# Another boiler room



## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Got a new camera (Canon T1i) and just wrapped up the fire job, so here's a few pics of the mechanical room for your entertainment.

I did not do gas or venting. I did plumbing, heating and boiler/tank electrical.

This site shows the pics pinched down to tiny size, so if you want to see the full 600x900 or 900x600 resolution you'll have to click each pic twice (and possibly once more to force your browser to show it full size). Hit "Back" to return to the post.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Drain off the backflow device?

I like uni-strut for wall mounted piping support.

Zip-ties.... :no:

I don't love it.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Drain off the backflow device?


I never bother. They rarely discharge on boilers.



> I like uni-strut for wall mounted piping support.


I like it too, but plywood is free, and I can get just about any thickness I need. With Unistrut I'm locked to that distance from the wall.



> Zip-ties.... :no: I don't love it.


Ya, I wasn't crazy about that either, but it's just a light little drain line. I think it'll be fine. I put lots on so if a couple fail it'll still hang in there. I've seen some pretty old cable ties still holding strong. If I'm back for service years from now and they're failing, I'll replace them with something better (copper strap & stove bolts?).


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

what with the gate valves on the boiler feed and the thing right above it , run out of ball valves?


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

bartnc37 said:


> what with the gate valves on the boiler feed and the thing right above it , run out of ball valves?


There's no gate valves in that room. I can't remember when I last installed a gate valve (it's been decades). The boiler feed and the hose bibb valves are straight stops (compression stops) - cheap and perfect for valves that don't get used too much.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Nice pipe work! The EQ straps? when you float a tank like that you gotta use backing on both adjacent walls top and bottom. Hard to tell from the pics but if you get a shaker it's just going to tip / walk backwards. If you are required to put in EQ straps, how is it allowed to be hard piped? I do like your lines, neat - plumb / level! And the zip ties? LOL, they will dry out in a few years. There are many ways to do that a little better. Than again sitting in the cheaps seats is easy. I've done plenty of jobs that size and it's always the stupid stuff that winds up FUBAR!!


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Tankless said:


> The EQ straps? when you float a tank like that you gotta use backing on both adjacent walls top and bottom. Hard to tell from the pics but if you get a shaker it's just going to tip / walk backwards.


Ya know what I think? I think if they get a quake bad enough to tip a flat-bottom tank like that, they're gonna have LOTS bigger things to worry about than whether their tank tilted a little and bounced off the walls or the straps and then settled back down on the floor. There's no burner, so it won't start a fire.

But you're right, that should have been blocked. I missed it - too many other things crowding my brain. I'm frantically busy - that's my excuse, and I'm stickin to it.  The inspector may catch it and complain, but out in that area they're very lax, so probably not.



> If you are required to put in EQ straps, how is it allowed to be hard piped?


We are required to, and I do as good or better than other plumbers' work I see. We are not required to pipe it with flex, which is kinda dumb really. But again, a quake bad enough to rip the pipes off and they'll have much worse things to worry about than a leak.



> And the zip ties? LOL, they will dry out in a few years. There are many ways to do that a little better.


Heh  I shoulda known I'd take a lot of razzing for that here.  It's not a good way to do things, but for some reason it seemed like a good idea at the time.  Ah well... If I have a callback for anything I'll change em out and take a pic for you guys. :thumbup:


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Nice clean work as usual.


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## amh112181 (Sep 3, 2009)

Very Nice Work!

Just wondering why you used a natural draft boiler? :blink: There are many other condensing boilers out there that are a lot more efficent. Burnham makes one.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I think it looks great, yeah, some here would have done other things different, but geeze, you guy's should see the work I see down here in my area, new homes, I get to look at a lot of them because the plumbing systems, hot water systems are breaking down in houses only a couple years old. I was in one house the other night, 6 bathrooms, multi million $ home, my house is built better!

Looks a hell of a lot better then work here. good job!


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

amh112181 said:


> Just wondering why you used a natural draft boiler? :blink: There are many other condensing boilers out there that are a lot more efficent. Burnham makes one.


Budget. These people were on a fairly tight one. The builder tells me what he wants - I suggest bumping the boiler up - he says no. Ok, no problem.


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## amh112181 (Sep 3, 2009)

futz said:


> Budget. These people were on a fairly tight one. The builder tells me what he wants - I suggest bumping the boiler up - he says no. Ok, no problem.


I hear ya a lot of builders up here still have us put in oil boilers with a domstic coil.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Unistrut instead of wood your wiring looks horrible mount a 16x16 box and leave the wires in there i see no clevis hangars there sort of my trade mark haha


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Mike Jessome said:


> Unistrut instead of wood your wiring looks horrible mount a 16x16 box and leave the wires in there i see no clevis hangars there sort of my trade mark haha


 
He's the forum inspector. His work is the best, but yet he has nothing to show us of his.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

A copper thief’s wet dream :laughing:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Boiler looks a little tight to the wall on the right hand side. What are the rated clearance for that make. Most of the natural draft boilers we install has 6" clearance from the side to combustibles.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Boiler looks a little tight to the wall on the right hand side. What are the rated clearance for that make. Most of the natural draft boilers we install has 6" clearance from the side to combustibles.


They're rated for 1" on right side. I have to stay farther away than that to keep the draft hood 6" from wall anyway.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Mike Jessome said:


> Unistrut instead of wood


I prefer wood. 



> your wiring looks horrible mount a 16x16 box and leave the wires in there


Looks a hell of a lot better than 99% of the boilers I see done by others.



> i see no clevis hangars there sort of my trade mark haha


There's some on the tank lines, holding up that heavy pump, and from that one down to the bottom one in case some idiot stands on the bottom pipe.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Mike Jessome said:


> Unistrut instead of wood your wiring looks horrible mount a 16x16 box and leave the wires in there i see no clevis hangars there sort of my trade mark haha


 Where are you puttin' clevis hangers in there???


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

futz said:


> I prefer wood.


 
 I think you should rephrase that


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice job, futz!
"Boiler room"! _jeez!_ I like how "boiler rooms" these days are closets or, "_that space under the stairs that we have no other use for._" 

I'm a unistrut fan, too, but there's little place for it in this app. Too much to insulate against and, like you said, your spacing is fixed. The wood works well here. Nice, clean piping.

GJ! :thumbup:

That water heater will be a b*tch to change out, tho! :whistling2:


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Miguel said:


> "Boiler room"! _jeez!_ I like how "boiler rooms" these days are closets or, "_that space under the stairs that we have no other use for._"


Tell me about it. There's nothing I love more than spending four or five days crouching bent over a boiler and banging my head in one of those tiny things. :laughing: And service will be a pig for them later too.



> That water heater will be a b*tch to change out, tho! :whistling2:


Not so terrible. A bit more work than a gas tank, but not bad. SS coil tanks usually live a long time though.


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## 907plumber (Mar 13, 2010)

what is that aquastat next to the thermometer? Is that a secondary High limit cutoff? Also I dont see a way to purge each zone out. Or Isolating an individual zone for a service call. Or a way to isolate your pumps for service.

Its a little pricier to do but I like to out Ball valves before each zone valve as well as a ball valve on each return with a boiler drain before that. This allows me to isolate one zone with out shutting the boiler down in case I need to replace a zone valve body. Also this makes purging faster and more positive.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

907plumber said:


> what is that aquastat next to the thermometer? Is that a secondary High limit cutoff?


That's the loop limit. Protects the radiant loops from water hotter than 140F if the mixer or other control(s) screws up. Disables the boiler burner, leaving everything else running. The last line of defense against wrecked floors if everything else screws up.



> Also I dont see a way to purge each zone out. Or Isolating an individual zone for a service call.


Each loop has its own individual valve on the return. Use those and the zone valves to shut off zones. Honeywell zone valves are made so you can change heads without draining.











> Or a way to isolate your pumps for service.
> 
> Its a little pricier to do but I like to out Ball valves before each zone valve as well as a ball valve on each return with a boiler drain before that. This allows me to isolate one zone with out shutting the boiler down in case I need to replace a zone valve body.


I don't feel that extra hardware is necessary. All the extra ball valves eat up too much space. Changing zone valve bodies is so rare that I don't even consider it. Honeywell bodys last a LONG time.

Back behind the expansion tank there are a pair of close-spaced tees with ball valves coming off the boiler loop that can isolate off the whole radiant system (or just the DHW loop), so it can be de-pressurized without affecting the boiler or DHW loops. To change a pump I close those, shut off the zone valves and close all the loop return valves. Change the pump and there's only a little new air in there. A quicky repurge and it's back in business. Often it doesn't even need that - it's so little air that the AAVs do their job and get it out later.











> Also this makes purging faster and more positive.


Purging couldn't get much faster or more positive than my systems. I do not have air or purging problems at all. They're quick and easy to purge out.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

real nice piping job but you have got to stop selling gas boilers with atmospheric burners. What does that thing run, maybe 75% efficiency? Be honest now because that AFUE rating don't mean crap


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

nhmaster3015 said:


> real nice piping job but you have got to stop selling gas boilers with atmospheric burners. What does that thing run, maybe 75% efficiency? Be honest now because that AFUE rating don't mean crap


True. I sell what the builders want. When they want to be (relatively) cheap then they get a Burnham Series 2. With framing/insulation rules as tight as they are now, they're still fairly inexpensive to run.

Right now I have two or three custom jobs on the go that are going to get Viessmann Vitodens 100's. What fun! I haven't seen one of the new ones yet - they've fixed some problems they were having with the older models. 

I'm going to vent the first one thru the roof with S636. First time for me with that method for Vito100. I used to always use their concentric venting.

Had one recently quit working at 2 years old with a plugged condensate trap - that's annoying. Had to replace the refractories in the burner (soaking wet) and install a new-model trap in it. The new ones have better traps that shouldn't plug up so easy.


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Those 3/4 mains you ran to feed that header in that wall look good for pex but we always do them in copper cost a little bit more but it looks better


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