# Cut off valves



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

If I remember my code right it says that all fixtures must be equiped with shut off valves so as to be able to service that fixture without disturbing water to other parts of the house. I see all the time people do this EXCEPT the shower. I NEVER see one on a shower. I install them when the boss aint looking because its the right thing to do, but he along with a lot of other people (Including inspectors) seem to think they are not needed. 

Do you install valves on the showers?


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

No shutoff valves on shower/s here, exception is multifamily complexes, apt, ect.... then we use stops built into the valve.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> No shutoff valves on shower/s here, exception is multifamily complexes, apt, ect.... then we use stops built into the valve.


 Those are called integral stops.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

That's what i use too ,,, integral stops


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I do now, on the rare occasions I do houses.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I prefer to because I may be the one working on it


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

heck here in WI you don't even need stops on the lavs technically, everyone puts them on but technically we only need them on the W.C., K.S., and W.H. and of course sill cocks. Thats for residential anyway


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Bill said:


> I prefer to because I may be the one working on it



Where do you put these valves to where they are accessible when the boss is not looking? Most trim plates would not allow enough room for the valves to be functional. Not to mention, that tile guys barley cut out enough around the valve itself. Integral stops, 3 stories or more.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Where do you put these valves to where they are accessible when the boss is not looking? Most trim plates would not allow enough room for the valves to be functional. Not to mention, that tile guys barley cut out enough around the valve itself. Integral stops, 3 stories or more.


Pop them in right behind the shower valve, then trim it out with an access door


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Those are called integral stops.


Yea I know, I was hoping to get that remark from you,  I could not spell it so there.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Where do you put these valves to where they are accessible when the boss is not looking? Most trim plates would not allow enough room for the valves to be functional. Not to mention, that tile guys barley cut out enough around the valve itself. Integral stops, 3 stories or more.


that pisses me off too when they throw the plaster gaurds away and just cut a little square around the cartridge.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

not needed or required! but to each his own.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> not needed or required! but to each his own.


They are not needed by the construction guys because they do not have to come back and do service. If it's a choice between installing isolation valves, or rolling up the tools at 2:45 instead of 3:00, what wins? Or saving 20-30 bucks on material costs.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Integral stops is the way it should be done if done at all.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

jjbex said:


> They are not needed by the construction guys because they do not have to come back and do service. If it's a choice between installing isolation valves, or rolling up the tools at 2:45 instead of 3:00, what wins? Or saving 20-30 bucks on material costs.


 
I do construction and I put them on. And I stay until its done or cant go any further. All construction plumbers are not created equal. And believe it or not, I think of the guy that does have to come behind me and make his job easier.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

I always use valves with integral stops. Usually have to trim the tile to gain access, guess the tile guys can no longer cut circles only squares. They hate me when they see the Grohe valves


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I've been trying to get Rohl to put them on their Perrin and Rowe shower valves. Problem is that they don't make the valve, Perrin and Rowe does and from their perspective (over in England), it's not a priority.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

house plumber said:


> I do construction and I put them on. And I stay until its done or cant go any further. All construction plumbers are not created equal. And believe it or not, I think of the guy that does have to come behind me and make his job easier.


Probably most of the people here are a cut above the average, and do the things the right way way.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Bill said:


> Do you install valves on the showers?


Integral stops weren't required here - then they were - then they weren't. Now I'm not even sure, but I always buy my valves with integral stops now. I'm in the habit. So, YES! :thumbup:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I can't remember how many stairs I have climbed between the basement and second floor hall or masterbath to change out Moen cartridges. Integral stops are sweet.


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

futz said:


> Integral stops weren't required here - then they were - then they weren't. Now I'm not even sure, but I always buy my valves with integral stops now. I'm in the habit. So, YES! :thumbup:


 
New code says we don't have to put stops at fixtures anymore... but any half decent plumber still does.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

SPH said:


> New code says we don't have to put stops at fixtures anymore... but any half decent plumber still does.


There are some things in this new code that I VERY MUCH disagree with. Some stupid people worked on this one. The "no stops at fixtures" is only one of the idiotic things in there. Good thing there's no law against exceeding code minimums.


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## Plumber911 (Dec 19, 2009)

Forget the code just do what you no is right problem solved!


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## brass plumbing (Jul 30, 2008)

i've been putting in tub/shower rough in with built in stops
delta, moen & american standard


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumber911 said:


> Forget the code just do what you no is right problem solved!



How about posting an intro. Thanks


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## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

ron is he allowed to post that word , i know its typed with something that looks like a c but isnt, but im just wondering if that is allowed?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

posting rules state cursing is to be kept to a minimum. 
He didn't even post a word. 
I have ridden you about it in the past strictly because i dislike you.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> posting rules state cursing is to be kept to a minimum.
> He didn't even post a word.
> I have ridden you about it in the past strictly because i dislike you.


 Thats hilarious......I like how you just man up and tell it.:thumbsup:


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I removed it though.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Hehe:laughing:

Thank you Bill. You are a gentleman and a scholar.:thumbsup:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Looked like the word funk to me, same spelling, but missed hitting the 3rd letter of that word on the kb


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

jjbex said:


> They are not needed by the construction guys because they do not have to come back and do service. If it's a choice between installing isolation valves, or rolling up the tools at 2:45 instead of 3:00, what wins? Or saving 20-30 bucks on material costs.


:thumbup: i agree jj and most applications in commercial come with the integral stop or we add one per contract at the expense of the gc very nice and the way to go, so it goes in. in residential i will advise of it but most ho don't spring for the extras. they assume it will be the last time they change it or need work on it.:yes:


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## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

that cool ilplumber, well i wasnt asking you a question so if you dont like me why do you insist on answering my question?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Kyle181 said:


> that cool ilplumber, well i wasnt asking you a question so if you dont like me why do you insist on answering my question?


Just for my personal enjoyment. Merry Christmas Kyle.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> :thumbup: i agree jj and most applications in commercial come with the integral stop or we add one per contract at the expense of the gc very nice and the way to go, so it goes in. in residential i will advise of it but most ho don't spring for the extras. they assume it will be the last time they change it or need work on it.:yes:


I have two guys doing a domestic water repipe at a power plant. I ordered out the material and told the lead man, "if I missed any valves, call the supply house and get them." This is in a second floor stockroom, feeding a bunch of fixtures spread all over the 3rd floor. Every branch gets a valve and every riser gets a valve. I threw a extra 3 hundred into my number for valves I knew I would miss. Some of the 3rd floor is subject to freezing, and some of the piping is still galvo. So, you can never have too many valves.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

jjbex said:


> I have two guys doing a domestic water repipe at a power plant. I ordered out the material and told the lead man, "if I missed any valves, call the supply house and get them." This is in a second floor stockroom, feeding a bunch of fixtures spread all over the 3rd floor. Every branch gets a valve and every riser gets a valve. I threw a extra 3 hundred into my number for valves I knew I would miss. Some of the 3rd floor is subject to freezing, and some of the piping is still galvo. So, you can never have too many valves.


:thumbup: tell me about it. we just finished doing valve tags at the ucdavis cancer center expansion in Sacramento. hundreds of valves one on every fixture. trap primers included and most have integral stops! for service you can't beat it! lot's of extra work.:thumbsup:


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> :thumbup: tell me about it. we just finished doing valve tags at the ucdavis cancer center expansion in Sacramento. hundreds of valves one on every fixture. trap primers included and most have integral stops! for service you can't beat it! lot's of extra work.:thumbsup:


And don't forget a union at the trap primer.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Bill said:


> If I remember my code right it says that all fixtures must be equiped with shut off valves so as to be able to service that fixture without disturbing water to other parts of the house. I see all the time people do this EXCEPT the shower. I NEVER see one on a shower. I install them when the boss aint looking because its the right thing to do, but he along with a lot of other people (Including inspectors) seem to think they are not needed.
> 
> Do you install valves on the showers?


 
I just read your code and 606.2 states you need shut offs before all plumbing fixtures except for bathtubs and showers in one and two family homes. That is pretty consistent with both the UPC and the IPC.

Mark


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> I just read your code and 606.2 states you need shut offs before all plumbing fixtures except for bathtubs and showers in one and two family homes. That is pretty consistent with both the UPC and the IPC.
> 
> Mark


Thats what I am saying. Now, the code also says these valves must be installed so as to be able to service the fixture without disrupting water supply to the rest of the home. If they are not installed on tubs and showers, how do you service them without shutting off the water to the rest of the home?

Contradictory, aint it?


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

Plumbus said:


> And don't forget a union at the trap primer.


:thumbsup:a union at everything!!!


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Bill said:


> Thats what I am saying. Now, the code also says these valves must be installed so as to be able to service the fixture without disrupting water supply to the rest of the home. If they are not installed on tubs and showers, how do you service them without shutting off the water to the rest of the home?
> 
> Contradictory, aint it?


I believe the rationale has always been the tub and/or shower valves last longer and they do not need as much repair as a faucet or ballcock does. Of course my tub valve in my front bathroom is leaking like a son of a gun today but my son has my truck in Idaho and I'm too cheap to buy new cow bells and a seat wrench. I hope it will last until Tuesday.

Mark


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## winslow (Jan 3, 2010)

Bill said:


> Pop them in right behind the shower valve, then trim it out with an access door


I use brasscraft screwdriver stops, they come in either sweat or IPS so they can can rough in as tight as the valve equipped with the intergal stop, as the trim plate is the same size for both.


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