# What's the point of a permit?



## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

I want you guys to tell me (playing devils advocate here) what the point of getting a permit is. Believe me - I believe in permits, but when a homeowner questions the extra permit cost, I'd be interested in you telling me what the point is. Let's explore ALL the benefits of getting a permit for said work.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

In theory, protects the property owner and future property owner from potential health and damage risks by administering and enforcing procedures and proper materials set forth in law.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Up here you need a plumbing permit and it has to be a licensed plumber taking it out.


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## copperhead (Dec 26, 2009)

City revenue


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

copperhead said:


> City revenue


There is a couple of cities I have worked in where there is no fee for the permits. So City revenue, would be invalid in their case.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> There is a couple of cities I have worked in where there is no fee for the permits. So City revenue, would be invalid in their case.


They usually pay attention to improvements on property to make adjustments to the property values for property tax purposes...

That usually pays off bigger than an inspection fee...


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I like to hide behind permits/inspections for my own protection..................."Hey the inspector approved that mess"


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Plumbing permits can only be pulled by licensed plumbers here as well. 

The fee's here vary from town to town. You must call each town to see what their fee's are, and hope you can get ahold of someone that knows WTF they are talking about. Most inspectors are only in their office about an hour or so a day. Most of them you must talk to directly to get an inspection. Also it's the plumbers responsibility to insure that the HO is going to be there at inspection time, or you must meet him there yourself to insure he can get in. This can be a real PITA for small jobs, like water heaters or gas range installs. If a permit is involved, I have to charge to cover the fee's and extra time setting up the inspection. If it's a bigger job then I will want to meet him there anyway.

Oh, to answer your question, I would say the reasons to get a permit would be to help cover yourself in the event of a lawsuit, and to protect your license. If caught in Mass not pulling a permit you will have to go before the plumbing board, which usually results in fines and/or license suspension.

If you don't have a license, you can do whatever you want and usually nothing will happen:blink:.


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

I think Stillaround has the right idea as far as what I'm aiming at with this thread. Think bigger picture when answering the question. If a homeowner questions the validity of a permit, on top of the fiscal things in place to try and "persuade" contractors and homeowners to get permits which you can mention, on top of often times their property insurance can require them (obviously) for any work done, what about its (supposed) role in ensuring the safety and protection of properly installed appliances, fixtures, etc.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

*Permits*

In my opinion they are helpful to any trade. The homeowner has some independent third party to give them an unbiased opinion about their project. If I were building an addition to my home, and inspector said the hurricane straps were not to code, I would be happy for his advice. 
For example, with med gas installs, and independent third party other than installing contractor has to perform a verification test. 
But what I think is over-reaching is when I have to apply for a permit just to test and re-certify a backflow. I understand to replace an existing or a new install, but to test?:blink:


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## PlumbThis1 (Apr 15, 2010)

Do you have to be a master to pull permits in your area?


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*permits*

It is third party protection for the home owner and company. Great for home owners who purchase homes that they will sell a source of proof that the work has been completed in the proper manner.

For a while banks demanded homeowners put money in escrow for future re-pipes. Homeowners in Sarasota that had re-pipes done without a permit had to invest in the escrow accounts for a period of one year.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

A permit is worth what ever it cost. So many builders here, I bid, they dont want a permit pulled, so I walk. Next.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Who is liable when something is inspected and there are blatant code violations?

Example: Recently worked in a condo building where the water heaters did not have shut-off valves.

Builder responsible, plumbing company? And what about the inspector who blessed it?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Scott K said:


> I want you guys to tell me (playing devils advocate here) what the point of getting a permit is. Believe me - I believe in permits, but when a homeowner questions the extra permit cost, I'd be interested in you telling me what the point is. Let's explore ALL the benefits of getting a permit for said work.


 

99% politics/government BS, 1% protection of the public


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

Would you say the same thing about the Gas Inspector Dunbar?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Scott K said:


> Would you say the same thing about the Gas Inspector Dunbar?


Or, Backflow Prevention?:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Scott K said:


> Would you say the same thing about the Gas Inspector Dunbar?


 
I will because our city does not have a gas inspector for residental construction......the gas provider does that and its FREE no permit required. The city has nothing to do with gas pipe inspections for a residence here. But the same city wants a permit if you build a fence:laughing: I was told by a city inspector they they dont want the liability.....like they are liable for anything anyway:whistling2: Didn't make sense to me and still doesn't.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Scott K said:


> Would you say the same thing about the Gas Inspector Dunbar?


 

Think of it as this way...


At only one point, in the total existence of a structure, a gas line in a home is inspected, completely.


How many years, how many changes of hands, no gas inspector. 


Just think of it that way, and look at what is sold constantly at big box stores, what is used by DIY'rs and there you have the percentages. 


I've seen some F'd up gas line systems that were even inspected....trying to get someone to fine, repair/replace if it isn't leaking is usually a blind move.

Home inspectors during house sales are usually picking and choosing what needs to be done...with absolutely no authority most times other than the power of holding up a sale, and it will.


On the subject of backflow...

Damn near non-existent enforcement here in Kentucky. 

At least not down on the residential side....on the commercial side they prioritize on 2" and above, not 2" and below. 

They have been getting better. 

The world could take a strong lesson from Tennessee and their backflow prevention programs. << Top notch.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Can someone please answer my question? 

Are inspectors liable for overlooking code violations since they are getting paid to inspect?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Can someone please answer my question?
> 
> Are inspectors liable for overlooking code violations since they are getting paid to inspect?


No.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Can someone please answer my question?
> 
> Are inspectors liable for overlooking code violations since they are getting paid to inspect?


 

:laughing: I think the jury is still out on that. It probably depends on the jurisdicton, and the individual case, the judge, the attorney's ability to argue, etc.


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## njoy plumbing (May 19, 2009)

Every one is liable in a court of law. But an inspector seems to dodge those issues amongst his peers as the are mostly beaurocratic bafoons themselves.:whistling2:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

good god, I think we may have just agreed on something 



DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> 99% politics/government BS, 1% protection of the public


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