# First week of new residential.



## Oorgnid (Apr 5, 2016)

So, as you guys may know I left service to go with a company that does new homes. Its been pretty well so far....however my biggest complaint so far has to be their view of silicone vs putty. They use absolutely no putty on pop up assemblies, garbage disposals, basket strainers, tub/shower drains. They told me to basically pitch my putty into the garbage because thats what it is. 

Is this the norm? First basket strainer I did with silicone it leaked..... I never had that problem with putty. I've done two double vanities, 2 shower drains, tub drain, garbage disposal and another basket strainer this past week. I can't help but feel on edge because I feel like it doesn't make a solid seal and all of these are going to leak. 

Just figured I'd see what you guys use.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

My first 1.5 years I was taught to use putty and then about 3 months ago I got a new job where they use silicone just like your place. At first I was not a fan because I felt it might not be as good as putty and also will be harder for a service plumber to remove when servicing or replacing it. I'm now comfortable with using silicone but still would prefer putty but the boss decides since he signs the paycheck. You will get used to it.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

I think there's a thread on here putty vs. silicone and it was fairly evenly split. I was taught putty and never had a problem, so I haven't tried silicone.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Putty. Even on lead joints. I just stuff it with putty.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Oorgnid said:


> So, as you guys may know I left service to go with a company that does new homes. Its been pretty well so far....however my biggest complaint so far has to be their view of silicone vs putty. They use absolutely no putty on pop up assemblies, garbage disposals, basket strainers, tub/shower drains. They told me to basically pitch my putty into the garbage because thats what it is.
> 
> Is this the norm? First basket strainer I did with silicone it leaked..... I never had that problem with putty. I've done two double vanities, 2 shower drains, tub drain, garbage disposal and another basket strainer this past week. I can't help but feel on edge because I feel like it doesn't make a solid seal and all of these are going to leak.
> 
> Just figured I'd see what you guys use.


Just pack it in with a folding ruler and be a hero


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I haven't used/purchased putty in 10 years, no use for it


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

silicone all the way, havent used putty in 25+ years..


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## Eddy k (Jan 30, 2015)

Have always used putty until I did three ground up Freddy's custard restaurants here in town and there is a station where they let hot water run constantly for there custard machines, the hot water heated up the putty and caused leak at basket strainer in all restaurants, have not been back since I replaced with high temp silicone.


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## Qplumb (Dec 19, 2015)

Silicone always, always fixing leaks on basket strainers and shower drains due to putty. I've been using silicone for 18 years never had a problem. The only thing I ever used putty for was rolling into little balls and throwing out the window while driving. It cuts through wind resistance even at 70mph with pin point accuracy. Of course I don't do that anymore, that was the young and stupid days. It was fun though throwing balls of putty through someone's window at highway speed and landing them on the dash without them knowing a thing. I wonder what they thought when they finally discovered all those balls of putty?


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

The other reason to ditch the putty now, are all the plastic strainers and parts that use to be made of real metal, the plastic just bends and doesnt compress the putty, so you will end up cracking half of what you are putting together..there is a cleaner called..afta cleaning fluid.. https://www.amazon.com/Upholstery-A...465822762&sr=8-3&keywords=afta+cleaning+fluid
that works great to clean up wet silicone, that wont make a holly mess if you were off a little with the silicone..just put some on a cotton cloth or towel and it dissolves the silicone where you didnt want it togo..


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> The other reason to ditch the putty now, are all the plastic strainers and parts that use to be made of real metal, the plastic just bends and doesnt compress the putty, so you will end up cracking half of what you are putting together..there is a cleaner called..afta cleaning fluid.. https://www.amazon.com/Upholstery-A...465822762&sr=8-3&keywords=afta+cleaning+fluid
> that works great to clean up wet silicone, that wont make a holly mess if you were off a little with the silicone..just put some on a cotton cloth or towel and it dissolves the silicone where you didnt want it togo..



Rubbing alcohol works well


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

Been using putty for 20 years. Never had a reason to switch. In winter time I would have to take the silicone out of the truck every night. It doesn't like the freezing Temps and hardens. Putty doesn't care about the weather.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

paultheplumber1 said:


> Been using putty for 20 years. Never had a reason to switch. In winter time I would have to take the silicone out of the truck every night. It doesn't like the freezing Temps and hardens. Putty doesn't care about the weather.




I too use putty on all basket strainers/tub drains. I use silicon on rubber shower pan liner drain


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## PaulCrawford (Jul 6, 2016)

Putty is pliable and easy to roll. I will personally prefer putty over silicon.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

PaulCrawford said:


> Putty is pliable and easy to roll. I will personally prefer putty over silicon.


Here we go.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PaulCrawford said:


> Putty is pliable and easy to roll. I will personally prefer putty over silicon.


Do the introduction or we'll silicone you


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I prefer plumber's putty on basket strainers. 

Silicone is messy to clean up since it's not water soluble.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

paultheplumber1 said:


> Been using putty for 20 years. Never had a reason to switch. In winter time I would have to take the silicone out of the truck every night. It doesn't like the freezing Temps and hardens. Putty doesn't care about the weather.


I never took silicone out of the truck and we get some colder winters and it doesnt harden in the cold, if you have an open tube that isnt sealed correctly it will cure from air exposure...once you go silicone you wont go back...:laughing:
and with all the plastic drain components, they dont have the umf to squeeze the putty and end up cracking, unlike the old brass components..I have fixed way too many leaks( not my work) because putty dries up and crumbles..........silicone is forever...cleanup with the proper cleaner is a non issue and once you use silicone and learn the learning curve on using it...mess is very minimal if at all...


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

This is a timeless debate.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I never took silicone out of the truck and we get some colder winters and it doesnt harden in the cold, if you have an open tube that isnt sealed correctly it will cure from air exposure...once you go silicone you wont go back...:laughing:
> and with all the plastic drain components, they dont have the umf to squeeze the putty and end up cracking, unlike the old brass components..I have fixed way too many leaks( not my work) because putty dries up and crumbles..........silicone is forever...cleanup with the proper cleaner is a non issue and once you use silicone and learn the learning curve on using it...mess is very minimal if at all...



I just had an insurance claim on me due to some cheap assed plastic pop up assembly that was over tightened and eventually cracked and warped some old ladies vanity.......took it over 8 months for it to finally snap and it was all due to the putty .... I keep the clear silicone in my truck and use it both on sinks and basket strainers... It never comes off a kitchen sink once it sets up....


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> I just had an insurance claim on me due to some cheap assed plastic pop up assembly that was over tightened and eventually cracked and warped some old ladies vanity.......took it over 8 months for it to finally snap and it was all due to the putty .... I keep the clear silicone in my truck and use it both on sinks and basket strainers... It never comes off a kitchen sink once it sets up....


There are gaskets made for sink and lavy drains. I believe Sioux Chief has them.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> I just had an insurance claim on me due to some cheap assed plastic pop up assembly that was over tightened and eventually cracked and warped some old ladies vanity.......took it over 8 months for it to finally snap and it was all due to the putty .... I keep the clear silicone in my truck and use it both on sinks and basket strainers... It never comes off a kitchen sink once it sets up....


Silicone is required in my company. Most specks in clinics and hospitals require silicone for health reasons.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Plumbus said:


> There are gaskets made for sink and lavy drains. I believe Sioux Chief has them.


the gaskets come with the sink drain...why buy more? times are changing and putty is going the way lead is..GONE...every new fixture comes from the manufacture put together with silicone...if putty was so great they would be using that,,,all the plastic components dont work with putty, neither do the brass....new and improved...some are against change, but it will cost you in the long run...thats like saying you rather lead and caulk cast iron than using tight seals....


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> the gaskets come with the sink drain...why buy more? times are changing and putty is going the way lead is..GONE...every new fixture comes from the manufacture put together with silicone...if putty was so great they would be using that,,,all the plastic components dont work with putty, neither do the brass....new and improved...some are against change, but it will cost you in the long run...thats like saying you rather lead and caulk cast iron than using tight seals....


Still use lead almost daily, less now that I'm in the burbs, but it def. ain't gone.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

wyrickmech said:


> Master Mark said:
> 
> 
> > I just had an insurance claim on me due to some cheap assed plastic pop up assembly that was over tightened and eventually cracked and warped some old ladies vanity.......took it over 8 months for it to finally snap and it was all due to the putty .... I keep the clear silicone in my truck and use it both on sinks and basket strainers... It never comes off a kitchen sink once it sets up....
> ...


Our company did a massive veterans hospital. One of the plumbers told me they did not use any putty or silicone on there grid drains. No leaks. This was a first for me. Anybody else do this?


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

89plumbum said:


> Our company did a massive veterans hospital. One of the plumbers told me they did not use any putty or silicone on there grid drains. No leaks. This was a first for me. Anybody else do this?


No reason to use either putty or silicone under grid strainer because no seal is needed. The reason for using it on a pop up is to keep water in the sink when the plunger is down.

I've seen more harm done by using putty under grid strainers because people will use too much of it and block the overflow of the sink and then it slow drains because of vapor lock.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Just did a relocated 1890 12" tiny sink.. silcock the **** out of it

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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Flyout95 said:


> Still use lead almost daily, less now that I'm in the burbs, but it def. ain't gone.


agreed, I still pour some lead joints..you ever pour a lead joint around pvc?..to transition from cast iron to pvc and not waste or use a clamp if you have a good hub to use..you just have to wait or cool down the pvc with water before the final caulking..works great..you can either buy pvc caulking ferrels or make your own..


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## Tony b (Aug 31, 2016)

I've used putty for years but now I'm all silicone. Hot water and putty don't mix. I did some service work for coffee shops at gas stations. Every basket strainer leaks with putty due ton the heat.


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## MDservices (May 9, 2016)

I'll share my 2 cents on the matter:

Plumbers putty all the way and here's why...

Plumbers putty is what you should use for basket strainers, tub drains etc. You have to keep in mind that plumbers putty is not the main thing stopping the water!!!! 

The basket strainer? Yeah, there's a black gasket whose purpose is to stop leaks! When you install a bathtub overflow, there's a gasket there too. Plumbers putty is what you put so that 1: it helps stop water infiltrating for pop-ups etc but mainly 2: it allows you to tighten the nut to compress the GASKET properly without scratching the tub/sink as well as keeping it in place. The great thing about plumbers putty is if you need to change something in the future, NO PROBLEM! No silicon to scrape away or anything.

In my 9 years, I've never had a single leak for a tub overflow, basket strainer, lavatory sink etc etc. Not ONE leak, ever. Period.

Here's why you don't use silicon. Using a proper silicon that would usually means that changing that piece in the future is not a fun or easy task and often impossible! There are many silicons out there, if you don't have the right one, you can get mold or discolouring etc. And here's the main reason you don't use silicon: If you tighten the piece you're installing properly, all that silicon squishes out and does nothing! So many products eat away at the silicon.. Silicon can work, but that's not the intended purpose of it. I've always viewed silicon as a plumbers ducktape.. yeah, it might work, but there's a proper product for that! 

Plumbers putty all the way! Keep silicon for finishing, tub/tile joints, or to glue something in place.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

MDservices said:


> I'll share my 2 cents on the matter:
> 
> Plumbers putty all the way and here's why...
> 
> ...


I totally disagree, 

Quality Tub/shower manufacturers state that 100%silcone must be used for drain connection. You can't argue this it's a fact. Have you not seen this before in your 9 years of practice?

Obviously you have never worked in a commercial kitchen, the hot water/chemicals break down putty quickly. 

Putty also molds, have you not noticed that black stuff under old basket strainers when your repairing a leaky sink?

You stated:
- "So many products eat away at the silicon". Really, enlighten us with these products. 

-"In my 9 years, I've never had a single leak for a tub overflow, basket strainer, lavatory sink etc etc. Not ONE leak, ever. Period" How many have you installed? I highly doubt that or they didn't call you back to repair.





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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

MDservices said:


> I'll share my 2 cents on the matter:
> 
> Plumbers putty all the way and here's why...
> 
> ...


Sorry bud, but your wrong on most accounts..putty cracks more plastic drain pieces than you can keep track of, when brass was used, different story, but most manufactures spec silicone to install, show me 1 whirlpool tub that has any of the jets or fittings installed with putty compared to silicone...I will agree you must use 100% silicone caulking...as far as removal, I dont worry what has to be done 10 or 20 years down the road, and removing silicone is not that hard, I can tell you any sinks or drains I took apart that used putty, it was a black gooey mess with dried out chunks of crap...that stopped sealing anything along time ago...


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## MDservices (May 9, 2016)

I've mainly worked in commercial installations. So that being said I've installed probably well over a thousand fixtures (who counts?) that required plumbers putty and yes, let me state this again, I've never had one that leaked. Never.

Most installation instructions, of which I read before every install, even if it's a model I've done a thousand times. I've never read an installation guide from the fixtures I've installed that specified silicone use only. Not for any tub overflow or basket strainer I've ever installed. In fact, all manuals that come with tubs and sinks etc do not specifically state an exact product to use because there can be legal hindrances in some cases. 

So again, here is what most installation instructions say: "use plumbers glue" or they state "putty" and on the occasion they will state "plumbers putty". On diagrams, you'll often see a cut-out of the overflow assembly and it'll show "silicone" or "putty" marked on it. I've never seen a manual that said "use silicone only". I save all my installation instructions from most fixtures and keep them in my truck, I'm quite meticulous about this. To be fair, I've never installed a whirlpool brand tub. I've installed many tubs that have jets and motors etc and can't recall any specifying to use silicone only. It's possible I've used silicone when setting up a tub with jets etc, but to my recollection they provide you with gaskets etc.

The only time I'll use silicone when installing something is if there's a specific type of porous countertop and the counter-top advises against plumbers putty as it can stain the counter-top. 

And you've never seen silicone turn yellow? You've never seen it become brittle because of cleaning products used? Really?

I'm not talking about fixtures that have pre assembled parts that the manufacturer used silicone, I'm talking about basic basket strainers, bathtub overflows, lavatory pop-ups etc. Haven't come across any installation instructions that require silicone only. 

FYI: Before opening my company I spent most of my career doing high-end homes, commercial renovation and a WHOLE LOT of service in both for 2 companies. If there was a call back, it was on my time, not the company's and I'm thankful that I only ever had 3 call backs, all unrelated to plumber putty/silicone issues! I specifically was the guy who took care of many commercial kitchens and restaurants... so as to the question of plumbers putty cracking plastic or something you mentioned, I've never seen it and much of the piping and drainage in kitchens was kept copper and brass because of the high temperatures.

We'll have to agree to disagree.


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## MDservices (May 9, 2016)

Of course I've argued with plumbers on a whole host of subjects like plumbers who will literally teflon anything that has threads to it! Flared fitting? TEFLONED! Compression valve? TEFLONED! Hose connection? TEFLONED! ... needless to say, I'm against putting teflon on components that do not REQUIRE teflon as the 'sealant'


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

agreed, we can agree to disagree...I believe whatever works for the person installing whatever they are installing can use what they want for whatever they are installing..I use silicone and have for over 25 years of being on my own with no issues, when I started and worked for someone I used what they said to use, and it was plumbers putty and it had its downfalls, thats why I switched to silicone..

so my question to you is, that wouldnt the factory use what will last and give less issues down the road?? so all they use on any factory installed or assembled tubs or fixtures is silicone, not plumbers putty, so that should tell you something...im not going to argue on what works for you, just going with what the industry across the board is using..I dont think I have ever seen anything factory put together with plumbers putty..


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## MDservices (May 9, 2016)

As previously stated, someone mentioned "why would I care how hard it is to un-install something 10-20 years" or something like that. Unless it's a crappy product that will live its small life and then who cares but when you work for restaurants and high-end homes, people will either want something altered, changed place, moved or something changed and if there's the PROPER silicone used, there's a good chance you'll nick or ruin the tub/sink. SILICON is good for what is does except idiots who SILICON a repair lead! That's a no-no! 

But back to my point. Plumbers putty allows me to change out a bathtub overflow and I've done so many, especially the old tubs where the finishing rusted before the plumbers putty ever allowed for a leak. Although for tubs you have to keep in mind that the main thing stopping a leak is the black gasket on the other side! Try just SILICON or Putty with a metal washer instead of black gasket, it won't stop the water no matter the amount of SILICON or Putty. 

I spent a solid 3 months going around to a bunch of restaurant chains changing and relocating new Hobart dishwashers and even with the extreme temperatures, never had a leak from plumbers Putty. I must have done at least 60. In fact, when I showed up to the existing installations, sometimes everything was leaking (plastic pipes used, bad products etc) except the part that had plumbers Putty. In many cases, even at the residential level, a basket strainer breaks down and if you have to change it but the proper SILICON is used, that's a real pain to remove and not damage the sink. How many of us have changed an old tub overflow and had to do it the old SAWZALL + hammer + screwdriver to remove it! 

So in closing: never had a problem with plumbers Putty and it's easy to service in the future. For 4.5 years I was also associated with a large insurance company and was the go to guy on claims of water damage. All that to say that never came across a case involving Putty as an issue and there were many many cases from companies all over the city (Montréal, Canada) for many different products. Putty? Never one. 

So agreed: we disagree


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

So what's the black stuff in every drain connection where Putty is used?

Putty is a thing of the past

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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

It's moldy nastness!

and you never gave a response and specifically listed any products that break down silicone because you cant.

Silicone is a superior product and that's a fact you can agree or disagree but facts are facts

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## MDservices (May 9, 2016)

Sorry, when I mentioned "break down" I meant discolour and stain. Do I really need to list all of the products that discolour and stain silicone? Also, there are quite a few silicones that have been known to turn moldy. Obviously you have to choose the right silicone.

Plumbers putty does not become moldy.. that's a fact as well. That black stuff you see is a combination of soaps, toothpaste, hair, hair products etc. Yes, putty does dry up but that's usually not an issues until you decide to remove the piece and it looses its seal or if there's a lot of movement and shifting that would cause a break.

I use silicone for a lot of things. It is a great product, but it's just not a useful product for that kind of application. You can't test your drain right away either which is annoying.

Anyhow, never had any issues with the putty, I'll stick to the putty!


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Thanks to Dunbar Plb






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## slate658 (Mar 6, 2017)

I made a lot of money cutting holes in ceilings replacing shower drains set in plumbers putty! the only place I use plumbers putty is setting stainless steel kitchen sinks on formica counters, contractors ask why don't I use silicone, you'll spend half the day trying to clean it up.


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## HonestPlumb (Jan 25, 2015)

ShtRns + MD- I am in total agreement with you ! I also, still pour lead joints. Actually not to long ago, I used my last ****** Y. Most of the my fellow, younger plumbers on here, probably are not familiar with that fitting. It is a cast iron Y, usually 4"X4"X4". The top hub unscrews. Used when you cut into a soil stack. Not sure if they can be found any longer. I sometimes will still pour lead joints when transitioning to plastic also. The PVC by Soil Adapter is what is commonly used. It is a heavy duty thick plastic fitting that goes down into a cast iron hub. Then you pack the Oakum nice and tight. Then pour the lead joint. As ShrtRn said, wait till it cools, then you pack the lead down with a lead packing chisel. ShrtRn, curious if you have the exaggerated "S" loop, packing chisel ? To pack a joint, where you don't have the room to hit a straight packing chisel ? I am sure you younger guys are thinking, "This guy must still cut and thread Galvanized, for his drains" and " What the hell is Oakum?" No, not quite that bad. I just see a trade, that it took a lot of OJT, and skill to become a Master Plumber. Now, between the Code becoming so lax, and manufacturers making things easy for a HO do the job. Our trade is becoming a dieing breed ! I am not against change, and more advanced and modern ways to do the job (After "only" two years of trying, my son convinced me to buy the Rigid Propress tool, and Jaws, with the Viega Pex Jaws, also. Still use copper where I can, with the Propress ) I just hate seeing some "suit" doing our work, on weekends. Oh yea, I will only use putty also. Except on a stone counter top, the oil will stain it. Wondering if the guys that have trouble with the putty, are using that Plasti-Putty ? I hate that stuff.
I shouldn't say "suits". Down at my supply house, there is a picture of 8 of the original Master Plumbers in my town, in 1936. All are in suits, hats and top coats. I have a few customers of my company that was started in 1933. They were kids at the time, and tell me stories from the 1940's of the owner coming to their house, in a suit and top coat. Taking his top coat, and suit jacket, handing it to the mother, and her hanging them closet. While he put his coveralls on !
It may not be done in this day and age, but it is part of our history, as "Tradesmen" !! Thanks for letting me ramble on guys. Sorry about the Novel !


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## MindLost (May 25, 2013)

I prefer putty. On lav's its not an issue, but on basket strainers I always run the hot water to soften it up, and then i tighten the basket strainer down again. I have never had an issue with putty. I do not like using silicone due to the smell, it getting every where, hard to wipe off, and if the home owner ever wants to change finishes it is going to be a major PITA to take off. 

I would definitely want to kick whom ever in the balls if they some how got silicone into the shoe of a lift and turn, and I couldn't get it out.... OMG the thought is actually making me rage.....


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

MindLost said:


> I prefer putty. On lav's its not an issue, but on basket strainers I always run the hot water to soften it up, and then i tighten the basket strainer down again. I have never had an issue with putty. I do not like using silicone due to the smell, it getting every where, hard to wipe off, and if the home owner ever wants to change finishes it is going to be a major PITA to take off.
> 
> I would definitely want to kick whom ever in the balls if they some how got silicone into the shoe of a lift and turn, and I couldn't get it out.... OMG the thought is actually making me rage.....


Have you lost your mind?

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