# Leak in Ceiling



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Had a residential service call with a leak in the ceiling. When I ran the tub, I found water leaking from tub drain. Upon removing the tub strainer, I found no sealant. Not one molecule of plumber's putty. Not even silicone. The tub had been re-finished in the past. I suspect that the tub re-finisher company removed the strainer and failed to replace it with any sealant.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

How long did it take for the tub to start leaking?


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

We do these factory built homes feild installs. The guys in the factory never use silicone, instead they use the plumbers putty. every single one that we have done the tub and shower drains leak. Now I pull the drains apart and silicone them before I even run water. It is common with home owner installs aswell. Some Home stores own wonder brands even say no caulk or putty needed. If I show up and it is one of those cheap one. I tell them to return and I'll give them mine at a deal. I might not make the $5 on mark up, but I save the lost $60.00 of a possible call back. If they say no I make them sign a sheet that says no warrentee on customer supplied items.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Dpeckplb said:


> We do these factory built homes field installs. The guys in the factory never use silicone, instead they use the plumbers putty. every single one that we have done the tub and shower drains leak. Now I pull the drains apart and silicone them before I even run water.


So you have guys in a factory that probably aren't even plumbers, and have probably never even heard that their installations are leaking, making a case for leaking tub drains with plumbers putty?

I have used Plumbers Putty on tub drains for over 30 years without leaks...
I wonder why that is?

Could it be that I make sure all the tub connections are centered on the hole in the tub?

Could it be that I make sure that all the tubing lengths are at the proper length so the tubing fits together in a relaxed manner?

Could it be that I use the right amount of plumbers putty?

Could it be that I properly tighten the drain which is impossible if too much plumbers putty is used?

You're right! I'm gonna stop plumbing right, and just start gluing in drains with sillycone....:thumbup:

Pass me a SharkBite please...:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


>


Damn Tommy....

That's a pretty fine homemade dumbbell wrench you have there...:thumbup:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Damn Tommy....
> 
> That's a pretty fine homemade dumbbell wrench you have there...:thumbup:


Thought the same thing


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

Redwood said:


> So you have guys in a factory that probably aren't even plumbers, and have probably never even heard that their installations are leaking, making a case for leaking tub drains with plumbers putty?
> 
> I have used Plumbers Putty on tub drains for over 30 years without leaks...
> I wonder why that is?
> ...


I wasn't saying plumbers putty shouldn't be used, just that I've had better luck with silicone. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Our company has nothing to do with the factory. We are hired by the company to do the mechanical in the field. There is no way these guys in the factory are plumbers. But because these houses are CSA approved and factory built they are not inspected of anything above. They have been told that the drains leak and I was told by the plumbing manager there that they don't care its on our company cause they cant test them. These yahoo's put the very minimal amout of putty which by the time that they tighten it in only is about a 1/4 of the way around the chrome waste. I have a picture somewhere. And yes I have used plumbers putty before.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Damn Tommy....
> 
> That's a pretty fine homemade dumbbell wrench you have there...:thumbup:












It has a 1" copper male adapter for the head which fits perfectly in a tub strainer or a K/S basket strainer. Too big for the little bar sink strainers though.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Damn Tommy....
> 
> That's a pretty fine homemade dumbbell wrench you have there...:thumbup:














If you like that, you might like this:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

AKdaplumba said:


> How long did it take for the tub to start leaking?













I don't know. I work for the property mgmt company. The call was for a leak from the ceiling.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> Had a residential service call with a leak in the ceiling. When I ran the tub, I found water leaking from tub drain. Upon removing the tub strainer, I found no sealant. Not one molecule of plumber's putty. Not even silicone. The tub had been re-finished in the past. I suspect that the tub re-finisher company removed the strainer and failed to replace it with any sealant.


Nice tub wrench


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> It has a 1" copper male adapter for the head which fits perfectly in a tub strainer or a K/S basket strainer. Too big for the little bar sink strainers though.


Florida's school maybe? I have one similar but made from 1" galvanize pipe :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## natonlindo (May 2, 2014)

oh boy... imagine 430 rooms. 
this is one that my team has seen a couple of times. house keepers sometimes have to remove (dig), hair and other materials from the bath drain; I think this is the main reason for gasket to fail, based on friction.
so at the end of the day plumbers putty or silicone would have failed under the daily friction. 
once we did some renovations (external project) to the rooms, "leaking shower ceiling was a big issue: (10 floor towers) some drain nuts were under tightened, while others were over tightened until the threading is damaged (completely rubbed down). 

still when all is said and done; I would say silicone is better than putty!


Respect


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Redwood said:


> Damn Tommy....
> 
> That's a pretty fine homemade dumbbell wrench you have there...:thumbup:


Yes nice lookin smart dumbbell wrench


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Gargalaxy said:


> Florida's school maybe? I have one similar but made from 1" galvanize pipe :thumbsup::thumbsup:


Same here, holes drilled so u can stick a screwdriver for extra levelarge


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## UA22PLumber (Sep 17, 2012)

Silicone, putty ....nothing....as far as leaks go - it doesn't matter...... the joint is made water tight by the rubber gasket on the underside of the tub, and how tightly the grid is screwed into the boot.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

UA22PLumber said:


> Silicone, putty ....nothing....as far as leaks go - it doesn't matter...... the joint is made water tight by the rubber gasket on the underside of the tub, and how tightly the grid is screwed into the boot.


That is a strange thing to say


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

UA22PLumber said:


> Silicone, putty ....nothing....as far as leaks go - it doesn't matter...... the joint is made water tight by the rubber gasket on the underside of the tub, and how tightly the grid is screwed into the boot.


Uhhhh, how would the seal be on the underside when the water is coming from above? Sorry that is wrong. The seal is on top.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

love2surf927 said:


> Uhhhh, how would the seal be on the underside when the water is coming from above? Sorry that is wrong. The seal is on top.


Then why is the rubber on the bottom?


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Then why is the rubber on the bottom?


 Same concept as a basket strainer, if you remove the rubber gasket it will seal fine as long as the top is sealed properly. I would say the purpose of the rubber is to give something for the nut, or whatever your tightening something to bite into, otherwise when the nut comes loose even the least little bit it will start to leak. With the rubber if it loosens up some it will still be tight because it is compressed.

Best way I can describe it, I'm sure you have a better explanation biz because I know you know better.


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## Archie (Mar 5, 2014)

The rubber gasket on the bottom seals the tub to the drain but I always silicone under the strainer too so water cant bypass the plug and empty the tub down the drain. If its an acrylic tub I also silicone both sides of the rubber gasket and have never had one leak.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

UA22PLumber said:


> Silicone, putty ....nothing....as far as leaks go - it doesn't matter...... the joint is made water tight by the rubber gasket on the underside of the tub, and how tightly the grid is screwed into the boot.


While the gasket on bottom is part of the sealing process for tub drains/basket strainers,I promise you that should you not use putty or silicone under the flange it will leak each and every time for sure
Me promise it will leak 10-4!!!!


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

I guess theoretically if you don't tape or dope the threads of the tub shoe you could get water on the underside without the rubber gasket. If you have taped and doped the threads and applied the putty correctly, and tightened it down good, in my mind the gasket is doing nothing but giving a little compression to keep the nut tight. 

I guess it is sealing the bottom side somewhat because when you drain a full bath that part is under a little pressure, but still if the threads are sealed and putty is applied correctly water should never get to that point.


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## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

I have never taped or doped the threads on the drain as they are not tapered to form a seal. The threads are only there to pull the gasket tight. Just like Archie said, I will silicone between drain and tub (so the tub won't empty with the plug in), silicone the top and bottom of the gasket, tighten it down and wipe away the extra silicone. We have hundreds in with no leaks.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

love2surf927 said:


> I guess theoretically if you don't tape or dope the threads of the tub shoe you could get water on the underside without the rubber gasket. If you have taped and doped the threads and applied the putty correctly, and tightened it down good, in my mind the gasket is doing nothing but giving a little compression to keep the nut tight.
> 
> I guess it is sealing the bottom side somewhat because when you drain a full bath that part is under a little pressure, but still if the threads are sealed and putty is applied correctly water should never get to that point.


Same here, that's the way I learned. Applied putty and doped the threads, never had any problem yet.


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## UA22PLumber (Sep 17, 2012)

Personally I use putty....see attached drawing ..to illustrate what I'm talking about.. What difference does it make if water runs by the threads?


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

It matters if water runs by threads b/c they are not slotted to find drain, like some shower strainers.... I agree no dope or tape on threads... Not tapered...you can do it, but it's not helping.


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

Why reinvent the wheel? Sure the thing may be fine with just the rubber gasket, but we all know from experience that with no putty or sillycone on top there's a good chance it will leak.


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

tim666 said:


> I have never taped or doped the threads on the drain as they are not tapered to form a seal. The threads are only there to pull the gasket tight. Just like Archie said, I will silicone between drain and tub (so the tub won't empty with the plug in), silicone the top and bottom of the gasket, tighten it down and wipe away the extra silicone. We have hundreds in with no leaks.


I am the same exact way.


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## MN Plumber Guy (May 7, 2014)

I always use just a little dope on the threads of shower drains as we'll, just to alleviate the plastic on plastic friction.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

There are plenty of times I use pipe dope as a thread lubricant not a sealant. A tub drain is one of those times.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

MN Plumber Guy said:


> I always use just a little dope on the threads of shower drains as we'll, just to alleviate the plastic on plastic friction.



I think it is useless to use pipe dope on the tub shoe threads and as long as I use putty or silicone under the flange I never have a leak,I mean really it's the same thing on a lab pop-up,it seals at the bottom but if you don't use putty or silicone under the flange it also will leak


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## MN Plumber Guy (May 7, 2014)

sparky said:


> I think it is useless to use pipe dope on the tub shoe threads and as long as I use putty or silicone under the flange I never have a leak,I mean really it's the same thing on a lab pop-up,it seals at the bottom but if you don't use putty or silicone under the flange it also will leak


I don't use it as a sealant. I use it as lubrication on threaded PVC. Makes tightening easier and smoother in my opinion.


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## Gargalaxy (Aug 14, 2013)

Russl02 said:


> For this type of problem we need to ask the plumbers about the materials which they are going to use.


And who are you?.....where is your intro?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Russl02 said:


> For this type of problem we need to ask the plumbers about the materials which they are going to use.


What makes you an expert here for saying that??


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

Redwood said:


> So you have guys in a factory that probably aren't even plumbers, and have probably never even heard that their installations are leaking, making a case for leaking tub drains with plumbers putty?
> 
> I have used Plumbers Putty on tub drains for over 30 years without leaks...
> I wonder why that is?
> ...


I dig Tommy's wrench, Dad was too cheap to use copper fittings like that, just had a pipe nipple cut to fit the bars in the spud. 

I've seen the tub shoe gaskets used under the strainer... and I never had any problems with plumber's putty either, and loved the smell.


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