# Learned something new today



## PlungerJockey

Some of you guys probaly already know this, so I'll share with those who don't.

I got a call from a customer with no hot water. The house is a little over 2 years old. In the garage they had 2 50 gallon Rheem powervent waterheaters. I had been referred by a competitor. He had already cleaned the burner assembly and the vents. He also replaced the combustable fume sensors and pointed out that there was a wasp nest in the vent.

I tried restarting both units, with no success. I called the Rheem service line. The tech basically told me the unit has to be reset. Duh!!

To reset these units:
1st - Turn off the power for 30 seconds
2nd - Turn power on
3rd - Rotate the the thermostat dial from vaction to the hottest setting 7 times, ( yes I said 7 times) after the 7th rotation leave the thermostat control at it's highest setting.

And presto it will fire right up. I had to do this to both units. I did'nt figure out why they went down. I'm thinking maybe they had some gas in the garage. They had been without hotwater since Thursday 5/27

I know you guys like pictures, here you go, enjoy


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## AKdaplumba

so what did you learn?


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## PlungerJockey

AKdaplumba said:


> so what did you learn?


How to reset a Rheem powervent, we don't see to many Rheem water heaters anymore.


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## njoy plumbing

S.S gas flex connectors? Just wrong.:no:


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## PLUMB TIME

Were they going to make a fire to heat the water?:laughing:


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## PlungerJockey

PLUMB TIME said:


> Were they going to make a fire to heat the water?:laughing:


It looked like it.


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## TheMaster

njoy plumbing said:


> S.S gas flex connectors? Just wrong.:no:


And WTF is so wrong about it?


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## Protech

I'd be more worried about those flex lines on the T/P valves. I bet they are connected to a galvanized nipple that is threaded into the T/P valve fuction. I see it all the time. IMHO, galvo should be banned as a T/P drain material.



TheMaster said:


> And WTF is so wrong about it?


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## OldSchool

What happen was there is a sensor for flamables on that hot water tank. The home owner must have used paint some where around the tank....such a painting floors or walls.

It shuts the tank down and can only be reset the way you described.

It has happen to me several times. Also had to call the manufacturer the first time as the manual tells you nothing about this type of shut down.


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## njoy plumbing

TheMaster said:


> And WTF is so wrong about it?


 They are a no no here. And whats with the WTF. A little crabby today:whistling2:


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## highpoint

flex connectors any where are garbage. because they save you 10 mins? 
makes your work look like the HO could have done it them selves. Where have all the tradesmen gone???? may as well use sharkbites too.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

i assume that galv. flu dropping out the ceiling is the fresh air. I dont think its adequate for those 2 units in a closet.


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## Turd Herder

njoy plumbing said:


> S.S gas flex connectors? Just wrong.:no:


why?


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## satelliteplumah

njoy plumbing said:


> S.S gas flex connectors? Just wrong.:no:


 I couldnt do flex connections and walk away, hardpipe union and gas cock from full size( prob 1") main, flexys are for ranges or hard to reach spots only. just screams lazy IMHO.


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## RW Plumbing

For all you people that don't like flex connectors, what about C.S.S.T.? Corrigated stainless steel tubing. Its the yellow flexable piping you can run instead of sch 40 black steel gas piping. Has to be bonded but, is alot faster than threading pipe.


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## RealLivePlumber

RW Plumbing said:


> For all you people that don't like flex connectors, what about C.S.S.T.? Corrigated stainless steel tubing. Its the yellow flexable piping you can run instead of sch 40 black steel gas piping. Has to be bonded but, is alot faster than threading pipe.


:laughing:


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## Tommy plumber

RW Plumbing said:


> For all you people that don't like flex connectors, what about C.S.S.T.? Corrigated stainless steel tubing. Its the yellow flexable piping you can run instead of sch 40 black steel gas piping. Has to be bonded but, is alot faster than threading pipe.


 
Maybe so, but lightning strikes to homes has resulted in holes in CSST. See here www.nbnnews.com/NBN/new/downloads/CSST_Report_Aug07.doc


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## TheMaster

highpoint said:


> flex connectors any where are garbage. because they save you 10 mins?
> makes your work look like the HO could have done it them selves. Where have all the tradesmen gone???? may as well use sharkbites too.


Flex connectors are required for some installations concerning GAS. Thank you for reading my post:thumbsup:

Below I have added a link. Click on it and look at the center picture on the left hand side and you will understand at least one instance that a flex gas connection is required.

http://www.dormont.com/dmc/foodservice/FoodService.aspx


There is another example....Can you name it? Its not a gas range or oven either.


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## liquidplumber

Generators....do I get a prize?


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## TheMaster

liquidplumber said:


> Generators....do I get a prize?


Well done:thumbsup: But sorry no prizes are to be given...maybe next time.


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## Ron

TheMaster said:


> Well done:thumbsup: But sorry no prizes are to be given...maybe next time.


Damit I want a prize I missed the boat. :laughing:


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## Tommy plumber

TheMaster said:


> Flex connectors are required for some installations concerning GAS. Thank you for reading my post:thumbsup:
> 
> Below I have added a link. Click on it and look at the center picture on the left hand side and you will understand at least one instance that a flex gas connection is required.
> 
> http://www.dormont.com/dmc/foodservice/FoodService.aspx
> 
> 
> There is another example....Can you name it? Its not a gas range or oven either.


OK I'll ask, why are generators required to be piped w/ flex connector? Vibration?


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

TheMaster said:


> Flex connectors are required for some installations concerning GAS. Thank you for reading my post:thumbsup:
> 
> Below I have added a link. Click on it and look at the center picture on the left hand side and you will understand at least one instance that a flex gas connection is required.
> 
> http://www.dormont.com/dmc/foodservice/FoodService.aspx
> 
> 
> There is another example....Can you name it? Its not a gas range or oven either.


only rice cooker here and they must be chained to the wall


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## RW Plumbing

Tommy plumber said:


> Maybe so, but lightning strikes to homes has resulted in holes in CSST. See here www.nbnnews.com/NBN/new/downloads/CSST_Report_Aug07.doc


 Thats why I said it has to be bonded. It gets an additional ground so as to prevent electricity even flowing through it. This is required by our code. :thumbsup:


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## Tommy plumber

RW Plumbing said:


> Thats why I said it has to be bonded. It gets an additional ground so as to prevent electricity even flowing through it. This is required by our code. :thumbsup:


 
While it is recognized that bonding of CSST to ground will reduce amount of energy contacting CSST in the event of a lighting strike, it won't eliminate it 100%. As a licensed plumbing contractor to another, why would you assume that risk? For a few extra dollars?


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## liquidplumber

Tommy plumber said:


> OK I'll ask, why are generators required to be piped w/ flex connector? Vibration?


Yes it is for vibration and it needs to be listed for this purpose, A standard flexible appliance connector will not cut it.


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## TheMaster

liquidplumber said:


> Yes it is for vibration and it needs to be listed for this purpose, A standard flexible appliance connector will not cut it.


Its no more than a rubber hose rated for natural gas with MIP or FIP fittings built on.....you can cut it with a pocket knife.


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## TheMaster

I typically make my own gas generator flex lines.


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## Tankless

Some states (mine) require those crappy flex connectors. For those who think it looks like a home owner hack job, come try and pass an inspection out here hard piping a standing water tank......


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## RW Plumbing

Tommy plumber said:


> While it is recognized that bonding of CSST to ground will reduce amount of energy contacting CSST in the event of a lighting strike, it won't eliminate it 100%. As a licensed plumbing contractor to another, why would you assume that risk? For a few extra dollars?


I guess I don't see the liability. If it is installed per code, I can't get hit for anything really. Then it becomes a code/manufacturer issue. Do you only install copper piping because plastic leaches into the water? Who knows what someone is going to come up with to sue you with. If you house starts on fire and you have PVC piping it produces toxic smoke.

My point is you can and should try to limit your liability where you can but, the code also protects you. As long as things are done to the letter of the code your butt is pretty well covered. People can sue you for anything, it's just a matter of who wins.


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## Tommy plumber

*RW Plumbing*

Yes true, true one can get sued for anything. But even if you win, you'll spend $ 1000's defending a lawsuit. I'd prefer to not get embroiled in one to begin with.


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## ZL700

TheMaster said:


> Flex connectors are required for some installations concerning GAS. Thank you for reading my post:thumbsup:
> 
> Below I have added a link. Click on it and look at the center picture on the left hand side and you will understand at least one instance that a flex gas connection is required.
> 
> http://www.dormont.com/dmc/foodservice/FoodService.aspx
> 
> 
> There is another example....Can you name it? Its not a gas range or oven either.


Manufactured housing/mobile homes also!

As a past volly firefighter, lighting strikes blow holes in black steel gas pipe too, seen it!


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## Protech

Funny you should mention that. I jest came from a call where that happened. The whole place was hard piped and it still blew a hole in it. If you turn the meter on it runs almost wide open .



ZL700 said:


> Manufactured housing/mobile homes also!
> 
> As a past volly firefighter, lighting strikes blow holes in black steel gas pipe too, seen it!


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## TheMaster

Nothing can stop it but plastic pipe......thats why the city uses plastic for the underground service lines here. I've seen it weld a washer and dryer together where they were touching and blow a chunk of concrete out of the foundation. Theres no limit to what a good strike can do. It will run through steel pipe and blow holes all in it.


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## stillaround

Im running some csst in an attic and 1st running an 1.5" pvc chase. The new black csst has a coating and a mesh. There is this fiberglass mesh stuff that really works insulating electric.......


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## RW Plumbing

PVC would work well only it isn't approved for above ground gas piping here.


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## stillaround

I dont know if its approved here...I will put the 2 lb. gas stickers on it. Right in this same neighborhood a lightning strike caused an arc from a can light and put a hole in the csst. The fire was put out quickly.


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## Asparta

RW Plumbing said:


> For all you people that don't like flex connectors, what about C.S.S.T.? Corrigated stainless steel tubing. Its the yellow flexable piping you can run instead of sch 40 black steel gas piping. Has to be bonded but, is alot faster than threading pipe.


 
I can't believe that you would use CSST for a gas main in a house. I only use it for final tie in's if I have to. If you are too lazy to thread a few joints of pipe, then what else are you too lazy to do? 

Where have all the tradespeople gone?


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## TheMaster

Asparta said:


> I can't believe that you would use CSST for a gas main in a house. I only use it for final tie in's if I have to. If you are too lazy to thread a few joints of pipe, then what else are you too lazy to do?
> 
> Where have all the tradespeople gone?


You cant believe it huh? Miles of the stuff has been installed...where ya been?


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## OldSchool

Come On..... Who in their right mind still runs Blk pipe for gas in a house?

All we use is CSST..... BLK from meter to inside then CSST to everything.

Its code approved and is rated for 5 PSI...... why wouldn't you use it.


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## nate75

About the csst. I worked for a company a couple years ago that used it. I never understood why the inspectors allowed the fittings to be concealed in the wall. Its a flare connection just like copper tubing flare connections. You cant conceal copper flare fittings, so why conceal csst fittings?? 
I never did conceal any of MY connections thing it was just GOOD PRACTICE. But those damn helpers:furious:


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## vinpadalino

I hate Rheem water heaters. I'm sure you'll be back replacing the gas valve or roll out switch. 
I didnt see any check valves on the hot water recirc line.?


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## GREENPLUM

vinpadalino said:


> I hate Rheem water heaters. I'm sure you'll be back replacing the gas valve or roll out switch.
> I didnt see any check valves on the hot water recirc line.?


you should check out " Wirlpool " at Home Depot or Lowes, anyone can buy them there for a fair price.

Dont use the Water Heater Installation service they offer, its a RIP OFF. Hire a real Plumber. :thumbsup:


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## Redwood

GREENPLUM said:


> you should check out " Wirlpool " at Home Depot or Lowes, anyone can buy them there for a fair price.
> 
> Dont use the Water Heater Installation service they offer, its a RIP OFF. Hire a real Plumber. :thumbsup:


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## vinpadalino

GREENPLUM said:


> you should check out " Wirlpool " at Home Depot or Lowes, anyone can buy them there for a fair price.
> 
> Dont use the Water Heater Installation service they offer, its a RIP OFF. Hire a real Plumber. :thumbsup:


OK! Only if you get a GE water heater looser.


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## Protech

Why, you gonna tighten it for him? :laughing:



vinpadalino said:


> OK! Only if you get a GE water heater looser.


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## PaulW

Whirlpool are having their troubles with gas valves as well.

Paul


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## RW Plumbing

Asparta said:


> I can't believe that you would use CSST for a gas main in a house. I only use it for final tie in's if I have to. If you are too lazy to thread a few joints of pipe, then what else are you too lazy to do?
> 
> Where have all the tradespeople gone?


 Who said I use it for gas main? I use it when I have to run a branch line. If I have to do lots of piping I use black and break out the threader. If I have to run a few feet of pipe, it's stupid to break out all the tools to thread pipe. Besides, embracing new technologies is a good way to keep ahead of your competition. It allows you to do work more efficiently and keep costs down. Continue doing everything the old way, and you'll be left behind. 

Why don't you thread galvanized pipe for people's water distribution or pour all lead joints for cast iron waste piping. Plumbers said the same thing about PVC which is pretty much standard for DWV residentially here.


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## Redwood

PaulW said:


> Whirlpool are having their troubles with gas valves as well.
> 
> Paul


Them Whirlpoo water heaters are having all kinds of trouble...:laughing:
FVIR, Gas Valves... And have a look at those Energy Smart electrics they make too... :whistling2:


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## plbgbiz

OldSchool said:


> Come On..... Who in their right mind still runs Blk pipe for gas in a house?.......... why wouldn't you use it.


City of Edmond, OK sent a letter to all plumbing contractors about a year or more ago. They were requesting that we all report to them every house where we encounter CSST already installed. To that date, they had 6 or so house fires that were lightening/CSST related. SUPPOSEDLY they just wanted to see what their level of risk was. Sounded like they were starting to build a case and I for one would rather read about it in the paper than have to review my deposition.

Hmmm...I think I'm in my right mind.  

Needs to be a pretty special situation for me to go with CSST now. I really love to try new stuff but that doesn't always mean I stick with it. Potential risk is still risk.


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