# Crimp pex vs. Wirsbo pex



## Mr. Precision

Starting a debate on Pex. Crimp or Wirsbo. 

I'll use Wirsbo hands down


----------



## johnlewismcleod

Better post an intro before starting a debate or the debate will be about something other than pex :yes:


----------



## Widdershins

Y'all need to properly join the forum first.

Go here and start a new introduction thread telling us a little about yourself----> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


----------



## OldSchool

Mr. Precision said:


> Starting a debate on Pex. Crimp or Wirsbo.
> 
> I'll use Wirsbo hands down


Is with or with out sharkbites ???


----------



## 89plumbum

Poly all the way!:thumbup:


----------



## OldSchool

Thread should be called garden hose or copper


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

What's PEX???


----------



## plbgbiz

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> What's PEX???


They are the muscles I have been working on.


----------



## OldSchool

plbgbiz said:


> They are the muscles I have been working on.


Get out of the office and truck ... And get on the shovel and your pex will be fine

Not much pex exercise in pushing a pencil


----------



## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

plbgbiz said:


> They are the muscles I have been working on.


How do I crimp is it like crunches for your pex?


----------



## theplumbinator

I hate using either, rather use copper any day if your scared of a torch or lack the skill to use one man up and get a pro press, I do use pex on occasion an I don't like it, but wirsbo is the biggest pain in the Ass ive ever worked with! Try expanding those plastic sleeves on a zero degree day in New construction that doesn't have working heat yet. I still have nightmares of running out to the van we had to leave running all day with the defroster on so we could make a few joints before the bag of expanding sleeves cooled off. I will take a crimp ring any day over that other junk, preferably viega. Also I would suggest introducing yourself before someone beats u up in here.


----------



## JonOliver

Crimp all the way! When using wirsbo, all the fittings shrink the id at that fitting just a little bit. Causes friction, can drop pressure slightly. With enough fittings, I have noticed a noticeable pressure drop.


----------



## U666A

JonOliver said:


> Crimp all the way! When using wirsbo, all the fittings shrink the id at that fitting just a little bit. Causes friction, can drop pressure slightly. With enough fittings, I have noticed a noticeable pressure drop.


Almost every response to the original post in this thread mentions the rule of an introduction.

You expect me to respect your opinion on which piping configuration is better when it's clear you can't follow the simplest of instructions?!? :blink:


----------



## U666A

You guys don't let me have ANY fun... :laughing:


----------



## marc76075

JonOliver said:


> Crimp all the way! When using wirsbo, all the fittings shrink the id at that fitting just a little bit. Causes friction, can drop pressure slightly. With enough fittings, I have noticed a noticeable pressure drop.


I highly doubt you've used uponor pex if you really think the fittings choke down the id more than crimp pex.


----------



## AKdaplumba

Crimp is faster:thumbup:


----------



## brian phillips

Guess you never worked on the grey crimped pipe found mostly in mobile homes, uponor pex is way better.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## Plumbdog

theplumbinator said:


> I hate using either, rather use copper any day if your scared of a torch or lack the skill to use one man up and get a pro press, I do use pex on occasion an I don't like it, but wirsbo is the biggest pain in the Ass ive ever worked with! Try expanding those plastic sleeves on a zero degree day in New construction that doesn't have working heat yet. I still have nightmares of running out to the van we had to leave running all day with the defroster on so we could make a few joints before the bag of expanding sleeves cooled off. I will take a crimp ring any day over that other junk, preferably viega. Also I would suggest introducing yourself before someone beats u up in here.


On a cold day keep the rings in your pockets, you'll have no problems expanding them.


----------



## Mississippiplum

Plumbdog said:


> On a cold day keep the rings in your pockets, you'll have no problems expanding them.


How bout keeping them in a cooler packed with them warm gel packs?

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


----------



## plbgbiz

How about the OP post an intro BEFORE we put on a pony show for his benefit.


----------



## PunkRockPlumber

Mississippiplum said:


> How bout keeping them in a cooler packed with them warm gel packs?
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


It's not just the rings but the pipe itself that has problems in the cold. I use a heat gun in those circumstances.


----------



## antiCon

Uponor or FTW!!!


----------



## theplumbinator

I can honestly say I dislike the wirsbo expanding tool also. And the price of the battery operated tool or the pneumatic tool is outrageous. Plus do I really want to lug a compressor into every radiant or water pipe job? Its bad enough having to bring it in for a staple up or down job. I think all pex fittings reduce flow at the fittings not just one brand. Another reason I don't like the stuff.


----------



## ditchdigger

We use the crimp style and run a lot of 1inch to keep pressure up


----------



## theplumbinator

ditchdigger said:


> We use the crimp style and run a lot of 1inch to keep pressure up


I do the same especially on a shower with a million accessories. A normal shower with one valve and head isn't good enough anymore. It needs ten body sprays a rain head two temp control valves a hand held and two slide bars or your not keeping up with the jones family next door. Don't forget the Roman tub thats used once year making the bathroom stink with a dry trap lol.


----------



## PlungerJockey

I do not pex often, but when I pex, I smash rings


----------



## Airgap

Who cares, it's just PEX....


----------



## Titletownplumbr

ditchdigger said:


> We use the crimp style and run a lot of 1inch to* keep pressure up*


You mean volume.


----------



## ditchdigger

Titletownplumbr said:


> You mean volume.[/QUOTE
> 
> Another perfect one corrects me lol


----------



## theplumbinator

Correct larger diameter pipe more volume, pressure stays same.


----------



## RW Plumbing

theplumbinator said:


> I can honestly say I dislike the wirsbo expanding tool also. And the price of the battery operated tool or the pneumatic tool is outrageous. Plus do I really want to lug a compressor into every radiant or water pipe job? Its bad enough having to bring it in for a staple up or down job. I think all pex fittings reduce flow at the fittings not just one brand. Another reason I don't like the stuff.


Use the milwaukee expander. Not too expensive and auto rotates. Uses the 12 volt batteries.


----------



## RW Plumbing

AKdaplumba said:


> Crimp is faster:thumbup:


The expansion with the milwaukee tool is just as fast.


----------



## Piper34

Never had a pressure or volume issue with pex I use crimp by viega and it works very well my experience has been very good with pex I own a torch and pro press use them both proficiently .i also own a jenco and packing irons ,technology is good this business is hard enough to make a living if newAPPROVED material is available I'm for it . I never changed my pricing when I switched and was able to make time (money) and nobody ever got a lesser job .the supply houses and manufacturers have plenty of money what about us. Let's face it most people (not all)can use a torch it's not that difficult


----------



## gforsell

I used Uponor (Wirsbo) for years. Switched to Viega about 3 years ago. Bought a Pro Press gun, including Viega pex heads, and haven't looked back. Stainless steel rings are pre-installed on fittings (no need to buy 
/stock/carry extra stuff). As for restriction issues...if you use pex to its fullest, you should have very few (if any) between fixtures and main supply lines.


----------



## rjbphd

gforsell said:


> I used Uponor (Wirsbo) for years. Switched to Viega about 3 years ago. Bought a Pro Press gun, including Viega pex heads, and haven't looked back. Stainless steel rings are pre-installed on fittings (no need to buy
> /stock/carry extra stuff). As for restriction issues...if you use pex to its fullest, you should have very few (if any) between fixtures and main supply lines.


 Who are you????


----------



## boatcaptplumber

it would be amazing if people read instructions.


----------



## gforsell

I'm me.


----------



## rjbphd

gforsell said:


> I'm me.


 Groans....


----------



## reedplumber

gforsell said:


> I'm me.


:face palm:


----------



## gforsell

What do you want from me?


----------



## plbgbiz

He posted an intro gents.


----------



## Protech

Crimp, hands down for residential potable water applications. Uponor has the lowest UV and chlorine resistance out of the bunch. Statistically, that's where most failures are going to come from.


----------



## easttexasplumb

I like Viega's pure flow system, no fumbling around with rings, if you got the fitting then you got the rings.


----------



## gforsell

Agreed. Much faster, and less stuff to drag through a crawl space.


----------



## gforsell

Also, crimp and charge the system, no need to wait.


----------



## BrendanStack

I have never had a problem with crimp pex, use it all the time and never had a problem with pressure or working in cold weather and I live in rural area in Ontario. I'd use cooper and pex before wirsbo.


----------



## rjbphd

BrendanStack said:


> I have never had a problem with crimp pex, use it all the time and never had a problem with pressure or working in cold weather and I live in rural area in Ontario. I'd use cooper and pex before wirsbo.


I won't be the first one on him.....


----------



## Protech

BrendanStack said:


> I have never had a problem with crimp pex, use it all the time and never had a problem with pressure or working in cold weather and I live in rural area in Ontario. I'd use cooper and pex before wirsbo.


Intro please.


----------



## Nikolai

I've used both extensively. Crimp style is the fastest and least expensive, but I think Uponor is a higher quality product. The Milwaukee expander makes life a lot easier. IMO, both have their ups and downs and I will continue to use them in their ideal situations.


----------



## Epox

Protech said:


> Crimp, hands down for residential potable water applications. Uponor has the lowest UV and chlorine resistance out of the bunch. Statistically, that's where most failures are going to come from.


Haven't heard of this, where is the breakdown, pipe or fittings? Brass or plastic fittings? 
I use both depending on the job, but imo Uponor is the more premium material because of the full bore and heavier duty fittings.


----------



## OldSchool

Epox said:


> Haven't heard of this, where is the breakdown, pipe or fittings? Brass or plastic fittings?
> I use both depending on the job, but imo Uponor is the more premium material because of the full bore and heavier duty fittings.


Upnor fittings are not superior to Rheau and Viega


----------



## Will

One thing that does worry me about Wirsbo/Uponor is all plastics will get brittle and less pliable over time. PVC, CPVC, PB, PEX, doesn't matter they all do it. Don't realy like the idea of the only thing holding that fitting together is the "memory" of the Wirsbo pipe and collor(which is just the same material as the pipe). Copper crimp to me same it will last longer as long as the brass fitting holds up.


----------



## Epox

OldSchool said:


> Upnor fittings are not superior to Rheau and Viega


I've never used them so have no opinion about them, not sure if they are even available locally.


Will said:


> One thing that does worry me about Wirsbo/Uponor is all plastics will get brittle and less pliable over time. PVC, CPVC, PB, PEX, doesn't matter they all do it. Don't realy like the idea of the only thing holding that fitting together is the "memory" of the Wirsbo pipe and collor(which is just the same material as the pipe). Copper crimp to me same it will last longer as long as the brass fitting holds up.


Uponor is not a new material, just to the U.S. I just know the brass especially in pex is really bad about not holding up here. Uponor brass fittings I've seen have held up really well though. Thicker and bulkier I guess.


----------



## Will

Epox said:


> I've never used them so have no opinion about them, not sure if they are even available locally.
> 
> Uponor is not a new material, just to the U.S. I just know the brass especially in pex is really bad about not holding up here. Uponor brass fittings I've seen have held up really well though. Thicker and bulkier I guess.



I'm no stranger to Uponor, in fact I use it from time to time. There Brass fittings are alot better quality then most brass crimp fittings out there, no question. There are aslo some good brass crimp fittings out there that are just as good as Uponors, like Sioux Chef or Veiga.


----------



## chuckscott

Either remind me of trailers (mobile castles) in the winter...


----------



## chuckscott

:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:


----------



## Gettinit

chuckscott said:


> :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:


Sweet, flow restrictors. :thumbup:


----------



## beachplumber

Epox said:


> Haven't heard of this, where is the breakdown, pipe or fittings? Brass or plastic fittings?
> I use both depending on the job, but imo Uponor is the more premium material because of the full bore and heavier duty fittings.


The brass fittings breakdown in the suv. The pipe breaks down in uv (sunlight)(just in case)


----------



## theplumbinator

All brands of pex are vulnerable to UV light. Its recommended to be stored out of sunlight and installed where sunlight is not present. All the guys you see zooming down.the road with a bundle of pex on the roof of their truck are not doin their customers any favors, there is a reason it is shipped in opaque boxes or black plastic wrap. If you do install outside or near a window its recommended to be protected by armor flex. Viega fittings are bronze not plastic or brass, they hold up best to any conditions, they dig up bronze tools and weapons out of the ground after being there hundreds of years many times still in useable condition, thats good enough for me.


----------



## Widdershins

theplumbinator said:


> All brands of pex are vulnerable to UV light. Its recommended to be stored out of sunlight and installed where sunlight is not present. All the guys you see zooming down.the road with a bundle of pex on the roof of their truck are not doin their customers any favors, there is a reason it is shipped in opaque boxes or black plastic wrap.


I drive by a jobsite on 39th out in Fremont all the time and see a coil of PEX sticking up out of the ground waiting for the rest of the water service to be dug -- It's been like that for months.

I've been tempted to stop by and talk to the Plumber or the GC about UV exposure several times, but can never find parking.


----------



## Protech

Epox said:


> Haven't heard of this, where is the breakdown, pipe or fittings? Brass or plastic fittings?
> I use both depending on the job, but imo Uponor is the more premium material because of the full bore and heavier duty fittings.


UV light breaks down pex pipe of any type. All pex has additives that protect it from UV but those additives break down themselves when exposed. When all of the additives are broken down from the UV the UV then attacks the PEX resin. Different types and brands have different types and amounts of UV blocking additives. Uponor has the lowest in the industry and that's why their warranty allows for the shortest exposure time out of any brand of pex due to the limitation of the amount they can add to the resin before crosslinking via the engle method. Chlorine oxidises PEX as well. Anti-oxidents are added to the resin to protect against this as well. Like the UV blockers, the antioxidants are consumed as they are exposed to oxidizers like free chlorine. The more antioxidants in the resin, the longer it can be exposed to chlorine at a given level. Again, because of the engle (type a) cross linking processes limitations on additive quantities, it has the lowest chlorine resistance.

Pex type B has no such limitations on pre-crosslinked additives and therefor can have much higher levels of chlorine and UV protection. Each brand of type B has different amounts of additives so your mileage may vary depending on which brand you use.

Makes sense?


----------



## Protech

beachplumber said:


> *The brass fittings breakdown in the suv*. The pipe breaks down in uv (sunlight)(just in case)


come again :confused1:


----------



## Protech

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.uponor-usa.com%2F~%2Fmedia%2FFiles%2FTechnical%2520Documents%2FPlumbing%2520resources%2FProPlumbingInstallGuide_10_07.aspx%3Fsc_lang%3Den&ei=qeVtULn4MoHRtAazjIGgBA&usg=AFQjCNGgI5HQsI8Fh2Ojzqjm6I8Wqw6S3Q&sig2=tT3nq-rD_Qyge2fkpmHuyA

Unponor type A pex: Ensure that exposure to sunlight during installation does
not exceed the *maximum recommended UV exposure time
of 30 days.*


http://www.plumbersurplus.com/pdf/05108.pdf

"Additionally, the Silane method affords greater flexibility and efficiency than
other methods. Additives like dyes (for producing colored tubing), antioxidant
stabilizers and ultraviolet (UV) stabilizers are critical to the benefits
and overall quality of our tubing. During Silane production, these additives
do not interfere with the material’s ability to cross-link (as in other methods)
so the optimal levels of each of these products are in every inch of
Zurn PEX that is installed, ensuring long term resistance to chemical and
oxidative degradation and very good service life for our products."

Zurn type B pex:
"Silane Method Zurn PEX demonstrates superior performance in these areas:
• High temperature and pressure resistance
• Life expectancy at elevated temperatures and pressures
• *Resistance to UV degradation (up to 6 months of direct exposure)*"

leakdetectionwinterhaven.com


----------



## theplumbinator

Widdershins said:


> I drive by a jobsite on 39th out in Fremont all the time and see a coil of PEX sticking up out of the ground waiting for the rest of the water service to be dug -- It's been like like that for months.
> 
> I've been tempted to stop by and talk to the Plumber or the GC about UV exposure several times, but can never find parking.


The problem is no one goes the counter day seminars at the supply house before buying and working with a new material anymore, they are boring and usually a lame sales pitch, but every once in a while they give you some usefull information about the product before you go out use it and make a mistake cause you thought you knew everything. When wirsbo first came out my boss at the time made all of us go to there training and get certified to install their aquapex line thats how I found out uv light kills pex. So its they either don't know, don't care, or done believe that pex can get a Sun burn per say, the same idiots probably believe global warming is something a hippy made up eventhough hundreds Of scientists all confirm the same evidence.


----------



## Widdershins

theplumbinator said:


> The problem is no one goes the counter day seminars at the supply house before buying and working with a new material anymore, they are boring and usually a lame sales pitch, but every once in a while they give you some usefull information about the product before you go out use it and make a mistake cause you thought you knew everything. When wirsbo first came out my boss at the time made all of us go to there training and get certified to install their aquapex line thats how I found out uv light kills pex. So its they either don't know, don't care, or done believe that pex can get a Sun burn per say, the same idiots probably believe global warming is something a hippy made up eventhough hundreds Of scientists all confirm the same evidence.


I remember when Uponor/Wirsbo first entered our market up here -- You couldn't even buy the stuff if you hadn't taken the instructional course and received your certification.


----------



## Nikolai

That's a pretty bold statement regarding global warming.


----------



## theplumbinator

Nikolai said:


> That's a pretty bold statement regarding global warming.


Maybe so but everyone is allowed to believe what they want. I dont know what science would have to gain by telling us lies. I would rather be safe than sorry. Besides all their cures for temperature change are probably things we as a responsible society should all be doing anyway.


----------



## AlbacoreShuffle

theplumbinator said:


> Maybe so but everyone is allowed to believe what they want.* I dont know what science would have to gain by telling us lies. *I would rather be safe than sorry. Besides all their cures for temperature change are probably things we as a responsible society should all be doing anyway.


"Science " isn't telling us anything.
Politicians are beating that drum and they have MILLIONS to gain by getting the public th believe their Bull Crap !


----------



## cbeck

theplumbinator said:


> The problem is no one goes the counter day seminars at the supply house before buying and working with a new material anymore, they are boring and usually a lame sales pitch, but every once in a while they give you some usefull information about the product before you go out use it and make a mistake cause you thought you knew everything. When wirsbo first came out my boss at the time made all of us go to there training and get certified to install their aquapex line thats how I found out uv light kills pex. So its they either don't know, don't care, or done believe that pex can get a Sun burn per say, the same idiots probably believe global warming is something a hippy made up eventhough hundreds Of scientists all confirm the same evidence.


I'm gonna guess that he is an Al Gore fan :laughing:


----------



## Protech

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> "Science " isn't telling us anything.
> Politicians are beating that drum and they have MILLIONS to gain by getting the public th believe their Bull Crap !


How many climatologists do you know?


----------



## AlbacoreShuffle

Protech said:


> How many climatologists do you know?


None,:no: but Im sticking to my story.:yes:


----------



## theplumbinator

cbeck said:


> I'm gonna guess that he is an Al Gore fan :laughing:


Hell no I hate that dummycrat, don't associate me with that idiot because I believe we should recycle, try and use less petroleum products so they are around longer, and stop relying on other countries to supply us when we have our own resources making them rich and us poor. The big corporations that own the politicians are the worst offenders of polution we have, but no one says anything about it. I hate bolth parties equally, they are looking out for themselves with evil intent while laughing at us as we make life easy for them. I think we are in a lot of trouble with four more years of the idiot we have now. As long as we keep our guns the American people should be somewhat safe, but I believe that Ahole knows this and that is on his agenda, I dare them to knock on my door. Dam im going off on a tangent again, weren't we talking about pex b4? LoL.


----------



## damnplumber

We have used Wirsbo in over 250 new construction homes before the crash in 2007. I still worry about rats eating through the pipe but haven't had but a few calls for repair or leaks over this amount of time. We have used Zurn crimp on occasion with no issues. We still use Wirsbo because I have a small fortune invested in the tools (battery and manual) and stock. But I'd rather use copper when possible.


----------



## Toolsmith

Crimp pex, fixed a blow out at a restaurant with the water still flooding out and they gave us our next 3 meals for for free


----------



## theplumbinator

Toolsmith said:


> Crimp pex, fixed a blow out at a restaurant with the water still flooding out and they gave us our next 3 meals for for free


...


----------

