# Another Wanabe



## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

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The lady had a sewer smell in her house and the main kept backing up.:whistling2: 

Who would have guessed? This plumbing looks good to me.:laughing::laughing:

By the way, the flow on that 3" line is toward us.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Is that a home made fitting, never seen anything like it.


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

*Great craftsmanship!*









"I can't seem to get very hot water. Is there something wrong with my water heater, I have two of them in my, 1100 square foot, one and one half bath house?":blink:


You should have hired a plumber to do the work, not just fix the problem.:no:


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

I have never seen this type of fitting before this one


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

The picture of the tankless water heater is actually two heaters back to back and being fed from a 1/2" natural gas line from the meter about 60' away.


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

Ron, you better get going, it's almost 10:00


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Ten min trip from here, me and another plumber will get it done, will make good money on this call. Not your normal hours, hell it's past my bedtime.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

That tankless waterheater pic just made me throw up in my mouth a little. Pics like these make me want to strangle unlicensed, uncertified people who install gas water heaters. And I know it only happens because the licensed plumbers in town are "too expensive and its SOOOO easy" according to self-righteous DIYers and 'handyman' hirers. :icon_rolleyes:


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

:laughing: I have never seen something so nasty in my life.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

OMG! That water heater piping is soo bad you would think that they did that on purpose and hid a camera to see plumbers faces for a tv show. LOL the ABS fitting was a san tee with a side inlet on it laid on its side though.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

That my friends is a sanitary tee on its side, and someone cut a hole in the top for the other line. How do I know? I had a similar thing here with 2" line. DA did not want to cut the line so he drilled into the top of a tee, droped a line in and sealed it with toilet wax!

Not only that, but if you examine the pix, they created a "S" trap!


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumber Jim said:


> the ABS fitting was a san tee with a side inlet on it laid on its side though.


There is no fitting of the sort, no where.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> There is no fitting of the sort, no where.


quite right Ron, there is no direction of flow on that fitting. I think its a sanatary tee drilled out.


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## rex (Jun 13, 2008)

ive seen them before........never used one though...


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

rex said:


> ive seen them before........never used one though...


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## rex (Jun 13, 2008)

dont see them often but i know for sure ive seen them some kind of vent T......ill take a pic with my phone next time......ive never used one nor would i


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

If there out there, you won't find then here.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

The fitting with the side inlet is also known as a cottage tee, you can also get them as wyes. In copper they are only available as tees however, and therefore not much use unless used on a stack.


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

*I( seen and have used them.*

We have them here. In ABS or PVC. (first of all tees are not allowed to be on there side or on there back in drain usage.) BAck to where I was going. They are called side tap tee's Basically it's a 3" sanitary tee with an 2" side inlet you can either get them with the inlet on the left or right. But in PVC you can get teh inlet on both sides with a double sanitary tee. I never use them for myself. But one company I use to work for used them on there under slabs. They also used them on apartment stacks


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Down here its a right-handed wisconsin. PVC or ABS make left handed too. Also a double wiconsin. All though its a no no to lay on its back. We stack inside wall to catch the toliet and arm over for the tub. Hence right handed or left handed


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## bobdog (Jun 18, 2008)

plumberman is right. its a wisconsin, they come in left or right hand, or double. legal as long as the inlet is above centerline of soil inlet.[and installed only in the vertical of course]


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

bobdog said:


> plumberman is right. its a wisconsin, they come in left or right hand, or double. legal as long as the inlet is above centerline of soil inlet.[and installed only in the vertical of course]


There is any number of names for it. If you are using cast iron soil pipe they can be had with a large variety of openings, both four inch and two inch, and they are generally called starting fittings. I've installed ones that had four four inch inlets and eight two inch inlets, along with four two inch vents out of the top of the fitting.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

here is a link for the side inlet san. tee

http://www.bow-group.com/pages/produits.aspx?LANG=EN&cat=52&pro=78


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Just different terms for the same fitting.... All is right.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

It's a nightmare fitting, if it was a code approved fitting here, it would be for venting only, never for drainage.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

True too.... I hardly ever use them but on a few houses we have. Luckily for me we mostly do commercial work. But I have seen the cast iron fitting Killer was talking about in a hospital. I didnt know something could have that many inlets and outlet...must have been five or so on a 4" fitting


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> It's a nightmare fitting, if it was a code approved fitting here, it would be for venting only, never for drainage.


That was the original intent of the fitting, to be used as a vent, but a side inlet fitting installed vertically on a stack can have the inlet used to pick up a waste by Chicago code, as a horizontal to vertical change of direction does not require a long sweep fitting. I see nothing wrong with that code either.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I feel for those that do drain cleaning and have to deal with this fitting if there a clog in the line and you have to pass through this to get it opened up.

We can go from horizontal drainage to vertical drainage via a santee, but were talking 2" to 4" here, use a junior machine hit this fitting and you won't know which why the cable went.

I don't know I see bad thing with this. But that's just me.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> True too.... I hardly ever use them but on a few houses we have. Luckily for me we mostly do commercial work. But I have seen the cast iron fitting Killer was talking about in a hospital. I didnt know something could have that many inlets and outlet...must have been five or so on a 4" fitting



When I did new high rise work I designed those fittings to suit my piping layout, Charlotte will make the fitting custom if you order a minimum of 500 of them at their quoted price.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> I feel for those that do drain cleaning and have to deal with this fitting if there a clog in the line and you have to pass through this to get it opened up.
> 
> We can go from horizontal drainage to vertical drainage via a santee, but were talking 2" to 4" here, use a junior machine hit this fitting and you won't know which why the cable went.
> 
> I don't know I see bad thing with this. But that's just me.


If you are trying to clear a blockage on a four inch line from a two inch opening you have bigger problems than that fitting.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Let just say who ever plumbed this line, graded it flat, line is so slugged up one pass does not cause it to open, one could think there not far enough into the drain, keep on running there cable, sending your junior cable into a 4" line could be asking for trouble.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Let just say who ever plumbed this line, graded it flat, line is so slugged up one pass does not cause it to open, one could think there not far enough into the drain, keep on running there cable, sending your junior cable into a 4" line could be asking for trouble.


A four inch line should have a full size cleanout at the base of the stack.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Oh eck, so they are for real! First time I saw one. I seen one someone made, but did not know there was a manufactured one.

Did anyone notice it was an "S" trap?


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Tell that to the drain cleaner up on the 18 floor that has no clue what there doing.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Tell that to the drain cleaner up on the 18 floor that has no clue what there doing.


He really has no clue, because if the stack is blocked it's overflowing the toilet on the first or second floor, and everything on 18 works just fine.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Oh but there is nothing wrong in the main, he can't understand why the line has not opened up yet, I guess he will know something is wrong when the cable begins to drop fast do to the weight of the cable down the stack, I'm talking about a newbie, not doing lines for any length of time, the type who the boss said go get this line open, call in when your done.


All kinds of scenario's can take place, education has to be a major factor in what ever one does.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Oh but there is nothing wrong in the main, he can't understand why the line has not opened up yet, I guess he will know something is wrong when the cable begins to drop fast do to the weight of the cable down the stack, I'm talking about a newbie, not doing lines for any length of time, the type who the boss said go get this line open, call in when your done.
> 
> 
> All kinds of scenario's can take place, education has to be a major factor in what ever one does.


Education is what separates plumbers from those that think they know plumbing. Any building over six floors is going to have a building engineer at least part time, who will call a plumbing contractor that knows the building to take care of problems.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I have used that fitting when I plumbed in New York. It can be an incredibly useful rough-in tool as long as you are careful to use it properly and pipe everything to code with the proper cleanouts, etc.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I've done hospital work with figure 8's and 5's, great fittings if installed correctly.


On the drain cleaning note.....are you guy's telling my that shoving the cable till the line clearts is not the correct way to clean a drain, even when you have 500' of cable in the line....I mean you gotta hit the stoppage sometime....right:laughing::laughing::laughing::no::no:


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Is that a home made fitting, never seen anything like it.


Ron, that ABS fitting in the photo is a Nibco 5871....santee with side inlet.

I wonder where any vent is in that photo!


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

grandpa said:


> Ron, that ABS fitting in the photo is a Nibco 5871....santee with side inlet.
> 
> I wonder where any vent is in that photo!



There not here, never seen one, and there not allowed for use here, could be the reason I have never come across one yet.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

...


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

...


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Out here that fitting is called an estabrook or acottage tee. It can be used vertically to accept waste from say a toilet on the 3" run and maybe a shower or tub on the 2" with the 3" vertical going to vent. On the face of it, it looks like a pretty usefull fitting but in truth I've had the same one on the truck for about 5 years now.


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## GrumpyPlumber (Jun 12, 2008)

*When the time comes and you need one, they're a lifesaver on a tight spot in a stack.*


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## plumbingpaul (Sep 18, 2008)

I beleive that ABS fitting is outlawed now and is only for use in vertical applications. Suppose to be for a WC, and was used to wet vent (which is now illegal) one other fixture. How old is that place?


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## "DAPlumber" 101 (Sep 4, 2008)

Make sure you wear all rubber when showering.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Wow  I bet there was no permits taken out for this work.


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## "DAPlumber" 101 (Sep 4, 2008)

Does anyone have to water the garden?


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

Re: Tankless Waterheater Shot, The Best Part Is The 3/4 X 1/2 Coupling On The Gas Inlet. I Actually Saw A New Journeyman Do That Once. He's Sellin Used Chevy's In Kadoka, Sd Now.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

A Good Plumber said:


> View attachment 50
> 
> 
> "I can't seem to get very hot water. Is there something wrong with my water heater, I have two of them in my, 1100 square foot, one and one half bath house?":blink:
> ...


 
Holy Christ......
Now, I get called out to alot of tankless disasters, but that one is real REAL bad. Did that dumbass connect them in series?

The moron did the electrical too.....see the 12-2 Romex going directly into the the front facing heater.....He came 3/4 out of the heater, to a 1/2" reducer, than right back to 3/4......Wow. I have actually shut people's hot water down because you might not know it, but that picture is a huge fire hazard. It would take me all day to explain what is happening in the heat exchanger, but I can tell you for fact that exchanger is double its normal operating range to the tune of around 1100`F.

What a waste of two Noritz heaters......:furious:


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## cincnc (Oct 14, 2008)

hey didn't you say the flow is coming towards us, and that's a san tee? there are so many more reasons that's all screwed up. so is there backfall on the three inch going towards the cameraman, or is there just some one under that house, who saw a fitting, 4 pipes and said hey let's glues all these together and prove **** goes up hill without a vent around that san tee... I don't know what codes y'all follow but here we're all ips 2003 and according to them abs is still legal we just don't use it cause the glue never comes off, and it ain't near as pretty to look at as a purple shirt. and about tankless's comment i dunno what 12-2 has anything to do with gas heat...

i mean if it's lp it's like 2500 btu's per ft3 and if it's ng than it's 1050 btus. whether or not it goes to a 3'4 nipple or not the gas valve will let in the right amount of ft3 per min of gas in as per the thermostat... he prolly ran 12-2 or yellow romex cause A.. he didn't know what he was doing, B. he didn't have any low voltage line, cause it's hard to find at lowes cause he doesn't know about a supply house... who prolly sold him his tankless... 

but if you're saying it's an electric element and the water is getting to 1100 degrees, i've never seen a electric tankless, or if you're saying that that the inlet was 3/4 goes to 1/2" than back to 3/4" that only reduces pressure, like a metering device on a split system... 

As far as i can see that whole rig is screwed up i've never seen prv's ran off 3/4 copper than to the tank i guess it would work in place of an expansion tank which doesn't make much sense with on demand hot water to begin with cause the think won't cut on with less than i thank like 1.2 gpm... so how could you ever get expansion... i can't trace out any of the lines it looks like 1 in 2 out... so if it's in series the guy's an idiot and couldn't put them on the same wall....

bottom line work like this keeps me in the black... cause i will always fix some idiots mistake for more than me getting to install it right the first time.


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## cincnc (Oct 14, 2008)

oh and one more thing, i don't see not one drip leg on that entire gas line as well as those aren't gas ball valves at least to my knowledge, they sure wouldn't pass any code here.


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## cincnc (Oct 14, 2008)

oh i meant t and p valves not prv on the 3/4. normally i just use the kits they cost a lil more but my work never ends up on one of the forums


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## JCsPlumbing (Jul 1, 2008)

*!*



USP45 said:


> Oh eck, so they are for real! First time I saw one. I seen one someone made, but did not know there was a manufactured one.
> 
> Did anyone notice it was an "S" trap?


Yes, it does appear to be an "S" trap. Also unvented. 

See that fitting _properly_ used all the time. Old timers apparently used it more. Now you can't use it much and stay within the tolerances of code for developed length and drilling. 

J.C.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

i love the vents in the system! must have been a residential artist.


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## EasyEman (Jun 1, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Is that a home made fitting, never seen anything like it.


 
We call them Cottage tee's or wisconsin's. Not supposed to be onit side though.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Is that a home made fitting, never seen anything like it.


That's a estabrook seen many of them in the Boston area mostly 3 family homes.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

EasyEman said:


> We call them Cottage tee's or wisconsin's. Not supposed to be onit side though.


We call them Wisconsin's also, or side inlet tee

How about a " Frog Eye" Remember those?


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

slickrick said:


> How about a " Frog Eye" Remember those?


I've got a 3"x 1 1/4" cast brass DWV frog eye tee in my shop. I'll never use it, but I can't bring myself to throw it in the scrap barrel.


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