# Service call 11-14



## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Got a call that the new toilet they had installed leaked. Got there to see this. 
Leak was a quick fix on the supply line to tank connection. Yea, another HH job with this fine product...

Guess where this came from:









This is a first for me, a new design tank flush!!!


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Oh Yeah............how about those 'lil buggers. I had one of those great little dudes waiting on me a few months back, too.

I was like WTH is this????


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Interesting concept. No flush valve. What was your impression of how it operates? How do you like it? Thanks for posting the pics, I haven't seen this yet.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I can't recall the actual manufacter of this concept, but they make a model so you can change the flush handle to either right or left without changing tanks.

Mine went into a rental house and so far so good.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Ive installed a few of those. Crap toilet. You'll never get parts for it.


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Ive installed a few of those. Crap toilet. You'll never get parts for it.


I installed one in May... customer had me take it out just last week and supply them with a REAL TOILET!! The bucket kept getting stuck down and flooded her shop twice!!

:no: I DO NOT LIKE THESE!!


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

I've seen that junk. Installed one once supplied by the customer. Haven't heard anything from them about it.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Ahhh The Niagara Flapperless Design...

When I first saw one I was like WTF...

But, After installing quite a few customer supplied toilets in that design without any problems. Seeing how easy it was to install with the adjustable 10-12" rough in....

If you actually look at the MaP Report most of them flush quite well rated at 400-1,000 grams of solids per flush.

These toilets aren't all that new they have been out for several years now yet a lot of plumbers don't know anything about them and are seeing them for the first time. If you look at the design simplicity and the fact that even after being sold for several years the lack of repairs, and people posting on DIYer forums looking for help with repairs is making me think that these are decent toilets running in stealth mode because they work! One of the biggest things that bugs me is getting sent to a callback of my own and as I look at what the problem is discovering that the customer made adjustments to my work! There is virtually nothing for them to touch here...

Think about it! the most common problem with a toilet no doubt is the flapper not working right... Guess what! There isn't one!

The next most common problem is the fill valve not working... It's a Fluidmaster fill valve and Niagara gives a 10 Year Guarantee on all components.

I have been on one repair call for a Niagara Flapperless and that was a clog.

To say they aren't out there is crazy! The Depot is selling them! There are plenty of them out there...

But unlike the other brands Depot sells we aren't seeing them...

You might start thinking like I am that the reason we aren't seeing them is because they are good toilets and they work too well!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Christina said:


> I installed one in May... customer had me take it out just last week and supply them with a REAL TOILET!! The bucket kept getting stuck down and flooded her shop twice!!
> 
> :no: I DO NOT LIKE THESE!!


I'm curious how the bucket sticking would flood a shop...

Wouldn't the water simply go down the drain if the bucket stuck?:whistling2:


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

The design looks like it might noisier when filling than a more typical design. What is your impression of the quality of the fill/flush mechanism Redwood?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Ahhh The Niagara Flapperless Design...
> 
> When I first saw one I was like WTF...
> 
> ...


I installed one a couple years ago and its still working. If that tray ever cracks it might be a problem to get a new one tho. I didn't look at it that close but I was wondering if you could convert it to a flapper/flushvalve design if the tray is not available years from now?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Pipedoc said:


> The design looks like it might noisier when filling than a more typical design. What is your impression of the quality of the fill/flush mechanism Redwood?


Truthfully I don't see much going wrong with it.

About the only possibility I see is a fill valve going bad an Fluidmaster makes those for Niagara.

Possibly the need to lubricate the tipping pivots at some point or, replacement of the pivots way down the road. Other than that nothing coming our way....

To change from flush lever on the left to the right it is only a matter of taking the pivots apart and swapping them.

The fill was not noisy but the flush you do hear the water pour.

Another interesting thing is the tank on this toilet will never sweat...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I installed one a couple years ago and its still working. If that tray ever cracks it might be a problem to get a new one tho. I didn't look at it that close but I was wondering if you could convert it to a flapper/flushvalve design if the tray is not available years from now?


For the tray to crack someone would have to have the tank lid open and physically break it...

Niagara Conservation have been in business since 1977 and they have a diverse line of water saving and energy saving products. They should do quite well!

My only concerns would be the handle and pivot mechanism eventually wearing or, breaking the handle.


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> I'm curious how the bucket sticking would flood a shop...
> 
> Wouldn't the water simply go down the drain if the bucket stuck?:whistling2:


You are good Redwood!! The shop is in an old part of town that ties into the sewermain that is located right under a concrete sidewalk/parking lot. Her father owns the shop just south of her in the same building. They have babied this line for YEARS to avoid ripping up sidewalk and parking lot. Last week I also had to take the large machine in the 'clothing shop' and run the sewerline view the commode drain. There is no cleanouts on this building either. You are right and the malfunctioning toilet would have done fine if the sewer line would have been OK, but the condition of the sewer main has limited this facility for years on the number of times they can flush or the amount of water they can use due to the bad shape of the main line. Anyways, good catch on that. I cleaned the drain the same day I pulled the malfuntioning commode!! :thumbsup:


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I installed one a couple years ago and its still working. If that tray ever cracks it might be a problem to get a new one tho. I didn't look at it that close but I was wondering if you could convert it to a flapper/flushvalve design if the tray is not available years from now?


Funny you should ask that TM, my brother kept the one that we took out last week to see if it can be changed over. What I did notice was the tank-bowl opening is extremely larger than the ones that we are used to working with... will let you know what we find out!!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Christina here is your contact info for parts...

http://www.niagaraconservation.com/Basic.html
scroll down you'll see the number.

Fix it and give us a test report!


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Pipedoc said:


> Interesting concept. No flush valve. What was your impression of how it operates? How do you like it? Thanks for posting the pics, I haven't seen this yet.


Seemed to flush alright, but figure I will give the owners a couple weeks and get their opinion. Just a strange setup to me.

Redwood, Thanks for the history on that style...


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