# Offset Grid Strainers



## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

So I'm working on a job building dorms at the University of Delaware. This is the first time I'm doing heavy commercial/industrial end of the trade & I've been taking in a lot ( mostly how things are run versus how I ran my own gig). My question is: " Does the use of offset grid strainers on ADA lavs eliminate the need for Lav Guards? I see where they remove any issue from the trap, but aren't the hot & cold supplies still required to be covered?"


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

mccmech said:


> So I'm working on a job building dorms at the University of Delaware. This is the first time I'm doing heavy commercial/industrial end of the trade & I've been taking in a lot ( mostly how things are run versus how I ran my own gig). My question is: " Does the use of offset grid strainers on ADA lavs eliminate the need for Lav Guards? I see where they remove any issue from the trap, but aren't the hot & cold supplies still required to be covered?"


Everything should be covered

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Plumbing Zone


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

ILPlumber said:


> Everything should be covered
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Plumbing Zone


 

I've always worked under that understanding. I'm trying to get my head around a possible mistake by the company I'm working for or a possible different requirement when offset grid strainers are introduced. Again, when I had my own gig I did things a certain way. I can't stop thinking that way even though I'm working for someone else, it's a cover yer ass attitude. I ask these questions & get blank stares & "I don't know " responses from people who are tenured in this arena. It drives me nuts 'cause I can't just say "F" it, it ain't my business.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

The only exception I have ever seen approved is when the knee space is enclosed by a cabinet.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

Or a porcelain shroud.
Zurn lavs: porcelain shroud, nice and big, easy to attach to the wall.
**You have to use a Zurn lav carrier 
Mansfield: easiest, plastic shroud, but I don't think they make em anymore.
A/S Murro lav: oh, my. Stay away. Nice looking lav, but a tiny shroud. They expect you to drill your 3/8" plastic lag bolt sleeve anchors in the wall at 45 degrees horizontally on the upper left and right side of the porcelain shroud. Try this on tile.
Also, if your specs call for solid supplies like mine do, you can't get the shroud on.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Layout I'm dealing with is as follows: gang bathroom environment with square tube iron counter base. Actual tops are corean with bowls fabricated into tops. Since there is no type of guard, as sometimes seen on cabinet setups, I can't believe that guards won't be needed for the supply lines at the very least. Like I staed earlier, this is my first time at this rodeo so I don't want to be an alarmist. I just think I am either ignorant of this part of the trade or someone really missed a cost that we will have to incur. I have been scratching my head a lot on this job based on how my employer is handling things.


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

newyorkcity said:


> Or a porcelain shroud.
> Zurn lavs: porcelain shroud, nice and big, easy to attach to the wall.
> **You have to use a Zurn lav carrier
> Mansfield: easiest, plastic shroud, but I don't think they make em anymore.
> ...


Exactly correct about the a/s museum we just finished had all a/s what a chore


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

*.*



mccmech said:


> Layout I'm dealing with is as follows: gang bathroom environment with square tube iron counter base. Actual tops are corean with bowls fabricated into tops. Since there is no type of guard, as sometimes seen on cabinet setups, I can't believe that guards won't be needed for the supply lines at the very least. Like I staed earlier, this is my first time at this rodeo so I don't want to be an alarmist. I just think I am either ignorant of this part of the trade or someone really missed a cost that we will have to incur. I have been scratching my head a lot on this job based on how my employer is handling things.


"actual tops are corean"
You couldn't get US made ones? :laughing: JK
How many lavs?


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, but they're South Corean! That said, two styles of tops, some double bowl & some triple bowl. All 4" center set single lever faucets, as expected, but I can't get my brain past the need for guards on the supplies. Based on all the head scratching I've been doing so far I don't know if the company just has morons running the job or if I'm just stuck on my personal preference.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

mccmech said:


> Yea, but they're South Corean....


What do countertops from the south side have to do with it? :jester:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

mccmech said:


> Layout I'm dealing with is as follows: gang bathroom environment with square tube iron counter base. Actual tops are corean with bowls fabricated into tops. Since there is no type of guard, as sometimes seen on cabinet setups, I can't believe that guards won't be needed for the supply lines at the very least. Like I staed earlier, this is my first time at this rodeo so I don't want to be an alarmist. I just think I am either ignorant of this part of the trade or someone really missed a cost that we will have to incur. I have been scratching my head a lot on this job based on how my employer is handling things.


The traps and supply's are required to be covered to protect from burn potential even if it sounds completely stupid. Look up Ada federal law it is downloadable if you have a lot of paper. The cover is the only way I know of that you can get around the covers.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

The offset strainers are not installed to protect against burns, they are there for ADA clearance issues. So a person in a wheel chair does not bang into the trap. For hot/cold protection the supplies and the tailpiece, and trap all are required to be covered.

If you look at the ADA covers they make two styles, one for standard straight down strainer, and one for offset strainers.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

SewerRatz said:


> The offset strainers are not installed to protect against burns, they are there for ADA clearance issues. So a person in a wheel chair does not bang into the trap. For hot/cold protection the supplies and the tailpiece, and trap all are required to be covered.
> 
> If you look at the ADA covers they make two styles, one for standard straight down strainer, and one for offset strainers.


Yes the offset grid is to give the clearance requirements to models that don't make it without its help. The point I was making was that the trap cover is there to protect the person in the wheelchair from burns. I find this rule to be rather far fetched, the burn possibility is almost impossible. One the grid drain gives the clearance required for a wheelchair two the trap temp should never get that hot because water temps are restricted low enough that burns would be impossible and third most Ada handy cap sinks now have mixing valves under the sink. So if we go to the worst case possibility if all the things that could go wrong do you still have the clearance which should do what it was designed to do.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

wyrickmech said:


> Yes the offset grid is to give the clearance requirements to models that don't make it without its help. The point I was making was that the trap cover is there to protect the person in the wheelchair from burns. I find this rule to be rather far fetched, the burn possibility is almost impossible. One the grid drain gives the clearance required for a wheelchair two the trap temp should never get that hot because water temps are restricted low enough that burns would be impossible and third most Ada handy cap sinks now have mixing valves under the sink. So if we go to the worst case possibility if all the things that could go wrong do you still have the clearance which should do what it was designed to do.


The clearance is so they do not "BANG" their legs into the trap. Even offset a large enough of a handicapped person legs still can touch the trap even when its offset. Also Handicapped people that do not have use of their legs, has more delicate skin from lack of movement and normal use like everyone else. And their hands are used much more to the point where the skin is tougher and can handle hotter temperatures. So if the Handicapped person's legs is resting against the trap while they are washing their hands, there is a possibility the skin will get damaged (burned) and since they have no feeling in their legs can get an infection. Hence the need for a trap cover of some sort.

It is not my opinion, it is ADA law.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> The clearance is so they do not "BANG" their legs into the trap. Even offset a large enough of a handicapped person legs still can touch the trap even when its offset. Also Handicapped people that do not have use of their legs, has more delicate skin from lack of movement and normal use like everyone else. And their hands are used much more to the point where the skin is tougher and can handle hotter temperatures. So if the Handicapped person's legs is resting against the trap while they are washing their hands, there is a possibility the skin will get damaged (burned) and since they have no feeling in their legs can get an infection. Hence the need for a trap cover of some sort.
> 
> It is not my opinion, it is ADA law.


That is correct to protect superman aka
Christopher Reed
any burns or other skin injury's is very liable to infection and death ! :furious:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

SewerRatz said:


> The clearance is so they do not "BANG" their legs into the trap. Even offset a large enough of a handicapped person legs still can touch the trap even when its offset. Also Handicapped people that do not have use of their legs, has more delicate skin from lack of movement and normal use like everyone else. And their hands are used much more to the point where the skin is tougher and can handle hotter temperatures. So if the Handicapped person's legs is resting against the trap while they are washing their hands, there is a possibility the skin will get damaged (burned) and since they have no feeling in their legs can get an infection. Hence the need for a trap cover of some sort.
> 
> It is not my opinion, it is ADA law.


I know what the law says but how warm can the surface of the trap get? How hot is the water? The law needs to focus on supply temps and clearances for large people. They used to make a handy cap sink by kohler it had a lot of clearance but it was costly. My point is there is got to be a better way to protect the handicap from the trap. Half the time a building that I have put covers on you can go back two months later and the cover will be missing. The only trap cover that comes close to solving this is the McGuire brand it has no splits and if you use there trap it fits nicely.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> I know what the law says but how warm can the surface of the trap get? How hot is the water? The law needs to focus on supply temps and clearances for large people. They used to make a handy cap sink by kohler it had a lot of clearance but it was costly. My point is there is got to be a better way to protect the handicap from the trap. Half the time a building that I have put covers on you can go back two months later and the cover will be missing. The only trap cover that comes close to solving this is the McGuire brand it has no splits and if you use there trap it fits nicely.


 I thought those 'cover' are for cushion against banging too hard.. and by the way.. how hot do the cold water supply get???


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> I thought those 'cover' are for cushion against banging too hard.. and by the way.. how hot do the cold water supply get???


No the are for protection from burning your leg in direct contact with the drain or the stop I think they cover the cold just because it would look bad if they didn't.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> No the are for protection from burning your leg in direct contact with the drain or the stop I think they cover the cold just because it would look bad if they didn't.


Not only that, the supplies are way in the back at wall.. don't think it can be touched with extra deep sink/countertop. I think its over designed by ablebodies engineers.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Not only that, the supplies are way in the back at wall.. don't think it can be touched with extra deep sink/countertop. I think its over engineered by ablebodies minds.


There is probably a case somewhere were somebody was left at a sink unattended and the water was too hot and there leg was at the write angle at the one moment that it could possibly burn them and the law has to protect all cases. I know I was downloading the Ada law every six months just to keep up with little changes. What really gets my goat about all of this is locals now think the national building code takes presidents over the Ada law. I tried to explain that the code they were reading is a set of standards not law. I was bound to follow the law not the standard when they were in conflict.


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

We follow the "barrier free" guidelines here. The book as been adopted by our code and its cheap think it costs around $10. Grab a copy of it. All the ADA rules and regulations are in it for any answers to your questions for future work. Well worth having at hand.
http://www.constructionbook.com/ada-code/?hcs=ADA


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

If you don't want to put the insulator kit's on just talk every GC/Arch./Eng. into using a top with a under mount or drop in bowl with a skirt,good luck with that


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

leakfree said:


> If you don't want to put the insulator kit's on just talk every GC/Arch./Eng. into using a top with a under mount or drop in bowl with a skirt,good luck with that


No I will put them on I just think they are poorly designed . The only one I have found that worked well was the pro guard from McGuire


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

We've been using the Tru-bro's lately,they seem to work pretty good,a little difficult to remove if you need to.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

leakfree said:


> We've been using the Tru-bro's lately,they seem to work pretty good,a little difficult to remove if you need to.


We have used that brand fro several years now the pins in the back have improved ,the first generation of tru-bro had a screw type pin that would not hold very good. That's why I prefer the McGuire pro gaurd it slips over the trap it is pliable and you simply roll the ends back to Tighten the slip nut then roll the cover back over the nut. It is solid with no splits.


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## ProblemSolver (Jun 29, 2013)

If it's visible, cover it. Just my opinion but, you said you were getting into commercial so you should always refer to you bibles (spec & submittals books). Spend a little more time in your submittals. You can find a lot of issues that well save you a headache later on when it comes time to set fixtures & when the architect/mechanical engineer does there punch list. If you see an issue or something just plain stupid, RFI it. You will always run into possible issues. I always see an Ada lavatory submitted with an offset grid strainer. Ada lavatories outlet/grid strainer opening is set towards the back of the lavatory. An offset grid strainer is pointless. Then when you set the fixture, the offset grid strainer pushes the p-trap close to the wall and your angle stops & when you put the lav guards on, it really looks like an electrician installed it. If you sent an RFI pointing out the issue and they still want it, you can rough in your lavatory differently. Watch for sinks with Ada cabinets with offset panels. I see a lot they submit sinks with outlets/strainer openings in the center versus the back. Even if you rough in your sanitary as high as you possibly can, is the p-trap going to clear the offset panel? Or did they submit a 8 1/2" or deeper sink when they should have submitted a 6 1/2". Every inch counts when it comes to Ada. Like I say it's just my opinion. Specs&submittals


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

I have a feeling someone is going to be upset you are using the "plumber protects the health of the nation" as your avatar. I believe that's been taken here for quite sometime. I suggest changing it quickly. Just some words of wisdom from a fellow forum surfer.


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## ProblemSolver (Jun 29, 2013)

It's a good pic. It gets the message across. Plumbing is a skilled trade and we are protecting the health of the nation. The importance of a plumbers position has been compared to a doctor or surgeon. We save lives. We should all post it on any profile pic we have on the Internet. Let people know who we really are. People are ignorant. A lot of people actually believe we just unclog toilets. I don't quite understand a man's feelings getting hurt or getting offended that someone else used the same pic. The man in the pic represents ALL plumbers, not just one plumber living out a fantasy that he could have that many followers. I mean I would understand maybe if he drew the picture or if he had copyrights to it or something. Having more than one personality really sucks.:laughing: I'll take you up on your tip and change it was the only thing I was going to replay until the other personality stepped in. He usually has valid points. One side just wants to say sure, no problem, changed. The other side wants to make/prove a point, call bull/someone out, start a war, debate, argue, etc. It's changed but, if anyone is curious, the pic is in my album. The pic is actually partially a joke. Read the bottom of the pic. Any union plumber will understand the ongoing battle between the plumbers & fitters. This was just a pic I revised to give to the fitter foreman that was under the impression that his position was more important/valuable. Feel free to use any of my photos. If I see it on someone's avatar, I'll laugh my  off and call you my twin(Twinkie) .


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

ProblemSolver said:


> It's a good pic. It gets the message across. Plumbing is a skilled trade and we are protecting the health of the nation. The importance of a plumbers position has been compared to a doctor or surgeon. We save lives. We should all post it on any profile pic we have on the Internet. Let people know who we really are. People are ignorant. A lot of people actually believe we just unclog toilets. I don't quite understand a man's feelings getting hurt or getting offended that someone else used the same pic. The man in the pic represents ALL plumbers, not just one plumber living out a fantasy that he could have that many followers. I mean I would understand maybe if he drew the picture or if he had copyrights to it or something. Having more than one personality really sucks.:laughing: I'll take you up on your tip and change it was the only thing I was going to replay until the other personality stepped in. He usually has valid points. One side just wants to say sure, no problem, changed. The other side wants to make/prove a point, call bull/someone out, start a war, debate, argue, etc. It's changed but, if anyone is curious, the pic is in my album. The pic is actually partially a joke. Read the bottom of the pic. Any union plumber will understand the ongoing battle between the plumbers & fitters. This was just a pic I revised to give to the fitter foreman that was under the impression that his position was more important/valuable. Feel free to use any of my photos. If I see it on someone's avatar, I'll laugh my  off and call you my twin(Twinkie) .


I agree, most people have no idea what we really do. But in here everyone knows. This forum is only for true plumbers, no handy hacks, diy'ers, or any other construction trade guy that thinks he knows how to plumb. I love it when a guy on a job who isn't a plumber tells me "I can do plumbing" "I did an entire bathroom in my house". Then asks me a question about how I would do something. As if to test my knowledge or extract information from me. I usually reply with yep I can frame a house too. 12 year old could read someone else's blueprint and do what it says. Your not allowed to draw the plans in your trade. I am in mine. Now go back to playing with your nail gun. Plumbing doesn't come with instructions. Except on huge jobs engineers lay out. We have to memorize what the code says to do, and meet its intentions.


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## Lja1821 (Jul 27, 2013)

mccmech said:


> Yea, but they're South Corean! That said, two styles of tops, some double bowl & some triple bowl. All 4" center set single lever faucets, as expected, but I can't get my brain past the need for guards on the supplies. Based on all the head scratching I've been doing so far I don't know if the company just has morons running the job or if I'm just stuck on my personal preference.


I also work in jersey for a large industrial/commercial co on joint base mdl currently building a hangar, as stated by the barrier free guidelines in nj we are required to cover even with offset grid strainers and skirts installed on lavs as well. Those are the rules and regs set forth by the guidelines and code is to follow it so its def has nothing to do with the guys running the job, they are just following the rules so they can avoid a good ass chewing from their superiors for failing to adhere to proper code.


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