# Big brute jetter



## Unclog1776

Been eyeing the big brute as I am in the market for a powerful cart Jetter I can use when I either cant get my trailer jet close enough or when 35 GPM is a no go. 

Have noticed on here that a few of you have one. Pros and cons?


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## AndersenPlumbing

No cons, love mine!


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## Unclog1776

Do you have the removable hose cart? I think I will get it with that option


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## theplungerman

Imo, look no further then jnw for a cart jetter. I had a big bruiser, 6gpm 4kpsi. Very solid just a little short to kick serious butt. 
The big brute (what I wanted but chose not to sacrifice truck space) but in the end wish I did. 
I jetted a sewer today thru a 3inch with 3/8 hose and 3/8 warthog and killed off about 7 bad joints with some substantial root growth. So with about 10gpm (right there with brute) it was impressive. I could also venture to say had I got the big brute to start off with maybe I don't get a trailer. 
I liked jnw so much I flew up to Seattle to look at their operation and then lunch,,, and then had dinner with John, Steve and the owner while they were in Long Beach. I wanted to sell their jetters on the side here in so CA,, they eventually turned me down.... 
All in all A great Co. And can't say enough good things about them.


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## plbgbiz

Brute is the same HP/pressure/GPM specs as my JNW Eagle 200 trailer rig. You won't be disappointed.


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## Will

How hard is it to move that cart jetter around? Got to be a chore huh? JNW is a great company. Good people work there.


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## Unclog1776

That's another of my concerns. Can one guy put it in a truck alone if he has a ramp? For the most part my sewer calls have two guys so it's not a huge issue


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## gear junkie

Bigger question is what size pipe are you trying to clean out and what are you trying to remove? How is the water supply at people's homes?


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## plbgbiz

Unclog1776 said:


> That's another of my concerns. Can one guy put it in a truck alone if he has a ramp? For the most part my sewer calls have two guys so it's not a huge issue


The weight and concern over water supply is why I decided on the trailer version.


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## Will

The Brute has a 12 gal storeage tank so water shouldn't be too big of a problem. Easier to bring it in on a trailer though.


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## Will

As we speak, JNW just added a Brute Trailer to there line!

http://www.jettersnorthwest.com/trailer-jetters/brute-150-trailer-jetter/


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## gear junkie

Wow looking at that rig I'd be scared to buy it. The trailer looks like something from harbor freight and seriously lightweight.

Biz question for you.....did you have to sign any paperwork that says you can't carry a full tank of water while driving? How does the quality of your trailer look?


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## Unclog1776

I have a big old school trailer jet from Myers that has been rebuilt and somewhat of a head turner. I want the brute because of the less GPM, I'm currently running 35 gpm and usually make the back up worse before it gets better. The brute will be used primarily on residential. Around here everything is 4" cast under basement floor and turns to 6" clay just outside the foundation so I will be using it to cut roots on 6". Gotta add about 2 grand to the price for the nozzles I want


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## gear junkie

I would personally look into the 13hp jetters with a root ranger nozzle. I have to deal with the same size pipe out here and the combo has done well enough where I don't feel the need to upgrade. I've posted enough about it where I'm sure I don't need to go into generalities but would be happy to answer specific questions if you had any.


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## Unclog1776

I think I've seen your videos. Impressive. I love my 1/2" root rat and 3/4" warthog and will defiantly get both in 3/8" when I order new Jetter. Root ranger is cheap compared to other nozzles of its caliber. I'll add that on the list


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## theplungerman

Unclog1776 said:


> That's another of my concerns. Can one guy put it in a truck alone if he has a ramp? For the most part my sewer calls have two guys so it's not a huge issue


This is how I got it in and out. The brute? I could've done it also. I anchored the pole holding arm holding the cart. With a ramp you could fashion a pully gig for safety purposes, unless it's a nice long gradual one. Depends obviously on truck.


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## Unclog1776

That is awesome! ^^^


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## theplungerman

I thought the trailer looked strong enough. I know for a fact that jnw dosn't put out junk and dosn't deserve to be compared to harbor freight. It's not a 18gpm 4kpsi with a 300 Gallon tank and 800pd diesel engine 500 ft hydraulic reel for criminy sakes. 
Again I had 6gpm 4k 25hsp and with the root ranger, it worked but the blow back was ridiculous. And what I read on the forums about how I was gonna sleigh it and what I experienced were two entirely different scenarios. But first you need to get past the clog. And if it was a big intrusion I had to tape a push rod to it with a forward facing rotor nozzel. And hold it. And then it's a chore and a chance you don't get thru or your there 4 hrs trying to. 
As I said in an earlier post here I did some nice work with my 3/8 hose at about 9-10 gpm with a warthog yesterday while on my knees in a nice comfortable position. (with knee pads) and took care of about 7 bad spots. No turning it this way and that way,,, And every time I jet now I get so stoked I don't have to use the root ranger. Your talking blow back 10ft 15 in the air when it gets close, plus the added chance it sprays the water all over bathrooms. Yeah you can do this and that to keep it from happening but with a warthog you don't have the added chance. When I go for a nozzle and see the root ranger I smile and say, not today maybe some other time. 
From what I understand gear is a big stud,,, I'm 54 and winding down. The last thing I want to do is wrestle with the hose turning it this way and that way to hit the roots. And your guys,, I can't imagine them being happy with just the bare minimum. If you can swing it get the big brute. That will do well. 
The pic I'm adding is a job that took way 2 hrs to get past roots. And the 2nd one is a job the plumber who hired me to help him clear his friends line that was broke gave up waiting for me to clear it,, And that's with 25 hsp. That's with this not working and that not working. 
Working a clog with 35 gpm before it's clear is hilarious. OK boys and girls step back.


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## Unclog1776

It's mostly from the downstream end. You would be surprised how fast it clears the line with a chisel nozzle. Then pull it out and hook up the rat. Usually in and out in under a hour and on to the next. The GPM isn't what bothers me, mobility is more important with this purchase.


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## gear junkie

One thing I do is use 1/4" hose. I'm thinking of using 3/8 hose because of pressure loss but the 1/4" allows you to turn the hose much easier. For the pushrod technique......the pushrod is everything.

Another thing with the root ranger.....works great but really needs operator knowledge to get it work. It's not a simple "just shove down the drain and whola....spotless pipe". You have to know what you're doing and have realistic expectations.


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## sierra2000

theplungerman said:


> I thought the trailer looked strong enough. I know for a fact that jnw dosn't put out junk and dosn't deserve to be compared to harbor freight. It's not a 18gpm 4kpsi with a 300 Gallon tank and 800pd diesel engine 500 ft hydraulic reel for criminy sakes. Again I had 6gpm 4k 25hsp and with the root ranger, it worked but the blow back was ridiculous. And what I read on the forums about how I was gonna sleigh it and what I experienced were two entirely different scenarios. But first you need to get past the clog. And if it was a big intrusion I had to tape a push rod to it with a forward facing rotor nozzel. And hold it. And then it's a chore and a chance you don't get thru or your there 4 hrs trying to. As I said in an earlier post here I did some nice work with my 3/8 hose at about 9-10 gpm with a warthog yesterday while on my knees in a nice comfortable position. (with knee pads) and took care of about 7 bad spots. No turning it this way and that way,,, And every time I jet now I get so stoked I don't have to use the root ranger. Your talking blow back 10ft 15 in the air when it gets close, plus the added chance it sprays the water all over bathrooms. Yeah you can do this and that to keep it from happening but with a warthog you don't have the added chance. When I go for a nozzle and see the root ranger I smile and say, not today maybe some other time. From what I understand gear is a big stud,,, I'm 54 and winding down. The last thing I want to do is wrestle with the hose turning it this way and that way to hit the roots. And your guys,, I can't imagine them being happy with just the bare minimum. If you can swing it get the big brute. That will do well. The pic I'm adding is a job that took way 2 hrs to get past roots. And the 2nd one is a job the plumber who hired me to help him clear his friends line that was broke gave up waiting for me to clear it,, And that's with 25 hsp. That's with this not working and that not working. Working a clog with 35 gpm before it's clear is hilarious. OK boys and girls step back.


What size push rod were you using with it?


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## theplungerman

http://www.pushpullrods.com/Merchan..._Code=P&Product_Code=CF300DTG&Category_Code=R
1/4 inch
You can call her. Her biz is in the south bay,, CA,,, you can ask her if she can cut you up a 200 footer for less. 
She's cool. I went to pick it up and cleared a couple drains at her shop and got a good deal


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## AndersenPlumbing

gear junkie said:


> Wow looking at that rig I'd be scared to buy it. The trailer looks like something from harbor freight and seriously lightweight.
> 
> Biz question for you.....did you have to sign any paperwork that says you can't carry a full tank of water while driving? How does the quality of your trailer look?




What pictures are you looking at? That trailer looks pretty beefy to me. I think its a 2x4 rectangle tube frame. Looks pretty nice to me. Have you seen the cheap ass trailers that Spartan makes?? IMO Spartans trailers look like they are some sort of universal trailer frame. http://www.spartantool.com/filebin/images/product/zoom/73800000.jpg



I can tell you this, NOBODY in the jetter business will take the time to explain things like JNW will. Their customers service is second to none IMO. Their machines are VERY WELL BUILT IMO. I've spent hours on the phone with them. I bought a Brute cart and a Harben trailer from them within 6 months of each other. They have helped me spend over $35k and I am glad I did!


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## plbgbiz

gear junkie said:


> Wow looking at that rig I'd be scared to buy it. The trailer looks like something from harbor freight and seriously lightweight.
> 
> Biz question for you.....did you have to sign any paperwork that says you can't carry a full tank of water while driving? How does the quality of your trailer look?


After dealing with them for over a year, I have 100% confidence in anything that comes out of the JNW facility.

The whole point behind the Brute trailer is mobility. If you were to check the specs on the trailer, I would wager them to be well beyond the payload it is carrying. That is certainly the case on my unit.

The quality of my Eagle 200 trailer is just fine. The only thing that would be a nice add-on is maybe a shroud of some kind. But that is a big MAYBE. It would be a nice spot for some graphics but it might also just be in the way. 

The "look" of jetting equipment does not dictate the results.


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## plbgbiz

This is the Brute trailer...


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## SewerRatz

AndersenPlumbing said:


> What pictures are you looking at? That trailer looks pretty beefy to me. I think its a 2x4 rectangle tube frame. Looks pretty nice to me. Have you seen the cheap ass trailers that Spartan makes?? IMO Spartans trailers look like they are some sort of universal trailer frame. http://www.spartantool.com/filebin/images/product/zoom/73800000.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell you this, NOBODY in the jetter business will take the time to explain things like JNW will. Their customers service is second to none IMO. Their machines are VERY WELL BUILT IMO. I've spent hours on the phone with them. I bought a Brute cart and a Harben trailer from them within 6 months of each other. They have helped me spend over $35k and I am glad I did!


What is the specs on the Brute cart? I was eyeballing the General J-3080 which was one of the first cart jetters that offered 3000 PSI @ 8 GPM http://www.drainbrain.com/jets/jm3080/index.html I ended up with the J-3000 which does great work.

Oh btw did Gemato's in Naperville give you a ring about jetting?


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## SewerRatz

plbgbiz said:


> This is the Brute trailer...


The Spartan jetter that Anderson posted a pic of does look a lot better than the Brute trailer.


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## plbgbiz

SewerRatz said:


> The Spartan jetter that Anderson posted a pic of does look a lot better than the Brute trailer.


 Spartan is by far one of the best looking units. Looks kinda like an overgrown motorcycle travel trailer. (The covered Warrior models)

I test jetted the Spartan Warrior. It was underwhelming. I blame that on the joke of a rep they had demoing the unit. He had never used it before but bragged about the time he spent reading the manuals. I figured if that was their level of interest in the sale, I would be really screwed when I needed service. 

Who knows? Maybe Spartan is as good but they will never get the chance to prove it to me again. The same exact thing happened when they sent someone to demo their pipe bursting equipment to us. The job was a complete disaster. 

In the end, when I have a couple hundred feet of hose in the line at a multi-unit sewer emergency or I happen to be trying to help another plumber out of a jam, what really matters is if the unit gets the job done and if the manufacturer is prepared to step up if I need help.


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## plbgbiz

The Brute trailer comes with a 28hp Subaru. Spartan's 738 only has a 19hp Kawasaki. The Brute trailer weighs less than 2500 full of water and the trailer is rated for 2990GVW.

The Spartan only weighs 2,370 when full so I doubt it is any beefier than the JNW. 

It is more aerodynamic. :thumbup:


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## gear junkie

If I had to buy a trailer jetter, this is the company I would buy from http://www.hotjetusa.com/coldwaterjettertrailerunits.php and specifically the 9gpm 4000 psi model. It's expensive for sure but you see my tag line.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Great info on this thread, guys. This gets me psyched about buying my jetter. I can't wait. I will say that Spartan's service reps are not that knowledgeable. I like a lot of their equipment but their reps don't know much. At least not the ones I've dealt with.


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## plbgbiz

Bulldozer has a great rep


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## SewerRatz

Ok I am on JNW page for the brute trailer. They have the at the bottom two options 3000PSI @ 8.5 GPM and 4000 PSI @ 9 GPM

Lets have a look at what they say about their Big Brute 4000 PSI unit. The following is from their web page


> *Big Brute 4000 PSI Cart Jetter
> *720cc Subaru Fuel Injected Engine
> 9 GPM / 4000 PSI


 720cc Subaru engine convenient not saying the HP. Over at Subaru's website their fuel injected model provides maximum HP of 28 HP doing the math 4000 x 9 = 36,000/1100 = 32HP So using the argument that been used against Spartan, how are they magically getting 4000 PSI @ 9GPM with an undersized engine?

The Brute 3000 PSI @ 8.5 GPM


> *Brute 3000 PSI Cart Jetter
> *640cc Subaru V-Twin Engine
> 8.5 GPM / 3000 PSI


 Subaru's website states this engine puts out 20.5 HP lets do the math 3000 x 8.5 = 25,400 / 1100 = 23 HP

Either all the manufactures of jetters are grossly overstating the specs, or the math is not as simple as it seems, might be missing some details like gearing and such.


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## Best Darn Sewer

SewerRatz said:


> Ok I am on JNW page for the brute trailer. They have the at the bottom two options 3000PSI @ 8.5 GPM and 4000 PSI @ 9 GPM
> 
> Lets have a look at what they say about their Big Brute 4000 PSI unit. The following is from their web page 720cc Subaru engine convenient not saying the HP. Over at Subaru's website their fuel injected model provides maximum HP of 28 HP doing the math 4000 x 9 = 36,000/1100 = 32HP So using the argument that been used against Spartan, how are they magically getting 4000 PSI @ 9GPM with an undersized engine?
> 
> The Brute 3000 PSI @ 8.5 GPM Subaru's website states this engine puts out 20.5 HP lets do the math 3000 x 8.5 = 25,400 / 1100 = 23 HP
> 
> Either all the manufactures of jetters are grossly overstating the specs, or the math is not as simple as it seems, might be missing some details like gearing and such.


You sure that you're a plumber and not a mechanical engineer, Sewerratz?? Interesting look at raw numbers. Most auto manufacturers do fudge their numbers a little so why not jetter manufacturers?


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## gear junkie

Never looked at the subaru link before till ron just posted it. When selecting an engine you have to look at the performance curve AT 3200 rpm. that subaru "28hp" engine is really a 23 or 24 hp. Keep in mind that a little fudging of the numbers may not mean it won't reach that pressure.....but what it does mean is the engine won't last as long and we're not getting our monies worth. 

BTW.....biz and sierra(or anyone else running a JNW jetter. What size nozzle are you guys using?


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## Best Darn Sewer

A good little lesson in how to convert psi and GPMs to horsepower, though. I never knew that formula.


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## plbgbiz

I use a 3/8" warthog and root rat.


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## gear junkie

What size is the nozzle? meaning the orifice size? Nozzles are rated at 4000 psi for sizing purposes. so a #4 nozzles is 4gpm at 4000 psi. My jetter is 4gpm at 3500 psi so i use a 4.5 nozzle to reduce the pressure to 3500 psi. So if you got a #9 zero degree nozzle and stuck it on the end of your hose, your pressure gauge should be reading 4000 psi(assuming we're talking about the 9gpm 4000 psi).


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## plbgbiz

gear junkie said:


> What size is the nozzle? meaning the orifice size? Nozzles are rated at 4000 psi for sizing purposes. so a #4 nozzles is 4gpm at 4000 psi. My jetter is 4gpm at 3500 psi so i use a 4.5 nozzle to reduce the pressure to 3500 psi. So if you got a #9 zero degree nozzle and stuck it on the end of your hose, your pressure gauge should be reading 4000 psi(assuming we're talking about the 9gpm 4000 psi).


 I don't have a clue.


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## gear junkie

No big deal, that's why we have the discussion. Are you reaching 4000 psi?


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## plbgbiz

gear junkie said:


> No big deal, that's why we have the discussion. Are you reaching 4000 psi?


Usually. Sometimes only 3900.


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## plbgbiz

4K on the warthog.

3900 on the rat


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## sierra2000

Not sure what my nozzles are drilled at. I just tell them my specs. I do have two forward rotor nozzles, one at 4.5 and one at 9. Haven't used them yet though. Waiting on getting a pushrod so I can hold onto it.


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## Will

SewerRatz said:


> Ok I am on JNW page for the brute trailer. They have the at the bottom two options 3000PSI @ 8.5 GPM and 4000 PSI @ 9 GPM
> 
> Lets have a look at what they say about their Big Brute 4000 PSI unit. The following is from their web page 720cc Subaru engine convenient not saying the HP. Over at Subaru's website their fuel injected model provides maximum HP of 28 HP doing the math 4000 x 9 = 36,000/1100 = 32HP So using the argument that been used against Spartan, how are they magically getting 4000 PSI @ 9GPM with an undersized engine?
> 
> The Brute 3000 PSI @ 8.5 GPM Subaru's website states this engine puts out 20.5 HP lets do the math 3000 x 8.5 = 25,400 / 1100 = 23 HP
> 
> Either all the manufactures of jetters are grossly overstating the specs, or the math is not as simple as it seems, might be missing some details like gearing and such.


JNW use a gear reducing pump so it can't be a simple formula. Gives you a good base, but its not a except science. A direct drive pump, gear reducing pump, and belt and pulley pump would have different pump speeds. Would have to change the output right? 

I too had this talk with JNW awhile back about how I thought there specs where off. THey had a good answer for it, but it's been too long for me to remember what they told me. 

They do have great customer service, and are nice guys. Too me that is worth alot, and when I finally get me another jetter, there definitely one of my front runners for sure. 


And Gear, stay away from HotJetUSA, they are clueless when it comes to their equipment. It's like they are just a front to sell the product, and someone else makes it for them.


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## gear junkie

Will said:


> JNW use a gear reducing pump so it can't be a simple formula. Gives you a good base, but its not a except science. A direct drive pump, gear reducing pump, and belt and pulley pump would have different pump speeds. Would have to change the output right?
> 
> I too had this talk with JNW awhile back about how I thought there specs where off. THey had a good answer for it, but it's been too long for me to remember what they told me.
> 
> They do have great customer service, and are nice guys. Too me that is worth alot, and when I finally get me another jetter, there definitely one of my front runners for sure.
> 
> 
> And Gear, stay away from HotJetUSA, they are clueless when it comes to their equipment. It's like they are just a front to sell the product, and someone else makes it for them.


Why do say that? what did you hear? They're a divison for a water blasting company(name escapes me) but you're saying this is the first I've heard.


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## Will

I came close to buying from them a few years back(HotJet) back they just came accross as well, idiots. Even in their demo videos they sent, it looked like they didn't even know how to operate there stuff. 

I could be wrong about them, thats just the impression I got from them when I was dealing with them.


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## gear junkie

Really? Very interesting. I talked to them before and they were on point with everything they said. I really liked the beefiness of their trailers the most of all. I guess that's the company I want to meet in person but thanks for the heads up....I'll keep it in the back of mind.


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## Will

There trailers do look nice, I'll give you that, just the people working there the turned me off. There was a Plumber/Drain Cleaner that liked his, he used to get on here(Rhino Rooter) 

I'm go with JNW over them all day long. There both in the same league spec wise, but JNW has the better guys working there. They also are pump guys and know there stuff. I'd go with them unless you wanting the Mongoose Jetter, US Jet, Harben type of machines.


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## AndersenPlumbing

SewerRatz said:


> What is the specs on the Brute cart? I was eyeballing the General J-3080 which was one of the first cart jetters that offered 3000 PSI @ 8 GPM http://www.drainbrain.com/jets/jm3080/index.html I ended up with the J-3000 which does great work.
> 
> Oh btw did Gemato's in Naperville give you a ring about jetting?


I think they did on a Saturday or late evening. Didn't like my pricing.


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## theplungerman

I did a fair amount of research on pumps as I was thinking of building a trailer jetter. In this journey I spoke with Udor pump guy at length. The recommended hp is a guide for sure but not the end all. And they numbers are given assuming your going to be running these pumps all day long. 
Like Will I forgot jnw answer but it was good enough for me. 
Also if jnw was to get the pump Udor really says it should be and the motor as well. That jetter would be probably 5g more. (this a guess but not far off) 
The cleaner mag says my diesel hp should be 57.6,,, but it's 50. And it's a mongoose. 
As gear mentioned there is a rpm the engine wants to run at and more r's means excessive wear. But jnw dosn't do this and my diesel at 2500 rpm reaches the 4k 18gpm no problem with the correctly sized nozzels. In fact they have it governed to not go over 2500rpm or if I reach 4k psi the rpm don't go up pass the point when 4k is reached. 
I've only heard 1 person on this and another forum bag on jnw. And bunches more sing high praises. And since the one bagger hasn't disclosed why he had a problem w jnw I blow it off as not substantiated. 
Get a big brute and be done with it already. Why I say this? Cuz I want you to be happy and purchasing it will make you more than happy. You said you wanted a high performance cart jetter. Jnw is second to none in that category. This is IMHO.


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## SewerRatz

AndersenPlumbing said:


> I think they did on a Saturday or late evening. Didn't like my pricing.


Yea, they stopped calling me for a couple years now. I seen them out there with a rented Eel model C rodding from the inspection manhole back to the trap.

The owner called me Saturday and asked if I could come jet his line. The guy be is using is not lasting as long as it did when I jetted. I explained to him my truck is in the shop and I don't have one to tow the trailer. Also that I don't like jetting in these temperatures. Told him I can com rod the sewer and do the jetting when the temperature gets above freezing. He said he can rod it himself, then asked if I know anyone that can do a good job. So I gave him your number.

I did explain to him that he will get what he pays for. A good quality cleaning is not cheap. I used to get $605.00 to jet his line.


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## gear junkie

Guessing I'm the bagger? The main reason is because jetter companies(not just jnw) want a ton of money to call a pressure washer a jetter. My background is from the pressure washing industry. I have a real dislike for fluffers and that's what I consider most jetter companies. I work real hard for my money and don't mind spending it but I better get what the company says I'm getting. BTW....i'm not talking about a little bit of money.....I'm talking thousands difference. Why? Because plumbers are willing to spend the money. If you want to spend a few thousand more because something is called a jetter then go for it, it's your money. 

Here's the other thing....cart jetters use NOTHING special! all these companies are doing is bolting parts together! That's it. Plumbers are paying a ton of money because someone else is turning a wrench. I installed a new pump on my cart jetter.....took me 1 hour. Should I spend 3k more on the because it has some cool name? I don't see why. I'd rather spend that money on something else. Here's just personal belief that carries over in my business.....it's not what you make....it's what you spend. 

Pic is from a pressure washer catalog....engine and pump only but add the hose, reel and nozzle and you're ready to go. How much does the brute cost?


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## AndersenPlumbing

gear junkie said:


> Guessing I'm the bagger? The main reason is because jetter companies(not just jnw) want a ton of money to call a pressure washer a jetter. My background is from the pressure washing industry. I have a real dislike for fluffers and that's what I consider most jetter companies. I work real hard for my money and don't mind spending it but I better get what the company says I'm getting. BTW....i'm not talking about a little bit of money.....I'm talking thousands difference. Why? Because plumbers are willing to spend the money. If you want to spend a few thousand more because something is called a jetter then go for it, it's your money.
> 
> Here's the other thing....cart jetters use NOTHING special! all these companies are doing is bolting parts together! That's it. Plumbers are paying a ton of money because someone else is turning a wrench. I installed a new pump on my cart jetter.....took me 1 hour. Should I spend 3k more on the because it has some cool name? I don't see why. I'd rather spend that money on something else. Here's just personal belief that carries over in my business.....it's not what you make....it's what you spend.
> 
> Pic is from a pressure washer catalog....engine and pump only but add the hose, reel and nozzle and you're ready to go. How much does the brute cost?


 
You thought process isn't for everyone. Not everyone has the time to research what will work with what. Which engine, which pump, which unloader......

Before I bought a jetter, I didn't know a damn thing about them. Now that I own one and have worked on one I could easily build one. IF I had the time!



I am very mechanically inclined. I build Harley engines in my spare time, Build Jeeps for off-road, I have a 635hp mustang running on E85.......I've turned all the wrenches on them. 

When I needed a Jetter, I looked at it like this. This is my business, and with my business I don't cut corners, and I don't take foolish chances. Building a Jetter of my own was not the best choice IMO. I don't need a piece of equipment that may need adjustments, may need tinkering, may need fine tuning. I need a piece of equipment that works out of the box flawlessly. I refuse to look like a fool in front of my customer. If I built my own and had a small issue, I would never forgive myself. Sure I would work the bugs out, it would be like any of my other hobbies. But this is business and I wanted a piece of equipment that had all the bugs worked out. I also wanted a machine with a proven track record in the longevity department. 

IMO buying a Jetter from a company is EXACTLY what I preach to my customers. Sure you can hire a handyman to fix your plumbing and hes much cheaper. OR you can hire me a licensed professional who does this for a living and never have to worry about weather it was done correctly or not. We sell piece of mind, that is why we get paid what we do. 

Buying a Jetter from JNW or any other reputable company does cost more than building your own. It costs more for a few reasons. 

1. It looks professional, its not random equipment thrown together and doesn't look like a pressure washer. That builds much value in what you are selling. I have referenced my jetter to a pressure washer to my customers before, and their response was "my pressure washer is nothing like your Jetter, that thing is a beast" they were talking about my brute btw

2. It has a proven track record of performing as it should. They have perfected the machine and work all the bugs out of the combination. 

3. It has a warranty should you have any issues. 

4. Customer support, they will spend the time with you on the phone or in person if local helping you with any issues or learning curves you are having. 


JNW's customer support is second to none IMO. I had a big job scheduled and was going to need both of my jetters and had 5 guys lined up to work for 4 days straight during a shut down. The afternoon before the job started, we setup on the job and did a little pre cleaning with my Harben. I blew a burst disc. I called harben and they told me it would take a couple days to get me one. I called JNW and explained the situation. Steve told me their fedex had not gone out for the day and assured me I would have a hand full of burst discs for my harben by 10am the next day. They came the next day like he said, and I never doubted it. 

BUY A JNW BRUTE, you not only get a great machine, you also get a great company standing behind the product.


----------



## AndersenPlumbing

SewerRatz said:


> Yea, they stopped calling me for a couple years now. I seen them out there with a rented Eel model C rodding from the inspection manhole back to the trap.
> 
> The owner called me Saturday and asked if I could come jet his line. The guy be is using is not lasting as long as it did when I jetted. I explained to him my truck is in the shop and I don't have one to tow the trailer. Also that I don't like jetting in these temperatures. Told him I can com rod the sewer and do the jetting when the temperature gets above freezing. He said he can rod it himself, then asked if I know anyone that can do a good job. So I gave him your number.
> 
> I did explain to him that he will get what he pays for. A good quality cleaning is not cheap. I used to get $605.00 to jet his line.


I've had enough of customers like that lately!


----------



## AndersenPlumbing

gear junkie said:


> How much does the brute cost?


 Shoot me a PM and I will let you know what I was quoted in 2012


----------



## theplungerman

Gear,,, no I wasn't referring to you. You haven't bagged directly on jnw,, you just bag on All cart jetters indiscriminately. Lol,,, I respect your gumption to build your own and save the money. On the other hand and piggy backing on Andersons tone,,,, you would have to spend much more time than an hour to get a pressure washer with 9gpm and 4k psi specs to look like a Proffesional plumbers sewer jetter. 
Sure the big brute isn't cheap, and yeah you could save approximately 2500. But not be close to looking as Proffesional as a brute looks. And 2 good days of wages should get you close to that savings
Fist you need a frame to handle all that jazz. The mounted reel, humongous advantage. Imo
Where are you going to get that perfect frame like the brute has. 
OK I'll weld it you say or modify the pressure washer frame,, Well that's about a day if you grind down your welds and paint it. This includes running down the steel. 
For me I'm busy enough working calls,,, and paying extra to have a Co custom transform a pressure washer into a plumbers sewer jetter and paying 2-3 grand extra is more than worth it. 
And there no chance you look like your cutting corners with your equipment.


----------



## Will

For a cart jetter I would have to agree with Gear, for a trailer jetter, I'd say just buy one. But if you got the time, then building one, even a trailer is not a bad idea. Just don't cheap out. That is way my Jetter I built a few year back didn't work to my standards, I bought two 13hp honda instead of one 24hp. Would have worked better using one.


To give y'all an idea what Gear is talking about, a jetter is nothing more than bolting stuff together. You take a engine, and you bolt it to the drive shaft. Then you add a storage tank, a prefilter and a unloader valve then you either dump the water back into your tank or dump on the ground. Add a gauge and a manual shut off. Figure you specs, and order the nozzles, hoses, and reels. Now you have a jetter. 

A 25 hp Subaru engine is around 1500 bucks, so is the udor pump for it. Thats 3000 bucks. The Reels, hoses, and other accessories might add another 1500. Then you still got to get a cart. Not sure what the Big Brute cost, but if its cost to $5000.00 then you might as well buy it from JNW. If it's closer to $10000.00 then you have to decide if you want to save $5000.00 or not.


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## Unclog1776

I haven't seen the exact quote with the extras I want it I was quoted 7300 for the brute as is in the pics on their site. I want the portable hose real and the warthog nozzle from them as well. I'm thinking close to 9 grand


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## Drain Pro

FWIW, I've talked on the phone with John from JNW. He seems like a great guy and he's very knowledgeable. I'd buy a cart jetter in a second from them if that's what I was in the market for. Actually, I've seriously considered asking them to build a skid for me. I'm just concerned about the gasoline engines having the balls to give me 4000/18 over the long haul.


----------



## Will

Unclog1776 said:


> I haven't seen the exact quote with the extras I want it I was quoted 7300 for the brute as is in the pics on their site. I want the portable hose real and the warthog nozzle from them as well. I'm thinking close to 9 grand



Which Brute is this? The Brute or the Big Brute? Good price if its the Big Brute


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## Will

Drain Pro said:


> FWIW, I've talked on the phone with John from JNW. He seems like a great guy and he's very knowledgeable. I'd buy a cart jetter in a second from them if that's what I was in the market for. Actually, I've seriously considered asking them to build a skid for me. I'm just concerned about the gasoline engines having the balls to give me 4000/18 over the long haul.



That is true, but when you blow up one of those engines you will still have one you can use while you order the new one since they a tandem engines,. You can still jet, just will be at half the GPM. Plus there alot cheaper than a diesel


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## Drain Pro

Will said:


> That is true, but when you blow up one of those engines you will still have one you can use while you order the new one since they a tandem engines,. You can still jet, just will be at half the GPM. Plus there alot cheaper than a diesel


I've factored that in as well. John at JNW also made the same point. I'll make my final decision after I leave the pumper show at the end of the month.


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## theplungerman

Drain Pro said:


> I've factored that in as well. John at JNW also made the same point. I'll make my final decision after I leave the pumper show at the end of the month.


I'll be there. I will be the guy starting arguments with everyone. Lol


----------



## gear junkie

theplungerman said:


> I'll be there. I will be the guy starting arguments with everyone. Lol


Good to know....easier to avoid, lol. kidding. 

BTW.....gave the new pump a test run today. 4.5 gpm 3000 psi. the bottom of the 2x4 was 10 seconds, the middle 5 seconds and the top was a quick swipe. I think it'll still take care of roots.


----------



## theplungerman

Drain Pro said:


> FWIW, I've talked on the phone with John from JNW. He seems like a great guy and he's very knowledgeable. I'd buy a cart jetter in a second from them if that's what I was in the market for. Actually, I've seriously considered asking them to build a skid for me. I'm just concerned about the gasoline engines having the balls to give me 4000/18 over the long haul.


I think I have some good news for you. If thats all your concerned about then you don't have anything to be concerned about imo..... You will get (save a lemon), a fine life out of a gas engine, and having two helps., if one goes down you can still take care of business and a new 28 ish hp engine isn't going to break the bank like a 50hp diesel will. It's a win win,, a no brainer in my book.


----------



## AndersenPlumbing

When I was in the market for 4k @ 18gpm i wasn't too sold on the dual motor thing. Maybe more so because I already have a 8.5gpm @3.6k


I liked the idea of a diesel, I have more faith in a German build diesel than two jap gas engines for the long haul. But that's just my opinion. Also only having one pump to maintain/replace seems better to me. Imagine if something happened to your filter and bad water got into two pumps.


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## Will

I think if I build another jetter, I'm going with a 38-40hp Kohler Command engine. There around 2500-3000 bucks. If have cushy in a gas engine and if they do go bad, if bolt on a new one


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## Unclog1776

Well it should be here in a few weeks. Being delivered to my buddies shop he has a loading dock and fork lift. I'll post pics while it's still nice and shiny


----------



## gear junkie

So.....don't keep us in suspense.....what did you get?


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## Unclog1776

I got the 4000psi 9gpm cart model. Got the portable hose real as well as warthog and chisel nozzle. I will get a root rat but want to order that from the same guy I got my 1/2" model from. Also got the "trap hose" kit. Never used one of those before


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## stecar

Got mine, same set up , 2 weeks ago. Gonna wait till temps are above freezing to play with it. Still have to buy an enclosed trailer and spare water tank.


----------



## Cuda

If I remember right the bagger was some guy who lived real close to JNW just can't remember who it was........
On a side note I was there today to pick up a part.


----------



## Drain Pro

theplungerman said:


> I think I have some good news for you. If thats all your concerned about then you don't have anything to be concerned about imo..... You will get (save a lemon), a fine life out of a gas engine, and having two helps., if one goes down you can still take care of business and a new 28 ish hp engine isn't going to break the bank like a 50hp diesel will. It's a win win,, a no brainer in my book.


Just curious, what made you break the bank for the mongoose?


----------



## Will

Unclog1776 said:


> I got the 4000psi 9gpm cart model. Got the portable hose real as well as warthog and chisel nozzle. I will get a root rat but want to order that from the same guy I got my 1/2" model from. Also got the "trap hose" kit. Never used one of those before


What is the weight of that Big Brute? 300-400 lbs? Are you planing on adding a hoist to get it into your van or pull in in a trailer?


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> What is the weight of that Big Brute? 300-400 lbs? Are you planing on adding a hoist to get it into your van or pull in in a trailer?


it is in the 300 range with full tanks of gas and water and hose full of water.


----------



## HP plumber

I like your set up gear junkie that would be perfect for someone like me who just wants to offer an additional service but isn't ready jump out and buy a trailer jetter so all you did is buy a Honda pressure washer and installed a pump and reel? Have any of you guys ever jetted a cast-iron line and knocked all the scale off the inside pipe walls and created a bigger problem by filling the line with scale buildup and not being able to flush it out. As you can tell my Jetting experience is minimal.


----------



## Will

HP plumber said:


> I like your set up gear junkie that would be perfect for someone like me who just wants to offer an additional service but isn't ready jump out and buy a trailer jetter so all you did is buy a Honda pressure washer and installed a pump and reel? Have any of you guys ever jetted a cast-iron line and knocked all the scale off the inside pipe walls and created a bigger problem by filling the line with scale buildup and not being able to flush it out. As you can tell my Jetting experience is minimal.


 Not sure what gear did, but you will want to change up the inlet to the pump with a inline filter and hose adaptor, then ad a unloader valve and guage on the outlet then your jumper to the reel


----------



## Unclog1776

I almost ordered the skid version just for that reason. I ended up going with the cart so that when we work at a large industrial area they can take it off for us with a fork lift. For the most part it's going to stay in the van and we will use the portable hose reel


----------



## sierra2000

Unclog1776 said:


> I got the 4000psi 9gpm cart model. Got the portable hose real as well as warthog and chisel nozzle. I will get a root rat but want to order that from the same guy I got my 1/2" model from. Also got the "trap hose" kit. Never used one of those before


I'm a novice when it comes to jetting nozzles. In what situation would you be using the chisel nozzle? I have the same setup you have.


----------



## gear junkie

HP plumber said:


> I like your set up gear junkie that would be perfect for someone like me who just wants to offer an additional service but isn't ready jump out and buy a trailer jetter so all you did is buy a Honda pressure washer and installed a pump and reel? Have any of you guys ever jetted a cast-iron line and knocked all the scale off the inside pipe walls and created a bigger problem by filling the line with scale buildup and not being able to flush it out. As you can tell my Jetting experience is minimal.


Basically yes....all bolt together...just the same as a jetter company. That pump however is probably the best type of direct drive pump there is. Cat pump 4sf series. The frame is from a karcher pressure washer with some cutting and welding to install the lifting eye and allow the pump to fit. As for the scale buildup.....I've ran the root ranger upstream and was able to get the scale out fairly easily. Cleaning about 40' of cast filled up a 5 gal bucket of scale. Now if your main focus is scale.....you need to contact Jake Saltzman at LMK and talk to him about the Picote chain system. I've seen before and after video of work that Anderson Plumbing did using that system.....never before was I so impressed with scale removal results. Beats out any chain flail system like the keg or root rat for scale removal imo. This picote system is going to be the next thing in drain cleaning. Not sure where you're at but I have no problem teaching someone how to jet if you're in socal.


Will said:


> Not sure what gear did, but you will want to change up the inlet to the pump with a inline filter and hose adaptor, then ad a unloader valve and guage on the outlet then your jumper to the reel


I don't use a big inlet filter but a simple washer screen because I connect to a garden hose. One thing I do is always run water out the hose before hooking it up to the jetter. The reel on my jetter is for 50' jumper hose. My 200' reel is a simple General reel on a aluminum base. It weighs the same as a k60 so I don't think wheels are needed. My jetter stays far away when jetting so I can listen to what is happening. I have everything else you mentioned Will, can you clarify how I might change it up? One thing I need that is very important and I'm ordering today is a pop off valve cat pump #33962. I'll installing it between the ball valve(on right side of pump) and the pump.


----------



## theplungerman

Unclog1776 said:


> I got the 4000psi 9gpm cart model. Got the portable hose real as well as warthog and chisel nozzle. I will get a root rat but want to order that from the same guy I got my 1/2" model from. Also got the "trap hose" kit. Never used one of those before


I just ordered the trap hose kit too,,, I got him to throw in a couple of cheap nozzels for it cuz I helped him sell it to you..... Lol
Consider the keg micro mini, Chain cutter, 1150,, I made a video, ,,



, money back guarantee if u no like,, 
Congratulations awesome cart jetter,,, can't get any studlier re cart jetter.


----------



## Unclog1776

sierra2000 said:


> I'm a novice when it comes to jetting nozzles. In what situation would you be using the chisel nozzle? I have the same setup you have.


I have one for my trailer jet. I use it as a starting nozzle to make a hole in a root or grease mass so I can get something bigger in first. Or in the event of a line clogged by roots and your only option is running from the wet end I'll use it to make the system drain as chain flail nozzles don't work well when under water, it really slows the RPMs


----------



## theplungerman

Cuda said:


> If I remember right the bagger was some guy who lived real close to JNW just can't remember who it was........
> On a side note I was there today to pick up a part.


What a coincidence,,, cuz u live close too,,, Hmmm small world,,, lol


----------



## theplungerman

Drain Pro said:


> Just curious, what made you break the bank for the mongoose?


I wanted to be able to clear blockages with 1 hand tied behind my back with my eyes closed. 
I ran into to many drama jobs with my smaller jetter. No drama now.
I didn't want to have to manipulate a blockage using this trick or that. Now it's BAM,, C YA. 
I'm a want the best kind of guy. And I wanted other plumber's to hire me and they won't if they aren't impressed or confident I can help them. I had 1 plumber tell me,,, no offense but I'm not going to call you again,,, your cart takes to long,, this was a serious root blockage.... I'm going to call the other guy with the trailer. 
A note,,, I'm kicking butt with 9ish gpm and a warthog on my 3/8 hose,, that extra 3gpm seems to be making a very big difference. 
If I get the big brute maybe I don't go trailer,,,,


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## Unclog1776

I would encourage anyone who is the "go to guy" in there area to consider a high flow flusher unit if they can find one decently priced. I bought mine for 1200 bucks and dumped about 10 grand and a lot of blood sweat tears and late nights at the shop but that 35 GPM kicks butt on clogged 10" storms. I make a killing off flooded parking lots every time we get a heavy rain. It's wham bam thank you ma'am in and out in an hour and on to the next one. No such thing as too many tools


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## Best Darn Sewer

Unclog1776 said:


> I would encourage anyone who is the "go to guy" in there area to consider a high flow flusher unit if they can find one decently priced. I bought mine for 1200 bucks and dumped about 10 grand and a lot of blood sweat tears and late nights at the shop but that 35 GPM kicks butt on clogged 10" storms. I make a killing off flooded parking lots every time we get a heavy rain. It's wham bam thank you ma'am in and out in an hour and on to the next one. No such thing as too many tools


What size tank do you use?


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## Drain Pro

theplungerman said:


> I wanted to be able to clear blockages with 1 hand tied behind my back with my eyes closed. I ran into to many drama jobs with my smaller jetter. No drama now. I didn't want to have to manipulate a blockage using this trick or that. Now it's BAM,, C YA. I'm a want the best kind of guy. And I wanted other plumber's to hire me and they won't if they aren't impressed or confident I can help them. I had 1 plumber tell me,,, no offense but I'm not going to call you again,,, your cart takes to long,, this was a serious root blockage.... I'm going to call the other guy with the trailer. A note,,, I'm kicking butt with 9ish gpm and a warthog on my 3/8 hose,, that extra 3gpm seems to be making a very big difference. If I get the big brute maybe I don't go trailer,,,,


I'm kind of the same way and I'd be willing to drop 40-50k on a machine. That being said, if I can get the same results for 25-30k why spend more? I was on the phone today with John from JNW. He's confident in his machine and I'm getting there myself. Like I said earlier, I'll go to the show and finalize my research there.


----------



## gear junkie

Are there more then 2 Johns at JNW? I called yesterday to ask about a used bruiser plus being sold in the area and I talked to a John that said he didn't know anything about the engine size and had me talk to Steve. John said he more on the Seattle Pump side of things. I really hope someone that doesn't even know what engine size of a jetter they sell isn't consider a subject matter expert.....or maybe the questions just weren't hard enough? Maybe Plungerman warned them about me so they're on guard for anyone named Ben, haha?


----------



## Unclog1776

best darn sewer said:


> what size tank do you use?


600


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## Drain Pro

gear junkie said:


> Are there more then 2 Johns at JNW? I called yesterday to ask about a used bruiser plus being sold in the area and I talked to a John that said he didn't know anything about the engine size and had me talk to Steve. John said he more on the Seattle Pump side of things. I really hope someone that doesn't even know what engine size of a jetter they sell isn't consider a subject matter expert.....or maybe the questions just weren't hard enough? Maybe Plungerman warned them about me so they're on guard for anyone named Ben, haha?


I spoke with John McBride. He is very knowledgable about jetters and seems to have a complete understanding of how they are built/operate.


----------



## stecar

Steve is the go to guy, I believe John is his partner.


----------



## Drain Pro

stecar said:


> Steve is the go to guy, I believe John is his partner.


I'm not an expert on the internal mechanics of a water jet, but John was able to answer every question I had.


----------



## Unclog1776

Just ordered myself a 3/8" root rat nozzle. This is crazy I'm going to go broke waiting for this thing. It's like buying a gun with a wait period, I spend the 3 days buying lasers and extra mags online


----------



## plbgbiz

I'll post details later but I just had an amazing conversation with John at JNW.

Great details on why the HP formulas are contrary to the specs offered by certain jetter manufacturers.


----------



## Drain Pro

plbgbiz said:


> I'll post details later but I just had an amazing conversation with John at JNW. Great details on why the HP formulas are contrary to the specs offered by certain jetter manufacturers.


I think we're keeping him busy.


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## Unclog1776

I was going to call him tomorrow about a few special nozzles I would like to order. Think you guys could leave him alone between 2 and 4 lol


----------



## theplungerman

gear junkie said:


> Are there more then 2 Johns at JNW? I called yesterday to ask about a used bruiser plus being sold in the area and I talked to a John that said he didn't know anything about the engine size and had me talk to Steve. John said he more on the Seattle Pump side of things. I really hope someone that doesn't even know what engine size of a jetter they sell isn't consider a subject matter expert.....or maybe the questions just weren't hard enough? Maybe Plungerman warned them about me so they're on guard for anyone named Ben, haha?


Maybe he's really good about sniffing out the tire kickers who aren't gonna buy anyway. Lol
Steve is the sales manager, and John McBride is in charge of production. But John does sales as well.


----------



## plbgbiz

theplungerman said:


> Maybe he's really good about sniffing out the tire kickers who aren't gonna buy anyway. Lol Steve is the sales manager, and John McBride is in charge of production. But John does sales as well.


John is the one that designs their machines. He is the one that is the decision maker on which engine, pump, nozzles, etc.... they sell.


----------



## SewerRatz

plbgbiz said:


> I'll post details later but I just had an amazing conversation with John at JNW.
> 
> Great details on why the HP formulas are contrary to the specs offered by certain jetter manufacturers.


Certain jetter manufactures including them. If you recall me crunching the numbers on there brutes.


----------



## plbgbiz

Okay here goes, just remember you are getting technical engineering data from a guy that fixes toilets for a living but I will do my best. I have two pages of notes from my conversation with John at JNW. I'm not sure what part of his day I interrupted when I called but he never rushed me and really helped me understand this whole horse power thing.

The question I gave him was, "Why do so many new jetters (including JNW) not have enough HP to produce the PSI/GPM combinations that are promised? I get 4K on my pressure and my 200gal tank empties almost exactly at 20 minutes. Yet according to the common formula of (GPM*PSI)/1100=HP does not add up to the 28hp Subaru that you sold me. It should have been a 33hp engine, right?"

His response paraphrased...

This all centers around the SAE mechanical standards for determining HP. Those standards have changed. Originally, manufacturers were allowed to publish HP ratings in advertisements at 15%+/- of the dyno results. And the method of that testing was crazy as well. The standardized test was at sea level, no muffler, no air cleaner, and no governor. 

So an engine advertised as 35hp likely only tested at 29.75hp. And that was before the muffler, air cleaner, and governor were added. And of course it may not be being used at sea level. After those add-ons, it probably wasn't even getting the 29, much less 35. 

That built in discrepancy is part of what was being allowed for with the 1,100 factor in the formula. The formula may specify a 35hp engine, but built into the formula is the 15% (or more) fudge factor in the HP ratings.

Now the SAE standard for newly designed engines has changed. They are still tested at sea level but it is with the factory muffler, with the factory air cleaner, and without a governor. AND...the published HP rating can only be 5%+/- instead of 15%+/-. Now an engine advertised at 35hp should be producing roughly 33hp or more. That's 4 extra ponies or, a 27% HP increase.

Because the standards were tightened for engine manufacturers, the formula has been changed to use a factor of 1,460. Otherwise, engines would be needlessly oversized. 

When JNW designs a unit, they use the new formula. They also add an additional 10% just to be sure.

The JNW Eagle 200: 9gm, 4000psi

(9gpm*4,000psi)/1,460 = 24.66hp.

24.66hp/.9 (this adds 10%) = 27.4hp

Then they round up to the next available unit = Subaru 28hp.


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## plbgbiz

And just because the water is not muddy enough...

Manufacturers are still allowed to market existing design engines based on the old rule. So depending on the engine chosen, it may require a much larger HP because of the testing method used for that particular engine.


----------



## theplungerman

Wow, very cool posts, Thank you.


----------



## Will

I remember that also John. Also if I remember correctly Japanese and American engines are rated different. A 28 Subaru would be a 25 hp engine under old testing right?


----------



## plbgbiz

Will said:


> I remember that also John. Also if I remember correctly Japanese and American engines are rated different. A 28 Subaru would be a 25 hp engine under old testing right?


 Not sure but you could be right. If what he told me is accurate (I have no reason to think it isn't), the HP ratings on small engines is no more definitive than the calling of fouls in the NBA. 

He did specifically mention the Honda GX390 which is the most popular small pressure washer engine sold in the USA. A few years ago it was marketed as a 13hp engine and size was not focused on. Now the HP is not the focus, but rather the attention is on the 389cc displacement. That is because with no functional change in the specs, it now has to be sold as 11.7hp. 

And based on the testing criteria and methods, if you don't live on the beach (sea level), you will never see 11.7hp out of that motor, much less 13.


----------



## SewerRatz

So if what John is saying is true, the other manufacturers of jetters that have been bashed for having a supposedly undersized engine, are in the clear as well.

For example Spartan has taken a lot of heat if you compared their engine choice for the advertised psi x gpm ratings. You would think a place like Spartan, General, Ridgid and dozens of other jetter manufacturers have an engineer on staff do ensure the system is designed to perform as advertised. Just because the sale staff and basic technicians couldn't explain reason why the engine didn't match up with the (psi x gpm)/1100 formula (or didn't want to) doesn't mean they are a horrible company. What makes a horrible company is poor or nonexistent customer support while you own their products.

I'll have to do some research into small engine hp ratings. I am not one to take what one person says at face value.


----------



## plbgbiz

SewerRatz said:


> So if what John is saying is true, the other manufacturers of jetters that have been bashed for having a supposedly undersized engine, are in the clear as well.
> 
> For example Spartan has taken a lot of heat if you compared their engine choice for the advertised psi x gpm ratings. You would think a place like Spartan, General, Ridgid and dozens of other jetter manufacturers have an engineer on staff do ensure the system is designed to perform as advertised. Just because the sale staff and basic technicians couldn't explain reason why the engine didn't match up with the (psi x gpm)/1100 formula (or didn't want to) doesn't mean they are a horrible company. What makes a horrible company is poor or nonexistent customer support while you own their products.
> 
> I'll have to do some research into small engine hp ratings. I am not one to take what one person says at face value.


Exactly Ron.

Spartan for instance, lost me because the sales rep knew nothing about the equipment he was trying demonstrate. My avoidance of them really has nothing to do spec issues since I didn't really have much of a handle on the specs anyway.

I feel a little more confident now but like you said, I am still repeating what I have been told. I am in no position to personally verify the engineering data claims.

Except...

My gauge does show 4,000psi and my 200 gallon tank does empty in about 20 minutes. Regardless of the engine label, that seems to verify the 9gpm/4,000psi claims made by JNW.


----------



## gear junkie

Interesting and I've never heard this before. I'll look into this for my own research.


----------



## plbgbiz

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021501732.html


----------



## sierra2000

At least since 1997, the engine manufacturers Briggs, Tecumseh, Kohler, Toro and Kawasaki have reported horsepower ratings to the EPA that were significantly lower than the ratings advertised to the public, the lawsuit said.


^^^ So that means my Big Brute Subaru engine is in the clear. Whew!


----------



## Drain Pro

SewerRatz said:


> So if what John is saying is true, the other manufacturers of jetters that have been bashed for having a supposedly undersized engine, are in the clear as well. For example Spartan has taken a lot of heat if you compared their engine choice for the advertised psi x gpm ratings. You would think a place like Spartan, General, Ridgid and dozens of other jetter manufacturers have an engineer on staff do ensure the system is designed to perform as advertised. Just because the sale staff and basic technicians couldn't explain reason why the engine didn't match up with the (psi x gpm)/1100 formula (or didn't want to) doesn't mean they are a horrible company. What makes a horrible company is poor or nonexistent customer support while you own their products. I'll have to do some research into small engine hp ratings. I am not one to take what one person says at face value.


It's been my experience that Spartans customer service is awful.


----------



## Unclog1776

As someone who just spent 9700 with JNW I have to say that I have zero complaints on all ends


----------



## Drain Pro

Unclog1776 said:


> As someone who just spent 9700 with JNW I have to say that I have zero complaints on all ends


John is working on designing a 4000/18 skid unit for me. He seems very competent. There machines look very well built as well.


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## MACPLUMB777

Trojan cart jetter
can carry 475' of 1/2" hose or 550' of 3/8" hose
pump produces 4250 psi delivers 4000 psi at the nozzles
with a gx390 engine, 5 year warranty on pump and engine
with 3 nozzles, 1-spinner, 1 open end, 1 closed end :thumbup:

with 24 hour, and 7 days a week customer service and technical support


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## Unclog1776

I have No complaints about customer service or his ability to answer questions regarding the unit. It will be a few weeks before I get it but I hope to make a video right off the bat for the zone as well as my full review.


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## Unclog1776

Going crazy with anticipation waiting forth is thing to show up. What sort of order to delivery time frame did you guys experience. I was told approx 4 weeks


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## sierra2000

I forgot how long I waited.


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## Drain Pro

Unclog1776 said:


> Going crazy with anticipation waiting forth is thing to show up. What sort of order to delivery time frame did you guys experience. I was told approx 4 weeks


I know their getting ready for a trade show in California.


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## plbgbiz

Received mine in just a couple of weeks.


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## gear junkie

Just another reason to go DIY.....imagine if you only had 1 jetter and it went down? You'd be sol for a month until it showed up.


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## theplungerman

Unclog1776 said:


> Going crazy with anticipation waiting forth is thing to show up. What sort of order to delivery time frame did you guys experience. I was told approx 4 weeks


I got mine in about a week,,, but that's because it was allready built. And yeah they are busy getting ready for trade show in my stomping grounds. You might see it aprox 3 weeks.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber

Drain Pro said:


> I know their getting ready for a trade show in California.


Are they gonna be at the flow expo?


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## Drain Pro

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> Are they gonna be at the flow expo?


I believe so.


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## theplungerman

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> Are they gonna be at the flow expo?


Yes I spoke to them last week, they are bringing a eagle 300 and several carts and skid jetters.


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## Unclog1776

Well my baby left Seattle today. Got so excited I went out and bought a 12 foot enclosed trailer for it


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## stecar

I bought one also. Takes 4 weenka to get, good luck with it.


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## HP plumber

Hey unclog are u getting a large demand for jetter calls or are you gonna just start offering one on every stoppage. What's your plan?


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## theplungerman

If you buy it, the jobs will come. 
While sorting my truck out last week at supply house,,, with my jetter in tow. I had 3 guys come and ask excitingly for a card. 1 guy called me yesterday. And that same scenario has happened several times allready and the jobs from other plumbers are starting to roll in on a semi regular basis just from other plumbers. 
I sold a jetter job today because I had it with me. In the 4 months with just a very little effort marketing it it's paying off big time. 10 years ago I bought a sports car during a midlife crisis. I wish I had bought a jetter. Oh well, live and learn. NO GUTS NO GLORY.


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## Best Darn Sewer

theplungerman said:


> 10 years ago I bought a sports car during a midlife crisis. I wish I had bought a jetter. Oh well, live and learn. NO GUTS NO GLORY.


Haha.


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## Unclog1776

HP plumber said:


> Hey unclog are u getting a large demand for jetter calls or are you gonna just start offering one on every stoppage. What's your plan?


We have ran a large trailer jet flushing unit for years now with most clients being small municipalities and large commercial complexes. Constantly being called to see if we can jet anything smaller than 6" so I finally pulled the trigger and got the brute. Everyone in my area knows it's coming, I'm confident it will stay busy


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## HP plumber

Oh hell yea wish u luck and lots of jobs. I think jetting is a great service to offer I want to do the same soon.


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## ShaneP

I too hope to get a jetter soon. I am just trying to decide on the cart or small trailer. I think the sale would be easier if the jetter is on the truck and ready to go on every call. Most of my customers just want their drain cleaned out, but I am hoping for some upsells with more equipment.


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## 422 plumber

ShaneP said:


> I too hope to get a jetter soon. I am just trying to decide on the cart or small trailer. I think the sale would be easier if the jetter is on the truck and ready to go on every call. Most of my customers just want their drain cleaned out, but I am hoping for some upsells with more equipment.


If you buy a trailer jetter, you can also buy a cart set-up that runs off the jetter. Depending on climate, you might want to get one that lets you run in below freezing temps.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Unclog1776

Just got it. Hoping to use this afternoon


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## Best Darn Sewer

Unclog1776 said:


> Just got it. Hoping to use this afternoon


Definitely looking forward to reading about your experience with it. I'm especially interested in reading about your experience with using the foot pedal.


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## stecar

Did you get the spare tank?


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## Drain Pro

Unclog1776 said:


> Just got it. Hoping to use this afternoon


Nice! Good luck with it!


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## Unclog1776

Didn't get to use it in the field today but fired it up at the shop. That thing has some major balls that's about all I can say without using on a sewer yet. The wheel break is really crappy though. It's heavily secured to the floor of my trailer now though


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## Unclog1776

The foot pedal is going to be a whole new thing for me and the guys. Have a job lined up for it tomorrow afternoon. 4" line between house and septic tank. Going to dig up the inlet and jet back towards structure. Tank was just emptied this morning but still no flow, owner thinks like is cast iron


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## theplungerman

Congratulations,, I'm sure you will be more than happy with it. The foot brake is only for on the job stability, not to keep it from moving around at highway speeds and stops. Be happy, my big bruiser didn't have one. 
Suggestion, zip tie a piece of pvc pipe to it to hold the hose end,,, or something like that,,, it's a beast of a cart jetter. Jet on bro.


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## Unclog1776

Not really upset about the wheel brakes because everything else seems extremely durable and well built. Drilled a couple 2x4s into the trailer floor between the axes to act as wheel chalks then ran a ratchet strap across the frame and secured that to the floor


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## theplungerman

Yeah its solid,,, and any issues etc, they have great customer service. 
I saw them at the long beach flow expo and talked with them awhile,,,, they take their business seriously. 
There coming out with a new jetter same specs as the big brute for half the money next month. Lol, Jk.


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## plbgbiz

theplungerman said:


> Yeah its solid,,, and any issues etc, they have great customer service. I saw them at the long beach flow expo and talked with them awhile,,,, they take their business seriously. There coming out with a new jetter same specs as the big brute for half the money next month. Lol, Jk.


 Heard it will be on a trailer too. Half price for one day after 03/31. :laughing:


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## Unclog1776

That happens everytime I get a new phone or tv


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## Unclog1776

This thing is a beast. Did three 6" sanitary lines with it already today. One more septic to go. Takes longer to set up than it does to clear the line. I'm sure we will improve set up with time as we get better. Don't like foot switch. Used it once and went back to balls valve. It seems like more of a dead man switch than an on off valve as you have to force it on


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## Best Darn Sewer

Unclog1776 said:


> This thing is a beast. Did three 6" sanitary lines with it already today. One more septic to go. Takes longer to set up than it does to clear the line. I'm sure we will improve set up with time as we get better. Don't like foot switch. Used it once and went back to balls valve. It seems like more of a dead man switch than an on off valve as you have to force it on


What brand foot switch did you get? So you really had to put your weight into it?


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## theplungerman

Unclog1776 said:


> This thing is a beast. Did three 6" sanitary lines with it already today. One more septic to go. Takes longer to set up than it does to clear the line. I'm sure we will improve set up with time as we get better. Don't like foot switch. Used it once and went back to balls valve. It seems like more of a dead man switch than an on off valve as you have to force it on


Sorry about foot switch,,,, I don't like the thought of no quick on off,,, call them and tell em,,,, 9gpm 4000psi is enough to create a serious injury.


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## sierra2000

It took some getting used to but I like the idea of having it cause I work alone a lot while jetting.


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## Unclog1776

Maybe mine is defective. I could only get it to work when pressure was off. Not sure brand will check tomorrow. I always have two guys on scene so working the ball valve isn't a huge deal


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## Unclog1776

Am I doing something wrong with it? Didn't have instructions


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## sierra2000

Inlet and outlet plugged into correctly?


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## Unclog1776

Yeah they came labeled and one is threaded other is quick connect so somewhat dumbass proof lol


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## gear junkie

?? Why aren't they both quick connect? Inlet should be 3/8, outlet 1/4.....is that how it is?


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## Unclog1776

The jumped hose going from the foot control to the remote reel is threaded on one end. Could make em both quick connect with minor mods


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## gear junkie

the hose from the jetter should go into the 3/8 side. The 1/4" should go to the hose reel on wheels.


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## Unclog1776

Update. 

Have had this thing for almost 2 months now and don't know how I ever operated without it. Been learning the warthog and this thing is amazing. When positioned correctly with aid of the camera I can removed huge root masses within minuets. My main line cable machine is collecting dust. I won give out specific numbers unless you PM me but I have generated a very nice amount of cash with it and am still competitively priced for my area. My lead employee jokes that we are an "augerless sewer cleaning company" now. 

Must have for anyone doing 6" or smaller sewers on a regular basis


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## Will

How you getting it out of the truck?


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## Unclog1776

I bought a 12 foot enclosed trailer same time as the brute. Only time it has left the trailer was for its first fluid change. I use the portable reel everyday.


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## Unclog1776




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## stecar

You running off the stock tank? I have my brute in the fron, was going to mount 2 separate tanks over the axles.


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## Unclog1776

I have a few issues now and then with homeowners water pressure. I have the fittings rigged up so I can feed it with my trailer jet set on idle.


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## theplungerman

Big difference between 6 and 9 gpm. I use my 3/8 hose and it getties up. 
Have you seen this
http://youtu.be/YVEcZqQYtq0


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## Shoot'N'Plumber

theplungerman said:


> Big difference between 6 and 9 gpm. I use my 3/8 hose and it getties up.
> Have you seen this
> http://youtu.be/YVEcZqQYtq0


 wow that's pretty sweet


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## SewerRatz

theplungerman said:


> Big difference between 6 and 9 gpm. I use my 3/8 hose and it getties up.
> Have you seen this
> http://youtu.be/YVEcZqQYtq0


I would of been more impressed if they loaded it up on the truck.


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## gear junkie

theplungerman said:


> Big difference between 6 and 9 gpm. I use my 3/8 hose and it getties up.
> Have you seen this
> http://youtu.be/YVEcZqQYtq0


Ok.....even I might buy that thing depending on the price. There are crawlers you could simply bolt a cart jetter to. This was a 30 hp jetter.


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## sierra2000

theplungerman said:


> Big difference between 6 and 9 gpm. I use my 3/8 hose and it getties up. Have you seen this http://youtu.be/YVEcZqQYtq0


That's the Mack Daddy of cart jetters.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber

sierra2000 said:


> that's the mack daddy of cart jetters.


word!


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## theplungerman

gear junkie said:


> Ok.....even I might buy that thing depending on the price. There are crawlers you could simply bolt a cart jetter to. This was a 30 hp jetter.


Simply? Lol
Your price range is dirt cheap. Lol


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## gear junkie

Simply....as in place skid on cart, drill 6 holes, insert 6 bolts and tighten with 6 nuts to appropriate tightness.


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## theplungerman

gear junkie said:


> Simply....as in place skid on cart, drill 6 holes, insert 6 bolts and tighten with 6 nuts to appropriate tightness.


That might require a trip to home Depot and that's never simple for me. 
Case in point, today I bought a brand new pair of knee pads at home Depot, hung them on the door. Did a job, forgot to turn door handle shut, 1 mile later at next stop, back doors open, 1 knee pad gone. 
Moral of story,,, most people would think going to home Depot for new Knee pads would be simple,,,,, not for me. :laughing:


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## theplungerman

theplungerman said:


> That might require a trip to home Depot and that's never simple for me.
> Case in point, today I bought a brand new pair of knee pads at home Depot, hung them on the door. Did a job, forgot to turn door handle shut, 1 mile later at next stop, back doors open, 1 knee pad gone.
> Moral of story,,, most people would think going to home Depot for new Knee pads would be simple,,,,, not for me. :laughing:


Update, 
1st a correction, it was Lowes,, 2nd I went in there today cuz I remember there was a single pad w/o a twin left in the box. Told the manager my woes and she gave me it free. So all in all it worked out, but it wasn't simple. Lol


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