# Scared to break the $100 mark...



## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm still t&m and have been at $92 for a while now. I just went up to 98 because I'm kind of scared to hit that 100 mark. Should I be?


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Send me your quick books file and I'll be able to answer that question


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

Unclog1776 said:


> Send me your quick books file and I'll be able to answer that question


I figured I'd get that. If my numbers worked out to 99, would you recommend 98 or 100? (I use even numbers so all my tickets always work out to even numbers.)


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Green Country said:


> ...I'm kind of scared to hit that 100 mark. Should I be?


No.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Green Country said:


> I figured I'd get that. If my numbers worked out to 99, would you recommend 98 or 100? (I use even numbers so all my tickets always work out to even numbers.)


126 sounds good then


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## 4Aces Plumbing (Aug 26, 2011)

Are you at or above capacity as far as workload?


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

4Aces Plumbing said:


> Are you at or above capacity as far as workload?


I'm above. I turn down as much work as I do. I should really be asking how to hire someone but I'm still kind of scared to take that step.


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

I meant to have this in the business section, not sure how I screwed that up!


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## 4Aces Plumbing (Aug 26, 2011)

Unclog1776 said:


> 126 sounds good then


If you turn down as much work as you do, you should listen to him^^

And yes I am dead serious, $105-$110min


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

4Aces Plumbing said:


> If you turn down as much work as you do, you should listen to him^^
> 
> And yes I am dead serious, $105-$110min


Yeah, I know one of the big companies here is at $104. A lot of them are going flat rate and using $150+ (from what I can figure). 

I guess I may as well try out $104 myself. Most of my customers don't even ask about the price and if they do I could just explain that it would be still be cheaper to pay me for one hour than three hours to some guy that just got his license and is only at 80. I'm not really interested in price shoppers anyway.

If I can make customers understand that I really do want what's best for them, I'm good at what I do, and I care because my name is on the line hopefully they'll agree that I'm worth more. 

I should really go flat rate.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

If I realized later than sooner that less than $100/hr wasn't going to work i would've probably sank. Who cares what the other companies are at. Listen to your numbers and you can't go wrong....well u know what i mean. I even began experimenting with my pricing and attempted to find the ceiling of what I could charge my commercial accounts. It got rediculous what I COULD charge, but I soon realized that as long as I stick with what I need to charge based in what my numbers tell me, the more consistent my business will be and should I need to re evaluate ill have a consistent and steady graph of what works or not.

BTW! I'm still north of $100.00 in fact my last company is just figuring out they need to be twice what they were 6 months ago which would put them around $150 +


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

$100 seems too low for any plumber in a big city. Not sure where you are.


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

With the company I work for, I'm told to maintain $175 an hr. plus materials no matter what. Try selling that all day.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

We are flat rate but I would guess we are at least $175 hr. That's the great thing about flat rate, take the price or leave it. No way in the world I send out a plumber on an 8 hour job for $800. 

David


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

dhal22 said:


> We are flat rate but I would guess we are at least $175 hr. That's the great thing about flat rate, take the price or leave it. No way in the world I send out a plumber on an 8 hour job for $800.
> 
> David


Yea... I start getting really miserable when my day falls below the $750-800 range... Like why did I get out of bed...

I feel good at about $1200...

And when I go over $1500 thats what I'm talkin about...


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

The service you provide is worth more than what you are charging. 

I've found the best way to make peace with my price or the need to increase is to look as a basic breakdown of the finances. I ask myself a few questions to help. 

1. Are we as profitable as I want?
2. Is my compensation where I truly want it to be? This includes actual pay, retirement, etc......
3. Is there enough money to cover desired growth? 

Don't need to ask much beyond these because if these were being met I wouldn't be looking at my numbers. 

Flat rate will help.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

In St. Louis some places flat rate is based on 275.00 a hour. And get it all day long. If you provide the service to match what your asking then you should have no problem getting it. I know we charge a lot for our service but we believe we are worth every penny if not more. Go for it.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Yea... I start getting really miserable when my day falls below the $750-800 range... Like why did I get out of bed... I feel good at about $1200... And when I go over $1500 thats what I'm talkin about...


A grand by noon or I'm a pissy little girl all afternoon


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

I am amazed at how much you guys get. We just went from 70-75 last year to offset the health insurance expenses from Obama care. Our main competing company is charging the same so it didn't hurt us too much. The big company's from the city's closest to us like roto rooter get 100.00 an hour but don't get much buisness here because of it. We're still old school here 75 an hour and 33% markup on material.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

All fast food restaurants average 3 minutes from the time of order to delivery of your burger meal. McDonald's, for example, charges you around $8 for a meal. 3 minutes times 20 = 1 hour. $8 dollars times 20 = $160, so your meal is served at a rate of $155 an hour of labor when you realize the materials (meat, bun, potatoes, soda, etc.) are around $5 dollars or less. 
We are similar, but a little more expensive, because as I'm sure you'll agree - your plumbing is much more important than a value meal...wouldn't you? 
And remember, we come to your home - the value meal does not. 

I cut and paste the above from another forum.
Most people don't realize how much these fast food restaurants charge per hour when you break it down.


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

Jon59901 said:


> With the company I work for, I'm told to maintain $175 an hr. plus materials no matter what. Try selling that all day.


Easy, try $220 plus materials all day, you do get the odd person that nearly faints when you tell them but most don't mind as they know what they are paying for.


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## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

In honor of MLK, with a plumbing twist. 

I have a dream. That dream is that one day good plumbers will charge what they are actually worth, not what others have convinced them they are worth.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

It's not just plumbers in this situation. My girlfriend goes to an MMA gym and they charge $125 a month. The owner used to charge $30. Month for karate classes and made no money but he didn't know his worth until he met another guy who got him to realize his value.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

dclarke said:


> It's not just plumbers in this situation. My girlfriend goes to an MMA gym and they charge $125 a month. The owner used to charge $30. Month for karate classes and made no money but he didn't know his worth until he met another guy who got him to realize his value.


Don't piss her off


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

sierra2000 said:


> All fast food restaurants average 3 minutes from the time of order to delivery of your burger meal. McDonald's, for example, charges you around $8 for a meal. 3 minutes times 20 = 1 hour. $8 dollars times 20 = $160, so your meal is served at a rate of $155 an hour of labor when you realize the materials (meat, bun, potatoes, soda, etc.) are around $5 dollars or less.
> We are similar, but a little more expensive, because as I'm sure you'll agree - your plumbing is much more important than a value meal...wouldn't you?
> And remember, we come to your home - the value meal does not.
> 
> ...


Great post, Sierra.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Green Country said:


> I figured I'd get that. If my numbers worked out to 99, would you recommend 98 or 100? (I use even numbers so all my tickets always work out to even numbers.)


How did you come up with your rate?

This thread>> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f4/bizbrew-more-than-owning-job-17477/ has an attachment that addresses the ridiculous hourly rate charged by Micky D's along with a few other factors. Maybe it will help. The key is you have to be convinced long before your customer ever will.


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

I should raise my hourly. Decided to raise first hour/ service call fee and bump up markup on material. We'll see.

Learning lots from the forum, business part sucks but do like making money


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Never be afraid to go up.

You should be scared shiotless of under charging for your services!


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm flat rate but for the last person that insisted on knowing I blurted out $175hr.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Here is another great comparison . Taxi rates here are $2.40 to sit down plus $2.40 a mile. A 60 mile trip at 60 mph will run you $146.40. If you got stuck in traffic and .40 a minute for the delay. It is fair to say we have a min. of an hour tied up in travel to and from a job. The only requirements to being a professional taxi driver is a valid drivers license and not be an ax killer. Compare that to the thousands of hours of training it takes to become a legit Plumber. Next time a customer complain about the cost of a Plumber, let them know a PLUMBER is a steal of a deal compared to how bad you get bent over by that non-English speaking taxi driver with bad breath and body odor only a sow could love. lol


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

sierra2000 said:


> All fast food restaurants average 3 minutes from the time of order to delivery of your burger meal. McDonald's, for example, charges you around $8 for a meal. 3 minutes times 20 = 1 hour. $8 dollars times 20 = $160, so your meal is served at a rate of $155 an hour of labor when you realize the materials (meat, bun, potatoes, soda, etc.) are around $5 dollars or less.
> We are similar, but a little more expensive, because as I'm sure you'll agree - your plumbing is much more important than a value meal...wouldn't you?
> And remember, we come to your home - the value meal does not.
> 
> ...


I love it.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Yea... I start getting really miserable when my day falls below the $750-800 range... Like why did I get out of bed...
> 
> I feel good at about $1200...
> 
> And when I go over $1500 thats what I'm talkin about...



When an unusual job pops up to price, I start with $1500 a day for the crew plus materials and equipment beyond basic hand and power tools. Jackhammer needed? Add a $100 or so. Tamp? the same. Generator, pumps, demo saw, all get an add on.

David


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Yea... I start getting really miserable when my day falls below the $750-800 range... Like why did I get out of bed...
> 
> I feel good at about $1200...
> 
> And when I go over $1500 thats what I'm talkin about...



Joke if you will, but I'm supposed to maintain a $1400 daily billing goal. Mind you I have to do it in 8 or less hours.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

dhal22 said:


> When an unusual job pops up to price, I start with $1500 a day for the crew plus materials and equipment beyond basic hand and power tools. Jackhammer needed? Add a $100 or so. Tamp? the same. Generator, pumps, demo saw, all get an add on.
> 
> 
> 
> David



I add in a lot more than $100 for the jackhammer, I haven't touched mine in over a year.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Jon59901 said:


> Joke if you will, but I'm supposed to maintain a $1400 daily billing goal. Mind you I have to do it in 8 or less hours.


Does that include material? Daily ticket $1400 or $1400 in labor only?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Jon59901 said:


> Joke if you will, but I'm supposed to maintain a $1400 daily billing goal. Mind you I have to do it in 8 or less hours.


It wasn't a joke...


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

sierra2000 said:


> Does that include material? Daily ticket $1400 or $1400 in labor only?



That's just labor.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Screw T&M go flat rate and start making some money.


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

On thing I did to help increase my prices and go flat rate was to stop itemizing invoices. An itemized invoice is almost an invite to question every line on the bill.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

marc76075 said:


> On thing I did to help increase my prices and go flat rate was to stop itemizing invoices. An itemized invoice is almost an invite to question every line on the bill.



I itemize the bill but out a total parts price instead of pricing everything individually. I'm stuck working with my employers who are scared to change.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

marc76075 said:


> On thing I did to help increase my prices and go flat rate was to stop itemizing invoices. An itemized invoice is almost an invite to question every line on the bill.


I will itemize each chunk of the job but not each individual thing. For example, I will put on an estimate to install water heater including miscellaneous parts and warranty costs X amount. The next line item would be attic install is X amount. Replace drain pan and drain lines is X amount. Are you saying you just put what the total job is including all of the particulars? 

I have given a lot of thought to doing that but it makes it a little bit easier to read on the invoice if I separate various tasks and I think it looks a little bit more legitimate instead of just shooting from the hip for pricing. I will agree with you, though, that that style does allow for discussion as far as individual task costs go but typically they are pretty easy to deal with.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I will itemize each chunk of the job but not each individual thing. For example, I will put on an estimate to install water heater including miscellaneous parts and warranty costs X amount. The next line item would be attic install is X amount. Replace drain pan and drain lines is X amount. Are you saying you just put what the total job is including all of the particulars?
> 
> I have given a lot of thought to doing that but it makes it a little bit easier to read on the invoice if I separate various tasks and I think it looks a little bit more legitimate instead of just shooting from the hip for pricing. I will agree with you, though, that that style does allow for discussion as far as individual task costs go but typically they are pretty easy to deal with.


If done like this, you have to charge sales tax. If you write "water heater install XX amount" no sales tax required. 

I started with TM and still like it however I'm starting to go to more flat rate. I think the change happened as I've gotten more confident with my timing and realizing what important and what's not when figuring out material cost.

My jetting fee is based off my 1/2 day labor rate.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> If done like this, you have to charge sales tax. If you write "water heater install XX amount" no sales tax required.
> 
> I started with TM and still like it however I'm starting to go to more flat rate. I think the change happened as I've gotten more confident with my timing and realizing what important and what's not when figuring out material cost.
> 
> My jetting fee is based off my 1/2 day labor rate.


Exactly! My last shop switched to single line item years ago a s gave only a single price that had our T&M in it. Saved thousands in resale taxes.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Jon59901 said:


> That's just labor.


Yeah. That price isn't surprising out here.


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I will itemize each chunk of the job but not each individual thing. For example, I will put on an estimate to install water heater including miscellaneous parts and warranty costs X amount. The next line item would be attic install is X amount. Replace drain pan and drain lines is X amount. Are you saying you just put what the total job is including all of the particulars?
> 
> I have given a lot of thought to doing that but it makes it a little bit easier to read on the invoice if I separate various tasks and I think it looks a little bit more legitimate instead of just shooting from the hip for pricing. I will agree with you, though, that that style does allow for discussion as far as individual task costs go but typically they are pretty easy to deal with.


 Back in the day 80% or more of my calls averaged 1 hour or less on the job. I dug out an OLD Mr Rooter flate rate book---- sinks ,easy sewers w cleanouts ,tubs you get the drift !!!! anyway 183.83 for most jobs unstopping a single drain (.For second drain I added approx. 75 to 85 bucks depending on job.) So I drew 1 line thru(the 183.83) to show customer and made the price 185 (not many but a few complained) but when I explained overhead, licenses
gas, insurance, uniforms, shoe booties, taxes ---anyway most understood that was 2001.---- Last price for a friend , that got back to me ,was a roto rooter easy job, flat driveway 2 way cleanout approx. 1 1/2 hrs on a sunday was 235 sounded very good to me!! So please guys don't let the 100 hold you back! I don't hear supply house talk anymore.


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## Gruvplumbing (Dec 26, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> How did you come up with your rate? This thread>> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f4/bizbrew-more-than-owning-job-17477/ has an attachment that addresses the ridiculous hourly rate charged by Micky D's along with a few other factors. Maybe it will help. The key is you have to be convinced long before your customer ever will.


I've tried to read that acouple of times biz. But the link is never there for me to click on it. Could you please pm it to me or tell me why I can't click on the link.


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

Best darn sewer, I put one line on the invoice if it's a water heater or another call working on one thing. "Replace water heater___***.xx". If I also do a toilet replacment at the same time I'll add another line" Replace toilet __***.xx". I have no problems with discussions with the home owners over billing , but I do that before I start work. I let them know what issues could arise and what those issues will add to the bill. They then sign the invoice with the estimate on it. I have yet to have any customer have a problem with it. I also tell potential customers the price range of the services they ask for on the phone before I go out, I don't like surprises and neither do customers.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm a little blown away by a $1400 a day quota just on labor. I've probably only had 15 days over the last year that I've made that much. 

What type of calls are guy running that you can charge that much?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> I'm a little blown away by a $1400 a day quota just on labor. I've probably only had 15 days over the last year that I've made that much.
> 
> What type of calls are guy running that you can charge that much?


I do drains & plumbing...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> I'm a little blown away by a $1400 a day quota just on labor. I've probably only had 15 days over the last year that I've made that much.
> 
> What type of calls are guy running that you can charge that much?



Markets differ. Our minimum goal is $1600 per truck, per day. Depending on the job, the price is higher.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Markets differ. Our minimum goal is $1600 per truck, per day. Depending on the job, the price is higher.



On labor..?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Wages, overhead, profit. The materials portion of COGS would be in addition to this.

From what little I know of the KC metro area, I would be that high (probably higher) there.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Here at my shop we want to be 6000.00 a week Not to hard to do. 
I did a job yesterday for 4500.00 and made my numbers through Thursday. So today is a icing on the cake. Last week I billed out 11,000. Now that was a great week. Only have about 6 weeks out of the year I do that. I average between 6-7 grand a week.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

My total sales for 2014 were just over 200k, or about $4000 per week. Profit broke down to about 85k. Plus I took at least 5 weeks off throughout the year.

Without adding a second truck I think it would be very difficult to do much more than that. I did about 150 water heaters and 40 Sump pumps last year, both have a much higher margin than standard plumbing jobs. 

For those that are averaging higher numbers, do you think you could maintain those figures if you only had 1 truck? I hate general plumbing jobs because I never know how long they will take which makes scheduling a challenge. 

I know the biggest company here in KC required their plumbers to do 5k per week if they want to keep their job. I've heard they lose a lot of plumbers because of that requirement.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> ...For those that are averaging higher numbers, do you think you could maintain those figures if you only had 1 truck?....


Yes, as long as I was not in the truck. Otherwise I would not get enough billable hours in without working all day in the field and then all night on non-wrench tasks.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Teach me your ways oh wise one...

Haha, maybe I need to bump up my prices on regular plumbing jobs. 

I know I'm very low on service entrance valves compared to some other competitors. Yesterday I did a service entrance and hosebibb for $280.








In the past I've charged $345 for that but this was an elderly couple that I installed a heater for. Would you guys be significantly higher for something like that?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Gruvplumbing said:


> I've tried to read that acouple of times biz. But the link is never there for me to click on it. Could you please pm it to me or tell me why I can't click on the link.


Check your PM inbox.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumberkc said:


> ...Would you guys be significantly higher for something like that?


With nothing to go on but the pics, $250-$350 seems reasonable to me. The key is to cultivate calls that are more than just a simple in/out. 

Did you offer to give the whole plumbing system a checkup while you were there? 
Was the disposer rusted? 
How did the water heater shutoff valve and relief valve look and operate? 
Was it up to current safety codes?
Have their drains been running okay or with a little slowness?
Are the emergence valves behind the clothes washer functioning?
When is the is the last time they had the building sewer inspected with a video camera?
Are any of the roof flashings showing sign of wear or cracks?
Did you ask their kidlets if they wanted to be Plumbers when they grow up?
Are the shutoff valves for the outside faucets working okay?
Does the ice-maker filter need to be changed out?
Do they have even have an ice-maker filter?
Do they like hot tea in the winter? 
Did you suggest a hot water dispenser at the kitchen sink?
- Now that she has one, MizBiz would revolt if it went away.
Are the toilets rock solid or loose?
Are the faucet aerators free flowing?
How's that emergency sump pit and pump look?
Did you take time to pet their dog?
Is the log lighter bent and rusted up from years of use?
Is the fireplace valve stem freshly lubricated with a new washer and checked for leaking at the packing nut?
Are they in the market for gas logs? Gonna need you to prep the piping.
Any corrosion on the p-trap slip nuts?
Tub pop-up or lever waste working okay?
Shower drain starting to get a buildup under the strainer?
How's the shower look/function?
Did you take time to pet their cat?
What is the static and flowing water pressure to the home?
Do they have an outside hydrant at every side of the house for convenience?
Has their lawn sprinkler backflow preventer been serviced?
Is the lawn sprinkler operational or did they turn it off due to leaks?
Are the gutter drains connected to the sanitary sewer?
Do the gutter/area drains flow properly?
Do the gutter/area drains need to be jetted annually or video inspected?
Do they need to have storm drains installed for their gutters that are washing out the flowerbed?
Is the dryer vent in a convenient location?
Is the dryer vent cleaned regularly to prevent a fire?
Have they considered residential fire sprinklers?
Did you bring their newspaper in from the driveway?
Did they ever fall in the bathroom/bath/shower?
Have you recommended safety (yet stylish) grab bars in key areas?
Have you recommended converting their dangerous bathtub to a safe shower or walk-in tub?
Is there a drain located close to their hot-tub or do they have to run a hose across the yard to the cleanout?
Do they have to run the hose to a floor drain or cleanout in the basement?
Are there accessible cleanouts in the basement and/or the backyard?
Is there a backwater valve installed to protect the basement from a city main backup?
Does the water meter have any minor leaks and is the valve operating okay?
Did you contact the city of KC to service the meter on your customer's behalf?
Did you offer to perform a meter leak-check on the gas piping system?
Did you offer to comeback every year to perform a safety checkup on the water heater?
Did you get her email address and ask for a positive review on your Facebook page or on Google?
Did you accept the drink of water offered and talk with your new friend for a moment while not working?


There is $1600 worth of legitimate work in there right now or in the future. You just have to ask. 

Nobody catches fish every time. But they *NEVER* catch when the nets stay in the boat.


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

Do you ever get people that push back at all the questions or are most people receptive? I do inspections and ask about certain things but no where near as long as that list. Am I missing oppurtunities?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

jmc12185 said:


> Do you ever get people that push back at all the questions or are most people receptive? I do inspections and ask about certain things but no where near as long as that list. Am I missing oppurtunities?


Of course they would push back....if I used all those questions on every call. I have never used them all on the same call. Notice the "Did you pet the cat?" question? Not everybody has a cat. The same can be said of the other questions.

My point is simply that these are just tools to be had in the sales toolbox. They don't fit every situation or every conversation. But they do need to be available just in case. I do not use Ridgid No.10 cutters or a recip saw on every job. But dang sure don't pull out of the shop without them. When you can get the conversation flowing with a customer, you never really know where it might lead. So having in mind things that are possible, helps us to be ready for the opportunity staring us in the face.

The point of the long list (and there is more that could be added), is opportunity. Are we seizing it or missing it?


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Petting their pussy isn't what they call me for to do. I've found that not a whole lot of people care what the plumber likes, dislikes or has thoughts about. They hire a plumber to do the job and get out.


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

Plumber said:


> Petting their pussy isn't what they call me for to do. I've found that not a whole lot of people care what the plumber likes, dislikes or has thoughts about. They hire a plumber to do the job and get out.


Yes but every situation is different and its all about reading the customer. By and large I find making a connection and gaining trust very important factors.

I've a $1800 daily goal, made $500, 000 last year for my company, got around 40 + online reviews. 
Iam by no means a super skilled plumber, iam good and strive to be great, to learn as much as possible etc but I believe gaining trust and building relstionships is the key to long term success.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Carcharodon said:


> Yes but every situation is different and its all about reading the customer. By and large I find making a connection and gaining trust very important factors.
> 
> I've a $1800 daily goal, made $500, 000 last year for my company, got around 40 + online reviews.
> Iam by no means a super skilled plumber, iam good and strive to be great, to learn as much as possible etc but I believe gaining trust and building relstionships is the key to long term success.



What is your average ticket?


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> What is your average ticket?


Last year my average ticket was $1300 with a 92% conversion rate, not sure what the industry norm is for conversion rates.
I get the benefit of getting a lot of install jobs just handed to me but I do my fair share of service through the year.


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

plumberkc said:


> I'm a little blown away by a $1400 a day quota just on labor. I've probably only had 15 days over the last year that I've made that much.
> 
> What type of calls are guy running that you can charge that much?



Strictly service. Anything from drain work to water heater install to leaking faucet. It's hard to get here. Although last week was my best yet. I did just shy of $12,500 billing. This week just under $2000. This was a bad bad week.


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

plumberkc said:


> Teach me your ways oh wise one...
> 
> Haha, maybe I need to bump up my prices on regular plumbing jobs.
> 
> ...



I would. Just a hose Bibb replacement is $525. I feel bad sometimes quoting that much for my work but on the same hand, that money is what pays the bills.


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## tims007 (Aug 31, 2013)

Jon59901 said:


> I would. Just a hose Bibb replacement is $525. I feel bad sometimes quoting that much for my work but on the same hand, that money is what pays the bills.


WOAH where are you located?


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

tims007 said:


> WOAH where are you located?



NW Montana. We are just about the highest priced company here.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

So Jon do you think you will significantly lower your rates when you go out on your own? 

I feel like it's easier for a larger, more established company, to charge such prices. You're probably also dealing with a different type of client. Somebody that is willing to hire a company that they are not necessarily familiar with. I think they take that risk, expecting that you will be competitively priced.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Jon59901 said:


> I would. Just a hose Bibb replacement is $525. I feel bad sometimes quoting that much for my work but on the same hand, that money is what pays the bills.


I'm not one to ever say anything about charging a lot but DAMN!!!! For a hose bib replacement. $500K is an impressive number though. I hope they're compensating you for that outstanding number.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Markets differ. Our minimum goal is $1600 per truck, per day. Depending on the job, the price is higher.














I worked for a shop where I was bringing in around $25,000 per month. One plumber did $40,000 in one month which was a near-record month or a record month.

John, I have a question. I've looked at your writings regarding what a service company's rates are comprised of. Perhaps I missed it, I understand the billable hours are going to be around 20 per week. What about excessive travel time? Does that added expense get rolled into the billable hour rate?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> ...What about excessive travel time? Does that added expense get rolled into the billable hour rate?


If the service call is a little outside our normal area (over an hour), I just increase the minimum diagnostic fee to balance the scales on the wage cost. If it is two hours or more, I will add quite a bit. Then overnight accommodations might have to added in as well.

But as a regular provision in the budget to determine the hourly rate, no. 

Having said that...

I look at our billable hour rate every so often. Critically at least once a year. All vehicle expenses (such as fuel) for the previous year are included. The fuel used on extended area driving is not broken out separate. I also pad the fuel number to allow for fluctuations in fuel price. 

For instance, I am working on these numbers right now. And you can bet your sweet bippy I am not using $1.56gal as a basis point.

So unless it is an extreme case, the only amount that the budget can't absorb is the wages. At the end of the day, it is not enough to worry about.


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

plumberkc said:


> So Jon do you think you will significantly lower your rates when you go out on your own?
> 
> I feel like it's easier for a larger, more established company, to charge such prices. You're probably also dealing with a different type of client. Somebody that is willing to hire a company that they are not necessarily familiar with. I think they take that risk, expecting that you will be competitively priced.



I have looked at several things pertaining to pricing. Thanks the the eloquent writing of Mr. Biz, I have figured my rate per hour and most of my flat rate pricing. I will definitely be lower than my current employer. I did a "special" job today and was asked if I increased my rate. I told her I had because prices are going up. When all was said and done I cleared $150 on a $250 job. Yes it was a small job and I was done in under an hour. I am finding it much easier to get the price I should be by using flat rate. There really is something to that.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Hey Jon59901 how much and what kind of advertising does your company do?


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Jon59901 said:


> I have looked at several things pertaining to pricing. Thanks the the eloquent writing of Mr. Biz, I have figured my rate per hour and most of my flat rate pricing. I will definitely be lower than my current employer. I did a "special" job today and was asked if I increased my rate. I told her I had because prices are going up. When all was said and done I cleared $150 on a $250 job. Yes it was a small job and I was done in under an hour. I am finding it much easier to get the price I should be by using flat rate. There really is something to that.



A hose Bibb is over 500. What's 250.00 a washer? More power to you. Our bibs are 325-375 depending if they need a shutoff replaced.


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

gear junkie said:


> Hey Jon59901 how much and what kind of advertising does your company do?



I'm not too sure. I'm not privy to that information. I know they use mailers with magnets quite a bit. Other than that I don't know. The only thing I know is when I have a customer give me a coupon, that discount is coming off my sales number. I hate coupons.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Jon59901 said:


> ...Thanks the the eloquent writing of Mr. Biz, I have figured my rate per hour and most of my flat rate pricing...


I know good ideas when I steal them. 

Thanks to Frank, Randall, Ellen, Gene, and countless other mentors bailing my sorry azz out of the fire all my life.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

sierra2000 said:


> I'm not one to ever say anything about charging a lot but DAMN!!!! For a hose bib replacement. $500K is an impressive number though. I hope they're compensating you for that outstanding number.


Don't forgrt that a hose bib in NW Montana is a frost free hose bibb that costs a lot more than what you use in Cali plus it usually requires opening a wall or going into a crawlspace to get to. And often times you have to solder on a new one or a new adapter. Replacing those are a lot more involved than replacing what we typically use which is a really just a boiler drain valve. Maybe you already knew this, Sierra, but I figured I would clarify considering the high price. I don't think that is too unreasonable for a frost free hose bib.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Don't forgrt that a hose bib in NW Montana is a frost free hose bibb that costs a lot more than what you use in Cali plus it usually requires opening a wall or going into a crawlspace to get to. And often times you have to solder on a new one or a new adapter. Replacing those are a lot more involved than replacing what we typically use which is a really just a boiler drain valve. Maybe you already knew this, Sierra, but I figured I would clarify considering the high price. I don't think that is too unreasonable for a frost free hose bib.


Ok. That makes more sense now.


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

I've been changing frost free hose bibbs for about $150...


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Green Country said:


> I've been changing frost free hose bibbs for about $150...


Sounds like you need to step yo game up! At least to $350.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I just went back and replaced one that I installed about a year ago. Even though it had plenty of slope it's still split out and cracked and when he turned on the water it ended up flooding his basement. Luckily there was a sump pump right below it. 
Definitely realized how much liability you can have with just installing a hose bibb. 

My biggest problem is that I discount jobs when I perform multiple task single visit. I'm going to try not to do that so much from here on out.


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

plumberkc said:


> I just went back and replaced one that I installed about a year ago. Even though it had plenty of slope it's still split out and cracked and when he turned on the water it ended up flooding his basement. Luckily there was a sump pump right below it.
> Definitely realized how much liability you can have with just installing a hose bibb.
> 
> My biggest problem is that I discount jobs when I perform multiple task single visit. I'm going to try not to do that so much from here on out.



I have had the same problem. You just have to ask the right questions to find out that they left the hose attached. I always tell people, always take the hose off when you're done even if you don't think it's going to freeze.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> I just went back and replaced one that I installed about a year ago. *Even though it had plenty of slope it's still split out and cracked* and when he turned on the water it ended up flooding his basement. Luckily there was a sump pump right below it.
> Definitely realized how much liability you can have with just installing a hose bibb.
> 
> My biggest problem is that I discount jobs when I perform multiple task single visit. I'm going to try not to do that so much from here on out.


A hose was left attached and it froze...
As long as it was properly pitched and the barrel length was sufficient to reach back into heated space the only way it could freeze would be to have had the customer leave a hose attached so it would not drain.

That liability is on the customer!


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## Jon59901 (Dec 8, 2013)

Redwood said:


> A hose was left attached and it froze...
> 
> As long as it was properly pitched and the barrel length was sufficient to reach back into heated space the only way it could freeze would be to have had the customer leave a hose attached so it would not drain.
> 
> ...



Ya' can't fix stupid...but you can charge them.


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Sounds like you need to step yo game up! At least to $350.


That's why I'm about to go flat rate. I'm fast enough now that I can replace one in less than an hour. It's not much more to replace one than it is to repair it (just the cost of the sillcock), but it's quite a bit more work. 

It's the same on other small stuff. I can repair 1 toilet or 3 and it's the same price in labor.


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