# Septic Talk



## stillaround

Florida was trying to push a legislstion that would have required a certificate or some kind of test every 3 years but it didnt pass the vote. Also some increased advertising for a while. Theres not that much in septic tank science , is there? 
About 15 years ago they required a filter in the outlet, also about that time they went to neoprene gaskets. A lot of the septic tank companies are using the socks with styrofoam peanuts for drainfield. I like the infiltrator.. Dont see anymore #32 rock being used.


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## Wayneswilson

stillaround said:


> Florida was trying to push a legislstion that would have required a certificate or some kind of test every 3 years but it didnt pass the vote. Also some increased advertising for a while. Theres not that much in septic tank science , is there?
> About 15 years ago they required a filter in the outlet, also about that time they went to neoprene gaskets. A lot of the septic tank companies are using the socks with styrofoam peanuts for drainfield. I like the infiltrator.. Dont see anymore #32 rock being used.


Texas currently uses this same system. Every three years you must have your septic system tested and provided to the state, fines etc can come from this. It also requires endorsements from the state to operate and install septic. Downside is septic systems are no longer under plumbers rule. There is a separate license now. It does bring inn a lot of reoccurring business.


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## Tommy plumber

stillaround said:


> Florida was trying to push a legislstion that would have required a certificate or some kind of test every 3 years but it didnt pass the vote. Also some increased advertising for a while. Theres not that much in septic tank science , is there?
> About 15 years ago they required a filter in the outlet, also about that time they went to neoprene gaskets. A lot of the septic tank companies are using the socks with styrofoam peanuts for drainfield. I like the infiltrator.. Dont see anymore #32 rock being used.


 






Someone was telling me about the Infiltrator system. I looked it up on-line. Looks simple.


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## Tommy plumber

Tommy plumber said:


> Someone was telling me about the Infiltrator system. I looked it up on-line. Looks simple.


 



http://www.infiltratorsystems.com/images/g_inground_large.jpg


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## skitian

stillaround said:


> Florida was trying to push a legislstion that would have required a certificate or some kind of test every 3 years but it didnt pass the vote. Also some increased advertising for a while. Theres not that much in septic tank science , is there?
> About 15 years ago they required a filter in the outlet, also about that time they went to neoprene gaskets. A lot of the septic tank companies are using the socks with styrofoam peanuts for drainfield. I like the infiltrator.. Dont see anymore #32 rock being used.



Maryland must still be in the stone age then. All I've done in the past 8 years is use #32 rock. The only "fancy" thing we've done is nitrogen removal, which is just an extra chamber in the tank with an agitator.


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## stillaround

skitian said:


> Maryland must still be in the stone age then. All I've done in the past 8 years is use #32 rock. The only "fancy" thing we've done is nitrogen removal, which is just an extra chamber in the tank with an agitator.


 The agitator sounds interesting. Im convinced the changes from rock and perforated pipe is to save money/time. The socks with the styrofoam peanuts clog faster....and wouldnt you know it , thats the preferred method of the septic contractors around here. Maryland is probably commited to a better standard ...as opposed to behind the times.


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## deerslayer

Personnaly I know very little about septic systemsand I would benefit from others knowledge! I am in


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## rjbphd

I'm on septic system... how many other plumbers here in the PZ are???


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## deerslayer

I am on a septic as well


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## rjbphd

deerslayer said:


> I am on a septic as well


 Never dump the leftover pickle juice in the septic system!


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## bulldozer

I'm on septic and love it


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## plbgbiz

rjbphd said:


> Never dump the leftover pickle juice in the septic system!


Why? Kills the live acton?


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## bulldozer

Because I don't have a 80 dollar per month sewer bill and when a city main backs up I don't have my neighbors mess in my basement. They are forcing city sewers down everyones throats and assessing them 10s of thousands of dollars for the right of way work then people have to pay a contractor on top of that. All for the goodness of a nice sewer bill on tap of that.


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## RealLivePlumber

My rock and pipe system is original to the house, 1959.

Infiltrators and styrofoam, what a joke.


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## Gettinit

rjbphd said:


> Never dump the leftover pickle juice in the septic system!


Pickle juice, it whitens teeth. :jester::thumbup:


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## rjbphd

plbgbiz said:


> Why? Kills the live acton?


 Correct, pickle juice will kill the baterica needed to digest the crap in the system... as well there's list of material that shouldn't go in septic system... anyone???


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## Redwood

rjbphd said:


> Correct, pickle juice will kill the baterica needed to digest the crap in the system... as well there's list of material that shouldn't go in septic system... anyone???


A few ounces of pickle juice, bleach or anything else going into a 1,000 gallon plus tank isn't going to do much... :laughing:

But yes there are things you shouldn't do with a septic system....

A gallon of bleach in a single wash load should be avoided.... :laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber

rjbphd said:


> Correct, pickle juice will kill the baterica needed to digest the crap in the system... as well there's list of material that shouldn't go in septic system... anyone???


In a perfect world, the only thing to go in a septic tank would be waste water from a water closet, nothing else.

Clothes washing is the worst. Lint and detergent.

Hand soap nowadays is all "antibacterial". We search out plain old soap.


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## SewerRat

rjbphd said:


> Correct, pickle juice will kill the baterica needed to digest the crap in the system... as well there's list of material that shouldn't go in septic system... anyone???


The following aren't good but like Redwood said they can be used sparingly without ruining the system.
Bleach
Antibacterial soaps

The following should NEVER be drained into a septic.
Chemicals
Drain cleaners
Paint and thinners
Condoms and feminine products
Disposable wipes
Kitty litter
Cigarette butts

I'm sure there's more that I forgot.


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## brian phillips

Can't use the rock here in Florida with the chambers. The health dept. says the manufactures of the chamber style drain field don't need rock and there fore the health dept will not approve chambers with rock. Most septic guys have gone back to black perforated pipe with Rock. A septic guy told me if you used rock with the chambers, then that would be the best. Not sure, cause I don't do drain fields. Most septic company's recommend pumping tank every 3-5 years, but I have some customers that say they never had their tanks pumped. I think that now a days with all the cleaners, soaps, etc going into the septic, the cleaners, soaps, etc kill the natural enzymes that break down solids in the tank.Any thoughts?

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## rjbphd

brian phillips said:


> Can't use the rock here in Florida with the chambers. The health dept. says the manufactures of the chamber style drain field don't need rock and there fore the health dept will not approve chambers with rock. Most septic guys have gone back to black perforated pipe with Rock. A septic guy told me if you used rock with the chambers, then that would be the best. Not sure, cause I don't do drain fields. Most septic company's recommend pumping tank every 3-5 years, but I have some customers that say they never had their tanks pumped. I think that now a days with all the cleaners, soaps, etc going into the septic, the cleaners, soaps, etc kill the natural enzymes that break down solids in the tank.Any thoughts?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 If ya treat it with Bio Clean regauraly.. that will keep the bacterica count up...
Another thing to avoid, throwing old meds in the drains is a no no... as well people who on blood thinner meds tend to screw the system up, esp with the air injection system..


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## Redwood

brian phillips said:


> Most septic company's recommend pumping tank every 3-5 years, but I have some customers that say they never had their tanks pumped.


The money they are saving from not having their tank pumped is a drop in the bucket compared to the new drainfield they will be putting in.... :yes:


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## Gettinit

Redwood said:


> The money they are saving from not having their tank pumped is a drop in the bucket compared to the new drainfield they will be putting in.... :yes:


Especially around here. Seems as though they are getting stricter about what perks enough and how it should be handled.


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## stillaround

Ive heard of shoving a pipe down in the drain field rock with compressed air to revitalize but its just a story so far. Ive redone my drainfield 3 times. 1st time I was cocky and put in 6" of rock and just a bit more after that and it didnt last long...the 2nd time I put a foot of rock in and perforated pipe and it lasted 5 years...lastly the infiltrator and its been holding for over 10 years. The last flood had it all under water but after it went down ..so far so good. We had 5 kids and the laundry was not separated out which would have helped. They used to tell people to run the laundry in a barrel but the laws have caught up to this area.
The proper way here with rock is 6" rock, lay the pipe on top, and then fill to 12" rock..


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## rjbphd

stillaround said:


> Ive heard of shoving a pipe down in the drain field rock with compressed air to revitalize but its just a story so far. Ive redone my drainfield 3 times. 1st time I was cocky and put in 6" of rock and just a bit more after that and it didnt last long...the 2nd time I put a foot of rock in and perforated pipe and it lasted 5 years...lastly the infiltrator and its been holding for over 10 years. The last flood had it all under water but after it went down ..so far so good. We had 5 kids and the laundry was not separated out which would have helped. They used to tell people to run the laundry in a barrel but the laws have caught up to this area.
> The proper way here with rock is 6" rock, lay the pipe on top, and then fill to 12" rock..


 Rock are used for capicity wize... its the soil drainage capicity is what makes or break septic system. If ya got solid clay , ur're fuxked..


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## stillaround

rjbphd said:


> Rock are used for capicity wize... its the soil drainage capicity is what makes or break septic system. If ya got solid clay , ur're fuxked..


 Thats a fact....the ground and rock can get coated with either a soap scum or some water impervious coating...thats where a stirring could help. Where Im at there is sugar sand and in places in the neighborhood clay...pot luck


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## stillaround

The code here was ..for bottom of drainfield...36" above the high water table.


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## Tommy plumber

stillaround said:


> Ive heard of shoving a pipe down in the drain field rock with compressed air to revitalize but its just a story so far. Ive redone my drainfield 3 times. 1st time I was cocky and put in 6" of rock and just a bit more after that and it didnt last long...the 2nd time I put a foot of rock in and perforated pipe and it lasted 5 years...*lastly the infiltrator and its* *been holding for over 10 years.* The last flood had it all under water but after it went down ..so far so good. We had 5 kids and the laundry was not separated out which would have helped. They used to tell people to run the laundry in a barrel but the laws have caught up to this area.
> The proper way here with rock is 6" rock, lay the pipe on top, and then fill to 12" rock..


 






I don't install drain fields. I've been approached once or twice by friends complaining about their septic systems. If I replace their drainfields, would you recommend the Infiltrator system? Another plumber was telling me about the Infiltrator system. But I have zero experience with drainfield installations. It's part of the scope of a licensed plumber in our state, but many plumbers as you know, shy away from septic work. It's left to septic contractors.


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## stillaround

A few repairs and extensions. I don't like pulling permits for it. They get $2500 for them if it's not oversized or a mound system if I had an excavator or backhoe that needed use I would consider it. Laundry tubs in a garage or separate out a washing machine mostly.


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## stillaround

Yes on the infiltrator. About $45 for 8 feet

It goes thru the health department and not building dept. Permit is somewhere around $300.....Ive hired out the backhoe work and come out ok on the ones that dont get mentioned......


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## cbeck

rjbphd said:


> I'm on septic system... how many other plumbers here in the PZ are???


I'm on septic


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## Fullmetal Frank

cbeck said:


> I'm on septic


My house is on a septic tank.:thumbsup:


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## SlickRick

Me too.


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## brian phillips

I am in septic. The drain field is 3 pipes bundled together. I am not sure of the name of it but it was done in 2005 and I have to get it replaced soon. A septic contractor told me this bundle system is one of the worst.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Mississippiplum

Septic and well and I love it

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## retired rooter

me too 27 yrs pump every 3 rework field lines once 5 yrs back


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## High-plumbing

We've had a lot of problems with the infiltrators. Failing after ten years. Health department let them undersize all the systems.


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## SewerRat

Tommy plumber said:


> If I replace their drainfields, would you recommend the Infiltrator system?





stillaround said:


> Yes on the infiltrator.


Infiltrators are used almost exclusively in this area. We were no exception until we went from just installing to servicing them. What I have seen in the few years that we have been doing service has caused us to switch back to the tried-and-true perforated pipe and rock drainfields almost exclusively. In fact, we just installed our first chamber system in almost two years a couple weeks ago. A lot of this reason is that Idaho previously gave a 40% reduction in size because of the extra storage capacity they provide. This is of course an Idaho specific problem but I know some other states give a percentage-based size reduction when using chambers. Because it is a manufactured product you now have lobbyists and politics involved, working toward special provisions for their product. If you decide to use them make sure you are building a full-size field and don't take any reductions offered by your state if there are any. We have seen a high rate of failures on chamber systems between 4 to about 14 years old. Sure, I can build chamber systems bigger than required, but not if I'm bidding against a guy that is cutting all the corners he can. The state called their own BS a few years ago and cut the reduction to 25%, but that is still BS in my opinion. I couldn't give a hairy canary how much water a drainfield can store, it still takes square feet of soil to absorb the water. 

This was driven home to me in a very real way today. Our last pumping job of the day was referred by a local plumber, and when he gave the address my brother said it sounded familiar. Sure enough, it was a system we installed just a two months over four years ago. Total failure. It was a perfect storm, multiple contributing factors, but it makes me look bad and when I think that if I had installed a pipe/rock system it would be 54% larger it makes me sick. The situation makes me look bad, even though I did exactly what was required by the inspector and it passed all inspections. 

Other contributing factors were poor soils and (suspected) above average flows, due to the tenant admitting to habits that contribute to excessive water usage. Combine that with a reduced size and you've got a failure. Because of their soils they really needed a pressure dosed sand mound but the owner squirmed at the price tag and the inspector caved and allowed them to go the cheaper route and it came back to bite everybody. I knew it was coming, but this is the first time I have seen a system I installed fail. Lesson learned: next time I'm not comfortable, I'll walk away.

There are numerous other reasons why we have gone back to pipe/rock. Number one, if HO's don't pump often enough a lot of the solids that carry out to the field will collect in the perf pipes. A lot if times we can get the system going again by jetting the lines. It's amazing sometimes how plugged they are, and how completely they recover when we simply jet them clean. With chambers, there is no pipe or channel for the jetter to follow, so jetting doesn't work with them, although I did see somebody here or on DCF mention using a high flow 65 gpm jetter in chambers with some success. Another advantage to pipe/rock, if your jurisdiction allows, is you can build wider trenches or beds, and get your required square footage in a smaller footprint as opposed to the 3' trenches you are stuck with when using chambers. Also, if there is any chance of traffic, livestock, etc. over the field, the rock will stand up to the weight much better than chambers, which we have see collapse from too much traffic. 

I'm not totally against chambers, but I am a little disenchanted with them at this point. I will only use them when absolutely necessary, and I will not take any reductions if at all possible. The only way I would is if it was a replacement system where I could leave the old one hooked up to do what it could to take the pressure off the new one.


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## High-plumbing

SewerRat said:


> Infiltrators are used almost exclusively in this area. We were no exception until we went from just installing to servicing them. What I have seen in the few years that we have been doing service has caused us to switch back to the tried-and-true perforated pipe and rock drainfields almost exclusively. In fact, we just installed our first chamber system in almost two years a couple weeks ago. A lot of this reason is that Idaho previously gave a 40% reduction in size because of the extra storage capacity they provide. This is of course an Idaho specific problem but I know some other states give a percentage-based size reduction when using chambers. Because it is a manufactured product you now have lobbyists and politics involved, working toward special provisions for their product. If you decide to use them make sure you are building a full-size field and don't take any reductions offered by your state if there are any. We have seen a high rate of failures on chamber systems between 4 to about 14 years old. Sure, I can build chamber systems bigger than required, but not if I'm bidding against a guy that is cutting all the corners he can. The state called their own BS a few years ago and cut the reduction to 25%, but that is still BS in my opinion. I couldn't give a hairy canary how much water a drainfield can store, it still takes square feet of soil to absorb the water.
> 
> This was driven home to me in a very real way today. Our last pumping job of the day was referred by a local plumber, and when he gave the address my brother said it sounded familiar. Sure enough, it was a system we installed just a two months over four years ago. Total failure. It was a perfect storm, multiple contributing factors, but it makes me look bad and when I think that if I had installed a pipe/rock system it would be 54% larger it makes me sick. The situation makes me look bad, even though I did exactly what was required by the inspector and it passed all inspections.
> 
> Other contributing factors were poor soils and (suspected) above average flows, due to the tenant admitting to habits that contribute to excessive water usage. Combine that with a reduced size and you've got a failure. Because of their soils they really needed a pressure dosed sand mound but the owner squirmed at the price tag and the inspector caved and allowed them to go the cheaper route and it came back to bite everybody. I knew it was coming, but this is the first time I have seen a system I installed fail. Lesson learned: next time I'm not comfortable, I'll walk away.
> 
> There are numerous other reasons why we have gone back to pipe/rock. Number one, if HO's don't pump often enough a lot of the solids that carry out to the field will collect in the perf pipes. A lot if times we can get the system going again by jetting the lines. It's amazing sometimes how plugged they are, and how completely they recover when we simply jet them clean. With chambers, there is no pipe or channel for the jetter to follow, so jetting doesn't work with them, although I did see somebody here or on DCF mention using a high flow 65 gpm jetter in chambers with some success. Another advantage to pipe/rock, if your jurisdiction allows, is you can build wider trenches or beds, and get your required square footage in a smaller footprint as opposed to the 3' trenches you are stuck with when using chambers. Also, if there is any chance of traffic, livestock, etc. over the field, the rock will stand up to the weight much better than chambers, which we have see collapse from too much traffic.
> 
> I'm not totally against chambers, but I am a little disenchanted with them at this point. I will only use them when absolutely necessary, and I will not take any reductions if at all possible. The only way I would is if it was a replacement system where I could leave the old one hooked up to do what it could to take the pressure off the new one.


Thank you everything I wanted to say from the treasure valley


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## drs

I would not use that "I" named product. I have Cultec by me and I have had no problems with their products.

Matter of fact when the "I" company hung me out to dry on a VIP job that would have gave them major PR, Cultec came down and helped me out. 

Cultec is the way to go.


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## drs

Ratz:

There is a way to bring back a failed chamber system and another mid west company told me how and it works for them and I can't see it not working by me if needed.


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## SewerRat

Do you have a link to this Cultec outfit you speak of?


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## drs

SewerRat said:


> Do you have a link to this Cultec outfit you speak of?


 
Cultec.com


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## retired rooter

http://www.terraliftinternational.com/testimonials.html I got a salesman to demo this for my yard years ago, I had a cleanout on my field line side of my tank and it was full, after he blasted away at my yard(field lines) the water dropped in my cleanout.
To make a long story short, it lasted approx 3 or 4 months, thats when I called in a real septic guy(friend of mine) he found a dry field line ran a bypass line from flooded to the dry line added some gravel, my fingers are still crossed and I have tank pumped approx every 3 yrs ,and I have a sewer tap in my front yard, sewer taxes are hell here. Our county is largest county to bankrup in US (jefferson county alabama) over a huge sewer restoration project when the county took over city sewers. Alot of polititions are in jail over it also.


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## Redwood

retired rooter said:


> Sewer taxes are hell here. Our county is largest county to bankrup in US (jefferson county alabama) over a huge sewer restoration project when the county took over city sewers. Alot of polititions are in jail over it also.


Ah your county was the one that got caught up in that United States of America v. Carollo, Goldberg and Grimm case where GE Capital got caught doing some of the tricks they learned from the Mafia... :laughing:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-scam-wall-street-learned-from-the-mafia-20120620


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## SewerRat

retired rooter said:


> http://www.terraliftinternational.com/testimonials.html I got a salesman to demo this for my yard years ago, I had a cleanout on my field line side of my tank and it was full, after he blasted away at my yard(field lines) the water dropped in my cleanout.
> To make a long story short, it lasted approx 3 or 4 months, thats when I called in a real septic guy


I wouldn't touch Terra Lift with a ten foot pole. That technology has more potential to endanger lives than an illegal cross connection does.


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## Tommy plumber

Redwood said:


> Ah your county was the one that got caught up in that United States of America v. Carollo, Goldberg and Grimm case where GE Capital got caught doing some of the tricks they learned from the Mafia... :laughing:
> 
> http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-scam-wall-street-learned-from-the-mafia-20120620


 






Great article. The government's case centered on them proving that the bond companies orchestrated and participated in 'bid rigging'. The big boys, Bank of America, Chase, just to name a few, paid millions of dollars in fines. 

The article points out that in spite of the guilt of the large banks in the frauds, the gov't. still hands these banks public contracts and monies to invest....


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## retired rooter

thank you , redwood ,good reading boy our corrupt commissioners took the bait hook line and sinker


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## Redwood

Tommy plumber said:


> Great article. The government's case centered on them proving that the bond companies orchestrated and participated in 'bid rigging'. The big boys, Bank of America, Chase, just to name a few, paid millions of dollars in fines.
> 
> The article points out that in spite of the guilt of the large banks in the frauds, the gov't. still hands these banks public contracts and monies to invest....


And as usual the fines amounted to an infinitely small amount of the profits they made from their illegal activities...


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## retired rooter

I am sitting here watching the news and our city(birmingham,s) mayor is looking to borrow 150 million!! :thumbup:In our area the city and jefferson county are seperate but how crazy govt gets.:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber

Had to cut-in a combo into an SDR-35 sewer line connected to a septic tank. My septic tank/drainfield experience is next to zero. Here's my question; after I cut the SDR-35 line to the existing septic tank, a rather large volume of water came back at me and into my trench. Is the drainfield so saturated that it's not taking much more water? (this was Monday, and hurricane Isaac was giving us alot of rain) or is the septic tank full? No solids came back or toilet paper, just water with some strawberries..:blink:. Could the septic tank be slightly back-pitched? 

Figured I'd post this in 'Septic Talk'. Thanks in advance.


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## Tommy plumber

You can see how wet the ditch was before I cut into the SDR-35. (The ABS in the background was not from me)


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## rjbphd

The pipe leading to septic tank is always above the water line inside tank (2") so the pipe should be dry unless using it.. the first 'compartment ' should be checked.. may have too much solids floating on top.. good septic tank guy will always check and pump thru the 1st compartment..


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## AssTyme

Did you pull the lid and check the tank level before the work ? Was everything running out fine/was there anything coming back into the home ?


Could be a back pitched line or a sag ???


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## Tommy plumber

AssTyme said:


> Did you pull the lid and check the tank level before the work ? Was everything running out fine/was there anything coming back into the home ?
> 
> 
> Could be a back pitched line or a sag ???


 






The SDR-35 had proper pitch. I didn't pull the lid. Customer had no complaints about stoppages. I might send a septic contractor over there to evaluate it. I wanted to get a few ideas from some knowledgeable people first.


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