# pex



## petebee50 (Jan 16, 2011)

Is there a pex for natural gas installs?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Paul


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Wow!

Sure! Sharkbites too!


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Yup, the yellow stuff... :laughing:


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

petebee50 said:


> Is there a pex for natural gas installs?


Looks like they are trying.........

http://www.ardipex.com/pex-gas-system.php


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

U666A said:


> Yup, the yellow stuff... :laughing:


Yea they got it at Lowes...


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Yes it is made by R.U. Kidn & Co. out of Dallas, TX.

Mark


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> Yes it is made by R.U. Kidn & Co. out of Dallas, TX.
> 
> Mark


Why does it have to come from Dallas??? :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Why does it have to come from Dallas??? :laughing:


Cause Jerry Jones owns it.... :laughing:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Cause Jerry Jones owns it.... :laughing:


The only thing that goof owns is a field goal kicker...


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

petebee50 said:


> Is there a pex for natural gas installs?


Hire a licensed master plumber he/she will do it right. 

Personly I use PVC pipe and sharkbites for gas. :thumbup:


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I like to use CPVC with the one step glue for gas:thumbsup:


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

For a more professional look, I use 3" flexible SS lav risers coupled with 1/4" brass close nipples. Oh and lots of the white teflon tape.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Looks like the OP was on the right track. I never knew such stuff existed. I get nervous enough putting in a flex connector, let alone a plastic of any nature. 

*Gas and air distribution.*
 The aluminum layer allows Ardi PEX-AL-PEX pipe to stand high working pressure and prevent oxygen/gases from permeating into pipe. Ardi PEX-AL-PEX tube is freely bent that makes the use of numerous fittings unnecessary. Ardi PEX-AL-PEX pipe is your safe and reliable choice of compressed air, gas and oxygen supply.

Funny how quick people were to jump.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Indie said:


> Looks like the OP was on the right track. I never knew such stuff existed. I get nervous enough putting in a flex connector, let alone a plastic of any nature.
> 
> *Gas and air distribution.*
> The aluminum layer allows Ardi PEX-AL-PEX pipe to stand high working pressure and prevent oxygen/gases from permeating into pipe. Ardi PEX-AL-PEX tube is freely bent that makes the use of numerous fittings unnecessary. Ardi PEX-AL-PEX pipe is your safe and reliable choice of compressed air, gas and oxygen supply.
> ...


Be careful not to jump on this so quickly. ARDI does not have a single product listed with IAPMO and PEX is not listed under any Codes I've seen for NG. This looks like it may be Rifeng which is IAPMO listed for water.

Mark


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I don't retract my . 

I'm anti CSST, why would I recomend pex for gas even if it is available. Even those of us that didn't know it was availabe certainly couldn't deny that it was coming. 









Paul


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Indie said:


> Looks like the OP was on the right track. I never knew such stuff existed. I get nervous enough putting in a flex connector, let alone a plastic of any nature.
> 
> Gas and air distribution.
> The aluminum layer allows Ardi PEX-AL-PEX pipe to stand high working pressure and prevent oxygen/gases from permeating into pipe. Ardi PEX-AL-PEX tube is freely bent that makes the use of numerous fittings unnecessary. Ardi PEX-AL-PEX pipe is your safe and reliable choice of compressed air, gas and oxygen supply.
> ...


So your going to use it?


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Plumberman said:


> So your going to use it?



Obviously not, I already stated I get nervous using flex connectors. My point was that the OP was not that far off base asking about it, and without knowing his or her intent many dog-piled. It could have been a completely academic question, and without further commentary by the OP it cannot be known at this time. No offense, or pot stirring, or any ill intent intended.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

That wasn't dog piling. 

Any how, if it ain't code approved then we can't use it.

Just because it's a Lowes or Home Depot doesn't mean that it is code approved. 

I doubt my home state would ever legalize it's use inside buildings.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Plumberman said:


> That wasn't dog piling.
> 
> Any how, if it ain't code approved then we can't use it.
> 
> ...


Glad we are in agreement on using it. Can't imagine any plumber wanting to use it even if it was code approved. Not sure if its carried at the box stores, I was referring to the website. 

Dog-pile was probably the wrong description of what happened, regardless....


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

You guys are laughing and making jokes like you think it ain't gonna happen. Mark my words, it will and sooner than you think. Hell, you can Pro-Press gas pipe now, why not pex too?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Black pipe and galvy is all that should ever be used for gas in my opinion, I hope pex will never made so it can be used for gas, csst is bad enough, atleast shark bites can't be used with that, pex otoh will be a disaster, a handyhacks dream. Unfortantly like most things lives have to be lost or property has to be damaged for it to be banned.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Mississippiplum said:


> Black pipe and galvy is all that should ever be used for gas in my opinion, I hope pex will never made so it can be used for gas, csst is bad enough, atleast shark bites can't be used with that, pex otoh will be a disaster, a handyhacks dream. Unfortantly like most things lives have to be lost or property has to be damaged for it to be banned.



Not sure about your area, but galvanized is not code approved here for gas work. 

As for the pex, it will probably be more durable and stronger than that stinking CSST. If you check the specs on that website it is a multilayer product. 

Nothing but Black Iron should be code approved in my opinion. Let's get real here, anything less is just to risky for the public safety. Awfully hard to put a screw in black iron, or a nail, and cut with a saw.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

No galvy here either but I know that in other places it is allowed like california


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Galvanized is used here when piping is exposed to the elements or you can use rad spray paint on the black pipe 

Gas pex huh I hope to never see it


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> Black pipe and galvy is all that should ever be used for gas in my opinion, I hope pex will never made so it can be used for gas, csst is bad enough, atleast shark bites can't be used with that, pex otoh will be a disaster, a handyhacks dream. Unfortantly like most things lives have to be lost or property has to be damaged for it to be banned.


 Where the fuque are you coming from?

CSST is a brilliant product in the right hands. -- Then again, unlike you, I don't hear banjo music playing in the background every time I open up my my tool bag or put my fingers to the keyboard.

There are safe, fuque it, nearly bulletproof ways to install CSST -- Your boss would be fuque-all more competitive if he/she learned those ways.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> No galvy here either but I know that in other places it is allowed like california


 We use it here for passing through masonry.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> Where the fuque are you coming from?
> 
> CSST is a brilliant product in the right hands. -- Then again, unlike you, I don't hear banjo music playing in the background every time I open up my my tool bag or put my fingers to the keyboard.
> 
> There are safe, fuque it, nearly bulletproof ways to install CSST -- Your boss would be fuque-all more competitive if he/she learned those ways.


So, how do you really feel about it? 😄


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Indie said:


> So, how do you really feel about it? 😄


 I think I've said all I have to say on the matter.

I can shake my head only so much before the whiplash sets in.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I think I've said all I have to say on the matter.
> 
> I can shake my head only so much before the whiplash sets in.


Can I hold you to that? :no:

I doubt it very seriously....


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Airgap said:


> Can I hold you to that? :no:
> 
> I doubt it very seriously....


 I'm done.

I've suspended my disbelief as much as I can.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I personally would not install CSST in my worst enemies house. The crap is a lawsuit waiting to happen. We don't sell it, install it or have anything to do with it and.........we ain't loosing one thin dime either. Go black, you will never have to go back :thumbsup:

And.....absolutely no galvanized here. Code inspectors and the gas company will not allow it under any circumstances....but......That's a local thing with I feel very little logic behind it.

I like when people hate each other. It renews my faith in mankind


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I personally would not install CSST in my worst enemies house. The crap is a lawsuit waiting to happen. We don't sell it, install it or have anything to do with it and.........we ain't loosing one thin dime either. Go black, you will never have to go back :thumbsup:
> 
> And.....absolutely no galvanized here. Code inspectors and the gas company will not allow it under any circumstances....but......That's a local thing with I feel very little logic behind it.
> 
> I like when people hate each other. It renews my faith in mankind


Exactly csst would be bad here in the lightning capital of the world :laughing: I wouldn't even install it in satins house.


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## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

We use Pex-alu-pex quite regularly for natural gas here in Australia. There are plenty of do's and dont's with it of course but it is definately a material that has it's place so don't be so quick to judge. I love it for roof spaces with the appropriate transitions to and from copper. The sleeve joining system for the rautitan range is fool proof imo. Because it can be swept and molded you can change directions without welding a bend or threading anything


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

For all of you who's installation excludes galvanized & only permits black, what do you do in exterior applications, or crawl-spaces? Eventually all that lovely blackness is gonna start to rust up. Do you guys spray the pipe?


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## evan (Dec 10, 2010)

we paint it


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Mississippiplum said:


> Exactly csst would be bad here in the lightning capital of the world :laughing: I wouldn't even install it in satins house.


I just replaced a gas water heater that was cooked from a hole is CSST. Luckily, there wasn't any flammable items near by and the home owner walked out into the garage and call the fire department. It could have ended very badly. His wife demanded the gas be shutoff and had me install an electric heater in it's place.

Yep, that CSST is good stuff. So I wonder who would have been sued if that house had burned to the ground with the elderly couple inside of it :whistling2:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I use CSST all the time, nothing to fear


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Mississippiplum said:


> Exactly csst would be bad here in the lightning capital of the world :laughing: I wouldn't even install it in satins house.



Who is satin, the soft cousin of Satan? Gives a whole new meaning to come see the softer side of .....

Is this him?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Indie said:


> Who is satin, the soft cousin of Satan? Gives a whole new meaning to come see the softer side of .....
> 
> Is this him?


The spell check on my iPhone didn't catch that'un lol.


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## SHAUN C (Feb 16, 2011)

I can't believe this is a real discussion. Any plumber installing pex for gas should be shot on site!


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

I love threads like this, I bet when pex first came out our fathers had the same conversations going about its use for water piping. I use CSST when I'm doing a Reno on a commercial space an need to run 80' before shoot up to to the roof makes my job easy, especially when T-bar is already in place. Would I use pex, sure if it was an approved product, All my gas jobs are permitted including Hwt replacements. 

Side note rumor around here has that the safety authority that regulates gas work has been going to the local wholesalers getting lists of gas appliance sales and comparing against whose been pulling permits for the work. Last thing I want is a fine or loose my ticket over a few hot water tank jobs.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Iv never worked with csst. I was taught black steel is for gas!!! But I've done a lot underground gas with poly!!! Isn't pex and poly very similar ???


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Greenguy said:


> Would I use pex, sure if it was an approved product...


I think part of our responsibility as professional plumbers is to think beyond code approval. Just because it's code approved, doesn't mean it's o.k. to use. 



TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Iv never worked with csst. I was taught black steel is for gas!!! But I've done a lot underground gas with poly!!! Isn't pex and poly very similar ???


To me, there's a big difference between poly pipe buried 20" below the ground and pex inside a wall. Maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel better about using poly underground, instead of steel.







Paul


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> I think part of our responsibility as professional plumbers is to think beyond code approval. Just because it's code approved, doesn't mean it's o.k. to use.
> 
> To me, there's a big difference between poly pipe buried 20" below the ground and pex inside a wall. Maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel better about using poly underground, instead of steel.
> 
> Paul


I agree. But poly is thicker then pex and won't rott like steel so I think it's ideal for underground !!! Poly under... Steel above!!! That's the best way


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

SHAUN C said:


> I can't believe this is a real discussion. Any plumber installing pex for gas should be shot on site!


I used to say the same about any plumber installing pex for anything. Time and the tide marches on


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## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

A rep brought this to me one time and tried selling to me. i didn't see any upc or other markings on the fittings which concerned me. I know an inspector who is friends with many plumbing board members and asked him if he or anyone have ever herd of it . He nor the board have ever seen it so i declined the offer to try it out for the rep. 

But heres the link of what it looks like.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/gas-Flex-1-...388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f7e2c144

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Mr Plumber said:


> A rep brought this to me one time and tried selling to me. i didn't see any upc or other markings on the fittings which concerned me. I know an inspector who is friends with many plumbing board members and asked him if he or anyone have ever herd of it . He nor the board have ever seen it so i declined the offer to try it out for the rep.
> 
> But heres the link of what it looks like.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/gas-Flex-1-...388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f7e2c144
> ...


Boy this stuff is getting stranger and stranger. They talk about certificates but don't really show any Code approvals.

http://www.gasflex.com/

It looks like what they are doing is saying it is approved because aluminum tubing is approved. So it is an aluminum tubing with a PE coating both inside and out. My Codes do not approve of aluminum tubing in the wall.

Mark


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## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

ToUtahNow said:


> Boy this stuff is getting stranger and stranger. They talk about certificates but don't really show any Code approvals.
> 
> http://www.gasflex.com/
> 
> ...


I know, They are trying to sell it as aluminum but in reality it is a PE-AL-PE pipe. In Michigan the new code does recognize PE-AL-PE pipe for use as water pipe but the gas code does not mention anything about the use of PE-AL-PE. When I asked our code update class instructor who is a plumbing and heating inspector he said that PE-AL-PE was not approved for gas piping yet.

Maybe these companies are a head of the curve and this will become the new hotness in gas pipping one day. Im sure someone will throw enough money at a few members on the board :furious: and we will start to see this in the code books eventually. 

Until its code approved im staying away from it. :no:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

It seems as though it will have the same problem that csst has, considering aluminum is highly conductive. This will probly be worst considering aluminum has a lower melting point then ss, if you thought the pinhole problems associated with csst are bad, this PE-al-PE crap will be even worst.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I would like to see some more detailed specifications on this stuff. On the face of it I think I just might be inclined to give it the thumbs up over CSST if only because I believe ( and I could be wrong ) that this material has better durability than CSST and you can direct bury it ( I think ) I can't pass judgement yet. Says that they have been using it in Europe and Australia for awhile so I would like to hear from anyone over there. I'm very cautious about buying into products without doing some research first. Too many times in the past we have had inferior products pushed on us that wound up biting us on the ass later.


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## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I would like to see some more detailed specifications on this stuff. On the face of it I think I just might be inclined to give it the thumbs up over CSST if only because I believe ( and I could be wrong ) that this material has better durability than CSST and you can direct bury it ( I think ) I can't pass judgement yet. Says that they have been using it in Europe and Australia for awhile so I would like to hear from anyone over there. I'm very cautious about buying into products without doing some research first. Too many times in the past we have had inferior products pushed on us that wound up biting us on the ass later.


It interesting stuff. It does seem better than CSST as far as durability and rigidness. the sample the Rep brought out to me had good memory. What i mean is when you bent it It stayed straight unlike the floppiness of CSST.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr Plumber said:


> A rep brought this to me one time and tried selling to me. i didn't see any upc or other markings on the fittings which concerned me. I know an inspector who is friends with many plumbing board members and asked him if he or anyone have ever herd of it . He nor the board have ever seen it so i declined the offer to try it out for the rep.
> 
> But heres the link of what it looks like.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/gas-Flex-1-...388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f7e2c144
> ...


 The biggest problem I see with this product and CCST are the measures you need to take to protect the thin walls from nail or screw penetrations.

Having installed literally miles of CSST, protecting the material is a no-brainer for me -- I can install the product and walk away knowing I've covered all of the bases and done everything humanly possible to protect the material from known issues.

Still, I see a lot of installations that would keep me awake at night if I were the installer.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> It seems as though it will have the same problem that csst has, considering aluminum is highly conductive. This will probly be worst considering aluminum has a lower melting point then ss, if you thought the pinhole problems associated with csst are bad, this PE-al-PE crap will be even worst.


 What pinhole problem?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> What pinhole problem?


Csst has had problems where lightning strikes conducting through the inner ss tube has caused pinholes, for instance there was a thread here that explained a situation where a lightning strike conducted through a water meter reader cable in a basement running next to a csst gas line, everywhere the cable touched a pinhole formed. Also appliances with bad ground connections have been known to ground out through the csst and cause pinholes. I just think it is scary stuff, I would never use csst, but thats just me.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> Csst has had problems where lightning strikes conducting through the inner ss tube has caused pinholes, for instance there was a thread here that explained a situation where a lightning strike conducted through a water meter reader cable in a basement running next to a csst gas line, everywhere the cable touched a pinhole formed. Also appliances with bad ground connections have been known to ground out through the csst and cause pinholes. I just think it is scary stuff, I would never use csst, but thats just me.


 CSST has no inner or outer tube. Have you ever actually seen and handled the product?

Granted, I came by this information only recently, but as for lightening strikes -- A properly bonded installation is no more prone to lightening strikes or pinholes than any other material currently on the market.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> CSST has no inner or outer tube. Have you ever actually seen and handled the product?
> 
> Granted, I came by this information only recently, but as for lightening strikes -- A properly bonded installation is no more prone to lightening strikes or pinholes than any other material currently on the market.


When I meant inner tub I meant the ss tube that's sheilded by the plastic jacket. (I should have worded it different) And I have seen and handled the product.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mississippiplum said:


> When I meant inner tub I meant the ss tube that's sheilded by the plastic jacket. (I should have worded it different) And I have seen and handled the product.


 Did you read the bonding requirements engineered to protect the material from lightening strikes I included in my post?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Did you read the bonding requirements engineered to protect the material from lightening strikes I included in my post?


Yes I did, from what I gather, proper bonding requires a bonding clamp with a properly sized grounding conductor that terminates at a ground rod.


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