# It may be trouble down the line....



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I had to go out after dinner to unclog a basement toilet. Only to find out it's the branch line. That freaking scares me big time, there's a C/O 2 feet away and I'll have to cut the tile. Will there be a BWV hidden somewhere???

I gave her a break and only charged the service call.

I'll be back on monday at a cheaper rate, she'll be signing the waiver for stuck cable and such. I told her it may take a while and it will be expensive. I'll bring the camera. It's going to be a big bill.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Still backed up? Camera is useless other than location.

I’d explore if is a bwv or c/o first. 3 or 4” line?

You need to invest in a 5/8+ machine for mains 3-4”. I won’t put my 5/8” down a 6” line. K1500 for 6”.

I know it’s tough up there, sounds like California, just worst.

Seriously, you could easily make $125k US down here easy! You’ll probably have to take a test, but no big deal. We are short of tradesmen, big time! Look into it!


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I used the 6' auger and i knew it was further. I'll cut the tile and free the C/O on the floor and see.

It's probably a 3" branch as the toilet upstairs flushes fine. the 3800 with the 1/2" cable will do the trick. I still don't want to do mainlines and get caught in roots and to deal with a backhoe or have to deal with a complaint. It's too freaking easy to file a complaint for whatever reason.

BWW are always hidden under tiles. Seriously they all do that, put it where you can't see it. Every basement addition are done fubar.

It's strange how 3 people told me if if I had time to service them this week and if I was too busy for weeks ahead. What they don't know is that this entire month I've been making 1/4 of what an employee makes. People keep on hiring those big and bad companies first. It pisses me off. I've started to work on my adwords and I'll have to spend a fortune hoping it works.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I got there this morning to find out the main line was fully clogged and it had backed out of the floor drain, what a literal STINKING 5' $hit mess.

The adult daughter told me they had taken a shower in sewer water. I guess they don't understand it's full of crap.

I tried to cut out the C/O and abandoned it as the CI threads might be corroded to the point I wouldn't be able to put the cap back on. I had to cut in a C/O on the main stack. I was thinking maybe I should buy a mainline machine....

Once I was done with the clog I asked her if she wanted the washing machine stand pipe done properly, gave her a flat rate price and accepted.

I presented the bill she freaked out, she said she thought I was charging only 50$/hr after the first hour for the drain cleaning. Another one of those wrangler group who only listen to what they wan to hear. I stated the hourly rate twice on friday, and twice today! I even told her before I started to read the whole work order and invoice. To make sure I repeated 2 times to read the whole thing, nope she just signed.

I also told her I didn't charge the 35 minutes I spent on friday night!! She said thanks but come on!


.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

Awesome.. drain cleaning flat rate for first hour and a half which is what standard job will take.. then hourly after that.... Usually explain that if it's a "normal" job it'll be that price and if we run into problems it turns into by the hour.. I would've pulled toilet all that stuff looks like a mess..


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> I got there this morning to find out the main line was fully clogged and it had backed out of the floor drain, what a literal STINKING 5' $hit mess.
> 
> The adult daughter told me they had taken a shower in sewer water. I guess they don't understand it's full of crap.
> 
> ...





Where are the pics of the new work?




.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Where are the pics of the new work?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never! First rule of PZ, never post pictures of your work!!! It will be dissected like a forensics team as seen in CSI Miami. Even the lurkers will come out of the wood works to bash you.

Then second rule, all the 4000 daily diy who visits this site daily will know how it's done. I didn't go to school and work on construction and endure pirates and being treated like a dog to give it away now.

You want pictures send a PM.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Venomthirst said:


> Awesome.. drain cleaning flat rate for first hour and a half which is what standard job will take.. then hourly after that.... Usually explain that if it's a "normal" job it'll be that price and if we run into problems it turns into by the hour.. I would've pulled toilet all that stuff looks like a mess..



This is my opinion based on the laws in my province...

If you think about it you're not flat rate at all. Then the second issue is that the way you do it they can bring you to court because you stated a flat rate then you charged more because you went over the time limit. By law in my area anyway I think you would lose your case. A flat rate contract cannot be changed unless it's a major issue. Taking more time in not a major issue.

Since you know it could take more time because you are the professional it's your duty to know which problems could arise. You could be sued for a refund and you could also face the discipline committee and they could give you a fine on top of that.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Really, ya scared to post pics. We'll be gentle. Been posting pics of my work since day one. Been awhile though.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

chonkie said:


> Really, ya scared to post pics. We'll be gentle. Been posting pics of my work since day one. Been awhile though.


Ha! mostly pics of the finished product of elegant bathrooms where we can't see the rough. :wink::wink:


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

It's all in the wording then... so much for first 1.5hrs(your flat rate), if job requires more time to complete so much for every hour after.. I never say flat rate... usually customers dont even ask price they just want it fixed and they can see the effort and tools involved.. when the toilet ain't flushing people get stressed.. I'm very calm and clear when I talk.. I ensure them that the problem can be fixed and that most of the time it's a minor issue to fix a plugged sewer


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> This is my opinion based on the laws in my province...
> 
> If you think about it you're not flat rate at all. Then the second issue is that the way you do it they can bring you to court because you stated a flat rate then you charged more because you went over the time limit. By law in my area anyway I think you would lose your case. A flat rate contract cannot be changed unless it's a major issue. Taking more time in not a major issue.
> 
> Since you know it could take more time because you are the professional it's your duty to know which problems could arise. You could be sued for a refund and you could also face the discipline committee and they could give you a fine on top of that.



if your careful how you write your contract and if other issues pop up, its a separate job from your contract, so you are not altering the original contract, its now additional work for additional price...done all the time...just be smart on how you explain to the customer....you have to be smarter than the average bear...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Venomthirst said:


> It's all in the wording then... so much for first 1.5hrs(your flat rate), if job requires more time to complete so much for every hour after.. I never say flat rate... usually customers dont even ask price they just want it fixed and they can see the effort and tools involved.. when the toilet ain't flushing people get stressed.. I'm very calm and clear when I talk.. I ensure them that the problem can be fixed and that most of the time it's a minor issue to fix a plugged sewer


You are in a place where anything goes. You are lucky you don't have to be upfront with the rate. 

If the person gives me his address and ready to hire me and I don't say the rate on the phone I can get a fine. That's how strict it is here. There's so much red tape it's no joke. To make things worse I think I have been tested on a few occasions by fake callers that are detectives. Not only on pricing but they pretend being customers looking to see if I offer hydronic heating, gas services.

I have found real customers behave a certain way right off the bat with the same intro. Fake or price shoppers have a very different first line.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Tango said:


> Ha! mostly pics of the finished product of elegant bathrooms where we can't see the rough. :wink::wink:


I've posted various pics of every single stage of plumbing a new house, installing septic system, and/or fixing mistakes. Didn't realize pvc and pex in the ground would be what you would want to see more of. There is one big rough I posted pics of, all my roughs look the same except for obviously the layout and size, but my work method doesn't change. My glue joints look like they always do so nothing new there, nothing interesting going on with the pex.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Might have a building trap at the house tango depending how old it is. Guessing you already looked for a fresh air inlet.
I eeld the same building drain 3 times past 2 weeks. Just full of roots told the guy to call a company to dig up the yard an shoot a new main line through or pay for a eel every 3 days....


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

canuck92 said:


> Might have a building trap at the house tango depending how old it is. Guessing you already looked for a fresh air inlet.
> I eeld the same building drain 3 times past 2 weeks. Just full of roots told the guy to call a company to dig up the yard an shoot a new main line through or pay for a eel every 3 days....


T.O has mushroom air vents.. Steel town doesn't buried traps everywhere


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## sethro1981 (Oct 31, 2016)

Tango said:


> I had to go out after dinner to unclog a basement toilet. Only to find out it's the branch line. That freaking scares me big time, there's a C/O 2 feet away and I'll have to cut the tile. Will there be a BWV hidden somewhere???
> 
> I gave her a break and only charged the service call.
> 
> I'll be back on monday at a cheaper rate, she'll be signing the waiver for stuck cable and such. I told her it may take a while and it will be expensive. I'll bring the camera. It's going to be a big bill.


do you just have your jobs that seem riskier sign a waiver or is that common place? How do you go about explaining it?


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sethro1981 said:


> do you just have your jobs that seem riskier sign a waiver or is that common place? How do you go about explaining it?


I should have them sign a waiver on every drain cleaning job I do. For easy things I forget about it until the job is complete or I start to realize it's hacked plumbing. I should discipline myself to have them sign the waiver every single time even for uncloging a toilet or kitchen sink line.

If I get stuck in the main line even if it's broken pipe and have to call an excavator I could be held responsible to pay for the dig and maybe a new pipe. I would be held responsible to reno their basement too if it got stuck under the slab. As a professional it's our duty to know these things and inform the customer beforehand. If you're an employee the boss would probably have to foot the entire bill if a waiver wasn't signed.

If they sign a waiver stating they pay for everything then it's on them unless you haven't use the proper equipment. I doubt any company in my area has a waiver, they are bad apples and seems people don't sue them or file a complaint. Me as a one man show it feels like they can go after me because I'm small potatoes and easy to blame.


I read a court case where a plumber got his cable got stuck and had to extract it and sent the bill to the customer. The court ruled for the customer and the plumber had to pay for it.


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## sethro1981 (Oct 31, 2016)

Tango said:


> I should have them sign a waiver on every drain cleaning job I do. For easy things I forget about it until the job is complete or I start to realize it's hacked plumbing. I should discipline myself to have them sign the waiver every single time even for uncloging a toilet or kitchen sink line.
> 
> If I get stuck in the main line even if it's broken pipe and have to call an excavator I could be held responsible to pay for the dig and maybe a new pipe. I would be held responsible to reno their basement too if it got stuck under the slab. As a professional it's our duty to know these things and inform the customer beforehand. If you're an employee the boss would probably have to foot the entire bill if a waiver wasn't signed.
> 
> ...


Yeah ive been lucky i haven't ever been stuck so bad i haven't been able to stay calm and patient and get free so far!Seems like the bigger outfits around kansas city always tell the customer the line is broken and bill the customer for the dig,when they get stuck ....but they all have digging equipment and can cover up the evidence i dont have that luxury.


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