# Water piping demand factor for a dental office...



## plumbcrazy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

Was wondering if anyone knew if a dental office would be classified as a General Business ( Demand factor 0.25) or General Industrial ( Demand factor 0.90). This is in relation to sizing water piping.

Thanks!


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

Please post and intro!


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> Was wondering if anyone knew if a dental office would be classified as a General Business ( Demand factor 0.25) or General Industrial ( Demand factor 0.90). This is in relation to sizing water piping.
> 
> Thanks!


It is known, but .....


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## plumbcrazy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

Ah an intro, right... My name is Danny, 30yrs old from Salem , Mass. Got my Journeymans and masters about seven years ago, worked for other people most of the time thus far, but got an opportunity to jump into Dental Offices. Never done one before so im a bit nervous but im going to give it my best. this is probably the first of many questions ill be posting on here regarding dental offices. Thanks in advance guys!


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> Ah an intro, right... My name is Danny, 30yrs old from Salem , Mass. Got my Journeymans and masters about seven years ago, worked for other people most of the time thus far, but got an opportunity to jump into Dental Offices. Never done one before so im a bit nervous but im going to give it my best. this is probably the first of many questions ill be posting on here regarding dental offices. Thanks in advance guys!


Shouldn't there be a plan? Every commercial job I've done has had blue prints showing pipe and fixtures, spec'ing out whole job. Also building inspector (or health dept) should be able to give you an idea what is required.


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## plumbcrazy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

Yes i have the plumbing and mechanical prints, it shows fixture locations but not pipe layout and sizing. This is in an existing structure, so Im trying to see if the water main is adequate to handle 15 Dental sinks, 12 Operatories, and two bathrooms...I know on bigger jobs I have worked in the past at schools and parking garages, engineers lay everything out and size it, not on a smaller job like this. Engineers should stick to driving trains anyway...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumb Bob said:


> Shouldn't there be a plan? Every commercial job I've done has had blue prints showing pipe and fixtures, spec'ing out whole job. Also building inspector (or health dept) should be able to give you an idea what is required.


Water supplies with rzp are the least of my worry.. its the drain/wastes need to be spec'd . Dental waste can be nasty!


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> Engineers should stick to driving trains anyway...


Think you hired the wrong engineer.

Any journeyman or master plumber should be able to calculate the fixture units using there code book.


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## plumbcrazy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

Yah im not saying I dont know how to size the water piping, im asking for which demand factor to use when sizing it. And there is really no need for an engineer. When the state or someone is spending millions on a job they have engineers spec things out to cover there asses, these prints are done by an architect/designer I believe.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> Yah im not saying I dont know how to size the water piping, im asking for which demand factor to use when sizing it. And there is really no need for an engineer. When the state or someone is spending millions on a job they have engineers spec things out to cover there asses, these prints are done by an architect/designer I believe.



Fess up.....you don't have a code book, do you?:blink:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

PinkPlumber said:


> Fess up.....you don't have a code book, do you?:blink:


Code book...WTH is that?


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## plumbcrazy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

I dont have a code book?!? What does this have to do with anything? I have a Mass Code Book right next to me, which I might add is one of the strictest codes in this country. If the answer was in the code book, I wouldnt ask it here. It does not specifically say anywhere if a dental office is considered a general business, or a industrial business. Im guessing industrial, but I suppose I'll have to ask the inspector. You guys are about as useful as tits on a bull.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> I dont have a code book?!? What does this have to do with anything? I have a Mass Code Book right next to me, which I might add is one of the strictest codes in this country. If the answer was in the code book, I wouldnt ask it here. It does not specifically say anywhere if a dental office is considered a general business, or a industrial business. Im guessing industrial, but I suppose I'll have to ask the inspector. You guys are about as useful as tits on a bull.


 Is the hair salon general or industrial business?? Common senses prevail almost everything, including those teats on bull.


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## plumbcrazy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Is the hair salon general or industrial business?? Common senses prevail almost everything, including those teats on bull.


thanks for your nugget of wisdom oh wise one.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> I dont have a code book?!? What does this have to do with anything? I have a Mass Code Book right next to me, which I might add is one of the strictest codes in this country. If the answer was in the code book, I wouldnt ask it here. It does not specifically say anywhere if a dental office is considered a general business, or a industrial business. Im guessing industrial, but I suppose I'll have to ask the inspector. You guys are about as useful as tits on a bull.


 






No need for insults, especially from a guy who shows up here the first day looking for help......:no:

If you don't know whether it's general commercial of industrial, just err on the side of caution. Size the water piping as if it were the larger or more voluminous setting. So if classifying it one way means an 1 1/4" service, and classifying it the other way would result in an 1 1/2" service, then I'd go with the 1 1/2" water service and you'll be golden.....:thumbsup:


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## plumbcrazy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> No need for insults, especially from a guy who shows up here the first day looking for help......:no:
> 
> If you don't know whether it's general commercial of industrial, just err on the side of caution. Size the water piping as if it were the larger or more voluminous setting. So if classifying it one way means an 1 1/4" service, and classifying it the other way would result in an 1 1/2" service, then I'd go with the 1 1/2" water service and you'll be golden.....:thumbsup:



Thanks, not trying to insult anyone, just jokin around. But it seems like I asked a question and seemed like the responses have nothing really to do with the question I asked....telling me an engineer needs to size everything for me, or telling me I dont have a code book. Like I said this is my first dental office so I want everything perfect. I figured it was going to be industrial but figured Id throw it out there. Thanks for your response tommy.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> Thanks, not trying to insult anyone, just jokin around. But it seems like I asked a question and seemed like the responses have nothing really to do with the question I asked....telling me an engineer needs to size everything for me, or telling me I dont have a code book. Like I said this is my first dental office so I want everything perfect. I figured it was going to be industrial but figured Id throw it out there. Thanks for your response tommy.


Here's why you got the bizness. It is expected that all who join post an intro, and until that is done...all hell breaks loose on their posts/questions.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

And that would be Ms. Bulltits to you....


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## plumbcrazy81 (Jun 17, 2012)

And i thought I was done with plumbing related hazing, hahah thanks, this is kindof like when I sent an apprentice to the supply house for a roll of Fallopian Tubing???? (they said they were all out and it was Backordered)


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> And i thought I was done with plumbing related hazing, hahah thanks, this is kindof like when I sent an apprentice to the supply house for a roll of Fallopian Tubing???? (they said they were all out and it was Backordered)


 







Good one. I never heard that one. I have heard of sending the helper/apprentice to get a cup of steam or the pipe stretcher but never fallopian tubing......:laughing:


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## Tim`s Plumbing (Jan 17, 2012)

I would check with the inspector I looked my self and one thing he may make you do is have 2 water meters with seperate lines coming into the building if he feels it is more of a hospital than a general business.


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> Good one. I never heard that one. I have heard of sending the helper/apprentice to get a cup of steam or the pipe stretcher but never fallopian tubing......:laughing:


 
LMFAO!!!! I cant stop laughing at those!!! Golden!!! :laughing:


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

I have to admit. That was funny!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Tim`s Plumbing said:


> I would check with the inspector I looked my self and one thing he may make you do is have 2 water meters with seperate lines coming into the building if he feels it is more of a hospital than a general business.


Around here it may be one meter and two backwater valves. I would also phone the inspector. Although it will say on the prints what has been accepted by everyone already and is usually not changed by the inspector. I hope you have a stamped set of plans. I have been approached before for quotes with a set of generic plans that would never have been approved by the health department. I would have been up $#1ts creek.


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

Any medical gas lines in there,thats one of the main things to be concerned about.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Plans approved out of plan check don't mean squat where we are at,every county out here the inspector reads out of the UPC.He is responsible for making sure installation is to code.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

plumbcrazy81 said:


> And i thought I was done with plumbing related hazing, hahah thanks, this is kindof like when I sent an apprentice to the supply house for a roll of Fallopian Tubing???? (they said they were all out and it was Backordered)


Does the city not require an MEP engineer to size the sanitary/water/gas/mechanical system in your state . Does the city not require a riser diagram to be on the prints of the water/sewer system.I'd be willing to bet your insurance company wouldn't cover the job if they found out you designed any part of the system with out the proper state license's and endorsements.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

user7551 said:


> Does the city not require an MEP engineer to size the sanitary/water/gas/mechanical system in your state . Does the city not require a riser diagram to be on the prints of the water/sewer system.I'd be willing to bet your insurance company wouldn't cover the job if they found out you designed any part of the system with out the proper state license's and endorsements.


Well said. But it happens here. And you're right. I just bought insurance because I'm getting reared up to go out on my own. One of the things they asked me is "are you planning on doing any design/build type jobs." I said no, because of this exact reason you've explained. 
We should cherish this idea and not hate it. Residential is one thing, commercial is a whole different game. Why put yourself at risk. All it's going to do is put your reputation on the line. Why not let the engineers and architects put there reputation on the line, that's what they get paid for, and do it for a living, whether it's new or remodel, and I emphasize the word REMODEL. Either way, you have a scape goat, and you blame everything on either the engineer, the architect, or the owner when it comes to a change order. Let them deal with the fiasco. 
My old boss used to say that engineers don't let you think anymore. Is that so bad?? Especially for a rushed remodel commercial job when the owner is frantic to get the business up and running because he/she is afraid of the down time, and is out of "reality's touch" to realize that it needs some time and thought to get everything and everyone on the same page? 
Submittals???? Approval's by the architect/engineer/owner??? 
Okay, so you might lose the job to some other plumber who needs the work, bids it off lack of info, and give a proposal/scope of work/contract stating "Includes all plumbing":laughing::laughing::laughing:. But trust me, when it's not done right, either through the owners eyes or the inspectors eyes, you will eventually be getting the call to fix the problems, because you forewarned the owner and he/she got tired and frustrated for paying change orders that the "set in stone" bank financed loan won't cover.Nothing like bought experience. 
Good luck!:thumbup:


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