# CPVC water lines -CONS



## billy_awesome (Dec 19, 2011)

Hey everyone, currently doing a project in school for my plumbing apprenticeship. I'm covering different kinds of water lines, new and old. I'm touching a bit on CPVC water lines. I see them every now and then, in Ontario you rarely see them and they seem frowned apon in the plumbers community.

Doing a quick google search I found many pros for using CPVC water lines (mainly from do it yourself'ers and corporate product pusher's) but I want to hear some cons from plumbers who have seen all the bad from this product. 

The only thing I can find is fittings can separate if temperate fluctuates rapidly over years of use. But that may be a crock.

Let me know what you guys think, thanks.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Cpvc is total ****, it splits, cracks, household chemicals eat it up, and it gets very brittle in time. Cpvc Is right up there w/ poly-b.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

when you need to do a repair, good luck turning the water back on before you leave


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

I got a pro...copper theifs won't steal it. 

We do a lot of major jobs with it per specs, no idea why.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I might get flamed for this but, When I go on a job with cpvc, I tie into it with shark bites. That stuff is some real garbage that gets insanely brittle and can crack where you can't see it. If you use the glue, you're supposed to wait 2 hours before you turn the water on. I don't think the customer wants to wait for me that long. So, a sharkbite is the only way to go IMO.


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> I might get flamed for this but, When I go on a job with cpvc, I tie into it with shark bites. That stuff is some real garbage that gets insanely brittle and can crack where you can't see it. If you use the glue, you're supposed to wait *2 hours* before you turn the water on. I don't think the customer wants to wait for me that long. So, a sharkbite is the only way to go IMO.


 
Oatley has a 1-6 min set up for their all purp glue (cpvc,pvc) and 15mins for good handling 
strength. Those high dry times are for high psi pipes. 
http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/i.../Submittal_Sheet/Oatey_All_Purpose_Cement.pdf

If I'm wrong please correct me!:thumbup:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

CPVC and PVC weak points are at the transition fitting...I don't use them, but like making the repairs.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> Cpvc is total ****, it splits, cracks, household chemicals eat it up, and it gets very brittle in time. Cpvc Is right up there w/ poly-b.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


That a good or bad thing?:nerd:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

mpsllc said:


> That a good or bad thing?:nerd:


Both, good for us service plumbers cause we will always have work fixing the stuff, bad for the customer, and manufacture.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Mississippiplum said:


> Both, good for us service plumbers cause we will always have work fixing the stuff, bad for the customer, and manufacture.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


Specially in the winter under a wood floor. Yip yip!:thumbup:
It has horrid resistance to freeze conditions.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

RealCraftsMan said:


> Oatley has a 1-6 min set up for their all purp glue (cpvc,pvc) and 15mins for good handling
> strength. Those high dry times are for high psi pipes.
> http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/instance_assets/assets/Submittal_Sheet/Oatey_All_Purpose_Cement.pdf
> 
> If I'm wrong please correct me!:thumbup:


Could be, I've only used flow guard gold.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

mpsllc said:


> Specially in the winter under a wood floor. Yip yip!:thumbup:
> It has horrid resistance to freeze conditions.


Ive seen the stuff break from just barely moving it. We come across cases were the HO went to turn a stop off and the stop brakes right off at the stubout.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I don't think CPVC is total junk. I have used it a few times & it worked great & lasted a long time. The few places I used it are as follows;

Safety locks for my sliding windows.
Holder for my extra hacksaw blades.
Stakes for my string lines, when laying out under ground.:laughing:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Don The Plumber said:


> I don't think CPVC is total junk. I have used it a few times & it worked great & lasted a long time. The few places I used it are as follows;
> 
> Safety locks for my sliding windows.
> Holder for my extra hacksaw blades.
> Stakes for my string lines, when laying out under ground.:laughing:


Lmfao, that has to be the funniest thing I've read in a while.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

CPVC Pros and Cons.
Well I have a huge long list of Cons so I'll start with the Pros:
Um, wait... gimme a sec. Well there's the.. uh, no, wait . . . that's for PB. Um, let me get back to you on this.


:no:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I wish all piping would have nothing but pro's to use them sadly all water piping has pro's and con's. I would venture to say that the majority of problems with all piping arrives due to the installation of that product.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> I might get flamed for this but, When I go on a job with cpvc, I tie into it with shark bites. That stuff is some real garbage that gets insanely brittle and can crack where you can't see it. If you use the glue, you're supposed to wait 2 hours before you turn the water on. I don't think the customer wants to wait for me that long. So, a sharkbite is the only way to go IMO.



i've never had any trouble only waiting 20 min.


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

I had a 3/4" 90 blow off in my face yesterday while I was reconnecting a water heater, followed closely by the 3/4" stream of water drenching me. First cold weekend of winter here and I was soaked. And pissed!!!


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## Evelse (Feb 2, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> I might get flamed for this but, When I go on a job with cpvc, I tie into it with shark bites. That stuff is some real garbage that gets insanely brittle and can crack where you can't see it. If you use the glue, you're supposed to wait 2 hours before you turn the water on. I don't think the customer wants to wait for me that long. So, a sharkbite is the only way to go IMO.


I agree. I don't use shark bites on a regular basis. I use them to connect to CPVC and that Quest PEX that's still around once in awhile. Other than that I prefer copper or Wirsbo PEX. I just don't trust gluing a water line. I've done it a few times when I worked for someone years back. I had no problems with it not working I just didn't like it


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

beachplumber said:


> i've never had any trouble only waiting 20 min.


Me either, but I always get an uneasy feeling when I pull out of the driveway of the job. I hate having uneasy feelings about jobs. The best work is work you can walk away from and not think about again.


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## marionkyplumber (Feb 8, 2012)

RealCraftsMan said:


> I got a pro...copper theifs won't steal it.
> 
> We do a lot of major jobs with it per specs, no idea why.


Good point


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## marionkyplumber (Feb 8, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> I might get flamed for this but, When I go on a job with cpvc, I tie into it with shark bites. That stuff is some real garbage that gets insanely brittle and can crack where you can't see it. If you use the glue, you're supposed to wait 2 hours before you turn the water on. I don't think the customer wants to wait for me that long. So, a sharkbite is the only way to go IMO.


2 hrs holy s**t why so long if it won't hold in 15 minutes your just wasting 1 45 mins for same outcome


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## marionkyplumber (Feb 8, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> I might get flamed for this but, When I go on a job with cpvc, I tie into it with shark bites. That stuff is some real garbage that gets insanely brittle and can crack where you can't see it. If you use the glue, you're supposed to wait 2 hours before you turn the water on. I don't think the customer wants to wait for me that long. So, a sharkbite is the only way to go IMO.


We use water and a hydrostatic pump and test to 160lbs after 15 minutes and rarely had a blow out but cpvc blows . I use pex now that I moved to ky ! Florida is mostly cpvc and copper. Never seen pex there


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

CPVC sucks PERIOD!!


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

i like cpvc . havent had many problems with it. ive fixed cpvc that others have installed , and ive had a few leaks on it, but all in all i would use it and feel confident that it will meet customers expectations.


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## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

I think its totaly insane to install any kind of glued pressure pipe inside a home or elsewhere . I have a customer right now that has a two story house with 20' vaulted ceilings seperating the kitchen from the main plmbg areas, and is on his third insurance claim. He was shocked when I told him how much to repipe his house. When ever I do a repair on that crap I make it very clear to the h/o that I will not gaurantee any repairs and that it will be stipulated on my invoice. However I always use sharkbites and never glue!


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

I have glued 24" pvc sch 80 joints with a roller and a comealong. All still holding years later...


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## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

U666A said:


> I have glued 24" pvc sch 80 joints with a roller and a comealong. All still holding years later...


Thats totaly different from cpvc pipe thats not even sch.40


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

azmike said:


> I think its totaly insane to install any kind of glued pressure pipe inside a home or elsewhere . I have a customer right now that has a two story house with 20' vaulted ceilings seperating the kitchen from the main plmbg areas, and is on his third insurance claim. He was shocked when I told him how much to repipe his house. When ever I do a repair on that crap I make it very clear to the h/o that I will not gaurantee any repairs and that it will be stipulated on my invoice. However I always use sharkbites and never glue!


You said any kind of glued pressure pipe.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ive done a lot of houses with cpvc in Florida and most of Florida still prefers it...pex is coming out a bit......the joint is strong...tests showed 400lbs and the break came in the pipe and not the joint -- Flowgard. It brittles over time and will help the service industry.
Its cheap and labor costs less is a main pro.....holds up against water chemicals but not external solvent based chemicals... Sofar enough bad has not happened to alarm anyone....we go 1/2 hr on 1/2" to turn pressure on with no problem...I would wait longer for hydrostatic testing and we go to 100 lbs. Some dry fits have held a test where they were screwed off...we dont dry fit though...(anymore..I never did)


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Mississippiplum said:


> Cpvc is total ****, it splits, cracks, household chemicals eat it up, and it gets very brittle in time. Cpvc Is right up there w/ poly-b.
> 
> sent from the jobsite porta-potty


I repair it every week. Complete garbage.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Ive done a lot of houses with cpvc in Florida and most of Florida still prefers it...pex is coming out a bit......the joint is strong...tests showed 400lbs and the break came in the pipe and not the joint -- Flowgard. *It brittles over time and will help the service industry.*
> Its cheap and labor costs less is a main pro.....holds up against water chemicals but not external solvent based chemicals... Sofar enough bad has not happened to alarm anyone....we go 1/2 hr on 1/2" to turn pressure on with no problem...I would wait longer for hydrostatic testing and we go to 100 lbs. Some dry fits have held a test where they were screwed off...we dont dry fit though...(anymore..I never did)


How do you look your customers in the eye knowing you're putting in something that is going to fail in a decade or so?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The only place I will use the stuff is on solar pool systems.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Protech said:


> How do you look your customers in the eye knowing you're putting in something that is going to fail in a decade or so?


 Come off it....the GC wants it ..I like pex...where do you get this arrogant self righteous air from....down to size pardner


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

stillaround said:


> Come off it....the GC wants it ..I like pex...where do you get this arrogant self righteous air from....down to size pardner


Of course the GC wants it. He thickens his margin and you assume the liability. It's the home owner who is getting the shaft.


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## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

U666A said:


> I have glued 24" pvc sch 80 joints with a roller and a comealong. All still holding years later...



Grey glue.. Heavy body Slow set?
I don't get to do sch80 to often and it wasn't that big of pipe but that's what I've used.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

CTs2p2 said:


> Grey glue.. Heavy body Slow set?
> I don't get to do sch80 to often and it wasn't that big of pipe but that's what I've used.


Been 6 or 7 years now but as I recall, yes, yes and yes.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

BTW....anyone know how many lawsuits have been happening in the last 21 years of its use in Florida....anyone know of any official studies to prove it a defective product? After 21 years most of the basic problems are in the open-brittleness. How many law suits and code changes....FTR I prefer pex but when the high and mighty spout ...lets say some real factual info is required and not ego-flex......let that rest on Google


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

stillaround said:


> BTW....anyone know how many lawsuits have been happening in the last 21 years of its use in Florida....anyone know of any official studies to prove it a defective product? After 21 years most of the basic problems are in the open-brittleness. How many law suits and code changes....FTR I prefer pex but when the high and mighty spout ...lets say some real factual info is required and not ego-flex......let that rest on Google


I have seen a few in Davenport.


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## AndrewTheScot (Feb 2, 2012)

I was asked by one of the reps for FlowGuard Gold if I would repipe a house about 60 miles from our normal area of work.

Seems the new CPVC system was failing on a regular basis. Not at the joints but long the tubing itself.

They gave me enough CPVC tubing and fittings to do three houses. They wanted every inch of that system replaced and sent back to them.

I kept about 4" of it as a reminder. It is failing under slabs here and I believe it will end up like poly. We use mostly PEX now as we are seeing copper fail here and really fail really fast on hot water recirculation lines that are flowing too fast.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Protech said:


> I have seen a few in Davenport.


Speak of the devil. Thousands of $ in damages. Home is less then 10 years old. 


Tags: cpvc pipe failure, cracked cpvc pipe, cracked cpvc fitting, flowguard gold failure, cpvc house flood, cpvc water damage


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Anyone ever seen that with copper????

Point being...it has not caused a stir in the litigation community...or in the code/approved products community....I'm the one who had issues with cpvc warranty before you had a business...just saying it hasnt risen to an alarming condition in the building community. It has lasted for the most part without issue in its history and remains to be seen if after 20 years dramatic negative results develope........

No one should have a moral issue with installing it...............yet.
Edit:
I will add, we had a restaurant that was developing pinhole like that every few months...the pipe was exposed in the kitchen area...made no sense....


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## Evelse (Feb 2, 2012)

stillaround said:


> Anyone ever seen that with copper????
> 
> Point being...it has not caused a stir in the litigation community...or in the code/approved products community....I'm the one who had issues with cpvc warranty before you had a business...just saying it hasnt risen to an alarming condition in the building community. It has lasted for the most part without issue in its history and remains to be seen if after 20 years dramatic negative results develope........
> 
> ...


It actually was against code around these parts for awhile. Then they started allowing it again. Don't worry I won't preach to you but I personally won't use it. I feel PEX is just as inexpensive as CPVC.

To each their own but I hate the stuff lol


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## Evelse (Feb 2, 2012)

Protech said:


> Speak of the devil. Thousands of $ in damages. Home is less then 10 years old.
> 
> Tags: cpvc pipe failure, cracked cpvc pipe, cracked cpvc fitting, flowguard gold failure, cpvc house flood, cpvc water damage


I've seen that plenty of times with copper. I've actually probably seen it more. The worst culprit is QWEST. That stuff keeps the renovation companies busy.


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## SirAdrian (Dec 14, 2011)

I did a university building where all the water lines were cpvc. The only problems I noticed were trying to run a pipe plum when it looks like a banana, having to support it every meter(3ft). And we had 3 joints pass hydro tests and were n service for 2, 3, and 6 months then blew off. It turned out they were dry fit.


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## SirAdrian (Dec 14, 2011)

I should add that it was all sched 80


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

My best freeze damage repair job ever was in a CPVC piped home where the heat went out while they were on vacation... :thumbup:

It is now a 100% PEX home... :laughing:

I love the stuff! :thumbup:


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ive seen more pex manufactured homes than ever...maybe theyve seen some potential issues....


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## seanny deep (Jan 28, 2012)

I'm So glad you can't even buy cpvc here it sounds like garbage I've seen it maybe twice. Sharkbite to pex both times.


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## xranger3rdbatt (Feb 14, 2012)

Cpvc/pvc made anyone with a hacksaw a "plumber". However you want to look at that, pro and con!


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