# Random stuff from my phone



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

water heater install I did today. Upgrade from a 50 gal to an 80 plus thermal expansion controls.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Replacing a 1/2" cpvc line that had burst multiple times due to water hammer.
Notice the hammer arrestor installed by maintenance staff to try to eliminate the water hammer.

I removed the cpvc and installed a 3/4" copper line. No hammer.

This was in the boiler room in a medical research facility for the HVAC makeup air humidifier.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

more


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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

Protech said:


> water heater install I did today. Upgrade from a 50 gal to an 80 plus thermal expansion controls.


In Canada your t & p valve(s) are piped illegally


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I understand why too. However, this isn't Canada. It's central Florida and it's perfectly legal here.



Plumber patt said:


> In Canada your t & p valve(s) are piped illegally


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## Plumber patt (Jan 26, 2011)

Lol I figured as much, just my $0.02


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Not only that you would never get away with running cpvc in a building like that in Canada....

Had to laugh the cpvc is just hanging there with the hammer arrestor ..... looks like it is ready to snap off


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## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

Plumber patt said:


> In Canada your t & p valve(s) are piped illegally


 Same here in MO. Cant do that


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Protech said:


> It's central Florida and it's perfectly legal here.


 

I don't think it is, relief lines must be ran separately full pipe size to the outside

Thanks for the photos.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

In keeping with the theme....

Rebuilt this about an hour ago...


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Random....


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

no unions required on whs in central florida?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Nope


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## Prscptn Plmbng (Feb 15, 2011)

Protech said:


> water heater install I did today. Upgrade from a 50 gal to an 80 plus thermal expansion controls.


Out here in california my code book says your not allowed to install pex within 18 inches of the water heater...

Prescription Plumbing Inc 
P.O.Box 6378 
Oceanside, CA 92502


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## Prscptn Plmbng (Feb 15, 2011)

Plumber patt said:


> In Canada your t & p valve(s) are piped illegally


Illegal here in cali also...

Prescription Plumbing Inc 
P.O.Box 6378 
Oceanside, CA 92502


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi Protech

Had a few questions on the heater pictures (thanks by the way). 
Is that an expansion valve tied into the relief? If so, what is the benefit of having an expansion valve and an expansion tank? Just curious.

And that angle stop... Is that some sort of circ. line or is that going to another fixture?

Thanks.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

6th Density said:


> Hi Protech
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
my guess is ICE Line :thumbsup:


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## Walt (Mar 12, 2011)

i believe that the companies that make pex advise not to run pex too close to water heater also, not 100% sure, but i have done it also and been told the same thing. although i have not had any problems with it..anywho i now use copper at least 1 ' off the heater. then go to pex..on new installs i like to plumb house in pex but use copper at stub outs and water heater cause it looks professional. service you deal with what you got...nice looking replacement, don,t understand the deal at t&p, as a rule i always seperate my drains and plumb them where you can see them discharge in case there is a problem. if t&p is going off you need to see it as soon as possible..


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Blue



6th Density said:


> Hi Protech
> 
> Had a few questions on the heater pictures (thanks by the way).
> Is that an expansion valve tied into the relief? Yes If so, what is the benefit of having an expansion valve and an expansion tank? Just curious. The expansion tank is the primary thermal expansion control device. When(not if) the thermal expansion tank bladder fails, the expansion valve will then start to drip into the relief drain and continue to provide thermal expansion control. At that point the home owner will eventually call the plumber out to see what's causing that water puddle. Plumber can then replace both valve and tank and no harm is done. If you install a tank only, you are just delaying a failure from thermal expansion, not preventing it.
> ...


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks Pro.
Makes sense now. I like it!:yes:
I've yet to see an engineer pick up on this in the commercial realm.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

4tonn chiller installation for nano magnetic resonance imaging equipment. All hard k copper.

It's nice to be able to do quality.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

More


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I understand your explanation for having a primary and secondary device for thermal expansion control, though it seems like overkill. Everything will fail eventually, but rarely is someone willing to pay to have the back-up already in place.

Please humor me, why not just use the expansion valve and leave the exp. tank out?


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## Prscptn Plmbng (Feb 15, 2011)

PlumbCrazy said:


> I understand your explanation for having a primary and secondary device for thermal expansion control, though it seems like overkill. Everything will fail eventually, but rarely is someone willing to pay to have the back-up already in place.
> 
> Please humor me, why not just use the expansion valve and leave the exp. tank out?


The expansion tank works every time the water is heated to keep the house pressure at a safe operating pressure...the blow off valve it's more of a security if the expansion tank fails...

Prescription Plumbing Inc 
P.O.Box 6378 
Oceanside, CA 92502


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Prscptn Plmbng said:


> The expansion tank works every time the water is heated to keep the house pressure at a safe operating pressure...the blow off valve it's more of a security if the expansion tank fails...
> 
> Prescription Plumbing Inc
> P.O.Box 6378
> Oceanside, CA 92502


This did not answer my question. Isn't a thermal expansion valve just as acceptable for controlling thermal expansion? If not, why?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

According to code, yes. In real life, no. Each device has it's downfalls.

Relief valves are fail safe. This means that if something breaks in the valve uncontrolled thermal expansion will NOT occur. The valve may need to be replaced, but it won't cause an instant catastrophic failure. However, they don't stop gradual damage to the system due to constant pressure cycling. This may result in failure over time.

Exp tanks do control pressure cycling and dampen shock. When they do eventually break, there is no warning and they WILL allow thermal expansion to cause a catastrophic failure.

Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. Together they are a perfect system though.




PlumbCrazy said:


> This did not answer my question. *Isn't a thermal expansion valve just as acceptable for controlling thermal expansion?* If not, why?


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