# PVC Pipes and Glue



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> Oh... that works great too,,, did not see the pipe rack on the side.... Now all you got to do is start using real PVC pipe instead of that black crappy stuff...


That's a monumental task! No one in the entire province uses PVC since plastic was being put in other than underground or now commercial grade gray or XFR.

Even the supply houses don't have white PVC. I don't want to carry primer or that the glue becomes jello in the can. Heck I have to buy a new can of transition glue each time it become jello in 3-4 weeks

No ABS it's not crappy! We'll see if cell core ABS lasts!


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tango said:


> That's a monumental task! No one in the entire province uses PVC since plastic was being put in other than underground or now commercial grade gray or XFR.
> 
> Even the supply houses don't have white PVC. I don't want to carry primer or that the glue becomes jello in the can. Heck I have to buy a new can of transition glue each time it become jello in 3-4 weeks
> 
> No ABS it's not crappy! We'll see if cell core ABS lasts!



they will all last somewhere between 300 to 800 years...
so we are not going to be replacing any of it due to wear and tear in our lives.......



.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> That's a monumental task! No one in the entire province uses PVC since plastic was being put in other than underground or now commercial grade gray or XFR.
> 
> Even the supply houses don't have white PVC. I don't want to carry primer or that the glue becomes jello in the can. Heck I have to buy a new can of transition glue each time it become jello in 3-4 weeks
> 
> No ABS it's not crappy! We'll see if cell core ABS lasts!



why dont you just thin the glue with some acetone? when it starts getting thick...


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> why dont you just thin the glue with some acetone? when it starts getting thick...


You mean clear primer? Clear primer works better than straight acetone because it is the same mixture of solvents used to make the glue.












.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> No ABS it's not crappy! We'll see if cell core ABS lasts!


They both suck.




Master Mark said:


> they will all last somewhere between 300 to 800 years...
> so we are not going to be replacing any of it due to wear and tear in our lives......





Do you not have tree roots where you live? Most places around here abs is not legal to bury and the abs that has been buried doesn't last long. The worst abs root issue I have seen was thin wall abs buried 30ish years ago. Some time shortly after it was buried, maybe even from the snack of one of the workers, an apple tree grew right on top. The brand name of that abs was printed right next to where the roots grew in a stress crack. The name was "Ruut Pruf" :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:



I have seen exactly one pvc line with root issues and when I camerad it there was no evidence of primer/glue(purple required here). The line was less than ten years old. I chalk that up to bad installation.




I've said it before and I'll say it again;




Pvc, the superior white pipe










.


----------



## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Tango said:
> 
> 
> > No ABS it's not crappy! We'll see if cell core ABS lasts!
> ...


 You must not have a lot of pvc in your area. I see roots and broken pvc ALL the time. Not as much as in old cast iron obviously. I have probably only run into buried abs a couple dozen times in thousands of lines I've snaked and inspected. In fact, the last 3 sewers we've dug up have been pvc. 

Most of the PVC issues can be traced to improper installation. I too prefer PVC to abs but the pipe and fittings are only as good as the installation will allow.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> You must not have a lot of pvc in your area. I see roots and broken pvc ALL the time. Not as much as in old cast iron obviously. I have probably only run into buried abs a couple dozen times in thousands of lines I've snaked and inspected. In fact, the last 3 sewers we've dug up have been pvc.
> 
> Most of the PVC issues can be traced to improper installation. I too prefer PVC to abs but the pipe and fittings are only as good as the installation will allow.





We have a ton of pvc in our area. If it's not cast iron, transite, or orangeburg then there is a 95% chance it's pvc.


I will say it doesn't seem to be that 80's peach colored pvc but the newer post mid 90's pvc that isn't as brittle so that is likely the reason we have so few issues. Pvc took much longer to catch on here for drains and almost none of the buried pvc is that peach colored stuff.


If you want to get real weird we even have some ti-krome pipe. The wildest piping choice I think I have ever seen was a 2" ti-krome oil tank fill and vent.








.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> why dont you just thin the glue with some acetone? when it starts getting thick...


I didn't know that and the primer trick, I'll get a can. I rarely use that glue I only buy the mini can that has about 8 table spoon full.

Can anyone find the thread of ABS/PVC I'll transfer these post there.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> You mean clear primer? Clear primer works better than straight acetone because it is the same mixture of solvents used to make the glue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



nope..acetone...you can use pvc primer..it all works to thin the glue....but if you use purple primer then you get purple glue...


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> You must not have a lot of pvc in your area. I see roots and broken pvc ALL the time. Not as much as in old cast iron obviously. I have probably only run into buried abs a couple dozen times in thousands of lines I've snaked and inspected. In fact, the last 3 sewers we've dug up have been pvc.
> 
> Most of the PVC issues can be traced to improper installation. I too prefer PVC to abs but the pipe and fittings are only as good as the installation will allow.


Lots of roots in pvc pipe here as well but only do to a separation (bad joint, collapsed pipe, improper bedding-broken pipe. Pvc will last many many lifetimes.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> nope..acetone...you can use pvc primer..it all works to thin the glue....but if you use purple primer then you get purple glue...





Right, that's why you use CLEAR primer. If you use straight acetone than you'll get a brittle bond. That's why primer is several different solvents and not just straight primer. Schit, even purple would really be fine. In what scenario is straight acetone more available to you than clear primer?




Do you carry a bottle of nail polish remover in your purse? :biggrin::vs_laugh:










.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> You must not have a lot of pvc in your area. *I see roots and broken pvc ALL the time.* Not as much as in old cast iron obviously. I have probably only run into buried abs a couple dozen times in thousands of lines I've snaked and inspected. In fact, the last 3 sewers we've dug up have been pvc.
> 
> Most of the PVC issues can be traced to improper installation. I too prefer PVC to abs but the pipe and fittings are only as good as the installation will allow.






Are you talking about sch. 40 pvc pipe or sdr35? sdr35 is garbage. Also, push seal or solvent weld?


I prefer solvent weld sch. 40 pvc, the superior white pipe.










.


----------



## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> V.A Hydro-ooter said:
> 
> 
> > You must not have a lot of pvc in your area. *I see roots and broken pvc ALL the time.* Not as much as in old cast iron obviously. I have probably only run into buried abs a couple dozen times in thousands of lines I've snaked and inspected. In fact, the last 3 sewers we've dug up have been pvc.
> ...


 I rarely see 35 around here. Probably because it's crap and most people have had to replace it. There is one neighborhood near me where they used that so I always put a pamphlet on neighbor's doors when I'm out repairing a line. It's gotten me several customers over the years.

I mostly deal with schedule 40 if it's PVC. Both foam core and solid. The issues are usually at the joints but I've had a few with cracks or holes in the pipe. Some areas I work in are very rocky so sometimes it's caused by careless backfill. Back when I did new construction there was one neighborhood I hated working in. I couldn't dig with a pick and shovel like I usually did. I'd have to use a jackhammer with a spade bit to dig. Just to give you an idea on how rocky it can get.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

V.A Hydro-ooter said:


> I rarely see 35 around here. Probably because it's crap and most people have had to replace it. There is one neighborhood near me where they used that so I always put a pamphlet on neighbor's doors when I'm out repairing a line. It's gotten me several customers over the years.
> 
> I mostly deal with schedule 40 if it's PVC. Both foam core and solid. The issues are usually at the joints but I've had a few with cracks or holes in the pipe. Some areas I work in are very rocky so sometimes it's caused by careless backfill. Back when I did new construction there was one neighborhood I hated working in. I couldn't dig with a pick and shovel like I usually did. I'd have to use a jackhammer with a spade bit to dig. Just to give you an idea on how rocky it can get.





How often do you see SOLID core pvc break/get roots when they haven't dropped potatoes on it?


There is almost zero foam core around here so I forget they even make it and forget to mention it.





.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Right, that's why you use CLEAR primer. If you use straight acetone than you'll get a brittle bond. That's why primer is several different solvents and not just straight primer. Schit, even purple would really be fine. In what scenario is straight acetone more available to you than clear primer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


its not a purse..its a man carryall..............dammit.........................:vs_laugh:


----------



## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

Acetone or primer? Honestly, the chemicals are cheap enough that I buy new ones for each job and charge for them every time. I will keep one open can of each for very small repairs that only need one or two components glued, but anything more than that and I just buy new ones and the old ones go out, and of course I only keep the newest pair whenever I buy some. That way I almost never even have to worry about messing with gelled glue. It's good to be frugal and cuts costs when you can, but this is one time where it might be false economy.

BTW, unless anyone has dual degrees in chemstry and plumbing, you really can't be sure that those makeshift fixes are going to perform longterm as well as the unadulterated stuff from the manufacturer. They may seem to do the job on the surface, but most chemical reactions occur in very specific ways based on specific concentrations and percentages. The manufactuers have all that worked out to achieve the best possible performance of their products as intended, and also to cover their a$$es, and ours. When you start messing with that you risk possible complications and liability.


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

I thought all of the old Orangeburg was gone by now..
Didn't start using ABS/PVC till '74 or so.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

mtfallsmikey said:


> I thought all of the old Orangeburg was gone by now..
> Didn't start using ABS/PVC till '74 or so.



my parents house has it, built in 1965..roots get in but mom has some insurance policy for like $99.00 a year they cover any sewer cleaning or water main issues..so each year she just has the roots cut out..its impossible to dig above, concrete driveway and sidewalk along with landscaping that cant be touched... so only option is to line it, but at this stage of the game its not worth it moms 87 so the cost of lining will never be made up by stopping the insurance....


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

mtfallsmikey said:


> I thought all of the old Orangeburg was gone by now..
> Didn't start using ABS/PVC till '74 or so.





Like every fourth line I snake has orangeburg and I average around 300 main lines a year.










.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

best solution...just sniff the primer and dont worry about anything else....


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> best solution...just sniff the primer and dont worry about anything else....



But, its not a good buzz


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

mtfallsmikey said:


> But, its not a good buzz



when ever I use pvc glue and primer any carpenters working close always commented on getting a buzz, I guess any of my brain cells that would get a buzz are all burned up from so many years of breathing it in..


----------



## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

skoronesa said:


> They both suck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Slow your roll Sko, you'll end up next to Harvey at Rikers with talk like that:vs_laugh:


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

BPM............black pipes matter............................................:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


----------



## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> BPM............black pipes matter............................................<img src="http://www.plumbingzone.com/images/smilies/vs_laugh.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Vs Laugh" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://www.plumbingzone.com/images/smilies/vs_laugh.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Vs Laugh" class="inlineimg" />



Hahahaha...


----------



## ironandfire (Oct 9, 2008)

*Orange*

Genuine Orangeburg. Period.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ironandfire said:


> Genuine Orangeburg. Period.





Here's a couple more. *ROOT-PROOF!*





.


----------



## ironandfire (Oct 9, 2008)

skoronesa said:


> Here's a couple more. *ROOT-PROOF!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Ductile Iron-Root Proof


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Plumbus said:


> Ductile Iron-Root Proof





As far as I am concerned it's all *root resistant.*


Given enough time any pipe will have roots grow in. I will say transite has done pretty well in our area. A bunch of houses put up in the 50's around here have it.







.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

i have never pulled a root from a properly installed pvc sewer.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i have never pulled a root from a properly installed pvc sewer.





If you're talking schedule 40 than my experience is the same. I had one line get roots at a coupling right next to a huge tree. Turns out that was the one coupling with very little primer and there wasn't glue all the way around.




I have seen plenty of sdr35 fail though. That stuff is garbage.




Schedule 40 pvc, the superior white pipe.








.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

ive been running sch 35 for over 20 years on storm sewers. most shallow with frost yearly. no fails either.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> ive been running sch 35 for over 20 years on storm sewers. most shallow with frost yearly. no fails either.





Larger diameters are a different beast. I am specifically talking about 4" residential lines.


I think most of it is that guys install sdr35 the same as sch40 and sch40 is much more resistant to installer error aka backfilling with potatoes.






.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Larger diameters are a different beast. I am specifically talking about 4" residential lines.
> 
> 
> I think most of it is that guys install sdr35 the same as sch40 and sch40 is much more resistant to installer error aka backfilling with potatoes.
> ...


in my area the smallest allowed sewer pipe from house to street is 6 inch, and that sdr is a good 1/4 thick walls and tuff as steel...


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> in my area the smallest allowed sewer pipe from house to street is 6 inch, and that sdr is a good 1/4 thick walls and tuff as steel...


 Tough as steel? I think not.


Really? 6"? I have seen a number of 6" lines that clog from lack of water/too big of pipe. You guys must have a lot more issues with the water outrunning the waste.


You got to take a picture of that code. This is the first I am hearing of such a requirement.

*Skip to 8:20*









.


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Anyone ever come across a wood stave sewer line?
I did once. I had to splice in a wye. I wasn't expecting wood, but I dealt with it.


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Tough as steel? I think not.
> 
> 
> Really? 6"? I have seen a number of 6" lines that clog from lack of water/too big of pipe. You guys must have a lot more issues with the water outrunning the waste.
> ...


 I call BS on the sdr shattering , then its not the same we use on the east coast...I have seen trucks run it over and it only bends but doesnt blow apart like that...




here you go search for it, im not wasting my time for what I know is code here..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ork/ipc-2015&usg=AOvVaw0gEAdGUQGvXcs4zQjjbAZV


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Tough as steel? I think not.
> 
> 
> *Really? 6"? I have seen a number of 6"* lines that clog from lack of water/too big of pipe. You guys must have a lot more issues with the water outrunning the waste.
> ...


My 1952 house has 6" from outside the foundation going to the street. I've been here 10 years, no clogs yet. Our code you can up size all you want.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Plumbus said:


> Anyone ever come across a wood stave sewer line?
> I did once. I had to splice in a wye. I wasn't expecting wood, but I dealt with it.




We have a town around here with wooden water mains. drilled out timbers with hub and spigots cut on the ends and forced together. Occasionally an old tap plug will go and they have to patch it. The pipes leak so much that at one booster station it's set to 200+psi just to compensate for the loss by the time it gets to the row of houses.




All this trouble and they repaved main street a couple years back, right over the old wooden water mains. Lipstick on a pig at the town level.



.


----------



## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

Tango said:


> My 1952 house has 6" from outside the foundation going to the street. I've been here 10 years, no clogs yet. Our code you can up size all you want.



My house 1923 6" building trap and m.l never plugs....


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

6” SDR 35 has a pipe wall thickness of .018”.

6” SDR 26 has a pipe wall thickness of .241”. 

I don’t think SDR 35 is allowed for building sewers here. SDR 26 or Sch 40. 

I see a lot of crushed/ collapsed, smashed SDR 35. Hell, I’ve probed through it. 


And all our building sewers are 6” as well. Not sure I agree with that in a residential setting but it is what it is.


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

skoronesa said:


> The pipes leak so much that at one booster station it's set to 200+psi just to compensate for the loss by the time it gets to the row of houses. All this trouble and they repaved main street a couple years back, right over the old wooden water mains. Lipstick on a pig at the town level.


Some years ago, my town's department in charge of street maintenance was planning on resurfacing a major street. Coincidentally, the sewer district was also in the planning stage for replacing the main sewer that ran down the left side of the street. When the street people got wind of the sewer people's plans, they informed them that they would have to replace the whole street and not just the half they disturbed, because the street was in such a condition it would deteriorate if disturbed. The sewer district decided in the short term to repair rather than replace. A year goes by and the city repaves the road. Another 6 months go by and the sewer district replaces the sewer and patches half the new street. 
If they had just sat down and worked out a compromise to share the costs it would have been a win-win. But, that's is not how it often works when it comes to department budgets and who can stick it to whoo.


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Tango said:


> My 1952 house has 6" from outside the foundation going to the street. I've been here 10 years, no clogs yet. Our code you can up size all you want.


My whole neighborhood was developed between '49 and '51. We all got Orangeburg laterals. I've since replaced a number of them for neighbors. My lateral runs to a sewer easement between my house and the house that mirrors mine on the street behind me. Because it runs under a deck, some concrete hardscape and my vegetable garden (which I have been babying organically since the early '80's), I was not too crazy about the idea of cut and fill. That's why I put off replacement for so long. A couple of years ago, my wife says we have to replace the deck. My first thought was I don't want to rip up a perfectly good deck 5 or so years after it's installed. But, I still didn't want to disturb my back yard. Then, I did something I had never recommended to any customer. I got ahold of a local trenchless contractor and he offered me a sweetheart deal if I would refer him to customers. He did the job and I've held up my end of the bargain a number of times.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

pipe bursting is awesome.


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Cast iron stubbed out of the house then transfers to 4” clay in my neighborhood. I don’t remember ever coming across 6”. Even the commercial building I posted the double 2 way clean out I installed was 4” Clay 150’ down the line.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Plumbus said:


> Some years ago, my town's department in charge of street maintenance was planning on resurfacing a major street. ..............But, that's is not how it often works when it comes to department budgets and who can stick it to whoo.





Yeah, in this case it was a board of like 8 people who know nothing about fixing things. And most of the town is not on city water, and most are seasonal.




It was a case of don't know and don't know to care.






.


----------

