# Sharkbite vs Propress



## Proud Plumber

With all of the talk against shark bite fittings I have wondered why the same discussions have not been held about propress fittings. Both have an o ring seal.

I have seen those criticise crimp type pex installation as well yet propress is a crimp fitting. Pro press is almost the ultimate evil if you think about it. it holds the same seal as sharkbite and it crimps.

I have seen display of a manifold that turbulence has been discussed. When you crimp propress it changes the shape of the passage does it cause turbulence as well?

We use propress exclusively for repairs I am doing at a hospital, particulary freeze and repair. At the same time I keep a tec-tite(sharkbite) rig set up and ready to go on in the event of a problem. I personally am not against either of them. I think they are tools in our trade have a proper use.

Just curious, I thought it could stir up an interesting debate.


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## ILPlumber

Twice in the last month I have had architect/engineer reject propress due to possible turbulence and or reliance on an o-ring seal. If you look at a 2" that has been pressed , they are pretty gnarfed up looking. The other sizes aren't too awful bad. Still not pretty.

I think more and more it will be rejected. We are thinning out our inventory of pro-press fittings.

I can't comment on pex as I have never installed it other than for hydronic heating.


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## Protech

Here in Fl, I think sharks are the best choice for repairs on old oxidized copper as press knocks the coating off the old copper. Torching usually causes instant pinholes if the copper is far gone.

If we are talking about new copper, I think propress is the way to go if your going to run copper in our area. Just don’t use it on solar loops. I don’t think they will hold up in those temps. If you have to run copper with a torch, use h20 soluble flux and flush well.


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## Proud Plumber

ILPlumber said:


> Twice in the last month I have had architect/engineer reject propress due to possible turbulence and or reliance on an o-ring seal. If you look at a 2" that has been pressed , they are pretty gnarfed up looking. The other sizes aren't too awful bad. Still not pretty.
> 
> I think more and more it will be rejected. We are thinning out our inventory of pro-press fittings.
> 
> I can't comment on pex as I have never installed it other than for hydronic heating.


Would you still use at as a service and repair tool? In cases of a freeze and repair it really is a great thing to have. I hate hate hate soldering on a line that I just froze to hold the water back. probably just paranoia caused from too much exposure to pvc glue through out the years.


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## GrumpyPlumber

*I'm a little dissapointed here.*
*Both duct tape and that plumbing leak paste they sell at HD have been unfairly omitted.*

*Sorry, couldn't resist.*


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## GrumpyPlumber

Proud Plumber said:


> Would you still use at as a service and repair tool? In cases of a freeze and repair it really is a great thing to have*. I hate hate hate soldering on a line that I just froze to hold the water back.* probably just paranoia caused from too much exposure to pvc glue through out the years.


*There in lies the difference between you and the homeowner, you know from experience how to solder under those circumstances, where the homeowner fought the temptation to listen to the home depot guy and get a Sharkbite and decided to pay you to do it right.*


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## Proud Plumber

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *There in lies the difference between you and the homeowner, you know from experience how to solder under those circumstances, where the homeowner fought the temptation to listen to the home depot guy and get a Sharkbite and decided to pay you to do it right.*


true that.... but I have yet to turn down the temptation of propress when freezing and repairing. I admit it....my name is Bill and I am addicted to propress on freeze and repairs.

Slightly off topic ... I did see a homeowner once with a couple of perfect burn marks on his stomach from where he was sweating in his garage and reached up over his heater to unplug it after he took the access panel off to get to thermostat the home depot rep sold him. Evidently 220 volt, sweat, and skin do not get along to well. This man fell to the temptation. I arrived about one and half hours after he fought the beast. He looked like he saw Jesus a spiritual awakening if you will. The irony was this.... the electric panel was next to the heater.


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## Proud Plumber

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *I'm a little dissapointed here.*
> *Both duct tape and that plumbing leak paste they sell at HD have been unfairly omitted.*
> 
> *Sorry, couldn't resist.*


They sell plumbing leak paste at Home depot? Thanks for the tip.... is it kept next to the plumbers candles for finding gas leaks?


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## user4

Proud Plumber said:


> They sell plumbing leak paste at Home depot? Thanks for the tip.... is it kept next to the plumbers candles for finding gas leaks?


Plumbers candles are used for wiping joints on lead water services.


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## Proud Plumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> Plumbers candles are used for wiping joints on lead water services.


I am aware of that..... Sometimes a dry sense of humor does not come out right on a post.


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## GrumpyPlumber

Proud Plumber said:


> I am aware of that..... Sometimes a dry sense of humor does not come out right on a post.


*Actually, I appreciate it...beats the living crap outta posting fifty smiley faces in your post to make it obvious.*

*Kinda knocks the wind outta the joke.*

*Just please, don't forget the duct tape when ya pick up the gooey stuff and candles..mmmmkay?*


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## Proud Plumber

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Actually, I appreciate it...beats the living crap outta posting fifty smiley faces in your post to make it obvious.*
> 
> *Kinda knocks the wind outta the joke.*
> 
> *Just please, don't forget the duct tape when ya pick up the gooey stuff and candles..mmmmkay?*


 gotcha. I forgot to ask you where to find it at Home Depot.


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## Protech

usually next to the cpvc dresler couplings, above the JB weld.


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## Marlin

Protech said:


> If we are talking about new copper, I think propress is the way to go if your going to run copper in our area. Just don’t use it on solar loops. I don’t think they will hold up in those temps. If you have to run copper with a torch, use h20 soluble flux and flush well.


You say you wouldn't solder on old lines because it creates pinholes. I've never seen or heard of such a situation but if the copper is that bad why not just tell the customer it's only a matter of time before that copper goes and sell a replacement? Are they just plain cheap? If so I guess it makes sense but I would sure get it in writing that I informed them the copper is going to fail in short order. 

On new lines though why pro press instead of soldering?


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## GrumpyPlumber

Marlin said:


> You say you wouldn't solder on old lines because it creates pinholes. I've never seen or heard of such a situation but if the copper is that bad why not just tell the customer it's only a matter of time before that copper goes and sell a replacement? Are they just plain cheap? If so I guess it makes sense but I would sure get it in writing that I informed them the copper is going to fail in short order.
> 
> *On new lines though why pro press instead of soldering*?


*Gawd, here we go again.....:blink:*


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## Protech

I feel that flux encourages pin hole leaks(in my area). propress uses no flux. This applies to my area only. If the water in your area gets along good with copper then torch it with water soluble flux. Obviously, if you have chloramines you don't want to use anything with an edpm o-ring(sharkbites and propress) on a system that will not be repiped soon. The chlorine in combination with the flux will kill the copper way before the turbulence will in my area.


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## Protech

I do when I can. Half the time, yes.




Marlin said:


> You say you wouldn't solder on old lines because it creates pinholes. I've never seen or heard of such a situation but if the copper is that bad why not just tell the customer it's only a matter of time before that copper goes and sell a replacement? Are they just plain cheap? If so I guess it makes sense but I would sure get it in writing that I informed them the copper is going to fail in short order.
> 
> On new lines though why pro press instead of soldering?


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## ILPlumber

Protech said:


> I feel that flux encourages pin hole leaks(in my area). propress uses no flux. This applies to my area only. If the water in your area gets along good with copper then torch it with water soluble flux. Obviously, if you have chloramines you don't want to use anything with an edpm o-ring(sharkbites and propress) on a system that will not be repiped soon. The chlorine in combination with the flux will kill the copper way before the turbulence will in my area.


 

Pro-press EPDM o-rings are now chloramine impervious.


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## Protech

I had no idea. When did they start doing that?


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## ILPlumber

It has been in the last few years. Makes me wonder about the ones installed in 2001. We are primarily victaulic and soldering copper now. There is something coming down the pike with PP. IMO.


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## TDB

Proud Plumber, can you elaborate on your set up for freezing to make repairs? I have been interested in getting one. Normally I take a "jet swet" bath and do quite well. But this freezing idea has some merritt.

What do you use?

How big is it? Can it be carried on a van everyday?

What is the cost to opperate?

Pros? Cons?

If you had to buy it all over again, what would you do different?


Maybe this is a topic for a new thread... Maybe there already is one


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## Proud Plumber

TDB said:


> Proud Plumber, can you elaborate on your set up for freezing to make repairs? I have been interested in getting one. Normally I take a "jet swet" bath and do quite well. But this freezing idea has some merritt.
> 
> What do you use?
> 
> How big is it? Can it be carried on a van everyday?
> 
> What is the cost to opperate?
> 
> Pros? Cons?
> 
> If you had to buy it all over again, what would you do different?
> 
> 
> Maybe this is a topic for a new thread... Maybe there already is one


 
I use general cold shot equipt. I experimented with two systems a bag type system (not sure the name) and general's cold shot. For the most part I am *not* a fan of general products as a whole. But I like the cold shot system the best of the two. Both systems use siphon type CO2 and it is extremely cheap. Yes it can be carried on van. Quite fankly they are both easy to use.

Pros/Cons- My big fear of it all was causing the pipe to burst when I freeze. All involved in educating me on the process assured me it was not a worry. The other is always in my gut when I freeze. "god help me if it lets go" I have set myself up with many protective measures should that happen. The reality is this. As long as the freeze plug is solid, and the gas is on it, AND THE BOOSTER PUMPS are off you will be O.K.. I was warned about booster pumps. I never questioned it, I refuse to cut until the pumps are off.

Now it is becoming second nature. I had a bad shut off vave on a house main the other day. The meter was grassed over so rather than probe all over the place I slapped the the gas on it and in 15 minutes I pressed a new valve in. While I was doing that the owner found his own meter box he covered up with seagrass in his landscape. Yeah, no fire ants. 

I reccomend it, The price tags on the jobs are pretty good as well. High risk high reward. It pays for itself right away. Just another tool in the tool box.


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## 22rifle

I am not comfortable with ProPress. I have a few Sharkbites out there in applications where they will never come back to bite me.

Gotta stay with what you are comfortable with.

At the same time, I will quickly defend both against ignorant attacks.


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## TDB

Thanks, Bill.

That one looks alot smaller than the last one I looked up online.

Gonna order one today. I think I can make room on the rig for it


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## Proud Plumber

TDB said:


> Thanks, Bill.
> 
> That one looks alot smaller than the last one I looked up online.
> 
> Gonna order one today. I think I can make room on the rig for it


Always always always keep an extra bottle of gas. if you are freezing above 1" bring two extra bottles or a couple of the larger bottles. Running out could shave some life expectancy off of you.


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## Proud Plumber

22rifle said:


> I am not comfortable with ProPress. I have a few Sharkbites out there in applications where they will never come back to bite me.
> 
> Gotta stay with what you are comfortable with.
> 
> At the same time, I will quickly defend both against ignorant attacks.


I agree, I think most every tool we have has a place in our world. It is when they are abused that ruin it.


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## Pipemaster

22rifle said:


> I am not comfortable with ProPress. I have a few Sharkbites out there in applications where they will never come back to bite me.
> 
> Gotta stay with what you are comfortable with.
> 
> At the same time, I will quickly defend both against ignorant attacks.


 
*sharkbites vs propress*

*the only thing that really concerns me about these two products is the use of an internal "o" ring.*

*we've all seen "o" ring failures*

*after time, (especially on hot water lines) all "o" rings will fail*

*hell everything fails after time (the wife told me that)*

*My honest admission however is I couldnt imagine not having a sharkbite in the middle of the night on an emergency pipe burst or flooding incident, cut and cut and snap, your done !*

*After installing them for over 4 years now i've never had a return call for a leaking or faulty one.*


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## user4

Proud Plumber said:


> Always always always keep an extra bottle of gas. if you are freezing above 1" bring two extra bottles or a couple of the larger bottles. Running out could shave some life expectancy off of you.


Our shop has freezing equipment, it gathers dust in our shop because we sub it out to a pipe freezing company whenever the need comes up.


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## Proud Plumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> Our shop has freezing equipment, it gathers dust in our shop because we sub it out to a pipe freezing company whenever the need comes up.


I have ran into this before, is it because of liability?


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## user4

Proud Plumber said:


> I have ran into this before, is it because of liability?


Yep.

My boss had a freeze let go years ago, on the 35th floor, it took twenty minutes to get the riser shut down, the damage was in the millions.


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## Proud Plumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> Yep.
> 
> My boss had a freeze let go years ago, on the 35th floor, it took twenty minutes to get the riser shut down, the damage was in the millions.


Don't think my gut hasn't worried about it. I do take some precautions with it. I always have building staff on hand and ready to go if shut off is needed. I now have safety rigs set up with sharkbites. I have a coupling and valve rig made up in 1/2" through 2". I also keep some 2" vynil hose layed out that is place at the nearest drain. Not fool proof by anymeans. If copper pipe were to shear off at a ftg jammed up against a tee it could get ugly real quick. I try to really think things through when I am doing them. That is why I really like propress and push on fittings in the freeze world.


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## Plumberman

I had one let go on a chilled water line inside a p-tac unit. It was 1/2 and I applied the packs to the line in the ceiling. It was a General like you use. Cut the valve out and it was holding. One pack malfunctioned somehow and all hell broke loose. Luckily they don't run chemical in their supply piping and some trash got hung up in a fitting and stopped the flood. I had my jet sweat ready and jammed it in the line..... That's the last time I used the freeze tool.


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## Proud Plumber

Other than here the only story I had ever heard was about a guy that had one let go because they didn't shut the booster pumps off on the buidling.


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