# Just Starting out OMS...



## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

So I just opened up my OMS(Purely for Drain Cleaning)

Unfortunately the best advice on here that I've seen thus far for a OMS is to rely on personal connections....being relatively new to the city, that's not really a possibility for me.

So what other methods do people here use to draw in customers, until word-of-mouth spreads?

Currently I've signed up for Google Adwords, since ours is a "Find it when you need it" kind of service. Although I'm not 100% sure on the best keywords to use. I know "Plumber" is the most searched for, except I'm looking for Drain-cleaning calls. 

My other strategy is basically to drive around to small businesses(Esp Restaurants) in the area and offer services to the owners/managers.

Lastly I'll post something at my church, though we aren't a huge church.

I realize I picked a "crappy" time to start up, being as this is April and all, one of the slowest seasons of the year.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Do you have a website? How are you going to address things that require a licensed plumber?


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Hustle

Grab every free internet listing you can think of then keep searching for more. 

Take all that free time you have and start making connections, stop at businessess and make new contacts, visit local eateries where the old guys go for coffee and start hanging out. 

Join the chamer of commerce and go to free meetings, hopefully they have leads groups. 

Find some realtors to hook up with. 

Hook up with plumbers who don't do drains and make a deal promising you won't steal customers. 

For the short term consider signing up with good Home Warranties company. 

Put flyers on doors. 

Cards on every free board at resturants, supply houses, big box stores. 

Have card handy and talk to every single person you can about your business. 

Make sure you have a marked vehicle and park in well traveled areas. 

Open accounts at local hardware and do regular business there so they know you and want to recommend you. 

Hustle.

You and your business will succeed and grow based on how much you hustle.


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

I am strictly word of mouth. 

Do good work and listen to your customers, and more work will come. It will take time.

Try and hookup with a few plumbers, and let them know about you, they can pass your name and you can pass theirs.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Sub out for busy plumbers until you can afford not too


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Plumbducky said:


> I am strictly word of mouth.
> 
> Do good work and listen to your customers, and more work will come. It will take time.
> 
> Try and hookup with a few plumbers, and let them know about you, they can pass your name and you can pass theirs.




No advertising for me either. I have around 10 plumbers that refer me out. It's one of my best assets other than repeat & word of mouth.

Do a great job at a reasonable rate and they will swarm to you.


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> Hustle Grab every free internet listing you can think of then keep searching for more./QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Tounces said:


> ...Unfortunately the best advice on here that I've seen thus far for a OMS is to rely on personal connections....being relatively new to the city, that's not really a possibility for me...


Those connections don't just happen because you have lived somewhere for a long time. They are born out of bold determination. There is a huge difference between people you happen to know vs. people you are networking with for business purposes.

The ability to forge those networking opportunities is the key to a OMS's success. Businesses can buy their way into those relationships but unless you have a few hundred large laying around waiting to be spent, you can't afford it.

Face to face, one on one. That is the strength you must make your own. Period.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

plungerboy said:


> Hoosier Plumber said:
> 
> 
> > Hustle Grab every free internet listing you can think of then keep searching for more./QUOTE]
> ...


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

Why is this bad.? For a few $ they can post your company information on over 60+ web pages and you can post in one spot and they will rebroadcast it to other pages. To me this seems like less computer work for a plumber. 

Are you referring to reputation management?


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

ChrisConnor said:


> Do you have a website? How are you going to address things that require a licensed plumber?


Yes, I have a website. I have a friend who is a website designer.

And I'm going to have another company I refer for anything that requires a licensed plumber in this area, such as digs and whatnot.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

plungerboy said:


> Why is this bad.? For a few $ they can post your company information on over 60+ web pages and you can post in one spot and they will rebroadcast it to other pages. To me this seems like less computer work for a plumber.
> 
> Are you referring to reputation management?


I'm actually reasonably computer savvy, and I have a couple friends who are computer engineers.

www.familyrooter.co is my website.

I'm mostly following what Hoosier mentioned, although some of it I'm not really sure how to do.

Where exactly do I find these plumbers who don't like drain work? I mean I know that includes most plumbers, but where would I find them?

I will have to look into the Home Warranties thing, I hadn't considered that. 

My van IS marked....but, only with a magnet on the doors. That's the most I can afford right now.

I did have a Heating and Air small business who wants to use me for their customers - however, because it's April, their business is dead right now.

Plumbducky - I'd love to be word of mouth - but until I actually have customers, it's kinda hard for word to spread.

I will check out Yext, however, I've already signed up for the biggest websites, like Yelp, Google, Angie's list, and Bing. I'll get signed up for the smaller ones soon.



Does anyone here actually use Google Adwords? I've started using it, but it has like a MILLION options, so it's a learn-as-I-go process. 

The top two adwords that get clicks for my ad are "Plumber" and "Drain Cleaner". Unfortunately Plumber got like 350 views and Drain Cleaner only got like 80. What makes this difficulty is when someone looking for Plumber clicks on my website they realize it's just for drain cleaning...and it costs me money. Yet....nearly everyone who actually wants a Drain Cleaner actually types in "Plumber" because customers mostly don't know the difference.

It's kind of an annoying aspect of Drain Cleaning. We don't fit into a "Category". Even most websites I have to list under the "Plumber" category because no drain cleaning one exists.


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

It is all about networking, always networking.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Your prices are going to overwork and under pay you. Those prices get your foot in the door for repair but you're not even licensed to make the repair. Maybe raising prices so they're not a loss leader would be better. 

Go to the supply house and look at the trucks and vans. Guys with utility pickup trucks and no crane are probably not drain cleaners. Go up and introduce yourself.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

If you stay busy those prices might earn you a living. But as GJ pointed out, the real money is in the repair.

I really like the simplicity of your site. Very functional. Personally, I think you need to ditch the 25% giveaway to any charity and just do your own personal charity work for free. But when you go to work, charge for it. I take offense with the 10% senior discount as well, but at least you have a chance at shouldering a 10% loss. From your posts, you don't sound as though you are flushed enough with cash to be giving a fourth of your revenue away to strangers.

You should rethink having your home address on the site. If you feel compelled to give an address (can't imagine why), it's better to use a PO Box.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

To be honest, I'm only looking to earn a living, right now.

Perhaps once I'm a little more established I can raise a little bit.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Good point on the home address perhaps I should eliminate that.

I don't mind taking the hit for charities....for one - I know they operate on very low budgets, and for two - working for them could help me network with anyone they're connected to. 

I don't understand why the 10% discount for seniors would be offensive.

My expenses are pretty low, so as long as I can get even 2 customers a day, I can do pretty well with just my drain cleaning.

I will look into what sort of plumbing I can legally do in this area unlicensed - some areas I know will let you do replacement of existing inside drain pipe if you keep it the same way, or replace things like faucets, etc. I'll have to talk to the plumbing board.


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

Are those prices for the job or the hour. Any exclusions. Like code approved clean out etc.
Like this company.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Tounces said:


> ...I don't understand why the 10% discount for seniors would be offensive...


Why should your younger customers pay extra just so your older customers can get a discount? The young ones are already footing the bill for elderly entitlements through their taxes. Isn't that enough?

Same as a military discount...

Why should the civilians that are already supporting the military through their taxes, be forced to pay extra for personal services so military personnel can pay less?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm military and don't believe in military discounts. Serving was enough.....we're not entitled.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

gear junkie said:


> I'm military and don't believe in military discounts. Serving was enough.....we're not entitled.


Agreed.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

One time on Sharktank the sharks dismissed a potential investment because they thought the person should have established the business first and foremost then begin charitable giving. Take that for what its worth. 

Low prices: Low prices are such a tricky subject. Every new owner is convinced that is the only way to go, every seasoned owner knows its nothing but Bull****. In time you will learn, until then work for wages. Although when you consider the amount of business owners trying to give you the same advice, there might just be something to it. 

My list: Those where or are things I have done personally by suggestion from others or things I came up with on my own. Again, if I had to sum it up to one word, Hustle is my choice. Sitting back waiting for the phone to ring or work to come your way ain't cutting it. 

I found that work found me when I was away from my office/home in the early days. When I sat at the home office fretting nothing got done. 

How do you find plumbers who don't do drain cleaning? Well I see that you have two choices. 1. Telepathy: Learn to read minds and then maybe you can find some one. 2. Ask questions: What does it hurt to ask a plumber if they do drain services, or need a drain person? 

Your rates: How will you ever fund growth if you are only working for a wage?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Tounces said:


> To be honest, *I'm only looking to earn a living,* right now.
> 
> Perhaps once I'm a little more established I can raise a little bit.


Then stop right here and go work for someone else. It'll be much easier.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> If you stay busy those prices might earn you a living. But as GJ pointed out, the real money is in the repair.
> 
> I really like the simplicity of your site. Very functional. Personally, I think you need to ditch the 25% giveaway to any charity and just do your own personal charity work for free. But when you go to work, charge for it. I take offense with the 10% senior discount as well, but at least you have a chance at shouldering a 10% loss. From your posts, you don't sound as though you are flushed enough with cash to be giving a fourth of your revenue away to strangers.
> 
> You should rethink having your home address on the site. If you feel compelled to give an address (can't imagine why), it's better to use a PO Box.




Why lose the address ? You need an address for Google & Bing maps also some others. I've had several people tell me they called me because my listed address was the closest to their location. Even though when they called I could have been the furthest away, lol !

I make a very handsome living from a similar pricing structure. I had two people kind of freak about my prices in the last week. I guess it's all about the area.

The only discounts I offer are for PM's & a few people that I get a lot of work from every year.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Tounces said:


> I'm actually reasonably computer savvy, and I have a couple friends who are computer engineers.
> 
> www.familyrooter.co is my website.
> 
> ...




How much does Adwords cost you per click ? Are you allowed to show your phone number in the heading so people wouldn't have to click to contact you ?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

AssTyme said:


> Why lose the address ? You need an address for Google & Bing maps also some others. I've had several people tell me they called me because my listed address was the closest to their location. Even though when they called I could have been the furthest away, lol !
> 
> I make a very handsome living from a similar pricing structure. I had two people kind of freak about my prices in the last week. I guess it's all about the area.
> 
> The only discounts I offer are for PM's & a few people that I get a lot of work from every year.


It is his home where his family sleeps at night....that's why.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> It is his home where his family sleeps at night....that's why.



If someone wants to find you bad enough they most likely will one way or another.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

As far as the discounts go - I would frankly give everyone a 10% discount if it brought business in, but there's no practical way to do that and still honestly call it a discount. I live next to a military base, so it's simply another way to bring in business. 

Also - most people in this area feel different than you guys. Military and Seniors tend to expect a discount. I'm not going to stand on principle at the cost of losing business, not when the principle really isn't all that important.

That being said - I decided my prices -before- the discount. So other people aren't really paying extra, I am simply taking a small hit.

As far as exclusions go - those are going to be on the back of the invoice that will be signed to authorize the work. I can't put them on the website because then not everyone may be guaranteed to see them. Although I should add in that over 110 ft is extra. 

30 day Refund though? How can any company afford to do that? What do they do...reclog the line?


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> One time on Sharktank the sharks dismissed a potential investment because they thought the person should have established the business first and foremost then begin charitable giving. Take that for what its worth.
> 
> Low prices: Low prices are such a tricky subject. Every new owner is convinced that is the only way to go, every seasoned owner knows its nothing but Bull****. In time you will learn, until then work for wages. Although when you consider the amount of business owners trying to give you the same advice, there might just be something to it.
> 
> ...



As far as prices go - trust me - I don't -want- to work for cheap. But until I can justify the higher cost with a least a good reputation, I don't want to sit at home waiting on calls all the time either.

Once I work up a reputation, at least online anyway, get some stuff like a Camera and a jetter....then I can bump that up more.

Keep in mind though, the company I worked for before this charged like $300 for a mainline....but I was only getting 20% of that. So I am still making more than I was before, even considering cost of business. Which my cost of business is pretty much gas, insurance, and adwords. I may not be making a LOT more - but I've got pretty low expenses(no vehicle payments, no credit cards, etc), so I can still save up.

Also - that $59 for extra drainlines is where I plan to make extra. I can often get an extra 2 drains done either for preventative maintenance or ones that they never "got around to", that doubles my sales at a job.


"2. Ask questions: What does it hurt to ask a plumber if they do drain services, or need a drain person? "

I understand that part. I meant where do you actually find these people? All I can think of is the one plumbing supply store in the area, except that most of the people there work for companies.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

AssTyme said:


> How much does Adwords cost you per click ? Are you allowed to show your phone number in the heading so people wouldn't have to click to contact you ?


Adwords is....well, not set in stone.

I won't claim to know exactly how it works, because honestly I'm not even sure most google employees know how it works.

But anyway, each "Keyword" that you register will come up in the "ad" part when someone does a google search for that word.(But only in the area you specify) 

How high up on the page, or even what page your ad is listed, depends how much you're willing to pay for a click. 

You set a maximum "bid" for each search term, and then your bid competes against other companies at the time, and basically whoever wins gets listed highest, and then it goes on down. Except there's other factors that are taken into account too - like how accurately your keywords match your website. I have no idea how they determine that. 

In my area, a moderately sized city, bids can range from $3.00 to $12.00 per click, for plumbing-related terms. Some cities it's as high as $40.00 I've heard. 

It's subject to possible abuse, of course. Your competitors could click your ad every day and cost you money, which sucks. However you can block IP addresses from seeing your ad. 


You CAN list your phone number as your ad - however, I think that's only for cell phones, in which case, when they click on the number, it will call you, but count as a click. Of course - the very fact it calls you is likely more worthwhile than just going to your website. 


There's other perks as well. You can make it so your ad only runs certain hours of the day or days of the week, like when you are open. And you can pause it at any time.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Also - Asstyme is correct - in order to appear on google maps and get reviews - you need a physical address listed.

I'm really good at getting people to leave reviews(I had 50 in less than 6 months working for another company), so I need to have that be an option.

Since Google is like 95% of all online searches, that's pretty vital. 

Although I can remove it from my actual website. 

Oh, and thankfully the company I got all those reviews for is in another city . 

It would suck having to compete against my own reviews


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> Then stop right here and go work for someone else. It'll be much easier.


Actually no. I HATE working for other people.

Even if I only ever made the exact same thing I made working for someone else - the freedom to make my own choices is worth the extra work.


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

Tounces said:


> I'm really good at getting people to leave reviews(I had 50 in less than 6 months working for another company),D


Are the reviews being post for you organic or What incentives are you offering for your customers to leave reviews?


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

plungerboy said:


> Are the reviews being post for you organic or What incentives are you offering for your customers to leave reviews?


Well, that's just it, I don't offer any incentive other than good service.

You see I learned one really important thing - people who like your service have no reason NOT to leave you a good review. So merely asking them if they would leave one is sufficient reason for them to do so. But the real trick is this - you have make sure they leave you a review the same day that you give them service - otherwise, they'll forget, and the opportunity will be missed.

With the company I was working for - that was easy. I told each customer, that if they left me a review by the end of the day - the company I was working for would give me $5.00. 

Now technically that was an omission of truth. While it's true my company would give me $5.00, the review didn't actually have to be left by the end of the day. 

I will have to come up with something different for my own company, of course, since that won't be true anymore. But I'm sure I can come up with something that can make sure they don't procrastinate leaving a review.


I suppose some of the reviews people left might be considered "Generic" in the fact they didn't really put much effort into it. But most people once they sat down at their computer, wrote up something genuine.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Oh and there is a website used for tracking reviews from most all websites that can come in handy, just to be able to keep track.

www.reviewbuzz.com


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Tounces said:


> As far as prices go - trust me - I don't -want- to work for cheap. But until I can justify the higher cost with a least a good reputation, I don't want to sit at home waiting on calls all the time either.
> 
> Once I work up a reputation, at least online anyway, get some stuff like a Camera and a jetter....then I can bump that up more.
> 
> ...



So your not that good at what you do or your equipment is inferior? Are you getting the drain any less open that the 300.00 your former employer charged? 

My friend you have a lot to learn about business and I hope you learn it fast. Ellen Rohr - Where did the money go and What should I charge should be purchased tonight and read 3 times each before the next weekend. 

This is not meant to be unfriendly and I am not trying to be an ass. I am trying to save you years of working for less than what you are worth and falling for that tired ass line of "I am just not worth that much." 

I pissed around with pricing for probably 4 years before I finally accepted what I should really be charging. Last year was great and guess what, Uncle Sam took a great big wet bit out of my ass. But the good news is this. Now that we are charging what should have been charged years ago we are gaining ground on that bill. 

If I had to name one of the biggest regrets I've had as a business owner it is not knowing my finances well enough soon enough and not charging enough. 

Since you have free time get those books download them and order paperback. Read them until you know them back and forth then sit down and create a real budget for where you want to be not where you are. 

If you do not charge enough you will never be able to afford growth and a real compensation


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> So your not that good at what you do or your equipment is inferior? Are you getting the drain any less open that the 300.00 your former employer charged?
> 
> My friend you have a lot to learn about business and I hope you learn it fast. Ellen Rohr - Where did the money go and What should I charge should be purchased tonight and read 3 times each before the next weekend.
> 
> ...


My employer offered a free Camera video inspection with a drain opening. So yeah, they are providing more service. Of course, obviously this is just with the intent of selling a dig, but I try to look at things from the perspective of the customer.

I get that you aren't trying to be an ass - and I am not unappreciative of advice.

The irony is of course I'll probably get the drain opened better than while working for my former employer, because I can use my own discretion as to the quality and time spent on my work, not my employers. 

Believe me - I am not suggesting that my work is worth less. I just want to get on my feet(At least for a few months) before I try higher rates. I can't risk not getting calls, and I don't have magnets on every person's Fridge in this city like other companies do. 

The biggest thing I need is those customer reviews. Right now people have no reason to trust me.

I'll look into the books though.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Tounces said:


> My employer offered a free Camera video inspection with a drain opening. So yeah, they are providing more service. Of course, obviously this is just with the intent of selling a dig, but I try to look at things from the perspective of the customer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tounces,
I really appreciate your honesty in expressing your reasons for what you are doing. I hope you understand the following is meant as constructive advice and not to belittle or insult. It's just I genuinely believe you are shooting yourself in the foot. So here's the question...

What would you do if you weren't afraid. Between the lines of your statements, all I see is fear. Fear of doing what is needed due to a lack of confidence in yourself. You will be much more successful as a business person when you can get past your own insecurites. 

Getting past them does not always mean getting over them. Their will always be times when you get afraid. But you must not let that overrule smart business decisions on the best ways to cultivate and keep customers.

Your reasons sound more like excuses. Don't try to justify things that experienced business operators are telling you flat out are mistakes. Sit back and ponder why so many of your seemingly good ideas are not being signed off on by other business operators.

Just constructive food for thought while I am still very eager to hear of your amazing successes.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

How much are ya'll charging that mine is considered so low?

Working for one company in Denver, they charged $88 for any drain. Now obviously this is a loss-leader, since they were a major company.

Working for another company in Oklahoma City before, they charged $109 for any drain up to 50 ft, then $10 for every 10 ft afterwards(90% outside cleanouts and all very shallow there). This wasn't a loss leader, believe it or not.

Only one company I worked for actually charged 300+. 

I honestly thought $129 was reasonable for a basic drain cleaning.(Not including pulling a toilet or anything else).

I know I've seen strategies here for determining price, that involve yearly salary, profit, etc - however, all of those strategies rely on knowing at least approximately how many calls you will get in a month.

I have no idea how many calls I will get, so I can't really do the math on that right now. 

Nobody here uses Google Adwords I guess, so I'm not sure what to expect from it as far as call volume goes. 

Don't get me wrong though - I plan to adjust this as I have more information available.


And yeah - I won't kid you that there is doubt/fear in me. I mean, I'm starting a business for the first time, and I've got 5 kids and a wife to take care of. I've got all the equipment I need, uniforms, etc. But for all I know nobody may call me, and all the small restaurants that I go to might just ignore me. That is a little scary.


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## Plumberdood1 (Apr 23, 2014)

Hit up local plumbing contractors in your area. I sub all my drain cleaning to two different companies in my town. They do great work, keep my customers happy, and do not compete with my plumbing and heating company. They get referrals and I receive them back.

Oh the fear of raising your prices. Plumbing Biz just gave you great advice.
I'll add to it, you have already taken the scariest part by opening up your own shop. You stated your fine with what your charging to break even with your last job. You have to look at health insurance, retirement, and growth.
Your going to have to invest in a camera, advertising on your vehicle and on and on.

I have tried the cheap prices to get my foot in the door on new construction and it never worked out. For the most part I had to drop the customers I got in cheap with. You can never raise your prices to that crowd, no matter how good of job you do.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

That's the risk to start a biz on your own. Scary? Yes, it is but if you going to start so negative, honestly don't even try. Others like Mr Biz, Gear junkie, Hoosier Plumber (just to mention some of them) can help you better than me but I can tell you something: I went on my own for about 1.5 year now and have my ups and down like every company and it's tough but I'm positive all the time. I had questions about prices and got helped from a couple members here from Florida (never did it public but thanks to Tommy plumber and Letterrip). Know your numbers that's the key and don't be scared about your prices "you worth it".


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

How many hours do most of you work per week?

And how much is actual "on site" work?

Just curious what I'll spend the most time doing.

Working for another company, I'd generally work 10-12 hour days at least, 3 days a week, and then 14-16 hours 2 days. So say 50-70 hours.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Tounces said:


> How many hours do most of you work per week?
> 
> And how much is actual "on site" work?
> 
> ...


You are going to be in a business mindset 24-7-365. 10-12 hours a day won't feel like enough when you haven't made enough money, 10-12 hours a day will feel like minutes when your rolling in work. 

Note to Tounces: Do not neglect family during the growth process. If you sacrifice your family for business success then its just not worth it. 

As for billable time it will be 4 - 4.5 billable a day average. 

Most of your business questions are answered in Where did the money go and What should I charge.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Hahahahaha, I'm pretty sure I was already in a business mindset 24-7-365 before I even started this company.

Those books aren't plumbing-specific though are they? I mean I know there's gotta be stuff that applies to our trade that doesn't necessarily apply to a restaurant owner.

I understand the family part very well. I always make time for my little girls and my small boy, even if it's just a half hour of playing video games with them at the end of the day.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

If you're set on giving such a high discount so early while just starting out, bump your prices up 15%-25% then offer a discount. 
Ask each happy customer you work for to write a review on Yelp. Great reviews on yelp will boost your online presence.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

I don't know if ya'lls experience is any different, but I honestly wasn't expecting to be inundated with calls from Non-Profits.

I mean, at most, maybe a few a month might call, if that, so I don't think the 25% is really going to apply very often.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Tounces said:


> I don't know if ya'lls experience is any different, but I honestly wasn't expecting to be inundated with calls from Non-Profits.
> 
> I mean, at most, maybe a few a month might call, if that, so I don't think the 25% is really going to apply very often.


Word travels fast amongst discount seekers. Your discount offer may well become a self fulfilling prophecy.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Ok , I keep hearing about this "OMS" sorry I've never heard of it, what does it mean?


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

One Man Shop :thumbsup:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

JERRYMAC said:


> One Man Shop :thumbsup:



Aha, I thought it was some type of certification I've never heard of. Stupid me. Thanks


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

Tounces said:


> Hahahahaha, I'm pretty sure I was already in a business mindset 24-7-365 before I even started this company.
> 
> Those books aren't plumbing-specific though are they? I mean I know there's gotta be stuff that applies to our trade that doesn't necessarily apply to a restaurant owner.
> 
> I understand the family part very well. I always make time for my little girls and my small boy, even if it's just a half hour of playing video games with them at the end of the day.


If you looked them up then you would have your answer. :laughing:

Ellen Rohr writes to the trades professional, is married to a plumber, and has helped numerous plumbing businesses through her resources and the phone. 

My knowledge level on my business numbers jumped several levels when I read How much should I charge. What an eye opening experience. Since making that last adjusment we are now running at a much better profit level. 

Many on here including myself are trying to save you years of spinning your wheels and making a wage.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Not to be a di*k, I mean I know this site is for all of us to help each other....so, I'm giving this thread 92 pages and 8 months before the OP is asking about how to work less and make more because he's working 14 hrs a day for a wage and spending more money on fuel Than he ever imagined, has developed a customer base of absolute bottom feeders who will have no loyalty and will drop him for the first plumber to offer drain cleaning for $15 cheaper absolutely beotch when he increases his price and has no family time. Hey OP I get it, I was in yur exact same shoes. I made X at my last company and figured hey, if I just made X I'd be in great shape. Truth is, I made X quickly but soon realized, holy s**t I'm gonna go out of business. Even with low overhead, it's still overhead and needs to be covered. I don't care what your overhead is, if you haven't sat down and ran your known and estimated numbers.....fuel, insurance, interest, advertising maintenance of vehicles and equipment....one day your gonna wake up and realize you need a down payment from a customer just so you can afford to purchase their toilet from Home Depot.

Now back to the reality of things. I don't know what cost of living is in yur area so for me to tell you what you should be charging is irrelevant. I don't know what yur overhead is, so advice from me irrelevant. I don't know yur market saturation or service radius, so advice from me is irrelevant. I don't know what your competition charges so advice from me on pricing is irrelevant. However, what is not irrelevant is YOU MUST KNOW yur overhead. What is relevant is a little simple formula of overhead/billable hours plain and simple. With this formula you will achieve an understanding of why yur numbers should be what they should. I'm in my 2nd year and in no way a seasoned business owner, the last few weeks have really slowed (but that was expected because I just bought a new jetter) but by charging accordingly the last year, I can afford to take the slow time as as an opportunity to do some more marketing and hustling instead of poop my pants and wonder how I'm gonna make my mortgage. Bt here's the thing, because I know my number well, I know where I can afford to tweak things here and there. In fact, I do not do any form of advertising WHATSOEVER. Literally, I am not even on yelp, craigslist or google, you type my company name on google and my home town...crickets, nada, zilch...I am un-findable. So, I'm now at a point where I need to make that my next step, but the unique thing about me business is I'm a phone call away from a $15,000 job, in fact I have one of those starting this week that will pretty much pay off my new jetter purchase. But wha I'm thinking about wanting is consistent phone ringing, so I will be soon asking for advice on advertising I'm sure. 

So if you take anything from this thread, take knowing yur numbers front and back so that way yur not flying by the seat of yur pants.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

sierra2000 said:


> *If you're set on giving such a high discount so early while just starting out, bump your prices up 15%-25% then offer a discount. *
> Ask each happy customer you work for to write a review on Yelp. Great reviews on yelp will boost your online presence.


Actually I think is a great concept. Kohl's does this and their growth is insane while JC Penny offers low prices all the time and they're going bankrupt.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> Actually I think is a great concept. Kohl's does this and their growth is insane while JC Penny offers low prices all the time and they're going bankrupt.


Exactly! It's the sofa in the front yard effect. Put a decent sofa in front yard with free and it stays there all week...put a sign with $10.00 and the thing is taken in the middle of the night. Many People want to feel like they're getting the upper hand. I've said it to people many times before, my business is not a pawn shop where I give you my price then you counter offer. I will say, however, there is truth in my previous statement. Have you ever seen pawn stars and what goes through some people's minds. So, I can see where finding my set price, then marking it up a particular % then offering a discount of that said markup.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Unfortunately it's kind of hard to know my numbers until I've been in business at least a month or so.

Actually checking HomeAdvisor kinda gave me an idea on how much other places charge around here for a Drain Cleaning. Looks like $160 on the low end, $280 on the high end.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

It's a link about how calculate your rate but I can't find it, I got it in pdf format in my phone and email but I don't know how to copy in here. If someone know how to do it, I can send it by email, just pm me.


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## Absaroka Joe (Mar 30, 2013)

Your idea is fine, Tounces. Work cheap for a while and get your name out there. Start raising your prices in a few months when you have more work. Some repeat customers will understand your higher prices if you did good work the first time. New customers never knew the prices. Are you really allowed to remove a toilet without a plumbing license here? Also, for gods sake don't join the America hating *******s at the Chamber of Commerce as someone suggested.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

So far as I have read, The Plumbing Board does not regulate any sort of drain cleaning here, it states so right on their website.

Generally that means you CAN pull and reset a toilet...but you can't actually "replace" one.

I know that sounds stupid, but that's business politics for you.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Tounces said:


> *Unfortunately it's kind of hard to know my numbers until I've been in business at least a month or so.*
> 
> Actually checking HomeAdvisor kinda gave me an idea on how much other places charge around here for a Drain Cleaning. Looks like $160 on the low end, $280 on the high end.


It really won't be. Overhead divided by billable hours. Just curious....why not go work for someone?


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Tounces said:


> Unfortunately it's kind of hard to know my numbers until I've been in business at least a month or so.
> 
> Actually checking HomeAdvisor kinda gave me an idea on how much other places charge around here for a Drain Cleaning. Looks like $160 on the low end, $280 on the high end.


Ok! So, then after a month in business you'll know all the information you need to know for the rest of your business' life? So, lets say in your 1st month you land 5 drain jobs, your gonna base the rest of yur year on 5 snake jobs and 5 billable hours a month and perhaps $100/month in fuel. Ok, I'll buy that. So you wanna make $50k per year salary right. So after a month and 5 snake jobs you can then change yur rate to account for what you know now, which will be....$853.33/job. This will pay you your 50k and $100/month in fuel. Now out of that 50k you will need to pay your everyday personal bills, provide for your family and cover business equipment, insurance, fuels and whatnot. Yup! You'll know all you need to know about your expenses in the first month. 

And your basing your drain work off of what home advisor says the average cost is. How do you know the other companies are not collecting govt freebies (welfare, illegal unemployment or disability) how do you know some of those companies don't have a spouse who is filthy rich and they do drain work just because they want a little extra spending money. A local plumber in my area has a wife who is worth nort of $17 million, (i discovered this last month and it now makes lerfect sense as to how he can stay in business at such a rediculously cheap rate) granted he's been plumbing for 25 years, but he charges to just stay busy and some play money. So I need to equate his price in my average rate? F**K that!


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I think Tounces is Old Skool here to mess with us. Makes sense.....has anyone ever seen the 2 of them in the same place at the same time?


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

http://www.verticalresponse.com/blog/top-20-places-business-needs-listed-online/

Top 20


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> Ok! So, then after a month in business you'll know all the information you need to know for the rest of your business' life? So, lets say in your 1st month you land 5 drain jobs, your gonna base the rest of yur year on 5 snake jobs and 5 billable hours a month and perhaps $100/month in fuel. Ok, I'll buy that. So you wanna make $50k per year salary right. So after a month and 5 snake jobs you can then change yur rate to account for what you know now, which will be....$853.33/job. This will pay you your 50k and $100/month in fuel. Now out of that 50k you will need to pay your everyday personal bills, provide for your family and cover business equipment, insurance, fuels and whatnot. Yup! You'll know all you need to know about your expenses in the first month.
> 
> And your basing your drain work off of what home advisor says the average cost is. How do you know the other companies are not collecting govt freebies (welfare, illegal unemployment or disability) how do you know some of those companies don't have a spouse who is filthy rich and they do drain work just because they want a little extra spending money. A local plumber in my area has a wife who is worth nort of $17 million, (i discovered this last month and it now makes lerfect sense as to how he can stay in business at such a rediculously cheap rate) granted he's been plumbing for 25 years, but he charges to just stay busy and some play money. So I need to equate his price in my average rate? F**K that!




Well, actually I came up with my rate before looking at Home Adviser, I was just mentioning what I saw there. I'm pretty sure though that averages would make whatever numbers they come with even out.

And no, a month isn't going to tell me everything I need to know the rest of my life, not sure why you're taking that to such extremes.

However, I need at least some basis to start with. Adwords could net me zero calls for all I know, because company on there with a very poor reputation(which customers cannot see with adwords) advertises a $95 drain opening rate, which means I'd have to rely entirely on legwork.

To be honest I have no idea how I would calculate "Billable hours". I have never worked by the hour before, only by the job.

GearJunkie - I don't want to go work for someone anymore because honestly I am sick of it. I LOVE what I do for a living, I even love dealing with customers. I do not love dealing with corporate bull****, or small-company drama. 

Hoosier - I've actually been working my way through that top 20. It takes awhile though.

I question how much business, if any, some of them bring in though. I mean Google accounts for what...99% of all searches? So that leaves 1% to divide between the rest of them?


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

$129.00 for a main line? Did I read that wrong or is that by the hour?

I spent four kick butt hours pulling roots out of an infested line with my Dreel yesterday and in no way would I do that for $129.00.

I think some companies would have given up for a dig, it was the toughest one this year.

I charge by the hour. Sometimes I plow through them in and hour and sometimes not.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

fixitright said:


> $129.00 for a main line? Did I read that wrong or is that by the hour?
> 
> I spent four kick butt hours pulling roots out of an infested line with my Dreel yesterday and in no way would I do that for $129.00.
> 
> ...


I was going to give an hour and a half for that. And I would bill extra once it reached 2.

It's pretty rare I go over an hour and a half around here though for a main line.

And when I do, it's not usually roots, it's a cored(loaded) line.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

billable hours.....hours in front of a customer making money.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

There's a difference between opening a line to establish flow and restorative cleaning, consider that with your pricing.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

For only $129 it's unlikely I would give much of a warranty.

Heck for double that most places only give 30 days around here.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Find established plumbers who do not want to do drains. Over half of what I do comes from plumber leads


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

fixitright said:


> $129.00 for a main line? Did I read that wrong or is that by the hour? I spent four kick butt hours pulling roots out of an infested line with my Dreel yesterday and in no way would I do that for $129.00. I think some companies would have given up for a dig, it was the toughest one this year. I charge by the hour. Sometimes I plow through them in and hour and sometimes not.


Hey you should try the k1500b! I have your setup and I prefer the 1500. You can have your helper feed the cable up the fish tail and really speed up the process. Most sewers take us 1 1/2 hours for a 3/4/6" cutter. I Cant afford a jetter-yet


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

KoleckeINC said:


> Hey you should try the k1500b! I have your setup and I prefer the 1500. You can have your helper feed the cable up the fish tail and really speed up the process. Most sewers take us 1 1/2 hours for a 3/4/6" cutter. I Cant afford a jetter-yet


I assume you must live in an area where Outside cleanouts are the norm.

I've actually used a K-1500 before for a year or so - it's a Great machine - but it is NOT meant to be used indoors.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

I don't have any problems rodding indoors though. But I always have help. I painters tape plastic on walls and put builders paper on the floor where I set cables down. And I always run the 6" cutter.


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## heaan (Oct 23, 2012)

I pass on average 3 calls a week for unclogging to another company


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