# can cpvc be air tested?



## d78coots

What are the rules regarding testing of cpvc according to UPC?


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## rocksteady

When I was an apprentice in Colorado we used to air test all our cpvc lines. That was about 15 years ago and I believe Colorado was still using the UPC then.






Paul


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## d78coots

rocksteady said:


> When I was an apprentice in Colorado we used to air test all our cpvc lines. That was about 15 years ago and I believe Colorado was still using the UPC then.
> 
> Paul


Would love to air test
The code is kinda of confusing in its wording. States that water piping should be tested at working pressure, or 50 psi ( except plastic). So I read that plastic may be air tested but only at its working pressure and not at 50 Psi? In commercial applications, the psi easily exceeds 50 psi in most instances.


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## gear junkie

Flowguard and charlotte don't recommend it so I've never done it.

http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Manual.pdf


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## ToUtahNow

The rule is, every manufacturer warns against air-testing plastic lines and it should not be done.

Mark


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## U666A

Sure... Bump it up... But wear full chainmail!

Sent from my iPhone using Horribly dangerous advice.


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## Widdershins

d78coots said:


> Would love to air test
> The code is kinda of confusing in its wording. States that water piping should be tested at working pressure, or 50 psi ( except plastic). So I read that plastic may be air tested but only at its working pressure and not at 50 Psi? In commercial applications, the psi easily exceeds 50 psi in most instances.


 If you're talking about testing it for your own peace of mind before turning on the water -- Then I'd pump it up to no more than 40psi and let it sit for an hour or so.

While you're waiting to see if the test holds, walk around and visually inspect every fitting to make sure you didn't miss anything; I've seen unglued fittings hold for days without blowing apart, particularly when they're strapped in too tight.


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## Team BP

We have had so many problems with cpvc we have to air test it at 130psi. There have been instances where a unglued fitting will hold the standard 50% of working pressure test then blow a part later on down the road when places are occupied. This is in massachusetts


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## plumb nutz

I have air tested cpvc with air so many times I lost count, but only in the winter and with a pressure less than 105 psi.

Had another crew test a house with water in early fall, they thought they had alp the water out, come springtime, the whole house was a shower head


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## Mags

100 PSI here in MA. Any and all water piping.


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## Protech

My preferred test method is the "aerodynamics test".

I take the material in question and get about 30 paces from the dumpster.

No pay attention cuz this next part is critical. With an underhanded grasp, grab the material and hurl it at the dumpster. If it maintains an arc trajectory into the dumpster it has past the first stage of the test. It must now stay under test in it's current state for a minimum of one week. If it does not maintain the necessary flight path to the dumpster it will be necessary to leave it there in the flow of traffic for 24 hours. After this point it is acceptable to return to the supply house and flog the counter guy who sold it to you with the defective product.

I can personally guarantee that if this testing procedure is followed exactly, you will never have a leak with the aforementioned product.


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## U666A

Protech said:


> My preferred test method is the "aerodynamics test".
> 
> I take the material in question and get about 30 paces from the dumpster.
> 
> No pay attention cuz this next part is critical. With an underhanded grasp, grab the material and hurl it at the dumpster. If it maintains an arc trajectory into the dumpster it has past the first stage of the test. It must now stay under test in it's current state for a minimum of one week. If it does not maintain the necessary flight path to the dumpster it will be necessary to leave it there in the flow of traffic for 24 hours. After this point it is acceptable to return to the supply house and flog the counter guy who sold it to you with the defective product.
> 
> I can personally guarantee that if this testing procedure is followed exactly, you will never have a leak with the aforementioned product.


I think the next logical course of action could lead us in only one direction...

NH Master, you must perform a test, following PT's post to the letter, and inform the membership immediately of your findings...:laughing:

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Cal

I always test at 100 psi ,,, no problems


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## Redwood

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Sure... Bump it up... But wear full chainmail!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Horribly dangerous advice.


My preference would be Kevlar....

Too damn much stored energy in compressed air...


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## PLUMBER_BILL

d78coots said:


> What are the rules regarding testing of cpvc according to UPC?


Blow a ballon up to 7" in dia. Then fill a ballon to 7" with water. Push a pin into the water filled one [water on the floor] ... Now do the one filled with air. [BAM] Explosion. Test Safe!


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## Protech

It's good to have ya back Bill :thumbsup:



PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Blow a ballon up to 7" in dia. Then fill a ballon to 7" with water. Push a pin into the water filled one [water on the floor] ... Now do the one filled with air. [BAM] Explosion. Test Safe!


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## MD plumber

I have tested cpvc at with air at 100psi for 20 years now here in MD. Every plumber I know around here tests with air.


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## Redwood

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Blow a ballon up to 7" in dia. Then fill a ballon to 7" with water. Push a pin into the water filled one [water on the floor] ... Now do the one filled with air. [BAM] Explosion. Test Safe!


Good to see you up and around Bill. :thumbup:


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## d78coots

Redwood said:


> Good to see you up and around Bill. :thumbup:


Well said.


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## grandpa

MD plumber said:


> I have tested cpvc at with air at 100psi for 20 years now here in MD. Every plumber I know around here tests with air.


Doen't make it right or smart. When you have worked on 4500 PSI air, you get a certain respect for the energy contained in compressed air!


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## U666A

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Blow a ballon up to 7" in dia. Then fill a ballon to 7" with water. Push a pin into the water filled one [water on the floor] ... Now do the one filled with air. [BAM] Explosion. Test Safe!


Well put Bill, glad to see you're feeling better.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## SHAUN C

Hey Coots, we did the Amli building on 2nd street in Austin in 08, tested the cpcv with air:thumbup:


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## SHAUN C

oh, I just realized this thread is a week old  sorry


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## Protech

You CAN air test pex. It doesn't shatter.



ToUtahNow said:


> The rule is, every manufacturer warns against air-testing plastic lines and it should not be done.
> 
> Mark


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## plbgbiz

SHAUN C said:


> oh, I just realized this thread is a week old  sorry


Don't sweat it. Some threads a couple years old surface from time to time.


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## d78coots

SHAUN C said:


> Hey Coots, we did the Amli building on 2nd street in Austin in 08, tested the cpcv with air:thumbup:


We probably crossed paths. We did some roof drains there that year. And trimmed out for for some of the tenants on second street. Also s couple of jobs at the new W building where ACL is


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## pcplumber

*We put air pressure in drains, gas, plastic, and copper*

First plumbing question I ever answered.

Especially, when doing a tract of homes and commercial jobs we put air pressure in all drains, plastic, gas, and copper so we immediately know another contractor breaks or punches a home in one of our pipes. We leave the pressure guages in the pipes until all the ground work is finished and we start the topout.


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## Widdershins

pcplumber said:


> First plumbing question I ever answered.
> 
> Especially, when doing a tract of homes and commercial jobs we put air pressure in all drains, plastic, gas, and copper so we immediately know another contractor breaks or punches a home in one of our pipes. We leave the pressure guages in the pipes until all the ground work is finished and we start the topout.


 Just barely parsed what you just posted.

Y'all should invest in a Spell Checker.

Here's what I gleaned, though; You fully expect your fellow Subs to go out of their way to sabotage your work and you take the appropriate precautions to find and fix their acts of sabotage.

It must really suck to be you.


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## nhmaster3015

I test it with a 2lb sledge... no wait, I remove it with a 2lb sledge :thumbup:


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## Widdershins

nhmaster3015 said:


> I test it with a 2lb sledge... no wait, I remove it with a 2lb sledge :thumbup:


 I use a Laborer and a cordless SawzAll.

Same results.


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## Redwood

nhmaster3015 said:


> I test it with a 2lb sledge... no wait, I remove it with a 2lb sledge :thumbup:


I just grab it with my gloved hand and twist my wrist it snaps right off...


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## jeffreyplumber

I like to test with air. However upc code 609.7 prohibits air testing cpvc water piping dont know why, perhaps safety, but this is code. At least it was code 2000 edition is my latest book.


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## Redwood

jeffreyplumber said:


> I like to test with air. However upc code 609.7 prohibits air testing cpvc water piping dont know why, perhaps safety, but this is code. At least it was code 2000 edition is my latest book.


See Post #15 This Thread...


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## jeffreyplumber

Yea I figured it was for safety. Of course no matter how smart you are our codes in UPC dont give a reason why . Its just prohibited. We can guess and say we know the reason. There are some pretty off the wall reasons Ive heard for a variety of differant codes. 
Air is can be dangerous now denying, Even with copper, I seen caps blow off (un-soldered ) go through drywall


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## nhmaster3015

Ummmmm it's OK at 100lbs with water but a freekin shrapnel bomb with 100lbs of air? More proof that its pretty much tinker toy crap


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## Miguel

I like the stuff simply because it's easy to remove. (sawzall, hammer, piece of 2x4... depends on who or what is around and how much I need to "vent" at that particular time). 
Hydrostatic test to failure is my favorite so far.  Air test? Never more than 5psi for gas vents and the like.


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## Optimus Primer

Page 111 top right hand side, 1st sentence will answer this question that has been going on way too long.

http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Manual.pdf


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## Protech

That actually sounds like a good idea. Got a sub who keeps taking a hammer to your work when it's in his way? Just pump it up to 100PSI.

Bet he won't do that again :laughing:





pcplumber said:


> First plumbing question I ever answered.
> 
> Especially, when doing a tract of homes and commercial jobs we put air pressure in all drains, plastic, gas, and copper so we immediately know another contractor breaks or punches a home in one of our pipes. We leave the pressure guages in the pipes until all the ground work is finished and we start the topout.


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## Optimus Primer

Also see page 113 last Notice box on lower right last sentence. Since there has been debate about this as well.

http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Manual.pdf


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## Cal

house plumber said:


> Page 111 top right hand side, 1st sentence will answer this question that has been going on way too long.
> 
> http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Manual.pdf


 Does the site for PEX say the same ??


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## Protech

house plumber said:


> Also see page 113 last Notice box on lower right last sentence. Since there has been debate about this as well.
> 
> http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/Charlotte_Plastics_Tech_Manual.pdf



So I guess the question is, where will the water temp NEVER go above 140F? :whistling2:

How can the installing plumber know that the customer won't turn up the t-stat? If a t-stat fails, who is liable for the water damages? :whistling2:


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## Optimus Primer

Protech said:


> So I guess the question is, where will the water temp NEVER go above 140F? :whistling2:
> 
> How can the installing plumber know that the customer won't turn up the t-stat? If a t-stat fails, who is liable for the water damages? :whistling2:


​Actually the point of my post was that brass ferrules can be installed on cpvc. There were a few on here saying no way.


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## Protech

house plumber said:


> Actually the point of my post was that brass ferrules can be installed on cpvc. There were a few on here saying no way.


And I am one of them.


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## Optimus Primer

Protech said:


> And I am one of them.


well, you can. :laughing: as long as you dont over tighten.


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## Protech

house plumber said:


> well, you can. :laughing: as long as you dont over tighten.


You must not do too much service. I replace a hand full of leaking compression stops on cpvc lines every year.

Also, should over heating occur in the hot water system, you have just voided the manufacturers warranty and that leaves YOU the installer open to liability in the event of a flood.


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## Optimus Primer

Protech said:


> You must not do too much service. I replace a hand full of leaking compression stops on cpvc lines every year.
> 
> Also, should over heating occur in the hot water system, you have just voided the manufacturers warranty and that leaves YOU the installer open to liability in the event of a flood.


How about at that house where you came to my job? Been there yet?


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## Protech

house plumber said:


> How about at that house where you came to my job? Been there yet?


Not yet. I'll let you know though.


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## Optimus Primer

Protech said:


> Not yet. I'll let you know though.


OK. There is one on Easton Dr and Hollingsworth Hill Ave and Lakeland airport too

Oh and Maxwell too


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## Protech

house plumber said:


> OK. There is one on Easton Dr and Hollingsworth Hill Ave and Lakeland airport too
> 
> Oh and Maxwell too


That's why I love this service area :thumbup:


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## Protech

Did you guys use the ones with the plastic threads on the stems that seize up, then when the HO tries to force it he ends up turning the whole stop and that ring cuts the cpvc stub out?

I can only hope :yes:


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## Optimus Primer

Protech said:


> Did you guys use the ones with the plastic threads on the stems that seize up, then when the HO tries to force it he ends up turning the whole stop and that ring cuts the cpvc stub out?
> 
> I can only hope :yes:


Maybe. 

Just thank me now for future work. :laughing:


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## Protech

I'll tell you another good one I run across quite frequently. The HOs get the bright idea to install one of those crappy titan tankless electric heaters. They end up overheating the water and every brass ferrel on cpvc starts dripping.


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## Redwood

Cal said:


> Does the site for PEX say the same ??


No! PEX will not shatter and form shrapnel when it fails...


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## Optimus Primer

No doubt cpvc sucks. I'll be the first to admit it. I have to install it because my boss tells me to. I have to say though, for all the years we have been running it, we have never had a problem that was caused by installer error. Other than the occasional dry fit which is caught when we pump it up. Even HO error for that matter. Not saying it won't happen. Just hasn't, yet. The houses we do, they are too good to do any work like that so they end up calling us back out


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## Optimus Primer

Protech said:


> Did you guys use the ones with the plastic threads on the stems that seize up, then when the HO tries to force it he ends up turning the whole stop and that ring cuts the cpvc stub out?
> 
> I can only hope :yes:


Brasscraft


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## RW Plumbing

All my code says is water piping must be tested at designed working pressure. If you have 40psi at the meter thats what you use, 80 you use that. The easiest way to test that out is turn the water on. I use PEX, I really have never had a leak issue with it. Also copper is pretty easy to tell if you don't overheat your fittings and wipe your joints. You can look at the joint and tell it will hold.


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