# Commercial use of pex?



## d78coots

Are there any restrictions with using pex in commercial buildings? Is it treated like PVC on this matter? Based in Austin which follows UPC.


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## DIZ

some insp. dont allow it in party walls here. Smoke rating issues.


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## d78coots

DIZ said:


> some insp. dont allow it in party walls here. Smoke rating issues.


Interesting. But only in party walls where you are based ( which is?)?

I don't come across PEX very often, as the water is mostly speced for copper. Thinking about using it mainly for certain trim out.


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## Epox

We can use it here in commercial, of course one has to bear in mind air return concerns and surely other considerations.


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## DIZ

Victoria. Smoke rating is the only thing I have been told to be cognizant of. Some insp. insist on cu, some let pex go. Same go's for fire rated washer boxes and fridge boxes.


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## Protech

Legal here.


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## easttexasplumb

I think copper looks so much better than pex, especially in a commercial building.


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## PlumbThis1

our campus standards does not allow it in new Construction. We prefer pex however if prints call for in slab copper. I think there is not enough trust with the product yet. We spend millions a year in cleaning up water damage, and the engineers do not want to trust it yet. I just got them convinced into using grooved copper, for water mains inside the buildings.


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## SHAUN C

d78coots said:


> Are there any restrictions with using pex in commercial buildings? Is it treated like PVC on this matter? Based in Austin which follows UPC.


We did some condos (Barton Place) in pex


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## lma1

d78coots said:


> Are there any restrictions with using pex in commercial buildings? Is it treated like PVC on this matter? Based in Austin which follows UPC.


A commercial bldg can be a “Part 3” or “Part 9” bldg according to our 2006 BC Building Code. A Pt 3 bldg can be a Group A bldg used as an assembly occupancy; a Group D building used for personal services or business with a _bldg area_ exceeding 600 m5 or exceeding 3 storey in _bld height_; a Group E bldg used for mercantile occupancy with the same bldg area and height restrictions as D. A Pt 9 can be either a Group D or E bldg with a _bldg area_ NOT exceeding 600 m5 or NOT exceeding 3 storey in _bldg height_.

PEX is a combustible water piping having a FSR (flame spread rating) = or < 25 and SDC (smoke developed classification) < 50. BCBC states that any combustible piping (e.g. ABS) having an FSR >25 is not permitted to be used in a non-combustible Part 3 building unless it’s concealed in a wall or concrete slab. Moreover, if its SDC is > 50, it can’t be used in a _high(_tall_) bldg. _PEX is therefore permitted to be used in such a commercial bldg. 

PVC is also a combustible water piping having a FSR = 5 and SDC > 100. It therefore can only be used in a part 3 commercial low-rise bldg.

Combustible pipes are not allowed to penetrate an assembly required to have an FRR (fire resistance rating) in a Part 3 non-combustible bldg unless the assembly is tested incorporating that service equipment. The exception to the above is it may penetrate a vertical separation required to have an FRR if its OD (outside diameter) is = or < 30 mm (1-1/16”) and it must be cast in place at the penetration.

Similar conditions apply to a part 9 commercial bldg.


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## d78coots

lma1 said:


> A commercial bldg can be a &#147;Part 3&#148; or &#147;Part 9&#148; bldg according to our 2006 BC Building Code. A Pt 3 bldg can be a Group A bldg used as an assembly occupancy; a Group D building used for personal services or business with a bldg area exceeding 600 m5 or exceeding 3 storey in bld height; a Group E bldg used for mercantile occupancy with the same bldg area and height restrictions as D. A Pt 9 can be either a Group D or E bldg with a bldg area NOT exceeding 600 m5 or NOT exceeding 3 storey in bldg height.
> 
> PEX is a combustible water piping having a FSR (flame spread rating) = or < 25 and SDC (smoke developed classification) < 50. BCBC states that any combustible piping (e.g. ABS) having an FSR >25 is not permitted to be used in a non-combustible Part 3 building unless it&#146;s concealed in a wall or concrete slab. Moreover, if its SDC is > 50, it can&#146;t be used in a high(tall) bldg. PEX is therefore permitted to be used in such a commercial bldg.
> 
> PVC is also a combustible water piping having a FSR = 5 and SDC > 100. It therefore can only be used in a part 3 commercial low-rise bldg.
> 
> Combustible pipes are not allowed to penetrate an assembly required to have an FRR (fire resistance rating) in a Part 3 non-combustible bldg unless the assembly is tested incorporating that service equipment. The exception to the above is it may penetrate a vertical separation required to have an FRR if its OD (outside diameter) is = or < 30 mm (1-1/16&#148 and it must be cast in place at the penetration.
> 
> Similar conditions apply to a part 9 commercial bldg.


Damn good info. Thank you.


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## d78coots

SHAUN C said:


> We did some condos (Barton Place) in pex


How many stories?


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## ckoch407

Uponor is used in lots of hotels now. They make it in 3" now for big mains.


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## SHAUN C

d78coots said:


> How many stories?


Six


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## Mpls Jay

ckoch407 said:


> Uponor is used in lots of hotels now. They make it in 3" now for big mains.


*Thread drift alert!*

The expansion tool is around 10k.


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## SHAUN C

Hey coots who are you working for in Austin?


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## d78coots

SHAUN C said:


> Hey coots who are you working for in Austin?


Icon. And you?


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## d78coots

Mpls Jay said:


> *Thread drift alert!*
> 
> The expansion tool is around 10k.


Wow.


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## SHAUN C

d78coots said:


> Icon. And you?


Myself right now, it's slowing down, I'll probably jump back to commercial before summer


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## lma1

I wish to clarify a point I made in my initial response of Mar 29/11 to d78coots: For a Part 9 bldg as defined in the Code, combustible pipes are not allowed to penetrate an assembly required to have an FRR (fire resistance rating) unless the assembly is tested incorporating that service equipment. The exception to the above is it may penetrate a vertical separation required to have an FRR if its OD (outside diameter) is = or < 30 mm (1-1/16”) and it must be cast in place at the penetration.

The above conditions of penetrating a fire separation are similar to the requirements for a Part 3 commercial bldg. However, the requirements on pipe’s FSR/SDC & enclosing such pipes are relaxed in a Part 9 commercial bldg.


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