# journeyman liscense questions



## theflatlander (Jul 12, 2010)

hello guys. i got kind of a complicated deal and im not sure the best way to go about it. I started my apprenticeship in Fargo,ND in 2006 thruought part of 2008. started back up again in july of 2009. I dont want to through the reasons of me not working for the company anymore. Has to do with alot of complications with office personel and dealing with the local union.

when i started working for this company i had no background im plumbing or schooling for it. came completely green into the field. No one ever told me that in the state of north dakota you have to register to the state plumbing board for your apprenticeship hours. Needless to say according to the state I only worked two hundred hours as an apprentice my first year and i had actually work a little over 1800 hours that year

getting farther down the road i started to realize how bogus the states claim was on the amount of hours I had worked as an apprentice and i wanted to appeal this infront of the state plumbing board. they told me this wasnt possible and their was nothing i could do about it.

I basically became very discouraged and quit plumbing for a while. I ended up moving to wyoming and have been commerical plumbing again now for the last year. Come to find out their is no state registrations for apprentices here and as long as i can prove the hours i haved worked either through ssn or pay roll( wich i was smart about that and had the office personel print my weekly paystubs off for the whole time i had worked at the previous employer.) right now im sitting about 1000 hours out before i can get my journeymans.

I want to get my journeymans here in wyoming and see if any better opportunities rise because at the moment im barely making ends meat. I have a friend close to wear i lived back home that said he could get me on at a company as long as im liscensed. 

So my question is how do I go about getting my liscense in north dakota after i already have one in wyoming? My biggest worries are them trying to say i cant be liscensed since they didnt count thoose apprenticeship hours i had really worked. the state plumbing board has to let me take test when im already holding a journeymans in another state correct?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Google....... 2 seconds tops. Get the Wyoming license and then apply to take the ND test. Or get licensed in Montana, South Dakota, or Minnesota then apply for the license. No test involved.

If you type a search query into Google. You usually find the answer....

*Plumber's Licenses *
To do plumbing work in North Dakota, you need to be licensed as a journeyman or master plumber. To get an application, contact: 








*North Dakota State Plumbing Board
*204 West Thayer Avenue
Bismarck, ND 58501
(701) 328-9979
Fax: (701) 328-9979
http://www.governor.state.nd.us/boards/boards-query.asp?Board_ID=83​You must pass an exam to get a license. The exam is based on the North Dakota State Plumbing Code. To qualify for the master exam you need two years of work experience as a licensed journeyman plumber in North Dakota or any other state that has a state licensing law. If you have a valid master license in another state, you can use it to apply for a master exam. 








*Plumber's licenses fees: *The exam and master license costs $200. The exam and journeyman license is $100. Both are good for one calendar year. 
To qualify for the journeyman exam you need four years of work experience under the supervision of a licensed master plumber. If you have a valid journeyman license in another state, you can use it to qualify for the exam. 
You can also qualify for the journeyman exam by passing a screening exam first if you have five years of plumbing work experience in a state which doesn't license plumbers. 
The exam will ask you questions about basic plumbing principles and the state plumbing code. You'll be asked to draw stacks, wastes, vents, and minimum pipe sizes on drawings which already have plumbing fixtures on them.
The Board has reciprocity agreements with South Dakota, Minnesota, and Montana.


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## theflatlander (Jul 12, 2010)

Matt said:


> Google....... 2 seconds tops. Get the Wyoming license and then apply to take the ND test. Or get licensed in Montana, South Dakota, or Minnesota then apply for the license. No test involved.
> 
> If you type a search query into Google. You usually find the answer....
> 
> ...


Does ND use IPC or UPC code?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

theflatlander said:


> Does ND use IPC or UPC code?


http://tinyurl.com/2wuwn29


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

So , let me get this straight. 

You wanna be a plumber. You wanna get a license. In 2 states. 

You wanna protect the health of the nation. 

But you can't figure out how to obtain the necessary information to go about it?:blink:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> So , let me get this straight.
> 
> You wanna be a plumber. You wanna get a license. In 2 states.
> 
> ...


 And don't forget.......... Also wants to do it, in the bare minimum amount of time.
God forbid, if he would have to work another 1000 hrs or so as an apprentice, to get more experience, before he gets a journey license.
I'm not trying to give this guy a hard time, I just hate that these guys assume they are going to be smarter, & know everything when they get that card in their pocket. I personally could have gone for my journey license with 3yrs experience. I didn't know chit after 3yrs. I took mine after 7yrs. I experienced dentists offices, restaurants, hotels, factories, med gas, residential, parking garages, site work, grocery stores, & more by then. Not bragging, just stating that most simply cannot experience, or face enough of the broad range of plumbing, in the minimum amount of time. They know just enough to be dangerous.:yes: TJMHO


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## theflatlander (Jul 12, 2010)

im sorry realliveplumber and dontheplumber that you have no life and cant find anything better to do then slam my post. because im looking for information on the best way to get liscensed in a state that i want to move back to with the hours i have. 

I thought that what forums are for? Asking questions. IF i wanted to contact every state inspector and plumbing board I would have. but this forum answered one of my questions in minutes compared to a day or days on leaving a voicemail or email.

I Dont know if either one of you have ever worked in a right to work state but how you talk im guessing you havent. You dont make a living as an apprentice and owners want you to have journeymans. Thats job security and a better wage or is what im saying to hard to understand? I have worked in malting plants, hospitals, schools, resturants, apartments. 

So maybe for some people 8000 hours isnt enough time to learn anything. But you learn pretty quick working by yourself all the time. Also where did i state i know everything and anything about plumbing? I would like to meet someone who knows every aspect of plumbing or heating. 

for thoose who posted comments to my question's with some information i greatly appreciate it. for thoose who want to rag on an apprentice trying to get a journeymans liscense and thoose who are liscensed cant stand their being someone else worthy of doing the job they can. get a job. oh wait theirs someone already doing it.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

theflatlander said:


> im sorry realliveplumber and dontheplumber that you have no life and cant find anything better to do then slam my post. because im looking for information on the best way to get liscensed in a state that i want to move back to with the hours i have.
> 
> I thought that what forums are for? Asking questions. IF i wanted to contact every state inspector and plumbing board I would have. but this forum answered one of my questions in minutes compared to a day or days on leaving a voicemail or email.
> 
> ...


 
If you have been read this forum for a while you will realize that you will get more of this comments ... than the right answer..... 

Good Luck in your Job.... You need a thick skin to stick around.... so dont let those toughies bully you around


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

You got your balls busted for being too damn lazy to Google a subject. In the time it took you to register on a forum that you will most likely NEVER frequent again, you coulda had your answer.



Get over yourself. 

Now here my voice in your head singing "Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better"


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Google is as only good as what goes into it..... If people dont ask question on forums such as this then what..... Google would more than likely not have anything to offer.

Matt you did help him out.... and if you noticed he did thank you.

I would rather have a 1000 guys that knew nothing than 1 that knew it all.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I think I've heard this story before...worked that many hours, but not actually plumbing and wants ALL the hours to count.

If I have an apprentice that has EARNED his hours and has the knowledge, then I have no problem providing the documentation, however I WILL NOT sign my name to a document if they don't actually have the knowledge.

In this "right to work" State you must not only have the hours but, you must have the knowledge.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

theflatlander said:


> im sorry realliveplumber and dontheplumber that you have no life and cant find anything better to do then slam my post. because im looking for information on the best way to get liscensed in a state that i want to move back to with the hours i have.
> 
> I thought that what forums are for? Asking questions. IF i wanted to contact every state inspector and plumbing board I would have. but this forum answered one of my questions in minutes compared to a day or days on leaving a voicemail or email.
> 
> ...


Nice to meet you. :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> I would rather have a 1000 guys that knew nothing than 1 that knew it all.


Well if I ever move to Canada I won't call you wasting my time...:whistling2:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Well if I ever move to Canada I won't call you wasting my time...:whistling2:


 
*How did you know I was talking about you.....*

*Dam you do know it all* :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> *How did you know I was talking about you.....*
> 
> *Dam you do know it all* :laughing:


Yep! I Do...
Anything else you want to learn....:whistling2::laughing:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Yep! I Do...
> Anything else you want to learn....:whistling2::laughing:


 
*I will start a thread for you* :whistling2:

*Just ask Redwood:laughing:*


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> *I will start a thread for you* :whistling2:
> 
> *Just ask Redwood:laughing:*


Works for me...:laughing:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Works for me...:laughing:


*Done :laughing:*


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

theflatlander said:


> im sorry realliveplumber and dontheplumber that you have no life and cant find anything better to do then slam my post. because im looking for information on the best way to get liscensed in a state that i want to move back to with the hours i have.
> 
> I thought that what forums are for? Asking questions. IF i wanted to contact every state inspector and plumbing board I would have. but this forum answered one of my questions in minutes compared to a day or days on leaving a voicemail or email.
> 
> ...


 I wasn't trying to slam you FL, but maybe I did. You mention right to work states, which I assume you are looking at working non- union correct? Which means you are most likely looking to work at a small shop. In my experiences, with small shops, performance was more important than having the license or upgrade in license.(not saying license isn't important). And you say you work alone alot now. Will they give you a huge raise if you get JM card. We had 5 to 8 JM at small shop & all made different wages. Some still made apprentice wages. Yes there was tension there, but those who performed, & run jobs, ordered their own materials, & were babysit less, made more. Not saying it always worked or was always right but thats the way it was.
But I just want to ask you a few things, & I'm not being a smart a$$ either.
1- How much more will you get paid right now, if you get a JM license?
2- Will that much more money help you much?
From my experiences with young apprentices, most start out in debt, from buying things they want, instead of what they actually need. Then the attitude gets in the way. Cuz no matter what I paid them, or bonus they received, it was gone in no time. Last apprentice I had was over $25,000 in debt, on credit cards alone. He was stressed all the time, & just couldn't seam to concentrate, or get his chit together enough, to get to the next level.

I know I'm off topic a little from your original question, but isn't that what forums are for too.:laughing: Just saying.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

So we should all go around asking questions when the answer is staring us in the face?

I thought only lawyers did that?

Forums are for intelligent discussion of topics related to the board. AND BS.....


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

theflatlander said:


> im sorry realliveplumber and dontheplumber that you have no life and cant find anything better to do then slam my post. because im looking for information on the best way to get liscensed in a state that i want to move back to with the hours i have.
> 
> I thought that what forums are for? Asking questions. IF i wanted to contact every state inspector and plumbing board I would have. but this forum answered one of my questions in minutes compared to a day or days on leaving a voicemail or email.
> 
> ...


Maybe you could get a job as a copy editor?


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I guess maybe I am cranky when it comes to apprentices, shooting their mouths off. But when someone wants, or thinks they deserve a license, & think they have plenty of experience, but can't even spell the word "license",.......... I'm sorry, but it makes my blood boil.:yes:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Maybe the Google search for "liscense" didn't come back with what he was looking for...:laughing:


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

Sorry about the sarcasm from my earlier post. My advise, find a good experienced plumber (more than 8000 hrs!) and work your ass off helping him and you will learn the trade and make more money. Make friends with somebody on the government side that can help you figure out what hoops to jump through in order to get licensed and start moving forward in a legitimate way. A little bit of please and thank you go a long way. Be humble, be friendly and hardworking and the rest will come. And learn how to use a spell check and grammar check program. I'm a high school dropout with what they now refer to as a"learning disability". Back then I was just "stupid". If I can spell correctly, you have no excuse.:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

theflatlander said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

:laughing::laughing: Listen up young left-hander, er...uh I mean flat lander. The state plumbing board doesn't have to let you do anything that it doesn't want you to do. This depends on state law and if there is a reciprocation agreement between states. My Florida master plumbing license is worthless in Louisiana. If I move there tomorrow, I would be required to take and pass La. journeyman exam, THEN La. will permit me to take their master plumbing exam. Louisiana law states that one cannot take thier master's exam unless that person has a La. journeyman's license FIRST. My advice to you: Decide which state you want to live in and attain your license in that state.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

This trailer came to mind when reading this thread.


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## theflatlander (Jul 12, 2010)

Don The Plumber said:


> I wasn't trying to slam you FL, but maybe I did. You mention right to work states, which I assume you are looking at working non- union correct? Which means you are most likely looking to work at a small shop. In my experiences, with small shops, performance was more important than having the license or upgrade in license.(not saying license isn't important). And you say you work alone a lot now. Will they give you a huge raise if you get JM card. We had 5 to 8 JM at small shop & all made different wages. Some still made apprentice wages. Yes there was tension there, but those who performed, & run jobs, ordered their own materials, & were babysit less, made more. Not saying it always worked or was always right but thats the way it was.
> But I just want to ask you a few things, & I'm not being a smart a$$ either.
> 1- How much more will you get paid right now, if you get a JM license?
> 2- Will that much more money help you much?
> ...


I totally agree with you about starting off in debt. That was exactly me. I just got out of debt this month. Actually it was from buying a new car when I couldn't afford it right out of high school. I have one credit card payment that only has a 300 dollar limit. other than that just rent, phone bill and utilities. In order to have a small house to live in and a reliable car I'm not making enough money here compared to the cost of living.

I make 16/hour and i should get about a 6 dollar raise when i receive my license. The contractor I work for is about the biggest mechanical contractor in this state. At this time with the hard economy has about 40 plumbing employees. Their is year end bonus's also.

I'm just saying 22/hr doesn't cut it if you want to live in a descent part of the state here. its 120,000. for the biggest crap fixer upper here. plus the cost of groceries is insane.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Dam I pay my helper more than that..... dont ask for a raise tell him you want and need one


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## theflatlander (Jul 12, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Dam I pay my helper more than that..... dont ask for a raise tell him you want and need one


He said after this job were finishing. Which in his opinion was a total lemon. I will get a raise. I'm curious to see how much it will be. I have been here at this job by myself for about 2 months now. starting to get pretty old that i got stuck with this job to finish when everyone else was [email protected]@king off that was here and been with the company forever were pulled off and im stuck with it.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Get 'er done. No whining allowed.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

It sucks to be an apprentice, it sucks a little less as a journeyman and finally as a master/business owner it sucks the worst.


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## theflatlander (Jul 12, 2010)

its about done. one more sink. and a couple punch list items


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## theflatlander (Jul 12, 2010)

i suppose ts the worst trying to get good help. have to look at it from perspectives


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Well the way I see it is as an owner you must not only please the client, but you must please the Jman, apprentice, the supply house, the finance companies and finally the wife...if applicable of course.


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## theflatlander (Jul 12, 2010)

Choctaw said:


> Well the way I see it is as an owner you must not only please the client, but you must please the Jman, apprentice, the supply house, the finance companies and finally the wife...if applicable of course.


lol. cant forget the wife


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

If things havent changed Move to ALABAMA they give you an appr. card, hold it for 1 year take JM TEST WORK another year take MASTERS test thats the way it was way back, my school was hard knocks .Water service for me was a sack lunch, shovel pick , the JM left me in morning to dig ditch 18 inches from meter to house then clean up his truck while he rolled out copper and hooked it at meter and house lol crawl under old house cut out old pipe ect the only schooling I got was from local gas companies to see new their new water heaters ask TM >< ! Years ago guys who had business license for 5 or 6 yrs in rural counties were grandfathered thats why TM has a attitude about the legal stuff reguarding plumbing in our state. Me I studied like hell did what I was told, passed tests while others were given their MASTERS cards just for price of a business license. Its been so long I dont know how things work now I just send in my 100 bucks for plumbing card and 100 for gas. IF you are doing new work keep up with code changes and work with reputable companies.Plumbing has been my life and I have no REGRETS BUT LAWS AND CODES ARE DIFFERENT FROM STATE TO STATE and during union strikes I carried union plumbers in my UNMARKED truck who had no idea how to rebuild a delta single handle valve, lol go figure ???


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