# CSST fire



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

We had a storm come through friday. Lightning hit the gas system on a clients house. It had been partially repiped with CSST and the lightning went to ground at a piece of the old steel system that had not been removed, resulting in a fire that caused damage to the structure but no injuries.


----------



## Flyin Brian (Aug 22, 2009)

slickrick said:


> We had a storm come through friday. Lightning hit the gas system on a clients house. It had been partially repiped with CSST and the lightning went to ground at a piece of the old steel system that had not been removed, resulting in a fire that caused damage to the structure but no injuries.


there was a c.s.s.t. fire a few years ago from wardflex i recall.


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

What was the source of the gas leak? was it steel pipe?


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> What was the source of the gas leak? was it steel pipe?


The CSST. It arced over to a old piece of steel nearby.


----------



## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

We must bond the CSST itself back to the panel...or bury 40' of ground and not a coil either.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Choctaw said:


> We must bond the CSST itself back to the panel...or bury 40' of ground and not a coil either.


That's what my electrician was telling me today, and still no guarantees. The grounding described by the manufactures is most likely not going to cut the mustard. I don't know about CSST. One bad hit and one good lawyer and we could go down faster than the Titanic.


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Man, I know a guy that strapped csst to a deck, to a gas bbq. Exposed on the outside of the band joist. Also, some csst in a fake downspout, with a lineset, electric, and pvc condensate drain, to an hvac unit in an attic.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Man, I know a guy that strapped csst to a deck, to a gas bbq. Exposed on the outside of the band joist. Also, some csst in a fake downspout, with a lineset, electric, and pvc condensate drain, to an hvac unit in an attic.


From what I have been reading about CSST related fires, If it is near duct work or any metal it may arc across.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Dam whats the odds of getting hit by lighting anyways


----------



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Dam whats the odds of getting hit by lighting anyways


According to the U.S. National Weather Service

The odds of being struck by lightning -- in your lifetime -- are 1 in 5,000. 

The odds of being struck in any given year: 1 in 700,000

I googled it. :laughing:


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

There are more rules to installing CSST than most guys realize. 

It's still fast. But if you use all the stuff to make it meet man. recommendations it get's pricey.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

CSST is all we use up here.... the manufacture is Gastite....I would say it is the fastest way to do gas piping even with the grounding... Time is money and yes this is a real money maker.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Matt said:


> There are more rules to installing CSST than most guys realize.
> 
> It's still fast. But if you use all the stuff to make it meet man. recommendations it get's pricey.


I am going to start calling in my electrican for grounding and bonding after seeing what I did today. Not good, not good. :no: That way I would feel half way covered.


----------



## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Last job I did with Gastite...I had the electrician do the bonding and had both him and the inspector sign off.......they were caught off guard, just a little.


----------



## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

Choctaw said:


> Last job I did with Gastite...I had the electrician do the bonding and had both him and the inspector sign off.......they were caught off guard, just a little.


Good for you. About a year ago I ran several hundred feet of Gastight on remodel job, most of it was 2psi. 1". I would hate to see what would happen if that stuff blew a leak. I talked to the electrician about bonding, then he got fired, then I talked to the next electrician then he got fired. Then I got fired.
Home owner was acting as general, revolving door of subs. I found out I was the third plumber. What's the statute of limitations on something like that anyway?:whistling2:


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

They have what they call the "Audie Murphy" clause. It goes " To Hell and Back".


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I've been telling you guys about this crap for two years now. some of you may be enlightened and stop using it but others will be willing to take the risk for the quick reward. All of which dissapears when you get the first bill from your lawyer. Quick and easy. Easy and quick. Pex will bite you on the ass too but that's another thread.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Unless of course you live in central FL where we have been installing it for more than a decade.



nhmaster3015 said:


> I've been telling you guys about this crap for two years now. some of you may be enlightened and stop using it but others will be willing to take the risk for the quick reward. All of which dissapears when you get the first bill from your lawyer. Quick and easy. Easy and quick. *Pex will bite you on the ass too but that's another thread.[/*quote]


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

*Counter Strike*

There is a C.S.S.T pipe I can't remeber if it's Trac or Gas tight? but it's coated in a Black jacket I believe is thicker to prevent the cross arching.
I nevered used it...Last job I did in C.S.S.T I worked for someone else at the time and the inspector said the C.S.S.T pipe had to be 2" away from anything metal (wires,duct pipe, and other c.s.s.t. pipe) I argued with him for about 20 mins. If it has to be 2" away from anything metal how would it pass the manifold ports are 1 1/2 center to each other. I also pointed out striker/nail plates and protective sleve for when you drill a stud they are only 1/2" space in them. (JUST PLAIN STUPID)

Since I been on my own. I just do it old school BLACK PIPE the whole job. Takes a little longer but it looks good...


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

3KP said:


> There is a C.S.S.T pipe I can't remeber if it's Trac or Gas tight? but it's coated in a Black jacket I believe is thicker to prevent the cross arching.
> I nevered used it...Last job I did in C.S.S.T I worked for someone else at the time and the inspector said the C.S.S.T pipe had to be 2" away from anything metal (wires,duct pipe, and other c.s.s.t. pipe) I argued with him for about 20 mins. If it has to be 2" away from anything metal how would it pass the manifold ports are 1 1/2 center to each other. I also pointed out striker/nail plates and protective sleve for when you drill a stud they are only 1/2" space in them. (JUST PLAIN STUPID)
> 
> Since I been on my own. I just do it old school BLACK PIPE the whole job. Takes a little longer but it looks good...


 
I think that is the Counter Strike brand of tubing.


----------



## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Ever since it was code to have it grounded (2-3 years ago) I switched back to iron. For smaller jobs it's not worth the hassle.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I've seen it blow a hole in iron before,tear the grass up and run up a tree knocking the bark off and eventually killing the tree. I've also seen it weld a washer to a dryer and blow a telephone up. 

i've seen a copper gas 2lb gas line get a hole blown out of it and ignited like a flame thrower.

I've seen a copper water line laying on a copper gas line get struck and they welded themselves together. The water pressure was way higher than the gas pressure. i got the call as water is coming out of my gas meter.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Yeah, but some are saying that CSST can be affected by a strike .5 mile away.


----------



## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Any electrician I've ever asked about grounding CSST gave me a look like this :blink:.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Any electrician I've ever asked about grounding CSST gave me a look like this :blink:.


Sounds like mine today. He thought I was talking about the water lines.


----------



## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

other than at my house i have not seen one piece of grounded csst. i,m a licensed electrician, also. i put the csst in years ago. then grounding came out. i grounded the same day. i don't do gas, for hire. repairs only. plus drain cleaning. which is where the real money is. at least here. breid...............:rockon:


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

That bit of #6 copper wire that is supposed to be the ground is a joke. A couple states tried to ban the crap but as usual, pressure from the lobbiests got that reversed because hey, who cares if a couple houses blow up? The odds that it won't are better. Around here, when it comes to grounding its all a matter of pass the buck. The electricians don't want to touch the stuff ( smart guys) and the plumbers/gas fitter can't.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I couldn't agree more with NHMaster. CSST is going to bite some poor unsupecting plumber in the rear-end real hard one day. Some homes down here in Palm Beach, FL have been hit by lightning which caused small holes in the home's CSST resulting in only gas leaks, no fires.....yet. Lawyers live for products like this. They study hard in law school to nail companies and individuals against the wall with products like these. And guys, it's not like we aren't aware of the dangers of CSST; it's been documented. So a skilled attorney would have a field day with you. http://WWW.nbnnews.com/NBN/new/downloads/CSST_Report_Aug07.doc


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Dam whats the odds of getting hit by lighting anyways


 
Not sure about Canada, but Florida, USA has the most lightning strikes of all the 50 states. I'm not a meteorologist but Florida's weather is very stormy with many lightning strikes. Maybe some of you Florida guys know why we have so much lightning.


----------



## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*tommy*

GOD HATES YOU. lol. breid.................:rockon:


----------



## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

The monkey is off our backs since Homer/Blowes sells the stuff....


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Choctaw said:


> The monkey is off our backs since Homer/Blowes sells the stuff....


 
If you mean to say that plumbers are relieved of liability from CSST that they install because box stores sell same product, I disagree.


----------



## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> If you mean to say that plumbers are relieved of liability from CSST that they install because box stores sell same product, I disagree.


I would expect nothing less............I said this in jest, but you knew that, right??????


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Choctaw said:


> I would expect nothing less............I said this in jest, but you knew that, right??????


 
Actually I didn't know that was a joke. Sometimes I'm slow on the uptake. What do you expect, I'm just a hack with a license. :laughing:


----------

