# Working without a master.



## MattL (Nov 11, 2011)

So today at work the master plumber quit! Because of pay, and the only plumbers at work are me (journeyman) and 1 apprentices and were not far behind him. But I got so many codes running threw my head im about brain dead now. But can I legally work without the master plumber there? Im thinking that KY code calls for a journeyman to be supervised by a master, correct??


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Don't know your states code but in Tx you can't work unless Thers a master plumber. Here he is called rmp. Responsible master plumber !! He's insured and pulls all permits. There mite be a grace period or mite not!!! If he quits and calls the city to close all permits and informs the city he is not the rmp then they have to shut the doors pretty soon or get a rmp. I'd be looking for a job just incase!!!


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## MattL (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks for the response!! And yes pulling the permits is worrying me! I am already scouting jobs. Like u said maybe there's a grace period?? Hopefully some KY plumbers will chime in.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Dunbar. Is from ky if I'm correct Dunbar plumbing. is his screen name. He is owner operator and would be the man to ask !!!


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

MattL said:


> Thanks for the response!! And yes pulling the permits is worrying me! I am already scouting jobs. Like u said maybe there's a grace period?? Hopefully some KY plumbers will chime in.


 

Correct; Journeyman cannot conduct work without the supervision or direction of a master.


The company you work for probably won't be doing any new work without a master pulling permits. 

Tim House is no longer the director of the division of plumbing in KY. 

I'd check around, see if you can find work with another plumber before leaving your current position.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*they will find someone*

you will probably be the head guy now that this fellow has gone...

your company probably will lease a liscense from some old retired fart that still has his masters lisc.....

this should give you good incentive to attain a masters lisc... dont you thinnk>>>:yes:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

MattL said:


> Thanks for the response!! And yes pulling the permits is worrying me! I am already scouting jobs. Like u said maybe there's a grace period?? Hopefully some KY plumbers will chime in.



Why not apply for you Master test and become more valuable to the firm????

Also, if its a decent employer why hurt them further by cutting and running? Last I checked getting licensed in KY wasn't any more difficult, and possibly easier than KY.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

No offense MattL, but this is stuff you should know, or at least have the knowledge of where to look. 

It took me about 5 seconds to find this. 

http://dhbc.ky.gov/Plb/Pages/license.aspx


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

*Section 4. Requirements for Master Plumber Applicants. Pursuant to KRS 318.040(1)(d), each person shall meet the following requirements to become licensed as a master plumber:* * (1)(a) An applicant shall have:*
* 1. A valid journeyman plumber's license for a minimum of two (2) years within the past five (5) years immediately preceding application; and*
* 2. Been actively employed in plumbing under the supervision of a licensed master plumber for a minimum of two (2) years; or*
(b) The applicant shall be a Kentucky registered engineer experienced in mechanical engineering.
(2) An applicant shall successfully complete the examination developed and administered by the State Plumbing Examining Committee. The examination shall be designed to demonstrate that the applicant:
(a) Understands KRS Chapter 318 and 815 KAR Chapter 20;
(b) Is capable of the design of a plumbing system; and
(c) Understands the technical and practical installation techniques and principles for a safe and sanitary plumbing system.
(3) The examination shall include:
(a) Answering written questions pertaining to basic principles of plumbing and KRS Chapter 318 and 815 KAR Chapter 20; and
(b) Inserting the proper pipe size on a prepared drawing that indicates all stacks, wastes and vents and the plumbing fixtures connected thereto. The proper sizing of main stacks shall be given more importance than other piping. Deductions shall be required for oversized piping and for undersized piping.
(4) The passing grade for the total examination for a master plumber shall be eighty (80) percent, with a minimum of seventy-five (75) percent obtained for each portion of the examination established in subsection (3)(a) and (b) of this section.


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## MattL (Nov 11, 2011)

Indie said:


> No offense MattL, but this is stuff you should know, or at least have the knowledge of where to look.
> 
> It took me about 5 seconds to find this.
> 
> http://dhbc.ky.gov/Plb/Pages/license.aspx


Thanks Indie I wish my internet would load in 5 seconds! I know I have to be under supervision if a master. I was just wondering now what I can do without a master there? Probley much of nothing. I may install a couple of toilets but not hook the water to them. Inspector is gonna be there tomorrow to check progress I know him pretty well Ill have a chit-chat with him. I have 4-6 months I think before I have my 2 years in as a journeyman. I believe i need to get my masters so I wont have to worry about these problems again.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

MattL said:


> Thanks Indie I wish my internet would load in 5 seconds! I know I have to be under supervision if a master. I was just wondering now what I can do without a master there? Probley much of nothing. I may install a couple of toilets but not hook the water to them. Inspector is gonna be there tomorrow to check progress I know him pretty well Ill have a chit-chat with him. I have 4-6 months I think before I have my 2 years in as a journeyman. I believe i need to get my masters so I wont have to worry about these problems again.



I forgot the hills of KY can play tough with the internet. :laughing:

My suggestions is to do what you have to do to 1. Keep working, 2. Get that Master License. Good luck. I would think the most important part of getting licensed is to make sure of what happens at this time without the Master. Call the State yourself and get it from the horses mouth. I have heard more than one time bad information given from people who don't actually know. When I want to know something for certain I call the Indiana Professional Licensing Agency direct. 

Anyway, like I said. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## MattL (Nov 11, 2011)

Pluses now im not actively under supervision of a master its gonna screw up my last 4-6 months of getting my masters just gonna put it off more. But I think im just gonna go to Lowes where they have a master plumber there that hooks up water heaters and installs sinks for customers I guess I can ride out that out till I get my last months in. People may laugh at me for going to work at lowes but its better the unemployment and christmas is coming. And ill have insurance then ill get my masters and start something of my own.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

MattL said:


> Thanks Indie I wish my internet would load in 5 seconds! I know I have to be under supervision if a master. I was just wondering now what I can do without a master there? Probley much of nothing. I may install a couple of toilets but not hook the water to them. Inspector is gonna be there tomorrow to check progress I know him pretty well Ill have a chit-chat with him. I have 4-6 months I think before I have my 2 years in as a journeyman. I believe i need to get my masters so I wont have to worry about these problems again.


The only inspector i know that comes out on sundays is.......Mike Holmes.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Latest test results in August.

http://dhbc.ky.gov/Plb/Documents/JMR.pdf


*Only 9 people passed out of 4 testing dates.*


As you see, passing your masters is not as easy as it sounds. It's not easy, and they don't just any jackleg running plumbing work. 


And from the journeyman's exams, a lot of them don't pass either.



The majority of journeyman never go onto becoming master plumbers. And out of those that become master plumbers, majority of those don't run successful plumbing companies. It's just the facts. 


Out of my 4 year plumbing apprenticeship, class of 35 of us:


The instructor runs his own business, 

Me and 1 other guy, on our own with our own company.

A third fellow ended up buying ownership of another company that he worked at for years.


4 out of 35 is a very real statistic. Majority work for other plumbing companies enjoying the perks of working for others. Some master plumbers also get treated well in their positions.


I know a great deal of plumbing companies that would go under if not for sucking off the nipple of their wife's income to keep it rolling.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Latest test results in August.
> 
> http://dhbc.ky.gov/Plb/Documents/JMR.pdf
> 
> ...


They say KY does not reciprocate with any state. I didn't find anything about counting experience. I have a contractors here in OK would they let me test for the journeyman/contractors?


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Come on over to California. Bozo the clown can take a truck out on call all by himself, as long as the owner of the company has the Contractor's License. Piece of cake!


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## Plumber/sc (Sep 16, 2011)

Same way in south carolina and north Carolina that why shady work ever where


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

Indie stole my thunder


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