# Jobs I don't deal with anymore



## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Tankless - My install this week got cancelled, didn't even talk price. Once again, it's in the boundaries of lots of phone/talk time and no sale. 

I'm done with it.


In home barber/salons - Guy calls today, makes the work sound so simplistic, to the point that "all you have to do is move the water line around the corner." ??? 

He also went on to state that the toilet won't be installed. 

He wants me to pull a permit on this, even though I hear "I could of done this myself but so-n-so said I have to have it permitted." 

Then I ask him who referred me to him. 

I never saw someone squirm so much, trying to come up with an answer. 

At that point, I dumped the call, gave him my buddy's number and this guy went cold on me...lost his playful voice of anticipation he hooked me like a fish and reeled me in. 

Fat chance scrotum toes. 

Drain Cleaning - Any call that I get, that a customer has to call me back after I quoted a price? I'm dumping/not answering when they do. Not giving opportunity to another to let them shop me. Consider it a loss. 


The above are 'Take Action' stances that provide protection from wasteful time spent with others that are there for the taking.

I've actually slowed down a bit this week, but that does not deter from the focus that you do not let people walk on you. It's when you do, the game becomes one of regret, completely. 

I've been doing other related work activities that don't pay money on the spot, but easily work as advertising designs that put that name out there like salt and pepper shakers on a lunch table. :thumbsup:


Take that to the f**king hole home sliced!


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## Jeff (Oct 12, 2010)

Love the attitude brother! thats experience talking. For me it's trailers, alway's end's
being a project? with people not willing to pay to have thing's done right.


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## Jeff (Oct 12, 2010)

This is a good post, I have a few myself. The one that makes my blood pressure
go up is, when the builder ask's me, can I wait till the final to get paid. Will not!
do that again, it means he has no money.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Dunbar you made me think? I have the same trouble with tankless and beauty salons. That is funny, spend a bunch of time working up a quote and never hear back. It never dawned on me.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Tankless - My install this week got cancelled, didn't even talk price. Once again, it's in the boundaries of lots of phone/talk time and no sale.
> 
> I'm done with it.
> 
> ...


 


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:^^^^^


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm done with trailers also. I'm also done with with returning calls asking I just want to know how much? No Hello this Joe Any Guy Smith and I have a problem can you give me a ball park because funds are low. I'm fine with those calls. Just asking how much is rude and drives me nuts They get no return call.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Once in a while I get in a frustrating rut with people in general. This week has been that week. As of late I have just plain been appalled with how fing rude people in general have been. This is a super good subject we could all offer input to and grow from. The bottom line is this... times are tough all over and people are bitter. No one can deny the rise of "I can do it myself clients" and just plain nastiness from people these days. I do the exact thing you do Dunbar. My polite arguement to people is simple and I say this a ton these days. _I have a right to feel good about a job also._ 

Much to my own detriment at times. This past six months I have refused to fold and have found that I am actually better off for it. No doubt you work a little less but income that does flow is profitable. Prior to downsizing I took jobs for less to keep the guys working and it bit harder than it was worth. In fact anytime I have dropped my britches to get work it has come back to haunt me. Not worth it.

I have been blessed with some good old mentors and one in particuler taught me this Never whore your own trade.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*No more gas leak estimates*

No more gas leaks for me .....they call tonight at 5
and have the gas company out there looking for the 
reason that they have been sick today........

they want me to come out and check the crawl space for 
troubles.. bad smells ...

I say ok, no problem it will be a min of $175 for me to 
go crawling around in the celler for you.. to see what is 
smelling up your house so bad, then we can go from that point......

Then I get ....*I thought your estimates were for free.*

I tell them that I just gave them a FREE ESTIMATE:thumbup:

I tell them I dont come out and go investigateing in a 
nasty crawl space for nothing.....

Then I told them to get the gas man to look down 
there for them. tip him 25 bucks to take a look .....:thumbup::thumbup:



free gas leak estimates....... no thanks "scrotum breath"


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## smudge (Jan 19, 2010)

I love when I call someone back and answer all their questions then they turn around and say " now which company are you" f-off jerk hole


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I figure this is a good thread for this....Customer calls after lunch today hoping to get a toilet change out...

I tell her I can be out around 4 today, or we can schedule another time...

She really wants it done today, and 4 would be fine.....I say okay, do you have a preference blah, blah, blah...She says, "No, I've already picked everything up. It's sitting in my bathroom".

Well I've heard a lot about Glacier Bay, and how crappy they are, but I never imagined just how crappy. On first glance, it didn't look too bad, but it all went south from there....No real problems. Just everything about it was low quality stuff....

Anyway, here's my first and LAST glacier bay install....


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## Jeff (Oct 12, 2010)

A lot of people think there doing you a favor by giving you work? They use the bad economy as a tool, to get a better price. Hold your ground, but pick your battles carefully.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Condos , Salons , Churches & several ,,,,, " Ethnicities " 

You asked for a price ,,, I gave it to you ,,,, This is NOT a negotiation . I DON'T CARE what people do in other parts of the world ,, Good Bye


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Cal said:


> Condos , Salons , Churches & several ,,,,, " Ethnicities "
> 
> You asked for a price ,,, I gave it to you ,,,, This is NOT a negotiation . I DON'T CARE what people do in other parts of the world ,, Good Bye


 Hotels, 7-11s


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Your a whore even at that price. I charge 300 for leak detections/locations. :laughing: 



Master Mark said:


> No more gas leaks for me .....they call tonight at 5
> and have the gas company out there looking for the
> reason that they have been sick today........
> 
> ...


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## dankman (Nov 19, 2009)

Any job that takes more than 72 hours to collect on. If you can't pay me don't call me.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

It sounds like a dream to be able to turn work away. Good for you Dunbar, you have achieved a success that many long for. But, might I ask, why turn it away, is there no way to make money?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm particular because the experience and gray hairs on my head have brought me to a point and time where I make decisions based on what doesn't work... and the above statements are just me throwing the towel in. 


Ratios that the trouble is outweighing the effort, and I'll be instantly cold on the phone from this point forward. Meaning, "We don't do X" and move the conversation away from the jibber jabber.


I can look back years ago when I first went into business and see where "taking it all on" didn't make money. If anything, I lost it. Now, I pick through the good ones and do them, then toss the rest that are not income producers. 

And that is exactly what this business is all about. 

I did a faucet replacement tonight that turned into 2 faucet rebuilds and one toilet rebuild for next week. It's open scheduled and I'll use it as a filler call...meaning I told them I have to order parts for their toilet to fix it, and the first time I have a call in that area, schedule it and group calls in the same range.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Airgap said:


> I figure this is a good thread for this....Customer calls after lunch today hoping to get a toilet change out...
> 
> I tell her I can be out around 4 today, or we can schedule another time...
> 
> ...


 
I got binged on a Crane toilet to go sunday. I tighten everything I install, always. Rarely do I have callbacks.

Flex supply line was leaking on the toilet. WTF? Wait, WTFH???!

When I installed their toilet against my will, there was a filter cup at the base of the shank of the fill valve, and that was odd. 

Sure enough, that cup mates to the very bottom of the shank and I'm sure cone washer was sealing against it, but it was bleeding between that and the shank and pushing up the threads of the shank. 

Because when I switched to a second toilet supply, damn thing was still leaking. 

I replaced with a 400A, kept that 2nd supply line on there and no callbacks. 


I blame that fill valve entirely and I will not consider that a callback on my workmanship, ever. That toilet has a horrible bowl wash, it'll clog soon enough. :laughing:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Hears that. I went out to a reconnect while back bout 30 miles from here.
Costumer had a cheap sink faucet for me to install which I did. 3 or 4 months later called me back cuz it was dripping. I returned and replaced the cups and springs. But when I offered the bill, she was upset I was charging her. 
I said mam this was not my faucet, plus your well is pumping sand. Here's the bill.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*a whore???*



Protech said:


> Your a whore even at that price. I charge 300 for leak detections/locations. :laughing:


 
Whore???

they were not going to have me look at it
even if I would have done it for 50 bucks..
It had to be completely free..
and that was not in my play book:no::no:.. 


175 minimum to just look around seemed 
high enough to get them out of my hair quickly..... and it worked., 


300 would have been rather rude .


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Had a Mr. John Q Public (person I don't know) call me on my cell phone yesterday. He said he needed a licensed plumber to write letter to city of Detroit, to say there is no leak in his bldg, to get city to reimburse him for over charging him on water bills. I told him I don't work in Detroit. He told me I don't have to go there, all I have to do is write the letter to city, & put my license number at the bottom.:blink:
I can't tell you what I told him cuz Ron always says to keep it clean.:yes:


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## john_mccormack (Feb 27, 2010)

*Work in businesses*

I love how these business owners (and home owners, for that matter) don't understand the work-for-payment process. A business owner, let's say of a hair salon, sets their prices to make a profit. If a customer were to walk into their salon and try to haggle them down they'd say "I'm sorry ma'am, but that is what we charge, it's based on the market".
I learned from a master plumber the art of giving an estimate, agreeing on the price and then asking "how would you like to pay for that today?" His reasoning when the homeowner asked why they couldn't be billed later was "does the grocery store bill you later when you roll two carts of food to your car?" This was mainly for the smaller jobs in the several hundred dollar range. The $30,000.00 whole-house repipe and boiler replacement for a beach house "converted" to year round living was put on a payment plan.


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## Ishmael (Dec 9, 2009)

john_mccormack said:


> I love how these business owners (and home owners, for that matter) don't understand the work-for-payment process. A business owner, let's say of a hair salon, sets their prices to make a profit. If a customer were to walk into their salon and try to haggle them down they'd say "I'm sorry ma'am, but that is what we charge, it's based on the market".
> I learned from a master plumber the art of giving an estimate, agreeing on the price and then asking "how would you like to pay for that today?" His reasoning when the homeowner asked why they couldn't be billed later was "does the grocery store bill you later when you roll two carts of food to your car?" This was mainly for the smaller jobs in the several hundred dollar range. The $30,000.00 whole-house repipe and boiler replacement for a beach house "converted" to year round living was put on a payment plan.


An off-topic, but similar gripe:

*HO:* _I already got all my fixtures at Home Depot. Can you just come and install them?_

Do these same people also walk into their favorite restaurant and hand the chef a steak they bought cheaper down at the butcher shop?


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Indie said:


> It sounds like a dream to be able to turn work away. Good for you Dunbar, you have achieved a success that many long for. But, might I ask, why turn it away, is there no way to make money?


I felt this was for a long time Indie... Even as slow as some of these little spells get. I find I am better off and a lot less stressed when I hold my ground on price. In my case it is only price that causes me to turn a job away. 

Doesn't mean I am right by the way, it is just the route I am choosing to travel.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Proud Plumber said:


> I felt this was for a long time Indie... Even as slow as some of these little spells get. I find I am better off and a lot less stressed when I hold my ground on price. In my case it is only price that causes me to turn a job away.
> 
> Doesn't mean I am right by the way, it is just the route I am choosing to travel.



I agree, I looked at a tub replacement today. When asked about payments on the project, I said "Sure, pay me half down, and other half upon competition. I am not in a position to finance a project." She agreed, and is supposed to call, after her husband gets home, and they decide exactly how much they want to pay.

As slow as my start up is, I see not reason to make the situation worse, by making bad business decisions. Takes less effort to not pay my bills, and sit here, than work for a few days for free, and then still not pay bills.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Indie said:


> I agree, I looked at a tub replacement today. When asked about payments on the project, I said "Sure, pay me half down, and other half upon competition. I am not in a position to finance a project." She agreed, and is supposed to call, after her husband gets home, and they decide exactly how much they want to pay.
> 
> As slow as my start up is, I see not reason to make the situation worse, by making bad business decisions. Takes less effort to not pay my bills, and sit here, than work for a few days for free, and then still not pay bills.


Sounds like you've seen the light Indie....:thumbup:


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Not haggling anymore either . I'm turning work away everyday . Got MORE then PLENTY for me . I've got too many people want want me to drop my price because ,,, BLAH , Blah , Blah . HELLS BELLS ,,, I'm already cheaper then most of the guys in town !


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

The longer I do this work the more clear it becomes to me. People don't know a ****ing thing about plumbing. Consequently they don't understand what it should cost. Today I had a customer watch as I replaced the shut off valves under his lav sink. Getting the rotten nipples out of the wall was a *****. I explained each step to him and why I was doing it. I showed him the difference between the cheapo plastic stem valves he wanted me to use and the W.B. ball valve that I provided. When I gave him the price up front I could tell he was iffy about it. By the end of the call he saw the value in what I provided. I'm sure I'll be back for more work. Obviously every customer is not this receptive and many have no idea what your doing in the crawl space or under the sink. What pisses me off is the idea that because I do dirty work I must be desperate. If I'm desperate I'll work for what I'm given, not what I'm worth. Trying to stay away from customers who behave this way is part of my business plan. Most of my new customers start with an email and it's a perfect tool to screen out the *******s. Even a five minute conversation with one of those pricks is enough to ruin my day. Too many good customers out there to waste time with dead ends.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

No good deed goes unpunished. Over the years we have taken on work for less than we were worth because times were slow or we needed the cash flow.

When you lower your price and take the job, we noticed a few things seem to happen:


A good job comes in and you turn it away because you are on an unprofitable job.
Call backs - not legit. call backs, but the nuisance calls where you have to explain what you did had nothing to do with their new problem.
Customer writes the check and is shaking their head, the whole time saying, "I think you got me on this one. Seems like a lot of money."
THE WORST - Everything that could go wrong on the job did and in the end you suffered a lot of aggravation for nothing.

Never underestimate the blow to your ego and confidence when you take a job for less than you know you should. It makes it harder to hold your ground the next time. 

In the beginning we took anything and everything. Our success rate was 100% . . . our prices were too low. Everyone loved us, but we felt used. We have balanced the scales so that the customer will appreciate the value we have delivered and we appreciate the compensation for delivering that value.

When times are slow, we are human and tempted to give in on pricing. Rarely do we give in and reduce the price. We try to do something extra at a discount so that the customer thinks that they got a deal.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> No good deed goes unpunished. Over the years we have taken on work for less than we were worth because times were slow or we needed the cash flow.
> 
> When you lower your price and take the job, we noticed a few things seem to happen:
> 
> ...


PC, You are so on target with this...
It happens every time! The cheap customer is always wanting more for less...
Just you walking through the front door puts you as responsible for every bit of plumbing in the entire house....
You rebuild a kitchen sink faucet and now the bathtub is leaking...:laughing:

Now put yourself in the shoes of the commission flat rate plumber and imagine the horrors....:no:

A callback for them can very easily result in a loss of commission...
Either you go back or, someone else goes. If someone else goes they will be paid for their time out of your commission whether the callback is justified or not....:whistling2:

I'd rather sit in my truck and watch the river float by or, take a nap than work for nothing.

People are easy to read. There is a big difference between someone that expects and is determined to have you work for nothing, and the customer that has a plumbing problem or, problems and is trying to resolve them with limited resources.

The first one was a waste of time to even respond to, and the second one if they have enough funds to come close are worth giving a break to. Chances are they will be one of your best customers both in not generating callbacks and generating referrals. Knowing the difference is key to plumbing for profit.

The second type of customer usually agrees to do the needed work without a bunch of haggling but you know it is a hardship. Usually they end up getting a surprise where the bill at the end is less than agreed on. This leaves the option of the original price being charged if anything and everything possible to go wrong on the job did go wrong.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Redwood said:


> ...There is a big difference between someone that expects and is determined to have you work for nothing, and the customer that has a plumbing problem or, problems and is trying to resolve them with limited resources....


Volumes spoken in a simple statement. :thumbsup:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

A homeowner had someone (un-licensed plumber) replace a section of his sewer line. The man's home had backed-up and caused damage. After he paid the un-licensed man around $ 3000.00, HO decided he wanted to file an insurance claim. His mortgage company (Wells Fargo) said to HO that the only way they will pay is if a licensed pluming contractor signs off on their paperwork. That is when I get a call form HO. He stands to get around $ 2700.00 if I just sign some paperwork. Essentially the mortgage/insurance company will pay, but they don't want this sewer repair to ever come back to them because once they pay the claim, they'll never pay again. Fair enough. 

I tell HO, sure I'll sign forms, after I inspect your sewer with fiber optics. My fee is $ 500.00. Never heard back from the gentleman.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Incoming customers that call me on a sunday and don't leave a message.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

True story my story. When I got laid off from a small plumbing company 5 years ago and no jobs were available I opened a sewer cleaning company
we did have bill out net 30 days if people we short on cash
but then customers paid when they felt like it. "Sometimes months"
During that start up year I had my electricity shut off my cable shut off
Peanut butter and jelly for dinner and late mortgage payments because customers were all way's late paying :furious: They don't care about your business or your bills
I ended the net 30 four years ago on residential even when times are slow now I'm not waiting months to get paid. When they call I explain it's COD.
I have people haggle over the phone but I won't budge. DIY and handymen have hurt the service industry in this area. With drains I have an advantage over them because they can't afford the equipment. You do what you have to survive and feed your family and you just can't listen to peoples sob stories I know it's bad to think this way but the moment you give in you may become a sob story yourself. I truly used to care but times and people have changed.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

all mobile homes and all but one church are cod. it ain't my church either, i'm a heathen. breid.................:rockon:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

I learned early on not to prejudge a person by mobile home or living conditions etc. (When I did service all work was COD anyway) I remember many times being worried as the owner kept adding things to fix or conditions got worse and added cost to a job, the people I worried most about were generally the ones that whipped out the greenbacks many times with a tip and were geniunely happy you took care of their problems. Its the rich snooty folks you'll have more problems with. :yes:


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## chuckscott (Oct 20, 2010)

I have had a ton of people tell me that they can do it themselves. I started asking them why they called me. One guy had the guts to tell me that he wanted to make sure he was doing it right. I told him no and walked out.

Free estimate, yes. Free advice, no.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

chuckscott said:


> I have had a ton of people tell me that they can do it themselves. I started asking them why they called me. One guy had the guts to tell me that he wanted to make sure he was doing it right. I told him no and walked out.
> 
> Free estimate, yes. Free advice, no.


 
When you tell someone how to repair something without being paid, that's called 'unpaid consulting.' I refuse to do that anymore.

See if a lawyer will come to your house and give legal advice for free. The only exception would be a personal injury attorney who smells a big pay-off down the road. He might come out to see if you've got a case while you're in the hospital recovering from that fall at a grocery store over boxes left in the middle aisle. 

I no longer give free estimates. I charge to come out to a residential home and give the HO an estimate. If they want work done then and there, then I waive a trip charge.


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## sigshooter71 (Dec 8, 2010)

I leave a skull and crossbone next the ahole customers on a seperate list and I wont work for them again. Its not worth the money. There are plenty of good customers out there. You have to be picky sometimes.


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