# Fabricating Homemade Tailpieces



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Somebody makes a tool to make flanged tailpieces outta 1.5" brass tube. I dunno who. I've made them with a swedge and a ballpien hammer but curious if anyones used the tool made to do that. Gotta becareful or the tube splits especially on the lighter gauge metal. Thats how I tried negotiate my first raise.....I made about 50 of them one day and handed them to my dad and said "here sell these and pay me more". All that did is earn me the duty of making more of them and let them know I know how to do it and well. Thanks alot!


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Why not just buy them? Works for me.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Why not just buy them? Works for me.


 I would take left over pieces and turn the scrap into usefull parts. its the ultimate in recycling and almost 100% profit -the 3.00 an hr they paid me. i could make 20 of them in an hour worth about 3 bucks each retail. they would make me do that if we finished early or if we had a rainout. They also would make me strip the copper off old water heaters to sell for scrap. I was kept busy. Doing nothing on the clock wasn't allowed and you were not allowed to leave early. It also helps when you out on a job and you dont have one to know how to fabricate one. We use to also swedge out the tube and solder it in as an extension tailpiece. We used alot of Wolverine 17ga. stuff. They use to sell the tube in 6' sections.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

So do you warranty these homemade tail pieces? Has it been tested and approved for use by a testing agency, been approved for use by your code. So tell us who tested your homemade product, here all products need to be tested by a testing agency and be listed for use. If it has not been tested or approved for use then your not suppose to use it.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I'm just shaping the tubing. Kinda like making a flare on copper tube. Are you really serious?


----------



## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

My older brother used to talk about making them when he was an apprentice in NYC. He said he used a tiny pipe wrench, I forgot what size.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I'm just shaping the tubing. Kinda like making a flare on copper tube. Are you really serious?


Hell yes he is serious. So how bout it?:laughing:


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Yes I am, your altering plumbing material, if you are allowed to alter material, whit out prior approval, then you can do the same for a toilet seat, need an open front toilet seat for a public toilet and you don't have one, hell just cut a slot out of a elongated seat and take the lid of, who needs approved material, we can make our own.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Ron, this it touching you in an unusual way. why the hostility?


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

No hostility, sorry if I come across that way, was just trying to make a point about altering plumbing just because you can does not make it right. All points aside TM, you do what you do, I don't know your codes there. Sorry Dude.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I am with Ron on this. Most codes state you must use materials that are approved for that particular use. So making your own tubular pieces, would be in violation of the code.


----------



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

FYI, perfecto products makes the item you're inquiring about. What I can't figure out is how it doesn't ruin the chrome finish?

http://perfectoproducts.net/


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm glad someone else opened this particular can of worms. I peered at it earlier and quickly put the lid back on. 

A tailpiece is not pipe. It is a fixture fitting. Approved and tested prior to use. You can't "make" a fixture fitting. 

The wroms are out! the worms are out! Somebody get em back in the can.

Aww CRAP too late.

You cannot un-ring a bell.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> No hostility, sorry if I come across that way, was just trying to make a point about altering plumbing just because you can does not make it right. All points aside TM, you do what you do, I don't know your codes there. Sorry Dude.


 No problem here. I still dont believe thats violating anyones code. I have merly shaped an approved material into a shape. Its no different than making a 45 degree flare on a piece of copper. Both are approved materials and tools are commercially available to put the flange on it for you just like a flare tool does the flare. Now why would those two be any different? I'm useing a code approved material and for its intended purpose. With your logic i wouldn't be allowed to make my own chrome plated copper water supllies for lavatory and toilet hookups.


----------



## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Something as simple as a tail piece, cant see the problem with that. ITs just a lil ol tail piece.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

It is the same thing as saying take a handle ball valve, remove handle, hacksaw a slot in the shut off stem, you know have a slotted screwdriver stop. The material your speaking of is approved, fabricating a tail piece is not an approved fixture fitting. 

Hey I could be totally wrong here also, however I have never seen this here and doubt I will. 

I will ask an inspector next time I get the chance.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Here is the code.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ok then that settles it...ITS legal. or all my 45 degree copper flares would br illegal too and thats not true! I'ma go eat mexican and be back in a while. talk to you in a while Ron.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Here is some more code for you, this alone would tell me it is not approved here until it is tested. So illegal till approved here


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Ron, this it touching you in an unusual way. why the hostility?


  Maybe he sat on one of those home made toilet seats :laughing:


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Here is some more code for you, this alone would tell me it is not approved here until it is tested. So illegal till approved here


 
Ron,
Seems to me that the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" wouldn't that be his local plumbing inspector?


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Yes which if the product is not tested and approved the inspector will turn it down


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

301.1.1 
Would this also be interpreted to meen, that by heating a piece of hard copper and bending it that the pipe is or could be considered to have a defect in it? 

Code is the code and Thats all you can say about that, :notworthy:but we all know that there is a difference between making something to work:nerd:, and makin somethin work.:shifty:


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Yes your right, thats why there is soft copper, an approved material for bending. You alter the hard drawn copper, which was not approved to be used in such a manner.


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Yes your right, thats why there is soft copper, an approved material for bending. You alter the hard drawn copper, which was not approved to be used in such a manner.


 
So you've never made yourself some home made soft copper?


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Nope I have never heated copper pipe just to bend it, not in 25 years, it is not allowed. That is what soft copper is for.


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Yes which if the product is not tested and approved the inspector will turn it down


 
Where does Galv. or I.P fit in there? I make my own nipples and have even welded some pipe? When I worked in the machine shop, I made many manifolds for water, chemicals, and pnuematics.


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Nope I have never heated copper pipe just to bend it, not in 25 years, it is not allowed. That is what soft copper is for.


 
:notworthy:


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Were talking plumbing here and machinery


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Here is some more code for you, this alone would tell me it is not approved here until it is tested. So illegal till approved here


 Try reading 404.3 of the oregon state code.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Try reading 404.3 of the oregon state code.


What about it?


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Were talking plumbing here and machinery


Yes, and I'm saying that if I can fabricate a plumbing fixture to handled up to 10,000 psi, and work for millions of cycles and hold up for years, then I trust my stuff more than most of the chineese trinkets we are forced to work with now.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

ASUPERTECH said:


> Yes, and I'm saying that if I can fabricate a plumbing fixture to handled up to 10,000 psi, and work for millions of cycles and hold up for years, then I trust my stuff more than most of the chineese trinkets we are forced to work with now.



Sure you can, you make the best things in the world, it still has to be tested and approved for use is all I'm saying. 

If I took a radiator hose and connected to by sink drains under the counter, water tight seal, sure it will work, but it is not approved.


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Sure you can, you make the best things in the world, it still has to be tested and approved for use is all I'm saying.
> 
> If I took a radiator hose and connected to by sink drains under the counter, water tight seal, sure it will work, but it is not approved.


 
Unless made by Fernco
I get your point, and I read my code, mine point is why break balls of someone who's actually exceeding "tested & approved meens when there are retards out there actually using radiator hoses.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Not breaking balls here, just saying fabricating your own parts for use without approval will never fly here, I don't know every code out there, don't even know if there is such a place as a testing agency in AL.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

There is a bending section in our code FYI, but does not say anything about heating the pipe.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Not breaking balls here, just saying fabricating your own parts for use without approval will never fly here, I don't know every code out there, don't even know if there is such a place as a testing agency in AL.


 I just e-mailed an oregon state code enforcement officer......we should have an answer in a few days.


----------



## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> There is a bending section in our code FYI, but does not say anything about heating the pipe.


 It does reference annealed... Just doesn't specify who gets to anneal it!!


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I just e-mailed an oregon state code enforcement officer......we should have an answer in a few days.



What was your question you asked?


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> What was your question you asked?


 I asked him if a plumber in oregon was allowed to use 17ga. 1.5" diameter chrome plated tubing for custom fabricating flanged tailpieces or extensions for fixture drains such as a residental kitchen sink. Since the tubing is an approved material and the tool to form the flange and hub is commercially available and thats its intended use from the manufacturer. I believe this would be the equivelant to making a 45 degree flare on a piece of copper tubing. Its simply a field installed flare on 1.5" brass tube. I feel this would comply with the intent of the oregon plumbing Code. What say you?


Thats what i asked him.....and ofcourse I listed all my company info and contact information including address and phone number. 
So we will see!!!!!


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Can I have your address?

After eating this big lunch, I am "working" on something I would like to send you :laughing::jester:


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Can I have your address?
> 
> After eating this big lunch, I am "working" on something I would like to send you :laughing::jester:


You can get it off the return address on the package I'm sending you ILplumber:laughing:.....I had mexican lastnight mofo!!!!!:laughing:
I'm sending mine in a bottle!!!!


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> I asked him if a plumber in oregon was allowed to use 17ga. 1.5" diameter chrome plated tubing for custom fabricating flanged tailpieces or extensions for fixture drains such as a residental kitchen sink. Since the tubing is an approved material and the tool to form the flange and hub is commercially available and thats its intended use from the manufacturer. I believe this would be the equivelant to making a 45 degree flare on a piece of copper tubing. Its simply a field installed flare on 1.5" brass tube. I feel this would comply with the intent of the oregon plumbing Code. What say you?
> 
> 
> Thats what i asked him.....and ofcourse I listed all my company info and contact information including address and phone number.
> So we will see!!!!!


Cool.

Our chief plumbing inspector is Terry Swisher, is that who you contacted, get this he has never been a plumber and does not have a plumbing license. Weird huh.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Cool.
> 
> Our chief plumbing inspector is Terry Swisher, is that who you contacted, get this he has never been a plumber and does not have a plumbing license. Weird huh.


 Only the chief plumbing inspector can make code interpretations. I read almost the entire state of oregons website last night. I even looked at all the tickets they post online were they fine people and the court records of prosecutions. Looks like they like fining people 1,000 dollars and then if your screw up again it goes up to 2,000 and so on. One guy got a 8,000 fine. if you dont pay they come after your property. if you have nothing then they can only jail you and I'm sure that doesn't happen much. They basically do the samething here....the ones that have somthing they can take....they take it......if your a bum and get caught working then its not much they can do. I mean they cant put everyone in jail. You guys run a tight ship and I like that. If you lived here you might have a different attitude and be better understanding of mine. I will be reading more on oregons website. I did get the impression it was like a business there though.......catching and fining people....that concerns me alittle but then to be efficient and effective it would need to be ran like a business. Its a fine line they walk hence all the corruption in some areas of the country. TOO much regulation can breed corruption. It sure sets the stage for it.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Oregon runs a clean ship, they don't mess around, that's what I like about it here. The jail time for repeat offenders came about and this is what an inspector told us, a long time ago the fine was a set amount, a GC would work without a license, they would fine him over and over, he said that at the amount of money he made the fine was a drop in the bucket, and just pay the fine, just pocket change to him, so they changed the rules allowing repeat offenders to get arrested.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Oregon runs a clean ship, they don't mess around, that's what I like about it here. The jail time for repeat offenders came about and this is what an inspector told us, a long time ago the fine was a set amount, a GC would work without a license, they would fine him over and over, he said that at the amount of money he made the fine was a drop in the bucket, and just pay the fine, just pocket change to him, so they changes the rules allowing repeat offenders to get arrested.


 Yeah but they would rather have the money than you in all honesty aslong as your not hurting people or ripping them off. Now the judge would throuw you in jail not really for the offense but for the fact that he told you "DONT DO IT AGAIN" and you go do it 5 more times. Judges hate being peed on......it becomes personal. They want your money and you to stop doing wrong but they really dont want to jail you.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ok here is the answer that the oregon chief plumber inspector gave me in an email.
..............................................................................................................................................................................
I was asked to respond to your plumbing code question. The Uniform Plumbing Code (Oregon has adopted the 2006 Edition) section 404.2, recognizes continuous wastes for plumbing fixtures of seamless drawn brass, not less than No. 20 B&S Gauge and 1-1/2” O.D. Using the appropriate tool to create a flat rim tail pipe of approved brass tubing is acceptable. This is no different than making a trap primer header out of approved copper tube and fittings on a job site. However, these skills are rarely used today due to the use of plastic tubing. If you need more information let me know.

Terry Swisher
Chief Plumbing Inspector
State of Oregon
503-373-7488
.................................................................................................................................................................................
Thats what I expected him to say. Some people still respect the skill of a plumber as does Mr. Swisher.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Cool we learn something new everyday, I don't see the need to fab my own parts I'll use what is already made, saves me time on the job, time is money, and money I need.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Cool we learn something new everyday, I don't see the need to fab my own parts I'll use what is already made, saves me time on the job, time is money, and money I need.


I was thinking it must have a stamp on everyone you make. Like a testig lab stamp.The tube we use to buy was not stamped all the way down the 6' piece....I dont know if the tube sold today is stamped every few inches or not. I saw a threader once to put the fine threads on the brass tube also....you can make long tub wastes like this one.
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww175/Waxsealer/bigasswaste001.jpg


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I can't even recall the last time I used No. 20 B&S Gauge Tailpiece or even the Waste pipes, I'm into the plastic 100% of the time. You don't find any exposed residential Kitchen sinks drains inside homes, now commercial yes, but we use Schd 40 ABS for commercial sink hook ups.


----------



## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Guys... this thread..... ROFLMAO...

:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> commercial yes, but we use Schd 40 ABS for commercial sink hook ups.


thats approved in oregon huh..? even with high temps..?


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumbworker said:


> thats approved in oregon huh..? even with high temps..?



Yes it is.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

That's exactly what happens here. Contractors(even plumbing contractors) will do work without a permit and/or not do it up to code. They get a little $300 fine/slap on the wrist and then go do 20 more jobs before they are caught again. They don't care because it's costs that much just to do the work up to code and pay for the permit so why bother. They don't prosecute halve of the violations ether. I've called in so many jobs being done with no permit it blowes my mind. No one ever shows up. I call them to check and they say "were looking into it." right.....

Here is the funny part. The county is laying of inspectors and downsizing left and right and they are all boohoo about it. Well, Maybe if you actually enforced your own laws people would pull permits and you just might be able to keep some of your people employed with the revenues.

Typical government. No accountability. They just want to sit back and enjoy their cushy government jobs.

OK rant over:laughing:



Ron The Plumber said:


> Oregon runs a clean ship, they don't mess around, that's what I like about it here. The jail time for repeat offenders came about and this is what an inspector told us, a long time ago the fine was a set amount, a GC would work without a license, they would fine him over and over, he said that at the amount of money he made the fine was a drop in the bucket, and just pay the fine, just pocket change to him, so they changed the rules allowing repeat offenders to get arrested.


----------



## Hyper Piper (Nov 29, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Yes I am, your altering plumbing material, if you are allowed to alter material, whit out prior approval, then you can do the same for a toilet seat, need an open front toilet seat for a public toilet and you don't have one, hell just cut a slot out of a elongated seat and take the lid of, who needs approved material, we can make our own.


Ron,

Can you please send me that lid?

I can cut a hole in it and use as a seat. 

By the way, was it round or elongated?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I had to take a 20 gauge chrome wall tube and file the spigot off it flush with the flange, so I could use it as part of center outlet waste. The painter had the key to the house and was already past his quitting time, the nearest hardware store was at least 15 minutes away. he was nice enough to help me out, so I didn't want to stick it to him and make him wait, so badda boom, badda bing. Done.


----------



## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

If you can't alter anything, forget cutting and threading galvanized pipe. Don't ever cut off a piece of tubing or pipe.

There was once a time when flanged tailpieces and threaded tailpieces were all made by plumbers. You alter a flanged tailpiece when you cut it shorter.

Today, we think little about waste, but when material was expensive and labor was cheap you could take a single piece of tubing and use virtually every inch of it.


----------



## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

we call it : OLD SKOOL!


----------



## ProcessHeavy (Jul 13, 2009)

My grandpa had a tail piece flange tool I say maybe it was from the 50's. You stuck it into the end tighten it down then rotate the handle a few times then tighten again and rotate till it flatten out. I think I made one successfully just to see if i could. This was like 15 yrs ago.


----------



## tooslow (Jul 17, 2009)

I have both tail piece tools, one flange maker and one 1 1/4" fine thread hand die.


----------



## tooslow (Jul 17, 2009)

To Ron the Plumber, how on earth would the inspector know you made a tailpiece, it is covered with a nut, and the ones I have made looked like factory.

Also I have made my own pipe dope--linseed oil and cement in an approved Campbell's
chicken soup can! I also use a Tee-drill and make my own copper tees, and have made tees with braz-o-lets.


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

tooslow said:


> To Ron the Plumber, how on earth would the inspector know you made a tailpiece, it is covered with a nut, and the ones I have made looked like factory.
> 
> Also I have made my own pipe dope--linseed oil and cement in an approved Campbell's
> chicken soup can! I also use a Tee-drill and make my own copper tees, and have made tees with braz-o-lets.



Debate is over, code allows it here, thanks for you interest on this subject.


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Hyper Piper said:


> Ron,
> 
> Can you please send me that lid?
> 
> ...


If it's a public toilet then it must be elongated.


----------

