# Gas swimming pool heaters with titanium heat exchangers?



## Protech

Can anyone recommend a high quality natural gas pool heater with a titanium heat exchanger (or at the very least stainless steel)? I have a high end client that is sick of replacing heaters due to corroded copper heat exchangers. She is unwilling to keep the Ph up. We may go the solar route or heat pump. In those cases I’m covered. I don’t know of any gas heaters with corrosion resistant heat exchangers though.


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## ILPlumber

http://www.lochinvar.com/products/Default.aspx?type=ProductLine&lineID=150#

Cupro Nickel heat exchanger. 

Or how about a standard boiler with a SS shell tube heat exchanger?


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## RealLivePlumber

You gotta watch the Delta T if you use a boiler. Have to blend the return water with the out to keep the temp up. 

Can you even get a boiler in Fla?:laughing:


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## Protech

Please forgive the stupid Floridian but, why is that? What happens if she's fed cold water?




RealLivePlumber said:


> *You gotta watch the Delta T if you use a boiler. Have to blend the return water with the out to keep the temp up.*
> 
> Can you even get a boiler in Fla?:laughing:


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## RealLivePlumber

The heat exchanger will not get hot enough to cook off any moisture on the exterior, causing corrosion and reduced lifespan. It could also "sting" the boiler, (cold water being dumped into a hot heat exchanger), and cause it to crack, or worse.


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## Redwood

What, you're not looking for a heat pump pool heater with a good heat exchanger?


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## Protech

I have good heat pumps. This lady is talking about a high btu gas unit. She has a 1.5" galvi gas line pre plumbing to the heater location from a previous gas heater. She is considering going with gas (even though it costs more to heat with it) because it heats faster. The idea is that she goes out first thing in the AM and flips on the heater and by noonish the pool is warm enough to swim in. Put the thing on a timer to automatically shut off. Even though the gas is more expensive, it's only used when she wants to swim, so in theory it could work out to be less.

She had a heat pump that just took a dump (heat exchanger). She hated it because she would have to turn the thing on a day or so before she wanted to go swimming. When done swimming thing would end up getting left on for like a month or two straight and then she gets hit with a whopper power bill.

If the pool could be heated quickly with gas and automatically shut down it would be both convenient and efficient. That's the plan anyway. I'm trying to push her towards a solar system though with the possibility of a heat pump as backup. Gotta have an answer no matter what she decides.



Redwood said:


> What, you're not looking for a heat pump pool heater with a good heat exchanger?


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## Tankless

MasterTemp 400 by Pentair. But there's more to it than just the heater. I just finished a totally custom ($$$) system that I designed with the help of a real expert. I have a variable speed pump that I figured out the best...most efficient RPM to run at to maximize the heat transfer. There is also a solar side of things and in the winter I have it default to that, but if the sun is not out and they want to use it, I programmed the wireless remote for a one button activation. Fully automated and expensive but it works perfectly. I don't know anything about a titainum exchanger.....If the lady doesn't want to pay a pool guy to keep the water correct....well...ya can't fix stupid. Of all the nat gas heaters out there, the MasterTemp is the one I'd put in my house. Depending on hopw big the pool is, you might not need a 400kbtu unit......there is a way to size them. My magic number was 2200 rpm. I can heat 20k gallons ten degrees in 5hrs. The 2k gallon spa heats 30 degrees in 45 minutes. Can't ask for much better than that.


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## PLUMBER_BILL

*Pool Heating*

Did anybody ever use radiant in reverse to heat a pool. Seems like pex in the concrete decking surrounding a pool, absorbing all the heat from the sun. Is a ripe candiate for some of the pool water to be diverted into the slab to gain the heat collected.

Parr thinking again ...


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## Protech

Sounds like a low performance, high cost solar heater to me...............



PLUMBER_BILL said:


> Did anybody ever use radiant in reverse to heat a pool. Seems like pex in the concrete decking surrounding a pool, absorbing all the heat from the sun. Is a ripe candiate for some of the pool water to be diverted into the slab to gain the heat collected.
> 
> Parr thinking again ...


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## PlungerJockey

We install Raypak, they seem to hold up well here.


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## RealLivePlumber

Sell her one of these. Heat 'em up quick:thumbsup:


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## RCK706

*pool heaters*

there are no pool heaters (gas fired) with titanium exchangers. the best you can do is copro/nickel (Raypack) or you can do heat pumps they have titanium or tringle exchangers for the resistance. inform the customer that they are also destroing the finish of the pool with a low ph also have them check the total alkalinity, this is the ph buffer and will maintain ph easier:jester:


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## SlickRick

RCK706 said:


> there are no pool heaters (gas fired) with titanium exchangers. the best you can do is copro/nickel (Raypack) or you can do heat pumps they have titanium or tringle exchangers for the resistance. inform the customer that they are also destroing the finish of the pool with a low ph also have them check the total alkalinity, this is the ph buffer and will maintain ph easier:jester:


What line of work are you in?


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## Scott K

A few questions - is this a salt water pool or chlorine?

Is the chlorine injection or distribution UPSTREAM of the boiler/heat source or downstream? It is CRITICAL that it is downstream of the heat source, especially sources that are dependant on exposure affecting their longetivity. 

Also, when the pool is routinely shocked (assuming it is shocked on a routine basis perhaps?) is the bypass valve opened and the heat source isolated to protect it from the large dose of chemicals?


I suggest you don't waste your time with a cupro nickel anything. If this customer is serious about a long lasting system put a modulating condensing boiler (closed, hot water system) with a titanium plate and frame heat exchanger with the pool water piped to it on the other side of the exchanger obviously. The plate and frame titanium exchanger will keep costs down (relatively speaking - a plate & frame titanium is still about 4-7x the cost of a stainless shell & tube heat exchanger, BUT it is less than half the price, typically, if you decided to go with a FULLY welded, all metal titanium shell & tube which some heat exchanger companies do make) and be comapareable in price to a shell & tube titanium/composite (plastic) hybrid exchanger that some companies supply, but it will have metal tappings (or stainless tappings on the hydronic side and plastic MIP connections to go to the PVC on the pool side) instead of the plastic female shell tappings the titanium/composite shell & tubes do which fail often as they are VERY finicky to install/work with. Titanium as a material will last indefinately (or a VERY long time) in chlorine applications and is the most robust material commonly available to deal with salt water applications. If it's just a chlorine pool a 316 L stainless steel shell & tube heat exchanger should be fine and offer a decent longetivity as long as the pools chemical introductions are managed properly (see above). If you have the boiler on it's own closed water system that is isolated/protected by a titanium or stainless steel heat exchanger from the pool water, it should last a long time, as long as it's serviced regularly, and a mod-con will see really good efficiency, especially if you oversize the exchanger a bit which will allow you to bring boiler temps down.


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