# Tires



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Things have been tighter for my family with the new business. My personal truck has been needing tires for a while now. They are factory installed and have 85,000 miles on them. They only started showing severe wear about 5,000 ago, which is really great IMO.

We have only a couple of tire shops here, one of them is Les Schwab. I have a credit account there which makes tire replacement convenient and 90 days same as cash is always good. But I sit down and start looking at prices on truck tires and it just makes me feel disgusted.

My wife just put new tires on her altima which are relatively small passenger tires and it cost us over 600 dollars. The tires for my truck aren't that large, and they are 200 a piece for anything with a good mileage warranty on them.

Long story short, I found very comparable tires online through discount tire direct and ended up paying about 95 less a tire. That is huge. Granted Schwab does free mounting and balancing at their 200 a tire price point, but when I do the math...... 

4 tires at a total $413 (no tax, free shipping) plus $220 for schwab to mount and balance them, i'm still ahead by nearly a whole tire. I also know I can get someone to mount and balance them for much cheaper than that.


The only thing that might add up in the end is not having free flat repairs., but I rarely use that anyway. Maybe on the work truck, but not my personal. Going to try this out and see how it goes.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Don't you have a scrapyard nearby or in another city nearby? Every time I can get used parts I go there. 


I needed rims for the van, went to kenny u pull took them off a pick up and removed the old tires on them with their equipment. 10$ a rim.

Next I found tires there, 30$ each. Check often you will eventually get good tires cheap.

If you have room in your yard buy a beater truck for parts. If you are quick do like me I bought a 600$ truck brought it in the driveway or garage and striped it clean in 2-3 days. Store the parts in plastic containers, the engine and tranny on a rolling dolly and have the scrapyard pick the frame and you will get a little money back!


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

I like BF Goodrich all terrain tires, I have them on all my trucks and used them for over 35 years and never had any issues with them..2 things you dont cheap out on tires and brakes....saving a few bucks on cheap tires that wont hold the road during bad weather and you crash saves you nothing..


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

The bf Goodrich tires that are on my power wagon cost $1200. Thankfully they still have about 60k left on them. The six on my cube will need to be changed in about two to three years. Not looking forward to that bill when it comes due.

My first car, an ‘85 rabbit I bought 4 yokahama tires at $35 a pop, mounted and balanced.

One thing you should do, if you haven’t placed the order yet is ask if they’ll price match or come reasonably close. The worst they can say is no. And if you’re already a customer in good standing.... I have good long time customers that have fallen on hard times who I’ve helped out on pricing. 

For me it’s advertising. I tell them I’m doing them a favor because I know they’ll be giving my number out and I tell them my usual price, that’s what I charge, and I’m using their savings as advertisement money. People around here usually have respect in that way. If I read them differently, no discount, call someone else.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

Nothing personal, but you sound like the people we rail against on here. The interweb can undercut everyone but does that make it right?
I dont install customers equipment and I dont expect another business to install mine.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Nothing personal, but you sound like the people we rail against on here. The interweb can undercut everyone but does that make it right?
> I dont install customers equipment and I dont expect another business to install mine.


How do you deal with people who want to replace a roman tub faucet for example. Do you carry catalogs and upon catalogs and price sheets for faucets? What if the customer wants to see and touch it before buying?

I keep 3 style of kitchen faucets, one T&S and one lav for people who want a basic replacement. The rest like to get their own stuff.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Nothing personal, but you sound like the people we rail against on here. The interweb can undercut everyone but does that make it right?
> I dont install customers equipment and I dont expect another business to install mine.



I'm not bashing, I'm curious to see if it would work for me. I already know the answer for my area, people don't want to pay me for shopping,if it was free or 20$ they'd say yes of course!

Another thing came to mind. What about someone who wants to replace a toilet. Do you go to their house show some catalogs then go to the store pick it up and bring it? Will people actually pay 125$/hr for you to do all this so now their bill adds 300$+ more for that or you all this for real cheap or free? What if you unbox the toilet and they say hell no it looks bad?


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

PLUMB TIME said:


> Nothing personal, but you sound like the people we rail against on here. The interweb can undercut everyone but does that make it right?
> I dont install customers equipment and I dont expect another business to install mine.


No offense taken. But I do understand when people want to buy their own faucet because it's cheaper and they just don't have the means to get a top quality brand name through me. If I could afford to pay twice as much for the tires, the convenience would probably outweigh the legwork I am having to do, but right now I just am not busy enough, and I don't have the means.

I don't mind installing it for them. Heck, I don't make any money on the parts, but I don't have to warranty their crap either. If you have a problem with it, pay me to come tear it out and put something decent in.

All that said, I will refer to this very loosely as an internet retailer, because they do have shops scattered around the country, they just don't stock tires there. You order your tires from them, and drive your tires to their shop and they install it.

My personal truck doesn't even see the road much anymore anyway. It's about a mile and a half drive each way to get the kids to and from school. Occasional 10 miles to town if I need to relieve my wife of picking up the high school aged child.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango said:


> How do you deal with people who want to replace a roman tub faucet for example. Do you carry catalogs and upon catalogs and price sheets for faucets? What if the customer wants to see and touch it before buying?
> 
> I keep 3 style of kitchen faucets, one T&S and one lav for people who want a basic replacement. The rest like to get their own stuff.


When a customer of mine wants something a fixture “fancier” than rental grade I tell them to go to my supply house, look around the showroom, look through their catalogs, pick three different fixtures and I’ll get back with them on pricing. 

I see his point about diy vs. professional quality, but mechanic work vs. plumbing is similar in the fact if you do something wrong you or someone else can die, however, working on vehicles can be a hobby.... I don’t know of anyone who takes up plumbing as a hobby.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> When a customer of mine wants something a fixture “fancier” than rental grade I tell them to go to my supply house, look around the showroom, look through their catalogs, pick three different fixtures and I’ll get back with them on pricing.
> 
> I see his point about diy vs. professional quality, but mechanic work vs. plumbing is similar in the fact if you do something wrong you or someone else can die, however, working on vehicles can be a hobby.... I don’t know of anyone who takes up plumbing as a hobby.


I'm not sure to understand what you are saying. 

If I were to tell them to go to the supply house the only one I have an account with they will pay the same price as me. 
That's right no discount that I know of that's why I buy my stuff at HD. They only have a counter and parts in front. No faucet displays and anything fancy needs to be ordered.

If they are there they are going to ask the clerk what the price is and when I tell my price with a markup they will think I'm screwing them.


Second thing I noticed is one faucet manufacturer has the same faucet quality packaged in a plain box as opposed to full color box at HD. Same faucet different price but they always said they were different quality. I say bullcrap on this particular model!


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I will say this however, I will unlikely install cheap pfister faucet again or illegal chinese faucets.

I want to add another thing if I stopped installing customer supplied faucets or fixtures I would lose 99% of all those installs.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

At least in my area, the supply house quality is very different than say HD. The Moen adler and chateau are basically the same faucet. The Adler lav, box store garbage comes with a plastic pop up, where as the the chateau, supply house model comes with a good quality brass pop up assembly. 

When my customers go to the supply house to pick out a faucet if they ask about price they are given “list” price, which varies at different amounts. I’ve seen list at 100% more and I’ve seen it at only 5%. I always tell my customer to not pay attention to list and tell them what I just told you. Now don’t get me wrong, but I always mark up, but just being honest with them really builds trust instantly. I tell them to let the show room worker know they are working with me. Once they pick out what they like I get a call with their choices with list and cost. I write both numbers down and come up with a fair price in between the two.

Now don’t get me wrong, I have and do buy faucets from the box stores when they go on sale. I don’t install them in owner occupied houses, unless that’s what they want, but usually only in section 8 or slum lord houses as it’ll only get destroyed in a few months anyway. Not to mention the lifetime warranty is void from day one being in a rental or commercial building.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Over here there are no suggested list price. Same price for everyone except a discount for the big companies.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> When a customer of mine wants something a fixture “fancier” than rental grade I tell them to go to my supply house, look around the showroom, look through their catalogs, pick three different fixtures and I’ll get back with them on pricing.
> 
> I see his point about diy vs. professional quality, but mechanic work vs. plumbing is similar in the fact if you do something wrong you or someone else can die, however, working on vehicles can be a hobby.... I don’t know of anyone who takes up plumbing as a hobby.


you dont have to be licensed to work on vehicles, you do for plumbing..........:wink:


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> I'm not sure to understand what you are saying.
> 
> If I were to tell them to go to the supply house the only one I have an account with they will pay the same price as me.
> That's right no discount that I know of that's why I buy my stuff at HD. They only have a counter and parts in front. No faucet displays and anything fancy needs to be ordered.
> ...



I lay it right out to the customer..if I supply it I add $$ to what I pay as im responsible for the product till installed and if its broken or missing pieces I run and get them and eat my time, if you supply it your responsible for all that and paying for ALL my time to dick around with it...personally I dont want to supply any fixtures or faucets , its a lot less problems and issues and STRESS dealing with all that crap, its not worth the few bucks im making on it, I can make more in the time it tales to pick up and round up all the fixtures and faucets..let the home owner run like an idiot..


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Tango said:


> I will say this however, I will unlikely install cheap pfister faucet again or illegal chinese faucets.
> 
> I want to add another thing if I stopped installing customer supplied faucets or fixtures I would lose 99% of all those installs.


I’ll install supplied faucets with zero warranty.

Years ago, working for my former Master I had an Angie’s list customer who bought two delta faucets from Home Depot for a double vanity in the master bath. 

Now don’t get me wrong, I tell customers Moen is my first choice followed by delta.

One was fine, one the valve body leaked. We didn’t have time to sit and wait for her to run and exchange it. Booked a return trip for the next day. Installed the new replacement, that valve body leaked. Had to book her for a week and a half later because HD was out of that model.

Finally she got a good faucet. Handed her the bill which was more than twice our price for two provided and installed faucets. No warranty. She wasn’t happy, but paid.

She asked why so much, well, we had to come out three different times to install 4 faucets. Let her know that if we had provided the faucets and one was bad, very uncommon, but has happened, it would’ve been covered under our warranty.

“Well if I had known that I would have just bought your faucets!” Lesson learned, ya think?

Spend $300 to save $50.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> you dont have to be licensed to work on vehicles, you do for plumbing..........:wink:


Depends on where you are as to what you can legally do in plumbing. Once my Master retires, or I get tired of the older than dirt ******* and my apprenticeship ends, as long as I am not changing the plumbing system I’m good to go. I can and do replace pumps, sink faucets, cartridges.....


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> Depends on where you are as to what you can legally do in plumbing. Once my Master retires, or I get tired of the older than dirt ******* and my apprenticeship ends, as long as I am not changing the plumbing system I’m good to go. I can and do replace pumps, sink faucets, cartridges.....


each area is different...technically in one main big town you need a plumbing permit to change a faucet or toilet, and one of the contractors that does alot of work for the town, they have programs for seniors and low income, I had to pull permits to change a freaking kitchen faucet, it took longer to get the paperwork and permit and more $$ than just changing out a faucet, so an unlicensed person cannot change faucets..I never would waste my time or customers $$ on a stupid permit for that, its just revenue building for the town...


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> I never would waste my time or customers $$ on a stupid permit for that, its just revenue building for the town...


And the town is stupid for requiring it because it invites fly by night hacks to come do unlicensed work for super cheap.

They should allow minor label permits for stuff like that if they are going to require it. Buy a book of them for 100 bucks, and when you change a faucet, mail in the stub and if they want to inspect it, they can make arrangements with the homeowner. If not, they got their 3 or 5 dollars or whatever the F it costs. 

Dumb.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> each area is different...technically in one main big town you need a plumbing permit to change a faucet or toilet, and one of the contractors that does alot of work for the town, they have programs for seniors and low income, I had to pull permits to change a freaking kitchen faucet, it took longer to get the paperwork and permit and more $$ than just changing out a faucet, so an unlicensed person cannot change faucets..I never would waste my time or customers $$ on a stupid permit for that, its just revenue building for the town...


100% correct! Cash cow for the city! Lansing, the capital and “biggest little city/capital” I’ve ever seen is all about revenue!

Say we pull a $120 permit for a heater replacement. Our plumbing inspector shows up and sees fairly new looking steps leading up to the porch. At this moment he stops and opens up his laptop. “There’s no building permit here.” Sends the building inspector an email. On the way through the house sees a remodelers plate and a single handle in the shower. Looks for a permit, nope. “You’ll need to open it up and pull a permit.” Lav has an old chrome s trap. “Bring it up to code.” $20 add on permit wise.

Basement time.... looks at the heater we just put in. Green sticker. Looks over at the electric panel which is obviously original to the 1950’s, BUT, there is romex from the 80’s for who knows what. Looks at his computer, no permit, emails the electrical inspector. 

Next he notices the basement windows have been replaced with solid glass blocks. Another note to the building inspector. The furnace from the 70’s has no sticker. Looks like one was peeled off, but there’s no record of a permit. Email to the hvac inspector.

I wonder why I really don’t want to get my Master’s license here.

Couple of years ago we did an ADA bathroom about an hour and a half from here each way. My Master had to pay the fee to register his license and overall permit. $60 total. In Lansing it would be close to $500 for us plus whatever our inspector sees and writes up for the other trades.

No BS! One of my LL’s had to spend $30k on a $6k rental. Granted the plumbing was all f’d up, but no leaks, everything drained just fine, but against code. I can see fixing it, especially as a drain cleaner. The rest was BS and just a money grab by the city.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

So back to tires I guess......

I noticed a screw in my pickup tire, pretty darn close to the wall. My mechanic will fix it for me. 

Noticed a nail in my Master’s cube tire, back tire. He’s waiting. Need new tires before winter anyhow.

Sorry for going off topic Alan...


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

OpenSights said:


> 100% correct! Cash cow for the city! Lansing, the capital and “biggest little city/capital” I’ve ever seen is all about revenue!
> 
> Say we pull a $120 permit for a heater replacement. Our plumbing inspector shows up and sees fairly new looking steps leading up to the porch. At this moment he stops and opens up his laptop. “There’s no building permit here.” Sends the building inspector an email. On the way through the house sees a remodelers plate and a single handle in the shower. Looks for a permit, nope. “You’ll need to open it up and pull a permit.” Lav has an old chrome s trap. “Bring it up to code.” $20 add on permit wise.
> 
> ...



While I understand the need for a city to bring in revenue, that is just fking ridiculous.

The guy sounds like a scumbag.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

There is usually some thread drift, but the orig. poster was talking about truck tires. This thread got off track.


Back on topic; when I was younger, around 27 or so, I used to buy used tires for my personal vehicle which was a 1975 Ford Econoline van at the time. This was back in the mid 1990's. The used tire place was in a rougher neighborhood. Those tires I believe were $15 a piece.


Now, that I work for myself and business {thank God} is doing alright, I don't have to worry about how much a tire costs. Plus, I'm able to give to others since money isn't as tight as it was back then.


Alan, keep plugging along and after business picks up more, you will have enough money to pay for stuff like this with money to spare.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

When I first returned to plumbing and drain cleaning I worked out of a Chevy express van. Then I got a job and worked out of a cube. When I decided to start my business I figured I’d save some gas money and just buy a van... after all I worked out of one for years.

That awesome idea lasted less than a week! A few months later I bought my cube.

I ended up selling the van for cheap to a friend who had no transportation. I told him I had one condition. He needed to replace the tires before winter because they were bald. He went to a well known new and used tire shop and bought a decent set of used tires.

Less than a month later he was driving home on the highway after dropping his kids off at their mom’s when one of the front tires blew inward toward the engine. He ended up crossing the median, clipping the rear end of an on coming truck, and rolled into the ditch. IIRC, he was in the hospital for three days.

I’ve bought used tires in the past, but never again after my friend’s experience.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tommy plumber said:


> Alan, keep plugging along and after business picks up more, you will have enough money to pay for stuff like this with money to spare.


Thanks for the encouragement. Things are already looking busier even during slow weeks. Every time I get a new call from someone I don't know I think of it as gaining at least two customers. At least one person they know is going to hear about me. Today I got a call back that ended up being a loose T&P on a water heater that they supplied. I installed the tank about a month ago and it just started oozing water from the T&P access hole on the top of the tank a few days ago. I shut it down and went to put a wrench on it to loosen it up and it felt finger tight. It definitely wasn't that loose when I installed it, so it must have been barely wrench tight and expansion and contraction loosened it up enough to ooze water.

Anyway long story short, her boyfriend wants me to come to his place and do some work in his master bath now. 

Nothing really happened much last week, but I did two jobs friday and one saturday with the promise of more work from this dude, so not a complete bust even though realistically I need more.

For the record I don't mind the thread drift. I like to think of these topics as adaptive discussions.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Alan said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. Things are already looking busier even during slow weeks. Every time I get a new call from someone I don't know I think of it as gaining at least two customers. At least one person they know is going to hear about me. Today I got a call back that ended up being a loose T&P on a water heater that they supplied. I installed the tank about a month ago and it just started oozing water from the T&P access hole on the top of the tank a few days ago. I shut it down and went to put a wrench on it to loosen it up and it felt finger tight. It definitely wasn't that loose when I installed it, so it must have been barely wrench tight and expansion and contraction loosened it up enough to ooze water.
> 
> Anyway long story short, her boyfriend wants me to come to his place and do some work in his master bath now.
> 
> ...


Repeat and referral is the best form of advertisement! The issue of starting out is getting your name and reputation out there without pulling a dick move on your previous employer.

I’ve been blessed in that regard. 

Become buddies with people from other trades. Referral with other trades can be good and bad. Refer the wrong guy to your customer and you might loose that customer. But if you refer the right one and you just gain more loyalty.

I was referred by a maintenance guy I’ve worked with when his niece had a drain issue. Fixed it, treated her fair and respect unlike the last plumber. A month later when her dad was on his deathbed I got a call from her mom because her main line was backing up. Their neighborhood has it’s own Facebook page. I have probably 20-30 customers out there and have made a ton of money over the last two years because of that Facebook community.... and it all started with a kid flushing a toilet paper roll holder. Both the niece and her mom have not only friends, but family.

Every job is an opportunity for free advertisement! Some people just look for cheap. Some people look for quality over price. The ones who look for quality usually socialize with like minded. 

One thing I learned from my Master is how to use your labor as advertising as well. He has, and I have my own customers who we work for frequently and we get a ton of referrals from. I was out working earlier this week. Got a call from a very good, long time customer. Sweet elderly lady, can’t tell you how much work she’s sent my way over the last almost 4 years. Her toilet seat had become loose. She is in her 80’s and her health has been declining. I told her I’d be there in a couple of hours as I had one more and she was on my way home.

While I was tightening her seat the fill valve went off. Her flapper was shot. I replaced it and let her know she was all set. She asked how much she owed me. Nothing! Advertisement. She’s the type of customer that sets an appointment later in the week and greats you with a plate of cookies or if it’s around the holidays a pie of some kind. With her health making home backed goods has to be a real task! I think still being able to accomplish things like that is more for her morale.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> So back to tires I guess......
> 
> I noticed a screw in my pickup tire, pretty darn close to the wall. My mechanic will fix it for me.
> 
> ...


this is the best for plugging nails and screws in tires, I buy the made in USA plugs and they are a permanent repair, works great to patch with wheel on the truck.. https://www.amazon.com/Tooluxe-5000...&qid=1538878193&sr=8-4&keywords=tire+plug+kit


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> this is the best for plugging nails and screws in tires, I buy the made in USA plugs and they are a permanent repair, works great to patch with wheel on the truck.. https://www.amazon.com/Tooluxe-5000...&qid=1538878193&sr=8-4&keywords=tire+plug+kit


I bartered with them. Cabled a urinal line for them. I get an oil change with provided Mobil 1 synthetic and filter. They install replacement (provided) running boards and (provided) both front and rear bumper. Oh, and fix my tire.

I’d rather spend that time with my family or my time billing.

My Master has this odd saying:

“It’s cool to be a plumber.”

Some might say it’s sh!ty to a drain cleaner... but this trade will be around until people don’t drink water, pee or poop. 


Took me some time in life to figure out what the best trade in life would be. Want a burger, you got fast food. Can’t flush the toilet? Going to cost you just a tad more than that burger.

Sorry just in a good mood after today’s news....


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## Dpeckplb (Sep 20, 2013)

I run BFG All Terrains 10 ply on my personal truck. When I put them on they were 270$ installed. A buddy put on knockoff BFG that were 230$ but are 3 ply, make a difference to most no, but I'm not going to pull a 16,000 trailer on a 3 ply tire.
My cube on the other hand the 19.5 puts me into a truck tire and here in the great white north those are $400+


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