# Laying Out Overhead DWV



## Mr.Layhe (Jul 17, 2015)

Hey guys,

I'll try to be short and simple. I'm hoping to go from non-union to Union soon. I'm currently in my 5th year doing commercial plumbing with a small company.

All of our jobs are on a much smaller scale compared to Union. All over head work is done as we go. Nothing is laid out, etc.

Ive always tried to be as efficient as possible, but my current company doesn't have jobs big enough for me to practice different ways of doing overhead piping.

I've read here, some guys lay out everything, then set shots hang and install.

Some use string lines, or lasers etc.

Any help with how this is done would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

HOW COME WITH 21 POSTS SINCE 2015 YOU HAVE "NEVER" POSTED A
INTRODUCTION ? ? ?


An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> HOW COME WITH 21 POSTS SINCE 2015 YOU HAVE "NEVER" POSTED A
> INTRODUCTION ? ? ?


Why are new members write only 1 or 2 sentences as an intro? Is it the lack of education or laziness?

His intro was 2 sentences in his 1st post. Come on, put some enthusiasm because otherwise we don't reciprocate.


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## Mr.Layhe (Jul 17, 2015)

Hey guys, I posted my into. My apologies. I just never noticed it was needed.

I also didn't think people on the internet would care about my life story lol.

Anyways, it's posted!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

When I did commercial dwv, we used lasers. We'd snap chalk lines on the slab, complete with 45's and hangers and then transfer that to the ceiling. On the ceiling we would install threaded rod into the slab, and run pipe.


Years ago, before lasers, we'd snap those same chalk lines on the ceiling slab.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

a union plumber I know says basically its all done by computer you dont even use a lazer, and your sent a set of hangers pre cut to pitch and you just throw the pipe in 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mr.Layhe (Jul 17, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> When I did commercial dwv, we used lasers. We'd snap chalk lines on the slab, complete with 45's and hangers and then transfer that to the ceiling. On the ceiling we would install threaded rod into the slab, and run pipe.
> 
> 
> Years ago, before lasers, we'd snap those same chalk lines on the ceiling slab.


How'd you transfer your center of each sleeve down to the floor? Plumbbob?


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## Mr.Layhe (Jul 17, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> a union plumber I know says basically its all done by computer you dont even use a lazer, and your sent a set of hangers pre cut to pitch and you just throw the pipe in
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not sure this would work. Not all concrete ceilings are level, you might have objects on the way which you'll have to offset etc


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> a union plumber I know says basically its all done by computer you dont even use a lazer, and your sent a set of hangers pre cut to pitch and you just throw the pipe in
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The guy over simplified it but yes.

I've had many situations like this in large piping doing industrial paper mills, oil refinery and co-gens. Everything was prefabbed even the hangers that came along some iso's and auto-cad color pictures in 3D. Sure we had to modify some pieces and level them but most of the time it fit.


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## Mykeeb33 (Mar 6, 2015)

Snap main & large branch lines on the floor. Laser up to the holes. Lay fittings out on the floor. Laser up and mark hanger locations. Cut two or three rods to make sure your elevation is where you want it to be. Put in a couple pieces of show pipe. Take pipe measurement right on the floor. Go, go, go!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Mr.Layhe said:


> How'd you transfer your center of each sleeve down to the floor? Plumbbob?






























If you have a laser, you can use it to transfer the center of the sleeve down to the floor. Or use a plumbbob. 


With the chalk lines snapped on the floor, the fitting ends marked on the floor, the pipe ends marked on the floor and the hanger locations marked on the floor, you could cut your pipe to size by measuring the marks on the floor. So when you go up in the lift, it was to install threaded rod and hang pipe. 


All your measuring can be done on the floor from all your chalk lines. The pipes can be cut from measuring the marks that you made on the floor. 


As I posted, years ago before lasers, all the lines had to be marked on the ceiling itself.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Test


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

My current project is all Bim and prefabbed. So far everything is working out, but it is not without its problems. All MEP,s work together to make sure there aren't many clashes. I do see the electrician is working off paper plans and is already in our way in a few areas.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> If you have a laser, you can use it to transfer the center of the sleeve down to the floor. Or use a plumbbob.
> 
> 
> With the chalk lines snapped on the floor, the fitting ends marked on the floor, the pipe ends marked on the floor and the hanger locations marked on the floor, you could cut your pipe to size by measuring the marks on the floor. So when you go up in the lift, it was to install threaded rod and hang pipe.
> ...


Tommy, they gave me 3- first year apprentices and 1- journeyman for my current job. Once they learned the basics on putting together no-hub, they are moving right along. No real need to layout on the floor, just like sprinkler guys. The journeyman and I are going to make sure they know how to layout on the floor and transfer to the ceiling as well. We still do a lot of jobs this way as well.


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## Mr.Layhe (Jul 17, 2015)

Tango said:


> The guy over simplified it but yes.
> 
> I've had many situations like this in large piping doing industrial paper mills, oil refinery and co-gens. Everything was prefabbed even the hangers that came along some iso's and auto-cad color pictures in 3D. Sure we had to modify some pieces and level them but most of the time it fit.


Really eh. Seems almost like factory work!


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## Mr.Layhe (Jul 17, 2015)

Mykeeb33 said:


> Snap main & large branch lines on the floor. Laser up to the holes. Lay fittings out on the floor. Laser up and mark hanger locations. Cut two or three rods to make sure your elevation is where you want it to be. Put in a couple pieces of show pipe. Take pipe measurement right on the floor. Go, go, go!


Thanks!


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## Mr.Layhe (Jul 17, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> If you have a laser, you can use it to transfer the center of the sleeve down to the floor. Or use a plumbbob.
> 
> 
> With the chalk lines snapped on the floor, the fitting ends marked on the floor, the pipe ends marked on the floor and the hanger locations marked on the floor, you could cut your pipe to size by measuring the marks on the floor. So when you go up in the lift, it was to install threaded rod and hang pipe.
> ...


Awesome thanks for your help


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## Mr.Layhe (Jul 17, 2015)

89plumbum said:


> My current project is all Bim and prefabbed. So far everything is working out, but it is not without its problems. All MEP,s work together to make sure there aren't many clashes. I do see the electrician is working off paper plans and is already in our way in a few areas.


I really appreciate the pics and information. May I ask what "BIM" stand for as well as "MEP"? I'm not familiar with these.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Mr.Layhe said:


> I really appreciate the pics and information. May I ask what "BIM" stand for as well as "MEP"? I'm not familiar with these.


Building Information Modeling & Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I still see electricians laying out can lights with string.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

89plumbum said:


> Tommy, they gave me 3- first year apprentices and 1- journeyman for my current job. Once they learned the basics on putting together no-hub, they are moving right along. No real need to layout on the floor, just like sprinkler guys. The journeyman and I are going to make sure they know how to layout on the floor and transfer to the ceiling as well. We still do a lot of jobs this way as well.


Are you black swan on your no hub joints???that is the only way we can get a no hub job to hold a test


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

89plumbum said:


> Tommy, they gave me 3- first year apprentices and 1- journeyman for my current job. Once they learned the basics on putting together no-hub, they are moving right along. No real need to layout on the floor, just like sprinkler guys. The journeyman and I are going to make sure they know how to layout on the floor and transfer to the ceiling as well. We still do a lot of jobs this way as well.


Oops,sorry


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

sparky said:


> Are you black swan on your no hub joints???that is the only way we can get a no hub job to hold a test


We only use BS on problem joints. (no pun intended)

Last job we only had a few leaks on 15 and 12”. 

We had a job years ago where every joint leaked. We had to use black swan on everything, storm and sanitary.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

89plumbum said:


> We only use BS on problem joints. (no pun intended)
> 
> Last job we only had a few leaks on 15 and 12”.
> 
> We had a job years ago where every joint leaked. We had to use black swan on everything, storm and sanitary.


Did you ever figure out why every joint leaked? Were you testing more than 1 floor at a time?


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Anyone using cast in place concrete insert anchors?
http://anchors.dewalt.com/anchors/p...chors/wood-knocker2plus/wood-knocker2plus.php

If so, what are you using to assist in your layout on plywood decks, CAD, Trimble, ....?


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Plumbus said:


> Did you ever figure out why every joint leaked? Were you testing more than 1 floor at a time?


 It was the type of no hub band. I can't remember the name but each band had 6- clamps from 2" to 12". 1-1/2 only had 4- clamps. It was a single story school. With the larger pipe we would apply the BS, put it all together and slightly snug it up. The next day we would fully tighten them with our seekonk wrench. The reason we did this is because the bands would still leak if we just tightened them right away. 

As far as the deck inserts, we use several kinds with the Trimble.


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## plumbersteve27 (Sep 5, 2018)

Yeah, basically what the others have said is how I've been taught. Lasers are your friend. Also, when I'm on a lift hanging my hangers, instead of having to go up and down to grab pipe I hang most if not all of them at one time. I bring a gunner (short piece of pipe or unistrut) up with me to lay in the hangers to make sure I'm staying on grade. Then just bring around 4 pieces of pipe (depending on what I'm working with) up on the lift with me and just push them all through. Mainly do this for the trunk line, the branches can be a little trickier.


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## PlumbdogTim (Apr 9, 2018)

I only have problems getting cast iron to hold when we test with too much head. Like if you are testing roof drains all the way from the 8th floor to the street. In that case you can just cut in additional test tees or rod together riser clamps at your joint. 

I don't think gluing bands is legal in Texas.


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## exclamation (Mar 11, 2013)

Well I’m pretty sure there’s no such thing as too much head :vs_no_no_no::vs_rightHere:


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

Plumbus said:


> Anyone using cast in place concrete insert anchors?
> http://anchors.dewalt.com/anchors/p...chors/wood-knocker2plus/wood-knocker2plus.php
> 
> If so, what are you using to assist in your layout on plywood decks, CAD, Trimble, ....?


On the last job that I did we used Trimble,I made all of the files in Autocad MEP and put them on a thumb drive for the Trimble guy to load.It really worked out very well,color coded the different sizes of bang it's on the file and there was no confusion as to what size goes where.Someone makes one that takes 3 different sizes of rod in one anchor might be Powers Fasteners if you only want to carry one type.Had to do a lot of walking on the decks after rebar and cables were set to replace ones that they tore out.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Plumbus said:


> Anyone using cast in place concrete insert anchors?
> http://anchors.dewalt.com/anchors/p...chors/wood-knocker2plus/wood-knocker2plus.php
> 
> If so, what are you using to assist in your layout on plywood decks, CAD, Trimble, ....?



Im trying to think when you would even use these? I never saw on any commercial building plywood being used for forms, usually a steel deck then poured concrete, or nowa days all preformed concrete walls and floors..I have used tons of the expandable drill in anchors with great success ...this type but not that price or size, just showing the type.. https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Thread...kmr1&keywords=female+threaded+concrete+anchor


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

"Had to do a lot of walking on the decks after rebar and cables were set to replace ones that they tore out."

That must have put you in a jolly mood.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Im trying to think when you would even use these? I never saw on any commercial building plywood being used for forms, usually a steel deck then poured concrete, or nowa days all preformed concrete walls and floors..I have used tons of the expandable drill in anchors with great success ...this type but not that price or size, just showing the type.. https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Thread...kmr1&keywords=female+threaded+concrete+anchor


You see a lot of plywood used in high rises where the bottom of the deck is the finished ceiling.They do make the same style anchor for metal decks too.If you can get your anchors in on the deck in the right places it's faster saves tons of time as opposed to drilling all of them especially when the specs start calling for 5/8 and 3/4 rod.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

Plumbus said:


> "Had to do a lot of walking on the decks after rebar and cables were set to replace ones that they tore out."
> 
> That must have put you in a jolly mood.


It was a job where you had to pick your battles.Concrete,Iron Workers,Carpenters,and the tower crane all belonged to the GC.All of the horizontal W+V,vertical stacks were cast in place,water got Hilti sleeves.They pretty much beat up everything,and it was in the contract that we had to supply 2 Muckers for every pour to fix things on the fly as they beat it up pouring.

I'M GLAD I'M RETIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

leakfree said:


> It was a job where you had to pick your battles.Concrete,Iron Workers,Carpenters,and the tower crane all belonged to the GC.All of the horizontal W+V,vertical stacks were cast in place,water got Hilti sleeves.They pretty much beat up everything,and it was in the contract that we had to supply 2 Muckers for every pour to fix things on the fly as they beat it up pouring.
> 
> I'M GLAD I'M RETIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!


I've seen such lack of respect for other trades and jobs where everyone is on the same page. Though I prefer the latter, as the years have goon by, it seems the former is becoming more prevalent.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

This is really my first project that's all BIM & pre-fabbed. The whole concept is unreal compared to traditional stick building. There's been several instances where we clashed with other trades. But as soon as you look at the model together, there's pretty much no need to take it further from there. 

Our BIM guy is extremely accurate. The only problem we have is that as a company, we have so much work, were often getting our spools delivered the same day they need to be installed. So it's really difficult to stay ahead.

The MDI's (metal deck inserts) are a real time saver.


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