# Average number of service calls ran per day?



## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

I ran 11 calls today and average about 10 per day (normally) I work for a co that does 99% of their work for warranty co's so we stay busy. Whats the normal average calls a service plumber runs per day? It's been a few years since I've worked for an individual based co.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Chadillac80 said:


> I ran 11 calls today and average about 10 per day (normally) I work for a co that does 99% of their work for warranty co's so we stay busy. Whats the normal average calls a service plumber runs per day? It's been a few years since I've worked for an individual based co.


Sounds like you dont do a lot of upsales. :no:


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Sounds like you dont do a lot of upsales. :no:


I average 20 u/s a month.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

If I can get it down to 1 call it would be a great day....

A high number of calls says I'm driving not working....


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

A friend of mine works for one of those service agreement companies. They typically just sell 'service agreements' to elderly folks. The elderly folks think they are purchasing an insurance policy that covers all their plumbing when it breaks, but there are items not covered. For example, 1-pc toilets, any stoppage outside the footprint of the building, and some other stuff that I can't remember right now. His most often used phrase was(is), "Mr. Goldberg, read your policy."

Anyhow, I digress, but he said he does about (18) service calls a day for that outfit. Mostly he changes flappers, installs Badger 5's and replaces ridgid supply lines with flex supplies.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I run between 3-5 calls per day.

No home warranty work. Very picky with landlord/tenant situations.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

3-4 is the average, one of which being a longer involved job.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

11 calls is crazy I like 2-3. That gives me plenty of time to spend building a relationship and doing a good job on the call. We dont do warranty work there is no money in it.


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

Don't do many service calls but the service guy was sick today so I got the role did 4 and
The boss was happy with it


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

1-2 when I do run a truck


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

I do not do more than 2-3 calls a day. Between building relationships with a customer and the task on hand, I do not see how a tech/good plumber could fit in another call. 

But I am not superman/superwoman any more and take a bit more time. My call backs are almost minimal so though.


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## SlowDrains (Mar 25, 2013)

I agree with 2-3 a day is a good number. I've worked for both kinds of companies one that would pile up the calls on you and one that gave you one at a time and wanted you to call them and say you will be there the rest of the day. I found the lower volume equaled more in up sales and better service for customers


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## Plumbducky (Jun 12, 2010)

For an average, I do 3-4 calls a day. 
I have had more and less. Just depends on how things go.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Three to four would be a full day. Eleven would be too much You would have no time to properly diagnose and fix the problems. That being said if you are working twelve hour shifts that would give you just over a hour per call.


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## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

you guys and girls doing 1 or 2 calls a day what is the average calls you are up selling or are they decent services to start with. 
I'm not a big up seller and do a lot of volume. I'm think the up selling is the way to do it considering i see a lot of stuff wrong when I'm there. I usually am to busy to do it that day so I have to schedule it for another day.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Mr Plumber said:


> you guys and girls doing 1 or 2 calls a day what is the average calls you are up selling or are they decent services to start with.
> I'm not a big up seller and do a lot of volume. I'm think the up selling is the way to do it considering i see a lot of stuff wrong when I'm there. I usually am to busy to do it that day so I have to schedule it for another day.


The key to make money is to do those upsells same day you are there.More money on each call. Is better than burning through small jobs.imo.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

I've learned to balance the high volume of calls and u/s as much as possible. I run close to 200 calls a month and average 20 u/s a month. That's 1 a day ;-) I also agree with what all the plumbers said about small volume and ^^^^^ sell as much as possible. That's just unfortunately not the type of co I work for. And yes I will work into the dark to get a shovel in the ground the same day.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

If you rush threw or slop one up really good because you are cranking eight or nine calls a day you will end up having nothing to do because the phone will quit ringing. Quality is a must in service you are making a problem go away. The possible easy calls are few and rarely do you get more than one a week so just slow down and do it right. The repeat customer is more money in your pocket.


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## James420 (Nov 14, 2012)

Mr Plumber said:


> you guys and girls doing 1 or 2 calls a day what is the average calls you are up selling or are they decent services to start with.
> I'm not a big up seller and do a lot of volume. I'm think the up selling is the way to do it considering i see a lot of stuff wrong when I'm there. I usually am to busy to do it that day so I have to schedule it for another day.


I would think service companies would love it if we could could limit our calls to one or two a day, its the way I prefer to work as well. Just the gas savings for the company by doing it two days a week is amazing, times that monthly and yearly it really adds up. I can't stand it when I do more than 4 calls a day, it means I usually failed my goals of $1200 a day.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

If you have a plumber that you expect to do six to eight calls a day you need a second van with a second plumber at some point that pace will catch up to you.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

10 or 11 a day? you do know there are only 24 hrs a day and of those 24 you sleep maybe 8. Then out of the remainder you use 3 to eat or get parts. so that leaves about 13 hrs that are workable. of those 13 your doing 10 or 11. So your drive time is 2 hrs between all those calls?


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

victoryplbaz said:


> 10 or 11 a day? you do know there are only 24 hrs a day and of those 24 you sleep maybe 8. Then out of the remainder you use 3 to eat or get parts. so that leaves about 13 hrs that are workable. of those 13 your doing 10 or 11. So your drive time is 2 hrs between all those calls?


You'd be correct. 2 - 2 1/2 hrs. Roughly 15 min drive time between calls. And I understand how many hrs are in a day, but thx for the break down. Tell that to my boss ;-)


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Chadillac80 said:


> I ran 11 calls today and average about 10 per day (normally) I work for a co that does 99% of their work for warranty co's so we stay busy. Whats the normal average calls a service plumber runs per day? It's been a few years since I've worked for an individual based co.


Are you in Florida?


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

Plumber said:


> Are you in Florida?


No, Houston


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Chadillac80 said:


> I ran 11 calls today and average about 10 per day (normally) I work for a co that does 99% of their work for warranty co's so we stay busy. Whats the normal average calls a service plumber runs per day? It's been a few years since I've worked for an individual based co.


What do they pay you? There is no money in hone warranty work, and SLOW payments if paid at all. Gotta think this would affect your pay.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

40% commission after parts, $24 per call first 6, $34 per call after 6. Saturdays $34 per call Sundays $44 per call.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Chadillac80 said:


> You'd be correct. 2 - 2 1/2 hrs. Roughly 15 min drive time between calls. And I understand how many hrs are in a day, but thx for the break down. Tell that to my boss ;-)


If you cant tell him that its taking a toll on you then something is wrong. I can understand making 5 calls a day as a owner. But to make you do 11 is stupid and going to burn you out. Not to mention the toll it will take on your home life. Also if your rushing through those calls your not giving your customer the attention they deserve. You need to slow it down to a more comfortable rate. I run 4 to 5 calls a day. Its not because im a one man shop and that's all I can handle. Its because I was like you 16 hr days never home. Screw those days! I have a life other than slinging cables or humping water heaters at 10 pm.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

victoryplbaz said:


> If you cant tell him that its taking a toll on you then something is wrong. I can understand making 5 calls a day as a owner. But to make you do 11 is stupid and going to burn you out. Not to mention the toll it will take on your home life. Also if your rushing through those calls your not giving your customer the attention they deserve. You need to slow it down to a more comfortable rate. I run 4 to 5 calls a day. Its not because im a one man shop and that's all I can handle. Its because I was like you 16 hr days never home. Screw those days! I have a life other than slinging cables or humping water heaters at 10 pm.


You are so right one minuet you are in your late twenty s running your ass off the next thing you know you are mid forty,s . Bad knees back problems and for what just so you could get the most calls in. The world will pass you by while you change water heaters. I raised four wonderful children and I learned early don't let it get in the way of livening a good life. One call came the day my daughter turned one I told the boss it was my daughters birthday and it was Sunday to boot. They still wanted me to take the call it was a simple job they said. I almost missed my daughters birthday over one stinking tap on a gas line in a plant that now is a empty building.


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## Big cheez (Jan 11, 2012)

If your doing more then three or four your burning thru calls...


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## Big cheez (Jan 11, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> You are so right one minuet you are in your late twenty s running your ass off the next thing you know you are mid forty,s . Bad knees back problems and for what just so you could get the most calls in. The world will pass you by while you change water heaters. I raised four wonderful children and I learned early don't let it get in the way of livening a good life. One call came the day my daughter turned one I told the boss it was my daughters birthday and it was Sunday to boot. They still wanted me to take the call it was a simple job they said. I almost missed my daughters birthday over one stinking tap on a gas line in a plant that now is a empty building.


I feel the same way family and my health first then work


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

we schedule 4 per day with a 3-hour window between each. This seems to work well for me and the overflow we refer to a couple of my friendly competitors...and they like that too. I know, I should hire another plumber...anybody want to move to Joshua Tree?


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Chadillac80 said:


> 40% commission after parts, $24 per call first 6, $34 per call after 6. Saturdays $34 per call Sundays $44 per call.


I would learn how to do add on tasks. Falling into 20 additional tasks out of 400 calls is not real good. You can drop down to 1-2 calls a day for less time and more money than you collect on 10-12 calls a day.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

damnplumber said:


> we schedule 4 per day with a 3-hour window between each. This seems to work well for me and the overflow we refer to a couple of my friendly competitors...and they like that too. I know, I should hire another plumber...anybody want to move to Joshua Tree?


You got water there?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

It has become very obvious that the older plumbers including myself have learned to pace ourselves. The money you can make by doing a little customer one on one makes it worth it. If you rush you make mistakes I do a lot in hospitals, if I make a mistake somebody is usually dependent on what I am working on, so I slow down and get it right


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Mr Plumber said:


> you guys and girls doing 1 or 2 calls a day what is the average calls you are up selling or are they decent services to start with.
> I'm not a big up seller and do a lot of volume. I'm think the up selling is the way to do it considering i see a lot of stuff wrong when I'm there. I usually am to busy to do it that day so I have to schedule it for another day.





> A bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush


So let me get this straight...
You walk away from work, and money on the table...

Because you are busy, and have to get to customers that "might" have work for you, that you haven't sold yet? :whistling2:

I'm having trouble following the logic behind that...:001_unsure:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

If you can't keep up with the customer calls hire another plumber very simple. More calls more plumbers more profits. Just make sure you are covering costs/ profit margin.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

damnplumber said:


> we schedule 4 per day with a 3-hour window between each. This seems to work well for me and the overflow we refer to a couple of my friendly competitors...and they like that too. I know, I should hire another plumber...anybody want to move to Joshua Tree?


 
I am doing about the same thing you are...

we get in about 4-6 calls a day..depending on the calls.. ... per truck....

I turn down all the sewer work and refrer it to others 

I would rather be laid back and keep things mellow
over pulling my hair out dealing with new plumbers.:yes::yes::yes: i


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Mr Plumber said:


> you guys and girls doing 1 or 2 calls a day what is the average calls you are up selling or are they decent services to start with.
> I'm not a big up seller and do a lot of volume. I'm think the up selling is the way to do it considering i see a lot of stuff wrong when I'm there. I usually am to busy to do it that day so I have to schedule it for another day.


 
You would not like the calls I go too. An over whelming majority in PZ think the calls I go to are a huge waste of time. I take all the calls that are deemed difficult customers, people that have no idea what they want, that that refuse to pay service charges, and finally those that say they cannot afford or do not have money. Some are supposedly consulting only with no intention of buying.

Today I went to a customer that purchased his own water heater from home depot. I sold him our water heater and multiple repairs in his home. 1 of our guys followed me in at 10:00 and was done by 3:30.Almost 3 grand.


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## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

Redwood said:


> So let me get this straight...
> You walk away from work, and money on the table...
> 
> Because you are busy, and have to get to customers that "might" have work for you, that you haven't sold yet? :whistling2:
> ...


There is work when I get there. All my calls are flat rated so I know there is money on the table when I get to the next job. That's the logic. 
I schedule the calls where I know the money's at. However i do realize it would be more beneficial to maximize the job I'm on.

I will not sell my customers service they do not need like some national chains.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Mr Plumber said:


> There is work when I get there. All my calls are flat rated so I know there is money on the table when I get to the next job. That's the logic.
> I schedule the calls where I know the money's at. However i do realize it would be more beneficial to maximize the job I'm on.
> 
> *I will not sell my customers service they do not need like some national chains.*


Cannot blame the national chain. Must blame the plumber for selling customers service they don't need.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Mr Plumber said:


> There is work when I get there. All my calls are flat rated so I know there is money on the table when I get to the next job. That's the logic.
> I schedule the calls where I know the money's at. However i do realize it would be more beneficial to maximize the job I'm on.
> 
> I will not sell my customers service they do not need like some national chains.


So all of the jobs you are going to are presold and you are just following a salesman/estimator?:whistling2:

Or are you actually going to the customer examining the problem and giving them a proposal for the work you are selling...
In which case it is still one in the bush....


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

I do allot of contract jobs pre-sold by an estimator. Since I do mostly commercial work, I am often dealing with property managers and building engineers. It is flat out amazing what a few minutes of BS'ing and building rapport with clients does for the workload. There are few contract jobs I go on that don't end with a change order on the spot or another estimate for additional work. On days that I run all service I will pull anywhere from 2 to 5 calls depending on the type of call. We are not flat rate (highway robbery) so I will often give COD customers the option to pay for part running if necessary or allow me to set up a return call for the following day. Customers seem to like options.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> I do allot of contract jobs pre-sold by an estimator. Since I do mostly commercial work, I am often dealing with property managers and building engineers. It is flat out amazing what a few minutes of BS'ing and building rapport with clients does for the workload. There are few contract jobs I go on that don't end with a change order on the spot or another estimate for additional work. On days that I run all service I will pull anywhere from 2 to 5 calls depending on the type of call. We are not flat rate (highway robbery) so I will often give COD customers the option to pay for part running if necessary or allow me to set up a return call for the following day. Customers seem to like options.


That few minuets of making there life important sure pays off. And it will tell you more about a problem than if you just ask directly what is wrong


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> ....We are not flat rate (highway robbery) so I will often give COD customers the option to pay for part running if necessary or allow me to set up a return call for the following day. Customers seem to like options.


You adding more non-billable time to your card that comes directly out of the business checking account with no possible way to recoup that expense. Your effort to be a friend to the customer is cutting your employer's throat.

Your reference to pricing jobs in advance of the work as highway robbery is interesting. Are your "contract" jobs all open ended T&M? If so your company might want to look in the mirror before throwing stones at FR shops.


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## James420 (Nov 14, 2012)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> I do allot of contract jobs pre-sold by an estimator. Since I do mostly commercial work, I am often dealing with property managers and building engineers. It is flat out amazing what a few minutes of BS'ing and building rapport with clients does for the workload. There are few contract jobs I go on that don't end with a change order on the spot or another estimate for additional work. On days that I run all service I will pull anywhere from 2 to 5 calls depending on the type of call. We are not flat rate (highway robbery) so I will often give COD customers the option to pay for part running if necessary or allow me to set up a return call for the following day. Customers seem to like options.


I've been seeing alot of this, estimators going out first and then the plumber. When did this stuff start, after 1999? The company I currently work for does it more backwards than that. I go out for a water heater and say a tub waste & overflow, write up a material list then we have a former dispatcher now plumbing estimator call the customer with a price, usually a week or two later. 

I just did a sewer today that I priced back in March, it wasn't an emergency, we had to move the sewer cause they are getting an in ground pool.

Can't beat the beach for digging, all sand.


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> You adding more non-billable time to your card that comes directly out of the business checking account with no possible way to recoup that expense. Your effort to be a friend to the customer is cutting your employer's throat.
> 
> Your reference to pricing jobs in advance of the work as highway robbery is interesting. Are your "contract" jobs all open ended T&M? If so your company might want to look in the mirror before throwing stones at FR shops.


Let me preface my response by adding that this is my personal opinion and not that held by my company. Truth be told our shop consists of no less than 5 different divisions and 2 of them (Res. HVAC and Res. plumbing service) use the flat rate book. On the commercial contract / service side, there are just too many variables to price things sight unseen and that is the issue I have. Unless you quote every call as a worst case scenario then you are destine at some point to lose your ass. Though price isn't everything, ethics and integrity are worth there weight in gold. Most flat rate plumbers that I know work on commission. This means they often sell high, up sell higher, and knock out jobs as quick as possible to get to the next bread basket. I HATE this concept. Again this is just a personal opinion but with Residential service and commercial COD I prefer to let the customer know that there will be an up front trip charge and the hourly rate. Upon arrival I can greet the customer and review the issue(s) in their time frame, diagnose and quote a repair. 9 out of 10 times they will agree and I will proceed with the work. If the customer is not happy with the quote then i will collect the trip charge and move on with my day. On numerous occasions I am the second call made by the customer after having received sticker shock from a flat rate quote. Even being significantly cheaper then the flat rate, we are able to maintain great margins and a long dedicated client list. Commercial account customers are no muss no fuss. They call, we come, we fix, we bill. As for the estimators, they do not run or quote basic service calls. They will typically quote small plan and spec or replacement jobs. Their cost is worked right into the quote and being that we get a large % of the work that is bid, their position is a great help. I say it all the time. "Different Strokes for Different Folks".


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> Let me preface my response by adding that this is my personal opinion and not that held by my company. Truth be told our shop consists of no less than 5 different divisions and 2 of them (Res. HVAC and Res. plumbing service) use the flat rate book. On the commercial contract / service side, there are just too many variables to price things sight unseen and that is the issue I have. Unless you quote every call as a worst case scenario then you are destine at some point to lose your ass. Though price isn't everything, ethics and integrity are worth there weight in gold. Most flat rate plumbers that I know work on commission. This means they often sell high, up sell higher, and knock out jobs as quick as possible to get to the next bread basket. I HATE this concept. Again this is just a personal opinion but with Residential service and commercial COD I prefer to let the customer know that there will be an up front trip charge and the hourly rate. Upon arrival I can greet the customer and review the issue(s) in their time frame, diagnose and quote a repair. 9 out of 10 times they will agree and I will proceed with the work. If the customer is not happy with the quote then i will collect the trip charge and move on with my day. On numerous occasions I am the second call made by the customer after having received sticker shock from a flat rate quote. Even being significantly cheaper then the flat rate, we are able to maintain great margins and a long dedicated client list. Commercial account customers are no muss no fuss. They call, we come, we fix, we bill. As for the estimators, they do not run or quote basic service calls. They will typically quote small plan and spec or replacement jobs. Their cost is worked right into the quote and being that we get a large % of the work that is bid, their position is a great help. I say it all the time. "Different Strokes for Different Folks".


 

Pricing unseen jobs is not flat rate that is just stupidity.


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Pricing unseen jobs is not flat rate that is just stupidity.


Serious Question?? So most people don't quote flat rate pricing over the phone??


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> Serious Question?? So most people don't quote flat rate pricing over the phone??


:no:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> Let me preface my response by adding that this is my personal opinion and not that held by my company. Truth be told our shop consists of no less than 5 different divisions and 2 of them (Res. HVAC and Res. plumbing service) use the flat rate book. On the commercial contract / service side, there are just too many variables to price things sight unseen and that is the issue I have. Unless you quote every call as a worst case scenario then you are destine at some point to lose your ass. Though price isn't everything, ethics and integrity are worth there weight in gold. Most flat rate plumbers that I know work on commission. This means they often sell high, up sell higher, and knock out jobs as quick as possible to get to the next bread basket. I HATE this concept. Again this is just a personal opinion but with Residential service and commercial COD I prefer to let the customer know that there will be an up front trip charge and the hourly rate. Upon arrival I can greet the customer and review the issue(s) in their time frame, diagnose and quote a repair. 9 out of 10 times they will agree and I will proceed with the work. If the customer is not happy with the quote then i will collect the trip charge and move on with my day. On numerous occasions I am the second call made by the customer after having received sticker shock from a flat rate quote. Even being significantly cheaper then the flat rate, we are able to maintain great margins and a long dedicated client list. Commercial account customers are no muss no fuss. They call, we come, we fix, we bill. As for the estimators, they do not run or quote basic service calls. They will typically quote small plan and spec or replacement jobs. Their cost is worked right into the quote and being that we get a large % of the work that is bid, their position is a great help. I say it all the time. "Different Strokes for Different Folks".


I don't understand what you mean by quoting. If you are T&M, what are you quoting? By giving a quote do you mean giving a price? 

I really don't think you are understanding the true process of offering a price before the work starts. It is not about worse case scenarios. It is about offering a legitimate price for a completed task(s) after evaluating the situation in person.


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> I don't understand what you mean by quoting. If you are T&M, what are you quoting? By giving a quote do you mean giving a price?
> 
> I really don't think you are understanding the true process of offering a price before the work starts. It is not about worse case scenarios. It is about offering a legitimate price for a completed task(s) after evaluating the situation in person.


I do mean offering a price but I am going to step back on this one. I have had one of those relentless nights of insomnia and did allot of reading on flat rates. From what I am gathering it is not the system I have a problem with so much as the way the it is executed. Meaning the way the price book is put together and the commission structure. I am going to snag a copy of the plumbing service price book today and review over the weekend. Based on my new understanding I may actually have to 180 my opinion and lean on some people in my shop about a few things. If "structured properly", I am starting to see some value here. Damn I hate when that happens but I appreciate everyone's incite. I'll keep you posted.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Dont let them corner you MD....flat rate isnt the holy grail:laughing:...its still about pleasing customers, doing a good job, making enough money and enjoying life...its useful when running employees to standarize prices and can be a great tool in the overall evaluation of number of calls/average ticket, giving customers an up front price to be settled on........but not required to run a business well and make a profit, and treat a customer well.....

as far as pricing over the phone....there are people who want to know what something like this could cost before they get you out there....its what they want...if they dont get something to diffuse that fear, they will call someone else. Repeat customers ..all this is moot.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> Serious Question?? So most people don't quote flat rate pricing over the phone??


 
Pricing over the phone is a guess at best. We are trusting a person that has no training a as plumber to diagnose a plumbing situation in order for us to price. Then we complain that the home owner does his own work yet we are ok with them diagnosing a problem for us.


A toilet is a toilet right? Unless it is a Kohler 1 piece with a brass flush valve and ballcock as 1 part.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

stillaround said:


> Dont let them corner you MD....flat rate isnt the holy grail:laughing:...its still about pleasing customers, doing a good job, making enough money and enjoying life...its useful when running employees to standarize prices and can be a great tool in the overall evaluation of number of calls/average ticket, giving customers an up front price to be settled on........but not required to run a business well and make a profit, and treat a customer well.....
> 
> as far as pricing over the phone....there are people who want to know what something like this could cost before they get you out there....its what they want...if they dont get something to diffuse that fear, they will call someone else. Repeat customers ..all this is moot.


 
Ever wonder why they want a price over the phone. Before you give a price ask them that question.

I do agree there are many ways to run a business conversely there are many ways to screw up decisions to kill a business. It is tough, every day there are more and more companies moving to flat rate.


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## RightyTighty (Apr 14, 2013)

we never booked more than too calls a day when i did service


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

1st you say pricing over the phone is stupidity, and then you ask me if I ever asked a customer why they want a price.....do you think that much of yourself as to ride this high horse......if someone doesnt do business as you see fit...they are now stupid???? do you really want to go there......I ask when I havent a clue what its going to cost to fix my $2600 Meile dishwasher what it might cost before they come out ....because the last repair was over $400 and if I dont have $400 or dont want to spend $400, and thats what repairs are, I may let it sit....

you treating someone giving info over the phone with the same prejudice you accusing the fr bashers???? A bit condescending for me....


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

And because more and more businesses are going flat rate...that means more and more businesses will abuse it...and thats all the more reason for a customer to want to know some pricing over the phone...because now its anybody's wag what the service call might cost...hello, I was wondering how much it costs to install a kitchen sink and faucet that I supply, the old one is out and there is no disposer..plastic pipes underneath...
.....usually takes a couple hours, and we have a showup fee to cover our travel..
......Oh great, when can you do it..
.......what time is good for you.....

I may have never taken advance call taking classes, but there is nothing stupid here...


this is what some want

And while Im here would you mind if I do a free safety inspection ( code for lead generation ) ....now Mrs. Jones there are some options I can give you on this...

expected response...you are so nice, nobody has ever treated me with such care...( will you come to my grandaughters wedding?)

unexpected response....slight intimidation and growing suspicion....no, just fix this for now ( and get out )


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> Serious Question?? So most people don't quote flat rate pricing over the phone??


Nope. No prices over the phone.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

I give a range of price over the phone on a regular basis. When people ask a question they expect an answer.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

stillaround said:


> 1st you say pricing over the phone is stupidity, and then you ask me if I ever asked a customer why they want a price.....do you think that much of yourself as to ride this high horse......if someone doesnt do business as you see fit...they are now stupid???? do you really want to go there......I ask when I havent a clue what its going to cost to fix my $2600 Meile dishwasher what it might cost before they come out ....because the last repair was over $400 and if I dont have $400 or dont want to spend $400, and thats what repairs are, I may let it sit....
> 
> you treating someone giving info over the phone with the same prejudice you accusing the fr bashers???? A bit condescending for me....


If you have a $2600.00 dishwasher and don't have $400 you need to manage your finances better. . I realize your making a general point, but this is kinda true. I get most of my complaints about prices, or requests for financing from people driving Cadillacs, Lincolns, BMWs. If you were better with your money, you wouldn't sweat the Plumber. I think this is getting a bit personal Hillard's post said there are many ways to run a business. I took that as trying not to discredit your opinion, and still put in his twi cents. Most people who are looking for a price over the phone are call 5+ plumbers. They are looking for the cheapest number, not best reputation. I personally want to be called out for my expertise, and quality customer service, not because I'm the cheapest plumber in town.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> I give a range of price over the phone on a regular basis. When people ask a question they expect an answer.


Yes and when they ask we expect not to go there, because odds are they are looking for someone to do a $500 job for $50 bucks. With a non plumber dispatcher answer the phone (the person they want a quote from), and a non plumber customer giving the details. I see a lot of room for error there. Then you show up, correct the price and they scream bait & switch!


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Just to be clear I'm just stating my opinion. There are plumbers out there more successful than me giving prices over the phone. I'm only in my second year and review my policies daily trying to find what works best for us. I have given prices over the phone and currently don't. I feel its easier to sell a job that is more expensive than the customer anticipated in person instead of over the phone. In person they get a clean cut professional plumber who respect them their home, and is passionate about this business. Over the phone they get a number and a voice.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

I own a home and when I need work done I call and ask prices. If they refuse to give me a range of costs with the understanding that the price could change beyond what they quote me via the telephone I move on. I do not only consider price when I'm shopping for service but it is a part of the package I'm looking for. 

I had a customer yesterday who was thinking about replacing their water heater but it was nothing wrong with their water heater. They asked a price over the phone for a 40 gal natural gas installed in the garage of a 13 year old house in the corner on a 18" high platform.

I do not need to go look at that job to quote a range of 900-1100.00. The customer accepted my phone estimate and I replaced the heater.

After I finished the heater I up sold 4 faucet repairs and 3 flappers/ballcocks.

If I didn't give a price on the phone I wouldn't have got the job because the gentleman of the house worked out of town and the lady of the house couldn't take off work to meet people just for estimates. 
She was happy and I gained a new customer that probably will not even ask a price on the next call for service.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> I own a home and when I need work done I call and ask prices. If they refuse to give me a range of costs with the understanding that the price could change beyond what they quote me via the telephone I move on. I do not only consider price when I'm shopping for service but it is a part of the package I'm looking for.
> 
> I had a customer yesterday who was thinking about replacing their water heater but it was nothing wrong with their water heater. They asked a price over the phone for a 40 gal natural gas installed in the garage of a 13 year old house in the corner on a 18" high platform.
> 
> ...


I have done both, and my experience is that for every one of those is at least ten that are looking for the cheapest price. Some may be your completion pricing you out. By us telling the customer "We don't give prices over the phone, but we do provide Free Estimates" we close more customers who get a chance to see what kind of company they are dealing with in person. A decent percentage of those customers who would have thought our prices over the phone are too high would have moved on. If we are willing to come out and give you a free estimate, then its really minimal risk for you the homeowner. All they can lose is 30 minutes of their day. If that's not a fair deal they probably aren't the customer we are looking for. For everyone of the customers you described, I probably sell to four of the customers who took your price and moved on.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

I just took a job by giving a price on the phone for a disposal replacement. Badger 5 in a 6 year old house. I quoted a price range with a new badger and labor for 300.00. She already has a badger 5 so it is just a swap out. I don't care if I'm the cheapest price if I get what I need to make the profit I want.

You can be the most expensive guy in town and still not make the profit if you don't get the jobs.

I suggest everyone do what makes their business operate and makes them the most money. Then everyone is happy. There is no wrong or right it's just preference.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> If you have a $2600.00 dishwasher and don't have $400 you need to manage your finances better. . I realize your making a general point, but this is kinda true. I get most of my complaints about prices, or requests for financing from people driving Cadillacs, Lincolns, BMWs. If you were better with your money, you wouldn't sweat the Plumber. I think this is getting a bit personal Hillard's post said there are many ways to run a business. I took that as trying not to discredit your opinion, and still put in his twi cents. Most people who are looking for a price over the phone are call 5+ plumbers. They are looking for the cheapest number, not best reputation. I personally want to be called out for my expertise, and quality customer service, not because I'm the cheapest plumber in town.


Well Mr. Gryphon....chillax on this.....its never been my job to impune my customers personal choices for how they manage their money. As far as personal between Richard and myself..it is...and if I had a serious business question for my own business I would probably call him first..but if I needed him to come out and train my men, Id ask price over the phone. A little drama here can make the thread come alive. I no longer swallow any sales dogma without proof. And I dont mean stuff like more and more businesses...and I dont fall for the giving price and failing businesses in the same breath rhetoric.
If you noticed I thanked plmbiz for his post because I felt his response nailed the current issue here...which is what do you mean by quoting and do you understand properly applied flat rate....this is how these threads take off so enjoy the ride. I have respect for Richard and dont mind slamming some of the rhetoric until its made perfectly clear what is being said.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

stillaround said:


> Well Mr. Gryphon....chillax on this.....its never been my job to impune my customers personal choices for how they manage their money. As far as personal between Richard and myself..it is...and if I had a serious business question for my own business I would probably call him first..but if I needed him to come out and train my men, Id ask price over the phone. A little drama here can make the thread come alive. I no longer swallow any sales dogma without proof. And I dont mean stuff like more and more businesses...and I dont fall for the giving price and failing businesses in the same breath rhetoric.
> If you noticed I thanked plmbiz for his post because I felt his response nailed the current issue here...which is what do you mean by quoting and do you understand properly applied flat rate....this is how these threads take off so enjoy the ride. I have respect for Richard and dont mind slamming some of the rhetoric until its made perfectly clear what is being said.


I thought I was pretty relaxed.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> I thought I was pretty relaxed.


 You were relaxed, just not right. People who dont want to spend $400 repair on a $2600 d/w dont need money management instruction...they need to get to the bottom of why the repair is so expensive. That should be easy to understand.
There is more than one format in successful plumbing. Not answering a customers direct question over the phone isnt a win-win. I dont like sales schemes and practicing scripted tricks to extract more money from a customer. If I sense it being done to me I shut it down. Some go over the deep end in that direction and it leads to a less than ethical outcome......I dont suggest the plumbers here are that way.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> I just took a job by giving a price on the phone for a disposal replacement. Badger 5 in a 6 year old house. I quoted a price range with a new badger and labor for 300.00. She already has a badger 5 so it is just a swap out. I don't care if I'm the cheapest price if I get what I need to make the profit I want.
> 
> You can be the most expensive guy in town and still not make the profit if you don't get the jobs.
> 
> I suggest everyone do what makes their business operate and makes them the most money. Then everyone is happy. There is no wrong or right it's just preference.


 
A pro essential fits on that same flange. Most of the time it is a slip in and slip out


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> A pro essential fits on that same flange. Most of the time it is a slip in and slip out


If they buy a new disposal I feel like they should get the new flange that comes with it. The badger flange is a dull stainless and the pro essentials have a polished stainless flange.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> If they buy a new disposal I feel like they should get the new flange that comes with it. The badger flange is a dull stainless and the pro essentials have a polished stainless flange.




I think his point was that a phone sale has you limited to a 300$ badger 5.. Theres much more opportunity there to be had.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I think his point was that a phone sale has you limited to a 300$ badger 5.. Theres much more opportunity there to be had.


No the fact that she had 3 children and no job and a husband that works at Walmart has her limited to a 300.00 badger 5 is what had me limited to the badger 5. I listen to my customers and get them what they want at a price they can afford and are willing to pay. Communication skills are very important in the repair business.


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

Wow, It's amazing how different people choose to run their business. At the end of the day, as long as there is bread on the table and money in the bank who really cares. If you are successful and happy then why fix what "aint broke". Hope everyone has a kick ass weekend!!


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> No the fact that she had 3 children and no job and a husband that works at Walmart has her limited to a 300.00 badger 5 is what had me limited to the badger 5. I listen to my customers and get them what they want at a price they can afford and are willing to pay. Communication skills are very important in the repair business.


I see your happy with low hanging fruit. To each their own.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I see your happy with low hanging fruit. To each their own.


It's just as sweet and easier to pick and everyone's happy. Have a great weekend!


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## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

I have low hanging Fruit... Sorry, don't think that's what you were talking about:laughing:


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I see your happy with low hanging fruit. To each their own.


As long as you can make your profit percentage on that, what would you have against that?


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Personally.. I am not satisfied with the low hanging fruit.. Bare minimum plumbers will stay at the bottom of the pay scale.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I run 3-5 calls a day.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> Personally.. I am not satisfied with the low hanging fruit.. Bare minimum plumbers will stay at the bottom of the pay scale.


Is that what the Porsche dealer says about the Ford dealer? Same difference. There is room for all price points in the business. You can't sell a 100.00 steak to a guy who has 5.00 and wants a burger.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Round two.

Who keeps the scrap money the boss or the employees.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> Is that what the Porsche dealer says about the Ford dealer? Same difference. There is room for all price points in the business. *You can't sell a 100.00 steak to a guy who has 5.00 and wants a burger.*



If the guy with only 5 bucks in his pocket wanted a $100 steak bad enough, he would find a way to come up with the other $95 :yes:

I could easily sell a steak over a burger.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> Round two.
> 
> Who keeps the scrap money the boss or the employees.




Boss/company


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> If the guy with only 5 bucks in his pocket wanted a $100 steak bad enough, he would find a way to come up with the other $95 :yes:
> 
> I could easily sell a steak over a burger.


Your in the wrong business then and there would be more fine steakhouses than McDonald's.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> If they buy a new disposal I feel like they should get the new flange that comes with it. The badger flange is a dull stainless and the pro essentials have a polished stainless flange.


 


IU agree that the customer deserves the flange replacement. I took your statement below as swapping out the badger V leaving the flange. Your quote was 


" She already has a badger 5 so it is just a swap out. I don't care if I'm the cheapest price if I get what I need to make the profit I want".

As the same with the water heater the cheapest price won over the phone.

Glad you're happy.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Boss, but he could buy tools or take the crew out and share that ....I liked ( when we used copper) buying tools.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> IU agree that the customer deserves the flange replacement. I took your statement below as swapping out the badger V leaving the flange. Your quote was
> 
> " She already has a badger 5 so it is just a swap out. I don't care if I'm the cheapest price if I get what I need to make the profit I want".
> 
> ...


Swap out means the same rough in height for the drain. New flange comes with the swap out.

I don't think the cheapest price won over the phone but I think the willingness to give a price and the confidence in knowing my job well enough to give the price won the job.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> No the fact that she had 3 children and no job and a husband that works at Walmart has her limited to a 300.00 badger 5 is what had me limited to the badger 5. I listen to my customers and get them what they want at a price they can afford and are willing to pay. Communication skills are very important in the repair business.


 
Your facts are not true . I work for a ton of 1 family member working. I work for quite a few single moms. What that has to do with anything is beyond me. I bet Mrs. warren Buffet does not work. She would be a non working senior citizen. How much can you really listen to over the phone and understand their finances. I would bet that you're probably close to 100-150 dollars more for the essential.

I understand that you like to give pricing over the phone keep on doing that if it is working out for you. You're lucky to have such a low overhead.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> Swap out means the same rough in height for the drain. New flange comes with the swap out.
> 
> I don't think the cheapest price won over the phone but I think the willingness to give a price and the confidence in knowing my job well enough to give the price won the job.


A pro essential also is the same drain height. That is my point you limited and gave the customer a worse product that will not last as long because you felt it necessary to give a cheap price to get in her home.

No that is not true once again. You said in your thread that you do not mind being the cheapest. Now you say it is your confidence. 
Why do your customers demand to know price over the phone? 
I've been doing this since 1972 do you think it is possible that I do not know what it takes to install a badge V disposal that will rust and most likely rust out in 3-5 years forcing that same customer to replace that same disposal with the same type in 3-5 years? Do you think that same customer knows and understands that fact? Do you think the customer knows and understands the essential disposal should last 10-12 years?
Do you realize if you did not go over that fact with the customer that they made a decision with less than true information? 

Often the consumer will make the wrong choice due to people selling stuff without giving all the information necessary to make the best purchase for them. It may cost more today but tomorrow it is less and is a better investment than the cheapest solution. 

I lack a lot of things however confidence is not 1 one of them. Skill is not 1 of them. Professionalism is not 1 of them. Service after the sale is not 1 of them. I have more confidence and trust in my customer to make the right decision that I am willing to visit the customer when others believe it is a lost cause.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> I have low hanging Fruit... Sorry, don't think that's what you were talking about:laughing:


 
is that a pair?


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Your facts are not true . I work for a ton of 1 family member working. I work for quite a few single moms. What that has to do with anything is beyond me. I bet Mrs. warren Buffet does not work. She would be a non working senior citizen. How much can you really listen to over the phone and understand their finances. I would bet that you're probably close to 100-150 dollars more for the essential.
> 
> I understand that you like to give pricing over the phone keep on doing that if it is working out for you. You're lucky to have such a low overhead.


My facts are not true? Sure they are because I know the facts because I did the job and took the call.

How much can I know about her finances? Plenty because she explained her situation and I have enough common sense and courtesy to Listen and provide the service at the right price and in her time frame.

How would you know anything about our overhead based off a few posts about price son the phone?

A man that charges more and works less doesn't necessarily make more profit and vise versa a guy charging less and working more doesn't always make more profit.

We are doing well and always will because we provide products and service at a value with courtesy and respect like we would want in our own home.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> A pro essential also is the same drain height. That is my point you limited and gave the customer a worse product that will not last as long because you felt it necessary to give a cheap price to get in her home.
> 
> No that is not true once again. You said in your thread that you do not mind being the cheapest. Now you say it is your confidence.
> Why do your customers demand to know price over the phone?
> ...


That's right I do not mind being the cheapest but that doesn't mean I am the cheapest. Don't get that confused. The cheapest doesn't necessarily mean cheap. Keep that in mind also. 200.00 for a 1 hour change out and 100.00 disposal isn't cheap but it does have value.

I gave the customer options and she picked the most economical. I shouldn't hold a grudge or think less of her for wanting the cheapest and easiest replacement. I don't judge people and I certainly don't tell them how to spend money they may not have. 

I know nothing about you and never claimed to.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

When plumbers say they are not giving a price over the phone it does not mean that they do not know or understand plumbing. Most of us have been in your shoes and used to give pricing over the phone. What has happened is a change in behavior and transformation from a commodity to becoming a value based business design.

When you decided to become a value based company you now must transform your company actions to back up this business design. Your words and actions now must become the same. Giving a rock bottom price or range will not and does not back up the statement that you are a value based business model. Your selling decisions are based on value that is valuable to the customer. It no longer is a product to product market that it was back in the 70’s and 90’s. Our present economic climate is what has determined this business model.

By giving a price over the phone you have limited your ability to help the customers get something that they may want. No one has stated that the customer may still decide to go with a badger V. My experience is the majority will step up to a ¾ hp disposal that is stainless steel many due to the longevity of the product over the ½ hp. Yes some may only be able to afford the ½ hp. By giving them a price they have a preset notion that is all they will and can spend. Again you need to give them all the information in order that they can make the decision after all it is their decision to make not yours or mine.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> That's right I do not mind being the cheapest but that doesn't mean I am the cheapest. Don't get that confused. The cheapest doesn't necessarily mean cheap. Keep that in mind also. 200.00 for a 1 hour change out and 100.00 disposal isn't cheap but it does have value.
> 
> I gave the customer options and she picked the most economical. I shouldn't hold a grudge or think less of her for wanting the cheapest and easiest replacement. I don't judge people and I certainly don't tell them how to spend money they may not have.
> 
> I know nothing about you and never claimed to.


 
When the customer already has price in mind options and not all the facts will not change the mind set of what is right for them.
Quote
"I certainly don't tell them how to spend money they may not have." This statement proves the facts are not known. 

It is not a 1 hour change out. Drive time to and from has been left out of the equation. Time spent on the phone is left out of the equation ,Paperwork after the fact is left out of the equation. Warranty in less than a year is left out of the equation.

We may have to leave this as we agree to disagree.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

stillaround said:


> You were relaxed, just not right. People who dont want to spend $400 repair on a $2600 d/w dont need money management instruction...they need to get to the bottom of why the repair is so expensive. That should be easy to understand.
> There is more than one format in successful plumbing. Not answering a customers direct question over the phone isnt a win-win. I dont like sales schemes and practicing scripted tricks to extract more money from a customer. If I sense it being done to me I shut it down. Some go over the deep end in that direction and it leads to a less than ethical outcome......I dont suggest the plumbers here are that way.


What was I not right about? You said "don't have $400" you also said "don't want to spend $400". I was responding to the "don't have".


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> My facts are not true? Sure they are because I know the facts because I did the job and took the call.
> 
> Your sentence of "may or may not have the money" says you do not know all the facts.
> 
> ...


 
Get hurt and not be able to work or run your company and then tell me how you're doing. Been there done that and thought that


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> When plumbers say they are not giving a price over the phone it does not mean that they do not know or understand plumbing. Most of us have been in your shoes and used to give pricing over the phone. What has happened is a change in behavior and transformation from a commodity to becoming a value based business design.
> 
> When you decided to become a value based company you now must transform your company actions to back up this business design. Your words and actions now must become the same. Giving a rock bottom price or range will not and does not back up the statement that you are a value based business model. Your selling decisions are based on value that is valuable to the customer. It no longer is a product to product market that it was back in the 70s and 90s. Our present economic climate is what has determined this business model.
> 
> By giving a price over the phone you have limited your ability to help the customers get something that they may want. No one has stated that the customer may still decide to go with a badger V. My experience is the majority will step up to a ¾ hp disposal that is stainless steel many due to the longevity of the product over the ½ hp. Yes some may only be able to afford the ½ hp. By giving them a price they have a preset notion that is all they will and can spend. Again you need to give them all the information in order that they can make the decision after all it is their decision to make not yours or mine.


Well this customer waited until Friday because that's when she could have the money to pay us. What do you really know about a family struggling to make it from week to week? 

I hope other plumbers will not give a price over the phone,that's super fine by me. Makes my sell easier wether it be the most expensive product or the most economical.

Value in the eyes of the customer vs the service provider don't always look the same. I understand that perfectly.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

How hard is it to give a price over the phone, communicate to the customer that you are not looking at the issue so things could change, and then when on the job say , wait a minute, Id like to run something by you....unimposing and polite....and how is the "sales" paradigm threatened?


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

6 minute phone call. 15 minute drive time and literally a 30 minute change out and 5 minutes to write invoice collect a check.

I'll make the deposit in the bank for free! Lol

Badger 5 come with a 2 year in home service warranty from the manufacturer.

That's value!!!!!!!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> What was I not right about? You said "don't have $400" you also said "don't want to spend $400". I was responding to the "don't have".


:laughing: Remember...I have a headache can mean I dont want to.......nit picker


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

stillaround said:


> How hard is it to give a price over the phone, communicate to the customer that you are not looking at the issue so things could change, and then when on the job say , wait a minute, Id like to run something by you....unimposing and polite....and how is the "sales" paradigm threatened?


Pretty sure your not reading all the posts, just skimming. Don't see anyone saying its to hard to give a price over the phone.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

There are people, who make bad decisions, even after being given all the facts.

IMO, the OMB will have the hardest time implementing flat rate, and resisting the urge to give pricing over the phone. I think it's easier for a non-business owner to hold firm on a price, an owner has the power to reduce at will. Also, the OMB is wearing too many hats. 

They are the field, they are the Master, they are overhead, they are A/P & A/R, they balance the check book, they do the banking, they stock their trucks, they order materials, they answer the phone, they make marketing decisions, they are the CSR, they are the scheduler / dispatcher, they are the ones cleaning the truck, they are the ones going on callbacks. After doing all of the above, there is little time to learn a new skill, or take extra time on the phone to work around giving out prices.

For the OMB, going out for a free estimates several times a week can certainly impact the bottom line. If he can sell his value, the impact is good. If he does not have a good track record of 'selling' in person, the impact is not so good. In that case, best to stay home, hoping the phone rings again.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Get hurt and not be able to work or run your company and then tell me how you're doing. Been there done that and thought that


 Im glad you found a niche you enjoy and can excel at in the industry.....the injury thing is serious biz.........


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

You’re right I will ask for a price over the phone. When they give it to me and come out I make them honor their price. Hey if you want me to make the diagnostics and forget to ask me the questions necessary in order to answer your price questions, it is your fault not mine and you’re stuck with the price you gave.

I definitely suggest stop selling the way you buy. You limit what you can do successfully.

As far as ken and I seeing; eye to eye we don’t and probably never will. Now in fairness if we were to talk about giving him the sales help he needs I would not give pricing over the phone. The reason it would not matter. My questions of him would expose the unwillingness to commit to an all in that it would not be worth the effort by me or him. It would be a complete waste of time, energy, and money. There would not be a commitment to a behavior change and to take his money would give me headaches with buyer’s remorse and an unlikely great review and results that I could not post.

Here is the difference it is me that gets to choose if I want to continue the relationship and not the customer. It is me that gets to choose if I want to work with and for a customer. When it is me that gets to choose I get to receive the money I need in order to be highly profitable.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Pretty sure your not reading all the posts, just skimming. Don't see anyone saying its to hard to give a price over the phone.


 If you are going to be that way Gryphon Im going to have to ask you to improve your spelling....


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

I had a lady call me last fall to ask a price for me to come out and light two sets of gas logs. The gas company quoted her 65.00. I quoted her 110.00

I got the job. How can that be? Should I have went and gave her an estimate? 

What would I know in person that I wouldn't know on the phone?

All she needed was the gas logs lit and nothing else and understood if any more was required it would be billed according to the task.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> You’re right I will ask for a price over the phone. When they give it to me and come out I make them honor their price. Hey if you want me to make the diagnostics and forget to ask me the questions necessary in order to answer your price questions, it is your fault not mine and you’re stuck with the price you gave.
> 
> I definitely suggest stop selling the way you buy. You limit what you can do successfully.
> 
> ...


 I like being myself....no I would never submit to a sales lobotomy and sacrifice my concience in order to wave the high fruit banner....yet I would continue doing well, enjoying my life and family...ultimately my trust lies elsewhere....
Cheers Richard


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

stillaround said:


> If you are going to be that way Gryphon Im going to have to ask you to improve your spelling....


Most of my responses are on my iphone, so the spelling is due to a small keyboard. Still your responses are that of someone who isn't really reading the posts, or is drunk.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> Well this customer waited until Friday because that's when she could have the money to pay us. What do you really know about a family struggling to make it from week to week?
> 
> I hope other plumbers will not give a price over the phone,that's super fine by me. Makes my sell easier wether it be the most expensive product or the most economical.
> 
> Value in the eyes of the customer vs the service provider don't always look the same. I understand that perfectly.


 
You're making silly comments. I have had to live hand to mouth. In my early 20's I lived out of my van. I moved out of my parents home when I was 16 and graduated high school went 3 years to college.

My 1st 2 years in business was hand to mouth and not knowing where the next job would come from. I installed glass in windows, laid flooring, even painted houses during my 1 st 2 years. You name it I did it during the starting years just to keep busy. Busy does not mean making money either.

Help the customer to budget for a better decision. That is your job too. How about waiting another week for that extra 100 dollars. Personally I may have installed the 3/4 hp disposal and allowed them to pay me the extra 100 bucks next week to allow them the better product.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> I had a lady call me last fall to ask a price for me to come out and light two sets of gas logs. The gas company quoted her 65.00. I quoted her 110.00
> 
> I got the job. How can that be? Should I have went and gave her an estimate?
> 
> ...


You answered your own question.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> You're making silly comments. I have had to live hand to mouth. In my early 20's I lived out of my van. I moved out of my parents home when I was 16 and graduated high school went 3 years to college.
> 
> My 1st 2 years in business was hand to mouth and not knowing where the next job would come from. I installed glass in windows, laid flooring, even painted houses during my 1 st 2 years. You name it I did it during the starting years just to keep busy. Busy does not mean making money either.
> 
> Help the customer to budget for a better decision. That is your job too. How about waiting another week for that extra 100 dollars. Personally I may have installed the 3/4 hp disposal and allowed them to pay me the extra 100 bucks next week to allow them the better product.


When you were living out of your van and say you needed brake job on the van could a guy have sold you the best brake job they offered for 200.00 more or would you have told them to pad slap it so you could get to the next parking lot to live the good life? 

That's a real question,nothing silly about it.

She couldn't wait. She had single bowl sink and the disposal crapped out and the dishwasher connected to the disposals D/W connection. The sink would not drain. 3 kids to feed and needed a place to wash dishes and baby bottles. No van to live in either.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

stillaround said:


> I like being myself....no I would never submit to a sales lobotomy and sacrifice my concience in order to wave the high fruit banner....yet I would continue doing well, enjoying my life and family...ultimately my trust lies elsewhere....
> Cheers Richard


 
Thanks for embracing, agreeing and proving my point. I am not out to convince a person against their will as they are of the same opinion still. What you do not know you do not know. The same holds true for me. 

This proves that when you ask the right questions then you can decide if it is something that you want to do or pass it off to someone else or let the person keep on doing what they are doing. No prices necessary.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> You answered your own question.


No I didn't. I got the job because the gas company wouldn't give her a time but rather a window between 8-5.

Her time was valuable. I respected her time and charged for mine and we both were happy.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> No I didn't. I got the job because the gas company wouldn't give her a time but rather a window between 8-5.
> 
> Her time was valuable. I respected her time and charged for mine and we both were happy.


Yes you did by acknowledging that if anything else was needed there would be extra charges. You can't tell if she has a bad thermocouple on her gas logs over the phone.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> When you were living out of your van and say you needed brake job on the van could a guy have sold you the best brake job they offered for 200.00 more or would you have told them to pad slap it so you could get to the next parking lot to live the good life?
> 
> That's a real question,nothing silly about it.


 
The real question is do I value my life? Same thing with tires I would not put retreads on my van. I would walk until I can get it fixed. been there done that in the past.

I made a huge mistake with a work truck . My self and a friend decided to do the work on the truck . About 2 months later my guys called me with a blown transmission. Never again I gave it to the professional to do the work. Saving a penny cost me a truck. Sometimes I need to make a mistake before I learn. Rarely do I make the same mistake twice.

You know the silly thing is I did have parents that loved me and would have given me a place to live and the money I needed. Sometimes we may need to give our fellow person a little nudge so they can get what they deserve verse live with less.

yeah yeah I get it that is not your job or job description to help others.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Yes you did by acknowledging that if anything else was needed there would be extra charges. You can't tell if she has a bad thermocouple on her gas logs over the phone.


The gas company would have charged for a thermocouple also. No different than me. They just wanted her to sit home and wait on them all day and I gave her a time.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Gryphon Plumber said:


> Most of my responses are on my iphone, so the spelling is due to a small keyboard. Still your responses are that of someone who isn't really reading the posts, or is drunk.


 Well if you would manage your money better, you could afford a tablet.....as far as drunk, I dont even smell the corks pal. Lets not get off on the wrong foot here. How hard is it.........and not threaten the sales paradigm....by reading thru you might have caught that some feel its a violation of the sales rules of higher profits to quote a price over the phone. Its EASIER to tell them an answer that does not lock you in to the quote and still get an upsell if warranted, than to read 7 volumes of sales schtik. Have a good one.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> The gas company would have charged for a thermocouple also. No different than me. They just wanted her to sit home and wait on them all day and I gave her a time.


Never said the gas company wouldn't charge. You asked along the lines of what else would I need to know, but then said you would charge extra for anything else necessary to get the logs lit. So you acknowledge that there may be something else you need to know for a accurate price. Honestly I probably would have quoted her a price for that too. Just saying you did answer your own question.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> When you were living out of your van and say you needed brake job on the van could a guy have sold you the best brake job they offered for 200.00 more or would you have told them to pad slap it so you could get to the next parking lot to live the good life?
> 
> That's a real question,nothing silly about it.
> 
> She couldn't wait. She had single bowl sink and the disposal crapped out and the dishwasher connected to the disposals D/W connection. The sink would not drain. 3 kids to feed and needed a place to wash dishes and baby bottles. No van to live in either.


 
your giving this real sad sad story yet you would not give her the ability to pay you 100 dollars the next week and go ahead and install the better disposal. See your actions and words do not come together. Your pounding your chest saying I am a great guy and I did the right thing yet the customer did not get the best thing for her and her 3 kids. She did not get the best thing because she has to cook for all her kids and husband. What happens when that 1/2 Hp helps clog up that drain and she does not have the money to clear the stoppage? Short term solution with out long term vision.

We can play this game all day long. I had a nap and am available all night.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

stillaround said:


> Well if you would manage your money better, you could afford a tablet.....as far as drunk, I dont even smell the corks pal. Lets not get off on the wrong foot here. How hard is it.........and not threaten the sales paradigm....by reading thru you might have caught that some feel its a violation of the sales rules of higher profits to quote a price over the phone. Its EASIER to tell them an answer that does not lock you in to the quote and still get an upsell if warranted, than to read 7 volumes of sales schtik. Have a good one.


I don't recall complaining about my finances. Wondering how you think you have a insight to that. Must of thought you saw me complaining I was broke while you were lazily skimming the thread sipping your booze.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> your giving this real sad sad story yet you would not give her the ability to pay you 100 dollars the next week and go ahead and install the better disposal. See your actions and words do not come together. Your pounding your chest saying I am a great guy and I did the right thing yet the customer did not get the best thing for her and her 3 kids. She did not get the best thing because she has to cook for all her kids and husband. What happens when that 1/2 Hp helps clog up that drain and she does not have the money to clear the stoppage? Short term solution with out long term vision.
> 
> We can play this game all day long. I had a nap and am available all night.


I'm not a finance company. I'm no bank. I'm the plumber and I will give you a few options and answer any questions you may have. I will not spend 30 minutes trying to sell a job that takes 30 minutes.

However my boss has considered using a finance company to get his customers a line of credit. He decided that's not a direction he wanted to go.

I'm not chest pounding but just saying she got what she asked for and was willing/able to pay for.

I have explained to many people that their sewer needs replacing and let's say that would cost 5,000.00. They refused and would rather pay me 250.00 twice a year for 15 years and then one day The sewer has to be replaced anyway. 
Should I refuse them service because their either too stupid to realize whats best for them?


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Ken have you ever gone to a job and the customers information was less than stellar? For me it is well over 80% they have not given me the right information.

The other day I was having fun and ordered a faucet with the side spray on the left side. Threw the guy for a loop.

my toilet is leaking how much? Whose is it? Its mine of course.
whose water are you on? Mine. My faucet leaks how much. I have a 40 gallon water heater. where is it located? in the garage. Get there and discover a washing machine and laundry tray must be removed before it can be replaced. You gave a price over the phone.

lavatory faucet how much? is there a cabinet? Yep You get there and it is a 13x19 cabinet and everything is in your way. You gave a price now honor your price.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Olemissplumber said:


> I'm not a finance company. I'm no bank. I'm the plumber and I will give you a few options and answer any questions you may have. I will not spend 30 minutes trying to sell a job that takes 30 minutes.
> 
> However my boss has considered using a finance company to get his customers a line of credit. He decided that's not a direction he wanted to go.
> 
> ...


 
There ya go. We are done. Please compare apples to apples and not apples and oranges. A disposal is not the same as a building sewer. This has gone to the ridiculous. Defend all you want. You do not have a vested interest in your customers well being. Your interest is getting the job done as long as the customer knows what they want even if that knowledge is limited. I now have all the information I need.

You do know that she does not have the knowledge and experience that you have concerning the difference in disposals and what is best for her and her family? Wants do change when knowledge is shared.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Ken have you ever gone to a job and the customers information was less than stellar? For me it is well over 80% they have not given me the right information.
> 
> The other day I was having fun and ordered a faucet with the side spray on the left side. Threw the guy for a loop.
> 
> ...


 No, its not that kind of price....the "fine print" so to speak always says if there are unforseen conditions that are not the norm things change and price....its not hard to communicate that over the phone or on the job. My printed warranty on my invoice disclaims certain conditions....still in control, t&m has cushions ....I dont know why this is such a sticky point....there are unknowns that a flat rate supposedly absorbs, but if something comes up, the customer has to get notified and the change is spelled out and agreed upon....people understand that and they understand if something changes or is more difficult there will probably be increases....only in a firm contract is there usually no wiggle room...but there are exceptions to that also.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> There ya go. We are done. Please compare apples to apples and not apples and oranges. A disposal is not the same as a building sewer. This has gone to the ridiculous. Defend all you want. You do not have a vested interest in your customers well being. Your interest is getting the job done as long as the customer knows what they want even if that knowledge is limited. I now have all the information I need.
> 
> You do know that she does not have the knowledge and experience that you have concerning the difference in disposals and what is best for her and her family? Wants do change when knowledge is shared.


I think your done because you finally realized there's no reason why I can't give a price over the phone. In person she still would have chose the badger5 and I would have installed it for the same money.

What's best for her is what she perceived was best for her. It's not my place to tell people whats best for them but only to give options.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> I think your done because you finally realized there's no reason why I can't give a price over the phone. In person she still would have chose the badger5 and I would have installed it for the same money.
> 
> What's best for her is what she perceived was best for her. It's not my place to tell people whats best for them but only to give options.


If I was to really tell her whats best I would have told her to quit smoking,lose 50 pounds and sell that POS house she lives in. That's what really would be best for her. Lol


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

stillaround said:


> No, its not that kind of price....the "fine print" so to speak always says if there are unforseen conditions that are not the norm things change and price....its not hard to communicate that over the phone or on the job. My printed warranty on my invoice disclaims certain conditions....still in control, t&m has cushions ....I dont know why this is such a sticky point....there are unknowns that a flat rate supposedly absorbs, but if something comes up, the customer has to get notified and the change is spelled out and agreed upon....people understand that and they understand if something changes or is more difficult there will probably be increases....only in a firm contract is there usually no wiggle room...but there are exceptions to that also.


I don't think he is arguing that your legally obligated to stick to your "over the phone price" Even when you say it could change while on the phone the customers suspicion meter goes up when you come out an go "Oh its gonna be more". One if my former employers used to say its a lot easier to go down then up.


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

Olemissplumber said:


> I think your done because you finally realized there's no reason why I can't give a price over the phone. In person she still would have chose the badger5 and I would have installed it for the same money.
> 
> What's best for her is what she perceived was best for her. It's not my place to tell people whats best for them but only to give options.


You didn't mention giving any options. What options did you give her?


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ms. Jones....I know I said it would be around $300 but it took 3 hours because the dogs had to be put up, there were appliances in the way and the piping was so fragile and deteriorated there I had to replace some of it.....but the good news is I charge t&m and you didnt have to pay unecessarily for a 17 year warranty that you didnt know you might have wanted.. but I did....and you didnt have to pay for any other upsells that you werent aware of ...but I was...no....I took all this into account and just charged you the extra time and materials. I hope you will forgive me for not explaining to you there are 6 grades of faucets and 4 levels of warranty and you ultimately only got what you wanted in your pitiful ignorant customer state of mind...bless you.....now go tell your mommy to write me a check.:jester:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

stillaround said:


> No, its not that kind of price....the "fine print" so to speak always says if there are unforseen conditions that are not the norm things change and price....its not hard to communicate that over the phone or on the job. My printed warranty on my invoice disclaims certain conditions....still in control, t&m has cushions ....I dont know why this is such a sticky point....there are unknowns that a flat rate supposedly absorbs, but if something comes up, the customer has to get notified and the change is spelled out and agreed upon....people understand that and they understand if something changes or is more difficult there will probably be increases....only in a firm contract is there usually no wiggle room...but there are exceptions to that also.


 
What good is the price? if anything it is misleading as the customer will always hear the price you gave and not the small fine print. You know this is a fact and the truth. If you want to give a honest price then you must ask the right questions on the phone to give them a price that is spot on. Why only diagnose halfway on the phone? If you do not inform people they do not know. You have objections to your new price when this crap happens. You said this over the phone.


What is on your invoiced is not relevant when you give a price over the phone.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

No it has become a joke. Wouldn't have you in my house.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

***


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## Gryphon Plumber (Jun 3, 2012)

After the job is done you let her know its extra? The good news is you don't warranty your work. It really is amazing that your "stillaround". Must be awkward running into your customers at the super market.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Chadillac80 said:


> I ran 11 calls today and average about 10 per day (normally) I work for a co that does 99% of their work for warranty co's so we stay busy. Whats the normal average calls a service plumber runs per day? It's been a few years since I've worked for an individual based co.


I used to think I was doing great by running 10 calls a day.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I used to think I was doing great by running 10 calls a day.


And I bet you realize now that running that number of calls is unproductive and unprofitable, compared to running a few calls.

The more calls a company runs per plumber, the more support staff that is needed to support the plumber. Support staff is costly - overhead must be increased, prices are raised to pay for it, and plumber is pressured to do even more calls. Vicious circle that produces nothing more than STRESS! 

1 plumber 8 service calls per day

8 Invoices / Sales Receipts to write 
8 Invoices / Sales Receipts to enter into accounting system
8 Checks to process and reconcile at the end of the month
10 - number of calls taken to book the 8 calls

24 - number of calls related to servicing the 8 calls (booking call, giving to plumber, plumber calling in to say that call is finished) + 16 - 24 more if you add plumber taking your call, calling customer to let them know he is late/early/on the way, leaving messages on ans. machines and getting a return call) + add 8 more if you do a follow-up, happy call! (48 phone calls can easily be required to service 8 customers!!!) OMB - Now that may explain why you don't feel like you enough time!

4 x's the amount of stickers, magnets, pens, etc. needed 
4 x's more advertising to increase call volume
80 miles put on the truck (based on 10 miles / call)
4 x's the amount of maintenance on truck (oil change, tires, etc.)
Downtime on truck increased (oil changes, getting tires rotated etc.)
Fuel bill, 4 x's the amount as compared to below
Truck useful life cut short



1 plumber 2 service calls per day

2 Invoices / Sales Receipts to write 
2 Invoices / Sales Receipts to enter into accounting system
2 Checks to process and reconcile at the end of the month
3 - number of calls taken to book the 2 calls

6 - number of calls related to servicing the 2 calls (booking call, giving to plumber, plumber calling in to say that call is finished) + 4 - 6 more if you add plumber taking your call, calling customer to let them know he is late/early/on the way, leaving messages on ans. machines and getting a return call) + add 2 more if you do a follow-up, happy call! (12 phone calls can easily be required to service 2 customers!!!)  

20 miles put on the truck (based on 10 miles / call)
Les maintenance on truck, less down time performing maintenance, less fuel needed to run truck, and useful life of truck is extended x 4!!!



Add tracking down parts / availability, missed calls, phone tag, etc. and the number of calls to service a customer can increase significantly. If the money being generated is comparable, then you are losing money and adding unnecessary stress to your life if you are running that many service calls.

Been there, done that!
Implementing new procedures to stop that!!! :yes:

Tired of feeling like my ears are bleeding at the end of the day, and telling my kids, "I don't want to talk. I just want peace and quiet."

Tired of hearing my cell ring after hours, or even the sound of my home phone generates the "STFU" thought in my head. Even if I see it's a family member, I don't want to answer. 

I'm stressed because every call is a request of my time and requires me to do something. Rather than complain about it, I am working on pinpointing the root cause and solving the problem. :yes:

The root cause of my daily stress is running too many calls per plumber. I have started booking only 2 - 3 calls per plumber and I am noticing my stress level going down. :yes: The plumbers stress volume is also decreasing. :yes: In the short time I have been changing things, profitability has already gone up.

Now you know why I have been so happy lately. I'm working much smarter, and less harder.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

Phat Cat said:


> And I bet you realize now that running that number of calls is unproductive and unprofitable, compared to running a few calls.
> 
> The more calls a company runs per plumber, the more support staff that is needed to support the plumber. Support staff is costly - overhead must be increased, prices are raised to pay for it, and plumber is pressured to do even more calls. Vicious circle that produces nothing more than STRESS!
> 
> ...


I'm making decent money were I'm at and I only have to run like this for 2 more years. When I start my biz I def won't be running 10 calls a day :laughing: I just don't really see the need to move around with such a short period of time left. As far as the call volume I have no choice.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Richard Hilliard said:


> What good is the price? if anything it is misleading as the customer will always hear the price you gave and not the small fine print. You know this is a fact and the truth....
> What is on your invoiced is not relevant when you give a price over the phone.


That's always been the rule. I'll quote the hourly and part mark-up, but when a new customer insists on a price-over-the-phone (usually to avoid the estimate fee), I'll let the job go.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

You need to base yourself on 3-4 calls max a day. If it gets more than that hire a mother plumber. If you get so many plumbers you can't keep up hire office person. This has been the model for years I do not understand why it is so hard to get across to the younger guy's. the rate you are going you will take two different paths, one is the path of burnout if you keep it up you will simply get to a point you don't care sloppy work and stupid mistakes will take over and you will lose customers over it. Two is the faster you work the less you care about the person you are there to serve, the trade is a very personal trade. How many people would tell of what they did to plug a stool to the people at work? But they have to tell there plumber because he will know,so if you take the personalized care out they won't call you back. If you slow down and care about the customer you will be back. If you slow down and get it right and do it neatly you will be back. If you need to hire somebody and adjust your rate you were probably to cheap to start with.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Chadillac80 said:


> I ran 11 calls today and average about 10 per day (normally) I work for a co that does 99% of their work for warranty co's so we stay busy. Whats the normal average calls a service plumber runs per day? It's been a few years since I've worked for an individual based co.


To the OP, one of the most glaring indicators of a company teetering on the brink of collapse is working to be busy. 

Why did the owner go into business? Why did the employee get a job? Out of boredom? To be "BUSY"? No. Maybe it was a sense of duty to protect their community's potable water supply. Ha, yeah right. **feel free to read in an overly sarcastic tone**. So why do they/we/us/them/y'all do it?

MONEY. And not money just for rent, beans & rice, healthcare, and bus fare. We want money for Corvettes, Harley's, Pipers, vacations in Fiji, diamond rings, our children's toys, William Rast jeans for ourselves, Giuseppe Zanotti shoes for our wives, steak & lobster dinners, retirement security, charitable donations, gifts for friends, gifts for family, chick-magnet boats (or a pontoon for me :laughing: ). and the self pride that comes with accomplishing all of the above.

Anyone that says they are in this trade just for the beans & rice would say so for only three reasons....

1. They are lying to themselves 
2. They are lying to everyone else
3. All of the above

Either way, they are lying. 

The only differences are what level above bare minimum we wish to be at, how hard we are willing to work, and what we are willing to sacrifice to get there. So with the premise being to gain money over and above our bare needs, it only makes sense to maximize the amount earned. Here are the four categories our life as Professional Service Plumbers fall into:

1. For those the idea of selling on the job to a customer may be distasteful. They may have a skewed sense of how important ethical selling really is. Or, maybe they just don't like it. They stomach it just long enough to land the gig they want and then just want to do their work and collect a check. They want to get their 40...no more and no less. A predictable paycheck and a comfortable budget.

2. Then there are those that are happy and excited to resell themselves to everyone, everywhere, every day. They may view the process as a welcomed daily personal challenge or they think the sky is the limit for their income. Either way, it is as much who they are as it is what they do. Plumbers with this mindset often give it a go running their own business. Some enjoy wild success but most fail. Of those that fail, it is most often a slow agonizing event that tears away at their very foundation of self and family. Why does this happen? Because running a business is not just about being a world class Plumber and world class Salesman. It is also being a Business Operator and that is a trade in and of itself that very few train properly for. In reality, there really is no "proper" training. Much is learned in realtime. 

3. In between is the real gravy spot. The plumber willing to sell beyond the customer's current symptom and address their real problems. This increases revenue per call, personal income, and customer loyalty while dramatically reducing overhead expenses such as non-billable wages, vehicle expenses, and marketing costs.

Any one of these three categories can be very rewarding. None is better or worse than the other. Just different. Like apples and oranges, they are both good for you. You just have to pick the one you are willing to eat.

4. This is the worst case scenario. This is the guy that wants category #1 and thought opening a business and taking ownership of his job was the answer. It is not. The better solution to a bad job is to find a better one, not start a business.

As far as selling plumbing repairs over the phone is concerned...no one is denying that it can be done and be done consistently. The problem? It is one of the most (if not the most) detrimental actions a plumbing service company can take. It is ALWAYS in the best interest of the customer, the plumber, and the plumbing company for the sale to happen in the presence of two things...

1. The problem to be solved
2. The checkbook paying for the solution

Neither of those two things are present on the phone. What should be sold on the phone is you ability to diagnose and solve the problem, not the diagnosis and solution to the problem. That would be a fool's game even on a good day.

Can we sell over the phone? Sure. But that is only because when we aim low, we never miss.


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with giving a range of price over the phone.

If a customer calls and asks me whats the average price for basic water heater installation or basic toilet installation or a multitude of other plumbing jobs I can give that range within seconds.

Does that guarantee that this customers job will be basic? Well it sure does not and if you communicate that and the customer acknowledges that,there is no problem.

Trust is what I sell on the phone. I answer the customers questions and concerns on the phone and most appreciate the price range with the understanding that the range is for normal installs and the price could change.

My willingness to play ball on the phone and the confidence I present along with knowledge gains the customers trust.

After the job is completed in the price range I gave OR the problem was explained and shown in person for a price increase MORE trust is established and a real relationship has started between the customer and the plumber.

Once the relationship is established the customer opens up and floods me with more work requests and spread my good name to their friends and family.

Everyone has a way to do business and saying one way is the best way is arrogant and condescending.

Business models differ even between companies that are in the same profession while both being profitable and having high customer satisfaction ranking.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> To the OP, one of the most glaring indicators of a company teetering on the brink of collapse is working to be busy.
> 
> Why did the owner go into business? Why did the employee get a job? Out of boredom? To be "BUSY"? No. Maybe it was a sense of duty to protect their community's potable water supply. Ha, yeah right. **feel free to read in an overly sarcastic tone**. So why do they/we/us/them/y'all do it?
> 
> ...


The co I work for clears 2.5 million per year and they stay VERY busy. Just because you or anybody else for that matter are successful in doing things "your" way doesn't mean it's the "right" way. TO EACH HIS OWN. I asked a simple question of how many calls the average plumber runs per day not for y'all to go back and forth about who does what, when, where and how. I find it rather amusing ;-) "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life...as by the obstacles which he has overcome while trying to succeed."


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## Olemissplumber (Dec 7, 2012)

We do 4-6 a day and some times more if emergencies call in.

I apologize if I have contributed to side tracking your original post.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Flat rate companies keep me in business very well. It's awesome to be the 'next in line' after the 100 page glossy colored book is shut, and the sales pitch is over, heartbroken that they are going home empty handed to pick up the phone and listen to a sharpshooter like myself. 

Effective speaking is the key to closing sales over the phone, *along with your reputation. 
*


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

"closing sales over the phone" :laughing:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

A sail is fairly easy to do over the phone. If you know your area and allow for any unforeseen complications good luck. You on average will come out on top but be prepared to take a hit every once in awhile .


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

I sell over text messages and emails and occasionally smoke signalling.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

A flashlight at close range will work to


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I sail while riding around in my boat... :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> To the OP, one of the most glaring indicators of a company teetering on the brink of collapse is working to be busy.


I'd rather be out in my boat fishing, than working my butt off losing money...
A day out on the boat fishing costs a lot less & is much more enjoyable...

Work Sucks... So it is something I have to be paid to do...
If I'm losing money on the work how am I being paid?:whistling2:

Mr. Biz I think you have summed it up well in that one line... :thumbup:


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## ROTOR KING (Oct 7, 2008)

3 to 4 calls a day ,


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