# Copper pinholes



## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

Holy crap, these things are happening everywhere, had 12 this week, 4 vertical, 6 horizontal and 2 were slab leaks, these people have no idea what's about to hit them, anyone else getting slammed with them? Had one today, 7 year old town house in 1" M, green spots all over the rest of the pipe, 200 units in the complex, yesterday's was in 10year old L soft copper and one in 40 year old L ridgid, time to buy stock in slip couplings hahaha


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

For a short time when I was in Kali I worked for a company that did cathodic protection out of San Diego. He had a good track record, large complexes stopped having leaks after six months of install. I tried to find a site for the company, but couldn't. I'll have to call and see if he's still in business.


----------



## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

OpenSights said:


> that did cathodic protection.


What is that ?


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Changing water conditions due to the drought?

Has the ph lowered?

Nothing will eat a copper pipe faster than low ph....


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Changing water conditions due to the drought?
> Very true. Tap water conditions in drought effected areas are showing some variance now that purveyors are having to blend in less pipe friendly sourced water to meet demand.
> Has the ph lowered?
> 
> Nothing will eat a copper pipe faster than low ph....


Certain solder fluxes will. Hot (corrosive) soil will too.


----------



## srloren (Nov 19, 2014)

*Pin holes galore*

A few year back I was with my wife in our Master Bedroom when she says, "I hear water running." So I step into the master bathroom that has a carpeted floor and on top of that my wife placed a small throw rug. I got down on my knees and opened the cabinet doors where my lavatory was so I could stick my head inside to hear better and as I put my hand on the carpet after moving the throw rug, I felt heat coming up from the floor. I quickly went to my garage and turned off the ball valve at the Water Heater. My wife yells out, "You fixed it." Yea, I fixed it alright. I knew that I had a leak under my slab on the hot system. Another beautiful Saturday morning already gone to _hit! 

So I jump into the pickup and head for HomeDepot. I go in and pick out a few lengths of 1/2" and a length of 3/4" or two. I head home and unload the supplies. I spend the rest of the hour or two drawing up a drawing of my bathroom and kitchen layout coming to the Water heater. I go into the attic and take measurements after removing drywall at the fixture locations and drilling 1" holes through the double plates. I install pipe supports and between the studs and clip my drops into place at all fixtures. I will mention that luckily this happened when I was replacing my roof and for most of the drops, I simply drilled a hole in the new plywood that was the underlayment for my light weight concrete roof that was about to be installed. I slid the copper 1/2" lines through the holes in the roof and secured the wing ells to the steel plates that they attach to. 

Now let me go to where I pick up the first length of copper from Home Depot; I start to make my first cut and What, I was livid. There were pin holes in this brand new copper tube from Home Depot. I almost went Ape_hit! I checked and all of the 1/2" had pin holes. It was made in, you guessed it, Mexico. I took the tubing back and bought it at the local supply house, where I should have purchased it in the first place. That is my pin hole story. I have had clients call with leaks in their sealing and when I opened up the drywall, found pin holes. I told them I could repair it but could not guarantee there would not be more. So we re-piped the whole house. Moral of Story: Carefully inspect all copper tubing prior to installation, don't buy tubing made in Mexico and when you are cutting with tubing cutter be aware of thin places in your tubing.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

srloren said:


> Now let me go to where I pick up the first length of copper from Home Depot; I start to make my first cut and What, I was livid. There were pin holes in this brand new copper tube from Home Depot. I almost went Ape_hit! I checked and all of the 1/2" had pin holes. It was made in, you guessed it, Mexico.


Homer here sells Cerro Flow Products LLC copper tube....
Made in Missouri....


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

plungerboy said:


> What is that ?


The guy I worked for... who's an electrical and chemical engineer... I know... Patented this system that would introduce a "product" (chemical) into the copper system just above the meter that would bond to the inside of the pipes... I guess the best way to describe it is like an anode rod in a water heater, but like sleeving the inside, and corrode before the copper. 

He's a smart guy... with common sense.


----------



## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Homer here sells Cerro Flow Products LLC copper tube.... Made in Missouri....


dam good stuff. Lol


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Yep, first watch and make sure your copper is made in the US. With the free trade agreement, some made in Mexico, "can" be made with a lower standard and have a higher iron content. I will also bet it is "M" copper. L & K should not have the issue.

As RedWood said, watch the softener. We have an adjoining town that has pin hole issues so much they will only allow L, K or CPVC. The pin holes only seem to be in the "horizontal" position and never by a fitting. I have heard that softened water can let micro particulates of chlorine attach to the walls of the pipe, where non-softened water will not and allow a peteena to start, which protects the copper.


----------



## czplumbing (Nov 24, 2014)

I would check the PH anything lower than 7.0 is corrosive between 6.8 to 7 not to bad but lower than that put a Neutralizer in line ASAP


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

czplumbing said:


> I would check the PH anything lower than 7.0 is corrosive between 6.8 to 7 not to bad but lower than that put a Neutralizer in line ASAP


Zackly!

Hit 6.5 or so and it happens really fast even L & K are not immune...

When the PH goes toward the acid side of neutral you need an Acid Neutralizer...



> *Copper tube (Alloy C12200) has been evaluated by {certified testing agency such as NSF, UL, IAPMO, WQA, CSA…} to NSF/ANSI 61 for use in drinking water supplies of pH 6.5 and above. Drinking water supplies that are less than pH 6.5 may require corrosion control to limit leaching of copper into the drinking water.*
> http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/cth/design-installation/cth_3design_gencon.html


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Here is some additional information on copper tube corrosion....



> *When corrosion problems do occur, they usually stem from one of the following causes:
> *
> 
> aggressive, hard well waters that cause pitting;
> ...


----------

