# Yea I Got It Wirsbo/Uponor Is The Best...



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I hear it all the time from the Wirsbo/Uponor users on the forum and the Uponor marketing guys....

I'm just wondering why you would install a sillcock like this....:whistling2:










Face it the sillcock isn't going to last forever, especially when the homeowner forgets to disconnect the hose over the winter... :yes:

You did a beautiful job of sweating the PEX adapter onto the sillcock and running the PEX without an inch of slack to be found....

So here I come to replace the sillcock after it froze splitting the tube and blowing the end off the sillcock...

Not much I can do except bassturdize your Worlds Finest Wirsbo/Uponor Pex installation buy cutting it a couple of feet back crimping in a new piece of PEX with a 1/2" PEX X 1/2" PEX Coupling then crimp in a 1/2" PEX X 1/2" Female NPT Adapter...



















Nice! They end up with 2 extra connections in the line that wouldn't have been needed if you didn't save $3.50 on the original job by thinking of the guy behind you.... :whistling2:

Yep! That's the best alright.... Your install just guaranteed that it would be bassturdized.... :thumbup:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Was there no why to set a block and use a wing eared adapt for future ease of removal and installation?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I suppose I could have, but either way the initial install was a set up for extra joints by sweating it on the sillcock...

I wasn't looking to make a career out of a repair being made by hanging through a basement window as far as I could reach... :laughing:

I'm not too worried about the sillcock maintaining pitch the old house has a timber sill that is 4" thick and the hole is tight so it's not moving....


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Whenever possible I put a drop ear 90. A lot of the times the new const plbr will just sweat that frost proof...Thanks for the extra bidneez.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I hear it all the time from the Wirsbo/Uponor users on the forum and the Uponor marketing guys....
> 
> I'm just wondering why you would install a sillcock like this....:whistling2:
> 
> ...


Sounds like a Bibb failure, not a pex failure.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Sounds like a Bibb failure, not a pex failure.


Absolutely Right... It had frozen from not having the hose removed...

But for all it's worth listening to the Wirsbo/Uponor guys talk up about how its the best stuff since sliced bread and how that gawd awful crimp Pex should never be combined with their fine work...

I just figured I'd say their installation technique is lacking and setting up that very situation to happen....:whistling2:

But hey they saved $3.50 on the installation....:thumbup:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I suppose I could have, but either way the initial install was a set up for extra joints by sweating it on the sillcock...
> 
> I wasn't looking to make a career out of a repair being made by hanging through a basement window as far as I could reach... :laughing:
> 
> I'm not too worried about the sillcock maintaining pitch the old house has a timber sill that is 4" thick and the hole is tight so it's not moving....


So you replaced it with a 1/4 turn HB with a known high failure rate.

Smooth move.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Absolutely Right... It had frozen from not having the hose removed...
> 
> But for all it's worth listening to the Wirsbo/Uponor guys talk up about how its the best stuff since sliced bread and how that gawd awful crimp Pex should never be combined with their fine work...
> 
> ...


 Still sounds like a bibb failure, as opposed to a tubing or connection failure.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> So you replaced it with a 1/4 turn HB with a known high failure rate.
> 
> Smooth move.


Nope! Customer supplied Watts FHB which is not a 1/4 turn...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Absolutely Right... It had frozen from not having the hose removed...





Widdershins said:


> Still sounds like a bibb failure, as opposed to a tubing or connection failure.


:blink:

*Absolutely Right... It had frozen from not having the hose removed...* :laughing:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Nope! Customer supplied Watts FHB which is not a 1/4 turn...


 Looks like an aftermarket 1/4 turn Legend sold at Lowes.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> :blink:
> 
> *Absolutely Right... It had frozen from not having the hose removed...* :laughing:


So, exactly what is your complaint?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

It's been said twice in post 1 & post 6..... :laughing:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> It's been said twice in post 1 & post 6..... :laughing:


 I was mixing a drink and missed that.

Uponor is actually compatible with most crimping systems.

Still, somebody got lazy and didn't install it with a drop-eared fitting.

Lazy basturd.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I was mixing a drink and missed that.
> 
> Uponor is actually compatible with most crimping systems.
> 
> ...


Zackly the initial job being a PEX Adapter sweated on the sillcock vs a drop ear or even a female npt adapter was just lazy as hell but I see it all the time....

Figured I'd just mention it for the benefit of those Wirsbo/Uponor purists.... :laughing:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Zackly the initial job being a PEX Adapter sweated on the sillcock vs a drop ear or even a female npt adapter was just lazy as hell but I see it all the time....
> 
> Figured I'd just mention it for the benefit of those Wirsbo/Uponor purists.... :laughing:


 I get what you're saying about the shoddy installation.

Still, your gripe should be about the installation practice, not the product.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> I get what you're saying about the shoddy installation.
> 
> Still, your gripe should be about the installation practice, not the product.


Right! Isn't that what I was griping about? :laughing:

Time for another 4 fingers of Chivas?


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

yes, you were set up to use a coupling and some other fittings.

doesn't look like it took much effort or time to replace 

the original install was threadless, you added threads into the mix


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Right! Isn't that what I was griping about? :laughing:


 Well, sadly, you mentioned the name of a specific product/manufacturer whilst ranting.



> Time for another 4 fingers of Chivas?


 Ew.

I want nothing to do with it if it the corn content isn't over 85%.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> yes, you were set up to use a coupling and some other fittings.
> 
> doesn't look like it took much effort or time to replace
> 
> the original install was threadless, you added threads into the mix


 It's still unfastened -- So what difference does it make?


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

It's no different than people soldiering the hose bib on to make it harder for the DIY. These days with sharkbites it's kinda pointless though, even a HO can make short work of it copper or PEX.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*shark bite couplings work good*

the only way I would fool with that is with my own
woodford sillcock... putting in the homeowners junk is always a future warranty issue and trouble..

I dont care for those ss crimp fittings adapted to wirsbo, then turned to blue pex, then adapted back to the hose bib... but you got to do what you got to do..

we usually just solder a foot or two of copper on the woodford hose bib and use a 1/2 sharkbite coupling to adapt the copper pipe to the wirsbo...

throw a little silicone in the hose bib hole to seal it up good in place, then screw it to the outside wall , and it seems to work very well


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> the only way I would fool with that is with my own
> woodford sillcock... putting in the homeowners junk is always a future warranty issue and trouble..


Warranty Issue? :laughing:
Are you kidding me? :blink:
You warranty homeowner supplied junk? :no::no::no:

I sure don't! In fact I love to install what they supply....
It's money in the bag!
If the stuff is junk enough sometimes they even pay twice on the original installation when it turns out to be defective.... :thumbup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumber Jim said:


> *It's no different than people soldering the hose bib on to make it harder for the DIY. These days with sharkbites it's kinda pointless though, even a HO can make short work of it copper or PEX.*


That's exactly it Jim...
If this guy wanted to DIY it he would have...

I'm just saying for all the squawking I hear about a brand being the best and blah blah blah....

It doesn't really mean jack when your work technique guarantee's that the next guy is going to be cutting and adding on to your work to replace an item that you know will fail and be replaced at some point...

Setting a block and a drop ear 90 while he was in there on the original installation would have been nothing...
Of course after the duct work has been installed and turned this into a lean through the basement window type job, we'll settle for a female adapter...
Redwood only goes just so far into a 12" X 18" opening... :laughing:

If you really believe that what you are putting in is so much better than everything else, (it's not and it's just a bunch of marketing that you are regurgitating) then why not install it so your stuff remains intact?:whistling2:

Just my $0.02...


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

slap a shark bite on it :whistling2:


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

This is how I do mine Red. I leave a loop in the line to allow it to be pulled out from the outside. I put a wirsbo x mip adaptor, and I use a woodford 19P with fip threads. Works great for repair or replace. This one was just roughed in. The siding guys hadn't got that far yet, so I stubbed out a line and installed the faucet after the siding went up.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

LEAD INGOT said:


> This is how I do mine Red. I leave a loop in the line to allow it to be pulled out from the outside. I put a wirsbo x mip adaptor, and I use a woodford 19P with fip threads. Works great for repair or replace. This one was just roughed in. The siding guys hadn't got that far yet, so I stubbed out a line and installed the faucet after the siding went up.


That's what I'm Talking About! :thumbup:










That is clearly a superior installation!


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

LEAD INGOT said:


> This is how I do mine Red. I leave a loop in the line to allow it to be pulled out from the outside. I put a wirsbo x mip adaptor, and I use a woodford 19P with fip threads. Works great for repair or replace. This one was just roughed in. The siding guys hadn't got that far yet, so I stubbed out a line and installed the faucet after the siding went up.


 That's brilliant.

I'm going to have to steal that.:laughing:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Pex is a good. :thumbup:


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

LEAD INGOT said:


> This is how I do mine Red. I leave a loop in the line to allow it to be pulled out from the outside. I put a wirsbo x mip adaptor, and I use a woodford 19P with fip threads. Works great for repair or replace. This one was just roughed in. The siding guys hadn't got that far yet, so I stubbed out a line and installed the faucet after the siding went up.


I like that.

My only question is...... how is the plumber that has to change that sillcock gonna know that loop is in there? taking the sillcock loose and pulling on it is the only way that I can see and I am not a fan of doing that unless I know what's back there.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Colgar said:


> I like that.
> 
> My only question is...... how is the plumber that has to change that sillcock gonna know that loop is in there? taking the sillcock loose and pulling on it is the only way that I can see and I am not a fan of doing that unless I know what's back there.


 I'll know it's there. So it will only help me and my customers right now. The old way of doing it was, get referance points for measurement. Cut a hole in the drywall and replace. Maybe I could have a little instructional plaquard made up for them that would slip behind the hydrant. I actually had a customer this summer that had left a hose on during the winter and had burst it. It was a house that I did. She wasn't home and I was able to change it live, without getting into the house. 10 min for a one hour service call. And I didn't even have to break out the shoe covers.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

One thing I'll never understand "why" people like running pex when you're forcing back into the threaded fitting equation.


I can open up a wall and replace a hose bibb by sweating one out, sweating one in, deep inside a wall.


You won't be that lucky when you have to thread a connection onto the end of that hose bibb, ever. You'll have to open that wall, even possibly remove a stud to wrench it on.


Even if you want to cheat with a 1/2" by 1/2" FIP sharkbite, you're depending on a threaded connection not to leak.


And they leak, I see them all the time, as recent as yesterday morning on a water heater.



I ran pex a couple weeks ago on a bypass for an outside faucet, took us all of 10 minutes and three sharkbites. Talk about a devalue of the trade...

It was at a gas station in the back area where the kitchen was. Not my cup of tea. We could of coppered it in but the customer was determined to do it cheapest, knowing how all the piping in his soda machines are of the same kind, along with water feeds for the coffee machines.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

LEAD INGOT said:


> I'll know it's there. So it will only help me and my customers right now. The old way of doing it was, get referance points for measurement. Cut a hole in the drywall and replace. Maybe I could have a little instructional plaquard made up for them that would slip behind the hydrant. I actually had a customer this summer that had left a hose on during the winter and had burst it. It was a house that I did. She wasn't home and I was able to change it live, without getting into the house. 10 min for a one hour service call. And I didn't even have to break out the shoe covers.


Don't they weather proof the hole there? I usually spend 10 min hammering out cement or at least cutting out foam. I haven't seen one screwed in for awhile. You system would be great for all the DIYers here that usually break some copper fitting in the wall trying to unscrew the sillcock.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> Don't they weather proof the hole there? I usually spend 10 min hammering out cement or at least cutting out foam. I haven't seen one screwed in for awhile. You system would be great for all the DIYers here that usually break some copper fitting in the wall trying to unscrew the sillcock.


 I install a pvc sleeve, and as I install the hydrant I fill the void with fiberglass insulation and cap it off with a 7/8" od isolator. The plate from the woodford covers the isolator and it is sealed from the elements. Nice thing about wirsbo, they can spin it all thay want, it'll just keep turning and turning. If they break something because they didn't know what they were doing, then I say HO mistake and more work for us. But I also know what my limitations are, and know when to conceed and call in a pro. Something about homeownership that makes some people real proud.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> slap a shark bite on it :whistling2:


We went to a job that the client had remodeled about a year ago. The so called plumber used a sharkbite on a tub spout....have you ever tried to take a tub spout off when it has been put on with a sharkbite?

No only that they tried to adapt Delta Oil Rubbed Bronze trim to Delta 600 and a Moen.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Plumber Jim said:


> It's no different than people soldiering the hose bib on to make it harder for the DIY.


I don't know if it was just around here, but back in the 50'-60' some of the plumbers didn't believe in pipe dope for water they would solder male adapters on faucets and the unions a on tub faucets. Not only did that make it harder for the DIY but the next plumber that came along.


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## sikxsevn (Jun 23, 2009)

Associated Plum said:


> We went to a job that the client had remodeled about a year ago. The so called plumber used a sharkbite on a tub spout....have you ever tried to take a tub spout off when it has been put on with a sharkbite?



Sounds like a job for my hackzall


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Associated Plum said:


> I don't know if it was just around here, but back in the 50'-60' some of the plumbers didn't believe in pipe dope for water they would solder male adapters on faucets and the unions a on tub faucets. Not only did that make it harder for the DIY but the next plumber that came along.


 

I solder all FIPs used on the Delta R10000 valves when working inside a wall for a faucet changeout. Not going to take a chance with a threaded connection.


I also do this for the 25AUB34 Z3 for the threaded connection to the 3/4 MIP. 

If you've ever split one from overtightening you know how hand tightening, soldering up that connection is leak proof. And it doesn't stress that fitting that's prone to crack. Doesn't happen often, but it happens.


I wish they all sweated those union joints on the old 3 handles; very hard to get in there and fix those when the faucet has to stay in place. 

At some point or another, they always leak. Kohler today still forces you to use those behind the wall. Unfortunate indeed. I've got one up in my area that I despised the customer have me use. 

Fancy plumbing is all... over engineered.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

LEAD INGOT said:


> I install a pvc sleeve, and as I install the hydrant I fill the void with fiberglass insulation and cap it off with a 7/8" od isolator. The plate from the woodford covers the isolator and it is sealed from the elements. Nice thing about wirsbo, they can spin it all thay want, it'll just keep turning and turning. If they break something because they didn't know what they were doing, then I say HO mistake and more work for us. But I also know what my limitations are, and know when to conceed and call in a pro. Something about homeownership that makes some people real proud.


 I worked on one with a sleeve Friday, seems like the way to go. I don't have to much experience with frost proof hydrants, they just stubbed out copper in AZ. The loop looks brilliant, do you do the same type of thing when they are below the foundation or just figure your crawling?


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

LEAD INGOT said:


> This is how I do mine Red. I leave a loop in the line to allow it to be pulled out from the outside. I put a wirsbo x mip adaptor, and I use a woodford 19P with fip threads. Works great for repair or replace. This one was just roughed in. The siding guys hadn't got that far yet, so I stubbed out a line and installed the faucet after the siding went up.


 

Work looks professional but leaving pex in a loop like that is how pex gets kinked


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Mike Jessome said:


> Work looks professional but leaving pex in a loop like that is how pex gets kinked


How?


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

It don't freeze here, but we install a copper stub-out with a quarter turn AV hose bib. And I would like to know how pex could get kinked like that too


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> How?





Mississippiplum said:


> It don't freeze here, but we install a copper stub-out with a quarter turn AV hose bib. And I would like to know how pex could get kinked like that too


Pull it to far out. 

I like the pex loop idea, but rarely get the chance to do something like that. As for the system, I have not used Wirsbo since the first few months in the trade. 

Recently I bought a Zurn tool that has a nice cinch-clamp type ring. One tool for 3/8 - 1inch. Its real nice except I only know of one supplier for the rings, and they are not right in town.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> It's still unfastened -- So what difference does it make?


 
its screwed to the house, nice and tight


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Indie said:


> Pull it to far out.
> 
> I like the pex loop idea, but rarely get the chance to do something like that. As for the system, I have not used Wirsbo since the first few months in the trade.
> 
> Recently I bought a Zurn tool that has a nice cinch-clamp type ring. One tool for 3/8 - 1inch. Its real nice except I only know of one supplier for the rings, and they are not right in town.


I got the same crimp system I bought the crimpers and rings back when I was 13 I figured It wouldn't hurt to learn how to work with pex. I love that crimp system it's fast and reliable. I like it better then the copper rings (my bossman makes us use those), also with the zurn system one tool crimps all sizes.


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