# Large capacity electric hot water heaters



## bikefitter0 (Nov 22, 2011)

What are you guys doing when it's time to replace 66,80, 120 gallon electric heater. With the new energy codes no one is making them any more except for the heat pump models which are to big to fit in same area most of the time.They also don't work to well here in Connecticut climate. If you haven't experienced this yet you will. thanks


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I don't know, I have been suppose to call a guy ask with a response to that same question. There are a few tanks available, but they all have ridiculous markup from the wholesaler.


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

The way I see it, you only have a few options. 

1- tankless
2- hybrid (works here in Fl, but not for you)
3- smaller tank cranked up high with a tempering valve
4- do glycol based domestic solar systems work there? (Solar meets the energy standard and can still be installed in the 80 and 120 sizes)


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## bikefitter0 (Nov 22, 2011)

Yes solar would work. getting the customer to part with the money, that's another story. thanks for the suggestions


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Compare solar to the cost of tankless or the hybrid. Then look into tax credits for solar. Might find the numbers a little closer than you think. Then go on the FSEC (Florida solar energy center) website and calculate the payback period on solar. After that, the hot water is free. It's an investment for sure, but if you truly need an 80 or 120 gallon heater, it's an option. You never make the sale if you don't present the option.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Don't know about your area, but lowes and Home Depot have TONS of old style electric water heaters in stock. All the way up to 80 gal.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

Install 2 40 electric?


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

The other option raised by our BW rep was use the light commercial models, the commercial models aren't effected by the new rules.


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

Hybrids work up here. National grid is still running 750.00 rebates in RI. All the local shops including mine are selling a ton of them.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm not a fan of AO Smith, but we had a Land Bank job, 10 condos about 5 years ago and required their super efficient electric heater... can't remember the model. I was shocked when we went to test! 40gal was up to temperature in less than 15 minutes!

About a year later we had to replace the heater at a humane society because they would run out of hot water after only five minutes when washing out the kennels. Problem was the heater was 25' up with only a ladder to get up there. These heaters are bulky, but relatively light.

Had to go back for a drain about six months later and asked them how it was working for them. They said they haven't run out of hot water since.

They are expensive, almost a grand for a 40, but seem to go above and beyond. 

Not sure if this helps.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Greenguy said:


> The other option raised by our BW rep was use the light commercial models, the commercial models aren't effected by the new rules.


I don't usually install any commercial heater that is under 100 gallons but what is the warranty compared to a residential heater? I know the big ones have crap for warranties, usually only a year and 3 if you're lucky.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

My bad! It was a Rheem. I don't care for them either....

http://www.rheem.com/product/residential-electric-water-heaters-marathon


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## plumbdik (Aug 6, 2013)

Our local distributor said that for Rheem/Ruud we can use the Marathon Heaters upto 100+/- gallon too and another local rep tried to turn us on the HTP heaters, 80-120 gallon heaters all stainless steel tank, supposedly with a lifetime warranty. More expensive - but I was told they don't have a heat pump and still meet energy standards. We've already been getting complaints about the 36 gallon or 28 gallon lowboys from customers reading the boxes.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

plumbdik said:


> Our local distributor said that for Rheem/Ruud we can use the Marathon Heaters upto 100+/- gallon too and another local rep tried to turn us on the HTP heaters, 80-120 gallon heaters all stainless steel tank, supposedly with a lifetime warranty. More expensive - but I was told they don't have a heat pump and still meet energy standards. We've already been getting complaints about the 36 gallon or 28 gallon lowboys from customers reading the boxes.


HTP are worth the extra money. It might be because they are based out of Massachusetts and that's where I primarily work but customer service and tech support are awesome. Usually don't have many problems with their products as long as you pipe them correctly.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Marathon. .96 energy. Lifetime tank. 1000$


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## plumb1bob (Dec 14, 2012)

*water heater mess*

Rheem reps recommend 50 electric with tempering valve or Marathon. Some electrical suppliers rebate the Marathon. I've had a couple of them out there for 9-10 years, no replacements. Changed 1 element but I think customer dry fired it. Not sure about tempering device but have seen them out there. WATTS and CONBRACO both make them. BTW install both BW and RHEEM. Rheem has better no call back ratio.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

bikefitter0 said:


> What are you guys doing when it's time to replace 66,80, 120 gallon electric heater. With the new energy codes no one is making them any more except for the heat pump models which are to big to fit in same area most of the time.They also don't work to well here in Connecticut climate. If you haven't experienced this yet you will. thanks


Old inventory exhausted and had the situation you describe last Thursday. To make it even more interesting the 80 gallon BW water heater was still under warranty.

OPTIONS from BW (after getting Supervisor involved) as Customer Service Rep. had not run into that situation as of yet: 

1. Direct replacement - heat pump style (would not work)
2. Install two 40 gallon heaters (no room)
3. Install one 50 gallon with tempering valve


As an aside, I would like to hear opinions on Option 3.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Phat Cat said:


> Old inventory exhausted and had the situation you describe last Thursday. To make it even more interesting the 80 gallon BW water heater was still under warranty. OPTIONS from BW (after getting Supervisor involved) as Customer Service Rep. had not run into that situation as of yet: 1. Direct replacement - heat pump style (would not work) 2. Install two 40 gallon heaters (no room) 3. Install one 50 gallon with tempering valve As an aside, I would like to hear opinions on Option 3.


 Not enough space for a heat pump? What about a 55 gallon 5500 w State? BW might have to shell out some cash on this one.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OpenSights said:


> My bad! It was a Rheem. I don't care for them either....
> 
> http://www.rheem.com/product/residential-electric-water-heaters-marathon


Curious why you would have replaced a Rheem Marathon...

Generally those are just replace elements & thermostats...


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Redwood said:


> Curious why you would have replaced a Rheem Marathon...
> 
> Generally those are just replace elements & thermostats...


It was kind of a special situation. The 30gal (IDR the brand) they had was 18 years old, gave them all of 15 minutes of hot water... not enough to wash out all the poop from the kennels in the morning. The other reason it was on a platform above the offices, about 15' up a fixed ladder plus another 4' railing. So safety was the biggest concern. Sure we could have rented a scissor lift and put in a Bradford White, but they didn't want to go that route. Those Rheem's, as bulky as they are, are amazingly light! I just took a cargo strap, cinched around it and hoisted it up (with no bystanders around). To be honest a 40gal can't weigh more than a buck twenty five (not wet). 

Trust me, I wouldn't put one my home, but it made sense for their needs. I've done other jobs there since we put it in about four years ago, and ask them every time if it's still meeting their demands. They love it! Never runs out of hot water.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OpenSights said:


> It was kind of a special situation. The 30gal (IDR the brand) they had was 18 years old, gave them all of 15 minutes of hot water... not enough to wash out all the poop from the kennels in the morning. The other reason it was on a platform above the offices, about 15' up a fixed ladder plus another 4' railing. So safety was the biggest concern. Sure we could have rented a scissor lift and put in a Bradford White, but they didn't want to go that route. Those Rheem's, as bulky as they are, are amazingly light! I just took a cargo strap, cinched around it and hoisted it up (with no bystanders around). To be honest a 40gal can't weigh more than a buck twenty five (not wet).
> 
> Trust me, I wouldn't put one my home, but it made sense for their needs. I've done other jobs there since we put it in about four years ago, and ask them every time if it's still meeting their demands. They love it! Never runs out of hot water.


The reason they are that light is the tank is plastic so it doesn't corrode...
Hence the only replacing the elements and thermostat...

Was it undersized or malfunctioning?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Redwood said:


> The reason they are that light is the tank is plastic so it doesn't corrode...
> Hence the only replacing the elements and thermostat...
> 
> Was it undersized or malfunctioning?


We replaced the existing traditional metal tank electric heater with the Rheem. IIRC we even left the old one up there too. It was was either a whirlpool or A.O. Smith... but the tank was at least 1/4 full of deposits. For a fully drained 30 gal, she was really heavy. Even brought up the big shop vac and busted off the plastic BDBV and punched it out with a screw driver. The water in that township, as well as my town and surrounding areas is very hard and full of iron.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Oh and to top it off the bottom (of course) element wouldn't unthread even with a 36" pipe wrench and socket.... That one was the one with open circuit. When replacing elements, I always replace both elements, and start with the bottom first to see if it's a deal breaker and a new heater is needed.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Redwood said:


> The reason they are that light is the tank is plastic so it doesn't corrode... Hence the only replacing the elements and thermostat... Was it undersized or malfunctioning?


They will still fill with sediment, especially in hard water regions. I also wouldn't be surprised to find out there are health risks associated with plastic tanks that produce 140 degree water.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> They will still fill with sediment, especially in hard water regions. I also wouldn't be surprised to find out there are health risks associated with plastic tanks that produce 140 degree water.


I believe you will find that plastic very commonly attached to your food as packaging for meats, fish and cheese along with plastic corks in wine and champagne...

It is inert to temperatures well beyond what any water heater will ever see...

I'd still rather have a HTP stainless steel tank myself...


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I just heard on the news yesterday that plastic food containers are linked to high blood pressure.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

BPA? Not all plastics contain it, but they say try to stay away from that stuff. I can't imagine they would use that kind of plastic... heck, we use PEX.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

They are made from Polybutene-1....


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

When BPA is removed it's often replaced with a similarity dangerous chemical. It's referred to as "regrettable solution".


Redwood said:


> They are made from Polybutene-1....


 So they won't allow it for water lines but it's okay to use for a 50 gallon tank? Sorry I'm not buying it will last over 20 years.

I have thought about offering a lifetime water heater installation. I would just triple my price and plan on replacing it every 18 years. Remember it's only the tank, still have to pay for labor and parts. That Marathon tank is probably much cheaper than a steel tank for them to make, yet it's 3-4x more expensive. It's just an extended warranty.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> When BPA is removed it's often replaced with a similarity dangerous chemical. It's referred to as "regrettable solution". *So they won't allow it for water lines but it's okay to use for a 50 gallon tank? *Sorry I'm not buying it will last over 20 years.
> 
> I have thought about offering a lifetime water heater installation. I would just triple my price and plan on replacing it every 18 years. Remember it's only the tank, still have to pay for labor and parts. That Marathon tank is probably much cheaper than a steel tank for them to make, yet it's 3-4x more expensive. It's just an extended warranty.


Polybutene-1
Polybutylene


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

Our BW rep said the light duty commercial tanks are not effected by the new regs, giving you full range for tanks especially on the bigger sizes. 

http://www.bradfordwhite.com/sites/default/files/product_literature/1410-A.pdf


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