# Spuds-a poppin'



## pipefighter (Sep 26, 2009)

I have a facility with 12 American Standard floor mount top inlet flushometer water closets. Don't know when they were installed, but the spuds are starting to pop out. No problem... replace spuds, right? Small problem... 11/2" spuds are too small, pop right out of the inlet, and 2" are too big, won't fit in. I've gotten a few 1/12" to stay in and not leak by wrapping the gasket in teflon tape. LOTS of teflon tape. I'm pretty sure I'll be going back to replace them with.. something.
I use a spud wrench to install the spuds, and have installed quite a few on other closets with no problem.With these though no matter how tight I get it, the spud pops out. Also tried a "loose" install, thinking maybe I had them too tight, which leaked just before it popped out. After fussing with this last one for an hour, I "out of ordered" it and left.
Anybody else have this problem, or hear of it?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

LMAO. I just had this same thing happen on a not so old Eljer. I just replaced the toilet.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Little Mighty Putty should do the trick.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Did you toss the old spuds? If not you might look at the height of the rubber old vs new. Its usually not the brass but the rubber. I have had good luck cleaning the old rubbers up and using them on new brass.

Also look for a nub in the area just below where the spud sinks in, I have ran into a few where the brass spud hits the porcelain and kits out as it is tightened. 

Good luck


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

13/4 urinal spud.Old puppies.


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## pipefighter (Sep 26, 2009)

I was hoping there was a trade secret I hadn't learned yet, but I guess I'll have to replace the w/c's as they leak. Hope the city don't go broke...


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

http://www.thefind.com/search?query=urinal+spud+1+3/4


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## pipefighter (Sep 26, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> 13/4 urinal spud.Old puppies.


Hey Richard... that may do it. Now if I can find them anywhere local..


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

pipefighter said:


> Hey Richard... that may do it. Now if I can find them anywhere....


 
move 3 spaces upwards and there is the link


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> 13/4 urinal spud.Old puppies.



Match your old spud with the new ones and you will know.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

A wall hung AS with seat can be purchased for less than $130


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Are you putting pipe dope on the rubber, this will cause them to pop off.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> A wall hung AS with seat can be purchased for less than $130


 Didn't he say they were floor mounted? Just gotta see if they're 10" or 12" rough. Most AS. flushometers are 10" rough, in my experiences. Gonna have to change to a 1.6 GPF sloan kit too, if he changes toilet. No big deal, I know.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Buildup in the bowl orifices can also pop spuds!


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## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> Buildup in the bowl orifices can also pop spuds!


yea check the jets... had the same type of problem.. found a peice of porcelain in the main jet.. was called out for a poor flush and dripping toilet.. killed to birds with one (porcelain) stone i guees you could say:laughing:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Didn't he say they were floor mounted? Just gotta see if they're 10" or 12" rough. Most AS. flushometers are 10" rough, in my experiences. Gonna have to change to a 1.6 GPF sloan kit too, if he changes toilet. No big deal, I know.


You are correct on the floor mount. Still, a good quality toilet can be purchased for that as well. I think I bought a Toto 1.6/1.28 for about that same price from HD supply before they were bought out. WB sells the kits for about $16.50 for the drop in, VB, Handle kit, and o-ring. The rough in doesn't much matter as long as its at least 9" off the wall you can make it work. Toto's spud is a little further back on the toilet so it may not be the toilet of choice. Everyone else that I can think of is exactly the same. Zurn makes one hell of a floor mounted flush valve toilet.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> You are correct on the floor mount. Still, a good quality toilet can be purchased for that as well. I think I bought a Toto 1.6/1.28 for about that same price from HD supply before they were bought out. WB sells the kits for about $16.50 for the drop in, VB, Handle kit, and o-ring. The rough in doesn't much matter as long as its at least 9" off the wall you can make it work. Toto's spud is a little further back on the toilet so it may not be the toilet of choice. Everyone else that I can think of is exactly the same. Zurn makes one hell of a floor mounted flush valve toilet.


 The rough in matters, if you don't want to have to shut off main water, & have to lenghthen or shorten the supply, coming out of wall. Then it gets costly.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> The rough in matters, if you don't want to have to shut off main water, & have to lenghthen or shorten the supply, coming out of wall. Then it gets costly.


They are all the same rough in dimensions when it comes to top spuds (10")...at least I have never seen a different one. Then again, I had never seen a 1-3/4" closet spud until today.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> They are all the same rough in dimensions when it comes to top spuds (10")...at least I have never seen a different one. Then again, I had never seen a 1-3/4" closet spud until today.


 Just gotta make sure spud is 6" off center of closet bolts. In other words, if the bolts are exactly 10" from back wall, then spud should be 4". Your right, I don't think AS makes a 12" rough flushometer toilet, only 10", but I know Kohler makes a 12" rough.

http://m.americanstandard-us.com/assets/documents/amstd/spec/SpecSheet_4450.pdf


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Just gotta make sure spud is 6" off center of closet bolts. In other words, if the bolts are exactly 10" from back wall, then spud should be 4". Your right, I don't think AS makes a 12" rough flushometer toilet, only 10", but I know Kohler makes a 12" rough.
> 
> http://m.americanstandard-us.com/assets/documents/amstd/spec/SpecSheet_4450.pdf


Because of you I am second guessing myself.:laughing:
The 10" rough is all that anyone has around here and I have used different brands to get from 9" from the wall to as far out as 13". I am by no means saying you are wrong, or arguing for that matter:thumbsup:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Gettinit said:


> They are all the same rough in dimensions when it comes to top spuds (10")...at least I have never seen a different one. Then again, I had never seen a 1-3/4" closet spud until today.


I've seen plenty of Rheem 14" rough top spud toilets, an entire 50 story high rise worth of them.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> Because of you I am second guessing myself.:laughing:
> The 10" rough is all that anyone has around here and I have used different brands to get from 9" from the wall to as far out as 13". I am by no means saying you are wrong, or arguing for that matter:thumbsup:


 Not arguing here either, just saying, that if that top spud don't end up in the exact same location, as the old toilet, then the job gets way more involved, when you got to move the water line, so the sloan valve will line up. Was just telling the OP to double check that, cuz a simple toilet replacement, will turn into alot more work, if the specs on new toilet, differ from old. 

I do work at an old school, & most of the flushometer toilets there, are 12" rough. If I put a 10" Madera in there, the top spud gonna be 2" off center.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Not arguing here either, just saying, that if that top spud don't end up in the exact same location, as the old toilet, then the job gets way more involved, when you got to move the water line, so the sloan valve will line up. Was just telling the OP to double check that, cuz a simple toilet replacement, will turn into alot more work, if the specs on new toilet, differ from old.
> 
> I do work at an old school, & most of the flushometer toilets there, are 12" rough. If I put a 10" Madera in there, the top spud gonna be 2" off center.


You are right. That's why I mentioned the Toto...even their 10" rough in toilet, the spud is off compared to standard toilets.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> You are right. That's why I mentioned the Toto...even their 10" rough in toilet, the spud is off compared to standard toilets.


 Yea, not much today is "American", or "Standard".


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## pipefighter (Sep 26, 2009)

*Thanx all*

It seems the 1-3/4" urinal spud takes a 1-1/4" inlet tube, so that won't work.
The old spuds were pipe doped, which apparently worked for 10 years. Too close to being a "rig" for me, so I'll be changing a few w/c's in the next few days...
Thanx to all who replied. It's good to have pro's to knock this stuff around with.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

pipefighter said:


> It seems the 1-3/4" urinal spud takes a 1-1/4" inlet tube, so that won't work.
> The old spuds were pipe doped, which apparently worked for 10 years. Too close to being a "rig" for me, so I'll be changing a few w/c's in the next few days...
> Thanx to all who replied. It's good to have pro's to knock this stuff around with.


You can get 1-1/4" tubes. I ordered some awhile back.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Airgap said:


> You can get 1-1/4" tubes. I ordered some awhile back.


They're stocked locally here at The Parts Works.


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## pipefighter (Sep 26, 2009)

The f/o takes 1-1/2" tubes though. And I doubt I'll find an old urinal f/o. Easier to change the w/c's and not have to diddle with the problem again


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

pipefighter said:


> The f/o takes 1-1/2" tubes though. And I doubt I'll find an old urinal f/o. Easier to change the w/c's and not have to diddle with the problem again


Tailpieces are generally interchangeable.


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