# Identify Shower valve



## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

Needs cartridge replaced because it's causing cross connection on Navien water heater........


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

No pics of the cartridge? Kinda helpful.


Ps. Thinking Rohl based on the screw location on the escutcheon.


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

Sorry, long day and in a hurry... will take apart next week.


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## Mikeob1998 (Apr 22, 2018)

So the shower carti is mixing the hot and cold, is that causing the water to be cold (on the hot side) at other fixtures then? Since it’s not circulating properly though the tankless? Apprentice here by the way, so thanks in advance if anyone has time to post anymore info on the subject!


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

Yes, a single handle faucet can be bleeding cold water across to hot side diluting the hot water. This will rarely if ever be detected on a tank type water heater. Install a tankless unit & your cross connection finding skills get tested......


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Plumbergeek said:


> Yes, a single handle faucet can be bleeding cold water across to hot side diluting the hot water. This will rarely if ever be detected on a tank type water heater. Install a tankless unit & your cross connection finding skills get tested......


Now why is there a difference in tank or tankless for detecting a cross connection? 

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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Plumbergeek said:


> Needs cartridge replaced because it's causing cross connection on Navien water heater........ <snip>


*Sorry guys but the wrong term is being used.
** 
Cross Over is the term not Cross Connection.

There is no mixing of pure and impure water!
*


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

The Dane said:


> Now why is there a difference in tank or tankless for detecting a cross connection?
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


Backpressure against flow valve prevents adequate flow of water through valve causing the computer to set incorrect heating rate.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Plumbergeek said:


> Backpressure against flow valve prevents adequate flow of water through valve causing the computer to set incorrect heating rate.


Interesting and good to know, thanks.

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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

*Sorry guys but the wrong term is being used.
** 
Cross Over is the term not Cross Connection.

There is no mixing of pure and impure water!

That's not necessarily correct in all instances, Bill.
If your water heater is harboring certain bacteria, it would contain impure water. Rare, but not impossible. 
*


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Mikeob1998 said:


> So the shower carti is mixing the hot and cold, is that causing the water to be cold (on the hot side) at other fixtures then? Since it’s not circulating properly though the tankless? Apprentice here by the way, so thanks in advance if anyone has time to post anymore info on the subject!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Check here and oh post more...

https://www.plumbingzone.com/f7/adventures-soap-opera-80969/index32/#post1188472


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

Update: New Pics


















I have never seen anything like this? In first pic where I removed the stem? it looks like some sort of diaphram inside but I could not find a way to get to it?


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Might be this. I tried posting a pic of the cartridge, but PZ isn't cooperating, i saw on the site that had the identical spline thing near the splines the handle attaches to. I think you didn't take out the whole thing, but not 100% sure. That Chicago Faucet site should be able to help you out if you contact them.

https://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com...mostatic-Rough-In-Valve-p/cif-289.715.999.htm


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

chonkie said:


> Might be this. I tried posting a pic of the cartridge, but PZ isn't cooperating, i saw on the site that had the identical spline thing near the splines the handle attaches to. I think you didn't take out the whole thing, but not 100% sure. That Chicago Faucet site should be able to help you out if you contact them.
> 
> https://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com...mostatic-Rough-In-Valve-p/cif-289.715.999.htm


That looks exactly like it! Thank You Chonkie! :smile:


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## MirMahmutovic# (Nov 4, 2018)

The Faucet Shoope in Chicago, has incredibly smart people who can identify any type of part on a shower valve, faucet and such. They have same day shipping if your out of state and prices are second to none, at least in Chicago.


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## breplum (Mar 21, 2009)

Backflow troubleshooting notes: Just last week had a tank WH with recirc going into the bottom of the WH with check valve installed where complaint was cold water coming out of hot valves all over the house. I checked the check valve which was ok.
The shower pressure balance valve was a Kohler K304 series.
FIX= replace the pressure balance spool: KOHLER GENUINE PART GP500520 CARTRIDGE FOR PRESSURE BALANCING UNIT (SHOWER)
Replacing cartridge solved it.


And prior week: Navien recirc system with complaint of no hot water at low floor kitchen when upstairs had shower running.
Had to be a check valve problem.
Navien has an onboard check valve that is a dream to service. Sure enough, when I pulled that check valve, it was sort of frozen into the closed position and when I used a tiny screwdriver, freed up the spring mechanism and it now works fine. Navien also sent a replacement for the future.


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## breplum (Mar 21, 2009)

Be careful in ordering, Cifial might also make a standard 1/2" version of that valve.


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

breplum said:


> Backflow troubleshooting notes: Just last week had a tank WH with recirc going into the bottom of the WH with check valve installed where complaint was cold water coming out of hot valves all over the house. I checked the check valve which was ok.
> The shower pressure balance valve was a Kohler K304 series.
> FIX= replace the pressure balance spool: KOHLER GENUINE PART GP500520 CARTRIDGE FOR PRESSURE BALANCING UNIT (SHOWER)
> Replacing cartridge solved it.
> ...


I've had plenty of experience with Navien's cheap plastic check valve.:vs_mad:
I wish they could beef it up a little......


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

I still haven't found the mixing valve in the US?


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## Random plumber (Dec 3, 2018)

I couldn't log into my regular account, I guess I haven't been on since the password issue hit a while ago so I just made another account so I could post this.

I don't recognize that trim but the bottom part of the valve is a first generation Moen s3371 valve. Look up Moen 130158 and 130156 for the parts you will need to fix it.

In the one picture you only removed the front of the thermostatic cartridge. You may need an easy out tool to remove the rest of the cartridge. I think you will also need a 26mm socket to replace those check valves. I just had to service two of those valves last week for also letting the cold mix into the hot affecting the Takagi tankless water heater.


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