# Question



## DaJaFa (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok…so…just passed my first year of plumbing…still have a few basic questions…because depending on who I work with that day I am told a different way to do something…different orders of steps, different measurements…do I just memorize every person's steps and do as they want when I am with them? I can not really tell them to piss off and let me work…for obvious reasons…but I have set fixtures and soldered and taken the measurements and done the math…I can read blueprints better than most of the people "teaching" me. I know I have only done this for a year. And I am not trying to say I know everything already. But I do know how to set a commode. I have 4 different "bosses" that I cycle through depending on who needs help. And all of them tell me that I am doing it wrong, even though I know I am not. My actual boss tells me to tell them to stfu, but doing that would make it harder for me when I do actually need help. So. Long story short, I have a few questions, just the most major issues…I only do construction btw, so service information is a little unnecessary. 
1) When setting a commode/urinal do you put thread tape and/or pipe dope on the flush-valve and such, or no?
2) Primer on PVC pipe…several rounds with semi-dry brush to reduce trickling, or just slather it on to make sure there is enough?
3) Setting a urinal…put pipe dope on the gasket or does that cause problems?
4) Soldering…solder every outlet of a fitting at once(both sides of an ell, all sides of a tee, etc), or just what you have ready at that point?
Those are just the biggest differences in the way my "bosses" want me to do things. The differences in steps is stupid, we get to the same point. But these are the differences in actually doing my job. 

P.S. sorry for the horribly long post…it just bugs me to be past a year now and everyone treating me like I am brand new, lol.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

DaJaFa said:


> Ok…so…just passed my first year of plumbing…still have a few basic questions…because depending on who I work with that day I am told a different way to do something…different orders of steps, different measurements…do I just memorize every person's steps and do as they want when I am with them? I can not really tell them to piss off and let me work…for obvious reasons…but I have set fixtures and soldered and taken the measurements and done the math…I can read blueprints better than most of the people "teaching" me. I know I have only done this for a year. And I am not trying to say I know everything already. But I do know how to set a commode. I have 4 different "bosses" that I cycle through depending on who needs help. And all of them tell me that I am doing it wrong, even though I know I am not. My actual boss tells me to tell them to stfu, but doing that would make it harder for me when I do actually need help. So. Long story short, I have a few questions, just the most major issues…I only do construction btw, so service information is a little unnecessary.
> 1) When setting a commode/urinal do you put thread tape and/or pipe dope on the flush-valve and such, or no?
> 2) Primer on PVC pipe…several rounds with semi-dry brush to reduce trickling, or just slather it on to make sure there is enough?
> 3) Setting a urinal…put pipe dope on the gasket or does that cause problems?
> ...


1) no
2) semi-dry brush to reduce trickling
3) No dope
4) All at once.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

*Do It The Way Your Boss Wants It Done!*

But ask them to sync....

You need to figure out there is a good reason for that... :yes:


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

DaJaFa said:


> Ok…so…just passed my first year of plumbing…still have a few basic questions…because depending on who I work with that day I am told a different way to do something…different orders of steps, different measurements…do I just memorize every person's steps and do as they want when I am with them? I can not really tell them to piss off and let me work…for obvious reasons…but I have set fixtures and soldered and taken the measurements and done the math…I can read blueprints better than most of the people "teaching" me. I know I have only done this for a year. And I am not trying to say I know everything already. But I do know how to set a commode. I have 4 different "bosses" that I cycle through depending on who needs help. And all of them tell me that I am doing it wrong, even though I know I am not. My actual boss tells me to tell them to stfu, but doing that would make it harder for me when I do actually need help. So. Long story short, I have a few questions, just the most major issues…I only do construction btw, so service information is a little unnecessary.
> 1) When setting a commode/urinal do you put thread tape and/or pipe dope on the flush-valve and such, or no?
> No tape or pipe dope for me. Make sure your lined up right. and use a wrench with no teeth so you don't mark up the fitting.
> 2) Primer on PVC pipe…several rounds with semi-dry brush to reduce trickling, or just slather it on to make sure there is enough?
> ...


I'm sure it's frustrating but you need to take in what they all tell you. There's alot of different ways we all go about doing things. You just got to form your own way based on the knowledge given to you by all the different plumbers you work under.


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## Mathyou (Oct 20, 2011)

1. I use dope on sloan/flush valve threads. Using some sort of thread sealant on joints that require tapering threads to create a seal is good practice (there are some exceptions). This is not the case on compression and flared type joints.

2. Rotate the brush around the pipe and fittings to give yourself an even coating of glue, if you "slather it" most of it just ends up on the floor or puddled up inside the pipe and can also give the look of poor workmanship. Also make sure you rotate the pipe or fitting a 1/4 turn when pushing to ensure everything is 100% home.

3. They make gasket sealant for this application and is what I use. It comes in a small toothpaste looking tube and is a thick black substance. I apply a thin layer on both sides of the gasket.

4. This depends on the pipe size you're working with. 1" and lower you can get away with just heating the entire fitting at once, maybe even up to 1-1/4" but I normally am more careful soldering 1-1/2" - 4"

Also get in the habit of applying solder to the bottom of fittings first and coming over the top to finish them off... this does not usually matter on 1/2 and 3/4 but it will reduce the chance of creating a flux pocket in your joint and you can eliminate leaks in your work once you're experienced.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

*Can someone explain to me the reason to use tape/dope on Sloan valves?

There is a o-ring on the supply, a rubber diaphragm that seals under the top, a plastic washer on the handle and a gasket on the vacuum breaker.

Every time I see this, I shake my head in amazement. *

Don't be sloppy with your primer, it's being applied to soften the plastic so as to make a good weld joint...not just to remove the lettering. I like to see a dark purple color as opposed to a light purple color...

I put a little pipe dope on the back of the gasket, this helps it to stay attached whilst installing the urinal. I generally apply some to the face of the gasket too. I also apply to the face of my tank-to-bowl gaskets.

Always apply the heat to the pipe first and then while soldering apply the heat to the back side of the cup , rotating the heat while applying the solder.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

First thing you have to do is gain thier respect and confidense. After that they (probably) won't care.
The lead plumber is always the one who is responsible for the job outcome.
So yeah they will all be watching and unless they are comfortable with what you're doing they will be picky on your methods. Thats just how it is and you will do the same thing one day or be sorry if you don't.
" I know I have only done this for a year."
What you don't realize is that with a year under your belt you have just barely seen a taste of plumbing. You can probably count the rolls of soldier you've personally used. Or if prompted you can most likely count the urinals you've set. 
20 years from now if you reread your thread you will know exactly why your lead plumbers are like they are. Count the various ways they are doing things a plus in your experience gaining adventure. You will find what works best for you in the end. But it's a never ending learning process.
Ultimately try to figure out the best way to provide quality workmanship and show the pride you have in your work. When it's said and done it's your name on the line. And that ranks high in my book.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I have a questions&hellip though. Why is '&hellip" mentioned so much and what is it??? Just curious &hellip.:blink:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Titan Plumbing said:


> *Can someone explain to me the reason to use tape/dope on Sloan valves?
> 
> There is a o-ring on the supply, a rubber diaphragm that seals under the top, a plastic washer on the handle and a gasket on the vacuum breaker.
> 
> Every time I see this, I shake my head in amazement. *


I can't... :laughing:
Because there isn't one....

I bet they put tape and dope on slip joints and compression fittings as well...


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## Mathyou (Oct 20, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> *Can someone explain to me the reason to use tape/dope on Sloan valves?
> 
> There is a o-ring on the supply, a rubber diaphragm that seals under the top, a plastic washer on the handle and a gasket on the vacuum breaker.*


You're 100% correct but I use a light brushing of pipe dope *as a lubricant *because for whatever reason sloan valve threads are very unforgiving (could be the chrome).

I also brush a very light coating of pipedope on the top of the vacuum breaker because they tend to bind up when tightening them up (I do not install the cardboard washer which is suppose to prevent this, and rather use a small application of dope instead, I feel it is a better job.)

You're right but I have never had a problem ever doing it my way. I normally will get the occasional odd leak without using dope on sloan valves.

Like someone said, you get 50 different plumbers to do the same job and you will end up with 50 different ways to accomplish something.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Redwood said:


> I can't... :laughing:
> Because there isn't one....
> 
> I bet they put tape and dope on slip joints and compression fittings as well...



Well, when I see that, I know for darn sure they don't know what the heck they're doing.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Mathyou said:


> You're 100% correct but I use a light brushing of pipe dope *as a lubricant *because for whatever reason sloan valve threads are very unforgiving (could be the chrome).
> 
> I also brush a very light coating of pipedope on the top of the vacuum breaker because they tend to bind up when tightening them up (I do not install the cardboard washer which is suppose to prevent this, and rather use a small application of dope instead, I feel it is a better job.)
> 
> ...


Can I give you a tip? Don't make the joints monkey tight and you won't have that "occasional" leak. If you have a leak on the supply, you need to install a new o-ring. +1 for not using the fiber washer on the vacuum breaker, just snug the nut hand tight, turn the water on and snug as needed with a spud wrench or smooth jawed channel locks. Same with the cap, snug it hand tight only and then snug as needed. If it leaks, chances are you have a cracked plastic cap.

NEVER EVER a need for dope or tape...


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## Mathyou (Oct 20, 2011)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Can I give you a tip? Don't make the joints monkey tight and you won't have that "occasional" leak. If you have a leak on the supply, you need to install a new o-ring. +1 for not using the fiber washer on the vacuum breaker, just snug the nut hand tight, turn the water on and snug as needed with a spud wrench or smooth jawed channel locks. Same with the cap, snug it hand tight only and then snug as needed. If it leaks, chances are you have a cracked plastic cap.
> 
> NEVER EVER a need for dope or tape...


I was handed a set of 18" pipe wrenches to install 1/2" black iron pipe as an apprentice... "monkey tight" should be my middle name. :laughing:

Like I said you're technically correct but I my way has worked 100s of times for me and I have never had an issue. Also if you ever have to replace a sloan valve the un-need dope will make it much easier in the future to get those joints apart.

That is the same reason I put dope on angle stop threads... it is not needed because the compression farrel creates the seal but in the future getting that joint apart will be much easier... and it does not cause any problems in doing so.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I guess if I'm ever in Chicago and stand in front of some of your work...I'll just shake my head.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Mathyou said:


> That is the same reason I put dope on angle stop threads... it is not needed because the compression farrel creates the seal but in the future getting that joint apart will be much easier... and it does not cause any problems in doing so.


 Actually the pipe dope can make it much harder because it tends to lock the fittings together with time. Can you say rectorseal.:laughing: If you feel you must lubricate the threads, stem lube works well. I don't use it on those but on things like basket strainer nuts it helps to get the nut tighter faster without binding.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Mathyou said:


> That is the same reason I put dope on angle stop threads... it is not needed because the compression farrel creates the seal but in the future getting that joint apart will be much easier... and it does not cause any problems in doing so.


I use a dab of grease on the stop valve threads...


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I use a dab of grease on the stop valve threads...


I use either Magic Lube or a silicone based grease.


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## cincy plumber (Jun 14, 2009)

And heat proof grease.


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## DaJaFa (Jan 3, 2012)

Redwood said:


> I bet they put tape and dope on slip joints and compression fittings as well...


Wait…I was told to always use dope on compression fittings…slip joints, I will honestly say, does not ring a bell…either have not used it or they called it something else…if it is used in service call situations I will have no idea what it is…I have only done construction…


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DaJaFa said:


> Wait I was told to always use dope on compression fittings. Slip joints, I will honestly say, does not ring a bell either have not used it or they called it something else.
> 
> If it is used in service call situations I will have no idea what it is. I have only done construction.


There, got rid of the hiccups. You need to get a leash for your iphone. :laughing:

Terminology of fittings, pipe, and fixtures is largely the same regardless of whether you are installing new or repairing old.

"Slip Joint" connections are on flush valves at the spud inlet into the fixture. They are also the type of connection used for tubular drainage fittings under sinks. They are called slip joints because the tubing can "slip" back and forth in the fitting.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DaJaFa said:


> ....I only do construction btw, so service information is a little unnecessary.....


:no:

You are GROSSLY mistaken on this point.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Plum grease on sloan stuff threads and all. NO DOPE the cartridge has a wee small hole, that needs to stay clean or it won't stop flushing. 

For the love of God someone please buy that guy a laptop so I can read his posts.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

DaJaFa said:


> Ok…so…just passed my first year of plumbing…still have a few basic questions…because depending on who I work with that day I am told a different way to do something…different orders of steps, different measurements…do I just memorize every person's steps and do as they want when I am with them? I can not really tell them to piss off and let me work…for obvious reasons…but I have set fixtures and soldered and taken the measurements and done the math…I can read blueprints better than most of the people "teaching" me. I know I have only done this for a year. And I am not trying to say I know everything already. But I do know how to set a commode. I have 4 different "bosses" that I cycle through depending on who needs help. And all of them tell me that I am doing it wrong, even though I know I am not. My actual boss tells me to tell them to stfu, but doing that would make it harder for me when I do actually need help. So. Long story short, I have a few questions, just the most major issues…I only do construction btw, so service information is a little unnecessary.
> 1) When setting a commode/urinal do you put thread tape and/or pipe dope on the flush-valve and such, or no?
> 2) Primer on PVC pipe…several rounds with semi-dry brush to reduce trickling, or just slather it on to make sure there is enough?
> 3) Setting a urinal…put pipe dope on the gasket or does that cause problems?
> ...


Firstly, maybe I'm a mooron, but what the heck does hellip mean? Secondly, My philosophy on plumbing is that if you ask 10 different guys how they'd do a particular job you'd get 10 different answers. Is one more right than another, not in my opinion , in most cases. I was taught " As long as you can hang your hat on the install code-wise then it is acceptable. That said, as an apprentice I worked under different bosses also, some more adaptable than others. The saying goes " When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Keep yer mouth shut, ears & eyes open dude. Learn all the different "tricks" each of your mentors has to offer & you'll be in good shape. Some old-heads aren't too keen on teaching the new guys their skills. you'll feel out the sincere craftsmen from the jealous haters. Good luck in your career.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I put KY jelly on the threads of stops and flushvalves. 

Just kidding!

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Anything that has a o-ring or other such gasket really doesnt need any type of dope. A little grease would be ok to prevent the threads from seizing up and to preserve the gasket material. 

On any type of compression type fitting, there is no need for dope, a little tape round the ferrel is ok though. 

Slip joints don't need nothing 

Normal tapered threads get a good quality teflon based paste and sometimes a little tape to add a extra layer of protection.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

All of the little items you mention....most of that boils down to JUST DO IT. Everyone will develop techniques which work for them. You learn those things by DOING, not by talking about it. If you DO IT and get a call back, then you don't do it THAT way the next time!

NOW, go get me a latte! &hellip while you're at it.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

grandpa said:


> all of the little items you mention....most of that boils down to just do it. Everyone will develop techniques which work for them. You learn those things by doing, not by talking about it. If you do it and get a call back, then you don't do it that way the next time!
> 
> now, go get me a latte! &hellip while you're at it.


lmao


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Mathyou said:


> You're 100% correct but I use a light brushing of pipe dope *as a lubricant *because for whatever reason sloan valve threads are very unforgiving (could be the chrome).
> 
> I also brush a very light coating of pipedope on the top of the vacuum breaker because they tend to bind up when tightening them up (I do not install the cardboard washer which is suppose to prevent this, and rather use a small application of dope instead, I feel it is a better job.)
> 
> ...


We did a school once and the plumber installing all the w c sloan valves threw all the cardboard washers on the floor. Boss stops buy chews him out saying there in their for a reason and makes him go back and reinstall about 30 of them. 
I just dip em in water quickly and hand tight as already mentioned. Finesse is the key!


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm still trying to figure out what hellip means, I searched through my 400 page dictionary and couldn't find it :furious:

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Ross (Dec 9, 2011)

No thread sealant needed on commercial flush valves. 
Use enough primer to coat pipe and fitting. Mind finished surfaces. 
Dope holds gasket on flange while you hang a urinal. I've not seen it cause problems.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

A first year apprentice should not be reading plans or soldering! He should be digging, holding a ladder or getting a bucket of steam from the supply house! (or looking for the ever elusive 1/2" nipple stretcher) 

So count yourself lucky that you are being shown anything, in my opinion it's already gone to your head I'm sure in another year you will have all the knowledge needed and you can start telling the boss how to run the company. 
The second I hear "I can set a toilet" as if thats impressive, my blood boils. Just do what you're told and stop thinking.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Mississippiplum said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what hellip means, I searched through my 400 page dictionary and couldn't find it :furious:
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


It looks like "… appears whenever he uses ";" maybe he should forget that key exists and we won't need hellip reading his posts.... :whistling2:


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Doughnut anyone?


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

DaJaFa said:


> Ok…so…just passed my first year of plumbing…still have a few basic questions…because depending on who I work with that day I am told a different way to do something…different orders of steps, different measurements…do I just memorize every person's steps and do as they want when I am with them? I can not really tell them to piss off and let me work…for obvious reasons…but I have set fixtures and soldered and taken the measurements and done the math…I can read blueprints better than most of the people "teaching" me. I know I have only done this for a year. And I am not trying to say I know everything already. But I do know how to set a commode. I have 4 different "bosses" that I cycle through depending on who needs help. And all of them tell me that I am doing it wrong, even though I know I am not. My actual boss tells me to tell them to stfu, but doing that would make it harder for me when I do actually need help. So. Long story short, I have a few questions, just the most major issues…I only do construction btw, so service information is a little unnecessary.
> 1) When setting a commode/urinal do you put thread tape and/or pipe dope on the flush-valve and such, or no?
> 2) Primer on PVC pipe…several rounds with semi-dry brush to reduce trickling, or just slather it on to make sure there is enough?
> 3) Setting a urinal…put pipe dope on the gasket or does that cause problems?
> ...



Well, I've been at it 11 years and there are (many) days that I feel brand new too.

I learn something new every week and the more I learn the less I feel I know. It won't matter how many years you work - you will NEVER comfortably know it all - or even most, in this trade. It's just not possible.

I confer with other plumbers locally when I don't know the answer to something and always do my own research as well. I think sometimes when I'm cramming information into my head, I have a leak and other stuff is coming out somewhere else but, that might just be me.

Anyhow, you can rest assured that at the one year point, you pretty much know nothing about anything. No offence but, it's true. Take advantage of the experience and wisdom (hopefully), around you. Soak up what they're teaching. Do things the way you're told - there is likely a very good reason they are telling you to do something a certain way. You just may not yet know it.

Someday when you're off on your own, you can do what suits you. But, I'll bet you will find yourself doing things the way you were taught.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Qball415 said:


> Doughnut anyone?


 Setting a urinal today?:thumbup:


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

DaJaFa said:


> Ok…so…just passed my first year of plumbing…still have a few basic questions…because depending on who I work with that day I am told a different way to do something…different orders of steps, different measurements…do I just memorize every person's steps and do as they want when I am with them? I can not really tell them to piss off and let me work…for obvious reasons…but I have set fixtures and soldered and taken the measurements and done the math…I can read blueprints better than most of the people "teaching" me. I know I have only done this for a year. And I am not trying to say I know everything already. But I do know how to set a commode. I have 4 different "bosses" that I cycle through depending on who needs help. And all of them tell me that I am doing it wrong, even though I know I am not. My actual boss tells me to tell them to stfu, but doing that would make it harder for me when I do actually need help. So. Long story short, I have a few questions, just the most major issues…I only do construction btw, so service information is a little unnecessary.
> 1) When setting a commode/urinal do you put thread tape and/or pipe dope on the flush-valve and such, or no?
> 2) Primer on PVC pipe…several rounds with semi-dry brush to reduce trickling, or just slather it on to make sure there is enough?
> 3) Setting a urinal…put pipe dope on the gasket or does that cause problems?
> ...


I sort of think you are a homeowner or a hack or both. :furious:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> It looks like "… appears whenever he uses ";" maybe he should forget that key exists and we won't need hellip reading his posts.... :whistling2:


 I viewed that message last night on my Android tablet and thought it was my tablet fuxoring up the message. -- By the time I figured out it wasn't my tablet I'd completely fuxored up all of the settings trying to fix it.

One of the Grandcritters is coming by in about an hour to help poor old Zeyde restore it to factory settings.


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

By the way....WTF is "Hellip"

You owe everyone here an explanation of this, or is this a Dajafa'ism??


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Setting a urinal today?:thumbup:


SWEET! I actually had the chance to install 2 urinals last week!!


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

wyefortyfive said:


> By the way....WTF is "Hellip"
> 
> You owe everyone here an explanation of this, or is this a Dajafa'ism??


 It's an ellipsis.

The "&h" are superfluous characters.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

wyefortyfive said:


> SWEET! I actually had the chance to install 2 urinals last week!!


 I was talking about Qball's donut.:laughing:


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## DaJaFa (Jan 3, 2012)

wyefortyfive said:


> I sort of think you are a homeowner or a hack or both. :furious:


Wait…wtf does that mean??? If you are seriously questioning my being a plumber, let alone an apprentice, you are mistaken…yes, I am soldering, and I have read blueprints and even corrected my "bosses" many times on where things should be. Do I tell them how to do their job? No. I still get looked at like I am a moron because I do not always understand their reasoning and voice a different opinion. Then when I finally see why they said their way I feel stupid. I have run gas line on my own (just because the "boss" that day was lazy as crap and would prefer to be a helper) after being shown how to use the threader a single time. I have set numerous fixtures. Urinals I despise, but commodes and lavs are a different story. I have only set a few showers and eyewashes. I am still not saying that I know everything. I know I am FAR from it. But I have done a lot in my single year. Mostly because we have WAY more large scale jobs than the 7 construction guys can handle. Country clubs, military hospital, Providence hospital, and many more. I really appreciate the constructive criticism. But I never meant to sound like a boob. And your attempt at slander, wyefortyfive, is rather inappropriate.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Your Boss is an ass who is doing you no favors by training you in this non training kind of way. For you to run gas lines is unacceptable I don't care if you are a boy genius!


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

What does that jibberish mean?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

DaJaFa said:


> Wait…wtf does that mean???


 Do you know what an ellipsis is, son?

No?

It's the 3 periods (...) you're throwing in for no apparent reason.

You have 3 choices:

1) Stop using them (the ellipsis).

2) Correct the settings on your phone.

3) Continue as you have been and find yourself added to the ignore list of the folks who do not find you interesting enough to bother continuing to parse your posts.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

DaJaFa said:


> I still get looked at like I am a moron because I do not always understand their reasoning and voice a different opinion. Then when I finally see why they said their way I feel stupid.


That should be a clue. No?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

MarkToo said:


> That should be a clue. No?


 It's too bad our educational system is so fuqued up.

Teaching ordinary children that they must somehow be geniuses/savants because they dare to question the status quo helps no one.

Not every child is Special.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> It's too bad our educational system is so fuqued up.
> 
> Teaching ordinary children that they must somehow be geniuses/savants because they dare to question the status quo helps no one.
> 
> Not every child is Special.



Our system is a mess too.

The way I see it, we've gone through three iterations of education - at 45 years old, I'll admit I was funneled through in the second category but, thanks to my parents and their values I think I've pulled through.

*1. You must excel to be rewarded.
*
Then things changed...

*2. You need only do your "best" to be rewarded.
*
Now...

*3. You will be rewarded the same as everyone else regardless of your efforts or productivity.
*
You're right. We're doing no one any favours here and it's becoming a serious burden on society.

I'm off topic. Need some blood pressure pills or something. Thanks WS.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> Your Boss is an ass who is doing you no favors by training you in this non training kind of way. For you to run gas lines is unacceptable I don't care if you are a boy genius!


I agree your boss must be one of the biggest azzwipes in this business.
1st yr apprentice running gas.... Your shop is a joke kid.


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## HOMER (Jun 5, 2011)

Qball415 said:


> Doughnut anyone?


 
mmmmmmmmm

doughnut


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

Did your boss let you size the gas run ?
All I did for 2 years was watch, listen and learn.
When I gave my opinion I got sent to the store for a long weight and a long wait is what I got, the left handed screwdriver always blew my mind, what about those sky hooks thingys. 
Well I have been plumbing for 24 years now and I'm going to install my first toilet next, yeh.
I think its 12" wall to center, hellip guys.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

In the first year of my plumbing career I was rough-in houses all by my self...... Was my boss some kind of azzwipe??????

No he was my father


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

Damn sounds like some of you had it rough :laughing:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> In the first year of my plumbing career I was rough-in houses all by my self...... Was my boss some kind of azzwipe??????
> 
> No he was my father


That's so "Old School"...


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> That's so "Old School"...


That's so. ..... Maybe some guys on here are slow learners


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## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

But when we learned we were tought how to make our own lead boss and straps from sheet lead and weld it, full lead flashings, make all our own bends and couplings in copper and mild steel. Times change.
We also had bench exams and was judged heavy on what we could do and how well we did it.
It peeeees me off that people think they are plumbers because they go to blowes and can repair a leak with a shark bite...
The only way is the right way.
Any idiot can read a book and answer a question from it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I did some running of pipe when I was a 1st year. Whenever there was a ditch to be dug, or material to move, I was the guy to do it. When we had a lull in biotch work, I got to do some plumbing. That's not saying I didn't spend weeks coring holes, or running a jack hammer but I did get to do some plumbing.

I remember when I was 3 months in and I was installing flush valves faster than the journeyman next to me. The journeyman was a drunk, one of those union guys that bounced from shop to shop working during the busy season and sitting home the rest of the year. The kind of guy that no longer has a job. Looking back, my forman just put me on installing the valves to embarrass the drunkard. I'm sure it took twice the time it would take me to set a flush valve today. 

In any case, I gradually got to do more plumbing as the higher ups saw I could do some stuff. Waste was real difficult to install when you don't really understand pitch, or venting systems requirements (trap to vent distance, circut venting ect.). By the time I was a 4th year I was working pretty much independantly, even having journeyman under me occasionally. Looking back at my first year though, it's amazing what I thought I knew vs what I actually did. 

I always thought setting carrier toilets was super easy, until I worked with a guy that literally set thousands of them. He made me look like a moron, admittedly not hard to do... After working with him for a few days and him teaching me his tricks, I NOW know how to set a carrier toilet. Point being, you may think you know what you're doing but, someone will come along that will make you look stupid. Either by being faster, or neater, or using less fittings. One of the wisest men I know, my father, told me the second you stop thinking about doing a job faster or better is the day you retire. There's always a better way than your last job, you never reach perfection. The goal is to try, just worry about your skills and not "correcting" your boss. Even if he's wrong, he earned the right to be the boss. Getting your card is an accomplishment, you haven't accomplished shiot yet. Try and remember that.


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## DaJaFa (Jan 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> In the first year of my plumbing career I was rough-in houses all by my self...... Was my boss some kind of azzwipe??????
> 
> No he was my father


Thank you. You may not have been agreeing with me, but that is why I am stuck with rushing. My father-in-law owns the company, along with his brother. My father -in-law is retiring in 5 years and he is leaving his part to me. He is not the one leaving me to myself. When he is there he finds a random hole for me to dig. The people he leaves me with, some I am afraid to refer to a journeymen, are the ones tat make me run 1" gas line after showing me the threader once. 1 has done this for 10 years and didn't know what side to put an ADA flush handle of a commode on. I already did. One with 15 years asked me to find some info for him in the submittal and on the blueprints 'cause he cannot read them. I never said I was a "genius" or anything like that! I have been made to learn more than I should by lazy "plumbers". The only "boss" that won't let me do anything is the one teaching me the most. Him and my actual boss are always chewing the other people I am left with for making me do everything, but they are also surprised that I did do it, and usually right. So please stop hounding my ass about stuff I never said. I just had some questions, and now regret it. 

P.S. I actually DO know what an ellipsis is, and I use them properly because that is usually how I talk, but I will forgo them from now on.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I knew *How*

Way longer than I knew *why*

I learned the *why* when I went to trade school..... thats when the lights came on


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Most of use remember our first year, I thought I knew all about the trade. Then somewhere around my 3rd year I realized what an iodt I was my first year. Experience is everything the more you can get the better off you will be when it is your time to lead.


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

My master mentor plumber once told me,
"You are not a Plumber till you learn and understand the theory of plumbing".
Words of advice to live by when you think you know it all.


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