# I have a sub par journeyman



## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

I am a first year apprentice. My journeyman hasn't taught me anything so far. The supervisor is the one who has taken the time to explain some things to me. I come to find out they are planning on firing my journeyman. I was told I should ask to be placed with a new one. Is that proper if me? It sounds like I'm stabbing him I the back. Any help would be appreciated.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Its proper to post a intro! Go to intro section please.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Eddie77 said:


> I am a first year apprentice. My journeyman hasn't taught me anything so far. The supervisor is the one who has taken the time to explain some things to me. I come to find out they are planning on firing my journeyman. I was told I should ask to be placed with a new one. Is that proper if me? It sounds like I'm stabbing him I the back. Any help would be appreciated.


You havnt been taught to read the 1st line here..


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Starting to see where the problem lies. Are you a good listener when he gives you direction ?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Eddie77 said:


> I am a first year apprentice. My journeyman hasn't taught me anything so far. The supervisor is the one who has taken the time to explain some things to me. I come to find out they are planning on firing my journeyman. I was told I should ask to be placed with a new one. Is that proper if me? It sounds like I'm stabbing him I the back. Any help would be appreciated.


This might be a very elaborate hoax and you are the punch line. 

Think about it. Why would persons planning on terminating an employee share such critical information with his workmates? Especially an apprentice. It makes no business sense whatsoever.

You should tread very lightly. It may not be your journeyman on the chopping block.

Now where's that intro?:furious:


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

There is no such thing as sub- par journeymen only sorry $&&*^ apprentices.

Ask the owner of any plumbing company that has been fined for his journeyman to apprentice ratio on a job.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

No ration here. I've had 4 apprentices and 3 day laborers on a job site with me before


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> No ration here. I've had 4 apprentices and 3 day laborers on a job site with me before


 You beat them with tape or folding ruler??


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I make the head apprentice beat every one else. If they don't do rite. Then I beat him. And o yea I use a 24" steel ridgid pipe wrench to do my beatings. And I make them stay in the truck while I get my material from the supply house. 
When they try to get out I say. Get ur purse and stay In the dam truck. Ill let you know I need you to get out !!!


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

I would keep my mouth shut and just do what you are told to do. First year apprentice that voice there opinion usually end up laid off.


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## Lja1821 (Jul 27, 2013)

I would just keep my head down, eyes and ears open and learn from whoever i can more than likely your going to be working with more than one journeyman so why concern yourself with this one. Sounds like theres to much yapping and no production if this kind of thing is going around on the jobsite. We have a 3-1 ratio on our site but sometimes even us senior guys have to do whatever is necessary to get the job done, even if it means fetching needed material..


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

So, now that I've made an intro. I am a very specific listener & a very hard worker. My journeyman was not made an issue by me, rather by the supervisors in the field. I have been told by the master plumbers that I am doing everything that is expected of me to a T. I have a had a review by me superiors & was told I'm coming along very well. Side note: I have not become a part of this forum, introduced myself & began asking questions to hear about how people abuse their apprentices. I ask questions to be a better plumber everyday, as I hope others do as well. I am not some stupid kid.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Eddie77 said:


> So, now that I've made an intro. I am a very specific listener & a very hard worker. My journeyman was not made an issue by me, rather by the supervisors in the field. I have been told by the master plumbers that I am doing everything that is expected of me to a T. I have a had a review by me superiors & was told I'm coming along very well. Side note: I have not become a part of this forum, introduced myself & began asking questions to hear about how people abuse their apprentices. I ask questions to be a better plumber everyday, as I hope others do as well. I am not some stupid kid.


Go over to the introduction section and we'll go from there..


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Eddie77 said:


> So, now that I've made an intro. I am a very specific listener & a very hard worker. My journeyman was not made an issue by me, rather by the supervisors in the field. I have been told by the master plumbers that I am doing everything that is expected of me to a T. I have a had a review by me superiors & was told I'm coming along very well. Side note: I have not become a part of this forum, introduced myself & began asking questions to hear about how people abuse their apprentices. I ask questions to be a better plumber everyday, as I hope others do as well. I am not some stupid kid.


From your relatively few posts, it seems you have a real piss poor attitude. As a first year, your only job is to close your mouth and bust your arse. You don't know enough to know if your journeyman is worth anything, because you aren't worth anything.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Ease up..

Being a low man on the totem poll is one thing, but everyone have a task on a job site. Yes a greenhorn is green and knows nothing, doesn't mean they aren't worth anything.

That exact state of mind is the reason many apprentices drag up because their j man is a douchebag, this ain't the military.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

What is a supervisor doing talking to a first year apprentice? You would well advised to ignore everybody except your journeyman. You are being played for a fool by somebody .


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

*Now that we're acquainted*

I really didn't join this forum to hear about people abusing their apprentices. The fact is, I am looking for real advice. There were a few helpful replies & then a bunch of dribble. I'm not a young kid who doesn't know what hard work is. I was told these things by superiors who see my hard work & have reviewed me positively. 

Keep my head down, work hard & let the powers that be sort this thing out.... These were helpful things. Thank you. 

Hopefully you have also read the intro I posted.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Eddie77 said:


> I really didn't join this forum to hear about people abusing their apprentices. The fact is, I am looking for real advice. There were a few helpful replies & then a bunch of dribble. I'm not a young kid who doesn't know what hard work is. I was told these things by superiors who see my hard work & have reviewed me positively.
> 
> Keep my head down, work hard & let the powers that be sort this thing out.... These were helpful things. Thank you.
> 
> Hopefully you have also read the intro I posted.


What intro.. been sniffing for it and nanoo


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/shacker-commercial-guy-mn-27354/


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/shacker-commercial-guy-mn-27354/


That's a intro??? I asked what's a shacker and something wrong here.. he posted stating he's a 1st yr and only does new homes and then worked overtime doing commerical???


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Eddie77 said:


> I really didn't join this forum to hear about people abusing their apprentices. The fact is, I am looking for real advice. There were a few helpful replies & then a bunch of dribble. I'm not a young kid who doesn't know what hard work is. I was told these things by superiors who see my hard work & have reviewed me positively. Keep my head down, work hard & let the powers that be sort this thing out.... These were helpful things. Thank you. Hopefully you have also read the intro I posted.


 It is not even remotely reasonable to expect 100% of the responses to an apprentice's question to be what said apprentice wants to hear. You might want to try getting over that expectation.

Heck, even the Journeymen and Masters do not have that luxury around here. :laughing:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Eddie... don't inbox me... I'm not the beater here..


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## crown36 (May 21, 2013)

Eddie77 said:


> I am a first year apprentice. My journeyman hasn't taught me anything so far. The supervisor is the one who has taken the time to explain some things to me. I come to find out they are planning on firing my journeyman. I was told I should ask to be placed with a new one. Is that proper if me? It sounds like I'm stabbing him I the back. Any help would be appreciated.


 Stay out of things. Right now, you're a coffee fetcher. Perhaps your Jman is teaching; you're just not learning. Remember what I just said, otherwise your entry into the trade will be short lived.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Then he pms as well. You have a piss poor attitude, as I said before. Have some respect for your elders here. And by the way, elder doesn't have anything to do with age. Someone with a journeyman or masters card had achieved something you can only hope to get at this point. I understand you're frustrated as you're older and feel you've earned some respect. Let me tell you something, you haven't. Your previous life experience means exactly dick to a forum full of people who have already achieved what you've just started.

Most of us here, myself included, have endured some jerk journeyman kicking our ass. This isn't a trade for Sally paper pushers. If you can't take it, fill out an application with jiffy lube and get to changing some oil.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> Ease up.. Being a low man on the totem poll is one thing, but everyone have a task on a job site. Yes a greenhorn is green and knows nothing, doesn't mean they aren't worth anything. That exact state of mind is the reason many apprentices drag up because their j man is a douchebag, this ain't the military.


It is what it is. His plumbing skill is worth nothing. He is worth exactly what he puts in. Sounds like he's putting more work in with his mouth than with his hands. So worth nothing, as I said.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Boy howdy. I'd love to have an apprentice like him. What fun we would have together. Holding hands and frolicking around job site. Sharing a soda and crackers at break Singing our favorite songs to each other. O yippee what what fun it could be. But I'm lonely and sad. My apprentice tells me when I ask what do you think " I dont know boss I don't get paid to think I get paid to do!!! And any time in digging or sweeping he runs over and grabs the shovel and say. That's my job boss. Take a break or get some plumbing done He's so terrible. I can't stand him. Lol I wish he wined a bit more.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Boy howdy. I'd love to have an apprentice like him. What fun we would have together. Holding hands and frolicking around job site. Sharing a soda and crackers at break Singing our favorite songs to each other. O yippee what what fun it could be. But I'm lonely and sad. My apprentice tells me when I ask what do you think " I dont know boss I don't get paid to think I get paid to do!!! And any time in digging or sweeping he runs over and grabs the shovel and say. That's my job boss. Take a break or get some plumbing done He's so terrible. I can't stand him. Lol I wish he wined a bit more.


Yeah especially when your new baby is crying all night long and you get a big 3 hours sleep. I bet you'd be in the frolicking mood.


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## nickplumbing (Nov 8, 2013)

RW Plumbing said:


> Then he pms as well. You have a piss poor attitude, as I said before. Have some respect for your elders here. And by the way, elder doesn't have anything to do with age. Someone with a journeyman or masters card had achieved something you can only hope to get at this point. I understand you're frustrated as you're older and feel you've earned some respect. Let me tell you something, you haven't. Your previous life experience means exactly dick to a forum full of people who have already achieved what you've just started.
> 
> Most of us here, myself included, have endured some jerk journeyman kicking our ass. This isn't a trade for Sally paper pushers. If you can't take it, fill out an application with jiffy lube and get to changing some oil.


Awesome!!! Well put!


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Damn J I can't stop laughing now.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I remember one time I got in a code disagreement with the Forman I was working for. I was a 5th year at the time. He pulled out his masters card and asked:" do you have one of these?" "No" I replied. " then shut the F up". And I was ready to write my exam. Apprentices should be seen and not heard.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Boy howdy. I'd love to have an apprentice like him. What fun we would have together. Holding hands and frolicking around job site. Sharing a soda and crackers at break Singing our favorite songs to each other. O yippee what what fun it could be. But I'm lonely and sad. My apprentice tells me when I ask what do you think " I dont know boss I don't get paid to think I get paid to do!!! And any time in digging or sweeping he runs over and grabs the shovel and say. That's my job boss. Take a break or get some plumbing done He's so terrible. I can't stand him. Lol I wish he wined a bit more.


 I sent a first year looking for a Pinckney flange. It went on for a week before I told him that the only person I new that didn't have a problem finding one was dark wing duck which is where I had heard the term.lol


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Shut Up and Dig, Fetch Tools & Parts...


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Shut Up and Dig, Fetch Tools & Parts...



And don't even F-ing think of sitting down.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> And don't even F-ing think of sitting down.


And take you hands out of your pockets!!


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

The point is a first year apprentice has no knowledge of the trade so you cannot make a informed opinion about the journeyman. That's why I say somebody is pulling your leg. And no matter what your age a supervisor isn't going to talk T&P you about the journeyman. You are not that important. We all were there so just do your job and keep perspective of the big picture.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

wyrickmech said:


> The point is a first year apprentice has no knowledge of the trade so you cannot make a informed opinion about the journeyman. That's why I say somebody is pulling your leg. And no matter what your age a supervisor isn't going to talk T&P you about the journeyman. You are not that important. We all were there so just do your job and keep perspective of the big picture.


It is the big picture and a long ladder to it


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## Victor90 (Nov 8, 2013)

I had a problem when I first came out of school as a first year apprentice. My journeymen didn't teach me jack and he just made me hand him tools the entire time, I dug 3/5 days for 4 months. 
I learned a lot during my 6 months at school and I felt like my skill was deteriorating from lack of use so I changed company. Found an independent Plumber that was lazy and sat in his van all day but knew plumbing. He'd make a drawing, make me do it all and if I ever had any questions he'd give me an informative answer. I always got him to double check my work and asked more technical questions when things were done. You should work for a smaller company, large ones don't give a **** about you. I feel that Plumbers in reputable companies keep their information vague as they think you'll take their job.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Victor90 said:


> I had a problem when I first came out of school as a first year apprentice. My journeymen didn't teach me jack and he just made me hand him tools the entire time, I dug 3/5 days for 4 months. I learned a lot during my 6 months at school and I felt like my skill was deteriorating from lack of use so I changed company. Found an independent Plumber that was lazy and sat in his van all day but knew plumbing. He'd make a drawing, make me do it all and if I ever had any questions he'd give me an informative answer. I always got him to double check my work and asked more technical questions when things were done. You should work for a smaller company, large ones don't give a **** about you. I feel that Plumbers in reputable companies keep their information vague as they think you'll take their job.


I'm going to have to take the opposite stance here. Working for a big company I was forced to figure out everything for myself. They want production so you get real good at running pipe as you throw up a thousand feet a week. Then when you have that down, you get to start thinking. I say a few years doing big construction then a transition to a service shop is best. 

Regardless of that, a first year doesn't have an opinion that matters even when asked. A journeyman has demonstrated a basic competency that as a first year, you don't even understand the standard. 

Cry baby has been pming me, and he said I didn't realize you guys had such a high opinion if yourselves. You're damn right we do. In my state a master plumber can draw and design buildings. In order to call yourself a master, it takes 8 years thousands of school hours and thousands more of on the job training. On top of that two eight hour tests stand in your way. Our masters exam has hundreds of code questions along with a 4 story hospital plan where we have to size and design the entire thing. We have the equivalent of an engineering degree in plumbing, and the skill to actually make it happen. 

Hearing a first year talking like he knows anything is insulting at best. Stick in there and achieve as I have, and you'll have something to be proud of too.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Victor90 said:


> I had a problem when I first came out of school as a first year apprentice. My journeymen didn't teach me jack and he just made me hand him tools the entire time, I dug 3/5 days for 4 months. I learned a lot during my 6 months at school and I felt like my skill was deteriorating from lack of use so I changed company. Found an independent Plumber that was lazy and sat in his van all day but knew plumbing. He'd make a drawing, make me do it all and if I ever had any questions he'd give me an informative answer. I always got him to double check my work and asked more technical questions when things were done. You should work for a smaller company, large ones don't give a **** about you. I feel that Plumbers in reputable companies keep their information vague as they think you'll take their job.


Take their job? An apprentice is going to take my job? That's a new one.

As RW stated above, a master plumbers license is no easy feat. A journeyman license is no easy feat. We take pride in our achievements and no apprentice is going to tell me how to treat them.

The plumber you're working under is giving you drawings and telling you to do the work he's supposed to do? That isn't even remotely legal. 

I see lazy hack plumbing in your future.


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## Victor90 (Nov 8, 2013)

RW Plumbing said:


> I'm going to have to take the opposite stance here. Working for a big company I was forced to figure out everything for myself. They want production so you get real good at running pipe as you throw up a thousand feet a week. Then when you have that down, you get to start thinking. I say a few years doing big construction then a transition to a service shop is best.
> 
> Regardless of that, a first year doesn't have an opinion that matters even when asked. A journeyman has demonstrated a basic competency that as a first year, you don't even understand the standard.
> 
> ...


I'm a 3rd year now for future reference and I've worked with other companies now as I'd like to work with different journeymen and see the way they do things.

Lets say I am a first year apprentice and that I wouldn't know code yet until second year. I'm still efficient at doing fitting allowances, grooving, threading and soldering. I felt it would've been appropriate for the journeymen to get me to be more hands on and guide me through stuff to speed up the learning process. I'm not interested in watching him pull off a cleanout and snake something, throwing in a new fixture or replacing sewer lines for months on end. Lets be real, residential houses drainage isn't rocket science. I wanted hands on experience!

The onus is on me to learn but what happens when your Journeyman won't let you?

You all give too much credit for journeymen, just as there are losers in other jobs there will be hack plumbers. I'm a better plumber then some people that have been fully licensed and in the business for years. They don't care about continuous learning, they don't care about reading technical books, getting tickets and learning the most up to date methods to do things. All they care about is a steady paycheck so they can down that 6 pack every night.


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## Victor90 (Nov 8, 2013)

MTDUNN said:


> Take their job? An apprentice is going to take my job? That's a new one.
> 
> As RW stated above, a master plumbers license is no easy feat. A journeyman license is no easy feat. We take pride in our achievements and no apprentice is going to tell me how to treat them.
> 
> ...


Were you not once an apprentice?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Victor90 said:


> I'm a 3rd year now for future reference and I've worked with other companies now as I'd like to work with different journeymen and see the way they do things. Lets say I am a first year apprentice and that I wouldn't know code yet until second year. I'm still efficient at doing fitting allowances, grooving, threading and soldering. I felt it would've been appropriate for the journeymen to get me to be more hands on and guide me through stuff to speed up the learning process. I'm not interested in watching him pull off a cleanout and snake something, throwing in a new fixture or replacing sewer lines for months on end. Lets be real, residential houses drainage isn't rocket science. I wanted hands on experience! The onus is on me to learn but what happens when your Journeyman won't let you? You all give too much credit for journeymen, just as there are losers in other jobs there will be hack plumbers. I'm a better plumber then some people that have been fully licensed and in the business for years. They don't care about continuous learning, they don't care about reading technical books, getting tickets and learning the most up to date methods to do things. All they care about is a steady paycheck so they can down that 6 pack every night.


you have to learn it all change your attitude. We all had to learn the trade I actually learned more from a old journeyman just watching and listening to him talk to himself. You are a third year apprentice that means you don't know code you don't know enough to work by yourself. Keep that in perspective don't get the I know it all attitude


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## alberteh (Feb 26, 2012)

Do you mean Drivel?

Small details matter in this trade.



Eddie77 said:


> I really didn't join this forum to hear about people abusing their apprentices. The fact is, I am looking for real advice. There were a few helpful replies & then a _bunch of dribble._ I'm not a young kid who doesn't know what hard work is. I was told these things by superiors who see my hard work & have reviewed me positively.
> 
> Keep my head down, work hard & let the powers that be sort this thing out.... These were helpful things. Thank you.
> 
> Hopefully you have also read the intro I posted.


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## Victor90 (Nov 8, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> you have to learn it all change your attitude. We all had to learn the trade I actually learned more from a old journeyman just watching and listening to him talk to himself. You are a third year apprentice that means you don't know code you don't know enough to work by yourself. Keep that in perspective don't get the I know it all attitude


Where did you get the idea that I thought I knew it all? Can't you tell when your workmanship is better the someone elses? I'm learning, I ask questions, I read about Plumbing cause I think it's fun. If I were to give it a good description of how I treat it I'd say it's a job and a hobby for me. I'll never say I know it all, I'll never stop being a student. I take advice, compare it with mine and throw it out if I think it's garbage or incorporate it into my work if it has sound logic.

Like I said before, you're giving all journeyman more credit then they deserve. What if I'm a first year apprentice and I can't tell who the hacks are yet and I'm learning from one?

Best advice I can give to the OP is work with different Plumbers. You'll see the guys that care about their work and you want to stick with them. The guys that want to leave early are the ones you don't want to keep in contact with.

The best people to work for are the ones that are there with you and you're helping by roughing in a bathroom group or something while they do something else in the same place and they check up on you regularly. If you make a mistake and they shrug it off but fix it that's who you want to stay with. Mistakes are your best tools for learning, if your boss blows up about it then he's not the right guy to work for.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Victor90 said:


> Were you not once an apprentice?



You won't find pity from me.

I was one of the few that make it. Why? Because I saw the big picture and I knew it would be hard work. 

And I learned from hard work. Not from a lazy hack.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

wyrickmech said:


> you have to learn it all change your attitude. We all had to learn the trade I actually learned more from a old journeyman just watching and listening to him talk to himself. You are a third year apprentice that means you don't know code you don't know enough to work by yourself. Keep that in perspective don't get the I know it all attitude


I agree, 
It's nice to hear a third year with an aggressive attitude toward your chosen profession but I can guarantee you don't know as much as you think. Stay the coarse the good stuff is coming in the next few years. Stop wanting this part to be over so quickly and enjoy the trip. 
One day in the near future an owner will slap a set of prints across your chest, tell you here's your crew, here is your schedule that your already behind on, four trucks loaded with material will be there in the morning and by the way the project is a bit underfunded but he knows you get bring it in on time. 
That is when you'll be grateful for your apprenticeship. It not only teaches you to the basics of the trade it teaches you how to make decisions usually high dollar decisions. 
BTW. Bad plumbers, owners etc in this trade don't last long on either side of the fence. This trade is self purging.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

As a master I look down from my lofty heights upon the wretched below. Through the mists I occasionally glimpse the form of a journeyman well into the first decade of his career. I view him with indifference. He will either make the entire journey, stay where he is, or fall back into the black depths. From where I sit, I cannot even see the apprentices scrambling below, vying for attention. Open your eyes and ears and shut your mouth. You can learn a lot by paying attention.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

_"The wise old owl lived in an oak. The more he saw, the less he spoke. The less he spoke, the more he heard. Why can't we be like that wise old bird?"_


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Victor90 said:


> I'm a 3rd year now for future reference and I've worked with other companies now as I'd like to work with different journeymen and see the way they do things. Lets say I am a first year apprentice and that I wouldn't know code yet until second year. I'm still efficient at doing fitting allowances, grooving, threading and soldering. I felt it would've been appropriate for the journeymen to get me to be more hands on and guide me through stuff to speed up the learning process. I'm not interested in watching him pull off a cleanout and snake something, throwing in a new fixture or replacing sewer lines for months on end. Lets be real, residential houses drainage isn't rocket science. I wanted hands on experience! The onus is on me to learn but what happens when your Journeyman won't let you? You all give too much credit for journeymen, just as there are losers in other jobs there will be hack plumbers. I'm a better plumber then some people that have been fully licensed and in the business for years. They don't care about continuous learning, they don't care about reading technical books, getting tickets and learning the most up to date methods to do things. All they care about is a steady paycheck so they can down that 6 pack every night.


I have no problem letting an apprentice do actual work. That's how you'll learn. As long as you realize you can do the work on the slow times, and when the crap you're getting paid to do is done. If a hole needs to be dug, you're doing it. You might get to put some pipe in it if you bust your ass getting it dug. As long as you realize I can do it better and faster than you can, and when it's time to hustle stand back and hand me stuff and stay out of my way.


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## Victor90 (Nov 8, 2013)

RW Plumbing said:


> I have no problem letting an apprentice do actual work. That's how you'll learn. As long as you realize you can do the work on the slow times, and when the crap you're getting paid to do is done. If a hole needs to be dug, you're doing it. You might get to put some pipe in it if you bust your ass getting it dug. As long as you realize I can do it better and faster than you can, and when it's time to hustle stand back and hand me stuff and stay out of my way.


I'm fine with that, I would've wanted to work for you. Thing is there are some people that just abuse you, my former boss made me pick up his trash from home enough to fill up a van. Needing to know who isn't beneficial in my development is also important.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Victor90 said:


> I'm fine with that, I would've wanted to work for you. Thing is there are some people that just abuse you, my former boss made me pick up his trash from home enough to fill up a van. Needing to know who isn't beneficial in my development is also important.


I have made my apprentices

Mow my lawn
Put the dock in and out at my camp
Tear the deck off my rental property
And the list goes on and on.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

HSI said:


> I agree, It's nice to hear a third year with an aggressive attitude toward your chosen profession but I can guarantee you don't know as much as you think. Stay the coarse the good stuff is coming in the next few years. Stop wanting this part to be over so quickly and enjoy the trip. One day in the near future an owner will slap a set of prints across your chest, tell you here's your crew, here is your schedule that your already behind on, four trucks loaded with material will be there in the morning and by the way the project is a bit underfunded but he knows you get bring it in on time. That is when you'll be grateful for your apprenticeship. It not only teaches you to the basics of the trade it teaches you how to make decisions usually high dollar decisions. BTW. Bad plumbers, owners etc in this trade don't last long on either side of the fence. This trade is self purging.


There's an old saying, no one knows more than a 5th year apprentice or less than a 1st year journeyman. As an apprentice, you might feel some pressure from the guys above you but you don't know the half of it. Nor should you, it isn't your job to worry about yet. But when you get that card, you better know everything. It starts the day you get that card and that pay. I've seen it many times in the union. A guy goes through the apprenticeship, has a lousy attitude and passes his exam and gets his care.my the only problem is, he sucks and he isn't worth the big bump you get for journeymans. What happens to that guy? He gets sent down the road, and works 6-8 months out of the year bouncing from shop to shop. And that's if there is work. If not,he sits home while guys like me work and earn a living.

So instead of worrying about how good of a plumber your journeyman is, worry about yourself.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Victor90 said:


> I'm fine with that, I would've wanted to work for you. Thing is there are some people that just abuse you, my former boss made me pick up his trash from home enough to fill up a van. Needing to know who isn't beneficial in my development is also important.


If I need something done, you'll do it. Unless it's illegal. If I want you to run to the gas station to pick me up a tin because I'm out of chew, you'll be going. It isn't about your development to me, or any other boss. I like showing guys the ropes, when it fits in my schedule. Starting out, you will suck something fierce at putting pipe together it will take longer for me to show you, than it would to do it myself. So you only get to do it when we are ahead. As you get better, you get faster and more likely to do more plumbing.

Still if there's shiot work, you'll be doing it.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> If I need something done, you'll do it. Unless it's illegal. If I want you to run to the gas station to pick me up a tin because I'm out of chew, you'll be going. It isn't about your development to me, or any other boss. I like showing guys the ropes, when it fits in my schedule. Starting out, you will suck something fierce at putting pipe together it will take longer for me to show you, than it would to do it myself. So you only get to do it when we are ahead. As you get better, you get faster and more likely to do more plumbing.
> 
> Still if there's shiot work, you'll be doing it.


Did we have the same master plumber ?? U took the word out of my mouth 

At my job the owner doesn't allow plumbers to dig or jack hammer. No grunt work. We have a truck for the helpers. It's used for all that grunt crap. We have a leak or slab leak. We locate and leave site while the apprentice jack hammers digs ect ect. We then return repair and leave. Then they return and fill back In morning they fill cooler with ice load parts and clean trucks I give them a list. While I fill out paper work and drink coffee they load it then we leave. On const site they unload set all parts out neatly and seperated by size


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

As an apprentice all you better think about is listening to what you are told to do and getting it right without having your journeyman have to repeat himself too many times.... :yes:

The last apprentice that rode with me had a hard head, with an inability to follow simple instructions...

The first day he rode with me he didn't have a lunch with him and had me drive about 10 miles out of my way so he could buy his lunch...:furious:

I suggested to him that rather than showing up to meet me 1/2 an hour early and calling me to let me know he was there waiting and ready, that perhaps he should drive down the road a mile from where we meet and get himself a rather fabulous sub from a deli to carry for his lunch...

The next day he's again calling me 1/2 an hour early to tell me he is there and waiting, and I tell him eff off don't call me! I'll be out to meet you either on time or, when they send me our first job....

Sure enough at lunch time again he wants me to drive him someplace so he can buy his lunch...:furious:

I repeat myself, that rather than showing up to meet me 1/2 an hour early and calling me to let me know he was there waiting and ready, that perhaps he should drive down the road a mile from where we meet and get himself a rather fabulous sub from a deli to carry for his lunch...

The next day when he didn't have his lunch yet again I took him get his stinkin lunch and when he went inside to get it, I left him there... :bangin:

So he calls the boss complaining about being left there and the boss tells him not to worry about it, take the rest of the day off he had already been punched out when I had called...:laughing:

You'll be riding with *****? tomorrow he'll call you and let him know when and where to meet him, I'd pay closer attention to what he tells you to do...:laughing:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Did we have the same master plumber ?? U took the word out of my mouth
> 
> At my job the owner doesn't allow plumbers to dig or jack hammer. No grunt work. We have a truck for the helpers. It's used for all that grunt crap. We have a leak or slab leak. We locate and leave site while the apprentice jack hammers digs ect ect. We then return repair and leave. Then they return and fill back In morning they fill cooler with ice load parts and clean trucks I give them a list. While I fill out paper work and drink coffee they load it then we leave. On const site they unload set all parts out neatly and seperated by size


Yep, it's just more whining from the entitled generation that thinks the world owes them a living and everyone should give a flying crap what they think or how they feel. I say ride them hard. The weak ones will drop out and the strong ones will eventually be plumbers. I really wish I had the time to tell you all the stories I have about this mostly useless generation of apprentices who's only skill is stapling pex up. I can't even count how many of the useless babies I fired the last year I ran the business. I'm glad my brother deals with them now.

And the babies will read this and think we are just a bunch of cranky old bustards but guess what? We are because WE PAID OUR DUES!


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

I had a guy kept complaining that his toes were cold. After half day if this he asked me to drive him home. I said ok. I drove him to the bus stop across the street.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Sooooo as a j-man I should take my time, and sometimes money to teach someone who I'm not sure will be the 1 in 10 that will last. 

If all I do is tell you to get stuff that means you have not figured enough out to be ready to learn.

Maybe when you have the tool before I ask you will be ready, until then you are the guy who costs me money that I don't want with me.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Yep, it's just more whining from the entitled generation that thinks the world owes them a living and everyone should give a flying crap what they think or how they feel. I say ride them hard. The weak ones will drop out and the strong ones will eventually be plumbers. I really wish I had the time to tell you all the stories I have about this mostly useless generation of apprentices who's only skill is stapling pex up. I can't even count how many of the useless babies I fired the last year I ran the business. I'm glad my brother deals with them now. And the babies will read this and think we are just a bunch of cranky old bustards but guess what? We are because WE PAID OUR DUES!


I'm 29. It isn't about age, it's about having the balls to get it done. I'm all about making money. I don't care if that's stapling pex up, or running copper, I'm all about it. My son would be the first man on my family line to graduate college, but not the first millionaire. I'm in this for the money.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Ur just a pup. Wait till ur 35 and old like me. Respect ur elder pup. Lol.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Quit your job and go join the marines. Bet you will never ***** about anything again... Ever.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Ur just a pup. Wait till ur 35 and old like me. Respect ur elder pup. Lol.


I'm a lot older than you. I'm still waiting for my respect. And I always have good things to say about your work. 

Heck come to think about it, maybe you hate everyone.

Stop Bullying us!!!


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

MTDUNN said:


> I'm a lot older than you. I'm still waiting for my respect. And I always have good things to say about your work.
> 
> Heck come to think about it, maybe you hate everyone.
> 
> Stop Bullying us!!!


His bullying keeping us young


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## ALZ (Jan 21, 2010)

:laughing::no: no :whistling2r you be:furious:

I just registered as a journeyman plumber in NYC! so happy. Now I have to wait 3 years for my MASTER! I want to congratulate and honor all the MASTER PLUMBERS outhere. Everyone should be so proud. :thumbup:
Lots of people don't understand the great significance and true accomplishment that is. PROTECT THE HEALTH OF THE NATION! I went to high school plumbing but being young stupid and a apprentice I went to do other things. later on in life I went back to plumbing college cause I always liked plumbing. Just wish I would of continued to never stop. I would of been a Master plumber by now. I wasted a lot of time. But im happy it wasn't too late to get back now I will never stop. But again big shut outs to all Master Plumbers very hard to become one. And also to the journeymans like me.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Ur just a pup. Wait till ur 35 and old like me. Respect ur elder pup. Lol.



What's your masters number again...?


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

I hope Eddie77 is still reading and learning. Lots of good stuff here


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

MTDUNN said:


> I'm a lot older than you. I'm still waiting for my respect. And I always have good things to say about your work.
> 
> Heck come to think about it, maybe you hate everyone.
> 
> Stop Bullying us!!!


It was ment for rw


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> What's your masters number again...?


Br549


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## CoachSmith13 (Nov 9, 2013)

brother I have been in your position before. you are there to learn as much as you can and trust me the learning never stops. You need to be with someone who will teach you how to do everything correctly and not the cheating or half-ass way. then as you progress you will find your way and figure out how to do things your way. your not stabbing anyone in the back when it comes to progressing your career. there are crappy journeymen out there the ones who give us plumbers a bad name. my journeyman who taught me said it perfectly "Its doesn't matter how long you have been doing it. It doesn't mean your any good'. good luck and learn the correct way.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey Smith.. trust me... you'll get backstabbed here if you don't post a proper introduction.


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## saskplumber (Oct 11, 2013)

Eddie77 said:


> So, now that I've made an intro. I am a very specific listener & a very hard worker. My journeyman was not made an issue by me, rather by the supervisors in the field. I have been told by the master plumbers that I am doing everything that is expected of me to a T. I have a had a review by me superiors & was told I'm coming along very well. Side note: I have not become a part of this forum, introduced myself & began asking questions to hear about how people abuse their apprentices. I ask questions to be a better plumber everyday, as I hope others do as well. I am not some stupid kid.


Hey Eddie,my opinion don't mean squat but I'll give it anyway.If everything is going well like being told "you are doing everything that is expected of you"&that in your review,you were "coming along very well",you shouldn't worry about the little things....J-man are going to ride ya,it's a fact!It's going to happen in this trade or others,go ahead and venture out to something else and you'll find the same outcome.Time stops for noone and soon you'll be past this and returning the favor to your apprentice.....How are you going to treat them?Like your first love....I don't think so.:laughing:Could be worse,one of the guys in my shop went to school for his first year and there was a guy in class with him that all he did for first year was deliver bath tubs.......eeeek


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I have made my apprentices Mow my lawn Put the dock in and out at my camp Tear the deck off my rental property And the list goes on and on.


It seems that that's cheating the apprentice out of hours they should be digging, organizing trucks or being taught something that has to do with the trade we have chosen.


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

HSI said:


> I hope Eddie77 is still reading and learning. Lots of good stuff here


Happy to see some encouraging words. Discouraged at others.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Eddie77 said:


> Happy to see some encouraging words. Discouraged at others.


just remember you start at the bottom.


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## Eddie77 (Nov 6, 2013)

wyrickmech said:


> just remember you start at the bottom.


I never forgot that even when I was at the top of my game in my last career. I treated my. Lowest guys the same as my top guys. I never put up with whining & back talk though. I didn't accept sorry, sorry walked the bread line. I invited a million questions a day with happiness to teach. I made sure the guys who bent over backwards for me received the same courtesy. 

I am not worried about being on the bottom, I will work my ass off to elevate myself.


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