# Can you ever go back?



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

We got fired from a light commercial job back in November, alright, we didn't get fired, but the GC did and the new GC brought in his own Plumber.

I cancelled out the permit (rough-in had been completed and signed off) got my money and moved on.

Anyway, I got a call from the owner of the space on Monday asking me if I would come out and set the fixtures (the new GC was also fired).

I went out to make a material list and couldn't believe my eyes -- The GC's plumber had torn everything I had put in out and redone the entire job. No new permit was pulled, btw.

All of the toilet rough-in's are off, the sink drains are roughed in too high, the water stub-outs in all of the cabinet bases came out on a partition or in a different cabinet, test tee's were buried inside of walls w/out being properly sealed and capped off and they have the T&P run down to the floor with no pan or indirect drain (I had run an indirect drain but they took it out) -- And the HW tank is directly above a coffee shop.

To make matters worse, they never hooked up either one of the shower stalls before the lid was put back up below -- Fortunately I discovered this when I was checking to see if test caps had been removed.

The owner of the space is looking at me like I'm some sort of moron or something (she didn't realize it had been re-plumbed). She kind of caught on when I pointed out that I had plumbed it in PVC (the new Plumber used ABS). I'm bringing photo's out this morning to prove it had been done properly the first time.

It looks like me and my guys are going to have a couple of days worth of work.:thumbup:

As for the original GC being fired, it was a righteous firing. He was 2 months behind schedule and missed several ADA requirements that cost her a lot of money. The second GC was fired for shoddy workmanship and major cost overruns.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Man get your Local code enforcement official out there before you touch it to clear yourself, so they can't drag you into court. Get the owner to sign off on proposed corrective actions needed.

I have seen issues like this drag the correcting contractor through the coals for violations and to get payed..

Have fun


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd walk away from that job, you don't need another ucler flare up...


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> I'd walk away from that job, you don't need another ucler flare up...


Agree 100%

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

GAN said:


> Man get your Local code enforcement official out there before you touch it to clear yourself, so they can't drag you into court. Get the owner to sign off on proposed corrective actions needed.
> 
> I have seen issues like this drag the correcting contractor through the coals for violations and to get payed..
> 
> Have fun


I agree. Time and material for this and it all needs to be redone. If its that bad above imagine below. Who would be paying for all of this though? I would be smiling all the way to the bank.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Why in the hell did they tear all your shiot out would be my first and last uuestion you already have to prove your self and the joob not even started yet red flac walk away


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Sounds like this customer is the one with the problem....she likes to fire people...

Just think of it your next to get fired.... Again


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> I'd walk away from that job, you don't need another ucler flare up...


Eff that. 

I'd get a big fat check up front, cash that somebish, and go to work.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I met with the second GC this morning and went over the photo's he had taken before the drywall went up.

Locating the two test tee's and capping them off properly isn't going to be too difficult and the trap arm for the indirect drain was cut and capped in the wall and should also be easy to find (the second Plumber didn't budget for a trap primer so he abandoned the indirect drain).

The sinks are all stainless drop-in's from Ikea and can be returned and exchanged for shallower sinks, so that's not quite the disaster I first thought it was.

As for testing and permitting, work is being done in the adjacent retail space -- I've already spoken to the foreman running the job next door and he's agreed to allow me access to the space to isolate most of the work for testing and inspecting. We won't be able to get to all of it though.

The shower drains are going to be a bit tricky, the only way to access them is through the ceiling of the retail space below. I left a message with the business owner and I'm waiting to hear back from her.

Toilets are going to be a clusterf. I can order 14" floor flanges and take care of the huge gap behind them, but minimum side clearances are going to be a huge issue. All I can hope for at this point is a waiver. On the plus side, there are no ADA bathroom requirements on the Approved Plans. A pair of ADA compliant bathrooms are just outside the space in a common area.

The second GC seemed like an okay feller to me, a little green, overwhelmed and understaffed, but at least conscientious enough to do a great job in documenting all of the electrical, plumbing and mechanical with photo's and as-built drawings. He had me stop by his current project for a look-see, it's just a Tenant Improvement job with very little plumbing. I'm writing him up a budget for it this afternoon. We'll see how that goes.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Eff that.
> 
> I'd get a big fat check up front, cash that somebish, and go to work.


I have a check for 12 grand from the business owner already -- And I feel confidant she'll be good for the rest.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

revenge said:


> Why in the hell did they tear all your shiot out would be my first and last uuestion you already have to prove your self and the joob not even started yet red flac walk away


 I'm not altogether sure why they had to take so much of it out -- I know there were a few alterations and additions, but not enough to warrant gutting the place.



OldSchool said:


> Sounds like this customer is the one with the problem....she likes to fire people...
> 
> Just think of it your next to get fired.... Again


The customer got screwed by the Architect first. He's a residential guy who had no business designing a retail space with ADA requirements. Things started to really go downhill after the framing failed its inspection. Hallways and doorways were too narrow and ceiling grids were too low, among other things. It also didn't help that the first GC left the job in very incapable hands.

The second GC made the mistake of lowballing his own bid and then stacked the job with lowball subs.

As a business owner myself, I feel the client was very patient until she couldn't be patient any longer. I wouldn't say she was overtly scammed, but she was definitely screwed over.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Why didnt you say something the first time when you seen things were not to code

I speak up right away doesn't matter what trade it is....

If it affects the project it affects me


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Why didnt you say something the first time when you seen things were not to code
> 
> I speak up right away doesn't matter what trade it is....
> 
> If it affects the project it affects me


I don't typically walk around measuring door openings or hallway widths on my jobs, OS, and I very much doubt you do either.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> I don't typically walk around measuring door openings or hallway widths on my jobs, OS, and I very much doubt you do either.



Unless they want a bigger water heater.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> Unless they want a bigger water heater.


Or you need to see if the one piece shower stall or one piece tub/shower is going to make it through the doorway. Been there, done that.

I've gotten pretty good at removing and reinstalling doors and door casings over the years.:laughing:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Heard back from the downstairs business owner about hooking up the shower drains. She's pissed. Instead of coming in at night to run the shower drains like I would have done, the Second String Plumber shut her business down and came in during the day. That's just wrong.

I wouldn't call her unreachable, but that's only because I cave when it comes to hyperventilating Wimmen. I'm not built to deal with that hormonal, emotional crap.

Right now we're discussing buying her a suspended ceiling to be installed in the dead of the night so as not to disrupt her livelihood before we attack and destroy her lid for the third time.

I actually feel bad for her. Her whole world has been disrupted enough (her words).

Hopefully I don't have to play the heavy on this and remind her of her 'Accessibility' lease requirements. That isn't going to end well.


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## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

GAN said:


> Man get your Local code enforcement official out there before you touch it to clear yourself, so they can't drag you into court. Get the owner to sign off on proposed corrective actions needed.
> 
> I have seen issues like this drag the correcting contractor through the coals for violations and to get payed..
> 
> Have fun


 could not agree more.. did they redo the underground too or just topout?? if they messed up that bad what could be under ground (toilets off) or in the walls you cant see??? i would walk off that one myself without knowing the specifics...:no:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

antiCon said:


> could not agree more.. did they redo the underground too or just topout?? if they messed up that bad what could be under ground (toilets off) or in the walls you cant see??? i would walk off that one myself without knowing the specifics...:no:


It's a 2nd floor retail space above a parking garage and 3 other retail spaces.

And yes, they re-did the underground -- The underground starts in the underground garage and transverses three occupied spaces.

Most of the "underground" is manageable.

Right now the biggest roadblock is 'handling' the tenant directly below the showers. Another roadblock is my reluctance to play the 'heavy'. She seems nice. I don't want to be the one to piss in her cornflakes.


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

So many people want you to walk away, if the owner understands you are there to save her project and you feel you can. Do it. 

"This type of job separates the men from the boys"


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

*Thanks for your kindness, but. . . .*



express said:


> So many people want you to walk away, if the owner understands you are there to save her project and you feel you can. Do it.
> 
> "This type of job separates the men from the boys"


I need the work.

That's pretty much the bottom line here.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Or you need to see if the one piece shower stall or one piece tub/shower is going to make it through the doorway. Been there, done that.
> 
> I've gotten pretty good at removing and reinstalling doors and door casings over the years.:laughing:


Last one I did, I had to take 6" of sheetrock, and the door framing(not load bearing) on one side....:furious:


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## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

If you can handle the headaches it's already causing. the headaches that are still to be and you need the money go for it. sounds like too many headaches 2 me I would charge an additional 10%


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## Adamche (Feb 10, 2012)

Airgap said:


> Last one I did, I had to take 6" of sheetrock, and the door framing(not load bearing) on one side....:furious:


bought a treadmill (shopfloor stock) no instructions....had to take 3 doors out to get it in to the house.....3 months later Wife shows me how it folds up!!!:blink::blink:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

antiCon said:


> If you can handle the headaches it's already causing. the headaches that are still to be and you need the money go for it. sounds like too many headaches 2 me


I need to keep my guys busy.

That's it in a nutshell right there.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Adamche said:


> bought a treadmill (shopfloor stock) no instructions....had to take 3 doors out to get it in to the house.....3 months later Wife shows me how it folds up!!!:blink::blink:


I have a coat rack just like that.


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## antiCon (Jun 15, 2012)

I too would appreciate that if I was one of your guys when you mention it like that my boss would probably do the same


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Adamche said:


> bought a treadmill (shopfloor stock) no instructions....had to take 3 doors out to get it in to the house.....3 months later Wife shows me how it folds up!!!:blink::blink:


That is funny.....:laughing:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Send me a ticket shinns, I'll be the heavy. I have the utility easement argument down pretty well. I think it would translate.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

they all pay up when everybody else gives up!:yes:


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