# pex



## PexPlumber (Dec 14, 2009)

You guys here are mostly pros at what you do, I know most of you gusy don't like pex, but does anyone know any other methods to running pex then tha "loop" I use the loop method mostly near the water heater loop them to each room so their are no joints under the house see all the leaks in that one spot where they are looped.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PexPlumber said:


> You guys here are mostly pros at what you do, I know most of you gusy don't like pex, but does anyone know any other methods to running pex then tha "loop" I use the loop method mostly near the water heater loop them to each room so their are no joints under the house see all the leaks in that one spot where they are looped.


 Yes its called running pipe the right way method and it involves properly sizing the main feeds and the branch's to each fixture. If your scared the fittings might leak wouldn't it make better sense to put the joints under the house instead of in the house?:laughing:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

PexPlumber said:


> You guys here are mostly pros at what you do, I know most of you gusy don't like pex, but does anyone know any other methods to running pex then tha "loop" I use the loop method mostly near the water heater loop them to each room so their are no joints under the house see all the leaks in that one spot where they are looped.


I believe what you are trying to say is a PEX home-run system or PEX home-run manifold. 

Mark


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> I believe what you are trying to say is a PEX home-run system or PEX home-run manifold.
> 
> Mark


 He is just running every bathroom or "room" homerun back to the water heater......he's doing nothing special other than putting in possibly more pipe and fittings for nothing. What would the point be in running two 3/4 seperate hot lines to back to back bathrooms and tying them together and connecting them to another 3/4 line? Your still feeding the two 3/4 pipes with one 3/4.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

About 6 years ago I was doing new resi houses , the county let us glue joints (CPVC) under the slab as long as they were pressure tested. The company I was working for has gone under but the underslab joints still remain. But for how long......


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> He is just running every bathroom or "room" homerun back to the water heater......he's doing nothing special other than putting in possibly more pipe and fittings for nothing. What would the point be in running two 3/4 seperate hot lines to back to back bathrooms and tying them together and connecting them to another 3/4 line? Your still feeding the two 3/4 pipes with one 3/4.


It is a manabloc system where all of your SOV are at the manifold (like an electrical panel). You actually have less fittings but much more piping. Vanguard was real big into it and their sales pitch was that when it leaked you just shut the one line down and the rest of the house was not affected. I always asked the Rep why they had to build a failure back-up into their system.

Mark


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks Tm. I was wondering the same thing myself. Obviously a rookie. Wasting a lot of time and material with all those home runs. Unless its a manabloc system, hot and cold main only, sized accordingly. Any other way is just well, its just well, its just well, its just well dumb.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> It is a manabloc system where all of your SOV are at the manifold (like an electrical panel). You actually have less fittings but much more piping. Vanguard was real big into it and their sales pitch was that when it leaked you just shut the one line down and the rest of the house was not affected. I always asked the Rep why they had to build a failure back-up into their system.
> 
> Mark


 Yeah Mark but he's not using manabloc. He's just manifolding like a typical slab job but running homeruns from each "room" NOT each fixture like a manabloc would be. His way you would be using just as many fittings but more pipe and he's putting the fittings for the manifold above the floor in the house so he can see the leaks.....what leaks? Why wouldn't you put the fittings in the crawlspace if you had no confidence in the system or even use it at all?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Thanks Tm. I was wondering the same thing myself. Obviously a rookie. Wasting a lot of time and material with all those home runs. Unless its a manabloc system, hot and cold main only, sized accordingly. Any other way is just well, its just well, its just well, its just well dumb.


And a circ pump is just out of the question with a manabloc and how my homeboy here plumbs his houses by his example. Piss poor design all the way around.:laughing:
I had a real smartass engineer that bought a parade home here(800,000 worth) He had a tankless water heater and automatic sensor faucets on his lavatories with a manabloc system. This was about 7 years ago......I told him i didn't like his system. He didn't like that and argued its state of the art. Then the problems started that he couldn't get hot water out of his faucets because they would turn themselves off before the hot water arrived. he suggested a circ pump and then I asked ....."well your a smart guy being retired from NASA...doesn't that make your manabloc system you paid for worthless"..........State of the art bullshit is what it was.....I made a point to tell the bastard that before I left. Also when his wife would fill the bathtub the K-faucet would only trickle.....:laughing: The flow switch was closing the water down so the tankless had time to heat it. Shoulda seen the look on his engineering face....priceless.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Yeah Mark but he's not using manabloc. He's just manifolding like a typical slab job but running homeruns from each "room" NOT each fixture like a manabloc would be. His way you would be using just as many fittings but more pipe and he's putting the fittings for the manifold above the floor in the house so he can see the leaks.....what leaks? Why wouldn't you put the fittings in the crawlspace if you had no confidence in the system or even use it at all?


So he is just running a standard manifold like what you would have in a slab home? I guess I don't understand his point then. I didn't have time to be confused at 20-years old.

Mark


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Let me explain something to you here Pexaholic, THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO RUN PEX!! 

And I see TWO EXTRA HOLES DRILLED THROUGH MY FLOOR!!

FAIL.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Ok people, we slammed him already on this setup, he was not asking for more slamming, lets not keep it up, schooling him is fine and dandy, but slamming is getting out of control, I think we all know the difference it what the two meaning are.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

What is Pex? 


Is this some kind of new pipe that plumbers are using?


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I myself do not like to "Loop" pex. I would much rather use a 90. Neater looking and it wont kink.

Plus the only pex fittings I bring under a house is 3/4" tees and 90's. I turn a 3/4 x 1/2 through the wall at the fixture. This way it stays 3/4 as long as possible, and I dont have to worry about having to have different fittings under the house.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I love pex, at least no worries about pin hole leaks like you see in copper pipes.


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## PexPlumber (Dec 14, 2009)

I do the loop for the fact the joints are in the house, I know, I know.. If something was to leak it would be in the house, but the shut off is right there in the house also on the 3/4 line.... I'm no pro by no means..... I'm far from it I am just a worker as of right now trying to get my feet wet, but for what I showed in the pics thats good for a rookie... also the loop is easier on me..


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

That's good for a rookie, who is being taught the wrong way man. Granted, I know that you are learning all this from someone else. you are being taught wrong man. Please lie to me, and tell me that it easier to run pex the way you did in that picture there, than to have a hot and cold main ONLY running under the house, teeing off to the fixtures?


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

PexPlumber said:


> I do the loop for the fact the joints are in the house, I know, I know.. If something was to leak it would be in the house, but the shut off is right there in the house also on the 3/4 line.... I'm no pro by no means..... I'm far from it I am just a worker as of right now trying to get my feet wet, but for what I showed in the pics thats good for a rookie... also the loop is easier on me..


PexPlumber, yes, for a rookie you have a good start.

*I personally would not like the leak in my house. I have wood floors as well and I would much rather a leak be under the house rather than on my wood floor or in my attic.*

There are several things that I see in your pictures that we are allowed to do. (ie: Our inspector does not require us to put a brass nipple off of the top of the water heater. Our inspector does not require us to put expansion tanks on all water heaters. Our inspector does accept PEX on a TPR line.) There are a couple of things that I saw that our inspector would frown upon. (ie: Electrical Disconnect, Extra Holes drilled/ rodent proofing).
Your work is not *THAT BAD* for a newbie. Some of these guys have what I would consider an excellent/ perfectionist workmanship code of work. It is not a bad thing by no means, it shows that the majority of the men here are professionals. Trust me, not only from a plumber's perspective, but a woman of the house as well... If it is working and _pretty_ when you leave... not only will I pay my bill with minimal bit**ing but I will call you back the next time. Code is just a minimal. Sharkbites do not mean that you do not pass code, but it _looks_ more professional and is a permanent fixture when soldered (in some oppinions). Keep going and don't give up PexPlumber. Don't let criticism stop you from trying.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Baahhh Humbug Christina. There you go again, being all nice and stuff.:laughing:





Christina said:


> PexPlumber, yes, for a rookie you have a good start.
> 
> *I personally would not like the leak in my house. I have wood floors as well and I would much rather a leak be under the house rather than on my wood floor or in my attic.*
> 
> ...


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## PexPlumber (Dec 14, 2009)

I understand that...I ran those pipes that way casue my uncle has me to, i would love to run the cold and hot and tee them off, but HE wants no joints under the house....


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

pexplumber, I need you to respond to the pm I sent you.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

PexPlumber said:


> I understand that...I ran those pipes that way casue my uncle has me to, i would love to run the cold and hot and tee them off, but HE wants no joints under the house....


You will likely work for or with a lot of different people in your career. Everyone will have a different way of how to do things. It is important you listen to them and decide for yourself which is the right and wrong ways to do things. Keep yourself open to all concepts but remember you are leaving your signature on every job you do. The most important tool on your truck is your Code book.

Mark


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I am going to make ageneral statement. This is not pointed at anyone.

He is trying. Yeah, the work looks crappy. But, he is trying. Maybe he is learning something here. 

What he does have:
1. The balls to post his work here for all the world to see. I read a lot of talk on here about how perfect we all are. BUT, I don't see many work photos.

PexPlumber, 
While some of the comments may be a little harsh. They are correct. Print this thread off and have your uncle read it. Maybe he will let you start running the mains under the house.

Kinder Gentler ILPlumber

Please respond to Bill's pm so we can put that issue to bed.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> What he does have:
> 1. The balls to post his work here for all the world to see. I read a lot of talk on here about how perfect we all are. BUT, I don't see many work photos.


I've posted pics of my attempts to install plumbing, as bad as it may be.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

My chrome P trap assembly a few weeks back. Hell, i know its not to code, but it was one hell of a thread. I have faith in Pexman. His uncle is teaching him wrong though in my opinion.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> My chrome P trap assembly a few weeks back. Hell, i know its not to code, but it was one hell of a thread. I have faith in Pexman. His uncle is teaching him wrong though in my opinion.


Yeah, Rock definitely showed some nads on that one..


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

:detective:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Yeah, Rock definitely showed some nads on that one..


Yeah the S-trap from planet Hackmeup:laughing: I thought I was the only alien from there but looks like Rocks my leader:notworthy:


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

well as hash as we are, he is doing unlicensed work under an hvac contractor. he has no journeyman under him and this work is against code as ugly as it is an he did it that way because a tinnocker told him so!!!! what a joke. by 20 i knew code and was in my 3yr. as an apprentice. and i was balling! but that's another story. i'm a Plumber he is neither a Plumber or apprentice! my humble opinion!


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> well as hash as we are, he is doing unlicensed work under an hvac contractor. he has no journeyman under him and this work is against code as ugly as it is an he did it that way because a tinnocker told him so!!!! what a joke. by 20 i knew code and was in my 3yr. as an apprentice. and i was balling! but that's another story. i'm a Plumber he is neither a Plumber or apprentice! my humble opinion!


Most small plumbing shops also do heating. He said he was an apprentice. Apprentices usually don't have journeymen under them. It is ugly. He did it that way because his uncle( a plumber) told him to. You don't have to exclamate so much. We read you loud and clear:laughing:

I think that addresses all your concerns. Yes, I was too lazy to break your quote up.


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

OK, though I understand that a lot of us in here were born burping pipe dope, swingin' pipe wrenches, wearing 1/2" copper couplings for our first rings and then graduating up to 3/4" pex crimp rings as we got older... give the kid a break.
It is a known factor 'in this state' that the plumbing field is a dying industry and I for one would like to see younger people show interest in this profession. I understand that I am no old coot myself, but I was born into this field of work, choosing at about his age to stay in this field. Quit beating him over the head with your 3' cheater bars and teach him some tricks of the trade and how to do it _*pretty*_... GEASE LOUISE GUYS!!


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

GREENPLUM said:


> About 6 years ago I was doing new resi houses , the county let us glue joints (CPVC) under the slab as long as they were pressure tested. The company I was working for has gone under but the underslab joints still remain. But for how long......



Answer: We just copper repiped a house 2 weeks ago that was originally run in cpvc under slab, house was 15 years old. Insurance paid for hot repipe, which we priced a lil' high to cut customer deal on cold side. 

Inspector loved our work thanks to those low $ repipe companies throwing soft copper around and not strapping it in place.


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## longplumb (Nov 15, 2009)

Yes, Pexplumb has a lot to learn, but like others have said, he is showing interest in the plumbing field. Finding any young people with the will to try this out are few and far between. I think pex is a wonderful thing and you almost have to bid everything with it except for in a lot of commercial and industrial jobs, but an apprentice should have to learn how to do copper piping/soldering the proper way and making it look like a professional job before doing pex piping. Hopefully he is working under a licensed plumber and one that has good work ethics and can teach him in the right way.. I was lucky to have the plumbers that I worked under during my apprenticeship, they were all very good plumbers and good teachers. Each plumber has their own way of doing things and it is a good thing to have to work under more than one so that you can learn different ways of accomplishing the projects in a proffessional way.

Good luck pexplumb. Plumbing can be a very rewarding career, especially when you can stand back and be proud of your work.:thumbup:

And Yes you will have SH$##Y days ahead!!!!! But it will always work out.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

longplumb said:


> I think pex is a wonderful thing and you almost have to bid everything with it except for in a lot of commercial and industrial jobs, but an apprentice should have to learn how to do copper piping/soldering the proper way and making it look like a professional job before doing pex piping.


 
That'd be nice but it all depends on what work they're bidding and what the plumber is selling. I don't know how many houses I piped with cpvc when I first started before I did any real copper work. I worked with a real good journeyman but the company was bidding cheap tract homes with cpvc so that's what we did.







Paul


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I would have no problem with the way that was done.......if it was a slab on grade home, and the manifold was inside the wall. If it's a crawl space home then trunk and branch is the way to go. If slab on grade, then loop and manifold (most codes don't allow pex fittings under slab). Of course manabloc can be done on both styles of foundations.

Keep trying dude.

The superpex man has spoken........


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> I would have no problem with the way that was done.......if it was a slab on grade home, and the manifold was inside the wall. If it's a crawl space home then trunk and branch is the way to go. If slab on grade, then loop and manifold (most codes don't allow pex fittings under slab). Of course manabloc can be done on both styles of foundations.
> 
> Keep trying dude.
> 
> The superpex man has spoken........


 It would depend on the layout of that house. Even if the house is on a slab doesn't mean each bath gets ran directly from the water heater,infact that would be rare even on a slab home to have homeruns back to the water heater for each bath.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I just did a repair on a house in Lakeland that only had 3 manifolds. 1 one the main, 1 for the hot distribution, 1 for the cold distribution. Copper must have been cheap at that time  

I was not suggesting that he build something like that in pex for slab homes(though there is nothing wrong with that other than it being wastfull of material). I meant a standard "multi manifold" and loop system.


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## 1plumb4uall (Jan 6, 2010)

*Oh the ole PEX debate*

*I quit using PEX in the home run method what a waste of materials! I use Upnor pex with brass fittings just like I used to do with copper pipe. It works fine.*


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Yeah, but copper is BETTER!!!!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbsup:


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## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

I am plumbing a 7 bath house right now and the HO wanted me to run a manabloc system in it. I tried to talk him out of it but he insisted so I shot up the price and he said do it. I started to run the pex and he said wait a minute I wanted 3/4". I am like WHAT??????????
He said that is what he wanted and that is what he will get. I tried to explain to him it is a waste of time and money but he wanted to do it. he also wants a recirc on the hot. Cant do that I told him and he said look at my dads house. The plumber there just ran a recirc line and used fittings to tie it all in to the hot line. not much of a manabloc sytem anymore. he is certain that at some point he will have to cut sheetrock and repair this pex system. 
Now get this he had me run trunk and branch on the upstairs kids bath. I am totaly confused at what this guy wants and am just giving him what he asks for . I tried to talk him into letting me run copper and running a recirc pump but HE DOESNT WANT TO SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY. Some people you just cant reason with.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Are you going to use a coupling at every port of the Manajunk to increase from 3/8" - 1/2", to the 3/4"?

Explain to the tard that the fixture will only flow ___gpm.

On second thought, nevermind


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