this stuff, it still hasn't seen a test yet. The only things I've really heard are from the manufacturers rep, and of course he's gonna say it's the best ever, but I do like their pitch and it seems to install nicely


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

plumberN8 said:


> It's not really med gas, sorry, it is a crime lab, the helium and hydrogen are swagelok pipe and fittings, the compressed airs and nitrogen lines are refrigeration Cu installed clean like medgas. I'd love to see some installs or hear any opinions on this stuff, it still hasn't seen a test yet. The only things I've really heard are from the manufacturers rep, and of course he's gonna say it's the best ever, but I do like their pitch and it seems to install nicely


It's very good and strong stuff, you better know how to use a bender or you will have a pile of tubing. I've used it on pneumatic air lines up to 5,000 psi, most recently I've seen it on gas lines for a CNG project for filling trash trucks.


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## oldgofaster (Jun 12, 2015)

Very nice work. You should be proud.


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