# Two Man Rule



## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

When you clean out a mainline and you have to do a vent using the lager machine, do you use a two man rule, or do you have a way to do this task by yourself?


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## Song Dog (Jun 12, 2008)

I do it myself. I will do what ever to stay away from going through a vent in the roof, if I do I have help.
My big machine Spartan 2001, can truck it in pieces so I can handle it pretty well.

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## threaderman (Jun 17, 2008)

My days of doing a main-line from the roof are all but over.I own the K1500 which is not pratical for roof jobs.Eventually I may get the k-60,but for now I probe to find the bldg sewer or I install my camera through the w/c bend or vent and then locate it and install a clean-out.I've done hundreds of roof calls from Chicago to Tampa to Vegas and here,I'm done!
Maybe 1 in 7 calls are for drains which is good,I lean towards the mechanical aspect of our trade,repairs and remodels or additions,and a lot of gas work,which is probably half my work.
Besides ,all you need here to clear lines is a machine or a jetter,you do not need to be licensed so the area is whored out with drain guys.


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I use the ladder, and the cable through the pipe to the vent trick.

I run a couple extension cords, and split the cord when I need to stop it.

I do everything in my power not to do a roof job. it's not to safe. As a matter of fact, I have not done a roof job in about year. 

I luck out sometimes, my foot peddle is long enough to reach if the vent is 2' from the overhang. I run the largest duracable mainline on the market.


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## threaderman (Jun 17, 2008)

The k-60, gorlitz and the electric eel make cleaning the bldg.drain through the roof fairly easy,but I only need one large machine.The sewer companys can have the roof jobs if I can't sell a clean-out or get the blockage from a closet bend or other access.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I use a k60 and prefer going on a roof to pulling a toilet.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Agreed on pulling the toliet. Too many varibles. Had a supply line nut break at 11:00 at night and no parts on the truck..... Should have run the vent line.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I am a one-man operation. I do up to 6" lines up, out to 150 feet with my K-60. Thats my limit until I get busy enough to buy a jetting machine. I prefer to pull a toilet than to go on a roof, my truck is loaded with parts, so I have no problem changing the supply valve, supply tube, wax ring and bolts while I am there...if they don't want to pay for that, *then they should have a cleanout installed as local codes require.* I try to sell a cleanout, so I don't have to come back and pull the toilet next time. Sometimes if the sewer is full of bad roots, I get lucky and sell a whole new sewer and then I NEVER have to come back, unless the homeowners flush a large animal down the drain or something.:laughing:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Uhhh...
I don't do roofs...
I'll put in an outside cleanout before I went on a roof.


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## service guy (Jun 26, 2008)

I tried the roof thing with my K-60 and loved it. As long as its not too steep, I'll be on the roof from now on rather than pull a nasty toilet.:thumbsup:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Another K-60 guy here. 

Mark


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## jimqbaum (Sep 10, 2008)

*Roof vent drain clearing*

Hi,
I have on occasion gone through the vent on the roof in lieu of pulling a toilet but...... ask yourself what value to the customer is it by going on the roof? The customer's don't really know how much money they are saving by getting up there versus pulling a toilet. How much more money can you make pulling the toilet?
Yea, this pulling the toilet thing is getting expensive, how about a clean out Mrs. Jones? 
I know several guys who came back from Viet Nam and have survied many missions only to fall off a ladder and become permanitley crippled to some extent. Dummy me is staying off roofs!


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Hi jimqbaum,

Your profile says you found us via job site magazine, do you still have the magazine, if so can you scan or take a picture of it to post it on here, that would be cool


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

jimqbaum said:


> Hi,
> I have on occasion gone through the vent on the roof in lieu of pulling a toilet but...... ask yourself what value to the customer is it by going on the roof? The customer's don't really know how much money they are saving by getting up there versus pulling a toilet. How much more money can you make pulling the toilet?
> Yea, this pulling the toilet thing is getting expensive, how about a clean out Mrs. Jones?
> I know several guys who came back from Viet Nam and have survied many missions only to fall off a ladder and become permanitley crippled to some extent. Dummy me is staying off roofs!


You're saving time. I can go on a roof faster and have the job be cleaner than if I pulled a toilet.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

We never go on roofs. Especially since we only have a large drum machine which is never run without two guys present.


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## uaplumber (Jun 16, 2008)

My newest purchase. Got both sizes of cable. Also bought the root ripper:thumbsup:


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

uaplumber said:


>


That thing looks evil.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

uaplumber said:


> My newest purchase. Got both sizes of cable. Also bought the root ripper:thumbsup:


Hey that's what I use. With all the ridgid talk I thought I was the only one.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

uaplumber said:


> My newest purchase. Got both sizes of cable. Also bought the root ripper:thumbsup:


No, wait a minute that's the 91 which is like a mid size. I use the 90 and the mini rooter and now the j-2900 :icon_cheesygrin:.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

uaplumber said:


> My newest purchase. Got both sizes of cable. Also bought the root ripper:thumbsup:


No, I don't know what I'm talking about! I do use the 91 and I don't think there even is a 90. It just looks kinda small in that photo.


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

The one I use is quite similar. It has a huge 5/16" or so metal base in front of it though instead of that metal tubing. The thing weights a ton.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Our rule was we only go on the roof once. If the HO did not install a CO by the time they had their next problem we asked them to call someone else.

Mark


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

> my truck is loaded with parts, so I have no problem changing the supply valve, supply tube, wax ring and bolts while I am there...if they don't want to pay for that, *then they should have a cleanout installed as local codes require.* I try to sell a cleanout, so I don't have to come back and pull the toilet next time. Sometimes if the sewer is full of bad roots, I get lucky and sell a whole new sewer and then I NEVER have to come back, unless the homeowners flush a large animal down the drain or something.:laughing:


genius! I ABSOLUTELY could never see myself climbing up on a roof with a drain machine. lol.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

I dont do too many line clearings, but when I have to I do it myself


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## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

I discovered gorlitz at a cleaner convention in nashville in 1985 and never looked back, with the big machine and the right guy we can go thru a low roof vent almost as fast as a clean out but these days the stack must be on front of house ,level yard and line not over 140 ft or so from house.But I always try to sell an outside co. If I am by myself I pass it to a friend of mine who always has 2 men on drains that I tell him about over nextell. I carry 175' of11/16 cable for mainlines.I bought another new machine in 2000 and sold the old one for $850.00 with a new 150 ft cable


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## M5Plumb (Oct 2, 2008)

Ditto !!! I will not climb! I'll pull the closet all day long and push for a C/O install.:no:


Redwood said:


> Uhhh...
> I don't do roofs...
> I'll put in an outside cleanout before I went on a roof.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

*No roofs for me*

Unless you have an elevator to the roof
Install Outside clean outs. Thank God no roof vents around here all basements.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

The only thing I'll go on a roof for is a roof drain and even then I'll be selling a jet.
It's not my problem if they do not have the code required cleanouts.
It takes minutes to pull a toilet and reset it.
I have everything I need to fix any problem that crops up from pulling a toilet whether a new angle stop, flange replacement or, flange repair.
It's really not my problem if they have substandard plumbing and incurr extra costs.

I'm not going on the freakin roof!

They need a cleanout installed!


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## Green Country (Mar 6, 2009)

I'll take a roof over pulling a toilet almost any day. Sure, you charge more for pulling a toilet, but by the time everything is said and done you can make more per hour most of the time by just hitting from the vent and getting to the next one. No mess to clean up, no lugging the machine through the house, etc.

I guess if things are slow and you don't have another job scheduled the toilet would make you a little more money, but I'd rather have the job done with and be on my way.

Of course, this all hinges on the fact that you have the equipment to clean a line from a vent, like cable stiff enough to run up a ladder and a machine with a retriever. I use to work for roto-rooter and most mainlines from the vent would only take about 45 minutes, by myself.


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

If I go on the roof I usually use my gen eye jetter then i will run my camera through it and if there are still roots or obstuctions left that need to be cut out or retrieved I will pull a toilet and inform the ho that the job would be much cheaper next time if they took the time to invest in haveing a clean out installed.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

we will get on the roof. Alone. I'll run the general root 66 on the roof. It can't be to steep though. Usually sell a cleanout. I'd say 30% of the homes out here don't have cleanouts.


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## KratzerPlumbing (Feb 23, 2009)

I hate it but I do it. I would say I am on a roof at least once a week. Have fallen twice and not gotten hurt. First was a 2 story roof My wife says quit pushing my luck cuz 3rd times the charm I have a Quadra Plex and I carry both pieces up. I refuse to run the main from a pulled toilet because of the mess that an open drum makes in the house


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

KratzerPlumbing said:


> I hate it but I do it. I would say I am on a roof at least once a week. Have fallen twice and not gotten hurt. First was a 2 story roof My wife says quit pushing my luck cuz 3rd times the charm I have a Quadra Plex and I carry both pieces up. I refuse to run the main from a pulled toilet because of the mess that an open drum makes in the house


Then why are you running an open drum?:blink:


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## KratzerPlumbing (Feb 23, 2009)

Because I am a cheap bastard and that is the equipment I have used for the last 20 years:tongue_smilie: Also I fear Change!!!!:laughing:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

My shop had a bunch of Quadra-Plex machines as well (amongst others). I believe some of them are now almost 30-years old and still in service. I believe the newer models now come with chrome plated frames and cages. Terry William does a good job and is still the guy answering the phone when you call. His father was the Williams in Williams Drain Cleaners.

Mark


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I use a k-60 one man on the roof. If it can't be cleared that way we put a tracer head on the cable and locate the cleanout. If no clean out, they pay for one. I have never had a 4" drain that couldn't be cleared with a k-60 unless it was packed with grease or damaged. In those cases it's time to jet or replace pipe.


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## KratzerPlumbing (Feb 23, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> My shop had a bunch of Quadra-Plex machines as well (amongst others). I believe some of them are now almost 30-years old and still in service. I believe the newer models now come with chrome plated frames and cages. Terry William does a good job and is still the guy answering the phone when you call. His father was the Williams in Williams Drain Cleaners.
> 
> Mark


They are chrome plated and pretty bullet proof. I have had the same machine for 20 years and do very little maintenance to it. The cable has lasted 5 years and it just about to need replacing. The Williams is lighter but that company is pretty flaky and hard to get cable blades from. Terry on the other hand is great to work with


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## WestCoastPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I run my duracable fromt he roof every once in awhile. I am not into doing vents, I believe the customer should have a cleanout, but, I am willing to break my rule here and there.

I put up my extension ladder, slide my drum machine up to it and snake the cable onthe rung, run 2 power cords and hook them to the vent and disconnect when I have to turn power off, I have a nice groove in my aluminum ladder from the cable.

I recently purchased a k-60, hate it so far, I need to be a time and material company to make anymoney with it, but I am giving it a chance still. :thumbsup:

Maybe it will just be used for roof jobs, which I don't do that much of....


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Theres my pop on tuesday. On a roof. BY HIMSELF!! He was very happy that I was on the ground taking pictures of him WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






!!!!!!:thumbup:


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## Artisan (Apr 14, 2009)

__Umm, that pipe on the roof is called a vent. :yes: It is not for snaking a line. :no: Alls one can hope for is to punch a tiny hole in a blockage at best. I have seen it a gazillion times. The owner says " I can't seem to get ahold of my regular plumber and he always did it from the roof" :laughing:, and of coarse now the line is occluded to the point that the roof "trick" no longer works and the other "plumber" moves on to greener pastures for he is clueless in selling a proper clean out and or has not the proper tools / knowledge to do it! Ha! 

__"Mrs Jones, we do not cable from the roof, there are lots of "handymen" whom will do it to you, and you will eventually be sorry. When was the last time you inspected the condition of your roof after a plumber crawled on it? Additionally w/o a proper safety harness, if that guy falls off your roof and gets paralyzed, and knowing that most jacklegs whom do things halfassed do not carry health insurance, do you think he is going to refrain from going after *YOUR* homeowners insurance policy when he falls, breaks his neck and impales himself on his handheld electric 1/4" home depot special snake? Trust me Mrs. Jones, if a jack-leg falls off your roof and can never work again _he WILL SUE YOU / GO AFTER YOUR HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE POLICY _to pay for his ever growing welfare supported family.

__To properly do it Mrs. Jones, you need access, at ground level so one can use a big heavy machine, a machine you can not carry on to the roof and again, if a guy DOES disassemble a big machine and hump it up there what do you think is going to happen to the water membrane over your head / THE ROOF that NO ONE ever goes to check after these atrocities are committed? If the guy leaves the machine on the ground, and attempts to cable the main from the roof he burns up 50' of cable before he ever goes horizontal into your line, usually tears up the edge of the shingles that overhang your facia boards, and most of the jack legs only have a 75' cable anyways because they can't afford the good stuff! ...

__We simply refuse to do substandard work Mrs. Jones and our insurance company will not allow us to work on your roof w/ electrically powered rotating machinery. For only $1XXX.00 will get you a permanent main line clean out installed, and an attempt at cabling your main and we will camera it as well, excavation, parts and labor included." (of coarse some lines omitted here that I would tell the client prior too ) 

__I can here some of you now, "Why you gawd dam son of a *****in' gawd dam son of a *****, I have been using roof vents for forty years and I never fell off ya pissant of a California Type " Well, be my guest. I hold fast here on this and I make wayyyyy more money then you doing adding code mandated clean outs then you do using a vent for a clean out doing forshit work ! I betcha you stock lots of Silicone and Band-Aid pipe repair clamps on your rig too, yes? ( I have none ) Perhaps you have a full assortment of p-trap connectors VERY similar to a shock absorber boot on the front forks of a dirt bike in stock in several flavors yes? ( I have none ) Maybe you can also so a REAL GOOD JOB of poking a quality hole in the top of a clay pipe to save Mrs Jones money, and expertly cover this "clean out" access w/ a trimmed up Budweiser can (recycling a beverage can that was used during the dig yes?), or maybe you are the King at making water flow uphill under a home where no one sees it (with no straps or supports, and of coarse you have never used "China Caps" nor trimmed off closet bolts ever and no one ever cares yes?

__Yep, I know your kind... :laughing: and you make ME, LOTS of Doubloons!

__Just yesterday a guy w/ a 6 unit called me. I didn't want the job because the jack legs in from of me had the place so eff'ed up. He wanted a pro this time, cause HIS PEOPLE could not figure it out :laughing:. I read him the riot act, NO WARRANTIES ON DIAGNOSIS BECAUSE SO MUCH STUFF IS ASSBACKWARDS. I caved when I saw him in distress (water was OFF and a 30 year old 1/2" BLACK line that fed a TWO BATH HOME (LOL) was gone-by-by to the rust gods. I charged a PROPER selling price whereas I can afford to send my kids to college and buy my deserving wife a nice car like "his wife drives" and I got er done and NOW, after seeing a pro work it is GAME ON TIME, a new client. He wants a price to repipe the whole shootin match now! :thumbup: PEX it is! No more copper crap, it FAILS and I have seen copper fail in 4 short years, type "L" from new! 

/rant-off

(sumsofa*****es) :furious:

Nothing personal gents, I have very strong opinions on some things and nuttin gonna change that.


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## Artisan (Apr 14, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Theres my pop on tuesday. On a roof. BY HIMSELF!! He was very happy that I was on the ground taking pictures of him WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> View attachment 1381
> !!!!!!:thumbup:


 Oh MAN!!! Take that picture down brother...! Your insurance company can use it AGAINST you if there is ever a fall! Plus OSHA can NAIL YOUR BALZ TO THE WALL with that picture! :blink:


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

Protech said:


> I use a k-60 one man on the roof. If it can't be cleared that way we put a tracer head on the cable and locate the cleanout. If no clean out, they pay for one. I have never had a 4" drain that couldn't be cleared with a k-60 unless it was packed with grease or damaged. In those cases it's time to jet or replace pipe.


 
Ditto here, K-60 one man, may send a 2nd guy on 2 story or higher just depends on the call. 
Whats this "tracer head"? Are you refering to a chain kocker?

I hate going from a clean out I don't get paid to mow the grass, trim bushes etc, hit it from the roof and let mother nature clean up.

I guess it's different and I understand for you guys up north, I'm from Upstate NY, and remember putting roofs on steeeeeeep!!  But here most are single story ranch style homes.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Artisan said:


> Oh MAN!!! Take that picture down brother...! Your insurance company can use it AGAINST you if there is ever a fall! Plus OSHA can NAIL YOUR BALZ TO THE WALL with that picture! :blink:



If your scared, say your scared? Osha is welcome around me any time. They can come over saturday if they like. Ill be mowing the lawn in my flip flops.


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

you better make sure they are steel toe flip flops! hey rock whatz upppppppppp!!!!!!!!!


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

SUP leak. Artisan is very opinionated on this issue huh? Negative Nancy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

How did ya get your old man up there? Gotta give ya props for that.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I have mind control over pops. Whens hes around, I be quiet. But when he leaves, i be talking again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ASUPERTECH (Jun 22, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Theres my pop on tuesday. On a roof. BY HIMSELF!! He was very happy that I was on the ground taking pictures of him WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> View attachment 1381
> !!!!!!:thumbup:


 
*Since work is up and down here, I thought about carrying the leaf blower and as an add on option blowing off roofs and cleaning gutters. The only thing holding me back, is the fear another plumber might see me performing this "handyman" task.*


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Just make sure your leaf blower is properly grounded. Osha could have a feild day with you if not!!!


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

FYI OSHA has it in their heads that any , I repeat ANY cable machine powered by a motor is a 2 man job for job safety. Now do not get me wrong I do not agree with them I ran a rodding truck by myself for years.


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## panchoblinky (Mar 11, 2013)

*Well said Brad well said,,,,,DD*



Artisan said:


> __Umm, that pipe on the roof is called a vent. :yes: It is not for snaking a line. :no: Alls one can hope for is to punch a tiny hole in a blockage at best. I have seen it a gazillion times. The owner says " I can't seem to get ahold of my regular plumber and he always did it from the roof" :laughing:, and of coarse now the line is occluded to the point that the roof "trick" no longer works and the other "plumber" moves on to greener pastures for he is clueless in selling a proper clean out and or has not the proper tools / knowledge to do it! Ha!
> 
> __"Mrs Jones, we do not cable from the roof, there are lots of "handymen" whom will do it to you, and you will eventually be sorry. When was the last time you inspected the condition of your roof after a plumber crawled on it? Additionally w/o a proper safety harness, if that guy falls off your roof and gets paralyzed, and knowing that most jacklegs whom do things halfassed do not carry health insurance, do you think he is going to refrain from going after *YOUR* homeowners insurance policy when he falls, breaks his neck and impales himself on his handheld electric 1/4" home depot special snake? Trust me Mrs. Jones, if a jack-leg falls off your roof and can never work again _he WILL SUE YOU / GO AFTER YOUR HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE POLICY _to pay for his ever growing welfare supported family.
> 
> ...



I concure Doctor Brad,,,,,
I agree and concure,,,,,
No machines on the roof Thanks you very much,,
No machines on the roof
I cant believe COTG clean outs to grade are still not mandatory via UPC or Calif Building Code
Dave Doyle:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## panchoblinky (Mar 11, 2013)

Well said Brad 
I concure and agree
Dave Doyle
Rapid Rhino Plumbing


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

OH give me a break I have been a Calif. Licensed Contractor since 1989
and have hundreds of main sewer blockages from a roof vent without tearing up a roof and using a full size cutter blades, and yes I have installed plenty of proper clean outs as well, point is I can do either one and run circles around your ass while you are giving a home owner your 10,000 dollar pitch to save them from ruin ! :whistling2:

Yes I agree a ground clean out is nice to have have but is not always necessary
to properly clean a main sewer line "WHAT" you don't think a jetter with a 
Root Ranger or other nozzle would not work from a roof vent ? :thumbup:

and yes I always cut my toilet bolts down and install caps !
and I know all about installing L.A. Code P-Traps


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Not to put too fine of a point on it when I started out, 
breaking or cutting a hole in a sewer pipe and laying a piece of cut down plastic milk carton on the hole in the pipe was the way I was taught to clear a main sewer but then I was also using a 75' flat tape to run the line with talk about poking holes in a blockage ! 

but when the U.S.A.F. got around to buying a real sewer machine even though 
it was supposed to take two men to operate it most times I ran it by myself !


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## sierra2000 (Sep 19, 2011)

Artisan is 10 minutes from me. Is he not on here anymore?


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

*No roof for me please!*

For safety reasons...
1, OSHA requires a safety harness be used at all times
2, If my employees climb a roof, I have to pay a much higher workers comp rates
3, the cost is $200 extra
4, I have to use a smaller machine and cannot do as good of a job id I were to go through a cleanout.
5, To much hassle
6. hard on my old back
7, sell the client a much needed cleanout and do the job right.


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## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

damnplumber said:


> For safety reasons... 1, OSHA requires a safety harness be used at all times 2, If my employees climb a roof, I have to pay a much higher workers comp rates 3, the cost is $200 extra 4, I have to use a smaller machine and cannot do as good of a job id I were to go through a cleanout. 5, To much hassle 6. hard on my old back 7, sell the client a much needed cleanout and do the job right.


I will not do a mainline from a roof. A secondary maybe but it depends on the roof, the client and how I feel that day


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## supakingDFW (Aug 19, 2014)

damnplumber said:


> For safety reasons...
> 1, OSHA requires a safety harness be used at all times
> 2, If my employees climb a roof, I have to pay a much higher workers comp rates
> 3, the cost is $200 extra
> ...



The first old plumber I ever worked for told me once..."Boy, if you fall off the roof, you're fired before you hit the ground!"...:laughing:


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## Drain Pro (Nov 3, 2013)

supakingDFW said:


> The first old plumber I ever worked for told me once..."Boy, if you fall off the roof, you're fired before you hit the ground!"...:laughing:



I think I worked for him too.


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