# Drainig a waterheater



## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I just want see how u guys drain a water heater and see if your way is better. What I usualy do is wheelthem out ful if I can. If not and the heater is not leaking and won't drain I connec my comresor on cold ap the hot and air itup to drain. If it is leaking I get a ball valve with 3/4 nipple and do a fast switch on the drain fitting. If still clogged after I shoot air back into tank through water house till it drains


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

When I find a water heater that will not drain, I have cut off an end of a rubber washing machine hose and send it down the hot water side of the heater and connect my pump to it to drain.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

revenge said:


> ...I usualy do is wheelthem out ful if I can....


I save time on this step. I already know I can't (won't).


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

If they are draining slow, I wheel over to a sump pit or outside ad kick the drain off


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

You might try hooking you drain hose up and running it with pressure for a few minutes before cutting the water off. It seems to stir the sediment up enough to let it drain ok. I sometimes use a small transfer pump with a small female to female hose from the tank to the pump and the long hose out the door, if you do this remember to let all air in you can both flex line and then the t&p when you can I burnt a pump up when it pulled vacumme.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I usually just cut the water back on and let the water pressure blow it out


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

I got a little zoeller pump I hook up the the boiler drain and discharge either to a drain or to the outside. It will drain a 50 gallon in about 10-15 min. Just enough time to set up the new heater...


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I use a waterbed pump.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

I use a Liberty pump 331,

*Model 331 *
*1/2 hp Portable Transfer Pump *

1/2 hp. 

This portable pump is perfect for boosting water pressure, draining hot water tanks and general water transfer. Features include a one-piece cast aluminum pump and motor housing with integral carry handle, permanently lubricated bearings, a convenient On/Off switch, and a powerful ½ hp motor capable of pumping to over 100 feet of head. Not intended for permanent installations.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

If they are too bad, I call Mr. D for help.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

revenge said:


> I just want see how u guys drain a water heater and see if your way is better. What I usualy do is wheelthem out ful if I can. If not and the heater is not leaking and won't drain I connec my comresor on cold ap the hot and air itup to drain. If it is leaking I get a ball valve with 3/4 nipple and do a fast switch on the drain fitting. If still clogged after I shoot air back into tank through water house till it drains


<snip>​ 
* A 1/2" PIECE OF PEX with a male hose adapter attached hooked to a Liberty Utility Pump using a wash machine hose and then pumping from the hot connetion works fine when the heater won't drain.*


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> I use a Liberty pump 331


:thumbup:

That's what I use too...

We have underground storage and mechanical room known as basements...
Carrying them out full is not an option....


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Bill said:


> I usually just cut the water back on and let the water pressure blow it out


I don't even try to drain them without doing this. Hook up the hose, open the drain, then turn off the water.

If it's an electric in the garage, and I can cart it out easily, I'll take it out full and knock the boiler drain off with a hammer. Drains in about 1 minute.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

When we are doing a flat rate job, we use the Liberty Pump too. :thumbup: Actually got that one because someone on PZ recommended it a few years back.

If we are doing it T & M, we prefer to shoot the breeze with the H.O. while waiting for the water heater to drain. All the while shaking our heads and mumbling "this is a tough one. Never had one drain this slow. Do you want me to look at anything else while we are waiting for gravity to do it's job?"


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> When we are doing a flat rate job, we use the Liberty Pump too. :thumbup: *Actually got that one because someone on PZ recommended it a few years back.*


I wonder who that was... :laughing:
That little pump is the cat's azz.... :thumbup:



PlumbCrazy said:


> If we are doing it T & M, we prefer to shoot the breeze with the H.O. while waiting for the water heater to drain. All the while shaking our heads and mumbling "this is a tough one. Never had one drain this slow. Do you want me to look at anything else while we are waiting for gravity to do it's job?"


Oh Boy here we go with the flat rate vs. t&m again....
I thought we solved that one in another thread.... :whistling2:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Redwood said:


> flat rate vs. t&m again....


The gift that keeps on giving. :laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*how ahs that done for you???*

I have burnt out 3 of those ZOELLER pumps, the impeller just gets ground out after a while or you get some very nasty sand and lime eat one out....

does this one clog up much with lime and sediment, and can it be taken apart and cleaned out easily??? What did the last one cost you$$

thank you for the info , cause I am in need of one right now...


I can take out a 40 gallon heater full of water on a 800 lb dolley if I absolutely have to. acrossa flat surface.... a 30 is easy... 

it is wiser for your health and bck to try to get them at least half empty before attempting this 








GREENPLUM said:


> I use a Liberty pump 331,
> 
> *Model 331 *
> *1/2 hp Portable Transfer Pump *
> ...


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> When we are doing a flat rate job, we use the Liberty Pump too. :thumbup: Actually got that one because someone on PZ recommended it a few years back.
> 
> If we are doing it T & M, we prefer to shoot the breeze with the H.O. while waiting for the water heater to drain. All the while shaking our heads and mumbling "this is a tough one. Never had one drain this slow. Do you want me to look at anything else while we are waiting for gravity to do it's job?"


That's funny! Felt like stirring the pot this morning did we !


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Redwood said:


> I wonder who that was... :laughing:
> That little pump is the cat's azz.... :thumbup:
> 
> 
> ...


This will never be solved. It's become so boring that I scarcely read any thread anymore dealing with the subject.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

smellslike$tome said:


> That's funny! Felt like stirring the pot this morning did we !


 She's a rascally Lil' vixen.:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> *I have burnt out 3 of those ZOELLER pumps*, the impeller just gets ground out after a while or you get some very nasty sand and lime eat one out....


Ummmm Mark,

That's why I use and recommend the *"Liberty Pump"*

You've bought the wrong pump!:laughing:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

I think it's easier to justify new and better equipment when it allows you to turn a better profit by increasing efficiency. 

Yes Red the pump was a great investment! :thumbup:

You well know that doing so in the other scenario reduces your profit, increases your marketing expense, less sold hours, and depreciating equipment that has to be replaced (which is rarely covered in the labor rate).


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*thank you Mr. Obvious*



Redwood said:


> Ummmm Mark,
> 
> That's why I use and recommend the *"Liberty Pump"*
> 
> You've bought the wrong pump!:laughing:


 
thank you Mr. Obvious....:yes::yes:

we have had pretty good luck with the zoellers, they seem to last about 6 months before trouble starts...
doing about 3 a day is most likely the problem...

actually we had something very similar to one of those liberties waaay back in the 80s and we did not like it at that time cause it was a constant battle to keep the lime from clogging it up... 


I am gonna try one and see how long it takes me to screw it up...:yes::yes:

I see this one has a screen that will need constant cleaning. 
also it is not supposed to have water above 135 going through it....


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> thank you Mr. Obvious....:yes::yes:
> 
> we have had pretty good luck with the zoellers, they seem to last about 6 months before trouble starts...
> doing about 3 a day is most likely the problem...
> ...



Buy end caps and fill the impeller chamber with CLR when you put it away.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

plumb nutz said:


> I got a little zoeller pump I hook up the the boiler drain and discharge either to a drain or to the outside. It will drain a 50 gallon in about 10-15 min. Just enough time to set up the new heater...


I do the same, works so well. You can do a water heater swap in about an hour with the help of that pump!


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Michaelcookplum said:


> I do the same, works so well. You can do a water heater swap in about an hour with the help of that pump!


One hour wh change out? The only way is with shark bite flex connectors and no code required thermal expansion tank. In my opinion you are killing the industry by doing this.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

smellslike$tome said:


> One hour wh change out? The only way is with shark bite flex connectors and no code required thermal expansion tank. In my opinion you are killing the industry by doing this.


 
Why does it take you much longer than an hour. I do my WH's on flat rate but man, it doesn't take that long to change one. Cut the water cut the hard supplies, unhook the gas and slide the heater over. Then install the new one while the old one is draining. I can do it in copper with hard gas piping in an hour. This is why I flat rate heaters, I wouldn't make any money on an install.

Now I agree that it takes time to pick up/get rid of the heater but actual install time, should be about an hour. In fairness, an expansion tank is not required here unless you have a backflow preventer on the incoming water supply, which most homes dont. Even still an expansion tank would add less than a half hour to the install. I don't use flex connectors for WH's only hard copper sweat fittings.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I just siphon them out from the top if they don't drain from the bottom. 1/2" pex and sharkbites. Done.

Heck, on raised houses where they didn't install a vacuum breaker on the heater (99% here in hackville florida), I just siphon them out through a hose bib.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*I am guilty*



smellslike$tome said:


> One hour wh change out? The only way is with shark bite flex connectors and no code required thermal expansion tank. In my opinion you are killing the industry by doing this.


Its all about speed and efficiency
we can change them out in about an hour and a half

if I need a *shark bite ball valve* to save me an hour having
to drain down a two story house just . to solder on new stop ...... then so be it.......

but I use the black brass craft flex connectors and 
usually a yellow flex gas line....

they have saved me time and labor ..

I prefer the brass craft black flex connectors, they are basically like
 dialectric unions but 10 times better 

this same arguement went on back in the early 60s here for my father when 
Genova came out with PVC Sch 40 pipe ....and all the plumbers in the small towns 
around here were in an up-roar about having to switch over from Cast and copper ...

either you change, or go extinct..


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Protech said:


> I just siphon them out from the top if they don't drain from the bottom. 1/2" pex and sharkbites. Done.
> 
> Heck, on raised houses where they didn't install a vacuum breaker on the heater (99% here in hackville florida), I just siphon them out through a hose bib.


 Our code only requires vacuum breakers if the HW tank is located above the highest HW outlet, but I tend to put one on all new installs anyway.

I buy the Watts N-36.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Our code only requires vacuum breakers if the HW tank is located above the highest HW outlet, but I tend to put one on all new installs anyway.
> 
> I buy the Watts N-36.


So does ours. Difference is, our state does not actually enforce 1/2 of it's own codes.


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> I have burnt out 3 of those ZOELLER pumps, the impeller just gets ground out after a while or you get some very nasty sand and lime eat one out....
> 
> does this one clog up much with lime and sediment, and can it be taken apart and cleaned out easily??? What did the last one cost you$$
> 
> thank you for the info , cause I am in need of one right now...


The one I got was priced decently, but the exact cost, I do not know, The boss paid for it.

I've never burned one up, but have had to change the rubber impellor once and I've had it for 3 yrs. It hasn't blocked up too much and its simple to repair...


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## WaterBoy (Mar 4, 2010)

I was taught to put a compressor on the W/h. Usually drains it. If it gets clogged at the boiler drain, I just use a coat hanger to breakup the sediment or sometimes take the drain off with a shop vac.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> Why does it take you much longer than an hour. I do my WH's on flat rate but man, it doesn't take that long to change one. Cut the water cut the hard supplies, unhook the gas and slide the heater over. Then install the new one while the old one is draining. I can do it in copper with hard gas piping in an hour. This is why I flat rate heaters, I wouldn't make any money on an install.
> 
> Now I agree that it takes time to pick up/get rid of the heater but actual install time, should be about an hour. In fairness, an expansion tank is not required here unless you have a backflow preventer on the incoming water supply, which most homes dont. Even still an expansion tank would add less than a half hour to the install. I don't use flex connectors for WH's only hard copper sweat fittings.


Install time for me is from the time I put my truck in park until the time I drive off.

However, the actual act of changing it out is as follows: shut off water (usually at meter stop), hook up hose and start old heater draining, open t&p and additional hot outlets if needed, pull the new heater off of the truck and unbox, install di-electric unions on new water heater, turn off gas to old heater, disconnect brass union nut at gas connection, remove brass flare X mip union from old wh, remove screws anchoring draft hood to wh and set aside, remove screws anchoring exhaust vent to draft hood and set aside, remove draft hood, cut t&p relief line at convenient place, if necessary, allowing reuse if possible, remove t&p relief line from t&p valve, remove t&p and place in scrap bucket, cut cold inlet and hot outlet as close to wh as possible, install flare X mip brass union at gas inlet of new heater, old heater should be finished draining by this point. If in fact it is, remove, roll up, and put up hose. If drain valve is brass, remove and throw in scrap bucket. Remove old wh from stand. Remove copper adapters from old wh (if possible without great effort) and throw in scrap bucket. Set old wh aside. Set new wh on stand. Measure and cut pipe to be sweated onto brass swt half of dielectric unions. Usually, the hot side can receive the brass half of the union directly if you cut the connection to the old tank correctly to begin with. Clean and ream hot side. Remove union washer and place in safe place. Slide union nut and insulator up to first copper 90 and wedge temporarily out of the way. Flux brass union half and pipe, fit together, and solder hot side brass union half. If new isolation valve is to be used, either sweat old valve off or cut it out if it is too close to wh to allow installation of txt. Cut 4" piece of copper, clean, ream, and solder into brass union half for cold side. Place union nut and insulator onto brass half of union. Clean and install either 3/4 swt X 3/4 fip brass tee or 3/4 copper tee w/make up piece at horizontal and 3/4 fip adapter (I prefer the brass tee to prevent any chance of galvanic corrosion between piping and txt). Cut, clean, ream, and fit together piping between tee and new iso valve or pipe extending from old valve. Swt it all up. Connect di-electric union halves. CLEAN YOUR PIPE AND FITTINGS WITH A RAG AFTER SOLDERING IS COMPLETE! CLEAN THE TOP OF THE WH! ALL COPPER PIPE MUST BE PROPERLY CLEANED AND REAMED! ALL COPPER FITTINGS MUST BE WIRE BRUSHED EVEN IF THEY ARE BRAND NEW OUT OF THE BOX! Install new draft hood. Connect exhaust vent to draft hood making any necessary adjustments to length. Pressurize txt to whatever the existing house water pressure is. Install txt. Connect existing gas supply (if code approved) to wh. If there was previously no sediment trap and gas pressure test port associated with the wh, they must be installed. Existing gas stop must be code approved or replaced. Turn on water, fill tank, check for leaks. Turn on gas. Light wh. Put old wh on truck. Pick up and put up your tools. Clean up any mess.

I don't think I left anything out. I hope not.

Their is no person on the planet who can perform this procedure in 1 hour or less.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> One hour wh change out? The only way is with shark bite flex connectors and no code required thermal expansion tank. In my opinion you are killing the industry by doing this.


If the heater is in an easy accessible location, like a garage utility room or on the first floor and hour change out without flexes or sharkbites is very do able. 

I hard pipe every install I do, very rarely do I do small heaters any more, it's usually 80 gallons or higher these days. Those heaters take a lot of time to change out.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

2 1/2 hours is typical. I've had some installs take 4 - 5 hours in difficult circumstances.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

First thing I do is the same as Bill. Hook up the hose and let the water pressure try. If that doesn't work I'll spin the drain bib out and throw a ball valve in. If the drain bib is plastic, I'll sping the gas valve out and put the ball vavle in there. 







Paul


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> 2 1/2 hours is typical. I've had some installs take 4 - 5 hours in difficult circumstances.


6 hours on a 120 gallon power vent. Granted I did it solo.

I had help removing and setting but I had to re work intake and exhaust plus all the copper by my lonesome.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Back when I was 29 I could do a gas water heater changeout in 45 minutes, IF it was same size coming out. 30-40-50 conventional, no code violations.

But that was flat out gettin' it, almost rushing back and forth, cutting that heater loose and letting it drain out while fitting the new one in.

Amazing that I used to do almost 4-5 every day for a company in my late 20's. 

Something that'll never happen again. I almost slot half days for just one of them. :blink::laughing:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

If WH is at floor level: Turn off water to house/apt disconnect flex and gas lines. Take cardboard from new WH box and lay on floor, dolly old water heater outside and start draining. Clean up mess from leaking water heater and replace flex lines and install new fullport ball valve if they have a gate valve on supply of WH. Change gascock if old. Check draining water heater kick off draincock if needed, bring in new WH, put in gas drip leg (if required) and new flare fitting & T&P. Set WH attach new flex lines and flu, and bleed air. Hook up and leak test gas (where is that lighter) with new yellow line, bond if required. Start WH, go outside clean up and scrap old WH hopefully some scrapper will have asked for the tank by then if not load in truck. Clean up inside, water is warm by now, check for leaks and show cust WH is working let them know they can shower in 15min. One hour to 1.5


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## bluewater (Jul 14, 2011)

Me and my helper can do them in under and hr providing there is already an expanson tank there the way I cut time down is if the heater is in a place where you can roll it out on a hand truck without doing any damage to anything do it and remove the.drain plug out side if your unable to do that I remove the top element and use a small suction pump to remove the water or install a ball valve on the lower element anything you can do to get the old one out if the way fast also it helps to have a good helper by the time I have the old one cut loose he has the new one ready to go in with adpt on it ready for install


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

smellslike$tome said:


> Install time for me is from the time I put my truck in park until the time I drive off.
> 
> However, the actual act of changing it out is as follows: shut off water (usually at meter stop), hook up hose and start old heater draining, open t&p and additional hot outlets if needed, pull the new heater off of the truck and unbox, install di-electric unions on new water heater, turn off gas to old heater, disconnect brass union nut at gas connection, remove brass flare X mip union from old wh, remove screws anchoring draft hood to wh and set aside, remove screws anchoring exhaust vent to draft hood and set aside, remove draft hood, cut t&p relief line at convenient place, if necessary, allowing reuse if possible, remove t&p relief line from t&p valve, remove t&p and place in scrap bucket, cut cold inlet and hot outlet as close to wh as possible, install flare X mip brass union at gas inlet of new heater, old heater should be finished draining by this point. If in fact it is, remove, roll up, and put up hose. If drain valve is brass, remove and throw in scrap bucket. Remove old wh from stand. Remove copper adapters from old wh (if possible without great effort) and throw in scrap bucket. Set old wh aside. Set new wh on stand. Measure and cut pipe to be sweated onto brass swt half of dielectric unions. Usually, the hot side can receive the brass half of the union directly if you cut the connection to the old tank correctly to begin with. Clean and ream hot side. Remove union washer and place in safe place. Slide union nut and insulator up to first copper 90 and wedge temporarily out of the way. Flux brass union half and pipe, fit together, and solder hot side brass union half. If new isolation valve is to be used, either sweat old valve off or cut it out if it is too close to wh to allow installation of txt. Cut 4" piece of copper, clean, ream, and solder into brass union half for cold side. Place union nut and insulator onto brass half of union. Clean and install either 3/4 swt X 3/4 fip brass tee or 3/4 copper tee w/make up piece at horizontal and 3/4 fip adapter (I prefer the brass tee to prevent any chance of galvanic corrosion between piping and txt). Cut, clean, ream, and fit together piping between tee and new iso valve or pipe extending from old valve. Swt it all up. Connect di-electric union halves. CLEAN YOUR PIPE AND FITTINGS WITH A RAG AFTER SOLDERING IS COMPLETE! CLEAN THE TOP OF THE WH! ALL COPPER PIPE MUST BE PROPERLY CLEANED AND REAMED! ALL COPPER FITTINGS MUST BE WIRE BRUSHED EVEN IF THEY ARE BRAND NEW OUT OF THE BOX! Install new draft hood. Connect exhaust vent to draft hood making any necessary adjustments to length. Pressurize txt to whatever the existing house water pressure is. Install txt. Connect existing gas supply (if code approved) to wh. If there was previously no sediment trap and gas pressure test port associated with the wh, they must be installed. Existing gas stop must be code approved or replaced. Turn on water, fill tank, check for leaks. Turn on gas. Light wh. Put old wh on truck. Pick up and put up your tools. Clean up any mess.
> 
> ...


Brass on gas pipe? That's a no no. Black steel only here in va. We aren't requires to do hardly anything you do. Drain the heater with a pump, make up two female adapters, tighten them up on new heater, put in place and install new ballvalve. I always spray joints with water bottle and wipe down with a rag. Also unions are a no no. Solid joint everywhere. I use slip couplings if there's no room for movement.


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Brass on gas pipe? That's a no no. Black steel only here in va. We aren't requires to do hardly anything you do. Drain the heater with a pump, make up two female adapters, tighten them up on new heater, put in place and install new ballvalve. I always spray joints with water bottle and wipe down with a rag. Also unions are a no no. Solid joint everywhere. I use slip couplings if there's no room for movement.


Wait are you sweating the adapters onto the copper when they are already on the heater..?

Bty, black is not the only material that can be used in ol' VA


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Also unions are a no no. Solid joint everywhere. I use slip couplings if there's no room for movement.


 What?

You back it all the way out to the meter?

You install left/right couplings?

My bullshiot meter just pegged itself.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

We have to use left/right couplings on gas. Only place we can use unions is at the heater, or for exposed kitchen equipment. 
But in general its a no and can be a pain.

I think he was talking about the water though... Why are you spraying water joints? And whats wrong with unions on water at the heater?


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm guessing he is talking about spraying them to clean up the copper after soldering.

Me, that would make me freak out because I would forget I sprayed them after walking out to the truck and think I've got a leak. Lol


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I think he sbays them more for cooling them down to 'ork with


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

smellslike$tome said:


> Install time for me is from the time I put my truck in park until the time I drive off.
> 
> However, the actual act of changing it out is as follows: shut off water (usually at meter stop), hook up hose and start old heater draining, open t&p and additional hot outlets if needed, pull the new heater off of the truck and unbox, install di-electric unions on new water heater, turn off gas to old heater, disconnect brass union nut at gas connection, remove brass flare X mip union from old wh, remove screws anchoring draft hood to wh and set aside, remove screws anchoring exhaust vent to draft hood and set aside, remove draft hood, cut t&p relief line at convenient place, if necessary, allowing reuse if possible, remove t&p relief line from t&p valve, remove t&p and place in scrap bucket, cut cold inlet and hot outlet as close to wh as possible, install flare X mip brass union at gas inlet of new heater, old heater should be finished draining by this point. If in fact it is, remove, roll up, and put up hose. If drain valve is brass, remove and throw in scrap bucket. Remove old wh from stand. Remove copper adapters from old wh (if possible without great effort) and throw in scrap bucket. Set old wh aside. Set new wh on stand. Measure and cut pipe to be sweated onto brass swt half of dielectric unions. Usually, the hot side can receive the brass half of the union directly if you cut the connection to the old tank correctly to begin with. Clean and ream hot side. Remove union washer and place in safe place. Slide union nut and insulator up to first copper 90 and wedge temporarily out of the way. Flux brass union half and pipe, fit together, and solder hot side brass union half. If new isolation valve is to be used, either sweat old valve off or cut it out if it is too close to wh to allow installation of txt. Cut 4" piece of copper, clean, ream, and solder into brass union half for cold side. Place union nut and insulator onto brass half of union. Clean and install either 3/4 swt X 3/4 fip brass tee or 3/4 copper tee w/make up piece at horizontal and 3/4 fip adapter (I prefer the brass tee to prevent any chance of galvanic corrosion between piping and txt). Cut, clean, ream, and fit together piping between tee and new iso valve or pipe extending from old valve. Swt it all up. Connect di-electric union halves. CLEAN YOUR PIPE AND FITTINGS WITH A RAG AFTER SOLDERING IS COMPLETE! CLEAN THE TOP OF THE WH! ALL COPPER PIPE MUST BE PROPERLY CLEANED AND REAMED! ALL COPPER FITTINGS MUST BE WIRE BRUSHED EVEN IF THEY ARE BRAND NEW OUT OF THE BOX! Install new draft hood. Connect exhaust vent to draft hood making any necessary adjustments to length. Pressurize txt to whatever the existing house water pressure is. Install txt. Connect existing gas supply (if code approved) to wh. If there was previously no sediment trap and gas pressure test port associated with the wh, they must be installed. Existing gas stop must be code approved or replaced. Turn on water, fill tank, check for leaks. Turn on gas. Light wh. Put old wh on truck. Pick up and put up your tools. Clean up any mess.
> 
> ...


You're right, I probably can't do all of that in an hour. Then again I try not to charge a customer for scrapping out fittings. I don't strip fittings for my scrap bin until the end of the day. Everything else, with the exception of installing a pressure tank I get done in an hour or less. From the time I pull up to the time I leave. It's really a couple cuts, a couple adapters and a few fittings. Not a very lengthly process. Also we hardpipe our water heaters gas wise here. So all you have to do is drop the union and unscrew the black pipe and reuse it all on the new one. 

Obviously it takes longer if I have to change gas piping but 90% of the time it's reusable. Also putting the flue together doesn't take longer than 5 min unless you have to replace any peices.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

revenge said:


> I think he sbays them more for cooling them down to 'ork with


 Typing finger fall asleep again?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

NYC Plumber said:


> We have to use left/right couplings on gas. Only place we can use unions is at the heater, or for exposed kitchen equipment.
> But in general its a no and can be a pain.
> 
> I think he was talking about the water though... Why are you spraying water joints? And whats wrong with unions on water at the heater?


HA. People at work don't believe me that they make left/right couplings.


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

The only issue I run into with gas water heaters is when you switch brands, sometimes the newer heater is a few inches shorter than the old one, and you have to adjust the vent.

Probably 90% of the residential gas water heaters here in Raleigh are piped in with a flex line, either after black pipe or after CSST. Occasionally you run into one with a soft copper connector, and VERY infrequently one that is hard piped all the way to the heater.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

house plumber said:


> HA. People at work don't believe me that they make left/right couplings.


 I use them all the time on remodels.

Sure beats backing gas piping out all the way back to the meter.

One caveat, though -- I air test the existing gas piping to make sure it'll hold a test for the proscribed amount of time before I cut into it.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

hroark2112 said:


> The only issue I run into with gas water heaters is when you switch brands, sometimes the newer heater is a few inches shorter than the old one, and you have to adjust the vent.
> 
> Probably 90% of the residential gas water heaters here in Raleigh are piped in with a flex line, either after black pipe or after CSST. Occasionally you run into one with a soft copper connector, and VERY infrequently one that is hard piped all the way to the heater.


Soft copper??? Im sorry to me that is just scary. 
Maybe its me and what im use to, but everthing is hard piped right to heater... Ive actully never seen anything else... Except in jersey once, but i replaced the flex with a nipple. easy enough and i left with my peace of mind.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

NYC Plumber said:


> Soft copper??? Im sorry to me that is just scary.
> Maybe its me and what im use to, but everthing is hard piped right to heater... Ive actully never seen anything else... Except in jersey once, but i replaced the flex with a nipple. easy enough and i left with my peace of mind.


 A nipple and a ground joint union, right?


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> A nipple and a ground joint union, right?


Yeah... Its all i know, so anything less just doesn't look right to me.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Around here anything done more than 10-15 years ago is soft copper if its on l.p. Actually did a new house last summer that the hvac guys did in all soft copper, it was way back in the sticks and the chances of it ever going to natural are slim to none.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Black is the only ridged pipe allowed in va under the IPC. of coarse we use unions on gas pipe. They dont even sell those left right nipples, adapters here. Only in southern ca have I seen those( where they don't allow unions on gas pipe) We would never use brass on a gas line. By choice, I don't use unions on copper, there's no need to.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Typing finger fall asleep again?


Lol


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

plumb nutz said:


> Wait are you sweating the adapters onto the copper when they are already on the heater..?
> 
> Bty, black is not the only material that can be used in ol' VA


No, I sweat them on the ground, then after they cool, I use tape dope and pipe dope and tighten them onto the heater, we stoped using dielectric unions 20 years ago.


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Doesn't your code require unions on water heaters?

Also, are you screwing a copper FIP adapter on to a galvanized water heater nipple?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I think bayside500 was one that didn't believe me.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

If you don't have to save the water heater a 12ga with deer slugs makes an impression. :laughing:


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

hroark2112 said:


> Doesn't your code require unions on water heaters?
> 
> Also, are you screwing a copper FIP adapter on to a galvanized water heater nipple?


No, IPC does not require, and yes, copper adapter right on water heater nipple


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

On gas, here, we can put a union just about anywhere as long as its accessible and necessary. Plenty of copper for gas around here, with brass fittings, and rarely see black iron systems on new residential. I work in a lot of old homes and do commercial construction, so I still work with plenty of black iron.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

That adapter will not cause electrolisis due to the plastic coating that over laps over the nipple protecting the nipple I due the same the only way it will cause electrolisis is if u have leak you didn't catch before u left


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Black is the only ridged pipe allowed in va under the IPC. of coarse we use unions on gas pipe. They dont even sell those left right nipples, adapters here. Only in southern ca have I seen those( where they don't allow unions on gas pipe) We would never use brass on a gas line. By choice, I don't use unions on copper, there's no need to.


well I read that and it didn't seem right, sooo.... I pulled out the good ol' IPC IFGC, just to check...

Hmmm, yea, the only pipe specifically not allowed by code is cast iron. So, in VA you can use copper, BI, galvanized, brass, or aluminum, in so long as the gas is non corrosive to the piping...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

revenge said:


> That adapter will not cause electrolisis due to the plastic coating that over laps over the nipple protecting the nipple I due the same the only way it will cause electrolisis is if u have leak you didn't catch before u left


He agrees... :thumbup:



TheMaster said:


> One 40 gas Ruud water heater......30 years old.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You may get away with it in your area....

But Brass is a Better Choice Universally....:yes:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

revenge said:


> That adapter will not cause electrolisis due to the plastic coating that over laps over the nipple protecting the nipple I due the same the only way it will cause electrolisis is if u have leak you didn't catch before u left


 And how do you think it's going to hold up in a humid environment?

Sure, the inner pipeway may be nominally protected, but how will it hold up once acidic condensation starts attacking the connection from the outside in?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> But Brass is a Better Choice Universally....:yes:


 I have to bite my tongue every time I see someone tout a direct, hard piped copper connection over a connection made with flexible supplies, brass or dielectric unions.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

If that would be the case then all piping that lays on unistrut and all pipes that have escuchings allpipes that have unistruts clamps and all pipes hanging with galvenized cevis hangers would cause electrolis right mind you that not al of these aplications are insulated to protect the pipe


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

revenge said:


> If that would be the case then all piping that lays on unistrut and all pipes that have escuchings allpipes that have unistruts clamps and all pipes hanging with galvenized cevis hangers would cause electrolis right mind you that not al of these aplications are insulated to protect the pipe


But they should be insulated by wrapping the pipe or a rubber insert or glass or foam insulation or you will have electrolysis and not to mention deterioration of the pipe due to movement and friction..... Even when I use green painted unistrut and copper clamps I wrap the pipe with a bit of mill wrap to prevent the movement rubbing off the paint and then causing electrolysis


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

And escouching are not brass so y we don't have problems ther


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

There should be no direct contact between galvanized metal and copper. If you use galvanized unistrut or clevis hangers and don't insulate the pipe, isolation tape should be used to protect the pipe.

The plastic in the inside of a water heater nipple might protect the inside of the nipple, but not the connection between the threads of the nipple and the threads of the copper adapter.


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> When I find a water heater that will not drain, I have cut off an end of a rubber washing machine hose and send it down the hot water side of the heater and connect my pump to it to drain.


great minds think alike


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

revenge said:


> escuchings





revenge said:


> escouching


Escutcheon


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

revenge said:


> That adapter will not cause electrolisis due to the plastic coating that over laps over the nipple protecting the nipple I due the same the only way it will cause electrolisis is if u have leak you didn't catch before u left


I believe you are mistaken. The plastic lining on water heater nipples is not intended to serve as a dielectric fitting and does not conform to the code requirement. The two metals must be isolated from each other by a non-conductive material.

According to IPC 2009, 605.24.1 this must be a brass fitting, dielectric fitting, or a dielectric union. Neither the IPC nor our inspectors recognize water heater nipples as dielectric fittings.

I understand that those nipples are not regular galvanized steel and WH manufacturers call them "dielectric" nipples, but the code officials don't agree with them, yet.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> I believe you are mistaken. The plastic lining on water heater nipples is not intended to serve as a dielectric fitting and does not conform to the code requirement. The two metals must be isolated from each other by a non-conductive material.
> 
> According to IPC 2009, 605.24.1 this must be a brass fitting, dielectric fitting, or a dielectric union. Neither the IPC nor our inspectors recognize water heater nipples as dielectric fittings.
> 
> I understand that those nipples are not regular galvanized steel and WH manufacturers call them "dielectric" nipples, but the code officials don't agree with them, yet.


I agree with that. A copper flex connector 
Has a dielectric union on it at the connection. It has a plastic insert and a washer that prevents the copper from contacting the nipple so I always use those.. On a commercial install you must use a dielectric union!!!!!!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

revenge said:


> And escouching are not brass so y we don't have problems ther


They are chrome plated or plastic


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I do use insilation tape on all installs but some people do forget well I do respect all of your input


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Can't say as I've done many resi wh re & re's, coming from the ICI sector, but I do boatloads of unit heaters, baseboard heaters and fancoils with heating/cooling capabilities. All units come with bmi nipples and are all hard piped with copper WITH A DIELECTRIC UNION! it is not only spec'd by EVERY spec book from EVERY customer on EVERY job I've EVER worked on, they are required by my local code, and are straight up and down proper plumbing practice...

Today it's dielectric unions, tomorrow you may decide that traps and vents aren't really required...

$0.01-9/10


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## bluewater (Jul 14, 2011)

I use a brass coupling and a copper male adpt I never use flex connectors because I'm a plumber not a home depot warrior and I always run off 12 inch from the heater with copper and then tie to what ever pipe is in the home


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

bluewater said:


> I use a brass coupling and a copper male adpt I never use flex connectors because I'm a plumber not a home depot warrior and I always run off 12 inch from the heater with copper and then tie to what ever pipe is in the home


Using flex connectors does not make you a home depot warrior. That's how I was taught by my old master plumber..... And that's how most are installed here in west Tx


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

bluewater said:


> I use a brass coupling and a copper male adpt I never use flex connectors because I'm a plumber not a home depot warrior and I always run off 12 inch from the heater with copper and then tie to what ever pipe is in the home


 Do you live in an earthquake zone where flex connections make more sense than rigid connections?


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Brass on gas pipe? That's a no no. Black steel only here in va. We aren't requires to do hardly anything you do. Drain the heater with a pump, make up two female adapters, tighten them up on new heater, put in place and install new ballvalve. I always spray joints with water bottle and wipe down with a rag. Also unions are a no no. Solid joint everywhere. I use slip couplings if there's no room for movement.


 cut off copper pipes leading into top of heater,undo gas connector remove connector from control, drain heater and gently remove exhisting piping at top of old heater,unsweat pipe leaving [email protected] valve.Put old pipes back on (storage tank),total material.2X 3/4 couplings.Thats the way de hacks still do them. (big grin)


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

We never use flex connectors for anything ( including sink and toilet supplies ) we go with a 6" brass nipple then copper from there.

Flex connectors are the work of the devil :thumbsup:


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

At least got one thing right I don't use flex on heaters but ido use mip s straight to heaters only if I can get:thumbup: the boss to by unions I would be good cause I not gonna buy them


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> You're right, I probably can't do all of that in an hour. Then again I try not to charge a customer for scrapping out fittings. I don't strip fittings for my scrap bin until the end of the day. Everything else, with the exception of installing a pressure tank I get done in an hour or less. From the time I pull up to the time I leave. It's really a couple cuts, a couple adapters and a few fittings. Not a very lengthly process. Also we hardpipe our water heaters gas wise here. So all you have to do is drop the union and unscrew the black pipe and reuse it all on the new one.
> 
> Obviously it takes longer if I have to change gas piping but 90% of the time it's reusable. Also putting the flue together doesn't take longer than 5 min unless you have to replace any peices.


Stripping the brass is more efficiently done if the tank is still connected to the water distribution system. It's part of the job and the customer must pay for it. Removal and disposal of the old tank is also part of the job and the customer must pay for that as well.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

bluewater said:


> I use a brass coupling and a copper male adpt I never use flex connectors because I'm a plumber not a home depot warrior and I always run off 12 inch from the heater with copper and then tie to what ever pipe is in the home




New Jersey mandates 18" of copper off top of w/h before transition.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

mccmech said:


> New Jersey mandates 18" of copper off top of w/h before transition.


 That practice has been pretty much adopted by all 3 of the major code writing authorities.

It's a good idea and one I can get behind.


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## bluewater (Jul 14, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Do you live in an earthquake zone where flex connections make more sense than rigid connections?


No I live in eastern north Carolina I just think it.takes.away from the trade it dose not.take much skill to.use a.flex.connection no offense just my opinion I think by.using flex u.are.allowing home.owners to.do.it.there.self and as you know this.takes.from all us lic plumbers


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

bluewater said:


> No I live in eastern north Carolina I just think it.takes.away from the trade it dose not.take much skill to.use a.flex.connection no offense just my opinion I think by.using flex u.are.allowing home.owners to.do.it.there.self and as you know this.takes.from all us lic plumbers


 Amazing how regional differences add so much more impetus to the energy required to shove that stick up your arse.

Normally I'd caution you to think before you speak, but we both know you could give a rip.

Go in peace.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

bluewater said:


> I use a brass coupling and a copper male adpt I never use flex connectors because I'm a plumber not a home depot warrior and I always run off 12 inch from the heater with copper and then tie to what ever pipe is in the home


Ah just screw a couple of sharkbites in the top and jam the pex in....

Next! :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

smellslike$tome said:


> Stripping the brass is more efficiently done if the tank is still connected to the water distribution system. It's part of the job and the customer must pay for it. Removal and disposal of the old tank is also part of the job and the customer must pay for that as well.


 
Since when is getting a few scrap dollars part of the job? It doesn't effect the customer if you do it or not, so they shouldn't have to pay for it. Disposal and removal are part of the job, and the customer does pay for that. I charge a flat rate for heaters that includes my time to pick on up and my time to get rid of the old one. I would not seperate scrap from anything while i'm on the job as I see it as just bad form. 

When i'm working for a customer they get 100% of my time. If I spent 10 min stripping a heater that is 10 min longer for the customer to have their water off. I worry about my extra scrap dollars after I get done working for the day is it is extra money that has nothing to do with the task at hand.

First stripping a heater, then doing a copper pipe replacement and cutting all the valves and fittings off. Then sorting out the #1, #2 and brass, having it take an hour or more? After all, it's part of the job and the customer should pay for it right?


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> Since when is getting a few scrap dollars part of the job? It doesn't effect the customer if you do it or not, so they shouldn't have to pay for it. Disposal and removal are part of the job, and the customer does pay for that. I charge a flat rate for heaters that includes my time to pick on up and my time to get rid of the old one. I would not seperate scrap from anything while i'm on the job as I see it as just bad form.
> 
> When i'm working for a customer they get 100% of my time. If I spent 10 min stripping a heater that is 10 min longer for the customer to have their water off. I worry about my extra scrap dollars after I get done working for the day is it is extra money that has nothing to do with the task at hand.
> 
> First stripping a heater, then doing a copper pipe replacement and cutting all the valves and fittings off. Then sorting out the #1, #2 and brass, having it take an hour or more? After all, it's part of the job and the customer should pay for it right?


Yes.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> Since when is getting a few scrap dollars part of the job? It doesn't effect the customer if you do it or not, so they shouldn't have to pay for it. Disposal and removal are part of the job, and the customer does pay for that. I charge a flat rate for heaters that includes my time to pick on up and my time to get rid of the old one. I would not seperate scrap from anything while i'm on the job as I see it as just bad form.
> 
> When i'm working for a customer they get 100% of my time. If I spent 10 min stripping a heater that is 10 min longer for the customer to have their water off. I worry about my extra scrap dollars after I get done working for the day is it is extra money that has nothing to do with the task at hand.
> 
> First stripping a heater, then doing a copper pipe replacement and cutting all the valves and fittings off. Then sorting out the #1, #2 and brass, having it take an hour or more? After all, it's part of the job and the customer should pay for it right?


If he doesn't want to pay for it then we can leave it in a pile for him somewhere on site. In this case we will charge for the estimated value of the scrap but not for the time it takes to process it.

I've changed out 100's of water heaters. I have yet to have a single customer want to keep his old tank.


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## bluewater (Jul 14, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Amazing how regional differences add so much more impetus to the energy required to shove that stick up your arse.
> 
> Normally I'd caution you to think before you speak, but we both know you could give a rip.
> 
> Go in peace.


So I guse you must build trailers for a living because everyone I see has a flex connector ha ha I build custom homes and do custom.work and take pride in what I do its not how fast you can get out the door and take the.coustmers money . O I guse u use pex supplyes on w/c also I use Chrome but I bet your old master did.not teach you how to bend them science he did not even teach you how to solder pipe


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

So typical of a plumber..._everybody sucks if they don't do it like me_.

It's hard to fault a guy for having passion and pride in our trade and his craftsmanship. I just hope you have a step ladder handy for the dismount from that high horse your riding.

Simmer down Bluewater and stop kicking our cat.


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

I don't like flex supplies on water heaters, just a personal preference, but I'm also not in area with any seismic codes. If I were I'd install flexes on all of them, you'd be an idiot not to. One less thing for the HO to have fixed if a tremor or decent quake hit. I know it's not good future business practice to do such favors for HO, guess I'm just a sucker that likes to help someone out.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

smellslike$tome said:


> *Stripping the brass is more efficiently done if the tank is still connected to the water distribution system. It's part of the job and the customer must pay for it.* *Removal and disposal of the old tank is also part of the job and the customer must pay for that as well.*


You would get laughed at if you tried that around here, just about every plumber in my area does it for free.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Not really for free if you are charging for time removal and disposal is part of the price.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Titletownplumbr said:


> You would get laughed at if you tried that around here, just about every plumber in my area does it for free.


Nobody should do it for free. No plumber should do _anything_ plumbing related for free. Do it in the driveway on site or at the shop, it doesn't matter. Just because it doesn't show up on the customer's bill doesn't mean they aren't paying for it. Catch my drift?






Paul


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## bluewater (Jul 14, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> So typical of a plumber...everybody sucks if they don't do it like me.
> 
> It's hard to fault a guy for having passion and pride in our trade and his craftsmanship. I just hope you have a step ladder handy for the dismount from that high horse your riding.
> 
> Simmer down Bluewater and stop kicking our cat.


Man I'm just stoking the.fire I love this form its good.to see how other plumbers do things


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

bluewater said:


> So I guse you must build trailers for a living because everyone I see has a flex connector ha ha I build custom homes and do custom.work and take pride in what I do its not how fast you can get out the door and take the.coustmers money . O I guse u use pex supplyes on w/c also I use Chrome but I bet your old master did.not teach you how to bend them science he did not even teach you how to solder pipe


Ha ha ha. So you bend tube wow!!!! What's the biggest copper you install in a house?? 1 1/2 ??? Install some 4 or 6 inch them talk to us about solder... Btw my master plumber is 73 yrs old and still in the field he knows his shiot!!! Just stoking the fire a bit Lol


----------



## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

rocksteady said:


> Nobody should do it for free. No plumber should do _anything_ plumbing related for free. Do it in the driveway on site or at the shop, it doesn't matter. Just because it doesn't show up on the customer's bill doesn't mean they aren't paying for it. Catch my drift?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's an expected task that comes with the sale and installation of a water heater, if you were to display the cost of removal as an extra you would get laughed at. Bottom line is you still have to be competitive with your competition, if you were to add that as an extra that people could see you wouldn't be selling too many heaters. Sometimes it's better if you advertise it as free removal wether it is or isn't, at least in the mind of the customer they think it's free and increases the chance of a sale.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Titletownplumbr said:


> Sometimes it's better if you advertise it as free removal wether it is or isn't, at least in the mind of the customer they think it's free and increases the chance of a sale.


 
That's the key right there. Not just in this case but for any "behind the scenes" expenses.








Paul


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

bluewater said:


> Man I'm just stoking the.fire I love this form its good.to see how other plumbers do things


How long have you held a plumbing license?


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## bluewater (Jul 14, 2011)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Ha ha ha. So you bend tube wow!!!! What's the biggest copper you install in a house?? 1 1/2 ??? Install some 4 or 6 inch them talk to us about solder... Btw my master plumber is 73 yrs old and still in the field he knows his shiot!!! Just stoking the fire a bit Lol


I've ran plenty of large copper all I'm saying is flex connectors suck and they take away from the trade to me they look cheap .
O and I'm 31 now and I got my p1 when I was 18 not trying to hurt your felings just the way I see it


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

bluewater said:


> I've ran plenty of large copper all I'm saying is flex connectors suck and they take away from the trade to me they look cheap .
> O and I'm 31 now and I got my p1 when I was 18 not trying to hurt your felings just the way I see it


Whats a P1? If thats a license how did u get it at 18?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

bluewater said:


> I've ran plenty of large copper all I'm saying is flex connectors suck and they take away from the trade to me they look cheap .
> O and I'm 31 now and I got my p1 when I was 18 not trying to hurt your felings just the way I see it


No feelings hurt here... Each to there own... But I don't dog on your ways don't dog on mine ... Most my jobs are spec jobs and they get what's in the book so it's the engineer choosing flexes and if done properly they can look as plumb as any pipe.... I rarely install any thing under a 100 gallon boiler so I usually use dialectic unions and hard pipe and I prefer . It that way Btw I am 32 and have never plumbed a house i only do commercial, industrial, and mechanical plumbing .... I see what service guys buy and new builders and looks pretty simple to me. But here Thers a lot of plumbers on the zone and a lot to be learned if we respect our differences .....


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

bluewater said:


> So I guse you must build trailers for a living because everyone I see has a flex connector ha ha I build custom homes and do custom.work and take pride in what I do its not how fast you can get out the door and take the.coustmers money . O I guse u use pex supplyes on w/c also I use Chrome but I bet your old master did.not teach you how to bend them science he did not even teach you how to solder pipe


You bend brass supply tubes?

Wow, can you teach me?


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> You bend brass supply tubes?
> 
> Wow, can you teach me?


Always with the subtle one-liners Chad...

Keep em coming, classic!

:laughing:

UA


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

U666A said:


> Always with the subtle one-liners Chad...
> 
> Keep em coming, classic!
> 
> ...


 

Always...


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Titletownplumbr said:


> It's an expected task that comes with the sale and installation of a water heater, if you were to display the cost of removal as an extra you would get laughed at. Bottom line is you still have to be competitive with your competition, if you were to add that as an extra that people could see you wouldn't be selling too many heaters. Sometimes it's better if you advertise it as free removal wether it is or isn't, at least in the mind of the customer they think it's free and increases the chance of a sale.




It's not good practice to lie or decieve a customer. If it's not free, don't say it is.:no:

Oh, and I can not, no way be competitive with my competition. Those guys are a bunch of idiots who have no idea how to run a business. If I tried to be "competitive", I'd be out of business in a blink of an eye.

WY


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## bluewater (Jul 14, 2011)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> No feelings hurt here... Each to there own... But I don't dog on your ways don't dog on mine ... Most my jobs are spec jobs and they get what's in the book so it's the engineer choosing flexes and if done properly they can look as plumb as any pipe.... I rarely install any thing under a 100 gallon boiler so I usually use dialectic unions and hard pipe and I prefer . It that way Btw I am 32 and have never plumbed a house i only do commercial, industrial, and mechanical plumbing .... I see what service guys buy and new builders and looks pretty simple to me. But here Thers a lot of plumbers on the zone and a lot to be learned if we respect our differences .....[/to QUOTE]
> 
> Cool man I was not.trying to dog you out sorry if I.came across that way can't we all just get along .ha ha happy plumbing


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## bluewater (Jul 14, 2011)

U666A said:


> Always with the subtle one-liners Chad...
> 
> Keep em coming, classic!
> 
> ...


Ha ha just poking fun


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Ah just screw a couple of sharkbites in the top and jam the pex in....
> 
> Next! :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


Damn, should have used more sharkbites!!


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Our heaters are scrapped on slow days. Never on the job. 

I can see it now after it is stripped, customer: that's my scrap, you can take the tank.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

bluewater said:


> Man I'm just stoking the.fire I love this form its good.to see how other plumbers do things


 
Back off there Sluggo, stoking the fire is MY job here. :laughing:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

We had to have quick disconnects on any appliance that might get changed at any time, range, gaspack, waterheater, furnace whatever. We always used flexlines I figure if I do my job right the customer will call me back even if he thinks he might be able to do it himself. I have started to weld my P-traps under the sink though, damn old ladies thinking they can clean a p-trap themselves.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Back off there Sluggo, stoking the fire is MY job here. :laughing:


It's too damn HOT to be stoking any fires.

Until it cools down, I will be more than happy to stir the pot.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> We had to have quick disconnects on any appliance that might get changed at any time, range, gaspack, waterheater, furnace whatever. We always used flexlines I figure if I do my job right the customer will call me back even if he thinks he might be able to do it himself. I have started to weld my P-traps under the sink though, damn old ladies thinking they can clean a p-trap themselves.



when did we start "welding" stuff in the plumbing field? Typically we will solder or braze, yes?:whistling2:


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## skitian (Apr 5, 2011)

A glue joint is a weld joint


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

mccmech said:


> when did we start "welding" stuff in the plumbing field? Typically we will solder or braze, yes?:whistling2:


Bout when this was invented.... :whistling2:


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## PeckPlumbing (Mar 19, 2011)

plumb nutz said:


> I got a little zoeller pump I hook up the the boiler drain and discharge either to a drain or to the outside. It will drain a 50 gallon in about 10-15 min. Just enough time to set up the new heater...


Our zoeller and liberty pumps both suck... and I don't mean suck as in working. 

You get debris in that pump or air.. it will just sit there and cavitate. They do work sometimes, but usually around here its just a waste of time.

Cap off the nipples and air that tank up. It WILL drain.! :thumbup:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

mccmech said:


> when did we start "welding" stuff in the plumbing field? Typically we will solder or braze, yes?:whistling2:


 




PVC pipe is technically joined together by 'solvent welding'. PVC glue is technically solvent cement.


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