# Hot Water Heater Heated Not Hot



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

It's not confusing if you think about it. But here is the deal. 50 gallon State electric heater and complaint is no hot water. HO says power went out after bad storm, but breakers were not tripped. I pulled off the cover and here is what I smelled/saw...
According to HO there are other issues with electrical in home so at first I was thinking lightning strike right? But would a strike have tripped the breaker that goes to the disconnect then feeds the heater? The bottom element and tstat looked ok, but it goes without saying we'll be replacing the whole unit.
My worry is what about the electrical system here? I know our company will prob eat the replacement here, but what if you were a small company could you afford to replace a water heater that was damaged by lightning or improperly wired electrical?
This is not first heater I've seen damaged like this. Had a Rinnai a couple months ago that had the board and electrical components fried after a lightning strike.









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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Warranty is voided out if the home is hit by a bolt of lightening...


this should not be eater by the business, maybe State will warranty out the tank if it is still under 6 years old and you dont say anything about the fried components....

that is why people have homeowners insurance..

I get to go out and look at a 3 week old water heater we installed and they left town without turning off their water... The ballcock upstairs broke and flooded the home and basically soaked the gas heater...

I told them to get a new heater especially if its on the insurnace companies dime......



...


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

I've seen a bad neutral entering the building do similar damage. Only found the bad neutral when after replacing the heater and trying to refill the tank. The well pump was running at 20% speed and touching the pump and getting one heck of a shock.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Yah told the boss we should replace unit but I don't want to connect electrical until the electrician takes a look at everything. I have a feeling there are other problems going on

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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Flat out, no warranty until the electrical is checked. Isn’t State out of business?


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

I think a lightening strike would have done a lot more damage to the wiring around the stat.

I would be looking for a loose connection which allows heat to build up. Usually if that happens you see exactly what your looking at. Burning at the point of the fault.


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## Sipp (Jul 14, 2016)

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OpenSights said:


> Flat out, no warranty until the electrical is checked. Isn’t State out of business?


No, State got bought up by A.O.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Put on the schedule today will report back later

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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Alright. The sparkies visited yesterday after I left and told HO no issues with electrical, possibly surges or issue with electric provider. So it was replaced today. Looks like State is gonna eat this one...
First pic everything disconnected, second pic, reused tee for exp tank and nipple ended up pulling nipple with dip tube hehe. Last all reconnected power back on and water heating. Check out the nice meter the sparky left me!









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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

In my area that drip tube would fail. No fittings allowed.

Dude that’s a nice amp clamp! Couple hundred bucks worth! Keep that on your truck, it can help you out in one of those oddball pinches. I have mine on my drain cleaning truck, but my Master doesn’t have one, bugs the crap out of me when I need it. 

Do you know how to use it?


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Clean work. Nice Job. Now be nice to sparky... I love the liquid tight conduit, so much easier.

Hate to agree with Sparky, but the way it burned looked like a loose connection on that stat.


In Illinois the relief drain has to be metallic and not discharge through a wall or outside.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

OpenSights said:


> In my area that drip tube would fail. No fittings allowed.
> 
> Dude that’s a nice amp clamp! Couple hundred bucks worth! Keep that on your truck, it can help you out in one of those oddball pinches. I have mine on my drain cleaning truck, but my Master doesn’t have one, bugs the crap out of me when I need it.
> 
> Do you know how to use it?


Yah more or less. I have one and yah the HO said she'd give it back to electrician since he'll be there again today. I know what it's like to leave a tool only for it to walk off. Lost an aluminum 2ft rigid pipe wrench that way!

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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I lost an 18” aluminum ridgid pipe wrench once. By the time I realized it I had no clue where. About a year later I got a call to a rental to see why some college kids ripped open a wall... no, I ripped it open to replace an old galvi line. My wrench was still in the ceiling gripping the galvi I attached to.

The one that really pisses me off was loosing my dead dad’s hammer. I was active on the site, left it where I needed it next and some azhat from another trade walked off with it.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

GAN said:


> Clean work. Nice Job. Now be nice to sparky... I love the liquid tight conduit, so much easier.
> 
> Hate to agree with Sparky, but the way it burned looked like a loose connection on that stat.
> 
> ...


Yah I won't know anything until it happens again or we just don't hear back from the HO. That can be annoying since I like to know for sure what happened
As for relief lines here is the irony of that whole thing. We all know that CPVC is rated for hot water. Except this is a temp/pressure relief valve. We all know it opens under two conditions(excluding failure of valve or sediment that gets caught at the seal) high temp namely 210*F or 150 psi. A quick look at CPVC specs shows that the temp for this pipe is 200*F. May vary by manufacturer not entirely sure. 
They started this bc too much copper was getting stolen. We used to run 3/4" but the city changed that saying the CPVC was slightly smaller than relief outlet so in came the copper fitting to CPVC adapter and now we run all TP lines in 1" CPVC. Even the drain pan lines are run in 1"CPVC to keep everything the same. 
I wonder if that valve opens at 210 will it melt that CPVC. I never seen a TP valve actually open so would love to see what happens then

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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Oh yeah and we terminate relief and pan drain to outside, no less than 6inches from ground or more that 24 inches. I rarely see them terminate at a floor drain in residential although you will see it more on commercial jobs here

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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Common sense is an uncommon virtue.

We can use a copper mip and copper with no other fittings unless the prv is on top, or and an approved plastic drip tube.

If you use a coupling to extend the old drip tube so it is between 2-4” off the floor per code it jeopardizes the health and welfare of the nation. At least in the state of Michigan.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

OpenSights said:


> In my area that drip tube would fail. No fittings allowed.
> 
> Dude that’s a nice amp clamp! Couple hundred bucks worth! Keep that on your truck, it can help you out in one of those oddball pinches. I have mine on my drain cleaning truck, but my Master doesn’t have one, bugs the crap out of me when I need it.
> 
> Do you know how to use it?


Are you talking about the temp/pressure relief line? Or the dip tube that came out with the cold side nipple? Where are your water heaters typically located?

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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Usually in the basement, talking about the pressure relief valve.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

My thoughts also on a near boiling water release of a T&P valve.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

OpenSights said:


> Usually in the basement, talking about the pressure relief valve.


Ok I thought you were. When you said drip tube I thought you meant the DIP tube which is installed at factory. Got it.
Yah we don't do basements here. The few homes that have them are usually game rooms, man caves etc.

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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Years ago was on a job where the 100 gallon commc, water heater was blowing
off on temperature 210 degrees hot water and "Steam" coming out of t&p
drain pipe I stuck my steel toed boot under for a second and got my toes 
burned for my trouble, 
I would not trust cpvc pipe not to blow apart or melt if a water heater t & p goes off temperature but the code is the code


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> Years ago was on a job where the 100 gallon commc, water heater was blowing
> off on temperature 210 degrees hot water and "Steam" coming out of t&p
> drain pipe I stuck my steel toed boot under for a second and got my toes
> burned for my trouble,
> I would not trust cpvc pipe not to blow apart or melt if a water heater t & p goes off temperature but the code is the code


Some day they'll change it or at least amend it locally. For now I install it bc that is what will pass. There are other issues like if you terminate it with CPVC or Copper there is bound to be some homeowner that will put a SharkBite cap on the end if they see it discharging water. And that is something we definitely DON'T want. The code addresses this for hard pipe like galvanized cannot have threads on the end. 

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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Couple of weeks ago we put in a new Rheem, came back the day before inspection to set temps, and at normal setting we only got 98 at the kitchen. As an experiment we turned it to very hot with a new control valve ordered. Next day inspection was canceled but we stopped by to check, 108.8. At least it’s vacant.


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