# IAPMO bans water-powered sump pumps



## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Well kinda.
Not allowed in new GREEN building code. Not that I'm doing any GREEN work:blink: but maybe you are and have already heard of this.
Based on an estimated 50,000 to 100,000 h20 powered pumps, total fresh water used is estimated to be 795 million to 1.5 billion gals per year.

I don't install them anyway, but it's still interesting.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Green doesn't look so good to someone whose basement is full of water. I'm all for conservation. If they're used as emergency backup that's one thing, but if they're used as a standalone pump that's a horse of a different color.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Got a link? I'm curious how they came up with those gal. figures.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

No link, it was a mailer from Glentronics (guess I should have made a footnote:whistling2.
According to them they can use up to 600 gals per hour.
apparently it's in the new Green Plumbing & Mechanical Code Supplement


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Try this:

http://www.saveourwatertoday.org/SOWT/


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I install quite a few AY Mcdonald "Gaurdian" pumps.

They are stricly for back up. I think that the pencil pushers who came up with that brilliant statement must live in the desert. 

What's so green about a basement with 2 feet of water in it, with all the mold BS to go with it?


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Besides, is it really "wasting" water?

It is stormwater, or groundwater. Both are not "dirty" as IAMPO states. It is pumped outside, where it can leech back into the ground, anyway.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

I assume they are talking about treated water being wasted, but hey, you know what happens when we ASSume


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Considering the best they can do is waste 1 gallon of clean water for every 2 they pump out yea it's pretty wasteful...


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

IAPMO says to use a battery back up.

Ever seen or been to a plant that manufactures batteries. I have. It probably took 5 years off my life, the hour I spent there.

Or hows about the palnt that recycles the lead acid battery? Never been, but I'm quite sure it is an enviromental disaster.

Yeah, thats green.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

RealLivePlumber said:


> IAPMO says to use a battery back up.
> 
> Ever seen or been to a plant that manufactures batteries. I have. It probably took 5 years off my life, the hour I spent there.
> 
> ...


Having to keep that battery charger working 24/7 365 days a year, & replacing battery every few years, sounds green too And now some of these pumps are 24volt, which requires 2 batteries.


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## buythisone (Nov 8, 2010)

*Water Powered Pumps*

There's a fantastic article from Plumbing Systems & Design last year that talked about the hazards and concerns about these pumps. 

1, many states require RPZ. Not double check etc. RPZ. Check it. They pose serious cross connection problems. 

• Illinois Section 890.1130: Protection of Potable Water
• Indiana 675 IAC 16-1.3-64, Section 602.1:
Unlawful Connections
• Massachusetts 248 CMR 10.0: Cross-connection Control
• Minnesota 4715.1920: Potable Water Cross-connection
Control (including diligent marking of potable and
nonpotable water lines)
• New Jersey PHCC National Standard Plumbing Code 10.4-9:
Protection of Potable Water
• Wisconsin Comm. 82.41: Cross-connection Control
• Connecticut, Delaware, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire,
New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont,
Virginia, and West Virginia: Use IPC Section 608.1

2, the estimates about clean water wasted in that article are far more agressive then other estimates. 

POTABLE WATE R CONSUMPTION
Although potable-to-sump pit water efficiencies have improved
greatly, water-powered sump pumps still consume a very large
quantity of potable water. If a water-powered sump pump (average
flow of 530 gph at 10 feet of total dynamic head) operates for only
five minutes per day (30 hours per year), its annual consumption of
potable water will be 15,900 gallons per year. If the pump operates
for 10 minutes per day (60 hours per year), its annual consumption
of potable water will be 31,800 gallons per year. An average running
time of 10 minutes per day is not unusual for a water-powered sump
pump because its relatively low flow capacity causes it to run much
longer than an electric motor-driven pump when emptying a sump
pit. (These calculations were based on the pumps only requiring
1 gallon of potable water to pump 1 gallon of sump pit water. The
entire current population of water-powered sump pumps contains
units that require 2 gallons and a few that require 10 gallons of
potable water to pump 1 gallon of sump pit water.)
As was stated in the introduction, little or no information in
current literature describes the quantities of water-powered sump
pumps sold or produced annually. They are not included in the
quantities supplied to the Sump and Sewage Pump Manufacturers
Association because they do not have an electric horsepower
rating. Estimates of market size and calculations of total potable
water consumption were independently conducted by Sterling
Institute Inc. Based on an estimated population of 50,000 waterpowered
sump pumps in the United States, the total potable water
consumption is estimated to be 795 million to 1,590 million gallons
per year. (See Table 2 for a synopsis of these calculations.)


Thier estimates range from 800 million gallons a year to 9,540 million!!!


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

IL plumbing inspectors are allowing a dual check with atmospheric vent.

At the main where the line feeding the pump tees off. The line is a dead end basically.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Personally I like standby generators with auto start and auto transfer with the fringe benefits it brings...:thumbup:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*battery back up pumps rule*

We have gone out on service calls due to huge massive water bills in peoples homes before...... only to find out that their water operated pump had been runnig in the mechanical room for over a month before they ever caught it....no alarm on the system and they were total--- clueless ----idiots.....


they are very wasetful , especially if the home owner does not know how to maintian them or know what they are doing.



the aquanot ll is the only decent thing I will ever install...
.


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## DownHill (Oct 15, 2010)

What about a cat powered pump? Approved? They'll run like he!! when then water rises.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Personally I like standby generators with auto start and auto transfer with the fringe benefits it brings...:thumbup:


 That don't do ya much good, if the pump fails. Just saying


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Don The Plumber said:


> That don't do ya much good, if the pump fails. Just saying


I also like alternating duplex systems where there is a heavy reliability on a sump pump system to prevent a basement from flooding....:thumbup:


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Ok, please forgive my ignorance, but I've never heard of a water powered sump pump.

The only ones I've ever seen here in Colorado are electric. Sometimes they'll have a battery back up.

How does a water powered one work?


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## Jeff (Oct 12, 2010)

I wont even install the water back-up pump's anymore, JUNK! to many people leave for the winter, come home, and find there's running with a giant water bill.
Battery all the way! Also, I think it takes 3 gallons of water to pump 1 gallon?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Jeff said:


> I wont even install the water back-up pump's anymore, JUNK! to many people leave for the winter, come home, and find there's running with a giant water bill.
> Battery all the way! Also, I think it takes 3 gallons of water to pump 1 gallon?


No they take 1 gallon to pump 2 gallons...
At least the Zoeller and Liberty ones do...


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> We have gone out on service calls due to huge massive water bills in peoples homes before...... only to find out that their water operated pump had been runnig in the mechanical room for over a month before they ever caught it....no alarm on the system and they were total--- clueless ----idiots.....
> 
> 
> they are very wasetful , especially if the home owner does not know how to maintian them or know what they are doing.
> ...


 
Battery backups rule for about an hour. Then the battery goes dead.

We pipe a seperate discharge to a visible location, preferably a nuisance location, to alert people of the problem. And add an alarm. And instruct the ho. 

Still, there are hacks that will tie it in with a tee, to the existing electric pump discharge, that discharges underground to the municipal storm sewer.............


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