# failed inspection



## matkg (Mar 3, 2013)

Just wondering if anyone following Illinois plumbing code has failed an inspection for using an offset closet collar? I did today its a first for me I don't see anything in section 890 of our code book in regards to this thanks


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## tims007 (Aug 31, 2013)

i know here where i am they are illegal as all heck and from what i heard that it is spreading all over .. not so sound like a dick .. but perhaps who ever did the rough in should measure better so one is not needed... or time to move all the pipe to the right area...


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Jackhammer time.


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

Hey tims007, not to sound like a dick , but stfu.what a stupid comment.im sure you've never made a mistake. Lmao.


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## tims007 (Aug 31, 2013)

younger-plumber said:


> Hey tims007, not to sound like a dick , but stfu.what a stupid comment.im sure you've never made a mistake. Lmao.


you are very correct .. i have .. and i have made many and had to pay the fine . and the best way to learn is to make those mistakes and then learn from them  .

but the rules are getting stricter and stricter .. when we were once able to use something to account for being off a smidge we got a little lax ... well now they are no longer allowed so we have to get back to basics again and measuring many many times and making sure everything is where it should be ... and im only directly quoting a few inspectors from the areas that i used to work in when i said that statement about roughing in .. ....

but what do i care ... its the internet right .. we are suppose to get butt-hurt about everything


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

I've used them before. But I have always called the inspector and pleaded my case. If it's not something you commonly use- always ask.


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## CMerr (Feb 19, 2014)

I think they use this section of UPC
*311.5* No fitting, fixture and piping connection, appliance, device, or method of installation that obstructs or retards the flow of water, wastes, sewage, or air in the drainage or venting systems, in an amount exceeding the normal frictional resistance to flow, shall be used unless it is indicated as acceptable in this code or is approved per section 301.1 of this code.

Might be something else but thats all I can think of.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

It all depends on what town your'e in and who the inspector is around here in good old Illinois and Crook County,TPI doing the inspection and you'll fail because you didn't shave.Sooner or later your going to come across a situation where you just have to use one,doesn't mean you like them.Hell I even have a home made iron for the C.I. ones and i haven't used one in years.


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## matkg (Mar 3, 2013)

Had now choice but to use one here the toilet fell right on a main joist just wanted to move it closer to the wall a few bucks for an offset collar or reframing around my pipe the house was built in 1924


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## ezplumbing (Jan 27, 2011)

City code is different than upc code city code may be stricter than upc


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

what about roughing for 10" or 14" wc?


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## Sushison (Nov 24, 2013)

Sorry, just curious, why would they be considered illegal? Because they retard the flow of water?


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Sushison said:


> Sorry, just curious, why would they be considered illegal? Because they retard the flow of water?


Not just water but solids. I as an inspector have allowed them in certain instances because of framing issues , not because of rough-in dimensions but side to side, with the plumber calling me first for approval.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Sushison (Nov 24, 2013)

Ah gotcha. Do the job right and you'll only do it once.


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## matkg (Mar 3, 2013)

Spend a thousand dollars on labor and material to reframe a hundred year old house or use an offset collar? Its on an outside wall with a ruble stone foundation headering it off won't be easy I said phac it and left the toilet tank 6 inches off of the wall


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

good now they can clean and paint behind the toilet. not a big fan of offset flanges


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

As though they more restrictive than the integral trapway of the fixture bolted to them 
That's a knotted set of Victoria's Secrets if ever I've seen.


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## Chris3topher271 (Jun 13, 2014)

matkg said:


> Had now choice but to use one here the toilet fell right on a main joist just wanted to move it closer to the wall a few bucks for an offset collar or reframing around my pipe the house was built in 1924


 What about a smaller toilet tank?


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## Chris3topher271 (Jun 13, 2014)

Sorry, didn't read page 2 before my comment......Clearly, Mistakes happen


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## billwestrick (Mar 4, 2013)

try the sioux chief "full flush"
part #889-pom. 1 1 /2" off set with no restrictions.
our inspectors have no problems with these flanges.

bw


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

As far as I know an offset closet ring is illegal. Ive used them befor never been called because an inspector didnt see it. I have however had an inspector call a finished w/c under 15 inches from side wall. He went as far as tell us to pull the toilet do the work and show him the rough in. then reset it and he informed us that an offset ring must not be used. not a fun job jackhamering in a new house but I been there!


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## A Fast Plumbing (Nov 6, 2012)

Just my two cents guys, but it appears that offset closet flanges regardless of UPC or local building code legality should never be used. 

Nobody has mentioned the fact that the fitting creates a hard turn (almost a shelf) and a semi restricted opening within the fitting. This is a natural resting place for fecal matter, toilet paper or other products flushed down toilets to hang up on. This is particularly prominent on cast iron offset closet flanges. With the use of heavy multi-ply and quilted toilet paper or toilet seat covers it is inevitable that a clog will occur. 

Don't get me wrong I love the service calls for toilet clogs. But when I'm asked why it occurs so often, I educate my client that an offset closet flange was used and turn it into a sales opportunity to make a permanent correction. 

In California we are being forced to now supply toilets that use only 1.28 GPF. I understand that we may be heading towards mandated Ultra High Efficiency 0.8 GPF toilets. We already have them offered in our local Lowes made by Niagra as the Stealth model. 

Can we afford to slow the flow of the waste product and water through the first fitting the flush hits on its way through the drain system? We are already having to use the shower and laundry waste water to continue pushing the waste and toilet paper to the street as it is. When the charge of water carrying the waste is slowed, it thins out and does not carry the waste as far down the drain system. 

We affectionately call offset closet flanges "F - Up" flanges and will never use them.


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## supakingDFW (Aug 19, 2014)

A Fast Plumbing said:


> Nobody has mentioned the fact that the fitting creates a hard turn (almost a shelf) and a semi restricted opening within the fitting. This is a natural resting place for fecal matter, toilet paper or other products flushed down toilets to hang up on.


^^^^In Texas and I believe everywhere else, the old style offset flanges with the "shelf" like he mentioned above are illegal. Most manufacturers have redesigned them to eliminate this and create a "full throat opening" to comply with code...I personally don't like using them if possible, but have come across instances where they were necessary unfortunately


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