# Gotta love that CPVC



## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

Went on a call to a large 3 year old professional building today the tenat said there was water coming through the laminate floor in their suite. Went into the common bathroom behind the suite in question and found water dripping from the wall eschutcheon on a 1" flushometer. Turned off the water, dissasembled the flush valve, grabbed the angle stop WITH MY HAND and got this 















Pulled right off in my hand. Holy  how did that make it three years?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Man, you gotta ream dat chit on the outside, so you nots pushin all the glue out the joint.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

How did you fix it, is the million dollar question. 


I don't know what I'd do, because I won't make a glued connection with water pressure coming on instantly. I simply don't trust it.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*a whole bunch of glue and primer*



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> How did you fix it, is the million dollar question.
> 
> 
> I don't know what I'd do, because I won't make a glued connection with water pressure coming on instantly. I simply don't trust it.


 
you would probably have to let it set up for an 
hour or two before turning that back on..

I wonder if they make a *1 inch shark bite *
*MALE ADAPTOR*... that would been a much safeer way to repair that mess....


it would have been my apprentices luck to walk into 
that bathroom and gotten himself a large bath when he laid his hands on that valve...

you were lucky it did not give you a bath.....


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Chinese or Mexican Restaurant?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> you would probably have to let it set up for an
> hour or two before turning that back on..
> 
> I wonder if they make a *1 inch shark bite *
> ...


I am pretty sure they DO make a 1" shark bite MIP.:whistling2:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*I was thinking chineese....*



ChrisConnor said:


> Chinese or Mexican Restaurant?


China or maybe Tiawan.....


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## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

I think CPVC is an unconscionable material... but those repairs and repipes are going to keep us busy for decades.

We prefer to shark bite most repairs on this junk, but occasionally we'll use male adapters with a fast curing glue, and stand by until it's safe. In this case, I'd like to get into the wall if possible, anchor a bronze drop-ear 90 to some backing, and come out of the wall with a brass nipple. 

In other words, the way it should have been done the first time.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

cpvc glue doesn't take that long to set up. In warm conditions the set up time is like 15 minutes.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

drop ear ells and brass nipples are good things to use

that joint looked as if it was glued wet, looks newer than 3 years,


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I think nipples in general are great. They come in all sizes these days. God bless america.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

GREENPLUM said:


> drop ear ells and brass nipples are good things to use
> 
> that joint looked as if it was glued wet, looks newer than 3 years,


I was thinking the same thing about it being wet. 


​


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## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

We DO have to pay attention to our CPVC and PVC cure times way up here North of the Mason Dixon.

Below 60 F requires longer cure times... unless you prefer to get it right on your SECOND try. I always get it right the first time.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Nevermind. I tried to post the cure time chart but it didnt post it right


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I have ran enough cpvc in my little corner of the earth, it would wrap around this planet, quite a few times.:rockon:


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

Actually its a 100,000 sq ft building full of doctor's offices. The whole place is piped in that crap :no:. The problem was the hack that did this didn't bother to clean the paint off the pipe from original construction. So i cleaned the pipe glued up a new male adapter and installed a sharkbite valve in the ceiling for that toilet only. I'm turning it back on tommorrow. I thought about using a sharkbite 1" MIP adapter but the chrome sleeve for the stub won't fit over that adapter. If you look closely at the first pic you can see that the flats of the CPVC adapter are ground off to allow clearance for the sleeve.


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## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

It's still crap.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

next time instead of using the sleeve that comes with it, use like a chrome 1.25 tail piece and cut that to size. Works perfect. It will cover up the mip


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I am pretty sure they DO make a 1" shark bite MIP.:whistling2:


Yea they do.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

It is amazing what will hold for a period. I have a love hate relationship with CPVC. I love to go and fix it, every hardware store around sells it and alot of these hillbillies do their own plumbing. I hate the thought of it in a house, waiting to freeze and explode, or shattering from looking at it too hard.:laughing:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

house plumber said:


> next time instead of using the sleeve that comes with it, use like a chrome 1.25 tail piece and cut that to size. Works perfect. It will cover up the mip



And that, is someone who lives in FL, and has probably ran just as much of the chit, as I have.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I've seen a 1/2 inch cpvc 90 that was dry fit on 1st rough. Pumped up to 160 psi on 1st and 2nd rough and finally came apart on trim when he was putting a stop on. That crap holds together when you stick it. It's the 1st thing I teach my helpers, DONT DRY FIT.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

house plumber said:


> next time instead of using the sleeve that comes with it, use like a chrome 1.25 tail piece and cut that to size. Works perfect. It will cover up the mip


Actually you have to use 1.5" tailpiece and it ends up sloppy and looks like chit IMO


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

plumbrob said:


> Actually you have to use 1.5" tailpiece and it ends up sloppy and looks like chit IMO


 
Maybe I was thinking a urinal


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## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

CPVC is the modern-day equivalent of galvanized pipe. The repairs and repipes will fund my retirement in Hawaii.

I can only surmise that those who continue its use do so out of ignorance, unaware of all the superior alternatives.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

plumbrob said:


> Actually you have to use 1.5" to cover and it looks like chit IMO


 
An 1.5 tail piece would. But not a 1.25. You can make it look just like the sleeve that comes with it.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

hell, if we all just used pex, we wouldnt be having this discussion to begin with.:thumbup:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> hell, if we all just used pex, we wouldnt be having this discussion to begin with.:thumbup:


I'm surpised protech hasn't piped in yet.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

house plumber said:


> An 1.5 tail piece would. But not a 1.25. You can make it look just like the sleeve that comes with it.


a 1.25 wont fit over a male adapter not even the sweat adapter that comes with the valve


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> hell, if we all just used pex, we wouldnt be having this discussion to begin with.:thumbup:


Not on a flushometer unless you dont want it to flush


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

plumbrob said:


> a 1.25 wont fit over a male adapter not even the sweat adapter that comes with the valve


I beg to differ, if we are discussing a 3/4" urinal connection.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

plumbrob said:


> a 1.25 wont fit over a male adapter not even the sweat adapter that comes with the valve


 
What? yes it will


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I beg to differ, if we are discussing a 3/4" urinal connection.


No a 1" water closet connection


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

a 1.25 will fit over a 3/4 male. and a 1.25 will fit over a 1" sweat ring


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## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> hell, if we all just used pex, we wouldnt be having this discussion to begin with.:thumbup:


True dat.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

house plumber said:


> What? yes it will


No it wont


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

plumbrob said:


> No it wont


 
yes it will


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Pics or it didnt happen. HP, i believe you are right on this one.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

1" copper has an OD of 1-1/8" that sweat ring has a wall thickness of more than a 1/16"


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

house plumber said:


> yes it will


start a poll. Without all the pieces in my hands, I believe it would.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

And it certainly wont go over a 1" sharkbite


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I know a 1.25 will fit over a 1" sweat ring. i have had to use them when some dip sh!t rough a 10" rough water closet in at 13". The sleeve isn't long enough that comes with the flushometer. So I had to make it.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

plumbrob said:


> And it certainly wont go over a 1" sharkbite



I was talkin 3/4".


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

I used tp do alot of commercial and would run into the same problem sometimes and a 1.25 would clear the threads but not the rest but thats just my experience


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## kentdmo (Dec 15, 2008)

It stayed on there because of the sloan valve


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## SummPlumb (Feb 19, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with CPVC if it is installed correctly. When we do commercial applications that use flush valves, we stub out copper. 

Every piping material has its pros and cons.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

SummPlumb said:


> There is nothing wrong with CPVC if it is installed correctly. When we do commercial applications that use flush valves, we stub out copper.
> 
> Every piping material has its pros and cons.


 Pro Tech, your up!


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

house plumber said:


> I know a 1.25 will fit over a 1" sweat ring. i have had to use them when some dip sh!t rough a 10" rough water closet in at 13". The sleeve isn't long enough that comes with the flushometer. So I had to make it.


I love it when I'm right :thumbup:









By the way thats a l" sweat ring sitting ON TOP of a 1.25 tailpiece :laughing::laughing:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

SummPlumb said:


> There is nothing wrong with CPVC if it is installed correctly. When we do commercial applications that use flush valves, we stub out copper.
> 
> Every piping material has its pros and cons.


Nothing wrong with it in the 1st couple years. After that it's the worst pipe out there.


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## rex (Jun 13, 2008)

not sure were your located in michigan but ive been doing this a long time and rarely run into cpvc espically in commercial...must of been very low budget


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## robthaplumber (Jan 27, 2010)

Most commercial jobs I do round here spec L copper. I would never run cpvc on a comm. job. Stub out L copper on all sloan valves and install backing and strap that sheott! I can't stand a sloan valve that flops all over tha place. I don't know bout you guys but when I use public facilities, I always tug on the valves out of nature I guess. Bet I'm not tha only one.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I've been busy lately and every seems to have said everything I would have anyway 



house plumber said:


> I'm surpised protech hasn't piped in yet.


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## SummPlumb (Feb 19, 2010)

rex said:


> not sure were your located in michigan but ive been doing this a long time and rarely run into cpvc espically in commercial...must of been very low budget


 espically? 


Actually, we install it in numerous hotels and smaller commercial jobs. Copper gets eaten alive down here due to hard water. So we only run copper when someone asks and wants to pay the extra for it. 

I have been plumbing houses with CPVC since '96 with no problems. We use Flowguard Gold piping and fittings. Copper is nothing but a future problem here. I am not knocking copper, it has its proper applications, but it doesn't work well here b/c of the hard acidic water. 

Since the "green" era has begun, we are putting more CPVC and Pex in. I have no beef with either.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

rex said:


> not sure were your located in michigan but ive been doing this a long time and rarely run into cpvc espically in commercial...must of been very low budget


The building is in Pontiac I've never seen CPVC in any new construction ever, residential or commercial. The plumbing was actually done by a union contractor since gone out of business so I hear.


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## plumbrob (Mar 21, 2010)

robthaplumber said:


> Most commercial jobs I do round here spec L copper. I would never run cpvc on a comm. job. Stub out L copper on all sloan valves and install backing and strap that sheott! I can't stand a sloan valve that flops all over tha place. I don't know bout you guys but when I use public facilities, I always tug on the valves out of nature I guess. Bet I'm not tha only one.


 I can't stand a sloppy Sloan valve one of my pet peevs and yes I check every one i use.:yes:


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## Leviathan (Mar 14, 2010)

Palama said:


> CPVC is the modern-day equivalent of galvanized pipe. The repairs and repipes will fund my retirement in Hawaii.
> 
> I can only surmise that those who continue its use do so out of ignorance, unaware of all the superior alternatives.


Uh....Really?

If CPVC held up as good as Gavl, I'd use it every day.


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## Palama (Apr 8, 2010)

Leviathan said:


> Uh....Really?
> 
> If CPVC held up as good as Gavl, I'd use it every day.


Gavl? 

I think you understood the point... They're both crap.

In defense of those who used galvanize pipe, they had no other choice... It lasted many years in some cases, but that material ultimately deteriorated and required replacement.

CPVC users have other choices; I can only assume that they prefer a job where they can sniff glue.


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## PlumbingTheCape (Mar 1, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> How did you fix it, is the million dollar question.
> 
> 
> I don't know what I'd do, because I won't make a glued connection with water pressure coming on instantly. I simply don't trust it.


the glue we get here, an hour to set per bar of pressure....


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

PlumbingTheCape said:


> the glue we get here, an hour to set per bar of pressure....


 The glue we get here is an hour in the bar to set :laughing:


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Palama said:


> CPVC users have other choices; I can only assume that they prefer a job where they can sniff glue.


That's why I buy the quart size cans, so my nose will fit in there.:laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The glue joint was not done properly. Cpvc will snap off right at the ring of glue at the edge of the fitting hub before the pipe pulls out of the hub. Someone said the joint was exposed to water while it was being made up. I agree with that diagnosis.

The original installer could have just used a wing el with a brass nipple. I've repaired quite a few Sloan valves that were ripped right off the wall by some drunk trucker because they stubbed out in cpvc. I've done a few commercial repipes in pex where I stubbed threaded brass out for the urinals.

The trouble with cpvc outside the wall (especially in commercial applications) is that it is usually exposed to oils and solvents. I can't tell you how many cpvc leaks I've done in commercial kitchens. All the smoke from grease and actual liquid grease spilled on the pipes cause them to crack. In my opinion, it should be against code to install cpvc in a commercial kitchen. It's being installed in an environment where grease exposure is almost guaranteed and that is in direct conflict with the MFR's instructions.

I think the same rule should apply to Sloan valves due to mechanical abuse. Anything outside the wall or penetrating the wall must be some other approved material. Protech for plumbing code counsel '10  :laughing:


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## SummPlumb (Feb 19, 2010)

Thanks pro tech. I have have seen problems in commercial kitchens and never put two and two together on the grease. 

I will that whenever I do use cpvc, I only use the brass threaded MIP's and Fip's due to the poor performance of the plastic threads.

I have heard a rumor that they may change the brass threads to stainless soon.


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