# Hack Sent to Jail



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)




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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Way to go Cali, maybe the rest of the country will step it up now. That is great, sends a message to the hacks.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I think I'll put it on dvd's and mail it to our inspectors.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I am going to encourage our State rep to pursue this course of action. As for my fight with unlicensed, I have toned it down a bit. 

The call I placed to his office has not been returned, but mark my words its not over yet. 

Yet again, if the Licensed Plumbing Contractors in this State would simply take a little time and call and email their representatives we might just get something done. 

http://www.in.gov/sliverheader/Welcome.do?url=http://kyeo-in.egis.39dn.com

It is about time that we who play by the rules become the squeaky wheel. I think it is our duty as licensed professionals to go beyond our little slice of the world and put some effort forth to effect a positive change.

Of course, this will not happen. The licensed Plumbers in my State will continue to sit on their  and complain. Really, how much time does it take to make a phone call, or send some emails. You could shave a bit of time of internet play and do something good for consumers.


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## michelchap (Dec 21, 2008)

*Thats a little too strict.*

These guys shouldn't be arrested as felons. That is crazy !!!


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

michelchap said:


> These guys shouldn't be arrested as felons. That is crazy !!!


A crime is a crime. Why shouldn't they be arrested as felons. Licensing and enforcement is a way of trying to ensure that the public is protected from those that would not do a job that is safe. 

Would you feel different if someone in your family was hurt from shoddy work practices?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

michelchap said:


> These guys shouldn't be arrested as felons. That is crazy !!!


Care to elaborate? Is it that you feel they are just down on their luck and we should be glad they're not on the welfare roles?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

michelchap said:


> These guys shouldn't be arrested as felons. That is crazy !!!


 



If it is a first offense, probably a judge will let them plead it down to a misdemeanor.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Give me a break...that is California...the reporterette said that also one of the workers was carrying a marijuana pipe...I thought that was proof you were a California citizen...

Sting operations to get unlicensed contractors carrying marijuana pipes in California...have you stopped laughing yet? A few sting operations on the city and state officials please....oh and maybe on the drug traffic that has no speed limit. Yeah, I dont like unlicensed activity, but I dont like hypocritical self righteous sting operation media shows to make people think someones really "on it"....gotta be kidding.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

You know Cali is broke, this must be the new stimulus plan they have enacted.............


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Titan Plumbing said:


> You know Cali is broke, this must be the new stimulus plan they have enacted.............


 Or the prisons need remodeling


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Really, its a good idea for all States to do. I don't know about jail, but fines would be nice. Nothing outrageous, maybe a 1,000 a violation. Set up a sting once a month bust 20 unlicensed, if they pay you got 20,000. If not, you issue bench warrants and if they get picked up for something else, "We want our money.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Well, 1st separate the deposit collectors who skip out from the work so I can eat crowd....then explain to them why they cant find work....then tell them all the licensed contractors want them hung...and they will be back out doing it to eat as fast as their stomach starts growling.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Yeah, I think a *felony* charge is a bit harsh, but a stiff fine or really unpleasant community service might be in order.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I have to have:
Workers comp
State contractor license
County business license
CPA
pay tax
Obey by the license laws
maintain book keeping records


What the hell do they need to have??
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
Makes me sick. I also think that anyone hiring ANY illegal workers should also be FINED and IMPRISONED! Along with paying any back tax and other money not paid.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

greenscoutII said:


> Yeah, I think a *felony* charge is a bit harsh, but a stiff fine or really unpleasant community service might be in order.


I don't think so. In Texas it would almost certainly disqualify them from getting a license in the future. One less problem to deal with, at least legally. Think of it like this, if they are willing to do work without a lic. then what do you think they would be doing if they had a lic.? hard to change the stripes of a tiger.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

greenscoutII said:


> Yeah, I think a *felony* charge is a bit harsh, but a stiff fine or really unpleasant community service might be in order.



WHAT??
They are taking money from our pockets! We obide by the law and obtain all licenses and pay fees, and they dont pay a damn thing and you think a felony is a bit tough

To hell with them. How much money have they taken from us already? I am also a VA state licensed building contractor who has lost MANY jobs to people without a license. 

I realize a lot of it is the HO wanting things done cheaper, so they turn to the unlicensed hacks to save a buck, but then they cry to that they were ripped off when the work is not done right!!

serves the ho AND THE UNLICENSED HACK RIGHT:thumbsup:


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

michelchap said:


> These guys shouldn't be arrested as felons. That is crazy !!!


 And I say again my friend


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Bill said:


> WHAT??
> They are taking money from our pockets! We obide by the law and obtain all licenses and pay fees, and they dont pay a damn thing and you think a felony is a bit tough
> 
> To hell with them. How much money have they taken from us already? I am also a VA state licensed building contractor who has lost MANY jobs to people without a license.
> ...


Ok Bill, I can see you have a point.

I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of having to support these guys at the Gray Bar hotel at tax payer expense, thats all.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

greenscoutII said:


> Ok Bill, I can see you have a point.
> 
> I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of having to support these guys at the Gray Bar hotel at tax payer expense, thats all.


I understand your view too, we are damned if we do, and damned if we dont. Just because you are arrested and convicted of a felony does not mean jail time.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

maybe bring back the "Public Humiliation" treatment again. Seems to work for other criminals.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Bill said:


> I understand your view too, we are damned if we do, and damned if we dont. Just because you are arrested and convicted of a felony does not mean jail time.


Yeah, good point. Hard to know how to solve the problem in the best way.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Bill said:


> maybe bring back the "Public Humiliation" treatment again. Seems to work for other criminals.


Maybe we should sentence them to pumping out port-a-potties. I can't think of many jobs that would suck worse than that.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

What I feel would work??

Create a state by state website that would list ALL unlicensed persons along with description such as age, picture, height weight, hair and eye color, number of offenses, areas of offenses and so forth. This way HO's can log on and check to see if these people were ever convicted of working without a license. 

That would put a dent in their efforts!


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Also create a data base of all licensed business who are caught hiring ill eagle workers as well.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Bill said:


> Also create a data base of all licensed business who are caught hiring ill eagle workers as well.


That's no joke. I was on a jobsite one time when INS showed up and all of the framers, roofers, drywallers, and concrete guys just disappeared. I thought if we could enforce the laws we have against this sort of thing, how many Americans could be back at work for decent wages?


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

A lot. Unemployment would all but disappear.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Bill said:


> I have to have:
> Workers comp
> State contractor license
> County business license
> ...


 Yeah yeah yeah....string em up....then look back at your perfect life with total satisfaction that you did the *right* thing.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

If there is a law in place, then enforce it without partiality. If the law is too harsh, then change it or trust the judge to adjudicate it properly......but dont outrage at some guy who needs a buck..just enforce the law...thats what this absolute idiot video is all about....the Archie Bunkers who watch it as some sport game and hollars at the tv ...yeah lock em up.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

greenscoutII said:


> That's no joke. I was on a jobsite one time when INS showed up and all of the framers, roofers, drywallers, and concrete guys just disappeared.


La Megra La Megra!!!!!!!!! (Border Patrol)


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Why dont we just simply petition the government to change our name to "United States of mexico"?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Bill said:


> Why dont we just simply petition the government to change our name to "United States of mexico"?


It's coming,, in many jobs employment means being bilingual. With the 2nd being spanish. Really gripes me.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Am I not getting something here? Over 40% pregnancies in NY are aborted. The US is at stagnant population growth....who is going to do the migrant jobs....while blaming the Mehicanos ...they are keeping agriculture viable ...and while they are here what does anyone expect...
The bigger picture ( to me ) places blame on our government...
The seeds of this destruction were planted long ago..so why is it time finally to fry the perp. 
This country cant stand much more..has nothing to do with some guy looking for some work illegally. China got what it wanted from the US and was practically encouraged to back the EU based on the US fiscal policy. This administration and previous have paved the way for whats happening...and the media freaks trying to entertain are going to have a field day shortly. These sting stories are distractions.....


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Am I not getting something here? Over 40% pregnancies in NY are aborted. The US is at stagnant population growth....who is going to do the migrant jobs....while blaming the Mehicanos ...they are keeping agriculture viable ...and while they are here what does anyone expect...
> The bigger picture ( to me ) places blame on our government...
> The seeds of this destruction were planted long ago..so why is it time finally to fry the perp.
> This country cant stand much more..has nothing to do with some guy looking for some work illegally. China got what it wanted from the US and was practically encouraged to back the EU based on the US fiscal policy. This administration and previous have paved the way for whats happening...and the media freaks trying to entertain are going to have a field day shortly. These sting stories are distractions.....


It's not going away. We have trained our young people from birth that it is beneath them to work in the type of jobs that the Mexicans will do...............no one to blame but ourselves.

At my children's school they don't even have a trades training course available...they can learn to sew, cut hair, work on cars and computers...but not one class for electrical, plumbing or H/VAC.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I'm fine with immigrants working here, yes they contribute to our needs here in the trades. But I want them to enter legally like the system was set up. You ever been to a ball game and during the national anthem look over to notice a immigrant with a snub look on his face and not about to honor our country by removing his hat or placing his hand over heart. My thought,,, throw his A## in the truck and haul him back to the border. If you don't believe in us, then get out. Period. I have to admitt, I get teary eyed during these moments of tribute and take it extremely serious. I have noticed over time that most immigrants themselves are grateful to be here,,, it's their kids that hate us thus the gangs.


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## woberkrom (Nov 19, 2010)

The reason Social Security is such a mess (and to some extent our federal budget), is because the baby boomers are living longer and racking up bigger bills in addition to the fact that less workers are paying in per person receiving benefits (historically speaking).

At some point, it will become impossible for the politicians (Republicans and Democrats) to not legalize the illegals in some capacity. Simply put, that is where the money is. That is one way to bridge the shortfall.

It's just a matter of time. It's all about the money.

--Will


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## apollo (Jan 10, 2011)

We, as professional licensed master plumbers, should be jumping up and down in excitement hoping to someday follow in California's footsteps. I broke my butt going on estimates and taking my time to go and look and design jobs, all to find out that the job was given to a local handyman or unlicensed plumber, wheather it be a out of work union plumber, or a lowlife wanna be plumber. I have had to change the way I run my business because of it. As a owner I do not get unemployment if there is no work for me. These guys are not only getting unemployment, but they also do not have to pay my insurance, my health or my taxes. Yet they lowball the job and take cash. I love it when I see out of state, or even in state, passenger vans with no lettering, a roof rack with legnths of pvc and copper on the roof, 5 ladders, with a bunch (6 or more) of immigrants, who don't speak english, taking my business away from me. All to save a couple of bucks. Shame on the AMERICAN HOMEOWNER. What if the show were on the other foot. I hope all you professionals are overwhelmed with work , because it is not that great here, and every job counts. We worked real hard to get our licenses and pay the price by trying to do everything legit. What happens here if you get caught....license revoked, fines, imprisonment,etc...what happens if they get caught, slap on the wrist, small fine. Nothing to lose. We lose it all. It disappoints me to see my bretheren saying that California is crazy for arresting unlicensed contractors. Unlicensed contractors take our power away as a group for not only jobs, but pricing, quality, and control. DO doctors and lawyers have these problems? Do you ever shop around if you need a doctor? I didn't think so....Hail California. On this subject....I wish we would follow your footsteps...


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

apollo said:


> We, as professional licensed master plumbers, should be jumping up and down in excitement hoping to someday follow in California's footsteps.
> 
> _*I hope not*_
> 
> ...


If we could just stop the unlicensed activity..the world would be such a better place.:whistling2:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

greenscoutII said:


> ...I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of having to support these guys at the Gray Bar hotel at tax payer expense, thats all.


We support them either way. Either by paying taxes to get them penalized, or by giving up the work we earned the right to perform.


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## Nayman's Drain (Dec 17, 2010)

As a Canadian looking south, as well as an immigrant, I see several things going on in the USA, as well as Canada.

I don't know if any of you guys remember the general amnesty for illegals a few years ago.(In the mid 90s) How many THOUSANDS got their legal status back then?
Then, go back 10 or so years further to the general amnesty then.
Again, how many thousands gained their legal status after coming to the US illegally.
It begs the question of how many times is the Grabberment going to have amnesties?
Illegals should be treated as such. Your government does do this on occasion. The Canadian Grabberment however does very little with regard to illegal border jumpers.
You can apply for asylum, get approximately 1800/month in aid since you can not legally work. Then, when all your appeals for turned down asylum are exhausted, you can conveniently disappear.( the Canadian Immigration Dept has thousands upon thousands of cases where they can't find people that are due to be expelled)

So here I am, everything paid up, licensed,bonded,insured to the hilt competing with a fly-by-nighter who works for cash, rips off the Hoe Moaner as well as me (UNPAID TAXES) and gives our already tattered profession a black eye yet again.
Look at the "work" they do. Generally shoddy, with Code violations coming out the YingYang. And some of you don't want these guys busted & charged? They are taking the food off your table, people!!!! They are trying to make sure your kids don't get enough food in their bellies.
Sure, sending them to jail is going to cost money too, but if the left wing thinking judiciary would sentence them to labor while in Crowbar Hotel, they could at least repay some of their "room & board". Putting them to work on a chain-gang is not too far fetched. Some of the states still have them, and some provinces in Canada have road crews as well.
Un-licensed contractors are a scourge, and should be eradicated at any cost, because when it gets right down to it, the people they are hurting the most, is YOU.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Nayman's Drain said:


> As a Canadian looking south, as well as an immigrant, I see several things going on in the USA, as well as Canada.
> 
> I don't know if any of you guys remember the general amnesty for illegals a few years ago.(In the mid 90s) How many THOUSANDS got their legal status back then?
> Then, go back 10 or so years further to the general amnesty then.
> ...


 A scourge....eradicated.....I havent been hurt to the point of eradicating anyone....havent you got anything better to think about how to eradicate the scourge...are you human??? Maybe Canada can start a sting tv show and you could host it....if the scourge is overtaking all you eradicators you must be some kind of piss poor businessmen/plumbers.


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## CaptainBob (Jan 3, 2011)

I agree, something has to be done about the unlicensed and illegals. I believe if you are doing it professionally, you should be licensed, insured, etc, contrary to what some others might think that I think, considering some of the flack that I took on another thread on here about homeowners doing work on their own homes.
I see, as I usually see it, as government being the problem. There has been several times I have called the state, here in MN, about unlicensed plumbers. I could give them exactly the place and the time where there was an unlicensed plumber working and they would never show up. I believe there are very few tickets issued for unlicensed plumbers issued in this state, yet I see it going on all the time. I see it as the bureaucrats just don't want to do anything. They sit in their plush offices and collect their paychecks and benefits and cushy pensions when they retire, and nothing stops that even when they don't do their job.
The same with the illegals. The government doesn't want to do anything. There is a tendency, mostly with liberals and democrats, to look the other way when it comes to illegal immigrants. 
I take issue with those of you on here that criticize people for working on their own homes, but I bet you same people have nothing to say about illegals. Complain about homeowners doing their own work and something needs to be done about it, but do nothing when it comes to illegal immigration.
I've heard rumors of the unions of various trades signing up illegals. Guys that questioned it were told to shut up. Just a rumor I heard going around.
Look at the big uproar over the Arizona immigration law. Basically it is enforcing the Federal law, that the feds were not enforcing.
And what about all these sanctuary cities that allow safe haven to illegals? What is that all about? The city of St.Paul, MN is a sanctuary city. The mayor of St.Paul criticized Arizona for its law. He said St. Paul was not going to do any business with Arizona because of their 'racist' views. So, disagree with them on the issue and they call you racist. That's cheap.


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## Nayman's Drain (Dec 17, 2010)

Then I suppose I'm a racist.
Having said that, I do not see anything wrong with LEGAL immigration.
However, ILLEGAL immigration is queue jumping. And, as usual, the tax payer pays for these people. For their kids' schooling, health care, etc., while they contribute.............NOTHING. They don't pay their fair share of taxes for education and the general well being of everyone, but they sure take advantage of what they don't pay for.
That must be my fault, according to Stillaround. I'm a pisspoor business man because illegals take without contributing.
Interesting concept.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Nice try Nayman. Post #29 covers illegal immigration and illegal contracting. I take issue with the hyperbole and crowd mentality..you might be a racist, but immigration and unlicensed contracting while overlapping are still separate issues. Lashing out at someone else because of your personal frustrations dont help much. Chain gangs etc. and all the inflammatory rhetoric is just a sign that when the right button gets pushed you'll go off. 

Immigration is a tough situation if someone wants to keep legal,economic and human rights issues in the mix...which is still the American way. No political party here has the brains or guts to lead. The unlicensed activity is not the same. If I call on unlicensed activity here they will quickly respond. 
Someday compare the dollars lost in immigration/welfare with the absolute lunacy spending that goes on here and see if it sparks your outrage. If it doesnt then you are probably a racist. If it does it certainly neuters all this immigration clamor and might just help your business skills.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Due to long work hours and lack of funds for internet service, I have not been in the forum for quite a while but I must say, this topic is juicy. arty:


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## Nayman's Drain (Dec 17, 2010)

stillaround said:


> Nice try Nayman. Post #29 covers illegal immigration and illegal contracting. I take issue with the hyperbole and crowd mentality..you might be a racist, but immigration and unlicensed contracting while overlapping are still separate issues. Lashing out at someone else because of your personal frustrations dont help much. Chain gangs etc. and all the inflammatory rhetoric is just a sign that when the right button gets pushed you'll go off.
> 
> Immigration is a tough situation if someone wants to keep legal,economic and human rights issues in the mix...which is still the American way. No political party here has the brains or guts to lead. The unlicensed activity is not the same. If I call on unlicensed activity here they will quickly respond.
> Someday compare the dollars lost in immigration/welfare with the absolute lunacy spending that goes on here and see if it sparks your outrage. If it doesnt then you are probably a racist. If it does it certainly neuters all this immigration clamor and might just help your business skills.


Actually, my business skills are just fine. And I'm not racist either.
If you re-read, you will find that I was not just referring to illegal migrants only. I was also referring to illegal contractors. And yes, in MY mind, they come down to the same issue. 
People taking without contributing. They, in my way of thinking, are leeches. Much like economic "refugees".
Think about it, Stillaround. You have just completed a rather exhaustive quote, spent hours on it and presented it to your client. He has knowledge of a "cash only" contractor who says that he can undercut you by a few grand. Now HE gets the job. He works for cash, does a ****ty job, has zero liability insurance let alone Workers Comp. He flaunts local laws by not getting a business license, State & Federal laws by not paying income taxes,(be it personal OR corporate). He's NOT a certified plumber, rather, he's a "handyman" or what you would call, a HACK. And the job you worked so hard to land has now been taken by someone that just stole the food right off your table.
In his own way, he is no different than the so-called "********" who come to the USA to work illegally. Under the table and off the radar. He takes American money and pays ZERO income taxes. IF he is like 75% of his ilk, he sends that money out of the country. He takes FULL advantage of whatever healthcare he can get, he sends his kids to an American school that he does not support(he doesn't pay taxes, remember?) In other words, he's a leech. A burden on the guy that does everything legally and by the book.
And this happens on both sides of the 49th parallel.
Did you know that a guy (like me)who applies to work in the USA can't get a Green Card?
I have enough to start up a company and hire 20 people right off the top. I guess I am the wrong color and speak the wrong lingo. 
And so, I will continue to try to get guys like you to see that I am not a bigot/racist/ultra-nationalist or whatever you want to call me. And yes, I believe that EVERY person should be allowed to make a living. HOWEVER, I do not believe that free enterprise should consist of an uneven playing field. If what's good for the goose is good for the gander, then everyone should be licensed or NONE SHOULD. Either we ALL pay taxes/permits/etc. or no one should. Either we all get certified, or we all play "handyman".

I'm very sorry if this disturbs your delicate sensibilities, but dammit man, wake up & smell the coffee. 
Illegals from every walk of life/creed/religion are out to screw everyone that's legal. Add ALL your bills for staying in business together, just for one year. NOW compare it to what illegals are paying. See what I've been trying to tell you?
****, maybe I'm just coming at this from the wrong angle and someone else has a better way to explain it to you.

In any case, I hope I pleaded my case successfully. Have a happy 2011, and may your taxes equal the same as the illegal contractors you're trying to defend.

Nayman


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

stillaround said:


> ...If I call on unlicensed activity here they will quickly respond...


I wish we had unlicensed activity under control like Florida does.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Nayman...how many jobs did you lose last year to unlicensed activity. Sounds like you make up this scenario in your mind like others have and outrage over it. What are the real numbers and then compare it to some real wasteful spending. Once you invent the hypothetical then you react with inflamed language...eradicate, scourge, chain gangs....to what purpose does this further justice? Its a pile on and a mental laziness. Not all illegals are out to screw everyone. If you lose a job of any consequence and find out an unlicensed person got it then you can follow the proper protocol. How often have you checked.
What is everyone afraid of...

In this country , instead of raising taxes we pay 25% more for groceries and utilities...no immigrant slight of hand there...and the housing market bust wasnt a result of unlicensed or immigrant infiltration. There are more important things to focus on...and falling for the sting operation , get the hacks, illegals etc is penny wise and pound foolish or straining at gnats and swallowing camels . Take your choice of metephor. There are real people trying to survive and work to get it. If they break the law they are at risk...but your speech rings vigilante......not justice.


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## VIPlumber (Mar 14, 2010)

> but your speech rings vigilante......not justice.


:thumbup:


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