# Polk County Florida utilities strong arms property owners



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

12/17/09 I'm sent out to camera inspect a residential sewer. Upon inspection I find that the line is crimped shut out on the easement. I let the property owner know that the problem is on the counties line not there private line. I advice him to call the county waste water deptartment and have them come fix it.

See the video here:





12/28/09 I get a phone call from my client. He states that the county inspected there lines and could find no problems. They don't know where the break is. I tell him to tell them "under the GIANT *NEON ORANGE* CROSS"

A few minutes later I get a call from the county worker explaining to me that they aren't going to fix that pipe because it's the property owners responsibility:blink:. I call the supervisor and he proceeds to tell me that they only maintain the sewers "man hole to man hole". He then faxes me the county ordinence that has been ratified by the state of Florida.

WTF man?!?!? That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

Let me get this straight.

1. When public utilities are present (even if added after the construction of your structure), you must tie onto their lines and abandon your well and on site sewage disposal system. You do not have a choice in the matter.

2. A contractor of THEIR choosing installs the lines on public property to THEIR specifications. You have no say in the construction location, materials or method of installation. They charge you a fee for this (again not your choice).

3. They are immune from any property damage liability resulting from the installation (broken private lines, sink holes, cracked drive way etc)

4. They are not responsible for maintaining the laterals THEY installed on THEIR property. They will only take care of the main sewer runs "man hole to man hole". In the event that they fail to keep the lines open and maintained, they are not liable for any damages to your property (floods due to sewer backups, disruption of service). If they make repairs on the main runs and break a lateral connection, they are not liable for the repair of said connection or lateral (both on public property), you are.

5. In the event that these laterals and lateral connections are in disrepair, it will be the private property owners responsibility to pay for the repairs. The property owner must first ask permission to make the repairs on said lines (they are public property after all). The private property owner is also responsible for any secondary damages to public property associated with the repair (asphalt/curb/sidewalk). A permit must be pulled and fee paid for the repair as well.

Am I the only one that thinks this is a communist racket?
Why is it that the law only applies to private individuals but the government is always exempt?

OK, I'm done venting now


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

That sounds about right. I'm not sure if all your points are the same but that's the way they do it around here. Man-hole to man-hole and the property owner eats it all. I think some cities will pay a portion of the repair but not 100%.




Paul


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

In every other county in FL that I've worked in, the city is responsible all the way to their tap at the property line. They are not responsible for the actual union between the private sewer and the public sewer tap though.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

It use to be the homeowner was responsible for the lateral here off the main line but now the water and sewer dept is responsible for anything on their side of the property line. The homeowner is responsible for everything on his side of the property line. A cleanout must be installed at the junction to determine whos lines screwed up and thats at the cost of the homeowner and is located on the homeowners side of the line.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I work in several different States and I always have to call because they are all different. Some will tell me their line starts at the curb and others tell me the HO owns all the way to their saddle.

Mark


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

In Chicago the HO is responsible for anything up to the edge of the city sidewalk, if it is under the sidewalk or in the parkway or street the city is responsible for repairs. Most suburbs however, make the HO responsible for everything up to the tap on the city's main.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I see some bumpy roads in Polk County's future. Literally. Here in Tally ho, Clean out must be within 5ft of the curb or sidewalk. If there is no cleanout, one must be installed before they will come out and camera and repair the line themselves. They will repair the line if it is on their "side".


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Did they say anything about the water whips, Protech? Are they going to make us responsible for everything, even behind the meter?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

house plumber said:


> Did they say anything about the water whips, Protech? Are they going to make us responsible for everything, even behind the meter?


Great question.:thumbsup:


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

Rock is correct. Our city will tell you that they stub out their sewer taps 5ft from the curb and I hold them to that. If I can not find the tap within the 5ft and there are cables between the 5ft and the curb, then I call them to demand they locate it instead of me. They will then come out and run a camera from the manhole into the tap and mark the end with green paint. I agravate the piss out of them but I will not back down. :devil:
Just wait till I damage my vehicle from one of their potholes. You do NOT want to be the city official that I call.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

we are usually responsible for the sewer to the main and for the water to the property line here. But when they run new sewers they will run a sewer stub to the property line and reconnect there. Occasionally leads to mass confusion for the H.O. but it is what it is .


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

I know over here on the west coast sewers and water whips are still maintained by the county or city from center line of main to point of connection at the property line. Sounds like Polk County is looking for other means of income. 

Wouldn't the sewer line from property line to main fall into a underground utilities contractors License??


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

ESPinc said:


> I know over here on the west coast sewers and water whips are still maintained by the county or city from center line of main to point of connection at the property line. Sounds like Polk County is looking for other means of income.
> 
> Wouldn't the sewer line from property line to main fall into a underground utilities contractors License??



Aren't we already licnesed for that type of work? I remeber questoins about that type of stuff on the test.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Aren't we already licnesed for that type of work? I remeber questoins about that type of stuff on the test.


Ya, but around here in my area the county wants an underground utilities licensed person to run sewer and water mains, They just can't make the tie ins to our lines, may be an insurance thing, who knows!!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

They can contract with who ever they like, but under Florida law you are allowed to pull permits and do that type of work with a state certified plumbing license.



ESPinc said:


> Ya, but around here in my area the county wants an underground utilities licensed person to run sewer and water mains, They just can't make the tie ins to our lines, may be an insurance thing, who knows!!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Here most are manhole to manhole with one that I recall going from the edge of the right of way for the road, some are from the curb are sidewalk as well but 95% are manhole to manhole.

One rare city that does it from the curb will respond to a clogged sewer and watch while the drain cleaner cleans the line counting how far the cable is pushed in the line before it clears and they will reimburse the homeowner for the line cleaning if it clears after the curb. They also offer free camera inspections.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I just think it's BS that it's the property owners responsibility to repair something they didn't install, don't own, and isn't even on there property.

It would be like your neighbors tree falling on your house and not only are you responsible for the repairs on your house, but you are also responsible for replacing his tree!


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

in seattle it is yours including the tap to the main 28' down don't matter permits fees street use flagger curb concrete panels and asphalt 20' either side it is all yours to pay for.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

PlumberDave said:


> in seattle it is yours including the tap to the main 28' down don't matter permits fees street use flagger curb concrete panels and asphalt 20' either side it is all yours to pay for.


 
Same here in Colorado.


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Most of the cities here in southeast missouri take responsiblity from manhole to manhole. The ho is responsible all the way to the main including the throat of the wye at the tap. Which is a bunch of crap, and why I don't replace sewers. The plumber here is responsible for cutting the street and replacing it, and if the fitting on the main is broken it is the plumbers problem to fix it not the cities. Which means we are fixing the main for the city. This makes replacing a sewer very expensive for the ho. On the other hand the water dept. takes responsibilty from the water meter back to the main no matter where the the water meter is located outside. If the water meters are inside they put a curb cock on the property line and they take responsibility from the curb cock to the main. Now if the water dept. takes responsility for thier line why doesn't the sewer dept do so. 
When I was in maryland the county took responsiblity up to the property line. After that it was the ho's problem which is the way it should be. 
Bottom line protech I agree with you. Its a bunch of crap. I think you have to pay a 2000 dollar tap fee when hooking up to thier mainline and then have to pay taxes to help maintain thier sewer line but yet if the line breaks on the lateral on city property the ho has to pay for the repair and the street replacement. Its a crock.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Protech said:


> 12/17/09 I'm sent out to camera inspect a residential sewer. <snip>
> 
> This is posted just so you know.
> 
> ...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You know, just because they file an ordinance saying they aren't responsible doesn't mean that they aren't.


I did a call in Lakeland about a month ago where the HO's house had been flooded by sewage 4 times in the past decade. Why? The water dept (city of Lakeland) has an 8" terracotta sewer line that's cracked all to h3ll 1 lot down stream of her. Every time the roots re-invade the line she gets everyone's sewage up hill of her in her house. They (and samco plumbing services) have neglected to tell her about this. The city or her old plumber would just keep coming out and cabling the line without fixing the actual problem. I called the city and explained the situation and they said they will jet it but not repair the line. 

I handed her my attorneys’ card. They should be opening the letter any day now :thumbup:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Protech said:


> You know, just because they file an ordinance saying they aren't responsible doesn't mean that they aren't.
> 
> No code regulations down in FL as to the placement of backwater valves when fixtures are lower than the next upstream manhole cover?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Not that I know of. I'll have to get back to you on that.



PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Protech said:
> 
> 
> > You know, just because they file an ordinance saying they aren't responsible doesn't mean that they aren't.
> ...


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## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

sewer and water services here in philadelphia are the responsibility of the homeowner, out to the mains. we have been fighting here to keep it that way because (A) It's plumbers work and (B) If the water and sewer authority took over responsibilitiy, water and sewer bills for EVERYONE would double or triple. Right now only HO's with problems pay. And did I mention it's plumbers work. PS. our permit fees cover the cost of street restoration performed by the street's dept. we only need to tamp and cold patch when finished.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Protech said:
> 
> 
> > You know, just because they file an ordinance saying they aren't responsible doesn't mean that they aren't.
> ...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks for the code citation. On that part about the other fixtures not going threw the back water valve, would you install multiple valves with floor cleanout covers or run 2 systems with 2 building drains (1 with a BW valve)? 

Come to think of it, I don't think the manhole cover was any higher than the tubs. I think standing head broke the wax rings and flooded from there.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

If our city saw us tearing up their asphalt and crap like that we plumbers here would probably land in jail. They are very strict about stuff like that. You better even make sure the outriggers on the backhoe do not damage the roadway either.


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## gusty60 (Oct 21, 2008)

Easements generally refer to privately owned land with a utility etc. running through it. Right of ways are generally public owned land. Are you sure it's an easement?


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Watch the video and you can see for yourself.



gusty60 said:


> Easements generally refer to privately owned land with a utility etc. running through it. Right of ways are generally public owned land. Are you sure it's an easement?


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## gusty60 (Oct 21, 2008)

Protech said:


> Watch the video and you can see for yourself.


 I watched the video. An easement would be a recorded document that applies to that particular lot. It looked like it was in a right of way. Some cities here say HO is responsible up to the tap even if in the right of way. Others say they will fix everything within the right of way. Wish they would get together and figure out one standard way. If it is in an easement, it is ususally up to the homeowner here.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I guess the proper term would be the right of way then. It's between the sidewalk and the street.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> I guess the proper term would be the right of way then. It's between the sidewalk and the street.


 We call it the neutral ground......its the citys but the property owner maintains the landscape such as grass cutting. Any utilities in the neutral ground area is repaired by the provider of the utility.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Protech said:


> Thanks for the code citation. On that part about the other fixtures not going threw the back water valve, would you install multiple valves with floor cleanout covers or run 2 systems with 2 building drains (1 with a BW valve)?
> 
> Come to think of it, I don't think the manhole cover was any higher than the tubs. I think standing head broke the wax rings and flooded from there.


Protech,

We generally run two, 1 for the main building and 1 w/BF w/cleanout for the outdoor pool baths.


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