# 3500 watt Mobile home water heater



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Got a customer in a older mobile home,water heater goin out,3500 watt elements,he wants me to install a regular residential type 4500 watt water heater in its place,told him the wire is not big enough that feeds electric to it and it would have to upsized before I can do it,he does not believe it will make a difference,what say you gods of plumbing????.?


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Might be a question for an electrician.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

sparky said:


> got a customer in a older mobile home,water heater goin out,3500 watt elements,he wants me to install a regular residential type 4500 watt water heater in its place,told him the wire is not big enough that feeds electric to it and it would have to upsized before i can do it,he does not believe it will make a difference,what say you gods of plumbing????.?


time for a reprint


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

*What size breaker needs to be installed for 4500 watt 240 volt hotwater heater? *





   Answer by Sparkfighter 
Confidence votes 1.6K



*Answer for USA, Canada and countries running a 60 Hz supply service.*
You need a 30 amp 2-pole breaker and #10 AWG wire.


existing heater is probably on a 20 amp double pole breaker, you have to upgrade to 10 gauge wire and a double 30 breaker..for code...in reality but not safe or recommended, 12 gauge with a 20 amp breaker would run the double 4500 elements, but you need a saftey factor on the wiring so for code and liability you would have to upgrade the wire and breaker..


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Sparky, new construction breaker is supposed to be 30 amps for a 4500W over 4500W set of elements. You can purchase 240 volt W/H with 3800W elements. With the 3800W elements, his older breaker won't trip.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

If he insists on the 4500W unit, then he MUST have a qualified licensed electrician upgrade {beef up} his wiring. You're out of the equation at that point.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I just roughed-in for a steam generator the other day. It has a really fat electrical cord on it {elec. told me the amps, but I don't remember-they were high} I was wondering why it does not have to be hard wired like a W/H or an A/C unit. So I asked the master electrician on the job {he is from Massachusetts, he's been in the elec. trade since the 1960's} he says it is probably because no one has been electrocuted yet unplugging a steam generator. He told me that the electrical code is driven partly by injuries and fatalities.

So I started looking in my FL plumbing code book on steam generators and can't find anything specific. Anyone know what their code states regarding these units? I roughed in the steam line in copper of course, but what if some handy hack did it in PVC? I am curious what other codes state about steam generators. How about you guys up in the cold north who install boilers, does that code govern steam generators?


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

that would not be in the plumbing code book, in NY we have another code book for gas and heating appliances, and that covers boilers and all that stuff, ill try and find a copy to look in..I have installed many steam units for showers, piped in copper, some had plugs some hard wired...here is a link to free NYS code books, as you can see there are many that apply for plumbing and heating... you just have to search and figure out where a steam generator is covered..
https://archive.org/details/gov.ny.plumbing


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## Sipp (Jul 14, 2016)

The key questions are: what size wire is there now, and what size breaker is currently being used? If the wiring is 12awg, then the wiring to the water heater will need to be increased to 10awg to support 4500 watts. If the breaker isn't a 2p30A, then it and most likely the wiring will need to be upgraded.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

The appliance connector (plug) needs to be sized per the draw. Look at an electric stove, not hard wired. You may even want a twist lock plug. Appliance connectors serve as a "Disconnect". Where hard wired would either need a breaker (in site) or a service disconnect (like an AC condensing unit has).

Hot tubs etc. most likely a steam unit would need to have a point of disconnect within 5' I believe.


NEC

Article 422 covers electric appliances that may be used in a dwelling unit or in commercial and industrial locations. It also covers appliances that may be fastened in place or be cord-and-plug-connected, such as air-conditioning units, dishwashers, heating appliances, water heaters, infrared heating lamps, and so on. See 422.3 for the requirements of other articles. Also see Article 100 for the definition of appliance.
422.10 Branch-Circuit Rating
(3) Water Heaters and Steam Boilers Water heaters and steam boilers employing resistance-type immersion electric heating elements contained in an ASME-rated and stamped vessel or listed instantaneous water heaters shall be permitted to be subdivided into circuits not exceeding 120 amperes and protected at not more than 150 amperes.

422.13 Storage-Type Water Heaters
A fixed storage-type water heater that has a capacity of 450 L (120 gal) or less shall be considered a continuous load.
The revision to 422.13 specifically identifies an electric water heater with a storage capacity of 120 gal or less as a continuous load. This revision requires the branch circuit overcurrent device and conductors to be sized based on 125 percent of the water heater nameplate rating unless the overcurrent device and the assembly it is installed in are listed to be used at 100 percent of its continuous current rating. In addition, feeders and services that supply water heater branch circuits are also impacted by the fact that this type of equipment is considered to be a continuous load.
FPN: For branch-circuit rating, see 422.10.


III. Disconnecting Means
422.30 General
A means shall be provided to disconnect each appliance from all ungrounded conductors in accordance with the following sections of Part III. If an appliance is supplied by more than one source, the disconnecting means shall be grouped and identified.
422.31 Disconnection of Permanently Connected Appliances
(A) Rated at Not Over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1/ 8 Horsepower For permanently connected appliances rated at not over 300 volt-amperes or 1/ 8 hp, the branch-circuit overcurrent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.
(B) Appliances Rated Over 300 Volt-Amperes or 1/ 8 Horsepower For permanently connected appliances rated over 300 volt-amperes or 1/ 8 hp, the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the open position. The provision for locking or adding a lock to the disconnecting means shall be installed on or at the switch or circuit breaker used as the disconnecting means and shall remain in place with or without the lock installed.
Section 422.31(B) has been expanded to increase safety to maintenance and service personnel working on electrical appliances. The requirement now provides detailed information pertaining to the method of providing the disconnection required by Article 422, Part III. A device that is attached to the circuit breaker handle by a set screw is not an acceptable means to serve as a safe method of locking the device in the off position. The device must have provisions for placement of a lock on it to secure the device in the off position. The lock-out device must be part of the disconnect assembly and must remain in place after the padlock is removed, whether it is a fused disconnect switch, a single circuit breaker, or a circuit breaker in a panelboard.
FPN: For appliances employing unit switches, see 422.34.

422.33 Disconnection of Cord-and-Plug-Connected Appliances
(A) Separable Connector or an Attachment Plug and Receptacle For cord-and-plug-connected appliances, an accessible separable connector or an accessible plug and receptacle shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means. Where the separable connector or plug and receptacle are not accessible, cord-and-plug-connected appliances shall be provided with disconnecting means in accordance with 422.31.

(C) Rating The rating of a receptacle or of a separable connector shall not be less than the rating of any appliance connected thereto.
Exception: Demand factors authorized elsewhere in this Code shall be permitted to be applied to the rating of a receptacle or of a separable connector.


422.41 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Appliances Subject to Immersion
Cord-and-plug-connected portable, freestanding hydromassage units and hand-held hair dryers shall be constructed to provide protection for personnel against electrocution when immersed while in the ``on'' or ``off'' position.
Although receptacles in bathrooms of dwelling units have been required to be protected by ground-fault circuit interrupters since the 1975 edition of the Code, many receptacles in existing bathrooms are not so protected. Cord-and-plug-connected appliances such as hand-held hair dryers, curling irons, and so on, which can and have accidentally fallen into bathtubs, causing fatalities, are required to be provided with some form of protective device that is part of the appliance. Three types of protectors comply with this requirement: 
1. Appliance-leakage circuit interrupters (ALCIs) 
2. Immersion-detector circuit interrupters (IDCIs) 
3. Ground-fault circuit interrupters (GFCIs)
ALCIs de-energize the supply to the appliance when leakage current exceeds a predetermined value. IDCIs de-energize the supply when a liquid causes a conductive path between a live part and a sensor, and GFCIs de-energize the supply when the current to ground exceeds a predetermined value.

422.43 Flexible Cords
(A) Heater Cords All cord-and-plug-connected smoothing irons and electrically heated appliances that are rated at more than 50 watts and produce temperatures in excess of 121°C (250°F) on surfaces with which the cord is likely to be in contact shall be provided with one of the types of approved heater cords listed in Table 400.4.
(B) Other Heating Appliances All other cord-and-plug-connected electrically heated appliances shall be connected with one of the approved types of cord listed in Table 400.4, selected in accordance with the usage specified in that table.
422.44 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Immersion Heaters
Electric heaters of the cord-and-plug-connected immersion type shall be constructed and installed so that current-carrying parts are effectively insulated from electrical contact with the substance in which they are immersed.


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