# Wrong Flapper??



## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

Hey Guys quick question. My wife came home today she works in a small Dr's Office. She said they had a plumber in today because one of their commodes didnt flush well not enough power it is 26 or 28 yrs old and apparently the plumber said it was the wrong flapper for the tank and changed it. I had been in there a cpl weeks ago and they asked me to look at it because the DR's handyman had just replaced the flapper. It seemed fine didnt let water by opened and closed just fine sealed up. No it didnt flush great but like I said it is 28 yrs old. Can a flapper make it flush better if it can its a new one on me.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

It depends...

With a 1.6 timed flapper you might get a good flush every other time on a 3.5 toilet...

And yes some toilets are picky about what flapper goes on them...


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Some do close faster than others and as Redwood said, you can mess up an old-style toilets flush by putting on a newer timed flapper.


It may flush better now but I doubt it flushes MUCH better. 



Paul


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

It's all about the timing.......


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Gone are the days of one flapper fits all.


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

it didnt have a float or anything on it so I wouldnt think it would matter but it did have an upside down cone shape on top of it that the chain attatched to it wasnt flat with the chain on the end.........this matters.......how????


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## plumbob78 (May 8, 2009)

I dont see how a new flapper would help that old of toilet. It probly needs a good flushing with acid to clear calcium IMO


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

beyond the timing thing style for the different commodes as well as the seat and horn contact, Wolverine Brass's "Big Orange" flapper will not work with all flush valves because the horn is longer/deeper and most. Last week had an issue with a Kohler gasket below the flush valve curled so much as to cause running by the flapper.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

That's a real common problem with the Kohler flush valve gasket.
I usually give them a trim with the razor knife just to make sure its not going to bring me back...:thumbup:


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

rickmccarthy said:


> it didnt have a float or anything on it so I wouldnt think it would matter but it did have an upside down cone shape on top of it that the chain attatched to it wasnt flat with the chain on the end.........this matters.......how????


Generally a flapper is a flapper but the last twenty years have given the mfgrs a chance to prove us wrong.

Could it be an old Mansfield or (the name escapes me now but it was similar)
The arms were longer and stiffer than your typical rubber flapper? With a bit of styrofoam built into it?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Miguel said:


> Generally a flapper is a flapper but the last twenty years have given the mfgrs a chance to prove us wrong.
> 
> Could it be an old Mansfield or (the name escapes me now but it was similar)
> The arms were longer and stiffer than your typical rubber flapper? With a bit of styrofoam built into it?


Sounds like a Crane flapper to me.


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

Plumbob That is exactly what I said well at least I am not crazy like I said It sealed just fine didnt run at all and I watched it a few times. I would have been concerned with it closing to fast which wasnt the case it seemed good to me I dont see how a flapper can improve the flush that much

It was just recently replaced so it was a aftermarket flapper I believe the commode was a American Standard if I remember correctly...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

rickmccarthy said:


> Plumbob That is exactly what I said well at least I am not crazy like I said It sealed just fine didnt run at all and I watched it a few times. I would have been concerned with it closing to fast which wasnt the case it seemed good to me I dont see how a flapper can improve the flush that much
> 
> It was just recently replaced so it was a aftermarket flapper I believe the commode was a *American Standard* if I remember correctly...


Oh those suck no matter which flapper you put in them...
Those older Plebe & Cadet models were some of the worst flushing toilets ever made...:yes:


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

mmmm What he said.

Yeah, OK . . . um

If you can get Master Plumber parts get a 214H Hornet (do you have a Fergies nearby) and keep the flapper chain (the Hornet chain is all plastic) as taught as possible. On those POS Plebes you have to really "bounce" the trip lever to get the right flushing action. *sigh* Tough to train people how to flush a toilet but . . .

better you than me, bro.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I added a picture in my post above from the 1st edition of the MaP Report showing how bad they really were...

Yea I have copies of each one saved...
Great sales tool when you show someone the test figures on their toilet...
May I suggest a new Toto Drake II?
I assure you your flushing problems will be over...

Your toilet didn't flush good the day it was made and 10 years later you think I'm going to improve it?:laughing:


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks Redwood I appreciate it. This is what I have been trying to explain to these people. I guess they asked around until they got the answer They wanted cause they paid the guy for the flapper I just told my wife that when it doesnt work call the flapper guy not me


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

I guess I am dreaming of old times but didnt the old crane toilet flapper have a piece of styrophone in middle of flapper that used to come off and get stuck in the hole between the tank and bowl and almost stop the water flow .In simple terms the old crane flappers used to come apart, we dug the styrofoam out of place between tank and bowl


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Replace the toilet! or find a new doctor. Be willing to change with the times, or get "old medicine". Think sulpher for the clap!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

retired rooter said:


> I guess I am dreaming of old times but didnt the old crane toilet flapper have a piece of styrophone in middle of flapper that used to come off and get stuck in the hole between the tank and bowl and almost stop the water flow .In simple terms the old crane flappers used to come apart, we dug the styrofoam out of place between tank and bowl


Yep that used to happen...
It would either be floating around in the tank or, stuck in the rim...


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Could you hook me up with those files? That's a great sales technique!



Redwood said:


> I added a picture in my post above from the 1st edition of the MaP Report showing how bad they really were...
> 
> Yea I have copies of each one saved...
> Great sales tool when you show someone the test figures on their toilet...
> ...


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Protech said:


> Could you hook me up with those files? That's a great sales technique!


Yep!


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