# What we have been working on



## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

Here are some pictures of a mechanical room we have been working on.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

SPH said:


> Here are some pictures of a mechanical room we have been working on.


Oooooohhh! Nice. I haven't done one like that since 1995 (128 suite apartment - two 6" water services). I love Victaulic.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Looks like when you get above 1.5" or 2" even the "pro's" start wanting to get away from the torch:laughing:


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

nice work.


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## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Is that a 2" RPZ in the first picture, and is that a 4" stand pipe. My code says that the discharge pipe for an RPZ backflow has to be twice the diameter of the RPZ. And I keep seeing these inspectors around here letting these hacks get away with dumping it into a 2" floor drain. Drives me nuts. Anyway, nice work, very clean.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Looks like when you get above 1.5" or 2" even the "pro's" start wanting to get away from the torch:laughing:


I like to solder up to 4". Sometimes it's spec'ed as to what joints you use.


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

LEAD INGOT said:


> Is that a 2" RPZ in the first picture, and is that a 4" stand pipe. My code says that the discharge pipe for an RPZ backflow has to be twice the diameter of the RPZ. And I keep seeing these inspectors around here letting these hacks get away with dumping it into a 2" floor drain. Drives me nuts. Anyway, nice work, very clean.


All the RP's are discharged into pipe that is twice the diameter of the RP.


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

TheMaster said:


> Looks like when you get above 1.5" or 2" even the "pro's" start wanting to get away from the torch:laughing:


We do this because it is easier to service down the road :thumbsup:.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

Now THAT's a proper install.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

It looks like the BTH on the right is not piped with the other three?

Is it feeding something separate from the others? 

Very nice looking job, BTW. :thumbsup:


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

Colgar said:


> It looks like the BTH on the right is not piped with the other three?
> 
> Is it feeding something separate from the others?
> 
> Very nice looking job, BTW. :thumbsup:


The first three are for 120 appartments in a wood frame 4 storey walkup. The last one is for 7 commercial retail units attached to the building.


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## gusty60 (Oct 21, 2008)

Nice!


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## hulihan (Aug 11, 2009)

Thats my fav kind of work


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

eddiecalder said:


> The first three are for 120 appartments in a wood frame 4 storey walkup. The last one is for 7 commercial retail units attached to the building.


the tank alone is for a commercial kitchen, the 7 CRUS only have a cold water supply.


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## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

very nice job, is the discharge piping on the relief valve cpvc?


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

yes it is cpvc


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## 70bbc (Oct 30, 2009)

very nice


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

SPH said:


> Here are some pictures of a mechanical room we have been working on.


Pic #1

 No strainers on either RPZ
No unions on either RPZ
Pic #2

No unions on vent or inlet PVC piping. Manufacturer requires them.
There are valves between the expansion tank and WH's.:no:
Where does the condensate drain to? Normally these Wh's have to be elevated to have enough elevation for the manufacturer required trap seal.
Does the piping arraingment allow for WH removal? (maybe)
Pic #3

No complaints.
 Other than that, it looks fine.


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> Pic #1
> 
> No strainers on either RPZ
> not required
> ...


come on you can give me something harder than that! :whistling2:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Originally Posted by *ILPlumber*  
_Pic #1 _
_

No strainers on either RPZ
_not required
_I suppose constantly fouled checks will be good future income for ya. Whether required or not, it's just good practice._ 

No unions on either RPZ
not required
Any time a valve or regulating device is installed, there should be unions to allow for replacement or service. You need one on each side. Again, just good work practices.

Pic #2 

No unions on vent or inlet PVC piping. Manufacturer requires them.
there are mechanical couplings on both the inlet and vent acting as unions Good. You did one thing I can agree with.

There are valves between the expansion tank and WH's.:no:
that is legal here and considered baad practice not to install a valve
That's ass baackwards. 

Where does the condensate drain to? Normally these Wh's have to be elevated to have enough elevation for the manufacturer required trap seal.
drains to a trough that is yet to be completed and will have a trap seal according to tank specs.
So, will the drains off the ells be trapped individually as required? Or do you mean the trough will be vented? 

Does the piping arraingment allow for WH removal? (maybe)
oh it sure does, we took extra care to make sure each tank could be easily removed and replaced. 5 unions and the tank is out!
Better make that six! Cold, Hot, Inlet, Vent, Gas, and T&P.

Pic #3 

No complaints.
Other than that, it looks fine. 

BTW, What code do you use? I'm not familiar with Canadian codes. I would like to skim through it.

Thanks for answering my questions. I will now fall baack into lock step with the others.

Good job:thumbup: Keep up the good work.


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> Originally Posted by *ILPlumber*
> _Pic #1 _
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

To quote ILP:


_No strainers on either RPZ_
 
not required
_I suppose constantly fouled checks will be good future income for ya. Whether required or not, it's just good practice._




No unions on either RPZ
 not required
Any time a valve or regulating device is installed, there should be unions to allow for replacement or service. You need one on each side. Again, just good work practices.

Strainers and unions good practice? Absolutely. 
Not required? 
Unions, unless required by the local jurisdiction or provided for on the plans, no. 
Strainers? This depends on existing conditions and/or the local jurisdiction.

Here is what the Provincial regulations say on the subject:

BC Building Code Part 7 Plumbing Services, Sentence 7.6.2.1. 3) Backflow preventers shall be selected and installed in conformance with CAN/CSA-B64.10, "Manual for the Selection and Installation of Backflow Prevention Devices." (See Appendix A.)

The referenced edition of the CAN/CSA-B64.10 is the 2001 as amended to July, 2004.

There is no language in the noted edition of CAN/CSA-B64.10-01 covering the installation of unions for the removal/replacement of backflow preventers.

Clause *5.5 Strainers
*Installation of an inline strainer shall be required where water contains foreign material that could lodge on or erode the seating surfaces.

Some local jurisdictions in the Metro Vancouver area require strainers on the inlet side of premise isolating (containment) backflow preventers as it is not uncommon that such foreign material to introduced to the public distribution system during construction.

Backflow prevention assemblies are designed to tested and repaired in-line so that (theoretically at least) removal should not be a normal course of action. This would negate the need for mandatory installation of unions.

Given the above factors, unless the job was bid with the optional fittings shown on the drawings or mandated by the local jurisdiction, to my mind, it does not make financial sense to include them in the system.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

Wait a minute, in pic 3, is that a hose bibb upstream of the premise isolation DCVA?


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## bchplumbing (Oct 24, 2009)

Very Nice work! Are those 80 or 100 gallon A.O.Smiths?


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

100 gallon, i will never use them ever again though


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

Those A.O. Smithes are F-in HEAVY. We just did a 130 Gallon 300 BTUH A.O. Smith into a Mezzanine of a Restaurant. 800 pounds dry weight. BRUTAL. I feel for the guys who have to do that RE & RE!!

They are pretty nice tanks though, I like the built in controls and all that, BUT for roughly price of the powered anode, steel walled, A.O. Smith 300 BTH 130 gallon Cyclone we just installed I can install a Condensing Boiler with a Stainless Steel Indirect hot water tank that will probably last MUCH longer or within a few thousand, a few of these stainless gas hot water tanks: http://www.htproducts.com/literature/lp-193.pdf

In Surrey for BFP's, for fixture isolation for a fixture that shuts off abruptly, they require a soft seated check valve downstream of a backflow preventer, as well as a water hammer arrrestor downstream of t his check valve. I guess to absorb the water hammer but protect the springs of the most downstream check valve of the BFP.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

5 unions will be fine. why would you need a union on cpvc 3/4? takes like 2 min to cut in a coupling. I don't ever install unions on cpvc or pex (unless it's large sizes).


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

IMO, unions should be put next to threaded connections or where equipment may need to be changed. I think it's part of a quality installation. It makes life easier for the service plumber.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> IMO, unions should be put next to threaded connections or where equipment may need to be changed. I think it's part of a quality installation. It makes life easier for the service plumber.


ILP, I agree, but for backflow prevention assemblies one union only. One on the upstream and another on the downstream equates to possible spool piece.

But that's only me.


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## SPH (Nov 4, 2008)

Scott K said:


> Those A.O. Smithes are F-in HEAVY. We just did a 130 Gallon 300 BTUH A.O. Smith into a Mezzanine of a Restaurant. 800 pounds dry weight. BRUTAL. I feel for the guys who have to do that RE & RE!!
> 
> They are pretty nice tanks though, I like the built in controls and all that, BUT for roughly price of the powered anode, steel walled, A.O. Smith 300 BTH 130 gallon Cyclone we just installed I can install a Condensing Boiler with a Stainless Steel Indirect hot water tank that will probably last MUCH longer or within a few thousand, a few of these stainless gas hot water tanks: http://www.htproducts.com/literature/lp-193.pdf


We fired up those 4 AO SMith 300BTU tanks last month, only 2 started properly. One came with a broken hot surface ignitor, one had electrical issues. I will NEVER purchase another Cyclone given the chance.

I will admit that the built in controls are pretty cool though. But you are right, for the same price you can get a waay better condensing boiler.


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## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> IMO, unions should be put next to threaded connections or where equipment may need to be changed. I think it's part of a quality installation. It makes life easier for the service plumber.


 
I like flanged installs on bfd's... take the old one out, put the new one in, drop in your gaskets, tighten your bolts and there you go... getting ready to change out a 6" Febco 805Y next week...


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## TheSkinnyGuy (Sep 15, 2009)

nice clean work by the way


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

Thanks for the comments. There is a strainer before DCVA protecting everything. 

I agree with SPH the AO Smith Cyclone are not worth the money.


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## eddiecalder (Jul 15, 2008)

Hey SPH are you going to post the updated pics with the insulation?


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