# Set fast closet bolts...



## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

Anyone ever use them? I love them and use them all the time. They work in 99% of applications. Kinda pricey though at about 3 bucks a set.


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## Nevada Plumber

I started using those a while ago. I really like them. I wish I had switched to them a lot sooner. No more scraping my knuckles trying to cut the bolt down.


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## Gettinit

Flange better be setting on top of the floor or they are too short. That is the only draw back that I can think of.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

Gettinit said:


> Flange better be setting on top of the floor or they are too short. That is the only draw back that I can think of.


Roger that.... I wish the studs were longer.


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## Protech

Gettinit said:


> Flange better be setting on top of the floor or they are too short. That is the only draw back that I can think of.


It should be on top of the floor either way, no matter what bolt you're using.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

Protech said:


> It should be on top of the floor either way, no matter what bolt you're using.





Key words..."SHOULD BE".


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## AlbacoreShuffle

Protech said:


> It should be on top of the floor either way, no matter what bolt you're using.


Should be , but we have all run into a flange that is recessed in the floor or the home owner added tile and didn't raise the flange.


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## express

I have a rule, I never stack my wax rings more than 4 high. LOL


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## AlbacoreShuffle

express said:


> I have a rule, I never stack my wax rings more than 4 high. LOL


you go one more than me. :laughing:


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

express said:


> I have a rule, I never stack my wax rings more than 4 high. LOL




Haha. Most I've done is 3.


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## RW Plumbing

Since I joined this forum the most wax rings I've used on a toilet is 1. I didn't fully understand how bad that was until I saw a thread on here about it years back.


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## Gettinit

Most homes I can talk them into raising the few I run into. Businesses, you do what they let you do. I am not sure those bolts will even reach if the flange was level with the floor.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

They do barely reach if the flange is flush with the tile. The problem is that around here most inspectors want to see the flange screwed to the floor before they will pass the rough in. I was taught that the flange does not get glued and secured until fixtures are set, that way the flange is set on top of the tile the way it should be.


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## Gettinit

There is no excuse in a new construction setting. I only do service, so I get the pleasure of resetting and or repairing.


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## johnlewismcleod

I love those things... they really come in handy when you have to hang a urinal on someone's cheesy plastic urinal flange. Makes it possible to use the plastic flange almost like a real brass flange :thumbsup:


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## gear junkie

johnlewismcleod said:


> I love those things... they really come in handy when you have to hang a urinal on someone's cheesy plastic urinal flange. Makes it possible to use the plastic flange almost like a real brass flange :thumbsup:


Never used one....how does this improve a plastic flange?


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## johnlewismcleod

gear junkie said:


> Never used one....how does this improve a plastic flange?


You can slide the t-head section into the plastic flange ears, the hang the urinal, and then bolt through the china flange with the urinal in place as if it were a brass flange.

You don't have to fight the urinal over the bolts sticking out of the plastic flange anymore.

Put a set of those Set Fast on the truck and next time you need to hang a urinal on a plastic flange, pull them out. It'll become clear real quick how wonderful they are for hanging urinals:yes:


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## Plumbergeek

I also use these closet bolts, I think they are great! WB makes some quality stuff, just wish the shipping cost wasn't so high when you only order small quanities!


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## GREENPLUM

I would like to test out a few sets 

why are they so hard to find?


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## johnlewismcleod

GREENPLUM said:


> I would like to test out a few sets
> 
> why are they so hard to find?


They cost about $1.50 more than regular good quality brass 5/15" bolt sets and people often are happy to spend a dollar to save a dime

I strongly recommend anyone who hasn't tried them to do so...they're great time savers and brilliant for urinals when you have to deal with plastic flanges.


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## GREENPLUM

johnlewismcleod said:


> They cost about $1.50 more than regular good quality brass 5/15" bolt sets and people often are happy to spend a dollar to save a dime
> 
> I strongly recommend anyone who hasn't tried them to do so...they're great time savers and brilliant for urinals when you have to deal with plastic flanges.


 
I put a SS ringer over plastic flanges to solve the plastic flange problem.


No supply house round here has them for sale, wonder why there not at homey de pot


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## 422 plumber

The inventor posted on here or the Ridgid forum, and offered freebies. I got some and really like them but no one by me carries them.


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## Gettinit

422 plumber said:


> The inventor posted on here or the Ridgid forum, and offered freebies. I got some and really like them but no one by me carries them.


Wolverine brass or Plumbmasters since they are the same company.


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## johnlewismcleod

GREENPLUM said:


> I put a SS ringer over plastic flanges to solve the plastic flange problem.
> 
> 
> No supply house round here has them for sale, wonder why there not at homey de pot


Never tried that or seen it done...any chance of a pic post next time you do it?

I ask because occasionally the cheesy plastic ears are either broken or break when pulling a urinal. 

If it's a male urinal flange I can just ream it out and glue in a new one, but if it's a female flange I use much profanity, then either cut into the wall or dig out the chisel :furious:


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## GREENPLUM

johnlewismcleod said:


> Never tried that or seen it done...any chance of a pic post next time you do it?
> 
> I ask because occasionally the cheesy plastic ears are either broken or break when pulling a urinal.
> 
> If it's a male urinal flange I can just ream it out and glue in a new one, but if it's a female flange I use much profanity, then either cut into the wall or dig out the chisel :furious:


 
sorry , i was talking about a plastic toilet flange not urinal 









886-MR Ringer™
Stainless Steel Closet Ring



Stainless steel ring is corrosion resistant
Perfect for repairs to damaged closet flanges, or new concrete floor installations
Fits securely over damaged flanges


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## johnlewismcleod

GREENPLUM said:


> sorry , i was talking about a plastic toilet flange not urinal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 886-MR Ringer™
> Stainless Steel Closet Ring
> 
> 
> 
> Stainless steel ring is corrosion resistant
> Perfect for repairs to damaged closet flanges, or new concrete floor installations
> Fits securely over damaged flanges


Ahhh...crap  I was all excited about that, too :yes:

Thanks for the clarification, GP...I'll read more carefully next time :thumbsup:


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## pauliplumber

They will fit with flush flanges. High quality bolt. They don't however fit with some old cast iron flanges, the heads are fat.


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## damnplumber

express said:


> I have a rule, I never stack my wax rings more than 4 high. LOL


Now that's funny right there


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## alberteh

I heart set fast. never again will i install a regular closet bolt.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

I ran out a few weeks ago... I was sawing closet bolts again.:furious:


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## No-hub

express said:


> I have a rule, I never stack my wax rings more than 4 high. LOL


 4 regulars or thick ones?LOL, thats alot of horns stacked up, no seep x 4:whistling2:


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## Drumma Plumma

GREENPLUM said:


> I would like to test out a few sets
> 
> why are they so hard to find?


Wolverine Brass has them. They are flippin' sweet. They do make an extended version too, but I find that the regular ones work most of the time.


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## JDGA80

I've always used 2 sets of nuts on the bolts. 1 secures bolt to flange, 1 secures toilet to flange. Then mini-hack or use the multi tool to saw them down. Are these that much better??


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

Yes!!!


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## user2090

Been using them for years. One of the best plumbing innovation to come down the pike in years. Carry 6 packages of them on the van at all times.

I revisited some jobs where I used them and they are so easy to take apart and reuse. Especially if your on a remodel where the toilet might be pulled a few times.

Yes, JD they are that good. Guarantee that if you use them you'll not go back. No extra time to cut and clean up.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

JDGA80 said:


> I've always used 2 sets of nuts on the bolts. 1 secures bolt to flange, 1 secures toilet to flange. Then mini-hack or use the multi tool to saw them down. Are these that much better??




I'm surprised you don't run into issues double bolting every toilet. The only time I do it is when I'm resetting a kohler one piece , or any other toilet where you can't see the bolts.


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## plbgbiz

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I'm surprised you don't run into issues double bolting every toilet. The only time I do it is when I'm resetting a kohler one piece , or any other toilet where you can't see the bolts.


I guess I need to look at them. I have always used WB 5/16" closet bolts with the extra nut.


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## JDGA80

I went to the website for them. Was going to order a pile but they only sell to wholesalers it seems. Does Ferguson's carry them? I guess I could order them from Mark's if need be.


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## GREENPLUM

meh , Ill think the regular tee bolts work just fine, these set fast tee bolts might be nice but too hard to get and prolly expensive ,,, as was said the standard tee bolt work fine.


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## deerslayer

Never used the set fast bolts, looks like a good idea, but it only takes a minute per bolt to cut the bolts with a minhack.

Anyone ever use these to extend the low flanges? I use them alot and they work well.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

Our supplier didn't carry them either. We had our salesman get them for us.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

deerslayer said:


> Never used the set fast bolts, looks like a good idea, but it only takes a minute per bolt to cut the bolts with a minhack.
> 
> Anyone ever use these to extend the low flanges? I use them alot and they work well.
> View attachment 22752




I see those things leak all the time. Mostly flooring guys use them here after they raise the floor. 

Personally I will either use 2 wax seals or if it's deeper than that I will raise the flange. I would never use those extenders I've seen too many leak and I've never *needed* one. It is impossible to seal that 100% to last. It will never last long. Usually about 5 years is when they leak and you won't know it until the floor is buckled and ruined.


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## JDGA80

deerslayer said:


> Never used the set fast bolts, looks like a good idea, but it only takes a minute per bolt to cut the bolts with a minhack.
> 
> Anyone ever use these to extend the low flanges? I use them alot and they work well.


I use the white PVC ones sometimes when the flooring has been raised or flange is cranked. Little PVC glue or silicone II, the reinforced wax ring with the rubber funnel, and the usual double nut action and your back in business. They work good


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

JDGA80 said:


> I use the white PVC ones sometimes when the flooring has been raised or flange is cranked. Little PVC glue and the usual double nut action and your back in business. They work good


I would never consider that a permanent repair I see too many of them leak. If the flange is that low then raise it.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

I love seeing those things stacked and all screwed together with various types of sealants used in between. I will never be a believer in those. 

I think they're kept next to the sharkbites in home depot.


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## JDGA80

I hear ya, that's why I edited. I try to use the wax rings with the rubber cone on things like that. That 30 min quick dry silicone II is good stuff for in between.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

I stay away from the horn seals too. They do not last as long. Nothing is better than a regular old wax seal. 

Or you could use putty like in the old days. 

I will still sometimes pull toilets that were set in putty 60 years ago. One time the cast iron flange came up with it. Lol. That stuff will almost last forever.


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## JDGA80

Of the wax rings I've had to replace due to leakage at base of commode. The only thing left besides a smidgen of wax is usually that rubber cone. I got a favorite screwdriver I use just for that. If water gets to ring with a cone it's gonna be coming up from the riser and ya got bigger problems anyway I guess.


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## JDGA80

I hear ya on that putty. I hate chiseling that stuff down to the flange. Sets up pretty hard in 40yrs. Lol


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## deerslayer

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I see those things leak all the time. Mostly flooring guys use them here after they raise the floor.
> 
> Personally I will either use 2 wax seals or if it's deeper than that I will raise the flange. I would never use those extenders I've seen too many leak and I've never *needed* one. It is impossible to seal that 100% to last. It will never last long. Usually about 5 years is when they leak and you won't know it until the floor is buckled and ruined.


Agree to disagree. If installed properly they work and work well, there are srew holes in them for a reason. There are times when it isn't practical to raise the flange.
I personally will not use 2 wax seals, to me that is a hack fix and there is nothing solid there, why it is impossible to get those to last and seal 100%:laughing:


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## plbgbiz

deerslayer said:


> Never used the set fast bolts, looks like a good idea, but it only takes a minute per bolt to cut the bolts with a minhack.
> 
> Anyone ever use these to extend the low flanges? I use them alot and they work well.


The silicone will peel off the PVC and leak eventually.

Sonneborn NP1 will be a permanently bonded and waterproof seal between the flanges. But, it is still better to raise the flange.


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## deerslayer

plbgbiz said:


> The silicone will peel off the PVC and leak eventually.
> 
> Sonneborn NP1 will be a permanently bonded and waterproof seal between the flanges. But, it is still better to raise the flange.


I use clear rtv from the auto parts store to bond them together, it will actually melt into the pvc a little and bonds well.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

I've been doing it for years without any problems. 

Those extenders screw together but how do you seal them? The only way I think they would seal long term is if maybe a wax seal was put between them or is some way they could be glued together. I've just seen too many leak they leave a bad taste in my mouth. 

Everytime I find one leaking I'm always able to remove them and repair it properly either by replacing the flange or sometimes they're really not even needed and I just remove it and install new wax and bolts and it's fine.


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## deerslayer

plbgbiz said:


> The silicone will peel off the PVC and leak eventually.
> 
> Sonneborn NP1 will be a permanently bonded and waterproof seal between the flanges. But, it is still better to raise the flange.


Of course wax works and is the be all end all for toilets, yet it willl move harden, it compresses and has no elasticity but everyone thinks 2 rings is the solution. I would rather see the plastic risers with some wax rubbed on em than 2 rings.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

deerslayer said:


> I use clear rtv from the auto parts store to bond them together, it will actually melt into the pvc a little and bonds well.




I've pulled many that have sealed with silicone. It's not permanent. Usually 3-5 years is the time they take to start leaking, sometimes sooner.


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## JDGA80

On the wax rings I just try to stock the more expensive ones that are already reinforced, thicker, and have the rubber insert. About $6 bucks a ring but worth it. Even when customers buy there own "toilet in a box" setups I usually use the nice wax ring and nip a call-back in the butt before it happens


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

Based off experience. 

Those extenders leak way more often than any wax seal no matter how many are stacked.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

deerslayer said:


> Agree to disagree. If installed properly they work and work well, there are srew holes in them for a reason. There are times when it isn't practical to raise the flange.
> I personally will not use 2 wax seals, to me that is a hack fix and there is nothing solid there, *why it is impossible to get those to last and seal 100%:laughing:*



The results speak for themselves. Why do they leak so often?


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## deerslayer

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I've pulled many that have sealed with silicone. It's not permanent. Usually 3-5 years is the time they take to start leaking, sometimes sooner.


Regular silicone is not the same as clear automotive RTV. Just curious the ones you found leaking was the toilet moving around? I have never seen one installed properly leaking (even with the little tube of latex included with it used, instead of RTV). I find that toilets leak when they move, as I said above wax has little to no elasticity and if the toilet moves after its set it will probably leak. That is why I grout in every floor mounted toilet. Also the riser's I use are not just a flat piece of plastic each one locks into the next with a mini horn. I have seen the ones that are just flat plastic and I wont use them.


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## redbeardplumber

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I see those things leak all the time. Mostly flooring guys use them here after they raise the floor.
> 
> Personally I will either use 2 wax seals or if it's deeper than that I will raise the flange. I would never use those extenders I've seen too many leak and I've never needed one. It is impossible to seal that 100% to last. It will never last long. Usually about 5 years is when they leak and you won't know it until the floor is buckled and ruined.


If risers are installed correctly with silicone, you never have a problem. Stacking wax seals is asking for trouble....

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## deerslayer

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> The results speak for themselves. Why do they leak so often?


Touch'e


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## deerslayer

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> The results speak for themselves. Why do they leak so often?


I just reset 6 toilets that the maintenence man felt the same as you about when he stacked 2 wax rings on, when they redid the tile 2 years ago. Was it leaking because of 2 wax rings or the toilets were moving, imho it was because the toilets were moving but I used the risers and grouted them in and they wont be leaking or moving anymore.


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## JDGA80

Always grout. Good point. Our instructor for the plumbers trade association in ga had a good point at continuing education about leaving the back open on a crawl space or two story. Rather see the water come out the back than rotting wood waiting to have someone sit in the crawl space. Lol


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## Gettinit

I have never had a problem stacking. I use plain wax on the bottom and horn on top. A sink full of hot water softens them real nice. I always throw a couple on the dash during the cover months when going to a possible call that pulling a toilet is possible.

The stacking problems I find were where plumbers obviously stack them cold. While cold the wax is stout enough to bend the reinforcement ring. Or, they stacked it in a place that one ring would have been more than enough. Dead giveaway is when my auger comes back with wax.:furious:


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## Plumberman911

you must have been on my jobs. i usually stack 2 all the time unless the flange is 1/4" aff. 4 is my max. once i set 5. he just laid a expensive floor when i told him the flange needed raised to finished floor he flipped. so i used 5 and no call back.


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## redbeardplumber

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I've pulled many that have sealed with silicone. It's not permanent. Usually 3-5 years is the time they take to start leaking, sometimes sooner.


Hmm good point, I haven't seen this but now maybe I'll use a glue instead of silicone. The only leaks I have seen is when toilet rocks, or there is more than one wax seal....

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

I love them to. Like socks on a kitten. No more cutting the bolts they hold plumb when setting the wc.


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## redbeardplumber

I am taking all this info in. Silicone peeling, rtv glue, hot water to soften wax, grout.... All good stuff boys. Currently this is how my flanges look before setting toilet.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## JDGA80

^ only clear silicone II 30 min dry. Lol. The white silicone is trash.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Why is the flange covered like that??


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## rjbphd

With all this... I only use the rubber gaskets... esp after others were there using the wax crap.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

JDGA80 said:


> ^ only clear silicone II 30 min dry. Lol. The white silicone is trash.


Clear won't hide shims when tile guys jack up.


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## JDGA80

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Why is the flange covered like that??


I didn't wanna be the first one to ask. I guess it can't hurt. Never seen it done like that before.


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## JDGA80

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Clear won't hide shims when tile guys jack up.


I only use the silicone II if I'm putting the flange extensions on( In between the plastic rings before bolting). Either that or PVC glue is its PVC. I always grout the toilets down though. I do hate the cleanup if HO has a tile floor with colored grout cause I'm not gonna stock 50 different colors of pre mixed grout. Lol


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

I caulk with white or bone. I hate grout cuz if the wc has to be pulled then it's a pita to seal it back


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## 89plumbum

JDGA80 said:


> I only use the silicone II if I'm putting the flange extensions on( In between the plastic rings before bolting). Either that or PVC glue is its PVC. I always grout the toilets down though. I do hate the cleanup if HO has a tile floor with colored grout cause I'm not gonna stock 50 different colors of pre mixed grout. Lol


I only carry white grout, if its a different color there paying me to go find the right color. (or almond/ biscuit sillycone) 

I have been known to make different shades of grey with some black sand.:whistling2:


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## deerslayer

redbeardplumber said:


> I am taking all this info in. Silicone peeling, rtv glue, hot water to soften wax, grout.... All good stuff boys. Currently this is how my flanges look before setting toilet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


That is the same as the pic dunbar posted awhile back and he did it to ensure if the wax seal failed that the water would leak out and not down into the floor.


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## deerslayer

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I caulk with white or bone. I hate grout cuz if the wc has to be pulled then it's a pita to seal it back


Caulk looks terrible rather quickly and really doesn't support the toilet and ensure against movement. Grout on the other hand works great to support toilet and lasts for a long time. Why are you setting toilets temporarily? I can understand caulk for a temporary set IE during construction, but when I set a toilet permanently I don't want it to move ever. If you wet down the toilet and the floor the grout will bond almost to the point of breaking the toilet. If you don't wet the surfaces it can be pulled and scraped off later.


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## deerslayer

89plumbum said:


> I only carry white grout, if its a different color there paying me to go find the right color. (or almond/ biscuit sillycone)
> 
> I have been known to make different shades of grey with some black sand.:whistling2:


I keep a bucket of white grout all the time, and a premix qt of linen color. I figure if it matches the toilet it will be fine and most customers agree or have their own leftover grout. On new construction I always get matching grout from the tileguy for setting the toilet.


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## deerslayer

Alot of the older commercial toilets around here were set in hydraulic cement. You talk about a toilet that is hard to pull! I have to sit on the floor and push up under the bowl with my feet to remove them and half the time the toilet shatters!


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## easttexasplumb

Flange should be level with finish floor, only techs use extensions.


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## JDGA80

deerslayer said:


> Alot of the older commercial toilets around here were set in hydraulic cement. You talk about a toilet that is hard to pull! I have to sit on the floor and push up under the bowl with my feet to remove them and half the time the toilet shatters!


That's awesome. Haha


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## JDGA80

easttexasplumb said:


> Flange should be level with finish floor, only techs use extensions.


On fixture stage the tiles are already laid usually and the riser gets cut flush and flange set


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## gear junkie

I always preset the toilet then place the shims tape them down, then pull the toilet then put the wax ring in and set the toilet down permanently. Caulk with white or clear silicone but I leave the space open in the back. Number 1 or number 5 wax ring if I need bigger than the flange comes up.


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## easttexasplumb

JDGA80 said:


> On fixture stage the tiles are already laid usually and the riser gets cut flush and flange set


Some people install the flanges on rough in that way they save the 39 cents a test cap costs.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

No test cap here I stubb up a foot or so past the slab and tape it off


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

deerslayer said:


> Caulk looks terrible rather quickly and really doesn't support the toilet and ensure against movement. Grout on the other hand works great to support toilet and lasts for a long time. Why are you setting toilets temporarily? I can understand caulk for a temporary set IE during construction, but when I set a toilet permanently I don't want it to move ever. If you wet down the toilet and the floor the grout will bond almost to the point of breaking the toilet. If you don't wet the surfaces it can be pulled and scraped off later.


Caulk isn't intended to support the wc the floor and or shims do. If floor is layed properly then I only apply a small bead if caulk and then rubb it a but then wipe away with a fine sponge that is wet. I hate seeing a sloppy caulking job. Same process with any other fixtures I very rarely see any here that are grouted in I think it's also a regional thing


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## rjbphd

This thread sounds like for DIYers... no plumber here use the rubber sponge gasket? Which are far better than those DIYer wax gasket.


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## Drumma Plumma

rjbphd said:


> This thread sounds like for DIYers... no plumber here use the rubber sponge gasket? Which are far better than those DIYer wax gasket.


I don't trust those things. I was taught to use putty and that's what I use about 90% of the time. That's what my grandfather and father used.


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## rjbphd

Drumma Plumma said:


> I don't trust those things. I was taught to use putty and that's what I use about 90% of the time. That's what my grandfather and father used.


Putty???!! Maybe the 'old' day putty. Nowaday putty just dry and crumpled and worst than wax gasket.


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## JDGA80

rjbphd said:


> This thread sounds like for DIYers... no plumber here use the rubber sponge gasket? Which are far better than those DIYer wax gasket.


Just on wall hung urinals and Sloan valve style W/C that are on chair carriers.


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## Drumma Plumma

rjbphd said:


> Putty???!! Maybe the 'old' day putty. Nowaday putty just dry and crumpled and worst than wax gasket.


Not Hercules Sta-Put. That stuff is great.


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## easttexasplumb

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> No test cap here I stubb up a foot or so past the slab and tape it off


 
What kind of tape will hold the head pressure required for the water test.:whistling2:


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## deerslayer

easttexasplumb said:


> Flange should be level with finish floor, only techs use extensions.


Top of flange should be 1/4 - 5/16 AFF


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## Drumma Plumma

deerslayer said:


> Top of flange should be 1/4 - 5/16 AFF


And screwed to the floor


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## Plumberman911

Drumma Plumma said:


> I don't trust those things. I was taught to use putty and that's what I use about 90% of the time. That's what my grandfather and father used.


I broke a bowl using one of those. Don't use them anymore


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## easttexasplumb

deerslayer said:


> Top of flange should be 1/4 - 5/16 AFF


 
Ok so flush with finish floor is a 1/4" off, sue me.


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## deerslayer

I think the important thing to draw from our posts is we are all passionate about our proffesion, and we want to do whats right for the customer. That being said I am passionate about not stacking closet rings:laughing: and many of you are the opposite. This is about like the putty vs silicone and horn vs no horn. I think there is other ways to do things but I know what works for me and I will continue to do what works for me and eliminates callbacks.


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## JDGA80

easttexasplumb said:


> Ok so flush with finish floor is a 1/4" off, sue me.


I guess no ones working today. Just drinking beer and talking a lil s**t. Lol


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

Really flange should be sitting on top of finished floor.


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## easttexasplumb

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> Really flange should be sitting on top of finished floor.


 
toilet no rocky or flange breaky that way and fast set bolts rock.


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## gear junkie

Never done this but a thought....if some people like the putty, some like wax and some like stacking rings, why not just use the putty or wax as the gasket material between rings?


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## redbeardplumber

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Why is the flange covered like that??


Haha. Like deer slayer said, if there was ever a leak of some sort, I want to see water on floor not lifting floor or rotting floor. I just can't see how in most cases doing service I can get a new flange on top of the floor. But I will try some of these ideas. Lots of great info.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## redbeardplumber

deerslayer said:


> Top of flange should be 1/4 - 5/16 AFF


AFF?

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Above finish floor. BFF. Below finish floor


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## redbeardplumber

easttexasplumb said:


> toilet no rocky or flange breaky that way and fast set bolts rock.


How does the flange on top of floor make it less likely to break? And how do you guys cut out a flange and raise it floor height if they have taken say Lino out and put in tiles. This is great stuff!

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

redbeardplumber said:


> How does the flange on top of floor make it less likely to break? And how do you guys cut out a flange and raise it floor height if they have taken say Lino out and put in tiles. This is great stuff!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I'll do a demo on the next one I do. 

It's simple, I can change a flange in about 10 minutes. It takes longer to go to the truck and get the tools and materials. I use a 3" cutting wheel on a tank bolt. Then use that in my drill, cut the flange down far enough that I can get a 3" coupling on the pipe. I then glue on the coupling glue in a piece of pipe that's a few inches above the floor, use my inside cutter to cut it down to height. Then cut 4 pieces of 1/2" copper usually about 3/4" long. These are used between the flange and the floor and I put them where the screw holes are and screw the flange to the floor through the copper pipe. This makes it ridgid and at the perfect height. I can do this in no time flat. 


If its on top of another fitting and there is not room for a coupling I use a ram bit and drill the pipe out and proceed from there.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

The flange is perfect when it sits right in the floor. It will not break this way. Then 1 wax seal is perfect to seal the toilet to the flange.


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## easttexasplumb

redbeardplumber said:


> How does the flange on top of floor make it less likely to break? And how do you guys cut out a flange and raise it floor height if they have taken say Lino out and put in tiles. This is great stuff!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 
If there is space between the flange and the floor then movement can occur and the flange break. If the flange is cast iron a hammer will remove it, if the flange is PVC a sawzall will remove it. These work good on PVC and ABS.


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## easttexasplumb

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> The flange is perfect when it sits right in the floor. It will not break this way. Then 1 wax seal is perfect to seal the toilet to the flange.


 
Horn or no Horn.


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## deerslayer

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I'll do a demo on the next one I do.
> 
> It's simple, I can change a flange in about 10 minutes. It takes longer to go to the truck and get the tools and materials. I use a 3" cutting wheel on a tank bolt. Then use that in my drill, cut the flange down far enough that I can get a 3" coupling on the pipe. I then glue on the coupling glue in a piece of pipe that's a few inches above the floor, use my inside cutter to cut it down to height. Then cut 4 pieces of 1/2" copper usually about 3/4" long. These are used between the flange and the floor and I put them where the screw holes are and screw the flange to the floor through the copper pipe. This makes it ridgid and at the perfect height. I can do this in no time flat.
> 
> 
> If its on top of another fitting and there is not room for a coupling I use a ram bit and drill the pipe out and proceed from there.


Your method works and I do it often when I can, however it is not a perfect world and when concrete is completely engulfing the pipe and bottom of flange you won't change a flange in 10 minutes without using an inside fit long tailpiece flange which works great on 4" but I don't like them for 3".


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

I'm with ya. On a slab it's a different story. 

I'm not a fan of the inside 3" pipe flanges but that is a case where I *might* use one if it comes down to having to either break up floor or use inside flange.


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## easttexasplumb

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I'm with ya. On a slab it's a different story.
> 
> I'm not a fan of the inside 3" pipe flanges but that is a case where I *might* use one if it comes down to having to either break up floor or use inside flange.


Most homes here are slab on grade and unless it is a out of round lead commode bend it is replaceable.


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## redbeardplumber

Thanks guys! A ram bit, wow! Never heard of one. I usually cut with hacksaw blade by hand and then chisel out. I have worked for some cheap dudes in my day, and there is no way they would have spent the money. Now I'm BOSS.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## rjbphd

Any nobody use the sponge rubber CLOSET gasket from WB or Sexhaur??? Which are far better than any wax gasket!!


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

Not me rj. 

Regular old wax works best for me. Nothing fancy.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

redbeardplumber said:


> Thanks guys! A ram bit, wow! Never heard of one. I usually cut with hacksaw blade by hand and then chisel out. I have worked for some cheap dudes in my day, and there is no way they would have spent the money. Now I'm BOSS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I don't wait for someone to buy my tools for me. I have all my own stuff.


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## JDGA80

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I don't wait for someone to buy my tools for me. I have all my own stuff.


My first boss, not the one I'm drinking with at the sports bar now was so cheap his kitchen sink drain cleaner was four employees holding a cable with a dude outside with the Milwaukee right angle drill and the house lined in towels provided by the HO. From day one I knew there was a better way. Lol.


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## rjbphd

JDGA80 said:


> My first boss, not the one I'm drinking with at the sports bar now was so cheap his kitchen sink drain cleaner was four employees holding a cable with a dude outside with the Milwaukee right angle drill and the house lined in towels provided by the HO. From day one I knew there was a better way. Lol.


 That's bad! With 4 guys on payroll and can't get a rental machine???


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

JDGA80 said:


> My first boss, not the one I'm drinking with at the sports bar now was so cheap his kitchen sink drain cleaner was four employees holding a cable with a dude outside with the Milwaukee right angle drill and the house lined in towels provided by the HO. From day one I knew there was a better way. Lol.





You've got to be kidding:laughing:


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## redbeardplumber

rjbphd said:


> Any nobody use the sponge rubber CLOSET gasket from WB or Sexhaur??? Which are far better than any wax gasket!!


I would, I do know they work, however I seal the whole flange area (earlier pic) so wax is already out.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## johnlewismcleod

easttexasplumb said:


> If there is space between the flange and the floor then movement can occur and the flange break. If the flange is cast iron a hammer will remove it, if the flange is PVC a sawzall will remove it. These work good on PVC and ABS.


I've got a set of the good ones with carbide blades 1-1/2" - 4", but none of them will ream a closet flange :no:

The 3" reams 3-1/2" to clear a 3" hub, and the 4" reams 4-1/2" to clear a 4" hub...none will ream at 4" to clear the inside of 4" pipe :no:

I'd love to get my hands on one if it exists, though :yes:


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## JDGA80

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> You've got to be kidding:laughing:


Serious. Dude was primarily new construction though. We did that at numerous houses and he was contracted to do the plumbing for a huge builders apartment complexes and still did that. He would even use the management company's General Speedrooter91 ⅝ machine to unclog the mains. When I got my first machine (Ridgid K-400) he still didn't have one machine and I was still an apprentice. Lol. Pretty bad for a shop with 4 large bays and about 16 employees. To his credit he was trying to stay new construction but that housing collapse hurt him bad to the point where he's working out of his house like me and my other boss ( his old shop foreman)


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

easttexasplumb said:


> If there is space between the flange and the floor then movement can occur and the flange break. If the flange is cast iron a hammer will remove it, if the flange is PVC a sawzall will remove it. These work good on PVC and ABS.


If the flange is secured and installed properly it will not break. 


No horns for me. An old timer told me long ago to stay away from them and I always have.


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## JDGA80

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> If the flange is secured and installed properly it will not break.
> 
> No horns for me. An old timer told me long ago to stay away from them and I always have.


I was always told that too but the diameter of the bottom of the toilet, 2½ is about the same as the horn and shouldn't impede any type of flow.


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## deerslayer

JDGA80 said:


> I was always told that too but the diameter of the bottom of the toilet, 2½ is about the same as the horn and shouldn't impede any type of flow.


Save your breath as this is an endless argument with no right or wrong answer!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Many ways to skin a cat. If it works great for you good If your my app. Do it my way. Flange sits on ff with one wax no horn set fast bolts. And caulk wc. If it rocks I use a dime penny nickel or shims done 

We are plumbers and think our way is the best I think that's ok. It show confidence 

Ps if you don't do it my way ur just a dumbas!! Lol


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## easttexasplumb

johnlewismcleod said:


> I've got a set of the good ones with carbide blades 1-1/2" - 4", but none of them will ream a closet flange :no:
> 
> The 3" reams 3-1/2" to clear a 3" hub, and the 4" reams 4-1/2" to clear a 4" hub...none will ream at 4" to clear the inside of 4" pipe :no:
> 
> I'd love to get my hands on one if it exists, though :yes:


Use sawzall to cut out flange from inside, I use the socket saver instead of inside cutter to get pipe to proper height.


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## nhmaster3015

Who would have thought that setting a toilet would be worth 13 pages of discussion? :blink:


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## plbgbiz

nhmaster3015 said:


> Who would have thought that setting a toilet would be worth 13 pages of discussion? :blink:


Almost as bewildering as the 20 pages needed just to show the thread titles in the political section of a PLUMBING forum.

Boggles the mind don't it? :whistling2:


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

My ways still best:whistling2:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

I'm sure it is. Not. My way is the best. Even if we do it the same I still do it better. Lol. Lmao


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## mpot

For me:
If its new construction, flange goes on at trim out ALWAYS. six screws. I love the set fast bolts. No horn. No caulk (unless required by code, commercial around here) 
Service- if flange is flush or below, I recommend raising flange. If the customer refuses I print in very BOLD lettering that we are not liable for the inevitable leak that will result. The customer signs that receipt then we continue with the install.


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## RW Plumbing

Gettinit said:


> Most homes I can talk them into raising the few I run into. Businesses, you do what they let you do. I am not sure those bolts will even reach if the flange was level with the floor.


No offense but, I won't set a toilet if I can't do it properly. If a business won't let me do it the way I feel it should be done, I don't do it. I explain before I pull the toilet all the possibilities and why if the flange is low it has to be raised. If they don't agree, they aren't my customer.


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## RW Plumbing

I also use the extension rings by Souix chief. They are the outer stackable collar extensions. I use putty between them so it lasts. I also use huge brass lag bolts and an impact driver to screw them to the floor.


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## JDGA80

RW Plumbing said:


> I also use the extension rings by Souix chief. They are the outer stackable collar extensions. I use putty between them so it lasts. I also use huge brass lag bolts and an impact driver to screw them to the floor.


Have you ever tried Tapcon cement screws on slabs? They worked for me on a couple cast iron flange replacements in the hospital I work at.


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## johnlewismcleod

JDGA80 said:


> Have you ever tried Tapcon cement screws on slabs? They worked for me on a couple cast iron flange replacements in the hospital I work at.


That's all I use on concrete :yes:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Tap cons are great. Pricy but great.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

I've heard good things about tapcons.


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