# Chemical Safety for Plumbers



## PlumbingZone (Feb 10, 2016)

You already know enough to dread the call where a well-meaning but clueless homeowner has used Drano. But drain uncloggers aren’t the only chemicals you need to know about when working as a plumber. Staying safe on the jobsite means having a general knowledge of the substantial hazards you’re likely to encounter - and what to do in the event of exposure. 

*Basic (and Acidic) Chemistry*

When it comes to the chemicals that pose hazards, they’re either extremely acidic -- having a pH less than 7, with lower levels indicating a stronger acid -- or basic, with a pH above 7, with higher levels indicating a more corrosive base. Strong acids and strong bases both can cause damage to your eyes, skin, lungs and tools. 

When an acid and a base mix, they rapidly duke it out on a molecular level to reach a pH close to 7 or neutral. When this happens, you’re exposed to potentially toxic fumes and a powerful reaction that can cause burns, explosions and more. It’s the reason you’re cautioned never to mix bleach and ammonia. Bleach, a base, and ammonia, an acid, try to neutralize each other. The result is chlorine gas. In small exposures, you might only get badly irritated lungs and eyes. In larger quantities, it can kill. 

Knowing what chemicals are present on the job - and whether they’re acidic or basic - can help you avoid mixing them with their opposites to prevent hazardous and possibly lethal reactions. 

*Staying Safe*

It’s important to know what, if any, chemicals a client used before they called you and how long ago they were used. In a totally clogged sink, for example, the Drano they used a day or two prior can still be lingering at the site of the clog - and when you reach the clog, you might find yourself splashed or worse. 

When in doubt about how to properly conduct yourself around a chemical, seek out the manufacturer’s MSDS for the substance. This sheet will not only tell you what PPE you’ll need to safely work around it, but also how to appropriately neutralize and remove it for cleanup, should you need to and any steps to take if your skin is exposed. 

*What to Look For*

Sometimes a client is ashamed or embarrassed to have tried to fix the problem themselves. Sometimes they want to avoid a surcharge for working on a line that’s got chemicals in it. They may not be forthright about their use of chemicals to solve the problem, leaving you at a disadvantage and in a precarious position. When in doubt, outfit yourself with PPE appropriate to handling caustic chemicals. Thick gloves, safety goggles, long sleeves and a keen eye toward keeping yourself out of the line of splashes can go a long way toward keeping you safe. Trust your eyes, nose and gut when it comes to hidden potential hazards.

*To Upcharge or Not? *

Working on a drain line, appliance or fixture that’s been treated with chemicals represents a significant hazard to your health and safety. It also means you’ll be spending more time on the job, either trying to avoid exposure or trying to neutralize or remove the chemical so you can safely work. It’s prudent to add a surcharge or upcharge for jobs that require working around caustic chemicals to offset this extra time and risk, especially if you’ll need to replenish materials used to soak up a spill or standing pool of it for safe disposal. 

*Chemicals and You*

When it comes to working around chemicals on the jobsite, plumbers have it rough. Not only are you unable to completely see the area you’re working on, but well-intentioned homeowners may have unintentionally complicated the job. Keep yourself safe, know what to look for and what PPE will protect you and how to handle an occupational exposure to caustic chemicals - and consider charging an extra fee for the danger or extra time and materials spent safely cleaning up the mess. 

Do you add a surcharge for customers who use chemical drain uncloggers before calling you? Why or why not?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Interesting topic, just today I had a kitchen clog call. I asked the guy on the phone if he put chemicals in there and he said no. Upon arrival opening the front door the smell hit me in the face and they said they used dran_0, I interviewed them a little more and they used other stuff too, they handed me a bottle that contained sulfuric acid. I turned around and left. 

F-that. When you get into a house and there's a strong smell of bleach or acidic stench get the F-out or have the full suit and organic vapor full face mask and charge for it.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

when I eat white castles I warn everyone around me they should get some PPE like a self contained breathing device...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> when I eat white castles I warn everyone around me they should get some PPE like a self contained breathing device...


I saw frozen burgers yesterday and I was thinking how you, do you think they'll taste the same?


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

PlumbingZone said:


> You already know enough to dread the call where a well-meaning but clueless homeowner has used Drano. But drain uncloggers aren’t the only chemicals you need to know about when working as a plumber. Staying safe on the jobsite means having a general knowledge of the substantial hazards you’re likely to encounter - and what to do in the event of exposure.
> 
> *Basic (and Acidic) Chemistry*
> 
> ...






Personally I love it when the customer pours in tons of draino or liquid plumber. Makes more money for me when it burns holes in the metal pipe and cleans the grease stopping those diy glue joints from leaking.


And when it splashes in my hair I get the added bonus of straightening my jerry curls. Then I ain't gotta buy me any lye of my own! Hot dawg! :biggrin:













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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

A local restaurant employee died a few months back from exposure when bleach and amonia were mixed inadvertently. The story was that someone else did it, and he was trying to squeegee it all out the back door to prevent the fumes from building up inside, attempting to keep it away from the other staff and patrons. The press was making him out to be a hero, if they can be believed. Young, recent new father, sad. 

When I hear stories like this it makes me all the more adamant to fight against these fukking neandertals among us that brush safety off as namby pamby BS.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> Interesting topic, just today I had a kitchen clog call. I asked the guy on the phone if he put chemicals in there and he said no. Upon arrival opening the front door the smell hit me in the face and they said they used dran_0, I interviewed them a little more and they used other stuff too, they handed me a bottle that contained sulfuric acid. I turned around and left.
> 
> F-that. When you get into a house and there's a strong smell of bleach or acidic stench get the F-out or have the full suit and organic vapor full face mask and charge for it.







I get where you're coming from and don't blame you for not touching. But frankly the situation is not that difficult to deal with. Wear gloves, shop vac it out, pour it in the toilet. Put any rags/drop cloths you use to clean up the mess in a separate bucket to rinse off/wash later on. 



When you run the snake in set it up so you can run water while the snake is still in before pulling it back. If you must pull it back while it's still clogged do not run the drill, just pull it back by hand over a bucket and wipe it off with a damp rag as you pull it back.


Or one of my favorite tricks if the shop vac won't clear it is to hook a fernco drain cap on and give it full pressure. If there's a vent you'll get at most 20 feet of head which a drain cap can more than handle or it will clear. Hold the cap on as you open the valve to apply water pressure. If it doesn't clear you can just drain it into a bucket.


I don't recall ever turning down a job because of drain cleaning chemicals being present. I have dealt with it many times. Dealt with it today and on monday. Drain cleaning chemicals that homeowners can get are not really strong at all. If you do get some on you just flush the area with cold water.












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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> A local restaurant employee died a few months back from exposure when bleach and amonia were mixed inadvertently. The story was that someone else did it, and he was trying to squeegee it all out the back door to prevent the fumes from building up inside, attempting to keep it away from the other staff and patrons. The press was making him out to be a hero, if they can be believed. Young, recent new father, sad.
> 
> When I hear stories like this it makes me all the more adamant to fight against these fukking neandertals among us that brush safety off as namby pamby BS.





Someone mixing bleach and ammonia isn't them brushing off safety, it's just ignorance not knowing what will happen. I have never heard of someone who really thought it would work better and they could deal with the fumes. I have met people who just didn't know. When people do know they just don't do it.



He doesn't sound like a hero, he sounds like an idiot. He knew what was going on and chose to breathe it in. He should have just told everyone to get out.


















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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> I get where you're coming from and don't blame you for not touching. But frankly the situation is not that difficult to deal with. Wear gloves, shop vac it out, pour it in the toilet. Put any rags/drop cloths you use to clean up the mess in a separate bucket to rinse off/wash later on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you missed the part they put *sulfuric acid*. It's not draino but real acid. 

I do draino jobs but I turn away acid jobs and those who poured a full gallon of bleach are refused too.

I did a few sulfuric acid jobs at first where it burnt my pants and shirt and made a hole in the asphalt from a drop of the vaccuum hose. Nope I'll make money another day for something safer.

Same for bleach, the stench is so strong it lingers in your nose for 24 hours and burns you lungs.

Here, a guy threw concrete floor cleaner(sulfuric acid) on his girlfriend a few years ago.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> I think you missed the part they put *sulfuric acid*. It's not draino but real acid. .................................Here, a guy threw concrete floor cleaner(sulfuric acid) on his girlfriend a few years ago.
> 
> 
> .





I think you missed the part where I said _" Drain cleaning chemicals that homeowners can get are not really strong at all."_.


I did not call out draino/liqplum specifically which are sodium hydroxide solutions and not very strong at all. Nor did I discount the acidic options which include but are not limited to toilet bowl cleaner(HCl aka hydrochloric), liquid fire/rooto(H2SO4 aka sulfuric), or clr/other concentrated forms of citric acid.


Bleach, I will admit is quite nasty. But all in all the stuff people can buy at normal outlets and even online for the most part is pretty tame. Concrete floor cleaner undiluted is completely different than the solutions you can buy sold as drain cleaners.


I too probe deeply about what they may or may not have used but I have had maybe two people lie thinking I would turn down the job. I actually said to one of them that I had half a mind to leave right then simply for them lying to me even though they knew it could/would hurt me. But on the whole practically no customer has lied and almost all of them show me the bottle before hand and say this is what's in there and often they offer to vac it out for me if I give them the vac to do it. And some say they expect me to walk.


KOH flakes or concentrated HCl would be a whole different ball game, but I have yet to encounter a customer who used those. I have used them myself however, I keep 35% HCl on the van and used to carry KOH flakes.



I think this is another instance where your customers are just simply antithetical to mine. Your customers may pour down several bottles and try to lie, mine usually just use one bottle and are upfront about it. Maybe it's a city/country difference, or usa/canada difference, or maybe it's because many of your customers are immigrants who are used to acting defensively. Either way i am not saying you are wrong in your choice. I am saying we have different scenarios and thus make different choices.


I am quite comfortable with chemicals. I have had light burns before(recreational/young dumb) and have had a good amount of experience working with them in a safe manner. Someone has to do it. They put the stuff in there. So I either turn the work down and let the idiot deal with it and probably hurt themselves or I, the professional with experience deal with it and charge them 95$/hr to do so. 



Maybe one day I will have an accident and change my mind but for now that's how I feel.
















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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

I must admit that this topic seems to have been a pretty good choice made by the site owner. As much as I despise them I will admit when they hit the nail on the head.


But I will point out that is, again, a european picture.










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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The problem is that they sell the strong stuff at big box stores and people are clueless about them and don't think it's bad real bad. The clerks a re also ignorant and just hand them out. Today the sink turned black and permanently stained because of the substance.

Some of the customers went to read my drain cleaning page and decide to call me and didn't put anything in there. Those are good customers.

A month or 2 ago the clerks at the supply house is all happy to present me their new product line of ultra tough drain openers, some of them were already leaking brand new from the box and he had no idea the burns it would do. For him it was like mr. clean to wipe away stains. :vs_OMG:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> The problem is that they sell the _strong stuff_ at big box stores and people are clueless about them and don't think it's bad real bad............







What do you consider the "strong stuff"?








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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I saw frozen burgers yesterday and I was thinking how you, do you think they'll taste the same?



they dont....there ok but the best is fresh off the steam table....


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> What do you consider the "strong stuff"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Without checking too much it's supposed to be 93% sulfuric acid

https://www.rona.ca/en/super-drain-...MIltibur7Y5gIVl5OzCh3BvQ1qEAQYASABEgKGAPD_BwE


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> they dont....there ok but the best is fresh off the steam table....


I doubt there's any franchise in Canada


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> Without checking too much it's supposed to be 93% sulfuric acid







I checked and it is 93% H2SO4. Seems like a bit much but on further searching I found that "clobber" by oatey is also 93% H2SO4. Mule Kick by Sexauer is also 93% sulfuric acid. I have dealt with Clobber in a line before so I guess it's not that bad. They used two quarts. Really the only "drain cleaning chemicals" I am worried of encountering are high cocentrate HCl or KOH.




On a side note did you guys know there was a court case about mule kick drain cleaner? A plumber sued Sexauer because it sprayed and got in his eyes. In this case he had used the flakes form of mule kick which is NaOH, not an acid. The container specifically said it wouldn't cause pressure when used as a drain cleaner. It came out of a hole rusted through a galv drain pipe over head when he was checking it out in the basement. He had just put it down the drain. He lost his case. Basically they said he was a licensed plumber and should have known better.


https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case/reporter/F2/380/380.F2d.453.30.31.30312.30313_1.html














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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Ive been listening to both sides ..1 for working with acid in drains and 1 that wont for safety reasons...I didnt look or google yet for any specific product made for this..... but do they make a product that will neutralize the acid and make it safe to work with when drain cleaning?????
I use muriatic acid for cleaning metal and concrete and when done you can neutralize it with a baking soda solution.....has anyone tried this down a sink or drain line???



Dissolve 4 to 5 cups of baking soda in a 5-gallon bucket filled with approximately 1/4 water. Pour the *acid* slowly into the bucket until the fizzing stops, and dispose the solution. For spills, *neutralize* the *acid* by pouring raw baking soda or lime over the spills until the fizzing stops.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjViL-b1NjmAhVCTt8KHfjZATwQFjACegQIDRAK&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsciencing.com%2Fhow-to-neutralize-an-acid-12524106.html&usg=AOvVaw3h9r7y9jiaM1W9cVQ5ybAT


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I doubt there's any franchise in Canada





another reason to move south of the border...:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
or at least visit for a taste....


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I use muriatic acid for cleaning metal and concrete and when done you can neutralize it with a baking soda solution.....has anyone tried this down a sink or drain line???







Muriatic acid is HCl. It's one of the two drain cleaning chemicals I keep on the truck. Sold as Hercules/Oatey brand "Sizzle", it's a 35% solution. I use it for polishing the inside of old galvanized lines.



It is extremely strong. It will strip the oxides off most metals very quickly. I have had it liberate zinc and then deposit it on chrome. This will make the chrome very dark like it has been damaged. Use a bit more HCl and it will strip this back off.


It is great for cleaning metal. I use it for cleaning old faucets I save and wish to reuse. 









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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> It is great for cleaning metal. I use it for cleaning old faucets I save and wish to reuse.





A couple months ago I emptied out all my shelf worn 1/2" and 3/4" brass from the parts drawers in my van. They had gotten real dirty from the rust in the bottom of the drawers and moisture. I put them in a bucket with like 8oz of HCl and some water and let them sit for a couple hours on the back porch, agitating it when I walked by. Rinsed well with water and they looked brand new and ready to sell again.










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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Ive been listening to both sides ..1 for working with acid in drains and 1 that wont for safety reasons...I didnt look or google yet for any specific product made for this..... but do they make a product that will neutralize the acid and make it safe to work with when drain cleaning?????
> I use muriatic acid for cleaning metal and concrete and when done you can neutralize it with a baking soda solution.....has anyone tried this down a sink or drain line???
> 
> 
> ...



I tried on 2 occasions to try and neutralize the acid by putting baking soda in the sink, it foams up, bubbles and sizzles. After 20 minutes of it still boiling I tested it with a test strip and still too acid. I put more and eventually after like 40 minutes it was supposed to be okay, however the line is still full of acid hell and since it doesn't mix up to 10-20-30-40 feet while the sink is somewhat neutralized. Those test strips go bad real quick and I stopped buying them and stopped that chemical nonsense altogether. I do draino lines though.

You can't neutralize the line in my opinion and the danger is you have to put your head under the sink to cut the pipe out for cabling. That's when your arms get drops and starts to burn. Worse if you get some on your face or eyes. When you do a first pass and have to try again with the cable spraying, a few times drops burnt my pants and ruined them. I had posted pictures some time back. Wiping the cable isn't enough there's a always some on it.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> I tried on 2 occasions to try and neutralize the acid by putting baking soda in the sink, it foams up, bubbles and sizzles. After 20 minutes of it still boiling I tested it with a test strip and still too acid. I put more and eventually after like 40 minutes it was supposed to be okay, however the line is still full of acid hell and since it doesn't mix up to 10-20-30-40 feet while the sink is somewhat neutralized. Those test strips go bad real quick and I stopped buying them and stopped that chemical nonsense altogether. I do draino lines though.
> 
> You can't neutralize the line in my opinion and the danger is you have to put your head under the sink to cut the pipe out for cabling. That's when your arms get drops and starts to burn. Worse if you get some on your face or eyes. When you do a first pass and have to try again with the cable spraying, a few times drops burnt my pants and ruined them. I had posted pictures some time back. Wiping the cable isn't enough there's a always some on it.





I vac out the bulk first. When you go to disconnect the hose put that end in the bucket and lift the other end out of the sink and coil it in the bucket. Carry the shop vac carefully to the bathroom. Take the top off and place it in the tub. Carefully pour the bulk into the toilet and flush. Then you can rinse the vac parts in the tub.


A lot of times this also partially unclogs the line, especially if it's not vented. Then you can run a bit of water to clear out the remaining stuff and if you want toss in some neutralizer.


For cutting the pipe nicely and not spraying crap everywhere with the shop vac I suggest the wheeler rex 4992.






















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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

@Tango



Here's what I don't get. If you as the drain cleaning professional aren't willing to deal with drain cleaning chemicals in a kitchen sink line than who do you expect to do it? Should they call the fire department and ask for the hazmat team?



Stuff like that is just part of the job. Darn near everyone is trying chemicals at 10$/bottle before they call a plumber at 95$+/hr.















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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

We all have things that we won't deal with. Some guys won't touch schitt, others dogs, etc. Jobs with those issues can just be done by the next guy, who can look like the hero if he wants, until the job that has HIS pet issue. Mine is driving in snow. It's one thing to fight my way in during a storm, but then spend the whole day driving around in it in a rear wheel drive van with little weight in the back, with the way the other idiots drive today when they feel they're invincible becuase their SUVs have 4WD? No thanks. I'm off today because of it, and they're saying that it might go right through tomorrow. With New Years it's going to be a short check this week. 

When I was younger I was the guy who got my a$$ into work no matter what, sometime leaving hours early, only to find most of the others who lived even closer didn't bother. And for what, little or no recognition, getting to return home to still have to clear my driveway that night, now with compacted tracks in and out that made it much harder.

I'm not crazy about chemicals either. Usually I ask if they've used them, but of course the one time I forget is when they definately have. No matter, I usually just assume that they've used them anytime I've got a blocked drain, and take appropriate precautions, so no big deal. I have had them lie to me too, which just amazes me. What actually do they think I'm going to do? Yell at them or something? Then you get those customers who freak out at you for all sorts of irrational and false reasons. Those are the ones that I'd like to have a little more fear of me.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Got another call today, a woman asks for a jetter because the plumber couldn't get it open with a 25' snake. She went on the pipe was 30 feet and longer. Seriously I've heard that tune a half dozen times last year. All I can say the guy isn't a real plumber or is an idiot with 25'. Then he suggested to use another plumber with a jetter. She tells me she put sulfuric acid and the plumber was about to do the same thing.

I told her to call someone else who wanted to risk going to the hospital. She didn't comprehend one second how strong that stuff is.


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