# Side Jobs



## IPLUMB (Jul 15, 2009)

Does Your Company Allow It Or Frown Upon It. 

I Sure As Hell Do
FROWN UPON IT


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah, its a "frown on" for me. I was never a sidejobber type as an employee, so naturally I don't condone it as an employer either.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Most guys I know wont do a side job unless they need money. As long as it doesnt interfere with there #1 job I have no problems with it, if someone hires them and im not loosing work over it I have no problem whatsoever with a man working to get the bills paid. If I know there going back to a job ive bid to undercut me then there fired. I Frown on my GOV


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## hepco (Jul 29, 2008)

I know this doesnt really go with what the topic it but its always funny to me when i have a customer ask me if i can do a job for them on a Saturday or after hours when im not busy or off work so it will be cheaper. Funny thing is I own the company and that would in some aspects be considered overtime.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Forbidden with the exception of helping family. Material for self or family at cost.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Side jobs are great, they bought me all kind of stuff. Just dont let me catch you doing it, or im gonna be mad.


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

side jobs got my business rollin!!!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I did side jobs and it kept food on my table during the 82 recession. I have 2 sons who work for me and I pay way above grade and subsidize the bsnss when its slow and I dont like it anymore. Bring it in the business. 
I wouldnt be able to control any other employees as I had before but would still frown.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I can probalby count the number of side jobs I did on one hand in the 13 years I worked for somebody else. When I did do them, I worked out of my own truck with my own tools and bought my own material. I can see how this would still be a problem for an employer but I did them more as favors than I did to make $$. As an employer, I wouldn't want anyone doing side jobs and if they were doing them in my vehicle or with my equipment/material they'd be gone. 





paul


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I used to do side jobs here and there when I was an employee. When I started studying for my master’s license I put a halt to it because I realized I was committing a felony by doing it. It just never dawned on me that what I was doing was against the law and that I could be jailed/fined/sued for it.

I mean think about it, what would have happened if i flooded someone's house or it blew it up? No insurance, no corporation, no license. The courts would have eaten my lunch.

Something to think about for all you non-licenses employees…..


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

In my company it is one of the quickest ways to loose your job.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

It's covered in our employee manual - side jobs are grounds for dismissal. (Only exception, working for family).

During this recession we paid plumbers when they didn't work and we paid better than average wages - if that is not enough for you, then you should find another job/career. 

Performing side jobs is competing against your employer. If you didn't do the side job, the HO would have to decide between having a hack do it or hire a Professional Plumber.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

It all depends which side of the fence your on......


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

As an employee, I appreciated the no side job rule. Took a lot of pressure off of me.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

They are illegal in Illinois.


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

It depended on my employer. If he allowed them I did them if not I didn't. Now as a business owner. no way.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Maybe we do side jobs to pay for things we want but can't afford, with the 40 hour pay If a want a 60" tv its obvious the bill money won't be used, and the side jobs I take on are usually service or small renovations which will never get in my bosses way he has his own huge customer list and 2 repair guys the rest is all new construction homes and commercial work


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

The side jobs might not cut into your boss' business, but they are cutting into some other plumber's business.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Mike Jessome said:


> Maybe we do side jobs to pay for things we want but can't afford, with the 40 hour pay If a want a 60" tv its obvious the bill money won't be used, and the side jobs I take on are usually service or small renovations which will never get in my bosses way he has his own huge customer list and 2 repair guys the rest is all new construction homes and commercial work


If your boss allows it, side job money is good to pay for the 'extras.' Personally, if one of our plumbers wanted to make more money, I would hope they would come to me. Another way to make more money is to make yourself more valuable to your employer. If you are great at selling side jobs, bring in those accounts and I would pay you a bonus!

If you are an employee and your first concern is always yourself, don't be surprised when you work for an employer who only looks after his interest.

We look after our employees like they were family and they recipricate. It's a win/win and makes working not seem like work. I love our employees and they feel the same.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> If your boss allows it, side job money is good to pay for the 'extras.' Personally, if one of our plumbers wanted to make more money, I would hope they would come to me. Another way to make more money is to make yourself more valuable to your employer. If you are great at selling side jobs, bring in those accounts and I would pay you a bonus!
> 
> If you are an employee and your first concern is always yourself, don't be surprised when you work for an employer who only looks after his interest.
> 
> We look after our employees like they were family and they recipricate. It's a win/win and makes working not seem like work. I love our employees and they feel the same.


Yea I work for a guy who owns his own bussiness and he only looks after himself im here working until 8-9 o'clock at night some evenings atfer working all day for him 6:30 to about 4:30-5:00 while all he does is drive around from job to job and annoy the hell out of me little off topic maybe your right working for a guy who cared would be all right


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

Mike Jessome said:


> Yea I work for a guy who owns his own bussiness and he only looks after himself im here working until 8-9 o'clock at night some evenings atfer working all day for him 6:30 to about 4:30-5:00 while all he does is drive around from job to job and annoy the hell out of me little off topic maybe your right working for a guy who cared would be all right


THAT'S BECAUSE HE'S THE BOSS!


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Not all bosses are like that. My husband is working all day today for our plumber (he's building his own home) for nothing. They are running all the water lines, temp is going to be record high, no A/C. Why is he working for free on his day off? Our plumber would do the same for us.

The more we give, the more we get. The more our plumbers give, the more they get.

Some people shouldn't be bosses - they give the rest of us a bad name.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

uaplumber said:


> Forbidden with the exception of helping family. Material for self or family at cost.



Same where I am. Why should I bust my a$$ all week to work without protection on my time off? Not to mention being illegal, and a huge hassle to do work out off my personal truck. 

Put in a 50' water service for my parents, my boss let me use the shop jackhammer and sold me some ball valves plus a pressure regulator. My folks kicked some cash over to me, but I would've done it for free. 

People that want a deal can call the shop, if I know them they can usually get a discount. Better to do that than have the side job talk.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Not if you live in a state that requires one to be licensed to do plumbing. If you live in one of those states you're breaking the law by doing side work(aside from screwing your employer over). You are also potentially screwing the HO. If you cause property damage, who will be picking up the tab?



pauliplumber said:


> It all depends which side of the fence your on......


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

What about if it was illegal in your state?



al said:


> It depended on my employer. If he allowed them I did them if not I didn't. Now as a business owner. no way.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Mike Jessome said:


> Maybe we do side jobs to pay for things we want but can't afford, with the 40 hour pay If a want a 60" tv its obvious the bill money won't be used, and the side jobs I take on are usually service or small renovations which will never get in my bosses way he has his own huge customer list and 2 repair guys the rest is all new construction homes and commercial work


Regardless of what you do for a living, you have to live within your means, bro. Been there, didn't do it. It's not your bosses fault that you want a lifestyle you can't afford. Siders really hurt the plumbing contractors, because they condition the costumer base to expect an unrealistic low price. It contributes to a lot of the woes you read on here. Go ahead, sharpen the knife that's cutting your own throat.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

In Florida, if a HO enters into a contract(including a verbal agreement) with an unlicensed individual the HO is not legally obligated to pay for the work. The only exceptions are small repairs that don't require a permit.

Example: HO takes plumber to the side and says "Will you remodel my bathroom on the side? I'll pay you cash."

Plumber does job. Plumber asks for his $. HO says he/she aint payin. Plumber sues HO. HO stands up in court and tells the judge that the plumber isn't licensed and didn't pull a permit. Judge throws the case out on the grounds that under Florida law "contracts entered into by unlicensed individuals are unenforceable".

But wait, there's more! Let's say that a supply line blows off shortly there after and floods the HO's house causing $100K in damages. The HO can now sue the unlicensed plumbing contractor for 3X (three times) the actual damages under Fl law. So the HO can now sue the plumber for $300K! The law provides for a multiplier in the event that a HO suffers damages from an unlicensed individual(why I don't know, maybe as a deterrent?).

Food for thought of you live in FL. Some states have similar laws as well.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Preach it brother!!




jjbex said:


> Regardless of what you do for a living, you have to live within your means, bro. Been there, didn't do it. It's not your bosses fault that you want a lifestyle you can't afford. Siders really hurt the plumbing contractors, because they condition the costumer base to expect an unrealistic low price. It contributes to a lot of the woes you read on here. Go ahead, sharpen the knife that's cutting your own throat.


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## That One Guy (Sep 14, 2008)

Side jobs are a no no here and I think it also speaks volumes about your character. If you doing side jobs then what else are you doing? How many company supplied faucets are in your house? 

As the supervisor/manager for my company that is one of the things I hate the most and it would be a real slap in the face since our guys treated like family and dont have to worry about not getting paid even during slow times. 

Of course we have all been asked to do side jobs but the way I see it I dont want to plumb when im off work, even though im technically never off hehe.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Side Jobs?
Isn't that just another word for stealing from your employer? :furious:

You'd have to be some kinda scumbag to do that!:whistling2:


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

It's almost like I'm related to plumbcrazy, we have the same ideas about how to run a shop.


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## hepco (Jul 29, 2008)

how far can you really go without a license. I mean on a bath remodel, theres not much that can be done without breaking a trap. At that point, license needed. However if you unlicensed working this way, whats the probem. Maybe you wont get paid. Others problems, you get a slap on the hand and then are restricted from doing any work until you obtain a license. On the other hand if you are licensed and somethings with your work then youll be liable for everything.


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## albplumber1975 (Jun 20, 2009)

No insurance, thats a really good point....I will forsure remember that one. I personaly hate side jobs because everyone wants it for dam near free and I spend 40hrs a week on the books fixing stuff with a fully stocked truck, I dont want to be spending time off the books running back and forth to the hardware store..


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Well let me put my view on this sore subject.... Side jobs are going to come along,it will hapopen!!, and as you grow with this trade ask yourself "if I owed this company would I be alright knowing one of my employees was doing work on the side"?? Also it draws attention to material being used. You open the doors to being dismissed from your present employment and is it worth it in the long run??

When I was employed by someone I gave everything I had and helped them grow their business and did no side jobs. I always treat others as I would want to be treated, although I have been taken by some in the past 19 years, I try to not let them get me down as I know "What comes around, Goes around".
I have lived though this experience in 05 and must say it was a living hell.. Side jobs are off limits here in my company.. If you want to do side work, Get A License, Own Your Own Business and Experience every Thing It Has To Offer...


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## HandsomeMike (Feb 8, 2009)

Jjbex and protech said it. I would never do side work, not just because I am an apprentice or the hall says no, just because for nothing else you really are just killing yourself and your brother. Our hall has more than one quarter unemployment and I know guys that are working that are doing side work. I won't have anything to do with it. I am laid off and a ladie with thirty-one rental properties approached me. Yeah, I was tempted for a second, thought about this Christmas and stuff. Thought about guys I knew who were losing their homes, but I couldn't let myself kick it their way either. The ladie won't even probably get a licensed plumber. If I know about a guy doing it I won't turn him in, but I ain't doing it. I could be making two grand a week putting in irrigation systems on the side, but it's too close to my field. Even if I got a plumber to do the tap. Don't get me started on the liability. I don't crap where I eat.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Like I always say everything is situational. For the most part plumbers doing side jobs is wrong for the various reasons stated in this thread. I would however venture a guess that a large portion of business owning plumbers, that didn't inherit a family business, got there start doing side jobs (myself included). I was licensed, I only did small service jobs which didn't interfere with my employers work (new const. only), used my OWN material, my own vehicle. The only risk I was taking is I wasn't yet insured. I know this was potentially a huge risk, though I only worked for family, friends, neighbors, all of which are less likely to sue, in the unlikely event of something going wrong. I know it still could have happened, but fortunately it didn't. Being in business is a substansial risk in itself, I took a risk and it worked out for me. 

The point I'm trying to make is, in most situations doing side work is a bad idea, however IF the situation is right, I for one can understand.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> side jobs are grounds for dismissal. (Only exception, working for family)


Some people have big families . . .


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## tnoisaw (Jun 16, 2009)

I have a large side job coming up. I will be replacing all the flooring in a house. I am not thrilled about doing it because of the time it will take away from my family but it's for my family that I have to do it. 

Being in the Daytona area I am taking advantage of by my lack ofwages in relation to experiance and skills. I have four people to feed and house so a side job is much needed and the risk of being caught are nessisary.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

When I wrote about side jobs I was referring to plumbing side jobs. If an employee wants a second career, I fully support a man trying to do the best for himself and his family. :thumbsup:

Good luck on the flooring job.


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## IPLUMB (Jul 15, 2009)

I Dont Allow It, When I Was Employed, I Would Give People A Price For The Company To Do A Job , Then They Would Ask Me To Do It Myself And I Would Tell Them What Makes You Think I Will Be Doing It For Less


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

When I worked for a company I did side jobs and i made alot of money. One of the owners didn't like it and had somthing smart to say to me at the supply house......Then another owner of a plumbing business spoke up and said...."yeah you should fire him....so I can hire him" That was the end of that conversation. Talented repair plumbers are difficult to find and keep,the not so talented are a dime a dozen. I would purchase my materials from the supply house that I used on side jobs and keep the receipt if any question came up as to where I was getting materials for the side jobs. I never missed a day of work. If you fire a good plumber your competition will hire him......and with that hire comes all the knowledge of how you do business. If you think plumbers are cut throat......wait until you meet the Plumber/owner with too much work,looking to fill a van and his bank account. The above is my experience and my opinion. Have a nice day!!!:whistling2:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Just make sure that you don't do a side job that requires a permit. That would be a felony if you are not licensed.

Laying a floor is pretty "safe". I don't see much chance of property damage there but that HO is still taking a risk.




tnoisaw said:


> I have a large side job coming up. I will be replacing all the flooring in a house. I am not thrilled about doing it because of the time it will take away from my family but it's for my family that I have to do it.
> 
> Being in the Daytona area I am taking advantage of by my lack ofwages in relation to experiance and skills. I have four people to feed and house so a side job is much needed and the risk of being caught are nessisary.


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## albplumber1975 (Jun 20, 2009)

as for firing people for doing side jobs..I think that is just wrong and very selfish. What someone does in their own time is their own business. As long as it does not use company materials or tools then there is no problem. But to fire someone because they did a job for a friend/family/neighbour/themselves I my humble opinon that is just wrong.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Doing jobs for friends and family isn't the big problem. Most guys that do a good amount of side jobs look for the work. If you're working for somebody and actively looking for side work, I can see getting fired.







Paul


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

waynewright34 said:


> as for firing people for doing side jobs..I think that is just wrong and very selfish. What someone does in their own time is their own business. As long as it does not use company materials or tools then there is no problem. But to fire someone because they did a job for a friend/family/neighbour/themselves I my humble opinon that is just wrong.


When you agree to work for a company with a 'no side job' policy in place, you are agreeing to the terms of employment. If you don't agree with the policy, don't accept the position.

As a Plumbing Contractor we compete for business everyday. Our competitors are the following:

other plumbing companies
Lowes / Home Depot / Sears installers
Maintenance companies (Andy on Call, Odd Jobs etc.)
Unemployed plumbers
Plumbers doing side work
Handyman / Hacks

All of the above are competing for the same customers. Why on earth would I want to hire a competitor? I have seen it posted here numerous times, a plumber is frustrated in his current situation and uses his spare time to build a customer base so he can strike out on his own. Often, these same plumbers will try to take customer accounts from their employers. 

From a business standpoint, I feel it is a conflict of interest. If someone needs extra money beyond what we are paying him, I believe his ethics could be compromised and I am not willing to take that risk. When the plumber who loves to do side jobs is confronted with the HO who says, '$$$ is too much money, can you do it on the side for less?' I don't want to be wondering what he might say.

The correct answer would be "I work for a Professional Plumbing Company that pays me a good wage to offer the best service and quality to *their customers*. Their prices are more than reasonable. Of course I could do it for less, but then you would have never found me. That Yellow Page ad my employer pays for makes it easier for you to find a reputable plumber. They carry insurance to protect you, the homeowner. I cannot offer you what a Professional Plumbing Company can offer you."

It's ironic that employees who look out only for themselves would expect the company that they work for to look out for them first too. 

Loyalty has to be a two way street or someone is always getting the raw end of the deal.

As for TM - neither your previous employer or his competitor got a good plumber out of the deal for long. You are on your own.

I prefer to invest in plumbers who want a long career with our company and we have chosen to invest in plumbers who want the same thing.


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

I do side jobs for close friends, and family only, and even then I try not to do them. 

But I am NOT a fan of side jobs, personally. I don't like the potential liability should something happen, and I don't go to work everyday to come home and do side jobs, I work to play. 

The one side job I will absolutely not touch are gas side jobs. Absolutely will not do any side work that involves gas. I cringe thinking of certain supply houses that may sell gas fired appliances/parts to people who shouldn't be getting them. Hell I can't stand how many guys who get gas tickets haven't even done a lick of gas in their lives yet are certified to work on it. It's not that I don't have confidence in my gas work, it's the principle behind what could happen if something went wrong, which is why you have insurance, which you don't doing gas side jobs.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I still do side jobs and i own the business!!!! So we have an open policy! I enjoy crushing my competition with my low overhead. As a young plumber around 20 yrs old and licensed I would do side jobs everyday.....making anywhere between 50 and 60.00 on each one. I continued working for my employer for about 14 years and continued doing side jobs. We never had an issue. The main reason why we didn't have an issue is because my employer was making big money and had the best repair plumbers in the city and HE WAS VERY AWARE OF THAT. Instead of giving us raises and cutting his profit he allowed us to do all the side jobs we wanted......and he got rich and retired... and everybody lived happily ever after. I say do all the side jobs you can do aslong as your not breaking any laws........its your right to do that...and its your employers right to terminate you if he pleases.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> When you agree to work for a company with a 'no side job' policy in place, you are agreeing to the terms of employment. If you don't agree with the policy, don't accept the position.
> 
> As a Plumbing Contractor we compete for business everyday. Our competitors are the following:
> 
> ...


 
Rock on Sister!!! :thumbup:


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## IPLUMB (Jul 15, 2009)

I Dont Consider Family, Or Friends, Work Side Jobs. So Long As You Dont Use Company Material, Tools,etc. A Side Job Is A Customer Calling Out Your Company For A Quote And Trying To Get You The Plumber To Do The Work At A Cheaper Coast. My Response Was If You Cant Afford The Company Whom I Work With What Makes You Think I Will Do It Any Cheaper.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

When I ran my company I did not care about employees doing side work. As long as it was not one of my bids, or customers, or my tools.


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## Jiffy (May 24, 2009)

Well I'm new here but gonna stick my neck out anyway...just hope this is a place where we can have different opinions and still co-exist...or will I be flamed at the stake???

I can't imagine that any plumber here has never done a side job period. 

You didn't always own your own business. 

If a neighbor or family member or friend calls on me for help I for damn sure will help them. 

What I will not do is work for people I've come in contact with through my employers company. I will not use my bosses tools, trucks or supplies.


A few passionate post caught my attention so I am going to put my spin on them and play a bit of the devils advocate here (nothing personal):


PlumbCrazy said:


> Not all bosses are like that. My husband is working all day today for our plumber (he's building his own home) for nothing. They are running all the water lines, temp is going to be record high, no A/C. Why is he working for free on his day off? Our plumber would do the same for us.


So your company's insurance is standing behind this job too? If there is damage do to leak or the house blows from a gas leak is your company insurance covering this? 

If the job is off the books then you are doing a side job...its a favor for a friend (who happens to be an employee).



PlumbCrazy said:


> When I wrote about side jobs I was referring to plumbing side jobs. If an employee wants a second career, I fully support a man trying to do the best for himself and his family. :thumbsup:
> 
> Good luck on the flooring job.


So being a hack, or a scab is ok. You can steal from other trades and work as an unlicensed contractor but just not YOUR trade?



PlumbCrazy said:


> When you agree to work for a company with a 'no side job' policy in place, you are agreeing to the terms of employment. If you don't agree with the policy, don't accept the position.
> 
> As a Plumbing Contractor we compete for business everyday. Our competitors are the following:
> 
> ...


I gotta take TM's point of view on this. It happens period. If your betting that your employees have never done a single solitary side job I'd take that bet all day long. 

I think you make yourself valuable as TM stated and you can still be an asset to your boss and work for friends and family, and friends of friends, for that matter.

In my case I pursueded my boss six years ago to focus more on residential service calls. He had been doing mainly construction type plumbing (new and remodels), with occasional service calls. I was persistent to expand his non existent advertising campaign, I introduced drain cleaning and 24 hour emergency service. 

Today all those builders he used to rely on aren't doing anything. If we hadn't become multi-dimensional six years ago we wouldn't be here now. 

My point is that I did all this to expand my employers company, I am a company man AND I still do side jobs on occasion...imagine that! 

I may even start my own company down the road some day, but I will have left my current employer better off than when I got there and my conscience is clear.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

I can agree with many of your points, however many employees do not see the issue with steal customers from employers. Take my customers, your gone.
Drop your own business cards at jobs, gone.
Tell customers you can do it cheaper off the books, gone.
Advertise a business, anywhere, any way, gone.

I allow small side jobs for friends and family, I supply parts at cost.
I just had a man quit and ask for a "lay-off" designation on his unemployment forms. I caught wind that he was opening his own business using unemployment monies.

His seperation slip read, Quit, please call for details. I run an hinest shop, I will help you out if I can, but to ask for help to compete with me? Nope.

He is going to my commercial maintanance customers everyday telling them that he can work cheaper. Guess so without Insurance, Compensation coverage, a shop, a stocked van, upgrading, etc etc etc. Kinda hard to make any money when the guaranteed 40 hours a week I provided no longer happen.

In short, side jobs for friends and family I support, anything else? Piss off, your fired, friends of friends included.


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## Jiffy (May 24, 2009)

uaplumber said:


> I can agree with many of your points, however many employees do not see the issue with steal customers from employers. Take my customers, your gone.
> Drop your own business cards at jobs, gone.
> Tell customers you can do it cheaper off the books, gone.
> Advertise a business, anywhere, any way, gone.


Totally Agree





uaplumber said:


> He is going to my commercial maintanance customers everyday telling them that he can work cheaper. Guess so without Insurance, Compensation coverage, a shop, a stocked van, upgrading, etc etc etc. Kinda hard to make any money when the guaranteed 40 hours a week I provided no longer happen.


That's all you can do is make your customers aware of his lack of professionalism (insurance, etc.) So they can make an informed decision with ALL the facts.

I've been around for a while and have seen on many occasions where a guys got so much side work that his day job is just plain interfering...but when they quit and dedicate all their time to that work it dries up pretty damn quick...LOL hmmm...imagine that!


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

"That's all you can do is make your customers aware of his lack of professionalism (insurance, etc.) So they can make an informed decision with ALL the facts."

That's one of the problems with siders. They are stealing business from legit contractors, the fact that you aren't stealing from your boss, just means you are stealing from someone else. Why should the legit guys have to expose yet another thief?


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> Well I'm new here but gonna stick my neck out anyway...just hope this is a place where we can have different opinions and still co-exist...or will I be flamed at the stake???


That is what this forum is all about. A place to exchange ideas and offer different point of views. This is how we all learn. Since you quoted my post, I will defend my position. In the end we can agree to disagree on this issue knowing full well that we will agree on other things. :thumbsup:



> I can't imagine that any plumber here has never done a side job period. You didn't always own your own business. If a neighbor or family member or friend calls on me for help I for damn sure will help them.


I'd venture to say that every plumber has done a side job at one time or another. This does not make it right. When you know better, you do better. It is a fact that side jobs are done cheaper than hiring a professional plumbing company, that's why people hire a plumber on the side in the first place. This devalues the perceived value of plumbing IMHO.



> What I will not do is work for people I've come in contact with through my employers company. I will not use my bosses tools, trucks or supplies.


:thumbup: 



> So your company's insurance is standing behind this job too? If there is damage do to leak or the house blows from a gas leak is your company insurance covering this?
> 
> If the job is off the books then you are doing a side job...its a favor for a friend (who happens to be an employee).


Our company has nothing to do with this job, so our insurance is not standing behind this job in any way, shape or form. There is no gas and our plumber is his own contractor. This is not a side job. He is a plumber, therefore, he is not taking money away from any company. We are merely helping a friend. Instead of taking two days for him to run the water pipe by himself, he is able to do it in one day with help.



> So being a hack, or a scab is ok. You can steal from other trades and work as an unlicensed contractor but just not YOUR trade?


As far as I know, you do not need to be licensed to do flooring work in our state. I was merely referring to any parttime job a plumber would do in his spare time. My father was a fire fighter and they all had second careers. So, a plumber who had a second job is not necessarily a hack or scab stealing from other trades. But, let's assume as you assumed and that he is stealing from other trades - that is not any of my business as his/her employer with the exception of illegal activity. That would be my business and would be grounds for dismissal as well.



> In my case I pursueded my boss six years ago to focus more on residential service calls. He had been doing mainly construction type plumbing (new and remodels), with occasional service calls. I was persistent to expand his non existent advertising campaign, I introduced drain cleaning and 24 hour emergency service. . . My point is that I did all this to expand my employers company, I am a company man AND I still do side jobs on occasion...imagine that!


My friend, you are the exception. :thumbup: Very rare to find company oriented employees in this day and age.

One point I will disagree With TM is that you wouldn't risk losing an employee to the competition for fear of him sharing your info. with the competition. We do not operate out of fear. If this was the case, you would never be able to fire any employee for any reason. This is a risk you take anytime you trust your employee with information. 

I already know I like you! You stated your case well, but I still happen to disagree. It all boils down to minimizing risk for our company.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

If your company trucks are on the job.......your insurance would pay. Freebie or not!!!!!! For an Employee or anyone else......if those trucks are there and theres plumbing work being installed......your company is doing it wehter your getting paid or not....if you took out a permit or not. Give the ol' insurance company a call and ask them. I already have called mine and they said the above!


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

The only way too completely stop employee sidejobbing for 100% certainty is to have no employees. Then you don't have to worry about it. If you are going to have employees and be a larger shop, then it is a factor that has to be dealt with somehow. A sidejob policy should be clearly described and enforced by every employer when they hire an employee.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> If your company trucks are on the job.......your insurance would pay. Freebie or not!!!!!! For an Employee or anyone else......if those trucks are there and theres plumbing work being installed......your company is doing it wehter your getting paid or not....if you took out a permit or not. Give the ol' insurance company a call and ask them. I already have called mine and they said the above!


Our insurance would pay what? 

No company materials were being used, nor were any company owned tools. Nor is any money changing hands. We did not pull a permit. The HO (our plumber) pulled his own permit which is allowable in this county when you are building your own residence.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Our insurance would pay what?
> 
> No company materials were being used, nor were any company owned tools. Nor is any money changing hands. We did not pull a permit. The HO (our plumber) pulled his own permit which is allowable in this county when you are building your own residence.


 If your trucks are on the job and you own the compnay and you do somthing for free like help a "friend" plumb his house.....and your work floods that house......your insurance would pay for any damages from the result. Money does not have to change hands....think if you do a job for free that your not responsible for that work? Nothing but the truck and the owner has to be present....if he's in that truck then he's representing that compnay...PERIOD. Just like if you let an employee drive the vans home and they kill sombody going to get groceries and its their fault...YOU insurance would pay. Dont take my word for it consult sombody. It all comes back to what the friend "SAYS" the deal was.......not what the deal was in reality.....let that mans house flood and cause 40 grand in damage and see whos fault it will be and whos a friend and whos an employee.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> If your trucks are on the job and you own the compnay and you do somthing for free like help a "friend" plumb his house.....and your work floods that house......your insurance would pay for any damages from the result. Money does not have to change hands....think if you do a job for free that your not responsible for that work? Nothing but the truck and the owner has to be present....if he's in that truck then he's representing that compnay...PERIOD. Just like if you let an employee drive the vans home and they kill sombody going to get groceries and its their fault...YOU insurance would pay. Dont take my word for it consult sombody. It all comes back to what the friend "SAYS" the deal was.......not what the deal was in reality.....let that mans house flood and cause 40 grand in damage and see whos fault it will be and whos a friend and whos an employee.


They went over this in our continuing education about vehicle liability. I do have a question. You are up on legal stuff more than me and one of the instructors who does abitration said in his opinion where there is no contract there is no liability. Im not sure on this . I think the reference was if a customer didnt pay and voided the contract or a contractor terminated the contract midstream and another plumber came in and finished.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Yes on if our company did the work under any circustance our insurance would cover it--however if the side job was illegal and not authorized I think the insurance company can fight it, or go after the employee etc.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Also,(one last thing)...We finished a house, had water on for 2 weeks, they had a parade of homes , someone flushed and stufed and walked away and the house ran water overflowing for a weekend out the front door. My insurance co. came in and said it wasnt my fault and wouldnt pay. We rodded the drain and found a 1" square piece of construction debris, that was determined would not have caused the problem. The contractor had not switched insurances yet and only had builders risk and was short 20grand. I begged my insurance company to help and they kicked in 6000 in good nature.Iwas doing over 400k with the guy and today I dont think anyone on their side believes it wasnt my fault.


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

Hmmm... side jobs. Our company does not support the picking up of side jobs 100%.
However there are situations that do arise (ex: my apprentices parents' house has roots in the sewer, I know this for a fact.)

If you as a homeowner contact an 'unlicensed' person to do a job that requires a license, you get what you are asking for. We have all heard the "well my son came over and tried to fix it for me last week".

We had an instance that an employee of ours did a 'side job' for a guy. The supply tube on the commode blew and flooded the bathroom. There was no *paid receipt* reading 'OUR PLUMBING COMPANY' nor was there a *cancelled check* written to 'OUR PLUMBING COMPANY'. The work was done without our knowledge and therefore we were found 'NOT AT FAULT'. For one to prove that the work one did was the cause of the problem there was have to be 'proof' *(ie: paid receipt, cancelled check, work order, picture of plumber doing work, itemized statement, etc.)*

Disagree on a few of the statements made and had to throw in my two cents!

 WOW!! I AM UP LATE TONIGHT!


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

If side jobs are done on a level playing field, then I have no problem with them. Meaning, if you have general liability insurance, a business license, file a dba or some type of corporate tax return, carry workers compensation insurance, are a licensed professional in good standing for the type of work required (if any) then go for it. If not, then you're cheating the system.

We are a nation governed by laws. We don't have to agree with them, but we do have to follow them. The reality of the matter is, no amount of hardship justifies breaking the law. Its still a violation.

Saying that you have a 'right' to do side work is ridiculous. Where is that right granted? Its not a right, its not a privilege, its a behavior that is irresponsible and potentially ruinous. 

Yes, a person has a right to work, but saying that side work by employees is a victimless crime and should be allowed is wishful thinking. 

The facts are simple. If you're not authorized by all local and state government organizations to do the work, then you're breaking the law and subjecting yourself and possibly others to penalties.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Double-A said:


> If side jobs are done on a level playing field, then I have no problem with them. Meaning, if you have general liability insurance, a business license, file a dba or some type of corporate tax return, carry workers compensation insurance, are a licensed professional in good standing for the type of work required (if any) then go for it. If not, then you're cheating the system.
> 
> We are a nation governed by laws. We don't have to agree with them, but we do have to follow them. The reality of the matter is, no amount of hardship justifies breaking the law. Its still a violation.
> 
> ...


Do you ever exceed the posted speed limit ??? If you do which 99.9% of people do at some time or another whats your excuse for that? Wouldn't that be breaking the law and also be putting people at risk? I think we all should be alittle less self righteous.:laughing:
...............................................................................................................................................................................
Self-righteousness (also called sententiousness) is a feeling of smug moral superiority derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person.


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

I think that us feeling a bit less self righteous was my whole point. Self entitlement, the world owes me whatever I can take and get away with... horse hockey! That's just another way of saying I ain't gonna respect what others do for me. 

As for a plumber willing to snap up a 'side worker' at the drop of a hat - He's getting the best he's willing to pay for and to work to recruit. More power to both of them, I say. 

Da law is da law, like it or not. Respect it, and supposedly it will respect you. Abuse it and get caught? Time to pay the piper. Its your nickel, you call the tune. I'm just pointing out that some tunes are nicer to dance to. 

If you don't like it, change the law. You're a registered voter, right? So what's the problem?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Side jobs are illegal in some states. They are the wrong thing to do in all states. There is a difference between helping a friend/family member for free, and a side job.


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