# sanitary tee for cleanout on air gapped drain



## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

Is this allowed under ipc? This is under a commercial kitchen sink. There is a 90 about 6ft down stream then another 6ft of copper draining into an air gapped floor drain. I say its a bunch of poppycock. These other guys thought it was OK. One said your only not allowed to do that on 2" cast iron which made no sense to me. What say you?


----------



## Roto-Rooter (Jan 31, 2015)

I have no idea. As a Drain Cleaner it looks good to me!!!!!


----------



## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

The thing that gets me is that there was room for a wye and st45. I'm not saying I haven't done something similar when room was an issue but if you have the height why would you do that?
On another note, whoever soldered that needs to take a little more time to make sure they don't drip down the front of the fitting, especially on something exposed like that.


----------



## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

:thumbsup: I know right...Thank You. As to why a wye and 45 were not used was a combination of cheap and being a moron.


----------



## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

NyNick said:


> Is this allowed under ipc? This is under a commercial kitchen sink. There is a 90 about 6ft down stream then another 6ft of copper draining into an air gapped floor drain. I say its a bunch of poppycock. These other guys thought it was OK. One said your only not allowed to do that on 2" cast iron which made no sense to me. What say you?
> 
> 
> View attachment 75361
> ...


If the indirect waste is 30in or more horizontally it should be trapped.


----------



## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

Commercial kitchen sinks require an air gap. The floor drain has a trap. To add a trap to a line over 30inch means that you would be double trapping the fixture which is not allowed ..right?


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

indirect drains dont need tobe trapped, as long as the drain into a receptacle that has a trap and the proper air gap maintained..


----------



## Gunnar (Jan 5, 2014)

If the indirect fixture revives organic food scraps I requires a trap... Here anyway I'm in ontario


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

new york is a screwed up place ....there is no state plumbing license..each municipality has there own along with there own take on the codes...just in my county( nassau) there are over 45 towns and villages that have there own building depts...most reciprocate to plumbing licenses from the 3 major towns where you took your test and got your certificate of competency from , but some of the villages dont and you have to take another test to get there license...and each town and village want a fee for there license, and then more fees for permits....oh what fun it is....and lots of $$$$ just to keep on top of licenses to be able to work in each area...politics at its best...


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

NyNick said:


> :thumbsup: I know right...Thank You. As to why a wye and 45 were not used was a combination of cheap and being a moron.


While a tee on it's back or side is against code and a wye and street 45 would fit just fine and provide better flow, ever try cabling upstream through the top of a wye? Can be done, but it's a PITA. A tee on its back with a cleanout would be much better. 

However in this case I'd have a hard time seeing a reason to cable upstream. 

One other thought on cabling this drain, you could cable it from the air gap, but depending on room and how it was secured could be a pain, a cleanout just below the sink can be a nice option.


----------



## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

NyNick said:


> Commercial kitchen sinks require an air gap. The floor drain has a trap. To add a trap to a line over 30inch means that you would be double trapping the fixture which is not allowed ..right?


That's what I read in the IPC. Code #802.2 30in or total developed lenth 54in.
Here in NJ we use the NSPC. Code #9.2.3 exceeds 10ft total developed lenth.


----------



## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

No comment


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

*copied from the 2010 nys *
*INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCIL , but local municipalities can differ from this code....

SECTION 802 INDIRECT WASTES* *

802.1 Where required.* Food-handling equipment and clear-water waste shall discharge through an indirect waste pipe as specified in Sections 802.1.1 through 802.1.7. All health-care related fixtures, devices and equipment shall discharge to the drainage system through an indirect waste pipe by means of an air gap in accordance with this chapter and Section 713.3. Fixtures not required by this section to be indirectly connected shall be directly connected to the plumbing system in accordance with Chapter 7. *802.1.1 Food handling.* Equipment and fixtures utilized for the storage, preparation and handling of food shall discharge through an indirect waste pipe by means of an air gap. *802.1.2 Floor drains in food storage areas.* Floor drains located within walk-in refrigerators or freezers in food service and food establishments shall be indirectly connected to the sanitary drainage system by means of an air gap. Where a floor drain is located within an area subject to freezing, the waste line serving the floor drain shall not be trapped and shall indirectly discharge into a waste receptor located outside of the area subject to freezing. *

Exception: *Where protected against backflow by a backwater valve, such floor drains shall be indirectly connected to the sanitary drainage system by means of an air break or an air gap. *802.1.3 Potable clear-water waste.* Where devices and equipment, such as sterilizers and relief valves, discharge potable water to the building drainage system, the discharge shall be through an indirect waste pipe by means of an air gap. *802.1.4 Swimming pools.* Where wastewater from swimming pools, backwash from filters and water from pool deck drains discharge to the building drainage system, the discharge shall be through an indirect waste pipe by means of an air gap. *802.1.5 Nonpotable clear-water waste.* Where devices and equipment such as process tanks, filters, drips and boilers discharge nonpotable water to the building drainage system, the discharge shall be through an indirect waste pipe by means of an air break or an air gap. *802.1.6 Domestic dishwashing machines.* Domestic dishwashing machines shall discharge indirectly through an air gap or air break into a standpipe or waste receptor in accordance with Section 802.2, or discharge into a wye-branch fitting on the tailpiece of the kitchen sink or the dishwasher connection of a food waste grinder. The waste line of a domestic dishwashing machine discharging into a kitchen sink tailpiece or food waste grinder shall connect to a deck-mounted air gap or the waste line shall rise and be securely fastenend to the underside of the sink rim or counter. *802.1.7 Commercial dishwashing machines.* The discharge from a commercial dishwashing machine shall be through an air gap or air break into a standpipe or waste receptor in accordance with Section 802.2. *802.1.8 Elevator pit drain or sump pump. *All elevator pits for elevators that have Firefighters’ Emergency Operation shall have a drain or sump pump in accordance with ASME A17.1 Section 2.2.2.5. The drain or sump pump discharge shall be into the sanitary or storm drainage system through an indirect waste connection. The elevator pit discharge system is not required to include an oil separator, except as required by section 1003.4. *802.2 Installation.* All indirect waste piping shall discharge through an air gap or air break into a waste receptor or standpipe. Waste receptors and standpipes shall be trapped and vented and shall connect to the building drainage system. All indirect waste piping that exceeds 2 feet (610 mm) in developed length measured horizontally, or 4 feet (1219 mm) in total developed length, shall be trapped. *802.2.1 Air gap. *The air gap between the indirect waste pipe and the flood level rim of the waste receptor shall be a minimum of twice the effective opening of the indirect waste pipe. *802.2.2 Air break.* An air break shall be provided between the indirect waste pipe and the trap seal of the waste receptor or standpipe. *802.3 Waste receptors.* Every waste receptor shall be of an approved type. A removable strainer or basket shall cover the waste outlet of waste receptors. Waste receptors shall be installed in ventilated spaces. Waste receptors shall not be installed in bathrooms or toilet rooms or in any inaccessible or unventilated space such as a closet or storeroom. Ready access shall be provided to waste receptors. *802.3.1 Size of receptors.* A waste receptor shall be sized for the maximum discharge of all indirect waste pipes served by the receptor. Receptors shall be installed to prevent splashing or flooding.


----------



## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

It might technically be compliant but in a three compartment sink a lot of straws and weird things get stuck in that part of the drain. It makes getting at the portion a little easier and will definitely pass food and water through it without a problem.


----------



## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

Nathan901 said:


> It might technically be compliant but in a three compartment sink a lot of straws and weird things get stuck in that part of the drain. It makes getting at the portion a little easier and will definitely pass food and water through it without a problem.


I agree, Every indirect waste I have done I never double trapped. I would like to know is why it's written in the code. They have to have a reason for it. Then again there is lots of things in the code I shake my head at.


----------



## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)




----------



## czplumbing (Nov 24, 2014)

I always thought air gap directly under kitchen sink strainer for commercial and cast Iron has always be code out here in Suffolk county Ny. I guess you can use copper if building inspector is ok with it but he may want cast-iron. Theory behind air gap directly under sink strainer is if they have any food in sink defrosting or what ever they are doing cleaning it etc.... , no chance of a clogged drain pushing water back into sink contaminating food. so if you have a run of pipe before you air gap that run may get back up at some point and push back into sink


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I havent done any commercial out in suffolk, just residential, but I cant see how your gona hold up cast iron under a 3 bay sink without major support, and the tail pieces are gona scream..LOL..


----------



## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

czplumbing said:


> I always thought air gap directly under kitchen sink strainer for commercial and cast Iron has always be code out here in Suffolk county Ny. I guess you can use copper if building inspector is ok with it but he may want cast-iron. Theory behind air gap directly under sink strainer is if they have any food in sink defrosting or what ever they are doing cleaning it etc.... , no chance of a clogged drain pushing water back into sink contaminating food. so if you have a run of pipe before you air gap that run may get back up at some point and push back into sink


I've never seen cast iron used for indirect waste piping for commercial kitchen drains in suffolk or nassau or anywhere.. You sure about that? Its always copper and pvc where are you going to find cast iron below 2" for sink drains?how would you support it?


----------



## czplumbing (Nov 24, 2014)

support it with kindorf. I never seen pvc. Out here on the east end only came across cast-iron.


----------



## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Did one with cast about a year ago. Thought I had a pic but it's gone. I support with split rings and floor/ceiling plates all the time.

I do have one coming up where they deleted the floor sink I was supposed to drop into. The nearest fs is about 12' away. I was wondering if I need to trap it.


----------



## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

Not legal !!!


----------



## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> While a tee on it's back or side is against code and a wye and street 45 would fit just fine and provide better flow, ever try cabling upstream through the top of a wye? Can be done, but it's a PITA. A tee on its back with a cleanout would be much better. However in this case I'd have a hard time seeing a reason to cable upstream. One other thought on cabling this drain, you could cable it from the air gap, but depending on room and how it was secured could be a pain, a cleanout just below the sink can be a nice option.


You may want to go grab your glasses. There is a clean out on the end. Just sayin.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

MACK ATTAKK said:


> You may want to go grab your glasses. There is a clean out on the end. Just sayin.


Never said there wasn't...


----------



## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> indirect drains dont need tobe trapped, as long as the drain into a receptacle that has a trap and the proper air gap maintained..


*802.2 Installation*. All indirect waste piping shall discharge through an air gap or air break into a waste receptor or standpipe. Waste receptors and standpipes shall be trapped and vented and shall connect to the building drainage system. *All indirect waste piping that exceeds 2 feet (610 mm) in developed length measured horizontally, or 4 feet (1219 mm) in total developed length, shall be trapped.

Only in New York.
*


----------



## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Not here. A sanitary tee can not lay on its side, back. 22.5, nor 45 degrees as there is no direction of flow. Tee wey ( or combo as most call it) can lay on its side


----------



## ace4548 (Feb 10, 2015)

I know In Wisconsin local waste more then 30" in length needs to be trapped. I'm guessing since there is an air gap, the double trap code doesn't apply. I believe the reasoning for trapping is not to prevent sewer gas, but to prevent bacteria and mold that could grow inside the pipe to be blocked at the trap, and not come by food or anything that would be for consumption. We have a few exceptions, but anything with food, over 30" here.


----------



## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Bill said:


> Not here. A sanitary tee can not lay on its side, back. 22.5, nor 45 degrees as there is no direction of flow. Tee wey ( or combo as most call it) can lay on its side


I did one where the grease trap was under the 3-compartment sink leaving just enough space for a santee and 1/4 bend to get my air gap. A combo would have never worked. What would you have done? (no sarcasm)


----------



## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

89plumbum said:


> I did one where the grease trap was under the 3-compartment sink leaving just enough space for a santee and 1/4 bend to get my air gap. A combo would have never worked. What would you have done? (no sarcasm)


A header using wyes and 90 degree elbows in DWV copper.


----------



## Buddy (Oct 25, 2009)

I recall reading in my code book that the reason for the restricted length of pipe before the trap whether it be 24 or 30 in. is because of the foul smell that would naturally start to occur once the wall of the pipe gets the buildup of whatever starts clinging too it and then the person using the sink will smell it


----------



## bowta360 (Jan 17, 2016)

Buddy said:


> I recall reading in my code book that the reason for the restricted length of pipe before the trap whether it be 24 or 30 in. is because of the foul smell that would naturally start to occur once the wall of the pipe gets the buildup of whatever starts clinging too it and then the person using the sink will smell it


That's the exact reason why it has to be trapped. At least that's what the reason is in Texas. Just learned about this recently going through all the classes required for my journeyman. Makes sense to me


----------



## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

newyorkcity said:


> A header using wyes and 90 degree elbows in DWV copper.


That may have worked NYC, but the 90s would have to be sweeps, costing more valuable space. I see it like a trade off, both plumbing and health inspectors want that air gap and will not care about the tees. Especially since most plumbing inspectors have been in a similar situation before, they usually understand, except for the super ones!:laughing:


----------



## Jessedog11 (Feb 6, 2016)

If The drain is 2 inches and more the 6 feet in overall length I believe you need a vent and trap before the indirect air gap "connection".


----------



## Absaroka Joe (Mar 30, 2013)

No vent. No trap. Never drain with a tee from vertical to horizontal.


----------



## BC73RS (Jan 25, 2014)

Absaroka Joe said:


> Never drain with a tee from vertical to horizontal.


:thumbsup:


----------

