# Plumbing Franchise



## Mr.Preferable (Jun 7, 2011)

I've been on here a few times reading post from members on and off for a few years. I tonight decided to become a member in hopes I could get some honest opinions about Franchises and what there pros and cons are. I'm a master plumber and honestly a franchise owner. i may be a bit bias but I can share some things that make us all more successfulness. With out the franchise I am a great plumber. I am not a great business man. and to be honest i see that in a few of the members here too. Great plumbers but short sighted on what their cost are for their business. I have a long since moto that "this isn't plumbing for Jesus". I have a Christan faith and still I believe he and our father gave me the presence of mind to run a business successfully without having to be charitable to the point I have a negative balance sheet. In my franchise I pick my rates based upon my cost and overhead. in talking with my local small one and two man shows they rarely know what their operating expenses are much less are they profitable.

So the reason for the question is not for me to look down upon the independent man its more for me to help gauge weather or not i want to stay with it. You see i too know the value of an independent and where it can go or not. its more for me to bring to the surface those who have had experiences with a franchise and what they learned. What you would do different or the same. would you change a thing? Just a curiosity that I would love some good debate on for the benefit of all.

Thanks


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Thanks for sharing. I'd be interested in hearing from a franchise owner. I know little about them.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Just stop over here first and we'll welcome you to the club...

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

i hate to say this but i'm reading a book of the sayings of jesus. i don't seem to find anything about running a business. luke 6:30 and matthew 5:42 come to mind. not sayin nutin, just askin, just askin. breid...............:rockon:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Mr.Preferable said:


> I've been on here a few times reading post from members on and off for a few years. I tonight decided to become a member in hopes I could get some honest opinions about Franchises and what there pros and cons are. I'm a master plumber and honestly a franchise owner. i may be a bit bias but I can share some things that make us all more successfulness. With out the franchise I am a great plumber. I am not a great business man. and to be honest i see that in a few of the members here too. Great plumbers but short sighted on what their cost are for their business. I have a long since moto that "this isn't plumbing for Jesus". I have a Christan faith and still I believe he and our father gave me the presence of mind to run a business successfully without having to be charitable to the point I have a negative balance sheet. In my franchise I pick my rates based upon my cost and overhead. in talking with my local small one and two man shows they rarely know what their operating expenses are much less are they profitable.
> 
> So the reason for the question is not for me to look down upon the independent man its more for me to help gauge weather or not i want to stay with it. You see i too know the value of an independent and where it can go or not. its more for me to bring to the surface those who have had experiences with a franchise and what they learned. What you would do different or the same. would you change a thing? Just a curiosity that I would love some good debate on for the benefit of all.
> 
> Thanks


* Contradiction*

*If God gave you the presence of mind to run a business successfully.... then why did you have to buy into a franchise... *

So what are the pros and cons of the franchise you bought into..

and what would make you more successful owning a franchise?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*which franchise???*

there is a mr rooter franchise that crashed and burned 
in our town last year... 

left a tall hole , building , trucks and all....

I wonder sometimes what they had to pay for the franchise and what backing the franchise gave this place.... 50K?? or more to use that name alone

 I am willing to bet that the franchise people still wanted their cut even as the place was hitting the tree tops.... Just like success international:laughing::yes:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I guess not all franchises are profitable....

So what could a franchise offer if there is no safe gaurd to going under...??


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> I guess not all franchises are profitable....
> 
> So what could a franchise offer if there is no safe gaurd to going under...??


 
their nationally known name and logo..

thats about it:laughing::yes:


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## Mr.Preferable (Jun 7, 2011)

Let me see if I can respond to all the valid points. As far as the scripture reads you could make an argument either way. I don’t quote scripture, I'm a plumber. God gave me the skills to be a plumber. If this were a country or world that accepted barter as a regular form of payment then I suppose I could give my work away (as you do I supposed). But as a Franchise owner I have been given the information and the help to find what is and is not profitable. I know what I need to make an hour to make money not just break even. I wouldn't under cut another mans job by simply cutting my cost just to take the work. In fact I often tell my customer when they can find it for cheaper do. But look at what they offer. License, Insurance, warranty, background check, and tools most plumbers don't have.

Being part of a franchise you’re not just buying a logo and name, your buying a system. McDonalds and Subways and Olive Garden, these are all franchises. I’m sure you’ve been to good ones and bad. It all depends on their system and there owner. If and Olive Garden owner opts to use plastic utensils it will most definitely show negatively against the restaurant. So my point is it will depend largely on how much of the system they work and how much they try their own thing. I also have a large group of people who have a common goal and interest in mind. The biggest difference between them and you is that they all saw the same presentation and saw the benefits. I imagine that most of you if you have ever formally looked into a franchise didn’t see the benefits or didn’t care. Most one shop plumbers want to be their own man. No one to tell them what to do. As a franchise owner I have that too. I just have about 200 other people telling me that what their doing is working for them. My franchise I’m with has been pretty good at helping navigate these tricky times during the worst recession of our time. The fact that I’m still self employed is a testament to me and my franchise. I know what I was doing before would not have kept me self employed for very long. I will admit though there are some franchises out there that I despise.

I’m not on here to push my franchise, in fact I won’t use their name. I’m definitely not here to bash any of you for not joining one. My question was to the matter of your experience if any with one. I would also like to share some of my plumbing knowledge in respect to what it’s worth.

If I have found my way into a forum that is not open minded and not willing to share with a franchise owner than I will remove myself and pardon my intrusion.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Mr.Preferable said:


> My question was to the matter of your experience if any with one.


There are a few here that have...

I'm sure the'll talk about it at some point... :yes:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*fraincise information*



Mr.Preferable said:


> Let me see if I can respond to all the valid points. As far as the scripture reads you could make an argument either way. I don’t quote scripture, I'm a plumber. God gave me the skills to be a plumber. If this were a country or world that accepted barter as a regular form of payment then I suppose I could give my work away (as you do I supposed). But as a Franchise owner I have been given the information and the help to find what is and is not profitable. I know what I need to make an hour to make money not just break even. I wouldn't under cut another mans job by simply cutting my cost just to take the work. In fact I often tell my customer when they can find it for cheaper do. But look at what they offer. License, Insurance, warranty, background check, and tools most plumbers don't have.
> 
> Being part of a franchise you’re not just buying a logo and name, your buying a system. McDonalds and Subways and Olive Garden, these are all franchises. I’m sure you’ve been to good ones and bad. It all depends on their system and there owner. If and Olive Garden owner opts to use plastic utensils it will most definitely show negatively against the restaurant. So my point is it will depend largely on how much of the system they work and how much they try their own thing. I also have a large group of people who have a common goal and interest in mind. The biggest difference between them and you is that they all saw the same presentation and saw the benefits. I imagine that most of you if you have ever formally looked into a franchise didn’t see the benefits or didn’t care. Most one shop plumbers want to be their own man. No one to tell them what to do. As a franchise owner I have that too. I just have about 200 other people telling me that what their doing is working for them. My franchise I’m with has been pretty good at helping navigate these tricky times during the worst recession of our time. The fact that I’m still self employed is a testament to me and my franchise. I know what I was doing before would not have kept me self employed for very long. I will admit though there are some franchises out there that I despise.
> 
> ...


 
considering these times, I would guess that most franchises are struggling probably worse in some ways than small one or two man shops... Their are a few here that belong to some organizations and will chime in eventually...

I personally would like to hear how they do it...

I do know of a few franchises here in town that are probably spending well over 30k alone in advertiseing a month in the yellow pages... 

dont quote scripture to me and I will be happy to listen:laughing:


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## Mr.Preferable (Jun 7, 2011)

Master Mark

I checked out your video and quickly realized i need to clear my calendar for an afternoon. But I will. real interesting stuff.

As Far as franchises struggling. yes they all are but I'd say everyone is. the biggest difference there is that we have a few more bills to pay than the smaller shop without the franchise and advertising cost. This might be why smaller shops feel like we are ripping off the customer when they see our quotes vs their own. again it should fall back to a pricing structure related to overhead and a balance sheet. This is why most franchises have flat rate pricing, to keep their guys from price gouging. I'm not saying they wont still try, this is where it comes to the owner and management to make sure they operate smart and in the interest of client and the shop. Thanks for your input.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I am an avid bible student and if people quote scripture that's fine with me...:thumbsup:. 

The bible says, "A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, and yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, nor his offspring looking for bread." -Psalms 37:25. I do believe that.

Some will ridicule one for accepting the scriptures as God's inspired word, but then they ridiculed God's son, Jesus also.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*What video??*



Mr.Preferable said:


> Master Mark
> 
> I checked out your video and quickly realized i need to clear my calendar for an afternoon. But I will. real interesting stuff.
> 
> Thanks for your input.


What video are you talking about...the one that yellow pages made of me for yellowpages.com?? That was fun to do, and had my wife and daughter in it.too....


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Franchises tend to not be particularly profitable around here because there are just too many unlicensed one man bands operating out of a 96 Honda Civic and cutting everyone's price by half again.


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## Mr.Preferable (Jun 7, 2011)

Master Mark
No Not that one, all though I wouldn't mind checking it out too. The one under your tag line at the bottom of each post.


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## Mr.Preferable (Jun 7, 2011)

Nhmaster

That is true just about all over. we as a franchise have developed a "target customer" and we market to those customers heavily. One of our marketing solutions is to point out that an unlicensed uninsured "handy man" can hurt him self while on your property and the home owner can be held liable. Yes the handy man can sue you! It goes along ways towards helping them to make up their minds.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Mr.Preferable said:


> Nhmaster
> 
> That is true just about all over. we as a franchise have developed a "target customer" and we market to those customers heavily. One of our marketing solutions is to point out that an unlicensed uninsured "handy man" can hurt him self while on your property and the home owner can be held liable. Yes the handy man can sue you! It goes along ways towards helping them to make up their minds.


Some members on here target seniors as customers...

I cant see why anybody would want to spend money advertising about handy man... if a handy man is hurting your franchise that bad then there is much bigger problems..... or maybe your target customers prefer handy men.. God only knows...

I think your time and money would be better spent on advertising what makes your company different from your real competion... Such as Service... after sales relations.... promotioms..... warranty and things like that...

Advertising should be postitive


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

Mr.Preferable said:


> Nhmaster
> 
> That is true just about all over. we as a franchise have developed a "target customer" and we market to those customers heavily. One of our marketing solutions is to point out that an unlicensed uninsured "handy man" can hurt him self while on your property and the home owner can be held liable. Yes the handy man can sue you! It goes along ways towards helping them to make up their minds.


Um you can sue them also, if they are aware of a danger like let's say a loose step and they don't tell you and you fall and can't get up you can sue. Your just inventing a scare tactic and implying that your not allowed to sue them because your insured that's B.S. and you know it or did the franchise tell you what to say and you just follow the script


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

By the way I am in no means against franchises I hope one day to start my own


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> Um you can sue them also, if they are aware of a danger like let's say a loose step and they don't tell you and you fall and can't get up you can sue. Your just inventing a scare tactic and implying that your not allowed to sue them because your insured that's B.S. and you know it or did the franchise tell you what to say and you just follow the script


 
sure they could sue the handyhack

they might win his 96 honda. :laughing:


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

The way I was taught anyone can sue just about anyone else dead or alive but that just be the way it works here


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

Mr Rooter has been thru birmingham 6 times (different owners) that I know of ,maybe a couple more??? Roto had a guy come here just after ww2 after he retired in late 70s early 80s?, the home office took over, BF is here too not sure how he is doing?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Charging a high rate just because you(not pointing at anyone, just making a example) chose to out grow yourself does not make it right. High overhead is your own fault, not the customers.


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## bjones (Sep 6, 2010)

Mr.Preferable said:


> I've been on here a few times reading post from members on and off for a few years. I tonight decided to become a member in hopes I could get some honest opinions about Franchises and what there pros and cons are. I'm a master plumber and honestly a franchise owner. i may be a bit bias but I can share some things that make us all more successfulness. With out the franchise I am a great plumber. I am not a great business man. and to be honest i see that in a few of the members here too. Great plumbers but short sighted on what their cost are for their business. I have a long since moto that "this isn't plumbing for Jesus". I have a Christan faith and still I believe he and our father gave me the presence of mind to run a business successfully without having to be charitable to the point I have a negative balance sheet. In my franchise I pick my rates based upon my cost and overhead. in talking with my local small one and two man shows they rarely know what their operating expenses are much less are they profitable.
> 
> So the reason for the question is not for me to look down upon the independent man its more for me to help gauge weather or not i want to stay with it. You see i too know the value of an independent and where it can go or not. its more for me to bring to the surface those who have had experiences with a franchise and what they learned. What you would do different or the same. would you change a thing? Just a curiosity that I would love some good debate on for the benefit of all.
> 
> Thanks


I've been in business for 25 years (31 employees, 5M/yr at a 10 net) and can tell you there is no difference between running a franchise or independent business. NONE

If you can run a successful franchise you can run your own independent successful business. If you can run your own successful independent business you can run a successful franchise.

The business skill sets one needs are necessary to be successful in both and they have nothing to do with how good a plumber you are.

Even though a franchise business model has the "brand", as well all the systems and processes neatly packaged and turn-key for running a profitable business it is not going to necessarily make someone successful. Unless you possess the entrepreneurial spirit, understanding and necessary business skills for running a successful business you will fail. 

And, if you do possess those skills you won't necessarily want to run a franchise (at least not the trades franchises) because you won't want to share a percentage of your gross sales with corporate for something you can do on your own

One last point: Ones plumbing skills (or electrical, HVAC, hamburger flipping, hair styling, etc.) is not going to make you successful in business no matter how good you are at doing it.

Until one takes off the tool belt and does only the things that are required to run a successful business you will fail with the franchise or independent business.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Thats right to run a buisness ... you have to be a buisness man and think like one


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Will said:


> Charging a high rate just because you(not pointing at anyone, just making a example) chose to out grow yourself does not make it right. High overhead is your own fault, not the customers.


If your overhead is legitimate business expenses who should be paying it then?

Just because one company wants to trade in vehicles every couple of years instead of driving one that is 15-20 years old. Who should pay that expense?

What about 100% family paid health insurance premiums?

How about training, new tools, uniforms (instead t-shirts advertsing who knows what) and stained/ripped blue jeans, etc..

What I don't understand is that why do some plumbers b---- and moan about why some companies charge more than they do, when all they have to do is raise their price to increase their profits. I wonder if they would complain then.

The way I look at it is if one company can charge $50 an hour, why doesn't the $10 an hour raise their prices or is it truly that they think that company is overcharging or is it the mentality that they are only worth $10 an hour? I vote for the latter.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Quote worth re-quoting....


bjones said:


> Ones plumbing skills (or electrical, HVAC, hamburger flipping, hair styling, etc.) is not going to make you successful in business no matter how good you are at doing it.
> 
> Until one takes off the tool belt and does only the things that are required to run a successful business you will fail with the franchise or independent business.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> If your overhead is legitimate business expenses who should be paying it then?
> 
> *What makes it legitimate? Is it legitimate for banks to loan out money to families that can't afford it in the 1st place? Or is it legitimate to out live your means? Just because you own a plumbing business, doesn't mean you get a 500K plumbing shop, 10 vans, and the latest tools for each one of your plumbers. You have to earn that. Some companies do, others are just outliving themselves. *
> 
> ...


*Again you have to turn a profit. I think most business owners know how to turn a profit. That's easy. What is hard is doing the sacrifices it takes to be a successful, yet legitimate company. *


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> Don't start getting employees tell you can afford them. If you can't afford them, then get out there and do the work yourself. I worked for alot of companies before going out on my own, and not one of them paid 100% heath insurance. You want that, you work for the state.


So are you saying that the only workers that work hard enough and have such difficult tasks as to deserve that benefit are government employees? Just because that is the environment you were in does necessarily make it right. And where do you think the state gets the money for the benefits? Did the Governor pay for it out of his pocket? No, it comes from the consumers of the services.

The fair price is the most a person will pay and still believe they got their money's worth. If that price is also high enough to provide a higher quality of life and work environment for the Professional Plumber then how is that a bad thing?

By the hundreds of thousands, consumers pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars each to watch a two hour sporting event. Bench players in the NBA are making $20,000 + to play just a few minutes (if at all). Is that OK? Of course it is because the price was fair. It was the most the customer would pay and still feel they got their money's worth. Each of the players were also in a clean uniform and have 100% health coverage. And NONE of them work as hard as you! Do you think there would be Nicholson seats if the Lakers wore cutoffs and tee shirts?

There is of course a balance to be reached and market forces are at play. But just because we work like dogs doesn't mean we have look like pigs.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> So are you saying that the only workers that work hard enough and have such difficult tasks as to deserve that benefit are government employees? Just because that is the environment you were in does necessarily make it right. And where do you think the state gets the money for the benefits? Did the Governor pay for it out of his pocket? No, it comes from the consumers of the services.
> 
> The fair price is the most a person will pay and still believe they got their money's worth. If that price is also high enough to provide a higher quality of life and work environment for the Professional Plumber then how is that a bad thing?
> 
> ...


This may be true for service work.... but it does not hold water for construction...


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> This may be true for service work.... but it does not hold water for construction...


Here's a fun question: why is that the case? Why does it have to be thst way? I have a few theories.

1) gcs want to make all the profit so you have to give yours up to them.

2) Plumbers are not clever and when trying to win gc work revert to price dropping instead of quality service to get the job.In other words, the lowest loser "wins" the job.

3) theory 2) lead the trade to be perceived as a commodity (like fuel, or precious metals) where the "going rate" prevails, and not a "service" where the better you are the more one is willing to pay.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Will said:


> Charging a high rate just because you(not pointing at anyone, just making a example) chose to out grow yourself does not make it right. High overhead is your own fault, not the customers.


If the "high rate" ,as you put it, is supported with high level of service people are willing to pay for it. Higher level of service usualy costs more to deliver than lower level. That's just a fact. 

Some people will settle for porridge if that's what most are serving, but are more than happy to pay for a nice steak.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

NBA players make what they do because of the demand they drawl. That is whole other topic. 

We could talk forever about about the problems with government, so wont go there.

Don't misunderstand me on making a profit. I don't have a problem with charging high rates, just poker faced companies.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> This may be true for service work.... but it does not hold water for construction...


Very true OS but that doesn't make it right. I believe there to be one major reason....

New construction is a different type of business model all together. No work or service is being performed for or in sight of the person paying for it. That in and of itself changes everything.

It seems this is largely a bed made by the new construction subs that pander to GC's so now they must lie in it. I don't ever see a time when that momentum will change since there always seems to be plumbers willing to sacrifice dollars to gain pennies.

Of course this is just my opinion, not necessarily true in all cases.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Will said:


> *Again you have to turn a profit. I think most business owners know how to turn a profit. That's easy. What is hard is doing the sacrifices it takes to be a successful, yet legitimate company. *


and who pays tht profit? I would venture to say the client is going to pay it anyway you look at it.

How do you pay for uniforms, employees, upkeep on a 15 year old vehicle, insurance, etc.. Out of personal funds? 

If you think you are paying for it out of pocket and the only income that you have is from your business then you are sadly mistaken.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Very true OS but that doesn't make it right. I believe there to be one major reason....
> 
> New construction is a different type of business model all together. No work or service is being performed for or in sight of the person paying for it. That in and of itself changes everything.
> 
> ...


Very true Biz... service and construction is two different animals altogether....

Construction is done in a way to lower cost and give the bare mininum.... no bells and no whistles....

Service is about up selling.... better products and all bells and whistles...

A plumbing company doing just construction doesn't even need an AD in the phone book... they dont even need lettering on their trucks... their overhead is low and their volume is high..both in $ and jobs

A plumbing company only doing service... has to advertise .. has to spend extra money on the appearance of the company to win their customers... so I would say their over head is high.... their jobs are smaller so you need many customers..... its and endless circle.... of spending to get that next customer.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> NBA players make what they do because of the demand they drawl. That is whole other topic....


It really is a relevant illustration. People pay top dollar for the the NBA game but will never pay much to watch a pick up game in the park. Why? Because they aren't getting anything for their money.

In principle this applies to service businesses as well. I am not suggesting that companies have to charge $500 per hour and all plumbers be in neckties driving a Cadillac. But there is something to be said for a professional personal appearance, well maintained vehicle, and well maintained tools. And these things are not free.

For some this means spending money on a newer vehicle and being on the road with less risk of having downtime from unexpected problems. Still others prefer to have an older vehicle and spend the money maintaining it in hopes that the maintenance will cost less than a new truck. That balance has to be sought after individually.

Professional image is often what we make of it. Your truck for instance gives a great professional appearance and it is not brand new and I would be proud to partner with you on a job with my customers. On the other hand, I have seen guys in newer vehicles than yours that I wouldn't let anywhere near my customers. 

Either way the customer has to pay for both. A business owner does not have money in his pocket to pay for anything if a customer didn't pay him first.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> and who pays tht profit? I would venture to say the client is going to pay it anyway you look at it.
> 
> How do you pay for uniforms, employees, upkeep on a 15 year old vehicle, insurance, etc.. Out of personal funds?
> 
> If you think you are paying for it out of pocket and the only income that you have is from your business then you are sadly mistaken.


I'd agree with you on your first comment. Your right the customer does pay for it indirectly. 

To answer your second comment. Basically by making smart choices on a daily basis in your life(not just in your business.) Pretty simple, for the most part spend less then you take in. I do understand at some point you will have to take risk. High risk, high reward stuff that could accelerate your growth faster. Knowing when and when not to do that is what separates successful people from the people just getting by. 

To answer your 3 comment. I have many other things in my life that brings in money besides Plumbing. Real Estate is the main one for me. Learning how to take what you got and make it more is something I understand completely.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Will said:


> To answer your 3 comment. I have many other things in my life that brings in money besides Plumbing. Real Estate is the main one for me. Learning how to take what you got and make it more is something I understand completely.


So you have other income to fall back on, but could each stand on it's own without backup? I would hope they could, but if they couldn't the funds could be there to keep one or the other afloat.

Which were you into first? Plumbing or Real Estate? Which of the profits from one funded the others? 

What do you say to others that may not have additional income? Where should the money come from to fund growth if not from the clients?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> So you have other income to fall back on, but could each stand on it's own without backup? I would hope they could, but if they couldn't the funds could be there to keep one or the other afloat.
> 
> Which were you into first? Plumbing or Real Estate? Which of the profits from one funded the others?
> 
> What do you say to others that may not have additional income? Where should the money come from to fund growth if not from the clients?



Having a back up plain is just a smart thing to have. Everyone should have one. I can even fall back on my wife's income if needed. 

I guess you misunderstand what I wrote or I wrote something in a vague way, but I never said growth should not come from the customer. In our business it has too. I did say charging a high rate just because someone took too big of a bite of the apple is wrong imo. And I'm not pointing at you, just using some how your comments as examples. 

I believe in hard work pays off. I also believe in the snow ball effect( at a slow and steady pace).


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Will said:


> Having a back up plain is just a smart thing to have. Everyone should have one. I can even fall back on my wife's income if needed.
> 
> I guess you misunderstand what I wrote or I wrote something in a vague way, but I never said growth should not come from the customer. In our business it has too. I did say charging a high rate just because someone took too big of a bite of the apple is wrong imo. And I'm not pointing at you, just using some how your comments as examples.
> 
> I believe in hard work pays off. I also believe in the snow ball effect( at a slow and steady pace).


 

I don't have a problem using us as an example, but what one thinks is a big bite may not be to another.


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## Mr.Preferable (Jun 7, 2011)

Wow this subject took off. Some great points made and some differences as basic as Democrat and Republican. I’d like to respond to some points.

retired rooter


> r Mr Rooter has been thru birmingham 6 times (different owners) that I know of ,maybe a couple more??? Roto had a guy come here just after ww2 after he retired in late 70s early 80s?, the home office took over, BF is here too not sure how he is doing?


How many franchises that have come and gone are only notable to the fact that they are way more advertised than the independent shops that didn’t advertise that have come and gone. Sadly sometimes the only way I know their gone is when they themselves or their family is selling the tools and affects.

BJONES


> If you can run a successful franchise you can run your own independent successful business. If you can run your own successful independent business you can run a successful franchise.


This is true to some effect. Here is the problem I have with your statement. You do not necessarily come out of the womb with this skill of business. And as one of your fellow forum member messaged me. He looks at this as a form of business school while on the job. Yes you need to transition from plumber to owner/business man. But you don’t half to re-invent the wheel on the way to the office. 

Construction VS Repair
Oldschool


> service and construction is two different animals altogether....
> 
> Construction is done in a way to lower cost and give the bare mininum.... no bells and no whistles....
> 
> Service is about up selling.... better products and all bells and whistles...



Construction VS Repair.
Unfortunately OS you are correct in the fact that this is the common way of thinking when it comes to bidding construction work. Plbgbiz I think is also right in considering that this will change in the near future. Customers are becoming aware of the term “Planned Obsolescence”. So those who still owe a bank not are not to happy to find out that everything in their home/business will need to be replaced sooner or later (mostly sooner). In evidence of this I have taken it upon my self to share my quote with all of the GC bidding on the job that I am interested in. I then follow up that quote to the GC’s with a Numberless quote to the Client purposing the build. In this quote I specify Material and WARRANTY on the items. Yes you guessed it, when the job is awarded it often times it is specified to include my numbers instead of the cheaper ones in order to accommodate their needs. The costs are nominal to inferior products and the customer knows it!

The Backup Plan
It’s always a great idea for your personal security. I don’t know a CPA in the country that would say it’s a great security for your other ventures. Each has their own balance sheet and each should stand on their own. And there can be personal and business risk at mixing the monies.

Sorry about the length.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Mr.Preferable said:


> Wow this subject took off. Some great points made and some differences as basic as Democrat and Republican. I&#146;d like to respond to some points.
> 
> retired rooter
> 
> ...


It's all good man, we are use to reading PCs novels.... So this one I actually read its entire length 


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