# Would you charge for this ?



## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

I got a call today , home owner was convinced his water lines are frozen to the shower valve.
Its on an exterior wall and sounded reasonable over the phone.
I rolled out there and found that he had about 25% pressure on the cold and a trickle on the hot. 
I told him frozen pipes are not the problem, your cartridge is probably shot.
He insisted I was wrong, as he had paid some jack leg dumb shoit over $500 yesterday to " thaw " is lines . After spending 3 to 4 hours screwing around , they said "it just takes time "
They left space heaters under the house and said they would be back Monday to pick them up. 

I told him if I'm wrong its on me, " NO CHARGE " .
I pulled the cartridge out of the valve , turned the water back on and YAHOO we have water. 

I charged the guy for my time and was on my way.

I think the first company that showed up totally misdiagnosed the problem and scrwed this guy out of $500.
I wouldnt have the nerve to charge someone to NOT fix their problem.
What do you guys think ?


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> I got a call today , home owner was convinced his water lines are frozen to the shower valve.
> Its on an exterior wall and sounded reasonable over the phone.
> I rolled out there and found that he had about 25% pressure on the cold and a trickle on the hot.
> I told him frozen pipes are not the problem, your cartridge is probably shot.
> ...


Ha ha, sounds like you are in Arizona... Except for the frozen pipes. I get more work following nimrods that collect a lot of money, and don't really fix the problem... Or make it worse. Chances are that the guys who did that job, didn't know they weren't fixing the problem. They will probably tell the customer that you only got water to the valve because they had thawed the lines first.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> ... he had paid some jack leg dumb shoit over $500 yesterday to " thaw " is lines ....


Don't be disrespectful, Albacore, the proper title is "technician" 



:jester::laughing:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Charge them, but no doubt your bill looked a lot better to the ho then theirs did, and you got to shine. A great way to gain loyal customers.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Don't be disrespectful, Albacore, the proper title is "technician"
> 
> 
> 
> :jester::laughing:


 haha !
Actually I know the company that did this, I use to think thay were a stand up company, Not any more.:no:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Was the cartridge clogged with rust? Around here when galvanized pipes freeze it breaks up all the nasty rust. We spend more time clearing stops and washer screens than with the defrost. 

Not saying they were not Bozos before you, but the cust probably demanded they fix the frozen pipes and would not take no for an answer.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

But wHy he call you if he was waiting fur the lines to thaw


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Don't be disrespectful, Albacore, the proper title is "technician"
> 
> :jester::laughing:


Or " apprentice "


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Personally I don't charge if I can't fix it.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I charge no matter what .... I sell time


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

That's why I usually discount everything the homeowner/maintenance planner/building supervisor tells me except where the problem is. I tell them, I am the plumber, let me figure out what the cause and solution is.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> Was the cartridge clogged with rust? Around here when galvanized pipes freeze it breaks up all the nasty rust. We spend more time clearing stops and washer screens than with the defrost.
> 
> Not saying they were not Bozos before you, but the cust probably demanded they fix the frozen pipes and would not take no for an answer.





422 plumber said:


> That's why I usually discount everything the homeowner/maintenance planner/building supervisor tells me except where the problem is. I tell them, I am the plumber, let me figure out what the cause and solution is.


:yes:


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

So Albacore I assume you charged around a thousand since you actually did the repair...? Seems like you would have been worth every penny of that to a HO who pays half that just for a diagnostic service call...


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

Get paid for a job well done. If I didn't fix the problem and I should have been able to then I should not have charged him. There are exceptions though


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I've had a few misdiagnosis over the years. Most of the time its one of those processes kind of problem where you have to start somewhere, but yeah I've missed on a couple. 

As a worker the company did whatever with the bill. As a owner I would eat it and walk away. Better to be known for getting it wrong and not charging than to be one of those getting it wrong and still charging. 

Many times I think we hold ourselves to a higher level than most other trades and professions. Doctors don't always get it right the first time, lawyers can only offer opinion as to how the law reads, architects draw up a fine building until the actual work starts, mechanics charge fees to dig further into a problem, etc... 

We should be able to charge for all our time, even when we get it wrong to start, but that is not how we have been conditioned to think we miss the mark.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Who missed the mark .....

I charge for everything fix it or not...

I sell time and knowledge and the customer decides how much money they want to throw at something


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

What cartridge are you referring to?


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

gear junkie said:


> What cartridge are you referring to?


Pressure Balancing .

http://www.dirtcheapfaucets.com/ProductDetail.asp?Product=16548&AffiliateID=NexTagDCF


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Who missed the mark .....
> 
> I charge for everything fix it or not...
> 
> I sell time and knowledge and the customer decides how much money they want to throw at something


It depends though. If it's something you make a mistake on, it shouldn't be charged. If it's one of those situations where you don't know if you can fix it, and the customer wants you to proceed anyhow, they pay regardless of the outcome.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> I charge no matter what .... I sell time


I sell solutions. :thumbsup:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> I sell solutions. :thumbsup:


Well played sir! :yes:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Sounds like they focused in on what the H.O. was saying and overlooked something simple. If the company is a stand up company, IMO, they should refund a portion of the charges.

That said, it's hard to say after the fact that his pipes were not frozen at the time the other company was there. As an owner, I would definitely be questioning the plumbers who were on that call to determine what led them to believe that the pipes were indeed frozen and how did they confirm that was the case?

Hopefully "YOUR" new customer will call the other company and let them know that you fixed the problem. We all hate complaints from customers, but I would rather hear a complaint and attempt to rectify vs. losing the customer.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Indie said:


> I've had a few misdiagnosis over the years. Most of the time its one of those processes kind of problem where you have to start somewhere, but yeah I've missed on a couple.
> 
> As a worker the company did whatever with the bill. As a owner I would eat it and walk away. Better to be known for getting it wrong and not charging than to be one of those getting it wrong and still charging.
> 
> ...


This comment is only in response to Indies quote...

We all have "missed the mark" and will on occasion "miss" others along the road. I like to think of it as a process of elimination while troubleshooting. Sometimes that process of elimination needs to be performed over the course of several days. The customer need to know up front that somethings take time and we are not miracle workers. I charge for all of my hours. If I ruled one thing out, time to move on to the next. If the customer doesn't allow that, its their problem and I am entitled to my money thus far.


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## Everflow (Feb 1, 2010)

mightypipe said:


> Ha ha, sounds like you are in Arizona... Except for the frozen pipes. I get more work following nimrods that collect a lot of money, and don't really fix the problem... Or make it worse. Chances are that the guys who did that job, didn't know they weren't fixing the problem. They will probably tell the customer that you only got water to the valve because they had thawed the lines first.


I just spent the last 2 weeks fixing frozen pipes in Arizona. It's amazing what a week of close zero temp will do to pipes.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

I suppose it was a pressure balanced valve cartridge with a locked spool? 

If I was the home owner I would be screaming bloody murder at the first guys.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

theres definitely times i have missed the mark. one time attempting to rod a drain. we were unable to get the cable to make the bends. we still charged hourly rate but because the machine was un successful we didnt charge for it. if i feel i messed up and wasted time i might discount 1/2 hour or 10% off the total bill. one or the other. never both and never more than 10%


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Same here went out to a restaurant and was unsuccessful clearing the bend on a figure 5 for double sink. Fought it for an hour packed up and left did not charge. Roof was not an option for me. What's the secret to getting cable down a double fixture fitting drain?


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## peas of krap (Aug 4, 2011)

pull the fixture and try to use string to "pull" the cable .


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

peas of krap said:


> pull the fixture and try to use string to "pull" the cable .


I took both traps off on both sides of wall. 

Please elaborate on "string to pull cable".


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

I had trouble getting thru back 2 back sinks I made a guide pipe with conduit that had a slight bend at end I would stick that into open drain till it was a cross then fish my sink Mach cable trough that most times it worked great but if the drains are on arms then meet a cross ! not. make it

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

I’ve got a guy who lives 5min down the road from me. Every time he needs a small project done like a toilet or faucet he calls me and never asks or complains about the price. In fact he typically gives me an extra $50-$100 on top of what I ask for. I’m heading over there today for a problem with his silcock but it sounds like it’s just shut off inside. If all you had to do was turn the shutoff valve would you charge a customer like him? I’m thinking about doing it for free because he’s probably already given me $300 in tips over the last year anyway and I know next time he needs something done I’ll be the guy doing it. Of course if it’s more than turning the valve handle I’ll be charging him a fair price.


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

Sstratton6175 said:


> I’ve got a guy who lives 5min down the road from me. Every time he needs a small project done like a toilet or faucet he calls me and never asks or complains about the price. In fact he typically gives me an extra $50-$100 on top of what I ask for. I’m heading over there today for a problem with his silcock but it sounds like it’s just shut off inside. If all you had to do was turn the shutoff valve would you charge a customer like him? I’m thinking about doing it for free because he’s probably already given me $300 in tips over the last year anyway and I know next time he needs something done I’ll be the guy doing it. Of course if it’s more than turning the valve handle I’ll be charging him a fair price.


In case like that I probably would not charge, but those are very, very rare. In your case I see it more as a business decision which is cultivating a long term customer than an emotional feel good nice guy decision. 
I am doing a side job today for an organization I am a member of and have many friends at. They rent space from a slum lord landlord who rarely fixes anything. His regular plumber is not available, so they referred him to me. The job is more extensive than they realized, and I was very tempted to give him a great deal just so he would agree to it so I could fix the problem for my friends. After I thought about it, no, business is business, and if I start that now he will expect it in the future. I did think about the quote very carefully, and maybe didn't add any padding for potential unexpected issues like I normally do, so in that sense yes I guess I did give him a deal, but still quoted a fair price. When you start giving deals because you feel bad you are setting yourself up to get taken advantage of. I was the worst one at doing that for years, until I smartened up. I have friends who won't use me as their plumber because they don't want a business relationship to interfere. Those are true friends.


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

goeswiththeflow said:


> In case like that I probably would not charge, but those are very, very rare. In your case I see it more as a business decision which is cultivating a long term customer than an emotional feel good nice guy decision.
> I am doing a side job today for an organization I am a member of and have many friends at. They rent space from a slum lord landlord who rarely fixes anything. His regular plumber is not available, so they referred him to me. The job is more extensive than they realized, and I was very tempted to give him a great deal just so he would agree to it so I could fix the problem for my friends. After I thought about it, no, business is business, and if I start that now he will expect it in the future. I did think about the quote very carefully, and maybe didn't add any padding for potential unexpected issues like I normally do, so in that sense yes I guess I did give him a deal, but still quoted a fair price. When you start giving deals because you feel bad you are setting yourself up to get taken advantage of. I was the worst one at doing that for years, until I smartened up. I have friends who won't use me as their plumber because they don't want a business relationship to interfere. Those are true friends.


Thanks for the input. It was just shut off so I didn’t charge him anything. He told me he wants me to swap out a faucet in a few weeks. I can guarantee you he’ll throw me some extra cash when I do that job.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Sstratton6175 said:


> Thanks for the input. It was just shut off so I didn’t charge him anything. He told me he wants me to swap out a faucet in a few weeks. I can guarantee you he’ll throw me some extra cash when I do that job.


Yet lp him to throw in his old lady also,boingggggggg


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

I was right. He sent me some money via Venmo without telling me.


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