# Check valves on sewage ejectors



## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

Had a difference of opinion today with someone regarding check valves on sewage ejectors. I only use them if I have more than 10 feet of pipe total before I can go gravity or the inspector demands it......Opinions?


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I always put in a 2" check on a sewage ejector. 

Why would you want to force that pump to over come that much head each and every time it has to activate...and that much distance would instantly return back into the pit, rapidly.

That has to limit the volume you're working with per cycle.


Why in the **** am I still up at 5am?!!?!?!!


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I agree with Dunbar. I always use one as close as possible to the pump.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

USE the Check !!! Take that pressure off your pump !!

And I agree with Dunbar ---- WTH are you doing up at 5 a.m. ??


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Yes I always use a check valve.:thumbsup:


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

always a check, without it depending on pump out hgt. it could cause the pump to cycleoften


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## estabrook (Jan 2, 2010)

*use the check*

I have always used a check valve as close as i can


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*me too*

I like the *silent check valves....*

I also like to put a* pvc ball valve* above the check valve so I dont have to get the whole
pipe fullolf crap back on me some day if the 
unit needes service....

too many times I have had complaints about the clunking noise when they slam shut...


dunbar....are you off your meds again??.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

We have some forced mains here with sewage ejectors. You must use a check valve or your pit will fill from the citys sewage ......FOREVER if yours malfunctions or is absent.


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## bigdaddyrob (May 14, 2009)

Gotta look into the silent valves. But I am with Mark. I always put a ball valve & check. If not for me thenfor the next plumber that comes along


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

The last one I installed was a 1.5" brass swing check made by Kitz. No problems and it was for my cousin so I know damn well theres no trouble with it or my phone would be ringing.....I work for him for the materials only...no labor. He's my baby cousin..he's my Boy!


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

Always installed check valves on every sewer ejector. I use Zoeller never failed on me.


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

Always use check valve as close to pump as possible but above the pit cover.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I always use a check valve. It also provides protection against sewer backups as well. I had to many calls where people had flooded basements due to the sewerage backing up and making it way down the ejector pump pipe.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Bollinger plumber said:


> Always use check valve as close to pump as possible but above the pit cover.


*Question when installing a check valve above the pit cover. Does everybody drill the 3/16 hole on a downward slant just below the pit cover on the riser? Especially on a system whereas the tank might be empty at times like on a floor drain (rain water discharge)?*


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Yes.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I use the tri-check. It's a sweet little combination unit.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

I had 1 pump airlock years ago, so always drill hole @ use check valve


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Check and 3/16 hole here


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

2" valve, checkvalve, union. Everytime without fail.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *Question when installing a check valve above the pit cover. Does everybody drill the 3/16 hole on a downward slant just below the pit cover on the riser? Especially on a system whereas the tank might be empty at times like on a floor drain (rain water discharge)?*


I don't get why you'd do that?
I like to see the valve/union/check on the horiz (when I can) right above the sump lid so that when you break the union any spillage will dribble back into the sump. A screwdriver or long-nose pliers at the check gate along with a good shake is usually enough to empty the riser enough so you can lift that whole arrangement out and into a bucket.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Installation instructions have always called for a 3/16 bleed hole as long as I can remember?


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

This is not even an option under the IPC. The check valve is required. In residential systems the isolation valve is optional but still a very good idea. I don't know the UPC so maybe both are optional there but if you are under the IPC and you are not installing a check valve then you are doing it wrong.

With respect to the 3/16" hole in the pump discharge riser, I don't think it's a code issue (that I can remember) but I don't remember ever installing an ejector pump for which the manufacturer's install instructions didn't call for it. I also have replaced a few ejector pumps that did not have the hole drilled in the discharge riser by whoever installed it originally. I can't say whether or not having the hole shortened the life of the pump or not because I don't know. I just don't see any reason to think that I know more than the manufacturer does about the operating requirements for the equipment that they designed and built. I always drill the hole.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Code required here, a check is a must. As long as the check don't bounce.


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## dankman (Nov 19, 2009)

The only time I don't install a check valve on an ejector pump line is when I want to do a really crappy job and get called back.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Miguel said:


> I don't get why you'd do that?
> I like to see the valve/union/check on the horiz (when I can) right above the sump lid so that when you break the union any spillage will dribble back into the sump. A screwdriver or long-nose pliers at the check gate along with a good shake is usually enough to empty the riser enough so you can lift that whole arrangement out and into a bucket.


The hole is for the pump operation not for a means of draining the line. I may not have this right so someone correct me if I'm wrong but under certain circumstances, if the pump does not operate for long periods of time, it might set up a scenario where the pump cavitates. With the hole in place, air can be displaced as the water level rises in the pit, which allows the impeller to be submerged, which relieves the possibility of cavitation.

Tell me if I'm wrong.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

or simplified, to prevent airlock.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

OIC!
That makes more sense than reasons I'd been trying to come up with.
Y'know, maybe after so many years of doing something one tends not to do much more than glance at the instructions and gets complacent in how they do things. I feel more foolish not knowing this than I do for asking about it. :whistling2:
Thanks guys.

_Edit: Just checked installation instr. for some of the pumps I'd previously installed and there was no mention of drilling a hole _however_ in each of those there was mention of a bleed hole built into the volute housing of the pump (no hole required). These'd be Hydromatic SP & SPF pumps, Liberty LE & LEH_
_But the Goulds residential sewage pumps call for the hole. (Last one of these I installed was around '98)_

_So there ya go! RTFM. _


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Instead of the 3/16" hole I cut a half moon about an 1 1/4" long,facing down, with my pvc saw. :thumbsup:


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

I don't remember the instructions for a hole drilled too many years ago, but they've been around for quite a while. I always drill it, and unless the pump comes with its own standpipe, I use galvy to get out of the sump. I like to be able to pull the pump without breaking the riser.

And there is no head on the pump if you don't install a check valve. The water simply runs back down into the sump. The pump has to pump water the same vertical distance whether the pipe is already full or empty. No sense pumping it out twice. However, if upstairs fixtures plug the drain (as has already been mentioned) the sewer will back up down the standpipe into the pump. Even if the drain is just partially clogged, the water could back up into the pit.


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## spudwrench (Sep 15, 2009)

Just what I do after a lot of tests to stop the dreaded check valve slam(residential). A Zoeller must have the 3/16" hole, sez so on the shipping tape holding the float. Drill the hole through the adapter and pipe so that it is above the impeller and below the waterline. Check valve 5'-6'AFF. less water above reduces the slam. I use an overpass, or go above the sewer and drop into the pipe, as high as possible in a joist space. Works for me. No complaints yet!


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

A sewage ejector thats connected to a city forced main must always have a check! Code or no code!


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

UPC requires both check and isolation valves. As for the 3/16" hole, not all pump manufacturers require it. I believe some have a built in air bleeder.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Plumbus said:


> UPC requires both check and isolation valves. As for the 3/16" hole, not all pump manufacturers require it. I believe some have a built in air bleeder.


Which ones?


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## liquidplumber (Dec 6, 2009)

Let me be a little bit more specific about the job I did that started this thread. 

Owner wanted to add full bath in basement. Sewer (private septic) exits approx. 3 feet above basement floor. I install ejector (liberty 380) outlet goes vertical approx 5 feet then goes horizontal pitching down towards sewer. Outlet has a ball valve and union. 
I just don't see the need for a check valve and nobody wants to listen to it bang every time. What am I missing?


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

silent checks


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

liquidplumber said:


> Let me be a little bit more specific about the job I did that started this thread.
> 
> Owner wanted to add full bath in basement. Sewer (private septic) exits approx. 3 feet above basement floor. I install ejector (liberty 380) outlet goes vertical approx 5 feet then goes horizontal pitching down towards sewer. Outlet has a ball valve and union.
> I just don't see the need for a check valve and nobody wants to listen to it bang every time. What am I missing?


Turn your swing checks onto a 45 degree angle and they stop banging.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

liquidplumber said:


> Let me be a little bit more specific about the job I did that started this thread.
> 
> Owner wanted to add full bath in basement. Sewer (private septic) exits approx. 3 feet above basement floor. I install ejector (liberty 380) outlet goes vertical approx 5 feet then goes horizontal pitching down towards sewer. Outlet has a ball valve and union.
> I just don't see the need for a check valve and nobody wants to listen to it bang every time. What am I missing?


Put the check & ball valve up high on the horiz and the union on the riser closer to the sump. You'll never hear the check slam. W/O the check the washback will be negligble and won't cause short cycling anyway.

_"negligble"??? Did I just make that up? :laughing:_


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

slickrick said:


> Which ones?


 Zoeller


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Zoeller


The Zoeller pump packages I use call for a 3/16 bleed.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Which ones?


 Myers has some with a 5/32 hole in the pumps volute. :thumbsup:


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## robthaplumber (Jan 27, 2010)

Check valve?? What happens when the gravity sys. has a Mainline stoppage downstream of the pump sys. branch w/o a check? It could get messy. When the pump kicks on it'll blow sewage out of every fixture.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

How about an intro. Are you really a plumber?


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

robthaplumber said:


> Check valve?? What happens when the gravity sys. has a Mainline stoppage downstream of the pump sys. branch w/o a check? It could get messy. When the pump kicks on it'll blow sewage out of every fixture.


 I'd like to watch that at a distance.:laughing: here in a 50 yr old house the dummies who plumbed it put the K=sink on the 3" waste from the upstairs bath. Everything works fine unless the main line clogs....if that happens,sewage blows about 2' in the air out of the sink I rolled out laughing when i saw that:laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

robthaplumber said:


> Check valve?? What happens when the gravity sys. has a Mainline stoppage downstream of the pump sys. branch w/o a check? It could get messy. When the pump kicks on it'll blow sewage out of every fixture.


And how does a check valve on the pump riser prevent this?


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## robthaplumber (Jan 27, 2010)

ILPlumber said:


> And how does a check valve on the pump riser prevent this?


 It prevents any liquids from entering the pump pitt from the blockage. If the floatswitch gets in the verticle position (mercury) its going to kick that pump on. Having a check valve will prevent any liquids from entering the pitt via the discharge line.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

The general consensus seems to advise to put a check valve on those bad boys whether it's connected to a private system or otherwise. :yes:

:heh: Reminds me of a time I was working on a small commercial duplex system. Wasn't even a true duplex so I didn't get the call until BOTH pumps had failed. Whole building with "no place to go"! :laughing:
There were check valves but no ball or gate valves and the way they were plumbed I had to break both unions and swing the whole arrangement up and out of the way just to gain access to the covers. But to get enough room put the swing gates just over horizontal, which was OK for awhile but then either another pump on the system or something would cause the check gates to open and then slam shut. _clack clack clack clack _and with each _clack_ a buckets worth of really horrible water would gush and spray out of each of those broken unions!

That call was filed under "really unpleasant". No lovin' at home for Miguel that night! It was shower and get your stuff to the laundromat! :whistling2:
I think I even showered at a carwash that evening.

Remember the mantra: _valve, checkvalve, union. . . valve, checkvalve, union . . ._


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I know of an entire subdivision all plumbed the same way and its a disaster waiting to happen. Every house has a grinder seweage pump system and is connected to a forced main. No overflows and no backwater valves on the main gravity line coming into the pit. If the check valve goes bad on the outlet side of the ejector the pump will run until it over heats and then it will shut down.....then the citys main proceeds to fill up your house with sewage because the pit's lid is water tight!!!! :laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

robthaplumber said:


> It prevents any liquids from entering the pump pitt from the blockage. If the floatswitch gets in the verticle position (mercury) its going to kick that pump on. Having a check valve will prevent any liquids from entering the pitt via the discharge line.


OK, I'll buy that reasoning. The check would prevent this scenario as long as the basement plumbing isn't used.


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