# Oh the things you see doing service work



## cydejob (Feb 19, 2012)

I have decided to take more pictures because I see way too much crazy crap on a daily basis. This week has not disappointed.
10 pt. for creativity


Landlady - "I don't know why the sump smells and water level gets so close to the top of the pit." Me- "Your shower, sink, softener, condensate, WMOB, Laundry Tub all dump into there. Your pump cannot handle it, Also it is not legal or sanitary how it is piped." Landlady-"Its only a year old and the guy at Menards said it was the best pipe money can buy." Me-


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Sell her a M-267 Zoeller and a new sealed pit, throw in the 2" cast iron check valve for the low price of $1495.00 while supplies last.


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## Plumb26 (May 18, 2013)

The more traps you have, the better off you are. Double protection. Glad I didn't try to clean this one w/ the K-45AF without scoping it out from below first.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Yea. Good looking water line. You can swing that around like a jump rope. 😝


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

vinpadalino said:


> Yea. Good looking water line. You can swing that around like a jump rope. dde1d


At least it's color coded


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> At least it's color coded


and the other side is galvanized lol.

is it a drum trap?


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

AKdaplumba said:


> and the other side is galvanized lol.
> 
> is it a drum trap?


Looks like a lead drum


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## Plumb26 (May 18, 2013)

AKdaplumba said:


> and the other side is galvanized lol.
> 
> is it a drum trap?


Yes, lead drum. It's connection to the lead toilet flange had went bad as well. Had to re-pipe those two drains. What a p.i.t.a that was. Don't know whose idea it was to run a lead tub drain between the mud bed below the tile back then but they were definitely expecting that crap to last forever..... And nothing ever does. The poor lady had just bought the house and the home inspector definitely failed to give her her moneys worth. I wish I would've took a picture of the shoddy tank-less install..... It was as bad if not worse than this. Probably the same plumber.


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## cydejob (Feb 19, 2012)

Yes that is the vent bar. Other side of the wall is a bathroom. What a pain that was to correct.


Wonder why they don't make these strips anymore? The HO Said He loved it because he could plug all kinds of stuff in at the same time.


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## cydejob (Feb 19, 2012)

Who needs support. A fairly Strict inspector passed this gem at some point.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

cydejob said:


> Yes that is the vent bar. Other side of the wall is a bathroom. What a pain that was to correct.
> http://s117.photobucket.com/user/brunotula/media/20131111_081236.jpg.html
> 
> Wonder why they don't make these strips anymore? The HO Said He loved it because he could plug all kinds of stuff in at the same time.
> http://s117.photobucket.com/user/brunotula/media/20131015_105728.jpg.html


Not legal.. no grounding on this


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

cydejob said:


> Who needs support. A fairly Strict inspector passed this gem at some point.
> http://s117.photobucket.com/user/brunotula/media/20131016_121805.jpg.html


He wasn't a plumbing inspector.. so he can pass anything if his title is "inspector"


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Sell her a M-267 Zoeller and a new sealed pit, throw in the 2" cast iron check valve for the low price of $1495.00 while supplies last.


That's a fair price! Nice work


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

cydejob said:


> Who needs support. A fairly Strict inspector passed this gem at some point.
> http://s117.photobucket.com/user/brunotula/media/20131016_121805.jpg.html


As soon as those tanks fail and fill with water snappity snap goes that copper.


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## Audidriver19 (Jul 27, 2013)

love2surf927 said:


> As soon as those tanks fail and fill with water snappity snap goes that copper.


Especially being on a 45 like that


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## cydejob (Feb 19, 2012)

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I understand they are not legal and why. I have been doing this for many years and can't believe this is the first one I have seen in use. 

I warned the H.O. about the exp. tanks. Told them I would take care of it for a reasonable price. I guess the 1200sf finished basement wasn't worth it, they decided it was fine for now...


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

A little pressure issue ?


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

Did it have an expansion tank?

If it did I'm sure it was bad. Did you check the water pressure? How high?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PlungerJockey said:


> Did it have an expansion tank?
> 
> If it did I'm sure it was bad. Did you check the water pressure? How high?


Around 300 psi.... :yes:


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Around 300 psi.... :yes:


I've seen them do that around 150


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes i have seen them do it at 60 psi when the cold has a check valve in line


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

JERRYMAC said:


> Yes i have seen them do it at 60 psi when the cold has a check valve in line


Aren't the tanks supposedly rated to 150??


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Had an expansion tank. But like most it was bad. Not sure if previous plumber set pressure in tank . I did in new one . 
House pressure was 68 . 

This was / is a power vent .


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

love2surf927 said:


> Aren't the tanks supposedly rated to 150??


Yes, but that is 150psi cold. Pressure has less to do with it than heat. When the temp increases the water expands and if its a closed system than that water is going to expand via the weakest spot. In most cases with a gas water heater its the bottom of the tank. So it could be at 60psi but then water heats up and expands thus blowing out the bottom of the tank.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

This is the bottom of that tank .


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Cal said:


> This is the bottom of that tank .


. Dayum


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Yes, but that is 150psi cold. Pressure has less to do with it than heat. When the temp increases the water expands and if its a closed system than that water is going to expand via the weakest spot. In most cases with a gas water heater its the bottom of the tank. So it could be at 60psi but then water heats up and expands thus blowing out the bottom of the tank.


I understand thermal expansion. 150 lbs. is 150 lbs. whether its hot or cold water. If I'm not mistaken the maximum operating pressure for most tanks is 150 (please correct me if I'm wrong I'm just going off memory) so why should this happen? I'm not in any way saying that no expansion tank is necessary and again I understand the concept of thermal expansion. I actually just had one 6 months old leak due to a failed exp. tank and high incoming pressure. I'm just questioning the integrity of their claim of up to 150 lbs working pressure. Maybe I'm getting mixed up the operating pressure and the pressure it's tested at.

Edit: just looked it up the maximum operating pressure is 150. From my experiences and others I have seen including this they do NOT work at 150 or near it. The t&p should blow at 150 so theoretically the pressure should not get higher than that. Seems like the T&p valves should be rated less than 150 if the tanks can't take that pressure. My two cents....


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Good little read.

http://www.bradfordwhite.com/pressure-damaged-water-heaters-115


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

love2surf927 said:


> The t&p should blow at 150 so theoretically the pressure should not get higher than that. Seems like the T&p valves should be rated less than 150 if the tanks can't take that pressure. My two cents....


You would think the T&P would pop off but it does not. Thermal expansion happens faster than the T&P can pop off.

This is why most codes state that a T&P is not an acceptable means of controlling thermal expansion.

Another good read
http://www.watts.com/pages/learnAbout/thermalExpansion.asp?catId=64


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

love2surf927 said:


> I understand thermal expansion. 150 lbs. is 150 lbs. whether its hot or cold water. If I'm not mistaken the maximum operating pressure for most tanks is 150 (please correct me if I'm wrong I'm just going off memory) so why should this happen? I'm not in any way saying that no expansion tank is necessary and again I understand the concept of thermal expansion. I actually just had one 6 months old leak due to a failed exp. tank and high incoming pressure. I'm just questioning the integrity of their claim of up to 150 lbs working pressure. Maybe I'm getting mixed up the operating pressure and the pressure it's tested at.
> 
> Edit: just looked it up the maximum operating pressure is 150. From my experiences and others I have seen including this they do NOT work at 150 or near it. The t&p should blow at 150 so theoretically the pressure should not get higher than that. Seems like the T&p valves should be rated less than 150 if the tanks can't take that pressure. My two cents....


When the T&P goes off due to pressure it does so minimally, meaning it drips. If temperature sets it off than it opens fully, which still isn't even a full 1/2" port. Unless the temp gets to 210° than the T&P can't keep up with the expansion rate which continually occurs as the temp rises. On a closed system the water will expand a lot before reaching 210° and becoming super heated and coming out as steam from the fixtures.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Noticed this vent on the way to a job, it must be 8 feet above the roof line. 

Haven't learned to edit so the tower in the back ground throws it off.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Maybe it is not a vent. Could be a tie-down for the tower. :laughing:


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Maybe it is not a vent. Could be a tie-down for the tower. :laughing:


I was a bit stunned when I saw the vent. The angle I took the picture from does not allow the joint to be shown, but I know they used what looked like SDR 21. 

In the area I was at I'd wager money there was no inspection, and even if there was the inspector wouldn't know much about plumbing. Basically its a free for all there.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> When the T&P goes off due to pressure it does so minimally, meaning it drips. If temperature sets it off than it opens fully, which still isn't even a full 1/2" port. Unless the temp gets to 210° than the T&P can't keep up with the expansion rate which continually occurs as the temp rises. On a closed system the water will expand a lot before reaching 210° and becoming super heated and coming out as steam from the fixtures.


Not sure I agree with this I have seen t&p's spewing pretty good from too much pressure.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

love2surf927 said:


> Not sure I agree with this I have seen t&p's spewing pretty good from too much pressure.


That's the exception to the rule. Typically it just drips from slowly increasing high pressure. 

Put a gauge onto a boiler drain and shut off the cold side valve. Fire up the tank and see how quickly the pressure increases. The T&P may open more than a drip but if its doing this over and over for a few days it will wear out the T&P and weaken the tank. 

When expansion blows out the bottom of the tank than the problem has been present for a while. The T&P can only handle so much.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> That's the exception to the rule. Typically it just drips from slowly increasing high pressure. Put a gauge onto a boiler drain and shut off the cold side valve. Fire up the tank and see how quickly the pressure increases. The T&P may open more than a drip but if its doing this over and over for a few days it will wear out the T&P and weaken the tank. When expansion blows out the bottom of the tank than the problem has been present for a while. The T&P can only handle so much.


thats why they require a 125 psi pressure relief around here. It has to be added in addition to the T&P.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> thats why they require a 125 psi pressure relief around here. It has to be added in addition to the T&P.


Hmm. So it is just a relief valve? Interesting. Whats the type that's required? Why not just require an expansion tank?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Hmm. So it is just a relief valve? Interesting. Whats the type that's required? Why not just require an expansion tank?


the relief is in addition to an expansion tank. It's only job was to help with large spikes in pressure due to thermal expansion. The type I will check on,its on of throws things where you just tell them to give you a pressure relief. It is 125 psi pressure only installed downstream of the check valve and right besides the expansion tank.


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## svaldrin (Nov 22, 2012)

Every water heater from my understanding has a clear tag fixed to the tank stateing the max pressure and the working pressure. All of the ones I have looked at state max is 300psi and working is 150psi. To my knowledge there are several different factors, the t&p could and most of the time around here is frozen shut with calcium. We constantly see tanks fail due to thermal expansion, the biggest factor is water does not compress and when it is heated it expands; rapidly in a closed system (which is most here).
I am just an apprentice but I have looked and thought about the T&P and why it does not open with all of the pressure being built up? I would be interested to see if the above posted w/h had a broken t&P or if it failed due to sediment. Or as previously stated it is too rapid for the T&P?
( I could not remember if I posted an intro, would be happy to do it just didnt want to dbl post)


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Well, since you only have one total post, I would venture to guess that you forgot the intro.


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## svaldrin (Nov 22, 2012)

I would guess you are correct, BRB.


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