# Bidding commercial and residential jobs.



## YOUNG1

I am a young master in MA just starting-out on my own, I have done mostly service and little construction. I just met a GC who wants me to give him for two projects he has coming up. I would like to give it a short but do not want to be too high or too low. 

The projects are remodeling a small apartment building in PVC and copper
and a new walgreens in cast iron and copper.

Is there any per-fixture pricing method that I could use to price these two different projects or do I have to do a complete takeoff of all pipes, fittings, floor drains, trap primers, shoktrols, hanger, insulation etc?


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## Tim`s Plumbing

YOUNG1 said:


> I am a young master in MA just starting-out on my own, I have done mostly service and little construction. I just met a GC who wants me to give him for two projects he has coming up. I would like to give it a short but do not want to be too high or too low.
> 
> The projects are remodeling a small apartment building in PVC and copper
> and a new walgreens in cast iron and copper.
> 
> Is there any per-fixture pricing method that I could use to price these two different projects or do I have to do a complete takeoff of all pipes, fittings, floor drains, trap primers, shoktrols, hanger, insulation etc?


I use $2,500 roughly per fixture for commerical jobs here in Ma but I usually do a full take off to bid it as close as posible.


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## YOUNG1

Does that include fixtures and trim?


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## OldSchool

Never worry about being to high

Always worry about being to low..

If you got the job the only reason is because you were low...


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## Tim`s Plumbing

YOUNG1 said:


> Does that include fixtures and trim?


 
Yes , but you would be better off doing a full take off I don`t know what your dicount % is from your suppliers. And are they going with tank type toilets or flush valve type? These things are what can make or break you.

Also are there roof drain that need to be piped ?


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## YOUNG1

1) Yes, there are roof drains, floor drains, floor sinks, cleanouts. etc
How do you factor these into a your pricing?
2) What is the difference in per fixture pricing for a pvc, copper and a ci, copper job?


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## Tim`s Plumbing

YOUNG1 said:


> 1) Yes, there are roof drains, floor drains, floor sinks, cleanouts. etc
> How do you factor these into a your pricing?
> 2) What is the difference in per fixture pricing for a pvc, copper and a ci, copper job?


 I don`t do per fixture on PVC your best bet is call your supply house and get pricing on all the materials do your mark up then add up how many man hours you figure and go from there.

No offence but I have been under bid by guys like you just starting out they find out the hard way if they don`t spend the time on the take off they will be regretting it later.


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## YOUNG1

I am seeking help because I want to do it right rather than guessing, I am not a cheap plumber. I really appreciate your help and time.


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## AlbacoreShuffle

Another way to bid it is to figure out your material cost , mark them up ___ & .
Then give it your best estimation of days on the job and bid it at ____ per day.

On large jobs I mark up my cost by 35% and bid $1200 per day per man .


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## plbgbiz

YOUNG1 said:


> ...I just met a GC who wants me to give him for two projects he has coming up....


Is he brand new also?

If he has been around the block so to speak, ask yourself honestly why he would want to abandon the plumbers he already knows and has worked with for a new guy that is unsure how to bid the job. :whistling2:

I mean no disrespect but it sounds like you are getting ready to have some maintenance work done on your time keeping device.


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## PlumbThis1

We use these books, they update them every year to keep up with trends and inflation. The book is by no means the only resource you should be referencing, it is mearly a comparison that can be applied to your figures. There are many of these books available but this is a start.
http://rsmeans.reedconstructiondata.com/


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## Epox

Back in my concrete days with Dad he would be mad if he lost the bid and wonder & worry what he left off if he got it.


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## AKdaplumba

Is it common to miss something somewhere when doing a bid?


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## Epox

The bigger the project the more opportunity to miss something. People do it all the time. Example, you hear of people forgetting to add in Davis Bacon wages. Really bad mistake.


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## jnohs

i usally work a larger jobs a couple of ways. 
first i do a full take off of materials and labor and hold that number, then i divide that by the amount of fixtures to see if i am in line with the plumbing industry,

then i figure what i want per fixture and multipy that by the amount of fixtures and hold that number
one last time i do another full take off and average the three prices together, If i am lower than the current per-fixture pricing for this type of job then it is no good. 

cheap is easy, of course you will get the job for cheap.

per fixture pricing seems to work but you need to check sometime certian situation dont apply to perfixture pricing and you need to keep sharp and figure everything, if you are through then you are good.


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## plumberkc

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Another way to bid it is to figure out your material cost , mark them up ___ & .
> Then give it your best estimation of days on the job and bid it at ____ per day.
> 
> On large jobs I mark up my cost by 35% and bid $1200 per day per man .


:lol: I need to move into commercial.


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## U666A

mpsllc said:


> The bigger the project the more opportunity to miss something. People do it all the time. Example, you hear of people forgetting to add in Davis Bacon wages. Really bad mistake.


Ouch, I just googled that.. 

On the job I am working on there is a large greenhouse on the 5th floor that was tendered separately. Us on site all wondered why Fox didn't get it.

Turns out that the small outfit that won the tender didn't allow for any Insulation or labour to install such.

I'm fairly certain that company is no longer in business.

The following user wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum


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## hroark2112

When I worked for a large mechanical contractor, we lost a hospital job and were totally clueless as to why we lost it. Turned out the winning bidder left off a chiller and a cooling tower, and all the piping on it.

Doh!


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## U666A

hroark2112 said:


> When I worked for a large mechanical contractor, we lost a hospital job and were totally clueless as to why we lost it. Turned out the winning bidder left off a chiller and a cooling tower, and all the piping on it.
> 
> Doh!


Whoah.. that could be 6, maybe 7 figures...

The following user wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum


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## OldSchool

U666A said:


> Ouch, I just googled that..
> 
> On the job I am working on there is a large greenhouse on the 5th floor that was tendered separately. Us on site all wondered why Fox didn't get it.
> 
> Turns out that the small outfit that won the tender didn't allow for any Insulation or labour to install such.
> 
> I'm fairly certain that company is no longer in business.
> 
> The following user wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum


I didn't know you worked for Fox

Fox has been in my area for about 2 to 3 years

Never know they might ship you up here at some point in time

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## U666A

They are mammoth. Only way I could end up out there would be as supervision, due to mobility clause of the UA. And although I have no problem pushing my local brothers, being a travel card foreman is always a tough go. But I hear there is a ton of work coming up out of the big nickel, so I might jump ship and take a call out of 800 anyway.

The following user wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum


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## OldSchool

U666A said:


> They are mammoth. Only way I could end up out there would be as supervision, due to mobility clause of the UA. And although I have no problem pushing my local brothers, being a travel card foreman is always a tough go. But I hear there is a ton of work coming up out of the big nickel, so I might jump ship and take a call out of 800 anyway.
> 
> The following user wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum


Tons of huge projects going on up here. Billions being spent. 

You never know I might meet you in person in the near future

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## U666A

How far are you from the major projects ongoing? Have you a spare bed? :laughing:

The following user wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum


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## OldSchool

U666A said:


> How far are you from the major projects ongoing? Have you a spare bed? :laughing:
> 
> The following user wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum


I am right in the center of all the action

Lots of room up here I got 4 empty bedrooms

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Piper34

I always try a per fixture price,vs. T&M a good supplier will be willing to help most likely . Nobody gets it right every time .good luck we all get the same plans so be careful . if your fair. You stand a good chance if you lose by a lot you properly gained in the long run.


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## OldSchool

I use to bid so many commercial jobs

That I would be able to give you a price just by knowing the type of building and the weight of the drawings....

I would hold the plans in one hand and I would say this job is worth x amount of dollars... usually i was very close... and a few times I actually submitted my price by this method


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## UALocal1Plumber

There is absolutely only one way to bid a job.

Know your costs;
Add a profit that you feel you want;
Give a price to customer.

Seems simple right. But plumbers everywhere refuse to actually dig into their costs and be competent business people. Instead everyone looks at "what the market will bear" or what "other guys are charging per fixture."

Do your own work and know your costs. Here's a homework assignment: How much does it cost you, as a business owner, per hour to be in business? 

How many plumbers do you know who can actually answer that question? You may be a master plumber, but you're a green business owner. Take the time to learn this skill.

Keith


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## OldSchool

UALocal1Plumber said:


> There is absolutely only one way to bid a job.
> 
> Know your costs;
> Add a profit that you feel you want;
> Give a price to customer.
> 
> Seems simple right. But plumbers everywhere refuse to actually dig into their costs and be competent business people. Instead everyone looks at "what the market will bear" or what "other guys are charging per fixture."
> 
> Do your own work and know your costs. Here's a homework assignment: How much does it cost you, as a business owner, per hour to be in business?
> 
> How many plumbers do you know who can actually answer that question? You may be a master plumber, but you're a green business owner. Take the time to learn this skill.
> 
> Keith


It doesn't matter what buisness you operate you have to know your cost


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## muleychaser

Do a proper take off and assemble the price yourself instead of per fixture pricing. You are new at this and would be smart to learn your own lessons and not someone elses. Over time experience will come and one day it will be second nature to you.

I have always compared bidding jobs to a roller coaster ride....you have a long slow ride to the top assembling the quote and when you hit send on the fax machine you plunge straight down into a few loop de loops waiting to see where you came in. lol.


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## Master Mark

*the best advice*



plbgbiz said:


> Is he brand new also?
> 
> If he has been around the block so to speak, ask yourself honestly why he would want to abandon the plumbers he already knows and has worked with for a new guy that is unsure how to bid the job. :whistling2:
> 
> I mean no disrespect but it sounds like you are getting ready to have some maintenance work done on your time keeping device.


 
listen to the advice that plbgbiz has given you .....

*be wary of contractors looking for fresh young meat:yes:*

before its over you will feel like you are in the movie .....broke-back mountain.....:laughing:


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## seanny deep

My mentor always told me a bout a school job when he was with the union the foreman who did the material takeoff Lost the page with all the valves for the whole building no one caught it till they got the job when they did find out.... They just managed to revoke their bid. Ouch that would have been expensive.


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## Tommy plumber

I had a good friend who is a masonry contractor tell me that when he looks at a job, he looks at it from all different angles, not just in a static way. So he'll look at it once, then again, then he looks another time from yet a different angle.


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## Miguel

After 20 or so yrs bidding high-end jobs I hafta say that I have little to provide in the way of advice despite the fact that those 20 (or so) years were very profitable and successful to me.
Right down to the wire every bid has been a nail-biter for me. Many have been similar but no two tenders have been alike... if that makes any sense.

My most memorable to date was back when I was a wet-behind-the-ears greenhorn and I left $40G on the table! I recall quite distinctly the bid meeting where all tenders were opened and read aloud:
"Bidder A; $165K"
"Bidder B; $210K"
"Bidder C; $178K"
"Bidder D (me); $62K"
(Bidder E was next lowest at $102K)

:blink:

When I got home that day the wife asked me how it went. "Either really good or REALLY BAD. I got the job.", I stammered. <eeep!>

As it turned out, I did the job exactly to spec, got progress pmnts on time, finished the job easily and wound up with about $40K in extras. Was one of my most profitable years!

Since then successful bids by me have been either just squeeking out the lowest bid that were all within 2-5% or by leaving 10-15% on the table. I've lost some to the same margin of my first one and had others edge me out by mere hundreds. I've even been high bid and still won out the contract.

It seems that there is no magic formula as you will mostly all be in the same ballpark if you do your homework. I've always turned my back on subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) under the table shenanigans, sometimes to my loss but I have no regrets in that regard.

It is what it is and nowadays I prefer to work more short-term jobs and keep fewer eggs in more baskets. The heyday was fun but I'd trade the aggravation for a slower and simpler profit index anyday. Too many other things tend to pass you by when you're in that mode.


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