# Outside sillcock tied into kitchen's cold



## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

Here an outside sillcock is roughed to the left of a roughed kitchen sink. The pex will meet with the required shutoff and tied into the cold line of the sink. 

The homeowner now can winterize the sillcock from the cabinet.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Thats a pretty high sillcock. but should you have ran it in an exterior wall? sure the cock is freeze proof... but the pipe in the wall isn't, and unless you can drain it, it may freeze. What I did at my parents house was throw a valve in, with a tee and a drain down so my dad could get all the water out of the line. The cock is in the garage...


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

Flyout95 said:


> Thats a pretty high sillcock. but should you have ran it in an exterior wall? sure the cock is freeze proof... but the pipe in the wall isn't, and unless you can drain it, it may freeze. What I did at my parents house was throw a valve in, with a tee and a drain down so my dad could get all the water out of the line. The cock is in the garage...[/QUOT
> 
> Glad for your response. It wouldn't hurt if the cock was lower. However it sits level and with the inside ball valve off and sill cock open it can drain out the extra water that would expand and potentially hurt the piping.
> 
> It was ran in the exterior wall yes but pipe insulation was put around it. I agree that a cabinet will be put in front of that wall and may raise concern about access .


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

I would pitch that pipe and add a ball valve with bleeder..But if it breaks what a night mare.. 
You should of went straight outside from the cabinet.


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## BC73RS (Jan 25, 2014)

Is it grading towards the outside? I've seen this missed and no matter what some water gets trapped and freezes and pushes a solder joint apart. Grading a frost free hose bibb is good practice too. Fixed half a dozen the last winter because this was over looked.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

vinpadalino said:


> I would pitch that pipe and add a ball valve with bleeder..But if it breaks what a night mare..
> You should of went straight outside from the cabinet.


This


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## indianasbest (Feb 5, 2014)

Fail!


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Sorry dude, insulation will only help until it's all at the freezing point. Vinny is correct. This must be done again. Aren't you an apprentice? Where is Jman?


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## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

I would have drilled it in nest to stud behind cold line and tied it in on finish. have done that on several jobs.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

While I agree that this is not the most ideal situation and I would have come straight out the back of the cabinet and out, under Ma code it would be approved, our code states that if plumbing is installed in an outside wall it is the PLUMBERS responsibility to protect from freezing 









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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Trial and error, that how we learn 
Now you know how to handle it next time


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

indianasbest said:


> Fail!


 Not a plumber here...


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

redbeardplumber said:


> Sorry dude, insulation will only help until it's all at the freezing point. Vinny is correct. This must be done again. Aren't you an apprentice? Where is Jman?


Look I'm the j man , it's under code and legal. Homeowner approved , it will stay


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

Leach713 said:


> Trial and error, that how we learn
> Now you know how to handle it next time


Yes I agree explaining to HO that behind cabinet is best


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> While I agree that this is not the most ideal situation and I would have come straight out the back of the cabinet and out, under Ma code it would be approved, our code states that if plumbing is installed in an outside wall it is the PLUMBERS responsibility to protect from freezing
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Thank you sir !


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

indianasbest said:


> Fail!


Legallegallegallegallegal


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

indianasbest said:


> Fail!


Who the hell are you 
No intro no comment


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Why even discuss this just make sure the insulating contractor puts the insulation on the outside side of the wall ,heat from the house will keep it from freezing. If not you will be back. Perfectly legal I would put some stud guards in just for safety.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> While I agree that this is not the most ideal situation and I would have come straight out the back of the cabinet and out, under Ma code it would be approved, our code states that if plumbing is installed in an outside wall it is the PLUMBERS responsibility to protect from freezing
> 
> View attachment 31412
> 
> ...


typo in the code book lol.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Dpeckplb said:


> typo in the code book lol.


I downloaded our code book on my tablet, for some reason there is a bunch of misspelled words. Lol

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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> I downloaded our code book on my tablet, for some reason there is a bunch of misspelled words. Lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


 Ours is the same way. You should see our trade apprentice work books. I think they were made by grade 3 students. So many typos and contradicting paragraphs.


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

As long as the state doesn't have to hire a full time editor!!


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

I agree with suggestions to run it straight back with no in-wall offset. I'd personally run it inside the kitchen cabinets after installation if its exterior location is that critical. Also, using pipe insulation on a pipe in an outside wall also insulates it from the warm side...... something to consider. If insulating a line as such be sure to keep all the insulation on the cold side and none separating it from the warm side, a good trick is to do such sections in sheet foam and take measures to eliminate 100% of cold side drafts. At my previous home I did this in one spot and put high and low 3" x 10" heating grills in that wall cavity, the lower one being concealed in the toe kick of my laundry sink cabinet.

PS: you've been given good suggestions here, why you're being pizzy and defensive at a poor installation is a sign of someone who's too stubborn to learn to improve & better themselves; perhaps you'll get over it, perhaps you won't. You're being your own worst enemy here, and the homeowners going to be the one to suffer. That installation might fly in a warm location, but not anywhere with a real winter ( you've not noted your region in your profile so we can gauge the weather conditions it will experience, but you have noted freeze protection so that's what I'm running with). It also assumes the homeowner will actually winterize, and that offset sure doesn't allow for easy replacement in the inevitable instance that they don't. If it went straight back from the kitchen sink I'd say 'fill Yer boots', but the offset isn't even kept flush to the inside wall to maximize insulation behind it. 

* If you live in a zone with a lite-beer version of winter where a sweater will be the heaviest precaution that people require please excuse my tirade.*


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

CaberTosser said:


> I agree with suggestions to run it straight back with no in-wall offset. I'd personally run it inside the kitchen cabinets after installation if its exterior location is that critical. Also, using pipe insulation on a pipe in an outside wall also insulates it from the warm side...... something to consider. If insulating a line as such be sure to keep all the insulation on the cold side and none separating it from the warm side, a good trick is to do such sections in sheet foam and take measures to eliminate 100% of cold side drafts. At my previous home I did this in one spot and put high and low 3" x 10" heating grills in that wall cavity, the lower one being concealed in the toe kick of my laundry sink cabinet.
> 
> PS: you've been given good suggestions here, why you're being pizzy and defensive at a poor installation is a sign of someone who's too stubborn to learn to improve & better themselves; perhaps you'll get over it, perhaps you won't. You're being your own worst enemy here, and the homeowners going to be the one to suffer. That installation might fly in a warm location, but not anywhere with a real winter ( you've not noted your region in your profile so we can gauge the weather conditions it will experience, but you have noted freeze protection so that's what I'm running with). It also assumes the homeowner will actually winterize, and that offset sure doesn't allow for easy replacement in the inevitable instance that they don't. If it went straight back from the kitchen sink I'd say 'fill Yer boots', but the offset isn't even kept flush to the inside wall to maximize insulation behind it.
> 
> If you live in a zone with a lite-beer version of winter where a sweater will be the heaviest precaution that people require please excuse my tirade.


Okay good thought pattern and suggestions. I first would like to say me posting on here is for things to be held up to be constructively critical. Pictures throw out the chance to build a case study. Suggestions and ideas presented to me are best and most effective through relationships already established. Typing only a single critical word without even posting an introduction is erroneous and throws off other suggestions IMHO. 

I do like the idea of just keeping in cabinet but in the wall just seemed to make sense at the time to complete rough. But aesthetics are important to.. i agree the holes should've been brought flush for packed insulation behind it. Interesting point about taking care of 100% cold drafts areas...


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

You are kinda asking for trouble , especially if you have to depend on someone else to insulate that line. 

Can you stub it straight out from under cabinet to under window ? 
If so you cut the chances of any freeze issue


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

Cal said:


> You are kinda asking for trouble , especially if you have to depend on someone else to insulate that line.
> 
> Can you stub it straight out from under cabinet to under window ?
> If so you cut the chances of any freeze issue


I agree it's trouble boulevard however homeowner pointed at it that's where he wanted it. I wish I had made suggestion of going behind as others have recommended. 

The homeowner is generaling the job so he'll pack insulation. The only thing I can do is make it crystal clear how easy it is to winterize by going in the cabinet and shutting it off. Is it inevitable that one would forget , perhaps. I can only take the chances , it is what it is.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

If it ever breaks I would cut off and leave dead in the wall. Then install new one right threw kitchen cabinet.


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## CaberTosser (Mar 7, 2013)

natem1986 said:


> I agree it's trouble boulevard however homeowner pointed at it that's where he wanted it. I wish I had made suggestion of going behind as others have recommended.
> 
> The homeowner is generaling the job so he'll pack insulation. The only thing I can do is make it crystal clear how easy it is to winterize by going in the cabinet and shutting it off. Is it inevitable that one would forget , perhaps. I can only take the chances , it is what it is.


If it ever does split in the wall the subsequent one can be run in the cupboard. (Edit : looks like vinpadalino beat me to that by a few minutes, whats that saying about great minds?.... ) Thanks for taking my suggestion well, I was trying not to be too obnoxious with it 
What area is the house in? Just to get a gauge on the weather.


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

vinpadalino said:


> If it ever breaks I would cut off and leave dead in the wall. Then install new one right threw kitchen cabinet.


Good solution right there !


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

CaberTosser said:


> If it ever does split in the wall the subsequent one can be run in the cupboard. (Edit : looks like vinpadalino beat me to that by a few minutes, whats that saying about great minds?.... ) Thanks for taking my suggestion well, I was trying not to be too obnoxious with it
> What area is the house in? Just to get a gauge on the weather.


It's a good solution no doubt .. It's on the back of the house in a kitchen on exterior wall.


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

natem1986 said:


> The homeowner now can winterize the sillcock from the cabinet.


Except they won't. You know why? Because of all the dam vases and rusty air freshened cans and still-wrapped sponges and rat poison and spilled soap and ants and rotten banana peel that missed the trashcan that's stored under the sink for some reason and rags and towels and paint brushes and maybe a dead cat that snuck in there and ate the rat poison. 

But maybe the first year they'll remember to winterize it.


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## natem1986 (Dec 29, 2013)

Plumbersteve said:


> Except they won't. You know why? Because of all the dam vases and rusty air freshened cans and still-wrapped sponges and rat poison and spilled soap and ants and rotten banana peel that missed the trashcan that's stored under the sink for some reason and rags and towels and paint brushes and maybe a dead cat that snuck in there and ate the rat poison.
> 
> But maybe the first year they'll remember to winterize it.


Maybe the first year but if I send an early Christmas card and then I get a call, i can be really friendly and ask if they did indeed winterize it...


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

natem1986 said:


> I agree it's trouble boulevard however homeowner pointed at it that's where he wanted it. I wish I had made suggestion of going behind as others have recommended. The homeowner is generaling the job so he'll pack insulation. The only thing I can do is make it crystal clear how easy it is to winterize by going in the cabinet and shutting it off. Is it inevitable that one would forget , perhaps. I can only take the chances , it is what it is.


 Understood !


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