# Any one install these thing



## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Opinions

http://www.cashacme.com/prod_thermostatics_WHTC_kit.php


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Installed the Bradford White 25 gallon water heater that comes with it. The mixing valve, higher stored temperature, and 80K btu, this heater out preformed two standard 50 gallon units.

http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/115-B.pdf


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

SewerRatz said:


> Installed the Bradford White 25 gallon water heater that comes with it. The mixing valve, higher stored temperature, and 80K btu, this heater out preformed two standard 50 gallon units.
> 
> http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/115-B.pdf


Question?

The pic you showed, is the water heater 25 gallons, or is the device on top of the water heater the gadget to make it out produce two 50 gallon water heaters?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I installed the 55 gal version of the Bradford White water heater Ratz posted about a few weeks ago. Awesome water heater. Home owner wanted a tankless, I recomend the Residential Atmospheric Vent High Preformance Engergy Saver Gas Water Heater. Cheaper to install than the tankless, and much more reliable, with a crazy amlunt of hot water deliverly. Had different mixing valve than the cash acme, I'm thinking it was Honeywell? Was a Nice feature.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Will

are you using Locke Supply for your water heaters.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Yes. I use Lockes 100%, they have been very good to me.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Will said:


> Yes. I use Lockes 100%, they have been very good to me.


Same here


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I like Bradford's better... No shark bites.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

The only issues I have had with Bradford White is the T&P leaks from time to time. You can't re tap the threads on the tank as they are too lose allready to begin with.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

How's this mixing static valve work exactly ??


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Allows you to store extremely hot water in the tank, then mix it with cold to get the tempurature to a lower tempurature, giving the effect of a larger tank. 

Also the mixing valve with the Bradford White allows you to pipe unmixed water to the dishwasher, washing machine if you want, and also gives you a port for recirluating pumps. It's a very cool water heater. There are also ports(capped from factory) that allow hook ups to heating like radiant.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

Question about the Bradford white....so what it's saying is a 55 gal heater set at 140 gives you 200 gal of 120 degree water?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Question about the Bradford white....so what it's saying is a 55 gal heater set at 140 gives you 200 gal of 120 degree water?


BWC 50 gal NG - Standard
40K BTU
89 gallons first hour at 90deg rise
42 gallons per additional hour at 90deg rise


BWC 25 gal NG - High Performance
75K BTU
155 gallons first hour at 90deg rise
84 gallons per additional hour at 90deg rise

The only real difference is the higher temp in the tank being mixed down and the bigger fire for faster heating. Of the two factors, operating at the higher temperature with a mixing valve is the real difference maker.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Question about the Bradford white....so what it's saying is a 55 gal heater set at 140 gives you 200 gal of 120 degree water?


 

It's based off perfect situations and a time frame. Of course incoming water temp will very the output.


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

How much do these cost? 50 gal. I think I'm paying around 390 for a standard AO gas. Curious as to what you are paying for the Bradford 50


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

They cost us about 50 bucks more


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

A 55 gal Nat Gas Residential Atmosphereic Vent High Performance Engergy Saver Gas Water Heater will cost you around $1000.00+. 80,000 BTU


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Sounds like it's basically a small commercial heater with a mixing valve. 

Running at higher temp means more minerals cook out of the water and more tank stress...what's the warranty?


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Sounds like it's basically a small commercial heater with a mixing valve.
> 
> Running at higher temp means more minerals cook out of the water and more tank stress...what's the warranty?


 
6 years. Has two anodes. With the mineral build up, tankless has the same issues, and if someone is going to pay the extra money to get the high revory, they probably are not going to mind paying a service call once a year or so to flush it out.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

What about the cost for the nat gas It having higher btu


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> What about the cost for the nat gas It having higher btu


 

Not getting your question


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

I think TX is asking about it's efficiency rating.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not sure on that. I should have looked at what the estimated cost per year is with them. I've only installed one so far(55 gal nat gas), but I was impressed. I'll diffently try to push them more. All tthat is realy needed to install them is to upside the vent to 4". I like that they don't have a sealed coombustion chamber or fancey control valve. Alot more reliable and easy to work on.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> What about the cost for the nat gas It having higher btu


In the grand scheme of things there may not be but a few pennies difference based on the efficiency of storing 50 gallons of hot water as opposed to storing 25 gallons of hot water.

As far as cost for higher BTU's goes, the water has to be heated to a certain usable level. If you heat it slowly with low BTU's or heat it quickly with high BTU's may not matter. 

The difference will be in the amount of available water at a 90 degree rise within a given time frame, not so much what it costs to get it there. Even if there is a noticeable difference in the heating cost, it will not be a big issue to a person willing to pay the higher price of the High Performance water heater.

Maybe a plumber that minored in Physics could weigh in on it.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

The tankless are high efficiency heaters...most between 92% - 98%. This means that 92% - 98% of the fuel burned/heat generated goes into used water.

Most tank heaters are in the neighborhood of 40% efficient. They send lots of heat up and out the flue and lose heat through the tank jacket.

Efficiency used to be a strong selling point of the tankless, but with natural gas prices at all time lows people don't care as much..."Gas is cheap, why not burn more?"


The industry is just responding to that reality. 


You can bet that with a 4" double-wall metal flue these units are not about efficiency :no:


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

the high recovery by bradford white is 82%


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Thanks.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

I use to set only Bradford tanks. I changed brands. Bradfords problems you couldn't give me one now.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Plumberman911 said:


> I use to set only Bradford tanks. I changed brands. Bradfords problems you couldn't give me one now.


 
Cure to explain? Other than the T&P issue, the ones I've put in have been problem free.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Well, some times when your way away from supply houses with Bradford. When your tightening the supply nuts on to the nipples it almost gets tight then pops loose like bad threads or stripped threads. then you have to pull off the plastic backflow piece to make them tighten. 
Second, with the new smart gas valve, I have gone on so many warranty calls and even new installs myself were the gas valve malfunctions and nothing works. Bradford says it is not the gas valve but the wire connections inside. Well Bradford sorry but to fix that you have to replace the gas valve.
That's my issue with them, Before that I set them for 15+ yrs


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Try the Stainless Steel connectors and see if that helps. I used to get my connectors from Wolverine Brass and they would do that "pop" your talking about too. The SS connectors at lockes seem to work better.

Now with the thermopiles, I agree they are a PITA to replace. Guess your using Rheem?


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Will said:


> Try the Stainless Steel connectors and see if that helps. I used to get my connectors from Wolverine Brass and they would do that "pop" your talking about too. The SS connectors at lockes seem to work better.
> 
> Now with the thermopiles, I agree they are a PITA to replace. Guess your using Rheem?


 LOL, yes I switched to Rheem. I put one in my house and installed several T&P already installed. So far I really like them.
I will remember the SS connector thing just incase. Its weird Lockes is out of HWT. Within a 2 hr radius


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I heard Sandy shut done production, not sure if that is true or not. Do the Rheems not use the Honeywell control valves?


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Those high efficiency Bradfords are pretty cool, I think I'll try to put one in.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

I want to say unitrol but I'd have to look. I am setting one in the morning. It is not a smart valve but looks different than the old style. on Rheem


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Will said:


> I heard Sandy shut done production, not sure if that is true or not. Do the Rheems not use the Honeywell control valves?


most of the rheem stuff i do is power vent but its usually robert shaw valves on them.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Are they outlined in blue plastic?


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

i have also seen white rogers valves.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

http://bostonheatingsupply.com/sp20162a.aspx
http://bostonheatingsupply.com/rheemsp13845agascontrolthermostatnatgas-1.aspx 

typically one of these 2 but like i said almost all the rheem water heaters i deal with are powervent


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

I forgot I put a Rheem in my house. It is a White Rodgers valve, funny thing is I installed it 3 months ago and they've changed valves already. But so far still no call backs


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

Plumberman911 said:


> I forgot I put a Rheem in my house. It is a White Rodgers valve, funny thing is I installed it 3 months ago and they've changed valves already. But so far still no call backs


i really dont understand the way they do their valves. maybe one is for natural and one is propane ? i do believe it is a honeywell on a standard vent.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

May be. Seems like the manufactures have been playing with tanks for couple of years. You finally get a good product you can trust and something changes


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

i have been using rheem since i started pretty much. i have seen quite a few changes with them.


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

They changed the color again to. I really liked the black it was sharp. Now their grey 
But I like them. I use to set some Premier but that supplier shut down. I liked them because when everyone else took the feet off their tanks Premier kept them.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

i thought only the electric ones went to black ? it was actually a very dark navy blue. i suppose white with blue top and bottom wasnt cutting it anymore


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

They may of changed it. first two gas I set where dark blue. But now are a light grey. Haven't done an electric it may be the dark now.


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## dclarke (Dec 22, 2012)

i did one black electric. never a gas. i have done grey gas. o well.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

TallCoolOne said:


> Question?
> 
> The pic you showed, is the water heater 25 gallons, or is the device on top of the water heater the gadget to make it out produce two 50 gallon water heaters?


They have two models, the 25 gallon model gives you 155 gallons first hour delivery with an 84 gallon per hour recovery @ 90℉ temp rise. at 78,000 btu which out performs two 50 gallon heaters hooked together.

The other heater is a 55 gallon storage that gives 200 gallons of hot water in the first hour delivery with an 86 gallon per hour recovery @ 90℉ temp rise. at 80,000 btu.

Being that the gas demand is a lot less than a tankless heater it still can be piped in 1/2" but check to make sure the branch suppling the gas is not already maxed out. The venting in most cases does need to be upgraded to 4" as for heat loss the heater runs for a much shorter time to heat the 25 gallons to its set temp verses a standard 50 gallon since the stored water is half and the burner flame is doubled. And a FYI the 25 gallon slimmly out performs a 75 gallon heater which is the same btus and has a 4" vent.

They do make a power vent model that costs nearly as much as the 75 gallon power vent unit and performs pretty much the same. I have a customer that is waiting for their 75 gallon State heater to leak to install the 55 gallon PV unit.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Sorry for the delay on a reply. With my brother in the hospital I have jot been at my desktop much. And the PZ app still shows all threads as read even though I have not read any of them.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

It's 55 galleon, not 50.


I'm curious about the Bradford White issues on there standard tank type water heaters. _If mods want to expand this into a new thread, please do_. Anyone else having issues with Bradford White gas water heaters? I've had pretty good luck with them. The Ion valves have been out for about what two years? I've yet to go back on a warranty call *knock on wood* other than one I installed in early 2010 that had a leaking T&P.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Thinks ^^^ that guy just jinxed himself


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

I set a Rheem 50 gal gas today. It had a Delta gas valve. Which I don't remember seeing a Delta Gas valve


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

WHile this would be great for solar applications it has some drawbacks on fossil fuel source heaters.

1. Storing hotter water in the tank will drastically reduce tank life span.

2. Storing hotter water consumes more energy from standby losses on all heaters an results in less heat transfer in fired heaters.

Great for solar, but that's about it.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Back on topic please.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

No I've never installed one of those!!


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Yes I have installed one. 

Can we get back to the Oklahoma Texas arguments and football now?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Will said:


> Yes I have installed one.
> 
> Can we get back to the Oklahoma Texas arguments and football now?


http://www.plumbingzone.com/f13/oklahoma-texas-rivalry-thread-23196/


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> No I've never installed one of those!!


Me either :no:


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## woberkrom (Nov 19, 2010)

Not sure if this was posted.

http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/115-B.pdf


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## woberkrom (Nov 19, 2010)

The spec sheet says the following:

"Meet or exceed ASHRAE 90.1b (current standard) C.E.C. Listed
82% Thermal Efﬁciency"

That's nice...

How are they achieving that efficiency on a gravity vent?

I always thought they needed a fan for stuff around that efficiency as there wasn't enough heat in the byproducts to naturally rise up the chimney.

I could be totally off on that though.


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## plumberpro (Jan 1, 2013)

Ya Bradford's are all we install here in Milwaukee haven't had any gas valve problems only a inca in awhile relief valve but then those are made by a anothere co usually cash acme. As for the connector we use brass pro press fittings they work great

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

woberkrom said:


> The spec sheet says the following:
> 
> "Meet or exceed ASHRAE 90.1b (current standard) C.E.C. Listed
> 82% Thermal Efﬁciency"
> ...



You are correct...at 82% they'd need a fan :yes:

I'm guessing that 82% _thermal_ efficiency isn't the same as 82% efficiency 

Probably the units have a good jacket insulation and that, coupled with the smaller tank, allows them to play with words


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## Piper34 (Oct 10, 2011)

Never seen one looks like great idea I have used mixing valve in past with high tank temp to increase volume out of a 40,50 gallon tank to fill whirlpools ect ect


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