# 2" Pressure Reducing Valve



## Doubletap (May 5, 2010)

Ok, I do almost exclusively drain cleaning and residential repair. But today I worked at a Burger King with almost 160 psi. The existing valve is a Watts 25AUB-Z3. The customer says "get me a quote on making it right". So I've got a couple questions.

1st- This 2" line runs very close to the wall. Can I remove the bell and screw off the valve. Disassemble the new one, screw it on, and replace the bell. 

2nd-Is there any other significant difference besides between installing a 2" vs a 3/4. Other than the size of the pipe wrench.

3rd- I'm going to have to buy a 36" pipe wrench aren't I?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

So if I'm following you right, you want to take the ineards out of the new valve and put them in the old valve? Don't do this replace the whole valve.

And don't install a 3/4 inch prv, that will reduce flow and cause the people to biotch about shioty pressure. install a brand new 2inch prv, and you can't go wrong. 

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Doubletap (May 5, 2010)

Holy good lord no.
I want to take the bell off the old PRV so it can turn off the 2" male adapter without hitting the wall. Then throw the old one away. Next I'll take the bell off the new one. Thread the new PRV onto the existing copper male adapter, re-attach the union, put the new bell back on the new PRV. The idea behind the whole proceeder is to allow me to remove the old PRV without having to cut it out and the sweat it back in place.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Doubletap said:


> Holy good lord no.
> I want to take the bell off the old PRV so it can turn off the 2" male adapter without hitting the wall. Then throw the old one away. Next I'll take the bell off the new one. Thread the new PRV onto the existing copper male adapter, re-attach the union, put the new bell back on the new PRV. The idea behind the whole proceeder is to allow me to remove the old PRV without having to cut it out and the sweat it back in place.


That would work, but have your soldering equipment just incase that male adaptor has bad threads, etc. Or your plan doesn't work out.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with rebuilding many PRV's. If the bladder has not burst and been leaking for a year the bell will come off fairly easy. A couple taps with a hammer and then a pair of 460's (channelocks) or whatever would fit it. Tap on the end of a wrench works well also. I go back with Wilkins.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

When putting a new prv in a tight spot I like using a brass nipple and a dielectric union.


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## Doubletap (May 5, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> When putting a new prv in a tight spot I like using a brass nipple and a dielectric union.


This thing is not going to be easy to work with if I have to cut and move anything. Mainly because 2" above the PRV there is a 2X2X 3/4 Tee for a hose bib, and then another 3/4 T for something else. So if I put a cutter on this thing I may be doing a hole lot of cutting to get this thing free. 

Another Idea I'm considering is opening a hole in the wall so the PRV can swing freely. 

The deal is a I have three hours while this place will be shut down. If I forget a part or something unforeseen comes up I am in a bad place.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

If you ain't got no flex in that 2 inch, you'll start unscrewing the valve only to end up having the two surfaces of the union bottom out, and that means the valve will go nowhere. 

My solution cut the valve out, and then use a slip coupling below The male adaptor, this will allow you to fit everything in.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Doubletap said:


> Ok, I do almost exclusively drain cleaning and residential repair. But today I worked at a Burger King with almost 160 psi. The existing valve is a Watts 25AUB-Z3. The customer says "get me a quote on making it right". So I've got a couple questions.
> 
> 1st- This 2" line runs very close to the wall. Can I remove the bell and screw off the valve. Disassemble the new one, screw it on, and replace the bell.
> 
> ...





Mississippiplum said:


> So if I'm following you right, you want to take the ineards out of the new valve and put them in the old valve? Don't do this replace the whole valve.
> 
> And don't install a 3/4 inch prv, that will reduce flow and cause the people to biotch about shioty pressure. install a brand new 2inch prv, and you can't go wrong.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


Totally speechless...


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Doubletap said:


> This thing is not going to be easy to work with if I have to cut and move anything. Mainly because 2" above the PRV there is a 2X2X 3/4 Tee for a hose bib, and then another 3/4 T for something else. So if I put a cutter on this thing I may be doing a hole lot of cutting to get this thing free.
> 
> Another Idea I'm considering is opening a hole in the wall so the PRV can swing freely.
> 
> The deal is a I have three hours while this place will be shut down. If I forget a part or something unforeseen comes up I am in a bad place.


Make them aware as the hole must be fixed this way you aren't footing the bill. I would schedule an after hours shut down so you could take your time. One existing poor joint and you are done. This way you can recipe whatever you want even the two other lines. I would if it may make my life easier later.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Mississippiplum said:


> If you ain't got no flex in that 2 inch, you'll start unscrewing the valve only to end up having the two surfaces of the union bottom out, and that means the valve will go nowhere.
> 
> My solution cut the valve out, and then use a slip coupling below The male adaptor, this will allow you to fit everything in.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


Slip and a street male if necessary.:thumbsup:


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Doubletap said:


> ... Then throw the old one away.


I'm sure you don't really mean that... right?  The main body of that PRV is a lovely chunk of scrap brass. It's worth some bucks in the brass bucket for sure.


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

*Prv*

Here is just a suggestion. If worried about the old prv or tight spot, cut in a new one above it, or like you said there is allot of stuff downstream so maybe use this suggestion for your next burger king.But this is just a suggestion and don't take me seriously.I am only a plumber after all.wtf do I know:blink:

Why can't you reduce the flow in your prv from 2" to 3/4". 
P.r.v's are not sized on pipe sizes.They are sized on demand and flow.

In my main municipality up here the prv's are rated for so many fixture units.it is totally gay and so I end up having to come up with watermain,bullhead a tee and put 2 prv's in series then tie back together with a tee and into one single main again.All the pipe has to be equal lengthed as well.

Ask for a prv fixture capacity some time. Cannot find it anywhere on the web , but these gods' gift to plumbing inspectors seem to know it all


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

They are sized for flow. They are also made so that the higher the psi coming in, the lower going out, the result higher the gpm. Many PRV's beat themselves to death when oversized. A pilot prv would be useful, piped in parallel (set 5 psi less than the larger for low flow situations), but not in your case. I would bet you could use a smaller prv but for god sakes do not put another one in above a bad PRV.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

2 Words.


Pro Press. 


Easy peasy.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

3 hour window? Hopefully it is already exposed and you have all the tools you need.

PRV I see here in the ground on houses mostly 3/4", have a union on 1 end and the the other end is sweated in....


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

RealLivePlumber said:


> 2 Words.
> 
> 
> Pro Press.
> ...


How close do you recommend pressing to a solder joint? I know they do not want it too close between press fittings but I have seen them stacked right on top of each other with no problems.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

RealLivePlumber said:


> 2 Words.
> 
> 
> Pro Press.
> ...


Winner!!!


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

*Prv*

Pro press....,... Really. I know it's an expensive machine but it is that same mentality to me I.e sharbite , that is ruining our trade and taking away work from us to the so called jack of all handyman.

I now make it a point to try not to teach anyone (not endentured) about plumbing.just so some non pipe fitter can take away my Job.

And ps please give me one good reason why not to install a proper working prv overtop of a non working one. Especially when there is too much at risk or too hard to get rid of original one that doesn't t even work.

It is completely poor practice , nd something I would never probably do , but given the circumstances , this option must/may/can be considered. In my mind there is no difference between this and stacking 2 shut offs where one doesn't t work and one does


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> How close do you recommend pressing to a solder joint? I know they do not want it too close between press fittings but I have seen them stacked right on top of each other with no problems.


On 3/4" i have seen it pro pressed first and then sweated with in a inch or two and not have issues.

It was me I would sweat first and then propress, this is usually existing plumbing


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> 2 Words.
> 
> 
> Pro Press.
> ...


 
:thumbsup:


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> How close do you recommend pressing to a solder joint? I know they do not want it too close between press fittings but I have seen them stacked right on top of each other with no problems.


I propress 1/4 away from the joint on 3/4, 1/2, 1", the larger sizes, 11/2-4" I stay as far away as possible, at least 3" or more. I know the 3" and the 4" pipe does not deform as much as the 11/2" and 2" does but still its good practice.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Fast fry said:


> Pro press....,... Really. I know it's an expensive machine but it is that same mentality to me I.e sharbite , that is ruining our trade and taking away work from us to the so called jack of all handyman.
> 
> I now make it a point to try not to teach anyone (not endentured) about plumbing.just so some non pipe fitter can take away my Job.
> 
> ...


Well, I am sure I may miss some but here is what comes to my mind....first, you have a screen that is already full of muck and will lead you to a problem. Second, have you never seen a prv throttle the pressure down to 20 psi when bad? Third, the diaphragm will leak soon, once that happens, it will leak out of the bell head of the prv...now what? Now you get stuck holding the bag looking like a lazy bum because you had enough room to install another prv but not enough room or time to remove it.

As far as an old valve goes....I have done it it a pinch where a gate valve attached to galvanized was at the floor. I took out the gate, re packed it....no worries about future problems. If it were on any other pipe especially copper, I say change it and stop screwing around. 

This is not an attempt to belittle anyone, just my take on things.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

If your gonna shut down a business, and have a time limit, I'd have 2 press tools, plenty of fittings, and 4 charged batteries


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Matter of fact, that's exactly what we did a few months ago, when we turned the water off in the fire house.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Fast fry said:


> Pro press....,... Really. I know it's an expensive machine but it is that same mentality to me I.e sharbite , that is ruining our trade and taking away work from us to the so called jack of all handyman.
> 
> I now make it a point to try not to teach anyone (not endentured) about plumbing.just so some non pipe fitter can take away my Job.
> 
> ...



A sharkbite is a push on hack fitting. Propress is a mechanically installed fitting, like victaulic. I have 12,000$ invested in my propress and I know there is not one hack on this planet that would invest that on a tool set. why? because they wouldn't know how to charge to get it back.

I always won bids because my shut down was 45 minutes compared to 5-8 hours. Plus I will freeze a line also, freeze and press go hand and hand.

As for stacking valves, that old valve is going to leak and continue to deteriorate, take it out. I hate to see a new ball valve over a gate valve and the gate has started leaking. there is not a good reason to leave the old stuff in.


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

I'd do it all new. 45's whatever. Either make some nice money or don't deal with the pain in the azz.


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

here is a recent one I did


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

nice clean sweat joints. I always love to sand my copper clean when I was done, especially on commercial.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Doubletap said:


> Ok, I do almost exclusively drain cleaning and residential repair. But today I worked at a Burger King with almost 160 psi. The existing valve is a Watts 25AUB-Z3. The customer says "get me a quote on making it right". So I've got a couple questions.
> 
> 1st- This 2" line runs very close to the wall. Can I remove the bell and screw off the valve. Disassemble the new one, screw it on, and replace the bell.
> 
> ...


Use a double union prv. Pretin the fitting to make the sweating go on faster. double layer a piece of sheetmetal to protect the wall. I use a 18" pipe wrench on 2" all the time with no problem at all. This should really only require a 1 hour shutdown.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

gear junkie said:


> Use a double union prv. Pretin the fitting to make the sweating go on faster. double layer a piece of sheetmetal to protect the wall. I use a 18" pipe wrench on 2" all the time with no problem at all. This should really only require a 1 hour shutdown.


 
I was thinking a double union also. It looks like the Wilkins equivalent of that prv is the #600xl and I don't know if it comes as a double union but the #70 does. If you are able to use one of those, I really can't see it taking more than an hour either. 







Paul


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Fast fry said:


> Pro press....,... Really. I know it's an expensive machine but it is that same mentality to me I.e sharbite , that is ruining our trade and taking away work from us to the so called jack of all handyman.
> 
> I now make it a point to try not to teach anyone (not endentured) about plumbing.just so some non pipe fitter can take away my Job.
> 
> ...


 
You compare ProPress to Sharkbites and say that it's the same mentality that's ruining the trade, while in the same breath you suggest stacking a new prv on top of a known bad one? :confused1: I don't get it. You're right, there's little difference (thought there certainly is a difference; the bad prv is certain to come back and bite you and a worse descision to stack) but they both say HACK and LAZY. If you have 3 hours to complete a repair there is no reason to leave a failed prv in the system.





Paul


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

Time permitting of course change out all( more mony anyways)but when the jerk off general/foreman tries to tell me to hurry up I go even slower.I love it when somebody says we have to have this done or how long will it take.I will either respond by looking at them with the stink eye and saying "u want to do this" or letting them know it takes what it takes to do your job right. Even though I am still only 12 years in the last thing I would do is to compromise my professionalism, or quality with some hack job. I am so far beyond getting in and out . I am passionate about what I do and can honestly say I can make uly look good

Yes 3 hrs is enough time. I just thought te guy was complaint o much stuff was in the way and prv wasn't t even workin because of the 160 psi.

P.s. deadlines Amuse me

Sorry for the hack on pro press. Never used it. I see apprentices unending around with that machine pro pressing the hell outta hot water tanks around here


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> nice clean sweat joints. I always love to sand my copper clean when I was done, especially on commercial.


ughh I don't do that. That's a waste of time and it looks funny. I clean the joint before soldering and that's how it comes out.


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

Fast fry said:


> Time permitting of course change out all( more mony anyways)but when the jerk off general/foreman tries to tell me to hurry up I go even slower.I love it when somebody says we have to have this done or how long will it take.I will either respond by looking at them with the stink eye and saying "u want to do this" or letting them know it takes what it takes to do your job right. Even though I am still only 12 years in the last thing I would do is to compromise my professionalism, or quality with some hack job. I am so far beyond getting in and out . I am passionate about what I do and can honestly say I can make uly look good
> 
> Yes 3 hrs is enough time. I just thought te guy was complaint o much stuff was in the way and prv wasn't t even workin because of the 160 psi.
> 
> ...


Asking how long something is going to take isn't rushing you. People need to know so they can plan. Get over yourself.


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

*Get over yourself*



fightnews said:


> Asking how long something is going to take isn't rushing you. People need to know so they can plan. Get over yourself.



Yes you are right. I am a total planner and would like to always know how long something is going to take. For instance my job yesterday today I estimated for 16 hrx2 guys and that is exactly how long it took.9 out of 10 jobs I do are time and material so that is probably where I get that mantallity from.. I explain to them if they want it done professionally I can't rush so it takes as long as it takes. I work everyday countless hours so my history speaks for itself.I.e doing a professional job.

But there is that odd time changing a toilet or copper/ soldering and something goes sideways.

On the other hand I will toe to toe any other contractor and out work them.i have only been doing this for 12 years but havn t met anyone who could keep up( by this I mean doing the 10 to 12 to 15 hr shifts to get things done). I am a do what ever it takes kind of guy.

So p.s. ( get over yourself) don t hate the player , just hate the game:thumbsup:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

fightnews said:


> Asking how long something is going to take isn't rushing you. People need to know so they can plan. Get over yourself.


:whistling2: ...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Fast fry said:


> ...On the other hand I will toe to toe any other contractor and out work them.i have only been doing this for 12 years but havn t met anyone who could keep up( by this I mean doing the 10 to 12 to 15 hr shifts to get things done). I am a do what ever it takes kind of guy....


You are 100% right. There are not any other plumbing business operators with that level of work ethic. Especially the One-Man-Shops. Those guys never put in more than an eight hour day. :thumbsup:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Someone get fry a cookie 

How do you do it?? Lol


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> Someone get fry a cookie
> 
> How do you do it?? Lol


Heres your cookie.
It looked so good I had to take a bite.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> Someone get fry a cookie
> 
> How do you do it?? Lol


I'm done after 6 hours.

I shouldn't have to work this hard at my age.

Thank (your Gawd) for employee's.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> You are 100% right. There are not any other plumbing business operators with that level of work ethic. Especially the One-Man-Shops. Those guys never put in more than an eight hour day. :thumbsup:


I don't eat lunch until we put 8 in. 

Then I'm just getting started.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

RealLivePlumber said:


> I don't eat lunch until we put 8 in.
> 
> Then I'm just getting started.


Just make sure you keep your eye on the prize.

Missing crucial events will take its toll -- They will never remember the $100.00 dollar jeans the popular sneakers or the sports or band uniforms. What they will remember is the hole left in the audience by your absence.

And that will go double for the Grand critters.


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## fightnews (Jun 3, 2012)

Fast fry said:


> Yes you are right. I am a total planner and would like to always know how long something is going to take. For instance my job yesterday today I estimated for 16 hrx2 guys and that is exactly how long it took.9 out of 10 jobs I do are time and material so that is probably where I get that mantallity from.. I explain to them if they want it done professionally I can't rush so it takes as long as it takes. I work everyday countless hours so my history speaks for itself.I.e doing a professional job.
> 
> But there is that odd time changing a toilet or copper/ soldering and something goes sideways.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm sure your a real cool player on the plumbing scene SMFH. You're beating guys in a game there not even competing in. Who wants to work 16 hour shifts? This is America not Nazi Germany.


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

*Germany*



fightnews said:


> Yeah I'm sure your a real cool player on the plumbing scene SMFH. You're beating guys in a game there not even competing in. Who wants to work 16 hour shifts? This is America not Nazi Germany.


Hah funny thing is I am German. I don t do this **** by choice.


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> Just make sure you keep your eye on the prize.
> 
> Missing crucial events will take its toll -- They will never remember the $100.00 dollar jeans the popular sneakers or the sports or band uniforms. What they will remember is the hole left in the audience by your absence.
> 
> And that will go double for the Grand critters.


Thanks for the wisdom.have my 1st kid coming in January. :no::yes:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Fast fry said:


> Thanks for the wisdom.have my 1st kid coming in January. :no::yes:


Hey Fast Fry, 

Keep up the good work. By this time next month if your streak continues everyone will think you are an obnoxious #*%[email protected] and nobody will like you.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> Hey Fast Fry,
> 
> Keep up the good work. By this time next month if your streak continues everyone will think you are an obnoxious #*%[email protected] and nobody will like you.



You saying he should head to the poli section?:laughing:


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

*Plumbing*



Gettinit said:


> Hey Fast Fry,
> 
> Keep up the good work. By this time next month if your streak continues everyone will think you are an obnoxious #*%[email protected] and nobody will like you.


Sorry if I offended you or anybody else. I will shut up now. I am not on here to try to impress . I need somewhere to vent


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

So what was the final result about the prv?


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