# cycle stop valves



## Mississippiplum

we use these valves all the time, i/we love these valves. the csv is an alternative to vfd based pumping systems, meaning that constant pressure is held on well systems, a constant speed pump can be installed in a constant pressure application using the csv, instead of the pump cycling causing a flucuation in pressure (pain in the arse when taking a shower or on an irrigation system because the spray radius is constanly changing every time the pump cycles) the pressure is held constant. uneven cycling can damage a pump and even when a proper pressure tank is picked out and the pump cycles evenly ware and tear is still put on the pump and distribution infrastructure, a smaller pressure tank can used when a csv is implamented, the csv also prevents dead heading of the pump, on smaller valves 1 gpm is let past the valve seat, and on larger valves 5 gpm, this allows the p-tank to fill up when no demand is present. pressure flucuations and bounce back can cause damge to piping and p-tanks, the csv eliminates this. i thought i would start this thread to provide information on the product incase anyone wants to use this product, also has anyone here ever used a csv? i do not work for the company that makes csv's :laughing: i just know alot about them cause i used them when i worked in the irrgation industry and now i use them with the plumbo-co i work for, so i figured it wouldnt hurt to educate yall on them, it might help someone. heres the link to the manurfacers website incase anyone wants to see what they look like or learn more about them. http://cyclestopvalves.com/index2.html











the csv we typicly use on a residential submerisible well pump, 24 gpm max on this one, but they make bigger vlaves that can handle flows in the thousands


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## Tommy plumber

Pretty decent product. Are they (the valves) reliable? I enjoyed the tutorial on their website. I'm a picture person.....


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## Mississippiplum

Tommy plumber said:


> Pretty decent product. Are they (the valves) reliable? I enjoyed the tutorial on their website. I'm a picture person.....


The valves are extremely reliable because there is no electronic parts or such in them, and because threres only a single moving part in them, I'm a picture person too.


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## CTs2p2

On a residential well system with a submersible pump, this takes place of the pressure switch or wires through it? I have not done much commercial plumbing and the outfit that i work for only has 2 maybe 3 residential clients that have constant pressure pumps and they are Franklin's with the big sub drive control boxes.. This little guy replaces all that? 

I tried to watch the animations from the link to better understand but they aren't wanting to load from my iPhone. I'll have to try once I get home.


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## Mxz--700

You and I agree on almost everything but this one. Read up about it and will definitely stick to VFD, Monodrives and the like. With VFD the pressure never goes down to a cut in, and it seems with these devices that you are almost deadheading the pump at low flows or creating unnecessary back pressure on the offset and well pipe. Some people have crappy 125 psi pipe for an offset and it seems this could be a problem. Don't know enough though so I really can't say for sure..... I'll stick to technology with this one! Jim


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## Mississippiplum

Mxz--700 said:


> You and I agree on almost everything but this one. Read up about it and will definitely stick to VFD, Monodrives and the like. With VFD the pressure never goes down to a cut in, and it seems with these devices that you are almost deadheading the pump at low flows or creating unnecessary back pressure on the offset and well pipe. Some people have crappy 125 psi pipe for an offset and it seems this could be a problem. Don't know enough though so I really can't say for sure..... I'll stick to technology with this one! Jim


Ive seen alot of drives fail. We install many of these cycle stop valves and never had call backs or any problems, one thing about these cycle stops is they act as mechanical soft starts and mechanical soft stops. And they actually save more energy then drives do. But we never install these valves if we don't know the condition of the piping that we can see. I installed one of these valves on my own house. But use what works for you. 

In some situations drives can be a better choice.


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## nhmaster3015

I'll jump on this one. Cycle stop valves are a crock and most of what is on that web site is misleading information with little or no actual facts to back any of the claims up. Cycle stop valves have been around for a very long time now. The concept is nothing new at all and you have to ask yourself why 99% if well and pump installers are not using this so called miracle valve? I'll tell you why. With a cycle stop valve in place any time someone cracks a faucet or runs any small amount of water which is pretty normal in most homes. Like getting a glass of water for instance. With the cycle stop valve the pump will run every time a faucet uses more than about a half a gallon of water. So where is this thing reducing cycle times? How about a full out draw on the system, say a couple of hoses running? Well, with a cycle stop valve the pump runs the entire time the hoses are running. With a standard tank system the pump also runs the entire time the hoses are running. The scam artists that promote this thing do so because probably 80% of well tank systems are installed using a tank that is too small for the pump which will cause problems with cycling but had the installer properly sized the tank a tank system will outperform a CSV any day of the week. Also try and find a single pump or tank manufacturer that endorses them or is offering them in their product lines. It's old and dated technology at best and a scam at worst.


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## Mississippiplum

If you look many pump and motor manurfactures cover the use of the valve on thier product, in their warranty. 

Cycling creates pressure surges that damage plumbing. Also not to mention those valves surpress bounceback, bounceback slams check valves shut and creates damaging pressure surges. I've Personly installed and serviced many of those valves and they are great IMO. I even have one on my own house. Alot of those valves are installed around here. And in quite a few commercial aplications.

one cycle refers to one cutin and cutoff the pump. It's better for the pump to constantly run then cycle.


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## nhmaster3015

Ok sounds good. Now do a side by side comparison of cycle times using a stop valve and a PROPERLY sized expansion tank. What you will find is that there is very little difference at all and many times the tank system will show far less cycles than the stop valve system will. Ask Carey to send you 3rd party, documented proof of performance. (good luck with that :laughing 
Barret has been manufacturing these things for many years, long before cycle stop got involved. They were and still are used extensively on irrigation systems where the pump RUNS ALMOST CONSTANTLY to provide a buffer against the possibility of cycling should outlet pressures fluctuate. In a residential application they are an expense that makes no sense. Better yet, give the boys at Goulds a call and they will gladly fill you in. Carey likes to go around telling everyone that pump manufacturers don't like them because they like selling pumps. That's an outright lie. But here's the real proof. I have had the same goulds 1/2hp 10 gpm submersible in my well for 34 years now with a Well X trol 202 tank that is just as old. 6 people in the house, no issues. 

Properly sized and properly installed a standard pump set will last for many years.


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## DesertOkie

From what I understand they work OK as long as you install them with plumbers putty.


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## plbgbiz

Mississippiplum said:


> ...It's better for the pump to constantly run then cycle.


What does that do to the electric bill while I'm at work and the pump is running?


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## Mississippiplum

You are correct about a properly sized tank. But there are many benefits of having constant pressure. 
Ex: in a irrigation system I have a head that is designed to discharge 5 gpm 45ft @ 40 psi. That's what the zones flow and coverage is based upon. Well with the pump cycling 40-60, etc. That coverage and flow will vary, that causes pressure problems on the zone, flow problems, and coverage problems. Well with a cycle stop or Vfd, the pressure can be adjusted to be held constant @ 40 psi. Nomore problems. Having constant pressure in a home is great, while taking a shower, the flow out of the shower head and Pattern never changes, etc. Pump cycling causes pressure surges that over time destroys plumbing. Alot of times when I service well systems, when the pump cycles off I can here the cv slam shut. Vfd's and csv's eliminate these problems. But I prefer csv's over Vfd's for the reasons I already stated above.


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## Mississippiplum

plbgbiz said:


> What does that do to the electric bill while I'm at work and the pump is running?


The pump only runs when there is a demand.


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## OldSchool

learn something new every day...

this is the first time I seen one of these valves.... I watched the video and I like what I see


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## RRRoger

*Cycle Stop Valves*

I will be putting a Cycle Stop Valve after my neighbors booster pump next week.
He has been having really bad water hammer since moving in.
Showers are a nightmare for him.
A larger booster pump aggravated the problem.
It is set to come on at 30 and to shut off at 50psi
It was the only one available after the 1hp one burned out,
and his family did not want to wait a week for the proper size.
It typically only runs for less than one minute
The old galvanized style 80 gal pressure tank (no air valve)
helps very little when in proper adjustment and not at all otherwise.

I will place the CSV1W after the pump
and before the pressure switch takeoff and gauge.
The pressure tank comes a foot or so after that off of a tee.
Then a hose bib screwed into the tee that goes to the house and yard.
I will let you know if/how it works.


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## rjbphd

Wheter u let us know or not, you're not a plumber and well pump specialist.. you should not be working on this system.


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## RRRoger

rjbphd said:


> Wheter u let us know or not, you're not a plumber and well pump specialist.. you should not be working on this system.


No, I am not a plumber nor a well specialist.
In fact, I hate working on indoor plumbing,
climbing thru attics and under houses.
I will leave that for you.

However, I have been a licensed contractor for many years.
I started working on & installing outdoor booster pumps in 1959, 
and have laid many miles of irrigation pipes (outdoor plumbing).
So, I am probably a lot more capable than most plumbers.
In fact I am currently reinstalling back flow prevention devices,
that a "licensed" plumber messed up, for a city near me.
The portion of this system I am working on is outdoors and above ground.

My interest in this forum has to do with the CSV and how it relates to water hammer and pump cycling.
So far I have found little knowledge from those with "hands on",
and if no one wants to be "helpful", I will avoid this forum.:furious:


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## rjbphd

RRRoger said:


> No, I am not a plumber nor a well specialist.
> In fact, I hate working on indoor plumbing,
> climbing thru attics and under houses.
> I will leave that for you.
> 
> However, I have been a licensed contractor for many years.
> I started working on & installing outdoor booster pumps in 1959,
> and have laid many miles of irrigation pipes (outdoor plumbing).
> So, I am probably a lot more capable than most plumbers.
> In fact I am currently reinstalling back flow prevention devices,
> that a "licensed" plumber messed up, for a city near me.
> The portion of this system I am working on is outdoors and above ground.
> 
> My interest in this forum has to do with the CSV and how it relates to water hammer and pump cycling.
> So far I have found little knowledge from those with "hands on",
> and if no one wants to be "helpful", I will avoid this forum.:furious:


Then do a proper introduction as per site request before you get all pi****y


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## Plumberman

RRRoger said:


> No, I am not a plumber nor a well specialist.
> In fact, I hate working on indoor plumbing,
> climbing thru attics and under houses.
> I will leave that for you.
> 
> However, I have been a licensed contractor for many years.
> I started working on & installing outdoor booster pumps in 1959,
> and have laid many miles of irrigation pipes (outdoor plumbing).
> So, I am probably a lot more capable than most plumbers.
> In fact I am currently reinstalling back flow prevention devices,
> that a "licensed" plumber messed up, for a city near me.
> The portion of this system I am working on is outdoors and above ground.
> 
> My interest in this forum has to do with the CSV and how it relates to water hammer and pump cycling.
> So far I have found little knowledge from those with "hands on",
> and if no one wants to be "helpful", I will avoid this forum.:furious:



Man it takes a genius to know that backflow devices are above ground..

You come in here with one post and demand "helpful" responses without posting an intro, then talk down to the plumbers here be because you think that running "miles of irrigation pipe" elevates you above us.

Landscape specialist is a skilled trade? Maybe in Cali, but not in these parts. I was a landscape specialist in high school working for cash...

Installing booster pumps, irrigation, and working on backflows is a drop in the bucket on what many of us here have put our hands on...


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## RW Plumbing

Running irrigation pipe is one step above pulling a garden hose off a hose reel and stringing it across the lawn. Around here the guys who run that stuff are either drunk, or just hopped a big fence to get here.

Do us a favor and don't touch stuff when you have no idea what you're doing. Also go piss up a rope.


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## RRRoger

*Pissing contest or helpful forum*

I still have not heard from someone who has actually installed a CSV,
besides Mississippiplum

Is there anyone else in this forum that has had "hands on", 
or does everything turn to hearsay and whining.

Let's talk about the subject!


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## RW Plumbing

RRRoger said:


> I still have not heard from someone who has actually installed a CSV,
> besides Mississippiplum
> 
> Is there anyone else in this forum that has had "hands on",
> or does everything turn to hearsay and whining.
> 
> Let's talk about the subject!


It's time for you to lose your attitude, or lose your log in information. No one needs the sally school girl act. Man up or be gone.


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## RRRoger

RW Plumbing said:


> It's time for you to lose your attitude, or lose your log in information. No one needs the sally school girl act. Man up or be gone.


Obviously this is a group I do not want part of.

I am gone!


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## rjbphd

RRRoger said:


> Obviously this is a group I do not want part of.
> 
> I am gone!


Byebye crybaby


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## plbgbiz

Geez, 

Something in the water today?

Mr. Notaplumber doesn't want to be part of our group? Yep, gonna lose a lot of sleep over that.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Installing backflows ?? For what city??? Sounds like a hack job all the way. Around here u need to be a plumber to install backflows


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