# newer w/h gas controls



## spudwrench (Sep 15, 2009)

I replaced a w/h, and the new install was an American that had the gas control similar to the B-W Icon. So, I kind of liked it and found that the valves can possibly be fitted to the pre flame-guard systems. Got a 50 gal. State in my home, and would like to try out the retro-fit. Anybody tried the retro-fit? Just an experiment for me, and no, I don't want to change to a flame guard in my house. I'll buy a standard 100 gal. first.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I was told the other day that ALL W/H manufacturers will be going to the Icon type gas valves.........


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> I was told the other day that ALL W/H manufacturers will be going to the Icon type gas valves.........


Status LED! No 120v needed. Can remove valve w/o draining tank. THis was on a BW PV I did a month ago, nice set up.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

DIZ said:


> Status LED! No 120v needed. Can remove valve w/o draining tank. THis was on a BW PV I did a month ago, nice set up.


That's the manufacture that started all this mess.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

There is no way the other manufacturers were going to let BW get away with all those add ons alone.


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## DIZ (Nov 17, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> That's the manufacture that started all this mess.


What mess?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

DIZ said:


> What mess?


Those controls have been a PITA ever since they came out. Maybe they have them under control, I hope so.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I dunno about them being a PITA, I have installed about 50 of the Bradford White units with the Icon gas valves, not a single issue yet.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

That's good to hear, Ron. I know of the few I've installed there have been a couple issues, nothing a new Icon didn't solve. But like I was told I think the issues are resolved.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm with Titan on this one, we've had a few issues and stopped carrying B/W in favor of American, I mean Premier Plus, I mean U.S. Craftmaster, I mean well you get the idea. We will still install B/W if it's a rush job on a non-standard heater situation. But the gas valves and thermopiles have been a little tricky obtaining, and getting credit for.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

I have installed about 20 of the BW with new ICON valve, No Issues to report.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Their Problems are probably resolved*

I had to switch to Rheem because of the fits that
the ICCON valve was giving me.... Every time I lit one up
I crossed my fingers in prayed it would come on without me
haveing to fight with it...for 30 minutes...

The last one that gave me fits, I was so pissed off that I waited till the customer went out of the room and then I smacked it a few times with my channel locks... then it worked ok:laughing::laughing:


I have also noticed that the bradfords do not last long if they have a water softener ....it seems that all my warranty leakers always have soft water... I guess the sodium is corroding them quicker than they should...


In all honesty, I think that they have finally got most of the bugs worked out of the ICON valve... but I will stick with the Rheems for now...

as far as all those after market add ons you can sell the customer..... they suck.... and no one wants them except for the geeks in California.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

We have installed several BW with the Icon and have had zero problems.

That being said, we just switched to Rheem. I can get a 40 gal. Rheem about 50 bucks cheaper than the BW. I can't find any drop off in quality. We have to repair very few Rheems. I spend most my time ordering pilot assemblys for American,Whirlpool,Craftmaster,Kennmore and AO Smith water heaters


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

PlungerJockey said:


> We have installed several BW with the Icon and have had zero problems.
> 
> That being said, we just switched to Rheem. I can get a 40 gal. Rheem about 50 bucks cheaper than the BW. I can't find any drop off in quality. We have to repair very few Rheems. I spend most my time ordering pilot assemblys for American,Whirlpool,Craftmaster,Kennmore and AO Smith water heaters


The Ultra Low Nox Rheems have a glass vial akin to a fire sprinkler in the burner chamber as a safety device. If the glass vial breaks, a door for incoming combustion air closes shutting down the heater. Good luck with that warranty call.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

The glass vial can be replaced with any non combustable object the same lenght, like a screw. :whistling2:


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Installed a customer provided gas water heater yesterday. It was a Whirlpool, it had the new electronic thermostat on it like the ion. 

The new Whirlpools have a thermopile, the old ones were a pile. 

I told him and wrote on the invoice no warranty on customer provided water heater and got him to sign next to it.


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## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

DIZ said:


> Status LED! No 120v needed. Can remove valve w/o draining tank. THis was on a BW PV I did a month ago, nice set up.



True....true.....

But if you have an issue with the thermistor resistance values in the thermal well, then you have to drain the tank or better yet, pull a vacuum on it and replace it on the fly.

Had one last week, the resistance values told the Icon that the water was 120 degrees F even though my thermometer and the client's hands said 201 Degrees!!

And I think you still need 120V for the venter. The line voltage wiring goes through the Icon (which is different from the standard Icon on the atmospheric units) and acts as a ignition module as well as having all of the safety interlocks going through the control.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

JK949 said:


> I'm with Titan on this one, *we've had a few issues and stopped carrying B/W in favor of American, I mean Premier Plus, I mean U.S. Craftmaster, I mean well you get the idea.* We will still install B/W if it's a rush job on a non-standard heater situation. But the gas valves and thermopiles have been a little tricky obtaining, and getting credit for.


Sounds like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire to me... :whistling2:

The only Flame Guard I will ever install is a customer supplied one... :yes:


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

The icon style control is old. American has been selling them for years. just only on one model though. I think i saw the first one on a whirlpool in blowes like 6 years ago. It just doesn't have the add-on stuff.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Redwood said:


> Sounds like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire to me... :whistling2:
> 
> The only Flame Guard I will ever install is a customer supplied one... :yes:


I agree. I install nothing but american when it's electric. But their gas units suck big time.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Protech said:


> I agree. I install nothing but american when it's electric. *But their gas units suck big time.*


I think that is an understatement.... :laughing:
But then again I don't think the mods here would like it if I said what I really think about them :no:

When it comes to FVIR designs Bradford White and Lochinvar have got the best available and there is no doubt in my mind... :thumbup:

I'll give Rheem, Ruud, & Richmond 2nd place but the smaller surface area of their flame arrestor and the one time use glass vial is what puts them there...

The Flame Guard design with the air inlet on the bottom playing Hoover, and their initial problems with the one time use thermocouple with the thermal fuse just make the whole AO Smith family a red headed stepchild of the industry...:whistling2:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*today at noon*

the bradford white system got me out of trouble today..

it was the older unit before the ICON came out..

was able to talk the customer into being able to re-light 
the unit without me having to make a 20 mile trip..

they had tried to light it a few times
but told them to tap the re-set button on the fire wall and see if that did not re-set the unit.. it started right up ok

I dnot know if I will be as lucky with the new ICON valves
over the phone....

I HATE free service calls on the weekends.....


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## Prscptn Plmbng (Feb 15, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I think that is an understatement.... :laughing:
> But then again I don't think the mods here would like it if I said what I really think about them :no:
> 
> When it comes to FVIR designs Bradford White and Lochinvar have got the best available and there is no doubt in my mind... :thumbup:
> ...


So very true....


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

seems like the quality of heaters is going down. been putting in ruud/rheem heaters for 20 years.... 80 % of them just get past warranty. Have to stock a couple a.o. smiths to replace the crap the competitor puts in that fails under warranty.


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## Prscptn Plmbng (Feb 15, 2011)

Ruudplumber said:


> seems like the quality of heaters is going down. been putting in ruud/rheem heaters for 20 years.... 80 % of them just get past warranty. Have to stock a couple a.o. smiths to replace the crap the competitor puts in that fails under warranty.


I used to be a warranty service provider for a.o.smith... I will never sell one to any of my customers...they have the worst fvir design of them all...

Prescription Plumbing Inc 
P.O.Box 6378 
Oceanside, CA 92502


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