# What city to move to?



## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Just joined the forums, so hello everyone.

A bit about myself - Drain cleaner for about 2 years. In Tacoma, WA, Oklahoma City, and Omaha, NE. 


Anyway - to cut directly to the chase - 

I'm in a position where I'm currently living in Omaha, NE, and looking to possibly move to a better area. Pay rates aren't the greatest here - commission - 20% - no overtime. Most other companies are hourly. Comparatively - up in WA before the great recession - rates were 28-33% - depending on volume, and we made time and a half for OT. Of course they cut a bunch of people when the recession hit, myself among them.


So anyway - since I have nothing tying me here, I am considering moving somewhere more lucrative. What are the best cities to work in as a drain cleaner? I would call around - but generally pay rates are something that are "Taboo" to ask until at least an interview - and that's not feasible when I am looking out of state.

I'm fairly good with sales, so I generally aim for commission based full-service style companies, stuff where you can up-sell a hydro for roots and such.

Just a side note - not wanting to work for "shady" companies. I want to make money and still be able to sleep well at night


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

Postanintro, Wa


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

Postanintro,AR.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

I figured that was an Intro. Is there some specific method to use here for it?


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Nevermind - found it.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

The great recession has been going on longer than two years. I know here in st louis some shops are 25% commission on drain cleaning and provided a truck and fuel. Not too bad.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I would guess one area is about as good as another right now. I live in one of the fastest growing ares in the country, but there is no shortage of plumbers or drain cleaners. Find a area with good growth and a balance of drain cleaners and get after it.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I think you are gettng the cart before the horse.

As a second year, you are not going to get top tier pay anywhere.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

> I think you are gettng the cart before the horse.
> 
> As a second year, you are not going to get top tier pay anywhere.


Well, the thing is, I'm not moving immediately. This is a long term goal to settle somewhere that I make the best income I can.

Also, the pay range here is just as important as what they start people out at.

Like if they only start 20%, but they cap at 30%, that's not too bad. I'm fairly good at sales though, so a "sliding rate" is best. Up in WA, for example, you made 28% on any sales of 1000 or less for the week. For 2000, it was 29%, all the way up to 33%. WA has some pretty good overtime laws too, so if you went over 40 hours, they took whatever your average hourly pay was, times it by 1.5x, and paid you that. So if you were getting 33% regular time, you'd get 48% OT. That was starting out - how long you were with the company didn't matter.

Also - what they charge makes a difference too. For a company doing nothing but $100 drain openings even 30% isn't that great. 

Oh - and having lived in 3 different areas - I've found that things DO vary greatly. Most companies within an area seem close to the same, but different cities entirely are completely different.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Texas you can get a drain cleaners license , and if you know your equipment like jetters and the rest especially commercial drain cleaning you can make very good money here in one of the larger cities.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Anyone who works in Kansas, Missouri, South Dakota, Colorado, Wyoming, or Iowa?

Just wanna check the closest states to me first.


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## Donahue756 (Feb 25, 2012)

Well right now am in Utah pretty close to Colorado the avg commission is 24% to 33% and the big companies out here advertise 49.99 to 69.00 any drain. its unreal, I don't like the bait and switch game but the general public can't get enough of it. Min of 1200.00 a day or your fired:furious:. I can't wait to get back to Ohio that's sad because its so beautiful here in Utah.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

$1200 a day? How many jobs do they give you in a day?

I get maybe 2-3....pretty rare I do 1200 in a day.

And yeah, I HATE the bait and switch crap too. Those companies tend to get really ****ty reviews though, and a LOT of business seems to come from Google these days.


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## Donahue756 (Feb 25, 2012)

2 to 3 jobs if your lucky most of the time working longer hours to get another call or on the weekends, and of coarse there is no overtime. It seems like the big companies and franchise's do very well out here. The small shops just get the scraps and customers still want stuff done for 49.00 due to the big guys ads,I been on both sides here. Lately I heard alot of the small shops are seeing 1 to 2 calls a day due to the big guys ads like one I heard on the radio a gerber viper toilet installed only 199.00 5 year warranty. WTF


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Great. It sounds like Wal-mart is taking over the plumbing world.


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

Still looking for more input from people here if you got it.

I work for Mr. Rooter currently, so if you also work for them somewhere else definitely interested in hearing from you


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

Tounces said:


> Still looking for more input from people here if you got it.
> 
> I work for Mr. Rooter currently, so if you also work for them somewhere else definitely interested in hearing from you


I worked for MR in Kansas City years ago. That city is nice because all the sewers are deep and most of the older neighborhoods are orangeburg pipe and terracotta with mature trees. Cast and steel drains inside for smaller drainwork.

But, if youre in your second year its time to start thinking about studying for your test and getting your own license. I cannot tell you how much I wish I had done it sooner in my career.

Why bust your ass to make another guy rich?
After all, if there is significant risk involved in working for someone else (and based on your post, seems like there is) why not assume your own risk and make your own money?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

First thing, pay rate is only one part of an equation for your personal profit. 
Pay-cost of living = extra money.

Second and most importantly, make more money by bettering yourself not moving where wages are better(at that time). 

Learn plumbing, HVAC, ect. If you are a one trick pony your pay is decided by how many others do the same job as you, where you live. 

eg. Why hire a drain guy when you can hire a plumber who does drains, this is even more true when state lic requirements are plumbing lic to run drains. 

If your young and free, move where you can learn the most and the weather is good.


I just read your intro, with four kids, you better be moving wherever is best for them. Any loss in pay will be offset by lack of bail and lawyer fees from living in a sh!tty area.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

justme said:


> Texas you can get a drain cleaners license , and if you know your equipment like jetters and the rest especially commercial drain cleaning you can make very good money here in one of the larger cities.


Yup. Houston is a gold mine, bar none. $1200 a day is a slow day. If you are a good salesman and honest like you say, and want as many hours as you can work, AND love or don't mind scorching heat and humidity, then Houston is #1!!

I did full service plumbing for 11 years here and with our terrible water and very good economy I made very good money the honest way. You can easily make $75K to $150K here a year doing service plumbing. I work with plumbers who make $250K to $350K a year working for a company. The cost of living is reasonable, too. Lots of new plumbers are relocating to Houston every day because of our economy. 

These days I stick to mostly drains because I am done working in attics and replacing water heaters. This last month I pulled in just under $40k for the company. I work commission and sell sewer line replacements and jetting service mostly but I am a Master so if a customer has other non-drain related plumbing issues I can fix those, too. I do all of my own work, except replacing a sewer or tunneling. We sub those out and I get a commission on the total. I just supervise the work. 

If you only want to do drain work, you can get your drain cleaner restricted license and still make very good money, though I do recommend getting your J-man and Master licenses, too. Houston's sewers are on average 3' deep at the house and have outside cleanouts. Many are concrete, SDR, or bad ABS sewer lines which means plenty of steady drainwork. What also helps is that due to the need for plumbers, a lot of jack leg plumbers work here and do some terrible work, which makes us good honest plumbers money. I do not like living in Houston at all and prefer a small town but if you want to make a lot of money in plumbing, come here. 

Mr Rooter is here and does well but there are lots and lots of service companies here so do your research before you apply. If you want any opinions from me as far as good companies to work for, PM me. I am pretty familiar with most. Most of the decision for where to apply depends on your goals and lifestyle. There's a company here to fit you and most are currently hiring including my current employer which is the biggest company here and one of the busiest.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

There's a good Union in Houston ,Local 68 .


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## Tounces (Aug 18, 2013)

As far as those suggesting becoming a J-man goes, here in Omaha it requires 4 years schooling, and taking a big pay hit at work. Not the sort of thing I can afford for the next 4 years.

All that - for a license that doesn't even transfer to other states, or even other cities, for that matter.

Now, in Oklahoma, I know a J-man license only requires 3 years working for plumbing companies, and an open book test.

Houston sounds pretty nice except for the "scorching heat and humidity" part. ...and the hurricanes. 

As far as researching companies goes...I've actually found that rather difficult. It's really hard to find out how a company works without actually working for them - even basic stuff like pay percent and whatnot.

I'm almost tempted to just call them out to my house for a "free estimate", and just "tip" the guy 50 bucks to find out about the place he works for.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Tounces said:


> As far as those suggesting becoming a J-man goes, here in Omaha it requires 4 years schooling, and taking a big pay hit at work. Not the sort of thing I can afford for the next 4 years. All that - for a license that doesn't even transfer to other states, or even other cities, for that matter. Now, in Oklahoma, I know a J-man license only requires 3 years working for plumbing companies, and an open book test. Houston sounds pretty nice except for the "scorching heat and humidity" part. ...and the hurricanes. As far as researching companies goes...I've actually found that rather difficult. It's really hard to find out how a company works without actually working for them - even basic stuff like pay percent and whatnot. I'm almost tempted to just call them out to my house for a "free estimate", and just "tip" the guy 50 bucks to find out about the place he works for.


Not sure of your total circumstance but as a contractor I will tell you this. If you are comfortable where your are at in your plumbing career and not interested in putting in the time, education plus effort to get your Journeyman's card then you will not be around long. You will continue to be limited with what calls you get and when things slow down you would be the first to sit at home. 
This is the best trade in the world. Take the time to learn it through an apprenticeship program and slow down on being in a hurry to get to the top. Enjoy the journey. Once you have paid your dues you should be able to make great money anywhere you choose to live.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

In Texas no schooling is required for j man unless ur union and the union requires it. You can transfer apprentice hours to Tx. Take test and be licensed. Thers a tradesman license here. It's just residential and a drain cleaners too. Ud have options here and be able to get licensed as tradesman and drain cleaner. U could do service in residential and drain cleaning every where Dallas Austin Houston dfw. Odessa midland. All pay very well but cost of living is higher. Up north pay is better but cost of living is crazy


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> In Texas no schooling is required for j man unless ur union and the union requires it. You can transfer apprentice hours to Tx. Take test and be licensed. Thers a tradesman license here. It's just residential and a drain cleaners too. Ud have options here and be able to get licensed as tradesman and drain cleaner. U could do service in residential and drain cleaning every where Dallas Austin Houston dfw. Odessa midland. All pay very well but cost of living is higher. Up north pay is better but cost of living is crazy


You have to have 48 hrs of class time now to get your Journeyman license in Texas. Before you can become a RMP after you get your masters there is another class you have to take now.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Yep. I took the 48 hrs from Johnny curtin. But it's just a few code classes. Not like union apprentice school. 
2 6hrs cont Ed classes
10 hr OSHA class
8 hr residential code class
18 hr commercial code class


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Yep. I took the 48 hrs from Johnny curtin. But it's just a few code classes. Not like union apprentice school.
> 2 6hrs cont Ed classes
> 10 hr OSHA class
> 8 hr residential code class
> 18 hr commercial code class


You must have gotten your license in the last few years then, they just started that a few years ago right?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

About 4. I was in the first wave of guys that did it. Phcc and pipe trades and aces didnt even have ther classes up and goin yet. Johnny curtin world for the board as an examiner and saw the $ so he took the masters test he helped write just for credentials and opened up his own biz teaching all the classes plus med gas and more. The 10 hr OSHA must be taken by a board aprooved teacher. If u already have it from mon board aprooved I doesn't count. 

I highly recommend his classes if u have apprentices needing them. I've seen material aces phcc and other give out. It's 5 times wat he hands out. I wrote the test and tells u what to study. Has pics of the doll house. The floor plan the fittings and knows exactly how they grade and what they are looking for May be silly to drive from dfw to Austin for his class but well worth it 
Let my results speak for his class and just a bit of my skill

In may il be ready to test for my masters and will drive 4 1/2 hrs to take his two day prep class


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> About 4. I was in the first wave of guys that did it. Phcc and pipe trades and aces didnt even have ther classes up and goin yet. Johnny curtin world for the board as an examiner and saw the $ so he took the masters test he helped write just for credentials and opened up his own biz teaching all the classes plus med gas and more. The 10 hr OSHA must be taken by a board aprooved teacher. If u already have it from mon board aprooved I doesn't count.
> 
> I highly recommend his classes if u have apprentices needing them. I've seen material aces phcc and other give out. It's 5 times wat he hands out. I wrote the test and tells u what to study. Has pics of the doll house. The floor plan the fittings and knows exactly how they grade and what they are looking for May be silly to drive from dfw to Austin for his class but well worth it
> Let my results speak for his class and just a bit of my skill
> ...


I like that you kept your test results. So did I, though, I got my license before the changes to the requirements, thankfully. I think the new requirements are a good thing. The failure rate was pretty high prior to the changes and hopefully the apprentices will now be better prepared for the test and for the field as a j-man. I help teach the math portion of the master prep course and from what I have read of your posts on here i think you will do fine on the exam. The specialty questions are what do most guys in but being you're a mechanical plumber you are probably already pretty familiar with the codes pertaining to OSHA and ADA which are tough on the exam. Or they were for me, and I help teach it!!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Where do u teach it at ?


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Where do u teach it at ?


I work for Plumber Trainer. The mans name I work for is Jay Wark. Guys from all over Texas come to our classes.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

There is always work in the New York City area. Unfortunately, the cost of living is fairly high. Salary varies from company to company. Some pay as little as 15 per hr, some as high as 25-30 per hr. It all depends on your experience and how descent the company is. Roto Rooter pays 30% commission here but you need your own late model truck, insurance, tools, gas, ect.... Plus they have real high prices, 380.00 minimum for any type of stoppage. That is prob 4 times the average for a tub stoppage around here so most people turn them away.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Yup. Houston is a gold mine, bar none. $1200 a day is a slow day. If you are a good salesman and honest like you say, and want as many hours as you can work, AND love or don't mind scorching heat and humidity, then Houston is #1!! I did full service plumbing for 11 years here and with our terrible water and very good economy I made very good money the honest way. You can easily make $75K to $150K here a year doing service plumbing. I work with plumbers who make $250K to $350K a year working for a company. The cost of living is reasonable, too. Lots of new plumbers are relocating to Houston every day because of our economy. These days I stick to mostly drains because I am done working in attics and replacing water heaters. This last month I pulled in just under $40k for the company. I work commission and sell sewer line replacements and jetting service mostly but I am a Master so if a customer has other non-drain related plumbing issues I can fix those, too. I do all of my own work, except replacing a sewer or tunneling. We sub those out and I get a commission on the total. I just supervise the work. If you only want to do drain work, you can get your drain cleaner restricted license and still make very good money, though I do recommend getting your J-man and Master licenses, too. Houston's sewers are on average 3' deep at the house and have outside cleanouts. Many are concrete, SDR, or bad ABS sewer lines which means plenty of steady drainwork. What also helps is that due to the need for plumbers, a lot of jack leg plumbers work here and do some terrible work, which makes us good honest plumbers money. I do not like living in Houston at all and prefer a small town but if you want to make a lot of money in plumbing, come here. Mr Rooter is here and does well but there are lots and lots of service companies here so do your research before you apply. If you want any opinions from me as far as good companies to work for, PM me. I am pretty familiar with most. Most of the decision for where to apply depends on your goals and lifestyle. There's a company here to fit you and most are currently hiring including my current employer which is the biggest company here and one of the busiest.


WHAT PLUMBERS ARE MAKING 250k--350k a year ?? 
WTF am I doing wrong ??


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Cal said:


> WHAT PLUMBERS ARE MAKING 250k--350k a year ?? WTF am I doing wrong ??


That's around $1,350.00 a day or the profit of about 4 water heaters a day


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Cal said:


> WHAT PLUMBERS ARE MAKING 250k--350k a year ?? WTF am I doing wrong ??


That's what I was thinking. $300k on a journeyman's paycheck seems pretty high. That would be $144 per hour wages. I think he must be referring to the gross dollar amount they are selling.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I always heard there were some guys in Overland Park, Kansas working for Roger the plumber making over 100k a year.

The best you will do around here working for someone would probably be about 60k


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> That's what I was thinking. $300k on a journeyman's paycheck seems pretty high. That would be $144 per hour wages. I think he must be referring to the gross dollar amount they are selling.


That's what I was thinking. However some guys at the now defunct Warner company were making that much as they where bankrupting the elderly before they got caught. 

Not that the fine plumbers in Houston are doing the same


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Cal said:


> WHAT PLUMBERS ARE MAKING 250k--350k a year ??
> WTF am I doing wrong ??


Haha. Well, I certainly don't make that much but yes, I do work with a few guys who do. The top salesman at my company brings in over $2 mil a year in plumbing alone but also sells A/C units in the summer months being he is licensed in both. For this conversation we will call him Bob. Our company is multi service: a/c and heating, elect, plumbing, and appliance. I do plumbing only. 

I probably would not have believed it myself but they print out everyone's sales numbers weekly and hand them out so we all see each others' numbers. Bob's average ticket is $5K. No joke. He brings in $100K a week sometimes. He does straight sales. When he worked in the field he did beautiful work and was very clean. He would bring in $5k - $7K a day. We get 20% commission off the top as field guys who sell AND do the work. Now he does straight sales so his commission is different. His work truck was always immaculate. He has the gift of gab but his main talent is knowing what someone will spend to fix their issue and getting it out of them. Not what they can afford or what the job should cost but what they will spend. He is crooked and can lie better than most. I do not respect him or the fact that the company allows him to sell people things they don't need but because he brings in the money he does they turn a blind eye. His calls are cherry picked for him but he will turn a clogged sewer into a $25K tunnel job and sewer replacement and then turn around and sell them a $30K A/C system.

The weirdest part is that the customers typically love him. They rarely, if ever, feel taken advantage of due to the fact Bob is very convincing and manipulative and does fix their issue. 'Course when you replace all the plumbing and A/C systems you usually do fix any problems!!

Bob is the top salesman but there are others, including field guys, who sell AND do all their own work that bring in around $1mil a year, too, for the company. As I have stated previously, Houston truly is a gold mine for service work. Lots of millionaires here. Lots of big oil companies and their executives. 

I will never be the top salesman because I do my job as honest as I would want someone to be with me or my family and I don't care about being top salesman at my job or making a ton of money. I just want the customer's issue fixed as permanently as they can afford and I make a very good living doing that. I prefer to be up front and honest about what needs fixing and I believe that I will always come out on top regardless of how much money I make. 

One thing about great salesman who have to lie in order to make a living is they are never truly happy no matter how much crap they accumulate because they are searching for happiness in material items and not from within themselves. However, I have learned a lot of great honest sales techniques from him and from other big money makers that I have made my own. You can learn from anyone.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> That's what I was thinking. $300k on a journeyman's paycheck seems pretty high. That would be $144 per hour wages. I think he must be referring to the gross dollar amount they are selling.


It is hard to believe but I do mean $300k a year for his pay. One time when I was in the office filling out my commission sheet I asked "Bob" how his week was. His response was, "Eh, not bad." I laughed and asked what "not bad" meant for him. He said, about $10K. I said, "Hell, I bring in that much for the company in a week sometimes." Then he said, no, that's my pay. I glanced at his sheet and he didn't lie. The dudes a master salesman. Just not the most honest one.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

If the customers are happy and satisfied with his efforts then what part of what he is doing is wrong? He is selling service not a commodity. If he doesn't have several law suits and crap like that on his shoulders and I were working with him I would see what he is eating for lunch and eat the same thing.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Haha. Well, I certainly don't make that much but yes, I do work with a few guys who do. The top salesman at my company brings in over $2 mil a year in plumbing alone but also sells A/C units in the summer months being he is licensed in both. For this conversation we will call him Bob. Our company is multi service: a/c and heating, elect, plumbing, and appliance. I do plumbing only.
> 
> I probably would not have believed it myself but they print out everyone's sales numbers weekly and hand them out so we all see each others' numbers. Bob's average ticket is $5K. No joke. He brings in $100K a week sometimes. He does straight sales. When he worked in the field he did beautiful work and was very clean. He would bring in $5k - $7K a day. We get 20% commission off the top as field guys who sell AND do the work. Now he does straight sales so his commission is different. His work truck was always immaculate. He has the gift of gab but his main talent is knowing what someone will spend to fix their issue and getting it out of them. Not what they can afford or what the job should cost but what they will spend. He is crooked and can lie better than most. I do not respect him or the fact that the company allows him to sell people things they don't need but because he brings in the money he does they turn a blind eye. His calls are cherry picked for him but he will turn a clogged sewer into a $25K tunnel job and sewer replacement and then turn around and sell them a $30K A/C system.
> 
> ...


Do you perhaps work for one of the rooter or franklin firms ?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

It matters. Sounds like he's selling something not needed. If he mis leads or lies to the home owner that's just plain wrong and un ethical. Just cuz u have the gift of gab and a forked tongue doesn't mean u have use it. 
I catch some one doin that to me or my family and friends and I tell everybody I know about it

Had an a/c company tell my my unit was bad and needed freon had a leak ect ect. During a home inspection when I was selling it. I know a bit about a/c (refrigerant ) systems and I called the tech asked him a few questions and his tone went from nice sales man to defensive crook. I asked him what my pressures where on the suction side and liquid side. He new rite then I wasn't stupid and he said. Idk. I didnt put gauges on it. I was livid. How the hell do u tell the buyer I have a leak and not check pressures He said cause the line wasn't cold enuf to the touch. I get the reason behind it but not when ur getting paid to check out a unit. Lazy MF I told him to. Told him I was a plumber and knew the game and that they make ther money on selling equipment and he makes commission I knew a lot and he was surprised. I tell all I know not to use that company. 

If I could have I'd pop that crook in the face!!! Pos MF a hole 

Any how back to point. If that guy does crap like what this ac guy tried on me. F him !!!


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> It matters. Sounds like he's selling something not needed. If he mis leads or lies to the home owner that's just plain wrong and un ethical. Just cuz u have the gift of gab and a forked tongue doesn't mean u have use it.
> I catch some one doin that to me or my family and friends and I tell everybody I know about it
> 
> Had an a/c company tell my my unit was bad and needed freon had a leak ect ect. During a home inspection when I was selling it. I know a bit about a/c (refrigerant ) systems and I called the tech asked him a few questions and his tone went from nice sales man to defensive crook. I asked him what my pressures where on the suction side and liquid side. He new rite then I wasn't stupid and he said. Idk. I didnt put gauges on it. I was livid. How the hell do u tell the buyer I have a leak and not check pressures He said cause the line wasn't cold enuf to the touch. I get the reason behind it but not when ur getting paid to check out a unit. Lazy MF I told him to. Told him I was a plumber and knew the game and that they make ther money on selling equipment and he makes commission I knew a lot and he was surprised. I tell all I know not to use that company.
> ...


It's the culture that is allowed to literally fester at these big service company's , I have had friends I got into the trade that worked for some of the rooter company's and it is pure phackin BS on what they do to some customers . Within the company it is alright to do it as long as no one complains , like selling a 60' 1 1/2" poly gas repipe from the meter to the house for 15000 dollars " I'm not throwing numbers out there either" with no concrete replacement this is a straight up ditch witch job . These company's allow this to happen as long as the guys are making money and the younger guys see these great salesman making huge checks "monkey see monkey do" . While most people wouldn't do the things the big salesman do ,they start with baby steps and start with little lies until a few years later without realizing it they are doing exactly what those salesman were doing . You shouldn't have to lie to make a sale , but that is what happens sometimes when you pay people based on commission "go make that sale" attitude. The love of money corrupts .

I'd like to add one thing , I was in service early in my career and I could see myself start to do things that my boss wanted me to "sleazy sales tactics" . I made a decision , I would get out of service and never do residential service again unless I owned the company. I saw myself on a slippery slope slowly sliding down and I didn't like where I was going. I chose not be a sleazy sales guy, I was very good at it because of the advanced knowledge I already had at a young age I could sell ice to Eskimos . I chose to do new construction, remodels and commercial service.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

justme said:


> Do you perhaps work for one of the rooter or franklin firms ?


I don't work for Mr Rooter, Ben Franklin, or Roto-rooter. I work for their competition. I totally agree with all the things y'all say about the crooked nature of large companies in big cities including my current employer. All these things I have said are reasons I am starting my own company in a small town outside of Houston. I, too, can't stand the fact my employer allows a salesman to get whatever he can out of a customer regardless of whether or not its ethical. The worst part is that the company constantly promotes how "We do the right thing!" Were i to go to management and really complain about it they would probably placate me by saying what they think I want to hear but in the end do nothing. This is one huge reason I am quitting when my current lease is up at my apt. 

I got my start in the trade at this company and have worked for them for many years but I now I am starting my own drain company in a small town outside of Houston. I have my Master License, RMP endorsement, and am accumulating all my equipment. 

I do my job the way I know is right and I don't worry about how others do theirs. I can't change it so all I can do is do what I know is ethical. To be fair, not once have I been told or encouraged to sell something the customer didn't need. If I had been than I wouldn't have stayed as long as I have. My boss likes me a lot because he knows I will get the job done right and I won't compromise my ethics. I do not have anyone breathing down my neck to meet revenue goals and to do whatever it takes to meet my goals. Most of the technicians at my company are honest but a small percentage aren't. The company does not encourage unethical behavior but they don't really discourage it on some levels. I do my job and am left alone. Which is what I have always liked about this company. If I have a slow month I am not sitting in the hot seat being grilled about why.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> It matters. Sounds like he's selling something not needed. If he mis leads or lies to the home owner that's just plain wrong and un ethical. Just cuz u have the gift of gab and a forked tongue doesn't mean u have use it.
> I catch some one doin that to me or my family and friends and I tell everybody I know about it
> 
> Had an a/c company tell my my unit was bad and needed freon had a leak ect ect. During a home inspection when I was selling it. I know a bit about a/c (refrigerant ) systems and I called the tech asked him a few questions and his tone went from nice sales man to defensive crook. I asked him what my pressures where on the suction side and liquid side. He new rite then I wasn't stupid and he said. Idk. I didnt put gauges on it. I was livid. How the hell do u tell the buyer I have a leak and not check pressures He said cause the line wasn't cold enuf to the touch. I get the reason behind it but not when ur getting paid to check out a unit. Lazy MF I told him to. Told him I was a plumber and knew the game and that they make ther money on selling equipment and he makes commission I knew a lot and he was surprised. I tell all I know not to use that company.
> ...


Totally agree with you. Its reprehensible. All I can do is do what I know to be right and not worry about how others do their job. I hate the stigma we have sometimes with being crooked. It is because of guys like the one I work with. Unfortunately, they will always be here. I accept that and focus on what I can do because in the end the crooked ones are never happy.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

HSI said:


> If the customers are happy and satisfied with his efforts then what part of what he is doing is wrong? He is selling service not a commodity. If he doesn't have several law suits and crap like that on his shoulders and I were working with him I would see what he is eating for lunch and eat the same thing.


You make a good point and he would agree with you. He doesn't hold a gun to their head. Neither did Jim Jones at first. Taking advantage of peoples' trust is still wrong and reprehensible. 

Example: He will run a camera down a cast iron drain and see build up on the walls and tell the customer who's watching that the line is corroded on the bottom and needs replacing. Being they aren't familiar with looking at sewer lines they believe him and go with his suggestion to tunnel and replace the line. He also shoots from the hip on pricing and doesn't use our price manual. A job I would price out at $2900 by using our price matrix he would come in at $6k and get it. 

As far as few complaints go, we have a fantastic customer satisfaction dept that does damage control for him and others when customers do get upset or feel taken advantage of. He never hears of it. He does have very few complaints but that doesnt justify his tactics. 

The company actually pays a licensed plumber to go around to all of our big excavation jobs to make sure they are bid ethically and are being done right. That's all he does. When that plumber, who we'll call Bill, sees an unethical job sold or one that was way way over priced he reports it to our boss and that's it. Nothing happens after that to the salesman who sold it. If the customer complains then the company will give discounts or whatever to placate the them but in the end nothing will happen to the guilty party. The company merely wants the appearance that they walk the line. This is what I call subtly encouraging unethical behavior. Usually the company can deal with any major complaints before they become law suits. We also do a lot of free hardship work for the city's health and human services dept for low income families. 

Personally, if I see a sewer line that only has build up , I explain what that is to the customer and give them good honest solutions, which is usually jetting. If they choose to get it replaced, great but I won't tell them they need to. One common lie a couple guys I work with use is that the city and TCEQ (Texas' version of the EPA) are requiring people to replace their concrete sewer lines so the customer should do it now before the requirement becomes law. I can't believe that people don't check up on this but unfortunately a lot of people are naive and are too trusting. 

Another tactic is to use the 3/8" cable to clear a root filled 4" sewer line. Of course it doesn't work well so then the salesman comes out, runs his camera and says, "Well, the line can't be cleared and NEEDS replacing", and shows the customer the roots in the line to convince them. Or they will use the lie about the city requiring replacement of concrete sewers. I can't do that crap. I have cleared lots of root filled lines completely and told many customers that the line is old and has roots but is in ok shape. I explain what the truth is about roots and let them decide if they want to go further. I do not tell them they have to replace it. I only say that if the line is crushed and unable to be cleaned. I also sleep very comfortably at night knowing that I can back up anything I tell a customer with facts and evidence. 

All these things I state are why he and others like him are crooks and merely because he is damn good at it and can get away with it doesn't make it OK in my book, but I don't think that is what you were necessarily trying to say. Also, I didn't explain initially how he was dishonest.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

I agree with you. 
A little dishonesty leads to bigger dishonesty. 
People like Bill make it tough for all of us.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

HSI said:


> I agree with you.
> A little dishonesty leads to bigger dishonesty.
> People like Bill make it tough for all of us.


I think you meant Bob but the point is made. Bill is the guy who goes and "checks on jobs" to make sure they're "ethical". Bill is a good guy who has to do a thankless job at times. He, like me, is also leaving soon to start his own company.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

HSI said:


> I agree with you.
> A little dishonesty leads to bigger dishonesty.
> People like Bill make it tough for all of us.


Thats right, just ask Monica ! :laughing:


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