# Fat apprentice vs Skinny apprentice



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

If you had a choice to hire a new apprentice which one would you want working for you

I have had both types working for me

There is ups and down for both

The big guys can lift more than the skinny guys but the big guys can't get into some tight spots

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

Would depend on how fat and how skinny....


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

eddiecalder said:


> Would depend on how fat and how skinny....


At either end of the scale

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

I would hire a 120lb girl over a 300lb man.:thumbup:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

eddiecalder said:


> I would hire a 120lb girl over a 300lb man.:thumbup:


 
a dwarf? 

she could jump out of a cupcake.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Both have their advantages. I might not be able to fit in a very small space, but I can set a 50 gallon water heater on a platform by myself.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I had a fat helper once, he tried hard no doubt. He just couldn't do it. He sweat like a pig when digging ( poorly) or just about anything, he'd go under a house but performance was bad because just couldn't seem to get right. But this guy was extreme.
My daughter worked circles around him on a sprinkler system install, he quit. lol
fwiw, in fairness this guy was horribly obese and out of shape.

We had 2 brothers that were obese in the concrete biz that were awesome. They'd bend over and tie steel or finish concrete professionally all day.
I am a skinny guy, have been all my life but could work circles around plenty and darn well stay up with any I assure you that.
I think skinney or fat it's a mental thing. You want the job? No excuses allowed. Better be able to stay up. I won't expect a lighter person to lift something a bulky person can but I want attitude and a willingness to get the job done. And "I can't fit" won't cut the mustard very long either.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I find the choice of wording to be offensive, since I would fit into the fat category. :laughing:

How about we say stocky vs. lean? 

This is something I have considered, and as a stocky(fat) guy I think a lean guy would be nice, but, having worked with both I have to say there are differences. 

I say it comes down to work ethic, and performance. Curious to hear some stories of the more experienced employers.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

I had a mixture of empoyee's at one time and what I found was.

The bigger guys could dig better as they had the weight on there there side to get the spade into the soil.

The bigger guys could hang boilers easy with no biotching.

The whipper snapper guys could get into crawl spaces easy.

The whipper snapper guys spent less time on lunch break..

They all biotched the same though about different things and wanted there god given right's to everything and thought they were all worth more pay than what they were getting. Lol.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Epox said:


> I had a fat helper once, he tried hard no doubt. He just couldn't do it. He sweat like a pig when digging ( poorly) or just about anything, he'd go under a house but performance was bad because just couldn't seem to get right. But this guy was extreme.
> My daughter worked circles around him on a sprinkler system install, he quit. lol
> fwiw, in fairness this guy was horribly obese and out of shape.
> 
> ...


Thought pigs don't sweat?


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm not "big boned" but I can hold my own on lifting things and breaking loose some tight gas lines and fit under 7". We had a big fella that worked for us a couple years ago, sure he could pick up a 50 fairly well. Ask him to break a 1" union loose and he couldn't. It all depends in who you get.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

This will be the scene on warm days, for sure. Just need brains, & a good attitude. But IMHO it would be very hard for the extreme obese to do residential type work. Lots of close quarters. Like replacing a shower valve through an access panel in a 1 ft wide closet. Or not dripping sweat through the house. Heck some of these older people got the heat cranked to 78 deg, in winter.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Indie said:


> I find the choice of wording to be offensive, since I would fit into the fat category. :laughing:
> 
> How about we say stocky vs. lean?


Hmmm, definately know what you mean, I have been called skinny all my life, including to date. Always reminded. I always thought it strange a uhm "heavy" person has no thought to calling people like me skinny. But man oh man call him or her fat and it would be considered a major offense.
Q. You sure you can do that you're so skinny, 
A. I sure couldn't if I was fat like you.
Sorry Indie, nothing personal intended towards you personally.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I went from 250. To 198 back to 250 on diff I saw is getting into tight places but hey who actually wants to fit in small places right


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

revenge said:


> I went from 250. To 198 back to 250 on diff I saw is getting into tight places but hey who actually wants to fit in small places right


Depends on what small places... I guess.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm 215 lbs.. what's that make me?


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Epox said:


> Hmmm, definately know what you mean, I have been called skinny all my life, including to date. Always reminded. I always thought it strange a uhm "heavy" person has no thought to calling people like me skinny. But man oh man call him or her fat and it would be considered a major offense.
> Q. You sure you can do that you're so skinny,
> A. I sure couldn't if I was fat like you.
> Sorry Indie, nothing personal intended towards you personally.



Heck I don't take it personal. :laughing:

I've been asked many time "You sure your going to fit in the crawlspace?" When I worked for someone else I politely assured the customer I could in fact fit, and did 100% of the time. Their idea of tight, and my idea were two totally different things. 

Now that I work for myself the theory has changed. If I can't fit, or its that tight I don't want to work in it anyway. 

Just because a guy can fit into a tight space does not mean he should have to. I didn't make you buy that house, or build it on such a tight space. Floors can be taken up. :laughing:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> I'm 215 lbs.. what's that make me?


Ugly :laughing:


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> I'm 215 lbs.. what's that make me?


If you Five Foot nothing , *FAT !:laughing:*


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I was 130 when I started as an apprentice and my j man was 400. We wer a great team his size and power my lack of size and speed We got it done One time I fit in a 8" chase. Another time I fit through a 12x12 access panel !! I am 175 now so I won't fit in like I use too!!! But I'm a smaller guy so I'd want a big apprentice. Like 250 I think that's what you want on bigger guy one smaller guy in one truck and ready for any thing !!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> If you Five Foot nothing , FAT !:laughing:


Cry,cry... I'm only 6' 3"


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Cry,cry... I'm only 6' 3"


I'm 5' 10 " and 210, so I guess I'm the fat one . :yes:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

My response here is similar to the older /younger apprentice. The apprentice must do a few things in order to remain an apprentice and move up the ladder. These things are;
Listen
Learn and take on more responsibility
Ask questions
Do what is asked of them without extra garbage out
Write things down
Remember what they have learned
Speak well
Do not interrupt or decide they know what to say to a customer on my jobs
Shut up and listen when I am speaking to a customer and listening to a customer
Work hard, be there early, and be ready to stay late.

The only size issue I would have is their brain size and what they can take in and register.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

You need a big hammer to knock in a big nail,,,, just sayin


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

mark kiernan said:


> You need a big hammer to knock in a big nail,,,, just sayin


It's not the size of the hammer but how you use it that counts

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I'll take a smaller one, the one that rolls with me can fit into the vent holes on the foundation here. Granted he does take his cigs out first. 

Bad thing is we get sent to the tight ones because he's with me. If I can fit I go to, I hate sending someone where I wouldn't go.

He comes out with dirt on his knees and hands and I look like I got pulled behind a truck a mile or so.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> It's not the size of the hammer but how you use it that counts
> 
> Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


Who told you that ?

I'm sure it was not the opposite sex. Lol...

Next you will tell me that small nails are cute but do the job.

The one thing that's for sure though, most men can fill a stroller.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

mark kiernan said:


> Who told you that ?
> 
> I'm sure it was not the opposite sex. Lol...
> 
> ...



They have an operation to cure that, I highly recommend it to guys with crazy wives or girlfriends.:laughing:

That goes to the stroller issue not the nail issue, never dealt with that one ask some socialist they have the problem:laughing:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Must be tired I'm confused by the last few posts.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> They have an operation to cure that, I highly recommend it to guys with crazy wives or girlfriends.:laughing:
> 
> That goes to the stroller issue not the nail issue, never dealt with that one ask some socialist they have the problem:laughing:


Yeh, I know all about that cure. I'm due to get fixed very soon.

The wife gave me a brochure a few weeks ago and I got exited and asked if she had been looking for a new t.v.... wrong...


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

ICE, lots of ice. And if they ask if you want to see the pieces the cut out say no.


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> ICE, lots of ice. And if they ask if you want to see the pieces the cut out say no.


Oh dear... I ain't to thrilled about the whole thing and its still just a thought with me but the wife insists its a done deal. Wtf.

Thanks for the advice though.


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## ironandfire (Oct 9, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> If you had a choice to hire a new apprentice which one would you want working for you
> 
> I have had both types working for me
> 
> ...


By far, I chose fat apprentice.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

6' 190lb entering the trade after growing up on a well drilling rig I could pretty much move anything and get into any tight spots.....Now a few years later I'm about the same but lets say I'm a little more lean but less muscle.

Legally though wouldn't picking an employee depending on weight be discrimination? :whistling2:

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. My boss will not hire someone overweight, he has never come out and said it but with all the applicants we get I've never seen anyone overweight get hired.

I know everyone is built differently, but eating HEALTHY and with very little exercise you should be able to be the happy medium.


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

And to seriously answer the questions "Skinny or Fat Apprentice?"

My answer is the SMART one. :thumbsup:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I guess I would rather have an old and fat apprentice, I would look so much better standing next to him. :laughing:


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## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

Either provide a lot of comic relief. But seriously, fat often indicates lazy where skinny may be a sign of drug addiction. :blink:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

plumber666 said:


> Either provide a lot of comic relief. But seriously, fat often indicates lazy where skinny may be a sign of drug addiction. :blink:



Your statement must be a April Fools Joke. No way you mean that sincerely. 

Again, we must define what fat and skinny actually mean.


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## ironandfire (Oct 9, 2008)

Citizen Sam and the snap cutter. :icon_smile:


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

ironandfire said:


> Citizen Sam and the snap cutter. :icon_smile:
> 
> 
> Citizen sam - YouTube




wtf is he doing ?

i had a helper that would re-adjust the snap cutters everytime he would go to cut a piece of CI, i had to keep telling him that once the cutters were set for a size of pipe, he no longer had to adjust them LOL


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Bayside500 said:


> wtf is he doing ?
> 
> i had a helper that would re-adjust the snap cutters everytime he would go to cut a piece of CI, i had to keep telling him that once the cutters were set for a size of pipe, he no longer had to adjust them LOL


 Well, he passed for having his crack showed..


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

I would sceam/have screamed when helpers have taken way too long to cut any piece of pipe. We had one recently who got yelled at quite frequently for cutting the wrong size, an inch too short I would get "would this 92" work??" glad he's finally gone.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Indie said:


> I find the choice of wording to be offensive, since I would fit into the fat category. :laughing:
> 
> How about we say stocky vs. lean?
> 
> ...


I know a woman that described her girl friend as sturdy.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

doesnt matter fat skinny short tall you busted your arse you ok in my book and stay the f off the fun


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Had one guy that took 20 mins just to cut a 24 " half inch black pipe on the '300' which the die had already been set up.. just from driveway ( two steps up) to boiler room.


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## SewerRat (Feb 26, 2011)

I won't disclose further than to say that when skinny guys tell me about the really big guy they knew or saw ("he was like 6' and must have been at least 250 lbs, I mean this guy was huge") it makes me chuckle and feel like giving the little bean pole feller a noogie.

But, the other day I hand dug the bulk of a 55' sewer by hand by myself, my helper just cleaned it up to grade. This morning I ran a shovel and digging bar a good share of the morning digging up two septic tanks in rocky soil. I find I get lazy when I have a helper which is a natural response for anyone I think, but I can put it out right along with anybody when I'm alone. Bulky or big boned or fat or obese or stocky or whatever is no excuse.


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

Fat, Skinny. I don't care. I just want a healthy one that is drug free


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

If mine does drugs then I at least want one that has good drugs!!! Jk.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> If mine does drugs then I at least want one that has good drugs!!! Jk.


 You're closer to the border than me...


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> If mine does drugs then I at least want one that has good drugs!!! Jk.


Puff puff give


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Okay...

i weight 180m lbs .... 5ft 8 " tall 

I need to know am I under or over weight


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Okay...
> 
> i weight 180m lbs .... 5ft 8 " tall
> 
> I need to know am I under or over weight


 I thought you're a Canadian?? 180m? M stands for male wieght? What do a 180f weight?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> I thought you're a Canadian?? 180m? M stands for male wieght? What do a 180f weight?


LMAO.... miss print .. no M.. just 180 lbs


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> I thought you're a Canadian?? 180m? M stands for male wieght? What do a 180f weight?


245 in reality


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## ironandfire (Oct 9, 2008)

Bayside500 said:


> wtf is he doing ?
> 
> i had a helper that would re-adjust the snap cutters everytime he would go to cut a piece of CI, i had to keep telling him that once the cutters were set for a size of pipe, he no longer had to adjust them LOL


 I need to record some of the sh1t he sez.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Okay...
> 
> i weight 180m lbs .... 5ft 8 " tall
> 
> I need to know am I under or over weight


Once you hit a growth spurt, you will be just fine.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> I thought you're a Canadian?? 180m? M stands for male wieght? What do a 180f weight?



No, he's Canadian, those are metric pounds, they are divisible by ten. You know, millipounds, kilopounds, etc.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

ChrisConnor said:


> No, he's Canadian, those are metric pounds, they are divisible by ten. You know, millipounds, kilopounds, etc.


 Then, what's the lbs after the 180m?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Then, what's the lbs after the 180m?


Let's not complicate humor, mmmkay.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> I'm 215 lbs.. what's that make me?



shapely.:thumbup:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PinkPlumber said:


> shapely.:thumbup:


 That's a old one!! Its 215 m lbs now...


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

When I was an apprentice, I was appreciated because I can climb like a monkey, and move quick....However, like a previous poster said.....I would describe myself as "sturdy"....I am not tiny, though I am not large either....I keep enough weight to be useful for pushing/pulling.....
I am 5 feet tall and built more like a brick.
My father once said (when I was a youngster) that I was built like a brick sh*thouse.....I can run, lift crazy amounts of weight and climb like a monkey without thinking about it....but as I age, it becomes more important to use my brain more and spare the old body.:thumbup:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

PinkPlumber said:


> I can run, lift crazy amounts of weight and climb like a monkey without thinking about it....but as I age, it becomes more important to use my brain more and spare the old body.:thumbup:


A conversation I've been having with myself a good bit lately. Although at 54 my body's been telling me NO more and more.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Epox said:


> A conversation I've been having with myself a good bit lately. Although at 54 my body's been telling me NO more and more.



I've had regular aches and pains for some time and thought that it was just something that people who do this kind of work had to deal with so I had just accepted it.

A few nights ago, I went barefooted when I walked the dog and had to change the way that I walk because I am normally heel-heavy like most shod people. Later that night I started running barefoot in a grassy field and when I got home, I had zero aches. I read that when running barefoot, you have to change your stride and the way that you land and I tell you, it's relieved some soreness that I thought that I'd just have to live with and I have regained some flexibility that I've not had in a decade and it's only been three days. I looked online and found some pretty compelling evidence about running barefoot and overall health and it looks like this is going to be a good thing for me.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I'm not having soreness, but find my stamina isn't what it used to be. MY right arm a few years ago went really weak in the bicep area. Over exerted it I'm thinking but couldn't lift a fly hardly. No pain just weak as if I just finished working out really hard. Now a few weaks ago my tricep , same arm (right) is doing same thing. So weak I can only curl or pull. Thinking I need to hit the gym and do some protien and diet improvements.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Epox said:


> I'm not having soreness, but find my stamina isn't what it used to be. MY right arm a few years ago went really weak in the bicep area. Over exerted it I'm thinking but couldn't lift a fly hardly. No pain just weak as if I just finished working out really hard. Now a few weaks ago my tricep , same arm (right) is doing same thing. So weak I can only curl or pull. Thinking I need to hit the gym and do some protien and diet improvements.


 I'm feeling it as well. I credit it to being used too much when I was new. I have decided with new ink, that I will get healthier. Gym M,W,F. Friday will be the one day that I hit Happy Hour. I'll see how it goes.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I can lift a skinny apprentice holding a backing wrench off the ground with one hand on my wrench.... :laughing:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Good luck to you LE.


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## east-indy (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm a high strung tall skinny guy.:yes:

Although I can fit in most crawl spaces, I know I can't use a pony threader for black pipe larger than 1 1/2" . :no:

When I was an apprentice, my Jman set me up with a pony threader on a chain vice. We were building a gas system for a large commercial kitchen. I set my first piece of pipe up (2"), Methodically set everything up (cardboard... check, chain vice... check, oiler... check....) No sooner that I pulled the trigger on the threader, I almost ended up on the other side of the pipe. I was too scared to let go!!! :laughing:


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## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

Epox said:


> I'm not having soreness, but find my stamina isn't what it used to be. MY right arm a few years ago went really weak in the bicep area. Over exerted it I'm thinking but couldn't lift a fly hardly. No pain just weak as if I just finished working out really hard. Now a few weaks ago my tricep , same arm (right) is doing same thing. So weak I can only curl or pull. Thinking I need to hit the gym and do some protien and diet improvements.


not saying this is your problem but: maybe see a chiropractor? 

mine told me that if your back is out of place your body will not allow you to endanger your spine and so keeps that part of your body weak.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

ChrisConnor said:


> I've had regular aches and pains for some time and thought that it was just something that people who do this kind of work had to deal with so I had just accepted it.
> 
> A few nights ago, I went barefooted when I walked the dog and had to change the way that I walk because I am normally heel-heavy like most shod people. Later that night I started running barefoot in a grassy field and when I got home, I had zero aches. I read that when running barefoot, you have to change your stride and the way that you land and I tell you, it's relieved some soreness that I thought that I'd just have to live with and I have regained some flexibility that I've not had in a decade and it's only been three days. I looked online and found some pretty compelling evidence about running barefoot and overall health and it looks like this is going to be a good thing for me.


Interesting. Might have to give it a try. I cant even run any more because lower back will just start killing me and im only 39.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

east-indy said:


> I'm a high strung tall skinny guy.:yes:
> 
> Although I can fit in most crawl spaces, I know I can't use a pony threader for black pipe larger than 1 1/2" . :no:
> 
> When I was an apprentice, my Jman set me up with a pony threader on a chain vice. We were building a gas system for a large commercial kitchen. I set my first piece of pipe up (2"), Methodically set everything up (cardboard... check, chain vice... check, oiler... check....) No sooner that I pulled the trigger on the threader, I almost ended up on the other side of the pipe. I was too scared to let go!!! :laughing:


 
:laughing: 
:laughing: 
:laughing:

I think we've all at one time or another been close to being gift-wrapped by ye olde pony...

That's why it comes with that bar...

If I'm threading anything bigger than 1" pipe, I'm using a pipe wrench...


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Are we talking an electric hand vice or a vice that just spins the pipe? We have a carriage for ours that the cutter, reamer and die sit in, easy peasy.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> Are we talking an electric hand vice or a vice that just spins the pipe? We have a carriage for ours that the cutter, reamer and die sit in, easy peasy.


You're talking like a 300 or a 535?

We're talking like a 700...


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

east-indy said:


> I'm a high strung tall skinny guy.:yes:
> 
> Although I can fit in most crawl spaces, I know I can't use a pony threader for black pipe larger than 1 1/2" . :no:
> 
> When I was an apprentice, my Jman set me up with a pony threader on a chain vice. We were building a gas system for a large commercial kitchen. I set my first piece of pipe up (2"), Methodically set everything up (cardboard... check, chain vice... check, oiler... check....) No sooner that I pulled the trigger on the threader, I almost ended up on the other side of the pipe. I was too scared to let go!!! :laughing:


I like the way you lay out this story too... Identical thought process...

I just reread it and can't stop laughing.

Been there, done that!


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

U666A said:


> You're talking like a 300 or a 535?
> 
> We're talking like a 700...


300 and 600. If that 700 doesn't come with the clamp that holds the pipe in place then I want no part of that thing.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

504Plumber said:


> 300 and 600. If that 700 doesn't come with the clamp that holds the pipe in place then I want no part of that thing.



There's a clamp? lol


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I can manhandle a portapony with the best of them. BUT being resourceful, lazy, efficient or whatever you prefer to call me I have found that a piece of rope tied to the tristand leg and the handle of the portapony takes all the work out of it for me. Be careful it will break a decent sized rope with initial torque up!


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

ChrisConnor said:


> There's a clamp? lol


I'll take a pic when I get to the shop, it clamps on the pipe and has a rod that goes through the hole by the die. Dont need a tripod with that little clamp.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Rems amigo comes with a clamp. No clamp over 1", no dice.


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## MPR Man (Jun 26, 2012)

I agree that both types can be effective. Short and fat..no good. Short and skinny usually no good either.

I am a weightlifter and have weighed up to 300lbs :thumbup: and it was to heavy. Even though I am very flexible naturally at that weight I was far to inefficient. Stamina was bad, movement was bad and walking on roof battens was flat out scary!

I am down to 280 now and feel alot better. However I was at my working peak at 235. I could just run all day and not get tired. Oh I am 6' 3" BTW.

The guys that I have had that stand out were all around the 190 - 220 mark and between 5'10" - 6' . And as I have said if they have a sporting background their muscles are in sync with their minds and they are less likely to hurt themselves at any weight.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

I'd go with the apprentice that was more intelligent and mechanically inclined.


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