# replacing frostproof--can't check for leaks



## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

Have never liked replacing frostproof hosebibbs because you generally can't see the threaded connection once it's in. I have come across some that have been leaking in the wall. You hate to make one more revolution, but since you can't see the connection, you go ahead and make one more revolution. I'm considering replacing with next longer size, so I can see past flange into wall, to check for leaks. Any thoughts?


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## PrecisionPlumb (Feb 17, 2011)

Pipe dope it and tighten enough that turning the handle doesnt loosen it. It should never leak or your doing it wrong


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## PlumberDave (Jan 4, 2009)

Every time, I open the wall for leak check but around here if it is frost free it is newer and connected to copper or some wacko plastic pipe adapter. I have twisted off many a 1/2" copper mip in the wall more or less the sweat style on straight pipe when removing. So I carry 6x6 and 14x14 access panels and explain that this is not the last time it will have to be accessed.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

klempner said:


> Have never liked replacing frostproof hosebibbs because you generally can't see the threaded connection once it's in. I have come across some that have been leaking in the wall. You hate to make one more revolution, but since you can't see the connection, you go ahead and make one more revolution. I'm considering replacing with next longer size, so I can see past flange into wall, to check for leaks. Any thoughts?


Whadda you gonna do, fill the gap with putty?:laughing:


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## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

3/4 wall insulation, which can be put on after the hosebibb is installed if I use the next longer size. I may have answered my own question, since I've started replacing Arrowhead with Woodford, which run 1 1/2" longer, and with their stainless steel seat, will hopefully never have to be removed again.


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## Plantificus (Sep 17, 2009)

I usually sweat a piece of 1/2 in directly to the frost free and stick the whole thing through the wall and connect it on the other side


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Umm, lets see now. You say you change them from the outside?? How do you stop the pipe from twisting? Me, I always change them under the house so I can use 2 wrench's on it. Cant see anyone using one:whistling2:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Bill said:


> Umm, lets see now. You say you change them from the outside?? How do you stop the pipe from twisting? Me, I always change them under the house so I can use 2 wrench's on it. Cant see anyone using one:whistling2:


 Drop ear 90 securely fastened?

Every hose bibb I've ever installed can be easily spun out and replaced with a crescent wrench and a screwdriver.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Drop ear 90 securely fastened?
> 
> Every hose bibb I've ever installed can be easily spun out and replaced with a crescent wrench and a screwdriver.


That's what's up. I do the same.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Plumberman said:


> That's what's up. I do the same.


 Right.

The only time I've ever had to go back and deal with a frost free installation is when some numb nutz HO neglected to remove the garden hose from the hose bibb -- Hello, not only does water expands when it freezes, it also chooses the path of least resistance.

Other than that, if it's installed correctly (graded to empty the chamber of most of the water) then it should be fine until the additives mixed in to the potable water supply eat up the seats and the rubber o-rings and washers.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

It's obvious you guys never had to follow behind bungalow busters in suburban Chicago. Houses on slabs would get sillcocks in a living room wall. Usually, 1/2" copper was sweat right into the sillcock. The reason being that taping and doping the male ends and spinning it into a female adapter took too much time. So once the h/o left the hose on and it froze and burst, the service plumber has no choice but to open a wall.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Every one I came across has been soldered in or had a MIP or FIP adapter on the end of it.
never seen one with a drop ear 90, though it would be nice.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

You guys would love how the idiots 30-40 years ago built everything in winter haven / lakeland.

1/2 wing el inside a hollow cinder block wall with a long galvanized nipple going to a threaded sill cock. It's a hoot when the galvo rusts out due to the insane galvanic corrosion in that situation. You now have nothing to work with outside the wall. Even if you could get an extractor in you'll just snap off the wing el.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Plantificus said:


> I usually sweat a piece of 1/2 in directly to the frost free and stick the whole thing through the wall and connect it on the other side


ditto


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Rash of hose bibs comming my way....*

we are getting into that season for them...

 I know its gonna be a bad year for them cause my own hose bib froze up in a ceiling above my daughters bed.... We Just barely caught it without flooding out her lower bedroom carpet
its gonna be a mean nasty one to change and its all a .......no-charge 

I feel its a 2 man job to deal with these little buggers
when its on a crawl space and on brick...

usually charge 200-50 bucks per hose bib...

what does everyone charge for these change outs anyway????


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## PlumberJake (Nov 15, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> we are getting into that season for them...
> 
> I know its gonna be a bad year for them cause my own hose bib froze up in a ceiling above my daughters bed.... We Just barely caught it without flooding out her lower bedroom carpet
> its gonna be a mean nasty one to change and its all a .......no-charge
> ...


That's about what I charge, depends on difficulty and access.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Protech said:


> You guys would love how the idiots 30-40 years ago built everything in winter haven / lakeland.
> 
> 1/2 wing el inside a hollow cinder block wall with a long galvanized nipple going to a threaded sill cock. It's a hoot when the galvo rusts out due to the insane galvanic corrosion in that situation. You now have nothing to work with outside the wall. Even if you could get an extractor in you'll just snap off the wing el.


That sounds like my f$&@ing nightmare!

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Mags (Mar 11, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> Right.
> 
> The only time I've ever had to go back and deal with a frost free installation is when some numb nutz HO neglected to remove the garden hose from the hose bibb -- Hello, not only does water expands when it freezes, it also chooses the path of least resistance.
> 
> ...


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## bchplumbing (Oct 24, 2009)

PlumberJake, 
Depending on the access I generally just charge a service call and parts. I have only ran into one that took me two hours to work on. That was because I needed to clean a path in the basement and cut out part of a ceiling to get to the bib.

I use my own house as a testing ground for new crap. I have a glued copper tee on my water line connecting my hose bib and a valve to shut it down in the winter. The glued tee is 10 years old. the valve is ten years old and the bib is 30 years old. No problems besides replacing o ring. 

The glued copper tee is not worth the hassle by the way. I just wanted to test it out. I couldn't help myself when I saw glue for copper. By the way the glue is a two part that you have to mix. It isn't very cost effective unless it is used by a do it yourselfer. But the you have shark bites for that.


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## bchplumbing (Oct 24, 2009)

PlumberJake, 
Depending on the access I generally just charge a service call and parts. I have only ran into one that took me two hours to work on. That was because I needed to clean a path in the basement and cut out part of a ceiling to get to the bib.

I use my own house as a testing ground for new crap. I have a glued copper tee on my water line connecting my hose bib and a valve to shut it down in the winter. The glued tee is 10 years old. the valve is ten years old and the bib is 30 years old. No problems besides replacing o ring. 

The glued copper tee is not worth the hassle by the way. I just wanted to test it out. I couldn't help myself when I saw glue for copper. By the way the glue is a two part that you have to mix. It isn't very cost effective unless it is used by a do it yourselfer. But then you have shark bites for that.


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## Duall Damage (Apr 3, 2011)

To make sure you don't have a leak, try putting some air to it and then spray some soapy water between the wall and the hose bibb, look for bubbles. Good Luck!


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

bchplumbing said:


> I use my own house as a testing ground for new crap. I have a glued copper tee on my water line connecting my hose bib and a valve to shut it down in the winter. The glued tee is 10 years old. the valve is ten years old and the bib is 30 years old. No problems besides replacing o ring.
> 
> The glued copper tee is not worth the hassle by the way. I just wanted to test it out. I couldn't help myself when I saw glue for copper. By the way the glue is a two part that you have to mix. It isn't very cost effective unless it is used by a do it yourselfer. But then you have shark bites for that.


You really used that stuff to glue copper tube? :laughing:

I used it once to clear up a handi-hacks mess...
He had broken off an old brass pipe going into a tee then tried cutting it out with a hacksaw blade but went to deep. So it was a leaker...

Going any further was going to extend the repipe through all three floors in a three family home and it was 8:30 PM on Saturday night....

Installing a new brass nipple into the damaged tee with Copper Bond "Pipe Dope" let it cure for 30 minutes and I was on my way home...:thumbup:


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> we are getting into that season for them...
> 
> I know its gonna be a bad year for them cause my own hose bib froze up in a ceiling above my daughters bed.... We Just barely caught it without flooding out her lower bedroom carpet
> its gonna be a mean nasty one to change and its all a .......no-charge
> ...


275-400 depending on length of faucet, we have to plumb 3/4 line to hosebibs here in the Northland, not sure why though 1/2 pipe is plenty


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Hopefully I'll be getting a lot of these call when people start opening up water to the bibs (hard winter) still not warm enough to leave hose or use yet here in Minnesota


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## Mega Smash (Oct 9, 2009)

I had to replace a frost free hose bibb that threaded into an FIP adapter on a run of PEX. I didn't have another set of hands, so I couldn't hold the FIP while I spun the hose bibb on.

Solution: Lock 2 pairs of vise grips onto the FIP to keep it in line with the block wall hole and to stop it from spinning while I tightened the bibb in.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

suzie said:


> Hopefully I'll be getting a lot of these call when people start opening up water to the bibs (hard winter) still not warm enough to leave hose or use yet here in Minnesota



We had an extremely mild winter this year, but it did get cold enough to freeze for 3 or 4 days just before Thanksgiving.

Now that Spring has _*finally*_ arrived, folks are out gardening, washing cars and getting their veggies in the ground. My guys have replaced three Arrowhead FF hose bibbs, the ceramic cartridges in 6 Legend FF hose bibbs and one H/C Woodford FF hose bibb just in the last two weeks.

Leaving a garden hose attached to the bibb was a mitigating factor in every single case.


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