# What I've been up too.



## 3/4 MIP (Dec 1, 2009)

Since starting 2 Code Plumbing in May works been fairly steady. Most recently I hooked up with GC that seems to be decent folks. They got me on some nice remodels. The following are a couple jobs I did the past few weeks. The open truss picks was a new construction I did. First time working extensively with these trusses, they're not as easy as I thought as you cannot drill them at all (Vertically). Additionally, all that piping is done with Purple primer. The person i apprenticed under would rip you apart if letters did'nt line up or primer ran. And you better wet rag wipe every copper joint. Patina was BAD. In the end though, I know it makes a difference to the inspector. I feel it shows you took the time.

Note also, our code requires leaded in soil adapters to go from CI to plastic as seen in the basement bath pic.

I sure appreciate learning under someone who stayed on us and kept our plumbing tight. 

3/4


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Works looks nice and neat MIP. Us anal folks enjoy looking at neat , level, plumb and square pipes. :thumbup: I only question stubbing all the copper down individually. I would pipe the whole bath with one set of drops. No biggie though I would just rather pipe it on the floor verses all those drops to hook up in the ceiling. A+ Passing grade


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## mongo (Jun 26, 2010)

Super looking job, wish some of my guys would take that kind of pride in their work.


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## 3/4 MIP (Dec 1, 2009)

Piperat, you couldn't be more correct. When my old boss/mentor came over to walk through that was his main complaint, "next time get those waters through the floor, it's easier to work sitting down than going up an down the damn ladder".

Actually, I was suprised and frankly elated he did'nt say much. That means you did good. This was the first full house I did, without him holding my hand, well to much.

It just looks professional when your plumbing is clean and neat.

3/4


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Nice looking job...

Looks like you are in one of those states that hasn't figured out that hammer arrestors work better than air chambers... :laughing:


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## oap67 (Dec 3, 2009)

Lovely job, great to see that there still people with pride in their work.
Richard


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Brings a tear to me old eyes


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Looks good!

Pride. Makes inspections go so much smoother as well. I tell my guys that if the work looks good, the inspector is more lax, if he sees primer all over, pipes not plumb it makes him look harder.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Why air chambers on lavs?

Nice work.

Now here is the clincher: Did you ream all of your cuts, and did you use water soluble flux and flush the system out?


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Protech said:


> Why air chambers on lavs?


Ya, I thought that was very odd too. Haven't seen anyone do that since... forever. I sometimes rip out ancient kitchen and laundry risers with them. They're useless anyway - they waterlog probably within the first couple days or a week. Just a waste of pipe and fittings. If you need shock arrestors (you don't on lavs or toilets) then use real ones and leave access so they can be serviced.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Us old timers were just taught to install air chambers. Can't say I'll ever change that. Makes for a good solid anchor point for your lav risers if nothing else.:thumbup:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Kinda sloppy with the primer in the first two pics. All nice and plumb, though.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Nice looking job...
> 
> Looks like you are in one of those states that hasn't figured out that hammer arrestors work better than air chambers... :laughing:


Illinois lets you use hammer arrestors, but it's hard to justify the cost if your competition doesn't use them.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Properly sized air chambers work just fine. I know this for a fact. I been in houses where some hack installed new copper plumbing and did not put any air chambers in the system and the water hammer was horrible. I cut in tees and put in properly sized air chambers, and problem solved, along with no complaints years later.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

jjbex said:


> Kinda sloppy with the primer in the first two pics. All nice and plumb, though.


A matter of opinion I guess but I for one will stick up for the guy. I have seen sloppy primer but not in these pic's :thumbup:. I think his work is top notch, he had a good mentor just like I had. It's rare to see pride in your work these days. Pick if you must but this old guy approves. You have done well Danielson. :thumbup::yes: Keep up the good work, you will be respected for it. :yes:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I amend my statement, the 1st out of focus pic has a lot of primer showing, like an inch. Not good, Daniel-san.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Properly sized air chambers work just fine. I know this for a fact. I been in houses where some hack installed new copper plumbing and did not put any air chambers in the system and the water hammer was horrible. I cut in tees and put in properly sized air chambers, and problem solved, along with no complaints years later.


Then they were never needed in the first place because the air was gone in less than a week...:whistling2:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Properly sized air chambers work just fine. I know this for a fact. I been in houses where some hack installed new copper plumbing and did not put any air chambers in the system and the water hammer was horrible. I cut in tees and put in properly sized air chambers, and problem solved, along with no complaints years later.


I demo'ed out some showers from a chemical refinery and threw 2 complete shower trees on the van. I left them at the side of my house for about 3 weeks. I finally got around to cutting them up, and the air chambers were still water logged. All that shaking and knocking didn't break the vacuum. I don't have much good to say about them.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

MEH even if an inch its uniform, its not dripping all over the pipe. Your mentor should be proud. :thumbup: Good job son. You could work for me anyday. :yes: You shall prosper Danielson. Best of Luck. :yes:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Looks great. Copper is straight as an arrow. Do you set the closet flange during the 2nd rough? I install a riser during 2nd rough, then cut it after floor is finished, when setting fixtures.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

How do you like those " J " Clips for the sanitary pipes? They look neat and I was thinking of ordering some. Seems faster than strapping, that's fur sure.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

markb said:


> How do you like those " J " Clips for the sanitary pipes? They look neat.


They straighten out nice when the line is holding water...:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Protech said:


> Why air chambers on lavs?
> 
> Nice work.
> 
> Now here is the clincher: Did you ream all of your cuts, and did you use water soluble flux and flush the system out?


 
In spite of that being in most if not all code books, I would venture to say that most of us do not ream copper pipe. That is like asking someone, "Do you drive the posted speed limit, never exceeding the posted speed limit?" Yeah right. If someone mentions excess turbulence in the pipe due to not reaming, then the answer to that is it will take years for the extra turbulence to affect anything. (if ever). By then, home will be getting renovated or homeowners will be long dead.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

[QUOTE=SewerRatz;140106]Properly sized air chambers work just fine. I know this for a fact. I been in houses where some hack installed new copper plumbing and did not put any air chambers in the system and the water hammer was horrible. I cut in tees and put in properly sized air chambers, and problem solved, along with no complaints years later.[/QUOTE]

Air chambers do not work because they eventually become saturated with water.
it's no different than a hydropneumatic tank on a well system. Every so often the tank must be a drained down to let air in. Air chambers are basically small hydropneumatic tanks.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> In spite of that being in most if not all code books, I would venture to say that most of us do not ream copper pipe. That is like asking someone, "Do you drive the posted speed limit, never exceeding the posted speed limit?" Yeah right. If someone mentions excess turbulence in the pipe due to not reaming, then the answer to that is it will take years for the extra turbulence to affect anything. (if ever). By then, home will be getting renovated or homeowners will be long dead.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> I do ream all of my cuts. I've also seen a few failures from cavitation in homes that were under 25years old.
> ...


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I also ream every cut. I don't dissagree that most guys don't do it but I'd be willing to bet that the percentage that do is higher on this board. I think I was the only plumber out of 5 with a reamer at my last shop.






Paul


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> In spite of that being in most if not all code books, I would venture to say that most of us do not ream copper pipe.


Quaint as it might seem to you, I ream all copper pipe except low/no flow stuff like blowoffs or boiler feeds.

I use this type of reamers. They're great! Fast and easy. They do all sizes, though once you pass 4" or so they're a bit undersized. When you have a tool that makes reaming so easy you just get in the habit and do it all the time.









 
A dull one works great on ABS (and PVC) pipe too.


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## 3/4 MIP (Dec 1, 2009)

Wow, so much to reply to. First, JBEX, I'll do better on the primer.
Second, air chambers are required on all fixtures, at least in Lake county IL. Forget the fact that they get waterlogged, and i believe they do, but I was talking to an inspector about some discussion going around, Legionares (sp) disease. Apparently the handbuilt AC i use may harbor this bacteria.

Third, i do ream my pipe. That's the party line and i TRY to adhere to it. I'm human and must admit when pressed and in a hurry probably not doing that good at it.

I appreciate your replies, criticism and encouragement. Pics are posted for that reason.

v/r
Shannon


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I can rip on the purple primer because I have been using clear lately. I still have purple on the van, but I don't use it often. When I open a new can, I pour about 1/4 out, so I can rattle the the dauber in the can pretty good. I usually then flick the dauber into a empty cardboard box to get the excess off before priming the pipe.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

futz said:


> Quaint as it might seem to you, I ream all copper pipe except low/no flow stuff like blowoffs or boiler feeds.
> 
> I use this type of reamers. They're great! Fast and easy. They do all sizes, though once you pass 4" or so they're a bit undersized. When you have a tool that makes reaming so easy you just get in the habit and do it all the time.
> 
> ...


Ditto, I do a lot of work at places with recircs, no reaming is a sure recipe for pinholing. I use cone beveler/reamers on my pvc as well.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I had a helper that flicked his dauber behind him all the time. Then one time I was 2nd roughing these apartments with shower stalls and he painted one with purple dots. A can of glue works wonders.





jjbex said:


> I can rip on the purple primer because I have been using clear lately. I still have purple on the van, but I don't use it often. When I open a new can, I pour about 1/4 out, so I can rattle the the dauber in the can pretty good. I usually then flick the dauber into a empty cardboard box to get the excess off before priming the pipe.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Properly sized air chambers work just fine. I know this for a fact. I been in houses where some hack installed new copper plumbing and did not put any air chambers in the system and the water hammer was horrible. I cut in tees and put in properly sized air chambers, and problem solved, along with no complaints years later.


You probably also properly strapped the tubing, after you cut in the tees. That is most likely what stopped the water hammer.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> You probably also properly strapped the tubing, after you cut in the tees. That is most likely what stopped the water hammer.


To be honest, no I did not. I couldn't get to enough of the piping to properly strap the lines. They do work, and yes eventually they will get water logged. But its cheaper for someone to shut the water off to their home open every tap in the house drain it down. Then turn the water back on. Than it is to replace a mechanical water hammer arrester.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I can't tell you how many air chambers I have cut off while repairing freeze damaged systems...


If they really worked why did the air chamber split?

If they really worked why did the end cap have a green patina on the inside?

It's fairly obvious they don't work for long....:whistling2:

Here is why...:whistling2:

http://www.siouxchief.com/Resource_/ProductMedia/206/Waterlogged Air Chamber.wmv


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Redwood said:


> I can't tell you how many air chambers I have cut off while repairing freeze damaged systems...
> 
> 
> If they really worked why did the air chamber split?
> ...




They split due to having some water in them mixed with air which will allow them to freeze first.
The green patina, is from the copper that has moisture and air present in it.
Oh and the link of course the manufacture of a product to stop air hammer going to make a video telling you that they do not work. That video is stating that after a few cycles of the valve the air chamber will be saturated, that is an exaggeration. Also if the air chamber is properly sized it will take a long time before it gets saturated.

Tell me this then. Why is it I get a call from a home owner thats been in their home for over 40 years and just recently started getting the water hammer. I go there turn off the water crack the meter union and drain the whole system. Refill the system and they no longer have water hammer. Some of these calls I did nearly 20 years ago, and these customers still call me till this day for all their plumbing needs, and they still no longer have any water hammer.

Also in the 20+ years I been doing plumbing, water hammer is a very rare call we get. In most cases its due to someone modifing the plumbing system and not installing a properly sized air chamber.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Are hammer arrestors/air chambers a remedy for poorly secured piping?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Choctaw said:


> Are hammer arrestors/air chambers a remedy for poorly secured piping?


no poorly strap lines tend to rattle when water hammer is present. strapping them down does not eliminate water hammer.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Protech said:


> no poorly strap lines tend to rattle when water hammer is present. strapping them down does not eliminate water hammer.


That's my point exactly............strap 'em properly and no rattling. And as we all know the arrestors don't work in a foolproof manner. 

We just don't have the issues with hammer around these parts, but I do know poorly strapped piping will rattle with or without arrestors.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

house plumber said:


> I had a helper that flicked his dauber behind him all the time. Then one time I was 2nd roughing these apartments with shower stalls and he painted one with purple dots. A can of glue works wonders.


I just recently discovered Whitlam Glue-Wash Hand Cleaner, which is really good at getting primer off things (or your hands). Works for ABS glue, PVC glue, CPVC glue and Silicone.

Other week I was gluing PVC above a laundry counter. Had a steel pan under my primer and glue and was being SO careful. Knocked the primer over anyway. The pan caught 95% of it, but a bunch splashed over the side onto the counter and some ran under the pan (didn't notice this at first). I hiked out to the truck and got the Glue-Wash and a couple rags and then found the primer puddle under the pan - badly purple stained counter!  Applied Glue-Wash liberally and rubbed it in with my hands. Wiped it off and... clean counter! Nice!


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Properly secured piping still can be damaged by water hammer. You may not hear the pipes banging around, but you can still hear the loud boom it makes.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> They split due to having some water in them mixed with air which will allow them to freeze first.
> The green patina, is from the copper that has moisture and air present in it.
> Oh and the link of course the manufacture of a product to stop air hammer going to make a video telling you that they do not work. That video is stating that after a few cycles of the valve the air chamber will be saturated, that is an exaggeration. Also if the air chamber is properly sized it will take a long time before it gets saturated.
> 
> ...


You're right its all propaganda...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> ...Tell me this then. Why is it...


Because just like politics, plumbing is a little different in Chicago. :laughing:

Actually, I agree with Rat to a point. Air chambers do work, but only if they stay full of air. Depending on countless factors, the air chamber might gain some water. The more water, the less effective they are. At best they are dependent on things we can't control. That is why they are no longer allowed by our code. They're just too hit and miss to be counted on.

I prefer hammer arrestors because they are more predictable and reliable than air chambers. They are only subject to their own mechanical failure rather than elements beyond our control. But you must have them accessibly installed.


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