# Small leak



## The Plumber Man (Sep 27, 2015)

So a handyman friend asked me to fix a few things at his house. I walk into his house and smell gas BAD so i go searching and opened the water heater closet almost got knocked out by the fumes.😚 He didn't use a union at the water heater. He said he tightened one side the backed it out to thread it into the 90. I let this guy know how lucky he was and also what an unskilled idiot he was. Let him know that HE and handy hackers like him are THE problem with the world today.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm surprised he used pipe dope and not white Teflon tape


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## Nathan901 (Feb 11, 2012)

The guy in the Home Depot isle can only be so helpful...


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Isn't there such a thing called a left right fitting? Excuse the terminology, but when I worked in California a guy told me they don't use unions they use left right couplings and one side as backwards threads that tightens up with the nipple that's tightening the other end


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Isn't there such a thing called a left right fitting? Excuse the terminology, but when I worked in California a guy told me they don't use unions they use left right couplings and one side as backwards threads that tightens up with the nipple that's tightening the other end
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Correct, we use them where you can't install a union like in an attic. On water heaters we have to use flex lines due to earthquakes. Are left/rights legal in other states?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Isn't there such a thing called a left right fitting? Excuse the terminology, but when I worked in California a guy told me they don't use unions they use left right couplings and one side as backwards threads that tightens up with the nipple that's tightening the other end
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I keep one 3/4" black left/right nipple in my nipple tray.. if helper can't figure out why it doesn't go into fitting, that's the last time he's with me..


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

rjbphd said:


> I keep one 3/4" black left/right nipple in my nipple tray.. if helper can't figure out why it doesn't go into fitting, that's the last time he's with me..


Why don't you just wack him on the head with it and call it even?


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Debo22 said:


> Correct, we use them where you can't install a union like in an attic. On water heaters we have to use flex lines due to earthquakes. Are left/rights legal in other states?




So I never found out why you can't use a union instead? What does an attic have to do with it? Also, is it a left right fitting or nipple? And is there a proper name for it or just called a left/right 


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

rjbphd said:


> Michaelcookplum said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't there such a thing called a left right fitting? Excuse the terminology, but when I worked in California a guy told me they don't use unions they use left right couplings and one side as backwards threads that tightens up with the nipple that's tightening the other end
> ...


 
You keep a left/right fitting or just the nipple?


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Michaelcookplum said:


> So I never found out why you can't use a union instead? What does an attic have to do with it? Also, is it a left right fitting or nipple? And is there a proper name for it or just called a left/right
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Left/right nipple and coupling, can't put a union in concealed spaces, attic, wall, or under house.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

rwh said:


> You keep a left/right fitting or just the nipple?


Just a one nipple for pranks.. but there's plenty of them in all size from supplyhouse.com


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> Left/right nipple and coupling, can't put a union in concealed spaces, attic, wall, or under house.


From what I read from HH site.. can't use unions outside at gas meter in some eastern states... correct me if I'm wrong.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

by me the only union by the gas meter is incorporated into the meter bar that the utility supplies ..but you can use a union at the gas appliance where ever it is( attic, basement, crawl space) , no unions on any gas runs going to an appliance..


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

Unions have to be "readily accessible" by code.

A "Right and Left Nipple/ Coupling" are used for repairs in the middle of a system, where a Union is not legal.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

I have only seen left/right nipples on ancient hydronic systems in my area


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm going to have to check my book to see if it's in NFPA 54 or the Massachusetts amendments but for concealed locations we're allowed to to use either a flange or punched union. I've heard of L/R couplings before but I've never seen one.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

No unions, running threads, swing joints, gas cocks, flared joints, compression joints may not be concealed.

I have a power coop down here that will not even let a coupling be concealed, single pipe section going into attic then overhead in that ventilated space and down into mech rooms.

Under slabs, encasement is required, outside no seal on the casing, inside casing above grade and sealed.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

This NFPA 54 2012 edition, and BCT there is no amendment to this.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> View attachment 86137
> This NFPA 54 2012 edition, and BCT there is no amendment to this.


I remember spending an entire night in my journeyman course and my masters course on using flange unions and punched unions on concealed gas piping. I'll see if I can find some of my old handouts from school.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

bct p&h said:


> I remember spending an entire night in my journeyman course and my masters course on using flange unions and punched unions on concealed gas piping. I'll see if I can find some of my old handouts from school.


 it was in the old code book.


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

plumbdrum said:


> it was in the old code book.


Did you just call me old?
I just used a flanged union a couple months ago in Boston because they were moving a wall, inspector didn't say anything about it. In fact, I removed a hand tight union on that line that was buried in a wall when I did it.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

GAN said:


> No unions, running threads, swing joints, gas cocks, flared joints, compression joints may not be concealed. I have a power coop down here that will not even let a coupling be concealed, single pipe section going into attic then overhead in that ventilated space and down into mech rooms. Under slabs, encasement is required, outside no seal on the casing, inside casing above grade and sealed.


 lol running thread nipples haven't been around for some time. Everything here if in concealed place or open plenum return must be either butt weird or socket weld fittings. The only place here compression joints on gas are aloud is in the pilot line on the equipment. In reality there is no reason to have any unions,gas cocks or flared joints in concealed space.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

bct p&h said:


> I remember spending an entire night in my journeyman course and my masters course on using flange unions and punched unions on concealed gas piping. I'll see if I can find some of my old handouts from school.


Punched union??


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Punched union??


 tighten her up, then use a center punch and a ball pean hammer to lock the nut in place


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## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

Like I always say -code or common sense- no unions in an attic-go fook yourself


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

rjbphd said:


> Just a one nipple for pranks.. but there's plenty of them in all size from supplyhouse.com


Never heard or seen a fitting or nipple like this,20yrs in the biz and never seen these,can see where they have their place fer sure:yes:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

plumbdrum said:


> tighten her up, then use a center punch and a ball pean hammer to lock the nut in place


Useless:laughing:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

sparky said:


> Never heard or seen a fitting or nipple like this,20yrs in the biz and never seen these,can see where they have their place fer sure:yes:


Just ordered left/right coupling... to add to prank training. .


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

sparky said:


> Useless:laughing:


 I agree, but at one time it was an accepted practice.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Just weld it then you don't need couplings or screwed up fittings.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> Just weld it then you don't need couplings or screwed up fittings.


Ya you do.. how you think pipe fitters get all screwed up (???


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## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

wyrickmech said:


> Just weld it then you don't need couplings or screwed up fittings.


Wait, you mean weld a joint together while in a residential attic? Seems more dangerous than having a joint in a wall, especially with a low pitched roof and trying to work in a confined space with lots of flammable wood and insulation. 

I'm wondering now how ya'll fish a straight 8-10 foot length of black iron pipe down a wall from a residential attic without a coupling? Are ya'll running HDPE pipe in a wall that can be puncture with one hanging picture? I don't get it. Enlighten me.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Cajunhiker said:


> Wait, you mean weld a joint together while in a residential attic? Seems more dangerous than having a joint in a wall, especially with a low pitched roof and trying to work in a confined space with lots of flammable wood and insulation.
> 
> I'm wondering now how ya'll fish a straight 8-10 foot length of black iron pipe down a wall from a residential attic without a coupling? Are ya'll running HDPE pipe in a wall that can be puncture with one hanging picture? I don't get it. Enlighten me.


couplings are fine in a wall, unions are not...


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Private utility coop in my area won't even allow couplings in a wall. Have to cut a hole in the roof and send a solid section from basement to attic......... Want to choke them.......


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

GAN said:


> Private utility coop in my area won't even allow couplings in a wall. Have to cut a hole in the roof and send a solid section from basement to attic......... Want to choke them.......


Then ban the elbow in the walls. .


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

nfpa 54 2002.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Then ban the elbow in the walls. .


 some areas will not allow threaded fittings in concealed spaces. Around here we have to weld it if it is covered or in a open plenum. I am confused why anyone would want a union in a place where there is no equipment. Unions upstream of a valve is not smart.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> some areas will not allow threaded fittings in concealed spaces. Around here we have to weld it if it is covered or in a open plenum. I am confused why anyone would want a union in a place where there is no equipment. Unions upstream of a valve is not smart.


Union upstream of a valve, seen it alot here.. by furance companies doing boiler replacement. . Was on job yesterday, re roughing the supply /return for new radiator, the boiler replacement was truly hacked by two furance companies, in fact, it was so bad that they installed electric baseboard in front room ,between two old radiators which are large enough to heat the room..


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Union upstream of a valve, seen it alot here.. by furance companies doing boiler replacement. . Was on job yesterday, re roughing the supply /return for new radiator, the boiler replacement was truly hacked by two furance companies, in fact, it was so bad that they installed electric baseboard in front room ,between two old radiators which are large enough to heat the room..


 ya same here handy hacks screw it up before we ever get a chance to do it right. Unions on the wrong side of the valve is something that really gets under my skin. Bet they got there shorts on the right way don't really see why they can't do the same with a union.


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

I see on new construction that installers will use tees, with plugs or nipples and cap, instead of couplings. (Usually in exposed areas). 

When installers do not do that, and the homeowner all of a sudden wants an outlet added, and no tees were used as couplings, they cut it apart and throw a union in by the new branch tee.

Most I have seen don't have a full port ball valve either before the union. 

I know this topic is about concealed spaces but thought I'd throw this out there.

Not much gas attic work in my area.

Usually the meter is outside, enters in the ceiling space in the basement, and your main is in the basement. If going up to second floor or ceiling of a garage you can get a full piece
straight through to your outlet area.

If using the csst, always leave connections exposed. Have seen them buried below toe kicks, ceilings, and walls. SMH

What's you take on trapping a gas line?

What's the difference between "wet" and "dry" NATURAL gas. Is it the gas supplier and/or location of where it comes from or treated? I'm blind on that one


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

moonapprentice said:


> I see on new construction that installers will use tees, with plugs or nipples and cap, instead of couplings. (Usually in exposed areas).
> 
> When installers do not do that, and the homeowner all of a sudden wants an outlet added, and no tees were used as couplings, they cut it apart and throw a union in by the new branch tee.
> 
> ...


Never heard of wet or dry natural gas:laughing:


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

The natural gas withdrawn from a well is called *wet natural gas *because it usually contains liquid hydrocarbons and nonhydrocarbon gases. 

Methane and other useful gases are separated from the wet natural gas near the site of the well or at a natural gas processing plant. The processed gas is called *dry or consumer-grade natural gas.* This natural gas is sent through pipelines to underground storage fields and/or to distribution companies, and then to consumers.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

moonapprentice said:


> I see on new construction that installers will use tees, with plugs or nipples and cap, instead of couplings. (Usually in exposed areas).
> 
> When installers do not do that, and the homeowner all of a sudden wants an outlet added, and no tees were used as couplings, they cut it apart and throw a union in by the new branch tee.
> 
> ...


those tees and caps are for sediment in the gas and are usually put by each appliance, in my area its against code to put tees inline with caps for future gas line runs, makes it too easy for home owners to do their own gas piping..


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> those tees and caps are for sediment in the gas and are usually put by each appliance, in my area its against code to put tees inline with caps for future gas line runs, makes it too easy for home owners to do their own gas piping..


 adding to a natural gas line will change the load that is why they don't like it. Change the load change the size.


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## The Plumber Man (Sep 27, 2015)

In louisiana where do you guys use unions? Im in orleans and jefferson parish and we use unions at the water heater and furnace.Stove and dryer are flex lines. I have been sent on repairs and have had to cut a union in but only where exposed in the attic. We do use couplings in the wall if needed. All the pre exsisting gas work i ever saw doing re-modles have couplings in the wall when its 2 stories and i have never seen any welded fittings. Again,i am at the bottom of the map so it would be cool to hear from any locals.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Crawling around an attic and spotted a left/right nipple and coupling


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

On the reverse threaded end of nipple and coupling some manufacturers put the score marks


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