# Why do people say there's a shortage of plumbers?



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Why do the people say there's a shortage of plumbers?

I hear people say this all the time, there's a shortage of plumber in our area. I'd really like to know who really posts those lies and what is the agenda behind that?

Is it because some company posted an ad in the newspaper looking for 3 employees? They're usually looking for employees because the others either quit, never show up or they aren't cutting enough corners in that champion company. Do people assume there aren't enough plumbers because of an ad?

Seriously that's a load of bull there isn't a lack of plumbers, in 20 years I've worked an average of 4-5 months a year because there wasn't enough work for everyone. The last 4 years before I opened up I worked a total of 3-4 months in total. Many guys had to travel outside the province to work or did other jobs like snow plow driving. Doing garbage night to recycle metal. Some even quit the trade entirely.

Seriously WHY???


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> Why do the people say there's a shortage of plumbers?
> 
> I hear people say this all the time, there's a shortage of plumber in our area. I'd really like to know who really posts those lies and what is the agenda behind that?
> 
> ...



mostly in the unions doing commercial or industrial work, not working on home owner stuff...


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

That is not how it is in the world of non union shops. You clearly worked in big union jobs.

People probably say there is a lack of plumbers because there is less and less skilled plumbers and more and more helpers pretending to be plumbers. In the 3.5 years I have been with my current company I have seen 3 promising apprentices where of one is now a j man some where else and one quit plumbing because he got 2 dollars more doing somewhere else and one is currently working for us but refuses to take his j man test to save on license renewal fee and is only here until he can land a job as a firefighter.
Then there were maybe 4 apprentices who either quit or got fired because they could not handle the real world or were simply no good at plumbing at all. I my short time plumbing I have seen too many people come and go who were no good and only a couple good enough to be good but not great and none of them are or will be around plumbing much more. One of the companies in town have 3 plumbers that will retire in the next 2 years and I honestly don't see 3 new apprentices coming in to plumbing in that time who has the potential to replace them.

I think they make the retiring baby boomers lack if skilled plumbers sound worse than it is and I have heard the same thing for the last 15 years yet it is not all that bad. I think we might just not notice it as much because a lot of the employers are accepting and lowering the bar for who they will hire.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> mostly in the unions doing commercial or industrial work, not working on home owner stuff...


I'm not sure where you are going with this. I was in the Union doing commercial, institutional, highrises and industrial and I would jump on any related job including gas in new houses, I would travel anywhere with a suit case so much so I got all the certificates to work on gas, oil, pipe fitter, plumber and in the other province too. Even then there wasn't enough work. 

Even now I get by doing service but more jobs would be welcome. In any field there isn't a shortage of guys.


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

I guess it depends on the area or what your definition of "plumber" is. 

Around here there is a dearth of talent. I've worked for some large companies as well as smaller companies. They all had trouble hiring talented plumbers. And they were offering decent wages so it wasn't like they were trying to low-ball. 

Pretty much all those companies ended up hiring unskilled people and training them for a month or so, pretty much just long enough to learn how to close out a ticket. A lot of those guys didn't last long for various reasons.

You can bet they were still charging "plumber" rates to the customers when they sent guys to train on their houses.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I'm not sure where you are going with this. I was in the Union doing commercial, institutional, highrises and industrial and I would jump on any related job including gas in new houses, I would travel anywhere with a suit case so much so I got all the certificates to work on gas, oil, pipe fitter, plumber and in the other province too. Even then there wasn't enough work.
> 
> Even now I get by doing service but more jobs would be welcome. In any field there isn't a shortage of guys.


who is crying about lack of plumbers? canada or the USA, the USA is short of any qualified person in a trade that does hands on work well...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> who is crying about lack of plumbers? canada or the USA, the USA is short of any qualified person in a trade that does hands on work well...


I was referring to people who I talk to in general in my city. For 20 years I've been hearing that.

I just remembered on the news the contractors in the province needed more certified workers. Ok so I found an article from this summer and it said employers needed carpenters(new residential houses I believe), drywallers, painters, tilers, labors and plumbers.

Once again I say BS for plumbers, just before I decided to open my business, I went to several service shops, none were hiring but one did, during the interview I felt like they were looking more for a plumber who didn't know the code book, who would cut corners and after talking with them I realized they weren't knowledgeable in the code and didn't know about specialized plumbing tools either.

The next interview for a gas installer they never saw someone with so many certificates and I didn't even get a call back.

Then I applied to the city, same thing I had 3 tickets they required and I didn't get a call. No one in the province has all 3 than me that I know of!!


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I was referring to people who I talk to in general in my city. For 20 years I've been hearing that.
> 
> I just remembered on the news the contractors in the province needed more certified workers. Ok so I found an article from this summer and it said employers needed carpenters(new residential houses I believe), drywallers, painters, tilers, labors and plumbers.
> 
> ...





any city job you probably need a hook to get hired, you say the hacks are busy doing plumbing in many of your posts, just because your not busy doesnt mean there isnt a ton of work out there needing to be done..
you have to figure out why you arent being called for the plumbing work?
I have turned down plenty of work in the last few years as im as busy as I want to be, but I also have been in business over 30 years and built up a customer base and I get many calls from people that got my name from the list of licensed plumbers with the municipality ..


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Tango said:


> Why do the people say there's a shortage of plumbers?
> 
> *It is the plumbing trades fault that there are not enough plumbers. Those that own the shops, in some cases don't call their employees there true title. They call them techs. I hear this term day in and day out. A tech is a persons who repairs appliances, office machines -- even an auto mechanic could have a tech title. How many shops call a new employee a helper? Give your people the title they deserve "Apprentice Plumber, Journeyman Plumber,
> Master Plumber." If you are in a heavy code area, then use the word REGISTERED in front of all three. You have a distinction in this trade might as well capitalize on it. Use these words on truck lettering, business cards, ID badges. There is a difference between a helper and a Registered Apprentice Plumber, or for a Journeyman Plumber vs a Tech. Don't get me started on Clients and Customers.*


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Tango said:
> 
> 
> > Why do the people say there's a shortage of plumbers?
> ...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> any city job you probably need a hook to get hired, you say the hacks are busy doing plumbing in many of your posts, just because your not busy doesnt mean there isnt a ton of work out there needing to be done..
> *you have to figure out why you arent being called for the plumbing work?*
> I have turned down plenty of work in the last few years as im as busy as I want to be, but I also have been in business over 30 years and built up a customer base and I get many calls from people that got my name from the list of licensed plumbers with the municipality ..



I think because there's too much competition. It's literally an anthill of companies. I also lose a lot of work for renos and medium jobs because my prices are higher than those who charge really cheap(They charge way less than what an employee costs to run) they usually cut corners and gain a bad rap too. I also lose out because I charge for estimates but I know I'm wasting my energy, gas,time on the majority of them.

Then I lose on commercial work and other areas, since it's commercial I would have to pay 2 other entities monthly and yearly, and do monthly reports and It's way too much hassle and paperwork.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Tango said:
> 
> 
> > Why do the people say there's a shortage of plumbers?
> ...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> PLUMBER_BILL said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have to get you started on clients and customers. I'll lead the way by asking this, isn't a client something a prostitute has?
> ...


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

The Dane said:


> PLUMBER_BILL said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have to get you started on clients and customers. I'll lead the way by asking this, isn't a client something a prostitute has?
> ...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I was at Fergusons today and saw a clown pull up in a plumbing van with basically a mo-hawk kind of hair cut with a pony tail down his back.... He was sporting all kinds of pretty tats too......

I looked at this clown and thought to myself , who in gods name would let him into their home......?? That is the quality of what is out there :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

I have attempted to encourage guys to get their journeymans cards but it is just wasted time on my part......



At least in this country their is a serious shortage of plumbers, I can guarantee it because we are constantly busy...... 

When everyone born before 1960 finally all retires their is probably going to be big trouble...


You live in Canada , so that is half your problem .


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> I was at Fergusons today and saw a clown pull up in a plumbing van with basically a mo-hawk kind of hair cut with a pony tail down his back.... He was sporting all kinds of pretty tats too......
> 
> I looked at this clown and thought to myself , who in gods name would let him into their home......?? That is the quality of what is out there :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> ...


They've been saying that here too when the baby boomers retire... They've been saying that for 25 years and they're still working! They'll retire in another 25!! I think most baby boomers already left, I don't see too many old timers on construction sites and it still hasn't changed a damn thing about a shortage of plumbers. Except now there isn't enough money for generation X like me to retire. 

Talking about retirement, I received my retirement papers this week from the construction. I can start taking smaller payments in 8 years or so or wait something like 18 years and get the full plan. The smaller and right away beats the full plan because the average age of death for plumbers is 67 in my area.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

This whole, when baby boomers retire there will be lots of unfilled jobs is bull [email protected]&$. Technically yes but see what happens is that employers are starting to hire warm bodies (we had an apprentice that clearly would never pass the j man test and the boss kept him for a full year even though we all knew he was no good and I personally advocated for him getting fired). These warm bodies are slow, unprofessional and require too much babysitting. I don't one bit mind babysitting a new guy as long as he is interested in making plumbing a career and shows potential to become a good plumber.

Now as the market looses more of the skilled plumbers and fill some of the void with warm bodies that does not have the potential to one day become skilled and replace the skilled person who retired. The plumbing market then starts to have longer wait times for getting a plumber out and this also raises prices. All this results in many jobs going to the general contractor or a hack instead of to plumbers. Now if jobs go more to non plumbers you guys might not see that there is a lack of plumbers to do the jobs because you are blind to all those extra jobs that you simply never see.

Oh and if there truly was no lack of plumbers and not enough jobs out there. Would we be ok with general contractors doing small jobs themselves? Like hook up that vanity they just replaced or install a new toilet or what ever other small stuff. I would never dream of reporting one of our contractors when they do something simple like that. I would only do that if it was something bigger or more important. Now if we were hurting for jobs and non plumbers were taking our jobs I might feel different.
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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

@Master Mark

Another reason I don't get overloaded with calls, I can't say for certain but the majority of small time GCs do the plumbing themselves instead of subbing it out. Most of them are liars and cheats. Just yesterday when I fixed the diy sink the woman was in the process of getting estimates to reno the bathroom and she never thought of asking me!

Seriously what the F?? She said one of the guys who showed up told her he had 28 years experience so I told her why would she hire him? He's not a plumber I am! I gave her an estimate but I'm pretty sure one of them is going to get the job anyway. They all want to save money like ostriches's head in the sand.

Then this morning again, a repeat customer is about to hire a contractor to reno the basement and once again I told her to call the ministry and watch out because he was going to do electrical and other things he isn't licensed for. That poor woman has been screwed over by the last 3 contractors and she's about to be screwed over again.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The US Bureau of Labor and Statistics {I think that is the gov't. agency's name} predicts a shortage of plumbers as well as other tradesmen in the near future. This is a fact. 

The reasons being as I see it:

Young people today do not want to sweat, dig ditches or put in the {5} or so years that it takes to learn a trade. They don't want to wait for anything, they want it now.


For years kids were spoon-fed the lie that college is an absolutely necessary thing. You MUST go to college or risk having a dead-end, low-paying job for life. When I was in school, I took wood-working class and metals class. We actually fabricated items in shop class. Do they even offer shop class to the children today? Maybe, I don't know.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers-pipefitters-and-steamfitters.htm#tab-6


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> The US Bureau of Labor and Statistics {I think that is the gov't. agency's name} predicts a shortage of plumbers as well as other tradesmen in the near future. This is a fact.
> 
> The reasons being as I see it:
> 
> ...





Ive said it many time before, it was a calculated move by the federal dept of education to remove most if not all shop classes from schools and to put all school children on a path to helplessness as an excuse to have more immigrants enter the country to make up for the lack of young people not trained for hands on labor.....and it has worked out well for that plan..we now have a generation of do nothing millenials that cant take care of themselves and forget about them learning a hands on trade to help anyone else...
now school systems are taking it upon themselves to put shop classes back in and get children back in the swing for manual labor....since I believe Trump cut down the federal education dept not to meddle in local school districts.....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tango said:


> @Master Mark
> 
> Another reason I don't get overloaded with calls, I can't say for certain but the majority of small time GCs do the plumbing themselves instead of subbing it out. Most of them are liars and cheats. Just yesterday when I fixed the diy sink the woman was in the process of getting estimates to reno the bathroom and she never thought of asking me!
> 
> ...


When ever this happens, you ought to ask while conversing with them if the jackleg bidding the job is actually insured in case they burn your house down or flood the place???

......or point on your work order where it says you are insured..

Our info is on our trucks .... licensed and insured...... you ought to have it on your trucks too.....

they always lose their asses doing bathroom remodels it never fails..... 

but also that is why they are so cheap....


I suggest that you stick with the service and come in afterward and mop up the mess they make....


In our city right now they are going around red-tagging flipped homes on the west side of town..... no permits were taken out for a new bathroom in the home and when an inspector sees new work being done they just red-tag the whole place and force the existing homeowner to bring it all up to code ....... after the fact...... 

people who bought these places are seriously pissed off..





.....

..


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

here you go..have a read...
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/newt-gingrich-personal-conversation-mike-rowe


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> When ever this happens, you ought to ask while conversing with them if the jackleg bidding the job is actually insured in case they burn your house down or flood the place???
> 
> ......or point on your work order where it says you are insured..
> 
> ...



Like you say I stick to service, I don't get reno's or even a small job where I would spend a full day because they only want a free estimate and look at the lowest price tag.

Those who look only at the price tag really don't care about insurance or licences. I've heard a dozen times "As long as it doesn't leak", It's the perfect world for them.

I would get a ton of work if we had real plumbing inspectors when people buy a house but they don't even call a plumber to inspect. Not once in 2 years have I been asked to inspect a potential house. The not so knowledgeable home inspectors don't see the evident diy botchery. I make my money from fubar jobs.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Try some of my requirements and see if there is a shortage. Pass a background check (whoops, there goes 90% of the potential), 10 yrs+ experience, (I prefer 20), clean mvr, clean, professional appearance. That weeds them out quickly.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

dhal22 said:


> Try some of my requirements and see if there is a shortage. Pass a background check (whoops, there goes 90% of the potential), 10 yrs+ experience, (I prefer 20), clean mvr, clean, professional appearance. That weeds them out quickly.





speak and understand ENGLISH....


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> Young people today do not want to sweat, dig ditches or put in the {5} or so years that it takes to learn a trade. They don't want to wait for anything, they want it now.
> 
> 
> For years kids were spoon-fed the lie that college is an absolutely necessary thing. You MUST go to college or risk having a dead-end, low-paying job for life.





First, correct, who the heck wants to dig ditches or sweat? I don't and I do it for living and did it for fun as a child.


Second, no they weren't spoon fed a lie. They were told yeah, you could make 90k$ as a plumber dealing with all that mess or you could go to college and make 120k$ with a degree in paper pushing and work in a nice clean office with climate control.


Quite frankly I think it is us who are the crazy ones. How much wear and tear do you suffer from plumbing? Work in an office and your only worry is not enough exercise. But if you work in an office you still have the energy to do the fun stuff when you get out of work which can also be exercise.


I don't know about you, but I am not a plumber because of the money. I do it because I enjoy the problem solving in spite of the pain and can't stand writing or sitting in an office.








.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

For the past several years in our CEU classes we are seeing more and more gray hair. No younger individuals are wanting to do the hard labor as mentioned and seek the easy out for money and jobs.

The hard physical work ethic and loyalty has gone out the window. The only real turn around I see is when the industry starts failing and the pay goes up to a point that younger individuals see it as a profitable means of work, we may see an interest again in our trade. this runs true across many of the trades. Ours seems worse than others just because of the type of work.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> First, correct, who the heck wants to dig ditches or sweat? I don't and I do it for living and did it for fun as a child.
> 
> 
> Second, no they weren't spoon fed a lie. They were told yeah, you could make 90k$ as a plumber dealing with all that mess or you could go to college and make 120k$ with a degree in paper pushing and work in a nice clean office with climate control.
> ...





your sorta wrong..the youth was spoon fed a lie of 120k office jobs..there are only a few, most college educated people are not working, they went to college for some stupid idiotic major that no jobs exist to be hired, so they are living in mommy and daddys basement collecting an allowance doing nothing...


office people are dying left and right from stress and sitting on their fat a$$es all day stuffing food down their throat


I do plumbing because I enjoy it and make a $hit load of money doing it..I get my exercise ( not all) from keeping active doing plumbing , its social when you chat with customers or other trades on larger jobs..


yes the body takes a beating, but so far everything has been fixable with surgery and now I take it a little bit easier... the office people with heart attacks, ulcers, stress, and the list goes on is not so fixable unless you quit or get a different type of job...


if your not making good money in plumbing then you need to revisit your business plan, but you also are not going to make big money till you establish yourself and pay your dues of long days, weeks, nights..nothing good comes easy..if you think that , then you found your problem...


in your own business the harder you work the more reward..if you work for someone..the harder you work just gets you more work and no more reward...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Twice today I was told plumbers are hard to come by...

The first woman who said that, I asked her what was the meaning behind it and she had no answer. Why say that then????

The second elderly woman was looking for a service plumber. She called a company she knew but they mostly do new houses so yeah they weren't available. She called another plumber in a far away village and he too was too busy. It's unknown if he's a legit company I highly doubt it.

So she went on the net and found me on the top of the page and visited the website. I got the job because my site stated I serviced her town and I could go the same day.


So again there's no shortage of plumbers, she called companies who don't do service, that's all.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> Twice today I was told plumbers are hard to come by...
> 
> The first woman who said that, I asked her what was the meaning behind it and she had no answer. Why say that then????
> 
> ...



the shortage is more for the employer looking for qualified people to be plumbers, ask around the union companies or larger plumbing companies looking for good employees and you will find your answer..
the customers will get " someone" the company sends todo work..whether they know squat is a different story and im sure the supervisors or owners will BS the customer of why their idiot employee couldnt fix the problem and they will send the super best mechanic plumber for their one in a lifetime plumbing problem..
many companies cant get good employees , so anyone with a pulse they will hire and send out and hold their breath they may be able to fix or hack the problem to collect a check..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> the shortage is more for the employer looking for qualified people to be plumbers, ask around the union companies or larger plumbing companies looking for good employees and you will find your answer..


I would disagree with this quote. In our area anyway, a good Union plumber is not what they were looking for. They were looking for the champion who could pipe so fast and cut as many corners he could so the money was rolling in by the bucket load. To hell with the code.

In my area a good union plumber who would do stuff to code and have zero leaks would be laid off first. I was one of them and many times too. I was fast but not as fast as their brown noses who would skip hangers, no vents, back slopped etc.

To them a good plumber would be a guy working overtime and not getting paid for it, supplying his own electric tools, step ladders etc. This is what they are searching for.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I would disagree with this quote. In our area anyway, a good Union plumber is not what they were looking for. They were looking for the champion who could pipe so fast and cut as many corners he could so the money was rolling in by the bucket load. To hell with the code.
> 
> In my area a good union plumber who would do stuff to code and have zero leaks would be laid off first. I was one of them and many times too. I was fast but not as fast as their brown noses who would skip hangers, no vents, back slopped etc.
> 
> To them a good plumber would be a guy working overtime and not getting paid for it, supplying his own electric tools, step ladders etc. This is what they are searching for.



hack companies hire hack workers..quality companies hire good help..im sure there are plenty of hack companies here, but the companies looking for good employees have a hard time finding them..


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## CaptainBob (Jan 3, 2011)

In my opinion, the shortage seems to be the cheap hack plumber that is willing to work for next to nothing.


I haven't been real busy lately, but I have heard about a few who are, for example, got a call last week from a customer who was referred to me by another plumber. She said he was too busy and couldn't be out there for a couple weeks. She needed the stuff fixed sooner than that, but after hearing what my prices were - his were about 1/3 of mine - she must have decided she could wait.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

CaptainBob said:


> In my opinion, the shortage seems to be the cheap hack plumber that is willing to work for next to nothing.
> 
> 
> I haven't been real busy lately, but I have heard about a few who are, for example, got a call last week from a customer who was referred to me by another plumber. She said he was too busy and couldn't be out there for a couple weeks. She needed the stuff fixed sooner than that, but after hearing what my prices were - his were about 1/3 of mine - she must have decided she could wait.


This is when I say to myself whatever and 30 minutes later I get a call out for someone else who want's it now and since it's now dinner time he doesn't mind paying the evening rate. Ha! :biggrin:


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## CaptainBob (Jan 3, 2011)

Great when that happens, and that's the way it should be, you don't go work for the customer looking for the low rate so you can work for a customer willing to pay the right rate.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

There is a shortage of good qualified plumbers in Texas. You can throw a rock and hit a ****ty plumber but it takes time to find well qualified people who aren't crazy or on drugs.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

justme said:


> There is a shortage of good qualified plumbers in Texas. You can throw a rock and hit a ****ty plumber but it takes time to find well qualified people who aren't crazy or on drugs.





We have it easy here, the ****ty ones just work for or have worked for roto rooter so those who want a good plumber just ask where they have worked before.








.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

As a kid and someone asks “what do you want to be when you grow up”? Nobody is saying they want to be a plumber. I didn’t seek it out, plumbing found me. Once you start doing it you realize how fun of a career it is and how much much money you can make doing it. We just have to do a better job recruiting and telling the younger generation that the college arts degree isn’t going to get you a good paying job or you’re going to be working in a boring cubicle your whole life.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Friday night the husband of a new customer told he it was hard to find a plumber. On this one I understood what he meant, he didn't want to say it's hard to find a *GOOD* plumber.

She had called 2 or 3 places before me and she didn't like their attitude. The second call she made was the fake plumbing company/plumber. The fucturd is at it again. Man I want his plumbing website down. I just can't wait for his trial in 2 weeks!

Anyway she said to me I don't trust contractors on the phone so I told her did you check my reviews? She replied no, Go check them out.

When I got there she said those reviews were from all my friends. Sarcastically I said yes I has 88 close friends. It probably made her realize her comment was absurd.

Then the husband offered me a beer. Ha! No thanks. I spent another 20 minutes chatting after my 8 minute repair. They seemed happy!


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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> We have it easy here, the ****ty ones just work for or have worked for roto rooter so those who want a good plumber just ask where they have worked before.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have known excellent plumbers who worked for rotorooter, and some schitty plumbers who worked for so-called respectable companies. Some guys will take any job they can get when starting out, because they are honorable and have a good work ethic, so will take whatever they can get to get their foot in the door. Do we put them down because that happened to be a bad company who was the only one who would hire them without experience? I worked for one of the worst when I started out because that is all I could get. Anyone who doesn't hire me now because of it, loses out on a good employee. Smart hiring mangers have said to me that they see that I got out of there as soon as I could. They see it as me being smart, not me being a hack just because of association.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Theres a couple things that bugg me, there are jman out there who dont want to teach the new guys " i dont get paid to be a teacher" these grumpy up on their high horse a**holes.. and theirs employers who dont want to pay 2 guys to do 1 man work. 
Well heres the issue with that. Paying the second guy at the one man job is an investment in his future skills to grow into a well rounded skilled plumber so suck it up employers. Not to mention its pretty scummy to send an 18 year old apprentice to service calls an charge 100/hour.
And as far as the guys who dont want to teach...well where did you learn all your skills an knowledge? Some guys just dont want to pay it forward and its kinda sad because theirs alot of meaning an purpose with teaching at work.

So the selfish guys who dont want to teach an the greedy employers who want to save their 14 bucks an hour contribute too a dying breed of skilled tradesman.
And yes theres guys who cant cut it or quite and move on but theres issues within our little fellowship with sculpting the next generation. 

Myself on the other hand got lucky. I had a great jman who taught me lots didnt make me carry his bag and buy his coffee. Made me want to stick around and keep learning.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> Do we put them down because that happened to be a bad company who was the only one who would hire them without experience?



I under stand that not all roto franchises are the same and that my inference was regional, you must understand the same. And while we know the stereotype we hire them anyway and give them a shot.





I have a whole post on roto in my area and what I stated is darn near 100%. They aren't guys without experience. They are usually emotionally unstable divorcées, alcoholics, or just plain messed up in the head. These are guys who have their license, sometimes multiple, and for one reason or another have hit rock bottom and just can't hold down a 9-5 anymore. The last 3 we had who were last employed at roto had owned and operated their own multi employee businesses for many years but lost it all. Some it's tragedy and some it's their own darn fault, regardless the end result is the same.




Guy #1 Had his own company for like 10 years, no steady employees, divorced due to drinking issue, got (mostly)sober after several years at roto. Recently took in his cancer patient mother and thus needs a better paying/steadier job than roto. Well, his issues with his mother cause him to start drinking again. We had to let him go because of all the leaks we would get called back for on a variety of different things. The clincher wasn't actually a leak but the fact he ran to the hardware store no less than 5 different times looking for tubular parts to fix the drain under one customers sink. We get emails from that particular store when purchases are made. He didn't answer his phone that whole time.


Guy #2 Stay at home dad of twin girls for the last 14 years since their birth. Owned his own company for 10+ years, multiple employees until he quit to raise the girls. They started high school so he decided to go back to work. Was with roto for a while then got placed with us by a temp agency. He got fired in less than a week. This guy was a joke, slow as all heck, never shut up, had the short term memory of a gold fish.


Guy #3 This guy we actually really liked. He had his own company for almost 20 years. a couple steady helpers in that time. Had enough tools to outfit two full plumbing/heating trucks. The wife and he turned to drugs(amphetamines?) during the recession. Then they both got clean by the time he was at roto for a couple years. He decides he can swing a better job and is driving an hour to us for work. Wife starts using again and screwing some biker gang members while he's working who she lets take all his tools and then runs off with them after serving him papers. And by run off I mean tells the judge a sob story so he has to move out so she can stay but she is never at their apartment anyway just at the criminals drug den shooting up. He had to resign because of all the days he had to go to court. We told him if things got stable to come back. That was 18ish months ago.




These are the last three guys we have gotten who were recently employed at roto. Roto has the worst reputation around here and for good reason.








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## CaptainBob (Jan 3, 2011)

CaptainBob said:


> In my opinion, the shortage seems to be the cheap hack plumber that is willing to work for next to nothing.



After thinking about this, maybe I should add, the shortage seems to be a good plumber that is willing to work for next to nothing.


Today again lost a job to another plumber that had rates about half of mine. I could have done the job this week, but he is scheduled a couple weeks out. Customer is willing to wait for the lower price.


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## david.gamble (Aug 21, 2020)

i dont know many people my age getting into trades. in highschool i mentioned it and they told me it was for felons and i should go to college. now all the people who did want us to pay for their student loans, whose laughing now


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

goeswiththeflow said:


> .... Do we put them down because that happened to be a bad company who was the only one who would hire them without experience? .......








skoronesa said:


> ...........
> These are the last three guys we have gotten who were recently employed at roto. Roto has the worst reputation around here and for good reason.





I have a fourth to add to the schit roto list, luckily this guy didn't work for us.


First off, they charged 1200$+ taxes/fees to come out. Last week I had a call for a public school, lower back bathrooms clogged. I show up and roto guy is already there, some board of ed member called them thinking they would be better because a buddy of his worked there and never called us to cancel. The maintenance guy asks me to stay and supervise for a bit as they would be paying our hour minimum either way.


*Maintenance brings me to the bathroom where roto guy is unbolting a FULL toilet from the wall.* Luckily not sewage, just "water". Spills it all over the floor. *THEN he goes and gets his shop vac and a towel.* He proceeds to drag his nasty jetter hose through a couple pre-k classrooms on the bare floor. Luckily he cleared the line pretty quick.


The kicker was when he put the sloan valve back on at first it leaked from the supply nipple. *This phucker tells me he'll just put some teflon tape on it.* I say like hell you will! I'll get you an o-ring. By the time I am back he says it had just pushed out a bit because he didn't tighten the nut enough. I gave him two o-rings to keep on the house.


He told me he had been with them for 4 years and had a been a licensed plumber in another state for 13. I call massive BS on those claims.


*I am not saying all roto guys are hacks, just all the ones I have met.*





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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Well i hear about the " we need more woman in the trades" we need more diversity in the trades" says all the H.R people in suites an skirts.

I say who gives a crap what gender your plumber is or what coulor they are.
Maby they just dont want to be in the trades. Boggles my mind why they push this narrative so much.

Anyways back to the topic, depends on geographics, how many companies there are and the population of the city.
We give work away cause theres too much ( non union guy btw)
On the other hand despite that there is too much work for us...the local plumbers union has lots of guys laid off an people going out of town for work.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

david.gamble said:


> i dont know many people my age getting into trades. in highschool i mentioned it and they told me it was for felons and i should go to college. now all the people who did want us to pay for their student loans, whose laughing now


this is the reason there is a shortage of all blue collar workers, plumbers, electricians, welders , machinists and so on..the kids are steered away from manual labor to become computer idiots or told to take some social justice majors that all end up making you broke with college loans and a useless degree...I dont care what or who you are..if you can do the work and have a good work ethic ..thats all that matters...


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## Paulie B (Oct 22, 2011)

Where I am there is just way more work than there is people to do it. I have a small crew of 4 guys. Two masters including myself a journeyman and an apprentice. I get calls everyday for service type work dripping faucet running toilet ECT.. and I tell them two to 3 weeks. Usually they say well I'll just call somebody else. Then within a couple hours they call back and ask to be placed on the list. Because everyone else is just as busy. I've tried for two years to find help. Somebody I can throw in a service truck to get to these smaller jobs faster. But all I get is felons and guys who have never lasted more than a year anywhere else. I've gone the route of hiring kids from the trade highschool's on the co-op program. Two weeks school two weeks with me. Just for the extra set of hands. My point I guess is if your worth a **** in this industry then your allready working and as an employer you need to do whatever it takes to retain your good employees. Because there is nobody to fill that spot. Everybody is looking for help. At least around here. I spend zero $ on advertising and 90% of my buisness is repeat business. I hate refusing work but I take care of my loyal customers who have been with me for years first. And any new customers get put on a list and when we can get to them we get to them. But it sure would be nice to have one more clean guy or gal that I could trust to come in and help us out. It's a good problem to have and am thankful. But it's stressful trying to get so much done and maintain quality control. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Paulie B said:


> Where I am there is just way more work than there is people to do it. I have a small crew of 4 guys. Two masters including myself a journeyman and an apprentice. I get calls everyday for service type work dripping faucet running toilet ECT.. and I tell them two to 3 weeks. Usually they say well I'll just call somebody else. Then within a couple hours they call back and ask to be placed on the list. Because everyone else is just as busy. I've tried for two years to find help. Somebody I can throw in a service truck to get to these smaller jobs faster. But all I get is felons and guys who have never lasted more than a year anywhere else. I've gone the route of hiring kids from the trade highschool's on the co-op program. Two weeks school two weeks with me. Just for the extra set of hands. My point I guess is if your worth a **** in this industry then your allready working and as an employer you need to do whatever it takes to retain your good employees. Because there is nobody to fill that spot. Everybody is looking for help. At least around here. I spend zero $ on advertising and 90% of my buisness is repeat business. I hate refusing work but I take care of my loyal customers who have been with me for years first. And any new customers get put on a list and when we can get to them we get to them. But it sure would be nice to have one more clean guy or gal that I could trust to come in and help us out. It's a good problem to have and am thankful. But it's stressful trying to get so much done and maintain quality control.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Here there's over 110 plumbing outfits, from big companies to one man shops and many of them only keep their licence active but are back as employees for someone else.

Good or bad employees are not very well treated or paid properly, they usually move from company to company. Over here employees who are fast because they cut corners are preferred by them, they'll try to keep them a little bit more saying to the other guys he's the champion. Companies don't care, cheap out off everything, bring in the dough and we'll kick you back to your cell. 

Most of them have zero advertisement and I wonder how they stay in business, people call them out from thin air??? Or maybe they are satisfied getting only a job once in a while??


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## txdraindoctor (Aug 14, 2020)

my guess would be that when they say there's a shortage of plumbers, depending on who it's coming from. for instance customers it could mean 1 of 2 things. (A) they may mean not enough plumbers whos willing to give free estimates or cheap plumbers. or (B) they could mean not enough top quality plumbers. then again theres a shortage of those all around. im finding now days some plumbers just wanna get in and get out and move onto the next. instead actually spending quality time with their customer in order to truly build the long term relationship. one thing i live and breath by is that i make more money through long term repeat business that overnight business. yep and i agree with your opinion why theyre looking for plumbers. especially if the work just isnt there. why would a man leave a job if he knows theres not enough work. classic sign. bad management and bad business owner. this has been by far the roughest year so far. which i know it has been for everyone. if a business owner doesnt have work for his men so they can put food on the table, then several issues come into paly. he hasnt gotten the good reputation he thinks he has otherwise customers would be knocking down his door. secondly hes charging way to much if he can actually sit around without the steady cash flow. money comes in and money goes out usually 10x faster than we make it. also hes pocketing way to much of his profit and spending it on himself instead of putting back into the company to keep it on financial stable ground. as well as using profit to help grow his business. maybe ifhe did that he could afford to keep his employees happy. when a person decides to take to employees, he physically making the decision whether he realizes it or not, to accept responsibilty for that employee and his families well being and financial security. doesnt mean hes there to babysit.it just means that hes willing to put that employee and his families needs above his own. company always comes first, then customers, employees, and yep hes last on the totem pole. i see alot of business owners do the exact opposite. and it doesnt matter large or small. it depends on that business owners natural inner character. lately ive been selling jobs here and there just to break even. because people are still nervous about the covid19 they dont know if they are gonna have a job the next day or next week. that decision comes down to one thing, is profit more important now than the employees who stuck by me through thick and thin. something coming in is better nothing. when this happens and i forced to sell a job a cost just to keep my guys busy. i let them know right away too. and i even tell the customer because ofhow it is i just wanna keep my men busy thats all. they gotta pay bills. and 80-90% of customer sympethize with that and respect the fact youre putting your guys needs first in this instance. learned that by being treated like a number. didnt matter i was making 2.8millions in sales or not. everyone is replacable. this guy came in bought out actually he did a cheap ass snake in the grass hostile take over. made a deal with both of the children who were actually in the 50s at the time. made a secret deal to buy shares so they could retire. neither one knew anything. well yep now hes majority owner. of what used to be the best company and most reputable company in houston. only houstons elite plumbers worked there. now they all own their own businesses. i grew up in the orignal company before he took over. so yeah i know a hell of alot about why those guysleft. sorry brothers to this day that still touches a soft spot and strikes a nerve. before my grandpa went out on his own, he and the original owner were good buddies at the local plumbingand pipe fitters union.mostly working in the refineries. and around he shipyard. then they opened a business together. i still remember waking up in the summer asa little kid andriding to work with either my dad or grandpa. sometimes i would just put up parts on the shelves. sweep the shop. there were a few of us kids who did that. and we all eventually went on to work for that company also. then mr corporate america comes along. and little by little guys who had over 25=30 yrs invested hung it up and quit, hell we all did. and now we all own our own businesses in different parts around the houston area. and hes the prime example of wanting salesman and not plumbers. put a damn car salesman in a serivce van dress him like hesone of the plumbers not tools or parts on van. just to go sale a job and then a plumber in behind himto do the work and dont even know what the hell he just sold. SMGDMFH!!! 

IM GONNA BORROW YOUR QUOTE MR PENN. "CAN'T FIX STUPID"


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## txdraindoctor (Aug 14, 2020)

sounds like that company didnt give a rats ars. im willing to bet they were paying them on a commission type pay, or sliding scale. no way in hell would do anything like that. green hands start off in the trenches digging ditches and tunnels. atleast for the first 2 months. thats my make it or break it. do you really want a job and work for it or do you just want a paycheck on friday. thats how i weed them out. if they make it. then i usually pick one thats caught my attention the most and omve him up into my van first. and let him ride with me. so i can see where his weaknesses are and etc... then i shape them into one of the areas elite. theres a reason why i get them first. teach them the right way along with my way. just because something meets code doesnt means it OK all code is, a minimal acceptable standard. who hear would hire a guy who just does the bare minmal to get by


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## jakewilcox (Sep 3, 2019)

GAN said:


> For the past several years in our CEU classes we are seeing more and more gray hair. No younger individuals are wanting to do the hard labor as mentioned and seek the easy out for money and jobs.
> 
> The hard physical work ethic and loyalty has gone out the window. The only real turn around I see is when the industry starts failing and the pay goes up to a point that younger individuals see it as a profitable means of work, we may see an interest again in our trade. this runs true across many of the trades. Ours seems worse than others just because of the type of work.


The lack of a hard physical work ethic you speak of is a direct result of the kids being just a little too well fed. Their access to $20.00 bills is just a little too easy and they don't value a hard day's work. They don't value money.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

jakewilcox said:


> The lack of a hard physical work ethic you speak of is a direct result of the kids being just a little too well fed. Their access to $20.00 bills is just a little too easy and they don't value a hard day's work. They don't value money.


kids that have cell phones at 8 years old and all their sisters and brothers have one too! WTF! Last couple year the kids around the christmas tree received probably over 30 gifts each! They opened them and chucked it all out, only to see what was next and they were angry. We call them them king kids. What's more disturbing are all those adults spoiling their king kids daily.


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## txdraindoctor (Aug 14, 2020)

Tango is hear exactly what you're saying, and believe it or not 20yrs ago i would have argued the same exact point. and now i would have to disagree in a way. and brother if you would allow me i will explain. there is a huge difference. between a technician and a licensed plumber whether he be a registered tradesman plumber, journeyman plumber or master plumber. just like there is a huge difference between shade tree mechanics and an actual ASE certified automotive technician. however where i do agree with you is not all of those licensed plumbers actually deserve to be called a technician. most importantly if that "SUPPOSED" technician hasnt even earned his stripes and even gotten his license yet. a technician is a registered licensed plumber whos skills are beyond that of the average plumber on many levels such, troubleshooting/diagnostics. knowledge and understanding of both the old school ways of our craft as well as the new modern ways and how to properly retrofit the two together for a long term fix. not what we like to call jerry rigging. you guys remember the apprentice i pulled up into my van from my excavation crew. well hes being trained in the old way of doing things. speaking of which it reminds me i need to post these photos. we re about to start a trim out on a home we laid the under ground on in october last year. the customer has personally purchased and imported 6 24kt gold plated toilets and 2 silver. all his under mount sinks and faucets are the same as well. Not to mention his gold wall hung. anyways. well guess what "YEP" you damn right no GD compression flex supply bull**** that a 2yr old can figure out given the time. yep hes flaring and bending. he actually bought himself a damn nice combo kit on amazon. it came with the tubing cutters, reemer, one piece flaring/swaging tool, and the swaging heads. i think its made by rothensberge or however its spelled. $75. no tubular traps. could you imagine how ****ty that would look. high end fancy gold or silver toilet. then you look down and connecting the gold angle stop and the toilet, is a P.O.S flex supply. or look underneath wall hung and see this plastic tubular. i physically despise those. little by little brothers what we see as making our jobs easy and faster, is actually what is allowing all the diyers devalue our craftsmanship. which is also why more and more homeowners are logging onto YouTube these days to learn how to do those type of things. hey why dont we boycott those *******s who are posting our secrets on YouTube which is slowly devaluing us plumbers. and yes i havent handed him a sawz all yet when cutting pvc piping. hes cutting by hand until he can cut it straight by hand. im probably gonna give him a hint soon enough. he hasnt tightened blade good enough yet. 

anyways what corporate america has figured out is that plumbers have gotten a bad rap because of all those bad apples out there that dont seem to do whats right by the homeowner but live for filling their pockets instead. not a day goes by that i havent met a customer who is so afraid that they are gonna get sheisted with an outrageous price tag for half ass work. hence the reason why they began using this term. to try and stay away from the age old stereotyping. just like the auto mechanic industry started the flat rate pricing system they too also started the term ASE certified Technician. Ok so now this where most you brothers are gonna hang your head in shame for doing it, hell ive done it too before but not anymore. how many plumbers prefer going to autozone, Oreilys, Napa to buy auto parts instead the actual dealership. LMFAO yep exactly. and why because the dealership is more expensive. AND!!! its a better made part with an actual physical guarantee. you wont go to the local dealership for a part. but we all tell our customers not to buy plumbing fixtures or W/H from lowes or home depot, GO get them from a supply house we say they are better made. which is true. look the same but not made the same. every plumber should know that. 

But those guys have to physically take that course and pass to get the certification. i understand completely where you come from and stance on this. and yes i do agree and yet disagree at the same time. most plumbers dont understand why they call them technicians. hell the technicians or company owners do truly know other than to stray away from type stereotype. just like you cant truly call yourself a plumber unless you have that license. hell even worse ive seen guys with a license and they shouldnt have one. you dont truly deserve to call yourself a technician unless (A) youre a licensed plumber (B) youve skills have vastly exceeded most of those ordinary plumbers around you. (C) youre physically well trained and factory authorized to install and repair the products you are working on. and have not only carry the certification of the factory but can be found and recommended on the manufactures website. yep brothers this is correct most people dont realize that they are hiring a licensed plumber that isnt factory trained and authorized to install that product, QUICK EXAMPLE lets say someone intalls a tankless water heater. hes a licensed plumber and has the skills to do it properly. but for some reason theres and issue with it a few weeks or maybe few months later. nothing wrong woth your install but out of the blue the unit isnt working properly customer calls you out you get there and you dont know whats wrong and your local factory rep is out oftown for some class or seminar, tradeshow you can call tech support. sure all they do is help you with reading the code that is popping up. because they have a computer screen in from of them. but put them onsite with no computer screen they wouldnt know where to begin. they tell you to look for a certain part and check it with your volt meter. WHAT?? no volt meter no monometer. and worse yet no replacement parts on your van. which no days if you guys pay attention. little by little they are slowly taking away repair parts like stems. cartridges, all the little knick knack stuff we used to carry tons of in stock. youre customer has to wait. yet had youd been factory authorized youd be given a full line of replacement parts. why?? because the factory and factory rep would be calling you to go out and check out and repair one of their products. send in that replacement part. and presto they give you another one. worse case scenario, is they find out that the unit wasnt install by a factory authorized plumber. and so they send out an ASP and hes got a full line of parts on him. he already knew what it was before he even got there because tech support has sent him the original findings and takes him 10-15minutes and then hes out the door. the customer finds out that the plumber they hired wasnt factory authorized and throws a fit and next thing know its blasted all over social media. PLUMBER vs Tech.

me i have surpass both of those levels. im a RESPONSIBLE MASTER PLUMBER & SPECIALIST. and i dont have any customers i have PATIENTS. sorry i got long winded i wanted you to understand the true difference not the corporate america version. so dont get angry when someone calls himself a technician because he may just be one. or better yet a specialist. how many times has your very own doctor sent you to a specialist. hes a doctor right??? of course he is. but so is the specialist. only that the specialist is more qualified for that type of thing. Me personally it pisses me off when someone calls themself a technician and hes no where close. btw went to the supply house the other day and had to order 3/8 polished chrome copper sticks/ aka noodles. and my polished gold ones as well. my buddy mike gives me this look nd then i say it cone washers and friction rings. he laughs and says seriously your going old school on this one huh? i laughed and so did my student. he asks why yall laughing i tell NETTY go ahead tell him. tells him a bet 100 bucks as soon as i said cone washers and friction rings youd know exactly what hes doing. he kept saying damn you shorty maken i say what actually to earn the money youre making. why you cant remember the part numbers. 20 yrs ago youd already have the damn ticket printed out and been back already. he says true but we dont even have those part numbers in our system anymore. cant believe some thing as simple as cone washers and friction rings and a few damn polished brass or polished gold ballcock nuts were so hard to find these day. speaking of which if any you prefer to do it old style still. try going to mountain plumbing products. really high end custom finished all well made. no tubular trap old style chrome or custom finishes. flanged stops to keep from having to cut a shower rod to slip over the copper pipe stubout. and a choice between straight ridged tubing supply. or pre flared. flat or the premade beveled cone. hate those things im sorry if im going through the trouble of installing ridged supply lines. then why would i buy prebevel or preflared. 

OOPS SORRY TANGO I GOT TO RAMBLING.


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## txdraindoctor (Aug 14, 2020)

heres the crapper


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## txdraindoctor (Aug 14, 2020)

this wednesday i will take photos of them in person so you guys cansee. its gonna be a pain in ass to set these too


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## txdraindoctor (Aug 14, 2020)

everytime i look at this design i think to myself what idiot thought it was a good idea to put the closet bolt holes in an almost nearly impossible and hard to reach spot to properly secure the toilet to the floor. 

btw who out there has the ford transit van. if it was legal someone should slap the engineer who thought this up. my dumbass came home late one night dog ass tired. and when i went to get in my van the next morning, my battery was dead. i realize while sitting in my driveway enjoying a cold beer and listening to some skynnard i i forgot to turn off the dome light when i got out and went inside. well i begin looking for the battery so i can jump it off. nice little compartment door under passenger seat maybe? NOPE!!! tiny ass jack. after calling a buddy of mine who goes by southie mike. yep straight from boston but born in ireland damn good dude give theshirt ofhis backto help someone out. and by far the only mechanic i would ever trust. its actually how we met. i needed some wrok on one of my service vehicles. i stopped by this shop had already been to a few others. and yep typical sales spill. we all know it when we see it. anyways he comes back to me and says. nothing wrong with it, someone had tampered with a few sensors or something hell idk im a master plumber hes speaking french. he tells me who ever did the oil change and full servicing had to have done it. i called my office and asked the office manager when was the van in the shop last. says its never been other than the oil changed when such and such got called off the bench to go back to work. from that day on. never fails i need work done ends up a days or so later he needs plumbing. to this day i cant remember when either of us has actually had to pay each other. back to story GD battery is underneath drivers seat in a difficult to reach area plus you almost have to take the seat out to get to it along with removing a bumch of stuff. hey idiots why not put the battery in nice little easy to access compartment andthe jack underdriver seat


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## txdraindoctor (Aug 14, 2020)

Tango said:


> kids that have cell phones at 8 years old and all their sisters and brothers have one too! WTF! Last couple year the kids around the christmas tree received probably over 30 gifts each! They opened them and chucked it all out, only to see what was next and they were angry. We call them them king kids. What's more disturbing are all those adults spoiling their king kids daily.


i refused to let my kids be that way. dont get me wrong i spoil my kids. but they earn everything. birthdays. and christmas excluded. my oldest had literally helped dig a tunnel when he was about 13-14. he didnt do much because he just wasnt physically ready but i wanted to give him a taste of what it could be like if he didnt learn to work hard and became lazy waiting around for everything to be given to you. next year hes going to west point. full academic scholarship. graduates high school this year with his associates degree. not gonna lie part of me was wishing he would also be a plumber and take over the company. but i still have my mini me my 6yr old.


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## txdraindoctor (Aug 14, 2020)

goeswiththeflow said:


> I have known excellent plumbers who worked for rotorooter, and some schitty plumbers who worked for so-called respectable companies. Some guys will take any job they can get when starting out, because they are honorable and have a good work ethic, so will take whatever they can get to get their foot in the door. Do we put them down because that happened to be a bad company who was the only one who would hire them without experience? I worked for one of the worst when I started out because that is all I could get. Anyone who doesn't hire me now because of it, loses out on a good employee. Smart hiring mangers have said to me that they see that I got out of there as soon as I could. They see it as me being smart, not me being a hack just because of association.


i agree with both you and tango in certain levels, ive seen both sides. ive personally never work for Roto rooter. but have worked for MR Rooter. and it was a prime example of what both of your opinions. working straight commission is a double edge sword. which is also why most companies dont care if they have experience or not. fresh and green come on up youre the next contestant on the price is right. SEE!!! experience or no experience. they dont sell, company loss is gas advertising etc... they mess up they get backcharged by the guy who went behind. it also opens the door for the dishonest and honest alike, in the fact that, hes worked all week and really needs a good sale to make a decent check. it all just depends on the inner person themselves and the moral background. but to those few, its actually teaching them an extremely valuable lesson. thats their office on wheels. they can be as successful as they want. at the same time job managment. proper material ordering. dont over order because it comes of the overall ticket. doing the job right doublecheck and triple check your work. filling out the paperwork in complete detail so theres nothing left out giving anyone room for confusion. for instance worked on master toilet. but only wrote task code major toilet rebuild. leaving out which one exactly. next week a different toilet needs repaired. customer calls in, and either says the plumber didnt do a good job and please send someone else out to repair. or second customer simply says her toilet need repair. csr is new and lists it as a warranty when its not. the other plumber he doesnt say anything either letting them know it is not a warranty so it goes under the radar until BAM reservice charge payable to such n such. so in short the rare ones will take this experience working for companies like that and use it to their advantage to learn how to sell, do good work and having customers always ask for him again the next time. cya on his paperwork. under promise and over commit?satisfy. time and job management. coordinating with subcrews walking the job before during and after and making sure the customer is happy with how the job is going so far. these are all valuable to the fact that one day they may want to open their own business. it was my family who taught me and trained me, but it was companies like this CORPORATE AMERICA who also gave me the business experience i needed and still use today. as well as seeing what they do that i find unethical. i cant change what they do.but i can apply those aspects of the business that work and trash those i feel isnt right.


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