# Solar thermal, the sequel: Dances with Columbians



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I should probably just leave this alone but I just have to know.

pics to follow....


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Question for Camillo or saveonsolar. 

What method was used to seal this roof penetration in this job you did? It doesn't look like any flashing of any kind was used. It looks like some sealant was used but that's about it. If you did use a flashing, how the heck did you get it under the shingles that far up?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Similar question here. How did you seal these penetrations around the pvc pipe?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

*Kenneth Zapen* Not trying to knit pick your work or start anything but.....isn't the first collector gong to shade the second one during the winter? I don’t know the angle they are set at and I’m too drunk and lazy right now to look up your latitude. Again, just asking, not trying to get into it with you )

Yesterday at 10:52pm · 

 *Camilo Gomez* not only that but do you see the tree in the background? this install was not a Saving Oahu's Solar install, I was helping another company and this is how they do their thing.... no quality control.

Yesterday at 11:16pm · Report


 *Kenneth Zapen* Oh, ok.

Yesterday at 11:22pm · 


 *Camilo Gomez* just fyi Kenneth, we're 2 feet apart from panel to panel (rear to front)... and they're at a 2 foot lift... our latitude here is 21 degrees, so the panels would not shade each other. BUT, there are a lot of issues with this job that really shouldn't be practiced. Again as I said... it's one of those things where I was helping another contractor and he does things his way, you know how it is.

12 hours ago · Report


 *Kenneth Zapen* Actually, if your latitude is 21 that means that it's 36 degrees in the middle of winter. Assuming a 2' lift and 2' spacing that would mean the sun would have to have an angle of 67.5 degrees with respect to the ground or more to NOT shade the bottom of the back collector. Since the sun has an angle of 54 degrees at high noon in the middle of winter there, that means the back panel is going to be shaded a bit in the winter.

Good thing someone else designed it.


45 minutes ago ·


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I saw this a week ago. T/p drain common with pressure relief valve drain back pitched. CPVC plastic male adapters threaded into both the T/P valve and the pressure relief valve leaking like a stuck pig.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

mo pics


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Also on the same house.

No freeze valve. no air vent valve. "flashing" made of wood? :blink:


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Wow. Thats atrocious.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

When did you visit Oahu Ken?


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

that is actually a block of wood,...:blink: huh...interesting.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Here is a solar water heater that I just looked at in Kissimmee Florida. The home is a rental and the landlord left the home vacant over the winter with the water and power turned of WITHOUT draining the collector down. Bad move. This is the downside of direct systems. They are inexpensive, very efficient and low/no maintenance……..expect that you have to keep the water turned up when we have a cold winter. It still paid for itself several times over. It was originally installed in 1998 as you can see on the heater tag. I don’t like how the flashings were mounted. They should have been slid up under the shingles. When that flashing sealant finally does go bad in another few years water is going to run right under that flashing…….but then again the roof will need to be replaced at that age anyway….meh… whatever.

You can see the steam shooting out of the freeze splits when I had the HO turn the loop valves on.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

mo pics


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

mo pics still.

If you'll notice, the pump is mounted above the tank like it usually is. The pump still works after 12 years :whistling2:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*probably treated lumber*

uote=plumbpro;111565]that is actually a block of wood,...:blink: huh...interesting.[/quote]

I am sure its treated lumber with a litle tar pitch smeared on it...:laughing::laughing:

that is fine quality workmanship .....


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Last set of pics for this heater.

No motorized check valve. Not a good idea. When the freeze valve goes off there is nothing to direct the flow into the bottom of the collector instead of going up the return side and bypassing it. Heat losses due to night thermo siphoning will be significant as well.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

And hey look, its a taco pump.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Do you get called for R&R when a home needs shingled?

Are there unions on the units for this purpose?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> uote=plumbpro;111565]that is actually a block of wood,...:blink: huh...interesting.


I am sure its treated lumber with a litle tar pitch smeared on it...:laughing::laughing:

that is fine quality workmanship .....[/quote]


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes. 

We don't install unions anymore because if there are unions it encourages the roofer to attempt to play plumber himself. Then the system doesn't work or is damaged and the homeowner ends up paying dearly for it. 



Matt said:


> Do you get called for R&R when a home needs shingled?
> 
> Are there unions on the units for this purpose?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

That would be a great place for a brass left and right coupling:laughing:


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## kentdmo (Dec 15, 2008)

wow


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I have no experience with solar, but I guess I have to remember, as 1 of you say it, the only dumb question, is the one not asked. So here goes.
1-( Is this solar panel system only for hot water?
If the answer is yes, how much of an energy savings can it possibly be, after all that work and materials is paid for? Looks like your truck is worth more than that house. I mean look at the set of steps going out the back.
Those water pipes next to heater, that I assume are for a washmachine, look like they were installed by a $5 per hr hack, but yet they have these fancy solar panels on roof. I fail to see this customers way of thinking. And I am also surprised he is willing to finally pay a pro. Especially will be surprised if all this, is just for hot water. TJMO. 
Your pics are very informative & interesting, Protech, keep up the good work:thumbsup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I like the title to this thread......I nominate it to win the thread title of the year award.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

respones in blue



Don The Plumber said:


> I have no experience with solar, but I guess I have to remember, as 1 of you say it, the only dumb question, is the one not asked. So here goes.
> 1-( Is this solar panel system only for hot water? Yes
> If the answer is yes, how much of an energy savings can it possibly be, after all that work and materials is paid for? Usually about$45 to $85 per month depending on several factors. Pay off times can vary between 2 years and 8 years. The average family of 2-4 will see a pay off date of just under 5 years all things considered. Looks like your truck is worth more than that house. I mean look at the set of steps going out the back.
> Those water pipes next to heater, that I assume are for a washmachine, look like they were installed by a $5 per hr hack, but yet they have these fancy solar panels on roof. I fail to see this customers way of thinking. And I am also surprised he is willing to finally pay a pro. Especially will be surprised if all this, is just for hot water. TJMO.
> Your pics are very informative & interesting, Protech, keep up the good work:thumbsup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I call this one "wavy gravy". Notice how the roof has been rubbed raw from thousands of thermal expansion cycles. Skid plates people, skid plates! No skid plates=roof rash.

I try to push sch. 80 CPVC for the loop piping so it doesn't get all saggy like this. This system is 15 years old. The top row of collectors has been replaced recently. I'm coming back next week to replace 3 on the bottom and install an automated differential controller.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

A solar pool system I was servicing today in a retirment community. Those folks get real snippy when their pool gets below 90 degrees .


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

*Greatings from Israel*

My brother is in Israel right now and just e-mailed me these photos.



"I have never seen so many solar water heaters in my life. Every apartment of every building has one. Check out this pic. Each white cylinder next to or above a black panel in this pic is a solar water heating system. Yikes that's a lot."


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Let's have a closer look:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Here is a new install we did last week in lake wales.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Mo pics


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Some close-ups


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The bottom end.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Finished roof collector, yard sign and all.


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## rex (Jun 13, 2008)

why you got duct tape on ur flux?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I lost the lid to the container 



rex said:


> why you got duct tape on ur flux?


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