# whole house lift station



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I was on a job today changing 16 year old Hydromantic 2HP pump with 1 1/4 discharge. 100% Original from 1997. Well I have change a few of these pumps in the past. But todays went to HELL!
the stub in pipe that the yoke slides onto broke off in the pit. It got dark on me so I'm going back tomorrow to see how bad it broke off. My question is does this stub in piece bolt onto the pit or am I going to have to dig it up and stub in a new line? Any suggestions on how to fix this? 

What I found strange is that the pump doesn't have a check valve unless it's built in? Once I undid the yoke and broke the seal it was like a river of never ending poo water!!!:furious:


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I guess with 115 looks.. No one has a clue or have any input.


----------



## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Not sure I understand what broke off?


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

3KP said:


> I guess with 115 looks.. No one has a clue or have any input.


pictures make it easier to see and understand.


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Here is pictures I took today. I had to put a blow test plug in it. The discharge line broke of in the lift station pit. There was a gate vale but it was on the part that broke off. So no stopping water coming in. I see the 4 bolts. Not sure if i undo those i can bit a new section with new nipple. Or am I going to have to dig on out side of pit and cut the line. Then stub in a new section? I wish there was a valve up stream to turn off. Getting this back together is going to be a B**** the guide rails are pretty rust as well. Going to replace them as well. 

Brass piece is blow up test plug. It baffles me that it only has an 1 1/4 discharge


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

3KP said:


> It baffles me that it only has an 1 1/4 discharge


That says grinder pump to me....


----------



## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

3KP said:


> Here is pictures I took today. I had to put a blow test plug in it. The discharge line broke of in the lift station pit. There was a gate vale but it was on the part that broke off. So no stopping water coming in. I see the 4 bolts. Not sure if i undo those i can bit a new section with new nipple. Or am I going to have to dig on out side of pit and cut the line. Then stub in a new section? I wish there was a valve up stream to turn off. Getting this back together is going to be a B**** the guide rails are pretty rust as well. Going to replace them as well.
> 
> Brass piece is blow up test plug. It baffles me that it only has an 1 1/4 discharge
> 
> ...


I think you would get answers if people knew. Most people like to show off their knowledge, or like to help. But I haven't a clue. The only thing I know about a left station is it lefts. 
Or maybe they don't like you here. Haha, good luck, smile.


----------



## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

Redwood said:


> That says grinder pump to me....


That says, that makes sense to me....


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Just curious...
Did you give them a price already?

Think maybe like $2500 your cost for the pump alone....


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I may be really out in left field on this but...

Is it possible that the bolted assembly WAS the check valve and it has failed in some way? Maybe the bolts expand a rubber seal to keep it in place, somewhat like PVC repair closet flanges.

No matter what, I think you have no choice but to attempt to loosen the bolts and see what you are dealing with.

The 1-1/4 discharge is not surprising. If that is a grinder pump, the discharge is just a liquid slurry. The station I am working on serves over 100 mobile home lots and with a duplex grinder system, it can operate on 2".


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Just curious...
> Did you give them a price already?
> 
> Think maybe like $2500 your cost for the pump alone....


As posted in first post.... Yep I have done a few of these pump replacements. And your pretty much on track with the cost of the pump. Thanks for you cost analysis. We are F.R. so price was given to replace the pump and floats. But soon to have additional cost due to broken pipe which was unforeseen. 

There is one housing addition that half of it's homes have lift station.
Some of these homes have ejector pit in the basement of the house and lift station out in front of it. (why they do 2 pits is beyond me, I would have 1 at the lowest level of my yard.) In the last 2-3 years is when I first seen a 2 HP grinder pump. I have done plenty of Zoller 264/267 ejector pumps. In my 16 years in this plumbing field. I would be the first to admit I don't Know it all about plumbing...

Back to the grinder pump. I usually would un bolt the discharge housing & rail guide off one pump then bolt it onto the new pump. Feed power line to pump up the conduit line. Slide the pump back in and turn the pump on. Viola! 

I never turned off any gate valves or noticed a check valve. (do grinder pumps have built in check valves? Because I have no clue if they do or not) Just looking for knowledge...

The last (3) 2HP grinder pumps I didn't have water rushing back into the pit from the discharge line after the pump was out. This one on the other hand has so much water running back into the pit. So it got me to thinking... There has to be a way to shut this line down up steam?? Perhaps a valve buried under ground? (like a water main Curb stop). But a valve up stream would make to much sense. Wonder how they were able to make there connections when the neighborhood was being developed with out all the poo water rushing at them? Think I'm going to sleep on that thought.


----------



## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

The ones i've done are usually tied to forced mains and have a check valve outside the pit. 

Sometimes you can find a valve by the street. One in particular we could not locate the curb stop. Had to check city archives and found it 2 blocks away.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

How have you been doing lately ,,, I have not seen you around town

I am Sorry to see that you got yourself into something very nasty there.. where is that located in indy ??


From what you discribe, it looks like you will have to dig it up and install a 1 1/4 dresser coupling on the line and install a new peice of pipe back into the pit...... 

How you are going to seal the hole and make it 
water tight is a very good question

I am presnetly in the process of installing a pit and grinder 
at my own home.... the only thing that goes in the side of 
the pit is a doughnut ring around the 1 1/4 black poly line..
I used a whole tube of silicone on the outside and inside of 
the pit...

good luck getting out of that mess


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> How have you been doing lately ,,, I have not seen you around town.
> 
> I seen you a few days ago at Speedway gas station on Hanna & Madison. I've been remodeling a few houses one was in Irvington, and the other 2 were up by 33rd and Central/ Ruckle (what a wonderful area :whistling2 As for service calls I been up in Carmel and Fishers area.
> 
> ...


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*What is the reason for a grinder pump??*

at my home I only was about 10 inches low from running 
a sewer line back to the septic.....

Now with this pit I probably have a couple of feet of fall 
to the front of the property going through a 1 1/4 pipe...

I have installed a smaller grinder made by Zoeller..... but now that we see how it all went in, I wonder why I could not just use a normal Zoeller sewage pump to do the job....??

everyone tells me I needed a grinder pump ,
 perhaps its code but I am not sure about it. 

I need to understand why a normal cheap sewage pump would not work if you have fall on the pipe.....???.


----------



## shlomy81 (Apr 23, 2012)

A sewage pump without a grinder is a problem seeker with today's use of so called flushble wipes,
Iv installed and serviced a lot of sewage pumps and they du need a check valve other wise u will be dropping back Avery time the pump stops, and and a ball/gate valve for service


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

shlomy81 said:


> A sewage pump without a grinder is a problem seeker with today's use of so called flushble wipes,
> Iv installed and serviced a lot of sewage pumps and they du need a check valve other wise u will be dropping back Avery time the pump stops, and and a ball/gate valve for service


 
I have been to a lot of homes with normal sewage pumps in the downstairs bathrooms that get stopped up by things like that... 

I suppose the tampons and flushible wipes get ground up with a grinder , or do they pose a problem for them too....??

So a grinder literally means grinding up anything that gets thrown down the sewer... the last one I priced my cost was 2500... 

I got this 110volt shark grinder from Zoeller for 500...

I think that the only way to win would be to put a sign by the toilets warning everyone not to throw those things down the toilet.... 
under penalty of death.:yes:


t


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> I have been to a lot of homes with normal sewage pumps in the downstairs bathrooms that get stopped up by things like that...
> 
> I suppose the tampons and flushible wipes get ground up with a grinder , or do they pose a problem for them too....??
> 
> ...


Grinders don't like undies, not even the larger 3HP commercial ones..

The Liberty Omnivore will shred a pack of diapers, wood, and even jeans pretty much whatever you can throw at it...

They come with a high price tag but worth it.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Anyone familiar with Triple D No-Clog pumps?


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

3KP said:


> Here is pictures I took today. I had to put a blow test plug in it. The discharge line broke of in the lift station pit. There was a gate vale but it was on the part that broke off. So no stopping water coming in. I see the 4 bolts. Not sure if i undo those i can bit a new section with new nipple. Or am I going to have to dig on out side of pit and cut the line. Then stub in a new section? I wish there was a valve up stream to turn off. Getting this back together is going to be a B**** the guide rails are pretty rust as well. Going to replace them as well.
> 
> Brass piece is blow up test plug. It baffles me that it only has an 1 1/4 discharge
> 
> ...



Now that I have seen the pictures what you're looking at in the pit, that is a link seal type wall sealant , it seals the hole up around your pit wall penetration, hence the 4 bolts . You can try to loosen the bolts and reuse it once you have the pipe repaired ,but you might have to replace it. Also you will need to install checkvalve and a full port shut off valve.


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

So if I'm reading this correctly... I'm going to have to bust up his decorative side walk and dig down to the line to make the repairs... I only have a foot between the pit and a 3 ft tall brick retaining wall. 

CRAP!


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

You should be able to fix it from inside the pit , loosen the bolts up and you should be able to pry the link seal off the pipe and pit wall. Make the repair from inside the pit then slide the link seal back over the pipe ,tighten it back up . Reinstall the pump with checkvalve and full port shutoff .


----------



## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

justme said:


> You should be able to fix it from inside the pit , loosen the bolts up and you should be able to pry the link seal off the pipe and pit wall. Make the repair from inside the pit then slide the link seal back over the pipe ,tighten it back up . Reinstall the pump with checkvalve and full port shutoff .


I've had the same luck on a similar Myers pit before...

The only other option I had was making another penetration, therefore making it not water tight, or wrestle with the bolts. It worked out all considered. 

The pedestal fitting broke and they no longer made a replacement for it, pit was entirely too small, width wise, to make a field change to rail system.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Can you cut out the side of the basin and fiberglass it when finished?


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

justme said:


> You should be able to fix it from inside the pit , loosen the bolts up and you should be able to pry the link seal off the pipe and pit wall. Make the repair from inside the pit then slide the link seal back over the pipe ,tighten it back up . Reinstall the pump with checkvalve and full port shutoff .


 
Oh, hell yes that is what I would want to do... 
get down in that grinder pit and beat the hell out of the clamps ....

be sure to wear a good haz-mat suit for that one



good luck next week with that job


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

I know its going to be " ****ty" but whats a plumber to do.


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Yep I understand the inside part. But if there is a flange on the inside wouldn't there be one on the outside as well? So I should dig it up? I'm going to the wholesalers that specializes in these pumps to get the repair parts. They don't open for another 1/2 hr .


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

From my experience with link seal type devices they only tighten up from one side , its usually the side with the bolts exposed. Only one way to find out .


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

There ya go guys. It's fixed. I was able to use a hack saw blade and cut 2 grooves in what was left of the nipple. Took a screw driver and beat it with a hammer and peeled the nipple out and screw a new one in with a new stainless steal gate valve. Sorry no ball valves...


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

3KP said:


> There ya go guys. It's fixed. I was able to use a hack saw blade and cut 2 grooves in what was left of the nipple. Took a screw driver and beat it with a hammer and peeled the nipple out and screw a new one in with a new stainless steal gate valve. Sorry no ball valves...
> 
> View attachment 28178


 

good job.....

just be sure to clean the legs on your ladder before you haul it in and set it on someones white carpet....


better yet , you probably ought to throw it away..


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

:clap:


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Good job


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I've learned more about these pump systems on this job....

Never to do them anymore. :laughing:

Think I'm going to send the rest to Master Mark :jester:

It wasn't that bad, Just this time I got a little worked up on how and what to do to fix it since I never had one break off like that. 

Thanks PZ


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

3KP said:


> I've learned more about these pump systems on this job....
> 
> Never to do them anymore. :laughing:
> 
> ...


 


thanks, that is something I dont need to learn about either.....

the only one I will ever work on is in my own back yard... a small little 110volt Zoeller shark grinder pump... cost me about 500 bucks.. i hope it last a few years..
.

I bet $$ that while you were stuck on that emergency job the phone rang off the wall and you had to turn down a lot of clean easy work....
 it never fails..


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I bet $$ that while you were stuck on that emergency job the phone rang off the wall and you had to turn down a lot of clean easy work....
it never fails..

Nope I have an employee now to run them. He's been here since late July or early August? It's a blur to me when he started. He's done a very good job since he's been here. I think I finally may of found me a keeper..

Yes truck has GPS. He's not aware of it either. It sends me an email every time the ignition key is turned on or off and tells me the location. If I want to, I can look up his driving record of the day any time of the week. It tells me his speed, harsh braking, and engine run time. So far he going where he's suppose to and no after hours drives in my vehicle.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

3KP said:


> Nope I have an employee now to run them. He's been here since late July or early August? It's a blur to me when he started. He's done a very good job since he's been here. I think I finally may of found me a keeper...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Aptora has GPS systems I bought one when I purchased the flat rate plus program. I'm pleased with both items there is a few things on the frp that needs major tweaking and a few task that I do that are not in the program which I had to program into it. But it keeps my employee from calling me to ask for pricing at every job. Which is very nice..


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

Our forced mains have a check valve and a stop valve outside the pump station and there is also a stop valve at the junction of the private forced main and the public connection.


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

I need to dig up some pics. I just installed a nice 2” solids pump system for a swank pool house addition. This guy built a 600sq ft pool house with kitchen and bath and spent $145,000

I installed a Myers 2” solids pump in a 3x5 reinforced spun fiberglass basin with a rhombus pump controller. 

It pumps approx 85’ at a 2% grade to a gravity sewer. Zoller cast iron check, type L copper inside the basin with stainless steel 2” Union. 

I also install high head grinders......

Special place in my heart for poop pumps. Big $$$$$


----------



## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

RichardBull said:


> I need to dig up some pics. I just installed a nice 2” solids pump system for a swank pool house addition. This guy built a 600sq ft pool house with kitchen and bath and spent $145,000
> 
> I installed a Myers 2” solids pump in a 3x5 reinforced spun fiberglass basin with a rhombus pump controller.
> 
> ...


What you charge for this job????


----------



## RichardBull (Jan 7, 2021)

sparky said:


> What you charge for this job????


every jobs different but I think it was 3500.00. Materials cost me around $1500.

contractor dug the hole for me and the trench to connect the pump to the gravity main. It took a day basically without rushing around. I don’t get in a hurry now days.


----------

