# How would you handle this?



## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

We set a toilet months back. Hercules made a bad batch of johnnie rings. We went back and reset it. A few weeks later, she said it was leaking. So we went and checked it out. Admittedly, the grout appeared stained, but never did we see any water. We stuck TP under the rim. Didn't soak anything up. We pulled it anyway. Wax and flange were clean and dry. Set toilet. 

A few weeks later guess what...she called..."it's leaking again"

So I went to check it out. Again, stained wax. She pulls out her moisture meter. What?! She puts it on the tile and moves it around to show me that there's water under the tile. Ugh...I used blue painters tape and taped paper towel to the floor in front of the toilet. I pushed it under the China to make sure it would pick up water that leaked from the set. 

Additional info: 
-basement floor concrete with tile. 
-no hydrostatic pressure issues. Adjacent roman tub drain in ground. Hole is dry. 
-she has dogs, but they don't go down there and mark the area. (She says)
-thoroughly checked the toilet for hairline cracks. 

Now look at these.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Lazy pisser.


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## swidere (Feb 10, 2015)

ok it sounds like the bowl rocks how did you set it ? caulk the base ? try setting the bowl on plaster paris as a base this will form a base and stop any rocking that don't show up tightn the johny bolts that's it I had the same griff many times 475


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

Doesn't rock. Didn't caulk. I was the third plumber from our company on this.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

swidere said:


> ok it sounds like the bowl rocks how did you set it ? caulk the base ? try setting the bowl on plaster paris as a base this will form a base and stop any rocking that don't show up tightn the johny bolts that's it I had the same griff many times 475


Who are you to say this without an intro here??


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## JorgensenPlbg (Jul 12, 2010)

Set toilet using plumbers putty if it leaks its a bad bowl. Been using putty for toilets for 22 years and won't go back to wax. It's a ***** in winter to soften the putty!


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Is there one of those plastic extension flanges to raise it to floor level? They can leak if they don't have silicone between them sometimes.


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

Well I would pull and reset I've never heard of plumbers putty being used but to each his own usually one uses caulk or grout


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## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

Tank gasket? Or tank sweating?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

A bad batch of wax seals? That doesn't sound reasonable. How high is the flange? Something else might be going on.

If water is under the tile, there may be a leak in a wall nearby.


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

Yeah...maybe you all didn't get them, but when Hercules first switched over to trays from bags, the wax was super oily. It was nearly impossible to get adhesion no matter how clean the China was. 

The flange is high enough. It was roughed in for the tile floor. 

I just think it's crazy that the water is showing up in only around the FRONT of the bowl. And it's yellowish. I showed the lady the streaks and suggested that maybe her father, when he visited last week, had missed a little or dribbled. She called the office later and said that she had called her mom and she said "my dad did NOT pee on the floor"

We're just at a loss here. A master, a journeyman with a passed master test, and another journeyman(myself) have scoured this thing and it just seems like there's something going on here after hours that is throwing us off the scent(so to speak).


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

I thought about the China sweating. But when I've been there, it hasn't been wet. And it doesn't show signs other than the streaks on the front.


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## plungerboy (Oct 17, 2013)

How about doing a dye test to prove there is no leak. If you want to do it long term put one these blue hockey puck cleaners in the tank. The blue will be easier to see. Just my 2¥


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## Plumbersteve (Jan 25, 2011)

Great idea plunge!


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Plumbersteve said:


> Yeah...maybe you all didn't get them, but when Hercules first switched over to trays from bags, the wax was super oily. It was nearly impossible to get adhesion no matter how clean the China was.
> 
> The flange is high enough. It was roughed in for the tile floor.
> 
> ...


I had the exact same thing happen,went back replaced stop,still leaking,found a leak under the vanity where supply line was leaking,the water was running under tile over to toilet and it looked identical to water leaking from the wax ring,maybe something to check


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## titaniumplumbr (Jun 11, 2014)

I would check the supply and also the to tank to bowl sometimes it'll eek out that and follow a path to the lowest spot


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Did you use a flush fit flange? Seen a lot of these that did not use one leak under floor coverings.

Also use horned wax ring with about 50% of the horn cut off and another plain ring under that if the flange is not completely above the floor at the bottom of the flange.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Plus one on a spacer issue. If another spacer fits add it. 

Or bad ceramic casting. I would plug the outlet set it on a few buckets or something and fill it to the rim. I've had Kohlers leak from the casting. Plugged it with silly cone.

If all else use the blue tank garbage and see what happens.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Plumbersteve said:


> Yeah...maybe you all didn't get them, but when Hercules first switched over to trays from bags, the wax was super oily. It was nearly impossible to get adhesion no matter how clean the China was.
> 
> The flange is high enough. It was roughed in for the tile floor.
> 
> ...



we have been down this road before... if it is yellow then the old fart is pissing all over the place at night.... you should be able to smell it too.....but they wont admit it....


what you tell them is there could possibly be a pin hole in the china on the bowl and they need a new toilet.... tell them that is the only thing it can be...

then when he pisses down the new toilet in the night, you have got them dead to rights......

if they wont go for a new toilet just give them back their money and walk away... its not worth all the aggravation.......


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

titaniumplumbr said:


> Well I would pull and reset I've never heard of plumbers putty being used but to each his own usually one uses caulk or grout


Putty was used before wax. There are a few other guys on here that use it to. I have used it once for urinal in a pinch. Leak free going on three years


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## czplumbing (Nov 24, 2014)

I was going to say the same. had bad castings before on a toilet. it off and inspector the whole thing. Some sand may have got in the cast.


KoleckeINC said:


> Plus one on a spacer issue. If another spacer fits add it.
> 
> Or bad ceramic casting. I would plug the outlet set it on a few buckets or something and fill it to the rim. I've had Kohlers leak from the casting. Plugged it with silly cone.
> 
> If all else use the blue tank garbage and see what happens.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> give them back their money and walk away... its not worth all the aggravation.......


Master Mark all time favorite answer:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

sparky said:


> Master Mark all time favorite answer:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


sometimes it's the best way to handle a situation.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

sierra2000 said:


> sometimes it's the best way to handle a situation.



Oh I agree,just tryin to get a laugh,but he is right


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## TXPlumbBob (Dec 13, 2013)

The pics look like the old man is pissing all over the place. Like said the old lady will never admit it. We used to use red Rit Dye or Blue or Green, put some in the tank and bowl and ask that they do not flush. Should be able to see it in the am. 

Then IF there is no leak detected in around or under the bowl and her special handy dandy moisture meter is going haywire you need to tell her that the water is not coming from your work. Then tell her to find her moisture you will need to jackhammer her basement floor up so she can use her moisture meter on fresh dirt at the source. And hand her a bill for the 10 special trips you have all ready made back and forth. 

Just my opinion.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Here is a trick we used a couple of times on finding leaks.
Note this will only work on municipal treated water. 

Get some litmus strips suitable for chlorine. If the water changes the color
of the strip the leak is -- e.g. from the fixture or the piping. If does not change the color it is from another source. Maybe you can find litmus strip that urine will activate. Proof that the old-man did piss on the floor.


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

Did you ever consider a pin hole leak in the ceramic trap of the bowel?


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Several times leaking toilets have been toilets that have backed up. No one uses toilet paper until the plumber is gone. I have reworked flat pipe several times and the problem went away.


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## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

I had one this week. Same situation. It ended up being the radiant heat was too close to the flange and was melting away the wax. (Not my install).
We used one of those wax less seals and turned down the radiant temp 10°


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## IPSDENVER (May 2, 2014)

Could it be condensation? Dry air evaporating the water from the bowl, collects on the lid and drips down the front ? I have seen this once but not to this magnitude.


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## pianoplumber (Apr 19, 2014)

Politely offer them to get a second opinion.
You don't want to be the only plumber in town that accused her father of missing the toilet.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

Reminds me of a call for a sewer smell. Smoke test showed nothing, camera inspection shows all PVC from stack to main. House is 3 years old. 

Even went around seeing if sludgy build up in sink drains before the traps. Lady said she only smelled it in the mornings. 

Finally after a huge PITA customer I offered to pay for the second opinion if the next guy found and showed proof of something I was overlooking. 

Customers were elderly, their son called me after we left the fourth visit and said dad poops during the night and doesn't flush it


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## HonestPlumb (Jan 25, 2015)

Lots of good suggestions by everyone. However I think Plungerboy has it. Use the blue hockey puck. If rhe stain turns blus then it is probable a defective bowl, if you can't see a streak coming down from tank to bowl. Take it back, tell them it is defective and try a new bowl. I have had that happen. Never thought of the blue stuff. Just pulled the bowl,plugged the bottom with test plug and filled it up with water. Sure enough, defective bowl.


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Pow! Double charge!


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

HonestPlumb said:


> Lots of good suggestions by everyone. However I think Plungerboy has it. Use the blue hockey puck. If rhe stain turns blus then it is probable a defective bowl, if you can't see a streak coming down from tank to bowl. Take it back, tell them it is defective and try a new bowl. I have had that happen. Never thought of the blue stuff. Just pulled the bowl,plugged the bottom with test plug and filled it up with water. Sure enough, defective bowl.


Excellent!!!


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