# I am SO out of practice!



## hroark2112

I've been a project manager/desk jockey for WAY too long. I made a bit of a mess on this job, I kicked a can of primer over under the crawlspace, got primer everywhere. The toes on my left foot are all purple, and now I owe the GC a sheet of plastic. Of course, the only 2 parts of the house that have plastic under them are the addition I'm working on, and the sheet of plastic under the old bathroom that I put it. I hate laying in dirt & mud.

On to the pics. The inspector already nailed me on a few things, the GC only gave me a 4" wet wall and it's half on top of the joist, so I was left with only a bit of space to work with. I had to put a 1/8 bend and a 1/16 bend under the floor to make the angle, and the inspector nailed me on the 2" washing machine waste going horizontal...so I had to cut out a section of 2X8 and do it with just a 1/8 bend. Oops!! The under-floor pics are after the change. He also wanted me to change the nail plates and insulate the pipes, which I did...I'll take pics tomorrow. He also wants to see the fiberglass shower floor installed for the rough-in, which we don't want to do but he's insistent. They always get messed up if they're in too early.

On to the pics.


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## hroark2112

Under floor:


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## 3KP

No Comment!:jester:


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## SlickRick

I think you better go back to the office.


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## Airgap

How'd you have enough primer left to spill?.....:laughing:








Just kiddin....


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## Redwood

In that last pic what purpose does the cleanout serve?

Doesn't look like it is very accessible for drain cleaning purposes...


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## rocksteady

Redwood said:


> In that last pic what purpose does the cleanout serve?
> 
> Doesn't look like it is very accessible for drain cleaning purposes...


Test tee?










Paul


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## ILPlumber

I get so tired of seeing crown vented traps on washer boxes........

You did pretty well to run all those drains with no hangers. I see 1 and possibly some band iron on the main in 1 photo.

An entire bathroom group and laundry on 1 2" vent.....

Damn....


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## Phat Cat

Barney would be proud.


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## Master Mark

Redwood , you are being too easy on this guy....

if this were my work, 
 I would never hear the end of it..


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## Redwood

Master Mark said:


> Redwood , you are being too easy on this guy....
> 
> if this were my work,
> I would never hear the end of it..


Nah... I wouldn't do that would I? :laughing:

I like colors such as lime green, purple, and some others....
Whats not to like...


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## Phat Cat

No one ever accused Red of being an equal-opportunity basher. :no:


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

What the inspector didn't mind the lack of support and even if he did you shouldn't


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## AKdaplumba

whats the min size of a 2" trap arm?


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## Bayside500

the wye for the washer stack should be downstream of the bathroom by our code.

and a cleanout tee is required on the washer stack as well.

needs more support on DWV pipeing

needs LESS primer


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## plbgbiz

OK Tony...So you didn't score any style points with the guys that have apparently never spilled any primer.:whistling2: In the grand scheme of things, primer and visqueen are cheap. If the profit was lost because of the plastic and a can of primer, then there are much larger issues for you to worry about. 

The waste in the pipe will never know or care if you were sloppy with the primer any more than a fish knows if the paint job on your bass boat matches your truck. It's nice to see and do clean work, but in and of itself this doesn't make the pipe drain worse or better. I'd rather see sloppy primer than a guy that was afraid to use it and have bad glue joints. Just don't ignore the big ticket items.

More support strapping for the pipe under the floor.

Put a block between the floor and the shower drain at the strapping so it can't pull up or down.

Consider the same for the closet bend.

The 2" 1/8 bend (lav and shower) on top of the long sweep looks like it might be cockeyed on the right side. It doesn't look straight compared to the pipe it is glued to. Might be an optical illusion but still worth double checking.

It might be worth the effort to have the washer trap swap places with the washer water lines (extending the trap arm a bit).

A single 2" VTR will serve a 3" drain just fine if the waste piping is correct.

The washer should tie in downstream of the toilet, not in the middle of the bathroom group. There could be other drains before or after a bathroom group, but probably not a good idea to put one in the middle.

Is that an exterior wall? What is the climate? How do you plan on preventing freezing of the water and washer p-trap? Where does the water line go that is headed to the ceiling?

Tell the GC he's lucky the plastic is all that got primer on it. Does he drive a white truck?:laughing:


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## plbgbiz

plbgbiz said:


> ...Where does the water line go that is headed to the ceiling?....


Feeding the toilet? I guess that kept you from over drilling the outside corner.


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## hroark2112

Redwood said:


> In that last pic what purpose does the cleanout serve?
> 
> Doesn't look like it is very accessible for drain cleaning purposes...


That's where I tied in the new drain. Test tee is correct.


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## hroark2112

ILPlumber said:


> I get so tired of seeing crown vented traps on washer boxes........
> 
> You did pretty well to run all those drains with no hangers. I see 1 and possibly some band iron on the main in 1 photo.
> 
> An entire bathroom group and laundry on 1 2" vent.....
> 
> Damn....


Clue me in here please. Crown vented trap??

There is more support now, the inspection had been requested for a PM inspection and he showed at 7:45. 

As far as more vent, I couldn't get another vent anywhere. If you notice the PEX for the toilet supply, I couldn't even get a 1/2" water line up that wall, no less a 2" vent. I hated running the line over top like that.


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## hroark2112

Bayside500 said:


> the wye for the washer stack should be downstream of the bathroom by our code.
> 
> and a cleanout tee is required on the washer stack as well.
> 
> needs more support on DWV pipeing
> 
> needs LESS primer


Because the wye for the shower drain is after a 45 and a 22, it is technically on the horizontal. If I had been able to run a vent in the wall behind the toilet, I'd rather have it there. 

Isn't more primer better??


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## Widdershins

Do you save and reuse the paint roller you apply primer with or do you buy a new one for each job?:blink:


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## hroark2112

Good call on the water in the P trap. I'll take some sheet armaflex and put it between the trap and the wall. 

I could have used my sock for the primer. It's totally purple 

Maybe I'll spray paint the pipes white...


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## Plumb Bob

Where is the toilet vent? Would not pass in my town


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## plbgbiz

We need an ISO from House.


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## liquidplumber

Toilet is not vented and you need some hangers and clean-outs.

I sure am glad they don't make us use purple primer in Massachusetts.


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## Plumb Bob

Whats up with flat wyes? Plenty of room to roll those puppies up!


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## U666A

AKdaplumba said:


> whats the min size of a 2" trap arm?


Um... 2"! Final answer! :laughing:

In Ontario, maximum trap arm length for 1-1/4, 1-1/2, & 2" are all the same... 1.5M.

And to the OP... are you arguing with the fact that the laundry is crown vented, or are you unfamiliar with the term


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## smoldrn

Definitely need some strapping iron under that floor. The pex in the bathroom should be strapped every 30", here I would have to have shock absorbers on the wm line, since it's a quick-closing fixture.The cw feed to the lav looks like it's coming out of a wye, vs. a tee. That puts unnecessary stress on the pipe at that joint.
I won't gig ya on the sloppy primer, I would make my guys tear that out if it was on my job, but, I would've talked the GC into flipping the shower & wc around. I just don't like a vale on an exterior wall.

I'm still curious why SC reciprocates a NC license, but NC won't honor mine?


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## Widdershins

U666A said:


> are you arguing with the fact that the laundry is crown vented, or are you unfamiliar with the term


 Crown vent traps are the only ones available in PVC in my neck of the woods.


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## Widdershins

smoldrn said:


> The pex in the bathroom should be strapped every 30", here I would have to have shock absorbers on the wm line, since it's a quick-closing fixture.


 It's an Ox-Box, so it's pretty likely it has built in shock arrestors.

I'm guessing the camera flash obscured that.


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## U666A

Widdershins said:


> Crown vent traps are the only ones available in PVC in my neck of the woods.


You can actually buy a "crown vented p-trap" still?!?


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## GREENPLUM

I can turn off my kit faucet perdy darn fast, its a gift. 

I wonder if I should put in some hammer arrestors?


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## Tommy plumber

ILPlumber said:


> I get so tired of seeing crown vented traps on washer boxes........
> 
> You did pretty well to run all those drains with no hangers. I see 1 and possibly some band iron on the main in 1 photo.
> 
> An entire bathroom group and laundry on 1 2" vent.....
> 
> Damn....


 




Good eye, I didn't see that. I was noticing the 2" stack for the laundry. Here, that now needs to be 3" min.


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## Widdershins

U666A said:


> You can actually buy a "crown vented p-trap" still?!?


 It's all we have available to us here on the Left Coast.


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## Widdershins

GREENPLUM said:


> I can turn off my kit faucet perdy darn fast, its a gift.
> 
> I wonder if I should put in some hammer arrestors?


 Does your kitchen sink faucet have a fast closing solenoid?


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## hroark2112

U666A said:


> Um... 2"! Final answer! :laughing:
> 
> In Ontario, maximum trap arm length for 1-1/4, 1-1/2, & 2" are all the same... 1.5M.
> 
> And to the OP... are you arguing with the fact that the laundry is crown vented, or are you unfamiliar with the term


I'm not familiar with the term.


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## hroark2112

smoldrn said:


> Definitely need some strapping iron under that floor. The pex in the bathroom should be strapped every 30", here I would have to have shock absorbers on the wm line, since it's a quick-closing fixture.The cw feed to the lav looks like it's coming out of a wye, vs. a tee. That puts unnecessary stress on the pipe at that joint.
> I won't gig ya on the sloppy primer, I would make my guys tear that out if it was on my job, but, I would've talked the GC into flipping the shower & wc around. I just don't like a vale on an exterior wall.
> 
> I'm still curious why SC reciprocates a NC license, but NC won't honor mine?


Both walls are exterior. The homeowner refused to change the layout so all the plumbing is in exterior walls. Of course, the interior wall on the other side is directly on top if the old foundation wall, so I'd have had to get them to move that wall one way or the other. 

NC won't reciprocate licenses, period. It was way harder to get my Florida license, but NC wouldn't look at it.


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## OldSchool

Well at least your plumbing matches the other trades on that house... such as the framer and the Sheet Metal Guy


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## hroark2112

Tommy plumber said:


> Good eye, I didn't see that. I was noticing the 2" stack for the laundry. Here, that now needs to be 3" min.


Here we have to have a 3" for the laundry on the horizontal but the vertical pipe can be 2". If it had to be 3" the whole job would have been easier since they would have had to give me a 6" wet wall.


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## SlickRick

Heidi said:


> dude thats terrible....


Hello! Introduction Requested
An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## smoldrn

Widdershins said:


> It's an Ox-Box, so it's pretty likely it has built in shock arrestors.
> 
> I'm guessing the camera flash obscured that.


I haven't seen those yet, guess they're not stocking them here so far.


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## GREENPLUM

Widdershins said:


> Does your kitchen sink faucet have a fast closing solenoid?


id go head to head vs a fast closing solenoid


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## Airgap

What's up with the 3 bottom plates???....


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## plbgbiz

Maybe the GC precutting studs over-achieved a bit.


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## Airgap

plbgbiz said:


> Maybe the GC precutting studs over-achieved a bit.


That would be the only over-achieving the GC did on that job....I hate nail plates bad enough already....


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## OldSchool

*Wtf*

Wtf


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## RealLivePlumber

ILPlumber said:


> I get so tired of seeing crown vented traps on washer boxes........
> 
> You did pretty well to run all those drains with no hangers. I see 1 and possibly some band iron on the main in 1 photo.
> 
> An entire bathroom group and laundry on 1 2" vent.....
> 
> Damn....


Can you explain what you mean in reference to the washing machine trap?

Around here, it would be considered an "s"'trap.

The trap arm needs to be 2xD of pipe size, in length. You can't fit it in one bay. I think some codes don't allow you to drill 2 5/8" through walls studs.


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## Redwood

You need 2 pipe diameters between the trap and the sani-tee or, it becomes a crown vent...

In days of old this is how it was done...


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## Plumber Jim

hroark2112 said:


> I'm not familiar with the term.


This is a picture i found online of an example of a crown vent










by our code here which is IPC the trap arm needs to be 2 sizes. so it needs to be 4".

On the nail plates I would be required to put the 5"x8" plates on the top and bottom. The trim guys will find those spots between you little nail plates and hit a pipe. :laughing:


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## Plumber Jim

dang Red! you beat me too it. lol


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## Widdershins

Plumber Jim said:


> dang Red! you beat me too it. lol


 Get a room.


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## Redwood

I'd say great minds think alike but then Rick would tell us to get a room... :laughing:


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## Plumber Jim

Redwood said:


> I'd say great minds think alike but then Rick would tell us to get a room... :laughing:


 :laughing:


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## Airgap

Those arrows are pointing to where the AAV goes....


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## Plumber Jim

RealLivePlumber said:


> Can you explain what you mean in reference to the washing machine trap?
> 
> Around here, it would be considered an "s"'trap.
> 
> The trap arm needs to be 2xD of pipe size, in length. You can't fit it in one bay. I think some codes don't allow you to drill 2 5/8" through walls studs.



If you over drill the stud you could put in a stud shoe.


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## SlickRick




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## Widdershins

SlickRick said:


>


Ew.


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## Redwood

SlickRick said:


>


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

We have this one over on DCF...


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## U666A

Fixture waste requirement unique to a fixture utilizing a p-trap. Minimum length of a trap arm shall be 2 waste pipe diameters measured from the weir of the trap to the vent connection.

In essence, if you actually measured it with standard fittings, you would need 4" on a 2" trap. Although it is code in my neck of the woods, the code was implemented for fixtures which discharge suds, namely washing machines.

Also, here you cannot buy them anymore as they are illegal, but the term "crown vented" actually refers to something not unlike what you saw in a preceding picture. The vent connection was actually integral to the 1/4 bend of the trap, almost directly above, but slightly downstream of the weir...

UA


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## Widdershins

U666A said:


> /QUOTE]
> 
> Are you mocking me with your signature?
> 
> I go out of my way to honor your countries Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey past and you mock me?
> 
> No more Freedom Fries for you. Ever.


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## hroark2112

Airgap said:


> What's up with the 3 bottom plates???....


I think he hates me. Or he hates my drill bits.


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## hroark2112

Plumber Jim said:


> This is a picture i found online of an example of a crown vent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by our code here which is IPC the trap arm needs to be 2 sizes. so it needs to be 4".
> 
> On the nail plates I would be required to put the 5"x8" plates on the top and bottom. The trim guys will find those spots between you little nail plates and hit a pipe. :laughing:



Thanks for the drawing. I see what you mean, I'll make sure not to do that in the future  Lesson learned!

I changed all the nail plates on the top & bottom already to the big-ass plates. Wee.


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## hroark2112

OldSchool said:


> Wtf


Yeah, the framing is a mess. It's also out of square, so the fiberglass shower pan is going to be a pain to set.

As far as the "wtfs" up there, the pipe you pointed to is the 4" for the toilet.


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## Optimus Primer

plbgbiz said:


> OK Tony...So you didn't score any style points with the guys that have apparently never spilled any primer.:whistling2: In the grand scheme of things, primer and visqueen are cheap. If the profit was lost because of the plastic and a can of primer, then there are much larger issues for you to worry about.
> 
> The waste in the pipe will never know or care if you were sloppy with the primer any more than a fish knows if the paint job on your bass boat matches your truck. It's nice to see and do clean work, but in and of itself this doesn't make the pipe drain worse or better. I'd rather see sloppy primer than a guy that was afraid to use it and have bad glue joints. Just don't ignore the big ticket items.
> 
> More support strapping for the pipe under the floor.
> 
> *Put a block between the floor and the shower drain at the strapping so it can't pull up or down.*
> 
> *Consider the same for the closet bend.*
> 
> The 2" 1/8 bend (lav and shower) on top of the long sweep looks like it might be cockeyed on the right side. It doesn't look straight compared to the pipe it is glued to. Might be an optical illusion but still worth double checking.
> 
> It might be worth the effort to have the washer trap swap places with the washer water lines (extending the trap arm a bit).
> 
> A single 2" VTR will serve a 3" drain just fine if the waste piping is correct.
> 
> The washer should tie in downstream of the toilet, not in the middle of the bathroom group. There could be other drains before or after a bathroom group, but probably not a good idea to put one in the middle.
> 
> Is that an exterior wall? What is the climate? How do you plan on preventing freezing of the water and washer p-trap? Where does the water line go that is headed to the ceiling?
> 
> Tell the GC he's lucky the plastic is all that got primer on it. Does he drive a white truck?:laughing:


So glad to see someone else does this. I think I'm the only one at my shop that supports them both ways.


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## Optimus Primer

Plus if it's a remodel and they're still living there, you better put a cartridge in that delta valve or you'll get cross connection.


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## Protech

Plumber Jim said:


> This is a picture i found online of an example of a crown vent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by our code here which is IPC the trap arm needs to be 2 sizes. so it needs to be 4".
> 
> On the nail plates I would be required to put the 5"x8" plates on the top and bottom. The trim guys will find those spots between you little nail plates and hit a pipe. :laughing:


Looks like he had 4" of developed length to me.


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## hroark2112

house plumber said:


> Plus if it's a remodel and they're still living there, you better put a cartridge in that delta valve or you'll get cross connection.


If they were living there, I'd do that. The house was messed up by the tornadoes that came through in April, there is still no power and the home is still uninhabitable.

I also put ball valves at the point of connection to the main lines so I'm not pressure testing the water heater. It's a 10+ year old water heater, and I don't feel like buying them a new one.

I've always been a big believer in extra valves, any time I do a remodel or addition I'll add valves to isolate new piping from the old.


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## U666A

Protech said:


> Looks like he had 4" of developed length to me.


I wanted to say, that without a street fitting of some sort, it would be difficult to breach that code...

But I have little experience with PVC....


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## stillaround

Is the wye -1/8th bend picking up the shower trap legal? Looks like not properly vented...


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## Optimus Primer

you glued both of your 2 inch traps backwards too.


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## stillaround

:laughing:Hi, my name is hroark2112 and I'm an...........out of practice plumber..........:laughing:

but you were willing to subject yourself to this and that means healing is on the way...good job:jester:j/k........


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## sNApple

that rough in....










i am dissapoint


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## hroark2112

stillaround said:


> Is the wye -1/8th bend picking up the shower trap legal? Looks like not properly vented...


It's less than 4' from the lav vent.


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## hroark2112

stillaround said:


> :laughing:Hi, my name is hroark2112 and I'm an...........out of practice plumber..........:laughing:
> 
> but you were willing to subject yourself to this and that means healing is on the way...good job:jester:j/k........


The only way to get better is practice, and subjecting myself to the uncensored beatings given by the oh-so-kind folks around here 

In addition to being an out of practice plumber, I'm a hockey goalie...which means I'm used to lots of criticism and pain. In the long run, I'm sure I'll be a better plumber than a goalie, but both will involve me getting my butt kicked a few times. I've got thick skin, I can take it.


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## stillaround

hroark2112 said:


> It's less than 4' from the lav vent.


 It seems to me the code changed, but not too long ago a trap going to a combo tee wye was considered s-trapped..but I think its legal now, at least on a lav..


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