# moen positemp



## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

Have an older positemp that the cartridge is frozen in. would really like to change cartridge versus replace faucet because there is no access in tile wall and it is also my cousins house (translation, this is for free). Any idea's or tricks for removal?


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

A good Moen cartridge puller. I have had them break, and then pulled them out piece by piece, but a catridge puller usually does the trick.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The trick is to get that Moen cartridge moving side to side first, THEN pull back. It's frozen and you must rotate it side to side first. For example, that little plastic piece that comes in bag w/ Moen 1222B cartridge that you probably throw away, I use that w/ a crescent wrench to rotate old cartridge in valve body. Once that is able to rotate in valve body side to side, then try to pull it out towards you. If center comes out only, then what I've done is use a drill with 1/2" bit. That will rotate what's left in valve body. Careful not to damage valve body.


----------



## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks, will try. worst I could do is break it


----------



## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

On a posi-temp you have to rotate 180 deg. first so the o rings dont catch on the hot and cold inlet ports.:thumbsup:


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

How would turning an O-ring help? :blink:




PLUMB TIME said:


> On a posi-temp you have to rotate 180 deg. first so the o rings dont catch on the hot and cold inlet ports.:thumbsup:


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Here is a much better tool. It works the same as the previous tool but also has the capability to remove the outer portion if the core pulls out. :yes: OOPS just noticed it said posi temp cartridge. The second part of this tool will not work for those


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Piperat, that tool you posted is JUNK!! I have tried twice to use them and broke both tools while leaving the cartridge body in the valve. A correctly sized EZ-out has worked every time. Of course, we're both talking 1200 series and not positemp.







Paul


----------



## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

1st tool on the thread is the best, i have both but not very successful with the 2nd one, it usually will bend the ears trying to twist it, sometimes times they comes out whole, if the shell is stuck in there rocksteady is on the money with an ez out, i have one cut down to size and has never let me down, also i use a 3/4 fitting brush to clean out the valvebody (not positemp though) srry


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Wow suprised to hear you guys had trouble with the tool. I have literally pulled a few hundred of them and never failed. Some pretty ignorant ones too. Yes sometimes you couldn't spin the cartridge first too loosen it up because it was frozen that bad and the ears would bend. In that case I would just pull out the center core, insert the tool and done deal. Worked for me. I wonder if maybe there are knockoff brands that were made cheaply, I literally abused this tool and it never failed.


----------



## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Protech said:


> How would turning an O-ring help? :blink:


 
Mainly, turning just breaks it free, but I there are those large rubber "gizmos" on the sides of the cartridge ( not the o-ring), and I could see that moving them 90º might eliminate a potential snag.


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

On a Posi-temp it's those big rubber "gizmos" that swell up and jam themselves in the hot and colt ports. When it gets really bad, the cartridge is STUCK. I've never had one that I coudln't get out but I have pulled a few out in dozens of pieces. I love bringing back a bag of platic pieces to the supply house to exchange for a new cartidge. :thumbup:





Paul


----------



## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

grandpa said:


> Mainly, turning just breaks it free, but I there are those large rubber "gizmos" on the sides of the cartridge ( not the o-ring), and I could see that moving them 90º might eliminate a potential snag.





Protech said:


> How would turning an O-ring help? :blink:


My bad, I meant the rectangular rubberized gasket material found on each side of said cartridge that would, if not careful, become lodged in posi-temp valve hot/cold ports.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

rocksteady said:


> On a Posi-temp it's those big rubber "gizmos" that swell up and jam themselves in the hot and colt ports. When it gets really bad, the cartridge is STUCK. I've never had one that I coudln't get out but I have pulled a few out in dozens of pieces. I love bringing back a bag of platic pieces to the supply house to exchange for a new cartidge. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Paul


 And I have been throwing old Moen parts in trash.


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Lifetime guaranty. :thumbsup: I take all my old Moen stuff back to my supply house and get free replacements. Some places don't like to deal with it though.





Paul


----------



## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

It gets really interesting when someone has broken off the Posi stem. Ouch! It's very difficult to drill out without harming the valve body, particularly because of the center stainless core. I did it once, don't look forward to doing it again.

Around here, we have hard water and I used to often pull the core out of the old brass cartridges. Then I'd use the #2 tool above and twist and bend it in the cartridge and neither was coming out. Once it got to the point where I wrecked every tool I used, I decided to not use them anymore.

Before the newer plastic cartridges came out, Moen used to package removal instructions that involved using a tap and a piece of hardwood dowel. First, tap the remainder of the cartridge body, then put the dowel in and rethread the tap in, forcing the cartridge out. Ha. Like that ever worked. Usually, the dowel would just smoosh.

Sometimes, the only recourse is to replace the valve.

I've had more problems with Moen basin faucets because when you try to twist the cartridge the interior copper tubes just bend.

I didn't have any problems with the newer plastic cartridges until recently - now they're also getting old enough to be troublesome to remove. I've had the bottom half of cartridges snap off inside the barrel of the faucet.

Kitchen sink faucets can be difficult, but I usually don't have nearly as many problems with them as I do with tubs and basins. The Moen tool #1 above is normally all I need for Posi-temp valves. Often, I have to use probes* or water pressure to get the pieces of rubber out of the ports before installing the new cartridge.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

heat fixes everything


----------



## Mega Smash (Oct 9, 2009)

I've heard (but not yet tried) that a squirt of hairspray unsticks stubborn cartridges.

I have used the #1 tool a few times, with great success.


----------



## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

We don't have a lot of Moen but the 1st one that was stuck for me was on a 8 unit apartment. Oh man what a pain.


----------



## rrman (Oct 29, 2008)

*2nd year aprentice*

I use 1st tool,also spray with liquid wrench .Reinstall w/ Faucette grease.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Piperat said:


> Wow suprised to hear you guys had trouble with the tool. I have literally pulled a few hundred of them and never failed. Some pretty ignorant ones too. Yes sometimes you couldn't spin the cartridge first too loosen it up because it was frozen that bad and the ears would bend. In that case I would just pull out the center core, insert the tool and done deal. Worked for me. I wonder if maybe there are knockoff brands that were made cheaply, I literally abused this tool and it never failed.


Same for me...The one I had in my truck 15 years ago is still on one of our trucks.


----------



## jitr64 (Sep 30, 2010)

I have changed out literally hundreds of positemp cartridges,discovered a trick by accident,for example a homeowner has tried unsucessfully to remove the cartridge and broke off the tabs and the stem.these can easily be removed by taking a drywall screw and screwing it into the body about 3/8 of an inch from where the stem used to be,as the screw goes in it bottoms out on the balancing spool then as you tighten it it will start to draw the plastic housing out to the point you can grab it with a pair of channel locks ,hope this helps.


----------



## troyhector (Oct 17, 2012)

*Your tip saved me time and money...*



jitr64 said:


> I have changed out literally hundreds of positemp cartridges,discovered a trick by accident,for example a homeowner has tried unsucessfully to remove the cartridge and broke off the tabs and the stem.these can easily be removed by taking a drywall screw and screwing it into the body about 3/8 of an inch from where the stem used to be,as the screw goes in it bottoms out on the balancing spool then as you tighten it it will start to draw the plastic housing out to the point you can grab it with a pair of channel locks ,hope this helps.


jitr64: Your tip about the drywall screw was brilliant. I was removing the Moen cartridge and ended up breaking it into about four pieces. After trying to remove it for more than an hour and getting mad as heck, I calmed down and read this blog...and found your great tip. MUCH THANKS!!!


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

PLUMB TIME said:


> On a posi-temp you have to rotate 180 deg. first so the o rings dont catch on the hot and cold inlet ports.:thumbsup:


I think you mean 90.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Heat the valve body first. That will soften the cartridge. Then remove with puller while still warm.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

troyhector said:


> jitr64: Your tip about the drywall screw was brilliant. I was removing the Moen cartridge and ended up breaking it into about four pieces. After trying to remove it for more than an hour and getting mad as heck, I calmed down and read this blog...and found your great tip. MUCH THANKS!!!


Oh thanks jitr. You just cost a plumber somewhere money. Why is this forum not viewable to members only?


----------



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> Oh thanks jitr. You just cost a plumber somewhere money. Why is this forum not viewable to members only?


lol, you serious?


----------



## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

*Moen positemp problems?*

Put a vice grip close to the body on the brass stem and use a screwdriver to un-wedge it from the left or right side, not the top or bottom.


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

KoleckeINC said:


> Put a vice grip close to the body on the brass stem and use a screwdriver to un-wedge it from the left or right side, not the top or bottom.


 
The first puller posted is less than 30 bucks. I've seen tons of valves damaged by plumbers and homeowners that have tried all sorts of "tricks" to get a cartridge out. Sometimes the valve can be salvaged, sometimes it can't. A professional plumber should not have vice grips or screw drivers in his hand to pull a cartridge unless it's already broken and the puller won't work. At that point, you do what you have to but until then, the cartrige puller is all you need.








Paul


----------



## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> The first puller posted is less than 30 bucks. I've seen tons of valves damaged by plumbers and homeowners that have tried all sorts of "tricks" to get a cartridge out. Sometimes the valve can be salvaged, sometimes it can't. A professional plumber should not have vice grips or screw drivers in his hand to pull a cartridge unless it's already broken and the puller won't work. At that point, you do what you have to but until then, the cartrige puller is all you need.
> 
> Paul


I agree. The puller has worked for me at least 95% of the time.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

From the desk of our esteemed member Plumber_Bill....

http://parrsplumbing.blogspot.com/

How about when you have to repair a Moen tub faucet Legend -- the balance spool is jammed. You insert a big screwdriver in the slot and the little cap comes off in your hand. Now you have a balance spool stuck inside the faucet with almost no way of grabbing it. Unless ... you have one of these in your toolbox.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Ive been getting some Moen Valves with Brass Cartridges , I havent asked my supply house about it yet , anyone else seen these yet?


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I have seen those. I don't know the specific applications but I'd suspect it has something to do with water quality. I do now that they aren't covered under the lifetime warranty, only the plastic ones. Same as the metal 1200.








Paul


----------



## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Ona makes a tool to remove the old cartriges. Its saved me tons of headaches when the center comes out. But on the posi temp..only had one where the homeowner drove 5 drywall screws in to it and the body. Had to install a new valve. What was crazy Moen sent them a new valve for me to install. All the rest i have never had a issue removing it,,,may have gotten lucky so far!


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Hate the pos posti temp valves... MOENTROL all the way..


----------



## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> The first puller posted is less than 30 bucks. I've seen tons of valves damaged by plumbers and homeowners that have tried all sorts of "tricks" to get a cartridge out. Sometimes the valve can be salvaged, sometimes it can't. A professional plumber should not have vice grips or screw drivers in his hand to pull a cartridge unless it's already broken and the puller won't work. At that point, you do what you have to but until then, the cartrige puller is all you need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope, Vice grips all the way. Puller is another useless dusty tool in your too heavy to carry bag. I just saved you 30$


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

KoleckeINC said:


> Nope, Vice grips all the way. Puller is another useless dusty tool in your too heavy to carry bag. I just saved you 30$


If Moen wasn't king of the market here, I might agree with you since I really don't like single purpose tools. Mine never gets dusty but my Vice Grips do.  I'm going to a call in about an hour where I'll be pulling a Moen cartridge and it'll come out nice and easy with my fancy pancy puller. :thumbup:







Paul


----------



## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

victoryplbaz said:


> Ona makes a tool to remove the old cartriges. Its saved me tons of headaches when the center comes out. But on the posi temp..only had one where the homeowner drove 5 drywall screws in to it and the body. Had to install a new valve. What was crazy Moen sent them a new valve for me to install. All the rest i have never had a issue removing it,,,may have gotten lucky so far!


Great tool to own!


----------



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

KoleckeINC said:


> Nope, Vice grips all the way. Puller is another useless dusty tool in your too heavy to carry bag. I just saved you 30$


Try $13 at depot.


----------



## Nandwrock (Nov 14, 2012)

*Positemp*

Worst case scenario you could melted out with a torch. It's going to smell bad. You might keep the fire extinguisher handy too


----------



## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

the problem i find is the rubber washers (the big oval shaped ones) tend to tear and get stuck in the valve body.. so i tend to turn them 90 degrees also b4 i try to pull them out hell if its super duper stuck take a torch to it.. as long as you dont F*** up the valve body a new cartrige will slide right in


----------



## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Pipe Rat said:


> Wow suprised to hear you guys had trouble with the tool. I have literally pulled a few hundred of them and never failed. Some pretty ignorant ones too. Yes sometimes you couldn't spin the cartridge first too loosen it up because it was frozen that bad and the ears would bend. In that case I would just pull out the center core, insert the tool and done deal. Worked for me. I wonder if maybe there are knockoff brands that were made cheaply, I literally abused this tool and it never failed.



They do make some crap ones in that style but I love mine. Did a two man pull to get one out, the guy would not be beat by it so would NOT use his torch. If it held both us fat guys pulling on it it must have been good. :laughing:


----------



## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

Pipe Rat said:


> Wow suprised to hear you guys had trouble with the tool. I have literally pulled a few hundred of them and never failed. Some pretty ignorant ones too. Yes sometimes you couldn't spin the cartridge first too loosen it up because it was frozen that bad and the ears would bend. In that case I would just pull out the center core, insert the tool and done deal. Worked for me. I wonder if maybe there are knockoff brands that were made cheaply, I literally abused this tool and it never failed.


Well I only seen knock off brands that's why I never purchased one. I have two of first tool and I got it from Moen


----------



## Rotorooter1277 (Jul 8, 2012)

The posi temp tool works great, but in a pinch I've drilled them out and replaced them. Just have to be careful and take your time


----------



## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

I've had plenty of plastic positemp cartridges fail to come out. when the stems break off, I get out my drill and a 3/8" drill bit. I drill right into the stem, and around the plastic. Then, the guts come out and all you have now is the plastic case. Using a very small flathead screwdriver, and alot of patience, I insert screwdriver between valve body and plastic case, and just break it away, a little piece at a time. I haven't gouged one yet. And remember, before you can rotate a positemp, you HAVE to break those tabs off cartridge. I think alot of them get stuck because when they were installed they didn't pull the cartrdige before soldering.


----------

