# Flex shaft 2.0



## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

Skoronesa, I'm afraid I already knew that trick, I even added a handle wheel to my Spartan 1065 "widowmaker" when I had it. I'm more interested in the flex shaft machines while having some 5' cables as a backup for really infested lines. Seems like i could put together a really light setup and maybe downgrade on vehicle.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I'd wait for the flex shaft. Feedback says it's hit or miss and one guy, the head broke off after what 2 month after release.

I would make my own instead.


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## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

Tango said:


> I'd wait for the flex shaft. Feedback says it's hit or miss and one guy, the head broke off after what 2 month after release.
> 
> I would make my own instead.



So about this DIY business... I have 100' of 3/8" cable in pex. It works, but is quite unwieldy in a building. I have some ideas for containing it and have seen some rough ideas of what others have done for a reel. I would appreciate any documents, advice, or crayon art from anyone who can tell me anything more than "muh whacker". I spent hours chainsmoking and scrolling trying to navigate the dead links and cryptic advice on the other forum. Not trying to step on anyone's toes, I just want to diy something that seems like a good tool all around.



Also I'll show you guys my idea for a homemade chainflail/knocker when I get it together a little better.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

gosaka said:


> So about this DIY business... I have 100' of 3/8" cable in pex. It works, but is quite unwieldy in a building. I have some ideas for containing it and have seen some rough ideas of what others have done for a reel. I would appreciate any documents, advice, or crayon art from anyone who can tell me anything more than "muh whacker". I spent hours chainsmoking and scrolling trying to navigate the dead links and cryptic advice on the other forum. Not trying to step on anyone's toes, I just want to diy something that seems like a good tool all around.
> 
> 
> 
> Also I'll show you guys my idea for a homemade chainflail/knocker when I get it together a little better.


I bet you are referring to Rick? We had a thread on that subject and I described the way I'd do it with irrigation tube instead of pex. That's what he uses and to make several lengths, 25, 50, 75 feet.

Don't want to design a reel, just buy one from them or maybe a chinese reel for duct rods?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_4,searchweb201603_53


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm more interested in hearing how these flex shaft would do in the job of clearing blockages inside the house or even a small tree root sewer blockage. I have seen the videos of them descaling cast iron and clearing blockage in small drain lines. I see that with a camera it's an awesome combo but how does it do without a camera? Being that it expands and mainly cleans on the side and not in front of the cable can it actually clear a blockage that is anything more than grease? 

I am waiting for a good deal on a Ridgid k3800 drum machine with 3 different sizes of cable and drums but if the Ridgid k9 flex shaft could do the same job in opening up lines and is both lighter in weight and also leaves less of a mess then great. Now I'm just talking about every day opening of blocked drains and sewers not descaling for lining or anything like that. 

Does anyone think that the flex shaft without a camera would be better than a k3800 for drains or maybe even for sewers better than a general speed rooter 92?

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> I'm more interested in hearing how these flex shaft would do in the job of clearing blockages inside the house or even a small tree root sewer blockage. I have seen the videos of them descaling cast iron and clearing blockage in small drain lines. I see that with a camera it's an awesome combo but how does it do without a camera? Being that it expands and mainly cleans on the side and not in front of the cable can it actually clear a blockage that is anything more than grease?
> 
> I am waiting for a good deal on a Ridgid k3800 drum machine with 3 different sizes of cable and drums but if the Ridgid k9 flex shaft could do the same job in opening up lines and is both lighter in weight and also leaves less of a mess then great. Now I'm just talking about every day opening of blocked drains and sewers not descaling for lining or anything like that.
> 
> ...



The answer is no, flex shaft is just another tool in the set of drain tools. For outside use it could be useful. Rick removes a lot of roots with his contraption from an outside clean out without a camera. For me in a house I'm convinced it would fail miserably.

Ridgid couldn't answer me when I asked if it would go through 5 vent 1 1/2" 90's on a 50' distance. They well damn know it won't do it.

The other issue for optimal results you need to use a camera but who the hell pays for a camera. Not the people around here anyway! You going to charge 335$ just to use the combo on top of the hourly rate? Then how about a 2" pipe, you going to buy a microdrain camera too?


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

The Dane said:


> I'm more interested in hearing how these flex shaft would do in the job of clearing blockages inside the house or even a small tree root sewer blockage. I have seen the videos of them descaling cast iron and clearing blockage in small drain lines. I see that with a camera it's an awesome combo but how does it do without a camera? Being that it expands and mainly cleans on the side and not in front of the cable can it actually clear a blockage that is anything more than grease?
> 
> I am waiting for a good deal on a Ridgid k3800 drum machine with 3 different sizes of cable and drums but if the Ridgid k9 flex shaft could do the same job in opening up lines and is both lighter in weight and also leaves less of a mess then great. Now I'm just talking about every day opening of blocked drains and sewers not descaling for lining or anything like that.
> 
> ...


 It depends on what size lines you'll be working with. I own a k-3800, k-50, k-60, k-7500 and a couple other machines. I find that the sectional machines clean better and have confirmed with my camera. If your goal is to get it clean as possible without jetting I would go with a sectional or flex shaft. With proper procedures there should not be much more of a mess than with a drum.

I also own a 50' long picote flex shaft that was given to me by a guy I sometimes jet for. One of the trainees burnt out the outer layer by overheating it on a job. I was able to salvage a 50' and a 33' foot section of the 100'. it works great for getting rid of roots and grease. I have used it on a few main sewer jobs to unclog and I'd say I prefer to snake first since it will get bogged down if pushed too fast. To be fair, I am running it with a Ridgid 18v octane drill. I'm not sure how much better it would be with the actual picote machine. 

I almost put an order in for one of those Ridgid flex shaft machines but a friend of mine who went to the Wett show said they looked too fragile for heavy duty work. From what I've heard, from people who got one, he was right. If you don't do too much drain cleaning and are mainly going to use it on branch lines you might be ok. I've also heard it's very difficult to take tight bends with them.

If you want similar cleaning performance without the much higher price tag you can try using a chain knocker on a sectional or with a drill. The only problem is that you'll need a minimum of 2" access. The drums spin way too slowly to be as effective. I've actually descaled several 2" cast iron pipes with that setup. Plus it'll take care of light roots as well.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

To continue my mini rant I told the tool store guys to stop pushing machines they have no clue if they are appropriate for our area. They don't have a clue and no feedback . They are the biggest specialized tool store with several drain machines on the floor but every time I order something I'm always the first one in 25 years to buy that item like the k-3800 sink drum, the guide tube, the sonde adapter etc.

I told them I'm sick of tired of buying thousand dollar machines in complete darkness to find out it could be a 4000$ paper weight. Stop reading me the brochure and get some true videos in action from the manufacturers. I believe the drain machine companies do on purpose to hide to see if their equipment are up to par. When is the last time you saw a true video from them clearing a true blockage??

Ridgid is supposed to be in town this thursday for their "road show" and if I don't forget to show up I'll give them a piece of my mind.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

We don't normally have crazy roots here in the sewers but almost all houses have a basement so I was hoping a flex shaft might have been good for the back compared to getting a drum machine in the basement. 

For smaller drain lines I was thinking the flex shaft looked like it is easier to keep clean and has less chance of making a mess. I was also thinking it would be nice to have just 1 machine and cable rather than a machine and 3 different drums with different cable sizes.

I know a flex shaft would really shine if used with a camera but I was thinking it is the same as with drum machines where no one cares to pay for a camera but just wants the line opened up.

Since I'm not a drain only plumber but an all around plumber that does most things I will need just the basics of machines to deal with the few drain calls and can't have all sorts of machines.

It sounds like flex shaft has its place but not as the only machine. I think I might be best off sticking to my plan of a k3800 and a speed rooter. 

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

If you are talking clearing real clogs/roots in 3" and 4" then drum unit for in the house, sectional for outside or for if you really need firepower from in the house you tarp stuff off.


From what I have seen the main drawback of a flexshaft is the lack of flexibility. They will not go through the same fittings for a given total outside diameter vs a cable. Like a 3/8" flexshaft cable plus a pex jacket is 5/8". If you think it will go around 2" 90's like my 5/8" general cable you are fooling yourself.


The drum unit has been around for what? 80 years? The sectional ~100? Just like the pipe wrench we all still use today some things just can't be made that much lighter or easier. Even an aluminum pipe wrench has its drawbacks. A 14" aluminum pipe wrench just isn't as strong as a 14" cast iron. Just like my 5/8" cable vs flex shaft example. Same size, lighter, less strength.


Now if you want to go making a titanium version......


Yes, a drum is heavy, but quite frankly it is the standard for drain cleaning in a house. And it is the standard for a reason. Drain snaking is not an old guys profession. Just like how we don't send our old guys into a crawl space(A real crawlspace, not these 4' tall concrete floored basements) we don't send our old guys to lug around drain cleaning equipment.


If the drum unit is too much for you then go to the gym or do some stretches first. Or hire a young helper. Also, I have no issue keeping things clean and I use mine daily.










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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> If you are talking clearing real clogs/roots in 3" and 4" then drum unit for in the house, sectional for outside or for if you really need firepower from in the house you tarp stuff off.
> 
> 
> From what I have seen the main drawback of a flexshaft is the lack of flexibility. They will not go through the same fittings for a given total outside diameter vs a cable. Like a 3/8" flexshaft cable plus a pex jacket is 5/8". If you think it will go around 2" 90's like my 5/8" general cable you are fooling yourself.
> ...


Now it's not like I make that much of a mess but I do have a habit of also running the cable when pulling it back just to clean a little extra. I put a dropcloth down for the sewer machine but small or big machine I always end up having to clean the cabinet or walls for a little splashing from the cable. 

When it comes to the drum machine being too much for me,  I might not be going to the gym but I'm 6'6" tall and plenty strong but that does not change that I would like to keep my back in good shape too. I know the general speed rooter 92 I am planing on buying is not too bad for weight but weight keeps being in my mind since where I work currently we have the biggest Gorlitz machine with heavy 3/4" cable and I'm pretty sure this is the most heavy machine one can buy.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> We don't normally have crazy roots here in the sewers but almost all houses have a basement so I was hoping a flex shaft might have been good for the back compared to getting a drum machine in the basement.
> 
> For smaller drain lines I was thinking the flex shaft looked like it is easier to keep clean and has less chance of making a mess. I was also thinking it would be nice to have just 1 machine and cable rather than a machine and 3 different drums with different cable sizes.
> 
> ...


I only keep the sink drum in the truck which is used the most often and I also keep the 3/8" drum. It does my laundry lines. It does toilet lines when I find out it's not the toilet but the line. I keep the 1/2" cable drum at home and I pick it up only when I get a real call for it. I used the 1/2" maybe 2-3 times in the last 12 months. I also carry my k-45AF and that too is seldom used now, only twice in the last 12 months. I think I might remove the water ram from the truck, it hasn't been used for a year.

I decline many many calls when the whole basement is clogged. I'm not risking the cable at the 4"x6" pipe. I'm saddened to lose on that kind of money but I'm too afraid to get stuck and have to pay from my own pocket for a dig and a new reno. The other companies make tons of money selling them a repipe. I'm not sure was the scam percentage is though.

My 2 drums makes no mess at all, I always wipe them on the way back.


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

I have 3 different Picote Felx shaft machines:

Picote Super Midi-Miller (1/2 cable x110ft)
Picote Mini-Miller (1/3 cable x 59 ft)
Picote Mini-Cleaner 1/3 cable with flexy sheath x 59 ft)

The Mini cleaner is used for sinks and floor drains. The mini-miller is used to clear interior mainline/branchline blockages. The super midi is the full on mainline cleaner.

The only "traditional" snake I carry is a little handheld for tubs.


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

I am not a fan of the new ridgid flexshaft machines because you have to have one hand on the drill. This makes operating a potential hazard in my opinion.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The Dane said:


> Now it's not like I make that much of a mess but I do have a habit of also running the cable when pulling it back just to clean a little extra. I put a dropcloth down for the sewer machine but small or big machine I always end up having to clean the cabinet or walls for a little splashing from the cable.
> 
> When it comes to the drum machine being too much for me,  I might not be going to the gym but I'm 6'6" tall and plenty strong but that does not change that I would like to keep my back in good shape too. I know the general speed rooter 92 I am planing on buying is not too bad for weight but weight keeps being in my mind since where I work currently we have the biggest Gorlitz machine with heavy 3/4" cable and I'm pretty sure this is the most heavy machine one can buy.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk





You describe the cleanliness situation well. It also sounds like the 92 will be similar in regards to what you can clean while also being significantly lighter.








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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> You describe the cleanliness situation well. It also sounds like the 92 will be similar in regards to what you can clean while also being significantly lighter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's been a few years since I used the speed rooter 92 but compared to the Gorlitz I think the 92 with the drum and 100' of 5/8" cable is close to the weight of just the machine alone with no drum on the Gorlitz.
I'll try and wipe the cable with a rag when pulling back and see if it helps with the mess but I had just thought it might get caught in the cable. I see the flex shaft has its uses like descaling before lining but was hoping it would compete with the drum machines too for opening blockages.

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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

The Dane said:


> skoronesa said:
> 
> 
> > You describe the cleanliness situation well. It also sounds like the 92 will be similar in regards to what you can clean while also being significantly lighter.
> ...


Whenever I use the k-7500 I use the auto feed to retrieve the cable. That allows me to use 2 rags to clean off the cable. I rarely have more than a few drops to clean up. 
You just have to get good quality rags. I've tried those cheap rags they sell at Home Depot and they'll get wrapped up on the cable. They can be used it just is a slower go of it.


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## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

The Dane said:


> It's been a few years since I used the speed rooter 92 but compared to the Gorlitz I think the 92 with the drum and 100' of 5/8" cable is close to the weight of just the machine alone with no drum on the Gorlitz.
> I'll try and wipe the cable with a rag when pulling back and see if it helps with the mess but I had just thought it might get caught in the cable. I see the flex shaft has its uses like descaling before lining but was hoping it would compete with the drum machines too for opening blockages.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk



I am not a scale, but I think it all evens out a bit when you have 100'+ of 5/8" cable. The drum machines all have their pros and cons and I have grown to love and hate every one I have used. If I had my druthers, it would be something like a Spartan 300/ 2001 hybrid with a plastic clamshell over the wire drum holding 5/8 duracable.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

*Flex shaft The Scoop.*


Here’s the scoop you’ve been waiting for. I spent 2 hours of my time and went to see the Ridgid road show at the tool supplier. They had too many sandwiches, I should of taken a second when they told me to grab one for the road but anyways....

I decided to bring my test set up to their tents, I use this set-up to simulate kitchen lines when I try out new machines to see how they behave and to see the issues that rise up from practice sessions. I also asked to try out their microdrain camera, the 2 guys went back to their hotel to go and get it. I finally got the results I needed for the camera to see if it made sense to purchase one but that's another story.


They told me Ridgid bought clog dog, not sure if it’s accurate or not. What I found strange is no one else checked out the flex shaft, cameras, or navitracks while I was there. I tried out the flex shaft, I was pleasantly surprised to see it went through all the bends in my pipes I brought along. Their 2" setup on the wall was unrealistic, too easy. .They asked me if there were that many bends in houses, I said yeah and sometimes more than that. The trick which they didn’t tell me until I wondered why my hands were oily is you have to lube the sheath with vegetable oil. 



*Pro’s for the K9-102 (small flex shaft) 1200$CAD*
-Lightweight
-Easy to feed in the line
-50' length
-Bends easily
-If the end breaks all you have to do is tack weld the cable end and re-attach 
the chains


*Cons*
-The flex cable inside the sheath is a little more than a 1/4" 
-The cable is very very flexible and looks fragile
-You can only use forward, using reverse the cable will unwind.
-You can’t use a lot of torque with your drill or it will snap the cable
-I can see it breaking off leaving the chains inside the pipe. Now you need a 
drum machine with a retriever bit to get it back
-You have to carry a jar of vegetable oil to lube the sheath because you can 
only push it compared to a drum machine where it rotates the cable.
-You’re gloves oily your drill will become oily, your tools get oily etc.



*Pro’s for the K9-204 (Large flex shaft) 1700$CAD*
-Lightweight and easy to bring down and up the stairs in a basement or 
second floor. No more lugging a 200 pound machine ruining carpet or 
hurting your back.
-Reasonable price



*Doubts*
-The shaft is still small and flexible, how much torque can it handle getting 
caught in roots?
-If it’s fragile then a camera would be needed to see where you are going 
and what you are doing.
-Can you safely push a camera and the flex shaft in the same pipe without 
them getting tangled and impossible to get back?


*Would I buy one?* I would not buy the small flex shaft, my k-3800 has the power and has proven itself, I doubt the small flex shaft will manage our pipes with many bends. Unless proven otherwise.

However I could see buying the large flex shaft, it would solve the issue of lugging a huge machine to clear the main line up to the street. It’s economical but I would have to go home and get the chinese camera and include the pricing of the cam and flex shaft in combination. Will it do roots well?

Another issue I wouldn’t build my own because if it gets stuck and I get sued I’ll lose because it’s not approved equipment. I’ll have to pay from my pocket the backhoe, new lawn, new floors. Simple as that. I read a court case like this, the plumber had to pay because he didn’t use the right size cable or bit. The story was a little vague.



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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Ok some pictures of the large Flex Shaft. The unit comes with chains. Carbide lug chains is extra.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I just realized the big flex shaft is suitable for 2-4" pipes which means it won't be good for me after all. I'm not sure if all houses have 6" pipe all the way to the foundation and reduce to 4". I know my house is a 6" outside. That would mean the flex shaft is not the solution.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> I just realized the big flex shaft is suitable for 2-4" pipes which means it won't be good for me after all. I'm not sure if all houses have 6" pipe all the way to the foundation and reduce to 4". I know my house is a 6" outside. That would mean the flex shaft is not the solution.


6" for residential? That seems like way overkill. Around here it's normally always 4" and I think a few might only be 3"

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> 6" for residential? That seems like way overkill. Around here it's normally always 4" and I think a few might only be 3"
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


Yes 6", and don't make me doubt myself, it was like 8 years ago, I connected the 6" clay to my 4" cast when I excavated around the foundation. I remember I had to look at a few places to find a reducer. My house is from 1952. I'm not familiar other than that except this spring when I camera'd a line for someone I was surprised to see 4" up to the street.


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

I assume ridgid will come out with a larger 1/2 inch flexshaft machine for mainlines with 100+ ft sometime in the near future.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Tango, do you have a link to this lawsuit? Is this a canadian specific lawsuit? Always use a sheath between the chains or you'll damage the shaft.


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## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

Tango said:


> Yes 6", and don't make me doubt myself, it was like 8 years ago, I connected the 6" clay to my 4" cast when I excavated around the foundation. I remember I had to look at a few places to find a reducer. My house is from 1952. I'm not familiar other than that except this spring when I camera'd a line for someone I was surprised to see 4" up to the street.


I see many houses from that period with 6" stubbed off of city main, meaning pipe goes 3" cast to 4" clay with last 10' or so being 6".


Has anyone seen what the inside of the Flexshaft machines look like? I am curious how the shaft connects to the drill adapter part. I am also wondering if the reel holds the cable like the Renssi and other machines, i.e. in one layer loop to prevent tangling.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

gosaka said:


> I see many houses from that period with 6" stubbed off of city main, meaning pipe goes 3" cast to 4" clay with last 10' or so being 6".
> 
> 
> Has anyone seen what the inside of the Flexshaft machines look like? I am curious how the shaft connects to the drill adapter part. I am also wondering if the reel holds the cable like the Renssi and other machines, i.e. in one layer loop to prevent tangling.


All you have to do is contact a local ridgid rep for a demonstration. Then you can open it up and take as many pictures you want.


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## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

https://commercial.lifa-air.com/gb/en/products
Thinking emoji.
Looks pretty similar to some other Finnish options


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

There are many people breaking the shaft on the K9's. Most seem to be breaking on the dry end. Ridgid is giving out one new replacement cable/shaft per unit so you know these are weak.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

Chinesium cables.. course you knew it wasn't going to last...

If the machine binds the cable it's going to flip just like any other cable, but a normal cable machine spins at 1/4 the speed if that so it happens that much faster..

Slow and steady like drilling steel


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## Fixture.units (Sep 27, 2020)

Standard Drain said:


> I am not a fan of the new ridgid flexshaft machines because you have to have one hand on the drill. This makes operating a potential hazard in my opinion.


How is that a hazard? I ask this as someone who owns the 102 and 204. I haven't found any hazards yet


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Fixture.units said:


> How is that a hazard? I ask this as someone who owns the 102 and 204. I haven't found any hazards yet


im use to wresting with a big snake everytime I take a piss...


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

FIXTURE.UNIT


An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. https://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> im use to wresting with a big snake everytime I take a piss...



They should probably add some dividers in the ymca bathroom then so you can piss in peace! Some guys are just way to foward!!:vs_laugh::devil3:


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Sent ours in to get fixed.
Sombody must of ran it in reverse or did somthing drill jams after 2 seconds, and the wire cable was kinked on a 90 degree angle.
I still like the k50 for everyday light blockages


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## Fixture.units (Sep 27, 2020)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> FIXTURE.UNIT
> 
> 
> An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. https://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.
> ...



I'll admit I did see it. I just haven't taken the time to do it yet. I'll get after it. Thanks.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> They should probably add some dividers in the ymca bathroom then so you can piss in peace! Some guys are just way to foward!!:vs_laugh::devil3:
> 
> 
> .


nah, they just need to lower the urinals, the water can be cold at times...:devil3: :devil3:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> nah, they just need to lower the urinals, the water can be cold at times...


Even if the urinals are lower and harder to reach the "bears" are still going to give you swirlies!:vs_laugh:




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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Even if the urinals are lower and harder to reach the "bears" are still going to give you swirlies!:vs_laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you missed the point, it went right over your head...


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