# Homeowners who blame the plumber



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Had a call once for no water. I go out and find that the pump wire was broken. Told the HO and fixed it. Tested the pump while it was above ground and it did not run. Told the HO who said go ahead and replace it. Replaced it, then it would not run, so I checked the pressure switch, it was burned. Told the HO that it too needed to be replaced. He said replace it then, to which I did. Got the thing running and when I turned the faucet on the pump kicked right in, cut the tap off the pump stopped. Checked the air ballast tank, and sure enough it was full of water. Told the HO about the ruptured tank bladder to which he said "I bet you dont even know what you are doing! You are just replacing everything!" I tried to explain the order of events that led up to all this mess

First the bladder went bad, which causes the pump to cycle excessively, when it does this the points are constantly opening and closing which causes the electricity to jump the gap and burn out the points. The points stuck shut and the pump ran untill it burned out. 

They did not want to hear it, I was just an idiot who knew nothing. Oh well, they paid me but I never got called back for anything


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

The worst are customers who have absolutely ZERO grasp of simple mechanics, yet they want to argue about how you are doing the job wrong.
I once cabled a drain for a commercial kitchen. A few days later, the owner calls complaining that the water is rusty and we must have made it that way when we cabled the drain!!!:blink: How do you explain to someone that the waterpipes and drain pipes are entirely separate when they are that retarded?:wacko::help:


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

HA, love that one!
Most times though it probably someone who screwed up in the past and concocted some tale that the HO thinks is true, then you try to explain logic to them they dont want to hear it!


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

i went to look at a possible slab leak for this customer years ago and we were talking about whether the water lines were below the slab or in the attic. she says "all the pipes are overhead". i spent literally a half hour trying to convince her that her drain lines are below the slab. "no, i'm pretty sure everything is in the attic". mechanical aptitude is one thing but if you can't grasp the law of gravity it's tough to get too far.







paul


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

i HAD THE SAME ho rocksteady TALKED ABOUT. hE JUST KEPT SAYING.................But, 

but but you can't get under the slab.:furious:



*Idiot!:furious:*


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

Had a call back for a mysterious leak under the kitchen sink after we had put a loop in the dishwasher line for them. Asked them if it leaked when they ran the dishwasher. Nope.

But they didn't have a leak until we worked on the dishwasher.

Culprit - an old jug of water in a plastic bottle was leaking! We didn't charge him, but this kind of stupidity really ticks you off!

Bill your story made me laugh - recently went through a water heater job like that. HO couldn't understand why the gate valve failed.


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

Plumbcrazy,
It might help to cure the customers need to blame the last guy there, if you had charged for a service call after showing him the culprit.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

HAHAHAHA, I had this the other day, simple toilet stoppage, cleared it with the auger, noticed the fill valve float was holding water, rebuilt the toilet, 3rd time around, noticed water coming from underneath the toilet, old the customer it had ot be reset, this time I told her husband to come home so I could explain what was going on.

Found out the toilet usualy ran before th stoppage, and he plunged the toilet and blew apart the wax trying to clear the stoppage before he called me. 

It all made since!! First time customer, I told them straight out I was not trying to drive the invoice up!


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## pzmember (Sep 20, 2008)

ive had them also. do you ever want to just get sadistic and find out where they work, and hire them for thier service, and ***** at them incessently about how they dont know what they are doing. its not high up on my list of things to do, but its on the list.:laughing:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Worked for a large company years ago ,,,, had one plumber who ONLY prided himself on doing as many service calls in a day AS WAS POSSIBLE ,,, he took NO pride in his work or his ethics ,,, ANYWAY ,,, I was sent on one of his call backs were :
Plumber A had told the HO that the hot water spraying under their K/S was from an underground hot spring :whistling2: .

I get there , crawl under the sink and find a pin hole in the hot line just behind the valve causing a fine mist and a lot of hot water blah,blah .
Tell the customer what was happening and what i would do to make it right.

OH NO ,,, " Plumber A said we are sitting on a natural Hot Spring and he MUST know what he is talking about because he also told us how he averages 12-15 calls PER DAY ! . So we want our cabinets pulled out and our floor jack hammered up to re route the Hot Spring !! "

uh huh ,,,, I fixed her leak in 15 minutes and left her to her foolish beliefs.

You can't fix Stupid !!

Cal


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

A Good Plumber said:


> Plumbcrazy,
> It might help to cure the customers need to blame the last guy there, if you had charged for a service call after showing him the culprit.


You can't fix stupid. The last thing we need is a stupid guy badmouthing our company. We are in growth mode, so more often than not the customer is always right.

If the saying "what comes around goes around" is true, we should be hitting the mother load anyday now. :laughing:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

i went to one house twice for a tub stoppage. each time the trip lever was left up and all i did was drain the tub. i brought the tenant in and showed them that the drain works if you let it drain. the next time i went out it was because the room mate thought the tub was backed up. i had to have the same conversation with him too. at least they're living together and not dumbing down otherwise smart households.






paul


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## Dana S (Dec 15, 2008)

These stories kill me. and it is only going to get worse as the computer generation gets older.


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## PipemanNYC (Nov 21, 2008)

I have a story its not a plumbing story but an electricians story.. A friend of mine go to to a job at a womans house. I beleive it was a light fixture outside her front door. well a day later he gets a call back from the h.o. Her chandeleir in her dining room one of those with 500 crystals on it out of the blue falls on her glass dining room table. So she calls him and insists its his fault because he worked on the electricity.. and that there was a surge because he changed the light outside that caused the fixture to come off the ceiling.. now thats a stupid h.o.
Later they found out the maid was spinning the light to clean all the crystals day after day.. it eventualy spun close enough to spin right off...


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## ROTOR KING (Oct 7, 2008)

I did a kitchen sink install ,normally what i do to test the drains,I fill up the sink,and let it drain.The sink blocks.which I have seen before.long story short,I unblocked it using a rotor,which I had to pass several times.Im figuring the line was full of grease,and pushed all the grease into a section,when i let go the water in the sink.She did not want to pay me,she said i blocked the sink,she said i deserve 30 dollars for the sink install.She called me a month later for more work,and got upset when i refused.thats stupid.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

ROTOR KING said:


> I did a kitchen sink install ,normally what i do to test the drains,I fill up the sink,and let it drain.The sink blocks.which I have seen before.long story short,I unblocked it using a rotor,which I had to pass several times.Im figuring the line was full of grease,and pushed all the grease into a section,when i let go the water in the sink.She did not want to pay me,she said i blocked the sink,she said i deserve 30 dollars for the sink install.She called me a month later for more work,and got upset when i refused.thats stupid.


$30 for a kitchen sink install and free cable job??? Thats insane.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Plumbcrazy said:


> We are in growth mode, so more often than not the customer is always right.


 


Noooooo no no no no.



That's not true, and there's no way that's true. The customer is NOT always right and to be scared of the customer just because you're in the "growth" mode, is not going to do you any favors, except cost you money in return to "thinking" that's the answer to idiots like these.


If there's any strength to your company, you can assure yourself that if you're following the 70% rule, you'll get by just fine and tossing the idiots to the side are a good way of standing up for your own business practices.


I followed that ritual you spoke of early on and wised up quickly, because people that screw you over are not exactly a huge crowd, they are a limited bunch.


There's tons of people that will never call my services again and that's fine; I keep the wheels turning every week and apparently I've done something correctly with the repeat business and the ongoing calls.

The last thing I offer is someone getting the upper hand on me thinking I give 2 flying ****s about reputation and concern for how I appear.


I've already proved that countless times and that 30% I'll never convince otherwise, **** them and the horse they rode in on. I'm not here to give the trade away, I'm treating the customer properly and any friction coming from their end would indicate they are pure **** in my opinion. They will be treated as such with every intention of me hoping they go and tell a bunch of people the same thing. 

They flock together and don't think they don't. 


I've had bad dealings with other companies before, and I don't "keep" talking about them. It quickly leaves the mind and life moves on. That's how it is with everything generally in life. 

Wishing hardship on others on the turnaround is wishful thinking at best, putting up a hard fight for what you know is right from the go, is defiance against stupidity and there are some who will test this standard constantly.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah, I agree with Dunbar here. Less than 2 years on my own, of course I am still in the growth mode. No excuse to let people walk on me like a doormat.
Plumbcrazy, one observation is that you seem to operate out of fear. You have told us multiple times that you have fear over raising your prices, fear of losing customers, fear of not growing the company, fear of getting a bad reputation, etc, etc.

One of the reasons I started on my own is that I run the show. If a customer doesn't like how I run the show...they are free to call the competition. I would rather have 5 good customers, rather than 10 bad ones. That is one reason I plan on keeping the business small. I get to "pick" my customers that way.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Dunbar, you have a way with words. The more I read your post, the more poetic gems I get out of it.:laughing:

Deep thoughts...by Roast Duck.:laughing: ...priceless.


> •The customer is NOT always right and to be scared of the customer just because you're in the "growth" mode, is not going to do you any favors, except cost you money.
> 
> 
> •You'll get by just fine tossing the idiots to the side.
> ...


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

service guy said:


> Yeah, I agree with Dunbar here. Less than 2 years on my own, of course I am still in the growth mode. No excuse to let people walk on me like a doormat.
> Plumbcrazy, one observation is that you seem to operate out of fear. You have told us multiple times that you have fear over raising your prices, fear of losing customers, fear of not growing the company, fear of getting a bad reputation, etc, etc.
> 
> One of the reasons I started on my own is that I run the show. If a customer doesn't like how I run the show...they are free to call the competition. I would rather have 5 good customers, rather than 10 bad ones. That is one reason I plan on keeping the business small. I get to "pick" my customers that way.


Dunbar & Service Guy - In all fairness, you are one man operations. After one year, we had two trucks and were profitable at the same time. When I complain, I am referring to a handful of customers out of 1474 jobs this past year. Most are appreciative. The PITA, we bend over once to try an accomodate. If it happens a second time, we get rid of the customer. Right now, I can think of five customers that we will not work for. That averages about one a year.

Fear - You are correct about operating out of fear. 

Raising prices - If we raise our prices just 10%, but lose 30% of our customer base - we lose. Today's economy is unchartered territory. Even those who appreciate service and quality are penny pinching. Plumbing is not valued very much by the consumer. The average consumer (one who hasn't been burned) thinks all plumbers are alike. Rather than raise prices, I am looking to cut costs. Just a different approach to becoming more profitable. Like it or not, we may very well be entering into a period of Deflation.

Losing customers - This is plain economics. The average customer costs $100.00 to reach. If we lose 20 customers, in my mind we have lost $2,000.00.

Bad reputation - The upfront price companies are hurting more than the T & M guys right now. ARS which had 125 people (plg, elec.) layed off 75 people over night. Their trucks sit in their parking lot day after day. We have a loyal base and if it wasn't for them, we would have been out of business too. New business has practically stopped, except for the emergency call. 

Why you cannot stay small - If you get the flu, who is taking care of your customers? In emergencies, they will not wait. If you break your leg, you have no business and no income. A one man shop cannot get the same discount as a busier shop. etc.

If these were your only two options, which would you choose.

1. Be a doormat and laugh all the way to the bank.

2. Being right and wondering how you are going to pay your bills.

I choose option 1. However, I try to operate somewhere in the middle.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I installed sprinkler systems for a few years and that certainly brings out the stupid in people.

One wealthy customer insisted that the sprinkler heads were skipping. He was running them on a very hot summer day (I had told him they need to be run early in the morning or late at night), and when it got to the trenched dirt it would evaporate as quickly as it watered. Nothing I could do would convince him that the sprinkler didn't shut off when it got to the trench line.

Another customer thought that one head was not watering. It was a corner head so it put out considerably less water than a 180 degree head or full-circle head. I finally had to stand in front of it and get soaked to show him that water was indeed coming out of it.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Well, if it works for you Cat, then keep doing it! I have an opposite philosophy that works for me. But that is why we chose to be business owners in the first place, so we can do things our own way!:thumbsup:

In the situation you described, (the leaky water bottle story) I probably wouldn't have charged the customer either. But I try not to make it a habit of driving around for free.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

I fall somewhere between Dunbar and PC on this. I absolutely choose who I will work for and who I won't. So far, the only people whom I will not work for are those who have written me bad checks and didn't make them right. I think that totals about 3 or 4 people since Feb '03. 

Dunbar, you may very well be correct about your attitude with your customers not affecting you long term. There is a company just down the road from me with absolutely no reservations about absolutely ripping people off. I'm talking 40k to replace 40' of sewer line with nothing special about it. It is their common practice to arrive, start working, and hand a bill when it's all over having never given any indication what it might cost before hand. Now I am not comparing you to them as far as these practices go but only in this one aspect. It absolutely mystifies me how they stay in business. I follow their work all over town and get an earfull of complaints about the way they do things. The only answer I can come with is that there must be an inexhaustable supply of customers and you are probably right in that if people aren't happy they generally don't go on crusades about it, they just move on. Let me be perfectly clear about this, I am not accusing you of ripping anybody off, how could I, I don't know anything about how you charge for your services. It does seem however that customer service stops at solving the problem for you and what impression you make on the customer with respect to your appearance, hygiene, etc. is of no importance and if they don't like it they can lump it. It's not how I would do things but hey, it's like SG said, that's why we all went into business so we could have it our way. So more power to ya! You make me look better all the time .

PC, I don't want to look like I'm ganging up on you because I'm not. I understand your market may be a little tougher than most in that anybody with a truck and a bag of tools can call themselves a plumber in your state. I know this fact will tend to keep the _average_ price of plumbing tasks lower than it might be elsewhere. However, SG makes a couple of good points. The first one is, don't be average and the second is fear is crippling. People will pay more than you think they will. We are often our own worst enemies. It seems like everytime I price something and I think man I've really gone over the line this time, something will happen that was unforseen and had I not priced the way I did I would have gotten hurt on the deal. People do value great service. It's proven to me over and over again. This past week for example I got a call from people who wanted a new insta hot, ks faucet, install gas cook top. When I got there the lady had no idea what faucet she wanted. The insta hot would have to match or at least come very close so we couldn't get that until she selected a faucet. She had the gas cook top on site but it was a scratch and dent that was out of the box and she didn't have the install instructions so I couldn't even inventory the parts. We agreed that she would go to an online show room and select her faucet. In the meantime I would obtain the install data. So as it turned out, on the first day I wound up replacing 1 toilet seat, tightening the bolts on another, adjusting the pop up assembly on a lav faucet that someone had tied up with some kind of wire, and properly anchoring a Delta ks faucet that 2 other plumbers had failed to figure out how to do (they give you that little socket wrench for a reason). I think the total for this was $507. I returned the next day and installed the cook top for I think it was $527. I got an email yesterday with faucet and instahot selections and a voice mail message today authorizing me to go ahead and install the selections she made ... I haven't even quoted her the price on her selections yet ... she doesn't care because she likes the service that I give. Nevertheless she will be informed before I begin how much it will cost. It's just how I do things.

I promise you you can raise your prices and not lose any more customers than you would have anyway.


P.S. I was probably actually low on the cook top price. It was a pain in the neck. The blower duct was off set with the new blower assembly being lower than the old one. I'm thinking $695 or $795 for this install next time.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> Dunbar, you may very well be correct about your attitude


 

Oh I am. I'm not a pushover like some customers like to treat service providers. I have 70% pulling for me and the 30% can go F**K themselves for all I care.


To PlumbCrazy,


All of our humble beginnings can be marked identical in so many ways, but if you take it laying down when a customer wants something for nothing, it continues the pattern for that same customer to do it again, and again, and again. 

I'm going to have fun at other people's expense in this business if they feel they are going to try and stiff me. That's the only time I make myself clear that I am not pleasant, I am a prick, and I am going to make you think I'm a horrible person. It's a good feeling because to feel that way I made sure that someone who tried to take advantage of me, found out the hard way that I'm not the average plumbing company toting around in a truck trying to save face because I need a paycheck. 

Never. I have the huge rolodex of satisfied customers to aid me when I want to bash the bad ones. I'm a guy that loves to say no to somebody when they call up thinking they deserve something for nothing. And then I add my two cents. 

Nothing wrong with being a prick when a prick is on the other end of the phone.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I like the HOs that sit or stand and watch every little thing that you are doing. I had this one afterhours call about 6yrs ago. I told the guy plain as day that the rate was this amount and that it was a one hour min. Well, he agreed and said, please come as soon as you can. Get there, broken main at the meter. he had it dug up already, took 30 min. hand him the bill, then he aruges about the amount, "you were only here 30 min" I tried to play nice and tell him about travel time, gas, experience, all that stuff. The Dude had the balls to tell me that "From what i saw, you only did about 20$worth of work." I hopped in the van and left. WTF america, has it gotton that bad?


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

Rockstar, you should have taken about 5 more minutes and removed the materials you installed before leaving. 

Unless of course, he paid you in full.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

i hear that all the time. "i could'a done it but..." i don't give a damn why you didn't do it. i'm the one that did it and you have to pay me. 




paul


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## PaulW (Jul 31, 2008)

Here is one you can pass along to the D.I.Y.'er,

Years ago i was in service and was called out to a home where the H.O. was trying to replace the 1225 cartridge in a Moen shower faucet, which the guy at Home depot said was, "as easy as pulling the old out and sliding in the new". It was the old style where the cartridge itself was brass. He had taken the faceplate off and tried to pull the cartridge but his pliers slipped off causing him to bang his hand against razor sharp tile. He then had his wife take him to the emergency room where he received 15 stiches and a $2100.00 bill! The total bill for the shower cartridge was around $3000.00+/- because he tried to save himself a little money.


Paul


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## Wiser (Jul 25, 2008)

Service Guy & Dunbar - Please don't take my complaining wrong. We give in when we feel it will cost more than the fighting will bring in. I'm not getting into a pi$$ing match over $35.00 if it will save an otherwise good customer. I keep detailed notes and if it happens more than once, the customer is summarily dismissed. Do we confront the customer? No, when they call for service we are too busy for them. They get that point without everyone getting emotional. By nature, I hold a grudge, never forget, and subscribe to the notion that revenge is a dish best served cold. I bide my time and then strike. It's the same in business, rarely do I tip my hand. Pushover - no. I weigh the benefits against the costs & use my head.

Smells - I like your gentle prodding. We do need to raise our prices. If we added just $5. to every ticket last year, we would have over $7,000.00 more than we do now. As it stands, there are two companies more expensive than us (their trucks are sitting). Many more are cheaper than we are. There is a master plumber running around charging $65/hour! Another small start-up company of two guys (great guys) thinking they are doing really good charging $80/hr - after all they do a lot of high end work, another company with a full page ad charging $80/hr, it goes on & on. It's sheer stupidity and craziness.

To all - charging lower prices can be profitable if you are selling all billable hours and you can make it up in volume. It's not the way we want to do it, but if that is what we have to do to make it through - we will. Everyone thought the guy who started Costco was crazy - didn't think he could make it with such small profit margins. Looks like the guy knew a little something and he's doing very well.


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