# Vertical to horizontal drainage



## love2surf927

Got into a discussion today with a fellow plumber while installing the underground for a bathroom, I used a medium sweep 1/4 bend to go from 2" vertical stack to horizontal line, he said code calls for long turn, I always thought long turn was for horizontal to horizontal, any opinions. I use the UPC, can someone site the code that calls for this, these are the only codes I can find... anyways I changed it and do agree that it would be better to use a long turn in this case. 

706.4 Vertical drainage lines connecting with horizontal drainage
lines shall enter through 45 degree (0.79 rad) wye branches, combination
wye and one-eighth (1/8) bend branches, or other approved
fittings of equivalent sweep.


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## OldSchool

most of our fittings in Ontario are short turn.... 

the only place we need long radius is out side of the home


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

love2surf927 said:


> Got into a discussion today with a fellow plumber while installing the underground for a bathroom, I used a medium sweep 1/4 bend to go from 2" vertical stack to horizontal line, he said code calls for long turn, I always thought long turn was for horizontal to horizontal, any opinions. I use the UPC, can someone site the code that calls for this, these are the only codes I can find... anyways I changed it and do agree that it would be better to use a long turn in this case.
> 
> 706.4 Vertical drainage lines connecting with horizontal drainage
> lines shall enter through 45 degree (0.79 rad) wye branches, combination
> wye and one-eighth (1/8) bend branches, or other approved
> fittings of equivalent sweep.


When going from vertical to horizontal you use a long radius 90. That's how I was taught !!!


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## plbgbiz

In our 2009 IPC class I remember this coming up but I can't find it in the book right now.

It had something to do with whether or not other fixtures were involved. For instance a kitchen sink alone can go vertical to horizontal with a regular quarter bend but if the washing machine was tied in, it had to be a long sweep.

I'll eventually find it and post the code. Again, that is IPC, not UPC.


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## ILPlumber

Il plumbing code is very similar to IPC. Long turns must be used on:
Horizontal to horizontal
Vertical to horizontal

Short sweeps may be used on horizontal to vertical.

Unless it is clear water such as a lav or water cooler. Then you can use short sweeps on horizontal to horizontal also.....

Nobody cares that this was sent from my droid using. Plumbing Zone


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

UPC states a combo or fitting with equivalent sweep!! Sweep tells me a long sweep 90 !!!


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## user7551

plbgbiz said:


> In our 2009 IPC class I remember this coming up but I can't find it in the book right now.
> 
> It had something to do with whether or not other fixtures were involved. For instance a kitchen sink alone can go vertical to horizontal with a regular quarter bend but if the washing machine was tied in, it had to be a long sweep.
> 
> I'll eventually find it and post the code. Again, that is IPC, not UPC.



When I was doing hospitals with my father we ran cast iron and you had a long sweep , short sweep and a quarter bend and it was enforced on which one you used where . Since I started working with pvc doing the work I do now the inspectors don't enforce the use of long sweeps on horizontal lines.Not saying it is right or wrong just what I've seen around here.


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## OldSchool

how can you read long sweep out of just the word sweep

it neither say the word long nor short.... just equivalent


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

OldSchool said:


> how can you read long sweep out of just the word sweep
> 
> it neither say the word long nor short.... just equivalent


The sweep on a combo is long isn't it ?? It sure isn't short So equivalent to me would be a long sweep!! It's just how I read it and the way I was taught backs up my thinking !!! But with all your info in the code questions thread I'd be honored to hear your opinion and learn from you !!!


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## user7551

OldSchool said:


> how can you read long sweep out of just the word sweep
> 
> it neither say the word long nor short.... just equivalent



I don't know maybe because in hub cast iron you have a long sweep , short sweep and quarter bend.


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## user7551

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> UPC states a combo or fitting with equivalent sweep!! Sweep tells me a long sweep 90 !!!


 this the ipc 2006?


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## OldSchool

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> The sweep on a combo is long isn't it ?? It sure isn't short So equivalent to me would be a long sweep!! It's just how I read it and the way I was taught backs up my thinking !!! But with all your info in the code questions thread I'd be honored to hear your opinion and learn from you !!!


Our code is now NPC which is national plumbing code....

there is short sweep and long sweep fitting.... code has to be more specific than that or it leaves it to interpretation...

This why there is discussion on topics here... because there seem to be more grey areas than clear ones...

One place its against code and another its not...

Just saying if they are going to take their time to put it in the code .. to be specific... if they want long sweep just say it...

As for the code question thread.... I was posting that to see if some of you guys would enjoy the challenge.... I have been bombarded with code question lately from one of my guys and yes I am having a hard time on some of them..

Its amazing all the little stuff you forget or the stuff you dont use everyday...

So in a nutshell....

Code should say it specifically or it purely up to interpretation


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## drtyhands

playme1979 said:


> I don't know maybe because in hub cast iron you have a long sweep , short sweep and quarter bend.


 In the AB&I catalogue.
Is that the terminology they use?

We use
Long sweep
Medium sweep
1/4 bend

They never enforce cast iron long sweep.
They let us use medium for V to H 

Plastic?
long sweep V to H


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## user7551

drtyhands said:


> In the AB&I catalogue.
> Is that the terminology they use?
> 
> We use
> Long sweep
> Medium sweep
> 1/4 bend
> 
> They never enforce cast iron long sweep.
> They let us use medium for V to H
> 
> Plastic?
> long sweep V to H



I tell ya what go to either the charlotte website or tyler they have three 90's and they call them long sweep , short sweep or quarter bend. 


Heres what the 2009 ipc says about it


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

OldSchool said:


> So in a nutshell....
> 
> Code should say it specifically or it purely up to interpretation


I agree. Your question are very good. But more over design and not much on install !! I am not a master yet and my focus and training have been on fabrication and installation !! And I use gallons Lol!!


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## user7551

OldSchool said:


> Our code is now NPC which is national plumbing code....
> 
> there is short sweep and long sweep fitting.... code has to be more specific than that or it leaves it to interpretation...
> 
> This why there is discussion on topics here... because there seem to be more grey areas than clear ones...
> 
> One place its against code and another its not...
> 
> Just saying if they are going to take their time to put it in the code .. to be specific... if they want long sweep just say it...
> 
> As for the code question thread.... I was posting that to see if some of you guys would enjoy the challenge.... I have been bombarded with code question lately from one of my guys and yes I am having a hard time on some of them..
> 
> Its amazing all the little stuff you forget or the stuff you dont use everyday...
> 
> So in a nutshell....
> 
> Code should say it specifically or it purely up to interpretation


Our code does say specifically what to use where on turns but the inspectors around here rarely enforce it but we do have a few good inspectors who do their job , take a look at the pic I posted.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

playme1979 said:


> this the ipc 2006?


2009 upc !!!


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## user7551

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> 2009 upc !!!



I wish they used the upc where I am at, but its all about the IPC here.


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## OldSchool

playme1979 said:


> Our code does say specifically what to use where on turns but the inspectors around here rarely enforce it but we do have a few good inspectors who do their job , take a look at the pic I posted.


so you are allowed short on 2" and less under xab


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## user7551

I remember when I was running cast iron we used short sweeps on all vertical to horizontal , long sweeps on all horizontal to horizontal turns, and quarter bends only on vents . The only time I've used quarter bend 90's on pvc is where I couldn't get a C/O to fit with a long sweep


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

playme1979 said:


> I wish they used the upc where I am at, but its all about the IPC here.


We can use ether!!


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## user7551

OldSchool said:


> so you are allowed short on 2" and less under xab


 yes on cast iron and pvc , but the code doesn't clarify between plastic and cast iron. Like I posted cast iron has three different 90's and plastic has 2 drain 90's quarter bend and long sweep . And there is a vent 90 I've seen somewhere for pvc ( very short turn 90).


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## smoldrn

I've always used LS 90's when going for vertical to horizontal. Most of the inspectors (and a lot of plumbers) have no idea what hydraulic jump is. It costs me a few $ more to use them, but I feel that my system is engineered properly.


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## Michaelcookplum

OldSchool said:


> how can you read long sweep out of just the word sweep
> 
> it neither say the word long nor short.... just equivalent


Sweep = long by def. 

Plain text calls it a 90 or a sweep. 

Sweep meaning LT


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## OldSchool

Michaelcookplum said:


> Sweep = long by def.
> 
> Plain text calls it a 90 or a sweep.
> 
> Sweep meaning LT


really :whistling2: now read lines 5 and 6


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## Michaelcookplum

OldSchool said:


> so you are allowed short on 2" and less under xab


Yes, IPC in VA. I even asked the inspector last week and he confirmed. Only 3" and greater require long turns or two 45's


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## Keefer w

Michaelcookplum said:


> Yes, IPC in VA. I even asked the inspector last week and he confirmed. Only 3" and greater require long turns or two 45's


Started in va. W/ ipc thats what I thought too, thanx


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## Michaelcookplum

OldSchool said:


> really :whistling2: now read lines 5 and 6


By short sweep do you think that's refering to a vent 90?


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## OldSchool

Michaelcookplum said:


> By short sweep do you think that's refering to a vent 90?


Does not matter what fitting it is referring to

You said sweep means long by definition 

The chart disagrees with your definition 

There is long and short in all fittings

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## jeffreyplumber

I never actualy got the exact code on this but in plastic I use a long sweep in cast iron its a short sweep or medium sweep ( a short and medium are the same only differance is name) and I never use a cast iron long sweep unless some one ordered it on accident and the I use it. 
A plastic medium sweep ( 1/4 bend) is not used on horizontal to horizontal or vertical to horizontal ever. This is the way everyone does it here.


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## Widdershins

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> UPC states a combo or fitting with equivalent sweep!! Sweep tells me a long sweep 90 !!!


A wye - 1/8 bend combination is the equivalent of a long sweep.

That's what you're trying to say, right?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Widdershins said:


> A wye - 1/8 bend combination is the equivalent of a long sweep.
> 
> That's what you're trying to say, right?


Yes. That's how I read it.


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## Widdershins

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Yes. That's how I read it.


If we're talking plastic or copper, then you are correct.

It gets kind of 'Out There' when you bring No-Hub into the mix, though.

A No-Hub Medium Sweep 90 has the same radius as a Schedule 40 plastic Long Sweep -- Yet, there are some Inspectors out there who refuse to recognize this and insist on No-Hub Long Sweeps (which are freakin' huge) to make Vert/Horiz. or Horiz/Horiz. changes in direction when roughing-in with No-Hub.


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## sikxsevn

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> The sweep on a combo is long isn't it ?? It sure isn't short So equivalent to me would be a long sweep!! It's just how I read it and the way I was taught backs up my thinking !!! But with all your info in the code questions thread I'd be honored to hear your opinion and learn from you !!!


The sweep on a CI combo is actually two 1/8 bends. Have you ever seen a CI long sweep? a 4" one is almost a foot long

Sent from my iPhon


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## Widdershins

sikxsevn said:


> The sweep on a CI combo is actually two 1/8 bends. Have you ever seen a CI long sweep? a 4" one is almost a foot long
> 
> Sent from my iPhon


A 2" one is at least a foot long.


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## sikxsevn

I was being a bit conservative I suppose

Sent from my iPhon


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## jeffreyplumber

Yea a cast iron long sweep is way long thats why Ive only had one on the job by accident Ive never purposely ordered one.


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## Joeypipes 23

Use to have the same problem...vertical to horizontal less than 4" required a sweep but luckily they changed the code and an 1/4 bends allowed


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