# Charging special tool to job



## Mendonative (Apr 11, 2018)

Hello everyone, I've been plumbing for a little over 8 years but just recently went into business for myself last December. So I'm pretty green as far as running the business side of things. I have to order a rotory hammer drill for a job. Renting is not an option as I work in a very rural area and there is no tool rental place within 75 miles. So I have to buy it. My question is would it be unethical to charge the full cost of the tool and the bits I will need to the job? The job is T&M. Sorry if this seems like a stupid questions but Im just starting out and don't want to develop a reputation for being shady


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

No you can't just charge the full price of that tool to the job. You can build some of it in to your price or have a special tool fee and over time you will slowly pay it off and start making money on it. 

You can charge what ever you want to and if the customer is willing to pay your price then ok but if you tack such high price items on to the job full price you will soon get a bad reputation.

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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

If it's a big enough job you can but common sense says just add a little into the job quote for it. Add accordingly though, replacing a 3 or 4" prv or shut off valve overnight with a propress, absolutely you add a premium to the quote.


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## Mendonative (Apr 11, 2018)

It's not a huge job, but not a small one either considering that I'm a one man operation. It's a total gut of an old granny unit. They want all plumbing moved to the opposite side of the building so now I have to bring 3" abs and through two concrete walls. That's what the tool is for. But it's just one full bathroom, a kitchen, and laundry room. It'll probably end up being a $5-6000 rough in. I don't mind eating the cost of the tool as I will use it again just not that often so it would be nice to be able to charge even a portion of the cost to the job.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

That tool will last you a lifetime. If I use my small chipper I charge 75$ for it. I paid 900$ for it. It will take 10 years or more to recoup the investment. I save the time to rent it and bring it back. It is mine and I know it's condition. I also used it to remove my bathroom tile and foundation cement finish. 

It was a good investment just for my own use I would have to rent it 4 times at 70$ each


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## MMassey338 (Apr 2, 2018)

I have a Bosch rotary hammer that was about $500 and I charge $50 to every job where we use it.


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## plumb1801 (Apr 4, 2014)

Depending on the job specialty tools or tools not used regularly we charge a fee, for example a large jackhammer(Bosch) is around $170.00 plus man hours. If a quickie saw is used then there's a fee for the tool and another fee for the blade. Now if we are replacing a tub on concrete and we need to chisel out the hole a little bigger to move the drain no charge is added. If we are adding a new hose bib and need to drill a hole in the foundation wall the use of a rotary hammer is included in the flat rate price for this task. I consider the rotary hammer, cordless drills and even our hole hawgs tools required to do the job and typically no additional charges are added to the price. If a new tool is needed for a particular job I will include the price of the whole tool in the quote. This is mostly large commercial jobs and some larger residential jobs. Our Propress tools were bought this way.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

MMassey338 said:


> I have a Bosch rotary hammer that was about $500 and I charge $50 to every job where we use it.


 












Everytime that I bring out the Bosch Brut {electric breaker hammer} it's $137.50 in tool rental fee; that is just to bring it to the job. Then there is another fee to break open the floor. I generally use it to repair slab leaks.

And I own the jackhammer, but there is a rental fee to get it to the job.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

ok. 15 years in. heres my 30 cents. 
as I understand it equipment over $1000 dollars in value is depreciated over 5 years

small equipment
ie hole hogs sawzalls etc you depreciate over 1 year. 

I bought a hilti te 56 hammer drill 12 years ago so ive written it all of and its still kickin

i charge per hole when i estimate for drilling and coring

if i had to order a specific attachment that was unique to that job for example i bought an 1 1/4” x 48” hammer drill bit it was $495.00 i billed it to the job.

I like the idea of charging a rental fee for large items that depreciate over 5 years

I figure all our “small power tools” as part of the job. 

worked for a guy who charged $8.00 per hour to cover upkeep of his small tools 
I like that idea too however each business needs to figure their costs in differently 

I would say conservatively add up all your tools that depreciate over 1 year, then divide up how many days a year you will work and make sure youre covering that cost so your not just working to become a tool collector. and your hearing this from a guy who spent his first 5 years in business filling up a 750 sq ft pole barn to the hilt. 

Also on a side note, please dont look at being able to buy equipment as you making money. which i have done too. because the truth is the day you open it out of the box its immediately worth 1/3 original value upon resale. 




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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

JohnnieSqueeze said:


> ok. 15 years in. heres my 30 cents.
> as I understand it equipment over $1000 dollars in value is depreciated over 5 years
> 
> small equipment
> ...




and if you need to see it to believe it, go to an estate sale where the dead guy owned his own business. its a real eye opener when your dead and all your ridgid pipe wrenches have $5.00 price stickers on em so that your wife can survive through retirement. 

make the money boys!


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## JimmyMac (Nov 4, 2015)

See what the rental folks charge per day/per week base it on that. Also highly recommend on equipment that you don't use that often to see what the rental folks sell their equipment for used. Have done that on a couple of the large electric Jackhammers. If we used them everyday, would probably buy new, but not worth it if you don't use everyday. Also it depends on the equipment...ie propress, have 5-6 of the tools, but not worth it for us to buy the set of the larger jaws, which cost as much as the entire tool from 1/2-2". We rent on as needed basis and bill accordingly, we only use maybe 10 times a year. All the rental folks as well as supply houses rent them under $100 a day.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

You have to cover the cost of the heavy-duty/specially tools you use, they cost a lot of money, in turn you need to make that money back for the maintence/parts and then some.

I charge $100 to use my Bosch rotary hammer(cost $900) and $50 for the cost(wear and tear) on drill/coring bits. I charge $100 to for my Ridgid snap cutter, pipe thawer, small inspection camera and a few other tools. Sometimes I charge a $50 cleaning fee for my K-50’s cables( I usually take them to the car wash and spray them off for $3.)
I also charge a dumping fee when I take way HWT/toilets/ped sinks etc.

On my invoice, in the payment section I have a “sundries”(these are all the small bits and pieces too many to mention- ie screws, silicone, sand cloth, solder, flux, gas, crimp rings, shims, saw blades, strapping, glue, W&T on tools etc) and a “travel exp.” box. 

You should charge for everything that cost you money, no matter has small, that you use on each job.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Logtec said:


> You have to cover the cost of the heavy-duty/specially tools you use, they cost a lot of money, in turn you need to make that money back for the maintence/parts and then some.
> 
> I charge $100 to use my Bosch rotary hammer(cost $900) and $50 for the cost(wear and tear) on drill/coring bits. I charge $100 to for my Ridgid snap cutter, pipe thawer, small inspection camera and a few other tools. Sometimes I charge a $50 cleaning fee for my K-50’s cables( I usually take them to the car wash and spray them off for $3.)
> I also charge a dumping fee when I take way HWT/toilets/ped sinks etc.
> ...


Do you by law have to say how much it's going to cost before you start the job? let's say 400$ for labor, 300$ in parts, 100$ in tool use etc.

For me if while working and I need to get the chipper I would have to go see the homeowner and tell him the fee for it. Also every change I need to stop and say the price before I move on. It's getting old real quick.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Tango said:


> Logtec said:
> 
> 
> > You have to cover the cost of the heavy-duty/specially tools you use, they cost a lot of money, in turn you need to make that money back for the maintence/parts and then some.
> ...



It would be “law” if it was in writing in a “contract for a large job” worth thousands of dollars.. (I assume)
I mostly do residential service work, %75 of Jobs are under $500- in and out in 1-3hrs. I always give my price before I start work.

A lot of my service calls are charged by a flat rate + materials etc, based on the nature of the call.
I do some commercial work, bars, restaurants, Tim Hortons, Subway rest, Etc, I just do the work and bill them, they just want the plumbing problem fix ASAP, and I always give them a fair price.

On bigger jobs, I give a rough “estimate”, give or take according to my assessment of the job before I start, (and specially tools used) Customers are warned that sometimes there is extra work/materials in unseen situations, which can change the price of the work.

Nothing is worse than when you come across a “big unseen” issue and you have to tell the customer, “umm we have a problem, and it’s going to cost X more $”...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Logtec said:


> I mostly do residential service work, %75 of Jobs are under $500- in and out in 1-3hrs. I always give my price before I start work.
> 
> A lot of my service calls are charged by a flat rate + materials etc, based on the nature of the call.


I have so many laws I stick to residential in my province depending on the task. In Ontario I can do whatever I want, it's nuts. We are going to have material bonds or special insurance pretty soon to be allowed to operate, more paperwork and nonsense!

What do you say about the price when someone calls you to say they have a leak under the kitchen sink if you are flat rate? Do you say nothing and go there to take a look and maybe they'll turn you away because their is no minimum fee? Or do you charge a dispatch fee before you give a price when you get there?

I really want to know because hourly sucks on some jobs. I tell the hourly rate before I go with minimum 1hr charge. Yesterday I changed a kitchen faucet, installed valves and hammer arrestors, fixed the dishwasher drain within an hour, not profitable at all on that one.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Tango said:


> Logtec said:
> 
> 
> > I mostly do residential service work, %75 of Jobs are under $500- in and out in 1-3hrs. I always give my price before I start work.
> ...


I don’t give in home estimates for small jobs/service calls, unless I’m in the area or it’s good customer(but good/repeat customers, are just happy to get the job done quickly and properly). In home Estimates are not worth your time for a few hundred dollars. 

I never charge by the hour because I work fast, and I’d never make money. 
My min charge for service calls is $120 and in Condos it’s $150(for the hassle of parking signing in, waiting for elevators and buzzing security to get thru doors etc.). 

Flat rate jobs are different: W/c gasket change $150 + parts/tax, W/c rebuild $175, + pats/tax, W/c replace $200+ parts/tax.. etc.

So someone calls me for a leak under a kitchen sink, in a house: 
I ask them a few questions on the phone: type of sink? how old is the sink? type of piping? Can you text me a picture? 
that gives me enough info to give a pretty accurate price.

Say they say “it’s a double sink, and there is small drip under the black plastic bendie on the left side” 
(—translated to plumber:
it’s either the basket strainer, tail piece, or ABS TP adaptor- easy quick fix.)
So I tell them they’re “probably looking at $120 + parts + tax, unless it’s a bigger problem”. 
I get to the job- everything is in good condition but one brass tail piece needs to be replaced, 
I’d charge $120 lab,+ $30(tailpiece gasket and nut)+ tax. 

OR say that double sink is old copper and brass and it needs to be re piped- I would let the customer know that it’s prob best to replace everything from the basket strainers to the wall. 
That’s going to be a flat rate of $150 lab + $100(roughly)materials + tax. The materials will be less then $50 so i make $200 for this job(+ a few $ in scrap), that will usually about an hour and I always carry these mat on my truck. 

(Flatrate: If it takes me 10 mins or 2 hour that’s the price. 9/10 times you’re in and out in an hour or 2.
There is my travel time in there too, but I knock out 3-8 calls a day So that is minimal, cuz I’m already out and about.)

1 out of 50 ppl question flatrate pricing for service calls, when they do I tell them, if it takes me 15 or 2 hrs you pay the same price, 
OR If you want, I can charge you $60/hour, but I’m going to charge you for for my time from when I leave the shop, asses the job, get materials, and complete the work. Could be 3-4 hours + Mat/tax...

A well stocked truck is key to flat rate pricing, then you can mark up the materials. 
If anyone questions the mark up saying:
“you charged me $20 for a Dhal R19, I can get the same one at HD for $10, I tell customer there is a mark up on all materials, like in/at any business. The mark up covers my time- spent to buy the materials, and for the convience of me having mats in stock on my truck, so I can get your job done quicker!”

Lastly, where flatrate pricing is concerned: say im on a job where the customer needs a few dif things done: a w/c rebuild, kt faucet re&re and change a braided supply line. 
Id charge full price for the w/c rebuild($175), 1/2 price for the faucet($75) and tell them I’ll change the water line for free + parts/tax.
1.5-2hrs = $250 lab, + the mark up on materials.
Not bad. 

I hope this helps.

Check out this book- see pic.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Logtec said:


> I don’t give in home estimates for small jobs/service calls, unless I’m in the area or it’s good customer(but good/repeat customers, are just happy to get the job done quickly and properly). In home Estimates are not worth your time for a few hundred dollars.
> 
> I never charge by the hour because I work fast, and I’d never make money.
> My min charge for service calls is $120 and in Condos it’s $150(for the hassle of parking signing in, waiting for elevators and buzzing security to get thru doors etc.).
> ...



Maybe it's my area and I have it bad. I tried that for a while saying an aprox price on the phone for simple fixes lets say 165$ to 250$ but I soon found out people would hold me hostage to that low number and then they would say you didn't mention parts cost money or say taxes should be included yadi yada. Then a lot of them think you will fix the leak, replace all the faucets while I should supply it in the 120$ example. Maybe it's the immigrants who were like that, it's a little hazy in my memory. Anyway I don't work for them anymore with my current hourly rate.

I have that book, it was the first of many that I got. It was a good start.

This week I got 3-4 people wanting to do bathroom remodels and if I could start now. Not a single person was to pay for me for an estimate. They all wanted a price sight unseen for a complete gut!!


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> Maybe it's my area and I have it bad. I tried that for a while saying an aprox price on the phone for simple fixes lets say 165$ to 250$ but I soon found out people would hold me hostage to that low number and then they would say you didn't mention parts cost money or say taxes should be included yadi yada. Then a lot of them think you will fix the leak, replace all the faucets while I should supply it in the 120$ example. Maybe it's the immigrants who were like that, it's a little hazy in my memory. Anyway I don't work for them anymore with my current hourly rate.
> 
> I have that book, it was the first of many that I got. It was a good start.
> 
> This week I got 3-4 people wanting to do bathroom remodels and if I could start now. Not a single person was to pay for me for an estimate. They all wanted a price sight unseen for a complete gut!!


$5,000 ROUGH ONLY. No finish labor or materials included. 
(I don't know what your rate is, but for me that's a lot of labor for a single bathroom)

If you want to pay me for an estimate, I could probably come down in price.

:vs_cool:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> Maybe it's my area and I have it bad. I tried that for a while saying an aprox price on the phone for simple fixes lets say 165$ to 250$ but I soon found out people would hold me hostage to that low number and then they would say you didn't mention parts cost money or say taxes should be included yadi yada. Then a lot of them think you will fix the leak, replace all the faucets while I should supply it in the 120$ example. Maybe it's the immigrants who were like that, it's a little hazy in my memory. Anyway I don't work for them anymore with my current hourly rate.
> 
> I have that book, it was the first of many that I got. It was a good start.
> 
> This week I got 3-4 people wanting to do bathroom remodels and if I could start now. Not a single person was to pay for me for an estimate. They all wanted a price sight unseen for a complete gut!!



welllll, depending on where you are in your business you tell the customer the price you need to make a profit, the customer doesnt dictate what you charge unless you absolutely need the money, but that sets a BAD precedence for future work with those people or anyone those people recommend, I charge what I need to make a good profit, with that said it seems people can stomach add ons such as tool fees and such..its like buying a tire for your truck..the price of the tire does not include, mounting and balancing, tire disposal fee and taxes , so in the end the price of the tire is much more, you can do the same for plumbing pricing, all my work is by the job none by the hour.. but buying tools and equipment is part of your business and should be built into your pricing, do you charge for the truck you bought as a truck fee?..depending on the people they can be turned off by fees that they think shouldnt be charged..as far as a firm price by law..NO not unless its a signed contract that you priced up..an estimate is just that an estimate not a firm total and final price, sometimes you have to be stern with customers and be ready to tell them to get someone else you dont work for a loss, as you grow your business and have steady work you can weed out the cheapo people that you will never see again after you give them a cheap price, I cant tell you how many contractors use the old, im building 20 houses if you give me a great price on the first one you will get them all, my response is great lets put that in writing and ill have my attorney look it over and if you breach contract I can sue you for all the houses and difference in price on the first one, I never had any takers on that..


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

*A page from my seminar*

ON THE TOPIC CHARGING TOOLS
*Purchase of specialized tools, are they overhead? *​ *Let me ask a question, do you use these specialized tools for all customers? *​ *If they are not used for all customers, they are not O/H *​ ​ *If they are not, classed as overhead how do we get paid or recover our cost? Well we talked **about *
*depreciation – and what follows would be a form of depreciation. *

*Suppose our work requires a lot of interior concrete core drilling, saw cutting and some jack hammer work. So **we *
*go out and buy a core drill and some bits. Let’s say the drill motor and stand, vacuum pad and pump cost **$2,000.00 *
*including tax. We opt to purchase a hydraulic power unit, a cart mounted concrete saw, and a hydraulic jack *
*Hammer and feed and return hydraulic hoses. Total for this tool was $3,500.00 and $3,000.00 for the saw and *
*jackhammer. In addition we bought 1-6” 1-4” and 1-3” core drill and for the saw we bought a good 14” diamond *
*blade. Now we are going to give everything a life. The tools life will be in jobs used. For the purposes of *
*this course lets say that the core drill machine will last for 50 jobs. And the hydraulic unit will last for 50 jobs. *
*Now we do the math … Core drill gets charged out at $40.00 dollars cost per use [2000/50]. The saw does not **work *
*without the hydraulic power unit, so $70.00 [3500/50] cost charged for the power unit – saw and jack hammer **goes *
*out for $60.00 … Now the blades lets assume that the 6” core drill has a life of 288 inches and cost 435.00 *
*[435/288] = 1.51 per inch drilled. The saw has a cutting life of 120 feet 4” deep and cost 380.00 -- 380.00/120 = *
*3.16 per lineal feet cut. At this point in our calculations, if this tool would have a lot of consumables or be a high *
*maintenance item, then we should add in something for repairs. Now these charges over the life of the tool and **the *
*diamond use on the drill bits & saw blade will return your cost. And cost is what it is, so you want to include it in *
*direct cost on a job. And what happens to direct cost? We make profit on it. Now don’t forget we still have labor *
*and O/H to use these tools. Here is another case where O/H on labor hours is best. These charges can get *
*pretty salty when the formula includes overhead percent. If these tools last longer that the life you gave them **then *
*you put money in the bank because you keep charging for them. **Does anything go to overhead? Well unless you **had *
*a lot of excess cash you probably had to borrow the money to buy, so the interest on the loan would go to O/H. **Of *
*course if you only needed these tools for a couple of jobs why even buy them? Rent them and charge the **customer *
*the rental under direct costs for the job. *


* 44 *


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> welllll, depending on where you are in your business you tell the customer the price you need to make a profit, the customer doesnt dictate what you charge unless you absolutely need the money, but that sets a BAD precedence for future work with those people or anyone those people recommend, I charge what I need to make a good profit, with that said it seems people can stomach add ons such as tool fees and such..its like buying a tire for your truck..the price of the tire does not include, mounting and balancing, tire disposal fee and taxes , so in the end the price of the tire is much more, you can do the same for plumbing pricing, all my work is by the job none by the hour.. but buying tools and equipment is part of your business and should be built into your pricing, do you charge for the truck you bought as a truck fee?..depending on the people they can be turned off by fees that they think shouldnt be charged..as far as a firm price by law..NO not unless its a signed contract that you priced up..an estimate is just that an estimate not a firm total and final price, sometimes you have to be stern with customers and be ready to tell them to get someone else you dont work for a loss, as you grow your business and have steady work you can weed out the cheapo people that you will never see again after you give them a cheap price, I cant tell you how many contractors use the old, im building 20 houses if you give me a great price on the first one you will get them all, my response is great lets put that in writing and ill have my attorney look it over and if you breach contract I can sue you for all the houses and difference in price on the first one, I never had any takers on that..



I can't find the post where I was talking about it but here's the civil code. 

_2107. Where the price of the work or services is estimated at the time the contract is entered into, the contractor or the provider of the services shall justify any increase of the price.
The client is bound to pay such increase only to the extent that it results from work, services or expenses that the contractor or the provider of services could not have foreseen at the time the contract was entered into._


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> ]Let me ask a question, do you use these specialized tools for all customers? [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/CENTER]
> *If they are not used for all customers, they are not O/H *​




I get what you are talking about. In regards to the quoted text I ask this of you.

How about my wrench/hammer/torch? 

I don't use every tool on every job so where does a guy draw the line on what tools are O/H and what tools are specialty tools worthy of a tool fee?

How about my Moen cartridge puller tool? That is not even used on most jobs but only rarely used yet not really an expensive tool. So being specialty tool but not expensive and have a lot of used out of it should there be for example a $1 tool fee for that?

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

At the moment I charge 85$ for use of the k-3800. It will be paid in about 60 uses.
I charge if I have to use the small chipper, that thing cost me 800$

All the other special tools I don't charge but maybe I should like the jet sweat.

I do charge 10$ if I use a diamond drill bit, they cost 25$+ each


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> At the moment I charge 85$ for use of the k-3800. It will be paid in about 60 uses.


$85 and 60 used should be paid for times 4 is there something I'm missing or how does that math work out?

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> $85 and 60 used should be paid for times 4 is there something I'm missing or how does that math work out?
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk



Oops, my mistake. 47 uses at 85$ each = 4000$. 

This includes the machine, cables, drums, bits, guide tube, shipping fees, duty fees, paypal fees, exchange rate fees, 3% CC currency exchange fee, etc.

I've used it maybe 8-10 times since I got it. Many many years to go!


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> Oops, my mistake. 47 uses at 85$ each = 4000$.
> 
> This includes the machine, cables, drums, bits, guide tube, shipping fees, duty fees, paypal fees, exchange rate fees, 3% CC currency exchange fee, etc.
> 
> I've used it maybe 8-10 times since I got it. Many many years to go!


Wow 4k I just googled it and it says 1100$ so with some extra it's more but 4k sounds very high.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> Wow 4k I just googled it and it says 1100$ so with some extra it's more but 4k sounds very high.
> 
> Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


Yep that's the price we have to pay to get tools up here. At the time the exchange rate was between 25 to 30%, like I said it's not just the machine price. I also have the autofeed which was around 800$ alone.


Here's some proof of what you'd expect to pay in Canada. Remember not many sellers ship to Canada and ebay was the cheapest place. My local Ferguson was 400$ more than ebay. Oh also ebay is the only one to do their own duty/import, going through UPS you can expect 400+$ in duty fees.


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