# ABS Pipe



## user5848

I've always heard and excepted it as a given that abs pipe is not allowed in a commercial building, but I can't seem to find any code reference to that effect. I'm in California and we use the CPC which is based on the IPC, but there is nothing in there that would indicate that it's unacceptable for commercial construction. I assume it's a flame spread issue. Is it perhaps in the building code?














Tryin' to get back to as close to good as it almost once was.


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## grandpa

A.T.C. said:


> I'm in California and we use the CPC which is based on the IPC,
> 
> .


 
Au contraire...the California Plumbing Code is based on the UPC.

Chap. 15 talks about materials, and ABS is OK with the proviso that there must be approved firestopping, and it points out that BUILDING codes will have further restrictions regarding WHERE it may be used. As far as I know, residential up to 3 stories is allowed, commercial has further restrictions on ABS. Consult local building codes.


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## U666A

Never seen ABS above grade in any of the larger commercial projects I've ever worked on. Always cast and copper, or PVC with XFR compounding. I'm fairly certain it is not allowed due to FS/SD regulations. All the firestop in the world won't help with a penetration that will support combustion.

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## pipe doc

here in UT. the fire stop for ABS in commercial is the only limiting factor.


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## user5848

Thanks for all the info, guys. I'll dig a little deeper into the building code. So it's definitely a flame spread issue, right?


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## user5848

grandpa said:


> Au contraire...the California Plumbing Code is based on the UPC.


 
Oops. Thanks.














Tryin' to get back to as close to good as it almost once was.


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## ToUtahNow

There are a lot of reasons plastic DWV is not allowed in muti-story residential and most commercial. Flame spread is part of it but it is also because no one knows what the next tenant will use the DWV for.

Mark


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## user4

ToUtahNow said:


> There are a lot of reasons plastic DWV is not allowed in muti-story residential and most commercial. Flame spread is part of it but it is also because no one knows what the next tenant will use the DWV for.
> 
> Mark


Once it gets above 5 stories plastic starts pulling itself apart.

And since when are GC's welcomed on these forums?

Especially the ones in Taxifornia where it is legal for them to steal work from plumbers?


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## user5848

Thanks for the info, Killer. To answer your question, ever since _you _were allowed on Contractor forums, I guess. I already went through this bull$h!t at my intro. I *AM *a plumber. I'm just good enough to build structures and install electrical, also. As I said before, if you don't like California State Law, take it up with the CSLB.


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## user4

A.T.C. said:


> Thanks for the info, Killer. To answer your question, ever since _you _were allowed on Contractor forums, I guess. I already went through this bull$h!t at my intro. I *AM *a plumber. I'm just good enough to build structures and install electrical, also. As I said before, if you don't like California State Law, take it up with the CSLB.


No, you're a GC that thinks he's a plumber, there is a difference, which is easily shown by the question asked in this very thread.

As far as Taxifornia law, the whole state couldn't fall into the ocean fast enough to please me, they are responsible for more harebrained legislation than the other 49 states combined.


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## user5848

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I couldn't give a rats a$$ about your opinion about me or the state of California. I read alot of threads on Plumbing zone, and I think alot of you are a bunch of babies here. Grow up. You're plumbers. You do a good job. Congratulations. There are alot of other trades people out there who do a good job and take pride in there work also. Plumbers aren't the Only or the Greatest. And you shouldn't be so ignorant as to think that California legislation has anything to do with the trades people working in the state.











Tryin' to get back to as close to good as it almost once was.


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## user4

A.T.C. said:


> Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I couldn't give a rats a$$ about your opinion about me or the state of California. I read alot of threads on Plumbing zone, and I think alot of you are a bunch of babies here. Grow up. You're plumbers. You do a good job. Congratulations. There are alot of other trades people out there who do a good job and take pride in there work also. Plumbers aren't the Only or the Greatest. And you shouldn't be so ignorant as to think that California legislation has anything to do with the trades people working in the state.




Spoken like a true wanna be plumber. Most plumbers have a license issued by their states health dept., because the plumber does protect the health of the nation, do you have this license, or do you merely use the bizarre license process used by the state of Taxifornia to put people at risk due to your lack of knowledge?

I shudder to think how many people you could poison if you ever chose to work on a dentists office, but you have no idea what I am talking about anyway.


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## ToUtahNow

California is way to lacks in their Contractors Law but so are a bunch of other States. The idea of three non related trades was really meant for larger contractors and times past. There was a time when the GC would pull all of the permits and then hire the subs. 

In the last 5-years or so California has gotten a little better at verifying experience. It is a step in the right direction but they need to do a lot better in other areas as well.

Mark


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## user5848

Funny you should mention that, Killer. I'm in the process of finishing up a dental office remodel as we speak. I was recommended by the dentist next door who's office I also remodeled. Plumbing included. Nice talking to you, Killer











Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## U666A

[quote="] I read alot of threads on Plumbing zone, and I think alot of you are a bunch of babies here. Grow up. You're plumbers. 
[/quote]

Well... Go back to your contractor forum and insult your peers there. Ok, so many welcomed you, some questioned your credentials and some flat out refused to accept you. This is why Le Zone is great. The diversified opinions of many many different plumbing professionals. If you are that offended by a couple of snide remarks, do a search on a couple of topics like side jobbing, organized labour, or silicone vs. Putty and you will realize that you are not being singled out, that is just the way the zone operates.

But you come into our house, bragging that you lack credentials, (even though your bass ackwards state allows any functioning retard with a pulse perform skilled labour) and call me and my brothers and sisters a bunch of babies?!?





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## Redwood

Killertoiletspider said:


> No, you're a GC that thinks he's a plumber, there is a difference, which is easily shown by the question asked in this very thread.
> 
> As far as Taxifornia law, the whole state couldn't fall into the ocean fast enough to please me, they are responsible for more harebrained legislation than the other 49 states combined.


Waiting on the big one eh? :laughing:

I remember years ago when I lived out in Idaho lots of people were saying "Don't Californicate Idaho" :laughing:

It's probably happened by now though...


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## RealLivePlumber

A.T.C. said:


> Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I couldn't give a rats a$$ about your opinion about me or the state of California. I read alot of threads on Plumbing zone, and I think alot of you are a bunch of babies here. Grow up. You're plumbers. You do a good job. Congratulations. There are alot of other trades people out there who do a good job and take pride in there work also. Plumbers aren't the Only or the Greatest. And you shouldn't be so ignorant as to think that California legislation has anything to do with the trades people working in the state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tryin' to get back to as close to good as it almost once was.


 
Yes, we are:yes:


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## U666A

Sorry mods...

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## user5848

UA, Thanks, and right back at ya. Sorry, I read your post before Slickrick cleaned it up for ya. And thank you for proving my point. I've read alot of your posts, and you seem like a very knowledgeable tradesman who takes pride in his work, like alot of guys I worked along side of in the IBEW. But some of you guys go around picking fights with people, hence my comment about babies. This isn't a school yard. It's supposed to be a professional forum, and quite frankly, professionalism is lacking sometimes. It was a relatively mild comment. Secondly, I'm a professional builder who has studied everything from construction history, to electrical theory, to plumbing science, to timber frame and alternative building practice, greywater harvesting, landslide remediation, masonry, and on and on. I love my trade and the work I do. When I got my contactors license I planned on getting my B, C-10, and C-36. As I studied California State Contractor License Law, I discovered that to do the work I was trained in, I only needed a B license. Not my fault. I don't make state law, but I do have to follow it. Now you guys claiming that a Contractor in California is not a plumber because California has different laws than your state is just pure ignorance. Honestly, I don't care what a bunch of people on an online forum think, but I've taken the time to write this because I do enjoy talking to fellow professionals, and learnig all I can about my chosen profession. If some of you are still unsatisfied, that's too bad. Come Monday morning, I have a job to do, regardless of what people think about my qualifications. Thats pretty much up to the inspectors and my clients. Thanks













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## user4

A.T.C. said:


> UA, Thanks, and right back at ya. Sorry, I read your post before Slickrick cleaned it up for ya. And thank you for proving my point. I've read alot of your posts, and you seem like a very knowledgeable tradesman who takes pride in his work, like alot of guys I worked along side of in the IBEW. But some of you guys go around picking fights with people, hence my comment about babies. This isn't a school yard. It's supposed to be a professional forum, and quite frankly, professionalism is lacking sometimes. It was a relatively mild comment. Secondly, I'm a professional builder who has studied everything from construction history, to electrical theory, to plumbing science, to timber frame and alternative building practice, greywater harvesting, landslide remediation, masonry, and on and on. I love my trade and the work I do. When I got my contactors license I planned on getting my B, C-10, and C-36. As I studied California State Contractor License Law, I discovered that to do the work I was trained in, I only needed a B license. Not my fault. I don't make state law, but I do have to follow it. Now you guys claiming that a Contractor in California is not a plumber because California has different laws than your state is just pure ignorance. Honestly, I don't care what a bunch of people on an online forum think, but I've taken the time to write this because I do enjoy talking to fellow professionals, and learnig all I can about my chosen profession. If some of you are still unsatisfied, that's too bad. Come Monday morning, I have a job to do, regardless of what people think about my qualifications. Thats pretty much up to the inspectors and my clients. Thanks


You couldn't have spent much time on the plumbing studies if you don't know what code your state uses, or the properties of the materials you claim to be qualified to install, either that or you flunked it but it didn't matter since the state allows you to do the work without approval from the states board of health.

I wonder if it is going to take an epidemic of cholera to convince Taxifornia that they can't let any mouthbreather that can get a GC license to perform any skilled trade they feel they are qualified for.

No wonder it is the most expensive state in the union to live in, everything about it is more screwed up than a soup sandwich.


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## SlickRick

I was reading the requirements, and it said any project over $500.00 requires a C36 to be a plumbing contractor in Cali. 100 questions. Heavy duty test.


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## U666A

I hereby rescind this post as it no longer reflects my opinion.

Original cussing and "cry baby" attitude apply once more.


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## user5848

My state uses the CPC. I stated that in my first post. That would indicate a knowledge of which code is used. The model that it's based on is of secondary importance. Second, I don't know the reason behind everything we do all the time, but I always try to find it. Yes , California has stupid laws. I didn't make them. There are bad plumbers everywhere and good ones, but you can't determine if someone is a good plumber or bad based on the licensing laws of the state they happen to live in.













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## user5848

UA , Thanks. I said some not all behaved like babies. Mr Mod, you are partially correct. In Cali, you must have a contractors license to contract over $500. A General may perform ALL trades except fire sprinkler and well drilling. The job must contain at least 2 unrelated trades. For example, I will also paint on a remodel that I do*, b*ut I can't go bid a strictly painting job unless I also have a Paint & Decorators license*. *Same with Plumbing and Electrical. Crazy? Perhaps. But again, I don't make the rules, but I do have to follow them.













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## SlickRick

Crazy, absolutely.

So if a person performed only plumbing, they would have to have the C36.


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## user5848

Yes, thats correct.













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## user4

A.T.C. said:


> There are bad plumbers everywhere and good ones,


And there are GC's that think they can call themselves plumbers because they read a book on how to commit plumbing and the state considers that a qualification. And code can speak volumes about your qualifications as a plumber, or lack thereof.

The guys on this forum that have studied the craft to become educated in the trade can work anywhere with a few adjustments, you don't even know the properties and limitations of the stuff you install on a regular basis, let alone the basic properties of materials you don't use.

ABS isn't allowed in the state I live in, but I know it's properties, applications,and limitations anyway, because it is a material used in the trade.


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## user5848

Killer, you may or may not be a good plumber. I may or may not be a good plumber. But you have no idea, because we've never been on the same job before. You assume that because I have a "B" license and not a "C-36" that therefore I just read a book or two about plumbing and am now taking food out of your kids mouth. Well, if that's what makes you feel good about yourself, great. Good for you. Nice chatting.













Cuando estoy en mi casa. rey soy


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## user4

A.T.C. said:


> Killer, you may or may not be a good plumber. I may or may not be a good plumber. But you have no idea, because we've never been on the same job before. You assume that because I have a "B" license and not a "C-36" that therefore I just read a book or two about plumbing and am now taking food out of your kids mouth. Well, if that's what makes you feel good about yourself, great. Good for you. Nice chatting.


I have no idea what you are talking about when you start stating Taxifornia licenses that are completely worthless anywhere else in this country. I have little faith in the skills of anyone that has to ask in a public forum how to interpret their own states code, and not know what the code is based on. The fact that you can't comprehend the limitations of the products you are installing merely compound my disdain for your qualifications to perform the plumbing trade, and I pity the communities that allow you to put their population at risk.

But please keep thinking you are qualified to call yourself a plumber, the rest of the membership will enjoy getting a chuckle out of it every time you do.


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## user5848

I didn't ask anyone how to interpret the CPC. And maybe it hasn't yet occurred to you, but I couldn't give a flying rats a$$ about your "disdain for my qualifications". The only thing I can figure out is you must be some hillbilly from the midwest who doesn't like "them ther' kalifernians". Pero a mi no me preocupo porque en poco tiempo california va a ser nuesto pais otra ves.













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## user4

A.T.C. said:


> I didn't ask anyone how to interpret the CPC.


The initial post in this thread was asking for that, specifically.

Please quit before you just embarrass yourself more than you already have, everyone here already knows you no business calling yourself a plumber.


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## user5848

Hey amigo, every day I go to work and most days I do plumbing *and get paid to do it.* You sound jealous to me.












Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## user5848

You are from the midwest, aren't you? And your journeyman on your first job probably emotionally abused you, didn't he? But it's not your fault. You've probably become a great plumber by now. Don't feel bad.














Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## user4

A.T.C. said:


> Hey amigo, every day I go to work and most days I do plumbing *and get paid to do it.* You sound jealous to me.



You sound like someone that is grasping at straws to defend their right to do work they are not qualified to do, but I don't live in Taxifornia, so I don't have to worry about getting poisoned from your ignorance, so it's all good. Kill off the whole state, the country would be better served if you do.


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## user5848

I'm pretty sure the hillbillies in Missouri are gonna die from drinking their own $h!t infested water before los californians do













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## user5848

Do you even have any idea what you're talking about? What makes you think I poison people? You're the hillbilly, Not me.













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## user5848

I keep looking over my my shoulder thinking Slickrick is coming to tell us we've gone off topic


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## plumber666

I installed a new grill, steamer and bakery steam oven yest. at the local college campus. Love Saturday time and a half work! It was a pretty complicated repipe of gas, steam and drain lines, but me and the nephew got er done in 9 hours and it looked and worked great.
Friday we did a walk-about with the facilities manager looking at the job and I saw an area with a large one piece demonstration kitchen. Stove, oven and sink, island style on wheels with an angled mirror over it so the kids can see the instructor prepare stuff. 
Laying on his back fighting with a fernco and piece of ABS was a GC that's been doing work at the college for years, works cheap and is a total goof. I asked the fac. manager why wasn't i doing that work? He said don't even look at that job, it was a different managers pet project and rolled his eyes.
I've known this GC for years, huge ego, and can't stand getting bugged. Worked with him many many times, but the way the college works, we don't work for him we work for the college. So if he ever tried to tell me what how or when to do my job I just roll my eyes.
I walked over to him and said, wow, looks like I wasted 4 years of my life doing an apprenticeship if any clown can do this kind of work!
He said, when they want it done fast and done right they call me.
I said, Awesome, but unless you cut another 1 1/2" off that piece of ABS you'll never fit 'er in.
He was tying in the drain for the sink upstream of an old abandoned unvented grease trap and doing a total hack job of it. 
Must have cut the 1 1/2" off the ABS cause on Saturday the floor was patched and the pipe was sticking out of the floor (crooked). Nephew said Nice work! I said, yeah, wonder where the waterlines are gonna come from.
If I see him around with a torch in his hands I'm phoning the city inpections dept, cause where I live you have to be a plumber to do plumbing.


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## Redwood

It's your own doing...
Some people just don't know when to stop talking.... :no:


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## ToUtahNow

Not that it matters much, I could not find "*A.T.C - General Contractors*"or"*A.T.C*" listed in the CSLB data-base.

Mark


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## U666A

Uh-oh... The truth cometh out!

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Bill

A.T.C. said:


> I keep looking over my my shoulder thinking Slickrick is coming to tell us we've gone off topic


maybe, maybe not. But I am here telling you to simmer down.


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## user4

A.T.C. said:


> I'm pretty sure the hillbillies in Missouri are gonna die from drinking their own $h!t infested water before los californians do





A.T.C. said:


> Do you even have any idea what you're talking about? What makes you think I poison people? You're the hillbilly, Not me.





A.T.C. said:


> I keep looking over my my shoulder thinking Slickrick is coming to tell us we've gone off topic


This is why I try to avoid debating with idiots, they merely drag you down to their level and then pummel you from experience.

Resorting to name calling and petty insults does little more than prove you are in way over your head, and it is the signal for me to walk away from the topic.


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## Bill

Thanks KTS. Wish everyone would think like that.


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## smoldrn

A.T.C. said:


> I didn't ask anyone how to interpret the CPC. And maybe it hasn't yet occurred to you, but I couldn't give a flying rats a$$ about your "disdain for my qualifications". The only thing I can figure out is you must be some hillbilly from the midwest who doesn't like "them ther' kalifernians". Pero a mi no me preocupes porque en poco tiempo california va a ser nuesto pais otra ves.
> 
> mmm..tal vez


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## ILPlumber

¿Qué tal escribir en Inglés por lo que el moderador no tiene que traducir todo.

No espero que el rey de Inglés. Pero sí espero ser capaz de moderada sin joder con un traductor.

Thanks for you future cooperation....


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## ToUtahNow

A.T.C. said:


> I didn't ask anyone how to interpret the CPC. And maybe it hasn't yet occurred to you, but I couldn't give a flying rats a$$ about your "disdain for my qualifications". The only thing I can figure out is you must be some hillbilly from the midwest who doesn't like "them ther' kalifernians". Pero a mi no me preocupes porque en poco tiempo california va a ser nuesto pais otra ves Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


Boy talk about BS!

Mark


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## markb

ToUtahNow said:


> Boy talk about BS!
> 
> Mark


There's more BS in this thread than *A*BS


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## ILPlumber

How come the only place I can locate A.T.C. is here, contractortalk, and electriciantalk. 

Seems to me I would be able to locate a legitamate business? Are you sure you're licensed?


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## ToUtahNow

I received my C36 in 1981. Four years later I got my B1 (GC) but I kept the two businesses separate. I had a crew of 30+ with my GC business. It included tradesmen from every trade except for electrical and roofing which I subbed out. 

Mark


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## user4

I apologize for starting this pissing match, I should have known better. Even though I install pipe and tube everyday, I no longer work in the plumbing trade, and I should probably just stop visiting here.


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## Redwood

I wonder if he does Remodulation work?


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## Protech

I have service accounts in several such buildings and I have not seen anything like what you are describing.



Killertoiletspider said:


> Once it gets above 5 stories plastic starts pulling itself apart.
> 
> And since when are GC's welcomed on these forums?
> 
> Especially the ones in Taxifornia where it is legal for them to steal work from plumbers?


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## Widdershins

Protech said:


> I have service accounts in several such buildings and I have not seen anything like what you are describing.


 Me neither.

Then again, I do mid-span bracing and blocking on all vertical runs (though seldom called out, it is required in my area).

The example in the photo is overkill because the vent is already supported by the horizontal run, but you get the idea.


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## Airgap

markb said:


> There's more BS in this thread than *A*BS


Well done.....

*Golf clap*


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## user5848

Well, there you go, I'm busted. I'm really a fender mechanic who sells black market yogurt on the side. I just pretend to be a GC online. Should've know better than to try and fool the geniuses at PZ. And I'd like to thank you all for the friendly and helpful advice to a simple code reference question.

https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/OnlineServices/CheckLicenseII/LicenseDetail.aspx?LicNum=944965












Cuando en mi casa extoy, rey soy


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## easttexasplumb

That ty is upside down :laughing:


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## ToUtahNow

A.T.C. said:


> Well, there you go, I'm busted. I'm really a fender mechanic who sells black market yogurt on the side. I just pretend to be a GC online. Should've know better than to try and fool the geniuses at PZ. And I'd like to thank you all for the friendly and helpful advice to a simple code reference question.
> 
> https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/OnlineServices/CheckLicenseII/LicenseDetail.aspx?LicNum=944965
> 
> Cuando en mi casa extoy, rey soy


Like I said, not that it matters much. I searched A.T.C. - General Contractors, A.T.C., A. T. C. and ATC. I even looked at the DBAs. Who would have thought it was A T C? Just as a suggestion, make sure you include your license number on all your info as a potential client would have a hard time finding you unless you only go by "A T C".


By the way, happy first year anniversary. I noticed yesterday you hit your one year mark.


Mark


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## Airgap

easttexasplumb said:


> That ty is upside down :laughing:


Not enough nail plates either.....:laughing:


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## lma1

A.T.C. said:


> I've always heard and excepted it as a given that abs pipe is not allowed in a commercial building, but I can't seem to find any code reference to that effect. I'm in California and we use the CPC which is based on the IPC, but there is nothing in there that would indicate that it's unacceptable for commercial construction. I assume it's a flame spread issue. Is it perhaps in the building code?
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tryin' to get back to as close to good as it almost once was.


Yes it’s in our Bldg Code; it’s not in the Plmbg Code (2006 BCPC).

A commercial bldg can be a “Part 3” or “Part 9” bldg according to our 2006 BC Building Code. A Pt 3 bldg can be a Group A bldg used as an assembly occupancy; a Group D building used for personal services or business with a _bldg area_ exceeding 600 m5 or exceeding 3 storeys in _bldg height_; a Group E bldg used for mercantile occupancy with the same bldg area and height restrictions as D. A Pt 9 bldg can be either a Group D or E bldg with a _bldg area_ NOT exceeding 600 m5 or NOT exceeding 3 storeys in _bldg height_.

As we all know, ABS is a combustible piping having a FSR (flame spread rating) > 100 and SDC (smoke developed classification > 200. Any combustible piping (e.g. ABS) having a FSR >25 is not permitted to be used in a non-combustible Part 3 building unless it’s concealed in a wall or concrete slab. Moreover, as its SDC > 50, it can’t be used in a _high (tall) bldg _(a precisely defined term in the Code)_._

ABS cannot be used in a Part 3 building when it penetrates an assembly required to have a FRR (fire resistance rating) unless the assembly is tested incorporating that service equipment. They are exceptions to the above: It may used to penetration the fire separations when it’s (i) sealed at the penetration w/ a FSS (fire stop system) that has an “F” rating nor less than the FRR of the fire separation, and (ii) not located in a vertical shaft. 

You can use it if leads directly from a non-combustible WC thru a concrete floor slab. It may also be located on one side of a vertical separation provided it’s not in a shaft.

Similar conditions as above apply when ABS DWV pipes are used in a Part 9 commercial bldg. For a duplex it’s permitted on one side of a horizontal fire separation.


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## Widdershins

Airgap said:


> Not enough nail plates either.....:laughing:


 It's a 2x6 wall with at least an 1-1/2" of wood left on the front -- Didn't need nail plates.:jester:


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## easttexasplumb

Widdershins said:


> It's a 2x6 wall with at least an 1-1/2" of wood left on the front -- Didn't need nail plates.:jester:


 
Nail plates are needed everywhere, once that sheet rock crew shows up with them 3" screws well you know :laughing:


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## Widdershins

easttexasplumb said:


> Nail plates are needed everywhere, once that sheet rock crew shows up with them 3" screws well you know :laughing:


Nyet.

King County's amendments to the 2006 Plumbing Code were pretty clear about their nail plating requirements.:thumbup:

I'm just kidding, of course the nail plating was finished.:innocent:

Here's another upside down Sanitary Tee, btw.


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## easttexasplumb

Looks good. Dont worry about them upside down t's, I put vent t's in upside down too. Guess it is a matter of perspective.


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## user5848

lma1 said:


> Yes it’s in our Bldg Code; it’s not in the Plmbg Code (2006 BCPC).
> 
> A commercial bldg can be a “Part 3” or “Part 9” bldg according to our 2006 BC Building Code. A Pt 3 bldg can be a Group A bldg used as an assembly occupancy; a Group D building used for personal services or business with a _bldg area_ exceeding 600 m5 or exceeding 3 storeys in _bldg height_; a Group E bldg used for mercantile occupancy with the same bldg area and height restrictions as D. A Pt 9 bldg can be either a Group D or E bldg with a _bldg area_ NOT exceeding 600 m5 or NOT exceeding 3 storeys in _bldg height_.
> 
> As we all know, ABS is a combustible piping having a FSR (flame spread rating) > 100 and SDC (smoke developed classification > 200. Any combustible piping (e.g. ABS) having a FSR >25 is not permitted to be used in a non-combustible Part 3 building unless it’s concealed in a wall or concrete slab. Moreover, as its SDC > 50, it can’t be used in a _high (tall) bldg _(a precisely defined term in the Code)_._
> 
> ABS cannot be used in a Part 3 building when it penetrates an assembly required to have a FRR (fire resistance rating) unless the assembly is tested incorporating that service equipment. They are exceptions to the above: It may used to penetration the fire separations when it’s (i) sealed at the penetration w/ a FSS (fire stop system) that has an “F” rating nor less than the FRR of the fire separation, and (ii) not located in a vertical shaft.
> 
> You can use it if leads directly from a non-combustible WC thru a concrete floor slab. It may also be located on one side of a vertical separation provided it’s not in a shaft.
> 
> Similar conditions as above apply when ABS DWV pipes are used in a Part 9 commercial bldg. For a duplex it’s permitted on one side of a horizontal fire separation.


 
Thank you very much. That's exactly what I was looking for. I only wish we'd bumped into each other first off, before all the drama. It is a bit interesting that right above us is a question about pex in commercial buildings, and the OP had no problem getting a civilized answer. Perhaps the Mods can chime in on why some people get treated this way. Ironically, neither clients, nor peers, coleagues, previous instructors, or present inspectors seem to have any issue with my qualifications, just a bunch of faceless blowhards online.
Thanks again, Ima1












Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## 422 plumber

Because you are not a plumber.


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## user5848

422 plumber said:


> Because you are not a plumber, jerky.


 
The money in my pocket and the pipes in the wall tell a whole different story.














Cuando estoy en mi casa, rey soy


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## 422 plumber

Yeah, that's what's scary. You can plumb, after a fashion, but it don't make you a plumber.


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## Widdershins

> The money in my pocket and the pipes in the wall tell a whole different story.


 I've Plumbed in Garberville, Redway, Miranda, Bayview, Briceland and Petrolia, just to name a few cities in Humboldt County quite a bit over the years -- And having dealt with a number of the Inspectors down there over those years, I can tell you most of them don't give a wet beery fart how the job is Plumbed.

Most of those aging THC saturated hippies wouldn't know a Sanitary Tee from a Combination Wye.


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## user5848

Well, there you go. You guys got it all figured out. None of you've ever met me, worked with me, seen my work, not a thing, but you're sure the work is crap. Some of you here are the biggest bunch of ignoramuses I've ever talked to. The attitudes I see displayed on this forum, and not just towards me, but towards pretty much everyone, would get you invited off any job site I've been on, whether you're good plumbers or not. You certainly wouldn't last an hour on one of mine. You're the kind of people who give plumbers a bad name. Maybe that's why I have so many clients hiring me to do plumbing. It really has been such a pleasure talking to all of you.













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## GREENPLUM

A.T.C. said:


> Well, there you go. You guys got it all figured out. None of you've ever met me, worked with me, seen my work, not a thing, but you're sure the work is crap. Some of you here are the biggest bunch of ignoramuses I've ever talked to. The attitudes I see displayed on this forum, and not just towards me, but towards pretty much everyone, would get you invited off any job site I've been on, whether you're good plumbers or not. You certainly wouldn't last an hour on one of mine. You're the kind of people who give plumbers a bad name. Maybe that's why I have so many clients hiring me to do plumbing. It really has been such a pleasure talking to all of you.


 
prove them wrong by posting up some pic of you handyworks

id like to see how good you are :thumbsup:


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## Protech

perhaps you could help us out then by posting your license # :whistling2:



A.T.C. said:


> Well, there you go. You guys got it all figured out. None of you've ever met me, worked with me, seen my work, not a thing, but you're sure the work is crap. Some of you here are the biggest bunch of ignoramuses I've ever talked to. The attitudes I see displayed on this forum, and not just towards me, but towards pretty much everyone, would get you invited off any job site I've been on, whether you're good plumbers or not. You certainly wouldn't last an hour on one of mine. You're the kind of people who give plumbers a bad name. Maybe that's why I have so many clients hiring me to do plumbing. It really has been such a pleasure talking to all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## Redwood

A.T.C. said:


> Well, there you go. You guys got it all figured out. None of you've ever met me, worked with me, seen my work, not a thing, but you're sure the work is crap. Some of you here are the biggest bunch of ignoramuses I've ever talked to. The attitudes I see displayed on this forum, and not just towards me, but towards pretty much everyone, would get you invited off any job site I've been on, whether you're good plumbers or not. You certainly wouldn't last an hour on one of mine. You're the kind of people who give plumbers a bad name. Maybe that's why I have so many clients hiring me to do plumbing. It really has been such a pleasure talking to all of you.


Does this mean that you are now leaving and heading over to Contractor Talk?

Perhaps your abrasive personality had something to do with it... :whistling2:

If you had called me acting like that, wanting a job done the call would have been dropped... Damn Cell Phone... :yes:

Usted viene a nuestra casa y mierda en la alfombra entonces usted quisiera que le demostráramos amor. NinguÌ�n le batiremos tenemos gusto del maÌ�n perro que usted es.

(You come to our house and crap on the carpet then you want us to show you love. No we will beat you like the bad dog you are.)


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## ToUtahNow

Protech said:


> perhaps you could help us out then by posting your license # :whistling2:


He already posted the link to it.

Mark


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## user5848

I would like to apologize to everyone at PZ. When I joined, the banner on top of the page said the forum was for plumbing professionals and those working in the plumbing trade. I am a professional plumber, fully licensed in my state to do the work. When I was on PZ today, the banner reads PLUMBING CONTRACTORS. If I had known that GCs were not welcome,
I would not have joined. Instead of attacking my professionalism or my credentials, all someone had to say was "Hey, we prefer Plumbing Contractors only, not GCs", instead of welcoming me to the forum and then behaving rudely when I ask a question. That was inconsiderate and unprofessional.



P.S. Could a Moderator email me instructions on deleting my membership to PZ. Thanks













Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


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## ToUtahNow

A.T.C. said:


> I would like to apologize to everyone at PZ. When I joined, the banner on top of the page said the forum was for plumbing professionals and those working in the plumbing trade. I am a professional plumber, fully licensed in my state to do the work. When I was on PZ today, the banner reads PLUMBING CONTRACTORS. If I had known that GCs were not welcome,
> I would not have joined. Instead of attacking my professionalism or my credentials, all someone had to say was "Hey, we prefer Plumbing Contractors only, not GCs", instead of welcoming me to the forum and then behaving rudely when I ask a question. That was inconsiderate and unprofessional.
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. Could a Moderator email me instructions on deleting my membership to PZ. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cuando en mi casa estoy, rey soy


With all due respect, no you are a General Contractor who through a technicality you are allowed to do some plumbing in some Jurisdiction in California. There is a significant difference.

Mark


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## Plumberman

This thing just keeps going and going......  FAIL


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## plumber666

From all of us real plumbers, thanks for leaving.


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## U666A

plumber666 said:


> From all of us real plumbers, thanks for leaving, a$$hole.


Seconded

Sent from my iPhone using Hatred and rage!


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