# Over confidence?



## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Came close to blowing it yesterday. I had set the air bulb under machine to keep it running while I went to listen for the cable head bout 30 feet away where it was heading for a septic tank. Returning to the machine I went ahead and inched the cable forward with the power feed when it hung probably on the turn down inside the tank. You know the rest of the story, the cable kinked, and I couldnt do anything about it since the bulb was under machine. It coiled onto my hand I had to jerk out so I could jerk power cord. Sprained my wrist, and ripped my ugly glove to shreds. For the younger or head strong, don't do stupid like I did. I got off easy.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

mpsllc said:


> Came close to blowing it yesterday. I had set the air bulb under machine to keep it running while I went to listen for the cable head bout 30 feet away where it was heading for a septic tank. Returning to the machine I went ahead and inched the cable forward with the power feed when it hung probably on the turn down inside the tank. You know the rest of the story, the cable kinked, and I couldnt do anything about it since the bulb was under machine. It coiled onto my hand I had to jerk out so I could jerk power cord. Sprained my wrist, and ripped my ugly glove to shreds. For the younger or head strong, don't do stupid like I did. I got off easy.


:no::no::no::no::no::no: You knew better too :blink: You got lucky, Hope you learned a valuable lesson and that is respect for those machines.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Absolutely :yes:. I always figured I can jerk it free but this all happened way too fast. I am willing to take a thrashing on this in hopes others will heed the warning.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Yeah, that was dumb. The best thing is that you didn't get seriously hurt and it'll probably be burnt into your mind what MIGHT have happened. I'm sure you'll think about it any time that idea crosses your mind. We all do stupid stuff every now and then and most of the time we get away with it. Learning from these near misses can save you untold misery and expense. 










Paul


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

What type of machine and cable were you running ?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

AssTyme said:


> What type of machine and cable were you running ?


It's a Mytana with 3/4" cable


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> It's a Mytana with 3/4" cable



You got lucky !


Be careful :yes:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

AssTyme said:


> You got lucky !
> 
> 
> Be careful :yes:


 _sure did, I know a guy whose hand and wrist was broken up with that thing. Thinking that ugly glove saved my hide, literally._


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks for sharing your pain and chagrin with us. I hope that the one man shops and young 'uns pay heed.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I was carrying sink machine down from roof today. I missed a rung on the ladder, fortunatly it was one of the last one and I caught myself. This definatly got to thinkin a little bit more, nice wake up call.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

On a funny note, I'll share a story about something that happened about 8 years ago. This was a guy that worked at the same company I did but I wasn't there to see it, wish I was. 

He had 40-50 feet of 5/8" cable out of his Spartan 300 for some reason (maybe measuring it to determine where the problem was, I don't know) and didn't want to push it all back into the drum. He thought he could just put the bulb under the machine and pop the auto feed into reverse. Of course the cable starts dancing all over the yard so he thinks it's a good idea to go over there and use the instep of his boot to keep the cable in one place. The cutter grabbed his baggy pants and started winding them up, tearing a huge gash in them. He had to run back to the machine, while it was running and his pants were being shredded, and tackled the machine off of the bulb. It's a true story, I saw the pants afterwards. They were torn up to within a foot of the crotch.  He got lucky too but his story was *and is* funny as hell to me. 




Paul


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> I was carrying sink machine down from roof today. I missed a rung on the ladder, fortunatly it was one of the last one and I caught myself. This definatly got to thinkin a little bit more, nice wake up call.


Yeah that's a tough one to do. I used to carry it up but I was always worried of loosing my balance. So now I use a rope.


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> Yeah that's a tough one to do. I used to carry it up but I was always worried of loosing my balance. So now I use a rope.



Plain and simple, I DO NOT go on ANY roof :no:



Well.... only on my own house for repair/maintenance :yes:


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## ap plumbing (Nov 9, 2010)

Never take those machines 4 granted my buddy lost his finger on a spartan machine.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

AssTyme said:


> Plain and simple, I DO NOT go on ANY roof :no:


 
I can upsell a cleanout, stay on the ground every time before I take a chance on a roof.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

AssTyme said:


> Plain and simple, I DO NOT go on ANY roof :no:
> 
> 
> 
> Well.... only on my own house for repair/maintenance :yes:


What do you do? These days I find myself on roofs every day for either sink Machine or sewer cleaning.


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

This is why I perfer to have a helper around when I am operating any machine. Yeah The cost may suck, But my health and saftey are worth a few bucks


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## ap plumbing (Nov 9, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I can upsell a cleanout, stay on the ground every time before I take a chance on a roof.


 but r u able to sell a cleanout every time :no:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I try but can't sell C/O's every time unless I've dug up the line. But man seems like 8 out of 10 sewers these days are tough.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I started plumbing in 76 ( yeah I'm olddddddd ) lol but alot of the sewer lines in that day are mostly still in operation today and getting tougher to rod out. I remember back when as a helper we would dig them up. Sometimes might take 2 or 3 trys before finding the line.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Sink clogs and no cleanout? Pull the trap, probably needs to be replaced anyway. 

Mainline and no cleanout? Put one in or pull a toilet. We charge $498 to pull, reset and cable. With minimal material involved, it can be pretty profitable in you can work fast and clean.

Our invoices have a clause that bar us from climbing roofs for unsafe conditions.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

No basements here, I dont like to rod kitchen sink and washer drains from inside the house if it has a VTR. One reason is that I like to have water running when rodding the line if possible, does a better cleaning job.Another reason is that you can make a mess in the house if not careful, no one cares if i get black crud on their roof. For sewer line I have a gen-eye locator, and most times I use it to find line and install a clean out.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> No basements here, I dont like to rod kitchen sink and washer drains from inside the house if it has a VTR. One reason is that I like to have water running when rodding the line if possible, does a better cleaning job.Another reason is that you can make a mess in the house if not careful, no one cares if i get black crud on their roof. For sewer line I have a gen-eye locator, and most times I use it to find line and install a clean out.


So you get on roof to send snake or fish tape down to locate on?


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> What do you do? These days I find myself on roofs every day for either sink Machine or sewer cleaning.




Why go on the roof to rod a sink ? Remove the trap. 

If need be I will pull a toilet for a main line. Around here 95% of houses have a basement with a cleanout.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> So you get on roof to send snake or fish tape down to locate on?


 
Yes, I use sink machine to go thru vent for main line. Then hook up the Gen-eye transmitter to the cable. Then I use the locator to find the line outside dig it up, and do my best to sell a clean out. Some sewer lines are easy to find with a probe rod, but In the summer the ground is very hard and the locator is the way to go. Most roofs around here are not very steep, not much snow here. The newer houses have some extreme pitch to them, but if its new it had better have some clean outs.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

JK949 said:


> Mainline and no cleanout? Put one in or pull a toilet. We charge $498 to pull, reset and cable. With minimal material involved, it can be pretty profitable in you can work fast and clean.


 
Yeah, I'd say. With as slow as I've been recently, I'd be doing VERY WELL if I could do one of those per day. 




Paul


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I don't go on roof unless I have too, I rod sinks and lavs from under cabinets typically. I'm still learning the Navitrack and don't trust myself to it just yet. I sent a sink machine cable down vent Thansgiving Day actually and located on it but wasn't sure of the readings I was getting. Got impatient and ran sewer cable and knocked it out.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I've ran a machine in neutral or reverse (spartan) but never forward, unattended. 

Many times and I still will, I will put the air bulb under the machine and go to the truck, make a phone call or eat twinkies.


I'm listening to the machine the entire time. First sign of trouble I'm going back to it, jam my foot between the drum and frame to slow it down after removing the air switch from underneath. Works great and stops the drum instantly.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Hear ya I do that too, sometimes do paper work while machine is retrieving cable. But only if nearby and in eye shot. What I got into the other day won't happen again though.


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> the cable kinked, and I couldnt do anything about it since the bulb was under machine.


For twenty years, I've only used a pedal on a sewer machine if I was running a cable over a distance, such as through a basement window or a main roof vent. If it were inherently unsafe, it should have gotten me by now. It hasn't.

I've seen plenty guys get a hand/wrist injured by the 3/4" cable, but none of my trainees ever did. I trained them to work without a pedal.

I have nothing against safety measures as such, even redundant layers of safety measures. I'm convinced by years of experience, though, that the pedal keeps some guys from ever mastering their machine.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Some Damn Idiot said:


> I put the machine on the foot pedal and run down to the nearest bar to have a couple of shots while the machine cables the drain for me. :blink:


Don't come to my house...

I bet you go through a lot of cables...
Maybe some break off in the line.... :whistling2:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Don't come to my house...
> 
> I bet you go through a lot of cables...
> Maybe some break off in the line.... :whistling2:


I get drunk before going to the drain job. That solves this problem completely.


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

this is a sh*&&y way to die :thumbdown:


http://www.justicenewsflash.com/200...g-entangled-sewer-equipment_200910242450.html


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

I set the air bulb under my machine all the time on my K-7500 but I`ve been doing it for years. 
*Over confidence? *
*No, I`m just that good *


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Air bulb? What's that?

I do carry my K-60 up on a roof now and then. Ya gotta be careful not to drop a 15' section down a stack . . .

Whenever I think I might like a nice sled machine, stories like this one make me really think twice. Long ago, I had a General with a 3/4" cable and I sure feel like I was lucky to run it for so many years without any serious injury, except to the machine, of course. I remember that one nearly throwing me right off the roof when I hit a clog. (Yes, it had a bulb, and I was just kidding about that.)


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Had a General mini rooter stand me up on a roof one time. That was the last time I touched a drum machine. You can call it inexperience, not knowing the machine, or bad luck. It all adds up to the same thing...we only use sectional machines now.

There isn't enough money for me to put anybody on my worker's comp policy on the business end of a drum machine. Of course, now all the stories of injuries with sectional machines will probably surface.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I started off running sectionals, too much work to clear a drain. I don't like handling equipment that much to make money.

Bought a drum machine and have been using drums since 98' with no intention of going back. 

I've learned to work smarter, not harder in my age.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Had a General mini rooter stand me up on a roof one time. That was the last time I touched a drum machine. You can call it inexperience, not knowing the machine, or bad luck. It all adds up to the same thing...we only use sectional machines now.
> 
> There isn't enough money for me to put anybody on my worker's comp policy on the business end of a drum machine. Of course, now all the stories of injuries with sectional machines will probably surface.


Well I know many of guys missing fingers from a sectional machine, but it was their own ignorance not using the "mitt" to handle the cables.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> ..not using the "mitt" to handle the cables...


Now that takes a special kind of stupid.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Now that takes a special kind of stupid.


I could say the same about people getting hurt on a drum machine. I mean heck my father operated drum machines for over 50 years, my brother for 30 myself for 25 years none of use has gotten hurt by one. 

Do you use the "mitt" for your sectional machine or do you use leather gloves? Cause the guys that lost fingers got them caught in the Ridgid heavy duty (open wound) 1 1/4" cable wearing leather gloves. It only takes a second to happen. Think about it have you ever built up enough torque on your sectional cable machine to spin the motor in reverse? I have and if you let the clutch loose before all the torque has been released the cable will free spin very fast and can grab the glove in the process and tear the finger right off.

Any powered machine is dangerous and can hurt or kill you. I remember a while back there was a mailer we got warning us about OSHA stating that any power cable machine is considered a two man operation.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> I could say the same about people getting hurt on a drum machine. I mean heck my father operated drum machines for over 50 years, my brother for 30 myself for 25 years none of use has gotten hurt by one.
> 
> Do you use the "mitt" for your sectional machine or do you use leather gloves? Cause the guys that lost fingers got them caught in the Ridgid heavy duty (open wound) 1 1/4" cable wearing leather gloves. It only takes a second to happen. Think about it have you ever built up enough torque on your sectional cable machine to spin the motor in reverse? I have and if you let the clutch loose before all the torque has been released the cable will free spin very fast and can grab the glove in the process and tear the finger right off.
> 
> Any powered machine is dangerous and can hurt or kill you. I remember a while back there was a mailer we got warning us about OSHA stating that any power cable machine is considered a two man operation.


We use "ugly gloves", never leather. Someone posted they train the help to rod sewers with machine on the bulb because they are that good is to me rather odd. Do you disable safety's on guns too since you're that good? Yeah I admit to letting the machine retieve cable if I felt good enough about a sewer, and even that is extremely rare. I started plumbing in 76 so I feel I have a decent since of what the machine and cable are telling me. SR is totally correct in that under tork if one thing goes wrong we can't react fast enough so it's best to utilize that safetys the machines come with. I screwed up and the lesson refresher was worth $$$$$ to me and my help.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> ...Do you use the "mitt" for your sectional machine or do you use leather gloves?...


Mitts only. We also do training on proper use of the machine. The reverse torque thing can happen but shouldn't if your're paying attention. Practically any power tool can land us in the ER. Like I said, sectional vs. drum becomes a Ford vs. Chevy thing in my opinion. Both have pros and cons. Both can produce great results and great tragedy.

Obviously my preference is sectional but there are a lot of successful plumbers that wouldn't go withing a 100 yards of a 1500. To each his own. Whichever machine is chosen, consideration and respect must be given to that machine's unique risks.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Mitts only. We also do training on proper use of the machine. The reverse torque thing can happen but shouldn't if your're paying attention. Practically any power tool can land us in the ER. Like I said, sectional vs. drum becomes a Ford vs. Chevy thing in my opinion. Both have pros and cons. Both can produce great results and great tragedy.
> 
> Obviously my preference is sectional but there are a lot of successful plumbers that wouldn't go withing a 100 yards of a 1500. To each his own. Whichever machine is chosen, consideration and respect must be given to that machine's unique risks.


Here is the thing about me, I carry both machines on my truck. I am not pro or con drum or sectional machines. I am all about having the right machine for the job.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I will have to check out the "mitts" as I'm not aware of them.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)




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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

They look thicker, are they better than Ugly gloves?


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

mpsllc said:


> They look thicker, are they better than Ugly gloves?


For sectional machines they are much safer. They have staples in the contact areas to keep the caple from wearing a hole in the mitt. They do take some getting used to though.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

They are the ones that come with the machines originally.


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> Someone posted they train the help to rod sewers with machine on the bulb because they are that good is to me rather odd.


WOW.... I really dont think that is what was said :laughing::whistling2:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*Oh really*



Kevan said:


> For twenty years, I've only used a pedal on a sewer machine if I was running a cable over a distance, such as through a basement window or a main roof vent. If it were inherently unsafe, it should have gotten me by now. It hasn't.
> 
> I've seen plenty guys get a hand/wrist injured by the 3/4" cable, but none of my trainees ever did. I trained them to work without a pedal.
> 
> I have nothing against safety measures as such, even redundant layers of safety measures. I'm convinced by years of experience, though, that the pedal keeps some guys from ever mastering their machine.





All Clear Sewer said:


> I set the air bulb under my machine all the time on my K-7500 but I`ve been doing it for years.
> Over confidence?
> No, I`m just that good


There was 2 actually that pretty much said same thing.
To each his own, just not for me.


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

guess I must have missed em????????????????


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

All Clear Sewer said:


> guess I must have missed em????????????????


Easy to do, can check for yourself if want to. Posts #30 and #34


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> There was 2 actually that pretty much said same thing.


Well, I never said that I trained guys to work without a pedal because I'm good. I said that I trained them to work without a pedal and _my guys never got hurt like the guys who were trained with the pedal_. Over the years, the results were consistent. (I might add, though, that we never ran sectional machines.)

I'll repeat: I have nothing against safety measures, even redundant safety measures. But it does seem to me that the pedal keeps a lot of men from ever mastering their machines. Then, despite their almighty safety pedal, they get injured.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Kevan said:


> Well, I never said that I trained guys to work without a pedal because I'm good. I said that I trained them to work without a pedal and _my guys never got hurt like the guys who were trained with the pedal_. Over the years, the results were consistent. (I might add, though, that we never ran sectional machines.)
> 
> I'll repeat: I have nothing against safety measures, even redundant safety measures. But it does seem to me that the pedal keeps a lot of men from ever mastering their machines. Then, despite their almighty safety pedal, they get injured.


Not only do I train new guys to use the pedal...

I stand there watching with my hand on the switch in case they don't know when to let off the pedal...:whistling2:

I'd never trust a noobie to be good!


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Not only do I train new guys to use the pedal...
> 
> I stand there watching with my hand on the switch in case they don't know when to let off the pedal...:whistling2:
> 
> I'd never trust a noobie to be good!




When I first started learning the trade I was breaking in on my boss's old General Senior with 3/4" cable. Wrapped it around my arm like a pretzel, slapped me in the chest, tore the **** outta my glove and bent my fingers silly. All it took was that one time and power rodders have earned my complete respect. I've never come close to doing that again.

It's like when your mommy told you not to touch the stove cause it's hot.... sooner or later you just had to see for yourself :blink:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

AssTyme said:


> When I first started learning the trade I was breaking in on my boss's old General Senior with 3/4" cable. Wrapped it around my arm like a pretzel, slapped me in the chest, tore the **** outta my glove and bent my fingers silly. All it took was that one time and power rodders have earned my complete respect. I've never come close to doing that again.
> 
> It's like when your mommy told you not to touch the stove cause it's hot.... sooner or later you just had to see for yourself :blink:


Oh I don't care about the guy I'm training...

Those are my cables... :laughing:


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> Easy to do, can check for yourself if want to. Posts #30 and #34


Guss I`m still missing it?????????????

POST #34 


All Clear Sewer said:


> I set the air bulb under my machine all the time on my K-7500 but I`ve been doing it for years.
> *Over confidence? *
> *No, I`m just that good *


I dont see any where in my post that "I" said I train the help to rod sewers with machine on the bulb :no:


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Kevan said:


> Well, I never said that I trained guys to work without a pedal because I'm good. I said that I trained them to work without a pedal and _my guys never got hurt like the guys who were trained with the pedal_. Over the years, the results were consistent. (I might add, though, that we never ran sectional machines.)
> 
> I'll repeat: I have nothing against safety measures, even redundant safety measures. But it does seem to me that the pedal keeps a lot of men from ever mastering their machines. Then, despite their almighty safety pedal, they get injured.


My bad, and thxx.


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

Damn, I hate it when an internet fight ends so fast....lol


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

All Clear Sewer said:


> Damn, I hate it when an internet fight ends so fast....lol


Fight??? where where?????? Oh internet fight. Actually I believe in using the petal you don't. Enough said seems to me.


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

Oh yea.... well I like to eat a "babe ruth candy bar" while cleaning sewers.
It keeps people from asking a ton of questions while I`m trying to work :thumbup:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

All Clear Sewer said:


> Oh yea.... well I like to eat a "babe ruth candy bar" while cleaning sewers.
> It keeps people from asking a ton of questions while I`m trying to work :thumbup:


 

I actually passed one of those yesterday, like 14 of them. :blink:


I need to really start chewing my food better. :laughing:


Here's my "no hands" video





 

I broke that cable (finally) tuesday night.  I made almost $4600.00 with that cable alone according to small machine charges since that cable was replaced.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> Fight??? where where?????? Oh internet fight. Actually I believe in using the petal you don't. Enough said seems to me.


No, he uses the pedal. He just believes he's too good to need use it safely... or intelligently...or(insert description of preference...)


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

Airgap said:


> *He just believes he's too good to need use it safely... or intelligently....*


Anyone else see the problem here? I dont think the word *intelligently* belongs ? Must be to large of an Airgap ....lol


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

All Clear Sewer said:


> Anyone else see the problem here? I dont think the word *intelligently* belongs ? Must be to large of an Airgap ....lol


Nope...You're the only one...."leach field jetter guy"


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Airgap said:


> Nope...You're the only one....*"leach field jetter guy"*


Ouch that's painful... :laughing:


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

Yep it was, All the way to the bank :thumbup:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I carry 4 sewer machines with me. I will go to the first one, and put the pedal under the machine and barely feed it forward. Then I race off to set up another one. Once I have the last robotic machine set up, it is time to go pick up the first one, once they are all picked up I can call it a day. Plumbing is so easy. :jester:


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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)

Well if your only cleaning 4 sewers a day you must stand in the cheese line with the 10 guys standing out front of Homedepot down on Loop 281 in Longview :whistling2:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

all clear sewer said:


> yep it was, all the way to the bank :thumbup:


Milli Vanilli is proud of you....


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)




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## All Clear Sewer (Dec 16, 2008)




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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Hey All Clear, I found a picture of one of your leach field jetting clients....


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

and here's one that sent you packing...


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## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Redwood said:


> and here's one that sent you packing...






That's just wrong.......................:blink:


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