# Toilet flange



## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Wat you gu*s do when install a new toilet and see flange is broke or flange is below floor


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Install a new flange


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

It depends on what is there and what's wrong with it...

A rusted out steel flange on ABS or PVC I'll use an Oatey Moss Bay replacement ring...

Too low I'll use spacer rings....

Cast Iron there are a few different things I might do depending on how it is busted...


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Look at the Sioux Chief # 888PM Glues inside 3" pipe ,, LLLOOONNNGGGG tail in case you need it or can be cut off .

For c.i. ,,, hard to say . Most times break it out , yarn & lead in new .


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

I do the same how do u install spacer I use half moons on cast wat do u use


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

WHATEVER i have to make it right . Ya know how we have to improvise all the time ..


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Cal said:


> Look at the Sioux Chief # 888PM Glues inside 3" pipe ,, LLLOOONNNGGGG tail in case you need it or can be cut off .


I see that as non code compliant if it goes inside 3" pipe...


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Cal said:


> Look at the Sioux Chief # 888PM Glues inside 3" pipe ,, LLLOOONNNGGGG tail in case you need it or can be cut off .
> 
> For c.i. ,,, hard to say . Most times break it out , yarn & lead in new .


I've seen the Sioux Chief ones that are gasketed and fit inside a 3" pipe. No way I'd use one of those as they're nearly the same size as 2" pipe. Are the glue in ones any better?






Paul


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

They are larger I.d. Than the outlet of the wc. And the plastic horn on a bowl wax.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Lead and oakum I have heard of never seen or done how's that work


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## AllAces777 (Nov 23, 2010)

Theres really only 1 way to fix it, install a new flange. Now what kind of flange you use will be quite the pickle! 

I would chip the concrete up around the flange, cut the old one out and get a new full sized flange. If its plastic pipe, use a glue flange, if its cast, use a no hub band, use a grinder to clean up the pipe.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> They are larger I.d. Than the outlet of the wc. And the plastic horn on a bowl wax.


Correct but isn't 3" the minimum ID pipe for a water closet?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Cal said:


> ...For c.i. ,,, hard to say . Most times break it out , yarn & lead in new .


:thumbup:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

revenge said:


> Lead and oakum I have heard of never seen or done how's that work


...


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

I came into plumbing (76)just as Lead was out here so I've never done the lead gig but feel it is surely the best fix on CI. None the less I use the Oatey repair flange which slips right inside the CI pipe and is tightened up. I then anchor it into the floor be it concrete or wood. PVC or abs is generally repaired easily enough with a variety of flanges or the split ring which slides in where the metal ring was, depending on the situation.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Correct but isn't 3" the minimum ID pipe for a water closet?


I feel the same way Red... But at Mohawk College in Stoney Creek, Ontario... They had a toilet cut in half cross-sectionally. When the diameter of the trapway was measured, it proved to be just a hair better than 2"...


Again, my code says on a handful of places about "no reduction in size..." etc., but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do right?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

U666A said:


> I feel the same way Red... But at Mohawk College in Stoney Creek, Ontario... They had a toilet cut in half cross-sectionally. When the diameter of the trapway was measured, it proved to be just a hair better than 2"...
> 
> 
> Again, my code says on a handful of places about "no reduction in size..." etc., but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do right?


Well, I can honestly say that I've repaired/replaced a couple of flanges now...:laughing:

And I haven't gone that route yet nor am I planning on it....


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Well, I can honestly say that I've repaired/replaced a couple of flanges now...:laughing:
> 
> And I haven't gone that route yet nor am I planning on it....


 There is always a way to maintain the full size of a trap arm.

The only limits to an imaginative solution are the limits you place on your imagination.


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Duct tape, silicone caulk and drywall screws.

Or putty, if you're into that kind of thing.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Who needs flanges, just bolt the bowl to the floor.:thumbup:


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> Who needs flanges, just bolt the bowl to the floor.:thumbup:


 
It worked like that for 50 years, why can't you put it back the way that it was?


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

That #888 Sioux Chief looks pretty good. I have some of the shorter glue-ins and the only thing about them that I don't like is that it's a loose fit.

I usually use the ones with the vinyl seal on them. I really like the SS flange on them.

Obviously, the flanges with steel rims were a bad idea.

But there are a lot of challenges when replacing a flange. Sometimes, there's an ancient lead bend and no access under the floor. Anything can be done if there's enough money, but lately there isn't enough money anywhere around here. I'm starting to get turned down on overly-reasonable (too cheap!) pricing.

I often see toilets bolted to the floor, and the floor is nearly rotted away. But nobody wants to spend the money to do anything about it. A great many houses here are overdue for repipes but the owners will absolutely not do it.

Another flange option is to cut the pipe beneath the floor if it's accessible and replace pipe/elbow/flange. It's usually a better fix than a glue in/push in replacement. 

But I've been in jobs where I'm told to do it as cheaply as possible, which might mean a bigger lag screw on the broken side of the flange. I did one like that and came back to find that the property owner had come in and replaced floor, leaving the broken flange, and used a small screw that wouldn't hold the toilet in place. I went back on that one several times due to the idiocy of the owner and the renter, who seemed to like throw things into the toilet that wouldn't get far down the line.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

whatever you do, charge for it


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

As said, its all situational.

Did one yesterday on PVC. 3" long sweep turned up in the concrete, 4" piece of 3" with a 4x 3flange glued over that with concrete poured tight around that. Cut the top of the flange off with sawsall, cut and peeled out the 3" out the the long sweep hub. New pipe, flange and anchors, done. If the crete wasn't poured tight around the flange, I may have tried to cut the hub of the flange off of the pipe, idk.

Cast iron- I'm caulking down a new flange.

Dwv copper- if its one of those wrot copper flanges it comes out. If the pipe is in good shape, I'll unsweat it and solder on a cast brass one. If the pipe has grooves worn in it, then things change. May go back with copper, may go back with PVC. With he price of 3" copper and dwv fittings what they are, I lean a little more to PVC these days. But sometimes that isn't a good option

Lead- on a slab I'll solder on a new what we call a lead repair flange. If its accessable, underneath, I push real hard to take the lead out completely.

As with any flange replacement, proper anchoring is most important.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You laugh but I have actually pulled toilets that were done that way.




SewerRatz said:


> Who needs flanges, just bolt the bowl to the floor.:thumbup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Also, I install flanges that go inside of 3". Yes, I know it is technically against code. I do it anyway and will continue to do so in repair situations.

If it is actually a remodel or new build then I will just chip the floor around the 3" and install a new flange on the outside of the pipe.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> They are larger I.d. Than the outlet of the wc. And the plastic horn on a bowl wax.


 They are larger then any 1.6 gal WC flange i've used . However they don't work well with old style 3.5 WC . Sorry ,,, should have mentioned that earlier ,,


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

"Dwv copper- if its one of those wrot copper flanges it comes out. If the pipe is in good shape, I'll unsweat it and solder on a cast brass one"

Ya know ,,, lucky enough to not run into this too often . Tell me , if i need to change a copper second story of house , wood floor with maybe linoleum floor . How do you sweat that off & on without burning any / everything ??


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Cal said:


> "Dwv copper- if its one of those wrot copper flanges it comes out. If the pipe is in good shape, I'll unsweat it and solder on a cast brass one"
> 
> Ya know ,,, lucky enough to not run into this too often . Tell me , if i need to change a copper second story of house , wood floor with maybe linoleum floor . How do you sweat that off & on without burning any / everything ??


 
Put the torch inside the pipe. Do it quite a bit.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Put the torch inside the pipe. Do it quite a bit.


 I believe you ,,, just concerns me . Hope to not have to . THX !!


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Did this today. Changed these 2, to Toto Drakes. !st one had a brass flange, not soldered to the lead, just flattened on it. 

2nd one, no flange. the lead was rolled down upon itself. I straightened the lead up, reamed out a flange extender, and flattened the lead down on it. I put a bead of silicone under the lead at the flange. Used a wax with a horn. (For you Philly guys, Wax wid[with]). Brass WB closet screws. 

These wc's were dated 1951. The pink one was the one with no flange. It was a bowl wax, I guess the putty was replaced before:yes:. And the floor was solid as a rock. The closet screws went in tight. 

Guys gonna remodel both pretty soon anyway. Its a long long low crawlspace, and you'll notice the lav inlet in the lead riser. Wasn't worth a trip to the supply house for a brass flange, or repiping it now.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Cal said:


> I believe you ,,, just concerns me . Hope to not have to . THX !!


 
Its no problem. I squirt it all down with water. lots of it. Usually, the t & g floor boards are open, and not cut tight to the flange/pipe. Or, I'll chip away some of the wet bed, 

I have also replaced the copper out of the elbow, up to the flange. Had to dangle the torch by the hose. We get em once in a while, where they get cut clean through, from the wc running for years. Just like the Grand Canyon. We do it all from above, no opening of the ceiling below. I am never in a hurry to reset that toilet, though.


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