# Michigan Journeyman Exam Coming up! Have you ever taken it here?



## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Ok, the Michigan journeyman exam is next week....my apprentice is taking it.

Does anyone have any pointers or tips on the copper project?

An info helps! Thx.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I would think you have taught him everything he should need to know...What a question!


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

I took it in the early 70's! Now it is much different. I paid for him to take a prep course. It is a tough test, and has a 75%-90% fail rate.

He IS taught well. Very well.

But there is a difference in working in the field and taking Michigan's exams.

Anything extra that may help, I thought would be great.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Let me think...

Sand end of copper tube
Ream inside copper tube
Chamfer end of copper tube
Clean inside of fitting
Ream inside of fitting
Apply flux to tubing and fitting
Insert tube into fitting with twist
Unroll solder bend tip to diameter of tubing
Apply heat to tubing first so it expands inside fitting 
Heat fitting
Remove heat
Apply solder all around joint
If joint is heated correctly, solder will be drawn in
Wipe away blobs with dry rag.
Allow joint to set before cleaning flux residue.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

The copper practical is the toughest part from what others say. Most fail it.

I did a lead wipe, and they tested it by banging it on the ground to see if it gave out. But again , that was in 1972.

Michigan dang near threatens you if you happen to mention anything about there exams to ANYONE! 

I once had a former Michigan official tell me "We design that test for you to fail"


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Find a union plumber to show him how to pass it. everybody else including myself fumble through the copper exam. the union guys are taught how to pass it. It is all in how you lay your board out.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

saysflushable said:


> Find a union plumber to show him how to pass it. everybody else including myself fumble through the copper exam. the union guys are taught how to pass it. It is all in how you lay your board out.


The guy should be ok, he is taught well VERY well as swedish already stated.


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Ok you taught him very well and he took the prep course so why should he have any problems???


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Lmp said:


> Ok you taught him very well and he took the prep course so why should he have any problems???


Hopefully there will be no problems. Like I said, the failure rate is extremely high. Anyone who recently has taken it could possibly pass on some things that may be very informative.

Prep courses are ok, but not enough. 

I do not care who you are, or how good you are. You can be the best of the best in the field, but once you take the Michigan plumbing exam whether it is Journey or Masters, you will realize that any little grain of extra info is GOLD! What you do in the field is almost irrelevant.

Any Michigan plumber will tell you this.


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Oh ok sorry didn't know the michigan exam was so difficult, or maybe it's your apprentice who like you said in previous post has failed it twice? And just in case before anybody thinks I'm saying the Michigan exam is easy, I Am NOT SAYING IT Is! Maybe the third time is a charm? Also Like you said only someone who took the Michigan exam will know, in my eyes that's a knock at everybody who hasn't taken it,does that mean I can't pass it? Even if I took the NYC master plumber written test and practical which consist of a copper and steel project and passed on the first try!!! Again I'm not saying your exam is easier or harder I saying dont say only a michigan plumber will understand, cause I'm a NYC plumber and I understand how difficult any practical exam is!


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Just tell him to take a deep breath , and relax . Most guys will fail a practical exam because of one the biggest reason ( PRESSURE ) it will get to them and rattle their brain. Here in NYC they want you to fold under pressure , that's why the union guys who are grading your exam walk around and watch you like you are dealing with a atomic bomb !!! Lol So I wish him the best on the day he takes his exam , we have all been through it at one time , he will look back , and say " I passed " and he will be giving the same advice.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Lmp said:


> Oh ok sorry didn't know the michigan exam was so difficult, or maybe it's your apprentice who like you said in previous post has failed it twice? And just in case before anybody thinks I'm saying the Michigan exam is easy, I Am NOT SAYING IT Is! Maybe the third time is a charm? Also Like you said only someone who took the Michigan exam will know, in my eyes that's a knock at everybody who hasn't taken it,does that mean I can't pass it? Even if I took the NYC master plumber written test and practical which consist of a copper and steel project and passed on the first try!!! Again I'm not saying your exam is easier or harder I saying dont say only a michigan plumber will understand, cause I'm a NYC plumber and I understand how difficult any practical exam is!


I was not taking a stab at your state's exam. As we all know, every state is different, and with someone who has taken the exam in Michigan, could be informative. That is all.

As we all know, even within our own states, getting individual municipalities on the same page is practically impossible.

I am sure every exam in every state is tough...they are meant to be. Just looking to hear from a Michigan plumber who recently has taken it. 

Cheers.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

I am serious about finding a union guy to help him!!! we all just fumble through and wonder how we past the copper exam. Not the union guys, they are taught how to lay out the board(copper project board). and how to support everything. with what is aloud. 

just so you guys from other states know, the copper portion has little to do with soldering. a monkey can solder. I can't think of when in the field I would be asked to do what they want on this project? Maybe a pipefitter would build stuff like this? It wasn't easy for me or anyone else I know if they were non union. we just fumbled through and hopefully past. many and I mean many don't.


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Here NYC we have to do a 3" cooper project : 3" cap piece of pipe a 3" coupling a piece of pipe a 3 x 1 1/2 reducer , a piece of 1 1/2 pipe, then a 1 1/2 x 1/2 reducer with a 1/2 inch street female adapter , they give you the measurement of what the project should be , and you must figure it out , must be soldered in the vertical , with no drips and you can't be off more than a 1/4 on your soldered and over all measurement . And it is tested with 100 psi for leaks

What type of project is yours ?


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Plumber71 said:


> Here NYC we have to do a 3" cooper project : 3" cap piece of pipe a 3" coupling a piece of pipe a 3 x 1 1/2 reducer , a piece of 1 1/2 pipe, then a 1 1/2 x 1/2 reducer with a 1/2 inch street female adapter , they give you the measurement of what the project should be , and you must figure it out , must be soldered in the vertical , with no drips and you can't be off more than a 1/4 on your soldered and over all measurement . And it is tested with 100 psi for leaks
> 
> What type of project is yours ?


You forgot to mention the steel project we have to do also!


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Yeah , I only mention the cooper because that seems to be what they are worried about . I wonder if any other state makes you do a steel project like NYC ?


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Nice!!!!!!


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Plumber71 said:


> Nice!!!!!!


How many did u save? I saved 2 pairs, 1 hanging in my office and 1 in my man cave. The rest went to the scrap yard had to get some money back. Lol


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

A pair of each , that is one time in my life practicing for that exam I hated... Lol 
There was nothing fun about taking that exam


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Did you take manny's course ?


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## ibeplumber (Sep 20, 2011)

Lmp said:


> Did you take manny's course ?


Where is manny's?


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Our project is a 3/4 on the bottom with 2 or 3 t' pointing up and a 45 pointing up then at different heights 90's all pointing in the same direction. all capped and ready for air test and to be fit in a jig for proper dimentions.

Sorry I don't know how to describe what it looks like. .

That new york copper project looks sensible to test ones abilities I don't know what ours tests. same with wiping a lead joint it was rediculios to test that for so many years. I took my test 2 test cycles after the lead wiping was eliminated.


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

ibeplumber said:


> Where is manny's?


It's in NYC


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Would love to see what that cooper project looks like ! But it's like all these exams , they are a Beauty contest !!!


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Yes , I took Manny's class


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Plumber71 said:


> Yes , I took Manny's class


Best money I ever spent!


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## Plumber71 (Dec 20, 2010)

Without his class and him teaching all the little tricks to put those projects together it would have been really difficult , I agree best money I ever spent , every penny


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Lmp said:


> Oh ok sorry didn't know the michigan exam was so difficult, *or maybe it's your apprentice who like you said in previous post has failed it twice?*


Ahhh we have to find this detail in another thread?
Were the other 2 times while under your training as well?
How many times can he take the test before a forced career change?

Perhaps if he is apprehensive about taking the test it is because he isn't ready...
He should be an expert at taking the test by now....:whistling2:


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## Aplumberswife (Oct 16, 2011)

Doug has taken the MI journeyman & masters. He swears by ivory sims prep course for both tests. Doug has also taken both test in Colorado, MI was far more difficult. Just be confident in your knowledge and skill. He said the worst part is waiting for your results, about 6 weeks.


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Who is Doug?


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Lmp said:


> Who is Doug?


Her husband.


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## swedishcharm21 (Oct 29, 2011)

Aplumberswife said:


> Doug has taken the MI journeyman & masters. He swears by ivory sims prep course for both tests. Doug has also taken both test in Colorado, MI was far more difficult. Just be confident in your knowledge and skill. He said the worst part is waiting for your results, about 6 weeks.



I know Ivory very well! i appreciate your input. we are unfortunately 250 miles from him. My guy took a prep, and he is looking good. 

and to all the others....I started this thread, and i asked only michigan plumbers to respond. all of your wise A$$ remarks are not needed.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

swedishcharm21 said:


> and to all the others....I started this thread, and i asked only michigan plumbers to respond. all of your wise A$$ remarks are not needed.


Where? :whistling2:



swedishcharm21 said:


> Ok, the Michigan journeyman exam is next week....my apprentice is taking it.
> 
> Does anyone have any pointers or tips on the copper project?
> 
> Any info helps! Thx.


This may help you out... :whistling2:


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## Aplumberswife (Oct 16, 2011)

Too bad your so far away. We are luckily enough to be near by. Does he have anyone to run thru stuff with? Like a study group? Doug gave me flash cards to go thru with him when he took his Jm in MI. That how I started to learn a little about the codes. It even helps the person asking the questions. When guys Doug was working with studied, I made them all dinner and they would go over everything to prep again a few days before the test so it stayed fresh in their minds. I don't know if that helps.


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