# Giant Water Heater and warranty?



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

A woman called this morning saying she has hot water for 2 minutes then turns cold. I asked her how old it was and said it saw 3 years old(40 gallon). I told her to call Giant for the warranty. They supposedly said to her to hire a plumber and the plumber would supply free parts. Then that plumber would have to make a claim with them.

I said no mam, I charge for the parts as I have to go and get them from several stores. You can ask a compensation from them and they will surely tell me to bugger off if I make a claim. The warranty is not my business.

How are warranties applied in your area?


----------



## OldNelly (Jun 3, 2015)

Warranties go through my wholesaler only if I supplied the unit. Other than that the customer is on thier own. Sounds like your customer has a bad dip tube, they won't warranty it.


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

MFG never seemed to care where the heater came from. They will send a new one to us through our supplier if we come across a bad one. Supplier would credit us when we submit the data tag from the old unit. We still got to charge labor for the job so what do we care if we supplied it or not?


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

I went and checked a leaking Rinai tankless water heater that I didn’t install. I called the manufacturer, they sent a new heat exchanger no charge. I returned and installed it for the homeowner. I charged him $450 labor. +$69 original diagnosis


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I hope it's a lower element. There are 2 lengths for a dip tube on this brand and I have to order it and come back the next day. If that's the case I'll be hearing complaints on costs.

My supply house told me to send the serial number if it was purchased at a big box if so it's 1 year on parts and I'm not sure if the supply house honors it, I think not.

She told me it was purchased at a big box and installed by a plumber....hmmph

Either way I'm not too fond of the warranty bit. you got to travel to and from to get a free replacement. It will be cheaper if I just buy them in advance and charge them with a mark up. Also its my first water heater repair in the year. I'm got going to carry parts for that.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Slightly off topic, but it might not be the heater itself. Sounds like a mixing issue. I had a customer who had a similar problem. The heater was about due anyway so we replaced it. Next day he call and says the new heater is doing the same thing as the old one. We go there and sure enough hot for a couple of minutes then lukewarm. 

Hindsight 20 20, I wasn’t thinking. Put a new gas control valve, same issue. So I started tracing the distribution. We all smacked our heads when I found the issue. The home owner had tied the hot and cold together years ago so he could wash his dog. Each side had a shut off then tied together with a boiler drain. He forgot to shut the gate valves when he last used it.

From that point on I always check the water from the heater drain down, not some random fixture. The issue can be caused by a single handle cartridge. What I do now if the heater itself tests good when flushing it is turn off supplies to every single handle faucet and start testing each fixture individually.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I went there this morning and I gasped at the installation and asked who did that? She replied it was the plumber from the big box store. The guy must of been a clerk employee not a legitimate licenced company or plumber.

The tank was turned facing the slab footing, the drain an inch and a half away from it. It could of been facing the other way for easy access. the copper pipes were full of solder drips it looked like a candle was left lit for a week. The bottom was sitting on the concrete all rusted. No pan and the list goes on. The rest of the old plumbing was hacked by decades of diy and black market handyman crap.

Anyway the bottom of the tank was cold, the element kaput. It was tough to work all twisted. She didn't want me to correct the issues. She wanted my receipt for the element! Sorry mam but you can't have my receipts. I wasn't going to show her my mark up either!

Its amazing the trouble she's going to go through to get a 30$ part refunded by the manufacturer.... I didn't ask for a review!


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Tango said:


> I went there this morning and I gasped at the installation and asked who did that? She replied it was the plumber from the big box store. The guy must of been a clerk employee not a legitimate licenced company or plumber.
> 
> The tank was turned facing the slab footing, the drain an inch and a half away from it. It could of been facing the other way for easy access. the copper pipes were full of solder drips it looked like a candle was left lit for a week. The bottom was sitting on the concrete all rusted. No pan and the list goes on. The rest of the old plumbing was hacked by decades of diy and black market handyman crap.
> 
> ...


 












Try to get pictures, both for us here at PZ and for your records. Insurance companies, banks and home inspector charlatans all like pictures. I used to work for a GC that re-habilitated {flipped} foreclosed properties for big banks. The GC wanted pictures from me to give to the bankers.

In the future if you need a dip tube, you could make one. Flare some 1/2" copper and you're good to go. Just know that if you alter a water heater, then you own it. But sometimes going to get parts is a hassle.


It's understood that she's tighter than a frog's a$$ underwater since she's asking you for a receipt for your parts. Ridiculous. I tell people it's proprietary information and I don't divulge it.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Tommy plumber said:


> Try to get pictures, both for us here at PZ and for your records. Insurance companies, banks and home inspector charlatans all like pictures. I used to work for a GC that re-habilitated {flipped} foreclosed properties for big banks. The GC wanted pictures from me to give to the bankers.
> 
> In the future if you need a dip tube, you could make one. Flare some 1/2" copper and you're good to go. Just know that if you alter a water heater, then you own it. But sometimes going to get parts is a hassle.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip for the dip tube it's an awesome idea! 

I reread my post, I replaced the element only, I left everything ugly as it was. I told her she also needed backwater valves but she didn't go for it. No p-trap for the washing machine just some duct tape.

Damn that's what I forgot to take pictures for you guys! Its really starting to be a constant for me every older home more than 25 years were butchered.

Can you tell me the reason I should take pictures for insurance, is it to protect my self if the customer blames me? If I start taking pictures I will need to create computer files and document all that stuff. It would be a lot of work to document everything. I'd have to charge each customer a whole hour just to note issues. Almost every job the plumbing has been hacked. The result of being cheap I guess or bad plumbing companies...




I just came back from a brand new house on a side of hill, snow melting the semi first floor flooded because the plumbing was done wrong and improper sump pump. The loose float caught on the side of the pit and didn't start. 2 inches of water ruining bedroom and living room. Not to mention the water filter beside the reserve tank is 8 feet in the air!:vs_whistle:


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Good tips OpenSights!

I forgot to say when I removed the access panels, I touched inside the tank. the top part was hot and the bottom part was cold which led me to believe a bad element at the bottom. Then there weren't any continuity on it so I drained and replaced it. 

The only trouble I have would be to test thermostats. My plumbing school was 20 years ago and the teacher was only there for a paycheck. I remember a student in our group stood up and thought us a few chapters of the book as the teacher didn't know jack.!


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> Good tips OpenSights!
> 
> I forgot to say when I removed the access panels, I touched inside the tank. the top part was hot and the bottom part was cold which led me to believe a bad element at the bottom. Then there weren't any continuity on it so I drained and replaced it.
> 
> The only trouble I have would be to test thermostats. My plumbing school was 20 years ago and the teacher was only there for a paycheck. I remember a student in our group stood up and thought us a few chapters of the book as the teacher didn't know jack.!


I usually just talk people into letting me change all the electronics. If one part went bad, the rest may very well be on their way out too. Then we know it's all new and you won't be calling me next week to replace another element or a faulty thermostat. 

The parts aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of multiple trips for servicing the stupid thing.

People are usually overjoyed at the thought of saving an extra trip.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Alan said:


> I usually just talk people into letting me change all the electronics. If one part went bad, the rest may very well be on their way out too. Then we know it's all new and you won't be calling me next week to replace another element or a faulty thermostat.
> 
> The parts aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of multiple trips for servicing the stupid thing.
> 
> People are usually overjoyed at the thought of saving an extra trip.


 















Yes, at a minimum replace in sets of {2}. Both t-stats and/or both elements but never one.

Just like replacing brakes; both wheels {either both in front or both in back} or all {4}.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I wish I could do that, most people don't want to pay. Only patch it....


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Tango said:


> I wish I could do that, most people don't want to pay. Only patch it....


 











Au contraire mon ami, vous etes le professional, n'est-ce pas? Bien sur que oui.

You don't ask them if they want {2} t-stats or {2} heating elements, you *TELL* them that's what they need. 

If they ask, that's IF they ask, I tell them they need both T-stats replaced.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Tommy plumber said:


> Au contraire mon ami, vous etes le professional, n'est-ce pas? Bien sur que oui.
> 
> You don't ask them if they want {2} t-stats or {2} heating elements, you *TELL* them that's what they need.
> 
> If they ask, that's IF they ask, I tell them they need both T-stats replaced.


Yes I could try that. 

The other day I had to unclog a laundry tub line. He said he was glad and he'd leave me a good review. When I had to reassemble the piping he had trashed the platform underneath before I got there. I told him I had to be re pipe. He was not a happy camper. He hinted about the bill. In hindsight I shouldn't of sent him a link for a review .


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Tommy plumber said:


> Au contraire mon ami, vous etes le professional, n'est-ce pas? Bien sur que oui.
> 
> You don't ask them if they want {2} t-stats or {2} heating elements, you *TELL* them that's what they need.
> 
> If they ask, that's IF they ask, I tell them they need both T-stats replaced.


Let me ask you this. What would you do say if you removed a toilet, the flange is way too low and the lead fubar. (check the winners thread) and they don't want a proper replacement? Do you charge your time spent there and leave the toilet on the side? Do you go home empty handed?


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Tango said:


> Let me ask you this. What would you do say if you removed a toilet, the flange is way too low and the lead fubar. (check the winners thread) and they don't want a proper replacement? Do you charge your time spent there and leave the toilet on the side? Do you go home empty handed?


 










I've learned to tell them that after I pull the toilet off the floor, if there is additional work needed, then it will cost more.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Tommy plumber said:


> I've learned to tell them that after I pull the toilet off the floor, if there is additional work needed, then it will cost more.


I understand that but they expect just a flat wax and just a small bill. I'd have to explain ALL the problems that could be underneath and cutting out the closet ceiling and walls downstairs to replace the old pipe before I even touch the toilet. Then I'd have to say instead of a 250$ dollar job it could be 1000$ or more.

If they fear the 1000$ bill and don't want to go ahead that's where you charge your consulting fee?


----------



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> Good tips OpenSights!
> 
> I forgot to say when I removed the access panels, I touched inside the tank. the top part was hot and the bottom part was cold which led me to believe a bad element at the bottom. Then there weren't any continuity on it so I drained and replaced it.
> 
> The only trouble I have would be to test thermostats. My plumbing school was 20 years ago and the teacher was only there for a paycheck. I remember a student in our group stood up and thought us a few chapters of the book as the teacher didn't know jack.!


Don't test T-Stats just replace, ! the lower element fails because it doe's most
of the work because that's where the cold water starts every time there is 
a hot water draw even a small amount that lower element comes on


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I'm starting to get the consensus to replace all the parts when there's a water heater issue. Thermostats and elements(116$ no mark up). That makes it real easy, no need to to diagnose the issues in most cases then.

If I go there shouldn't I just tell them for 253$ more you can have a new water heater? Or for 323$ more than the parts you get a supply house model. My labor is not included in that.


----------



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> I'm starting to get the consensus to replace all the parts when there's a water heater issue. Thermostats and elements(116$ no mark up). That makes it real easy, no need to to diagnose the issues in most cases then.
> 
> If I go there shouldn't I just tell them for 253$ more you can have a new water heater? Or for 323$ more than the parts you get a supply house model. My labor is not included in that.


Or they can upgrade the elements, upgraded to commercial grade,
ie: State Sandhog Incoloy elements, that have a 20 year warranty 

Why choose an Incoloy Water Heating Element?
Superalloys, also known as high performance alloys, have become the steel of choice for corrosion resistance and versatility providing;

* Good corrosion resistance in hard water environments
* Excellent strength resistance in high-temperature settings
* Excellent oxidation resistance in high-temperature settings

When combined with low watt density output you have a perfect combination of efficient energy distribution in a resilient long-life element.
those are the black colored elements at the supply house that are twice the cost of regular elements


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

It would be a nice idea for an upsell.

The downside, my supply houses are no longer considered supply houses I consider them like the corner store where all they have are sodas, chips and chocolate bars.

I ask them for hammer arrestors for washing machines. They think I want a washer box with arresters. Even those they don't have "special order" They don't know what they are they don't have any. I ask for flood pumps, they have cheap china pumps that only suck 2 inches off the ground. They don't have hoses either. I ask for plumbing tools they look at me like I came from outer space.

I'm ordering plumbing supplies and tools from the web. I'm wasting my time with all of them. Just had to biatch and get it out.


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> I'm starting to get the consensus to replace all the parts when there's a water heater issue. Thermostats and elements(116$ no mark up). That makes it real easy, no need to to diagnose the issues in most cases then.
> 
> If I go there shouldn't I just tell them for 253$ more you can have a new water heater? Or for 323$ more than the parts you get a supply house model. My labor is not included in that.


$116!?

I used to be able to swap all of the components out for $125 including labor at my previous employer's pricing. :surprise:


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Alan said:


> $116!?
> 
> I used to be able to swap all of the components out for $125 including labor at my previous employer's pricing. :surprise:


Exact price for materials was 118$+15% tax =135.70


----------

