# What do you use



## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

I am a little slow to change but I have worked with some pex and I mostly use cpvc on my water lines. Pex is a little slower for me to run and its been hard for me to make it look good it always seems sloppy looking compared to if I run cpvc. I always use pex on 2nd story houses then change back to cpvc under house. I'm just curious what the rest of you guys use here and if you use pex did you have a hard time making the transition.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I prefer copper. But on repairs, if the house has CPVC or pex, I'll make the repair in those materials.


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## PlumberJake (Nov 15, 2010)

I use copper or pex, depending on the budget. Cpvc is only found in mobile homes and DIY homeowner stuff. Must be a regional thing? 
Transition to pex was pretty much forced during the housing boom, so transition was easy.

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

We have used cpvc for the 12 or 13 urs I been doing this just outa curiosity how long does it take to run water lines under house using copper cause the typical 2000 sq ft house with 2.5 baths takes me about 2.5 hrs under house after I get everything stubbed down and the cost diff between copper and cpvc must be astronomical


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Tommy and Jake just outa curiosity where are you plumbing at I'm in TN.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm in south-east Florida. About 45 minutes north of Fort Lauderdale.


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## PlumberJake (Nov 15, 2010)

Mid-missouri. And copper takes a lot more time/money, but that's what some customers are still willing to pay for.

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

We are lucky to have work at all so if we had to go to copper we would be at a stand still there is just no one that would pay for it


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

mostly copper , but pex is in all the new homes. i have been wanting a worsbo kit


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

ranman said:


> mostly copper , but pex is in all the new homes. i have been wanting a worsbo kit


Sorry if this sounds dumb but what is a worsbo kit


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Ericw said:


> Sorry if this sounds dumb but what is a worsbo kit


It's Wirsbo.

http://www.uponor-usa.com/

http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CFAQ8wIwAQ#


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

yea i cant spell. oops


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

The only time I see CPVC is in a hacky job by someone unlicensed (ie-HO, DIYer, fly by night plumber). It would be considered a hardware store material since pex has been legal here. I don't carry a lick of it on my van, not even a fitting. I use a shark bite  and continue on with pex. That's one less thing to stock, one less thing to eventually fail, and one less thing I could be blamed for when the whole CPVC system freezes up in winter and shatters.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Wow I thought I was using 2nd best here so how do you guys make the transition to the meter because you can't run peculiar under ground. This is really interesting to know how other people do things and that you think cpvc is for DIY. I honestly don't see how you make the peculiar look neat when it comes in a roll and its hard to straighten out under a house. Could you enlighten me


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Here you can run pex underground to the meter, I never do though. I run PVC underground and transition with valves and male adapters. When under a house you are supposed to support the pipe every 32", I usually go closer than this and the warmer weather makes it easy to unroll straight. It does take longer to install and it costs more than CPVC, but I warranty a repipe for 5 years. For whatever reason, CPVC tends to get brittle here within 5 to 10 years. It also tends to blow apart when frozen. We have some high pressure issues in the area and when a regulator goes out and you have CPVC, you can expect to have some issues. The only problem I have ever had with wirsbo/uponor is in the cold weather. I have to heat the brass fittings on tubs/showers, valves, or transitions to copper before I put the pex to them.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*COPPER *

and ... .... <<<< _*DUNBAR PLUMBING :thumbsup:*_

*BRASS*


PVC for DWV


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

We only use copper, unless we are using pex, and that would only be if we didn't need brass or galvanized steel on the job, but when that isn't called for we install wirsbo, unless of course we need cpvc or on occasion pvc, except when it needs to be stainless steel, but other than that...it is always copper. :w00t:


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Ericw said:


> I am a little slow to change but I have worked with some pex and I mostly use cpvc on my water lines. Pex is a little slower for me to run and its been hard for me to make it look good it always seems sloppy looking compared to if I run cpvc. I always use pex on 2nd story houses then change back to cpvc under house. I'm just curious what the rest of you guys use here and if you use pex did you have a hard time making the transition.


The more Pex you run, the faster, better you will get at it. I prefer using 20 ft lengths of ridged Pex mostly, but I keep coils around for long runs without fittings


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Is wirsbo just a different fitting and ring cause only pex we have is with the copper crimp rings just curious if there is easier and better ways I like knowing bout em


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Wirsbo is made by same company as pex. Wirsbo has plastic rings made of same material as the pipe. It is better than pex IMO but also take little longer to put together. Also the 2 materials cost the same, or do here anyway, but wirsbo fittings are pricier. I snap lines in top-outs and tell my helpers to make it so straight people think its ridgid pipe. We have the choice of brass or polymer fittings on both materials, I use the polymer sept for the sweat fittings. Hmm maybe someone will invent a plastic sweat fitting.:blink: I'm finishing up a repipe tomorrow. I'm using wirsbo on it.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Is there any way you could take some pics and the other question I have is how do you keep the fittings together like on pex you crimp I saw a tool for wirsbo but it was like looking at Arabic and trying to figure out what it said it was just a pic online


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Do you bring all your drops to one place and tie to a baffle or do you run a hot trunk and cold trunk then branch off to each drop


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Ericw said:


> Do you bring all your drops to one place and tie to a baffle or do you run a hot trunk and cold trunk then branch off to each drop


Depends on if you pull the lines from under slab through sleeving or if running over head in attic. If through sleeving your manifolding in wall, if over head I manifold as much as I can but can't reasonably avoid fittings in attic all the time. Wood floor with crawl space I tee off main branches. Remember to insulate.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

I only use wirsbo, if they won't let me run copper. Here is a run of it. I don't know, I think for pex, I made it look good.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Copper, even underground upto 1.5" then either Push type PVC, HDPE or Ductile.

Cast iron and PVC for DWV

Transition to pex with Pex Male adapter

Suggest complete replacement of CPVC or Sharkbite or dresser coupling with no warranty on connection.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> Copper, even underground upto 1.5" then either Push type PVC, HDPE or Ductile.
> 
> Cast iron and PVC for DWV
> 
> ...


I also repipe as the best option. If no repipe, I do not warranty the connection to CPVC.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Wow you guys really don't believe in cpvc I have never had a problem with it


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

This is what I just got back from replacing with pex. As you can see it has the signature shredding along with a split le length of the piece. I sharkbited in pex because they did not want the whole length replaced with new washer valves. I'll be back there before this winter is over. As I told them, I will only warranty the 8' of pex. I will not warranty any connection to the CPVC, which is 2 connections in this case.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

plumbpro said:


> This is what I just got back from replacing with pex. As you can see it has the signature shredding along with a split le length of the piece. I sharkbited in pex because they did not want the whole length replaced with new washer valves. I'll be back there before this winter is over. As I told them, I will only warranty the 8' of pex. I will not warranty any connection to the CPVC, which is 2 connections in this case.


The only time I have ever had a problem like that is if the ho leaves the vents open under crawl space or if nobody living there and no heat on


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Around my area:
Water went from copper to cpvc in 1998
DWV cast iron to pvc in 1979
Water around here destroys copper or I would have kept using it. Honestly I wish we would be required to go back to cast iron-lead/oakum joints, lead shower pans, and copper for all water. It would get our trade back. I am so tire of seeing the HH jobs lately.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

We are the same as ESP except I think it was 95 we said good bye to copper. I worked for companies that first went to Poly with copper fittings, then CPVC. Now PEX is starting to rule the roost. We are seeing a ton of CPVC drying and getting very brittle.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

ESPinc said:


> Around my area:
> Water went from copper to cpvc in 1998
> DWV cast iron to pvc in 1979
> Water around here destroys copper or I would have kept using it. Honestly I wish we would be required to go back to cast iron-lead/oakum joints, lead shower pans, and copper for all water. It would get our trade back. I am so tire of seeing the HH jobs lately.


Maybe, but you'll notice when CI was the drain of the trade, houses were generally smaller with less plumbing and plumbing grouped together. CI was typically run underground for some distance in a crawlspace, and eventually rots out. Copper I would love to use exclusively, but in a free market you sell a product or service based on supply and demand (unless you're the government). I like Uponor because it is generally not used by HO or hacks. 
If code enforcement did their jobs, we wouldn't have as much of a problem.

As for eric, this cpvc I replaced today was in a crawl space that was not tight and froze, the jack leg that put it in there on the remodel about a year ago was obviously a moron, and the customer that hired him is uneducated (as far as the law) and got what they deserved.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Proud Plumber said:


> We are the same as ESP except I think it was 95 we said good bye to copper. I worked for companies that first went to Poly with copper fittings, then CPVC. Now PEX is starting to rule the roost. We are seeing a ton of CPVC drying and getting very brittle.


See, that's what I'm saying. CPVC does get brittle after years of use, especially on the hot side. It is a substandard product with a very limited lifespan. Even in an installation done right, it will not outlast a good quality pex, IMO. All it takes is a HO turning off the water at a hot side stop and ... Whooosh. CPVC is very finicky, unlike wirsbo/uponor which is very forgiving. I personally am glad that every hack around uses the cheapest possible products when playing plumber, it should make for a great career for me.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*ericw*

www.youtube.com. search "how to make pex tubing connections". breid..................:rockon:


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

I think I'm gonna start using pex now I have talked to other plumbers and they all say same thing only pex we can get round here is with the copper ring clamps what are your thoughts on that because those brass fittings can freeze and burst if it did get cold right or wrong


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## Sylvain (Jan 22, 2011)

I use copper and pex only


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## ogre plumber (Dec 30, 2010)

My thoughts are k copper from meter to house.I dont like the idea of pex moving around rubbing against rock or sharp objects I think movement and friction could cause leaks in future.I like pex alot inside its easy and versitile and its quiet requires no air chambers I love it. Just make sure to use the little guage to check the crimp every so often.I repiped a whole house one time to find the crimpers where screwed up.Yes a bunch of leaks. Copper is a better option but it cost more and is time consuming.Just think about those hard to get to places over duct work.CPVC I dont like at all.Its what ho's run because it does'nt require anything special to run.A friend of mine just bought a home 5 yrs old and asked if I could fix a few leaks for him.It was a $400,000 home plumbed in cpvc.WTF.This is in Kansas City area so it was in a pricey neighborhood.Oh by the way to fix one of the leaks I used a couple shark bite's and a short piece of pex.LOL.Well,WTF.


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## scottyk52 (Jan 29, 2011)

If its residential we are using wirsbo pex. It does have a tendacy to look sloppy but if you use it enough you will find tricks on making it look neat or less noticable. We are outfitted with the wirsbo tool that hooks to the air compressor. In my opinion this is the quikest way to water pipe a house. If we are doing a repair or finish and don't feel like lugging the compressor in we also have some handtools. We don't stub out in copper. Wirsbo makes chrome shutoffs that use the same expansion ring method. They also make compression stops but i would never recommend using any compression fitting. :no: Some tricks that i have learnt are to use the plastic 2 screw type clips(clipped every other joist) i also try to drill most my lines so they are hidden up in the bays. Especially if the construction is I joist b/c they are so easy to drill. We install it very similar to Lead pics in the above post. We dont do homeruns, run it as if we were running copper. I don't think i could ever go back to copper:thumbup:


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## jim connolly (Oct 29, 2010)

For water lines 1" and under - crimped pex, supported with talon clip every 2-3' so its neat and tidy.
large waterlines - type L copper
DWV - ABS ( PVC is not really a big deal around here)
Heating - TYpe L for manifolds or distribution lines, OXYguard Pex for in floor systems.

Like a lot of you guys, I've only ever run into CPVC in situations where it was put there by a "handyman"....and half the time it looks like ABS glue around the seam of the fittings:001_unsure:


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## jim connolly (Oct 29, 2010)

*Also*

forgot to mention, I use copper stub outs, the ones with the mounting bracket, for wall penetrations/angle stop locations. Pex looks awful coming out of the wall.
I do residential new construction & reno.


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## scottyk52 (Jan 29, 2011)

In the wirsbo handbook they say not to solder within 18" of a pex connection but then they sell those copper stub outs which are only 6-8" long. Am i missing something??


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

scottyk52 said:


> In the wirsbo handbook they say not to solder within 18" of a pex connection but then they sell those copper stub outs which are only 6-8" long. Am i missing something??


You don't solder on the stubouts, atleast not while they are connected to pex.


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

compression angle stops are used on the stub outs


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You know what else looks sloppy?

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f21/not-way-start-year-6682/#post87706



Ericw said:


> I am a little slow to change but I have worked with some pex and I mostly use cpvc on my water lines. *Pex is a little slower for me to run and its been hard for me to make it look good it always seems sloppy looking compared to if I run cpvc.* I always use pex on 2nd story houses then change back to cpvc under house. I'm just curious what the rest of you guys use here and if you use pex did you have a hard time making the transition.


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## scottyk52 (Jan 29, 2011)

Ahh compression stops!! That makes sense now, that didn't even cross my mind.. Thanks


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

I only use copper (and its soldered), cast iron and black pipe I will only use pvc when repairing pvc. We have some of the oldest plumbing in the country and I love it that way. I have switched from lead pans to vinyl

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## jim connolly (Oct 29, 2010)

ranman said:


> compression angle stops are used on the stub outs


This, or solder your valves on before attatching the pex.


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## PlumbPowerHouse (Jan 5, 2010)

We use both CPVC & PEX. It all depends on the customer. I prefer PEX.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

jim connolly said:


> This, or solder your valves on before attatching the pex.


Did a high rise where contractor ordered sweat angle stops but they were not installed until top out time. Uponor copper stub ells behind drywall and I soldered every one with a wet rag and zero leaks. 18" my arse.


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

That makes for a big hole in the wall board. for final top out



jim connolly said:


> This, or solder your valves on before attatching the pex.


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

you kept it cool thats the key.



U.A.til.I.die said:


> Did a high rise where contractor ordered sweat angle stops but they were not installed until top out time. Uponor copper stub ells behind drywall and I soldered every one with a wet rag and zero leaks. 18" my arse.


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

Great question bc I have had the same issues lol. 
I am
In Maryland - all new construction here is and has Been cpvc. Pex in new residential is almost Un heard of unless the builder requests it. Its legal- just not the norm. 
Remodels/ service - I go with what my customers budget allows and explain the differences. 
I love to run copper but I can't lie to a customer when they ask my opinion on cpvc- I have installed it for years in homes and never had an issue. 
The only pex I have used is the wisboro- I am
Pretty sure I have a hand operated kit that my boss gave me when they closed up shop bc it had been in my van forever- bc we tried it on one job and didn't care for it. 

Love the idea of pex - but my lack of knowledge and exp with it keeps me from using. Anyone want a green pex helper that will rough your waste and vent while you get lunch  lol


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I would only recommend cpvc if the house was on well water & the water had a negative ph. Then it would have to be Flowguard.
I use mostly pex, due to the price of copper anymore. I've always used the copper stub outs, soldered to the plated holdrite bars, & on trim I sweat on a R-19. Never had any problems. Been using this set up since the mid 90's.


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## A-TEAM (Feb 6, 2011)

Chattanooga TN. Cpvc seems to get brittle over time especially on hot lines. Shark Bite is the way to go for the transition if you must. Ever hear of a tube tallon, just like pex quick and cheap. secure them just behind the crimp ring befor the fitting. and wherever else nessesary,( PEX is the bomb)


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

A-Team.....

Check this out>> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

scottyk52 said:


> In the wirsbo handbook they say not to solder within 18" of a pex connection but then they sell those copper stub outs which are only 6-8" long. Am i missing something??


Well if you need to there is always LA-CO BLOC-IT HEAT ABSORBING PASTE...

http://www.laco.com/prod/14/bloc-it-heat-absorbing-paste.aspx

It works well at protecting things from heat...

I used it when I was TIG Welding some aluminum parts that had plastic parts bonded to the aluminum a short distance from where I needed to weld....

It worked! :thumbup:


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

The supply houses around here don't sell wirsbo products. We only have crimp ring. Can any pex pipe be used with wirsbo? I noticed a picture showing wirsbo pex pipe. I think they only sell zurn pex pipe around here. Anybody use wirsbo in Florida?


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

its kinda of a catch you need both for service wirsbo and some sort of crimp. you cant expand non wisbo pipe. then the next choice is copper ring or ss crimp?


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

You can expand other types of pex .. they are lettered ( A B C ) I am not positive but I believe any type A or B can be expanded . Type C may only be crimped , If you are unsure of the letter designation just ask you supplier..


But you can crimp any kind of pex .. so really you only need a set of crimpers and some rings for service.

Lifer...


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