# Flushometers



## jtplumber (Jan 21, 2014)

I know I can look on websit prob or call rep however I want info from pz's pros. I installed an American standard urinal 1.0.gpf. I have it coming off 1" copper main , 3/4 supply w maybe 45" of pipe to stop. The dang thing will not clean receptor w one flush. Question: is there a cheat to get more gpf. Like flow restricter in a shower head??


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## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

If you installed a urinal why are you asking about a receptor? Did you mean receptacle maybe? And by receptacle i'll assume you're referring to the urinal itself, correct?

I'm just trying to make sense out of what your real life problem is out of the shreds of evidence you used to articulate the situation... i'm unsure if you installed the urinal or flushometer based on what you said and the title of the thread i'm leaning towards flushomter however some information is required to advise you correctly on further steps of action..

Did it work properly before you did any work on it? I always flush a urinal or toilet several times at the start of any trouble-shoot to understand the present conditions. Is this a new install or a retro-fit to existing? Is it a washout or washdown urinal?
Manual or Electronic flushometer? High efficiency style or not? Did you replace the Chrome Angle Stop, or retro onto old? 

Is the FV rated or matched to the urinal is what you need to verify first and foremost assuming all other conditions are met that are supposed to be. There are new styles of urinals and flushometers these days that are ultra high efficient and are incompatible with most other styles/manufacturers.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Is the screwdriver stop turned down too far. I have seen a lot of urinals, especially Cranes, that you have to really throttle it down, or the water washes out the side, right under the flood rim.

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## jtplumber (Jan 21, 2014)

It's a manual washout. Everything is new install. It's 1.0gpf. I've threaded stop from off to completely open. At start up it was flushed numerous times. ( that's how I know it doesn't fully clean ). I installed tons of flushometers and never had this problem. I have broke down all parts to check for clogs or debri. I don't know much about diaphragms other than to swap em out so I don't know what to look for as to if it's restricted some how by manufacturer or what the deal is.


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## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

Verify required operating pressure for flushometer from manufactured specs, then do a pressure test on the supply piping to make sure that you are receiving min pressure to chrome stop. Verify the urinal and flushometer are compatible, flush water supply thoroughly before re-installing . Take flushometer apart and clean debris inspect for blockages or damages/cracks to the diaphragm, re-assemble

. There is no such available cheat to increase gpm each valve is designed specific to perform a limited function all you can do to throttle or adjust pressure is adjust the flat head angle stop but you've done tons so im sure thats nothing new. 

You could have a factory lemon EFV. If you hold the handle down long enough can you overflow the urinal eventually? How is it not cleaning? I mean it is a urinal, clean isn't usually a term associated with it.

I like to keep urinal pressure down to a min, cuz nothing is worse than taking a leak and having it slosh all over when you flush lol or worse yet doing a wAter shutdown to do work turning water back on and being the first to walk by an auto EFV and all the air in the lines blows out the urinal when flushed... I've seen piss blow out on the mirror and ceiling lol


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

What did you use to set the urinal? Wax? or felt? or the foam gasket? I have ran into many improper flushing urinals due to wax ring had blocked the flow of water.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> What did you use to set the urinal? Wax? or felt? or the foam gasket? I have ran into many improper flushing urinals due to wax ring had blocked the flow of water.


I have made tons of money on urinals that were set with wax rings, I love them!

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## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

Anyone who needs to use wax is an amateur... Its fairly uncommon up north here in Canada.. But i did fix a urinal leak last week that had ZERO seal left , nadda, none , zilch! They used what appeared to be the remnants of PLUMBERS PUTTY  it became dry hard and crumbled away... Some people i tell ya!


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

SSP said:


> Anyone who needs to use wax is an amateur... Its fairly uncommon up north here in Canada.. But i did fix a urinal leak last week that had ZERO seal left , nadda, none , zilch! They used what appeared to be the remnants of PLUMBERS PUTTY  it became dry hard and crumbled away... Some people i tell ya!


I have used putty when the flange was sticking out too far, and when I tried a sponge washer, the bottom of the urinal wasn't flush with the wall. I made a ring of putty, and it sealed the flange while letting it sit flush.

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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I prefer the old oiled felt gaskets. I never had an issue with them.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

I've asked our supply houses for foam or rubber gaskets. They only carry wax. I use a tank to bowl gasket. Works fine.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Some sound advise here. I've had a few urinals that were cast wrong. Especially with low flow units, casting defects can cause urinals to not evacuate properly. And, if that's the case, you'll only know after you've checked everything else and spent more time checking than you did installing. Then, to get the rep to pony up will be another hurdle.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

I'm not a commercial guy, what's wrong with wax?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

love2surf927 said:


> I'm not a commercial guy, what's wrong with wax?














They tend to leak more than neoprene {neoprene gaskets are what I prefer} gaskets. That's been my experience.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Double post.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

They tend to block the outlet of the urinal.


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## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

*Provided manufacturer gasket or wax seal only approved methods*



422 plumber said:


> I have used putty when the flange was sticking out too far, and when I tried a sponge washer, the bottom of the urinal wasn't flush with the wall. I made a ring of putty, and it sealed the flange while letting it sit flush.


:blink:.........:no:

My friend, putty doesn't last or work well long-term by any means. It may do in a pinch temporarily or seem like its a good idea, just like using silicone as a seal would work, but it'd screw anyone over afterwards that had to service it! :yes:

If the drain sticks out too much, as a professional you are the only one capable of rectifying the rough-in, so why not do it right and simply charge more for the extra time? Its not very hard nor time consuming to recess the urinal flange into the wall flush so you have a clean look afterwards as designed. Plus it demonstrates good workmanship and separates you from the line of hacks before you who were too lazy or dumb to rough it in properly the first time :thumbsup:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

SSP said:


> :blink:.........:no:
> 
> My friend, putty doesn't last or work well long-term by any means. It may do in a pinch temporarily or seem like its a good idea, just like using silicone as a seal would work, but it'd screw anyone over afterwards that had to service it! :yes:
> 
> If the drain sticks out too much, as a professional you are the only one capable of rectifying the rough-in, so why not do it right and simply charge more for the extra time? Its not very hard nor time consuming to recess the urinal flange into the wall flush so you have a clean look afterwards as designed. Plus it demonstrates good workmanship and separates you from the line of hacks before you who were too lazy or dumb to rough it in properly the first time :thumbsup:


I can see changing the flange being easy if it was pvc. But what about copper waste lines, or galvinized and cast iron? Both would require the wall to be opened up. And if I know the type of places he would run into something like that, the wall would be cinder block or some sort of brick.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

SSP said:


> :blink:.........:no:
> 
> My friend, putty doesn't last or work well long-term by any means. It may do in a pinch temporarily or seem like its a good idea, just like using silicone as a seal would work, but it'd screw anyone over afterwards that had to service it! :yes:
> 
> If the drain sticks out too much, as a professional you are the only one capable of rectifying the rough-in, so why not do it right and simply charge more for the extra time? Its not very hard nor time consuming to recess the urinal flange into the wall flush so you have a clean look afterwards as designed. Plus it demonstrates good workmanship and separates you from the line of hacks before you who were too lazy or dumb to rough it in properly the first time :thumbsup:


Hey bro, 
thanks for wanting me to do it right. I do appreciate that you want to do it right, as well. Believe it or not, SewerRatz and I have seen fixtures set with putty, that have been in place for 30-50 years with no leaks. I work at nukes and other persnickety places. They wouldn't have me out there unless my work wasn't top-notch. If I could just bust walls and shorten waste arms, I would, but in most cases, I can't. I just bought some Fernco urinal gaskets to use when the walls get tiled over, and there is no way to lengthen the waste arm.


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## EasyEman (Jun 1, 2009)

1 inch main maybe too small for the fushometer.


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## SSP (Dec 14, 2013)

422 plumber said:


> Hey bro,
> thanks for wanting me to do it right. I do appreciate that you want to do it right, as well. Believe it or not, SewerRatz and I have seen fixtures set with putty, that have been in place for 30-50 years with no leaks. I work at nukes and other persnickety places. They wouldn't have me out there unless my work wasn't top-notch. If I could just bust walls and shorten waste arms, I would, but in most cases, I can't. I just bought some Fernco urinal gaskets to use when the walls get tiled over, and there is no way to lengthen the waste arm.


Fair comment, I sometimes forget how diverse the Zone is geographically and how much the standard methods of piping may vary among regions. As most retro-fits i walk into are primarily PVC, Cast, ABS, and very rarely DWV Copper or Galvanized. So i can certainly understand existing conditions being an obstacle, especially if its not as easy as threading out a nipple and shortening it or cutting plastic and gluing on new drain arms. Whether putty is an approved method of sealing flanges in your area or not is your business and not mine. I just haven't seen it work well because usually if the urinal isn't sitting level on the wall, its not matching the level of the drain and overtime this unequal connection will fail, regardless of material used to correct the difference. BTW those are sweet extension fernco's i wonder if my supplier carries those


But for me and the clientele i serve there is rarely a situation where i can't fix something like a urinal flange protruding too far out, but i also forget how fortunate i am to work with consummate professionals like myself who are willing to assist me in opening up the wall behind the urinal if need be, and patching it up before re-installing the urinal. And usually the customer is aware of the issue and willing to get it fixed. Very few people have the opportunity to work with decent GC's most of the time on their jobs and especially rare during service calls. 

So Believe it or not I get alot of my work by fixing other peoples mistakes. Take what i say with a grain of salt as i'm likely speaking from my own personal experiences . I'm only trying to contribute my lessons learned to the community in a positive manner to enhance the overall integrity of plumbers across the map as we are poorly perceived by the public. ... I'm tired of telling someone i'm a plumber then they say 
"oh cool, so you plunge toilets and stuff... neat" and then i have to say 
"Ya its not so bad cuz you know what they say, every a s s hole is a potential customer" ... :laughing:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I still set toilets with putty on cast iron flanges. I am in the suburban/ exurban Chicago area, with tons of cast iron DWV.

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## jtplumber (Jan 21, 2014)

Fixed it today. It was an overcast inside the outlets. . Ground off with a dremel and is right on now. A lot of good posts on this thread.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

SSP said:


> Whether putty is an approved method of sealing flanges in your area or not is your business and not mine. I just haven't seen it work well because usually if the urinal isn't sitting level on the wall, its not matching the level of the drain and overtime this unequal connection will fail, regardless of material used to correct:


SSP, I think u misunderstood. By using the putty, which isn't as thick as a sponge washer, it allows the urinal to be flush, so it does get a good 360 seal. What I see is that if the arm is too proud of the wall, a sponge washer really magnifies it, and usually the compression is at the bottom 180 degrees of the washer, not the too, where it will start leaking. My preference is to rework the drain arm, too. But in my environment, it's not always feasible. This has been a great exchange, we both must be a little obsessed with plumbing!🚽🚿🔧

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## Downthepipe (Feb 14, 2012)

422 plumber said:


> SSP, I think u misunderstood. By using the putty, which isn't as thick as a sponge washer, it allows the urinal to be flush, so it does get a good 360 seal. What I see is that if the arm is too proud of the wall, a sponge washer really magnifies it, and usually the compression is at the bottom 180 degrees of the washer, not the too, where it will start leaking. My preference is to rework the drain arm, too. But in my environment, it's not always feasible. This has been a great exchange, we both must be a little obsessed with plumbing!ddebdddebfddd27
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


If the outlet is proud of the wall substantially If you follow the line from the top of the urinal to the bottom and realize the compression will be at the top 180 of the gasket not the bottom as you stated. This will make the likelihood of the urinal leaking but from the bottom certainly


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Downthepipe said:


> If the outlet is proud of the wall substantially If you follow the line from the top of the urinal to the bottom and realize the compression will be at the top 180 of the gasket not the bottom as you stated. This will make the likelihood of the urinal leaking but from the bottom certainly


You are right, my bad


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