# What Comes First



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

It seems the younger generation has it backwards...

I went on our annual fishing trip and some of my employees went all so....

The newest guy takes me aside after having a few beers and says .... I think it is time for a raise....

I said really... can you go out on your own and handle the jobs by yourself... and do more

He says.... if you pay me more I will do more...

I just cant believe the attitude now adays...

So I tell him I think he got it backwards... first you do more then you get a raise not the other way around......

Then he asked to go piece work and get a lump sum... per job... and he would be more productive....

I just got to give my head a shake every now and then.... what are they thinking..


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Is he a good worker? Does he have potential? If not, I'd probably let him go after that insight into his attitude. 








Paul


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Not all young plumbers are like that. Don't group me in ther I'm not the youngest but I am in the new generation I guess... I can't find a helper that can keep up with me I'm always waiting on them and picking up ther slack. Faster for me to do it myself sometimes.... I do know guys like that tho. Iv heard low pay low effort. Bull crap go flip burgers then... Its time to get gritty with it and get sh&t done I say If only I could clone my self. Lol!!!


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## WaterBoy (Mar 4, 2010)

I just keep my head down, work very hard and try to learn as fast as I can. I have never asked for a raise, but when the time comes I plan on knowing a lot more and to be able to perform a diverse range of plumbing before I ask for a raise.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

rocksteady said:


> Is he a good worker? Does he have potential? If not, I'd probably let him go after that insight into his attitude.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


at first he was a good worker and he does have potential* BUT *and that is a big but... he has been slacking and going in the wrong direction...

He has already done 12 months with us and had given him a $ 2.00 hr raise about 6 months ago because I seen how hard he was trying 

*But *lately I see the attitude and he is slowing down.....

He just finnished his HVAC coarse and I was going to sign him up for an apprenticeship for plumbing ..... but after this ... it leaves me wondering...

My next step is to send him out on his own..


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Set an example and lay him off.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Also i don't think its fair to make a blanket statement for the entire "new generation".
I am not like that, i haver never even asked for a raise, i keep my mouth shut and speak with my work.
People who open their mouths usally arent that good.
Im sure there were plenty of people in the old generation with bad work ethic as well.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Bringing that up while on vacation ??? Hope you made it clear that is not the way OLD or NEW !


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB (May 21, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> at first he was a good worker and he does have potential BUT and that is a big but... he has been slacking and going in the wrong direction...
> 
> He has already done 12 months with us and had given him a $ 2.00 hr raise about 6 months ago because I seen how hard he was trying
> 
> ...


He sounds like a bum if you give him a raise than he's got your number it will only be good for 6 months he's to comfortable


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Cal said:


> Bringing that up while on vacation ??? Hope you made it clear that is not the way OLD or NEW !


Yes it was a shocker.....

Stuck in the middle of the bush and it could have got real ugly....


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

I had a guy work for me some years back, he was brand new but was a personal friend. I paid him $500 a week and taught him for about 6 or 8 months. Bought him tools, taught him the trade, and after 9 months he was finally able to take the average service calls on his own....so he was finally almost worth the $500 a week. He told me he needed a raise or he was quitting. I let him walk, he wanted to come back a few weeks later...apparently his new boss wouldn't hold his hand and he wasn't quite where he thought he was in his skill level!

People kill me.

Not everyone is like that, but I see it a lot more in the new guys than I used to. There are definitely some good guys out there, some hard working kids who want to learn a trade and who will dig the hell out of a ditch if they are told to do so. But there's some kids who would rather get paid than work.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

BROOKLYN\PLUMB said:


> He sounds like a bum if you give him a raise than he's got your number it will only be good for 6 months he's to comfortable


I agree with you totally.

I can see it coming...

a raise of 2 buck every 6 months ... before you know it I will be working for him.

I think it is time to turn up the heat


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

hroark2112 said:


> I had a guy work for me some years back, he was brand new but was a personal friend. I paid him $500 a week and taught him for about 6 or 8 months. Bought him tools, taught him the trade, and after 9 months he was finally able to take the average service calls on his own....so he was finally almost worth the $500 a week. He told me he needed a raise or he was quitting. I let him walk, he wanted to come back a few weeks later...apparently his new boss wouldn't hold his hand and he wasn't quite where he thought he was in his skill level!
> 
> People kill me.


Wow..... Did you take him back?


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

Whats the big deal? He took you aside, its not like he made a scene in front of the whole group. If you want to tell him no raise then that's fine but whats wrong with him making his position known? I personally wouldn't have done it on a vacation but that's neither here nor there.
I bust tail and get work done and I expect to be well compensated for it. I read all of the owners on here talking about charging what they are worth or need to stay viable regardless of what the competition charges. If the employee feels that's what he is worth and or what he needs than you can either agree and pay him or disagree and get rid of him just like a customer can agree to pay your rates or go somewhere else. Why is such a sin for an employee to put a value on his time and labor rather than allowing an employer arbitrarily determine their worth? Like I said its your show and you can do what you like but jumping all over someone because they try to advance themselves is bulls#$t.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

bartnc37 said:


> Whats the big deal? He took you aside, its not like he made a scene in front of the whole group. If you want to tell him no raise then that's fine but whats wrong with him making his position known? I personally wouldn't have done it on a vacation but that's neither here nor there.
> I bust tail and get work done and I expect to be well compensated for it. I read all of the owners on here talking about charging what they are worth or need to stay viable regardless of what the competition charges. If the employee feels that's what he is worth and or what he needs than you can either agree and pay him or disagree and get rid of him just like a customer can agree to pay your rates or go somewhere else. Why is such a sin for an employee to put a value on his time and labor rather than allowing an employer arbitrarily determine their worth? Like I said its your show and you can do what you like but jumping all over someone because they try to advance themselves is bulls#$t.


 
I think everybody's problem stems from the "if you pay me more, I'll work harder" attitude. I'm an owner and I think I should be able to charge for what I'm worth but I don't think I'll provide better service for more money. If somebody has a coupon or recieves a discount for whatever reason, I don't do a pro-rated job. I do the best I can every job and I think an apprentice or employee should do the same. 





Paul


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

bartnc37 said:


> Whats the big deal? He took you aside, its not like he made a scene in front of the whole group. If you want to tell him no raise then that's fine but whats wrong with him making his position known? I personally wouldn't have done it on a vacation but that's neither here nor there.
> I bust tail and get work done and I expect to be well compensated for it. I read all of the owners on here talking about charging what they are worth or need to stay viable regardless of what the competition charges. If the employee feels that's what he is worth and or what he needs than you can either agree and pay him or disagree and get rid of him just like a customer can agree to pay your rates or go somewhere else. Why is such a sin for an employee to put a value on his time and labor rather than allowing an employer arbitrarily determine their worth? Like I said its your show and you can do what you like but jumping all over someone because they try to advance themselves is bulls#$t.


That was a half-a$$ way of asking for a raise. If he was THAT good, OldSchool would have seen it. He said he gave the guy an extra two when he saw effort.

NEVER ask while on an employer paid trip . . . NEVER ask after a few beers.

Guy should of manned up and requested a sit down with OS in the office. Conversation should be something along the lines of:

Bossman, six months ago you gave me a raise and I appreciated it. I want to continue moving up in pay. What can I do to earn more?

BS is laying down on the job because you think you should be paid more. That's not work ethic - that's an "it's all about me" attitude. 

Contrary to your posting about the way employers do it - most employers stress day in and day out trying to find work for their employees. Employers are the last to get paid in the company.

FWIW - Contrary to popular belief, money is not a long term motivator.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

bartnc37 said:


> Whats the big deal? He took you aside, its not like he made a scene in front of the whole group. If you want to tell him no raise then that's fine but whats wrong with him making his position known? I personally wouldn't have done it on a vacation but that's neither here nor there.
> I bust tail and get work done and I expect to be well compensated for it. I read all of the owners on here talking about charging what they are worth or need to stay viable regardless of what the competition charges. If the employee feels that's what he is worth and or what he needs than you can either agree and pay him or disagree and get rid of him just like a customer can agree to pay your rates or go somewhere else. Why is such a sin for an employee to put a value on his time and labor rather than allowing an employer arbitrarily determine their worth? Like I said its your show and you can do what you like but jumping all over someone because they try to advance themselves is bulls#$t.


It went a little deeper than that.... this guy is only 19 turn 20...

So far he has been only a helper for one of my guys....

The conversation went a little further than that.... when he asked about flat rate on a current town housing complex .. he asked how much the company was getting and that more or less he expects a share of that...

I just told him ... he is not priveledge to that information and that I am not going there... and left it at that.... it was not the time nor place to be either discussing such matters...

I found it rude... and disreceptful... could have been the beer so I am not holding it against him...

Its just funny that alcohol brings out what is truly on some ones mind...

And if you are a money maker I would pay you large for what you did....

But to put the cart in front of the horse.... and think that is the way it should be... by saying " I will be more productive if you pay me more" is just out right crazy....


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

PlumbCrazy said:


> That was a half-a$$ way of asking for a raise. If he was THAT good, OldSchool would have seen it. He said he gave the guy an extra two when he saw effort.
> 
> NEVER ask while on an employer paid trip . . . NEVER ask after a few beers.
> 
> ...


I agree, well put.
If youn want a raise ask what extra responsibilities you can take on.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

I haven't had a raise in like 6 years. But I'll tell you what I do have. 

1. A job
2. company provided vehicle to take home
3. 2/3 of my health insurance paid
4. 2 weeks paid vacation and 7 holidays plus the friday after thanksgiving
5. A laid back boss that understands health and family come first

that's why I've been there for almost 20 years. I say watch him carefully. He may throw the " i got hurt at work" deal out there if he doesnt get his way.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

WaterBoy said:


> I just keep my head down, work very hard and try to learn as fast as I can. I have never asked for a raise, but when the time comes I plan on knowing a lot more and to be able to perform a diverse range of plumbing before I ask for a raise.


 You have a great heart and a lot of potential.

I'd hire you in a heartbeat.

And I'd share the water you brought with you without batting an eye.

I hope this works out for you.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

house plumber said:


> I haven't had a raise in like 6 years. But I'll tell you what I do have.
> 
> 1. A job
> 2. company provided vehicle to take home
> ...


I got to be the biggest laid back guy on the plumbing planet..

- every 2nd monday I take them for breakfast... 
- some friday I take them for lunch
- they dont work after hours
- they dont work weekends
- they dont do a job that I wouldn't do
- they are not responsible or asked to sell anything
- they get the company truck
- we are starting a pension plan for them
- we close for two weeks at christmas
- we dont work the day before long weekends
- we give as many personal days as needed
- we consider family first and the motto is we work to live not live to work

and so much more..... I think they got it good.... I never had it that good


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

WaterBoy said:


> I just keep my head down, work very hard and try to learn as fast as I can. I have never asked for a raise, but when the time comes I plan on knowing a lot more and to be able to perform a diverse range of plumbing before I ask for a raise.


You never know who is watching. I hope you never have to ask for a raise.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> I got to be the biggest laid back guy on the plumbing planet..
> 
> - every 2nd monday I take them for breakfast...
> - some friday I take them for lunch
> ...


I'm moving to Canada. Is it warm there in the winter? :laughing:


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

not bad... r u hiring? :thumbup: 

Ya not the best attitude. Im 23, fully licensed plumber and gas fitter and I guess it would be "new generation" (I'm guessing new generation would be based on the new code?) When I started I made minimum wage and continued at that rate into my apprenticeship. Even now I work for below the average pay yet still haven't ever asked for a raise. I learned the old school way by gettin constantly reamed and yelled at, working long hours, weekends, holidays and calls. Never had a boss offer me a trip or even a bbq to that manner. tell your kid, hes got it really good and there is lots of newbies who would be more than willing to out work him for that chance. 

We had a guy work with us for a month and since the day he started kept asking for more money and an apprenticeship. every day! He couldn't handle the boss and quite, than after realizing how lucky he really was called back for his job (he didn't get it back). I told him the day he started "the only reason your in this trade is luck" but he never listened to me.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

red_devil said:


> not bad... r u hiring? :thumbup:
> 
> Ya not the best attitude. Im 23, fully licensed plumber and gas fitter and I guess it would be "new generation" (I'm guessing new generation would be based on the new code?) When I started I made minimum wage and continued at that rate into my apprenticeship. Even now I work for below the average pay yet still haven't ever asked for a raise. I learned the old school way by gettin constantly reamed and yelled at, working long hours, weekends, holidays and calls. Never had a boss offer me a trip or even a bbq to that manner. tell your kid, hes got it really good and there is lots of newbies who would be more than willing to out work him for that chance.
> 
> We had a guy work with us for a month and since the day he started kept asking for more money and an apprenticeship. every day! He couldn't handle the boss and quite, than after realizing how lucky he really was called back for his job (he didn't get it back). I told him the day he started "the only reason your in this trade is luck" but he never listened to me.


If you are willing to move the great white north you never know.

so whats up with the attitude part?


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

Im talking his attitude not yours. I agree with you. I've seen lots of guys come and go. we had one guy quite cabinet making for 20 bucks and hr and a 3000 dollar bonus if he stayed, to be a plumber. He started at 12.50 an hr and in 3 years worked his way to 15 bucks and hr. He worked his can off, day and night and never asked for more. He was an excellent apprentice but had to leave when bills piled up. Now he works at a mechanical company for 18.50 and they actually yelled at him for working to hard and to fast. 

And I'm just kidding about the job. I'm loyal to my company and journyman even with sub par pay and no benefits.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

red_devil said:


> Im talking his attitude not yours. I agree with you. I've seen lots of guys come and go. we had one guy quite cabinet making for 20 bucks and hr and a 3000 dollar bonus if he stayed, to be a plumber. He started at 12.50 an hr and in 3 years worked his way to 15 bucks and hr. He worked his can off, day and night and never asked for more. He was an excellent apprentice but had to leave when bills piled up. Now he works at a mechanical company for 18.50 and they actually yelled at him for working to hard and to fast.
> 
> And I'm just kidding about the job. I'm loyal to my company and journyman even with sub par pay and no benefits.


Dam... I pay this guy 16 hr and he is first year helper... his gas ticket is about two weeks old


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## red_devil (Mar 23, 2011)

...... holy crap, how far up north are you LOL. Tell him that story, he might think twice. I started at 9.50 an hr and saved my first ever pay check of a 60 hr week at soemthing like 350 bucks. And that wasn't that long ago considering.


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## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

I didn't see in the OP that the guy was a helper or that it was a company paid trip. I assumed, obviously incorrectly, that he was a full fledged HVAC tech not a entry level pipe conveyor. All the stuff about wanting a cut of the project, yeah that's definitely out of line. OS seems to be pretty straightforward and it sounds like your bennies are more than fair, I wasn't jumping on you or your biz, I just read it you being offended that an employee dared to ask for a raise.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

bartnc37 said:


> I didn't see in the OP that the guy was a helper or that it was a company paid trip. I assumed, obviously incorrectly, that he was a full fledged HVAC tech not a entry level pipe conveyor. All the stuff about wanting a cut of the project, yeah that's definitely out of line. OS seems to be pretty straightforward and it sounds like your bennies are more than fair, I wasn't jumping on you or your biz, I just read it you being offended that an employee dared to ask for a raise.


I am more than fair with employees and customers....

And I would be the first guy to just hand you a raise if I can see effort and a willingness to move forward...

He never asked for the first raise.... I just gave it to him...

I would pay a guy what he is worth in a heart beat.... and he would never have to ask.

But to say .... if you pay me more I will do more... that is just nonsense

how about doing more and then the raise will come all on its own.... 

Great workers are hard to find and I would never want to lose them... so they get rewarded for that.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

I had an employee do that to me once. He had 8 yrs in the trade & was still a helper. His excuse was that he could never find a plumber he could get along with long enough to learn more than how to run pex. I told him his problem could be found by looking in the mirror.
I'll never forget that "If I got paid more I might do more". Told him he was a dumbazz & sent him packing.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I think a man can't gloat all day on his lack of pay. He will do shoty work and wine and cry to other employees and that attitude is contages If you don't like your pay ether leave or shut up and work and make the company some money !!! The boss knows who is working hard and who is screwen off !!! He will or should take care of you in long run...... As far as asking for a profit share or a percentage. That's freaking crazy. I'd def get my as$ handed to me if I did that. Lol. Ether it was the beer or he is stupid!!!


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> I got to be the biggest laid back guy on the plumbing planet..
> 
> - every 2nd monday I take them for breakfast...
> - some friday I take them for lunch
> ...


Not to critisize and please don't think I am but several Navy Admirals got a think tank together when the Navy retention was seriously down and posed the question "what keeps employees"? The top answer wasn't the pay or benefits but it was job satisfaction and respect in the workplace. However your benefits do sound nice.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I think a man can't gloat all day on his lack of pay. He will do shoty work and wine and cry to other employees and that attitude is contages If you don't like your pay ether leave or shut up and work and make the company some money !!! The boss knows who is working hard and who is screwen off !!! He will or should take care of you in long run...... As far as asking for a profit share or a percentage. That's freaking crazy. I'd def get my as$ handed to me if I did that. Lol. Ether it was the beer or he is stupid!!!


Hopefully it was the beer....

I learned a long time ago never to drink with employees ... because something like this always happens...

I figured there is over 40 guys at this outing from all different occupations and that more than likey I would never have interacted to much with my employees if they were drinking...

So I just chaulked it up to the beer.... but I do have to pull him aside now and have a one on one in the near future....next week maybe.... I dont get to see my employees that much...


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

gear junkie said:


> Not to critisize and please don't think I am but several Navy Admirals got a think tank together when the Navy retention was seriously down and posed the question "what keeps employees"? The top answer wasn't the pay or benefits but it was job satisfaction and respect in the workplace. However your benefits do sound nice.


Job satisfaction comes from with in yourself.... doing something you really want to do.... that I can not give to any one.

Respect is earned and if you are truly happy in the occupation you are doing and become skilled you will surely gain respect.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Job satisfaction comes from with in yourself.... doing something you really want to do.... that I can not give to any one.
> 
> Respect is earned and if you are truly happy in the occupation you are doing and become skilled you will surely gain respect.


I def agree with that!!!


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> *Job satisfaction comes from with in yourself.... doing something you really want to do.... that I can not give to any one.*
> 
> Respect is earned and if you are truly happy in the occupation you are doing and become skilled you will surely gain respect.


 
I think it even goes beyond that. A truely great work ethic will make you work hard and excell at tasks you don't like. I'd like to think I have been a good worker for quite a while and have had many jobs I don't love, or even like. I think that this might have been a fortunate insight into his ethic and if you don't him go I'd at least keep a better eye on him and his performance. 





Paul


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Hopefully it was the beer....
> 
> I learned a long time ago never to drink with employees ... because something like this always happens...
> 
> ...


Probably right about it being the beer... :laughing:

Maybe the thing to do in the future is cut off the conversation with a, "We're here to have fun and not talk shop."

Then say, "When the trip is over come in the office and we'll talk."

That will at least take the beer out of it... :laughing:

I'll agree the pay me more and I'll work harder line is BS...

But, I'll also say that I've been in situations where the bustin azz was there and the reward never came so the bustin azz was scaled back... :whistling2:

If you weren't up there in a frozen wasteland I'd be glad to work for you OS... :thumbup:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Probably right about it being the beer... :laughing:
> 
> Maybe the thing to do in the future is cut off the conversation with a, "We're here to have fun and not talk shop."
> 
> ...


You never know I may open a shop in your city some day :laughing: ... one piece at a time... soon I will be in 4 cities up here


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## rvaughnp (Nov 19, 2009)

> I got to be the biggest laid back guy on the plumbing planet..
> 
> - every 2nd monday I take them for breakfast...
> - some friday I take them for lunch
> ...


If it wasn't so cold.:thumbsup:
Have you thought about making a pay scale guidline? You may not want to do it for the sake of just one employee. But at least he would know where he stands.
Or, let him walk or encourage him to and let him see how the rest of the world works.
We have great insurance, one paid day (christmas) no other paid holidays, 1 week off reagrdless of tenure, company vehicle, and I am a Manager. The service guys are on call one week a month, 24/7 for the the week. 
Glad to see an owner giving back, to bad you have someone that is ungreatful.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't know, but if were me I'd sit the kid down and let him know you didn't appreciate how he handled asking for a raise and while your at it tell him how you saw potential in his work ethic in the begining and that earned him a $2.00 raise. But lately you haven't seen the same kind of effort... I think you'll see pretty quickly what kind of employee you have.


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

16 an hour!? Wow that's great pay. I was running a 300 home community for 12.50, and had to threaten to quit to get bumped up to 16. And I just didn't flat out threaten, I asked the boss every 3 months for almost a year before I went looking for another job and presented him with what they offered. Told him match it or I walk. And he knew what I was doing for him so he matched it. I'm 24 and would never think of saying "pay me more and ill do more". If I was the boss and Someone said that to me, they would be s**t canned in a heart beat. Tell your helper he doesn't know how good he has it.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

marc76075 said:


> 16 an hour!? Wow that's great pay. I was running a 300 home community for 12.50, and had to threaten to quit to get bumped up to 16. And I just didn't flat out threaten, I asked the boss every 3 months for almost a year before I went looking for another job and presented him with what they offered. Told him match it or I walk. And he knew what I was doing for him so he matched it. I'm 24 and would never think of saying "pay me more and ill do more". If I was the boss and Someone said that to me, they would be s**t canned in a heart beat. Tell your helper he doesn't know how good he has it.


$16 an hour? To run work? 

I started out at $6.40 as a 1st year apprentice. I'm at $22.30 as a journeyman. Total package is $30.50. And I am only 27. 

Im guessing I fit in the new generation OS is speaking of, I rose from the ranks of a laborer to a journeyman plumber, I didn't get here by being lazy. Don't let one bad apple ruin the whole bunch. There are plenty of young hands that will keep caring the trade when the old timers retire.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I started in this trade as a helper digging ditches for $ 7.00 an hour. The boss liked me, his partner wanted to pay me less!


Then I worked my way up as an apprentice. Doing all the grunt work, digging, humping tubs and toilets up steps in apt. bldgs., etc.

Then I was a journeyman. Still digging and doing grunt work.

Now I have a master's license. At 43, I am still digging and doing grunt work in addition to the administrative part of the job, i.e.: (applying for permits, drafting proposals, meeting with customers, in-office paperwork, sending IRS the proper forms, filing all other papers, like license, certifications, etc). 

Old School, you treat your guys great! That 19 year old kid doesn't know how good he has it. You sound like a nice guy. Explain to him the facts of life, if he doesn't like it, he can leave.


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## BarriePlumbing (Nov 10, 2010)

Wow, it is good that he can come to you and ask about a raise - but to do it during off hours - thinking - we got a few in us ... why not see if he's more laid back. That just does not seem right. But I really can't believe that he would say - i'll work harder if you pay me more. That is crazy backwards and he is just asking for you to look into his work ethics.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I had an employee try to tell me I should split a job I did well in. I told him as soon as you start splitting my overhead, I'll start splitting my profits. I fired him a week later.... I had some real problems as an employee though.

I didn't like how safety was harped on every day, but as soon as it would take too long to do it safely than I could shimmy across piping to get stuff done. Or crawl in a chase wall through a toilet paper holder spot. But I better wear my safety glasses and hard hat while setting sinks. I literally told the company to lay me off every day for 6 months before they finally did. (as an apprentice you can't quit here or you quit your entire apprenticeship). 

I was the problem solver on the jobs, I always got the work no one else wanted or could figure out. I had journeymen helpers as a 3rd year apprentice and was running work but, I was expected to kiss the formans ass every day. I'm much happier running my own shop now. I guess some people are just made to be the boss and others are made to be employees. 

In any case, I have found that if you pay an employee too little he will get resentful and his work will slow. If you pay him too much, he will think he's more valuable than he really is and his work will slow unless you pay him MORE. It's the balance that's very difficult to attain.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Plumberman said:


> $16 an hour? To run work?
> 
> I started out at $6.40 as a 1st year apprentice. I'm at $22.30 as a journeyman. Total package is $30.50. And I am only 27.
> 
> Im guessing I fit in the new generation OS is speaking of, I rose from the ranks of a laborer to a journeyman plumber, I didn't get here by being lazy. Don't let one bad apple ruin the whole bunch. There are plenty of young hands that will keep caring the trade when the old timers retire.


I'll second that Chad, well said!


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

U666A said:


> I'll second that Chad, well said!


 right on brother!


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## marc76075 (Nov 24, 2010)

I quickly moved up to 22 with company van and gas card. I still felt under paid but the van and gas card helped alot. I was 19-20 at the time and I don't think the boss liked paying me that being so young, but I had been plumbing since 16. I finished high-school 6 months early so I could work full time.


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