# friends



## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Going to my friends house this weekend. He has so far tried to pry free advice and told a handyhack friend of his what I said. I'm thinking if I do all he needs do it will be around 40 billable hours. I will give a friends discount but thinking about demanding full balance upfront. I'm very sure he will insist buying all parts to try to save a dollar. I could be walking out the door one less friend. I'm ranting cause he has broken a few promise in the past. Any advice would be great.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Friends don't let friends work for them.

Seriously, it doesn't sound much like a friend, anyway. If it was a friend, you wouldn't be thinking twice. For my real friends, I will do anything without hesitation.

Don't go.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

You are getting ready to lose a friend, that doesn't sound like a real friend at all.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Keep the friend and tell them why you don't want to do it. Don't just tell them you value their friendship.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

The part that sucks I need the money. I rather not go there and be tough. If anybody else went there it would cost him what 85-150 hour. I am going rather cheap


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

patrick88 said:


> The part that sucks I need the money. I rather not go there and be tough. If anybody else went there it would cost him what 85-150 hour. I am going rather cheap


lol-- Treat him like a customer then....which you are, anyway.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

I have a Friend that owns to restaurants and I eat there often.
I don't get free meals and he doesn't get free plumbing. 

I do give him a good deal though.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

A simple task should be free to friends 

But a full blown job is full price.... Discuss the job and price while you are going over what he wants before starting.....

Show what you normally charge and what he gets it from you at a friends price...

I would not start until he agrees upon the scope of work and the price associated with it...


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> A simple task should be free to friends
> 
> But a full blown job is full price.... Discuss the job and price while you are going over what he wants before starting.....
> 
> ...


Thank you.
I have helped him in the past. Plumbing helping him move and the whole time telling him I will charge for this job. 
He has already took it upon him self to buy h/d water heater and two bemis toilets. 
The whole job will be two toilets, lab vanity w/faucet, water heater. He doesn't want the tankless of the oil burner. Shower valve. New zone added to garage. Might need new oil fired heater. Is having pressure problems. I'm told now his water might taste like plastic. Lol there looks to be some time for diagnosing pressure etc. He also wants to add a dry well for laundry, brine tank and kitchen sink. I know I'm a bit under my time as far as thinking 5 8hour days but it is a friend. I can give some. Just want tobe able to say I need $$$$ before I start. Know he is somebody to not pay on the other end. We became friends in 8th grade.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

patrick88 said:


> Thank you.
> I have helped him in the past. Plumbing helping him move and the whole time telling him I will charge for this job.
> He has already took it upon him self to buy h/d water heater and two bemis toilets.
> The whole job will be two toilets, lab vanity w/faucet, water heater. He doesn't want the tankless of the oil burner. Shower valve. New zone added to garage. Might need new oil fired heater. Is having pressure problems. I'm told now his water might taste like plastic. Lol there looks to be some time for diagnosing pressure etc. He also wants to add a dry well for laundry, brine tank and kitchen sink. I know I'm a bit under my time as far as thinking 5 8hour days but it is a friend. I can give some. Just want tobe able to say I need $$$$ before I start. Know he is somebody to not pay on the other end. We became friends in 8th grade.


What does he do and done for you ??


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> What does he do and done for you ??


That's a good question. Lol. He is the Guy I call when I need somebody to talk to. That's about it really. Lol. His was the house we all partied at. I guess he really hasn't been a good friend. Sadly but I still call him a friend. Still will give him a break on price. I'm not going to count my drive to his place. I'm am going to dictate the proper course of action. He has said the delivery guys will put in the fridge washer and dryer. So I'm not touching those. He already had a saddle valve for the fridge. What really gets me is he has a symons temp trol that is leaking. The home inspector told him its 20 to fix it. I said then let him. Cause it will cost much more cause the parts start around 25 plus the extra tools. Then the handyhack in Florida calling trying to fish for answers. The whole while trying to say I don't know what I'm talking about. I just say who holds the license. Why don't these other guys? I know I'm ranting. I should charge 75-85 hour. I should really be charging more like 80 hours of time cause I looked at a bunch of houses with him. Plus the time I spent looking at prices. Etc......


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Isnt it funny how "friends" need you when they dont have money. But call other guys when they dont need free plumbing???


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

At a discounted price make sure he knows he's your gopher, helper and the designated lunch buyer. And no I'm not talking Mickey D's. Chinese one day Italian the next...


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Your enemies do not call you to work for them......

Therefore, charge him.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*so true....*



victoryplbaz said:


> Isnt it funny how "friends" need you when they dont have money. But call other guys when they dont need free plumbing???


 
I had my share of freinds like this guy back a long time ago....call you only when they need something done

this "freind of yours probably thinks of you like a chump that he calls over only when he needs something done and he supplies you a few beers or drinks while you are doing the work..
maybe some left over pizza if you are lucky..

and while you are working, you overhear him talking to a couple of other beer-drinking buddies on the phone and he says what a great blast they had last week on his boat, in his house...or out on the town together .....they probably never even considered inviteing you out on the town with them but have the nerve to mention all the good times in front of you .:yes::yes:...


these are folks you simply have to outgrow and get away from.

they dont want your freindship, only your free labor with the promise 
of maybe some-day letting you be their freind......


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Supposedly you would think real friends wouldn't ask you to give your lively hood to them for free, but obviously that's not true.


So, I only have plumbers that are friends, that solves the problem.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

patrick88 said:


> Thank you.
> I have helped him in the past. Plumbing helping him move and the whole time telling him I will charge for this job.
> He has already took it upon him self to buy h/d water heater and two bemis toilets.
> The whole job will be two toilets, lab vanity w/faucet, water heater. He doesn't want the tankless of the oil burner. Shower valve. New zone added to garage. Might need new oil fired heater. Is having pressure problems. I'm told now his water might taste like plastic. Lol there looks to be some time for diagnosing pressure etc. He also wants to add a dry well for laundry, brine tank and kitchen sink. I know I'm a bit under my time as far as thinking 5 8hour days but it is a friend. I can give some. Just want tobe able to say I need $$$$ before I start. Know he is somebody to not pay on the other end. We became friends in 8th grade.


I have several friends from high school I work for. FULL PRICE! They pay and expect nothing less. Two of them were my best friends. 
Why would you be expected to give work away unless you pointed them that way to start with. If you feel you must give a break figure the price, knock 10% off and otherwise treat them like any one else. Get your down payment.
But if you worry about getting balance at end of job you need to just let him get someone else. You say you need the money, can you afford to do his job?


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Agree on a price up front and get your money up front and do your end of the deal!. Friend or not you gotta get paid and he has to pay you. As OS said if you wanna give him a discount then show it on paper!


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

Give him your price upfront and get half down. A friend won't argue with that if the price is a good deal for him.
It works both ways remember, he would want paying if he did a job for you that was his everyday bread and butter.
Nothing is free.
As for handy hack calling for advice I would clip that fast.
When it comes to work related stuff he is now your customer and you submit a bid as normal, if he gets offended by this then he wasn't your friend to start with and you just bid it as a regular customer so you lost nothing anyway.

OR. Just whore your license out to his handy hack and put your name to shiot work and stay friends......


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm asking for full labor upfront. He going to try n cut every corner on what to but. Well let him buy everything and deal with the out come after. I would agree with almost everything said so far. He knows my skills. Well I have no prob saying sorry cash first or nothing. No advise. No recommendations. No being helpful in any way. 
Yes I need the money. It will cover some things I have. Would put me in a position of dropping past debt. But I will deal with the debt if I need to walk cause I will be able to know I wont get screwed on the other end. I never let a regular customer play games. I had a company backing me. I'm not a biz right now. I don't have invoices or a biz name or anything. I would rather walk than feel I might get screwed


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

All my friends are plumbers so I usually agree, drink there beer and wait for a return!:laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

patrick88 said:


> I'm asking for full labor upfront. He going to try n cut every corner on what to but. Well let him buy everything and deal with the out come after. I would agree with almost everything said so far. He knows my skills. Well I have no prob saying sorry cash first or nothing. No advise. No recommendations. No being helpful in any way.
> Yes I need the money. It will cover some things I have. Would put me in a position of dropping past debt. But I will deal with the debt if I need to walk cause I will be able to know I wont get screwed on the other end. I never let a regular customer play games. I had a company backing me. I'm not a biz right now. I don't have invoices or a biz name or anything. I would rather walk than feel I might get screwed


 
So, you are not a contractor or a business owner. Are you licensed? What about permits?

Are you currently employed?


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Yes I'm licensed. I'm a journeyman. I don't have a biz set up right this moment. Would like a part of the money from this job pay for me starting the go it alone. Lol


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

patrick88 said:


> Yes I'm licensed. I'm a journeyman. I don't have a biz set up right this moment. Would like a part of the money from this job pay for me starting the go it alone. Lol


oh. You posted this in the wrong sub-forum. It should be in the Off Topic forum. You posted in the exec restroom where business owners piss and moan.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Ahh. I assumed a basic biz question or like biz related question. My bad


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Patrick, I will put it in general discussion.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Told my friend to forget it. He basically wanted me kill more time by driving to his house and giving him a list of what should be fixed. Then from past experience. I would have countless hours of phone calls. Asking for details on what is this and that. He has already had another Guy. A friend look to see about pressure problems. He has a water softener. I said yes I know it will cause a restriction on pressure. He had the nerve to claim he didn't know I knew anything about Wells and water filtration. Well he screwed him self. I told him I'm not bothering to help him. I'm in a position to give him a huge discounted rate. No real overhead. Well he can pay full price through somebody else.
I thank all the pro's on here. Who pointed me to this out come. The blow hurt less. After a few days of thinking.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

patrick88 said:


> Told my friend to forget it. He basically wanted me kill more time by driving to his house and giving him a list of what should be fixed. Then from past experience. I would have countless hours of phone calls. Asking for details on what is this and that. He has already had another Guy. A friend look to see about pressure problems. He has a water softener. I said yes I know it will cause a restriction on pressure. He had the nerve to claim he didn't know I knew anything about Wells and water filtration. Well he screwed him self. I told him I'm not bothering to help him. I'm in a position to give him a huge discounted rate. No real overhead. Well he can pay full price through somebody else.
> I thank all the pro's on here. Who pointed me to this out come. The blow hurt less. After a few days of thinking.


 I used to rationalize scenarios like this to justify my small pool of friends. Turns out, I'm just an unlikeable a-hole.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

LEAD INGOT said:


> I used to rationalize scenarios like this to justify my small pool of friends. Turns out, I'm just an unlikeable a-hole.


Lol. 
I got on the phone with the mind set of not giving in. I didn't. He said if I wanted the job I would need to bid like everybody else and wouldn't get paid till its done. I lol. Called him out on his word and said this should have been the pay back for past work. He will be crying soon enough. When he gets his first bid.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

patrick88 said:


> Lol.
> I got on the phone with the mind set of not giving in. I didn't. He said if I wanted the job I would need to bid like everybody else and wouldn't get paid till its done. I lol. Called him out on his word and said this should have been the pay back for past work. He will be crying soon enough. When he gets his first bid.


Dont sound like to much of a friend to me.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

No. Clearly not. I think this brings to light what I have known for some time.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Drop that guy like a bad transmission.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

When I hand my friends the bill, they ask, "Are you sure that's enough?" And I tell them, yes, I charged you the same way I would charge anybody and it's a fair price. They pay me and thank me and tell me how much they appreciate me. 

You set your business cost by what it costs to do business and give you a reasonable living. Why then do you immediately start cutting the price for a friend?

Consider this: when you feel a certain way when you're dealing with someone, is it the way they wanted you to feel? If you feel that you should give someone a special break, is it because they wanted exactly that?


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Herk said:


> When I hand my friends the bill, they ask, "Are you sure that's enough?" And I tell them, yes, I charged you the same way I would charge anybody and it's a fair price. They pay me and thank me and tell me how much they appreciate me.
> 
> You set your business cost by what it costs to do business and give you a reasonable living. Why then do you immediately start cutting the price for a friend?
> 
> Consider this: when you feel a certain way when you're dealing with someone, is it the way they wanted you to feel? If you feel that you should give someone a special break, is it because they wanted exactly that?


Thank you. I really don't have overhead. I do have personal bills. I told him I would take care of him and charge a fair price. I reviewed how much I need to charge as a biz owner. I was looking forward to having the money. I say screw him. He can pay full price with parts marked up. Lol. Next time he calls I'm charging full price. I will help a friend. With the understanding he will be my gofer. I helped out another friend not long ago. He did all the bs I wouldn't do. Opening walls etc... gave him a fair price.


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## ditchdigger (Aug 12, 2012)

I operate out of a small town I haves lived here most of my life so everyone is my friend or buddy or my wife's friend or my parents friend or my kids friends parents .You do a good job charge what you normally would and don't worry about it cause if they are a (friend) they want you to make a living to


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I do agree. Really. I am not chasing a few cents or anything of the sort. My overhead right now is almost nothing except normal life bills. I am not on my own. I would haveused the profit from this job to springboard me out. The price I gave was fare for me. Well below what you or anybody would charge I'm sure. Atleast 35 an hour below the average for my state. Like I said its his loss. He can pay more


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Sounds illegal. You are attempting to work for hire with no liability insurance or masters license.

I guess that keeps the overhead down.......

I cant believe everyone is just going along with what your doing. 

This board has officially lost its testicles......

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

patrick88 said:


> I do agree. Really. I am not chasing a few cents or anything of the sort. My overhead right now is almost nothing except normal life bills. I am not on my own. I would haveused the profit from this job to springboard me out. The price I gave was fare for me. Well below what you or anybody would charge I'm sure. Atleast 35 an hour below the average for my state. Like I said its his loss. He can pay more


Clarification time....

Are you a Plumbing Business Operator or a doing this as a side job?


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

This would have been a side job. How is having permits pulled illegal? Maybe in another state you need to be a master to run a biz. Not in mass. Journeymen can. Wow some people go out of there way to try an find reasons to start bs. There has been nothing illegal going on and has never been.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

patrick88 said:


> There has been nothing illegal going on and has never been.



Yeah? What's in the baggie you just dropped?

Keep your hands where I can see them.


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## agonzales1981 (Mar 30, 2012)

Yea be careful what you say everybody here has never done anything illegal. Lmao


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Sounds illegal. You are attempting to work for hire with no liability insurance or masters license.
> 
> I guess that keeps the overhead down.......
> 
> ...


No.

Side jobs are a fact of the trades; always has been, always will be. 

There's very little for most plumbers to be loyal about as most of us work ticket time or commission.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Plumber said:


> No.
> 
> Side jobs are a fact of the trades; always has been, always will be.
> 
> There's very little for most plumbers to be loyal about as most of us work ticket time or commission.


People like you are the first ones to complain if work slows down. Or first to complain that you didn't get a raise this year. Ever wonder why you don't get that raise? Part of it is because when your boss running a legit company, hands a customer a bill and they complain. They say oh I can find someone for half that. 

You know who that cheap guy is? It's the side jobber using the bosses tools on weekends with no insurance. If you've never owned a business, I suggest trying it. You will soon find out all the bull that goes into it. 

If one of my guys brings me a job all on his own, I split the profit after overhead with him. I've had a few jobs work out this way. It keeps the employee happy, and out of trouble. Most of all it protects a legit wage. When you go for the short term gain of low price 100% profit, your short term gain is every plumbers long term loss. 

I'm sure someone will respond to this with oh what about the handy hacks and other unlicensed clowns? I'm never worried about them. Their work sucks balls. Yes they take work away in the short term but, it doesn't last and eventually they have to call someone knowledgeable. It's the guys that know what their doing that cut everyones throat.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> People like you are the first ones to complain if work slows down. Or first to complain that you didn't get a raise this year. Ever wonder why you don't get that raise? Part of it is because when your boss running a legit company, hands a customer a bill and they complain. They say oh I can find someone for half that.
> 
> You know who that cheap guy is? It's the side jobber using the bosses tools on weekends with no insurance. If you've never owned a business, I suggest trying it. You will soon find out all the bull that goes into it.
> 
> ...


That's theft when using company assets to do side jobs without permission.

I not only got permission, the boss asked me to do a few for him---neighbors and stuff.

Real side jobs, when the tradesman uses his tools, material and contacts, are as old as apprenticeships. I bet the Egyptian stonecutter's apprentice did a few gigs on the side.

Even if the plumber clocked in and out, got 40 hours pay each week year after year, got paid o.t., full benefits, vacation, etc, etc., side jobs are going to happen. Cousins, clergy, neighbors....people who ask because they know and trust him will ask and he will do it.

That said....Patrick88, you are fired.


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## fresnoplummr (Feb 25, 2011)

QUOTE: If one of my guys brings me a job all on his own, I split the profit after overhead with him. I've had a few jobs work out this way. It keeps the employee happy, and out of trouble. Most of all it protects a legit wage. When you go for the short term gain of low price 100% profit, your short term gain is every plumbers long term loss. 

Great way to do it... Well Said!!!!!!!


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

patrick88 said:


> This would have been a side job. How is having permits pulled illegal? Maybe in another state you need to be a master to run a biz. Not in mass. Journeymen can. Wow some people go out of there way to try an find reasons to start bs. There has been nothing illegal going on and has never been.


I suppose you have liabilty insurance? Dissenting opinions from mine are fine. Everyone won't have my train of thought.

I have NEVER done a job without proper insurance. EVER. I'm guessing contracting without insurance in your state is illegal. Maybe not. Anyone from Mass. care to weigh in?


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Wow never thought a simple post about helping friends. Now former friend would lead to such a nightmare. Lol
Well now I see starting a biz would involve a small biz license. I believe that's around 50 liability ins is a few hundred. I have said I hoped to use the money to springboard my biz. I really don't do side work. I have helped friends. Yes. I don't just do side work. I have been loyal to every company I worked for. Never stole any customer.


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## cbeck (Mar 7, 2012)

Starting a biz would also require a plumbing lisence to get your "tax receipt" for the county to operate as plumbing contractor. And I would recommend getting more than "just the minimum" for liability insurance.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

patrick88 said:


> Wow never thought a simple post about helping friends. Now former friend would lead to such a nightmare. Lol
> Well now I see starting a biz would involve a small biz license. I believe that's around 50 liability ins is a few hundred. I have said I hoped to use the money to springboard my biz. I really don't do side work. I have helped friends. Yes. I don't just do side work. I have been loyal to every company I worked for. Never stole any customer.


lol---imagine if this thread was still in the business forum---ya got off easy.

Do NOT start your business now. Wait a year or so for the economy to stabilize either way because the established companies will roll over you big time.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Well I have had my license for years. Not really sure why some people assume no license. 
Its very funny how I have a journeyman license. Doing legal work. Never had any problems doing work on my own and getting my work inspected. Have had inspectors walk in just to meet me and make sure I was doing quality work. I have never been fined. I have had great relationships with many inspectors. Not sure why this thread ended up like this. Don't care. I know I'm not a hack.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

ILPlumber said:


> I suppose you have liabilty insurance? Dissenting opinions from mine are fine. Everyone won't have my train of thought.
> 
> I have NEVER done a job without proper insurance. EVER. I'm guessing contracting without insurance in your state is illegal. Maybe not. Anyone from Mass. care to weigh in?


Illinois helps with this.

In Illinois to contract plumbing you must be licensed plumber and provide proof of insurance to the Illinois Department of Public health to receive a plumbing contractors license.

Failure to do so and get caught, you subject yourself to fines and possible loss of license.

As a plumbing inspector every now and then I have a licensed contractor call me about these issues. I have to respond by gathering information, receipts, permits, license numbers. If not in order I file a formal report with my local I.D.P.H. headquarters, which the regional state inspectors investigate and turn over to the Illinois Attorney General's Office to take legal action.

Illinois may be behind in a lot of things, not the plumbing code.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

GAN said:


> Illinois helps with this.
> 
> In Illinois to contract plumbing you must be licensed plumber and provide proof of insurance to the Illinois Department of Public health to receive a plumbing contractors license.
> 
> ...


And a 20000 dollar bond.

Il has a great code but no enforcement. Idph has 1 inspector for the southern 27 counties......

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> And a 20000 dollar bond.
> 
> Il has a great code but no enforcement. Idph has 1 inspector for the southern 27 counties......
> 
> Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


 
so there good at takin yer money and thats it 

this cant be true :laughing:


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

For friends I either do it for free or don't do it at all, unless you want to loose a friend, same with a relative, free or I don't have time to do it.

You start charging they think they own you, or like you said don't or can't pay then your out money and a friend.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

GAN said:


> For friends I either do it for free or don't do it at all, unless you want to loose a friend, same with a relative, free or I don't have time to do it.
> 
> You start charging they think they own you, or like you said don't or can't pay then your out money and a friend.


Same.
They pay for mats.

I tell them that now I get a free favor, so reprogram my cp, or help me move, ect ect.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

GAN said:


> For friends I either do it for free or don't do it at all, unless you want to loose a friend, same with a relative, free or I don't have time to do it.
> 
> *You start charging they think they own you,* or like you said don't or can't pay then your out money and a friend.


I disagree, if you're doing free work they make take more advantage of you. If I work for friends they get charged like everybody else and if they don't like it they can go somewhere else. I could never understand why anybody would give their time away for free.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Like I have said. He knew I was going to charge. I made it very clear. Long before the bs he pulled. I'm sure he has a handy hack friend doing the work. Lol. The Guy I'm thinking works at a movie theater. He was telling me how he wrenched a fitting on a soda machine so much he cracked it. Lol yup good choice.
Guess his house will be leaving in no time.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Titletownplumbr said:


> I disagree, if you're doing free work they make take more advantage of you. If I work for friends they get charged like everybody else and if they don't like it they can go somewhere else. I could never understand why anybody would give their time away for free.


The few that I have done, this gives me way out. If they are not satisfied or think you should have done something else or another way, or been there more. 

Your out is "I did not charge you", if you wanted it "X" way, I would have charged you.

Had a cousin I did a new house for some 20 years ago ( passive solar, with mass walls, solar shades, in ground heat pump, etc,). Gave him a good deal which he paid for, but was not there when he thought I should have been (to hell with my other good paying obligations), got a bunch of flack from him. I finished the job, to this day still don't talk much or see each other unless it is a family reunion.

From then on free or to busy........ for relatives or friends. I do a lot of volunteer work for a not for profit, which helps Shriner's hospital, habitat, breast cancer fund, schools education. Giving back is a way to help to others, So I don't have the headset to question "working for free". My family and I have always done so, although it may not be plumbing related (sometimes it is). My heritage also follows this path. The richest American Indian often has nothing, what he gains by giving to Elders and those less fortunate is priceless, something that generally gets by other cultures.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

GAN said:


> The few that I have done, this gives me way out. If they are not satisfied or think you should have done something else or another way, or been there more.
> 
> Your out is "I did not charge you", if you wanted it "X" way, I would have charged you.
> 
> ...


See this all would have been avoided by charging full price.


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

I have no probs helping friends and family out. What gets me is when I need help. I'm left high and dry. I have helped many people move, but everybody is busy when I need help. I helped family in need. Was laughed at when I had real need. Almost ended up on the street. My friend who I been talking about this whole time. I have helped him many times. I called him once to stay at his house cause I was in need. I was turned away. I still helped fix his plumbing. I had to decide spend tons of time helping a friend who has made me feel used time and time again. With promises of being taken care of later. Well later will not come. I clearly see that. I never asked for much. I have helped out plenty of people and been burned. I need to think of my self for a little while


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

My friends that call me to do their plumbing, have good paying jobs, and want me to charge them.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why we plumbers are even remotely expected to work for friends, for free or bargain rate, when these so called friends are at their job, making their normal salary, & your plumbing their house for free. :no: Sounds pretty dumb to me.

Oh my poor friend can't afford to have a plumber hook up his sink, he just got installed with his new granite counter top. Hogwash.

Now churches and habitat are different, we're talkin friends here. not charity organizations.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

GAN said:


> The few that I have done, this gives me way out. If they are not satisfied or think you should have done something else or another way, or been there more.
> 
> Your out is "I did not charge you", if you wanted it "X" way, I would have charged you.
> 
> ...


While I admire your volunteerism, you may want to check with the people you're doing the volunteer work for with regards to liability insurance. Make sure that they aren't assuming your work is covered by the liability insurance that you may or may not have. Just make sure that your good deeds are covered under someone else's insurance umbrella brother. Again, much admiration & respect to you for caring & giving back.


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