# putty ring to set toilet



## 422 plumber

This is for those plumbers who haven't used putty instead of wax. It's quite simple.


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## KCplumber

Are you like a 100 years old or what? I know Chicago is backward, with all the lead & oakum & copper dwv, but come on man:jester:


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## 422 plumber

My kneels feel like it. But the main reason I use it, is because wax rings fall into some styles of the cast iron flanges.


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## KCplumber

Just teasing ya, thought I could get a better rise out of you


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## 422 plumber

Yeah baby, yeah, just trying to get a rise out of you. 
With apologies to Austin Powers


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## rjbphd

Can't use the proven method of rubber gasket??


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## SewerRatz

rjbphd said:


> Can't use the proven method of rubber gasket??


Putty was a proven method long before wax and rubber gaskets.

One other thing I was told to do was before making the putty ring is to set the bowl in place and trace around the bowl with a pencil. Left the bowl, and make a putty bead along the trace marks.


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## theplumbinator

No comment.


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## LEAD INGOT

I know putty will hold. I've pulled some 100 year old, puttied toilets. It set up so tight over the years that the horn of the toilet snapped when pulled and stayed with the collar.


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## rjbphd

SewerRatz said:


> Putty was a proven method long before wax and rubber gaskets.
> 
> One other thing I was told to do was before making the putty ring is to set the bowl in place and trace around the bowl with a pencil. Left the bowl, and make a putty bead along the trace marks.


Maybe we shud call ya, 'the Putty Plumber'.. nice wax ring to it.. lol


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## suzie

I've never used putty either but I have pulled more toilets in the past two months that were set with putty then in sixteen years. Each of them like run said had a bead of putty also around the perimeter just inside the bowl


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## phishfood

Were any of the putty rings leaking?


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## vinpadalino

Neat little trick.


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## suzie

phishfood said:


> Were any of the putty rings leaking?


Yes


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## 422 plumber

Has anyone ran across leaking wax rings? Or are they guaranteed not to leak? LOL


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## MTDUNN

SewerRatz said:


> Putty was a proven method long before wax and rubber gaskets.
> 
> One other thing I was told to do was before making the putty ring is to set the bowl in place and trace around the bowl with a pencil. Left the bowl, and make a putty bead along the trace marks.


I pulled or tried to pull a toilet that was caulked with PL400. I busted it out of the tile floor. We had to re-tile that section of floor and install a new toilet


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## mssp

I did that on a house a few years ago. My old master showed me that and made me set one while working with him. He told me this will get me out of a pinch some day. Low and behold On a job and forgot wax rings, had a brand new tub of putty...... Worked great!


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## PLUMBER_BILL

mssp said:


> I did that on a house a few years ago. My old master showed me that and made me set one while working with him. He told me this will get me out of a pinch some day. Low and behold On a job and forgot wax rings, had a brand new tub of putty...... Worked great!


 *********************************************

*Lets back up 50 some years, before wax rings, KantLeaks -- ect. putty was the norm, but the horns on a toilet were about 3 times longer than they are now. Putty could block the horn on the newer toilets. Be very cautious about this. On the longer horns of years ago that rarely happened.*


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## theplumbinator

If someone gets crazy with a plunger I could see the putty ring failing. Wax isn't going anywhere once its stuck to toilet base and flange.


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## SewerRatz

theplumbinator said:


> If someone gets crazy with a plunger I could see the putty ring failing. Wax isn't going anywhere once its stuck to toilet base and flange.


That statement is so false, I have had to reset hundreds of water closets with a blown out wax ring due to over zealous plunging.

In all the years I been doing this work, all my calls for water closets leaking at the base has been one of two things wax seal went bad, or a cracked flange/closer ell. Not once did I come upon a leaking water closet that had a putty seal.


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## theplumbinator

SewerRatz said:


> That statement is so false, I have had to reset hundreds of water closets with a blown out wax ring due to over zealous plunging.
> 
> In all the years I been doing this work, all my calls for water closets leaking at the base has been one of two things wax seal went bad, or a cracked flange/closer ell. Not once did I come upon a leaking water closet that had a putty seal.


Ive never come across a leaky putty ring used as an alternative to wax or neoprene gasket either. Because ive never pulled a toilet that anyone used putty on. Except around the base to seal it to tile before phenoseal existed. And I've pulled hundreds of toilets. Thats why the first time I heard you guys talking about using plumbers putty instead of wax I was like WTF? All the other plumbers I've ever worked with, while in the union and outside the union. All the years of school during apprenticeship. Every plumbing text book, never once heard of anyone using putty for this application. On the other hand I've never done any plumbing work outside of NJ, except roughing a 2 bath addition on my brother's house in RI. So I guess that's how toilets are set everywhere else but here IDK? Still sounds crazy to me to make a ring of putty to set a toilet when the foam rubber gaskets are cheap, easy, don't make a mess, faster, and work just fine for years. While you were there rolling out putty to make a ring, I would be cutting the bolts off of my set toilet and on to the next one. Time is money. What you think is better or what I think is better is an opinion. But more money in our pockets is everyones opinion...


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## SewerRatz

The plumber that sponsored me for my apprenticeship was an old timer union plumber. This guy was building homes and buildings since the early 1950's. 

First water closet job I asked where is the wax rings. He told me if he ever saw a wax ring on the truck he would beat me with a 24" pipe wrench. Granted at his age he could barely lift a 24. 

It was the way I was taught, I have used other types of water closet seals, over the years and found putty is the best for setting floor mount water closet. For wall hung I like the Zurn gaskets.


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## theplumbinator

The first plumber I worked for was 65 when I started in the late 90's first toilet I ever set he handed me a wax ring. His license number was 3 digits. The only time he put a tub of putty in my hand was to install a sink strainer or a lav sink pop-up occasionally under a faucet if it wasn't set on stone. Its worked fine for me all these years I'm not reverting to the way things were done in the 1950's now. Would you throw your microwave out the window? Or replace your refrigerator with an ice box? Maybe I should start wrapping boilers and steam pipes in asbestos too. I will start using putty when you give up your hole hog for a hand powered drill, hand saw, and hammer/chisel to rough a house. Just because that's how they used to do it in the 1950's also. Sound crazy right? So does setting a toilet with plumbers putty to me bro.


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## RealLivePlumber

theplumbinator said:


> The first plumber I worked for was 65 when I started in the late 90's first toilet I ever set he handed me a wax ring. His license number was 3 digits. The only time he put a tub of putty in my hand was to install a sink strainer or a lav sink pop-up occasionally under a faucet if it wasn't set on stone. Its worked fine for me all these years I'm not reverting to the way things were done in the 1950's now. Would you throw your microwave out the window? Or replace your refrigerator with an ice box? Maybe I should start wrapping boilers and steam pipes in asbestos too. I will start using putty when you give up your hole hog for a hand powered drill, hand saw, and hammer/chisel to rough a house. Just because that's how they used to do it in the 1950's also. Sound crazy right? So does setting a toilet with plumbers putty to me bro.


Don't knock it till you've tried it.


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## SewerRatz

I do use a hand saw, I believe in running hubbed cast iron with oakum and lead. I like to stay with tried and true ways. That is because I like to provide my customers quality workmanship and materials.


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## suzie

SewerRatz said:


> Putty was a proven method long before wax and rubber gaskets.
> 
> One other thing I was told to do was before making the putty ring is to set the bowl in place and trace around the bowl with a pencil. Left the bowl, and make a putty bead along the trace marks.


Thanks


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## matkg

had a toilet in a mall today cast iron flange was to large for a wax ring ( ring would fall into the pipe) I was taught by my dad to use putty but I tried the extra heavy wax ring and guess what? It didn't work 3 pounds of putty and it was good to go old school here because it works


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## theplumbinator

SewerRatz said:


> I do use a hand saw, I believe in running hubbed cast iron with oakum and lead. I like to stay with tried and true ways. That is because I like to provide my customers quality workmanship and materials.


You cut cast iron with a hand saw? Your a better man than me... I meant to notch out framework, In order to run your pipes like they used to do. That would match up nicely with setting toilets like the used to do 50 years ago. Not hand saw to cut PVC we all do that once in a while. Doubt notching framework would pass inspection these days, but just tell the inspector your old school. He should understand.


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## SewerRatz

theplumbinator said:


> You cut cast iron with a hand saw? Your a better man than me... I meant to notch out framework, In order to run your pipes like they used to do. That would match up nicely with setting toilets like the used to do 50 years ago. Not hand saw to cut PVC we all do that once in a while. Doubt notching framework would pass inspection these days, but just tell the inspector your old school. He should understand.


I been in many homes that are over 50 years old that has holes drilled through the frame work. I guess in your area, all your plumbers must of been handy hacks if they were notching the frame work. 

So ThePlumbinator, are you related to a guy that went by the name TheMaster?


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## theplumbinator

SewerRatz said:


> I been in many homes that are over 50 years old that has holes drilled through the frame work. I guess in your area, all your plumbers must of been handy hacks if they were notching the frame work.
> 
> So ThePlumbinator, are you related to a guy that went by the name TheMaster?


Not me. 

We have houses here built before indoor plumbing. NJ is one of the original 13 colonys. Ive been in plenty of old places that the guys pretty much cut out all but 2" of a 2x8 to run a pipe through. And the 1950's began 60 years ago FYI. By the mid to late 60's most guys had power drills. All im saying is get with the Times man. Im not telling you to start using pex or cpvc instead of copper. You like using hubed cast, nothing wrong with that if you've got the time to put it in and the customer willing to pay for it. I personally love to install cast & copper waste. I always use no hub. But I don't look down on lead and oakum. I do however look down on galvanized waste, same as I look down on putty rings under toilets. There are better ways these days to do things is all im trying to convey here. Not put you down personally for using methods you were taught. As long as your not setting toilets in my house im cool with it. But you wont find me doing what you do on a job. Simple difference of opinion.


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## suzie

422 plumber said:


> This is for those plumbers who haven't used putty instead of wax. It's quite simple.


Nice job and you'd be great at making your own ravioli pies


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## 422 plumber

suzie said:


> Nice job and you'd be great at making your own ravioli pies


Thanks, we don't make our own raviolis, but we do make our sausage and salami.


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## PLUMBER_BILL

theplumbinator said:


> Not me.
> 
> We have houses here built before indoor plumbing. NJ is one of the original 13 colonys. <snip>
> 
> *Setting on putty [yes] What about a lead bend no flange, just a rolled over lip. How did you handle that with a gasket or a wax ring. The closet was set with closet screws -- usually 4 of them, Brass flanges came later when new floors were put in and the peened over lead would break when it was disturbed. As the tounge & groove flooring was usually cut with a compass saw there sometimes was no wood to anchor a flange to. Putty was the answer as too much pressure on the newly installed bolts could break the wipe joint on a bend. Hell I even mixed putty and pipe dope to make it sticky. Anybody ever set on plaster of paris? *


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## theplumbinator

Plaster of Paris I use still today. Keep it in the van just incase. Sometimes its the only thing that will work on a really messed up floor. Its still approved by code here if you choose to use it. Ive never tried to use it on a flange. But it works great on the toilet base.


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## smoldrn

I keep plaster of paris on the truck,too. That's the way I was taught to secure the base on a rocking toilet on concrete.


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## 422 plumber

theplumbinator said:


> The first plumber I worked for was 65 when I started in the late 90's first toilet I ever set he handed me a wax ring. His license number was 3 digits. The only time he put a tub of putty in my hand was to install a sink strainer or a lav sink pop-up occasionally under a faucet if it wasn't set on stone. Its worked fine for me all these years I'm not reverting to the way things were done in the 1950's now. Would you throw your microwave out the window? Or replace your refrigerator with an ice box? Maybe I should start wrapping boilers and steam pipes in asbestos too. I will start using putty when you give up your hole hog for a hand powered drill, hand saw, and hammer/chisel to rough a house. Just because that's how they used to do it in the 1950's also. Sound crazy right? So does setting a toilet with plumbers putty to me bro.


Yet plaster of paris is okay with you? Don't you know they used that stuff back in the 19th century? You slag SR for using stuff from the 50's, at least his stuff is the 1950's! Get in the 21st century! :jester:


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## theplumbinator

422 plumber said:


> Yet plaster of paris is okay with you? Don't you know they used that stuff back in the 19th century? You slag SR for using stuff from the 50's, at least his stuff is the 1950's! Get in the 21st century! :jester:


Yes im ok with plaster of Paris. I don't use it every day. Most of the time I use phenoseal, but on occasion if the floor is severely uneven Im ok with it. Im ok with you guys using Play-Doh instead of wax also. But I wont because I know there are better methods ie: Zurn gasket, wax ring. When someone comes up with something better than plaster of Paris for a floor on a 30 deg angle I will gladly switch to the more modern method if its any better. If my choices are un even toilet, or a 100 year old method of setting toilet level. That's still approved by the code, I would be a hack if I didn't use it. Just saying.


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## 422 plumber

It's not play-doh! Putty isn't near as salty, and it's low in trans fats.


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## theplumbinator

422 plumber said:


> It's not play-doh! Putty isn't near as salty, and it's low in trans fats.


I wouldn't know never tried putty as a snack. I have however ate Play-Doh as a kid. As im pretty sure every kid has. And your right it is salty. Also hardens way quicker than plumbers putty. The Play-Doh comment was just me being a douche...


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## KCPlumb

The young guys at the supply house laugh at me for using putty on toilets, faucets, pop-ups, tub waste and overflows and just about everything else that needs a compression seal.


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## northplm

KCPlumb said:


> The young guys at the supply house laugh at me for using putty on toilets, faucets, pop-ups, tub waste and overflows and just about everything else that needs a compression seal.


I’ve slowly come around to silicone for some applications, the big thing that did it for me was all the cheap plastic pop up lav drains and plastic kitchen sink baskets. I always hated using putty on that, especially in the winter, you always felt you would crack the plastic before you ever made a watertight seal. Since switching to silicone on plastic drains I’ve had much better results. Also if you notice Watco and I think a few other tub waste/overflow manufacturers state that putty will actually void the warranty. Maybe it’s fiberglass tub manufacturers, I forget which. Once I showed up to a leaking tub drain, spun the old brass drain piece out of the shoe and discovered the hole in the cast iron tub was completely rusted out. So much of the tub had rusted out that the jagged, rusty hole was only about 1/4” smaller than the new brass drain piece, at most. I fibbed silicone on that thing, tightened it hard, told the guy to wait 24 hours, and when I came back to do the water heater 3 months later he told me it hadn’t leaked a bit. That really sold me on silicone as an alternative to putty.


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## skoronesa

KCPlumb said:


> The young guys at the supply house laugh at me for using putty on toilets...........



You use putty on a toilet flange? Or do you just mean around the skirt for large gaps?

Around here no one's used putty for a flange seal since before the war. I have used putty under a toilet skirt when the gap is big so my silicone has a backer.


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## KCPlumb

northplm said:


> I’ve slowly come around to silicone for some applications, the big thing that did it for me was all the cheap plastic pop up lav drains and plastic kitchen sink baskets. I always hated using putty on that, especially in the winter, you always felt you would crack the plastic before you ever made a watertight seal. Since switching to silicone on plastic drains I’ve had much better results. Also if you notice Watco and I think a few other tub waste/overflow manufacturers state that putty will actually void the warranty. Maybe it’s fiberglass tub manufacturers, I forget which. Once I showed up to a leaking tub drain, spun the old brass drain piece out of the shoe and discovered the hole in the cast iron tub was completely rusted out. So much of the tub had rusted out that the jagged, rusty hole was only about 1/4” smaller than the new brass drain piece, at most. I fibbed silicone on that thing, tightened it hard, told the guy to wait 24 hours, and when I came back to do the water heater 3 months later he told me it hadn’t leaked a bit. That really sold me on silicone as an alternative to putty.


I dislike the plastic strainers and have also used silicone on those parts. Brass and stainless is usually what I install unless the customer has the plastic parts which I don't warranty.


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## KCPlumb

skoronesa said:


> You use putty on a toilet flange? Or do you just mean around the skirt for large gaps?
> 
> Around here no one's used putty for a flange seal since before the war. I have used putty under a toilet skirt when the gap is big so my silicone has a backer.


If it is an oddball repair/installation like an offset flange or a 4" brass flange I'll use putty. Though most installs where the flange is set on the finished floor I'll use wax. If the flange is below the finished floor and the customer doesn't want to pay to raise the flange I'll use putty. I always run into tile floors where the tile installers remove and install the toilets. And the toilet flange is either flush or below the finished floor. In some of these situations I can use a repair flange to raise the height if the customer wants to pay for it, most times they do, sometimes they don't. Putty works really well in some installations, gotta knead the piss out of it though.


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## skoronesa

KCPlumb said:


> If it is an oddball repair/installation like an offset flange or a 4" brass flange I'll use putty. Though most installs where the flange is set on the finished floor I'll use wax. If the flange is below the finished floor and the customer doesn't want to pay to raise the flange I'll use putty. I always run into tile floors where the tile installers remove and install the toilets. And the toilet flange is either flush or below the finished floor. In some of these situations I can use a repair flange to raise the height if the customer wants to pay for it, most times they do, sometimes they don't. Putty works really well in some installations, gotta knead the piss out of it though.


If the flange isn't too far low I will stack a horned ring on top of a regular ring. I guess putty is fine for a flange seal, just more expensive and time consuming.

What do you use for longer bolts? I cut the heads off a couple tank bolt and use the T nuts from a pair of set-fast bolts.

I don't like the repair riser rings, they rarely fit well together and are often Polyethylene which is impossible to glue/caulk. The pvc rings are usually warped. If it's a plastic 4" flange on the outside of a 4" pipe you can glue a 3" flange on the inside. 

I keep Sioux Chief TKO 4x3 stainless flanges on the van. They glue inside 4" or outside 3".











Left to right;
Joni-Bolt, XL Joni-Bolt, Set-Fast Bolt, Set-Fast T-nut with Cut-off WB Tank Bolt, WB Tank Bolt


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## KCPlumb

I’ve used very similar bolts as in your photo, though on a new install I’ll use the nylon flange bolts. Never had a set of those nylon bolts fail yet. And those Sioux Chief stainless flanges work well. Sometimes it depends on the job how I attack the repair.


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