# Difference Between Journeyman and Master License?



## Mathyou (Oct 20, 2011)

In Illinois we only have either an apprentice or journeyman's license. Once you serve your required 4-5 years of apprenticeship, pass all the required classes, and work the required hours you become eligible to take the state/city journeyman's plumbing test to become a licensed journeyman. Once your a licensed journeyman you can do/ acquire anything related to the plumbing industry in the state of Illinois (get a contractor plumbing license, get a CCCDI license, inspect plumbing, sign off on plumbing plans, ect...)

I see in other states there is a master's license... what is the difference and what is the point of having a separate journeyman and master license?

I keep hearing the term master's license and felt it was time to know what is going on.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Master licence is really just another way of saying buisness owner.... you don't have to be a trades man just have to have one working for you...

They just want you to realize that you have fullfill your obligations and laws.... to run a buisness....

More or less you become the master and they become the slaves


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

We journey men/women in illinois are so cool, we don't need no stinkin' masters.:thumbup:


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## wundumguy (Apr 3, 2010)

Life can be funny sometimes. We don't have a Master's ticket here either, and I asked the same question when I first got onto this board. OldSchool pretty much described it: In the modern world, in many jurisdictions, Master Licence, Contractor Licence and/or Business Licence are often interchangeable.

Dependng on the jurisdiction, you may have to serve a minimum period before becoming eligible to apply for a Master's Licence and/or may have to pass additional exams. In these parts, once you got a Jouneyman's ticket, you pretty much only have to pay the business licencing fee at City Hall to become a Plumbing Contractor.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

wundumguy said:


> Life can be funny sometimes. We don't have a Master's ticket here either, and I asked the same question when I first got onto this board. OldSchool pretty much described it: In the modern world, in many jurisdictions, Master Licence, Contractor Licence and/or Business Licence are often interchangeable.
> 
> Dependng on the jurisdiction, you may have to serve a minimum period before becoming eligible to apply for a Master's Licence and/or may have to pass additional exams. In these parts, once you got a Jouneyman's ticket, you pretty much only have to pay the business licencing fee at City Hall to become a Plumbing Contractor.


Look at your buisness licence .... more than likely it says masters on it... mine does

Then they also give me a plastic card for my wallet... for buisness licence... it has masters written right across it....

No test here .... they just want proof of trade licence and insurance and of coarse some of your money


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Apprentice - supervised employee

Journeyman - unsupervised emplolyee

Master (Contractor in some states) - employer


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Contractor, the one who gets sued if stuff goes bad.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

In Idaho, you need four years as an apprentice + 4 years of school to test for your journeyman's card.
Then 2 more years before you can test for your Contractor license .
So if everything go's well from start to finish it takes a min of 6 years to get your contractors license.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Here in St. Louis it's a 5 year apprenticeship then you can test for a journeymans license. You must then have the journeymans license for a minimum of 5 years to be eligible to take the masters exam and business and law exam to be a contractor and pull permits. 10 years minimum to go in business for yourself. :thumbup:


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## Mathyou (Oct 20, 2011)

I guess Illinois does technically have a "Master's" after all. Once you become a licensed journeyman to be in business for your self you must obtain a plumbing contractors license (which is governed by the health department, just like a regular plumbing license). You simply need to be a journeyman, prove you hold the required bonding and insurances, and pay a small fee.

We just don't use the term masters... you're simply a journeyman plumber who is providing proof that you have the proper insurance and bonding to work for yourself... and throwing the state an extra $100 a year. It is seen more as a business license then a separate plumbing license above journeyman status.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Pipe Rat said:


> Here in St. Louis it's a 5 year apprenticeship then you can test for a journeymans license. You must then have the journeymans license for a minimum of 5 years to be eligible to take the masters exam and business and law exam to be a contractor and pull permits. 10 years minimum to go in business for yourself. :thumbup:


 





In FL only (4) years are required before someone can sit for the master's exam. That's kind of lax. Some states take the licensing of their professons more seriously (like MO). 

So here, you could have a 22 year old kid who's a master plumber. That doesn't sound right, in my opinion.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> In FL only (4) years are required before someone can sit for the master's exam. That's kind of lax. Some states take the licensing of their professons more seriously (like MO).
> 
> So here, you could have a 22 year old kid who's a master plumber. That doesn't sound right, in my opinion.


What bothers me is the 40 year old apprentices with 20 years experience.


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## rob the plumber (Oct 21, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> What bothers me is the 40 year old apprentices with 20 years experience.


These are usually they guys who also consider themselves electricians, HVAC, carpenters, etc.. 
Handymen basically. I have not seen one that does nice work yet.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> What bothers me is the 40 year old apprentices with 20 years experience.





rob the plumber said:


> These are usually they guys who also consider themselves electricians, HVAC, carpenters, etc..
> Handymen basically. I have not seen one that does nice work yet.


In Oklahoma we call them GC's. :laughing:


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> In Oklahoma we call them GC's. :laughing:


So you have those there too  I thought it was a California thing:laughing: They are nothing but handymen with a huge ego. I mean here I've seen licensed and insured GC's charge $45-$75hr:blink: We're in one of the most expensive areas in the country how do they make any money? Oh thats right they screw specialty contractors on house additions and remodels


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

tungsten plumb said:


> So you have those there too...


It's a little different here. The GC's are just rejects from concrete, framing, or roofing. They don't have employees or personally do anything.

On the upside, the do drive nice trucks.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> It's a little different here. The GC's are just rejects from concrete, framing, or roofing. They don't have employees or personally do anything.
> 
> On the upside, the do drive nice trucks.


Yeah GC's always have nice trucks its part of the illusion. How else could they sucker homeowners into letting them do the work sure isn't their vast knowledge of the trades.


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## Dan (Nov 29, 2011)

In wisconsin you are apprenticed for 5 years before you can take Journeymans test. If you pass that (it's not a gimmie - just this year our best apprectice had to take it 8 times to pass!) you work another 3 years before you can take Masters test. You need your masters to own a business and submit plans for state approval. You also need to include your masters license number in any ads you run. Sometimes we get people in from out of state without a masters license that "hang out a shingle" and the guys who actually hold the licenses turn them in to the state and run them out of business. We do protect the work we put into getting it and training the apprectices!


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## Mega plumbing (Dec 20, 2011)

Mathyou said:


> In Illinois we only have either an apprentice or journeyman's license. Once you serve your required 4-5 years of apprenticeship, pass all the required classes, and work the required hours you become eligible to take the state/city journeyman's plumbing test to become a licensed journeyman. Once your a licensed journeyman you can do/ acquire anything related to the plumbing industry in the state of Illinois (get a contractor plumbing license, get a CCCDI license, inspect plumbing, sign off on plumbing plans, ect...)
> 
> I see in other states there is a master's license... what is the difference and what is the point of having a separate journeyman and master license?
> 
> I keep hearing the term master's license and felt it was time to know what is going on.


In NJ it's 8000 hours on the job, 4 years of school while being an apprentice and one year being a journeyman. So by the end of the 5th year you're able to take the masters plumbing exam.
Personally I like the term Master plumber, I think the customers like to see that too.
The test is three part, practical, business and drawing. Around 8 hour test all together . I was laid off in 2008 and collected so I had plenty of time to study and passed on the first try. I highly recommend studying.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

This thread is a wonderful example of just how F'd up the whole licensing/code thing is in this country. Everybody should be under the same code with the same licensing schedule and furthermore a master in NY should be able to work anywhere in the country with his license.


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> This thread is a wonderful example of just how F'd up the whole licensing/code thing is in this country. Everybody should be under the same code with the same licensing schedule and furthermore a master in NY should be able to work anywhere in the country with his license.


I disagree with the whole national license thing!!! Let me keep my work where I'm licensed and you can keep yours


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Dan said:


> In wisconsin you are apprenticed for 5 years before you can take Journeymans test. If you pass that (it's not a gimmie - just this year our best apprectice had to take it 8 times to pass!) We do protect the work we put into getting it and training the apprectices!


All's I can say is.... WOW!


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Lmp said:


> I disagree with the whole national license thing!!! Let me keep my work where I'm licensed and you can keep yours


I'm with you LMP


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## paulanderson (Dec 27, 2011)

4-5 years of apprenticeship and taking regular classes seems like a very tough journey. it requires a lot of hardwork to get that Journeyman's License in IL. Anyway I know a lot of people having both journeyman and master license in New york.


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> I'm with you LMP


Thanks!


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

paulanderson said:


> 4-5 years of apprenticeship and taking regular classes seems like a very tough journey. it requires a lot of hardwork to get that Journeyman's License in IL. Anyway I know a lot of people having both journeyman and master license in New york.


Journeyman license in new York ??????


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

paulanderson said:


> 4-5 years of apprenticeship and taking regular classes seems like a very tough journey. it requires a lot of hardwork to get that Journeyman's License in IL. Anyway I know a lot of people having both journeyman and master license in New york.


Post an intro!!!!!!!!!!


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Lmp said:


> Post an intro!!!!!!!!!!


Banned.....

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## Turd Chaser (Dec 1, 2011)

In WI, we have Masters as well. The only difference is a master can pull plumbing permits and one is needed to have a plumbing shop. 

If Ill. is so cool then what happened to the Bears on Sunday???:laughing:


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Westchester N.Y. Has a journeyman card you must take a exam and NYC journeyman card you must show 5 years of working for a master plumber on the books or if you are in the union go through their program


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Lmp said:


> I disagree with the whole national license thing!!! Let me keep my work where I'm licensed and you can keep yours


I agree also!


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Plumber71 said:


> Westchester N.Y. Has a journeyman card you must take a exam and NYC journeyman card you must show 5 years of working for a master plumber on the books or if you are in the union go through their program


Yes now in NYC you have to be a registered journeyman with the DOB for 2 years included with the necessary 7 years with in 10 years to be allowed to take your master plumbers exam. But it is not required to work on plumbing if your employed by a licensed master plumber. So basically if a plumber just wants to work for a non union shop and never has the goal to become a master plumber he does not have to register to become a journeyman as long as he is employed by a master plumber. Also I might be wrong but I don't think I am but the DOB don't care about a union program they want everybody union and non union to be DOB registered journeyman for 2 years. Look it up on the website


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

NYC Plumber said:


> I agree also!


Thanks


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Lmp said:


> Yes now in NYC you have to be a registered journeyman with the DOB for 2 years included with the necessary 7 years with in 10 years to be allowed to take your master plumbers exam. But it is not required to work on plumbing if your employed by a licensed master plumber. So basically if a plumber just wants to work for a non union shop and never has the goal to become a master plumber he does not have to register to become a journeyman as long as he is employed by a master plumber. Also I might be wrong but I don't think I am but the DOB don't care about a union program they want everybody union and non union to be DOB registered journeyman for 2 years. Look it up on the website


That's right a union j-man is not a nyc registered j-man, and he needs recommendations from his master besides the required time


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

That is correct .


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## melkoj (Jul 24, 2011)

In Georgia a journeyman can not perform any work unless he is working under a master plumber which supervises his actions.


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