# If you could change any codes, what would it be?



## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

If you had a chance to change something in your code book, add something, remove something or whatever the case may be, what would it be?

Today, you are the plumbing board, plumbing division, code committee, chief plumbing inspector of your state, and the IPC, UPC, BOCA.. *YOU* are everyone that helps contribute to the code book you carry today.

Let's hear your changes. Have fun all.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Ban Pex.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

Ban cpvc


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Pex and air admittance valves , they make it to easy for the HO


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Ban HO permits.


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## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

Increase the fall requirements for sewer and drain lines to 1/4" per foot or MORE so these stupid water saving fixtures would actually roll a turd down the lines.
:laughing:


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

I would allow aav because of the old homes that sometimes make venting a biitch.


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Oh yeah ! I would make all inspector be licensed Plumber or licensed fire sup. because most of them don't know the code and I rather debate with someone who had to go threw what I did to get my masters !!!! At least when I ask why ? They can answer me and not give me " it's in the code " ok explain it !!! They can't , because they don't know...


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## TraTech (Jan 22, 2012)

I'd change vent penetration sizing, here you have to go up one pipe size or have a minimum 3" for vent terminations. Meaning if you have a 4" vent you have to go to 6" through the roof. Or if you have a 1.5" vent you have to go to 3" through the roof


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

TraTech said:


> I'd change vent penetration sizing, here you have to go up one pipe size or have a minimum 3" for vent terminations. Meaning if you have a 4" vent you have to go to 6" through the roof. Or if you have a 1.5" vent you have to go to 3" through the roof


I'd make the cross sectional venting requirements on remodels more practical -- A two or three bath house with a 4" buildîng drain doesn't need a 4" VTR or its aggregate equivalent.

Cross sectional requirements should match the DFU, not the ancient, oversized building drain.

Passing or failing a job based on the developed length of horizontal vent run should also be discretionary. Having to up size a vent for its entire run just because it is 3 or 4 feet longer on the horizontal portion than the code allows is archaic, costly and oftentimes undermines framing.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Plumber71 said:


> Oh yeah ! I would make all inspector be licensed Plumber or licensed fire sup. because most of them don't know the code and I rather debate with someone who had to go threw what I did to get my masters !!!! At least when I ask why ? They can answer me and not give me " it's in the code " ok explain it !!! They can't , because they don't know...


Wow! You have inspectors who are NOT Licensed plumbers!?


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Yeah it is a joke !


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Plumber71 said:


> Oh yeah ! I would make all inspector be licensed Plumber or licensed fire sup. because most of them don't know the code and I rather debate with someone who had to go threw what I did to get my masters !!!! At least when I ask why ? They can answer me and not give me " it's in the code " ok explain it !!! They can't , because they don't know...


Plumber71,

I can see where that would cause problems, especially if the inspector were to knock you. What are the requirements in your area to be an inspector? How do they know what is code and what is not, if they are not a plumber?

Here, the State of Michigan requires you to be:
A) A Licensed Master or Journeyman Plumber
b) Must have 10 years in the field. Must be verifiable.
c) Must pass Inspector exam to become Article 54 certified 
d) Must not engage in plumbing contracting while you are an inspector
e) Cannot inspect any job that may be 'conflict of interest'
f) Must have a flawless background.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Must be master plumber with liability insurance to purchase amy plumbing related material. Period. Life sentence or death penalty if break law. Lol


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Ban plastic P.O. assemblies.


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

New York should adopt those requirements.


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

Trap arm lengths always seen to be a pain.

Our code is 1 1/4" - 2" max trap arm - 5'
3" - 6'


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

billy_awesome said:


> Trap arm lengths always seen to be a pain.
> 
> Our code is 1 1/4" - 2" max trap arm - 5'
> 3" - 6'


With distances like that, the term 'pain' is putting it lightly. Geesh.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Get rid of all that pesky ridgid pipe and install flex EVERYTHING! 

:jester: :laughing: :jester:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

U666A said:


> Get rid of all that pesky ridgid pipe and install flex EVERYTHING!
> 
> :jester: :laughing: :jester:


It's that way now..... almost. So go ahead, pinch yourself, cuz your not dreaming it.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

In Illinois, you are not allowed to hook up dishwasher drain to barbed connection on disposal. Duhhhhhhhh...


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Make accounting and business part of every master or contractors test requirements. Make a code stating minumin finacial requirements to become a plumbing contractor. 

This will help business owners in the long run.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Presently in Florida, a water filtration company can tie into a potable water line without having a master plumbing license. Normally, one needs a master plumbing license in order to touch a potable water line. I'd like to see that change. Or at a minimum, make the water filtration company have to hire a licensed master plumber to make the connection for them.....:yes:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> Make accounting and business part of every master or contractors test requirements. Make a code stating minumin finacial requirements to become a plumbing contractor.
> 
> This will help business owners in the long run.



They are in OK, but they are basic.


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

billy_awesome said:


> Trap arm lengths always seen to be a pain.
> 
> Our code is 1 1/4" - 2" max trap arm - 5'
> 3" - 6'


Can't figure out why we'd have longer trap arms in BC? What happened to "fall must not exceed the size"? You super sure about those lengths? I'm not.


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## turd-chaser (Jan 22, 2012)

Don The Plumber said:


> Ban Pex.


Why would you want to get rid of pex??


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Nationwide, 


If you build a subdivision that even remotely crosses the 80lb. threshold for water pressure, even if it starts at 70 pounds during the initial construction of the development,


You MUST install/provide adequate protection to regulate incoming pressure at the time of building construction. 



In my years as a plumber, my many years as a master plumber I've seen too many victims where the homes where built in a high pressure zone and the property owners became victims as a result. 

Since the expansion tank is already required for all heating devices whether closed systems or not, installing a less than $100 PRV is not going to be a crippling cost increase for the building construction of a development. 

Of course, installing those devices is the much needed remedy and provides income for me personally but the plumbing codes dictate a "non-fouling design", meaning that it should be created to fail or slowly malfunction due to an oversight or unwillingness to resolve the issue causing problems. 

Many property owners have been victimized by high water pressure, I could be that person if I wasn't educated on the matters and that's what my job is all about.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

plumber666 said:


> Can't figure out why we'd have longer trap arms in BC? What happened to "fall must not exceed the size"? You super sure about those lengths? I'm not.


going off of what code book? NPC should be the same everywhere.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> Make accounting and business part of every master or contractors test requirements. Make a code stating minumin finacial requirements to become a plumbing contractor.
> 
> This will help business owners in the long run.


The tsbpe just did that!!!! effective this year. To be a new rmp in tx you must take a class about business skills!!


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

turd-chaser said:


> Why would you want to get rid of pex??


Isn't it obvious? Cuz anyone that can sqeeze a crimper, can, & will install it. And it has cut the price of plumbing significantly.

Add in my newspaper yesterday. $1300 to repipe average house with pex, & they give you a free 40 gal heater. I'll bet anything, that most of these companys send out unlicensed $10 per hr hacks to do the work. They would have a lot harder time getting away with that, if they had to install copper.

So now instead of doing 1 nice repipe with copper, in a day or 2 time, & making descent profit, you gotta run around to 3, 4, 5 maybe more, jobs & throw in pex. All while working at break neck speed. And most likely, for less money. No thanks.

Got nothin against guys that use it, but that don't mean I have to agree with it or like it. JMHO.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I could care less about changing code. I would rather the state made it a priority to catch unlicensed guys. They should make the law like the one for drugs. If you're caught dealing drugs they can seize anything you have that they think you used in committing the crime. 

Lets see handy hacks keep plugging away when all their tools and vehicles get sold at auction. I hope they don't store anything in their garage either or it's bye bye house.


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

AKdaplumba said:


> going off of what code book? NPC should be the same everywhere.


Bombed through the Big Book yesterday, where are you getting those lengths from?


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## HOT H2O (Sep 23, 2011)

In Florida we are not allowed to pipe a heater pan drain in PVC, yet every heater pan comes with a PVC male adapter.....


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

HOT H2O said:


> In Florida we are not allowed to pipe a heater pan drain in PVC, yet every heater pan comes with a PVC male adapter.....


So what do you do to stay code compliant?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> I could care less about changing code. I would rather the state made it a priority to catch unlicensed guys. They should make the law like the one for drugs. If you're caught dealing drugs they can seize anything you have that they think you used in committing the crime.
> 
> Lets see handy hacks keep plugging away when all their tools and vehicles get sold at auction. I hope they don't store anything in their garage either or it's bye bye house.


To which the inspector replies, what about all those unlicensed plumbers?
I expect there are more unlicensed plumbers driving around than are licensed.


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## HOT H2O (Sep 23, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> So what do you do to stay code compliant?


code lists pipe acceptable for water distribution, such as copper, CPVC, pex. 

but it doesn't use the chart for water service pipe which includes PVC. 

one of our local suppliers will remove the PVC adapter when you but the pan, and give you a 1" CPVC male. that's what I use. unless it's a commercial job, then I pipe it in copper because they're usually spec'd that way. 

my personal opinion is that they named the wrong pipe chart when they wrote the code, but to fix it now someone has to admit screwing up.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

HOT H2O said:


> code lists pipe acceptable for water distribution, such as copper, CPVC, pex.


pan line is not water distribution. It would probably be indirect waste , which would be sanitary sewer. Approved materials for that include sch40 pvc. Just my 2 cents. Sometimes it takes a smart plumber to interpret the meaning to a code official. There is a way to do it..... But it usually takes a personal relationship with that code official. 

Ive overturned codes by showing inspector where it states correctness in code book that said city is under, but it usually is with an inspector i am familiar with. 

I used to install santees on there backs under 3 comp. sinks until the city of fort worth texas said it was unacceptable. We looked in code book, and low and behold it said it was a nono. I knew that i would never think about using them on underground , but always thought that 3 comp sinks were a difference. I was wrong!! It doesent specify. 

Just cause everyone else is doing it doesent mean it is right. The inspector may be telling you that because all his others are doing it or misinterpreting the code. 

Then again, you may live in china. This is just texas . Dont know about your great state.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

It would be nice to restrict the local building departments ability to define what is exceeding the minimum code.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

HOT H2O said:


> In Florida we are not allowed to pipe a heater pan drain in PVC, yet every heater pan comes with a PVC male adapter.....


You cannot use PVC for WH drain pans here either. Are you sure the pans you're getting do not have a 1" CPVC adapter? Here the code requires your piping for a water heater drain pan is permitted to be of material that you can use for water distribution.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

swedishcharm21 said:


> You cannot use PVC for WH drain pans here either. Are you sure the pans you're getting do not have a 1" CPVC adapter? Here the code requires your piping for a water heater drain pan is permitted to be of material that you can use for water distribution.


 






I can vouch for him, the male adapter is definitely PVC, because I live in the same state. The reason that our code doesn't allow PVC for a W/H pan drain is simply because PVC is not rated for hot water. I don't think someone screwed up when the code was written.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

inspector here hasn't called us on that one as of yet.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Epox said:


> To which the inspector replies, what about all those unlicensed plumbers?
> I expect there are more unlicensed plumbers driving around than are licensed.


In this state you must be licensed to touch plumbing. Even an apprentice needs to be registered with the state and have a license thats only good for so long.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I can vouch for him, the male adapter is definitely PVC, because I live in the same state. The reason that our code doesn't allow PVC for a W/H pan drain is simply because PVC is not rated for hot water. I don't think someone screwed up when the code was written.


I hear ya Tommy. PVC is not temp rated here either. When you buy a drain pan here, it already has a 1" CPVC adapter that comes with it. In Florida, do you guys just discard the PVC and run CPVC for the drain pan discharge? Thanks.


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## mtl723 (Mar 31, 2012)

Stop letting handyman or Maintenece guys put water heaters in


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

swedishcharm21 said:


> I hear ya Tommy. PVC is not temp rated here either. When you buy a drain pan here, it already has a 1" CPVC adapter that comes with it. *In Florida, do you guys just discard the PVC and run CPVC for the drain pan discharge? Thanks.[/QUOTE]*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

In an idea world, when a handyhack does a job and screws up he should be charged criminal charges. Charges should be on par with practicing medicine without a license. If you perform surgery on someone and don't know what you're doing, you will go to jail. The same should be said about plumbing. It's easy to forget that what we do could kill someone if done wrong. I was at a job the other day and the WH didn't even have the flue pipe connected. Stuff like this could easily kill someone. A cross connection that pollutes the water supply system can hurt or kill people in an entire house, neighborhood or even city. 

Handyman floods a home, and it should be charged as felony vandalism, depending on the severity of the damage. Have a flue pipe disconnected that fills the basement with carbon monoxide, it should be attempted manslaughter. If you aren't trained and licensed to do the job correctly, you should be considered as having hurt the people purposely. I remember in my apprenticeship school, we read articles about people that were poisoned by cross contamination from lack of backflow protection. People died in those cases. It might come off as whining but I really believe that you can hurt as many people as someone in medicine without a license.


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