# GE nat gas water heater (same as Rheem)



## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

ah, so one of our other plumbers got a call to go fix a GE water heater, about 8 years old, that made a loud noise then shut off. I've never worked on one, but after talking to him on the phone, figured out it was a FVIR tank. Symptoms were, pilot would light, main burner comes on for a few seconds, then the whole thing shuts down. I have to say right now this is a Home Depot sold water heater. Anyway, knowing how AO Smith, Reliance, BW's, Whirlpools, work, I know there must be a safety. Other tech insists no extra wires, no bulb on the thermocouple, no limit switch, nothing. So, I tell him I'mm come look. Well, inside the combustion area, there is a plunger, that is spring loaded. Some thermo device failed, and this spring loaded plunger closes all inlet air to the combustion area. No air, no fire. I called the 800 number today, and, they are sending me a ONE TIME replacement of the combustion air safety shutoff mechanism. This has to be the dumbest setup in the world. I know I can just jam it open, but the whole liability thing. The people on the phone told me this is caused by an external source: Blocked vent, blocked air inlet, combustible vapors. We will make quadruple sure vent is clear. Air inlets were clean. Nobody was spray painting. My advice, don't sell, service, or install GE or Rheem water heaters.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f25/inside-rheem-fvir-burner-chamber-18949/


I take a compressor and blow out the FVIR filter from inside the burner chamber as well as vacuum it out from below. I spent a good 15 minutes going back and forth between the compressor and vacuum on the last one of these I did. I wanted to make sure I could get the filter as clean as possible before firing it back up and so far, it's been fine. This was in a garage where the dryer vent wasn't run outside and they had a cat or two. I was certain it would pop the new vial but I think I cleaned it pretty well and I convinced the customer to run the dryer vent outside. 








Paul


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

In all honesty, I've been installing Rheem for years and I've never had a call back or issue with the FVIR set-up. I've put them in attics laundry rooms and closets...I wonder all the time why I have zero issues.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

GE, Rheem/Ruud, yet another plumbing mfger that HD has dominated.

GE W/H's W/Ruud tanks are manufactured for HD only, same with Rheem tankless.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Titan Plumbing said:


> In all honesty, I've been installing Rheem for years and I've never had a call back or issue with the FVIR set-up. I've put them in attics laundry rooms and closets...I wonder all the time why I have zero issues.


 
That's how I feel when I hear guys slamming A.O. Smith. I've installed them exclusively for 13 years and haven't had any real issues with them.






Paul


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> That's how I feel when I hear guys slamming A.O. Smith. I've installed them exclusively for 13 years and haven't had any real issues with them.
> 
> Paul


The same could be said of many major faucet/valve manufacturers until HD cornered the supply market and got them to shave costs & use cheaper plastic parts.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

rocksteady said:


> That's how I feel when I hear guys slamming A.O. Smith. I've installed them exclusively for 13 years and haven't had any real issues with them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny thing is, it doesn't matter which brand I install...No issues. I install BW and Rheem, I don't trade with the supply house that sells AO Smith, or else I would install them as well.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

ah, you guys don't get it. There is this spring loaded plunger, that has a little either glas tube or bimetal pin that when it exceeds 350-375 degrees, it fails, and, this spring loaded plunger pulls up and totally blocks the air inlet. That's Rheem and GE's solution to shutting down the tank in an FVIR event. Its all mechanical. You can blow all the air you want, but, if that thing trips, you'll never light it up. Look it up. At least everyone else in the world of water heaters has a resetable situation. Rheem/GE does not. Anyway, the parts come tomorrow, I'm sure there will be some instructions, I'll post them up.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> In all honesty, I've been installing Rheem for years and I've never had a call back or issue with the FVIR set-up. I've put them in attics laundry rooms and closets...I wonder all the time why I have zero issues.


 yeah, but, can you fix one when they do? Did you even know about this feature? Something tells me, no, you didn't. Live and learn, my friend.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

MikeS said:


> ah, you guys don't get it. There is this spring loaded plunger, that has a little either glas tube or bimetal pin that when it exceeds 350-375 degrees, it fails, and, this spring loaded plunger pulls up and totally blocks the air inlet. That's Rheem and GE's solution to shutting down the tank in an FVIR event. Its all mechanical. You can blow all the air you want, but, if that thing trips, you'll never light it up. Look it up. At least everyone else in the world of water heaters has a resetable situation. Rheem/GE does not. Anyway, the parts come tomorrow, I'm sure there will be some instructions, I'll post them up.


Like Kenmore heaters with their own parts and special sizes, the MFGer wants to have it's own techs do the job vs us.

Same thing with auto dealerships vs small shop owners, they know there's money in service and they want it, so they use odd sizes & parts or require special tools and instruments.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

GrumpyPlumber said:


> Like Kenmore heaters with their own parts and special sizes, the MFGer wants to have it's own techs do the job vs us.
> 
> Same thing with auto dealerships vs small shop owners, they know there's money in service and they want it, so they use odd size that require special tools and instruments.


no, it has nothing to do with that. Its a pretty simple solution. I made a phone call, they told me it has to be an external problem, they would give me the parts THIS ONE TIME, and, it had to be a licensed plumber that installed them. This water heater is 2 years OUT of warranty. They ship FEDEX next day to the customer. AT NO COST. Which to me means, they know they have an f'd up water heater.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

MikeS said:


> yeah, but, can you fix one when they do? Did you even know about this feature? Something tells me, no, you didn't. Live and learn, my friend.


Well, there is no reason to be all high and mighty. I happen to be able to read and have been following the thread that was mentioned earlier. So to answer your question, yes and yes.

I'm not saying anything about your situation, just stating my experience and how unusual it is that in 12 yrs of business I've not had over 3 callbacks/issues with the heaters I've installed.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Well, there is no reason to be all high and mighty. I happen to be able to read and have been following the thread that was mentioned earlier. So to answer your question, yes and yes.
> 
> I'm not saying anything about your situation, just stating my experience and how unusual it is that in 12 yrs of business I've not had over 3 callbacks/issues with the heaters I've installed.


 
dude, its real simple. If you have fixed one of these, you'd be all, yeah, I fixed one, here is what you do. But its obvious you haven't, because all these failures are going to start coming now. Telling me you have installed numerous GE's and Rheems with no problems doesn't help me. It doesn't help anyone. When you do go on that call where one of these fails, you'll thank me for bringing it up.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

MikeS said:


> dude, its real simple. If you have fixed one of these, you'd be all, yeah, I fixed one, here is what you do. But its obvious you haven't, because all these failures are going to start coming now. Telling me you have installed numerous GE's and Rheems with no problems doesn't help me. It doesn't help anyone. When you do go on that call where one of these fails, you'll thank me for bringing it up.


Okay Dude, duly noted. I put your info in the notes on my iPhone.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

MikeS said:


> no, it has nothing to do with that. Its a pretty simple solution. I made a phone call, they told me it has to be an external problem, they would give me the parts THIS ONE TIME, and, it had to be a licensed plumber that installed them. This water heater is 2 years OUT of warranty. They ship FEDEX next day to the customer. AT NO COST. Which to me means, they know they have an f'd up water heater.


Curses, you've foiled my plot to uncover a diabolical industry takeover by home despot.

On a serious note, thanks for the info.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

just trying to help. thats all. When I run into this crap, it pisses me off, for one, and, I let everyone else know how to fix it, if possible. Once you see how this thing works, you won't need notes. The second you see a GE or Rheem water heater that the pilot lights and burner runs for 5 seconds then dies, you'll know the combustion air safety ****ed up plunger thing is hosed, and, you'll have to call the 800 number on the tank, and, you'll have to give the serial number, and, you'll have to listen to some ***** tell you its an external problem, but, this one time, they'll send a replacement plunger ****ing thing to the customers house, and, as long as you are a licensed plumber, you can fix it. Thats the ****. From now on, when I run into a GE or Rheem piece of **** water heater, I'm telling the customer to just bite the bullet, and by my Bradford White or AO Smith, made in America. GE, We Bring Evil To Life.


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

and so you know what the service call looks like, "Customer heard loud noise from water heater" (This is the sound the spring loaded damper makes when the thermal part fails, and the damper closes and slams up against the air inlets, effectively blocking any makeup air from entering the sealed combustion area.) So, for you guys who don't know, fire isn't burning gas. Well, it is, but at 1 part gas to about 14 parts air. Cut off the air, gas won't burn. Gas basically gets air burning. With that damper on the bottom of these piece of **** water heaters closing, you'll get a few seconds of combustion, and then, it pretty much flames out, because the burner consumed all the air in the combustion area. It'll probably gas for a bit, until the thermocouple cools, but, thats probably only 3 or 4 seconds, unless someone is sitting there at that moment clicking the sparker, is no big deal. Like I said, this has to be the most retarded FVIR setup in the history of FVIR setups. And, from what I have read, they still use it. But then again, I haven't had a true FVIR event on a BW or AO Smith, which uses a catalyst. I'm wondering if that happens, is it a one shot deal? Does the catalyst melt?


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

MikeS said:


> and so you know what the service call looks like, "Customer heard loud noise from water heater" (This is the sound the spring loaded damper makes when the thermal part fails, and the damper closes and slams up against the air inlets, effectively blocking any makeup air from entering the sealed combustion area.) So, for you guys who don't know, fire isn't burning gas. Well, it is, but at 1 part gas to about 14 parts air. Cut off the air, gas won't burn. Gas basically gets air burning. With that damper on the bottom of these piece of **** water heaters closing, you'll get a few seconds of combustion, and then, it pretty much flames out, because the burner consumed all the air in the combustion area. It'll probably gas for a bit, until the thermocouple cools, but, thats probably only 3 or 4 seconds, unless someone is sitting there at that moment clicking the sparker, is no big deal. Like I said, this has to be the most retarded FVIR setup in the history of FVIR setups. And, from what I have read, they still use it. But then again, I haven't had a true FVIR event on a BW or AO Smith, which uses a catalyst. I'm wondering if that happens, is it a one shot deal? Does the catalyst melt?


Wow, you seem pissed at their design. I don't mind it, you can fab a small piece of 1/2" copper with a cap on it to keep that damper open until the glass vial comes. Sure, it's a pain in the behind but I've had far less failures on the rheem/ge's than I've had with whirlpool or ao smith.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I used to install Bradford White for years. Great heater, best on the market.

I install Rheem now because bradford sucks to get in my new location. 

I hate AO Smith because they have the same combustion design as state and that screen needs to be cleaned every 6 months. 

I agree rheems solution sucks, but all the years I have serviced all the water heaters, I have never had one fail. I have never heard of the device failing without a blocked combustion air issue. Just clear out of the blue has a vial failed. 

If states or whirlpools thermal switch fails you need to also call them to have them send you one, yes its easier to replace, but it still sucks getting the parts and the cust is usually out of hot water for a few days.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> If states or whirlpools thermal switch fails you need to also call them to have them send you one, yes its easier to replace, but it still sucks getting the parts and the cust is usually out of hot water for a few days.


Whirlpool is resettable with the push of that tiny button, if the switch itself goes bad you can tie the wires into the valve to each other and keep the heater running while they ship out a new burner assembly.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

MikeS said:


> ah, you guys don't get it. There is this spring loaded plunger, that has a little either glas tube or bimetal pin that when it exceeds 350-375 degrees, it fails, and, this spring loaded plunger pulls up and totally blocks the air inlet. That's Rheem and GE's solution to shutting down the tank in an FVIR event. Its all mechanical. You can blow all the air you want, but, if that thing trips, you'll never light it up. Look it up. At least everyone else in the world of water heaters has a resetable situation. Rheem/GE does not. Anyway, the parts come tomorrow, I'm sure there will be some instructions, I'll post them up.



The good pictures are in the BL.



http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/ge-water-heater-18947/index2/


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> I have never heard of the device failing without a blocked combustion air issue. Just clear out of the blue has a vial failed.


This is what I've found also. No FVIR event at all, just a blocked air issue. That's why I mentioned cleaning the inlet filter thoroughly. It seems like these heaters are starting to pop after the warranty ends, just long enough for the filter screens to get loaded up.





Paul


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I thought it was going to be trying to hold 3 separate pieces ,and it turns out to be just remove the burner clean filters and flame arrestor, remove the old holder with 1/4 turn, remove part of the clip laying in the bottom of the burn chamber, reach in and plug the new vile assembly over the rod and lock it in the holder w/ 1/4 turn. That was before Jim posted his classified pictures in the BL ( out of view of the public).


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

You all know that on the GE all you have to do is take it back to HD for a replacement. If your careful you can do it at a supplier too. Rheem design is a good one but needs a little more thought. Thankfully they know they sell junk and are happy to send parts to a plumber if they have it in stock!!


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## MikeS (Oct 3, 2011)

well, the parts came in. The other plumber put them in. Its working. for now. In my opinion, its still a stupid system. When it fails again, they won't send any more parts. They have her info.


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## Catlin987987 (Nov 12, 2010)

MikeS said:


> ah, you guys don't get it. There is this spring loaded plunger, that has a little either glas tube or bimetal pin that when it exceeds 350-375 degrees, it fails, and, this spring loaded plunger pulls up and totally blocks the air inlet. That's Rheem and GE's solution to shutting down the tank in an FVIR event. Its all mechanical. You can blow all the air you want, but, if that thing trips, you'll never light it up. Look it up. At least everyone else in the world of water heaters has a resetable situation. Rheem/GE does not. Anyway, the parts come tomorrow, I'm sure there will be some instructions, I'll post them up.


ITS CALLED Copper, cut a small piece and stick it in there. The nice thing about the GE/Rheems is they still on the floor and the fresh air is drawn on the side of the tank instead of the bottem.
As an apprentice we installed the HD tanks, and we have very few fail. Even lifting them, they are heavier the John wood and Bradford whites.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

MikeS said:


> dude, its real simple. If you have fixed one of these, you'd be all, yeah, I fixed one, here is what you do. But its obvious you haven't, because all these failures are going to start coming now. Telling me you have installed numerous GE's and Rheems with no problems doesn't help me. It doesn't help anyone. When you do go on that call where one of these fails, you'll thank me for bringing it up.



You're late to the party.

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f7/rheem-water-heater-issue-10791/


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