# Natural Gas Info



## mikea88 (Dec 23, 2008)

Do any of you know of a good forum or site to study gas volumes and pressures. I am trying to get a better handle on water column, pressure, volumes and capacity. As it stands now I really don't have a good mental picture of how much the average residential meter puts out. For example running an 11k generator. I think the gas company man need to replace the meter/ regulator. In addition Lp is different from NG so with NG I need even more gas.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I would find out what differnt size meters that they offer in your area from the utility companies for natural gas. I know around here that they offer a 1/2lb, 2lb, and 5lb meter.
BTU loads being services are the most important part of the equation. Then, once you know that, shouldn't be that hard to calculate pipe sizes and lengths.
I always over size my residential gas applications, do to the fact that if they ever want to upgrade or add, it wont be such PITA later on.
Hope that helps, thats about how i figure out all of mine.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

You need to introduce yourself in the intro thread, what code you use and all that.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> You need to introduce yourself in the intro thread, what code you use and all that.


 I agree. Give us an idea who we are helping please.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I dont think that you are a plumber, shouldn't be fooling with gas.


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## mikea88 (Dec 23, 2008)

Sorry, 

I am not asking any DIY help, I know the rules. I am a Professional (Master) Electrician. I use the NFPA 70e as code, and do work in the Washington DC Metro area. I work both commercial and high end residential. 

I asked my question because of the number of backup generators installed on LP or NG. I wire them often yet know very little about the the "pipes" that don't have wires in them. I wanted to educate myself a bit. 

I am also a senior member of Mike Holts Electrical forum. There I feel at home here I am just another non professional asking questions.


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## mikea88 (Dec 23, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I dont think that you are a plumber, shouldn't be fooling with gas.


I am not, And I know where your coming from. We get the same questions on the electrical site. If you don't want to discuss it I understand Ill find my info somewhere else. I respect your site and your field. I am around it often, just on the electrical side. I wanted to know more about the gas side. Don't believe I am an electrician then ask me something only a well educated licensed electrician would know.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I know alot about what your asking...but I know it in my area. You need to get someone one here from your area that knows the local utilities and how the meters / piping is setup. I don't know of a good site to learn about this other from other professionals. I don't have a problem helping out, but I just don't know what things are like on that side of the country. Would this be MD shunk trying to invade our space!!! He is a licensed plumber, but I don't think he does plumbing. I remember reading he got his plumbing license to to make a joke of the licensing requirements. Anyhow, I real Holt's site often and throw my .02 in on ET. Is there any info you can offer on how the gassing works in your area?


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## mikea88 (Dec 23, 2008)

Ha. Thanks Tankless. No this is not MD Shunk, but I know him. Hes a regular as I am sure you know. I really don't know much about the gas around here but just by reading the few posts here I can see that's the first place I should start. I am really just trying to understand and not so much ask about any one job or install. I found a site liek this http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/natural-gas-pipe-calculator-d_1042.html
that has a calculator but I still need to read more theory to get a handel on it. I think I may just look at my meter for any information that my help me put it all together. I really appreciate your reply.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Our meters are color cordinated, also they differ in size. the bigger the meter, more likely the bigger the lbs of pressure. Took a long time to learn gas, made a lot of non-life threating mistakes along the way. Good luck in your quest.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

mikea88 said:


> Sorry,
> 
> I am not asking any DIY help, I know the rules. I am a Professional (Master) Electrician. I use the NFPA 70e as code, and do work in the Washington DC Metro area. I work both commercial and high end residential.
> 
> ...


But when you signed up it plainly said this is for professional plumbers only. 

If you can't respect us enough to play by our rules I have no respect for you. You just classified yourself as a jerk who refuses to respect your fellow tradesmen.

I vote you get banned.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

22rifle said:


> But when you signed up it plainly said this is for professional plumbers only.
> 
> If you can't respect us enough to play by our rules I have no respect for you. You just classified yourself as a jerk who refuses to respect your fellow tradesmen.
> 
> I vote you get banned.


wow


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

If I was gonna study something for fun, It woud not be sizing and pressure calcs for NG.

So, lemme guess, you got a generator for your house and don't know how to properly put the gas to it. 

I agree with 22. I think you should join the band.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

drtyhands said:


> wow


Wow?

Snicker...


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Wow?
> 
> Snicker...


Smile...


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

drtyhands said:


> Smile...


Grin...


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Mike, while I respect you as a licensed electrician, we here are a forum dedicated to professional plumbers. Nathan does however have a site dedicated to electricians here
http://www.electriciantalk.com/
and you may post this question at contractortalk.com too which is a sister site of both. 

I was going to paste the usual response asking you to go to Nathans other site called diy.com, but felt that would be an insult, so I did not.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree with bill, I mean, its not like Nick the Neighbor is asking for advice here. I always try to help out my fellow tradesmen, never know when they might be able to return the favor.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I agree with bill, I mean, its not like Nick the Neighbor is asking for advice here. I always try to help out my fellow tradesmen, never know when they might be able to return the favor.


True. He should ask this at ct, but sometimes ct is tough on non trades asking questions. At least he is not a diy'er.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

New rule, only 1 per trade allowed on PZ after careful considerations.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> New rule, only 1 per trade allowed on PZ after careful considerations.


OK.

See you guys.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> New rule, only 1 per trade allowed on PZ after careful considerations.


huh?


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

drtyhands said:


> wow


There are more keys on that keyboard than wo!


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> OK.
> 
> See you guys.


KTS where are you going?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

meant to put a ? mark at the end of that post, not period, not trying to step on anyones toes in here.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

mikea88 said:


> Do any of you know of a good forum or site to study gas volumes and pressures. I am trying to get a better handle on water column, pressure, volumes and capacity. As it stands now I really don't have a good mental picture of how much the average residential meter puts out. For example running an 11k generator. I think the gas company man need to replace the meter/ regulator. In addition Lp is different from NG so with NG I need even more gas.


This is a site of professional plumbers. Our advice is to hire a professional plumber who is licensed and insured to do gas work. I will gladly hire a licensed electrician when I need electric work done in my house. Support eachother as tradesman.:thumbsup:


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

> Do any of you know of a good forum or site to study gas volumes and pressures. I am trying to get a better handle on water column, pressure, volumes and capacity.


In all honestly, he'd prolly have a hard time finding a plumber (not a journey) that could give a detailed perspectice of what the OP is asking.

I dunno, I guess I have a week spot because I am an electrician too and I also think that professionals can assist professionals. The idean in the whole "hire a plumber" affect is to not draw away work from licensed PC's and to keep people alive, especially with respect to gas. I'm not sure I agree with the whole "screw you get out of our forum" mentallity. Isn't too professional. Now, if he was asking about what is required to hook up an X Y Z jenny or otherwise...sure I get that. He isn't going to learn it from you or I. But this seems like more basic knowledge to me, than a request for a guy to save a few bucks. I could be wrong...maybe he knows how to do everything, but just wants to know what size pipe to run....I don't know nor would I be telling him. But to crap on a FELLOW professional tradesmen (ya know, the guy that won't help home owners install a new panel) seems a bit extreme to me. AND at the same time, his question(s) is not what this forum is about or for...it's for us to discuss all things plumbing and otherwise. I don't know about you guys but I like doing favors for other people...even if I never get a favor back. Explaining how a gas meter works / regualtes does not teach me how to install one, just like explaining how much amperage and voltage a service takes does not teach me how to install one. Do we really want a reputation of Plumbing Zone known as a bunch of dicks from the other online trades? I don't.


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## Bulldog Plumbing (Nov 9, 2008)

Tankless said:


> In all honestly, he'd prolly have a hard time finding a plumber (not a journey) that could give a detailed perspectice of what the OP is asking.
> 
> I dunno, I guess I have a week spot because I am an electrician too and I also think that professionals can assist professionals. The idean in the whole "hire a plumber" affect is to not draw away work from licensed PC's and to keep people alive, especially with respect to gas. I'm not sure I agree with the whole "screw you get out of our forum" mentallity. Isn't too professional. Now, if he was asking about what is required to hook up an X Y Z jenny or otherwise...sure I get that. He isn't going to learn it from you or I. But this seems like more basic knowledge to me, than a request for a guy to save a few bucks. I could be wrong...maybe he knows how to do everything, but just wants to know what size pipe to run....I don't know nor would I be telling him. But to crap on a FELLOW professional tradesmen (ya know, the guy that won't help home owners install a new panel) seems a bit extreme to me. AND at the same time, his question(s) is not what this forum is about or for...it's for us to discuss all things plumbing and otherwise. I don't know about you guys but I like doing favors for other people...even if I never get a favor back. Explaining how a gas meter works / regualtes does not teach me how to install one, just like explaining how much amperage and voltage a service takes does not teach me how to install one. Do we really want a reputation of Plumbing Zone known as a bunch of dicks from the other online trades? I don't.


I know that my word doesn't count for much here, but I agree with what your saying. 
That being said, however, he is an electrician, and I hate most electricians I meet. If not only because their god damn holes don't even have to line up. . . so off with his head!


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Holes, what holes? you mean the ones they drill for my pex sometimes, when they start before me?


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Tankless said:


> In all honestly, he'd prolly have a hard time finding a plumber (not a journey) that could give a detailed perspectice of what the OP is asking.
> 
> I dunno, I guess I have a week spot because I am an electrician too and I also think that professionals can assist professionals. The idean in the whole "hire a plumber" affect is to not draw away work from licensed PC's and to keep people alive, especially with respect to gas. I'm not sure I agree with the whole "screw you get out of our forum" mentallity. Isn't too professional. Now, if he was asking about what is required to hook up an X Y Z jenny or otherwise...sure I get that. He isn't going to learn it from you or I. But this seems like more basic knowledge to me, than a request for a guy to save a few bucks. I could be wrong...maybe he knows how to do everything, but just wants to know what size pipe to run....I don't know nor would I be telling him. But to crap on a FELLOW professional tradesmen (ya know, the guy that won't help home owners install a new panel) seems a bit extreme to me. AND at the same time, his question(s) is not what this forum is about or for...it's for us to discuss all things plumbing and otherwise. I don't know about you guys but I like doing favors for other people...even if I never get a favor back. Explaining how a gas meter works / regualtes does not teach me how to install one, just like explaining how much amperage and voltage a service takes does not teach me how to install one. Do we really want a reputation of Plumbing Zone known as a bunch of dicks from the other online trades? I don't.


I submit that you are missing the whole point. You are focused on the idea of whether we should help each other or not. That's not what is going on here. I go the extra mile to help my fellow tradesmen. More than once the GCs told me how much the other trades enjoyed working with me. I happen to have a soft spot for electricians. At one point I almost went that direction instead of plumbing.

So i really do hear what you are saying.

But I say what you are talking about is irrelevant here. It has almost nothing to do with the OP.

He, by his actions, basically said "Yeah, I know you say this is for plumbers only, but screw you and your rules. I am going to sign up and do what I want even if that means completely disrespecting you."

If you are cool with that approach then I don't know what to say.

Now if your argument is with not allowing him on here to begin with, that's already been decided, hashed out, and re-decided so many times that you are pizzing in the wind to fight that. Nathan started this forum as a place where ONLY plumbers were allowed. There was a bit fo flexibility given later on for someone who was not a plumber, but in the plumbing business and I am cool with that.

But the whole concept and foundation of this forum is that it is for professional plumbers only. Period. End of story. If anyone doesn't like it then start your own website of get Nathan, the mods, and all the members of this site to allow electricians.

If the same guy walked up to me on a job site with the same question I would bend over backwards to help him. But I have no time for people who are asking for my help after completely disrespecting the rules of the place we are hanging out.

Like I said, if you are cool with that kind fo behavior then I don't know what to say.


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

22rifle said:


> I submit that you are missing the whole point. You are focused on the idea of whether we should help each other or not. That's not what is going on here. I go the extra mile to help my fellow tradesmen. More than once the GCs told me how much the other trades enjoyed working with me. I happen to have a soft spot for electricians. At one point I almost went that direction instead of plumbing.
> 
> So i really do hear what you are saying.
> 
> ...


Very very good point. I agree with you.:yes:


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

I would like to help this guy out.
but wont.
If he stays, what does this do for security of the site?
I know any one one could come on to read, even lie and get away with a question or two.
Just saying that if I thought for one second I wasn't talking to a fellow plumber I would be out.
But I don't think that it would have hurt for some one to tell him to check with his local gas supplier for a little more detail or info packet, and in the next sentence told him to get the f!#% out. That's all.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

OP is not allowed to post on this site.


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## celtic1 (Dec 16, 2008)

*Don't Want Any Part Of This*

They're a lot more friendly sites than this! What's Your fear? I'm outa here also. See Ya


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

celtic1 said:


> They're a lot more friendly sites than this! What's Your fear? I'm outa here also. See Ya


Hang on a second...

Why would you take up the offense of a man who doesn't respect us and our "house rules", but rather has a "screw you and your rules" attitude? When all that happened is that his BS was called out?

No one did you any harm. A disrespectful rule breaker was shown the door. Some of us were not all warm, bubbly, and sweet but no one was nasty or called names. But no one did anything to you. So why are you taking up the other man's offense?

Something doesn't compute.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

bill said:


> there Are More Keys On That Keyboard Than Wo!


 Huh?


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

:detective:
:innocent:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

celtic1 said:


> They're a lot more friendly sites than this! What's Your fear? I'm outa here also. See Ya


Rules are set and enforced, don't like them you don't have to visit here.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Was anyone unfriendly to celtic1? Whatever.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I agree with 22. If I'm talking to a sparky on site and he asks me a plumbing question. I am more than happy to help. If an anonymous electrician from the web asks me a question. No answers.

If someone wants to get pissed and leave the board. Go right ahead. I don't take this crap seriously. There will be 10 more plumbers with things to offer that will gladly take your place.

If somebody gets pissed and leaves then, meh...... life goes on.


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## mikea888 (Dec 25, 2008)

Typical..... I guess my ignorant disrespectful self will go elswhere. The I can bun down my house with my DIY work. 

Best Wishes. Happy Holidays.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Rules are set and enforced, don't like them you don't have to visit here.


Got that right. I did what I did because he was an electrician. I kindly told him to try ct.

As for celtic1, nobody got crappy with him and he had no right acting like he did.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

mikea888 said:


> Typical..... I guess my ignorant disrespectful self will go elswhere. The I can bun down my house with my DIY work.
> 
> Best Wishes. Happy Holidays.


 
Happy holidays to you too Mike. Let the house bunning commence.:thumbsup:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Originally Posted by *mikea888*  
_Typical..... I guess my ignorant disrespectful self will go elswhere. The I can bun down my house with my DIY work. 

Best Wishes. Happy Holidays.

*And how is that our fault?*_


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