# Lead Poured Joints



## MirMahmutovic# (Nov 4, 2018)

I work out of Chicago, I did New Construction for a non union shop. We were busy busy doing smaller buildings, 40-65 units, with commercial spaces under them. Everything is Cast/copper. I quite enjoy working with cast iron, packing & pouring joints. From what I have read on this Forum & others a lot of people have negative views on pouring joints. Now I do service and still have to pour a lot of joints when were doing stack replacements & such. I find it to be quite simple & rewarding work. I'm just looking for some feed back, thank you.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Embarassed to say I only poured one or 2 closet rings many years ago. didnt really know what I was doing. Allways liked the look of hubbed joints simple and rugged. I heard Chicago still doesent use no hub is that true. Im not negative on poured joints . I think it comes down to money andowners want a cheap price plumbing contractors arent going to offer poured joint at same price as no hub.


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## MirMahmutovic# (Nov 4, 2018)

Chicago is changing to a certain extent, I was on a small commercial build that was PVC underground. The City made a ammendment to the code,6 month trial program I have never seen a no hub build here in Chicago. Guys use no hub all the time because it's easier in certain cases, but I've only seen it in a residential setting. Anything large scale commerical is all Cast, poured. I'm not sure how cheap it is, a 4 inch non shear mission band is $15. A 5 lb. Piggy is $25, plus oakum $20. You can get 5 joints out of a 5 lb. Piggy, the only thing is here no hub fittings from my experience are a lot pricer.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

I figure its cost material and labor its cheaper to build using no hub. but your saying the oposite . Organized labor (union) could be resistant to labor saving building material and systems. 
Sure seems a really solid and awsome build to me and like to see ithere Wish I could say I built that way, guess i need to travel to chicago and get on with a big project ha ha agree its simple . No hub is pretty darn good but dought its as good.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

hot boiling lead is a giant hazard both for burning the skin and eyes along with the vapors and the flames from the melting pot..it also takes much more time todo so the union loves that to increase the labor rate on any construction job..I have poured my fair share of lead joints and still occasionally pour one when it makes sense..why doesnt chicago use tight seals? instead of lead?


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## MirMahmutovic# (Nov 4, 2018)

I dont know what right seals are, can you explain ? I understand what your saying about the kiln but I have not seen anyone have a accident because guys know the hazard and take precaution. As far as the union is concerned I would love to be a union plumber, best training, wages & benefits.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

MirMahmutovic# said:


> I dont know what right seals are, can you explain ? I understand what your saying about the kiln but I have not seen anyone have a accident because guys know the hazard and take precaution. As far as the union is concerned I would love to be a union plumber, best training, wages & benefits.



this is a tight seal, it replaces the lead and oakum https://www.zoro.com/jones-stephens-gasket-service-weight-multi-tite-4-v95004/i/G5427298/


makes alot more sense using them as you can still manipulate the joint after the pipe is pressed into the hub and take apart with minimal effort and reuse the seal..no fire, no fumes, no chance of burning anything....


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Ive put some of the tight seal in thought it was called Tyseal (brand name I spose) . Are the fittings Identical to lead and oakum ones ? I didnt think they were. Even the tightseal I dought is cheaper than no hub. otherwise same thing we wouldnt be putting no hub in


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm not sure where Rjbphd is lately, but he is a Chicago plumber. I thought I heard some one say they want lead poured cast-iron joints in Chicago due to the fire-proof nature {or fire-resistant} of cast iron with lead joints.


I have poured a few lead and oakum joints, not too many. A closet flange, and some replacement cast iron doing service work.


With new construction when I was in the union, we worked on hospitals and gov't. buildings and we used no-hub cast iron. 


But in 50-60 years all that cast iron rusts and rots out. Why use it? Especially in a damp sandy soil like S. FL where it is hot and humid all summer long. And the summers are waaaay too long down there.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

jeffreyplumber said:


> Ive put some of the tight seal in thought it was called Tyseal (brand name I spose) . Are the fittings Identical to lead and oakum ones ? I didnt think they were. Even the tightseal I dought is cheaper than no hub. otherwise same thing we wouldnt be putting no hub in



yes the hubbed pipe is the same for lead and oakum or the tight seals..


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tommy plumber said:


> I'm not sure where Rjbphd is lately, but he is a Chicago plumber. I thought I heard some one say they want lead poured cast-iron joints in Chicago due to the fire-proof nature {or fire-resistant} of cast iron with lead joints.
> 
> 
> .



by the time fire gets to the inside of walls to heat up the pipe the building is gone...either melting the lead or burning the tight seals...same argument that pvc isnt used in commercial due to it burning and giving off poisonous fumes..if all the burning office furniture didnt kill you then the heat will , long before the pvc burns and fumes you out...


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> by the time fire gets to the inside of walls to heat up the pipe the building is gone...either melting the lead or burning the tight seals...same argument that pvc isnt used in commercial due to it burning and giving off poisonous fumes..if all the burning office furniture didnt kill you then the heat will , long before the pvc burns and fumes you out...


I thought pvc/abs wasn’t allowed in commercial was because during a fire it can melt and then the pipe acts as a chase for the fire to go up floors.


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## MirMahmutovic# (Nov 4, 2018)

Oke, I know what these gaskets are. We use them for new construction underground work. From what I've heard the reason for poured cast is for fireproof reasons. This is what I have been told. I for one like packing joints all day long hahaha, little plumbing humor. The city is changing we did a lot of PVC buildings 8-16 units that were all PVC. Fun stuff I enjoy working with th e different types of pipe.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Chicago is a Union town and is basically stuck in the past due to the need to keep the unioins strong... make work difficult , keep the codes strong so hacks cant underbid them ect ect..
. They could VERY easily switch to no hub cast but wont do it,,,or even PVC but it all boils down to politics... and that place is totally corrupt ... Its Obamas feeding ground remember??

even though their lottery cant pay the winners their money right now because the state is going bankrupt and they are handing out IOUs to the winners, they still keep the political machine going

I poured a lot of lead fittings when I was a kid and then it switched to copper and then it went to PVC and all the tools were **** canned to a corner in the basement to never see the light of day again...

Pouring lead is a good skill to know and learn, but of course the no hubs and ferncos are just too easy ..... ..


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

It’s technically called a service weight gasket. For service weight pipe. Ty-seal is the manufacturer Tyler’s gasket. Mission makes them, fernco makes them, etc. Service weight CI has slightly different dimensions than extra heavy CI.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Debo22 said:


> I thought pvc/abs wasn’t allowed in commercial was because during a fire it can melt and then the pipe acts as a chase for the fire to go up floors.


We regularly use PVC on commercial, if they want more fireproof we install XFR PVC.

As for lead pouring when I started 25 years ago it was already a long forgotten thing. Only seen old rusty tools in the shop and wondered what the hell they were used for. I bet the plumbers who poured lead are all dead of old age by now.

As for wasting time being union work it doesn't make sense here. Even by law everyone is union for new construction, the company who wants to pour lead will be outbid by the one who uses no-hub clamps.

The only reason cast is still installed here is for noise reduction otherwise all plastic and very rarely copper. If there are other reasons cast is installed please enlighten me.


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## Garyharkrader (Dec 4, 2018)

I’m a plumber from Texas worked commercial buildings for thirty years things have changed from using lead Joints in the underground to beating the seal with a lead whomper to using pvc now its a normal to use cas iron in stack out I trust no hub and heavy duty bands if properly installed and supported right it will be there forever I still run across lead joints and most plumbers say what is that and have never poured a vertical joint least using a running rope when I took my journeyman’s test in the 80 s that was the last time it was on the state test somethings are never to old to learn like most comments no body hardly knows the tools to pour a lead joint plumbers to protect the health of a nation


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Garyharkrader said:


> I’m a plumber from Texas worked commercial buildings for thirty years things have changed from using lead Joints in the underground to beating the seal with a lead whomper to using pvc now its a normal to use cas iron in stack out I trust no hub and heavy duty bands if properly installed and supported right it will be there forever I still run across lead joints and most plumbers say what is that and have never poured a vertical joint least using a running rope when I took my journeyman’s test in the 80 s that was the last time it was on the state test somethings are never to old to learn like most comments no body hardly knows the tools to pour a lead joint plumbers to protect the health of a nation



to get my masters liscense back in the 70s, you had to pour a horizontal 4 inch lead joint and it had to pass a pressure test under water....... I passed the test but had done this many times before.... 

lots of guys failed and also they had issues with them bringing in jerry rigged up equipment to melt their own lead....:surprise::surprise:

.the story goes that one fellow set the testing area on fire when his propane equipment let loose right in the middle of everything:vs_laugh::vs_laugh: 

sometime after this accident they decided to forget the whole thing.....no one regrets it because cast is not gonna last as long as sch40 PVC..


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

When I took my test the guy next to me tripped over his lead furnace and scattered a pot of molten lead across the concrete floor. 


He didn’t pass that day.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

No one regularly pours lead anymore where I live. Most have poured at least a couple joints in the past decade but that's usually just when the only thing you have access to connect to is a hub without opening a wall or breaking concrete. Some guys will just use lead wool and then partially melt it. There is one guy with a custom caulking iron that has his initials in it but even he only pours a couple joints a year.


My big issue with pouring joints isn't even the joint, it's the crappy pipe. I assume it's a low silicon content which would make the pipe more expensive to make, this newer stuff just rusts like crazy. No-hub is almost as bad. The only "good" cast iron pipe I have run into was Dur-iron high silicon specialty, Abendroth brothers from the 20's-30's, or other non-descript pre-war(The big one) cast iron pipe.


We will often use a piece of no-hub for the vertical to limit noise but even that is rare. We do have this one house, the guy wanted all no-hub(pvc stub outs/traps), we have had several clogging issues just from the rust falling from the vent stacks or grabbing hair/paper. They go away for a couple weeks several times in the year causing the rust to dry out and flake off and compound when water is finally run. That house is only 12 years old. It is the reason we bought my general mini-jetter.


We too call the rubber seals for cast-iron hubs "tyseals". I have never heard another name for them.





Everybody knows the best waste pipe is TUBOTRON!!




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