# Can this be done



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Here is a clothes washer pumping 8 ft high...... will it work and is it to code


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

It may work until the pump fails, and it is illegal under every code that I know.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I think the washer and dryer both have issues. You need a check valve at the very least or your gonna get dirty water right back in the washer.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> I think the washer and dryer both have issues. You need a check valve at the very least or your gonna get dirty water right back in the washer.


the blue fitting is a check valve


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> the blue fitting is a check valve


 Washing machine pumps are not designed to work under head pressure.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

LEAD INGOT said:


> Washing machine pumps are not designed to work under head pressure.


So maybe its not a good idea .... I should take it apart


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

hook it up to a laundry pump and problem is solved.
Amazon.com: Zoeller 105-0001 Laundry Pump Package Including M53 Sump Pump: Home Improvement


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

LEAD INGOT said:


> Washing machine pumps are not designed to work under head pressure.


My understanding is that newer washing machines have much more powerful pumps. Actually able to pump 7' vertical off machine. I do agree with the check valve since it's the same principal as an ejector pump and the recycling of water back into the machine will shorten the pump's life.
Feel free to correct me, as this is only what I've read and experienced.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> I think the washer and dryer both have issues. You need a check valve at the very least or your gonna get dirty water right back in the washer.


What you don't like the dryer hook up either ?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> What you don't like the dryer hook up either ?



The washer might work for awhile if that is a check. I thought washers required a air break. I'm not sure where the ABS is going, and if there is a trap involved. I guess the water in the pump system of the washing machine might act as a trap. 

Not a big fan of the S trap for lent. I don't know about code, the can run the stuff up through the roof here. That seems crazy to me and there are some fires but I'm not an appliance guy.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I guess it is kind of a hack job...


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

mccmech said:


> My understanding is that newer washing machines have much more powerful pumps. Actually able to pump 7' vertical off machine. I do agree with the check valve since it's the same principal as an ejector pump and the recycling of water back into the machine will shorten the pump's life.
> Feel free to correct me, as this is only what I've read and experienced.


 Pumps that displace water faster. But still need to discharge into an adequate sized reciever. In my code, a vented 2" p-trap that has a waste arm no longer than 5', and a standpipe riser between 18" and 30" from reciever to trap weir.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Who farted?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> I guess it is kind of a hack job...



That depends, how much did you charge?:laughing:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

LEAD INGOT said:


> Pumps that displace water faster. But still need to discharge into an adequate sized reciever. In my code, a vented 2" p-trap that has a waste arm no longer than 5', and a standpipe riser between 18" and 30" from reciever to trap weir.



I think the line goes up and over to the other side of the room where the standpipe is.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> That depends, how much did you charge?:laughing:


Thats the funny thing we didn't do it...

We were called out to fix it ....

I though you guys would have though I did it :laughing:

here is the fix


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Aav


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Lent box for the dryer or are you gonna let them burn.


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

Much better job!! 

Can you put an AAV on a sump pump? It is my understanding under my code, IPC that it has to be an engineered system? 

I have a customer with an aav on a sump and it only has a lav sink hooked up, it vacuum locks like crazy so instead of having me fix it, he just unscrews it a bit to break the vacuum, then all is well again!


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> Much better job!!
> 
> Can you put an AAV on a sump pump? It is my understanding under my code, IPC that it has to be an engineered system?
> 
> I have a customer with an aav on a sump and it only has a lav sink hooked up, it vacuum locks like crazy so instead of having me fix it, he just unscrews it a bit to break the vacuum, then all is well again!


It's not causing enough of a vacuum to pull the spring open on the AAV?


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## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

playme1979 said:


> It's not causing enough of a vacuum to pull the spring open on the AAV?


No, its hacked in, the aav is just a couple inches off the basin also. The water sits in the sink, drips down the tail piece until you unscrew the aav. what make sit worse is its a bar sink with a small strainer. Those always suck as it is. Its a do over. but he is ok unscrewing it


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

No you cannot use an AAV on a laundry sump. When the sump fills, there is no way air can get out. This will cause pump to go on & off several times, if its a pressure switch. If not a pressure switch, it will simply blow the air out through the sink trap.

Been a while since I put one in, but I believe it says it, right in the manufacturers instructions.

Also where are the WHA"s on hot & cold:laughing:.


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Aav


Sump looks good but aav would not fly in my neck of the woods.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

No AAV on sumps here either.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Needs to dump into a sump pit with a dual sump pump set up.

Nice lent trap on the fire hazard exhaust :thumbsup:


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

bizzybeeplumbin said:


> No, its hacked in, the aav is just a couple inches off the basin also. The water sits in the sink, drips down the tail piece until you unscrew the aav. what make sit worse is its a bar sink with a small strainer. Those always suck as it is. Its a do over. but he is ok unscrewing it


That is air locked not vacuum locked


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Where does it show in the ipc 2006 or 2009 that you can't use aav on pump setup ?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Sudsing could be a problem. I know that particular Drainasaur model is up to the task of discharging the volume of waste water, but still, sudsing might be a problem -- Particularly with the aav thrown into the equation.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Just take the AAV off. Put a fabric dryer sheet over the vent to take care of the smell. GTG!!


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## slayrider (Feb 14, 2012)

Where does the air in the tank go when the washer pumps out? The tank is sealed and the discharge is under pressure so in my opinion your solution is right but for the lack of a vent. I have the same in my basement for a washer and sink vented to a wet vent behind the kitchen sink. Solution works and no grating noises from wife!


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

slayrider said:


> Where does the air in the tank go when the washer pumps out? The tank is sealed and the discharge is under pressure so in my opinion your solution is right but for the lack of a vent. I have the same in my basement for a washer and sink vented to a wet vent behind the kitchen sink. Solution works and no grating noises from wife!


Your idea does sound right... You would figure the air in the tank would have to be displaced...

Good thing air can be compressed easily unlike water....

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

playme1979 said:


> Where does it show in the ipc 2006 or 2009 that you can't use aav on pump setup ?


"Vent to roof"

Where does it say aav is ok?


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

slayrider said:


> Where does the air in the tank go when the washer pumps out? The tank is sealed and the discharge is under pressure so in my opinion your solution is right but for the lack of a vent. I have the same in my basement for a washer and sink vented to a wet vent behind the kitchen sink. Solution works and no grating noises from wife!


I agree air needs to be displaced, aav will not allow proper ventilation, sump well needs to breathe.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Plumb Bob said:


> "Vent to roof"
> 
> Where does it say aav is ok?


I've only used an aav once in a have to situation , still don't like it. But some of the pumps out there specifically state no aav and others say doesn't matter go by local codes. I looked in the ipc last night and couldn't find a reference to it.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Auto vents and container sump pump systems don't mix well, regardless of what is allowed in your area...and this set up is even worse with the washer pump dumping fast into an air-locked container.

I'd be amazed if this worked at all.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

playme1979 said:


> I've only used an aav once in a have to situation , still don't like it. But some of the pumps out there specifically state no aav and others say doesn't matter go by local codes. I looked in the ipc last night and couldn't find a reference to it.



AVV's operate under/because of negative pressure. Can't see that condition happening in a closed/sealed system.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Why would you get odor in a small w/m sump set-up. Its sealed by the check valve so you could eliminate hooking the vent and let it open air a few feet up. It should be vented out but would work fine with no smell..aav wont work. I suppose if the check failed then it would smell of course.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

I'm surprised that it doesn't back up at the stand pipe due to positive pressure in the tank caused by that AAV. Is that pump pressure activated or does it have a float?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Here's plan B in case the dryer sheet isn't to your liking. Put a ball valve on the vent, every time they wash clothes, open the valve. Genius idea I know. No thanks needed.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

You can install aav on sealed sump pump if ya piped it in correctly.. done it and no problem .


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> You can install aav on sealed sump pump if ya piped it in correctly.. done it and no problem .


 I dont think so...perhaps we need pics here to be sure we are talking the same thing. A sealed container especially a small one needs to evacuate air. An aav is one way...the wrong way. Water wont properly enter a sealed container.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> You can install aav on sealed sump pump if ya piped it in correctly.. done it and no problem .


I've done it also...and pump struggled badly and sink drained slowly until I pulled it off. 

And yes...I stacked it out correctly. 

For a gravity drained sink an AV will serve poorly, but for a washer dumping in under pressure I really doubt it could even work badly :no:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> I've done it also...and pump struggled badly and sink drained slowly until I pulled it off.
> 
> And yes...I stacked it out correctly.
> 
> For a gravity drained sink an AV will serve poorly, but for a washer dumping in under pressure I really doubt it could even work badly :no:


 Can't find it now.. but there's a piping diaghram showing how to pipe it correctly and not have any problem.. its only one way to do it..


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

stillaround said:


> I dont think so...perhaps we need pics here to be sure we are talking the same thing. A sealed container especially a small one needs to evacuate air. An aav is one way...the wrong way. Water wont properly enter a sealed container.


Exactly, the AAV will only protect the trap seal from being siphoned. A relief vent is needed for water to drain into the sump. The only way I see that thing working is if the pump has a pressure switch as opposed to a float. The stand pipe would probably fill close to the top before the pump came on though.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Found it... Studer aav website.. fig. 12. Any opinon? I agree but its better than the handy hack having a stand pipe standing there with exposed end ...


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Well, its getting air from the upper section of a horizontal drain on the discharge side of the check.......in the case of the basement w/m you'd have to run the vent to the horizontal, and by then might as well run it out. Any time the lateral fills problems will start. And that horizontal has to be a gravity drain open to another source of air.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Found it... Studer aav website.. fig. 12. Any opinon? I agree but its better than the handy hack having a stand pipe standing there with exposed end ...


I stand corrected...I didn't loop vent like that the last time I tried an AAV on a container sump. I can see how that design has got the potential to make a gravity drain inlet system work.

Thanks, rjbphd...you just learned me something :thumbup:


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Found it... Studer aav website.. fig. 12. Any opinon? I agree but its better than the handy hack having a stand pipe standing there with exposed end ...


That will work, but any stoppage, or even a partial blockage in that hoizonal drain past the point where the vent ties in, will have that pump pushing water right back into the tank through the vent.


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

break the floor add a stand pipe problem solved and you make $$ do it right that pic should go in the hack photos lol


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## Pinnacle (May 16, 2012)

and tie into the vent somewhere im sure theres a 3 piece or something or an oatey studor if anything


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

The dryer vent is a trap! Overtime the condensation will get trapped!


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Found it... Studer aav website.. fig. 12. Any opinon? I agree but its better than the handy hack having a stand pipe standing there with exposed end ...


 Be about the same as doing a Combination Waste and Vent system , they are both engineered systems that work by using the drain line as a vent


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