# wardflex



## JenkPlbg (Nov 27, 2011)

They are cracking down on the whole bonding issue with wardflex.

Before where if we were adding a gas stove for example, we could just tee in to the black iron, and run some wardflex to the stove. Obviously there is a little more to it than that. But my point is now we are being told we need to pay an electrician to bond it as well.


If you are connecting to a previous installed gas line, whether it be wardflex of black iron, shouldn't that allready be properly grounded?


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## aero1 (Feb 13, 2009)

not always, best to bond it, but make sure you tie back into the main house ground or the panel, you do not what to change the potential of the system.[ ie adding another ground rod] we've had several of the systems compromised due to lighting strikes[ungrounded older installs] best check with ahj or manufacture recommendations. this issue has lawsuit all over it and i believe a settlement by the manufactures has already occurred.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Grounding and bonding are 2 different things.

And if the appliance has a power cord, such as a range, furnace or power vent water heater, it is bonded, and no further bonding is necessary. 

If it doesn't have electric, such as gas logs, or a BBQ, it must be bonded.

Tell your Inspector to read the code book.


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

Buy Counter Strike or Flash Shield no bonding required.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Grounding and bonding are 2 different things.
> 
> And if the appliance has a power cord, such as a range, furnace or power vent water heater, it is bonded, and no further bonding is necessary.
> 
> ...


Spot On

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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm not a fan of gas pex.

Just put in steel and be done with it. The obscene cost of gas pex and fittings make it not worth the trouble to me.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> I'm not a fan of gas pex.
> 
> Just put in steel and be done with it. The obscene cost of gas pex and fittings make it not worth the trouble to me.


I did two houses in gastite 2 pound system. 3/4" from meter to manifold. And 5 drops in 1/2". Cost over 900. In material. Bought black iron for the next house I'm doing now just over 400$. I about dropped a brick in my pants. That's we're my profit went in a little yellow pipe

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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

<<<<< not a fan of csst


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Tim`s Plumbing said:


> Buy Counter Strike or Flash Shield no bonding required.


:no:


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Code doesn't say counter strike is fine.. Only the manufacturer. Still I'm not a believer.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Actually Counterstrike requires the same bonding requirements as black steel. No more, no less. I just had a dispute with a Head Plumbing inspector over this issue. I had to prove my side, and he agreed with me after he researched it more. 

Doesn't matter if the appliance has a cord or not, they all have to be boned if local codes require it. What happens to the stove when it is hooked up to the gas system, and get unplugged for what whatever reason and Lightening strikes a chimney flue, arcs over the the gas piping. How is the Range bonded now?

Personally I like CSST piping. I would put in my own home. I only use Counterstrike.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Well I summited my weekend long bids good riddance. Lol now I'm off like a Hurd of turtles to run Black iron in this 20 degree weather

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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Will said:


> *Actually Counterstrike requires the same bonding requirements as black steel. No more, no less.* I just had a dispute with a Head Plumbing inspector over this issue. I had to prove my side, and he agreed with me after he researched it more.
> 
> Doesn't matter if the appliance has a cord or not, they all have to be boned if local codes require it. What happens to the stove when it is hooked up to the gas system, and get unplugged for what whatever reason and Lightening strikes a chimney flue, arcs over the the gas piping. How is the Range bonded now?
> 
> Personally I like CSST piping. I would put in my own home. I only use Counterstrike.




Per manufacturer. Not per code.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I don't have the 2012 version of the IFGC code(I only have the 2009) but Flashsheid is not mentioned in the IFGC code book. Gastite says to bond Flashsheild to what the NEC NFPA 70 article 250.04 in the same manor as the minimum requirements of black steel.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

2009 IFGC

Chapter 3 - General Regulations

Section 310 (IFGS)
ELECTRICAL BONDING
310.1 Pipe and tubing other than CSST.
Each above-ground portion of a gas piping system other than corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) that is likely to become energized shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground-fault current path. Gas piping other than CSST shall by considered to be bonded where it is connected to appliances that are connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the circuit supplying that appliance.

310.1.1 CSST.
Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.


SO....
I do not see how Counterstrike does not fall into the jurisdiction of 310.1.1. It may well be fancy CSST, but it is still CSST.
Also, even though an appliance can be unplugged so as to remove the bonding protection, it still meets code to consider the electrical connection appropriate bonding.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Except Flashsheild is to be bonded in the same way as ridgid piping, not like standard CSST. Only way Flashsheild has to be installed in the same way as standard CSST is if local codes require it.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> Except Flashsheild is to be bonded in the same way as ridgid piping, not like standard CSST. Only way Flashsheild has to be installed in the same way as standard CSST is if local codes require it.


Is it CSST pipe? If so, how does 310.1.1 not apply?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Is it CSST pipe? If so, how does 310.1.1 not apply?


Do you install your Uponor to the basic info in the IPC or to the installation maunel Uponor supplies with there tools?

Flashsheild is very different than regular gastite.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> Do you install your Uponor to the basic info in the IPC or to the installation maunel Uponor supplies with there tools?
> 
> Flashsheild is very different than regular gastite.


In general, I would likely go with the stricter of the two. For instance, if Uponor says the pipe should be supported every 5 feet but the code would allow it to be supported every 10 feet, I would follow Uponor's recommendation.

The same would be the case for Flashshield. It may not be "regular" CSST but it is still CSST and as such, is not to be trusted in my opinion. Even if the manufacturer suggests it does not need to be bonded, I would still do so according to the code. It will not hurt the installation but it may protect me from a liability standpoint down the road.

Do they have an ASTM/ASME certification that eliminates the need for bonding?


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

The future gas codes may change to accommodate counter strike and the like... But for the time being the code is the code like it or not. Some inspectors will see your point and pass it but don't be surprised when some don't.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

I got on the csst bandwagon foe 6 months. Pros about it are #1 it is easy 2 it is fast 3 it saves time. Cons 1 it is not durable ( nails, pinching etc) 2 it takes the knowledge of running ridgid pipe out of the game( no thinking) 3 it has been " proven " to be safe and lasting the test of time.( bs) 

I have went back to black iron. It is good stuff. I know it lasts and i can tell customers everything about it instead of having to make up stuff about theories . 

Stick with black and you will always install a product that you can stand behind ( if installed correctly) for the rest of your life.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

If we have to get technical, then we have to understand what it is we are doing, and what are options are. Most Plumbers and Inspectors don't understand the terminology of grounding and bonding. 

If we must follow code, then we must throw out the IFGC, because to properly ground and bond a gas system we have to follow the NEC. The NEC says that we must do.

Taken from the NEC article 250.104

"Where installed in or attched to a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likly to become *energized *shall be bonded to the *service equipment, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient, or the one or more grounding electrodes used. *The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the piping systems(s). The equipment grounding conductor for the the circuit that is likely to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible." 

The words in that article that are important are in bold.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Bonding just means that you are connecting to the existing grounding system if one exists. If not then it will need grounded then everything bonded to the ground. If I'm installing gas pipe I will go by what the gas code states. 

This is exactly why I don't like csst. Most inspectors really don't know what they're looking for or really looking at. Rarely do you find inspectors that are on the same page. I've even seen it passed when installed or bonded incorrectly. 

And of course the liability concerns.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> If we have to get technical, then we have to understand what it is we are doing, and what are options are. Most Plumbers and Inspectors don't understand the terminology of grounding and bonding.
> 
> If we must follow code, then we must throw out the IFGC, because to properly ground and bond a gas system we have to follow the NEC. The NEC says that we must do.
> 
> ...


I think I may have misunderstood something.

Are you saying that Flashshield and Counterstrike do not have to be bonded because they are not "regular" CSST?


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Everytime I have a gas leak on CSST it is 90% nail strikdes from the roofer.

The other 10% is lighting strikes to it.

Not a fan of CSST.....


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> I think I may have misunderstood something.
> 
> Are you saying that Flashshield and Counterstrike do not have to be bonded because they are not "regular" CSST?


I have no idea about counterstrike. Never used it. 

Flashsheild needs no additional bonding other than what article 250.104 of the NEC says.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

From Gastite website:
2009 National Fuel Gas Code Update

*October 2008* - NFGC requires bonding of ALL CSST systems per section 7.13 – Electrical Bonding and Grounding.

To obtain a copy of the 2009 edition of the National Fuel Gas Code, please visit www.nfpa.org.
Gastite is a manufacturer of flexible gas piping systems for residential, commercial and industrial applications.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Until the code changes, it is what it is. You may persuade some inspectors some you wont.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Bonding: Connected to establish electrical continuity and connectivity. 

Bonding is not grounding. People allways get that confused. Bonding has nothing to do with the ground, BUT the end result from the bond if it was ever needed will be to the earth(ground) Make since?:laughing:


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

More:


FlashShield is easy to install
No spacing requirements, allowing for simple routing
through complex layouts
*No additional bonding requirements outside those
mandated by local code*
Pre-marked by the foot for easy measuring and installation
Provides the same flexibility as standard CSST
Clean and attractive finished installation


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

I like csst it's fast. But in my cost comparing. For a five drop house is about 500 dollars difference so on a new house unless you get a bulk discount kills the profit. 
I believe counter strike has bonding agent in the sheathing so it's supposedly doesn't need bonded but if my name and insurance is covering my install I want it bonded for extra protection.

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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Will said:


> Bonding: Connected to establish electrical continuity and connectivity.
> 
> Bonding is not grounding. People allways get that confused. Bonding has nothing to do with the ground, BUT the end result from the bond if it was ever needed will be to the earth(ground) Make since?:laughing:



Makes sense to me.. 

Its grounded at a certain point then everything that could become electrically conductive is bonded to the ground.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Manufacturers recommend that its bonded to code. Which means it needs to be bonded the same as all csst.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> Manufacturers recommend that its bonded to code. Which means it needs to be bonded the same as all csst.



Except for Flashsheild. It's to be bonded to what 250.104 of the NEC says......


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