# What to do when they refuse...



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

What to do when they refuse? Yesterday I had a call to locate a leak and repair it, I saw stains and dripings on the wall below so I reset the toilet as it was rocking 180 degrees.

When that was fixed I found out the 3" ABS 45 at the base of the stack was cracked and leaking too. I told him I'd try to save the wye and 45 as they were glued together. When I cut it off I noticed the wye was loose and I saw it was also cracked under the slab.

This is where it got heated, I told him to do it properly I would have to break the concrete and replace it. I would need to go and get my chipper as its a tool I seldom need. This is where he started to complain "I don't believe in 2019 there isn't a product to fix this. I'm NOT paying you to go and get it , you should have it in your truck, bla bla bla etc."

My question is what do you do in this instance, my work order clearly states my rate applies to get tools or materials I don't usually carry. They always sign without reading that, even then they'll most likely throw a fit when I mention it later down the road.

How would you enforce it? Am I going to read all the terms and conditions to every customer I go to before I start work? Am I going to tell every single thing that can happen, I'd be there 3 weeks! I know some will say you didn't tell me that before you started but they still signed.

To finish the story I left the wye cracked I wrote on the work order he refused to replace the wye and the job wasn't guaranteed. He started to argue again why I wasn't guaranteeing the job! Jeezuz.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

well ill be honest with you, you should of had the rotory hammer on the truck, I carry a mid sized one all the time, did you look at this job before doing it? 

if I have a job threading pipe I carry all my threading stuff, if I have a pex job I carry all my pex stuff..I try to put on the truck what I may need that day rather than run home to get it and that could take several hours depending how far away I am...
true you cant have everything you need on your truck all the time , but you should take what you think you will need..
so now the people have to pay a few hundred $$ more for you to get a tool you should have had?? I wouldnt pay that, I would have told you go get your tool, but its your time not mine( the customer) thats going to pay for it...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

you are better off just to be happy for re-setting the toilet and simply walking away from that one..........

diplomatically speaking, -----what you should have done was to bill him for the toilet repair and maybe a diagnostic fee for finding this problem......
Then just give him an estimate to make the repair to the concrete floor...
. then get the hell out of there and let him stew over the price for a few days...

Just tell him to call around and get prices to make that repair and then say we can set this up another day to do this job......
Say thank you sir and then ---.PISS ON HIM if he ever calls back

of course this person sounds like an ass-ho/e and will never call you back anyway and its probably better just to get the hell out of there..and never return.... 

you did get paid for what you did repair correct??/


you should also carry a roll of black gorilla tape and just smeared some silicone on the pipe first then wrapped it with the black tape to make this dickhead happy.......

and maybe keep a bucket of tar pitch in your truck would have been ok too...

.just dont give him any warranty


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Master Mark said:


> you are better off just to be happy for re-setting the toilet and simply walking away from that one..........
> 
> diplomatically speaking, what you should have done was to bill him for the toilet repair and maybe a diagnostic fee for finding this problem.....
> just give him an estimate to make the repair to the concrete floor....
> ...


the problem with that is if you touch it YOUR liable for any damage from that leak..even without a warranty, unless you write up some long hold harmless clause on the bill or contract and then the homeowner most likely wont sign it or pay you....I would let it leak till I had a signed work order for the work..either that day or to come back and fix at a later time..just remember" all good deeds dont go unpunished"...so that tape and silicone quick fix will come back and bite you big time..fix it right or dont touch a dam thing..


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> well ill be honest with you, you should of had the rotory hammer on the truck, I carry a mid sized one all the time, did you look at this job before doing it?
> 
> if I have a job threading pipe I carry all my threading stuff, if I have a pex job I carry all my pex stuff..I try to put on the truck what I may need that day rather than run home to get it and that could take several hours depending how far away I am...
> true you cant have everything you need on your truck all the time , but you should take what you think you will need..
> so now the people have to pay a few hundred $$ more for you to get a tool you should have had?? I wouldnt pay that, I would have told you go get your tool, but its your time not mine( the customer) thats going to pay for it...


I never go look at jobs for free unless I'm near on another call. There were 2 issues, 2 leaks on the same pipe and area. I repaired the toilet, when the repair was done I saw the second problem. I didn't see the cracked fitting at first. He did pay for my time, I've yet to cash in the check.



Just a quick comparison, I've looked into a few competitors trucks and they are empty! They charge to go and get delta faucet parts, pex fitting, abs fittings and tools and more...

Now saying this I offered the guy not to charge him to get the chipper but he was going to pay the tool fee. He didn't want to pay to dig it up either. In his mind he called me for a 10 minute fix. 

Mark has a good point to provide a quote for the second job but I'm positive he would of made a scene saying I didn't fix the issue because for them it's one and only one problem. I'm sure he would of filed a complaint and refuse to pay the toilet leak when it was still leaking below.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> you are better off just to be happy for re-setting the toilet and simply walking away from that one..........



Are you saying once I've resetted the toilet and noticed the second issue and he started to argue not to charge him and leave since he was going to throw a fit?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tango said:


> Are you saying once I've resetted the toilet and noticed the second issue and he started to argue not to charge him and leave since he was going to throw a fit?




nn Actually No, you should get paid for the leak that you found..... and after looking more closely then you found another one..

Now something like a cracked 3 inch wye that is probably a stress crack going into the concrete I would have halted everything right then and there and just given him a price to fix this issue...... and the bill for the other problem

I dont even know if I would have actually wanted to do that job anyway depending on my schedule that day.....and you could have told him we can do this on another day.... 

giving them the price and option to shop it around you would have taken the "high road" and then the doof probably would not have felt you were trying to cheat him on his time...........
of course this is a good indicator that he is a dick-head anyway and you are better off getting out of there........

I keep pretty busy and have almost everything in my truck..... probably most people feel they are being boned when you drive half way across town to get them a fitting or part.....

and there is no reason to insist on tearing up that floor immediately that day..... 
give him a " ball park estimate" on tearing up the basement floor and get paid for what you did and let him think about his options....

Those who fight and run away, will live to fight another day...:biggrin::biggrin:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Awesome Mark! Thank you!:vs_clap::vs_clap:


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> Tango said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying once I've resetted the toilet and noticed the second issue and he started to argue not to charge him and leave since he was going to throw a fit?
> ...



I agree with mark.

I would have reset the toilet and diagnosed the leak. 

Written up a bid for opening up the floor and fixing it properly. Collect payment for the toilet/leak detection. Encourage him to get get three bids and be on my way.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Fatpat said:


> I agree with mark.
> 
> I would have reset the toilet and diagnosed the leak.
> 
> Written up a bid for opening up the floor and fixing it properly. Collect payment for the toilet/leak detection. Encourage him to get get three bids and be on my way.


 Personally , I would have been bummed out to find a problem like that one.... Nothing more fun than tearing up a concrete floor and finding god knows what that you have to get into to fix... 

Most times it would have been on a week when I was buried with work and could not do it anyway.... 

I would rather have done the toilet re-set and then given him a sky high estimate to tear up that floor and gotten the hell out of there 

let someone else deal with the fussy prick....:vs_laugh:. .


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

When I saw the cracked 45 I told him I could probably change it out and save the wye. He was okay with that. When I cut it off its whereI saw the wye was cracked too. Then it was too much for him.

In the future I might as well give them a price for the worst case scenario and break the floor. Take it or leave it.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Should have used schedule 40 pvc, the superior white pipe.


Also I agree with master mark.






.


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## JDSMaine (Feb 19, 2017)

I agree the ABS is too brittle. I’m not saying you cracked it but it could have happened when you bored out the fitting. Happens on schedule 40 all the time, pvc just gets old and brittle. If I ever question if I can make the repair I let the customer know. “I’ll try and save this fitting but there’s a chance it will crack. If that happens this will need to be chipped up, how would you like to proceed”. Also I always have a Bosch hammer drill on the truck for concrete anchors and lite chipping.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

JDSMaine said:


> I agree the ABS is too brittle. I’m not saying you cracked it but it could have happened when you bored out the fitting. Happens on schedule 40 all the time, pvc just gets old and brittle. If I ever question if I can make the repair I let the customer know. “I’ll try and save this fitting but there’s a chance it will crack. If that happens this will need to be chipped up, how would you like to proceed”. Also I always have a Bosch hammer drill on the truck for concrete anchors and lite chipping.





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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> the problem with that is if you touch it YOUR liable for any damage from that leak..even without a warranty, unless you write up some long hold harmless clause on the bill or contract and then the homeowner most likely wont sign it or pay you....I would let it leak till I had a signed work order for the work..either that day or to come back and fix at a later time..just remember" all good deeds dont go unpunished"...so that tape and silicone quick fix will come back and bite you big time..fix it right or dont touch a dam thing..


Im with mark on this,with some of the dickheads and dead beats we deal with silicone and ducttape is to good for them when you don’t get paid anyways


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