# Geo thermal hot water



## jtink (Apr 23, 2012)

call starts off customer is getting hot water on cold side of the faucets went out on I put a 3/4" check valve after geo loop ties in to correct, told them after looking in the manual this is piped wrong I suggest we re-configure your piping on the water heater and geo loop. They wanted to wait.

Fast forward a month call back and when they shower in the master the water isn't consitent hot it goes warm, unless they turn on the other shower faucet in the same shower stall, ( both are Moen 1222) ( doesn't matter if they turn second shower to hot or cold to stabilize there shower temp) we piped as per instructions. We left due to 80 gallon electric water heater and hot water generater take awhile to heat up. 

Fun fact, day before we repiped the system we closed inlet and outlet of geo loop and disconnected pump and generater. ( so they would be using just a 80 gallon electric water heater for hot water, nothing else and that didn't work they said they had no hot water, I checked both elements and temp setting on thermostat) to me this made no sense. My first thought was there was no dip tube and cold water was being sucked out the hot side but not the case dip tube was intact. 

There out of town but the mother in law called me today and doesn't think the change in piping we did made no difference, meaning you still need to turn on second shower faucet to get adaquide hot water, we also rebuild Moen shower faucet thinking possible pressure balancer failed but still a no. 

My suggestion is to eliminate this system and install a gas fired tankless water heater, my fear is will that fix it. If we had the geo loop turned off and system was functioning as a standard electric water heater and that didn't work.

House is about 6-8 years old. 
Any thoughts

If anyone cares or if it matters I can try and explan how they had piped and how we changed it. 
They had cold water inlet tie into cold side of water heater and outlet side of geo loop on cold side. Inlet side of geo loop came off bottom with boiler drain. Hot went out to hot water side of house. 
We changed it so outlet side of loop went to inlet (cold) side of water heater and cold water inlet went to bottom of tank next to boiler drain and next to inlet side of loop. Hot water side untouched.


----------



## tim666 (Mar 11, 2014)

The second shower doesn't have a way to shut off the shower head other than the actual shower valve does it?


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Moen Faucets with a bad cartridge can crossover...


----------



## jtink (Apr 23, 2012)

tim666 said:


> The second shower doesn't have a way to shut off the shower head other than the actual shower valve does it?


Nope. I could cap it off


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

jtink said:


> Nope. I could cap it off


Replace the cartridge...:yes:

Blocking the shower arm would guarantee a crossover..


----------



## jtink (Apr 23, 2012)

Redwood said:


> Moen Faucets with a bad cartridge can crossover...


I thought that also so we rebuilt one of them but I guess we could rebuild the other, should we rebuild all shower faucets?


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

jtink said:


> I thought that also so we rebuilt one of them but I guess we could rebuild the other, should we rebuild all shower faucets?


Usually if you find a turned of Moen that makes a difference on the others when it is changed from hot to cold or vice versa that would be the bad one. Truth be told it probably takes less time to change them all out and wouldn't they all usually be about the same age and wear?


----------



## jtink (Apr 23, 2012)

Shower faucet repair doesn't explain why they had cold water when I turned off the geo loop, and rely on 80 gallon electric water heater for hot water needs. 

I still think there is an under lying problem. They have natural gas in there house and I menstioned removing this system and installing a tankless water heater. My concern is will it work, my hesitation is the electric water heater didn't.


----------



## Nealfromjpt (Oct 10, 2012)

sounds like you have a hot/cold cross connection , most likely in a shower fct. like Red said. is there any isolation valves on the individual showers?


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Moen, Mixit, and the Delta R-1000 Universal mixing valves without a cartridge installed, are probably the leading causes of crossover I see...


----------



## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

don't over think it. replace the cartridges 1st, I hate to be a parts replacer without proper diagnosing but sometimes the common problem is the common problem. just do it and consider it the 1st step in your diagnosis. well of coares check the hot and cold in the garage with a y connection 1st:laughing:. 

If that doesn't fix it I bet it's a bad check valve on the hot water return line


----------



## paultheplumber1 (May 1, 2014)

Is the hot water outlet on the heater hot when the shower is on? That will eliminate the system being an issue right there .


----------



## panther (Oct 27, 2010)

Had a similar issue on and apartment complex a couple of years back. Turned out to be a bad shower valve in one of the units. I'm with the rest of the guys on this one. Check the cartridges first.


----------



## jtink (Apr 23, 2012)

Switched out all 5 shower cartridges and that helped a little. We tried to close every shut off valve on every fixture, but almost all of them were frozen and that surprised me due to the house is only six years old. 

Anyway it was getting late and I made a few suggestions on how we could isolated this down by installing ball valves on different water feeds that go up through the floor. Told her I got the temp up high enough to give warm showers and we would return to further isolate/diagnose and I was sitting at home running everything through my head and it hit me. About 7-8 years ago the state of ohio made us put tempering valves on whirlpool tubs. The tempering valve failed. Didn't think of it due to its not visible. Out of sight out of mind. 
It was like a light bulb exploded over my head. 
Plus side is all the showers are rebuilt and all needed it, 

Thanks all. 
Sometimes it's helpful to bounce ideas off someone and they might help or at least get your mind working.


----------

