# Location of new WH



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

A customer called me and asked to install a new 10 gallon electric water water in the back of his nutrition/supplement shop located in a commercial building. 1 bathroom and a mop sink. Currently no WH in the shop, so I would be creating a location for this. 

As far as the location of the water heater, is there anything in the code book that says I cannot install it in the bathroom, or that I have to have it in a closet, attic, or utility room? 

I know about the t&p, and drain pan requirements, 18" ignition off floor etc, but never actually knew if I am restricted to where I can actually have it located...theoretically could I have it in a persons bedroom as long as it is properly installed?? (not that I would, but just curious)


----------



## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

voltatab said:


> I know about the t&p, and drain pan requirements, 18" ignition off floor etc, but never actually knew if I am restricted to where I can actually have it located...theoretically could I have it in a persons bedroom as long as it is properly installed?? (not that I would, but just curious)


You just said it's electric, what's with those questions? Are you a plumber?


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

See ya later, Voltatab..


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Be nice folks, (I know that's kind of hard to digest, coming from ME...) but V is a well established member who has provided intelligent debate as well as insighful and intelligent contributions to this orum for as long as I can remember.

On par with the deep posts I made AGAIN the other eve, I have vowed to attempt to curb my attitude which is akin to the above posts.

I am going to try to keep in mind, that we all have different areas of expertise, and there are not many who are proficient in ALL aspects of what is encompassed under the generic term "plumbing".

I ak everyone to join me in this crusade. This is all part and parcel with what OS posted about the "forum members"...

I'm sure that most o us read a portion of that long read that hit cloose to home, and I for one, didn't like that feeling.

:thumbup:

Edit:

Voltatab; Unfortunately, I do not know where you are located OTTOMH, nore do I even know my local code on the subject without looking it up.
Please orgive the uselessness of my post towards your query, though I wish you luck in finding your answer!

UA


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

voltatab said:


> A customer called me and asked to install a new 10 gallon electric water water in the back of his nutrition/supplement shop located in a commercial building. 1 bathroom and a mop sink. Currently no WH in the shop, so I would be creating a location for this.
> 
> As far as the location of the water heater, is there anything in the code book that says I cannot install it in the bathroom, or that I have to have it in a closet, attic, or utility room?
> 
> I know about the t&p, and drain pan requirements, 18" ignition off floor etc, but never actually knew if I am restricted to where I can actually have it located...theoretically could I have it in a persons bedroom as long as it is properly installed?? (not that I would, but just curious)


Usually we install them above the washroom on a small platform in the drop ceiling space


----------



## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Usually we install them above the washroom on a small platform in the drop ceiling space


Good idear! :thumbup:

The following user wishes to thank U666A for this useful post: Mississippiplum


----------



## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Either that, or install an on-demand unit under the sink. I've had good luck with units from these folks:

http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/


----------



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Haha no worries on the beating I was about to receive for the question, whew! I tend to ask a lot of em...thanks UA for your post. 

He is correct, i am a residential plumber, not commercial, and the last 3 years have been heavy in service, so im always double checking about code with anything commercial - lemme quick re phrase...

Commercial building wants WH in his business for lav, & mop sink, in the back is just an empty back room that has a small bathroom. No utility room, no laundry, nothing else. 

I just wasnt sure if I was restricted to where I could locate it, since it wasn't a point of use kind. 

He already bought the WH, but I'll talk to him about an on demand one, would be a much cheaper solution. - thanks 

.


----------



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

And ChrisC, I assume your comment about it being electric was referring to me stating 18" ignition off floor? Only put that cause i was failed inspection w an electric that had its bottom thermostat less than 18" off floor inspector told me that it is not a gas proof enclosed electrical ignition and still needed to be raised if not high enough. I had not previously known that


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Make sure you do it with permits. And use a licensed electrician to do the electric. You have enough liability on you, you don't need the electrical work too.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

The 18" rule applies to electric water heaters here as well. 

The restrictions on location of the water heater are mostly related to gas or oil fired heaters. I don't think there is a restriction on where you can locate an electric water heater. You do have to provide all the same safety provisions (pan, t&p drain, shut off valve, electrical disconnect).

In a bathroom I would have some sort of box, cabinet, partition, etc. to conceal it. The jacket will be a rusty mess in no time resulting from cleaners and over spray from the urinal.  You also would not want the water heater to double as a storage shelf.

Check with your AHJ. He might have other specific details for you to consider.


----------



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

As always, thanks guys


----------



## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

voltatab said:


> A customer called me and asked to install a new 10 gallon electric water water in the back of his nutrition/supplement shop located in a commercial building. 1 bathroom and a mop sink. Currently no WH in the shop, so I would be creating a location for this.
> 
> As far as the location of the water heater, is there anything in the code book that says I cannot install it in the bathroom, or that I have to have it in a closet, attic, or utility room?
> 
> I know about the t&p, and drain pan requirements, 18" ignition off floor etc, but never actually knew if I am restricted to where I can actually have it located...theoretically could I have it in a persons bedroom as long as it is properly installed?? (not that I would, but just curious)


This may sound like a dumb question but have you talked to the customer about a point of use heater? Emax makes a unit that can handle a couple of bathrooms and operates off of 220v, can be mounted under sink or pretty much anywhere.

As for a 10 gallon heater, I don't know how your codes are. Around here, a heater can pretty much go anywhere and only has to be raised if it is in an area where gasoline or other flammable objects can be stored. I've been to condo's before that had a 40gallon stuffed where a lazy Suzan should be in the kitchen.


----------



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

I've actually seen that as well. There's no chemicals in back, and its a nutrition shop so i doubt they would ever, but I would raise it to be safe, since they may move out one day. 

I will talk to them about that type of unit, since it will be a cheaper solution


----------



## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

voltatab said:


> I've actually seen that as well. There's no chemicals in back, and its a nutrition shop so i doubt they would ever, but I would raise it to be safe, since they may move out one day.
> 
> I will talk to them about that type of unit, since it will be a cheaper solution


I'll say this much, we were told at a phcc meeting that most electric heaters don't have to be raised due to the source of ignition is already 18" off of the ground. You may have to check on a 10 gallon heater how high the element is off of the ground, if that applies in your area.


----------



## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

Hey volt, the water heater can be installed in the bath room. The t&p can be ran to the wash tub as long as its in the same room as the the heater and you maintain a 1'' air gap above the rim and no gas appliances are aloud in any room that can double as a sleeping quater according to the I.P.C. .


----------



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

Thanks Mike!


----------



## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> I'll say this much, we were told at a phcc meeting that most electric heaters don't have to be raised due to the source of ignition is already 18" off of the ground. You may have to check on a 10 gallon heater how high the element is off of the ground, if that applies in your area.


 I dont think thats true I've worked on lot of electric heaters that had the elec. posts blown clean off of the elements and I dont know of any standard heaters where the lower elements are over even 15" above the floor! Just saying


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> I'll say this much, we were told at a phcc meeting that most electric heaters don't have to be raised due to the source of ignition is already 18" off of the ground. You may have to check on a 10 gallon heater how high the element is off of the ground, if that applies in your area.





azmike said:


> I dont think thats true I've worked on lot of electric heaters that had the elec. posts blown clean off of the elements and I dont know of any standard heaters where the lower elements are over even 15" above the floor! Just saying


The difference being whether it is a dual or single element heater.

The single element heater will have a single thermostat that may be above 18". The larger the heater, the more likely that thermostat is above 18".

The dual element heater will have a lower thermostat located near the lower element. The lower stat will always be under 18".


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

azmike said:


> Hey volt, the water heater can be installed in the bath room. The t&p can be ran to the wash tub as long as its in the same room as the the heater and you maintain a 1'' air gap above the rim and no gas appliances are aloud in any room that can double as a sleeping quater according to the I.P.C. .


That is not true

You are allowed direct vented gas equipment in sleeping quarters

Either that or you would never have a gas fireplace in a bedroom

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


----------



## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

azmike said:


> I dont think thats true I've worked on lot of electric heaters that had the elec. posts blown clean off of the elements and I dont know of any standard heaters where the lower elements are over even 15" above the floor! Just saying


Some water heaters have elements 18" and above. Let's make a for instance:

Water heater bottom element is 14" from bottom of heater, would only need to be raised 4". Codes differ around the country, down here an electric water heater would rarely need to be raised.


----------



## Anonymous (Jan 7, 2012)

18" rule for electric HWT ????

There is no source of ignition there....(there is no open sparks or arching) 

I can see this applying to gas, propane and oil but an electric HWT???

Strange rule they got for your jurisdiction.... it surely does not apply here.....


----------



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

I would double check because electrical contacts absolutely can spark. Almost all switches and contactors I've seen will make a slight spark when turning something on


----------



## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> That is not true
> 
> You are allowed direct vented gas equipment in sleeping quarters
> 
> ...


 You are 100% correct, direct vented heaters are permitted!


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

voltatab said:


> I would double check because electrical contacts absolutely can spark. Almost all switches and contactors I've seen will make a slight spark when turning something on


The stat in the hwt is closed or sealed

On another note. If there would be an 18" rule like some of you guys are saying ..... Wouldn't an electrical outlet apply if you were worried about sparking or arching

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


----------



## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

I have to say that the smartest thing to do is stick to the rules governed in your area if you have doubts just call and ask your local inspection office! Thats what I do if I have trouble interpeting parts of the code.


----------



## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> The stat in the hwt is closed or sealed
> 
> On another note. If there would be an 18" rule like some of you guys are saying ..... Wouldn't an electrical outlet apply if you were worried about sparking or arching
> 
> Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


Os why are you trying to apply common sence to building codes.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> Os why are you trying to apply common sence to building codes.


Just trying to make sense of the senseless


----------



## voltatab (Jan 2, 2010)

An electrical outlet would only spark when plugging something in, and in the garage ive never seen an outlet below 18", around here anyway. 
Also, the WH stats may be sealed but ate not always air/gas tight...according to manufacture at least. 

I ended up installing the WH above bathroom in a small crawl space btw. Over the phone an inspector daid he disnt care where it was installed at all so long as it was code. Inspector on site said he wanted it in a utility type of area, so I had to make a platform up top with a service area...jeeze, Why cant all inspectors followed th same damn rules!


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

I thought that part of the 18" rule for garages and such was to provide the burner with fresh make-up air...

Does not apply in my area for electric, so far anyways


----------



## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

CTs2p2 said:


> I thought that part of the 18" rule for garages and such was to provide the burner with fresh make-up air...
> 
> Does not apply in my area for electric, so far anyways


It's so it doesn't make kaboom. Had a guy try to talk me out of raising his heater in the garage. He ended up finding out the boss was friends with his brother, whole time insisting he didn't store any gas in the garage. After he found out who we knew he showed me a 55 gallon drum under a sheet and said it was full of race fuel for his drag car. Damn thing was 4ft from the heater...


----------



## azmike (Feb 3, 2010)

504Plumber said:


> It's so it doesn't make kaboom. Had a guy try to talk me out of raising his heater in the garage. He ended up finding out the boss was friends with his brother, whole time insisting he didn't store any gas in the garage. After he found out who we knew he showed me a 55 gallon drum under a sheet and said it was full of race fuel for his drag car. Damn thing was 4ft from the heater...


 WOW!! Thats incredible thats something that could level the whole block! BOOOM..


----------



## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

azmike said:


> WOW!! Thats incredible thats something that could level the whole block! BOOOM..


Tell me about it, steel drum that had a lot of rust on the bottom, didn't make me feel too good.


----------

