# what's the "right" way to trim a caulk joint?



## localguy630 (Jan 26, 2012)

I've done a few caulk joints. Really just shower drains and flanges. After I pack and pour, then I bevel both edges inside and out now I'm wondering if that's the right way to do it. I don't have a proper set of irons, and there's not alot of guys (that I know) who have done that kind of work. As an apprentice I remember being told that the oakem makes the joint. Is that to say the lead doesn't. I haven't had any problems, but I always want to do things the right way.


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## mpot (Oct 2, 2012)

Yes. Oakum makes the 'seal'. I was always taught to pack the joint tightly leaving only about 1/2" for lead. 
As far as using the correct irons...I was never really told how to use them. I have a full set and typically only use two or three different irons. Like you I only pack and pour flanges, very very very rarely I come across a shower flange that I choose to re-pack and pour.


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## mpot (Oct 2, 2012)

I don't know if this is considered cheating? but I always use a 4" test plug to make the pour perfect. Works well.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Mpot is correct.. 

I've never beveled edges. That's the first I've heard of it.


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

the joint should be packed with a packing iron, then set with a driving iron with oakum leaving 1" for lead. the lead pour should be continuous. there are two different irons for caulking a poured joint, inside and outside, although you can use the inside iron for both, but yes you do caulk the inside and outside. these are the basic irons youd use to make a lead joint, although there are many other that have specific uses.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

In a nutshell a typical poured lead joint on B + S pipe should have 1" of lead,oakum inserted with yarning iron,overlapping each piece of oakum by 1/2"-1" as it's inserted,packed with wide packing iron to within 1" of top,pour lead,set lead on 4 sides with wide packing iron,inside iron used first to set lead around entire joint at pipe followed by outside iron at hub,finished joint should have a raised area in the center of the lead around the joint from the inside/outside irons.


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## mpot (Oct 2, 2012)

davjowett said:


> the joint should be packed with a packing iron, then set with a driving iron with oakum leaving 1" for lead. the lead pour should be continuous. there are two different irons for caulking a poured joint, inside and outside, although you can use the inside iron for both, but yes you do caulk the inside and outside. these are the basic irons youd use to make a lead joint, although there are many other that have specific uses.


Im familiar with the irons that have the bevels. Some have offsets all sorts of odd angles in my set. I've always done insides outsides pretty much all of it. 
I wont claim to be right with the "1/2" lead" part because that was taught to me from an old timer mentor not a book or actual approved anything. 
Is this the case for you? Or were you quoting a instruction manual of some sort?


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## davjowett (Jan 22, 2012)

Its in the philadelphia plumbing code and it is what i was taught as an apprentice in school. We still pack and pour in philly for all commercial and any residential over 3 stories.


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## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

mpot said:


> Im familiar with the irons that have the bevels. Some have offsets all sorts of odd angles in my set. I've always done insides outsides pretty much all of it.
> I wont claim to be right with the "1/2" lead" part because that was taught to me from an old timer mentor not a book or actual approved anything.
> Is this the case for you? Or were you quoting a instruction manual of some sort?



The 1" depth is based on the design of a C.I. hub,if you look at one you'll see that 1/2" of lead wont really fill the top of the hub in a way that locks the lead in place(it really acts as a cork for the oakum).


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Inside/outside irons and then "half moons" between inside and outside bevel.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Never have done that that's gonna be on my bucket list


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## localguy630 (Jan 26, 2012)

Hey guys, thanks for the imput. Love the knowledge. When I was in school they had stopped teaching it, said you'll never need it. However the old man I worked under during my apprenticeship was always happy to do the "old style" joints usaully with a worn out screwdriver  I lost a bet one time, he bet me he could cut iron with a chisel. He sure did, clean too. After I bought coffee be shared with me that that's how you used to do it. Boy, sure miss that grouchy old ******* sometimes.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Poured one today, first one for me in a year or better. Our code used to say the lead had to be a minimum of 1" deep, run in in one pour, and fill the hub.
I always use the inside and outside iron, checker the top with a chisel and if there is a piece hanging over the top of the hub I trim it with a hacksaw.


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## plumberdad70 (Sep 29, 2012)

back in the day your caulking irons would have your initials in the hash marks. i have my grandfathers irons and he told me that is how they would know who ran the joint if there was a problem.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Yep back then they would cut their cast iron pipe with a chisel. EVERY PIECE  There used to be a fair amount of skill and hard azz labor in our trade compared to now. :yes:


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I remember 25 years ago asking my uncle and another old timer which to pack first, inside or outside. They contradicted each other. But, inside first is how I do it. 99% of my lead joints are on closet rings which are a little more user friendly than SW bell and spigot.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Pipe Rat said:


> Yep back then they would cut their cast iron pipe with a chisel. EVERY PIECE  There used to be a fair amount of skill and hard azz labor in our trade compared to now. :yes:


I'm with you on the hard labor part but, while our material has gotten easier to work with, we are asked to do more with it. I've never seen an old home with the stacks run tight to the wall with the underfloor in a joist space. Modern work is a mental challenge to get it to fit as tightly as possible so basements can be finished. The old style was put everything around the plumbing. Today it's fit the plumbing around everything else.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

This is a Bill Parr thread.


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

I agree with RW you can't do the work we do in the spaces we doit today really I would almost never pack and pour a joint today NOBODY is going to pay for it I'll pack a joint and use plastic seal an epoxy type compound if they had the technology we have today they wouldn't have done either it's nice to be nostalgic about the way things used to be done but as soon as they found quicker more efficient way to do things they did. Old B S ways of doing things doesn't save jobs or make those who do it more knollageable it just waste time lets move foward


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I never took pictures of the cast iron joints I poured on a job. But i did take pictures of the one i did for the project my mother tasked me with. The old mailbox pole was a 6x6 that started to rot away, being it was nearly 30 years old and never been treated or painted. So I decided to use some left over cast iron I had from a past job.

The joint is not perfefect, I did use an inside and outside irons, but I did it real fast, not worring to much about it.


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## localguy630 (Jan 26, 2012)

Supercool. I want one.


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## TerryO (Oct 12, 2012)

Man SewRatz that makes me jealous. I thought mine was nice using 4" square steel tubing. Now I wish it done something like that.

Terry Ohlmann / www.ActionAirPlumbing.com


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> I never took pictures of the cast iron joints I poured on a job. But i did take pictures of the one i did for the project my mother tasked me with. The old mailbox pole was a 6x6 that started to rot away, being it was nearly 30 years old and never been treated or painted. So I decided to use some left over cast iron I had from a past job.
> 
> The joint is not perfefect, I did use an inside and outside irons, but I did it real fast, not worring to much about it.


 Pretty cool Ratz, but may not be legal. Our postal guy said they have to "give" in the event of an accident. We aren't even allowed to cement our boxes in, maybe regional? cool none the less.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Pretty cool Ratz, but may not be legal. Our postal guy said they have to "give" in the event of an accident. We aren't even allowed to cement our boxes in, maybe regional? cool none the less.


Maybe it is regional. I've got a neighbor that has a solid concrete post poured in a 24" sonitube. He got really tired of it being knocked over every week. It has been up for quite a while and he still gets his mail.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Protech said:


> This is a Bill Parr thread.


Sorry for not getting in on this sooner. I was taught first to yarn in the ockum [yarning tool], then pack tight with [packing tool & 12 oz. ball peen], pour the joint [one pour -- joint runner if horizontal], caulk the joint tight using [inside & outside caulk irons -- trim the joint if poured with a runner [usually with a floor chisel] ... Lots of special irons were available [offset irons, upside down irons and what-not]. I did work with a guy [came from orange county NJ] was taught not to caulk lead joints.
He tighted the joints up by trimming [a trim chisel was used] [a long steel chisel with a steel handel to tap on] you would trim about a 30 degree angel groove around the hub and also trim a grove around the pipe -- this believe it or not tighted the joint probably better than caulking. 
Pipe when I apprenticed was XH, then it evolved to Service Weight [SV], however it was a cast pipe one side could be thick the other side could be thin, and yes it was cut with a chisel -- the talon cutter was then invented -- a chain of wheels, a tighting wheel handle and a spring, and a handel to twist it back and forth then tighted the wheel handle a bit more the twist it back and forth some more until it snapped. Hell I could cut it faster with a chisel. Next came spin casting now the pipe had a uniform thickness then came covering it with tar. Next came the REED cutter -- that was faster than the chisel, next was gasketed joints, then no/hub.
Then Plastics -- Then all the other good [??] stuff. Don't forget the home made lead mallets ... 

End of rant!


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Pretty cool Ratz, but may not be legal. Our postal guy said they have to "give" in the event of an accident. We aren't even allowed to cement our boxes in, maybe regional? cool none the less.


Some subdivisions I go to have brick posts enclosed around the mailbox.

This will give if hit the pipe is hollow, and imho the pipe will break away better than a 4x4


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> Some subdivisions I go to have brick posts enclosed around the mailbox.
> 
> This will give if hit the pipe is hollow, and imho the pipe will break away better than a 4x4


Not if you fill the CI with concrete. :brows:


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

Lead and oakum joints are the norm for work in public schools here. So much for worker safety. We use XHCI pipe and fittings. I also use white oakum which packs really well and is extra insurance because we have to do a 10' head test every time. All of our roof drains are caulked, but I prefer to peen the lead smooth so the joint does not hold any water.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

When is ther gonna be a class in Texas to teach how to caulk a lead joint?? Never ?? Lol. I want to learn and to wipe a joint. But probably never will. Not like it's a skill I would use but still want to know how.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*tmp*

google "how to wipe a lead joint". "lead wiping" on youtube. ps no holes in your pants. well i guess you can if you want. i can lead a car. old ones with real steel bodies. billy


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