# High Eff oil fired



## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

My friend has put an offer on a house with a basement bedroom. The heating system is oil fired Hydronic. I told him he really should think about not having that as a bedroom. He wants to build a work shop in the 2 car garage and add Heat. I know gas heat but oil I know not so much. lol Is there good way of making the basement bedroom safe. lol The only thing I can think of is putting the heater in the garage to keep it out of the living space. Would like to give n option or 2. Thank you very much.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

patrick88 said:


> My friend has put an offer on a house with a basement bedroom. The heating system is oil fired Hydronic. I told him he really should think about not having that as a bedroom. He wants to build a work shop in the 2 car garage and add Heat. I know gas heat but oil I know not so much. lol Is there good way of making the basement bedroom safe. lol The only thing I can think of is putting the heater in the garage to keep it out of the living space. Would like to give n option or 2. Thank you very much.


 In a bedroom up here is not code!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

patrick88 said:


> My friend has put an offer on a house with a basement bedroom. The heating system is oil fired Hydronic. I told him he really should think about not having that as a bedroom. He wants to build a work shop in the 2 car garage and add Heat. I know gas heat but oil I know not so much. lol Is there good way of making the basement bedroom safe. lol The only thing I can think of is putting the heater in the garage to keep it out of the living space. Would like to give n option or 2. Thank you very much.


Why are you afriad of oil?? They been around much longer than gas.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Two options

1. Furnace and no bedroom
2. No furnace and a bedroom


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

You are not even supposed to have registers in a garage if a car can be pulled in.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> You are not even supposed to have registers in a garage if a car can be pulled in.


If you can't pull a car in then it wouldn't be a garage


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Yes but people still think you can put registers in there.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Yes but people still think you can put registers in there.


There is two reasons that I am aware of

-fire separation 
- opening into the house envelope from CO


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I know you know...


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Why are you afriad of oil?? They been around much longer than gas.


Who said anything about being afraid of oil? I don't have an oil burner lic. So i don't mess with it. I would like to have him get a nice high eff hydronic heater with power vent and have the make up air pulled in from out side. 

I have told them not to use the basement as a bedroom, but they need the third bedroom so they will do it no matter what.

To clear up some. "In a bedroom up here is not code! " This house like many other houses advertise as 3 bedroom. Well the 3rd bedroom is in the basement. The garage will be converted to a workshop.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

patrick88 said:


> Who said anything about being afraid of oil? I don't have an oil burner lic. So i don't mess with it. I would like to have him get a nice high eff hydronic heater with power vent and have the make up air pulled in from out side.
> 
> I have told them not to use the basement as a bedroom, but they need the third bedroom so they will do it no matter what.
> 
> To clear up some. "In a bedroom up here is not code! " This house like many other houses advertise as 3 bedroom. Well the 3rd bedroom is in the basement. The garage will be converted to a workshop.


 Then advertise it as a 3 bedroom! Ya still cant put this high eff hydronic heater with powerventer in a ****ing bedroom! Not in my code book either!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

What high efficiency systems are you looking into?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

How is the garage and basement separated...or is it?


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Gettinit said:


> How is the garage and basement separated...or is it?



Door. It will be in another room. I want something that would atleast be a bit safer. I am not saying its a good idea somebody might stay down there but atleast if I could have a power make up air. atleast this thing would be sucking air from a living space.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

patrick88 said:


> Door. It will be in another room. I want something that would atleast be a bit safer. I am not saying its a good idea somebody might stay down there but atleast if I could have a power make up air. atleast this thing would be sucking air from a living space.


If you have 8' ceilings and its a two car garage you still need to pull in fresh air from outside to heat most any size home. Without doing the proper math you are at about 45,000 btu of available combustion air. 

If its going to stay out of the living space (bedroom) why the need for high efficiency anything?


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

would like something better than 85%.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

You can get 86% by adding a baffle to a Becket burner, supposedly.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Is the house set up for air or hydronics?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

If the garage is big enough build a mechanical room 5X2 . Its probably also on an outside wall! :thumbsup:


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

The house is already set up for hydronic. 
5x2 would be big enough? I would hate to have a problem with air flow.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

For a condensing boiler sure you could always pull air from outside just tell them its not a storage room!:laughing:


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

pilot light said:


> For a condensing boiler sure you could always pull air from outside just tell them its not a storage room!:laughing:



Ok so if a 5x2 room is big enough. I know right now the area with the heater is a room but no door right now. I would like to add out side air to this area. this way a door can be added so somebody can sleep down in the basement.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

patrick88 said:


> Ok so if a 5x2 room is big enough. I know right now the area with the heater is a room but no door right now. I would like to add out side air to this area. this way a door can be added so somebody can sleep down in the basement.


Am I missing something? I thought you said there was a door there to the room? The room may not be big enough...you have to meet the clearances of the particular boiler. I think he was just giving you a for instance. Outside air only needs to be added to the equipment room.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

let me recap. 
The heating system is now in the basement that has already been changed over to a third bed room. The garage is attached to the house. the garage has a door to it. the heating system is right now in a room in the living area of the basement. there is a door way but no door. I assume there is no door in this area because of air needed for the heater. If i close this with a door. I would assume i should add air to the heater room.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

patrick88 said:


> let me recap.
> The heating system is now in the basement that has already been changed over to a third bed room. The garage is attached to the house. the garage has a door to it. the heating system is right now in a room in the living area of the basement. there is a door way but no door. I assume there is no door in this area because of air needed for the heater. If i close this with a door. I would assume i should add air to the heater room.


 






Yes you will need a source of air for the combustion air. 

Also, I would strongly suggest a carbon monoxide detector. From what I have heard from my relatives in NYC, it's illegal to finish a basement for bedrooms if there is carbon monoxide producing equipment down in the basement. You'd better ask a local inspector in your area.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

You better get something that pulls in its own fresh air from a pipe or duct. That hole can get big quick. Here is a for instance if you just open up a hole in the exterior wall without ducting...Its about one square inch FREE space for every 4000 btu. Then there is a deduction based on the materials used. You may need to make it as much as 1/3 bigger to compensate.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

You should always use a fire damper on the fresh air intake where it enters the boiler room


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> You should always use a fire damper on the fresh air intake where it enters the boiler room
> 
> View attachment 18357


And a fusable link on the oil lines and a sensor over the burner and .....


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I dont know what the price of fuel oil is down there or the rebates for going high efficency gas but the price of oil is rising and the cost of gas seems stable with talk of a price reduction here. I think the fuel savings and any rebate would be the best solution and quicky payoff for the homeowner . Plus figure with oil future repair maintence cleaning etc. Takes me back to another thread I posted about oil burner mechanics not many out there anymore. There are some great european oilfired condensing out there none approved for use in North America. Like this one!


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Great. I have some good answers. My friend just got the verbal yes for the house. Looks like the papers will be signed by the end of the week. The home inspection with in ten days of the signing. I am looking to install a new heater by the end of aug. Lol thats the plan. I have not installed that many heaters. Sadly. Thats why so many dumd questions. 

The garage is attached to the house with just a door between it n the living space. The house is a raised ranch. I am thinking if I can move the heater to the garage that would give about the same or more make up air than its getting now. 
The garage will become my friends work shop. He makes props. Like from star trek and other sci fi shows, movies. Its a two car garage. I will be adding heat to it. He will be adding a blower unit of some sort for painting (small paint booth). There is a chimney that only has the oil burner attached now. he wants to go elec. Water heater. He feels oil will be to high. I advised tankless off the heater. He wont do it. my friends dad and sister have watched tomany holmes on homes. They wanted elec tankless every place. Once all this starts moving I will take lots of pics to post. Thank you all for giving great advise. Now I just need to size the house n see about getting the best brand for the money.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

patrick88 said:


> Great. I have some good answers. My friend just got the verbal yes for the house. Looks like the papers will be signed by the end of the week. The home inspection with in ten days of the signing. I am looking to install a new heater by the end of aug. Lol thats the plan. I have not installed that many heaters. Sadly. Thats why so many dumd questions.
> 
> The garage is attached to the house with just a door between it n the living space. The house is a raised ranch. I am thinking if I can move the heater to the garage that would give about the same or more make up air than its getting now.
> The garage will become my friends work shop. He makes props. Like from star trek and other sci fi shows, movies. Its a two car garage. I will be adding heat to it. He will be adding a blower unit of some sort for painting (small paint booth). There is a chimney that only has the oil burner attached now. he wants to go elec. Water heater. He feels oil will be to high. I advised tankless off the heater. He wont do it. my friends dad and sister have watched tomany holmes on homes. They wanted elec tankless every place. Once all this starts moving I will take lots of pics to post. Thank you all for giving great advise. Now I just need to size the house n see about getting the best brand for the money.


That doesn't mean it will be enough. You have never piped in a boiler?


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I have swapped out a few. Apples for apples. Did a couple up sizing also. I am confident in what I have done. Have sadly had help before. I have a few areas im unsure of. Sadly I did mostly service work. Burst water lines. Drains. Bathroom remodels. The company I worked for in springfield ma. Didnt like anybody going for heat jobs. I went out of my way to go after thing I wanted more skill with. I done well pumps. Nobody else would do them. The funny part of that company was. All these guys worked in an area with tons of towns with wells. I knew more about heating, wells and remodels than the master. This is fact. The guy would call me to help him.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Just stay the fuxk away from Bryant/ Dunkirk (Junkirk) boiler...


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Just stay the fuxk away from Bryant/ Dunkirk (Junkirk) boiler...


Bryan boilers are ok, though they only do commercial.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Bryan boilers are ok, though they only do commercial.


 Wrong, Bryant boiler are rebadged of those Junkirk boiler for homes..


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Wrong, Bryant boiler are rebadged of those Junkirk boiler for homes..


Bryan and Bryant are two different companies....maybe I spelled it wrong.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Here you go....


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Here you go....


 Got it... totally different breed... thanks


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I have been reviewing my friends heating needs. He was told by home inspecter the heating system will handle a modine heater. With out doing a proper sizing. I have told him I would like to do a sizing of the house. He says the Guy knows it will be fine cause he been doing inspections for 25 years.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

patrick88 said:


> I have been reviewing my friends heating needs. He was told by home inspecter the heating system will handle a modine heater. With out doing a proper sizing. I have told him I would like to do a sizing of the house. He says the Guy knows it will be fine cause he been doing inspections for 25 years.


 That may be true, back then, many unit were oversized and have the extra capicity. Yes, do the heat loss and best to stay away from those overhead heater unit.. not much heat transfer thru those coils at low temps with noisy fan behind it.. not good for clean workshop with dust blowing around.. best to have those standing cast iron radaitors seprate zone with own thermostat.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Yea I hope he wont need to upsize. The house was built in 96. Lol yet the inspecter also said its on its last legs cause its pushing 20 years. Now I'm all for out with the old in with the new, but really!! Why say just toss in a modine. They say the heater is about to fail.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

patrick88 said:


> Yea I hope he wont need to upsize. The house was built in 96. Lol yet the inspecter also said its on its last legs cause its pushing 20 years. Now I'm all for out with the old in with the new, but really!! Why say just toss in a modine. They say the heater is about to fail.


 What is it going to fail from?


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