# In case anyone is wondering how to install a Rinnai tankless... Pay attention..



## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

This is how NOT to do it...
Concentric vent piped in to flue 

























A cut section of a 4x3 reducer 

























Hooked up to low pressure gas. Customer was complaining of no hot water. It was installed by a local plumber a few months ago. Unbelievable..:blink:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Hey it was the first one I ever saw...
Real men don't read instructions...

Why are you taking pictures of my work...:laughing:


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Redwood... Keep your arse up in the greater northeast.. :laughing:


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

1950.00 and 3 hours later ....


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Nice job.

You are allowed to turn the vent directly out of the top?

I've always been forced to go straight up for two feet before I could put a bend on it or it would get failed.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I know it is against ipc code but it's the way most are done around here. I've never been turned down.


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

Still looks better than that crap-tastic tankless good job.


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## evan (Dec 10, 2010)

dont forget your contractor rewards!!


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

evan said:


> dont forget your contractor rewards!!


Is that worth messing with?


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## Fullmetal Frank (Jul 11, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> Is that worth messing with?


Yes, if you don't want them send them to me I am saving for a kayak.

Edit: dam, if you pic was more clear I could collect your points out from under you, Bawahahaha!


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

what did you do with the tankless


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

GREENPLUM said:


> what did you do with the tankless


Unfortunately the customer wanted to keep it... It was only a few months old.. 

I was hoping I would get to keep it for that 10lb chunk-o-copper heat exchanger:thumbup:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

why didnt yall find a way to vent the tankless right?

seems like a waste


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

GREENPLUM said:


> why didnt yall find a way to vent the tankless right?
> 
> seems like a waste



It would've needed 2 psi gas and the vent run properly. The mech room was surrounded by finished rooms except for 1 side. The 1 exterior wall had a 20' deck on the other side. It would've been more expensive to have it properly installed and the customer wanted it out.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> It would've needed 2 psi gas and the vent run properly. The mech room was surrounded by finished rooms except for 1 side. The 1 exterior wall had a 20' deck on the other side. It would've been more expensive to have it properly installed and the customer wanted it out.


Well then why didn't you just install an indirect hwt instead


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Well then why didn't you just install an indirect hwt instead


Never thought of that. I've never done one before but I'd like to learn how..


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Well then why didn't you just install an indirect hwt instead


Cool idea.. I never thought of that. I've never done one before but I'd like to learn how..


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I though I saw a boiler in that picture ... You could have made the indirect a zone using a controller with domestic priority


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

It was a small burnam.. Do you think there would be any issues with the increased demand?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> It was a small burnam.. Do you think there would be any issues with the increased demand?


I am sure the boiler is oversized. 

Why not run a larger gas line?


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

The meter was on the other side of the house.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> It was a small burnam.. Do you think there would be any issues with the increased demand?


Thats the thing with using controller with domestic priority .. All boiler energy goes to the hwt ... Heating is turned of until satisfied


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Would this be more energy efficient for the customer?


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

That would be why you attend the training put on by the reps.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> Would this be more energy efficient for the customer?


Only if you wanna run the boiler all summer................


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Well then why didn't you just install an indirect hwt instead


If I were to install this system how would it benefit the customer over the current system?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> If I were to install this system how would it benefit the customer over the current system?


For one thing the tank would last longer ...

The tank could also be a smaller size as the btu is much higher on the boiler than the hwt ...

They would have faster recovery than a normal hwt


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> If I were to install this system how would it benefit the customer over the current system?


For starters they last a whole lot longer. During the cooler months they may be getting free hot water as compared to the water heater since it is running already. Less components to go bad later. 

Just a few off the cuff.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I take too long to type.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I put a 40 gal boilermate indirect water heater, at out cottage up north. 20 yrs old, & still going strong. we got 3 full baths up there, & never a problem with hot water, even when the whole family is up there.
The Taco zone control box makes for easy wiring of zone valves, & priority zone, for water heater. Got a nice digital read out in front.
But they are expensive, & you gotta mess with piping & wiring on boiler, but they are awesome. :yes:


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Any good hydronics books you would recommend?? I've been interested in hydronics for a while, just not any way for me to learn it on the job.


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

Why not have the local utility put a high pressure meter (2#) in and chuck 2#--> 7-11" regs on all appliances? Up here (fortis) will do it for free. As for venting, how about centrotherm flexible right up the chimney? Hope the HO doesnt read this post :whistling2:


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Just saw this post*

Be careful of the thermal expansion tank being mounted that way. It looks like an ST-12? If it ever gets water logged it will weigh 45 pounds. That's an accident waiting to happen. I mount all mine to the wall. Much safer.

Jeff


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

PH5. 2 gallon. But I hear what your saying.


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*Obviously*

a lot less weight. But I even mount those to the wall.

This is a 12 though. Don't think I have a pic of a 5. Same style bracket though.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> a lot less weight. But I even mount those to the wall.
> 
> This is a 12 though. Don't think I have a pic of a 5. Same style bracket though.


Where can I get those brackets? I hate the way I install exp tanks (hung from the ceiling with a ceiling plate, rod and ring hanger).


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

PiedmontRadiant said:


> a lot less weight. But I even mount those to the wall.
> 
> This is a 12 though. Don't think I have a pic of a 5. Same style bracket though.





I'd also like to start using those brackets. Are they made for expansion tanks?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

futz said:


> Where can I get those brackets? I hate the way I install exp tanks (hung from the ceiling with a ceiling plate, rod and ring hanger).


http://www.holdrite.com/document_library/brochure/HR_QS5-QS12Datav2.pdf

http://www.pexsupply.com/Storm-King...w-11-HydroClaw-Expansion-Tank-Support-Bracket


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> http://www.holdrite.com/document_library/brochure/HR_QS5-QS12Datav2.pdf
> 
> http://www.pexsupply.com/Storm-King...w-11-HydroClaw-Expansion-Tank-Support-Bracket


Awesome! Thanks plbgbiz. My supplier deals with HoldRite - I use their HWT straps. If they don't already have those in stock I'll get them to order some in. Even if they cost me $30 each they'll save me that much in headaches and labor putting up blocks and stuff to do the ceiling hanger.


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## PiedmontRadiant (Jul 27, 2012)

*I just get them direct.*

I get them by boxes of 8 cause I use so many. They are made specifically for expansion tanks. and fit both thermal and hydronic tanks.

Just ask them for more detail

Contact them at [email protected]

Jeff


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

Fullmetal Frank said:


> Still looks better than that crap-tastic tankless good job.


Looks good . Is 2" flue allowed where u r and no seismic. I always offer seismic with all my tank installs. I cut a piece of channel/unistrut 26" and put two inserts into ground and use ready rod and 1/2" black iron pipe as a stiffener. Run the rod up and bolt it to the channel running across the top of unit with nuts and washers. It usually turns on the inspector.when I really get o.c.d. I will bolt ready rod to the wall and run the same application however sandwich tank with two pieces of channel with nuts and bolts


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Fast fry said:


> Looks good . Is 2" flue allowed where u r and no seismic. I always offer seismic with all my tank installs. I cut a piece of channel/unistrut 26" and put two inserts into ground and use ready rod and 1/2" black iron pipe as a stiffener. Run the rod up and bolt it to the channel running across the top of unit with nuts and washers. It usually turns on the inspector.when I really get o.c.d. I will bolt ready rod to the wall and run the same application however sandwich tank with two pieces of channel with nuts and bolts


How about retyping that do we can understand


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Hang on .. I don't undetstand what I wrote ... Lol


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Hang on .. I don't undetstand what I wrote ... Lol


What is there to know. The way I see plumbers turning out now adays it seems to me their schooling is like this

Here are your channel locks 
Here are your shark bites
And here is your ticket
Now be on your way:no:

Just like the sticker says inside the van os

I can explain it to you , but I can not understand it for you


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Install looks real nice good job. Noticed the copper gas supply. Something we cant do here. they use to, but when you pull the copper off the valve connection it would be full of flakes from the pipe


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Fast fry said:


> What is there to know. The way I see plumbers turning out now adays it seems to me their schooling is like this
> 
> Here are your channel locks
> Here are your shark bites
> ...


I thought I was confused until I read your post ... Now I am really confused


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

Sorry os . I like to razzel the old guys. Plus I honestly had maybe 2 or 3 afternoons off this whole year . I am frazzled and on call to take wife to delivery room tonight for my first child.i have a date with the jack hammer tomorrow morning at 7 am.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

You'd better put off that jack hammer if that baby comes.


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## bobtheplummer (Sep 29, 2012)

I wish I lived where most of you guys do... If I charged as much for a water heater in Baltimore the phone would never, ever ring .......


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Plumberman911 said:


> Install looks real nice good job. Noticed the copper gas supply. Something we cant do here. they use to, but when you pull the copper off the valve connection it would be full of flakes from the pipe




I heard a lot of you guys say this and I have yet to experience that. Copper is used here for tons of gas lines to heaters, especially on 2 psi systems.


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

We use,1/4 pound gas pressure 7" WC all in black pipe or galvanized with 2 psi you probally never see4" gavinized meter headers . When given elevated gas pressure for comm. jobs that require 1 or 2 psi,pipe size shrinks to nothing in comparison we like those . The venting on the heater removed was atrocious but the heater itself for right situation was better than the new one . Nice install though


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I heard a lot of you guys say this and I have yet to experience that. Copper is used here for tons of gas lines to heaters, especially on 2 psi systems.


The hydrogen sulfide count is to high here for copper. Can't be over 0.3 grains per 100 cubic feet.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Interesting for sure. Never seen it.


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