# We would like these products changed.



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Someone said in another thread that manufacturers watch sites like this. Lets list products here that we would like to see made better, or products that have potential problems. Name the product, then under it name what is wrong with it. Please be nice, no need in sarcasm. If we voice our opinion on what is wrong with certain products maybe they will change them. I will start.

Kohler toilets:
Do not self wash very well.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

American Water Heaters: FVIR system design is very poor and plugs up very easily with dust and lint causing severe reliability issues.

Kohler Parts: Too many different parts with every product reinventing the wheel. All the different parts are never stocked even at the factory level. Building product on base designs could end the nightmare.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Kohler fill valves I replace so many of them on toilets new install or Installed as replacement for float ball fill valves in a year or less. Not happy with the way Kohler toilets flush. Many back ups or leaves poop stain in bowl.

Ridgid toilet augers are junk.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

All Kohler parts . WAY to many things to order .

Kohler pressure Balancing valves .

Kohler toilets

Pretty much American Standard everything. ( God that is sad to write )

AOSmith waterheaters are very below standard now.

Price Pfister EVERYTHING !

Cal


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## PipeDreamer (Mar 26, 2009)

Yeah, what Cal said


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Glacier Bay, just stop it all.


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

i wish delta would bring back 2 handle tub/shw. faucets.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

On Man I forgot about Glacier Bay. I tried to block their products and name from my mind.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I will only install LDR plumbing fixtures and parts. They are by far the best!:laughing:


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## M5Plumb (Oct 2, 2008)

They're available...Had to order one just the other day.



leak1 said:


> i wish delta would bring back 2 handle tub/shw. faucets.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> I will only install LDR plumbing fixtures and parts. They are by far the best!:laughing:


You may or may not know this, LDR stands for Larry, Dave, and Ron, they are the three brothers that founded the company, their main warehouse is on Cicero Ave just south of 290. The three of them modeled their import business off the success of Harold Isaacs and his HICO import business, which has it's main warehouse at 32nd and California Ave. They are part of the group of pioneers that brought foreign made plumbing products into wholesale distribution, Jones Stephens took the ball and ran with it and made it a national thing.


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

i never heard of LDR? if they are distributers of foreign made plumbing products Larry, Dave&Ron they can kiss my red - white - &- blue ASS!!!!!
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You may or may not know this, LDR stands for Larry, Dave, and Ron, they are the three brothers that founded the company, their main warehouse is on Cicero Ave just south of 290. The three of them modeled their import business off the success of Harold Isaacs and his HICO import business, which has it's main warehouse at 32nd and California Ave. They are part of the group of pioneers that brought foreign made plumbing products into wholesale distribution, Jones Stephens took the ball and ran with it and made it a national thing.


 
Wow I never did know that. Thank you for the little history lesson. I have to admit one sad truth. I have a LDR faucet handle puller which is the best one I ever used.


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Why do almost all tub spout diverters leak by some when activated ? Why not extend the horn on the bottom of toilets so that it makes into the toilet flange about an inch or two ? This would eliminate 90% of water leaks at the base of toilets.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Wow I never did know that. Thank you for the little history lesson. I have to admit one sad truth. I have a LDR faucet handle puller which is the best one I ever used.


My intention wasn't to shame anyone, more to show how and why imported products got popular in the plumbing industry, supply houses have profit over product as their main goal, and they will buy product for resale from the cheapest source to increase profit margins. I was not trying to imply that there is anything wrong in buying these products from your supplier, in a lot of cases they offer no alternative.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

B & K faucets
The single lever lav faucets leak aroung the handle straight out of the box. Comes with a wrench to tighten it with. Delta look alike, or copy cat. Tub/shower valves leak water through the spout brand new. Won't shut off :ban:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Apcom electric water heater thermostats. The case always pops open which causes the stat to fail in the on position. The last 15-20 stats I've replaced were Apcoms(instead of thermodisk).

If there are any heater manufacturers out there watching, DON"T USE APCOM BRAND THERMOSTATS until they make a serious design change.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Ever tried to repair the ballcock that comes in a Drake toilet tank? Holy Moly. Gimme a fluid master any day.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> My intention wasn't to shame anyone, more to show how and why imported products got popular in the plumbing industry, supply houses have profit over product as their main goal, and they will buy product for resale from the cheapest source to increase profit margins. I was not trying to imply that there is anything wrong in buying these products from your supplier, in a lot of cases they offer no alternative.


 Oh I was not shamed.. I truly appreciate the education. Plumbing history is about the only history I enjoy. I buy up all sorts of old old steam, pipe fitting, boilers, plumbing and code books I can get my hands on. And learning the history behind a company that supplies plumbing stuffs is good too.

About the suppliers selling crap as your only alternative, I agree 100% thats why I have accounts with 20 different supply houses. If one stops carrying what I like then I move on to the other. Like when the supply house I bought my Bradford White water heaters from went to Rheem I found a new supply house.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

State used to make a water heater with a knob on the bottom that stuck out from the APCOM thermostat. Bumping it would wreck the thermostat. Oh, yeah, good design.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Again ,,, KOHLER !!  Just spent $ 235 on all new parts for the K-306 Shw control valve . That covers the pressure bal spool and head ,, that is all there is ,,,,,, STILL LEAKS, STILL DOESN'T MIX PROPERLY !!! WTF ??? WTF ??? WTF ?? I am so tired of this Kohler crap !!! Makes us all look like idiots in front of our customers .


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## M5Plumb (Oct 2, 2008)

Cal, I feel for ya brother...I had to go do a Moen 1222 cart, pretty simple right...Well, changed the cart, still leaks by. Those valves are built like a brick $#ithouse...This is what I figure happened....The house in foreclosure, a short sale and I get called in, shut the water off in the house, (gate valve mind you), looking at the shower valve it appears out of round, (vise grips form old HO maybe??). :furious: Anyhow, end up capping that off, so the HO can get herself better set for a replacement valve. Then go to turn on the water, the gate will not open, again, I am on the assumption at this point the old HO cranked the valve, :furious:separated the disk from stem, find that it was also tampered with, change out the valve for a ball valve. I felt so bad for this poor woman, I heavily discounted the labor for her given the scenario whe was in...single mom, two kids...



Cal said:


> Again ,,, KOHLER !!  Just spent $ 235 on all new parts for the K-306 Shw control valve . That covers the pressure bal spool and head ,, that is all there is ,,,,,, STILL LEAKS, STILL DOESN'T MIX PROPERLY !!! WTF ??? WTF ??? WTF ?? I am so tired of this Kohler crap !!! Makes us all look like idiots in front of our customers .


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## KratzerPlumbing (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey suppliers quit putting those sh...y plastic pop-up assemblies in with your expensive faucets. A little news flash if a customer pays over $200 for just a lavy faucet they do not want the plumber telling them it will be another $60 for a metal pop-up assembly. I hate those plastic pieces. After about 3 of them cracking on me I refuse to install them and always sell a real pop-up made by Wolverine Brass


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

thats how lowes & home depo can beat my prices by selling delta faucets w/ plastic junk pop-ups when my same faucets are brass pop-ups.
the average h.o. dont know better!


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

You guys have just reminded me of my # 1 pet peeve !!! Plastic pop ups = SH*T !!!!


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Couldn't agree more about Kohler. Find a system that works (Delta,Moen) and stick with it. In my experience, the best overall faucet design is Delta's spring and seat. They last awhile and fairly easy and inexspensive to fix. Though I hear they are changing to a new "diamond technology" we'll see how well those are in time.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I push Moen , delta ,, even some Danze ,,,, but the damn kohler stuff keeps coming around for repairs ,,, good $$ but ,, HASSLE !!


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Cal said:


> I push Moen , delta ,, even some Danze ,,,, but the damn kohler stuff keeps coming around for repairs ,,, good $$ but ,, HASSLE !!


Danze is pure crap too, not as bad as Water Works, but pretty bad. Dornbracht and Rohl both have terrific tech support departments for trouble shooting problems with their products.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Danze is pure crap too, not as bad as Water Works, but pretty bad. Dornbracht and Rohl both have terrific tech support departments for trouble shooting problems with their products.


 Would ya mind adding ,,,, " In my humble opinion ? " please .


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## kellybhutchings (Jul 29, 2008)

I also want the 2 and 3 handle tub and shower valves by Delta to return.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Dornbracht wall mounted residential toilets (the ones with the tank installed inside of the partition) flush poorly at best. No power what so ever. The flush valve plugs easily from debris in the supply line and when service is required, they are a pain to remove through the four by eight hole in the wall left by the flush button panel. Anyone else install these recently?


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## tnoisaw (Jun 16, 2009)

Another vote for Kohler faucets. I do like the Kohler Cimmeron toilet.

Also another vote for plastic pop-ups. I had to replace one yesturday on a ped lav. Pain in the ol' rear end


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

markb said:


> Dornbracht wall mounted residential toilets (the ones with the tank installed inside of the partition) flush poorly at best. No power what so ever. The flush valve plugs easily from debris in the supply line and when service is required, they are a pain to remove through the four by eight hole in the wall left by the flush button panel. Anyone else install these recently?


 
Not a dornbracht, but I have gerberit. I know what you mean with the access. Anyone with hands bigger than a 3 year old, forget it. I just did 2 in a house about 3 months ago.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You can say that again. I did a call recently for an employee of danze. He got some fixtures from the company to test out and wanted me to install them. ALL of them were defective. Toilets had hair line casting cracks that leaked when filled up. Faucets with bad threads and elliptical trim.

Complete garbage. The ****** eyed guys putting this stuff together were laughing the whole time!



Killertoiletspider said:


> Danze is pure crap too, not as bad as Water Works, but pretty bad. Dornbracht and Rohl both have terrific tech support departments for trouble shooting problems with their products.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

One of my pet peeves,,,, pedistal lavs. They suck . Hey, someone start a pet peeve thread. Would be interseting


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## tnoisaw (Jun 16, 2009)

Plasticman said:


> One of my pet peeves,,,, pedistal lavs. They suck . Hey, someone start a pet peeve thread. Would be interseting


I 2nd that. I had to replace a pop-up assembly yesterday on one.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Plasticman said:


> One of my pet peeves,,,, pedistal lavs. They suck . Hey, someone start a pet peeve thread. Would be interseting


Here it is

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/pet-peeves-434/


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