# A case for commissioned sales/plumbers



## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Ok, I know I'm going to get flamed for this, especially after just reading the Muck's thread (welcome back muck), but I don't care. Hear me out.

My 14 year old dishwasher bit the dust. I don't repair them so I called someone out. 

He says "the repair is $320 but you can buy a new one for around $400 so it's probably not worth it". I say "ok, what do you offer that's comparable to what I have and how much is it?". He says "Oh we don't sell them, we only fix them".

So today I figure, although I really have no desire at all to fix this thing, it'll have to come out anyway in order to put in a new one, so I'll just take a look. It's all rusted up from leakage around the pump shaft and it turns out that the new pump (if that's the only problem) is well over $100, so for me this is a no brainer, I'm getting a new dishwasher.

So the wifey and I trot on down to the local Blowe's, I hold my nose, and we walk in. Well maybe they were just victims of my bias along with the fact that they were at the beginning of my re-learning curve with respect to dishwashers (both box stores offer installation for $99 so it's been several years since I've installed one) but we didn't find anything that made me want to buy it, at least not before checking elsewhere.

Next stop is HD. Don't know how their help is paid but I suspect there is some profit sharing or spiffs or something along those lines because the guy made a decent effort to help us figure out what we wanted, seemed reasonably knowledgeable and didn't miss an opportunity to at least offer us something nicer. I had a little fun interrogating him about the install and whether or not it would be performed by an actual plumber. He squirmed a little but didn't lie. So we found the one we wanted and said "ok this is it, can you get it up front for me?". His reply is "we don't have it in stock, it'll be Friday before I can have it here". Well this is completely annoying to me because I really can't understand why a 100,000 sq. ft. store (or however big it is) doesn't have what I want when I want it, so I leave. Next stop is HH Gregg. I'm met at the door by an obviously commissioned sales rep who asks how they can help. I say "looking for a dishwasher" and she directs me. She asks "if I just want to look a bit" and I tell her "yes that will be fine". She doesn't hover but positions herself to be easily and instantly found. After 10 min. of looking I find what I think is the best one of the offerings for the money. I'm in the process of asking her whether or not I can take a dw home today if I find the one I want. She asks which one and I'm about to show her when my wifey informs me that she doesn't want any of their dws. Ok, off to Best Buy. We don't have to look long because they have the one we were going to get at HD. So I ask they guy "Do you have this in stock", he says "I don't know I'll go check". He comes back after 5 min and says "No we don't have that one, it will have to be shipped" Ok so now I'm resigned to the fact that I'm not going home with a dw from anywhere today so I ask him "ok when will it be here?" and he says .... "uh I don't know, I'll have to go check" My wifey and I look at each other in utter disbelief! Dude, really, have you not perceived that we are trying to give you our money. How could you possibly have seen that you didn't have it and NOT find out when it would be here?! So I wasted a couple of hours of my life and came home empty handed.

Now this may not be the best example because I'm a plumber and I will install my own dishwasher but lets say it was something else. Lets say it was my 40 year old oven that died. Had the repairman said "I can repair it but you really shouldn't tell me to. I can offer you something very similar or something nicer that is of top quality (and having repaired everything I know what is good and what is not). The similar model will cost $750 installed and it will be finished this afternoon or the nicer model will be $1000 and it will be finished this afternoon. I would have told him put in the similar model and let me know when it's done. Oh btw there would have been virtually no sales involved on his part. I recognize the value of my time and really didn't want to fool with it but he didn't even offer me the option. If I know a dw or an oven costs around $400 and it's going to take a couple of hours to install then I'm going to tell the guy to get it done.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

From that post i get that you didn't find a dishwasher in stock and you didn't want to wait for the one you wanted to come in so you drove around town looking for it when you could have got the model number and called around. Then at the last place you went you got mad at the guy working their because you drove around town and didn't get what you wanted and the guy had to check on the questions you had for him.

Oh and what did the guy charge you to come out and tlell you that you need a new dishwasher.....and why did you call a guy out to 
look at an old leakign dishwasher when it takes an hr to install a new one? Sounds like you have more time that you act like.

ADD> The repairman prolly just wanted to collect his trip fee. I bet he works on 1 out of 5 he goes "to look at". The rest is collecting service call fees.:yes:


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

All the places you mention have very little storage, there wide open and you can see everything, I think the only thing they have walled off are the bathrooms and offices.

Is there a " Brandsmart " there? They keep a large inventory of dishwashers.

Which model are you looking at buyin?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I hate salesmanship. You can't believe a thing a salesman says when they are trying to make a buck off you. I refuse to "sell" my services to anyone. I explain what should be done, and any options as the customer expects me to know all the different options. Then I leave it to the customer to decide.

There's nothing wrong with being polished and informative to a customer, but the way these places operate aren't with the customers best interest in mind. They want you to replace an entire water heater when a T&P valve is leaking. They don't care if its a two year old heater. Change an entire sink for a clogged aerator. If something needs to be replaced, by all means replace it. If it isn't a big deal suggest it but don't make it out to be a life or death thing if it isn't.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

No I bought the dw at the last stop, because I was tired of looking for one and realized that apparently no one would have it in stock. 

I did not know that it was leaking.

SC was $79.00 and no, I don't diagnose dishwasher problems, I am a master plumber/gas fitter, I do not work on appliances.

I did not get mad at him, I simply couldn't understand why he wouldn't come back the first time with the answer to my inevitable question, "when will you have one". It's as if he expected me to say "ok" and leave. 

I don't want to have to wash dishes by hand for the next week. I will be doing it and it won't kill me but I just don't get why the appliance guy didn't offer to sell and install a replacement, or at least sell me the replacement (he did know that I was a plumber). Every closet in your house is stuffed full of Delta faucets, you're telling me your not offering them to anyone and everyone .


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

smellslike$tome said:


> No I bought the dw at the last stop, because I was tired of looking for one and realized that apparently no one would have it in stock.
> 
> I did not know that it was leaking.
> 
> ...


Not exactly, that's what his coffee table is made from.......................


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

smellslike$tome said:


> No I bought the dw at the last stop, because I was tired of looking for one and realized that apparently no one would have it in stock.
> 
> I did not know that it was leaking.
> 
> ...


OK Ok I was jus roughin ya up a little....How bout that catch julio jones made:thumbsup:.

Now I know your a master plumber and thats why I cant believe you didn't take the cover off the front of the dishwasher and take a look before you called a guy out to repair it. I mean if your truck broke down would you open the hood and have a look or just call a tow truck?

The appliance guy has given up trying to sell new appliances. He is selling labor and service charges.
There are a couple of dedicated appliance stores here that keep higher end stuff in stock...I'm surprised B town doesn't ..its a nice city.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

did you price check different repairmen or call the 1st one? :laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Smells I'm not disagreeing with you in the least. 

Fortunately we have an outfit near here a Hardware and Appliance store that does just that. Great Honest service that does say when to stop beating the dead horse, and when they say that, they are ready to sell you a new one, just come on down to our show room and pick out what you want. Early in the day you might have it installed the same day as they stock them in their warehouse, later in the day you'll have to wait until tomorrow...

I have bought all my appliances from them.:thumbup:
By the way they are hourly employees.

Also I do work as a plumber on flat rate commission and have at a couple of companies.

Some are little more than a den of thieves overstaffed where employees will get a shot at 2-3 jobs a day and they better make each one count to the max and the companies only objective is to have a warm body to send to every call ASAP. They don't care about being overstaffed because with commission it doesn't cost them anything and they sure as heck don't care about employees with an employee turnover of 30% or better. They also turn a blind eye some shall we say extremely aggressive up selling saying it nicely but you know what I mean. Like that loose packing nut on the shut off valve for the water heater can turn into a leaking water heater...

While others are the polar opposite and offer the same type of service that you were looking for with your dishwasher. Good full honest service! Start to finish!

The difference is that they tend to have realistic staffing levels where everyone can make a decent living. Hardcore upselling is discouraged but at the same time multiple options are offered and techs do look out for additional problems that can turn into additional jobs. The guys from that other type of company where the loose packing turns into a leaking water heater would rapidly be figured out because that behavior is not encouraged and unusually high numbers would draw attention. Perhaps having the boss ride along for a while to see what is happening...:laughing:

Darn all of a sudden his numbers bottom out whenever the boss rides along...:whistling2:

Thats the difference!

Which company would you want to own or, work for?

Which company would you want to plumb at your house?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Which company would you want to own or, work for?
> 
> Which company would you want to plumb at your house?


 Neither, I don't believe anyone who works off a commission based salary can be trusted to give a 100% honest answer. Hourly has its draw backs too. You can always have a slow plumber, but they usually get fired because I have a pretty good idea how long a job should take barring unforseen circumstances. And a hourly plumber won't be extra slow just to get more from customer as their rate doesn't vary. 

I always take my time and don't repair anything that is unnecessary to repair unless it's at a customer request.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

house plumber said:


> did you price check different repairmen or call the 1st one? :laughing:


I did not price check. I called the same company I have called for about the last 10 years. Being a plumber and having faced situations in the past where tire kickers would have me and 4 other plumbers come give quotes for the same job, completely disregarding the fact that it was costing each of us money to come out and look at it, I would never dream of doing this to another company. I use who I have always used and will continue to use them until they begin to not provide good service. Btw we avoid the tirekickers now by charging to come out ($59.00). If you agree to the sc, we know that you are at least serious about taking care of your problem.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I learned first hand last week about selling something you can not deliver on till a couple days later. 

I was on a sewer rod, outside 6" clean out. The home owner was worried about the condition of their pipe since they just moved in. Well I found some bad spots.


























All these where up by the house about 15 to 20' out from the front in a grassy area. The home owner was mentioning they spent a lot of money on getting their grass looking the way it does. So I mention pipe patch to them. After explaining to them how it works and what it does and the cost, the home owner asks me if I have the equipment and patches on the truck. When I said no it will be a few days for me to order the patch kits he looked disappointed. He was happy with my rodding and tv'ing his line for him. Paid me and I went on my merry way.

I drove by there two days later and sure enough he hired a guy that had the kits in stock and was able to do it the same day. I stopped and talked to the contractor and home owner turns out they guy was charging a bit higher higher than I quoted but was able to do the work that moment.

So lesson learned for me. Do not try to sell something I do not have.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

My whole point is that it's very easy for an hourly employee (btw we are an hourly shop) to slump into being simply an order taker whereas, even though there is a large potential for abuse, commissioned employees make it there business to educate themselves about every aspect of the product they sell. They make their money by flooding the customer with information. I am not nor was I ever talking about lying about the nature of a problem, making it worse than it is, that's thievery and hopefully everyone understands that. On the other hand what is wrong with offering something? Don't sell it at all, just throw it out there and a certain amount of people will say yes. "Mrs. Jones I can rebuild this kitchen sink faucet and it will work just fine, however, it's an 80's era faucet and it's pretty beat up from the years, what do you think about maybe replacing it with this (pull nice new shiny ks faucet out of your pocket and wave it enticingly under her nose)." I can sell with honor, without lying or even fudging the truth. Sometimes people just want things and maybe they don't know they want them until you make it available to them. It's not my job to tell people what they should or SHOULD NOT want. If they don't want it, fine, maybe the next person will.

How many of you like to fish? There is no difference at all. You go fishing and you are selling a product to fish who have brains the size of a pea (how much harder it is to sell to a human being). If you are in the right place at the right time and your product (lure) is right and your presentation is right, you are going to put a fish in the boat. Now let me ask you, every time you boat a fish does a wave of guilt come over you? Do you feel immoral for catching that fish or are you pumping your fist, jumping up and down, whooping and hollering, high fiving your buddy over the monster fish you just caught? You convinced the fish to bite but you did not make him bite. You didn't drop a stick of dynamite over the side of the boat and call yourself a fisherman did you? No you presented a bait and the fish wanted it and bit.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

People buy on impulse all the time. Nothing wrong with selling somthing if you dont lie to do it. I sell all I can and be ethical about it.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

TheMaster said:


> People buy on impulse all the time. Nothing wrong with selling somthing if you dont lie to do it. I sell all I can and be ethical about it.


 Me to I'm honest about what needs to be done, and let the customer decide. Nothing wrong with having faucets and fixtures on the truck for those impulse buys.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

If any kind of store...be it BB, HD, L, etc. has ANY stock on an appliance...eg. dishwasher, it will probably only be the one they sell the most, probably a cheapie. If you are anywhere near a large city, GE, WP, and Sears, usually have a very large distibution center within a day or two of your area.

HD and L...they do not work on commission. They are expected to meet certain goals, but no money involved directly. Sometimes, there could be spiffs on upselling a certain model, or an extended warranty.

Not sure how BB, Fryes, Sears, etc work. Don't have and buds there!


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Get a Miele.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Get a Miele.


 
just be prepared to drill a 3 iinch hole in the cabinet for the solenoid valve. thats really the only thing i dont like about them.


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## Nevada Plumber (Jan 3, 2009)

It's been a long, long time since I have heard of an appliance repair person also selling them. I think the big box stores took that away.

Best Buy does not pay commissions, Fry's does.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

SewerRatz said:


> I learned first hand last week about selling something you can not deliver on till a couple days later.
> 
> I was on a sewer rod, outside 6" clean out. The home owner was worried about the condition of their pipe since they just moved in. Well I found some bad spots.
> 
> ...


What is this pipe patch you are talking about?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumber Jim said:


> What is this pipe patch you are talking about?


http://www.s1eonline.com/pipepatch/trenchless-technology


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> What is this pipe patch you are talking about?


Thanks Redwood for posting the link. The guys at Source 1 are amazing, and the tour at the Fernco plant was a good learning experience. I really like this product and its ease of application.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

A case can be made for commissioned plumbers as well as a case why not to.

With employees, one size rarely fits all. On commission, some will be tempted to push the envelope . . . without commission, some will get very bored. I am considering offering commission/spiffs to see what, if anything, changes. 

Human beings desire to be rewarded and it does not have to be financial rewards. Some will appreciate time off, others a sincere thank you, other a compliment etc. Our jobs as employers is to find out what motivates each individual employee.

My husband would do very well on commission and not violate any code of ethics. He is motivated by money and competes with himself to do better. It's his personality. When he bids a job, he includes a realistic amount of time to complete it. However, when he actually does the job, he is hell bent on beating that time. Customers cannot believe the way he works - he won't take a break and is 100% on task. If I happen to call him while on a job where he is trying to beat his time, watch out. It isn't pretty.

It's human nature for some (the majority IMO) to do enough to get by . . . when you pay them a set pay, you will only get 'just enough,' never more.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

PlumbCrazy said:


> A case can be made for commissioned plumbers as well as a case why not to.
> 
> With employees, one size rarely fits all. On commission, some will be tempted to push the envelope . . . without commission, some will get very bored. I am considering offering commission/spiffs to see what, if anything, changes.
> 
> ...


Yeah try an experiment and see if it works.:thumbsup: Thats the only way.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

TheMaster said:


> Yeah try an experiment and see if it works.:thumbsup: Thats the only way.


If you are offering encouragement and are being genuine (which I highly doubt), Thank You.

If you are being sarcastic . . . I am not afraid to try something new. For the most part I like our employee's production/sales; however, I won't know if they could be better unless I try. Keep doing the same and you can expect the same results. I'm always pushing for better. No need to get stuck in a rut of mediocrity when excellence is right around the corner.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Cat

Do give it a try and I am sure that you will be pleasantly surprised.I enjoy the sales aspect and so do the other guys.What is more surprising is the communication process.You will start to see a new exciting difference in the way your techs communicate with each other and then it spreads to the office and home. It is amazing once the techs learn that they have 2 ears ,2 eyes and one mouth . Listening and observing turns into questions about the other person and less about the individual of the company.

I have no doubt that you will hold each person to the highest ethical standards and inegrity combined with honesty. Best wishes for a successful adventure.


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

Redwood said:


> http://www.s1eonline.com/pipepatch/trenchless-technology



I wonder how far you can push one of them down the line.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> A case can be made for commissioned plumbers as well as a case why not to.
> 
> With employees, one size rarely fits all. On commission, some will be tempted to push the envelope . . . without commission, some will get very bored. I am considering offering commission/spiffs to see what, if anything, changes.
> 
> ...


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Nobody wants to call me when I'm in the field anymore! I'm not necessarily trying to beat a certain time (I try to make sure I price work so that there is no particular need to rush) I just find it exceedingly annoying to have to stop what I'm doing to answer the phone/radio. It's so bad that whenever I do call in, I get a barrage of questions that get stored up, waiting for me to call. Not sure what this says about me? Maybe it's something I need to work on some more.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumber Jim said:


> I wonder how far you can push one of them down the line.


I'm not sure Jim I haven't personally used these but others at our company have I'll see if I can get an answer for you.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> I wonder how far you can push one of them down the line.


 When I got factory trained on this, they have a system where you can push it or you can use a cable to pull it in place.

The patch I made was pushed through a 4" clean out made a 90º at the base and a pair of 45's right after and out just over 50' and it pushed through with ease. They where telling me about a guy that did over 200' with this on a historic property where there was no digging allowed on the grounds.

When I get the system I am getting 150 of push rod with the 4x6 bladder, and the elbow bladder.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Richard Hilliar said:


> Cat
> 
> Do give it a try and I am sure that you will be pleasantly surprised.I enjoy the sales aspect and so do the other guys.What is more surprising is the communication process.You will start to see a new exciting difference in the way your techs communicate with each other and then it spreads to the office and home. It is amazing once the techs learn that they have 2 ears ,2 eyes and one mouth . Listening and observing turns into questions about the other person and less about the individual of the company.
> 
> I have no doubt that you will hold each person to the highest ethical standards and inegrity combined with honesty. Best wishes for a successful adventure.


 Cant argue with that...if anything inspires the crew and gets them interested in sales (in the right way) customer relations and puts a dynamic into them...gotta be good.


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