# Question for all you wirsbo plumbers



## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

I heard today that you can actually expand wirsbo to far. I have used the pipe and always used crimp fittings. I PREFER copper. The shop I work for now uses copper on about 99% of their houses. One builder uses wirsbo. I have never used the expansion fittings before. It cant be that diffacult can it?


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

A monkey could do it...
That being said, we pondered the question about over expanding once. Of course an experiment followed.

Fully expanded a piece of 1/2" with the appropriate expander. Quickly changed the head, and proceded to expand to the limit of the 3/4 die. Changed over to 1" and expanded again. A white line Appeared on the side of the flared out end but it never did tear.

It never came close to returning to it's original shape. 

I have heard of guys trying a similar experiment but stopping at a 3/4 die in 1/2" pipe. Story goes the pipe actually shrunk down and grabbed the fitting, which they tried to pull out by hand but did not exceed. Apparently, appurtenances were not available to set up a pressure test.

I call bull****!

So let's see it guys, I know some of you have nothing better to do than waste T&M so let's see some factual info c/w pics!

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

I could see with an over sized tool. This guy said it could be expanded to much with the apropriat size head I dont think it can but i havent used it.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*yes you can do it*

I have messed up one time due to this ....

not reading the directions on my pnuematic air expansion gun can screw up the joints pretty badly....

you absloutely must keep the pressure at the air compressor only at about 80psi.... 

crank it up to 115 and the joints will leak due to over expansion....

wont pull that stunt ever again:no:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Dunno, never had that problem crimping before:whistling2:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

If wirsbo isn't contracting on fitting you should be able to use a heat air gun to warm pipe and it should go ahead and close down. ( or so is sposed to). Works well specially if running wirsbo in the winter on a nice cold top-out.


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## Walt (Mar 12, 2011)

*wirsbo expand*

have run lots of it and only problem has been air tests failing due to cold temp. install. started water testing and problems disappered. used in hotels condos and homes.love the product. i prefer expansion because your volume is not reduced like crimp is.


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## Walt (Mar 12, 2011)

another bonus is that you do not have to have the tool at the fitting(crimp you do and that can take extra thought do to tight quarters)you can expand the pex near your chest and then take to fitting.the warmer the temps the quicker you should move


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## Dun' Right (Sep 27, 2010)

I've done both crimp and swell pex. I have to say hands down that I love the swell pex far more, and won't ever do crimp pex again. Wirsbo makes a great product! 

Only leak I've ever had was on a sweat x wirsbo adapter. For whatever reason it had a small drip when I turned the water on. I drained the system then I took my torch, and heated up the fitting. Once heated, wirsbo goes back to it's factory shape. It sealed right up, and I've never had another problem with it. 

We had plans change 3 times on a job we were doing, and had wirsbo ran underslap to a 1/2 wall on the front line. Well in moving the FD's to the new location, I snagged the pex with the bucket of my excavator and kinked both hot and cold something fierce. All I had to do was heat the pipe up, and it went back to it's factory shape. 

As mentioned, I like that it doesn't restrict volume, and the fittings are plastic, unless it's a brass FIP or MIP adapter or sweat adapter. Pex/plastic fittings, you don't get calcium and mineral buildup. With crimp style pex, your basically putting in 3/8 od copper fittings. If it doesn't build up in the pipe, you can bet it's going to build up in those fittings, restricting the flow even more. 

As for the question first asked, I've never had a problem with over expanding a joint.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

The Uponor rep ( it's Uponor now fella's) says that over expansion should be avoided, especially in cold weather. Expanding 1/2" using a 3/4 tool, while possible is not something that any sane plumber would do and all materials can be damaged by improper installation so I am not sure what the point of stretching PEX to its breaking point would be.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*stretching wirsbo pex*



nhmaster3015 said:


> The Uponor rep ( it's Uponor now fella's) says that over expansion should be avoided, especially in cold weather. Expanding 1/2" using a 3/4 tool, while possible is not something that any sane plumber would do and all materials can be damaged by improper installation so I am not sure what the point of stretching PEX to its breaking point would be.


I dont think you can over stretch pex with the battery operated guns or with the "he man" hand expanders:laughing:

I messed up with the air gun at too high a setting and it 
seemed to push the prongs out just far enough to scar the
inside of the pipe enough to cause it not to seal properly

I heated the fittings with a heat gun till they were clear
and it still did not help.....

you really got to want to screw up with the stuff to do it wrong....:laughing::laughing:


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## beavercreekhc (Mar 15, 2010)

milwaukee came out with a new wirsbo battery powered expansion tools with the 1/2" 3/4" and 1" head coming with the kit for $300 at Plumb Supply. Has anyone used it? Is that a lot of money for one? How is it?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

beavercreekhc said:


> milwaukee came out with a new wirsbo battery powered expansion tools with the 1/2" 3/4" and 1" head coming with the kit for $300 at Plumb Supply. Has anyone used it? Is that a lot of money for one? How is it?


 I didn't like mine at first, but after working with it for awhile, I've come to appreciate it.

One major discovery I made was that you do *NOT* want to force the expander head into the pipe -- This defeats the auto-rotation feature.

A light touch makes a world of difference.

As for the price tag -- I pre-ordered mine about 6 months before they were released and paid $365.00. As part of the introductory promotion, they threw in a larger XC battery.

It still takes 24 expansions to expand 1", but I'm beginning to suspect I may have a defective unit, so I'm going to take advantage of the 'bare tool' offers on Amazon and buy a second one to see if I can get the number of expansions for 1" down to a more reasonable number.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Realizing this is a bit off the beggining question but Uponor fittings are beefier too. I run alot of Pex don't get me wrong, Uponor are higher priced in comparison but a better product IMO.


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

ran uponor for 12 years.... dropped it for Viega. the expansion was a pain in the butt waiting for the sleeves to decompress or putting stainless steel clamps on them to stop them from leaking. For surely in the winter with the product sitting in the cold truck.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

Ruudplumber said:


> ran uponor for 12 years.... dropped it for Viega. the expansion was a pain in the butt waiting for the sleeves to decompress or putting stainless steel clamps on them to stop them from leaking. For surely in the winter with the product sitting in the cold truck.[/QUOTE]
> 
> You just need to keep your expansion rings warm. When doing a rough in the winter I'll keep them in my pockets and have no problems with leaks.


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