# Delta DST ,, got me again



## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

DAMN new Delta got me TWICE ,,, The alleged "perfect cartridge " has now let me down twice on a total of only 4 that i've installed ! The rep tells me " We have shipped out THOUSANDS and not had ANY trouble " Well,, when it drips AND won't come on sometimes ,,,, THAT'S TROUBLE !!!!

Put in a 470 DST in May ,, it never has really shut off too well and now it leaks like crazy , when i turn it to full on ,, it barely trickles !!

SSSOOOOO The homeowner wants it GONE and a new kohler ( 10433 ss forte )

at a cost of $225 FOR FREE !!! Gotta keep her happy ,,, GREAT neighborhood of mine and I want to keep ALL of them HAPPY  

Thanks new Delta ,,, POS !!!! :furious::furious:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Don't tell TM he owns stock in Delta.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Don't tell TM he owns stock in Delta.


 I have quite a bit invested in the older style delta's that are all brass and copper. Looks like its a better investment than i had originally thought.:thumbsup:
I'm nobodys whore....i call it like i see it with any product.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Did I mention Delta SUcks?

I cant find my Delta sucks post. Did it get removed?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Did I mention Delta SUcks?
> 
> I cant find my Delta sucks post. Did it get removed?


 Moen tub/shower valves suck compared to Delta's. There handles look stupid.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Moen tub/shower valves suck compared to Delta's. There handles look stupid.



how dare you, you summ um a bit, hey look, a Coors light tall. Later.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Delta has been churning out a crap product for years, Moen isn't much better, but repairs on Moen are a bit easier than they are on Delta, I much prefer repairs on Chicago or Grohe.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Delta has been churning out a crap product for years, Moen isn't much better, but repairs on Moen are a bit easier than they are on Delta, I much prefer repairs on Chicago or Grohe.


yeah quadraturn..The biggest POS ever built. Delta fine if they are maintained.Mine are 10 years old and haven't been touch except before i installed them i greased all the retainer nuts and set screws. The problem with grohe is some of their products have too many screens and filters that catch everything and anything resulting in poor flow. I've worked on all the common brands and delta is the easiest to repair if maintained properly and serviced. The only problems delta have are stuck retainer nuts and set screws...and as i pointed out thats avoidable with alittle grease. The rest are 2 minute repairs.:boxing::gun_bandana::tank::drink:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Delta has been churning out a crap product for years, Moen isn't much better, but repairs on Moen are a bit easier than they are on Delta, I much prefer repairs on Chicago or Grohe.



Chicago push style handles on the Commercial faucets, I have a lot of problems with those in all the walgreen's Drug stores here. They all squeal like crazy on the hot side. Some of these faucets are less than 6 months old. What you know about that 5 toe KTS?


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

I usually brag on Delta but just this past Monday I installed a model 400 on a kitchen sink and when I tested it out, the flow from the spout would still run when you use the spray. I opened up the faucet and the darn thing was missing the diverter. Either someone robbed it at the supply house or Jose at the factory forgot to put it in their. Will cost me another trip.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Sure delta made a big mistake changing a great product. I have also had a problem with the new style........I WILL be contacting my rep for free stuff to cover my time. If I get any lip....it will be the last one i install of the new type. I'm already gonna fire him up as it is now.....i dont want free stuff i really want a good product...if they cant supply me that then i will find a new friend to install.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Sure delta made a big mistake changing a great product. I have also had a problem with the new style........I WILL be contacting my rep for free stuff to cover my time. If I get any lip....it will be the last one i install of the new type. I'm already gonna fire him up as it is now.....i dont want free stuff i really want a good product...if they cant supply me that then i will find a new friend to install.


TM ,, That is EXACTLY what happened yesterday !!! I RAISED THE DEAD with some phone hollerin ' !!!! Woopy Do ,, they are going to send me some free new DST cartridges  . Ya know ,,, ya TRY to be loyal to a company or product ,,,, then this kind of thing happens ! WTF is it all coming to ??


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Chicago push style handles on the Commercial faucets, I have a lot of problems with those in all the walgreen's Drug stores here. They all squeal like crazy on the hot side. Some of these faucets are less than 6 months old. What you know about that 5 toe KTS?


Those Chicago plastic push cartridges are terrible, one tiny bit of sediment in them and they refuse to work right, they never should have went away from the brass cartridges with the metal dashpots.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Delta sucks. Their monitor shower valves suck. There single handle ball and cup faucets suck (all of them) and the new diamond seal sucks. Did I mention that delta sucks?


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

Bad memories, one builder wanted all Delta and all the shower valves were Monitors I believe. Nothing but trouble. From what I have dealt with Moen still gives me the least headaches on install, service and dealing with reps.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Delta sucks. Their monitor shower valves suck. There single handle ball and cup faucets suck (all of them) and the new diamond seal sucks. Did I mention that delta sucks?


 What sucks about them Protech. I have about 8 of them in my home for the last 9 years and no problems,not even a drip. Maybe i got the last 8 good ones?:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

bigdaddyrob said:


> Bad memories, one builder wanted all Delta and all the shower valves were Monitors I believe. Nothing but trouble. From what I have dealt with Moen still gives me the least headaches on install, service and dealing with reps.


 What problems did you have or did the guy installing have no clue?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

spraying out of the packing seal on the ball and cup style when pushed to the outer edges.

They all use 3/8" copper water ways that will get twisted off when the DIY/handihack tries to do a rebuild (that could be viewed as a plus though).

Plastic bodied diamond seal faucet, enough said.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ive had no problem with the monitors and have installed a lot. I like the 10000 r.i. valve.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Ive had no problem with the monitors and have installed a lot. I like the 10000 r.i. valve.


 

I'll be damned! We agree on something! :thumbsup:


Last year I started a thread on Ridgid.com that was found by Delta corporate, which led to being contacted by my rep along with some higher up from Maryland. 


I've been low key, waiting for threads like these to start popping up because I knew my first impression of this move by Delta, was a bad one.

I've got a few of these new models out in my cloak of responsibility now and I find it unsettling.

I'm going to get paid big bucks to install those one-touch faucets as well. Those are crazy and I still haven't found out the answer behind what doesn't make that a cross connection between hot and cold with the faucet open, sensor shutting down the flow.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Protech said:


> *spraying out of the packing seal on the ball and cup style when pushed to the outer edges.*
> 
> They all use 3/8" copper water ways that will get twisted off when the DIY/handihack tries to do a rebuild (that could be viewed as a plus though).
> 
> Plastic bodied diamond seal faucet, enough said.


 

You have to replace the camber washer, the ball assembly always when it is a plastic ball. 

On the older, there's a camber adjustment ring that will both stop leaks like you mentioned along with stop a leak through the spout sometimes.


The 3/8" copper tubes was I call, "you should know that when you're twisting the entire body, it's time to stop and call a plumber" routine.

If I really want to lay blame, it's the installing plumber, every damn time for not putting 2 pennies worth of grease on that bonnet nut.

No new construction plumbers do that, they don't care after money is in the pocket. That's why I have a job. Grease solves that issue completely.


The DST-Diamond Seal Technology is what it is....but it's the following of numerous other products, namely Wolverine Brass and their cartridges, kohler as well. 

I can go right down that list. They did it to make more money on the part, plain and simple. Dirt/debris and it's toast. No more simple fixes because they figured out they cannot make money per item on seat cups and springs.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Exactly there was nothing wrong with the old delta's that alittle grease wouldn't prevent. Most people do not know how to repair faucets properly.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

OK, someone answer this. I just got in from installing a Delta 2 hdl. lav. w/ mpu. WHAT THE CRAP IS THE THREADED TP MADE OF! Is it stainless? Went around it 500 times w/ tubing cutters, then nawed through it with a new bi-metal blade and tore 1/2 the teeth off. What are we going to cut these with. Yours truely..Rickey


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> OK, someone answer this. I just got in from installing a Delta 2 hdl. lav. w/ mpu. WHAT THE CRAP IS THE THREADED TP MADE OF! Is it stainless? Whent around it 500 times w/ tubing cutters, then nawed through it with a new bi-metal blade and tore 1/2 the teeth off. What are we going to cut these with. Yours truely..Rickey


 Its brass on mine. 17ga


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Its brass on mine. 17ga


These were 18 ga something. I installed 2 Moen lav faucets earlier today and made the comment " Why are the using brushed nickle on tp" I didn't have to cut them. This was the same tp with the Delta.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> What sucks about them Protech. I have about 8 of them in my home for the last 9 years and no problems,not even a drip. Maybe i got the last 8 good ones?:laughing:


 Love the Delta single handle faucets withe the stainless ball. Change the seats and springs every 6-10 years and they last quite some time. Also change the gasket that holds the ball in. On the kitchen faucets the o rings need replacement at about the same time. As far as mid range faucets go, I love all older Delta faucets.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I gotta agree on the grease !!! I'm a grease freak on ANY new or rebuild ,,,, figure it's most likly me coming back --- SO MAKE IT RIGHT !!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

slickrick said:


> OK, someone answer this. I just got in from installing a Delta 2 hdl. lav. w/ mpu. WHAT THE CRAP IS THE THREADED TP MADE OF! Is it stainless? Went around it 500 times w/ tubing cutters, then nawed through it with a new bi-metal blade and tore 1/2 the teeth off. What are we going to cut these with. Yours truely..Rickey


 Dont you have the special power tool adapter?:laughing::jester:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Dont you have the special power tool adapter?:laughing::jester:


If someone would tell me what I'm cutting, I will get one.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Rough in a little lower and use an ext tp if necessary. Thats my advise for the day.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Rough in a little lower and use an ext tp if necessary. Thats my advise for the day.


Good advice for the future, not so much for the past...


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

I have no problem cutting the tailpiece with a #15 rigid tubing cutter. Don't know why you were having trouble.
Btw, had a builder that rung off his delta shower valve trying to replace the cups and springs. He didn't want to tear out the tile for me to replace it unless it was a last resort. Brick was on other side. So I had him buy another valve just like it and I managed to unsolder the old assembly and solder in the new one. All 3, 3/8 copper tubes at once. He was amazed. So it CAN be done.
P.S. Did I mention I love Delta?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Plasticman said:


> I have no problem cutting the tailpiece with a #15 rigid tubing cutter. Don't know why you were having trouble.
> Btw, had a builder that rung off his delta shower valve trying to replace the cups and springs. He didn't want to tear out the tile for me to replace it unless it was a last resort. Brick was on other side. So I had him buy another valve just like it and I managed to unsolder the old assembly and solder in the new one. All 3, 3/8 copper tubes at once. He was amazed. So it CAN be done.
> P.S. Did I mention I love Delta?


 Those tubes are brazed to the body.


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## longplumb (Nov 15, 2009)

Do not like to use anything other than Delta. I agree that you need to grease. When I have to repair one I make sure to replace all parts while I have the faucet apart. Moens are ok but in our area we have very hard water and can make that cartridge hard to get out. When it comes to pulling a cartridge it is very tough unless you have the Moen cartridge tool. I have had my feet against the wall and pulling on the cartridge before to get it out. But once again, this is where a little grease put on at installation would have been nice.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

slickrick said:


> OK, someone answer this. I just got in from installing a Delta 2 hdl. lav. w/ mpu. WHAT THE CRAP IS THE THREADED TP MADE OF! Is it stainless? Went around it 500 times w/ tubing cutters, then nawed through it with a new bi-metal blade and tore 1/2 the teeth off. What are we going to cut these with. Yours truely..Rickey


 
chrome plated brass. maybe you need to replace your cutting wheel.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> chrome plated brass. maybe you need to replace your cutting wheel.


If it's chrome plated brass I will kiss your a$$.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

This TP has a welded seam.. Buy extra brass threaded TPs while you can and throw these away...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

FYI. Delta RP26533 pop-up assembly has SS threaded TP. Cali. lead ban.
The Moen I installed had the same TP.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

slickrick said:


> This TP has a welded seam.. Buy extra brass threaded TPs while you can and throw these away...


The Taile Piece was welded to the popup? It must be something new.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> The Taile Piece was welded to the popup? It must be something new.


Follow along  . I called Delta this morning, Due to the lead ban, the TPs are going to be made of stainless steel instead of chrome plated brass. The welded seem is visible on the inside of the TP.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

slickrick said:


> Follow along  . I called Delta this morning, Due to the lead ban, the TPs are going to be made of stainless steel instead of chrome plated brass. The welded seem is visible on the inside of the TP.


 
hmm, I thought the lead ban was only on parts that would convey water that may be consumed. Am I wrong ? I though thats why it didn't effect the shower valve bodies.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> hmm, I thought the lead ban was only on parts that would convey water that may be consumed. Am I wrong ? I though thats why it didn't effect the shower valve bodies.


 maybe they are trying to protect the worker when he cuts it from the lead exposure. I wouldn't doubt it. crazyness


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm talking right out of the box.



TheMaster said:


> Exactly there was nothing wrong with the old delta's that alittle grease wouldn't prevent. Most people do not know how to repair faucets properly.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Protech said:


> I'm talking right out of the box.


 Snugging the plastic retaing ring about a half turn will take care of it. Ya, you shouldn't have to do this with a faucet out of the box, but quick and simple none the less. I can't remember ever seeing a new Delta leak that way, maybe just a bad batch.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Snugging the plastic retaing ring about a half turn will take care of it. Ya, you shouldn't have to do this with a faucet out of the box, but quick and simple none the less. I can't remember ever seeing a new Delta leak that way, maybe just a bad batch.


I know whats the best after repairing everything out there is mass and Delta wins hands down with product and support. Over the course of over 20 years I have maybe installed 2 defective ones that had to be totally replaced. Thats good enough for me. :thumbsup:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I know whats the best after repairing everything out there is mass and Delta wins hands down with product and support. Over the course of over 20 years I have maybe installed 2 defective ones that had to be totally replaced. Thats good enough for me. :thumbsup:


Dornbracht, Grohe, and Jado are all superior products with excellent customer support compared to Moen, Delta, American Standard, Kohler, or many others I can name.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Dornbracht, Grohe, and Jado are all superior products with excellent customer support compared to Moen, Delta, American Standard, Kohler, or many others I can name.


Dornbracht took 2 weeks to send me a part I needed from Atlanta. I first had called California and talked to chico who didn't know shiot and I called the supplier and they gave me the reps number who gave me the Atlanta number.It took 2 hours to order the part. American standard sent me the wrong tank levers 3 times in a row even tho i gave them the toilet tank number 3 times and then tried to make me keep the wrong handles and pay for them because an outside company deals/sells their parts for them even tho you call american standard and order them directly. Kohler took 6 weeks to get me a bubble air tub and then couldn't provide me with the air pipe location....I had to wait until the tub got there and that delayed the entire project 3 weeks. Grohe would be the only faucet i would agree with you on and Grohe doesn't make a 100.00 faucet. I could give you more examples of those companys F ups if you would like. I've done repair for along time and delta has proven the best all around faucet.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> hmm, I thought the lead ban was only on parts that would convey water that may be consumed. Am I wrong ? I though thats why it didn't effect the shower valve bodies.


Are "They" thinking that the water goes down the drains containing lead, then to water treatment, so we have to remove it all?


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

slickrick said:


> Are "They" thinking that the water goes down the drains containing lead, then to water treatment, so we have to remove it all?


 
I understand that treated drain water gets reused.. I was just saying I did not realise that the ban effected drainage fittings. I thought it just affected fixtures and fitting conveying water to be consumed. 

Ok, I just looked it up one the california website. this is from the FAQ page about the new law.

* Q: Which products are affected by the changes to the law that are effective January 1, 2010?*
Beginning January 1, 2010, the law requires pipes and pipe fittings, plumbing fittings, or fixtures intended to convey or dispense water for human consumption through drinking or cooking to meet the new "lead-free" definition. Additionally, any other end-use devices intended to convey or dispense water for human consumption through drinking or cooking must meet the new lead-free requirement. Examples include kitchen faucets, bathroom faucets and drinking water fountains. Service saddles, back-flow preventers for non-potable services such as irrigation and industrial, and water distribution main gate valves that are two inches in diameter and above are not covered by the law.

Giving that answer I would say that the change in the TP is not required by the new law, They must have had some other reason for doing so.


http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/PollutionPrevention/LeadInPlumbing.cfm#Frequently_Asked_Questions


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> I understand that treated drain water gets reused.. I was just saying I did not realise that the ban effected drainage fittings. I thought it just affected fixtures and fitting conveying water to be consumed.
> 
> Ok, I just looked it up one the california website. this is from the FAQ page about the new law.
> 
> ...


The Delta rep. I spoke with thought it "might" be due to the lead ban. Things are going crazy with no explanation. Now, how are we going to cut these TP?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I will agree with you about grohe. I've never had a defective faucet from them. They are just so damn expensive though that most people will not spend the money. They are my preference on a vertical spa/shower setup though. 

Another complaint: if I spend 2 grand on a vertical spa I want brass or stainless steel trim, not plastic. Seriously, plastic, on a 2k shower???? WTF? I can get a $65 moen posi-temp and it has metallic trim.



TheMaster said:


> Dornbracht took 2 weeks to send me a part I needed from Atlanta. I first had called California and talked to chico who didn't know shiot and I called the supplier and they gave me the reps number who gave me the Atlanta number.It took 2 hours to order the part. American standard sent me the wrong tank levers 3 times in a row even tho i gave them the toilet tank number 3 times and then tried to make me keep the wrong handles and pay for them because an outside company deals/sells their parts for them even tho you call american standard and order them directly. Kohler took 6 weeks to get me a bubble air tub and then couldn't provide me with the air pipe location....I had to wait until the tub got there and that delayed the entire project 3 weeks. Grohe would be the only faucet i would agree with you on and Grohe doesn't make a 100.00 faucet. I could give you more examples of those companys F ups if you would like. I've done repair for along time and delta has proven the best all around faucet.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Why do I feel like I'm being ignored about cutting ss/tp? This is world shaking stuff. When all you need to do is cut that thing to finish up at 5:30 fri evening, trying to get to a Christmas party, and it takes 15 min. nawing through it, don't say slickrick didn't warn me.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

slickrick said:


> Why do I feel like I'm being ignored about cutting ss/tp? This is world shaking stuff. When all you need to do is cut that thing to finish up at 5:30 fri evening, trying to get to a Christmas party, and it takes 15 min. nawing through it, don't say slickrick didn't warn me.


I have a plasma cutter.


I also wish that CA would fall into the ocean and take all of their frivolous laws and bans with it.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

slickrick said:


> Why do I feel like I'm being ignored about cutting ss/tp? This is world shaking stuff. When all you need to do is cut that thing to finish up at 5:30 fri evening, trying to get to a Christmas party, and it takes 15 min. nawing through it, don't say slickrick didn't warn me.


 

Give em hell rickey!! I can't add anything to the convo because I haven't installed a pop-up assembly in a real long time. 


Weird how I won't touch certain products in plumbing for months, and then all a sudden do 4-8 in a short span of time.

Plumbing is never boring, or the same.


I've been putting my hands on a lot of toilet rebuilds lately, something I didn't do a whole lot the first part of the year. ???


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

slickrick said:


> Why do I feel like I'm being ignored about cutting ss/tp? This is world shaking stuff. When all you need to do is cut that thing to finish up at 5:30 fri evening, trying to get to a Christmas party, and it takes 15 min. nawing through it, don't say slickrick didn't warn me.


What about a cutter wheel for stainless steel? Ridgid makes em, I use them for CSST.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> What about a cutter wheel for stainless steel? Ridgid makes em, I use them for CSST.


I looked at Ridgid cutters and saw the one for the CSST and the #35. Will they fit the 11/4"? I hate to have to buy a cutter just for TP. Buy the way.. Do the CSST make a better cut? Less leaks?


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

You may just need to use a good sawzall blade. you may waste one per tp but figure it into the install.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> You may just need to use a good sawzall blade. you may waste one per tp but figure it into the install.


I didn't make it all the way through with a new blade, I had to break it where I had it scored with the cutters.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

slickrick said:


> I didn't make it through with a new blade, I had to break it where I had it scored with the cutters.


 
Wow. it would be interesting to see one. maybe a carbide blade.


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## gusty60 (Oct 21, 2008)

I had the same problem Rickey. They are a beeyotch!


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I found 20 17ga tps at the shop. I thought I would never need them. What a find. I may hold on to them awhile. They may be worth more in a yr. :thumbup:


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## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

I believe the Delta TP is SS, and they will ruin a cutter wheel. Only way i've found is angle grinder with thin abrasive blade. Works well. Ream it afterwards. My question is, and has always been, what was gained by roughing in the drain so high to begin with? What's wrong with stubbing out at 15"? Why, on the same WH, are T&P drains usually too high and the supplies usually too low. Why can't they just as often get it the other way around? Pathetic.


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

have not ran into the ss t/p yet. but hands down i would install delta or grohe.


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