# Rheem water heater issue



## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

Im having a problem solving a residential rheem w/heater issue. this is natural gas, atmos vented 40 gal. i relight the pilot and then turn on the burner, the flames start dancing alot, then goes out, pilot included. this made me think that it wasn't getting enough combust. air, so i tryed cleaning it, i thought it would be similar to an A.O where you clean the filter that wraps around the base and clean the screen under the heater with a brush, but its not the case with Rheems. i still did my best to clean it by taking the burner assem. out and cleaning inside, but the heater still wont stay lit. the flame still dances then goes out, its not the gas valve because the gas continues to be released, once the flame goes out. to me it all points to a lack of air issue. 
can anyone help.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

This is a FVIR heater? Will it stay lit with the combustion chamber cover removed?






Paul


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## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

i did take the site glass out and tried it like that but still the same


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm thinking it's not a combustion air problem if that's the case. Did you put a manometer on the gas supply? Did you pull the burner and check the orifice to make sure it wasn't plugged/obstructed?






Paul


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## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

i didn't check the gas, but did check the orfice. was there a better way to clean it than the way i did it.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

I clean FVIR heater filters with either compressed air or a vacuum.





Paul


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## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

i won't be back infront of that heater till tomorrow. ill check the gas and blow it out with comp air. thanks, if any thing else comes to mind let me know.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*the glass vial has broken*

that is probably going to be a *broken glass vial issue *

or its going to be the *gas control itself...*

the peanut oil vial that keeps the air going into the bottom 
of the heater has probably broken and tripped the spring..

do you see any broken glass inside the unit

my guess is the unit has had a fire and its now trashed...

they claim you can buy new vials for the unit but I dont 
think I would waste the time trying to repair it........


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## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

didn't see any glass broken im not sure it has it, its 2004. i've heard about those non-restable limits that gave you no option but to replace the whole heater, i don't think this is one of them. remember the i am able to light the pilot then start the burner, then after a few seconds the flame goes out but gas continues to be released, untill the thermo cools down of course.


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## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

Master Mark, You are the master, you are correct. I called Rheem today and they said the vial did break. they will be sending the homeowner a new one later this week and ill be putting it in. ..thank you. i learn something new.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*never fooled with one yet*

I have never actually repaired one yet, that might be interesting,,,,
 I have heard that they are now sending those oil vilas out to people,
 but if you dont clean the lint out of the unit , it might just overheat again..... 

then you get to repeat the process.......


I have heard tell of someone actually cutting a piece of copper 
pipe the right length and wedjeing it into the opening holding the spring open forever......

of course that is not considered the right way to do this...


I would suggest trying to talk them into a new heater,
 if it is still under tank warranty , all the better.


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## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

if i remember to take my camera, ill take pics and post them. wont be till the end of the week.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

I have replaced one of the vials. It is a simple job. Just be sure to blow out the flame arrestor like the others said. the vial will come with instructions.


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## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

I made the repair to the w/heater today and i took a few pics. here is the pic of the vial, which goes inside the combust. chamber pushing down the pin which opens the damper allowing air to get in. and whaaalaa we have a flame and a very happy customer. also installed new gasket.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

gplumb said:


> I made the repair to the w/heater today and i took a few pics. here is the pic of the vial, which goes inside the combust. chamber pushing down the pin which opens the damper allowing air to get in. and whaaalaa we have a flame and a very happy customer. also installed new gasket.


I just hit one of these today. First time I'd run into one with a failed glass vial. I had no idea how that thing worked when I started and wasted a bunch of time figuring out that the combustion air cutoff was the problem - I didn't know that thing was in there. :laughing: Oh well, once I found it and figured out how it must work I just cleaned the intakes and propped that baby open with a 3/8" brass compression nut. Sealed it back up and it works perfect. Guess I should call Rheem and get a vial sent out. The nut is a decent temporary solution though.

Tank is in the laundry room of a dumpy run-down rental shack. Looks like a combination of pet dander and dryer lint plugged up the intakes.


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## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

yea if the vial breaks.. its got a spring loaded door that shuts off air flow to the unit, seen it a few times... flame typically turns blue and dances for a few seconds b4 cutting out..sry i didnt see this post sooner


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

how long did it take to get your hands on a oil vial??
I talked to my rheem sales rep and he sort of hem-hawed around 
about it and claimed he would have to special order one for me....

there is still a small screen underneath that vial that needs to be cleaned 
so it makes me wonder how long that vial will last before it chokes out......again





Here is a rheem unit I tore out due to a broken vial and I took the
bottom off to see the underneath side of the air inlet ..
take notice of the dust and lint

I dont know how anyone can clean that underbelly lower screen correctly ,
maybe reach in there with a dremmel saw and slice it up???

so the next best thing is to get it air through the front of the unit
by geting rid of the looking glass and not sealing down that gasket 


I think that Rheem would probably prefer you to change the unit...

I would certainly tell your customer 
only time will tell how long it lasts....


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Master Mark said:


> how long did it take to get your hands on a oil vial??
> I talked to my rheem sales rep and he sort of hem-hawed around
> about it and claimed he would have to special order one for me....
> 
> ...


I don't think there is enough of a hole. This is one reason I stay away from Rheem, American and the like. This is where a Bradford White comes in handy if you can't up sell a unit that brings in its own fresh air.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Gettinit said:


> I don't think there is enough of a hole. This is one reason I stay away from Rheem, American and the like. This is where a Bradford White comes in handy if you can't up sell a unit that brings in its own fresh air.


 
I agree wth you to a point...The Bradfords certainly have a larger air
intake than all the others...its the Icon valve that scares me and what 
will happen with that in a few more years.....


But I am getting on average
about 10+ years out of a Rheem water heater...
RARELY have I had to deal with this oil vial...


we are only getting about 5-7 years out of the gas bradfords.. 
and a lot of them we installed back in 05-07 are beginnning to leak under warranty
The steel they are useing to make the tank is sub-standard and cannot hold up
to soft water..(sodium) ...compaired to the Rheem units....

My own personal 75 gallon Bradford went out in 6 1/2 years and that is with all
the bells and whistles installed on it ... prv valve, thermal exp tank..


I have changed out 30+ bradfords still under warranty this year,,....maybe more
we are on their warranty page on the internet so we do get calls from all over town
and I am also on the Rheem warranty site too
,
I have maybe done 2 Rheem tank warranty change outs.... this year
.

I guess its a good gig if you like going back out and changeing 
the units for a stiff labor fee, but I would rather not rely on it


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

What about removing and saving vials from old units? This is new to me and have yet to cross this. When did they start using them?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Epox said:


> What about removing and saving vials from old units? This is new to me and have yet to cross this. When did they start using them?


 
they have been out since 2003...the FVIR change over
so that is almost 10 years ago... 

Its basically a non-issue.. they have performend very well for 10 years...wih very few problems..

so what more can you ask......that is certainly better than Whirlpool, sears, and others....


It really is better to change out the heater to keep you 
out of fire and carbon monoxide law suit issues 
than to rig one up for a cheap ass customer and hope it works ok....

no good deed ever goes unpunished.


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## 1bddelx (Aug 18, 2012)

Are these TRD's still in the new model's? I looked around on the internet and didn't see a yes or no.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

1bddelx said:


> Are these TRD's still in the new model's? I looked around on the internet and didn't see a yes or no.


 
why would they not be in the new ones....??

like I already stated they have been out for 10 years
and unless a squirrell stops up the chimmney and the unit overheats its never been much of a problem....

that was the whole idea of the FVIR systems , to prevent fires in the home....


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Some manufacturers have something similar to a roll out switch that is resettable. Some can be reset via the gas valve with a particular code.


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## 1bddelx (Aug 18, 2012)

Master Mark said:


> why would they not be in the new ones....??
> 
> like I already stated they have been out for 10 years
> and unless a squirrell stops up the chimmney and the unit overheats its never been much of a problem....
> ...


 
I was curious. I never used a rheem water heater before always ao smith or bradford but have come across this issue many times. Out here in So Cal garages, the firebox gets hot. I have seen numerous ones of this fail and people are lost of what to do. At my work we have hundreds of calls a day for water heaters having issues. Thats why I was curious if these are in new models also.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Make sure that you clean the flame arrestor when you put that new glass vial in or, it will be popping again...




Gettinit said:


> Some manufacturers have something similar to a roll out switch that is resettable. Some can be reset via the gas valve with a particular code.


Bradford White is resettable....


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Went on a water heater repair call today. Landlord I do lots of work for, Whirlpool water heater with a bad thermocouple on it. Of course it was a left hand threaded thermocouple, which I did not have. I did however have a gas control valve for a State water heater. I installed the new gas valve and new thermocouple and bam fired right up and worked great.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> Went on a water heater repair call today. Landlord I do lots of work for, Whirlpool water heater with a bad thermocouple on it. Of course it was a left hand threaded thermocouple, which I did not have. I did however have a gas control valve for a State water heater. I installed the new gas valve and new thermocouple and bam fired right up and worked great.


I think they are selling conversion kits just for left hand thermocouples. 

Does anyone have plumbing supply houses that have on call people? There is only one near me.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> I think they are selling conversion kits just for left hand thermocouples.
> 
> Does anyone have plumbing supply houses that have on call people? There is only one near me.


Blowes quit selling or warranting the heaters, you have to call 1-800-hold for to  long. I normally just replace Whirlpools but, this one was in a really tight spot.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

easttexasplumb said:


> Blowes quit selling or warranting the heaters, you have to call 1-800-hold for to  long. I normally just replace Whirlpools but, this one was in a really tight spot.


Don't you just love it. Perfect opportunity to talk up your water heaters.


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## Big cheez (Jan 11, 2012)

Those conversion kits are a piece of s###. They will damage the gas valve if you tighten them more than hand tight.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Big cheez said:


> Those conversion kits are a piece of s###. They will damage the gas valve if you tighten them more than hand tight.


Is over tightening what makes it bad :blink: ?


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## Big cheez (Jan 11, 2012)

It has a small magnate about the size of a b.b. and the minute you over tighten it you will damage the gas valve. to me it's generic, your better off replacing the gas valve. If your running a group of guys that install that conversion kit your bound to have somebody screw it up. Whirlpool water heaters are the glacier bay of water heaters. I'd prefer to just replace the unit but not every customer wants to pay.


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## Keefer w (Jan 26, 2012)

Ok, ran into one of these broken vials today, the question is; the "mechanical" room is carpeted. Does the rheem only intake from the sides? Besides other issues, can the heater sitting on carpet cause the overheating?


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## WHTEVO (Mar 16, 2011)

We blow out the inside, the intake vents on the sides, and under the combustion chamber plate with our air compressor with a attachment on the end of the hose on the Rheem heaters. Works everytime. 
No, the water heater sitting on carpet is not going to cause it to overheat and break the vial. Otherwise it would've did it from the get go correct


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