# Too sketchy?



## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

I know it's far from safe lol, but if it makes you feel better I put a small piece of pipe in the railing to keep it from slipping off the step. I did however carry a drum machine up it, that easily weighs more than I do, by myself. But hey, I'm 19, so I should be able to lug that up there alone though,right? Low income apartment buildings are my favorite. I would have normally pulled a toilet before doing that, but the bathroom had roaches crawling all over it and the toilet had a bunch of hairline cracks. Storms clouds rolling in as I was working hahaha. Think it's about time to ask boss man for a bigger ladder.


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## ROTOR KING (Oct 7, 2008)

The company i work for policy on a job like that 2 men,and if i have to remove the toilet,and theres roaches everywhere ,i refuse the job,my personal policy lol


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Looks like a Workman's Comp. claim in the making to me. :blink:


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

At least the fall is shorter.


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Why cut the cent add a cleanout than snake?


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Why not cut into the vent ***


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

In my younger days, I did some stuff like that. While the right size ladder is better, if tied off securely, I could see doing that with a sectional. No way in hell with a drum snake. I fear the effects of gravity. Roaches, not so much.


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## gplumb (Nov 21, 2008)

it's all worth doing till the very moment you get hurt. I think about it sometimes, " 30 years till retirement". I rather charge a little more, instead of getting my self hurt.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

I stopped doing that 15 yrs or so ago. Why risk your life, or risk permanent paralysis etc. Your not trying to save the world, a town a girl. Again, what if you slipped, the ladder slipped, etc. Would that property owner risk his life to save you 100 bucks. Screw that. I've fallen off roofs 3 times, I should be in a wheel chair. Think of your family, your soon to be family.. Don't do that again. :no:


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## Leach713 (Nov 1, 2013)

Yup should of seen your other options , but some time you have to do what you got to do


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

If I was the " Boss Man " I would fire your azz, to save you from yourself.


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> If I was the " Boss Man " I would fire your azz, to save you from yourself.


What he said^^^^^


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I did plenty of dumb stuff like that at 19 in the trade. Now, I have bulging disks on my back they I've spent tons of time in and out of a dr office. Torn cartilage in my knee. And who knows what else. Oh, and I'm 29. That stuff catches up with you faster than you think.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Did you clear the stoppage?


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

Here's how it's done... I held the ladder for my guy,,, I went up 1/2 way and said nah, you do it. After 14ish feet I start to freak. Have fallen to many times.


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## Gene S. (Sep 24, 2013)

LOL I'm not sure that's an OSHA approved method of securing that ladder! But who am I to judge!


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

I've been trapped on a second story roof for over an hour because wind blew my ladder over while I was up there. Only person on the job, it really sucked, I do remember sticking a fully extended ladder on the bumper of my truck to get on a roof a few times... I'm not fond of heights or roaches, if have been doubly screwed, having a family and children make you see things differently.


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## HSI (Jun 3, 2011)

Gotta have a minimum of three feet above the roof line. 

Keep in mind not taking care of yourself will effect you and your family more than anyone else. You get hurt your career could be gone. The company will replace you with another and forget you quickly. Take a few moments and be safe. Ask yourself this serious question; why do you see the older plumbers walking around bent and hurting? They were young at one time too.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

504Plumber said:


> I've been trapped on a second story roof for over an hour because wind blew my ladder over while I was up there. Only person on the job, it really sucked, I do remember sticking a fully extended ladder on the bumper of my truck to get on a roof a few times... I'm not fond of heights or roaches, if have been doubly screwed, having a family and children make you see things differently.


Concerning the ladder on the truck. Saw a guy fall off a ladder who did that when his suspension bounced. Ever see a person's forearm bone come through their elbow? Yeah.....was like that.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

theplungerman said:


> Here's how it's done... I held the ladder for my guy,,, I went up 1/2 way and said nah, you do it. After 14ish feet I start to freak. Have fallen to many times.


Not to start trouble but what the hell? I would never ask one of my employees to do something I myself wouldn't do, or that I felt was unsafe. Why would you let someone else jump on the grenade? If I'm about to do something, then I get into it and realize it's unsafe, I'm sure the hell not going to let anyone else do it. What if that guy fell and died? Could you look his wife or his kid in the eye after that? 

It's everyone's duty to make sure that we are all safe on the job. Whether the person is you, your boss or employee it's up to you.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> Not to start trouble but what the hell? I would never ask one of my employees to do something I myself wouldn't do, or that I felt was unsafe. Why would you let someone else jump on the grenade? If I'm about to do something, then I get into it and realize it's unsafe, I'm sure the hell not going to let anyone else do it. What if that guy fell and died? Could you look his wife or his kid in the eye after that?
> 
> It's everyone's duty to make sure that we are all safe on the job. Whether the person is you, your boss or employee it's up to you.


To me this is the singly most important thing of all when being a business owner. Taking care of your employees and keeping them safe. I did my fair share of unsafe stuff, and some situations I could have easily died if things went wrong. I look back now that I'm an owner and think why did my boss have me doing that, money isn't a good excuse to knowingly send people who rely on you into unsafe situations.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

The company I worked for before I went independent asked me to change a pump in a lift station( 10' manhole) The owner's son was my apprentice and this scope of work we never did. I said I would need some proper sensors/equipment for the confined entry.... Basically we got into a yelling match. He said leave the lid off and blow some some air in. Finally I said ok but I'm sending down your son to do the work and I will instruct from on top.

He said forget it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

redbeardplumber said:


> The company I worked for before I went independent asked me to change a pump in a lift station( 10' manhole) The owner's son was my apprentice and this scope of work we never did. I said I would need some proper sensors/equipment for the confined entry.... Basically we got into a yelling match. He said leave the lid off and blow some some air in. Finally I said ok but I'm sending down your son to do the work and I will instruct from on top. He said forget it.


People like that are the most spineless arseholes in existence. I would have a hard time not laying him out after he said forget it when it was his son on the line.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> Not to start trouble but what the hell? I would never ask one of my employees to do something I myself wouldn't do, or that I felt was unsafe. Why would you let someone else jump on the grenade? If I'm about to do something, then I get into it and realize it's unsafe, I'm sure the hell not going to let anyone else do it. What if that guy fell and died? Could you look his wife or his kid in the eye after that?
> 
> It's everyone's duty to make sure that we are all safe on the job. Whether the person is you, your boss or employee it's up to you.


Not to start trouble,,, but oh what the heck here I go. :laughing:
He's not an employee he's more a friend. :laughing:
I've fallen to many times, I have a fear of heights after about, (like I said) 14ish feet, he doesn't. 
I held the ladder and watched him very closely, making sure he was properly stepping on each rung. I also was ready to break his fall should he slip.
Though you make somewhat of a valid point, I don't belive it's fair to play the don't ask if I don't card in this particular instant. I make it perfectly clear that we never go on a 2nd story building to clear a drain, even though he volunteers. 
In essence I would never ask him to do something I used to be able to do, and even then might not ask him. 
When their major pooh all over a clean out I'm in it before him. Under house work?? I'm doing it as he hands me stuff through a vent. 
I have many times said no to him over the years when he suggests some heroic like maneuvers to fix something. I haven't had any major injuries nor has he with me after 15 plus years. 
That was a procedure that needs to be done, is done that way, and was done the right way. 
Now really, I think if you thought about all angles, took into account my problem with heights, you would have let it slide. And certainly would I'm sure if you knew how I treat him and respect his well being before my pay day. And that's a fact jack. :thumbup:


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

RW Plumbing said:


> People like that are the most spineless arseholes in existence. I would have a hard time not laying him out after he said forget it when it was his son on the line.


Yes it was near the beginning of the end of our relationship.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

love2surf927 said:


> To me this is the singly most important thing of all when being a business owner. Taking care of your employees and keeping them safe. I did my fair share of unsafe stuff, and some situations I could have easily died if things went wrong. I look back now that I'm an owner and think why did my boss have me doing that, money isn't a good excuse to knowingly send people who rely on you into unsafe situations.


This is a good point, I agree and subscribe to your way of thinking. 
We have a dangerous job. We do dangerous things from time to time. There are procedures we should follow to assure our safety. 
I HAVE A HANDICAPP. IT'S A FEAR OF HEIGHTS. :furious: MY GUY DOSN'T HAVE THAT HANDICAPP. 
In the course of running a sometimes dangerous business we need to have those who work for us perform a dangerous task. And some times going 15 feet up a ladder is a necessary task. Something I used to be able to do. Now I actually start to panic. It's again a handicap. Again he doesn't suffer from it. We are a team and he helps me out in this area. 
So in this case I think you should get off your soap box as it pertains to me and what I had him do today. It's not like I asked him to go down a 10 ft manhole blind, or walk ahead of me across a field full of land mines. I had him go up a very sturdy expensive ladder that I held, with both hands and foot and perform a task on it that it was designed to be used for. Now back off. :laughing:


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

theplungerman said:


> This is a good point, I agree and subscribe to your way of thinking.
> We have a dangerous job. We do dangerous things from time to time. There are procedures we should follow to assure our safety.
> I HAVE A HANDICAPP. IT'S A FEAR OF HEIGHTS. :furious: MY GUY DOSN'T HAVE THAT HANDICAPP.
> In the course of running a sometimes dangerous business we need to have those who work for us perform a dangerous task. And some times going 15 feet up a ladder is a necessary task. Something I used to be able to do. Now I actually start to panic. It's again a handicap. Again he doesn't suffer from it. We are a team and he helps me out in this area.
> So in this case I think you should get off your soap box as it pertains to me and what I had him do today. It's not like I asked him to go down a 10 ft manhole blind, or walk ahead of me across a field full of land mines. I had him go up a very sturdy expensive ladder that I held, with both hands and foot and perform a task on it that it was designed to be used for. Now back off. :laughing:


I was just stating my opinion it wasn't even directed at you. You took it personally though apparently which has me wondering... Lol


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

love2surf927 said:


> I was just stating my opinion it wasn't even directed at you. You took it personally though apparently which has me wondering... Lol


Oh come on man,,, you piggy back on a direct digger to me, and then say, why you getting your Hanes all up in a bunch? Really? :laughing:


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

theplungerman said:


> Not to start trouble,,, but oh what the heck here I go. :laughing: He's not an employee he's more a friend. :laughing: I've fallen to many times, I have a fear of heights after about, (like I said) 14ish feet, he doesn't. I held the ladder and watched him very closely, making sure he was properly stepping on each rung. I also was ready to break his fall should he slip. Though you make somewhat of a valid point, I don't belive it's fair to play the don't ask if I don't card in this particular instant. I make it perfectly clear that we never go on a 2nd story building to clear a drain, even though he volunteers. In essence I would never ask him to do something I used to be able to do, and even then might not ask him. When their major pooh all over a clean out I'm in it before him. Under house work?? I'm doing it as he hands me stuff through a vent. I have many times said no to him over the years when he suggests some heroic like maneuvers to fix something. I haven't had any major injuries nor has he with me after 15 plus years. That was a procedure that needs to be done, is done that way, and was done the right way. Now really, I think if you thought about all angles, took into account my problem with heights, you would have let it slide. And certainly would I'm sure if you knew how I treat him and respect his well being before my pay day. And that's a fact jack. :thumbup:


My issue isn't with climbing a high ladder. It's with having the ladder on a staircase. That isn't safe and no, I wouldn't be doing that or having one if my guys doing it. The customers only option would be snapping in a clean out somewhere.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> My issue isn't with climbing a high ladder. It's with having the ladder on a staircase. That isn't safe and no, I wouldn't be doing that or having one if my guys doing it. The customers only option would be snapping in a clean out somewhere.


I was extending the vent for a proper water heater install. It used to terminate at the window. Roof was way to steep and this was our only option. 
2 experienced ladder climbers can use this option once in a while when it's the only option, imo. 
I believe to be a responsible and useful plumber we need to be careful and refrain from pulling the,, that's not safe, we need to charge a bunch more. This is what I believe and respect anothers way. Just don't get all high and mighty and dig on me when you don't know how I really roll. 
What would you suggest I did differently. 
And please excuse my bluntness. :thumbup:


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

What I don't get is why guys come on here and ask opinions and then get offended when guys tell them how they feel. The title of your thread is "too sketchy" and yes some guys here think its too sketchy. If you only want answers that validate your opinions this isn't the place. Take it for what it's worth, don't ask questions if you don't want to hear anybody else's opinion unless it validates your own.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

love2surf927 said:


> What I don't get is why guys come on here and ask opinions and then get offended when guys tell them how they feel. The title of your thread is "too sketchy" and yes some guys here think its too sketchy. If you only want answers that validate your opinions this isn't the place. Take it for what it's worth, don't ask questions if you don't eat to hear anybody else's opinion unless it validates your own.


R u talkin 2 me? I said r u talkin 2 me? 
I didn't ask for opinions, (though I have in the past) I specifically said, here's how it's done. :laughing:
Then some dude gave the,,, , why u asking your bud to jump on a grenade scenario. 
Argue like a man and stop playing the wishy washy sophomoric go to replies. 
But maybe your to busy thanking other posters to think clearly. :laughing:
Hmmm, that might be a tad harsh. So I'm putting on a big smile now, and I mean it. 
Internet forums aren't for the feable. 
What's really funny is reading young kids going at it. Well funny in a way but sad also. But I digress.


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

You say you didn't ask for opinions? Check the thread title again. Isn't that a question mark??


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

I just read your first post and I see your 19. It makes a little more sense now.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

This isn't my thread. Know your audience. You stupid,,, just kidding. :thumbup:


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

theplungerman said:


> This isn't my thread. Know your audience. You stupid,,, just kidding. :thumbup:


Oops. Apologies


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

To the OP if you want to make it to 20 read this: 

Do not place a ladder on boxes, barrels or other unstable bases to obtain additional height.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/portable_ladder_qc.html 


There is a reason why there are safety meetings before starting new projects.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

I humbly accept,, thanks and no worries.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

MTDUNN said:


> To the OP if you want to make it to 20 read this:
> 
> Do not place a ladder on boxes, barrels or other unstable bases to obtain additional height.
> 
> ...


I read it and it didn't mention stairs. A stable stair is cool, if you have a scardy cat holding it. He muscled up a heavy drum with no help. So he crossed the line from studly to stupid. IMHO. Which I know matters greatly around here.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

theplungerman said:


> Not to start trouble,,, but oh what the heck here I go. :laughing:
> *He's not an employee he's more a friend. *:laughing:
> I've fallen to many times, I have a fear of heights after about, (like I said) 14ish feet, he doesn't.
> I held the ladder and watched him very closely, making sure he was properly stepping on each rung. I also was ready to break his fall should he slip.
> ...


If your " Friend " gets paid he is an employee. Period end on discussion !

If you think the " procedure " was "done the right way" I call Bullchit !!
Try running that " Procedure " by OSHA and see what they think.

In my opinion YOU SIR ARE NOT FIT TO BE AN EMPLOYER OR EMPLOYEE !


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> If your " Friend " gets paid he is an employee. Period end on discussion !
> 
> If you think the " procedure " was "done the right way" I call Bullchit !!
> Try running that " Procedure " by OSHA and see what they think.
> ...


The friend vs employee was a joke. That's why I put a laughing face afterwards. 
Please share on how you think it should have been done. 
Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. 
Some males (and this is just my humble opinion) pull that's not safe card to much, and belong behind a desk and not doing real man stuff. 
There safe and responsible then there's,,, You know what new hire, you didn't pass the 90 day probation period, your outta here. You probably still have the guard on your grinder.


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

If I remember correctly this was about 5:00, with a nasty set of storm clouds rolling in, and I still had to drive towards the rain and do another call. The apartment complex is the kind I would turn down just about any job but snaking, if I could turn down a call. 
I should have taken a picture of the pipe that went through the lower ladder step, and wedged perfectly in the stair railing. It was pretty solid. 
I just let the drum machine rest on the side of the ladder, and then pull it up behind me. Pretty easy really. There wasn't really any moment where I felt unsafe so It's cool I guess.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

theplungerman said:


> I was extending the vent for a proper water heater install. It used to terminate at the window. Roof was way to steep and this was our only option. 2 experienced ladder climbers can use this option once in a while when it's the only option, imo. I believe to be a responsible and useful plumber we need to be careful and refrain from pulling the,, that's not safe, we need to charge a bunch more. This is what I believe and respect anothers way. Just don't get all high and mighty and dig on me when you don't know how I really roll.  What would you suggest I did differently. And please excuse my bluntness. :thumbup:


Well, seeing as I wasn't there, I can't give you an absolute answer as to how to do it safely. And you're damn right if it isn't safe I will pull the high and mighty card. I'm not getting killed for someone's water heater vent pipe, or send someone else to do it. It could come Down that the only safe option is getting a boom lift, there will be a boom lift there or I won't be. If everyone thought the way I do, guys wouldn't be getting killed taking shortcuts. But rest assured there's always someone out there willing to cut corners for a job. 

You just said to be responsible you can't pull the it's not safe card. What the hell is the not safe card? Either it's safe, or not. It isn't a ploy. I do know how you really roll,it's blatantly obvious by your don't pull the safety card comment. The fact that you believe the safety of your employees is a card to pull to extort money is all I need to know about how you do things. Why do you think large commercial companies spend tens of thousands of dollars on safety training? Because shortcuts kill people. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

theplungerman said:


> The friend vs employee was a joke. That's why I put a laughing face afterwards. Please share on how you think it should have been done. Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Some males (and this is just my humble opinion) pull that's not safe card to much, and belong behind a desk and not doing real man stuff. There safe and responsible then there's,,, You know what new hire, you didn't pass the 90 day probation period, your outta here. You probably still have the guard on your grinder.


It's unbelievable your lousy attitude towards safety procedures. Have you ever seen anyone seriously injured or killed on a job because of attitudes like yours? I have, several times. And yes, I've met someone who went blind because a grinding wheel exploded and took his eyes out. What do you think he would give to be able to see again? I bet he thinks the guard is a pretty important part of the grinder. You're a real class act. I hope I'm not on your job when your terrible attitude towards safety catches up with you. Telling someone I told you so while their being loaded up into an ambulance isn't any fun.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Nathan901 said:


> If I remember correctly this was about 5:00, with a nasty set of storm clouds rolling in, and I still had to drive towards the rain and do another call. The apartment complex is the kind I would turn down just about any job but snaking, if I could turn down a call. I should have taken a picture of the pipe that went through the lower ladder step, and wedged perfectly in the stair railing. It was pretty solid. I just let the drum machine rest on the side of the ladder, and then pull it up behind me. Pretty easy really. There wasn't really any moment where I felt unsafe so It's cool I guess.


All circumstantial excuses. If there's a safer way, that's what you do. I'm sure you could have done it a better way. 5pm doesn't matter.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

RW Plumbing said:


> It's unbelievable your lousy attitude towards safety procedures. Have you ever seen anyone seriously injured or killed on a job because of attitudes like yours? I have, several times. And yes, I've met someone who went blind because a grinding wheel exploded and took his eyes out. What do you think he would give to be able to see again? I bet he thinks the guard is a pretty important part of the grinder. You're a real class act. I hope I'm not on your job when your terrible attitude towards safety catches up with you. Telling someone I told you so while their being loaded up into an ambulance isn't any fun.


I wear safety glasses, ( I really do) does that count? 
Even if all safety measures are in place doesn't mean it's still safe. 
Boom, for that job, oh come on Alice, really? 
My guy went up about 10 ft, well that's where his feet were. 
You can be a safe driver and still die. 
I've had a few bumps here and there some stitches also. It's part of the gig. 
The reason (or one of I should say) these big Corp spend big dollars on safety is many in the work force are not fit to perform some jobs that can be a risky endeavor. 
But with that being said I'll use your rant against me as a positive gesture and try not to do anything stupid. But if that water heater vent needs attention, I'm going to do it the same way again. 
And thanks again, I accept your blast and will try to use it as a positive. Maybe you just saved my life and maybe someone around me. Smile


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

theplungerman said:


> I wear safety glasses, ( I really do) does that count?
> Even if all safety measures are in place doesn't mean it's still safe.
> Boom, for that job, oh come on Alice, really?
> My guy went up about 10 ft, well that's where his feet were.
> ...


......


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> ......


That's funny. Thanks for the giggle. :yes:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

redbeardplumber said:


> The company I worked for before I went independent asked me to change a pump in a lift station( 10' manhole) The owner's son was my apprentice and this scope of work we never did. I said I would need some proper sensors/equipment for the confined entry.... Basically we got into a yelling match. He said leave the lid off and blow some some air in. Finally I said ok but I'm sending down your son to do the work and I will instruct from on top.
> 
> He said forget it.












I see a future for him in politics...


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

My guy wanted to go down and do a quick easy repair on a pumped out grease trap today. I said no. It would have been a quick easy buck. Just Glue in a piece of pipe.


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