# You Must Unlearn What You Have Learned...



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Ok so sorry for the teaser thread title but it goes really well with what I would like to talk about, which is tankless water heaters. Here's the situation:

Builder calls us says H/O complains they run out of hot water. They have a State tankless nat gas unit outside with control pad inside home. Temp set to 120*F. I open shower valve to full hot, run it for 20 minutes, unit stays on, bathroom steams up from all the glorious hot water. 
I explain to the builder that the unit is working fine, it is user error. He asks how so? I explain that the tankless requires three things to turn on and stay on, electricity, gas and water flow. I explain that I believe the hot water is set too high for H/O's comfort level and they are trying to lower temp of water by using the handle on the shower. This lowers water flow through tankless which eventually kills the burner and therefore the water goes cold. Now mind you this is an older gentleman who does not believe in newfangled contraptions like tankless water heaters, and insists I change out cartridge to shower valve. 
I quoted him from the Grand Master Plumber Yoda that they "must unlearn what they have learned" in regards to operating their hot water taps. Gone is the day of a storage tank with 50 gallons of heated water just sitting waiting to be used. Now, they have on demand hot water which means they must adjust temp at the controller, not at the faucet, in order for the unit to work as intended. Too bad they installed the controller in a closet underneath the stairs(dumb). Now I found the controller to be bad so I'll replace that but it's been fun explaining to H/O's they have to change the way they use their hot water which means discarding habits they've used for decades. Some pics...









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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

We recommend against tankless. Most people don't want to deal with the maintenance and when we tell them about flow rate, it's conventional or powervent. 

Your title makes me think of when I actually worked for a Master plumber, my old boss. I now work for his previous Master. He told me "You know what you're doing, but I need to un **** your way of plumbing!"

His, and my current Master is far better than him. I'm grateful for my experience working under such good plumbers vs where I started in the trade.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

I'm waiting for one our customers to get fed up so I can bring home a free tankless. I try to educate folks on the upgrades bc they can have problems since home was not designed with tankless in mind. New construction is better esp since design accommodates for it. You are right about maintenance and I have seen more problems when they are not maintained 

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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Years ago I did work for this stoner dude and we was asking about my license and told him how I had started at apprentice then made my way to journeyman working on master. He goes, so you're like a Jedi huh? Stuck with me ever since especially bc I love Star Wars.
Apprentice = Padawan
Journeyman = Jedi Knight
Master = Master Jedi
Sith Lords = Electricians


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Wookiee= carpenter?


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

OpenSights said:


> Wookiee= carpenter?


I'll go with that! I've never had a run in with one like electricians

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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

If we talk about elections we step away from Star Wars and into Alien.

xenomorph= election


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I wouldn't insult a sith like that.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

You're auto correct confused me. I can see electricians = xenomorph 


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Xenomorph, from the Alien series. Acid for blood...


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

On second thought, I've met three electricians that are good guys, so my previous statement is not all inclusive. All three ask what bays to stay clear of prior to the start of the job.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

When I ran Plumbing shop in L.A. my senior Partner was a Master Electrician
He paid the upfront cost to get started including the price of taking the test,
and toke care of the business end


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

In fairness I've met plumbers I wouldn't trust with a tape measure. I met at least two electricians in my time that were cool guys. Doesn't mean I'll stop ribbing them tho!

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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> When I ran Plumbing shop in L.A. my senior Partner was a Master Electrician
> He paid the upfront cost to get started including the price of taking the test,
> and toke care of the business end


sometimes we would do nite calls together and if the customer paid cash we
would spit the money, he would write a invoice then void the shop copy
we did this because we both got salary's where our wife's made more money then we did, ALL shop expenses including wages had to be paid every week 
then we got our checks, IF there was money left


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Barter is my favorite form of payment. 

I cabled a kitchen drain in exchange for 500 custom designed business cards and 1k of custom invoices. I did pay $114 for the materials.

Putting a full bath in a poll barn for a dewalt jackhammer and an extra spartan 100. Materials provided. 

For a one man shop I'm up to two 300's and four 100's. Not to mention more spare parts than I could ever need.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Here is why we can't have nice things. 2 Naviens not installed properly, in cascade mode without proper settings, dip switches not configured properly.
Homeowner convinced Navien to have units replaced after 3 years. I did not get a pic of new units installed. But you get the picture









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