# Need help Please Floordrain issue



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm more of a residential plumber. I had a customer that is opening up a daycare in a stripmall of 3 suites. They have 2 handycap baths with floor drains. According to stay regulations they have to have a bathroom off the classroom for 3-4 year olds. Well the problem I'm wondering about is a floor drain required and does this bathroom have to be ADA as well? This customer wants to use a saniflo system to advoid busting up all the concrete and the new flooring they put down :whistling2: I guess they should of thought of that before putting the flooring down..

I called my local code officials yesterday and still haven't recieved a call back. Surprise surprise!! Heck called them last Oct to ask them why I have to armor flex my PVC drains coming through a concrete slab? PVC is not corrosive.. they still haven't called for that one yet. WORTHLESS!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Code here says floor drain is required for public washroom

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Here in IL you would if a masonary floor. 

Also, here dcfs has regs for bathrooms too. Most likely a primary toilet and lav set at height for children. 

That's here. I don't know about Indiana.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Code here says floor drain is required for public washroom
> 
> Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


But does it depend on number of fixtures in the room? i.e., would a single w.c. & single lav require one, or only if you add a second w/c or urinal?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

mccmech said:


> But does it depend on number of fixtures in the room? i.e., would a single w.c. & single lav require one, or only if you add a second w/c or urinal?


any public washroom


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Old School - That's what I thought too.. I noticed at my church there is a bathroom off one of the classrooms for younger kids and no floor drain in there anywhere.. So I figure this could be the same way.. The church/School room is no older than 20 years old.?

I really didn't want to do the job but was interested in the floor drain issue. I'm a man short right now and not sure when he's returning yet!:icon_eek:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

3KP said:


> ...is a floor drain required and does this bathroom have to be ADA as well?...


As OS said, yes on the FD for any public restroom.

As long as there is an ADA compliant restroom available in keeping with the occupancy load, you do not have to make this one ADA. Especially since it is intended for special use (3-4 year old kidlets).


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## drain surgeon (Jun 17, 2010)

I may be splitting hairs here but is a bathroom in a daycare classroom area considered public?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

drain surgeon said:


> I may be splitting hairs here but is a bathroom in a daycare classroom area considered public?


Well it certainly not private

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

drain surgeon said:


> I may be splitting hairs here but is a bathroom in a daycare classroom area considered public?


 
thats his out. Its a private bathroom for children only, not the general public


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

GREENPLUM said:


> thats his out. Its a private bathroom for children only, not the general public


Even though the use has a specific intent, it is not private. Child care restroom facilities are classified as Institutional I-4 in the IPC (table 403.1).

If you want to make it an ADA compliant restroom for children, here is some info from the ADA website: http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm#4.16


_4.16.7* Water Closets for Children. Water closets used primarily by children ages 12 and younger shall comply with 4.16.7 as permitted by 4.16.1. Appendix Note

(1) Clear Floor Space. Clear floor space for water closets not in stalls shall comply with Fig. 28 except that the centerline of water closets shall be 12 in minimum to 18 in maximum (305 mm to 455 mm) from the side wall or partition. Clear floor space may be arranged to allow either a left- or right-hand approach.

(2) Height. The height of water closets shall be 11 in minimum to 17 in maximum (280 mm to 430 mm), measured to the top of the toilet seat. Seats shall not be sprung to return to a lifted position.

(3) Grab Bars. Grab bars for water closets not located in stalls shall comply with 4.26 and Fig. 29 except that grab bars shall be mounted 18 in minimum to 27 in maximum (455 mm to 685 mm) above the finish floor measured to the grab bar centerline. The grab bar behind the water closet shall be 36 in (915 mm) minimum. *EXCEPTION:* If administrative authorities require flush controls for flush valves to be located in a position that conflicts with the location of the rear grab bar, then that grab bar may be split or, at water closets with a centerline placement below 15 in (380 mm), a rear grab bar 24 in (610 mm) minimum on the open side of the toilet area shall be permitted.

(4) Flush Controls. Flush controls shall be hand operated or automatic and shall comply with 4.27.4. Controls for flush valves shall be mounted on the wide side of the toilet area no more than 36 in (915 mm) above the floor.

(5) Dispensers. Toilet paper dispensers shall be installed 14 in minimum to 19 in maximum (355 mm to 485 mm) above the finish floor measured to the dispenser centerline. Dispensers that control delivery, or that do not permit continuous paper flow, shall not be used._


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

That's my take on it too. It's not a WR intended for the general public so the typical ADA rules are moot. _However_ it IS a public washroom intended for children under 12 yrs old _that do not reside at the premises_ so Baby Bowls and low lavs would be required and ADA accessibility, grab bars, etc would be required. I'm sure you'll find somewhere that a FD would indeed be required.


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

Where is the water going to go when some snotnose punk stops the lav up with paper towels and leaves the water running!!????:laughing:


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

Oldschool: Your post intrigued me so I grabbed my code book. Can't find anywhere where it says floor drains are mandatory in public restrooms! I remember a teacher telling me they need to have a floor drain if there was a flush valve style fixture installed.

Is this more of a building code than a plumbing code?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

billy_awesome said:


> Oldschool: Your post intrigued me so I grabbed my code book. Can't find anywhere where it says floor drains are mandatory in public restrooms! I remember a teacher telling me they need to have a floor drain if there was a flush valve style fixture installed.
> 
> Is this more of a building code than a plumbing code?


Well imagine that. I can't find it either. I know I have been told all my life that public restrooms must have a floor drain. It makes all the sense in the world but where is it in the book? :blink:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

billy_awesome said:


> Oldschool: Your post intrigued me so I grabbed my code book. Can't find anywhere where it says floor drains are mandatory in public restrooms! I remember a teacher telling me they need to have a floor drain if there was a flush valve style fixture installed.
> 
> Is this more of a building code than a plumbing code?


Then it must be under our building code. I would have to check

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

When you in doubt put it in any ways, save you the heart ace and embarresment. Not like the inspector gonna tell you to take it out right. Btw childrens rest room more likely to have wet floors


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## localguy630 (Jan 26, 2012)

Pretty sure floor drains are not required anymore, at least where I'm at.


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

Ontario code, maybe Federal too: 

3.7.4.13 Floor Drains

(1) A floor drain shall be installed in a washroom containing urinals equipped with automated flushing devices.



Doesn't say much, I emailed a teacher and he told me it's code to have a floor drain in a public washroom, but he can't find it in the code book either. Says it's probably part of the building code.

I find it ridiculous that it's not in our code book, when everything else under the sun on how and when to install fixtures is in there. My Teachers excuse was it's always on the blueprint for drawings, but my argument is we're plumbers and we should know our code no matter what is on a print, what if it's a renovation and there are no prints, that happens all the time, I've just been told by my boss to always put a floor drain in, so I do. But what if a plumber never got taught that??


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

billy_awesome said:


> Ontario code, maybe Federal too:
> 
> 3.7.4.13 Floor Drains
> 
> ...


Where did you go to school? What teacher are you talking to?

I just sent a message to my coordinator at Sheridan. See what hr says.

The following user(s) wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum, Plumber71, DesertOkie


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

U666A said:


> Where did you go to school? What teacher are you talking to?
> 
> I just sent a message to my coordinator at Sheridan. See what hr says.
> 
> The following user(s) wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum, Plumber71, DesertOkie


I go to Fanshawe, all three of our teachers are part of the group of college teachers that meet in Kingston every year for code book changes and such. I assume your teacher does too.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

billy_awesome said:


> I go to Fanshawe, all three of our teachers are part of the group of college teachers that meet in Kingston every year for code book changes and such. I assume your teacher does too.


Mike Haslam sits on the same board, teaches Advanced (Level 3) tradeschool at Mohawk. Perhaps one day I will have a seat there, depending on how my career developes over the next several years.

The following user(s) wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum, Plumber71, DesertOkie


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

U666A said:


> Mike Haslam sits on the same board, teaches Advanced (Level 3) tradeschool at Mohawk. Perhaps one day I will have a seat there, depending on how my career developes over the next several years.
> 
> The following user(s) wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum, Plumber71, DesertOkie



Or how many code questions answers you get right "MUHAHAHAHA" -evil laugh


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

And... Is perfect good enough? 
:laughing:

The following user(s) wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum, Plumber71, DesertOkie


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## court (Dec 14, 2011)

Often different municipalities have their own twists on the floor drain in the restroom question. It is not in the code book anymore that I am aware of. What I often find in these single toilet restrooms is if there is a floor drain they set it flush with the floor. At that point what is the point of the floor drain as the water isnt going to make it there anyway.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

That, and the code is a minimum!
Never forget that, lads. You can never go below the minimum std but what's keeping you from being ABOVE?

I looked too. In the latest code book (for Ontario, which used to pride itself on exceeding the NPC) it doesn't explicitely state that an emergency floor drain is required in a public restroom, other than what was previously 
stated about flushvalves, etc.

Crap, I say! Did they do away with the floordrain simply because it was too difficult to install in most retrofit applications or are the latest Swiffer mops and hefty towels that good in absorbing spills? BaH!

But what it comes down to is that you really don't need one and can skimp out on including it in your bid LEGALLY. How nice. inch:


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## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

Miguel said:


> That, and the code is a minimum!
> Never forget that, lads. You can never go below the minimum std but what's keeping you from being ABOVE?
> 
> I looked too. In the latest code book (for Ontario, which used to pride itself on exceeding the NPC) it doesn't explicitely state that an emergency floor drain is required in a public restroom, other than what was previously
> ...


It's too bad, but your correct sir.

Someone find a building code book! They might have taken it out of the plumbing code book, but kept it in the building code.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I check our building code and it seems to be taken out the requirement for floor drain in public washroom

I found a proposed revision for the next code book for mandatory floor drain for public washroom with automatic flush valve for the wc

Strange because the old code stated floor drain for any public washroom

This was under the building code

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

My experience has been to ask the inspector in your area because when not stated specifically he may be one that believes they should be in every public restroom .While I believe this makes for good practice and good sense most (90% ) of all floors are no longer pitched to the drain so what's the sense?


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## JPCPlumber (Feb 26, 2012)

In my state, only one unisex ADA bathroom is required. Floor drains are not.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

JPCPlumber said:


> In my state, only one unisex ADA bathroom is required. Floor drains are not.


Love the avatar man!!!!

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

SECTION 708 
CLEANOUTS 

*Delete Section 708.3.1 'Horizontal drains within buildings' and substitute the following: 

708.3.1 Horizontal drains within buildings. Each horizontal drainage pipe shall be provided 
with a cleanout at the upstream end of the pipe and shall be provided with cleanouts located not 
more than 100 feet (30 480 mm) apart. 

Exceptions: The following plumbing arrangements are acceptable in lieu of the upstream 

cleanout: 
1 . "P" traps connected to the drainage piping with slip joints or ground joint connections. 



GA International Plumbing Code Amendments 2007 12 



2. "P" traps into which floor drains, shower drains, or tub drains with removable strainers 
discharge. 

3. "P" traps into which the straight- through type waste and overflow discharge with the 
overflow connecting to the top of the tee. 

4. "P" traps into which residential washing machines discharge. 

5. Test tees or cleanouts in a vertical pipe above the flood-level rim of the fixtures that the 
horizontal pipe serves and not more than 4 feet (1219 mm) above the finish floor. 

6. Cleanout near the junction of the building drain and the building sewer which may be 
rodded both ways. 

7. Water closets for the water closet fixture branch only. 
(Effective January 1, 2007) 

*Revise Section 708.3.2 'Building sewers' to read as follows: 

708.3.2 Building sewers. Building sewers shall be provided with cleanouts located not more 
than 100 feet (30 480 mm) apart measured from the upstream entrance of the cleanout. An 
additional cleanout shall be provided within 10 feet (3048 mm) of the public right of way. For 
building sewers 8 inches (203 mm) and larger, manholes shall be provided and located at each 
change in direction and at intervals of not more than 400 feet (122 m). Manholes and manhole 
covers shall be of an approved type. 
(Effective January 1, 2007) 

*Delete Section 708.3.4 'Base of stack' without substitution. 
(Effective January 1, 2007) 

*Revise Section 708.3.5 'Building drain and building sewer junction' to read as follows: 

708.3.5 Building drain and building sewer junction. There shall be a cleanout installed at or 
near the junction of the building drain and the building sewer. The cleanout shall be outside the 
building wall unless otherwise approved and shall be brought up to finished ground level. An 
approved two-way cleanout is allowed to be used at this location to serve as a required cleanout 
for both the building drain and building sewer. 
(Effective January 1, 2007) 

* Revise first sentence of Section 708.7 'Minimum size' to read as follows: 

708.7 Minimum size. Cleanouts shall be the same nominal size as the pipe they are connected 
to, up to 4 inches (102 mm). For pipes larger... (Remainder of Section left unchanged) 
(Effective January 1, 2007)


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## plumbtekkk (May 19, 2012)

*ADA rest room*

here in cal, floor drains are req but no trap primer if there is a hose bib installed in rest room.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

3KP said:


> I'm more of a residential plumber. I had a customer that is opening up a daycare in a stripmall of 3 suites. They have 2 handycap baths with floor drains. According to stay regulations they have to have a bathroom off the classroom for 3-4 year olds. Well the problem I'm wondering about is a floor drain required and does this bathroom have to be ADA as well? This customer wants to use a saniflo system to advoid busting up all the concrete and the new flooring they put down :whistling2: I guess they should of thought of that before putting the flooring down..
> 
> I called my local code officials yesterday and still haven't recieved a call back. Surprise surprise!! Heck called them last Oct to ask them why I have to armor flex my PVC drains coming through a concrete slab? PVC is not corrosive.. they still haven't called for that one yet. WORTHLESS!


First of all what state are you in? Are you in a locality that has a code above and beyond the state code?


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

not sure about the floor drain, but i believe the issue with pvc and concrete is the concrete will eventually deteriorate the pvc. It shouldn't be that u need to armorflex it but it must be sleeved or a relieving arc. pvc sleeved through con it in my code.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

I've been running service calls for Kindercare in the DFW area for years now, and seen hundreds of children's bathrooms...every single one has a floor drain.


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