# Picote High Speed Cleaning and Cutting Tools



## jrsaltz

Hey everyone! Its been a LONG time, too long. 

I wanted to jump back in the mix and say hello to some familiar people and introduce myself to the newbies here too. I used to be very active on a few of these forums and then tapered off after i sold my sewer company some time ago. 

I went to work for LMK Technologies who is a trenchless lining supply company who i used to install for when i had my business. I was asked to join their sales team and manage their plumber/drain cleaner market for them which i did for a little over 2 years. In that time i was introduced to Picote Solutions and their line of amazing tools for our industry. They were keeping them a secret there in Finland. Long story short - i now work for them as their Worldwide Technical Director and i am now based in Hartwell, Ga. 

I have seen some buzz about the Picote tools here and elsewhere and thought id give you the chance to ask me some questions. As many of you know, i have some real experience with drain cleaning, plumbing and pipe lining. I also worked for Spartan Tool for a short time. (Man i am still in love with the 1065) 

Anyway, Picote offers some seriously awesome drain cleaning tools and they are changing the way many people approach cleaning pipe. Trust me, I was VERY skeptical at first and was for some time after until i really got my hands on this stuff away from a controlled demo environment. Some of you have these tools and you know what i mean. 

OK, enough already, ask away and i will do my best to get answers, pics, videos or whatever else you are wondering about.


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## Cuda

Hey Jake!
Send me a price list if you can to [email protected]
I would really just be interested in 75 feet of cable and the reinstatement cutter selection oh and also one of those mean lookin snake heads for 4" made of chain?
Thanks Jake!


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## jrsaltz

Bryce, I cant get you pricing as Picote doesn't sell direct. You would need to buy from one of our three re-sellers. LMK sells our stuff so id suggest them. They can get you a quote. Tell your sales guy to call me and ill explain what you need if it helps. 

BTW - our CEO lives in Sammamish!


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## bulldozer

You have to get the chain cuda! My picote moved in to the house with me! I had her in the garage with my special no employee touches them tools but she has been making me money so the leather sofa had to go. She has her own tv and a cozy fireplace when shes not hard at work. I Think the finns beat us on this one as i said before its one of the best money making tools on the market.


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## Cuda

I heard that Hammerhead was a dealer also is that right? I ask because Ditch Witch Hammerhead is right down the street.


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## gear junkie

bulldozer said:


> You have to get the chain cuda! My picote moved in to the house with me! I had her in the garage with my special no employee touches them tools but she has been making me money so the leather sofa had to go. She has her own tv and a cozy fireplace when shes not hard at work. I Think the finns beat us on this one as i said before its one of the best money making tools on the market.


Which chain cutter? the cyclone?


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## jrsaltz

Our Re-sellers are HammerHead, LMK Technologies and Perma-Liner Industries. 

Here's the scoop on the chains - The Original chain is what you want to start with. It is more aggressive and will remove most of what you want gone. If you need to a pilot bit can be attached to the front as well to burrow its way into a blockage. 

The Cyclone chain is a finishing chain normally, however i do have guys using it to start with. It will refinish the inside of cast iron back to bare metal and clean any straggler roots left hanging. They spin with so much force they basically float in the pipe. Its INSANE! these things are my favorite cleaning tool ever! 

If it were me id have both 2" through 6" and run them off the high speed milling machine. 2" does require a smaller cable though.


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## bulldozer

I got mine from hammerhead. Hes not kidding about cleaning the pipe back to new. The first time i used it was on a liner job at a college and it was heavily scaled cast. Almost no flow. We pulled out almost a five gallon bucket of scale dust out of the line. The nice thing is you can run your camera right behind it while your scaling. Ive been marketing de-scaling jobs for the last 2 months and it has been a great success. Sometimes we dont even line.


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## gear junkie

jrsaltz said:


> Our Re-sellers are HammerHead, LMK Technologies and Perma-Liner Industries.
> 
> Here's the scoop on the chains - The Original chain is what you want to start with. It is more aggressive and will remove most of what you want gone. If you need to a pilot bit can be attached to the front as well to burrow its way into a blockage.
> 
> The Cyclone chain is a finishing chain normally, however i do have guys using it to start with. It will refinish the inside of cast iron back to bare metal and clean any straggler roots left hanging. They spin with so much force they basically float in the pipe. Its INSANE! these things are my favorite cleaning tool ever!
> 
> If it were me id have both 2" through 6" and run them off the high speed milling machine. 2" does require a smaller cable though.


If the cyclone is that much better then why use the original? Any advantage?

My biggest concern with descaling is coming out the pipe. Is this a legit concern?

Can the cyclone be used to cut liners out of clay pipe?


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## Plumber

nvm---i found the videos that aren't very explanatory


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## Cuda

Here is a link to the hammerhead online store just look at the Picote Section
HydraLiner Lining Systems by Hammerhead


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## bulldozer

I use the cyclone on everything. But im kind of lazy. No really i havent used the original at all so i cant answer. As for coming out of the cast i havent had one problem. Possible? Dont think so. Could happen? Dont want to know. I will say this.my buddy jetted for 2 hrs with his mongoose jetter. He had it pretty clean to what we are used to. After i made 1 pass on the picote the pipe didnt even needed lined.


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## 1manshow

bulldozer said:


> I use the cyclone on everything. But im kind of lazy. No really i havent used the original at all so i cant answer. As for coming out of the cast i havent had one problem. Possible? Dont think so. Could happen? Dont want to know. I will say this.my buddy jetted for 2 hrs with his mongoose jetter. He had it pretty clean to what we are used to. After i made 1 pass on the picote the pipe didnt even needed lined.


I had a rep from lmk send me over pricing . HOLY SMOKES , BETTER START SAVING NOW BOYS BECAUSE THIS STUFF AINT CHEAP ! The large milling machine has a distance of 110' and the others are approx half the distance . what machine / set up do you have dozer ?


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## Cuda

bulldozer said:


> You have to get the chain cuda! My picote moved in to the house with me! I had her in the garage with my special no employee touches them tools but she has been making me money so the leather sofa had to go. She has her own tv and a cozy fireplace when shes not hard at work. I Think the finns beat us on this one as i said before its one of the best money making tools on the market.


That's funny! On Valentines I took my new 6k sondes out to dinner lol


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## plungerboy

Whats your booth number at the WETT Show


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## titaniumplumbr

jrsaltz said:


> Hey everyone! Its been a LONG time, too long. I wanted to jump back in the mix and say hello to some familiar people and introduce myself to the newbies here too. I used to be very active on a few of these forums and then tapered off after i sold my sewer company some time ago. I went to work for LMK Technologies who is a trenchless lining supply company who i used to install for when i had my business. I was asked to join their sales team and manage their plumber/drain cleaner market for them which i did for a little over 2 years. In that time i was introduced to Picote Solutions and their line of amazing tools for our industry. They were keeping them a secret there in Finland. Long story short - i now work for them as their Worldwide Technical Director and i am now based in Hartwell, Ga. I have seen some buzz about the Picote tools here and elsewhere and thought id give you the chance to ask me some questions. As many of you know, i have some real experience with drain cleaning, plumbing and pipe lining. I also worked for Spartan Tool for a short time. (Man i am still in love with the 1065) Anyway, Picote offers some seriously awesome drain cleaning tools and they are changing the way many people approach cleaning pipe. Trust me, I was VERY skeptical at first and was for some time after until i really got my hands on this stuff away from a controlled demo environment. Some of you have these tools and you know what i mean. OK, enough already, ask away and i will do my best to get answers, pics, videos or whatever else you are wondering about.


 Is this the Jake I know? He recently visited me here in Jacksonville


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## bulldozer

I got the maxi miller. No there not cheap but you get what you pay for. I can descale roughly 100 ft. In 20-25 minutes. Customer is looking at a total floor break out. I go in, im the hero and get a hero price.its all irrelevant. I just did a home show in cleveland and i sold about 21" de-scaling jobs". I had people who were ready to take the plunge and start breaking. Now i have customer for life. I will place the bet that it pays for itself in 2 months. Mine already has. Not to mention you can sewer clean, and re-instate liners, as well as grind out failed liners.


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## jrsaltz

gear junkie said:


> If the cyclone is that much better then why use the original? Any advantage?
> 
> My biggest concern with descaling is coming out the pipe. Is this a legit concern?
> 
> Can the cyclone be used to cut liners out of clay pipe?


Ben - In the case where there is heavy build up you need to start with a smaller swing on the chains. The cyclone goes straight to open and begins more of a milling effect burrowing straight into the blockage. 

If you start with the Original chain it will move to the center where the pipe is most open and shred its way to the inside wall of the pipe. Then if there is still some fine tuning needed the Cyclone will give you a smooth bore finish.


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## titaniumplumbr

We bought the large milling machine and just successfully clean 20 stacks on a 12 story building the chains work great


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## bulldozer

I cant believe how expensive those sondes are. But there a necesary evil. I remember when hammerhead shipped my pipe burster. I went down and picked it up and forgot to put the tailgate up. Roads where icy and off she came. It was like an american sniper moment dodging cars on the freeway dragging it to the side of the road. I was even more pissed i couldnt yell at one of my guys for it.


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## jrsaltz

1manshow said:


> I had a rep from lmk send me over pricing . HOLY SMOKES , BETTER START SAVING NOW BOYS BECAUSE THIS STUFF AINT CHEAP ! The large milling machine has a distance of 110' and the others are approx half the distance . what machine / set up do you have dozer ?


It is true that the equipment is not cheap, there is nothing really like it on the market. Oh sure a tube boiler cleaner maybe, but that isn't made for sewer pipe and it requires air and water to run it and the tools are not designed for cleaning blockages that we face on a daily basis in a sewer. 

You can easily couple on additional cable to the Maxi Miller unit and it will still run at full rpms. I have personally seen the miller run with 200ft of cable on it in Minnesota while cleaning 6" cast iron.


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## jrsaltz

plungerboy said:


> Whats your booth number at the WETT Show


Booth 4316 come on by and see us! We will be doing demos all day long on several new types of technology.


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## jrsaltz

If you guys want to see some video go to my Facebook page and watch them there. 

I am rusty at posting video here so until i figure it out again check it out. I have a video that shows a typical chain set up of both the Cyclone and Original chains on there. And a cool slow motion video too! 

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004385658126


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## Drain Pro

Thanks for accepting my friend request Jake.


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## 1manshow

jrsaltz said:


> It is true that the equipment is not cheap, there is nothing really like it on the market. Oh sure a tube boiler cleaner maybe, but that isn't made for sewer pipe and it requires air and water to run it and the tools are not designed for cleaning blockages that we face on a daily basis in a sewer.
> 
> You can easily couple on additional cable to the Maxi Miller unit and it will still run at full rpms. I have personally seen the miller run with 200ft of cable on it in Minnesota while cleaning 6" cast iron.


impressive tools , no doubt . huge price tag for small business , but I can see the benefits of having one and being able to market it to the correct clientele.Is there going to be any representation at the Long Beach show in march ? it would be a shame if not .


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## gear junkie

Ok so let me play devil's advocate here. Why is the picote system better then a chain flail on a jetter?

Dozer that job your friend was on.....what kind of nozzle was he using?


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## jrsaltz

1manshow said:


> impressive tools , no doubt . huge price tag for small business , but I can see the benefits of having one and being able to market it to the correct clientele.Is there going to be any representation at the Long Beach show in march ? it would be a shame if not .


I think there will be someone there from Perma-Liner who has a location out there. They have stock of Picote too.


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## 1manshow

jrsaltz said:


> I think there will be someone there from Perma-Liner who has a location out there. They have stock of Picote too.


I hope they have some machines on display along with some accessories


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## KoleckeINC

I still haven't heard what they cost for 6" Mains max 150'


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## bulldozer

Jetter with a chain flail. I think the problem with cutting with a jet is you dont have the torque to grind the cast. I have a big jetter so i know. Jetters do have their place as i love mine. But sometimes the right tool can out produce other methods. I think the biggest problem in our industry is guys are afraid to try something new. There very comfortable with ways that others do and have done. That sets the bar for what there comfortable with. Things improve everyday and you can grasp it or wait till the majority way in.


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## jrsaltz

gear junkie said:


> Ok so let me play devil's advocate here. Why is the picote system better then a chain flail on a jetter?
> 
> Dozer that job your friend was on.....what kind of nozzle was he using?



I have used several chain flail nozzles and most of them lose power when plowed into a bunch of scale. Although they do spin fast there is nothing to ensure the power hangs in there. 

Of course the bigger the nozzle the better the power, but running a larger hose means a bigger nozzle which means it wont fit will in a pipe and you will have limited access. 

I'm not saying they are all bad and you cant get the job done. Just saying the consistent power and torque from a milling machine running at 2000rpm will be able to navigate multiple bends and get the job done faster in many cases. Light jetting many be needed after a heavy scale job to clear the piles of rust left sitting on the bottom.


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## bulldozer

I have some scaling jobs coming up after the show next week. I will post some video.


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## gear junkie

For the record....awesome thread!


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## bulldozer

Just for the record im not a salesman of any kind. Im a tradesman just like everyone else. Im sure theres guys on here that can vouch that i have a passion for the industry and watching it evolve. When i rave over a new tool its because i truly believe it will make all of our lives easier and better.


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## gear junkie

bulldozer said:


> I got mine from hammerhead. Hes not kidding about cleaning the pipe back to new. The first time i used it was on a liner job at a college and it was heavily scaled cast. Almost no flow. *We pulled out almost a five gallon bucket of scale dust out of the line.* The nice thing is you can run your camera right behind it while your scaling. Ive been marketing de-scaling jobs for the last 2 months and it has been a great success. Sometimes we dont even line.


How did you pull the dust out the line? Why did you have to pull the dust out? Was flushing not an option?


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## titaniumplumbr

The whole idea is to be able to clean without much water which prevents backups and messes you use either a jetter or a vac to remove the dust and scale and or buildup from the pipe depending on the length you can have a ten foot plug of scale and debris after cleaning

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## titaniumplumbr

A guy told me the other day to use braided wire on the sand paper head and it cleans garbage off of the pipe like nothing haven't tried it yet but we will see

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## gear junkie

bulldozer said:


> I got the maxi miller.


How does this do with 3" 1/4 bends and wyes?


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## titaniumplumbr

As far as I've seen as long as you are using the appropriate parts it's no problem

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## bulldozer

I will let you know. Just sold another one tonight. This will be perfect for a video. Just has to warm up 10 degrees to jet.


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## titaniumplumbr

bulldozer said:


> I will let you know. Just sold another one tonight. This will be perfect for a video. Just has to warm up 10 degrees to jet.


 happy hunting


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## Shoot'N'Plumber

jrsaltz said:


> I think there will be someone there from Perma-Liner who has a location out there. They have stock of Picote too.


Is it performance utility in corona? I purchase concrete products and specialty tools from them and I know they're a perma liner reseller.


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## sierra2000

Cuda said:


> Here is a link to the hammerhead online store just look at the Picote Section HydraLiner Lining Systems by Hammerhead


Thumbs up for hammerhead for posting prices and making it easy to see what this stuff costs.


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## cjtheplumber

I got one of this things "Picote" with a few heads I'll post pics. The stuff works, cleaning cast iron is child's play is no joke. I would just like a better price that's all. I have saved a few plumbers from digging the street due to failed liners done by them. I can say is one of those tools I like having. It does better than the Jetter sometimes.

What happened to Tony at Picote he is no longer with the company? 
I met the ceo in Indianapolis a few years back doing demos. Great people!


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## cjtheplumber

Box of toys:thumbsup:


IMG_1541 by johnrodriguez769, on Flickr

IMG_1540 by johnrodriguez769, on Flickr

IMG_1542 by johnrodriguez769, on Flickr


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## Cuda

Are you running the 1/2" cable? Also do you use the miller machine or a drill?


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## cjtheplumber

I got both 1/3 and 1/2 right now using a drill and works good. But I know will work better with the miller machine. So far it does what I want with a drill. I like to know what Picote recommends for the best drill to use as far as model and brand ?


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## gear junkie

cjtheplumber said:


> I got both 1/3 and 1/2 right now using a drill and works good. But I know will work better with the miller machine. So far it does what I want with a drill. I like to know what Picote recommends for the best drill to use as far as model and brand ?


Milwaukee drills are what they were using.


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## Cuda

So what length cable 33' or the 100'? I see the coupler in the pic, man those are big bucks! Looks like that 6" has seen some jobs


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## cjtheplumber

Cuda said:


> So what length cable 33' or the 100'? I see the coupler in the pic, man those are big bucks! Looks like that 6" has seen some jobs


1/2 inch is 100ft 
1/3 is 50 
Yes the 6" has done some jobs, but the one I use the most is the smart cutter and the chains. Too bad the sand paper don't last much that's why I keep new ones all the time. All and all roots are not match and is the best tool so far for cast iron. 

I was looking into the robotic cutters before this but man 70k. This cutter did what I wanted which is open closed liners. Sometimes when I show up to open a liner and I pull out my drill and my Picote box people are like wtf you do this with a drill:jester: My answer is yeah the drill helps but is really the special bits that do the job. Once they see it in action. They ask where they can buy the drill. I tell them any Home Depot but home does not have the Picote there :laughing:


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## jrsaltz

cjtheplumber said:


> I got one of this things "Picote" with a few heads I'll post pics. The stuff works, cleaning cast iron is child's play is no joke. I would just like a better price that's all. I have saved a few plumbers from digging the street due to failed liners done by them. I can say is one of those tools I like having. It does better than the Jetter sometimes.
> 
> What happened to Tony at Picote he is no longer with the company?
> I met the ceo in Indianapolis a few years back doing demos. Great people!



Tony is still with us! He is our Worldwide Director of Product Management and keeps us organized in many different ways as well as travels to meet with people about our products. He will be in Dubai soon for a large trenchless tradeshow. 

Im going to Stockholm Sweden around the same time so i think i got the better deal! I will tell him you said hello. :thumbup:


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## jrsaltz

cjtheplumber said:


> I got both 1/3 and 1/2 right now using a drill and works good. But I know will work better with the miller machine. So far it does what I want with a drill. I like to know what Picote recommends for the best drill to use as far as model and brand ?


Our tools can be run off of a drill as long as the length is not much longer than 32 ft. Even so, it can be very cumbersome and dangerous to do so just like any other drain cable used for cleaning. 

The milling machines offer safety and far more power than a drill especially on the larger cable. 

If you are going to use a drill you must have high torque and rpm over 1500. I recommend the Milwaukee Super Hawg. 

The drills we use at tradeshows and Milwaukee high speed 1/2" drills but we are only running a maximum of 3-4 feet of cable. We are showing the cutting power of the tools not the drill. A loss of torque and rpm will not allow our tolls to function properly and this is why we do not recommend a drill in most cases. A drill just cant handle the load put on them at longer distances.


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## Unclog1776

At the wwett show I really liked the picote demo. Only thing that I had to question was the lengths. Is it possible to run more than 100ft? The smaller unit seemed more practical but was only a 50 footer


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## jrsaltz

Unclog1776 said:


> At the wwett show I really liked the picote demo. Only thing that I had to question was the lengths. Is it possible to run more than 100ft? The smaller unit seemed more practical but was only a 50 footer


It is possible to add a cable connector and extend the length of the cable. On the Maxi Miller 100 ft. unit you can safely add an additional 50ft of cable. The Mini Miller 55ft. it is safe to add 25 ft. for a 80ft reach.


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## stecar

Still dont know why NyC doesnt have ashow.
Anyway how much is a setup for 100' with the cutters?
Do you sell this as an addon to jetting or in place of?


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## cjtheplumber

The million dollar question what can you do for us interested in buying equipment? I've been thinking about the miller but the price stops me from getting it. My drill has worked maybe not the best options but it does the job. I won't lie I want the miller when the price is right.


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## Unclog1776

They aren't cheap but equipment that works is priceless. I was very impressed by the cleaning ability I saw in the demo. The length limit holds me back. How effective is it on roots past 100ft?


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## PPRI

Personally I think you are going to see a lot of advancements in this type of equipment in the near future. Picote has just scratched the surface.


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## Drain Pro

Picote has interesting stuff but I still say that you can't beat a Jetter with proper nozzles (for drain cleaning).


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## cjtheplumber

Drain Pro said:


> Picote has interesting stuff but I still say that you can't beat a Jetter with proper nozzles (for drain cleaning).


I have both and I have seen the Picote do things the jetter can't. I have also seen things the jetter does that Picote cant. Depends on what you use it for.


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## gear junkie

cjtheplumber said:


> I have both and I have seen the Picote do things the jetter can't. I have also seen things the jetter does that Picote cant. Depends on what you use it for.


What kind of things? Any examples?


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## PPRI

I still believe the jetter is an extremely relevant piece of equipment. If I was dealing with a soft blockage or grease, the jetter is the tool of choice. The jetter has the ability to flush debris in a hurry. 

Now for a heavy root intrusion, scale or random objects we sometimes encounter. I'm going to send a milling machine through.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Unclog1776 said:


> At the wwett show I really liked the picote demo. Only thing that I had to question was the lengths. Is it possible to run more than 100ft? The smaller unit seemed more practical but was only a 50 footer


I didn't know you made it to the show. You should have looked us up. Me, Gear Junkie, PPRI, Plungerboy, Bulldozer, and DrainPro all hung out. Oh well, maybe next year. Were you there all week?


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## Unclog1776

Best Darn Sewer said:


> I didn't know you made it to the show. You should have looked us up. Me, Gear Junkie, PPRI, Plungerboy, Bulldozer, and DrainPro all hung out. Oh well, maybe next year. Were you there all week?


I only live 4 hours away. A couple buddies and I drove there in the morning only spent a couple hours in the show. We had a list of exhibits and got out of there early. 

Was a little unplanned but things slow down when it gets this cold next year I'm planning to get a room and stay a few days


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## cjtheplumber

gear junkie said:


> What kind of things? Any examples?


Picote does not do any flushing of anything something the jetter does.

The Picote is better at d-scaling cleaning cast iron or some very thick roots that the jetter won't cut.

The picote opens closed liners better than the jetter. This is something you can do with jetting but does not work as good as the picote. 

The pocote does not remove grease build up, this is something the jetter will always do. They both have limitations.

I could keep going on and on but these are the main ones for me.


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