# Toto 4" Red flapper does not stay open long enough



## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

My friend has a toilet that continues to get clogged. I have run an auger through the toilet into the closet bend and cleared the problem twice now. I am thinking that the quick flush caused by the flapper closing too soon and not allowing enough water to fill the bowl is causing this problem. When I hold down the flush handle for a couple of seconds it fills back up otherwise only partial bowl filling and hence the problem. Does Toto make a flapper that will float just a couple of seconds that would prevent this from happening? Any suggestions would be helpful. TIA for your help folks.


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

Get an adjustable korky stopper. Red in color.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm suspecting that one of the wax rings with a black plastic funnels was used on this installation...

Replace it with a plain wax ring without the funnel, the large outlet will cause the funnel to pinch closed on many of todays high performance toilets...

Measure the distance that water drops in the tank and compute the water usage...

The required water goes from the tank to the bowl very quickly so the flapper is open a very short while...


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

Redwood said:


> I'm suspecting that one of the wax rings with a black plastic funnels was used on this installation... Replace it with a plain wax ring without the funnel, the large outlet will cause the funnel to pinch closed on many of todays high performance toilets... Measure the distance that water drops in the tank and compute the water usage... The required water goes from the tank to the bowl very quickly so the flapper is open a very short while...


Redwood, I get the horn can make a difference when setting some toilets. But when toilets have a 2" thru way why do you feel it has an effect on flushing ability? wouldnt the horn just be an extension of the 2" thru way?


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

He's saying the force of the flush pinches the plastics shut. Throttling down the flow.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

No, There is interference in the fit between the larger horn and some of the smaller closet flanges which pinches the horn closed causing clogging...

In particular the 4 X 3's and some repair flanges...


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

If the tank has foam inside to prevent condensation then there is a chance the tank fills to quickly before the bowel gets filled properly. Or maybe Toto doesn't have a fill tube. I know it happen to me one time on a high end toilet. I'm sure it was Toto.


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

plungerboy said:


> Get an adjustable korky stopper. Red in color.


Thanks for the suggestion, I see Home Depot has them. Take care. srloren


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

Redwood said:


> I'm suspecting that one of the wax rings with a black plastic funnels was used on this installation...
> 
> Replace it with a plain wax ring without the funnel, the large outlet will cause the funnel to pinch closed on many of todays high performance toilets...
> 
> ...


I'll pull it to make sure that only wax rings were used. Good suggestion.


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

plungerboy said:


> Redwood, I get the horn can make a difference when setting some toilets. But when toilets have a 2" thru way why do you feel it has an effect on flushing ability? wouldnt the horn just be an extension of the 2" thru way?


I can see where a jagged edged closet bend that was leaded in and by breaking off the excess with your ball pin hammer, (I have seen this before) could cause the funnel to squeeze inward, but I don't quite understand how it would be sqeezed in to create a less than 3" funnel opening otherwise. Please help me to understand this.


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

Redwood said:


> No, There is interference in the fit between the larger horn and some of the smaller closet flanges which pinches the horn closed causing clogging...
> 
> In particular the 4 X 3's and some repair flanges...


There's the explanation I needed..


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## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

Also check the water level in the tank, alot of calls i get for a poor flush is the water level being to low.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Install a fishing boober to the flush valve and be a hero..


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

I put an adjustable float above the flapper.


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

AssTyme said:


> I put an adjustable float above the flapper.


Thanks for the info guys... makes sense so will verify each suggestion.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Check to see if another person has not installed the wrong fillvalve . You must have a quick fill fast flow fill valve. I forget the correct fluidmaster number at this time. It sounds as if there is not enough water. Toto used to have a blue flapper that stays open longer no smoking mirrors to add to the flapper.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I was going to mention that Richard....

But when the thread went to Korky Adjustable Flappers and fishing bobbers I headed of to CraigsList....:laughing:


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## ClassicPlumbing (Aug 5, 2014)

Which model of Toto toilet is it?


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

ClassicPlumbing said:


> Which model of Toto toilet is it?


They were in the 1 piece Toto's


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

plungerboy said:


> Redwood, I get the horn can make a difference when setting some toilets. But when toilets have a 2" thru way why do you feel it has an effect on flushing ability? wouldnt the horn just be an extension of the 2" thru way?


I think the answer to your question is that the newer toilets that have a 4" hole at the Douglas Valve drop more water so any restriction less than 4" would cause friction loss and even a slow down in water movement. Maybe I am wrong but I think that is what you are looking for.


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

ClassicPlumbing said:


> Which model of Toto toilet is it?


It is a 2 piece but I don't have a model number right now. Thanks


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Check to see if another person has not installed the wrong fillvalve . You must have a quick fill fast flow fill valve. I forget the correct fluidmaster number at this time. It sounds as if there is not enough water. Toto used to have a blue flapper that stays open longer no smoking mirrors to add to the flapper.


Thanks I will double check to see if it is the correct fill valve.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

srloren said:


> I think the answer to your question is that the newer toilets that have a 4" hole at the Douglas Valve drop more water so any restriction less than 4" would cause friction loss and even a slow down in water movement. Maybe I am wrong but I think that is what you are looking for.


No! The larger outlet horn on the toilet pinches the plastic funnel into an oval shape that measures about 1" wide when it impinges on some of the smaller closet flanges.

This misshaped funnel then turns a great toilet into a clogging POS....


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

Redwood said:


> No! The larger outlet horn on the toilet pinches the plastic funnel into an oval shape that measures about 1" wide when it impinges on some of the smaller closet flanges.
> 
> This misshaped funnel then turns a great toilet into a clogging POS....


I totally understand and can see that happening. Thanks for the clarification. Srloren


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

srloren said:


> I totally understand and can see that happening. Thanks for the clarification. Srloren


Then use a fishivg boober on the flush valve flipper!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> Then use a fishivg boober on the flush valve flipper!


Be a hero and install a Moentrol Fill Valve...:laughing:


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## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

Redwood said:


> No, There is interference in the fit between the larger horn and some of the smaller closet flanges which pinches the horn closed causing clogging...
> 
> In particular the 4 X 3's and some repair flanges...


So the lesson learned here is to have a selection of wax rings and know the requirement of your low flush toilet in order to know if you need a plastic or rubber horn built in to the wax ring.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

srloren said:


> So the lesson learned here is to have a selection of wax rings and know the requirement of your low flush toilet in order to know if you need a plastic or rubber horn built in to the wax ring.


Why don't you use the rubber gasket and be a hero?


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## thumper (Aug 19, 2011)

Toto's blue flapper stays open longer than the red one. I just carry the blue flapper and install it requardless.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

What's wrong with using the fishing boober???


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