# Lead 90 flush with concrete slab. How do i attach a new flange



## Drewp311 (Sep 17, 2011)

I have a slab house that I need to set a w.c. But the lead 90 is flush with the concrete and there is no flange. I don't know how the flange was connected before, this is how I found it. An expandable CI flange won't work b/c it's too small and too deep. (The lead 90 is very shallow.) I was brought up in new construction so I have not ever run into this. Any ideas?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Drewp311 said:


> I have a slab house that I need to set a w.c. But the lead 90 is flush with the concrete and there is no flange. I don't know how the flange was connected before, this is how I found it. An expandable CI flange won't work b/c it's too small and too deep. (The lead 90 is very shallow.) I was brought up in new construction so I have not ever run into this. Any ideas?


 This is the time to find a good service repair plumber to bail you out... I admitt that I havnt come across this.. but sounds like concrete breaking time to make it right and correct.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

use 50/50 solder to install a new brass flange or use torch to clean up the old flange.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Got a sheet of lead ??? And brass ring for the flange

Just add to the existing lead 90 by sweating on an extension of lead put brass ring down and pound lead down over top of the brass


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Easy

Get a repair flange and a box of tapcon screws.

Tapcon are blue concrete screws and they come with a drill bit in the package.

Set flange in correct position, and drill out 4 holes for the tapcon screws. Next take a dewalt drill and drill all 4 tapcons into slab and this holds the flange in place. 

Now take your hammer and feather your lead flange over the flange, it will not come out of the concrete and will hold tight.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Drewp311 said:


> I have a slab house that I need to set a w.c. But the lead 90 is flush with the concrete and there is no flange. I don't know how the flange was connected before, this is how I found it. An expandable CI flange won't work b/c it's too small and too deep. (The lead 90 is very shallow.) I was brought up in new construction so I have not ever run into this. Any ideas?


Years back usually there was no flange just peened over lead. Toilets were usually held in place with not closet bolts -- but closet screws, 2 in the back and 2 in the front. Very substantial for the closets were plastered in with morter [like wet base tile]. I can see with age the peened over area corroded away and is gone. Evolution finally put a brass flange on the lead but the peening over surived. Many a closet was set this way with no lead attached to the brass. Why, I would assume that no one of the day figured out that you had to tin brass prior to soldering lead to it. After that was figured out you started to see brass flanges soldered to lead. Today those flanges are still available in shallow, medium and deep configurations. Carefully you must shrink the lead, just like you shrink a smoke pipe section to fit into another. Carefully make the flutes as required to get the new flange over the lead. Then peen the lead into the taper in the flange. Before you do this tin the flange or your work will be for naught. Then the peened joint must be cleaned and straighted. The easist way is with a shave hook, [you can do it by driving a screw driver] [twisting it as you gently tap it around the joint]. Then flux it and solder it
on with a copper iron 3lb should suffice [50/50 solder]. I would recommend anchoring the new flange to the concrete in at least in 4 places.

Have Fun !!


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

They make a lead repair collar called a bishops collar it is specifically designed to place inside a lead closet bend and to attach a copper/ lead closet flange.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

No one has suggested using a Dutchman? If the lead stub is cracked or is too far below the flange, you can use a Dutchman.

Or you can do this...Not the prettiest job...But it works and does the job perfectly. BTW, this was an existing offset flange.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm still learning!!


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I usually solder in a brass flange!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> No one has suggested using a Dutchman? If the lead stub is cracked or is too far below the flange, you can use a Dutchman.
> 
> Or you can do this...Not the prettiest job...But it works and does the job perfectly. BTW, this was an existing offset flange.


Good example Titan. Was looking for a pic I had of one we did but couldn't find it.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Bishop collar


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

These are not mine. Just a couple more examples from the internet.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

Why not open the floor if it is not too deep, and change the lead bend? No need to go to the hub. Sawzall the lead close to the brass ferrule. Melt the wiped joint with your torch. Wipe the bottom smooth while still hot. Use a mission coupling for copper x nh if necessary if the thickness is different. Your choice now: PVC ell, nh ell or closet bend, lead bend. Now you don't have to worry about a leaky lead bend if a new floor is being installed. Hope this helps.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

newyorkcity said:


> Why not open the floor if it is not too deep, and change the lead bend? No need to go to the hub. Sawzall the lead close to the brass ferrule. Melt the wiped joint with your torch. Wipe the bottom smooth while still hot. Use a mission coupling for copper x nh if necessary if the thickness is different. Your choice now: PVC ell, nh ell or closet bend, lead bend. Now you don't have to worry about a leaky lead bend if a new floor is being installed. Hope this helps.


His is a lead stub attached to a PVC stub.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

I thought the op mentioned a "lead 90". Is that attached to PVC?


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Years back usually there was no flange just peened over lead. Toilets were usually held in place with not closet bolts -- but closet screws, 2 in the back and 2 in the front. Very substantial for the closets were plastered in with morter [like wet base tile]. I can see with age the peened over area corroded away and is gone. Evolution finally put a brass flange on the lead but the peening over surived. Many a closet was set this way with no lead attached to the brass. Why, I would assume that no one of the day figured out that you had to tin brass prior to soldering lead to it. After that was figured out you started to see brass flanges soldered to lead. Today those flanges are still available in shallow, medium and deep configurations. Carefully you must shrink the lead, just like you shrink a smoke pipe section to fit into another. Carefully make the flutes as required to get the new flange over the lead. Then peen the lead into the taper in the flange. Before you do this tin the flange or your work will be for naught. Then the peened joint must be cleaned and straighted. The easist way is with a shave hook, [you can do it by driving a screw driver] [twisting it as you gently tap it around the joint]. Then flux it and solder it
> on with a copper iron 3lb should suffice [50/50 solder]. I would recommend anchoring the new flange to the concrete in at least in 4 places.
> 
> Have Fun !!


You don't see any of this type of stuff in my area, it is fascinating to me, great info thanks!


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

newyorkcity said:


> I thought the op mentioned a "lead 90". Is that attached to PVC?


Yes Sir. But it's not a 90*, it's a short lead stub. If you look close at the pic I posted you can see the PVC in the bottom making the turn.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

If you do solder a brass flange onto the lead, keep the heat more on the brass!! If you let the flame stay too long on the lead, you'll blow a hole in the lead in an instant. Then you will have created another problem.

And you will definitely need the 50/50 lead solder. Also, use a fitting brush to scratch up the lead to make it shiny before soldering. Don't leave the dull grey appearance on the lead; clean it up by scratching it with a fitting brush to make it shiny (this gets the layer of oxidation off the lead so it can be soldered).


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## drain surgeon (Jun 17, 2010)

This is the kind of post that makes this site such a great place . You cant learn this kind of stuff in a classroom or in a book.


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