# Kinetic Water Ram & Hair Balls....



## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

I'm seriously thinking about getting one of these for those tough sinks and tubs. How well do these work on hair balls ?


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

The best way to clean a drain, especially hair, is with a snake. With that said, I live in an area with alot of old drum traps (some of which are in ceilings) and alot of these are impossible to open without breaking something. This is where the water ram comes in handy. In certain situations, it's a great tool.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

pauliplumber said:


> The best way to clean a drain, especially hair, is with a snake. With that said, I live in an area with alot of old drum traps (some of which are in ceilings) and alot of these are impossible to open without breaking something. This is where the water ram comes in handy. In certain situations, it's a great tool.



Yes, I run cable 99% of the time. But there is always that one in one hundred job that needs special attention and I want to make sure I can open it. I was just wondering how effective these were on hair balls ?


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

if drain is totally plugged it will open drain. it may or may not clean the drain. breid...............:rockon:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

AssTyme said:


> I'm seriously thinking about getting one of these for those tough sinks and tubs. How well do these work on hair balls ?


Not good on hairballs. Great on grease or sludge.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I have been using a water ram and a force pump ever since I got into plumbing. I grew up watching my father use them. They do have a place and time.

I was doing a job at a factory that had a blocked 2" floor drain in the mechanical closet off the lunch room. This was on the second floor. I tried to rod through it but the rod would not go past the bottom of the trap due to it was one of those older cast iron traps with the clean out plug in the bottom. Could not get to the clean out plug due to the ceiling on the first floor was 30' up and could not get a lift in the room. So I grabbed my water ram put on the right sized rubber, pumped it up to 80 PSI (only go this high if you are sure the pipes are solid) And snapped the trigger. I then was watching the standing water in this room whirlpool down, along with all the dirt, earplugs cigarette butts go down the drain. This told me that it cleaned the drain just fine. That was 10 years ago, this line has yet to back up since.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

jjbex said:


> Not good on hairballs. Great on grease or sludge.




Then it would seem this would not be good for tubs as 9 out of 10 are hair balls.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

AssTyme said:


> Then it would seem this would not be good for tubs as 9 out of 10 are hair balls.


There are a hand full of tubs I can not get the rod passed the hidden drum trap. I first try using the Ro-Pump to suck out the stoppage, if that does not get it then I use the water ram. Always start with low pressure first. I start at 5 PSI then increase it by 5 PSI each time For lav sinks and tubs I will not go over 25 PSI. One trick to help with clearing a tub, is to fill the lav sink up and let it drain as you hit the tub with the water ram.

It will take some practice and learning. Also ensure you are not working on a back to back tub... huge messes have been made by guys that do not check out the situation before using a water ram.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

hey Ratz, do you think they would work on a galvy waste arm packed full of rust and sludge?


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

plumbpro said:


> hey Ratz, do you think they would work on a galvy waste arm packed full of rust and sludge?


I have used it on sludge packed sink lines with mixed results. If its just the waste arm it will work great, if its further down the line and you have a vent line near by, it can take a few hits with the ram. I find it best to rod the line if you can, and if the line is blocked with sludge the rod can not get moving then the water ram will help you get it moving again.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> I have used it on sludge packed sink lines with mixed results. If its just the waste arm it will work great, if its further down the line and you have a vent line near by, it can take a few hits with the ram. I find it best to rod the line if you can, and if the line is blocked with sludge the rod can not get moving then the water ram will help you get it moving again.


I've run into the situation a few times where there is a CI stack behind a W/C and a galv waste arm running between 3 and 6 feet to a lav. I was thinking of ramming it to get it moving, then sending in the super vee to clean it out. What do you think?


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

plumbpro said:


> I've run into the situation a few times where there is a CI stack behind a W/C and a galv waste arm running between 3 and 6 feet to a lav. I was thinking of ramming it to get it moving, then sending in the super vee to clean it out. What do you think?


Yep it sounds like a good plan. I have done exactly that a many times.


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

C/I stack with 3-6ft arms I usually use a shop vac to open it up and also use a 1/4 cable. But usually shop vac cure it on this situations


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

I have a super vee with a 1/4 open hook that will rarely open a bad one. I should try the vac first.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I've been wanting to buy one. Just worry that it wont work like they say it does. Seems like a good tool for service agreements if it works like it's suppose too.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

It's great for those situations where for whatever reason, you either can't use your snake or your snake is not working.

A friend of mine owns a duplex. A few years ago both tub drains on both sides were plugged (2nd floor), they both had old drum traps. Well I was there with my k-39 AF for 3-4 hrs  trying various methods to unplug it ( I get 90+% of residential drains with p traps 2" and under with this tool) with no luck and left defeated. I told him to call a drain cleaning company.

Next day he tells me the drain guys got unplugged in 10 minutes with this pop gun thingy. I ordered a water ram that day. 80% of the homes here have drum traps so I use it often. 

Bottom line, if you can snake it, snake it. 

If not, pop that mo fo.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Ive used that thing on many a drain. They work very well for tubs with drum traps. I use a snake first but anytime I have picked it up, it has worked flawlessly. It does make a huge mess in a sink or toilet though so beware.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I used it roof drains at a can factory in Chicago. It blows the leaves and gunk right out. It is also extremely great when your partner cranks it up to about 80 psi and tries to pop the next one. Unfortunately, this one is blocked by tar, and it's full of stinky standing water, so he gets a stench shower.


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## dankman (Nov 19, 2009)

I've been using them for 10 years, they won't open everything but they do have their place.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

It's funny not one person has'nt mention that they've used it to restore water pressure to a single fixture....


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

130 PLUMBER said:


> It's funny not one person has'nt mention that they've used it to restore water pressure to a single fixture....


I noted that in past threads with full detail on how to do it. But since this thread is posted in the "Drain and Sewer Cleaning" part of the forum, I did not bother mentioning it.

I do get weak water pressure calls on a regular basis. In most cases I can get the water pressure back to normal with the water ram.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> I noted that in past threads with full detail on how to do it. But since this thread is posted in the "Drain and Sewer Cleaning" part of the forum, I did not bother mentioning it.
> 
> I do get weak water pressure calls on a regular basis. In most cases I can get the water pressure back to normal with the water ram.


 
I just wanted the others to know that it could also be use to restore water pressure:thumbsup:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

130 PLUMBER said:


> I just wanted the others to know that it could also be use to restore water pressure:thumbsup:


How? Isn't using a tool that comes in contact with sewage a no-no for potable?


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

jjbex said:


> How? Isn't using a tool that comes in contact with sewage a no-no for potable?


 
Technically YES, IMO the only way it can be done is by treating the water lines and flushing them out a couple of time.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> I noted that in past threads with full detail on how to do it. But since this thread is posted in the "Drain and Sewer Cleaning" part of the forum, I did not bother mentioning it.
> 
> I do get weak water pressure calls on a regular basis. In most cases I can get the water pressure back to normal with the water ram.




Have a link to the thread, I couldn't find it :blink:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

jjbex said:


> How? Isn't using a tool that comes in contact with sewage a no-no for potable?


 
That is like the doctor using a tongue depresser up your neighbor's rear-end, and then with the same tongue depresser asking you to "Say ahh." :laughing: 


Unless of course the aforementioned plumber has one ram for sewage and another for potable water lines. :no:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Ok here is how to use a water ram to restore water pressure to old piping.


Turn water off to building.
attach water ram to plumbing where the poor water pressure is.
open a tap where the water pressure is good
pump unit up to 100 psi
snap the trigger
reassemble the plumbing you took apart.
turn water on and flush lines real good.
I have two water rams. One I use only on potable water and the other is for drains.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> Ok here is how to use a water ram to restore water pressure to old piping.
> 
> 
> Turn water off to building.
> ...





Alrighty sir. I stand corrected. (Ever mix 'em up? just kidding :laughing


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

So one would have to cap or plug all fixtures that share the same drain or get ready to clean huge messes. This is assuming the vent to the tub etc. is capped off. K I done some reading and see it supposedly does not build up pressure. :notworthy: As far as pressuring water lines I always keep a 1.5 gal. compressure on truck with me. I've had good luck most of the time, but may get a water ram. Geez I drive a Utility truck and pull a trailer full time. Both are loaded with tools I "might need". Always another tool.:blink:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Ok here is how to use a water ram to restore water pressure to old piping.
> 
> 
> Turn water off to building.
> ...


A compressor works better.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I had a condo where dozens of guys came in with compressors trying to restore normal flow to the hot side of a tub and shower. They where telling the association they have to do a full repipe of the building. 

I walked in turned the water off took off the tub spout and shower head. Caped the shower line and hooked up the water ram to the tub. On the other side of the bathroom was a utility room with a utility sink. So I opened the hot side there, and gave the line two blasts at 90 PSI. Shut the stops of for the tub and shower valve, left the hot open on the utility sink and turned on the water. About a pound of rust come flushing out of the line. Opened the stops on the tub and they had full water pressure again.

As to getting them mixed up. Nope my drain ram is 40 years old the one for potable water is about 5 years old.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> I had a condo where dozens of guys came in with compressors trying to restore normal flow to the hot side of a tub and shower. They where telling the association they have to do a full repipe of the building


They didn't have the right compressor set up!:whistling2:

Your kinetic water ram is no great miracle it is a relatively small compressor.

The one difference is the path for the air from the receiver on your kinetic water ram was a lot more effective at moving a large volume of air very quickly than whatever they had set up with their compressor.

A compressor system properly applied can exert a lot more force than your kinetic water ram, its volume is severely limited by the size of its receiver...

They just had some guys come out that thought they could do something impressive with a 1/4" hose instead of thinking big....:thumbup:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Ok I'll bite. I have never heard of this for water pressure. In my area this problem would mainly be caused by old galvanized lines corroded with calcium. Are you guys suggesting a simple blast of air back through the pipes solves or at least helps this problem? :whistling2:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Pipe Rat said:


> Ok I'll bite. I have never heard of this for water pressure. In my area this problem would mainly be caused by old galvanized lines corroded with calcium. Are you guys suggesting a simple blast of air back through the pipes solves or at least helps this problem? :whistling2:


It can be a temporary solution before a repipe....:whistling2:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Yeah and it can also cause leaks. Also if you don't flush it out throughly, you WILL have ruined ball cocks and faucet cartridges throught the house. I don't mess with galvanized piping. I either replace it or leave it alone as replacement is the only real solution to the problem.


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## rrman (Oct 29, 2008)

*2nd year appretis*

I've wrecked a couple lead tub drain w/ a simple hand auger whats the possibity that you'll blow that line out completely w/ the ram?


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> For lav sinks and tubs I will not go over 25 PSI.



Why no more than 25 psi ?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I was called to a college in town that had a line of drains stopped up. If you can picture 4 urinals on one side of partition, 4 lavs on opposite side same partition. The kids had stuffed urinals with paper towels etc. The horizontal and one vertical was sludged up. Rodding with cable took couple hours to move the sludged paper. Question is, would the kenetic gun have worked in this senario or would I have made a huge mess of the place. BTW the units were back to back double santeed.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

AssTyme said:


> Why no more than 25 psi ?


Its the kinetic shock wave that breaks up the blockage. To much pressure can blow traps off, drum trap covers off. This like any tool has a learning curve.Its best to start with a low pressure and then increase it 5 psi at a time. I find if the sink waste and trap are old and ill fitting 25 psi is the max before you blow apart the compression joint. If they joints are god and strong and I see they can handle more than 25 psi I go up to around 40 psi at the most.



mpsllc said:


> I was called to a college in town that had a line of drains stopped up. If you can picture 4 urinals on one side of partition, 4 lavs on opposite side same partition. The kids had stuffed urinals with paper towels etc. The horizontal and one vertical was sludged up. Rodding with cable took couple hours to move the sludged paper. Question is, would the kenetic gun have worked in this senario or would I have made a huge mess of the place. BTW the units were back to back double santeed.


I never been a fan of using this on a urinal since making a good seal in that odd shaped drain opening is not that easy.

As for back to back drains you do have to take care to have someone hold a stopper in them so when you snap the trigger you do not blow the waste water out of the other drain.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> Its the kinetic shock wave that breaks up the blockage. To much pressure can blow traps off, drum trap covers off. This like any tool has a learning curve.Its best to start with a low pressure and then increase it 5 psi at a time. I find if the sink waste and trap are old and ill fitting 25 psi is the max before you blow apart the compression joint. If they joints are god and strong and I see they can handle more than 25 psi I go up to around 40 psi at the most.



Yup, it's confirmed 

http://draincleaningforum.com/showpost.php?p=9339&postcount=7


:blink:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I've been thinking of getting an air gun, one thing as I read this thread is no mention of a brand name. I'm seeing a General kenetic drain gun, looking for thoughts on this or other potential favorites.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> I've been thinking of getting an air gun, one thing as I read this thread is no mention of a brand name. I'm seeing a General kenetic drain gun, looking for thoughts on this or other potential favorites.



The General Kinetic Water Ram is what this thread refers to. To my knowledge it's the best one on the market.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Found this video online: 




Had a ground floor cast iron shower drain give me hell for 2 hours today. May have to try this out before I bust out the jackhammer.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

It's worth a shot. It only takes a few min to try with the ram.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Billing the customer for the tool would be much cheaper and still cover the cost too.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

The Kinetic Water Ram kicks azz when conditions are right. One of my better purchases ))


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## ap plumbing (Nov 9, 2010)

:thumbsup:i guess i might need a ram in my truck now.... great another tool


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm going to try and borrow one from the General Rep or somewhere on Monday. If not, I may pick up this imitation: Amazon.com: Cobra Products 650 Air Drain Blaster: Home Improvement

If I can just get this line open, I should be able to get the shop to shell out for the real deal.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Okay, bought the Cobra one at Lowes today. it comes with a few tips, one fits the mouth of a plastic water bottle very snug. 

The construction is pretty cheesy but give it thirty pumps and it means business. Shot a plastic water bottle 25 ft. Put on the tub tip and opened up some slow tub drains in my apt. Then I wet a paper towel, wadded it up tight in the rubber tip and thirty pumps shot it 20' with force! 


It won't hold up for professional use but buying a General air gun will be much easier later.​


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Cobra Drain gun seems to be holding it's own. Used it on a lav stoppage draining into a cast iron system last week. Made a mistake by going full 20 pumps first, there's no psi gauge to tell you your pressure. Unloaded with no splash guard and I sprayed sludge over the counter. Two more messy pulls and the drain was flowing like a champ. 

Learned from that experience today and started another lav stoppage at 5 pumps and made a shield with some plastic sheeting. Last pull with 15 pumps and flowing great again.

The appearance of the tool is not as impressive as the General. I keep it buried under rags when I bring it inside and hide it after I get the job done. The plunger uses a rubber o-ring and it can bind up when dry. I thought the thing was done, but a little lube got it working again.


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