# Smoke machine guidance



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I have a bad odor condition at a reputable grocery and meat market( and their meat is good). Its an old been added to building so can't camera much. I found 2 hub drains catching the coolers not trapped and changed it and it helps but not 100% blah blah blah. I used 6 candles and blew it in and realized it wasnt such a thorough attempt at a smoke test.
1. Is the smoke test the best option.
2. Link to the prescribed method ( even inviting the guys from Illinois and Chcgo. to chime in because they are vocal about the "rightest way" ( I can talk southern)(have to take a shot at the native land once and a while)
3. A machine option that won't set me back too much---
And I'll be beholdin" for the hep.


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

i have used smoke bombs -like the 4th of july ones, they work good but stinky,


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Have a look see at this link.
http://www.superiorsignal.com/sewerpdf.pdf
Seal up the sewer line all the vents except the one you are feeeding the machine into and pressurize the dwv system...
what you see is what you got...


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

pepermint oil before smoke, I've used cinimon "BIG RED" oil, pepermint oil and once clove oil and each time was able to determine the problem before going to smoke.
local phamacy ought to have something.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Well if that can give me a once and for all result Ill go for it. Weve jetted out drains disconnected,reconnected grease trap, capped off a floor drain, reinstalled and set them back a bit. 4 other plumbers have tried this before ( not saying much) so I want to look good as soon as possible.

While I was writing a reply to smoke bombs I got your other responses ---thanks , I wanted to reply clearly--now Ill read the links


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

hows that work! you cant see smell.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

leak1 said:


> hows that work! you cant see smell.


 nope but your nose will lead the way so far everytime. just drop it down the vent during a slow time and go inside it will smell stronger the closer you get to it.

local BBQ, was a McDonalds. remodeled 2" vent just cut off at floor and buried in the serving counter and when the wind blew just right Darn if anybody could stay inside. they where still doing business I couldn't see anything so dropped a viel of BIG RED oil and got a good idea of where, so opened the wall then the plate and voila open 2" cut off at the floor. done.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

PlumberDave said:


> ... done.


Hey Dave...what's the status of the bk? Is he gonna renew his license or what? It expires on 5/15/09.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Dave -you sold me. Sounds easy enough for a starter. If it dont work I wont blame anybody except myself for trying it--kidding. Thanks .


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

Plumber said:


> Hey Dave...what's the status of the bk? Is he gonna renew his license or what? It expires on 5/15/09.


So Far he's heading in the right direction just buying time. All licenses are still active and will be per Bill. no sign he's giving up. he'll submit his plan on day 179 of the 180 required to submit a reorg plan. But Darn work is slowing down even more.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm sure you have already searched for any dry traps but have you searched the overhead for any type of water heater. I have found smells in restaraunts before that had a small overhead water heater that only served the restrooms. The relief line from the wh was piped to a 3" trap that had a failed trap primer and was not being primed. The result of course was a dry trap which stank the whole place up. A lot of times in a grocery store the restrooms are located pretty close to the meat section.


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## weplumb (Apr 16, 2009)

Like PLUMBERDAVE said pepermint oil works great but it"s a good idea to have help with you to pour in the peppermint. If you get that stuff on you you can't follow the smell its everywhere. I always have the guy that pours it in stay outside. Good luck smells are tough.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

PlumberDave said:


> So Far he's heading in the right direction just buying time. All licenses are still active and will be per Bill. no sign he's giving up. he'll submit his plan on day 179 of the 180 required to submit a reorg plan. But Darn work is slowing down even more.


We live in a small state with smaller minds, so any p.r. missstep is harmful. I cannot imagine what its like there for youse guys.

In my county with my rep, I'm constantly struggling to keep a good p.r. rep, but its a losing battle. :laughing:

BK is bad for business. Verizon yellow pages is in BK 11 and I didn't renew because I don't trust them to put out a decent book. See?


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Here is how to build an inexpensive smoke machine

http://www.upfrontprice.com/odds.html


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Smoke is a last resort for me. when i have to do it I use a leaf blower and hold the smoke bomb by the air intake and blow it down the roof stack. Don't run the machine too fast or you will blow water out of the toilets and traps.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

How many ounces per vent do you think Dave.


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## kellybhutchings (Jul 29, 2008)

I built the machine on the upfrontprice link and it works great. Just hook it to the cleanout light you superior smokebomb and plug it in. The three minutes goes quick and it is easier to see the smoke in the dark with a flashlight.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Thanks for the great tips and advise --I'll try thy oil and build one of those budget smoke machines ( just what I was looking for ).


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

You can use the little smoke bombs, I get them from Crawford Supply, and a hair dryer.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Is that Crawford supply in Mokena- my dad worked there years ago and I knew Jerry Crawford the original before they sold to Pfeiger brothers. Thats 40+ years ago. In fact I worked a summer there. Anyway I used some smoke candles and a wet vac and didnt do very well --inasmuch no results of smoke but I got smell.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, 
that's the one. I got them at their Kankakee branch. I think it used to be Inland Supply, then Crawford took over. A shop vac is too much, a hair dryer works real good.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Have they got a grease trap inside?
How is that set up if they do?
Sometimes they get put in wrong and you end up stinking the grease trap...

As far as smoke machines go those smoke bombs can be pretty irritating breathing the crap...
They have some now that use a liquid cool smoke....
Much much better!

In a food store they health officials may have a problem with using smoke contaminating food...


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Yes they do and one of the workers claims their issue started a couple years ago when the trap was put in but others there say other things and I have to filter what I hear so I dont go crazy. I checked the seal and opened it and it is in the right direction. With the other openings I found this has been a bit on the challenge side. More than 3 times I leave and then they say they smell it-- like a bad dream. Now when you say wrong you might mean wrong other than wrong direction right.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Pay particular attention to how the lines going into it are trapped and vented, the sealing of the grease trap and the line out.

Good chance its your problem.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Take a look at this linked PDF...
http://zurn.com/operations/lightcommercial/pdfs/installation/js2.pdf
Trust me when I say there is nothing optional about that P-Trap under the sink unless you like sniffin grease traps... Those vents better make it outside too.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Okay-other factor- the exit line from the grease trap connects to a lateral with the end of that run having a floor drain and clean out not properly vented. I camera'd the line and it is back pitched 3/4 full of water. We jetted the lines and its clear but full. I thought because there was also a slight back up problem earlier that it would burp the trap. The floor drain had a couple small cracks so I chopped around and capped it off and disconnected the grease trap and routed the 3 comp. sink to the old above floor horizontal line still sitting there. I did my lame version of a smoke test and after getting no smoke I poked the end of the wet vac in the vent ( futility and desperation) and got smell. But I then found 2 hub drains under the meat cooler and chicken display cooler to which I poked the Rigid mini cam thing and saw no traps-(whether or not there is a running trap down the way I dont know). I sealed them off. "And" the overhead fan condensate drain was dumped in that with no trap which I trapped and everyone said all ok and I got paid $1620.00 for some other things also. Then days later the phone rings -not as bad but still there. Could be the grease trap which we reconnected to its old way.( Wake me up when its over)


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Okay that link's gonna help--Ill reconfigure to diagram.


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

i have had the vent intake on the flo control valve put out alot of smell sometimes, check that out . temp. plug it to see if smell goes away.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Did that and its still plugged but the the 3 comp sink isnt separately trapped --aha but the poking the nose method of troubleshooting couldnt verify that as a problem-however we've had to trap others because of odors in such a case--no, the light bulb hasnt gone on yet. I will trap it tho.
Not every post I write is guaranteed to make sense


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

definitly!!!!!!!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Theres more to this . Occaisionally the smell is outside. There is a storm drain with area drains in the lot tied to the city storm sewer. One worker tells me he smells the same smell 2 blocks away and I think to myself one bridge to cross at a time. I feel like Im in a Fellini movie.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Check how their HVAC condensate drains are run...
It they have dry traps that can sometimes git ya.

Ah forget that...
I just saw your in Florida...
AC's probably running now huh?


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

The weather outside is perfect and beautiful last few days--sunsets nice--inside we argue over 76 or 75-yes its running.
Oh their hvac. Did already--and because its Florida there is a general lack of care how they are run--nothing against FLA. I live here.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

Sorry just got in. Had work today! 
I'd 2 viels I don't know ounces of the things. not toxic can be done anytime I hate night calls.


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## Plumberpilot (Apr 13, 2009)

I've smoked a few buildings by plugging the VTRs, removing a lower stack c/o plug and making a plug with a schrader valve, light a smoke and pitch it in the c/o shoot a "little" air to it and look for the smoke. If it's a old building be ready for almost every dwv joint to leak.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Thanks to all. I just got a call at 10:23 pm that the boys found the source of the odor. I used the peppermint oil as recommended and was able to narrow the search down to a corner between to display coolers and where the concrete ended. There was an open combo ( cast iron) under the slab that leaked the smell up thru the separation of the concrete. They went thru 4 plumbers and years of this issue. So I have to credit the contributors here of making it easier. Unfortunately I cant buy lunch but would if you were here.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

Nice work! :thumbsup:That's got to feel good to solve a problem that others could'nt or just wernt willing to put in the effort to fix it.

Anyway you'll be getting your steaks on the cheap for some time to come.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

just remember the trick and pass it on to the next plumber. Good Job.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Dave, Thanks. Not only was the peppermint the trick, your original scenario of a cut off vent was the issue here ( and not a combo as they earlier said ). It wasnt capped and the odor travelled the length of the concrete and came up a crack where the concrete ended. Not too shabby troubleshooting experience kudos to you.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*Thoughts are welcome and appreciated.*

Have a sewer smell issue to check out. Today I raised the washer vtr 30" over oven hood vent as the 2 were ported side by side and touching. Washer room seems most infected ( opposite kitchern wall). Anybody heard of a old upright washer letting sewer smell through? BTW the washer drain is fixed permanatly to stand pipe so is sealed at that point.Given windy conditions things can happen to the trap seal. Rodded the kitchen / washer drain which were sluggish but draining. Oh btw sink cable exited line presumably at combo under slab floor so will be doing a reroute.
Considering a smoke test but a bit skiddish as this will be my first time.
Gent living there is in his 90's so I haved to handle with care.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

It's prolly the old diapers in the wastebasket...................


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