# I hate



## I'mYourTourGuide (Jun 23, 2008)

Having to drill through a floor joist, but how else can you keep 10" from bottom of fixture to dip of trap seal on a tub with rough cut 2"x10" floor joist? lol

Anyone else run into this type of problem before, or are you guys allowed a further distance than 10" to swing the trap assembly?


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## threaderman (Jun 17, 2008)

IPC allows a running trap serving the tub/shower.I think the trap has to be with-in 36",I'm not sure ,it's 4:30 am and I'm not looking it up.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

UPC / Oregon amendments allow 24"

10" is just unreasonable.


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## I'mYourTourGuide (Jun 23, 2008)

threaderman said:


> I think the trap has to be with-in 36",I'm not sure ,it's 4:30 am and I'm not looking it up.


Lmao :laughing:


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Unless the tub is running along the joist instead of across it, why not simply use a direct outlet tw&o.


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

threaderman said:


> IPC allows a running trap serving the tub/shower.I think the trap has to be with-in 36",I'm not sure ,it's 4:30 am and I'm not looking it up.


 I did'nt know the internet was on at 4AM.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*We get a max of 24" for standpipes here also, except for laundries.*

*The rule HERE for drilling joists is NO more than 1/3 the width of the joist with at least 2" of material above & below the hole.*

*Anything else and you consult the builder, they can box (frame) for exceptions where necessary.*


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Am I the only one who does not understand what the OP is asking? I am completely lost as to what he is talking about.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Am I the only one who does not understand what the OP is asking? I am completely lost as to what he is talking about.


I don't understand it myself.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Wow. I was almost scared to ask. Makes me feel better.


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## masterk (Jun 20, 2008)

I agree it does not add up.


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Hate to say it: But it flat out says general contractor in every post he post. He might be a license plumber? I'm not saying he is or not a license Plumbing contractor. Just pointing out what I have notice


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

3Kings Plumbing said:


> Hate to say it: But it flat out says general contractor in every post he post. He might be a license plumber? I'm not saying he is or not a license Plumbing contractor. Just pointing out what I have notice


I notice that as well.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*The plot thickens....*


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Keep in mind, that one can be a contractor and be a plumber also, when I was in business I had to hold a plumbing contractors license which can be classified as a GC license depending on what you wanted to do, and how much insurance you needed to be one. I was never a GC, did not want that category. as will as an individual license.


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

As a Plumbing Contractor, we are asked to bid work that is for the most part plumbing (duh), but in California, in order to subcontract out some of the work to other trades, it's required we have a General Contractors licence.
The main reason for this requirement is that the state wants a contractor to be aware of Contractor law, IE: Liens, pre-liens, responsibilities, etc. and have a general understanding of each trade.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

*Washer DWV*

Since it's an *I HATE* thread. I hate running W/M DWV. :furious:

J.C.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

JCsPlumbing said:


> Since it's an *I HATE* thread. I hate running W/M DWV. :furious:
> 
> J.C.


Why? what is so different then running the dwv for a kitchen?


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## I'mYourTourGuide (Jun 23, 2008)

3Kings Plumbing said:


> Hate to say it: But it flat out says general contractor in every post he post. He might be a license plumber? I'm not saying he is or not a license Plumbing contractor. Just pointing out what I have notice


What are you talking about? I hold a master plumber's license in KY . . and you're only allowed 10" from the bottom of the fixture to the dip in the trap seal.

Ky doesn't go by UPC, IPC, or anything like that. . . .When some stuff may be similar, everything else is very different.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

I'mYourTourGuide said:


> What are you talking about? I hold a master plumber's license in KY . . and you're only allowed 10" from the bottom of the fixture to the dip in the trap seal.
> 
> Ky doesn't go by UPC, IPC, or anything like that. . . .When some stuff may be similar, everything else is very different.


*And I thought My state (MA) was different.*


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

*W/m Dwv*



Ron The Plumber said:


> Why? what is so different then running the dwv for a kitchen?


I have to be 35" above the FINISHED floor. Minimum 24" trap standpipe-Maximum 48" to the trap weir. Gotta be careful or that will get you up in the joists. Plus you've got to increase pipe size to 3" within 6'. (I like-and usually do it immediately) You cannot have a trap on an exterior wall unless it's 6" framing. And no, you cannot drill 2" through the adjoining stud near the box to run your trap to the vent. Even double studded. I make a concerted effort to get the trap underneath on a crawlspace or above on a slab for the problems that always occur down the road. 

Alot to think about. Everything must be right or you're cutting. The reason I emphasized FINISHED floor. If the customer changes their mind and puts tile with Durock, you'll notice a couple of the required measurements get outta whack and......you're cutting it out. 

Why isn't it different than DWV for a kitchen? 

J.C.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

*Drop*



I'mYourTourGuide said:


> What are you talking about? I hold a master plumber's license in KY . . and you're only allowed 10" from the bottom of the fixture to the dip in the trap seal.
> 
> Ky doesn't go by UPC, IPC, or anything like that. . . .When some stuff may be similar, everything else is very different.


It sounds like KY has an engineer with an ego or a tendency to cya. Typical that I've always seen/heard is 24" from bottom of the fixture to the trap WEIR. 

There is such a large % difference between 10" to 12" (dip) and 24" that it sounds like the code council or person coming up with it is working on "theoretical" happenings rather than actual real world results. This requirement would also effect pipe distance measurements, venting, & drainage sizing. 

I've always wanted to see a test with clear pipe setup within the code tolerances and then also setup outside the code tolerances to actually SEE what would happen. 

Engineers are some of the smartest people around at times. They're also human and make mistakes. Ever seen "Engineering Disasters?" :yes:

J.C.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

JCsPlumbing said:


> I have to be 35" above the FINISHED floor. Minimum 24" trap standpipe-Maximum 48" to the trap weir. Gotta be careful or that will get you up in the joists. Plus you've got to increase pipe size to 3" within 6'. (I like-and usually do it immediately) You cannot have a trap on an exterior wall unless it's 6" framing. And no, you cannot drill 2" through the adjoining stud near the box to run your trap to the vent. Even double studded. I make a concerted effort to get the trap underneath on a crawlspace or above on a slab for the problems that always occur down the road.
> 
> Alot to think about. Everything must be right or you're cutting. The reason I emphasized FINISHED floor. If the customer changes their mind and puts tile with Durock, you'll notice a couple of the required measurements get outta whack and......you're cutting it out.
> 
> ...



Sorry for you, we can drill studs and 2" is all it takes here, no increase here,


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

*Which Code?*

Which Code are you under?

J.C.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

UPC with Oregon amendments.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

*Boring?*

Does the UPC with Oregon amendments have it written that you can bore 2" horizontally in 2x4 framing? Curious....:whistling2:

J.C.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Building code will dictate that, we will drill to 3" if space is limited. either that or move stud if possible.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

Want to be friendly. So I hope you take my questions that way. But I don't understand. 

All codes overlap into the "building" code. For example, the framing/structural/"building" code and the plumbing code will have the boring rules in both of them. 

So if the "building" codebook says you can't bore a 4.5" hole in a 2x10-the code will coincide in the plumbing codebook.

So (friendly ) What does the UPC w/Oregon amendments state about boring 2" (Pipe Size) horizontally in 2x4 framing?

J.C


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Boring holes is not covered in the upc code book, check for your self, I have linked to our code.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

Thanks!

J.C.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

*No Code!!!*

Hey Ron, I poked around in Oregons Code and can't find it in the plumbing OR the building code!?!? It's like they don't have one. :001_huh:

I can't decide if that's good or bad. 

If you only deal with 1 inspector, GREAT! :yes:

But if you have several, SUCKS! :no: 

Could be so many interpretations.

J.C.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I think any longer then 10" and the tub or shower is going to drain real loud....I bet my bushes on it :yes:

boring is not in the UPC, but I tell you what...those inspectors will catch you on it...I have heard..

I know that if I go to the City Of Los Angeles Building Dept, they will supply me with boring / drilling reg's in regards to wood and aluminum construction.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

We've got ALL kinds of things to do on boring. Pain in the but with 2 or 3 story houses. And this is no criticism I hope to anyone. But based on what I've read and the pics I've seen, the West Coast is less stringent on this which is very surprising. Especially with earhtquake this and that I'm sure gets enforced that we don't have here. I always thought of everywhere other than N.C. more strict and we were behind the times. Maybe not so much. 

J.C.


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## I'mYourTourGuide (Jun 23, 2008)

Dang, I've got one heck of a good topic started, lmao.

10" from bottom of fixture to dip in trap, EXCEPT on laboratory waste from chemical sinks. They're allowed 12" with 2 bowls on one waste if no further than 5' from center of one bowl to the other.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

*Boring Floor Joists*

I hate the requirements of NC & the IPC for boring floor joists. Understand them, just don't like doing them.

J.C.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*For us it's no larger than one third the width of the joist, MUST have at least 2" of material above & below the hole.*
*On TGI joists it's a whole different ballgame, you gotta have the chart to know where and how large you can drill.*


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *For us it's no larger than one third the width of the joist, MUST have at least 2" of material above & below the hole.*
> *On TGI joists it's a whole different ballgame, you gotta have the chart to know where and how large you can drill.*


And we can't drill in the middle 1/3 span AND we have to put 1/2" minimum plywood 4' long on both sides of the joist with fasteners 4" on center. :blink:

Frustrating.

J.C.


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

I tried to edit Ron but it wouldn't let me on the last post only. 

The grain of the plywood must be horizontal. And if you use 3/8", you're ripping it down. 

J.C.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

JCsPlumbing said:


> And we can't drill in the middle 1/3 span AND we have to put 1/2" minimum plywood 4' long on both sides of the joist with fasteners 4" on center. :blink:
> 
> Frustrating.
> 
> J.C.


Are you talking 2xs here or I-Joists?


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

2x's. That's involved with the building code with that big ol' section on wood as I understand it. 

Engineered lumber is just that. You do whatever the engineers say that you can do with it. So each system has their own little booklet you can ask for or probably get online. 

J.C.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Keep in mind, that one can be a contractor and be a plumber also, when I was in business I had to hold a plumbing contractors license which can be classified as a GC license depending on what you wanted to do, and how much insurance you needed to be one. I was never a GC, did not want that category. as will as an individual license.


I am a licensed class B contractor with building endorsement on my license so that makes me a GC, I can build houses, pull building permits, but I am also a licensed master plumber.


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