# Long Stem ball valve



## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

Hello all, 


I'm new here. I am a journeyman from the San Francisco Bay Area. Normally we don't have to worry about freezing around here, mains are shallow we don't need to worry about freezing hose bibs and what not. 


I have a FUNKY mountain cabin up in the Sierra Nevadas. We keep the water off in the cabin and haven't had any trouble with freezing pipes. I have been turning the water off at the meter because I'm afraid the water service will freeze and cause trouble. Last year, with like 6 feet of snow on the ground, I had to dig the meter box out to turn the water on; and literally gave my self a hernia doing so (yes, make fun of me... I deserve it). So, here is my question (I am embarrassed about this!): Do any of the folk who are in cold weather, have an idea bout how to make a valve stem longer or it stick up above the ground surface so that I don't have to dig out all of that snow? Something like the field spigots (not sure what they are called) I see around?


I had thought about putting a little shed type thing over the meter box, but then I need something on the handle to actuate the valve. I would rather stay away from the pneumatic/ electric route; it's just too expensive. 


How do people handle this situation where it freezes more often?


THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

...


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

I have seen video of this crazy thing were you guys in warmer climates have the meter and valves outside and maybe a foot underground. Here in cold north west minnesota the water service is at least 7' underground and there is a curbstop valve like in that picture above and you put a long key down and turn it on or off and then the meter is inside the house.

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

like a long stemmed rose....16 years in the plumbing industry and you never did a water main? what kind of shutoff do you use on water services to houses or buildings?


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## breplum (Mar 21, 2009)

ShtR, the curb meter box is typically a concrete Cristy box no deeper than 12".
12" earth cover minimum is code as per Calif P Code. UPC allows type M copper for residential underground.
The utility stop is just a slotted brass quarter turn valve, and a meter key is upside down U shaped welded to T handle ~30" long.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

breplum said:


> ShtR, the curb meter box is typically a concrete Cristy box no deeper than 12".
> 12" earth cover minimum is code as per Calif P Code. UPC allows type M copper for residential underground.
> The utility stop is just a slotted brass quarter turn valve, and a meter key is upside down U shaped welded to T handle ~30" long.



wow...im in the northeast..nothing less than 4ft down for the frost....


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

breplum said:


> ShtR, the curb meter box is typically a concrete Cristy box no deeper than 12".
> 12" earth cover minimum is code as per Calif P Code. UPC allows type M copper for residential underground.
> The utility stop is just a slotted brass quarter turn valve, and a meter key is upside down U shaped welded to T handle ~30" long.





ShtRnsdownhill said:


> wow...im in the northeast..nothing less than 4ft down for the frost....


1 foot and 4 feet are for warm blooded mammals! Nothing less than 7-8 feet for the frost. :biggrin::biggrin:


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

jakewilcox said:


> Hello all,
> 
> 
> I'm new here. I am a journeyman from the San Francisco Bay Area. Normally we don't have to worry about freezing around here, mains are shallow we don't need to worry about freezing hose bibs and what not.
> ...


I’m from Orange County, California so I don’t deal with freezing temperatures either. My brother has a cabin in Big Bear California and keeps the water shutoff when no one is there also. He has a stop and waste valve in the front yard about 3-4 feet down that we turn off with a long stick that has a meter key attachment on the end. We don’t do full winterization, we shut it off and open faucets to let the water drain. 

I’d recommend talking to some of the neighbors there and gain some local knowledge of what they are using. Since you’re a journeyman you’ll be able to install what they are using to make your life easier.

My knowledge is pretty limited on the freezing issue though.


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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

Tango said:


> 1 foot and 4 feet are for warm blooded mammals! Nothing less than 7-8 feet for the frost. :biggrin::biggrin:


I am from So. CA. myself, but back in 1998-2000, I was working in the 
Spokane, WA. area where they are 5-6 deep, sometimes located in
a Manhole., :wink:


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## MASTRPLUMB (Mar 22, 2019)

In SO. Ca. not only is the water service only about 12" deep,
But also I have seen sewer lines coming out 12" deep,
But I also seen them as deep as 6' or 7' just outside the foundation


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> like a long stemmed rose....16 years in the plumbing industry and you never did a water main? what kind of shutoff do you use on water services to houses or buildings?


Here’s our water shut off valves


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Debo22 said:


> Here’s our water shut off valves


Damn that's too easy! I have to deal with tight spaces, Sometime only able to work with only one hand, flammable foam insulation etc.


.


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## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

I’ve done plenty of water mains, but they are usually copper and 12” deep. This isn’t the case up in the Sierras. I was just looking for a solution that made it so that I didn’t have to shovel so much snow (I know- make fun of me all you like). 

The only thing I have been able to think of to make it feasible is some sort of automated valve, but I really don’t like that idea for a bunch of reasons. 

Thanks for the input!


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## Diehard1st (Sep 6, 2019)

If it's primarily the snow that's the hurdle, extend the valve box above grade. 

Of course you need a valve that can be actuated with the appropriate T-wrench.


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## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

So here’s what I came up with. The roof lifts up on hinges, so that I can access a piece of PVC that rotates and is slotted and screwed in to the handle of a ball valve underground. I glued a tee on the top of the pvc to use as a handle, you can see it in the second pic. So, really it’s just an extended valve box. I used some oversized two hole straps to hold the PVC in place as it rotates. I don’t love it; my carpentry sucks. And my pics aren’t great either.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Is that structure built to code? Did you get a permit? Is that wood lead free? Did you use a tape measure or a folding ruler? :vs_laugh:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> 1 foot and 4 feet are for warm blooded mammals! Nothing less than 7-8 feet for the frost. :biggrin::biggrin:



I go that deep to bury the bodies...and some lime on top...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> Here’s our water shut off valves












That is S. FL too....LOL. All the water services are just like that in your picture.

I lived there for {17} yrs. and I don't think it ever got below 32 degrees F. We had like {5} nights a year when we needed to flip the heat on with our central A/C unit.


However up here in N. FL, the water services stay underground all the way into the bldg. The shut-off valves are in boxes approx. 1 foot deep right as it enters the bldg.




To orig. poster, I like your mini-valve box. Buy a snow-blower, it'll save your back.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I go that deep to bury the bodies...and some lime on top...


Nope, they can recuperate the DNA from the pulp of the teeth. Burn it but it takes a lot of fuel, maybe lots of acid. In either case you still need a deep pit. :devil3:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> Nope, they can recuperate the DNA from the pulp of the teeth. Burn it but it takes a lot of fuel, maybe lots of acid. In either case you still need a deep pit. :devil3:


 only if they find where you buried the body....
body 8ft down fill with dirt..till about 3 ft , then bury dead animal to throw off the cadaver dogs....:wink:


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

Answer from Michigan:

Water services are a minimum 5 feet deep here. This is in southeastern Michigan, it is deeper as you go further north. We can easily reach zero degrees here and sometimes it goes to ten or 15 below zero. I do not know how deep the services are in the Upper Peninsula where it gets really cold.

The valve at the bottom of the "box" is a bladed cock that is will turn 360 degrees but only needs turning 90 degrees for either off or on. It has a"box" over it to guide the key and protect from dirt and debris. Sometimes the box needs to be blown out with high pressure air in order to reach the stop with the key. The municipality usually does this at no charge.


Depending upon the municipality, the valve may not have an extension and needs to be reached with a street key that is over six feet long, or has an extension to within 2 feet of the surface or possibly 4 feet of the surface.


I will try to find the name of the supplier of these items so that you can see how it is done in the North.


Look here:

https://assets.fordmeterbox.com/catalog/ga/gajpeg.pdf

see pages GA-3 thru 7 for pictures.


If you are thinking of purchasing something like this, do not get it with the rod installed. They have tendency to seize up, or rot/rust out over the years or the cotter pin deteriorates. Either of these occurrences require digging it up and doing the repair. 



If you want to see a typical curb stop, look up Z22-444-M-NL in their catalog.


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