# which tankless? that one or this one.



## boatcaptplumber (Jan 27, 2012)

My company currently installs rheem tankless heaters but will install the occasional navien. I was certified a few years ago to install Rinnai , installed about 30 of them. however we dont do them anymore b/c no one gets the "kickback" on Rinnais from the dealer. 
Im looking at putting a tankless gas in my house cause we currently have an electric water heater that is on its way out. I always felt Rinnai makes a fine product and feel the other manufacturers that use pvc instead of the cat 3 concentric piping are asking for issues in the future, much like navien recently had. I would have to run 20ft of the cat 3 pipe too. Also need to recirculate cause i live in a long ranch and getting tired of hearing how long it takes to get hot water to any faucet, and a tankless tends to add to that time......what are your thoughts on tankless heaters? thank you.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I think they have their place in the trash in most applications.


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## boatcaptplumber (Jan 27, 2012)

that good huh.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Since you are the owner upkeep will not cost you much as long as you can get to your own stuff. I think the Rinnai units are just fine. If you are set on getting one hook up the recirc pump back to the heater and wire it to a light switch and turn it on until you get it in the far bath and then turn it off. Or you can do it the manufacturers way, with a small electric water heater and the recirc on its own loop, blah, blah, blah. It will run the cost up.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I like the Navien units. I can get a Navien with a buffer tank and a recirc pump for the same price as a Rheem. We have installed a couple dozen and have had no problems. I like the Rinnai's, we started installing more of the Naviens simply because they veny with pvc. My cost on the Rinnai vent system averages out to about 16 bucks a foot. That adds alot of cost compared to the Navien which vents with pvc.


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## boatcaptplumber (Jan 27, 2012)

that is the only reason why a navien seems appealing is the ability to recirculate when the other brands such as rinnai u need a separate 6 gallon electric heater, we had to do that in my bosses house. at this point you should almost put a tank type heater back in after your done with all this ignorance. i appreciate all the opinion s


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

boatcaptplumber said:


> that is the only reason why a navien seems appealing is the ability to recirculate when the other brands such as rinnai u need a separate 6 gallon electric heater, we had to do that in my bosses house. at this point you should almost put a tank type heater back in after your done with all this ignorance. i appreciate all the opinion s



I think I might look into Takagi before buying a Navien.


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## CPT (Aug 13, 2012)

I put alot of tankless in and I like the Rinnai the best. However if I was replacing an electric water heater I would use the GE Geospring Hybrid. They work well and cost little to operate. You should recoup the additional cost in 3 years over a regular electric tank. That is one third the time it takes to recoup the cost of a tankless.


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## Paton plumbing (Jan 3, 2012)

I installed some takagis a few years ago and they worked fine but the Rhanai is a good tank and they had some issues with the plastic elbow inside off the flow control wearing out but have local stock on upgrade parts and the buffer tank is nice even if you recirc internally and not throughout the house you don't get the cold water sandwich , the concentric vent is way less flexible for going up through a roof and you need the verticle adapter


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I really like Noritz, then I would go Rinnai, then Takagi heaters for residential. For commercial applications Noritz then Takagi, then Rinnai. 

I will never sell Navien, I have replaced more Navien units that people where very dissatisfied with than a little bit.


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## Paton plumbing (Jan 3, 2012)

SewerRatz said:


> I really like Noritz, then I would go Rinnai, then Takagi heaters for residential. For commercial applications Noritz then Takagi, then Rinnai.
> 
> I will never sell Navien, I have replaced more Navien units that people where very dissatisfied with than a little bit.


Just wondering what people are unhappy with when you replace a navies , everyone is free to buy all different units but have these been installed correctly and set up with the dip switches . Also we're any of these the a model with the buffer tank or the model without . In the greater Vancouver area takagi isn't handled at any suppliers and no ritz is new in Canada . Also do the new Rhanai heaters use PVC exhaust or is that just a kit you can buy to convert the concentric into a 2 pipe system.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Paton plumbing said:


> Just wondering what people are unhappy with when you replace a navies , everyone is free to buy all different units but have these been installed correctly and set up with the dip switches . Also we're any of these the a model with the buffer tank or the model without . In the greater Vancouver area takagi isn't handled at any suppliers and no ritz is new in Canada . Also do the new Rhanai heaters use PVC exhaust or is that just a kit you can buy to convert the concentric into a 2 pipe system.


The people that did not like the Navien units where complaining of severe temperature fluctuations, units failing, poor technical support all these units where the ones with the buffer tank.

Takagi makes a good commercial unit if you can get your hands on them. I really like the T-M50 which is basically two tankless heaters in one case. Where you would normally install 6 of the other brands, you need to only install 3 of these.

I never seen a kit to convert the concentric piping to vent in a 2 pipe pvc system for the Rinnai. I never had an issue running the concentric vent and it is not all that costly.


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

Heard about the new Navien?
http://www.tanklessmadesimple.com/

Found this on you tube
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=va7VvXAn5fU

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=b2S_7VwkgJc


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## boatcaptplumber (Jan 27, 2012)

i called rinnai the other day and specifically asked they why they don't have the option to use pvc venting like what so many other manufactures use, they simply say they feel there concentric cat 3 piping is easier and more sturdy to work with and have no plans on releasing a unit that allows the use of PVC piping. I don't know if this is genius on rinnais part or not very smart. I personally like it because not just anyone can do it, ever thou its rather expensive. anything that will distract the home depot diy'er is ok with me.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

boatcaptplumber said:


> i called rinnai the other day and specifically asked they why they don't have the option to use pvc venting like what so many other manufactures use, they simply say they feel there concentric cat 3 piping is easier and more sturdy to work with and have no plans on releasing a unit that allows the use of PVC piping. I don't know if this is genius on rinnais part or not very smart. I personally like it because not just anyone can do it, ever thou its rather expensive. anything that will distract the home depot diy'er is ok with me.


Concentric for me is aces in many applications. No worries about combustion air.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The other day someone wanted an estimate to install his customer supplied Takagi, natural gas. He had a tank-type nat. gas W/H with type B vent. Takagi requires the category 3 stainless steel vent. When I told him he needed to re-do the vent and re-size the under-sized gas line, he held off and said he'll call me back.

Takagi states that type B vent will damage their heater and could release carbon monoxide.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> The other day someone wanted an estimate to install his customer supplied Takagi, natural gas. He had a tank-type nat. gas W/H with type B vent. Takagi requires the category 3 stainless steel vent. When I told him he needed to re-do the vent and re-size the under-sized gas line, he held off and said he'll call me back.
> 
> Takagi states that type B vent will damage their heater and could release carbon monoxide.


The condensate will eat the vent to pieces in no time.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> The condensate will eat the vent to pieces in no time.


Gettinit is sharp

He has a lot of good info.....:thumbsup:


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

TallCoolOne said:


> Gettinit is sharp
> 
> He has a lot of good info.....:thumbsup:


I used to be naive. I worked for real hard cases that left me to hang. I either did my homework and stayed until I finished or (in my mind) I would be fired. I do not handle losing well.


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