# Need advise on how to deal with inspecter



## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

The town I live in just started inforcing plumbing codes so I did my first house and the insp wants 5 pounds of air on the drain line, well I wouldnt mind that but I used cell core pipe and i can not get it to hold air it plainly states on yhe pipe not for pressure. He says I can fill it with water but it gets really cold here and the day before he told me not to do water for fear of it freezing and busting. I have also been told that cell core pipe is made so thin that air can escape thru the pipe. The other problem I have is he says that he wont come and give me an ok on my drain and water till the mechanical is in so he can look at both at same time and says it is in code book that it has to be done that way but cant find it. this would'nt be an issue if the hvac people were right on my tail but sometimes it might be weeks before they come so that puts me having to wait when he makes salary and doesnt matter how many times he comes. Any help would be appreciated thanks in advance.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Eric,

There's a lot of advice to be had here but you better head to the intro section lickity split or the dogs will eat you for dinner.

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Code is a jumping off point, the minimum required. Use solid PVC, and learn how to spell Enforce.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

I'll answer your question after you post an intro in the introductions section.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Eric,
> 
> There's a lot of advice to be had here but you better head to the intro section lickity split or the dogs will eat you for dinner.
> 
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


 are you talking about an intro to the site if so sorry I will get to that in just one second


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## luv2plumb (Apr 30, 2010)

Ericw said:


> The town I live in just started inforcing plumbing codes so I did my first house and the insp wants 5 pounds of air on the drain line, well I wouldnt mind that but I used cell core pipe and i can not get it to hold air it plainly states on yhe pipe not for pressure. He says I can fill it with water but it gets really cold here and the day before he told me not to do water for fear of it freezing and busting. I have also been told that cell core pipe is made so thin that air can escape thru the pipe. The other problem I have is he says that he wont come and give me an ok on my drain and water till the mechanical is in so he can look at both at same time and says it is in code book that it has to be done that way but cant find it. this would'nt be an issue if the hvac people were right on my tail but sometimes it might be weeks before they come so that puts me having to wait when he makes salary and doesnt matter how many times he comes. Any help would be appreciated thanks in advance.


All I can say is WOW


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

luv2plumb said:


> All I can say is WOW


 about me or insp


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## luv2plumb (Apr 30, 2010)

About installing cell core pipe


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

First of all, don't install cellular core, it is absolute garbage. For the inspector, you'll have to water up, if it leaks you'll have to replace at least what's leaking. After inspection, you'll have to use a shop vac or air to remove water from traps so it won't freeze and blow that chitty pipe apart.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

After the HVAC people come and cover up half your work, it'll be hard to find the leak. I'd slip the inspector a $50 and beg for him to make 2 trips.


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

Cellcore is the industry standard where we are, never had any problems with it in the 20+ years using it as long as you don't leave it out in the sun. 

As far as air testing, it's no problem as long as your glued joints are good. 5psi for 15min I believe is all that required here but I could be wrong.

Good luck! Don't be afraid to stand up to the inspectors, just make sure you are respectful.


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## Everflow (Feb 1, 2010)

Testing ABS can be done we do it all the time. First pump it up and make sure our not leaking, tubs are my down fall. First the inter core of the pipe is thin, so if anyone has been rough with pipe throwing around dropping etc. it will crack that layer. The outer layer will not be broken. When you pump it up it will lose pressure so keep putting air to it until it holds. There are times when it is cold you are putting hot air from the air compressor as it cools you will see a drop in pressure, just pump it back up.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the intro


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

plumbpro said:


> After the HVAC people come and cover up half your work, it'll be hard to find the leak. I'd slip the inspector a $50 and beg for him to make 2 trips.


We use cellular core pipe in Louisiana all the time and have no leaks


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

why is cell core so bad the gc wants it and its cheaper so saves money


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

Our inspectors don't know a thing about plumbing. They just go off code book


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

Ericw said:


> why is cell core so bad the gc wants it and its cheaper so saves money


The inner layers arent solid its kinda like a sponge


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

i can keep air on for bout 12 mins but he wants me to either make another trip when he decides to inspect or make another trip which is crap cause that costs me $


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

Ericw said:


> i can keep air on for bout 12 mins but he wants me to either make another trip when he decides to inspect or make another trip which is crap cause that costs me $


Luke you said they just started so they have to justified their job


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## Everflow (Feb 1, 2010)

Just put water in it after he leaves let the water out, and put some RV antifreeze in the p-traps.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

who would you recomend talking to about this getting things changed or whatever and those of you who replied how do your insp do it do they check at same time or seperate


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

Everflow said:


> Just put water in it after he leaves let the water out, and put some RV antifreeze in the p-traps.


Glad we don't have to worry about that down here!


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

Ericw said:


> who would you recomend talking to about this getting things changed or whatever and those of you who replied how do your insp do it do they check at same time or seperate


Separate


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

Ericw said:


> why is cell core so bad the gc wants it and its cheaper so saves money


It's not that much cheaper than solid pipe. When it is cold it will develop a hairline crack from being rough housed. Years ago I used it some but I researched it and read some horror stories. I wouldn't use it again personally because I don't like to redo anything.


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## luv2plumb (Apr 30, 2010)

seperate


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

bkplumber said:


> Separate


Some one higher in office shake some hands and get to know all of them


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

bkplumber said:


> Some one higher in office shake some hands and get to know all of them


 only one higher that i didnt make mad would b the mayor there is 2 insp they were appointed by mayor so should i talk to him


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## bkplumber (Jan 24, 2011)

It couldn't hurt its your right


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*We've all been there*

The bottom line is this, you're gonna have to pony up and pass that test. Fill with water, it's easier to find the leak. Find the leak and repair. Once it holds for you let the water out. Plan a return trip to be there 1/2 hr or so ahead of re-inspection to have the test ready for him. May as well get used to it. Never fun if you have a leak. But always be respectful with them, deserved or not, they have the cards stacked against you. Remember they work for a living just like you do.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Ask inspector to bend over, then pucker up...Some of these inspectors get their jollies watching you scquirm. But you pretty much have to give 'em what they want if it's in the code.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

As far as cell core is concerned, yes it will hold an air test. I have plumbed literally hundreds of houses, townhomes, and condos with it. Some guys like to water test, and there is nothing wrong with that, but I prefer to air test.

If you haven't worked with the stuff a lot, I can give you a couple of pointers.

1. Be careful how you handle your pipe, especially in cold weather. It is prone to developing cracks in the inner layer.

2. Make sure you apply primer and glue to the cut ends of the pipe. This step will solve a lot of your problems with not holding pressure.

You're going to have to do what the inspector wants you to do, though mechanical and plumbing should be two separate inspections. It seldom works in your favor to argue with an inspector, he can make your life a living hell if he takes a notion to do so.

As far as cell core vs. solid, if a guy is a journeyman working for a plumbing contractor, he has to use the materials provided for him. He really doesn't have any say in the matter. For you guys who are shop owners who use only solid pipe, I salute you!:yes:


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## satelliteplumah (Jun 20, 2010)

plumbpro said:


> First of all, don't install cellular core, it is absolute garbage. For the inspector, you'll have to water up, if it leaks you'll have to replace at least what's leaking. After inspection, you'll have to use a shop vac or air to remove water from traps so it won't freeze and blow that chitty pipe apart.


 WTF are you people talking bout of course it will hold 5 lbs and of course I use it (but not in the dead cold as it gets brittle) all the testing ive done will hold fine if there is no leaks,I use pvc pressure caps and a four band clamp on my tester...if it drops ..there is a leak real simple! but if you use water and it leaks you have to drain it,dry it refill it, I also use a Co2 tank instead of compresser so im not hearing any extra hissing. Why not use it? its legal in Ma. once its installed it acts the same, why is it junk? its pvc coated inside and out,the glue holds fine and makes a nice "solvent weld" I guess in a tight economy you guys work for free because of plumbing morals,maybe we should use DWV copper for new const. that is even better ..Right


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

satelliteplumah said:


> WTF are you people talking bout of course it will hold 5 lbs and of course I use it (but not in the dead cold as it gets brittle) all the testing ive done will hold fine if there is no leaks,I use pvc pressure caps and a four band clamp on my tester...if it drops ..there is a leak real simple! but if you use water and it leaks you have to drain it,dry it refill it, I also use a Co2 tank instead of compresser so im not hearing any extra hissing. Why not use it? its legal in Ma. once its installed it acts the same, why is it junk? its pvc coated inside and out,the glue holds fine and makes a nice "solvent weld" I guess in a tight economy you guys work for free because of plumbing morals,maybe we should use DWV copper for new const. that is even better ..Right


It's legal here also, everywhere except the biggest municipality. If I had to use some, I'd use it in a crawl space, but not under a slab. Orangeberg was once code approved, and quest pex, and etc. Just because something is approved doesn't mean it's good, nor does it mean that you have to use it. It'll hold 5lbs if there are no leaks, I wouldn't put more than 5 lbs on it though.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

You're technically NOT supposed to air test ANY PVC. http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/techinfo.asp?htmlfile=TestPVCPipe.htm&ID=740 There's some information on air testing.


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## satelliteplumah (Jun 20, 2010)

I understand the danger of it and I beleive our code is actually 3 psi and i use a 5 lb gas guage. After enough ruffs without water mains,lugging barrels of water,pumping it in the 4 bath house only to get the 2nd floor tubs filled and then pop a clean out in the basement that the kid missed..you know there has to be an efficiant way. and its air :thumbup:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

satelliteplumah said:


> I understand the danger of it and I beleive our code is actually 3 psi and i use a 5 lb gas guage. After enough ruffs without water mains,lugging barrels of water,pumping it in the 4 bath house only to get the 2nd floor tubs filled and then pop a clean out in the basement that the kid missed..you know there has to be an efficiant way. and its air :thumbup:


Oh yeah, I just said you wern't _supposed_ to test with air. I didn't say I've never done it......:whistling2:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I use cellular core, and have I guess since it came in here. That being said I know it has weeknesses and I keep them in mind. It's cheaper, it's lighter thus easier to manhandle. Pvc has weaknesses too. Ive had pvc leak as much as cell core, maybe for different reasons unaware to me. Hearing that it's brittle in cold weather makes me mindful of yet something else to keep an eye on. I would love to see a deeper joint socket on dwv. I know why it's as shallow as it is, but for example 1 1/2 and 2" dwv fittings have 5/8" socket. Not much room for error. I use a chop saw for accurate square cuts on rough-ins.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

*Thanks for the job security!*

I've seen foam core used on pressurized potable several times in my area for repairs. Probably by a lovely construction crew using what they had on the truck. It was 1.5" and 2" on well water systems holding +/- 65 PSI. That stuff is used exclusively on DWV for residential here, and even on a lot of commercial. If it ever goes south like orangeburg it will make CPVC seem like a choice product.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

I've roughed in hundreds of houses with it when I was working in construction and only ever had 1 or 2 leaks from not using enough cement when there is only a little left in the bottom of the can. Seemed to be decent enough stuff. We shall see 20 or 30 years from now. Not sure where my money is on this one. So far no evidence or even horror stories, except for human errors.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Ericw said:


> The town I live in just started inforcing plumbing codes so I did my first house and the insp wants 5 pounds of air on the drain line, well I wouldnt mind that but I used cell core pipe and i can not get it to hold air it plainly states on yhe pipe not for pressure. He says I can fill it with water but it gets really cold here and the day before he told me not to do water for fear of it freezing and busting. *I have also been told that cell core pipe is made so thin that air can escape thru the pipe. *The other problem I have is he says that he wont come and give me an ok on my drain and water till the mechanical is in so he can look at both at same time and says it is in code book that it has to be done that way but cant find it. this would'nt be an issue if the hvac people were right on my tail but sometimes it might be weeks before they come so that puts me having to wait when he makes salary and doesnt matter how many times he comes. Any help would be appreciated thanks in advance.


:blink:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

You got leaks and they ain't in the pipe. Do they license plumbers there also :laughing:


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

I am tired of this drain every time I fix a leak I get 2 more that weren't there before and I have yet to find the first fitting on my drains that wasn't primed and glued. Someone who has been airing drains a while please tell me what I did wrong. I sprayed these spots before and they weren't leaking now they are what gives.


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

Ericw said:


> I am tired of this drain every time I fix a leak I get 2 more that weren't there before and I have yet to find the first fitting on my drains that wasn't primed and glued. Someone who has been airing drains a while please tell me what I did wrong. I sprayed these spots before and they weren't leaking now they are what gives.


Primer on ABS?? That's a new one to me. Maybe you're using PVC primer and glue? Are you really a plumber? 1st year guy? Any other journeymen in the company you can talk to?


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Yes PVC purple primer then gluing it and I been doing this 12 yrs but just now having to have inspection sorry I didn't specify figured you would know what primer was.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

We are just now catching up with the rest of the world here. I never used purple PVC primer before when it had to be tested we just glued it and it held is there a trick when you use that primer cause I noticed the pipe wants to push out so any advice other than are you sure your a plumber would be appreciated. Thanks


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Hold it together for about 30 sec, I guess the pushing out is a chemical reaction.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

first of all don't bribe any one and that's good advice for anything second you wouldn't last a second here and thirdly i have never even seen this crap and i can assure you i would never install it even where no inspection is required no matter what the gc or ho wanted


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

You must be stressing the other joints when you are trying to get the new fitting into place. Use a slip coupling, or a mission. Do not put stress on the rest of the piping.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

You know this is a great forum and I love all the advice but man are you guys really that insecure about your ability that you have to put someone else down and tell them they wouldn't last where you are or ask if they are sure they are plumbers I mean come on guys we ate all in this trade together just because some of us aren't master plumbers like others doesn't mean that we aren't plumbers I thought this was about helping each other


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks to those of you who had input I have learned some stuff about cell core and don't think I will use it anymore. The inspector in the town next to me emailed the codes writers and asked for clarification on air testing plastic pipes. They told him that by no means do the recommend air testing plastic that water test is only way on drains and water lines so now we have new thing to figure out


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

If you have a source of water, and your area is not as cold as some of these guys, a water test is no big deal.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

At this moment it is 24 outside but since he found out there is to be no air he doesn't care he said blow it out. I just wish they would make there mind up


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Ericw said:


> At this moment it is 24 outside but since he found out there is to be no air he doesn't care he said blow it out. I just wish they would make there mind up


What do you mean by '''blow it out"? Just keep going?


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Take a compressor and blow the water out the lines he said if I get to highest point I should be able to blow all water out lines on water lines and put antifreeze in p traps


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

It should just flow out. Suck your traps dry with a shop vac.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

It might all leak out.....


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Do you really think the water lines will just flow out because I'm not sure


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

No , not the water lines. What material did you use on the water lines?


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Cpvc


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

Sorry it takes so long for my reply I'm on Droid and driving


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

oooh.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

So wat is your recommendation on how to get h2o out of cpvc


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Air compressor... Be careful with your pressure on cold CPVC.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Ericw said:


> So wat is your recommendation on how to get h2o out of cpvc


 Cut it somewhere low.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

SlickRick said:


> Air compressor... Be careful with your pressure on cold CPVC.


And don't think your gonna do it with a 2 gal. pancake compressor.


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## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Solid core, foam core, Schedule 40, Schedule 30. It will all hold air if glued properly. If you have to air test your DWV, do as Greenscout said> Primer and glue the ends of the pipe. It works. As far as CPVC, I wouldn't hesitate air testing at 100 PSI in 10 degree weather or 100 degree weather. Thats just a lot of unnecessary work to water test in cold weather.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

The inspector in a other town told me he wasn't gonna allow air test because it puts that jurisdiction in a spot to get sued if it explodes. I am not sure this will ever hold up to many people will complain


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## Eric (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow this is plain ol nuts. Never heard of not having a choice on air or water test. 

If you have water in the cpvc, you have to use a good size compressor. We winterize houses here every year for customers that head south for the winter and we connect the compressor next to the water meter or well tank. Let the pressure build in the piping and open an end up until there's either no more water or air pressure, and do it again, then move to the next stub out, gotta do every one like that or water may be trapped somewhere. 

As far as the one inspection deal, as far as I'm concerned, 2-different contractors doing the work, 2-different contractors pulling each permit, can't see how your going to schedule it for a single inspection. He's making the money off the permits to go there for the inspections so it should be done when each guy is ready and they call him.

You finish 2-weeks ahead of the other guy and now your waiting for money cause you can't get an inspection?? Doesn't make sense to me.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

They lump all the inspections in one price and then tell u that there is 75 in there for the plumbing inspection I met with the 2 inspectors and the mayor and 2 other plumbers they pretty much said they were right we were wrong I'm gonna go to the next meeting on all this and see


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

easttexasplumb said:


> Cut it somewhere low.


That was funny..


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

RW Plumbing said:


> You're technically NOT supposed to air test ANY PVC. http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/techinfo.asp?htmlfile=TestPVCPipe.htm&ID=740 There's some information on air testing.


 
I rencently went to pull a permit here in town and had to sign a waiver on air testing, stating that I new the y dangers to me and others on the site. Been doing it for years never had a prob, but now after signing that if something did happen I doubt my insurrance Co. would back me. I geuss I'll be switching to water testing.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

As others have said the trick with cell core is to prime and glue the cut ends and you will have no leaks at the fittings. Now if you throw the pipe around and its cold good luck to you bc that stuff gets brittle


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

The pool guys have been testing pvc with air since Moby Dick was a minnow. I toughed out the entire thread. I have only air tested PVC DWV a couple of times. Specifically vac system on a dental office. Pipe was sch 40.

As far as testing PVC we have always been required to fill with water and put a 5 or 7 ft head on it. Purple primer on PVC when used properly will want to push back out of the fitting. A quarter turn of the pipe when seated in the fitting will help followed by holding it for a second or two. Not to mention I believe that is proper installation technique. 

I would not recommend going over the inspectors head or bribes (Luv2plumb LOL) . It sounds like the community you live in has recognized a revenue source. I would count on seeing them for a long time.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

What about your water lines do you airtest them if so what are you using to run your lines


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Ericw said:


> What about your water lines do you airtest them if so what are you using to run your lines


Here we have to airtest water to 50#. I use a hand pump. Mostly Pex, SS crimp rings...


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

I don't know what is gonna come of all this I just know they are just starting and we are all trying to learn and instead of them thinking there way is the only way they should get input from others that just my opinion


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## beavercreekhc (Mar 15, 2010)

We cannot test with air pressure on any drainage pvc system. They never check water lines but i always fill them with water during initial rough-in. Make sure you put strapping at every joint in the attic if you have an inspector like ours. He likes to come in and pound on the vent pipes. Pisses me off


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

here we test drainage with a 10' head of water


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

I use different ways to test water. Most of our inspectors require we test 25 pounds or so over street pressure. I use a small compressor to test when water is not on site yet, and a hydrostatic pump to test when water is on site. I usually put 125 psi on new systems.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Ericw said:


> I am tired of this drain every time I fix a leak I get 2 more that weren't there before and I have yet to find the first fitting on my drains that wasn't primed and glued. Someone who has been airing drains a while please tell me what I did wrong. I sprayed these spots before and they weren't leaking now they are what gives.




Just out of curiousity, in your 14 years plumbing, what did you use prior to cellcore? This sounds like your first experience with cellcore.


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## Ericw (Jan 25, 2011)

ckoch407 said:


> Just out of curiousity, in your 14 years plumbing, what did you use prior to cellcore? This sounds like your first experience with cellcore.


Just my first experience airing up cell core it is relatively new here we used to only use PVC but after this experience I think I will go back to regular pvc


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