# New (to me) CSST Guidelines



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Got the new guidelines for a correct CSST installation from one of my Plumbing Inspectors today.

Never thought I'd have to dink around with grounding rods -- Makes sense, though.

The Sparky on the job told me there is an attachment for SDS roto-hammers that will make driving the grounding rods much easier. I'll have to look into that. The next thing to look into is grounding clamps suitable for outdoor use.

The Inspector was impressed that I was already familiar with the issue, especially considering lightening strikes are the exception, rather than the rule around here.

Thanks for the heads-up, PZ.:thumbsup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

The adapter for the SDS Roto Hammer works great....
Sends them right home.... :thumbup:

If you have the older style spline drive no adapter is needed...
Just remove the bit and set it on top, n hammer away...

As for bonding the CSST though you can use an existing ground you don't need to sink a new one...


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> The adapter for the SDS Roto Hammer works great....
> Sends them right home.... :thumbup:


 Could you point me in the right direction? I searched and came up with nothing.

Thanks.


> As for bonding the CSST though you can use an existing ground you don't need to sink a new one...


 I stopped and priced the correct gauge wire on the way home -- I think we will be driving our own grounding rods.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Grainger has them but they want a C-Note...

Amazon has them just search for "sds ground rod adapter bit"


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Grainger has them but they want a C-Note...
> 
> Amazon has them just search for "sds ground rod adapter bit"


That's exactly what I needed -- Just bought a 5/8" and a 3/4" Galaxy driver on ebay for $43.00 shipped.

Thanks a bunch, Red.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

No sweat buddy!

With those all you do is put the rotary hammer on top hold it straight and pull the trigger...

No pushing or anything just hold it in place and watch the rod go home.

It will go unless you hit a big petrified potato....


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Redwood said:


> It will go unless you hit a big petrified potato....


 Or one of Stillarounds 'not ready for Primetime' PE supplies.:laughing:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

So I wonder how well this stuff would work against strikes?

http://omegaflex.com/trac/home/


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

house plumber said:


> So I wonder how well this stuff would work against strikes?
> 
> http://omegaflex.com/trac/home/


 
It's approved here for use without bonding. That's what I use now. The price increase is less than buying wire and grounding it.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I've never had a problem bonding it because I don't use the crap :thumbsup:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I've never had a problem bonding it because I don't use the crap :thumbsup:


whats it like watching you're favorite materials get phased out by better products?


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Depends on one's definition of better :thumbsup:


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## J&Aplumbing (Jul 24, 2011)

Hey. Just got my journeymans any tips on the gas test


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Hmmmmmm....................Gas goes BOOM! :thumbsup:

Know the code


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

GREENPLUM said:


> whats it like watching you're favorite materials get phased out by better products?


We'll let you know if and when it ever happens. :laughing:


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

We used to ground all house gas lines at the gas meter.

Now the gas line has to be bonded to the house electrical system by an electrican


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Question y'all... Had a discussion today with 2 licensed gas fitters (I am not one, was just sort of listening in...) who were having a heated argument about concealed gas joints.

What does your local code say about joints in walls? (threaded, welded, flared, fusion, mechanical ie csst... Etc)

The elder of the two, by about a 30 year margin, claims that if a joint is to be concealed, it must be welded. The younger says that threaded joints are acceptable. 

I studied the code book during lunch and following that, our weekly safety meeting (which was close to an hour today on it's own... Sheesh!) to no avail. I could not find anything that could confirm nor deny either party's claim.

I understand that csst is quite popular in new resi constr in some areas these days, but I'm looking for specific code references.

Sorry for the slight thread derailment, but this thread just happened to be at the top of the list when this question arose...

Thanks in advance, gentlemen...

OS, I'm looking to you for a definitive Ontario answer on this one buddy...


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

*404.3 Piping in concealed locations.* Portions of a piping system installed in concealed locations shall not have unions, tubing fittings, right and left couplings, bushings, compression couplings and swing joints made by combinations of fittings. *

Exceptions:* 









1. Tubing joined by brazing.







2. Fittings listed for use in concealed locations.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

house plumber said:


> 404.3 Piping in concealed locations. Portions of a piping system installed in concealed locations shall not have unions, tubing fittings, right and left couplings, bushings, compression couplings and swing joints made by combinations of fittings.
> 
> Exceptions:
> 
> 1. Tubing joined by brazing. 2. Fittings listed for use in concealed locations.


Thanks HP! your pics did not show up for me (might be an iPhone thing) but what does it mean by "fittings listed for use in concealed locations"?


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

U666A said:


> Thanks HP! your pics did not show up for me (might be an iPhone thing) but what does it mean by "fittings listed for use in concealed locations"?


if the manufacturer approves them to conceal, them it is approved


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Bayside500 said:


> if the manufacturer approves them to conceal, them it is approved


No no... If a manufacturer told you that "this brand new toilet requires no vent and a 2" flange" would your inspector pass it?

TSSA inspectors take the gas code very seriously, and there shall be zero deviation...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Bayside500 said:


> if the manufacturer approves them to conceal, them it is approved





U666A said:


> No no... If a manufacturer told you that "this brand new toilet requires no vent and a 2" flange" would your inspector pass it?...


Bayside is right. But "approval" by the manufacturer is a loaded statement. That approval is usually accompanied by ASME, ASTM, IAPMO, or CSA (or some combination of all of the above) approval. In that instance a 2" flange still would not see the light of day.

The manufacturer can get these agency standards applied to their particular widget or process much sooner than the ICC would consider it for code approval. 

Of course in the end, the AHJ holds ultimate deciding power on approval of a widget or process that is not specifically addressed in the code.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

It looks like you can use bushings in open locations though. I've always heard no bushings at all.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

house plumber said:


> It looks like you can use bushings in open locations though. I've always heard no bushings at all.


Here it only says that a bushings to reduce by one trade size shall be carbon steel, but to reduce by 2 or more trade sizes, it shall be CS, or malleable iron. IDK...

But you still can't make Christmas trees...


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Here you cannot install a bushing in the wall.... I don't know why tho... You can use thread or weld but no compression .... And no copper in the wall .... Does any one know why you cannot use a bushing in the wall ????


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> We'll let you know if and when it ever happens. :laughing:


I agree with that!!!


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

tx mech plumber said:


> i agree with that!!!


i need that sticker!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

U666A said:


> i need that sticker!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Stickerheads.com. It's a hard hat sticker but they make it bigger too. Its a cool site


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> Stickerheads.com. It's a hard hat sticker but they make it bigger too. Its a cool site


Lol yeah, I have the one on the left on my old lid...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

U666A said:


> i need that sticker!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Me too!!!!!


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## studmaster1 (Dec 10, 2011)

in Va some counties let you bond csst to the water lines, others to the meter panel. They don't let you use grounding rods.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Take the wrap off csst and let a direct lightening strike hit...anyone hazard a guess as to the result of the bonding clamp and s/s connection?


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Lightening VS Anything

The winner is always the lightening bolt. Wood is not even a conductor but, lightening will split a tree in half. Basically no lawyers have figured out how to sue god for sending the bolt. Lawyers have to go after manufactures and insurance companies. Lightening striking anything is an act of god, except gas tite.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

We did a house in csst and the house was hit with lighting a few months back

Nothing wrong with the gas line but he lost every electrical appliance in his house

Fridge,stove,tv, etc

Even the hrv , airhandle and boiler got hit

Going to replace the hrv , air handler motor and some boiler parts

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> We did a house in csst and the house was hit with lighting a few months back
> 
> Nothing wrong with the gas line but he lost every electrical appliance in his house
> 
> ...


 




Question: was the CSST bonded to anything? Pictures would be nice.


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## studmaster1 (Dec 10, 2011)

stillaround said:


> Take the wrap off csst and let a direct lightening strike hit...anyone hazard a guess as to the result of the bonding clamp and s/s connection?


Your not supposed to put the clamp directly on the csst


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> Question: was the CSST bonded to anything? Pictures would be nice.


Our ground is on the 1" steel pipe

We always enter the building with steel pipe then run the csst to equipment

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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