# Water Heater Installation With Cpvc



## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Still pictures are coming.


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## smellslike$tome

Please tell me that you just found this somewhere and didn't install it.


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## Protech

Hey, quit following me around duck!

Seriously though, that's a catastrophe. Did you catch it before they popped?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Wowzers. thats sumb dumb shiot.


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## leak1

i think i saw a seminole plumbing sticker on that water heater!!!!


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Protech said:


> Hey, quit following me around duck!
> 
> Seriously though, that's a catastrophe. Did you catch it before they popped?


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## Protech

why sharkbites? Why is there still no support for the tank? Not bashing just curious.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Folks, I see this F99king shi* all the time with this piping. It's disturbing and the property owners look at it like branches on a tree, wondering if it's normal to have piping in this bad of shape. 

There's no workmanship in this pipe, it's impossible without bags of supports every 5" to keep it from looking like laundry string. 

Customer would not let me replace that thermal expansion tank that weights about 30 pounds hanging off those water lines. 


The great thing? 


I wrote in the warranty book of that new water heater, SEE PAGE 13. 

On there I wrote that the property owner refused to allow me to replace the defective PRV and EXP tank in this situation at time of the water heater replacement. 


I might not win any friends with doing that, but between the photo op, video, and the invoice along with the love letter on page 13...I believe I've CYA pretty well as my state does not enforce protection over 80. It did at one time but not anymore.

Once I saw this though I knew I was going to get mileage with the situation. Piss Poor Work.

And someone wants to knock me for using sharkbites? I'm not gluing none of this ****, ever. I'm not going to wait 2 hours, let alone a 24 hour cure time like the damn can says so for full cure. 


I don't care if you have 40 year joints out there that you put together in 4 minutes and turned 100psi on. I'm simply not going to put my name on this garbage. 


Someone on another forum mentioned the heavy metals that are in CPVC, along with how brittle this stuff gets on the hot side. Hard to find where the excuse of using this stuff because that's what everyone else is bidding at makes logical sense.

I'm not in that boat, never will be. 

Some things are just the reason why plumbers are suffering right now in new construction, especially with this kind of piping that looks like a 3rd grader put it in. Pathetic. 

And why are new construction plumbers out of a job right now and I'm fixing their mistakes? Here's the proof, plain and simple. Got every tom dick and harry putting this stuff in because it's too easy to buy sticks of pipe and glue away! Glue away! Plumber's get no pay! I get the final say! :laughing:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Protech said:


> why sharkbites? Why is there still no support for the tank? Not bashing just curious.


 
Read below, and I'm not touching that defective expansion tank. Got nothing to support but one joist and that panning isn't going to support a clamp.

It's the attitude of "someone else's mess" and I get the money and run.

Same attitude as the first guy. LOL! It's effing contagious I guess. :blink:

From the looks of this garbage, my sharkbites trump the entire piping system for longevity, and they're brass!


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## Protech

hard to argue with ya duck


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

The DWV system looks great, water lines? You be the judge of what's wrong in this picture. 14 years ago these problems didn't exist.


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## Protech

Is it just me or do I see joints glued with clear PVC glue and no primer?


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## Protech

on the cpvc that is


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## Protech

Actually, I don't see any primer on the pvc dwv but at least it's the right glue


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Protech said:


> on the cpvc that is


 

LOL! Who knows at this point. 


I do know that a handyman attempted, and succeeded at replacing the water line on the hot side. No leaks! 

A few weeks ago it broke loose and flooded the basement. 

Redwood will chime in her shortly about a discussion him and I had about the overpressure that caused that tank to damn near explode. 


Possibly hydrant flushing with the PRV holding the pressure in the home, destroyed the expansion tank and the T&P wouldn't open up.


And would you believe.....the T&P was recently replaced on that old heater before I came to replace it. Thus the reason for the drain extension at the bottom.


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## bones

I have never seen taps as crooked as the ones on
the original heater. Even the anode tap looks way off.


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## Protech

I noticed that too. What the deal duck?


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## user823

Something is terribly wrong with this picture. They have high pressure and they wouldn't replace the prv so they still have high pressure? The expansion tank is going to fall and flood the basement. Sharkbites? Sorry but I wouldn't have touched that one for any amount of money unless they brought it ALL up to code. Duck you're the last one to touch it, doesn't matter what you wrote in the book or your invoice, you're still responsible for what's coming, ouch. It's one thing not to guarantee work but it's another to leave a mess like that. Next time just walk away if they don't want to fix it correctly.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Protech said:


> I noticed that too. What the deal duck?


 
What Redwood and I think is there was a hydrant cleaning one day, or a fire in the neighborhood, and no one was home.

Given there is a PRV on that main line, The water pressure climbed significantly in the house to extreme pressures *like 300 pounds* and given the fact that the T&P didn't open, the tank basically started expanding big time, even through the water lines in the house since CPVC allows for that given the nature of the piping. The PRV acted like a check valve and captured the pressure and wouldn't let it return to the main line...

and possibly the heater fired and did a maintenance cycle either while the property owner was gone/at work or this all unfolded while they was asleep. Who knows.


But the pressure built to extreme pressures and the only reason it didn't explode is the flue chase tieing it all together up top in the center. Gotta remember these tanks aren't thick in steel either. So envision an alumimum can in a freezer. You get the picture.

I've come across this more than once in my day, and that's most likely the scenario that unfolded. It couldn't really be anything else since we all know that water heater didn't come with those connections at the top of the heater bent inward. It would of never been used/installed.


My beef is that water line install that I see too much in new homes where this stuff is so cheap and what do you expect when the labor is cheap, the material is cheap, the idea is to slam it in and go to the next. 

And then I come in as the cleanup machine making a killing off of all of it. It's good for the bank account, but another bad shiner for the trade as a whole, and it's always going to be this way given the way we install and provide these things as the finished product and our names are stamped all over it.

Can't knock the homeowner that can easily, easily put up a better job than this.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

ironranger said:


> Something is terribly wrong with this picture. They have high pressure and they wouldn't replace the prv so they still have high pressure? The expansion tank is going to fall and flood the basement. Sharkbites? Sorry but I wouldn't have touched that one for any amount of money unless they brought it ALL up to code. Duck you're the last one to touch it, doesn't matter what you wrote in the book or your invoice, you're still responsible for what's coming, ouch. It's one thing not to guarantee work but it's another to leave a mess like that. Next time just walk away if they don't want to fix it correctly.


 

Read my post directly above explaining to protech. 

The best thing to ask is, 


Where do you start when it's all junk. 

I don't care if the tank falls out and the piping to; It's all documented and photographed knowing what I was dealing with. 

Static line pressure at this home at night probably reaches at least 100psi. PRV is blown so if anyone can provide statistical data that it's still working as a check valve, I'd like to know.

Given the T&P is brand new, it will pop open and run if it nears 150 which is what I want it to do so I can get in there and rework all that piping, replace those two components and get that pressure down to 60 psi like where it belongs.

And I certainly do not install the expansion tank before the shutoff. It's always between the shutoff and the top of the tank. 

I'll defend those sharkbites because given the **** they are connecting, sharkbites aren't going to wilt like lettuce like that entire piping system is doing.


The "two" things that are defective aren't enforced by any code......so I'm not obligated to replace them as I replaced a water heater, not two components that "should" be replaced. 

It's a relaxed code....and no insurance company will beat me down on something I never touched. That's a fact. Besides...I am as reasonable as the next fellow, especially the majority of plumbers that never walk into the house with even a damn pressure gauge to know it's high water pressure. King me


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## leak1

i agree with duck & redwood ,ive seen this happen several times.


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## Protech

I would think the hot side cpvc would have burst before the tank started to deform.


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## Redwood

That water heater saw some serious pressure way beyond 150 psi.
The rating on the water heater is a maximum working pressure of 150 psi.
I don't know the testing spec but I would bet the design in destructive tests would probably be double that at 300 psi.
If you recall that myth-busters video theirs launched at around 325 psi.

This water heater was about a pound or 2 away from liftoff at one time or another in its life. How it happened I don't know but it is way more than a faulty prv allowing 100 psi city pressure through and a bad expansion tank would do.

I suspect a faulty T&P and perhaps a t-stat hang happened at some point. definitely a T&P though.

Sharkbites?
Looks like a good way to join copper an pvc to me...


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## Redwood

Protech said:


> I would think the hot side cpvc would have burst before the tank started to deform.


There is no doubt the tank is deformed!
The flue in the center was holding the top and bottom together and that is why the nipples are angled toward the flue.
The top was bulging between the side of the tank and the center flue.
If the nipples were located close to the outside wall of the tank they would have pointed outward.

A few pounds more and the crew of the space shuttle STS-125 up there servicing hubble would be wondering what the hell that was that just flew by.:laughing:


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## Cal

NOT a fan of sharkbite ,,, but in that situation ,,, yeah ,I'd use 'em . Watch your ass on`this one ,,,,,Even though you got all the documentation ,,, they will eventually try to blame you for the next disaster .

Cal


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## user823

It doesn't matter what's been documented or what you don't warranty. You KNOW there is a high pressure problem there and you did the job anyway. Sharkbites are a last resort for professional plumbers. I glue cpvc all the time, never had a problem. Why not just run copper back to a glue joint? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I just installed a new water heater with sharkbites with extreme water pressure, no way. It's a disaster waiting to happen.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

ironranger said:


> It doesn't matter what's been documented or what you don't warranty. You KNOW there is a high pressure problem there and you did the job anyway. Sharkbites are a last resort for professional plumbers. I glue cpvc all the time, never had a problem. Why not just run copper back to a glue joint? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I just installed a new water heater with sharkbites with extreme water pressure, no way. It's a disaster waiting to happen.


 

When the water heater passes inspection, then what are you going to say? Sharkbites are code IPC/UPC approved. 

And you I guess never install john guest fittings on RO's, Undersink Filters? Paweeeze. 

How many years do you think that tank has been hanging like that, along with all the others done the exact same way? 


Should I become the plumbing police in my town, save every sagging CPVC piping install and roo da waorld?


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## user823

Do whatever you want Duck, it's your business. I just find it funny you knock pex and then go around installing sharkbites! LOL


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## user823

Roast Duck said:


> When the water heater passes inspection, then what are you going to say? Sharkbites are code IPC/UPC approved.
> 
> And you I guess never install john guest fittings on RO's, Undersink Filters? Paweeeze.
> 
> How many years do you think that tank has been hanging like that, along with all the others done the exact same way?
> 
> 
> Should I become the plumbing police in my town, save every sagging CPVC piping install and roo da waorld?



You knowingly installed the water heater knowing damn well there was a high water pressure problem, possibly life threatening, you did it anyway. I don't care what your code book says or if it's going to pass inspection, it's wrong. I do carry a couple of sharkbites on the van, I've used one under a house over a year ago, that's it. I would never use them to install a water heater like you did. There is only one reason for doing so and you know what that is.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

ironranger said:


> Do whatever you want Duck, it's your business. I just find it funny you knock pex and then go around installing sharkbites! LOL


 
Only in transition to cpvc.


Not bad eh...


I'm heading to that sharkbite thread to see who inked their acceptance on those and I'm going to see who you point out does the same. 


Guess what Ironranger? Put on that steel hat because here's the beauty of a disabled edit button:

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f22/shark-bites-2760/

Gottem on the truck eh? 


Magic #5


Oh and http://www.plumbingzone.com/f22/cast-iron-stack-3393/

Comon man, comon. :laughing: 

I'm beating you down with your own words. You're making this too easy at this point. 


I'm stopping for the night in respect to this forum board, Ron, and the site owner. 

Take full swings at me and I'll dig more for your treasured treats. 


Roast "has food in front of him" Duck :thumbup:


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## user823

What the hell does that have to do with anything? I didn't see you chime in on the CI topic? What size is it Duck, who makes it, you don't know do you? You are so reaching now, trying to dig up anything you can. Man, that is so childish. Yes you better quit before you make yourself look silly. You won't find anything Duck. Do you know why? It's because I'm a professional and never in a million years would I do the type of installs you have shown, NEVER!


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

:blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:


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## Ron

Roast Duck and Ironranger you both need to take a break from each other, and stop all the mud slinging.


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