# SLAB LEAK advice needed



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

I've been tracking down a slab leak for TWO DAYS NOW, ugh! I can usually get em in 1-3 hours! I do quite a bit of them here in socal, but this one is a rarity. First off the place is very cluttered, so lots of time pulling **** from cabinets, moving heavy furniture, etc. Leak detector cannot hear ANY leaking sound at manifolds or stops anywhere. Ground mic hears nothing either. water is showing through wood flooring In kitchen slightly and spreading to carpet nearby but very slowly. My line locators kinda useless cause of a couple rerouted lines from the past, so i can't figure out which lines are dead or active just yet. HO has no history of the home to give me either. Also its a condo so there's really not much room to trace properly anyway. alsoooo remodeling had me chasing a hidden manifold or two capped in the wall. The ONLY thing telling me there's IS a leak is the wood flooring filling up with water, and a test gauge on the house that drops pressure when I put the home under test. But I'm talking like a drop of 5-10 psi in like 25!min or more. I think I have the place mapped out pretty well now though. I spent the day trying to eliminate sections of the home one at time, but keep getting inconsistent results of drops in pressure at equal time intervals...also ive caught a couple leaking stops which negated a couple of tests...Jesus!!

Normally i put a home under test, shutoff anglestops and can watch the pressure gauge drop by 20psi or so within 5 min and dropping. 
I'll shutoff the WH to find out if it's hot or cold. 
I'll listen all over to determine most likely manifolds to start at. 
Open the wall at manifold, open most likely suspect ill cut open and see if the water holds. I'll trace line out and individually test line to confirm. 
At least that's the basics of most of my slab leak calls routine 

This one my equipment is useless so it seems I'm back to finding this leak the way they did it in the 60s i guess- no fancy electronics
Now that I've Swiss cheesed the pad with holes everywhere, I think I pretty much have the place mapped out. 
My next step is to get a
Tank of nitrogen and individually test the lines with a GREAT deal of more
pressure to listen for. But Im basically just manually testing lines now with no real direction to go in. Meanwhile my Cust' bill is climbing every hour. Kinda time consuming and I hate handing over such a large bill just to FIND IT! 

Is this similar to your process??? 

What would you guys do at his point? The same? Any tips to try or other methods? 

Thanks guys 
Jobs like this just draaaain my confidence and I hate it.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Mind if I PM?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Have you ruled out leaks above the slab such as icemakers and lines, dishwasher supplies, faucet supplies and drains?

The slow pressure drop has me thinking you are looking for something that may not exist...


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Could you possibly pull some carpet back, dry it & see which direction the waters coming from?
Or maybe leaking from a neighboring unit?


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Have you ruled out leaks above the slab such as icemakers and lines, dishwasher supplies, faucet supplies and drains?
> 
> The slow pressure drop has me thinking you are looking for something that may not exist...


 
My biggest fear is busting things up and it being something like that


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

I edited my first post a little to give more info but yeah, I've checked icemaker and dishwasher, supply and stops. It seems the water is spreading pretty well under the hardwood which doesn't usually happen with a pinhole in the wall or leak above ground without pretty wet drywall(which usually is consistent with a quiet leak on my machine) but the wall are mostly all dry so far and the damage spreading under the flooring mostly 

I too thought i was chasing something not there but the gauge proves a water loss somewherenand the spreading of damage does as well.....or so I think. I've shutoff toilets and made sure no dripping shower heads or lavs


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

The water is in the center of the kitcnen floor and dining room so its kinda far from the neighboring units, but I did think about it. Also I've pulled carpet and water is coming from under wood flooring to the carpet area. But VERY slowly


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I have only seen a slab leak that leaks above the floor 1 time in 18 years. I think the water leak is above the slab or you have 2 leaks. The only time I have seen a slab leak, that seeped water above the floor was on a recently constructed home taht had sleeved copper pipe.

I would find the source of the water. In my experience it's not possible for the water to seep up thru the concrete. I would start cutting drywall near the water you see.


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Must be Different areas my friend. Almost all the calls I get are slab leaks that are flooding a home or damaging the floor of a part of the home. All of em were Slab leaks that penetrate the foundation. I do at least 3- 5 a month on average


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

voltatab said:


> Must be Different areas my friend. Almost all the calls I get are slab leaks that are flooding a home or damaging the floor of a part of the home. All of em were Slab leaks that penetrate the foundation. I do at least 3- 5 a month on average



since your this far into it at this point I would suggest first determine whether it is hot or cold . Then which ever one is the suspect taking all the appropriate manifolds apart and testing each line individually. Then from there you can determine what would be the best course of action either busting the floor or rerouting.But such a small pressure drop makes me suspect something else entirely , I know when I was doing slab leaks that when I put a gauge on the hose bib and yard line valve off that it would usually fall out to 0 psi fairly quickly with a slab leak


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

THATS whats bothering me do damn much!!!

I get nothing dropping to zero in pressure ( at least not in an hour) but the squishing and sloshing of water more and more in the center of the home?????!

I'm going to separate all lines and pressurize individually. I know thats crazy but I've never had a slab leak that didn't register on a leak detector or drop to close to zero on a Gauge. I'm Back to trial and error it seems which just feels like amateur hour to me. I guess I'm just always thinking that there's someone else out there who knows more and could school me.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

voltatab said:


> THATS whats bothering me do damn much!!!
> 
> I guess I'm just always thinking that there's someone else out there who knows more and could school me.



No matter how much you know or how long you have been in this business there is always someone who knows more and been doing it longer and this applies to everyone everywhere.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I was working on the 4th floor of a condo. There was a water leak. I could not find it. I isolated the issue coming from a half bath area. Out of frustration I pulled the toilet and discovered 4 spacer flanges. The leak was a triple wax seal and the spacers from the toilet leaking under the wood floor.

Check the condensate line for the air handler as well. The water should be colder than normal when it is a condensate line. I would also look for water heater pan drain lines that may be leaking inside of the wall from other units or possibly relief drain lines. Where is the washing machine located it could be leaking from the sum of the wm?

Could there be a cracked stack inside the wall that services other untis in the condo?


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

voltatab said:


> I get nothing dropping to zero in pressure ( at least not in an hour) but the squishing and sloshing of water more and more in the center of the home?????!


I'm unclear as to what you're saying here exactly but, if you are saying a leak down test is showing no leak in the slab and you're listening equipment doesn't register anything then I would be looking above grade.

I had a basement mystery leak one time on a three storey residence that others weren't able to track down. Turned out to be - believe it or not - a bad tank to bowl seal on an infrequently used toilet on the third floor. Even from inches away, you couldn't see the water. I just happened to sweep my hand along the baseboard behind the offending toilet after a flush, and there it was.

Could you have a similar situation maybe?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

This might sound stupid, but you might try running hot water to the suspected areas. We had a leak that only seemed to seep when the pipes were hot.

Scary as crap to dig down to the pipe and see mud, clear it away and find no leak. most of the houses are copper loop here so it was a whole lot easier to id the lines.

Just my .02 pre tax


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Put some food grade dye in the domestic water distribution system. Use plenty. Use different colors and isolate hot and cold. Disconnect or turn off mixing type faucets, so no cross connection is possible. If you see the colored water, you'll have a bit more of a clue.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

If you can drill some small holes through the slab big enough for a 3/8 copper supply tube just to determine if ground is even wet.

The water tables are high in my area and leaks under the slab often come up.

As mentioned, possible wax ring leak between concrete and tile heading to low spot.(i was third plumber there) 

Had a ice line leak once. When I pulled the fridge out it would'nt leak but as soon as I pushed it back in it would start again. One of those metal braided one pcs lines.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

voltatab said:


> THATS whats bothering me do damn much!!!
> 
> I get nothing dropping to zero in pressure ( at least not in an hour) but the squishing and sloshing of water more and more in the center of the home?????!
> 
> I'm going to separate all lines and pressurize individually. I know thats crazy but I've never had a slab leak that didn't register on a leak detector or drop to close to zero on a Gauge. I'm Back to trial and error it seems which just feels like amateur hour to me. I guess I'm just always thinking that there's someone else out there who knows more and could school me.


On a concrete floor location of pooling water is important but not always where the leak is. The water will pool in the lower areas of the slab which is away from the outer edges as a rule. Have you found the supply entrance to the home? And have you separated the yard line from the house. I say that because I had a similar hard to find leak once and it ended up being a leak out in the yard, but because it was so close to the sleeve it had less resistance going up the sleeve than absorbing into the ground.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Cracks in the slab will allow water to come through the slab, but the leak might be 10 foot away.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Another thing, I'm admittedly fairly new to the high tech ways of locating leaking loops but my old school way which worked really well is to use a heat gun or torch if copper (is quicker) and heat the lines connected to the suspect manifold and compare the heat loss one to the other. The leaking loop will reveal itself very quickly.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Since you have already opened up the floor, what type of soil is under the slab? clay, sugar sand? If it's a fairly porous soil, a leak that small will not even show water above slab if it is an under slab leak. Have you called a water extraction company out yet? if you have that much water under floors it needs to be dried up.

On a small leak like that you need to use nitrogen.

Also, make sure you have done a hydrostatic test on both the hot side and the cold side to narrow it down. If any shut off valves are not working, those must be replaced before you can proceed.

If you are still losing pressure but hearing no leak with nitro, shut the water off to the whole building, have the house dried out, turn the water back on and scan with a thermal camera. You shouldn't need to go that far though.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I don't know if anyone else said this already, I didn't see it posted, but what about a drain? your in a condo, what about a neighbors drain? or a drain cracked at the footing before going into the slab.

I may be wrong, but I don't think its a slab leak. 

Also irrigation around? I had a house with buckled wood floors because she was over watering the front yard and water was getting in and pooling under the wood floor.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

If you find the manifolds use a tethascope a good one like the docs use that would help single out the line. Also check the trim I had one were the base board trim had a nail straight through the pipe water went unler the tile ended up on the other side of house


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> I don't know if anyone else said this already, I didn't see it posted, but what about a drain? your in a condo, what about a neighbors drain? or a drain cracked at the footing before going into the slab.
> 
> I may be wrong, but I don't think its a slab leak.
> 
> Also irrigation around? I had a house with buckled wood floors because she was over watering the front yard and water was getting in and pooling under the wood floor.



i was think the samething like a condensate drain that is backed up and is running over with clean enough water to not get a sewer water smell . I have actually seen this at a friends house. they had central ac system with a 2inch drain pipe coming through the floor that the condensate drained into it was backed up and leaking under the wood floor and it had made it all the way into the living room about 40 feet away before they noticed what was going on.they called me I came out and they screaming they were for sure it was a slab leak so i tested the house and it held steady at 65 psi so i started looking around and they told me then the bathtub had been backed up so cut a small hole behind the bathtub and sure enough there was water in the leave out under the tub where the waste and overflow was. Now it gets interesting i pull the wood floor in the closet backed up to the tub and we wet vac all the water up on the floor and and you can see the water running on the concrete not from the tub but to it from the ac closet . thats when I figured what had happened and got a blow bag out and cleared the drain on the ac and all was good . Their insurance even paid for all the damaged floor.


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

slab has not been opened up yet, just drywall to find manifolds. So I'm not 100% what material is under slab 

I ruled drains out because i was there all day yesterday with nothing being used and I could see the leak spread slowly once I turned on the main in the AM, by the evening i could tell it had advanced. 

AC has not been on for weeks, so condensate is out. WH is on 1st floor and under no water around or under it. 

Pulled fridge, dishwasher, and oven(looking for manifold to upstairs bath) all good. Supplies and stops are dusty and dry. 

Condos next door kinda ruled out cause leak dries out when water is off 

Irrigation valves are not leaking

Checked moisture level on ceilings and walls , no indication of water running down walls 

I am making a master check list of the ideas you guys have suggested and that I'll think of. I'll keep you all posted 

Restoration company had already been notified and are scheduled to dry it out. 

thanks guys


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

revenge said:


> If you find the manifolds use a tethascope a good one like the docs use that would help single out the line. Also check the trim I had one were the base board trim had a nail straight through the pipe water went unler the tile ended up on the other side of house


A "mechanics" Stethoscope will work too.


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

If your hours are rapidly getting out of a reasonable amount and the condo piping has been repaired and rerouted due to remodeling several times and you are positive it is indeed a supply and not drain leaking, perhaps it's time to suggest repiping it. If you are not carefull the troubleshooting process could exceed a repipe that it probably already needs anyway.


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

I hear you. I have dropped hints about it but didn't want to seem like i was selling a solution to an issue I couldn't solve. Tomorrow I'll get this figured out. 

How high can I pressurize copper with the stops on vs a capped line??


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

voltatab said:


> I hear you. I have dropped hints about it but didn't want to seem like i was selling a solution to an issue I couldn't solve. Tomorrow I'll get this figured out.
> 
> How high can I pressurize copper with the stops on vs a capped line??


I do 200 psi all the time.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Protech said:


> I do 200 psi all the time.


 You bumped me by twenty


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Found the leak...thank god!

T&P valve was leaking, but the pipe is going into the wall and under slab. Only seen that once before around here. Where it terminates i have no idea, but obviously it has been buried. Poured water in pipe once i cut it open, line backed up, does not drain. Pressure backed up and leaked underground. I replace the water heater cause i found that the heater was leaking as well now. 
The first day i was there the heater was dry as a bone. I'm guessing the t&p couldn't do it's job so the heater finally gave out. The pipe penetrated the slab right next to the WH's manifolds. It was never hot to the touch...

My thoughts on Saturday looking for leak - 

"I suck, I'm the worst plumber alive, I can't believe people let me into their home cause I'm a hack. Damn I suck, I should get a job selling t-shirts or something cause this plumbing thing ain't working out. Hacks put me to shame, how the hell did I ever get my license?"

My thoughts today after finding leak-
"I am the single greatest plumber that ever lived! I should put on a clinic and teach other plumbers how to plumb! Plumbing is soooo easy! I can't believe they pay me for this!"

Hahahaha

Thanks to all for the tips and advice. And the PM'ers giving some encouragement


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Much better to go from zero to hero than vice versa. Good job!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Always check the obvious things first. can't tell you how many leak detections I get called out for that turn out to be a hosebib that was left cracked open.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

We could make this Murphy's first law of plumbing:

ALWAYS check the T/P, no matter WHAT the problem/symptoms are.

corralary: If the problem involves a toilet, also check the TP. Meaning, no Charmin!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Good job Voltatab. Feels great and a relief at the same time to have found the source of the leak. Now comes the part where you present bill and get paid......:thumbsup:


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

Glad your feeling good, now you will feel even better once you get your money!


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

voltatab said:


> Found the leak...thank god!
> 
> T&P valve was leaking, but the pipe is going into the wall and under slab. Only seen that once before around here. Where it terminates i have no idea, but obviously it has been buried. Poured water in pipe once i cut it open, line backed up, does not drain. Pressure backed up and leaked underground. I replace the water heater cause i found that the heater was leaking as well now.
> The first day i was there the heater was dry as a bone. I'm guessing the t&p couldn't do it's job so the heater finally gave out. The pipe penetrated the slab right next to the WH's manifolds. It was never hot to the touch...
> ...



Heres my fix, abandon t and p line under ground install a watts 210valve and install a presure relief valve at the service.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

That home may have a thermal expansion issue. Check into that Voltatab. 

Did the T&P valve open after new W/H was installed?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I think times like this keep us from getting a big head thus helps keep us humble. Sometimes 2 heads are better than one. You done a good job Voltatab. Congratulations.


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Thanks, no issue with new heater. But I will be coming back to do a faucet later this month, I'll recommend it to them


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Nice job with the locate, I bet it was a huge relief. I know the feeling when you feel like you've done everything to solve a problem and you feel like giving up but you keep going then, BAMN!!! You solve it.:thumbup:


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

voltatab said:


> Thanks, no issue with new heater. But I will be coming back to do a faucet later this month, I'll recommend it to them


 I told you you would get it.
Just need the support from friends.

Can I tell you how to find the drain termination?:thumbsup:

Shoot another PM if you want.

*Sorry Mr.General Handyman.*


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## CentralPlumbing (Jan 22, 2009)

Glad you found the leak! 

I just wanted to add one of my experiences. We had a customer complaining of water in the living room. We checked the meter, no movement. We checked fixture lines, shutoff valves etc.. nothing. We cut open the wall near where the leak seemed to be coming from and we could see clearly that water was coming up from under the slab past some pipes. We checked meter again, not spinning. Verified that meter was working by turning something on. We went back and fourth for a while looking at different possibilities when all of a sudden it was coming up again out of the slab really fast. Found no movement at meter again when we realized that the customer was running their clothes washer right then. An old galvanized drain had rusted out underground and the drain had become backed up. Every time the washer drained water it pushed it out of the break into the ground, up and out of the slab.
We ended up replacing 60' of bad drain pipe!

Central Plumbing
Albuquerque Plumber


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Bless you amigo.


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Is there any means of fresh air for that water heater? Looks like that door is solid and there's no fresh air vent that I can see.


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## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

There's a vent in the ceiling of the cabinet that goes to the attic I believe


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

voltatab said:


> There's a vent in the ceiling of the cabinet that goes to the attic I believe


That would work, that would suck to see you have to replace a brand new heater for lack of air since you've been through so much already.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

voltatab said:


> There's a vent in the ceiling of the cabinet that goes to the attic I believe


Good point about cumbustion air You need air intake within 12 inches of floor


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Good point about cumbustion air You need air intake within 12 inches of floor


Floor and ceiling, last time I checked though I do remember something about being able to vent into an attic space for fresh air..


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

cityplumbing said:


> Floor and ceiling, last time I checked though I do remember something about being able to vent into an attic space for fresh air..


Hmmm can't draw combustion air from the attic up here.... but I can see it possible in the states....

All those HWT installed in the attic just blows my mind


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Hmmm can't draw combustion air from the attic up here.... but I can see it possible in the states....
> 
> All those HWT installed in the attic just blows my mind


Your attics are probably more tighter then ours in the southern states. Might have to do with your cold weather.


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Here it is, knew I saw it.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

voltatab said:


> Found the leak...thank god!
> 
> T&P valve was leaking, but the pipe is going into the wall and under slab. Only seen that once before around here. Where it terminates i have no idea, but obviously it has been buried. Poured water in pipe once i cut it open, line backed up, does not drain. Pressure backed up and leaked underground. I replace the water heater cause i found that the heater was leaking as well now.
> The first day i was there the heater was dry as a bone. I'm guessing the t&p couldn't do it's job so the heater finally Attached Thumbnails
> ...


 








That's not code here, for sure. It's taking combustion air from a living space, it's not FVIR, vent looks shaky.

May want to talk to your customer about upgrading.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

matt thomas said:


> Remove and replace broken pipes. Hire abecause i didn't prefer things doing by my own.I prefer hiring specialist so that no error will remain in repairing such leakage.


hey jerkoff noone cares about your spam link , and your not even a plumber. so get lost..


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Handyhack are not allowed here....

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Learn how to construct a sentence....................


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Spammer banned.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

...


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