# Pex



## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

I do mostly commercial so I don't really deal with pex very often 
Today a customer requested we use it and I piped about 100 feet 

My question is, after turning on the water and getting the air out of the line, running it for half hour, and being there for 2 hours well it's on
If it was going to blow or leak, it would have done it in that time right?


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Ptturner91 said:


> I do mostly commercial so I don't really deal with pex very often Today a customer requested we use it and I piped about 100 feet My question is, after turning on the water and getting the air out of the line, running it for half hour, and being there for 2 hours well it's on If it was going to blow or leak, it would have done it in that time right?



Naaaw it if didn't leak with in the 15 mins it probably won't leak or blow later


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

it might be fine. i ran into one last week where the hack compressed a straight stop onto pex with a brass ferril. it held for about 2 weeks then leaked into the second floor ceiling. no stiffener or poly ferril.(some manufacturers say brass ferril some say poly and i always use poly) a couple other spots, the ring was away from the fitting approx 1/2 inch and dripping. there is no guarantee even on a product that you always use that a leak cant occur on.


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## Ptturner91 (Oct 13, 2012)

Well if it leaks that's fine I can fix that, I'm worried about it blowing in the middle of the night 

I just don't trust it


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## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

If it is going to blow it will be in the first 15 minutes. after running literally miles of PEX I've only had one failure (besides forgetting to crimp...) and that was a fitting that was not cast properly and was leaking slowly.

If you forget to crimp it will blow off on testing with air right away or with water at pressure very quickly (15 minutes or less)


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

alberteh said:


> If it is going to blow it will be in the first 15 minutes. after running literally miles of PEX I've only had one failure (besides forgetting to crimp...) and that was a fitting that was not cast properly and was leaking slowly.
> 
> If you forget to crimp it will blow off on testing with air right away or with water at pressure very quickly (15 minutes or less)


Yes,I had a brass fitting awhile back that had a brass shaving on it and it leaked,fixed it twice before I figured out what was causing the leak:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Wow! PEX Paranoia! :laughing:

What are you worried about? :laughing:

There are a couple of miles of this stuff installed now that are just fine....


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

I go to work every day with the security that if something leaks or goes bad plumbing wise I can will and do repair it properly that's what I tell my underlings. Look guys anything you do wrong backwards or crappy no matter how bad it is I or one of the other guys at the shop can fix it. I find people learn better by doing than having you hold their hand although sometimes I would like to hold their neck if you catch my drift.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

alberteh said:


> ...If you forget to crimp it will blow off on testing with air right away or with water at pressure very quickly (15 minutes or less)


I had a non-crimped fittin hold for three days before it came apart.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> I had a non-crimped fittin hold for three days before it came apart.


thats why I use uponor memory rings. If you can put the fitting in the pipe it will seal. That way you don't forget.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> thats why I use uponor memory rings. If you can put the fitting in the pipe it will seal. That way you don't forget.


Uponor by far is the superior system. 
On service work though, we have to play the cards we are dealt.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> Uponor by far is the superior system. On service work though, we have to play the cards we are dealt.


yes I keep tools for all types but a lot of the time I will use shark bite when needed to transition back saves time and makes money at the same time.


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

Had it leak blow while we were driving home . Not my joint but we had water on 1 hr before we left . I do so many joints I lay awake at night allot of the times just wondering what if or when .....


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Fast fry said:


> Had it leak blow while we were driving home . Not my joint but we had water on 1 hr before we left . I do so many joints I lay awake at night allot of the times just wondering what if or when .....


that is one reason I prefer the uponor system. You cannot forget a joint. If it slips on you are good it's as simple as that. Others can have large amounts of work done before any crimping is done. That is a large potential for a mistake just one ring missed can be costly.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

uphonor sucks when its below zero. sorry sir, i will have to wait two days until i can turn on your water. i could have crimped it but this way i know that i didnt forget to do it :laughing:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> uphonor sucks when its below zero. sorry sir, i will have to wait two days until i can turn on your water. i could have crimped it but this way i know that i didnt forget to do it :laughing:


your not going to turn the water on anyway if it's below zero. Lol


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

I run 100% pex offshore. 

I call in for the watts brass firings and crimp rings. 

Before I came on board they only ran schedule 40 PVC and CPVC overhead. I cut that crap out, when I'm on the deck, and it's on me for the plumbing. I'm running pex every time, ill even adapt from PVC to it if they won't pay for a re pipe.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

We use a ton of pex. We also use a lot of copper. I'm sorry, but forgetting to crimp a ring, that's just a lack of focus. That's the same as forgetting a solder joint, maybe not as bad since its less time consuming to get pex reconnected, no need to drain system, unsweat copper, re setup copper, resolder, retest. I do this method to physically check each crimp, as I'm standing up to go to the next manifold, I try and twist each ring and I go in order. Takes a few seconds per manifold. If you got them all, move on to the next manifold. Manifolds or whatever you're working on. Pex is all over here in new construction, even the big homes on acreage. I still love it when a customer requests all copper. Big house we are doing now, the town made us use copper through the slab, then we could convert to pex. You have to remember to check your crimps every so often with a go-nogo gauge if you do a lot. you might have thought you had a good crimp, but was it? I've never used the Uponor system, does sound nice because those pex crimpers can be a pain in odd spots or angles, especially after tightening them up a notch for the go-nogo gauge, give you Popeye arms.


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## fonta (Aug 2, 2014)

Pex is very reliable. Obviously has its own limitations (pressure and temperature) but these are specified by the manufacturer. In my experience I never had a major issue (burst etc) with this material; quite the contrary. You can sleep well because this is a very strong.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Up here we can tell when a house was built. If it was built in the winter there is usually gear clamps on the Uponor system. I always air test the waterlines after I redo any piping. When the air is on I always check each and every crimp for the possible rotation if any joint was missed. I will also spray the joint down with leak detector, call me paranoid but it's better to spend an hour then doing that then having two hours unpaid fixing a leak later. Especially if you have a apprentice helping you run them.


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## APP14 (Jan 21, 2014)

We are test if it's in a new house with no water yet or we go back over every ring and double check that they're crimped. A little extra time at the end of the day saves a big headache.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Y'all don't crimp as you install the fittings?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> Y'all don't crimp as you install the fittings?


Yea really....
I slide a fitting into pex and the next step is the crimp...
I'm not getting this forgot to crimp bit....:no:


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Yea really....
> I slide a fitting into pex and the next step is the crimp...
> I'm not getting this forgot to crimp bit....:no:


Me neither brother man.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Expander rings makes it imposable to forget. Even the dumbest helper can't get it wrong.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plbgbiz said:


> Uponor by far is the superior system.
> On service work though, we have to play the cards we are dealt.


what makes this kind so much better than the other????differences in it and wirsbo????seems like the same to me,it is not available in ky from what i have been told.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Upanor and wirsbo are the same from everything I've read on here. I've never seen it. Just that type of pex system is better than the crimp ring system.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Also better flow threw Uponor fittings

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Upnor is the manufacturer of wirsbo pex


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

sparky said:


> what makes this kind so much better than the other????differences in it and wirsbo????seems like the same to me,it is not available in ky from what i have been told.


 the pipe has to be expanded to fit the fitting so you can't forget to crimp anything. The fitting has a larger id so it has a improved water flow.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Wirsbo has a better flow rate than copper.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I switched from crimp to Uponor about a year ago and could not be happier ! Mind you ,I still run mostly L copper but as we transition over to pex ,,, this system is really GREAT ! We are having so much more copper pitting after a certain number of years service. Finding the Uponor to be the best alternative at this time.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Uponor has also certified their heating pipe for use in potable systems now, so you don't end up with a whole bunch of useless scraps anymore! Uponor and rehau definitely have the best systems. Rehau may work better in cold temperatures, and you don't have to worry about sloppy guys not rotating the tools as they expand it, but it's a lot more labour intensive and if you prep a bunch of fittings in a row you can still forget to go back and draw the ring on. I prefer the uponor hands down. The new milualkee expander tool is REALLY nice too.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

How easy is it to use the tool in tight spaces? I remember seeing somewhere that you have to rotate the tool. Checking out the possibility of switching over for the better flow rates, ease of installation. What do you see your guys messing up the most often with the uponor system? With the crimp type pex, it's obviously the crimps.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

chonkie said:


> How easy is it to use the tool in tight spaces? I remember seeing somewhere that you have to rotate the tool. Checking out the possibility of switching over for the better flow rates, ease of installation. What do you see your guys messing up the most often with the uponor system? With the crimp type pex, it's obviously the crimps.


 tool has self rotating heads now and the tool is mad for tight places. The only thing is the time between removing the tool and inserting the fitting is limited. If you miss that window you need to re expand you can't push it together it's not a shark bite.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

wyrickmech said:


> tool has self rotating heads now and the tool is mad for tight places. The only thing is the time between removing the tool and inserting the fitting is limited. If you miss that window you need to re expand you can't push it together it's not a shark bite.


 Agreed ! Lot easier in tight spots. You learn after a few joints how many times to the different size pipes and how quickly you must act. 
It's VERY worth the money over crimp . My .02


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Thanks for yalls replies. I'll definitely look into switching over. I just need to see how available it is around here since I've never looked for it.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Dpeckplb said:


> Wirsbo has a better flow rate than copper.


I believe you'll find this to be true of all PEX...

The design of a PEX plumbing system allows higher flow velocities because PEX is not limited like copper is due to erosion at higher velocities....



> The water velocity in copper pipes should be kept within certain limits to avoid erosion, corrosion and excessive noise generation.
> 
> in cold water systems the velocities should not exceed 8 feet per second (2.4 m/s)
> 
> ...


The larger diameter of the Wirsbo fittings?

Well the 4" length of a couple of fittings that have a 0.100" smaller inside dimension has a barely measurable friction loss at the highest flows that would be much more noticeable to a marketing person at Uponor and a believer than anyone else....

I would urge you to try taking some pressure drop measurements across the fittings in 2 identical samples with the wirsbo and crimp fittings being the only difference...

I would also suggest that you use a differential pressure gauge to measure the results as the plus minus percentage of accuracy of a gauge is enough to invalidate the results....


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

chonkie said:


> Thanks for yalls replies. I'll definitely look into switching over. I just need to see how available it is around here since I've never looked for it.


 Supplyhouse.com


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## ekapec (Jun 16, 2014)

We use tons of pex, uponor with oetiker rings or viega fittins. Hard to screw up, sometimes pre crimping is a good idea though...


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## 408plumber (Apr 24, 2012)

I use the expander rings and they work great. But the question that I get the most is "is it safe to drink from?". Does anyone know if there is any technical documents that say or prove that it is safe for drinking?


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Ptturner91 said:


> I do mostly commercial so I don't really deal with pex very often
> Today a customer requested we use it and I piped about 100 feet
> 
> My question is, after turning on the water and getting the air out of the line, running it for half hour, and being there for 2 hours well it's on
> If it was going to blow or leak, it would have done it in that time right?


If you're worried about it at all just take your hydrostatic pump and pump it up to 200 -250 PSI. Have a quick look for any drips and you're good. Most bad joints can't survive 200.

Years ago during a "tight PEX pipe" time we were getting PEX that was so tight on the fittings that I had to really work to get 3/4" onto the fittings. Then if I missed a crimp it wouldn't leak, even at 90 PSI street pressure. I missed one in a rough-in during that time on a Friday. Pressured it up Friday afternoon (I was coming back Monday to do more work and my test). The homeowner was there sweeping on Sunday when it blew off.

But these days the pipe I'm getting is really loose on the fittings. It wouldn't survive any pressure at all on any missed crimp. So it all depends on what PEX you're using. Do a 200 PSI test to be sure.


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## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

408plumber said:


> I use the expander rings and they work great. But the question that I get the most is "is it safe to drink from?". Does anyone know if there is any technical documents that say or prove that it is safe for drinking?


Your state's plumbing codes will tell you what is safe. Those codes will list NSF, ASSE, ASTM, etc., numbers. Uponor will gladly provide you with info showing that they comply. Or just look at the stamps on the pipe. They say its safe to drink from, your state codes say its safe to drink from, I say its safe to drink from, and yet I would not think of installing it in a hospital, medical clinic, nursing home, and such. Dept of health or medical board will take one look and say "Ummm, that's not copper." Maybe "safe" is a relative term (like "efficient"). I drank from the garden hose as a kid and I'm still alive.


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