# Air gap



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

killertoiletspider just reminded me over on CT about an air gap for a condensate for HVAC lines. This got me to thinking about all these hose bibs. I see every day many, and I mean many hose bibs put into new homes and they are right down on the ground. Some you cant even get your hands under nor connect a hose. Wonder how the inspectors miss this?


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

They have a built in vacuum breaker.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

not the ones I have seen, the frost free does, but I have seen many boiler drains being used.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

USP45 said:


> not the ones I have seen, the frost free does, but I have seen many boiler drains being used.


They are a code violation, but it won't get fixed till they try to sell the house or it fails.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Uh huh. Probably right. I hate to think about the fertilizer and other crap getting drawn back up into the hose. makes me shiver, just like a bored well.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

We put vacuum breakers on our hose bibs, but any idiot could remove them if they wanted to. Not sure why they would need to, but a lot of houses, we notice they are gone the week after final inspection. :no:


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Alan said:


> We put vacuum breakers on our hose bibs, but any idiot could remove them if they wanted to. Not sure why they would need to, but a lot of houses, we notice they are gone the week after final inspection. :no:


Don't most codes require a permanent VB? Those little add on VBs have a set screw to tighten up. It is made to break off once you get it tight enough. I always break them off. I can't afford the risk of getting sued because some idiot removed them and killed 3 people.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

22, thats why I use built in VB's and not the add ons. I carry a few in case we need to keep drawing water from a neighbor, especially doing commercial work. They look to me for water for the masons and things, thats why I keep a few screw on ones


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

We will install the woodford 24 series if not the frost proof ones.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Same ones we install down here....


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## Song Dog (Jun 12, 2008)

If we install a blr drn in a hose used for washing down stuff with a hose, it must have a VB or grind threads off.

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Don't most codes require a permanent VB? Those little add on VBs have a set screw to tighten up. It is made to break off once you get it tight enough.


I don't actually honestly know what the code says about that. Maybe if Ron pops back in, he can tell me exactly what it is for us. :blink:


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*My code requires 12" above grade for a silcock WITH an anti-siphon device..*
*When the silcock has no VB, we most often use a Watts 8-b, with a break-off set screw so it remains permanent.*

*I can't remember the last time I saw a silcock installed below sill level on a home...must be a regional thing.*


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

What UPC code says. I've had to install aa addon backflow to a standard hose do to a failed inspection for a house to get sold.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

What is the air gap for a tub then? 2"?


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

USP45 said:


> What is the air gap for a tub then? 2"?


* My code & most that I know of require 2 times the outlet diameter...a tub spout with a 1/2" would be 1".*


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Don't most codes require a permanent VB? Those little add on VBs have a set screw to tighten up. It is made to break off once you get it tight enough. I always break them off. I can't afford the risk of getting sued because some idiot removed them and killed 3 people.


The IPC uses the word permanent while the UPC uses the word non-removable but they basically mean the same thing. The vacuum breakers with the break-off screw would comply with either code when properly installed. While most can still remove the vacuum breakers with the break-off screw the screw destroys the threads making it to where a hose will not seal.

Mark


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> The IPC uses the word permanent while the UPC uses the word non-removable but they basically mean the same thing. The vacuum breakers with the break-off screw would comply with either code when properly installed. While most can still remove the vacuum breakers with the break-off screw the screw destroys the threads making it to where a hose will not seal.
> 
> Mark


*Welcome to the forum sir!*

*You should intro yourself...I almost did but I figure the honor should be yours.*


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

*According to UPC


*


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Welcome to the forum sir!*
> 
> *You should intro yourself...I almost did but I figure the honor should be yours.*


You are absolutely right and I apologize. To those who do not know me I have been a Contractor/Consultant in multiple States for the last 27-years and a Plumber for the last 35-years. I work mostly on the west coast but please don't hold that against me.

Mark


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

left coast, right coast, whats the difference? As long as we are all plumbers huh? Welcome to the site


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Welcome to the site, glad you joined.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Welcome bro... Its great here!


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## Kyle (Oct 4, 2008)

yea anti siphon same deal here . super super big deal on any chance of cross connection or back siphonage. new bibbs wth vacuum breaker a must. if replacing ... same deal. but ironically they sell frost free up here that are just boiler drain style.. very backwards if you ask me. things that are not approved for use should just not be sold. the home owner will always go with whats cheaper


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> The IPC uses the word permanent while the UPC uses the word non-removable but they basically mean the same thing. The vacuum breakers with the break-off screw would comply with either code when properly installed. While most can still remove the vacuum breakers with the break-off screw the screw destroys the threads making it to where a hose will not seal.
> 
> Mark


When I was in new const. the people I worked for used the screw on type with the break off set screw. I did warranty service for a number of years. After having the muffed up threads and having to replace hose bibbs as well, I figured out that you can take a hack saw and cut a shallow line into the sheared off set screw. Leaving a groove a small reg screw driver will fit. A small squirt of WD 40 and you can back it out when you wish to salvage a good hose bibb. Doesnt always work, sometimes you can drill them out as well. Hacksaw groove was the fastest.


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