# Trimble layout



## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

This is the perfect scenario for deck layout with the Trimble. Wide open and no one on it! This is my first time solo after training. Roof deck.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

How long was the training? Are you finding it user friendly? One man operation?


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## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

I have trained alongside our Trimble guy off and on for the past 6months. It's a much more efficient way to do layout. Faster too.

Yes it can be a one man operation. I like having a helper mark my stick and write location details, makes the whole process quicker.


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

Nice!!! I've used the 2 guy hilti system and liked it. Recently our company switched to the one man hilti which I haven't used. I hear those trimbles are awesome!!! Nice breeze, San Diego weather, one man trimble station. U got er made!


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

If you have questions let me know. I've Trimble some decent sized jobs. I'm no expert, but I've got a little knowledge. 


Lock it up at night! I lost one. But it kinda wasn't my fault.


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

What type of sleeves do you use? Pro vent, so vent system?


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## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

yes sir, I can not complain!


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## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

Flyout95 said:


> If you have questions let me know. I've Trimble some decent sized jobs. I'm no expert, but I've got a little knowledge.


Thursday I have to shoot in a deck thats 10' lower then my vantage point and setup spot and the GC wont be putting survey down there. Therefore ill need to triangulate the machine with given control up top, then go to the lower level and create my own reference points to set the machine off of. Move the station down to that level and shoot in my remaining points off my control. Ive only seen our guy do this, and took detailed notes. So we'll see...



moonapprentice said:


> What type of sleeves do you use? Pro vent, so vent system?


Well this is a pandeck, so were limited to metal cans since we have to burn out the holes. Besides that this job is not spec'd out for Sovent. 

The highrise I'm on is using the Pro-Set sleeves and we are also using a designed Sovent system. The Pro-Set sleeves are a pain because their a fire rated sleeve system, and they only have about an 1/8'' of space between pipe and sleeve. When they come out at an angle that really puts us in a bad spot for the pipe coming thru.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

When you make those points, drill self tapers and use that as your points. So chose where your points will be, drill with tappers, or if concrete drill a hole. (I name my points after beer.) Make more than you need, cause odds are you'll need them. 

After you mark your points, add them with the machine. Make sure you check the store data box.

If you are using multiple drawings per floor, add all the points to each drawing right away while the floor is wide open.


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## Grimmeute (May 8, 2012)

I'm a commercial plumber and would like to know what do you use a trimble for? What are you laying out with it?


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Grimmeute said:


> I'm a commercial plumber and would like to know what do you use a trimble for? What are you laying out with it?


 they are laying out everything.


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## Grimmeute (May 8, 2012)

Damn I have never seen that used for plumbing here in Tulsa. I want to know more but not finding much about it on the net. 
So you can like lay out say, the CL of all fixtures, stub ups, ect?
Using what? Laptop and CAD?


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## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

Grimmeute said:


> Damn I have never seen that used for plumbing here in Tulsa. I want to know more but not finding much about it on the net.
> So you can like lay out say, the CL of all fixtures, stub ups, ect?
> Using what? Laptop and CAD?


The Trimble is also like a total station, you might some more info about that on the net.

The machine can layout whatever you put into the tablet file. So if you have CL for fixtures then yes. But on a larger scale it is used in bigger terms,like laying out all of your sleeves for stub ups on a big deck with many. I.E. we have used it to layout hotels, highrise, parking structures and business buildings. 

Once you have uploaded the blue prints with all the sleeves and hangers you want to layout, you then set the machine up on the job plot. The machine uses the surveyed control points on the job to triangulate its position within the deck. You as the operator will take the pole with the prism on top and attached field tablet with uploaded points to the surveyed marks and communicate with the robot effectively telling it where it sits on the deck and job plot. Once that is done and you start your layout, the machine will tell you move 5" left and 2-1/4" up...so on and so on until you are directly over your CL of sleeve or hanger. 

Thats sort of the jist, yet so little to how effective it really is. Also around 40K.

Yes the files are done in CAD and we have a team in house that takes care of that side.


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## Grimmeute (May 8, 2012)

Thank you Gasket that was helpful you explained it just fine I understand.
Will look into this I'm always looking for faster ways to do things.
Thought I was a smart one when I figured out I could Lay out all the underground and storm, using my laptop and some CAD drawing just from a centerline of a pier, 6-7 years ago. It was a new Hospital here.
This thing is even better it sounds.


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## Mykeeb33 (Mar 6, 2015)

You can layout everything. All pipe penetrations, floor drains, clean outs, and all hanger locations. You'll need good CAD guys though. If the data entered is wrong, you'll be in trouble.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

gasket said:


> The Trimble is also like a total station, you might some more info about that on the net.
> 
> The machine can layout whatever you put into the tablet file. So if you have CL for fixtures then yes. But on a larger scale it is used in bigger terms,like laying out all of your sleeves for stub ups on a big deck with many. I.E. we have used it to layout hotels, highrise, parking structures and business buildings.
> 
> ...


This is cheating,I do it ole fashioned way:laughing: plus I think core drilling is faster in the long run,after slab is poured,go in and lay her out,then hire a core drilling co. To drill your holes:yes:


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

sparky said:


> This is cheating,I do it ole fashioned way:laughing: plus I think core drilling is faster in the long run,after slab is poured,go in and lay her out,then hire a core drilling co. To drill your holes:yes:



Sometimes you are not permitted to core drill. Or they make you sleeve everything and can only core drill the missed or incorrect penetrations. Then you have to xray or radar prior to drilling. Very expensive. But you really don't want hit a tension rod with your core machine.


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## Rando (Dec 31, 2012)

sparky said:


> This is cheating,I do it ole fashioned way:laughing: plus I think core drilling is faster in the long run,after slab is poured,go in and lay her out,then hire a core drilling co. To drill your holes:yes:


 
I take it you don't do a lot of work with post tension slabs? If you don't lay out your sleeves and install them before rebar and cable you are absolutely fawked. 
Don't get me wrong, I am probably the most old fashioned opposed to change old guy on here, but laying out with Total Station is so much faster than the old way it's not even funny. 
I use it for underground too. I have them mark the ditch and riser points. After it's in and back filled I have them come back and check risers again in case they got pushed around during back fill.


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## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

Rando said:


> I use it for underground too. I have them mark the ditch and riser points. After it's in and back filled I have them come back and check risers again in case they got pushed around during back fill.


See here Is where I'd like to streamline the process even more. Since were already saving so much time and labor using the machine. How can we avoid coming back to shoot in the same points again? I understand there critical, especially underground risers. There has to be a way.


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## TXPlumbBob (Dec 13, 2013)

Did you say the system was 40K? If so I could see where a entrepreneur could contract out to smaller companies that cannot afford the system but would be willing to save by hiring someone else to do it.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

TXPlumbBob said:


> Did you say the system was 40K? If so I could see where a entrepreneur could contract out to smaller companies that cannot afford the system but would be willing to save by hiring someone else to do it.


The robot, tablet, reflector, and batteries are 40k. The initial investment with software, training, and equipment is over 250k.

The last shop I was with did about 20mil a year in contracts, and rather than invest, sold.


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## Mykeeb33 (Mar 6, 2015)

I didn't like it for underground. Piles of dirt would block the receiver, and it was too easy to lose the marks. I worked for a company that was full mechanical. (HVAC, plumbing & heating) we would run into jurisdictional problems with the two differant unions. The company obviously wanted to layout everything at the same time. We worked it out.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

As mentioned earlier, the weak link in this system is often the data entered. You can't just go to Craig's List to find desk jockeys who can crank out good, accurate data. The big contractors in my area have found it's better to teach CAD to guys with field experience then plumbing, HVAC and electrical to people with a software background.


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## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

Plumbus said:


> As mentioned earlier, the weak link in this system is often the data entered. You can't just go to Craig's List to find desk jockeys who can crank out good, accurate data. The big contractors in my area have found it's better to teach CAD to guys with field experience then plumbing, HVAC and electrical to people with a software background.


This is a good point. Our CAD manager was previously a foreman looking for a way to run his job more efficiently, self teaching himself to run CAD. The rest is history. To your point, yes it is essential to have someone with field experience to navigate the realistic application of plumbing design into the model. 

With how much our field foreman depend on him for layout his past experience really lends itself to how well the job initially gets off the ground. I'd say our CAD department is critical to each job.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

"I'd say our CAD department is critical to each job."
_Sine qua non_

I have more than one acquaintance who has realized he can extend his productivity and employment by learning CAD and migrating into the office.


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## TXPlumbBob (Dec 13, 2013)

I worked for a shop that probably did 20mil a year and we did not have anything like that. I did a project for them that the restroom batteries were on radius walls. Trying to layout a round wall on metal decking was challenging enough then the concrete crew wiped out all the cans with their hoses. So THEY core drilled all the holes then.


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## TXPlumbBob (Dec 13, 2013)

What is "sine qua non"? Hopefully not "no **** Sherlock"!


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## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

TXPlumbBob said:


> What is "sine qua non"? Hopefully not "no **** Sherlock"!


Indispensable, essential.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Originally Posted by *TXPlumbBob*  
_What is "sine qua non"? Hopefully not "no **** Sherlock"! _



gasket said:


> Indispensable, essential.


Which is worse, being pedantic or insulting?


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## gasket (Sep 6, 2012)

> Which is worse, being pedantic or insulting?


Im lost. I didn't know what the phrase meant either, so I looked it up. The quote sounds like an agreement of what I said. Wasn't thinking there was an obvious insult there...? But the clouds fly high above me.


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## Mykeeb33 (Mar 6, 2015)

Our project manager discovered he could email the job files to India. They did the point plotting for less then half of our in house price!


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Mykeeb33 said:


> Our project manager discovered he could email the job files to India. They did the point plotting for less then half of our in house price!


That's awesome! They are gonna sub the onsite work to Mexicans on the next job. Look how much we saved!


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