# Liquid Membrane Shower Pan



## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Started this shower and we went with a liquid membrane shower pan. When you do this method you have to make a "divot" in the mud bed to make a water proof connection to the shower drain. That is why you see a metal pan in one of the photos. We use stucco mesh to reinforce the membrane (even though with the membrane we use it's not necessary), and use fiberglass tape of the corners. Takes 3 coats on the pan. This is not the finished product, still will have to fill the divot with pea gravel and deck mud when we install the shower grate.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Applying the membrane and reinforcing mesh.


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

That's very cool, I'm looking into alternatives to vinal right now. But that looks much harder than what I'm doing. Is it a better product for some reason?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Is that also known as a "kurdy" system? HO im doing a job for is doing that type of system right now. I roughed the drain in for him and that was it. Very neat method. Seems far more superior too than a vinyl pan liner.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

It for sure is a better product than a PVC liner. The mud bed will never be wet and will never cause mold problems down the road. It takes alot longer to install for sure. Takes one day to install the mud bed, then it takes 48 hours before you can apply the liquid membrane. The membrane is not hard to install, but it takes at least a day to install because you have to wait between coats(about an hour).


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Getting popular here also....last one we did also had it...


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Will, have you looked into making a fiber glass shower pan? A company I've worked for used it. they would buy the resin in 5 gallon buckets and rolls of fiberglass sheets. They would roll the resin on the shower floor and up the wall like vinyl then layer a sheet of fiberglass then resin again..The tile guy would lay his mud then tile on top..


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Now is that tile ready or do they have to do mud on top of that also?


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

Will said:


> It for sure is a better product than a PVC liner. The mud bed will never be wet and will never cause mold problems down the road. It takes alot longer to install for sure. Takes one day to install the mud bed, then it takes 48 hours before you can apply the liquid membrane. The membrane is not hard to install, but it takes *at least a day* to install because you have to wait between coats(about an hour).


So its cost the ho a lot more money...a whole day in labor and all.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Not critisizing, just asking. Any particular reason the drain is not centered?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

cityplumbing said:


> Now is that tile ready or do they have to do mud on top of that also?



It's a surface membrane. You tile right on top of the membrane.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> Not critisizing, just asking. Any particular reason the drain is not centered?


That's how it was originally. Home owner didn't want to bust up the floor, that's why I did the liquid membrane, otherwise I would have used Kerdi and a Kerdi Drain.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Few more pictures. Ready now for tile and flood test.


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

Looks great, your actually eliminating the tile guys mud install. And you don't have to worry about holes in the threshold after your liner is down.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Will said:


> That's how it was originally. Home owner didn't want to bust up the floor, that's why I did the liquid membrane, otherwise I would have used Kerdi and a Kerdi Drain.


 WHY oh WHY Will  Don't leave the Kerdi !! U know it's the BEST ! :thumb up:

I had a customer who decided to do that same method in the pics ,,,, they REALLY should have got a pro !


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

How nasty is that stuff when you get it on yourself?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Cal said:


> WHY oh WHY Will  Don't leave the Kerdi !! U know it's the BEST ! :thumb up:
> 
> I had a customer who decided to do that same method in the pics ,,,, they REALLY should have got a pro !



I'm with you on the Kerdi drain, but the kerdi itself I could care less to be honest. The Liquid membrane takes hardly anymore time to install than kerdi would, it's the custom "divot", that take time. Homeowner didn't want to bust up the floor, and I will only do kerdi or liquid membrane pans, so a PVC liner was not an option. Kerdi drain is the best invention for showers of all time imo, but the kerdi membrane or liquid membrane are on par with each other imo.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> How nasty is that stuff when you get it on yourself?



Pretty rough, but it will peel or scratch off once it cures.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

New Shower Pan project we're working on. On this job we left the original base and "buffed" the tile base with a diamond grinder wheel and made a liquid pan with Aquadefense and stucco fiberglass mesh. We used a Kerdi Drain.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Installing the fiberglass mesh and liquid membrane pan. We did 4 coats.


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## agonzales1981 (Mar 30, 2012)

Pretty cool, I've heard about but have yet todo one like that.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

My brother has started using it. He still lays a vinyl pan. He just wants added protection.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

That is a neat system for sure! Forgive my ignorance but how do you get a seal between the drain and liquid liner?


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## NealR (Dec 6, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> That is a neat system for sure! Forgive my ignorance but how do you get a seal between the drain and liquid liner?


The drain is a Kerdi drain, look it up for more info. But in layman's terms, the flange has the kerdi material (fleece) laminated to it. Liquid membranes grab tenaciously to it.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

http://www.schluter.com/8_2_kerdi_drain.aspx


http://www.laticrete.com/contractors/products/hydro_ban_drains/productid/146.aspx

Those are the two manufacturers making drains for a surface applied shower pan. I prefer the Kerdi drain since it has a "fleece" manufactured into the drain from the factory. With the Hydro Ban Bonding Flange you have to scuff up the face of the flange with sand paper before applying lquid membrane.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Protech said:


> My brother has started using it. He still lays a vinyl pan. He just wants added protection.



If you apply the liquid membrane right, there is no need for the "extra" protection. Have him check out Kerdi, it's a sheet membrane that might let him sleep better at night knowing that there is a fabric installed, instead of a liquid membrane. If you do the liquid membrane right, you won't have any problems though.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

We put in the drain and some one else does the rest. A far as I am concerned anything more than the drain is out of hte scope of our license.

We used to install pans (lead, copper, compotite and vinyl) but we had no control over if the pan was punctured later or not, so we now let the tile man do that part of it.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> We put in the drain and some one else does the rest. A far as I am concerned anything more than the drain is out of hte scope of our license.
> 
> We used to install pans (lead, copper, compotite and vinyl) but we had no control over if the pan was punctured later or not, so we now let the tile man do that part of it.



How is it out of my license? A Shower Pan is Plumbing. We do the whole project of the shower construction though. Demo, framing, cbu backer, tile, grout, etc, so I don't have to worry about someone damaging our pan.


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## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

I though about doing something similar with bed liner but don't really want to risk how well it would work


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Thanks!

I have not seen those around here yet. We have a 21 story condo with constant pan liner probs and I will recomend this!


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