# bad boiler install?



## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

I don't install boilers, but I found a problem with a customers boiler. I was working on the laundry tub faucet, turned the water back on and heard a dripping sound from the room next to me. I found a newer boiler heavily corroded around the exhaust flu pipe, and dripping condensation where the corregated flue pipe entered the chimney. My customer told me the installer told him to empty the bucket when it got full!? What the hell? I will try to post some pics.


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## intohotwater (Feb 10, 2012)

With the white at the vent the flue gasses are running to cold dropping its dew. The exchanger may also be plugged. Kinda scary. Nice find. Your customer is very lucky to have you.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

It hurts to see how much that equipment costs, and to see it getting damaged in that way.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

That's really hurts!! Are you going to rectify the the system for energy and safety reasons?


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

While I don't like the vent connector, it does appear to have a liner.

This is a case of a non-condensing boiler that is condensing due to operation temps of heat exchanger and flue.

There are two installation techniques to solve copper tube boilers from staying below dew point operation.

Piped system bypass and boiler bypass. Depending on type of system and circulation capabilities one is usually better applied than the other.

It depends on a few factors but the goal is to have minimum 10 minute burn time and boiler supply should reach 110 degrees within 1 minute. A bypass installed and adjusted correctly will do this. 

It is a shame, seeing that boiler installed like that improperly, happens when a common boiler installer shifts from using cast iron to copper tube type.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

pdxplumber said:


> I don't install boilers, but I found a problem with a customers boiler. I was working on the laundry tub faucet, turned the water back on and heard a dripping sound from the room next to me. I found a newer boiler heavily corroded around the exhaust flu pipe, and dripping condensation where the corregated flue pipe entered the chimney. My customer told me the installer told him to empty the bucket when it got full!? What the hell? I will try to post some pics.



What would be the correct venting? I'm not a boiler installer so I am just asking for academic reasons. 


No matter if its boilers, plumbing, drains whatever, when I hear of a company telling a person to live with a leak it really chaps my rear. :furious: 

If there is something leaking on work you did and you are ok with that, you should *Get out Now. *The trades don't need that kind of misrepresentation from what should be a professional.


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks for all the help! I don't know everything, but I know what I don't know. I'm not licensed for boiler work and have no experience with it. As far as I can tell, hydronic heating requires a great deal of experience and education to be done safely and efficiently. I wish other contractors would stick to what they know and stop installing messes like this. I'm looking for a good boiler contractor in the Portland area. If anybody can make a recommendation please let me know. Thanks again for the great information. I might end up learning something.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

pdxplumber said:


> I don't install boilers, but I found a problem with a customers boiler. I was working on the laundry tub faucet, turned the water back on and heard a dripping sound from the room next to me. I found a newer boiler heavily corroded around the exhaust flu pipe, and dripping condensation where the corregated flue pipe entered the chimney. My customer told me the installer told him to empty the bucket when it got full!? What the hell? I will try to post some pics.


Does this.boiler require an.intake? Is a powervented boiler...if its a high Condensating boiler ill bet anything that chimney will collapse if its original


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> Does this.boiler require an.intake? Is a powervented boiler...if its a high Condensating boiler ill bet anything that chimney will collapse if its original


Come on Joey

Does it look like a cndensating boiler


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Come on Joey
> 
> Does it look like a cndensating boiler


No but I wanted to make sure....just an overall terrible installation


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> No but I wanted to make sure....just an overall terrible installation


Why ?


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Why ?


Flexible pipe as an exhaust you gotta be kidding


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> Flexible pipe as an exhaust you gotta be kidding


You got that right ..,.

Not approve here ... But in all reality if it's good enough to go up the chimney it should be good enough anywhere


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> You got that right ..,.
> 
> Not approve here ... But in all reality if it's good enough to go up the chimney it should be good enough anywhere


I don't disagree but ill take galvanized pipe and flu ells anyday


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> I don't disagree but ill take galvanized pipe and flu ells anyday


You got to give it one thing ... It is seamless


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> You got to give it one thing ... It is seamless


LOL touche


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## Bulldog Plumbing (Nov 9, 2008)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> Flexible pipe as an exhaust you gotta be kidding


The burnham es2 comes with a piece of flexible pipe that they want you to connect from vent dampener to liner. I think it looks like crap.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

It ain't the prettiest installation in the world no doubt but the larger issue is as ZL said, the boiler is not designed to condense but because the piping and radiation are dropping the delta T below the threshold it is. Either a bypass from the feed back into the return or re-piping the boiler to primary secondary or hydronic separator would solve the condensing problem which will by the way,,,,,,destroy the boiler in less than a year if allowed to continue.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

Bulldog Plumbing said:


> The burnham es2 comes with a piece of flexible pipe that they want you to connect from vent dampener to liner. I think it looks like crap.


What if your not connecting to a liner, but instead a galvanized sleeve into brick chimney?


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## Bulldog Plumbing (Nov 9, 2008)

Joeypipes 23 said:


> What if your not connecting to a liner, but instead a galvanized sleeve into brick chimney?


We don't install new natural draft gas boiler without metal liner here. I'm assuming that by sleeve you mean a sleeve that is going into a liner. 
Then we just pipe it up with regular galvanized smoke pipe like your saying. I heard the reason they were providing the flex was because they had some issues with draft because the flue gases are relatively cool. The flex is a double wall aluminum with a layer of fiberglass insulation between them. But your only talking about 2-4 feet of pipe from dampener to liner so how much of a difference could that make. We install them all the time and only had one draft issue. . . Poured vermiculite down chimney and that did the trick. Problem was the guys chimney had a bunch of holes in the brick allowing cold air to penetrate right to the liner making it difficult for boiler to draft.


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## Joeypipes 23 (Feb 2, 2011)

Bulldog Plumbing said:


> Then we just pipe it up with regular galvanized smoke pipe like your saying. I heard the reason they were providing the flex was because they had some issues with draft because the flue gases are relatively cool. The flex is a double wall aluminum with a layer of fiberglass insulation between them. But your only talking about 2-4 feet of pipe from dampener to liner so how much of a difference could that make. We install them all the time and only had one draft issue. . . Poured vermiculite down chimney and that did the trick. Problem was the guys chimney had a bunch of holes in the brick allowing cold air to penetrate right to the liner making it difficult for boiler to draft.


Yea I hear ya man...I always recommended my customers to have a professional chimney guy take a look at it and serviced


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