# Thermal imaging



## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

Has anyone used thermal imaging to locate water leaks? Do they work on slab leaks?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

johntheplumber said:


> Has anyone used thermal imaging to locate water leaks? Do they work on slab leaks?


Loaded question. No not by themselves.


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

Gettinit said:


> Loaded question. No not by themselves.


Advice please.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

johntheplumber said:


> Advice please.


What do you want to know?


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

Gettinit said:


> What do you want to know?


Thinking of purchasing a Flir i5 to help locate leaks. I know it will help in the walls but wanted to know if it would locate leaks through a slab. What would need to be done to make it work on a slab? Air?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

johntheplumber said:


> Thinking of purchasing a Flir i5 to help locate leaks. I know it will help in the walls but wanted to know if it would locate leaks through a slab. What would need to be done to make it work on a slab? Air?


Not sure why you would need it for leaks in a wall. That should be obvious. As far as slabs go it may help to narrow down an area to get started leak detecting but the leak detector can do that as well without spending the extra cash on the imager. Here is the problem; You come in a restaurant and you find that the cold is leaking...you are boned. Well, lets say it is the how line. It has been leaking for a long time like usual. Now the leak is in the kitchen (nice wide open area) the hall from the back door to the line is hot, all 30'. Now what? The water is likely getting up above the plastic and running. A hand on the floor would be just as helpful. Sometimes they are buried deep enough you will not notice a difference in slab temp. Without the proper leak detection equipment you are likely to look bad. The imager is to compliment a leak detector not make one. They are nice to track down pipes in commercial and industrial buildings when prints are unavailable. Other than that it isn't much help for a plumber.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

When comparing brands Flir is a cut above IMO.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

If you are trying to locate hot water slab leaks an electrical scanner is what you need.
You will be able to scan a floor and find a hot spot. You can than redial scanner to find the hottest spot inside of the original hot spot. You also need leak detection because some hot water leaks deplete water heater supply and do not create a hot spot.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

The bear said:


> If you are trying to locate hot water slab leaks an electrical scanner is what you need.
> You will be able to scan a floor and find a hot spot. You can than redial scanner to find the hottest spot inside of the original hot spot. You also need leak detection because some hot water leaks deplete water heater supply and do not create a hot spot.



Or the hot spot is where it is finding its way through the ground.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

I would say that when I detect a hot spot locating a slab leak that the leak is within a foot of that area. I have been using this scanner for over 19 years. Unfortunately most of are leaks our cold water on copper systems. Hot water slab leaks tend to be on old galvanized systems.Also hot water leaks on older cpvc systems under slab.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

The bear said:


> I would say that when I detect a hot spot locating a slab leak that the leak is within a foot of that area. I have been using this scanner for over 19 years. Unfortunately most of are leaks our cold water on copper systems. Hot water slab leaks tend to be on old galvanized systems.


You are lucky or I am unlucky over and over again. If I didn't have leak detection I would have been off up to 12' before. Happened quite a lot with the other national franchise too. I will try to pull up pics from one job in-particular. It had three hot spots at three very different locations and neither of them were leaks.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

When I show up on a leak locate an it is on the hot side it makes my day. I also verify leak with detector and make sure hot spot is over pipe system.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

The bear said:


> When I show up on a leak locate an it is on the hot side it makes my day. I also verify leak with detector and make sure hot spot is over pipe system.



Why make sure? This is my point. He is looking for one as a stand alone tool.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

You and I know that any good locator will verify location of piping under slab.I do not know of any one tool that can be used for leak detecting on it's own. I tend to be overly cautious on all my locates. Even if scanner gives me the hot spot I will still go through my normal locating procedures.I carry three leak detectors (different manufacturers),pipe locators,tracer gas detector, electronic scanner, and two nitrogen bottles as standard equipment on my service van.I also drill a 1/4" hole on every leak before busting slab.I can be OCD at times.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johntheplumber said:


> Has anyone used thermal imaging to locate water leaks? Do they work on slab leaks?


I use the dog..


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

I would think, and this is not my specialty, that a powerful enough thermal scanner could penetrate. I know my limitations and that is why I sub out most of my locates to a dedicated locator. I would love nothin more than to become an expert at this but running a business and working out in the field makes it difficult for me to find the time. 

I own a compressor and a great pair of geo-phones. 

I know there has to be a more hi-tech way to do this.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

I started with geo phones 20 years ago.I keep them in my desk draw as a souvenir.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpq2b8dbaxnzkpk/Hall.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/s/55sfmpvqzpr053k/Hall 2.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pavwme3ia9e75h5/Hall 3.pdf


Somebody let me know if they can be seen. May have to log in.

By the way they are crude pics of my first job with them. I did not have a chance to set it up properly and the report is not really a report. I just wanted to get it moved and it was the fastest way I could think to move them. I have yet to properly do a report.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

johntheplumber said:


> I would think, and this is not my specialty, that a powerful enough thermal scanner could penetrate. I know my limitations and that is why I sub out most of my locates to a dedicated locator. I would love nothin more than to become an expert at this but running a business and working out in the field makes it difficult for me to find the time.
> 
> I own a compressor and a great pair of geo-phones.
> 
> I know there has to be a more hi-tech way to do this.


Imagers do not penetrate. They read surface temperatures. There is more to them but...


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

It looks like your average temp was above 95 deg. Could heat been from a piece of equipment.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

The bear said:


> It looks like your average temp was above 95 deg. Could heat been from a piece of equipment.


I just grabbed a few random pics to make a point. I was taking pics with the tankless on to see the big picture then turned the heater off to see the changes over time then when cooled I started the heaters again. Using it as a stand alone wouldn't work out too hot. There was no equipment in those areas. They were just random hot spots. The water was making its way above the plastic under the concrete and running everywhere. The heater was set to 140.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

How close to the hot spots was the leak.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Epox said:


> How close to the hot spots was the leak.


The closest hot spot was about 6' away the other by the back door was about another 10'. I talked them into a re-pipe when they said it was the third time on the copper line. My locator read it was about 2' deep. 

The most useful my imager has been was on a job where there was a leak on a snow melt system. Yes I said snow melt in NC and I am not in the mountains. I was quickly able to rule out both driveways so I could concentrate in the natural area. What a God send it was for that job.


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