# Are we all becoming mommas boys



## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

I once worked with an old school guy who gave me hell for asking directions and navigated me home via the position of the sun (No BS), Called every apprentice in the shop "Plastic Babies" and had forearms like Popeye!! He was a plumbing purist. I can still remember the day he broke out his wooden tool box which weighted 75 lbs and showed us some cast iron tools none of us had ever seen. These days it seems that technology is always "improving". The tools get lighter & easier to handle, while the systems get less labor intensive & easier to install. Hell, a homeowner can now go into a box store and buy CSST.(which is the dumbest f thing ever). So here is the question. Are rolling tool bags, propress guns and shark bite fittings ruining our trade, or is this just "progress". :bangin:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Technology is implemented to accomplish a few things. First, the main driver is to make manufacturers of said products money. Second, is to help workers be more productive for a longer period of time. It does nobody any good to work you arse off for twenty years only to end up crippled and collecting a disability check for 40 years. So technology and techniques improve to make it easier and better for people to make money. Technology for workers is called Ergonomics.

I forgot to add to my thought that much technology is developed with the idea of minimizing lawsuits.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Get a Gorlitz GO68HD. Remove the cable feed. Push and pull cable manually.


Problem solved.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

It all comes down to money. Labor being the biggest cost on a job they want to minimize the labor. The way you minimize labor is making things easier to install. I do believe the box store, and youtube will be the downfall of all the trades. Everyone feels they can get what they need, watch a video how to and do it themselves and save a bunch of money.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Those people will and have always been there. I see stuff all the time that was jack legged in several years ago and worked for a long time. Not right to any of our standards but worked never the less. 
As material and tools change the vast majority will still prefer to not tackle plumbing issues. Those are our customers. Always have been and hopefully always will be. 
Look at the twenty five and younger generation. They have grown up playing video games and watching 200 channels of tv. They for the most part don't care for the physical aspects of life such as plumbing. 
Most of us grew up playing in the mud, building bicycles to have something to ride and push mowed our lawns. 
Times have definitely changed and will continue to do so. I believe the next twenty years will be busy for plumbing service as well as new construction. 
One of the phrases that have burned into my memory was stated by Mr Greer and is a fact of life in our industry. The phrase " EVOLVE OR DIE"


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

ChrisConnor said:


> Get a Gorlitz GO68HD. Remove the cable feed. Push and pull cable manually.
> 
> 
> Problem solved.


Thats how Popeye got to be so manly. :laughing:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Yes you are all a bunch of mommas boys.

Mark


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

No, I don't think so. Now if you will excuse me I'm late for my manicure :laughing:


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

I would agree that the business side of our industry dictates "More production = More $$$ which is typically true. At least until the producer of the materials which reduces labor realizes the savings and substantially marks up their product to even out . Victaulic, Propress, and Sharkbite for example. Let me also add that I am not knocking any of these, in fact I use Propress and Victaulic religiously. I can definitely support a product that is time tested and represents "working smarter and not harder" however this simply does not always translate into a huge cost savings.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

It may not translate into a huge cost savings but it will save time which will allow more production which is more opportunity for other jobs which makes you more money. Money makes the world go round. Its all about profit.


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

ChrisConnor said:


> Get a Gorlitz GO68HD. Remove the cable feed. Push and pull cable manually.
> 
> 
> Problem solved.


Very true and No thank You!! 
On this subject Snaking is not in my typical day to day but I looked up the Gorlitz line and was curious if the smaller models like the GO 380A are reliable. I have been looking for some small drum machines to replace the K-50's that are on our service trucks and am not familiar with this brand. Thx


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> I would agree that the business side of our industry dictates "More production = More $$$ which is typically true. At least until the producer of the materials which reduces labor realizes the savings and substantially marks up their product to even out . Victaulic, Propress, and Sharkbite for example. Let me also add that I am not knocking any of these, in fact I use Propress and Victaulic religiously. I can definitely support a product that is time tested and represents "working smarter and not harder" however this simply does not always translate into a huge cost savings.


Or, faster and cheaper lead to the NEED for more production :thumbsup:


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

dclarke said:


> It may not translate into a huge cost savings but it will save time which will allow more production which is more opportunity for other jobs which makes you more money. Money makes the world go round. Its all about profit.


Great Point!!! Time is Money


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> Very true and No thank You!!
> On this subject Snaking is not in my typical day to day but I looked up the Gorlitz line and was curious if the smaller models like the GO 380A are reliable. I have been looking for some small drum machines to replace the K-50's that are on our service trucks and am not familiar with this brand. Thx


If your replacing em what are you doing with the old k-50s ?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> Very true and No thank You!!
> On this subject Snaking is not in my typical day to day but I looked up the Gorlitz line and was curious if the smaller models like the GO 380A are reliable. I have been looking for some small drum machines to replace the K-50's that are on our service trucks and am not familiar with this brand. Thx


Very reliable. Mine is eleven years old. It's had the drum replaced because it rusted out and the forward/reverse switch replaced.


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

dclarke said:


> If your replacing em what are you doing with the old k-50s ?


They will go to our drain dept who will squeeze the life out of them. My division does commercial contract / service which is usually just local stoppages. I have been discussing switching to drum machines with our Co. V.P as I think it would be a better fit for our needs.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Since we bought K60's nobody wants to use the drum machines anymore


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

Indie said:


> Technology is implemented to accomplish a few things. First, the main driver is to make manufacturers of said products money. Second, is to help workers be more productive for a longer period of time. It does nobody any good to work you arse off for twenty years only to end up crippled and collecting a disability check for 40 years. So technology and techniques improve to make it easier and better for people to make money. Technology for workers is called Ergonomics.
> 
> I forgot to add to my thought that much technology is developed with the idea of minimizing lawsuits.


A wise person once said, "Laziness is the mother of invention. "



AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Thats how Popeye got to be so manly. :laughing:


No, he got manly by eating spinach...

All those years of cartoons and you never caught on???


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I have seen a lot of cast iron soil pipe and galvo dwv that was hacked in. That stuff was such a pita to work with, that if a measurement was off, tough. They made it fit. Outdated, back-breakingly heavy and carpal tunnel causing doesn't make it better.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Cast iron while quiet, likes to rust then split along he seam.

Rolling tool bag? Haven't seen one I would bother with.

Sharkbites? I have less than 5 scenarios I would consider using one.

Propress? Hell yes. Tankless water heater and water treatment installs come to mind.

I like soldering pipe, but it's nice having other options for a heavier workload.


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

If laziness is the mother, necessity is the father of invention. 

I've had a few guys comment in how heavy the propress case is, loaded up with jaws. 

No mommas boys here. 

There's still ground rough in to clean out the boys from among the men.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

lol....

Yesterday, I was shrugging 275, curling 135, dead lifting 250. Sunday, I will go heavy.

My blood pressure is 130/80 with a pulse of 60 And I am old.

That said, I worked my butt off doing manual labor all my life. Would I do it again? Hell, no.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

If everyone getting lazy.. why there a power assited thread mill machine in almost every customer's home?


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## JHITT (Feb 27, 2013)

Again, my two cents: the first thing I teach is dwv. I seldom teach proper install of clay tile or lead drain lines. Old school or old code? I don't spend much time on cast iron installs either. Just demo. I, for one, am glad not to be mixing mortar or heating lead to plumb dwv. When it comes to water lines, I still install soft copper supply lines from the meter sometimes. Mostly on small residential jobs where I only need 70 feet of 3/4. The rest is usually PE. Speaking of which, who here uses the CTS instead of the IPS in the PE supply lines. Talk about DIY friendly! Anyhow, these home owners can't claim the improvements with no permit or inspection to back it up. That can come back to haunt them when they try to sell the home. Here it is up to code or it lists as "as is". Track hoes make us momma's boys too, I guess. So does mapp gas, aluminum pipe wrenches, bi-metal hacksaw blades, cordless tools, generators,...etc. The trade HAS gotten easier. More complicated, more code, more rules to follow, more techniques to learn, more stress to deal with, more money to put out, .....but easier labor wise. We also make way more money per job than the old timers did. Many, many home owners still demand copper in their homes. Many want PEX. But either way, they would be crazy to attempt it themselves. They are real confident until the drywall starts to go up, then they get a lump in their throats and serious acid in their stomachs. They eventually call. Our jobs are safe, the trade is stable. These cats that are all DIY, make me more money than they cost me. Water lines for home owners are easy, let them do dwv up to code...bahhahah. Good luck.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> If everyone getting lazy.. why there a power assited thread mill machine in almost every customer's home?


What this thing?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Plumber said:


> lol....
> 
> *Yesterday, I was shrugging 275, curling 135, dead lifting 250*. Sunday, I will go heavy.
> 
> ...


 






That's it? 

My brother-in-law can deadlift 250, he does it everytime he gets up off the sofa......:laughing:


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

JHITT said:


> Speaking of which, who here uses the CTS instead of the IPS in the PE supply lines.


In our city the tailpiece off the meter is always 1" CTS but we and everyone I know transitions to IPS at that point, I used to run CTS all the way but I don't like to anymore. What is more DIY friendly about CTS over IPS?


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## JHITT (Feb 27, 2013)

I spent enough years working with Popeye, and some real tough men. If you even thought about gloves, eye protection, water proof or steel toe boots, laying down plastic, warm clothes, toilet paper, food, water, ...etc. they would laugh you off the job. They lit their cigarettes off the torch, drove the nail with one strike, and killed a six pack before noon. I redo their work all the time. The trade has gone from being tough enough to being skilled enough. There are a few "old timers" that are the exception, and their work is impeccable. They never miss a wall, their sweat jobs are perfect, and they seldom complain about a damn thing. They can also spot junk tools a mile away, and they are usually right. My track hoes keep three men a piece from earning an honest days work with a shovel. My pro presses keep damn good copper men from logging extra hours on the job and my newhires from learning how to sweat larger diameter fittings. It's a trade off. I have more profit, can give hire wages, and bonuses come in on time now, but there IS something being lost in the trade. It's the old school "guild" kind of thing I see us losing. But as you say, we have to evolve.


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## JHITT (Feb 27, 2013)

SewerRat said:


> In our city the tailpiece off the meter is always 1" CTS but we and everyone I know transitions to IPS at that point, I used to run CTS all the way but I don't like to anymore. What is more DIY friendly about CTS over IPS?


For them? Just slapping on a push fitting and tying in. I think they might shy away from compression adapters or hose clamps on barbed fittings. Anything they can Lowes or Home Depot together is going to appeal to them.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

JHITT said:


> For them? Just slapping on a push fitting and tying in. I think they might shy away from compression adapters or hose clamps on barbed fittings. Anything they can Lowes or Home Depot together is going to appeal to them.


Yes, have you seen those little white PVC CTS X MIP adapters? Or the new universal size plastic adapters?

There is a DIY solution for any type of pipe.


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> That's it?
> 
> My brother-in-law can deadlift 250, he does it everytime he gets up off the sofa......:laughing:


 i got one of those brother in laws. e's been getting a job for 25 years.


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## JHITT (Feb 27, 2013)

SewerRat said:


> Yes, have you seen those little white PVC CTS X MIP adapters? Or the new universal size plastic adapters?
> 
> There is a DIY solution for any type of pipe.


I used one like the black one to hook up my little watering layout for my tomatoes last summer. Took it apart when I mowed. I like a bunch of the things they make for sell at these stores. I use them all the time on my farm and on little things like running a hose to my sink beside the BBQ grill. I just wish that pro plumbers would stay true to the trade and not use the DIY stuff unless we had to. Like as a temp fix till Monday or what not. If we all had unlimited free shark bites, should we use them? Many places I would. Male adapters for sure. Especially on jet pumps and special applications.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> Get a Gorlitz GO68HD. Remove the cable feed. Push and pull cable manually.
> 
> 
> Problem solved.


who would be dumb enough to work so hard when the job can be done easier just by

*Get a power feed and set on a bucket the way a real smart plumber or drain man would run a drain !**[/COLOR]*[/COLOR] :laughing:


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

JK949 said:


> Cast iron while quiet, likes to rust then split along he seam.
> 
> Rolling tool bag? Haven't seen one I would bother with.
> 
> ...


The reason I had mentioned rolling tool bag(s) is because I am now sworn to them. We work in DC where you sometimes have to park blocks from the job. I picked this up around Christmas and will never look back. It would probably be more of a hindrance for residential work but when the handle is extended I can strap a K-50, spool of cable, B-tank and or whatever else the job calls for. Its like an apprentice only cheaper.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> The reason I had mentioned rolling tool bag(s) is because I am now sworn to them. We work in DC where you sometimes have to park blocks from the job. I picked this up around Christmas and will never look back. It would probably be more of a hindrance for residential work but when the handle is extended I can strap a K-50, spool of cable, B-tank and or whatever else the job calls for. Its like an apprentice only cheaper.
> 
> 
> View attachment 25719


I thought that was what you were referring to. The red/black Husky bags just isn't do it fr me. Th pockets tear too easily. The all black bags tickle my fancy.


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

^^ if the bag does not say dewalt it does not make it on my truck^^


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

:jester:If something says DeWalt on it, it doesn't make it on my truck.

Not busting your chops, but I just don't get the longevity out of DeWalt tools that I would like.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

phishfood said:


> :jester:If something says DeWalt on it, it doesn't make it on my truck.
> 
> Not busting your chops, but I just don't get the longevity out of DeWalt tools that I would like.


 You mean DeFault? The old phrase "Fool me once: shame on you, fool me twice: shame on me" applies to those, at least if it has a motor.


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