# Has anyone done it themselves?



## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

Like most of us probably have had, I've got a GC that I had done a commercial job for, and finished April, 2010. It took him until mid Oct. to pay the supply house, and I never got a check. I had got a call from them saying that they finally had a check. So I go to thier office and sign a "Unconditional waiver and release of lein". So I ask, where's the check. I get an answer, "the bank needs the final release, before they will cut the checks". I was kinda pissed, but he has never **rewed me before. Weeks go by, and no check.

I kept getting the song and dance about how the job "cost me money" and I'll pay you in a couple months.... It cost him money, so as soon as the jobs done, he goes and buys a Hummer?

He wouldn't answer phone calls, texts or emails, soooo, I drive to Irving to his office, not once, but 3 times.... everytime with a promise that they have a check comming in, and he'll get me some money by the end of the week.

One of his employees had called me and made a proposal to me: We have another job comming up in Arlington (church) and if you want to bid on it, (well call him Joe) Joe said that he has enough profit in the job, that he will give you a mobilization check, for the money he owes you, as soon as we start the job.

Fine and dandy with me! So I sign another contract with him, as he had added the money owed, on the estimate that I had sent him, OK.

So months go by and this new job has not started. I go to his office again, and I get the sob story that he didn't get the job.

Months go by again, and we've had enough. We take him to small claims court. As we have a witness, the employee that called me, is with us in court. This guy doesn't show up, so we win the suit. The judge informs us that he has 10 days to file an appeal, and if he doesn't file one, that in 30 days, we can file a Writ of Execution, and the constable will go and collect the money for us.

Well, 6 weeks go by, so I call the constables office. I find out that this guy's attorney, has filed a Writ of Cirtiorary, which means, that he's filed an appeal to a higher court.

I have talked to a few attorneys, and they want anywhere from $3500 to $5000 to take on the case. I just don't have that kind of money... the GC's got it. I had gone to another attorney Tuesday, and he said that we could sue him for breach of contract on the job that we never started, but he's the one that wants the 5k...

What do y'all think? Should we do it on our own? I need some feedback please.....


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## Cotton06 (Jul 9, 2011)

Yes I have been caught up in a similar situation and I have to say there is no easy way out. I'm doing some research on how to prevent this from happening. I had a Judge tell me to never sign a waiver until the payment was made. Which we all no is hard to do because the banks wont release the money until they have the waiver. Do you know the name and address of the bank?


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

Cotton06 said:


> Yes I have been caught up in a similar situation and I have to say there is no easy way out. I'm doing some research on how to prevent this from happening. I had a Judge tell me to never sign a waiver until the payment was made. Which we all no is hard to do because the banks wont release the money until they have the waiver. Do you know the name and address of the bank?


I can get it. I have done other work for the owner of the building.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Tex,

What you need to use is a "conditional" waver wherein the condition is the receipt of a SPECIFIC sum of money. Then provide the "unconditional" version after the check clears. Make the waver an identified part of your contract. If that format is not allowed then no dice. 

PM your email and I will send you a copy of the one I use. 

You likely have a winable case in court though because the execution of any waver conveys the idea that you have been compensated. DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

That dirty bugger !!!!

How much does this clown owe you ?

Here we have to provide the bank and gc with a statutory declaration stating that material has been paid before they release a check

Clearly this GC has committed fraud. 

I would have to see what it says in the release that you signed. Does it say you were paid in full and that you release the GC and any other of financial debt or obligations?

If you did sign some thing like that then you are S.H.I.T. out of luck

I guess your relation ship with this GC is over now that it all went legal. To bad because there is other ways to get your money from a scum bag like this. 

I would hire a lawyer. To review your case. 

Get his opinion on the release you signed. 

And see if you have a leg to stand on

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*how much money???*



plbgbiz said:


> Tex,
> 
> What you need to use is a "conditional" waver wherein the condition is the receipt of a SPECIFIC sum of money. Then provide the "unconditional" version after the check clears. Make the waver an identified part of your contract. If that format is not allowed then no dice.
> 
> ...


 
the guy made you sign some form of lien waiver and its been months since the work was completed.....:blink::blink:

I had the same thing happen to me back in the mid 90s....
they owed me some money and tried to entice me into not 
fileing a lien by promiseing me a few other big jobs.......


*Beware...this other guy (your buddy) has lied to you and strung you along and is probably in bed with the GC.. *
*my bet is this was probably their plan all along .....*
at least in this state you cannot file a lien after 60 days on the property


YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST USE AN ATTOURNEY or the judge will simply laugh you out of court..... if they owe you 25k, then you better *swallow your pride* and find a cheap attourney before much more time goes by 


it just depends on how much money is involved, we had to go after a builder that owed us 30k... we ended up getting 25k
and were happy to get it because he went under a few months later.....the only reason we got that money is because of the lawyer and the lawsuit tieing up his assets....


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Sorry to hear you were screwed over , to keep this from happening in the future you need to set the job up to make three draws rough,topout , setout. That would keep you from getting screwed as bad. Don't ever sign a unconditional waiver of any kind intill you get your money, plbgbiz has a great point about the conditional waiver.Put all this into your job proposal and make them sign this before you begin work.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

I get a check when i sign the waiver.
I have never been told to sign before the bank would give them the money, but this because we usually do smaller residential.

I would think I will meet u at the bank, the gc can me a check on faith that he gets a check I have a contract and work for him not the bank. The bank is his problem.
I am loving getting deposits.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Txmasterplumber said:


> Like most of us probably have had, I've got a GC that I had done a commercial job for, and finished April, 2010. It took him until mid Oct. to pay the supply house, and I never got a check. I had got a call from them saying that they finally had a check. So I go to their office and sign a "Unconditional waiver and release of lein". So I ask, where's the check. I get an answer, "the bank needs the final release, before they will cut the checks". I was kinda pissed, but he has never **rewed me before. Weeks go by, and no check.
> 
> I kept getting the song and dance about how the job "cost me money" and I'll pay you in a couple months.... It cost him money, so as soon as the jobs done, he goes and buys a Hummer?
> 
> ...


Crap like this just frost my azz !
This jack wad set you up, and took advantage of your good nature. 

This guy need to get his face smashed !
I cant believe after he screwed you on the first job he had the nerve to try to sucker you into a second job !

I say you do every thing you can to put this guy out of business. 
If you have proof of him offering to "co-mingle " funds from different jobs you may have him by the short hairs.
I don't know contractor law in your state , But I can tell you with absolute certainty that in California they will REVOKE your license for using money from one job to start or complete another job.

I'd go after this guy with guns a blazing !!!


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

The other day my boss was about to sign a release of lein for the bank without a check...we talked him out of it and the GC paid us.


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## luv2plumb (Apr 30, 2010)

I don't sign anything without a copy of the check......I have even went to one GC's office with our Notary and had them put the check on the table then we signed the release.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I will tell you a story of a time when I did it myself

The job was for a very large automotive repair shop and we had the plumbing and heating part of the contract..

We received all the progress draws on time until close to the end of the job….

When I went in to get the check… the GC said he doesn’t have the money… I knew he was paid ….and I told him that.

Well he says “do what you think you got to do” and that was the end of it.

So I immediately went to the lawyers office and filed a lien on the property…

Little did I know that my so called lawyer was under investigation for insurance fraud and was about to be charged and disbarred from the law society.

So now I did have a lien but no longer had a lawyer…. So I took over the case…

As time passed none of the other trades put a lien the property and apparently they can shelter under my lien…so everybody was relying on me to see this through or nobody got paid..

So the first creditors meeting came along…. And all the players were there along with their lawyers….

The lawyers decided that all the lawyers would meet first in the conference room and the contractors remaining the lobby..

Seeing I was representing my own corporation and no longer had a lawyer .. they had to invite me in to the lawyer only discussion.

Well this is what took place.

The lawyers first discussed the amount of money left in the pot and got a final figure….

Then the real shocker happen….. the didn’t discuss what their clients were owed but how much their legal bill was and that there is not enough money in the pot to cover legal cost…

I just sat back and listen to them going back and forward only being worried about themselves…

Then finally they turn to me and say that my $ 25,000 would be brought down to $ 5,000… so they can get paid…

I told them straight out that this was not going to happen….. because with out my lien nobody had a leg to stand on..

They said the will give me a couple of days to think about it … if not they would do a motion in court to have me pay every ones legal cost into court…

I am thinking what the hell I am the injured party and now they are making me out to be the bad guy..

So a few days later on of the other lawyers calls me asking if I though it over and I told him there was nothing to think over .. I made my mind up on my first answer.

So a couple of more days pass and I get a registered letter stating that if by such a date if I didn’t give in they were going to do a motion in court to get me to pay all the legal fees..

So no problem I sent them all a registered letter back stating that I though that was a great idea and at the same time I would do my own motion and have each and everybody involved pay the same amount into the court… this way the guilty party will ultimately be paying and everyone else gets their money back…

Eventually, after they tried this I told them I get my full amount or I pull my lien and everybody loses…… they new I was serious…. And it never went to trial and I got my full amount……


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Not many people would have the stamina, or patience of Old School, to be their own lawyer. I got a couple good customer friends, who are judges. They say they get asked all the time, by people " I can't afford a lawyer, so how can I plan my own case" ? The judge always tells them, the only thing they can plan, is losing.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> I will tell you a story of a time when I did it myself
> 
> Eventually, after they tried this I told them I get my full amount or I pull my lien and everybody loses…… they new I was serious…. And it never went to trial and I got my full amount……


 
congrads...

you got very lucky


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> That dirty bugger !!!!
> 
> How much does this clown owe you ?
> 
> ...


Owes around $5700.00, including the money still owed to the supply house for their finance charges, bill was due May '10, didn't pay till Oct '10... i'm not paying it.. 

and as far as the relationship, hell yes it's over.. I don't need any more of his BS and not paying... I did get ahold of him once on the phone, it was a Saturday morning... shocked the hell out of me that he answered.. I asked about a check, got the same song and dance. I lost it, I told him "you never intended me to pay me, and all your crying about how the job "cost you money", and what do you do after the jobs done.... you go and buy a Hummer" He says that it's used, and frankly, it's none of my business... "Hell yey it's my business, You used my money to buy the damn thing".... in which he reply's " Your not the only one I owe money to from that job"... it makes me feel a lttle better knowing that I'm not the only one you screwed!

IMHO, which i've said for years: homebuilders and GC call themeselves "Builders", but they are nothing more than a gloryfied check writer... they get all us poor saps to do all the work, to make them look good, and they make all the money.

I don't begrudge any man to make an honest living, but i'm tired of getting screwed. In the last 5 years, i've had 3 other "builders" screw me: $11,000, $9800, $1000, and now his $5700. I just can't do it any more. There has got to be a point where a man say's, "enough is enough". 

I'm just a man, who wants to make an honest living. Guess it would be different, if I could claim them on my taxes!


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> That dirty bugger !!!!
> 
> 
> _"Clearly this GC has committed fraud."_
> ...


_"_


I was raised, like many of you i'm sure, that if you give a someone your word, you do what you said that you would..... I'm learning the hard way, I guess, that it really doesn't matter what you say... never again though.

I did send him and the owner, a registered letter of "intent to Lein".... got a call from him saying that he would have a check in the next couple weeks, and if I "Lein'd the property", it would take 8 to 10 months till I got paid.....(again, I should not beleive anything i'm told)


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

This is one of the times I am happy to not be a plumbing contractor that deals with projects like that. Thank you for putting that information up here, so that if it ever comes up I can be properly prepared. 

For all the ups and downs, service and small scale remodeling are a good fit for me and my area. 

Hope it all works out for you, sue the crap out of him. A contractor like that does not deserve to be in business.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

This is what I would do

First off I would ruin his credit rating

Get a hold of Dixon they are a collection agency and they will hound this guy and his family and make answering his phone a nightmare

Then I would take all those other dead accounts and place them in collections

Dixon pays to take them to court so no legal expense to you

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*file the damn lein*



Txmasterplumber said:


> Owes around $5700.00, including the money still owed to the supply house for their finance charges, bill was due May '10, didn't pay till Oct '10... i'm not paying it..
> 
> 
> I don't begrudge any man to make an honest living, but i'm tired of getting screwed. In the last 5 years, i've had 3 other "builders" screw me: $11,000, $9800, $1000, and now his $5700. I just can't do it any more. There has got to be a point where a man say's, "enough is enough".
> ...


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Nice guys Finnish last

And business is business 

Never extend anyone. And if they don't pay go after them with every thing you got. Liens. Credit reporting , file a claim with the courts. Collection agency. Charging them with fraud

Did I miss anything else other than laying a beating to them

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*a beating would be good*



OldSchool said:


> Nice guys Finnish last
> 
> And business is business
> 
> ...


 
people like that need and deserve a reall good beating 
but the problem is most skumbags are armed and waiting 
for someone to try


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

On another note....

if money is promised .... then ask for a letter comittment from the bank or a letter of direction from the lawyer that is going to recieve funds from bank...

If none are these are given then don't sign anything


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## Cotton06 (Jul 9, 2011)

Txmasterplumber said:


> "[/U][/I]
> 
> 
> I was raised, like many of you i'm sure, that if you give a someone your word, you do what you said that you would..... I'm learning the hard way, I guess, that it really doesn't matter what you say... never again though.
> ...



I would send a letter of lien to him and to the people who are in the building where the work was done. Theft of labor works good if you move fast and thirty days doesnt pass bye. If you send a letter to the owners or occupants of the building they get nervous and apply pressure to the GC


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

*Update!!!*

Well, we did finally find an Attorney, friend of a friend, that took the case on. We had gone to court 4 times, and each time the opposing counsel seeked a continuance. The first time in court, after we had sent his attny. the questions (can't think of the name of them) we also sent them to the court, was told we had to by a another friend. The judge recommended, if agreed by both parties, to go to mediation. We both agreed. 

Here's where the other 3 continuances go into play. Last time, said his client didn't have the funds for mediation.... like we did... he didn't pay, remember. Anyway, we finally went to mediation on Tuesday, and after we gave our terms, they grabbed it. Didn't even try to talk the price down. His attny. had sent our Attny. an email saying that they were ready to settle with payment that day. Well, they agreed to the monetary price, but, wanted to pay in 2 payments, cashiers check on the 28th of this month, and one on Feb.13th. 

So, hopefully getting 2/3rds on the 28th, and 1/3 on Feb. 13th. 

We have another court date on the 30th, but going to ask for 30 day continuance, until funds paid.

Hopefully, God willing, this will finally be over soon. May 20, will be 3 years that we finished the job.

It's sad that you have to learn, job at a time, how not to trust people.

Bruce


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Txmasterplumber said:


> Well, we did finally find an Attorney, friend of a friend, that took the case on. We had gone to court 4 times, and each time the opposing counsel seeked a continuance. The first time in court, after we had sent his attny. the questions (can't think of the name of them) we also sent them to the court, was told we had to by a another friend. The judge recommended, if agreed by both parties, to go to mediation. We both agreed.
> 
> Here's where the other 3 continuances go into play. Last time, said his client didn't have the funds for mediation.... like we did... he didn't pay, remember. Anyway, we finally went to mediation on Tuesday, and after we gave our terms, they grabbed it. Didn't even try to talk the price down. His attny. had sent our Attny. an email saying that they were ready to settle with payment that day. Well, they agreed to the monetary price, but, wanted to pay in 2 payments, cashiers check on the 28th of this month, and one on Feb.13th.
> 
> ...


I hope you got interest on that too. My contract has my state maximum interest rate for late payments. It's even better when they write you a check that bounces. That there is a crime, over 5k is a felony


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> I hope you got interest on that too. My contract has my state maximum interest rate for late payments. It's even better when they write you a check that bounces. That there is a crime, over 5k is a felony


Yeah, we got interest. We actually got a judgement back last June in JP court, but he fought it, and that's where we wound up in Dallas Court. Even got interest from June till now. 
The check's are to be "Cashiers Checks", so they shouldn't bounce.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Glad to see you got your money back!


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

Was through mediation last year with a H.O. Offered a discount to get settled with a condition that if not payed in 45 days the discount would not be available. H.O. signed and on the 45th day I had
a cashiers check.


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## jasonp (Jan 24, 2013)

The gc did not pay my boss. He went out and cut all the pipes out and brought them back. I never heard anything else about it.:thumbsup:


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Txmasterplumber said:


> Well, we did finally find an Attorney, friend of a friend, that took the case on. We had gone to court 4 times, and each time the opposing counsel seeked a continuance. The first time in court, after we had sent his attny. the questions (can't think of the name of them) we also sent them to the court, was told we had to by a another friend. The judge recommended, if agreed by both parties, to go to mediation. We both agreed.
> 
> Here's where the other 3 continuances go into play. Last time, said his client didn't have the funds for mediation.... like we did... he didn't pay, remember. Anyway, we finally went to mediation on Tuesday, and after we gave our terms, they grabbed it. Didn't even try to talk the price down. His attny. had sent our Attny. an email saying that they were ready to settle with payment that day. Well, they agreed to the monetary price, but, wanted to pay in 2 payments, cashiers check on the 28th of this month, and one on Feb.13th.
> 
> ...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

fixitright said:


> Was through mediation last year with a H.O. Offered a discount to get settled with a condition that if not payed in 45 days the discount would not be available. H.O. signed and on the 45th day I had
> a cashiers check.


Who let this unliensced inspecter in here? Correct me if I'm wrong..


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> Who let this unliensced inspecter in here? Correct me if I'm wrong..


He's a Trud Herder, as are other members here.


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

i had the same thing and they paid. But then the dumbass had the balls to call and ask me to do more work for him.[/QUOTE]

Well, we had signed another contract to do another job for them. He added the money owed from previous job, to new job, and said would pay a "mobilization" check when we started the new job, to pay off the old job. Thing is, even though we have a signed contract, for said job, he never got it. 
So i've been told that we could sue for breech of contract on that one.

Tomorrow will tell......


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Who let this unliensced inspecter in here? Correct me if I'm wrong..


Looks like your right...... not me!!


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