# 20 lb grease trap question? any FL guys?



## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

I have a client that is an over 50 trailer park. Last year the remodeled the clubhouse they use for an occaisional pot luck dinner after a shuffle board tourney.

The reason they called me was the health department is making them put in a three compartment sink with a small 20 pound grease trap on the floor under neath it. I did a ton of restaurants years ago and memory serves correct we used to pipe this setup by tieing the three compartments together with 2" pvc or copper with a 2" clean out on the end ,next into a 2" trap, followed by a flow control tee with vented out the top. Sometimes depending on the engineer we would put a vent in front of the flow control tee and tie it into the vent coming out of the flow control tee. After the flow control tee we would tie direct into the unit. On the outlet we would 90 into a floor sink etc... via air gap. I usually angle cut the pipe above the floor receptacle. I would post a drawing but I do not have scan capabilities.

My dilemma is the health official wants the air gap between the sink and 2"inlet of the poly interceptor. In other words he wants me to hang a trap off of the 2"inlet of this poly interceptor. It doesn't seem to make sense running a two inch continuous waste into a flow control device and dumping it into a 2" trap. 

Code booksays it is up to the health official but it also says installations shall be in accordance with mfg specs. MFG specs call for the way I described it above. They contradict the health official. Anyone?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm not sure why you would indirect waste a grease interceptor at all. We have ours hard connected here. The only things that are indirectly wasted are prep sinks and things of that nature.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Code says any sink involved in food handling has to be indirect waste. No way I could get away with it. This particular job is under the health dept. and the official is the one who wants the air gap.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> I'm not sure why you would indirect waste a grease interceptor at all. We have ours hard connected here. The only things that are indirectly wasted are prep sinks and things of that nature.


IPC required 3 compartments to be indirect also. I would possibly go to the top of the inspectors food chain to follow the mfg's intallation preferences


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

The problem, IMO, with indirect draining on the inlet the grease trap is the G T more than likely won't handle the flow when the sink is drained and will dump on the floor.

The problem, IMO, with indirect draining the outlet of the grease trap is the the odor associated with the water that sits in a G T. When you drain the sink, that foul smelling water may get you a complaint or two.

IL allows for direct connections on the inlet and outlet provided it's floor drain protected. 

But hey, do it how they want.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Colgar said:


> The problem, IMO, with indirect draining on the inlet the grease trap is the G T more than likely won't handle the flow when the sink is drained and will dump on the floor.
> 
> The problem, IMO, with indirect draining the outlet of the grease trap is the the odor associated with the water that sits in a G T. When you drain the sink, that foul smelling water may get you a complaint or two.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of the above particularly about the odor on indirect. But the code here isn't my issue. Mine is this fine health official is trying to re write the rules and dicktate. I am trying to avoid going over his head and having a lifetime of headaches with a pissed off health inspector because I went over his head. 

More than anything it just doesn't seem like it would work mechanically. I never dumped 2" indirectly into 2" LOL.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Sounds like they need to decide if this sink they want installed is a dish washing or, food handling sink...

Trying to make a combination is gonna get ugly fo sho...:laughing:

I predict water on the floor...


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Sounds like they need to decide if this sink they want installed is a dish washing or, food handling sink...
> 
> Trying to make a combination is gonna get ugly fo sho...:laughing:
> 
> I predict water on the floor...


 This is exactly what I was trying to get it. A "prep" sink is for preparing food and needs to be indirectly wasted. A washing sink is for cleaning dishes and can be directly connected but has to run through an interceptor. You're trying to do two different things and it won't work well. This is why they have different sinks for different purposes in a commercial kitchen.


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

That may be true, but the IPC still requires a 3 compartment to be inderect waste to a floor sink. It's in case of the off chance that one of the minimum wage workers in a commercial kitchen doesn't care about doing things right:whistling2:. If there is also a prep sink, maybe the inspector (having jurisdiction) would allow the 3 compartment to direct connect.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

RW Plumbing said:


> This is exactly what I was trying to get it. A "prep" sink is for preparing food and needs to be indirectly wasted. A washing sink is for cleaning dishes and can be directly connected but has to run through an interceptor. You're trying to do two different things and it won't work well. This is why they have different sinks for different purposes in a commercial kitchen.


I agree, but that arguement won't fly. I heard that arguement many years ago between our foreman and the inspector. The inspector said storage and handleing of food included pots and pans and if we wanted our inspection in his county it would be indirect waste. 

The code reads that it shall be at the discretion of the health official. The next sentence reads that it shall be installed according to mfg specifications. I am simply going to get the code book out with the instructions and ask him to clarify. I suppose I could even request a letter from him telling me to not follow specs and do it his way. Prolly get that when pigs fly....


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

It's a bit more cut and dry in the WI state code.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I would get it in writing that they want the sink ran indirect to the interceptor. That way, when they go to drain that sink and it immediately overflows out of the indirect waste receptor because of the grease interceptors flow limiter, they can be liable and not you.

Make sure to make a youtube video of the first sink dump :laughing:


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Protech said:


> I would get it in writing that they want the sink ran indirect to the interceptor. That way, when they go to drain that sink and it immediately overflows out of the indirect waste receptor because of the grease interceptors flow limiter, they can be liable and not you.
> 
> Make sure to make a youtube video of the first sink dump :laughing:


No video capabilities so you will have to rely on my creative literary skills.

I am simply going hold someone accountable either the health inspector or the HO association if all else fails simply request engineered drawings either way every minute I spend on this is going to be billed. Yesterday I slammed the brakes on one of the old fellars when he tried to play old school business gunslinger. 

He told me I could pipe it the way I felt it should be done but I would be responsible if it needed to be re done for the health inspector. I politely made it clear I wasn't willing to be in a position of liability. 

I certainly care about my customer, but not enough to to take ownership of HO Assoc.'s battle. If I cannot do it per mfg...... I walk. I see a wood pile being born out of this mess and I am not willing to be at the bottom.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Here in Pasco the waste has to be indirect. With the built in flow regulator if you fill all the bowls and pull the plugs, the drain will overflow and the county health inspector does not care. A way I took care of that problem was to install a test cap on the end of the sink waste and drill a 3/4" hole in the center that. Not that it is a good idea, but it works..


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

ESPinc said:


> Here in Pasco the waste has to be indirect. With the built in flow regulator if you fill all the bowls and pull the plugs, the drain will overflow and the county health inspector does not care. A way I took care of that problem was to install a test cap on the end of the sink waste and drill a 3/4" hole in the center that. Not that it is a good idea, but it works..


I think I would go with a female adapter with a hole drilled in the cleanout plug. That way, if you get a huge log of grease or somthing, you can remove the cleanout plug from cleaning.

Good idea though.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

ESPinc said:


> Here in Pasco the waste has to be indirect. With the built in flow regulator if you fill all the bowls and pull the plugs, the drain will overflow and the county health inspector does not care. A way I took care of that problem was to install a test cap on the end of the sink waste and drill a 3/4" hole in the center that. Not that it is a good idea, but it works..


My arguement is they are breaking there own laws asking us to deviate from mfg specs. LOL Not to mention I have a 2" inlet on this plastic POS so essentially this guy wants me to hang a 2" trap off the inlet and slap a bunch of bushings on the trap to get a 4" hub drain. How rediculous is that ??????. ROFLMAO Prolly tip the plastic POS grease trap over.

I wondered if a backwater valve before the flow control tee would satisfy this guy and solve the problem.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

I hear what your sayin', been having to do it that way for a couple years now. Can not get a permit showing(Drawing) it any other way. BTW. it is hard to find extra space to make it work too!! Oh ya, and you will look like an ass when the customer complains about the overflow problem because of limited room to make it work. They don't want to be told that the floor will need cut out for the grease trap and the cost will be $$$$'s. I explain to the owner all the worse things up front and what is going to happen. 

Wait until they start making older establishments upgrade to current code on grease traps, that is what has been going on in my area for the last year and a half. It is killing some, but it does help my little account.. 

For example: a Ruby Tuesdays that has been in business for 10 years and was approved at the time for the 1500 gallon grease tank it had and maintained by-weekly(had records) was told to bring the tank size up to code according to number of seats allowed in this place. According to the formula to calculate size, we ended up installing 3- 1250 tanks along with that 1500 existing for a total capacity of 5100gal. This is overkill!!!

They are going after all businesses here, and in some situations its killing them.


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## john_mccormack (Feb 27, 2010)

*literary skills*

_health official is trying to re write the rules and dicktate_

The health official "dicktates". Haha... Now that's funny...


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

I spoke with the health official today. He was actually pretty cool I explained my dilemma and he allowed me to directly pipe into the unit per mfg specs and put the air gap at the floor recepticle after the trap. Almost brought a tear to my eye when a government official actually listened and agreed with me. I forgot what it felt like. A special moment indeed....

LOL now comes part 2 my inspection is Thursday,I will personally give this guy a double thumbs up if he remembers our phone call and passes it... fingers crossed.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Our crazy little town just served all the food establishments in town notice that they are all required to have grease interseptors installed by Jan.1, or be shut down. Sounds good for me, right? On the notice they quoted examples of interseptor prices! They have told the public that they should be able to get one of the plastic jobbers for $160.00. So now we will have this notice shoved in our faces everytime we quote a price. How dumb can public officials be?


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## plumbpro (Mar 10, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Our crazy little town just served all the food establishments in town notice that they are all required to have grease interseptors installed by Jan.1, or be shut down. Sounds good for me, right? On the notice they quoted examples of interseptor prices! They have told the public that they should be able to get one of the plastic jobbers for $160.00. So now we will have this notice shoved in our faces everytime we quote a price.
> *How dumb can public officials be?*


Only the dumbest need apply, so pretty dumb IMO


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Our crazy little town just served all the food establishments in town notice that they are all required to have grease interseptors installed by Jan.1, or be shut down. Sounds good for me, right? On the notice they quoted examples of interseptor prices! They have told the public that they should be able to get one of the plastic jobbers for $160.00. So now we will have this notice shoved in our faces everytime we quote a price. How dumb can public officials be?


 
Hahaha. You can't get a lid seal kit for much under 160.00 Sorry Rick, looks like you'll have fun with that one. I don't mark up material much if at all, and I would just show the customer a copy of my invoice in that case.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

That might cover the permit fees, are they using this formula to calculate tank sizes:

S X GS X (HR /12) X LF = Effective capacity of grease interceptor in Gallons​ 
S = Number of Seats in dining Area
GS = Gallons of waste per seat (use 25 gallons for restaurants with china dishes and/or automatic dishwasher. Use 10 gallons for restaurants with paper or baskets and no dishwasher) 
HR = Number of hours restaurant is open. 
LF = Loading Factor (use 2.00 interstate highway: 2.50 other freeways: 1.25 recreational area: 1.00 main highway: 0.75 other highway)
​If only calculating by 3 comp. sink, I have yet to see a GT less than $ 450 then you have to add labor/material.

Those food establishments are in for a rude awaking, looks as if you will be having a great year!!!



slickrick said:


> Our crazy little town just served all the food establishments in town notice that they are all required to have grease interseptors installed by Jan.1, or be shut down. Sounds good for me, right? On the notice they quoted examples of interseptor prices! They have told the public that they should be able to get one of the plastic jobbers for $160.00. So now we will have this notice shoved in our faces everytime we quote a price. How dumb can public officials be?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ESPinc said:


> That might cover the permit fees, are they using this formula to calculate tank sizes:
> 
> 
> S X GS X (HR /12) X LF = Effective capacity of grease interceptor in Gallons​
> ...


They are not using any formula. A grease trap, is a grease trap. 20# fit all


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

slickrick said:


> Our crazy little town just served all the food establishments in town notice that they are all required to have grease interseptors installed by Jan.1, or be shut down. Sounds good for me, right? On the notice they quoted examples of interseptor prices! They have told the public that they should be able to get one of the plastic jobbers for $160.00. So now we will have this notice shoved in our faces everytime we quote a price. How dumb can public officials be?


 
Just be glad that you dont have an industrial pretreatment division, I am sure you know him, I think he is a good guy, but  he is strict.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> Just be glad that you dont have an industrial pretreatment division, I am sure you know him, I think he is a good guy, but  he is strict.


Longview has always been extreme. Our guy is a nut.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

ESPinc said:


> That might cover the permit fees, are they using this formula to calculate tank sizes:
> 
> S X GS X (HR /12) X LF = Effective capacity of grease interceptor in Gallons​
> S = Number of Seats in dining Area
> ...


These food establishments will simply go under. I don't blame them. What a joke.... Must be either Jeb Bush or Charlie Christ when he switched sides of the fence and loved up on Barack's shoulder.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I received my first call today. We will see how this is going to work out. Who is going to clean these little suckers? These owners are going to love it. I bet the city didn't mention that in the notice. I can't wait to actually read the notice.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

When you get the service call to clean it, just flush it down the toilet:thumbsup:

(Joke)


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> When you get the service call to clean it, just flush it down the toilet:thumbsup:
> 
> (Joke)


No, really. How do you think they will dispose of it? Dump it out back?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Someone post me a link to the plastic interseptors you have installed ,and some feedback.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

The only plastic one I have installed was in a concession stand, it was disposable. I have installed a few metal ones made by watts, I even got away with putting a 6 gallon watts in a do nut shop:blink:. Its amazing what the city will let you get away with when you come to their office everyday speaking :chinese:. So I have had no complaints about the 6 gal watts, probably cost way more than a plactic one though. I think morrison is where I got them:sad:.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> The only plastic one I have installed was in a concession stand, it was disposable. I have installed a few metal ones made by watts, I even got away with putting a 6 gallon watts in a do nut shop:blink:. Its amazing what the city will let you get away with when you come to their office everyday speaking :chinese:. So I have had no complaints about the 6 gal watts, probably cost way more than a plactic one though. I think morrison is where I got them:sad:.


My customers are already calling. We should have been installing interceptors for yrs. Now they come up with the 20 gal. fit all, and are telling them they can put the grease in the dumpster. But you have to be a plumber to clean it.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I somehow doubt the customers will call you to throw it away, so they are allowing these disposable traps in all the restaurants even the bigger ones.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I read your post wrong throw away the grase not the trap:thumbup:


So how long is volunteer list at you shop for cleaning the traps.:whistling2:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> I somehow doubt the customers will call you to throw it away, so they are allowing these disposable traps in all the restaurants even the bigger ones.


Yes. It drives me crazy, the logic around here.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

We had a plumbing advisory board that I was a member of. I crossed the city too many times and they abolished the board.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

slickrick said:


> We had a plumbing advisory board that I was a member of. I crossed the city too many times and they abolished the board.


 
Thats:laughing:


who if anyone is going to inforce the maintenance of these grease traps


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

easttexasplumb said:


> I read your post wrong throw away the grase not the trap:thumbup:
> 
> 
> So how long is volunteer list at you shop for cleaning the traps.:whistling2:


If I could fernco them in, I might be able to throw the trap away cheaper than cleaning them. I am not going to clean grease traps.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I don't even want to open the lid


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

We've done some of these in the past:

http://www.schierproducts.com/grease.html


3 options for outlet location is nice

They seemed to be of decent quality


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Colgar, Are these anywhere near the $188.00 my city published?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

slickrick said:


> Colgar, Are these anywhere near the $188.00 my city published?


I just put one in a few months back and NO there are not anywhere close to $188 bucks. I'll get the price in a few and let you know. :thumbsup:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Patg 2025 $565.00


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

It's like everything else in this town. They come up with crap and I have to do battle with them. I read the notification quickly yesterday and I don't remember it being backed up by an ordinance. I am going to make a copy today and load my guns, I know I will end up before the city council. We have larger restaurants that have septic tanks for grease traps, and we are constantly dealing with blockage. Do they have the nads to make them upgrade? They are going to have to when I am finished with them. I am a champion of justice by nature, and I hate it. When this type situation occurs, everyone wants me do do something, then the sparks start flying and I am left standing alone. I have not lost a battle yet. That is where the nickname slickrick comes from.


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

http://www.ashlandpolytraps.com/

This is the one I installed for the HO association that started this thread. It is a total POS. Be prepared to master stuffing ten pounds of bologna into a one pound sack. If you are quoting flat rate add one hour . 

Update- I passed my health inspection. I give my health inspector a double thumbs up for actually remembering our conversation and he complimented my work. This guy was nice and really willing to work with me. He prolly won't last long in today's government.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

PP, What is the cost of that unit?


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

slickrick said:


> PP, What is the cost of that unit?


Rick I am not sure, but if you do a google search of the unit you are interested in purchasing. Prices should pop up and about a dozen suppliers of the unit will pop up. The owners supplied it. In fact that is how I got the job. The rest. equipment supplier referred me to install it for them. BTW Zurn and I think Josam both make nice floor 20ish pound grease traps, obviously they cost more.

Heads up on the poly trap. I used a 2" SCH 80 threaded nipple to connect to it after flow control tee. I used teflon tape to seal the threads an no dope. As soon as I made my connection to the unit before hooking into continuous waste I noticed the fittings were big time back pitched. The 2" threaded connection was a flange type fitting that sandwiched the poly trap to connect and seal unit. The sides of the trap were ever so slightly sloped and it threw everything out of Whack. I solved the problem with a heat gun I carry from my fiberglass tub repairs back in the day. I very very gently warmed the plastic and with a zip tie attached to the cross support as it warmed and begun to soften I applied tension to the zip tie until I had slope. I left it to cool while I piped continuous waste. Removed the zip tie and she was perfect. Replaced with a fancy little plumbers strap rig I developed. 

I would post pics but I busted my camera lens on my BB and I have one month to go until I have cell phone insurance again. Apparently two per year is the max on BB replacements.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Sounds lovely. Thanks for the heads up.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

We size interceptors by gallons instead of pounds, so I had to look to see what exactly a 20 lb trap was.

IMO, their 20 lb trap requirement is a joke. No way it's going to work properly on a big 3-comp sink getting used hard.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Especially in the south, we fry everything:laughing:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I just went around town and if they are not going to size them properly it is going to be a joke. The owners feel it is just to collect the $100.00 per yr. fee they are imposing. And they want to know what that is for. Most of my accounts are the bigger establishments. I can already see that the little guys want it cheap. I don't need it.


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

That is all I have been installing for the last year. The outlet option locations really help it the tight places and the built in flow regulator saves a little space. 



Colgar said:


> We've done some of these in the past:
> 
> http://www.schierproducts.com/grease.html
> 
> ...


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Why enforce something if it is not going to be sized right, but then again those small places are going to flip out if they have to comply with proper sizing. Good Luck slickrick, btw, what is the 100 per yr charge for? money to clean the cities sewer system?



slickrick said:


> I just went around town and if they are not going to size them properly it is going to be a joke. The owners feel it is just to collect the $100.00 per yr. fee they are imposing. And they want to know what that is for. Most of my accounts are the bigger establishments. I can already see that the little guys want it cheap. I don't need it.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

ESPinc said:


> Why enforce something if it is not going to be sized right, but then again those small places are going to flip out if they have to comply with proper sizing. Good Luck slickrick, btw, what is the 100 per yr charge for? money to clean the cities sewer system?


There is no explanation for the fee. I suppose it is for dropping your cleaning report in a file.


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