# Pilot Light Goes Out



## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

A customer has a Rheem water heater in an attic and the pilot light goes out every two or three weeks.

I've replaced the thermocouple and the gas control valve. I've removed and inspected the supply tube for the pilot and it's as clean a a new handle screw.

The attic has gable louvers, soffitt vents, and whirlybirds. The problem usually occurs sometime overnight.

Some of you have solved this problem in the past. How did you do it?


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## tnoisaw (Jun 16, 2009)

Could be wind going down vent. I had that happen to me before.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*wind going down in the vent*

I had a Rheem do the same thing to me...

eventually to keep everyone happy I changed it out
to a Bradford white...

being in the attic their is little chance of anyone setting
gas or other falmmable things neat the heater.. 

I suggest you take out the looking glass and loosen the front of the
fire wall to the heater to keep the downdraft from blowing out the
flame and see if that dont fix the problem.


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

It's about six years old, IIRC, and it isn't sealed with the sight glass and all. The vent goes out near the roof ridge and extends a couple of feet higher than the ridge.

The vent is about a foot away from a whirlybird, but maybe a foot taller than the whirlybird. I've never really been up on a roof while one was spinning, but does it seem likely that the whirlybird could have something to do with it?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*downdrafts*

probably just wind gusts that run up the roof 
and slam down through the chimmney and put it out


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Is there a listed cap where the vent terminates above the roof? If not, install one and see if this resolves the problem.


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> Is there a listed cap where the vent terminates above the roof?


It's a standard old cap. I've seen dozens like it. Think it might be worth it to upgrade it to the latest design?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Make sure your chimney is high enough..... use the 10/2 rule.... which is the chimney has to be 2 ft higher than a 10 ft horizontal line from the roof pitch.

You may have a possible down draft going down the chimney.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Several of us think it is a down-draft problem. Also, is vertical rise high enough for vent? It has to be at least 5 ft. vertically.
Another thought, is the attic well-sealed? Maybe it's being starved for combustion air. Is it FVIR? Perhaps the air inlet is all choked-up with dust.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Have you checked the intake screen?


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

I appreciate everyone's interest in this problem. I'll repeat some of the info I supplied originally:

It's not an FVIR unit. The vent goes through the roof near the ridge and extends up about two feet higher than the ridge. The attic has gable louvers, soffitt vents, and whirlybirds.

The vent is, indeed, about five feet in total length and it goes straight up with no turns.

If the problem is wind, I'm really puzzled as to why every similar unit in town doesn't develop the same symptoms. Maybe the cap is located just where that pitch of roof sends a gust at just the right angle to cause a problem :blink:

Tomorrow I intend to tie off the adjacent whirlybird so that it doesn't spin and I'll get the brand of the vent so that I can check on a cap of different design.

Are there any votes for an intermittent gas pressure problem?


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I assume you can see the flame and it is sufficiently hitting the thermocouple...I had one where someone jerked at the tc and it was just catching the tip and goe out at times.


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## tnoisaw (Jun 16, 2009)

Just because other units in town do not have this problem does not eliminate the possibility that it is the wind. Every house varies to wind pattern and new construction also changes the wind pattern. Trees in summer full of leaves have a different wind pattern than winter trees leafless. I've run across this before which is why I mentioned it. Pilot lights are smaller than they use to be so can go out easier.

Good luck. Though challanging, these are great learning experiences.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

i have been known to make the pilot light bigger. works for me. breid...........:rockon:


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

*I VOTE TO INSTALL A EVERREADY BATTERY IN LINE WITH THE TC

THAT WAY IT WILL KEEP GOING GOING GOING :laughing: 
*


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Several of us think it is a down-draft problem. Also, is vertical rise high enough for vent? It has to be at least 5 ft. vertically.
> Another thought, is the attic well-sealed? Maybe it's being starved for combustion air. Is it FVIR? Perhaps the air inlet is all choked-up with dust.


 
that was the first thing that came to mind:detective:


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

Update: the homeowner was out of town for a while, and now I am; so no fix for a possible downdraft problem has been tried yet. But, as always, things have been fine for a couple of weeks since he last re-lit the pilot.

I've wondered if there might be a mouse with anger management problems up there who knows how to operate the gas valve.


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## lighthot (Mar 6, 2011)

---light goes out every two or three weeks---is the key word!!!!!


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

lighthot said:


> ---light goes out every two or three weeks---is the key word!!!!!


 
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The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## PrecisionPlumb (Feb 17, 2011)

Try installing a drip leg


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*Desperate measures*

I most always remove burner and blow compressed air down through ceramic grid. One time after doing everything I knew I busted a hole through it. Seemed to take care of it. That was on a AO Smith though.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

mpsllc said:


> I most always remove burner and blow compressed air down through ceramic grid. One time after doing everything I knew I busted a hole through it. Seemed to take care of it. That was on a AO Smith though.


Does that modification create liability in the event of kaboom?


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Busting a hole in ceramic would surely have to. I try to do bout a quater size, not the whole thing. But theres nothing under there and also has a metal bottom on floor and the plastic grid that filters the bigger stuff. It just makes a grilled opening a bigger one. As mentioned, it's more a desperate measure. I've even tried removing the glass, it actually worked on mine here at home. avoid it like the plague if at all possible.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

AO Smith does seem to have a larger problem with this than the other brands.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Yeah they are notorious.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> Busting a hole in ceramic would surely have to. I try to do bout a quater size, not the whole thing. But theres nothing under there and also has a metal bottom on floor and the plastic grid that filters the bigger stuff. It just makes a grilled opening a bigger one. As mentioned, it's more a desperate measure. I've even tried removing the glass, it actually worked on mine here at home. avoid it like the plague if at all possible.


making any size hole in the flame arrestor will render it non functional for it's designed purpose.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Ao Smith sells a kit to attach to a shop vac to suck out the bottom of their fvir's.

I complained loud enough that they gave me two kits.

The op did say its a non fvir though.......


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Colgar said:


> Ao Smith sells a kit to attach to a shop vac to suck out the bottom of their fvir's.
> 
> I complained loud enough that they gave me two kits.
> 
> The op did say its a non fvir though.......


Not to go off topic, but how does one go about getting one of those attachments from AO smith?

I don't care if I have to buy it, just a matter of time till I need one.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

pauliplumber said:


> Not to go off topic, but how does one go about getting one of those attachments from AO smith?
> 
> I don't care if I have to buy it, just a matter of time till I need one.



I got three kits for free from my AO Smith supplier. Check with your supplier.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

pauliplumber said:


> Not to go off topic, but how does one go about getting one of those attachments from AO smith?
> 
> I don't care if I have to buy it, just a matter of time till I need one.


Part no 9007169005

I got a couple extra in the shop with access to more. If you can't find it, give me a shout, I'll send you a couple.


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## klempner (Mar 4, 2011)

Are you sure vent is drawing properly? Is there a lot of the flaky material accumulating? I don't see any way it could be whirlybird. I would say wind, but since it's routinely every two to three weeks, sounds like bad TC or control valve again. Usually, putting a new one in rules it out, but not necessarily.


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

The final state of affairs on this job was that I went around and removed the louvers from the soffitt vents, pushed away the blanket insulation wherever needed, and reinstalled the louvers. I ceased hearing back from the customer. I emailed him a few weeks afterward and asked if the problem was resolved and he replied in few words that it was. I couldn't tell if my last measure had worked, or if he was just tired of messing with me and had gotten someone to replace the whole water heater.

As a rule, I stick with a customer's problem until, like Casey Jones, I die with my hand on the throttle. It has stood me in good stead through the years and customers beat a path to my door. But I can see why there might be some who get disgusted and run the other way.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I had a little ceazars with a gas heater in the attic which I recommended against...had problems after a couple years...changed the gas valve etc...worked for a while good, then acted up... I thought it was choking out of O2 so I brought in make up air....still acted up....just changed to electric because I said I was tired of lighting it....they did have a make up air issue though...doors wheezed when opened and the make up air pipe on the roof felt some suction....this was probably something to do with it...
They arent all classic FAQ situations.


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