# What do you think its worth



## Gunnar

I have a buddy who's having a garage sale Saturday and he's got some tools for sale including a drain machine. I'm gonna get there bright and early and try to snag it just curious what you guys think a good fair offer would be . Thanks


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## GREENPLUM

$75?

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## Gunnar

It costs more than that to rent lol


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## Gunnar

Man this forums really gone down the crapper


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## OpenSights

If you have roots in your main and just want to keep a machine by the cleanout like me, looks like a decent choice for the right price. Cable looks ok from the picture... 5/8, maybe 1/2". I'd say about $75 is about right. I wouldn't bring it into a customer's home and charge them.


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## KoleckeINC

I bought a k750 for 400 with a cable. And I had the buyers remorse. That inner drum is too important.


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## SewerRatz

I'd take it as long as they pay me a hundred bucks.


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## Nathan901

Have one and hate it.

Funny enough, it's in my avatar.


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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Man this forums really gone down the crapper


I don't think so, go somewhere else.

Don't get all butthurt cause nobody thinks that sewer snake is worth more than $75 

Nobody forces anyone to come here and participate. If you don't think this forum is worth coming to,,, don't log in , 

plumberkc you liked it , do you have a problem with the forum? 

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## Gunnar

Hey greenplum sounds like your the one butt hurt. I've been using this forum for about five years and was just making a general statement. Don't like my post scroll on douche everyone is entitled to their opinion. Get over yourself. I use and enjoy this forum daily and have noticed how new threads and posters have really dropped off, and I would imagine it's because of asshats like yourself. That's it for now I'm off to the zoo with my kid enjoy your day


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## Master Mark

I too have noticed that the place is going to hell pretty
badly.... Most everyone has gone elsewhere ever since Redwood
moved on so what does that tell you ??:laughing:


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## plumberkc

I do have a problem with this forum. You guys may not see it but every time you post a picture that gets picked apart for code violations you are educating GC's, Handymen, and HO's.

It's become a revolving door of new business owners getting into the trade. How difficult is it for someone to post a fake intro saying they have been a plumber for the past 25 years? 

They removed the stats from the bottom of the page but I can remember that there is something like a 100-1 ratio of visitors to members. The visitors are searching for information and you guys are providing it. 


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## GREENPLUM

plumberkc said:


> I do have a problem with this forum. You guys may not see it but every time you post a picture that gets picked apart for code violations you are educating GC's, Handymen, and HO's.
> 
> It's become a revolving door of new business owners getting into the trade. How difficult is it for someone to post a fake intro saying they have been a plumber for the past 25 years?
> 
> They removed the stats from the bottom of the page but I can remember that there is something like a 100-1 ratio of visitors to members. The visitors are searching for information and you guys are providing it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whatever, are you sent to save the plumbing world from Internethandiman 

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## GREENPLUM

Master Mark said:


> I too have noticed that the place is going to hell pretty
> badly.... Most everyone has gone elsewhere ever since Redwood
> moved on so what does that tell you ??:laughing:


Yep, it going to hell , you should delete your profile and hide 

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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Hey greenplum sounds like your the one butt hurt. I've been using this forum for about five years and was just making a general statement. Don't like my post scroll on douche everyone is entitled to their opinion. Get over yourself. I use and enjoy this forum daily and have noticed how new threads and posters have really dropped off, and I would imagine it's because of asshats like yourself. That's it for now I'm off to the zoo with my kid enjoy your day


You resort to name calling, you remind me of a teen, post up some pic of your work , ill rip you apart

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## GREENPLUM

If anyone here thinks I'm hurting there feelings or wallets, get a life, it's your fault your biz sucks, not mine, I don't owe you guys anything, I was nice and shared pic of work I did, no handiman is taking any work from me, I'm busy every week

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## Gunnar

GREENPLUM said:


> You resort to name calling, you remind me of a teen, post up some pic of your work , ill rip you apart Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Have at it buddy


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## GREENPLUM

Pipes aren't level, supports look weak nothing is symmetrical, the stuff that looks good came from the manufacturer 

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## Gunnar

GREENPLUM said:


> Pipes aren't level, supports look weak nothing is symmetrical, the stuff that looks good came from the manufacturer Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Hahah sounds like your still bitter from that hack install you got beaten up on the other day...


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## Gunnar

Are you really calling me out for supports being weak? You know how the old saying goes... People who live in glass houses ........


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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Hahah sounds like your still bitter from that hack install you got beaten up on the other day...


No idea what your talking about, keep back peddling , I'm going to assume you agree with me on you "quailty" install pic

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## GREENPLUM

I gave you a fair price for that pos sewer machine and look at the thanks I get. 

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## Gunnar

GREENPLUM said:


> I gave you a fair price for that pos sewer machine and look at the thanks I get. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



Pretty sure you began the personal attacks...perhaps you should re read the thread


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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Pretty sure you began the personal attacks...perhaps you should re read the thread


Don't think so, I am done with you though

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## GREENPLUM

Anybody else wanna comment on what this guy's mainline machine is worth

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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Man this forums really gone down the crapper


This guy needs help!

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## Gunnar

Your a weird little man


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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Your a weird little man


OK, back to name calling

And poor grammer

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## Gunnar

I'll leave the grammar to you and I'll do the plumbing..sound good hack?


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## moonapprentice

...


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## gear junkie

I wouldn't pay more than $50.


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## newyorkcity

Wouldn't the fair market value be what similar units sell for on ebay?
I think the reason for the disdain of that machine by drain cleaners here is that it is a HD rental machine - you can tell from a mile away. It has no auto-feed and looks like a small motor - I bet it's 1/2 hp.
Real drain cleaners here would laugh at my machines, but I hardly do any drain cleaning.
I have two General machines, but at least they have auto feed. Still can't stand them.

I also have a 40 year old Marco sled with a 3/4" cable, which is my go to machine. Slow and simple, but gets the job done, and you can't kill it.
I would love to get a sectional, but we have a lot of finished basements here to access the house trap. We don't have outside cleanouts. It seems like it would be a big hassle to prep the area as to not make a mess with a sectional. 
Gonna try Duracable next time after seeing other's positive reviews.


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## Drain Pro

Honestly, that is not a pros machine. I wouldn't take it if it was free. It's not worth the space it takes up. 


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## justme

wow I missed all the fun discussing the open cage **** slinging sewer machine. To me it would be worth nothing but if you were planning on using it outside it could be worth 150. Just don't use that **** slinging POS inside a customers house.


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## Flyout95

Sigh... I'll be honest, it is kinda going down the poop chute...


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## Gunnar

Thanks guys I didn't bother to go and get it so it was all for nothing lol


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## SewerRatz

Drain Pro said:


> Honestly, that is not a pros machine. I wouldn't take it if it was free. It's not worth the space it takes up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You and I actually agree on something... As I said they would have to pay me to take it.


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## Drain Pro

SewerRatz said:


> You and I actually agree on something... As I said they would have to pay me to take it.




There's hope for us yet Ron. Lol.


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## plumberkc

Drain Pro said:


> Honestly, that is not a pros machine. I wouldn't take it if it was free. It's not worth the space it takes up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Basically what everybody is trying to say is that you need a sectional. You'll never be a productive drain cleaner with a drum machine. Sectional is the only way to go. :whistling2:


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## Drain Pro

plumberkc said:


> Basically what everybody is trying to say is that you need a sectional. You'll never be a productive drain cleaner with a drum machine. Sectional is the only way to go. :whistling2:




I'm not taking that bait.


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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Thanks guys I didn't bother to go and get it so it was all for nothing lol


Not all for nothing, i learned you're a pos

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## GREENPLUM

Go figure guys, he wanted to get up early and get a pos sewer machine, we talked him outta it, he owes me an apology 

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## Gunnar

GREENPLUM said:


> Go figure guys, he wanted to get up early and get a pos sewer machine, we talked him outta it, he owes me an apology Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I owe you nothing. I asked a question and I got answers. Thought that's how a professional forum worked?


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## Gunnar

GREENPLUM said:


> Not all for nothing, i learned you're a pos Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Whatever you say hack


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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Man this forums really gone down the crapper


It is how it works, but when you make comments about how crappy this place is....well, you get called out


Gunnar said:


> I owe you nothing. I asked a question and I got answers. Thought that's how a professional forum worked?



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## GREENPLUM

Gunnar said:


> Whatever you say hack


This hack wouldn't own that pos you were going to get up early for! 

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## Gunnar

I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are To yours. It was as general statement and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. Not sure why you got so offended by that, you seem to have taken it very personal.


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## GREENPLUM

Guys, if you don't like this forum then don't log in! 



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## Gunnar

GREENPLUM said:


> Guys, if you don't like this forum then don't log in! Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


That's the spirit... Tell members who have been here for along time if they don't like it to kick rocks. Hasn't that attitude caused the drop off in membership? It really is people like you who make people not wanna post here well done. I'm sure in no time you will have the forum to yourself. Im done enjoy your day


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## gear junkie

Flyout95 said:


> Sigh... I'll be honest, it is kinda going down the poop chute...


I know...there's new "forum" out there and I'm not talking about phacme. No ads, no homeowners, no lurkers! Can't wait for everyone to be over there and have this place become a desert.


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## Gunnar

Can you pm me the forum


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## marc76075

Gunnar said:


> Can you pm me the forum


Me too


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## plumbdrum

Me three


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## moonapprentice

Me four


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## CTs2p2

Don't leave me out lol


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## wharfrat

gear junkie said:


> I know...there's new "forum" out there and I'm not talking about phacme. No ads, no homeowners, no lurkers! Can't wait for everyone to be over there and have this place become a desert.


Lead us to the promised land.


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## plumberkc

gear junkie said:


> I know...there's new "forum" out there and I'm not talking about phacme. No ads, no homeowners, no lurkers! Can't wait for everyone to be over there and have this place become a desert.


I did a Google search but didn't find anything. In the process a found a couple dozen sites encouraging homeowners to join plumbing forums even if they are for pros only. 

http://howtounclogadrain.com/inthehome/how_plumbing_forums_can_be_beneficial_

http://clogged.info/drains/how_plumbing_forums_can_be_beneficial_

http://www.purevolume.com/abeljohan...ms+Can+Be+Beneficial+to+be+able+to+Homeowners


"By Ana M Fraser

In the dictionary the word forum is described as a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest. Ten years ago your first thought when you brought up the word forum might have been a Town Hall meeting, but with the Internet today, the younger generation would automatically think about a digital online forum.

There are forums on the internet for just about any topic you can think of. Go on to a search engine and type "dating forums," or type "teaching forums," and you are bound to find a few pages of results of forums that you can join.
Joining forums is beneficial because it gives people the opportunity to ask questions of other professionals, or just to kick around ideas with people who have similar interests.

You may be wondering why I, a plumbing professional, am talking about forums as it seems out of my realm of expertise, but it isn't! Plumbing forums dot the web too, and I, as a professional, gain a lot from being a member of these forums, but average homeowners can also benefit from being a part of plumbing forums.

If you are a member of a plumbing forum, you can simply go online and ask questions about plumbing issues that are going on in your home, and you can get real answers from real plumbers within hours! Just make sure you sign up for the right plumbing sites. Some forums are for professionals only, and if you get on to those forums when you are not a plumbing professional, the other members will give you a hard time. But don't worry, there are lots of forums online for homeowners who are just looking for a little help.

To get started with this process, just log onto the Internet, go to a search engine, and type in "plumbing forums." Look through the list of results, and find a forum that sounds right to you. A good forum for you should we one that is not exclusively for professionals, and that looks like it has a good amount of activity. If a forum has not been posted on in the last few days, it is probably a dud. Read through some of the posts by other members, and if it seems like people are getting a lot of answers to their questions, then go ahead and sign up!
Start getting involved in forums, and you'll be well educated on plumbing issues in no time."


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## Plumber

it is called plumberslacker.com


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## gear junkie

Oh I forgot to mention.....there's almost 0% chance it'll ever go down and no one can hide their identities. Because no one is hiding, the keyboard tough guy attitudes are almost nil

Hit me up on FB and I'll tell you where. One too many lurkers on here for me to post it publicly.


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## Gunnar

gear junkie said:


> Oh I forgot to mention.....there's almost 0% chance it'll ever go down and no one can hide their identities. Because no one is hiding, the keyboard tough guy attitudes are almost nil Hit me up on FB and I'll tell you where. One too many lurkers on here for me to post it publicly.


 I tried to send you a private message but your inbox is full. I don't have you on my fb, if you could send me a message about the new forum
That would be great. Thanks


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## Debo22

Please pm me this forum you speak of


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## gear junkie

It's a private group but there's alot of us on there. Shootn, Best Darn Sewer, Loves 2 Surf, Bulldozer, Rocksteady, Sewer Rat. Myself or any of us can add you to the group. Send me a friend request (or any of us) on FB so we can add you. 

That group is so busy, I'd have the notifications turned off otherwise you'd never get any work done. It doesn't replace the forums all together but most of the time you just want a fast answer and that's a good spot for it. Plus I've seen and learned so many new things there that it's worth it to join FB just to get on that group.

Plus if you don't like it, start your own private group. These times of forum creators making money off of our knowledge to sell ad space are going to quickly be thing of the past. Pshhh.....write your own article.


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## Qplumb

Found this while searching plumbing forums

Only weeks after leaving office on Jan. 20, 2017, former President Barack Obama discovers a leak under his sink, so he calls Troy the Plumber to come out and fix it.

Troy drives to Obama’s new house, which is located in a very exclusive, gated community near Chicago where all the residents have a net income of way more than $250,000 per year.

Troy arrives and takes his tools into the house. He is led to the guest bathroom that contains the leaky pipe under the sink. Troy assesses the problem and tells Obama that it’s an easy repair that will take less than 10 minutes. Obama asks Troy how much it will cost. Troy checks his rate chart and says, “$9,500.”

“What?! $9,500?!” Obama asks, stunned, “But you said it’s an easy repair. Michelle will whip me if I pay a plumber that much!”

Troy says, “Yes, but what I do is charge those who make more than $250,000 per year a much higher amount so I can fix the plumbing of poorer people for free. This has always been my philosophy. As a matter of fact, I lobbied the Democrat Congress, who passed this philosophy into law. Now all plumbers must do business this way. It’s known as the ‘Affordable Plumbing Act of 2014′. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of it.”

In spite of that, Obama tells Troy there’s no way he’s paying that much for a small plumbing repair, so Troy leaves. Obama spends the next hour flipping through the phone book calling for another plumber, but he finds that all other plumbing businesses in the area have gone out of business. Not wanting to pay Troy’s price, Obama does nothing and the leak goes un-repaired for several more days. A week later the leak is so bad Obama has had to put a bucket under the sink.

Michelle is not happy as she has Oprah and guests arriving the next morning. The bucket fills up quickly and has to be emptied every hour, and there’s a risk the room will flood, so Obama calls Troy and pleads with him to return.

Troy goes back to Obama’s house, looks at the leaky pipe, checks his new rate chart and says, “Let’s see, this will now cost you $21,000.”

Obama quickly fires back, “What? A few days ago you told me it would cost $9,500!”

Troy explains, “Well, because of the ‘Affordable Plumbing Act,’ a lot of wealthier people are learning how to maintain and take care of their own plumbing, so there are fewer payers in the plumbing exchanges. As a result, the price I have to charge wealthy people like you keeps rising. Not only that, but for some reason the demand for plumbing work by those who get it for free has skyrocketed! There’s a long waiting list of those who need repairs, but the amount we get doesn’t cover our costs, especially paperwork and record-keeping. This unfortunately has put a lot of my fellow plumbers out of business, they’re not being replaced, and nobody is going into the plumbing business because they know they can’t make any money at it. I’m hurting too, all thanks to greedy rich people like you who won’t pay their ‘fair share’. On the other hand, why didn’t you buy plumbing insurance last December? If you had bought plumbing insurance available under the ‘Affordable Plumbing Act,’ all this would have been covered by your policy.”

“You mean I wouldn’t have to pay anything to have you fix my plumbing problem?” asks Obama.

“Well, not exactly,” replies Troy. “You would have had to buy the insurance before the deadline, which has passed now. And, because you’re rich, you would have had to pay $34,000 in premiums, which would have given you a ‘silver’ plan, and then, since this would have been your first repair, you would have to pay up to the $21,000 deductible, and anything over that would have a $7,500 co-pay, and then there’s the mandatory maintenance program, which is covered up to 17.5%, so there are some costs involved. Nothing is for free.”

“WHAT?!” exclaims Obama. “Why so much for a puny sink leak?!”

With a bland look, Troy replies, “Well, paperwork, mostly, like I said. And the internal cost of the program itself. You don’t think a program of this complexity and scope can run itself, do you? Besides, there are millions of folks with lower incomes than you, even many in the ‘middle class’, who qualify for subsidies that people like you must support. That’s why they call it the ‘Affordable Plumbing Act’! Only people who don’t make much money can afford it. If you want affordable plumbing, you’ll have to give away most of what you have accumulated and cut your and Michelle’s income by about 90%. Then you can qualify to get your ‘Fair Share’ instead of giving it.”

“But who would pass a crazy act like the ‘Affordable Plumbing Act’?!” exclaims the exasperated Obama.

After a sigh, Troy replies, “Congress… because they didn’t read it.”

This anecdote, while amusing, is also extraordinarily truthful, in that Obamacare functions just like the fictional “Affordable Plumbing Act.”

It inflates the costs of health care, drives providers out of business and reduces the incentive for hard work — because why should one work hard when he or she can get healthcare (or plumbing) for absolutely free?

Socialism basically does to the country the same thing it did to it in Ayn Rand’s classic novel, “Atlas Shrugged” — it turns it upside down.

It also does nothing to fix the real problem, much like the “Affordable Plumbing Act” did nothing whatsoever to help poor Barry with that awful leak in the bathroom!


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## Debo22

gear junkie said:


> I know...there's new "forum" out there and I'm not talking about phacme. No ads, no homeowners, no lurkers! Can't wait for everyone to be over there and have this place become a desert.


Are Tommyplumber and Phatcat over there too, it seems like they jumped ship also.


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## gear junkie

Debo22 said:


> Are Tommyplumber and Phatcat over there too, it seems like they jumped ship also.


Not that I can tell but I don't look for people on FB. I understand everyone has their own needed level of privacy.


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## Plumber

Actually, I was hoping for the opposite. That the internet and all its distractions would get old. That people would focus more on their reality, instead of the numbing escapism. 

I've been told that genius will find a way around the new distractions. That the young doers and shakers won't be fazed by the distractions. I don't believe it entirely. 

I've got to wash the bike. I put on a new S&S ac today.


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## Flyout95

gear junkie said:


> I know...there's new "forum" out there and I'm not talking about phacme. No ads, no homeowners, no lurkers! Can't wait for everyone to be over there and have this place become a desert.


Link?


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## gear junkie

Flyout95 said:


> Link?


Read 5 comments up


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## Plumber

gear junkie said:


> Read 5 comments up


What's wrong with phacme? I thought it was your answer to commercialism?


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## gear junkie

Plumber said:


> What's wrong with phacme? I thought it was your answer to commercialism?


Not a thing and it's an awesome resource but it has maybe 20 active members. This other group has way more active member then here so I'm exposed to more. Each one is great but in their own way.


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## Drain Pro

gear junkie said:


> Not a thing and it's an awesome resource but it has maybe 20 active members. This other group has way more active member then here so I'm exposed to more. Each one is great but in their own way.




I would love to be more active in Phacme, but it doesn't seem as if anyone is in there.


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## PlungerJockey

Drain Pro said:


> I would love to be more active in Phacme, but it doesn't seem as if anyone is in there.


That's because most of us are busy with plumbing,life or watching ****!


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## plumberkc

gear junkie said:


> Not a thing and it's an awesome resource but it has maybe 20 active members. This other group has way more active member then here so I'm exposed to more. Each one is great but in their own way.



There are actually 39 active members at this moment and 311 total members, with one giant asterisks. 

*All members are verified plumbers


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## justme

Drain Pro said:


> I would love to be more active in Phacme, but it doesn't seem as if anyone is in there.


All you have to do is start a good conversation over at Phacme and watch what happens , they will come. At Phacme that is. The guys at Phacme are good people. Go ahead and ask me about the guys/gals at Phacme,good people. Phacme is the place to be.


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## gear junkie

plumberkc said:


> There are actually 39 active members at this moment and 311 total members, with one giant asterisks.
> 
> *All members are verified plumbers


Well kinda. All those 311 members are not real plumbers, sometimes bots, sometimes lurkers, etc. BUT.......BUT........all the members in the private section are 100% legit....even the crazy one. 

That's why I only post my really good stuff there. I can post without worry a lurker will read it. This place is alright but I'm really only here to talk to about 5 of you guys that stay only here. If you guys left, I'd be gone in heartbeat


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## Plumber

plumberkc said:


> There are actually 39 active members at this moment and 311 total members, with one giant asterisks.
> 
> *All members are verified plumbers





justme said:


> All you have to do is start a good conversation over at Phacme and watch what happens , they will come. At Phacme that is. The guys at Phacme are good people. Go ahead and ask me about the guys/gals at Phacme,good people. Phacme is the place to be.





gear junkie said:


> Well kinda. All those 311 members are not real plumbers, sometimes bots, sometimes lurkers, etc. BUT.......BUT........all the members in the private section are 100% legit....even the crazy one.
> 
> That's why I only post my really good stuff there. I can post without worry a lurker will read it. This place is alright but I'm really only here to talk to about 5 of you guys that stay only here. If you guys left, I'd be gone in heartbeat


Have you noticed that the PZ management hasn't deleted or booted you guys? It's like you're just a few of many and pretty damn unimportant to them. There is a huge lesson to be learned from their inaction. I just wish I know what it was.

This forum is all I post at and to be honest, if I was 20 years younger, I wouldn't even be posting at all anywhere. This here old age is pulling me down to your level. Sucks to be you, I mean me, I mean us.

Get a life. Turn off your internet and go outside and play.


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## fixitright

Gunnar said:


> I have a buddy who's having a garage sale Saturday and he's got some tools for sale including a drain machine. I'm gonna get there bright and early and try to snag it just curious what you guys think a good fair offer would be . Thanks



I pick up a beast like that every now and then for cheap. No more than 
$100 - $150 or less and resell them. Last one for $400.00

They're great for the homeowner who needs their line cleaned every few months. If they remember to do it. 

I remember years back when folks wanted to feed and return the cable by hand so to FEEL the cable. Looks like a lot of work.


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## Tommy plumber

Debo22 said:


> Are Tommyplumber and Phatcat over there too, it seems like they jumped ship also.














I'm still here. And so is Phat cat. I was out of town for a few days, that's why I haven't posted in a few days.


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## plumbdrum

Tommy plumber said:


> I'm still here. And so is Phat cat. I was out of town for a few days, that's why I haven't posted in a few days.


Welcome back!!!


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## Tommy plumber

plumbdrum said:


> Welcome back!!!














Thank you. I was upstate NY. 

It was a bit chilly for late April and early May. My mom had her winter coat on and asked me to put the heat on.


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## OpenSights

Plumber said:


> Have you noticed that the PZ management hasn't deleted or booted you guys? It's like you're just a few of many and pretty damn unimportant to them. There is a huge lesson to be learned from their inaction. I just wish I know what it was.
> 
> This forum is all I post at and to be honest, if I was 20 years younger, I wouldn't even be posting at all anywhere. This here old age is pulling me down to your level. Sucks to be you, I mean me, I mean us.
> 
> Get a life. Turn off your internet and go outside and play.


You do make some good points Plumber. I hate to see it, but the activity on PZ has hit a major speed bump. I see both the members' side and the site owner's position. I've run a few forums, one was a 2A/1A site. Our AUP was quite simple... too simple really. We had highs and lows, but eventually we decided to just pull the plug due to a dramatic decline traffic. 

PZ, unlike my forum, is essentially a business. A business exists to generate income. Income from a web forum can come in a number of ways such as annual dues and or add's. PZ doesn't charge any member fee and AFAIK it's only source of income is the ads. With more traffic to the site, the ad companies pay the host more money. So the more traffic, no matter what kind, the higher the income.

The problem with PZ is there is no place for us to discuss the secrets/lifelong earned skills of the trade without JoeShmoe DIY HandyHack reading all about it, thinking he has the knowledge, and in the end becoming a liability to himself and others. I haven't read the small print here in sometime, but I'm sure there are legal disclaimers giving the site owner(s) immunity to any liability of the contents here.

Probably too late to make a sub forum for verified members to talk... plus the added administrative headache of trying to figure out a way determining who's in and who's not. Not to mention what would be the rest of the site's content, would there still be enough traffic to generate a profit?


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## OpenSights

fixitright said:


> I pick up a beast like that every now and then for cheap. No more than
> $100 - $150 or less and resell them. Last one for $400.00
> 
> They're great for the homeowner who needs their line cleaned every few months. If they remember to do it.
> 
> I remember years back when folks wanted to feed and return the cable by hand so to FEEL the cable. Looks like a lot of work.


My thoughts for this machine as well. However, at least around here, I wouldn't trust the average HO with a machine like this one.

I love and use my auto feed, mostly because it's an added convenience. I had to run a k750 for about 6 months without an auto feed because the boss wouldn't order new bearings. I will have to say it made me a better drain cleaner. Taught me even more respect and the feel. However, the chances of a catastrophic failure resulting in injury and or damage greatly increases running without a feeder.


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## Plumber

OpenSights said:


> You do make some good points Plumber. I hate to see it, but the activity on PZ has hit a major speed bump. I see both the members' side and the site owner's position. I've run a few forums, one was a 2A/1A site. Our AUP was quite simple... too simple really. We had highs and lows, but eventually we decided to just pull the plug due to a dramatic decline traffic.
> 
> PZ, unlike my forum, is essentially a business. A business exists to generate income. Income from a web forum can come in a number of ways such as annual dues and or add's. PZ doesn't charge any member fee and AFAIK it's only source of income is the ads. With more traffic to the site, the ad companies pay the host more money. So the more traffic, no matter what kind, the higher the income.
> 
> The problem with PZ is there is no place for us to discuss the secrets/lifelong earned skills of the trade without JoeShmoe DIY HandyHack reading all about it, thinking he has the knowledge, and in the end becoming a liability to himself and others. I haven't read the small print here in sometime, but I'm sure there are legal disclaimers giving the site owner(s) immunity to any liability of the contents here.
> 
> Probably too late to make a sub forum for verified members to talk... plus the added administrative headache of trying to figure out a way determining who's in and who's not. Not to mention what would be the rest of the site's content, would there still be enough traffic to generate a profit?


If this was a hobbyist site, I'd agree. It is a site for working class construction workers, though. 

Sorry, but to me the guys you hold up as Forum Heroes are Forum Losers. WTF are they doing posting 365/24/7 when they should be working or be with family? To say that 100k posts on plumbing forums is weird isn't saying enough.

I can see retired, semi-retired (like me) or unemployed spending a bit of time during the day, but forums are full of unemployable or Owners Sons. Not a healthy place. Listen, in real life I'm barely socially acceptable. I can get jammed up buying a loaf of bread and frequently do. My real life rep is terrible. Does that translate to a good forum poster? No, it doesn't for me nor for forum rats. 

As for professional advice....that's what inspectors and code books are for. That's what lawyers and accountants are for. That's what your wife is for. If I wanted serious advice from the internet, I'd join Mike Diamond's forum or some such. Well, maybe not Mike's: he'd probably try to convert me to Gayism or Judaism or both (Hi ya , Mike!).


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## Letterrip

Plumber said:


> As for professional advice....that's what inspectors and code books are for. That's what lawyers and accountants are for. That's what your wife is for.




Can't really agree with this. I would say that a majority of inspectors locally know what the code says. They aren't in the field any longer and haven't been for some time. They can't tell you what products last. Which ones are terribly designed or install easily. Many know nothing about running a plumbing business or the associated headaches of dealing with insurances, supply house bills, inventory management, etc... Those who are in business locally are willing to share ideas so long as they aren't giving up any competitive edge. They also are concerned about being accused of collusion. 

Internet forums give us access to other professionals who are in the trenches and can relate to the challenges. I have learned so much from Internet forums over the last several years from people who were willing to share sensitive business info. Just need the right setting and people.


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## OpenSights

Plumber said:


> If this was a hobbyist site, I'd agree. It is a site for working class construction workers, though.
> 
> Sorry, but to me the guys you hold up as Forum Heroes are Forum Losers. WTF are they doing posting 365/24/7 when they should be working or be with family? To say that 100k posts on plumbing forums is weird isn't saying enough.
> 
> I can see retired, semi-retired (like me) or unemployed spending a bit of time during the day, but forums are full of unemployable or Owners Sons. Not a healthy place. Listen, in real life I'm barely socially acceptable. I can get jammed up buying a loaf of bread and frequently do. My real life rep is terrible. Does that translate to a good forum poster? No, it doesn't for me nor for forum rats.
> 
> As for professional advice....that's what inspectors and code books are for. That's what lawyers and accountants are for. That's what your wife is for. If I wanted serious advice from the internet, I'd join Mike Diamond's forum or some such. Well, maybe not Mike's: he'd probably try to convert me to Gayism or Judaism or both (Hi ya , Mike!).


My point was... nevermind...


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## gear junkie

OpenSights said:


> You do make some good points Plumber. I hate to see it, but the activity on PZ has hit a major speed bump. I see both the members' side and the site owner's position. I've run a few forums, one was a 2A/1A site. Our AUP was quite simple... too simple really. We had highs and lows, but eventually we decided to just pull the plug due to a dramatic decline traffic.
> 
> PZ, unlike my forum, is essentially a business. A business exists to generate income. Income from a web forum can come in a number of ways such as annual dues and or add's. PZ doesn't charge any member fee and AFAIK it's only source of income is the ads. With more traffic to the site, the ad companies pay the host more money. So the more traffic, no matter what kind, the higher the income.
> 
> *The problem with PZ is there is no place for us to discuss the secrets/lifelong earned skills of the trade without JoeShmoe DIY HandyHack reading all about it, *thinking he has the knowledge, and in the end becoming a liability to himself and others. I haven't read the small print here in sometime, but I'm sure there are legal disclaimers giving the site owner(s) immunity to any liability of the contents here.
> 
> Probably too late to make a sub forum for verified members to talk... plus the added administrative headache of trying to figure out a way determining who's in and who's not. Not to mention what would be the rest of the site's content, would there still be enough traffic to generate a profit?


There is such a place on PZ...the business secret section but the administrators have said it's only for private business stuff, not regular plumbing stuff. Why? My thought is if everything went into that section, visitor traffic would slow down.

Plumber I can see your point to a certain degree....can't live life in front of screen. However networking with other professionals has allowed to succeed far more then if I stayed by myself. 

Another thought on the forums.....look into franchising....what is one of there selling points? Here's from the Mr. Rooter website....http://www.leadingtheserviceindustry.com/mr-rooter-llc/

Proprietary System: Our unique business model is designed for improving overall profitability and sustainability, including state of the art software to streamline operations.

*Ongoing training and support: Our Sure Start training prepares you for all aspects of operations including scheduling, finances, recruiting/hiring and employee/technician retention. A dedicated Franchise Consultant will coach you for your first year.* Franchisees in their second year of operation and after will be assigned a Regional Service Manager to advise them when needed.
Registered trademarks and a designated territory: We make sure you are protected.

M*arketing, marketing, and more marketing: Superior marketing strategies and support offered through several methods:*
Web: Leading web presence, national and customizable website, bold online social media presence, SEO optimization, and reputation management
Media: National and local media coverage and PR, consistent advertising
Client Integration tools: An online software system to receive client feedback and ensure their satisfaction, a referral program to increase word-of-mouth advertising, automated personalized in-home service reminders and marketing pieces, back marketing email drip campaigns
*Continuous innovation: The Mr. Rooter marketing team keeps ahead of trends and is always looking and learning new ways to keep the Mr. Rooter brand the most recognized plumbing brand in the business.*
*Nationwide networking support: You’ll have over 190 fellow Mr. Rooter franchisees to consult with, PLUS the opportunity to meet up at Regional and National Conferences. That’s a LOT of people to “talk shop” with.*

A whole lot of that is stuff we already get on the forums....for free.


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## Debo22

My wife calls this site my Facebook because it's my only social media outlet. It is fun but also very educational.


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## plbgbiz

Seems a bit short-sighted to vilify others for what they do or don't do with their free time.


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## Drain Pro

I enjoy posting on this forum. I'm very interested in my trade and business and I enjoy discussing it with fellow tradesmen. I've made several friends on this site and have gained valuable insight on equipment and other industry related products and services. If someone doesn't like excessive posting or spending time here, that individual and us would be better off without them here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wyrickmech

The main reason any of us post our work or discuss our work is to learn. So be it if I love what I do to the point I just can't get enough new ways to make it better neater and just all around dam good looking ****. This sight is a way of doing that and maybe a hack is watching or will try to get free advice but they are usually easy to spot. The ones that try doing what we do just off of advice or a picture are normally calling for you to come and fix what they screwed up.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Tommy plumber said:


> Thank you. I was upstate NY.
> 
> It was a bit chilly for late April and early May. My mom had her winter coat on and asked me to put the heat on.


where abouts upstate? I have a place between oneonta and cooperstown, up here now for a week...
I have also noticed the huge decrease in activity in the past weeks, thought it was just my imagination....:icon_confused:


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## plumberkc

Plumber must have forgotten that he has one of the highest post counts here. I usually skip over most of them because they are usually too long and have nothing to offer in terms of business or plumbing advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GREENPLUM

😎Seems I started Plumbing forum Mass exodus!,,,minus the exodus.🤔

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Drain Pro

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> where abouts upstate? I have a place between oneonta and cooperstown, up here now for a week...
> I have also noticed the huge decrease in activity in the past weeks, thought it was just my imagination....:icon_confused:




I got married in Oneonta and had my reception at an old farm house in Franklin. Gods country up there. As a matter of fact we played "In Gods Country " by U2 after we said our nuptials on a beautiful mountain top. Also, I'm a big fan of Brooks BBQ. It's unique.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Drain Pro said:


> I got married in Oneonta and had my reception at an old farm house in Franklin. Gods country up there. As a matter of fact we played "In Gods Country " by U2 after we said our nuptials on a beautiful mountain top. Also, I'm a big fan of Brooks BBQ. It's unique.


cool, brooks has some good chicken, its all in the sauce...oneonta is about 25 minutes from my house upstate.. im back in the agricultural area and boarder state land..no neighbors, nice and peaceful..a good place to recharge from the daily nonsense of long island..


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## Tommy plumber

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> where abouts upstate? I have a place between oneonta and cooperstown, up here now for a week...
> I have also noticed the huge decrease in activity in the past weeks, thought it was just my imagination....:icon_confused:
















Orange County just north of Rockland County.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Tommy plumber said:


> Orange County just north of Rockland County.


thats more like the extension of the 5 boros..lol....im up in ostego county..thats upstate..


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## Tommy plumber

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> thats more like the extension of the 5 boros..lol....im up in ostego county..thats upstate..












I know. My cousins in Brooklyn thought I lived "up in the sticks."....:laughing:

But Rockland where I was born and raised, is only {25} north of the GWB.


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## Drain Pro

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> cool, brooks has some good chicken, its all in the sauce...oneonta is about 25 minutes from my house upstate.. im back in the agricultural area and boarder state land..no neighbors, nice and peaceful..a good place to recharge from the daily nonsense of long island..




I love it up there. Spent a lot of time in Cobbleskill. Great change of pace from the liberal sh*thole that is NYC.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Drain Pro said:


> I love it up there. Spent a lot of time in Cobbleskill. Great change of pace from the liberal sh*thole that is NYC.


Agreed, they could split NY into 2 states..liberal nyc and long island ..and the rest of NY..upstate is completely different ..but the last governors election gave me some hope for long island, as cuomo lost in suffolk county and almost tied in nassau, it was nyc and the 5 boros that put him back in office....


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## newyorkcity

Long Island is a mess. If it weren't for my in laws, I would have left already.
The gritty, forgotten area in Brooklyn called Red Hook where I work has endeared itself to me ever since Hurricane Sandy. No lights for 2 weeks after sundown, due to no electricity, and no crime. While pumping out a basement around the corner, people I didn't know asked me if I wanted a sandwich while they were heading out, since there was no food.

As far as PZ goes, there is a lot of talent and some very accomplished people here. I know what the pros and cons are for a public forum, so I post accordingly.
I just think the members here can do a better job of not eating our own, specifically when someone has the guts to post their work.
As far as Plumber's comments go: I guess you need one of these in every group for comedy relief. The fellow puts down people who use the forum, but he has spent more time changing his avatar than anyone here. 
Also, I miss Redwood, even though the pizza where he comes from is 2nd to ours.. Get back here!


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Im looking to head upstate permanent soon( not soon enough...LOL), ill keep my licenses active in the main towns in nassau and suffolk and I can reciprocate to oneonta and most of the areas that have licenses up here ...and work when I want to...its much cheaper to live up here than the island....and a MUCH better quality of life....I can open the back door put up a target and shoot away..no neighbors to complain..not that they would up here for hearing shots fired..lol


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## 89plumbum

plbgbiz said:


> Seems a bit short-sighted to vilify others for what they do or don't do with their free time.


"Que Sera, Sera"


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## Plumber

Too many slackers on forums. Internet addiction is affecting more than just slackers, though. Maybe because it's still new, I don't know. I do know the addiction is attracting the attention of health and education folk.

This internet is fine in small doses. I've been saying for more than 7 years that if you have a post count more than one a day, you got a problem. I wasn't joking. My post count is higher than it ever was in the last 20 years because I'm old and boring. I'm embarrassed by the count.

Internet addiction is real and it might be affecting more than just slackers. Slackers suck, btw.


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## fixitright

"Que Sera, Sera"

Wonder how many here know who Doris was?


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## ShtRnsdownhill




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## Plumber

Que?


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## fixitright

Remembering how devastated my wife at the time of his death was when I told her Rock Hudson swung for the other team.


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## plbgbiz

fixitright said:


> "Que Sera, Sera" Wonder how many here know who Doris was?


 Probably not near enough.


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## Debo22

fixitright said:


> Remembering how devastated my wife at the time of his death was when I told her Rock Hudson swung for the other team.


Yep, died from botulism. Bad meat in the can.


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## Phat Cat

Debo22 said:


> Are Tommyplumber and Phatcat over there too, it seems like they jumped ship also.


I am still here. Life got incredibly busy and complicated almost overnight. Escapism needed to take a backseat for a while.


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## Debo22

Phat Cat said:


> I am still here. Life got incredibly busy and complicated almost overnight. Escapism needed to take a backseat for a while.


I hope all is well, glad to see you back.


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## Phat Cat

I could complain, but no one wants to hear it. In the grand scheme of things very little matters on a day to day basis. What was of the utmost importance yesterday becomes meaningless tomorrow.

Each day we wake up and put our best foot forward and hope that in the end we made a difference. That when all is said and done, we did more good than bad, leaving the world a little better place.


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