# Collecting on permit fees and never following through (Lowes, Home Depot)



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

In my area, widespread abuse where a customer had a water heater installed by a contractor representing home depot or lowes, the customer is always charged a permit fee and then the water heater never gets inspected.


I've done work "after" the fact for customers that chose to go through a contracted sale at these locations merely because they could put it on their card, call it done. Basically finance the replacement since a plumber won't usually do both sides of the equation.


"Well, I paid for that inspection!" 


And I'm standing there, in front of the water heater looking at 2-7 code violations that no way in hell it was inspected by the state.


So then I ask them to pursue their loss of anticipated value of what they spent, months/years ago.

They already know there are code violations, otherwise the discussion wouldn't even be brought up.

Then they realize that this is probably going to be a lost cause, can't find the receipt, going to have to haggle with the big box store, someone is going to say, "We don't have any record of this transaction" and like magic, the issue will drop with the big box store and their claim of "extra" money is had.

When I called this out to the state of KY 2 years ago...their attitude is, "Why do you care?"


I'll tell you why I F**KING CARE,

You keep raising my permit fees, the annual cost of my license, watching unlicensed roll by without dealing with any of the bull**** politics you force us legit plumbers to be.

And just because the supplier of income (water heater provider) keeps this industry going, you're going to free pass them for knowingly collecting on a fee that dedicated for funding that is designed to pay the salaries of the plumbing inspectors? 

It's more of the big machine doing what it wants, we as plumbers don't have that blazen, often ignored responsibility to uphold.

That system unfortunately will stay broke for a long time to come.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

In this area, WH permit is often done by remote control so to speak, and the city sends the homeowner a postcard, about 2 weeks after the job, to call for an inspection. The plumber is long gone, but if something fails they have to call him back.

I have heard that the city may be lax in follow up on the open permits, if the HO fails to call for the inspection.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I can see the control, on a city level a far better design than ever pulling it from a state level. I'm sure at that level that things are done on a priority levle and that being on the lower of the scale.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

In my area of Northeast Indiana(at least 4 counties) it is a requirement to pull a permit for a water heater, but do to timing and the logistics, nobody pulls permits, and the building authorities, do not bother trying to enforce it.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Indie said:


> In my area of Northeast Indiana(at least 4 counties) it is a requirement to pull a permit for a water heater, but do to timing and the logistics, nobody pulls permits, and the building authorities, do not bother trying to enforce it.


Same situation here, the only time I pull a permit is for repipes or gas lines, or mainline change outs.


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## DownHill (Oct 15, 2010)

They've eliminated it here on exact changeout. Not sure on there definition of that yet. 

Delta Mechanical got there azz lit up here on non permits from HD if I recall right. 

I have to say, with the aggravation of the permits & inspections here, and the non-enforcement of the hacks....I'm kind of glad they are getting rid of it. 

Why? War story....

I had an electric heater in a closet that was a leaker. Now the energy code require more efficiency on heaters awhile back. Mfgs. just increased insulation & some backed the thermostat down a little in my opinion. So, in short we've seen some heaters get a little thicker and taller. 

Our Code at the time required a 1" clearance around the jacket of any water heater. So while I could get a tall version in the exact same place, it would not pass code with an inspection. Nowhere in the house to move it either. Old house, no closet space. No crawlspace a lowboy would go in. Can't remember about the attic, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't an option.

Talked to the inspector. He says I have to put a gas one in an outside hut. No NG there. So this nut job wants me to pull a plumbing permit, a separate gas permit, rough-in, test, get an inspection, call the gas company to run a gas line & release a meter, put in the hut and heater, get a final, then put it into operation. Meanwhile the people living there have no hot water for a minimum of 3 days. (It would be longer with the gas company and all). All this over 1/2" from the jacket of the water heater to the drywall. 

The head of inspections backs him up and the head of code interpretation for the state. I called. 

And _technically_, by code, he's right. 

That's why some of these "gotcha's!" in the technicalities of the code can be a little nuts. 

P.S. they got their hot water back in about 2 hours. :yes:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*according to my inspectors....*

they let it slide here too, and according to the latest inspector I talked to, they claim the only time you need a permit is when you increase the size of the heater or go from an electirc to gas....

its a total joke here , 

any hillbilley can go to lowes and install one in their homes themselves.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------.


*Dunbar...*you could always go about this another way.....instead of crying to the local inspectors....
most inspectors are sissies and wimps anyway and wont do anything to jepordize their crappy little jobs...
...
*file a complaint with your local consumer protection agencey* 

*Just Have a water heater put in your own home or a freinds home by HD* and see
if they actually pay for a permit...and do the work correctly
.. then you would have them by the balls....:laughing::yes:......

if you can prove that home depot collected 50 bucks for an inspection fee from you and never paid the fee to the local jurisdiction , I think they could force them to re-pay all the poor consumers that fee.... get an investigation going for 5 years back... 
.:yes::yes:

now that would chap their asses to be implicated in a consumer rip off 
scam like that.....where did that 50 bucks go???
especially with you in the middle of it smearing their name all over U-tube 

also turn this into some local TV station to go ask HD what is going down.....:laughing::laughing:....

good times, good times...... 

and think of all the publicity....:thumbup::thumbup:.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I don't waste my time.

This subject is merely for notification on a global reach that it exists.

That's why a builder can trample over its contractors and local government will do little or nothing to stop it. 

A home/structure produces a long, ongoing tax structure that will last many decades. 

A contractor? Short term at best. One is of the higher constant.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> they let it slide here too, and according to the latest inspector I talked to, they claim the only time you need a permit is when you increase the size of the heater or go from an electirc to gas....
> 
> its a total joke here ,
> 
> ...


That's right. Here the HD, Blowes, or electric company only pay $125 for a WH install, with them providing the electric WH only. If you pull a permit you'll pay between $10 and $50 depending on the city. That leaves only $75 for a pan, flex lines, possibly a valve, and any profit. They don't require proof of a lic., just proof of GL insurance. 
The last WH I changed out was a 40 gal LP that the final ticket was about $1000. That included a new gas valve, a new gas flex, installing a new 3/4 copper feed line of 6', new valve, and new WH flex lines.


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