# Please Help Identify This Water Closet!



## plumbersteve27 (Sep 5, 2018)

Hey all, 
I was asked to see if I could identify this water closet and flush valve based on this picture. That's all I have to work with.
I thought it might be American Standard or maybe Zurn for the bowl, but I can't seem to find anything with that kind of squared front like in the photo. And I'm usually pretty good at finding stuff out like this (due to the years of purchasing and being pretty good on the interwebz). 









The flush valve I just assume is Sloan and it's not a huge deal. but, if you know what it is just by looking at that (good for you btw), then I'll gladly listen. 

If anyone has any ideas, it would be greatly appreciated! 
Thanks!


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Why does it matter who made the bowl or the flushvalve ?


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Why does it matter who made the bowl or the flushvalve ?


Gotta make sure the carrier bolts line up 😂🤣


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## plumbersteve27 (Sep 5, 2018)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Why does it matter who made the bowl or the flushvalve ?


I could care less, personally. I wasn't told the ins-and-outs of it. I was just asked to find out what it was. I suppose they'd like it to match the other ones. Like I said, the flush valve probably isn't a big deal cause whatever Sloan valve we get to replace would look exactly the same anyways. 



Sstratton6175 said:


> Gotta make sure the carrier bolts line up 😂🤣


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

The flushvalve is definitely Sloan or Zurn.

The toilet looks like something Elger would make.

To me the bowl looks old. I doubt you’ll find it.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Eljer had some square front bowls. But I couldn’t find any wall hung models in a brief search.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

You're not gonna find that exact bowl.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Just take the bowl off and measure the bolt pattern. Or you could make some calipers out of plywood to wrap around the bowl and measure that way.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

skoronesa said:


> Just take the bowl off and measure the bolt pattern. Or you could make some calipers out of plywood to wrap around the bowl and measure that way.


The bolt pattern will be the same. It’s the outside edge where it hits the wall that’ll be different.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> The bolt pattern will be the same. It’s the outside edge where it hits the wall that’ll be different.


I agree, 90% of them have the same bolt pattern, he didn't say what his concern was so I guessed it was bolt pattern.

If it doesn't cover all the broken tile too bad, they can fill some in, not the end of the world.


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## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

I think I installed like 40 of those twenty years ago in an airport project. 

I think it’s an American Standard. I think those were designed to sneak an extra 3/4” (or something) for ADA purposes back in the day. Don’t hold me feet to the fire on American Standard. But I’d bet that’s what it is. Either way, the carrier should bolt up to a new toilet of almost any variety.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

It’s a Kohler Kingston 4330-0 

It’s discontinued.






Product Detail Page


Kingston(TM) wall-mounted 1.6 gpf flushometer valve toilet bowl with top inlet, requires seat



www.kohler.com


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## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

That’s right! 

Discounted like 15 years ago?


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## plumbersteve27 (Sep 5, 2018)

Thanks for the help, all. 
I guess I should have specified what the exact reason was to find the same model. They want that squared front so it matches all of the other toilets. I'm aware that _most_ bolt patterns would be the same. And wasn't really worried about the footprint on the wall. It was just the _look_ of it they wanted to match.

It looks like the Kohler K-4330-0 was it (thanks Terry), but don't know for sure. I'll just have to tell them that it was discontinued and will have to go with something else.
If anyone knows of any others that are at least a little similar in style, and aren't discontinued, let me know!

Thanks again.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I didn't know that there was a different bolt pattern. I've installed 100's of carriers.............


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

dhal22 said:


> I didn't know that there was a different bolt pattern. I've installed 100's of carriers.............



I found out during a department store renovation here at one of the malls quite a few years back, that zurn offers a "heavy duty" wall carrier for heavier loads. We had to swap out the already Cast iron zurn carriers with the heavy duty ones. Very little difference, and i feel like the porcelain would give at some point and just bust off the wall. Anyhow, found that interesting.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I found out during a department store renovation here at one of the malls quite a few years back, that zurn offers a "heavy duty" wall carrier for heavier loads. We had to swap out the already Cast iron zurn carriers with the heavy duty ones. Very little difference, and i feel like the porcelain would give at some point and just bust off the wall. Anyhow, found that interesting.


You'd be amazed the weight those porcelain fixtures can hold. Granted not all are the same, some wall hung bowls weigh more than a whole two-piece toilet. 

I can't recall the brand but several years ago I had to replace the wax seals on several ~40yr old wall hung bowls in a commercial building. The backs were much thicker than modern bowls and they weighed A LOT. Good thing too because several of the people who worked in this building weigh north of 400lbs. One carrier had to be fixed because someone large fell onto the bowl. Messed up the Sloan valve too. Bowl came out unscathed.

It would be interesting to test some. Broken porcelain is extremely dangerous though so I'm not sure I would try it.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

A friend had one split in half while a very large individual perched upon it. The guy lawyered up and sued everyone in sight.
As for the ID, isn't manufacturer's logo embossed on the top of the bowl, behind or below the seat?
a couple of decades ago, we did a remodel on a public bathroom where the existing Crane WC's were drilled to a 3 bolt pattern.
I was involved in the remodel of an 80 year old house that had a couple wall hung WC's. They replaced the wall covering behind them and 
unfortunately the new covering was thicker than the original. I had to replace the waste nipples. Of course, the old 4" gal nipples were age welded
to the plate. I had to cut the threads and chip them out. Fortunately, I was able to thread in new plastic nipples. I had no problem finding parts for 
the old Sloan valves. Sloan claims every flush valve model of theirs, since the first in 1906, can still be repaired.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

We did a couple of new Kohler wall hung toilets in a basement remodeling last year. Tank was built into the carrier so hidden behind wall.


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## Cityplumber (25 d ago)

in one of my schools, a middle school student thought it was a good idea to bounce up and down on a wall mount
toilet until it cracked in three pieces and sliced his buttcheek open until the white meat showed.
His parents tried to sue until they saw the TicToc video another student made and posted online,
I think it was 14 stiches to close that hole.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Cityplumber said:


> in one of my schools, a middle school student thought it was a good idea to bounce up and down on a wall mount
> toilet until it cracked in three pieces and sliced his buttcheek open until the white meat showed.
> His parents tried to sue until they saw the TicToc video another student made and posted online,
> I think it was 14 stiches to close that hole.


Hahahaha, sucker!


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