# Wants his tip back



## rizob (Nov 14, 2011)

I've been doing plumbing for a bit but basically just read the threads on here and don't reply but I had to share. So sorry for no introduction. 

I went to a customers house a few days after Christmas and fixed a problem that was supposed to be handled by some other employees of my company when they were there installing a tankless. So I didn't charge the customer because we were supposed to do it anyway. When I told the customer that there was no charge he responded by giving my helper and I a $100 tip and saying merry christmas. The problem was with the check valve on a sewage ejector pit. It wasn't braced right and was ready to blow apart. My boss wanted us to fix it as a curtesy because he was spending so much on the tankless and it was in the same room. After I braced the pipe and started it back up I noticed a leak on the pipe. It was a very small drip coming from a pinhole in the glue of an abs fitting. It was so small I was pretty sure that wrapping it with a little more glue would seal the leak. So while I was there I dabbed a little glue in the pinhole and told the customer to let it dry really good and check it out. If it still leaked we would have to come back and cut the fitting out and fix it. So of course it still leaked. He called the next day and I went out and cut the fitting out and fixed it the right way and billed him for it. The next day the customer calls and tells my boss he needs to talk to me. He wasn't home when I did the work and billed. He wanted to know why I billed him. I told him because it was not related to the check valve we were supposed to fix it was a separate problem so I had to bill. I only did the glue trick out of the kindness of my heart because it was the holiday and I was trying not to bill him. He said that if he knew he had to pay for that he never would have tipped me $100. And he wants me to give him the $100 tip back to use towards the bill. Am I right thinking this guy is a jerk or am I the ass? I'm giving his money back because I don't want to mess up a customer for my boss. But I was thinking about finding a Christmas card that said something about Christmas being the season of giving. I got to think of a good way to let him know he's a jerk without losing his business for my boss. Any ideas?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

So, are you or aren't you a plumber?.....:whistling2:


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

yeah...in the future, don't take more that 20 buh from a cust. of course that don't help now. What my boss would do would be to let me keep the tip and he would offer the guy a compromised price. if the guy didn't take it, we would black list him because customers like that are going to end up being a loss leader in the future. we've had a bunch like that....they call for service and we say "oh sorry we're really busy" and then refer them to our least favorite competitor. 

BTW...who are you?


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> So, are you or aren't you a plumber?.....:whistling2:


"It was a very small drip coming from a pinhole in the glue of an abs fitting. It was so small I was pretty sure that wrapping it with a little more glue would seal the leak. So while I was there I dabbed a little glue in the pinhole and told the customer to let it dry really good and check it out."

:laughing::laughing:


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

rizob dabs abs glue. 

Then charges the ho because dabbing didn't work

Good thing it wasn't me. I would have gone down to the shop and made you eat the __ing bill.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

U definitely did not paint yourself well in this picture.
If an HO gave me $100 and the'dabbing glue' didn't work I would have ate the $2.22 in fittings and 11 minutes and did it on my own time.
Shame on you .
HO is a good guy in this case. Not you my friend.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Goes back to work order. If its not in contract that h/o signs before we start we don't touch. Change order are always signed before hand as well.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

If you're going to touch something, you better fix it. Why didn't you spend the extra 10 minutes and fix it the right way the first time? If you didn't have the material, you could have pointed the problem out and told him if he'd like it repaired to call the shop and schedule a service call. Homeowner is in the right on this one but he probably shouldn't have given you a hundred bucks. 






Paul


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

As much as I don't want to say this, you are in the wrong here bro. As what Highpoint stated, for the 20 cents in fittings and 10 minutes of your time, you're making sure that EVERYTHING is perfect.

I've never received a tip in plumbing, at the most a coffee!

But if I got 100 dollars at Christmas time, I would do everything in my power to make that customer satisfied with my work.

Lesson learned, *there are no shortcuts in plumbing....*


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> If you're going to touch something, you better fix it. Why didn't you spend the extra 10 minutes and fix it the right way the first time? If you didn't have the material, you could have pointed the problem out and told him if he'd like it repaired to call the shop and schedule a service call. Homeowner is in the right on this one but he probably shouldn't have given you a hundred bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bingo! Try to learn from these blunders. It does'nt matter if it was a courtesy or not. I personally would not have accepted that much tip.
BTW, dabbing never works. You should have done what my old boss use too do, heat up a flathead screwdriver and stick it in the joint.:laughing:


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

My ruling is in favor of the customer.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

What town or municipality allows abs on outlet sides of pumps anyways?


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Lesson learned


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

First I've ever heard of a dab or wrap of glue fixing anything. (or a plumber trying too)


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

highpoint said:


> What town or municipality allows abs on outlet sides of pumps anyways?


Seen it a lot in so cal homes, not commercial.

For $100 tip, that $hit gets fixed with a smile. You say you been plumbing for a while, methinks your customer service ability needs some polishing. The cost would be small on your and the companies part, considering the customer just had a tankless put in. When in doubt, call the boss before you do anything questionable.


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## rizob (Nov 14, 2011)

Agreed the glue wasn't the greatest idea but if you saw the leak you probably would have thought the same thing. The proper thing to do would have been to cut it out and bill. Not to mention I was there for another issue all together and trying to save the guy a buck. I didnt ask for the $100 he did that on his own. I told the customer that it may not work and then we would have to fix it the right way but give it a try.(for free!) I know saving the customer money is not what most of you would do but we have a loyal customer base and I like to make them happy. Most of our business is by word of mouth. And I agree sometimes i think too much about the customer and should charge more or not try to do things to save them money and should just completely redo it and charge. I have a good name as a plumbing mechanic and I always do things the best possible way. I hardly ever have callbacks. I don't care what any of you say. It is possible to stop a leak in abs pipe with just glue. We have all done it before. Is it the best way to fix it? No. I agree. But it was a good option for the situation. If I was there to fix that problem I would have cut it out and fixed it the right way. I am far from a hack. But I was trying to hook him up with a trick that I know for a fact that most of you have done before. Abs glue melts the pipe and also melts older glue which in turn creates a strong bond that can last for years. I worked in a plastic factory when I was younger so I probably know more about plastic than most plumbers. Trying to save a guy that just paid a lot of money for a tankless some money at christmas. Never told him to give me $100. If I walked out of there with no money like I wanted to and it still leaked it would be a non issue. I did what I did for free. Yes it was a shot in the dark but it was a free shot in the dark. But don't give me the oh your a hack posts when you know it works in some situations. And if you don't know than you haven't worked with abs much.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

highpoint said:


> What town or municipality allows abs on outlet sides of pumps anyways?





JK949 said:


> Seen it a lot in so cal homes, not commercial.


 
Yup. Around here almost all of the ejector pumps are piped in ABS. Some even have ABS or PVC check valves.  







Paul


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Sounds like I have been fortunate enough not to have had to work with ABS.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

rizob said:


> *Agreed the glue wasn't the greatest idea but if you saw the leak you probably would have thought the same thing.*




I (and it sounds like the majority of the guys here) would have cut it out and repaired it the right way.



rizob said:


> *I know saving the customer money is not what most of you would do*




You don't know anything about my business, my work ethic or my customer service. I am always thinking about the the welfare of the customer when doing plumbing. Both the welfare of their plumbing and their wallet. I don't charge for every task I do but if I do something for free, I still do it right.



rizob said:


> *I always do things the best possible way. I hardly ever have callbacks*.


I don't know much about you other than these 2 posts but I'm not seeing it that way.



rizob said:


> *We have all done it before.*


 

I have never "dabbed" ABS to try and stop a leak. 



rizob said:


> *If I was there to fix that problem I would have cut it out and fixed it the right way.*


 

It doesn't matter what you were there to fix. You tried to fix the ABS leak and failed. If you're going to do anything in a customers home, you have to do it the right way. Plain and simple.





Paul


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

In Canada we use ABS in residential, underground and above ground.

The dabbing method does in fact work, but I don't know if I would use it for anything under any sort of water pressure.

I was doing a 4 story house, I had test on but was leaking out of somewhere. The inspector was on his way and I was running around the 1000 glue joints to see if I forgot to glue one.

I found a joint that was glued, a vent in the attic. For whatever reason it was leaking jut a tad bit of air.
Instead of cutting out the tee and 90, I just dabbed some glue on the fitting and pipe, left it for 5 minutes. Put on air test and it held. And I can guarantee the glue will hold it, the glue basically melts the pipe together, and if it can hold 6lbs of pressure, it can handle the air pressure in a venting system.

So don't let peoples comments get to you, the dabbing method does work in certain applications, just maybe know the time and place to use it I guess. lesson learned.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

All you have done is seal one spot, the joint is not properly bonded together or you wouldn't have a leak in the first place. 100% pure hackery.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I have never worked in a plastic factory or a rocket factory but ABS glue has always dried pretty fast for me. I think I would have tested it. I would have done it for free because I rigged it to start with and it failed.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I would have cut out the leaking fitting, and glued in a new fitting. "dabbing" or "wrapping" glue as u call it is right right up there with using two hose clamps and a piece of rubber boot to fix the leaking fitting. The customer deserves to have his tip back IMO. I would sure as hell be pissed the Fuqe off if I was that customer.


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## rizob (Nov 14, 2011)

Oh and it wasn't a 10 minute fix job. It was. Unbolt All the rusty bolts that when I did it snapped off. Cut about 10" of caulk. Off of the thing just to get the lid off. Then fix some other stuff some other plumber rigged up a few years ago to get it all back together even before I fixed the main issue. Not just a few fittings and some glue. I think that's where you guys are missing the point. It took about 2 hrs to fix it the right way. And on top of everything I cut him a break on that price too because he gave me a big tip. But I had to charge something for 2 hrs of work. Or I would get fired. . Come on you guys have been there. It all sounds easy but sometimes you know you will be there for hours and have **** all over you and have to charge a million dollars but maybe, just maybe. If you try this little trick you can save all of that. And my main point is I tried it for free. If I charged him for something like that hell yea I would be a hack. But I did it for free and told him to see if it went good. Why wouldn't I charge to do It right? The $100 was a tip not a bill. I didn't make him give me that And my boss says if someone tips. Take it. So I did. It's not my fault he thought he was a big spender throwing $100 around. The fact is before he gave me that I told him it may not work. I was just trying a trick and if it didn't and he wanted to fix it right then call us. Oh by the way this was an ongoing problem that he was dealing with for a long time by putting rags down to stop it. Like I said it was very small. But he knew it was there before I was. I think a lot of you guys only work with PVC too. Abs is completely different. PVC you definitely have to cut out. I have seen multiple repairs on abs with glue. By a few different companies and many different plumbers. Is it the best choice? No. I agree with that but everything is based on the situation you are having at the time. I had tons of other work to do that day and gave the h/o the option for us to come back and fix the right way but while I'm here I can try this and sometimes it works. That's what I told him. I didn't sell it as the permanent fix. It was the hey, I can do this for free and you may not have to call us back fix. But maybe you guys are right. Maybe I am at fault. One thing I learned from this is never try to help someone out. All I meant to do was not charge a guy that just handed my company probably a $5000 check. With all he got done. But in my eyes that doesn't mean that everything from here on out is free and just because he gave me $100 doesn't mean I never charge him again. I was there to fix the check valve. That was the free job and like I said I tried to hook him up by stopping a little pinhole leak that he knew about. If it wasn't that big of a deal to him he shouldn't have called us back and put his rags back in place. But a tip is a tip and a bill is a bill. there was no bill for this work. If I walked out of there with nothing and a fixed check valve all would have been good.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

rizob said:


> I've been doing plumbing for a bit but basically just read the threads on here and don't reply but I had to share. So sorry for no introduction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

You say u did it 4 free- technically u didn't cause he gave u that tip, that tip meant the customer was expecting u to do the shiot right and not hack it up like Joe shmo the hack.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> rizob said:
> 
> 
> > I've been doing plumbing for a bit but basically just read the threads on here and don't reply but I had to share. So sorry for no introduction.
> ...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Tommy plumber said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, either post an intro, or please, moderator, lock this thread. Don't indulge those without intros.
> ...


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

rizob said:


> Am I right thinking this guy is a jerk or am I the ass?


What do you want?


You come in here asking for opinions and then jump down the throat of everybody that said you ****ed up. You know what you did wasn't the right way to handle it. The lesson you should learn here is not to touch something if you're not going to do it right. Customers call us out based on the belief that we know what we're doing and we can fix things the right way. Whether you think you're a hack or not, you did hack work and it didn't fix the problem. It didn't affect you any, since you got paid $100 cash the first time and you got paid by your employer the second time. It only cost the customer.







Paul


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

rizob said:


> But I had to charge something for 2 hrs of work. Or I would get fired.


Did you call your boss and talk about the situation and what was required? Let the guy in the office be the bad guy not you. 

As far as glue holding on ABS drains maybe, maybe not, still not allowed by code as a repair and you know that. Ejector drains are pressurized, it wasn't going to hold. Maybe should have said something along the lines of, if that glue holds I'll gladly accept a tip but if not better save it for the repair. 

Never accept a tip if it could bite you on the @$$ later.


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## rizob (Nov 14, 2011)

I never jumped down the throat of anyone that said I f&&& up. I was just trying to state my position. As far as what I want? I'm not really sure. No one was there except for me.

I'm sure that you have had leaks too. It doesn't mean you are a hack. If that's the case we are all hacks because we have all had leaks. And we have all made bad decisions when it comes to dealing with customers. And we have all tried things we thought would work and they didn't So be it. Maybe this is why I am not a poster on forums. Because it really doesn't mean anything. No one was there but me. 

I do appreciate the people that gave me advice without calling me a hack. And I am sorry for not using paragraphs. I was writing on my phone. And I will give an introduction. Sorry about that.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

rizob said:


> And I will give an introduction. Sorry about that.


When?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I didn't call you a hack, or if I did I didn't mean to. I did say that the repair you did was a hack repair and it sounds like you knew it was fishy even when you did it. It seems like you know better but maybe your intentions to help the customer got the better of you. Hopefully you have learned a better way to handle this situation when it comes up again. 

I've had my share of leaks, just like everybody here. Everybody makes mistakes and the smart ones learn from them. The stubborn ones keep doing it and complaining that everybody else is unreasonable. There's a lot of hard headed folks on here but there's tons of priceless knowledge too. Hopefully you'll stick around. 

It must be the beer talking, I'm gettin' all mushy. Gotta go.









Paul


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

When you first spotted the pin hole leak while working on the check valve it would have been a good time to show the customer why they need to re-pipe the system. To start with he knew there were issues with the piping and explaining that it was not installed with best practices would have opened the door for you to fix it correctly. Once you put a band aid on it you own it. If customer chooses a different route then so be it.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was about a regret about a circumcision.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

In my eyes you touch it its your responsibility cause that's what the customer is gonna think.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

In the future keep this in mind; whenever you touch something in a home owner’s home or business you and the company are now married to that issue. I will not say the home owner essentially paid for the job with the tip. A tip is a tip. I would inform the home owner that you are going to void the contract /invoice and thank him for the business. I would also credit the company for an hour’s worth of time as you received more than an hour’s worth from the home owner and did not replace the sweep. But that is just me.


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

I think the *real* lesson here is "don't post about your questionable methods on PZ"

There are things that everyone does at one time or another for their own reasons. Those things just don't get talked about. 

Example: "I was sitting on the edge of a tub fixing a tub/shower valve when I noticed the toilet rocking. It was 6 in the evening on my anniversary and my kid's play was that night and I could feel my back going out and it was a Kohler Rialto...so I shimmed it"

Don't ever say something like that on here.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

just give the guy back the 100 bucks.
you really should have only taken a 20, cause
100 bucks is really over the top for a tip
...

just tell him sorry, and thanks anyway but you are right, 
tell him thatyou simply tried to do him a cheap, free, fix and favor and 
it just did not work out... so that is it...

no good deeds ever go unpunished...

get over it..



if you already bought lottery tickets 
with the 100 bucks, then that is your tough luck
ane lesson learned
.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

rizob said:


> I've been doing plumbing for a bit but basically just read the threads on here and don't reply but I had to share. So sorry for no introduction....


As pointed out by the Greenlettermen, you are under no official obligation to post an intro. But we don't have an official obligation to coddle your candy ass either. :furious: 








As far as an intro goes, I get a sense of what you're all about and the intro would just be a waste of time at this point.

Your not sharing anything but you are getting an education for free. You're just too arrogant and immature to realize it.



rizob said:


> ....fixed a problem that was supposed to be handled by some other employees of my company when they were there installing a tankless. So I didn't charge the customer......My boss wanted us to fix it...


Your boss didn't ask you to patch it. You admit it wasn't the right fix. Your only reason for not doing it is either misguided thinking or pure laziness. I bet you can guess which one I think it was. :whistling2: You deliberately refused to do what your boss asked. If it is more involved than he anticipated, it is your responsibility as his employee to inform him, not blow him off and risk his reputation. I say _"his"_ because you have no skin in the game to start with.



rizob said:


> ...my helper and I a $100 tip and saying merry christmas...


 So you got paid by your boss and by the customer. The company spent money to fix it, the customer spent money to fix it, the problem didn't get fixed, and you got paid twice. Geez, you're a real piece of work. Too bad you didn't just do what was asked of you by the man that pays to support your family. I'm not surprised though. You were asked nicely to post an intro but you refused to do that unless it is on your terms. What's like to live in your "me first" world?



rizob said:


> ...Am I right thinking this guy is a jerk or am I the ass?


You are. PERIOD.




rizob said:


> ...I got to think of a good way to let him know he's a jerk without losing his business for my boss....


 Again, you are the ass. PERIOD.



rizob said:


> ...Any ideas?....


Just one. Go back to working in a plastic factory.



rizob said:


> ...The proper thing to do would have been to cut it out and bill.......I told the customer that it may not work and then we would have to fix it the right way but give it a try.(for free!)...


 Which is EXACTLY what your boss requested when he said "FIX IT". The customer was already getting it for free according to you.



rizob said:


> ...I know saving the customer money is not what most of you would do but we have a loyal customer base...


You are such an arrogant person. What evil happened in your life to make you this way?



rizob said:


> ...sometimes i think too much about the customer and should charge more...


What you charge is not (or at least shouldn't be) up to you. If it is, your boss should probably get a job somewhere else.



rizob said:


> ...I don't care what any of you say....


Then why are you here? We hear plenty of _"the customer got screwed by the haughty plumber"_ stories without reading yours. :yawn:



rizob said:


> ...But it was a good option for the situation...


Apparently not. :whistling2:



rizob said:


> ...If I was there to fix that problem I would have cut it out and fixed it the right way.


Apparently not. :whistling2:



rizob said:


> ...I am far from a hack....I was trying to hook him up with a trick that I know for a fact that most of you have done before....


Again, your arrogance is astounding. Here's a little something to add to today's customer service class that you volunteered for. Customers don't care about your tricks. They want solutions. The money is almost always secondary to whether or not you actually fixed something, which you didn't. 

Do you even read what you type?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> When I first saw this thread, I thought it was about a regret about a circumcision.


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Give me a 100 bucks and I won't call you a hack....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Airgap said:


> Give me a 100 bucks and I won't call you a hack....


You're getting soft in your old age. :laughing:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> As pointed out by the Greenlettermen, you are under no official obligation to post an intro. But we don't have an official obligation to coddle your candy ass either. :furious:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And no coffee either! Candy ASS!


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> You're getting soft in your old age. :laughing:


Tell that to the 7 15 year old boys that were camped out on my couch when we got home last night at 1 am....

There are places his crew are allowed to loiter in the house, and that aint one of them.....:laughing:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Not trying to critisize this guy anymore, cuz by now he should know, he messed up. Just want to say how I look at these situations that come up every day, when the customer says my 3 favorite little words, "WHILE YOUR HERE".

1- I look at the big picture, or in this case the whole piping arrangement. Sounds like the whole piping system was hacked in, so why would I even want to attempt to repair, just this 1 fitting, (much less for free)?

2-When I see a joint leaking, on any type of fitting, I say to myself, there is obviously a whole little channel going through this fitting, from the end of pipe, to the face of the fitting, that is allowing the air, gas, or water to leak out of the pipe. Now if I put this little dab of solder, or in this case glue, the only thing holding this joint from leaking, is this little dab of glue on the face of fitting. Self, this aint gonna work. No matter what time it is, or how much the customer already paid for other work performed.

3- How many times have you replaced a fitting like this, & found the whole joint was bad, & said to yourself, how the heck did this ever hold anything in the 1st place. If it leaks or even drips, IMO, the whole joint is compromised, & I aint touching it, unless I cut it out, & start over.

4- And the main issues I would have thought about in this case, is 
A- This joint is going to be under pressure at all times.
B- This pipe is going to be moving, or being jarred every time the pump turns on, & when it turns off. How long is a dab of glue going to hold.

This whole thought process would have gone through my head, in about 20 seconds, before I even attempted, to do anything.

We all want to get the job done & not have to go back, but in many cases, & especially this one, your much better off, giving the customer a price, to repair not only the fitting leaking, but the whole piping arrangement, "THE RIGHT WAY", & come back another day, when your not so rushed..


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Biz, 
Tell us how you really feel.:laughing:


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## rizob (Nov 14, 2011)

I just realized that the plumbing zone is the last place that I will get info from. You guys are the arrogant ones. But hey that's what forums are for right. For people to come on and make themselves sound like the greatest plumber in the world. 

I do appreciate the people that gave me advice without bashing me. It was well received and I do understand the error of my ways. 

I don't think there is any reason for me to post an intro because I really don't want to be a part of a bashing party.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

That's your choice....


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Just to set the record straight here, you can't buy any fitting for 20 cents :thumbsup:


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## Ross (Dec 9, 2011)

I woulda used duct tape.lol


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