# Boiler for a buddy



## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

I all, I've been away for a while as I had some changes in my life. (No, not prison).

Some of you may remember a couple years back I was at a company for seven years and contemplated partnering with my father (he did just wells/well pumps). 

Well it's been about two years and with adding water treatment and general plumbing we've had our best year since the business opened last year. I've honestly mostly been doing wells/pumps/water treatment. We are not advertising as a full service plumbing company yet as my father is not a a plumber and we are busy with the well work- just some remodels and maybe some service work but nothing crazy. Within a couple years I hope to have another plumber on staff and then start to expand that end of the business.

Anyway here are some pictures of a boiler at my buddies house- I'm not a heating guy but my buddy and I installed it (he's a industrial heating and cooking guy- cascading refrigeration and stuff like that so he set up the burner)


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> I all, I've been away for a while as I had some changes in my life. (No, not prison).
> 
> Some of you may remember a couple years back I was at a company for seven years and contemplated partnering with my father (he did just wells/well pumps).
> 
> ...


 Welcome back!.... that boiler job is done profeesially!.. but one thing.. the more pump u have on the system... the longer straightaway pipe u need before the air scoop...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Welcome back, nice clean job. I see 2 things missing.
1-low water cutoff
2- pressure relief valve on tankless


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> Welcome back, nice clean job. I see 2 things missing. 1-low water cutoff 2- pressure relief valve on tankless


 actually that Aqua stat he used has a built in low water cut off. I still Always install one first fitting off the supply either way though.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

jmc12185 said:


> actually that Aqua stat he used has a built in low water cut off. I still Always install one first fitting off the supply either way though.



I was wondering if of it was one of the new style with LWCO built in


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## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

NICE JOB.
Here in NJ they also want another valve after the PRV.
I use Spiro Vents on my hot water boilers.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumber11928 said:


> NICE JOB.
> Here in NJ they also want another valve after the PRV.
> I use Spiro Vents on my hot water boilers.


Don't need spiro vent or air scoop on Weil Mclain boilers when piped correctly


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## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

True True.....The Auto air vent ftg on top of a Weil McLain.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

But but that's that's a Peerless


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> But but that's that's a Peerless


Yeap.. some Peerless have built in air scoop.. dunno about this model.. regardless.. its still way better than Junkirk boilers!


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I still think it's just a good practice to add air eliminator.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> I still think it's just a good practice to add air eliminator.


Not if you already have a built in one and piped correctly..


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

When you say it has a built in air eliminator, do you mean the high vent 1/8"hi vent connection on the boiler tapping? If so I still think it would be good practice to have it, regardless if it's piped right. Just my opinion


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> When you say it has a built in air eliminator, do you mean the high vent 1/8"hi vent connection on the boiler tapping? If so I still think it would be good practice to have it, regardless if it's piped right. Just my opinion


The boiler itself is the widest part of the system and flow thru is greatly reduced, hence, air will come out of the solution... using the vent tapping going into exp tank as well vent will do a much better job than the air scoop on the pipe...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I would still spend the extra money and install it


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> I would still spend the extra money and install it


Waste of money... for Junkirk boilers.. I make my own air scoop nipple...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

First I guess one problem is I always installed either Burnham p series gas boilers or Biasi or Buderus for oil. I'm out of the installation game now and just before I got out I was pretty much installing wall hung condensing boilers.


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

This peerless boiler has separate 3/4 tapping right next to supply for air eliminater. But I do agree with what someone else said previously, install a spiro vent and air will never be an issue. They work awesome.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> This peerless boiler has separate 3/4 tapping right next to supply for air eliminater. But I do agree with what someone else said previously, install a spiro vent and air will never be an issue. They work awesome.


I've seen air issue with spriovent on boiler that incorrectly installed..


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> I've seen air issue with spriovent on boiler that incorrectly installed..


 I'm not sure how someone could install one incorrectly. It's pretty simple. If one doesn't know the right place for a spiro vent, they have no business touching a boiler.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> I'm not sure how someone could install one incorrectly. It's pretty simple. If one doesn't know the right place for a spiro vent, they have no business touching a boiler.


Same for those who capped the air scoop connection on boilers and install expensvie spiro vent and still have problems


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

LWCO is built into the becket control. 

Is there a certain distance per pump on the straight pipe before the air scoop?

I dont believe code states we require a valve on the relief valve....dont want to make it too easy to change out do we?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> LWCO is built into the becket control.
> 
> Is there a certain distance per pump on the straight pipe before the air scoop?
> 
> I dont believe code states we require a valve on the relief valve....dont want to make it too easy to change out do we?


Min 18" straightaway before air scoop.. more if multi pumps... which isn't needed if you use the air scoop connection on the boiler..


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Min 18" straightaway before air scoop.. more if multi pumps... which isn't needed if you use the air scoop connection on the boiler..


 That is ridiculous. Who has that kind of space. Even if you did, it wouldn't look right because everything is so spread out.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

AWWGH said:


> LWCO is built into the becket control.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The reference to the relief valve was on the tankless, the reference to the valve was downstream of the pressure reducing valve. You would never install a valve on a relief valve.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> That is ridiculous. Who has that kind of space. Even if you did, it wouldn't look right because everything is so spread out.


Right... so use the boiler air scoop connection next time.. that's what its there for...


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Right... so use the boiler air scoop connection next time.. that's what its there for...


 Spiro vent does not require the 18" like traditional air scoops do.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> Spiro vent does not require the 18" like traditional air scoops do.


True.. why have spriovent when you already have the scoop built inside the boiler, the best place to be?? Also, B&G EAS air removal is even better... pipe it like flo control fitting..


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Does the boiler tapping have a scoop underneath it? Or is just a tapping on the top of the block?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> Does the boiler tapping have a scoop underneath it? Or is just a tapping on the top of the block?


On upper most left side casting on Weil Mclain EG or EGH boilers.. on u'll see a curved scoop inside.. ... old idea... American Standard, U.S. Boiler, Crane, Burnham used to have them.. some Peerless.. none of the Junkirk ( rebadged as Lennox, Sears, Carrier, untica, etc) have them.. them junkirk boilers are priced cheap and are the ones to give the most troubles, hence, the plumbers and sorched air techs give up and went to forced air system.. which is why you see so many radiators and 'new' boilers on cragslist..


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Another rebadged brand by Junkirk..Bryant..


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Another thing on the boiler tankless install I forgot to mention is all the piping is to be piped a min of 12" below the tapping.


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

Most boilers I install do not have built in air scoop so they all get a spiro vent. I almost never have a problem with air. I do install quite a bit of Weil mclains. Are you sure they have it built in? I've never noticed.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Instruction off Weil McLain gas boiler says to install air separator on supply piping. "Just saying"


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> Most boilers I install do not have built in air scoop so they all get a spiro vent. I almost never have a problem with air. I do install quite a bit of Weil mclains. Are you sure they have it built in? I've never noticed.


I've been installing weil Mclain for only one reason.. built in air removal and no callbacks regarding air problems like those cheaper rebadged boilers as mentioned... all cgi,cga, EG, EGH, LGB and even the GV90 have built in air elimator!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> Instruction off Weil McLain gas boiler says to install air separator on supply piping. "Just saying"


Which boiler model???


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

CGA, look under water piping ( circulator )


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> CGA, look under water piping ( circulator )


That's whacked... some forced air guy wrote that... and been looking at the diaghrams.. not one show any air seprater... only showed how to piped with diaphram tank and steel tank... but never say to cap it!... if u install the cga boiler, u will see white sticker over the vent opening on top


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Keep scrolling, I believe page 19


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Never said not to use vent, just said good practice to use air scoop/eliminator. Your way will work also, but the manufacture specs say to install, and we all know that's gospel


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> Keep scrolling, I believe page 19


That's one part I missed.. even the piping diaghrams doesn't show any air seprator.. just show how to pipe with exp tanks..


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Sure it does #13


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Nice looking work.

Is that a copper male directly connected to black iron?? Wouldn't do that here, dissimilar metals, would have used a brass male or di-electric union.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

GAN said:


> Nice looking work.
> 
> Is that a copper male directly connected to black iron?? Wouldn't do that here, dissimilar metals, would have used a brass male or di-electric union.


No! N o!no! Don't needs those crappy die electric on hydronic heating system!


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Brass, brass, brass........:thumbup1:. Was never one to promote galvanic responses.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

I understand the minimum 18" before scoop, but longer than that for more than one circulator?

We are going to install the taco outdoor reset in the panel, anyone have experience with them? Are they as good as I am told?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> I understand the minimum 18" before scoop, but longer than that for more than one circulator?
> 
> We are going to install the taco outdoor reset in the panel, anyone have experience with them? Are they as good as I am told?


Tekmar make those outdoor controls for taco and other brand.. u looking at nbr 269 control... very good one for single stage boiler control... always cover the pipe sensor with insualtion and make sure the outdoor sensor sits where the sun don't shines... away from any heat producing exhaust, just as dryer vent etc.. ( have a story about it)


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> I understand the minimum 18" before scoop, but longer than that for more than one circulator?
> 
> We are going to install the taco outdoor reset in the panel, anyone have experience with them? Are they as good as I am told?


rules of thumb.. air scoop to be 18 pipe dia of straigth away.. so if u have more than one pump, surely ur pipe size would be bigger, hence, longer run...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

GAN said:


> Brass, brass, brass........:thumbup1:. Was never one to promote galvanic responses.


Just stick the male into the female and u won't have any problems..


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> rules of thumb.. air scoop to be 18 pipe dia of straigth away.. so if u have more than one pump, surely ur pipe size would be bigger, hence, longer run...



You don't need no stinking air scoop if it's piped right😀😀😀, sorry just breaking balls


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> You don't need no stinking air scoop if it's piped right?de00?de00?de00, sorry just breaking balls


Damn right!! But for those cheap boiler without air scoop... u'll have to... side outlet, I make my own scoop


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Damn right!! But for those cheap boiler without air scoop... u'll have to... side outlet, I make my own scoop


 How in the world do you make your own? Does it work?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> How in the world do you make your own? Does it work?


Yep...very well... no more air 'marbles' rushing thru the copper fin pipings... system runs silent.. differance is like day and night..


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Yep...very well... no more air 'marbles' rushing thru the copper fin pipings... system runs silent.. differance is like day and night..


 How do you go about making one?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> How do you go about making one?


Got creative... called it nipple scoop


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

By the way, no one noticed all the empty beer bottles!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> By the way, no one noticed all the empty beer bottles!


I did...


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