# Top 10 Code Infractions



## plumber666 (Sep 19, 2010)

Was talking to a green as grass plumbing inspector today, and he's nervous as hell. Says he's never installed a pipe in his life, but he's from a small community where building inspectors do plumbing, too. Just wrote his exam for Inspector 1. He's not sure what to look for, and I told him I bet 90% of failed plumbing inspections are from the same 10 infractions. Now he's on me to come up with a list of the top 10 plumbing infractions.
Any ideas?
Trap arm length?
(In Canada) One 3" vent from underground to roof.
Fixture outlet length?
Just trying to help a dumb ass inspector to not be a pain in the ass in the future.


----------



## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

plumber666 said:


> Was talking to a green as grass plumbing inspector today, and he's nervous as hell. Says he's never installed a pipe in his life, but he's from a small community where building inspectors do plumbing, too. Just wrote his exam for Inspector 1. He's not sure what to look for, and I told him I bet 90% of failed plumbing inspections are from the same 10 infractions. Now he's on me to come up with a list of the top 10 plumbing infractions.
> Any ideas?
> Trap arm length?
> (In Canada) One 3" vent from underground to roof.
> ...


Top 10 from hacks or licensed plumbers


----------



## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

- Pipe not supported at proper length
- No mixing valve on the HWT
- Missing/improper C/O placement
- Wrong material*


*Acutally I have a funny story. Here in Canada we can use a thermoplastic pipe called XFR-PVC in "Non-Combustible"/high rise buildings and return air plenum. The pipe and fittings are about 4 times the price of Sys 15 PVC. VERY Expensive. 

An inspector told me this story. The "plumber" at a job originally asked, "what kind of fittings" he could use in the return air plenum and the inspector replied, "Cast iron, copper or, if you would like, XFR-PVC". 

When the inspector came back for the inspection, he saw the XFR-PVC fittings, but all the pipe was Sys 15 PVC. Needless to say, the "Plumber" was a little pissed about all the money he wasted! :laughing:

Ooohhh good times....


----------



## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

I'd go with
1. T&P relief piped to high off of the floor or not at all
2. Improperly piped softener drains, no air gap or relief tee
3. Back pitched ff sillcocks:furious: Always over a finished ceiling
4. Nail plates
5. Lack of appropriate hangers, spacing, materials,etc
6. K.S./D.W./disposal setups that are creative to say the least
7. Unsecured shower and tub valves, but mainly showers
8. Lack of solid backing behind pedestal lavs, heck yeah a couple of plastic anchors in the sheetrock will keep that on the wall
9. No backflow preventer on handhelds in showers and tubs
10. No shutoffs on sillcocks
These are just the main things I run across doing service that really burn my hide especially on houses that are less than 5 years old. A couple of times I've strongly considered calling the inspector who signed off to ask what the f&@k he was looking at.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Even if he had a list he would need to know what he is looking at. I have a inspector like that. He calls me when he has a question. I even have my own green tags in case he is out of town and I need a inspection.


----------



## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

bartnc37 said:


> I'd go with
> 1. T&P relief piped to high off of the floor or not at all
> 2. Improperly piped softener drains, no air gap or relief tee
> 3. Back pitched ff sillcocks:furious: Always over a finished ceiling
> ...


The subdivisions here in the 70's and 80's used to only used silicone for the backing! Only untill a kid from Oshawa pulled the sink onto himself and got hurt. ONLY THEN! Did the inspectors ask for toggle bolts. 

Oh I got one more. Water pipes on exterior walls without the proper R-Vale insulation.


----------



## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

not being 5' from the base of a stack


----------



## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

I think the list should be, Top ten people he could be related to, in order to get an inspector job. I would be a little livid if the guy that passes or fails my job, has the same job qualifications as my neighbor the dog groomer.


----------



## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm with LEAD !! Don't come on my profession and try to correct me .

Why don't ya just read a book then ,,,,, scrub in for surgery ?


----------



## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Cal said:


> I'm with LEAD !! Don't come on my profession and try to correct me .
> 
> Why don't ya just read a book then ,,,,, scrub in for surgery ?


Ya, I agree. There's SO, SO, SO many more things to know and watch for than only 10. And only experience will teach you all of them, and all the myriad variations and ways to do things. With no practical experience he's going to be completely lost. He's just going to have to learn as he goes. He'll probably piss off a lot of plumbers before he gets even semi-competent, if he even lasts that long.

Over the years I've had to deal with regional-district inspectors like this a few times. Mostly they know nothing, but some have learned a few (sometimes completely crazy) things that they like to demand. If you get along with them you can sometimes teach them a thing or two and make the next guy's job go a bit easier.


----------



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

markb said:


> The subdivisions here in the 70's and 80's used to only used silicone for the backing! Only untill a kid from Oshawa pulled the sink onto himself and got hurt. *ONLY THEN! Did the inspectors ask for toggle bolts. *
> 
> Oh I got one more. Water pipes on exterior walls without the proper R-Vale insulation.


Like Toggle bolts are the solution? :laughing::laughing::blink:


----------



## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Piperat said:


> Like Toggle bolts are the solution? :laughing::laughing::blink:


Apparently they were enough of an improvement for the inspector lol


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

When I was a young apprentice, I looked up to the plumbing inspector with awe. Now that I am a master plumber, I look at the inspector a little different. :whistling2: Whereas they used to seem like all-knowing gurus of my trade, now I sometimes feel sorry for them; they seem more like little lost sheep. It is truly shocking that to land a job as a plumbing inspector, one does not even have to have a stitch of plumbing experience. Shocking!:blink:


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I just started the Plumbing Inspector ISC class a few weeks ago. 

There are about 10 guys in it. 

Anyone with an equivalent level inspectors license in another class can take the class and test. (open book)

5 are plumbers, the rest are building inspectors. A couple have zero experience in plumbing. I have no idea how they could ever expect to inspect a plumbing job. The course consists of reading from the code book, cover to cover, some make believe plan review, and some sizing. 

On the flip side, maybe next year I'll be an electrical inspector:whistling2::no:


----------



## LEAD INGOT (Jul 15, 2009)

Let's look at it this way. The green as grass inspector sets out on his first day, with clip board in hand. His first inspection is a water heater install. He looks the job over, and thinks everything " looks" good, so he puts a big ok sticker on it. But what he misses the 3/4" plug that an inept plumber put in the t&p because it was defective from the factory. 3 months later the stats have a simultanious failure and it heats up until it goes through the roof like a Saturn 5 rocket, killing the family dog, and winds up landing on a pack of girl scouts that are just out selling cookies. Two parties are to blame. The idiot who put the plug in, and the idiot who passed it because he didn't know any better. This entire scenario is far fetched but stranger things have happened. I just can't believe that administrative authorities would put themselves into an actionable position like that. Hope the city atty: is a good one.:thumbsup:


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't remember exactly how much time or what type of experience, but I was recently told that Oklahoma City inspectors are required to have actual plumbing experience. I know the most recent additions to the inspectors in OKC were plumbing contractors with their own businesses.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*water heater pans,,,*

we have a *three story condo project* in town that was 
finished just back in 08.....by a big plumbing company in town......

a 3 inch main copper line branching off down to 2 without any ball valves anywyere to isolate anything.. you have to shut the whole place down to fix any branch issues.....


worse yet..
the plumber installed gas water heaters in each unit 
WITHOUT installing WATER HEATER PANS. for all three floors.!!!

so where do that water go when they go bad?????.

I think that is something that should be mandatory
and how this dumbass got away without doing this is 
beyond me.....


----------



## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> we have a *three story condo project* in town that was
> finished just back in 08.....by a big plumbing company in town......
> 
> a 3 inch main copper line branching off down to 2 without any ball valves anywyere to isolate anything.. you have to shut the whole place down to fix any branch issues.....
> ...


In a thing like that they probably did a deal with the city where the developers hire their own engineers who do their own inspections and sign off on it, leaving the city in the clear for liability. 

In the City of Richmond, across the south arm of the Fraser River from me there are two 18 story high rise apartments. They did the engineer thing. I did a little work on the 11th floor one time. There are no per-floor valves, no per-suite valves - nothing! Just a main water valve at the PRV station at the bottom and HWT valves at the top.

If you go there to work on the first floor you start at the crack of dawn, shut it all down and start draining. By afternoon you can probably start work, but it'll still be dribbling out. :laughing: Insane stupidity just to save a relatively small amount of money on valves!

My job nearer the top drained relatively quickly and I got out of there in reasonable time. I will never, ever work on those buildings again though. Working there scared the hell out of me. Way too dangerous! Anything lets go and there's going to be a TON of damage. And since you were there last the finger will get pointed at you even if it's not your fault. You touched it last.


----------



## 3/4 MIP (Dec 1, 2009)

*Infractions*

-Stud Guards
-Hangers properly spaced
-More than 2 WC on a 3" horizontal drain. 
This one bit us on a remodel. Put a bathroom in a basement and tied into the existing ejector. I actually posted pics last year on here. Well, that 3" already had a powder room and master on it.

Shannon


----------



## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

stud and joist notching, stud guards , no hose bib vacuum breakers.nail plates. water to hot, for commercial toilet handle on close side.


----------



## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

3/4 MIP said:


> -Stud Guards
> -Hangers properly spaced
> -More than 2 WC on a 3" horizontal drain.
> This one bit us on a remodel. Put a bathroom in a basement and tied into the existing ejector. I actually posted pics last year on here. Well, that 3" already had a powder room and master on it.
> ...


 My code book UPC says I can put 3 WC on a horizontal drain.


----------



## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

that is the biggest reason i dont post pics. some will be critical of you when you are well within code for your area. ipc and upc very different, then every city's amendments.


----------



## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ranman said:


> that is the biggest reason i dont post pics. some will be critical of you when you are well within code for your area. ipc and upc very different, then every city's amendments.


Their a bunch of animals.... I don't know how they sleep at night.


----------



## mssp (Dec 15, 2009)

How many WC can you put on a 3" horizontal in the IRC code?


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Their a bunch of animals.... I don't know how they sleep at night.


:laughing:


----------



## mongo (Jun 26, 2010)

*My pick*

1. Clearances for fixtures (sides and front).
2. Distance from trap to vent.
3. Boring and notching structures.
4. Hanger distances.
5. Water heater location.
6. Access to valves, WHA's, cleanouts (any maintenence item).
7. Trap primers (or lack thereof).
8. Poor workmanship.
9. Dumb people (as in, "....if you increase the water supply line it will increase the pressure").:blink:
10. Poor design.


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

mssp said:


> How many WC can you put on a 3" horizontal in the IRC code?


 
In Florida it used to be (2) W/C's maximum on a horizontal 3" line, but that has changed. Now it is based on the total number of fixture units. The maximum allowable number of fixture units on a 3" horizontal drain line with 1/8th" pitch is 36. If W/C dfu value is 3, then max. number of W/C's on that line is 12 (without adding any other fixtures). Personally, I think a drain line with 12 toilets should be 4". Gives the solids more elbow room.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> In Florida it used to be (2) W/C's maximum on a horizontal 3" line, but that has changed. Now it is based on the total number of fixture units. The maximum allowable number of fixture units on a 3" horizontal drain line with 1/8th" pitch is 36. If W/C dfu value is 3, then max. number of W/C's on that line is 12 (without adding any other fixtures). Personally, I think a drain line with 12 toilets should be 4". Gives the solids more elbow room.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


Wow! That is one lax code.
Even Canada's NPC, which is a real bare minimum IMHO, won't allow any less than a 1/4" per foot fall on anything under 4" and no more than two WC's on a 3" horizontal.

For the top ten my vote is on hanger spacing but for the most part I think you have to differentiate between the actual professional plumbers mistakes and the stuff HO's do every day.


----------

