# WATER HEATER STANDS and FVIR HEATERS...



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

With the new Fvir waterheaters is it still really necessary
to intall them up on an 18 inch platform in the garage??
has their been any modifications to the rules lately that I have not heard about??

I have run into a few guys in town that have lowered them
right down to the garage floor and I just thought that they 
were too lazy to raise them. usring the excuse that they are
a FVIR waterheater and are fire safe now. I would prefer leaving them up 
on the stand unless its totally impossible to do...


I had one last friday that turned out to be in a heated 
laundry room off of the garage with a sealed door on it, the heater
was a bradford white 48 gallon LOW BOY gas heater on a stand 
it was leaking badly and their are none of them availabel in town till next weeks shipment...:yes:. 

We ended up installing a 50 gallon tall Rheem.... 
We Installed it in a pan and raised the new unit approx one 
foot off the floor on bricks and it fit perfectly into the existing chimmney.... 
of course the chimmney could not be raised up ..

if it were not for the door that separated the two rooms,
I would have probably installed a 40 gallon low boy and told them to wait a week...


so how far would you bend the rules with the new
FVIR water heaters in mean situtaions???..
...
__________________


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

To my knowledge I am unaware that Indiana has adopted any change as it pertains to FVIR Water Heaters. I was just scanning the code the other day and did not see any changes. Of course its best to get it from the Inspector.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

In some situations you just can't meet the codes due to existing conditions that were approved methods in the past. That's just the way it is.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Not required to be on a stand under our code.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Code in KY does not require raising anymore. Otherwise every big box store would be in a world of ****.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

AR does not require FVIR's to be on a stand anymore, as of this year.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Kentycky*



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Code in KY does not require raising anymore. Otherwise every big box store would be in a world of ****.


they still want thermal expansion tanks, prv valves alll the bells ans whistles to make them safe , but dont want them on stands .....

I know any dumbass going to lowes will simply install one on the floor, but my liability is what I am more worried about..... 

 the odds are I would have better 
chance winning the power ball than being sued over a fire in the garage with the new FVIR heaters....

so I did ok with my modifications.....


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I did get sued on the old style wh before the platform days. They sued me, Rheem and the supplier. I saw the wh after it was removed. It looked like someone poured something under the wh. Rheem handled it, and I never was called for a deposition.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

All the Areas around including Seattle I am allowed to put the new FVIR HWT's on the floor.


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## DownHill (Oct 15, 2010)

Our area went back and forth & all over the place. Last I talked with the head of DOI interpretations he said "Whatever the manufacturer states. If it lists it to be on a stand on the heater somewhere, then put it on a stand..."

In short, he doesn't make a "stand". :laughing: And lets the manufacturer supersede our IPC code. 

With the FVIR test they do for it to be certified, I lean toward it not needing to be on a stand. 

What I think is really nuts is putting an electric on a stand. :blink: Meanwhile a _dryer_ does not have to be on any type of stand.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

City of San Diego surprisingly acted very quickly in 2003 to allow "no stand" for an FVIR. However, they can still invoke the requirement that a WH in a garage be protected from bumping by the car, and one way to do the is to keep it on the stand. Otherwise, they will ask for a bollard.


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## DownHill (Oct 15, 2010)

grandpa said:


> City of San Diego surprisingly acted very quickly in 2003 to allow "no stand" for an FVIR. However, they can still invoke the requirement that a WH in a garage be protected from bumping by the car, and one way to do the is to keep it on the stand. Otherwise, they will ask for a bollard.


That one doesn't make sense to me. How can a stand protect the water heater from a car? 

We have to put in the pole no matter what. Aggravating but makes sense to me at least.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*they are all wimps and weenies*



DownHill said:


> What I think is really nuts is putting an electric on a stand. :blink: Meanwhile a _dryer_ does not have to be on any type of stand.


 
most inspectors are all like Barney Feifs , wanting to look like big shots, but when it comes to actually making a decision about something, they back peddle like little wimps, weenies, or like politicians cause it might get them in trouble with someone...

yes an electric water heater is a stupid and retarted thing to have up on a stand with an electric 200volt dryer with an exposed plug sitting right next to it..


just our government protecting us from ourselves...:laughing::laughing:


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## DownHill (Oct 15, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> most inspectors are all like Barney Feifs , wanting to look like big shots,  but when it comes to actually making a decision about something, they back peddle like little wimps, weenies, or like politicians cause it might get them in trouble with someone...
> 
> yes an electric water heater is a stupid and retarted thing to have up on a stand with an electric 200volt dryer with an exposed plug sitting right next to it..
> 
> ...


Went a couple of rounds with an inspector at a CE class. He was stating that an FVIR heater did not have to be on a stand but an electric had to be on a stand because it was _not FVIR rated._ 

Because there had not been an "approved test" on it, then it had to be on a stand. I told him the reason there has not been an approved test done is because there has not been a problem. :blink:

He also had a slideshow of some plumbing to discuss. I pointed out a couple of violations. He didn't like it.....

It was his house that he had plumbed.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Under our code, the installation of FVIR W/H's is vague. Our code states W/H's shall be installed according to mfg's instructions.

Personally, I install FVIR W/H's on an 18" stand just in the event someone alters it (ie: remove glass sight window) and then it is no longer FVIR compliant. With glass removed, flammable vapors might ignite.

After FVIR W/H is installed, there is no guarantee that a hack won't get his hands on it.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I honestly can not believe they are allowing the FVIR heaters to not be on a stand. Yes when the FVIR system is working the odds of a flash over is slim. But what if Joe HomeOwner decides to open the sealed combustion chamber door? What if he decides the site glass is an issue and knocks it out?

If the heater was a true sealed combustion chamber Direct Vent heater then I can see no stand since its combustion air is coming in from the outside. The FVIR heaters still burn inside combustion air. And if for any reason the safeties fail, or someone screws with the chamber, it can get real messy.

I do not care if my code allows me to put the new FVIR heater on the floor in a garage, I am still putting it on a stand.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Under our code, the installation of FVIR W/H's is vague. Our code states W/H's shall be installed according to mfg's instructions.
> 
> Personally, I install FVIR W/H's on an 18" stand just in the event someone alters it (ie: remove glass sight window) and then it is no longer FVIR compliant. With glass removed, flammable vapors might ignite.
> 
> After FVIR W/H is installed, there is no guarantee that a hack won't get his hands on it.


I should of refreshed the thread before I posted.. you hit the nail on the head sir.


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## john_mccormack (Feb 27, 2010)

*Gas boilers*

Here in the cooler climates where boiler systems are prevalent these "safety features" are a moot point. We may install FVIR water heaters on blocks in case the basement gets some water, but they may also be mounted next to open-combustion-chamber gas boilers. 
Sure, the WH didn't ignite the flammable vapors (good thing we were required to buy the more expensive WH), but the boiler ignition set them off!


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

We cannot install any plumbing in a garage except for a frost proof hose bibb. So it doesn't really matter here.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> We cannot install any plumbing in a garage except for a frost proof hose bibb. So it doesn't really matter here.


Yea...
I was going to say I don't know what our code requires....
I've never seen one! :laughing:
We have underground storage units and equipment rooms called basements...

Maybe one of these days I'll look it up it just doesn't seem important to me...:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> Under our code, the installation of FVIR W/H's is vague. Our code states W/H's shall be installed according to mfg's instructions.
> 
> Personally, I install FVIR W/H's on an 18" stand just in the event someone alters it (ie: remove glass sight window) and then it is no longer FVIR compliant. With glass removed, flammable vapors might ignite.
> 
> After FVIR W/H is installed, there is no guarantee that a hack won't get his hands on it.


I found the reference to FVIR W/H's, it was not in my plumbing code book, it was in fuel gas code book. The 2007 FL Fuel Gas Code states: "Elevation of the ignition source is not required for appliances that are listed as flammable vapor ignition resistant." 305.3

Of course many of us disagree with that position.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

i dug this up just for yall...old news:thumbsup:


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Man I'm glad the search tool works here. 

I've been installing the direct vent heaters on the floor. A guy I know cuts the legs on the existing stand so he can put the new one on a stand and use the same hole through the wall. 

I feel safer just putting it directly on the floor rather than cutting the legs!


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> so how far would you bend the rules with the new
> FVIR water heaters in mean situtaions???..
> ...
> __________________


What does the inspector say to do. We are told if we can't raise a water heater it is to be put it inside of an 18" high pan with a sealed door on it in front of the burner.

All of our water heater are permitted and signed off on by a plumbing inspector.


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Associated Plum said:


> All of our water heater are permitted and signed off on by a plumbing inspector.


They changed the rules here, no permit for a like-for-like replacement water heater. Worst decision ever, IMO.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I agree terrible rule. The board originally wanted it only to be electric, however the general asembly? Changed it to include all w.h.,s

I fin very few to none that fit the criteria in my area. I have to add a thermal expansion tank to every heater therefore disqualifying from the like for like. U must also have a syb license from the electrical board to wire a electric w.h. Most of the electrical o come across is not up to either i.e. no conduit or no disconnect.

In order to fall under the like for like the w.h. mist be up to code requiring no changes, same cap., same location.

When replacing a ten yr. Old w.h. it is very unlikely to meet all the criteria.

As usual the most difficult part is getting the inspectors on the same page


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