# Strut yoself



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Todays job. Oddly enough I actually had the budget to do a little more than the usual. I had about 5 hours on the job...in the friggen rain and I spent about 45 min on the phone with Gear Junkie!

Existing tankless was bought from Blowes about 5 years ago and installed by a Blowes "installer". The heater has issues but I won't work on it. The guy couldn't find anyone who knew how to fix these. He seemed taken back that I wouldn't fix it, but I told him that's the only brand I won't touch. When he asked why, I just said that unit is not worth my time and I am not going to marry it. I am not in the business of fixing Bosch garbage.

So it's still online while I do this install, I may bring my units online tomorrow...we'll see how it goes. Haven't been feeling too well latley and this job was perfect for me right now. Slow and easy.

The shutoff valves work really well











PRV was wizzing with 60 pounds on it. 









No strapping and black pipe outside W/out an epoxy paint.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Who can tell me that that MIP on the far left is for? No comment Smells.










I still haven't totally figured out how I want to do gas, this one is a little different, in that the line will run behind that bush. However I initially was planning on just using CSST than I realized that I need to protect that pipe from Pedro and his clippers. Than I was going to just do it in galvi. Than I realized how long everything was going to take and decided to go back to CSST because it will take me no time at all to put the line together but I will insulate the 1" CSST with 1 1/4" ABS....ahhh yes, the dredded ABS. It has more than one function. I also thought if I ran the galvi behind the bush, what's to stop pedro from hitting it with his electric / gas sheers or clippers or whatever they use to trim that stuf? I thought maybe I need to insulate / protect the galvi...at that point I was tired of thinking and went to work on the copper. How do you guys think I should run the gas and protect it. The way I thought of with the ABS works and is actually recommended by Gas Tite...thoughts, comments.....?


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Here's a better picture of that clown's makeup. No shutoff valves.....unreal:no:


----------



## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Tankless said:


> Who can tell me that that MIP on the far left is for? No comment Smells.
> 
> View attachment 4312


I don't know. going to give them a hose faucet with hot water? hehe

As far as protecting the CSST I have never run it on the outside before so haven't needed to sleeve it. I would just run it in steel and have a valve by the meter. I doubt that the gardner would hurt it with his clippers, he wouldn't want to break the clippers and should stay away.


----------



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I think I'd just use steel also. I don't think you could cut through sch. 40 steel with anything a gardener has on his truck, maybe a chain saw. 




Paul


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I agree. I think it will be less time to run it in galv than in csst. You'd dig a trench, sleeve it, cut a vent in the sleeve, seal the sleeve on each end. Don't forget your level that was on the heater on the left.


Unless you get the stuff rated for underground then it might be faster


----------



## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

Nice looking job:thumbsup: . Use steel on the gas, I would nevwe run CSST outside.


----------



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Ahhhh, soooo it's my fault it took you 5 hours to solder 10 joints and put in two tankless. It only took Nacho 1 hour.




























Just kidding, nice work.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I still did it with CSST. I understand who Para doesn't put it outdoors, I think I've seen lightning twice in the last 8 or so years here. It's legal, it's faster and it's done.









Still having a hard time adapting to the water based flux. makes the joints look like ****. I don't know if I am over fluxing or what, but every now and then I get a joint that looks like this. And I wipe my joints too.
















Plumb and level. What a concept.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Just a few more little things to take care of. 










Check out the bend I made on the left of the NMC. No burn marks either!!
While this looks fine and dandy, there is still a lot wrong with this house. There's spots here and there of rusted galvi that are choking the main. I'll be on this place for at least another 3 days or so.


----------



## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

Nice job. Clean workmanship! 

Time to insulate and cover the over heated solder joints.:laughing::laughing:


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

That's what I'm talking about, that crappy flux makes it look terrible. The rag I used was saturated to say the least, and it totally looks like I cooked them, but they aren't. Pisses me off. anyone know what I can clean it off with?



A Good Plumber said:


> Nice job. Clean workmanship!
> 
> Time to insulate and cover the over heated solder joints.:laughing::laughing:


----------



## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I just did an industrial water heater job and used *No-Korode* Aqua-safe, which is their water soluble brand name. All the joints look burned, except a few that I was able to wipe with a wet rag immediately. No leaks, though. I have used the cold weather Aqua-safe, and thought it was a little better.


----------



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Tankless said:


> That's what I'm talking about, that crappy flux makes it look terrible. The rag I used was saturated to say the least, and it totally looks like I cooked them, but they aren't. Pisses me off. anyone know what I can clean it off with?


I always wipe my hot joints with a dry rag. Once they cool on their own, I use a norton abrasive pad to shine each joint. I also use the same pad to prep the pipe. Haven't bought sandcloth in a long time. I forget what grit the pad is but it's sold at HD(I'm still a hack) in the paint prep department and it's grey in color.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Like one of those hand held foam sanding blocks? 




gear junkie said:


> I always wipe my hot joints with a dry rag. Once they cool on their own, I use a norton abrasive pad to shine each joint. I also use the same pad to prep the pipe. Haven't bought sandcloth in a long time. I forget what grit the pad is but it's sold at HD(I'm still a hack) in the paint prep department and it's grey in color.


----------



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Looking at Nortons website, I see they're called synthetic non woven pads.


----------



## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

nice work.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I got a small sample of the No-Korade liquid flux, it works as advertised, it does not burn and flushes out easily.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I hafe to ASSume it works better than the stuff I am using? The solder takes just fine, but it's like a grease frying pan with that Aqua Flux crap I have.



SewerRatz said:


> I got a small sample of the No-Korade liquid flux, it works as advertised, it does not burn and flushes out easily.


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Tankless said:


> I hafe to ASSume it works better than the stuff I am using? The solder takes just fine, but it's like a grease frying pan with that Aqua Flux crap I have.


Thats what they say on their spec sheet, since there is no paste it will not burn
http://www.rectorseal.com/files/246/dsfluidflx.htm

http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php?site_id=1&product_id=246


----------



## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

nice looking job, but i don't think ya can do that with the CSST stuff, from the  installation PDF on their site 

website for more information......
http://www.gastite.com/page.php?pg=technical_resources&idlink=link6


----------



## amh112181 (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't know if it a national code, but up here in Maine we have to run a bond wire(#4 bare copper) to the panel if we use csst. And no exposed stainless we have to wrap it in some special tape.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't know what you're talking about. I know how to install this product, I also teach other plumbers how to do it as well. What you posted makes no sense to me. I mentioned the need for protection long before I installed the CSST. Not only did I recognize the possible hazard but I properly addressed it in a better than code compliant manor. So tell me why you think I can't do what I did please? 




Bayside500 said:


> nice looking job, but i don't think ya can do that with the CSST stuff, from the installation PDF on their site
> 
> website for more information......
> http://www.gastite.com/page.php?pg=technical_resources&idlink=link6


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Gas tite fittings are designed to incorporate the sleeved jacket. Trac pipe is designed for the jacket to be stripped back a few inches off the fittings. I hate track pipe personally. I think it looks shoddy to have the SS exposed like that. My $.02

The bonding is a fluid issue. It is an electrical requirement, but there are now some issues about where (geographically) this is required for bonding. In my parts it was required for a few months than the inspectors were told it can be done but they are not enforcing it. In all the thousands of feet of this piping I have installed I have never once had an issue with quality control or inspectors actually knowing what they were talking about on this product. Now in other parts like where Gear Junkie lives, inspectors require the home owner to write a little note that says they want this product installed in their home, the same with pex. Yet 15 minutes away, it's been used for at least 6 years with no issue. This is what Para was talking about. In areas where lightning actually does damage to property I totally agree with him...bonded or not, this stuff should not be installed outdoors on a resi application. But out here....were lucky to get 2 or 3 inches of rain a year :laughing: and the last time I saw lightning was on a trip to Independance, Kansas about 10 years ago. This topic has been debated - been temp. restricted from ionstallation (Mass.) - bonded - not bonded.....When I am told it's required, I'll do it. From an electrical engineering standpoint the bonding will do next to nothing from a strike but that's a whole nother topic!!

How pissed would you guys get if I told you I am not required to insulate those pipes? Inspectors could care less about that in my parts. They know it never gets down to a freezing point and being so close to the ocean almost gaurentees it won't ever get that cold. 




amh112181 said:


> I don't know if it a national code, but up here in Maine we have to run a bond wire(#4 bare copper) to the panel if we use csst. And no exposed stainless we have to wrap it in some special tape.


----------



## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

nice copper work tankless (get some really fine steel wool to shine that cu) :thumbup:i dont understand why you didnt run the gas in all steel? but really would it have been so hard to run the extra 10' or so in galvy to the meter? it looked straight forward shot?


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

The short version is, the day before New Years Eve, my house was closed. They have a threader that I just go and use whenever I need it. Again, I don't own one as I just don't have a big need for it. So I was planning on doing it on Thursday until I learned that they were going to be closed. I already had the 1" CSST in my own stock as well as the fittings so I just used it. My only other option was to either call in a favor from another plumber in town (hay bro, can ya cut me some pipe?) or go to blows and waste 2 hrs of my life getting it done there. I really wasn;t interested in either, when it took me about 20 minutes start to finish to do that trunk. The piece was 9'and 2" to be exact!! I'm just so used to using this stuff that I'm hardly setup for much iron pipe. I have nipples from 24" on down and various lengths in 1/2 to 1 1/2. So I could have either done what I did or have some rigged up coupling infested piece or that. I went with that. My only issue with it, is the added costs that I could have avoided with a little better planning. There was a lot to consider when I was picking parts for this job, and a few other than making sure orders were placed and on their way....Does it really make the install look bad?



Plumbworker said:


> nice copper work tankless :thumbup:i dont understand why you didnt run the gas in all steel? but really would it have been so hard to run the extra 10' or so in galvy to the meter? it looked straight forward shot?


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

You need one of these on your truck Tankless.


----------



## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

the only reason i bring it up, is because i did a gas job a few months ago and the plumbing inspector passed it fine,

the gas company comes and makes us do a few other things.

there was a pool heater and a generator in the back yard, we had run CSST inside of PVC sleeve to the locations, the sleeve was above the final grade about 1 foot, and there was about 2 feet of CSST sticking out with bushings to make a tighter fit and it was sealed with epoxy , so i bent it over to a horizontal and ran steel pipe from that to the appliances.

well the gas company made me cut the CSST as close as possible to the sleeve and run steel pipe from that point.

there ended up being maybe about 1-2 inches max of CSST exposed after all was said and done.

i'm just saying


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> You need one of these on your truck Tankless.


OK, so in my upbringing as a plumber my first boss (worked for 4 yrs for him) didn't own a threader. He owned that set from Rigid. And we did a lot of iron pipe. I still have Popeye forearms from that damn thing. That pic brought back some pretty awefull memories. I guess I should get another one


----------



## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

this is what i keep on the truck for a few joints here and there the wheeler rex sidekick threader i love this thing handles 1/2" - 1"


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Oh, I see....well the gas company was wrong. Manufacturers installation instructions trump all other AHJ's. The only time one is required to sleeve the pipe is if running it underground (not the new stuff), penetrading any kind of masonry or protecting the pipe from possible damage. This is done with electrical conduit ALL THE TIME. What constitutes exposer to damage is really up to what that particular inspector things. I use my own best judgment and it is always beyond what is required. Whom ever said to use epoxy as part of a bushing seal is wrong. You gotta know that this stuff expands and contracts on a daily basis. There needs to be a little slack in there to account for this. It will tear the SS if it gets cold enough. If we had to sleeve this stuff everytime it was ran, what would be the point of running it? Only in areas where it suseptable to damage :thumbsup:



Bayside500 said:


> the only reason i bring it up, is because i did a gas job a few months ago and the plumbing inspector passed it fine,
> 
> the gas company comes and makes us do a few other things.
> 
> ...


----------



## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Tankless said:


> OK, so in my upbringing as a plumber my first boss (worked for 4 yrs for him) didn't own a threader. He owned that set from Rigid. And we did a lot of iron pipe. I still have Popeye forearms from that damn thing. That pic brought back some pretty awefull memories. I guess I should get another one


I have the older version of this with 1/2" to 1 1/2 dies. Its a sweat machine, Ridgid version is Nice too


----------



## hulihan (Aug 11, 2009)

We just did one, and all out side was steel and through the garage and all was WardFlex, power threaders are the best, have all three of what was shown here, looks great, but I too am not sure about the Wardflex outside, but it looks sweet, have a few other ?, more on the mixing the two heaters that way, but, like I said, loooks good !


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> I have the older version of this with 1/2" to 1 1/2 dies. Its a sweat machine, Ridgid version is Nice too


The Ridgid 600 only goes to 1¼, not 1½, I used to own a 700 with dies to two inch, but I never replaced it when my truck got broken into and cleaned out.


----------



## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Hulahan, Bayside already posted it. I can run this stuff all day long on the exterior walls / roof - on masonry / steel / wood siding. The only catch is if it is reasonably able to be damaged. i.e. a weed wacker / lawnmower, or a door that can hit it or if it is ran right near a jamb that if someone was to haul something in and out, it could get hit. It's really common sense as for how it's installed. Would I run this stuff behing deep bush? No, I don't want branches and vines wrapping around the pipe and cause undue stress. But like you see it, and for the hundreds of others I have ran like this....a little thought goes a long way. I get that this stuff is fairly new to market....but I have read the manus info and I have read the code on it as well as keeping up with changes. There is a lot more to consider when installing this in wall....this is a cake walk. As for other installs of duelies, just know these should ALWAYS be installed in parallel...I'm just making one big heater with some redundency in it. I use this same setup in smaller resturants and larger homes. I gotta say, it's so easy doing these outdoors. Try working on this on your knees in a cramped attic for a few days.:no:


----------



## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Hey Tankless, looks good. You asked about how to fix your what looks like overheated joints. You can heat them up and wipe flux on it again while it's hot and it will clean it up then wipe it with a rag to get the excess off. Or better yet, just sand it. But I'm sure you knew already.


----------

