# Some guys give our trade a bad name



## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

Have to vent about this. Got a call from builder who I do alot of work for. He recived a call from the buyer of a new house we finished 3 years ago. Buyer had no hot water and called a local company. Company came out and told them that their heater was shot and needed to be replaced. Told the customer that HWH was junk. It was a 40 gallon Bradford power vent. Total to replace 2800.00. Fortunately they had the sense to call the builder, who then called me. Went out and found out power cord at blower got knocked loose. What really steams me is that if the homeowner went along with this clown, we would have been the bad guys for installing junk in high end homes that required 3K replacements in 3 year old homes. How do some people sleep at night.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

There are so many people in the profession of plumbing that are dishonest, deceptive that it's no wonder people are skeptical of the plumber.

And if you see the new construction side of the equation, you'd know why some homeowners have a reason to cry.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I had to take a six hour continueing ed class today. They showed us a dateline clip, about shaddy plumbers. They loosened the flex line on a water heater and called out a few plumber all ow them said they needed a new heater. Dam p should have seen their faces when the camera was shoved in ther face. One guy told they lady she better hurry up and install a new heater befors it explodes and she looses hal# her house wat a holes


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> There are so many people in the profession of plumbing that are dishonest, deceptive that it's no wonder people are skeptical of the plumber.
> 
> And if you see the new construction side of the equation, you'd know why some homeowners have a reason to cry.


I have seen scumbag companies here that will come to a no-heat call during a cold snap, disassemble the furnace, tell the customer they need a new furnace and walk out the door, leaving the customer with a furnace in pieces on the floor and no heat. I guess it sells furnaces. :furious:

On the one I'm thinking of the customer didn't want to do business with sleazebags like that and called me. I reassembled the furnace, replaced the bad thermocouple and told her the sleazebags were right about one thing - she did need a new furnace - just not right away. The old hunk-o-junk was still quite repairable.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

futz said:


> I have seen scumbag companies here that will come to a no-heat call during a cold snap, disassemble the furnace, tell the customer they need a new furnace and walk out the door, leaving the customer with a furnace in pieces on the floor and no heat. I guess it sells furnaces. :furious:
> 
> On the one I'm thinking of the customer didn't want to do business with sleazebags like that and called me. I reassembled the furnace, replaced the bad thermocouple and told her the sleazebags were right about one thing - she did need a new furnace - just not right away. The old hunk-o-junk was still quite repairable.


I used to work for a company back before I had my master plumbing license doing plumbing and oil fired forced hot air. Many times we were told to sell the HO a new furnace. I think thats what prompted me to strike out on my own.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Beside the Dateline show we are all familiar with, I wonder what similarities these shady companies have? 

Pricing structure?

Pay structure? 

Franchise or not? 

It sure sounds like we could find many common practices. In my area there are a couple of big outfits that are known for doing shady things, as mentioned in the OP. 

The worst offender is.....

Flat Rate - Commission pay - Habitual user of unlicensed techs


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

The same could be said for every profession.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Indie said:


> Beside the Dateline show we are all familiar with, I wonder what similarities these shady companies have?


They are crooks....
That's about all folks....


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

So I used to work with a guy that would tell us about the previous companies he worked for, ARS and My Plumber. Flat rate, commission based, and a lot of pressure to bring in maximum sales, LOTS of pressure. Not just hey you need to the commission to take care of your own livelihood, but if you're not averaging this much per week then you're fired real quick. To the point where people who worked there would go into houses for whatever they were there for and dump water behind the water heater, and tell the HO it was leaking. No joke, couldnt believe my ears. That's some shady sh!t right there.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

futz said:


> I have seen scumbag companies here that will come to a no-heat call during a cold snap, disassemble the furnace, tell the customer they need a new furnace and walk out the door, leaving the customer with a furnace in pieces on the floor and no heat. I guess it sells furnaces. :furious:
> 
> On the one I'm thinking of the customer didn't want to do business with sleazebags like that and called me. I reassembled the furnace, replaced the bad thermocouple and told her the sleazebags were right about one thing - she did need a new furnace - just not right away. The old hunk-o-junk was still quite repairable.


Or the guys that will go out on a no heat call, do a simple repair, but screw with the a/c wiring to guarantee a call in the summer...

It happens!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

U666A said:


> Or the guys that will go out on a no heat call, do a simple repair, but screw with the a/c wiring to guarantee a call in the summer...
> 
> It happens!


My HVAC buddy told me about a job where that is exactly what happen. Just a month ago or so. The HVAC company was one of your typical large outfits. Went out last year on a heating call, and bam, this spring the a/c does not work, company condemns it. 

Thankfully, the customer had enough sense to call for a second opinion. Reconnect the wires, and the a/c is working again.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

We have some shady companies that will do things like that here as well..

We have a Mall in town that a lot of different contractors have worked on though the years. They are steady cutting each others throats by going in and jacking with other companies installs and all it is hurting is the customer, and their reputation


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

skitian said:


> So I used to work with a guy that would tell us about the previous companies he worked for, ARS and My Plumber. Flat rate, commission based, and a lot of pressure to bring in maximum sales, LOTS of pressure. Not just hey you need to the commission to take care of your own livelihood, but if you're not averaging this much per week then you're fired real quick. To the point where people who worked there would go into houses for whatever they were there for and dump water behind the water heater, and tell the HO it was leaking. No joke, couldnt believe my ears. That's some shady sh!t right there.



That has more to do with being crooked in general. A crook is going to be a crook no matter how they charge. The boss is shady, but so is the tech. No boss has you by the short hairs, unless your not worth a flip to begin with. If your good at what you do, then there is plenty of outfits out there that will put you to work the next day after you told the shady boss to shove it.

PS,
I'm not pointing this at you, just responding to what you wrote in your post about the guy working for ARS/Mr Plumber.


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

skitian said:


> So I used to work with a guy that would tell us about the previous companies he worked for, ARS and My Plumber. Flat rate, commission based, and a lot of pressure to bring in maximum sales, LOTS of pressure. Not just hey you need to the commission to take care of your own livelihood, but if you're not averaging this much per week then you're fired real quick. To the point where people who worked there would go into houses for whatever they were there for and dump water behind the water heater, and tell the HO it was leaking. No joke, couldnt believe my ears. That's some shady sh!t right there.


No shît I used to work for a company like that, when I came to insurance jobs where we had to evaluate the equipment we had to rip off the tags off furnace / hot tank to stay they had to be replaced, also it prevented other companies for doing a simple change out because the product info was gone. I was happy the day I left that company.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

http://practicebetterbusiness.wordpress.com/2011/08/13/where-have-ethics-and-integrity-gone/


The past few weeks I have visited a few clients where plumbers and plumbing companies have stepped over the line.Do not get me wrong I do believe that sales belongs in our industry. I do believe that the majority of sales professionals also have ethics, integrity and are honest.


When a sales service technician is dishonest and works with very low ethics and integrity we will discover that the company also maintains the same line as the low life they hired.


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## drain surgeon (Jun 17, 2010)

I agree Richard that saled does have its place but I am a PLUMBER first. I have no problem with offering service plans and the like but I will not use strong arm tactics just to feed more money into the company till. If the company I work for tells me that I need to make X dollars in sales per week or sell so many service plans or water filters ect I will pack my tools and take a walk. As I said Im a plumber NOT a salesman and I WILL NOT screw people even if its costs me my job.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

drain surgeon said:


> I agree Richard that saled does have its place but I am a PLUMBER first. I have no problem with offering service plans and the like but I will not use strong arm tactics just to feed more money into the company till. If the company I work for tells me that I need to make X dollars in sales per week or sell so many service plans or water filters ect I will pack my tools and take a walk. As I said Im a plumber NOT a salesman and I WILL NOT screw people even if its costs me my job.


If you are not a salesman then you won't be in business very long. Get it through your head that you are a business owner first. Everythin else is secondary


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> If you are not a salesman then you won't be in business very long. Get it through your head that you are a business owner first. Everythin else is secondary


Many a good plumber makes the mistake of thinking pipe skill translates to business prowess. Nothing could be further from the truth. If on the very day a shop opens, Plumbing Business Operators do not set their mind to being salesmen and surrounding themselves with the right balance of others that can sell the company, their screwed.

There are countless men and women of integrity that while working in or even operating a plumbing business, spout off about how it is there skill that makes people call them, that they are the acme of the field the practice in, they offer honest work, they don't charge a penny more than they absolutely have to, and so on. While all of this may be what they truly believe, it is still just their version of a SALES PITCH.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Reminds me of an exchange attributed to Winston Churchill:


Churchill: “Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?”

Socialite: “My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…”

Churchill: “Would you sleep with me for five pounds?”

Socialite: “Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!”

Churchill: “Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.”


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Sales prowess is absolutely integral to any business from pantyhose to plumbing. But what we seem to often ignore is the clients ability to smell bulls**t. I still prefer to treat my customers to the option. ie: "You need this and it will cost x$. Tell me now because I otherwise need to move on." _or_ "You don't need this BUT if you want it (here are the pros & cons) and it will cost x$. Tell me now otherwise I must move on."
I'm a consumer too, and one thing that will make me pass on a real good deal is the attempt to bamboozle me or otherwise confuse me with unusual terminology. "You say my jim-jammer is shot? Do I really need that? How much to replace it? What other options do I have?"

The best example I have of this is a subdivision that was added in a nearby municipality. The engineering was poorly thought out but the end result was that a booster station was added downstream of about 40+ customers that had city water for as long as they could remember. Now they all needed reducing valves (at their own cost). What wasn't advertised was that the relief valves of their WH would be leaking all over the place. Any plbg co that went in to install the reducing valves KNEW that they'd also need to install thermal expansion tanks. Some held the HO's to ransom but most were very professional in their approach but very few had the respect of the HO's. I've heard many stories of HO's complaining that ABC Plbg told them this or that. ABC Plbg was not in any way wrong or deceptive but to the HO it sounded a little bit too much like smoke and mirrors for them.

Many of those people are still on our client list as repeat customers and I'm sure that less than 10% will ever call ABC Plbg for anything, even though ABC is a very reputable co. They trust us and are sure that we will never betray that trust.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I love these type questions from home owners;
Do I really need that? How much to replace it? What other options do I have?"

Should I or Do I have to wait for the customer to ask those questions or should I be preventive and proactive and give them these answers prior to the question? Isn’t that why I am the expert in my profession and not the home owner?

When you sell the right way there is no smoking mirrors.

Sell on emotion then back it up with logic.

I visited a lady that had a blocked up toilet.(ElgerPatriot) Sitting in the tub is her handy worn out plunger. I walk past the kitchen counter that had several bottles of prescription meds. Pretty basic and laid out for the plumber. Pretty simple auger out the damn toilet and move to the next call.
Not me. How often does this happen? She shows me a stack of invoices from other plumbing companies for the past 2 years. I go through the invoices and each one is plunging or auguring the toilet. My next question; do the toilet stoppages coincide with you taking the medication? Yes. Has anyone talked to you about your diet and medications affecting your movements? No. Would you like to know and understand what is happening and why? Yes. Would you like a solution that will in all likelihood prevent me from visiting you that much in the future for this? Are you kidding me?
Solution is a drake gmax with a larger trap. Take an interest in your customer and the larger problem than what is obviously in front of you the plumber. Address the cause and not the symptom and you will discover sales are easy.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Good observation, very astute Richard. I have heard of a hard BM being the result of certain meds. You gained a customer.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I went to a customers house today, I had been there a month before. Its an elderly couple, the husband ended up flushing a diaper down the toilet. When they called another company they went augered twice, then said they needed a new sewer main. They replaced the sewer main and a week later same problem, so that company gave a qoute to replace plumbing underslab. They called us for a second opinion, I get there give them a qoute, but before i do work i strongly suggest a camera job well they declined. A week passes and they call us back, i stood my ground and told the boss i wont do the work unless she cameras it first. After debating with her and the boss. They both finaly agree well the problem was a calapsed cast iron clean out ten feet where the other plumber tied in. That lady was so happy after she gave me a 200 dollar tip i saved her thousands easy. Sometimes you have to stick by your guns cause sometimes you know best


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I visited a lady that had a blocked up toilet.(ElgerPatriot) Sitting in the tub is her handy worn out plunger. I walk past the kitchen counter that had several bottles of prescription meds. Pretty basic and laid out for the plumber. Pretty simple auger out the damn toilet and move to the next call.
> Not me. How often does this happen? She shows me a stack of invoices from other plumbing companies for the past 2 years. I go through the invoices and each one is plunging or auguring the toilet. My next question; do the toilet stoppages coincide with you taking the medication? Yes. Has anyone talked to you about your diet and medications affecting your movements? No. Would you like to know and understand what is happening and why? Yes. Would you like a solution that will in all likelihood prevent me from visiting you that much in the future for this? Are you kidding me?
> Solution is a drake gmax with a larger trap.


In that application my solution would be a Caroma Toilet.... :thumbup:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Redwood said:


> In that application my solution would be a Caroma Toilet.... :thumbup:


 
100% correct however she did not have the money to pay for the 3 inch trapped toilet. Believe that was an option. Drake was more in line with the dollars at that time.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I was on a job today making a change on a shower base, while I was there the Lady was telling me about some of the experiences she has had with other plumbers. 

The worst story was about what had transpired during the shower remodel I was there to correct. Complete hackery on part of the company that contracted the work. They bought a license and now contribute to giving the rest of the trade a bad name.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

So if you all are upselling toilets to increase the trapway another 1/2"...


just to make a sale instead of mentioning the obvious (laxatives) ...


Are you keeping to your word that when her rectum stretches further 'the next time' that when that toilet clogs,


you're doing it for free? 


I can clog a Kohler Cimmarron without even using toilet paper. 


So can an old lady if she craps what looks like a folgers coffee can once a week.


I'm reluctant to upsell a new toilet over hard large stools because anyone can clog any of them, at any time...

and if you do so, you'll be unclogging that toilet for free, if you're honest. 

The drake does a good job if you like shi.tting in a trough, looking at shi.t streaks for 3 days after dropping a soft stanley.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> So if you all are upselling toilets to increase the trapway another 1/2"...
> 
> 
> just to make a sale instead of mentioning the obvious (laxatives) ...
> ...


Ahhh, you kill me! Dunbar strikes again! I wish you lived closer, I would love to work with you.:thumbup: I would almost go rat for you, Steve.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

What about a pressure assist toilet. Those are pretty cheap and bust up nasty stools pretty easy. I had a customer with the same problem. They put in a cimmeron, and it still happened. I installed a pressure assist toilet, and it solved the problem. The only thing better you can get is a commerical flush valve type, then a blowout fixture. 

Considering you can flush a medium sized shoe (yes I've seen it) through a blowout toilet, Those are usually overkill.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Someone needs to invent a toilet with a garbage disposal in the bowl :thumbsup:


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Someone needs to invent a toilet with a garbage disposal in the bowl :thumbsup:


They have one better it's called an outhouse or porta potty, take as bigger dump as you need.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I love these type questions from home owners;
> Do I really need that? How much to replace it? What other options do I have?"
> 
> Should I or Do I have to wait for the customer to ask those questions or should I be preventive and proactive and give them these answers prior to the question? Isn’t that why I am the expert in my profession and not the home owner?
> ...


Kohler's 1.4 gpf pressure assist toilet keeps our medicated seniors happy. Otherwise Toto G-max, dual cyclone and Kohler class 6 toilets are recommended.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> So if you all are upselling toilets to increase the trapway another 1/2"...
> 
> 
> just to make a sale instead of mentioning the obvious (laxatives) ...
> ...


Yes we warranty the toilet for one year and it is a complete warranty. However I am glad you are not helping my relatives out of plumbing situations offering a solution of laxatives. Especially since it will not help with medications


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

There is no way any of us can stand and promise that NO toilet will ever get stopped up again. We can say it is less likely to stop up.

I am not completely sold on power assist. I repair too many of them to want to install them regularly. I just called Sloan to replace a pressure assist tank that developed pin holes in the tank. There is nowhere for the overflow water to run other than out the trip lever and onto the floor causing a different problem.

Ever have a pressure tank explode and burst the tank? Had that happen at a condo on Lido Key.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Yes we warranty the toilet for one year and it is a complete warranty. However I am glad you are not helping my relatives out of plumbing situations offering a solution of laxatives. Especially since it will not help with medications


 

Aw but contraire wee wee. Since when did we become Dr. Hilliard in the sales position at your company? Since sales went up selling toilets based on the medical front?


I take two medications, both of which are causing hard stools. Both medications are known for this and my doctor warned I'd be shi.tting concrete christmas trees if I wasn't careful. 

But, unless you're truly prying to know exact medications that your clientell is taking, you're walking into a privacy issue that the only reason you're discussing is in the gains of revenue.


As with my recommendation of laxatives, there's no financial gain.


Between the two of us, which one would prefer the cost effective alternative?

Soft stools, or a plumber edging their way into a toilet that's known for unpleasantries in design (toto drake) with a Gmax fill valve that's useless to longevity and reliability.


Of course, do tell your relatives about me; I love working for people that understand simple solutions without dollar signs involved. 


That's the beauty of my design as a business owner/plumber: Not everything is about the dollar and no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, it's still a pig.


Did you measure the size of the opening rectum of that lady you sold that toilet to confirm that the increasing size of that throat of the toilet is substantial.

It all funnels into a 4X3 closet flange so I'm not too impressed with salesmanship when it comes to upselling on toilets.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Chain her to the table, sell a repipe for a 4" drain.

And,


sell a 6" sewer, along with it.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Why sell them on laxatives? Just use the plunger to break up the mass. Sheesh.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Why sell them on laxatives? Just use the plunger to break up the mass. Sheesh.


 

Nobody like to play with their poop before flushing. And then the plunger will have that waste on it with no way to clean it well. People are lazy, they should take a pill and not blow out the blood vessels in their eyeballs trying to take a crap.


10 out of 10 people would rather have a pleasant bowel movement than a forced one.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

True, but even laxatives do NOT help all while on certain medications. Not to mention, prolonged use of laxatives can lead to other problems when used on a long term basis.

A better toilet is not a bad option . . . guaranteeing performance is something altogether different.

Don't buy a better toilet, don't break it down, down flush before adding t.p., don't harm your system with laxatives . . . DON'T BE CHEAP FOR GOODNESS SAKES! YOUR HEALTH IS AT RISK.

Call a Professional Plumber, they like to play in poop. :laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> True, but even laxatives do NOT help all while on certain medications.


 

However, it is a far cry cheaper than a new toilet, and what's the harm in a 5 dollar over the counter medication without getting too personal about ones daily constitution?


I say that for one main reason; I'm the plumber who has to come behind 'plumbers that sell their services when they are not needed' scenario and the upsell of a toilet is one of them.


We're not shi.t examiners so I give my customers a chance to fix their own situation before plan B involves a toilet upsell. 

That's how I roll, and that's how I get the steady stream of customers. They know I'm honest and won't steer them the wrong way. 

Certain branded toilets deserve upgrades, that's a fact. The mansfield, even though I personally like that toilet, it very problematic for some.


As I repeat, I'm the plumber called in after a lot of toilet upsells, why? Because the toilet is clogging again, and that discredits the guy who upsold the toilet completely.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> However, it is a far cry cheaper than a new toilet, and what's the harm in a 5 dollar over the counter medication without getting too personal about ones daily constitution?


How did that Ibuprofen work out again? :whistling2:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Redwood said:


> How did that Ibuprofen work out again? :whistling2:


 
Soft, black stools. (was bleeding for weeks) 


Didn't need a toilet though, just a near death experience. :blink:


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> There is no way any of us can stand and promise that NO toilet will ever get stopped up again. We can say it is less likely to stop up.
> 
> I am not completely sold on power assist. I repair too many of them to want to install them regularly. I just called Sloan to replace a pressure assist tank that developed pin holes in the tank. There is nowhere for the overflow water to run other than out the trip lever and onto the floor causing a different problem.
> 
> Ever have a pressure tank explode and burst the tank? Had that happen at a condo on Lido Key.


Can't say that I have. Also, I had forgotten that these recommendation are for a specific scenario: ADA seat height wanted under a banjo counter top. 

I've seen seniors clog up a dual cylone Toto twice now. We had a ADA Drake removed that kept clogging up too, replaced with a non ADA Kohler pressure assist, not clogged yet.


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## Bathroomgetaway (May 18, 2011)

gladerunner said:


> Have to vent about this. Got a call from builder who I do alot of work for. He recived a call from the buyer of a new house we finished 3 years ago. Buyer had no hot water and called a local company. Company came out and told them that their heater was shot and needed to be replaced. Told the customer that HWH was junk. It was a 40 gallon Bradford power vent. Total to replace 2800.00. Fortunately they had the sense to call the builder, who then called me. Went out and found out power cord at blower got knocked loose. What really steams me is that if the homeowner went along with this clown, we would have been the bad guys for installing junk in high end homes that required 3K replacements in 3 year old homes. How do some people sleep at night.


I new a guy in florida who was notorious for this same thing except he was in hvac he would then sell the used equipment to someone else in the neighborhood. Scam artists are everywhere thats why its so hard to make an honest buck


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## plumber p (Sep 19, 2010)

Here is a link that made me sick!
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/128274568.html


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plumber p said:


> Here is a link that made me sick!
> http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/128274568.html


 He got one of the last Gerber Vipers within 6000 miles -- He should be happy as a pig in shiot.:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Jeez that article sounds kind of familiar...

Didn't mention the chain and the kitchen table though...:laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

plumber p said:


> Here is a link that made me sick!
> http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/128274568.html


 




In short order, the crew from *Flat Rate* Plumbing not only fixed his clog, they replaced the toilet, the bathroom sink and its plumbing, the kitchen faucet, water heater, upstairs bath fixtures and even some outside faucets.


Damn, what a beauty. I should call the McKenzie brothers.



I need someone to confirm those are Wolverine Brass boiler drains in that picture as well. That off color reddish orange uh huh... see the pattern?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I need someone to confirm those are Wolverine Brass boiler drains in that picture as well. That off color reddish orange uh huh... see the pattern?


Doesn't look like they are.

The flats for the wrench are much thicker on those valve and Wolverine has a stem nut and a packing nut where those are single nuts...

Laundry faucet doesn't match either...

But It was Flate Rape with a Lenny The Loanshark Note for financing...


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

We got screwed out a real nice big job a few years ago, a new school. The winning bidder messed up their tender documents and normally the bid would've been chucked out, but they got it anyway. We were second lowest, there were complaints from all the GCs and the school board but yaddayadda.

A year after warranty later, I'm in there fixing tons of stuff. The whole heat pump system has never worked. 50 gallon glycol fill tank jammed under the stairs where you can't get to it, chemical pot feeders on the wall behind pumps you can't get to. Strainers on the wrong side of the pumps. Balancing valves in backwards. Maid-O-Mist air vents on 6" pipes. No hangers anywhere in the mechanical rooms. I'm pulling out a 4" base mounted pump and using tiedown straps to hold pipe up so the whole mess doesn't fall on me. Zero isolation valves. Just pathetic.

Asked the school board bigshot where the engineers were while this crap was going on. He said this is the little stuff that fell between the cracks. The whole project was messed from the git go. The contractor had to rip out all the underground storm and sanitary because there was little to no grade on it, and the job continued that way the whole way through.

So it's not only some guys give our trade a bad name, it's some companies.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I watched an idiot install a heat pump a couple years back. It took him the best part of the summer and when he finally fired it up....nothing. So he spends the next couple of days trying this and that and still nothing. finally I just couldn't put up with the moron any longer and suggested that if he turned the water pump the right direction he might get better results. :laughing: This is what you get when you buy on price alone.


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## Dmaz (Jan 11, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Someone needs to invent a toilet with a garbage disposal in the bowl :thumbsup:


Isn't that a macerating toilet?


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