# A question for you commercial new installers.



## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I have a question. I had a wall hung toilet leaking call today. The pipe 4" pipe coming out of the carriage(that's what we call them) was black like ABS but didn't feel right for abs. The end was either threaded or grooved not sure which, only 1/4 " was protruding. The pipe was cracked. I was just wondering if it was threaded in or had some sort of fernco setup. I have only seen cast coming out of the wall. Granted all the stuff I see is old and is getting repaired. 
Thanks


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

There should be a black plastic nipple threaded into the carrier where the neoprene seals.... 1/4" is not far enough out to seal...Hope that helps...

Commercial ain't my specialty though...I'm sure someone else will be along shortly...


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

It's threaded with o ring on it for the seal to the carriage !!! I find on those I like to use a dome ring instead of a wax one !! What was on it ??? You want a 1/2 to 3/8 past finish wall on the stub out !! You should be able to get a new stub out or try a 4 " sch 80 plastic threaded nipple and cut to fit !!!


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

here is some info http://media.wattswater.com/8186409.pdf


http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=1327


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Threaded in also it needs to be3/8 from wall buy a new sponge dasket and rtv sealent make sure the treads hae nut and washer flush to wall before u re install


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Airgap said:


> There should be a black plastic nipple threaded into the carrier where the neoprene seals.... 1/4" is not far enough out to seal...Hope that helps...


Is it ABS and can it be replaced with metal? 

Is it common for them to crack it looks like 50% of the toilets have the same issue?

What I usually see is 1/2 inch does that sound right?

Thanks


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> It's threaded with o ring on it for the seal to the carriage !!! I find on those I like to use a dome ring instead of a wax one !! What was on it ??? You want a 1/2 to 3/8 past finish wall on the stub out !! You should be able to get a new stub out or try a 4 " sch 80 plastic threaded nipple and cut to fit !!!



They had a wax ring or two and about 3 tubes of sillycone. I like the foam rings myself. That's not a problem(as long as you stock up when our supply house finally gets them in). Sounds like a winner with the nipple I'm sure I'll need to order them, the guys at my Locke didn't know what sch 80 was told me they didn't have any. When I found some about 2 weeks later it was "Ohh they gray stuff".

Thanks


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I usualy put 3/8 keeps it snug to wall without over tightinig. I asume u can use metal gonna be a pita to get the measument from wall thouge I usualy screw in pvc with strap wrench and then use a inside cutter to cut pipe bevel edge works like a camp


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

DesertOkie said:


> Is it ABS and can it be replaced with metal?
> 
> Is it common for them to crack it looks like 50% of the toilets have the same issue?
> 
> ...


They crack and seep all the time...Usually set out too far and get cracked...More like 3/8" to 1/2"...

I don't think you can get a metal replacement.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> Is it ABS and can it be replaced with metal?
> 
> Is it common for them to crack it looks like 50% of the toilets have the same issue?
> 
> ...


1/2" should be fine. Im not sure if the thread on that nipple is NPT or not, but if you were to order a 4" carrier (that's what us northerners call them) nipple in CIMJ, IM sure it would work. Every post in this thread so far has been informative.

Zurn is spec'd about 99.9% of the time round hrre, and they arr very user friendly. You can order them in a multitude of configurations. I see the occasional Watts as well, but not too often.

Hope this helps!

UA


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I believe they are a straight thread, not NPT.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

revenge said:


> I usualy put 3/8 keeps it snug to wall without over tightinig. I asume u can use metal gonna be a pita to get the measument from wall thouge I usualy screw in pvc with strap wrench and then use a inside cutter to cut pipe bevel edge works like a camp


If I can get the sch 80 I'll do that, sounds like it can be done without tearing stuff up. As a service only guy I feel like I am ten years behind the times, I only see stuff when it breaks.

The good/bad news is; there is lots of poly and cpvc in OK.:thumbup: 

I wish I would have had a chance to do some big stuff in AZ, new houses were done by illegals and the mech guys didn't pay so well. Now that I'm in rural OK it's slim pickings for jobs of any kind.

Thanks again.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> Is it ABS and can it be replaced with metal?
> 
> Is it common for them to crack it looks like 50% of the toilets have the same issue?
> 
> ...


If the threads are 4" ips then yes you could replace with metal or maybe even a sch 40 mip with a pup piece or PVC. Surly you can get that!!! I wouldn't worry so much about the o ring , I'd just apply a good bit of Teflon tape and pipe dope


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

The ABS ones are the only ones I've ever installed. I don't think metal is available.

Plastic is fine. The carrier and rods hold the china. There should be zero stress on the nipple.

Do they have back-up nuts on all but one rod?


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

In the past I have used a 4" dwv pvc male adapter to replace the nipple when it cracks then just cut a make up piece to whatever length u need . I like using the cant leaks on the wall hung toilets because u get the best of both with a neoprene gasket with a little wax to seal it up.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

U666A said:


> 1/2" should be fine. Im not sure if the thread on that nipple is NPT or not, but if you were to order a 4" carrier (that's what us northerners call them) nipple in CIMJ, IM sure it would work. Every post in this thread so far has been informative.
> 
> Zurn is spec'd about 99.9% of the time round hrre, and they arr very user friendly. You can order them in a multitude of configurations. I see the occasional Watts as well, but not too often.
> 
> ...


I did some camera work for a company that was refurbing a manufacturing plant. They had whole bathroom groups prefabbed and ready to drop in, it was pretty cool. I'm not sure why they wanted to keep all the old sewer they could, but I jetted and camered for a week.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Airgap said:


> I believe they are a straight thread, not NPT.


Not familiar with the term "Rolling thread" but that is a screen shot of a page I was looking at.

OF COURSE you can buy a no hub nipple!!! Call your supplier. Guaranteed.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

ILPlumber said:


> The ABS ones are the only ones I've ever installed. I don't think metal is available.
> 
> Plastic is fine. The carrier and rods hold the china. There should be zero stress on the nipple.
> 
> Do they have back-up nuts on all but one rod?



Every thing I could see looked good. Given the scumbag that did the work it cold have been bad to start. I take it the toilet end is not usually threaded. 

I re-piped the vents at another location for the same company. No vent to air, 1 studder vent vertical, 2 horizontal, 2 in walls behind tile. When I was there they asked me to camera a line we keep running for TP cloggs. Found a piece of broken pvc, when I was trying to locate the line, a helpful but probably illegal guy working for the scumbag on a new addition showed me where they repaired the pipe because they backhoe through it. 

The guy got there and said they never hit anything, didn't know what that was in the pipe and it probably ran some other way. I pointed to his amigo and let him know what he said, I'm not sure when INS got there. Sad part is they will keep using the low balling SOB for all their work.


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## hottrodd (Nov 2, 2011)

I always made sure the back up nuts and washers are set right. I was taught washer 1/16 off finished wall. The jr smith carrier nipples work nice due to the adjusting coupling at the toilet end. This nipple has a running thread on the entire length. Just cut it short and use the adjustable end with permatex to set 3/8 off wall. I haven't seen a steel nipple in a few yrs. I like using the smith neoprene gaskets they have an indentation that the nipple fits into perfectly. On floor mount back outlet they were always the hot setup.


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

Need to make sure the back of nuts and washers are set right. I was also taught 1/16" off the wall as mentioned above. When you set the toilet, do not the tighten the upper right nut, you will tighten the other three first then just run down the upper right hand tight and snug it a little with your wrench. Toot tight and you'll risking cracking the bowl.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> The ABS ones are the only ones I've ever installed. I don't think metal is available.


We were not allowed to install plastic in the city, the ABS nipple was replaced with a piece of 4" galvanized pipe, we were able to get away with Sch 40 pipe, so for most we would order a bunch of 12" nipples and get two carrier nipples out of each nipple. 3/8" strong from finish wall is the minimum.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> I have a question. I had a wall hung toilet leaking call today. The pipe 4" pipe coming out of the carriage(that's what we call them) was black like ABS but didn't feel right for abs. The end was either threaded or grooved not sure which, only 1/4 " was protruding. The pipe was cracked. I was just wondering if it was threaded in or had some sort of fernco setup. I have only seen cast coming out of the wall. Granted all the stuff I see is old and is getting repaired.
> Thanks


I installed a couple of Zurn wc wall carriers a few months back, the nipple/stub outs were abs solvent weld (no threads). Rubber gasket with glue to seal the wc to the nipple/stub out. The only stress on the nipple/stub out was from three set screws on the carrier that holds the nipple center. You may want to make sure set screws are not over tightend.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

hottrodd said:


> I always made sure the back up nuts and washers are set right. I was taught washer 1/16 off finished wall. The jr smith carrier nipples work nice due to the adjusting coupling at the toilet end. This nipple has a running thread on the entire length. Just cut it short and use the adjustable end with permatex to set 3/8 off wall. I haven't seen a steel nipple in a few yrs. I like using the smith neoprene gaskets they have an indentation that the nipple fits into perfectly. On floor mount back outlet they were always the hot setup.


 

The J.R. Smith nipples used with the adjust to wall coupling are taper thread on the end that goes into the carrier and a running thread on the coupling end.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

A belated update. The "pipe" in the carrier was all thread. We ended up cutting the POS out. I tried a gal nipple but didn't like how it sat, and ended up using a 4" mip and a little sch 40. The setting of the washers were all different, so I set them right. I ended up needing some washers, I think that's why the nuts were all set so F-ed up. 

Thanks for all your help.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> A belated update. The "pipe" in the carrier was all thread. We ended up cutting the POS out. I tried a gal nipple but didn't like how it sat, and ended up using a 4" mip and a little sch 40. The setting of the washers were all different, so I set them right. I ended up needing some washers, I think that's why the nuts were all set so F-ed up.
> 
> Thanks for all your help.


If it was all thread, it was a zurn nipple. J.R. Smith that I came across used a nipple with a carrer coupling that threaded on the end of the nipple. Also if you buy a Zurn Neo-Seal gasket the box tells you how to adjust the backup nuts and washers to fit the bowl you are setting, since each bowl has a differnt horn depth.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> If it was all thread, it was a zurn nipple. J.R. Smith that I came across used a nipple with a carrer coupling that threaded on the end of the nipple. Also if you buy a Zurn Neo-Seal gasket the box tells you how to adjust the backup nuts and washers to fit the bowl you are setting, since each bowl has a differnt horn depth.


I measure each bowl depth, too. I make a lot of money repairing wall hung toilets. I just ran into one that had a threaded cast iron nipple, with straight threads. I boogered up the carrier threads, but found the a 4" x 20" nipple in the sparkies laydown area and chased the threads with it, loaded up the new ABS barrel with RTV and now there's no leak and no stink.


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