# what's the best gravity flush toilet?



## rocksteady

i have a customer that is plugging up BRAND NEW kohler cimarrons, with his poop! i don't think the champion flushes any better but how is the toto class 5? i don't think anyone around here carries them. they don't want to go with a pressure assisted toilet due to the noise.








paul


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## Cal

Gerber Avalanche ,,,, I do believe it received the latest # 1 rating of all gravity flush toilets .

Have installed several ,,,,, THEY ARE GREAT !!

Cal


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## Ron

We always install the cadet3 never had a return call on them.


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## Redwood

The problem pooper will pretty much get any toilet even the best of the best... We've got these customers with medical conditions usually heavy duty pain meds and they are pushing out "beer can sized turds" that are tougher than an oak log...

Your best option is getting a good toilet and a little consumer education like slicing and dicing with a piece of coathanger wire before the flush...

That failing the Caroma Toilet has the biggest trapway of all...


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## Redwood

Ron The Plumber said:


> We always install the cadet3 never had a return call on them.


I had a call where a plumber had just installed a Cadet 3 days before...
Customer was on heavy duty meds and plugged it up 1st use...
I'm siting there with a 1 week guarantee on toilet augers...

I'm gonna loose!

I have the slice and dice discussion with the customer and it worked!
No callback!


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## trick1

We've had great luck with the Toto Power Gravity and G-Max series toilets. Remember the old Kohler Rialtos and Pillow Talks? The worst flushing 1 Piece toilets in my opinion. They made me despise installing one piece toilets for fear of numerous callbacks. Then I found the Toto Ultimate (G-Max Series) I installed it for a client and held my breath. That was 6 years ago and it flushes better than a lot of two piece closet combinations.

To date we have 250+ Toto toilets in the field. Only one person clogged it....once......three years ago.


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## Proud Plumber

Redwood said:


> I had a call where a plumber had just installed a Cadet 3 days before...
> Customer was on heavy duty meds and plugged it up 1st use...
> I'm siting there with a 1 week guarantee on toilet augers...
> 
> I'm gonna loose!
> 
> I have the slice and dice discussion with the customer and it worked!
> No callback!


:laughing: Did the discussion involve a coat hanger? :laughing:

in my drain cleaning days you could tell the owner they were on heart meds before they told you.


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## grandpa

They don't tell you in apprentice school that you have to also be a diplomat to be a plumber! This is right up there with having to explain to the lady that called you about a urine smell in the bathroom that her elderly husband has aiming problems!


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## Redwood

Proud Plumber said:


> :laughing: Did the discussion involve a coat hanger? :laughing:
> 
> in my drain cleaning days you could tell the owner they were on heart meds before they told you.


It absolutely did involve the coat hanger!

Knowing what meds were involved was easy...
He's sitting there with an oxygen tube in his nose with the visiting nurse setting up one of those mega meds trays with 4 compartments for each day for 7 days...

Made him up a nice turd cutter out of a coat hanger and put a screw on the side of the vanity for him to hang it on...

About a year ago I had a callback on one of our other guys that I went to for a terminal cancer patient... 
There was a shelf in the bathroom loaded with laxatives and enemas...
The guys wife was crazy about the plugged toilet...
She commented on how she was learning so many new things involved with caring for her husband...

She got a lesson in what to look for in buying a toilet auger and how to use one...

What's the point with doing jobs like this...
All were doing is kicking someone financially who is down and in return getting 2 or 3 callbacks on a job that was hardly worth doing the first time... Teach them a bit of self sufficency and move on... Hopefully, the lesson sticks and you get rewarded with no callback.

Bear in mind I'm not talking about a poor flushing toilet. I'm talking about people that are on heavy duty meds that will clog any toilet including the best of the best that are capable of flushing 900 - 1,000 hrams of solids per flush...

If I went to one of these calls and they had a Cadet or Wellworth they would be upgraded...


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## Ron

It there on meds they should have a power flush toilet and nothing less.


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## Redwood

I think you are over estimating the abilities of pressure assisted toilets...

The only failsafe one I see would involve incorporating one of these into the design of the toilet bowl...










Puree anyone?


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## Ron

I had a customer long ago, he'd plug the toilet up over and over again, yes he was on meds, took out the gravity and installed a PF, lost source of income over that job, never heard from him since.


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## Redwood

I will say I have augered clogged pressure assisted toilet too...


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## Ron

I never have.


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## user4

Make a trip to Canada, you can still buy 3.5 gal. toilets there.


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## Protech

Get a caroma. They make toto look affordable, but they are unplugable.
If they plug the coroma, then install a basin where the toilet was with a grinder pump. Put one of the "vacuum valve" toilets in that you see on yachts on top of the basin. :laughing:


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## para1

Killertoiletspider said:


> Make a trip to Canada, you can still buy 3.5 gal. toilets there.


 

The only way to go! Hey, while your up there can you get this perscription filled for me...:laughing:


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## Redwood

para1 said:


> The only way to go! Hey, while your up there can you get this perscription filled for me...:laughing:


Time to go pee in the cup....


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## pzmember

maybe insinkerator needs to make a crapper. then the electricians can make money too, putting a gfci behind every toilet. id call it the "dung chummer 5".:thumbup:


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## Redwood

:laughing: LMAO on the dung chummer 5!
Will there be an evolution to upgrade to?


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## rocksteady

thanks for all the info. i'll have to look around and see what's available localy. i have augered pressure assisted toilets and i'm certain that the trapways aren't any bigger, probably smaller, than a class 5 toilet. 

yes, this guy is on meds and he plugged it up on the first use. it was a very easy auger but i cant move in with them. 






paul


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## Wiser

Evolution - Grind more, smell less!


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## pzmember

Redwood said:


> :laughing: LMAO on the dung chummer 5!
> Will there be an evolution to upgrade to?


yes, the dung chummer evolution series 6, the de-fecalator :2guns:
ve vill make #2 our # 1 priority. hasta la vista poopy.


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## Cal

Telling you ,,, That's how I found the Gerber Avalanche ,,,,, Older person on HEAVY meds ,,, was stopping up EVERY TIME !! I put in the Avalnche and the only calls I get from them are "Thank yous "

Cal


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## Wrenchboy

*Outhouse*

It may sound cruel but,,,

You could build them an outhouse with a space heater,,,,

Pump out that sucker once a month,,,,

[Hey,! it worked for Grampa and Grandma din it?

Dave Doyle
[Sorry Guys,couldn't resist]


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## DiRtY pLuMbEr

I have a Toto Ultramax in my bathroom. I was a Toto Rep for 1-1/2 years but have been a plumber for 9. I have always installed Toto and will always believe in Toto's product. Here is what alot of other people had to say about them. Kohler Class Five V. Toto GMAX - Bathrooms Forum - GardenWeb
If you go with a Toto, try to get one that has the SanaGloss option. The Drake SG (CST744SG#01) is in my opinion one of Toto's best toilets and it is also a HET (high-efficiancy toilet) meaning it is available in 1.28GPF.


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## Wethead

Wrenchboy said:


> It may sound cruel but,,,
> 
> You could build them an outhouse with a space heater,,,,
> 
> Pump out that sucker once a month,,,,
> 
> [Hey,! it worked for Grampa and Grandma din it?
> 
> Dave Doyle
> [Sorry Guys,couldn't resist]


That would be ECO-friendly


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## WestCoastPlumber

I would say a kohler cimarron for residential, I have their ADA compliant Cimarron in a commercial building, no complaints and without the noise of a power flush.

I had a customer on meds, the stoppage was always in the closet bend, never the toilet, so keep line carry in mind when you pick a toilet and make sure it will make the drain. no good to pass the toilet and get stuck in the old cast drain :furious:


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## PlumberDave

Just a month ago heavy meds home for terminally ill. No poo Toto drake SO darn hard 20min with an auger just trying to drill. Pulled the john 1 poo totally filled the top of the trap 2"+/- dia had to cut it out with a hacksaw blade. The smaller ones just stuck oblong in the trap and so darn hard not wood but close.


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## ROTOR KING

DiRtY pLuMbEr said:


> I have a Toto Ultramax in my bathroom. I was a Toto Rep for 1-1/2 years but have been a plumber for 9. I have always installed Toto and will always believe in Toto's product. Here is what alot of other people had to say about them. Kohler Class Five V. Toto GMAX - Bathrooms Forum - GardenWeb
> If you go with a Toto, try to get one that has the SanaGloss option. The Drake SG (CST744SG#01) is in my opinion one of Toto's best toilets and it is also a HET (high-efficiancy toilet) meaning it is available in 1.28GPF.


what exactly is the sanagloss option?


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## Kyle181

im going tommorow to install my first toto drake for my wifes aunt and uncle who have been having problems with thier 15+ year old eljer toilet thats not quite keeping up any more


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## GrumpyPlumber

*Read the topic, went straight to the last page and can see my toilet of choice has been picked.*

*The drake flushes awsome.*

*Cimarrons have a good flush too, but they don't cover the bowl well.*


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## Kyle181

well the drake seems awesome so far , they are impressed and it is extremely quite


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## super plumber

Kyle181 said:


> well the drake seems awesome so far , they are impressed and it is extremely quite


the drake is the toilet i like to use, rarly a complaint :thumbsup:


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## Plumber

I liked the Kohler Wellworth and Highline series until they switched to the new flushing system. I'm stuck with Kohler, though, as we can't get Totos up here. Besides, Totos are expensive for my neighborhood.

Any other suggestions on gravity toilets?


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## Cal

Gerber Avalanche is actually rated #1 . Great toilet ,, and affordable 

Cal


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## Redwood

I've never rated any Gerber #1...


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## Cal

Redwood said:


> I've never rated any Gerber #1...



Well ,,, I guess that settles it . :no:


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## Plumbergunz

Gerber or Toto huh? I am looking for a new toilet to install for my customers as the Kohler Cimmeron which I have been installing for a few years now has changed design and quite frankly its horrible. What sold me on the Cimmeron in the first place was its large class 5 flush valve, and its tank to bowl bolting system, with the bolts clipping on the bottom of the tank it leaves two less holes that could ever leak in the future. Now the flush valve seems to be much smaller (i wouldn't think of it as a class 5 anymore) and rather than the bolts clipping they just hang on the mounting plate, thus if you are not extrmely carfull you can drop the bolts right down the bowl, or throat of the toilet! I would apreciate feedback on what toilets you guys like to install, class 5 preferably! As much as you can give would be great! Thank you!


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## Plumber

Plumbergunz said:


> Gerber or Toto huh? I am looking for a new toilet to install for my customers as the Kohler Cimmeron which I have been installing for a few years now has changed design and quite frankly its horrible. What sold me on the Cimmeron in the first place was its large class 5 flush valve, and its tank to bowl bolting system, with the bolts clipping on the bottom of the tank it leaves two less holes that could ever leak in the future. Now the flush valve seems to be much smaller (i wouldn't think of it as a class 5 anymore) and rather than the bolts clipping they just hang on the mounting plate, thus if you are not extrmely carfull you can drop the bolts right down the bowl, or throat of the toilet! I would apreciate feedback on what toilets you guys like to install, class 5 preferably! As much as you can give would be great! Thank you!


Kohler screwed up their Wellworth and Hiline by going to Class 6 or somesuchcrap. I'm not impressed by Class 5 or 6 flushes.

I just tried Western (after 20 years of ignoring it) and the 3" flapper chain was too short. pfffft. It worked if you hold the trip lever down.

I ordered the least expensive Toto ADA from a retail mart (195.00/each!) that has the normal 2" flapper. It's so bottom of the line it doesn't have a name.


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## LawGA.Winnelson

We sell several high performance flushing toilets....AS, Toto, Caroma, etc... We have found that Toto GMAX series seems to have the least issues, in fact none in the past 4 years. Toto is pricey, and if you are looking for best performance for the dollar, the AS Cadet 3 series is a good option.


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## ASUPERTECH

Cal said:


> Gerber Avalanche ,,,, I do believe it received the latest # 1 rating of all gravity flush toilets .
> 
> Have installed several ,,,,, THEY ARE GREAT !!
> 
> Cal


100% Couldn't agree more!!!:thumbsup:


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## user823

*Gerber is #1 for number 2!*



Cal said:


> Gerber Avalanche is actually rated #1 . Great toilet ,, and affordable
> 
> Cal


I have to agree with you 100%. I only stock Gerber toilets, the Avalanche and the Viper. Someone wants anything else I will get it, no guarantee.
Gerber Avalanche rated at 1000 grams.
Quiet flush
3" flush valve
2" fully glazed trap
Dual fed siphon jet
Powerful front rim jets:thumbup:


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## LawGA.Winnelson

I dont know too much about Gerber, as it is not a common toilet in the Atlanta market. I believe Gerber had some issues in this market 5 years ago or so and has not made a comeback. If mapp testing shows 1000 grams then it should be plunger free for sure. I am not a spokesman for any toilet, however I carry 4 lines of china(Western,Mansfield, AS, Toto). I believe AS has over 15 toilets in their lineup that meet that 1000 gm mapp testing. They have a broad price range which gives you options. However, if I was replacing a toilet in my house, it would be the Toto Drake. I have toured the plant here in GA, and seen the meeso (fake turd) testing and am convinced. Just remember this when selling this to the consumer.....Quality remains long after price is forgotten.


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## ILPlumber

I like the Avalanche. I really like the Toto but, they have been very hard for us to get in a timely manner. You can't sell what you can't get.


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## Plumber

Tried the Pro Flo ADA today. The flapper was 2" was good, but the float ball ballcock sucked. I replaced it with a 400a and their flapper with a Korky. The water spot was a little small (ADA, maybe), but the rim wash was impressive.

It had 2 stickers on it: one one the bowl and the tank. I spent 15 minutes getting those suckers off.

For 110.00, it was worth half that. Nexxxxt.....

I've got that Toto coming in on Tuesday---I'll see how it works.


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## duckky

Redwood said:


> I had a call where a plumber had just installed a Cadet 3 days before...
> Customer was on heavy duty meds and plugged it up 1st use...
> I'm siting there with a 1 week guarantee on toilet augers...
> 
> I'm gonna loose!
> 
> I have the slice and dice discussion with the customer and it worked!
> No callback!


you should only give poop advice and such when you have your poop certifications!


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## Redwood

duckky said:


> you should only give poop advice and such when you have your poop certifications!


WTF? :blink:


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## pauliplumber

I've had good feedback with the AS cadet 3. Flush doesn't look impressive, but they never seem to clog.


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## ASUPERTECH

duckky said:


> you should only give poop advice and such when you have your poop certifications!


Congrats... I rarely if ever actually laughed out loud at my computer:laughing:


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## Wethead

Redwood said:


> WTF? :blink:


he is a troll........we have established this a few other threads, even though he swears he is here to learn......


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## gladerunner

We recently rehabed a bar/resturant and installed 8 toto toilets with g-max flusing systems. Toilets were spec. by designer. problem's with clogging right away. changed flappers to fluidmaster universal 3" adjustable flappers turned up to maximum flush. Seems to have helped so far.


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## Plumber

gladerunner said:


> We recently rehabed a bar/resturant and installed 8 toto toilets with g-max flusing systems. Toilets were spec. by designer. problem's with clogging right away. changed flappers to fluidmaster universal 3" adjustable flappers turned up to maximum flush. Seems to have helped so far.


For a bar/restaurant, outhouses are the only way to go.

I would've done Sloan, but what the hey.


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## gladerunner

We were only replacing existing fixtures, no repipe. Removed power flushes. Go figure.


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## ASUPERTECH

gladerunner said:


> We were only replacing existing fixtures, no repipe. Removed power flushes. Go figure.


I just could 7 Gerber ultra flushes out of a commercial sight. Replaced with Gerber Avalanches! Maintenance guys didn't like working on the pressure assist. I can't imagine why any one wouldn't go with a pressure assist. I took one from the job and put it in the hall bath. People love it and think it proper that there buddy the plumber has a "Tim The Tool Man" toilet. arghhh arghhh arghhh.:thumbup:


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## Plumber

I bought my first ADA Toto today....bottom of the line with a normal flapper for 190.00....yikes. Took 5 days to get here , too.

Now I have to find a mark...anyone want to buy a Toto toilet?


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## user823

ASUPERTECH said:


> I just could 7 Gerber ultra flushes out of a commercial sight. Replaced with Gerber Avalanches! Maintenance guys didn't like working on the pressure assist. I can't imagine why any one wouldn't go with a pressure assist. I took one from the job and put it in the hall bath. People love it and think it proper that there buddy the plumber has a "Tim The Tool Man" toilet. arghhh arghhh arghhh.:thumbup:


I think you answered your own question. It's because they constantly need to be worked on. I'm installing the Gerber Avalanche for commercial applications now, I like them. Selling the Vipers too as my builders grade. I've yet to find anything that flushes better. But.. never tried the Toto's, can't get them here. I wonder why none of the major wholesalers here will sell them?


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## user823

LawGA.Winnelson said:


> We sell several high performance flushing toilets....AS, Toto, Caroma, etc... We have found that Toto GMAX series seems to have the least issues, in fact none in the past 4 years. Toto is pricey, and if you are looking for best performance for the dollar, the AS Cadet 3 series is a good option.


I don't want ANY issues with the toilets I install, I don't install the power flush unless someone begs for one, even then I won't guarantee them.:no:
AS Cadet anything is garbage imo. GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, they just are.


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## pauliplumber

ironranger said:


> I don't want ANY issues with the toilets I install, I don't install the power flush unless someone begs for one, even then I won't guarantee them.:no:
> AS Cadet anything is garbage imo. GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, they just are.


 Interesting, I've installed About 10-12 cadet 3's over the last couple years without any complaints yet. Was it the cadet 3 model that you've had problems with ? I know some previous models were pretty bad. Just curious, thanks..


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## plumb4fun

DiRtY pLuMbEr said:


> I have a Toto Ultramax in my bathroom. I was a Toto Rep for 1-1/2 years but have been a plumber for 9. I have always installed Toto and will always believe in Toto's product. Here is what alot of other people had to say about them. Kohler Class Five V. Toto GMAX - Bathrooms Forum - GardenWeb
> If you go with a Toto, try to get one that has the SanaGloss option. The Drake SG (CST744SG#01) is in my opinion one of Toto's best toilets and it is also a HET (high-efficiancy toilet) meaning it is available in 1.28GPF.


 I installed a Toto Drake today and the flush is very poor in my opinion, too short/fast. Also no swirl action. Going to leave a plunger next to that one!


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## ILPlumber

Here's one of the ones in my home.

It's the best flusher out there. It get's it gravity flush from the water tower. :yes: I despise tank toilets and would not put em in my house. I don't care what you put in there it's GONE.:thumbsup:


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## ASUPERTECH

plumb4fun said:


> I installed a Toto Drake today and the flush is very poor in my opinion, too short/fast. Also no swirl action. Going to leave a plunger next to that one!


No good man. You can't plung them well because of the wierd shape at the bottom of the bowl. It's like a oblong funnel.


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## ILPlumber

The toto does have a rather odd flush. Your kind of left with the feeling of "what, that's it" . But they do work quite well.


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## ASUPERTECH

ilplumber said:


> the Toto Does Have A Rather Odd Flush. Your Kind Of Left With The Feeling Of "what, That's It" . But They Do Work Quite Well.


never Cleaned One, But Like The Ideal Of The Sani-gloss Finish. 
they Do Make One Hell Of A Toilet Seat Though.
i Just Think That For The $$$$$$ There Better Bang For The Buck.


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## ASUPERTECH

I Heard From A Local Rep., That American Standard Is Pulling Out Of The Big Boxes!!!


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## solarman.net

We are fans of Toto . They have never been in the big box stores , Tehy don't plan to be . They are not "unstoppable " , but we have been pushing them for 7 yrs or so, and our call back rate has gone down consideraby


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## user823

pauliplumber said:


> Interesting, I've installed About 10-12 cadet 3's over the last couple years without any complaints yet. Was it the cadet 3 model that you've had problems with ? I know some previous models were pretty bad. Just curious, thanks..



It's American Standard, I don't want to ever install another one. Over the years I have had more problems with AS toilets compared to anything else. Cadet 3, Champion 4, come on, that should tell you right there they have problems. They just can't seem to get it right and imo they are Anti-Plumber friendly. The Champions were the dumbest design I have ever seen in my life! GARBAGE!!!!!!!!:furious:


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## JK949

grandpa said:


> They don't tell you in apprentice school that you have to also be a diplomat to be a plumber! This is right up there with having to explain to the lady that called you about a urine smell in the bathroom that her elderly husband has aiming problems!


Shop had that situation, tech didn't have the heart to tell her until the callback. Some learn the hard way.


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## JK949

plumb4fun said:


> I installed a Toto Drake today and the flush is very poor in my opinion, too short/fast. Also no swirl action. Going to leave a plunger next to that one!


Dude, it's not supposed to swirl, that's wasted energy. It's designed to push turds with the most efficient use of water, blasting them through the trap.


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## JK949

Plumber said:


> I ordered the least expensive Toto ADA from a retail mart (195.00/each!) that has the normal 2" flapper. It's so bottom of the line it doesn't have a name.


704? We keep one of those on hand in case a tank cracks or something and we need to give away a toilet. Not as good as a Drake, but decent.


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## KratzerPlumbing

I put a Toto in the shop and with 50 plumbers taking their morning dumps those things never backed up. A kohler rep gave us on of his to try and we gave it to one of the dispachers for a wedding present. (install was extra)


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## Protech

I just ran across this and I thought it would be a good addition to this discussion. Notice our friend the Toto Drake all the way on the right.


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## Protech

The full article can be viewed here:
http://www.psdmagazine.com/pdf/Nov_Dec_03/26-29.pdf


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## Cal

That link shows that this test was done 2002 - 2003 ..


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## Protech

And?


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## Redwood

solarman.net said:


> We are fans of Toto . They have never been in the big box stores , Tehy don't plan to be . They are not "unstoppable " , but we have been pushing them for 7 yrs or so, and our call back rate has gone down consideraby


Yea, same here...
Quality is a good thing...
Along with a callback rate of less than 1%

Interestingly enough anybody care to guess which toilet John Koeller of Koeller and Company one of the 2 companies that do the testing for the MaP Report has installed in his house for a toilet?

http://www.allianceforwaterefficien..._MaP_Report_13th_Edition_Revised_02-16-09.pdf

I find it interesting because here is a guy that has Performance tested virtually every make and model toilet sold in the US and Canada. He could probably grab any toilet he wanted after testing and put it in his house for use knowing which toilet has the best flush there is and the worst. Getting also to see how the quality and bowl wash is too, but that is not graded in the MaP Report...



> All of which brings us to: What kind of toilet should you buy? It depends, says Koeller, whose back yard is crammed with new models for testing, but whose bathroom sports a Toto Ultra Max (MaP score: 700 grams!).http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/local/yorbalinda/article_932453.php


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## brad7596

mate those flushometers are a dieing breed down here!
they are a relic of the 1960s


we are down to 4.5lt full/3lt half flush toilets now as a trend towards saving water.


the only problem is that our 100 yr old sewer mains werent designed to match so now we are getting blockages galore and the stuff usually goes down the stormwater drain out to the bay! oops!


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## Cal

Protech said:


> And?



My point was that some company s have introduced new toilets since then .

Gerber for instance . I AM NOT taking away from Toto . Great toilet .

Gerber is ranked higher in the newer tests . I like Totos , Just have to drive A LONG WAY to get one here AND they are much more $ .

Customers don't like that . Besides the Gerber Viper and Avalanche are GREAT !

Cal


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## express

hey cal Vamac handles the toto. any of there stores new you?


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## Plasticman

toto's are longer than ordinary toilets. I tried installing one for a replacement and the back of the bowl hit the shoe mold on the wall. Had to trim the mold to fit the jon.


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## Cal

Yes there is a Vamac around us . Great supplier and I have gotten a few Toto s there . However it s pretty far ,, through some BRUTAL traffic ! Not cost effective OR good for my anger Management classes .

Thank you for the thought though


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## user823

Cal said:


> My point was that some company s have introduced new toilets since then .
> 
> Gerber for instance . I AM NOT taking away from Toto . Great toilet .
> 
> Gerber is ranked higher in the newer tests . I like Totos , Just have to drive A LONG WAY to get one here AND they are much more $ .
> 
> Customers don't like that . Besides the Gerber Viper and Avalanche are GREAT !
> 
> Cal



I don't think there is a better toilet made for the price and being a gravity flush than the Gerber Avalanche.:thumbsup:


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## Redwood

Plasticman said:


> toto's are longer than ordinary toilets. I tried installing one for a replacement and the back of the bowl hit the shoe mold on the wall. Had to trim the mold to fit the jon.


I guess that depends on the model you are using...
Many are actually shorter by my experience...

The 12" rough in Drake will actually fit down to a 10 7/8" rough in...

Compare the Toto Unifit models to toilets by other manufacturers. The results may surprise you...

I doubt you could show me an elongated bowl toilet by anyone but Toto that has a 14" rough in and sticks out only 28" from the wall...


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## PlumberWhoCares

We were using A/S Cadet III for our everyday toilet sale and frankly, we had zero callbacks. The Toto Drake has an excellent flush but the pricepoint is a little high for most of my customers. 

One of our suppliers suggested the Viper and after seeing it in action, we are going to put it to the test before offering to our customers. It is showing a lot of promise.


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## user823

PlumberWhoCares said:


> We were using A/S Cadet III for our everyday toilet sale and frankly, we had zero callbacks. The Toto Drake has an excellent flush but the pricepoint is a little high for most of my customers.
> 
> One of our suppliers suggested the Viper and after seeing it in action, we are going to put it to the test before offering to our customers. It is showing a lot of promise.



I've been using the Gerber Viper for some time now and have had no problems. I use the Viper for my builders grade toilet and upsale the Gerber Avalanche. 
After the fiasco with the Champion toilets I doubt I will ever sell another A/s Toilet again.:no:


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## PlumberWhoCares

ironranger said:


> I've been using the Gerber Viper for some time now and have had no problems. I use the Viper for my builders grade toilet and upsale the Gerber Avalanche.
> After the fiasco with the Champion toilets I doubt I will ever sell another A/s Toilet again.:no:


I'm with you on that. Even the new $100.00 callback promotion from Pro Champion won't get me to install a Champion. The $100.00 means nothing to me if I have a dissatisfied customer.

I was loyal to Kohler before they started offering a lot of poor performing builder's grade toilets. By the time we switched to A/S, Champions had already run their course. Though A/S was still heavily promoting them, our local supplier was quick to let us know they were having a lot of technical problems.


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## Redwood

PlumberWhoCares said:


> I'm with you on that. Even the new $100.00 callback promotion from Pro Champion won't get me to install a Champion. The $100.00 means nothing to me if I have a dissatisfied customer.
> 
> I was loyal to Kohler before they started offering a lot of poor performing builder's grade toilets. By the time we switched to A/S, Champions had already run their course. Though A/S was still heavily promoting them, our local supplier was quick to let us know they were having a lot of technical problems.


Considering all the dissatisfied customers on the Champion 1, 2, & 3 models...
I don't care much if they ever get it right...

My memory of getting burned is a little to long for that crap...
Maybe that's why I don't install Kohler, Briggs, Eljer, Gerber, & Mansfield either...
They have all placed junk before me while Toto never has...


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## user823

Redwood said:


> Considering all the dissatisfied customers on the Champion 1, 2, & 3 models...
> I don't care much if they ever get it right...
> 
> My memory of getting burned is a little to long for that crap...
> Maybe that's why I don't install Kohler, Eljer, Gerber, & Mansfield either...
> They have all placed junk before me while Toto never has...


I agree about the older Gerber toilets but... they sure were listening when they made the Viper and the Avalanche. I've never had a problem with these toilets and I install a lot of them.:thumbsup:


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## ASUPERTECH

Gerber are our top sellers here as well, Avalanche, Maxwell, then pressure assist. Sell about 5-10 of the colored toilets as well.


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## Protech

When ar people gonna learn? American standard is junk. What have they ever made that was good?



ironranger said:


> I've been using the Gerber Viper for some time now and have had no problems. I use the Viper for my builders grade toilet and upsale the Gerber Avalanche.
> After the fiasco with the Champion toilets I doubt I will ever sell another A/s Toilet again.:no:


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## Song Dog

I sold all my Vipers and now my supplier has round front and elong in the Avalanche (reg height). 
May sell only Avalanches?????, don't know

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## AlbacoreShuffle

rocksteady said:


> i have a customer that is plugging up BRAND NEW kohler cimarrons, with his poop! i don't think the champion flushes any better but how is the toto class 5? i don't think anyone around here carries them. they don't want to go with a pressure assisted toilet due to the noise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paul


Prunes and more fiber should fix this guy right up !:thumbup:


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## plumber666

Zurn!


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## mtfallsmikey

I'd try to find them an old A/S Roma toilet, early 70's vintage, with Vent-Away. Those things must have used 10 gal./flush.


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## Redwood

mtfallsmikey said:


> I'd try to find them an old A/S Roma toilet, early 70's vintage, with Vent-Away. Those things must have used 10 gal./flush.


Good Luck with that! :laughing:
I'll save the next one I pull out for you...
Don't hold your breath though I'm not seeing many of them anymore... :laughing:

I've moved on to the Toto Drake II as my toilet of choice since this old thread was started... :thumbup:


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## Richard Hilliard

www.*caroma*usa.com


Get ths toilet when medication is the issue with the diet


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## eddiecalder

Is it just the extra height that makes them work better?


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## crazygraves

eddiecalder said:


> Is it just the extra height that makes them work better?


After 27 years in the field mansfield out flushes them all.[email protected]


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## PlungerJockey

I install alot of Toto Drakes and can't complain


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## DesertOkie

I wish we had the good stuff here. All we get are Crane and proflowish stuff. They had never heard of a Gerber.


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## boilergrappler

Viper is our standard toilet. Avalanche is our upgrade. Gerber toilets have always been the best for us. Professional sold only I believe. Pretty sure you won't find one in the box stores:thumbup::thumbup:


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## RyanBrandon

A gravity flush system is probably the cheapest option for a toilet. The water in the tank is used to create the pressure for the flush and this is the gravity of releasing the water that allows water from the tank to flush into the bowl so that the bowl can be cleaned and waste can be taken away. The siphoning action is used to help clean the bowl and thanks to the lack of any other mechanic involvements, this is the quietest kind of flush that you can choose.

It is one of the oldest kinds of technology that is still used in toilets today and seems to be a timeless mechanism. As there are very few parts and no special machinery or mechanics, these kinds of toilets are very easy to maintain and repair and have very cheap running costs. The gravity flush system is used in one and two tank systems.


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## Tommy plumber

*Hello! Introduction Requested* 
An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/. 

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession) 

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field. 

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is. 

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## OpenSights

RyanBrandon said:


> A gravity flush system is probably the cheapest option for a toilet. The water in the tank is used to create the pressure for the flush and this is the gravity of releasing the water that allows water from the tank to flush into the bowl so that the bowl can be cleaned and waste can be taken away. The siphoning action is used to help clean the bowl and thanks to the lack of any other mechanic involvements, this is the quietest kind of flush that you can choose.
> 
> It is one of the oldest kinds of technology that is still used in toilets today and seems to be a timeless mechanism. As there are very few parts and no special machinery or mechanics, these kinds of toilets are very easy to maintain and repair and have very cheap running costs. The gravity flush system is used in one and two tank systems.


I don't understand...:blink:


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## chonkie

Hehe ... first post is a necropost and he doesn't even answer the actual question originally asked. Although I am glad he posted what he did because I, probably like many here, had no clue how a toilet worked nor did I know that this technology had been around for a long time. I thought gravity flush toilets were new this decade, so much for the hole in the ground in my room.


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## shockersfantom

Good Lord Almighty...let's hope that they are on medication! You should bill him monthly for ……….. on retainer!":laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## OpenSights

shockersfantom said:


> Good Lord Almighty...let's hope that they are on medication! You should bill him monthly for ……….on retainer!":laughing::laughing::laughing:


No intro? Yet another hack spammer... never ends.


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## FlashyD

First of al lI just ant to say thanks for asking the question 'What's the best gravity flush toilet' because this is how I actually found this forum, and then I want to say thanks again because I was really looking for the answer and there are some great answers here. So thanks guys.


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## Logtec

FlashyD said:


> First of al lI just ant to say thanks for asking the question 'What's the best gravity flush toilet' because this is how I actually found this forum, and then I want to say thanks again because I was really looking for the answer and there are some great answers here. So thanks guys.


Home Depot’s, house brand “Glacier Bay”
Is a great brand, theyre so underrated! sometimes you can get a complete toilet package for $89 CDN! it’s a great deal! 
Make sure you also get HD’s toilet installation service, for your new toilet. They’re putting a lot of expensive- ripoff plumbers/companies out of business. I think it’s about $150, so you can get a new gravity toilet, installed- one stop shopping for about $300 CDN.
Most plumbing companies can’t compete with these big box stores prices and installs


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## skoronesa

Mansfield Alto Elongated




https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/toilets/toilets-and-bidets/4539045


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