# Back Water Valves



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

In my area there are a few sectors where city sewer back ups are guaranteed when it rains too much. I've had at least 12 calls for sewer back up in one area(last 2 weeks). I don't wan't to get involved in that area, people want more than one back water valve and sump pumps. They need an engineer to come up with something and the city is also to blame. Can of live worm that will jump in your face!! 

To do those BWV I would need a camera, pipe sonde and after installing another BWV there would be no guarantee. I also noticed everyone who called me wanted a free estimate so purchasing a 2400$ sonde for my K-3800 would be for nothing. Not to mention lawsuits when it fails again.

They don't realize a back water valve does not really work. I don't know if any that seal 100%


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

I put them in every new job I do. I use the one that goes on the 4” line on the inside of the house, not the one you bury outside. If I do a sewer replace I sell them on one and put it outside upstream from the cleanout so the rodder doesnt schmelt it. 

Agreed, you cant be liable for a municipal problem. Put that in fine print, no guarantee against backwater! Then install the 12 you got calls for and make some $.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Whole house bwv’s are illegal here, but one city has the same issue and allow them.

The upside is they do protect the house. The downside is you are intentionally putting an obstruction in the main line. I’ve found many lines backed up because of over use of tp. 

Once they close, if the HO or tenants continue to use water and if the secondary lines in the basement aren’t protected as well, then damage will occur. 

I have a house tomorrow that I’ve dealt with in the past. Basement is all checked and the tenant has no idea they have a main line issue until their first floor stool overflows when they let the second floor tub drain a full bath flooding the half bath and kitchen.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> Agreed, you cant be liable for a municipal problem. Put that in fine print, no guarantee against backwater! Then install the 12 you got calls for and make some $.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had written a paragraph but I'll have to re-type. I would like to offer that service however I would need a camera and sonde. Everyone who called me wanted an estimate in their first or second sentence. I bet they all want it free. Hell I bet every other outfit does them free.

Anyway a huge expense to buy a camera and sonde, pulling a toilet running a camera, locating the pipes and all that for free??. It just doesn't add up. Tell me what I'm missing.

They all want guarantees it won't back up again. The thing is they do back up anyway as the new houses all have them! Some have flooded 2-3 times. 2 weeks ago a woman stated 10 times(7 by the previous owner and 3 for her)

Another issue are french drains are connected to the sewer sometimes separate.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

oh. Well I guess saving for a locator/camera is a career long endeavor. 


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> oh. Well I guess saving for a locator/camera is a career long endeavor.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know what you’re razzing.... that’s a big jump for someone who isn’t very busy! I’ve had my camera for three years now? It’s paid for itself, but I still owe on it. I can go two months without a video. The last 30 days I’ve had a half dozen. Just like sump pumps, garbage disposals..... they come in floods!


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> oh. Well I guess saving for a locator/camera is a career long endeavor.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You couldn't have said it better! :vs_cool:

hahaha!


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm not sure what the CA code is for BWV, but in Oregon they were required where any floor of the house was below the nearest upstream manhole.

Also required to be extended to grade and any cleanouts labelled that there is a backwater valve upstream, downstream, whatever applies.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> I know what you’re razzing.... that’s a big jump for someone who isn’t very busy! I’ve had my camera for three years now? It’s paid for itself, but I still owe on it. I can go two months without a video. The last 30 days I’ve had a half dozen. Just like sump pumps, garbage disposals..... they come in floods!


I think I'm ready to buy at least a used locator and new sonde. I had another BWV call this morning. Again first her first words were was I want an estimate....


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Ive been waiting to buy camera locator and sonde for 7 year. I just keep rentin it............


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> Ive been waiting to buy camera locator and sonde for 7 year. I just keep rentin it............
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wish they would rent stuff here. They supposedly used to rent cameras at HD but people would break them so they stopped. There is one place who rents a cam and he told me you had to record the monitor using your cell. 250$ rental fee plus taxes. I never went to see and I think its one of the not so great ones.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

When I get calls for main drains to be cleared, cameraed, replaced or fixed, BWV’s installed, new/upgraded water services, underpinning, foundation waterproofing, etc- I sub it out. 
The guy I sub to gives me kickback for every customer I recommended to him.

I don’t do that type of work, it time consuming labour intensive and dirty, plus I’m way to busy with other service calls.
But-
Answering the phone, and passing along the work, = $200-$500... not bad for 5 mins on the phone.


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

Maybe it's because I'm older and have less expenses.
Maybe because I look for deals and used stuff.
Maybe it's because I'm cheap!
Maybe it's because I'm single?
Maybe it's because I'm a good businessman. 

But I pay cash for all my new toys. (and last two houses - that were cheap)

Maybe I'm living below my means.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

fixitright said:


> Maybe it's because I'm older and have less expenses.
> Maybe because I look for deals and used stuff.
> Maybe it's because I'm cheap!
> Maybe it's because I'm single?
> ...


I'm not sure where you are going with this?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I'll be looking for a used ridgid scout locator with a new sonde and cable adapter. 

Maybe I'm not thinking of everything but just with a locator I can pull a toilet and locate the pipe with RIDGID 16728 Remote Transmitter 512 Hertz. Then I'll run it through the shower drain and do another locate. It should tell me where to put a BWV. Problem is the lav drain and shower 1 1/2" p-trap, I'm not sure the sonde will go through 1 1/2" pipe with the smallest cable I can use with an adapter for 3/8 drum cable. 

19273 Adapter for 5⁄8" (16 mm) Sec. & 3⁄8" (10 mm) Drum Machine Cables

Any flaws and problems with my theory without access to a camera? I could only install BWV for a bathroom and laundry pipe/tub. I wouldn't be able to put another BWV for a french drain if its connected to their main as I wouldn't see it without a camera.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Previous customer who want a BWV installed. It's easy enough to install on the 4" abs but hot damn if I touch that pipe I bet I'll have to break concrete to see the mess that seems to be buried in cement that goes through the foundation. What's to say the pipe will hold as it looks just stuffed in the hub. Then I can't let the 4" and washer hoses all fubar like that.

Oh yeah the hose into the cat wye is the sump pump which should go outside. :vs_OMG:

I'll have to go take a look, I'm not doing a free estimate from my computer chair.

Any ideas? :biggrin:


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Camera it see where she goes, probably be busting that floor up though.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

canuck92 said:


> Camera it see where she goes, probably be busting that floor up though.


Camera is an idea I hadn't thought of, because I just got it. That pipe is the main that has been hacked atrociously.

The part that goes in the concrete is the foundation wall, the part where its abs though the dirt leads to a recent bathroom on the other side of the wall. 

I bet the guy is going to back out when I say to fix all the issues he's looking at over 2.5 to 4K to fix everything. I don't want to get involved if all I do is install a mainline BWV on the ABS.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I got my second BWV phone call since I got my camera ans locator. I talk to this woman and she wants an estimate, her basement flooded by the sump pump pit. 
She says another plumber came by and the basement toilet was installed on a clean out. So I explain I got to camera the line to see if the french drain are connected and see if the sump is connected too and it'll take at least 2 hours to check everything. I tell her the fees and credit so I can provide a quote.

She got annoyed saying I got to pay before even starting! NO!!


It's what I feared more people who demand free work. Please can anyone tell me how a company goes out for free and without checking adequately can give a price??? They might say 1900$ but what if the french drain are tied to the roof gutters or the sump. The customer will flood, they don't care to get sued or something??


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