# What would you think and do?



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Me and another plumber set a tus/shower one piece today. Got all done turned water on and heard water near the WH, upon checking it out, the heater was old and rusted out, leaking really bad, now keep in mine the job we did was for a builder, separate to the problems with the WH, we informed the owner of the problem, though out the bid and the owner said they had others to do that work for them, sitting there doing the write up, two trucks pull up, there not plumbers, and I knew they did not have a license to do that water heater, since we were already into a job there, we did not want to start trouble and not get our payment from the builder, we let it go and said nothing, oh how I wated to wait there till they started to roll out a new WH just to call them in, I could not.

This was a hard call to make, letting non licensened plumbers get the WH job.

What what you have done differently, put work from a builder at stake and say something, or keep quiet like nothing happened?


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

I would let the owner know the risk he is taking. Informing the customer is never a bad idea. What he choses to do once educated is beyond your control.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Its a tough call. I myself right now am pissed with one gc in particular. If I hear of him doing something like that I will make a call to DPOR.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I don't work for builders, ever.:thumbsup: So I would have called my friends at the city permit & inspection department and waited for them to show up while the unlicensed guys were in the middle of hooking up the water heater without a permit.:whistling2: That would be so great, I can hardly wait until I get such an opportunity.:yes: You blew it Ron.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

service guy said:


> I don't work for builders, ever.:thumbsup: So I would have called my friends at the city permit & inspection department and waited for them to show up while the unlicensed guys were in the middle of hooking up the water heater without a permit.:whistling2: That would be so great, I can hardly wait until I get such an opportunity.:yes: You blew it Ron.


Rons problem was he could not say anything because if he did he would have problems with the contractor about getting paid.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Bill said:


> Rons problem was he could not say anything because if he did he would have problems with the contractor about getting paid.


I know, but he could have made an anonymous call to the building inspectors to come and bust the guys doing the illegal install.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

service guy said:


> I know, but he could have made an anonymous call to the building inspectors to come and bust the guys doing the illegal install.


Yeh, now thats an option. Just hope its not like our local Sheriffs department, call in anomalously and they publicise your name!


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Thats a tough call! I can't stand working for gc's, they want my great work for pennies on the $$$ as they cash in on it! 

You were in a tough spot, I would have called it in silently, not let anyone know, right as I was on site, it the porta john :laughing: If I was still there while the inspector showed up I would have acted very surprised. Guess the neighbors did it, or the inspector must have been driving by, how are they gonna prove different?

This unlicensed crap has to stop happening. One way or another. In my area I believe it is slowing down because people are wising up and realizing they have no recourse when something goes down


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I'd follow their truck home later that day, then wait for a stormy night with lots of thunder and lightning. Then take a gun with a silencer and follow a thunder boom from a distance, fire right into the engine block. 

There's 4 to 6 thousand dollars right there. 


If you don't have the nuggets to do it, buy a pellet gun and keep holes in the radiators...they'll catch on eventually, signed off by a dear john letter telling them why radiators leak with unlicensed plumbers only. 

The only way to stop it is with *costing* them money. Nothing else rarely works.


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## TotalPlumber (Sep 30, 2008)

Roast Duck said:


> I'd follow their truck home later that day, then wait for a stormy night with lots of thunder and lightning. Then take a gun with a silencer and follow a thunder boom from a distance, fire right into the engine block.
> 
> There's 4 to 6 thousand dollars right there.
> 
> ...


real smart, shooting their truck! What an idiot! do you really think any of us believe you actually do that? By the way, the original poster of this question wanted a straight answer. Next time you want to run your mouth by typing this sort of BS, dont!


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Game On!

Seriously though, name calling on an obvious tongue-in-cheek post is just plain silly.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Well....I don't know Ron. If I didn't call it in, I would contact the home owner tomorrow and let them know you would be more than happy to come by and take a look and make sure everything is safe and correct. Once in the door you can pick apart the handymans work and maybe get some kibnd of sale out of it. As for calling it in.....I prolly would have not. I care...just not that much to start affecting my income.


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## cougfan (Jan 2, 2009)

Can't keep quiet about it.we've lost a couple of GC's in the past on stuff like this,but if they expect us to be above board ,they have to also.How would the builder feel if there was a rotten floor discovered and the HO called in a handyman to repair it instead of him?


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

That is a tough one, I think the homeowner or contractor needs to get fined for hiring unliscenced workers. Its the only way it will ever stop.


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> Thats a tough call! I can't stand working for gc's, they want my great work for pennies on the $$$ as they cash in on it!
> 
> You were in a tough spot, I would have called it in silently, not let anyone know, right as I was on site, it the porta john :laughing: If I was still there while the inspector showed up I would have acted very surprised. Guess the neighbors did it, or the inspector must have been driving by, how are they gonna prove different?
> 
> This unlicensed crap has to stop happening. One way or another. In my area I believe it is slowing down because people are wising up and realizing they have no recourse when something goes down


 I'm with you here WCP 100%. I don't know about the rest of you but I can't afford to lose work to an unlicensed hack. The reason for unlicensed work being allowed is even thought of, is because fines are rarelly inforced.
Are comp. has sent reps. to HO association meetings and such to inform the HO of the law, we also answer questions about misc. plumbing stuff. Gotten a few calls from it to!!!!


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## pipes (Jun 24, 2008)

What I've done in the past was to call the building dept. I had my permit, and inspectors can come by a job unannounced. Of course I am friendly with all the inspectors not just plumbing, so when I call and let one of them know what is going on I tell them this was an anonymous call so I can get my check with out all drama.:whistling2:


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TotalPlumber said:


> real smart, shooting their truck! What an idiot! do you really think any of us believe you actually do that? By the way, the original poster of this question wanted a straight answer. Next time you want to run your mouth by typing this sort of BS, dont!


 
lighten up, if you knew the poster you would be laughing right now.

some people just don't have a personality


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

TotalPlumber said:


> real smart, shooting their truck! What an idiot! do you really think any of us believe you actually do that? By the way, the original poster of this question wanted a straight answer. Next time you want to run your mouth by typing this sort of BS, dont!


It ok TotalPlumber, we all are friends on this site, I know it's all just joking around. :thumbsup:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

TotalPlumber said:


> real smart, shooting their truck! What an idiot! do you really think any of us believe you actually do that? By the way, the original poster of this question wanted a straight answer. Next time you want to run your mouth by typing this sort of BS, dont!


 
*That was Ron's plumbing work to do the task no matter what excuse you throw at it, You defend the action of the hacks and I'll make it interesting for you here.*


Only a unlicensed plumber would take offense to that, or someone who *employs *such a lowered standard for substantiating profit margins that aren't marginally there...no?



TotalPlumber said:


> My business is 18 months old, been a plumber for 10 years or so. My biggest problem is profitability!


 
Young grasshopper, 

What makes you so determined to defend those who take from this trade...

I have twice your years in the trade, and far more than "18 months" running a business. If you want entertainment, being such a angelic plumber, let me take my lawnmower and mow your wings off. :laughing:


What is with you plumbers in Alabama? Do you just sing, pray your way into making these unlicensed HACKS stop taking work away from the profession that employs me? I don't care about you, I care about me. That simple.




Don't make me turn your words into my signature. Feel free to use mine shooting holes into engine blocks of unlicensed hacks...anytime. :thumbup:

BANG! POW! Damn T-storms! :whistling2:











_(polishes pellet gun, shines barrel)_


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

service guy said:


> I don't work for builders, ever.:thumbsup: So I would have called my friends at the city permit & inspection department and waited for them to show up while the unlicensed guys were in the middle of hooking up the water heater without a permit.:whistling2: That would be so great, I can hardly wait until I get such an opportunity.:yes: You blew it Ron.


meee tooo. I would have called them in a heartbeat. Let the fines begin!!!!!!


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

I saw an ad by a unlicensed plumber in Craigslist. I called him, set up a appointment for service, gave him the address, phone number, everything.

The info I gave him was for the local licensing board. 

I called him a few days later and asked if he went by to look at the job. He was sounding a little worried, so I asked him for his last name and he hung up. :laughing:

There are ways to do it without being obvious....


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

We never had a direct link between us and the owner, it was a tenant that did the relay for quoting the price, also we were not sure if this was people directly employed by the owners/property managers, (as in on there payroll), here law states if you are employed by a property management, you can do all the plumbing you want and not have to be licensed. So it was all unclear to who they were at the time. Does not mean they can to install a WH without a permit.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Plumber said:


> I saw an ad by a unlicensed plumber in Craigslist. I called him, set up a appointment for service, gave him the address, phone number, everything.
> 
> The info I gave him was for the local licensing board.
> 
> ...


 

That was an awesome move right there. :thumbsup:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> We never had a direct link between us and the owner, it was a tenant that did the relay for quoting the price, also we were not sure if this was people directly employed by the owners/property managers, (as in on there payroll), here law states if you are employed by a property management, you can do all the plumbing you want and not have to be licensed. So it was all unclear to who they were at the time. Does not mean they can to install a WH without a permit.


 
Definitely some fine lines there, but for them to do it in such an "obvious" manner would of had me reporting it instantly. 


But then again, it's the parameter of cutting off the hand that feeds ya in these trying times.


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## Dr Steevil (Jan 25, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> We never had a direct link between us and the owner, it was a tenant that did the relay for quoting the price, also we were not sure if this was people directly employed by the owners/property managers, (as in on there payroll), here law states if you are employed by a property management, you can do all the plumbing you want and not have to be licensed. So it was all unclear to who they were at the time. Does not mean they can to install a WH without a permit.


I believe the law is similar here in Texas with regards to property maintenance workers being allowed to do plumbing work without a license. So, I guess the real answer here would have been to maybe mention something about it to both the property owner and the contractor but in a manner so as not to create tension. In the end though, I would say that if the contractor was aware of the unlicensed workers and was ok with it, then it should be obvious about how they feel about their relationship with you and once you do receive your payment from them I'd think twice about doing more work for them.


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## TotalPlumber (Sep 30, 2008)

*wow..*



Roast Duck said:


> *That was Ron's plumbing work to do the task no matter what excuse you throw at it, You defend the action of the hacks and I'll make it interesting for you here.*
> 
> 
> Only a unlicensed plumber would take offense to that, or someone who *employs *such a lowered standard for substantiating profit margins that aren't marginally there...no?
> ...


Duck, 
Wow, I had no idea that I was defending unlicensed plumbers (I certainly was NOT). You really are very intuitive. More impressive is that fact that you obviously have never had a problem with profitability. I can see that I am truly in over my head here.
I now realize that in order to run a profitable business and do my part to call out the unlicensed, un-capable, un-ethical handymen/plumbers in this industry, i need to resort to violence. Thank you again for opening my eyes. I have much to learn. I'm not worthy. I have hit rock bottom, and now realize I have nowhere to go but up.

Seriously, though, I was very excited to see this forum, as I do have some serious questions about my business, as I'm sure most everyone on here does. I apologize for "blasting" you about your comment. If it was a joke, I don't get it. After re-reading it, there's no joke there. 

I have posted questions before on here and not rec'd a whole lot of good help or suggestoins, rather I see several (and not all) people on this forum who prefer to use this forum to broadcast out how great they are, how dumb everyone else is, and how "If I'd been there, I'd have done this". It's easy (and apparently lots of fun!) to second guess everything you see, however shortsighted it is.

In the future, I'll look at posts here as light topics of converstion, open to any and all comments, however inane (look it up). 
It was my mistake in assuming that this forum for professionals in my business would actually care about improving this industry by sharing their experiences and successes (and failures). I believe that truly is the nature of this site, and many still hold true to that concept. 
I'll be more careful of my posts in the future, and I'll try not to assume that everyone on this forum is looking out for others on here. Once again, that was my mistake, not to be repeated.

TotalPlumber


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## Dr Steevil (Jan 25, 2009)

TotalPlumber,

I'm new here, but not new to forums in general. One of the biggest problems with the nature of forums is no one really "knows" the others who lurk in them. Never met them, don't know what they look like, and most certainly have little to no understanding of their mannerisms. All we have to go on is typed words. Take any message spoken to you from two different people and you could infer different meanings from them based on their "delivery style" so to speak. 

So, we must all try to keep that in mind before we "say" something that can be perceived as a personal attack. And no, I am not passing any kind of judgement on anyone, nor am I taking any sides or anything like that. After all, who am I?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Oh Total Plumber, 


I'm certainly not the best plumber on how to run a business; all I have to do is post a picture of my truck to prove that. 


Since this forum has failed to meet your expectations in helping you to learn how to run a business,

Please, ask any questions you feel that you can benefit from and I'll do my best to help you. There are a lot of smarter/more intelligent plumbers on this site than me and I know that....I'm just more vocal of a different side of this profession. 

You take it as better, I take it as the explanation that's never discussed.


SO,

I have to go and fix a leaking 3 hndle faucet right now, I'm going to have a pressure gauge in my hand when I arrive because I know for every cause there is an effect, and I make sure I give full disclosure of how that is a bad thing. Then I'm going to lay out why protection is needed, start to finish and hammer the website to go and see the proof of my statements, the pictures of others who've listened to me and why the importance is NOW to correct this problem once and for all.


You don't have to like me as a person but you should really take hold of some of the ways I generate a income, and you won't find anywhere on the internet where I place my knowledge higher than anyone elses.

We're all in this together, some are just unaware of what years in the trade will do to you, dealing with the same thing day after day after day.

And if you're that thin skinned on the internet, by god you are going to get destroyed in this profession over time by not grabbing hold that it's an interesting ride and you have to make the most of it.

I'm done with my






session here. 


Ask away, I'll be your ****** here and make a point of making you a better business owner.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

:confused1:
No need to take everything so serious totalplumber. roastduck is a nutty joker.:jester: As far as the forum. Its just a fun place to chat and share ideas with other plumbers. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## arkyplumber (Jan 10, 2009)

Man I think you made the right call. You can look at it this way. You got some work out of the deal, and will do more for the contractor. Chances are you will be called back anyways to fix what they put in, and in this case hit them were it hurts, THE POCKET!!!!!!!!!


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Plumber said:


> I saw an ad by a unlicensed plumber in Craigslist. I called him, set up a appointment for service, gave him the address, phone number, everything.
> 
> The info I gave him was for the local licensing board.
> 
> ...


That is soooooooooo awsome. I love it. You da man. Hope it's OK I'm gonna steal that one.


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