# What do you think when customers say...



## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

Hi fellow Pz'ers, frustrating week for me. But anyways...... what are your thoughts when a customer says "If I had time, I would do it myself" when inquiring about services? Or describe it as "Should be an easy job". I admit that it irks me at times when i hear this. It seems as if they are downplaying what the job entails in hopes of getting a cheap price. What is your take when you hear these lines? How do you handle things when you hear this? Do you have any comebacks when a customers says this to you? Thoughts and opinions please. Thanks in advance for responding. Hope you all have a great weekend by the way!!


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I nod my head and agree with them, then do the job and charge the norm.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Customer

" it should only take about 5 minutes" 

Me

Yes ma'am , we charge a minimum 95 dollars an hour plus parts. We also have a one time service fee of 35 dollars.

Customer

But it will only take a few minutes cause the last guy did it in like 10

Me

Ok ma'am, if it takes ten minutes then your total bill will be 130.00 would you like me to schedule something for this evening or in morning

Customer

Let me ask my husband. We will call back

Me 

Thank you.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

justin said:


> Customer
> 
> " it should only take about 5 minutes"
> 
> ...


 95 per hour but whats the service fee for is that for new customers


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

lol love it when customers tell me it's not a big or hard job!

And they have no clue how to do it, or the knowledge to know how it all goes together!

Maybe you should ask to borrow some tools when your doing the job.....ask if he has 32" pipe wrenches..

Just smile!


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

revenge said:


> 95 per hour but whats the service fee for is that for new customers


Gas , ins. Workers comp, bs , oil, tires, uniforms, etc.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

See I work out.of a price manual with set pricing for almost every job possible. We charge a service fee of 89 bucks but waive if we get the job


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Upfront pricing.

Do you want to leave it and take a chance or would you like me to take care of it before it causes you a challenge?


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

Yep I like that approach. I guess you.kinda get them by the balls


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

justin said:


> Gas , ins. Workers comp, bs , oil, tires, uniforms, etc.


 so its always 130 for the first hour


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

justin said:


> Gas , ins. Workers comp, bs , oil, tires, uniforms, etc.


so its always 130 for the first hour


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

If they thought they could do it themselves, or it was so quick and easy your phone would not have called you out. 

People just don't want to be taken advantage of. My response is usually to say something like "Mrs. Smith I will have to look at the problem and find out what is going on, if its easy and quick then you might save some money, but in my experience most plumbing jobs are not quick and easy if you want it done right."


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

revenge said:


> so its always 130 for the first hour


Yessir


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

how that work for you justin any nagging ho or customers


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

revenge said:


> how that work for you justin any nagging ho or customers


If you charge the correct price then you will always have a few who nag. If noone nagged then I would probably be unsuccessful and not be able to pay my 4 million liab. Ins , workers comp, Feed my 4 kids , house payment. My customers have nice things and can call me out , so why shouldn't I charge accordingly for the professional services I offer. I like nice things. 
Had a guy yesterday call us out and said he had to have gas back on that day. Had a leak and gas provider turned it off until it was fixed. Really old system and all hacked up copper. Told him that if we chased leaks that it would be time plus materials and that I didn't know how long it would take , but that if we replaced it that we could get it on in a few hours. He went with new system. I charge 545.00 per opening for stainless steel. We did it in like 3 hours and gas company turned gas on that night and he was all happy. Gave him a bill for 1635.00 . He gave me check but called today and wanted an itemized list. I asked why and he said he feels he was overcharged. 

Well FUQ ME!!! He associates how long it took us compared to price. If it would have took 6 hours to run black pipe would he have complained? I think not. 

I am still thinking what to write on list. I may just write him an email explaining that we charge that much per drop whether it's a 1500 square foot house or a 3000 square foot house. 

You know guys ,One set price is how I do it . I will not change cause I am not gonna buy 700 dollars worth of material and install it for 300. Hell no!! 

This system is warranties for 2 years and it has my name on it. I am not building something that lasts a lifetime for crumbs.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

was that the price up front


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

My price must be really good because all the customers complain...

Its to the point I don't even hear it any more...... Blah.. blah ..blah..

Is that cash or credit card...

I only got a few more years in this trade and I no longer care... I am going to make the most money possible......

My whole intention is to charge up the wazoo .... collect it all....

Its not like they see a plumber every day......


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

revenge said:


> was that the price up front


Yes, but he had his brother calling . He didnt feel he needed to call us. Brother new and gave green light. After we were done he smiled and said thanks . Guess he got gas back on and forgot how bad it was for three days without it. Let's nickel and dime the plumber for doing a food job. 

Sometimes situations are just crazy. I have had only two complaints in two years and I am thinking about doing like the big boys and having a work contract signed before all jobs. , no matter how small or big. 

Most people. Want to hug us or praise us , but it is usually a few that forget about the prompt service they received. 

I ain't really sweating it. I will probably tell him if he was worried then he should of not had his brother take care of his business. It's stupid.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

tell them if you believe it so easy do it yourself then bill them


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

To whom were the complaints filed with, Justin?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

My rate for the first hour is more than Justin's. Mark's Parts is an expensive place to buy parts.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> To whom were the complaints filed with, Justin?


Me........


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> My rate for the first hour is more than Justin's. Mark's Parts is an expensive place to buy parts.


Yes but it's just for faucet parts . I would never buy regular supplies from them.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

It doesn't matter any more the end of the world is coming soon....


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

justin said:


> Me........



Gotcha!


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> It doesn't matter any more the end of the world is coming soon....


I know and I am saving up and charging out the wazoo !! I haven't been to Disney world and I'm 37 years old.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Gotcha!


I am just slow. What does that mean.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

justin said:


> I know and I am saving up and charging out the wazoo !! I haven't been to Disney world and I'm 37 years old.


I have never been there either I wonder if there is enough time left for me to book a trip


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I have been wondering what is the prefered method of charging your customer

Is it.... up the wazoo or out the wazoo


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I have never been there either I wonder if there is enough time left for me to book a trip


Let me do a few more gas jobs and I will buy you a ticket.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I have been wondering what is the prefered method of charging your customer
> 
> Is it.... up the wazoo or out the wazoo


It's actually right IN the wazoo.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

justin said:


> It's actually right IN the wazoo.


Hmmm

choices... up... in or out...

now I got three ways for them to pay..

Mame would you like your your bill up... in or out the wazoo...


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I think "one of these days I'm really gonna unload on a customer and let 'em have it but good."

What I would like to say is "Must be nice to be rich! If I could do it myself, I would save the money."

I think some say it to psyche you out of charging the right price.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> I think "one of these days I'm really gonna unload on a customer and let 'em have it but good."
> 
> What I would like to say is "Must be nice to be rich! If I could do it myself, I would save the money."
> 
> I think some say it to psyche you out of charging the right price.


what are you waiting for PC...

I tell the customer the way it is...

If they don't like it big deal... so what if the feel stupid or got their feelings hurt... hopefully I never see or hear from them again :laughing:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> what are you waiting for PC...
> 
> I tell the customer the way it is...
> 
> If they don't like it big deal... so what if the feel stupid or got their feelings hurt... hopefully I never see or hear from them again :laughing:


Honestly Oldschool, when I am angry, I'm not as concerned with their feelings. (Though I would feel bad later).

What stops me is the thought of how it may impact the company and future work.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

justin said:


> Yes but it's just for faucet parts . I would never buy regular supplies from them.



They are a great source for Bradley parts also.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> Honestly Oldschool, when I am angry, I'm not as concerned with their feelings. (Though I would feel bad later).
> 
> What stops me is the thought of how it may impact the company and future work.


Thats what i use to think

Now I know that I was wrong


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## Dan (Nov 29, 2011)

Old school...sounds like repeat customers aren't a priority for you? What about word of mouth? How do you keep your phones ringing....I would love to copy your strategy.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Wow almost everyone has brought price into the equation without the customer actually bring price to the conversation. The second most popular response is too making it tougher than it really is.

Let us start looking at this from a different point of view. Translate this like this
“If I had more time I would do this myself= I know this is tougher than I think and if I had l all day I would try to do this myself. I understand that you can do this in less time than I could with less time running after parts. That is what happened the last time I tackled something I was not very good at”.

Stop making it about price. 
If it is that tough for you let me get someone who can do it easier. 

Charlie Greer has a great response that I have added a little more to it; I hope you will not hold it against me that I have done this, thousands of times and sadly you’re right it won’t take too much time at all. 

Tell a story when you thought the same way and what you discovered after you started whatever it was that you did. Or tell a story when a customer did do the job and what you had to do to fix the job.They will relate to the story

My best response is; John what does that mean? Let them tell you what it means and then you will discover exactly why they are not attempting to do the job themselves and drive that point home with him or her. They will tell you how many trips it took to complete the job and how much time they wasted to get the job done.

When they have told you, now is the time to spout off about your experience, having the knowledge to fix the issue and having the truck with the parts and the speed to complete the job.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Thats what i use to think
> 
> Now I know that I was wrong


 
If I agreed with you we both would be wrong.:laughing:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Dan said:


> Old school...sounds like repeat customers aren't a priority for you? What about word of mouth? How do you keep your phones ringing....I would love to copy your strategy.


Customers come and go.....

Most people will never call a plumber in their entire life

Some people might see a plumber 2-3 times in their life time

Then there is a handful that call a plumber 2 -3 times a year

That is residential service ... Always chasing that new customer

That why we stick to the commercial customer as our primary customer

Residential Service calls are for slow day and fillers

Lots of our residential customers work at the commercial places we work at.. So they call us when the need service at their homes

So my advice to you would be to chase the commercial work and the residential work just tags along with it


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Wow almost everyone has brought price into the equation without the customer actually bring price to the conversation. The second most popular response is too making it tougher than it really is.
> 
> Let us start looking at this from a different point of view. Translate this like this
> “If I had more time I would do this myself= I know this is tougher than I think and if I had l all day I would try to do this myself.




Your correct, the statement could have been made for any number of reasons. However, when customers continually inquire about price / cost, it's a fair assumption money has something to do with it.

1. Job is sold, customer is ready, then when you are finished the job faster than they anticipated - ***.00? you were only here __________. Customers do equate time with money, as they should.

2. How much do you charge an hour?

3. Will you charge me to come out and give me a price?

4. My friend had another plumber do it for ***.00.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

WyeFortyFive - I thought of a few responses to the 5 minute, easy job scenario.

"We schedule one hour blocks of time. I hope it is an easy / 5 minute job that way I can sit and socialize with you for a while. I like two sugars in my coffee." 

"I'm up for an easy job. No worries though, even if it takes 20 or 40 minutes, the price will be the same."

"Buying $10,000.00 worth of tools has saved me so much time. It's amazing what having the right tool will do for you."


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Phat Cat said:


> I think "one of these days I'm really gonna unload on a customer and let 'em have it but good."


I think I might have several times... :laughing:

The response to the "It's only a small job and I could have done it myself" is "Then why the heck did you call me and waste my time and gas!" 

The response to "???? said they would do it for only $###.##." is "You should have had them do it, they screwed up on the quote and didn't charge enough. Call us when you want their work fixed."

Either way they usually end up chasing me to the truck and if I do go back in it's at my price... :laughing:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> Your correct, the statement could have been made for any number of reasons. However, when customers continually inquire about price / cost, it's a fair assumption money has something to do with it.
> 
> 1. Job is sold, customer is ready, then when you are finished the job faster than they anticipated - ***.00? you were only here __________. Customers do equate time with money, as they should.
> 
> ...


Why do you care. This informs me that the ability to be different cannot be explained effectively and there is no difference between you and Joe's down the street.

These are very basic objections that can easily be incorporated into reasons to use you over the next guy. I love going up against a person that will use price as a reason to do the work or operates their businesson on price.

Ask yourself why the plumber that did the friend is not there doing the job? The question to ask yourself is why are you there?


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Plumbers perpetuate the myth that price is our existence verse our education, knowledge, experience, and value that is valuable. Once we in the industry change the way we perceive ourselves then and only then can we hope to change the perception the public has of us being a tool for price. 

With the small 5 -15 minute task the plumber rarely informs the customer how fast it will go and not to be surprised. You do this during the upfront information gathering time. I will also bet the house no other option was given to the customer and no thought to ask the customer how they liked their current fixture. The plumber made the decision what to offer and the customer was forced with 2 decisions 1. Fix the problem 2. Tell you to leave. Sure a very small number of people still will complain. I say STOP focusing on the very small percentage of customers that will complain once you start to value yourself more rather than devalue yourself. This person would have complained if you charged them your cost on a wax seal.

Second thing to shift is the attitude that customers are cheap and out to get you. Once a company becomes resentful of the customer an adversarial us against them mentality becomes the norm. Your actions, reactions and responses become combative and defensive. The tone of the conversation is exploited due to voice inflection and is a lose; lose situation for both the company and customer.

Third thing to move away from is explaining price as a price i.e. the overhead. Why tell the customer you have a problem with high overhead? That is not their problem that is your problem that you are now passing over to him or her. If I want to be here tomorrow I must charge this amount to stay in business. I really do not care if you’re in business tomorrow I have the problem today. We must become more creative with reasons why more people use you at the price you require verses defending your price.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I just got off the phone with one customer

He says he needs a new furnace and ductwork

So I give him a price of $ 8,000

He says he got a quote from another company for $ 20,000 for the identical furnace and ductwork 

I told him that he was not paying $ 20,000 for the furnace and ductwork ... What is was paying for was his overhead


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## SimplePlumber (Feb 1, 2012)

wyefortyfive said:


> Hi fellow Pz'ers, frustrating week for me. But anyways...... what are your thoughts when a customer says "If I had time, I would do it myself" when inquiring about services? Or describe it as "Should be an easy job". I admit that it irks me at times when i hear this. It seems as if they are downplaying what the job entails in hopes of getting a cheap price. What is your take when you hear these lines? How do you handle things when you hear this? Do you have any comebacks when a customers says this to you? Thoughts and opinions please. Thanks in advance for responding. Hope you all have a great weekend by the way!!


I just take them at their word that it's an easy job or they can do it themselves...all the while smiling and saying something to the effect of...lets see how easy I can make this for you. 

Situation diffused with the customers ego in tact...


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Why do you care. This informs me that the ability to be different cannot be explained effectively and there is no difference between you and Joe's down the street.
> 
> These are very basic objections that can easily be incorporated into reasons to use you over the next guy. I love going up against a person that will use price as a reason to do the work or operates their businesson on price.
> 
> Ask yourself why the plumber that did the friend is not there doing the job? The question to ask yourself is why are you there?


Richard, in theory, I agree with you. The vast majority of our customers are happy and understand what they are paying for. It's the small percentage that can really wear you out, especially on a down week. 

IMO, as an industry, our time would be better spent focusing on the vast majority by continuing doing what we are doing, because it is working. Why re-invent or re-adjust for the minority? It is time-consuming and kinda sucks the life out of you.

Let's face it, it is a RECESSION still. The majority of our customer base is either in retirement, or damn near close to it. It does become an affordability issue. They are facing medical problems, their own mortality, and they are bit cranky about it too! Their home values dropped significantly, their retirement savings took a huge hit, medical costs are out the wazoo, finding a job near impossible, technology is moving so fast they are overwhelmed, etc. No amount of words will solve their major problems.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> Richard, in theory, I agree with you. The vast majority of our customers are happy and understand what they are paying for. It's the small percentage that can really wear you out, especially on a down week.
> 
> IMO, as an industry, our time would be better spent focusing on the vast majority by continuing doing what we are doing, because it is working. Why re-invent or re-adjust for the minority? It is time-consuming and kinda sucks the life out of you.
> 
> Let's face it, it is a RECESSION still. The majority of our customer base is either in retirement, or damn near close to it. It does become an affordability issue. They are facing medical problems, their own mortality, and they are bit cranky about it too! Their home values dropped significantly, their retirement savings took a huge hit, medical costs are out the wazoo, finding a job near impossible, technology is moving so fast they are overwhelmed, etc. No amount of words will solve their major problems.


 
​“I think "one of these days I'm really gonna unload on a customer and let 'em have it but good."

What I would like to say is "Must be nice to be rich! If I could do it myself, I would save the money."

I think some say it to psyche you out of charging the right price”.


By all means keep on answering and doing it the way you want. 
I would venture to say that most companies can say the vast majority of their customers are happy. The idea is to make more of those customers that are not happy and have them happy and satisfied. I would love it if all of my customers are happy and satisfied and will give my name out. However I know this is impossible; however this will not stop me from discovering more ways to make my customers happy. 

We are not reinventing the wheel just making it round on all sides verse flat on the bottom. Working on your weakness will increase your business and your recession will not be as noticeable to you. Closing 1 more customer that is happy out of 10 will not increase business? What I have found when I work on my weaknesses it helps me strengthen my presentation and solution with all of my customers which increases my overall dollars per ticket.

Believe me I know and understand, close to or in retirement and how the market is affecting customers. I live and work in God’s waiting room. My point is, what do you have to lose giving it a different try then what is already frustrating you? How would any of you feel if this same customer that has spoken those words ends up giving you additional tasks to complete while you are there? Knowing how to answer this little bit of resistance can and will give you additional tasks. I dig it when we can bring in an additional 100 dollars or more per ticket. Not every ticket but a substantial number of tickets will increase to make a huge difference.

I disagree that our time is better spent doing what we are already doing. That is the exactly why our industry is in the shape it is. We did what we do when the times were balls to the walls and we allowed others to creep into our industry and start taking over things we should be doing. Backflows, fire prevention, minor plumbing repairs, and water conditioning to name a few things. Now that the economic times are questionable the industry is trying to take these things back and receiving resistance getting these things back.

The last paragraph is nothing more than an excuse. Tell me why companies are successful and have a fantastic return on their investment especially in the trades? There are all types of businesses growing during this recession. During the boom years companies went out of business and they also claimed their economy was at a fault. We have homes that were valued at 1-2 million and they are now valued at 500 grand -1 mil ,homes valued at 300 grand are less than 100 grand today. You are feeling the exact same thing we all are feeling. I could go on and on but will stop here. This may not help you though I am sure it can help others as it has helped us tremendously.
Sorry I am not picking on you. I am trying to share information that can help those who want to help themselves.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Again we bring it back and allow the discussion to focus on the price and our overhead, the cost of doing business.Learn a different approach to these same old questions. Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results.

I am confused? Should we discuss cost of doing business or is there a better example for answering the cost per hour question?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I have been wondering what is the prefered method of charging your customer
> 
> Is it.... up the wazoo or out the wazoo


 






Or how about, 'up the ying yang'?..........:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Customers come and go.....
> 
> Most people will never call a plumber in their entire life
> 
> ...


 





Very wise advice, I've never heard that before.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> Again we bring it back and allow the discussion to focus on the price and our overhead, the cost of doing business.Learn a different approach to these same old questions. Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results.
> 
> I am confused? Should we discuss cost of doing business or is there a better example for answering the cost per hour question?


 

Deerslayer
 In the case of the op’s topic we are not discussing price. All the customer has stated is; if he had time he would do it himself and it should be easy to do.

Show me where price has been mentioned? The responses to price have been made by the plumber and not the customer. How you practice is how you play. This tells me everyone is immediately bringing that statement to a price qualification. I look at it differently I see that statement as I have already done a job and it took me all day if not 2 and many trips to the store. Seek clarity to the statement and then answer it appropriately try not to guess and add a second piece of resistance or objection.

You can see from EVERYONES response the frustration by making it a price discussion. No one wins in a price discussion. Once we understand the exact reason a person makes the statements they make then it is time to reply. If it is about price and it rarely is, what do they want to compromise on; quality of product, service, warranty, service after the sale. I can drop my price however I must also drop 1 of the 4.

Yep you may have a few that will not align with you however you will pull more over to your side with a solid answer verse justifying and defending the price. Someone added the customer calling in or after the job was done complained and that is called buyer’s remorse and that happens when the upfront work was cut short and no explanation given that it would take very little time at all among other things was not discussed.

 I am out there every day running service so I know exactly how the call is done and mishandled by the service technician. It happens when I think I do not have to follow my system. It is more difficult after the fact than it is prior to completing the job.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Oldschool is in a whole different ballgame than the majority of plumbers in PZ. He is in HVAC and Plumbing, both residential and commercial with his hardcore numbers coming from the commercial aspect. The residential aspect is, I do not care if I get this or not attitude and it is my ball and bat and if you do not play by my rules I’ll leave. Probably one of the few in his area that can do all phases I am not sure if he has any other divisions within his business. His advice is ok if your main interests are not aligned in the residential service area.

Here that strategy would not work as many of the large commercial companies have gone from 100 trucks to 2-5 trucks. One division of the company cannot support a weaker division. Plus commercial plumbers cannot do service work here for some reason.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

wyefortyfive said:


> Hi fellow Pz'ers, frustrating week for me. But anyways...... what are your thoughts when a customer says "If I had time, I would do it myself" when inquiring about services? Or describe it as "Should be an easy job". I admit that it irks me at times when i hear this. It seems as if they are downplaying what the job entails in hopes of getting a cheap price. What is your take when you hear these lines? How do you handle things when you hear this? Do you have any comebacks when a customers says this to you? Thoughts and opinions please. Thanks in advance for responding. Hope you all have a great weekend by the way!!


I don't worry about it. I say "well I'm here to take care of it for you, just lead the way". If it's an older gent standing there I emphasize with them that they can't do what they used too, but that they've earned the right to watch someone else do it for them.

I remember this,,,,,, they called me.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

wyefortyfive said:


> Hi fellow Pz'ers, frustrating week for me. But anyways...... what are your thoughts when a customer says "If I had time, I would do it myself" when inquiring about services? Or describe it as "Should be an easy job". I admit that it irks me at times when i hear this. It seems as if they are downplaying what the job entails in hopes of getting a cheap price. What is your take when you hear these lines? How do you handle things when you hear this? Do you have any comebacks when a customers says this to you? Thoughts and opinions please. Thanks in advance for responding. Hope you all have a great weekend by the way!!


Quite frankly I hear things like that sometimes, mostly "oh my husband could do that except he's too busy". I maintain my professionalism but I don't care what they say I have a job to do, I quote price...they either say yes or no


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Hmmm
> 
> choices... up... in or out...
> 
> ...


Dont forget 'Thru' the wazoo!


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Deerslayer
> In the case of the op’s topic we are not discussing price. All the customer has stated is; if he had time he would do it himself and it should be easy to do.
> 
> Show me where price has been mentioned? The responses to price have been made by the plumber and not the customer. How you practice is how you play. This tells me everyone is immediately bringing that statement to a price qualification. I look at it differently I see that statement as I have already done a job and it took me all day if not 2 and many trips to the store. Seek clarity to the statement and then answer it appropriately try not to guess and add a second piece of resistance or objection.
> ...


 
Thank you I see exactly what your saying and I just realized I already was on your system even though I never thought about it! I never mention price unless asked specifically what the price will be.

When asked why the price is so high per hour how do most handle that diplomatically?


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> “I think "one of these days I'm really gonna unload on a customer and let 'em have it but good."
> 
> What I would like to say is "Must be nice to be rich! If I could do it myself, I would save the money."
> 
> I think some say it to psyche you out of charging the right price”.





> By all means keep on answering and doing it the way you want.


For someone who prides themselves in understanding customer's objections and underlying reasons for what they say, you seem to miss the boat when reading what I post. Tunnel vision? Why am I not afforded the same luxury as your customers?

You quoted my thoughts. Yet your response is directed at my actions, which you didn't even inquire about. Have you stopped to consider that PZ members who post about the difficult customers are only referring to a very small percentage of their client base? 



> The idea is to make more of those customers that are not happy and have them happy and satisfied. . . . impossible; however this will not stop me from discovering more ways to make my customers happy.


If 95% (truthfully, I think the percentage is higher) of our customer base is happy, we must be doing something right. Maybe the 5% are near impossible to please and not worth the extra effort. Personally, I do find it frustrating trying to please the 5%, because only a small percentage of them are won over - hence, the frustration. No matter what you do, no matter how good you are, you will never achieve perfection. 



> Working on your weakness will increase your business and your recession will not be as noticeable to you. Closing 1 more customer that is happy out of 10 will not increase business? What I have found when I work on my weaknesses it helps me strengthen my presentation and solution with all of my customers which increases my overall dollars per ticket.


That is only one philosophy. Personally, I find strength based psychology more rewarding and productive. I'm sure you are familiar with it, but for those who aren't:

A philosophy built on the premise that if you focus on strengthening a weakness, mediocrity is usually achieved. If you focus on a strength, you have the opportunity to achieve greatness. http://www.ifslearning.ac.uk/Alumni...tinmayjune2011/strengthsbasedonpsycology.aspx



> My point is, what do you have to lose giving it a different try then what is already frustrating you?


In my situation, I would have far less frustration if I just dismissed the 'difficult to please' customer. If every plumbing company did the same, maybe the customer would learn to treat others with the respect that they deserve. We are talking about adults here. I am not interested in doing anymore coddling than I already do, it rewards the customer's bad behavior.



> I disagree that our time is better spent doing what we are already doing. That is the exactly why our industry is in the shape it is.


That's over-generalizing. The factors responsible are many. A lot of products came about due to a major labor shortage. So the scales have tipped the other way.



> The last paragraph is nothing more than an excuse. Tell me why companies are successful and have a fantastic return on their investment especially in the trades? There are all types of businesses growing during this recession.


Residential plumbing service is NOT one of those. Manufacturers sales are down. Some companies are doing better, but that is because a lot of businesses went under. Is it because they were doing something better? Or, is it because they had a bit more capital to ride the storm?



> This may not help you though I am sure it can help others as it has helped us tremendously.


You are assuming the plumbing contractor is at fault or misunderstanding the customer. I believe a lot of these customers know exactly what they are doing.



> Sorry I am not picking on you. *BUT* I am trying to share information that can help those who want to help themselves.


Hmmm, all you are missing is the BUT, to completely negate the first part of your statement. I appreciate receiving information to help me help myself. I agree with digging a bit deeper, but not to the extent you do for these customers. Especially when the vast majority of customers are reasonable.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> For someone who prides themselves in understanding customer's objections and underlying reasons for what they say, you seem to miss the boat when reading what I post. Tunnel vision? Why am I not afforded the same luxury as your customers?
> 
> You quoted my thoughts. Yet your response is directed at my actions, which you didn't even inquire about. Have you stopped to consider that PZ members who post about the difficult customers are only referring to a very small percentage of their client base?
> 
> ...


Spend 95% of your time kissing azz of the 5% customer base.... is not a good business plan IMO

Better off using that 95% effort towards the 95% customer base and firing the 5%

then you got 5% free time for yourself and no headaches


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

That 5% pita group doesn't change because you decided not to X them. They were griping complaining callback wonders before, and will continue to be. I just get "too busy" for them. 
As customers we are all warned to choose carefully before we hire contractors, as contractors we should also not be afraid to X the crappy customer that we know will burn a hole in the company wallet and increase our uncler.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Phat Cat said:


> For someone who prides themselves in understanding customer's objections and underlying reasons for what they say, you seem to miss the boat when reading what I post. Tunnel vision? Why am I not afforded the same luxury as your customers?
> 
> You quoted my thoughts. Yet your response is directed at my actions, which you didn't even inquire about. Have you stopped to consider that PZ members who post about the difficult customers are only referring to a very small percentage of their client base?
> 
> ...


After my day is done I will respond to each and everything you have stated. I do give you the same latitude to each of you. I use your quotes due to you responding directly like you have to each line item without middle ground. Where is the ambiguity in your statements? The one thing I have learned over the years, in business when people are asked to respond to customer issues they respond typically the way the customer responds to them. Ever role play? People role play due to their experience they say and do what their customer says and does to them.

We are talking about 5% of the customers to this one problem now add a different issue and add another 5% and another issue and soon that 5% is way more than 5% of the total number of customers. If I remember correctly the average closed business is 70% that means the 5% is no longer 5% it is 30% of LOST business. I am sure each of us could stand to gain 15-20% more business.

The problem is not the lost customers it is the way we think of our customers. They can kiss my ass. I am not going to kiss the ass of my customers, they are cheap bas$ards, time wasters, tire kickers. Add to the list how trades people label the customer. Again it is not the 5% we are discussing it is the 30% that we lose and decrease that percentage.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Even if it was 30 % .... which if it was that would be a really high number IMO 

If the 30% sucked all your time and energy so it gave you less time to spoil the 70%......then I would still get rid of the 30%

It would make room for new cliental 

It would be more wise for you to pass those types of customers to your competitors and let them waste their time and money on them

Make your business plan about getting and keeping the good customer base

Any one shopping over price is not hiring me but the price they want 

I would rather them want me than the price.....


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Even if it was 30 % .... which if it was that would be a really high number IMO
> 
> If the 30% sucked all your time and energy so it gave you less time to spoil the 70%......then I would still get rid of the 30%
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. A wise man indeed lol


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Even if it was 30 % .... which if it was that would be a really high number IMO
> 
> If the 30% sucked all your time and energy so it gave you less time to spoil the 70%......then I would still get rid of the 30%
> 
> ...


This is assuming that the customer is the time waster verses the plumber being the one who is the customer’s time waster. I would think 70-80% closing rate is the norm if you accept the PHCC’s version of QSC it is closer to 70%. 

I agree 100% it is about getting and keeping good customers. Please inform us how to replace 30% of the customer calls and if it were that easy we would all be doing it. In theory it is great however in reality it does not work that way. I agree price shoppers are not my prime customer. In the ops statement shows me where price was mentioned? If I had the time I would do this myself and it should take very little time. I do not see price mentioned anywhere.

Please explain Buyer’s remorse and how it is created?
Please explain where customers get their notions of price?
What constitutes a bad customer?
Is it possible the plumber, HVAC, electricians create the situation turning a potential good customer into a bad one in our minds? 

I do not believe most customer’s statement make them a bad customer. Frequently statements are made spur of the moment, uninformed, or mistakes. I also have this belief that customers will make statements truthfully however they are not the truth. They are making buying decisions based on past experiences, what they have seen or heard. 

I also believe that most companies do not create an environment with customers that are ready, willing, and able to do business with the company. There is no qualification identifying the ideal customer for the company and then we want to blame a customer for not fitting into a prime customer base. This is not the customers fault. It is the company’s fault and the company then is to blame for being the time waster.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

For someone who prides themselves in understanding customer's objections and underlying reasons for what they say, you seem to miss the boat when reading what I post. Tunnel vision? Why am I not afforded the same luxury as your customers?

You quoted my thoughts. Yet your response is directed at my actions, which you didn't even inquire about. Have you stopped to consider that PZ members who post about the difficult customers are only referring to a very small percentage of their client base?

Psychology is an amazing science. When I am with a customer I am establishing a history with him or her. When I have established a history with a customer there is no need to keep asking the same question over and over and babying them. With you there is an established history. You say what you mean and mean what you say. There is also a history when you do not agree with what is being stated as well as when you agree with someone. Actions, reactions, responses are precise with intent to get the message across. There is no tunnel vision.

I have said many times it is the small percentage of customers we must try and influence. For me it is less than 5% that I must influence. It used to be closer to 20-25%. My percentage of bad customers is less than 5% total. I am speaking of those customers willing to pay my price and with me receiving additional tasks. I am not trying to convince or persuade. What you think and what you have stated, many think exactly the same way.

If 95% (truthfully, I think the percentage is higher) of our customer base is happy, we must be doing something right. Maybe the 5% are near impossible to please and not worth the extra effort. Personally, I do find it frustrating trying to please the 5%, because only a small percentage of them are won over - hence, the frustration. No matter what you do, no matter how good you are, you will never achieve perfection.

I commend you if this is accurate. It is unusual and I tip my hat to you. And both your time and mine are being wasted discussing this concerning you and I.

That is only one philosophy. Personally, I find strength based psychology more rewarding and productive. I'm sure you are familiar with it, but for those who aren't:

A philosophy built on the premise that if you focus on strengthening a weakness, mediocrity is usually achieved. If you focus on a strength, you have the opportunity to achieve greatness. http://www.ifslearning.ac.uk/Alumni/...psycology.aspx

Sure if you are a duck and focus on climbing trees like a squirrel you may lose the ability to swim. You are correct you should focus on things you are good at however this does not mean to close your eyes to areas you can improve and use. No one is stating that any person work on things that cannot be improved on or will never use and will never help you increase your ability. If you study the theory above you will understand that this is what they are speaking about. 

 In my situation, I would have far less frustration if I just dismissed the 'difficult to please' customer. If every plumbing company did the same, maybe the customer would learn to treat others with the respect that they deserve. We are talking about adults here. I am not interested in doing anymore coddling than I already do, it rewards the customer's bad behavior.
By all means keep on answering and doing it the way you want. I will stand by this statement.
Residential plumbing service is NOT one of those. Manufacturers sales are down. Some companies are doing better, but that is because a lot of businesses went under. Is it because they were doing something better? Or, is it because they had a bit more capital to ride the storm?

New construction is down not service.

You are assuming the plumbing contractor is at fault or misunderstanding the customer. I believe a lot of these customers know exactly what they are doing.

The opposite is assumed here that it is the customers fault.As stated if we look at it from a different point of view.
Hmmm, all you are missing is the BUT, to completely negate the first part of your statement. I appreciate receiving information to help me help myself. I agree with digging a bit deeper, but not to the extent you do for these customers. Especially when the vast majority of customers are reasonable.


I cannot control what you believe and most importantly I do not want to .Al of my customers receive this kind of treatment. Again I see it as the way we look at our customers verse These customers. I do not resent a customer for the way they think it is not personal and it is business.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Thank you Richard . . . maybe it is because our percentages are way above average that I am more resistant, than most, to your leanings to give the customer more. 

My frustration does stem from trying to genuinely see it from a customer's POV and truly wanting to find a way to help them. Not for profit, it goes deeper than that. A decent paycheck and an 'atta-girl' goes a long way with me. If I (and/or our company) am appreciated, I will go above and beyond to make something work. It is a challenge and I do love challenges.

A percentage of customers / potential customers do lie and will take advantage. You are correct that price was not specifically mentioned. Our backs are up because our experience tells us this is a 'red flag.' Not a complete given, but a 'red flag' nonetheless. It does put us on high alert when we hear these words.

Here are some customer lies that I bet the majority of business owners have heard:

1. Can I have a bunch of your business cards? I'm gonna give them to all my friends. I know a lot of people since I work at ___________. (The bigshot - all talk.)

2. If you work with me on this one, I have a lot more properties and work coming up. (The carrot dangler).

3. Thanks for coming out. Everything looks good. I need to check my wife's schedule and will call you to get the work done. Call never comes in and attempts to call them go unanswered. (The coward - does not no how to say 'no.')

4. I'm not a price-shopper or looking for a handyman. I'm looking for a decent price and great value. (The price-shopper - trying to cover up the fact that the lowest number will get the job).

5. How much do I owe you? Oh shoot, my wife took the checkbook. I'm so embarrassed. You must think I'm a real jerk. Can I mail you a check? (The con artist - knew full well he didn't have the money when he called you in the first place).

6. The checks in the mail. (The scumbag - has no intention of paying you).

7. You guys are the BEST!!! I use you for all my plumbing. I need you to take a look at my water heater - I keep running out of hot water. Get to the house and discover the water heater that you had put an element in for close to nothing (due to customer poor mouthing) and had given a quote for a new water heater has been replaced with a Whirlpool. (Flatterer - knows when people are flattered their guard goes down).


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

You forgot, you guys did this last year for (insert 1/3 the normal rate). This is mostly for drain cleaning.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

LOL how true PC. A bunch of dresser drawers in this town have dust covered stacks of my business cards on them too.
I don't know what my X'em percentage is because I don't let it be habit forming to fire customers. I need my customers and try to make them feel important and appreciated. I just know a "professional customer" when he or she tries their stuff on me.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> You forgot, you guys did this last year for (insert 1/3 the normal rate). This is mostly for drain cleaning.


You forgot it was actually three years ago. :laughing:

Had a call today from mgmt. co. questioning our bill on behalf one of the unit owners who thought they should not have been charged for replacing a valve & drain down in the ground (serving pool shower) that was replaced last year.

It was two years ago. Pool company has taken over winterization and they don't always get it right. :no: Not going to warrant something from over two years ago.


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