# Big water heater!



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

8 years old and leaking already..

425 gallon oil fired water heater, made by Prestige -I think..

I'll try to get some pictures posted, going over to get it bypassed and drained now.. Commecial building we can't shut the water off during the week unless it's after hours..

This water heater is like $12,000.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Might be better off putting in a boiler and an indirect hot water storage tank


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)




----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

It's 8' tall and 50" square..

It is Precision that makes it.. 

It is more like $20,000 just for the tank we would have to strip the jacket and it would still have an old burner on it. We are thinking about sizing it for multiple tankless units..

This place has 10 huge washing machines used for cleaning sports equipment, jerseys, shoulder pads, and helmets.. They use TONS of water in short amounts of time, the recovery rate would have to be very fast. That is why they have so much storage, there is already two steam boilers and a huge softener in this room.. There isn't room for more than 2 indirects..


----------



## PlumberJake (Nov 15, 2010)

Just put one of these in :laughing:



http://youtu.be/20X4A3S0It4


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

CTs2p2 said:


> 8 years old and leaking already..
> 
> 425 gallon oil fired water heater, made by Prestige -I think..
> 
> ...


 Whats the hot water for?


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

pilot light said:


> Whats the hot water for?


They clean sports equipment with large commercial washing machines.

Monday morning I'll clock their water meter to see what they use in a day.. I'm not sure how exactly to figure how much of the total water used in a day is hot water..


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

good question how many people are employed there?


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

Maybe 30-40 people..

They also repair damaged equipment, they have big commercial sewing machines and what not..

I think the machines are a much bigger load then the employees using the bathrooms


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

indeed just trying to wrap my head around it ! what temp water goes to the washers? the input btu of the tank is how much?


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

The heater makes 125, the washers have temp boosters I think, we don't work on the appliance part of this place, just the mechanicals..

The rating plate is blank, I wish I had thought to pull the electrode assembly out to see what size nozzle was in it..


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

http://www.precisionboilers.com/literature/FPW.8.18.11 Rev.1.pdf

If you scroll down to the first chart it is a FPW-46H-425C


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

1.540 million max. thinking....


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

oil or gas replacement ?


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

Not sure what they are going to do yet.. The unit that is there now is oil, but there is propane in the building already too...

It's 20 grand for a replacement tank for that exact unit.. But thats tank only, reuse the burner, jacket, controls, and everything else..


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

CTs2p2 said:


> http://www.precisionboilers.com/literature/FPW.8.18.11%20Rev.1.pdf
> 
> If you scroll down to the first chart it is a FPW-46H-425C


It's 970 to 1.5 mbtu

425 gallons storage

I would go with a much smaller boiler with more gallons of storage instead..... It would be a lot cheaper to install


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I would go what Old School said, smaller boiler and more storage with Tekmar control which can ramp up the btu on demand or by the hours of high demand usage..


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> It's 425,000 btu
> 
> I would go with a much smaller boiler with more gallons of storage instead..... It would be a lot cheaper to install




There is plenty of boiler already there.. 78 series McLain's twinned together steam. We can pull a wet leg and run an indirect or two.

The question is given the recovery rate of an indirect, how much storage will I need to cover the added time they would take to recover.. The leaking tank is 425 gallons and 1.5 million btu.. This is something that recovers faster than an indirect I would guess..


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

There is not room for another boiler and multiple indirects.. This thing is only 50 inches by 70 inches. It's 8 feet tall..

Haha how many 120 gallon horizontal Buderus indirects can I stack on top of one another and then put the boiler on top of..


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

CTs2p2 said:
 

> There is not room for another boiler and multiple indirects.. This thing is only 50 inches by 70 inches. It's 8 feet tall..
> 
> Haha how many 120 gallon horizontal Buderus indirects can I stack on top of one another and then put the boiler on top of..


I think buderus does make stackable tanks

What kind of space you have in that room?


----------



## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> I think buderus does make stackable tanks


 Same with Locvaivher (sp) but not sure with oil burner.. boiler on bottom with tank on top connected to frame, etc.


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

I just did a quick cal. And the tank and burner you got is capable of 1,875 gallons of hot water per hour at 80 deg rise

That's a lot of hot water

More than likely the system is over sized


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

I need to find out what their water consumption is during their busiest time of the year..

Nobody knows the load of this building and they are going to fall behind every day this heater is down.. They have hot water now but not to operate at full speed.. It's really not ON me to make the decisions so unless there is a good alternative or option I am going to keep my mouth shut.. Better to be oversized than not have enough. 

I have already suggested having a tankless rep come out and see just how many units it would take if possible.. 

I will know by mid week what we will be doing..


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

5 tankless should do it ...

Considering the best out put might be 7 gpm x 60 minutes = 420 gallons per hour

420 x 5 = 2,200 gph

No storage needed


----------



## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> 5 tankless should do it ...
> 
> Considering the best out put might be 7 gpm x 60 minutes = 420 gallons per hour
> 
> ...


 
I would get intouch with a rennai rep and get opinions


----------



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Are you going to pull the anodes when you take it out?


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

I still think some storage is a good idea and a mixing valve and then out too washers. For gas ao smith custom tank and two lochinvar armor heaters at 800,000 btu. That would totally exceed whats there! For oil I would replace it like for like!


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

that looks like a lot of work...

who gets to cut that pig out of there??


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

JK949 said:


> Are you going to pull the anodes when you take it out?



I could try.. Why, just to see what's left? Do they make good scrap? You want pics?

I would like to pull the clean outs. There is two hand holes. So I can show them why flushing this tank out is important.


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> that looks like a lot of work...
> 
> who gets to cut that pig out of there??



Saturday got it drained, and cut in a bypass on the water. That baby is already cut loose on the water side. Fire side still needs to be disconnected, smoke pipe and fuel lines..


----------



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

CTs2p2 said:


> I could try.. Why, just to see what's left? Do they make good scrap? You want pics?
> 
> I would like to pull the clean outs. There is two hand holes. So I can show them why flushing this tank out is important.


Yes, just to see what's left. If the anodes were consumed, then maintenance should have been performed to replenish them to keep the unit in service before corrosion compromised the tank. If the anodes are glazed over, they could have been checked and replaced, again to keep the unit in service. 

Think of it as covering yourself. $20,000 is a lot of money, 8 years isn't that long of time. If you can show why their unit failed and keep their new one working longer then you'll be the hero. Or at least make them responsible for their own unit when it fails in 8 years.


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

JK949 said:


> Yes, just to see what's left. If the anodes were consumed, then maintenance should have been performed to replenish them to keep the unit in service before corrosion compromised the tank. If the anodes are glazed over, they could have been checked and replaced, again to keep the unit in service.
> 
> Think of it as covering yourself. $20,000 is a lot of money, 8 years isn't that long of time. If you can show why their unit failed and keep their new one working longer then you'll be the hero. Or at least make them responsible for their own unit when it fails in 8 years.


Totally true! spoken like a true pro! Would you not service your new car regularly? Or at least get it checked! Now they need a new car! hmmm...


----------



## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

pilot light said:


> Totally true! spoken like a true pro! Would you not service your new car regularly? Or at least get it checked! Now they need a new car! hmmm...


Found this on the Precision Boilers link that was posted in this thread.

This limited warranty applies only if the installation and operating instructions applicable to the model purchased are 
expressly and completely followed. Commercial tanks, water 
heaters, and boilers are warranted for five (5) years against 
tank leakage and one (1) year on parts.
I. Tank Warranty: PRECISION warrants all tanks for a period 
of five (5) years from the date of shipment. If the original 
vessel of this unit should leak or should prove to be defective, PRECISION will, at its option repair, replace with a 
new vessel, or replace with a new heater of equivalent size, 
at no charge for the first three (3) years and prorated for 
the next two (2) years.
*All lined tanks require annual inspection and replacement 
of anode rods to validate this warranty.* Tanks with Cement 
Linings are warranted for a period of ten (10) years. Under 
the conditions described above, tanks with these linings 
are warranted at no charge for five (5) years and prorated 
for the next five (5) years.
II. Parts Warranty: PRECISION warrants all parts (except pilot 
lights, fuses and gaskets) for a period of one (1) year from 
startup, or 18 months after the date of shipment, whichever 
comes first. If any part of this heater should fail due to a defect 
in materials and workmanship, PRECISION will replace with a 
new part of same or equivalent model.
The following conditions are stipulated for Paragraphs I & II:
1. Failure of tank or parts must be confirmed through 
inspection by our representative.
2. Replacement tank, heaters, or parts will be invoiced 
at current retail price.
3. Full credit or prorated credit will be issued upon the 
return of defective tanks, heater, or parts to PRECISION.

4. All replacement tanks, heaters or parts will be 
shipped FOB shipping point, freight collect.
5. Warranty does not cover production of noise, taste, 
odors, discoloration or rusty water.
III. This warranty will be void if any of the following conditions 
are found to exist:
1. Operation of heater while tank water level is below 
heating elements.
2. Leakage resulting from lime or sediment precipi 
tates, damaged fittings, abuse or misuse by the cus- 
tomer, or defective installations.
3. Firing of heater in excess of BTU or voltage ratings 
stated on Data Plate.
4. Installation in other than original installation 
location or with improper pressure relief valve.
5. Ownership by other than original purchaser.
6. Unit not installed, adjusted or maintained in 
accordance with installation and operating instructions 
and all applicable state and local plumbing, electrical 
and building codes, ordinances, and regulations.
IV. Any replacement or repaired part is warranted only for the balance of the period in the original warranty.
V. PRECISION will not be held liable for any labor, freight 
charges, permits, loss of time, consequential damages, 
installation cost, removal cost, or contingent liability of any 
kind resulting from the manufacture, sale, installation, or use 
of this unit, or to the failure of item excluded from this warranty 
under paragraph II above.
VI. This limited warranty is in lieu of any and all other warranties 
and/or guarantees expressed or implied.


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

number 6 has it all! service your investment! agreed! anodes inspected annually hightlighted above!


----------



## CTs2p2 (Dec 6, 2011)

JK949 said:


> Yes, just to see what's left. If the anodes were consumed, then maintenance should have been performed to replenish them to keep the unit in service before corrosion compromised the tank. If the anodes are glazed over, they could have been checked and replaced, again to keep the unit in service.
> 
> Think of it as covering yourself. $20,000 is a lot of money, 8 years isn't that long of time. If you can show why their unit failed and keep their new one working longer then you'll be the hero. Or at least make them responsible for their own unit when it fails in 8 years.




I couldn't agree more!
Trouble is...I have to be careful with what I say.. I am an employee and not the employer. The company that I work for installed this thing 8 years ago..

I was working for this same company at the time of install, but wasn't actually involved with the install. 

I will pull the anodes and speak my piece with who's in charge on my end..

I think the amount of sediment in this tank is going to be the eye-opener on the lack of service.. It's an oil burner so it has had service (filters and such) but never flushed, cleaned or anode check like it should have..


I hope you don't think I'm arguing as I couldn't agree more, I just don't have a finger to point or a leg to stand on (on the lack of service) with out cutting off one of my own.. 


Thank you all for the responses, much appreciated..


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Its all good bro! :thumbsup:


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Okay it is leaking the warranty is void so we need to replace it!


----------

