# Technician



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

This term is starting to piss me off...

Either you are a plumber,, apprentice or helper

But for some strange reason everybody is starting to mention techs ..

What the hell is a tech???

Is that a term for unlicensed plumbing hack ?


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> This term is starting to piss me off...
> 
> Either you are a plumber or an apprentice!
> 
> ...


There OS, IFIFY.

Never seen or heard of either a helper or a tech round here.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

That because you are in the union and they call them gofores


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Pisses me off also. 

It's becoming very common. The root of the issue is with shops that want to deploy unlicensed workers IMO.

If they just call _all_ their employees "technicians", then they don't need to differentiate between plumbers and helpers.

Personally I consider it an insult and refuse to be called a technician. I correct office personnel (including the shop owner ) when they call me that.


----------



## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

I agree with you. I got so tired of being called a tech when I arrive for a service call.
This year for the first time when I ordered new uniform shirts I placed the words Master Plumber under my name. I have found customers react differently when they see a qualified plumber on the job.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Technician is the bullsheet term these unethical companies use when they dont have a licensed plumber to send out. The homeowner is none the wiser. Techs be damned I say :furious:


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> That because you are in the union and they call them gofores


Negative. Registered apprentice with the MTCU.


----------



## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=technician

I wouldn't be mad being called a technician. I know I am licensed. We all know there are companies that employ and have people running trucks that aren't licensed who we laugh at when we see in the supply house.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

U666A said:


> Negative. Registered apprentice with the MTCU.


So you are saying the first day they are on a job they are registered apprentice ???


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

That's a good question. Fox signed my contract, whereas most apprenti are indentured to the hall. I was signed the morning I started. 

Been a while, I'll have to ask one of them whippersnappers... :laughing:


----------



## bcp2012 (Oct 27, 2012)

In Manitoba were not allowed to have helpers anymore. If you have someone working for you

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## bcp2012 (Oct 27, 2012)

If you have someone working for you they have to be a registered apprentice

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

As long as they are not installing pipe ... Just getting material and general help does not have to registered apprentice ...

I usually run a guy for some time before I grant them an apprenticeship


----------



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

California is still a fast, loose state. I got my phcc j-man card, they have opened a j-man training course in Orange County.

I'm going for my contractor's license next year so there is no doubt who I am.


----------



## bcp2012 (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm just going by what the apprenticeship board told us when I was an apprentice. I'm a one man show so right now I don't have to worry about that

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> As long as they are not installing pipe ... Just getting material and general help does not have to registered apprentice ...
> 
> I usually run a guy for some time before I grant them an apprenticeship


I can get behind that, like a 90 day probation period?


----------



## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Has the journeyman requirement been removed in all areas. I believe it was removed from the code in the late 90's. It used to be that a journeyman was required on all job sites.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

We register newbs as Apprenti during their first week.


----------



## bcp2012 (Oct 27, 2012)

The trial period makes perfect sense to me. But I think the reason they want them to be signed up right away is because a lot of companies were just hiring helpers and never signing them up and guys that were working for awhile were not getting their hours or their proper rate of pay as an apprentice.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> We register newbs as Apprenti during their first week.


I had 5 interviews, they fully intended on signing the successful applicant immediately.

Can you imagine the people they interviewed to make ME the "successful applicant"? :whistling2:
:jester:


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> ...What the hell is a tech???
> 
> Is that a term for unlicensed plumbing hack ?


I first started hearing it in the late 80's. My dear mentor Frank Blau is a big advocate of the term. It is believed by some that the title of "technician" is some how more high brow or "technical" than being just a lowly plumber. It is one of the few instances where Mr. Blau and I have had a disagreement. 

My heartfelt belief is there is nothing to be cherished in our trade any more than bearing the title of Licensed Plumber.

Even if he worked for free, I wouldn't hire a technician to wash the excrement off my Apprentice's boots.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

I am for the probation period. I would hate to sign up an apprentice only to find he cant keep his hands out of his pockets :jester:


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Pipe Rat said:


> I am for the probation period. I would hate to sign up an apprentice only to find he cant keep his hands out of his pockets :jester:


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


----------



## jnaas2 (Dec 6, 2012)

I hate it when people call Me a jack of all trades or a handyman, For some reason I get offended by that term and tell them I hold four licenses Plumbing, Electrical and commercial and residential contractor not someone running around playing contractor with no licenses or insurance


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

jnaas2 said:


> I hate it when people call Me a jack of all trades or a handyman, For some reason I get offended by that term and tell them I hold four licenses Plumbing, Electrical and commercial and residential contractor not someone running around playing contractor with no licenses or insurance


You Hack...:laughing::laughing: You cant have more than one license unless you're a tech. :no::no:









Just messin' wit ya :jester: BTW you gotta intro???? LOL


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Pipe Tech said:


> You Hack...:laughing::laughing: You cant have more than one license unless you're a tech. :no::no:
> 
> Just messin' wit ya :jester:


:Jester:


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Pisses me off too. It's like how they have changed all the names of vocational centers to technical centers as if somehow vocation is a bad word. I like vocation. It has meaning. You go there to learn a vocation. Not to learn a technical. It's just a bunch of politically correct idiots trying to make something sound more grandiose than it is.


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> As long as they are not installing pipe ... Just getting material and general help does not have to registered apprentice ...
> 
> I usually run a guy for some time before I grant them an apprenticeship


 Did you try out jnoshs???


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Pisses me off too. It's like how they have changed all the names of vocational centers to technical centers as if somehow vocation is a bad word. I like vocation. It has meaning. You go there to learn a vocation. Not to learn a technical. It's just a bunch of politically correct idiots trying to make something sound more grandiose than it is.


 I get more pizzed off when we are called 'blue collar' workers by certain people.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

I dont think blue collar is offensive at all. I am comfortable in my skin. I manage to wear both collars and many hats


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Pipe Rat said:


> I dont think blue collar is offensive at all. I am comfortable in my skin. I manage to wear both collars and many hats


 That's fine, but with certain people, they look at blue collar as factory workers without using the brain like us plumbers.. so I raise the billing prices, just for those 'special' people.


----------



## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> This term is starting to piss me off...
> 
> Either you are a plumber,, apprentice or helper
> 
> ...


I know when I first started to hear it, it was from the office calling us technicians, maybe because tech sounds more professional than plumber. But really a technician is someone who is an expert in any given field of expertise, whether it's an auto mechanic, computer tech whatever. In my opinion though, if your different that's fine. 
Maybe it has to do with the younger generation.. But I am not an unlicensed hack.. I am a licensed master plumber. But I do also consider myself a technician, a lead technician, plumber whatever you wanna call it. It's semantics in my opinion. Just what ever floats your boat.. Old timer technician sir:jester:


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> This term is starting to piss me off...
> 
> Either you are a plumber,, apprentice or helper
> 
> ...


They use the term technicians to cover trade professionals. Frequently you will discover a crossing over in the trades within a company. When I write I cover all trades and to list each one individually would be insane hence the word technicians.

I am a licensed journeyman plumber who also held at one time a Ohio's master plumbers license and it does not bother me at all. Call me what you want as long as you use me.


----------



## Mpc_mhayes (Nov 27, 2012)

Its like me "Mikey's Plumbing" People ask. "are you Mickey?" I say no its Mikey. But you can call me whatever you want as long as you pay the bill.


----------



## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

And don't spell mickey on the check lol


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

But electricians are still electricians not electrical technicians. You are correct, it's all about putting lip stick on the pig. Nonsense really. Here's the thing though. A plumber is a PROFESSIONAL the plumbing profession is a listed profession, not a technical trade. HVAC guys are technicians. The nurse that pokes the needle in your arm is a technician. WE are freeeeekin PROFESSIONALS just like doctors and lawyers. Charge accordingly gentlemen :laughing:


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

It seems your larger companys like the word technician. They can hire anyone and put them in a truck and instantly you have a plumbing tech. The company I used to work for was guilty of this. I often show my jp cards to the customer so they know i worked hard for this card and im damn proud of it!!!!!


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Yea, my license's say master plumber, not master technician


----------



## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

The boss got on a kick of referring to me as a technician to customers for a while so I started referring to him as the secretary. Strangely I became a plumber again very rapidly.


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

bartnc37 said:


> The boss got on a kick of referring to me as a technician to customers for a while so I started referring to him as the secretary. Strangely I became a plumber again very rapidly.


I like that! :yes:

I'm definitely going to borrow that one to add it to my arsenal :yes:


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

For nhmaster 
:thumbup:


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

what other labels are yall hung up on?

I have never in over 45 years ever called a plumber or master plumber hi master plumber Joe or hi plumber Joe.It does not automatically give you respect you still must earn that respect. Remember I used to have a MLP and currently have a JPL.


I have enormous respect for a great number of plumbers in the zone however you did not gain that respect due to a master or a journeyman's card.I find it amazing that some are taking offense.


----------



## okcplum (Jul 16, 2011)

I have been called much worse. Lol.

I don't really care what I'm called so long as they pay the bill and they respect me for the service I offered.


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> what other labels are yall hung up on?
> 
> I have never in over 45 years ever called a plumber or master plumber hi master plumber Joe or hi plumber Joe.It does not automatically give you respect you still must earn that respect. Remember I used to have a MLP and currently have a JPL.
> 
> ...


Evidently you are guilty of calling your plumbers technicians .

In over 45 years I'm sure you haven't addressed a plumber as "Hi, Master Technician" or "Journeyman Technician" either :no:

The insult occurs primarily when office staff are talking about me or other plumbers to third parties and refer to us as "technicians" rather than plumbers. 

Technicians work at tasks from fast food preparation to widget manufacturing all across the nation. It has become an innocuous title that designates people as menial labor for the most part. 

Every Home Depot flunky that gets hired will sit and watch a few hours of videos for the department he or she is about to be assigned to and become an instant {fill in the blank} technician before the end of the day.

Earning a plumbing license takes many years of effort and training. It is a _profession_ to be proud of.

If you feel that some of your licensed plumbers haven't earned enough respect to be referred to as plumbers, that is your choice to belittle them and call them techs instead. 

But if you get in the habit of calling _all_ your plumbers techs, then you can rest assured you are insulting some of them constantly without intending to.


As far as other labels I don't like there are too many to list. I've got nothing against gays, women, or Irish people either, but don't refer to me as one and expect that I won't correct you real fast


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Evidently you are guilty of calling your plumbers technicians .
> 
> In over 45 years I'm sure you haven't addressed a plumber as "Hi, Master Technician" or "Journeyman Technician either" :no:
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same thing. Great statement. Thumbs up!!!!!!


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Thumbs up!!!!!!


You were going to call him an Irish lesbian too?!? :jester:


----------



## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

The bear said:


> Has the journeyman requirement been removed in all areas. I believe it was removed from the code in the late 90's. It used to be that a journeyman was required on all job sites.


 I`m not sure what you mean by areas but in Mass you must be a journeyman for atleast one year before you can take the masters exam. Only a master can apprentice someone and we are only allowed one apprentice per journeyman plumber. Thier is no such thing as a plumbers helper here in Mass even the truck drivers of large companies must be apprenticed within 30 days of hire.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Its the use of the word to the unknowing public. Its used as a tool to mask the fact that your men are probably not all "Plumbers" qualified and properly licensed. :furious:


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Where we work at in St Louis the office manager refers to everyone as technicians ! I myself can't really even classify myself as anything yet other than a apprentice in the trade . I have never heard anyone complain before about that but I could see where it looks better to be called a plumber if you have earned it !


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Where we work at in St Louis the office manager refers to everyone as technicians ! I myself can't really even classify myself as anything yet other than a apprentice in the trade . I have never heard anyone complain before about that but I could see where it looks better to be called a plumber if you have earned it !


You know your place young grasshopper .


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Where we work at in St Louis the office manager refers to everyone as technicians ! I myself can't really even classify myself as anything yet other than a apprentice in the trade . I have never heard anyone complain before about that but I could see where it looks better to be called a plumber if you have earned it !


Are you a registered apprentice ?????


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Yes sir been one now since October took me a year to get it but I'm registered in st Louis county and city will be very soon ! And plumbbum you are a technician ;P


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Yes sir been one now since October took me a year to get it but I'm registered in st Louis county and city will be very soon ! And plumbbum you are a technician ;P


...


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

I'm sorry Jp#1 you are a plumber 😊😜😃


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Yes sir been one now since October took me a year to get it but I'm registered in st Louis county and city will be very soon ! And plumbbum you are a technician ;P


This why some companies are using the term technician ...

You operated for one year and was not a registered apprentice...

More than likely they sent you out on your own and told the customer we will send a tech right over ...


----------



## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

We could be classified as Mario or luige. Lol


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

Everyone I work with are called technicians and they have never said anything! When calling a customer they say mrs whoever we are tech has finished up early can we send him your way or we are just checking to see if your appointment will still work our tech will be there in whatever! And I have never heard anyone complain ! Including a few I work with on the zone and they are licensed plumbers also


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Wikipedias definition of a Technician.

A*technician*is a worker in a field of*technologywho is proficient in the relevant skills and techniques, with a relatively practical understanding of the theoretical principles. Experienced technicians in a specific*tool*domaintypically have intermediate understanding of*theory*and expert proficiency in technique. As such, technicians are generally much better versed in technique compared to average*laymanand even general*professionals*in that field of technology. For example, although*audiotechnicians are not as*learned*in*acoustics*as*acoustical engineers, they are more proficient in operating sound equipment, and they will likely know more about acoustics than other studio personnel such as*performers.Technicians may be classified as either highly*skilled workers*or at times*semi-skilled workers, and may be part of a larger (production)*process. They may be found working in a variety of fields, and they usually have a job title with the designation 'technician' following the particular category of work. Thus a 'stage technician' is a worker who provides technical support for putting on a*play, while a 'medical technician' is an employee who provides technical support in the*medical*industry or to the medical profession. An*engineering technician*in the UK is a highly skilled, highly educated occupation requiring 5-8 years post high school training in a formal apprenticeship and college of further education.


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

I remember my first time using the Internet !


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

I think it shouldn't matter if the customer asks for credentials show them !


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> I think it shouldn't matter if the customer asks for credentials show them !


Well what would you have showed them before October ???

Your tech certificate ....


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

technician[ tek-nish-uh n ]
noun
1. a person who is trained or skilled in the technicalities of a subject.
This is what the dictionary says


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

At the time all I was doing was digging sewers and replacing water lines and learning with the boss and are jps and out here In missouri you don't have to have a license to do drains which is what I have been doing !


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> At the time all I was doing was digging sewers and replacing water lines and learning with the boss and are jps and out here In missouri you don't have to have a license to do drains which is what I have been doing !


But you were playing with water lines


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> technician[ tek-nish-uh n ]
> noun
> 1. a person who is trained or skilled in the technicalities of a subject.
> This is what the dictionary says


Now look up tradesman


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> technician[ tek-nish-uh n ]
> noun
> 1. a person who is trained or skilled in the technicalities of a subject.
> This is what the dictionary says


I remember when I had my first beer...


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Plumbing newbie said:


> Yes sir been one now since October took me a year to get it but I'm registered in st Louis county and city will be very soon ! And plumbbum you are a technician ;P





Plumbing newbie said:


> I'm sorry Jp#1 you are a plumber &#55357;&#56842;&#55357;&#56860;&#55357;&#56835;





Plumbing newbie said:


> Everyone I work with are called technicians and they have never said anything! When calling a customer they say mrs whoever we are tech has finished up early can we send him your way or we are just checking to see if your appointment will still work our tech will be there in whatever! And I have never heard anyone complain ! Including a few I work with on the zone and they are licensed plumbers also





Plumbing newbie said:


> I remember my first time using the Internet !





Plumbing newbie said:


> I think it shouldn't matter if the customer asks for credentials show them !



I rest my case :yes:


----------



## Plumbing newbie (Jan 9, 2012)

When I was messing with waterlines I prepared everything jps and the boss would hook them up now I do with them watching ! And I don't remember my first beer !


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumbing newbie said:


> And I don't remember my first beer !


Exactly my point...


----------



## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I do see where you guys are coming from on this. Your bringing up points I have not considered.


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I do see where you guys are coming from on this. Your bringing up points I have not considered.


About Ps3 or the Call Of Duty Franchise? :laughing:


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I always thought the term technician was to avoid liability. 

Customer: "The plumber you sent to my house flooded it!"

Company: "Well, we want to help. What happened?"

Customer: "That stupid plumber broke a valve or something, and I am going to sue the pants off of your company for sending that plumber, and what's more, he isn't even licensed!"

Company: "We never said we were sending a plumber to your home.".......:whistling2:


----------



## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

U666A said:


> About Ps3 or the Call Of Duty Franchise? :laughing:


Neither..:laughing:


----------



## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> I always thought the term technician was to avoid liability.
> 
> Customer: "The plumber you sent to my house flooded it!"
> 
> ...



:laughing:


----------



## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

The word technician reminds me of one of those jiffy lube hacks that do oil changes on cars :laughing:

Sent from my iPhone 10.5


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> The word technician reminds me of one of those jiffy lube hacks that do oil changes on cars :laughing:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 10.5


Or the guy that changes the pre filters on my water treatment system... :jester:

Sorry Pissy, couldn't help myself! J/k :laughing:


----------



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Mississippiplum said:


> The word technician reminds me of one of those jiffy lube hacks that do oil changes on cars :laughing:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 10.5


Read a magazine for ten minutes....or crawl up under my driveway junk??

I'm payin' the hacks....


----------



## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Slap me silly and call me Susan!

Acually my plumbing license does not say "journeyman" or "master plumber."

I would prefer if you all started calling me "Plumbing and Piping Unlimted Contractor."


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> Slap me silly and call me Susan!
> 
> Acually my plumbing license does not say "journeyman" or "master plumber."
> 
> I would prefer if you all started calling me "Plumbing and Piping Unlimted Contractor."


Well, which is it?
PaPUC, or Susan?!?
:laughing:


----------



## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

U666A said:


> Well, which is it?
> PaPUC, or Susan?!?
> :laughing:


PaPUC week days..

Susan on weekends......But that would be a whole new thread! :laughing:


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> Slap me silly and call me Susan!
> 
> Acually my plumbing license does not say "journeyman" or "master plumber."
> 
> I would prefer if you all started calling me "Plumbing and Piping Unlimted Contractor."


Mine says master plumber...


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Evidently you are guilty of calling your plumbers technicians .
> 
> In over 45 years I'm sure you haven't addressed a plumber as "Hi, Master Technician" or "Journeyman Technician" either :no:
> 
> ...


John I am far from guilty. I call myself a technician, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the term. You’re playing loosely with my words. I said a license does not automatically give you respect I did not say I did not respect people that have a license. You still must earn that respect. Please do not try to label me as belittling my plumbers you are way off base. Here is the real issue some want to put high praise on themselves and have a difficult time when people do not see eye to eye. This is highly evident with the way things are worded. Just because I do not believe like you, you use terminology like belittle, disrespectful, flunky which is a little far reaching. Are you seriously trying to insinuate that you have said hello Mr. Master Plumber John? BS and I will call you on that without knowing you. I call people by their name.

Here is my issue with a license any person can sit for a 4 day seminar and be taught what is on the test and pass the test for a master’s license or journeyman’s license anywhere. Stop allowing this and the license will hold more weight. We want to complain about the handymen that are working illegally. They are not the issue. The issue is licensed professionals working for peanuts disrespecting and devaluing the profession. To pretend for one minute that the word technician verses the term plumber is an issue is ridiculous.

Plumbers with less than 5 years’ experience can sit for a master’s test. I held a master’s license in a different state and the questions that have been asked of me by different master licensed plumbers /owners has amazed me. 1 had me look at a high rise print and asked me what a symbol was. He had worked on this high rise for 15 years and never knew what the symbol for a cleanout was. Nor did he ever have the initiative to take a look in any of the pantries to look for a cleanout. I had another ask me to draw out new construction plans as he had no clue how to lay out a home from a print. Nope a license does not automatically give you respect it is what you do with the knowledge that earns respect.

Do not get me wrong my belief is you must have a license to work on plumbing. I also believe the same with HVAC, electrical and all other trades. Stop being so sensitive you’re a big burly man and somehow this has attacked your manhood. It has nothing to do with manhood. I am extremely proud of the profession that has allowed me to feed my family and put them through college. I have spent over 45 years in this trade so please do not think for one second you have me beat concerning how proud I am of this profession. I take offense at how arrogant the wording is for a difference in opinion on a couple of words that have the same meaning.


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

I responded to what you wrote, brother. 

If you didn't mean what you said, that's fine... I occasionally post with poor word choice as well.




You wrote:



Richard Hilliard said:


> what other labels are yall hung up on?


My response: 



johnlewismcleod said:


> As far as other labels I don't like there are too many to list. I've got nothing against gays, women, or Irish people either, but don't refer to me as one and expect that I won't correct you real fast




You wrote:



Richard Hilliard said:


> I have never in over 45 years ever called a plumber or master plumber hi master plumber Joe or hi plumber Joe.


This makes no sense. No one address's another plumber one on one by a title beyond Mr....it is in the third party that plumbers are frequently described as "technicians" rather than plumbers and I find it insulting.

My response:



johnlewismcleod said:


> In over 45 years I'm sure you haven't addressed a plumber as "Hi, Master Technician" or "Journeyman Technician" either :no:
> 
> The insult occurs primarily when office staff are talking about me or other plumbers to third parties and refer to us as "technicians" rather than plumbers.





You wrote:



Richard Hilliard said:


> It does not automatically give you respect you still must earn that respect. Remember I used to have a MLP and currently have a JPL.
> 
> 
> I have enormous respect for a great number of plumbers in the zone however you did not gain that respect due to a master or a journeyman's card.I find it amazing that some are taking offense.


My response:



johnlewismcleod said:


> Technicians work at tasks from fast food preparation to widget manufacturing all across the nation. It has become an innocuous title that designates people as menial labor for the most part.
> 
> Every Home Depot flunky that gets hired will sit and watch a few hours of videos for the department he or she is about to be assigned to and become an instant {fill in the blank} technician before the end of the day.
> 
> ...







You claimed in both your posts that having a plumbers license does not entitle a man to respect and the implication given the context of this thread is that this justifies calling them technicians rather than plumbers.

You say someone can study to the test for a few days and pass it and therefore it doesn't entitle them to respect. 

That might theoretically be true, but you have forgotten that it also requires _four years of apprenticeship to earn the right to stand for the test._ {In Texas it is now 4 years for JP, 8 years for MP}



No one would disagree that there are highly competent plumbers out there and many that are less so, but if they earned their license they earned the right to be called plumbers IMO.

I might call some dumb-arses, but I would _never_ call them "technicians".


I'm a bit surprised you wrote what you did, Richard. 

Although we periodically disagree on some things, I have learned over time that we are actually closely aligned in philosophy for the most part and I look forward to your posts and read them carefully because there is often quite a bit of wisdom in them.


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

This is getting good. Im going for some popcorn,anyone else?


----------



## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> This is getting good. Im going for some popcorn,anyone else?


I'm on a diet..... Gin and tonic.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> John I am far from guilty. I call myself a technician, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the term. You&#146;re playing loosely with my words. I said a license does not automatically give you respect I did not say I did not respect people that have a license. You still must earn that respect. Please do not try to label me as belittling my plumbers you are way off base. Here is the real issue some want to put high praise on themselves and have a difficult time when people do not see eye to eye. This is highly evident with the way things are worded. Just because I do not believe like you, you use terminology like belittle, disrespectful, flunky which is a little far reaching. Are you seriously trying to insinuate that you have said hello Mr. Master Plumber John? BS and I will call you on that without knowing you. I call people by their name.
> 
> Here is my issue with a license any person can sit for a 4 day seminar and be taught what is on the test and pass the test for a master&#146;s license or journeyman&#146;s license anywhere. Stop allowing this and the license will hold more weight. We want to complain about the handymen that are working illegally. They are not the issue. The issue is licensed professionals working for peanuts disrespecting and devaluing the profession. To pretend for one minute that the word technician verses the term plumber is an issue is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


I think your missing the boat on the tech issue ..
The problem is most companies are using the term because in fact the guys they are sending out are not licensed plumbers ..


----------



## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> I think your missing the boat on the tech issue ..
> The problem is most companies are using the term because in fact the guys they are sending out are not licensed plumbers ..


Or they are sending out apprentices and charging for plumbers.


----------



## James420 (Nov 14, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> John I am far from guilty. I call myself a technician, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the term. You’re playing loosely with my words. I said a license does not automatically give you respect I did not say I did not respect people that have a license. You still must earn that respect. Please do not try to label me as belittling my plumbers you are way off base. Here is the real issue some want to put high praise on themselves and have a difficult time when people do not see eye to eye. This is highly evident with the way things are worded. Just because I do not believe like you, you use terminology like belittle, disrespectful, flunky which is a little far reaching. Are you seriously trying to insinuate that you have said hello Mr. Master Plumber John? BS and I will call you on that without knowing you. I call people by their name.
> 
> Here is my issue with a license any person can sit for a 4 day seminar and be taught what is on the test and pass the test for a master’s license or journeyman’s license anywhere. Stop allowing this and the license will hold more weight. We want to complain about the handymen that are working illegally. They are not the issue. The issue is licensed professionals working for peanuts disrespecting and devaluing the profession. To pretend for one minute that the word technician verses the term plumber is an issue is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


We need 8,000 hours and 4 years apprenticeship, just to be a journeyman plumber. After that you need 4,000 hours as a journeyman to take your test for a masters license. You also need proof from the licensed plumber you worked under for those two years as a journeyman, he or she has to sign for it so you can take your application to the state plumbing board.


----------



## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> This is getting good. Im going for some popcorn,anyone else?


 Im ready !


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> John I am far from guilty. I call myself a technician, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the term. You&#146;re playing loosely with my words. I said a license does not automatically give you respect I did not say I did not respect people that have a license. You still must earn that respect. Please do not try to label me as belittling my plumbers you are way off base. Here is the real issue some want to put high praise on themselves and have a difficult time when people do not see eye to eye. This is highly evident with the way things are worded. Just because I do not believe like you, you use terminology like belittle, disrespectful, flunky which is a little far reaching. Are you seriously trying to insinuate that you have said hello Mr. Master Plumber John? BS and I will call you on that without knowing you. I call people by their name.
> 
> Here is my issue with a license any person can sit for a 4 day seminar and be taught what is on the test and pass the test for a master&#146;s license or journeyman&#146;s license anywhere. Stop allowing this and the license will hold more weight. We want to complain about the handymen that are working illegally. They are not the issue. The issue is licensed professionals working for peanuts disrespecting and devaluing the profession. To pretend for one minute that the word technician verses the term plumber is an issue is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Your masters must be real easy in Florida. Ours is a 4 story hospital, with every fixture in the code book in it. You have to size it, waste and water according to their individual requirements and code minimums. You also have to locate all required clEan outs, and every catch basin on the site plan. Invert elevation had to be calculated on the site plan as does storm size with water retention system for both a 50 year and 100 year storm.

That's half the test about 4 hours for it. The second half is random questions and septic designs. If anyone can learn that in 4 days, they wouldn't be plumbing they would be doing crap like Matt Damon in good will hunting.

So anyone who can pass that test deserves to be respected. Then again you can draw design and sign prints and engineered drawings here. So a masters is an equivalent to a plumbing engineering degree.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh, and it takes 8 years to even get to sit for a masters here. 5 year apprenticeship, plus 3 years as a journeyman before you can even take the masters.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I think your missing the boat on the tech issue ..
> The problem is most companies are using the term because in fact the guys they are sending out are not licensed plumbers ..


 
My guys are licensed and we do not send out unlicensed plumbers or technicians.


Do not forget there are a lot of states that only require a master license for the qualifier no one else needs a license. It does not make those guys any less a plumber than those that hold a license.

There are still some states that do not require a license to operate.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

John I write what I mean. I do not need a word to determine my quality or self worth. This why I take no offense at being called a technician.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> My guys are licensed and we do not send out unlicensed plumbers or technicians.
> 
> Do not forget there are a lot of states that only require a master license for the qualifier no one else needs a license. It does not make those guys any less a plumber than those that hold a license.
> 
> There are still some states that do not require a license to operate.


Come on Richard you actually believe that ...


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Do not forget there are a lot of states that only require a master license for the qualifier no one else needs a license. It does not make those guys any less a plumber than those that hold a license.
> 
> There are still some states that do not require a license to operate.


If that we're true, why have a masters program at all. Here in wi you only need one master in the business but the whole point is that one master is supposed to be the one held accountable for everyone else. If they need one license, one man to take the responsibility, how can that man be equal to the guys under him? 

If you can't pull your own permit, you are less of a plumber than someone who can. Your skills may be the same as far as the actual work, your code knowledge might even be the same but the difference is one of those guys proved it.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> If that we're true, why have a masters program at all. Here in wi you only need one master in the business but the whole point is that one master is supposed to be the one held accountable for everyone else. If they need one license, one man to take the responsibility, how can that man be equal to the guys under him?
> 
> If you can't pull your own permit, you are less of a plumber than someone who can. Your skills may be the same as far as the actual work, your code knowledge might even be the same but the difference is one of those guys proved it.


 

I can get a POA to pull a permit inside a plumbing company.

Please do not get on this garbage kick out of who has more power that is BullS#it.

Owner that does not respect his employees they leave
Employee that does not respect his owner leaves.
Employee that does not hold his own weight is fired.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Come on Richard you actually believe that ...


 
I would not have printed it if I did not believe it os


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Hey there are scabs in the plumbing profession. There are also scabs that hold a license. No denying this. There are also scabs that have a master license that are unethical.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I would not have printed it if I did not believe it os


So more or less you are saying there is no need for apprenticeship or trade school that there is unqualified or unlicensed guys that are equivalent to some one that done there apprenticeship and trade school


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

...


----------



## James420 (Nov 14, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> Your masters must be real easy in Florida. Ours is a 4 story hospital, with every fixture in the code book in it. You have to size it, waste and water according to their individual requirements and code minimums. You also have to locate all required clEan outs, and every catch basin on the site plan. Invert elevation had to be calculated on the site plan as does storm size with water retention system for both a 50 year and 100 year storm.
> 
> That's half the test about 4 hours for it. The second half is random questions and septic designs. If anyone can learn that in 4 days, they wouldn't be plumbing they would be doing crap like Matt Damon in good will hunting.
> 
> So anyone who can pass that test deserves to be respected. Then again you can draw design and sign prints and engineered drawings here. So a masters is an equivalent to a plumbing engineering degree.


Our is an apartment complex 4 story, but the same, roof drains and combined sanitary and storm sewers. Ugh, I'm not looking forward to taking it in 2013.

My journeymens test I got two wrong, one gutter size' we had 4, and one vent size that should of been 1 1/4".


----------



## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

Fact of the matter is... it is not very comforting to your client when you say "I'll send an apprentice right out"... "Tech" sounds much better. When I was an apprentice they used the word "Plumbing Mechanic". IMO what sounds best is "I'll send a Plumber right out" and the title "Plumber" refers to someone holding a competency card.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Why is your company sending apprentices out? Apprentices must be directly supervised


----------



## Mpc_mhayes (Nov 27, 2012)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Why is your company sending apprentices out? Apprentices must be directly supervised


I know in NC its General Supervision. That means 1 licensed Plumber and 500 helpers. Just have to call them as if everything is ok. And the Service Guys don’t need any License. They ride around with "licensed and insured" on their trucks. I asked one. Do you have a plumbing license? He said No. I said why is that on your truck then. He said “I have a drivers license" lol


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Techs are people who technically know nothing!:laughing:


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> So more or less you are saying there is no need for apprenticeship or trade school that there is unqualified or unlicensed guys that are equivalent to some one that done there apprenticeship and trade school


 
Ok old school where have I said anything about this? I am speaking on terminology ONLY . How you came up with your idea here is beyond me. Typical to try and blow something way out of context.

Today I talked to my 5 journeyman plumbers and another that is MLP and none of them are offended by the term technician. In our shop all 6 of us are in agreement we are not offended to be called a service technician


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> My guys are licensed and we do not send out unlicensed plumbers or technicians.
> 
> Do not forget there are a lot of states that only require a master license for the qualifier no one else needs a license. It does not make those guys any less a plumber than those that hold a license.
> 
> There are still some states that do not require a license to operate.


this is what you are saying


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

RW 

How many different drawings does the state of Texas have on different Master's tests to get a license? These schools pay people to sit for the Masters and come back to teach what is on the test. No denying this as it is fact.

Most states or cities will have 4-6 different prints and these schools know what the prints are and they teach how to pass what is on the test. It does not mean Texas test is harder than Florida's test. It is what it is. This is exactly the same thing as sales that you were dead set against and now practice.


The tests are difficult and they take a long time. No doubt about this however if you take a 4 day course to pass what is on the test how does this prove that you have more knowledge or as you put it higher up on the food chain.


Now kudos to the plumbers that take the test on their own. This is where the license means something and hold iron. I applaud these plumbers as they are true master plumbers.


Let us not forget about all the plumbers that were grandfathered in without having to take a test.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> this is what you are saying


 It does not state what you stated .Show me where I said
"So more or less you are saying there is no need for apprenticeship or trade school that there is unqualified or unlicensed guys that are equivalent to some one that done there apprenticeship and trade school"


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> It does not state what you stated .Show me where I said
> "So more or less you are saying there is no need for apprenticeship or trade school that there is unqualified or unlicensed guys that are equivalent to some one that done there apprenticeship and trade school"


You might mean some thing else but when I read it that is the way it sounds ...

If you meant something else you should be a lot clearer


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> this is what you are saying


 
What I stated is 
1. 
some states only require a qualifier to hold the license and the employees do not need a license.

2.

Some states do not require a license to run a plumbing business

Nowhere did I say this is a good practice or what I believe is a correct practice. Hope this is now crystal clear for you.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> What I stated is
> 1.
> some states only require a qualifier to hold the license and the employees do not need a license.
> 
> ...


Missed one part 

It does not make those guys any less a plumber than those that hold a license.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Missed one part
> 
> It does not make those guys any less a plumber than those that hold a license.


 a plumber plumbing 30 years in a state that does not require a license would not have the experience and knowledge and this person would be less of a plumber than a license JP or MLP


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

The state of Ohio did not have a state license until 1993. Many of the plumbers there were unlicensed plumbers that crossed state lines to work in the plumbing profession. Many of the states did not have or require a license. Major cities that had their own permitting and inspection department could require a license for that city when that city council passed a resolution to make it a law.

I personally knew hundreds of plumbers that did not have a license that were brilliant plumbers.

State licenses are relatively new perhaps the last 30- 40 years or so.


----------



## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I personally knew hundreds of plumbers that did not have a license that were brilliant plumbers.


 I know a brilliant witch doctor. Would you like his number for when you get a disease?


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

AWWGH said:


> I know a brilliant witch doctor. Would you like his number for when you get a disease?


 
So the plumbers before you that did not have to hold or they were not required to have were witch doctors?


Guys licensing was not always in place. I am not saying it is not necessary. If I thought they were not needed or necessary I would not hold one myself. I would not have got a MLP when I ran my business.


This started out about terminology between master plumber, journeyman plumber and technician and somehow has been brought to a different point and has been taken to the ridiculous.


----------



## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> So the plumbers before you that did not have to hold or they were not required to have were witch doctors?
> 
> Guys licensing was not always in place. I am not saying it is not necessary. If I thought they were not needed or necessary I would not hold one myself. I would not have got a MLP when I ran my business.
> 
> This started out about terminology between master plumber, journeyman plumber and technician and somehow has been brought to a different point and has been taken to the ridiculous.


 My point is in the year 2012 we don't just have a bunch of cowboys running around unlicensed and unregulated doing work in the dead of night.

I am proud to call myself a master plumber. It's something that I earned. Something that is required by law for me to do the work I do.

I'm not a technician. I do not change oil. I do not do brakes. I am NOT a cable guy. I do not test urine samples in a lab. 

I am a plumber.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> RW
> 
> How many different drawings does the state of Texas have on different Master's tests to get a license? These schools pay people to sit for the Masters and come back to teach what is on the test. No denying this as it is fact.
> 
> ...


I believe there are seven versions. I couldn't attest to the Texas version as I'm from WI. W have our own state code so a cookie cutter prep guide wouldn't help much. I wouldn't be able to recreate a drawing of a hospital from memory. There are prompters that watch to make sure you don't take pictures of it or anything. There are 400 or so questions on the test, if you could memorize those, you wouldn't be cheat your way through with out a cheat sheet or seven as there are seven versions. There are companies who use practice tests which are actual old test versions. Still, the only way to pass is to learn the material. There are five years of schooling to learn that material. 

I took journeyman prep classes as a requisite to completing my apprenticeship. They had old copies of the exam to review. It would mean nothing without the knowledge. Our masters has a 65% first time fail rate. If there was some easy way to condense it into 4 days studying, that would be much lower. Do me a favor, grab a set of prints and explain them to someone else. Ask them the next day what all the lines mean and I bet you wouldn't get the right answer. Not even including sizing to code minimum. I have to concentrate during the test, I can assure you it's difficult and cheating isn't very common. Why would you want to try to cheat to become a plumber? I could see the bar exam or something. 

Like it or not, a master plumber is higher up on the chain. MY name is on the permits I fill out. A non licensed guy can hire someone like me to do it, but at the end of the day, he can't do it himself. You can refer to yourself or your staff any way you'd like just please refer to me as a master plumber. I can tell you I didn't take any fancy prep class. It's a title I've earned.


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> So the plumbers before you that did not have to hold or they were not required to have were witch doctors?
> 
> Guys licensing was not always in place. I am not saying it is not necessary. If I thought they were not needed or necessary I would not hold one myself. I would not have got a MLP when I ran my business.
> 
> This started out about terminology between master plumber, journeyman plumber and technician and somehow has been brought to a different point and has been taken to the ridiculous.


Some were... Without basic level testing, there was no way to verify. Now, anyone that meets that standard deserves to be called by the title they've earned. In my post, I said that you might be a decent plumber without the license but the license proves it. Judging by much of the work I see in older homes, 50s or older, plumbers of days gone by weren't as good. They cut out structural members, weren't as concerned with pitch or proper venting or functional use products. Some of this is the materials they used being harder to work with, some of it codes lacking or being non existent. 

With modern codes, there are many more standards to adhere to today than there was in days gone by. To follow them it's impossible to do without training. I can guaranty my code knowledge is superior to ANY non licensed plumber, unless the guy took all the classes without bothering to get the license which would be stupid. You can only learn in two ways. By schooling or by doing it. I have an extremely varied level of experience in different aspects of the trade, and I haven't done a tenth of the stuff in the book. The only way you have a chance is if you work large commercial projects, except for missing out on all the POWTS, well and sewer main work.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> I believe there are seven versions. I couldn't attest to the Texas version as I'm from WI. W have our own state code so a cookie cutter prep guide wouldn't help much. I wouldn't be able to recreate a drawing of a hospital from memory. There are prompters that watch to make sure you don't take pictures of it or anything. There are 400 or so questions on the test, if you could memorize those, you wouldn't be cheat your way through with out a cheat sheet or seven as there are seven versions. There are companies who use practice tests which are actual old test versions. Still, the only way to pass is to learn the material. There are five years of schooling to learn that material.
> 
> I took journeyman prep classes as a requisite to completing my apprenticeship. They had old copies of the exam to review. It would mean nothing without the knowledge. Our masters has a 65% first time fail rate. If there was some easy way to condense it into 4 days studying, that would be much lower. Do me a favor, grab a set of prints and explain them to someone else. Ask them the next day what all the lines mean and I bet you wouldn't get the right answer. Not even including sizing to code minimum. I have to concentrate during the test, I can assure you it's difficult and cheating isn't very common. Why would you want to try to cheat to become a plumber? I could see the bar exam or something.
> 
> Like it or not, a master plumber is higher up on the chain. MY name is on the permits I fill out. A non licensed guy can hire someone like me to do it, but at the end of the day, he can't do it himself. You can refer to yourself or your staff any way you'd like just please refer to me as a master plumber. I can tell you I didn't take any fancy prep class. It's a title I've earned.


 
Do me a favor do the same thing with a plumber committed to taking and passing the test and ask how much they remember. You will discover they remember a whole lot more than random people you ask.

Get off the kick of a higher on the food chain it has nothing to do with it. We are talking terminology concerning technician and plumber.

You can go right on thinking that you are more important and higher on the food chain. It does nothing to or for my life. I'll keep on referring to you as RW.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I have never said that a MLP is not necessary and in my world it is a requirement. Hell I had one myself until I finally said I would never move back to Ohio. I live in a state that does not require a journeyman to have a license. When I took over as manager I made it a policy that our guys must acquire a journeyman’s license or they start year 1 apprenticeship. I give each person 12 months to gain a journeyman’s license. Some of you have this wild idea that I am against having a MLP this is not true. I am saying there are areas that do not require a license. If I am right upstate New York (Oneonta for one) and in Penn in the rural areas a MKLP is not required, I’ve visited a couple of these areas in the past 12 months and they have some really good plumbers.

Please understand my content and context of what I have stated. Just because someone does not have a license does not necessarily mean they are hacks or are criminals. Now if they are working illegally in areas that call for a license than I am in 100% agreement.

However I digress as this is a thread about terminology and the difference being called a technician or plumber. Let’s make a deal and start calling them a service plumbing technician. We do not want people to think we are sending over a butt crack plumber do we? :laughing:


----------



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Do me a favor do the same thing with a plumber committed to taking and passing the test and ask how much they remember. You will discover they remember a whole lot more than random people you ask.
> 
> You can go right on thinking that you are more important and higher on the food chain. It does nothing to or for my life. I'll keep on referring to you as RW.


As long as it isn't technician, we're good.


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I have never said that a MLP is not necessary and in my world it is a requirement. Hell I had one myself until I finally said I would never move back to Ohio. I live in a state that does not require a journeyman to have a license. When I took over as manager I made it a policy that our guys must acquire a journeyman&#146;s license or they start year 1 apprenticeship. I give each person 12 months to gain a journeyman&#146;s license. Some of you have this wild idea that I am against having a MLP this is not true. I am saying there are areas that do not require a license. If I am right upstate New York (Oneonta for one) and in Penn in the rural areas a MKLP is not required, I&#146;ve visited a couple of these areas in the past 12 months and they have some really good plumbers.
> 
> Please understand my content and context of what I have stated. Just because someone does not have a license does not necessarily mean they are hacks or are criminals. Now if they are working illegally in areas that call for a license than I am in 100% agreement.
> 
> However I digress as this is a thread about terminology and the difference being called a technician or plumber. Let&#146;s make a deal and start calling them a service plumbing technician. We do not want people to think we are sending over a butt crack plumber do we? :laughing:



Agree. We have a county that does not require a individual license, you can work under a master plumber with no prior plumbing work. This means we could hire grandma and throw her in a truck tomorrow and no rules are broken. This being said my boss is still selective in who he hires and would prefer someone to be licensed. In this county all you can get is a master license. Missouri is screwed up on our licensing.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> Agree. We have a county that does not require a individual license, you can work under a master plumber with no prior plumbing work. This means we could hire grandma and throw her in a truck tomorrow and no rules are broken. This being said my boss is still selective in who he hires and would prefer someone to be licensed. In this county all you can get is a master license. Missouri is screwed up on our licensing.


Thats because Missouri does not have a state license requirement. Individual counties and/or Munies set their own regs. You will find that the major metro areas require each plumber to be licensed and the rules get less stringent the further away you get.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Pipe Rat said:


> Thats because Missouri does not have a state license requirement. Individual counties and/or Munies set their own regs. You will find that the major metro areas require each plumber to be licensed and the rules get less stringent the further away you get.


 
Exactly my point and does that make them less of a plumber or lower in the class structure of plumbers?


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Exactly my point and does that make them less of a plumber or lower in the class structure of plumbers?


Yes it does ...

All they would be is faucet changers


----------



## BigDave (Mar 24, 2012)

I love to read posts like this one here in the Zone. We have a ton very
bright, and well educated professionals in here that have a wide spectrum
of experience and opinions. As for myself, I am proud of the fact that I have
picked this profession as a way to earn my living. I provide a VERY valuable
service to the community. The person (or company) that signs my check
provides me with a label of their choosing to identify me to the public. I'm
OK with whatever marketing ploy they come up with. I do however, wear my
ticket on the outside of my uniform pocket, proudly bearing the seal of the
State of Texas as a licensed Journeyman Plumber. I assure every customer
that I'm fully qualified to take care of their entire plumbing system.
I was a "journeyman" on commercial job sites, and now consider myself
a Professional Plumbing Service Technician now that residential service
is my thing. High Tech is where we are and it's not going away.
I know who I am, period. Labels are something other people MAY concern
them selves with, but I'll never get caught up in that.
This thread was an interesting read, it's stuff like this that keeps me coming
back to this place. I learned, laughed and been entertained as well.
Enjoy the Holidays gentleman (oh no another label) and keep it up


----------



## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I like commercials on tv for various trade schools..."in just 3 weeks you can become a _______ technician"


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Yes it does ...
> 
> All they would be is faucet changers



Wait one minute here. How could I be less of a plumber if a county I lived and worked in does not require a individual license. My boss has to carry a master and he could have all of us under him. THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME ANY LESS OF A PLUMBER THAN THE NEXT GUY THAT HOLDS A CARD. We still have code to go by. I know plumbers that dont have a card that could plumb circles around plumbers that have a card. I hold a jp card in st louis city, county but another major county we work in does not reguire me to have a individual license. I guess im just a hack in that county.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> Wait one minute here. How could I be less of a plumber if a county I lived and worked in does not require a individual license. My boss has to carry a master and he could have all of us under him. THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME ANY LESS OF A PLUMBER THAN THE NEXT GUY THAT HOLDS A CARD. We still have code to go by. I know plumbers that dont have a card that could plumb circles around plumbers that have a card. I hold a jp card in st louis city, county but another major county we work in does not reguire me to have a individual license. I guess im just a hack in that county.


 
Back that truck up your not as high on the food chain.:laughing:


----------



## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Back that truck up your not as high on the food chain.:laughing:


Explain please


----------



## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

This thread has drifted so much that I think we all lost sight of the OP's question:

"Why are so many shops now calling plumbers technicians rather than plumbers?"



Several of us theorized that it's got to do with hack mills deploying unlicensed and/or unqualified personnel.

Another theorized that it was because the term "technician" sounds more professional than "plumber".

Then someone said that it had something to do with respect and that plumbers don't deserve to choose what they are called.

Several said they don't care what they are called as long as they get paid on payday.

And somewhere along the way we got sidetracked into parsing the various licensing requirements of different states.



It's all good fun and interesting, but I've got to wonder what the license requirements of NY and Missouri have to do with whether the plumbers in the various states are called plumbers or technicians?

If they meet the governing body's requirements and do plumbing work, then they are plumbers.

Why call them technicians instead?


I've only seen one post here that offers a *reason* for this trend of re-labeling us, and that is that they believe "technician" sounds more professional than "plumber"....does anyone believe this?


----------



## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I've only seen one post here that offers a *reason* for this trend of re-labeling us, and that is that they believe "technician" sounds more professional than "plumber"....does anyone believe this?


One of my first journeymen was always telling the boss to use the word technician because in his opinion it sounded more skilled than plumber.

Since starting my own company and doing way more service work than I did before, I would say that I have found people want to know that I am a ticketed plumber. Anyone can say they are a tech if they attended a weekend training course, but to be a plumber you need to have done your apprenticeship and passed the IP.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Plumbbum0203 said:


> Explain please


 being sarcastic


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> This thread has drifted so much that I think we all lost sight of the OP's question:
> 
> "Why are so many shops now calling plumbers technicians rather than plumbers?"
> 
> ...


 
As time passes words have taken a different meaning and definition. I believe it is a progression to group all classes and terminology into 1 group. helper,apprentice,jouneyman,master into one lump group = technician


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

This is what gets my goat ...

The use of the term Tech ... To hide the fact that companies are sending out unlicensed guy ... To do service work ... 

Then trying to generalize real plumbers under that term ... 

I think it is disgusting ... That the term is being used to hide the truth from unknowing customers..


----------



## AAP-Anthony (Oct 14, 2012)

Technician, Service Technician, ServiceTech and so on - became widely used for several reasons, but mainly to counter the plumber stereotype (dirty, butt crack showing, smelly - fat guy). Technician just sounds "cleaner" when you're selling service. 

Another reason it started being used more was to simplify when labeling triple threats (plumbing, heating, A/C) aka service technician. 

Just as the HVAC industry has adopted the term "comfort advisors" nowadays to better market their services. You have to admit "comfort advisor" sounds a whole lot better then HVAC repairman or A/C Technician. 

It's all about marketing to the customer not the guy walking around with a pipe wrench belt buckle, proclaiming he is a true plumber lol


----------



## Narin (May 2, 2012)

never heard of helper or tech. it's always, tradesman or apprentice


----------

