# Fergusons



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Lost a small repipe yesterday -- A two bath rambler with a clean crawler and plenty of head room, we could have banged it out in 2 days.

We take on these small jobs because they're always good for a referral down the road.

The HO's were firm in their decision to buy all Kohler fixtures and since Fergusons has the only Kohler Showroom in W. Washington, I sent them down to the Showroom to pick out their fixtures -- They were talked into buying the fixture themselves; There goes my mark up.

Somehow they ended up at the Express Counter where the counter help talked them into buying a Milwaukee PEX Expander and Milwaukee PVC shear and into doing the job themselves. They even assured the HO's they would find a buyer for the tools after they were done using them.

What the hell kind of **** is that?

Aside from taking work away from me, and they knew I sent these folks down there, they sold them Uponor tubing and fittings -- A product they aren't suppose to sell to non-accredited installers.

I've been debating calling up the Express Counter manager and the Showroom Manager and giving them an earful, but that wouldn't really accomplish anything.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

That's some bulls*it! Why in the crap would a supply house do that?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Do it anyway.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

I would definately call.......No I would go in there personally and make a scene. :furious: That's plain wrong


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Go in there & tell them you're closing your account, & that you will make it your mission in life to bad mouth Ferguson until the end of time.
That kind of **** pisses me off, that's why I closed my acct. yrs ago.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

They need to be told. That is total BS. Hopefully you can afford to take money from them, makes for great leverage. I bet someone loses a job over it.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Just saw that one of my expletives was censored. Kind of funny that a medium most plumbers work near is not allowed.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

smoldrn said:


> Just saw that one of my expletives was censored. Kind of funny that a medium most plumbers work near is not allowed.


This is a high class place, act respectable :laughing:


but kcuf ferggies


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## plumber p (Sep 19, 2010)

I agree with all.....close the account and take your business to another supplier. Tell all your bud's and pass the word to all in what they did.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

smoldrn said:


> Just saw that one of my expletives was censored. Kind of funny that a medium most plumbers work near is not allowed.


This forum is viewable to the public. It would not be very professional to allow that language to be seen. Hence the substituted words. Lol


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

WOW! I can't imagine that ever happening at the Ferguson here. There is a supplier here that caters to DIY'ers, but it's not Ferguson.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Pipe Rat said:


> I would go in there personally and make a scene. :furious: That's plain wrong


I'd show up nice and early in the AM sit outside have coffee in the truck and stew about it... :yes:

Then about the time the counter is full of plumbers getting their parts for the days jobs, it's time to go in for that loud discussion.... :thumbup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

That, among other reason is why fergusons is the last supplier I will call when I need something. I use other ones first(who don't sell to the public) and only buy from fergi when I have no other option.

When people ask me where to find X item, I tell them I only buy from wholesalers who don't sell to the public so I don't know where to send them.

Why in the world do contractors support supply houses that are helping cut their throats? These same people then come log onto the PZ and complain about how they lost a sale to big box stores or suppliers that sell to anyone.

You have no right to complain when you send money to those who are selling you down the river. 

Seriously guys, *STOP *and think about the bigger picture. The corporate CEO that have taken over our industry sure are.......



Pipe Rat said:


> I would definately call.......No I would go in there personally and make a scene. :furious: That's plain wrong


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Redwood said:


> I'd show up nice and early in the AM sit outside have coffee in the truck and stew about it... :yes:
> 
> Then about the time the counter is full of plumbers getting their parts for the days jobs, it's time to go in for that loud discussion.... :thumbup:


That is exactly how I would react, I was thinking the same thing.

What a load of crap that is!


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

i have gone to the will call counter at ferggies and had to wait while some DIY'er is trying to explain what they need, and the counter people waste my time trying to explain to them how to fix their problem, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Bayside500 said:


> i have gone to the will call counter at ferggies and had to wait while some DIY'er is trying to explain what they need, and the counter people waste my time trying to explain to them how to fix their problem, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !


 



Had a similar experience with Ferguson. Some HO is at counter with a flapper in his hand. He and the counter guy are trying to figure out what toilet this HO has...:furious: while tradesmen who spend money at Ferguson's are waiting in line for help. I DO NOT shop ar Ferguson's for that and other reasons. Even though I am friends with the counter manager. I don't care if my mother owned Ferguson's, I am running a business, not a charity. 

Also their prices are much higher than another supplier. Plus, they are out-of-stock on alot of common items. They are not a supply house, they are an order house. They wait for us plumbers to place an order with them, then half of the time, they'll then order the item, cuz they don't have it.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*This comes down to one thing...*

Who has more money in their pockets. And who entertains the sale.


You'll start making money when you unglue from the fact that supply houses are in it to win it, just like you are. 

#winning

I still go to fergusons but I don't spend much, maybe a couple hundred a year. I go when I'm in a pinch for parts. 


Just man up and end your work relationship, don't even tell them. Passive aggressive always wins the race.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

We use Niagara plumbing supply (emco). They have a clearly visible sign that says "account customers will always be given preference over those paying cash" but they seldom abide by it. I too gave stood in line behind a diy'er asking a mittful of asinine questions.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

It is important to realize the customers today are pretty much able to buy the stuff we used to sell anywhere whether it is a local supply house, big box store, or, on the net...

This is not going to ever change back to the good old days.

People have been exposed to the "Do It Yourself" dating back to 1978 with the first Home Depot opening and This Old House first airing in 1979. The cat was let out of the bag a long time ago. To cope with this you have to realize that change is necessary to survive and both supply houses and us have or, will have to make changes. If we don't it's over we are dinosaurs. The supply houses have changed by selling their merchandise to the public, if they didn't extinction would result. Very few supply houses can be found that are trade only and they probably aren't going to continue to make it. It has been 33 years since this shift started happening, where I work we changed years ago to compensate, If you haven't made changes yet you are still relying on the dinosaur brain....:whistling2:

What we need to realize is that a portion of our customers are now do it yourselfers and really will never use our services again unless they come into something that they are unable to handle themselves or, is not economically feasible for them to handle themselves. To gain work from them we have to remain as friendly as possible to their efforts yet firm in our protecting ourselves from liabilities associated with their work gone wrong.

Another portion of our customers are going to go ahead and buy the fixtures themselves then want us to install them. The party is over the fat lady has sung... We need to evolve to where we no longer count on profits from parts mark up to subsidize the cost of doing the installation but instead charge for the installation. Tell you the truth I don't mind being out of the loop when the customer buys what they want without me playing middle man on their tastes. I also don't mind the fact that they assume the warranty for the crap fixtures being sold today although I do try to assist them with things like are you really sure that you want me to install that crap Glacier Bay Shower Mixer inside your wall... :laughing: It is what it is and the sooner we realize that the parts profit is over and charge for the labor what it is really worth the better off we all will be.

Finally we will have a small number of customers that continue to want the full service that we have provided in the past. With these customers we charge the same installation labor but use the parts markup to cover the showing of catalogs, ordering and picking up the fixtures, and warrantee exposure.

Those are the changes that we need to make to survive in this changing trade.

As far as supply houses selling to the public they are doing what they have to do to survive and hopefully thrive. I don't want to see the day when my only choice is buying at a big box store. :no: If someone not in the trade wants to walk in and buy a PEX expander so be it..

But... The day I send one of my customers down to their showroom to buy fixtures and they turn it into a "You Can Do It We Can Help" the party is over with me and that supply house.... :furious::furious: Watch for the Cat Fight and the Lesbian Divorce to follow... :laughing:

In Fergie's defense did they actually push your customer into "You Can Do It We can Help" or, did the customer start wondering and inquire about it on their own. The showrooms I have dealt with would respond with, "Well you could but it would cost you more to buy the tools and supplies, and the work isn't all that easy to get it done right." They definitely wouldn't have the red carpet rolled out to DIYer Heaven....


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I would find out the email addresses of all the employees and sign them up to gay perno and Islamic fundamentalist sites. Then I'd buy a full page add in the local newspaper saying that they have Satanic rituals in the parking lot on the eves of each solstice. After that, I'd fire bomb the building.








Paul


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Redwood said:


> It is important to realize the customers today are pretty much able to buy the stuff we used to sell anywhere whether it is a local supply house, big box store, or, on the net... <SNIP>
> 
> *Well Done Sermon ... REDWOOD *
> 
> *Thank You*


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

rocksteady said:


> I would find out the email addresses of all the employees and sign them up to gay perno and Islamic fundamentalist sites. Then I'd buy a full page add in the local newspaper saying that they have Satanic rituals in the parking lot on the eves of each solstice. After that, I'd fire bomb the building.
> 
> Paul


 For the record, I don't live in Louisiana and my name isn't Chad. Lol just wanted to clear that up so if I ever irritate you on here you wont come to hunt me down. Haha


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

rocksteady said:


> I would find out the email addresses of all the employees and sign them up to gay perno and Islamic fundamentalist sites. Then I'd buy a full page add in the local newspaper saying that they have Satanic rituals in the parking lot on the eves of each solstice. After that, I'd fire bomb the building.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't hold back, man, tell us how ya really feel:laughing:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

rocksteady said:


> I would find out the email addresses of all the employees and sign them up to gay perno and Islamic fundamentalist sites. Then I'd buy a full page add in the local newspaper saying that they have Satanic rituals in the parking lot on the eves of each solstice. After that, I'd fire bomb the building.
> 
> Paul


Definitely the fire bomb... The rest are just details!


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Indie said:


> This forum is viewable to the public. It would not be very professional to allow that language to be seen. Hence the substituted words. Lol


Sorry,you just can't take me out in public.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I have a concern and that concern is exactly what percentage of anyone’s client base purchases their own products? If more than 5% I do think a visit to how you do business should be examined. We have 4 home depots and 3 Lowes close by and I doubt that 2-3% buy their own fixtures. It sounds as if doomsday is here and our industry is hitting rock bottom. All this is telling us the way to do business is a changing and we must adapt to the new surroundings.

In this case I would let the manager of Fergusons know and send an email to corporate explaining what happened and that you have lost trust and faith with Fergusons and will no longer send your clients to them. Talk with your local PHCC and let the others know what happened to you. It is happening to them too.

Something that I like about Fergusons is I can set up through their website access to all of the fixtures they sell. When I am with a client that is interested in Kohler products we go to that website and the client can choose the fixtures while I am there. I then can get prices from any and all of the Kohler dealers in my area. Help the customer do their shopping and by pass the showrooms. I do not know of any showrooms that do not give out prices. I do not want a price given at all. That is my job. Start controlling the things that you can control.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I've already adapted to the above scenario. I encourage people to buy their products if it is over $100 in cost. I'm not carrying that inventory if I don't have to.


Life is much simpler that way, I don't have to run and get it, I don't get the phone calls when even the simplest thing goes wrong with it. 


Tons of product under $100 in plumbing that I make good profit measure. 

I don't want that call for a garbage disposal I supplied 2 years ago that stopped working, people can't seem to push the red reset button and since I supplied it, I'm going out and charging that'll leave 'some' customers fuming as of course they'll say they've done nothing wrong to cause it. 

Same goes with a leaking faucet. They'll make it my fault the city waterworks drained a fire hydrant and sent sediment into 'that faucet you installed doesn't have water coming out of it.'


If they paid for it... guess what; I'm charging for my time. Only way to go and I'm keeping my inventory shrunk down where I'm not out there with my neck sticking out to be taxed or struggling between a short run to a big box store or back to the shop, 8 miles further because I got a marginal profit level in the product I purchased that's taken months to install.

Doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me.


But this does hold true:


Any of you plumbers that have significant inventories... the true value is less than .40 cents on the dollar for every dollar you spent. 

It's only value is when it is installed, that's it. All of us have product that we 'hope' we'll get out of products we bought and still waiting for it to be installed.

Some of its regret, some of it is just needle in a haystack product that hopefully will change in the future.

I got inventory from 8 years ago I still haven't used... at the time it was installed commonly. Kinda like my 24 AS discs, screw on type. Haven't used a one and at the time I was changing 2 a month... not anymore. Probably cannot even give them away.:no:


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

That's sick. I would definitely go in person. I would clear the schedule and march my happy self in there like yesterday. Say your piece and let them wine dine and comp you if they offer and line up a new vendor anyway.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Had that happen one Saturday at the Ferg on Church Street in Orlando. All the tradesman standing around watching both counter people schooling two separate people. (one handy clown with the owners trying to figure out how to do a repipe. The other trying to ID a cartridge. Went on for almost an hour. I had my stuff in a basket. Finally had enough, said some choice things and they jumped to get me checked out riki tik. Called my rep Monday and they took me out to eat and drink a couple times, offered me Orlando Magic tickets and word must've got around cause they always went out of their way to get me in and out forever after. It was a noticeable change. But that's not as bad as losing a repipe to them. That would be near unforgivable.




Bayside500 said:


> i have gone to the will call counter at ferggies and had to wait while some DIY'er is trying to explain what they need, and the counter people waste my time trying to explain to them how to fix their problem, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Had that happen one Saturday at the Ferg on Church Street in Orlando. All the tradesman standing around watching both counter people schooling two separate people. (one handy clown with the owners trying to figure out how to do a repipe. The other trying to ID a cartridge. Went on for almost an hour. I had my stuff in a basket. Finally had enough, said some choice things and they jumped to get me checked out riki tik. Called my rep Monday and they took me out to eat and drink a couple times, offered me Orlando Magic tickets and word must've got around cause they always went out of their way to get me in and out forever after. It was a noticeable change. But that's not as bad as losing a repipe to them. That would be near unforgivable.




Bayside500 said:


> i have gone to the will call counter at ferggies and had to wait while some DIY'er is trying to explain what they need, and the counter people waste my time trying to explain to them how to fix their problem, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks everybody.

I'm probably going to just let it go. I don't exactly have a good relationship with Randy, the Express Counter Manager -- He and I have feuded off and on for over 16 years over prices, product availability, shipping charges and inter-branch orders.

Having spent less than 14 grand there over the past 18 months, he'll likely tell me to piss off -- Fergusons has never really been my go-to place for materials anyways.

I'll keep the account, because they're basically the only supply house on the East Side, other than Pacific, but no more purchases from the Showroom -- I'd rather spend a little bit more on Kohler fixtures at Seattle Interiors and just absorb 5% of my 20% mark-up than deal with the mouth breathing bottom dwellers at Fergusons Showroom.


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

My supply house here in Va. allows me to have truck inventory that I don't pay for until I use it. Can be for anything but I only use it for Disposals, faucets, toilets and water heaters.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

express said:


> My supply house here in Va. allows me to have truck inventory that I don't pay for until I use it. Can be for anything but I only use it for Disposals, faucets, toilets and water heaters.


That could be extremely helpful, especially for a small outfit just starting out.

What is the name of the house? Nat. Franchise?


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

losing that repipe job would have me pissed....... Had a incident where one of the wholesale houses sold a commercial water heater direct to the nursing home and wanted me to put it in. Needless to say i put the new one in the basement.... put the would be markup of the heater in my labor charge, pulled my account from the wholesaler, and let them find someone to hall that w/h out of the basement.
had the resident maintenance man was telling me that by buying it direct they saved so much money........ i asked him how full retail felt and a not happy plumber doing the billing.....:laughing:


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