# looking for a pump



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

So Do they make this item.... a mini bilge pump
something like a condensation pump 

I need to find or make a pump
that would *pump out* a *washing machine pan* if it were to fill *one inch deep* with water..... 

got 3 condo buildings 4 stories high with 12 units per building... the dumbasses who built the places in the mid 90s never installed floor drains in the mechanical rooms so when the water heaters fail in each unit , 
or the washing machines burst, 
everyone under them gets a real good bath..... 
Yes, these are 450k condos ...very very nice places

So yesterday one let loose on the third floor and pissed down through 2 real nice units below... hoseing down nice wood floors ceilings, carpeting ect ect.....

so we install a new bradford white 50 gallon LOW BOY in a washing maching pan... this fit snugly under the furnace installed above it. 

we pipe the t+p to the condensate drain which comes out of the wall about 18 inches above the floor and we gve them a water alarm that sits down in the washing machine pan.... The washing machine pan looks great , fits great in the room I will probably be changing out a few more of these over the summer.... of course it will only hold about 2 inches of water in the pan


all I can come up with is a 12 volt bilge pump with
a converter to 120 if I can find one that will come on automatically at only one inch of water 


So does anyone know of something out there that fits my requirements??

send me a link to any good brands that you know of


thank you


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Check out a local marine parts house. I know they make bilge pumps for small boats with a float that will turn the pump on automatically, and the float can be set to different levels. I think walmart might even have these pumps.

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

thanks ,

already done that, its no big deal to rig something up
from e-bay but I was thinking that SURELY someone has already thought this up and has marketed something in a pre-package deal to sell to up-scale condos in high rise buildings......:blink: 

... 
 naaaaa:no:


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> So Do they make this item.... a mini bilge pump
> something like a condensation pump


I use this Rule pump all of the time. I use it to pump out tanks and pools and also for sump wells in basements.

Pump water down to at least 3/8". Include 3/4" garden hose adapter. Nos. 3P992 and 3P993 have double-insulated power cord and permanent-magnet intermittent-duty motor. No. 2VAN7 has an amp sensor that turns off the pump if no water is present, preventing a dry run. Pump cycles every 3 min. and shuts down after 5 sec. if unit senses it is not pumping water.

https://m.grainger.com/mobile/details/?R=3P993


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Plumb Bob said:


> I use this Rule pump all of the time. I use it to pump out tanks and pools and also for sump wells in basements.
> 
> Pump water down to at least 3/8". Include 3/4" garden hose adapter. Nos. 3P992 and 3P993 have double-insulated power cord and permanent-magnet intermittent-duty motor. No. 2VAN7 has an amp sensor that turns off the pump if no water is present, preventing a dry run. Pump cycles every 3 min. and shuts down after 5 sec. if unit senses it is not pumping water.
> 
> https://m.grainger.com/mobile/details/?R=3P993


May not work for your application, depends on how fast leak is


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Master Mark said:


> So Do they make this item.... a mini bilge pump
> something like a condensation pump
> 
> I need to find or make a pump
> ...



You could use a condensate pump....with some minor alterations to the bottom of the casing...allow the water to reach the float from underneath rather than the top. Cut the case down to where the float trips at 1"....wouldn't need to step up from 12 volts either. They can run 120v.....pick up at HVAC supplier for around 15 bucks.....otherwise, walmart sells a small bilge.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> You could use a condensate pump....with some minor alterations to the bottom of the casing...allow the water to reach the float from underneath rather than the top. Cut the case down to where the float trips at 1"....wouldn't need to step up from 12 volts either. They can run 120v.....pick up at HVAC supplier for around 15 bucks.....otherwise, walmart sells a small bilge.


Where are you getting them for $15?


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

I am thinking the condensate wouldn't give you the gpm you'd need to stave off a flood....


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> Where are you getting them for $15?



Southern Refrigeration


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> Southern Refrigeration


Are they little giant or?


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> Are they little giant or?



all different ones....never the same...But I don't think they'd have the capacity in that situation to allow him to sleep well at night. Motors aren't designed for constant use....just intermittent cycling.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

PinkPlumber said:


> all different ones....never the same...But I don't think they'd have the capacity in that situation to allow him to sleep well at night. Motors aren't designed for constant use....just intermittent cycling.


In combination with the high water alarm it would prolly work fine. Water heaters usually leak for quite a while before failing catastrophically. Notice i said usually!


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> In combination with the high water alarm it would prolly work fine. Water heaters usually leak for quite a while before failing catastrophically. Notice i said usually!



Good point...in conjunction with an alarm it would probably be fine....unless the residents weren't home.....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*thank you*



Plumb Bob said:


> I use this Rule pump all of the time. I use it to pump out tanks and pools and also for sump wells in basements.
> 
> Pump water down to at least 3/8". Include 3/4" garden hose adapter. Nos. 3P992 and 3P993 have double-insulated power cord and permanent-magnet intermittent-duty motor. No. 2VAN7 has an amp sensor that turns off the pump if no water is present, preventing a dry run. Pump cycles every 3 min. and shuts down after 5 sec. if unit senses it is not pumping water.
> 
> https://m.grainger.com/mobile/details/?R=3P993


I cant get a picture to come up but that looks like it might do ok... they are almost too expensive at 200 bucks.... but I dont really care that much as long as they fit the bill....

I wonder how deep the water has to get before it comes on ???

on another note, my 75 gallon Bradford White gas water heater I installed back in 2005 just blew out 
tonight.. water all over the laundry room....

So tomorrow I will be doing a charity job...
for myself


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## east-indy (Mar 11, 2012)

Well at least you saved money buy hiring a plumber to do it.:yes:


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/water-damage-protection-systems.html


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*thanks*



gear junkie said:


> http://www.plumbingsupply.com/water-damage-protection-systems.html


 
thanks for the info... this does shut off the water to the condo which is a good thing...

but this still dont get my water heater pan pumped out before it overflows and goes 
down the walls....


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

http://www.franklin-electric.com/media/documents/995505 HVAC Catalog 03-12 WEB.pdf

I think PP was on the ball on this one.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Something like this might work for small leaks. http://www.e-klimatizace.cz/klima/Data/Prospekt/DPP_Leaflet_English.pdf


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> Something like this might work for small leaks. http://www.e-klimatizace.cz/klima/Data/Prospekt/DPP_Leaflet_English.pdf


 
Thanks 
Thats about the idea of what I had in mind,,, but it only pumps out a small amount of water per hour..
something like 14 liters.. 

with a massive leak it would not keep up but I am gonna give them a call to see what else that they might have


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

What about this. I know the water tank may still drain out, but if you don't shut the water supply off, nothing will keep up, not even a gravity drain. 

Just a suggestion would be that pump Sewer Ratz suggested, along with the Wags to shut off water would be your best bet. Pricey, yea, but beats flooding several units:yes:.

http://www.sdsmarket.com/Taco_WAGS7200_3_Water_Gas_Shut_Off_Safety_Valve_p/wags-7200.htm


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

gear junkie said:


> http://www.plumbingsupply.com/water-damage-protection-systems.html


This.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

PinkPlumber said:


> You could use a condensate pump....with some minor alterations to the bottom of the casing...allow the water to reach the float from underneath rather than the top. Cut the case down to where the float trips at 1"....wouldn't need to step up from 12 volts either. They can run 120v.....pick up at HVAC supplier for around 15 bucks.....otherwise, walmart sells a small bilge.


 
you probably have the best idea so far ......

just get the condensate pump and experiment with it so see if it would actually work .....

for 15 --25 bucks you cant go wrong even if I break it....:thumbup:

I got a Zicon water alarm in the pan already that will wake up the dead.....only $10 bucks

so as long as their is not a catastrophic leak the pan would fill to one inch and
the condensate should come on and pump in out in a 
minute or two....

if they want to install that automatic shut off valve on the main line or hot water side of the system then
that is going way above and beyond the 
cheap and inexpensive way to do this......
--------------------------------------------------------------

on another side note.... yesterday morning my 75 gallon gas heater goes out.. it sits in our laundry room. and almost flooded out our living room but I caught it in time...
so I changed it and put the new unit in a washing machine pan and piped it directly to the drain.... no problem


this morning I get up and we have no water.... down in the mechanical room my CLACK water softener blows the compression nut off the back of it and floods the crap out of the room... getting the carpet wet in 
the daughters bedroom......

the dog was barking like all hell was breaking loose at 6.45 this morning and jumps in bed with wet feet...THAT should have alerted me to sommething..:laughing::laughing:


I am getting paranoid because this crap usually comes in 3zzz:blink:

so and am going to install a number of those Zicon alarms around my home today... I should have done it years ago


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Alarms don't stop water and given the damage water can cause it makes no sense IMO to be trying to stop a flood with $5.00 - $15.00 Wally World parts :no:


The automatic shut off valves work and are resettable. I'd still put some pumps in since you'll still have 47 gallons of water in the tanks after the auto shut off's trip, though.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

I had a water heater blow about 2 weeks ago, in a basement. The HO's were away for the day. Whole basement had 2" of water in it. If they would of had a condensate pump on this, they may of only had 1& 99/100th, of an inch of water instead of 2".

I say if you don't put something in to shut the water off, don't waste your time doing anything then, cuz it aint gonna be enough. This water heater had a floor drain about 10 ft away. Basement still flooded.


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Almost no matter what method you use, it won't work if the HO disables it....IE: unplug to plug something else in, move or break the pump,etc. Sort of like stealing the battery out of the smoke detector.....like the one in my garage right now that I needed in a hurry for my meter.....:whistling2:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*not working for charity*



Don The Plumber said:


> I had a water heater blow about 2 weeks ago, in a basement. The HO's were away for the day. Whole basement had 2" of water in it. If they would of had a condensate pump on this, they may of only had 1& 99/100th, of an inch of water instead of 2".
> 
> *I say if you don't put something in to shut the water off, don't waste your time doing anything then, cuz it aint gonna be enough. This water heater had a floor drain about 10 ft away. Basement still flooded.[/QUOTE]*
> 
> ...


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Then maybe you can sell the lower tenants, some of these.:whistling2:


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

LOL!!!:laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*found the pump*

went to a furnace supply house and found the pump
its pretty sweet and works great.... I bought 3 of them
at 80 bucks each...= I am suprised that it was hard to 
find anything like this on the internet. 

it is a sweet little pump for this application

it will keep up with a garden hose pouring into a washing machine pan so I cant ask for more than that it has to get about 1 1/2 inches deep then it just chugs along...

it .will pump out 150 gallons in one hour with a 5 foot head and 250 gallons with a one foot head.....:thumbup:

  the only thing left that they can do it install an alarm to their burgurley and fire system to tell them when they are away that a flood of water is happenning


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> went to a furnace supply house and found the pump
> its pretty sweet and works great.... I bought 3 of them
> at 80 bucks each...= I am suprised that it was hard to
> find anything like this on the internet.
> ...


The pump set up you have found with a wags valve would the perfect setup in a multi story building. Sell the idea to the HOA then you won't have to sell the idea to all the homeowners.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*wags. valve*



playme1979 said:


> The pump set up you have found with a wags valve would the perfect setup in a multi story building. Sell the idea to the HOA then you won't have to sell the idea to all the homeowners.


I dont think a lot of the Wags valve cause its a one shot deal... dont even know what they are worth


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I now you can rig water alarms to solenoid valves to shut the water off at the main. I guess that would not help except to limit how much the pump would need to pump. 

I like pinks idea.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> I dont think a lot of the Wags valve cause its a one shot deal... dont even know what they are worth


There are valves that do the same thing as the wags valve. I believe one was posted earlier that was resettable.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*this is what we did*

third floor of this 400k condo in their laundry room

this is what we did last week for them... tha battery back up alarm and the pump in a washing machine pan

 the only other thing we could do would be to install a Wags or some other kind of auto shut off valve on the hot side of the system...

 but either way the pan would still fill up eventually and flood out the 2 folks below them on 2 and 1...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> third floor of this 400k condo in their laundry room
> 
> this is what we did last week for them... tha battery back up alarm and the pump in a washing machine pan
> 
> ...


400 k condo and NO floor drain in laundrnette room?!?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> 400 k condo and NO floor drain in laundrnette room?!?


yes , there are 2 buildings with 12 units each
and no one cared to install any kind of floor drain in the laundry rooms ... 


as you can see there is a condensation drain above the floor about 18 inches up....

the GC was a cheap ass.... 
but he got away with it


I am just doing what I can with a bad situation....


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> yes , there are 2 buildings with 12 units each
> and no one cared to install any kind of floor drain in the laundry rooms ...
> 
> 
> ...


That's bad, can't sell floor drains and run it to outside wall??? Sorry for saying that..


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> That's bad, can't sell floor drains and run it to outside wall??? Sorry for saying that..


yea , what an idea 

all you would have to do is rip up the finished ceilings in the units below and core drill a hole for each floor drain... then somehow tie them into the nearest drain

of course there is not gonna be any fall to that drain you want to install .....:laughing:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I got an idea ....

Seeing you said you installed an alarm in the pan ... Could you not wire the alarm to a solenoid valve on the cold water supply ... Might be able to do this with a relay... Once the water pressure is off the tank may not leak at all

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

Go to walmark....buy ridgid kiddie pool (holds more)....done.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

PinkPlumber said:


> Go to walmark....buy ridgid kiddie pool (holds more)....done.


 
good idea but the Oatey laundry tub looks more professional :laughing:


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> I got an idea ....
> 
> Seeing you said you installed an alarm in the pan ... Could you not wire the alarm to a solenoid valve on the cold water supply ... Might be able to do this with a relay... Once the water pressure is off the tank may not leak at all
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


 
that is a great idea, but they dont want to go overboard spending money head over heels for something that might not happen for another 15 years


doing the alarm---silnoid valve and plumbing involved 
would have raised the price dramatically...... it still would have had to be in a pan which would only hold so much water before it pissed all over the place....

its better than everyone else has done in the place
so they feel they went far enough to protect the people down under them

 it is certainly better than what they had


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