# Combination wye w/ side inlet IPC



## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

According to IPC quarter bends with side inlets can be used to drain a water closet and an additional fixture. Is the same true for combination wye and 1/8 bend with side inlet? Can i use either one of these in place of the side inlet quarter bend? Notice that the inlet in the second pic is located at the center of the wye. If i added an 1/8 bend to the wye it would not be the same fitting as the first combination fitting.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

not legal to use...neither of them


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Those are some ugly a$$ed fittings. Poor guy who has to drain clean and will surely knot up like a pretzel!


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> not legal to use...neither of them


Prove it.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

NyNick said:


> Prove it.



read your" new york state code book"...
why dont you ask the master plumber you are working for?


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

There is no mention in the 2015 IPC. That's why I'm asking here. I was hoping you'd prove why it's not right. Since there is no rule in the book I guess it's up to the authority having jurisdiction which still doesn't explain why a combination eye with side inlet can't be used. I never used one but see them available. 
In section 706.3 of the IPC it says that change in direction by combo fittings,side inlets may be used according to the table.
The closest more specific reference to this can be seen in 2015 ICC Residential code: P3005.1.3 Heel- Or Side-Inlet Quarter Bends, Venting Heel-inlet or side-inlet quarter bends, or any arrangement of pipe and fittings producing a similar effect, shall be acceptable as a dry vent where the inlet is placed in a vertical position.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

ounce again why dont you ask the master plumber you are working for, if you are not then you cant be a journey man...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

You don't have a pipe mechanics association to ask those questions? No plumbing inspector you can call?

If there isn't a higher authority that know your local plumbing code then it's not very organised.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Tango said:


> Those are some ugly a$$ed fittings. Poor guy who has to drain clean and will surely knot up like a pretzel!


Take the wye for example some drain cleaner is going through the sink line goes into that funky wye, goes up and ends ends up going through the toilet while a hospital patient next door is sitting on the throne.

How about that? That's a snake you don't want to encounter! :vs_rightHere:


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I can hear my inspector’s cackling chuckle ringing in my ears!

Won’t do much good, but I can look it up in my Michigan code book tomorrow....


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I replaced my mom's bathtub in her condominium. It was on the 3rd floor of a wood-frame structure built in the 1980's upstate NY.


After I removed the old 5' steel tub, the overflow pipe fell over. I cut the floor under the bathtub and saw a 3" sanitary tee w/ a 2" side inlet. The 2" ABS that was previously glued into the 2" side inlet, had come un-done. That 2" was picking up the tub.


I would have to check my code to see if these fittings are even allowed, but I can state that back in the 1990's when I started in the plumbing trade, we didn't use these fittings. Although I 've seen them in buildings that we've renovated and such. So at one time they were used extensively. Perhaps now not so much. 


But the upright wye with the side-inlet is perfect for a W/C and a tub {that is, if it is not prohibited in most modern codes}.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I replaced my mom's bathtub in her condominium. It was on the 3rd floor of a wood-frame structure built in the 1980's upstate NY.
> 
> 
> After I removed the old 5' steel tub, the overflow pipe fell over. I cut the floor under the bathtub and saw a 3" sanitary tee w/ a 2" side inlet. The 2" ABS that was previously glued into the 2" side inlet, had come un-done. That 2" was picking up the tub.
> ...


we used to use them in that orientation back then, always passed inspection for us.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

We don't have those funky fittings in the province so that means they are illegal.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Those fittings wouldn’t pass here, but we are still allowed to replace an old crows nest with a pvc one.


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## ken53 (Mar 1, 2011)

They aren't illegal in Canada they are still listed in the code. In western Canada they have a nickname. "Bungalow tee" they can be purchased in 4" or 3" with a 2" or 1-1/2" right, or left hand side inlet. Made from Copper, ABS, PVC, Cast iron, and Fire rated XFR-PVC. To pass inspection the base of the stack must have an expansion fitting to protect it and all above it in case the ground shifts.

I have worked in six different provinces and some had amended the code banning them.


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm on a plumbing forum asking a question about code in the code room and I got one guy saying to ask a master plumber and if I can't I'm not a Journeyman? What are you carding me?And I got the moderator telling to find a plumbers association in my area and ask them? Bizarre. The only code yous can teach me is the Martian Code. 
Bayside, Tommy, and Opensites Thanks for your reply and input.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Ontario Ty yup we can use them here. 
As long as the water closet is the last fixture tied in on the stack vented group.
So the inlet for the other stack vented fixtures on this fitting would be just above the clost connection.
The pics of the fittings you posted dont look designed to meet the code though.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

NyNick said:


> I'm on a plumbing forum asking a question about code in the code room and I got one guy saying to ask a master plumber and if I can't I'm not a Journeyman? What are you carding me?And I got the moderator telling to find a plumbers association in my area and ask them? Bizarre. The only code yous can teach me is the Martian Code.
> Bayside, Tommy, and Opensites Thanks for your reply and input.


I agree, nothing wrong with discussing plumbing here. It's a plumbing forum.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

NyNick said:


> I'm on a plumbing forum asking a question about code in the code room and I got one guy saying to ask a master plumber and if I can't I'm not a Journeyman? What are you carding me?*And I got the moderator telling to find a plumbers association in my area and ask them? *Bizarre. The only code yous can teach me is the Martian Code.
> Bayside, Tommy, and Opensites Thanks for your reply and input.


Calm down, you interpreted me to be hostile. When I have a code question I call my pipe mechanics association and they have technicians who will look in the provincial code and other foreign codes that are useful and confer between themselves to find me the answer I need. I also have access to lawyers and law document pertaining to the trade and other services. I pay over a thousand dollars every year to be a member which by the way is mandatory to operate a plumbing business.

I think you should read more posts to realize no one has the same codes, rules and regulations. What is legal in one area isn't in others.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

canuck92 said:


> Ontario Ty yup we can use them here.
> As long as the water closet is the last fixture tied in on the stack vented group.
> So the inlet for the other stack vented fixtures on this fitting would be just above the clost connection.
> The pics of the fittings you posted dont look designed to meet the code though.


Those infamous Ontario Twye? I forget the name of the other fitting with a side hole. I installed just one or two of them in a highrise apartment building in Ontario.


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

NyNick said:


> I'm on a plumbing forum asking a question about code in the code room and I got one guy saying to ask a master plumber and if I can't I'm not a Journeyman? What are you carding me?And I got the moderator telling to find a plumbers association in my area and ask them? Bizarre. The only code yous can teach me is the Martian Code.
> Bayside, Tommy, and Opensites Thanks for your reply and input.


Different areas have different authoritys.
Similar to tango, In UPC land I can call a code hotline and ask that these types of questions.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

NyNick said:


> I'm on a plumbing forum asking a question about code in the code room and I got one guy saying to ask a master plumber and if I can't I'm not a Journeyman? What are you carding me?And I got the moderator telling to find a plumbers association in my area and ask them? Bizarre. The only code yous can teach me is the Martian Code.
> Bayside, Tommy, and Opensites Thanks for your reply and input.



well lets be honest, you arent a plumber, you work as a handi man in a hospital doing plumbing work, thats why you dont know if these fittings are legal or not, any 3rd year journeyman would know this, so thats why you arent getting answers..and this info is from your earlier threads and posts..


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

NyNick said:


> According to IPC quarter bends with side inlets can be used to drain a water closet and an additional fixture. Is the same true for combination wye and 1/8 bend with side inlet? Can i use either one of these in place of the side inlet quarter bend? Notice that the inlet in the second pic is located at the center of the wye. If i added an 1/8 bend to the wye it would not be the same fitting as the first combination fitting.



Nick, you introduced yourself in 2013. That being 5 years ago.

You should well know codes vary all over North America & Canada. Many locations do not have a State wide code (at least in the U.S.), I really don't know how Canada handles their provinces. Usually if a fitting is not listed in the AHJ code book it doesn't exist, therefore not approved. For me in Illinois a good example is a "twin ell", you won't find it in a our code book, but I have not heard of it being turned down for a vent use. 


If you can't find it in "your" code book, I would not use it until I contacted the AHJ and got a determination. Personally I see no issues with it. We have been using 4 way cross tees in Illinois for years in the vertical to pipe back to back baths for years. Side outlet tees, side outlet ells, low & high heel ells are also utilized here. Even at the State level I see many things that have been allowed that are not compliant using the verbiage of the code.

Personally, the tee-wye I would think could be used in either the vertical or horizontal position. The side inlet branch begin near the same as a side outlet ell. The wye on the other hand, I would only consider in the vertical, just based on approved fittings for the transition of directions.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

GAN said:


> You should well know codes vary all over North America & Canada. Many locations do not have a State wide code (at least in the U.S.), I really don't know how Canada handles their provinces.


We have the national code and the province of QC modified it for their jurisdiction.


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Think it might be called a toronto fitting. 
There very original when naming these things eh
This was for tango. Not sure why it didnt tag him


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

canuck92 said:


> Think it might be called a toronto fitting.
> There very original when naming these things eh
> This was for tango. Not sure why it didnt tag him


Ontario and Toronto fittings, I think its because they'e only installed there!?


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

well lets be honest, you arent a plumber, you work as a handi man in a hospital doing plumbing work, thats why you dont know if these fittings are legal or not, any 3rd year journeyman would know this, so thats why you arent getting answers..and this info is from your earlier threads and posts..[/QUOTE]

Creepy... and what year journeyman are you since you just said they are illegal and apparently they aren't? You must be B. So either your A and have no idea what your talking about or your B and the only Dwv fittings you've seen are under a homeowners sink. Your also probably laid off since you have time to read posts I've made since 2013.


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

Tango said:


> NyNick said:
> 
> 
> > I'm on a plumbing forum asking a question about code in the code room and I got one guy saying to ask a master plumber and if I can't I'm not a Journeyman? What are you carding me?*And I got the moderator telling to find a plumbers association in my area and ask them? *Bizarre. The only code yous can teach me is the Martian Code.
> ...


Yes I did... I apologize. You usually give me good advise.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

ken53 said:


> They aren't illegal in Canada they are still listed in the code. In western Canada they have a nickname. "Bungalow tee" they can be purchased in 4" or 3" with a 2" or 1-1/2" right, or left hand side inlet. Made from Copper, ABS, PVC, Cast iron, and Fire rated XFR-PVC. To pass inspection the base of the stack must have an expansion fitting to protect it and all above it in case the ground shifts.
> 
> I have worked in six different provinces and some had amended the code banning them.
















I replaced some rotted cast iron in a Palm Beach, FL mansion some years ago. There was a 4" san tee with the side inlet that I needed to replace among other things. On that job is when I learned that while facing the fitting, if the side inlet is on the right, then its a RH side inlet. If while facing the fitting {looking into the branch opening} the side inlet is on the left, then it's a LH side inlet.


Useful fitting to have in PVC when replacing like-for-like while removing old cast iron.


If the san tee w/ a side-inlet was not made in PVC, then it would be much more difficult to pipe the DWV for existing homes without having to cut and notch wood and such. And of course the building code doesn't allow load-bearing members to be butchered. So it's nice to remove a 4" CI san tee w/ a left-hand side inlet and put the exact same size and shape fitting back but in PVC.


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

The assumptions here are running wild though. I honestly never used, seen them used, nor have an immediate work related situation that I'm thinking about using them in. I saw them and looked at my code and wanted to know more by asking here. I know different areas have different codes. I'm looking for more along the lines of what Tommy said and less jibberjabber along the lines of what Creepy Mcplumber is saying.


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

To clarify....I want to know based on your experience have you used the Bostons in my above picture. More specifically have you used them in or seen them used in the State of NY which is governed by the IPC 2010 code or currently 2015. It is currently the year of our lord 2019. I am operating on eastern standard time. 39ft above see level and I'm asking out of pure interest.. .no backsies


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

We have a lot of old houses in my area, not New England old, but pre-dating indoor plumbing. Last year, I think, we were replacing old rotten cast in a historic house. HO wanted her house to be restored to original condition. I don’t remember the dirty details, but for whatever reason the only way we could hide it in the wall and ceiling was to use a 4x4” 90 with a 2” inlet. Before installing and racking our brains on how to make the repair to code, we called our inspector to see what he wanted us to do. He scratched his head for a good half hour and finally said, “Yeah, I see no other way either. I’ll approve rough on it.”


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

NyNick said:


> The assumptions here are running wild though. I honestly never used, seen them used, nor have an immediate work related situation that I'm thinking about using them in. I saw them and looked at my code and wanted to know more by asking here. I know different areas have different codes. I'm looking for more along the lines of what Tommy said and less jibberjabber along the lines of what Creepy Mcplumber is saying.


well if you want to quell the assumptions then why can you answer a simple question if you work under a master plumber? or are you just a guy working at the hospital doing plumbing work??


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

NyNick said:


> According to IPC quarter bends with side inlets can be used to drain a water closet and an additional fixture. Is the same true for combination wye and 1/8 bend with side inlet? Can i use either one of these in place of the side inlet quarter bend? Notice that the inlet in the second pic is located at the center of the wye. If i added an 1/8 bend to the wye it would not be the same fitting as the first combination fitting.



I dont know IPC code but that is not an 1/4bend with side inlet thats like asking if you can use a santee on its side instead of a combi. not being a smart ass but even a legal fitting must be used in an approved manner. To me those fittings in the picture have a way they can be installed you need to look at them closely and it should be apparant kinda hard to explain it better ,


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Some tradsman have had the fortune of gathering experiance is many areas of the trade and others have been limited to 1 area, so theres no stupid questions and it doesnt take away the fact that your still a licensed plumber. I know very little about the heating side to things so i might ask very basic questions that might seem stupid to some guys but i wont know if i dont ask.

The whole point of us being on here is to learn from eachother.


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

jeffreyplumber said:


> NyNick said:
> 
> 
> > According to IPC quarter bends with side inlets can be used to drain a water closet and an additional fixture. Is the same true for combination wye and 1/8 bend with side inlet? Can i use either one of these in place of the side inlet quarter bend? Notice that the inlet in the second pic is located at the center of the wye. If i added an 1/8 bend to the wye it would not be the same fitting as the first combination fitting.
> ...


No, i hear what your saying. I agree. Thats a Boston with a side inlet. You can use a quarter bend with side inlet to drain a water closet and sink for example. I was wondering if you could use one of the above in its place. NY ipc only mentions quarter bends with side inlets and heels. I didnt know if by not mentioning other similar fittings like the above meant they were not to be used. Or is it a question of those side inlet Bostons being fair game since they are niether explicity banned from not being used or even mentioned in the code and the ipc leaves it up to the authority having jurisdiction.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Bayside500 said:


> we used to use them in that orientation back then, always passed inspection for us.






















I am sorry to orig. poster for this being off-topic:


Bayside, are you re-certifying your med gas installer this year? I'm trying to find an on-line course to do my mandatory 4-hour class. The NITC in now mandating that we do a minimum 4-hr. class prior to taking the re-cert. exam.


Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I am sorry to orig. poster for this being off-topic:
> 
> 
> Bayside, are you re-certifying your med gas installer this year? I'm trying to find an on-line course to do my mandatory 4-hour class. The NITC in now mandating that we do a minimum 4-hr. class prior to taking the re-cert. exam.
> ...


i think we did it last year at the shop, there are some changes in the code for sure. i have yet to use the med gas stuff in all the time i have been certified though, but the boss pays for it so why not LOL
we do have an older union guy that does what little med gas stuff we need done though


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## NyNick (Feb 14, 2013)

Bayside500 said:


> Tommy plumber said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry to orig. poster for this being off-topic:
> ...


I got recertified about 8 months ago. The test was different than previous years. The test was in color and they had a color coding pipe label section. It was hard to tell the difference between a couple of colors since whoever printed it out had a bad copier...good luck


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Legal or not those fittings are garbage and if they wont work get a saw and a hammer and a big hilti if needed.

Also no one needs to be a dick to someone for just asking a question when that is why this site is here.



.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I replaced some rotted cast iron in a Palm Beach, FL mansion some years ago. There was a 4" san tee with the side inlet that I needed to replace among other things. On that job is when I learned that while facing the fitting, if the side inlet is on the right, then its a RH side inlet. If while facing the fitting {looking into the branch opening} the side inlet is on the left, then it's a LH side inlet.
> 
> 
> Useful fitting to have in PVC when replacing like-for-like while removing old cast iron.
> ...





We have used literally hundreds of left hand and right hand side outlet 3 and 4 inch tees and crosses in our area. over the past 50 years... I have probably 50 of them in mothballs today and would use them if the occasion arose because they work and are actually more better than what the code calls for..........

My father called them Left or right hand IDEAL TEES and CROSSES
they have worked perfectly for decades and so will the new ones today....

Something to remember is the fitting companies like Genova dont like to spend money on plastic molds for fittings that are not legal or accepted in most areas of the country... 

they are not in business to punch out thousands of experimental 
fittings to see if plumbers like them.... they have done research and development on this and its not something that they half assed threw together one day....


their are some serious no hub cast fittings for multi story apartment applications that I will have to find the pictures for that totally blew me away when I ran across them years ago in colorado 

These cast fittings are legal and make your pvc fittings look like childs play in comparison.... .............

https://www.google.com/search?q=ide...iw=1422&bih=980&dpr=0.9#imgrc=bzior5e3aNc59M:



https://www.google.com/search?q=ide...iw=1422&bih=980&dpr=0.9#imgrc=P0K4hugwp3PJhM:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> their are some serious no hub cast fittings for multi story apartment applications that I will have to find the pictures for that totally blew me away when I ran across them years ago in colorado
> 
> These cast fittings are legal and make your pvc fittings look like childs play in comparison.... .............
> 
> ...


Poor [email protected]@rd who has a service job 50 years down the road. You think you are going there for an hour job and it turns out for 2 days of work in 2 separated floors on 2 condo units. The guy upstairs will absolutely refuse you cut out his cabinets to cut the wall behind it. And one of them won't want to pay the bill.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tango said:


> Poor [email protected]@rd who has a service job 50 years down the road. You think you are going there for an hour job and it turns out for 2 days of work in 2 separated floors on 2 condo units. The guy upstairs will absolutely refuse you cut out his cabinets to cut the wall behind it. And one of them won't want to pay the bill.



You could have a valid point about this being a problem some day down the road for some poor bas/ard, but 
that is not the issue at hand you are discussing..... 

They have made these for decades and are more than legal in most states.... probably used a lot in Chicago where cast is still king ... I would guess that some day it might crack in the wall and its gonna be hell to repair but I have seen some junk like that around here going back into the late 1800s that is still working fine.......

The PVC side outlet fittings are legal too and you know they are gonna last far longer than the cast fittings ever will.......

your bad luck is your bad luck and TANGO , you are probably the only guy on this site who will stumble into a mess like this anyway.... 

so I thought I would show you what you got to tangle assho/es with some day up in Canada......LOL:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::biggrin::devil3:

Enjoy.....:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

agree with master mark that these fittings made and installed by the hundreds or thousands ( probebly hundreds of thousands ) should work fine , when installed properly .
there are many specialty fittings just look in a fitting book. but gotta be installed proper. just like a santee is legal but you cant lay it on its side and use it like a combi for waste. Pretty sure ours needs a upc mark on it though


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