# island sink



## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Island sink


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

How does an island sink end up on a wall? :blink:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

^^^^^^^What he said.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Redwood said:


> How does an island sink end up on a wall? :blink:


When its not a island sink?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

No access to the unit straight above the sink would be my guess...


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I was just wondering why you didn't use a Partition/Fixture Cross?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Just curious, whats up with the 6 copper stub outs?


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

What a nice,neat job of making a mess!


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

You can't see it but the wall ends at the top and does not reach the ceiling.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Mpls Jay said:


> What a nice,neat job of making a mess!


???


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

house plumber said:


> Just curious, whats up with the 6 copper stub outs?


Looping RPZ for ice machine, and a DCVA for the coffee maker underneath sink. Also there will be an "insta-hot," trap primer for hub drain. One stub out on right is the condensate for IM


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> I was just wondering why you didn't use a Partition/Fixture Cross?


For which part?


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

How exactly is that vented? Wouldn't fly in ontariario...


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

d78coots said:


> For which part?


 For the two drain stub-outs.


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

The picture show BC code, I believe the image is the same in the national code book. The loop is installed in the counter space not in the wall.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Wow! That is definitely not in the ON codebook, I will have to check that out in my PDF NPC.

Thanks for letting me know!


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

U666A said:


> Wow! That is definitely not in the ON codebook, I will have to check that out in my PDF NPC.
> 
> Thanks for letting me know!


 I'm hip. I learn something new nearly every time I log in to this ****e. 

All for the better, I might add.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> For the two drain stub-outs.


We're not allowed to use that fitting here. Plus I need the hub drain too be as low as possible. Stacking would not have accomplished that. It would have been too low with the nine inch ADA kickplate underneath sink.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Greenguy said:


> The picture show BC code, I believe the image is the same in the national code book. The loop is installed in the counter space not in the wall.


Which I see all the time in residential; however, look at the attached layout I sent above. Dishwasher to the left and undercounter microwave to the right. With the wall; I can go above flood level rim. And that's legal here. UPC code. As long as there I'd s cleanout on drainage side of loop; and one cleanout on vent riser twenty feet max from island.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

d78coots said:


> You can't see it but the wall ends at the top and does not reach the ceiling.


Top of the picture I meant. Eight foot wall. Ten foot ceiling.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Greenguy said:


> The picture show BC code, I believe the image is the same in the national code book. The loop is installed in the counter space not in the wall.


Interesting. We're alot more stringent here. Seems your code is based on IPC. They give us UPC here. The loop must be made with eighth bends here, not quarterbends, etc., etc.


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

Ours don't say **** about material I could use 2" soft copper and bend it into shape for the top loop If I wanted. The other thing they let us do for commerial sinks out here is use cheater vents.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

2 things,


Is that vent serving the island sink, is that a wet vent being utilized by another fixture? That's the only time I can see a wet vent being utilized and serve its purpose well, because when island sinks clog, the vent always clog. ALWAYS.

And you find that out by the frequency of how often it clogs soon thereafter in time. It's because that flat vent heading towards vertical even though it should be non-waste, was full of solids at the point of malfunction, nothing to clean it. 

If your code states cleanout on the upright at the vent in the wall further away, will anyone know to clean it from that vantage point?


Second,


Given that is sitting over a parking garage, how come that isn't spec'd for copper or cast? It would seem fire hazard would keep any penetrations to metallic piping given vehicles below are part of that consideration.

Most times in those designs I've always seen metallic piping where living space exists above an area where vehicles exist in commercial.


Plus I stole that roll of copper out of the picture. Fetched $100 scrap! :laughing:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I see pvc in parking garages under condos all the time. They make collapseable fire collars for pvc.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> 2 things,
> 
> Is that vent serving the island sink, is that a wet vent being utilized by another fixture? That's the only time I can see a wet vent being utilized and serve its purpose well, because when island sinks clog, the vent always clog. ALWAYS.
> 
> ...


Hehe. Actually, the whole building is plastic. Water is cpvc, dwv is Plenum wrapped PVC.

Notice the big PVC storm drain / overflow piping in the garage.

I think its based on the classification of the building. The sink is for a breakroom. Building is all offices. I'm not a fire protection expert. Dunno.

As for the vent, it only serves the sink and the hub drain off the "h" fitting.

And for God sakes, if a plumber does not know where to snake for an island sink, then they are better off as a sandwich artist.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Greenguy said:


> Ours don't say **** about material I could use 2" soft copper and bend it into shape for the top loop If I wanted. The other thing they let us do for commerial sinks out here is use cheater vents.


Cheater vents and 2" soft copper? wow. 

What's it like in the land of milk and honey?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

d78coots said:


> Hehe. Actually, the whole building is plastic. Water is cpvc, dwv is Plenum wrapped PVC.
> 
> Notice the big PVC storm drain / overflow piping in the garage.
> 
> ...


 
In bold print, 

That's why it's not spec'd for metallic. If you would of mentioned that in the beginning it removes the reason for asking.


The cleanout I mentioned for location is at the turn of vertical for the flat vent you installed that we all know clogs up on an island sink. Plumbers thinking it magically slurries back out isn't true. That's why codes in KY won't allow flat vents and the vents must be not greater than 45 degrees under 42" ie top of highest fixture. There are many sandwich artists calling themselves plumbers thinking flat vents don't close up over time when island sinks continually clog. And I'm sure they'll put a disposal into the equation to compound the issue. 


I'm the guy who has to clean these setups with the cleanouts below being as useless as ti.ts on a fish because it's concealed in a finished ceiling. But those that are not,


You can shake the flat vent and you'll tell by the weight and the sagging that the waste is sitting in there sealing off the vent.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> In bold print,
> 
> That's why it's not spec'd for metallic. If you would of mentioned that in the beginning it removes the reason for asking.
> 
> ...


Damn. Just wanted to show some pictures of a major puzzle I had to solve. 

The cleanout for an island sink vent is going to be on a wall no less than twenty feet away. UPC. Whoopdee doo. 

There is a reason for everything in the pictures. Its built to the Plumbing code.

Too much negativity in PZ. Bye.


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## copperhead (Dec 26, 2009)

Is that a 2" 90 laying on it's side after the 22 and a half. Isn't that a change in direction without a cleanout ?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

> If your code states cleanout on the upright at the vent in the wall further away, will anyone know to clean it from that vantage point?


 Well, if they finished their full apprenticeship, sat for their Journeyman's exam and passed it, then they better know there's going to be a C/O on the foot vent.

This is a nice, clean looking job -- And from the looks of it, he even upsized the foot vent one pipe size larger than he needed to, which means he went out of his way to provide a full sized C/O for future drain cleaning.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

> I'm the guy who has to clean these setups with the cleanouts below being as useless as ti.ts on a fish because it's concealed in a finished ceiling. But those that are not,


 He has a full sized 2" C/O just below the 2"x1-1/2" San-Tee -- The clean out below the floor, while still required by the UPC, is redundant.

We know these foot vent systems are going to plug up, which is why they are approved for use only in island sink situations and is also why we provide no less than three means of snaking the line when it becomes necessary to do so.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

copperhead said:


> Is that a 2" 90 laying on it's side after the 22 and a half. Isn't that a change in direction without a cleanout ?


 The change in direction is only 112.5 degrees.

A C/O isn't required unless the change in direction exceeds 135 degrees.


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## d78coots (Mar 30, 2009)

Finished product.


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## rvaughnp (Nov 19, 2009)

Good job. And you are right regardless of others disagreeing with how it is installed... as long as you installed it to code... you did it correctly. 
I agree to an extent of the flat vent issue. But, he wasn't asking wether flat vents work or not.
Guys, keep in mind, we can all second guess anyone’s work on any given installation and beat it to death. Codes are codes but it is the inspector interpreting that code on that job that we have to please. 
Keep up the good work, d78coots.


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## Chief Inspector (Apr 28, 2011)

*Chief Inspector*

The Cast Iron Handbook shows the use of the pictured piping as a "loop vent" in an old edition I once read. Keeps the trap seal from siphoning but nothing else and a lot of work...might as well use the illusive *drum trap*. I know!! they are not permitted in most codes but you all must know that anti-siphon traps called "universal traps" are used extensively in acid waste systems and special waste systems. If you can't vent it...put an anti-siphon trap on it and it will work forever (no moving parts).:yes:

Interestingly, in the 20 years I spent in the field, I cleaned a lot of drain lines and with the exception of a toothbrush, cleaning rags and coins, I never had to clean a sink drum or anti-siphon trap (they siphon themselves clean while keeping a large water seal...like the siphon trap on all water closets).


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Chief Inspector said:


> The Cast Iron Handbook shows the use of the pictured piping as a "loop vent" in an old edition I once read. Keeps the trap seal from siphoning but nothing else and a lot of work...might as well use the illusive drum trap. I know!! they are not permitted in most codes but you all must know that anti-siphon traps called "universal traps" are used extensively in acid waste systems and special waste systems. If you can't vent it...put an anti-siphon trap on it and it will work forever (no moving parts).:yes:
> 
> Interestingly, in the 20 years I spent in the field, I cleaned a lot of drain lines and with the exception of a toothbrush, cleaning rags and coins, I never had to clean a sink drum or anti-siphon trap (they siphon themselves clean while keeping a large water seal...like the siphon trap on all water closets).


He piped it correctly IMO. Figures after all that work the inspector would come and say to just use a drum trap.....lol


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

D78 Coots, job looks good. I love re-models. Curved wall was cool. Hope you made a dollar or two on that job.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> D78 Coots, job looks good. I love re-models. Curved wall was cool. Hope you made a dollar or two on that job.


 I think it's brilliant.


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

Looks good, but I would have eliminated some fittings and piped it like this. Finished product looks great.


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