# Gas Lines



## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

What's your go to material? Iron pipe or CSST?

I keep seeing all of these ads for flexible gas lines all over the place, my supply house, plumbing zone, and even at the contractor continual education classes. Frankly I think it looks like crap and would never want it in my house.


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## plumbny (Apr 6, 2013)

Looks like he'll and its def not safe iron pipe all the way. We are ruining the trade


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumbny said:


> Looks like he'll and its def not safe iron pipe all the way. We are ruining the trade




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## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

We use trac pipe currently if we do use it on a job 
I'm not a huge fan of putting it in walls because of dumb home owners with hammers and nails. If you so use it though always bond and ground it I've seen a lot of improper installations and its a house fire just waiting to happen


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## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

Iron pipe is our main go to material


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I've used gastite on residential, but I think I'm going back to iron pipe. In these parts, the gas company wants you to used gal.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

andy86 said:


> We use trac pipe currently if we do use it on a job
> I'm not a huge fan of putting it in walls because of dumb home owners with hammers and nails. If you so use it though always bond and ground it I've seen a lot of improper installations and its a house fire just waiting to happen


I agree to your point of using CSST in walls for fear of nails or screws. What I don't agree on is calling homeowners stupid. What do they know about gas pipe? Even I ran a screw through PVC and copper lines. I don't think homeowners have X-ray vision. Blame the installer for using CSST in walls.


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## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> I agree to your point of using CSST in walls for fear of nails or screws. What I don't agree on is calling homeowners stupid. What do they know about gas pipe? Even I ran a screw through PVC and copper lines. I don't think homeowners have X-ray vision. Blame the installer for using CSST in walls.


I was more talking about homeowners who put screws and nails wherever without looking for studs first with a decent stud finder and your right it is the responsibility of the installer


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## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

And I know stud finders can be a hit and miss anyways


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Some stud finders think waste and vent lines are studs. Brainless little tools.


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## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

They sure are


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## heeterman1 (Feb 12, 2013)

plumberkc said:


> What's your go to material? Iron pipe or CSST?
> 
> I keep seeing all of these ads for flexible gas lines all over the place, my supply house, plumbing zone, and even at the contractor continual education classes. Frankly I think it looks like crap and would never want it in my house.


it all has its place it's been around for a long time good never seen before you don't have that much experience


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## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

Here in Iowa they have banned it from being used in a few counties and seems like more are considering it


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## dplumb (Jan 6, 2013)

Iron all the way. CSST was banned in MA for a while a few years back. Now we can use it here but it needs to be bonded by an electrician or a product such as CounterStrike needs to be used. I have had a hard time finding electricians to bond it because it isn't in their code here and they don't want the liability if something were to happen. Besides, nothing beats the clean look of iron pipe and fittings... right angles, not bends!


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

If you can't take the time to figure and cut a pipe then don't run gas. Steel is the one of choice but you see a lot of other products in slap happy operations . Speed isn't everything you have to leave quality behind or you will blend in with the average. Steel is been a quality product for many years and will stay that way for many more.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I gave gas pex a try but it scares me. Too much lightening around here. I have not found a situation where I can't use steel.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I use Flashshield CSST and had nothing wrong with it. We get it bonded, even though it is not required with Flashshield. I also use black steel too, but I personaly have no issues at all with Flashshield and will put it in my own home. I protect it with a sleeve in stud cavities, not as strong as steel pipe, but it is better than no protection.


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

Steel doesn't take that much longer to install, if you know what you are doing. 

There are situations where the tracpipe makes more sense. For instance, early this year we had a job with BI in a garage leading to gas lanterns on pillars near the entrance of a building. We would have had to order a PE x epoxy coated steel nipple, have an extension welded onto that to be long enough to reach through the foundation wall, put a test on the nipple so the inspector could see that the weld was holding, then installed it and ran PE over to the lantern. Transitioning to the underground sleeved tracpipe just inside the garage and running that all the way to the lantern made a lot more sense.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

phishfood said:


> Steel doesn't take that much longer to install, if you know what you are doing.
> 
> There are situations where the tracpipe makes more sense. For instance, early this year we had a job with BI in a garage leading to gas lanterns on pillars near the entrance of a building. We would have had to order a PE x epoxy coated steel nipple, have an extension welded onto that to be long enough to reach through the foundation wall, put a test on the nipple so the inspector could see that the weld was holding, then installed it and ran PE over to the lantern. Transitioning to the underground sleeved tracpipe just inside the garage and running that all the way to the lantern made a lot more sense.


It's not just the amount of time or money, IMO, CSST if installed right and the right materials used, is a superior product than Black Steel.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Way I see it is some people think tankless is the best way to go, I don't, I think a tank type water heater is better. Or some people believe trenchless or pipe lining is the way to go, I'd prefer to dig and replace. Or some think copper is the best option, I feel Uponor is just as good is not better. I like CSST, you have to do some stuff to it to make it work, it's the uneducated that give it a bad name. It's not a user friendly as some might think.


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## plumbny (Apr 6, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> If you can't take the time to figure and cut a pipe then don't run gas. Steel is the one of choice but you see a lot of other products in slap happy operations . Speed isn't everything you have to leave quality behind or you will blend in with the average. Steel is been a quality product for many years and will stay that way for many more.


Well said


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

We use Gastite in the attics with little access or when there are lots of bends and rigid in the walls.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Will said:


> It's not just the amount of time or money, IMO, CSST if installed right and the right materials used, is a superior product than Black Steel.


In what way is CSST better than steel? I'm not talking about easier, I'm talking about better.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I think the only thing that makes it superior is that its faster. It saves on labor but your out of pocket more $.


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## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

Also less joints


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> In what way is CSST better than steel? I'm not talking about easier, I'm talking about better.


I feel once installed, it gives you a more versatile system with the manifolds. Easier to add on to in the future if the homeowner would like to add a BBQ grill etc. I think the connection is better, less joints also so probably less chance of future leaks. I've gone on I don't know how many gas leaks with steel pipe, I think CSST will outlast a steel system. Better in areas with earthquakes also. My option is CSST is a better product. They both have there advantages over the other and there are situations where CSST is better and times where Steel is better.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Will said:


> Easier to add on to in the future if the homeowner would like to add a BBQ grill etc.


And you think this is a good thing...? This just means that they will do it themselves or call out mr handyman to come out and overload the system.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not referring to them doing the add-on, just saying if they wanted too, it is more feasible to do so. 99 out of 100 homeowners will not mess with Gas. CSST or Steel. A monkey can install PE gas yard lines, but you don't see homeowners installing it. Saying CSST is user friendly and that homeowners will "take" our work is bogus.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Will said:


> Saying CSST is user friendly and that homeowners will "take" our work is bogus.


It happens all the time my friend. Why do you think they sell CSST at HD?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> It happens all the time my friend. Why do you think they sell CSST at HD?


Good. I'll go fix it after that jack it up. Not taking food off my plate, I'm doing just fine


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

They sell cut and thread blk steel for you at hd we have had many a times an ho calls wanting to know how to add a tee in their blk steel gas
Line so they can go get the hd to buy the steel to add some new fixture


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

wyplumber said:


> They sell cut and thread blk steel for you at hd we have had many a times an ho calls wanting to know how to add a tee in their blk steel gas
> Line so they can go get the hd to buy the steel to add some new fixture


If you've ever asked them to cut and thread a piece of steel, you'd know our jobs are safe.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I just bid a job with both pex and csst, flexible gas line. 


If ya can't beat them, join them. Throw in a few sharkbites to boot. :whistling2:


I have to pull both lines through a chase in the basement that follows the beam. Customer has no problem with us putting in numerous access points on the side of this soffett, and I know those two products will allow us to bring 3/4" gas along with a water supply for a fridge in a kitchen remodel without butchering the finished basement up.

Won't know if I get the job for a couple weeks.


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

Sounds like this has become a putty or silicone, style discussion. Since everyone on this forum are professionals @ what they do, it appears that there are different strokes for different folks. I personally have no issue with CSST. It's just another option in our toolbox. I believe that no matter what material one chooses to utilize, if it is done by a licensed professional, sized, installed, and tested properly, then what the hell. If the labor savings with CSST is the difference between getting and losing a bid, I am walking through the door with a razor knife, some tubing cutters and a smile.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Where is copper in the options? We can run copper in my part of the woods.

Here options are copper, black iron, galvanized or csst


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> I agree to your point of using CSST in walls for fear of nails or screws. What I don't agree on is calling homeowners stupid. What do they know about gas pipe? Even I ran a screw through PVC and copper lines. I don't think homeowners have X-ray vision. Blame the installer for using CSST in walls.


It was my understanding when I was schooled by a gastite rep eleven years ago if you support it the way they require it the pipe will move out of the way before a screw will penetrate it. It have not used it a lot but some. Are you saying this is not the case.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

suzie said:


> It was my understanding when I was schooled by a gastite rep eleven years ago if you support it the way they require it the pipe will move out of the way before a screw will penetrate it. It have not used it a lot but some. Are you saying this is not the case.


Not if the nail or screw happens to hit where the pipe is secured.


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

JK949 said:



> If you've ever asked them to cut and thread a piece of steel, you'd know our jobs are safe.


Never have had to ask but judging buy how they perform other tasks your correct I would bet.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

They make a sleeving for CSST to protect it from nails. YOu can also put 2x4's behind the piping to protect it on exterior walls from siding nails, and if your real worried about it on interior walls, j-hook it to the center of the wall cavity and nail structural plates up the whole wall. Really makes me scratch my head how some people can't seem to find a way to protect a pipe.....


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

I'm not going to say ive never used csst. I'm certified in gastite, trackpipe, & wardflex and at some point in my career installed all three brands. But hands down I prefer "American made" black iron pipe any day. Not a big fan of the possibility of a liability lawsuit over csst failure for any reason, ie: lightning strike, improper bonding, screws/nails. Black pipe to me pros out weigh the cons.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

JK949 said:


> If you've ever asked them to cut and thread a piece of steel, you'd know our jobs are safe.


I'm going to have to try this sometime....

Excuse me, I need a 2" close nipple, can you cut me one please Mr. orangs apron?


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

theplumbinator said:


> I'm not going to say ive never used csst. I'm certified in gastite, trackpipe, & wardflex and at some point in my career installed all three brands. But hands down I prefer "American made" black iron pipe any day. Not a big fan of the possibility of a liability lawsuit over csst failure for any reason, ie: lightning strike, improper bonding, screws/nails. Black pipe to me pros out weigh the cons.



Holy Crap, We still make things here in the US.


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

Yep but your gonna pay for it....


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

The delivery we just got from ferg 800' of 2"
Blk with Korea stamped right on it


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

Black all the way.
CSST looks like ass, especially the bigger sizes and not that much cheaper in the long run. 
We just put in about 1000' of 2 1/2" and 2" on a roof and it was all from Turkey. No problems thank goodness.


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## theplumbinator (Sep 6, 2012)

Got some black pipe from Ferguson a few years ago made in good'ol republic of China. and after I spent two days 20 feet in the air on a sissor lift installing it, to my dismay after air testing my work discovered every length of pipe had porosity holes along the seams of the Pipeing. So since then for the extra few bucks I buy the made in USA brands now. Never had any problem since.


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