# winterizing



## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

allright, this one is for the northern boys and girls. winter has finall reared its ugly head and ive got alot of winterizing calls. just wanted to know what practices are being applied for winterizing vacant properties. and what type of warrenties are being offered.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

mjcoleman said:


> allright, this one is for the northern boys and girls. winter has finall reared its ugly head and ive got alot of winterizing calls. just wanted to know what practices are being applied for winterizing vacant properties. and what type of warrenties are being offered.


Here in NY , we blow the house out,



Shut off water main,
open lowest point
Let water gravity drain for a few
hook compressor to somewhere ( we sweat in a tee with plug so we can adpt to it )
Blow out all water
Lock main with business card and sticker that house is winterized and if you need water call ( YOUR PHONE # )
If you do it correct , you wont need a warranty


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Forgive the stupid floridian, but what about your traps? Will they freeze split?


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## muck (Oct 10, 2008)

gluconol?


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Protech said:


> Forgive the stupid floridian, but what about your traps? Will they freeze split?



Oh yea sorry that was for domestic water 

We off course empty , traps , tanks bowls and then use non toxic anti freeze:thumbsup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Problem is most outfits only use a small compressor.
I make a lot of money when these buildings get opened back up!
If you want to use compressed air to blow out the water you may just want to rent a rig like this for blowing out the lines or, you're not doing jack!










Even then there is a good chance there may be some water left in the pipes.
My best payday for opening up a winterized house to date was $3500...
Somebody didn't do a very good job!


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

******* said:


> Here in NY , we blow the house out,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same here, plus anti-freeze in the traps. I have done 8 of them so far this season...all bank foreclosures. I guess there is a small upside to the housing crisis.


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## Hyper Piper (Nov 29, 2008)

You can use a small compressor if you use the WH for a storage tank to build air pressure. I've drained many cottages this way and have NEVER had problems. Make sure you think about what you are doing, and use common sense.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Problem is a lot of the seasonal cottages are built to drain down.
I wouldn't share you confidence in a typical home.
You need to push some serious air to blow out the lines in a typical house.
Even then It requires a bit of dumb luck to be successful.:yes:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Hyper Piper said:


> You can use a small compressor if you use the WH for a storage tank to build air pressure. I've drained many cottages this way and have NEVER had problems. Make sure you think about what you are doing, and use common sense.


Exactly. I have my own METHOD I use with my small compressor and it has never let me down. Of course if I was winterizing a 15 bathroom house, I would need a bigger compressor.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

All I know is that everytime I have been called to start up a "winterized" house I have made a ton of money fixing all the burst pipes.

I just quote an hourly rate and go from there. Truth be told I have never had less than 3 leaks on a start up.

With the best one being a boiler installation and a bunch of leaks.
I doubt they did anything more than pour antifreeze in the traps.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

For me, winterizing is different on every job. Some are really easy - no surprises, a basement, easy draining. Others are under a slab and the pipes just don't seem to go where they're supposed to, such as soft water to hydrants, etc. I always tell the customer that I will do the best job that I can, but that there are no guarantees since the builder didn't build it to be drained.

In all the years of winterizing, I only know of one I've had to go back and do a repair on.

In addition to the compressor and judicial choice of where to hook it, where to drain, and RV antfreeze in all the traps, I make sure to put stickers everywhere saying the house is winterized and to not use the plumbing or attempt to energize the water heater until service has been restored.

And I pay attention to things like icemaker lines and softeners. Icemaker solenoids can freeze. There isn't anything much harder on a house than for it to be abandoned through the winter.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Redwood said:


> All I know is that everytime I have been called to start up a "winterized" house I have made a ton of money fixing all the burst pipes.
> 
> I just quote an hourly rate and go from there. Truth be told I have never had less than 3 leaks on a start up.
> 
> ...


I have been winterizing for years now and the only leaks I ever had was when I forgot to blow out a certain line, or didn't do a thorough job on a really large system.
Most guys have no idea how to blow out lines properly. I know what you mean about seeing tons of leaks on dewinterizes.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

service guy said:


> I have been winterizing for years now and the only leaks I ever had was when I forgot to blow out a certain line, or didn't do a thorough job on a really large system.
> Most guys have no idea how to blow out lines properly. I know what you mean about seeing tons of leaks on dewinterizes.


Yea, I also have a swimming pool service company so , blowing out lines is blowing out lines to me


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Water freezing in a pipe can generate an expansion force of about 40,000 PSI.

Any water left at a low point will split what it is contained in.
Including a boiler! It takes a good volume of air to move water completely out of a u-shaped pipe.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Including a boiler! It takes a good volume of air to move water completely out of a u-shaped pipe.


Big compressor with lots of cfm baby


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

*Zackly!:thumbup:*

When you see the sprinkler guys doing their winterizations you see them pulling a trailer rig around behind them... They Know!


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Redwood said:


> *Zackly!:thumbup:*
> 
> When you see the sprinkler guys doing their winterizations you see them pulling a trailer rig around behind them... They Know!


How about when you see the sprinkler guys with the pancake ....hahahahahahahahaha ....you know that house is gunna need repairs


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

******* said:


> How about when you see the sprinkler guys with the pancake ....hahahahahahahahaha ....you know that house is gunna need repairs


Might as well puff your cheeks into a garden hose!:laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Pancake??


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Messed up once ,,,, Forgot a toilet . Man , did it SPLIT !!! OOPS !!

Cal


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

ohhhh, you mean a pancake compressor.


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## mandoman (Dec 12, 2008)

I have been winterizing cottages for approx. 40 years. I have learned the hard way years ago that air pressure does not always do the job. I have put together a tank and pump, and pump non-toxic antifreeze into the system. Start with all faucets closed, open one faucet at a time until the propylene runs out. Shut that faucet off and go to the next. You will have to put a bypass on the water heater. Most cottage owners have no problem paying the cost of doing this. Especially when you consider the cost of repair freeze ups.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

mandoman said:


> I have been winterizing cottages for approx. 40 years. I have learned the hard way years ago that air pressure does not always do the job. I have put together a tank and pump, and pump non-toxic antifreeze into the system. Start with all faucets closed, open one faucet at a time until the propylene runs out. Shut that faucet off and go to the next. You will have to put a bypass on the water heater. Most cottage owners have no problem paying the cost of doing this. Especially when you consider the cost of repair freeze ups.



That is also a good way if you have a customer that is willing to pay


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Ok, I'm from the deep south and don't know jack about winterizing houses. So don't laugh too hard if this is a stupid idea but wouldn't water respond better to vacuum rather than high pressure? 

If water is held in a low spot, blown air will just pass over it if it can. Air just like water will follow the path of least resistance. If all the air is vacuumed out of a sealed system the water will be forced to come too when the vacuum becomes low enough.

Am I wrong?


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> Ok, I'm from the deep south and don't know jack about winterizing houses. So don't laugh too hard if this is a stupid idea but wouldn't water respond better to vacuum rather than high pressure?
> 
> Am I wrong?


You could use a vacuum , but you would need a wet dry , then a storage tank for the water you pull out......... , to much **** basically

With a compressor its BLOW & GO............

We also could all stop home and cook hamburgers instead of going to Mcdonald's and such as well.


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

mandoman said:


> I have been winterizing cottages for approx. 40 years. I have learned the hard way years ago that air pressure does not always do the job. I have put together a tank and pump, and pump non-toxic antifreeze into the system. Start with all faucets closed, open one faucet at a time until the propylene runs out. Shut that faucet off and go to the next. You will have to put a bypass on the water heater. Most cottage owners have no problem paying the cost of doing this. Especially when you consider the cost of repair freeze ups.


 well im in the same climate your in and thats the way i do it, it displaces the water and wont leave pockets of water. ive been doing it that way for 7 years and no leaks. i also kill the curb stop, remove the meter and pump out the main.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

mjcoleman said:


> i also kill the curb stop, remove the meter and pump out the main.


Now that's a true professional 

Nice job man, that's the way to do it :thumbup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Smells, your vacuum idea will work. Unfortunately it's not very practical because you would need one hell of a vacuum pump. When pulling a vapor compression air conditioner down it can take an hour just to get a thimbles’ worth of water out of that system. You’re talking about trying to pull out a few gallons. You would need a diesel powered vacuum pump or a whole lotta time to let it pump down. That's assuming all the valves close. If there is the slightest leak anywhere you can forget it!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I think he was referring to a vacuum pulling CFM to remove the water, not pulling a vacuum on the system to remove the moisture.

Pressure at high volume does the trick.


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## Bulldog Plumbing (Nov 9, 2008)

mjcoleman said:


> i also kill the curb stop, remove the meter and pump out the main.


 
Why is this necessary? Is it because of the water inside the house before the main shutoff?


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

JoeTepleyP&H said:


> Why is this necessary? Is it because of the water inside the house before the main shutoff?


 yeah, alot of the houses here have the old now illegal stop and waste curb stops and they will bleed back on thier own. but the newer legal ones will hold the water in that line and there is the potential for freeze and split. when i start a system up for spring usually im pretty busy anyway. so if i dont have any leaks to fix thats one or two more things i can get done in a day.


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## Buddy (Oct 25, 2009)

Does any water sit in the pump in the dishwasher and what if the home has a tankless if i wanted to use w\h as a storage tank for the air as suggested ?


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I turn the dishwasher on until air comes through. I also put antibfeeze in the d.w. and turn to drain ( same with washing machine).

I have always have used a small compressor, and expected the w.h. to act as a tank, but with handymen about it was hard to be competetive. This i have saved some water heaters from the hurricane that got flooded, but don't leak. I will be rolling with my trailer, at least to 50 gal. w.h. tied into a comp. with a 20 gal. tank or so and my generator to keep it pumping from job to job. I plan to have 200' of air hose.


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## Mxz--700 (Jul 8, 2011)

I always blow out then blow antifreeze through the hot and cold after isolating the water heater , remove excess water from toilets ,antifreeze in tank and bowl and then antifreeze all traps,solenoids, Wash machine pump dish pump Ect..... Never had probs this way and have done hundreds if not more. Jim


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

I blow out then pump antifreeze as well.. With toilets I also like to unhook the flapper from in the tank and prop it up so it doesn't dry out and stick to where it seals.. Also pop the angle valves apart on toilet supplies as toilets are anti-siphon.. Take apart kitchen sink handhelds as they'll trap water too. Shower valves that are anti-scald (most are) should have their stems/cartridges pulled.. Only way to blow them out is with equal pressure on the hot and the cold sides at the same time. Knowing every job is different and taking the time to think about what your trying to accomplish goes along ways.


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## Mxz--700 (Jul 8, 2011)

CTs2p2 said:


> I blow out then pump antifreeze as well.. With toilets I also like to unhook the flapper from in the tank and prop it up so it doesn't dry out and stick to where it seals.. Also pop the angle valves apart on toilet supplies as toilets are anti-siphon.. Take apart kitchen sink handhelds as they'll trap water too. Shower valves that are anti-scald (most are) should have their stems/cartridges pulled.. Only way to blow them out is with equal pressure on the hot and the cold sides at the same time. Knowing every job is different and taking the time to think about what your trying to accomplish goes along ways.


Lots of times with the press bal types I have a siamese hose connector and try to use the laundry valves and pressurize both to get the piston to move. Works great,otherwise it means taking em apart,which we know on some Moniters can really suck if u don't have to. Also I blow out and blow some antifreeze through the handheld. Give it a try. Jim


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