# Firestop/fire protection questions



## paluskaplumbing (Jan 20, 2017)

Hey! I'm looking for some insight on firestop caulk or collars. I've just done my best looking through 300+ page PDFs on 3m and hilti's websites but I'm getting lost. I run a small shop with my dad and we don't do a ton of commercial and certainly not a building with 8" concrete floors. What is the best way to find out which type of firestop I will need for my PVC penetrations through the floors, as well as the copper penetrations. It sounds like maybe I will need the collars for PVC but can anyone confirm that? Or does this all have more to do with my local code? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

You need to see the drawings and they should list the "rating" of the penetration. Then confer with the manufacture you want to use to see what they have that is listed (hour rating) for the penetration required. UL does have a list of "pre-approved" assemblies.

The key is to find what is required (should be specced out by Architect), the drawings may even give of list of "approved materials", if they have that do not vary unless signed off by Architect. If not listed then just look up the listed rating from any manufacture and install as required.

http://www.ul.com/code-authorities/building-code/fire-resistance-and-smoke-protection/

http://www.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/FR-assembly-searches.pdf


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## Eddy k (Jan 30, 2015)

On bid work my proposals state this bid excludes all methods of fire stopping. General usually picks it up for all subs.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Call the hilti Rep. They will come, take notes and have their engineers tell you which system to use. Don't guess. If the place burns and the fire stop doesn't perform as expected your on the hook if you shot from the hip. 

Also, My AHJ wants their submittals for their files.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Toli said:


> Call the hilti Rep. They will come, take notes and have their engineers tell you which system to use. Don't guess. If the place burns and the fire stop doesn't perform as expected your on the hook if you shot from the hip.
> 
> Also, My AHJ wants their submittals for their files.


Before an sales rep comments. The design professional (architect) should have required this and have it listed. Depending on the building type, materials stored, adjoined buildings, building classifications, egress, the code compliant aspects may change.

If your Architect does not have it specified, tell them to do so. Then have a sales rep submit to you what the design professional required. If not, in litigation sales reps don't mean squat. Licensed design professional do.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

That's a better way of saying it. Hilti Rep will have their design pro design it to anyone's specs. 

Just did this in a 1900 era warehouse. No architect. Building Dept told me what they wanted, hilti designed it. 

You did a better job of saying what I was trying to get across.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Absolutely this should be described on the plans.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Toli said:


> That's a better way of saying it. Hilti Rep will have their design pro design it to anyone's specs.
> 
> Just did this in a 1900 era warehouse. No architect. Building Dept told me what they wanted, hilti designed it.
> 
> You did a better job of saying what I was trying to get across.


TX

No insult intended at all. I have just seen many issues with contractors & subs not exactly following print spec changes without prior approval bite them in the butt.

Can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull sh**..........:whistling2:


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

So let me get this straight... we not only have to protect the health of the nation, but now we have to keep them from burning up too???


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I added a clause to my contracts stating that "Any and all piping, fixtures, receptacles and appurtenances that require fireproofing, fire-caulking and/or fire-related installations shall be supplied and installed by a contractor other than" my company.

On one re-model the GC called me up after I failed a 2nd rough inspection telling me that I needed a fire collar on pvc shower riser in a slab. So I had to scramble to get that in order to pass my inspection. Hence the clause.


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## paluskaplumbing (Jan 20, 2017)

Thanks for the information everyone. I've talked to the building inspector and some other local plumbers. I don't know for sure but it sounds like if anything it will just be a caulking required, no collars, since there is no factory, warehouse, or restaurant in the building. There's only a few offices. But in the future I am definitely going to just write in a clause making the GC take care of it.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

paluskaplumbing said:


> Thanks for the information everyone. I've talked to the building inspector and some other local plumbers. I don't know for sure but it sounds like if anything it will just be a caulking required, no collars, since there is no factory, warehouse, or restaurant in the building. There's only a few offices. But in the future I am definitely going to just write in a clause making the GC take care of it.


I somewhat agree about the clause. Bigger contractors won't care since they may have this listed under the Plumbing Contractor, so it wouldn't matter, you would still need the pass from the Architect. Consider subbing it out. There are specialty companies that do just this and adding it to your bids, if you can't separate it out of the contract.

Just an FYI, if it is "PVC" pipe the only approved methods are "Crush Collars", just sealing around the PVC won't do it. It is still highly flammable. The crush collar contains intumescent material surrounded by steel. If a fire starts and burns away the PVC exposing the opening this material is like the Old "snake" fireworks and expands against the steel to close the hole re-establishing the rating.

Now a smoke partition is another animal then yes sealing around pipe is fine.


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