# To leader or not



## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

I used to use a leader a lot for doing main lines but since my apprentice lost it a few months ago I haven't used it at all. Just had me wondering. What are most of you using? leaders or not.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I run a drum machine and on main lines I will usually run a 1 1/2' long leader ahead of the blade...

I'll also start with a full size blade and attempt to clean it in a single pass...

Get in... Get out... No messing about...
Most of the time it works with excellent results...

That failing I'll make adjustments as needed to clear and clean the line...


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm not sure what a leader is. I use a k1500 for main lines. I usually try and get a full sized tip through on the first pass.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

You all are leaving out a word when you say "leader" It is a "Trap Leader" used to negotiate and clean a trap. Thats it that all it was originally designed for you run the trap leader through a 4" P-trap up to the coupling and pull out. You really do not want to clean a whole sewer from a P-trap. 

I am not saying it can not be done, it is just if your cable is new and not broken in yet, you really do not want to run it through a trap. Also you will put lots of stress on your couplings and test the welds. I do have a machine with well broken in (limber) cable for rodding a main from a floor drain. This cable is so limber no trap leader is needed. I rather use a K1500 type machine and the 1¼" sectionals to rod from a floor drain.

Now when I get brand new cable I do use a trap leader. It helps make turns that the new stiff cable has trouble making. Once the cable is broken in, I stop using the trap leader.

As for rodding in one pass, I found it can be a waste of my time and the customers. I always start with a 2" cutter or equivalent, then up it to a 3" then a 4" (most clean outs are 4") and if the home owner wants I can run the expanding cutter through, but I can get 99% of the 6" lines spotless with a 4" cutter. Running the 2" 3" and 4" cutters I am usually done in 1 hour to an 1 1/2 hours. The other reason I like to make mutiple passes is I can ensure that all cut debris is pushed out of the sewer.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Ditto on the trap leader. I have one for my 1500 but it stays in the shop. Seemed like a cool idea when I bought it but I don't know that it has EVER actually been used. Haven't needed it. We don't have building traps here and on the larger floor drains my cut cable whips have always made the turn.

This is always on the cable on our first pass:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

We don't have house traps, so never needed one.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

What Ron said with a couple exceptions.

There are no house traps around here but I always run one as they come in handy for various other tight turns and I hate taking it on & off so it stays on.

Unless I know the line I usually start with a 3" half blade and go up, half blades have way more ripping power than a full blade to quickly get the line open. I usually make 3 runs or more. Callbacks are almost nonexistent (knocking on wood)


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> As for rodding in one pass, I found it can be a waste of my time and the customers. I always start with a 2" cutter or equivalent, then up it to a 3" then a 4" (most clean outs are 4") and if the home owner wants I can run the expanding cutter through, but I can get 99% of the 6" lines spotless with a 4" cutter. Running the 2" 3" and 4" cutters I am usually done in 1 hour to an 1 1/2 hours. The other reason I like to make mutiple passes is I can ensure that all cut debris is pushed out of the sewer.


I cable from cleanouts seldom through a trap with the exception being where there is a house trap without a cleanout on the outlet side...

Probably 80% of the lines I clean are done in a single pass with camera verified results of the cleaning showing a clean line without debris left in the line.

Callbacks under our company guarantee policy of 6 months residential and 1 month commercial are non-existant with a statistic of less than 1% on all drain cleaning I have done...

The leader I use is not a trap leader and it is used initially on all main line cleanings...

Hardly a waste of my time... IMHO
Definitely not a waste of the customers time as we are a flat rate company...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I have a leader, but less connections make me feel better.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Use sectional cables...no leader.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Aren't we supposed to vote for our new leader LMAo


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> You all are leaving out a word when you say "leader" It is a "Trap Leader" used to negotiate and clean a trap. Thats it that all it was originally designed for you run the trap leader through a 4" P-trap up to the coupling and pull out. You really do not want to clean a whole sewer from a P-trap.
> 
> I am not saying it can not be done, it is just if your cable is new and not broken in yet, you really do not want to run it through a trap. Also you will put lots of stress on your couplings and test the welds. I do have a machine with well broken in (limber) cable for rodding a main from a floor drain. This cable is so limber no trap leader is needed. I rather use a K1500 type machine and the 1¼" sectionals to rod from a floor drain.
> 
> ...


 






Ron, you are a drain cleaning guru.....:thumbup:......I'm still learning the finer points in drain cleaning.


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

Only when necessary for me as the leader can get bound in a ball of roots and slow your cutting progress.


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## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

Never... I put about a 30 degree kink in the cable about 6-8 inches back And you can also turn the blade different angles for different results


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## Santa Fe (Oct 28, 2012)

I've always used a leader when cleaning sewer lines until I got my Duracable dm55. The only reason I originally didn't use a leader is that I couldn't find a leader for the slip joint cable that I use. I've found that I feel I have much more control and feel for the cable without a leader. Here, I've never encountered a building trap. www.santaferooter.com


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Santa Fe said:


> I've always used a leader when cleaning sewer lines until I got my Duracable dm55. The only reason I originally didn't use a leader is that I couldn't find a leader for the slip joint cable that I use. I've found that I feel I have much more control and feel for the cable without a leader. Here, I've never encountered a building trap. www.santaferooter.com


 My gosh.. ur disposal job on the website is totaly HACKERY!!!


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> My gosh.. ur disposal job on the website is totaly HACKERY!!!


Yeah really, and no license numbers anywhere either

Sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Not just hackery here, it's illegal. A disposal must be individually trapped.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I dont think he is a plumber ... Just a drain cleaner


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

Leaders are prone to get wrapped up with roots before the cutter can get there. They like all tools have their uses, but if used improperly can give you a heartache and cost you precious time


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

But intros, on the other hand, are always a good idea.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

I use a K 1500 main line and a k380 75' for anything in the house. I use a 5/8 swivel retriever bit to get the through condensate and washer traps. 
I want a K50


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I dont think he is a plumber ... *Just a drain cleaner*




I'll take offense to that, Mr. Plumber.................:whistling2:


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

damnplumber said:


> Leaders are prone to get wrapped up with roots before the cutter can get there. They like all tools have their uses, but if used improperly can give you a heartache and cost you precious time




The leader I run is just behind the cutting blade not in front. It's purpose is to navigate tight turns,


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

AssTyme said:


> The leader I run is just behind the cutting blade not in front. It's purpose is to navigate tight turns,


I run a leader on my Mytana with the blades leading the way. Negotiates turns well and I feel is gentler on those alley 90 degree turn downs. 
I've never seen a leader cable in front of the blade.
Having trouble picturing a cable connected in front of the blades. I think something like that in front of my camera head would help it negotiate turns better.


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

*leader or not*

im new to the zone but having done many,many sewer cleanings on houses with house traps and not .using the k1500 i never used a leader even going thru a 4inch floor drain as a last resort to open the drain always tried to use m.c.o to get large cutter to clear line all the way to steet or septic tank,on other machine such as the mytana (junk) or k7500 tried to use the leader and ran into problems with the cable wanting to double back on me in the sewer line


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Spartan sells a leader two ways. One way is the traditional leader that AT mentioned. The other is more of a specialty cutter and believe they call it a tandem leader. The leader has a cutter on the very end and where the leader attaches to your cable another cutter head is there as well. Seems to be the cats a$$ with grease if you don't have a jetter or need to punch a hole prior to jetting.

Here it is.


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## Mr Plumber (Oct 20, 2011)

SewerRatz said:


> You all are leaving out a word when you say "leader" It is a "Trap Leader" used to negotiate and clean a trap. Thats it that all it was originally designed for you run the trap leader through a 4" P-trap up to the coupling and pull out. You really do not want to clean a whole sewer from a P-trap.
> 
> I am not saying it can not be done, it is just if your cable is new and not broken in yet, you really do not want to run it through a trap. Also you will put lots of stress on your couplings and test the welds. I do have a machine with well broken in (limber) cable for rodding a main from a floor drain. This cable is so limber no trap leader is needed. I rather use a K1500 type machine and the 1¼" sectionals to rod from a floor drain.
> 
> ...


What brand of cutters are you using.


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