# You just have to make it work



## hawkeye77 (Feb 20, 2009)

The customer failed to inform me that they wanted 2 sinks until after painting


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

hawkeye77 said:


> The customer failed to inform me that they wanted 2 sinks until after painting


 Glad I don't live around you, I would be pissed off to unstop that thing. Also... A pressure tee?! Don't think a cross with a c/o on top may have been a better option?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

That'll need {4} emergency shut-offs. Sounds like a 'change order' is in your customer's future.

Is that a pressure tee?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I guess when you aren't being inspected anything goes eh?


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## hawkeye77 (Feb 20, 2009)

It sure is they wanted it done and it's all I had I wanted to open the wall and move water and drains but they felt that was unnecessary. I really hate doing things half ass and your right I would want to have to clear a stoppage


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

yes, i know that its against code, but if the sinks were closer together, it would be exactly the same as a kitchen sink with a center outlet waste. so its wrong by code but not that wrong when you think about it.


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> yes, i know that its against code, but if the sinks were closer together, it would be exactly the same as a kitchen sink with a center outlet waste. so its wrong by code but not that wrong when you think about it.


Except that pressure tee has no baffles in it to direct water flow.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

You also forgot to install the faucets


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

that actually does not look too bad.....

you did as good as you possibly could with the 
job that was laid before you.... well done


I would like to see pics after you rig up the water lines to the faucets...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Was the price and scope of work agreed upon prior to you beginning the work? Your customer essentially doubled the amount of faucets, supply lines, shut-off valves, escutcheons and supply lines stub-outs that you now must install. 

Please tell me you have already or will ask for more money...:yes:


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## hawkeye77 (Feb 20, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> that actually does not look too bad..... you did as good as you possibly could with the job that was laid before you.... well done I would like to see pics after you rig up the water lines to the faucets...


if you look at the stops they each have 2 compression feeds The supply lines were connected to them normally the faucets had integral supplies and the left and right faucet supply actually reached the hot and cold closest to it the opposite on each side was extended to reach


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Ohhhh boy. I'm leaving this alone

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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Just please go back and change that to a cross with a clean out on top,,,, please.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Cal said:


> Just please go back and change that to a cross with a clean out on top,,,, please.


 
 I suppose a cleanout would be a good idea, but it looks more streamlined without one....

also, the nut on the pvc trap on the bottom can be taken apart and used as the cleanout if and when it ever needs cleaned out in the next 20 years..

I cant tell anything about the water lines....


but sometimes you just 
got to do what you got to do


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

hawkeye77 said:


> The customer failed to inform me that they wanted 2 sinks until after painting


Not trying to be mean Hawk (remember, you volunteered the pic), but why is that a justification for what you installed? 

Yes, every customer gets a respectful answer. And sometimes the answer is "no". Other than her being your wife or mom, I can't comprehend you making this your problem. 

"They" didn't think it was necessary? And who's fault is that?

How about this scenario...
Doctor: "Mrs. Jones, you leg is broken and you will have to wear this cast.

Jones: "No way doc. I do not like the way it looks and it will not work with my wardrobe or schedule."

Doctor: "Oh my. I never looked at it that way. Let's just put a little gauze and pink tape on it. It'll be just fine."


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## panther (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm with everyone else on this. At least go back and install a double fixture tee with a clean out on top.


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

Think of all the cabinet space you could have saved if you ran some 1 1/2 spa flex tubing instead of all those stupid fittings.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

hawkeye77 said:


> The customer failed to inform me that they wanted 2 sinks until after painting


Ease up fellers,he ran what he had to save him the most money,it actually looks pretty good,yea I would have used a cross there BUT if I could have got done and not had to go back I would have put that pressure tee there just like he did if not gettin inspected,hell yea nothin wrong with it


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

Wouldnt it have to be a double wye for direction of flow instead of a cross?


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

budders said:


> Wouldnt it have to be a double wye for direction of flow instead of a cross?


Sanitary crosses have direction of flow. The clean out on top would be access above the cross for running the line


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I think the best solution would have been a common vent, y off the branch with 2 traps.

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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

I'd probably have pushed to open up the walls, to prevent all that from being in behind the drawers. However, if you get rid if the pressure tee, and use a trap with a CO it would pass here.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

If the bowls are not 30" center to center, 1 trap would be prohibited here. Looks further than 30" to me.

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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

It's open the wall and do it right or, it's a job worthy of a CraigsList Hack...
Come on guys.... Do we have any plumbers here anymore? Sheesh...


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Redwood said:


> It's open the wall and do it right or, it's a job worthy of a CraigsList Hack... Come on guys.... Do we have any plumbers here anymore? Sheesh...


Or what he said, I like that idea better

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

What bothers me about it is that the first thing that you think of when you see it is "oops! Someone screwed up!" That and you'll have to modify the drawers to accommodate the plumbing. Cabinet guys here would get their panties all knotted up over that and complain to the general, General would make me change it. Either way it should be opened up. It's not a hard fix.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

mrjasontgreek said:


> What bothers me about it is that the first thing that you think of when you see it is "oops! Someone screwed up!" That and you'll have to modify the drawers to accommodate the plumbing. Cabinet guys here would get their panties all knotted up over that and complain to the general, General would make me change it. Either way it should be opened up. It's not a hard fix.


Yep... It will scream look at this hacked up mess every time someone sees it...

Damn... That doesn't look like under my sink...
Who was the plumber?
Make sure I don't use him... He's a hack...

Another GC gets off scott free...

Put it right back where it belongs...
The GC done screwed the pooch and it's gonna cost more...


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## wallingford (Nov 16, 2013)

Add a clean out to that and it would be fine by me, of course it's an extra to add in a second lav but I sure wouldn't screw the painter and the cabinet guy buy opening it up. Make the GC realize you are doing him a favor, it will work fine and in my opinion you made the job look good.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

wallingford said:


> Add a clean out to that and it would be fine by me, of course it's an extra to add in a second lav but I sure wouldn't screw the painter and the cabinet guy buy opening it up. Make the GC realize you are doing him a favor, it will work fine and in my opinion you made the job look good.


Don't screw the painter, but screw the cabinet maker instead? Looks like three drawers that need to be shortened to accommodate the piping. A lot harder than pulling a piece of drywall off and putting a new one on. And if it's against code there, it should be changed. It's legal here, but it's still not a great way to do it. If it we're insisted that I do it that way I'd have no valid argument to refuse doing it, but I'd sure push to open the wall.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Somebody gets the short straw, the plumber, the painter or the cabinet maker. If you've got the plumbing code to back you up, use it! "Extra extra! Read all about it! $$$"


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

cut open the wall and fix it right and dont bother with the drywall repair. have the cabinet guy put a back on the cabinet like it should be and the problem is covered and fixed.


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> Or what he said, I like that idea better Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 lol suck up


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> cut open the wall and fix it right and dont bother with the drywall repair. have the cabinet guy put a back on the cabinet like it should be and the problem is covered and fixed.


I don't know, I've been impressed with how badly cabinets can be cut up for the plumbing stub-outs. 

Cabinets without backs look way too cheesey.


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## hawkeye77 (Feb 20, 2009)

mrjasontgreek said:


> What bothers me about it is that the first thing that you think of when you see it is "oops! Someone screwed up!" That and you'll have to modify the drawers to accommodate the plumbing. Cabinet guys here would get their panties all knotted up over that and complain to the general, General would make me change it. Either way it should be opened up. It's not a hard fix.


all the drawers fit no changes needed with the drawers in you won't even see it


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

hawkeye77 said:


> all the drawers fit no changes needed with the drawers in you won't even see it












Is your tail still between your legs?


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

My attitude is I think you made it look clean but its kind of a hack job as far as code goes and if its ok to do that then its ok to just bust out the drywall plumb it right and let whoever deal with it I aint gona be the one patching holes on that. 
But in reality I would reluctantly do something similar to your work but Id run a santee vertical


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## Steveking (May 16, 2014)

Does it drain does water come out of the faucets yes who freaken cares I can't believe all the know it alls on this sight


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## Kevin1985 (Oct 6, 2011)

It's not ideal, but I've seen a lot worse. I probably wouldn't think to much if I ran into this. I might take a picture, but thats about it.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

If it's okay for a plumber to do that than it's okay for me to saw it in half after the trap and put a no-hub on after I clean it out. 

Just saying...


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## Stptog (Jul 13, 2014)

Steveking said:


> Does it drain does water come out of the faucets yes who freaken cares I can't believe all the know it alls on this sight


Yes of course it drains and the water runs, but doing a job with the right materials, accessable taking into consideration the servicablilty of the plumbing system is what makes us professionals!! 

That being said Greenbaster, drain opener works freaking wonders if used properly!


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## redfisher43 (Mar 15, 2011)

A plumber would not do that!:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

redfisher43 said:


> A plumber would not do that!:laughing:


A plumber would also post an introduction here...

Have we met?


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

I'd walk before letting a customer strong arm me into doing something illegal, and problematic for future maintenance. you have to be polite, but firm and find a way of making them think it's their idea. And if after all that they still say no, then politely say that in good conscience I can't finish this. I bet before you haul your first load of tools to the truck, they'll change their tune.


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## redfisher43 (Mar 15, 2011)

Redwood said:


> A plumber would also post an introduction here...
> 
> Have we met?


Sorry, did that.


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

Some amount of high horses here, its a freakin lav drain not life or death, sometimes you got to think outside the box and make things work with the scenario you are given.


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## ShaneP (Nov 20, 2011)

Maybe he had not been paid for the rough in and just needed to finish to get paid. Homeowners do that kind of thing all the time." Oh I didn't know I needed to tell you that I decided to go with two lavs before the drywall went up. Oops sorry! No big deal you can make it work right?"


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ShaneP said:


> Maybe he had not been paid for the rough in and just needed to finish to get paid. Homeowners do that kind of thing all the time." Oh I didn't know I needed to tell you that I decided to go with two lavs before the drywall went up. Oops sorry! No big deal you can make it work right?"


Sure we can...
This change will only cost you a few cubic dollars...
Anything is possible in plumbing for a price... :thumbup:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> It's open the wall and do it right or, it's a job worthy of a CraigsList Hack...
> Come on guys.... Do we have any plumbers here anymore? Sheesh...


If thy are gonna pay you to cut the wall and redo piping then I'd do it,and they would be responsible for repairing wall,otherwise is leave it alone:yes:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

ShaneP said:


> Maybe he had not been paid for the rough in and just needed to finish to get paid. Homeowners do that kind of thing all the time." Oh I didn't know I needed to tell you that I decided to go with two lavs before the drywall went up. Oops sorry! No big deal you can make it work right?"












That requires a 'change order' which is a legal amendement to an existing contract. When the customer just wants to 'make a small change' which changes the scope of work, the contractor fills out a change order which lists the change and the price for that change, then gets the customer to sign it. This amends the original contract. The original contract price can either decrease, increase or remain the same.

I asked several times if the orig. poster asked the customer for more money since his scope of work increased. But no response was ever given.


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## ShaneP (Nov 20, 2011)

I am not sure of his exact situation either. I know personally sometimes you just get into a verbal agreement thinking no contract is needed. As usual it is best to keep it professional and have a written contract.


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

Looks like it will work just fine to me.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Carcharodon said:


> Some amount of high horses here, its a freakin lav drain not life or death, sometimes you got to think outside the box and make things work with the scenario you are given.


You can make it work, by doing it according to the code. Open up the wall. Code is law, our trade license is a contract between us and the government agreeing that we know, understand and will follow that law. Customers also hire us because we know, understand, and follow the code. It doesn't matter if it will work, which it will, it doesn't matter if it looks neat and is well done, which it is. If it's against code it's wrong and should be changed. 

That being said, up here in the great white north all you would have to do is change that tee and use a trap with a cleanout and you'd be home free. I'd still LIKE to open up the wall, but couldn't force the issue. As I understand, it's illegal where you are though.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

I of the school of thought where a common vent would have been much better and you wouldn't have to open the wall. A 2" wye with bushings to reduce to 1.5" and have 2 traps. It would look a lot more professional and be code...assuming the sinks are close enough together.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Steveking said:


> Does it drain does water come out of the faucets yes who freaken cares I can't believe all the know it alls on this sight


Well, most of us are licensed PLUMBERS. Not handy men...so yes, we know our profession. A car can drive on tires that are designed for a motorcycle, but it doesn't mean its going to work as intended. Your logic of "If it drains and produces water its fine" is naive and ignores why we do what we do. I could run water lines with garden hoses and say, "Hey, it gets the water to the fixture!" But that doesn't make it a good decision. We're all here to learn and sometimes a little harsh criticism is a good thing. You have to be able to take criticism of your work by those who have done it longer or even less time than you or else you'll never get better at your profession and learn different ways of doing it.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I of the school of thought where a common vent would have been much better and you wouldn't have to open the wall. A 2" wye with bushings to reduce to 1.5" and have 2 traps. It would look a lot more professional and be code...assuming the sinks are close enough together.


 
Only 1 1/2" coming through the wall. wye would probably stick out too far for the drawers too. Otherwise, I'd like that way as well.


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

mrjasontgreek said:


> You can make it work, by doing it according to the code. Open up the wall. Code is law, our trade license is a contract between us and the government agreeing that we know, understand and will follow that law. Customers also hire us because we know, understand, and follow the code. It doesn't matter if it will work, which it will, it doesn't matter if it looks neat and is well done, which it is. If it's against code it's wrong and should be changed.
> 
> That being said, up here in the great white north all you would have to do is change that tee and use a trap with a cleanout and you'd be home free. I'd still LIKE to open up the wall, but couldn't force the issue. As I understand, it's illegal where you are though.


I dont want to engage in the melodrama floating around here but some people can't see pass codes as if they are lide and death rules, some codes you can bend when stuck. 
There are a lot worse atrocities going on in the plumbing world than something like this.
All you would do is, tell the customer the situation you are in, the options of rectifying it, if they want the cheaper one then note your recommendations on invoice.


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## BC73RS (Jan 25, 2014)

Carcharodon said:


> I dont want to engage in the melodrama floating around here but some people can't see pass codes as if they are lide and death rules, some codes you can bend when stuck.
> There are a lot worse atrocities going on in the plumbing world than something like this.
> All you would do is, tell the customer the situation you are in, the options of rectifying it, if they want the cheaper one then note your recommendations on invoice.


I have read some interesting and informative posts since I joined PZ, that's why I read here. My pride of the trade and knowledge of code would reject what is at stake in this one. 
Why comment in favor of building wrong? For who's benefit? The customer?
Hold on a sec here. Never mind the inspector. We all know it's wrong.
Open the wall before it's too late.
My .02 cents.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Carcharodon said:


> I dont want to engage in the melodrama floating around here but some people can't see pass codes as if they are lide and death rules, some codes you can bend when stuck.
> There are a lot worse atrocities going on in the plumbing world than something like this.
> All you would do is, tell the customer the situation you are in, the options of rectifying it, if they want the cheaper one then note your recommendations on invoice.


Same deal as when a customer wants to add a third washroom when they only have a 3" main sewer, code here states minimum 4" downstream of the third water closet. We won't do it without replacing the main. Would it work? Of course it would! Who flushes three toilets at the same time, and even still it would probably be okay. Are there other plumbers who would chance it with the inspectors and try it without? Yeah there are. Let them hire somebody else. We don't need our name on it, even if it is a big expense that's hard to justify.

There's a difference between doing it right and doing something that works. It's that difference that makes us plumbers and them handymen.


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Now, if the customer were in a now emergency and had no money, but something would work temporarily, "TEMPORARILY", it might be ok to bend the rules a bit. But wand and need are two different things.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Well, most of us are licensed PLUMBERS. Not handy men...so yes, we know our profession. A car can drive on tires that are designed for a motorcycle, but it doesn't mean its going to work as intended. Your logic of "If it drains and produces water its fine" is naive and ignores why we do what we do. I could run water lines with garden hoses and say, "Hey, it gets the water to the fixture!" But that doesn't make it a good decision. We're all here to learn and sometimes a little harsh criticism is a good thing. You have to be able to take criticism of your work by those who have done it longer or even less time than you or else you'll never get better at your profession and learn different ways of doing it.



In my almost 30 years in this business, I've seen the plumber that thinks he knows it all or can't take a little criticism is the one that stays stuck in mediocrity (and salary).

David


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

So... The minimum standard of plumbing, AKA: The Plumbing Code is too good for this job so we need to tone down the quality and make this "Bag~O~Shyt" the new standard of quality..:laughing::blink::no:

Lets get something straight...
I don't have to make anything work if I don't want to...
I don't have to willfully break the code to satisfy a cheap customer or cheap gc...

My success doesn't depend on it...
In fact my success depends on me not doing it...

If I did that I'd no longer be a good plumber...
I'd become a mediocre hack or worse yet a hacker handyman...

That pressure tee will screw any drain cleaning effort...
That pressure tee will allow waste to shoot across the tee...
The shooting across will contribute to a buildup causing stench...
The long run length will contribute to a stench coming out of the drain...

They didn't make the plumbing code without reason...
Every line has a reason that was painfully learned...
And above all it is the minimum standard...

If you think you are smart enough to rewrite the plumbing code why don't you try it through proper channels and have your code proposal adopted in the next cycle...

Do that I'll call you a good plumber...
Anything less... Well.... Look...
Why don't you just learn to show a little respect for yourself and your trade and either learn how or get out...
That looks like a $8 - $10 and hour piece of work to me...
Some of us don't appreciate your efforts at cheapening the trade and we damn sure don't think much of the backing either...

Your work will easily become the standard of price, but it will never become the standard of quality....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Carcharodon said:


> ... There are a lot worse atrocities going on in the plumbing world than something like this. All you would do is, tell the customer the situation you are in, the options of rectifying it, if they want the cheaper one then note your recommendations on invoice.


So where is your line? The one you won't cross in violation of your expertise, knowledge, and what you know to be right.


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## redfisher43 (Mar 15, 2011)

So the attached pic would be OK? The line on the left side is coming from a washing machine. The drain coming through the floor is a shower drain. The customer wondered why they got suds in the shower when the washer was used.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

redfisher43 said:


> So the attached pic would be OK? The line on the left side is coming from a washing machine. The drain coming through the floor is a shower drain. The customer wondered why they got suds in the shower when the washer was used.


Yeah but I bet the homeowner saved a lot of money paying plumber wages. Plumbers always want to overcomplicate and use all those extra fittings


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## Carcharodon (May 5, 2013)

plbgbiz said:


> So where is your line? The one you won't cross in violation of your expertise, knowledge, and what you know to be right.


I don't know, when I find it I'll let you know 
But in seriousness, when safety becomes an issue, when you know what they want done will not work as it should if you did it the correct way ( all depending on what it is and what their expectations are) when the aesthetic s of the job become compromised by the standards I expect for the job. 
I can agree with the majority here to a certain extent but its way too dramatic.
Punishment doesn't fit the crime


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

redfisher43 said:


> So the attached pic would be OK? The line on the left side is coming from a washing machine. The drain coming through the floor is a shower drain. The customer wondered why they got suds in the shower when the washer was used.


Cleanout on the trap; looks a-ok to me!! :thumbup: :laughing:


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

redfisher43 said:


> So the attached pic would be OK? The line on the left side is coming from a washing machine. The drain coming through the floor is a shower drain. The customer wondered why they got suds in the shower when the washer was used.


I saved this pic for my code class for how NOT to run drains.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I saved this pic for my code class for how NOT to run drains.


 

at least he used purple primer on all the fittings

and he should have put another boulder under the 2 inch trap for better support of the pipes......:thumbup:


this one I posted a while back is about on the same lines too...some quality silicone workmanship with a 2 inch male adapter threaded into the side of the pipe...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*its good for about 150 years...*



Redwood said:


> So... The minimum standard of plumbing, AKA: The Plumbing Code is too good for this job so we need to tone down the quality and make this "Bag~O~Shyt" the new standard of quality..:laughing::blink::no:
> 
> Lets get something straight...
> I don't have to make anything work if I don't want to...
> ...


 


No offence meant here but personally redwood, I think you need to come down off the high horse you are rideing on ..... 
You cant justify totally tearing up a finished , painted wall because of your lofty plumbing principles.....

The customer obviously made a change after the rough in was completed that this guy had to shoot from the hip and he made a good recovery..... 

that fellow who posted the origianl pic actually did a very neat job with that double bowl vanity he was working with.... the only thing I would fault him on was maybe not putting a cross or a clean out in the system..... BUT IT WILL WORK and it looks good

sometimes you do what you got to do with what you have to work with.... 

I am not gonna turn over in my grave because I could not convince this guy or the home owner to tear open that wall and go to that expence just to do it differnetly

We both know that this will work just fine for about 150 years...

PLEASE ......give it a rest


:thumbsup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> No offence meant here but personally redwood, I think you need to come down off the high horse you are rideing on .....
> You cant justify totally tearing up a finished , painted wall because of your lofty plumbing principles.....
> 
> The customer obviously made a change after the rough in was completed that this guy had to shoot from the hip and he made a good recovery.....
> ...


Meh... I really don't care what kind of ghetto plumbing you do Mark...
Just keep it in the land of "Low Standards" and don't bring it here...

Just don't bother telling me how all your customers want cheap work, and the handi-hacks who offer the same quality of work that you do are driving down prices...


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## hawkeye77 (Feb 20, 2009)




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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Yep... Looks beautiful just like any other flipper house...:thumbup:

Then that drain stops up, and the hidden away hacked up mess rears its ugly head...:laughing:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Love how the original pic has a trap with union. Looks like it would be real easy to remove.😄

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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Yep... Looks beautiful just like any other flipper house...:thumbup: Then that drain stops up, and the hidden away hacked up mess rears its ugly head...:laughing:


 I just worked there!!!






This is what I found






My hack solution. 11pm kitchen sink overflow at apt complex I'm on call this weekend as normal guy had family stuff. You all know I am not a plumber and chopping this thing and slapping a hub onto is about as far into modifying drains as we get. Ask yourself if you would want me doing this to your drain?

Imagine it without the no hub installed. I didn't think about you guys until after I cut the pipe


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Are you willing to stand behind your work a decade from now is my question? 

What if you installed something like this on new construction or a remodel and ten years down the road I show up to unclog it and tell the customer (which I would for sure as a way to justify the extra time and the drastically marked up 1 1/2" no hub) that the plumber who installed this did it completely wrong. How are you going to answer that phone call? 

If you paid my 700$ bill to come out at 11pm and unclog it you might be able to keep a happy customer.


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

Good God you holier than thou fawkers act like cutting a piece of 1-1/2 pvc and unscrewing a trap union to clear a stoppage is going to send the whole trade straight to hell. I bet all the loud mouths carrying on about this have done way shadier **** than that.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Rando said:


> Good God you holier than thou fawkers act like cutting a piece of 1-1/2 pvc and unscrewing a trap union to clear a stoppage is going to send the whole trade straight to hell. I bet all the loud mouths carrying on about this have done way shadier **** than that.


 
That vanity looks pretty good to me 

you would have to be a dumb-ass to insist on tearing open that finished wall then chew up some 2x4s and a bunch of drywall just to install it up to your lofty plumbing standards.... 

the cost outweighs the benefits of your plumbing ideals.....and if you cant realize that then you are a plumbing legend in your own mind, 

you can walk off the job in a huff if you must 
and let them find someone else to finish the work, 

My guess is most liikely they would throw you offthe job you insisted in destroying the room when you wont use plain common sense..... especially when you dont even know what is behind the wall in the first place..





you are looking at a lot of "plumbing legends" on this site.... 

wind-bags might be a better term....:laughing:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

I prefer to called worse than that. It makes me smile as I'm righting out your fail tickets and receiving my re-inspection fee.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Freakin dowel check on my phone. Aghhhh

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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Rando said:


> Good God you holier than thou fawkers act like cutting a piece of 1-1/2 pvc and unscrewing a trap union to clear a stoppage is going to send the whole trade straight to hell. I bet all the loud mouths carrying on about this have done way shadier **** than that.





Master Mark said:


> That vanity looks pretty good to me
> 
> you would have to be a dumb-ass to insist on tearing open that finished wall then chew up some 2x4s and a bunch of drywall just to install it up to your lofty plumbing standards....
> 
> ...


Why thank you...
Excuse me now the windshield on my van is dirty I have to hit it with a hammer to clean it....:thumbup::laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumbdrum said:


> I prefer to called worse than that. It makes me smile as I'm righting out your fail tickets and receiving my re-inspection fee.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 
like I already stated... 
you really dont know what is in that wall ..... maybe a 3 inch stack coming down from the second floor bathroom...,,, maybe a cold air return.... a heat run or two..... and perhaps some other electrical suprises......

so go ahead and have at it boys ..knock yourselves out

show-em your a pro..... 
:laughing::laughing::thumbsup::thumbup:


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> like I already stated... you really dont know what is in that wall ..... maybe a 3 inch stack coming down from the second floor bathroom...,,, maybe a cold air return.... a heat run or two..... and perhaps some other electrical suprises...... so go ahead and have at it boys ..knock yourselves out show-em your a pro..... :laughing::laughing::thumbsup::thumbup:


Well I will restate what I've said/asked from the beginning .this instal from what I can see from this pick would not comply in my state for these reasons.
1- one single trap may be installed on multiple sinks up to 3 if the trap is centrally located (which it is) but not exceed 30" center to center( to which I've asked at the beginning of the thread with no response and looks to me exceeded)
2 - trap must have an accessible clean out. (Which it doesn't)
. That being said, the installing plumber who probably roughed in the sink would know if said obstruction was in wall. Is it really that big of a deal to open a wall, make proper correction put the Sheetrock back and slide vanity back in? You wouldn't even have to call in the plasterer , vanity would cover. Would that instal work? Sure it would, would I install like that? No. Would it pass inspection? With what I stated above, NO

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## allanbutts (Sep 9, 2014)

hawkeye77 said:


> The customer failed to inform me that they wanted 2 sinks until after painting


 
I think I could make this compliant without damaging the finished drywall, I've noticed the words law , and legal, thrown out several times on this board , but in the code book I studied for my masters and one of the first 
questions on my exam referred to never replacing the word compliant with the word legal. 

not to critic hawkeye77 . its obviously a very clean rigid job but what if from the VTR a horizontal laid dbl wye with c.o. street 1/8th bends on the outlet ports trap adaptors with tubular traps under each lavatory . it may have changed the shelf placement but saved the drywall ..


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

if i lived close i would ask to leave a drain cleaning card taped to pipe. 

that thing will plug. i make good coin redoing the drains when they look like that. customers are much less than plused when i explain why it is plugged and that i will NOT put that back. 

this can get even better(not really) when some genius dumps acid down one side and lye down the other side. or even both in one side. i've had some do that.

a lot of trailer homes here have the main drains plumbed like that. works great for my bank account. i feel sorry for the people that own it, BUT sorry no discount. 

i don't want to date anyone, i just want the money. 

ice cream raz


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## david thompson (Sep 18, 2014)

I suppose a cleanout would be a good idea, but it looks more streamlined without one....


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

david thompson said:


> I suppose a cleanout would be a good idea, but it looks more streamlined without one....


Hey David,
Please go and make an intro post here...

It's painless, tell us a little bit about yourself, company, work, and whereabouts you work...

You don't have to get real detailed but it makes your user experience here a lot nicer when we know you a bit...


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## budders (May 19, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Hey David, Please go and make an intro post here... It's painless, tell us a little bit about yourself, company, work, and whereabouts you work... You don't have to get real detailed but it makes your user experience here a lot nicer when we know you a bit...


 i was gonna reach out to u about this but i figured u would see it. Thanks.


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