# What are you using?



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

What are you using?

We install quite a few of these. Wolverine Brass. Top quality stuff. Just put this one in yesterday. I prefer to use a slow closing ballcock, plus it sure is nice looking in there. On a budget job, I'll use a Pro 45B (brass shank) 

Customer had real bad water hammer, ever since her husband put in a Fluidmaster. Master bath, right off the bedroom. 

She said she saw the schmo on this old house put some "round ball thingy's" under the bathtub. . I told her I can fix her problem without installing water hammer arrestors that will leak later. :thumbup:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Pro 45B (brass shank). I have never had a single callback yet and I have put cases of them in over the past few years.
I am very happy with the product.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

oops, delete, wrong thread.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Just introduced to the brass shank from wolv. its great. The all brass ballcock is to expensive for my customers, and not really worth it in my opinion.:no:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Pro45B - using exclusively for three years - no callbacks!

WB - it does look nice, but our customers aren't going to pay for it.


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

I have always worked for cheap-os' with cheap-o customers. It was all just standard FM's.Lots of problems with the plastic threads. Even on new construction. 

Now I love the Pro45B ~ and feel that a company that doesn't see the benefit in buying quality, well just is not for me. 

That WV.- looks great and sure it is well worth the money for the right customer.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

We've used those WB's for many, many years.

Good, but not cheap, ballcock.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I use 400a's by fluidmaster. The only problems i have had that causes a callback is a piece if trash getting under the seal and causing it not to shut off completely. I cant say i have ever had a call back because one was leaking on the floor that I had installed unless it was 15 yrs ago and they killed it with bleach tabs.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

no problems with pro 45


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*fluid masters are the best*

We have put in literally thousands and thousands of fluid masters with never a single problem... 

the 400s are real easy to repair or change out..

I have not even seen a brass ballcock used in our area in decades..

changed out a plastic one with a ball yesterday that was hammering the whole house....


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Fluidmaster pro 45


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Rarely ever a problem with a fluidmaster. They are almost too good. They make one called a whisper that works well for toilets prone to hammering. Just a well designed product. 

I gotta admit tho, I have seen some 40+ year old brass ballcocks still kicking.


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

I used the WB for years but as money got tight so did customers.But as for class and quietness the old WB cant be beat


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Fluidmaster 400A never ever had a problem.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Burlington 20A. Costs me about $24.00. Minor tank rebuild is $199.00 and consists of new flapper, new 20A, new chrome supply. NO PLASTIC ANYWHERE ON MY REBUILDS! Offer the option of adding new quarter turn stop and heavy duty wc handle for $269.00,


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I'll second that statment.



service guy said:


> Pro 45B (brass shank). I have never had a single callback yet and I have put cases of them in over the past few years.
> I am very happy with the product.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

A pro45 (B) will not hammer. They have a soft close. A standard 400A will hammer.



Master Mark said:


> We have put in literally thousands and thousands of fluid masters with never a single problem...
> 
> the 400s are real easy to repair or change out..
> 
> ...


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Those 2 ballcocks are great for an option.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

I have never had a problem with any fluidmaster i installed. But just curious, What does one of those brass ballcocks from WB cost?


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

folks carry pictures, plastic and the brass, it sells itself every time and they will pay for the upgrade.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

smellslike$tome said:


> Burlington 20A. Costs me about $24.00. Minor tank rebuild is $199.00 and consists of new flapper, new 20A, new chrome supply. NO PLASTIC ANYWHERE ON MY REBUILDS! Offer the option of adding new quarter turn stop and heavy duty wc handle for $269.00,


 Does Birmingham let you have a show fee on top of the level 4 price?


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> I have never had a problem with any fluidmaster i installed. But just curious, What does one of those brass ballcocks from WB cost?


around $19.00 for the 12"


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

stillaround said:


> does Birmingham Let You Have A Show Fee On Top Of The Level 4 Price?


$59.00


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Protech said:


> A pro45 (B) will not hammer. They have a soft close. A standard 400A will hammer.


The Pro45's are different inside? Didn't know that. I know the 400A's get a bit snappy sometimes when the seal gets old. Don't the 45's use the same seal?


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I use 400a's by fluidmaster. The only problems i have had that causes a callback is a piece if trash getting under the seal and causing it not to shut off completely. I cant say i have ever had a call back because one was leaking on the floor that I had installed unless it was 15 yrs ago and they killed it with bleach tabs.


We have installed WB Ballcocks off and on for over 40 years, but becasue of the price and we didn't think people would pay more for quality and started using the FM in the late 80's.

We eventually wised up and found out people would pay more for a quality product and went back almost exclusivley using WB in the late 90's.

The only time we dont use the WB is in certain water closets and then it is either the 1B1X or PRO 45B


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

The WB is in the catalog for around $25.00. 

I do agree that the PRO 45B is a pretty good product. I do use them from time to time. 400A's are junk, IMO. 

I use the WB when the job warrants, you can tell when you need a cheaper alternative. If I'm not sure, I lay them both on the kitchen table. 99.9% of the time, its the WB. 

One advantage of the PRO45B is that it will alert a customer if the flush valve is passing water, and the tank is refilling. If one's hearing is not so good, one might not know it untill they get their water bill, or the septic backs up!


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Associated Plum said:


> We have installed WB Ballcocks off and on for over 40 years, but becasue of the price and we didn't think people would pay more for quality and started using the FM in the late 80's.
> 
> We eventually wised up and found out people would pay more for a quality product and went back almost exclusivley using WB in the late 90's.
> 
> The only time we dont use the WB is in certain water closets and then it is either the 1B1X or PRO 45B


 A plumbing co here uses wolverine brass.......I cant tell you how many of those damn things I've taken out. Its ALOT.....at one time we had a 50 gal drum almost full of them. Sold them for scrap. There not as good as you think they are. The plumber who uses them wouldn't ever go back when the customer called to say..."Its singing to me" talking about the slow fill but never turn off syndrome. So his customers were calling us because we had the same first digits of the phone number,I guess they figured we were close by. I use to rip the wolverine guy when he called our office just for fun about it. I use alot of wolverine brass stuff...just not the ballcocks. These were new ballcocks too....most under a year or two old.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm not sure what is different about them but the pro45 series does shut off softer for sure. the next time your doing a dual rebuild put a 400A in one and a pro 45 in the other. You'll hear the difference for sure.



futz said:


> The Pro45's are different inside? Didn't know that. I know the 400A's get a bit snappy sometimes when the seal gets old. Don't the 45's use the same seal?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I can't even begin to tell how many 400A's I've installed since 2002. At least 24 cases. Sometimes I'd buy a case a month...plenty enough by me.


No callbacks at all, no problems. Not even wearing out yet. :blink:

Everything you see in Kohler and American Standard toilets these days are the 400A. I trust the same brand the mfgs. are sticking in millions of them.

But the smartvalve from AS? Somebody should of been hooked to a bumper and dragged like a man in georgia. 


Don't have too much positive to say about Korky fill valves in Toto toilets either. My number one callbacks are those quiet valves screwing up, bobbing in the water when it fills. Retarded. Then they sell the fix...??? WTF? FIX THE DAMN THING FROM THE GO :furious:

If a 400A is water hammering = high water pressure most times. Then I sell that cure, not a symptom fix.


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## Flyin Brian (Aug 22, 2009)

this will produce this..(old 200a)so i settle for the 400a


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## Flyin Brian (Aug 22, 2009)

400a


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Hey Brian.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The 400a is a good valve but the pro45 (b) is even better.



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I can't even begin to tell how many 400A's I've installed since 2002. At least 24 cases. Sometimes I'd buy a case a month...plenty enough by me.
> 
> 
> No callbacks at all, no problems. Not even wearing out yet. :blink:
> ...


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## Song Dog (Jun 12, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> Burlington 20A. Costs me about $24.00. Minor tank rebuild is $199.00 and consists of new flapper, new 20A, new chrome supply. NO PLASTIC ANYWHERE ON MY REBUILDS! Offer the option of adding new quarter turn stop and heavy duty wc handle for $269.00,


Pretty much the same here but with WB Adjustable fillvalve. We give the option of Plastic (WB Hush Valve) for $173 or Brass (WB Adjustable Fill Valve) for $233 both comes with new water supply, and flapper. People going with brass is about 1/2. So the myth of people won't pay for it is not the case, its what they want. People will pay for what they want (quality and service) no matter what it is.
Standard Toilet Total Rebuild (plastic) $320, Elite Total Toilet Rebuild (Brass) $423 (fillvalve, water supply, shut off, flush valve, and tank to bowl) when I give those 2 options I also give a option of new toilet. 
I have put alot of both in and it has been great for both parties. 
Yes, brass costs more but I haven't really seen anyone turn away from it due to price, even in the large rural area that we service.

BTW-Nice looking install on the WB

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

i put that wb hush valve in my house, freebie from the phcc show, and it's a pieceof crap. never heard a "hush" anything that loud. i'll stick with the fluidmasters.


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## Song Dog (Jun 12, 2008)

Yep, I wouldn't call it quit either. But I do like it, so far.

In Christ,

Song Dog


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