# Sewer camera advice



## lrabun (Jan 12, 2015)

Hey Guys,

I'm getting into sewer camera inspections and have very little training or experience in the field. I'm look for someone that is willing to answer several technical questions about lateral sewer lines and share their knowledge/experience on the subject. 

I'm in Eugene Oregon so if you are close to me I understand you might not want to help you competitor.

I can email of PM you with my questions thanks.


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm willing to help. PM me if you have any questions.


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

What do you want to know?


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## lrabun (Jan 12, 2015)

cjtheplumber said:


> What do you want to know?


Hey Cj,

I know there's a lot of questions here so answer what you will and maybe it's just a start to a good conversation.


Here are some of my initial questions:

1. Do you use contracts for this service, if so does anyone have a contract that I can review?
2. In addition to gloves, sanitized wipes, and a large pipe wrench, breaker bar for the wrench, what other tools would I need?
3. Do you guys provide a written report in addition to the the video, if so do you have an example of the report?
4. Other than being a nightmare what else can you tell me about removing plugs in cast iron pipe. Such as, is there a risk of breaking the cast iron pipe if you're reefing on the wrench too hard, etc?
5. Due to the age and construction of many homes in my area I have a feeling I will be accessing the lateral lines from the main vent on the roof. Is there anything I need to know about accessing from this point?
6. Any tricks to the trade you can share?
7. Do you scope septic systems?
8. If you do is there anything done differently when doing these types systems?

These are what I know to be the main defects that I'm looking for when doing the inspection. Let m know what I'm missing. Also please let me know when the following is a MAJOR concern.

A. Cracks
B. Separations in the pipe
C. Lower spots in the pipe
D. Crushed pipes
E. Obstruction in the pipe including roots, intersecting pipes......? 
F. Sewer lines that go into the neighbors yard
G. Fractures in pipes. 


Ok here are my biggest questions.

If I observe any of the problems listed above (A-G) how do I advise my client? What conditions warrant immediate repair?

This is my concern, I'm sure I will inspect lateral lines that have defective conditions and have probably had this defective condition for several years, but are functioning at the time of inspection. How do I handle this without "killing the deal"?

Feel free to PM, email, or call me to discuss. 

THANKS for all your input.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Maybe learn how not to do an inspection from this. 
You have to jump to the end for his narration of the video.

http://youtu.be/3Grc3Hy3Tis


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## lrabun (Jan 12, 2015)

sierra2000 said:


> Maybe learn how not to do an inspection from this.
> You have to jump to the end for his narration of the video.
> 
> http://youtu.be/3Grc3Hy3Tis


Let me ask a stupid question because apparently I am when it comes to these types of inspections.LOL. What was he doing wrong on the video?
Thanks


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm guessing that it's too long? I couldn't sit through it...seen too many.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

That was painful to watch, footage on screen would have been nice and the lighting sucked hard to say if it was turned down or if maybe it was a micro reel instead of at least a mini seesnake. I saw the lighting flicker a lot in the clay. A centering ball would have helped to see the whole pipe since the line was really no where as bad as he made it seem.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

lrabun said:


> Let me ask a stupid question because apparently I am when it comes to these types of inspections.LOL. What was he doing wrong on the video? Thanks


It was painful to watch. I jumped to the end also, couldn't watch it all. Jump to the 18 minute mark where he starts talking. 
The video is hard to see until he starts talking and he made a lot of misdiagnosing. Sounds like he is new to inspections.


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

I saw an offset and a separation at one joint at best that may be of concern.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Soo many people in the business with no clue what they're doing. And worse, they think they know. Lots of questions, lots of time working under a true master, lots of years in the field, lots of realization that you don't ever know it all, and then you start your own shop. Don't believe me?, start off inexperienced and pay the price.


David


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## lrabun (Jan 12, 2015)

sierra2000 said:


> It was painful to watch. I jumped to the end also, couldn't watch it all. Jump to the 18 minute mark where he starts talking.
> The video is hard to see until he starts talking and he made a lot of misdiagnosing. Sounds like he is new to inspections.


First off thanks for posting the video, it sparked some good conversation and it's helped me understand how a plumber (at least you guys) would view these type problems.

Serria, could you point out what he misdiagnosed? Also you mentioned the offset might be of a concern. What do you mean by "it might be of a concern" would you recommend replacing that section, if so why?

Could someone give me an idea of when only a section needs to be repaired and when the whole line needs to be repaired?

Os the only time you recommend relining a sewer line vs. replacing it when some one doesn't want to destroy there lawn? What are the costs or one vs. the other?

From a home inspection point of view. If you where buying a house and had the sewer lateral inspected, what conditions would warrant asking the seller to fix the problem?

On another note. I scoped my sewer line yesterday. I had to access it for a 3" copper vent on the roof. The 3" copper was tee'd into the lateral line which was made of cast iron. There where three 45 degree turns separated by several feet of pipe before it turned into a concrete pipe. I wasn't able to make it to the city sewer line. In fact it was *extremely* hard to even get as I did. 

I'm sure this has happened to you guys before. I assume you still charge the full inspection fee even if you don't get the the city sewer line? 

Do you charge a flat rate for instance $175 for the first hour and then you $75 for an additional hour?

David, yes I believe you, but no risk, no reward! You seem to have a lot of experience anything a true master like yourself is willing to share? I have lots of questions!

Thanks again guys


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Let me go back to the original post.....


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

lrabun said:


> Also you mentioned the offset might be of a concern. What do you mean by "it might be of a concern" would you recommend replacing that section, if so why? Could someone give me an idea of when only a section needs to be repaired and when the whole line needs to be repaired? Os the only time you recommend relining a sewer line vs. replacing it when some one doesn't want to destroy there lawn? What are the costs or one vs. the other? From a home inspection point of view. If you where buying a house and had the sewer lateral inspected, what conditions would warrant asking the seller to fix the problem?


Concern would be that offset that will get worse if a repair isn't done. Same with the big separation in one of the joints. 
If it's just one section then a pipe patch would do.
If it's more than one or two defective spots then it may be better to line or burst the whole thing.

It's faster, easier and less restoration of the landscaping to burst or line it vs digging it up. If you're going into the street lining is the most cost effective way to go.

If I was buying that house I would ask them to repair at least those two spots.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

18:18 no offset
18:54 run water
19:28 no offset
19:43 no offset
20:01 missed offset, minor 
20:15 no offset

holy frick this guy is amazing!

21:24 roots filling approx 30% but majority is in the poop stream.
22:01 offset 3/4"
22:26 joint separation and cracked
22:48 Offset 3/8"

I'm assuming this is 4" pipe. I would recommend to hydrojet it and do a pipe patch at the crack section. I'd also reinspect at 1 year to compare joint movement before recommending repair of the 3/4" offset(although doing the repair at the time of the crack repair would save the customer money on the hydrojet). The 3/8 offset is at a change of material so the fernco is most likely holding everything in place.

How did you find such a treasure S2000? This is a great training video lol


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

This guy did the inspection and gave a copy to the homeowner who is selling the house. The buyers are ready to back out based on this inspection and want all that crap the inspector pointed out fixed so the homeowner called me up for a price to Reline it.


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## lrabun (Jan 12, 2015)

sierra2000 said:


> This guy did the inspection and gave a copy to the homeowner who is selling the house. The buyers are ready to back out based on this inspection and want all that crap the inspector pointed out fixed so the homeowner called me up for a price to Reline it.


Serria 

Are you talking about the inspection in the video you posted in Post #5, or something different? 

If your talking about a different inspection that in Post #5. Do the buyers have a reason to want to back out of the deal or did the original inspector over exaggerate the condition of the pipe?

All you guys are helping me out SOO much with all these different perspectives. Thanks


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

He over exaggerated. Sediment buildup? Looked like dookie to me. IDK.


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## cjtheplumber (Mar 9, 2012)

I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge hope it helps.


Here are some of my initial questions:

1. Do you use contracts for this service, if so does anyone have a contract that I can review?

Yes always use contracts/invoice never do any work without signed authorization and an upfront price for your services. This is the best way to go so that there is no confusion later.

2. In addition to gloves, sanitized wipes, and a large pipe wrench, breaker bar for the wrench, what other tools would I need? 

Ladder


3. Do you guys provide a written report in addition to the the video, if so do you have an example of the report?

Don't have an example. You have to write what you found, your diagnosis.
Example broken area at 50ft, roots etc whatever you see is causing a problem be as detail as you can. Have the client be there when doing an inspection so that he can confirm what you wrote.

4. Other than being a nightmare what else can you tell me about removing plugs in cast iron pipe. Such as, is there a risk of breaking the cast iron pipe if you're reefing on the wrench too hard, etc?

You can always use a vent to access the drain for inspection or remove a toilet.:thumbsup:


5. Due to the age and construction of many homes in my area I have a feeling I will be accessing the lateral lines from the main vent on the roof. Is there anything I need to know about accessing from this point?

Be safe don't fall, don't force the camera in. 3" and 4" vents work best. Stay away from 2" make sure is a straight drop.


6. Any tricks to the trade you can share? 
Buy good equipment such as a see snake cheap is no good. More of a tool recommendation tricks depends on the situation at hand.


7. Do you scope septic systems?

Myself only the line leading to it.

8. If you do is there anything done differently when doing these types systems? 
Make sure you know when you dropped in the tank.

These are what I know to be the main defects that I'm looking for when doing the inspection. Let m know what I'm missing. Also please let me know when the following is a MAJOR concern.

A. Cracks
B. Separations in the pipe
C. Lower spots in the pipe
D. Crushed pipes
E. Obstruction in the pipe including roots, intersecting pipes......? 
F. Sewer lines that go into the neighbors yard
G. Fractures in pipes. 

All of the above are major concerns and should be taken care of. Repair or replace depending on how bad they are.


Ok here are my biggest questions.

If I observe any of the problems listed above (A-G) how do I advise my client? What conditions warrant immediate repair?

Again when you are looking at it you will know how bad it is. As far as how to advise. Show them what you see, tell them what the problem is. Mr. Jones you have a broken pipe, we need to fix it... Again tell them and show them what you see.

This is my concern, I'm sure I will inspect lateral lines that have defective conditions and have probably had this defective condition for several years, but are functioning at the time of inspection. How do I handle this without "killing the deal"?

Are you there to solve the problem they know they have. Or are you there to tell them they have a problem they already know about? Tell it like it is, if they need to replace it or they need to repair it. Would you tell them the line is fine?

Feel free to PM, email, or call me to discuss. 

THANKS for all your input.[/QUOTE]

Everyone is in on point I highly recommend you read and listen to these guys. I had to learn lots of things the hard way, some by mistakes PZ is speeding up the process for lots of new comers. This site is of great help read as much as you can. Is like a plumbing and business encyclopedia take advantage.:thumbsup:


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## lrabun (Jan 12, 2015)

CJ, Thank you for taking the time to answer those questions! 

Everyone's input has been very helpful for understanding how to report conditions I observe during a sewer camera inspection.

So let me summarize what I learned to make sure I'm getting this correctly. Anyone is welcome to chime in...

1. The following are all conditions that should be reported and repair should always be recommended regardless the degree of cracking, separation, offsetting or root intrusion???

A. Cracks
B. Separations in the pipe
C. Lower spots in the pipe
D. Crushed pipes
E. Obstruction in the pipe including roots, intersecting pipes......? 
F. Sewer lines that go into the neighbors yard
G. Fractures in pipes. 

2. If more than 2 sections of the pipe have any of these condition (minus roots that can be removed by jetting) then replacement or relining maybe more economical?

CJ provided some good feedback on the following two questions, but I'm not sure I'm clear on the the answers. Could someone else give some feedback on these two questions.

3. If I observe any of the problems listed above (A-G) how do I advise my client? What conditions warrant immediate repair? For instance at how many inches is a separation and a offset need repair. At this point my understanding is any amount of separation or offset needs repair. 

4. This is my concern, I'm sure I will inspect lateral lines that have defective conditions and have probably had this defective condition for several years, but are functioning at the time of inspection. How do I handle this without "killing the deal"?

THIS IS WHERE I NEED THE MOST HELP RIGHT NOW...

I want to get a contract drawn up by my attorney, but would really like a starting point for her, since she has likely never done a contract like this. Does anyone have a contract they could PM me?

Everyone has been so helpful, I feel guilty I don't have anything (at this point) to give back. So this is what I can offer.... If any of you guys are in Oregon in late summer or fall and want to go salmon fishing let me know. I have 19' NorthRiver and very thing we'd need to go sling some salmon blood!!!

Thanks again


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

CJ, Thank you for taking the time to answer those questions! 

Everyone's input has been very helpful for understanding how to report conditions I observe during a sewer camera inspection.

So let me summarize what I learned to make sure I'm getting this correctly. Anyone is welcome to chime in...

1. The following are all conditions that should be reported and repair should always be recommended regardless the degree of cracking, separation, offsetting or root intrusion???

A. Cracks
B. Separations in the pipe
C. Lower spots in the pipe
D. Crushed pipes
E. Obstruction in the pipe including roots, intersecting pipes......? 
F. Sewer lines that go into the neighbors yard
G. Fractures in pipes. 

2. If more than 2 sections of the pipe have any of these condition (minus roots that can be removed by jetting) then replacement or relining maybe more economical? 
ONE SECTION = PIPE PATCH. MORE THAN ONE AREA = RELINE, BURST OR DIG UP AND REPLACE.

CJ provided some good feedback on the following two questions, but I'm not sure I'm clear on the the answers. Could someone else give some feedback on these two questions.

3. If I observe any of the problems listed above (A-G) how do I advise my client? 
SHOW THEM THE CAMERA SO THEY SEE THE CRACKS, CRUSHED PIPE, LOW SPOT HOLDING WATER THEMSELVES.

What conditions warrant immediate repair? 
CRUSHED PIPE SINCE NOTHING WILL FLOW. 

For instance at how many inches is a separation and a offset need repair. At this point my understanding is any amount of separation or offset needs repair. 

4. This is my concern, I'm sure I will inspect lateral lines that have defective conditions and have probably had this defective condition for several years, but are functioning at the time of inspection. How do I handle this without "killing the deal"? 
IT MAY HAVE WORKED FOR YEARS BUT IT'S CONTAMINATING THE GROUND AND ANY FRUIT TREES THAT ARE NEARBY. 



THIS IS WHERE I NEED THE MOST HELP RIGHT NOW...

I want to get a contract drawn up by my attorney, but would really like a starting point for her, since she has likely never done a contract like this. Does anyone have a contract they could PM me?

Everyone has been so helpful, I feel guilty I don't have anything (at this point) to give back. So this is what I can offer.... If any of you guys are in Oregon in late summer or fall and want to go salmon fishing let me know. I have 19' NorthRiver and very thing we'd need to go sling some salmon blood!!!

Thanks again


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Eventually that escaping water is going to wash away the supporting dirt and cause the sewer to collapse, then they have a bigger problem.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

dhal22 said:


> Soo many people in the business with no clue what they're doing. And worse, they think they know. Lots of questions, lots of time working under a true master, lots of years in the field, lots of realization that you don't ever know it all, and then you start your own shop. Don't believe me?, start off inexperienced and pay the price.
> 
> 
> David


It's amazing/embarrassing on how much you think you know, then 10 years later you realize what a fool I am. It cost a lot to learn


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