# Studor vent code



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Is their a code in UPC or IPC that states you must have at least one vent terminate through the roof in a bathroom group??? The plumber remodeling at my church has plumbed in two new bath rooms one with three urinals two labs and one wc and another with three lavs and two wc. And used all studor vents. It is a single story building and Thers no reason he couldn't go out the roof... I hate it all of it. He piped all the water in pex... And has two pex crimp 90 s under the slab along with his pex to copper transition... I feel that I must step in before this is covered with concrete... I am a trustee so I have the rite to give input .... Any help on code or how to approach him in a respectful manner would be great


----------



## DesertOkie

I think UPC said all you could use aav on were island sinks. That was the 06 book I think. When I get home I will look up the IPC from what I remember they were vague on the subject. The aav will not cut it for a bathroom group. I re-vented two bathrooms at a casino for the same reason. They had studors in the walls, sideways, you name it. They still hired the same guy for an addition.


----------



## AlbacoreShuffle

Id just call in the local inspector and let him break the news to him.


----------



## Mississippiplum

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Id just call in the local inspector and let him break the news to him.


That's what I would do too


----------



## DesertOkie

I would try the old "Wow your stupid" thing. I've found that it works great for getting people to do stuff your way.


----------



## Mississippiplum

DesertOkie said:


> I would try the old "Wow your stupid" thing. I've found that it works great for getting people to do stuff your way.


:laughing: :laughing;


----------



## greenscoutII

With the IPC, theoretically it would fly.... That code requires only one vent, of at least 1/2 the diameter of the building drain to go through the roof. Everything else can be AAV. Where I'm from, the building dept amended the code so that a guy could only Studor for island sinks and where running VTR is "structurally impracticeable".....

The UPC would never allow a goat fu*k show like that to fly........:no:


----------



## Master Mark

*best thing so far*



AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Id just call in the local inspector and let him break the news to him.


I think that the only thing ever written about studor vents is they have to be at least 6 inches above the flood rim of the highest fixture and they have to be in 
a spot that has* easy access* for when they need to be changed out....

Just call the inspector, and tell him what you think is wrong, just do it before the plumber gets there...

 and let him tangle with the plumber with you standing on the sidelines at this point....:whistling2::whistling2:

you might as well let the inspector be the bad guy at this point...


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

I can't find any thing on studor vents in my 2009 UPC book ... But I did find about the underground. (slab) connections,,, he hit a copper water line and pro press to couplings on it. And for a new connection he pressed a fip on and then crimped an mip and has two crimp 90 under slab I can't find a code about the crimp 90 but I did read if you must make a connection of copper under slab it must be brazed!!! I think that he needs to braze on to the copper and run copper up and out of wall !! Deleting all the press and crimp connections under slab!!!! And I think I will call the city tomorrow!!!


----------



## beachplumber

In nc (i think they are state changrs though) u must have a 3" vent or direct 2" vent (residential). If u have one atmospheric all other fixures can b mech vented.


----------



## Widdershins

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I can't find any thing on studor vents in my 2009 UPC book ... But I did find about the underground. (slab) connections,,, he hit a copper water line and pro press to couplings on it. And for a new connection he pressed a fip on and then crimped an mip and has two crimp 90 under slab I can't find a code about the crimp 90 but I did read if you must make a connection of copper under slab it must be brazed!!! I think that he needs to braze on to the copper and run copper up and out of wall !! Deleting all the press and crimp connections under slab!!!! And I think I will call the city tomorrow!!!


The UPC has never formally adopted them.

Acceptance in areas where the UPC is the prevailing code has always been through amendments adopted by the AHJ.

Adoption requirements vary from location to location.


----------



## The real E.P.

You never use aav's unless you absolutely have too ..... Only hacks use aav's


----------



## Mississippiplum

The real E.P. said:


> You never use aav's unless you absolutely have too ..... Only hacks use aav's


You hit the nail on the head, we only use em if there is no other way to vent the fixture. Which 99.99999% of the time we can find a way to vent the fixture with out the use of a hackor vent.

Hackor vent = studor vent that's what I call them lol


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

This is rite under the roof!!! And like I said it's a one story building !!! Just lazy!!!


----------



## Titan Plumbing

This is a church job, right? You know how difficult doing work for a church can be...prolly beat him up on his price so bad he didn't have a choice...I'm just guessing.


----------



## Redwood

Titan Plumbing said:


> This is a church job, right? You know how difficult doing work for a church can be...prolly beat him up on his price so bad he didn't have a choice...I'm just guessing.


Not only that but now he has some churchgoer plumber beating the hell out of him for extras....:laughing:


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Titan Plumbing said:


> This is a church job, right? You know how difficult doing work for a church can be...prolly beat him up on his price so bad he didn't have a choice...I'm just guessing.


Yes church job. And he is a sub of the interior designer !!! She spect. The fixtures but not the material or installation requirements!!! There's three studor vents. They even vent the water closets... And no I don't think we haggled him at all. The price she gave had all subs and her fee in it. I have no idea what his price is... He is a master and owner ... I am a journeyman.... But know hack work when I see it and feel I must say something to someone!!! These are pics of his pro press and crimp pex fittings under the slab !!!! UPC states u must braze any copper under slab


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Redwood said:


> Not only that but now he has some churchgoer plumber beating the hell out of him for extras....:laughing:


I'm on the board of trustees !!! It's part of my duty and the board specifically asked me to keep an eye on the construction !!! I was a big reason that we remodeled the restrooms !!! I'm not asking for extras!! Just a quality job!!!! Witch is what I expect!!! He's getting good money we should get good plumbing!!!!


----------



## ranman

its under AAV it is there it is up to each city to amend or go by manufactures install requirements.




TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I can't find any thing on studor vents in my 2009 UPC book ... But I did find about the underground. (slab) connections,,, he hit a copper water line and pro press to couplings on it. And for a new connection he pressed a fip on and then crimped an mip and has two crimp 90 under slab I can't find a code about the crimp 90 but I did read if you must make a connection of copper under slab it must be brazed!!! I think that he needs to braze on to the copper and run copper up and out of wall !! Deleting all the press and crimp connections under slab!!!! And I think I will call the city tomorrow!!!


----------



## Titan Plumbing

PVC looks okay...


----------



## Tommy plumber

That's alot of fittings on the water pipe under the slab. Guess no one thought about a permit?.....:whistling2:


----------



## Mississippiplum

Wow that is the definition of a piss poor job, that pex was just threw in there :laughing: atleast the guy didn't use hackbites under the slab lol


----------



## Plumb Bob

Local inspector here in Calif will not allow studor vents ever. Not to mention Upc requires toilets to be vented on minimum 2" pipe, I have only seen studor vents in 1 1/2". Sounds like the guy is a hack.


----------



## Titan Plumbing

Plumb Bob said:


> Local inspector here in Calif will not allow studor vents ever. Not to mention Upc requires toilets to be vented on minimum 2" pipe, I have only seen studor vents in 1 1/2". Sounds like the guy is a hack.


FYI, they make Studors in a combo of 1-1/2 and 2" and I've even seen a 3"...


----------



## revenge

You have to have at least one vtr on a fytem like that down here 4 inch min for it to pass and that's if there's no other way


----------



## Plumbus

Studor vents (air admittance valves) are not allowed by UPC as part of a venting system .


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

I spoke with the chairman of the trustees and I'm meeting with him tomorrow after work at the church to tell him what needs to be fixed....


----------



## mccmech

Redwood said:


> Not only that but now he has some churchgoer plumber beating the hell out of him for extras....:laughing:


LMAO! Sooooo true.


----------



## Titan Plumbing

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I spoke with the chairman of the trustees and I'm meeting with him tomorrow after work at the church to tell him what needs to be fixed....


Well...


----------



## Michaelcookplum

IPC allows studer vents aav just about anywhere.... I love the IPC, UPC guys can suck it


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Michaelcookplum said:


> IPC allows studer vents aav just about anywhere.... I love the IPC, UPC guys can suck it


I don't know IPC but it seems that UPC may be a stricter code.... So who sucks ?? The guy with the slack code or the guy with the strict code??? In Tx we can use either...


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Titan Plumbing said:


> Well...


Well. I told him my concerns and he spoke to the plumber who said that's what he bid.... and he could do a change order to 
do the underground in copper.... And when a guy on the finance committee heard about it he said that they will never approve it.... He knows nothing about plumbing,... But is in control of the money. 
The plumbing passed inspection today and will stay the way it is... But Thers a difference in plumbing that meets code and plumbing done the rite way..... His way has 11 connections underground( that's counting both sides of the 90 ) witch were crimp, threaded, and propress ... The correct way would have one coupling...... sil flos 15% that's only two connections. But the suit at the church doesn't get it !!!!


----------



## greenscoutII

Michaelcookplum said:


> IPC allows studer vents aav just about anywhere.... I love the IPC, UPC guys can suck it


 
UPC guys can suck it huh? :whistling2:

I learned to plumb on the UPC and I believe it to be a superior code. I guess the upside to the IPC is that damn near anything will fly as long as the fittings face the right direction and the pipe runs downhill.......

Heel vents, unlimited trap arm length on water closets, run an 1 1/2" dirty arm for a lav five or so feet, wet venting between floors. It's all good......:thumbsup:


----------



## Titan Plumbing

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Well. I told him my concerns and he spoke to the plumber who said that's what he bid.... and he could do a change order to
> do the underground in copper.... And when a guy on the finance committee heard about it he said that they will never approve it.... He knows nothing about plumbing,... But is in control of the money.
> The plumbing passed inspection today and will stay the way it is... But Thers a difference in plumbing that meets code and plumbing done the rite way..... His way has 11 connections underground( that's counting both sides of the 90 ) witch were crimp, threaded, and propress ... The correct way would have one coupling...... sil flos 15% that's only two connections. But the suit at the church doesn't get it !!!!


Not being a smarty, but I kinda figured that's how it would go.


----------



## Mississippiplum

I can't believe that passed inspection, that shiot is ridiculous, well atleast when those joints under the slab start to leak you can say I told you so


----------



## The real E.P.

greenscoutII said:


> UPC guys can suck it huh? :whistling2:
> 
> I learned to plumb on the UPC and I believe it to be a superior code. I guess the upside to the IPC is that damn near anything will fly as long as the fittings face the right direction and the pipe runs downhill.......
> 
> Heel vents, unlimited trap arm length on water closets, run an 1 1/2" dirty arm for a lav five or so feet, wet venting between floors. It's all good......:thumbsup:


What's wrong with multi floor wet venting???


----------



## Plumberman

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Well. I told him my concerns and he spoke to the plumber who said that's what he bid.... and he could do a change order to
> do the underground in copper.... And when a guy on the finance committee heard about it he said that they will never approve it.... He knows nothing about plumbing,... But is in control of the money.
> The plumbing passed inspection today and will stay the way it is... But Thers a difference in plumbing that meets code and plumbing done the rite way..... His way has 11 connections underground( that's counting both sides of the 90 ) witch were crimp, threaded, and propress ... The correct way would have one coupling...... sil flos 15% that's only two connections. But the suit at the church doesn't get it !!!!


If all joints under slab have to be brazed per your code. (Same here) then how did it pass?


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Titan Plumbing said:


> Not being a smarty, but I kinda figured that's how it would go.


Well that's your experience coming in to play!!! And me trying to make a difference !!!! But you get what you pay for and evidently we didn't pay for much!!! I wouldn't even have bided it with pex underground or all the studor vents but that'me.... It's very frustrating... But my hands are tied and they are pouring tomorrow....


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Plumberman said:


> If all joints under slab have to be brazed per your code. (Same here) then how did it pass?


He was using IPC I think. In Tx you can UPC or IPC. And the city allows studorvents pretty much any where... Plus he knows the inspectors well. It just sucks a big one.. When it does leak I will say I told you so!!!


----------



## Titan Plumbing

Since this has turned into a Code discussion thread...If CPVC can have joints under the slab...What's wrong with soft soldering?


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

I don't really know ... But that it's against code... What I was taught is that brazing is a stronger joint ( if done properly and allowed to cool slowly) and that's why if you must make a connection you braze it!! But in theory you don't ever want to make a connection under slab... Here we daisy chain it!! Into a common wall and then back under slab to fixture !!!


----------



## Titan Plumbing

I understand and do the same here. However, how many soft joints out in the yard have you ever seen fail?


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Titan Plumbing said:


> I understand and do the same here. However, how many soft joints out in the yard have you ever seen fail?


Not many cause I'm not in service. But I'm guessing that you haven't seen many fail ???? But I have seen a lot the fail, weep, leak, and rot in mech rooms... I'd figure that it would do it in the ground also... But I mite be wrong... Off subject a bit... If i were building a house for myself I'd run all water in the attic with pex, and use a valved manifold with all strait runs to each fixture and use copper stub outs.. So the only connections would be at manifold and in wall rite under the fixtures


----------



## The real E.P.

Titan Plumbing said:


> Since this has turned into a Code discussion thread...If CPVC can have joints under the slab...What's wrong with soft soldering?


It's because the ground will react with the flux / solder not to mention any copper underground has to be not less than 3/4 and has to be k or l.... In ontario


----------



## Tommy plumber

Plumberman said:


> If all joints under slab have to be brazed per your code. (Same here) then how did it pass?


 




I'm thinking there wasn't any permit, see post #21.


----------



## greenscoutII

The real E.P. said:


> What's wrong with multi floor wet venting???


Haven't you been told? If a guy wet vents between floors the world will come to a sudden cataclysmic end!!!:laughing:

Truthfully, I was just busting that other guy's balls for saying UPC guys can suck it..... I work with both codes and there are parts of each I like and parts I don't.


----------



## sikxsevn

I like that metal strapping used to secure the pex...

Also that it's all red pex, what, are they flushing toilets with hot water?


----------



## Mississippiplum

sikxsevn said:


> I like that metal strapping used to secure the pex...
> 
> Also that it's all red pex, what, are they flushing toilets with hot water?


Home depot ran out of blue pex so he used red


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Tommy plumber said:


> I'm thinking there wasn't any permit, see post #21.


No ther was a permit. The city inspector was there when we showed up


----------



## Tommy plumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> No ther was a permit. The city inspector was there when we showed up


 




Did it fail with all those fittings on the water lines under the slab?


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

No it passed!!!! I can't believe it did!!!! I'd never do that so I didn't think it would pass. My city code sucks!!!!


----------



## Mississippiplum

That inspector must be smoking somethin funny cause I can't see how that would pass, it shure as hell wouldn't pass here.


----------



## user7551

In the state of texas each city has the choice of either ipc 2006 or the upc 2006 and can make amendments as they see fit. As for fittings under the slab , pex fittings are not allowed under the slab per code. Some citys allow propress under the slab depends on the city , as for the copper under the slab all copper under an occupied building shall be brazed period in our code books if its outside the building it can be soldered.and if that shyt u posted really passed then u must live in a small town here in texas because bubba the dog catcher must have doing the inspections that day.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

playme1979 said:


> In the state of texas each city has the choice of either ipc 2006 or the upc 2006 and can make amendments as they see fit. As for fittings under the slab , pex fittings are not allowed under the slab per code. Some citys allow propress under the slab depends on the city , as for the copper under the slab all copper under an occupied building shall be brazed period in our code books if its outside the building it can be soldered.and if that shyt u posted really passed then u must live in a small town here in texas because bubba the dog catcher must have doing the inspections that day.


I'm in Abilene and it passed. I know the inspector that passed it. It's a shame what they allow !!! But I had no idea I'm like you and never thought it would pass!! I'm strictly mech and commercial. I don't use pex or propress!!! And even if I did I'd be fired if I plumbed that way. Btw. I use 2009 UPC Where are you located if you don't mind ???


----------



## user7551

I'd like to know how in the city of Abilene you are under the ipc 2009, now dont get me wrong the 2009 is a better code than the 2006. But in Texas we have a choice of either the ipc 2006 or the upc 2006 u can check that out at the tsbpe website and intill they change the two codes for the state there shouldnt be any city in the state under the 2009 right now . I'm located in the dfw area but we have jobs all over the state right now.

I just checked out the abilene building inspections website and they are under the 2009 thats interesting but it is a better code that has been updated and they have taken alot of the bs out of it that was in the 2006


----------



## Tommy plumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> No it passed!!!! I can't believe it did!!!! I'd never do that so I didn't think it would pass. My city code sucks!!!!


 




If fittings aren't permitted below slab unless they're brazed, then the inspector must be a real handy-hack. Sadly in some jurisdictions, one does not need to be a plumber in order to become a plumbing inspector.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

playme1979 said:


> I'd like to know how in the city of Abilene you are under the ipc 2009, now dont get me wrong the 2009 is a better code than the 2006. But in Texas we have a choice of either the ipc 2006 or the upc 2006 u can check that out at the tsbpe website and intill they change the two codes for the state there shouldnt be any city in the state under the 2009 right now . I'm located in the dfw area but we have jobs all over the state right now.
> 
> I just checked out the abilene building inspections website and they are under the 2009 thats interesting but it is a better code that has been updated and they have taken alot of the bs out of it that was in the 2006


Well I wish they would enforce the dam code here!!! But I guess they use that AHJ power!!!! I would never plumb that way but this hack did and he is a master!!! I voiced my opinion and got shut down by the finance committee


----------



## nhmaster3015

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Is their a code in UPC or IPC that states you must have at least one vent terminate through the roof in a bathroom group??? The plumber remodeling at my church has plumbed in two new bath rooms one with three urinals two labs and one wc and another with three lavs and two wc. And used all studor vents. It is a single story building and Thers no reason he couldn't go out the roof... I hate it all of it. He piped all the water in pex... And has two pex crimp 90 s under the slab along with his pex to copper transition... I feel that I must step in before this is covered with concrete... I am a trustee so I have the rite to give input .... Any help on code or how to approach him in a respectful manner would be great


I didn't read through the whole thread and somebody probably already said this but under the IPC you need one vent through the roof not one VTR for each group, just one vent so if there is one somewhere in the building then the AAV's do meet code. The pex 90's under the slab though, do not


----------



## Richard Hilliard

Keep in mind all codes are minimum standards for that specific area. Personally I want our craftsmen to go above minimum standards.


----------



## brass plumbing

*Protect pipe from cement*

Should the pex pipe be shielded when brought up thru the floor? We use the armor-flex foam insulation. The "clamps" used have the pipe against the wall, leaving no room for shield. That would be a warranty issue, imho.


----------



## surfdog

tar and feather then call inspector


----------



## plumb nutz

Ok so the 06 IPC code for AAVs do not require any vent to be terminated outside (local codes may differ, but straight IPC does not have this requirement)

As far as the water piping, code refers to the manufactures installation instructions. I don't work with pex often, so I'll leave that to someone else....

And one other thing...wet venting is only allowed on the same floor, not different floors


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Richard Hilliard said:


> Keep in mind all codes are minimum standards for that specific area. Personally I want our craftsmen to go above minimum standards.


Yes. That's what try to do. Sadly a lot don't


----------



## 6th Density

In my neck of the woods the only thing you can't vent via AAV is a restroom or bathroom.

Try bidding a health clinic job around here with 8 to 10 single comp sinks in it all spread out over a 4,000 square foot building.

The attitude that AAV's are shoddy craftsmanship just cost you a cake job with 5,000 to 7,000 dollars in profit.

I always give a VE deduct for AAV's (where allowed) to help save the owner money.

The part that hurts the most is when the damn owner throws the job out again for a rebid and adds an addendum for installing AAV's at all sinks!:furious:


----------



## plbgbiz

Redwood said:


> Not only that but now he has some churchgoer plumber beating the hell out of him for extras....:laughing:


No disrespect intended to you Tex but the guy gave a price for a certain level of work that would pass inspection. He is responsible to the GC and the person(s) writing the checks. You are neither. Often times a church project will have all the corners cut just to meet an unrealistic budget set by people with no clue as to the need and cost of a quality job.



TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> ...She spect. The fixtures but not the material or installation requirements!!!...
> ...And no I don't think we haggled him at all...
> ...I have no idea what his price is...


You may not have haggled him, but you can bet your sweet bippy that she did. Like all GC's, she probably allowed the budget to be determined prior to getting specific prices or input from her subs.

Then she split the budget up between different trades based on her own best guess and then shopped for a plumber that could deliver a passed inspection under that dollar amount.

Then you come along demanding champagne workmanship on the unmovable beer budget. You should have seen this coming.



TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> ...I'm not asking for extras!! Just a quality job!!!!...
> ...He's getting good money we should get good plumbing!!!!


YES YOU ARE. And you have no idea what he got paid. For all you know, he may have been doing this job for free because she promised him a profitable job next time. :whistling2:



TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Well. I told him my concerns and he spoke to the plumber who said that's what he bid.... and he could do a change order to do the underground in copper...


Here's the conversation between the plumber and the GC...
_"Now look! You demanded a $.079 crap bid on this project that I didn't even want. And I went along because you keep promising better profits on the "next one". Now there's some yahoo over there that claims he's a plumber ripping my work to shreds when all I was doing was trying to meet your unrealistic budget. So here's the deal, if you want all the quality I tried to get you to pay for but you refused, somebody's gonna have write me a check...IN ADVANCE!"_

Vent through the roof? That is going to be a change order requiring A LOT of extra money!
Are you going to have a roofer install the flashing? That is going to be a change order requiring A LOT of extra money!
Copper under the slab? That is going to be a change order requiring A LOT of extra money!

If your congregation (or the person they all designated) isn't willing to pay for that level of craftsmanship, then you have no basis for complaining about it. Why be a thorn to the plumber. He's not the problem here.



TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> ...But you get what you pay for and evidently we didn't pay for much!!!


Yep. :yes:

You voiced your opinion. And that sounds like all they're going to let you do. Now let it go.

Don't be that _"I told you so"_ guy. Someday there will be a problem with what was installed. Just work with your congregation to fix it and stay focused on the bigger reasons you go there every week.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

plbgbiz said:


> No disrespect intended to you Tex but the guy gave a price for a certain level of work that would pass inspection. He is responsible to the GC and the person(s) writing the checks. You are neither. Often times a church project will have all the corners cut just to meet an unrealistic budget set by people with no clue as to the need and cost of a quality job.
> 
> You may not have haggled him, but you can bet your sweet bippy that she did. Like all GC's, she probably allowed the budget to be determined prior to getting specific prices or input from her subs.
> 
> Then she split the budget up between different trades based on her own best guess and then shopped for a plumber that could deliver a passed inspection under that dollar amount.
> 
> Then you come along demanding champagne workmanship on the unmovable beer budget. You should have seen this coming.
> 
> YES YOU ARE. And you have no idea what he got paid. For all you know, he may have been doing this job for free because she promised him a profitable job next time. :whistling2:
> 
> Here's the conversation between the plumber and the GC...
> "Now look! You demanded a $.079 crap bid on this project that I didn't even want. And I went along because you keep promising better profits on the "next one". Now there's some yahoo over there that claims he's a plumber ripping my work to shreds when all I was doing was trying to meet your unrealistic budget. So here's the deal, if you want all the quality I tried to get you to pay for but you refused, somebody's gonna have write me a check...IN ADVANCE!"
> 
> Vent through the roof? That is going to be a change order requiring A LOT of extra money!
> Are you going to have a roofer install the flashing? That is going to be a change order requiring A LOT of extra money!
> Copper under the slab? That is going to be a change order requiring A LOT of extra money!
> 
> If your congregation (or the person they all designated) isn't willing to pay for that level of craftsmanship, then you have no basis for complaining about it. Why be a thorn to the plumber. He's not the problem here.
> 
> Yep. :yes:
> 
> You voiced your opinion. And that sounds like all they're going to let you do. Now let it go.
> 
> Don't be that "I told you so" guy. Someday there will be a problem with what was installed. Just work with your congregation to fix it and stay focused on the bigger reasons you go there every week.


No offense taken !! I see all your points and a lot of it is this is my first time to deal with church politics !!! And yes the finance committee has no idea what good plumbing is!!! The trustees asked me to keep an eye on all the work, and keep them informed.... He is her exclusive plumber and didnt have any competing bids!!!! I am not a biz owner and know that there are lots of aspects to bidding and owning that I don't know but I would hope when I reach that point I will have standards and stick by them even if it means I lose a job or two!!! The fittings under slab is something I was taught never to do and all I can think is 5' of copper and a coupling and a stick of sil floss wouldn't have changed the bid that much!!! But again he mite have to buy a whole roll of copper just to get that 5' so you never know!!! I dint like the way he plumbed the pex, I don't like the way the church commites contradict each other!!! But I'm just a young journeyman plumber and I'm on the bottom of the totem pole!!!


----------



## plbgbiz

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> ...I would hope when I reach that point I will have standards and stick by them even if it means I lose a job or two!!!


I hope that for you as well. There's a lot of ugly plumbing that happens out there. And too many plumbers are willing to cut too many corners. 

I think it's great that you recognize the shoddy workmanship and are willing to make a stink. You did good. :thumbsup: 

But at some point it's just out of your hands.


----------



## PlumberShep

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Well. I told him my concerns and he spoke to the plumber who said that's what he bid.... and he could do a change order to
> do the underground in copper.... And when a guy on the finance committee heard about it he said that they will never approve it.... He knows nothing about plumbing,... But is in control of the money.
> The plumbing passed inspection today and will stay the way it is... But Thers a difference in plumbing that meets code and plumbing done the rite way..... His way has 11 connections underground( that's counting both sides of the 90 ) witch were crimp, threaded, and propress ... The correct way would have one coupling...... sil flos 15% that's only two connections. But the suit at the church doesn't get it !!!!


I am confident that the fitting manufacturers dont approve those fittings for under-slab use.If they dont approve the application, then neither does the IPC. You would think that even a layman in a suit could see why it is a bad idea to have fittings under the slab, but I guess not.
As far as Studer vents, the Ipc allows their use on just about everything provided that one vent stack or stack vent terminates outdoors.(IPC 917.3 and 917.7)So if the remodel DWV is part of an existing system that has at least 1 VTR, then it would pass IPC code.But like you say, just because it is acceptable doesnt mean it is a good idea.My area uses IPC and the only place that I would ever use one is an island sink or in a situation where it would be accessable, and nothing else was feasable.IMHO, they are counter-active to the purpose of venting a system because they only admit air.


----------



## surfdog

how did this guy get the job really really baaad the plumbing regulators should take care of him lol


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Tile is set and a floor drain is 1 1/4 " to low. I doubt that it will in screw up that High and even if it does it will have to be grouted in!! But it's not my mistake so il let it go and see how they fix it!! I'd bet they will Jerry rig it!!!


----------



## Mississippiplum

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Tile is set and a floor drain is 1 1/4 " to low. I doubt that it will in screw up that High and even if it does it will have to be grouted in!! But it's not my mistake so il let it go and see how they fix it!! I'd bet they will Jerry rig it!!!


Wow lol, post some pics of the Jerry riggin they do to fix it.


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER

Well I bet they will just pull the grate out of the c I drain body and support it some how. Then grout it in and no one be the wiser... Till the support loosens and the grout breaks up !!! I saw it this morning and just walked out !!! Pisses me off!!!


----------



## Mr Jay

Some jurisdictions do allow the use of AAV's (Air Admittance Valves). The AAV has to be sized for the application. Some are designed for branch line applications and some are for stack applications. Within each plumbing system, a minimum of 1-stack vent or vent stack must extend outdoors to open air (at least in my jurisdiction). Individual vents, circuit vents, branch vents and stack vents are permitted to terminate with the connection of an AAV. The only thing about branch line AAV's they are to vent only fixtures that are on the same floor. AAv's must be accessible for service. Stack type AAV's located in the attic must extend 6" above the insulation. Branch type AAV's must be stamped ASSE 1051 and stack type AAV's must be stamped ASSE 1050. I rarely use AAV's unless it involves removing allot of drywall or tearing a customers house apart to find a vent. In these instances, or when installing piping for an island type kitchen sink I rarely use AAV's. They do however, in cases provide the plumber with a different scenario for handling a venting issue.


----------



## bikefitter0

if you follow the manufactures instruction it says you need one main vent stack per dwelling, every thing else can be done with studor. do i agree ?


----------



## bikefitter0

sorry guys,. i only read first page before i replied


----------



## drtyhands

bikefitter0 said:


> sorry guys,. i only read first page before i replied


Guilty as charged here as well.


----------



## nhmaster3015

Mr Jay said:


> Some jurisdictions do allow the use of AAV's (Air Admittance Valves). The AAV has to be sized for the application. Some are designed for branch line applications and some are for stack applications. Within each plumbing system, a minimum of 1-stack vent or vent stack must extend outdoors to open air (at least in my jurisdiction). Individual vents, circuit vents, branch vents and stack vents are permitted to terminate with the connection of an AAV. The only thing about branch line AAV's they are to vent only fixtures that are on the same floor. AAv's must be accessible for service. Stack type AAV's located in the attic must extend 6" above the insulation. Branch type AAV's must be stamped ASSE 1051 and stack type AAV's must be stamped ASSE 1050. I rarely use AAV's unless it involves removing allot of drywall or tearing a customers house apart to find a vent. In these instances, or when installing piping for an island type kitchen sink I rarely use AAV's. They do however, in cases provide the plumber with a different scenario for handling a venting issue.


You know what's easier than having to remember all that crap? Never using the pieces of crap in the first place. Problem solved :thumbsup:


----------



## plbgbiz

nhmaster3015 said:


> You know what's easier than having to remember all that crap? Never using the pieces of crap in the first place. Problem solved :thumbsup:


You're so rude NH. The fellas had a nice little thread going here to you came along and spoiled it with common sense. :laughing::jester:


----------



## A-PLUMBER911

Pex 90's under the slab????? NO WAY!!!!


----------



## sidekick

Wow! I hoping you have access to them all? If not have him puyrchase access pannels to them all commercial grade stainless steel type.


----------

