# Pop-up drain blues



## Keysplumber (Dec 28, 2011)

Good evening all. Having lots of trouble with various pop-up drains leaking. As a rule I always swap out plastic pop-up drains that come with Delta and Moen faucets for Dearborn brass type. But I am getting steady small leakage through the threading below the gasket nut. My problem persists in China ceramic sinks and cultured marble sinks. I have used Oatey putty and Hercules brand without very good results. I am 18 year veteran and these leaks are pretty embarrassing. Please help me figure out what I am doing wrong. I apply rectorseal #5 two extension tube as I have always done with good results the leaking is from the threads below the nut as mentioned earlier. One more thing I always put a pretty fat bead of putty underneath the drain rim, could that be the problem?


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Keysplumber said:


> Good evening all. Having lots of trouble with various pop-up drains leaking. As a rule I always swap out plastic pop-up drains that come with Delta and Moen faucets for Dearborn brass type. But I am getting steady small leakage through the threading below the gasket nut. My problem persists in China ceramic sinks and cultured marble sinks. I have used Oatey putty and Hercules brand without very good results. I am 18 year veteran and these leaks are pretty embarrassing. Please help me figure out what I am doing wrong. I apply rectorseal #5 two extension tube as I have always done with good results the leaking is from the threads below the nut as mentioned earlier. One more thing I always put a pretty fat bead of putty underneath the drain rim, could that be the problem?


18 years? Yer a baby!

Try tightening the nut a lot.


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## mires (Oct 14, 2012)

How long has it been going on? Could be a problem with the drain itself? Or do you have this problem with drains from other companies as well?


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

Sounds like A problem a first year apprentice would have. After 18 years, even if you have a leak you should know enough to see where it went wrong.

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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

i install them the same way. some guys at the old shop put thread tape on the threads before tightening the nut. the same guys did it on tub drains as well. if there is threads and no ferril, it gets taped. i dont do it that way but i would if i were in your boots.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Had similar problem on last 2 pop ups we installed. One was a rusted section of drain on an old porcelain cast iron lav that cause a leak; The second was too much movement of the pop up during installation and over tightening which caused the putty to squeeze out from under the rim of the pop up.


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## Keysplumber (Dec 28, 2011)

jmc12185 said:


> Sounds like A problem a first year apprentice would have. After 18 years, even if you have a leak you should know enough to see where it went wrong.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


You would think so right? They usually take 2 to 3 days to show up. Do you use a thin bead of putty or thick? Always applied it thick. I have never had this problem really before that's why the post. There is no need for some of you guys to be dicks and knock my plumbing experience. Isn't that what this forum is for?To seek help


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## Keysplumber (Dec 28, 2011)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> i install them the same way. some guys at the old shop put thread tape on the threads before tightening the nut. the same guys did it on tub drains as well. if there is threads and no ferril, it gets taped. i dont do it that way but i would if i were in your boots.



Thats the way I have always done it and not had any problems. It's frustrating. I have seen the new "stainless" putty and that looks stickier maybe that would give me a better seal.?


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## Gruvplumbing (Dec 26, 2013)

I've always used putty on the rim then also took a small piece and roll it so it's thin. Then I put that between the rubber gasket and the metal washer before I tighten up.


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

Keysplumber said:


> You would think so right? They usually take 2 to 3 days to show up. Do you use a thin bead of putty or thick? Always applied it thick. I have never had this problem really before that's why the post. There is no need for some of you guys to be dicks and knock my plumbing experience. Isn't that what this forum is for?To seek help


 I am sorry. I didn't mean to come across like an a-hole. I do all my pop ups the same way everytime and never have any problems.

<UIPanGestureVelocitySample: 0x752290>


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

Dope, putty and fill them up a few times and put a paper towel under for the homeowner to check in a day or so


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Also put green pipe dope on the threads that screw into the threaded flange. I've had leaks before for not doing that.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

sierra2000 said:


> Also put green pipe dope on the threads that screw into the threaded flange. I've had leaks before for not doing that.












Exactly. I was taught that years ago when I started.

I dope up the threads on top of the cone washer as well.


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## jmc12185 (Aug 27, 2013)

I pretty much dope everything with threads and/or friction..... I love dope

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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I only use the stainless putty and I grease up the drain body threads with stem grease. I also put stem grease where the gasket and the nut meet. I don't put putty on the bottom gasket.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I use stainless putty under the top flange, the only purpose is to seal the drain flange so water will not leak out of the sink and down the drain...

The rubber mack washer seals the drain to the underside of the sink, teflon paste on the threads where the mack washer and nut lands when tightened will prevent any leakage down through the threads inside the mack washer center...

Works for me...


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## Keysplumber (Dec 28, 2011)

jmc12185 said:


> I am sorry. I didn't mean to come across like an a-hole. I do all my pop ups the same way everytime and never have any problems.
> 
> <UIPanGestureVelocitySample: 0x752290>



No worries man. I think I needed a snickers... Lol


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## Gruvplumbing (Dec 26, 2013)

Who knew there where so many ways to install a pop up. Haha.


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## Keysplumber (Dec 28, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I use stainless putty under the top flange, the only purpose is to seal the drain flange so water will not leak out of the sink and down the drain...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome thank you! Will try today and see what transpires. I will let you know if problem solved.


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## plumsolver (Apr 7, 2011)

We have abandoned using putty at all anymore silicone holds so much better and doesn't dry out and crack plus it doesn't add any extra pressure on plastic popups , use in and under sink and you will have no problems... same as tub drains I quit carrying putty on truck other day when I found tub of it rock hard in side bin...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Dearborn brass are Home Depot crap...


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Redwood said:


> ......The rubber mack washer seals the drain to the underside of the sink, teflon paste on the threads where the mack washer and nut lands when tightened will prevent any leakage down through the threads inside the mack washer center...
> 
> Works for me...


Same here. Putty on top and Rectorseal 5 on the threads. Actually I don't use a lot of putty because you can have problems with the overflow drain.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Gruvplumbing said:


> I've always used putty on the rim then also took a small piece and roll it so it's thin. Then I put that between the rubber gasket and the metal washer before I tighten up.


SAME HERE PLUS I dope the treads so the nut tightens tighter


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

plumsolver said:


> We have abandoned using putty at all anymore silicone holds so much better and doesn't dry out and crack plus it doesn't add any extra pressure on plastic popups , use in and under sink and you will have no problems... same as tub drains I quit carrying putty on truck other day when I found tub of it rock hard in side bin...


How long do you wait before running water? That's my hangup with using silicone. What kind of silicone do you use?


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

On the plastic/abs drains, you aren't supposed to use putty because the oil breaks down the plastic/abs. If you use real silicone and not DAP, i only give it a couple hours before i leak test.


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## plumsolver (Apr 7, 2011)

Usually after cleaning up one quick test will tell if going to have a problem, then dry off inside basin if any sitting around outlet and tell them to leave overnight, I don't like using the cheap ones either but seems everyone is going plastic, we use good kitchen and bath silicone we like to call it 'franks' cause I put that stuff on everything...


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

There is a time and a place for silicone, Under the rubber cone gasket and on the threads is couple of them. Water "skins" the silicone so I test fully when I'm ready no waiting.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Putty at the top, tape in the direction the nut turns and paste up threads. No leaks first try with a rim full sink... And always make sure not to clog the overflow with putty. Am I the only one checking? Probably


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Gargalaxy said:


> Same here. Putty on top and Rectorseal 5 on the threads. Actually I don't use a lot of putty because you can have problems with the overflow drain.


Yep... Just enough to seal the flange and not the overflow...:thumbup:

Sta-Put Ultra Putty so no stains....:thumbup:


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## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

chonkie said:


> On the plastic/abs drains, you aren't supposed to use putty because the oil breaks down the plastic/abs. If you use real silicone and not DAP, i only give it a couple hours before i leak test.


Not to question your install but how do you make money waiting hours before testing? Come back to the job to run water?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Hillside said:


> Not to question your install but how do you make money waiting hours before testing? Come back to the job to run water?


Sounds like he's not doing service work...

A lot of them don't know the mess that RTV makes for future work...

The common leak on lav drains is down through the threads past the mack washer, so all they need is some teflon paste in there and no leaks or just put sillycone everywhere and make a mess....:laughing:


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Hillside said:


> Not to question your install but how do you make money waiting hours before testing? Come back to the job to run water?


New construction. I'm usually doing the trim by myself. I'm never just doing one thing. I'll install the lav and while it is drying I'll do the toilet and tub/shower trim and a few other things before i test. Half the time i have so many other issues to deal with so i won't even test until the end of the day. I'm not just standing there waiting for it to cure. Biggest thing is, i will never again install a plastic drain body if i can help it. Not one single HO has complained when i told them i was throwing that plastic crap away and installing a metal body drain. That way i also get to use putty instead of silicone.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Sounds like he's not doing service work...
> 
> A lot of them don't know the mess that RTV makes for future work...
> 
> The common leak on lav drains is down through the threads past the mack washer, so all they need is some teflon paste in there and no leaks or just put sillycone everywhere and make a mess....:laughing:


I know exactly where they commonly leak and I already do the exact same methods you use to make them not leak. I think you assume that i am a moron. I don't make a mess with anything i use. I take in consideration on everything that i do what it will take to be easier to work on for either myself or another plumber.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

chonkie said:


> On the plastic/abs drains, you aren't supposed to use putty because the oil breaks down the plastic/abs. If you use real silicone and not DAP, i only give it a couple hours before i leak test.





chonkie said:


> I know exactly where they commonly leak and I already do the exact same methods you use to make them not leak. I think you assume that i am a moron. I don't make a mess with anything i use. I take in consideration on everything that i do what it will take to be easier to work on for either myself or another plumber.


Not exactly, I don't think I even have a tube of sillycone on my truck....


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Not exactly, I don't think I even have a tube of sillycone on my truck....


????? so water based caulk is good enough? cast iron sink, caulk with pure silicone. penetrations through a house, silicone. front of a sterling module between panels, silicone. shower door, silicone. it has its place.


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

If I was a builder I could see possibly using silicone. It's easier to mess up as opposed to using putty though. Putty has been around for a long time for a reason. 

Since I'm mainly service and have been from the start I hardly ever use it.


I curse it whenever I see it on drain bodies


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## Gruvplumbing (Dec 26, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Not exactly, I don't think I even have a tube of sillycone on my truck....


Are you the guy that uses putty on shower drains? Haha


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Gruvplumbing said:


> Are you the guy that uses putty on shower drains? Haha


Yes.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

Gargalaxy said:


> Yes.


As long as its not on brass shower drains...or plastic, its all good.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Gruvplumbing said:


> Are you the guy that uses putty on shower drains? Haha


Yes, I also use good quality drains that don't need to be glued in place with sillycone to remain leak free and properly bed the shower or tub so it doesn't flex and start leaking...:yes:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> ????? so water based caulk is good enough? cast iron sink, caulk with pure silicone. penetrations through a house, silicone. front of a sterling module between panels, silicone. shower door, silicone. it has its place.


I like Phenoseal Vinyl Adhesive Caulk...
It is inexpensive...
Easy to use...
Cleans up with water...
Dresses out nicely with a wet finger...
It doesn't harden and crack...
Adheres nicely to tile, glass, metal, porcelain and other surfaces without pulling loose or developing a mold line at the edge...
Available in several colors and translucent...

Plus I never had an entire tube cure on me rendering it useless...

Like I said I don't have a use for sillycone...
Never did & probably never will...


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

I had a local 130 Jman tell me he silicones tubular. I was like----Hackity hack hack hack hack-next subject


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## Buddy (Oct 25, 2009)

My old boss taught me many years ago to apply a thin coat of pipe dope first to the rim of the pop up and then put the putty on top of that and it makes the putty real sticky - you'll see. Sometimes I also put a thin bead of putty on top of the washer as I am tightening it up from the bottom of the sink. Also, I have found that sometimes those plastic pop ups are better than the metal ones. Hope that helps.


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## themavinator (Apr 15, 2009)

Putty on top, tape and dope on threads and bottom of sink and a little inside where the rubber will seal. And dope on the rubber. Ive never had a leak through the threads although i have cracked plastic pop ups from over tightening


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## Nealfromjpt (Oct 10, 2012)

putty on top, stem grease on the rubber washer and threads, teflon tape for the tailpiece = few if any callbacks for me




just goes to show if you put 20 plumbers doing the same job you will get it done 20 different ways lol


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## mrjasontgreek (May 21, 2014)

Nealfromjpt said:


> just goes to show if you put 20 plumbers doing the same job you will get it done 20 different ways lol


...and most of those ways are perfectly fine! As long as they:

Don't leak,

Look clean and professional,

Are installed in a manor that will give the longest serviceable life,

And are easily serviced,

I see nothing wrong with doing it any way you like.


I use Waltec pop ups. They're a one-piece tailpiece and they've proven reliable for decades. Putty under the rim, not too much, and Teflon on the threads. A former employer of mine didn't like putty and used mono. You had to clean it up with varsol. It was messy and nasty, and hard to replace them when they rot out.


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## singingplumber (Sep 10, 2014)

I ran into this problem about 12 years ago installing a bunch of Danze lavy faucets: small leaks passing between the gasket and the threads of the drain body. I wrapped a few loops of tefflon tape in the area of the drain threads where the gasket would rest when the drain was tight. No more leaks. Now I do it on every pop-up I install.

My old man, who is still plumbing every day at 78, calls me "Captain overkill" when he sees me do stuff like this. What can I say: I really hate call-backs.


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## Best Darn Sewer (Dec 23, 2012)

singingplumber said:


> I ran into this problem about 12 years ago installing a bunch of Danze lavy faucets: small leaks passing between the gasket and the threads of the drain body. I wrapped a few loops of tefflon tape in the area of the drain threads where the gasket would rest when the drain was tight. No more leaks. Now I do it on every pop-up I install.
> 
> My old man, who is still plumbing every day at 78, calls me "Captain overkill" when he sees me do stuff like this. What can I say: I really hate call-backs.


Haha. I just always called myself the Anal Retentive Plumber. Captain Overkill is pretty good too. Like you say, if you don't get call backs, then it ain't overkill, it's done right.


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

Gruvplumbing said:


> Are you the guy that uses putty on shower drains? Haha


 I do too.


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## Leafzfan (Dec 1, 2014)

plumsolver said:


> We have abandoned using putty at all anymore silicone holds so much better and doesn't dry out and crack plus it doesn't add any extra pressure on plastic popups , use in and under sink and you will have no problems... same as tub drains I quit carrying putty on truck other day when I found tub of it rock hard in side bin...



I agree, silicone is the way to go when you're putting metal on China
Putting Teflon tape on the threads is a must, you always should when you have metal to metal threads, that's plumbing 101


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

I never use putty I use clear silicone on top and a thin bead on rubber gadget and on threads and since I do mostly service work I can remove it if needed also don't like the plastic ones use the kohler metal pop-ups they last


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