# longevity



## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

It seems to me we have fallen victin to the bs just as diy,ers have.

Sharkbites warrantied twenty five years.

Plastic pex fittings warrantied thirty yrs.

And many other products.

A house should last longer than that. I,ve seen galvy older, why not pipe with it.

We as trade, not all. succomb to money and bs killing ourselves.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I've seen copper installed in the 80's and 90's failing with pinholes, slab leaks, etc. PEX is not going anywhere and as much as it makes are jobs easier, it's still a good product. I'd put it in my home before copper or way before galvy. Just did a copper repair the other day. House built in 1988, had a pin hole leak above slab on the cold side feeding the upstairs. Copper ain't the wonder product some think it is.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Pex isn,t going anywhere, and i would put in my house due to cost, however i beleive under normal water conditions coppwr is the supperior choice.

Ther are always exceptions, but thst is exactly what they r


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Type M copper is part of the problem I think. Look how thick galvanized is, is it any wonder that it has lasted so long, for goodness sake. 

Yes, people are often put off when they know that galvanized lasted 60 plus years, and copper does not seem to last long. I often wonder what it would be like to still install plumbing of that caliber. 

As for the pex argument, count me in for plumbing my house with it, instead of type m copper.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I'd put Wirsbo in my home not because it's cheaper than copper, but because it will outlast copper(my opinion). I believe alot of the stuff out today is a disgrace to the plumbing trade, but I don't believe PEX pipe is.

Plumbing is not the only construction feild slacking today. Framing is a joke now, so is roofing, tiling, painting, etc. It's a sad thing, but it's in every field.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Think about this. Your Grand Father probably piped with galvanized. Then you go in and say who in their right mind wants this junk for? Now you use pex. Imagine in about 2 to 3 generations a plumber and his helper will go into the house you re piped and look at the pex and say who in their right minds uses this outdated junk any more?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

From what I understand all this will be moot. Having perfected the repair coupling Schwinn is now working on total piping. The days of pin holes and rusting out are over.:thumbup:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

In my opinion there is not such thing as a cure-all piping material, pex can't be used in every single piping application same goes for other materials, copper can't be used with well water with a neutral ph cause it will corrode out or even city water with a neutral ph, pex can't be used out in the sun or cpvc can't either, but PVC painted with a plastics paint can be, copper can be used outside also, but y'all see what I'm Sayin every situation is different, a large commercial building obessly can't be piped with pex because of the durrabiilty factor and pex is combustible so it can't be used in alot of multiple story commercial buildings. cpvc is shiot so I'm not gonna even go there :laughing: pex is a great alternative to cpvc in my opinion. but you see the point I'm making every situation is different.


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

My house i used wirsbo going to all the stops, the main runs were in type K. I'm more worried about the fittings then the pipe. 

FYI out here M copper can't be used for potable water its L or K.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

beachplumber said:


> It seems to me we have fallen victin to the bs just as diy,ers have.
> 
> *Sharkbites warrantied twenty five years.*
> 
> ...


 
Thats a long warranty , there not going to give a lifetime warranty.

Ive seen enuff old galvy to know not to pipe with it


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

Indie said:


> Type M copper is part of the problem I think. Look how thick galvanized is, is it any wonder that it has lasted so long, for goodness sake.
> 
> Yes, people are often put off when they know that galvanized lasted 60 plus years, and copper does not seem to last long. I often wonder what it would be like to still install plumbing of that caliber.
> 
> As for the pex argument, count me in for plumbing my house with it, instead of type m copper.


 
I have been in plenty of buildings from the early 50's in copper, still going strong.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

You guys ever use or see tp (threadless pipie), it's copper pipe not tubing that is soldered its expensive but here that will out last anything. 
Let's not forget that copper has amazing antibacterial properties!


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> You guys ever use or see tp (threadless pipie), it's copper pipe not tubing that is soldered its expensive but here that will out last anything.
> Let's not forget that copper has amazing antibacterial properties!


I agree I love copper, ive seen alot of old copper still in perfect shape, in Mississippi copper will outlast the house it's self, even here in fl I've seen alot of old copper still in good shape


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Honestly when i first started we finished up our "Galv " era on two jobs ... YOU CAN HAVE THAT !! What a PIA ! And really ,, how ya getting all the oil out of it ??? Copper has been king for me for decades . That being said , i've switched to cpvc ,, had no problems but that won't last . CPVC won't make it too much longer ,, it really does get brittle . So i've recently picked up a bunch of PEX . I like it ,, have brass fittings . Would prefer to use copper fittings BUT WERE DO YA GET EM ??? . I can't sell the plastic fittings ,,, too many folks around here got CRUSHED by the poly mess and would stone me if suggested plastic fittings . Have no problem trying new products ,,, just give me something worth putting my name too ! 
my .02


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Well, for all that being said why not just go back to lead. :laughing:

Grandpa, are you talking Type m? I don't usually see problems with old L, but plenty of problems with the type m, used over the last 25 years or so.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Indie said:


> Well, for all that being said why not just go back to lead. :laughing:
> 
> Grandpa, are you talking Type m? I don't usually see problems with old L, but plenty of problems with the type m, used over the last 25 years or so.


DUDE ,,, i was just sharing :laughing::laughing: ! Actually ,, Old Town Alexandria about 5 miles from George Washington's house . We removed a working waterline made of Bamboo


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Cal said:


> DUDE ,,, i was just sharing :laughing::laughing: ! Actually ,, Old Town Alexandria about 5 miles from George Washington's house . We removed a working waterline made of Bamboo


 We still have oak water mains in some areas of Seattle.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> We still have oak water mains in some areas of Seattle.


it seems as though it would rot


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## PlumberShep (Sep 22, 2010)

I was the plumbing super for the remodel on the Frank M johnson federal courthouse.Every water line in it was red brass and it looked as good ,inside and out, as the day it was installed.(1932-33)Unfortunately red brass of that vintage contains quite a bit of lead, so it had to go.I had the green light from the GSA and the general contracter to do with it what I wanted.Man, I could use a pay day like that right about now.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

In Colorado Springs, Co. copper plumbing is nearly immortal. It never pinholes, corrodes, turns green, or gives any trouble at all. No kidding, cut a piece out to fix a freeze break and it's just as solid as the day it was made. Just 40 miles south in Pueblo however, five year old type M starts to fail.

Galvy seems to make it about 40 to 50 years in the Springs before it rusts itself shut, but strangely, it seldom pinholes. In Pueblo, there isn't a whole lot of galvy left, but I've replaced a lot of the copper that replaced the galvy....:yes: What is plumbing culture shock to me is how many homes in the Houston area were plumbed with galvy in the late 70's and early 80's. Back home we were pretty much done with galvy about 1960...

I too have seen a system from the 1930's done in threaded red brass that was still perfectly functional. In fact, I have a plumbing fantasy that involves plumbing my own home in threaded red brass......:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

It's really simple....

We have a lot of different materials to pick from and what you should install is the materials that will best withstand the water conditions in your area.... :whistling2:

Copper may be a great material lasting well over 50 years in New York City but if you install it in Central Florida it wont make it 15 years...

PEX with Brass Fittings may be great in Central Florida but if you install it in Las Vegas it will quickly fail... As demonstrated by Kitek, Zurn, Wirsbo, & Rehau...

Pick what works best for you in your area....


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

Redwood said:


> It's really simple....
> 
> We have a lot of different materials to pick from and what you should install is the materials that will best withstand the water conditions in your area.... :whistling2:
> 
> ...


I agree. Let's not forget that the quality of the install has alot to do with it also. I do alot of pex, cpvc and copper repairs on houses less than 15 years old. But I also see houses in the same neighborhood 30+ years old copper and no problems. I'd say about 90% of the failures I see, what ever the material, are do to sloppy workmanship or damage caused by other trades during construction. The other 10% are due to faulty materials or old age. 
I plumbed my house in type L, but it's completely sleeved under the slab and I used a code legal flux and solder. This can not be said about the houses I see with copper leaks. In my book whatever you use should last at least as long as a mortgage! But there are hacks out there that only care that it lasts through the 1 year builder's warranty. Thanks to them my kids will get to go to college.


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