# Frozen Sewers



## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

I just got a call from the owner who just finished up with a cust. who says her sewer freezes up every year and wanted us to jet it as a prevent.

"So have you been there...drippy faucet?Leaky toilet? Is it plugged now?"

No.

"And why will we waste this woman's money if it's not backed up?" 

She wants it done.

"How about preventive salt in the utility sink (h2o softner pellets in a sock I'm thinking) so when the softner recharges it spews through extra salt..."

I wanna help but wish to save a customer an unneeded trip if the line is good.
Whadda you Yankees think?
I know all you Chicago folks have had a go like this.

My only thought is to camera the line and just verify what is,or not there
just to set her mind at ease. ($190 for your peace.)


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## plumber p (Sep 19, 2010)

Check to see if there is proper pitch on all the pipe. Heat trace the pipe. Insulate the pipe. Put a heat lamp near the pipe that normally freezes. A regular light will also give you enough heat. There are many options.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Is there a code mandating the depth of sewers in Minnesota?


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

Right now our frost depth is at or past 24" and *most* sewers start at an invert of around 7 feet below grade.


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

plumber p said:


> Check to see if there is proper pitch on all the pipe. Heat trace the pipe. Insulate the pipe. Put a heat lamp near the pipe that normally freezes. A regular light will also give you enough heat. There are many options.


This is all outside of the house DEEP under the soil. Options are less!


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## Nayman's Drain (Dec 17, 2010)

"My only thought is to camera the line and just verify what is,or not there
just to set her mind at ease. ($190 for your peace.)"

I would opt for video rather than jetting.
If this woman's DWV freezes every winter, there has to be a reason.

As a Professional Drain/Sewer tech, I make it my business to figure out why, and take a pro-active approach, rather than the re-active one.
Preventing a freeze-up will save this lady some serious coin in the future, which is what this should be all about.
Maybe I am out to lunch, but I educate my clients about their DWV system.Knowledge is power, and the more my clients know, the better they can help me figure out their problems. It saves me time, and them money.
Not only that, but they tend to pass my name around to their friends a lot more than the guy who just hands them the bill & splits.
Just my .02 worth


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

You gotta know whats wrong with it before you fix it, or apply preventative maintenance. 

Howza bout y'all jet it, and it freezes up next week?


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

Tricky one this but I would first look for running services, toilet etc, then would cctv line prior to frost to see if there is a belly in line, then if possible cctv upstream to frozen blockage to pinpoint location and look back to original cctv to see if that point has an issue,
Other than that you could do lots if things that 'might' work, jetting prior to frost wouldn't benefit in my opinion. 
Good luck


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

Nice job all.I'm on the right track them I'm sure.
Camera then all will become clear as to what is going on,
then a proper cure can be considered.
Has anyone ever done the salt pellet thing?


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

I think you would need a lot of salt.


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## Kevan (Jul 5, 2010)

This sounds to me like a classic instance of "I took a shower and, when I stepped out, I saw that it had come up in my sink." In other words, the customer is clueless about what's really going on.

I've never cleaned a sewer anywhere but the Memphis area, but I'm pretty sure that this lady's sewer does not freeze. If it did, then so would thousands of other sewers in her area.

I'd tell her exactly that and I'd jet the line for maintenance if she still asked for it. I'd also explain that there's no warranty against freezing.


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

Kevan said:


> This sounds to me like a classic instance of "I took a shower and, when I stepped out, I saw that it had come up in my sink." In other words, the customer is clueless about what's really going on.
> 
> I've never cleaned a sewer anywhere but the Memphis area, but I'm pretty sure that this lady's sewer does not freeze. If it did, then so would thousands of other sewers in her area.
> 
> I'd tell her exactly that and I'd jet the line for maintenance if she still asked for it. I'd also explain that there's no warranty against freezing.


This sewer may only be 12" below ground.


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

frozen and clogged 4" drainline on flat roof of a bank 2 weeks ago.
Not alot of white stuff but enough.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I would say look for dripping/leaking fixtures or, a belly in the line.
Those are the causes of sewer line freeze ups and depth has nothing to do with it unless one of those 2 causes exists.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Do you just drill out ports in those fittings.


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> Do you just drill out ports in those fittings.


yes you simply drill out the 2" parts of the fitting and fit waste pipe into it


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Is it PVC or UPVC?


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

slickrick said:


> Is it PVC or UPVC?


UPVC but we call it PVCu


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ianclapham said:


> UPVC but we call it PVCu


I worked with it for awhile. I like the light weight, just squirt some soapy water on it, and it goes right together. Plumbers here would frown on its use.


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

slickrick said:


> I worked with it for awhile. I like the light weight, just squirt some soapy water on it, and it goes right together. Plumbers here would frown on its use.


do you guys use hdpe then?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

ianclapham said:


> do you guys use hdpe then?


That would mostly be used for pipe bursting here.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ianclapham said:


> do you guys use hdpe then?


A lot of areas allow SDR 35 for outside bldg. sewers. Inside will be SCH 40 DWV PVC when plastic is used.


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

slickrick said:


> A lot of areas allow SDR 35 for outside bldg. sewers. Inside will be SCH 40 DWV PVC when plastic is used.


is the SDR 35 PVC?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ianclapham said:


> is the SDR 35 PVC?


Yes, SDR 35 is PVC. The wall thickness seem to about the same as your PVCu. My experience is that the PVCu does not deflect as much as SDR 35 PVC when used underground.


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

slickrick said:


> Yes, SDR 35 is PVC. The wall thickness seem to about the same as your PVCu. My experience is that the PVCu does not deflect as much as SDR 35 PVC when used underground.


what do you use as backfill for the pipe laying? gravel/sand?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ianclapham said:


> what do you use as backfill for the pipe laying? gravel/sand?


In my area, if the existing soil is considered "Select", we use it. Gravel and sand are both approved also.

Does the pipe in this picture appear to be the same as you use?


http://i34.tinypic.com/ka381e.jpg


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## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

slickrick said:


> In my area, if the existing soil is considered "Select", we use it. Gravel and sand are both approved also.
> 
> Does the pipe in this picture appear to be the same as you use?
> 
> ...


Yes that looks the same as ours, 









is that 4" into 6" ringseal?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ianclapham said:


> Yes that looks the same as ours,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, 110mm into 140mm if I remember correctly.


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

Correct answer for this woman....
Low spot about 70' on a 120' line.
Her low spot is under the street.
Was good to go as of when the camera inspection was done.
Low spot was just a small dip in the line.Camera slightly went under.
Other history suggests that she had a leaky toilet in the past too.
So there ya go!


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