# Something to be said for just being honest



## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Even when a job goes to hell, if you do the right thing you can keep the customers trust.
I did a sewer lining about 6 months ago that burst on me in the ground. I didn't try to hide it or bull**** her and couldn't really explain why it happened, I just owned up to it. It fully cured before I realized it turned out wrong so it cost me $8000 to have it fixed all the way to the street. 
She was understanding but I thought she would never call me again as she was a new customer and her first experience with me turned out bad.
To my surprise, I get a phone call from her this morning. She has a rental property that she wants me to check out and see if it needs a liner or just a good hydro jet.


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

Shooting straight keeps Karma off your butt. Honor is a good thing.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Yea, good life lesson there. People get angrier when a mistake is not owned up to. Probably saved yourself 8k in lawyer fees....


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Nice job. I have total respect for you for doing the right thing. Sometimes it costs us but peace of mind and integrity are priceless.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Ah! The difference between a true professional and just a pro


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

sierra2000 said:


> Even when a job goes to hell, if you do the right thing you can keep the customers trust.
> I did a sewer lining about 6 months ago that burst on me in the ground. I didn't try to hide it or bull**** her and couldn't really explain why it happened, I just owned up to it. It fully cured before I realized it turned out wrong so it cost me $8000 to have it fixed all the way to the street.
> She was understanding but I thought she would never call me again as she was a new customer and her first experience with me turned out bad.
> To my surprise, I get a phone call from her this morning. She has a rental property that she wants me to check out and see if it needs a liner or just a good hydro jet.


Is there any money in relining pipes???it has never went over here in ky and the only time I been around someone lining a pipe was in a nursing home and it didn't do right and had to be dug up.people round here would rather pay for new installs than to pay more for a lining that May or may not work.i never done it and never will,rather just replace and go on.oh,and that was professional of you to bite the bullit rather than lie,but it seemed you had no other choice really


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

There's great money to be made in lining. Sometimes digging may be the better or only option. There is a learning curve and even then some can still go wrong. I've had 5 go bad for one reason or another, some so minor as overshooting a few inches into the main and having to trim it later, to the liner curing outside of the pipe on me and having to pull the whole thing out, then 2 for reasons I've yet to explain that just seem to have exploded inside the pipe. I'm not going to write them off as not a good solution though. On this one the line exploded towards the end but was still able to pass water and solids.
There are some companies out here, I've heard, that use their disclaimer page to back out of responsibility if something goes wrong, even it's user error.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

sierra2000 said:


> There are some companies out here, I've heard, that use their disclaimer page to back out of responsibility if something goes wrong, even it's user error.


Contracts look really good, but any judge can toss it out. Look at all the contracts you sign when you're in the hospital, but one thing goes wrong and you get hurt, the hospital and the doctor pays up regardless what that paper says.

Best practice is what you been doing.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

sierra2000 said:


> There's great money to be made in lining. Sometimes digging may be the better or only option. There is a learning curve and even then some can still go wrong. I've had 5 go bad for one reason or another, some so minor as overshooting a few inches into the main and having to trim it later, to the liner curing outside of the pipe on me and having to pull the whole thing out, then 2 for reasons I've yet to explain that just seem to have exploded inside the pipe. I'm not going to write them off as not a good solution though. On this one the line exploded towards the end but was still able to pass water and solids.
> There are some companies out here, I've heard, that use their disclaimer page to back out of responsibility if something goes wrong, even it's user error.


What kind of system are you using? I just looked at a lining job where it was a pull in place liner. After the wetted out the liner they pulled it in and the resins came off the liner. Basically creating a plug


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

I have the Quik Shot. Speaking of pull in place. How do you feel about it. Ive been hesitant to purchase it because of that reason. But there are some jobs that can benefit by just repairing one area.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

sierra2000 said:


> I have the Quik Shot. Speaking of pull in place. How do you feel about it. Ive been hesitant to purchase it because of that reason. But there are some jobs that can benefit by just repairing one area.


Im probably going to get spanked for this but here it goes. I have dedicated my lifes work to learning trenchless. Im talking its advantages and its pitfalls. Im not claiming to be a world re-known expert but have a pretty good understanding. My biggest problem with pull in place liners is as your pulling the liner the resins are being disturbed. Also if your pulling a distance and hang up on anything your time is very limited.I truly dont believe that when you invert the liner that it seals against the pipe like it should. I think the biggest problem I see in any lining process is how the liner is wet out. I know a lot of people use the roller method on a piece of visions on the ground. We switched to the roller table method and I have to say our quality and installation rate has gone way up. With the table method you can see a lot better if the liner is properly wetted out. Also I think a lot of guys try to mix everything to an exact t. I believe if you dont have waste you mixed to lightly. Lining is a great system but I dont believe the manufactures have got it down like they say they do. Especially in the case of stretch.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

bulldozer said:


> Im probably going to get spanked for this but here it goes. I have dedicated my lifes work to learning trenchless. Im talking its advantages and its pitfalls. Im not claiming to be a world re-known expert but have a pretty good understanding. My biggest problem with pull in place liners is as your pulling the liner the resins are being disturbed. Also if your pulling a distance and hang up on anything your time is very limited.I truly dont believe that when you invert the liner that it seals against the pipe like it should. I think the biggest problem I see in any lining process is how the liner is wet out. I know a lot of people use the roller method on a piece of visions on the ground. We switched to the roller table method and I have to say our quality and installation rate has gone way up. With the table method you can see a lot better if the liner is properly wetted out. Also I think a lot of guys try to mix everything to an exact t. I believe if you dont have waste you mixed to lightly. Lining is a great system but I dont believe the manufactures have got it down like they say they do. Especially in the case of stretch.


Exactly. It's being drug with the resin being scraped off literally. I think on larger pipe it has rollers to keep it centered and off the bottom. The system I have comes with a roller stand and a calibration dial built into it so you get the liner wetted out to the manufactures specs. I try to stay away from liners that stretch a lot.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

bulldozer said:


> What kind of system are you using? I just looked at a lining job where it was a pull in place liner. After the wetted out the liner they pulled it in and the resins came off the liner. Basically creating a plug


This is why I have gotten close to pulling the trigger on different lining systems but then always back off.

There just seems to be so much of it left in the hands of Aunt Karma. And she can be a very unruly biotch.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> This is why I have gotten close to pulling the trigger on different lining systems but then always back off.
> 
> There just seems to be so much of it left in the hands of Aunt Karma. And she can be a very unruly biotch.


Hahaha. No guts no glory. You have to have deep pockets sometimes with lining. Its an awesome system when it goes right. But when it goes bad look out!!!! I guess the biggest problem I see is the training as when they teach you its in a controlled environment. 2. If you dont do it every day you get out of sync with it. Still enjoy the pucker effect of bursting much better.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> This is why I have gotten close to pulling the trigger on different lining systems but then always back off. There just seems to be so much of it left in the hands of Aunt Karma. And she can be a very unruly biotch.


The resin washing off wouldn't happen with inversion types, just the pull and push in place packers when doing spot repairs.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

bulldozer said:


> ...Still enjoy the pucker effect of bursting much better.


Same here. Most of the bad things on bursting are things I can control or plan for.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

plbgbiz said:


> Same here. Most of the bad things on bursting are things I can control or plan for.


Went to my doctor for a physical the other day and he recommended the rear scope. Then he says oh? Your in trenchless? You won't need it your probably in good shape.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

How much is the quick shot setup if you dont mind? Debating on getting Pipe patch, and trying to figure out whats better.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

stecar said:


> How much is the quick shot setup if you dont mind? Debating on getting Pipe patch, and trying to figure out whats better.


Not sure what the quick shot goes for but I recently bought the pipe patch system. Its been a good system. Mike moore is also an excellent instructor and really knows his product.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Thanks, my rep is Chad. Just not sure if an entire relining machine is the way to go. How many are you guys doing of the patch?


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Chad is a good guy to! We just got into it a month ago. I bought it for a specific job. Now that we have it we are really starting to sell them.I talked to a contractor not to far from me that has a crew that does 12-15 per week. I dont see doing that kind of volume but I have been getting a few municipal calls.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Heres my honest opinion of a reline system. If your going to market it live it and really push it it can be lucrative. Many guys think if they have the equipment they will come. Not so true. You have to really market hard and pay your dues. When you get it rolling and work the bugs out you can make some good money. The article in cleaner magazine about the burst in Montana is a good friend of mine. He also does relining. To this day he says he will only line if he can't burst it.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

I'd start with the pipe patch first. It's not too expensive if you find out you don't have the work for it.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

I have said it before and I still believe that lining clones the host pipe with all it's imperfections where bursting is a new pipe, every job is different and dictates what needs to be used. But I have a lot of control over the bursting process and prefer bursting. Off topic a little but I am going to a class to check out SIPP pipe lining. It is polyurea sprayed in the pipes and I already have the sprayer. On large pipes it is done by hand but small pipe a robot is pulled through the line. Any thickness can be achieved and there is no stretch issue. Bad points are the expense of the equipment and the cleaning process needed to prep the host pipe.


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## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

That's sounds like the wave of the future. They had that system at the pumper show and your right it was expensive. Keep us posted on what you think.


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