# psi's relationship to pounds of force



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm going to set up a test piece with a sweat cap on one end, and a Propress cap on the other, and see which end fails(maybe neither) in freezing conditions. I will post before and after pics...:thumbsup:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Before


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Experiment over..Propress cap pushed off. Sweat cap intact...


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

There has to be somethuing wrong, I've been told that Pro Press is the greatest thing to happen to plumbing since PVC.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> There has to be somethuing wrong, I've been told that Pro Press is the greatest thing to happen to plumbing since PVC.


 Propress is nothing more than a sharkbite with a 3,000 tool you install it with.:jester:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Airgap said:


> Experiment over..Propress cap pushed off. Sweat cap intact...
> 
> View attachment 4306


 Your test is flawed. The sweated cap was what 3/4" and the propress is 1/2"? Why not do both in 1/2" or both in 3/4".


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> Your test is flawed. The sweated cap was what 3/4" and the propress is 1/2"? Why not do both in 1/2" or both in 3/4".


 It wouldn't make any difference. pressure is pressure.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> It wouldn't make any difference. pressure is pressure.


Wrong. pressure is calculated in pounds per square inch. 3/4" has more surface area then 1/2" 

But, the 3/4" also has more bonding area in the joint...

I'm too lazy to do the math.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Wrong. pressure is calculated in pounds per square inch. 3/4" has more surface area then 1/2"
> 
> But, the 3/4" also has more bonding area in the joint...
> 
> I'm too lazy to do the math.


So your saying the 1/2" copper in my house has more psi than the 3/4" pipe even tho my gauge reads 75 psi at the hose faucet? Get your calculator out and explain that one to me.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Why is the pressure rating for large pipe less than smaller pipe.....say a solder joint made with 95-5 on a 1/2" joint is 500psi at 100 degrees....ok now a 3" joint made with 95-5 is 300 psi at 100 degrees. 3/4 and 1/2" have the same pressure rating.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Airgap said:


> I'm going to set up a test piece with a sweat cap on one end, and a Propress cap on the other, and see which end fails(maybe neither) in freezing conditions. I will post before and after pics...:thumbsup:


Would you mind doing a test of propress vs sharkbites? Thanks.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I can already tell you what pex and copper test will do. The pex will swell up and the copper will split. The copper cap will not blow off. I've done that one several times in my freezer.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Your test is flawed. The sweated cap was what 3/4" and the propress is 1/2"? Why not do both in 1/2" or both in 3/4".


Ron, I have to admit I couldn't find a 1/2" sweat, and I didn't feel like going to get one.... I will re-do the test with 2-1/2's...


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> So your saying the 1/2" copper in my house has more psi than the 3/4" pipe even tho my gauge reads 75 psi at the hose faucet? Get your calculator out and explain that one to me.


 
Calculate the square inches of the end of a 3/4" cap.

Calculate the square inches of the end of a 1/2" cap.

Water pressure is figured in pounds per square inch. Take the psi x square inches you calculated. That is the pounds of pressure on the end of each cap.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Perhaps this info should be a part of this topic.

http://www.all-spec.com/downloads/kester/KBLF405_092408s.pdf

Scroll down on this (above) PDF until you get to the strength portion.

And those using the system should read this info.

http://www.viega.net/cps/rde/xbcr/en-us/FAQ-PP-0908.pdf

Do not allow to freeze ?
Test pressures ?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Calculate the square inches of the end of a 3/4" cap.
> 
> Calculate the square inches of the end of a 1/2" cap.
> 
> Water pressure is figured in pounds per square inch. Take the psi x square inches you calculated. That is the pounds of pressure on the end of each cap.


 The test that was done was conducted with all the pipes put together. The pressure will not LOAD up on one end of the pipe...it is equal throughout the entire area of the pipe. Thats why pressure gauge would read the same if you put one on a 1/2" end and then one on the 3/4' end.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I say crimp a 3/4 propress on and then sweat a 1/2 cap on and freeze it. I'm sayin the propress will fail everytime. Its simply the weakest link in the chain.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Here is the thing, we as plumbers are supposed to install our plumbing so it will not freeze. So if we do our jobs right, the only way it will freeze is if they loose heat to the home, or something got changed after our install that causes a draft where the plumbing is.

In either case no matter what product you use Propress or sweat, if it freezes it will cause water damage. So a propress fitting may blow off, but the sweat fittings or the pipe will split.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I say crimp a 3/4 propress on and then sweat a 1/2 cap on and freeze it. I'm sayin the propress will fail everytime. Its simply the weakest link in the chain.


I'll do this one on Monday...


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I've gotta add that, this hasn't really affected my opinion on propress that much. I have not used any, where there would be a possible freeze up. I will continue to use PP where the conditions call for it; limited down time, shut offs not holding, etc. It may not be for everybody, but it has saved me an incredible amount of time, and trouble since we've had it. On copper(REPAIRS) 3" and up it can really save time...


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Agreed Airgap. We have used it for 9 years now. I would like to use it more....


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Airgap said:


> I've gotta add that, this hasn't really affected my opinion on propress that much. I have not used any, where there would be a possible freeze up. I will continue to use PP where the conditions call for it; limited down time, shut offs not holding, etc. It may not be for everybody, but it has saved me an incredible amount of time, and trouble since we've had it. On copper(REPAIRS) 3" and up it can really save time...





ILPlumber said:


> Agreed Airgap. We have used it for 9 years now. I would like to use it more....


 I dont have a problem with it and if I did alot of copper work I would for sure use it. I'm not trying to bash the product or its users at all. If I did new construction i have a few of those press tools.:thumbsup: But its not as strong as a solder joint.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

This is what happens to 1/2 cpvc when you put a propane heater in the same room. They said they had it a foot away from it but the cold line was fine. This was a hot line stub out. I touched the studs (metal) on the other side of the room from the heater and it was hot to the touch. Same with the block wall 7 feet up from the floor. When I got there the heater was in the center of the room about 10 feet away from this water line.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Nice heater:thumbup:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Nice heater:thumbup:


I knew you were going to say that. :laughing:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Lets break down the confusion over psi and force exerted on different size pipes. Picture a single upright pipe with a cap on the top that seals only with an o-ring that is watertight, and freely moves up and down. Lets disregard any resistance or friction loss of said o-ring for this example. Each size of pipe in this example will be charged to 100 psi, it will not matter how long each pipe is as long as the guage is near the top to avoid head pressure discrepancies. It could be 6 inches high or 100 feet. This example will show how heavy of a weight would need to be placed on top of each cap to hold it down. 

1/2 inch cap = 0.1963 sq in x 100 psi = *19.63* lb weight 
3/4 inch cap = 0.4417 sq in x 100 psi = *44.17* lb weight
1 inch cap = 0.7852 sq in x 100 psi = *78.53* lb weight
2 inch cap = 3.141 sq in x 100 psi = *314.10* lb weight
4 inch cap = 12.564 sq in x 100 psi = *1256.40* lb weight
6 inch cap = 28.269 sq in x 100 psi = *2,826.90* lb weight
12 inch cap = 113.076 sq in x 100 psi = *11,307.60* lb weight

See how the force against each larger cap multiplies dramatically, all at the same 100 psi?

This same principle is evident in hydraulic systems. The more weight you need to lift with a given pressure, the larger the piston needs to be. Force is exerted in pounds per square inch so the larger the surface area = more force exerted.
Now my head hurts.:blink:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Lets break down the confusion over psi and force exerted on different size pipes. Picture a single upright pipe with a cap on the top that seals only with an o-ring that is watertight, and freely moves up and down. Lets disregard any resistance or friction loss of said o-ring for this example. Each size of pipe in this example will be charged to 100 psi, it will not matter how long each pipe is as long as the guage is near the top to avoid head pressure discrepancies. It could be 6 inches high or 100 feet. This example will show how heavy of a weight would need to be placed on top of each cap to hold it down.
> 
> 1/2 inch cap = 0.1963 sq in x 100 psi = *19.63* lb weight
> 3/4 inch cap = 0.4417 sq in x 100 psi = *44.17* lb weight
> ...


According to your calculations the following would hold true.
12" cap on a piece of copper attached to a tee and then reduced to 1/2" on the other two outlets of the tee. Ok now pump the whole thing up to 100psi. The whole rig is about 2' long and its sitting on your test bench. I would need a 11,307.60 pound weight on the 12 cap...and a 19.63 pound weight on the 1/2 side of the bullhead tee.
OH but wait...you said it has to be seperate pipes not combined. The test with the propress and soldered copper was combined.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Lets break down the confusion over psi and force exerted on different size pipes. Picture a single upright pipe with a cap on the top that seals only with an o-ring that is watertight, and freely moves up and down. Lets disregard any resistance or friction loss of said o-ring for this example. Each size of pipe in this example will be charged to 100 psi, it will not matter how long each pipe is as long as the guage is near the top to avoid head pressure discrepancies. It could be 6 inches high or 100 feet. This example will show how heavy of a weight would need to be placed on top of each cap to hold it down.
> 
> 1/2 inch cap = 0.1963 sq in x 100 psi = *19.63* lb weight
> 3/4 inch cap = 0.4417 sq in x 100 psi = *44.17* lb weight
> ...


 In the test with the soldered pipe and the propress,the 1/2" propress is the one that blew apart....according to your chart the 1/2" propress had an ADVANTAGE


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Math is not my strong point, If I put a guage on both ends of a bullhead tee (1) 1/2 and (1) 3/4, pressure it up the guages are going to read different?


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Why not redo the test with a 3/4 sweat cap and a 3/4 pressed cap?


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> According to your calculations the following would hold true.
> 12" cap on a piece of copper attached to a tee and then reduced to 1/2" on the other two outlets of the tee. Ok now pump the whole thing up to 100psi. The whole rig is about 2' long and its sitting on your test bench. I would need a 11,307.60 pound weight on the 12 cap...and a 19.63 pound weight on the 1/2 side of the bullhead tee.
> OH but wait...you said it has to be seperate pipes not combined. The test with the propress and soldered copper was combined.


You are correct TM. They could be combined in any combination and the numbers hold true.:yes:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Piperat said:


> You are correct TM. They could be combined in any combination and the numbers hold true.:yes:


 So you are saying I could set the test rig up with a 12" cap and a 1/2" cap on two pieces of vertical pipe and i would need an 11,000 pound weight on the 12" cap and only a 20 pound weight on the 1/2' cap if i pumped it up to 100psi? Its all one complete system.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> In the test with the soldered pipe and the propress,the 1/2" propress is the one that blew apart....according to your chart the 1/2" propress had an ADVANTAGE


Yes the 1/2 propress had an advantage over the 3/4" cap yet still failed first.



slickrick said:


> Math is not my strong point, If I put a guage on both ends of a bullhead tee (1) 1/2 and (1) 3/4, pressure it up the guages are going to read different?


No the guages will both read 100 psi. In all my examples the internal pressure of all sizes are 100 psi. Remember PSI = pounds per square inch. So you have to figure the surface area of your cap in square inches x your PSI to figure the amount of force trying to push the cap off.



SewerRatz said:


> Why not redo the test with a 3/4 sweat cap and a 3/4 pressed cap?


In the previous test the 1/2 propress had an advantage over the 3/4 at least as far as force exerted against it. But you may gain an advantage with a larger crimping area as far as holding power, but thats for the propress engineers. I am just stating the forces being exerted against the surface area of different sized caps.:blink:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

100 psi in a 12" pipe is not going to move 11,000 pounds of mass. You do realize thats over 5 tons dont you?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Yes it will.

It's the same principal as a hydraulic cylinder.

Google it:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

So I could stack about 5 cars end on end over the top and the 12" cap would just push them off at 100 psi huh?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Yes it will.
> 
> It's the same principal as a hydraulic cylinder.
> 
> Google it:laughing:


 Hydraulics use THOUSANDS of pounds of pressure not 100psi


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> 100 psi in a 12" pipe is not going to move 11,000 pounds of mass. You do realize thats over 5 tons dont you?


It will not move 11,307.60 pounds of mass but YES it WILL move 11,000 pounds of mass.:yes:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Hydraulics use THOUSANDS of pounds of pressure not 100psi


Which is why I used the word principal. (It's actually principle, Duh!)

Take a 2" copper cap dry on a clamped riser pipe with your hydrostatic tester on the other end. Have the GF pump it up to 100 psi and see if you can hold it down.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Increasing the size of the pipe does not multiply the energy it would take to move 5 tons at the same 100psi.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Increasing the square inches of the "ram" increases the force it will lift.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Increasing the square inches of the "ram" increases the force it will lift.


 By forcing fluid from a larger cylinder to a smaller cylinder. Wheres that located on your 12" copper pipe and stub and cap?


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Your not exchanging fluid from one cylinder to the other. If you did that the pressure would equalize to 100 psi in both cylinders.:whistling2:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Your not exchanging fluid from one cylinder to the other. If you did that the pressure would equalize to 100 psi in both cylinders.:whistling2:


 Thats what the seals prevent


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

It has been explained here crystal clear. If you don't want to accept facts, that's OK with me.

The facts are this.
If a cap has 100 psi pushing on it, every square inch of surface area of that cap has 100 pounds pushing it. Take the square inches x 100 = total pounds of force pushing on the cap.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

100 psi multiplied by surface area of a 12" cap doesn't equal moving 11,000 pounds of dead weight. Here is an example. If you take a 1/2" cap and a short pieces of pipe and install a tee....on the other side of the tee you install a 12" cap. With your logic I could stop the 1/2" cap from blowing off with a 20 pound weight...but I would need a 12,000 pound weight on the 12" cap to keep it from blowing off.:whistling2::laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

For every action their is an opposite and equal reaction. Now please tell me how 100psi of water in a 12" pipe without being manipulated is going to lift 11,000 pounds. You cannot get porportional energy by increasing size of the container without increasing the pressure some way.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> 100 psi multiplied by surface area of a 12" cap doesn't equal moving 11,000 pounds of dead weight. Here is an example. If you take a 1/2" cap and a short pieces of pipe and install a tee....on the other side of the tee you install a 12" cap. With your logic I could stop the 1/2" cap from blowing off with a 20 pound weight...but I would need a 12,000 pound weight on the 12" cap to keep it from blowing off.:whistling2::laughing:


 Now with your logic a 12" cap with a 6,000 pound weight would blow off before the 1/2" cap with the 20 pound weight on it.......and that makes sense to you? Both have 100 psi on it.:whistling2: All is connected in the same system at 100psi:whistling2:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

How about a thread split?......


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

OK.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

The dead horse has been relocated. The stench remains........


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I find this interesting. It gives me a whole new prospective of PSI.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

sombody answer 1 more stupid question for me and I will quit. So if I had a 1/4" line with a 12 " cap on the end, @ 100 psi , it would be next to impossible to attach it to the pipe?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

If the PSI is equal in a pipe system the force's exerted on the pipe system will be equal. A pipe system doesn't know a 12 cap has been installed on a 1/2" line and if the pressure is the same then the force exerted is the same. You cant get somthing for nothing...for hydrualics to work fluid has to MOVE.....in a static plumbing system nothings moving


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Here is example of a hydraulic cylinder with a piston and rod attached.
Lets say the piston is 12 inch diameter and the rod is 4 inch diameter.
When we apply 100 PSI to the right side of the cylinder (without the rod) it creates 11,310 pounds of pushing force. 
Now lets switch sides and apply 100 psi to the left side (with the rod) and it only creates 10,053 pounds of pushing force.
Why you ask? Remember the force is created by the surface area being pushed against so you have to subtract the area of the piston taken up by the rod.:yes: Here is a link to the page with a calculater. Punch in your own sizes and psi and see for yourself. The forces created are hard to believe but true.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hydraulic-force-calculator-d_1369.html


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Here is example of a hydraulic cylinder with a piston and rod attached.
> Lets say the piston is 12 inch diameter and the rod is 4 inch diameter.
> When we apply 100 PSI to the right side of the cylinder (without the rod) it creates 11,310 pounds of pushing force.
> Now lets switch sides and apply 100 psi to the left side (with the rod) and it only creates 10,053 pounds of pushing force.
> ...


 Push force does not equal lifting capacity.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

slickrick said:


> somebody answer 1 more stupid question for me and I will quit. So if I had a 1/4" line with a 12 " cap on the end, @ 100 psi , it would be next to impossible to attach it to the pipe?


 Is that correct. A simple yes or no?


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Push force does not equal lifting capacity.


I most certainly does. Keep in mind you have to maintain the 100 psi in the cylinder to keep things moving. As the cap (piston) begins to move the volume of the pipe (cylinder) increases thus reducing the PSI in a static system but in a live system (water supply with 100 psi) that 100 PSI is replenished from the supply source thus keeping the pushing force constant.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Piperat said:


> I most certainly does. Keep in mind you have to maintain the 100 psi in the cylinder to keep things moving. As the cap (piston) begins to move the volume of the pipe (cylinder) increases thus reducing the PSI in a static system but in a live system (water supply with 100 psi) that 100 PSI is replenished from the supply source thus keeping the pushing force constant.


I will state this simple example again. If you take a 1/2" tee and cap one end with a 1/2" cap and the other side with a 12" cap and put an11,000 pound weight on top and a 20 pound weight on the 1/2" cap...and used the 3rd port as a water connection.......theres no damn way your gonna blow the 12" cap off before the 1/2" cap blows.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

This thread falls in with field line cleaning...


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

So a large water heater would have more force exerted on it right? So do large water heaters fail quicker than smaller ones? Shouldn't we be using smaller pipes for plumbing as they are better because the internal force would be less. makes sense huh?:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> sombody answer 1 more stupid question for me and I will quit. So if I had a 1/4" line with a 12 " cap on the end, @ 100 psi , it would be next to impossible to attach it to the pipe?


 Thats what they are saying:laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I've got a $100.00 says I can do it with a hose clamp.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> I've got a $100.00 says I can do it with a hose clamp.


 Becareful rick......you know how powerful it is:laughing::jester:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

You say that 100psi of water pressure applied to a 12" cap will have enough energy to move over 5.5 TONS of mass. Now lets reverse this. Say i have a 12" pipe filled with water that 3' tall with a pressure gauge at the bottom and I insert a ram with seals into the top of this pipe. Now its ready to have 5.5 tons of weight applied to the ram...Do you really think that gauge is only going to read 100psi?:whistling2:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

:whistling2:
A lot of debate without much meaning here...

The test was by no means conclusive of anything being stronger or weaker.
The force of water turning to ice in a pipe can be quite high and it really doesn't matter much what you put in front of it. It will split pipes or fittings, push apart any connection it wants to wherever it wants to. the expansion force has been measured in the neighborhood of 40,000 psi.

The real key factor is where the freezing occurs first and in what order to the last area frozen and that has everything to do with where the failure occurs.

Did you know that PEX with more than 7" or less than 2" between fittings is unlikely to experience a freeze failure?

Have an interesting read on the dynamics of freeze testing and stop back when you have a study that means something...
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy06osti/39664.pdf

Oh by the way don't waste a good gauge trying to measure the force of freezing.
You won't get an accurate reading because the needle will peg and when it thaws it will never touch zero again.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Redwood said:


> :whistling2:
> A lot of debate without much meaning here...
> 
> The test was by no means conclusive of anything being stronger or weaker.
> ...


 My money's on the propress pushing off everytime.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I wouldn't bet on it!
I've seen an Apollo Ball Valves split with M copper connected to it on both sides.










Like I said the order of where it freezes is everything. 40,000 psi will blow it up!

Try freezing just the end with the propress first then freeze the whole thing and see what happens.
I guarantee the ice plug will protect the propress.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

This thread turned into a physics lesson for "the master" :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

service guy said:


> This thread turned into a physics lesson for "the master" :laughing:


:laughing:Come on up here TM and fix some pipes with me this winter...:laughing:

You can become an expert once you've seen a few!


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> It wouldn't make any difference. pressure is pressure.


Pressure is pressure, yes.

But *PSI is not a measure of total force over the total surface area, it is only measure of the force on a single square inch of the total surface area*. It must be multiplied by the surface area to come up with the total force exerted on that surface.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Redwood said:


> :laughing:Come on up here TM and fix some pipes with me this winter...:laughing:
> 
> You can become an expert once you've seen a few!


 I've repaired plenty of freeze leaks.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

service guy said:


> Pressure is pressure, yes.
> 
> But *PSI is not a measure of total force over the total surface area, it is only measure of the force on a single square inch of the total surface area*. It must be multiplied by the surface area to come up with the total force exerted on that surface.


 If you think a 12" piston connected to 100psi x1/4" water line can lift 5.5 tons you should stop drinking the kool-aid.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I've repaired plenty of freeze leaks.


What year was that TM?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Redwood said:


> What year was that TM?


1989 and again in the 90's cant remeber what year...thats all we did for 4 weeks straight. And I'm talkin 14 hr days


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> 1989 and again in the 90's cant remeber what year...thats all we did for 4 weeks straight. And I'm talkin 14 hr days


1989. As I said in my caming thread it snowed in west central florida that winter. In january I believe it was. So I'm sure it was cold where you're at TM


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

take a look at this link and see how much weight you could lift with your 12" cap

http://www.wisc-online.com/objects/index_tj.asp?objID=HYP804


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> 1989 and again in the 90's cant remeber what year...thats all we did for 4 weeks straight. And I'm talkin 14 hr days


Oh...
Just what I thought...:laughing:

When it gets real cold here we can walk on Long Island Sound....

Let me know when you can walk on the Gulf of Mexico...

We'll talk!:whistling2:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> If you think a 12" piston connected to 100psi x1/4" water line can lift 5.5 tons you should stop drinking the kool-aid.


A 12" surface area piston, yes.

It wouldn't move it much, but it would move it. Do the math, its quite simple.

Pi*Radius*Squared to find the surface area of a 12" diameter surface piston. The multiply that by the PSI... and you get you pounds of force exerted.

3.14 x 36 x 100 = 11,304 pounds of force.

See it now?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Oh...
> Just what I thought...:laughing:
> 
> When it gets real cold here we can walk on Long Island Sound....
> ...


 Your forgetting that systems are not designed around freezing temps here and when it freezes its a major event


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

house plumber said:


> 1989. As I said in my caming thread it snowed in west central florida that winter. In january I believe it was. So I'm sure it was cold where you're at TM


 It was during christmas of 89.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

service guy said:


> A 12" surface area piston, yes.
> 
> It wouldn't move it much, but it would move it. Do the math, its quite simple.
> 
> ...


 if you filled a 12"x6" pipe up with water and capped one end and placed a ram in the other end and on top of the ram you placed 5.5 tons of mass......what would the pressure be in the pipe? YOUR saying it would be 100 psi. I dont think so.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> if you filled a 12"x6" pipe up with water and capped one end and placed a ram in the other end and on top of the ram you placed 5.5 tons of mass......what would the pressure be in the pipe? YOUR saying it would be 100 psi. I dont think so.


NO, WE ALL are trying to say that 100 psi will move MORE weight depending on the surface area it is applied to.

Just admit that you learned something, this is getting embarrassing for you.:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Your forgetting that systems are not designed around freezing temps here and when it freezes its a major event


Yea, I suppose...

The wait for it to warm up at noon musta been horrendous...:laughing:

I went to a call once that started as a hydronic heating line freezing up...
Without heat the whole house was frozen even the line from the main into the house...

It takes a while to get out of a whole house freeze up...:thumbup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

service guy said:


> NO, WE ALL are trying to say that 100 psi will move MORE weight depending on the surface area it is applied to.
> 
> Just admit that you learned something, this is getting embarrassing for you.:laughing:


The 125psi at the garage lifts my loaded van right up in the air...:whistling2:
The mechanic walks around underneath it too!:laughing:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> if you filled a 12"x6" pipe up with water and capped one end and placed a ram in the other end and on top of the ram you placed 5.5 tons of mass......what would the pressure be in the pipe? YOUR saying it would be 100 psi. I dont think so.


In your new scenario. The math is done backwards.

5.5 tons = 11,000 pounds

11,000 pound divided by ( 3.14 x 36 ) = 97.31 PSI.

SO to answer your question the pressure in the pipe would be approx. 97.31 psi


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

service guy said:


> No, WE ALL are trying to say that 100 psi will move MORE weight depending on the surface area it is applied to.
> 
> Just admit that you learned something, this is getting embarrassing for you.:laughing:


Get back on topic and explain why the pressure gauge wouldn't read 100psi with 5.5 tons applied to the ram? pressurizing a 12" cap will not move 5.5 tons


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> if you filled a 12"x6" pipe up with water and capped one end and placed a ram in the other end and on top of the ram you placed 5.5 tons of mass......what would the pressure be in the pipe? YOUR saying it would be 100 psi. I dont think so.


That is absolutely correct.:yes: 11,307.6 lbs to be exact will give you a 100 psi fluid pressure.:thumbup:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Get back on topic and explain why the pressure gauge wouldn't read 100psi with 5.5 tons applied to the ram? pressurizing a 12" cap will not move 5.5 tons


I already did, the pressure gauge would read around 97 psi.:whistling2:
If you choose to be ignorant, then that is your choice alone.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I'ma say this once more. if you attach a 12" copper cap to a 1/4" 100psi water line it will not take 11,000 pounds of mass to keep that cap from blowing off and right next to it a 1/2" cap with 20 pounds of mass on it ...not being affected.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

bartnc37 said:


> take a look at this link and see how much weight you could lift with your 12" cap
> 
> http://www.wisc-online.com/objects/index_tj.asp?objID=HYP804


Thank you Bartnc37 for finding this. The Master may bow to me now.:yes:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

service guy said:


> I already did, the pressure gauge would read around 97 psi.:whistling2:
> If you choose to be ignorant, then that is your choice alone.


 Your one of the most ignorant ones on here,since you want to bring up intelligence.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I'ma say this once more. if you attach a 12" copper cap to a 1/4" 100psi water line it will not take 11,000 pounds of mass to keep that cap from blowing off and right next to it a 1/2" cap with 20 pounds of mass on it ...not being affected.


Oh yes it will.:yes:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I'ma say this once more. if you attach a 12" copper cap to a 1/4" 100psi water line it will not take 11,000 pounds of mass to keep that cap from blowing off and right next to it a 1/2" cap with 20 pounds of mass on it ...not being affected.


Nobody ever said that. We just said that there would be more than enough force to move that much weight (given there was zero friction in the cap scenario, which there is not) MOVING the weight and "blowing the weight off" are two different things.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Oh yes it will.:yes:


 So a larger water heater is inferior to a small water heater? remeber the bigger the end cap the more force and more force will find the weak spot right?


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

*Tko*

I hope the referee jumps in and stops this before TM suffers permanent damage.:laughing:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Theres more force against the cap as a whole yes but you have more perimeter weld to distribute the affects. But each individual square inch in a large or small tank is supporting the same PSI. Thats another whole set of math though.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

service guy said:


> Nobody ever said that. We just said that there would be more than enough force to move that much weight (given there was zero friction in the cap scenario, which there is not) MOVING the weight and "blowing the weight off" are two different things.


 Oh yes that was said earlier.......take a 1/2" tee and put a cap on one side and a 12' cap on the other side.....it was said that you could have a 20 pound weight on the 1/2' but it would take over an 11,000 pound weight on the 12" cap with 100 psi applied to the center of the tee.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I used to be in the fire/rescue service, my specialty was vehicle extrication. The air bags we used, 24"x 24" were pressurized with a 3/8 " hose w/ 3500 psi bottles, The surface area was there, 100 psi would not have done squat. The math is not being applied correctly. Or we were seriously FU.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

service guy said:


> Nobody ever said that. We just said that there would be more than enough force to move that much weight (given there was zero friction in the cap scenario, which there is not) MOVING the weight and "blowing the weight off" are two different things.


 Oh yes that was said earlier.......take a 1/2" tee and put a cap on one side and a 12" cap on the other side.....it was said that you could have a 20 pound weight on the 1/2" but it would take over an 11,000 pound weight on the 12" cap with 100 psi applied to the center of the tee to keep the 12" cap from moving.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Oh yes that was said earlier.......take a 1/2" tee and put a cap on one side and a 12' cap on the other side.....it was said that you could have a 20 pound weight on the 1/2' but it would take over an 11,000 pound weight on the 12" cap with 100 psi applied to the center of the tee.


Yes this is correct, The pipe needs to be secured though so the forces are only acting on the caps.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> According to your calculations the following would hold true.
> 12" cap on a piece of copper attached to a tee and then reduced to 1/2" on the other two outlets of the tee. Ok now pump the whole thing up to 100psi. The whole rig is about 2' long and its sitting on your test bench. I would need a 11,307.60 pound weight on the 12 cap...and a 19.63 pound weight on the 1/2 side of the bullhead tee.
> OH but wait...you said it has to be seperate pipes not combined. The test with the propress and soldered copper was combined.





Piperat said:


> You are correct TM. They could be combined in any combination and the numbers hold true.:yes:





Piperat said:


> Yes this is correct, The pipe needs to be secured though so the forces are only acting on the caps.





service guy said:


> Nobody ever said that. We just said that there would be more than enough force to move that much weight (given there was zero friction in the cap scenario, which there is not) MOVING the weight and "blowing the weight off" are two different things.


 Now are you still thirsty?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Thank you Bartnc37 for finding this. The Master may bow to me now.:yes:


Are they using air or water in place of hydraulic fluids and pumps now?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Piperat is saying that all you need to move over 11,000 pounds is 100 psi and a 12" round pipe cap with an "O" ring in it to seal and allow it to slide up and down the pipe without leaking even though you have a 1/2" pipe and cap in the same system with 20 pounds of weight laying on it. Thats crazy to think the 1/2" cap would be ignorned while the 11,000 pounds gets lifted into the air.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Give me a minute TM, I'll explain it using the link Bart posted. I'll be back.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

In the mean time I looked up a 24 x 24 fire rescue bag and at maximum working pressure of 118 PSI it will lift 29.2 TONS. Same principle.


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

TM if I use your logic I need #2500 psi in the tires of my #10,000 truck


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

liquidplumber said:


> TM if I use your logic I need #2500 psi in the tires of my #10,000 truck


 And using your logic i could move the world with 1 psi if I had a big enough pipe cap.


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> And using your logic i could move the world with 1 psi if I had a big enough pipe cap.


BINGO TM now you are starting to get it:thumbup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

slickrick said:


> I used to be in the fire/rescue service, my specialty was vehicle extrication. The air bags we used, 24"x 24" were pressurized with a 3/8 " hose w/ 3500 psi bottles, The surface area was there, 100 psi would not have done squat. The math is not being applied correctly. Or we were seriously FU.


It depends on the equipment design.
We had some of the type you described but we also had some like this...
One bag lifts 9.8 tons 72" with 7-psi...

http://matjack.thomasnet.com/item/m...ck-low-pressure-air-bag-c5672/119g?&forward=1


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

The 1/2" cap with 20 pounds of mass on it will never sit still while the 12" cap next to it has 11,000 pounds of mass moves in the same system.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Hey Airgap, post those pictures over at the Ridgid site. I want to hear Rick's reaction :thumbsup:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Above example 100 pounds sitting atop a 10 square inch piston = 10 psi fluid pressure. 100 lbs / 10 sq in = 10 psi.
Then you see the 10 psi fluid pushing against a 100 square inch piston creates a 1000 lb lifting force.
10 psi x 100 Sq in = 1000 lbs.
Both sides equal each other out.
Now lets reverse engineer the above.
1000 pounds sitting atop the 100 sq in piston = 10 psi fluid pressure.
1000 lbs / 100 sq in = 10 psi.
So 10 psi pushing against the 10 sq in piston = 100 lbs lifting force.
10 psi x 10 sq in = 100 lbs.
The math works both ways.
Now my example.........
To figure the surface area of the piston take pii (3.141) x Radius squared.
1/2" piston 3.141 x (.25 x .25)0.0625 = *0.1963 sq inches*
12" piston 3.141 x (6 x 6)36 = *113.076 sq inches*
Here goes...........
20 lb weight sitting atop 1/2" piston
20 lbs / 0.1963 sq in = 101.88 PSI fluid pressure
101.88 PSI x 113.076 sq in = 11,520.88 lb force

So a 20 lb weight atop a 1/2" piston would equalize with an 11,520.88 lb weight sitting atop the 12" piston.
Mind boggling but true:thumbup:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Jeezus Christ Piperat you need to get a life man :laughing:

All dat figurin done makes my head hurt


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I think I see what you are saying.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Water is non compressible as is oil. Thats why pressure testing with water is inherently safer than air testing. By safer i mean the caps wont come off at 200mph and crack your skull when testing with water.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Yes a non compressible fluid make it efficient but it would stiil hold true with air. The pistons would just move farther down to compress the air to 101.88 psi, but that would stabilize and equalize just the same.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Not really Rick the force multiplication is the same regardless of whether it is pneumatic of hydraulic however, fluids are easily regulated and that may keep your car from getting launched of the top of that garage lift...

They get a little jerky when they are low on hydraulic oil!:laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

So. attaching a larger cap to a smaller line adds more force to pull against that connection?


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

correct. Thats why the hub depth on fittings get deeper as you increase in size


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

slickrick said:


> So. attaching a larger cap to a smaller line adds more force to pull against that connection?


Oh are we going back to the original ice pushing off the propress cap?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Very interesting


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Oh are we going back to the original ice pushing off the propress cap?


I'm just trying to wrap my mind around all this. The air bag or a tire was a good example for a non-math type such as myself. And the visual aids were stimulating also.

I will doing field test tomorrow with a hose w/a large cap w/125 lbs of static pressure.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

slickrick said:


> I'm just trying to wrap my mind around all this. The air bag or a tire was a good example for a non-math type such as myself. And the visual aids were stimulating also.
> 
> I will doing field test tomorrow with a hose w/a large cap w/125 lbs of static pressure.


Ah hell with it just make a pvc potato cannon it's a lot more fun!:thumbup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

So I could stack 7500 hundreds pounds of mass on top of a 12" cap and a 1/4" 100 psi water line would blow that little bit of weight off it since it can lift over 11,000 pounds if its no soldered on.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Take a common 2x4 stud and stand it vertical and put 11,000 pounds of mass on top of it......thats several cars by the way. What do you think would happen? Now take a 12" cap with an oring seal and slip it on a stub of 12" pipe. Wedge a 2x4 against a concrete wall and the rig you just made....now pressure it up to 100psi. Do you relly think the 2x4 would snap?


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> So I could stack 7500 hundreds pounds of mass on top of a 12" cap and a 1/4" 100 psi water line would blow that little bit of weight off it since it can lift over 11,000 pounds if its no soldered on.


YEP. It would have to have an o-ring seal though.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Take a common 2x4 stud and stand it vertical and put 11,000 pounds of mass on top of it......thats several cars by the way. What do you think would happen? Now take a 12" cap with an oring seal and slip it on a stub of 12" pipe. Wedge a 2x4 against a concrete wall and the rig you just made....now pressure it up to 100psi. Do you relly think the 2x4 would snap?


Sir please step away from the 2x4, Step away sir


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

bartnc37 said:


> Water is non compressible as is oil. Thats why pressure testing with water is inherently safer than air testing. By safer i mean the caps wont come off at 200mph and crack your skull when testing with water.


Technically, both are compressible under certain extreme conditions, but nothing you would find outside a lab


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Shoes 35.5" 
Operating Weight 100,860 lb 
Ground Pressure 7.74 psi 
The above example of ground pressure is the weight per square inch of the tracks on an excavator bearing on the ground. This machine weighs 100,860 lbs but only transfers 7.74 psi to the ground surface. How does this work? The same principle applies to the piston in our example, the weight is spread out over a large area.
100,860 lbs divided by 7.74 psi = 13,031 square inches of surface area.
The track (shoes) are 35.5" wide so..................
13,031 / 35.5 = 367.07 lineal inches of track (bearing surface)
Divide that by 12...............you get 30.59 lineal feet of 35.5" wide track to support this weight. Divide x 2 = 15.29 LF of 35.5" wide track per side will support this 100,860 lb machine while only applying 7.74 psi to the bearing surface. That explains why tracked machines are far more manueverable than tire machines. They can literally walk on top the ground. Same principle guys.
Should I bring up snowshoes?:laughing:


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

Easy experiment ......

Set your compressor to #100 psi and attach one of these... you can easily hold back the pressure with one finger.
Then try filling a 2" pipe with your whole hand over an open end....
Case closed


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

If one finger stops the flow of air on that air gun you better toss it and get one thats osha approved....:whistling2:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=DIRECTIVES&p_id=1742


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

You gents do realize you are arguing with just one person. Right? :laughing:

I have said my peace and moved on.


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

Redwood said:


> If one finger stops the flow of air on that air gun you better toss it and get one thats osha approved....:whistling2:
> 
> http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=DIRECTIVES&p_id=1742


I don't get what you mean....try it


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Read at this link...
http://www.labsafety.com/refinfo/ezfacts/ezf187.htm

Compressed air into your skin can cause serious problems...

And if that air gun is at your shop or jobsite it can cost you money.


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

Gotcha..... I missed the link first time around... thanks


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Ok lets breakdown liquid plumbers example.................
Lets say the outlet of the blowgun is 1/4 "..............
(Pii) 3.141 x radius squared of 1/4" outlet (.125 x .125)0.016 = .050 sq inches x 100 psi = 5 lbs force

Now lets fill up a 2 inch pipe..............
(Pii) 3.141 x radius squared of 2 " outlet (1 x 1)1 = 3.141 sq inches x 100 psi = 314.10 lbs force


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> You gents do realize you are arguing with just one person. Right? :laughing:
> 
> I have said my peace and moved on.


Just waiting for The Master to bow to the Piperat:whistling2:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Still waiting for The Master







The PipeRat rules in the math department.







YES!!!


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Piperat said:


> Still waiting for The Master
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude, there's a reason I was baked every day that I had Physics / trig / calk / and geo 2 in college. I read everything you posted in this God forsaken thread and all I could think about was these annoying ass professors who couldn't cut it in the real world so they decided to teach. Unless your name is Dr. Bodner and you're still 110lbs. with some TnA that can make a young man slap the bottom of his desk...I don't wanna hear / see anymore of this ****. I suffered enough, I don't need it here too. You may now continue to wait for TheMaster to very inpolitley disagree with you :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Piperat said:


> Still waiting for The Master
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't hold your breath...
You'll turn blue....:laughing:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Tankless said:


> Dude, there's a reason I was baked every day that I had Physics / trig / calk / and geo 2 in college. I read everything you posted in this God forsaken thread and all I could think about was these annoying ass professors *who couldn't cut it in the real world* so they decided to teach. Unless your name is Dr. Bodner and you're still 110lbs. with some TnA that can make a young man slap the bottom of his desk...I don't wanna hear / see anymore of this ****. I suffered enough, I don't need it here too. You may now continue to wait for TheMaster to very inpolitley disagree with you :laughing:


Dude I am no professer but I will tell you I was brought up old school by some damn good craftsmen (31 years ago). It goes in plumb, level, neat and square or it ain't goin' in under my watch. I don't care if its under the slab or behind the wall never to be seen again. Uncover it in 50 years after I'm gone and you will see a masterpiece. Copper supply and PVC DWV.:yes: Maybe I should be known as "The Master" :jester:


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I was speaking with reference to all the equations, formulas and brain work. I understand what you are saying about things that will never be seen again. I know how it looks and that's all I need to know.


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

This is by far the most interesting thread I have read here. There is an interesting reaction that people have when their "common sense" is overcome by scientific fact. Look what happened to that guy who said the earth moved around the sun, not the other way around. I don't mean to point fingers, I have had my ass whooped by these same concepts and struggle to learn as I go.
As plumbers we deal with applied physics everyday. I still am trying to get my head around thermal expansion. Anyway, great topic, reminds me of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Hey Airgap, post those pictures over at the Ridgid site. I want to hear Rick's reaction :thumbsup:


Look for it on monday.....


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Dude I am no professer but I will tell you I was brought up old school by some damn good craftsmen (31 years ago). It goes in plumb, level, neat and square or it ain't goin' in under my watch. I don't care if its under the slab or behind the wall never to be seen again. Uncover it in 50 years after I'm gone and you will see a masterpiece. Copper supply and PVC DWV.:yes: Maybe I should be known as "The Master" :jester:


I will put the quality of my work and problem solving skills up against anyone. I have admitted that advanced math is something that does not stick in my computer, never has. People are wired different. Don't get the big head. I will continue to learn as long as I live.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

slickrick said:


> I will put the quality of my work and problem solving skills up against anyone. I have admitted that advanced math is something that does not stick in my computer, never has. People are wired different. Don't get the big head. I will continue to learn as long as I live.


I don't think he has a big head, he's getting ripped by people because he is using physics and science.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

slickrick said:


> I will put the quality of my work and problem solving skills up against anyone. I have admitted that advanced math is something that does not stick in my computer, never has. People are wired different. *Don't get the big head*. I will continue to learn as long as I live.


*Sorry don't mean to come off that way.:blink: Nothing could be further from the truth. I was responding to this* *remark.*

_"I read everything you posted in this God forsaken thread and all I could think about was these annoying ass professors *who couldn't cut it in the real world* "_

*That and The Master thinking I'm crazy for saying you can balance 5 junk cars next to a 20 pound weight.* :laughing:


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

You certainly cannot ignore the "SI" part of "PSI". On submarines, the ventilation system starts in a fan room, and the filtered air is distributed from their. When the fan is running in high speed, the pressure inside the fan room is about 4" WC PSIG. An NFL lineman cannot open the door into the room against that pressure ( 4"wc against about 2100 square inches).


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

72 years old and I just graduated from college.

Gentlemen ... I never dreamed that the pro-press, sharkbite post would turn into a college degree. 
​


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Piperat said:


> *Sorry don't mean to come off that way.:blink: Nothing could be further from the truth. I was responding to this* *remark.*
> 
> _"I read everything you posted in this God forsaken thread and all I could think about was these annoying ass professors *who couldn't cut it in the real world* "_
> 
> *That and The Master thinking I'm crazy for saying you can balance 5 junk cars next to a 20 pound weight.* :laughing:


This PSI stuff is very interesting to me. I will be using it in some unique ways in the future no doubt. I can take info, and come up with some wild ideas. Keep it coming.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Another interesting tidbit in our 1/2" vs. 12" piston is you would have to depress the 1/2" piston 576 inches for every inch you wanted to raise the 12" piston. :yes: Thats 48 feet


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Piperat said:


> Another interesting tidbit in our 1/2" vs. 12" piston is you would have to depress the 1/2" piston 576 inches for every inch you wanted to raise the 12" piston. :yes: Thats 48 feet


The physical universe is truly an awesome place!:thumbsup:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

OK, My high tech. test results are in. I took a 4" pvc cap, bushing down a 4x2 red. to hose thread. Coupled the 2 together with a 4" fernco to make a piston. Hooked up to 125# water pressure and stood on it. It lifted my 210 lbs when I cracked the hose. never got close to line pressure. So there, I was right... I'm just sayin'


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Noooo, nooo...I'm sorry, I meant nothing like that. I was simply expressing my hatred for some of my former professors. They (most) were burn outs in their respective fields and to me, hated teaching or hated the fact that me and a few other guys were always stoned, jet we all maintained 4.0 GPA's. Well, not in Calculas 2....I barley passed that one...sober or otherwise that stuff was hard. But please, my remark about cutting it in the real world had nothing at all to do with this topic or the people involved....just some bum engineers who thought they could teach. sorry for the mix up....written text versus vocal expression gets lost online...we need better smilies :laughing:




Piperat said:


> *Sorry don't mean to come off that way.:blink: Nothing could be further from the truth. I was responding to this* *remark.*
> 
> _"I read everything you posted in this God forsaken thread and all I could think about was these annoying ass professors *who couldn't cut it in the real world* "_
> 
> *That and The Master thinking I'm crazy for saying you can balance 5 junk cars next to a 20 pound weight.* :laughing:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks for the reply Tank, I thought you were being kinda tough on me:laughing:


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