# Rheem water heaters



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I went to the Rheem R+D lab in our town today to estimate installing a tankless water heater in the lab so they can do some research on temps, settings and demands...

The install is no big deal but they seem to be all hyped up about being able to set the temperatures of the water heaters from their I-phones....( I guess that is an enjineer thing):blink::blink:

I mentioned in passing that Bradford White has attempted to do that with their Icon valves since 2010 and the whole concept has never really taken off too well for them......There is a BW gas model in the showroom of a supply house with all the bells and whistles on it and it has gone over like a brick....:laughing:.


Has anyone ever sold or added the options to the Bradford White Icon valves so someone can monitor their heaters from a different location??? 

Does anyone see a need to adjust their water heater from their phones, or am I just old fashioned and cannot understand or grasp the "big picture"

thanks in advance


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Not one single customer had any interest in controlling the temp back when I was selling BW.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

It has never come up for me. People want their water hot all the time. I will show them how to set the control for vacation/pilot, I doubt they ever do it.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Did you ask them if their model will require periodic resetting with a thump from a pair of channellock pliers? :laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Did you ask them if their model will require periodic resetting with a thump from a pair of channellock pliers? :laughing:


You know that never occoured to me to explain that technique to repair one when I was there on thursday...


I might be doing a tankless in my own home for them if my wife will stand for it....
Here are some pics of the lab


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

Wait. You had to go to rheem to install their water heater.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Pacificpipes said:


> Wait. You had to go to rheem to install their water heater.



Yes... 
The place is nothing but a R+D lab with techs , 
they have no hands on experience on how to install the units themselves...

Basically, they are just running experiments on the heaters to see about cost of operating the units and other info ....

look at the pic of the tankless heater all wired up at the table....
that is basically a 94% condensing unit made by palmoa for Rheem that 
they are wanting to run tests on.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I saw a similar room at State/AO Smith. Lot of things that haven't materialized other than I see the big tank/hybrid is out.


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

Makes sense now. I was like wait a sec they don't have someone that knows how to install their product.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

You'd think they would just handi-hack it in like their homer customers do so they could test it under realistic operating conditions....


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

The R and D lab has an advantage over the everyday plumber, if the glass safety vial breaks under the burner assembly they can just go get another one. The poor plumber out in the field has to wait for it to be mailed.


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

dhal22 said:


> The R and D lab has an advantage over the everyday plumber, if the glass safety vial breaks under the burner assembly they can just go get another one. The poor plumber out in the field has to wait for it to be mailed.



That's why I rob them from every old water heater I find.....although I haven't needed one yet.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Plumbergeek said:


> That's why I rob them from every old water heater I find.....although I haven't needed one yet.


 
I have never needed one.... I have fooled with them a few times but I dont trust the units after they have had a fire in them...

better to change out the heaters than to have liability issues down the road

I made this dumb ass mistake with a whirlpool heater last week....the unit would not heat so I did what I had to do to get them hot water for that evening ...
installed a new thermo-coupling and cleaned out all the lint... The unit rumbled from all the lime built up in it but I figured it would last the night

I was comming back in the am to install a new pan and 50 gal rheem water heater..... The whirlpool got so hot over night that it warped the plastic pan it was sitting inn.... I suppose the baffle in the unit must have warped and would not let out the heat fast enough so it overheated the bottom of the unit....:blink: 

that was not good thing to happen with my name on it, and I wont do that favor again for anyone ever again...


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## GrtLksPlbr (Aug 12, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> I have never needed one.... I have fooled with them a few times but I dont trust the units after they have had a fire in them...
> 
> better to change out the heaters than to have liability issues down the road
> 
> ...



Wow, that'd be about a 9.5 on the Pucker Scale.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> I have never needed one.... I have fooled with them a few times but I dont trust the units after they have had a fire in them... better to change out the heaters than to have liability issues down the road I made this dumb ass mistake with a whirlpool heater last week....the unit would not heat so I did what I had to do to get them hot water for that evening ... installed a new thermo-coupling and cleaned out all the lint... The unit rumbled from all the lime built up in it but I figured it would last the night I was comming back in the am to install a new pan and 50 gal rheem water heater..... The whirlpool got so hot over night that it warped the plastic pan it was sitting inn.... I suppose the baffle in the unit must have warped and would not let out the heat fast enough so it overheated the bottom of the unit....:blink:  that was not good thing to happen with my name on it, and I wont do that favor again for anyone ever again...


Pictures?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Pictures?


 
no, I dont have any pictures Never occoured to me to take some pictures but the heater is still in my junk yard

..My brother in law went back out to change out the heater so I only got the story about it after the change out was made...

he claimed that it warped the plastic pan under the heater and sort of "browned up" the vinyl flooring under the pan... .... oops.... :whistling2: 


Of course I dont know how long this puppy was overheating because it was over 10 years old... maybe it had been slowly cooking for a long time


it all sounded bad enough to me.....


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Plumbergeek said:


> That's why I rob them from every old water heater I find.....although I haven't needed one yet.


I had the glass safety valve pop on me once on a brand new install (on a Friday afternoon). I call Rheem and they say they will mail me a new one. They do not allow supply houses to carry a replacement. WTF?!?!?!??! Long time customer says "no problem, we will go somewhere fun for the weekend, see you Monday". I return Monday with another brand and throw the Rheem away. The safety vial didn't arrive either so I ordered another one. They both arrive same day 2 weeks later. Never again have I installed a Rheem, although I still have the safety vials at the shop.

Anybody want them?

David


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> no, I dont have any pictures Never occoured to me to take some pictures but the heater is still in my junk yard ..My brother in law went back out to change out the heater so I only got the story about it after the change out was made... he claimed that it warped the plastic pan under the heater and sort of "browned up" the vinyl flooring under the pan... .... oops.... :whistling2: Of course I dont know how long this puppy was overheating because it was over 10 years old... maybe it had been slowly cooking for a long time it all sounded bad enough to me.....


The T&P didn't discharge?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> The T&P didn't discharge?


It sounds like it may not have been overheating the water but had a blocked flue and was doing kind of a rollout against the pan...

Just my guess...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> It sounds like it may not have been overheating the water but had a blocked flue and was doing kind of a rollout against the pan...
> 
> Just my guess...



Redwood, very good guess......

you win a cookie....


this is the reason I like the Rheem design on the heaters....
when that vial breaks that is the end of the game.... you cant
get the damn thing to re-light no matter what..


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> this is the reason I like the Rheem design on the heaters....
> when that vial breaks that is the end of the game.... you cant
> get the damn thing to re-light no matter what..


Meaning the broken vial forces the customer to call you? What if it's your heater?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> Redwood, very good guess...... you win a cookie.... this is the reason I like the Rheem design on the heaters.... when that vial breaks that is the end of the game.... you cant get the damn thing to re-light no matter what..


Relighting can be done, but with the snap door closed, staying lit will only happen with the burner door pulled open slightly with the screws removed.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Redwood said:


> It sounds like it may not have been overheating the water but had a blocked flue and was doing kind of a rollout against the pan... Just my guess...



If the burner door was sealed it shouldn't have rolled out. The flame arrester should have stopped the flames from coming out of the bottom and it should have choked out from lack of o2.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> Meaning the broken vial forces the customer to call you? What if it's your heater?


if its my personal heater , out the door it goes and a new one gets installed....

I have come across a lot of Whirlpool heaters that had the looking glass broken out and the front panel loose to let air get into them... that is one way to skin a cat if you dont mind the liability


I have attempted to jerry rig Rheem heaters before 
to get by for the day ..... you can place anything you choose into the spring that holds open the air intake on a Rheem.... ...

I was not comfortable with the way they performed 
so I changed the heater...I dont need the liability and I probably dodjed a bullet with the Whirlpool heater last week...

(we have gone down this road before and I do remember well what happened) :whistling2::whistling2:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> if its my personal heater , out the door it goes and a new one gets installed.... I have come across a lot of Whirlpool heaters that had the looking glass broken out and the front panel loose to let air get into them... that is one way to skin a cat if you dont mind the liability I have attempted to jerry rig Rheem heaters before to get by for the day ..... you can place anything you choose into the spring that holds open the air intake on a Rheem.... ... I was not comfortable with the way they performed so I changed the heater...I dont need the liability and I probably dodjed a bullet with the Whirlpool heater last week... (we have gone down this road before and I do remember well what happened) :whistling2::whistling2:


Why did this particular whirlpool water heater perform as you described after you allegedly cleaned out the lint and replaced the thermocouple??
According to your story, it wouldn't fire and then went to over firing. A sealed fvir heater should have extinguished from the lack of oxygen when the burned gasses could not escape through your suggested baffle and flue restriction.

Why didn't the fvir tco trip while it was over firing? If the pan melted overnight, then the tco should have tripped. Did you connect the two leads together or something?

I'm not understanding why the overheating started after your so-called repairs. Quite frankly, considering your penchant to whack circuit boards with pliers, I'm not too sure your original diagnostic was correct either. Prove me wrong about your rad water heater diagnostic skills. Pretty please.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Why did this particular whirlpool water heater perform as you described after you allegedly cleaned out the lint and replaced the thermocouple??
> According to your story, it wouldn't fire and then went to over firing. A sealed fvir heater should have extinguished from the lack of oxygen when the burned gasses could not escape through your suggested baffle and flue restriction.
> 
> Why didn't the fvir tco trip while it was over firing? If the pan melted overnight, then the tco should have tripped. Did you connect the two leads together or something?
> ...


 
So you have licked your wounds , they have all healed up and now your are back for more...I wondered how many weeks it would be.....

I honestly dont care to get drug into a pissing contest with you about this silly little whirlpool water heater.

We changed it out and my brother in law told me that it had heated up and warped the pan underneath it and discolored the vinyl too... and thats pretty hot....
perhaps the thermal fuse had failed on it,,,, 

 and maybe its my mistake for not standing around to check the flu and the draw on the heater....and i dodjed a bullet... like I already stated....... 

maybe its still standing in my junk yard and I can take some pics of it so that we can bicker with each other.......


but who cares......please just give it a rest....

have a good x-mas ....


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

dhal22 said:


> I had the glass safety valve pop on me once on a brand new install (on a Friday afternoon). I call Rheem and they say they will mail me a new one. They do not allow supply houses to carry a replacement. WTF?!?!?!??! Long time customer says "no problem, we will go somewhere fun for the weekend, see you Monday". I return Monday with another brand and throw the Rheem away. The safety vial didn't arrive either so I ordered another one. They both arrive same day 2 weeks later. Never again have I installed a Rheem, although I still have the safety vials at the shop.
> 
> Anybody want them?
> 
> David


I'll take one!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

If its been overfired..meaning the gas valve been whacked one too many time!


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't know what it is about you residential service plumbers with the pissing matches lol


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ChrisConnor said:


> If the burner door was sealed it shouldn't have rolled out. The flame arrester should have stopped the flames from coming out of the bottom and it should have choked out from lack of o2.


Well it didn't actually roll out...
There was probably just enough of a flue opening where it could continue to fire...
Of course the flame arrestor did it's job...
But the bottom got plenty hot and almost way too hot...
Melting the plastic pan...

I'm pretty sure a Special Glass Vial might have been used...:whistling2:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Well it didn't actually roll out...
> There was probably just enough of a flue opening where it could continue to fire...
> Of course the flame arrestor did it's job...
> But the bottom got plenty hot and almost way too hot...
> ...


the whirlpool dont use special glass vials or anything else....

I put a thermocouplling on a 10 year old whirlpool heater and it lit right back up.... 

you guys can debate this till you are blue in the face


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> So you have licked your wounds , they have all healed up and now your are back for more...I wondered how many weeks it would be..


Lol. I didn't receive any wounds, but I do remember you slightly changing what you said with every post as the thread went on, Señor Whack.

But, I'm serious about this diagnostic and failure.

From the mechanical standpoint it doesn't make any sense. 
Was the chamber sealed? 
Were the tco leads connected together? 
Did the thermocouple test bad before you replaced it?
Flammables stored in the room?

You seem to gladly give the "why what I do is best" advice, but haven't shown cause and effect.

You like to say "it's better just to replace it", but it sounds like the problem is that you just don't know what you're doing in diagnosing these water heaters, which is dangerous enough.

I've seen where radiant heat from a gas water heater makes plastic pans and plastic stands become melty over time, but what you described, even including your admission of that you may have missed, does.not.make.sense.

Of course, you also are saying it's what your brother in law changed the heater. 

Btw, Is he a licensed plumber?

I'm not sure that it over heated overnight as you described, but you missed the plastic pan having been melted already.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> the whirlpool dont use special glass vials or anything else....
> 
> I put a thermocouplling on a 10 year old whirlpool heater and it lit right back up....
> 
> you guys can debate this till you are blue in the face


Ahh sorry for some reason I was thinking Rheem in a Rheem Thread...:laughing:

In any case the FVIR over temp sensing wasn't working...:whistling2:


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Well it didn't actually roll out...
> There was probably just enough of a flue opening where it could continue to fire...
> Of course the flame arrestor did it's job...
> But the bottom got plenty hot and almost way too hot...
> ...


It still doesn't change the fact that the reset on the TCO should've tripped and the gas valve would've shut off. 

The original description by MM in this thread didn't say if it was still lit when they arrived in the morning.

Since it was his brother in law who reported the finding, it's all hearsay.

It doesn't take a malfunctioning water heater to melt plastic pans. Radiant heat alone will do that. I think MM may have missed the pans failure on his original visit.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Ahh sorry for some reason I was thinking Rheem in a Rheem Thread...:laughing:
> 
> In any case the FVIR over temp sensing wasn't working...:whistling2:



Clogged with lint, bad thermocouple, bad tco, aaaaand a restriction in the flue? Heck, I'm waiting for the report that the gas valve eco was bad, too. lol.
unbelievable.

Considering he said the unit was rumbling from sediment build up, I'd more believe that the gas valve temperature probe was unable to read from being muddied with sediment and just fired constantly and that the tco wasn't the problem. Not that I'd really trust his channel lock diagnostics anyway.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> you guys can debate this till you are blue in the face


 I'd rather debate the failures of water heaters till I'm blue in the face than reading that your "channel lock diagnostics" led to CO poisoning and the customers are blue in the face. Oh, since rheem is putting on those honeywell valves like BW and AO Smith, are you still "adjusting" them in the same manner?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> I'd rather debate the failures of water heaters till I'm blue in the face than reading that your "channel lock diagnostics" led to CO poisoning and the customers are blue in the face.
> 
> Oh, since rheem is putting on those honeywell valves like BW and AO Smith, are you still "adjusting" them in the same manor?


 
yea, sure ... debate away with yourself....

 whatever you say..... I really dont care


go ahead and type your self up into a good lather.

burn up those keys....

barney.:laughing:.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> yea, sure ... debate away with yourself.... whatever you say..... I really dont care go ahead and type your self up into a good lather. burn up those keys.... barney.:laughing:.



I'm not as exited about this as you hope, but I do enjoy trying to understand how you diagnose water heaters. 

And is your brother in law a licensed plumber?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> I'm not as exited about this as you hope, but I do enjoy trying to understand how you diagnose water heaters.
> 
> And is your brother in law a licensed plumber?


 

you seem pretty agitated to me 

...I dont understand why you need to have a pissing contest with me... its just blowing back in your face ...:yes:

and why are you worried about my brother-in -law anyway??? I believe he got his masters lisc in 1985, ....my guess that is about the time you were getting out of the 3 rd grade Yes?? 

So why does it matter to you how I go about deciding when 
to change out a 10 year old whilrpool water heater on the second floor of a home???

why has that got you all upset????

you need to turn that frown up-side down pal....


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> you seem pretty agitated to me ...I dont understand why you need to have a pissing contest with me... its just blowing back in your face ...:yes: and why are you worried about my brother-in -law anyway??? I believe he got his masters lisc in 1985, ....my guess that is about the time you were getting out of the 3 rd grade Yes?? So why does it matter to you how I go about deciding when to change out a 10 year old whilrpool water heater on the second floor of a home??? why has that got you all upset???? you need to turn that frown up-side down pal....


 No, MM, I'm not upset.
I just have questions about your diagnostics. I find them peculiar and funny. I'm intrigued by the "bullet dodging" and the other ways your "better change it out" policy is used to sell water heaters. 
I asked a few questions about this whirlpool because you I wanted to know what caused the alleged second failure. When you consider you have whacked BW gas valves with channel locks, and consider the thermopile to be difficult to understand, I was interested to read what other brutish methods you may have employed with this whirlpool. The fact that I have a tendency to be facetious when talking to you is just a thing I do to push your buttons and see what you'll say next.


,


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> No, MM, I'm not upset.
> I just have questions about your diagnostics. I find them peculiar and funny. I'm intrigued by the "bullet dodging" and the other ways your "better change it out" policy is used to sell water heaters.
> I asked a few questions about this whirlpool because you I wanted to know what caused the alleged second failure. When you consider you have whacked BW gas valves with channel locks, and consider the thermopile to be difficult to understand, I was interested to *read what other brutish methods you may have employed with this whirlpool*. The fact that I have a tendency to be facetious when talking to you is just a thing I do to push your buttons and see what you'll say next.
> 
> ...


 
What was there to diagnose???
they had no hot water,,, I installed a new t-coupling on the unit and it fired back up..... 

Being rental property and being on the second floor and being that it was rumbling due to its age and lime buildup.. I told the landlord she would be wise to change it out before it caused her troubles....and she agreed..

being it was about 3.45pm we got them hot water for the night and we were out at their home about 11am..the next day......

Now that you brought the subject up, do you have a lisc or do you just do drain work...??


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> What was there to diagnose???
> they had no hot water,,, I installed a new t-coupling on the unit and it fired back up.....
> 
> 
> Now that you brought the subject up, do you have a lisc or do you just do drain work...??


Yes, I have an unrestricted Master Plumber license.

The time of day limits are of no consequence in the diagnosis so the way you seem to imply that you're just trying to "get the hot water back on", which really isn't pertinent to your story. I'm sure that you want to feel like a hero, but who really cares about the hour? I also don't care about the age of the heater. Sure she was going to replace it soon, but that's not important in determining what the problem actually was. You don't get special considerations because it was getting close to Miller Time.

What was there to diagnose?


Master Mark said:


> What was there to diagnose???


There's a whole slew of things to diagnose on a gas water heater that's not firing.

Well earlier you said that you cleaned the lint out and replaced the thermocouple, but was the tco tripped before you started? 

Did you test the tco for continuity before you started pressing resets and pushing the piezo?

Determining if it was really tripped is simple as getting out your electrical testers. You do have electrical testers, don't you? They are not channel locks!:no:

Determining if the tco tripped gets you on the right page in determining the cause of failure. Hopefully you don't just push the reset and try to light it.
Eliminating the tco in the failure allows you to diagnose other things.

Also, the bladed connectors can get loose and cause the unit to fault out. Sometimes just securing them will let the unit fire normally. GOOD NEWS YOU CAN USE YOUR CHANNEL LOCKS FOR THIS PART!!

Did you actually test the thermocouple? A bad gas valve may go out and not light, but when you turn the temperature setting knob it goes back to functioning, at least for a while. When that happens, it appears that the thermocouple change out was the solution, when it was the gas valve the whole time.


Hows the make up air in the room?

What about gas supply, was it adequate? 

What was the color of the flame when the unit was firing?

Did the flame appear to be drawing up the flue ok? That's an easy visual to determine a whole host of potential problems like the one that you suggested.

When you pulled the combustion door, was there a bunch of stuff on top of the burner? How about inside the combustion chamber, much grit? 

Out of curiosity, how do you get the intake flame arrester clean? Those whirlpool units are a PITA to get to. The whirlpool water heater sits on three legs and the intake is then recessed in the bottom an inch or so.

There are other things, to diagnose, but those are my "got to check" things that most people don't do.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Yes, I have an unrestricted Master Plumber license.
> 
> The time of day limits are of no consequence in the diagnosis so the way you seem to imply that you're just trying to "get the hot water back on", which really isn't pertinent to your story. I'm sure that you want to feel like a hero, but who really cares about the hour? I also don't care about the age of the heater. Sure she was going to replace it soon, but that's not important in determining what the problem actually was. You don't get special considerations because it was getting close to Miller Time.
> 
> ...




":blink:]jesus christ :blink:
you really typed your fingers off tonight...

really worked up a good lather .. 

I hope that you get it out of your system and 
your throbbing hard on for me eventually goes down :laughing:


you got me on the ropes again........:laughing::yes:[/SIZE]


take care of yourself


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> ":blink:]jesus christ :blink: you really typed your fingers off tonight... really worked up a good lather .. I hope that you get it out of your system and your throbbing hard on for me eventually goes down :laughing: you got me on the ropes again........:laughing::yes: take care of yourself


You're welcome.

Hopefully, you'll learn how these thing work and it might keep you from nearly killing somebody again. (That's if what you described ever really happened) If not you, then some other plumber who reads these forums. It's not about you, it's about the profession. 

Personally, I'd rather be known as an as$hole who tells it like it is. than a guy who says he adjusts circuit boards with blunt force or a guy who lies for convenience.

I hope I answered your "what's there to diagnose?" question. I'm sure that you'll take something from our discussion. Although I am very interested in how you'd handle the controls on a tankless unit. I'll wait patiently to read what you'll do when you find a rinnai won't fire. I don't think your "best to change it out" policy will carry you as far.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Hopefully, you'll learn how these thing work and it might keep you from nearly killing somebody again. (That's if what you described ever really happened) If not you, then some other plumber who reads these forums. It's not about you, it's about the profession.
> 
> ...



Well good luck to you,, I hope all goes well for you,, 
Also, I hope what ever has turned you into such a bitter nasty little
assho/e turns out for the best....
maybe you are just low on your meds..


I am sure on this forum you are known as a big asshol/ just like you want to be..:thumbsup:. 

merry x-mas 

....


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> Well good luck to you,, I hope all goes well for you,, Also, I hope what ever has turned you into such a bitter nasty little assho/e turns out for the best.... maybe you are just low on your meds.. I am sure on this forum you are known as a big asshol/ just like you want to be..:thumbsup:. merry x-mas ....


lol. 
Hahaha. MM, don't hold back, let me know how you really feel.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> lol.
> Hahaha. MM, don't hold back, let me know how you really feel.



No problem.....if that is what you enjoy

I think it best to close this thread before you totally fly off
the handle like you did a few months ago with me..
that was pretty weird and creepy :whistling2:


merry x-mas


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> No problem.....if that is what you enjoy
> 
> I think it best to close this thread before you totally fly off
> the handle like you did a few months ago with me..
> ...


You mean close the thread so you won't be asked any more technical and diagnostic questions that you can't answer anyway. :yes:

I don't know what was so weird and creepy about it. You declare the difficulty of water heater diagnostics as "convoluted" and "complicated" and I showed you otherwise. Either way, it's pretty obvious that your diagnostic skills are sub par. If I'm weird and creepy for calling you out for giving hack advice, then so be it. :laughing:

With your diagnostic tactics, it's only a matter of time before you're on a hidden camera exposé of a guy trying to sell a water heater when it's only a loose thermopile connection. You remember when you called the bradford white thermopile complicated? lol.

I must admit, dumbassery fascinates me, I enjoy your water heater posts. :yes:


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Chris, I used to repair everything. Shower valves, faucets, water heaters, etc, etc, why replace when I can fix it. Then I hired a salesman/plumber (master plumber) who hated repairs. He replaced everything. In arguing with him over what's the right thing to do (repair vs replace), he said you lose money when you repair, why lose money?

He left a couple of years ago, I still like to give my customer their best option but the argument is there. You get a dripping 3 handle shower valve call, you show up, identify the brand/make, then head somewhere for the repair parts. 3 hours later the old shower valve is back to original condition. What do you charge? $300? $400? $200? Why not give them a modern single handle for $550 and be done in less time?

Whether this relates to the discussion here, I don't know but my salesman 'plumber' made me crazy money via the replace method. And he didn't no a lot about plumbing.

David


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> Chris, I used to repair everything. Shower valves, faucets, water heaters, etc, etc, why replace when I can fix it. Then I hired a salesman/plumber (master plumber) who hated repairs. He replaced everything. In arguing with him over what's the right thing to do (repair vs replace), he said you lose money when you repair, why lose money? He left a couple of years ago, I still like to give my customer their best option but the argument is there. You get a dripping 3 handle shower valve call, you show up, identify the brand/make, then head somewhere for the repair parts. 3 hours later the old shower valve is back to original condition. What do you charge? $300? $400? $200? Why not give them a modern single handle for $550 and be done in less time? Whether this relates to the discussion here, I don't know but my salesman 'plumber' made me crazy money via the replace method. And he didn't no a lot about plumbing. David


I don't have a problem with replacement, none at all. I carry seven different complete kits for the old style three handle shower valves plus delta and Moen cartridges, seats and springs etc, but always offer my customer the replacement option. 

This hijack is about understanding controls, for the sake of value and safety. 

I honestly wanted to know the specific failure in this unit. Anything that threatens life and property, like the aforementioned whirlpool allegedly did, should be understood.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> I don't have a problem with replacement, none at all. I carry seven different complete kits for the old style three handle shower valves plus delta and cartridges, seats and springs etc, but always offer my customer the replacement option.
> 
> This hijack is about understanding controls, for the sake of value and safety.
> 
> I honestly wanted to know the specific failure in this unit. Anything that threatens life and property, like the aforementioned whirlpool allegedly did, should be understood.




No, You dont honestly want to do anything but start an argument for the sake of an argument...and play prosecutor, judge and jury over a 10 year old water heater...and think I am gonna jump through a bunch of hoops to win your approval.......

I believe I got that water heater sitting in my scrap yard and you can come over any time and stick your head in the damn thing if you so wish.....but I am not gonna waste my time with your petty self.... 

have a good x-mas
...


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> No, You dont honestly want to do anything but start an argument for the sake of an argument...and play prosecutor, judge and jury over a 10 year old water heater...and think I am gonna jump through a bunch of hoops to win your approval....... I believe I got that water heater sitting in my scrap yard and you can come over any time and stick your head in the damn thing if you so wish.....but I am not gonna waste my time with your petty self.... have a good x-mas ...


Naah, bruh, I told you, I don't care that it was 10 years old, I just wanted to know what caused the alleged over-fire. I was quite intrigued by your admitted disservice in relighting and leaving an undiagnosed water heater that you yourself claimed melted the pan and floor.

Just because it fired, doesn't mean it fired correctly, and you, the licensed professional, risked the health of these folks in the two story house because it was Miller Time. 

You let this become an argument, when it could've been a discussion.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> Naah, bruh, I told you, I don't care that it was 10 years old, I just wanted to know what caused the alleged over-fire. I was quite intrigued by your admitted disservice in relighting and leaving an undiagnosed water heater that you yourself claimed melted the pan and floor.
> 
> Just because it fired, doesn't mean it fired correctly, and you, the licensed professional, risked the health of these folks in the two story house because it was Miller Time.
> 
> You let this become an argument, when it could've been a discussion.


Nicely said.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> no, I dont have any pictures Never occoured to me to take some pictures but the heater is still in my junk yard
> 
> ..My brother in law went back out to change out the heater so I only got the story about it after the change out was made...
> 
> ...


One reason I only use alimunum pans on whs


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

oh please Chris, , you know that you dont want to have a discussion, your whole tone from the very first post was more of an inquisition than a discussion..

take whatever I say and attempt to turn it into a federal case..
I will play along with you for a while but I know you are just
trying to pull my chain...

I remember the last spat you had with me and 
I know you cant take what you dish out....

lets just drop the whole thing..

merry x-mas .



..


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> One reason I only use alimunum pans on whs




I usually install the Oaty plastic pans and put the water heaters on paver bricks inside the pans... seems to distribute the weight better....

we have seen the weight of heaters sitting directly in the pans actually grind the plastic down to nothing and they leak....I have seen the metal pans pit over time too


oops...
I guess this confession will turn into another inquisition over my use of the plastic pans..... look what have I done now...

:blink::blink:



[


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Well it didn't actually roll out...
> There was probably just enough of a flue opening where it could continue to fire...
> Of course the flame arrestor did it's job...
> But the bottom got plenty hot and almost way too hot...
> ...





Master Mark said:


> I usually install the Oaty plastic pans and put the water heaters on paver bricks inside the pans... seems to distribute the weight better....
> 
> we have seen the weight of heaters sitting directly in the pans actually grind the plastic down to nothing and they leak....I have seen the metal pans pit over time too
> 
> ...




Lololololo yep you have done it again!!!!


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> oh please Chris, , you know that you dont want to have a discussion, your whole tone from the very first post was more of an inquisition than a discussion..
> 
> take whatever I say and attempt to turn it into a federal case..
> I will play along with you for a while but I know you are just
> ...


Inquisition, discussion, whatever. Questions and answers. 

You started a thread and act like you're wanting to give to the trade, so I asked a question about a story you told. (yeah, I say things like "story" because I really don't believe that what you say is true, but I let you run with it)

I've never been unable to "take it", Mark. As it's clearly said in the earlier post in this thread, you started implying that I received some sort of wounds from our last discussion about water heater controls that you clearly didn't understand I posted pics in response in my rebuttal.

I started my so-called inquisition with a question because I wanted to see what caused the failure you described. As you recall, I take a pictures of water heater components and post them for posterity. I like to give back to the trade. I did that because in a couple of minutes I can explain with pictures how simple these new valves are and what's inside of them.

In a couple of minutes I can show other plumbers how the intakes on BW water heaters are sized to the entire bottom of the heater and not restricted through that soup-can trap door that Rheem uses... or the opening on AO Smith water heaters, that's about 1/4 the size of the Bradford White intake.

In a couple of minutes I explained with pictures how that Bradford White thermopile that you called "convoluted" and "complicated", is just a couple of plugs and is easier to change than a thermocouple thanks to the BW split door design. I asked you why you said it was so hard to understand, I never received a response...:whistling2:

Now, I do relish your song and dance about how it's "_better to change it out_" and how you "_don't trust one after there's been a fire inside_". Which is ludicrous because *there's always a "fire inside"*, it's a fecking gas water heater!! I don't know if you realized that the whole damn thing is a fire box. I don't know if you knew that about gas water heaters, so I thought I might as well let you in on it. YOU'RE WELCOME!!

Also, FVIR TCOs don't always trip because there was a "fire inside", the early AO Smith and State FVIR water heaters had that retarded, no offense, thermocouple that would get to hot and kick off when the unit was installed in an attic. Total troubleshooting headache. Want some pictures?

So, yes, I'm a little condescending, but I gave you every chance to show me that you're a professional who knows what he's working on and not some guy who's justifications for changing them out should be stated as:

"it's best to change it out...because I don't understand how to work on the damn things and I'll probably burn the house down".

:laughing:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Enough of this buzzshuting... now I would like to know who make water heater for Sears?? Snagged my nieghor's discarded 50 gals gas heater.. the thing is only 3 yrs and 3 months installed with well water..


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Enough of this buzzshuting... now I would like to know who make water heater for Sears?? Snagged my nieghor's discarded 50 gals gas heater.. the thing is only 3 yrs and 3 months installed with well water..


Lol, this is teh internets, it's all bullsheiting!

I think sears is ao smith. Posting a pic is the easiest way to know.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> Lol, this is teh internets, it's all bullsheiting!
> 
> I think sears is ao smith. Posting a pic is the easiest way to know.


 Still don't know how to send pixs here with folding ruler... gas valve looks like the kind that braford white have, but its all busted up.. being wacked tooo many times??


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

It's an AO Smith. Probably had a plastic drain valve.


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