# Not sure how to bid this



## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

I have been tossed a job under another general to remove floor set toilets with flushometers. Once removed/disconnected I have to sit and wait around for new flooring to be installed. This will be a weekend/overnight gig. Should I charge what I would to change this out to pull and re-set, plus hourly time to wait around. I might add this is for a national chain..


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

suzie said:


> I have been tossed a job under another general to remove floor set toilets with flushometers. Once removed/disconnected I have to sit and wait around for new flooring to be installed. This will be a weekend/overnight gig. Should I charge what I would to change this out to pull and re-set, plus hourly time to wait around. I might add this is for a national chain..


If I'm not sitting home in my easy chair watching the tube or pounding the keys on my laptop posting on the zone I better be getting paid for it!:yes:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Weekend/overnight= double time.

No exceptions

UA

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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I would assume that the plumber doing this would want to get paid for the time on the job, regardless of actual production. I would also assume they would want O.T. You better charge accordingly.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Weekend/overnight= double time.
> 
> No exceptions
> 
> ...


All weekend work is DT for y'all? Only Sunday and holidays here.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Any sporadic change of shift (having to go in at 1:00 instead of 7), any Saturday, any Sunday, any holiday, any regular work day in excess of 8 hours = double time + double vacation pay + double pension contributions + double welfare fund contributions + double sub fund contributions + 1/2 work gets done...

I threw that last one in there for you non-believers... Lol


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Weekend/overnight= double time.
> 
> No exceptions
> 
> ...


Lol

Got ya


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

That's how unions price themselves out of a market.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

422 plumber said:


> That's how unions price themselves out of a market.


I know it's different in other Locals. In 659 we do the Sunday DT. In 141 out of Shreveport they do OT the whole weekend.

We get payed on OT anything after 8 regardless if we do 40 in a week. 

Didn't mean to stray off topic, 

But yes if he is there he needs to be getting paid.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I don't know what 130 gets, that's my new local. In my old local, it was time and a half after 8, Saturdays, night shifts, unless it was longer than 3 days, and there was a day shift, and for early starts. Double time after 12, holidays and Sundays.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Night shift will get you an extra .50 cents an hour here. Unless you bank some hours during the day, at least 2 which is show up time. Then your on OT


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Is there any way to coordinate with the flooring contractor? How many w.c.'s need to be pulled and reset? Pull one and then move down then line. By the time the plumber has pulled the last one maybe the floor in the first restroom is ready to go? Or are these only 2 restrooms with 3-5 w.c.'s in each? 

I have to say if I were sitting around at 2 am waiting for a flooring guy to finish rolling vinyl and I wasn't getting paid, I'd be PISSED.







Paul


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I bet it's tile.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Charge full rate for the entire night, plus double profit. Anything less than that, why bother giving up a weekend?

Overtime is over 40 hours, so if I wanted to pursue an overnight gig, I would work our guys at night and give them a day off to compensate.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

422 plumber said:


> That's how unions price themselves out of a market.


I hear a lot of guys on this forum constantly mentioning that they are slow or that the phone isn't ringing.

Mine is.

There are a handful non union players in this industry in my area that have the overhead to bid the big jobs. There are only a couple organized ones. 

Give them a call and ask what their employee package is worth.

They will tell you it's comparable.

A person is supposed to be home with their family on evenings and weekends, it those criteria cannot be satisfied, that person should be compensated. 

I have been working steady since the day I started my apprenticeship, and I have been working overtime since the day I started my apprenticeship.

Your post is wildly inaccurate.

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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

suzie said:


> I have been tossed a job under another general to remove floor set toilets with flushometers. Once removed/disconnected I have to sit and wait around for new flooring to be installed. This will be a weekend/overnight gig. Should I charge what I would to change this out to pull and re-set, plus hourly time to wait around. I might add this is for a national chain..


Personally, I wouldn't stick it to the customer. Charge what is fair to the workers and cover your costs with a standard profit margin and be happy you got work, Suzie..........


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I've always seen a distinction between emergencies after hours and scheduled work afier hours.

Mark


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Definitely charge the time waiting. Do what you think is right. We have a charge for overtime and we also have a charge for downtime waiting for work to be completed in order to complete our job. You must cover your costs and make a profit. Your installers will be tired and moving slower than normal and so will the flooring guys.


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## Walt (Mar 12, 2011)

suzie said:


> I have been tossed a job under another general to remove floor set toilets with flushometers. Once removed/disconnected I have to sit and wait around for new flooring to be installed. This will be a weekend/overnight gig. Should I charge what I would to change this out to pull and re-set, plus hourly time to wait around. I might add this is for a national chain..


 if you think it is something that will produce more work with the chain, i would just do a heavy rate per commode and try to think about things like having to repair a broken flange or two. if you do not feel like more work will generate charge your normal commode rate and a slightly lowered hourly service rate to cover employees wage and cover business costs. many blessings...


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Let's throw some realism on the subject:

How far is it from home ( or your shop ) to the job site?

Assuming even that they use fast-set mud, and fast-set grout, is there any expectation that they want you back in under 6 hours? 

If you could negotiate a fixed time like that, just charge double on the labor but not for the pause.

On the other hand, if they propose to be up and done in under about 4 hours, they have to pay you for hanging around. Put a sleeping bag in the back of the truck!!


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Redwood said:


> If I'm not sitting home in my easy chair watching the tube or pounding the keys on my laptop posting on the zone I better be getting paid for it!:yes:


 So right. the kicker of this one is I send over bid now it might be a month or four months before this goes through corporate. Now they call and say we need you so I am going to look at this as a service call on the overnight/weekend factors.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> I hear a lot of guys on this forum constantly mentioning that they are slow or that the phone isn't ringing.
> 
> Mine is.
> 
> ...


more power to ya, bro. I am union and am up against non-union competition on some jobs, which are mostly night time remodels. I am always higher, but only get the jobs I do because of the quality of our work. The time and a half ensures these jobs are barely profitable. If I had to pay double, we would not get any of these jobs. Now what's better, guys sitting home getting nothing, or guys working a night shift making time and a half?


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

422 plumber said:


> more power to ya, bro. I am union and am up against non-union competition on some jobs, which are mostly night time remodels. I am always higher, but only get the jobs I do because of the quality of our work. The time and a half ensures these jobs are barely profitable. If I had to pay double, we would not get any of these jobs. Now what's better, guys sitting home getting nothing, or guys working a night shift making time and a half?


I've been trying to say that some jurisdictions are different. If we are going in on Sunday then it's double regardless because that is what was negotiated in the bargaining agreement. 

I'm sure it's the same for UAs local. 

Our market here is saturated with open shop contractors, to be honest we only have two union contractors here now, I have worked for both, the 3rd one went belly up a few years back, I put in time for them as well. 

We always stay busy, They have to trim their profit margin down some but they are still making money. I guess it all depends on what kind of market your in.

Here we are the top dog in the mechanical contractor world, us and one other non union company. People call for our workmanship and knowledge. 

I can speak for this area, we are union but we charge less than 90% of the non union companies hourly.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Job is 45 miles from office. union rate is 59.61 double time you do the math then sit. store closes at 7:00 Sun and opens at 9:00 I am going to bid it at a service call because by time I get the heads up it is the Friday before the Sunday. Thanks to all for your advise and input gratly appreciated.

Suzie B a.k.a Motherload


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> Night shift will get you an extra .50 cents an hour here. Unless you bank some hours during the day, at least 2 which is show up time. Then your on OT


 Wow that's crazy bad numbers to work the night shift


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

suzie said:


> Wow that's crazy bad numbers to work the night shift


It is what it is, bargained agreement.

It may have changed because I hardly ever work straight nights, usually all day then through the night so its all OT

Scale here is $22.35.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Weekend/overnight= double time.
> 
> No exceptions
> 
> ...





422 plumber said:


> That's how unions price themselves out of a market.


 Unions haven't priced themselves out of the market..it is all the Plumbers who start a business and don't understand how to run a business. Price points, overhead, comp all the etc. etc. that is the reason when markets become more competive the real business guru doesn't want to waste time bidding or can't compete. It's all the other riff raff. Bid low or competivie as you see it. In the end you will die a fast spiral death. Good Luck. WE CAN ALL FAIL ALONE BUT IT TAKES HELP TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> I've always seen a distinction between emergencies after hours and scheduled work afier hours.
> 
> Mark


And between boom and bust times. 

Many companies (even me) are in denial that their customers are tightening their belts.

The unions are not lowering their rates during these bust times, thus driving companies out of the union altogether. But like religion and politics, I don't discuss unions......................


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## boohiney (Feb 20, 2011)

suzie said:


> Job is 45 miles from office. union rate is 59.61 double time you do the math then sit. store closes at 7:00 Sun and opens at 9:00 I am going to bid it at a service call because by time I get the heads up it is the Friday before the Sunday. Thanks to all for your advise and input gratly appreciated.
> 
> Suzie B a.k.a Motherload


I would'nt even touch that job for 59.61 an hour


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumber said:


> And between boom and bust times.
> 
> Many companies (even me) are in denial that their customers are tightening their belts.
> 
> The unions are not lowering their rates during these bust times, thus driving companies out of the union altogether. But like religion and politics, I don't discuss unions......................


I suppose that's a good policy plumber! I try and steer clear of at least 2 of those subjects!

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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

suzie said:


> Unions haven't priced themselves out of the market..it is all the Plumbers who start a business and don't understand how to run a business. Price points, overhead, comp all the etc. etc. that is the reason when markets become more competive the real business guru doesn't want to waste time bidding or can't compete. It's all the other riff raff. Bid low or competivie as you see it. In the end you will die a fast spiral death. Good Luck. WE CAN ALL FAIL ALONE BUT IT TAKES HELP TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS


 If you're expected to re-use the original Flushometer valves, do yourself a favor and number each one and it's original location.

You and your crew are going to be tired, and so are the floor installers, which means variations in floor thickness can occur.

Finding out you cut a 1/4" off of a flush tube when you didn't have to is going to really harsh your mellow.

I'd also have an equal number of flushometer rebuild kits sitting onsite in case you need to rob them for gaskets or friction washers that fell apart during disassembly -- You can always return them if you don't need them.

I'd also have a few ounces of clear silicone grease on hand to help with the reassembly.

I've been through this myself -- Having to eat the cost of replacement flush tubes you cut too short really sucks.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> If you're expected to re-use the original Flushometer valves, do yourself a favor and number each one and it's original location.
> 
> You and your crew are going to be tired, and so are the floor installers, which means variations in floor thickness can occur.
> 
> ...


Real good I hadn't though of a height difference. It was late at night when i posted. good advise thanks


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

boohiney said:


> I would'nt even touch that job for 59.61 an hour


 no no no, i was just saying that's what I have to pay workers on straight time. I wouldn't get out of bed for that either. I'd loose money. this would be at double to pay guys/or gals and whatever else I figure in


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> If you're expected to re-use the original Flushometer valves, do yourself a favor and number each one and it's original location.
> 
> You and your crew are going to be tired, and so are the floor installers, which means variations in floor thickness can occur.
> 
> ...


Yea been there done that too. It does suck measure twice cut three times when you're tire:laughing:


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