# What's your go-to shower valve?



## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

Whats your go to shower valve that you install, and why?


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## The cable guy (Oct 31, 2020)

For single handle? Brizo multichoice with a delta pressure balance cartridge. Because delta cartridges are easy to rebuild and when I ask the supply house for a single handle delta shower faucet that’s what they give me lol.

for 2 and 3 handle I go with American standard Colony. thatIs the preference of both my current boss and my previous boss so I guess I don’t really have a good reason why. That’s just me doing what I know works.

I like moen too and have installed a few positemp shower faucets. I especially like the fact that some of them have the shut offs right on the valve so you don’t have to turn the water off to the house to change the cartridge out.

What’s your preference?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

delta 1700 seems to work best...... Moen positemp is ok until you need to 
change out that cartridge.....

american standard is just junk


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## The cable guy (Oct 31, 2020)

I admit moen cartridges are a pita to change. Funny enough I have yet to encounter a moen shower valve down here. They were all over the place in Wichita.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

We're a kohler dealer so we do a lot of 304's but the moen 1200 is pretty great if your water quality is such that the pbv spools aren't too hard to change. Symmons are always a good choice too and chicago faucet makes some great trim kits for them.

I had to replace the cartridge in a water works volume control valve the other day, 374$ for the cartridge. Back in the day all we put in were moen 1200 shower valves, delta ball kitchen faucets, moen 1200 lav faucets, and mansfield toilets.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Only Moen and I have some left over delta. Delta is on the way out, cartridge are at 120$ plus mark up and people get angry I'm robbing them. 

Moen: I haven't had too many problems getting tub/shower cartridges out with a puller. For roman tubs however they are a nightmare.


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## Dontbitenails (Oct 16, 2020)

Delta Multi choice, knock out the shower restrictor for full flow. Moen next but machined ports are only so big . No big thing unless you have a divertor valve after the mixing valve and want to run more than one shower head. The Delta multi choice has better flow. Both cartridges have their issues. Does anyone else use a Moen tub / shower faucet for just a shower stall. I connect the shower head to the port for the tub spout and cap the port that went to the shower, much better flow but a pain to construct. Delta much easier.


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## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

I mainly install Moen positemp or Moentrol, but the cartridges for the positemp keep going up in price (if you don't play the system and get em for free), and sometimes those cartridges are a real pain to get out. I hate to install a piece of hardware just because that's "what I was taught." I want to know that what I am putting in is going to last, and is right.

Here in UT cartridges on positemps last maybe about nine months to a year because of the hard water.

Have you guys noticed any valves that seem to deal with hard water better than others?


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Moen posi temp, catriges are free an i find them easy to pull out.


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## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

Last one is a home owner special, but this is normal here. Sometimes you have to force it so hard you think you're going to bend the copper


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Moen positemp here. 90+% of the time the cartridge comes out with little to some force. Though I have run into ones that I had to drill out and ultimately had to replace. It’s all about age and water quality.

Personally I like the Troll, but the posi is what my master prefers.

When I install one I hand the customer the paperwork and tell them to call Moen and tell them that the faucet is about 5 years old, it’s dripping and their plumber said they need a new cartridge. That way they don’t have to wait, or pay my price for a new one when they need one.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

why dont you clean your shower . your toilet probably looks worse. you are probably one of those slobs that complain about the extra charge for having to put my face by your nasty uncleaned toilet. dont worry , i took a couple of towels out of your cabinet, covered your toilet, fixed it and then folded them neatly and placed them back in your cabinet.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Moen positemp is my go to. The cartridges last a long time here and are fairly easy to change. Sometimes the rubber does bind a bit on removal.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> why dont you clean your shower . your toilet probably looks worse. you are probably one of those slobs that complain about the extra charge for having to put my face by your nasty uncleaned toilet. dont worry , i took a couple of towels out of your cabinet, covered your toilet, fixed it and then folded them neatly and placed them back in your cabinet.


I see you started drinking early tonight


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Nazareth said:


> Last one is a home owner special, but this is normal here. Sometimes you have to force it so hard you think you're going to bend the copper
> View attachment 126175
> View attachment 126176


The customers toilet and countertops aren’t your work bench unless you cover it with a terry cloth towel or drop cloth.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Debo22 said:


> The customers toilet and countertops aren’t your work bench unless you cover it with a terry cloth towel or drop cloth.


I keep a 4x5 drop cloth right in my tool bag.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Nazareth said:


> ........Have you guys noticed any valves that seem to deal with hard water better than others?


We have extremely hard water here(up to 30gpg) and if you're talking single handle than a moen 1200 WITHOUT a PBS seems to be the best.

I would say symmons is 2nd so long as the seats hold up. The old fashioned faucet washer and bibb seat works best, and a symmons is like a single handle version of that. After moen three handle central brass valves are the next most common around here. Central stuff is so common I keep a couple of 5$ 1/2-24 monel seats on the van.

I just replaced the volume control in a waterworks that relied on a sort of diaphragm for pressure balance control so it was very resistant to failure from hard water. But that replacement cartridge cost us 374$ from france plus shipping.

The advantage with moen is that the areas where the lime builds up are rubber on brass where as with most others the lime is building up between two, large, flat, hard, surfaces which makes them very difficult to pull apart once the lime has cemented them together.


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## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

skoronesa said:


> The advantage with moen is that the areas where the lime builds up are rubber on brass where as with most others the lime is building up between two, large, flat, hard, surfaces which makes them very difficult to pull apart once the lime has cemented them together.


That's a _*very*_ good point


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Nazareth said:


> That's a _*very*_ good point


Moen 1200 cartridges might not last the longest but it's not really about how long until they fail, it's about the way in which they fail. If a cartridge last 10 years but then you have to change the whole valve because you can't remove it you'll find you'd rather have a cartridge that only last 5 years but you can actually replace it.

The kohler 304 and the delta single handle ceramic attack this problem by putting the cartridge in an oversize housing. Of course with the 304 the pbv spool cartridge is still kind of a tight fit but almost always needle nose pliers do the trick. The delta really sucks if it freezes but that's a rare occurence which should warrant a whole new valve body anyway.


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## Paulie B (Oct 22, 2011)

We have been using symmons valves for over 30 years. Second choice is kohler 304. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Dontbitenails said:


> Delta Multi choice, knock out the shower restrictor for full flow. Moen next but machined ports are only so big . No big thing unless you have a divertor valve after the mixing valve and want to run more than one shower head. The Delta multi choice has better flow. Both cartridges have their issues. Does anyone else use a Moen tub / shower faucet for just a shower stall. I connect the shower head to the port for the tub spout and cap the port that went to the shower, much better flow but a pain to construct. Delta much easier.


Why’s it a pain to construct? Just put it in upside down. Moentrolls and positemp body’s don’t care what side you’re feeding hot and cold from.


I’ve only met one moen cartridge so far I couldn’t remove and it was a 50ish year old brass one. I Use the puller on every one of them and never have an issue.

I do a mix off 304 bodies and Positemps if I’m picking somthing. The majority of bodies I do wind up being Waterworks, California Faucets, Sherril Wagner or some one off expensive brand. If people ask me for advice on a high end brand I try to steer them to Rohl.


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## Dontbitenails (Oct 16, 2020)

Marlin said:


> Why’s it a pain to construct? Just put it in upside down. Moentrolls and positemp body’s don’t care what side you’re feeding hot and cold from.


But then the cartridge,trim and handle would be upside down .


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## Dontbitenails (Oct 16, 2020)

Dontbitenails said:


> But then the cartridge,trim and handle would be upside down .


I could flip the cartridge, but the bump on the posi temp would be on the bottom and the trim would have to be upside down. Put the handle assembly on upside-downx this may work. Never know what an old dog may learn on here . Think outside the box


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

Dontbitenails said:


> But then the cartridge,trim and handle would be upside down .


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## Nazareth (Sep 30, 2017)

Dontbitenails said:


> I could flip the cartridge, but the bump on the posi temp would be on the bottom and the trim would have to be upside down. Put the handle assembly on upside-downx this may work. Never know what an old dog may learn on here . Think outside the box


You can completely flip the cartridge upside down and rotate the stem. It'll work fine. I've had to do it several times (just dealing with what's in front of me, you know how it goes.)


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Like Martin, we get Waterworks and Dornbracht and Vola. I don't like the heavy lifting involved with Vola, but their tech guy, John Kamuda, is great. Fortunately Waterworks and Dornbracht have a few good tech people as well. If we're lucky, we get an occasional Hans Grohe iBox, a Rohl or a Grohe. I like Grohe and Rohl because I have a good relationship with their reps. Once in a while a Kohler comes our way. Haven't dealt with Moen or Delta for decades.


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## Sushison (Nov 24, 2013)

Tango said:


> Only Moen and I have some left over delta. Delta is on the way out, cartridge are at 120$ plus mark up and people get angry I'm robbing them.
> 
> 
> 
> i like delta's the 1300/1400 series and 1700 series are nice a straight forward.


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## breplum (Mar 21, 2009)

Marlin said:


> Why’s it a pain to construct? Just put it in upside down. Moentrolls and positemp body’s don’t care what side you’re feeding hot and cold from.
> 
> 
> I’ve only met one moen cartridge so far I couldn’t remove and it was a 50ish year old brass one. I Use the puller on every one of them and never have an issue.
> ...


The puller can't help if the Positemp's brass stem is broken (dealt with two of them just in past month).


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

breplum said:


> The puller can't help if the Positemp's brass stem is broken (dealt with two of them just in past month).


That really sucks. I've never had that happen. I've had the center stem pull out and needed to use a spiral extractor for the outer piece though.


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## RossFrank (Oct 21, 2020)

Delta 1700 will win hands down. The supply never dries and you get the spares as you need.


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## VictorPlumber (Feb 26, 2019)

*Moen PosiTemp*


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

breplum said:


> The puller can't help if the Positemp's brass stem is broken (dealt with two of them just in past month).





skoronesa said:


> That really sucks. I've never had that happen. I've had the center stem pull out and needed to use a spiral extractor for the outer piece though.


I am not sure I even want to post this but....

phuk it here goes nothing....

there is a superior puller out there...






I have watched you guys brutalize each other, I can only imagine what you are going to say to me.


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## The cable guy (Oct 31, 2020)

I want one if I ever ran into moens down here I’d actually pick one up but I have yet to come across one maybe if I still lived in Wichita.Thanks for sharing


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

The cable guy said:


> I want one if I ever ran into moens down here I’d actually pick one up but I have yet to come across one maybe if I still lived in Wichita.Thanks for sharing


When you were in Wichita, did you use The Tap of Kansas as a supplier?


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## The cable guy (Oct 31, 2020)

bawalter said:


> When you were in Wichita, did you use The Tap of Kansas as a supplier?


Hell yeah i did those guys are awesome 😎. A customer of y’all’s?


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## bawalter (Dec 23, 2020)

The cable guy said:


> Hell yeah i did those guys are awesome 😎. A customer of y’all’s?


Just became a customer in the last 18 months. I really like them.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

bawalter said:


> .................there is a superior puller out there...
> ................


I can do the same with my chrome puller using a piece of pipe. If the outer piece gets stuck I have a whole extractor set.

If I was just starting out I'd probably get your ona puller, but given I have the old chrome one and a bunch of other extractors I've never had an issue and don't think I ever will.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

bawalter said:


> ........................I have watched you guys brutalize each other, I can only imagine what you are going to say to me.


The glasses make you look like a nerd......lolz


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> Only Moen and I have some left over delta. Delta is on the way out, cartridge are at 120$ plus mark up and people get angry I'm robbing them.
> 
> Moen: I haven't had too many problems getting tub/shower cartridges out with a puller. For roman tubs however they are a nightmare.


Yes the delta cartridges are high,but you can go to Lowe's and buy them for 48.00 bucks,a delta rep swore to me that they are the same faucets in big box stores and plumbing supply houses for us pros,I dont know for sure and have no way of verifying what he said


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Dontbitenails said:


> Delta Multi choice, knock out the shower restrictor for full flow. Moen next but machined ports are only so big . No big thing unless you have a divertor valve after the mixing valve and want to run more than one shower head. The Delta multi choice has better flow. Both cartridges have their issues. Does anyone else use a Moen tub / shower faucet for just a shower stall. I connect the shower head to the port for the tub spout and cap the port that went to the shower, much better flow but a pain to construct. Delta much easier.


I never thought nothing about this,so the tub port is a larger opening allowing more flow,correct???that would be some crazy faucet building there lolololol


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Nazareth said:


> I mainly install Moen positemp or Moentrol, but the cartridges for the positemp keep going up in price (if you don't play the system and get em for free), and sometimes those cartridges are a real pain to get out. I hate to install a piece of hardware just because that's "what I was taught." I want to know that what I am putting in is going to last, and is right.
> 
> Here in UT cartridges on positemps last maybe about nine months to a year because of the hard water.
> 
> Have you guys noticed any valves that seem to deal with hard water better than others?


No,they all suck in hard water


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

N


skoronesa said:


> I keep a 4x5 drop cloth right in my tool bag.


not me,i sit crap anywhere it makes it easier for me to work,most people don't clean their fixtures that well anyways so stuff goes down on it for me so I don't have to bend over to reach and grab


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> Yes the delta cartridges are high,but you can go to Lowe's and buy them for 48.00 bucks,a delta rep swore to me that they are the same faucets in big box stores and plumbing supply houses for us pros,I dont know for sure and have no way of verifying what he said


I'm in Canada prices are high. Loowes is an hour away. Roona is owned by Loowe and the price tag today is 104$, sure you can buy knock off for a little bit cheaper but I avoid them if I can.

Yes manufacturers (moen&delfa) now supply the same quality to plumbers as to the diy. It's been like that for at least a decade.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

sparky said:


> I never thought nothing about this,so the tub port is a larger opening allowing more flow,correct???that would be some crazy faucet building there lolololol


Crazy?


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Tango said:


> I'm in Canada prices are high. Loowes is an hour away. Roona is owned by Loowe and the price tag today is 104$, sure you can buy knock off for a little bit cheaper but I avoid them if I can.
> 
> Yes manufacturers (moen&delfa) now supply the same quality to plumbers as to the diy. It's been like that for at least a decade.


The delta cartridges I'm talking about from Lowe's is in the delta package like it comes from a supply house,same tough plastic


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## Dontbitenails (Oct 16, 2020)

sparky said:


> I never thought nothing about this,so the tub port is a larger opening allowing more flow,correct???that would be some crazy faucet building there lolololol


Yes the ports for tub filler portion are larger as the shower is the only portion of the faucet that the government thinks we need to restrict for water conservation.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Dontbitenails said:


> Yes the ports for tub filler portion are larger as the shower is the only portion of the faucet that the government thinks we need to restrict for water conservation.


I'd like to see a tub being filled with the shower head only, better get a waiting chair in the meantime.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Moen, it is a good value work horse, other then that what ever the client supplies.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

I've noticed that delta has changed the tub/shower rough in valve so that copper shower restriction part can't be knocked out, it's a machined part of the brass now. There is also a shower only valve they have that doesn't have a bottom tub port and the port for the shower is unrestricted. Just knock out the restrictor from the shower head and you'll have better pressure.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

I use the Delta R10000 rough valve in some configuration. I let the customer pick the trim level they want. From basic to thermostatic.


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## paulheck (Nov 10, 2021)

I like Delta because their installation is quick and easy, and I like that they offer a non-discriminatory pricing scale (meaning anyone can afford one). Moreover, since it's the leading manufacturer of shower valves, any authorized plumber can service your valve to keep your plumbing up to code.
Plus there are so many different styles to choose from! You'll never run out of options. If you need help choosing the perfect style for your home please let us know--we're happy to look through all our brochures with you at our store location.
And if you don't want to ever worry about replacing or repairing anything--that's ok too because these valves and showerheads come with lifetime warranties on everything! some of the best are listed Deleted


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## KCPlumb (Oct 26, 2021)

Delta Multichoice with integral stops. Easy install with multiple trim options for customers.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

KCPlumb said:


> Delta Multichoice with integral stops. Easy install with multiple trim options for customers.


Stop feeding into these overseas spammers! If they have one post and drop a link, flag it. Please.


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## KCPlumb (Oct 26, 2021)

OpenSights said:


> Stop feeding into these overseas spammers! If they have one post and drop a link, flag it. Please.


I guess I'm just too old and ignorant to know what you're talking about.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

KCPlumb said:


> I guess I'm just too old and ignorant to know what you're talking about.


He means don't respond to them, just click the three dots in the top right of the post and report it as spam.


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## cutuzov (Feb 20, 2021)

I have been installing/servicing mostly Moen Positemp Moentrol some Delta and lately Moen M-core and since we are talking about the personal preferences I would go for Positemp for being the best value and most installer friendly.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

cutuzov said:


> I have been installing/servicing mostly Moen Positemp Moentrol some Delta and lately Moen M-core and since we are talking about the personal preferences I would go for Positemp for being the best value and most installer friendly.


Long time no see.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

cutuzov said:


> I have been installing/servicing mostly Moen Positemp Moentrol some Delta and lately Moen M-core and since we are talking about the personal preferences I would go for Positemp for being the best value and most installer friendly.


Agreed. Moen PT for ease of installation and service, Hands down! Only ever one problem- the cartridge. Moen PT is a great workhorse for a basic shower control, esp for the price- it can’t be beat. 
Altho..
I just bought 10 “American standard R121’s” from Amazon for $75 each- rough-in only, easy flip..


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## cutuzov (Feb 20, 2021)

life 


skoronesa said:


> Long time no see.


I will pretend that i have a life


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