# Boiler and water heater job



## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)




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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Uh ohhhhhhh........ noooooooooooo...... crrrrrrrryyyy


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Uh ohhhhhhh........ noooooooooooo...... crrrrrrrryyyy


I know I didn't pump away from the expansion tank


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> I know I didn't pump away from the expansion tank


Why not??


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> I know I didn't pump away from the expansion tank


The air scoop won't do sh*t when piped that way..


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Why not??


Bad habits.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> The air scoop won't do sh*t when piped that way..


Is it because it's to close to that black 90?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> Bad habits.


Piss poor excuse... u did it coz the pump electric bx came that length... why that brand boiler??


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Piss poor excuse... u did it coz the pump electric bx came that length... why that brand boiler??


Haha. I've been doing it that way for years. Never had a problem with air or heat. 
Slant-fin is so easy to work on


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> Haha. I've been doing it that way for years. Never had a problem with air or heat.
> Slant-fin is so easy to work on


Then why bother installing air scoop if u never had problem with it?


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Then why bother installing air scoop if u never had problem with it?


I figured it was working 
I can't see pumping away from the tank would make such a big deal. I see circ on the return pipe. Expansion tanks in different locations. There's never a problem with air or heat.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Pumping away from the tank increases the pressure to help break up the air. 
I haven't came across air problems with any boiler I installed yet. Maybe because 90% of them are cast iron oil units. Not high eff gas units


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

vinpadalino said:


> Pumping away from the tank increases the pressure to help break up the air.
> I haven't came across air problems with any boiler I installed yet. Maybe because 90% of them are cast iron oil units. Not high eff gas units


Get some Dan's books


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Air scoop ?? U mean air separator ?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Air scoop ?? U mean air separator ?


Same priciple but designed different


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Job looks good but for some reason I always do my pump on the return just the way I was taught


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

damn... youre pressure in the upper floors may drop negative when pumping into the expansion tank.. That scoop is not a air separator its needs 18'' of straight pipe.. that boiler appears to be non condensing? i dont see a return temp protection without it that heat exchanger wont last long. workmanship looks good though..


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike Jessome said:


> Job looks good but for some reason I always do my pump on the return just the way I was taught


You were taught wrong..


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I was taught never pump in to boiler. Always pump out of boiler


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I was taught never pump in to boiler. Always pump out of boiler


I can think of every reason to pump into the boiler, but not one good reason to pump out.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Pump

Into chiller 
Out of boiler 
It's how I was taught and how all the hydronic jobs I did wer engineered 
When you pump into the boiler you bring up the pressure in it and can cause it to blow the t&p.


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Pump Into chiller Out of boiler It's how I was taught and how all the hydronic jobs I did wer engineered When you pump into the boiler you bring up the pressure in it and can cause it to blow the t&p.


I have never seen that happen ever. But I'm an see a situation or two where that could possibly arise.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

I think RJ is going to tell you to buy a Dan hoolihan (sp) book as well burner tech. Lol


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

redbeardplumber said:


> I think RJ is going to tell you to buy a Dan hoolihan (sp) book as well burner tech. Lol


 I've seen it done every which way. I feel that this is one of those subjects where there is a proper answer for doing it out in or return. And I have more books than my home can handle on hydronics heating and steam I don't think I need another. But maybe one more won't hurt


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Supply and return.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Burner tech said:


> I have never seen that happen ever. But I'm an see a situation or two where that could possibly arise.


I see it all the time


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> You were taught wrong..


Great answer to prove your theory lol


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> Great answer to prove your theory lol


Uh oh. Tsunami warning!!!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike Jessome said:


> Great answer to prove your theory lol


 I was taught wrong til I read Dan's books and study why Europe have better heating system than sorched air USA system. In fact, I just did a boiler replacement job at my late uncle's home. He's the one that taught me the service trade, he lamented me for having pump on supply.. well, the system he installed back then, I see all kind of problems, the new boiler have the pump on supply for obvisous reasons.


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

I mentioned this discussion to my boss. I just had a lengthy lecture about where and why you mount pump for every which way you can think of. Im pretty sure Im going to get a whole new slew of reading material dropped on my desk monday morning.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

It's good for u. Read threads here


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

Regarding the install photo: I recommend installing a ball valve and a tee with a hose bibb between the air scoop and the expansion tank' this allows you to isolate the expansion tank and depressurize the water to take an accurate pressure reading in the expansion tanks bladder and it also allows a rapid replacement of it with minimal air introduced to the system when it eventually fails.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

CaberTosser said:


> Regarding the install photo: I recommend installing a ball valve and a tee with a hose bibb between the air scoop and the expansion tank' this allows you to isolate the expansion tank and depressurize the water to take an accurate pressure reading in the expansion tanks bladder and it also allows a rapid replacement of it with minimal air introduced to the system when it eventually fails.


Regardless, the air scoop is totally useless on this job...


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Regardless, the air scoop is totally useless on this job...


 It would be nicer had it been located higher and its branches taken off the bottom of it, though really when you have distribution piping at higher elevations in the system there will need to be air vents in them anyways. Locating the air scoop higher and taking off the supplies and returns from the bottom of the header would help somewhat but still wouldn't eliminate this.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

CaberTosser said:


> It would be nicer had it been located higher and its branches taken off the bottom of it, though really when you have distribution piping at higher elevations in the system there will need to be air vents in them anyways. Locating the air scoop higher and taking off the supplies and returns from the bottom of the header would help somewhat but still wouldn't eliminate this.


 Why not just buy a boiler with air scoop built in??? Junkdirk boilers (and their rebadged boilers) don't have them and which is why you see many of them on Craiglist, systems been hacked, changed over to sorched air system, thanks to forced air comapnies that basterdized the comfort system.


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