# Copper gas piping



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Is copper ( soft-flare ) still allowed for natural gas in Florida? I havent pulled a permit using it for a while and dont know. I have been using pe for underground and some occaisional trac pipe for overhead.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I can't say for florida but soft copper is a go here....

either flared or silver soldered


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

That's a good question. I know hard copper is allowed as long as it's brazed. In fact FL fuel gas code says metallic pipe "shall be threaded, flanged, brazed or welded."

The nat. gas W/H at my house has a flared copper supply to the gas control valve.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Yes, flared id OK. Fuel Gas Code 403.10.3 states, "Flared joints shall be used only in systems constructed from nonferrous pipe and tubing where experience or tests have demonstrated that the joint is suitable for the conditions and where provisions are made in the design to prevent separation of the joints."


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Copper is not allowed here, for natural gas, the agent that gives the gas its odor also eats away at the copper on the inside.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> Copper is not allowed here, for natural gas, the agent that gives the gas its odor also eats away at the copper on the inside.


Same here, but LP can be flared copper.


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## PlumberJake (Nov 15, 2010)

Around here the gas company says no to copper. Inspectors agree that according to code we can use it, but they allow the people that provide the gas to control the material that it runs through. I get called on red tags a few times a year when old ladies call the gas company to check for leaks or relight an appliance and they decide the gas line to the wh or furnace needs to be replaced because its copper.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

In southern Colorado copper is legal for gas lines outside the structure. Don't know about Denver though. In practise, the only place where it is commonly used is on LP between the tank and the reg on the house.

Once inside it has to transition to steel or CSST.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

I'll stick with good ole black iron myself. Saying copper gas line just gives me the willy's:yes:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Yes flared is still approved, just had a job permited and passed with flared copper.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*I tear it out whenever I can*

Too many idiots in this world, they'll see copper and think water line and one use of a cutter and it's a explosion.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I can't say for florida but soft copper is a go here....
> 
> either flared or silver soldered


Hey OS, I seem to recall something of another stipulation in regards to flared copper. Which type of flared fitting is not to be used on gas? Is it cast brass or is it machined? I remember reading about this years ago but all my gas work is threaded iron or welded carbon. Any Idea?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Hey OS, I seem to recall something of another stipulation in regards to flared copper. Which type of flared fitting is not to be used on gas? Is it cast brass or is it machined? I remember reading about this years ago but all my gas work is threaded iron or welded carbon. Any Idea?


i would say cast would not be allowed....

But I have not run copper gas in a long time.... all we use now is CSST


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Florida code is the NFPA code. It says it's ok under certain conditions. You can't use it on systems that will be subjected to corrosive gas with certain ppm thresholds. 

In general, the answer is yes.

You can braze it too so long as you use an alloy containing no phosphorus (No silphos:no. There are plenty of silver alloys that require a flux though. Id rather braze than flare, but that's just me. 



stillaround said:


> Is copper ( soft-flare ) still allowed for natural gas in Florida? I havent pulled a permit using it for a while and dont know. I have been using pe for underground and some occaisional trac pipe for overhead.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> Copper is not allowed here, for natural gas, the agent that gives the gas its odor also eats away at the copper on the inside.


I did some research on this subject ETP, only because I have heard rumours that mercaptan can be absorbed and dissipated into piping walls and also due to many other factors such as cutting oil and dormant gas lines. I just read an article on nachi.com (national assoc of cert. Home inspectors) stating that mercaptan does not in fact detrimentally affect copper piping. Just curios where you found this information, as it seems unclear as to what the answer really is. I have never heard of this nachi before so I don't consider their advice to be the end all-be all. Any thoughts?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Almost forgot, on the brazing you have to blow nitrogen through the system while brazing. Kinda like you're doing medgas. If you don't, you're going to get copper oxides forming on the inside of the copper which will be flaking off later fouling regulators and orifices.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Protech said:


> Almost forgot, on the brazing you have to blow nitrogen through the system while brazing. Kinda like you're doing medgas. If you don't, you're going to get copper oxides forming on the inside of the copper which will be flaking off later fouling regulators and orifices.


first I have heard of that.... normally that is just for AC or refridge


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Protech said:


> Almost forgot, on the brazing you have to blow nitrogen through the system while brazing. Kinda like you're doing medgas. If you don't, you're going to get copper oxides forming on the inside of the copper which will be flaking off later fouling regulators and orifices.


Would this application be like purging before a tig route? It prevents "sugaring of the weld"


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Protech said:


> Almost forgot, on the brazing you have to blow nitrogen through the system while brazing. Kinda like you're doing medgas. If you don't, you're going to get copper oxides forming on the inside of the copper which will be flaking off later fouling regulators and orifices.


This was done with TIG using 100% Argon Gas and Silicon/Bronze Rod...


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Here its not allowed for NG but is for LP.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Or medgas, or any other system where flaky copper oxide is going to cause problems (like clogging stuff).



OldSchool said:


> first I have heard of that.... normally that is just for AC or refridge


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> I did some research on this subject ETP, only because I have heard rumours that mercaptan can be absorbed and dissipated into piping walls and also due to many other factors such as cutting oil and dormant gas lines. I just read an article on nachi.com (national assoc of cert. Home inspectors) stating that mercaptan does not in fact detrimentally affect copper piping. Just curios where you found this information, as it seems unclear as to what the answer really is. I have never heard of this nachi before so I don't consider their advice to be the end all-be all. Any thoughts?


 
I am a plumber, not a chemist. I can tell you this, copper gas lines will not pass an inspection in my city. The gas provider here will write a caution tag for any appliance with a copper gas line connected to it. Many others posted here that copper tubing for natural gas does not meet their code. I have removed many copper tubing gas lines that were full of debris.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

easttexasplumb said:


> I am a plumber, not a chemist. I can tell you this, copper gas lines will not pass an inspection in my city. The gas provider here will write a caution tag for any appliance with a copper gas line connected to it. Many others posted here that copper tubing for natural gas does not meet their code. I have removed many copper tubing gas lines that were full of debris.


I believe it is because your gas has Florida Water in it... :laughing:

Seriously, I believe that your gas has a higher Hydrogen Sulfide content so copper and brass can't be used. I forget the magic number.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Save yourself some time and use that new fangled gas propress :whistling2::laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Protech said:


> Almost forgot, on the brazing you have to blow nitrogen through the system while brazing. Kinda like you're doing medgas. If you don't, you're going to get copper oxides forming on the inside of the copper which will be flaking off later fouling regulators and orifices.


 



100% accurate. When brazing, no flux with copper brazed to copper. When brazing brass or bronze to copper, then you need flux. 

Without the dry nitrogen purge, the copper oxide forms a black ash on the inside of the pipe.


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## PrecisionPlumb (Feb 17, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> Copper is not allowed here, for natural gas, the agent that gives the gas its odor also eats away at the copper on the inside.


This is true ^^ Copper is a NO GO IN TEXAS


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