# new ge water heater



## SPENCE (Sep 12, 2008)

has anyone installed or seen this ge hybrid water heater yet? i was in lowes today and they where just unboxing the display and it caught my eye.


----------



## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

I think Home Depot sells GE and Lowes sells Whirlpool?


----------



## SPENCE (Sep 12, 2008)

i was suprised that it was a ge in lowes. its $1600 and supposed to use only $184 in electric for a year


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

That looks bad a$$. I will have to look it up. Still made by Rheem I assume

found this http://www.geappliances.com/heat-pump-hot-water-heater/


----------



## robthaplumber (Jan 27, 2010)

Looks like another over-engineered hunk a junk that'll keep us in business for a while. Someone is a Marketing genious.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Its a heat pump...it works I'm sure but for how long? By the time you paid for the unit,paid for the install and then figure on atleast one repair. Thats a good bit of cheese. You might break even but they are giving tax credits for them so nows the time if you want to try one out. I personally would install one in my home as a test if they offered to give me one. If I liked it I would suggest it to all my customers and become a certified repair guy for them. Can you Hear that RHEEM? Thats an awful lot of advertising and support for the cost of one water heater......I would need a 50 gal model. I would install it in my attic.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Looks like it will pay for itself in 4-6 years over electric resistance heaters.


----------



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

robthaplumber said:


> Looks like another over-engineered hunk a junk that'll keep us in business for a while. Someone is a Marketing genious.


My thanks to whoever keeps making this sh1t, helps the whole trade. People want to try new stuff, we install. Junk breaks down, we charge to fix or replace, that's fine by me. I prefer to be busy than slow.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Actually, unless you are also an HVAC guy who is certified to work with refrigerants, it won't be you fixing it most likely.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Actually, unless you are also an HVAC guy who is certified to work with refrigerants, it won't be you fixing it most likely.


It has elements in it also. Or atleast one


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The elements are for high demand/backup only. The heat pump is the primary heater. The heat pump is by far more complicated and probably the most failure prone. Bad compressor,pressure switches (assuming it has them), clogged throttling device, leak in evaporator coils or condenser heater exchanger then it the HVAC guy only.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

They are transistor controlled. How many plumber here are schooled in electronics? Few.



TheMaster said:


> It has elements in it also. Or atleast one


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I think its gonna be a problem with servicing them. Plus it has a filter that they say should be cleaned once a month. If you install it inside the living space its going to be kicking out cool air....that could be a bad thing maybe.


----------



## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm sure I won't see these new GE water heaters around here for a while still 1980s around here.


----------



## plumbrsteve (Jan 16, 2010)

hey, check this out, curious how old this 30 lp wh is. called a day & night, registration #, [never heard of this] 046343 631279 i'll try to get some pictures. looks like 50s or early 60s, anyone? still working!


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

plumbrsteve said:


> hey, check this out, curious how old this 30 lp wh is. called a day & night, registration #, [never heard of this] 046343 631279 i'll try to get some pictures. looks like 50s or early 60s, anyone? still working!


 I've talked about those before....I believe it has a copper tank.


----------



## plumbrsteve (Jan 16, 2010)

tried to google, but need a better way to research I guess, the thing is real pretty


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

The GE Heat Pump water heaters are at Lowe's and Sears.
Rheem has them as well but they appear to be different from the GE.
Both the GE and Rheem have 2 4500-watt elements in addition to the heat pump on a 50-gallon tank with options to go full heat pump, both heat pump and elements and elements only.

AO Smith just introduced the Voltex Heat pump water heater as well.
They haven't given any details on it yet.

Stiebel Eltron has the Accelera 300 which is really the only true heat pump water heater which places a major reliance on the heat pump for heating water. It has the highest energy factor coming in at 2.5 and it has an 80-gallon tank to supply a higher 1st hour delivery than the others. It also has only a 1700-watt backup element at the top of the unit. While the other still require a 30-amp circuit the Stiebel Eltron Accelera 300 only needs a 15 amp circuit...

You can check them out here...
http://411plumb.com/category/heat-pump-water-heater


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The Stiebel Eltron Accelera owns all the rest IMHO.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Protech said:


> The Stiebel Eltron Accelera owns all the rest IMHO.


I'll agree with that however the others in their keeping the 2-4500 watt elements have made a unit that would be acceptable in the northern tier states where the heat pump has a limited usefulness. This of course gives them a bigger market appeal...:laughing:

Based on the climate in different areas the southern states would see economical heat pump operation 90-100% of the year.

Middle latitude states would see economical heat pump operation 60% of the year.

Northern states get economical heat pump operation 50% of the year.

The highest efficiencies will be achieved when installed in locations where the unconditioned air temperature is between 40°F – 120°F. Attics, basements, and garages typically provide optimal performance. 

Some years ago here in Connecticut Northeast Utilities ran several tests on heat pump water heaters. One was in the 90's and I don't have info on that program but, the second program they ran was in the early 2000 years called the "Hot Shot" program. I had the pleasure of replacing one of their heat pump water heaters from the test program a while back when the tank failed. Here's a couple of links to the program results, keep in mind these heat pumps were much older and had some reliability problems. the new units use more modern refrigerants that work a lot more efficiently at transfering heat.

http://www.homeenergy.org/hewebsite/graphics/HomeEnergy_19-6_feature.pdf
http://www.cee1.org/eval/db_pdf/277.pdf


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumbrsteve said:


> tried to google, but need a better way to research I guess, the thing is real pretty


Hey Steve,
Just ask Redwood! :laughing:


----------



## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

Protech said:


> The Stiebel Eltron Accelera owns all the rest IMHO.


I am saving up for one in my house soon. It should pay for itself in a few years time, given the high cost of electricity and the warm, humid air that hangs in my house most of the year.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Rheem and GE....finally in Lowes..*

I get the feeling that GE and Rheem are trying to get their foot in the door at Lowes now....
and thats a bad thing....

Its probably un-avoidable that this was gonna happen some day, but it bothers me that rheem
will sell their souls to the hardware stores....

the crappy quality of the Whirlpool was one of the reasons lots of customers came to me for the better product...

its just a matter of time before Lowes boots
American heaters out the door....


I wonder how well this new heat pump is going to perform in linty laundry rooms????


----------



## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Well,now that AO Smith owns American, AOSMITH and State are now the same as American.

I complained to the Rheem Rep about their shoddy product and he told me that GE is built by Rheem, but only to GE specs and that it is not the same animal as the Rheem product. I used to be a warranty rep for Rheem and I've seen beaucoup GE heater leak right after install.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I've seen them all leak right after install.....rheem,bradfords, american you name it if its a popular brand and its leaked on me. The only difference in the Ge and the Rheem is the drain valve that I have found.....can you name anymore. color dont count:laughing:


----------



## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

UnclogNH said:


> I'm sure I won't see these new GE water heaters around here for a while still 1980s around here.


Damn I loved the 80's. Maybe I need to grow my mullet back and head north:laughing:


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Screw that man. Put in a glazed flat plate drain back solar heater. 



service guy said:


> I am saving up for one in my house soon. It should pay for itself in a few years time, given the high cost of electricity and the warm, humid air that hangs in my house most of the year.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Rheam sucks now and has since about 5 years ago. They are operating on their long established history of quality. They sold out 1/2 a decade ago.

The Rheem of today is not the same as the 40 year old heaters you are seeing in your clients homes.





ChrisConnor said:


> Well,now that AO Smith owns American, AOSMITH and State are now the same as American.
> 
> I complained to the Rheem Rep about their shoddy product and he told me that GE is built by Rheem, but only to GE specs and that it is not the same animal as the Rheem product. I used to be a warranty rep for Rheem and I've seen beaucoup GE heater leak right after install.


----------



## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Rheam sucks now and has since about 5 years ago. They are operating on their long established history of quality. They sold out 1/2 a decade ago.
> 
> The Rheem of today is not the same as the 40 year old heaters you are seeing in your clients homes.


 None of them are of the quality of 40 years ago. Not the typial everyday heater anyway.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I just found another one. It’s called the Geyser( formerly *Nyletherm).* This one is a retrofit unit that you can hookup to an old tank. It basically a box that you can mount next to the old heater and hose connect it to the tank via a co-axial fitting that replaces the boiler drain. The unit comes with everything you need to retro fit except Teflon tape.










It has an energy factor of 2.8 which is higher than most of the other units out there.
It uses a Taco stainless steel circulation pump and double walled heat exchanger to heat the water. 

One upside is it that you could mount the heat pump in the attic or any other remote location while leaving the tank in the original location.











If you have plenty of space, you can string several large tanks together that would all be heated by one heat pump. This keeps more hot water on stand by and reduces the likelihood of over running the heat pump and activating the backup resistance heating element. 









http://www.geyserheatpumps.com/save/tank_stand.jpg

The down side is that because this unit pulls from the bottom of the tank (in the factory configuration), it can get clogged with sediment. One way around this would be to use the center of the concentric fitting as the heat pump supply(normally the return). This would keep sediment out of the unit because the dip tube on the concentric fitting will deflect off of the hump in the floor of the tank and the end of the tube will rest about 4” above the floor of the tank. You can then remove pipe the heat pump return into the old anode port with a dip tube. The dip tube can be plugged and holes drilled into the side walls about 4” from the end. This will allow for reduced return velocity>>>>more laminar flow>>>>better stratification/less thermocline disturbance. Since we pulled the anode from the anode port, we will have to install an “anode nipple” in the hot port so that the tank still has an anode (it probably needs a new one anyway if it’s an old tank).











Another clever trick you can do with this unit: Say you have an existing heat recovery unit tied to an AC condenser….. You can hook this bad boy up as a parallel circuit and wire it to only kick on when the heat recovery unit is not running. This further increases the overall heating system energy factor.

The unit sells for just under $1300 shipped.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

The downside of the Geyser Heat Pump is that it is a 2 piece unit and is excluded from the Rebates and Income Tax Credit...

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=heat_pump.display_products_pdf


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

http://www.geyserheatpumps.com/GeyserTaxCertification.pdf

My rep said it does qualify. I don't know if it is true or not though. He did say that the unit is brand new and just received certification.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

There are several out there...

The Geyser by North Road Technologies formerly Nyletherm...
The E-Tech R-106K5 by Applied Energy Recovery Systems
The Air Tap by Air Generate

A couple of these familiar players in the Northeast Utilities Hot Shot Program...

http://www.ailr.com/nu_hot_shot_hpwh.htm

http://www.homeenergy.org/hewebsite/graphics/HomeEnergy_19-6_feature.pdf

http://www.cee1.org/eval/db_pdf/277.pdf

I'm pretty sure that they were dropped in favor of integrated units that "Optimized" :laughing: usage of the heat pump and resistance heaters...


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

On this page: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=heat_pump.display_products_html

They specificcly list the "air generate" unit, which is a 2 pice retrofit unit. This is suprising because that unit is NOT code aproved by just about every american building code out there and yet the fed is handing out tax credits for it.:blink:

That being said, I'm sure that the credit will apply to the geyser unit too. It's just so new that it hasn't appeared on the list. Also, the criteria for the heat pump category is that it has to have an EF over 2.0 and it does.



Redwood said:


> The downside of the Geyser Heat Pump is that it is a 2 piece unit and is excluded from the Rebates and Income Tax Credit...
> 
> http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=heat_pump.display_products_pdf


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Protech said:


> On this page: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=heat_pump.display_products_html
> 
> They specificcly list the "air generate" unit, which is a 2 pice retrofit unit. This is suprising because that unit is NOT code aproved by just about every american building code out there and yet the fed is handing out tax credits for it.:blink:
> 
> That being said, I'm sure that the credit will apply to the geyser unit too. It's just so new that it hasn't appeared on the list. Also, the criteria for the heat pump category is that it has to have an EF over 2.0 and it does.


I think Air Generate is pulling a fast one because they are listed as having a 66 gallon tank on that list...:whistling2:


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Another neat little trick you can do with the geyser. You can use the circulation pump as a hot water recirculation system and still heat water with it.

BOOYA!


----------



## CSP Drain (Jun 15, 2010)

I really like how it looks. It's about time water heaters start looking "pretty."


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Looks like they have changed the wording since the spring...



> ENERGY STAR Residential Water Heaters — Eligible Product Types
> 
> Heat Pump Water Heaters	A maximum current rating of 24 amperes, voltage no greater than 250 volts, and a transfer of thermal energy from one temperature to a higher temperature level for the purpose of heating water. Unit must have "integrated" or "drop-in" configuration.
> 
> ...


----------



## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Will these Heat Pump Water Heaters not put an additional load on the AC/Heating units?


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Associated Plum said:


> Will these Heat Pump Water Heaters not put an additional load on the AC/Heating units?


Last week I ran into a rep pushings these at Fugession in Allentown.

I said why are you pushing these for here? There sold at Homey,
I won't even talk to you. He said they are not sold at Home Depot
but they are sold at Lowes. I cooled down and he explained what they did. Take the warmth from the ambient air and make a limited amount of hot water ... The energy saving is because only one element is [I don't know the wattage] allowed to heat in the saving mode to supplement what the heat pump did. He then said that the GE unit is made in China. But when they start selling lot hot cakes the manufacturer will produce in the US.

After our conversation I walked outside and felt like I should throw up. 

This guy was a pure Bull S**T artist.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

If installed within a heated space, during the heating season, yes. But they also lower the cooling load in the cooling season as well. So depending on the fuel source for heating and the load balance, it may or may not have a negative effect on the heating costs.



Associated Plum said:


> Will these Heat Pump Water Heaters not put an additional load on the AC/Heating units?


----------



## soaponarope (Jun 16, 2010)

looks similar to the geo units. technology is taking over everthing


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

A geo unit has a much higher energy factor but also costs 10 times more. These air source heat pumps are sort of a low cost stand-alone option. Obviously if the HO is already going to do a geothermal system the an air source unit would not make sense as they could tie into the geo unit for their DHW production.



soaponarope said:


> looks similar to the geo units. technology is taking over everthing


----------



## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

You can get the GE one cheaper at Barnett than you can at blowes. They are pretty neat and all but theres not a lot of room for profit in them and the ROI is better on solar and most tankless. Im sure they have their place though.


----------



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

What's the stock #?



ckoch407 said:


> You can get the GE one cheaper at Barnett than you can at blowes. They are pretty neat and all but theres not a lot of room for profit in them and the ROI is better on solar and most tankless. Im sure they have their place though.


----------



## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Protech said:


> What's the stock #?


Not sure as Ive never bought one myself. They have quoted me though. They are not in the catalog. But a sr. rep or mgr should know about them.


----------



## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

GE has called us twice to see if we had any calls asking about these and if we would be intrested in being a dealer.

We have not had any calls and I can't see any advantage as we were to stock the heaters @ $900 each and retail for about $1200. 

The disadvantage I see to the heaters is that you would be required to have an HVAC and/or EPA license to work on the heat pump portion.


----------



## ibeplumber (Sep 20, 2011)

anything new? We had the AO Smith High Efficiency Revolution Tour bus swing by our shop last night, and they claim that the Voltex is the most efficient thing on the bus. Anybody install one yet? or had to work on one? Thinking about getting one for our house to replace our L.P.40/40 :no:


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ibeplumber said:


> anything new? We had the AO Smith High Efficiency Revolution Tour bus swing by our shop last night, and they claim that the Voltex is the most efficient thing on the bus. Anybody install one yet? or had to work on one? Thinking about getting one for our house to replace our L.P.40/40 :no:


I'd go with the GE or Rheem if I were you...
As far north as you live you'll need the bigger resistance heaters most of the year....


----------

