# shortage of plumbers



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

https://www.newsday.com/business/plumber-shortage-boomers-1.15280313


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

It’s real folks! One guy I worked with helps us out and has no interest in the trade because of our former employer. I’ve tried to get my nephew interested giving him side work, but he’s a millennial..... but that said he can haul buckets. More of a point and click worker.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I read an article recently that quoted the Federal Bureau of Labor or something like that where they predict a shortage of plumbers in this nation in the future due to young people not wanting to learn this trade.

I have {3} sons. The oldest {2} are 17 and 18 yrs old. Neither one has an interest in plumbing. The young boy is only 13. 

And I have taken my 17yr. old with me on jobs on numerous occasions. I even show him the checks that I receive. Depsite this, he told me today that he wants to be a marine biologist. I'll support him in his desire to be a Jacques Cousteau, but I really think he should learn this trade as a backup in case marine biology doesn't pan out.


----------



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

My 2 sons the oldest is not able to hold a job, and lives on SSI

the youngest did not like Plumbing but put himself though HVAC Tech. school
and worked in it a couple of years but then transferred over to building 
Cell Phone Towers, and now in the construction mgt of them,
both in their mid 40's


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

My son is only 9, so he’s never been to a job with me. He too sees how much I bring home and how much in short amounts of time on the weekends. He also only sees me dropping him off at school and never again before he goes to bed. Still too soon to say, but I asked him if he would like to work with me when he’s old enough and eventually own my business. At 9 no interest.... I don’t think he’ll be cut out for it anyway.. sad to say.


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Yep

Mine was never cut out for any construction trade. Currently working in IT tech doing decent. First real year in after college and making around $47.000 a year with benefits.


A year or two ago the International Code Council's whole year was dedicated about the need for new blood in the trades and code enforcement. The State of Illinois has not seen any real increase in new apprenticeships, while more of us are getting older and starting to think about retirement.

8 to 10 years from now it's going to be interesting. Maybe if a big pay increase finally comes it may spark more interest. Younger ones don't know about hard work.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

GAN said:


> Yep
> 
> Mine was never cut out for any construction trade. Currently working in IT tech doing decent. First real year in after college and making around $47.000 a year with benefits.
> 
> ...


The problem in my State is the dumbing down of the test. Two hours, 125 multiple choice questions, open book. I’m teetering on continuing plumbing or just drain cleaning. My thought changes day by day.

I apparently have a reputation for drain cleaning around here. Even three years on my own I get LL’s and PMC’s calling when they hear I’m on my own. So I know I have a good vested future in that side of our trade.

My Master has already told me I can take over his business, but I don’t know if I want to deal with the nightmares I see him dealing with. Outside of the capital city is no big deal, John, whose a state inspector is a good fair inspector. Within the city of Lansing the headache just isn’t worth it.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> The problem in my State is the dumbing down of the test. Two hours, 125 multiple choice questions, open book. I’m teetering on continuing plumbing or just drain cleaning. My thought changes day by day.
> 
> I apparently have a reputation for drain cleaning around here. Even three years on my own I get LL’s and PMC’s calling when they hear I’m on my own. So I know I have a good vested future in that side of our trade.
> 
> My Master has already told me I can take over his business, but I don’t know if I want to deal with the nightmares I see him dealing with. Outside of the capital city is no big deal, John, whose a state inspector is a good fair inspector. Within the city of Lansing the headache just isn’t worth it.



you should get your lisc and take over that business if the man is willing to just give it to you.... you would be a fool not to at least attempt it... he does make very good money and no one says you have to put up with the same headaches he has put himself through...........



My father was basically a glutton for punishment and would beat his brains out just to show everyone that he could do all forms of plumbing work....he might have lost his ass at half of it but he still did the work..

Now that the business is run my me, I turn down more work than I actually do because I realize that there are just some jobs you cant even break even on so you are doing them for exercise only.............

no one is gonna force me to take on jobs just to prove my manhood to everyone around me ....:no::no: 


My son is not interested at this time to get involved in this either, and I dont blame him at all... He has an uncle that works at the post office for the past 35 years and is going to retire with a good pension at 65 , 

The man would probably poke his eye out if he tried to use a screwdriver but he has a better retirement than I do....


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Here in the Lone Star State they've been saying the average age of new apprentice applicants is early to mid 40s. It seems like the newbies are guys that made a career change from something else rather than young ones. Some of these kids barely want to go outside let alone pick up a shovel.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

With Trump throwing out all the Mexicans, who are basically about the only people in this country willing to do any of the actual hard work, things are probably gonna get reallly ugly in 15 years or so....


----------



## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

I own my business and am 30 years old.

My apprentice is 24 and the best help I ever had, he is going to trade school twice a week at night and excelling on both ends.

I encourage him to do as much side work as possible and make him spend $20 a week on tools.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> you should get your lisc and take over that business if the man is willing to just give it to you.... you would be a fool not to at least attempt it... he does make very good money and no one says you have to put up with the same headaches he has put himself through...........
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Trust me, it ain’t going to be free with him. Probably 5-10% for ? Years. I’ve been holding my business back so I can help him out. He’s a good friend and only work for him because he has no other source of good help, but I can be busy enough on my own. 

I do see the profit in plumbing, the headache with the largest city we work in in the city itself. The inspector we use use to work for my Master, and according to my Master he was his best drain cleaner and worst plumber, fired for stealing.

The other inspector is a God who reads the book wrong.

It’s all about the money. Mike told us that.

We’ve been busted by meter maids patrolling replacing emergency heaters which we have 24 hours to pull permits for. Permit for a heater there is $230.


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

I have no problem with immigration, providing it is done legally with no special exceptions.


----------



## Oorgnid (Apr 5, 2016)

It’s hard because there aren’t many incentives. I’ve sometimes even thought of quitting the trade and going back to school for IT. I’ve been putting myself through hell just staying with my current employer who lends his license out to hacks and is constantly taking shortcuts just to save a few dollars. Sure he doesn’t care what name he gets, but when I look for jobs elsewhere within the field, I’m the laughing stock because of the work he does. 

Most guys hire people at 8-10 bucks an hour and make them false promises. I’ve been on that end many times. I’m now fighting a battle with city hall regarding my hours because my boss never registered me as an apprentice but told me I’d be fine. Sure not all guys do that, but it’s almost as if for every one good plumber, three bad plumbers run the track. 

Most guys give up and go elsewhere. A lot of young kids these days also have too much hope in their heads. Everyone and their cousins wants to be a graphic designer or psychologist. If I hadn’t talked to a union rep, I’d probably be going back to class. Hopefully good news comes when I go to apply on the 18th.


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

Oorgnid said:


> It’s hard because there aren’t many incentives. I’ve sometimes even thought of quitting the trade and going back to school for IT. I’ve been putting myself through hell just staying with my current employer who lends his license out to hacks and is constantly taking shortcuts just to save a few dollars. Sure he doesn’t care what name he gets, but when I look for jobs elsewhere within the field, I’m the laughing stock because of the work he does.
> 
> Most guys hire people at 8-10 bucks an hour and make them false promises. I’ve been on that end many times. I’m now fighting a battle with city hall regarding my hours because my boss never registered me as an apprentice but told me I’d be fine. Sure not all guys do that, but it’s almost as if for every one good plumber, three bad plumbers run the track.
> 
> Most guys give up and go elsewhere. A lot of young kids these days also have too much hope in their heads. Everyone and their cousins wants to be a graphic designer or psychologist. If I hadn’t talked to a union rep, I’d probably be going back to class. Hopefully good news comes when I go to apply on the 18th.


Good luck brother we're rooting for you!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Here we have the big three, as far as cost, RR being the more affordable of them. I had to tell a LL of mine recently he needed a jetter. They sold him on a dig, 8’ long... 8’ deep... $6k. My guys would’ve done it for half the price. Point being kids see what’s charged and what they are paid for what they have to do. Kids these days don’t look at what they can become if they work hard and the bounty they earn honestly. They want the payout now, not spend the busted knuckles, burns, bruises and almost lost digits to actually know what you’re doing!

My Master has a saying, “you are getting paid to lean a college education, so stop *****ing!”

To previous employees, not me... unless he gets a hair up his ass.


----------



## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

GAN said:


> Yep
> 
> Mine was never cut out for any construction trade. Currently working in IT tech doing decent. First real year in after college and making around $47.000 a year with benefits.
> 
> ...


I thought plumbers in you area did well? My son also went to school for IT and has been working solidly for a few years now.


----------



## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

OpenSights said:


> My son is only 9, so he’s never been to a job with me. He too sees how much I bring home and how much in short amounts of time on the weekends. He also only sees me dropping him off at school and never again before he goes to bed. Still too soon to say, but I asked him if he would like to work with me when he’s old enough and eventually own my business. At 9 no interest.... I don’t think he’ll be cut out for it anyway.. sad to say.


I used to bring my son with me on occasion, like doing a job for a friend. But after he graduated , I started working him pretty hard. He was helping me and going to school for IT. I figured if he saw the good things plumbing has to offer he may run with it, but he, like his 3 uncles, have no desire to do physical labor. 

I'm thankful that he seems to have a good work ethic with the things he likes to do.

I'm sure your son will pick up on your work ethics as well.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Oorgnid said:


> *I’m now fighting a battle with city hall regarding my hours* because my boss never registered me as an apprentice but told me I’d be fine. Sure not all guys do that, but it’s almost as if for every one good plumber, three bad plumbers run the track.
> 
> . If I hadn’t talked to a union rep, I’d probably be going back to class. Hopefully good news comes when I go to apply on the 18th.


 












We're all rooting for you buddy. I hope that they acknowledge your hours and give you credit.
Did you get a letter attesting to those hours worked from that boss? If not, have the ex boss sign a letter so city hall has something to go with.
Hopefully the city hall folks will call you in before their board and you'll have the chance to plead your case to them. And try to charm them.


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

89plumbum said:


> I thought plumbers in you area did well? My son also went to school for IT and has been working solidly for a few years now.


Union shops are around $27 to $32 I believe. Non-union lower 20's with the better non-union making up with insurance and a week or 2 off.


----------



## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

Sorry I contributed to the shortage by being a baby boomer and deciding to retire


----------



## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

leakfree said:


> Sorry I contributed to the shortage by being a baby boomer and deciding to retire


Haha you deserve it

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Florida Plumber (Aug 27, 2017)

Wow so many good points made about young people. Its sad to see many kids my age who as my dad calls them are lost souls, who don't want to work and are misguided about life. Another note to add I love how Mike Rowe is out there promoting the trades to the younger generations. I feel like at 27 I am heading in the right direction and I am going to stick to plumbing for some time.


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

From what I see, these kids spend their childhood in their rooms playing video games. If they get a job at all they might as well be surrounded by walls in a crappy little cubicle. I don't really see house tracts being built anymore just a bunch of condo projects so the younger generation don't have to go outside and maintain yards or their homes.


----------



## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

leakfree said:


> Sorry I contributed to the shortage by being a baby boomer and deciding to retire


The quicker you guys keel, the better funded our pension


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I don’t get union work, no offense intended. I charge $125/ for basic stuff I can do by law. True, gas, insurance, tax..............


----------



## leakfree (Apr 3, 2011)

rwh said:


> The quicker you guys keel, the better funded our pension


I intend to be around for a long time and get every damn penny that I have due me,and then my wife will get 75% of it as long as she can.


----------



## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)




----------



## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

GAN said:


> Union shops are around $27 to $32 I believe. Non-union lower 20's with the better non-union making up with insurance and a week or 2 off.


Pretty much the same around here, except good Forman’s are close to 30, non-union. We’ve been helping a union shop lately out of Atlanta, I was surprised to here they only make a few dollars more than us, with a lot less benefits.


----------



## Oorgnid (Apr 5, 2016)

89plumbum said:


> GAN said:
> 
> 
> > Union shops are around $27 to $32 I believe. Non-union lower 20's with the better non-union making up with insurance and a week or 2 off.
> ...


Union shop here starts apprentices out at 22.50. Which I believe they say you make half of the journeyman’s wages. Dunno if jmans make 45 or not but I do know for a fact they’d start me at 22.50.


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Out of my three sons 2 are apprentices and one of them is out of local 146 just finishing his first year and he is making I believe 17.00 an hour come January. My oldest is making 20 an hour and is nonunion, should be getting his license soon. Both of them work for me and do pretty well but it took some ass kicking to get the oldest one straightened up and walking the line. My 2nd son said that out of the 20 or so apprentices in his class 90 percent are older than 30, some are in their 40's, he is the youngest one at 18. My 3rd son is a Junior this year and has already started talking about going to work for me when he graduates, I'm not thrilled about my kids becoming plumbers. I always wanted them to go to college and do something else but plumbing has fed them,clothed them and housed them their whole life. They have seen me make 100k+ a year and have decided that is what they want to do. I just hope they love plumbing like I do after 20+ years, I told my 2nd son the other morning when he came in from work, that if he doesn't love his job it will be work for the rest of his life but if he can learn to love the trade it will be easier going to work everyday. Plus the money and benefits of being Union make it easier to get up everyday and get it going. I have a few apprentices that work for me that will always be apprentices because that is what they choose to be, they're better than some of my plumbers, plus cheaper hourly lol. But there is a shortage of good help, I've tried hiring union apprentices and non union apprentices here in the past few months and can't find anyone worth hiring. I know some millennials out there aren't worth a **** , but my millennials are doing just fine. Lets try not to paint the whole generation as losers when that is not the case, lets try to remember that our parents and grandparents said the same thing about our generation. Like Mike Rowe we need to get the message out there about the trades,(Mike Rowe is a great guy) and all the work available but we also have to be prepared to pay decent wages for the hard work required in our trade. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

My son is 14 and helped me for several hours Saturday night in below freezing temps. I was short 5 plumbers and he was happy to make a $100. He asks to work whenever school is out but a $100 offer and he was waiting in my van at 11pm before I could warm it up.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

justme said:


> Out of my three sons 2 are apprentices and one of them is out of local 146 just finishing his first year and he is making I believe 17.00 an hour come January. My oldest is making 20 an hour and is nonunion, should be getting his license soon. Both of them work for me and do pretty well but it took some ass kicking to get the oldest one straightened up and walking the line. My 2nd son said that out of the 20 or so apprentices in his class 90 percent are older than 30, some are in their 40's, he is the youngest one at 18. My 3rd son is a Junior this year and has already started talking about going to work for me when he graduates, I'm not thrilled about my kids becoming plumbers. I always wanted them to go to college and do something else but plumbing has fed them,clothed them and housed them their whole life. They have seen me make 100k+ a year and have decided that is what they want to do. I just hope they love plumbing like I do after 20+ years, I told my 2nd son the other morning when he came in from work, that if he doesn't love his job it will be work for the rest of his life but if he can learn to love the trade it will be easier going to work everyday. Plus the money and benefits of being Union make it easier to get up everyday and get it going. I have a few apprentices that work for me that will always be apprentices because that is what they choose to be, they're better than some of my plumbers, plus cheaper hourly lol. But there is a shortage of good help, I've tried hiring union apprentices and non union apprentices here in the past few months and can't find anyone worth hiring. I know some millennials out there aren't worth a **** , but my millennials are doing just fine. Lets try not to paint the whole generation as losers when that is not the case, lets try to remember that our parents and grandparents said the same thing about our generation. Like Mike Rowe we need to get the message out there about the trades,(Mike Rowe is a great guy) and all the work available but we also have to be prepared to pay decent wages for the hard work required in our trade. Just my 2 cents.



Thanks for sharing.... you are lucky that they want to go into plumbing......as long as they all work together good, or all find different places to work , doing plumbing t will probably work out good for all of them..... 

We got a company in town here that both brothers are getting older and they both have a couple of sons working under them already.... and of course the sons have WIVES and you know what that means...

I see them on occasion at the supply houses . 
I dont say a word and I sort of wonder what the game plan is for all of them 15 years from now... Some day what is the exit plan gonna be for them because once the old man running the show is gone, I dont know who is gonna be boss and who is gonna fall into line.....and time grinds on and on. Like I said they all have WIVES and they all want their man to be in charge.......

They all seem to be getting along great .........for now....


----------



## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Master Mark said:


> Thanks for sharing.... you are lucky that they want to go into plumbing......as long as they all work together good, or all find different places to work , doing plumbing t will probably work out good for all of them.....
> 
> We got a company in town here that both brothers are getting older and they both have a couple of sons working under them already.... and of course the sons have WIVES and you know what that means...
> 
> ...


Hopefully the older guys put a plan in place so the transition is smooth and good for everyone. I've seen this play out with other companies and people end up leaving and opening up their own company because they're not happy with the decisions of the older guys. The company I work for has 3 RMP's and I'm one of them, the older two are in their early 70's. I hope they have a game plan because the owners son doesn't have a clue, never will and doesn't want to run the entire show( I don't want to either). So I'm hoping someone has an exit plan or plans to live for another 20 years working lol.


----------

