# Catastrophic barrier pex failure



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

This tube was installed about 3 years ago. Residential hot water boiler. I got the call last night. The ho had cut the burst section out, and was trying to hose clamp a piece of copper. :no: The place was a steamy, humid, flooded mess. (finished basement). Amazing that no one got scalded, ( or worse) when that let go. 

I cut the entire section out, and replaced it with copper. It was about 12 feet total. ( I'll post more pics in a bit.) It was installed to get under a siding patio door on the first floor. 

There are some deep scratches on the tube. It appears to be from expansion. The 12' length is also "set" (molded) into an odd shape. There were 3 talons holding the pex to the side of a floor joist. The pressure in the boiler was a little high, at around 25 psi. I gotta get back and check the feeder. The local gas utility was there last week to replace a circulator, and they also got rid of the steel expansion tank, and replace it with a 15 extrol :furious:(She has a service contract with them, them mudda fuggas)

I have used this stuff a bit in the past, but no more. It will be copper for now on, on heating. Period.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

O **** I did basement heat in that stuff. Maybe rats got to it? Or something. That's too strange, are you sure HO didn't fart with it and made it worse?


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't think that the ho made the pipe condition change. That pipe is super stiff. You can not make it flex. It is formed in that split condition. 

Also, there was mouse droppings in that drop ceiling, right there. I wonder if that may be a possibility? 

I am going to get the rep to my shop, and get them to look at that pipe.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

more


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Pex is way better than copper and you can't change my mind!:jester:


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

It almost looks like when they installed it, it was scratching against something.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

The last time I saw something that looked like that was when I got too close to a hydronic line with my torch.

And it looked *EXACTLY* like that -- Even down to the horizontal lines in the tubing's outer coating.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

over heating was the cause


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Protech said:


> over heating was the cause


What he said. No two ways about it. Probably steam. Is it possible the utility clowns created steam when they changed the pump and expansion device?


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't see how. It's tube and fin baseboard. Weil Mclain EG boiler. 

I understand that they were there 2 or 3 days ago. (This happened yesterday)


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

RLP there's a ton of traffic heading this way to your subject here. You've been warned!





jjbex said:


> Pex is way better than copper and you can't change my mind!:jester:


 
Now stop that! _*(smacks hand with ruler)*_


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

And I'm not going to try and explain how.

It's just completely obvious that the pex was cooked to death under pressure. Just look at it.

For all I know mutant hamsters shot it with infrared ray guns.



RealLivePlumber said:


> I don't see how. It's tube and fin baseboard. Weil Mclain EG boiler.
> 
> I understand that they were there 2 or 3 days ago. (This happened yesterday)


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Does make sense ,,,, mutant hamsters do carry ray guns AND ,,,they don't eat Zombies either .


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*look on the bright side*

fellas, this pex stuff is great.....!!!!

especially in a slow economy.....:thumbup:

its going to go bad like this a lot over the next 
decade all over the place, so this will keep everyone in business doing catastrophic repairs.......:laughing:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I do understand that you have an agenda to push but........that pex didn't "go bad". It was cooked.

It would be like saying copper "went bad" after getting struck my lightening .

Here is central Florida, re-piping copper houses over to pex (not vise versa) is a multi-million dollar industry.



Master Mark said:


> fellas, this pex stuff is great.....!!!!
> 
> especially in a slow economy.....:thumbup:
> 
> ...


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## Nevada Plumber (Jan 3, 2009)

Protech said:


> over heating was the cause



I've seen the same exact thing happen before also.


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

I dont think your getting the whole story.

Most likely froze from being under the sliding door sill plate, after the circulator died. The scratch marks are actually stretch marks from expanding. The black on the outside is someone taking a torch to it to melt the ice block, and the black inside is normal hydronic system oxidation.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

In other words, it froze. Then someone cooked it trying to thaw it out to get the line flowing again.








deduction good sir.



ZL700 said:


> I dont think your getting the whole story.
> 
> Most likely froze from being under the sliding door sill plate, after the circulator died. The scratch marks are actually stretch marks from expanding. The black on the outside is someone taking a torch to it to melt the ice block, and the black inside is normal hydronic system oxidation.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

I have seen PEX look like that 3 times from excessive heat. All three on solar systems where the PEX transitioned from copper off the WH. I still have one of them that is red and looks almost identical to what you have there. As soon as my camera battery charges I will post it up. It has the lines (from stretching, not scratching) and is hard as Chinese arithmetic where it was hot.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Twas not the zone that the circ was replaced on. (5 zones, 5 circs.) I don't think it froze. There was no air movement in the bay. The box was insulated plenty. The basement is warm. 

I don't think that there was a torch on it, either. 

Anyway, something happened. 

So the rep called me back today. Guess what he said. 

"first time I ever heard of this happening"

:laughing::furious:


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## minisplit (Feb 8, 2011)

I use only Wirsbo pex, [only company to uotlive ther warranty] I've seen this only once. Cooked by steam!! indoor woodburner "one of those european jobs" power failiar ' no circ wood burner disigned not to shut damper 100% so it cooked it. pipe became super hard scratchs and stretch marks.
I run 190*-200* water through wirsbo he-pex w/ no problem


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I got to agree with protech on this one....

seems there must have been a high temp high pressure situation......

question is... why did the system not shut down...... the safeties must be checked

first off the high limit should have kicked in......

second off the pressure relief valve should have kicked in...


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## ZeePlumber (Mar 18, 2011)

RealLivePlumber said:


> This tube was installed about 3 years ago. Residential hot water boiler. I got the call last night. The ho had cut the burst section out, and was trying to hose clamp a piece of copper. :no: The place was a steamy, humid, flooded mess. (finished basement). Amazing that no one got scalded, ( or worse) when that let go.
> 
> I cut the entire section out, and replaced it with copper. It was about 12 feet total. ( I'll post more pics in a bit.) It was installed to get under a siding patio door on the first floor.
> 
> ...


I know this thread is old, but is there any chance they installed a check after the expansion tank? That may explain why the high limit and T&P didn't didn't get the chance prevent this.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

No, not check valve. 

Funny this thread came up. I still have not heard a word from Zurn. I just e mailed the rep again, yesterday morning. No reply as of yet. 

I guess they figure if they ignore it long enough, it'll go away:no:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> I just e mailed the rep again, yesterday morning. No reply as of yet.
> 
> I guess they figure if they ignore it long enough, it'll go away:no:


Isn't that what landed them in a class action? :laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

*Yeah, thats what I thought.*

:furious:


*From:* Howard, Monty [mailto:[email protected]] 
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2011 3:03 PM
*To:* RJ
*Cc:* Dundon, John; Keystone Sales - Durkin, Bill
*Subject:* RE: Zurn barrier pex failure

The tubing passed all tests for composition and size. There were no manufacturing defects in the tubing.

Monty


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

thats all they had to say huh?.. thats lame


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Well, there wasn't any manufacturing defects. THE PIPE WAS COOKED TO DEATH. Can someone explain how that is their fault?



Plumbworker said:


> thats all they had to say huh?.. thats lame


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