# Slab leak detection equip



## kenb

I have always used geo phones and air to find slab leaks, But know i own a company and was able to buy the goldak locator and 33oo transmitter for locating these lines out and the 777a leak mic does any one know where i can get so me advice on locating and working this stuff I just am not used to it?


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## plumbpro

post an introduction and you will get better responses


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## Redwood

I like these...

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/dynamic-stereo-headphones-high-sound-quality_500319










An intro would be cool...:whistling2:


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## Unitedleak

*Water leak detection under slab*

Well, the good news is that many people are able to use the equipment you bought and find lots of leaks. The bad news is that is leak detection were that easy, leak detection companies would be out of business. Perfect practice, of course, makes perfect. Listen carefully, and Good Luck. We are a leak detection company in Indiana, and have worked with a number of plumbers who have bouth their own equipment only to continue calling. In fact, I just had a plumber give me some of his equipment after he could not get it to work for him, and his quote was, "Here, maybe you can get this s**t to work." Luckily, I can. Check us out


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## rocksteady

Wow, a two-fer! 









Paul


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## Unitedleak

*Lousy leak detection equipment*

Yeah, well the stuff he bought was lousy, but it works if you're careful enough with it. I would almost rather use witching sticks. Just Kidding (No, but seriously...) Do many of the plumbers in here have a lot of trouble with leak detection? I post and advise and blog telling people that leak detection companies will get them usually within a few inches and should always be within a foot. Is this the exception rather than the rule? What experience do you have with leak deteciton companies? Do they often miss? Come back out if they do? Refund money if they are off? I am in fact one of them, and have been reading horror stories in here. Thanks,


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## Ron

Unitedleak said:


> Yeah, well the stuff he bought was lousy, but it works if you're careful enough with it. I would almost rather use witching sticks. Just Kidding (No, but seriously...) Do many of the plumbers in here have a lot of trouble with leak detection? I post and advise and blog telling people that leak detection companies will get them usually within a few inches and should always be within a foot. Is this the exception rather than the rule? What experience do you have with leak deteciton companies? Do they often miss? Come back out if they do? Refund money if they are off? I am in fact one of them, and have been reading horror stories in here. Thanks,



Are you even a plumber, IMO leak detection companies are not classified in the plumber trades.


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## rocksteady

Unitedleak said:


> Yeah, well the stuff he bought was lousy, but it works if you're careful enough with it. I would almost rather use witching sticks. Just Kidding (No, but seriously...) Do many of the plumbers in here have a lot of trouble with leak detection? I post and advise and blog telling people that leak detection companies will get them usually within a few inches and should always be within a foot. Is this the exception rather than the rule? What experience do you have with leak deteciton companies? Do they often miss? Come back out if they do? Refund money if they are off? I am in fact one of them, and have been reading horror stories in here. Thanks,


 
I am usually pretty accurate doing leak detections myself. I have used leak detection companies and to be honest, they have a much worse record than I do. They don't refund money. They will come back out but not for free. In my experience, it's a lousy racket. I'd say I've had some negative experiences with them. :whistling2:





Paul


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## Protech

Dunno, couldn't tell ya. I find my own leaks. Fisher XLT and ridgid navitrack



Unitedleak said:


> Yeah, well the stuff he bought was lousy, but it works if you're careful enough with it. I would almost rather use witching sticks. Just Kidding (No, but seriously...) Do many of the plumbers in here have a lot of trouble with leak detection? I post and advise and blog telling people that leak detection companies will get them usually within a few inches and should always be within a foot. Is this the exception rather than the rule? What experience do you have with leak deteciton companies? Do they often miss? Come back out if they do? Refund money if they are off? I am in fact one of them, and have been reading horror stories in here. Thanks,


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## Unitedleak

*Plumbing Professionals, right?*

This is for plumbing professionals, right? I certainly think as does my insurance company, that water and plumbing leak detection is a plumbing profession. How are you, Ron? IMO or IMAO?


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## Ron

Unitedleak said:


> This is for plumbing professionals, right? I certainly think as does my insurance company, that water and plumbing leak detection is a plumbing profession. How are you, Ron? IMO or IMAO?


Post your link in your signature. Like I said I don't see it that way.

Just IMO


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## Unitedleak

*Plumbing Leak Detection Equipment*

Thanks for both heads' ups. We are a plumbing services company according to just about everybody. Further, I hope to add to the conversation when I have something to say, and shut my mouth regarding things beyond my expertise. I work hard to tell the difference. A couple of questions regarding fire suppression layouts are interesting, but way beyond my knowledge base. Any info on finding a water leak? I can help with that. Water mains, water audits, concrete leak detection, fire suppression leak detection, slabs, water conservation, water meter service maintenace and repair. All of these should qualify me to take part in several conversations around here. Should you re-pipe, epoxy coat or spot repair? How about insurance coverage? Depends on your company. I think I add something, and that ought to be what we are about here. Thanks,


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## plbgbiz

John J. is it? God help the world, there's two of us. :laughing:

I have had good success with a local detection service. He is spot on accurate, fair with his price and does not offer any repair services at all. He is not a plumber but is integral to the plumbing business. I have test driven a couple of different systems and although the technology is awesome, there is a steep learning curve.

I would love to have my guys well versed in leak detection but I am not willing to put my reputation on the line while attending the school of hard knocks in a customer's home. Now if there were an effective training program offered by manufacturers, I would swiftly reevaluate my stance.

Mr. John J., your sight has leak detection and hot water repair listed. Do you make repairs? What is your background? How did you get into leak detection?


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## Unitedleak

Actually, John Johnson, my name is last name is Jensen, and I have family in OKC. First, let me say that we have never, and will never steal a job. We work with many plumbers and I am sure that they would find someone else if we stole jobs. That is bad for business, and all you really have is your reputation. The frequency with which that seems to happen is shocking to me. I simply had no idea... That said, for residential work, several insurance companies call us to GC slab leak repair jobs. We have a network of plumbers, many of whom call us for leak detection, who are more than willing to come in and save the day get paid and get gone. My background is as a construction manager and service manager. I love to get my hands dirty, and leave people with enough information that they can make good choices and know all of their options. I work hard to help people understand their options when they have a serious leak issue. I am irritated when I hear that someone thinks that "re-routes are the best way to go" for any situation. In the Midwest, re-routes can be great in 2 story homes , in the warmer climates, they may be good all the time. On the other hand, if homeowner's insurance pays for the spot leak repair, why would you choose to go another route? Only a couple of the largest companies won't cover most of the slab leak spot repair cost. There is a place for epoxy, re-routes, running new lines and spot repair. It is important in this business to know about shark bites, which I don't mind if you're cautious, and the use of silver solder vs all the other kinds, different kinds of crimps with PEX and use of PEX and copper sub-slab. I find that many people get stuck in a rut and think that one solution fits all, but I disagree almost all of the time. I try and help people make informed decisions and get their homes back together quickly and without the anxiety that so many people try to use during their hard up-sell for more work than a homeowner needs. We do other things for commercial, municipal, industrial and community applications. Knowledge is power, pass it on.


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## plbgbiz

In some ways we agree. But in others you're approaching a line you shouldn't cross.

I am a big supporter of a person with training and expertise in a special skill. Your skill is finding the leak. As plumbers, our skill is to determine what to do with it. I mean this next with all due respect to your unique skills that I do not necessarily posses...Neither you, the insurance company, nor the home owner are qualified to weigh in on what to do with a leak once you find it. That is a decision for plumbers.

I do look forward to discussions with you regarding finding leaks. I find it to be both interesting and critical to our trade.

I'll save space and allow someone else to chime in on your repair solution opinions.


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## Unitedleak

I simply want homeowners to have a complete information set and to know what questions to ask. I don't have a vested interest in any of the repair solutions, but people need to know that there is rarely only one repair option. There are many repair solutions, they need to hear from their plumber why one is best and the others are not.


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## Epox

I'm in New Mexico. Most homes round here are slab with poly, copper, pex, galvanized. While I'm not expert at all on finding under slab leaks, I find it necceary to find leaking line, verify the leak is under slab, then locate opposite end of loop. Pull and replace. ( Or or whatever I have to do if it does not pull). I have busted down if I knew for a fact where the leak is. I dont push repipes unless I have seen or performed 3 or 4 other leak repairs there. I have found most customers won't allow repipes until thiere home has been flooded 2 or 3 times. Some hold out longer still. It's thiere decision. I'm cool either way.


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## Unitedleak

That is all anyone can hope for. Work with a plumber who presents all of the options but has an opinion. Tell them what they CAN do and then recommend what they should do. The choice is still theirs. And often, they respect you enough to do what you recommend, and when it works out, you've a customer for life by being upfront and not pushing the big $$$ repair if they don't need it.


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## SewerRatz

I have a feeling the first post here was just a set up post for Unitedleak to post here and spam his link.


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## kenb

*No this was not spam I started this, I own a company in DFW*

Thanks for all the feedback guys this is a important part of owning a business is having someone that does leak detection when I first started this post I was using geo phones and air most of the time and located for all my guys myself unless I was unsure then I called a leak company only after finding out they where taking my jobs so I invested some money in some new equip. And was lost when I got it but after Playing around with it it is not rocket science as I thought that is why I was asking for help goldak has some really good stuff not as high as fisher but very good I believe it is the easiest I think there is on the market to learn to use get a line locator the 3300 and the 777a that will take care of most of the leaks but I am still open for any education anyone has on this. Thanks guys


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## kenb

By the way it was asking for a introduction for me Kenb I am 30 years old I own a very successful plumbing repair company in Dallas we do flat rate plumbing and have our own apprentice program I am building need to get together and discuss issues we run into and I think we can all benifit from each other by the way my website is www.brownandsonsplumbingllc.com you can subscribe to our blog we try to post something every couple weeks , Thanks Ken Brown


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## kenb

Also plumbing license #M-37976 Texas


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## Unitedleak

*Leak Detection Equipment*



SewerRatz said:


> I have a feeling the first post here was just a set up post for Unitedleak to post here and spam his link.


 Don't you have 5 links in your signature? My first post was a simple response to a question regarding which I have great deal of experience. The question about leak detection equipment would not have been my first choice for a self-promotion topic. Any promotion or even talking about my company has occurred as a direct response to contributors with no fewer than 1,200 comments. Yes, I have been masquerading as all of these people for years so that I could un-mask myself the other night. On a banal question about detection equipment. I am a little surprised by the sarcasm and hostility shown by a couple of common contributors. I thought quality plumbers were supposed to be a but more confident, making comments above reproach because they are experts and say expert things. The only people I have disparaged are the ones who do a crappy job, mislead customers, and try to hard sell to make an extra buck they should not earning. As long as you are none of those things, I am sure we will get along just fine. btw, Thanks Ken Your site looks pretty good.


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## ASUPERTECH

Unitedleak said:


> Yeah, well the stuff he bought was lousy, but it works if you're careful enough with it. I would almost rather use witching sticks. Just Kidding (No, but seriously...) Do many of the plumbers in here have a lot of trouble with leak detection? I post and advise and blog telling people that leak detection companies will get them usually within a few inches and should always be within a foot. Is this the exception rather than the rule? What experience do you have with leak deteciton companies? Do they often miss? Come back out if they do? Refund money if they are off? I am in fact one of them, and have been reading horror stories in here. Thanks,


I have most of my own equipment, but rarely use, found that I make more money subbing you out which leaves me more time to sell a repipe with the costomer over a cup of coffee while standing out at the end of the driveway waiting for you to shout eureka!!!:thumbsup:


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## plbgbiz

Unitedleak said:


> ...The only people I have disparaged are the ones who do a crappy job, mislead customers, and try to hard sell to make an extra buck they should not earning....


I think you MIGHT be missing the point of some member not embracing you with warm and fuzziness. I don't know any way to point this out without being very direct so don't get offended or take it personal.

You have entered a room full of people that spent years learning a trade just so they could take a test to see if MAYBE they had the right to practice it. If you are not a licensed Plumbing Contractor (or your state's equivalent) you have no business second guessing a plumber's recommended solution to us or to his client. To him directly maybe, but that's it, and only if your intent is to gain an understanding of the recommendation. I get the impression from your posts you believe you know better or at least as much as the plumbers on the job when it comes to recommended solutions. Again with all due respect, no you don't. You have now put yourself in the category that I place home inspectors. You have a measure of skill and expertise to identify and locate a specific type of plumbing problem. You need to then leave it to licensed Plumbing Contractors and their licensed Journeyman Plumbers to determine what to do about it.



Unitedleak said:


> ...but people need to know that there is rarely only one repair option.....


Again, you display your lack of training as a plumbing professional. Very seldom is there more than one BEST solution. And that best solution MUST be a balance of what is best for the client and the company providing said solution.

I have already made it clear that for now I am content to leave slab leak detection to those that know what they are doing. I suggest you sir do the same when you clearly don't know what you are doing.


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## stillaround

Ive gotten better with the gen-ear....still run across one once and a while thats not worth my time. The copper manifolds resonate in the slab as the air bubbles pass thru ...and if its carpeting all over that pointed probe makes me less comfortable...

the last one I passed off took the Amer lk detection guy 7 hours and he was off 2 feet...made me feel better. Some of em are tough and the Am lk guy is pretty darn good. But I need the money so I do them.
Also, re-routes are always a consideration for me..


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## Unitedleak

plbgbiz, actually, my concern is that true professsionals like yourselves, and surely like the majority of the posters here, assume that all plumbers are doing as good a job as you are. As I am sure you know, some are, some are not. I wish that all plumbers were giving advice with the customer in mind. As you can tell, and I have seen from many posts in this exact forum "professional plumbing contractors" haev made all sorts of truly poor decisions. I have, as I am sure you have seen certified plumbers try to get away with all sorts of things. Perhaps the salesman making the sale is only looking out for the most expensive option. Clearly you do a great job, and think that all other plumbers do the same. I wish they did, but realize that reality often is found to be more about $$$. Sorry, but saving it and making more of it often drive certifed plumbers decisions. Sad but true. also, a lot of the time for many of the largest companies, the "certified plumber" making the recommendations is in fact a salesman who may or may not be an actual plumber. This person neither knows nor cares about the "right choice" but rather about making quotas for bonuses. I venture that these companies account for 20-30% of the plumbing in some cities. Choices not made by certified plumbers, but by salesmen working for plumbing companies. I doubt many of them care enouh about it to contribute here, though.


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## Unitedleak

Today I had 2 calls where the copper plumbing had been tied to iron rebar when the house was built. The homeowners live in the same neighborhood, and "certified plumbers" did or were required to oversee the work. Whether there was actually a plumber on sight while the work was done? Who knows. Last Thursday, I saw a water heater installed by a plumber without dilectric unions. Still had the sticker of the installing company on it (big sticker, big company). My faviorite last week, was the guy who I don't know if he was a plumber or not (not really my call) who called for a leak detection and had already made 2 holes in the wrong places, and was just trying to get away from the job. I had a job a month ago where the new service line was run about 12 inches deep (much more shallow than code calls for in Indiana, by a plumber who I thought knew better. Or the cute old lady called today, fixed income, sounds like a service line leak, insurance will cover the spot repair. The certified plumber she called out (again big company) will only run a new line (no coverage) and she cant afford that so she wants to know if we can help her find the leak and if she should run a new line or not... Never had a problem before, she doesnt live in an area that tends to have these problems. tough call. Was she actually talking to a plumber? I have no idea. They have a certification number... I have the oppportunity to see all sort of stuff out there as I am sure you do as well, and like I said I only wish it were all so straight forward. Anytime you get a call for a second opinion nand provide an alternative solution, there is a discrepancy about what is "right". When we get a call, we don't check for a plumbers license. perhaps that would help...


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## Ron

Unitedleak said:


> I have seen from many posts in this exact forum "professional plumbing contractors" haev made all sorts of truly poor decisions.


Please do share with us who on here that is making these poor decisions.

You care you show these quotes?

This should be good.


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## SewerRatz

Unitedleak said:


> Don't you have 5 links in your signature? My first post was a simple response to a question regarding which I have great deal of experience. The question about leak detection equipment would not have been my first choice for a self-promotion topic. Any promotion or even talking about my company has occurred as a direct response to contributors with no fewer than 1,200 comments. Yes, I have been masquerading as all of these people for years so that I could un-mask myself the other night. On a banal question about detection equipment. I am a little surprised by the sarcasm and hostility shown by a couple of common contributors. I thought quality plumbers were supposed to be a but more confident, making comments above reproach because they are experts and say expert things. The only people I have disparaged are the ones who do a crappy job, mislead customers, and try to hard sell to make an extra buck they should not earning. As long as you are none of those things, I am sure we will get along just fine. btw, Thanks Ken Your site looks pretty good.


 
Hey buddy, I been on Forums for a very long time, and till this day I always suspect a first time poster getting a response from another first time poster is usually a couple guys at the same company setting up a Q&A type post so they can link spam their company. It happens more often than you think. Yes there might be where it is a coincidence, but I do not believe in Coincidence at all.

As for my links in my signature and the other plumbers, I will guarantee you we did not put our links in our signatures or post when we first joined. I put my links in after I made well over 100 posts. With my first post in the Introduction section. Not jumping into a thread where some guy that made his first post asked a question about a product or service I provide.

So excuse me for being suspicious. In the world wide web there is tons of people think "Hey I got a great idea! Let me find a way I can get my link out there!" If you posted an Intro right off and responded to a few other posts a red flag would not of popped up in my mind.

Its nice to see you making lots of new friends on this forum.


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## SewerRatz

Oh one more point my Grandfather, Father and myself have been finding leaks with in inches of the actual leak for over 50+ years combined. We do many spot repairs.

Also you said you seen a water heater with out dielectric unions. You sound like a home inspector that gigged me once for not putting in dielectric unions. I had him and the city plumbing inspector show up at the house in question. The city plumbing inspector asked the home inspector what is wrong with the heater install. He stated the lack of dielectric unions. Then the plumbing inspector asked him for his plumbing license, which the home inspector said he is not a plumber. Then the plumbing inspector told him to leave plumbing inspections to a licensed plumber. Then proceeded to show this home inspector in our state code where it says when joining different metals dialectic unions are to be used or a brass transition fitting. I used brass unions on that heater install.

You talk about how plumbers do not do things in the best interest of the customers. Have a look at my company's BBB rating A+ Then have a look at United Leak Detection BBB rating F So before you come around a plumbing forum for Plumbing Professionals and knocking them, you best have a look at your self.


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## plumbpro

Our code calls for the same, or flex connectors that are dielectric.


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## plbgbiz

Unitedleak said:


> Today I had 2 calls where the copper plumbing had been tied to iron rebar when the house was built. The homeowners live in the same neighborhood, and "certified plumbers" did or were required to oversee the work. Whether there was actually a plumber on sight while the work was done? Who knows. Last Thursday, I saw a water heater installed by a plumber without dilectric unions. Still had the sticker of the installing company on it (big sticker, big company). My faviorite last week, was the guy who I don't know if he was a plumber or not (not really my call) who called for a leak detection and had already made 2 holes in the wrong places, and was just trying to get away from the job. I had a job a month ago where the new service line was run about 12 inches deep (much more shallow than code calls for in Indiana, by a plumber who I thought knew better. Or the cute old lady called today, fixed income, sounds like a service line leak, insurance will cover the spot repair. The certified plumber she called out (again big company) will only run a new line (no coverage) and she cant afford that so she wants to know if we can help her find the leak and if she should run a new line or not... Never had a problem before, she doesnt live in an area that tends to have these problems. tough call. Was she actually talking to a plumber? I have no idea. They have a certification number... I have the oppportunity to see all sort of stuff out there as I am sure you do as well, and like I said I only wish it were all so straight forward. Anytime you get a call for a second opinion nand provide an alternative solution, there is a discrepancy about what is "right". When we get a call, we don't check for a plumbers license. perhaps that would help...


You still don't get it...You are not a plumber. You don't know about plumbing. You have not been tested on plumbing. You do not have plumbing credentials. You do not work under the supervision of a plumber. Therefore, any armchair quarterbacking you proceed with will be met with a less than favorable response. After trying to get you to focus on the area of leak detection you claim to know, you have responded by further weighing in on matters you have not been trained in. If this keeps up the mods may put an end to your use of a plumbers forum to bash plumbers. I think the next time I see some electrical work that seems unfit, I'll call a roofer for a second opinion. After all, they have to work around a lot of wires and meter risers. They'll know a faulty job when they see one and be able to recommend the right electrical solution.

We do have plenty of conversations in this forum about the areas of our industry that need improvement. You have no voice in those conversations since you are not a plumber. We will gripe, cuss, scream, bite, fight, scratch, kick, insult, abuse, harass, type in all caps, bad mouth, and steal from each other. Consider it sibling rivalry, and you are not related.

Too bad you're not an apprentice. You're one of the fastest hole diggers I've seen in a long time.

I'm leaving before the hamster shows up...he scares me.:laughing:


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## Redwood

Unitedleak said:


> Last Thursday, I saw a water heater installed by a plumber without dilectric unions. Still had the sticker of the installing company on it (big sticker, big company).


I don't use dielectric unions... :blink:

They are worthless! Any good plumber knows that! :whistling2:

BBB "F" Rating? Ouch... Zing... That Hurt....:laughing:


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## Ron

Unitedleak

Do be careful on how you respond, don't dig the grave to deep, don't want you to fall in and not be able to get out of it.


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## Redwood

Ron said:


> Unitedleak
> 
> Do be careful on how you respond, don't dig the grave to deep, don't want you to fall in and not be able to get out of it.


Ummm Ron just a guess but he's already about 12' deep where is he digging to? :laughing:


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## Ron

Redwood said:


> Ummm Ron just a guess but he's already about 12' deep where is he digging to? :laughing:


Thats where the leak is at. He is good at what he does, No plumber needed. :laughing:


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## SlickRick

I agree that leak detection is not a " Plumbing Professional" If they want to share details on detection techniques that we could use, I would be happy to take advantage of them. What we are getting now is garbage. What next, meter readers? At least the fire sprinkler guy is contributing valuable info to our members. I say, wack Unitedleak.


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## Redwood

slickrick said:


> *I say, wack Unitedleak.*


I agree! :thumbup:


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## Unitedleak

Couple points and I'll be done:


I am only speaking for myself, and I think that vouching for all plumbing contrator companies and all of their employees (plumbers or not as you know) is dangerous.
Like I have said before, we don't do repairs, nor recommend the proper way to repair a problem. If a certified plumbing professional decides how to best do it, and the homeowner agrees, the repair gets done.
Plumbers are trusted by only 27% of people per here http://www.bbb.org/us/storage/0/Sha...ess Index - Executive Summary - Formatted.pdf Information can make this better, and people are looking for it from plumbers, and not getting it. Protech posted about a poor repair made by a competitor here: http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/leak-detection-location-101-a-3528/
Here http://www.plumbingzone.com/f4/convicted-plumber-9291/ many acknowledge that there are bad seeds, and people working on it. Perhaps great quality but hard to tell.
Not talking to homeowners appears to be a large part of the PR issue that plumbing seems to have (27% high or some trust fourth to the bottom of the list) I try to talk to people to help them understand what is happening, but it seems to be a minority who suggest this as a path. If I am the one talking to them, it is because the plumber has not.
and yes, I have 2 negative reviews on BBB. but a 5 star on Angies List... I should have had the correct address on BBB 2 years ago.
Have some more, fun guys. The msgs are funny, really. You dont think there are issues in plumbing and that I am the bad guy. Funny and sad, really. I would hope that you would like as much help and support from tradesmen as possible suggesting a quality certified plumber, but apparently you're all in the 27% and don't need that.


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## plumbpro

Unitedleak said:


> Couple points and I'll be done:
> 
> 
> I am only speaking for myself, and I think that vouching for all plumbing contrator companies and all of their employees (plumbers or not as you know) is dangerous.
> Like I have said before, we don't do repairs, nor recommend the proper way to repair a problem. If a certified plumbing professional decides how to best do it, and the homeowner agrees, the repair gets done.
> Plumbers are trusted by only 27% of people per here http://www.bbb.org/us/storage/0/Sha...ess Index - Executive Summary - Formatted.pdf Information can make this better, and people are looking for it from plumbers, and not getting it. Protech posted about a poor repair made by a competitor here: http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/leak-detection-location-101-a-3528/
> Here http://www.plumbingzone.com/f4/convicted-plumber-9291/ many acknowledge that there are bad seeds, and people working on it. Perhaps great quality but hard to tell.
> Not talking to homeowners appears to be a large part of the PR issue that plumbing seems to have (27% high or some trust fourth to the bottom of the list) I try to talk to people to help them understand what is happening, but it seems to be a minority who suggest this as a path. If I am the one talking to them, it is because the plumber has not.
> and yes, I have 2 negative reviews on BBB. but a 5 star on Angies List... I should have had the correct address on BBB 2 years ago.
> Have some more, fun guys. The msgs are funny, really. You dont think there are issues in plumbing and that I am the bad guy. Funny and sad, really. I would hope that you would like as much help and support from tradesmen as possible suggesting a quality certified plumber, but apparently you're all in the 27% and don't need that.


I for one hope I'm in the 27%, but not customer can be made happy by anyone. The posts you cited are not plumbers associated with this site. No one said that all plumbers every where care about quality work and their customers happiness. 
I joined this site because I strive for excellence in the plumbing trade and want to learn all I can from others experiences. I can't speak for everyone here, but I believe that this is the general consensus. I/we as plumbers make mistakes, but hopefully we learn from them and make them right. I think the general beef with you personally is that you are not a plumbing professional and came here to tell us how to be a plumbing professional. I don't believe there are licensing requirements for leak detection and do not consider it a trade. My opinion only and this does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Plumbing Zone or my fellow plumbers.


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## plbgbiz

Unitedleak said:


> ...You dont think there are issues in plumbing and that I am the bad guy...


Since I am a self admitted arrogant know-it-all plumber, I find it quite impossible to be characterized by this comment without responding. Please note what was written above:


plbgbiz said:


> _*...We do have plenty of conversations in this forum about the areas of our industry that need improvement. You have no voice in those conversations since you are not a plumber...*_



Let's make a deal. First of all I promise not to chime in and offer my opinion on your industry in the Professional Leak Detector's Forum. Now, what do you suppose your side of the bargain should be?:whistling2:


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## SlickRick

We may be in the 27% here. We respect our trade enough to take the time be on a forum that is dedicated to the plumbing profession. To be honest, several of us think that you are using this forum as a subtle approach to promote your locating business.


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## plbgbiz

slickrick said:


> ...To be honest, several of us think that you are using this forum as a subtle approach to promote your locating business...


I am all about success in bizness. Hence the user name I have chosen. I hope for the sake of your leak locating business, plumbers in your area are not members of the PZ. You have not presented yourself as an assistant to them, but rather as a boy scout trying to make yourself look good by bringing others down.


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## plbgbiz

Disregard my last comment. When I Google "leak detector forum" the number one generic result is for the "PLUMBING" Zone. :tt2:


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## SewerRatz

Unitedleak said:


> Couple points and I'll be done:
> 
> 6. and yes, I have 2 negative reviews on BBB. but a 5 star on Angies List... I should have had the correct address on BBB 2 years ago.


I for one know that the BBB will attempt to mail you any complaints, and if they do not get a response, they will call you to inform you there is a complaint about your company and you should respond. Here is one other fun fact about the BBB, you do not, let me repeat this for you, YOU DO NOT get an F rating for just two complaints in the last 36 months. There had to be many other complaints that has fallen of your report that are more than 36 months old, and many other issues for them to give you an F rating.


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## Redwood

Unitedleak said:


> Couple points and I'll be done:


You were done along time ago IMHO....

When you stated that you are called on a job to locate by a plumber then you state that you start advising the customer how to repair the leak....

*Your customer was the plumber that called you in on the job and that is who you report to period!

If you did that on one of my jobs rest assured it would be your last!*

It's obvious that you have a diarrhea of the mouth & constipation of the brain problem as you continue your rant against plumbers stating how much bad work you have seen and how it was done by "Certified" plumbers then you continue your rant about "Certified" plumbers from a large company and finally you conclude with you don't check their credentials.:whistling2:

The word is "Licensed" plumber and we go to school and serve an apprenticeship followed with a test to obtain that "License" Our industry is under fire by many states where they had done away with Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master Plumber creating a licensed contractor that runs the business and unlicensed, untrained employees working under him. Other states have a licensed Master Plumber with employees working under him which is similar but at least the business owner is a plumber. Still other states may have the Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master Plumber but they also have no license for drain cleaning and *Large Companies* push their drain cleaners into doing plumbing work which they often get away with because of lax enforcement. Even worse is CraigsList with loads of unlicensed hacks, and side jobbers who may be plumbers but on weekends and evenings go out and perform work without insurance getting away with it from lax enforcement.

Yes you need to start checking license credentials before you come here and badmouth us!:furious:

If I was in Indiana plumbing and needed to locate a leak you can be sure that I would rather dig with a teaspoon and try to find it before I ever called United Leak Detection of Indiana.

Have a nice day!


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## SewerRatz

Redwood, that is what I like about Chicago and Crook... err I mean Cook County. They require all plumbers to have a State or City of Chicago Plumbing license, and then require all plumbing companies to have a City of Chicago Plumbing Contractors License to ensure the company has its bonds and insurance in order. 

As for Drain cleaning, Chicago and Cook County require you to have a City Sewer and Drain Layers License. In Chicago you need to get a permit to power rod a main. Cook County.


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## Pipe Rat

*BBB Rating *

Back to Top 

Based on BBB files, this business has a BBB Rating of F on a scale from A+ to F. Reasons for this F rating include: 

BBB does not have sufficient information to determine how long this business has been operating
*Failure to respond to 2 complaints filed against business*
BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business
It appears he has an F rating for failing to respond to 2 complaints.


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## plbgbiz

Redwood said:


> You were done along time ago IMHO....


Congrats United! You have done the impossible. You have possibly found the one thing that rocksteady, protech, plbgbiz, slickrick, redwood, seweratz, plumbpro, and ron
can all agree on. You are truly quite the diplomat. :thumbup:


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## SewerRatz

Pipe Rat said:


> *BBB Rating *
> 
> Back to Top
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on BBB files, this business has a BBB Rating of F on a scale from A+ to F. Reasons for this F rating include:
> 
> BBB does not have sufficient information to determine how long this business has been operating
> *Failure to respond to 2 complaints filed against business*
> BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business
> It appears he has an F rating for failing to respond to 2 complaints.


The F rating is not just for the failing to respond. There are other factors. They have a rating system that goes from A+ to F with 3 grades for A, B C and D making a total of 13 possible grades in their rating system. Just two failed responses is not enough to take you straight to an F. There is other items taken into the factor. For example the ability of getting a hold of the owner or officers of the company in question. Licensing of the company, be it a plumbing, electrician, and or a business license for the city you operate in. If you look around on the BBB site they will show you how they figure out the scale.

So as I said he did not get a F rating for just two failed responses to complaints, there is other factors involved.

*BBB RATINGS SYSTEM*

*I. Introduction*

The BBB rating is a grade based on a proprietary formula that uses information known to BBB and incorporates BBB experience with the business. The formula evaluates numerous categories of information, and reflects BBB weightings as to the relative importance of each category. This rating represents BBB's degree of confidence the business is operating in a trustworthy manner and will make a good faith effort to resolve any customer concerns filled with BBB.
*II. Overview of ratings system elements*

Businesses are rated on 17 elements.
This chart shows the maximum number of points that can be awarded or deducted for each element. Please note there are some elements where businesses can only lose points, and for those elements "0" is indicated as the maximum number of points that can be awarded.
*Element*
*Range of points that can be awarded or deducted (maximum to minimum)*

1. Type of Business 0 to -41

2. Time in Business 8 to -10

3. Competency Licensing 0 to -41

4. Complaint Volume 20 to 2

5. Unanswered Complaints 20 to -21

6. Unresolved Complaints 10 to 1

7. Serious Complaints 15 to 0

8. Complaint Analysis 8 to -12

9. Complaint Resolution Delayed 0 to -5

10. Failure to Address Complaint Pattern 0 to -5

11. Government Action 0 to -30

12. Advertising Review 0 to -41

13. Background Information 5 to 0

14. Clear understanding of business 0 to -5

15. Mediation/arbitration 0 to -41

16. Accredited Business status 4 to 0

17. Revocation 0 to -10 

Maximum Available Points 90


*III. Overview of grading*

Grades are determined by awarding and deducting points for each element and then looking at the resulting score as a percentage of the highest score attainable ("perfect" score). All ratings are expressed as a percentage of the "perfect" score of 90 points.
For example, scoring 90 out of 90 points = 100%. Scoring 88 out of 90 points = 97.77%. Scoring 80 out of 90 points = 88.88%.
The ratings system uses grades from A to F, with plusses and minuses. A+ is the highest grade, and F is the lowest.
This chart shows the grades that are assigned based on the percentage of the "perfect" score:
*PERCENTAGE FROM **PERCENTAGE TO **RATING SYSTEM GRADE*

97.00 100.00 A+

94.00 96.99 A

90.00 93.99 A-

87.00 89.99 B+

84.00 86.99 B

80.00 83.99 B-

77.00 79.99 C+

74.00 76.99 C

70.00 73.99 C-

67.00 69.99 D+

64.00 66.99 D

60.00 63.99 D-

0.00 59.99 F


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