# American Leak Detection



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

I have a commercial restaurant account that has a water leak under the slab. Cold water, I have narrowed down the search somewhat to an area in the back kitchen. Bout a 4x4 square. The only reason I think I am close is because you can see water seeping through the cracks in the tile. I also know that water will travel and show up in a place and be farther away. I'm even getting water in the back drive through about 10ft from the building. 

We don't have any kind of leak detection equipment, so I contacted American Leak Detection. Just wondering if anyone has used them in the past and what their success rate was. They told me that they generally find the leak in 1hr with a 2hr min. charge for drive time. They are about 1 1/2 out of town from me. Seems like a good deal but I want to do my customer right and bring someone in that can find it quick to avoid busting the world up.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> I have a commercial restaurant account that has a water leak under the slab. Cold water, I have narrowed down the search somewhat to an area in the back kitchen. Bout a 4x4 square. The only reason I think I am close is because you can see water seeping through the cracks in the tile. I also know that water will travel and show up in a place and be farther away. I'm even getting water in the back drive through about 10ft from the building.
> 
> We don't have any kind of leak detection equipment, so I contacted American Leak Detection. Just wondering if anyone has used them in the past and what their success rate was. They told me that they generally find the leak in 1hr with a 2hr min. charge for drive time. They are about 1 1/2 out of town from me. Seems like a good deal but I want to do my customer right and bring someone in that can find it quick to avoid busting the world up.


I have never hired them but I have watched them and they are only as good as the franchise and if they can't find it a "supervisor" may come out. You guys should consider investing in your own locator and then you know what your looking at. 

Another trick you may consider if you do it without a locator is a long 1/4" masonry drill and drill on the grout line. The hole closet to the leak will have the most pressure.

Mark


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I charge about 400 for commercial. You don't have a navi track?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

If you have it down to a 4x4 area you can do the grout line trick with a probe stethoscope(sears)


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Protech said:


> I charge about 400 for commercial. You don't have a navi track?


General Gen-Eye for sewers and Ditchwitch for location, not leaks.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Protech said:


> If you have it down to a 4x4 area you can do the grout line trick with a probe stethoscope(sears)


The only thing that is making me wonder is the water that is showing up out back, but it could be multiple leaks


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

copper or galvo?


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

copper


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ive used them in a couple of instances. This one near me is pretty good even tho I have a Gen-ear and can find a leak most of the time there are occaisions they work out. One locate instance he helped sell the repipe for me.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

can you find where the water main enters the building, surely if it is commercial they have to have a riser somewhere where the water enters the building, only reason I ask, and maybe the most obvious one. Find the line where it enters the building, isolate it, and determine if it is in the buiding, or on the main line into the building.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> can you find where the water main enters the building, surely if it is commercial they have to have a riser somewhere where the water enters the building, only reason I ask, and maybe the most obvious one. Find the line where it enters the building, isolate it, and determine if it is in the buiding, or on the main line into the building.


Water meter is in front. Leak is showing up in very back, but it could be traveling. He has a set of original prints. I would have to open up a wall because everything is looped. No overhead piping I have already searched for it. The bad thing is I have to shut it down at night because he runs all day long till about 10pm. That might be an option though.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Find that manifold, charge um extra, isolate that ******** and then see if that lil dial still a spins on that there meter.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I use the Metrotech HL-4000 with both the GM10 and the GM50 microphone.

Mark


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> I use the Metrotech HL-4000 with both the GM10 and the GM50 microphone.
> 
> Mark


Do you have to pressure up lines? Or just sweep the area untill you detect water running.


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## Down N Dirty (Mar 12, 2009)

Like the one post says, it depends upon the owner. The one we use in Tulsa is a very valuable and dependable one when we are pressed fore time and need to get to another job.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

I have used them 40+ times in 6 years, same guy everytime and has been within a foot everytime. no issues at all with them.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> Do you have to pressure up lines? Or just sweep the area untill you detect water running.


First you have to do some locating to narrow down where the leak is. Then you use a NaviTrack or something similar to locate the pipe so you are only listening above the pipe. You have to have the water on so that you can listen for the noise it makes at the leak. They tell me mine will locate to 15' but I have not needed to locate deeper than 4'. Mine will record and memorize up to 9-locations so it will really pinpoint your leak.

Mark


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I have to say I am really surprised how many of you are using outside services to do your locating.

Mark


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

PM sent. Not giving detailed leak location info out on public forums.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I use fisher and navitrack


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## Down N Dirty (Mar 12, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> I have to say I am really surprised how many of you are using outside services to do your locating.
> 
> I would guess a lot of it would be do to the type of company someone is running. For us, we are mainly a new construction and remodel company. If we decide to go more into service, or branch out with a side company than I could see us needing the material to do leak detection.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Protech said:


> PM sent. Not giving detailed leak location info out on public forums.


Got it buddy. Thanks bro


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## kellybhutchings (Jul 29, 2008)

I also use the fisher and navitrak


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## cajunplumberjoe (Mar 26, 2009)

plumberman- i have had ok results using the local leak detection svc. try closing the valve on the water heater and try to isolate to hot or cold first. check water meter.then backtrack from there as if you had installed the loops. hopefully on the hot.warm spot on floor.you can also narrow it down further by closing off mixing valve on water heater. check water meter. should be tempered water going to all fixtures except mop sink,dishwasher, 3 compt sink. even when we use amer leak detect i tell my guys that they are the plumbers and they know what to do regardless of what leak detect guy says. my best guy has gone with good gut feeling doing the opposite of what leak detect guy said and been right.sometimes leak detection guy is off.50/50 at best for us with leak detect guy.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I always used this one, havent purchased one yet. would you say that the Navi trac is better than this gen ear?










Works pretty well with compressed air on the line. makes it sputter and spit. Pretty darn accurate.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

navitrack is used to locate matalic lines, not to listen for leaks. Fisher is good for audio location. XLT30


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Ive got the above gen-ear but not a navitrak yet which having both is how American does it. I have nailed the locations a few times but find it as much an art as a science. Sometimes the stupid concrete resonates and I dont know what to do with the different frequencies. Basicly having the tool gets me in and then its a "I hope I can find this one" sort of thing. I d like to learn it.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm still looking at purchasing Goldak.. no need for the navitrac, (comes with a wand) even though I have it for with my sewer cameras. great locator. :thumbsup:


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## Double-A (Aug 17, 2008)

For finding hot water leaks under slabs, nothing beats the resident cat. 

Ask the home owners where the cat has been sleeping lately and go feel that part of the floor (if its floor). My money is on the cat every time.

By the way, I've noticed no one has mentioned thermal imaging for leak detection. Does no one use it?


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> I'm still looking at purchasing Goldak.. no need for the navitrac, (comes with a wand) even though I have it for with my sewer cameras. great locator. :thumbsup:


I bought my first Goldak in the 70s and they have not changed too much since. Before you buy a Goldak, borrow my Metrotech and see what you think.

Mark


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Update on leak....

They found it where I had figured it was. 1" loop on cold water under slab. Found mani in backside wall. Will reroute overhead to triple compartment sink and ice maker.


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## That One Guy (Sep 14, 2008)

I used American Leak for a long time until one day when the customer called to cancel the job because she said American leak had located the leak and fixed it, wtf?? I called to see if they employed any licensed plumbers but never got a response. 

I use a Gen Ear with excellent results along with the Navitrack II and buzz box to locate the pipe. One of our guys has a thermal imager which is pretty slick and can really help with hot water leaks under the slab. 

The second time I used the Gen Ear I couldnt locate the leak outside and ended up replacing the line. It sounded like water was leaking everywhere but what I didnt know until after the job was complete is that there is an underground canal. That explained alot.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

WestCoastPlumber said:


> I'm still looking at purchasing Goldak.. no need for the navitrac, (comes with a wand) even though I have it for with my sewer cameras. great locator. :thumbsup:


 
That's what i've used in the past and had very good results with it. I own the Goldak locator and a cool old Detectron leak detector that has to be 40 years old and it works great for me. 90% of leak detection for me is common sense. Like you already said, you've got it isolated to a 4'x4' area (hopefully :thumbup. If it's a hot leak I've found the IR thermometers with the little laser pointer on them work awesome to detect slight variations in the floor temp. 

On the Am. Leak Detection question. I've seen them work a few times around here and the results were not good. I think it was 3 different jobs and they couldn't find the leak on any of them. It really depends on who you get, i guess. Kind of like RotoRooter. You might get a good tech or a dud.






paul


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## tnoisaw (Jun 16, 2009)

It's all about the opparator of the equiptment. I had a guy a few weeks ago do a locate for me. The leak ended up being fourth feet away from his first locate.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Double-A said:


> For finding hot water leaks under slabs, nothing beats the resident cat.
> 
> Ask the home owners where the cat has been sleeping lately and go feel that part of the floor (if its floor). My money is on the cat every time.
> 
> By the way, I've noticed no one has mentioned thermal imaging for leak detection. Does no one use it?


Agree.

Our next big purchase


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Some techs are better than others.


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## PlumbingTheCape (Mar 1, 2010)

Double-A said:


> For finding hot water leaks under slabs, nothing beats the resident cat.
> 
> Ask the home owners where the cat has been sleeping lately and go feel that part of the floor (if its floor). My money is on the cat every time.
> 
> By the way, I've noticed no one has mentioned thermal imaging for leak detection. Does no one use it?


Had a gut demo one for us during the week, it only shows up the surface heat, which is no good for us, until someone develops a xray thermal leak detection camera... that could work, speak to NASA???


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## 1234mg (Nov 13, 2010)

My 2 cents would be to make sure he maps the manifolds for you as well--lots of the locator companies will detect a leak and take off. Could be that you end up wanting to re-route the line.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

*American Leak Location*

Before electronic leak location was available I would connect cold water to the hot water tank and crank up the heat, throttle the valve and create steam and heat the floor and locate the area. Electronic leak locator is a much easier way to locate the leak.

A very small leak cannot be found electronically


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Richard Hilliard said:


> Before electronic leak location was available I would connect cold water to the hot water tank and crank up the heat, throttle the valve and create steam and heat the floor and locate the area. Electronic leak locator is a much easier way to locate the leak.
> 
> A very small leak cannot be found electronically


 
Yes true, under like 15 gallons per hour (so I'm told, but I can't remember for certain) the leak cannot be detected.

I don't use the electronic gadgets, I do it the old school way. Cut open the wall to expose manifolds, cut and cap pipes. This shows what pipes feed what fixtures; then a solution can be proposed to customer. I have used American Leak Detection in past when I worked for others, but now being self-employed, I like to keep the work in-house.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Little story I thought I'd share. I once went on a call where the people had no hot water. So what does every plumber think? Must be the heating elements and/or thermostats not working on W/H, right? So I checked the elements and t-stats, they were OK. So now I am stumped. I called an electrician and asked if maybe the amps were too low. He said if they were, that would trip breaker.  OK, so I asked my boss at the time, who has probably 50 years in the trade. He said probably a slab leak. So I hiked up the temp on t-stats and searched for a warm spot on the tile floor and found one. Carefully lifted up tile so as not to break 'em, chipped open floor and sure enough, copper had a pin hole leak in it.

I learned something new that day. :thumbsup:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> Little story I thought I'd share. I once went on a call where the people had no hot water. So what does every plumber think? Must be the heating elements and/or thermostats not working on W/H, right? So I checked the elements and t-stats, they were OK. So now I am stumped. I called an electrician and asked if maybe the amps were too low. He said if they were, that would trip breaker.  OK, so I asked my boss at the time, who has probably 50 years in the trade. He said probably a slab leak. So I hiked up the temp on t-stats and searched for a warm spot on the tile floor and found one. Carefully lifted up tile so as not to break 'em, chipped open floor and sure enough, copper had a pin hole leak in it.
> 
> I learned something new that day. :thumbsup:


Similar story, I had a 40-unit apartment building with a no hot water call. The heater was a 100-199 in the basement and it was firing when I got there. I checked everything out and everything was fine but the manager said they had been without hot water for days. I had the manger let me in units one at a time and sure enough I found a three handle Price Pfister tub and shower valve spilling 5-gpm of hot water in the tub. The tenant never reported the leak but it was all leaking down the drain.

Mark


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*Heat tricks*

Ive never had the gadgets but one thing I would do on leaks was to locate the manifold I felt pertained, and using my torch I would heat the lines to find the line that has movement. Of course hot water lines are a bit more challenging but still can. Copper or galv. is of course the easiest but still doable on pex or poly just have to be more careful with the heat. I have done many a reroute this way. Once I find the leaking loop I cut in and send in fish tape to locate other end of loop. I have a navitrack now but before that would jiggle the fish tape and someone walking around would hear the other end. Worked great actually.


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