# Pex



## JA Plumbing (Jun 1, 2010)

I have been installing PEX for the last 5 years and I thought I had seen it all with bad installations. There are a couple of companies in my area now installing PEX exposed in the garage and under cabinets. Unfortunately we have inspectors out here who are passing it that way. Has anyone seen this done before? Does anybody else think this is a horrible idea?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

JA Plumbing said:


> I have been installing PEX for the last 5 years and I thought I had seen it all with bad installations. There are a couple of companies in my area now installing PEX exposed in the garage and under cabinets. Unfortunately we have inspectors out here who are passing it that way. Has anyone seen this done before? Does anybody else think this is a horrible idea?


Ok exposed in a garage and under cabinets.....whats the big deal? Keep the sun off it and its ok if the guy living there says its ok.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Ok exposed in a garage and under cabinets.....whats the big deal? Keep the sun off it and its ok if the guy living there says its ok.


 Stirring the Pot !!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I do it all the time. 

Come here and try to bid against me. See if homeowners like the idea of paying way more to cut open walls and remove cabinets to get it all in the wall.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Go ahead and hack it in. Everyone else does. It's PEX who cares? Cheap and fast, Fast and cheap. :whistling2:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Go ahead and hack it in. Everyone else does. It's PEX who cares? Cheap and fast, Fast and cheap. :whistling2:


North of the Mason/Dixon you won't expose piping in a garage. Hell some go away and leave the garage door open. Then they freeze in the ceilings. Then you put them back together with Shark-Bites ... LOL Now as to under a cabinet ... OK, I guess unless the wall is cantaliverd out,
then it could get pretty cold under the cabinets. People don't like leaving cabinet doors open in cold weather.


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## JA Plumbing (Jun 1, 2010)

*Uponor response*

So I checked with Uponor after I posted yesterday. They will not honor manufacturer's warranty if you install exposed in the garage or in the cabinets. There are several reasons: potential UV exposure, pipe not protected against abrasion or impact, and potential of chemicals coming into contact with the pipe and degrading it. My other objection to running exposed in the garage is if you are penetrating a firewall in California you have to use metalic pipe to keep the firewall intact. If we repipe a house we patch any holes we cut open. My philosophy is do it right. Running pipes exposed in the cabinets is for the cheap craigslist guy with no GL and paying his guys under the table.

Enjoy Florida and the lax building codes because we don't have that out here.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

JA Plumbing said:


> So I checked with Uponor after I posted yesterday. They will not honor manufacturer's warranty if you install exposed in the garage or in the cabinets. There are several reasons: potential UV exposure, pipe not protected against abrasion or impact, and potential of chemicals coming into contact with the pipe and degrading it. My other objection to running exposed in the garage is if you are penetrating a firewall in California you have to use metalic pipe to keep the firewall intact. If we repipe a house we patch any holes we cut open. My philosophy is do it right. Running pipes exposed in the cabinets is for the cheap craigslist guy with no GL and paying his guys under the table.
> 
> Enjoy Florida and the lax building codes because we don't have that out here.


What does penetrating a firewall and running pex exposed in a garage have in common......NOTHING!!!! You FAIL!!!!!! Painting the pipe protects from U.V. 

Nope you dont have lax building codes...you have LAX immigration enforcement and your over run with mexicans. Keep your code and while the rest of us try to stop the flood of nacho's. California needs to get their priorities straight and so do you. Have a wonderful day D.A.:thumbsup:


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## JA Plumbing (Jun 1, 2010)

*firewall*

Um I guess you have all detached garages where you are from? If the water heater in the garage shares a common wall with the house IN CALIFORNIA this is a firewall and any penetrations by pipe or conduit must be made with a metallic material. That is the code here.

As far as painting the pipe. Do you paint it yourself? If not how do you know that the proper paint was used?

Are you a believer in doing a half ass job just to get the work?

Just for the record I am pro-immigration enforcement.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

JA Plumbing said:


> Um I guess you have all detached garages where you are from? If the water heater in the garage shares a common wall with the house IN CALIFORNIA this is a firewall and any penetrations by pipe or conduit must be made with a metallic material. That is the code here.
> 
> As far as painting the pipe. Do you paint it yourself? If not how do you know that the proper paint was used?
> 
> ...


Detached garages,firewalls,etc has NOTHING TO DO WITH PEX EXPOSED IN A GARAGE. You know they do make transition fittings.

I dont care if the proper paint is used.....thats between the painter and the customer. They sign off on....."The pipe must be painted or covered to protect from sunlight" and my job is done.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

isnt a garage a cold zone?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

AKdaplumba said:


> isnt a garage a cold zone?


Sure....so what....would copper be better?:laughing:


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## JA Plumbing (Jun 1, 2010)

*pex*

If you are using exclusively PEX, like the ???? I was referring to when I started this string, then you are not using the transitions and penetrating the firewall properly.

If we have to run pipe exposed, penetrate a firewall. or when we make our stub outs we use copper.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

JA Plumbing said:


> If you are using exclusively PEX, like the ???? I was referring to when I started this string, then you are not using the transitions and penetrating the firewall properly.
> 
> If we have to run pipe exposed, penetrate a firewall. or when we make our stub outs we use copper.



Yup, cause copper dosent freeze.:laughing: I guess you guys use all Cast iron too, when penetrating a fire wall with your DWV?

*I bet NOT!!!!!!!!

Lets be honest can we? 

You probably, and most likely use A.B.S. But PEX is the Devil?:laughing:
*


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## JA Plumbing (Jun 1, 2010)

*drains*

We use cast iron, copper, or galvanized for drains penetrating the firewall. It wouldn't pass an inspection otherwise when you penetrate a firewall.

We unfortunately have a lot of cities and counties out here that don't allow any kind of non-metallic pipe to be used. Hell some of them won't even let use use CSST for gas lines, but they don't have a problem letting their union brothers use it.

I don't think PEX is the devil. I like using it. The problem is when you have other people installing it improperly it gets a bad rap. 

We do ten to twelve residential repipes a week. It used to be that 100% of them were copper, now about 20% is PEX and the number is growing steadily. I wouldn't install it if I thought it was an inferior product.

In freezing conditions I would much prefer PEX, but I live in the state where we don't actually have seasons!

Like most things you give the customer what is best for their situation, budget, etc.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I see. How many inches of pipe outside the wall is considered "exposed"?
Do you stub everything out in copper? What about in the attic? That piping is "exposed".

I call BS. Please give me the name of your Uponor rep who said this. I'd like to have a chat with them about this..........



JA Plumbing said:


> So I checked with Uponor after I posted yesterday. *They will not honor manufacturer's warranty if you install exposed in the garage or in the cabinets.* There are several reasons: potential UV exposure, pipe not protected against abrasion or impact, and potential of chemicals coming into contact with the pipe and degrading it. My other objection to running exposed in the garage is if you are penetrating a firewall in California you have to use metalic pipe to keep the firewall intact. If we repipe a house we patch any holes we cut open. My philosophy is do it right. Running pipes exposed in the cabinets is for the cheap craigslist guy with no GL and paying his guys under the table.
> 
> Enjoy Florida and the lax building codes because we don't have that out here.


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## JA Plumbing (Jun 1, 2010)

*You Are In Florida!!*

I am talking California and code is different everywhere. So lets just get to the specifics

The original comment was PEX exposed in the garage on the walls. 

If you had read the installer's manual from Uponor you would see that it clearly states:

1. Do not spray on or allow organic chemicals, pesticides, strong acids, or strong bases to come into contact with Uponor PEX.

2. Do not use petroleum or solvent based paints on Uponor PEX.

3. Do not subject Uponor PEX to impact.

4. Do not expose Uponor PEX to UV sunlight for more than 30 days.

It seems likely that those are all things that could happen in a garage.

Try calling the technical department at Uponor and see if they say something different to you than they did to me.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

JA Plumbing said:


> If you are using exclusively PEX, like the ???? I was referring to when I started this string, then you are not using the transitions and penetrating the firewall properly.
> 
> If we have to run pipe exposed, penetrate a firewall. or when we make our stub outs we use copper.


If a mentally challenged person wants to be a plumber. More power to em. It's not nice to call em retards though.

How bout those collapsable fire collars. Do they make em small enough for pex piping. That is what I use for DWV PVC penetrating fire rated walls.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

JA Plumbing said:


> I am talking California and code is different everywhere. So lets just get to the specifics
> 
> The original comment was PEX exposed in the garage on the walls.
> 
> ...


You didn't answer the question. You veered off on a tangent....


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Most of that is just them covering their butts. Let's review them.



JA Plumbing said:


> I am talking California and code is different everywhere. So lets just get to the specifics
> 
> The original comment was PEX exposed in the garage on the walls.
> 
> ...


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

This guys living in a book. Just thought I'd throw that out there.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Who? Me or JAP?



TheMaster said:


> This guys living in a book. Just thought I'd throw that out there.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Who? Me or JAP?


The other guys living in a code book and a particular manufactures general rule book.


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

AKdaplumba said:


> isnt a garage a cold zone?


 California??


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

JA Plumbing said:


> If you are using exclusively PEX, like the ???? I was referring to when I started this string, then you are not using the transitions and penetrating the firewall properly.
> 
> If we have to run pipe exposed, penetrate a firewall. or when we make our stub outs we use copper.


 You didn't give all the facts. This thread could have gone anywhere.:whistling2:
Just sayin'.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> North of the Mason/Dixon you won't expose piping in a garage. Hell some go away and leave the garage door open. Then they freeze in the ceilings. Then you put them back together with Shark-Bites ... LOL Now as to under a cabinet ... OK, I guess unless the wall is cantaliverd out,
> then it could get pretty cold under the cabinets. People don't like leaving cabinet doors open in cold weather.


Yea, yea, who cares, a couple sharkbites and it's good a new :laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Here is some pex exposed on a pier in the middle of full sun and weather extremes. It got down to 10-12 degrees last winter and we hit highs of 110 this summer. This pipe was installed 2 months after hurricane katrina washed the last pier away. Thats 5 years old.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Here is some pex exposed on a pier in the middle of full sun and weather extremes. It got down to 10-12 degrees last winter and we hit highs of 110 this summer. This pipe was installed 2 months after hurricane katrina washed the last pier away. Thats 5 years old.



How do you know the history behind this install, did you install it?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I don't see a vacuum breaker. I bet it's a non-potable line served by a backflow device


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron said:


> How do you know the history behind this install, did you install it?


It was installed a few months after hurricane katrina. No I did not have anything to do wid it.



Matt said:


> I don't see a vacuum breaker. I bet it's a non-potable line served by a backflow device


Its connected to the sprinkler system that has backflow protection but the protection is provided by the water provider in that area. They figure the cost of maintaining/testing it into the water bill. They claim ulrimately its the water providers responsibility to protect its customers.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I can't believe that thing hasn't dried out and split yet


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Protech said:


> I can't believe that thing hasn't dried out and split yet


are you being for real or is it sarcasim towards cpvc? just curious


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I being serious. Most single layer pex will only last 2 years in full sun like that.



house plumber said:


> are you being for real or is it sarcasim towards cpvc? just curious


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## Aussieplumber (Aug 12, 2010)

Just shows laziness running pex pipe in the first...
Rats love to have a chew on the thin wall.
Im a all about copper and Viega has made the job so much more easier and quicker. And rats cant chew through copper.
May use Rehau is some cases but that the only brand of polly pipe i would use.
We have over six brand of polly water pipe in Australia,


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

If you are concerned with rat chews, you can always use pex-aluminum-pex composite in high risk areas (multi-family housing above grade)



Aussieplumber said:


> Just shows laziness running pex pipe in the first...
> Rats love to have a chew on the thin wall.
> Im a all about copper and Viega has made the job so much more easier and quicker. And rats cant chew through copper.
> May use Rehau is some cases but that the only brand of polly pipe i would use.
> We have over six brand of polly water pipe in Australia,


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Actually everything that JA Plumbing is saying is correct when it comes to what is allowed here in California. Cities like San Francisco don't allow any pipe that is non metallic. If you tired to use ABS or pex there you would fail inspection guaranteed. And I believe what he meant by his question was for the stub outs for a water heater thats in the garage and things like that. Here in California we are told that within a certain amount of distance of being stubbed out of the wall it has to be transitioned to copper. Don't remember the exact distance because I don't use pex.


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