# 3” pushes into 4”?



## 02stangguy (Jun 3, 2018)

Got sent to a call yesterday to dig down to sewer and water main where it goes in through the foundation. Customer was getting water in basement coming in from sewer main. I wasn’t the one to sell the job, they just sent me there and told me what to do. So I dig down the the water and sewer. The idea was to seal around the pipes where they go into the wall because they assumed it was ground water. If we were to find a break in either line we would make repair. Got to the water main first and sealed it up. Good to go. Next I dig up the sewer and noticed that a fitting had come apart right by the wall. There are a few inches of 4” abs coming through the wall then the t for cleanout. It looks like the cleanout separates from the piece coming through wall. Next I go inside for the first time to see what’s going on in the basement. As you can see in the picture it looks like they shoved a 3” y into a piece of 4” coming through the wall which is the piece of 4” I see stubbed out outside. I’m assuming they put a few feet of 3” on that y and just pushed it into the 4” outside right? So what’s the right fix for this? Remove that y and reinstall with a 3x4 coupling outside? The whole house drops into that 3” y at the wall then it goes to 4 outside


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

in the first picture that looks like the 3" is going into a 4" sleeve through the foundation wall to me.


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## 02stangguy (Jun 3, 2018)

Yes that’s what it looks like to me too then outside you can see that 4” sleeve come through the wall but they glued on a 4” t for the clean out and kept on going with 4” for the rest of the main.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Let me get this straight, you are an apprentice sent on a job alone, no journeyman to guide you. You also don't seem to ask your boss what to do but instead you ask here.


Explain your outfit because it's not smoke anymore but fire.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Tango said:


> Let me get this straight, you are an apprentice sent on a job alone, no journeyman to guide you. You also don't seem to ask your boss what to do but instead you ask here.
> 
> 
> Explain your outfit because it's not smoke anymore but fire.




Tango brings up a great point, as liberal as Canada tends to be, why the hell arent you calling your boss to get his advice? 

lol lol


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tango said:


> Let me get this straight, you are an apprentice sent on a job alone, no journeyman to guide you. You also don't seem to ask your boss what to do but instead you ask here.
> 
> 
> Explain your outfit because it's not smoke anymore but fire.


Please try and go a little easier on him, it’s not his fault he doesn’t know as much as he should. Companies here send “techs” out on their own way quicker than they should. The less you know the more you make for the company. He’s asking questions and trying to learn, that’s more than I see with a lot of people in that position.

I worked for a company back in the day and the only training was sales, no technical. @OpenSights knows what it’s like at these companies, he’s posted about it a few times.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

well...............
if im understanding this right, I would break the foundation from the exterior until i found the hub from that Y” then see if I could glue a new piece of 3” to it, make sure you sleeve it 1 pipe size larger and seal it well. then increase to 4” on the exterior 3x4 like you said. its tough because you dont have much option to adjust inside unless you offset the stack, which looks like it means cutting off the san tee above your Y, then god knows what that opens up.....


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

of call a crete guy and convince them to move their foundation wall 1’ or so out so you can make your repair inside


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

Agree with Johnny - cut out the San tee and replace from there to wherever you can outside - use the 4” that’s already there as a sleeve through the concrete - you can also do it by cutting between the tee and wye and then use a pipe shredder aka socket saver (not messing with you this time - feel too guilty about the putty trick lol) to cut the pipe out of the hub on the bottom of the tee and then just glue a new piece into the bottom of the tee - either way just put new 3” through the 4” and make a proper transition outside


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Debo22 said:


> Please try and go a little easier on him, it’s not his fault he doesn’t know as much as he should. Companies here send “techs” out on their own way quicker than they should. The less you know the more you make for the company. He’s asking questions and trying to learn, that’s more than I see with a lot of people in that position.
> 
> I worked for a company back in the day and the only training was sales, no technical. @OpenSights knows what it’s like at these companies, he’s posted about it a few times.


If that's the case I can understand. It angers me that lousy companies send in kids to work when they are just starting out without much knowledge and charging high rates. And looks like the boss ain't helping either!

I get the complaints saying the rates are expensive and some shop elsewhere even though I explain the difference they might get if they call another outfit. For example in this case. A beginner vs someone with decades of experience.


I would suggest to 02stangguy to describe the company he works for because right now its a hazy story.


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

Yea hopefully he’s not a hack with 0 clue lol - that’s kinda how it was for me or a little while at my 1st plbg job tho - when I was 2nd year apprentice they started having me do some stuff on my own - my first sewer was so bad lol - the excavators followed the old concrete line that made about a 30’ crescent shape but no elbows - just the hubs all were misaligned - well, I was there by myself and not about to re dig the whole thing even though the end actually was lined up straight in front of the cleanout the middle definitely was not - my solution? Lots of ferncos haha. That company went out of business a few years later because the owner was not paying her taxes from what I heard - had about 2 dozen employees in 2 cities.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

Seems like a strange question for someone who has been plumbing for 7 years.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Personally I’d start looking for a Master that will teach you. Don’t follow my path in this trade.

Just my advice fwiw. 

Just comment as you’ve pretty much been given my advice on what to do already.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

A 4" abs hub will glue into a peice of 4" bds pipe. Thats what it looks like to me from the pic. But if its somthing else just pull the 3" out of the 4" and glue a 4x3 wye on there with a fitted end c.o like its suposed to be in the first place. Min size building drain is 4" and the building drain terminates at its most upstream vertical section. Thats just what my code book says not sure where your from.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

As always, full size clean out!


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

exclamation said:


> Agree with Johnny - cut out the San tee and replace from there to wherever you can outside - use the 4” that’s already there as a sleeve through the concrete - you can also do it by cutting between the tee and wye and then use a pipe shredder aka socket saver (not messing with you this time - feel too guilty about the putty trick lol) to cut the pipe out of the hub on the bottom of the tee and then just glue a new piece into the bottom of the tee - either way just put new 3” through the 4” and make a proper transition outside




well now im the a hole asking dumb questions with 10 years in but I have never once used a socket saver. do they work well? do they work on pvc pipe too?




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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> well now im the a hole asking dumb questions with 10 years in but I have never once used a socket saver. do they work well? do they work on pvc pipe too?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes they do.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> well now im the a hole asking dumb questions with 10 years in but I have never once used a socket saver. do they work well? do they work on pvc pipe too?


I've used them before but I prefer to peel the fitting or pipe. I've never had the luck of getting a real clean hub using them, usually a little gouging occurs. Could be the because my boss got the cheap ones. They do work on pvc.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> well now im the a hole asking dumb questions with 10 years in but I have never once used a socket saver. do they work well? do they work on pvc pipe too?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought this winter a deluxe 1 1/2", a 2" and a cheap 3". I also bought a bunch of plumbing tools that no service company has or has even knowledge of like the last drop, hub saver, internal cutter, my own shower wrench and johnni bar, my own modified ratchet for nuts for one piece toilets, pliers for sink drains and P-trap. Tight space shower through the floor wrench. Tiny pex crimper that fits in your palm etc etc. Makes my job easier!


I used the 1 1/2" when I did my k-45 carrier. It worked well. It kept me from scrapping like 10 fittings and restart the project from scratch.

It will come handy under sinks when you have to start from the wall or what ever tight space. It can do abs and pvc


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> well now im the a hole asking dumb questions with 10 years in but I have never once used a socket saver. do they work well? do they work on pvc pipe too?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

chonkie said:


> JohnnieSqueeze said:
> 
> 
> > well now im the a hole asking dumb questions with 10 years in but I have never once used a socket saver. do they work well? do they work on pvc pipe too?
> ...


True the fitting can come out cleaner this way, but there’s always the chance that whoever glued it also primed it correctly and you’ll be stuck with small chunks of pipe that are almost impossible to remove - or cracking the fitting also.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> well now im the a hole asking dumb questions with 10 years in but I have never once used a socket saver. do they work well? do they work on pvc pipe too?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have used a cheap one once and did not like it at all. We have a really nice set at the shop. It's Golden Grip pipe shredder. I have used it half a dozen times and it's great. It takes out primed pipe just as good as anything else. Works a little bit better on PVC but also works just fine on ABS.

Last I used it was 2 weeks ago under a trailer drilling out and old 3"X1-1/2" bushing from a 3" tee. I had to take a 3" holesaw and drill out the guts first and then I was left with a pipe sized piece that I could drill out with the pipe shredder. 

In conclusion: Golden Grip is awesome. Anything else sucks.

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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

exclamation said:


> True the fitting can come out cleaner this way, but there’s always the chance that whoever glued it also primed it correctly and you’ll be stuck with small chunks of pipe that are almost impossible to remove - or cracking the fitting also.


I honestly can't remember the last time I cracked a fitting. I have a method now that stresses the hub very little and I also rarely have little bits break off. I haven't even needed this trick in years now, but if ever in a situation where your only option is to peel the pipe and the hub seems like it wants to crack, use a clamp or two from a test cap to reinforce the hub.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

My boss had the ultra cheap fitting savers too. They weren't really very sharp so mostly they just ended up melting the pipe out of the fitting. On one occasion it got so hot on me that it melted right through the hub.
They also didn't have a stop so you could just drill right through the back end of the fitting if you weren't careful.

I just bought a 1" Wheeler rex for a pvc repair that I need to do when the tenants can let me onto the property for a couple hours.

L.A. hookup into house, bad glue joint on a tee for irrigation. Everything is exposed above grade but it's all hub to hub. There are probably 20 solenoid valve that would end up having to be cut out if I didn't have this tool.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Do the nicer ones have a sharp edge? The cheap ones my boss got do not and I haven't physically looked at other brands to see if they are or not. I don't know if they are supposed to be sharp.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

chonkie said:


> Do the nicer ones have a sharp edge? The cheap ones my boss got do not and I haven't physically looked at other brands to see if they are or not. I don't know if they are supposed to be sharp.


This one I bought has a blade on it.

I tested it on a junk piece at home just to see how it was going to go. It worked a lot better than those pieces of crap my boss had.


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

chonkie said:


> Do the nicer ones have a sharp edge? The cheap ones my boss got do not and I haven't physically looked at other brands to see if they are or not. I don't know if they are supposed to be sharp.



Here’s the one I used - it was like 13.00 at fergies- raptor brand - not the best I know but it got the job done quickly and no melting even though it doesn’t seem too sharp, it basically turned the pipe into powder/shavings


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

exclamation said:


> Here’s the one I used - it was like 13.00 at fergies- raptor brand - not the best I know but it got the job done quickly and no melting even though it doesn’t seem too sharp, it basically turned the pipe into powder/shavings


Those are the crappy ones we have now. I thought about giving them an edge but never got around to it since peeling pipe is real quick and easy for me now.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I bought 2 of these. Used only once...

https://www.reedmfgco.com/en/produc...an-ream-extreme-plastic-pipe-fitting-reamers/


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

chonkie said:


> exclamation said:
> 
> 
> > Here’s the one I used - it was like 13.00 at fergies- raptor brand - not the best I know but it got the job done quickly and no melting even though it doesn’t seem too sharp, it basically turned the pipe into powder/shavings
> ...


Maybe they were just used a lot and worn? Mine worked flawlessly the only time I used it besides a little minor gouging


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

i think reed makes the best one based on youtube video demos. $$$ to save cheap fittings but yeah Ive had a time or two I could have used it, instead just smashed drywall and told client to call a taper


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

We also have the wheeler rex set. We use them on dwv all the time no issues. We have even used them a couple times on chiller lines with antifreeze no problem. From our experience they are good up to ~30psi.

I have melted out pieces before with a blow torch. That works good too. I saw a video where a guy heats up a hole saw and then holds it inside the nipple to heat it with just the radiant heat. That worked for him fine and is less flamey.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> i think reed makes the best one based on youtube video demos. $$$ to save cheap fittings but yeah Ive had a time or two I could have used it, instead just smashed drywall and told client to call a taper
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I just used the wheeler rex 1" for some pvc lines on a manifold of solenoid valves for lawn irrigation. They had about 20 of them hub to hub with the tee off of the main water line and the shutoff valve which had a bad glue joint. One of the Tees in the middle was cracked and wrapped with fiberglass mesh and all gooped with resin. Took me a couple of hours to do the whole thing cut that section out, had to add a few couplers to the outlet side of the solenoids and a couple unions where the tee was, but I could have been there all day with cheap fittings threading adapters back into the valves, rebuilding that stupid manifold.

What a nightmare.


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