# Small Ejector Pumps.



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

What brands do you guys use on such applications, such as a kitchen sink, you need to pump the waste up, and out?

:whistling2:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

liberty pumps

http://www.libertypumps.com/


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I like using something like this.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Air powered diaphragm pump. Duh!


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Here ya go...


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

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We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused. This thread sucketh


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

The ultimate under KS pump.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Liberty 404 or, 405...
I'll use the 405 on laundry drains.:thumbup:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Hartell, # LTP1


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Little Giants.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

house plumber said:


> Little Giants.
> 
> View attachment 5156


Why is the sink drain not tee'd into the vent pipe thus eliminating the s-trap?


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Matt said:


> Why is the sink drain not tee'd into the vent pipe thus eliminating the s-trap?


What he said?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Matt said:


> Why is the sink drain not tee'd into the vent pipe thus eliminating the s-trap?


 On those pumps the vent push's air out...thats why you cannot use a mechanical vent on those. You shouldn't make it a vent wet if it push's air out of the vent to work...you will reduce its pumping capacity. I would have used a couple of tee's and put a mechanical vent on top of them. I assume the pipe thats tied into the top of that 2" combintaion is a similar fixture on the opposing wall and they are using one pump to serve both.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

looking at it again it seems you could have piped both fixtures into the vent portion and then used the original inlet to loop back above the highest fixtures rim and tye back into the vent making a loop and eliminating the s-trap and the mechanical vent.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> On those pumps the vent push's air out...thats why you cannot use a mechanical vent on those. You shouldn't make it a vent wet if it push's air out of the vent to work...you will reduce its pumping capacity. I would have used a couple of tee's and put a mechanical vent on top of them. I assume the pipe thats tied into the top of that 2" combintaion is a similar fixture on the opposing wall and they are using one pump to serve both.


Are you drunk?:blink:


The only air the vent _pushes_ out is the air that is slowly displaced as the pit is filling.

That install would be a non-code compliant here.

[******* voice] Whatcha need to do is get ridda that vent and stack 2 tees wiff an AAV on top of em. UH-HUH, Thas right[/******* voice]


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Matt said:


> Are you drunk?:blink:
> 
> 
> The only air the vent _pushes_ out is the air that is slowly displaced as the pit is filling.
> ...


 You dont know what your talking about. It displaces equal air to how much water your filling it with.......and the way you want it piped its vent would be full of water when the sinks dumped....not allowing the air displacement and either not work at all or have poor pumping performance.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> You dont know what your talking about. It displaces equal air to how much water your filling it with.......and the way you want it piped its vent would be full of water when the sinks dumped....not allowing the air displacement and either not work at all or have poor pumping performance.


I do.

The drain pipe and the vent pipe are 2 different pipes. Look at the photo.The drain pipe shoulda had a tee in it that the p-trap outlet woulda hit. The top of this tee would have been looped back to the vent pipe. 6" above the flood rim (in the wall), of course. This job was roughed in wrong and it went downhill from there.

You know I'm right. But I will argue. I have some time. The Bachelor doesn't come on for 33 minutes.:laughing:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Watchout Matt, you are arguing with the guy who argued against the law of physics in the "psi" thread, that was a hoot.:laughing:


the master said:


> 100 psi in a 12" pipe is not going to move 11,000 pounds of mass. You do realize thats over 5 tons dont you?
> 
> 
> ...if you filled a 12"x6" pipe up with water and capped one end and placed a ram in the other end and on top of the ram you placed 5.5 tons of mass......what would the pressure be in the pipe? YOUR saying it would be 100 psi. I dont think so.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

service guy said:


> Watchout Matt, you are arguing with the guy who argued against the law of physics in the "psi" thread, that was a hoot.:laughing:


i had forgotten that. We need a classic threads area.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Matt said:


> I do.
> 
> The drain pipe and the vent pipe are 2 different pipes. Look at the photo.The drain pipe shoulda had a tee in it that the p-trap outlet woulda hit. The top of this tee would have been looped back to the vent pipe. 6" above the flood rim (in the wall), of course. This job was roughed in wrong and it went downhill from there.
> 
> You know I'm right. But I will argue. I have some time. The Bachelor doesn't come on for 33 minutes.:laughing:


I'll have to find the manufacture specs. We put these in alot. It was done according to their specs.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> On those pumps the vent push's air out...thats why you cannot use a mechanical vent on those. You shouldn't make it a vent wet if it push's air out of the vent to work...you will reduce its pumping capacity. I would have used a couple of tee's and put a mechanical vent on top of them. I assume the pipe thats tied into the top of that 2" combintaion is a similar fixture on the opposing wall and they are using one pump to serve both.


It's all 1.5" and yes it's catching an additional lab sink on the other side.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

service guy said:


> Watchout Matt, you are arguing with the guy who argued against the law of physics in the "psi" thread, that was a hoot.:laughing:


....since we are on a different subject now...:laughing: A broken clocks right twice a day and nobodys perfect but it was still a hypothetical and theres not a water ram that operates with HIGH reliability at those pressures...water is too viscous


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Matt said:


> I do.
> 
> The drain pipe and the vent pipe are 2 different pipes. Look at the photo.The drain pipe shoulda had a tee in it that the p-trap outlet woulda hit. The top of this tee would have been looped back to the vent pipe. 6" above the flood rim (in the wall), of course. This job was roughed in wrong and it went downhill from there.
> 
> You know I'm right. But I will argue. I have some time. The Bachelor doesn't come on for 33 minutes.:laughing:


 Try reading post number 14 that I made explaining it could be done with a loop vent....but its already roughed in and the only option is rip it out or install a mechanical vent. Mechanical vents are legal in Fl as i understand. My first response was to say you cant just plug off the inlet and run everythign into the vent......the pump will not work like that..it must be looped some kind of way to allow the circulation of air. The pipe sizes are too small to do it any other way.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

You cant use mechanical vents on these pumps. This is the closest thing for specs I can find right now. Loop vents are illegal too.

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/pdf/01041.pdf


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Try reading post number 14 that I made explaining it could be done with a loop vent....but its already roughed in and the only option is rip it out or install a mechanical vent. Mechanical vents are legal in Fl as i understand. My first response was to say you cant just plug off the inlet and run everythign into the vent......the pump will not work like that..it must be looped some kind of way to allow the circulation of air. The pipe sizes are too small to do it any other way.




Somebody needs a hug.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

house plumber said:


> You cant use mechanical vents on these pumps. This is the closest thing for specs I can find right now. Loop vents are illegal too.
> 
> http://www.plumbersurplus.com/pdf/01041.pdf


You can damn sure can use one on the inlet,aslong as you have a seperate vent for the container. gee wiz guys:laughing:
Rockstar I have no comment for you...your as they say..a lost cause lil man.:blink:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> You can damn sure can use one on the inlet,aslong as you have a seperate vent for the container. gee wiz guys:laughing:
> Rockstar I have no comment for you...your as they say..a lost cause lil man.:blink:


Ok here I found it. The reason it was done that way was because the sinks were not back to back. They were offset from each other by about 2 feet. So I had to go between drawers to get to the pump. And being an orthopedic rehab center they need all the space for drawers that they can so they wouldn't shorten any of them down. It passed inspection, it was in lakeland, Protech probably knows the inspector. I didnt have enough depth to drop straight down with the ptrap its self going right into the pump. http://www.lgpc.com/ProductFiles/OM/993167.pdf


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> since we are on a different subject now...:laughing: A broken clocks right twice a day and nobodys perfect but it was still a hypothetical and theres not a water ram that operates with HIGH reliability at those pressures...water is too viscous


What the fugg are you talkin about man? Are you serious or is this just a personal attack?

I was slow from Nov of 08 until around March of 09. It has been steady since then. Now it has gone from steady to busy. I'm not big time compared to some. Compared to you, I prolly am.

Back to topic.

Do manufacturers instruction trump code in Florida House? Here they do not. I think they do in certain states or areas though.

I always think of right or wrong as compared to my code.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Matt said:


> What the fugg are you talkin about man? Are you serious or is this just a personal attack?
> 
> I was slow from Nov of 08 until around March of 09. It has been steady since then. Now it has gone from steady to busy. I'm not big time compared to some. Compared to you, I prolly am.
> 
> ...


 Thats wan't directed at you mr. sensitive:laughing: But I'm going to erase part of it for the person it was directed at even tho he hit me first...relax big buster:whistling2:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Yes Matt, Manufacture specs rule over code.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> ....since we are on a different subject now...:laughing: A broken clocks right twice a day and nobodys perfect but it was still a hypothetical and theres not a water ram that operates with HIGH reliability at those pressures...water is too viscous


easy big guy, I was just picking on you because you are the most argumentative person on here, so that makes you a target. I like your posts. At least you got the balls to argue your point, even though you're not always right. Heck, NONE of us are always right. I make mistakes every damn day, and I'll be the first to admit that.:yes:


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> You can damn sure can use one* on the inlet,aslong as you have a seperate vent for the container*


TM is correct here. At least I think he is.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

service guy said:


> easy big guy, I was just picking on you because you are the most argumentative person on here, so that makes you a target. I like your posts. At least you got the balls to argue your point, even though you're not always right. Heck, NONE of us are always right. I make mistakes every damn day, and I'll be the first to admit that.:yes:


 I'm right 99.9 percent of the time.:jester: The other.1 % i didn't understand the question sir.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I guess I could have used an aav with a santee instead of the 90. But I was looking at like this, You're venting the tank not the plumbing system. Hooking the lav up to the tank is similar to an indirect waste. That was my theory in the whole thing which to me is right.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

house plumber said:


> I guess I could have used an aav with a santee instead of the 90. But I was looking at like this, You're venting the tank not the plumbing system. Hooking the lav up to the tank is similar to an indirect waste. That was my theory in the whole thing which to me is right.


Why put the trap if your not going to provide a vent to protect its seal.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Why put the trap if your not going to provide a vent to protect its seal.


The tank could still smell. I bet you could go there today which is about a year later and the trap is still wet.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

house plumber said:


> The tank could still smell. I bet you could go there today which is about a year later and the trap is still wet.


 I agree but the purpose of not using s-traps is to protect the trap seal. Your hookup doesn't do that. Does an s-trap work somtimes without a problem? Sure it will and you just proved it. I just wouldn't have done it that way and it wouldn't be approved like that if the building was new here.....and neither would the mechanical vent unless it was a remodel but they wouldn't allow the s-trap straight out like you have it. I would think it might gurgle and goan after you used it,but if it doesn't then rock on :thumbup:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I agree but the purpose of not using s-traps is to protect the trap seal. Your hookup doesn't do that. Does an s-trap work somtimes without a problem? Sure it will and you just proved it. I just wouldn't have done it that way and it wouldn't be approved like that if the building was new here.....and neither would the mechanical vent unless it was a remodel but they wouldn't allow the s-trap straight out like you have it. I would think it might gurgle and goan after you used it,but if it doesn't then rock on :thumbup:


I understand what an s trap does. but under the circumstances I had to deal with I made it work and the inspector had no problems and we had no call backs on it. :thumbsup:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Another thing. If I would have used a santee with an aav on top then there are the few that would say oh man what a hack. did nacho do that? that guy used an aav. what an *******. So does it really matter what i used?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

house plumber said:


> Another thing. If I would have used a santee with an aav on top then there are the few that would say oh man what a hack. did nacho do that? that guy used an aav. what an *******. So does it really matter what i used?


 I wouldn't have said those mean things to you.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I wouldn't have said those mean things to you.


Only cuz you're scared. :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

house plumber said:


> Little Giants.


Hmmmm:whistling2:

I don't care much for those Little Giants...

They have a strainer on the inlet that is very susceptible to to clogging and causing the sink to back up...

If I ever did install one I would make it a point to remove the strainer.
4 screws in the plate on the top just above the inlet...

Interesting pipes there...


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Hmmmm:whistling2:
> 
> I don't care much for those Little Giants...
> 
> ...


Oh no. Not this again...:laughing:


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

house plumber said:


> Oh no. Not this again...:laughing:


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Btw,
You could have eliminated the S-trap by offsetting the fixture drop (2 1-1/2" 45's), tie-in at the same point that you did but with the p-trap down at the level of the inlet to the sump.
That'd comply with the instructions. The way you ran it does not. (But we won't mention it to your inspector. :whistling2:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Do they allow you to mix DWV with pressure fittings?

Not allowed here.

I'm just saying.....


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Miguel said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> Btw,
> You could have eliminated the S-trap by offsetting the fixture drop (2 1-1/2" 45's), tie-in at the same point that you did but with the p-trap down at the level of the inlet to the sump.
> That'd comply with the instructions. The way you ran it does not. (But we won't mention it to your inspector. :whistling2:


You cant run two traps on an 1.5" arm. Thats two fixtures into one inlet with no vent on a 1.5" arm and both are s-traps:whistling2:Lucky i;m not inspecting it and i would consider myself a softball on code interpretation,meaning i would let the plumber getaway with minor things but thats goin to far even for me:whistling2: And i'm considered a ******* hack


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> You cant run two traps on an 1.5" arm. Thats two fixtures into one inlet with no vent on a 1.5" arm and both are s-traps:whistling2:Lucky i;m not inspecting it and i would consider myself a softball on code interpretation,meaning i would let the plumber getaway with minor things but thats goin to far even for me:whistling2: And i'm considered a ******* hack


Yes you can mix fittings. But you cant use tee's, 90's, 45's that are pressure on DWV. As for the pumps, they don't even tie into the sanitary what so ever. They dump indirect into the mopsink. I'll give protech the address and he can go verify. Bayside reminded me this, this morning.
Get over it, it works. It works fine. A year and a half with no call backs so no sweat off my nuts. I bet most of you can't say that.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I haven't had a call to that particular job either..:laughing:

I don't think any inspector is going to fail a pressure MPT fitting. It's the only pressure fitting in the pic


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

house plumber said:


> Yes you can mix fittings. But you cant use tee's, 90's, 45's that are pressure on DWV. As for the pumps, they don't even tie into the sanitary what so ever. They dump indirect into the mopsink. I'll give protech the address and he can go verify. Bayside reminded me this, this morning.
> Get over it, it works. It works fine. A year and a half with no call backs so no sweat off my nuts. I bet most of you can't say that.


 I never said anything about mixing fitting.:blink: Dont expect a christmas card next year either:laughing: Ever go to Yirbor city?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I never said anything about mixing fitting.:blink: Dont expect a christmas card next year either:laughing: Ever go to Yirbor city?


I know you didn't say anything about the fittings. Ron did but I quoted you for some reason. No Ybor is rough. A lot of shootings there. About 3 weeks ago there were 2 shootings in 2 nights. Alot of wanna be gangsters hang out there.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Matt said:


> I haven't had a call to that particular job either..:laughing:
> 
> I don't think any inspector is going to fail a pressure MPT fitting. It's the only pressure fitting in the pic


I see 3 myself unless that 2 x 1-1/2 bushing is really a DWV fitting.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

HP, I just noticed the "S-Trap Superstar" thing. :laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Ron said:


> I see 3 myself unless that 2 x 1-1/2 bushing is really a DWV fitting.


I see 2 pressure MPT fittings. They are a far superior product. Kudos to HP for using them.

A 2 x 1.5 pressure bushing would be sticking out of that hub about an inch.

Either way. Pressure fittings are fine with me on drainage, unless we are talking change in direction. 

I like pressure couplings and MPT's


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I dont see a stop valve or a union on the pump's outlet. How do you get to the faucet to replace it? Remove everything? FAIL


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Matt said:


> I see 2 pressure MPT fittings. They are a far superior product. Kudos to HP for using them.
> 
> A 2 x 1.5 pressure bushing would be sticking out of that hub about an inch.


I agree, I like to use pressure couplings on my pvc drain systems, as they hold way better than short dwv couplings.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

DWV on all the waste & venting, pressure fittings on the discharge. 90°'s, 45°, everything.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Sure looks like a hex on the top of the bushing to me. Are not DWV bushing rounded?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I use a pressure fittings like 45's,couplings,Mip adapters but its lega where I use them and how i use them so dont worry about it.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron said:


> Sure looks like a hex on the top of the bushing to me. Are not DWV bushing rounded?


 Not all of them are round,some are hex.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I dont see a stop valve or a union on the pump's outlet. How do you get to the faucet to replace it? Remove everything? FAIL


I actually went back in and cut tee's in with a hose bibb on it so you can drain them down to work on it.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Ron said:


> I see 3 myself unless that 2 x 1-1/2 bushing is really a DWV fitting.


pressure mip, dwv bushing and its on the vent


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Ron said:


> Sure looks like a hex on the top of the bushing to me. Are not DWV bushing rounded?


some are, some arent


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Good to know info, in case they make us switch from ABS to PVC cause or the rise in ABS prices.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

i've had helpers glue the round bushings in backwards before. :furious:


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