# A question for my fellow Floridians on the law



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I've got a friend of a friend that is doing cell phone tower construction that does not have a Fl general contractors license. He has a general contractor pull permits on then the GC has him listed as a sub-contractor.

To my understanding there are lots of problems with this arrangement ( IE it's illegal).

1st. I believe that it's not legal to subcontract work to a subcontractor if that subcontractor is not a licensed contractor.

2nd. He isn't actually the subcontractor as he holds the prime contract with the land owner and bids the jobs himself. He receives payment directly from the land owner. He then pays a GC a small fee for pulling the permit and listing him as a sub on it.

Somehow he does hold GL insurance and is bonded and has work comp. How would he even obtain those in Fl without a contractor’s license?

Just to be clear, he is NOT being qualified by the GC. The GC just pulls the permits for him.

Is this legal? He swears that it is, but I'm fairly sure it isn't.

I’m going to post this on contractortalk.com as well


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> I've got a friend of a friend that is doing cell phone tower construction that does not have a Fl general contractors license. He has a general contractor pull permits on then the GC has him listed as a sub-contractor.
> 
> To my understanding there are lots of problems with this arrangement ( IE it's illegal).
> 
> ...


 Your friend cant write a contract for a job that he doesn't pull the permit for. His contract would not be valid. Sounds like this could end up in court quick with everyone losing but the land owner


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

How do you know the law in Florida themaster?


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Sounds to me like the good ole " license leasing" technique. :thumbdown:


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

In Virginia we can't write a contract for more than a $1000.00 if we don't have a license. So if your law is the same he is in violation the minute he signs he's name.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> How do you know the law in Florida themaster?


 A florida lawyer from P'cola:thumbsup:. As he said...everythings legal until a lawyer gets it into court:laughing: Then they all get the constipated looks on their face. Florida is also starting to confiscate the vehicles of people who hire prostitutes....for keeps!:laughing: So watch it protech...I would hate to see that box van on tv.:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I guess I shouldn't have responded because I'm not a Floridian. However I maybe shortly. I envy the "No state income tax" I dont have children so the state of alabama is raping me 4 times a year and their tool is getting bigger every year.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Protech said:


> I've got a friend of a friend that is doing cell phone tower construction that does not have a Fl general contractors license. He has a general contractor pull permits on then the GC has him listed as a sub-contractor.
> 
> To my understanding there are lots of problems with this arrangement ( IE it's illegal).
> 
> ...


100% illegal... the main thing I see that COULD surely cause a snag is who the check made out to. The checks and contract would have to be with the GC. The GC would then have to hire your friend who must also be licensed, insured, and registered with the county or municipality in his particular field of expertise to make that scenario legal. Otherwise it is merely just a paper game. The DBPR would have a field day with that one. 

Anyone can buy insurance... Insurance companies will gladly take your money year after year and when life goes wrong IE a screw up that falls back on your insurance, the insurance company can then say. "Hey buddy! you weren't licensed! CLAIM DENIED

When I started in business 10 years ago it was simply bathtub repairs at the begining and I was still able to carry the same liability I carry today holding CBC and CFC. I will verify with my wife (aka the boss) But I do not think our liability carrier has ever asked for a copy of licensing. They simply ask for description of services performed. I hope this helps, feel free to pm and I will try to remeber where in the Florida Contractors Manual the exact verbage is, it has been a couple of years since I took my building test.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Yep, thats what I said.



Proud Plumber said:


> 100% illegal... the main thing I see that COULD surely cause a snag is who the check made out to. The checks and contract would have to be with the GC. The GC would then have to hire your friend who must also be licensed, insured, and registered with the county or municipality in his particular field of expertise to make that scenario legal. Otherwise it is merely just a paper game. The DBPR would have a field day with that one.
> 
> Anyone can buy insurance... Insurance companies will gladly take your money year after year and when life goes wrong IE a screw up that falls back on your insurance, the insurance company can then say. "Hey buddy! you weren't licensed! CLAIM DENIED
> 
> When I started in business 10 years ago it was simply bathtub repairs at the begining and I was still able to carry the same liability I carry today holding CBC and CFC. I will verify with my wife (aka the boss) But I do not think our liability carrier has ever asked for a copy of licensing. They simply ask for description of services performed. I hope this helps, feel free to pm and I will try to remeber where in the Florida Contractors Manual the exact verbage is, it has been a couple of years since I took my building test.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Proud Plumber said:


> 100% illegal... the main thing I see that COULD surely cause a snag is who the check made out to. The checks and contract would have to be with the GC. The GC would then have to hire your friend who must also be licensed, insured, and registered with the county or municipality in his particular field of expertise to make that scenario legal. Otherwise it is merely just a paper game. The DBPR would have a field day with that one.
> 
> Anyone can buy insurance... Insurance companies will gladly take your money year after year and when life goes wrong IE a screw up that falls back on your insurance, the insurance company can then say. "Hey buddy! you weren't licensed! CLAIM DENIED


 The claim wouldn't be denied. The insurance company would pay the claim. Then they would drop you and sue you for the money back. If you didn't have G.L. insurance,then your bond would pay and then sue you for their money back. Bottom line is two partys cannot makie a contract invovling 3 party's unless all party's are aware 3 party's are entering into the contract.......and I'd say the guy buying the permit is in it atleast azz deep at this point since he's listed as the contractor whos doing the job as far as the state is concerned.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I bet your friend is an authorized agent of the contractor and is having the contractors contracts signed and not his own. The contractor may have authorized payment to be made through his sub-contractor. Now that would be legal. All party's are involved and on paper.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Here's what the fl chapter 489 says about it.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Nope. Thats not legal. The fact that he is bidding jobs, overseeing the contruction operations (not the GC) and accepting payment for said jobs is defined as contracting in FL. Further, it's not legal to subcontract work that requires a license to someone who doesn't have a license for that type of work.



TheMaster said:


> I bet your friend is an authorized agent of the contractor and is having the contractors contracts signed and not his own. The contractor may have authorized payment to be made through his sub-contractor. Now that would be legal. All party's are involved and on paper.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Here's what the fl chapter 489 says about it.


 It says thats exemptions for roads,bridges,etc,etc.....nothing about building cell phone towers


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Nope. Thats not legal. The fact that he is bidding jobs, overseeing the contruction operations (not the GC) and accepting payment for said jobs is defined as contracting in FL. Further, it's not legal to subcontract work that requires a license to someone who doesn't have a license for that type of work.


Why does your friend have a BOND......Whats the purpose of the BOND. The city requires a bond to get a business license......otherwise you dont need a bond you would just get G.L.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I bet your friend is an authorized agent of the contractor and is having the contractors contracts signed and not his own. The contractor may have authorized payment to be made through his sub-contractor. Now that would be legal. All party's are involved and on paper.


:no:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Nope. Thats not legal. The fact that he is bidding jobs, overseeing the contruction operations (not the GC) and accepting payment for said jobs is defined as contracting in FL. Further, it's not legal to subcontract work that requires a license to someone who doesn't have a license for that type of work.


 So then why are you asking the question. I told ya from the start its not legal. Any state in the country 3 people cant be party to a contract unless all 3 people are informed and given a copy of the contract. In your example the property owner is not aware who obtained the permit and no where is it legal for someone to do work without a license when one is required.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Proud Plumber said:


> :no:


 I guess direct tv is in big trouble then. They hire sub -contractors to install their systems daily. That would fall under low voltage wiring. Anybody knows if you must have a license then its not legal to work without a license.....no matter who buys the permit...for Gods sake


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> I've got a friend of a friend that is doing cell phone tower construction that does not have a Fl general contractors license. He has a general contractor pull permits on then the GC has him listed as a sub-contractor.
> 
> To my understanding there are lots of problems with this arrangement ( IE it's illegal).
> 
> ...


 How can the GC list him as a sub-contractor if he doesn't have a business license? That sounds screwball from the start:yes: I bet your friend has a business license and since the GC is listing him and thats why your friend has the bond. However it would still be illegal because hes writing contracts in his name instead of the contractors name and getting paid. That arrangment mankes the sub the general and the general the sub in my opinion.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You don't need a license to run cable or phone. It's considered telecommunications and is exempt. 



TheMaster said:


> I guess direct tv is in big trouble then. They hire sub -contractors to install their systems daily. That would fall under low voltage wiring. Anybody knows if you must have a license then its not legal to work without a license.....no matter who buys the permit...for Gods sake


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> You don't need a license to run cable or phone. It's considered telecommunications and is exempt.


 wtf? u serious?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

He has a business license, just not a contractor’s license. Big difference.



TheMaster said:


> How can the GC list him as a sub-contractor if he doesn't have a business license? That sounds screwball from the start:yes: I bet your friend has a business license and since the GC is listing him and thats why your friend has the bond. However it would still be illegal because hes writing contracts in his name instead of the contractors name and getting paid. That arrangment mankes the sub the general and the general the sub in my opinion.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Dead serious. Would you like me to show you the statute?



TheMaster said:


> wtf? u serious?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

*489.503 *(14)(a)

(14)(a) The installation of, repair of, alteration of, addition to, or design of electrical wiring, fixtures, appliances, thermostats, apparatus, raceways, and conduit, or any part thereof, when those items are for the purpose of transmitting data, voice communications, or commands as part of a cable television, community antenna television, or radio distribution system. The scope of this exemption is limited to electrical circuits and equipment governed by the applicable provisions of Articles 725 (Classes 2 and 3 circuits only), 770, 800, 810, and 820 of the National Electrical Code, current edition, or 47 C.F.R. part 68.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Dead serious. Would you like me to show you the statute?


Yes a hard copy please:laughing: Please mark the envelope "Do Not bend":laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Cable, satellite and phones companies have lots of money to pay lobbyists......


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