# Rinnai 94lse outdoor install



## TheMaster




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## TheMaster

At this point the homeowner came out and said..."You were right it doesn't look bad at all.....I hate the neighbors anyway but I thought it was going to look ugly for them"...............This lady was a crazy!!! but in a fun way!:laughing:


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## SlickRick

Nice. I see you ended up buying the valve kit?


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## TheMaster

slickrick said:


> Nice. I see you ended up buying the valve kit?


 Yeah i got the valve kit but I'm not impressed by them other than they are compact and its obviously faster.........its cheaper too IMO. It is not better.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

That would never pass here.

1. Is regulator on gas rated for outdoors?

2.Galvo on gas is a big no no.

3.Would have tucked remote wire behind piping.

4.Disconnect looks like crap.

5. ALl and all, i say you did an alright job i guess.

6. I am a complete ass.


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## TheMaster

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> That would never pass here.
> 
> 1. Is regulator on gas rated for outdoors?
> 
> 2.Galvo on gas is a big no no.
> 
> 3.Would have tucked remote wire behind piping.
> 
> 4.Disconnect looks like crap.
> 
> 5. ALl and all, i say you did an alright job i guess.
> 
> 6. I am a complete ass.


 1. yes its an x-rated regulator:laughing:
2.Galvo on gas is very acceptable here...even the gas compnay themselves use it.
3.check the pic below about that remote wire.
4.Why does the disconnect look like crap? It looks like a disconnect suppose to look like...just like the A.C. just down the wall.
5. Thanks,like that means somthing coming from you
6. yes you are


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

TheMaster said:


> 1. yes its an x-rated regulator:laughing:
> 2.Galvo on gas is very acceptable here...even the gas compnay themselves use it.
> 3.check the pic below about that remote wire.
> 4.Why does the disconnect look like crap? It looks like a disconnect suppose to look like...just like the A.C. just down the wall.
> 5. Thanks,like that means somthing coming from you
> 6. yes you are



Whos the Tard in the bath window taking the picture, and 2, I have the same tool bag. I like your style kid.:yes:


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## TheMaster

Thats the rockstar whisperer......He whispers stfu rockand Rock stfu.:laughing:
Yeah I like the cushy grip...I'm due for another...its looking bad to carry into some homes.


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## 422 plumber

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Whos the Tard in the bath window taking the picture, and 2, I have the same tool bag. I like your style kid.:yes:


I am still sitting here still laughing as I type this. Rockstar once again reminds all of us here what the purpose of this forum is: to make me laugh.


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## Airgap

The install looks good....the picture itself is pretty crappy Sell some of them Nibco's and get a decent camera already....:laughing:


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## GREENPLUM

was there any tax credits or anything for this install?


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## SPH

galvo here would be a big no no, also 2lb regs must be installed horizontally, and there should be a union before the reg.


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## Titan Plumbing

I didn't know you were in the gutter business too..................nice downspout


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## TheMaster

SPH said:


> galvo here would be a big no no, also 2lb regs must be installed horizontally, and there should be a union before the reg.


This 2lb reg can be installed in any position, per manufacturer.
Why should there be a union before the reg? Theres one at the unit where it should be and the valve is below the reg.....to service it.
Galvo is perfectly legal here and that pipe was pressure tested to 100psi for 1 hr. during lunch.


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## TheMaster

I'd like to know the actual btu the unit runs for a 65 degree temp rise and an 85 degree temp rise.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

TheMaster said:


> I'd like to know the actual btu the unit runs for a 65 degree temp rise and an 85 degree temp rise.



Look in the manual.:laughing:


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## TheMaster

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Look in the manual.:laughing:


 Thats a low blow when you know i cant read plus i dont have time....i have another one to install today and I was so disgusted with those isolator valves i built my own lastnight. Oh BTW I thought i told you to STFU now listen to the whisperer:laughing::jester:


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## SewerRatz

TheMaster said:


> I'd like to know the actual btu the unit runs for a 65 degree temp rise and an 85 degree temp rise.


 The BTU will depend on two things the degree rise as well as how much the flow rate is. But it will not go over the max BTU's of the unit.

Now your flow rates do change with the degree rise. 65º rise will get you around 5.2 gpm 85º rise will get you 3.8 gpm


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## Protech

No straps on the water lines? What's the black line coming up out of the ground? counter strike(by trac pipe)?

Your water lines are un-strapped and way out of plumb. I run PEX and mine don't look like that.


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## RealLivePlumber

He said the Tard, with a capital T

Thats some funny $hit right there!:laughing:


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> No straps on the water lines? What's the black line coming up out of the ground? counter strike(by trac pipe)?
> 
> Your water lines are un-strapped and way out of plumb. I run PEX and mine don't look like that.


The 1st pic was not complete........The lines are straight and strapped and covered in the last pic i posted...however the gutter flexed alittle when it was strapped. The H.O. actually got more than they asked or expected. The "black pipe" is insulation wrapped with al tape and painted black so it doesn't look like ****!!!! shining aluminum....i insulated it because its in gravel...I brought the insulation all the way up because i dont want termite spray getting to it as the pipe follows the foundation.


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## TheMaster

The main feed before the regulator is 1/2" i.d copper type L soft.


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## Protech

Oh my bad, I missed the second pic somehow 



TheMaster said:


> The 1st pic was not complete........The lines are straight and strapped and covered in the last pic i posted...however the gutter flexed alittle when it was strapped. The H.O. actually got more than they asked or expected. The "black pipe" is insulation wrapped with al tape and painted black so it doesn't look like ****!!!! shining aluminum....i insulated it because its in gravel...I brought the insulation all the way up because i dont want termite spray getting to it as the pipe follows the foundation.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Oh my bad, I missed the second pic somehow


 Well its still not perfect...I tried to talk them into letting me cut the sheetrock and run the pipes down the wall and out under the unit. This would have cut down on the time it takes to get hot water and been a very neat job. I advised the best way.....but I'm not gonna walk away and not do it when they will just call sombody who will. I also told them if they change their minds later and want to run the pipes in the wall they can at anytime and it will be the best it can be but it works fine the way we did it.


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## SPH

TheMaster said:


> This 2lb reg can be installed in any position, per manufacturer.
> Why should there be a union before the reg? Theres one at the unit where it should be and the valve is below the reg.....to service it.
> Galvo is perfectly legal here and that pipe was pressure tested to 100psi for 1 hr. during lunch.


 
just for curiousity sake, who is the manufacturer of that 2lb reg?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

SPH said:


> just for curiousity sake, who is the manufacturer of that 2lb reg?



I use a lot of Maxitrol's.


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## TheMaster

SPH said:


> just for curiousity sake, who is the manufacturer of that 2lb reg?


 I have no idea. I purchased it from the gas supplier here and the instructions said it can be installed in any position as well did the counter man. I checked my receipt but it has only their stock number and a price. The maxitrols can also be installed in any position. The vertical positon with the pressure adjustment screw upright may be a prefered method of install but any position is acceptable. Just like some of my ex girlfriends:laughing:


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## futz

SPH said:


> galvo here would be a big no no,


Yes. Absolutely not allowed in B.C. We paint our outdoor pipes for corrosion protection here. Lovely Tremclad grey.



SPH said:


> also 2lb regs must be installed horizontally,


Not so. Regs can be installed in any orientation. What's causing you to think they need to be horizontal is our local inspectors' demand that the vent restrictor be oriented that way. I guess it's in the code somewhere - I don't know where - I don't do enough gas anymore to keep up with their constant changes. Guys who install the regs vertically just put a street elbow in the vent opening and screw the restrictor into that.

Anyway, an outdoor reg shouldn't need a vent restrictor anyway (or should it?...). Just aim that screen down so the reg doesn't fill up with rainwater. 



SPH said:


> and there should be a union before the reg.


I've never heard of any such rule.


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## Master Mark

*Nice install....*

Thats a nice install, but it makes me wonder...

I know that the AC unit is outside, 
with a cage around most of it....

what keeps this tankless from being messed with
 if some kid wanted to have some fun with a bb gun.. ?? 
softball, base ball bat>>



it seems that their ought to be some sort of cage that can be put over that whole unit and anchored to the wall to completely protect it from tampering...
 just about anyone including kids could mess around with it...





she says she dont get along with her neighbors, right??


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## TheMaster

Master Mark said:


> Thats a nice install, but it makes me wonder...
> 
> I know that the AC unit is outside,
> with a cage around most of it....
> 
> what keeps this tankless from being messed with
> if some kid wanted to have some fun with a bb gun.. ??
> softball, base ball bat>>
> 
> 
> 
> it seems that their ought to be some sort of cage that can be put over that whole unit and anchored to the wall to completely protect it from tampering...
> just about anyone including kids could mess around with it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> she says she dont get along with her neighbors, right??


The 5,000.00 front door would be a better target. And thats prolly a lowball number.


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## Protech

Why no galvi on gas?



futz said:


> Yes. Absolutely not allowed in B.C. We paint our outdoor pipes for corrosion protection here. Lovely Tremclad grey.
> 
> 
> Not so. Regs can be installed in any orientation. What's causing you to think they need to be horizontal is our local inspectors' demand that the vent restrictor be oriented that way. I guess it's in the code somewhere - I don't know where - I don't do enough gas anymore to keep up with their constant changes. Guys who install the regs vertically just put a street elbow in the vent opening and screw the restrictor into that.
> 
> Anyway, an outdoor reg shouldn't need a vent restrictor anyway (or should it?...). Just aim that screen down so the reg doesn't fill up with rainwater.
> 
> 
> I've never heard of any such rule.


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## SlickRick

Protech said:


> Why no galvi on gas?


Inspector here told me no galvy. I told him to show me in the code where I could not use it. It was not there. I used it, the gas co. does


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## SewerRatz

I was wondering if any of you guys do this when cutting in a tee for a gas line. I was taught that when you cut in a tee for a branch line that you point it up and use a 90º to shoot the line in the direction you want it.

Here is a pic I found on the net that shows what I am talking about.


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## SlickRick

Nothing wrong either way. A swing joint makes it easier to adjust a little if you need to.


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## user2091

I only use teflon tape on gas fittings. That's a bit messy but it works. 
Cut in a left right nipple and your good!


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## Pipedoc

SewerRatz said:


> I was wondering if any of you guys do this when cutting in a tee for a gas line. I was taught that when you cut in a tee for a branch line that you point it up and use a 90º to shoot the line in the direction you want it.
> 
> Here is a pic I found on the net that shows what I am talking about.


 I always jump up into the joist like that. 

Do you drop your tees for fixtures or do you point your tee up and 90 over and down?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

bigdaddyplumber said:


> I only use teflon tape on gas fittings. That's a bit messy but it works.
> Cut in a left right nipple and your good!


Cant use teflon on gas here.


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## Airgap

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Cant use teflon on gas here.


No Teflon tape here either...stops up orifices


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## SlickRick

Airgap said:


> No Teflon tape here either...stops up orifices


Tape and dope. 2 heavy 18" ( red ones) no leaks. Have to use rust bust it To break it loose.


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## Airgap

slickrick said:


> Tape and dope. 2 heavy 18" ( red ones) no leaks. Have to use rust bust it To break it loose.


 You're right, I forgot about the heavy red exceptions...:thumbsup:


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Why no galvi on gas?


They say that the galvy coating will seal defective pipe like the pipe has pinholes but the galvy coating seals it...but later it leaks. I have found this 1st hand but its rare and i have only found it on cheap ass foreign pipe.



slickrick said:


> Inspector here told me no galvy. I told him to show me in the code where I could not use it. It was not there. I used it, the gas co. does


Dont you love doin that....I have done things like that alot! 



Airgap said:


> No Teflon tape here either...stops up orifices


 if you put it on the pipe correctly it does not cause a problem. The 1st thread or two should NOT get teflon or it will cut itself off and end up in the pipe.


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## TheMaster

The Gas co here uses some green pipe dope.....man that stuff gets on you its hard to get off. I need to find out the name of it...anyone here know? It some damn good dope


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## Ron

Rector Seal #5


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> Rector Seal #5


 I use rectorseal #5 and like it for an allpurpose dope but the mean green pipe dope is better for iron pipe....I will try to get some and send you a can Ron. You'll like it.:thumbsup:


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## Ron

I know rector seal if though to get off your cloths also. Sticky stuff.


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## TheMaster

people use to use oil and putty to make pipe dope and my grandfather used lead based paint back in the 30's and 40's. The pressure was so low on the gas pipe and they would tightend the crap outta it..infact the pressure was so low back then that you almost didn't need any sealant at all.


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## 422 plumber

TheMaster said:


> The Gas co here uses some green pipe dope.....man that stuff gets on you its hard to get off. I need to find out the name of it...anyone here know? It some damn good dope


Is it Key-tite? I copied this from their website.

This viscous sealant cannot be equaled for leak proof
sealing of threaded, flanged, and gasket joints.
Use Key-Tite in flow lines for hot and cold water,
aqueous solutions, low pressure steam slurries,
natural and manufactured gases, compressed air,
filled products*, dilute acids and caustics and alcohols.
Key-Tite seals effectively without cementing because
it is a film forming, non-hardening compound.
It also acts as a lubricant and protects pipe threads
from rusting and seizing.
Key-Tite is dark green and consists of vegetable and
mineral oils and prime and extender pigments, plus
an anti-oxidant.
Key-Tite contains no lead or other toxic ingredients,
and will not affect the taste or color of water or any
other potable liquid.
You never need to stir Key-Tite. It remains soft and
pliable and will not settle or dry out in its container.
A little goes a very long way.
Temperature range: From -50°F to 450°F.
Sizes: 1/2 pint Dope Kit with applicator brush in cap,
48 per case,
1-pint can, 24 per case,
1-quart can, 12 per case,
1-gallon can, 4 per case,
5-gallon pail,
500-lb. drum.
* Approved by US Department of Agriculture for meat and poultry.
Industry approved for most food and processing applications;
however, for specific services, recommendation should be
obtained from the factory.
See KEY-TITE & KEY GRAPHITE Lading Guide, pages 4 through 7.
KEY-TITE CHARACTERISTICS
Viscosity strokes at 77°F 650-750
Toxicity None
Metal Adhesion Excellent
Stability Good
Corrosion-copper strip method None
Free alkali-maximum 0.5%
Moisture-maximum 0.2%


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## Protech

Is that some local ordinance or something? Not in the state code that I know of.



ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Cant use teflon on gas here.


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## TheMaster

Yes JJbex I think thats it!


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## Protech

I've not heard of that. We can use galvi here for gas but it does have one down side, people tend to cut into it not knowing it's a gas line(thinking water).



TheMaster said:


> They say that the galvy coating will seal defective pipe like the pipe has pinholes but the galvy coating seals it...but later it leaks. I have found this 1st hand but its rare and i have only found it on cheap ass foreign pipe.
> 
> 
> Dont you love doin that....I have done things like that alot!
> 
> 
> if you put it on the pipe correctly it does not cause a problem. The 1st thread or two should NOT get teflon or it will cut itself off and end up in the pipe.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Is that some local ordinance or something? Not in the state code that I know of.


 He makes up codes like slickricks inspector.:laughing:


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## user4

TheMaster said:


> They say that the galvy coating will seal defective pipe like the pipe has pinholes but the galvy coating seals it...but later it leaks. I have found this 1st hand but its rare and i have only found it on cheap ass foreign pipe.


In some areas the odorant added to Natural Gas will attack the Zinc in the galvanized coating, causing it to flake and clog control valves on appliances.


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## SlickRick

Protech said:


> I've not heard of that. We can use galvi here for gas but it does have one down side, people tend to cut into it not knowing it's a gas line(thinking water).


Maybe the mith comes from the day when they were using galvy for water? Just gone on all these years. Like "don't pick your nose, your brains will fallout... Don't run gas in galvy.. You might tie your water to it.


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## TheMaster

I've found it atleast 5 or 6 times and its a ***** to find because you normally check the joints first and its alot of tiny leaks not all together maybe but one every 5 or 6 feet and all the little leaks looks like a big leak on the gauge.......we soaped all the joints found nothing so we started soaping the pipe and thats what se found. It always foreign pipe and the dies would not hardly get started to thread it...The od was a tiny bit bigger than domestic pipe.


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## SlickRick

Killertoiletspider said:


> In some areas the odorant added to Natural Gas will attack the Zinc in the galvanized coating, causing it to flake and clog control valves on appliances.


You should not have said that..PROTECH...


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## 422 plumber

Key-tite is great stuff. I got a can from a coal burner power plant, that's all they use on threaded pipe.


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## SlickRick

TheMaster said:


> I've found it atleast 5 or 6 times and its a ***** to find because you normally check the joints first and its alot of tiny leaks not all together maybe but one every 5 or 6 feet and all the little leaks looks like a big leak on the gauge.......we soaped all the joints found nothing so we started soaping the pipe and thats what se found. It always foreign pipe and the dies would not hardly get started to thread it...The od was a tiny bit bigger than domestic pipe.


That can't be right. I was told I was the only one that had ever had a problem with import pipe, when I returned 3000 ft of it..


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## user4

Reed block dies will usually tell you if the pipe is not to size.


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## ILPlumber

jjbex said:


> Key-tite is great stuff. I got a can from a coal burner power plant, that's all they use on threaded pipe.


It is good stuff Jeff. The warehouse for American shipments of keytite is in Mobile, AL TheMaster. You could swing by and pick some up.


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## SlickRick

I was ripping the seams apart.


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## TheMaster

Killertoiletspider said:


> In some areas the odorant added to Natural Gas will attack the Zinc in the galvanized coating, causing it to flake and clog control valves on appliances.


 I tell ya seems like they could stop that in all areas of the country if they can stop it in one area. We dont have a problem like that here. Glad to know the info about others tho!:thumbsup:


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## user4

TheMaster said:


> I tell ya seems like they could stop that in all areas of the country if they can stop it in one area. We dont have a problem like that here. Glad to know the info about others tho!:thumbsup:


Natural Gas properties vary across the country, hence the need for odorants having properties that work best with the gas in that area, Chevron alone makes about sixty different odorant formulas.


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## TheMaster

If the oderant attacks the zinc and you use black iron do you pitch the line? What about rust? I've had to replace black iron here under a house because it was full of rust. We used copper and converted it to a 2lb system.


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## user4

TheMaster said:


> If the oderant attacks the zinc and you use black iron do you pitch the line? What about rust? I've had to replace black iron here under a house because it was full of rust. We used copper and converted it to a 2lb system.


No, with black steel pipe you provide a drip leg at every connection, but gas will generally not rust pipe from within, black steel pipe rusts from the outside in.


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## TheMaster

Killertoiletspider said:


> No, with black steel pipe you provide a drip leg at every connection, but gas will generally not rust pipe from within, black steel pipe rusts from the outside in.


I realize it will rust on the outside but this black pipe rusted on the inside and was clogging up the furnace gas control valve. It was a low pressure system and low pressure systems here have moisture in them the gas company says so anyway. I've never found a high pressure house line that had water in it. 90% of the appliances here do not have a drip....I always install a drip at the appliance.


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## SPH

futz said:


> Yes. Absolutely not allowed in B.C. We paint our outdoor pipes for corrosion protection here. Lovely Tremclad grey.
> 
> 
> Not so. Regs can be installed in any orientation. What's causing you to think they need to be horizontal is our local inspectors' demand that the vent restrictor be oriented that way. I guess it's in the code somewhere - I don't know where - I don't do enough gas anymore to keep up with their constant changes. Guys who install the regs vertically just put a street elbow in the vent opening and screw the restrictor into that.
> 
> Anyway, an outdoor reg shouldn't need a vent restrictor anyway (or should it?...). Just aim that screen down so the reg doesn't fill up with rainwater.
> 
> 
> I've never heard of any such rule.


It is a code requirement to have 2lb regs installed on the horizontal, check with the Safety Authority and he will tell you the same thing. There was an ammendment to the code in 2006. You also are not allowed to put elbows on the vent line to make the restrictor horzontal. 

You should really check regularly for gas code ammendments if you are working with gas. It is your responsibilty as a gas fitter.

This is straight from the maxitrol website: 

The 325 Series is suitable for multi-positional mounting. But when using the vent limiting device, the regulator (325-3L, 325-5AL) must be mounted in a horizontal upright position. Install the regulator properly with gas flowing as indicated by the arrow on the casting (also see the Safety Warning Instructions bulletin).

Vent limiters can only be installed in regulators for which they are certified. Vent limiters must only be installed directly into the vent connection of the regulator without intermediate pipe or fittings.


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## ILPlumber

TheMaster said:


> If the oderant attacks the zinc and you use black iron do you pitch the line? What about rust? I've had to replace black iron here under a house because it was full of rust. We used copper and converted it to a 2lb system.


 
Yes, you do pitch the line. To a drip leg. Always.


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## TheMaster

Here on the 2lb systems NOBODY uses drips.


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## TheMaster

ILPlumber said:


> Yes, you do pitch the line. To a drip leg. Always.


 Il I'ma take some pic's of a 2lb gas system thats gonna blow your mind. Its terrible and I see it ALL the time. I will be going to this house at the end of the upcoming week. Its a spider web of 2lb gas piping with 3/8 od copper. The house is 8 years old.


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