# Dual check valve for tripple p primer?



## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

I've done more than 50 commercial installs with triple p primers for floor drains. What our company does is we bring back all our primers to a central location and install a triple p primer with adapters that distribute the flow evenly to all floor drains.

Ran into an inspector from a town I usually don't work in, and he is telling me I need a dual check valve before the primer, and by ontario plumbing code all check valves for inspection need to be no higher than 6 feet off the ground.

I was always sure that the trap seal primer had a air gap installed in it, and it seems way out of the question to charge more money to the customer to install a pricey dual check system.

Anyone ever run into this problem before? Looking for another way out of this besides spending a crapload of money that the customer doesnt want to pay!


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

trap primers don't have an air gap they have an air break there's a city here that requires and air gap so we put a 1/2" x 1" reducing coupling on the primer line coming up out of the floor then put the trap primer over the top of it with a 1" air gap. If you have multiple trap primers ,which is cheaper 3 trap primers or the dcv with testing every year?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I haven't installed one in a long time and if memory serves there is a plastic cover that protects it from spraying everywhere and it may be your problem. Can you install a hose bib nearby to satisfy as a trap primer? I suppose you could install three separate primers. What about installing the dual check in a better location. It doesn't have to be next to the primer.


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## The real E.P. (Aug 9, 2011)

Pressure vacuum breaker


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

A pvb is allowed on a possible cross connection between domestic water and sewer in Canada?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

billy_awesome said:


> I've done more than 50 commercial installs with triple p primers for floor drains. What our company does is we bring back all our primers to a central location and install a triple p primer with adapters that distribute the flow evenly to all floor drains.
> 
> Ran into an inspector from a town I usually don't work in, and he is telling me I need a dual check valve before the primer, and by ontario plumbing code all check valves for inspection need to be no higher than 6 feet off the ground.
> 
> ...


 Just tell the customer thats what the inspector wants if there is a problem I ask the inspector too talk to the customer in person! All inspectors I have meet can be hard a times but usually are understanding in these situations and clarify the issues with the customer.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

pilot light said:


> Just tell the customer thats what the inspector wants if there is a problem I ask the inspector too talk to the customer in person! All inspectors I have meet can be hard a times but usually are understanding in these situations and clarify the issues with the customer.


OK , how do you handle it when the customer says they trusted that you knew what you were bidding on , and they don't no shiot about plumbing , you are the Pro , so you eat the additional cost ?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> OK , how do you handle it when the customer says they trusted that you knew what you were bidding on , and they don't no shiot about plumbing , you are the Pro , so you eat the additional cost ?


 I was in the same situation last week mentioned my issue with the owner and inspector on site during final inspection No lwco on exsiting boiler! Then there was no room for a misunderstanding. I understand what your saying. I have heard about a solution of using solenoid valves on trap primers in a hospital up here it made precendence and is now recognized as an alternative solution. I could contact a friend who worked on it if you like?


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

pilot light said:


> I was in the same situation last week mentioned my issue with the owner and inspector on site during final inspection No lwco on exsiting boiler! Then there was no room for a misunderstanding. I understand what your saying. I have heard about a solution of using solenoid valves on trap primers in a hospital up here it made precendence and is now recognized as an alternative solution. I could contact a friend who worked on it if you like?


No need to contact your friend.
I wasn't looking for the plumbing solution, I was looking for the solution to the additional cost that should be past on to the customer.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> No need to contact your friend.
> I wasn't looking for the plumbing solution, I was looking for the solution to the additional cost that should be past on to the customer.


Charge by the hour .


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

We bidded on the job.

And every engineer covers his ass on the blueprints saying that any additional city bi-laws or ontario plumbing code shall be included in our price.

The problem is, I KNOW it's not in our code book, not sure about the city bi-law, I don't want to piss off this inspector either he is a nice guy. 

I just don't understand how every inspector I've ever met has approved of priming this way, and this inspector has a big problem with it......sigh


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

billy_awesome said:


> We bidded on the job.
> 
> And every engineer covers his ass on the blueprints saying that any additional city bi-laws or ontario plumbing code shall be included in our price.
> 
> ...


Yep they are all a little different depending on what and where! Gas Plumbing and Boiler inspectors! :thumbsup: I do know of the use of solenoid valves on timers my buddy got it approved because of the same issues described!


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

billy_awesome said:


> We bidded on the job.
> 
> And every engineer covers his ass on the blueprints saying that any additional city bi-laws or ontario plumbing code shall be included in our price.
> 
> ...


They are inspectors, not plumbers. Last week I had an inspector make us nail plate metal studs. Just do it and move on. What is a few hundred dollars. ? It's part of it. I had an inspector pass a motel rough in. We buried it and left. Got a call next day that he wanted us to use waste and vent stack process instead of stack venting . Did a dozen like that, but one inspector wanted to make us do it verbatim plans. ... After the fact!! Just got to get pissed and move along. How much would it really cost to put in a double check anyways? Just do it. You will make it up on next one. It ain't like it will cost thousands.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

justin said:


> They are inspectors, not plumbers. Last week I had an inspector make us nail plate metal studs. Just do it and move on. What is a few hundred dollars. ? It's part of it. I had an inspector pass a motel rough in. We buried it and left. Got a call next day that he wanted us to use waste and vent stack process instead of stack venting . Did a dozen like that, but one inspector wanted to make us do it verbatim plans. ... After the fact!! Just got to get pissed and move along. How much would it really cost to put in a double check anyways? Just do it. You will make it up on next one. It ain't like it will cost thousands.


 Up here they are plumbers or gasfitters usually both!


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

pilot light said:


> Up here they are plumbers or gasfitters usually both!


It's a conflict of interest in Texas. Illegal!


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

It's a ***** of a job, its just a small restaurant, and the water meter and primers are actually in the bathroom. which means i'd either have to run a line from the mechanical room which is 40ft away to the primers.

These jobs are tight, we don't bid them high because they always want them done cheap, We have done so many we work so fast 3 days cutting concrete and underground, 3 days rough in and water lines, and 2 days finish.

I'm thinking im going to get the salesman from tripple p on the phone, and maybe somehow get him to give me some good info on why a dual check isnt required, or maybe even get him to call the inspector myself.........sigh again


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Can you just build an access to the DCV? We could put it where eer as long as we made it reachable by platform.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

billy_awesome said:


> It's a ***** of a job, its just a small restaurant, and the water meter and primers are actually in the bathroom. which means i'd either have to run a line from the mechanical room which is 40ft away to the primers.
> 
> These jobs are tight, we don't bid them high because they always want them done cheap, We have done so many we work so fast 3 days cutting concrete and underground, 3 days rough in and water lines, and 2 days finish.
> 
> I'm thinking im going to get the salesman from tripple p on the phone, and maybe somehow get him to give me some good info on why a dual check isnt required, or maybe even get him to call the inspector myself.........sigh again


This is all you need to do, see pic


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

justme said:


> This is all you need to do, see pic


 I dont think that would fly up here!


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

pilot light said:


> I dont think that would fly up here!


why not? An air gap is better than any type of check valve.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

justme said:


> why not? An air gap is better than any type of check valve.


 I agree but the device is not an assembly and thus non testable I could be wrong.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

pilot light said:


> I agree but the device is not an assembly and thus non testable I could be wrong.


Air gaps are always testable , if you can move your hand between the trap primer and the primer line you just tested it . There is not any better protection by any backflow codes than an airgap.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I meant the dual check!:laughing:


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

sorry thought the primer was a dual check!


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Yea billy posted dual check which isn't testable , I assumed he meant something like the watts 007. Because a dual check is alot cheaper than a double check valve (007).


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

justme said:


> Yea billy posted dual check which isn't testable , I assumed he meant something like the watts 007. Because a dual check is alot cheaper than a double check valve (007).


 Ya I think he meant DCVA?


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

I've not run into your issue before but, if he is in fact asking for a dual check (not double check), they are cheap. 

Throw it in and move on.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Tell him to site the code section, or pass the installation. 

Nice guy or not, if he cant reference it in a code book, he is wrong. 

To helll with them "inspector codes"


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