# your choice of boiler?



## rjbphd

As we started the threads of choice of preferred products... what about you boiler experts? What are your preferred boiler brands and why?


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## RealLivePlumber

Columbia. Nothing better. 

Utica's pretty good too. 

Weil Mclain for the budget jobs.


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## incarnatopnh

Completely depends. My first choice has always been Dunkirk. I like the Navien combi boilers. I have a supply house that is constantly pushing Crown boilers but I haven't seen one I really liked. Unless their quality falls off, the Dunkirk sticker will always be on the side of my van.


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## boilergrappler

Weil McClain for cast iron. Triangle Tube has been really good for us the last 4-5 years now. Almost quote and install nothing but Triangle Tube anymore.


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## billy_awesome

I was very surprised in the quality of Weil Mclain.

Did a big boiler job with indirect hot water heating.

Sent the specs to Weil Mclain, and they designed a system for me to install.

Best part about it was a) I didn't have to waste valuable time figuring out how to pipe everything and what I needed. and b) if something ever goes wrong its easy to point the finger at Weil Mclain and you get better diagnosis of problems and warranty work processed!


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## trick1

For cast iron pinners, I specify Utica.

For cast iron triple pass , its either Buderus of the Utica Trifire 

Mod/Con I like the Lochinvar Knight, Utica UB series or the Buderus GB series.


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## rjbphd

For regular 85% percent boiler job.. Weil Mclain... Bryant boiler (rebadged Junkirk) are the worst design and service.


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## jnohs

weil mclain for most residential
utica for condensing
buderus for standard boiler with high efficiency

i personally don't like condensing boilers, it seems they have reinvented the wheel with a square box

the boderus i have herd with a blue flame seems to be the new defacto. standard equipment non condensing super efficent. i think this might take the cake.

Oh and i believe steam is the best heat but i am not mush of a stem fitter my self. i just like the physics behind hit and it true simplicity. no circulators pumps, just boiling water. such a beautiful novel approach to getting heat to where you need it.
if the power goes out you can light a fire in the blast chamber and get heat to the whole house. not that that would be some great idea but it would work...


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## vinpadalino

For oil I love Slant Fin. NTI for gas. 
oil Furnace Hallmark/ Gas furnace Rheem.


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## okcplum

Vaillant ecotec plus is the boiler I like the best, it's a combi.


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## mtfallsmikey

*Dumb question from the geezer*



mark kiernan said:


> Vaillant ecotec plus is the boiler I like the best, it's a combi.


How long has Vaillant been back in the U.S.? I used to sell the heck out of those years ago.


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## okcplum

I don't know if they are back in the USA. 

I have imported a couple from a company called emes engineering factors ltd.


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## racerx

weil mclain is all i install.


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## intohotwater

I like Buderus boilers. All the sizes. For the larger sizes I like to match the Buderus boiler with the Riello power burner. Buderus is only 1 of 2 companies in the industries that cast there own sections. With adding silica and installing a distribution tube on the return I can run a cast iron at a higher delta T. There stainless boiler has 2 supplies that can be used. One for high temp and for low temp. You can use one or the other or both.


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## ZL700

mark kiernan said:


> I don't know if they are back in the USA.
> 
> I have imported a couple from a company called emes engineering factors ltd.


Wow that would be a long wait for parts and warranty.


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## ZL700

intohotwater said:


> I like Buderus boilers. All the sizes. For the larger sizes I like to match the Buderus boiler with the Riello power burner. Buderus is only 1 of 2 companies in the industries that cast there own sections. With adding silica and installing a distribution tube on the return I can run a cast iron at a higher delta T. There stainless boiler has 2 supplies that can be used. One for high temp and for low temp. You can use one or the other or both.


Mestek (smith and hydrotherm) still cast their own product in US, so does US Boiler (Burnham). Weil McLain does too but in a China factory. ECR's are cast in Ohio but contracted at a foundry

Buderus doesn't cast all thier products in Germany and Netherlands though the GB wall hung exchanger is made in Korea for example. 

There are more but I forget.


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## intohotwater

ZL700 said:


> Mestek (smith and hydrotherm) still cast their own product in US, so does US Boiler (Burnham). Weil McLain does too but in a China factory. ECR's are cast in Ohio but contracted at a foundry
> 
> Buderus doesn't cast all thier products in Germany and Netherlands though the GB wall hung exchanger is made in Korea for example.
> 
> There are more but I forget.


Your right. I was referring to the larger cast iron boilers.


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## ZL700

intohotwater said:


> Your right. I was referring to the larger cast iron boilers.


 I'd call Burnham and Smith 5 million btu cast iron boilers big


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## intohotwater

ZL700 said:


> I'd call Burnham and Smith 5 million btu cast iron boilers big


Yup Buderus cast iron goes from 1 million to 5 million btu


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## walker426

ZL700 said:


> Mestek (smith and hydrotherm) still cast their own product in US, so does US Boiler (Burnham). Weil McLain does too but in a China factory. ECR's are cast in Ohio but contracted at a foundry
> 
> Buderus doesn't cast all thier products in Germany and Netherlands though the GB wall hung exchanger is made in Korea for example.
> 
> There are more but I forget.


Just installed a burnham alpine nice condensing unit stainless steel also


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## Piper34

Burnham ,Dunkirk ,condensing TT prestige,


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## Catlin987987

We install lots of RBI and Laars
usually nothing under 400MBH though


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## gtmechanic

Weil Mclain for steam, Viessmann Vitodens for hot water, I refuse installation of non condensing boiler for forced hot water applications.


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## Joeypipes 23

I will never install a Weill mclain unless I have no choice. I preferr Burnham independence boilers


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## OldSchool

gtmechanic said:


> Weil Mclain for steam, Viessmann Vitodens for hot water, I refuse installation of non condensing boiler for forced hot water applications.


Why?


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## Joeypipes 23

OldSchool said:


> Why?


Yea why


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## Bulldog Plumbing

walker426 said:


> Just installed a burnham alpine nice condensing unit stainless steel also


Wait until the screen stops working or your neutralizer backs up. . . 

Buderus always seems to be higher quality than most other brands


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## Bulldog Plumbing

gtmechanic said:


> Weil Mclain for steam, Viessmann Vitodens for hot water, I refuse installation of non condensing boiler for forced hot water applications.


So your saying no matter what the situation is, its always a good idea to put a condensing boiler in?


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## pilot light

Viessmann Vitodens or Lochinvar Knights:thumbsup:


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## Nikolai

From an installation stand point I like Well McClain Ultras because you can run piping from the top, bottom, or both and the floor mounts still vent from the top. They make for a very clean system. I absolutely hate the floor mounted Lochinvars, they require a huge space for installation and the vent and CA attachments aren't rigid. Triangle Tubes are nice as well but again you can only pipe out of the bottom. As with Lochinvars, I don't like having to pipe down, and up around the side of the boiler to get to returns or supplies that may stub out above the boiler.


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## Joeypipes 23

Nikolai said:


> From an installation stand point I like Well McClain Ultras because you can run piping from the top, bottom, or both and the floor mounts still vent from the top. They make for a very clean system. I absolutely hate the floor mounted Lochinvars, they require a huge space for installation and the vent and CA attachments aren't rigid. Triangle Tubes are nice as well but again you can only pipe out of the bottom. As with Lochinvars, I don't like having to pipe down, and up around the side of the boiler to get to returns or supplies that may stub out above the boiler.


Just don't like the neoprene gaskets on them


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## Greenguy

Like the IBC or failing that the triangle tubes. The HTP mod con is also a decent system plus the ability to stack them on top of each other is a real space saver. 

Only system I don't like is the high efficient RBI's loads of crap, not a problem to install but requires constant servicing cleaning intakes and sensors when they are supposed to be running.


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## pilot light

all good valid points about the downsides of the lochinvar nikolai!


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## gtmechanic

*non condensing boiler*



Bulldog Plumbing said:


> So your saying no matter what the situation is, its always a good idea to put a condensing boiler in?


yes, it is always a good idea to install condensing boiler. With radiation installed for design temperature, boiler will work in non condensing mode only few weeks in a year. All other times with deltaT of 30- 40F and outdoor reset boiler will condense. Also, standard atmospheric cast iron boilers are rated for 82% efficiency only at 140 F outlet water temperature and 120F return water temperature. In real life if you will run CI boiler at 120F return temperature it will collapse in a first year of operation. so the most you are getting out of CI boiler is maybe 73% efficiency at 180F supply water temperature. taking out modulation and outdoor reset it is not even worth installing. I offer high efficiency condensing modulating boilers, and i know they will perform top notch. It is just my opinion


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## Bulldog Plumbing

gtmechanic said:


> yes, it is always a good idea to install condensing boiler. With radiation installed for design temperature, boiler will work in non condensing mode only few weeks in a year. All other times with deltaT of 30- 40F and outdoor reset boiler will condense. Also, standard atmospheric cast iron boilers are rated for 82% efficiency only at 140 F outlet water temperature and 120F return water temperature. In real life if you will run CI boiler at 120F return temperature it will collapse in a first year of operation. so the most you are getting out of CI boiler is maybe 73% efficiency at 180F supply water temperature. taking out modulation and outdoor reset it is not even worth installing. I offer high efficiency condensing modulating boilers, and i know they will perform top notch. It is just my opinion


Yeah but you can't always obtain your perfect deltaT if you are using baseboard or even radiators sometimes? Also what about the jobs where you can't vent the boiler out in a safe location? What about the jobs where your customer doesn't want to spend 12,000 for an installation or take care of their temperamental maintenance heavy boiler?


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## yoyoer

Ibc


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## rjbphd

yoyoer said:


> Ibc


 That's a crappy yoyo boiler without the proper intro..


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## JoshJ

*Ibc*

I've been putting in a few IBC boilers in the last few years, and have liked them so far for a condensing boiler.


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## Piper34

Just put in a pair of navian CH 180'combo units fist time they seem like a winner


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