# Drain cleaner.



## Dpeckplb

Good evening, we have been getting a lot more sewer and drain clog calls lately. So until now we have just used Pex with a black iron cap on it. Anyways after last week being outside in a snow storm in -30 weather I talked the boss into getting a machine.
We are looking for a handheld drill style that can handle 1 1/2-3". My last employer had a super vee which did a good job, I found. I am also considering the power vee due to the auto feed.
Just wondering what you guys might recommend.


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## SewerRat

Get a sectional that'll handle them all like they should be handled. The K-60 is renowned in that regard.

If you're a drum guy, you'll need more than a pistol machine to do a respectable job in 3". 

If PEX has been the tool of choice so far, your boss strikes me as a hack and he prolly won't wanna drop $2-4 grand on decent equipment.


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## matkg

Pex with a cap on it? How does that work? Like a sewer tape?


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## Hoosier Plumber

SewerRat said:


> Get a sectional that'll handle them all like they should be handled. The K-60 is renowned in that regard. If you're a drum guy, you'll need more than a pistol machine to do a respectable job in 3". If PEX has been the tool of choice so far, your boss strikes me as a hack and he prolly won't wanna drop $2-4 grand on decent equipment.


I wanted to say something similar but didn't believe I was reading it right. 

To do it right you have to have the right equipment.


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## Dpeckplb

matkg said:


> Pex with a cap on it? How does that work? Like a sewer tape?


Yes they work just like a sewer tape, we have one of those aswell. If we got a nasty clog then we rented a sewer machine as we dont get enough work to justify a big one, with the other drain cleaners. However the store that rents them had the machine come back broken, and they decided not to replace it. 
If we couldn't get the drain opened up before we would go to where the blockage was and replace the section of pipe. We are not hacks by anymeans, we are just a growing company who can now justify spending on better equipment.


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## matkg

I get that maybe you should check eBay and other forums I picked up a k60 for 675 bucks that way it hasn't let me down yet and its more than paid for itself


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## Hoosier Plumber

Dpeckplb said:


> Yes they work just like a sewer tape, we have one of those aswell. If we got a nasty clog then we rented a sewer machine as we dont get enough work to justify a big one, with the other drain cleaners. However the store that rents them had the machine come back broken, and they decided not to replace it. If we couldn't get the drain opened up before we would go to where the blockage was and replace the section of pipe. We are not hacks by anymeans, we are just a growing company who can now justify spending on better equipment.


If the company can swing it buy new. This way you have full warranties and little worry of failure due to masked problems or questionable usage practices. 

Depending on the budget you could get a main line and smaller. 

A Ridgid K-1500 sectional and a k-3800 with 3 drums for various sized cable would run 5000.00. If you're dropping that kind of money suppliers will make deals. 

A lot on here speak highly A.J. Coleman.


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## matkg

You could drop 5 grand if the company can afford it but a used machine like the k60 can run 5/8th and 7/8th cables that handles a lot even at a grand used 4 or 5 jobs and it's paid for then you can bank money for more equipment if it craps out who cares its already paid for


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## gear junkie

What's your typical access point and what kind of vehicles are you using?


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## Leach713

Dpeckplb said:


> Good evening, we have been getting a lot more sewer and drain clog calls lately. So until now we have just used Pex with a black iron cap on it. Anyways after last week being outside in a snow storm in -30 weather I talked the boss into getting a machine. We are looking for a handheld drill style that can handle 1 1/2-3". My last employer had a super vee which did a good job, I found. I am also considering the power vee due to the auto feed. Just wondering what you guys might recommend.


. 


Lol pex and black iron cap for a snake ????


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## Bigwrenchjosh

We have never bought new drain cleaning equipment. We watched the local pawn shops and craigslist and have several machines that have worked out fine. A used machine with repairs as needed is way better than a piece of pex or a drain king bag. Granted, you must understand that it is a used piece of equipment. But we have made repairs easily with OEM from the various manufacturers. Also, they do have a way of paying for themselves!


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## Dpeckplb

gear junkie said:


> What's your typical access point and what kind of vehicles are you using?


Typical access point is down stream of a clean out or we pull a stool. If it is a sewer leading to a septic tank we go from the tank upstream to the house. With smaller 11/2 and 2" we use a small manual cable then one of those expandable pipe cleaners that use hot water.
We drive those Grumman or utilamaster bread trucks. My truck is full and rides at the weight limit, which would require the machine to be left at the shop until needed.


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## gear junkie

Dpeckplb said:


> Typical access point is down stream of a clean out or we pull a stool. If it is a sewer leading to a septic tank we go from the tank upstream to the house. With smaller 11/2 and 2" we use a small manual cable then one of those expandable pipe cleaners that use hot water.
> We drive those Grumman or utilamaster bread trucks. My truck is f*ull and rides at the weight limit*, which would require the machine to be left at the shop until needed.


I would go with a K50 and also include a reel of C9 cable for soft stoppages up to 4" pipe. I used to keep a K39AF on the van but took it out cause it was utterly useless compared to the K50. This I would keep on the van. Then I'd buy the electric eel/drill setup for big mainlines. I drive a stepvan and aren't close to my limit and still have room in there and I only have a 10' body. Maybe you should look into organization as well?


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## Dpeckplb

gear junkie said:


> I would go with a K50 and also include a reel of C9 cable for soft stoppages up to 4" pipe. I used to keep a K39AF on the van but took it out cause it was utterly useless compared to the K50. This I would keep on the van. Then I'd buy the electric eel/drill setup for big mainlines. I drive a stepvan and aren't close to my limit and still have room in there and I only have a 10' body. *Maybe you should look into organization as well?*


I actually just reorganized my truck over Christmas. The reason it is at the limit is we are a 4 trade shop, so we have supplies for all 3 on the truck. I also have fully stocked for well and pump repairs.


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## Letterrip

Dpeckplb said:


> Typical access point is down stream of a clean out or we pull a stool. If it is a sewer leading to a septic tank we go from the tank upstream to the house. With smaller 11/2 and 2" we use a small manual cable then one of those expandable pipe cleaners that use hot water.
> We drive those Grumman or utilamaster bread trucks. My truck is full and rides at the weight limit, which would require the machine to be left at the shop until needed.


Be VERY cautious going upstream with ANY machine. It can run up a toilet stub and blow the side of the toilet out. I've had a K-60 jump across a double combo and run up a toilet stub.


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## Dpeckplb

Thanks for the heads up. I would always run a machine downstream.


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## Dpeckplb

This is how the truck stays.


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## gear junkie

Dpeckplb said:


> I actually just reorganized my truck over Christmas. The reason it is at the limit is we are a 4 trade shop, so we have supplies for all 3 on the truck. I also have fully stocked for well and pump repairs.


Holy crap man...yeah I guess that would be a good reason to have too much lol. Yeah try that k50. Works good and doesn't take up much space because it's modular. If you buy used, take a good look at the casting where the legs screw into the body. If it breaks there you should pass on it.

Good looking truck from what I can tell. I used wire shelf to save on weight and everything goes in rubbermaid containers.


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## Dpeckplb

I'll try to get better pics when I get it back. Most of the shelving was in there when I got it and to start gutting it would be big changes. I redid the front with aluminum shelving.


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## affordabledrain

Dpeckplb said:


> Yes they work just like a sewer tape, we have one of those aswell. If we got a nasty clog then we rented a sewer machine as we dont get enough work to justify a big one, with the other drain cleaners. However the store that rents them had the machine come back broken, and they decided not to replace it.
> If we couldn't get the drain opened up before we would _*go to where the blockage was and replace the section of pipe. We are not hacks by anymeans,*_ we are just a growing company who can now justify spending on better equipment.


 
sounds that way to me. Not saying you personally. Just your employer


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## theplungerman

Dpeckplb said:


> Good evening, we have been getting a lot more sewer and drain clog calls lately. So until now we have just used Pex with a black iron cap on it. Anyways after last week being outside in a snow storm in -30 weather I talked the boss into getting a machine.
> We are looking for a handheld drill style that can handle 1 1/2-3". My last employer had a super vee which did a good job, I found. I am also considering the power vee due to the auto feed.
> Just wondering what you guys might recommend.


If someone is looking for a good handheld drill type that can handle 1 1/2 - 3 inches.,,,,, he doesn't really know what he wants because he dosnt know what he needs. 
The minimum to do a tub blockage to roots in lateral is 2 machines. 
Gorlitz has a 11/16 for sewer laterals.
And another machine that holds 2 different drums of 1/4 and 3/8.
With feeder on main line and 2nd machine. Low to mid 3kish.


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## theplungerman

Dpeckplb said:


> ........ If we couldn't get the drain opened up before we would go to where the blockage was and replace the section of pipe. We are not hacks by anymeans, we are just a growing company who can now justify spending on better equipment.


We are not hacks by any means???? That is the definition of a hack. 
That's OK if you explain to the customer your a new Co and don't have funds for the kind of machine that is needed to clear the line,,, that you charge them the going rate for a clearing a blockage even though you are cutting it out.. Or the customer realizes they are paying more for a cut out because,,,,,,,,, 
Sorry if this sounds to harsh.


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## Dpeckplb

theplungerman said:


> We are not hacks by any means???? *That is the definition of a hack. *
> That's OK if you explain to the customer your a new Co and don't have funds for the kind of machine that is needed to clear the line,,, that you charge them the going rate for a clearing a blockage even though you are cutting it out.. Or the customer realizes they are paying more for a cut out because,,,,,,,,,
> Sorry if this sounds to harsh.


How is replacing a blocked piece of pipe being a hack. We are out front with them by saying that replacing a section of pipe would be there cheapest option. Two couplings and a 2 foor piece of pipe and done. That way also you have solid evidence on what was blocking the pipe so they can avoid discharging it in the future. 
About 95% of our backup calls are on 1 1/2" abs. Usually where it bellies between two hangers. Which is why we are looking for a smaller auger. If it is bellied than the "non hack" way is to properly repair the pipe. 
We are not a big service company but since I started there I have talked the boss into taking on more.


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## Unclog1776

Dpeckplb said:


> How is replacing a blocked piece of pipe being a hack. We are out front with them by saying that replacing a section of pipe would be there cheapest option. Two couplings and a 2 foor piece of pipe and done. That way also you have solid evidence on what was blocking the pipe so they can avoid discharging it in the future. About 95% of our backup calls are on 1 1/2" abs. Usually where it bellies between two hangers. Which is why we are looking for a smaller auger. If it is bellied than the "non hack" way is to properly repair the pipe. We are not a big service company but since I started there I have talked the boss into taking on more.


We had a guy on here a while ago who replaced urinals if they clogged


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## Drain Pro

Dpeckplb said:


> How is replacing a blocked piece of pipe being a hack. We are out front with them by saying that replacing a section of pipe would be there cheapest option. Two couplings and a 2 foor piece of pipe and done. That way also you have solid evidence on what was blocking the pipe so they can avoid discharging it in the future. About 95% of our backup calls are on 1 1/2" abs. Usually where it bellies between two hangers. Which is why we are looking for a smaller auger. If it is bellied than the "non hack" way is to properly repair the pipe. We are not a big service company but since I started there I have talked the boss into taking on more.


I'm sorry but I have to agree with the plungerman. Anyone who cuts out a piece of pipe to clear a stoppage because they don't have the proper drain cleaning equipment, should not be cleaning drains to begin with. Nothing personal, but hack all the way.


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## gear junkie

Sometimes its all you know. That's why we come on the forum to learn from each other. We're all here to improve.


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## affordabledrain

Dpeckplb said:


> How is replacing a blocked piece of pipe being a hack. We are out front with them by saying that replacing a section of pipe would be there cheapest option. Two couplings and a 2 foor piece of pipe and done. That way also you have solid evidence on what was blocking the pipe so they can avoid discharging it in the future.
> About 95% of our backup calls are on 1 1/2" abs. Usually where it bellies between two hangers. Which is why we are looking for a smaller auger. If it is bellied than the "non hack" way is to properly repair the pipe.
> We are not a big service company but since I started there I have talked the boss into taking on more.


 
Whats next. Replacing a complete sewer system, Because it has a small amount of roots in it?


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## Plumborg

If i can't unclog it with a hanger, **** it, I just repipe the whole house!!!


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## theplungerman

affordabledrain said:


> Whats next. Replacing a complete sewer system, Because it has a small amount of roots in it?


That's not next,, it's already here.


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## Dpeckplb

I guess this has been taken the wrong way by some. It is with in reason replacing pipe. I was on here to learn and ask what kind of a sewer machine would work best and what others use.


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## plbgbiz

Drain Pro said:


> ...Nothing personal, but hack all the way.


Well I guess put me in the hack camp.

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f23/got-roots-16206/


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## Best Darn Sewer

I had a line that couldn't jet or do anything with to clear due to a major belly. The house was 8 years old and the main trunk line went thru the concrete beams on a slab house. $9000 later after a tunnel job and a complete re-route of half the freakin sewer system, his line drained like a champ. 

Dpeck is right, the proper way to deal with a belly is to replace it. I usually cant convince a customer to spend the cash to tunnel and repair so I typically jet it. If I could than I would sell tunnel jobs all day.

Hell, if you are able to convince the customer to spend the money to properly repair it then more power to you. And roots enter into the line because it is broken. So again, the BEST job is to dig up and repair or replace. Unless he's holding a gun to their head they have a choice.

I would recommend a small gas powered jetter for your 2" drains. You can do your own research here to determine a brand but that's what I'd get to start with.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Before I knew better I plunged cleanouts to clear lines sometimes. I also started drain cleaning with sewer tapes.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Damn I want a subway...


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## rjbphd

plbgbiz said:


> Well I guess put me in the hack camp.
> 
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f23/got-roots-16206/


Read the whole thread and see many zoners havnt been here in awhile..


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## Leach713

affordabledrain said:


> Whats next. Replacing a complete sewer system, Because it has a small amount of roots in it?




Lmao Yes!
Ps JK
But 
That what all the big companies here do all the time


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## Leach713

Leach713 said:


> Lmao Yes! Ps JK But That what all the big companies here do all the time


Especially if you can't get it clear


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## Plumborg

Dpeckplb said:


> I guess this has been taken the wrong way by some. It is with in reason replacing pipe. I was on here to learn and ask what kind of a sewer machine would work best and what others use.


Sorry, please don't take it personally but you know plumbers are ball breakers.


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## affordabledrain

Dpeckplb said:


> I guess this has been taken the wrong way by some. It is with in reason replacing pipe. I was on here to learn and ask what kind of a sewer machine would work best and what others use.


 
Take Gears Advice. He is very very knowledgeable.

Also search the drill and eel set up. He mentioned. You will be amazed


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## Drain Pro

plbgbiz said:


> Well I guess put me in the hack camp. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f23/got-roots-16206/


 That's a different situation. You had professional equipment and made a decision that it would be better to dig. Now if you just dug up the line because you didn't have the right equipment to attempt to clear it, then yes, you too would be a hack.


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## Best Darn Sewer

I second that Gear Junkie's suggestion are helpful. The man knows his stuff. He has taught me some about equipment and jetting that I didn't know. He truly is a Gear Junkie.


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## gear junkie

Drain Pro said:


> That's a different situation. You had professional equipment and made a decision that it would be better to dig. Now if you just dug up the line because you didn't have the right equipment to attempt to clear it, then yes, you too would be a hack.


I don't think it is. from my chair, I could've cleaned that drained spotless. But Biz chose to replace the pipe. Point is we can all sit back and point fingers on what's wrong with others but we're not there to see the entire situation. Dpeck said 2' of pipe and 2 couplings.....what if it was the remaining 2' of galvy? None of us know really except the one in the situation.

Now Biz stop being a cheap hack and use some shielded couplings, lol.


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## theplungerman

Drain Pro said:


> That's a different situation. You had professional equipment and made a decision that it would be better to dig. Now if you just dug up the line because you didn't have the right equipment to attempt to clear it, then yes, you too would be a hack.


I agree. I feel as if biz was comparing apples to oranges. 
Sure we don't know exactly what is going on. But if a guy is looking for a handheld drill to clear all pipes up to 3inch so he can stop from his now method of cutting out the offending section is um,,, not pro customer. A little (I mean little) belly here and there isn't a big deal. Hopefully we make the right call most of the time,, sometimes we don't.


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## rjbphd

Okay okay,guys.. its hump day with geico.. go with the program


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## Best Darn Sewer

rjbphd said:


> Okay okay,guys.. its hump day with geico.. go with the program


You keep cracking me up with your random comments about the ads here. I guess I don't expect it is why its funny. I assume you're gonna make a comment or ask if a folding ruler was used to measure the sewer repair and nope, you comment about the ads. I guess that's what you see.


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## Dpeckplb

Ok from what everyone is saying and gear junkies recommendation I am looking now at a Ridgid k-50. How many of you run these?


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## matkg

I use my k50 often not as much as I used to since getting the k60 but the guys I work with use there's all the time try using the auger bit if you get one you can put a nice bend on it to get the rod headed in the right direction we have a lot of inch and a half look outs that are 12 inches long b4 they hit the San tee usually no problem making the drop


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## gear junkie

Here is my transition from machines for what's it's worth(not a lot)

Started with a company provided Spartan 1065 and personal Ridgid K40. Bought a K39AF and got rid of the K40. Then bought my K3800. After that I also picked up my own 1065. A little bit later I bought a K60.....well then I decided I didn't need the 1065 or K3800 and sold them both. Then a k50 came my way and after not using the K39AF for almost a year, I took the K39AF off the van. So now I only have a K50 and K60 in the van besides a couple jetters. 

I mentioned the C9 cable.....keep in mind it's for soft stoppages and NOT roots!


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## Dpeckplb

Ok, I am probably going to go with a k50 did yours come with cables? I would get the c-9. Boss said I'd be the only one to run them, no one else wants to. I don't care though, works work.


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## theplungerman

I may be wrong but I think there are less good drain cleaners for hire than good plumbers. 
When I say good, I mean knowing all the tricks. Not the easy slam dunk push the cable in clear but the head scratchers.


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## matkg

You'd probably be right I'm a plumber but I've been rodding sewers for a long time to a lot of plumbers I've seen around here are clueless when it comes to sewer work


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## gear junkie

Dpeckplb said:


> Ok, I am probably going to go with a k50 did yours come with cables? I would get the c-9. Boss said I'd be the only one to run them, no one else wants to. I don't care though, works work.


I bought the k60 first and got the 5/8 cable for that....used the same cable for the K50. The only reason I'm not recommending the k60 is you don't have much space and are willing to go back to the shop for a big machine. You're going to need the C-9 and C-8 kit. I don't use C9 cable since I use the K60 for bigger stuff. I'd only buy enough cable for inside the house....once you outside the house the stoppage is likely cause by roots in which case you don't want to tangle with that. 

For cutters I like the 1" and 1-1/2" clogchopper and the ridgid four bladed cutters in the same size. Also get some spiral saw blades. Have the boss man call AJ Coleman 773 728 2400. Ask for Kirk tell him Ben from Cali sent you and he get you what you need. 

Give the k50 a shot.....if you like it, explore the bigger machines.


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## Best Darn Sewer

gear junkie said:


> I bought the k60 first and got the 5/8 cable for that....used the same cable for the K50. The only reason I'm not recommending the k60 is you don't have much space and are willing to go back to the shop for a big machine. You're going to need the C-9 and C-8 kit. I don't use C9 cable since I use the K60 for bigger stuff. I'd only buy enough cable for inside the house....once you outside the house the stoppage is likely cause by roots in which case you don't want to tangle with that.
> 
> For cutters I like the 1" and 1-1/2" clogchopper and the ridgid four bladed cutters in the same size. Also get some spiral saw blades. Have the boss man call AJ Coleman 773 728 2400. Ask for Kirk tell him Ben from Cali sent you and he get you what you need.
> 
> Give the k50 a shot.....if you like it, explore the bigger machines.


I love the spiral blade. When you know how to use that it can destroy some roots.


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## sierra2000

If you give it a good effort and it's really difficult to clear, and its recurring every single year then it's time to replace that drain or the problem section, even if you do eventually get it open. I'll be a hack for that.


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## Leach713

How many times do any of you run the snake after the line is cleared??

1 times or 3 times back and forwards


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## rjbphd

Leach713 said:


> How many times do any of you run the snake after the line is cleared??
> 
> 1 times or 3 times back and forwards


 T and M or flatrate??


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## Unclog1776

Leach713 said:


> How many times do any of you run the snake after the line is cleared?? 1 times or 3 times back and forwards


Run a camera after the line is open and make a decision then


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## Leach713

Unclog1776 said:


> Run a camera after the line is open and make a decision then


We'll I want to know what the old timer did back when there was no cameraS


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## matkg

Do you charge for the camera inspection or is it in your price already?


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## Drain Pro

Leach713 said:


> We'll I want to know what the old timer did back when there was no cameraS


 I only camera the line if I have reason to believe it's damaged or something unusual. I rely on my feel and my experience in determining whether the line is clean or not. I run full sized blades wherever possible and flush the line while snaking. I run the line in forward and reverse. My call back rate is basically zero so I know I'm cleaning the line properly. Some back up again in a year, some years. It all depends on different factors such as rate of root growth, how much grease goes down the drains, abuse, etc.. Overall I feel I give my customers a good value for their money. They seem to be pretty happy as well because I get a lot of repeat business as well as referrals.


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## Leach713

So what a good pro tip?
I do run hot water if it a kitchen line while after And during snake on the pull back


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## Unclog1776

Drain Pro said:


> I only camera the line if I have reason to believe it's damaged or something unusual. I rely on my feel and my experience in determining whether the line is clean or not. I run full sized blades wherever possible and flush the line while snaking. I run the line in forward and reverse. My call back rate is basically zero so I know I'm cleaning the line properly. Some back up again in a year, some years. It all depends on different factors such as rate of root growth, how much grease goes down the drains, abuse, etc.. Overall I feel I give my customers a good value for their money. They seem to be pretty happy as well because I get a lot of repeat business as well as referrals.


I agree with you, any drain cleaner worth his salt can tell by feel if the line is damaged or clean. A customer seeing before and after is a priceless opportunity.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Hot water isn't really beneficial. It cools off pretty quick as it flows down the line. You want to run cold water so the grease will congeal and break off the inner walls and will float on down the line. I used to run hot water while cleaning also but after talking to some gurus on here I learned the error of my ways. Hot water will just cause the grease to liquefy and stick to the pipe further down.


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## Drain Pro

Unclog1776 said:


> I agree with you, any drain cleaner worth his salt can tell by feel if the line is damaged or clean. A customer seeing before and after is a priceless opportunity.


I agree with the before and after shots but I always charge for the camera. Most people would just rather pay for the sewer cleaning. If I could camera every line and get paid for it, I would.


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## Unclog1776

matkg said:


> Do you charge for the camera inspection or is it in your price already?


I don't charge for the camera in the form of a camera charge on an invoice. But I do have the overhead of the camera (lease payment if you have one, USB drives occasional expensive repair) figured into how I charge


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## Drain Pro

Unclog1776 said:


> I don't charge for the camera in the form of a camera charge on an invoice. But I do have the overhead of the camera (lease payment if you have one, USB drives occasional expensive repair) figured into how I charge


I'd really like to include a camera charge but it would prevent me from being competitive.


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## Unclog1776

Drain Pro said:


> I'd really like to include a camera charge but it would prevent me from being competitive.


To me it is what makes me competitive. It's only takes an extra 10-15 mins per job to use the camera. I charge slightly higher than most drain cleaners in my area with the exception of our local franchise rip offs but the service the customer receives is much better. We work off tarps and thoroughly clean up after each job. Customer gets to see the drain prior to any work and make a decision for themselves. No need to sell a job the camera does it for me


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## Leach713

Drain Pro said:


> I'd really like to include a camera charge but it would prevent me from being competitive.


We used to say we have a special on drain cleaning and camera inspection , it could be the approach you take to bring it up


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## Best Darn Sewer

Drain Pro said:


> I only camera the line if I have reason to believe it's damaged or something unusual. I rely on my feel and my experience in determining whether the line is clean or not. I run full sized blades wherever possible and flush the line while snaking. I run the line in forward and reverse. My call back rate is basically zero so I know I'm cleaning the line properly. Some back up again in a year, some years. It all depends on different factors such as rate of root growth, how much grease goes down the drains, abuse, etc.. Overall I feel I give my customers a good value for their money. They seem to be pretty happy as well because I get a lot of repeat business as well as referrals.


I've cleared a lot of lines and can tell a lot by the feel of the cable and what the blade pulls back but I still run my camera each time. I promote "no guess work" as a part of my pitch. If I strictly went on experience and feel I would be missing a lot of sales opportunities and I would be wrong about my assessment sometimes. Clearly your system is working for you and that's great. I just like to know definitively what's exactly going on in their line. I also run it up the line to see if there's a jetting opportunity from the kitchen/washer line. 

I will give a year warranty if I inspect the line and find no major issues like a break. Even with some root intrusion I have given a year warranty. 

I always invite the customer to watch while I run the camera so if there are no issues we can both see. What is the deciding factors for you to run your camera and why not run it each time? Just curious. I am not saying you should change your method.


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## Best Darn Sewer

I charge if they want a recorded copy of the camera inspection but no charge to just check it out after cleaning.


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## sierra2000

...


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## Leach713

We did the good better and best solutions


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## Drain Pro

Unclog1776 said:


> To me it is what makes me competitive. It's only takes an extra 10-15 mins per job to use the camera. I charge slightly higher than most drain cleaners in my area with the exception of our local franchise rip offs but the service the customer receives is much better. We work off tarps and thoroughly clean up after each job. Customer gets to see the drain prior to any work and make a decision for themselves. No need to sell a job the camera does it for me


I have a top of the line Ridgid camera system so I charge for it. 300 bucks for the 1st hour, 125 each additional. That's less than most of the other companies in my area. Problem is most people don't want to pay for the extra cost. There's a lot of competition around here, some guys as little as 50 bucks. You and I know that you get what you pay for, but unfortunately many in my customer base just don't see the value in paying more for better service. I too put down drop cloths, very neat, very thorough, honest, reliable. All that costs more. Once I get a new customer, I usually retain them. But it's hard to convince a price shopper over the phone to choose me even though I cost a little more. Not when all there concerned about is how much how much. That being said I refuse to lower my prices. I feel that I'm a bargain when you factor in the level of service that you receive.


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## Drain Pro

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I've cleared a lot of lines and can tell a lot by the feel of the cable and what the blade pulls back but I still run my camera each time. I promote "no guess work" as a part of my pitch. If I strictly went on experience and feel I would be missing a lot of sales opportunities and I would be wrong about my assessment sometimes. Clearly your system is working for you and that's great. I just like to know definitively what's exactly going on in their line. I also run it up the line to see if there's a jetting opportunity from the kitchen/washer line. I will give a year warranty if I inspect the line and find no major issues like a break. Even with some root intrusion I have given a year warranty. I always invite the customer to watch while I run the camera so if there are no issues we can both see. What is the deciding factors for you to run your camera and why not run it each time? Just curious. I am not saying you should change your method.


 Deciding factors for me would be whether or not I believe the line will clog again soon or if I can't clean it properly. If I can pass a full blade and I don't feel anything odd, then I can confidently say that the line will last. No need to drop an extra 300 bucks to see it on a monitor when I can see it through my hands. That being said, if my market allowed videos of every job, I would. It does set you apart from the competition and there is a certain "wow" factor with a camera. There's just so much competition around here, some of it cut throat. I have to take that into consideration when it comes to deciding how I operate.


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## Drain Pro

I'll give you guys an example. I solicit property managers all the time. Guys and Gals with anything from 5 to 50 buildings, some more. They want great service and a great price. There's no way I could cover the cost of video inspections in my prices and still be competitive enough to lure them away. They are very price conscious. Whenever they call me for the 1st time they always talk price. If you charge 5 bucks more than the next guy, some wont use you. It frustrates me greatly.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Drain Pro said:


> Deciding factors for me would be whether or not I believe the line will clog again soon or if I can't clean it properly. If I can pass a full blade and I don't feel anything odd, then I can confidently say that the line will last. No need to drop an extra 300 bucks to see it on a monitor when I can see it through my hands. That being said, if my market allowed videos of every job, I would. It does set you apart from the competition and there is a certain "wow" factor with a camera. There's just so much competition around here, some of it cut throat. I have to take that into consideration when it comes to deciding how I operate.


Makes sense for your area and for dealing with property managers. I would probably do the same in your situation. In my area free camera inspections w/ a line cleaning has become the norm and I avg a couple sewer repairs or replacements a week. I don't push replacing hard, though. Most of my customers love watching the video and will frequently tell me that the previous plumber wouldn't let them watch. I would say that the camera has sold more jobs than I ever have. 

I love the before and after vids I make when jetting. They help sell future jet jobs being most customers aren't familiar with jetting being most plumbers don't offer it.


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## Unclog1776

Drain Pro said:


> I have a top of the line Ridgid camera system so I charge for it. 300 bucks for the 1st hour, 125 each additional. That's less than most of the other companies in my area. Problem is most people don't want to pay for the extra cost. There's a lot of competition around here, some guys as little as 50 bucks. You and I know that you get what you pay for, but unfortunately many in my customer base just don't see the value in paying more for better service. I too put down drop cloths, very neat, very thorough, honest, reliable. All that costs more. Once I get a new customer, I usually retain them. But it's hard to convince a price shopper over the phone to choose me even though I cost a little more. Not when all there concerned about is how much how much. That being said I refuse to lower my prices. I feel that I'm a bargain when you factor in the level of service that you receive.


Mine wasn't cheap either. 14k

It's just another tool the way I use it


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## love2surf927

Unclog1776 said:


> Mine wasn't cheap either. 14k
> 
> It's just another tool the way I use it


14000!? That's insane how long will it take you to pay that off? If that's the price for a decent cam I may never get one at the rate I'm going.


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## Drain Pro

Unclog1776 said:


> Mine wasn't cheap either. 14k It's just another tool the way I use it


 I paid 12500 but easily should of paid more. I bought three complete systems so I really beat them up on the price. I took one, a friend took the other two. Took me 6 months to pay it off. Real solid investment.


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## love2surf927

Drain Pro said:


> I paid 12500 but easily should of paid more. I bought three complete systems so I really beat them up on the price. I took one, a friend took the other two. Took me 6 months to pay it off. Real solid investment.


Wow six months, I have nowhere near that kind of volume right now I do primarily plumbing but would like to start doing more drain work I have experience just can't come up with funds to get the equipment.


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## Drain Pro

love2surf927 said:


> Wow six months, I have nowhere near that kind of volume right now I do primarily plumbing but would like to start doing more drain work I have experience just can't come up with funds to get the equipment.


 It's really a fantastic camera. The locator is amazing as well. I actually have a locate 1st thing tomorrow.


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## love2surf927

Drain Pro said:


> It's really a fantastic camera. The locator is amazing as well. I actually have a locate 1st thing tomorrow.


Which camera is it?


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## Best Darn Sewer

The Ridgid camera is what I am saving now to buy before I open shop. The one I'm looking at runs about $8500. But that's not including the locater. Based on everyone I have spoken to here and researched the Ridgid Navitrack is the way to go for locaters. I have used one in the past and did like it. At my current company we use Rycom locaters and I have gotten very good at using them. The depth finder gets out of calibration frequently, though.


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## Drain Pro

love2surf927 said:


> Which camera is it?


 Ridgid seesnake plus 200' self leveling with CS1000 monitor and Navitrak 2. Ridgid sells the best cameras I've ever used, and I've used a few different brands.


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## Drain Pro

Best Darn Sewer said:


> The Ridgid camera is what I am saving now to buy before I open shop. The one I'm looking at runs about $8500. But that's not including the locater. Based on everyone I have spoken to here and researched the Ridgid Navitrack is the way to go for locaters. I have used one in the past and did like it. At my current company we use Rycom locaters and I have gotten very good at using them. The depth finder gets out of calibration frequently, though.


If your looking for something priced a bit lower than Ridgid I've heard good things about a company called Hathorn. My camera service guy swears by them. Who better to ask then a guy who repairs cameras for a living? He also told me Ridgid is hard to beat and to stay away from Spartan and Pearpoint.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Drain Pro said:


> Ridgid seesnake plus 200' self leveling with CS1000 monitor and Navitrak 2. Ridgid sells the best cameras I've ever used, and I've used a few different brands.


Ditto. The best clarity and ease of getting thru tough lines. I went from a spartan camera to a 200' see snake with the CS10 monitor and it was night and day with the difference.


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## plbgbiz

Leach713 said:


> We'll I want to know what the old timer did back when there was no cameraS


Three times.

1. Whip
2. Spiral.
3. Expanding C.
4. Shovel.


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## plbgbiz

Leach713 said:


> So what a good pro tip? I do run hot water if it a kitchen line while after And during snake on the pull back


Use cold water only.


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## Drain Pro

plbgbiz said:


> Use cold water only.


I filled a trailer jet up with hot water years ago. What a mistake that was!


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## Best Darn Sewer

sierra2000 said:


> ...


Wondering why I charge for a recorded copy and not to just run it? Or were your "..." intended for something else.


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## Unclog1776

love2surf927 said:


> 14000!? That's insane how long will it take you to pay that off? If that's the price for a decent cam I may never get one at the rate I'm going.


Just another tool in the arsenal. I priced out a crawler for our municipal work. Pan and tilt and capable of launching a second camera up 6" laterals. Price tag: $230,000


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## stecar

Chump change


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## Unclog1776

Been toying with the idea for about a year now. We subbed out nearly 100k worth of climate controlled in truck joystick operated televising last year. That's a big monthly payment, more that double my house


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## sierra2000

Best Darn Sewer said:


> Wondering why I charge for a recorded copy and not to just run it? Or were your "..." intended for something else.


something else I decided to take down. I pay for that pricing system and it makes me a lot of $$$, so I thought maybe I shouldn't give it away on here in case any nearby competitors are lurking on here but just don't post anything.


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## plbgbiz

Unclog1776 said:


> Been toying with the idea for about a year now. We subbed out nearly 100k worth of climate controlled in truck joystick operated televising last year. That's a big monthly payment, more that double my house


It would be reasonable to assume you would generate even more than that if you kept the sub jobs and marketed for more. Based on those numbers and if the budget would allow, I would be very tempted to write that check.


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## Best Darn Sewer

You, Sir, work on a whole other plane of the drain cleaning game. I knew that high end remote controlled cameras existed but I had no clue they ran that much. One day I would like to do just that: service municipalities. I am working towards being THE drain company for my area. Im sure you have some stories to tell.


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## Unclog1776

plbgbiz said:


> It would be reasonable to assume you would generate even more than that if you kept the sub jobs and marketed for more. Based on those numbers and if the budget would allow, I would be very tempted to write that check.


I've only been on my own 2 years now. Old man passed and I took the reins. Those numbers scare me lol


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## plbgbiz

Unclog1776 said:


> I've only been on my own 2 years now. Old man passed and I took the reins. Those numbers scare me lol


As well they should. That's real money no matter who you are. But based on numbers alone, the idea certainly has merit.


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## Unclog1776

plbgbiz said:


> As well they should. That's real money no matter who you are. But based on numbers alone, the idea certainly has merit.


Retirement in my book is running a televising truck with a helper to set up each job and I can sit behind the joystick all day. Maybe someday, I've gotta dig a 4 ft deep septic lid up in the morning.


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## Unclog1776

Best Darn Sewer said:


> You, Sir, work on a whole other plane of the drain cleaning game. I knew that high end remote controlled cameras existed but I had no clue they ran that much. One day I would like to do just that: service municipalities. I am working towards being THE drain company for my area. Im sure you have some stories to tell.


Not sure how to pm on here but drop me a line and we can chat. I'm no big time pro but cleaning sewers is all I have ever known. Took a 4 year break for the marine corp and even tried college after that on the gi bills dime, made it almost a full semester before I decided I was living the movie billy Madison and went back to the industry I knew.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Thank you and will do most definitely tomorrow. I am eager to learn more about my trade. Gotta get some sleep tonight, though.


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## tims007

at a certain company in Seattle all mainlines get camera and if something was found you would locate it and write it down but only on your copy of the invoice not the customers with a small diagram of the property and notes .. $175 for a mainline outside cleanout or in garage up to one hour of time ( attempt to clear) every hour after that is ***... would charge a $50 stair charge if im going up more than 5 stairs or into a basement yada yada yada .. camera free..... then if you see something realy bad you get the manager out there asap to sell a mainline .. every truck had a camera and locator and a 1065 .. mainline would be about a hour or less if you are good enough or access is good


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## Best Darn Sewer

sierra2000 said:


> something else I decided to take down. I pay for that pricing system and it makes me a lot of $$$, so I thought maybe I shouldn't give it away on here in case any nearby competitors are lurking on here but just don't post anything.


Hmm. Good point. I dont think about that stuff and should.


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## SewerRatz

Leach713 said:


> How many times do any of you run the snake after the line is cleared??
> 
> 1 times or 3 times back and forwards


We run a cable through at the least three times. Main sewers may get 4 to 5 passes. For example on main lines we start with the small blade (2" pair cutter or the eel spear head on the 12 inch long spring) then run through the 3" pair, and a 4" cutter, if the access allows for it then the 6" cutters.


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## KoleckeINC

SewerRatz said:


> We run a cable through at the least three times. Main sewers may get 4 to 5 passes. For example on main lines we start with the small blade (2" pair cutter or the eel spear head on the 12 inch long spring) then run through the 3" pair, and a 4" cutter, if the access allows for it then the 6" cutters.


 4 inch cutter goes in first for the k1500


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## HP plumber

Ok so I did it and bought the k 60 question? Can I turn the machine around and run the cable through backwards to spin cable in reverse if I'm stuck in a root ball or if it flips in the drain? Any input greatly appreciated.


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## gear junkie

Or you could just put the switch in reverse. Actually with the k60, reverse will self feed IN while forward will self feed OUT. Just remember, if it's not spinning it's not cutting and to always run water.


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## SewerRatz

KoleckeINC said:


> 4 inch cutter goes in first for the k1500


Around here running the 4" cutter first will lead to one of three results.

1) Cutter will dig a hole in the roots to the point it will no longer get a bite. Kind of like starting with a dulled large drill bit.

2) The cutter will get to large of a bite and get hung up in the roots.

3) It will take a very long time to cut through the whole root mass and may require pulling out often to clean off the cutter.


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## KoleckeINC

Were in Chicago, once in a while you get dinged and have to pull out to do a 3 but after that never had a problem doing an eel 6 and skip the 4. I also carry 150 ft of inner core eel cable with ridgid cutters. Custom


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## SewerRatz

KoleckeINC said:


> Were in Chicago, once in a while you get dinged and have to pull out to do a 3 but after that never had a problem doing an eel 6 and skip the 4. I also carry 150 ft of inner core eel cable with ridgid cutters. Custom


We started off in Chicago, worked from China Town all the way down to the far south east side. and went as far west as Western Springs. We then moved to Lombard. After a few long trips to the Eastside, my dad decided to just sub-contract those calls to buddies he has out that way.

As to what machines we have and ran and how long we been doing this. My father been at t his for 50+ years, myself I been at it officially 23+ years unofficially 30 years since I was 14. We have ran Spartan machines, Ridgid K-1500(1hp motors), K-500(2hp motor), K-1500 lowboy, ran Electric Eel Model C, General machines, O'Brian sled, Rothenbergers, National, and dozens more. With all the machines we have rodded with many different brands and styles of cables that would fit each machine along with a large variety of cutters for each style cable, including some that are one of a kind my father had Marv at AJ Coleman make up.

My father always gave a 2 year written guarantee on his drain cleanings, and he did so because he knew what a proper rodding is. He has done the large cutter right of the bat, and he learned you do not get all the roots out in one pass (this was before they even had camera systems). He learned from trail and error in the beginning for a line to stay open for 2 years or more, he had to do a proper job by making multiple passes. He also learned why work harder trying to force a 4" or larger cutter into a huge root mass. That it was best to think of it as drilling with a long flexible drill bit, and you want to make a starter hole and increase it in size till you get to the size you want.

I have rodded from a closet ell in a home with multiple turns out overall length of the sewer was 93'. Sent through the 2", 3" then the 4" cutters, decided to squeeze in a 6" cutter to do a thorough job at the 4x6 joint and sent it out the full length of the line. Took me one in half hours from pulling the water closet, to resetting the water closet.


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## Letterrip

gear junkie said:


> Or you could just put the switch in reverse. Actually with the k60, reverse will self feed IN while forward will self feed OUT. Just remember, if it's not spinning it's not cutting and to always run water.


Just be careful with reverse. The cable is more likely to snap if the head locks up when you are in reverse than when you are in forward. At least, that has been my experience.


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## HP plumber

Oh thanks letterip for saving me a major headache.


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## KoleckeINC

SewerRatz said:


> We started off in Chicago, worked from China Town all the way down to the far south east side. and went as far west as Western Springs. We then moved to Lombard. After a few long trips to the Eastside, my dad decided to just sub-contract those calls to buddies he has out that way. As to what machines we have and ran and how long we been doing this. My father been at t his for 50+ years, myself I been at it officially 23+ years unofficially 30 years since I was 14. We have ran Spartan machines, Ridgid K-1500(1hp motors), K-500(2hp motor), K-1500 lowboy, ran Electric Eel Model C, General machines, O'Brian sled, Rothenbergers, National, and dozens more. With all the machines we have rodded with many different brands and styles of cables that would fit each machine along with a large variety of cutters for each style cable, including some that are one of a kind my father had Marv at AJ Coleman make up. My father always gave a 2 year written guarantee on his drain cleanings, and he did so because he knew what a proper rodding is. He has done the large cutter right of the bat, and he learned you do not get all the roots out in one pass (this was before they even had camera systems). He learned from trail and error in the beginning for a line to stay open for 2 years or more, he had to do a proper job by making multiple passes. He also learned why work harder trying to force a 4" or larger cutter into a huge root mass. That it was best to think of it as drilling with a long flexible drill bit, and you want to make a starter hole and increase it in size till you get to the size you want. I have rodded from a closet ell in a home with multiple turns out overall length of the sewer was 93'. Sent through the 2", 3" then the 4" cutters, decided to squeeze in a 6" cutter to do a thorough job at the 4x6 joint and sent it out the full length of the line. Took me one in half hours from pulling the water closet, to resetting the water closet.


. Take a video, I'll bet you a beer your dreaming. An hour and a half


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## SewerRatz

KoleckeINC said:


> . Take a video, I'll bet you a beer your dreaming. An hour and a half


I been doing this kind of work since I was very young with my father, and he did this with his father. One thing I can tell you we bill for every minute we are on the job. So if I say it takes an hour and half it took that long. If it took an hour and forty five minutes then we'd bill for two hours.

Tell me do you or your company offer any kind of warranty? We guarantee our power roddings for two years. 

Remember cleaning a drain is not a race to see who can get done first. You have to let the rod do its job.


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## SewerRatz

*KoleckeINC, *I noticed you failed to post an intro. How long have you been doing drain cleaning and plumbing here in Illinois? How long have you had your Plumbing 058 license? How about your company's 055?

I already stated how long I been doing drain cleaning, I had my 058 license since 2001. We had our 055 license since 2003 The company was in business since 1959.


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## Leach713

SewerRatz said:


> I been doing this kind of work since I was very young with my father, and he did this with his father. One thing I can tell you we bill for every minute we are on the job. So if I say it takes an hour and half it took that long. If it took an hour and forty five minutes then we'd bill for two hours. Tell me do you or your company offer any kind of warranty? We guarantee our power roddings for two years. Remember cleaning a drain is not a race to see who can get done first. You have to let the rod do its job.


I second that but we didn't offer warranty I stayed a home trying to unstopped for 2 1/2 freaking Hours!!!!!!!
I first tried a spade bit then a root cutter , nothing
Until I finally called it a quits it was around 10pm 
I didn't wanted to leave that poor elderly lady with out a proper draining sewer , then she told me that a few months earlier one of dumbazz technician had done a sewer replacement so I knew that the ferncos had collapsed at the 45 
(I knew the kind of work the tech did piss poor)

What worst of it all it, it was my second day running service by my self 
Anyways I located the spot dug it the next day and repair it properly like it should of been done the first time.


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## KoleckeINC

One free rerod in 6 months if necessary. I get all tree roots with the collapsible cutter even from the 4". How clean are you guys? Hour and a half must look like Motoscooter was there. And don't forget about that beer friend. : ) yea I was licensed 3 years ago. I can teach the Chicago or state test. Been in the biz 16 years now. I have my own 055


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## TheDrainGuy

6" cutter through a 4" closet bend?
You are a better man than I !
I wouldn't even attempt it, disaster waiting to happen.


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## gear junkie

Can anyone post a video of all the roots being removed by snaking? I've never had luck removing 100% of roots by snaking.


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## SewerRatz

gear junkie said:


> Can anyone post a video of all the roots being removed by snaking? I've never had luck removing 100% of roots by snaking.


When I get my truck back I will make you a video


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## Will

I'm not doubting you with your warranty, I've got much respect for you Ron and your knowledge and skills. I just can't see standing behind a line that long with the stuff people throw into their lines these days and the low flow toilets. I usually do 3 passes on my roddings, but I have never offered a warranty. Do you advertise your warranty, and is a 2 year warranty common in your area? 

Can I ask why you settled on the 1065?


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## SewerRatz

Will said:


> I'm not doubting you with your warranty, I've got much respect for you Ron and your knowledge and skills. I just can't see standing behind a line that long with the stuff people throw into their lines these days and the low flow toilets. I usually do 3 passes on my roddings, but I have never offered a warranty. Do you advertise your warranty, and is a 2 year warranty common in your area?
> 
> Can I ask why you settled on the 1065?


We were the only company that offered a 2 year written guarantee. There was a few that offered a 1 year. Today there is a couple others offering 2 years . This was something my father started back in the very early 1970s. Our full size print ads had it all spelled out.

As for the 1065, it is one of many machines I have at my disposal. Sometimes I get bored and switch to a sectional machine, or to the Marco, Eel or Ridgid. I always end up coming back to the 1065 because it's the most reliable of all machines and tackles 98% of the blockages I run into. The 1 1/4 sectional or my jetter takes care of the other 2%.


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## gear junkie

Don't worry about the video Ron. Just got back from a job where I saw it for myself. Another company came in and pulled new sewer. Well the clay they tied to had some serious root intrusions. I used my root ripper at first and followed up with a 4" C cutter. Made maybe 3-4 passes with the eel cable and inspected afterwards. Ended up removing 99% of roots. I mean I could count the strands of roots left in the joint on one hand and none were big. Not as clean as a jetter but darn effective. I still gave the customer my 2 year warranty.


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## SewerRatz

I have seen videos of lines that was jetted with root rangers, warthogs, even the root rat, and most times there are stragglers of roots in various joints.


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## Unclog1776

I'll put the stragglers on the operator. We use our root rat at the same time as our camera and if you let it sit on the infested joint and really work will get everything


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## SewerRatz

Same goes for a cutter, if I set the cutter on the affected joint and work at it, it too will clear everything.

I am still in the camp that jetters are for sludge grease, sand and other types of blockages other than solid items like roots, straws, plastic wrap and such. Also around here with our outside temps, jetters tend to freeze up, which is a royal pain in the you know what. 

I like to see a jetter clear the floor sink I got this debris out of... oh wait they been having preventive jetting done by the grease trap company. I can tell you one thing the jetter did. It made for clean debris.


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## Best Darn Sewer

SewerRatz said:


> Same goes for a cutter, if I set the cutter on the affected joint and work at it, it too will clear everything.
> 
> I am still in the camp that jetters are for sludge grease, sand and other types of blockages other than solid items like roots, straws, plastic wrap and such. Also around here with our outside temps, jetters tend to freeze up, which is a royal pain in the you know what.
> 
> I like to see a jetter clear the floor sink I got this debris out of... oh wait they been having preventive jetting done by the grease trap company. I can tell you one thing the jetter did. It made for clean debris.


Wow! Do you know what type of jetter they were using? Our US Jetter removed about 50 to 60 pieces of silverware once from a Chuy's Mexican restaurant floor drain coming from the Hobart dishwasher. The line was 6" at the grease trap. At least 14 years with no jetting service. The jetter is the usual 18GPM 4K PSI. We ran it at 2K. Took 3 hours to get all the build up and all of the silverware.


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## Cuda

SewerRatz said:


> I have seen videos of lines that was jetted with root rangers, warthogs, even the root rat, and most times there are stragglers of roots in various joints.


Most times if there are stragglers, the off set joint is shielding the roots from the spray pattern.


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## SewerRatz

I seen them towing around a Harbin. That picture was just one pass with a small auger. Going back to run multiple retrievers through the line. Then flush the line out with a jetter once I get all the solids out.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Sounds like a bad operator of the jetter. You have to run a camera afterwards if you have one... and you should if you offer jetting service. Otherwise you are just guessing.


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## SewerRatz

I wouldn't put it past this company to go through the motions of jetting, and billing out for it.

I have seen them pump out 2000 gallon grease traps and dump most of it back in. Then drive across the street only to do the same at a different restaurant. That one truck went to three other restaurants on that block.

But I still say rodding for the debris, jetting for the grease.


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## gear junkie

Well here's another one. Had to clean a sewer line and the camera wont push through the roots at all. Going through a 3" c/o. Sent in a 3" c cutter with the dreel setup. Hit the roots, back and forth, I think I got the majority out. Go back in with the camera nada. Nothing got done. Cable even came back clean. But I opened the roots to get the root ranger in there which was the plan all along. 

Root ranger blast all the roots out and I discover it was a 4x6 transtion. Looks like they just put the 4" pipe inside the 6". Anyway the backward jet was able to cut the roots very well. I'm not springing for an expansion cutter since it costs almost the same as root ranger. I'll use the dreel to open the roots and get them out with the root ranger.


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## Best Darn Sewer

gear junkie said:


> Well here's another one. Had to clean a sewer line and the camera wont push through the roots at all. Going through a 3" c/o. Sent in a 3" c cutter with the dreel setup. Hit the roots, back and forth, I think I got the majority out. Go back in with the camera nada. Nothing got done. Cable even came back clean. But I opened the roots to get the root ranger in there which was the plan all along.
> 
> Root ranger blast all the roots out and I discover it was a 4x6 transtion. Looks like they just put the 4" pipe inside the 6". Anyway the backward jet was able to cut the roots very well. I'm not springing for an expansion cutter since it costs almost the same as root ranger. I'll use the dreel to open the roots and get them out with the root ranger.


Nice going. I can't wait to use my RR. I've got my guys digging up a line now that I may get an opportunity to jet with the RR. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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