# Damn you moen!! Damn you straight to hell!!



## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

This was how the positemp cartridge came out. I used the screw-in-the-plastic method when the tool wasn't working. It ended up breaking apart & I had to chip it all out. Oh, and to top it off, the horseshoe clip fell into the wall as I was trying to put it back in. Thank God I have saved clips over the years from ones I've replaced just in case I needed it for times like this. And of course, this was a home warranty call so very little pay out.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

wow , ive never had that happen before


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

GREENPLUM said:


> wow , ive never had that happen before


You're either being sarcastic or you have not done enough positemp replacements. That and our water here is terrible which contributes.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> You're either being sarcastic or you have not done enough positemp replacements. That and our water here is terrible which contributes.


 
Its the water, ive removed enuff to know.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

And to be honest it doesn't happen often. The typical scenario for this happening is the customer says, "We never use this tub and we tried for the first time in years yesterday and no hot water came out." The balancing spool gets stuck but also the plastic sticks to the brass body due to swelling and lack of use.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

GREENPLUM said:


> Its the water, ive removed enuff to know.


I gotcha. We do have some rough water. Keeps us busy, though...and frustrated sometimes.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> And to be honest it doesn't happen often. The typical scenario for this happening is the customer says, "We never use this tub and we tried for the first time in years yesterday and no hot water came out." The balancing spool gets stuck but also the plastic sticks to the brass body due to swelling and lack of use.


 
Its not gonna happen often because moen makes quality products. 

have you ever used heat to remove those stubborn cartridges?


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

I replace about 100 Moen posi-temp cartridges a year. I have only had a few break off. Most of the time I can just use my channel locks to pull them out. I guess the water isn't as bad here. Oh and that looks like it sucked.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

^^^I had this yesterday. First time they had used the shower in 14 months. I was fully expecting a fight. For kix I put my needle nose on it and the sucker slid right on out!


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

make ya think twice before drinkng tap water


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

GREENPLUM said:


> Its not gonna happen often because moen makes quality products.
> 
> have you ever used heat to remove those stubborn cartridges?


Not a bad idea with heat, but this particular house is piped in CPVC so that wasn't an option. And I don't have a heat gun only a torch . IMO moen products tend to be over engineered, at least as far as the handle assemblies go. Here, with their widespread lavatory faucets and roman tub faucets, the handles always get stuck, at least on the old versions. It is from people and having water on their hands and dripping onto the handles. Also, there are way too many parts to remove to get to the cartridge. But I will say this, their customer service is great.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

89plumbum said:


> ^^^I had this yesterday. First time they had used the shower in 14 months. I was fully expecting a fight. For kix I put my needle nose on it and the sucker slid right on out!


Lucky.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Not a bad idea with heat, but this particular house is piped in CPVC so that wasn't an option. And I don't have a heat gun. IMO moen products tend to be over engineered, at least as far as the handle assemblies go. Here, with their widespread lavatory faucets and roman tub faucets, the handles always get stuck, at least on the old versions. It is from people and having water on a dripping onto the animals


old CPVC and a stuck moen cart...could get messy and fast 

I like moen and delta and I dont use a heat gun , turbo torch. Try it on the next one. :thumbsup:


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

GREENPLUM said:


> make ya think twice before drinkng tap water


Not many people here do. Filtration systems are very popular.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Based on a study by an independent study group in 2010 Houston had the 6th worst water in the nation of the top 100 cities, as far as population goes. Arlington, Texas was number one


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Based on a study by an independent study group in 2010 Houston had the 6th worst water in the nation of the top 100 cities, as far as population goes. Arlington, Texas was number one


Not in Clear Lake area,,, hower, I among most of the population HATE the Posti-temp faucet... MOENTROL all the way...


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Just about every posi temp cartridge I come across requires breaking them out in pieces.
About half of the 1225 plastic cartridges hang up also. If the moen cartridge puller does not get them out I have screwed in a bolt from a long 3/16 toggle bolt. Put a crescent under the bolt head and drive it out with hammer.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

The bear said:


> Just about every posi temp cartridge I come across requires breaking them out in pieces.
> About half of the 1225 plastic cartridges hang up also. If the moen cartridge puller does not get them out I have screwed in a bolt from a long 3/16 toggle bolt. Put a crescent under the bolt head and drive it out with hammer.


Damn, where are you located?


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> This was how the positemp cartridge came out. I used the screw-in-the-plastic method when the tool wasn't working. It ended up breaking apart & I had to chip it all out. Oh, and to top it off, the horseshoe clip fell into the wall as I was trying to put it back in. Thank God I have saved clips over the years from ones I've replaced just in case I needed it for times like this. And of course, this was a home warranty call so very little pay out.


that had to suck big time, I've had that happen to me once


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumberpro said:


> that had to suck big time, I've had that happen to me once


 Once too many...


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

I had that happen two days in a row a few months ago. 

The first day it was just annoying.

The second day I was still a bit pissed about the previous day and said exactly what you posted...plus some more :yes::laughing:


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

The bear said:


> Just about every posi temp cartridge I come across requires breaking them out in pieces.
> About half of the 1225 plastic cartridges hang up also. If the moen cartridge puller does not get them out I have screwed in a bolt from a long 3/16 toggle bolt. Put a crescent under the bolt head and drive it out with hammer.


 hell thats good, i usually i drive two drywall screws side by side. and hopeful bulldog it out from there.


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## Mpc_mhayes (Nov 27, 2012)

had te said thing on a new valve the other day. Home owner got it at lowes. And waited to know why I was writing them a bill. Yes I installed it. But you got it at lowes. GCs and flipers are the same way. All I do is hook a hot and cold. THe the outlet for the head. I like delta. Moen sucks.


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## wookie (Dec 16, 2008)

Ona puller will work on posi temp.

wookie


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Mpc_mhayes said:


> had te said thing on a new valve the other day. Home owner got it at lowes. And waited to know why I was writing them a bill. Yes I installed it. But you got it at lowes. GCs and flipers are the same way. All I do is hook a hot and cold. THe the outlet for the head. I like delta. Moen sucks.


  can someone translate this.


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## mightypipe (Dec 22, 2012)

It says : I hate house flippers, most GC's, and moen.... Delta is good!


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

Only had one Moen kick my rear like that one we change maybe 4-5 a month most in and out in no time I'll take Moen and day over a delta


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> This was how the positemp cartridge came out. I used the screw-in-the-plastic method when the tool wasn't working. It ended up breaking apart & I had to chip it all out. Oh, and to top it off, the horseshoe clip fell into the wall as I was trying to put it back in. Thank God I have saved clips over the years from ones I've replaced just in case I needed it for times like this. And of course, this was a home warranty call so very little pay out.
> 
> View attachment 25333


REALLY -- You sure you know what your fixen. looks like a 1220 to me not a positemp. Of course my eyes ain't what they used to be.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> REALLY -- You sure you know what your fixen. looks like a 1220 to me not a positemp. Of course my eyes ain't what they used to be.


What you're looking at is the balancing spool that came out of the cartridge. I can see how that would look like a 1222. The rest are the plastic pieces that I chipped out.


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## vinpadalino (Aug 27, 2010)

Happenes a lot to me too. I stick with Delta for shower valves. Unscrew 1 nut and the cartridge just falls into your hands. Save an hour of ****ing around.


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

That's the worst. Usually happens when the homeowner tries to be mr fix it. I find that burying a couple long drywall screws on either side of the remaining brass will give you a bit of purchase to try and wiggle her loose.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Plumbersteve said:


> That's the worst. Usually happens when the homeowner tries to be mr fix it. I find that burying a couple long drywall screws on either side of the remaining brass will give you a bit of purchase to try and wiggle her loose.


Oh yeah, I tried that when the tool didn't work. These come along about once or twice a year.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

For some strange reason posi-temp cartridges are my Achilles heel. At least a 1/4 of them end up like that for me. I dislike their tool. It is too small. It should allow the cartridge to pull inside the handle of the tool. I made tools just to pull the broken pos out of the valve body.

Can't stand the posi-temp no volume control either.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

All i can say is put a tarp or a mat in the tub


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Richard Hilliard said:


> For some strange reason posi-temp cartridges are my Achilles heel. At least a 1/4 of them end up like that for me. I dislike their tool. It is too small. It should allow the cartridge to pull inside the handle of the tool. I made tools just to pull the broken pos out of the valve body.
> 
> Can't stand the posi-temp no volume control either.


Totally agree with the lack of volume control. When I lived in Montana, our water pressure was 130psi. I know it should have had a PRV but I had nothing to do with maintenance. I had a positemp there and I used a shower arm valve behind the shower head to control the volume. Before I put the little valve there it hurt to shower being I took the flow restricted out of the shower head.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

130 PLUMBER said:


> All i can say is put a tarp or a mat in the tub


Yeah I know. I didn't expect it to get to this point.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Delta monitor cartridges are just as bad. The 2 o rings swell up on the end of the cartidge and you end up breaking them out in pieces also. If it is the old 600 series we have to cut the nut off almost every time.


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Yeah I know. I didn't expect it to get to this point.


 :laughing: if i had a dollor for every time i thought that.. i found a chisel that was just a little smaller then the value body. so when i tap it in. it cuts the outer jacket of the cartridge. both sides. but not the value wall. sometime when halfway in i can get it to turn. (sometimes not). but when i use the screwdriver after that, it breaks really easy to the inside... of course it easy to say on a laptop. but it's still a pia.


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