# Hacky wash fountain fix



## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Thought you all might be amused by my job yesterday. This steel supply place had been hounding me to fix their ancient Bradley wash fountain. I kept putting it off, hoping they would just go away (get someone else), but they persisted (apparently everyone else was quoting *HUGE* prices - obviously they didn't want the job either).

The ancient Bradley was leaking hot 24/7, causing the cold lines in the building to condensate badly and the bathroom to be like a sauna from the hot leak. The paint was peeling off the walls.  Only one pedal on the sink still sorta worked. I looked for parts (Bradley has excellent parts catalogs), but the sink is too old. Besides, why throw thousands of $$ at this old junker. All the mechanical stuff underneath was worn out, but the bowl and drain were still fine. So I started up my CAD program and drew up this thing - just designing on the fly as I drew it.

Four laundry faucets on a two-piece plastic plate that would fasten to the old (abandoned) soap dispenser. I gave them a price for a brand new sink and a price for this ultra-hacky fix. Bradley sinks are expensive, so you know what they went with. :laughing:








The plate is 1/2" UHMW (Ultra-High-Molecular-Weight Polyethylene), screwed to the pot metal soap dispenser with lots of brass wood screws. UHMW is strong stuff - not expensive - easy to work with. I cut a hole in the stainless shroud to offset the waterlines out.




































The shop. That's a huge CNC plasma cutter in the foreground. Nasty squealing thing almost made me deaf while I was there.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

I like it! That's some purty soldering!


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

What was leaking? Next time try Marks out of Texas. I service a whole paper mill that has ancient Bradleys and they are a life saver. I have had good luck rebuilding everything under the fountain. 

They are like backflows kinda a pain, but once you get used to them they are supper easy.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Actually looks like a pretty decent job to me

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> What was leaking? Next time try Marks out of Texas. I service a whole paper mill that has ancient Bradleys and they are a life saver. I have had good luck rebuilding everything under the fountain.
> 
> They are like backflows kinda a pain, but once you get used to them they are super easy.


Ya... I'm in Canada, about as far from Texas as it is possible to get.  Getting parts from the States can be a royal pain in the butt, especially when you don't really know what you need.

What was leaking? The valve for the one pedal still working was leaking hot out of the spray head constantly. Just a half-hearted soft dribble/spray, but enough to run their HWT electric bills sky high I expect.

I've never worked on a Bradley before. The guts underneath had been hacked at by previous repairers too - pedals disconnected and such. 

Got a link for Mark's? I Googled a bit, but came up with nothing... Oh! Here it is. I'll check them out next time I get a Bradley call (probably never :laughing. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

futz said:


> Ya... I'm in Canada. Getting parts from the States can be a royal pain in the butt, especially when you don't really know what you need.
> 
> What was leaking? The valve for the one pedal still working was leaking hot out of the spray head constantly. Just a half-hearted soft dribble/spray, but enough to run their HWT electric bills sky high I expect.
> 
> ...


You might get them to send you a catalog. They have great exploded views and manufacture parts # for tons of stuff. Once you get the right part number it's usually easy to find the part.

It might be hard to get some parts in Canada but at least you have her:


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> It might be hard to get some parts in Canada but at least you have her:
> View attachment 17098


The hag. Ew.

Were the sinks you worked on this old?









Look at how the pedal has cut away the flooring right down to bare concrete.  It's been there a long time.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Nice job!......:thumbsup: No flex supply lines, I love that..!


And nobody mentioned the lack of angle stops for each faucet..... 
(Probably not code in Canada anyway)


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Nice job!......:thumbsup: No flex supply lines, I love that..!
> 
> 
> And nobody mentioned the lack of angle stops for each faucet.....
> (Probably not code in Canada anyway)


This is a hacky repair, not a new install. Nobody gives a rat's a$$ about any idiot inspector's opinion. :laughing: It spits water - good enough.  No inspector will ever see it anyway.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

futz said:


> This is a hacky repair, not a new install. Nobody gives a rat's a$$ about any idiot inspector's opinion. :laughing: It spits water - good enough.  No inspector will ever see it anyway.



It is code here in commercial applications. The isolation valves serving the fixture would suffice. Any inspector who has a problem with that needs his butt kicked right out the door.

*Nice job! I like it.* And I too hate working on those - the floor is always a grease pit and it's usually hacked up underneath as you said.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

futz said:


> The hag. Ew.
> 
> Were the sinks you worked on this old?
> 
> ...



Circa 1970, thankfully most are stainless and 1/2 circle. The shower valves are nearly impossible to get parts for obsolete made by symmons they run 550+ per stem.:laughing:


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> Nice job!......:thumbsup: No flex supply lines, I love that..!
> 
> 
> And nobody mentioned the lack of angle stops for each faucet.....
> (Probably not code in Canada anyway)


I was more curious why the multi-turn stops which isolate the whole set-up as opposed to ball valves? Not bashing, just curious.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

BTW, I think that is some amazing "Out of the Box" thinking on your part. That's the stuff that that keeps me getting all geeked up when I see challenging jobs. Salut!


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

mccmech said:


> I was more curious why the multi-turn stops which isolate the whole set-up as opposed to ball valves? Not bashing, just curious.



Because they're way cheaper than balls and last just as good, since they're never used.
I don't need big flow anyway - with all four faucets on full blast there's plenty of flow to wash hands with - easily as good as the old spray head - I cranked off the hose thread ends on the spouts and installed aerators to limit flow and prevent splashing.
And last, but not least, they're what I had on the truck. :laughing: I had considered using ball valves but there weren't any in the bin.


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

futz said:


> Because they're way cheaper than balls and last just as good, since they're never used.
> I don't need big flow anyway - with all four faucets on full blast there's plenty of flow to wash hands with - easily as good as the old spray head - I cranked off the hose thread ends on the spouts and installed aerators to limit flow and prevent splashing.
> And last, but not least, they're what I had on the truck. :laughing: I had considered using ball valves but there weren't any in the bin.


 
Freankin looks good with the gates anyhow.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Now thats the differance between a real plumber and one of those salesmen plumbers!! Great work and ideas!!


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

great work and cool retrofit


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

RealCraftsMan said:


> Freankin looks good with the gates anyhow.


Heh. :laughing: I haven't installed a gate valve in decades. Those are straight stops. Good little valves.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Hell of an idea! Nice work!


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

futz said:


> Heh. :laughing: I haven't installed a gate valve in decades. Those are straight stops. Good little valves.


 
Oh duhhh...I need to look better I guess lol


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

mccmech said:


> *I was more curious why the multi-turn stops which isolate the whole set-up as* *opposed to ball valves*? Not bashing, just curious.


 






I was teasing him, I like the job he did. I meant he needed (2) angle stops for _*each faucet*_ in order to comply with code. Every fixture has to have individual shut-off valves, (tub and shower valves I think are no longer required to have their own shut-offs).
So that would be a total of (8) angle stops plus the shut-offs on top. A service guy will have to shut all the faucets off if he needs to go get a stem. 

But hey, it looks good, customer is happy, customer didn't pay alot for OEM (orig. equipment), and it isn't a permitted job.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

The last ancient Bradley I worked on needed just about every part in it replaced including the foot ring around the bottom.

I gutted it and put in a tempering valve with 4 foot pedals all in parallel so stepping on any one of them and the spray head would come on...

It was a fraction of the cost and has been working great for about 15 years now...


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Does the soap dispenser still work? :laughing:


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I was teasing him, I like the job he did. I meant he needed (2) angle stops for _*each faucet*_ in order to comply with code. Every fixture has to have individual shut-off valves, (tub and shower valves I think are no longer required to have their own shut-offs).
> So that would be a total of (8) angle stops plus the shut-offs on top. A service guy will have to shut all the faucets off if he needs to go get a stem.
> 
> But hey, it looks good, customer is happy, customer didn't pay alot for OEM (orig. equipment), and it isn't a permitted job.





_"Every fixture has to have individual shut-off valves"_


It's still just a single fixture...


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

futz said:


> Four laundry faucets on a two-piece plastic plate that would fasten to the old *(abandoned)* soap dispenser.





Titan Plumbing said:


> Does the soap dispenser still work? :laughing:


The old powdered soap dispenser is now the mount for my faucet plate, and will never work again. I had to take the grinder to it and cut off the dispenser flipper things underneath. They didn't work anymore anyway. They had long ago switched to the three liquid soap dispensers you see in the pics hanging above the old dispenser.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

I don't remember ever seeing a urinal with an exposed p-trap. That is a great idea. Course this is Wisconsin


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

KCplumber said:


> I don't remember ever seeing a urinal with an exposed p-trap. That is a great idea. Course this is Wisconsin


Maybe they haven't been available since before you were born?  Maybe not... :laughing: No idea how old you are.

I've never installed one anyway.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

KCplumber said:


> I don't remember ever seeing a urinal with an exposed p-trap. That is a great idea. Course this is Wisconsin


I've worked on too many of them.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Very creative and effective way to make something work for a tight budget. Its really a shame as Bradley can be easy to work with, but extremely expensive. Replaced a few when I worked for the other company, and was stunned when I found out how expensive they were.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

futz said:


> Maybe they haven't been available since before you were born?  Maybe not... :laughing: No idea how old you are.
> 
> I've never installed one anyway.


I'm old, 54 
I thought maybe they were common in your area


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

The new Bradly valves easly replace the old valves. They still have rebuild kits for the older valves too. I deal with Bradely direct, and the cost to fix these things are not that bad. I know I could of rebuilt that one cheaper than four new faucets and all the repiping and fab work.

But, the retrofit you did does look good


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

KCplumber said:


> I'm old, 54
> I thought maybe they were common in your area


I'm 50+. I've seen a few rare ext-trap urinals, but never worked on one. I could be wrong, but I don't believe they're available anymore.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

futz said:


> I'm 50+. I've seen a few rare ext-trap urinals, but never worked on one. I could be wrong, but I don't believe they're available anymore.



They are nasty, but better than pulling the things.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

futz said:


> I'm 50+. I've seen a few rare ext-trap urinals, but never worked on one. I could be wrong, but I don't believe they're available anymore.


I think they were eliminated by ASTM. 

All urinals and toilets are now required to have integral traps.

We still see them around here in old office buildings, garages, shops, etc...


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

You can still get exposed trap urinals I still see a few new constrotion places having them installed. 

http://www.us.kohler.com/us/Darfiel...rap/productDetail/Standard-Urinals/418673.htm

http://www.mansfieldplumbing.com/Product-Catalog/Builder/Adam.aspx


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

KCplumber said:


> I don't remember ever seeing a urinal with an exposed p-trap. That is a great idea. Course this is Wisconsin


I've seen a few of em in WI. Usually old schools have exposed trap urinals.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Urinal traps = gross. I send my apprentice on them now


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## AWWGH (May 2, 2011)

Half of our jobs is to be practical and that's what you were here. It's a shop that needs running water to wash hands, nothing fancy or expensive just functional and thats what you did.

I like it.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

AWWGH said:


> Half of our jobs is to be practical and that's what you were here. It's a shop that needs running water to wash hands, nothing fancy or expensive just functional and thats what you did.
> 
> I like it.


Exactly, it's a wash fountain in a shop full of dirty blue collars. They don't care what it looks like. It's not a fancy spa in Beverly Hills for goodness sake.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I was teasing him, I like the job he did. I meant he needed (2) angle stops for _*each faucet*_ in order to comply with code. Every fixture has to have individual shut-off valves, (tub and shower valves I think are no longer required to have their own shut-offs).
> So that would be a total of (8) angle stops plus the shut-offs on top. A service guy will have to shut all the faucets off if he needs to go get a stem.
> 
> But hey, it looks good, customer is happy, customer didn't pay alot for OEM (orig. equipment), and it isn't a permitted job.


All due respect brother, my question had nothing to do with you or your post. I don't know if the op's job had permits, or any facts pertaining to the job. so whether or not he had individual shut-offs at each faucet is irrelevant to me. I try not to judge another man's work because if someone asked 10 of us the same question they would possibly get 10 different answers, all right but just different. Anyhow, I REALLY was just curious why he used multi-turn stops to isolate as oposed to ball-valves.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

mccmech said:


> ... Anyhow, I REALLY was just curious why he used multi-turn stops to isolate as oposed to ball-valves.


Job security 

:jester:


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

DesertOkie said:


> You might get them to send you a catalog. They have great exploded views and manufacture parts # for tons of stuff. Once you get the right part number it's usually easy to find the part.
> 
> It might be hard to get some parts in Canada but at least you have her:
> View attachment 17098


 No you have her now, hope she stays in Vegas!:yes:


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## Ironwood2011 (May 6, 2011)

I think that wash fountain looks pretty clean considering.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Job security
> 
> :jester:


Thanks for that most in-depth explaination. It's no wonder I'm constantly intimidated by such genius!:laughing:


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