# Are we having fun yet????



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I turned off my phone last night after getting about 20 frozen pipe calls from 6 to 7.30... 

their are so many pex systems in this city that we cant help them thaw out 
their plastic lines.... and all the kerosine salamanders are sold out at the hardware stores so they are basically screwed.....

I have asked a number of them if they have any wide open vents or open holes on the outside of their homes where cold air can blow into their homes and they have not got a clue what I am getting at...... I have attempted to expalin to them what they need to do but most are just too helpless to help themselves... 

One lady told me she had a broken window in her basement and did not have hot water...... I told her to plug up the hole and it might thaw itself out and it was like she was suprised that this would freeze the pipes.... duh,,, 

I cant handle the temps right now and *I cant fix stupid either...*

I set up a tutorial on my facebook page to explain to people how to help themselves......I have gotten 6000 hits so far since Sunday.....:::vs_bananasplit:

https://www.facebook.com/Weilhammer...bt5p70guPfkcg1Agsz_P7T381KuGS0NeRiRKaZuVcKwlk


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Mark, I just checked out your FB page. Very good. I like it. All the so-called website advisors suggest a 'helpful hints' section on your page. I guess it keeps people reading and glued to your page. 

Hey, we are dipping down into the low 20's tonight. And again tomorrow night. A few miles north of me, up in Tallahassee they had snow today. 

I repaired a broken PB tee today. I'm not sure if it froze last night or what since it was 36 F. this morning when I woke up. But I'm thinking that tomorrow I'll get some frozen pipe calls.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I have to tell you about my day. Started out with two simple jobs. Got bad news from the city, it’s now on me to remove my stuck cable stuck in a city main 11.5’ under a house.

Got a call from maintenance at this one early 20’s 3 story apartment building asking for advice on a no water call. I’ve *****ed about this building here before. Every water line material ever used with the exception of wooden pipes. Gave him a few ideas and told him to keep me updated.

Had a couple other small jobs come in, then an FYI call from one of my college rental property management companies, you’ll love this one! When the kids left for winter break they turned the furnace off to save on their gas bill. Doesn’t surprise me one bit. Drove past it after a job around the corner. There were icicles on the siding from the second floor all the way to the ground. That was later booked for Friday.

Ended up going to the apartment building at about 1:30 and left at 7. The three bedroom apartment that they’ve been working on, the one we ratted out to the city for not pulling permits, is the only unit with a balcony. Well the door to the balcony, that was always hard to get to latch had blown open and it was as cold inside as outside. So we get it warming up, which is steam heat and it was still jacket temp when we left.

We’re up to 7 bursts between copper, galvanized and shower valves. Valves we are doing tomorrow along with the last leak we know about but haven’t put eyes on. We were able too isolate that line leaving at least 5 units without water. Hopefully it’s the last one, but we did hear something that sounded unhealthy down one hallway.

This building is wood, steel beam, sheet rock, steal mesh and plaster... fun stuff!


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy....you are lucky that you are down in florida....you might get a few leaks but nothing like the hell that the east coast is gonna get over the weekend,,,,...


I am just glad I dont have any employees and a payroll to meet any more.
10 years ago I would have been stressing over keeping a bunch of losers working through this cold wave and making payroll....running after every freeze up call that came in ......

So we got a couple of heaters to do tomorrow but are not gonna get stuck into any of these messess...


Tommy feel free to like and share my facebook page...


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> Tommy....you are lucky that you are down in florida....you might get a few leaks but nothing like the hell that the east coast is gonna get over the weekend,,,,...
> 
> 
> I am just glad I dont have any employees and a payroll to meet any more.
> ...


That’s the difference between you and my Master, however you are very much alike. Business wise, kinda... I can’t tell if you’re an ass hole like him or not, but he shuts his phone off or doesn’t answer, and call back the next day. However he takes on jobs where I see only bad things happening.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

You guys must not have very strict building codes and maybe even put water lines in outside walls. I simply don't understand how you can get that many calls about frozen lines when it's only barely frosty temps. Here we have had negative 25F this past week. Yet we have only had 3 frozen pipe calls and one was due to a frat house loosing heat so everything froze up and flooded 3 stories. Other one was 1 kitchen line that froze but had thawed out by the time I got there.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> That’s the difference between you and my Master, however you are very much alike. Business wise, kinda... I can’t tell if you’re an ass hole like him or not, but he shuts his phone off or doesn’t answer, and call back the next day. However he takes on jobs where I see only bad things happening.


I normally answer all my calls pretty quickly except for this week and I am eager to do the gravy service calls all over town ...except for this week..I cannot handle the freeze ups... It takes 2 of us to drudge around in this cold snap and it wears on you badly....

I just know that many calls are gonna be losers and I just dont want to spend my day trying to prove to someone that I can roto rooter out their sewer , or unthaw their home tonight for a cheaper price than someone else... and get home tonight at 10.30

I give away all my sewer clean out calls and all my emergency gas leak calls 
to a couple of other small guys that seem to like to deal with those kind of troubles..... I have turned down a whole bunch of skumbag contractors wanting me to do rough inns for them......

Funny thing, my bottom line has gone up good in 2017... :vs_rocking_banana: 

I dont have to have a bunch of trucks to keep up with all this dead end work and I dont have to have a bunch of ingrates working for me tearin gup the trucks either....... :vs_rocking_banana: .


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

The Dane said:


> You guys must not have very strict building codes and maybe even put water lines in outside walls. I simply don't understand how you can get that many calls about frozen lines when it's only barely frosty temps. Here we have had negative 25F this past week. Yet we have only had 3 frozen pipe calls and one was due to a frat house loosing heat so everything froze up and flooded 3 stories. Other one was 1 kitchen line that froze but had thawed out by the time I got there.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk



Where are you located in the USA??? 

Here in Indy we have not had a nasty winter since 2014..... Last year we had only one wimpy snowfall
and the year before that it was pretty mild too.

I have had firewood stacked along the side of my house never touched since then.... now I am burning through all of it pretty fast......

I think People here have been blindsided by this blast of cold weather and have not taken steps to insulate their homes because its has been too mild for too long.....


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> I normally answer all my calls pretty quickly except for this week and I am eager to do the gravy service calls all over town ...except for this week..I cannot handle the freeze ups... It takes 2 of us to drudge around in this cold snap and it wears on you badly....
> 
> I just know that many calls are gonna be losers and I just dont want to spend my day trying to prove to someone that I can roto rooter out their sewer , or unthaw their home tonight for a cheaper price than someone else... and get home tonight at 10.30
> 
> ...


My Master had eight guys and five trucks at one time. All he did was play the part of a fireman running around fixing what his guys screwed up. He made more for himself when he downsized. We still have some guys that I’ve worked with that help when we have a big bust up or something, but that’s once or twice a month maybe.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

The Dane said:


> You guys must not have very strict building codes and maybe even put water lines in outside walls. I simply don't understand how you can get that many calls about frozen lines when it's only barely frosty temps. Here we have had negative 25F this past week. Yet we have only had 3 frozen pipe calls and one was due to a frat house loosing heat so everything froze up and flooded 3 stories. Other one was 1 kitchen line that froze but had thawed out by the time I got there.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


Running anything in outside walls is suicide and we never do it unless there’s no other option. Had one remodel we did last winter/spring. Engineered joists, ho didn’t want to see a chase. Had to run water in an outside wall... guess what kinda call we got? Even though we told the builder to insulate the snot out of the wall and put in some register vents.

Crawl spaces are notorious. Heck, my hot line to my kitchen usually freezes because it’s soft copper laying on the ground. I just haven’t replaced it yet. Always a five minute fix and hasn’t burst yet.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> Where are you located in the USA???
> 
> Here in Indy we have not had a nasty winter since 2014..... Last year we had only one wimpy snowfall
> and the year before that it was pretty mild too.
> ...


North West Minnesota. I believe the 2014 winter you are talking about is the one where around here there was a whole month were it never got above 0F night or day.

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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> My Master had eight guys and five trucks at one time. All he did was play the part of a fireman running around fixing what his guys screwed up. He made more for himself when he downsized. We still have some guys that I’ve worked with that help when we have a big bust up or something, but that’s once or twice a month maybe.



It sounds like your boss has semi-retired.... and I feel about the same way too.. He just dont realize it yet..... at the very least he can admit that he has "geared down" 

I had about the same history played out here in our town.. 6 trucks and a bunch of "winners" coming and going through my door. back in 2002,, then the bottom gradually fell out.

. 
I was born into the rat race and never knew anything different...my old man felt obligated to keep all of his employees working until they retired and this became his cross to bear, which I inherited...

Just like your boss, I have made more money downsizeing rather than begging and bribeing people with money, medical benefits, and transportation to work for me... 
I suppose that this makes me an ass hole in many folks eyes for not wanting to support my fellow mans drinking habits...... :crying::devil3:

Last year was the first year we were 100% out of the yellow pages and we still grossed a lot more than the previous 2 years 
so I am pretty much ok and content with the present path we are on........


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

The Dane said:


> North West Minnesota. I believe the 2014 winter you are talking about is the one where around here there was a whole month were it never got above 0F night or day.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


I remember that year. Happening all over again! I was without power for a week. Spent more for gas for the generator than my truck.


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## TheOfficeGirl (Dec 28, 2016)

Interesting to hear how much better it is with fewer techs to support. We feel the same way here and are easing out of the phone books one at a time too. My BIL was a plumbing and heating contractor in Milwaukee. As his techs quit he just didn't replace them until he was OMS. He apprenticed one of his kids after that but now it's just him and the wife to worry about and he gets to travel as much as he wants. Sounds pretty good. If we don't sell out we will get our kids through college and look at that. We are in WI and have another weekend of sub zero temps coming up. Not a lot of freeze ups unless your contractor insulates your pipes on the WRONG SIDE! Seriously - is there no common sense???


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The Dane said:


> *You guys must not have very strict building codes and maybe even put water lines in outside walls. I simply don't understand how you can get that many calls about frozen lines* when it's only barely frosty temps. Here we have had negative 25F this past week. Yet we have only had 3 frozen pipe calls and one was due to a frat house loosing heat so everything froze up and flooded 3 stories. Other one was 1 kitchen line that froze but had thawed out by the time I got there.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


 












You were reading my thoughts exactly. I was thinking that handymen must have done re-modeling and installed water lines in outside walls; because up north {where I am from- NY to be exact} plumbers know to protect water lines from freezing temperatures. 

So I was also wondering why so many freeze ups occur up north. 

As a kid some 35 years ago or so, my grandfather had a frozen water line in his crawl space in NJ. I think they warmed it up or something. His furnace was also in that crawl space.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

This one is going to the scrap hauler. Gotta find one to put back in it's place.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I got real lucky today on the freeze repairs we did ...
went to this old house in the downtown area and found the 
second floor water line had frozen to an antique dentist bowl 
which I have never seen before... 

I crawled into the attic
and we were able to just cut out the whole galvanized line back to some copper and throw a 5 fot section of aquapex back into the wall and install
a new stop and supply to the sink ..... Then I took some blankets and
covered everything up for him..... 

Sharkbite fittings have made freeze repair work much easier.... 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MCgxNQHYLeZevKtI3

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zljj1KNmz47fohZH3


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

TheOfficeGirl said:


> Interesting to hear how much better it is with fewer techs to support. We feel the same way here and are easing out of the phone books one at a time too. My BIL was a plumbing and heating contractor in Milwaukee. As his techs quit he just didn't replace them until he was OMS. He apprenticed one of his kids after that but now it's just him and the wife to worry about and he gets to travel as much as he wants. Sounds pretty good. If we don't sell out we will get our kids through college and look at that. We are in WI and have another weekend of sub zero temps coming up. Not a lot of freeze ups unless your contractor insulates your pipes on the WRONG SIDE! Seriously - is there no common sense???



The main thing that used to piss me off was having to go into the office and open the place up early every morning then standing around waiting for everyone to stagger into the office at least 30 minutes late.. if at all.... 

Then you have to call the dumb-asses to see if they were even planning on showing up today or not and why haven't you called in if you were not planning on showing up.??. So whats the big secret boy.???..:vs_mad: 

Now we just get into the office about 8.45.and do what ever we have scheduled..... .clean up the trucks,,,ect.......and if the phone rings we go out and deal with their issues....

I think its called semi-retirement., but we are making more money


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

In Illinois you may put water lines within outside walls, but must protect them from freezing. A minimum of Armflex and standard R-13 at a minimum.

Agree never a good idea. In laundries we try to push an extra short wall to house the washer box.

We would always come up through the floor for anything else. Inherently though if over a crawl space right there would be the crawl space ventilation the owner would never close in the winter.

Dead spaces and chases on the upper floor are bad to. Insulation falls and a cold air drop from the attic. Around here I require all "dead spaces" have a lid installed to isolate. Illinois has a state requirement to comply with the 2015 IECC, which mandates all opening into an attic area be sealed


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

RHW & Master Mark. Looking good.

Why the heck is the button gone to like or Thank?????


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> I got real lucky today on the freeze repairs we did ...
> went to this old house in the downtown area and found the
> second floor water line had frozen to an antique dentist bowl
> which I have never seen before...
> ...


Same tub and pedestal that were in the apartment building I’ve been working in. Mater of fact, I removed the very last pedestal last year. I had planned on selling it on Craigslist, but unfortunately it was raining that day and it slipped out of my hand, still had soap on it from the hoarder tenant that they evicted. 

I guess mine went ok. Found three more bursts. One buried where we couldn’t get to it. We could, but would’ve had to cut an I beam. So we rerouted it with pex and re attached it to our best guess. When we opened the valve we found another leak. So the two units above have hot water, but no cold with the exception of the kitchen sink in the occupied unit. The occupied unit won’t be bad, the empty one is going to be interesting.

They wanted it patched for now. I’m hoping and not hoping they decide on a full repipe.

Tried posting pics, but get an error...:crying:


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

GAN said:


> In Illinois you may put water lines within outside walls, but must protect them from freezing. A minimum of Armflex and standard R-13 at a minimum.
> 
> Agree never a good idea. In laundries we try to push an extra short wall to house the washer box.
> 
> ...


I had forgotten/taken for granted this part if Illinois code. In central Illinois, never are supply lines run in outside walls. The stipulation on rvalue is moot. Sort of a false sense of security. Put your $40 yeti mug full of coffee outside tonight. See how warm it is at dawn.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

rwh said:


> I had forgotten/taken for granted this part if Illinois code. In central Illinois, never are supply lines run in outside walls. The stipulation on rvalue is moot. Sort of a false sense of security. Put your $40 yeti mug full of coffee outside tonight. See how warm it is at dawn.


You got that right, R value has no help unless heat is generated.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

My heart goes out to all of you, I remember those days well, made enough money to take off till spring after the bone chilling cold was over, but what a pain! Be careful out there, just a couple of more days of this here in the Mid-Atlantic, calling for low 50's here later next week.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

College house went ok... unfortunately they have no evidence, so they can’t charge the kids. Figure a kid came back to party on New Year’s Eve and turned it back on. Only way they saw it was a maintenance guy saw the house caked in ice. They patched 5 bursts, we did another 6. All copper, some brass fittings burst plus a 1225b.

Apartment maintenance guy guy texted and said three units had no hot water. It’ll have to wait.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I am pretty exhausted tonight... Installed 2 heaters today
one of them in a garage .... we had a salamander to keep the room warm
and kept the door shut.. then did a 40 gas.... then went and repaired a
meter stop in a pit......

I passed all the frozen pipe calls on to a couple of other guys to do

I have had enough for this week:devil3:


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

We said the same thing! LOL! We called it a day at 3 o’clock.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

OpenSights said:


> I have to tell you about my day. Started out with two simple jobs. Got bad news from the city, it’s now on me to remove my stuck cable stuck in a city main 11.5’ under a house.
> 
> Got a call from maintenance at this one early 20’s 3 story apartment building asking for advice on a no water call. I’ve *****ed about this building here before. Every water line material ever used with the exception of wooden pipes. Gave him a few ideas and told him to keep me updated.
> 
> ...


In the two dozen frozen pipe calls I've had in the past two weeks. I had two college girls turn the heat off because "they're environmentalists." 1 out of thirteen rads weren't broken.


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## Pipelayer727 (Jan 7, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> Sharkbite fittings
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/MCgxNQHYLeZevKtI3
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zljj1KNmz47fohZH3


Hack attack. Lolplumbahz


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

*Hello! Introduction Requested* 
An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/. 

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession) 

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field. 

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is. 

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Pipelayer727 said:


> Hack attack. Lolplumbahz




Hey I just loaded up on shark bite 3/4 male adaptors , couplings and stops from barnteets
they are not sharkbites but their premier brand got about 2 dozen 3/4 stops and about 72 male adapters to get me out of troubles.. been throwing them into the fray like candy...


have hacksaw and baby cutter ready for the big thaw about to come our way.:surprise::surprise:.


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## Pipelayer727 (Jan 7, 2018)

Tommy plumber said:


> *Hello! Introduction Requested*
> An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.
> 
> The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)
> ...


Hi my name is Brendan and I'm an alcoholic. It's not a problem. I am the liquor.... oh wrong board. 
Residential/commercial/industrial full blown plumb bot. 
Electrical apprentice before I went into plumbing. Boring. Really boring. Helper > 4 year phcc apprentice, and now 15 years into the trade my soul is officially gone. 
From new con to remodels to service... if water/waste/gas goes thru it, I'll own it. 
I use a sectional. *waits*
Backflow, D/I, water treatment certified. 
Service high rises in downtown Tampa as well as USF. Go noles. No not a typo.
Yes the dirt is soft in Florida... it's everything else that's buried that isn't. Roots, boulders, clay... so let's just not even go there. 
Very passionate about sharkbites. Cut many out that weren't even 5 years old. Hot water, as well as softened just destroy that o ring. The ball valves I do use only to stop a live line if I don't feel I can press it. To each their own. I just assume as a licensed professional I am expected to do a quality job using quality material. #pro45B4life
Milwaukee fanatic. Their augers are op. 
Yes I own a multimeter and measuring tape. 
Zero respect for 85% of new con guys. Pipe installers. Cool story. 
I like long walks on the beach and prefer to be pampered before you get in these pants.
Hi.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Pipelayer727 said:


> Hi my name is Brendan and I'm an alcoholic. It's not a problem. I am the liquor.... oh wrong board.
> Residential/commercial/industrial full blown plumb bot.
> Electrical apprentice before I went into plumbing. Boring. Really boring. Helper > 4 year phcc apprentice, and now 15 years into the trade my soul is officially gone.
> From new con to remodels to service... if water/waste/gas goes thru it, I'll own it.
> ...


Thanks for the intro, but it really belongs in the introduction section, not some random thread. Do you keep your pex cutters in the same box as your main line cutters too?:vs_laugh:

Welcome


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## Pipelayer727 (Jan 7, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> Pipelayer727 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi my name is Brendan and I'm an alcoholic. It's not a problem. I am the liquor.... oh wrong board.
> ...


Oh my...I pex nothing. Didn't go over my head tho. Find me an iron pipe cutter for 6+ inch that'll fit in my toolbox and I'll make you rich.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Main line _root_ cutters... wife talking in one ear, kid in the other when I get home from a job.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

I got a good start today. On a whole house frat house that lost heat for 2 days and froze. It was negative 25-30F when it froze. As it turns out the heating company that got the heat up and running again actually cut the 11/2" main water line in the boiler room to get a way to fill up the boiler system again. They did not think to cut in a tee and then a ball valve so they could get water but turn off the rest of the house. No they cut it and reduced down to 3/4" and ran to the boiler. Left the house pipe sit there open and thought it could be my problem to solve. We are talking completely frozen toilet tanks and pots of water in the kitchen froze solid. After hooking up the water main trunk line in the boiler room I got a couple of leaks fixed but this one is interesting. On the third floor the frozen pipes had blown a Moen shower valve cartridge out of the valve but when I cut open the wall behind it I found a perfectly well soldered pipe had completely pushed out if the valve. I wonder how much force it takes to do that.









Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

The Dane said:


> I got a good start today. On a whole house frat house that lost heat for 2 days and froze. It was negative 25-30F when it froze. As it turns out the heating company that got the heat up and running again actually cut the 11/2" main water line in the boiler room to get a way to fill up the boiler system again. They did not think to cut in a tee and then a ball valve so they could get water but turn off the rest of the house. No they cut it and reduced down to 3/4" and ran to the boiler. Left the house pipe sit there open and thought it could be my problem to solve. We are talking completely frozen toilet tanks and pots of water in the kitchen froze solid. After hooking up the water main trunk line in the boiler room I got a couple of leaks fixed but this one is interesting. On the third floor the frozen pipes had blown a Moen shower valve cartridge out of the valve but when I cut open the wall behind it I found a perfectly well soldered pipe had completely pushed out if the valve. I wonder how much force it takes to do that. \


that is a good question how much force or pressure frozen water has ... 

they claim that they used to drill holes in granite and fill them with water and come back the next day to find the frozen water had cracked the granite all the way through...


Its all starting to thaw out now that the temp is 37 outside... lots of surprises in store for us tomorrow......


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

I feel bad for you guys. I'm in my backyard wearing shorts and grilling steaks right now.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Hey Master Mark, you stocked up on sump pumps? Around me they’re talking about flooding the next five days with a heatwave above 40 and rain. Personally I have three in stock.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> Hey Master Mark, you stocked up on sump pumps? Around me they’re talking about flooding the next five days with a heatwave above 40 and rain. Personally I have three in stock.




we got 2 in each truck and I need to probably get some more .. ..... 

I have talked to a lot of people with their lines simply frozen up but for some reason they think it will fix itself when it thaws... I told one guy we could knock a new hole in his side wall and re-route the pump out onto his yard but he thinks its too radical a repair.... 

Of course this guy is gonna be crying like a baby in a few days :crying::crying:


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## Oorgnid (Apr 5, 2016)

Supposed to be in the thirties tomorrow. Things are gonna unthaw and the the phone will be blowing up. 

First picture the lady actually lucked out. The packing nut was leaking, and luckily didn’t split. 

Second picture was up in the rafters of a million dollar home. Regular customer of ours, which I hate. The guy owns multiple businesses around the area and is married to his wife only because it’d be more expensive to divorce her, than just live in a separate house and pay her bills. As you can see, she obtained my number somehow and called me non stop New Year’s Eve. Her water heaters don’t make as much hot water as they used to and she tried to relate it to her freeze up. She wanted me to drop what I was doing and drive up and fix her problems, guessing because they were gonna have a party. Rich people hate being told no, but oh well. 

In any case, he sends goons from his company to work on the house because it’s cheaper to pay their wages than ours. The lovely hack job was split on the pex ball valve. Flooded her bedroom closet and bathroom. Not looking forward to this week.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Interesting thread. Here in northern Wisconsin it was -24 on saturday morning.
I will fix single pipe breaks when isolated but if the whole house has frozen it's a complete re-pipe or I walk.
All the insurance work i do for freeze ups mandate complete replacement, no spot repairs with the chance a loosened solder joint could fail a week or two down the road.


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## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

Had to go to waste water treatment plant today , and set up our ground thaw machine to thaw a couple of large inlet pipes into aerator tanks . Froze about a foot down solid. .. We hit -20s here in the fox valley as well.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Interesting thread. Here in northern Wisconsin it was -24 on saturday morning.
> I will fix single pipe breaks when isolated but if the whole house has frozen it's a complete re-pipe or I walk.
> All the insurance work i do for freeze ups mandate complete replacement, no spot repairs with the chance a loosened solder joint could fail a week or two down the road.


 












Interesting. I would never have guessed that frozen pipes could have a weakened solder joint that does not burst when it freezes, but if not replaced could fail at any time. Very good to know. So the knowledgeable plumber re-pipes all or nothing at all. 

Since I live in N. Florida, we don't get the deep freezes that you guys get up north, but we do get below freezing temperatures and we do get customers calling with ice plugs that tend to thaw out in several hours. This won't burst the pipes since it is not below 32 F for many hours.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

PLUMB TIME said:


> All the insurance work i do for freeze ups mandate complete replacement, no spot repairs with the chance a loosened solder joint could fail a week or two down the road.


Awesome approach.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> Hey Master Mark, you stocked up on sump pumps? Around me they’re talking about flooding the next five days with a heatwave above 40 and rain. Personally I have three in stock.




I have gotten 3 calls tonight from folks who have frozen sump lines going out the side of their homes... the big thaw is on and it cant pump it anywhere..... 

they cant understand why their battery back up pumps are not working either,,,but with both being on the same line they are basically screwed....


I been installing aquanot ll battery back ups for a long while and for the past 5 years I have begged people to put in a separate line out the side of the house for the back up system just for these special occasions..like .BLIZZARDS,--- POLAR VORTEXES and things like this... 
...the cost is minimal $275 compared to the trouble that awaits the cheap asses that did not heed my warning...... 


one guy that took my advice called today and thanked me for doing the extra line out into the grass... I got to go check out the system on wednesday.... oh what fun [/SIZE]


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Interesting. I would never have guessed that frozen pipes could have a weakened solder joint that does not burst when it freezes, but if not replaced could fail at any time. Very good to know. So the knowledgeable plumber re-pipes all or nothing at all.
> 
> Since I live in N. Florida, we don't get the deep freezes that you guys get up north, but we do get below freezing temperatures and we do get customers calling with ice plugs that tend to thaw out in several hours. This won't burst the pipes since it is not below 32 F for many hours.


Very similar to the picture that THE DANE posted.
Imagine if that had only loosened an 1/8" and we walk after all obvious repairs are made, that could easily last a week or more,slowly dripping behind the wall and then all hell breaks loose. no pun intended.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Very similar to the picture that THE DANE posted.
> Imagine if that had only loosened an 1/8" and we walk after all obvious repairs are made, that could easily last a week or more,slowly dripping behind the wall and then all hell breaks loose. no pun intended.


I am actually still little by little working at fixing things at the place that picture was from. In 2 bathrooms both with 2 showers. I had 2 shower valves with pipes that had pushed out of the valve (1 was the one in the picture) and 1 shower valve where i could see that the solder had cracked and separated and I could wiggle the pipe just a bit. That would probably have dripped a little until it, boom blow completely out of the valve at any time. I'll try to see if I can take a good picture of it tomorrow.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

The Dane said:


> I am actually still little by little working at fixing things at the place that picture was from. In 2 bathrooms both with 2 showers. I had 2 shower valves with pipes that had pushed out of the valve (1 was the one in the picture) and 1 shower valve where i could see that the solder had cracked and separated and I could wiggle the pipe just a bit. That would probably have dripped a little until it, boom blow completely out of the valve at any time. I'll try to see if I can take a good picture of it tomorrow.
> 
> Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk



Did water heater and floor drains survive?


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Did water heater and floor drains survive?


It seems like all traps are fine. Water heater is fine. It's a maybe 30 year old tank that is heated via steam pipes.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Another 8.5 day at the three story. Only thing left is a vacant unit with holes in the bathroom floor. This is patch work to get them up and running. 1920’s galvi cemented between floors. Froze hard! 


Having issues with pictures again. Too tired to figure it out.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

Talk about neglecting to drain down... a friend who works for a sprinkler company is repairing freeze damage to a fire sprinkler system in an NFL stadium.. :surprise:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> Another 8.5 day at the three story. Only thing left is a vacant unit with holes in the bathroom floor. This is patch work to get them up and running. 1920’s galvi cemented between floors. Froze hard!
> 
> 
> Having issues with pictures again. Too tired to figure it out.



Now that sounds like a fun one to get into.....galvanized pipes buried in concrete and frozen hard......... easier just to re-pipe the hell hole but I bet they expect you to just find the leaks and patch..... 

good luck with that


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Patch for now to get up and running. We warned them about the property, but they bought it anyway. They’re in contact with insurance, but that won’t pay our bill, just the damage.

I’m not working today. Ice and snow, cube don’t go.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Tommy plumber said:


> You were reading my thoughts exactly. I was thinking that handymen must have done re-modeling and installed water lines in outside walls; because up north {where I am from- NY to be exact} plumbers know to protect water lines from freezing temperatures.
> 
> So I was also wondering why so many freeze ups occur up north.
> 
> As a kid some 35 years ago or so, my grandfather had a frozen water line in his crawl space in NJ. I think they warmed it up or something. His furnace was also in that crawl space.



2 weeks ago, frozen water lines in the walls of a basement bathroom, the other side was the unheated garage.

Next a woman had a washroom, water heater and laundry in the mudroom. Too lazy to buy heaters for that room.

Lastly, the river flooded over 160 houses this spring. Speed up to December this guy's moved to the second floor apartment, his water pipe popped in the crawl space while half assed renovations were being done downstairs. There was a 220 volt construction heater and 5 feet away the spray from the burst pipe the water was frozen on the walls.

All the other calls I declined.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> Hey Master Mark, you stocked up on sump pumps? Around me they’re talking about flooding the next five days with a heatwave above 40 and rain. Personally I have three in stock.


Sorry I can't send PMs yet.

What do you do for a basement flood? What model do you put and do you wait till it drains or let the pump work alone and go to another house on the other side of town?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

While your English is very good, a bit is lost in translation. For a sump pump I sell Meyers, the one with the float, not the pressure switch. But if I have a basement flooded I call a septic company to pump it out.

Storm and sewer separation is big in my area, for good reason. Sump pumps go to the lawn or storm.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Ok I understand now.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

What happens when you have a clogged toilet 2nd floor with a stuck flapper,
family out of town, and Boiler breaks down, on Twitter 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTQcaFlWsAAU28T.jpg


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

What a freaking aftermath nightmare!

I'm amazed I regularly tell my customers to shut off the water when they are going away for the week-end and they never knew that. I also have to show them 50% of the time where it is and how to close it. Their home insurance don't cover this type of damage if you'r gone.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> What happens when you have a clogged toilet 2nd floor with a stuck flapper,
> family out of town, and Boiler breaks down, on Twitter
> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTQcaFlWsAAU28T.jpg




That is beautiful....good times, good times..... we had something similar to this in 1989 with a brand new 700k home that never had gone through its first winter yet... A full half inch pipe blew out of a tub faucet on the second floor and by the time they found the problem the finished basement was full of water.. and the power and heat were off too... The people went down to florida for the month and simply left the house without turning off the water..... The house was basically a total loss.....I got to pump out the basement and .I wish I had pics of the mess ..:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Got the heads up about a vacant house on the property of an apartment complex I take care of was found to have water flowing out of the basement windows tonight. Supposedly it was winterized, my guess is the meter froze and burst.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango said:


> What a freaking aftermath nightmare!
> 
> I'm amazed I regularly tell my customers to shut off the water when they are going away for the week-end and they never knew that. I also have to show them 50% of the time where it is and how to close it. Their home insurance don't cover this type of damage if you'r gone.


Two summers ago had a call from one of our restoration company’s, wife and kids out of town, hubby came home to a broken braided dishwasher washer line after an 18 hour shift. His ranch house was destroyed including the finished basement along with all his deer and fish trophies.

I tell and show all my customers where and how to shut their house down when they go out of town. Sure, free info, but is big time advertisement for repeat and referral.

I guess my master’s *******ness is rubbing off on me. If someone wants to check Angie’s list or google, I don’t want them as a customer. What does a baby bird say? Cheap, cheap.....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> Two summers ago had a call from one of our restoration company’s, wife and kids out of town, hubby came home to a broken braided dishwasher washer line after an 18 hour shift. His ranch house was destroyed including the finished basement along with all his deer and fish trophies.
> 
> I tell and show all my customers where and how to shut their house down when they go out of town. Sure, free info, but is big time advertisement for repeat and referral.
> 
> I guess my master’s *******ness is rubbing off on me. If someone wants to check Angie’s list or google, I don’t want them as a customer. What does a baby bird say? Cheap, cheap.....



It is the smartest thing you can to for all these clueless doofs that can barely change a roll of toilet paper.....

I get a huge majic marker and I write on the drywall....... 

LOOK HERE.. >>>> Main water shut off for house..with arrows pointing to the handle..... 

They still dont get it... its like they are afraid of it ..:vs_OMG::vs_OMG:
..


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

One PMC of mine spray paints stencils in bright red “Main water shut off” so the college kids know where it is. Sometimes it helps.... sadly.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> One PMC of mine spray paints stencils in bright red “Main water shut off” so the college kids know where it is. Sometimes it helps.... sadly.



I think that they are afraid to touch the handle without a pair of gloves on because it will get their hands dirty or it could possibly have a sharp edje on it and cut their baby soft hands...:vs_OMG::vs_OMG::vs_OMG:.......


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> I guess my master’s *******ness is rubbing off on me. If someone wants to check Angie’s list or google, I don’t want them as a customer. What does a baby bird say? Cheap, cheap.....



Did I understand correctly that you don't want customers from google? I get all my good calls from that. I also have ads on kijiji and those are not good customers. I keep it there because I get a few good ones. To reduce the aggravation emails from kijiji users, I wrote in the first line the inbox wasn't monitored and no replies would be given. I also wrote premium quality services on top. That eliminated hack price shopping.

I get messages like "I have a leak under the kitchen" No question asked just a statement. I'm not wasting time on those anymore. Someone who really want service calls me ask do you have time today, or they disscuss the issue and I say when I'm available and they tell me their address.


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## TheOfficeGirl (Dec 28, 2016)

I get good customers from Angies List. We don't offer coupons or discounts but have build up a solid rating. More often than not we don't know they found us there until they leave a good review. 

We have been talking to customers about the water and temp sensors too. A lot of people don't know they're out there or how easy they are to use. Cheap peace of mind, if you ask me!


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Reminds my of my kinda screw up.

Years ago while working for a development company and running all their plumbing, We did a 12 family townhome, it was around 170' long and 30' front to back. They called me in from another project to finish only one unit to be mover into the next day. I ordered all my trim material to be sent to the project. I ordered a specific brand of a ford fitting to connect the water service to the to unit. I had a 2" PVC header under the crawl space of the units with QT ball valves for the main & each unit. I trimmed it out went under and connected the single unit water service, tested it all out, fired the WH up and went on my way.

Two days later since I was on another job they contacted me and I sent an apprentice over to look at a leak. He fixed it.................

A 1" service line from the 2" main had blown off the header. The tenant had hear something early in the evening but didn't contact the building manager. When the crew rolled in the next morning water was pouring out of the crawl space vents. Our crawls are 36" deep. SO the whole 170' by 30' crawl was filled with water. The ball valve was in the front and crawl access was in the rear. The apprentice had to strip down and duck underwater at the main beam to find the ball valve. It took him twice to do it.

It took about 3 days to pump the crawl out. The Ford fitting which I had specified the brand was a different brand (don't remember which, but I know it was plastic). He replaced it with the brand we usually used.

About a week later the company owner was out on the same job I was. He pulled me over to the side and said what the hell happened at this location. I knew my butt was gone. I told him I had trimmed it out and that the fitting had failed. I also told him next time if they don't send me what I request the job would just not get done. He said OK and left. Took me a while to settle down.

Then about a week later I was with my apprentice and we talked about it. He said he had already spoke with the owner and that he knew I had made the connection. The owner was just testing my, had I tried to blame it on someone else I think I would have been canned.

Moral of story, if you screw up stand up and claim it.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Down here in So. Texas we are having 29 degree days with sleet coming 
down all schools closed, lots of offices closed also, many highways having
trouble because of ICE on roadways, and flights Canceled at the two Airports,

Just not used this Extreme cold weather ! LOL


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> Down here in So. Texas we are having 29 degree days with sleet coming
> down all schools closed, lots of offices closed also, many highways having
> trouble because of ICE on roadways, and flights Canceled at the two Airports,
> 
> Just not used this Extreme cold weather ! LOL


Wait, "extreme weather"  that's a nice warm spring day here. Here it takes a snowblizzard and 12" of snow before school closes.

Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

My turn at a little story when I was a first year apprentice. My boss asked me and a plumber to go check out a leak at a mining camp called DETOUR LAKE. Needless to say it was a 5-6 hour drive on a dirt road to nowhere.

When we got there after dark we were escorted to trailer barracks two abreast, 3 in a row and 3 stories high. The man in charge showed my mechanic the floor hatch, when the hatch opened his face dropped, steam rose and a orange glow filled his face like he opened the gates of hell. I said what's wrong?

He lets me see. OH MY GOD! The custodian said I didn't want to say it on the phone and this has to stay between us because we have hundred of workers here. The guys have been complaining for several weeks about a smell. The full length of the trailers had a sea of $hit. The hanger that was screwed in the wood had ripped out and the 6 or 8" cast iron main(can't remember between sizes) split at the joint. 

We had to get miners boots and wade through crouched as it was like a 4 foot ceiling, our faces near the stink and the floating blueberries were a 1/2" from overflowing into our boots! What a mess to behold with steam rising from the fermenting $hit & pi$$. Anyway we fixed the hanger and left. They had to shut down the place, call pump trucks and decontaminate the place. Hundred thousand dollar plus to decontaminate.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> Down here in So. Texas we are having 29 degree days with sleet coming
> down all schools closed, lots of offices closed also, many highways having
> trouble because of ICE on roadways, and flights Canceled at the two Airports,
> 
> Just not used this Extreme cold weather ! LOL




you are sounding like a pussey crying about 29 degree temps...


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

I am not crying I am setting in my warm Apt, but I spent 5 years in WA.
State and then 5 years in SLC, UT, which is almost as COLD !
I was just reporting on what the rest of my follow TEXANS are doing
down in Beautiful Houston, TEXAS


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango said:


> Did I understand correctly that you don't want customers from google? I get all my good calls from that. I also have ads on kijiji and those are not good customers. I keep it there because I get a few good ones. To reduce the aggravation emails from kijiji users, I wrote in the first line the inbox wasn't monitored and no replies would be given. I also wrote premium quality services on top. That eliminated hack price shopping.
> 
> I get messages like "I have a leak under the kitchen" No question asked just a statement. I'm not wasting time on those anymore. Someone who really want service calls me ask do you have time today, or they disscuss the issue and I say when I'm available and they tell me their address.


For one, I’m too stinking busy with work to look for more work. Two, my previous Master used Angie’s list and BNI for advertisement, the customers we’d get from Angie’s list were the worst. Of course I had to deal with them while he sat home smoking weed and playing video games.

Repeat and referral is all I need, if not more than I need.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

CITY to be Shut down Wednesday; Emergency personal only to work as needed, almost all Freeway overpasses closed because of Black Ice,
Major Mall Closed till further notice


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I might wear my shorts out to work today... its supposed to 
get up into the mid 40s.....now thats balmy...

got plenty of clean up work to do...... lots of iced over sump pump lines.... 

it amazes me how much stuff goes to hell and breaks down when it stays under zero for about a month..........:biggrin:


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I’m getting ready to head out myself. 38 now, high of 42. Still going to wear pants, but will skip a jacket.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> I turned off my phone last night after getting about 20 frozen pipe calls from 6 to 7.30...
> 
> their are so many pex systems in this city that we cant help them thaw out
> their plastic lines.... and all the kerosine salamanders are sold out at the hardware stores so they are basically screwed.....
> ...


How are you dealing with floods down there Mark? We’ve been swapping pumps, plugging floor drains because of overwhelmed city sewers. Such a quick thaw and rain with a high frost level is flooding everyone in a flat or low areas. More rain on the way. News said this is our 2nd worst flood since ‘75. 

I’m not having fun yet, but easier fix than freeze.

Downside is my 9y/o just came down with the flu. Mommy works in the tax field, took today off and I can’t take tomorrow off. Starting to feel funky myself.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> How are you dealing with floods down there Mark? We’ve been swapping pumps, plugging floor drains because of overwhelmed city sewers. Such a quick thaw and rain with a high frost level is flooding everyone in a flat or low areas. More rain on the way. News said this is our 2nd worst flood since ‘75.
> 
> I’m not having fun yet, but easier fix than freeze.
> 
> Downside is my 9y/o just came down with the flu. Mommy works in the tax field, took today off and I can’t take tomorrow off. Starting to feel funky myself.



Its really not been too bad here so far ..... I bought 6 sump pumps on monday and down to 3 now... Went out two nights ago and installed one for a close neighbor........

3 days ago I put in a complete system Zoeller aquanot ll and yesterday we installed another complete system again.......

When I sell these to guys with finished basements, I usually tell them that I would rather have the crap beat out of me by a girl than find 2 feet of water in my finished basement.... 

I would eventually get over the pain and humiliation of getting beat up by a girl, but the misery of a ruined flooded basement never goes away....

I might have one to do today... not sure yet........






Tuesdays https://photos.app.goo.gl/G1R8Oi9xPjl5Imzl1


yesterdays https://photos.app.goo.gl/o5NcMLQxlJNDMfD52


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Here’s the MSU campus: https://www.wxyz.com/news/news-phot...-the-campus-of-michigan-state-university#id17

They’ve even evacuated some neighborhoods.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

On the news last night they said Grand Rapids is something like 19.5’ above flood level.

These pictures are from my drive home yesterday. That one spot was about a foot deep. Normally the swamp level is about four foot lower.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Reminds me of how Houston, and So Texas looked after Harvey


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

They’re also saying this is the worst flood here second only to the one in ‘75.


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