# TY's in venting ..



## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

So .. when you are running your venting do you install your TY's upside down .. or up side right.. I was always taught that in venting you run them up side down to aid in the flow of gasses, but my apprentice seams to think i am just being picky .. 

So how do you run them .. and is there a reason why ?


Lifer...


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Of course I install my Tee's and Wye's to go with the flow of air.

Easy concept to understand.


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## Pipe Dreams (Feb 10, 2011)

If he's your apprentice then why is he telling you how to do something? There's only one way to install a TY in a venting application.....the right way. (upside down as you put it)


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

Pipe Dreams said:


> If he's your apprentice then why is he telling you how to do something? There's only one way to install a TY in a venting application.....the right way. (upside down as you put it)


 
Let's get one thing straight .. no one is telling me how to do it .. but I unlike someother journeymen I know am always open to debait espically if I do not know a code reason as to why why i do something a certin way other than " it's how I was shown" 

Learning is a life long experance .. and lets face it some old dogs need to learn some new tricks .

As far as I am concernd a first year or been doin it since you were a glimmer in your daddys eye... they can all teach you something , If you wanna listen.



Lifer...


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

does he also turn Wye's for toilets and sinks backwards

if he cant get the idea of how things flow, he might not be cut out for this type of work

its plumbing 101


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

I don't believe theres actually a code reference that pertains to it, air flow isn't going to be negatively impacted by the position of the tee. I suppose that you could argue that as rainwater comes down the walls of vertical pipe some could splash into an upside down tee and wash it down but that seems like a bit of a stretch. I've always just put them in upside down because to me it just looks right. I would like to throw out a big:thumbup: for taking the time to check on something you weren't sure about instead of the always enjoyable, "because I say so" routine.


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## Pipe Dreams (Feb 10, 2011)

And as a journeyman I would expect you to be able to respond to his statement with something other than "it's how I was shown". There's no new trick to installing a TY in the right direction.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Never mind I was thinking regular tees, I still don't think it would affect airflow on a TY but it would look goofy as heck.


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## Pipe Dreams (Feb 10, 2011)

bartnc37 said:


> I don't believe theres actually a code reference that pertains to it, air flow isn't going to be negatively impacted by the position of the tee. I suppose that you could argue that as rainwater comes down the walls of vertical pipe some could splash into an upside down tee and wash it down but that seems like a bit of a stretch. I've always just put them in upside down because to me it just looks right. I would like to throw out a big:thumbup: for taking the time to check on something you weren't sure about instead of the always enjoyable, "because I say so" routine.


Common sense would tell me that the path of least resistance is better. I'd be willing to bet that air flow is indeed negatively impacted by the improper installation of a TY.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Condensation will follow the sweep back to the waste with little chance of becoming clogged.


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

LOL.. A regular tee .. up here in Canada we only use them on Vacuum systems .. all we have for drainage and venting are ty's and wye's of course .. And no he does not flip them in drainage ... that he would have to tare out ( cuz it's wrong ) and don't worry friend i had more to say about the subject other than " because it's how I was shown " I went into air flow and lookin cool and professionalism .. and making something look neat and correct .. 

But it all falls down to If there is no code reason behind it .. next time do it my way ( this time it can stay )after all it is my name on the ticket.


Lifer...


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## Pipe Dreams (Feb 10, 2011)

Lifer said:


> LOL.. A regular tee .. up here in Canada we only use them on Vacuum systems .. all we have for drainage and venting are ty's and wye's of course .. And no he does not flip them in drainage ... that he would have to tare out ( cuz it's wrong ) and don't worry friend i had more to say about the subject other than " because it's how I was shown " I went into air flow and lookin cool and professionalism .. and making something look neat and correct ..
> 
> But it all falls down to If there is no code reason behind it .. next time do it my way ( this time it can stay )after all it is my name on the ticket.
> 
> ...


Looking cool is the most important part of course. :cool2:


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## Dun' Right (Sep 27, 2010)

Has to go with the flow. Any rain water that comes down that vent pipe needs to drain somehow....:blink:


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## Dun' Right (Sep 27, 2010)

What really sucks, is when you are tying into a "capped for future use" vent, and you cut into it, and 5 gallons of rain water comes dumping out. It'll only happen once to you....lol haha I've started drilling a small hole in the cap before I cut it, to let the water slowly drain out into a bucket vs. all over everything and everywhere. It might be rain water, but stagnant at best. haha


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

Dun' Right said:


> Has to go with the flow. Any rain water that comes down that vent pipe needs to drain somehow....:blink:


With the flow of what .. the falling water that may get in there or the gas flowing out on a regular basis .. this is my apprentices thought as well but if there is a TY in the line it would be leading to a 90* fitting going down ... So any water that did get in there could go out the 90* and into the drainage system .. 

Our code states no depressions where water will gather.. ( belly's or running traps , to go underthings ) .. 


Lifer...


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## Dun' Right (Sep 27, 2010)

Lifer said:


> With the flow of what .. the falling water that may get in there or the gas flowing out on a regular basis .. this is my apprentices thought as well but if there is a TY in the line it would be leading to a 90* fitting going down ... So any water that did get in there could go out the 90* and into the drainage system ..
> 
> Our code states no depressions where water will gather.. ( belly's or running traps , to go underthings ) ..
> 
> ...



Tee drain -swoop down
Tee vent- swoop up. 

My code says the same thing pretty much.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Yes, TY's are installed in correct orientation according to good plumbing practice. It is not in the body of the code here that I could find, but a horizontal vent connection to a branch or stack vent will have the sweep coming from the horiz, UP the vertical.

Stick to your guns Lifer...

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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

Don't mean to be ignorant, but what the hell is a TY?


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

504Plumber said:


> Don't mean to be ignorant, but what the hell is a TY?


It's what you wear with a soot....


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## UALocal1Plumber (May 13, 2009)

The code does require that the vent shall be pitched back towards the point of use by gravity... I would say that the fitting orientation matters. Besides, every code inspector I've seen has required that the fittings be oriented properly (upside down on venting), and I've seen them knock back inspections for it a few times.

I've abused the **** out of apprentices for a lot less than telling me that I'm picky about my work habits. You run the show and if the guy doesn't like it he can always go home.

Keith


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Put them in any damy way you want. The code does not address the issue.


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## Eric (Jan 10, 2011)

504Plumber said:


> Don't mean to be ignorant, but what the hell is a TY?


another name for a sanitary tee.


In the MA state plumbing code:
"All vent and branch vent pipes shall be uniformly graded in accordance with 248 CMR 10.05(2) and connected as to drain back to a soil or waste pipe by gravity".


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Eric said:


> In the MA state plumbing code:
> "All vent and branch vent pipes shall be uniformly graded in accordance with 248 CMR 10.05(2) and connected as to drain back to a soil or waste pipe by gravity".


I install them upside down in vents because.... Well Because... Well Because...
That's just how it's done...
And it was the way I was taught....

But tell me how that quoted Mass Code section has anything to do with it...
The pipe will still be graded and drain....:whistling2:

I thinks NHMaster is right...
I'm not finding anything...
So it's just because thats the way its done...


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

I use vent tees, they have no sweep.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

The notion that the tee's orientation would have anything to do with air flow is ridiculous. Do you have any idea how much air pressure or vacuum would have to be in play in an 1 1/2 pipe for either to make any difference :laughing: I always put them in so's they look good :thumbsup:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> The notion that the tee's orientation would have anything to do with air flow is ridiculous. Do you have any idea how much air pressure or vacuum would have to be in play in an 1 1/2 pipe for either to make any difference :laughing: I always put them in so's they look good :thumbsup:


How do you mean "look good" NH? do you teach your students to put them sweeping up on a vent connection?

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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

sweeping onwards and upwards ever higher :thumbsup:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> The notion that the tee's orientation would have anything to do with air flow is ridiculous. Do you have any idea how much air pressure or vacuum would have to be in play in an 1 1/2 pipe for either to make any difference :laughing: I always put them in so's they look good :thumbsup:


 
The vent system also drains rain water

Air flows through the VENT pipe 

ya, a tees orientation has nothing to do with nothing in a vent system


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

You really think that the direction of the tee will keep water from flowing back to drain? Really? Are you sure? Shall I set up another test ? :laughing:

One of these days I'm putting all the clips together to produce Plumbing Mythbusters


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> You really think that the direction of the tee will keep water from flowing back to drain?NO Really?YES Are you sure?YES Shall I set up another test ? Thats youre choice:laughing:
> 
> One of these days I'm putting all the clips together to produce Plumbing Mythbusters -Id watch it


 
so the only reason you install the tee upside down is for looks? :blink:


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## Dun' Right (Sep 27, 2010)

GREENPLUM said:


> so the only reason you install the tee upside down is for looks? :blink:


If the inspector ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. Once an inspector wants something done one way, that's the way I keep doing it.


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

Lookin good to me ....in venting , is upside down. Because I said so.


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## Dmaz (Jan 11, 2011)

I was told it's good practice. If you get it inspected and the inspector sees your TYs the wrong way, he's gonna look harder for mistakes. The better something looks before inspection the more likely it is the inspector will let minor things slide.


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

Eric said:


> another name for a sanitary tee.
> 
> 
> In the MA state plumbing code:
> "All vent and branch vent pipes shall be uniformly graded in accordance with 248 CMR 10.05(2) and connected as to drain back to a soil or waste pipe by gravity".


A Tee-Wye is
a wye you would stuff a street 45 into in order to have a tee fitting.
We call them "combos' " as in combination fitting.
A sanitary tee can be thought of the same same,sweep-wise,as a short pattern 90.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Mpls Jay said:


> A Tee-Wye is
> a wye you would stuff a street 45 into in order to have a tee fitting.
> We call them "combos' " as in combination fitting.
> A sanitary tee can be thought of the same same,sweep-wise,as a short pattern 90.


We do not have combo fittings here. A San tee and a TY are one and the same. I have heard of vent tees that are just straight tees but I've never held one in my hands.

If you jam a street 45 into a wye I'd call it a wye with a street 45 jammed in it... :jester:

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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> so the only reason you install the tee upside down is for looks? :blink:


 
Pretty much, yup. Same reason I keep all my hangers in a straight line I guess, though with PEX I'm not sure why I bother :thumbsup:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Mpls Jay said:


> A Tee-Wye is
> a wye you would stuff a street 45 into in order to have a tee fitting.
> We call them "combos' " as in combination fitting.
> A sanitary tee can be thought of the same same,sweep-wise,as a short pattern 90.


Round these parts we call a wye and 1/8 bend a long sweep. For some reason combo never caught on around here. Everyone else in the country they do. Here San-Tee and Tee Wye are the same thing.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Round these parts we call a wye and 1/8 bend a long sweep. For some reason combo never caught on around here. Everyone else in the country they do. Here San-Tee and Tee Wye are the same thing.


Guess that's why TY never clicked for me, down here that would be making a combo because you forgot to buy one or the jackass at the supply house decided to re-design what we do.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Can't even buy combo's areound here. The supply houses don't carry them, they are special order.


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

Not that anybody probably cares but, around here we call the one on the left a "ty "and the one on the right a "Boston ty" don't know why


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

liquidplumber said:


> Not that anybody probably cares but, around here we call the one on the left a "ty "and the one on the right a "Boston ty" don't know why


Just like what are commonly known as double apartment waste fittings... We call em Toronto fittings. 

Why you ask? So did I.
"cuz they use em in Toronto all the time..."

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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

First to post a picture of a cottage tee wins a prize :thumbsup:

BTW a California Sweep is where you melt and bend the pipe around a corner, no fitting required :laughing:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

The one on the right is a combo, the sweep part cannot be use horizontally because of hydraulic grade.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Do I win?!?

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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

liquidplumber said:


> Not that anybody probably cares but, around here we call the one on the left a "ty "and the one on the right a "Boston ty" don't know why


Looking at the picture, it's pretty clear to me why it's called a boston TY. It comes with a pack of smokes! :thumbup:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

liquidplumber said:


> Not that anybody probably cares but, around here we call the one on the left a "ty "and the one on the right a "Boston ty" don't know why


 WHAT ??? We call the one on the left a sanitary tee ,, one on the right is a Twye . Or longturn twye .


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## Eric (Jan 10, 2011)

It's funny how across the country how the name of fittings change like this. It's all good, but when you travel alittle away from your normal supply houses and they look like you have 2-heads askin for what you know it as.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Close but no ceeeeeeeegar


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

we call a 4x4x4x4x2x2 fitting an Atlanta Tee,

isnt that interesting....


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

How 'bout a frog eye tee?

And NH, I just threw out a box of what we called cottage tee's.

3x3x3x1 1/2 iirc.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

they also make cottage wye's with a LH and RH inlet


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

i have some st tee's layin around, they have got me outta some trouble b4

http://www.lascofittings.com/Products/PriceLists/11.5.05/DWVPrice.pdf


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

And the winner is..................... Greenplumb by a nose.:thumbsup:


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## Eric (Jan 10, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> they also make cottage wye's with a LH and RH inlet


Thats probably a $300.00 fitting today.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> i have some st tee's layin around, they have got me outta some trouble b4
> 
> http://www.lascofittings.com/Products/PriceLists/11.5.05/DWVPrice.pdf


 I have afew myself . GREAT for tight tub drains and when the counter top guy tells customers ," U no need plumber ! Me and nacho put you really deep sink and hook up plumbing "


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> The one on the right is a combo, the sweep part cannot be use horizontally because of hydraulic grade.


By horizontal you are talking about not laying it on it's side? If so, what??? That's all we run down here on a flat.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Eric said:


> Thats probably a $300.00 fitting today.


its not as much as you might think :laughing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-INLET-TEE-N...1410?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c58d55e2


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## UALocal1Plumber (May 13, 2009)

We call bostons long turn tee wyes here in NYC. . . the tyler/charlotte books call them combination y and 1/8 bends, so to be a jerk I refer to them as the book does.

Keith


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

You people sure do talk funny :blink:

The one on the left is an owl's eye. The one on the right is an estabrook


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

The one on the left is a "Frog's eye", the one on the right is a "Wisconsin".


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> The one on the left is a "Frog's eye", the one on the right is a "Wisconsin".


That's what I was referring to as a frog eye tee.


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## UALocal1Plumber (May 13, 2009)

What the hell is a frog's eye used for?

Keith


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

UALocal1Plumber said:


> What the hell is a frog's eye used for?
> 
> 
> 
> Keith


I used them mainly for BTB lav's on a 4" stack.

At the time under UPC, we could not use san. Crosses or san. tap crosses.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> The one on the left is a "Frog's eye", the one on the right is a "Wisconsin".


 
I always wondered why Texans called them "Wisconsin's" what do they call them in wisconsin.


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## danfan13 (Mar 31, 2011)

In the Florida Plumbing Code 2007 

Section 905

905.2 Grade States:

_*All vent and branch vent pipes shall be so graded and connected as to drain back to the drainage pipe by gravity.*_

This leaves only one way to install the tee's and Ty's according to this code and that is upside down, period!

Multifamily Plumbing Specialist
www.dpmplum.com


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

danfan13 said:


> In the Florida Plumbing Code 2007
> 
> Section 905
> 
> ...


So you are saying that if they are installed right side up the water will not drain back? Hmmmmmmmmm........:whistling2:


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