# appealing plumbing exam test score



## George (Jun 26, 2009)

*a a ttt*

a a ttt


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

George said:


> I have taken the Illinois plumbing exam 3 times and have failed by a few points only on the written portion. The practical parts I always score very high on. The last test I received an 85 on the drawing, an 86 on the practical, and a 60 on the written. To pass you must have an average of 75 or greater. My average was 77. However, you cannot have any grade of 60 or less. I am not a union member, never was given the opportunity. The test is given at the local and it is a well known fact that the non union people have a vey low pass rate. Has any one appealed their score? What did you state in your letter as your basis for your complaint? Each time I take this test, I am confident in my answers. Any suggestions
> 
> Thanks
> Joe


 I am and was non-union and I passed the first time through. I was tested at the local down in Urbana.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

How exactly does union affiliation or non-affiliation prevent you from correctly answering softball multiple choice questions?

Most guys fail the drawing or practical. After your first fail, you should have met with the chief plumbing inspector to go over your test. 

3 fails is a bad deal. Read the license law. You will find it in the front of the green book you didn't study. 

I get agitated when folks get accusatory of the fine folks at the Savoy hall. YOU failed. You answered wrong. Non-unions guys fail due to the fact alot of them are recieving sub-standard training. If any training at all.

:furious::furious::furious:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

You were too slow George. Once you get quoted, it's forever.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*george*

what's to appeal? how should i say this? ok, STUDY STUDY STUDY. i took the test in indiana in summer of 89. all of our proctors were union. i had more hair then. i looked like zztop. nobody else did. i read the directions. we had 2 practical parts. 14% of my score was on looks. on copper i buffed the pipe with fine steel wool. used a small shaping file to clean up solder and flux. the guy next to me said that the pipe was so shiny he could see his face in it. the proctors all came to look at it, then me. i just smiled.........on lead joint i took it a metal shop and had them cut it with a chop saw. cleaned bell and stub with a power brush. made it look nice. i got a 100% on both practicals and high 90s on each written parts. i'm not in the union, either. let me repeat. STUDY STUDY STUDY. have at it, son. breid


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*george george george*

what's "a a ttt"?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Go to page (LC/750-15) in your code book.

Look at 750.320 f)

An apprentice plumber who has served an apprenticeship under the supervision/sponsorship of an Illinois licensed plumber and has failed the examination three times shall be called before the Department and Board of Plumbing Examiners to determine compliance with the requirements for supervision of apprentices. The employer/sponsor must accompany the apprentice at such meeting. An examinee who fails to appear shall be ineligible for admission to the next plumber's license examination and subject to license revocation. An employer/sponsor who fails to appear shall be subject to license revocation.

Your code book (It's that thing you wedged under the un-level table leg) looks like this:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

When I took my test, the union pass rate was 80% and non-union pass rate was 20% for first time exam takers. The union was only 80% because a lot of combined locals make their pipefitter apprentices get their plumbing license to journey out. So there are pipefitters who never plumbed a day in their life, taking the test. A lot of those guys failed the first time, bringing the union average down. The non-union was so low because most non-union apprentices never get any class time or test preparation.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Go to page (LC/750-15) in your code book.
> 
> Look at 750.320 f)
> 
> ...


 Thats a buncha board members trying to feel important......The word "subject" tells the story.....In other words we will take your license and make you hire an attorney to get it back if we want. Thats what "subject" means. It takes alot for a judge to take a mans living away from him...or atleast it does here in Al. We are a "right to work" state. Basically its up to a judge and the judges usually side with the common worker man if all he's really acused of is "working" with or wothout a license in the trades. You'll atleast get one or 2 warnings before they will fine you.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Thats a buncha board members trying to feel important......The word "subject" tells the story.....In other words we will take your license and make you hire an attorney to get it back if we want. Thats what "subject" means. It takes alot for a judge to take a mans living away from him...or atleast it does here in Al. We are a "right to work" state. Basically its up to a judge and the judges usually side with the common worker man if all he's really acused of is "working" with or wothout a license in the trades. You'll atleast get one or 2 warnings before they will fine you.


It's a bunch of board members doing their job. If you can't pass in three tries, you and your sponsor better be prepared to explain why. Apprentices are supposed to be apprenticed, learning their trade. It means you aren't learning and your sponsor is not teaching.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Thats a buncha board members trying to feel important......The word "subject" tells the story.....In other words we will take your license and make you hire an attorney to get it back if we want. Thats what "subject" means. It takes alot for a judge to take a mans living away from him...or atleast it does here in Al. We are a "right to work" state. Basically its up to a judge and the judges usually side with the common worker man if all he's really acused of is "working" with or wothout a license in the trades. You'll atleast get one or 2 warnings before they will fine you.


No warnings.

It basically says: If you don't do this and this. You will have your apprentice license revoked. Permanently. Find another career, thanks for playing.

No attorney in their right mind would take a case of this nature. The code is very clear.

It has zippo to do with being a right to work state, judges, or the courts.

It is by IL Dept. of Public Health. If you don't do as they say. You will be revoked. No warnings no judges. REVOKED. The fines are leveed by the Dept. of Public Health also. No courts, lawyers, or judges.

Now let's talk fines for unlicesned plumbing.

First offense: $1000

Second offense: $3000

Third and sebsequent offenses: $5000

But wait, there's more. Criminal charges:

First offense: class B misdeamenor $500 crimnal penalty

Second and subsequent offenses: class A misdeamenor $1000 crimnal penalty

Also, forget getting a driver's license if you don't pay your fines. 

They will also garnish your wages at your new drain cleaning job.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Also in Illinois the plumbing licensing law, if they catch you advertising with a false plumbing license number or are not displaying your license properly in the ad. They will contact the phone company to have the phone number with the offending ad turned off, till you correctly display a Illinois Pluming License number in the ad. They do not screw around in this state.


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## HandsomeMike (Feb 8, 2009)

I am a second year UA apprentice in Missouri and I wish they were more strengent like Illinois. If nothing else just to cut down on al the side work. we have close to one fourth of our plumbers on the bench.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> No warnings.
> 
> It basically says: If you don't do this and this. You will have your apprentice license revoked. Permanently. Find another career, thanks for playing.
> 
> ...


 I was talking about the plumber who was training the apprentice. just because some dumb butt takes the test 3 times they are not going to revoke a master plumbers license. If they can do that I'd move tomm. Especially knowing what the news says about IL politics.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I wish we could get somthing like that going on here in Fl. We have laws but enforcement is a complete joke.



ILPlumber said:


> No warnings.
> 
> It basically says: If you don't do this and this. You will have your apprentice license revoked. Permanently. Find another career, thanks for playing.
> 
> ...


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> No warnings.
> 
> It basically says: If you don't do this and this. You will have your apprentice license revoked. Permanently. Find another career, thanks for playing.
> 
> ...


Yup, Minnesota is the same way. Right to work? Never heard of that one before, wtf? Get caught plumbing without a license here and you're done.:thumbsup:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Protech said:


> I wish we could get somthing like that going on here in Fl. We have laws but enforcement is a complete joke.


Got a case right now, talked to the DBPR last week. This is this guys second time this year acting as a GC and not paying subs. Pocketed over 40k from the bank. It is a misdemeanor the first time, felony the second. I have been promised, this guy will be getting a free ride to jail.:yes: Took me for 2,500 back in april.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> Yup, Minnesota is the same way. Right to work? Never heard of that one before, wtf? Get caught plumbing without a license here and you're done.:thumbsup:


 And your done huh? I'm sure the court house is overflowing up in MN and IL. just like they are here and in Florida.:thumbsup: They can make all the laws they want but enforcing them is a different story and then once they catch a guy whos obviously broke WTF you gonna take?...the guys just gonna go get on welfare. You cant get blood from a turnip no matter how hard you sqeeze it. It just boggs the court system down. Its just a method of threat...its not stopping most people its just not allowing them to advertise their handyman service. Here they could careless and they even advertise and no license is required to put an ad in the local newspaper,nail boards to telephone poles,etc,etc. Check with your local district attorney and see how many people has actually been caught and then how many actually paid the fine and how many did jail time. take that number and compare it to how much illegal plumbing you believe or know thats going on.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Got a case right now, talked to the DBPR last week. This is this guys second time this year acting as a GC and not paying subs. Pocketed over 40k from the bank. It is a misdemeanor the first time, felony the second. I have been promised, this guy will be getting a free ride to jail.:yes: Took me for 2,500 back in april.


 yeah because he wasn't paying the subs....if he would have paid the subs everything would be business as usuall. He's going to jail because if the subs arn't paid the homeowner has to pay the subs or be subject to a lien by the workman. So its the homeowners who get ripped in the end. here if a contractor doesn't pay you ...you can put a lien on the homeowners property until the contractor or the homeowner pays you....if they refuse to pay then they can never sell the house or get a bank loan on the property...or ever take a building permit out.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> Yup, Minnesota is the same way. Right to work? Never heard of that one before, wtf? Get caught plumbing without a license here and you're done.:thumbsup:


 A right to work state is a state that basically refuses to put a person in jail if his only offense is working without a license............I said only. Now if he is making a public hazzard then thats different. For example...if they catch you using old garden hose and installing it for pipe...you would go to jail.....if your caught installing cpvc then you would get fined but never go to jail.....if you didn't pay the fine and owned any property they will auction it for you!!!!A warrant would be issued and you would appear back before the judge...you might spend a day in jail waiting on the judge if you had no money to bond out. Then you would go to court and the judge will sentence you to pick up trash on the highway or cut grass in a grave yard. Thats what they do to ya here and thats a far cry from prison or felony's for jacklegging.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Get caught installing pex and you get the death penalty. Use a sharkbite and get your hand chopped off!!! Hey thats a good idea......get caught plumbing without a license and they should just chop your hand off. That would stop most of them from re-offending.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Right to work doesn't have a thing to do with licensing. It addresses folks being forced to pay union dues when they just want to work.


*Right-to-work laws* are statutes enforced in twenty-two U.S. states, mostly in the southern or western U.S., allowed under provisions of the Taft-Hartley Act, which prohibit agreements between trade unions and employers making membership or payment of union dues or "fees" a condition of employment, either before or after hiring.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Right to work doesn't have a thing to do with licensing. It addresses folks being forced to pay union dues when they just want to work.
> 
> 
> *Right-to-work laws* are statutes enforced in twenty-two U.S. states, mostly in the southern or western U.S., allowed under provisions of the Taft-Hartley Act, which prohibit agreements between trade unions and employers making membership or payment of union dues or "fees" a condition of employment, either before or after hiring.


 I dont care what the internet says about it......I live here and I pay attention to what goes on. The local news would be all over that. I bet they haven't arrested anyone here for working without a license in years here. Every now and then they might get sombody and fine them but its by chance. We have alot of violent crime here and the jails are full,we dont have room for people who commit crimes with a pipe wrench trying to make money. You get a guy screaming around here that he was just trying to provide for his family while he's in handcuffs and you would have a riot....especially when they let violent criminals go everyday and the excuse is "WE DONT HAVE ROOM FOR THEM". See how well that goes over. Thats one reason why the D.A says we can use deadly force to protect our PROPERTY. Not your life but your lawn mower......you can shoot someone here legally for attempting to steal a lawnmower!!!!! Its different here my friend....I dont know if you have ever been way down south but things beat to a different drum. You would be surprised to what goes on around here.....and jackleg plumbers are just the beginning


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Right to work laws vary from state to state. here there are so many old laws on th books they can have a reason to enforce or not to enforce and give you 3 resons as to why for each of them. it comes down to the community and their willingness to proscecute the offense. here they do not wish to entertain that kinda case. I'm sure of enough people complained and got ripped off by a guy they would do somthing but they would do that even if you had a license. It all comes back to enforcement and thats non-existant. They laughed at me when I called the city and told them 10 listings in the newspaper for cheap plumbing work. I complained and said "You guys make me buy a license....why not them" The answer was..."If we catch them we will" I asked when the last time they caught anyone and she couldn't answer me. I was later told that they dont have the time nor the resources to initiate the investigations on their own and its not priority. WTF????? But its priority to collect from me every year.....you can bet on that!!! The idea sounds good to enforce the license laws but actually doing it is a different matter all together. I wish they would do somthing about it. I pay my share...thats why I get mad and call about the situation. I'm on your side ILPLUMBER.....but my citys not and I'm just explaining that to you. I've complained about it for 25 years and my father complained before me for 40 years.....nothings changed and I'm not gonna hold my breath until it does.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

*§ 25-7-1. Declaration of Policy.* 
The right to live involves the right to work.

This is what I copied from the 1st sentence of the law in Alabama. Now what do you think a lawyer can do with that 1st sentence in court. They have and will use it. I'm not saying its applies to a license situation......its a touchy subject here as you can see. lawyers here are good......ask Chevron and A.O Smith water heaters.....both had their azz handed to them by lawyers here.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

What happened to AOSmith there?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I would reply to the 2 posts you made above but, I don't know where to start. 

Right to work laws are basically the same state to state. The jist of them is anyone has a "right to work" without having to pay union dues. Thats it...

They were put in place in to break the unions. That is the one and only reason. They have ZIPPO to do with license law. 

Let me re-iterate my point. Right to work laws have no effect on license laws.

zippo
zero
zilch
nada
nill
none
bullets added for extra effect

IL is not a right to work state.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> And your done huh? I'm sure the court house is overflowing up in MN and IL. just like they are here and in Florida.:thumbsup: They can make all the laws they want but enforcing them is a different story and then once they catch a guy whos obviously broke WTF you gonna take?...the guys just gonna go get on welfare. You cant get blood from a turnip no matter how hard you sqeeze it. It just boggs the court system down. Its just a method of threat...its not stopping most people its just not allowing them to advertise their handyman service. Here they could careless and they even advertise and no license is required to put an ad in the local newspaper,nail boards to telephone poles,etc,etc. Check with your local district attorney and see how many people has actually been caught and then how many actually paid the fine and how many did jail time. take that number and compare it to how much illegal plumbing you believe or know thats going on.



You're sure making a huge stink about this and I can guess why. Alabama must be extremely lax enforcing it's license laws. Sorry Master but you're wrong about other places. You don't dare advertise plumbing without a license in this state, I'm not sure about Il. but here you may as well have your hand chopped off if you're caught, it would be nicer.
The Master Plumbers in this state take care of each other, you just try advertising or get caught working without a license and yes, you're DONE.:thumbsup:
I've turned in my share of them and they were Done within a week, gone, kapoot. No longer doing plumbing in my area. Our system works pretty fast, sorry your doesn't.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> *§ 25-7-1. Declaration of Policy.*
> The right to live involves the right to work.
> 
> This is what I copied from the 1st sentence of the law in Alabama. Now what do you think a lawyer can do with that 1st sentence in court. They have and will use it. I'm not saying its applies to a license situation......its a touchy subject here as you can see. lawyers here are good......ask Chevron and A.O Smith water heaters.....both had their azz handed to them by lawyers here.



It means nothing. It doesn't give anyone a right to contract without a license. If that's not what you're talking about then what are you talking about?:blink:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TM must be bored. Got the pot-stirring stick back out. :yes:

I think I'm done. I won't argue just for arguments sake


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ok I have an update on the working without a license thingy. Taled to a fellow plumber today about the subject. He said he has first hand recent experience on the subject. My friend bid on a job......went by the house a week later and saw a drain cleaning co there un-loading pipe and fittings for the sewer replacement. The drain guy does not have a plumbing license.....only a business license to clean drains. Ok my friend called the inspectors and they went to the job and caught the drain cleaner replacing the sewer......they handed him a ticket with a court date on it. last week the drain cleaner went before the judge. The judge threw it out of court and made the comment that "The court does not have the time nor the resources to prosecute a person attempting to provide for their family"........The two inspectors's jaw dropped to the floor as well as my friend's. Welcome to SWEET HOME ALABAMA BOYS!!!!!!!! Just because a law is on the books doesn't mean the judge will enforce it. So after that do you think those two state inspectors are going to waste the time on the next guy???? No way.....they were pissed and theres not going to be anything done about it......its been happening for years. Now let a guy from out of town come here or a business from out of town and get charged.....They would get the book thrown at them!!!! I've seen it! I'm not just trash talking here folks. Now if you do not have a business license AT ALL thats a different story.....but they will fine you 50 times before they jail you.....jail is way overcrowed....only way you would get thrown in jail is to piss the judge off by being a smartazz in court. OH by the way....They didn't even make the drain cleaner pay court costs,a fine or anything....i was very surprised no court costs.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> It means nothing. It doesn't give anyone a right to contract without a license. If that's not what you're talking about then what are you talking about?:blink:


I'm not saying it gives the right to contract without a license. My point is this. In Alabama if you do not present yourself as "IN business" and theres no written paperwork...only verbal agreements with a person and a homeowner.....then the city and the state will not do ANYTHING about any problems that arise out of you hiring a NOBODY to do your plumbing. I like how everone thinks there state is so special......I was watching tv the other night and the prisoners in INDIANA have freakin cable tv in their jail cells......check for yourself.....whada joke!!!!! The justice system runs MONEY just like the code book does.....why do you think codes are revised and deleted......I know why.... Some contractor has a big project coming up and they can save 100,000 by changing the code around. Biloxi MS did it with the casino's......and its done everywhere,its just not talked about.
I also understand that codes change for good reason also......i'm not crazy!


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I'm not saying it gives the right to contract without a license. My point is this. In Alabama if you do not present yourself as "IN business" and theres no written paperwork...only verbal agreements with a person and a homeowner.....then the city and the state will not do ANYTHING about any problems that arise out of you hiring a NOBODY to do your plumbing. I like how everone thinks there state is so special......I was watching tv the other night and the prisoners in INDIANA have freakin cable tv in their jail cells......check for yourself.....whada joke!!!!! The justice system runs MONEY just like the code book does.....why do you think codes are revised and deleted......I know why.... Some contractor has a big project coming up and they can save 100,000 by changing the code around. Biloxi MS did it with the casino's......and its done everywhere,its just not talked about.
> I also understand that codes change for good reason also......i'm not crazy!



I don't think anyone said their state was special, just how their state works in regards to license laws. So Alabama doesn't give a sh*t, Minnesota and Il. does. License laws here are very strict.
The job you described above, my regional state inspector would have fried them for lunch, burped them out and then start looking for seconds. They don't get away with it in this state. If that makes Minnesota special then I'm sure glad I ended up here.:thumbsup:

That's all.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> I don't think anyone said their state was special, just how their state works in regards to license laws. So Alabama doesn't give a sh*t, Minnesota and Il. does. License laws here are very strict.
> The job you described above, my regional state inspector would have fried them for lunch, burped them out and then start looking for seconds. They don't get away with it in this state. If that makes Minnesota special then I'm sure glad I ended up here.:thumbsup:
> 
> That's all.


 And just like I said...I bet the jails and prisons are overflowing in MN and IL with people locked up for replacing a sewer without a permit or replacing a toilet without a business license. Yep just bursting at the seams. The regional state inspector would only be a witness the prosecution brings before the court.....if the prosecution doesn't wanna prosecute or the judge fails to sentence....then the inspector is up the creek....he cannot take you home with him and lock you up can he? Does the plumbing board have a jail there?


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

IL is correct right to work involves not paying union dues etc.

There is one thing good about it. You seldom see wrongful termination suits in right to work states. They do exist but they are very difficult to hold up in court unless your civil rights have been clearly violated. IE sexual harassment, physically handicap, skin color etc..

TM I am not discrediting your points but the laws are very clearly written.

As far as the testing goes I agree with IL also. Our state exams are no walk in the park and require a ton of study hence such a high failure rate. I always laugh when I sit for a state exam and there are always a couple of knuckle heads just unwrapping there books at the day of the test. Funny they always get done first as well. The frustrating part is the guy who sends his wife or secretary to take the test because they consider themselves not book smart.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Proud Plumber said:


> IL is correct right to work involves not paying union dues etc.
> 
> There is one thing good about it. You seldom see wrongful termination suits in right to work states. They do exist but they are very difficult to hold up in court unless your civil rights have been clearly violated. IE sexual harassment, physically handicap, skin color etc..
> 
> TM I am not discrediting your points but the laws are very clearly written.


Mr. Proud. I respectfully disagree with the statement "the laws are clearly writen" have you ever went down to the public records/courthouse where they keep the laws that are passed??? The one here is takes up about a city block. A lawyer told me that if he spent enough time he could find a law that will undo almost ANY Law. He said thats what makes the difference between a good and a great attorney. The great one can find that opposing law quicker for you and convince the judge and case closed!!!!! For instance....we have a law here that makes it a crime for women to walk downtown with highheel shoes on less than 1/2" wide....WTF is that for huh? Thats what i asked. The reason why is women were trying to hold the city liable for drain grates breaking there shoes and personal injury......so what do these crazycats do around here??? they make a law!!! Solves that problem,cant hold them liable anymore because you were breaking the law wearing the shoes. Welcome to Alabama!!!!! Ever hear of a guy who has been hauled into court 50 times but never convicted???? I have.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Mr. Proud. I respectfully disagree with the statement "the laws are clearly writen" have you ever went down to the public records/courthouse where they keep the laws that are passed??? The one here is takes up about a city block. A lawyer told me that if he spent enough time he could find a law that will undo almost ANY Law. He said thats what makes the difference between a good and a great attorney. The great one can find that opposing law quicker for you and convince the judge and case closed!!!!! For instance....we have a law here that makes it a crime for women to walk downtown with highheel shoes on less than 1/2" wide....WTF is that for huh? Thats what i asked. The reason why is women were trying to hold the city liable for drain grates breaking there shoes and personal injury......so what do these crazycats do around here??? they make a law!!! Solves that problem,cant hold them liable anymore because you were breaking the law wearing the shoes. Welcome to Alabama!!!!! Ever hear of a guy who has been hauled into court 50 times but never convicted???? I have.


I was referring to the right to work state law, I do not profess to know the laws of your state. I do know a little about right to work state laws from contractors school and my attorney explained them to me along with some other laws a couple of years ago, hence I added my .02. wasn't meaning to ruffle feathers. As I stated I wasn't discrediting your point.

That guy that was hauled off to court 50 times and not convicted was most likely a step relative of mine so yes I have heard of him. 

P.S. No need to call me Mr. I am not that important yet...


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

*Chicago City Inspector Busted*

Here is a good article that was in the newspaper yesterday. A City inspector gets busted doing a side job installing a flood control system, with out permits or the proper licensing. If you read the whole story, he gets threatened with arrest for refusing to show his City ID.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/1654513,CST-NWS-leak07.article


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> Here is a good article that was in the newspaper yesterday. A City inspector gets busted doing a side job installing a flood control system, with out permits or the proper licensing. If you read the whole story, he gets threatened with arrest for refusing to show his City ID.
> 
> http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/1654513,CST-NWS-leak07.article


So your using the example of a IL city inspector getting busted as an example of how well the states Plumbing board is ran??? Thats typical IL news. Looks like IL has a bigger problem than I thought...I thought they were strict up there. After reading the entire article and the COMMENTS listed under it seems you guys have a bigger mess up there than anyone ever thought......looks like they have swept 23 out the door so far!!!! And those are the guys who was suppose to be enforcing your States code!!!!!! WOW WOW WOW!!!!!! If 23 are corrupt then 100 are corrupt........23 cant get away without somthing being noticed...they had help big time!!!! WOW!!! whada mess. Typical....ususally the ones with the strict enforcement are the most corrupt.......it leaves plenty of room and incentive to be corrupt!!!!! Scare the average handyman with the fear of being caught by the plumbing task force and then the task force guy slides in and takes all the handymans business......thats freakin brilliant!!!!!!!! Welcome to IL!


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

TheMaster, I believe you may have missed your calling...


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I never said there was not any corruption. What I am glad to see is enforcement of the codes, here is a guy that thought he was able to get away with what he has been doing for who knows how long, and gets busted finally by an honest inspector.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> I never said there was not any corruption. What I am glad to see is enforcement of the codes, here is a guy that thought he was able to get away with what he has been doing for who knows how long, and gets busted finally by an honest inspector.


If you read the articles comments,looks like one guy says the one inspector that did the BUSTING has been busted himself several times and even lost his job once.......can you say affirmative action???? The stricter the enforcement the more corruption you get....thats a fact. H
*Thursday, May 22, 2008*

*New Chicago corruption charges *


News from the biggest city in America's most corrupt state. First a little background: Zoning regulations are unbelievably strict in Chicago--the root cause goes back decades. That's because to get a relaxation of a zoning rule, "for a price," meaning a bribe--developers or businesspeople can get the easements they need. In the last thirty years, about two dozen Chicago alderman have been convicted on corruption charges--mostly involving receiving bribes involving zoning "favors."

Click on the link and go read all of it........its what i've been preaching for the last week!!!!!!!!!!! Except i didn't write it the chicago newspaper did.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

airgap said:


> TheMaster, I believe you may have missed your calling...


You really are a Masterdebater






Yeah, Baby, Yeah!


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

airgap said:


> You really are a Masterdebater
> View attachment 2266
> Yeah, Baby, Yeah!


 I'd rather debate it than to be a plumber in Chicago having it debated all over me. Those guys are gettin hosed!!!!! Bigtime up there and defending the same guys hosing them and they cant see that!!!! Its only been happening for 30+ years....wonder how long its going to take for people up there wake up.....the last 3 out of 7 governors have been sent to prison!!!! and the 4th mr. Blago is going to be next!!!! When are plumbers going to realize that code enforcement is selective and very corrupt in most locals across the country if not ALL


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I'd rather debate it than to be a plumber in Chicago having it debated all over me. Those guys are gettin hosed!!!!! Bigtime up there and defending the same guys hosing them and they cant see that!!!! Its only been happening for 30+ years....wonder how long its going to take for people up there wake up.....the last 3 out of 7 governors have been sent to prison!!!! and the 4th mr. Blago is going to be next!!!! When are plumbers going to realize that code enforcement is selective and very corrupt in most locals across the country if not ALL



You bet, they may as well just throw in the towel and let anyone do anything they want like in Alabama. One article, one very large state. You betcha.:thumbsup:


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Corruption, what corruption!


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

ok i said i wouldnt reply but, you managed to push another button. 
The city inspector was busted for corruption. He works for the city, not the dept. Of public health. I am good friends with most of the state plumbing inspectors. They are not remotely corrupt. They, like me, love plumbing anc our code, and follow it. You shouldn't paint with such a broad brush. 

Sorry bout the punctuation. I hate this touchscreen phone.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> ok i said i wouldnt reply but, you managed to push another button.
> The city inspector was busted for corruption. He works for the city, not the dept. Of public health. I am good friends with most of the state plumbing inspectors. They are not remotely corrupt. They, like me, love plumbing anc our code, and follow it. You shouldn't paint with such a broad brush.
> 
> Sorry bout the punctuation. I hate this touchscreen phone.


 Now we are splitting hairs. I understand not all are corrupt. I'm not a crazy nut case that thinks all inspectors are out to get me,its not like that. This whole thing got started because i said the "Plumbing board just wants to feel important" I was referencing them taking a master plumbers plumbing license because some apprentice fails a test 3 times and he doesn't show up to some hearing before the board. I just think thats going alittle far. Also some poor guy fails the test 3 times and he doesn't get to be a plumber???? come one guys...thats not right. Maybe the guy has some issues maybe he should choose another profession but thats harsh man. I dont think our fore fathers who wrote the constitution meant for things like that to be made into law......thats not america. I'm all for regulation but when they cross the line enough is enough. I'm all for my fellow plumbers and citizens....not for goverment to make countless rules and tell people they are stupid and you can only take out test 3 times. Some people have reading issues or test taking issues. Il Plumber I love you too buddy....I'd even take up for you. if you ever need a plumber on your side give me a call. You seem like a fair guy...I cant believe you side with the goverment on this issue about the test and the taking of license because apprentice fails a test.... i dont really believe you do if you were the one having to revike the license or tell a kid he has to find another trade.I dont think you could do it face to face.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Oh I could TM. In a second. I am rather ruthless. I'm not sure that is a good trait.

I agree with our license law, and here is why:

The apprentice has had 4 years to learn the code. 4 YEARS. Not 4 hours or 4 weeks or 4 months. That's plenty long enough to pass a 100 question test that is really not all that hard. I could spend 3 hours with an apprentice I have never met, going through the code book and have him at 90% on the written. 

Illiterate you say: The state has people in place that will read you the questions and possible answers. I TOTALLY disagree with this. Learn to read or GTFO. Gimmie a break. How are you ever going to follow written instructions, find addresses, or read blueprints.

OK now, Say I have an apprentice under me. We will call him "The Master". I have 4 years to train The Master. Not just so he can pass the test but, to make The Master the best plumber he can be. A lot of guys (mostly non-union) just work their hours as an apprentice doing service work or plumbing tract homes. Not learning. Then they go take the test, OH CRAP I failed. NO chit you failed. You didn't study. 

The second mistake is:
Say The Master fails the test a second time. Don't go re-test yet. Sit down in Springfield with the chief plumbing inspector to go over your test. They will do that. They will also give you some pointers to make life easier next time you test. 

Now then,
The Master goes to test the third time. Low and behold he fails. Now he has had 5 years of apprenticeship, training from me, and studying the code book on his off time. And STILL can't pass the test. I think I should be called in front of the advisory council. They will try to figure out if (1) The Master is an idiot who will never be a plumber (2) I haven't been doing my job as his sponsor. 

If I or The Master is a no show for this meeting either one of us should be revoked. I shouldn't be allowed to sponsor future failures. The Master shouldn't be able to continue in a trade that he is inept at.

CAN I GET AN AMEN!!!:thumbup:

The character "The Master" in the above hypothetical story is a purely fictional character:laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Come on. Reply. I am loading the gun:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Oh I could TM. In a second. I am rather ruthless. I'm not sure that is a good trait.
> 
> I agree with our license law, and here is why:
> 
> ...


Whats the logic behind not letting the guy take the test more than three times? Because he might be stupid and it takes 3 times to fail it before Plumbing board can figure that out? Sounds like the Blind leading the blind to me. I bought my plumbing license in chicago:laughing: City inspector sold me an Alabama plumbing license....go figure:laughing: But for real...whats the logic behind the 3 time rule? Do they also do that with drivers license's......after all IL wants to protect the public right? I think I'd rather give a plumbing license to a guy that failed the test 5 times rather than giving a guy a drivers license thats failed the test 10 times but then finally found a way to pass. here you can only take the drivers test two or 3 times a year if you fail. It use to be you could take it everyday aslong as you had the 15 bucks:laughing: Think they had incentive to fail you????:laughing: thats the only reason why they changed the law:laughing: People complained that no one ever had passed the 1st time!:laughing: majically 98% passed on the second time around!!!!!:laughing: It was all about money:yes:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Oh and some non-union shops will send their apprentice to school on top of the on the job training, this way they are armed with everything they need to pass the test. The local union by me has their own school on the premises. But here is the school for the non-union guys. http://www.bfcacademy.com/plumbing/


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> Oh and some non-union shops will send their apprentice to school on top of the on the job training, this way they are armed with everything they need to pass the test. The local union by me has their own school on the premises. But here is the school for the non-union guys. http://www.bfcacademy.com/plumbing/


 I agree the union worker gets better schooling. That can be changed. I'd love to see more independent trade schools pop up. I've often thought of opening one when my bones wear out.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Whats the logic behind not letting the guy take the test more than three times? Because he might be stupid and it takes 3 times to fail it before Plumbing board can figure that out? Sounds like the Blind leading the blind to me. I bought my plumbing license in chicago:laughing: City inspector sold me an Alabama plumbing license....go figure:laughing: But for real...whats the logic behind the 3 time rule? Do they also do that with drivers license's......after all IL wants to protect the public right? I think I'd rather give a plumbing license to a guy that failed the test 5 times rather than giving a guy a drivers license thats failed the test 10 times but then finally found a way to pass. here you can only take the drivers test two or 3 times a year if you fail. It use to be you could take it everyday aslong as you had the 15 bucks:laughing: Think they had incentive to fail you????:laughing: thats the only reason why they changed the law:laughing: People complained that no one ever had passed the 1st time!:laughing: majically 98% passed on the second time around!!!!!:laughing: It was all about money:yes:


 I passed my test the first time, my apprentice passed his the first time, and many others I know around here passed their test first time around. Some people do fail the first time, due to nervousness, or not following instructions or not properly prepared. They reason that 98% of the pass the second time around, is that they realized their mistakes and corrected them. During my test there was this guy that did not bring any hand tools, torch and so on. Guess what he failed due to the inability to do the hands on part of the test. Many fail the drawing part of the test due to never being taught the proper way to make a drawing. But they sure made sure their ass learned it before the second test.

So to think that the only reason someone fails the first time is to get them to pay a fee for the retake is very foolish on your part. If the person has the knowable and the skill they will pass the first time around. The link I posted to the apprenticeship classes, them guys have a 99% success rate of the apprentices passing on the first time around, bet you can guess why. It is because they where taught what to expect when they go down to take their test, they where taught what are the right and wrong tools to bring with you, they where taught how to do a proper drawing, they where taught the code.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I agree the union worker gets better schooling. That can be changed. I'd love to see more independent trade schools pop up. I've often thought of opening one when my bones wear out.


 There are three in the area I know of. You have BFCA, which I linked and there is ABC here is their link http://www.abcil.org/Education.aspx, and the third one escapees me at this time.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> I passed my test the first time, my apprentice passed his the first time, and many others I know around here passed their test first time around. Some people do fail the first time, due to nervousness, or not following instructions or not properly prepared. They reason that 98% of the pass the second time around, is that they realized their mistakes and corrected them. During my test there was this guy that did not bring any hand tools, torch and so on. Guess what he failed due to the inability to do the hands on part of the test. Many fail the drawing part of the test due to never being taught the proper way to make a drawing. But they sure made sure their ass learned it before the second test.
> 
> So to think that the only reason someone fails the first time is to get them to pay a fee for the retake is very foolish on your part. If the person has the knowable and the skill they will pass the first time around. The link I posted to the apprenticeship classes, them guys have a 99% success rate of the apprentices passing on the first time around, bet you can guess why. It is because they where taught what to expect when they go down to take their test, they where taught what are the right and wrong tools to bring with you, they where taught how to do a proper drawing, they where taught the code.


 I was referencing our drivers license test. Nobody would pass the 1st time......but you could take it everyday for the rest of your life so they were quick to fail you. Nothing to do with plumbing. When i took the plumbing exam in 90 I had a guy take the test with me that said His union hall basically gave him the exact test a week earlier.....he said even the math questions were identical to the numbers.......sounds funny doesn't it?


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

You know what gets me is when plumbers from other states come to Illinois to do work and get ran out of town by the state inspectors, they say how half ass backwards we are with our licensing law here in Illinois. 

When I took my Continued Education class down by Rend Lake, IL last year, the inspectors where talking about how they busted a bunch of out of state plumbers doing remodels at the Hampton Inns. Them good Ole boys from down south tried to bribe them, then started fights with the inspectors. 

Thing is the law is the law and it needs to be followed.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> You know what gets me is when plumbers from other states come to Illinois to do work and get ran out of town by the state inspectors, they say how half ass backwards we are with our licensing law here in Illinois.
> 
> When I took my Continued Education class down by Rend Lake, IL last year, the inspectors where talking about how they busted a bunch of out of state plumbers doing remodels at the Hampton Inns. Them good Ole boys from down south tried to bribe them, then started fights with the inspectors.
> 
> Thing is the law is the law and it needs to be followed.


They probably got in a fight about HOW MUCH!!!! Do you drive the speed limit???? Remeber the law. Your own local newspapers are the ones writting articles about the building code department....not plumbers from the south.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I was referencing our drivers license test. Nobody would pass the 1st time......but you could take it everyday for the rest of your life so they were quick to fail you. Nothing to do with plumbing. When i took the plumbing exam in 90 I had a guy take the test with me that said His union hall basically gave him the exact test a week earlier.....he said even the math questions were identical to the numbers.......sounds funny doesn't it?


I have buddies in the union that went through the apprenticeship classes and took the test. They informed me that the pretest helped them get in the right mind set, but defiantly was not the same as the one down state.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> I have buddies in the union that went through the apprenticeship classes and took the test. They informed me that the pretest helped them get in the right mind set, but defiantly was not the same as the one down state.


The local union hounded me for 4 years to join the plumbers local. They wanted to pay me 9 bucks an hour but wanted me to pay $1 an hour in union dues out of the 9 bucks. I was making 10 bucks an hr at the time without anyones hand in my pocket saying they are protecting me....protecting me from what??? I knew right then i'd never join the union. They acted like I needed them...when the truth was they needed me. I do a fine job of looking out for myself and do not need help for a buck an hour.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> The local union hounded me for 4 years to join the plumbers local. They wanted to pay me 9 bucks an hour but wanted me to pay $1 an hour in union dues out of the 9 bucks. I was making 10 bucks an hr at the time without anyones hand in my pocket saying they are protecting me....protecting me from what??? I knew right then i'd never join the union. They acted like I needed them...when the truth was they needed me. I do a fine job of looking out for myself and do not need help for a buck an hour.


 I am non-union, and do not see myself going union anytime soon. We are just a mom and pop shop, doing service work. My friend has had a good run with the union, learned a lot that he would of never learned working in a shop like ours. He is Med gas certified, OSHA certified, and even has his pipe fitting certification. These are things I would never be able to offer someone wanting to get into the bigger industrial jobs. So the union does has its place for certain types of people and shops.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I must be the daggum anti-christ.

I'm from IL AND I'm a union contractor.

I liked this thread for a while. I'm now losing interest. 

Must be my short attention span. Oohh. I see something shiny....

Anyway, it must be my short attention span


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> I must be the daggum anti-christ.
> 
> I'm from IL AND I'm a union contractor.
> 
> ...


 I have a question ILplumber. What is the list of professions listed on all your posts for....Are you all of those???? If you are then you are the Anti-christ:laughing: Serioulsy if you are all those things I have a question for you.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I am all those things and more. I'm sure I can produce a BS answer.

Bring on the question. I'm sitting on the edge of my seat.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> I am all those things and more. I'm sure I can produce a BS answer.
> 
> Bring on the question. I'm sitting on the edge of my seat.



Put on your crash helmets.:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

How can you be both at the same time. Il plumbing contractor and IL plumbing inspector. I would also expect nothing less than a certified plumbing inspector on my jobs...better not just send out a plumbing inspector,I want the certified one.:laughing:. I'm assuming your not both at the same time but maybe once was an inspector


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> How can you be both at the same time. Il plumbing contractor and IL plumbing inspector. I would also expect nothing less than a certified plumbing inspector on my jobs...better not just send out a plumbing inspector,I want the certified one.:laughing:. I'm assuming your not both at the same time but maybe once was an inspector


There is a test given by the dept. of public health to become a "certified plumbing inspector" It is similar to the written portion of the plumbing exam except the questions are obscure parts of the code nobody ever reads.

In order to inspect plumbing in IL you have to be a certified plumbing inspector. I don't plan on contracting forever. I love plumbing, I love learning about plumbing, I like interacting with other plumbers(hence why I am present on this site). I will prolly hang it up and inspect one of these days. 

I even like debating with you. Even if you do't make a lick of sense 9 times out of 10.

Next question.....


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Hey ILPlumber, do you remember how many questions were on your inspectors test? I submitted all my paperwork for me to become an inspector. Our test which is on the ICC is only 50 questions. I think 5 questions were on gas. Then after you pass that test then you take a prep course on laws and practices. When you pass that then you're a 
licensed inspector. The only reason I didn't finish mine is because I'm going to apply for disability next year sometime and I didn't want to have an extra license that would interfere with my approval.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

So you just took the test early and are now qualified to apply for the job. Correct? Oh and another up date on the right to work law. The Alabama supreme court just decided a case making the law that states "Interior designers must have a Interior design license by the state" unconstitutional. The reason stated was Alabamas right to work law. So it just doesn't apply to unions fee's here. Not saying it applies to plumbing but a lawyer told me today that with the above decision it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to apply it to plumbing and thats why the judge trew the drain cleaners case out. he said judges keep up with all the supreme courts rulings and take them into consideration in their own rulings. Just general info....i'm tired of arguing the point.....everywhere has problems. I dont agree with it 100% but thats how it is.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> So you just took the test early and are now qualified to apply for the job. Correct? Oh and another up date on the right to work law. The Alabama supreme court just decided a case making the law that states "Interior designers must have a Interior design license by the state" unconstitutional. The reason stated was Alabamas right to work law. So it just doesn't apply to unions fee's here. Not saying it applies to plumbing but a lawyer told me today that with the above decision it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to apply it to plumbing and thats why the judge trew the drain cleaners case out. he said judges keep up with all the supreme courts rulings and take them into consideration in their own rulings. Just general info....i'm tired of arguing the point.....everywhere has problems. I dont agree with it 100% but thats how it is.


I don't even understand what point you're trying to argue!:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> I don't even understand what point you're trying to argue!:laughing:


I figured you wouldn't but thats ok!:thumbsup: You can take my test more than 3 times. So keep trying:thumbsup: Its kinda like college. I present the material and its up to you to comprehend it.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

house plumber said:


> Hey ILPlumber, do you remember how many questions were on your inspectors test? I submitted all my paperwork for me to become an inspector. Our test which is on the ICC is only 50 questions. I think 5 questions were on gas. Then after you pass that test then you take a prep course on laws and practices. When you pass that then you're a
> licensed inspector. The only reason I didn't finish mine is because I'm going to apply for disability next year sometime and I didn't want to have an extra license that would interfere with my approval.


25 questions.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I figured you wouldn't but thats ok!:thumbsup: You can take my test more than 3 times. So keep trying:thumbsup: Its kinda like college. I present 37 different arguments on 23 different topics and its up to you to comprehend it.


Fixed for accuracy:laughing:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> Fixed for accuracy:laughing:


 Now that's funny...*golf clap*


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

:laughing:He's right ....sounds like he's been to college too. Dont get me started on college professors....please dont. Most i have been around lack common sense and social skills. No friends and dont laugh....or just the opposite kinda....many friends,party and have alot of common sense.....but still weird.:laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I would like to officially thank George for starting one of the greatest threads in the history of the PZ.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I figured you wouldn't but thats ok!:thumbsup: You can take my test more than 3 times. So keep trying:thumbsup: Its kinda like college. I present the material and its up to you to comprehend it.


You're right I don't get it, you're all over the place.:blink:

I have to ask you this TM, how old are you? You made a comment a while back about me being over 40 and how old that is, remember? You say you've been service plumbing for 25 years right? So how old are you anyway? If you're not over 40 and you've been a service plumber for 25 years.................... ????????

I'm not starting anything, I'm just curious. I'm 44 by the way, my b-day was Monday.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I think I should get credit for this one. Iron ranger,sewerratz helped too. Its no fun to agree all the time. However I consider you a double agent now IL plumber. Your already crossing over to the dark side with that IL certified plumbing inspector thing.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> You're right I don't get it, you're all over the place.:blink:
> 
> I have to ask you this TM, how old are you? You made a comment a while back about me being over 40 and how old that is, remember? You say you've been service plumbing for 25 years right? So how old are you anyway? If you're not over 40 and you've been a service plumber for 25 years.................... ????????
> 
> I'm not starting anything, I'm just curious.


I never said I was over 40......I said almost. I've been working in the plumbing service industry since i was 13. Over 40 people think different


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I never said I was over 40......I said almost. I've been working in the plumbing service industry since i was 13


How old are you? Nevermind, that would make you 38 then right and a service plumber for 25 years, got it!
What kind of license do you hold, for how long?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> How old are you? Nevermind, that would make you 38 then right and a service plumber for 25 years, got it!
> What kind of license do you hold, for how long?


Thats close enough. I was an apprentice since I was 13.......i was installing water heaters when i was 12


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Thats close enough


I don't think you're anywhere near 38 TM.  I'm finding this entire thread very amusing and entertaining.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Thats close enough. I was an apprentice since I was 13.......i was installing water heaters when i was 12


In most states you have to be 18 to be a registered apprentice and to work in peoples homes. What's the law in Alabama?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> I don't think you're anywhere near 38 TM.


 Ok well you can believe that if you want. I grew up in the 80's baby:thumbup: members only jackets and ray-bans baby:thumbup: parachute pants...I'm just old enough to know what I'm doing and still young enough to do it:thumbup:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Oh I could TM. In a second. I am rather ruthless. I'm not sure that is a good trait.
> 
> I agree with our license law, and here is why:
> 
> ...


AMEN!!!


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ironranger said:


> In most states you have to be 18 to be a registered apprentice and to work in peoples homes. What's the law in Alabama?


 I was an apprentice working in the family business. i could have got it when I was 10 but my dad said why waste the money. When I started getting a paycheck I got the apprentice license. I've been saturated in plumbing since I was a baby...in the early 70's my dad brought home pvc fitings for me to play with. I've been exposed to alot my entire life.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Can't we all just get along?


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

house plumber said:


> Can't we all just get along?


I think we're just having a good time, nothing serious. I think it's cool MT's been plumbing so long, I wish I could have started earlier.:thumbsup:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ironranger said:


> I think we're just having a good time, nothing serious. I think it's cool MT's been plumbing so long, I wish I could have started earlier.:thumbsup:


I know, I just wanted to sound like Rodney King.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I've been saturated in plumbing since I was a baby...in the early 70's my dad brought home pvc fitings for me to play with. I've been exposed to alot my entire life.


What? No baby toys in Alabama. :laughing:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> What? No baby toys in Alabama. :laughing:


I think they banned adult toys too. I think it was Alabama.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> What? No baby toys in Alabama. :laughing:


You got to admit, to any plumber this is a playground for sure!:thumbup:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Is that a 3" sanitary tee with a 2" side inlet?
I once placed an order for a box of 3" 1/4 bends with a 2" side inlet. I told them i wanted 1 box of left inlets, and 1 box of right inlets. The guy chuckled on the phone, i asked why the smirk, he said that fitting is ambodextrious. My next question? What the hell is ambodextrious?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I see the cottage tees in that photo. That can't be big box?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Is that a 3" sanitary tee with a 2" side inlet?
> I once placed an order for a box of 3" 1/4 bends with a 2" side inlet. I told them i wanted 1 box of left inlets, and 1 box of right inlets. The guy chuckled on the phone, i asked why the smirk, he said that fitting is ambodextrious. My next question? What the hell is ambodextrious?


 He's the dumbazz...I would shipped ur azz two box's and marked one box left hand and the other right hand. Customer is always right! Especially when i profit when they are right!!!!


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Thats close enough. I was an apprentice since I was 13.......i was installing water heaters when i was 12


I was playing Asteroids when I was 12...


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I think TheMaster needs to get his dad on the site. I have a feeling that would be quite entertaining.

What say you TM. Does daddy have a puter?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> I think TheMaster needs to get his dad on the site. I have a feeling that would be quite entertaining.
> 
> What say you TM. Does daddy have a puter?


 We would both get banned within minutes. :thumbsup:


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

I am going to stay out of this one but ask the master about our GRANDFATHERING law here in alabama I dont think its in effect now but talk about a hoot!!!!!!!


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

retired rooter said:


> I am going to stay out of this one but ask the master about our GRANDFATHERING law here in alabama I dont think its in effect now but talk about a hoot!!!!!!!


 Oh yeah just get your checkbook out and stroke a check and heres your plumbing license oh you also need another plumber to swear you have been plumbing for ever how many years it was. That is no longer being done and was mainly done pre 1980. BUTTTTTT around Mongomery I heard after hurrincane katrina they were selling a contractors license to anyone who wanted to buy one....no test. 500 bucks and your a contractor!!!!! You could pull building permits but no mechanicals.


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## ProcessHeavy (Jul 13, 2009)

That stuff in ironrangers pic is used for a lot more stuff than just plumbing in Northern MN


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Hi ProcessHeavy

How about stopping in the intro from and tell use who you are. Give us an intro.


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