# Moen Posi temp...are nothing but trouble.



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I fought with a moen posi temp tub faucet today... and that turned into a manhood contest

I have the extractor tool and basically after melting out the plastic shaft about 1/2 inch into the bonnet it finally came out..... 
I heated up a craftsman screwdriver till it was red hot and burned my way to victory.....gouged out the plastic and finally got a good enough grip on it to pull it free...

I thought I was doing great , got the small peices of rubber out of the bonnet and blew out the water to make sure it was clear......

 put the whole thing together and now no water will come out of the tub spout...... 
 Either something has come up the line and stopped up the hot side of the faucet or a small peice of the rubber has somehow broken free and got lodjed into the tub--shower diverter inside the faucet...


I cant win no other way that I can think of so tomorrow I install a delta 1700

the posi temps are a good faucet until you have to tangle with repairing one


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Sometimes while extracting the old cartridge, bits of the black rubber which disintergrates when wrenching on it, get lodged into orifices that give the hapless plumber fits.


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

Moen and delta are pretty much the majority of what I see around me. 

I tangle with the stuck posi temp cartridge a lot honestly. If I can't get the cartridge to rotate 90 degrees so that the rubber dosnt shred in the hot and cold inlet holes, ill chip the plastic off the front portion of the cartridge until I can pull out the spool. 

Then I take a hacksaw blade and stick it inside and carefully cut through the plastic on the bottom. 
After I have that one slit, I carefully get a screwdriver In between the brass and plastic , then get a pair of needle nose pliers on it. You just twist it and the plastic just kinda rolls up and collapses inside itself and you just pull it right out. 


I've seen guy break tiles, pipes, chip tubs, grunt and give up on them. 

I always peice the rubber shreds back together and see if any is missing also...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Nathan901 said:


> Moen and delta are pretty much the majority of what I see around me.
> 
> I tangle with the stuck posi temp cartridge a lot honestly. If I can't get the cartridge to rotate 90 degrees so that the rubber dosnt shred in the hot and cold inlet holes, ill chip the plastic off the front portion of the cartridge until I can pull out the spool.
> 
> ...












The first thing I do is to rotate the cartridge 90 degrees then firmly pull it out.
That's the key. In fact, it's essential with a stuck cartridge: rotate it 90 degrees. After rotating it a quarter-turn, they usually almost always pull right out.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I have always hated Moen posi temps but, they are good money makers :laughing:


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

If the cartridge puller doesn't get it don't waste time. Break the plastic outer part, pull the internal cartridge then pull rest of body out in pieces. So long as you don't intentionally bang of the brass body it will come out. Clean out all debris and install a new cartridge. 


Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes if your diligent. 

Then again my opinion is if it breaks good they are getting a new delta. Fortunately for my customer I get the POS out. :laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> If the cartridge puller doesn't get it don't waste time. Break the plastic outer part, pull the internal cartridge then pull rest of body out in pieces. So long as you don't intentionally bang of the brass body it will come out. Clean out all debris and install a new cartridge.
> 
> 
> Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes if your diligent.
> ...


 
that is what basically went own, I even had the customer turn on the water meter and we blew out the lines full force for 5 seconds... 

put the thing together and still could not get flow out of thehot side..

gonna take the faucet out and se if something is lodjed inside the shut off valve on thehot side..


the lady folks get nervous when you take a actelyne torch and start burning out the plastic body with a hot screwdriver...


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

Did you try another cartridge? Oem? 


I see it a lot where people go out of town or if the valve isn't used for a long period of time. 
You get full flow out of the cold, but a mild trickle out of the hot side. Something inside swells or get stuck. 

It always is fixed by replacing the cartridge in my experience.


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## BC73RS (Jan 25, 2014)

Nathan901 said:


> Did you try another cartridge? Oem?
> 
> 
> I see it a lot where people go out of town or if the valve isn't used for a long period of time.
> ...


I had a cartridge do exactly that, the shower was set aside for at least 6 months during a reno...and yes the used one was bear to get out, one of the two rubber seals came loose, may have been the hot side too.


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## Gruvplumbing (Dec 26, 2013)

I really doubt this could be what is going on but I'm going to say it anyways. I've only seen it happen once. But the reason we found the problem so fast was because my old man has seen it happen once befor that time. Anyways it was almost like a marble lodged in the hot side of the shower valve. He was pretty sure they came out of the hot water heater almost like a check valve type dielectric nipple. It was actually lodged in the cpvc tee going up to the shower valve.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> If the cartridge puller doesn't get it don't waste time. Break the plastic outer part, pull the internal cartridge then pull rest of body out in pieces. So long as you don't intentionally bang of the brass body it will come out. Clean out all debris and install a new cartridge.
> 
> 
> Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes if your diligent.
> ...


thanks dude I don't have a ton of posi temps but enough..... I have been thinking since my last one if this is the route to take. I fight and fight then ounce it is busted good I finish busting the pieces out. I was think I should cut the middle man and just start to bust the plastic out. it seems to go easy at that point.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> The first thing I do is to rotate the cartridge 90 degrees then firmly pull it out. That's the key. In fact, it's essential with a stuck cartridge: rotate it 90 degrees. After rotating it a quarter-turn, they usually almost always pull right out.


On a Positemp, 90 degrees means it is on the way out already. The brass body is angled so that the lip on the cartridge starts pushing out. I have fought Positemps before, but never lost. (There's the kiss of death). OEM cartridges are a MUST on replacement. Ferguson carries Lincoln aftermarket ones as well as OEM. I have had two that leaked on initial install. No more aftermarket for me.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Letterrip said:


> On a Positemp, 90 degrees means it is on the way out already. The brass body is angled so that the lip on the cartridge starts pushing out. I have fought Positemps before, but never lost. (There's the kiss of death). OEM cartridges are a MUST on replacement. Ferguson carries Lincoln aftermarket ones as well as OEM. I have had two that leaked on initial install. No more aftermarket for me.


I also avoid the aftermarket ones.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I just bash em with a pair of Channellock pliers and they start working... :laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> I just bash em with a pair of Channellock pliers and they start working... :laughing:


 
You cant beat up a Moen posi temp and make it work once the rubber gasket has split inside the valve...

you ought know that only works on icon valves...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Replace it with a MOENTROL and be a hero..


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Replace it with a MOENTROL and be a hero..


Are you sure rj? I thought you say now: replace it with the Glacier and be the hero....


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Redwood, as usual has the best answer, along with rj


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Replace it with a MOENTROL and be a hero..


 This is your answer to everything. I think you've even posted it to people trying to troubleshoot boilers.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

It was replaced yesterday with a Delta 1700

the Delta looks so much nicer than the moen.
Delta 1700 wins hands down over the moen..

and the customer likes the faucet much better....


I might take the time to tear that old moen apart to see
what was lodjed in the hot side of the faucet..
it has a screw-driver type shut off valve built in and I think the system is clogged up in that part...


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Screwdriver shut off built in doesn't sound like a posi temp but I've been wrong before.


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

dclarke said:


> Screwdriver shut off built in doesn't sound like a posi temp but I've been wrong before.


 I've seen posi temps with service stops.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Yup. There is a model with screwdriver stops. Hey RJ, leave the room for a second please. Is he gone? Ok, the reason I know is because I have installed them. Ok RJ, you can come back in now!!


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Never seen one in my area. Guess the supply houses just don't carry them around here.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> It was replaced yesterday with a Delta 1700
> 
> the Delta looks so much nicer than the moen.
> Delta 1700 wins hands down over the moen..
> ...


Did you have to charge the customer the time you took foolin with that cartridge and water flow situation??Bet they had a heck of a bill after install of the 1700!!!


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

dclarke said:


> Never seen one in my area. Guess the supply houses just don't carry them around here.


They have to be special ordered,mostly for hotels and things like that


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> Did you have to charge the customer the time you took foolin with that cartridge and water flow situation??Bet they had a heck of a bill after install of the 1700!!!


 
I did it all for 650..... (cheap)


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

&#^$%#)(&_^##\moentrol&#${^$&#*(@+|\&_!!!!!!!!


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## ibeplumber (Sep 20, 2011)

When the cart. Bottoms out on the end of the puller use 1" PVC spacers. Works like a charm. Can't believe it took me so long to think of this. It allows the cart to come out far enough so you can get your dogs on it to rotate it and rip the rubber that's holding it in place. Then just use a hooked pick to retrieve the rubber out of the ports in the valve.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

ibeplumber said:


> When the cart. Bottoms out on the end of the puller use 1" PVC spacers. Works like a charm. Can't believe it took me so long to think of this. It allows the cart to come out far enough so you can get your dogs on it to rotate it and rip the rubber that's holding it in place. Then just use a hooked pick to retrieve the rubber out of the ports in the valve.


Hmmm interesting, did you cut it different length? Looks like 1/2" the first pic and longer on the other ones. Am I right?


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Ok I see last pic now. Good idea.


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## ibeplumber (Sep 20, 2011)

Gargalaxy said:


> Hmmm interesting, did you cut it different length? Looks like 1/2" the first pic and longer on the other ones. Am I right?


Yes, not sure on the lengths. I just ran out to the truck with sweat dripping off my forehead expecting another drill out the cartridge fight. I cut two different lengths not knowing which I would need. Ended up using the shorter one 1st then when the puller bottomed out again I used the longer one. They worked so good I kept them. So I could measure them if anyone wants to know.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*you win a cookie....*



ibeplumber said:


> Yes, not sure on the lengths. I just ran out to the truck with sweat dripping off my forehead expecting another drill out the cartridge fight. I cut two different lengths not knowing which I would need. Ended up using the shorter one 1st then when the puller bottomed out again I used the longer one. They worked so good I kept them. So I could measure them if anyone wants to know.


 
that looks like what I should have done .....

that is a good idea that I will use the next time I get into a dog fight with one of those faucets...

you win a cookie...:thumbsup:


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Moen says drill a 3" screw into the cartridge and pull. I always use vice grips on the stem and a screwdriver to pry against the left of right side of the body.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

KoleckeINC said:


> Moen says drill a 3" screw into the cartridge and pull. I always use vice grips on the stem and a screwdriver to pry against the left of right side of the body.


Never have to do that with Moentrol..


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Recent job, compete repipe, new 6 ft soaker all new dwv throughout. Ran 3/4 to the new tub and customer supplies me a delta.....face palm.... I offered free labor for a grohe but it's not in the budget she says. Would never install a moentroll. 
Jayclo Danze or Grohe. Something with a little oomph to it.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

When this happens to me I take a small drill bit and tap a hole at a slight angle on the right side of the stem into the cartridge body aiming toward the balancing spool. Then drill a screw in the hole and the cartridge pushes right out. I've had a number of the stems completely break off making the tool useless and I used to chip them out until I learned this trick. Works like a charm. The plastic body of the cartridge slides out of the spool as you screw in. If you don't tap the hole first the plastic body will crack.


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