# Waste energy



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Every day people are wasting energy not realizing they can recover it.

One method is to recover waste energy from your AC by recovering the heat from the condenser and transferring it swimming pool water or HWT

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Every day people are wasting energy not realizing they can recover it.
> 
> One method is to recover waste energy from your AC by recovering the heat from the condenser and transferring it swimming pool water or HWT
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


 
OK OS after reading the post on the desuperheater on the other thread I am curious if I could make this work on my home? I googled it and I can't even figure out where you would get a desuperheater? Will it work with most ac units (mine is a 3 ton carrier heat pump/ac). Also my heater is 80' from my ac unit is that a problem? How expensive is the desuperheater?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

A desuper heater is a 3/8 soft copper line inside of a 3/4 copper line. More or less a heat exchanger . Refrigerant flow through 3/8 line and water in outer 3/4 line

It is usually rolled in a coil.... The desuper heater gets installed on the high pressure side of the compressor. This is were the majority of the heat is prior going to the condenser coil

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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Are they made or purchased? It sounds easy enough to make how long does it need to be to transfer the heat efficiently? Standard recirc pump on the heater move enough water?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> Are they made or purchased? It sounds easy enough to make how long does it need to be to transfer the heat efficiently? Standard recirc pump on the heater move enough water?


They can be made for a lot cheaper than what you can buy them for... the more coil you have or the larger the heat exchanger the more effective it is..

You can interlock your circ pump with the AC unit so that both work at the same time...


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> They can be made for a lot cheaper than what you can buy them for... the more coil you have or the larger the heat exchanger the more effective it is..
> 
> You can interlock your circ pump with the AC unit so that both work at the same time...


are we talking a 50' coil or is 10' sufficient, do I need atleast 100'? Gimme a ballpark


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> are we talking a 50' coil or is 10' sufficient, do I need atleast 100'? Gimme a ballpark


15 ft coil should be sufficient


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/9487


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

hroark2112 said:


> http://www.comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/9487


yes just like that...... I would say the coil is small inside that unit... plus they are separate... just two pipes side by side..

A better heat exchanger would be one inside the other

Also it would be better to have the desuperheater just after the compressor


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

When I was in Orlando I ran into those a lot. Learned the hard way that if you were re-piping a house, you pulled the fuse on the pump inside the ECU. I had customers who shut their water heaters off from about April to September because of the ECU.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

If it is done right you can recover almost the full btu of the AC unit....

If a 3 ton unit is 36,000 btu of cooling then by all rights that is the same amount of heat that it is trying to get rid of on the other end 

Therefore you should be able to recover the 36,000 btu of heat for the HWT

1 ton is 12,000 btu

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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> If it is done right you can recover almost the full btu of the AC unit....
> 
> If a 3 ton unit is 36,000 btu of cooling then by all rights that is the same amount of heat that it is trying to get rid of on the other end
> 
> ...


 
Now I just need a really large storage tank to store all those btu's up for the winter


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

deerslayer said:


> Now I just need a really large storage tank to store all those btu's up for the winter


Don't laugh but there is places that actually store hot water in under ground containers for use in at a later date

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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

Sarah Short said:


> Hey,
> In am new here. I like this discuss.


Look up dude.....Intro!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> A desuper heater is a 3/8 soft copper line inside of a 3/4 copper line. More or less a heat exchanger . Refrigerant flow through 3/8 line and water in outer 3/4 line
> 
> It is usually rolled in a coil.... The desuper heater gets installed on the high pressure side of the compressor. This is were the majority of the heat is prior going to the condenser coil
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


What happens when two pieces of copper touch for an extended period of time while vibrating?

LEAKS.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> What happens when two pieces of copper touch for an extended period of time while vibrating?
> 
> LEAKS.


What would that have to do with a desuper heater

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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> What would that have to do with a desuper heater
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


Sorry my bad. I totally missed the ball on that. 

They were selling an up fit for electric heaters with a small heat pump. They ran lines down through the waterways of the heater....had it on the brain. These are two totally different things.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)




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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)




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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

What about using a braze plate heat exchanger for the heat transfer?


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## NewisCool (Apr 6, 2013)

Our local power company uses the excess heat created while generating power (Several Diesel generators) and pipes it underground to several of our larger buildings and sell it off as a cheaper form of heat. Glycolaholic. Often times the local boilers don't even need to kick in.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

NewisCool said:


> Our local power company uses the excess heat created while generating power (Several Diesel generators) and pipes it underground to several of our larger buildings and sell it off as a cheaper form of heat. Glycolaholic. Often times the local boilers don't even need to kick in.


 I can see some of our more southerly neighbors wondering why the glycol?:laughing:. I'd never really looked up Rankin Inlet on a map until today, you guys must get all your supplies by sea. My Mom grew up in Churchill, and I thought that was way up there!


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

CaberTosser said:


> I can see some of our more southerly neighbors wondering why the glycol?:laughing:. I'd never really looked up Rankin Inlet on a map until today, you guys must get all your supplies by sea. My Mom grew up in Churchill, and I thought that was way up there!


Do you guys use methanol for anti-freeze?


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> Do you guys use methanol for anti-freeze?


 Typically we use propylene glycol in 50/50 proportion to water, plus any system corrosion preventive treatments such as moly, etc. We do have one client building that uses methanol however, but that is in a solar panel arrangement. Antifreeze is not typically used in most buildings without a specific reason though, I typically encounter it in parkades where the ramp to the various upper levels is heated as a de-icing measure. Its much preferable to use something that's not highly flammable simply for handling considerations. Some of our tower condo clients do use it though, it may even be required by their insurer. It sure made for a large glycol bill when an air vent in the parkade let loose one night! This being in a 26 story tower with a 3 level underground parkade, the system pressure due to the high head was 150 psi and some dill-hole had put in Maid-O-Mist air vents rated for 50. Thankfully the system didn't dilute due to the fact it didn't have a make-up water connection, but instead had a tank & pump arrangement to keep the water/glycol in proper proportion. It still took about 12-50 gallon drums to get it restored, $$$$.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Yes methanol is cheaper and just as effective on freeze protection. I don't think it is flammable after mixing but it is in straight form. The main thing around here that has glycol is ant thing exposed to outside temp as in chill water on the roof of buildings. I have one hospital that run its cooling on the roof to save room above the ceiling for ductwork and other piping systems. The only time I have seen glycol used when freezing was not a issue was a York chiller and they wanted a 30% glycol mix for efficiency .


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