# Wet venting



## love2surf927

Can I wet vent off a toilet vent for a lavatory, the wording in the wet vent section of the code book is so confusing to me. The distance from toilet vent to lav is three feet. Im in California. In other words can I do this...


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## 100 Watt

You're a licensed plumber???
Hmmmm...
Wait for it...


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## plbgbiz

100watt...
Venting in general can be a real challenge for some of us to decipher in code terminology. I have to look it up before I get too technical and I didn't get my license from a cracker jack box. Let's give the guy a break.

luv2surf...
What is the 3" inlet below your flange?


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## plbgbiz

plbgbiz said:


> ....What is the 3" inlet below your flange?


Never mind, I guess that's an arrow showing pipe size.


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## plbgbiz

Where does the tub/shower tie in?


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## Airgap

It looks like an inlet, but I believe it's supposed to be an arrow....Maybe.


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## Airgap

Are you talking about venting the toilet off of the lav vent? I'm confused....


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## plbgbiz

As long as your flange is 12' or closer to the connection of the wet vent your fine. Your diagram is almost identical to Figure 909-1(4) in the IPC 2006 Commentary on wet vents.

The only difference is they show a shower connecting to the 3" santee via a side inlet. No other fixtures except that bathroom group can tie in to the wet vented portion of the pipe from the 3" satee up.

Hope that helps.


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## love2surf927

I'm almost sure I can just wanted to make sure I was reading the terminology correctly, excuse me for wanting to understand how to properly plumb my fixtures 100 watt, I guess you never had to ask any questions once you got your license, or maybe you just went ahead and did it the way you "THOUGHT" was right, if youre so qualified why dont you post an answer, and yes I am a licensed plumber, and you? I thought this was for professionals to share knowledge not patronize eachother.


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## love2surf927

Airgap said:


> It looks like an inlet, but I believe it's supposed to be an arrow....Maybe.


Sorry, yes I forgot the arrow.


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## love2surf927

plbgbiz said:


> Where does the tub/shower tie in?


Its a lavy.


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## plbgbiz

Keep in mind that wet venting in general is an area that many inspectors don't understand either. Be sure you go over your planned layout with the inspector and back it up with the code ahead of time. It may avoid a difficult conversation about a red tag on inspection day.


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## love2surf927

plbgbiz said:


> Keep in mind that wet venting in general is an area that many inspectors don't understand either. Be sure you go over your planned layout with the inspector and back it up with the code ahead of time. It may avoid a difficult conversation about a red tag on inspection day.


Thanks plbg biz you have been very helpful.


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## Tommy plumber

Your drawing looks good to me, but if you add a relief vent and tie it in at least 6" above the flood rim level of the lav, that should satisfy even the pickiest of inspectors.


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## plbgbiz

love2surf927 said:


> Its a lavy.


So, powder bath only?

That layout should pass and function just fine according to the IPC. I have no idea what that translates to in California.

According to the UPC 2006 908.1 no wet vent shall exceed 6' in developed length. I didn't see that in the IPC but that doesn't mean it's not there.

All fixtures must be on the same story.


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## user8031

Here is what I see. This is an individual as common vent.

It is not a vertical wet vent and it is not a horizontal wet vent. The fixtures appear to be on the same floor and the toilet is NOT the upper fixture, which is a good thing plus it is prohibited.

INDIVIDUAL AS COMMON.

You can rule out:

1)wet
2)circuit
3)Combi drain and vent
4)waste stack
5)individual

You also could go 1 1/2 all the way above the WC.


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## sikxsevn

love2surf927 said:


> I'm almost sure I can just wanted to make sure I was reading the terminology correctly, excuse me for wanting to understand how to properly plumb my fixtures 100 watt, I guess you never had to ask any questions once you got your license, or maybe you just went ahead and did it the way you "THOUGHT" was right, if youre so qualified why dont you post an answer, and yes I am a licensed plumber, and you? I thought this was for professionals to share knowledge not patronize eachother.


Before you get into a tizzy about some of the responses you received, do keep in mind this forum get a lot of traffic from DIYers and handy-hacks(which are not welcome here). Some of the other members were only feeling you out just to make sure you are an actual plumber, and not one of the fore-mentioned.

Sent from my iPhon


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## Qball415

Looks good to me. 3x2x3 low-heel stacked with a 2x1-1/2 san tee for a wet vented fixture will pass in Ca.


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## user8031

Tommy plumber said:


> Your drawing looks good to me, but if you add a relief vent and tie it in at least 6" above the flood rim level of the lav, that should satisfy even the pickiest of inspectors.


You got that right. Looks like they are individually vented now.


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## U666A

1-1/2" dry vent above the lav connection to the vertical wet vented portion.

Your drawing is textbook in Ontario!

:thumbup:

I know Kung Fu!


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## OldSchool

U666A said:


> 1-1/2" dry vent above the lav connection to the vertical wet vented portion.
> 
> Your drawing is textbook in Ontario!
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> I know Kung Fu!


Also looks fine to me just the way you drew it...:thumbup:

Add some more fixtures in there and you would have a modified stack vent


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## 100 Watt

Sorry Love2surf, I thought your question was something someone with a plumbing license should already know. 

I couldn't imagine hiring a licensed plumber to work for me and him not knowing how to properly vent a commode. Just saying


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## Qball415

100 Watt said:


> Sorry Love2surf, I thought your question was something someone with a plumbing license should already know.
> 
> I couldn't imagine hiring a licensed plumber to work for me and him not knowing how to properly vent a commode. Just saying


Sure he is.


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## cityplumbing

I think it's better to ask before you learn the hard way... Looks good to me but I'm not working out of Cali..

Don't worry about people busting your lemons for asking a question... When your a licenced plumber and your not sure of something you either look it up if your having trouble with interpreting the info then ask a fellow plumber or plumbers (like your trying to do) or ask your local inspector..


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## Tommy plumber

100 Watt said:


> Sorry Love2surf, I thought your question was something someone with a plumbing license should already know.
> 
> I couldn't imagine hiring a licensed plumber to work for me and him not knowing how to properly vent a commode. Just saying


 





I'm a licensed plumber but I don't know it all. To illustrate: I have a marriage license, but I certainly don't consider myself an expert in women.......:laughing:

Quite the contrary, I think the older I get, the more I realise that the less I know about the fairer sex....


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

I think to be a master means that you know the right questions to ask and you know where to find the right answer, code is interpretation and the plumbing industry has many aspects to it. So what might seem obvious to one plumber might be the first time this particular situation arose. 
Here (correct me if I'm wrong) if that was the last group on the riser it would be considered stack vented 

(I'm assuming Tommy's very correct method is not easily done?)


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## user8031

Your title should not be "Wet venting". Like I said, your drawing is a common vent. Least here it is.


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## Qball415

Which state do you currently reside Y45?


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## drtyhands

Qball415 said:


> Looks good to me. 3x2x3 low-heel stacked with a 2x1-1/2 san tee for a wet vented fixture will pass in Ca.


no.....


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## love2surf927

wyefortyfive said:


> Your title should not be "Wet venting". Like I said, your drawing is a common vent. Least here it is.


Isnt the toilet being wet vented? My book (2010 California Plumbing Code) says, 
"908.1.2 Size. The vertical piping between any two (2) consecutive
inlet levels shall be considered a wet-vented section. Each
wet-vented section shall be not less than one (1) pipe size exceeding
the required minimum waste pipe size of the upper fixture or
shall be one (1) pipe size exceeding the required minimum pipe
size for the sum of the fixture units served by such wet-vented
section, whichever is larger, but in no case less than two (2) inches. 

This is the source of my confusion.


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## drtyhands

love2surf927 said:


> Isnt the toilet being wet vented? My book (2010 California Plumbing Code) says,
> "908.1.2 Size. The vertical piping between any two (2) consecutive
> inlet levels shall be considered a wet-vented section. Each
> wet-vented section shall be not less than one (1) pipe size exceeding
> the required minimum waste pipe size of the upper fixture or
> shall be one (1) pipe size exceeding the required minimum pipe
> size for the sum of the fixture units served by such wet-vented
> section, whichever is larger, but in no case less than two (2) inches.
> 
> This is the source of my confusion.


 
3x2x1/1-2
San-Tee
es buenno


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## love2surf927

drtyhands said:


> 3x2x1/1-2
> San-Tee
> es buenno


???? what?


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## Tommy plumber

love2surf927 said:


> Isnt the toilet being wet vented?
> This is the source of my confusion.


 




Yes. In the original sketch, the toilet is vented by the same pipe that acts as a drain for the lav sink. 

That section of pipe that serves (2) functions, both as a vent for the W/C and a drain for the lav, is an example of a veritcal wet vent. The vent for the W/C is 'wetted' by the lav drain.

There are also horizontal wet vents.


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## Qball415

drtyhands said:


> no.....


Enlighten me please.


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## drtyhands

Qball415 said:


> Enlighten me please.


 Can't do it.

Furthest back code book I got is 2003.
The code as I understood it was read in class back in '85.
As we exercised it the minimum vent + 1 pipe size was how we designed it.I've been called out in the past for not adhering to oversizing the vent.


Now..I get to learn something.
Don't have to feel like I'm cheating when I bring a 2" out of a low heal up to a lav trying to save a 2x4 wall.


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## love2surf927

drtyhands said:


> Can't do it.
> 
> Furthest back code book I got is 2003.
> The code as I understood it was read in class back in '85.
> As we exercised it the minimum vent + 1 pipe size was how we designed it.I've been called out in the past for not adhering to oversizing the vent.
> 
> 
> Now..I get to learn something.
> Don't have to feel like I'm cheating when I bring a 2" out of a low heal up to a lav trying to save a 2x4 wall.


I dont understand what you are saying...


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## Qball415

Thanks. I was called on it once. Using the 3x2x3 low heel for wet vent, inspetcor wanted a 3" san tee with a 3x2 bushing in it, I don't see any difference between the two fittings if one is bushed down anyhow.


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## user8031

Qball415 said:


> Which state do you currently reside Y45?


Michigan


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## A-PLUMBER911

*wet venting*

:thumbup: yes, you can wet vent a toilet off a lavatory as long as you bring 3" up to the lav.


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## mccmech

A-PLUMBER911 said:


> :thumbup: yes, you can wet vent a toilet off a lavatory as long as you bring 3" up to the lav.



Are you serious, 3" up to the lav.? The lav. discharge is only 1 1/4. My understanding has always been that the wet vent has to be no less than 1/2 the size of the w/c branch. Therefore a 3" branch technically could be wet vented by 1 1/2. Of course I always run 2" from the lav to the w/c branch. Besides, what size walls do you guys down there build, 6"? Not trying to be a smart-ass just curious about the way things are done in different regions of the country.


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## OldSchool

The way it works here

The wet vent has to one size large than the dry would have been

Therefore a 1 1/2 dry vent for toilet would be a 2" wet vent

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## U666A

^^^

Correct.

With the newest code rev. (2006), it adds the ability to utilize a 1-1/2" WV, whereas 2" used to be the smallest pipe on the chart.

When a WC is involved though, 1-1/2" is OOTQ.

I know Kung Fu!


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## GREENPLUM

I can wet vent a bathroom group with 1 1/2


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## U666A

^^^
Wild! 

Here the continuous vent (above the most upstream connection to the wet vented portion ) would be 1-1/2" minimum, but the wet-vented portion would have to be 2"

Where are you located?


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## GREENPLUM

U666A said:


> ^^^
> Wild!
> 
> Here the continuous vent (above the most upstream connection to the wet vented portion ) would be 1-1/2" minimum, but the wet-vented portion would have to be 2"
> 
> *Where are you located?*


 Ciudad Juarez, Mexico


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## user8031

mccmech said:


> Are you serious, 3" up to the lav.? The lav. discharge is only 1 1/4. My understanding has always been that the wet vent has to be no less than 1/2 the size of the w/c branch. Therefore a 3" branch technically could be wet vented by 1 1/2. Of course I always run 2" from the lav to the w/c branch. Besides, what size walls do you guys down there build, 6"? Not trying to be a smart-ass just curious about the way things are done in different regions of the country.


The trap of a lav is 1 1/4. The drain MUST be 1 1/2 (2" for back to back on a wet vent). The dry vent off the lav, serving the wet vent must be 1/2 the size.So if you have a W/C, you will have a 1 1/2 dry vent extending from the lavs. Your wet vent actually starts at the interconnection slightly below the sanitary tee receiving the lavs.

If you had 2 lavs and 2 lavs only, you could still have 1 1/4 traps, 1 1/2 drains and 1 1/4 dry vent extending from the lavs. Although this is considered a common vent.

By the way, in any wet vent system, technically you cannot "wet vent" any lav, they are always individually or common vented. They are just an extension of the wet vent system. You are never really venting anything "off the lavs". Wet venting is venting on the conception of oversized piping and the low probability of all fixtures at the same time.

This is why for example, back to back lavs on a wet vent system must have a 2" drain, to where back to back on common vent can be served by 1 1/2 drain.

Vent sizing is easy. There are only 2 sections that talk about sizing vents in the code book, least here in Michigan. We adapt from the 2009 IPC currently. Chapter 916.1 and 916.2 Covers ALL OF IT.

As far as venting, I always know I have 6 possible ways to vent something.

1) Individual 2) Common 3) Wet Vent 4) Waste Stack vent 5) circuit Vent 6) Combination D&V


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## user8031

A-PLUMBER911 said:


> :thumbup: yes, you can wet vent a toilet off a lavatory as long as you bring 3" up to the lav.


You are wrong. And I am going to go ahead and say that for any state, any city, municipality would never require that.

Are you a plumber?


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## mccmech

wyefortyfive said:


> The trap of a lav is 1 1/4. The drain MUST be 1 1/2 (2" for back to back on a wet vent). The dry vent off the lav, serving the wet vent must be 1/2 the size.So if you have a W/C, you will have a 1 1/2 dry vent extending from the lavs. Your wet vent actually starts at the interconnection slightly below the sanitary tee receiving the lavs.
> 
> If you had 2 lavs and 2 lavs only, you could still have 1 1/4 traps, 1 1/2 drains and 1 1/4 dry vent extending from the lavs. Although this is considered a common vent.
> 
> By the way, in any wet vent system, technically you cannot "wet vent" any lav, they are always individually or common vented. They are just an extension of the wet vent system. You are never really venting anything "off the lavs". Wet venting is venting on the conception of oversized piping and the low probability of all fixtures at the same time.
> 
> This is why for example, back to back lavs on a wet vent system must have a 2" drain, to where back to back on common vent can be served by 1 1/2 drain.
> 
> Vent sizing is easy. There are only 2 sections that talk about sizing vents in the code book, least here in Michigan. We adapt from the 2009 IPC currently. Chapter 916.1 and 916.2 Covers ALL OF IT.
> 
> As far as venting, I always know I have 6 possible ways to vent something.
> 
> 1) Individual 2) Common 3) Wet Vent 4) Waste Stack vent 5) circuit Vent 6) Combination D&V



The trap of a lav. is "not 1 1/4" ". The tailpiece is. The trap can be 1 1/4 or 1 1/2. My post point was that I find it hard to believe 3" has to be run up to a single lav., or even double lav. in ANY application.


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## OldSchool

mccmech said:


> The trap of a lav. is "not 1 1/4" ". The tailpiece is. The trap can be 1 1/4 or 1 1/2. My post point was that I find it hard to believe 3" has to be run up to a single lav., or even double lav. in ANY application.


Give him a break

He is young and full of know it all...

When he grows up .... he will realize it was the other way around :laughing:


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## user8031

mccmech said:


> The trap of a lav. is "not 1 1/4" ". The tailpiece is. The trap can be 1 1/4 or 1 1/2. My post point was that I find it hard to believe 3" has to be run up to a single lav., or even double lav. in ANY application.


Clearly you did not understand what I wrote. Everything i said is 100% correct.


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## user8031

OldSchool said:


> Give him a break
> 
> He is young and full of know it all...
> 
> When he grows up .... he will realize it was the other way around :laughing:


Maybe YOU will realize it is the other way around. Like I just said, and stated earlier- Everything I wrote is right on the money!


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## OldSchool

wyefortyfive said:


> The trap of a lav is 1 1/4. The drain MUST be 1 1/2 (2" for back to back on a wet vent). The dry vent off the lav, serving the wet vent must be 1/2 the size.So if you have a W/C, you will have a 1 1/2 dry vent extending from the lavs. Your wet vent actually starts at the interconnection slightly below the sanitary tee receiving the lavs.
> 
> If you had 2 lavs and 2 lavs only, you could still have 1 1/4 traps, 1 1/2 drains and 1 1/4 dry vent extending from the lavs. Although this is considered a common vent.
> 
> By the way, in any wet vent system, technically you cannot "wet vent" any lav, they are always individually or common vented. They are just an extension of the wet vent system. You are never really venting anything "off the lavs". Wet venting is venting on the conception of oversized piping and the low probability of all fixtures at the same time.
> 
> This is why for example, back to back lavs on a wet vent system must have a 2" drain, to where back to back on common vent can be served by 1 1/2 drain.
> 
> Vent sizing is easy. There are only 2 sections that talk about sizing vents in the code book, least here in Michigan. We adapt from the 2009 IPC currently. Chapter 916.1 and 916.2 Covers ALL OF IT.
> 
> As far as venting, I always know I have 6 possible ways to vent something.
> 
> 1) Individual 2) Common 3) Wet Vent 4) Waste Stack vent 5) circuit Vent 6) Combination D&V


Might be on the money in your code book... but not every where else on the planet..

Drains are sized by fixture units of the fixture .... two tables .... one for horizontal and one for vertical.

You can dump a lot more into a vertical pipe or stack and less in a horizontal drain

It all depends how the plumbing is configured ... i.e. if you had several sinks or lavs dropping straight down several floors the pipe would be smaller than if it was catching a bunch of fixtures go to the horizontal right away...

Under our code ...we can wet vent one lav from one floor to the other... that is part of the new code we adopted..{By the way, in any wet vent system, technically you cannot "wet vent" any lav, they are always individually or common vented.}

I disagree with this statement {Wet venting is venting on the conception of oversized piping and the low probability of all fixtures at the same time.}

there is no low probabilty... it sized that it all can run..

{This is why for example, back to back lavs on a wet vent system must have a 2" drain, to where back to back on common vent can be served by 1 1/2 drain.}

This would only apply to wet venting a WC.... pipe would remain 1 1/2 if you were wet venting a shower

You forgot venting #7...... AAV


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## sidekick

Yes Youre correct in the way that i see on youre diagram. just continue with the vent at 2" and remember that youre lavatory trap arm shall not exceed over 3' 6".


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## U666A

OldSchool said:


> Might be on the money in your code book... but not every where else on the planet..
> 
> Drains are sized by fixture units of the fixture .... two tables .... one for horizontal and one for vertical.
> 
> You can dump a lot more into a vertical pipe or stack and less in a horizontal drain
> 
> It all depends how the plumbing is configured ... i.e. if you had several sinks or lavs dropping straight down several floors the pipe would be smaller than if it was catching a bunch of fixtures go to the horizontal right away...
> 
> Under our code ...we can wet vent one lav from one floor to the other... that is part of the new code we adopted..{By the way, in any wet vent system, technically you cannot "wet vent" any lav, they are always individually or common vented.}
> 
> I disagree with this statement {Wet venting is venting on the conception of oversized piping and the low probability of all fixtures at the same time.}
> 
> there is no low probabilty... it sized that it all can run..
> 
> {This is why for example, back to back lavs on a wet vent system must have a 2" drain, to where back to back on common vent can be served by 1 1/2 drain.}
> 
> This would only apply to wet venting a WC.... pipe would remain 1 1/2 if you were wet venting a shower
> 
> You forgot venting #7...... AAV


Correct again OS, I believe that what they call "common vents", we call "dual vents".


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## user8031

OldSchool said:


> You forgot venting #7...... AAV


The AAV is NOT a venting method. May be considered one where you are at. I agree, municipalities differ.

If you AAV an island sink, that is an "Individual" vent.

If you AAV a Lav (s) on a wet vent, you simply individual or common vented the lavs serving the wet vent.

...etc

90% of plumbers and 100% inspectors will tell you that the AAV or "AAV'ing" is NOT a venting method.


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## OldSchool

wyefortyfive said:


> The AAV is NOT a venting method. May be considered one where you are at. I agree, municipalities differ.
> 
> If you AAV an island sink, that is an "Individual" vent.
> 
> If you AAV a Lav (s) on a wet vent, you simply individual or common vented the lavs serving the wet vent.
> 
> ...etc
> 
> 90% of plumbers and 100% inspectors will tell you that the AAV or "AAV'ing" is NOT a venting method.


AAV is under most of the plumbing codes every where

if it isn't a method of venting .... then what is the V for?


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## user8031

OldSchool said:


> AAV is under most of the plumbing codes every where
> 
> if it isn't a method of venting .... then what is the V for?


Is there a PZ canada division? The home of ABS?:laughing:

It is NOT a venting method! Don't believe me? Ask around on here!

There are up to 6 venting methods that exist in plumbing. Period.

By the way...AAV are permitted here too....still not considered an actual venting method. GEESH.

It will still go back to : Individual, Common, Wet, Circuit, Waste Stack Vent, Combination D&V


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## JL Martinez

I am a plumber in California; if needed I can be of assistance in wet venting.


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## drtyhands

JL Martinez said:


> I am a plumber in California; if needed I can be of assistance in wet venting.


 Thanks,
Guys are gonna hit you up for intro.
Where you at?


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## OldSchool

wyefortyfive said:


> Is there a PZ canada division? The home of ABS?:laughing:
> 
> It is NOT a venting method! Don't believe me? Ask around on here!
> 
> There are up to 6 venting methods that exist in plumbing. Period.
> 
> By the way...AAV are permitted here too....still not considered an actual venting method. GEESH.
> 
> It will still go back to : Individual, Common, Wet, Circuit, Waste Stack Vent, Combination D&V


There is also loop and circuit, also relief vent... so you dont know everything even though you are so determined to demonstrate that you do..

AAV has been approved under the code... so there for it is a venting method.... http://www.plumbingzone.com/f6/studor-vent-code-15456/

The thing is I don't agree ... that it what we should do as plumbers, but it is a fact......


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## JL Martinez

*Re- Wet venting*

I'm located in southern California, and this is my first time on any type of web site.


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## drtyhands

JL Martinez said:


> I'm located in southern California, and this is my first time on any type of web site.


There is a section of the forum where people can let us how to greet them.

What type of plumbing,experience in what areas,whatever you want.No big deal.Just a quickie is good enuff.

Welcome,looking forward to hear more of your points of interest.


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## JL Martinez

*Re- Wet venting*

*Basic work history:*

I've done the residential, commercial and industrial drain cleaning. Installed and serviced Ray Pack boilers, commercial 200K and higher Rheem, Ruud, American, A.O Smith water heaters. I've done T.I in high rises, residential remodels, bath tub and shower installations. I feel that my strongest suit is in service and repair. I 've been a Supervisor, Crew Leader, Trainer, and my favorite just a plumber.

*Licenses:*

I hold a PHCC Journey Level Plumbing Certification, C36 License, certified in back-flow testing through ABPA and AWWA; certified in Cross Connection Control also through ABPA and AWWA; Hold a California water distribution (D3) certification through California Department of Public Health, and have past the water treatment certification (T2) also through California Department of Public Health "waiting on certificate to be delivered". Finnally, I have a certificate of completion through Cuyamaca College in water distribution, and also hold a graduate certification in Plumbing through Job Corps.


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## user8031

OldSchool said:


> There is also loop and circuit, also relief vent... so you dont know everything even though you are so determined to demonstrate that you do..
> 
> AAV has been approved under the code... so there for it is a venting method.... http://www.plumbingzone.com/f6/studor-vent-code-15456/
> 
> The thing is I don't agree ... that it what we should do as plumbers, but it is a fact......


I already named circuit. Second..you cannot 'relief vent ' any fixture. It falls under the category of one of the SIX venting methods!!!!!!! A relief vent is either on a CIRCUIT VENT (4 or more w/c's AND fixtures discharging above) or a drainage stack with 10 or more branch intervals!! a loop vent serves as am INDIVIDUAL/Common VENT!!!!!

Either Canada has different teachings or you are not the plumber you think you are.

I am going to say this again...there are up to 6 and only SIX venting methods that EXIST!!

1) Individual
2) Common
3) Wet (Horizontal or wet)
4) Circuit
5) Waste Stack vent
6) Combination D&V
loops, Islands, relief, AAV, Branch, Yoke, Vent Stack...etc are NOT fixture venting methods!


Tell me this-
How do you "relief vent" something without one of the 6 venting methods i named?


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## user8031

OldSchool said:


> AAV is under most of the plumbing codes every where
> 
> if it isn't a method of venting .... then what is the V for?


What is the "V" for??

Lets see....

Air
Admittance
VALVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not Air Admittance Vent!!

my answer= Valve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way...."Studor Vent' is a brand and a brand only!! It is an Air Admittance VALVE!!


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## user8031

JL Martinez said:


> I am a plumber in California; if needed I can be of assistance in wet venting.


Your assistance is not needed. If it was, you would have been asked.

Welcome to PZ by the way/


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## JL Martinez

I see what your are saying about the air admittance valves; however, in California they are restricted to mobile home use, and in that it is often frowned upon. Example, City of National City, in San Diego, prohibits the use of an air admittance valves in either mobile homes, residential construction, and commercial. However, the county of San Diego depending on the inspector, may allow the use of an air admittance valve on a mobile home depending if structural conditions do not allow for a standard piped vent. It is always good to know general codes; furthermore, it is always better to have the latest up to date code that your city and state abide. Remember that the authority having jurisdiction will always have the last say, and that is why permits are pulled.


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## Redwood

wyefortyfive said:


> What is the "V" for??


Vomit!

Hack plumbing makes me want to vomit!


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## Mississippiplum

Rv manufactures love aav's every rv has atleast 2 of em

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## plbgbiz

wyefortyfive said:


> The trap of a lav is 1 1/4. The drain MUST be 1 1/2......


The portion of a building drain that has only one lavatory discharging into it is carrying 1 dfu, and as such is only required to be 1-1/4" pipe. Not many of us put in 1-1/4" pipe because around here it costs more than 1-1/2" and DWV fittings are not readily available for 1-1/4".

Even with a tub tied in, the minimum drain size is still only 1-1/2".

The upsizing for wet vents can usually be done out your hip pocket by just going up one pipe size but technically speaking (and everyone seems to be doing that around here lately) that too is based on dfu's in table 909.3.

What happens on back to back installs is not likely to be relevant in wet venting since back to back lavs aren't likely to be in the same bathroom group. Possible, but not likely.


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## JL Martinez

*Re- Wet venting*

Although air admittance valves are installed I would discourage their use, because they are often installed in locations where if the valve fails, sewer gas has the potential to enter the structure; home or work. Air admittance valves do what they say, allow air to enter not out; therefore, when they fail they allow gasses to flow out, as if it were an open pipe indoors. _Not Safe _having methane inside of structures.... Remember, we as plumbers, are responsible for the health and sanitation of the public.


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## plbgbiz

Redwood said:


> Vomit!
> 
> Hack plumbing makes me want to vomit!


And he's back! :clap:


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## plbgbiz

Now...what was this thread about? :wacko:


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## JL Martinez

Yeah I know wet venting, but when air admittance valves are being used instead of regular venting I had to say something, I mean he even describes in his pictures using one, check his pictures...


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## plbgbiz

JL Martinez said:


> ....I mean he even describes in his pictures using one, check his pictures...


What pictures? Who?

What does the use of a code approved AAV have to do with wet venting?


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## JL Martinez

plbgbiz said:


> What pictures? Who?
> 
> What does the use of a code approved AAV have to do with wet venting?




* "wyefortyfive" check his pictures. 


* Wet venting has nothing to do with "AAV"; however, the "AAV" is mentioned as if it is compatible to regular venting. California plumbing inspectors are against the "AAV"; however special circumstances are warranted only with their approval in most cases counties with mobile homes that have their plumbing grand fathered-in.


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## OldSchool

wyefortyfive said:


> What is the "V" for??
> 
> Lets see....
> 
> Air
> Admittance
> VALVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Not Air Admittance Vent!!
> 
> my answer= Valve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> By the way...."Studor Vent' is a brand and a brand only!! It is an Air Admittance VALVE!!


Actually the term up here is used quit often 

Automatic Air Vent or cheater vent or auto vent is another term 

I noticed that on here with every one from different places have different terms.


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## Redwood

No Doubt about it...

Studor Vents, and all other brands of AAV'a are....


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## OldSchool

wyefortyfive said:


> I already named circuit. Second..you cannot 'relief vent ' any fixture. It falls under the category of one of the SIX venting methods!!!!!!! A relief vent is either on a CIRCUIT VENT (4 or more w/c's AND fixtures discharging above) or a drainage stack with 10 or more branch intervals!! a loop vent serves as am INDIVIDUAL/Common VENT!!!!!
> 
> Either Canada has different teachings or you are not the plumber you think you are.
> 
> I am going to say this again...there are up to 6 and only SIX venting methods that EXIST!!
> 
> 1) Individual
> 2) Common
> 3) Wet (Horizontal or wet)
> 4) Circuit
> 5) Waste Stack vent
> 6) Combination D&V
> loops, Islands, relief, AAV, Branch, Yoke, Vent Stack...etc are NOT fixture venting methods!
> 
> 
> Tell me this-
> How do you "relief vent" something without one of the 6 venting methods i named?


Our code has changed since I went to trade school.... check the link this is our new code.... http://www.oboa.on.ca/events/2011/sessions/files/211.pdf as far as they are concerned you can scracth off waste stack venting because now its just wet venting...

Now you are down to fixtures?... venting is venting...what the 

Either vent one or a group or the whole dam plumbing system...

they are all terms... here they are different than yours...

Along time ago we had modified stack venting.......

Now thats is just grouped under wet venting...

So wake up and realize your center of the planet doesn't encompass the whole world.


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## plbgbiz

JL Martinez said:


> Yeah I know wet venting, but when air admittance valves are being used instead of regular venting I had to say something, I mean he even describes in his pictures using one, check his pictures...





JL Martinez said:


> * "wyefortyfive" check his pictures.
> 
> 
> * Wet venting has nothing to do with "AAV"; however, the "AAV" is mentioned as if it is compatible to regular venting. California plumbing inspectors are against the "AAV"; however special circumstances are warranted only with their approval in most cases counties with mobile homes that have their plumbing grand fathered-in.


You just HAD TO say something? Really? 

Oh just give it a rest JLM. You make it sound as though he bedded the Mayor's 15 year old daughter.

I saw that photo when he first posted it and he does clean work that meets the code his AHJ adopted. It also meets the code of anyone else under the IPC.

This next is for all zealots of their jurisdiction's rules: Look past your own island and realize that there are many ways to accomplish a well functioning plumbing system that provides potable water and effectively disposes of waste. We all have imaginary lines we draw based on our experiences and what we have been taught. For some it is PEX. For others it is CPVC. And for yet others, it is this method or that method. For me, it is CSST gas pipe. And apparently for Mr. Martinez it is AAV's.

Why don't you fellas get over yourselves and realize your methods, your codes, your jurisdiction, your materials, and your terminology are not the infallible words of The Almighty Plumber.

I've been to Canada and California. Their plumbing is a bit different than Oklahoma but it works just fine.

And you Mr. Martinez...You expect us to give you credence as the end all of venting knowledge and understanding after you failed to understand your intro should be in the Introduction Section of the PZ. I'm not a big fan of AAV's either but you really need to get off that massive equestrian animal you are riding.

Because of the direction this thread took, I JUST HAD TO SAY SOMETHING. :laughing::laughing:


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## JL Martinez

Well, it looks like I hit a sore spot. My bad... I agree that there are a lot of ways to accomplish a well functioning system, but there is also a minimum code with the Uniform Plumbing Code and the California Plumbing Code that has been formulated because of dangerous circumstances that have happened in the past. Because of my state, California, I have never been exposed to the IPC, so if it say's you can vent stuff with a type of mechanical vent and it's allowed then awesome. Going back to the original post by love2surf927about the diagram, I say he can no problem here in California.
:whistling2:


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## Tommy plumber

OldSchool said:


> Actually the term up here is used quit often
> 
> Automatic Air Vent or cheater vent or auto vent is another term
> 
> I noticed that on here with every one from different places have different terms.


 





Down here we call AAV's Studor vents. There are probably millions of them in Florida.

In the picture of the Studor vent, you can see the AAV sitting on top of a santee that's on its side. Despite codes permitting an AAV only 4" or so above the p-trap, that isn't proper in my opinion. If there is a stoppage, bacteria laden water will back up into the diaphragm of the AAV. When said stoppage is cleared, there is nothing to wash out the bacteria and trash, etc. from the AAV. That's a real flaw in the plumbing codes.


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## plbgbiz

JL Martinez said:


> ...but there is also a minimum code with the Uniform Plumbing Code and the California Plumbing Code that has been formulated because of dangerous circumstances that have happened in the past....


IPC, BOCA, and CABO codes all have their minimums requirements as well and were formulated for the same reasons. Canada has their own versions too.

A lot of people view their code as superior but personally I don't think their is five cents worth of difference between them all. When I started, everything here was either BOCA or CABO. Most municipalities have since changed to the IPC but for the most part, the plumbing is all the same.


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## Tommy plumber

JL Martinez said:


> Although air admittance valves are installed I would discourage their use, because they are often installed in locations where if the valve fails, sewer gas has the potential to enter the structure; QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reminds me of a service call I had once. The man had an obnoxious odor (sewer gas) in one downstairs bathroom that he said to me no one could tell him what it was. At first I thought I needed to do a smoke test. Then I thought about a failing AAV....With minimal investigation (ie.: all I did was look under the lav)....:detective:
> I found the problem: a bad Studor vent. Swapped out a new one and the odor disappeared withing 15 minutes from the bathroom.
> 
> During the construction boom of the 1990's I worked for a plumbing company that did 1000's of new homes a year; mostly cookie-cutter track homes with a few high-end customs thrown in. Pretty much every kitchen sink was vented with an AAV. If they could have done the whole house with AAV's they would have. Except for that pesky little code requirement that stated a house shall have at least (1) 3" vent to the atmosphere.
> 
> So when we roughed-in houses, we'd rough-in (1) 3" VTR at the laundry, and the rest of the house was supposed to be rough-in for AAV's. I used to cut penetrations in the roof and run a stack out anyway because I didn't like putting AAV's everywhere.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

I understand aav always air to follow the plug of water but it doesn't vent the line allowing the pipes to dry out (I guess more important on cast iron), also are you guys using them without house traps and fresh air Inlets? (as i understand not used in all jurisdictions) Just curious if anyone has knowledge on how or if that affects the aav's
As you can tell I don't use them


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## Tommy plumber

plbgbiz said:


> When I started, everything here was either BOCA or CABO. Most municipalities have since changed to the IPC but for the most part, the plumbing is all the same.


 







When I started we used SBCCI (Southern Building Code Congress Int'l) based on standard plumbing code.


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## Widdershins

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> I understand aav always air to follow the plug of water but it doesn't vent the line allowing the pipes to dry out (I guess more important on cast iron), also are you guys using them without house traps and fresh air Inlets? (as i understand not used in all jurisdictions) Just curious if anyone has knowledge on how or if that affects the aav's
> As you can tell I don't use them


 We aren't allowed to use them unless:

1) It's on a branch that has a VTR on another branch.

2) We pipe in an auxiliary vent on the branch.

Both are seldom enforced by our Inspectors.


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## Tim Slade

Because no one ever gave a correct answer, what was drawn is a vertical wet vent. Vertical wet venting is the pipe between two trap arms. The distance of this pipe is limited to 6 feet between upper trap arm and the bottom trap arm. The trap arms use their standard measurements in chapter 10 UPC. Just for clarification the 3 inch pipe below the water closet tee is a drain, the 2 inch pipe between the water closet and the lavatory is the wet vent, and the 2 inch pipe above the lavatory is a vent ( or dry vent). the rest of the pipes in the drawing are traps and their trap arms. To size a wet vent one takes the required minimum drain of the upper fixture and then increase it one pipe size. So the minimum size for a lavatory is 1 1/4", up that one pipe size and it is 1 1/2", except that there is a min of 2" pipe on any wet vent section of pipe. So the above drawing is correct as far as wet venting goes. 
P. S. IN the UPC the flange is required to be within the trap arm distance for a water closet. That’s a 6 foot developed length not 12"


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## Tim Slade

*UPC Vertical wet venting*

How to delete post?


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

Tim Slade said:


> Because no one ever gave a correct answer, what was drawn is a vertical wet vent. Vertical wet venting is the pipe between two trap arms. The distance of this pipe is limited to 6 feet between upper trap arm and the bottom trap arm. The trap arms use their standard measurements in chapter 10 UPC. Just for clarification the 3 inch pipe below the water closet tee is a drain, the 2 inch pipe between the water closet and the lavatory is the wet vent, and the 2 inch pipe above the lavatory is a vent ( or dry vent). the rest of the pipes in the drawing are traps and their trap arms. To size a wet vent one takes the required minimum drain of the upper fixture and then increase it one pipe size. So the minimum size for a lavatory is 1 1/4", up that one pipe size and it is 1 1/2", except that there is a min of 2" pipe on any wet vent section of pipe. So the above drawing is correct as far as wet venting goes.
> P. S. IN the UPC the flange is required to be within the trap arm distance for a water closet. That&#146;s a 6 foot developed length not 12"


Why delete?


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## plbgbiz

plbgbiz said:


> ....According to the UPC 2006 908.1 no wet vent shall exceed 6' in developed length.....





Tim Slade said:


> ...P. S. IN the UPC the flange is required to be within the trap arm distance for a water closet. That’s a 6 foot developed length not 12"....


This was covered on page two.

How 'bout an intro?:whistling2:

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


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## Tim Slade

Becuase i posted the same thing twice.


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## plbgbiz

Tim Slade said:


> *Because no one ever gave a correct answer, what was drawn is a vertical wet vent.*





plbgbiz said:


> ...Your diagram is *almost identical to Figure 909-1(4) in the IPC 2006 Commentary on wet vents*.
> 
> The only difference is they show a shower connecting to the 3" santee via a side inlet. No other fixtures except that bathroom group can tie into the wet vented portion of the pipe from the 3" santee up....





U666A said:


> 1-1/2" dry vent above the lav connection *to the vertical wet vented portion*.
> 
> Your drawing is textbook in Ontario!





Tommy plumber said:


> Yes. In the original sketch, the toilet is vented by the same pipe that acts as a drain for the lav sink.
> 
> That section of pipe that serves (2) functions, both as a vent for the W/C and a drain for the lav,* is an example of a veritcal wet vent.* The vent for the W/C is 'wetted' by the lav drain.
> 
> There are also horizontal wet vents.





OldSchool said:


> ...Drains are sized by fixture units of the fixture .... two tables .... *one for horizontal and one for vertical*...
> 
> *Under our code ...we can wet vent one lav from one floor to the other*... that is part of the new code we adopted..{By the way, in any wet vent system, technically you cannot "wet vent" any lav, they are always individually or common vented.}...
> 
> ...it sized that it all can run...
> 
> ...{This is why for example, _*back to back lavs on a wet vent system must have a 2" drain*_, to where back to back on common vent can be served by 1 1/2 drain.}...
> 
> ...This would only apply to wet venting a WC.... pipe would remain 1 1/2 if you were wet venting a shower


It looks like there were several bits of correct info provided by different members. :yes:


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## jim1215

I've been laughing my rear off reading though 10(!) pages of comments on the simplest wet vent situation possible. Dude, you are fine if you do it as drawn. And 2" is the minimum size for any wet vent. I'm in So Cal also. 

Does anybody besides me take full advantage of the new (since 2006) wet venting rules for residential work on the same floor? You are allowed to have one vent serving up to two bathroom groups. That is a rare situation, but in many bathroom I am able to lay things out to code with a single vent-2"- rising from the lav. My local inspectors have told me that I am one of the very 
few plumbers that take advantage of the code changes concerning wet venting. Saves a lot of material and a lot of drilling.


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## plbgbiz

jim1215 said:


> I've been laughing my rear off reading though 10(!) pages of comments on the simplest wet vent situation possible.....
> 
> ...My local inspectors have told me that I am one of the very few plumbers that take advantage of the code changes concerning wet venting...



Well lottie freakin dah. Here's your gold star.










Now please enlighten us as to other aspects of your greatness here>>
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/

Sheesh.


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## Widdershins

plbgbiz said:


> Well lottie freakin dah. Here's your gold star.


 That's generous.


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## damnplumber

*It will fly in Californis*

In my world, this is a common installation. I like the theory of the bypass vent but I think it is over thinking things that already work.


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## damnplumber

*great tip thanks*



jim1215 said:


> I've been laughing my rear off reading though 10(!) pages of comments on the simplest wet vent situation possible. Dude, you are fine if you do it as drawn. And 2" is the minimum size for any wet vent. I'm in So Cal also.
> 
> Does anybody besides me take full advantage of the new (since 2006) wet venting rules for residential work on the same floor? You are allowed to have one vent serving up to two bathroom groups. That is a rare situation, but in many bathroom I am able to lay things out to code with a single vent-2"- rising from the lav. My local inspectors have told me that I am one of the very
> few plumbers that take advantage of the code changes concerning wet venting. Saves a lot of material and a lot of drilling.


Too many times I get used to doing things the same way over and over. I like saving labor and materials. I bet our local inspector will be scratching his head on my next top out!


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## justin

jim1215 said:


> IMy local inspectors have told me that I am one of the very
> few plumbers that take advantage of the code changes concerning wet venting. Saves a lot of material and a lot of drilling.


my wife tells me i make an awesome quiche, and i love myself alot too.


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