# Tub/Shower Valve Installation



## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

This valve installation was a little tricky. It was a valve really meant to be mounted inside a 2x6 wall and barely fit inside a 2x4 one. It also had to be a valve that didn't have mounting brackets physically part of it, so I had to make sure whatever I did to mount it was solid because it was a hefty valve too. The opposite side of the wall still had sheetrock so that limited my options for mounting. On top of that, there were vents on either side of the valve so I couldn't run boards all the way across. In the end, I notched 2x4's to fit some 1/2" plywood, mounted the plywood to the 2x4's, mounted the valve to the plywood plus the drop ell for the tub, and dropped the whole thing in the wall behind the tub. Fit like a glove, but was an absolute pain. Perhaps there was an easier way but it seemed like the best way at the time. What's the most trouble you've had to go through to get a valve set?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Ut Oh...
The new guy posted pictures of his work...
Here come the hounds...:laughing:

Wear a thick skin and you'll be alright...:yes:

Looks 1/2 decent...

I wouldn't have used steel strap over the copper though...


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

Redwood said:


> Ut Oh...
> The new guy posted pictures of his work...
> Here come the hounds...:laughing:
> 
> ...



Hey, it's a plumbing community to talk shop. I figured I'd throw myself out there and see what happens. And both steel straps are on the actual brass valve itself. No worries there. ☺


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Snowyman800 said:


> And both steel straps are on the actual brass valve itself. No worries there. ☺


Oh.. Okay... Hard to tell in the pic...

We'll see if you'll ever do it again by tomorrow night...:laughing:

Just remember whatever you post here has to pass IPC, UPC, Canadian, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, NYC, Chicago, and a few other code...:laughing:


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

You notched the shower head in like that bro-definitely a plumber-he's got my vote
Edit-to answer your question,
A double to single handle valve conversion with no access to the back-using a cover for the old handle holes of course. Right through a 2" cement chicken wire bomb shelter of a tub wall. 
I've also replaced many sweat valves through the front.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

1. Does that valve have stops? It better, or you need to have shut offs on the hot and cold lines. 

2. The valve looks offset, too far to the right (back wall) instead of being centered. Could be the angle of the photo. 

3. Why the hell is the distance between the valve and spout so long for a bathtub? If I'm sitting in the tub, I'm prolly going to have to stand up to reach the valve to turn it on/off. I need to be able to easily reach the valve from a sitting position inside the tub.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

Cajunhiker said:


> 1. Does that valve have stops? It better, or you need to have shut offs on the hot and cold lines.
> 
> 2. The valve looks offset, too far to the right (back wall) instead of being centered. Could be the angle of the photo.
> 
> 3. Why the hell is the distance between the valve and spout so long for a bathtub? If I'm sitting in the tub, I'm prolly going to have to stand up to reach the valve to turn it on/off. I need to be able to easily reach the valve from a sitting position inside the tub.


The valve does have integral stops. I'm also quite confident the valve is dead center of the tub. Or maybe a 1/16" off. Or an 1/8". Or a 1/4". But it is exactly where it is. 😃 And either way, they would have to get up to use that particular valve, the tub has a funny corner and is meant to actually be sat in from the other direction. The opposite wall has its own valve with a slide bar. That's how they wanted it the setup for it.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

KoleckeINC said:


> You notched the shower head in like that bro-definitely a plumber-he's got my vote
> Edit-to answer your question,
> A double to single handle valve conversion with no access to the back-using a cover for the old handle holes of course. Right through a 2" cement chicken wire bomb shelter of a tub wall.
> I've also replaced many sweat valves through the front.


That sounds like it definitely sucks. If I ever run into anything like the first one you said, I'll be sure to post pictures! Thanks for the vote too. 👍


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## Michaelmiagi (Jan 8, 2016)

-How did you secure the upper part of your "mount" in the wall?
-can't believe they have that outlet box so close to the valve. My inspectors would have a conniption fit.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Michaelmiagi said:


> -How did you secure the upper part of your "mount" in the wall?
> -can't believe they have that outlet box so close to the valve. My inspectors would have a conniption fit.


And our inspectors will fail you without an intro.


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

That cold water line from the 90 to the valve looks like it's way under minimum length for uponor.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Snowyman800 said:


> That sounds like it definitely sucks. If I ever run into anything like the first one you said, I'll be sure to post pictures! Thanks for the vote too. 👍


Look out for the 10" 3-handle replacements where the middle handle operates the tub waste. There are still quite a few of them in Mesta Park and Heritage Hills.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

marc76075 said:


> That cold water line from the 90 to the valve looks like it's way under minimum length for uponor.


The fittings are almost butted up right against each other if that's what you mean. There's a bit of a gap between the two fittings in the pipe. I used to say that one advantage crimp fittings had over Wirsbo is that you can butt the fittings right against each other no problem. With a little planning, though, you can do the same thing with Wirsbo too. I haven't had any problems doing it that way either. I try not to do it too much unless I absolutely have to. Otherwise, I don't use a piece shorter than 3" when making connections.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

plbgbiz said:


> Look out for the 10" 3-handle replacements where the middle handle operates the tub waste. There are still quite a few of them in Mesta Park and Heritage Hills.


Hey, Heritage Hills. I've done a little work there before. But that was back when I first started as a plumber, so I don't know it really counts. Most of our work is in Nichols Hills, a few in Gaillardia, and a couple in Oak Tree with a few scattered around OKC every now and then. But I'll keep that advice in mind. Every now and then my boss has done some service work there in Heritage Hills. He'll probably give me that job if it comes up.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Snowyman800 said:


> He'll probably give me that job if it comes up.


Trust me on this one...

If you run into a 3 handle mixer where the center handle controls the drain stopper you should stop and talk to someone about it before you screw the pooch...:yes:

Once screwed the pooch cannot be unscrewed...

As in...

Sorry bout dat...
It's time to remodel the bathroom...


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

.....


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

And definitely agreed with Red, if you can stop by Mr Biz location.... will be worth every second.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

Gargalaxy said:


> .....


Alright, I will admit I've never actually looked at that chart until someone mentioned the minimum length earlier. So 3 1/2" for 3/4" from now on. From my thinking, I thought the minimum length was only to keep you from getting the head inside a fitting, so you don't damage the head or crack a fitting. One guy told me he cut a piece too close and got the head inside a brass fitting and snapped the head. I cracked a 1" plastic fitting myself when I cut it too close. I didn't cut the piece longer than I usually do and didn't think about it even though the head on a 1" is noticeably bigger. But I've also never made that mistake again. 😃 So today I emailed Uponor and asked them specifically the reason behind the minimum length because I couldn't find it anywhere. I'll have to wait on an answer. Or just call them.


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

Snowyman800 said:


> The fittings are almost butted up right against each other if that's what you mean. There's a bit of a gap between the two fittings in the pipe. I used to say that one advantage crimp fittings had over Wirsbo is that you can butt the fittings right against each other no problem. With a little planning, though, you can do the same thing with Wirsbo too. I haven't had any problems doing it that way either. I try not to do it too much unless I absolutely have to. Otherwise, I don't use a piece shorter than 3" when making connections.


You already have your torch out, why not solder a 90 on and then the adapter? Seems like more of a pain to get the fittings that close, plus you'd be SOL if that blew and caused damage. Insurance would blame the manufacturer until uponor told them you didn't follow installation guidelines.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

marc76075 said:


> You already have your torch out, why not solder a 90 on and then the adapter? Seems like more of a pain to get the fittings that close, plus you'd be SOL if that blew and caused damage. Insurance would blame the manufacturer until uponor told them you didn't follow installation guidelines.


Valid point. It's not much of a pain to get them that close, though. Which, honestly, is why I did that. I actually did this valve over a year ago. But in future, I'll be sure to suck it up and solder that 90° in there. Or at least a brass 90°, that has to be better. We don't usually put tub spouts in, so the torch isn't always out. Almost every house we do has a separate shower and tub.


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

i always solder 90s out of the valve with 1' of copper out of the 90s and strap it so the valve is mounted solid. i also run copper to the shower head for the same reason. if i have to run pex to the shower head, i sweat 1' of copper to it to make it solid. pex to a drop ear is a floppy sloppy crappy install. just my opinion.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i always solder 90s out of the valve with 1' of copper out of the 90s and strap it so the valve is mounted solid. i also run copper to the shower head for the same reason. if i have to run pex to the shower head, i sweat 1' of copper to it to make it solid. pex to a drop ear is a floppy sloppy crappy install. just my opinion.


And there's another trick too. We don't usually do shower heads either. Almost every shower we do has a slide bar set up. So center of shower for slide bar, has all the backing in it for the slide bar to mount solidly to the finished wall, valve generally 8" off center closer to the door for accessibility and the drop ear for the wall elbow 8" off center the opposite way, or equal distance off center depending on shower layout. Which means, it would be quite a bit of work just to get it all in copper, to get up and over around everything. I suppose you could do with soft copper if you wanted, but then you'd be losing some of the rigidity of hard copper, which I suppose is still better than PEX if that's what you're going for. But we don't usually stock soft copper on the truck and only use it on certain applications when we do have it. OR you could use rigid copper and solder at least 4 fittings in to get over. I guess that's not that bad. Valve set up with rigid copper itself wouldn't be too much trouble and I could understand that. But I've never really worked with copper extensively since I've always worked with PEX. You know, I have to hand to the old school plumbers who used to and perhaps still do work with cast iron drains and copper pipe for entire residential jobs. I don't know of anybody personally who does such things now but I will admit plumbing is way easier than it used to be with recent innovations in the plumbing industry. Otherwise scrawny guys like me would have died, crushed by cast iron in a crawl space and withered away. 😃


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

Finished product usually looks like this.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

And I hesitate in posting this picture for I fear the criticism that will undoubtedly come 😅 but this is generally what it looks like in the wall. Normally they don't have a diverter but this one they did, one goes to the drop ear and the other goes to another drop ear for a rain head from the ceiling.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

Well, holy crap. I guess you could do it all in copper if you're the real deal. This isn't mine (obviously), just some random searching. I think it's a company from Texas, JB-Plumbing is the name.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Snowyman800 said:


> Finished product usually looks like this.


Just my opinion, not digging the height of the handheld supply and mainly I would have kept the slide bar out of the decorative tile.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Snowyman800 said:


> What's the most trouble you've had to go through to get a valve set?


http://www.plumbingzone.com/showthread.php?t=42850


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

chonkie said:


> Just my opinion, not digging the height of the handheld supply and mainly I would have kept the slide bar out of the decorative tile.


I know, it does look a little funny there. Handheld supply is 42" high, same height as the valve. I would think it looks better than way than it would be moving it anywhere else. But I'm also open to suggestions. As for the placement of the slide bar itself, we always talk to the homeowner first if we can on the placement of the slide bar. Since we can essentially put it anywhere and everyone's preference is different, we can make it lower or higher for them. Almost every shower we do has the decorative tile like that and usually the slide bar will span it, so I keep the bottom just below it and run the top above it wherever it ends up if the homeowner doesn't care. But the decorative tile band in this picture was longer than the slide bar itself and had little ledges of sorts on the top and bottom of the tile, so I either had to go real low or real high. It's not something we generally run into, though. If the placement works for the homeowner, it works for me.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

I hear ya, stuff doesn't always work as planned, and sometimes the HO wants some odd things. That's a pretty big decorative tile band with border going on there.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Snowyman800 said:


> .... So today I emailed Uponor and asked them specifically the reason behind the minimum length because I couldn't find it anywhere. I'll have to wait on an answer. Or just call them.


I posed that same question to Uponor. They gave two reasons.

1. Without enough distance between fittings, the pipe might not fully compress at the end of the fitting thus increasing the risk of failure.

2. Keep from re-expanding pip that is already made up.

I guess adding protection of a fitting would be a good #3.


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## Snowyman800 (Jan 7, 2016)

plbgbiz said:


> I posed that same question to Uponor. They gave two reasons.
> 
> 1. Without enough distance between fittings, the pipe might not fully compress at the end of the fitting thus increasing the risk of failure.
> 
> ...


I could see #1 happening. The only time I ever put fittings that close is when I make sure to expand both ends of the pipe fully before inserting fittings into them. I expand both sides evenly and then install the fittings. If you tried to do a piece that short with one side already made up, I could definitely agree with #2 and #3, because you wouldn't be able to get the head all the way in there properly and you run the high chance of opening the end that's already connected or you could damage the fitting and head. It is something I try to avoid unless I absolutely have to do it.


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