# Broken ABS pipe



## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I have other pics but they won't load. Anyways not sure why this happened. It was in a basement at the base of a stack from upstairs. I had to open a wall in a cedar closet to make the repair


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)




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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

This calls for a complete re-pipe of all sanitary drains!


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Earthquake? Firecracker down the vent stack?


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Well that bathroom for sure if they would allow. I had to pull the toilet because it was rocking and found a bolt not in the flange. The flange is not even close to level. Very warped. They don't wanna open the ceiling for repair. Its a street 90 in the bottom of the flange if I remember correctly.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

No earthquakes, no kids. The customers said they rarely use that bathroom.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

dclarke said:


> No earthquakes, no kids. The customers said they rarely use that bathroom.


 and they never put grease down the drains. Somebody needs to come clean.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I wonder if the cleanout plug could have been screwed in any further... :laughing:

Did they have a clog and it froze up?

Any dripping faucets, leaking flappers, that might have made a slow drip which could have froze?


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

I just noticed the clean out now that you mention it. I'll bet homeowner rented a snake at some point and finally found a use for his pipe wrench at the same time.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

How old is the pipe? There were a few manufacturers, Centaur was one I believe, who produced substandard pipe some years ago which failed on numerous occasions. I believe they were using recycled rather than virgin resin.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

These people I believe were telling the truth. Its a huge house and they are pretty well off. Not the type to get dirty. They said the house is 30+ years old.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumbus said:


> How old is the pipe? There were a few manufacturers, Centaur was one I believe, who produced substandard pipe some years ago which failed on numerous occasions. I believe they were using recycled rather than virgin resin.


I think that was a west coast thing mostly...

Looks like the class action lawsuit settlement was over in 2010

Not that ABS is better anyplace else.... :laughing:

I doubt it was anything to do with that because it was typically a failure with cracking at a joint...
This looks like something blew it out from within which is why I'm thinking ice...


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Not saying freezing isn't impossible but it looks like its been leaking for awhile. The other things is it was in a partially finished basement where it was broken. The pipe didn't technically come down an outside wall either. It was ran just outside the wall and boxed in inside a closet. I had wondered if the house settled and broke it over time. Bad pipe....no idea. Its repaired with pvc using no hubs and functioning proper when I tested it.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Looks like lateral stress. It was in a bind.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

There is a couple subdivisions that used ABS pipe. And nearly everyone of those homes has had the ABS replaced due to when cabling the line the ABS would crack or shatter.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

SewerRatz said:


> There is a couple subdivisions that used ABS pipe. And nearly everyone of those homes has had the ABS replaced due to when cabling the line the ABS would crack or shatter.


That happened at my own house


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I could definitely see that being the issue. No idea if or when that drain backed up. I just thought it was odd to see it that. Broken up. I'll stick with PVC.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Plumbus said:


> How old is the pipe? There were a few manufacturers, Centaur was one I believe, who produced substandard pipe some years ago which failed on numerous occasions. I believe they were using recycled rather than virgin resin.


It was worse that that. They were using non ABS materials and calling it virgin regrind. What it really was was old tires, computer cases, telephones and all sorts of other trash. It was not the manufactures who did it though, it was suppler of the filler. The pipe in the pictures is not part of that problem.

Mark


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

ToUtahNow said:


> It was worse that that. They were using non ABS materials and calling it virgin regrind. What it really was was old tires, computer cases, telephones and all sorts of other trash. It was not the manufactures who did it though, it was suppler of the filler. The pipe in the pictures is not part of that problem.
> 
> Mark


I heard (from a home inspector actually) that Polaris was one of the manufacturers involved. Not sure if there is any truth just throwing it out there.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

love2surf927 said:


> I heard (from a home inspector actually) that Polaris was one of the manufacturers involved. Not sure if there is any truth just throwing it out there.


Polaris, Centaur, Phoenix, Gable and Apache were the five manufacturers involved. Plastic Processing, Inc. was the company in Texas who made the fake resin for the defective pipe. To avoid having the Plaintiff going after his personal assets, he became a witness against the manufacturers, distributors, supply houses, developers, plumbers and IAPMO.

Mark


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

dclarke said:


> I have other pics but they won't load. Anyways not sure why this happened. It was in a basement at the base of a stack from upstairs. I had to open a wall in a cedar closet to make the repair
> 
> View attachment 30169


Wow! I've never seen ABS shattered like that unless it was run over by a truck. Even then it usually just bends flat/oval kinda. Proper ABS isn't brittle like PVC.

As other posters have already said, it's probably some of that bad ABS made by the shady "manufacturers".


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I was just at that same house again yesterday to replace an outside faucet. She said she doesn't remember it ever being backed up or having a machine run through. Doesn't mean it never has as she married this man who already had the house but it means it was years ago if it happened.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

futz said:


> Wow! I've never seen ABS shattered like that unless it was run over by a truck. Even then it usually just bends flat/oval kinda. ABS isn't brittle like PVC.
> 
> As other posters have already said, it's probably some of that bad ABS made by the shady "manufacturers".


As I noted I have had ABS shatter. I was talking to my brother and he was telling me in the same subdivision he had clean out tees shatter as he was trying to unscrew the clean out plug.

These homes were built late 1960's early 1970's so not sure what brand pipe they had installed. Just ever since I been very shy dealing with ABS.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

ABS in the late 60s??


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

love2surf927 said:


> ABS in the late 60s??


ABS was first discovered in the 40's but was not used for pipe until the 50's. It wasn't used a lot at the time, but I remember it in the early 70's

Mark


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

ToUtahNow said:


> ABS was first discovered in the 40's but was not used for pipe until the 50's. It wasn't used a lot at the time, but I remember it in the early 70's
> 
> Mark


Wow I thought the earliest it was used was late 70s. Learn something everyday, good to know.


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

Illegal material on aisle 1


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## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

canada is plumbed with abs. I've never seen one failure.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I don't see what would make abs illegal. Just because it may not be used in your area doesn't make it garbage. Most garbage plumbing I see is poor workmanship/abuse causing failure not the material.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

dclarke said:


> I don't see what would make abs illegal. Just because it may not be used in your area doesn't make it garbage. Most garbage plumbing I see is poor workmanship/abuse causing failure not the material.


 flame spread rating in the fire codes makes it illegal here.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

For the first time ever I saw a guy with a length of it on his truck today. Everyone here uses PVC. I never questioned why PVC vs abs just use what was available. Didn't know about the flame spread rating.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Once upon a time, I was asked by another Plumber why I was carrying around two joints of ABS on my truck. He called me every kind of stupid hack in the book. It got real quiet when I asked him if he knew what the letters HDPE mean. :laughing: 

There were a lot of houses here that went up in the 70's and 80's with ABS. None of them self destructed and none of the homeowners died mysterious unexplainable deaths.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Are there requirements on ABS or PVC in the USA? Drainage and sewer piping in NPC (Canada) has to meet CSA 182.1 and CSA 181.2. I don't think any cell core ABS meets that standard. I've never come across ABS pipe that was at all brittle without a good reason. (Like major UV damage, extreme temperatures or physical stress). I've always found PVC to be MUCH more brittle.


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## Stptog (Jul 13, 2014)

ABS is approved here is Massachusetts, nothing but ABS in western part of the state, (where I live) however on the East coast they use PVC so who knows. I have never seen an ABS pipe do that, unless it was used as heating exhaust, which is an obvious no no but it has been done. ABS is so much easier to deal with, don't see why anyone who could use it, wouldn't. Just my two cents


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