# Pre-apprentice soon



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

Hey everyone I'm new here and looki g for A bit of advice.

Here's the situation, I'm 17 currently attending a pre-apprenticeship program in Kansas. I complete in the next 2 months & have a lot of questions about becoming employed in the plumbing workforce. I'm planning on getting into service/residential & working hourly while I finish out my apprenticeship then depending on how things go possibly moving to commission based wages. One major concern of mine is being so young I turn 18 the beginning of august another is my size I'm 5' 11" 125 lbs so I'm a pretty small dude is that gonna be a disadvantage? Im a really hard worker, dedicated, & willing to do what it takes to succeed in this trade, planning on taking HVAC after my apprenticeship aswell. I've learned a lot these last 8 months in this program and I I'm one of the best in my shop.


Things I've worked with;

Copper (Soldering, Compression, Flaring & Propress) PEX, PVC (for Drain systems not pressure), Black Steele, Gastite (CSST), Running water distribution systems in a residential setting, Setting up drainage systems, Sinks, Faucets, & Drain Machines. 

Any advice? Thanks everyone I'm very anxious about this new part of my life.


----------



## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

My advice, go to the gym!!


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

AKdaplumba said:


> My advice, go to the gym!!


Alright will do thanks. Lol


----------



## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

Just learn everything you can. Listen to everyone, use your brain and stay focused on what you want. Sounds simple but it can be difficult. Being strong helps but i value a smart weaker plumber over a strong dumb one any day of the week. Try being both :thumbsup:


----------



## plumber101us (Feb 25, 2013)

where r u taking this pre apprentice program at in Kansas I have worked allover this state and this is the first I have ever heard of such a thing??????? I am in Topeka and would be willing to help you out with any questions you might have. private message me for my number if you want.


----------



## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I hope you don't mind tight spaces, cause if you're in a shop with a bunch of big ol' boys that's where you'll be spending most of your time...

Stick with the trade. It will pay off in the future. Learn everything you can. Listen well. 

Eat more cheeseburgers....j/k


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

plumber101us said:


> where r u taking this pre apprentice program at in Kansas I have worked allover this state and this is the first I have ever heard of such a thing??????? I am in Topeka and would be willing to help you out with any questions you might have. private message me for my number if you want.


Its in Manhattan Kansas, Flint hills job corps. Its for disadvantaged youth ages 16-25 our trade is funded by job corps but operated by HBI ( Home Builders Institute) we work under a very knowledgeable master plumber that sold his company to show the new age plumbing, quite a selfless sacrifice if you ask me.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

Airgap said:


> I hope you don't mind tight spaces, cause if you're in a shop with a bunch of big ol' boys that's where you'll be spending most of your time...
> 
> Stick with the trade. It will pay off in the future. Learn everything you can. Listen well.
> 
> Eat more cheeseburgers....j/k


I am a little bad in tight places tend to get a bit claustrophobic but I've had a bit of experience with this already and its nothing I can't manage. We was working in the children's dorm replacing a castiron double 90 (it was clogged at the fitting and the drain machine wouldn't go to the main drain but instead straight across and up towards the sink in the next room from the laundry room.). with a PVC wye with a street 90 on the top and a 45 off the branch while connecting the fittings I got told by this maintenance man to cock the fittings so I wouldn't get glue or primer on the floor.. HAHA didn't listen to a thing he said after.. anyway I had to get in under the wall to cut the cast iron line & while doing that I handed the grinder up to someone who was helping fix it the grinder since I was in the hole and he was having trouble so I got up from out under the wall and almost got my head cut in half cause he was holding it above me. The lack of thinking by him could've got me killed... (Sorry for rambling)


----------



## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

The fact that you are interested in getting down to it and are willing to work for it @ 17 say allot. 125 soaking wet?? Who gives a s%&t, knock it out of the park lil bro. Keep your head on straight and you can be very successful in this biz.


----------



## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

I weighed 130 (or less on a dry day) when I started out. Physical strength is not terribly important. Energy level is VERY important, the ability to learn and think is even more important.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> The fact that you are interested in getting down to it and are willing to work for it @ 17 say allot. 125 soaking wet?? Who gives a s%&t, knock it out of the park lil bro. Keep your head on straight and you can be very successful in this biz.


Thanks bro, thats really encouraging. Since I've changed my life I feel a lot more honest as a person. After telling someone wise how much I would like to be making eventually he said; "But are you going to make yourself worth that amount of money? Or wait for a handout and talk about it like most your age?"



phishfood said:


> I weighed 130 (or less on a dry day) when I started out. Physical strength is not terribly important. Energy level is VERY important, the ability to learn and think is even more important.


Looks I'm not the only one, I thought I might've been I'm the smallest in my shop but have passed over half of the people in my trade as far as percentage towards completion wise.


----------



## NewisCool (Apr 6, 2013)

Going through my second year now as an apprentice.

Took a pre-apprentice course in electrical. 9 months.

Ended up working as a OBM  long story.

It's been hard at times but for the most part:

If you love your work. The rest will follow :yes:


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

NewisCool said:


> Going through my second year now as an apprentice.
> 
> Took a pre-apprentice course in electrical. 9 months.
> 
> ...


After I complete I'll be done with my first year. What's an OBM?


----------



## NewisCool (Apr 6, 2013)

Oil Burner Mechanic. 

We are the plumbers here :whistling2: :laughing:

I'm thinking my next step is the Plumber / Gas Fitter Redseal


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

Your journeyman's? How long do you have to serve for it in your state? Here its 2 years.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

Your journeyman's? How long do you have to serve for it in your state? Here its 2 years.

Edit: Sorry double post, delete if possible. Thanks


----------



## NewisCool (Apr 6, 2013)

PlumbStax said:


> After I complete I'll be done with my first year. What's an OBM?


I'm not sure how it works there but I would think that:

After you finish the Pre-apprentice course. You have completed the 
education requirements for your First Year. 

You must still find a journeyman. Signup as a first year apprentice.
Then work for the specified number of hours. THEN you are done First Year.

Or does the 9 month course include work experience??


----------



## NewisCool (Apr 6, 2013)

PlumbStax said:


> Your journeyman's? How long do you have to serve for it in your state? Here its 2 years.


3 years for oil burner mechanic

4 years for plumber / gasfitter


----------



## NewisCool (Apr 6, 2013)

<<< Location


This is in Canada of course! So it'll be different :laughing:


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

NewisCool said:


> I'm not sure how it works there but I would think that:
> 
> After you finish the Pre-apprentice course. You have completed the
> education requirements for your First Year.
> ...


I will have been here a total of 10 months when I leave, in Kansas you have to serve under a master plumber to get signed off I believe. In this program we do 17 chapters of bookwork, have to complete 4 weeks of work base, he comes up with different projects for us as a class like installing 100ft sewer lines, we had to add multiple drains for new toilets in the shop so we can have them to work on. We also have a "house" pretty much a fake house with nothing but residential appliances we have to setup. Its about 85% hands on our instructor really looks out for his students he told me once "if I only taught plumbing my job would be easy but I teach hardwork and life skills. If you never plumb a day in your life & wanna work at McDonalds. I won't be mad but I want you to own that damn McDonalds in the next ten years."


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

NewisCool said:


> <<< Location
> 
> This is in Canada of course! So it'll be different :laughing:


Damn that's a lot of grunt work,  is test open book like it is here?


----------



## agonzales1981 (Mar 30, 2012)

Sounds like you're on your way. Keep working hard and you'll do well.


----------



## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

I would recommend you work in a new work shop to learn the plumbing code. It also makes your life much easier on the repair side if you actually have an idea of why something was done.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

Ghostmaker said:


> I would recommend you work in a new work shop to learn the plumbing code. It also makes your life much easier on the repair side if you actually have an idea of why something was done.


So what your saying is after this, work for a company that does new installation? Would that mean I would be doing a lot of industrial type plumbing work?


----------



## MDPlumber1977 (Mar 4, 2013)

PlumbStax said:


> So what your saying is after this, work for a company that does new installation? Would that mean I would be doing a lot of industrial type plumbing work?


Could not agree more with Ghost. Definitely try to get in with a solid new construction co. My personal opinion is that you should start with residential new construction. A house gives you the foundation for most of the plumbing you will run into on a smaller scale. There are typically no specific plumbing plans, so it is up to you to design and install the system. Of course there are plenty of things that are specific to the commercial and industrial market but Res. new. con. will allow you to learn allot about both plumbing and building code (especially structure- what you can and cant drill and just as important, how to coordinate your work with other trades. You will install all phases of the trade including groundwork, rough-in, trim and gas fitting not to mention servicing your installed product under warranty. If possible I would recommend a small shop that does allot of custom work and pairs you with a solid journeyman. Though it is still great learning, you don't want to get with a shop who pumps out new con homes like an assembly line and puts you on one specific task for years and doesn't really give you the opportunity to grow.


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

PlumbStax said:


> Hey everyone I'm new here and looki g for A bit of advice.
> 
> Here's the situation, I'm 17 currently attending a pre-apprenticeship program in Kansas. I complete in the next 2 months & have a lot of questions about becoming employed in the plumbing workforce. I'm planning on getting into service/residential & working hourly while I finish out my apprenticeship then depending on how things go possibly moving to commission based wages. One major concern of mine is being so young I turn 18 the beginning of august another is my size I'm 5' 11" 125 lbs so I'm a pretty small dude is that gonna be a disadvantage? Im a really hard worker, dedicated, & willing to do what it takes to succeed in this trade, planning on taking HVAC after my apprenticeship aswell. I've learned a lot these last 8 months in this program and I I'm one of the best in my shop.
> 
> ...


Late comer here, this one of the best intro from a newbie and a future plumber... welcome and stay away from ..


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

MDPlumber1977 said:


> Could not agree more with Ghost. Definitely try to get in with a solid new construction co. My personal opinion is that you should start with residential new construction. A house gives you the foundation for most of the plumbing you will run into on a smaller scale. There are typically no specific plumbing plans, so it is up to you to design and install the system. Of course there are plenty of things that are specific to the commercial and industrial market but Res. new. con. will allow you to learn allot about both plumbing and building code (especially structure- what you can and cant drill and just as important, how to coordinate your work with other trades. You will install all phases of the trade including groundwork, rough-in, trim and gas fitting not to mention servicing your installed product under warranty. If possible I would recommend a small shop that does allot of custom work and pairs you with a solid journeyman. Though it is still great learning, you don't want to get with a shop who pumps out new con homes like an assembly line and puts you on one specific task for years and doesn't really give you the opportunity to grow.


Thanks, I'm definitely going to take that into consideration and ask some of those questions when looking forj a job these next few months. By pumping new homes out like a Assembly line do you mean a company that takes on newly built homes with near the same floor plans so you don't have to problem solve no more its the same system setup every time? If I get put on jobs like that I would most likely look for new work.


----------



## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

PlumbStax said:


> Thanks, I'm definitely going to take that into consideration and ask some of those questions when looking forj a job these next few months. By pumping new homes out like a Assembly line do you mean a company that takes on newly built homes with near the same floor plans so you don't have to problem solve no more its the same system setup every time? If I get put on jobs like that I would most likely look for new work.


When you first start in a new work residential shop you will be assigned to a proven journeyman. When I first started you were given a pick and a shovel. Learning to dig a ditch and how to dig it smartly with pitch is usually the first lesson of a plumber.

You still have a lot to learn young grass hopper.... Before you fly you must learn to crawl. Good luck to you and just remember plumbing is for ever evolving as a trade. It is called a skilled trade for a reason...


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

Ghostmaker said:


> When you first start in a new work residential shop you will be assigned to a proven journeyman. When I first started you were given a pick and a shovel. Learning to dig a ditch and how to dig it smartly with pitch is usually the first lesson of a plumber.
> 
> You still have a lot to learn young grass hopper.... Before you fly you must learn to crawl. Good luck to you and just remember plumbing is for ever evolving as a trade. It is called a skilled trade for a reason...


That's why I took this pre-apprenticeship so I won't be completely lost when I get in the workforce that and I couldn't get a job til I'm 18 anyways so this is a good opportunity for a headstart. We're currently digging a ditch for a 100ft sewer line dug about 60ft in 6-7 hours today were working a 12 hour workday so we'll know what were gonna be doing after we leave lol. I'll post pics later

Thanks everyone, you guys will see me on the forums often. Going threw these threads had me realize I only know the smallest fraction of plumbing.


----------



## jc-htownplumber (Feb 29, 2012)

Most importantly protect your body. Their isn't may plumbers out their with a good back. Learn how to properly lift get you some knee pads and ear protection


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

jc-htownplumber said:


> Most importantly protect your body. Their isn't may plumbers out their with a good back. Learn how to properly lift get you some knee pads and ear protection


Thanks, I'm gonna try getting in better shape & work on better posture & lifting techniques.


----------



## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

I'm not sure how it works for you in Kansas but here in Iowa you need to do a four year apprenticeship through a certified apprenticeship program when I got out of my per apprentice program I went to work for a small town plumbing company and figured everybody knew that but it turned out they didn't I also figured they were paying for it and they weren't. No matter who you go and work for make sure you specify what your apprenticeship requirements are and who's paying for it them or you. Now I have to do another year when I could of been done this may


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

andy86 said:


> I'm not sure how it works for you in Kansas but here in Iowa you need to do a four year apprenticeship through a certified apprenticeship program when I got out of my per apprentice program I went to work for a small town plumbing company and figured everybody knew that but it turned out they didn't I also figured they were paying for it and they weren't. No matter who you go and work for make sure you specify what your apprenticeship requirements are and who's paying for it them or you. Now I have to do another year when I could of been done this may


A apprenticeship here is 2 years working under a master plumber (not sure if working under a journeyman counts.) We complete the program when we get all the requirements signed off but have to stay in the program for a minimum of 6 months. What did you figure they were paying for? & now you have to do another year in a pre-apprenticeship program? Does the union do pre-apprenticeships there? I believe here they do.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

Heres what our requirements are, did you have anything you worked with that I havent had to, to complete yours?









PS: does it show up big enough to see the text or let you zoom? Wouldn't let me on the forum app but did on my phones gallery


----------



## Pipe layer (Mar 10, 2013)

Stick with it! Sounds like you have decided to be a plumber. I made my mind up at 17 as well and was a journeyman at 19 and master at 20 then opened my own business at 25. It can be done with determination never loose that and you will do great!:thumbup:


----------



## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

2 years in plumbing and your a journeyman? Wow that is quick compared to what my program is....1 year of laboring, 3.5 years of day school , 10,000 on jobsite work hours, 180 night school hours, the write state exam after those requirements are completed. 5 year non union apprenticeship program in Wisconsin. Journey scale pay in the zone I'm located at is 32.50. I get to do residential and commercial too.


----------



## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

PlumbStax said:


> A apprenticeship here is 2 years working under a master plumber (not sure if working under a journeyman counts.) We complete the program when we get all the requirements signed off but have to stay in the program for a minimum of 6 months. What did you figure they were paying for? & now you have to do another year in a pre-apprenticeship program? Does the union do pre-apprenticeships there? I believe here they do.


Here if you are non union it is 4 years of an apprenticeship program and 8000 hours of on the job which if you work a 40 hour week it's no problem to do in 4 years. Our program is 6 months every year starting in jan and goes to may you have to go to the apprenticeship building for one week in jan and one week in may for face to face class time and the rest in between is online. Our program cost about 1600 every year and most employers we either pay all or some of that cost and may require you to sign a contract stating that you will work for them for a certain amount of years after if they do decide to pay for it. Some company's like mine will make you pay for it yourself. I didn't inform my employer of the requirements for my apprenticeship he just figured I needed hours so I was never signed up for my first year of the program. I'm now a 3rd year apprentice but would of been a 4th year had I been signed up. The union does not do a pre apprenticeship program that I know of and here there apprenticeship program is 5 years. I counted read your requirements but ours requires us to do a certain amount of hours each week doing installation, service, safety, use of tools, and a little bit of hydronics


----------



## andy86 (Mar 5, 2013)

moonapprentice said:


> 2 years in plumbing and your a journeyman? Wow that is quick compared to what my program is....1 year of laboring, 3.5 years of day school , 10,000 on jobsite work hours, 180 night school hours, the write state exam after those requirements are completed. 5 year non union apprenticeship program in Wisconsin. Journey scale pay in the zone I'm located at is 32.50. I get to do residential and commercial too.


32.50 for non union in Wisconsin!? Thats what our union guys make in Iowa I might have to move


----------



## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

I think union is higher by no more than 5 bucks and get better packages... but all the work right now here is non union.... union is pretty much dead.


----------



## Pipe layer (Mar 10, 2013)

Yeah here in Va. we had to have 2 years of school and 2 years on the job for our journeyman's. I don't remember the total number of hours needed because that was back in the late 80's. Then one year as a journeyman to get your master. And as far as i know that is still the same. Now there was a apprenticeship program that was either 3 or 4 years and it gave you alot more hours than you needed so I took the minimum amount of hours in school and then took my test. I will agree that you should go into new residential. Well that is if anyone in your area is building new homes. It will help you with learning your codes. Having to walk into a house with just a basic plan that only shows you where the plumbing fixtures are and having to design the system yourself is a great thing to know. When I was coming through the ranks alot of the service plumbers couldn't have plumbed a new house if their life depended on it.


----------



## plumber101us (Feb 25, 2013)

as oyu are probably aware of the union is out of Topeka and Wichita here in Kansas. They both have good apprentice programs. I would recommend getting with a union shop to continue your education here in Kansas if you decide to go Non-union there are several good schools Like the one out of Beloit to help you get more training. If you havent already gotten it get your apprentice card through the city office in Manhattan so you have proof of your time in the trades this will be necessary when you apply for your J-man test. Good luck to you, it sounds like you will make a fine plumber also most shops here are combo shop ielbg. HVA/C-R so you might want to take some schooling in HVA/C-R . I would recommend WTI or the school in Kiberal Ks.for your hvac training. As I have stated before I started with My uncle when I was 11 did a lot of drain cleaning and ditch digging before I ever did anything else. but 44 years later I am a owner operator of my own business and am happy with my decision to have a skilled trade to earn a living at.


----------



## plumber101us (Feb 25, 2013)

sorry for the typos. my arthritis is acting up....lol the hvac school is in Liberal and it is very important you get your apprentice card in manhattan to prove when you started learning the trades so you can prove your time in trades for your J-man test


----------



## plumber101us (Feb 25, 2013)

If I can help you or other students out over there let me know. My daughter was a student over there and was killed in an auto accident and they have a memorial for her on campus.


----------



## PlumbStax (Apr 19, 2013)

plumber101us said:


> as oyu are probably aware of the union is out of Topeka and Wichita here in Kansas. They both have good apprentice programs. I would recommend getting with a union shop to continue your education here in Kansas if you decide to go Non-union there are several good schools Like the one out of Beloit to help you get more training. If you havent already gotten it get your apprentice card through the city office in Manhattan so you have proof of your time in the trades this will be necessary when you apply for your J-man test. Good luck to you, it sounds like you will make a fine plumber also most shops here are combo shop ielbg. HVA/C-R so you might want to take some schooling in HVA/C-R . I would recommend WTI or the school in Kiberal Ks.for your hvac training. As I have stated before I started with My uncle when I was 11 did a lot of drain cleaning and ditch digging before I ever did anything else. but 44 years later I am a owner operator of my own business and am happy with my decision to have a skilled trade to earn a living at.


Wichita is where I will be located & joining the Union to go threw another apprenticeship program is something I just can't do seeing how my mom is struggling to pay bills & I already have a job offer doing service threw one of the smaller companies. Its residential service and I'll spend a lot of time being the *****, 13$ an hour is my wage most likely far as the card. After I serve a year working I will be signed off for my other year by my instructor. I've planned on taking HVAC (even before I decided on plumbing) and was told some companies will pay for it the class if they think the investment is worth it. So I'm gonna bust ass for a good 6 months and maybe that might come my way.


----------

