# This is getting out of hand



## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

anyone want $10 to change a kitchen faucet and clear a drain? sounds like a deal to me. 


from craigslist...


*Kitchen Faucet - $10 (Los Osos)*

Date: 2009-07-30, 9:42AM PDT
Reply to: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Errors when replying to ads?]



In desperate need of a new/used kitchen faucet, this one is destroyed !
also in nned of a drain snake!
Thanx call [email protected] 528-xxxx
I have ten bucks or barter services 



Location: Los Osos
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
 





paul


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

Heres one from your area.
*Plumbing/Construction/Handyman (SLO County)*

Date: 2009-07-29, 12:00PM PDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]


 
Plumbing and Handyman services available. Have over 6 years of construction experience with 4 in plumbing. No job to big or small and will give u a thorough bid with 100% consideration of your financial state. I do not want anybody to be living in an un-safe environment due to finances. (References available on request) Please call Damon at (805) 441-0815 or email [email protected] 


Location: SLO County
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

*License info: Unlicensed*
PostingID: 1295481829


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

yeah, that guy is whoring himself out for $18/hr. the IRS should scan CL and compile a list. come tax time, i bet they won't be hearing from a lot of these fools.







paul


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

As long as there is a Chepo and Bowes it will never end. 
Service repair plumbing is *DYIng.*


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> As long as there is a Chepo and Bowes it will never end.
> Service repair plumbing is *DYIng.*


 People have been doing there own plumbing for years and years and I dont blame them. Thats never going to stop. I blame city goverment for not cracking down on people advertising plumbing services without a license. Its not my job to police the city in that respect...I have a business to run,and its there job to enforce the law. I would never call an electrician to replace a light fixture,etc. in my home......and if the electricians dont like that they can kiss my azz....I could careless what they think. I cut my own grass,change my own oil in my van. I could careless about what the landscapers think or the auto mechanic....too bad for them. I do carpentry also for myself....too bad for the carpenters. My point is the H.O could careless what plumbers think about them doing their own plumbing if it saves them money....if they screw it all up then they will just hafta pay to get it corrected. I understand that in MA things are different and thats fine for the peeps in Ma. but I have news for them....they are fighting a loosing battle because its very difficult to know whats going on behind closed doors. Thank GOD for that.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> People have been doing there own plumbing for years and years and I dont blame them. Thats never going to stop. I blame city goverment for not cracking down on people advertising plumbing services without a license. Its not my job to police the city in that respect...I have a business to run,and its there job to enforce the law. I would never call an electrician to replace a light fixture,etc. in my home......and if the electricians dont like that they can kiss my azz....I could careless what they think. I cut my own grass,change my own oil in my van. I could careless about what the landscapers think or the auto mechanic....too bad for them. I do carpentry also for myself....too bad for the carpenters. My point is the H.O could careless what plumbers think about them doing their own plumbing if it saves them money....if they screw it all up then they will just hafta pay to get it corrected. I understand that in MA things are different and thats fine for the peeps in Ma. but I have news for them....they are fighting a loosing battle because its very difficult to know whats going on behind closed doors. Thank GOD for that.


 
I understand HO doing their own work. Good luck to them it is their own home do as you wish.
I'm complaining about these handymen and Craigs list hacks. If it were not for Depot and lowes and Craigs list. Their ability to buy stock and advertise would drop big time. But nothing we can do about it. It is up local Government and they can do only so much close one two more pop up.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> I understand HO doing their own work. Good luck to them it is their own home do as you wish.
> I'm complaining about these handymen and Craigs list hacks. If it were not for Depot and lowes and Craigs list. Their ability to buy stock and advertise would drop big time. But nothing we can do about it. It is up local Government and they can do only so much close one two more pop up.


 You cant blame Home depot and Lowes. I think they create more work than they take from me. Handymen usually screw up more than they repair and the customer usually ends up paying two times. Once for him and then me. The problem your having is a down turn in the economy and your in a rural area.....rural areas are famous for hacks here. We call it country plumbing or country plumbers. Running a drain to them means stubbing it out in the yard and will repair a pipe with anything in their tool box from duct tape to caulk. When I find the tell tale signs of a H.O or a handyman work my antenna's go up and I re-do all the work to my satisfaction......so the H.O.'s are not saving a penny most of the time. One good tip off is teflon tape on compression threads....when I see that...I rip it all out to the wall and start over.:laughing:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

You can't blame Home Depot or Lowes because they are just plain money grubbing whores. They don't give two craps about the health and safety of the public and for that matter neither do hack homeowners. They only care about one thing and that's money. Money is more important than codes and public health. I can blame code review and plumbing boards for allowing this pimp fest to take place. I can blame inspectors that look the other way. And I can blame our trade for not caring enough to do anything about it. The difference between homeowner plumbing and you changing your light bulb is there is zero possibility of you contaminating a public water supply. You are not comparing apples and apples. We have codes for a reason. Because a hundred or so odd years ago folks were getting sick and dropping dead because hacks did whatever they wanted to do. Plumbing isn't carpentry or electrical and mechanical. Plumbing can, has and will effect more lives than the idiot that did the work.

(Quoted) from other thread
the one that is still stuck in my head is a gas pipe job. I went to fix a leak, i think. the entire house was gas piped with sch 40 pvc and red-hot blue glue/no primer. for gas cocks they had used pvc ball valves. it was one of those things where you don't even know what to say. i don't think i ended up doing anything except looking at it and telling them this needs to be all redone. they didn't like that.

Had this gone unchecked and blown up, how many innocent lives would that have cost? 1/2 a city block maybe.? No I alone will never change it. You and me together won't make a dent, but a few thousand of us might make an impression.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> You cant blame Home depot and Lowes. I think they create more work than they take from me. Handymen usually screw up more than they repair and the customer usually ends up paying two times. Once for him and then me. The problem your having is a down turn in the economy and your in a rural area.....rural areas are famous for hacks here. We call it country plumbing or country plumbers. Running a drain to them means stubbing it out in the yard and will repair a pipe with anything in their tool box from duct tape to caulk. When I find the tell tale signs of a H.O or a handyman work my antenna's go up and I re-do all the work to my satisfaction......so the H.O.'s are not saving a penny most of the time. One good tip off is teflon tape on compression threads....when I see that...I rip it all out to the wall and start over.:laughing:


 and teflon tape on gas piping :laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> You can't blame Home Depot or Lowes because they are just plain money grubbing whores. They don't give two craps about the health and safety of the public and for that matter neither do hack homeowners. They only care about one thing and that's money. Money is more important than codes and public health. I can blame code review and plumbing boards for allowing this pimp fest to take place. I can blame inspectors that look the other way. And I can blame our trade for not caring enough to do anything about it. The difference between homeowner plumbing and you changing your light bulb is there is zero possibility of you contaminating a public water supply. You are not comparing apples and apples. We have codes for a reason. Because a hundred or so odd years ago folks were getting sick and dropping dead because hacks did whatever they wanted to do. Plumbing isn't carpentry or electrical and mechanical. Plumbing can, has and will effect more lives than the idiot that did the work.


 yeah yeah yeah the old backflow crap......thats lame and old. Most places have a backflow prevention device ON THE CITY'S side of the meter for a residence. What do you think about auto supply places like Pep Boys,Autozone,advanced auto parts????/ They sell brake parts to a 16 yr old and he goes home and replaces the brakes on his car??????? Who at risk now??? anyone on the road with him right??? Where the regulation???? I'm glad your not running things or everyone would be locked up an considered a criminal. Welcome to the real world...people do work at their own houses....like they have been doing for the past 300 years. Like it or not you'll never change it and you'll just make yourself unhappy thinking about it. I would suggest focusing on the things ytou can change and let God handle the rest and life might not see so bad then.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

So your argument is based on "stupid people do stupid things so we should all shut up and let it be?" Sure people work on cars without knowing what they are doing and people get hurt or die, but hey, this is America, you have the right to put other peoples lives at risk? Let's repeal the drunk driving laws while we're at it. And no, I will never let it go, it's called having principals and standing up for what's right.

Backflow education is free at www.watts.com Anyone thinking backflow and cross connection is not a problem needs to spend a few minutes there. Watch the free videos and do some reading. Then get back to me.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> So your argument is based on "stupid people do stupid things so we should all shut up and let it be?" Sure people work on cars without knowing what they are doing and people get hurt or die, but hey, this is America, you have the right to put other peoples lives at risk? Let's repeal the drunk driving laws while we're at it. And no, I will never let it go, it's called having principals and standing up for what's right.
> 
> Backflow education is free at www.watts.com Anyone thinking backflow and cross connection is not a problem needs to spend a few minutes there. Watch the free videos and do some reading. Then get back to me.


When does the line get drawn is what I'm saying. Should the goverment allow people to smoke cigarettes???? Second hand smoke right?? And if they are causing global warming then it should be banned right? Its putting us all at risk. Ok well i gotta go find a tree to hug now:laughing:. Thats what you sound like talking that garbage to normal people......just another tree hugger wanting a cause or somthing to make a complaint about. People under cooking chicken has killed more people than any H.O's plumbing repairs ever thought about but HEY they still sell raw chicken dont they? Worry about somthing that needs to be worried about.:yes: Spending all your time in the negative or thinking about "what the handyman or H.O is doing is not helping you one single bit,infact its hurting your productivity.
Mr. MHMaster its ok for us to disagree on this....I pretty much agree with most of your posts. I respect your knowledge of the trade also. We may feel and know that H.O.'s really shouln't do their own plumbing but we both also must realize that we are partial to our trade. In reality every trade and most professions are confronted with these same issues but to preserve our way of life...laws must be limited or you will loose all your liberty over time.........it will never stop and before long you will hafta ask permission and fill out a form to buy a hammer.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

You guys are both right. Alot of people do things they shouldn't but we can't police everyone. The only thing you can do is report people you know are doing something they should not like that pvc gas line. oh, and pray. around here almost nobody has a backflow preventer on their water main.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

YOU VILL OBEY OR YOU VILL SLL BE SCHOTT! :laughing:


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

I think the problem is more with the idiots without the license advertising for plumbing work. That needs to be stopped.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

its never gonna stop, unless they offer some personal happiness services too, that might be where they make some real money


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

I do not have a problem with a HO effing up his own house. I do have a problem with some ridiculous hack on Craig's List effing up someones home for prices I simply can't compete with. 

Craig's list is not a new problem... prior to this they placed ad's in local papers and have always set up camp in mobile home parks. The hack isn't going any where any time soon. The humor is a guy will advertise himself for 20 bucks an hour and completely hobble a licensed guy at having a chance at getting the job. He actually could have done the job for 50 bucks and still massacred the licensed guys. That is the stupidity of it all. I am not going to do it for 20 bucks an hour, after all it is for profit. I am not interested in practicing for free. 

Right now... so many good men and women have been put out of work. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing if it meant survival and feeding my girls. SADLY enough I do not blame some of them. It cost a considerable amount of money to do it legit and get started. Not to mention it takes time to go through the bureaucratic process with the State and people are scared and desperate, time is not an option for hem right now. That is the SAD part. But at least do it and make money.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Proud Plumber said:


> I do not have a problem with a HO effing up his own house.


I do have a problem with homeowners that think they know what they are doing based on a succesful repair or two deciding to hook fertilizer feeders directly into their lawnsprinkler, or tying cleaning supply feeders into their laundry tray faucet, they endanger an entire community by their own stupidity.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> I do have a problem with homeowners that think they know what they are doing based on a succesful repair or two deciding to hook fertilizer feeders directly into their lawnsprinkler, or tying cleaning supply feeders into their laundry tray faucet, they endanger an entire community by their own stupidity.


 Could you explain for those who do not understand backflow what and how backflow would happen with your laundry tray faucet example. Please be detailed about the "when" it will happen part.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Could you explain for those who do not understand backflow what and how backflow would happen with your laundry tray faucet example. Please be detailed about the "when" it will happen part.


You can create a vacuum in a water supply system whenever there is a pressure loss on the supply side of the system, like a water main break or a fire hydrant being opened nearby, it really is not a diffucult concept to grasp.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Failed foot valve on a shallow well system will pull vacuum.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I am thinking of advertising on Craigslist 

*Sewer Ratz, Sewer and Drain service*

We will clear any drain and sewer for $89.95 
_(From a proper clean out access.No more than 100')_

We Guarantee all our rodding for Two Years 
_(One free rodding if rodded line blocks in 2 years)_


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Better yet:

Hack and Sons Plumbing & Heating
We guarantee to undercut every other plumber in town.
We do not pull permits or get inspections thereby saving you $
We have no idea what in Christ we are doing but hey, we are Cheap!
We will be the guys in the Dodge Mini Van with the ladder on the top.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Failed foot valve on a shallow well system will pull vacuum.


 OK that would only effect the H.O water supply if its a well so that example is disqualified. So we have a dramatic drop in pressure or total loss of pressure like a water main break and a fire hydrant being opened. Ok now would it make better sense to protect the water supply at the supply meter on the city's main side of the meter so the homeowner wouldn't even be concerned with it because any leaks on that side of the meter is the citys responsibility and the general public would be protected against the dumbazz H.O that connect automatic feeders to their plumbing(i have never encountered either one of these contraptions in a residence by the way). Wouldn't that be easier to control than a guy connecting anything to the water supply and if they do it will only affect his/her home and not the neighbor's. Problem solved and Problem controlled and problem maintained by the supplier. If you want redundant safety instll one on each side of the meter for a total of 2. You could always install at each fixture but the H.O. could always remove those.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> OK that would only effect the H.O water supply if its a well so that example is disqualified. So we have a dramatic drop in pressure or total loss of pressure like a water main break and a fire hydrant being opened. Ok now would it make better sense to protect the water supply at the supply meter on the city's main side of the meter so the homeowner wouldn't even be concerned with it because any leaks on that side of the meter is the citys responsibility and the general public would be protected against the dumbazz H.O that connect automatic feeders to their plumbing(i have never encountered either one of these contraptions in a residence by the way). Wouldn't that be easier to control than a guy connecting anything to the water supply and if they do it will only affect his/her home and not the neighbor's. Problem solved and Problem controlled and problem maintained by the supplier. If you want redundant safety instll one on each side of the meter for a total of 2. You could always install at each fixture but the H.O. could always remove those.


The city of Chicago will be glad to send you the bill for installing backflow devices on over a million water services.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

No, the contamination of the shallow well will leach into the surrounding water table. In a location like say lake side property where all the houses and camps are in close proximity and many of them having a dug well or a driven point the contamination could be disastrous not only to to surrounding wells but the environment. As for municipal supplies, I agree sort of. It would be nice if all the houses were protected at the meter and indeed in many locations they are, but not all cities have instituted the policy and quite a few can not afford to provide meters. The city I live near has I would estimate about 60% of the services with BFP's to date. Please, please take a few minutes and go to www.watts.com Go through their literature and watch the vids. There are hundreds of nasty backflow accidents in this country every year. In foreign nations the rate is astronomic.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> No, the contamination of the shallow well will leach into the surrounding water table. In a location like say lake side property where all the houses and camps are in close proximity and many of them having a dug well or a driven point the contamination could be disastrous not only to to surrounding wells but the environment. As for municipal supplies, I agree sort of. It would be nice if all the houses were protected at the meter and indeed in many locations they are, but not all cities have instituted the policy and quite a few can not afford to provide meters. The city I live near has I would estimate about 60% of the services with BFP's to date. Please, please take a few minutes and go to www.watts.com Go through their literature and watch the vids. There are hundreds of nasty backflow accidents in this country every year. In foreign nations the rate is astronomic.


 Well watts has alittle incentive to play it all up dont they. I agree it can be a problem,make no mistake about that. Now to the issue you point out above. In the case above what would be the diffference if sombody just walked out the back door and poured "whatever" onto the ground??? You dont think thats a better and more probable source for contamination that for it to be sucked out of sombody laundry tray,contaminate their well and surrounding wells.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> The city of Chicago will be glad to send you the bill for installing backflow devices on over a million water services.


 So you expect the public to have any other attitude? Its all about money and I'm glad your getting my point now. But the city of chicago expects people not to do their own plumbing to save money but the exact reason they dont install them at the meters is it would cost too much. That doesn't make sense and is not logical. If they were really worried they would be installed at every water meter by the city as to protect the citys water supply for the sake of their other customers.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> So you expect the public to have any other attitude? Its all about money and I'm glad your getting my point now. But the city of chicago expects people not to do their own plumbing to save money but the exact reason they dont install them at the meters is it would cost too much. That doesn't make sense and is not logical. If they were really worried they would be installed at every water meter by the city as to protect the citys water supply for the sake of their other customers.


I have been in a lot of homes in the suburbs where there is a double check built into the meter yokes. If I recall the Meter yokes where supplied by the city in these cases.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

..................


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> I am thinking of advertising on Craigslist
> 
> *Sewer Ratz, Sewer and Drain service*
> 
> ...


 Sewer, I'm on Craigs, normal rates, no gimmicks. I'm not a computer guru but I have to believe that a "presence" is better than none at all. Who knows?


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> So you expect the public to have any other attitude? Its all about money and I'm glad your getting my point now. But the city of chicago expects people not to do their own plumbing to save money but the exact reason they dont install them at the meters is it would cost too much. That doesn't make sense and is not logical. If they were really worried they would be installed at every water meter by the city as to protect the citys water supply for the sake of their other customers.


The vast majority of Chicago water services have no meter, the larger services have a fish trap though.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

UnclogNH said:


> and teflon tape on gas piping :laughing:


i tape and dope my gas piping!


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Sewer, I'm on Craigs, normal rates, no gimmicks. I'm not a computer guru but I have to believe that a "presence" is better than none at all. Who knows?


 
I was kidding about the 89.95 thing and the company name. But I do post on Craigslist. I mention that we are licensed plumbers, insured and bonded, in hopes that might sway the people from calling the unlicensed guys. 

Now about the unlicensed guys I called them asking them if they have a plumbing license and when they say no.. I explain to them they can not advertise or do any plumbing in Illinois, then forward the listing to Springfield.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I posted this on another site, first.

When we first got a pc at home, I was really into showing off my plumbing skills online, especially at theplumber.com. and terrylove. I got sick of the take-take-take by the posters with no give back, never even a thank you. I have gradually realized that I was whoring myself out for nothing, not even a kiss. The worst thing was the freaking handymen and women asking how to cut our throats and the moron plumbers sharpening the effing razors! Enough of the madness! It's not our fault if diyers and hacks blow themselves up, or pollute the water supply, we don't have to babysit them thru the process. If they are going to do it, let them. Backflow prevention didn't become an issue until enough people died. If the hacks start thinning the herd, the remainder of the herd will start mooing for more licensing and inspections. 
My name is Jeff, I am an advice giver. "Hello Jeff." I made it one more day with out giving DIY advice.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

That's all fine and good themaster, but we are talking about people other than the homeowner doing the work and that's 100% illegal and that's where everyone is getting screwed(homeowner's and *legitimate* contractors)



TheMaster said:


> People have been doing there own plumbing for years and years and I dont blame them. Thats never going to stop. I blame city goverment for not cracking down on people advertising plumbing services without a license. Its not my job to police the city in that respect...I have a business to run,and its there job to enforce the law. I would never call an electrician to replace a light fixture,etc. in my home......and if the electricians dont like that they can kiss my azz....I could careless what they think. I cut my own grass,change my own oil in my van. I could careless about what the landscapers think or the auto mechanic....too bad for them. I do carpentry also for myself....too bad for the carpenters. My point is the H.O could careless what plumbers think about them doing their own plumbing if it saves them money....if they screw it all up then they will just hafta pay to get it corrected. I understand that in MA things are different and thats fine for the peeps in Ma. but I have news for them....they are fighting a loosing battle because its very difficult to know whats going on behind closed doors. Thank GOD for that.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Protech said:


> That's all fine and good themaster, but we are talking about people other than the homeowner doing the work and that's 100% illegal and that's where everyone is getting screwed(homeowner's and *legitimate* contractors)


Not to mention the damage they are doing to industry in general with the ridiculous pricing. Several of us have tried locally to WAKE UP the DBPR and get them to start prosecuting these clowns and they do nothing to the unlicensed. They will give a licensed guy a 1000 fine if he doesn't have his license number on his biz card and let the unlicensed go free.


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Plumbworker said:


> i tape and dope my gas piping!


 when I was in Maryland it was illegal to use telflon tape on gas pipe. Don't know if it still is and I am not sure of the reason why I just know it was. I was told that from the time I was a 1st year apprentice so I never questioned it. I know that if we used it the inspector would fail it.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> That's all fine and good themaster, but we are talking about people other than the homeowner doing the work and that's 100% illegal and that's where everyone is getting screwed(homeowner's and *legitimate* contractors)


 I could careless if a homeowner gets screwed by an unlicensed guy....they deserve what they get for calling a handyman. The year is 2009 and its common knowledge that there are hacks running around and ripping people off but yet the H.O's still call them out of the newspaper and craigslist. Aslong as the hacks are not claiming to be a licensed plumber I could careless. They create more work than they take from me. I'm just a plumber not a community activist.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

al said:


> when I was in Maryland it was illegal to use telflon tape on gas pipe. Don't know if it still is and I am not sure of the reason why I just know it was. I was told that from the time I was a 1st year apprentice so I never questioned it. I know that if we used it the inspector would fail it.


teflon can be a issue on gas if not wrapped with care it can unwrap outta fitting and clogg a appliance i usually start back two or three threads back on the nipple or pipe to prevent this


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

We are all feeling this pain. It happens everytime there is a job loss situation, everyone is a plumber. I live in a rural area and the handyman ads. hit the paper. If they advertise plumbing sometime I call their # and explain the rules we have to play by, and how much it cost me. I know they could care less, but they know I am watching and I will defend my trade. :no:


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## Rootster (May 21, 2009)

every plumber go on strike for 3 days and see what people have to deel with,do you think they would see how important we really are?


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## nipthedog (Aug 31, 2009)

Rootster said:


> every plumber go on strike for 3 days and see what people have to deel with,do you think they would see how important we really are?


Should be okay so long as the electricians and dog catchers stay on duty.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I was just informed by a local lawyer that specializes in construction law that the DBPR has been laid off to the point that it's just a few people up there now and they will only pay attention to the most catastrophic cases as they are now horribly understaffed. 

"He did less than $20K in damage? Uhhh, yeah will look into that............"




Proud Plumber said:


> Not to mention the damage they are doing to industry in general with the ridiculous pricing. Several of us have tried locally to WAKE UP the DBPR and get them to start prosecuting these clowns and they do nothing to the unlicensed. They will give a licensed guy a 1000 fine if he doesn't have his license number on his biz card and let the unlicensed go free.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Rootster said:


> every plumber go on strike for 3 days and see what people have to deel with,do you think they would see how important we really are?


That can backfire. When they had the doctors' strike in California, the death rate went way down. :whistling2:


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