# LP GAS Questions



## cowserj (Aug 14, 2009)

I just sent off to get my L.P. gas exemption from the railroad commission so that i can start doing propane installs for my customers. I have done tons of natural gas installs i assume that the same sizing charts and piping materials are alright i just wanted to check with some of you guys that have done this type of stuff a lot to see if there is anything different other then the tie in and regulator that i need to look into.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The sizing charts are very different. Here in FL, our fuel gas code book has charts for natural and propane.


----------



## cowserj (Aug 14, 2009)

I suppose that part of my question was dumb since lp gas runs at a slightly higher pressure so obviously the sizing can be a little different but i plan on over sizing for future expansion anyway. My main concern was with whether my typical install materials and practices would still be ok i usually run PE for my underground and transition to schedule 40 black at house with a shut off and union and run the screw pipe in attic and occasionally use tracpipe for hard to get to spots. is there anything anyone does differently with there installs as far as materials or practices just because its LP


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I mis-read your question. 

I will occasionally replace an LP water heater, but the new installs here are mostly done by the LP company supplying the tank and the gas. I only have been asked to install new piping for natural; I don't run into LP installs.


In fact, I met another plumber this week at the supply house who will replace an LP W/H, re-connect the water lines, but he won't re-connect the LP gas. He tells the customer to call the gas supplier. He doesn't want the liability associated with LP.


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> In fact, I met another plumber this week at the supply house who will replace an LP W/H, re-connect the water lines, but he won't re-connect the LP gas. He tells the customer to call the gas supplier. He doesn't want the liability associated with LP.


Wow, it's not hard to reconnect, not a good plumber?


----------



## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Here it's LP supplier to the regulator. I would not trust them to tighten a union inside the house. They also sell water softener services. I wouldn't let them put on an ice maker line inside the house.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

GREENPLUM said:


> Wow, it's not hard to reconnect, not a good plumber?


 












I guess he is afraid of getting sued from here to kingdom come.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

cowserj said:


> I just sent off to get my L.P. gas exemption from the railroad commission so that i can start doing propane installs for my customers. I have done tons of natural gas installs i assume that the same sizing charts and piping materials are alright i just wanted to check with some of you guys that have done this type of stuff a lot to see if there is anything different other then the tie in and regulator that i need to look into.


Here in ky we have a bunch of Amish houses all with lip gas,the buggiest line is 1/2" no matter how many openings,and they come off the 1/2" with 1/4" copper to all fixtures and it carries everything just fine:yes:


----------



## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

sparky said:


> cowserj said:
> 
> 
> > I just sent off to get my L.P. gas exemption from the railroad commission so that i can start doing propane installs for my customers. I have done tons of natural gas installs i assume that the same sizing charts and piping materials are alright i just wanted to check with some of you guys that have done this type of stuff a lot to see if there is anything different other then the tie in and regulator that i need to look into.
> ...



Electricity from the grid is the devil. If it comes from a generator, good to go


----------



## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> I guess he is afraid of getting sued from here to kingdom come.


Scared to connect a 1/2" gas line.....not much of a plumber


----------



## OldNelly (Jun 3, 2015)

cowserj said:


> I suppose that part of my question was dumb since lp gas runs at a slightly higher pressure so obviously the sizing can be a little different but i plan on over sizing for future expansion anyway. My main concern was with whether my typical install materials and practices would still be ok i usually run PE for my underground and transition to schedule 40 black at house with a shut off and union and run the screw pipe in attic and occasionally use tracpipe for hard to get to spots. is there anything anyone does differently with there installs as far as materials or practices just because its LP


From the tank/primary regulator I run 5/8" type K copper underground to the secondary regulator. From there on it is all the same piping practices as natural gas. Sizing comes from the propane tables in our code book.


----------



## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I do alot of LP/Propane work. Here in Oklahoma you have to have an additionally license to install LP/Propane. All work is between me and the LP supplier. I inspect my own work, LP provider will also inspect my work. Here we prefer to do a 2 stage regular system. Inside the propane tank you have anywhere from 50-150 psi depending on outside temperature. 1st regular will knock tank pressure to 10 psi. Incoming gas serivce has 10 psi, which explains how 1/2" copper and supply a house. At house we install a 2nd regular to knock pressure to 11-13 WC".


----------



## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

http://www.regoproducts.com/pdfs/L-545_Servicemans_Manual.pdf


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I dont run much LP on the Island, but upstate at my place I piped the house in black pipe the same sizing as natural gas, LP is denser and most appliances do both with a conversion kit making the orifices smaller..the LP supplier ran copper under ground to the house regulator..and they run copper throughout houses when they do the installs of appliances and heating equipment..


----------



## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

When I was in business I always sized for natural gas for propane for the possible conversion in the future. That was only if I knew NG was close by. Out in the sticks where the possibility for NG was a snow balls chance in hell it was sized for LP.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

cowserj said:


> I suppose that part of my question was dumb since lp gas runs at a slightly higher pressure so obviously the sizing can be a little different but i plan on over sizing for future expansion anyway. My main concern was with whether my typical install materials and practices would still be ok i usually run PE for my underground and transition to schedule 40 black at house with a shut off and union and run the screw pipe in attic and occasionally use tracpipe for hard to get to spots. is there anything anyone does differently with there installs as far as materials or practices just because its LP


The difference in pipe size is not related to the pressure. The two gases burn differently.


----------



## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

plbgbiz said:


> The difference in pipe size is not related to the pressure. The two gases burn differently.


Yeah. 

1000 Btu/cuft nat gas

2488 Btu/cuft LP

IIRC. Don't do much LP.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Toli said:


> Yeah.
> 
> 1000 Btu/cuft nat gas
> 
> ...













That difference also explains why propane, being a lot heavier than the ambient air, sinks and remains in low areas, such as basements. In fact, some water heater manufacturers require their LP gas W/H's not be installed in basements.


----------



## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

Tommy plumber said:


> That difference also explains why propane, being a lot heavier than the ambient air, sinks and remains in low areas, such as basements. In fact, some water heater manufacturers require their LP gas W/H's not be installed in basements.


I do 90% LP and 99.9% basments and have never heard anything about about not installing in basements. And am very surprised that my local inspectors have not mentioned it. They are usually on top of stuff like that. I mean there trying to stop me from using pvc for flue gas. Only time I've been prevented from installing anything in a basement is when it's a flood zone concern.


----------



## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

That's why we test gas systems, and have safety's on equipment. I have never heard of this requirement either.


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

paultheplumber1 said:


> I do 90% LP and 99.9% basments and have never heard anything about about not installing in basements. And am very surprised that my local inspectors have not mentioned it. They are usually on top of stuff like that. I mean there trying to stop me from using pvc for flue gas. Only time I've been prevented from installing anything in a basement is when it's a flood zone concern.


You use pvc pipe for regular holding tank water heaters????never heard of that beforeeek::laughing::laughing::no:


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Ok LP funny time.

Several years ago the GC thought he would help and light the heater while two of us were upstairs finishing trim out.

I was lying on the floor under a sink on the first floor hear a ""WUUMMMP" went downstairs to find out what was up. Cleared the steps and found the GC jumping up and down like a goat putting cardboard on fire out all across the basement.

Half is mustache burnt off and all the hair on one arm, even caught the loose fiberglass on the back of a tub on fire.

He had cracked the union, couldn't smell gas quickly, so left it open for a while. Since his sniffer was burnt out when the gas got to the union he didn't smell it. Lit the pilot and one big fireball.

The about 4 or so hours later at about 7pm he gets a call from the new owner that their fire alarms are going off. He runs back over and in the basement the back of the fiberglass tub with the frayed fiberglass was still smoldering partially melting the unit down............

Ya can't fix stupid...........


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbdrum said:


> That's why we test gas systems, and have safety's on equipment. I have never heard of this requirement either.












Don't you remember we had this conversation and I showed you the manual?......:whistling2:


----------



## TerryO (Oct 12, 2012)

GAN said:


> Ok LP funny time. Several years ago the GC thought he would help and light the heater while two of us were upstairs finishing trim out. I was lying on the floor under a sink on the first floor hear a ""WUUMMMP" went downstairs to find out what was up. Cleared the steps and found the GC jumping up and down like a goat putting cardboard on fire out all across the basement. Half is mustache burnt off and all the hair on one arm, even caught the loose fiberglass on the back of a tub on fire. He had cracked the union, couldn't smell gas quickly, so left it open for a while. Since his sniffer was burnt out when the gas got to the union he didn't smell it. Lit the pilot and one big fireball. The about 4 or so hours later at about 7pm he gets a call from the new owner that their fire alarms are going off. He runs back over and in the basement the back of the fiberglass tub with the frayed fiberglass was still smoldering partially melting the unit down............ Ya can't fix stupid...........


I have a friend that lifted his two story house that was just framed 12" off its foundation when he went into the basement to light an LP temporary heater that had leaked a 100 lb tank of gas into said basement... and he lived... although he spent around 5 months in the hospital.


----------



## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> Don't you remember we had this conversation and I showed you the manual?......:whistling2:


Um, no


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> The difference in pipe size is not related to the pressure. The two gases burn differently.


Granted, but LP is delivered to the appliance at 11_±_ iwc where NG is delivered at 7"_± _iwc


----------

