# Their ought to be a special place in hell for Delta faucet designers......



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Worked my ass off this week,,,, longest week in over a year.., 
then put a water softener in this morning....it went well

then I get a call from an old customer telling me his delta kitchen faucet is clogged up
and no water will come out....... First thing I think is the water softener has blown out
and clogged up his house....

I get there to find a 400 dollar Delta kitchen faucet with that new ceranamic dialmond disk
cartridge all clogged up with water softener beads...... Then I find the faucet itself is clogged
up totally up to the areator .... These Areators will not come out without a special sized tool that of course
you are not gonna find on a satruday afternoon at 3.00... 

so now you got to carry around with you special little crappy plastic faucet tools to take apart all these special
artsy-fartsy sized faucets ,,, and every brand needs a different tool to match the faucet.....

A few months ago I fought a battle with a double bowl sink with clogged up areators.... they would not come aprat
and this was a bed and breakfast with company coming......
I took a blow torch and heated up a screwdriver red hot to melt out the plastic areator from 
an American Standard faucet to get it to finally spit out some dirt and flow correctly 👿 👿

Today I end up having to shut off his faucet underneath and make a loop from hot to cold because the stops would not
turn off completely , i used a dishwasher supply line braided hose to make this loop.....

I was glad I had that in my truck or I might have
gone totally postal

The 400 faucet is DOA and I told them to go out and buy
something cheaper like Moen and we would put it in on Monday...... 

I fought this piece of crap for a good hour before losing my cool and throwing in the towell...
their should be a special place in hell for the cocksuc/er who designed this faucet..

this will become problematic as time goes on, as most of these faucets will lime up and will
be impossible to clear out the sediment built up in them., So, if you change out a water heater
you could get blamed for sediment ruining some of these types of faucets.....

..


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

8” spread to boot! I have more problems with Kohler faucets than delta style.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Those special aerators do suck, that's why I've kept a tool from each brand when installing multiple of them in homes. But if you don't have one of the tools handy, most will usually come out with a small flat head screwdriver placed in one of the slots the special tool engages and give a few light taps.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

chonkie said:


> Those special aerators do suck, that's why I've kept a tool from each brand when installing multiple of them in homes. But if you don't have one of the tools handy, most will usually come out with a small flat head screwdriver placed in one of the slots the special tool engages and give a few light taps.



Well, I gouged the crap out of my hand attempting to get that spindle to move
with a frigging screwdriver and gave up .... ended up breaking it
.... and its only about 3 years old
and not ancient yet.....


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

Not that this will help now but those stupid little blue tools that come with the faucet have a clip molded into the handle to you can snap it onto the plastic supply line. If that thing gets into the hands of the home owner it’s as good as gone.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Mark
I feel your pain.
Reading your post reminds me of the Delta touchless faucet I installed a few months ago for a friend. If he hadn't been there to assist, I'd still be under that sink fighting with it. Shi*ty design with too many stiff poly tubes going through the sink top in close proximity, especially when one in particular gets too close to the metal anchor bolt and the frickin thing won't work properly.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Plumbus said:


> Mark
> I feel your pain.
> Reading your post reminds me of the Delta touchless faucet I installed a few months ago for a friend. If he hadn't been there to assist, I'd still be under that sink fighting with it. Shi*ty design with too many stiff poly tubes going through the sink top in close proximity, especially when one in particular gets too close to the metal anchor bolt and the frickin thing won't work properly.



we just had a delta faucet flood out a customers house this summer,, the contractor that installed the 
special faucet cut the poly lines off instead of knotting them up under the sink and the nut and ferrull blew off
sometime in the night... 2 inches of water went out on a walnut flooring that stretched the length of the home

I told them to get the insurance company involved and show them the faucet, but she actually wanted me to 
re-install the water line into the stop.... 
I told her she was nuts and I would not touch it....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Sstratton6175 said:


> Not that this will help now but those stupid little blue tools that come with the faucet have a clip molded into the handle to you can snap it onto the plastic supply line. If that thing gets into the hands of the home owner it’s as good as gone.
> View attachment 127412


That is a pretty little tool to fit some of the delta faucets....I doubt it fits all of them.... 
I honestly dont think any of them will actually work to get out that areator
after 10 years passes and they are so limed up in our mid-west crappy water


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

chonkie said:


> Those special aerators do suck, that's why I've kept a tool from each brand............





Sstratton6175 said:


> Not that this will help now but those stupid little blue tools that come with the faucet have a clip molded into the handle to you can snap it onto the plastic supply line..................





Master Mark said:


> That is a pretty little tool to fit some of the delta faucets....I doubt it fits all of them....
> .................



You can buy the set of 4 common ones from neoperl. There are 11 or 12 in all but you'll rarely need the others. I chose to buy a set of the common tools and aerator inserts.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Geeezzzz.......

Get the proper tools......


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

The supply lines are pex and can be cut. They even give you the plastic ferrules. 

It’s a leakproof connection that anyone can make......


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> The supply lines are pex and can be cut. They even give you the plastic ferrules.
> 
> It’s a leakproof connection that anyone can make......



HAHHAHAHAAAA

Clearly you haven't done that one more than a couple times. We have a thread on here somewhere where we recount the times they've blown off on us and how it was the last time we cut them.

For our company it was a total house reno. Installed three faucets with those supply lines. One of them blew a month after the homeowner moved in. We shut the water off to the other two and said we wanted to replace them with new faucets. The homeowner didn't want that because those models were no longer available. We got an agreement signed that we weren't liable if they failed.

You always loop the excess supply line and never cut off the factory connections. YOU will be held liable if you cut them and they blow. Even if they have pedestal sinks we loop them and tell them to live with it or buy quality faucets.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> .............It’s a leakproof connection that anyone can make......


The supply lines undergo creep and slowly slip out of the ferrule.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

RichardBull said:


> The supply lines are pex and can be cut. They even give you the plastic ferrules.
> 
> It’s a leakproof connection that anyone can make......


Yea, you go ahead and trust the Delta pex lines.... 
I wont chance it, and the customer I am talking about
probably had 30k worth of damage throughout the whole
first floor... 

Not on my dime--- but you can risk it if you want to


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

skoronesa said:


> You can buy the set of 4 common ones from neoperl. There are 11 or 12 in all but you'll rarely need the others. I chose to buy a set of the common tools and aerator inserts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I will look into them tonight... I wont need them again for a few years 
and I probably wont have the bastard size I need..... 
Also have you noticed how hard it is to re-thread those areators back into 
the faucet without cross threading them???


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

RichardBull said:


> a leakproof connection that anyone can make......


That's sharkbite kinda talk and I've seen plenty of those fail. I've also seen several Delrin ferrule connections fail due to improper installation.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

I’ve installed hundreds and never had one fail. Delrin ferrules have been used for years without issue with pex and even polybutylene supply lines. 

Maybe you guys just don’t install it properly if you’re having problems. How else do you explain me not having any trouble ? For 30 years......

Lol ! ✌🤷‍♂️👍


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

hewhodigsholes said:


> That's sharkbite kinda talk and I've seen plenty of those fail. I've also seen several Delrin ferrule connections fail due to improper installation.


Failure due to improper installation.......

You said it yourself. Thank you

What does sharkbites have to do with a delrin ferrule ? “ talk “ ????


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Master Mark said:


> I will look into them tonight... I wont need them again for a few years
> and I probably wont have the bastard size I need.....
> Also have you noticed how hard it is to re-thread those areators back into
> the faucet without cross threading them???


No, they thread in just fine with the right tool.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> The supply lines undergo creep and slowly slip out of the ferrule.


What ? Creep on a tightened ferrule supply line ? That’s a new one. I’ve installed thousands....literally. 

Hundreds upon hundreds of delta with built in pex lines that in cut to fit snd use the delrin ferrule.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> HAHHAHAHAAAA
> 
> Clearly you haven't done that one more than a couple times. We have a thread on here somewhere where we recount the times they've blown off on us and how it was the last time we cut them.
> 
> ...


Clearly you have no idea who your talking to. 

I do several a day sometimes, I install 25-50 delrin ferrules a week. Jones Stephens 3/8" x 12" PEX Tank Supply Tubes (3/8" OD)

I’ve literally never had one leak. Of course they’ve all been installed correctly.

I also buy 3/8” od pex by the 60’ roll and use it for ice maker and dishwasher supply lines. Never had it leak......


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

RichardBull said:


> Failure due to improper installation.......
> 
> You said it yourself. Thank you
> 
> What does sharkbites have to do with a delrin ferrule ? “ talk “ ????


You specifically claimed that it was a "leakproof" connection that "anybody can make." Sounds an awful lot like the sharkbite marketing spiel. I don't doubt your experience, nor am I questioning your abilities. But neither one negates my and others experience, which tells us that those types of connections can and do leak. Anyone with 30 years experience in the field should know that nothing is foolproof and sometimes schit just doesn't work as it should.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> Clearly you have no idea who your talking to.
> 
> I do several a day sometimes, I install 25-50 delrin ferrules a week.
> ..................


Ok, so you're one of the few who can ALWAYS do it properly. For us it's not worth it. Doesn't matter if it's material or user failure, it's common enough that it's not worth the risk for us.

And plastic "creep" is a real thing, it's a proper term. Plastics like polyethylene and teflon are especially subject to it.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

hewhodigsholes said:


> You specifically claimed that it was a "leakproof" connection that "anybody can make." Sounds an awful lot like the sharkbite marketing spiel. I don't doubt your experience, nor am I questioning your abilities. But neither one negates my and others experience, which tells us that those types of connections can and do leak. Anyone with 30 years experience in the field should know that nothing is foolproof and sometimes schit just doesn't work as it should.


It is leakproof when it’s installed properly. 

I’ve never installed one properly that’s leaked. Never......

Same as a solder joint that’s done properly, it doesn’t leak.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> Ok, so you're one of the few who can ALWAYS do it properly. For us it's not worth it. Doesn't matter if it's material or user failure, it's common enough that it's not worth the risk for us.
> 
> And plastic "creep" is a real thing, it's a proper term. Plastics like polyethylene and teflon are especially subject to it.


Make no mistake, it’s user error if it leaks.

No such thing as a pex line creeping back through a properly tightened ferrule. The industry and my experience for 30+ years tells me this.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Riddle me this. 

What’s your best method to connect 3/8” od pex tubing ? 

Do you walk away from the job ? Do you use a push fit ? 

I’m waiting.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> Riddle me this.
> 
> What’s your best method to connect 3/8” od pex tubing ?
> 
> ...


I don't use pex tubing that ain't a crimped connection. If I needed 3/8" run it would either be a pre-made 3/8" stainless braid or copper tubing. We run 1/4" copper for ice-maker lines.

The only plastic tubing(not crimp pex) I've run was a couple R.O. systems that came with 1/4" and used push-fit parker fitings.


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

RichardBull said:


> Riddle me this.
> 
> What’s your best method to connect 3/8” od pex tubing ?
> 
> ...


I've done Delrin with and without stiffeners, John Guest fittings, and SS and copper crimp rings. I make it work unless its a no-name POS from Wayfair/Amazon/IKEA/wherever that has sloppy tolerances and can't be made to work.

Again, no issue with the way you do it. If it works for you, great.

My issue is the "it's never happened to me so it can't happen, and anyone it has happened to did it wrong" attitude. Have you never gotten a bad part or fitting? Or had something slip during install that only showed up when you turned the water back on? Or do those not count against your perfect record?


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

hewhodigsholes said:


> I've done Delrin with and without stiffeners, John Guest fittings, and SS and copper crimp rings. I make it work unless its a no-name POS from Wayfair/Amazon/IKEA/wherever that has sloppy tolerances and can't be made to work.
> 
> Again, no issue with the way you do it. If it works for you, great.
> 
> My issue is the "it's never happened to me so it can't happen, and anyone it has happened to did it wrong" attitude. Have you never gotten a bad part or fitting? Or had something slip during install that only showed up when you turned the water back on? Or do those not count against your perfect record?


I rarely make mistakes. Mistakes can be made with any material so I’m not sure of your point.

my point is, if you install it correctly, it doesn’t leak.
Saying it’s risky to do so just isn’t true. I’ve done it for years without a problem.

An example would be a solder joint. If installed correctly it doesn’t leak. Can the installer make mistakes ? Well sure ! Hahaha !


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> I don't use pex tubing that ain't a crimped connection. If I needed 3/8" run it would either be a pre-made 3/8" stainless braid or copper tubing. We run 1/4" copper for ice-maker lines.
> 
> The only plastic tubing(not crimp pex) I've run was a couple R.O. systems that came with 1/4" and used push-fit parker fitings.


What if you needed to connect to existing pex 3/8” od tube ? 
You’d refuse to connect to it ?


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> What if you needed to connect to existing pex 3/8” od tube ?
> You’d refuse to connect to it ?


It's usually not 3/8" OD CTS pex that I find. It's usually Nylon which is much stiffer.

I have had occasions where I replace the whole line. I have the ferrules I saved from those delta faucets but I couldn't tell you where the stiffeners are on my van. I'd have to tell them we need to come back with connectors for them. It's really not an issue around here because none of the real plumbers use them. Only the guys who setup free standing water fountains use them.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> It's usually not 3/8" OD CTS pex that I find. It's usually Nylon which is much stiffer.
> 
> I have had occasions where I replace the whole line. I have the ferrules I saved from those delta faucets but I couldn't tell you where the stiffeners are on my van. I'd have to tell them we need to come back with connectors for them. It's really not an issue around here because none of the real plumbers use them. Only the guys who setup free standing water fountains use them.


You don’t need stiffeners with 3/8” od water supply line size pex, including Delta water supply lines built into the faucet.

Brasscraft even gives you a delrin ferrule in their pex supply stop box to use on a pex riser. It’s that common........


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> You don’t need stiffeners with 3/8” od water supply line size pex, including Delta water supply lines built into the faucet.
> 
> Brasscraft even gives you a delrin ferrule in their pex supply stop box to use on a pex riser. It’s that common........


Even if I agreed with cutting the lines it wouldn't matter. I have done it before, but that was before we had some blow off and some other local plumbing companies did too. Since then it's been company policy that we don't.

I've never had any blow off that I installed.

It's not an issue for me anyway because they're only found on cheap faucets and we don't install much delta because we're a kohler dealer. The only delta faucets I install are two handle utility sink faucets or two handle kitchen faucets. Both of which have 1/2" IP nipples.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Ok gotcha, but if I quit using everything I heard someone had a problem with.......I’d have to find another line of work. 

Have a great night. 👍


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> Ok gotcha, but if I quit using everything I heard someone had a problem with.......I’d have to find another line of work.
> 
> Have a great night. 👍


You do you man


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

RichardBull said:


> You don’t need stiffeners with 3/8” od water supply line size pex, including Delta water supply lines built into the faucet.
> 
> Brasscraft even gives you a delrin ferrule in their pex supply stop box to use on a pex riser. It’s that common........





skoronesa said:


> Even if I agreed with cutting the lines it wouldn't matter. I have done it before, but that was before we had some blow off and some other local plumbing companies did too. Since then it's been company policy that we don't.
> 
> I've never had any blow off that I installed.
> 
> It's not an issue for me anyway because they're only found on cheap faucets and we don't install much delta because we're a kohler dealer. The only delta faucets I install are two handle utility sink faucets or two handle kitchen faucets. Both of which have 1/2" IP nipples.


Better to be safe than sorry and totally screwed.

If you want to cut those lines, just be sure that your insurance is paid up with an 1 mil dollar umbrella policy
I will not work in condos any longer with more than two stories because
of getting named in a lawsuit over a delta faucet line blowing apart... years ago...
Someone else did the work but our truck was in the parking lot at the time so
somehow they just thought we were the culprits...... 
it did not cost us a dime except for the aggravation....

.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Master Mark said:


> Better to be safe than sorry and totally screwed.
> 
> If you want to cut those lines, just be sure that your insurance is paid up with an 1 mil dollar umbrella policy
> I will not work in condos any longer with more than two stories because
> ...


Im covered but it’s certainly not because a properly installed ferrule on a pex riser failing. It’s never happened and I’ve installed thousands.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

RichardBull said:


> Im covered but it’s certainly not because a properly installed ferrule on a pex riser failing. It’s never happened and I’ve installed thousands.


Hey, I am for you 100%.... better you than me...

as long as they last the year then I guess its on the homeowner..


I did get on amazon today and buy 2 complete kits of those areator tools
so I would not get into a jam again on a sat afternoon,,,, gonna put them
in a special spot in my truck so I dont lose any of them.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

RichardBull said:


> The supply lines are pex and can be cut. They even give you the plastic ferrules.
> 
> It’s a leakproof connection that anyone can make......



If they tell me on the phone they bought a delfa I tell them to get a moen and I'm not cutting the lines, they will pay me to wait to get another faucet if the longs lines don't fit. I refuse those clip on lav faucet lines, I've seen them leak and as soon as I touched it, they broke in pieces.









Delfa the new Official Cheap Brand


Delfa (mispronounced) is now officially a junk brand to me. It used to be good, just as good a Moen but now it's worse than the no name brands direct from China. I was reading about those super stiff flex lines and if you shortened them like they showed in their instruction some would pull off...




www.plumbingzone.com


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Tango said:


> If they tell me on the phone they bought a delfa I tell them to get a moen and I'm not cutting the lines, they will pay me to wait to get another faucet if the longs lines don't fit. I refuse those clip on lav faucet lines, I've seen them leak and as soon as I touched it, they broke in pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


3/8” od pex can be connected with plastic ferrules. It doesn’t leak...... I’ve done it for years. 

Deltas water lines are nothing but pex.....they didn’t invent it.

It’s nothing new......and as I’ve said, I’ve made the connections for years without one single issue.

This is hilarious !


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> You can buy the set of 4 common ones from neoperl. There are 11 or 12 in all but you'll rarely need the others. I chose to buy a set of the common tools and aerator inserts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn I have like a half dozen and none of them fit when I needed one. This is a biatch, now I'm not happy to know I need this many.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

RichardBull said:


> 3/8” od pex can be connected with plastic ferrules. It doesn’t leak...... I’ve done it for years.
> 
> Deltas water lines are nothing but pex.....they didn’t invent it.
> 
> ...


Laugh until you see one bust. Let's see if your insurance pays up. I prefer to make 100$ installing a moen than selling my house to pay for 100K in water damages by cutting delfa lines or installing a lav clip on faucet.


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

Tango said:


> If they tell me on the phone they bought a delfa I tell them to get a moen and I'm not cutting the lines, they will pay me to wait to get another faucet if the longs lines don't fit. I refuse those clip on lav faucet lines, I've seen them leak and as soon as I touched it, they broke in pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We recommend Delta faucets all the time, provided the customer buys from a supply house or direct from Delta. We also only recommend the older style 2 handle with the stems and rubber seats, because those can pretty much be rebuilt an infinite number of times and they take a standard braided supply line.

It's the stupid builders around here that sell the fancy single handle Deltas, probably for a rebate of some kind. They do look nice for awhile though.

If I were plumbing my house, I'd probably chose Delta or Moen. I love the quality of Wolverine Brass, but I haven't seen a style that I really like yet. My wife would probably love the fancy Grohe shower fixtures. Guess we'll cross that bridge when I get my jman license and we start building our house.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Tango said:


> Laugh until you see one bust. Let's see if your insurance pays up. I prefer to make 100$ installing a moen than selling my house to pay for 100K in water damages by cutting delfa lines of a lav clip on faucet.


Why wouldn’t my insurance pay ? Selling your house ? Do you have real insurance ? Lol !

What Delta model number has clip on water lines ? I’d like to see it....


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

Tango said:


> Laugh until you see one bust. Let's see if your insurance pays up. I prefer to make 100$ installing a moen than selling my house to pay for 100K in water damages by cutting delfa lines of a lav clip on faucet.


I seem to recall our property insurance company back at the conference center I worked at telling us that they paid out so many claims for plastic supply lines that they either charged a premium for sites with them or stopped covering them altogether. We quickly eliminated them everywhere except the Coke machines.


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

RichardBull said:


> Why wouldn’t my insurance pay ? Lol !


While I've never personally had to file an insurance claim on my work, the company I work for has and it is a royal PITA. The insurance company will do everything in it's power to keep from paying out. They work for their shareholders, not their insured. Basically you have to prove that you manufacturers guidelines and triple checked the water pressure and made sure everything was installed exactly to local codes.

Kinda difficult to do when the HO wants a shiny new kitchen faucet and countertop, but doesn't want to shell out $500 for a PRV.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

RichardBull said:


> Why wouldn’t my insurance pay ? Selling your house ? Do you have real insurance ? Lol !
> 
> What Delta model number has clip on water lines ? I’d like to see it....


There's so many insurance claims for water damage that many contractors can't get insurance. It's a big problem because if you don't have insurance you are not allowed to contract. YOU CAN"T WORK! The association is pleading the insurances and I bet it will go to the supreme court but until many years from now it's a $hit show.

Insurance don't have to pay, they have fine print in documents you've never seen and spin their legalese any way they want to decline you. It's up to the customer(me) to bring them to court to prove you are right. By that you need lab testing, hiring engineers and obviously a bunch of lawyers. How are you going to pay for all that to sue your insurance and also pay for the lawsuit from the customer's insurance or the customer themselves?


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

hewhodigsholes said:


> While I've never personally had to file an insurance claim on my work, the company I work for has and it is a royal PITA. The insurance company will do everything in it's power to keep from paying out. They work for their shareholders, not their insured. Basically you have to prove that you manufacturers guidelines and triple checked the water pressure and made sure everything was installed exactly to local codes.
> 
> Kinda difficult to do when the HO wants a shiny new kitchen faucet and countertop, but doesn't want to shell out $500 for a PRV.


I don’t know where you’re getting your info.

I’m Insured and all I have to do is call my insurance company if I’ve caused damage and they send an adjuster out to see the damage.

I don’t have to prove anything.

I have Auto Owners Commercial General liability policy.
There is no deductible.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Tango said:


> There's so many insurance claims for water damage that many contractors can't get insurance. It's a big problem because if you don't have insurance you are not allowed to contract. YOU CAN"T WORK! The association is pleading the insurances and I bet it will go to the supreme court but until many years from now it's a $hit show.
> 
> Insurance don't have to pay, they have fine print in documents you've never seen and spin their legalese any way they want to decline you. It's up to the customer(me) to bring them to court to prove you are right. By that you need lab testing, hiring engineers and obviously a bunch of lawyers. How are you going to pay for all that to sue your insurance and also pay for the lawsuit from the customer's insurance or the customer themselves?


You need to find a new insurance company.

You’re having problems that plumbers with Auto Owners Insurance do not have.

Simple as that.


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

RichardBull said:


> I don’t know where you’re getting your info.
> 
> I’m Insured and all I have to do is call my insurance company if I’ve caused damage and they send an adjuster out to see the damage.
> 
> ...


Then you have been exceptionally lucky in both plumbing installs and choice of insurance companies.

Again, _*I have no issue with the way you choose to run your business, *_and I'm not trying to prove your methods wrong. I just find it suspicious that someone with over 30 years in the field insists that there is a foolproof way to do something with a zero percent failure rate.

Are you new construction by chance?


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

hewhodigsholes said:


> Then you have been exceptionally lucky in both plumbing installs and choice of insurance companies.
> 
> Again, _*I have no issue with the way you choose to run your business, *_and I'm not trying to prove your methods wrong. I just find it suspicious that someone with over 30 years in the field insists that there is a foolproof way to do something with a zero percent failure rate.
> 
> Are you new construction by chance?


I've been doing repair almost daily for over 30+ years.

Why do you think it’s suspicious for someone to actually put pipe together and it not leak ? It’s simple.....you’ve been lied to.

Do you realize that plumbers have been installing polybutylene supply risers and now PEX risers for 40 + years with delrin sleeve ferrules. Where have you been ?


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

I just talked to a branch manager of Southern Pipe and Supply. 

He says if he had to guess.....that they sell roughly a box of 100 pex water supplies every few days and have since he started working there 15 years ago.

That’s a lot of 3/8” od pex with ferrules being connected folks and that’s just ONE branch in my city.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Master Mark said:


> Worked my ass off this week,,,, longest week in over a year..,
> then put a water softener in this morning....it went well
> 
> then I get a call from an old customer telling me his delta kitchen faucet is clogged up
> ...


Why didn’t you repair or replace the stop valves that didn’t shut off completely ? Why use a dishwasher hose jumper ?


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

hewhodigsholes said:


> We recommend Delta faucets all the time, provided the customer buys from a supply house or direct from Delta. We also only recommend the older style 2 handle with the stems and rubber seats, because those can pretty much be rebuilt an infinite number of times and they take a standard braided supply line.
> ..............


There is a peerless model that is the old fashiond single handle delta ball. I suggest those if they want a cheap single handle. Otherwise I agree, the two handle deltas are great.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> I will look into them tonight... I wont need them again for a few years
> and I probably wont have the bastard size I need.....
> Also have you noticed how hard it is to re-thread those areators back into
> the faucet without cross threading them???


Yeppers,I cross the *****es every time lolololol


Master Mark said:


> I will look into them tonight... I wont need them again for a few years
> and I probably wont have the bastard size I need.....
> Also have you noticed how hard it is to re-thread those areators back into
> the faucet without cross threading them???


yeppers I cross the *****es every time lololololol


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

RichardBull said:


> Why wouldn’t my insurance pay ? Selling your house ? Do you have real insurance ? Lol !
> 
> What Delta model number has clip on water lines ? I’d like to see it....


Look at that picture I posted, THAT faucet has clips holding the waterlines together.... I took them off under 
the sink and attempted to blow out the mineral bed that was clogged up in it... and it had pressure up against 
that clip...
. I will take more pics today
when I tear it out that junk and install a moen.... just for fun..

I really dont care how you install your delta faucets,, and yes they DO make special ferruels that you can 
use to cut those lines...... I believe I have read somewhere in the installation box that they prefer you do not
cut them off...... 

again, I dont care how you do them.......because they are still junk faucets.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

RichardBull said:


> Why didn’t you repair or replace the stop valves that didn’t shut off completely ? Why use a dishwasher hose jumper ?


because it was 3.30 and I wanted to get the hell out of there and the two stops
were up high under the sink up behind the garbage disposal.......and were soldered 
onto copper nipples coming out of the wall about 1/4 of an inch....... so I was gonna
probably burn the place down trying to do this...... I was coming back anyway so why
make this into a bigger clusterfuc/ than it had to be???

I told the owner to spurge this weekend and go out to dinner
maybe even take his wife to white castle for supper

that is why.....


----------



## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

RichardBull said:


> Why do you think it’s suspicious for someone to actually put pipe together and it not leak ? It’s simple.....you’ve been lied to.


What I find suspicious is your claim that anyone that is having issues is doing it wrong. I don't doubt that you've been installing them for 30 years without issue. However, your perfect experience does not mean that everyone else is simply doing it incorrectly. Such a claim comes off as arrogant, even if it isn't meant to.



RichardBull said:


> Do you realize that plumbers have been installing polybutylene supply risers and now PEX risers for 40 + years with delrin sleeve ferrules. Where have you been ?


 Yes, I do. I never said the system was more prone to failure. But it can and does fail, whether due to incorrect installation or simply bad materials. Where have I been? Before I got into maintenance and plumbing, I put myself through mechanical engineering school. Any system has a given failure rate, and saying that it cannot fail is impossible.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

hewhodigsholes said:


> What I find suspicious is your claim that anyone that is having issues is doing it wrong. I don't doubt that you've been installing them for 30 years without issue. However, your perfect experience does not mean that everyone else is simply doing it incorrectly. Such a claim comes off as arrogant, even if it isn't meant to.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do. I never said the system was more prone to failure. But it can and does fail, whether due to incorrect installation or simply bad materials. Where have I been? Before I got into maintenance and plumbing, I put myself through mechanical engineering school. Any system has a given failure rate, and saying that it cannot fail is impossible.


I’m simply telling you that there is NO problem with using 3/8” pex risers. I’m also not the only one having 100% success. 
Our supply houses sell thousands of pex risers and have since I started plumbing 36 years ago. 
So I’m far from the only one. 

Are we all lucky or are you wrong ? 

It meets code and the manufactures are still currently producing it and it’s being used without issue when installed correctly.

what facts do you have other than installs that were not proper and failed ? I’m guessing none.....

Have you ever seen a properly soldered copper fitting leak due to error on the plumber ? NO !!!!! Same with the 3/8” pex risers and ferrules......I’ve never had one properly installed leak. In over 30 years....

you dont think that’s a testimony to it’s effectiveness???? And the fact that companies are still producing it and code accept it !!!!
Yet you’re telling me it’s risky ! Hahaha !!!!


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Master Mark said:


> because it was 3.30 and I wanted to get the hell out of there and the two stops
> were up high under the sink up behind the garbage disposal.......and were soldered
> onto copper nipples coming out of the wall about 1/4 of an inch....... so I was gonna
> probably burn the place down trying to do this...... I was coming back anyway so why
> ...


So the answer is “ you were in a hurry to go home “. 

I find that is when plumbers make the worst mistakes is when they’re in a hurry.
Here what should’ve happened on that service call.

1) The proper aerator wrench should’ve been used, if not on hand the job should’ve been rescheduled to bring the wrench.

2) Offered to replace the faucet before it was literally broken by trying to work on it without the proper tool.

Thats my take on it. Why tear it up?

If I had a plumber working for me that did that it would have to be his last day. 

Not trying to be rude but that looks like a person who had no clue worked on it.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> because it was 3.30 and I wanted to get the hell out of there and the two stops
> were up high under the sink up behind the garbage disposal.......and were soldered
> onto copper nipples coming out of the wall about 1/4 of an inch.................


A lot of times you can just change the stem so you end up with a new packing and washer. Usually the seat is fine. This assumes of course that they were standard modern stops.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

*@RichardBull *You should be more humble when discussing on forums. The way you wrote these last posts you are ruffling feathers. If it works for you great but don't condescend other members.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> *@RichardBull *You should be more humble when discussing on forums. The way you wrote these last posts you are ruffling feathers. If it works for you great but don't condescend other members.


let him speak how ever he wishes and alienate himself. When a forum has so few people like this one he isn't going to do himself any favours by speaking such a hard line. 

If we had a hundred members he might gain a couple followers who would cause trouble, but on here the inmates rule the prison!


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Tango said:


> *@RichardBull *You should be more humble when discussing on forums. The way you wrote these last posts you are ruffling feathers. If it works for you great but don't condescend other members.


What’s condescending is slamming a faucet manufacture for the plumbers lack of using the proper tools and then act like connecting pipe with age old technics is some how risky plumbing......and I’m lucky not to have had a problem.

I’m an expert, luck has little to do with it. My experience is not luck. To infer that it’s luck is very condescending

Its best not to have thin skin when you’re offering up your opinions based off limited experience or not following simple repair instructions givens to you by the manufacture. Delta even supplies the aerator wrench in the box !

Some need to be educated here, it’s obvious they have limited experience with the product then complaining about it.......


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> let him speak how ever he wishes and alienate himself. When a forum has so few people like this one he isn't going to do himself any favours by speaking such a hard line.
> 
> If we had a hundred members he might gain a couple followers who would cause trouble, but on here the inmates rule the prison!


I have years of experience. Some of these guys have a bad experienced based off improper installation then start spouting off about risky plumbing that is common in a lot of the country.

They need to get out of their little box snd open their ears snd they might learn something.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> What’s condescending is slamming a faucet manufacture for lack of using the proper tools and then act like connecting pipe with age old technics is some how risky plumbing......and I’m lucky not to have had a problem.
> 
> I’m an expert, luck has little to do with it.


These faucets are inferior. There are those who install them solely based on cost because they are only newcon plumbers with an eye on a 1 year warranty, they don't care about having to fix them or the longevity the customer might receive.

You say you're an expert. We are experts too. The three cases of these cut supply lines failing were not installed by hacks, but by trained professionals who have been plumbing for decades. How many supply lines have to burst before it's too many? 1 out of 100? 1 out of 100? It made the most sense for us to tell customers we wouldn't cut them.

As for separate pex or pb supply lines, they just aren't a thing here. I have taken out some that were very old and yes, they were fine. We prefer chromed copper, looks more professional.

These new aerators have thrown all of us for a loop. No one was just handed a bag of removal tools when the manufacturers started using these things. And hunting down each different tool is not easy. I have most of them but occasionally still use needle nose. And to say it isn't difficult to avoid cross threading fine, soft plastic threads is a joke. Hell, I've had difficulty mixing metal and plastic trap nuts/threads.

As for your attitude, good for you.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> I have years of experience. Some of these guys have a bad experienced based off improper installation then start spouting off about risky plumbing that is common in a lot of the country.
> 
> They need to get out of their little box snd open their ears snd they might learn something.


We have 8+ newcon plumbers who have been doing this for decades. When the third one had a supply line blow out we stopped cutting them. I don't know how many hundreds of those we had installed up until that point, but it left a bad taste in our mouth. We would install them, airtest, have no issues for months, and then one day BAM. 

A lot of our customers are seasonal so these would flood houses when no one was home.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Get you a piece of 3/8 pex with a plastic ferrule.
Assemble it.

Now test it.....

I have tested it to 250 psi for a month without a leak.
I have literally thousands of connections in service for the past 30+ years without a leak......


The pipe will fail before it pulls out of the ferrule.

Prove me wrong.....


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> We have 8+ newcon plumbers who have been doing this for decades. When the third one had a supply line blow out we stopped cutting them. I don't know how many hundreds of those we had installed up until that point, but it left a bad taste in our mouth. We would install them, airtest, have no issues for months, and then one day BAM.
> 
> A lot of our customers are seasonal so these would flood houses when no one was home.


The plumbers that had failures assembled it incorrectly.

Delta includes the aerator tool with the faucet. The tools can be purchased online.......or any supply house can order for you. 
I purchased a set made by neopearl. 

Cross threading is not an issue when you reinstall with the proper tool, have you ever used the proper tool ?

These Delta faucets are not cheap, they have a lifetime warranty that Delta will honor. It’s also what customers want.....

Thousands are being installed and a few guys from your company had trouble......

What’s that tell you......


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

I bet they’re not tightening it down all the way or they’re installing the ferrule backwards.....

then there’s the guy who lets the pipe slip out and the ferrule barely bites.....

All user error.

We used copper and chromed copper supply risers with cone washers when I first started. 
Ask me how many times I’ve seen the tubing slip out of the cone washer and flood a house...... 

I flared all mine, it never happened to me.

Point is that proper technics are required. Nothing is immune to improper installation. 

It’s easy to sit back and blame the product.....


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

skoronesa said:


> We have 8+ newcon plumbers who have been doing this for decades. When the third one had a supply line blow out we stopped cutting them. I don't know how many hundreds of those we had installed up until that point, but it left a bad taste in our mouth. We would install them, airtest, have no issues for months, and then one day BAM.
> 
> A lot of our customers are seasonal so these would flood houses when no one was home.


Who air tests a new house after installing the faucets ? 

Where and why are people doing this ?

Why would you mix plastic and metal tubular trap threads ? I can’t think of a good plumbing reason to do that.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

RichardBull said:


> Who air tests a new house after installing the faucets ?
> 
> Where and why are people doing this ?


After we had on blow we would test it to 100psi with air if the line pressure wasn't already at least that high. If it was that high we would install a prv.

It was just our guys being cautious after one blew. They didn't trust the mostly plastic faucets anyway.


----------



## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> You can buy the set of 4 common ones from neoperl. There are 11 or 12 in all but you'll rarely need the others. I chose to buy a set of the common tools and aerator inserts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ho Lee Schitt, I never realized there were so many. Even with the 4 so-called common ones, now that's 4 more parts that I have to keep on hand and in stock on the truck, small parts that are easily lost, to add to the myriad other small parts I need to keep. I hate planned obsolescence more than anyone, and this seems to me to be a move in that direction by just making it too damn complicated to keep up. I know that they get away with it because we all give in, but at some point you have to save your own sanity instead of shovelling schitt against the tide. You have to choose your battles. I predict that this is going to be just one more thing that I'm going to be recommending faucet replacement for, esp when finding one that is all limed up even if I do have a replacement, at 3:00 on Friday.


----------



## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

RichardBull said:


> Have you ever seen a properly soldered copper fitting leak


As a matter of fact, I have. On two separate occasions I have seen a properly prepared and heated sweat joint simply fail to take solder, then turn around simply melt when brazing was attempted with Sil-Phos. Once with a master and once with a jman, both with years of experience behind them. I doubt their technique was that wrong.

Both times the plumber said "Huh, that's odd" and cut back the copper until it took solder. Neither one owned a press tool at the time. Both told me it most likely was due to contaminants in the copper.

My point is this: there will always be that contaminated copper, microfractured cartridge, poorly machined threaded fitting, or Delrin sleeve that had just a bit too much UV exposure at some point. Sometimes schit just happens, and no amount of care or proper technique will stop it completely. 

Another example: I've installed hundreds, if not thousands of stainless braided supply lines. I haven't had one blow apart or leak on me. That doesn't mean that they don't fail because they definitely do _on occasion. _Bad rubber, bad threads, bad crimping, under/overtightened, whatever. Do what you can to mitigate the risks but nothing is 100% foolproof.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> .........now that's 4 more parts that I have to keep on hand and in stock on the truck, small parts that are easily lost........


*
Cantilever tool boxes and plano 3500 contianers.*


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

RichardBull said:


> What’s condescending is slamming a faucet manufacture for the plumbers lack of using the proper tools and then act like connecting pipe with age old technics is some how risky plumbing......and I’m lucky not to have had a problem.
> 
> I’m an expert, luck has little to do with it. My experience is not luck. To infer that it’s luck is very condescending
> 
> ...


its obvious that you are a legend in your own mind... a real alpha dog

perhaps you ought to be a moderator... 

I will just leave it at that.......


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

hewhodigsholes said:


> As a matter of fact, I have. On two separate occasions I have seen a properly prepared and heated sweat joint simply fail to take solder, then turn around simply melt when brazing was attempted with Sil-Phos. Once with a master and once with a jman, both with years of experience behind them. I doubt their technique was that wrong.
> 
> Both times the plumber said "Huh, that's odd" and cut back the copper until it took solder. Neither one owned a press tool at the time. Both told me it most likely was due to contaminants in the copper.
> 
> ...


Ok great.......I think we all agree detects can happen with most any product we use.

I’m not sure who said that defects in materials isn’t possible on this thread. 

What’s been said repeatedly is that cutting the pex supply lines that delta uses and using the ferrules that delta also gives you is “ risky “ and “ lucky “ that it hasn’t failed.

That’s simply false info......if you’ve had 3/8 pex blow out it’s because of user error.

Goodluck blaming copper, solder or flux for a leaking joint........send it to the lab and they’ll tell you user error. Post just ONE case where it wasn’t and was proven.

I’ve never had a bad solder joint that wasn’t 100% my fault, certainly not the materials. 36 years snd counting.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Master Mark said:


> its obvious that you are a legend in your own mind... a real alpha dog
> 
> perhaps you ought to be a moderator...
> 
> I will just leave it at that.......


Hey man .....you made a post of how you improperly tried to work on a faucet.

This is a professional forum......do you think a professional would try to work on a faucet without the right tool ?

What did you expect ? A pat on the back ? Dude you flat out ruined that faucet.......then documented it .......and now are butt hurt that I called you out on a pro plumbers forum.....

Wow! I guess I’m not from the everyone gets a trophy generation.

I guess I’ve came into a forum where everyone agrees because someone might get their feelings hurt.......so It’s more like fun or fantasy talk than real plumbing discussion about facts.

ok I get it.....

Ok I’ll start over.

You did great. You did exactly what any professional plumber would’ve done. I mean why would Delta make an aerator that takes a tool other than your channel locks....... I mean yeah, Deltas crap and they deserve to have that garbage you didn’t sell them break.

Hows that ? Can I be part of the club now ?


----------



## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

RichardBull said:


> So the answer is “ you were in a hurry to go home “.
> 
> I find that is when plumbers make the worst mistakes is when they’re in a hurry.
> Here what should’ve happened on that service call.
> ...


Have you ever worked for or with anyone else? Ever had a customer who was beatching about the price or didn't have much money so you were trying to just get the job done with what you had to work with? Ever have a boss or dispatcher, or customer who didn't want to hear that you have to come back just because you couldn't think outside the box and just get the job done? I know you don't make mistakes so I won't ask that, but it sounds like you haven't been plumbing for very long in the real world.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

On another note I did end up getting 2 sets of assorted tools from amazon today,,
just ordered them last night... probably never use them but now I have them just 
in case I get into a jam on a sat afternoon....


the faucet was clogged up with resin in the diverter tee underneath the sink and would not break loose even after I 
broke the areator out..... and flushed all the lines. the faucet was DOA..---soooo my bad ... 
I changed out the faucet today, installed a moen and the customer is happy...
and actually the only person who seems to have a--- throbbing hard on--- is you..... 

Ok, I get it...... **** happens to everyone except you..

when you want to act like a judgmental a/shole, all you really do is make 
everything combative and then people wont post things or ask simple questions or bring
up issues because some "dick " is waiting in the wings to give them a "stern lecture"...

think about it.


.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

goeswiththeflow said:


> Have you ever worked for or with anyone else? Ever had a customer who was beatching about the price or didn't have much money so you were trying to just get the job done with what you had to work with? Ever have a boss or dispatcher, or customer who didn't want to hear that you have to come back just because you couldn't think outside the box and just get the job done? I know you don't make mistakes so I won't ask that, but it sounds like you haven't been plumbing for very long in the real world.


I do not ruin faucets or fixtures because of 
“ time “ or “ the customers lack of money “ 

Now he has to not only go back......he has to replace the faucet ! Kinda silly not to just wait to get the proper tool. 

I do make mistakes but I strive to learn from them. I learned a long time ago to use the proper tool or go get in the truck snd get the proper tool.......or tell the customer you would rather not work on the faucet. 

Anything’s better than knowingly using the wrong tool then complaining when you break it !


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

goeswiththeflow said:


> Have you ever worked for or with anyone else? Ever had a customer who was beatching about the price or didn't have much money so you were trying to just get the job done with what you had to work with? Ever have a boss or dispatcher, or customer who didn't want to hear that you have to come back just because you couldn't think outside the box and just get the job done? I know you don't make mistakes so I won't ask that, but it sounds like you haven't been plumbing for very long in the real world.


you get that feeling too??.

I knew what the problem was before I got there ---water softener died and filled the pipes with resin..

I told the customer things might go south before I touched the faucet.. being clogged up with resin....
he was ok with it for me to attempt to get water flowing again..... And then the faucet died on the table
in my hands......

I did find out some good info here and amazon delivered 2
packs of a dozen different size areator tools...


....


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Master Mark said:


> On another note I did end up getting 2 sets of assorted tools from amazon today,,
> just ordered them last night... probably never use them but now I have them just
> in case I get into a jam on a sat afternoon....
> 
> ...


I’m sorry I hurt your feelings. 

I’m proud of you for buying the right tools to do the work.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

RichardBull said:


> I do not ruin faucets or fixtures because of
> “ time “ or “ the customers lack of money “
> 
> Now he has to not only go back......he has to replace the faucet ! Kinda silly not to just wait to get the proper tool.
> ...




Thank you for another stern lecture, all knowing one....


----------



## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

Since when did my wife start posting on here? Janet, honey, I'm glad that you're taking an interest in my job, but the same mentality is coming through as when you argue with me about other things. Go to bed honey. I'll be in shortly.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

goeswiththeflow said:


> Since when did my wife start posting on here? Janet, honey, I'm glad that you're taking an interest in my job, but the same mentality is coming through as when you argue with me about other things. Go to bed honey. I'll be in shortly.


I see you’re a 4th year apprentice. 

I’ve been a master since 1992 

Good luck to you.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Master Mark said:


> Thank you for another stern lecture, all knowing one....


When you get really really good you get things like this sent to you









Miley Cyrus would say.......”that’s pretty cool “🤭🤪✌


----------



## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

RichardBull said:


> I see you’re a 4th year apprentice.
> 
> I’ve been a master since 1992
> 
> Good luck to you.


In your state you can become a master plumber 1 year after being licensed?


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Logtec said:


> In your state you can become a master plumber 1 year after being licensed?


 No


----------



## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

RichardBull said:


> No



In your intro you said youve been in the trade 36 years, and 30 years licensed.
30 years ago it was 1991, you clam to have been a master since 1992.. 
so you’ve became a master one year after you were licensed?


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Logtec said:


> In your intro you said youve been in the trade 36 years, and 30 years licensed.
> 30 years ago it was 1991, so you’ve became a master one year after you were licensed?
> 
> View attachment 127486


You could at the time I took the masters test. 

You can’t now. Or you can but it has to be approved by the state board.

Good try ! Lmfao !


----------



## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

RichardBull said:


> You could at the time I took the masters test.
> 
> You can’t now. Or you can but it has to be approved by the state board.
> 
> Good try ! Lmfao !


sure.. 
smells like RichardBullsh-t to me.
so why don’t you let us know what state youre in, so the others can confirm that, if so I’ll walk away with my tail between my legs, and you win.

Nice free sticker,
It would prob be better if you were to brag about making a $$$ donation to support the site tho.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Logtec said:


> sure..
> so why don’t you let us know what state you are or we’re in, so the others can confirm that, if so I’ll walk away with my tail between my legs.
> 
> Nice free sticker,
> It would prob be better if you were to brag about making a cash donation to support the site tho.


Im in Alabama.....I’m an American. Proud too.
I assure you that I will NOT be making a donation to this site otter than my valuable time. I think that’s more than fair.

Here is a pic of an adapter that I use to test gas systems with. In the pic you can see my invoice book with our state plumbers examiners board seal sticker.......

the sticker is probably 15 years old......how long have you been plumbing again ?









So start tucking that tail......


----------



## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

RichardBull said:


> Im in Alabama.....I’m an American. Proud too.
> I assure you that I will NOT be making a donation to this site otter than my valuable time. I think that’s more than fair.
> 
> Here is a pic of an adapter that I use to test gas systems with. In the pic you can see my invoice book with our state plumbers examiners board seal sticker.......
> ...


Started my apprentice in mid 90’s, so you got me beat.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Logtec said:


> Started my apprentice in mid 90’s, so you got me beat.


Mr Dickhead has got everyone beat on this forum... 
for one thing he has got that pretty sticker.. 
so their no doubt about it.... 

So how come I have not gotten a pretty sticker too?? 
I am gonna have to complain to TANGO about this.... 

I started my apprenticeship in 73.... got my masters in 78??
got a masters in colorado in 82. but I let that one lapse.

Over the years I have /ucked up a few things along the course too.-- but rarely.
my motto is---- if I cant fix it , I will /uck it up so bad you will need
a new one.. and that is a promise I can keep.....😄😁😆




now----wait for it, wait for it...........a stern lecture from mr dickhead 
is coming any moment .....😆😆.


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## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Logtec said:


> Started my apprentice in mid 90’s, so you got me beat.





Master Mark said:


> Mr Dickhead has got everyone beat on this forum...
> for one thing he has got that pretty sticker..
> so their no doubt about it....
> 
> ...


You’re the best plumber I’ve ever seen and now your box truck truly will have everything with your new aerator wrenches.

Over the years it’s nice to see you’ve learned to use the correct tool for the job.

🤪😬✌


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Since it's only degenerating now it's going to be closed.


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