# Reasonable Estimates Needed



## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

We believe we were significantly overcharged. Wondering if anyone could ballpark an estimate based on the following information and photos - please suggest "reasonable amount" and double it. This is in California. Work took 3 days to














begin after initial call so not exactly urgent, but maybe 4-5 hours of actual work. Thanks for any input.

Question: How much would you charge for repair of a baseboard nail hole on the blue tape, 1 1/2+ inches above grade slab? Noted, close to other black plastic pipe if that matters. Please give me "reasonable" estimate, and double it! I'll post the rest of the story this weekend , just need to determine reasonable cost.
Thanks!


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

CA. Plumbing Contractor $3000.00 Dollars


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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> CA. Plumbing Contractor $3000.00 Dollars


👍 Thanks, did you double?


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Why do you want the amount doubled?


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## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

You need to call the plumber that did the work and work it out with him.

Ask yourself: how much is having water and sewer worth?

Did you sign a contract with the plumber?


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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

Logtec said:


> Why do you want the amount doubled?


Good question, just trying to determine a fair amount to repay. Double is probably going to be half of actual charge, so trying to resolve and seeking professional judgement on work. Just looking for something remotely fair


jakewilcox said:


> You need to call the plumber that did the work and work it out with him.
> 
> Ask yourself: how much is having water and sewer worth?
> 
> Did you sign a contract with the plumber?


Why do you want the amount doubled?
[/QUOTE]
Good question, just trying to determine a fair amount to repay. Double is probably going to be half of actual charge, so trying to resolve and seeking professional judgement on work. Just looking for something remotely fair


Logtec said:


> Why do you want the amount doubled?


.


jakewilcox said:


> You need to call the plumber that did the work and work it out with him.
> 
> Ask yourself: how much is having water and sewer worth?
> 
> Did you sign a contract with the plumber?


They bid as underground leak and corrosion as the cause knowing it was a baseboard nail. Just looking for reasonable estimate doubled to determine something fair. Their corporate offices say they can't help and the franchise has doubled down on falsified invoices while threatening collections and mechanics lien. Both of which may be triggered soon. Just looking for estimates based on pictures shown, there is no other mystery to the project.


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## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

You should have signed a work authorization or some thing with pricing on it. Did you sign that?

You clearly have the trouble reading fine print and following rules.


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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

jakewilcox said:


> You should have signed a work authorization or some thing with pricing on it. Did you sign that?
> 
> You clearly have the trouble reading fine print and following rules.


LOL - I'll share that in full this weekend. No, fine print wasn't available. Just looking for your stupid high bid for such work. Thanks


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

“Double is probably going to be half of actual charge” 

Wow, i ain’t never done learned math…
But it t looks like a nail hole in a copper pipe, I’d charge you about $35 to fix it. Whatever that is Doubled I don’t know. 

What’s with all the biding, corp office and franchise BS? it would take about 5 mins to fix this with “copper pipe- pin hole glue” you’re wasting all this time online when a quick trip to you local big box store is all you need to do.

If you want to waste some more of your time, go after the guy who installed the baseboards and plumber who didn’t use plates to protect the pipes, then Get them together and have the argue about who’s fault is it.


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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

Logtec said:


> “Double is probably going to be half of actual charge”
> 
> Wow, i ain’t never done learned math…
> But it t looks like a nail hole in a copper pipe, I’d charge you about $35 to fix it. Whatever that is Doubled I don’t know.
> ...


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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

👍 Thanks. Appreciate your time, input. We're being charged thousands, doubled, for the repair. So finding reasonable multi thousand dollar number that isn't grossly excessive is our goal. Thanks for input.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)




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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

Still seeking input from others on double the fair price for the repair. They are demanding $7,800, more than $1,000 per hour. The pictures say it all. Will share the rest of the story this weekend, but input on double fair price still needed. Thanks


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

Doesn't the People's Republic have all sorts of consumer protection laws you could leverage?

If you want to fix it yourself, cut open that manifold and pour 37 drams of hydraulic cement into each copper line. Left it seek the pinholes for around 5 hrs, then reconnect the copper and turn the water back on. Easy peasy.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Usually I propose replacing the entire house for $1,000,000, which usually can be done for less than $1,000,000. Usually I make good money and the customer knows 100% the problem is gone. Win/ win. But now with Biden's inflation....................


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## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

NeedAdvice1 said:


> LOL - I'll share that in full this weekend. No, fine print wasn't available. Just looking for your stupid high bid for such work. Thanks


So, is this like a Paul Harvey thing? We get to know the rest of the story this weekend? Oh god, I can’t wait for this!

Ever notice how when you call someone’s work product “stupid,” you get exactly what you want…. For free.

Pure genius; this one.


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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

jakewilcox said:


> So, is this like a Paul Harvey thing? We get to know the rest of the story this weekend? Oh god, I can’t wait for this!
> 
> Ever notice how when you call someone’s work product “stupid,” you get exactly what you want…. For free.
> 
> Pure genius; this one.


Sorry if it came across that way, certainly not the intent. Was simply conveying that I'm looking for what professionals would view as an extremely high estimate for such work. (ie. stupid high bid)


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

NeedAdvice1 said:


> Sorry if it came across that way, certainly not the intent. Was simply conveying that I'm looking for what professionals would view as an extremely high estimate for such work. (ie. stupid high bid)


all joking aside that quote sounds good to me.


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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

Plumber Sexauer said:


> what repair was done? spot repair? any demo below grade? if it was simply a spot repair (cut out hole plus some extra pipe) then 7800 is astronomical. I also work for a franchise plumbing company. if they did more, like rebuild the entire manifold then it might not be so ridiculous. also, did they solder or press the copper pipe? that a significant cost difference. i think you may have left out some critical information to receive a proper response. also it will depend where in California you are located. In Orange County you can expect to pay anywhere from $600-$1500 for a spot repair. for a full manifold rebuild you could expect a price of $1200-$2700. and believe it or not, in California the age of your home can cause the price to be higher. may require asbestos testing or abatement or the use of a "safe-cut" method.


Very helpful. So yes, the repair was done and he did go below grade, dug out ~1.5 cu ft. The nail hole was just a bit over 1.5 inches above grade (was digging even necessary) and he replaced the right section with the two drops using coldpress. The home is 22 yrs old, w/ water softener in Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento County).

Here's the detail, we're trying to determine what is reasonable for this work.

On a Saturday a few weeks back we heard a leak, turned the water off and called xxxxx. The young man came out to look at it and said he needed to go to Home Depot for supplies. When he got back, he said he'd need to come back Sunday with his project manager. So we were good for Saturday night with the water off and assumed it would be fixed on Sunday. Sunday morning, he called to apologize and say that his project manager wasn't working that day and promised that they would make us the first job of the day for the crew Monday at 8 am. He repeated that he was sorry for the inconvenience, knew we were leaving town in a couple days and that the after hours fee from last night would be waived and he would make sure we get a discount since we had to wait. Monday, no show, no water, wife called and they told her that she should have never been told that someone would be there at 8 because they don't do appointments. The person said that someone would be there by 1 pm. He came out around just before noon, and we assumed they would start the work first thing, nope, he said he needed the project manager and left. So they came back that afternoon when I was at the dentist office and then I had to help a friend so I got home after 5pm. So they get my wife to sign an estimate for $7,800. Now mind you, it's now Monday night, we've been without water for three days, we're leaving on vacation for a week Wednesday morning and are hoping for water to wash before we go. I'm livid when I get home, I'm thinking, how on earth can it possibly cost $7,800, and why is it still not fixed? Okay I guess, trusted xxxxxx, maybe it makes sense? They've been talking to our insurance adjuster, they told her it was caused by corrosion and they told my wife they may need to trench clear across the closet to our shower..well maybe??? I was still so livid, it didn't sound right, but if pipes are corroded and failing, trenching needs to be done, work order was for "Underground Water Leak"...so maybe?...NO. My wife was in tears saying, I just want water and we're leaving for Michigan in a day. It was 6 pm on Monday and I'm ready to pull the plug on everything, and she told me, they are already coming at 8 am tomorrow, and she said just let them do the work tomorrow, we need them to do a good job. 

So really, not caused by corrosion and not an underground water leak. Seems they oversold this job complexity and endlessly squeezed us until they were the only option -- we were leaving town for a week and needed irrigation. One plumber job in maybe 4 hours and we had water a little after noon on Tuesday. Just seeking professional judgement on reasonable range for such a job.

Thanks again for the information everyone - hope you enjoyed the humor of this saga!  Appreciate all of the trades and challenges now. Thanks for the input.

PS - Worth noting, I had a contractor in there last week. He looked at the unfinished concrete and asked if a plumber did that. I laughed and said, you don't know half the story. I said, see that pipe right there, give me a quote to replace it and double it. He laughed, I guess $1,800-$2,000 then laughing. I said, how about $7,800? Then I went on to tell him how when after xxxxxx left, I'm hearing water running again...! Oh no, what's going on? Well, turns out the xxxxxx plumber left shavings in the pipes when he did the work so I turn the toilet off. After vacation I figure out I had a 1cm sized copper shaving (pictured), sitting right on top of the toilet intake valve making it leak. Very, very frustrating experience.








This is the finished job. Plumber had left.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Logtec said:


> View attachment 132925


Stan and Steve the fabulous ones,or their new name is the ambigiously gay duo


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

NeedAdvice1 said:


> View attachment 132923
> 
> 
> We believe we were significantly overcharged. Wondering if anyone could ballpark an estimate based on the following information and photos - please suggest "reasonable amount" and double it. This is in California. Work took 3 days to
> ...


Dude just stop your whining and pay the plumber,stop holding his money cause you think it cost to much,you are dang lucky to get anyone out to fix it in the first place,pay the man and stop being a republican


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

NeedAdvice1 said:


> Very helpful. So yes, the repair was done and he did go below grade, dug out ~1.5 cu ft. The nail hole was just a bit over 1.5 inches above grade (was digging even necessary) and he replaced the right section with the two drops using coldpress. The home is 22 yrs old, w/ water softener in Elk Grove, CA (Sacramento County).
> 
> Here's the detail, we're trying to determine what is reasonable for this work.
> 
> ...


It happens to the best of us,give plumber a big tip for saving the scrape copper for you


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

They could have used a gear clamp and a piece of rubber to patch the leak, so you’d have water until they “fixed” it.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

NeedAdvice1 said:


> View attachment 132923
> 
> 
> We believe we were significantly overcharged. Wondering if anyone could ballpark an estimate based on the following information and photos - please suggest "reasonable amount" and double it. This is in California. Work took 3 days to
> ...


$25,975.19. Plus hotel and three square a day. I’m booked until Thursday, and I book up quick. If you’re interested you better let me know soon.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> $25,975.19. Plus hotel and three square a day. I’m booked until Thursday, and I book up quick. If you’re interested you better let me know soon.


Never mind- I’ll do it for $19,999.38 CDN plus hotel, 2 meals a day for me an my apprentice and gas money from Toronto. 
Also I want to any/all tourist attractions paid for along the way, inc Niagara Falls stuff


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Ha I'll do it for free, just come pick me up and get me a big mac when I'm done.

When I started out a woman was thinking I was going out for a free consultation and free estimate and was quite obnoxious so this is what I said, "come pick me up and get me a big mac when I'm done". She was furious she wasn't going to buy me lunch. All I wanted was not to pay gas and as a recompense an inexpensive meal... I was chuckling when she hung up. People are so cheap.


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## Blue2 (12 mo ago)

$7800 for slab access can be reasonable. Now if it is just a pin hole, I would say you let yourself get got.


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## DDDave (Aug 6, 2014)

Wow.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Logtec said:


> They could have used a gear clamp and a piece of rubber to patch the leak, so you’d have water until they “fixed” it.


Companies like he’s describing won’t use the gear clamp trick because if they get them temporary water they’ll have time to think about it and will get a second opinion. They gotta spike the job and leave them without water so options are limited.


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

Stories like this are why we as contractors should be as specific as possible about the scope of what we intend to do, and why homeowners need to ask questions up front, like "what exactly will be replaced"

Sounds like you've been had.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

hewhodigsholes said:


> Stories like this are why we as contractors should be as specific as possible about the scope of what we intend to do, and why *homeowners need to ask questions up front, like "what exactly will be replaced"*
> 
> Sounds like you've been had.


Last week I had to snake a waste line, 4" cast iron under a slab I explained to the homeowner that the line is really rusted/in rough shape and that's why I've had to snake it several times the past couple years. It's ~30' long, I showed them where it goes into the slab, where it runs under the floor, and marked where it exits the foundation. I told them we don't do concrete and gave them one name, told them they'll be lucky to get anyone right now.

By the end of the day they had already called the shop because they couldn't explain to their spouse. I find that if they don't ask questions, it's often not worth explaining it to them because they either can't understand or they just don't care to remember. Usually it's the middle aged housewives and very old men who ask lots of questions and break out the pen and paper. Most other demographics couldn't care less or as dumb as a rock.


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## NeedAdvice1 (7 mo ago)

hewhodigsholes said:


> Stories like this are why we as contractors should be as specific as possible about the scope of what we intend to do, and why homeowne
> 
> 
> Debo22 said:
> ...


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Debo22 said:


> Companies like he’s describing won’t use the gear clamp trick because if they get them temporary water they’ll have time to think about it and will get a second opinion. They gotta spike the job and leave them without water so options are limited.


Also the longer a customer goes without water the less likely they are to gripe about the bill lolololol


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## Fred Bagadonutz (Nov 27, 2011)

Great thread. Make sure you double my upvotes.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Fred Bagadonutz said:


> Great thread. Make sure you double my upvotes.


WOW 34 POSTS IN 11 YEARS !


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> WOW 34 POSTS IN 11 YEARS !


He’s a busy man!


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

MACPLUMB777 said:


> WOW 34 POSTS IN 11 YEARS !


SMOKING


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I am a licensed plumber in Florida. I shoot square with people and as a God-fearing gentleman, I won't treat people the way that you got treated.

A reasonable estimate for that work is around $1000. I do not blame you sir for being more that upset with that plumbing company. It's really a shame because they did indeed take advantage of your situation. I'm hopeful that you can re-negotiate that unreasonable and outrageous price of $7800. That is for sure price-gouging at its worst. My advice to you is to contact the BBB {Better Business Bureau} in hopes of settling this. No company wants any negative press on the internet or social media.

What that company did was at a minimum un-ethical and immoral. 
It can be argued that your poor wife was coerced into signing. 

I hope that you find a peaceful and quick resolution to this.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

101344 said:


> what repair was done? spot repair? any demo below grade? if it was simply a spot repair (cut out hole plus some extra pipe) then 7800 is astronomical. I also work for a franchise plumbing company. if they did more, like rebuild the entire manifold then it might not be so ridiculous. also, did they solder or press the copper pipe? that a significant cost difference. i think you may have left out some critical information to receive a proper response. also it will depend where in California you are located. In Orange County you can expect to pay anywhere from $600-$1500 for a spot repair. for a full manifold rebuild you could expect a price of $1200-$2700. and believe it or not, in California the age of your home can cause the price to be higher. may require asbestos testing or abatement or the use of a "safe-cut" method.











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