# gas water heaters in attic



## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

1st of all I dont have a command of gas water heater issues. I have a 30 gal nat. whirlpool heater in an attic at a fast food place. The pilot was going out ...eventually I changed the gas control and all was fine for a while ( several months). Now at low temp it stays lit and turn it up to 140 it goes out ( the pilot ). Should I be looking at a flue issue or a valve issue?? or a gas supply issue??if its that easy to answer.


should this be in the boiler section?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Have you tried flushing the W/H? I have seen sediment cause some strange problems with control valves.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

One more question. Did you do a draft test on the flu (smoke) ?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I would say your pilot light is dirty.... take it apart and clean it out... you must have a lazy pilot flame


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Most of the time in restaurants it's like Old School says...dirty pilot or flame sensor/thermopile.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

slickrick said:


> One more question. Did you do a draft test on the flu (smoke) ?


 NO..I just looked at the flame when the burner is on and its blue and like its getting good air.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

stillaround said:


> NO..I just looked at the flame when the burner is on and its blue and like its getting good air.


May not be drafting properly though.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

When you say it stays lit on low, Is that with the burner fired up.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Yes it fires and heats up and the pilot then goes out...that is the report..Im going tomorrow ..the manager said they were running it lower temp so they wouldnt have to relight all the time..state insp. wanted 140 tmp so they turned it up and it goes out after running a while. Im not sure yet if this temp correlation is in fact whats happening..taking their word.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

tank temp has nothing to do with gas firing rate

it just runs longer to reach the temp


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

OK, on cross examination, when you changed the control valve did you drain the heater or airlock and do a quick change.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Quick change


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Quick change


If you get there and it will in fact stay lit on a lower setting. My money is on flushing. Sediment gets around the sensor and can cause problems like you are describing. Flushing and cleaning the burner and TC is always good.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I think sediment will just stop the heat transfer ... again the tank would run longer


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Not always the case. I have seen this before. It is possible.
We had a Craftmaster awhile back that had the same symptoms. We had changed the CV and TC with a quick change on the CV. When I checked my ego and called Crafmaster the first thing they ask me was if I had flushed the WH. It resolved the problem.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

What is more than likely happening is once the main burner ignites the pilot being weak or lazy lifts from the pilot burner or gets put out when the main burner turns of from temp control. Once the main burner goes out on temp there is no more piolt light and the pilot has to be relight....

If it was a flue issue the main burner would turn on and then go out. 

There could be a down draft also from the chimney putting out the pilot.

You will have to run start up test to see what is happening.

1. Is the pilot light?

2. Is the thermocouple covered by the pilot flame

3. Is the pilot blue and sharp

4. If so... on start up or call for heat look at the burner.

5. Does the main burner roll out?

6. Does the main burner flame lift off the burner?

7. Check the draft from the hood.

8. do a smoke test and see if the smoke rises into the draft hood.

9. If it is a restraunt check for negative pressure.

10. Exhaust over kitchen equipment causes excessive negative pressure.

11. resolve by changing tank location or direct vented or power vented tank

hope this helps a little


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

stillaround said:


> 1st of all I dont have a command of gas water heater issues. I have a 30 gal nat. whirlpool heater in an attic at a fast food place. The pilot was going out ...eventually I changed the gas control and all was fine for a while ( several months). Now at low temp it stays lit and turn it up to 140 it goes out ( the pilot ). Should I be looking at a flue issue or a valve issue?? or a gas supply issue??if its that easy to answer.
> 
> 
> should this be in the boiler section?


Is it the new FVIR style heater or the old style? If it's the FVIR heater then try cleaning the flame arrestor. If it's the old style make sure you have enough air and check to make sure the gas valves area all open fully and check the gas pressure. also check the thermo couple to see what reading you get on it.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Between all of our advise, you should just replace the heater.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Between all of our advise, you should just replace the heater.


that was suggestion 11 :laughing:


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## kellybhutchings (Jul 29, 2008)

make sure the screen on the bottom of the water heater is clean. You have to blow it out with about 90 psi.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

slickrick said:


> Between all of our advise, you should just replace the heater.


Ya and stay away from those Flameguard Crapola units...:whistling2:


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

very informative answers...thanks


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Doesn't Wp have a flame/heat sensor on them it could need replaced. has the red,black or is it white,black ? how old is the unit? anything over 10yrs I tell the customer with this being old and out of warranty, If I install a new one you would gain a 6 year warranty on tank n parts and of course our x amount of years of warranty on labor


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Any luck?

Looking forward to hearing what you found.......


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I went today..its an American heater....I lit the pilot ...turned thermostat on control high and low to watch it shut off and relight no problem...decided to do it tomorrow since it is lit.
1. the burner flame seems good
2. the pilot flame a bit wimpy but Ive seen worse
3. They claim the city was out and checked the flue and the hood effect
4. the pilot tube is a little flattened but it didnt seem that bad

Im going to drain it, pull the control and inspect for deposits, look inside at any build up and change the thermocouple...and then report back


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

I didn't have time to read through all 100+ posts....but if you are in TX or some equally hot area, the manufacturers have tech bulletins about pilot lights in the attic. The issue is, inadquate fresh air supply to the attic, and the hot temps and heat flow up the flue pipe can cause an oxygen deficit in the attic, which affects the pilot.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

It worked a couple years but that doesnt mean the air situation hasnt changed..so the higher temp in the waterheater adds to the updraft???/and starves out the attic for O2 a little worse than low temp? 

They keep the ceiling tile off right near the heater 3 feet away


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Another problem I'd wonder about is (as mentioned before) negative pressure. This can be caused by something like a big fan turning on in the morning and once it's stable it won't show up - just when it kicks on.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Herk said:


> Another problem I'd wonder about is (as mentioned before) negative pressure. This can be caused by something like a big fan turning on in the morning and once it's stable it won't show up - just when it kicks on.


The fan runs all day..but today I went there, it had stayed lit but when I poked my head in the ceiling area it was like a steam bath..pretty hot and thick. Im now wondering if I should cut in some makeup air. They said in a bad storm the pilot goes out but a bad storm here is pretty bad and that might not be abnormal.

I should check when it does kick on though.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Rheem for sure, and I thing BW, have tech bulletins on this subject. They specifically mention Texas....don't know why! Arizona is hot, but maybe the WH in the attic is more common over in TX

And yes, the solution is to improve ventilation...add soffit vents and gable vents or peak vents.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Actually, just the thought of water piping and heater in an attic is just, just..........foreign.:laughing:


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