# Hard pipe gas line all the way to the water heater



## Shadow Sabre (Oct 12, 2009)

So, go out to this site to change out a few filters and went to shutdown the hot line. The damn angle stop was shot so I found the water heater shut it down look down to see someone had hard piped the gas line the whole damn way. Now I'm putting a flex line in too. What the hell? Whoever did this never heard of earthquakes in California. 
Sheeeeeesh


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

The truth of the matter is there was a time when you only needed Earthquake Straps in California if flex lines were used at the water heater. I went through the last big quake here and of the hundreds of heaters we fixed only one failed which was hard piped and the rest were all flexes.

Mark


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Here a flex line on a water heater is a code violation.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Hard pipe and R&L coupling really screws up DIY'ers and hacks.

Very seldom do I use a flex, unless they are speced for something like a hanging tube heater.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I use to hard pipe all of my heaters and years later would get calls from owners complaining I didn't use flexes so they could change their own heater. My pat answer was "I thought you wanted it installed like a Pro". 

Mark


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

All waterheaters must be hard piped in MA, both gas and water. I can see if your in a earthquake prone area, flex is probably a better option for both.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

pauliplumber said:


> All waterheaters must be hard piped in MA, both gas and water. I can see if your in a earthquake prone area, flex is probably a better option for both.


That's the problem, it is not a better option . As I stated above, of the hundreds of heaters we fixed after the last big earthquake, only one failed which was hard piped and the rest were all flexes. Earthquake straps were invented because of flexes not because of earthquakes.

Mark


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> That's the problem, it is not a better option . As I stated above, of the hundreds of heaters we fixed after the last big earthquake, only one failed which was hard piped and the rest were all flexes. Earthquake straps were invented because of flexes not because of earthquakes.
> 
> Mark


Now you have me curious...

1. Why did the heaters fail? 

2. What repairs did you do to the heaters?

3. Wouldn't the percentage of failures in each category be what matters? (If the Chevy dealership sold 10 trucks in a remote area and the Ford dealership sold 500, the auto repair shops are going to say "We have to repair a lot mroe Fords than we do Chevys."


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Now you have me curious...
> 
> 1. Why did the heaters fail?
> 
> ...


They tipped over breaking their gas lines and/or water lines causing flooding and/or fires. There was more flooding than fires. The one hard piped heater did not tip over but did snap the hot water line where it screwed into the tank.

Mark


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

i'm in sf cali quake central... gas to my heaters get hard piped yep:yes: inspectors dont say a damn word!! i was tellin master one day in chat that i hardpipe all gas except dryers and ranges the man was shocked....


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> They tipped over breaking their gas lines and/or water lines causing flooding and/or fires. There was more flooding than fires. The one hard piped heater did not tip over but did snap the hot water line where it screwed into the tank.
> 
> Mark


Ah, gotcha! Still doesn't address the ratio issue. 

It seems weird to me to depend on the gas line to prevent that kind of problem though. Wouldn't it make sense to use a flax line then strap it well?


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Ah, gotcha! Still doesn't address the ratio issue.
> 
> It seems weird to me to depend on the gas line to prevent that kind of problem though. Wouldn't it make sense to use a flax line then strap it well?


You are right, the hard piping of the gas line has less to do with it than the hard piping of the water lines. After the Northridge Earthquake we had heaters where the water lines were the only things holding the water heater up. The heaters piped with flexes did not have a chance.

Mark


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## Shadow Sabre (Oct 12, 2009)

Well it can be piped both ways, if strapped correctly- try telling that to an insurance inspector in California.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I hard pipe all my Rinnai's gas lines. Helps make them harder for a crack head to want to steal.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Here a flex line on a water heater is a code violation.


Well, in California, NOT having a flex on the gas and water lines, is a code violation.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

grandpa said:


> Well, in California, NOT having a flex on the gas and water lines, is a code violation.


Under what Code Section?

Mark


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

Hard pipe and unions!


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

what code is that? i'm in sacramento california and i've never ran in to that code!


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

508.2 of the plumbing code does address only strapping of the heater. The fine print defers other requirements to AHJ, HCD, DSA, SFM, and anyone else who wants get in the act. Around here, they want flex.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

grandpa said:


> 508.2 of the plumbing code does address only strapping of the heater. The fine print defers other requirements to AHJ, HCD, DSA, SFM, and anyone else who wants get in the act. Around here, they want flex.


Here is the full section:

508.2 ​​Protection from Seismic Damage. In seismic
design categories C, D, E, and F water heaters shall
be anchored or strapped to resist horizontal
displacement due to earthquake motion. Strapping
shall be at points within the upper one third (1/3)
and lower one-third (1/3) of its vertical dimensions.
At the lower point, a minimum distance of four (4)
inches (102 mm) shall be maintained above the
controls with the strapping.​_508.2.1 [HCD​_1, _HCD _2, _and SFM] Protection
from seismic damage.* _* * _Water heaters shall be
anchored to resist horizontal displacement due to
earthquake motion. Strapping shall be at points
within the upper one third _(1/3) _and lower one-third
(1/3) of its vertical dimensions. At the lower point, a
minimum distance offour _(4) _inches (102 mm) shall
be maintained above the controls with the strapping.

Note: [HCD _1 & _HCD _2] _Reference Health and Safety
Code Section 19211(a) which addresses new, replacement,
and existing water heaters.

Note: [SFM] The applicable subsection of Health and
Safety Code section 19211(a) which addresses new,
replacement, and existing water heaters is repeated here
for clarity and reads as follows:

Section 19211(a) Notwithstanding Section 19100, all
new and replacement water heaters, and all existing
residential water heaters shall be braced, anchored, or
strapped to resist falling or horizontal displacement due to
earthquake motion. At a minimum, any water heater shall
be secured in accordance with the California Plumbing
Code, or modifications made thereto by a cih) county, or
city and county pursuant to Section 17958.5._​_
_ 
---------------------------

The entire section is in regards to bracing and has nothing to do with supply piping. I would be interested to hear what jurisdiction is requiring you to use flexes and their rationale for it?

Mark


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## coolwater (Oct 17, 2009)

tankless and commercial = hard pipe in GA


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Born and raised in Northridge, out tanked heater fell on my moms hood of her Honda. flooded the garage, I don't remember the gas being an issue nor do I remember if it was hard piped or flexies. I have never in my life hard piped a tanked heater, do it with tankless every week. Mark, is there a code out yet that makes refference to "water storage" or "potable storage" that addresses gas flex? While I use CSST for most installs sometimes I will hard pipe it (tankless heaters that is)


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Tankless said:


> Born and raised in Northridge, out tanked heater fell on my moms hood of her Honda. flooded the garage, I don't remember the gas being an issue nor do I remember if it was hard piped or flexies. I have never in my life hard piped a tanked heater, do it with tankless every week. Mark, is there a code out yet that makes refference to "water storage" or "potable storage" that addresses gas flex? While I use CSST for most installs sometimes I will hard pipe it (tankless heaters that is)


I grew up in Sepulveda so we probably know a lot of the same areas. The only Codes I am aware of that limit gas flexes would have to do with sizing. I know of no limitations to hard piping except of course for unions and shut offs.

Mark

BTW: Five of my six kids were born in Northridge Hospital.


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