# Guys, I need some help!



## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

I've never run into this situation before, and I want to make sure I do it right, because thats how I roll. Anyway, I got a sewer line replacement. I couldn't camera it to the end because the old pipe was orangeberg (that tar paper crap) that was pretty bad. So I went with what was "usual" around here, usually a piece of clay pipe for the lateral into the main sewer. I had to cut out about 50' of concrete patio, I just did it in little bites following the line and excavating as I went. All was fine until I finally got to the end. Instead of the expected clay pipe, I ran into a blob of concrete around the orangeberg. Not wanting to leave any orangeberg, I stuck my head down in there and chiseled it all out of the concrete. When I looked in the hole, it looked like a cast iron hub fitting. Now the city sewer isn't that big, I didn't dig it up, but the camera looks like 6" tops. Its running in an easement that isn't even an easment any more. So what I did was after I pulled out the old pipe was slide in the DWV. I know orangeberg is larger in O.D. than DWV, and my pipe slid in pretty easy. I do NOT want to hammer on that concrete blob. I do not want to risk damaging the small city sewer pipe. Its only about a 6" insert, tops. My question is, is there a special orangeberg spigot ( or street ) to DWV adapater? I haven't backfilled this yet, so, I can take it back apart there if I have to. I thought about oakum, but its not that big a gap. I'm tempted to just pour a bag of quick setting cement over it. We ran a boatload of water, and there are no leaks. Anyone run into this kind of sewer tap? Its a first for me.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I would call the city or county sewer department and have them install the proper tap. If you pulled a permit this should be easy to request if not could be a tough one for you. Pouring concrete over the tap is a sloppy way to complete an otherwise fine job.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*quick setting cement*

I would do the quick setting cement, maybe do 2 or 3 bags 
and wrap the spot with some heavy duty garbage bags first to seal 
around the gap better....


its what they did 50 years ago and it will
 probably work fine for another 50....


I would leave it be and get the hell out of there...


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Hydraulic cement for the gap. If you go that way.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I do not think you have enough information (or haven't shared enough) to cover it up yet. Don't get me wrong, I have had my share of "get a bag of concrete" situations over the years. However, I think you have too many unknowns.

1. Do you have a permit pulled? 
(if not that needs to be your first call on Monday)

2. Does the city still list it on their maps as theirs to maintain?
(that is the 2nd call for Monday)

3. Are there other taps on this line?

4. If it is a private main, and there are other taps, is your tap close to theirs?

We have mostly 8" and larger clay mains in Oklahoma City. It is not uncommon to have a CI hub sitting in the broken hole of a clay wye or just a tapped hole and have a large amount of concrete pouted all around. Usually we find the clay under that concrete to be cracked. (visible on the camera before breaking the concrete)

I believe your client is going to rightfully hold your feet to the fire if you leave it and it finally breaks down a year or even longer from now. There will NEVER be a better time to get all the answers and guarantee this is the last time this hole has to be dug than tomorrow morning. That concrete has to go and you need to accurately provide all the answers on the condition and ownership of that line to your customer.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

If you have already given a price for the completed job to your client, you need to stand by your price for the completed project unless you had already noted in the contract there would be additional charges for a problem at the main.


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

I'm with Mark on this one...but use duct tape instead of garbage bags.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

I agree with the advice regarding contacting the municipality.

Have them assess their invert connection and make the proper repairs.


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## seanny deep (Jan 28, 2012)

Do it right.... Or dont charge the customer ... Just my thoughts i have done a few things i was not proud of such as using concrete ect... But i dont bill either hard to get taken to court if you volunteered.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Wait, I thought after tapping into the main you always through in cement and spray some water on it. It's like that easy bake commercial from the 90's, set it and forget it!


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

AAAAAHG Bird dog plumbing (rough rough cheep cheep)...... trash bags, duct tape concrete? FFS do it once and do it right!


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

Looks like you ran into some one elses bag of cement job . I'll remind all that part of the job lasted longer than the rest of the pipe. While not right ,calling the town / county officials is asking or could be asking for a municipal nightmare that may end up costing your customer extra for nothing more than their B.S. disregard for people's money you know like our boys inD.C. If the cement works don't knock it because its simple ,our jobs are hard enough .


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## maureen (Feb 29, 2012)

*Help*

I know this is kind of after the fact but try to set up a utility locate before you do any work involving utilities. It is a free service, and the call will be to all utilities in the area This will give you an idea of where the utilities tie in to the house/business. Also, like one of the posts before me, call the local utility. They are usually very helpful


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Piper34 said:


> ....While not right ,calling the town / county officials is asking or could be asking for a municipal nightmare that may end up costing your customer extra for nothing more than their B.S. disregard for people's money you know like our boys inD.C....


I guess it all depends on who's liability insurance is at risk.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

I think that the real issue here is like John mentioned, liability and legality. There are a number of different products and methods that can be used to seal the connection. You could use a chemical grout, hydraulic cement, cut out a section of the main and section in a piece of PVC main, then do a Fernco tap saddle, there are also other grouting and sealing products that are commonly used in municipal lines. Some of these are NSF certified and approved by most plumbing codes, others are less common and only used in municipal mains and would be considered hack work if used on private laterals. So it also depends a lot on ownership, if the city owns the tap and main they may or may not let you by with a method not normally seen in the plumbing world, whereas if in your jurisdiction the tap and/or that particular main is private and regulated by your plumbing code you should tow the line and ask the right people for the answers you need.

Another reason to call the city is for the greater good of the system. In the past most cities had very poor record keeping of their sanitary sewer systems. Today every city is working diligently toward compiling a detailed map of every main, tap location, pipe material, depth, condition of the main, etc. The reason is so that they can plan and execute rehab, replacement, and maintenance in the most cost-effective manner possible. Not something everyone thinks of but it is awesome in some situations to be able to call the city engineer and have him tell you over the phone all you need to know about a sewer tie-in without spending an hour strolling around pulling manhole lids, going in the crawlspace, running a camera, and so forth to find out what you need to know.


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## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

What I would do is take my chain snappers and cut of the cast iron hub and convert with a fernco you can do it dude!


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

well, job is done. I did what I think was the correct thing. I advised my boss of the situation, and, expressed my concerns, and, I did what he said to do.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

MikeS said:


> well, job is done. I did what I think was the correct thing. I advised my boss of the situation, and, expressed my concerns, and,_ I did what he said to do._


And that was ?


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

*I did what he said to do...*


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

SewerRat said:


> I think that the real issue here is like John mentioned, liability and legality. There are a number of different products and methods that can be used to seal the connection. You could use a chemical grout, hydraulic cement, cut out a section of the main and section in a piece of PVC main, then do a Fernco tap saddle, there are also other grouting and sealing products that are commonly used in municipal lines. Some of these are NSF certified and approved by most plumbing codes, others are less common and only used in municipal mains and would be considered hack work if used on private laterals. So it also depends a lot on ownership, if the city owns the tap and main they may or may not let you by with a method not normally seen in the plumbing world, whereas if in your jurisdiction the tap and/or that particular main is private and regulated by your plumbing code you should tow the line and ask the right people for the answers you need.
> 
> Another reason to call the city is for the greater good of the system. In the past most cities had very poor record keeping of their sanitary sewer systems. Today every city is working diligently toward compiling a detailed map of every main, tap location, pipe material, depth, condition of the main, etc. The reason is so that they can plan and execute rehab, replacement, and maintenance in the most cost-effective manner possible. Not something everyone thinks of but it is awesome in some situations to be able to call the city engineer and have him tell you over the phone all you need to know about a sewer tie-in without spending an hour strolling around pulling manhole lids, going in the crawlspace, running a camera, and so forth to find out what you need to know.


I believe the city has been going through this neighborhood and upgrading the pipes to SDR. I don't know how they would be able to do this one, since it runs between property lines. My guess would be they are pulling them thru, with bursting heads, and just tying everyone back in.


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