# Just handing out a Plumbing License Here!



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I was talking to a Inspector in Fisher's IN. He was telling me I really needed to get my new guy a apprentice card. (That day was his first day and all I had him doing was digging and back filling a 50' long x 2' deep trench for a gas line). 

Back to what he was telling me: He told me that we NO longer have to take the pratical of our test. (lead joint and copper project) So all a person need to do is pass their written exam (which is now a open book exam that is taken on a computer):furious::furious:

*Here in Indiana we just pass out Plumbing License like they are out of a Cracker Jack box.. Now!*

Glad to see all my hard work and education I went through to get my license has no meaning now! Sorrry a Little ticked off about this sorry Azz State! 

I reported a guy I know for a fact that is a non license plumber doing plumbing seen his truck with plumbing written all over it with no PC # on the truck called the city and they came out and just told him to remove all his stickers off his truck and not to preform plumbing with out a license. NO FINE! WTF!!!!


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

*Check before you leap.*

When was the last time you looked into the new testing. The apprenticeship school is responsible to sign off on the practical skills portion. I have a co worker who had to do the practicals through the apprenticeship, recently. It was not as difficult as the lead and copper at the armory, but was not a cake walk. As for the test, he had to study a lot more stuff than I did. Even though it was open book, he had to get a new resource to go along with the code book.
All told he has spent somewhere in the range of $600.00 plus dollars to be licensed in Indiana. He did take the contractors and was able to pass the first time

Now the portion I will agree with you: Yes, Indiana does just about hand out licenses. This is nothing new how many guys do you know that grandfathered in. I have been licensed for several years and did not find it particularly difficult to become so. All plumber in Indiana need to start making some noise or its only going to get worse. I personally am tired with all the hacks out there messing  up.


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

*Praticals*

When I went through the program I remember taking the pratical in class to get a grade on it. But when I went to take my Journeymans I still had to do the pratical to get my license. I went back roughly 1-2 years later to take my Contractors all I had to do was the drawlings and a different written exam. (color in the right bubble) At that time they still did the pratical. The Inspector said they go to IUPUI campus to take the test now ( I could be wrong on that) 

I was just going off what he was telling me. :whistling2: He said why they did away with it was do to eviromential people said it was unsafe!!!


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

They need revenue....to get revenue they must hand out license so they can get the renewal every year. Its all about money. I've been saying it for years. An inspected job doesn't make a safe job or a good job,they cant see inside the joint to see if its proper now can they. Just because its pass's the initial test's doesn't prove it all good.


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

The Indiana contractors testing was more difficult than the IL test. IMO.

I do not understand how so many prople fail. Minimum score ought to be around 90%, not 75%. I want a professional plumber working for me to be right more than 3 times out of 4.

As to the OP. Apprentices should be registered right out of the gate.


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I Agree with you 100% IL 

That morinig I had him fill out his paper work and the REAL BOSS (Wife) was going to deal with IPLA to get his card that day. When we arrived to the shop that evening his card was ready.. But I knew that his first day I wouldn't be in any code violations. Anyone can dig and move dirt, He just could not touch plumbing which he didn't, Not even during the unloading of the truck. He carried the shelve, hoe, and tamper. :yes:


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Maybe the inspector just wanted to feel important

You shoulda gave him a hug.


----------



## Tyman (Nov 9, 2009)

*Long time luker first time poster.*

I am the coworker that Indiana Plumber speaks of and feel the need to at least stand up for what I feel I have earned.

3KP, your are a correct to a point but not the extent. The state no longer administers the practical portion of the test. You are still required to pass the practical portion at the apprenticeship or you do not pass. No pass, no license.

The practical portion of the test was administered by local Plumbing Contractors and Journeymen. Believe me when I say that they have no desire to create more competition. Eleven of us took the test. Four were failed. Of those, two more failed again. 

Three areas that at tested;
Copper project
Cast Iron Soil pipe project
Pvc Project.

All areas were pressure tested under water and cut apart. Perfection would be a understatement.

Now as far as the testing go's it was actually very professional. I tested for the Contractors license. Code book and Contractors business law books were allowed. I was given 4 blueprints. One was of a three story office building and the other was of a nursing home with a grease trap. The other two were of a toilet and a three bay sink. DFU and WFU, built upon each other, so you better be right.

Three hour test. 90 questions. Business law questions were tough and had to do with OSHA rules, taxes, business math, employee laws. I am sure that some of the questions that were asked were not in the Code book. In the illustrated manual, yes, but not the code book.

I asked the person running the test how many people fail and she said it was around 50%. You also find out if you passed immediately, not in two weeks.

Was it easy, No. Did I study my butt off, YES. Indiana Plumber quizzed me at work and we studied at my house. I studied nightly for four months sitting beside my furnace with my books.

Upon taking the test you come to sudden reality of either you know it or you don't. You can have all the books you want, if you don't know it, you just don't know it.

I hope that this might clear up some confusion, because nobody passed me a license from a cracker jack box, because I earned it.

Take care


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Tyman said:


> I am the coworker that Indiana Plumber speaks of and feel the need to at least stand up for what I feel I have earned.
> 
> 3KP, your are a correct to a point but not the extent. The state no longer administers the practical portion of the test. You are still required to pass the practical portion at the apprenticeship or you do not pass. No pass, no license.
> 
> ...


Congratulations on earning your license.

Now hows about following protocol and 
POSTING AN INTRO?


----------



## Tyman (Nov 9, 2009)

realliveplumber said:


> congratulations On Earning Your License.
> 
> Now Hows About Following Protocol And
> posting An Intro?


*Sir, Intro Posted Sir!* :laughing:


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

*Tyman*

First off! Congrads!:thumbsup: On getting your license.:thumbup::thumbsup:

But you have to understand from my stand point.

I now have over 13 years in plumbing from my first day of plumbing school they spoke of doing away with the lead joint. (13 years ago) I remember clear as day. But in school we did lead joints and copper project, Which we got graded on as you did (pass-fail), But still had to do it for the state test. We didn't do a plastic project back then. Curious of what the plastic project consist of.

Then there is a guy telling me they are open book test now with no pratical? I was like WTF! Are they just giving them a way!:blink:

If I read this correctly you didn't have to do draw diagrams of the plumbing with the red, blue, and black pencils? Just got to tell them what you are looking at?

Not trying to start anything with you or anyone I just have a passion for this and wish our state felt the same way.

Wait until you have more than a decade in plumbing and own your own business your veiw points might be more like mine. ( I'm not sure how strict the officer of licensing verifcation is in your area, They down right suck in my area.) So many unmarked vehicles at the plumbing suppliers with enough pipe on them to plumb 2-3 houses. I know for a fact 2 of them are not license plumbers and been reported on several time and sh*t doen't happen to them. 

I'm just fed up with our system.

I wish we were more like Illinois system it would cut down on the hacks!


----------



## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

3KP said:


> I wish we were more like Illinois system it would cut down on the hacks!


No you don't. IL Dept. of Public Health now has 9 inspectors in the field for the entire state sans Chicago.

How many jobs do you think they see?


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

*Nine!*

Let me see umm I believe that is 5 more than we have. the 4 we have only 1 to cover plumbing the other 3 cover beauty shops and barbers.. I think I would take the other 5 in a heart beat...:yes: That's at least what the main man down in the office told me (NOT ENOUGH MAN POWER) So hire some one....I told him


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Indiana is a joke*



TheMaster said:


> They need revenue....to get revenue they must hand out license so they can get the renewal every year. Its all about money. I've been saying it for years. An inspected job doesn't make a safe job or a good job,they cant see inside the joint to see if its proper now can they. Just because its pass's the initial test's doesn't prove it all good.


 
I live in indiana too and I know what you are talking about.... 
just about anyone can claim to be a plumber and get away with it...

you can start a company here and only have 
to work under some-ones lisc, 
anyone who will rent you their masters lisc. and let you work 
under it, . and you are in business , its been going on for years

you see some of the slop that they pass here, 
you can basically run a whole 5 bathroom house off just one 1 1/2 vent stack..
with studor vents under the kitchen sink , ect ect ....basically anything goes...


and it makes it a lot harder when someone quotes a 
40 gallon rheem gas heater installed for 500 and they 
pull up in a plain unmarked van with no lic numbers on it.....


I dont know how they are insured unless its under general contractor...


*Now if you want to really start some fun, *
*call the local TV stations and tell them the *
*story and have them run a sting on*
*a bunch of these "jack-leg contractors"*

right now in this town their are probably close to 2000 plumbers
that have been laid off and will do any side jobs for almost nothing

you know what I am talking about .. 
they were bragging about the union and the 50 bucks an hour
with perks and benefits two years ago, now they are on the bench.

now they are hurting big time aand will do anything.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


it cost about 600 per semester here for your apprentice training...
I feel that they do a good job but usually 75%of the kids that
go to class drop out ,


and my experience was even with me willing to pay 
for the class 100%...they still walked away from it...!!!. 
I dont understand it.....and never will...... 


If you have the apprentice card you are supposed to be 
doing the class, but no one enforces that either..

Becasue it seems that the idiots are not willing to buckle down
long enough to finish the class training anyway...



So not much is being enforced here these days....


----------



## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

I went to apprenticeship school for 4 years. About $ 1000.00 per year. 8000 hrs in the field. When I went to take my test they had just changed it. I was one of the first to take the new test. Open book, multiple choice. Something like 150 questions. It took me about forty minutes and they give you two hours. I was pissed.


----------



## helpsy (Dec 3, 2009)

Absolutely anyone can call themselves a plumber in the UK and be totally legal in doing so!!!!!!!!


----------



## boatcaptplumber (Jan 27, 2012)

why is it ok for the building trades, especially plumbing to get screwed with??? and when did everyone fall out of bed and have a pipe wrench land in there hand? 

What would happen if they eased the restrictions to become a cardiologist or a nuclear physicist?


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

boatcaptplumber said:


> why is it ok for the building trades, especially plumbing to get screwed with??? and when did everyone fall out of bed and have a pipe wrench land in there hand?
> 
> What would happen if they eased the restrictions to become a cardiologist or a nuclear physicist?



It was quite a surprise to see such an old thread resurrected. I would say that building trades are messed with because in the grand scheme of things they are not on the same level as a Dr. or nuclear physicist.


----------



## seanny deep (Jan 28, 2012)

Here You need 6000 hours on the job working with à qualified journeyman and à minimum of 25 weeks of in class school need à minimum of 70% just to write your red seal interprovincial. If You pass that then, your journeyman must sign off stating that to the best of his knowlegde You are fit to work on your own. after that your à certified plumber, in every province within canada. I did mine first time but it was far From easy. I got 82% on my gas class b exam and 78% on my red seal.. i worked mu ass off to get that .. what is entitled Where You are to get your ticket? Thanks seanny


----------



## rbaduy_tata (Dec 1, 2011)

here in north carolina, i had to face with the board of examiner. they will ask about the time experience. they will prorated my time..in plumbing, hvac which i have h3c1, electrical and carpentry. two years as asst. mechanic and four years of as mechanic. but 500hrs ot /year because of on call emergency.but i work in agency 16years start from the bottom to up. no schooling on tech schools. just good old fashion read and actual. please help me how they will prorated my time. so i can calculate 4000hrs on hvac, 4000hrs on plumbing. thank you for any help.....


----------



## user8601 (Feb 3, 2012)

i been doing plumbing for over 5 years with one of my good friends who owns his own plumbing company.. he was just lazy and didnt put me in for apprentice till now.. but now his lincense is still valid and the he put me in now for apprentice program but they wont give me my apprentice lincense till he shows workmans comp he never had on me or have for him self for that matter.. anyway arond this.. for the state of illinois? please help


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Larry708 said:


> i been doing plumbing for over 5 years with one of my good friends who owns his own plumbing company.. he was just lazy and didnt put me in for apprentice till now.. but now his lincense is still valid and the he put me in now for apprentice program but they wont give me my apprentice lincense till he shows workmans comp he never had on me or have for him self for that matter.. anyway arond this.. for the state of illinois? please help



Quit working for him and find a better employer. In my opinion who ever does that to a person is a jerk, and who ever allows that to happen to themselves is not much better. Blame him all you want, but there is personally responsibility. Add to that you aren't covered by workman's comp it not legal. It all makes a case for finding a new employer. 

Not sure about Illinois, but in Indiana some concessions can be made as it pertains to apprentice time.


----------



## Brian Elkins (Feb 7, 2012)

In Illinois (1983) the plumbing code test took about 8 hours. First you took a written (closed book) multiple choice exam of 100 questions. The next part of the test, you were given a set of plans for a three story building. You had to draw in the DWV and water distribution system (correctly). The fun began after lunch with the mechanical. First you had to do a 1 1/2" PVC piping project which consisted of having it fit square in a piece of edged sheet metal (figure 8). there was an 1 1/2" mip adapter at the top of your project where they would attach a hose and throw into a tank of water. One bubble and your out. Next was a 3/4" copper project that was the same as the PVC. Same test, one bubble and your out. They saved the best for last. You had to pour a 4" horizontal lead joint. It also had to pass the bubble test. Needless to say I felt pretty proud to have gone through that and passed. A lot of guys that day didn't.


----------



## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

rbaduy_tata said:


> here in north carolina, i had to face with the board of examiner. they will ask about the time experience. they will prorated my time..in plumbing, hvac which i have h3c1, electrical and carpentry. two years as asst. mechanic and four years of as mechanic. but 500hrs ot /year because of on call emergency.but i work in agency 16years start from the bottom to up. no schooling on tech schools. just good old fashion read and actual. please help me how they will prorated my time. so i can calculate 4000hrs on hvac, 4000hrs on plumbing. thank you for any help.....


 
Where are you from? I know as plumbers we are not the most educated in the world..but wtf is that you wrote!


----------



## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

RealCraftsMan said:


> Where are you from? I know as plumbers we are not the most educated in the world..but wtf is that you wrote!


Remember the scene in "Airplane" where the old white lady had to translate the 2 black guys talking. Maybe she could help translate that post for ya. :laughing:


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

mccmech said:


> Remember the scene in "Airplane" where the old white lady had to translate the 2 black guys talking. Maybe she could help translate that post for ya. :laughing:


 






I remember that, LOL, they spoke jive........:laughing:


----------



## rbaduy_tata (Dec 1, 2011)

lol


----------



## Keefer w (Jan 26, 2012)

West virginia was straight up selling them a few years ago


----------



## AndrewTheScot (Feb 2, 2012)

In the State of Tennessee if you want a state Master Plumbing Contractors License its a 4hr open book test. And none of it practical so we have companies here who get you ready to take this test by giving you all of the questions and answers.

You just mark them in your code book so you have them, and they ask you to call them back and give them any new questions for the next guys.

So, we have too many dumba#*'s with licenses and no enforcement against those who don't.

Lots of good plumbing contractors here are hurting.


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

AndrewTheScot said:


> In the State of Tennessee if you want a state Master Plumbing Contractors License its a 4hr open book test. And none of it practical so we have companies here who get you ready to take this test by giving you all of the questions and answers.
> 
> You just mark them in your code book so you have them, and they ask you to call them back and give them any new questions for the next guys.
> 
> ...


A plumbing license just doesn't have the value it once, if it ever did. Does any State really care about a plumber being licensed and work being done to code?


----------



## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Indie said:


> A plumbing license just doesn't have the value it once, if it ever did. Does any State really care about a plumber being licensed and work being done to code?


I'd like to say tx. But they don't have the man power to enforce the code or catch the unlicensed plumbers!! Our test is a good one and the masters is a doosy and not open book but I think from what I read here NYC and Canada have slightly harder test !!


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I'd like to say tx. But they don't have the man power to enforce the code or catch the unlicensed plumbers!! Our test is a good one and the masters is a doosy and not open book but I think from what I read here NYC and Canada have slightly harder test !!


If a plumbing license and code was important it would be enforced and regulated. Don't get me wrong, the fact that plumbing is put in wrong everyday means I should always have work, but still the health, safety and comfort aspect is what rubs me. 

Here in Indiana we only have a handful of the 92 counties that have enforcement, and that is mostly related to permitted jobs.


----------

