# I'm gunna go to hell for this



## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Got a call today to get a rental snake unstuck, told the guy 150 an hour. Got out there and he was already pissed, told me he had been stuck for 4 hours. He had a general 5/8 drum machine and was stuck in a large root ball using a spiral root saw maybe 2 1/2" or so. I got it out in 10 minutes. So far so good he was quite happy with me so I offered to run the line for $230 (our flat rate for a 75' line) and ditch the 150.00 for getting the snake out. Immediately the mood changed he started yelling at me about how much of a ripoff I was for wanting so much to clean the line. Woah. So I told him he owed me 150.00 then and he started yelling at me about charging him a full hour for 10 minutes, then he tried to give me 50 in cash to lie on my paperwork. I sighed and told him I have too many mouths to feed to risk my job over something like that. He calmed down a bit but told me it was still a ripoff. I told him "if I was a ripoff I would leave the cable in the line and told you your line was going to have to be dug up and replaced" he scoffed and said "whatever" then the rat ******* asked me how to clear his line. If he was poor and kind, I would have dropped the 1065 and cleaned his line for the 150 and left without a blink, he had the money and he was a real jackass so I picked up the funnel auger he was given with the machine and told him to take it and go balls to the wall just jeep running the machine when he hits that blockage and don't back off and hush that cable as hard as he can. He hasn't called me up cussing up a storm yet, so maybe he didn't take my advice. I feel kinda bad, I'm usually a pretty nice guy.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

When and if he calls back stuck, what will you do?......Clue him in on what bit or let him stew?.......:laughing:


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

What a **** nut


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> When and if he calls back stuck, what will you do?......Clue him in on what bit or let him stew?.......:laughing:


I'll let him know that he was screwed either way. The blades were all severely undersized and judging by how the spiral rootsaw was hung up its too big of a root mass to clean with his selection. He had a 2" clog chopper, an 1 1/2" pear, a 3" funnel auger, a 2" grease u cutter, a spear head, and the root saw. He basically has a "lets get stuck so we can sell a sewer" setup.

Im thinking rental stores would be a good place to advertise. I enjoy the fight too. Maybe when I start my own business I'll set up a referal program with the guys at the rental stores. Get some business cards made up that have a spot to write referal info on it and I'll shoot them $10 or so when a paying costumer shows me the card. Just some ideas.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I honestly like those types of calls. In most cases it's proof positive as why we charge what we do. 

Although I did get my Azz handed to me about a year ago thinking I could out shine this handy man dude. I got there and he had a super vee stuck in a floor sink. It was a pain, but I got it out in time for him to return it to the rental shop. Same deal, offered to clean it for the regular price. Ended up getting my M100 stuck. Come to find out the owner knew the line was collapsed to begin with. So I gave a quote with the aggravation/stupidity upcharge. Never heard back from them.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OpenSights said:


> I honestly like those types of calls. In most cases it's proof positive as why we charge what we do.
> 
> Although I did get my Azz handed to me about a year ago thinking I could out shine this handy man dude. I got there and he had a super vee stuck in a floor sink. It was a pain, but I got it out in time for him to return it to the rental shop. Same deal, offered to clean it for the regular price. Ended up getting my M100 stuck. Come to find out the owner knew the line was collapsed to begin with. So I gave a quote with the aggravation/stupidity upcharge. Never heard back from them.














I had an older service manager years ago who taught me to ask a lot of questions to the house-holder. Ie: Have you had plumbers out here before with regard to this drain line? When did you first notice a problem? What was thrown down the line? etc... He told me "Information is a powerful tool." That was one of his sayings. So I try to do the same today on service calls when appropriate; asking questions.


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## Johnny Canuck (Feb 24, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> I had an older service manager years ago who taught me to ask a lot of questions to the house-holder. Ie: Have you had plumbers out here before with regard to this drain line? When did you first notice a problem? What was thrown down the line? etc... He told me "Information is a powerful tool." That was one of his sayings. So I try to do the same today on service calls when appropriate; asking questions.


I was taught this too


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Anytime I go to a new to me house the owner, or tenant, gets the usual questions. It took some time to figure out how to "dumb down" the questions. I don't mean that in a bad way, my roofer and electrician do the same with me. Of course when talking to a tenant about plumbing issues is always risky business.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

The ho probably didn't have money or else he would have hired someone from the git. I rarely go out when I get the "I rented a machine and...." call. The ho displayed all the signs of a middle class man who is broke right now.

Contrary to what the boss says, we don't have to take crap from anyone and I don't. Granted, there are times I walk on eggshells until the check clears.............

Hell is for homeowners who diss us, not visy versy.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Your prices are give away already. Customers like him will never be happy unless you are paying him for the privilege of working on his plumbing. You need to raise your prices by 30% just to be in business 5 years from now. 50% if you want to have some kind of standard of living.


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

I'm an employee at a flat rate shop, we do very well. For our area we are priced just right. 40 years in business and 15 drain trucks on the road, as well as 3 master plumbers and 2 journeyman plumbers says so. We do alright that day I grossed 1800 for our company.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

cable or root said:


> I'm an employee at a flat rate shop, we do very well. For our area we are priced just right. 40 years in business and 15 drain trucks on the road, as well as 3 master plumbers and 2 journeyman plumbers says so. We do alright that day I grossed 1800 for our company.


So the 150 per hour is a get your cable out price everything else is flat rate?


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Well, ok semi flat rate. Plumbing (which I prefer not to do even though I have a little more knowledge than I let on, is T&M) sewer lines are charged based on length in 5' increments whether it takes 1 hour or 6 hours, it doesn't matter 230 for a 75' line for instance. All secondary lines are another rate, but all the same (stool auger and a kitchen sink cost the same 5 minutes or 3 hours doesn't matter) There is also a flat rate to remove and reset a stool. The only thing I do on an hourly basis is getting other people's cables out. $150 an hour so if it takes me an hour and 15 minutes to get some poor *******s cable out it costs them $300. (Its never taken me that long unless its my cable which doesn't count, when I get stuck, I do it right lol.) But I think that keeps things pretty fair. That's how it's done here with all the major companies at least. So not 100% flat rate but my typical jobs are.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

cable or root said:


> Well, ok semi flat rate. Plumbing (which I prefer not to do even though I have a little more knowledge than I let on, is T&M) sewer lines are charged based on length in 5' increments whether it takes 1 hour or 6 hours, it doesn't matter 230 for a 75' line for instance. All secondary lines are another rate, but all the same (stool auger and a kitchen sink cost the same 5 minutes or 3 hours doesn't matter) There is also a flat rate to remove and reset a stool. The only thing I do on an hourly basis is getting other people's cables out. $150 an hour so if it takes me an hour and 15 minutes to get some poor *******s cable out it costs them $300. (Its never taken me that long unless its my cable which doesn't count, when I get stuck, I do it right lol.) But I think that keeps things pretty fair. That's how it's done here with all the major companies at least. So not 100% flat rate but my typical jobs are.


What gets done for 230? Does that include a camera or just rod till the water drops?


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Unclog1776 said:


> What gets done for 230? Does that include a camera or just rod till the water drops?


2 full passes to the city main with the largest blade I can cram into the line(more if needed), and a 1 year warranty against tree roots (holding no issues). 6 month warranty for lines with excessive roots, semi bad offset, or if the sewer is trapped by the city. no warranty for orangeburg, defective sdr35, no cleanout, broken, that sort of thing. As long as there is nothing wrong with the line they don't get cameraed. There are only 2 cameras in our company and they are only carried by salesmen. The camera fee is 75 if the line was cleaned by us (within a month) otherwise the price is a little more than a secondary line. If a repair is sold, then the cost of the camera goes towards the repair. I only recommend a camera on an as needed basis. If the line is offset, broken, no cleanout, improper cleanout (like a tile hole with a pipe shoved on top of it) or orangeburg. I've heard quite a few times from our salesmen "how did you get through that" :laughing:

So the short answer to your question is no and no. I dont just drop the water and leave I actually like doing my job the right way, but no they usually don't get the camera either, if they do they pay for it.

I wish it was a little different, charging for a camera is fine, don't get me wrong, but there's enough money to put a camera on every truck. When I worked at roto rooter for my first year every sewer I ran had to be cameraed (for free). This was to ensure 2 things. 1: no roots left behind. 2 I learned alot. I learned how to feel the difference from an offset and roots, what a buried tile hole felt like, what a trap felt like, what a cavern felt like, what orangeburg feels like and so forth. I learned how to visualize what my cable was doing. Its why I'm so damn good at what I do.(yes ya'll will learn that I am a little arrogant)


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

cable or root said:


> 2 full passes to the city main with the largest blade I can cram into the line(more if needed), and a 1 year warranty against tree roots (holding no issues). 6 month warranty for lines with excessive roots, semi bad offset, or if the sewer is trapped by the city. no warranty for orangeburg, defective sdr35, no cleanout, broken, that sort of thing. As long as there is nothing wrong with the line they don't get cameraed. There are only 2 cameras in our company and they are only carried by salesmen. The camera fee is 75 if the line was cleaned by us (within a month) otherwise the price is a little more than a secondary line. If a repair is sold, then the cost of the camera goes towards the repair. I only recommend a camera on an as needed basis. If the line is offset, broken, no cleanout, improper cleanout (like a tile hole with a pipe shoved on top of it) or orangeburg. I've heard quite a few times from our salesmen "how did you get through that" :laughing: So the short answer to your question is no and no. I dont just drop the water and leave I actually like doing my job the right way, but no they usually don't get the camera either, if they do they pay for it. I wish it was a little different, charging for a camera is fine, don't get me wrong, but there's enough money to put a camera on every truck. When I worked at roto rooter for my first year every sewer I ran had to be cameraed (for free). This was to ensure 2 things. 1: no roots left behind. 2 I learned alot. I learned how to feel the difference from an offset and roots, what a buried tile hole felt like, what a trap felt like, what a cavern felt like, what orangeburg feels like and so forth. I learned how to visualize what my cable was doing. Its why I'm so damn good at what I do.(yes ya'll will learn that I am a little arrogant)


I like that. Do you guys sell a lot of repairs?


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

Yes our salesmen are very good at what they do. We have a licensed drainlayer and equipment operator. That's all he does is dig. He stays very busy. Sometimes too busy. Its not uncommon for a water service replacement to be scheduled a week out. The way we do things are very efficient, the owners of the company are geniuses business wise.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

cable or root said:


> ...That's how it's done here with all the major companies at least. So not 100% flat rate but my typical jobs are.


Where are you?


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## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

The midwest.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Sounds like a good setup to learn from. Price sounds on the high end for my area, generally matched with the big guys. The hole punchers really mess the whole thing up. A guy I know, when he does show up, gets the water to drain and walks. I've been told it a good day if he even has a cutter on the end of a cable. It's what $85 and no warranty will get ya. Problem is he's quite busy as many people just can't or won't pay to have it done right.


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