# UPC vs all others! (ipc/irc/state codes)



## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

i was wondering how everyone feels about this? shouldn't we have just one code book? UPC. Nothing compares with the UPC. We know that the AHJ has finale say but it should be from one general source!


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

thats what the ipc is all about. just everyone needs to jump in.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> i was wondering how everyone feels about this? shouldn't we have just one code book? UPC. Nothing compares with the UPC. We know that the AHJ has finale say but it should be from one general source!


As I am from Canada, my comment is irrelevant. I just need to boost my post count. :laughing:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> i was wondering how everyone feels about this? shouldn't we have just one code book? UPC. Nothing compares with the UPC. We know that the AHJ has finale say but it should be from one general source!


I prefer Chicago code over UPC.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

As long as you have people in the business of making big money writing and selling code books, there is little incentive for any of them to "join forces". And cities like NY, Chi, LA, and states like MA, will continue to march to their own drummer.


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## plumbfreak (Sep 4, 2009)

the upc code is THE code. plumbing is plumbing all code is for a reason.cities will have certin things the will or will not allow,but it should shall not go against upc.if were allowed to plumb out of any retarted code book we want,then i have a book we could use.It's called Joe Macgee plumbing code.How do we expect to keep out unlicenced contractors & plumbers from doing are work that is already scarce.We need to have a standard that standard is the UPC.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

i agree!


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Reciprocity between states has always been an issue. Not only should one "universal" code be accepted but all states but other things like licenses, and apprentice training hours should also be honored.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

plumbfreak said:


> the upc code is THE code. plumbing is plumbing all code is for a reason.cities will have certin things the will or will not allow,but it should shall not go against upc.if were allowed to plumb out of any retarted code book we want,then i have a book we could use.It's called Joe Macgee plumbing code.How do we expect to keep out unlicenced contractors & plumbers from doing are work that is already scarce.We need to have a standard that standard is the UPC.


 Please explain to me how the UPC keeps unlicensed contractors and plumbers out? Does the UPC send out enforcement officers for you? What does the UPC do for you?


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## plumbfreak (Sep 4, 2009)

The upc doesent keep unlicensed plumbers out.IF people are allowed to plumb any kind of way they want. then any jackoff can be a damn plumber and say his code book told him how to plumb. that's why we need to have one code book to work out of.you have be a plumber to read and undestand then apply the upc in the field.


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## plumbfreak (Sep 4, 2009)

the upc gives me knowledge to pass two journeyman tests in two different states,that i have cards in.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

nh i agree with you on that. i live in the USA so the uniform plumbing code is good for me. if the rest of the world wants to live by our standards more power to them.


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

as for plumbing contractors they should definitely need or be required a master/ journeyman plumber on every job and one per so many apprentices per job. Plumbing contractor license should only be issued to a journeyman plumber with the required hours of field work and pass a written test out of the UPC. " only to a Journeyman Plumber who has passed a UPC written test and have the required field hours accumulated as an apprentice plumber."


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

plumbfreak said:


> the upc gives me knowledge to pass two journeyman tests in two different states,that i have cards in.


Couldn't a guy following the IPC say the samething?


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I am a licensed Plumbing Contractor in multiple States. In addition, I have my Inspectors Certificate in both the IPC and the UPC. Between the two Codes I prefer the UPC.

Mark


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> I am a licensed Plumbing Contractor in multiple States. In addition, I have my Inspectors Certificate in both the IPC and the UPC. Between the two Codes I prefer the UPC.
> 
> Mark


 Glad to know that:thumbsup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Hey another question. What would having one standard code for the whole country do for me? I work in one state.......theres plenty of plumbing here:laughing:


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

so do i toutahnow.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> Between the two Codes I prefer the UPC.
> 
> Mark



Keep it.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Keep it.


 I agree and the city of San Antonio wants to give it back to them also. they want the IPC. I understand you like the chico code and i think you should be able to keep it.:thumbsup:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

The two Codes are fairly similar but I believe the UPC is more inclusive. An example is, I looked at a project in Nevada where they were having a problem with pre-cast marble shower pans. Looking at the UPC it spelled out exactly what was required and the pans were not legal under the UPC. However, when looking at the IPC it refers you to the ASTM Standard the pan must comply with instead of the requirements. So as a plumber or inspector, you can't just run out to the truck and grab your Code book. Instead you need to go buy a $65 copy of the 20-page ASTM Standard to figure out what the requirements were.

ICC and IAPMO were real close to merging a few years ago but the ICC stopped it in the last minute over the Code adoption process. I think they will try it again some day but there were some hard feelings about how it ended last time.

Earlier this year ICC held a week long training session on the IPC/IMC during their annual EDU-CODE which was held in Las Vegas. With the exception of the Head Mechanical Inspector from Salt Lake City, all of the Instructors and all of the power point material was from IAPMO. Although the Head Mechanical Inspector was from a State where they use the ICC Codes, he is also a member of the IAPMO. He is the guy that trained all of the trainers who taught the UPC in India recently. With the Code personnel so tied at the waste I'm sure someday the Codes will all merge.

Mark


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## user2091 (Sep 27, 2009)

thanks for clarifying this. hope it happens soon. i think the UPC in this new version 2006 is well written. a plumbers bible. it does address most and answers all. it would serve well for more of the residential guys to read and learn it, become better plumbers and not just fast installers! i've been following it since the 1994 copy which i still own. i passed my journeyman's test under the adoption of 1997 UPC and i renewed my card under the 2002 UPC. i just purchased the new adoption of 2006 UPC and it's very well written for us high school diploma plumbers! never stop learning.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

The IPC tells you the ASTM standard number. That is correct. 

You don't go get your ASTM book, you look on the product for the ASTM number. I never bought an ASTM book. I just put my 1.0 power reading glasses on and do what my first grade teacher taught me. I read.

IL Plumbing code is loosely based on IPC. I love it.

I am also a licensed plumbing contractor in Indiana. UPC state. UPC is not stringent enough. I like dry vented fixtures. I like vented floor drains.

I could fill three posts with things in the UPC I do not like.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

I have been taught under and have been using UPC all my career and find it to be the best code out there.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

bigdaddyplumber said:


> thanks for clarifying this. hope it happens soon. i think the UPC in this new version 2006 is well written. a plumbers bible. it does address most and answers all. it would serve well for more of the residential guys to read and learn it, become better plumbers and not just fast installers! i've been following it since the 1994 copy which i still own. i passed my journeyman's test under the adoption of 1997 UPC and i renewed my card under the 2002 UPC. i just purchased the new adoption of 2006 UPC and it's very well written for us high school diploma plumbers! never stop learning.


If you want to take up a cause, instead of trying to force a standard countrywide code why don't you go after the codes in the state you live and work in that allows non plumbers to legally install plumbing systems?


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> I have been taught under and have been using UPC all my career and find it to be the best code out there.


Keep it.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> The IPC tells you the ASTM standard number. That is correct.
> 
> You don't go get your ASTM book, you look on the product for the ASTM number. I never bought an ASTM book. I just put my 1.0 power reading glasses on and do what my first grade teacher taught me. I read.
> 
> ...


...and there in lies the problem and why 200 custom marble shower units were installed wrong. The ASTM Standard for a synthetic shower pan is the same as the ASTM Standard for a synthetic bathtub. The builder thought the IPC was the governing Code so he found the ASTM Standard that applied ( same Standard for both Codes) and purchased the product which listed the appropriate ASTM Standard. Through our exchanges they produced the paperwork they received from the manufacturer which showed the proper ASTM Standard. 

Although the UPC was the governing Code and the installation was illegal under that Code, I thought I would give the builder the benefit of the doubt and read the ASTM Standard. I had to buy the Standard online and yes the pan was legal according to the Standard, if install as a self-rimming or pedestal Installation. However, if used against a vertical wall or surface, it was not legal unless a factory supplied/installed integral flange had been installed. 

The difference between the two Codes in this instance was the UPC told you the shower pan had to have the flange, the IPC made you read the ASTM Standard to learn it needed it.

Mark


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## plumbfreak (Sep 4, 2009)

upc is the only way to plumb period thats my opinion.everyone else just finds something to fit the crapy way they wany to plum. after all ups is unoform plumbing code. uniform everything the same....


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

plumbfreak said:


> upc is the only way to plumb period thats my opinion.everyone else just finds something to fit the crapy way they wany to plum. after all ups is unoform plumbing code. uniform everything the same....


I hope you are just kidding? There are a things in other Codes which are superior to the UPC. The problem is trying to compile the best of each Code to come up with one Code.

Mark


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

plumbfreak said:


> upc is the only way to plumb period thats my opinion.everyone else just finds something to fit the crapy way they wany to plum. after all ups is unoform plumbing code. uniform everything the same....


 I dont need a code book to plumb. I know how already. You could fire every inspector in town and i would still plumb the same way. I've taught inspectors more than they have ever taught me. One held me up an hour while he called charlotte pipe to make sure you can use sch 80 pvc fittings with sch 40 pipe. Nice. :laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> I dont need a code book to plumb. I know how already. You could fire every inspector in town and i would still plumb the same way. I've taught inspectors more than they have ever taught me. One held me up an hour while he called charlotte pipe to make sure you can use sch 80 pvc fittings with sch 40 pipe. Nice. :laughing:


 
I think that is called experience.... And it takes time to acquire.


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