# Asbestos



## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Is there a surefire way to know if insulation is asbestos? My boss swears they never wrapped fiberglass with asbestos cloth and others have told me they did? Is the whitepowdery stuff under cloth asbestos or is it calcium wrapped with plain cloth?
Is there any quick litmus test or good indicators without a lab?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

No there is no way too no for sure! Up here it has become a big business and expensive for the testing procedure and abatement!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Bring in a third party to test, abate, test, certify, and then go to work if you want to play it safe and leave things alone if you don't need to mess with it.

I know a guy that use to mix the powder with water in a bucket by hand for years, smokes and he seems fine. Would you catch anyone doing it now, no.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

That is the problem itis expensiv to test for it. I lost a tub drain repipe today because I believe the water pipes that had to be moved to get to it were covered in asbestos. The lady informed me she would call the other plumbers cause they were hungry and would strip it and do the work no questions asked. I should sue for exposure next time I go in that basement since it wasn't properly abated!


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> Bring in a third party to test, abate, test, certify, and then go to work if you want to play it safe and leave things alone if you don't need to mess with it.
> 
> I know a guy that use to mix the powder with water in a bucket by hand for years, smokes and he seems fine. Would you catch anyone doing it now, no.


 I had thoughts about starting an asbesto abatement company up here it is pretty much a no brainer. Love whats under the lagging too much though! :yes:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I've done about a hundred glove bags...Give me a call next time, I'll give you a discount....


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> That is the problem itis expensiv to test for it. I lost a tub drain repipe today because I believe the water pipes that had to be moved to get to it were covered in asbestos. The lady informed me she would call the other plumbers cause they were hungry and would strip it and do the work no questions asked. I should sue for exposure next time I go in that basement since it wasn't properly abated!


 Up here we have a moderate risk procedure set which means tybeck suit resperator hepa vac glovebags amended water etc.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Many abestos 'abatement' companies went belly up as they were caught scamming the public.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Is it legal for me to do a glove bag or do I need special certification and training? I would hate to be an asbestos hack!

I have sprayglued and wrapped it with plastic when I didn't have to remove it but was gonna be working against it.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

deerslayer said:


> Is it legal for me to do a glove bag or do I need special certification and training? I would hate to be an asbestos hack!
> 
> I have sprayglued and wrapped it with plastic when I didn't have to remove it but was gonna be working against it.


I've had the required 40 hour training, and have annual refreshers to be able to do glove bags.

I let it go this year though....


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> That is the problem itis expensiv to test for it. I lost a tub drain repipe today because I believe the water pipes that had to be moved to get to it were covered in asbestos. The lady informed me she would call the other plumbers cause they were hungry and would strip it and do the work no questions asked. I should sue for exposure next time I go in that basement since it wasn't properly abated!


If it is not disturbed it is fine. I believe it was just used on heating lines. I have also been told that the corrugated cardboard looking insulation is not asbestos but the fittings were solid asbestos. Usually a painters coveralls, proper breathing apparatus speced by Grainger (probably tanks and respirator), duct tape, and heavy plastic bags is all that is usually used by these abatement contractors. 

*I am in no way saying that the above is the way to do a proper abatement.*


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Gettinit said:


> If it is not disturbed it is fine. I believe it was just used on heating lines. I have also been told that the corrugated cardboard looking insulation is not asbestos but the fittings were solid asbestos. Usually a painters coveralls, proper breathing apparatus speced by Grainger (probably tanks and respirator), duct tape, and heavy plastic bags is all that is usually used by these abatement contractors.
> 
> *I am in no way saying that the above is the way to do a proper abatement.*


 And then.. where ya dump it???


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Vermiculite is a danger and the old floor tiling too! Drywall compound!:yes:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Gettinit said:


> If it is not disturbed it is fine. I believe it was just used on heating lines. I have also been told that the corrugated cardboard looking insulation is not asbestos but the fittings were solid asbestos. Usually a painters coveralls, proper breathing apparatus speced by Grainger (probably tanks and respirator), duct tape, and heavy plastic bags is all that is usually used by these abatement contractors.
> 
> *I am in no way saying that the above is the way to do a proper abatement.*


You were told wrong about the brown corrugated....It is much more friable than the white Chrysotile AB...

It is not a good idea to do any removal without training and an approved place for disposal...


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> And then.. where ya dump it???


 Up here they double bag it, label it and then take it to the dump! For future generations to dig up!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> And then.. where ya dump it???



The people who would do such things would probably dump it in the dumpster somewhere else away from the house and business.

*I am in no way saying that the above is the way to do a proper abatement.*


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Were would the proper place for disposal be?

sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

I have seen it wetted down and removed and set out for the trash but it doesn't seem right to me!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

Airgap said:


> You were told wrong about the brown corrugated....It is much more friable than the white Chrysotile AB...
> 
> It is not a good idea to do any removal without training and an approved place for disposal...


I figured as much so I stayed away. A proper abatement is the only way to do it safely and legally or just leave it be. But, it doesn't stop people from messing with it.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> I have seen it wetted down and removed and set out for the trash but it doesn't seem right to me!


Helps keep it from going airborne. I have noticed the hard packed plaster looking asbestos lets water roll right off like a ducks back.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Airgap said:


> You were told wrong about the brown corrugated....It is much more friable than the white Chrysotile AB...
> 
> It is not a good idea to do any removal without training and an approved place for disposal...


 Friabile means the ability too be crushed then sent airbourne thus affecting the lungs! Respirator fit testing annually must be clean shaven! Have a razor and shaving cream in my truck now! :yes:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Gettinit said:


> I figured as much so I stayed away. A proper abatement is the only way to do it safely and legally or just leave it be. But, it doesn't stop people from messing with it.


The problem is, if the wrong person finds out it's being messed with without proper training for abatement and disposal, there can be legal problems...

It's not worth the risk for me. At least not the older, wiser, me....


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Airgap said:


> The problem is, if the wrong person finds out it's being messed with without proper training for abatement and disposal, there can be legal problems...
> 
> It's not worth the risk for me. At least not the older, wiser, me....


 And its the customer that is most likely to bring the legal problems!


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

"No good deed goes unpunished." How true it can be....


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

The customer is all too aware of asbestos.I have got more than a few jobs because other companies didnt have a abatement program in place. So yes sometimes the training is well worth it. Plus we all can be safe! Great post! Customers when notified also respect your knowledge and advice. Tell them and they usually respect the information! Training is long and boring, but a good instructor will keep you on your toes!:thumbsup:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

deerslayer said:


> Is there a surefire way to know if insulation is asbestos? My boss swears they never wrapped fiberglass with asbestos cloth and others have told me they did? Is the whitepowdery stuff under cloth asbestos or is it calcium wrapped with plain cloth?
> Is there any quick litmus test or good indicators without a lab?


In the apprenticeship it was my job to cover all the coal fired round boilers we installed with asbestos. First a course stick coat, then a couple of days later or when dry, put on a finish coat mix a little of dry white portland in the mix to make it hard. all mixing done by hand in buckets. Now in later life -- no breathing or lung problems. My feeling about asbestos is -- it got out of hand by the do-gooders. Just like lead that has everbody scared. Worked with that too, from lead wiping to pouring and caulking lead. Not to mention lead pans. I attended lead abatement class and yes lead paint dust is very dangeous and should be contained. They wern't to concerned about removing lead piping, caulking lead and what not. However they were greatly alarmed about smashing out a ceramic tile wall when the tile was made with lead as an ingretiant. Now lets go to asbestos it too is very detrimental when air blows across it in a ceiling, wall or floor. Working in an office or going to school when there was A/C and warm air heat blowing probably is the cause of all the asbestos attorneys lively hoods. Even today if I encounter asbestos pipe covering. It's coming off the pipes going in a garbage bag and in the dumpster. Just think what will happen when they find out air born fiberglass is detrimental to your health. I never worked in an office and when I went to school they heated with steam in cast iron raditors. We did not have A/C


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Back to the question is there any way to know if it is asbestos?
What is more than likely asbestos?


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> Back to the question is there any way to know if it is asbestos?
> What is more than likely asbestos?


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

There is a way. Call an out of town abatement company and ask what they use to test the air with. Sounds like Pilot Light may have one.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Gettinit said:


> There is a way. Call an out of town abatement company and ask what they use to test the air with. Sounds like Pilot Light may have one.


No thought about it! This is asbestos too!


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> Back to the question is there any way to know if it is asbestos?
> What is more than likely asbestos?


 Do you do residential or commercial? You told me but I forgot! If it is commercial it is really easy.:yes:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

You can't tell by looking at it.

Well actually, You can, under a microscope.

That's the only way.


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

pilot light said:


> Do you do residential or commercial? You told me but I forgot! If it is commercial it is really easy.:yes:


I do both!


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

pilot light said:


> Do you do residential or commercial? You told me but I forgot! If it is commercial it is really easy.:yes:


I do both!


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

RealLivePlumber said:


> You can't tell by looking at it.
> 
> Well actually, You can, under a microscope.
> 
> That's the only way.


great another tool to carry!


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> I do both!


 Commercial is easy because all buildings are now required to have an asbestos inventory done! At least up here it is required! Residential I dont know! I have heard when major renos are done it must be tested. The best answer is before you commence work ask if it has been tested if not ask them why it hasnt been and explain the risks not too you but too the customer who lives there! If its an emergency and no testing has been done you treat it like it is asbestos! Suit, mask, ammended water glove bags etc and when they ***** tell them its called due dilligence!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> In the apprenticeship it was my job to cover all the coal fired round boilers we installed with asbestos. First a course stick coat, then a couple of days later or when dry, put on a finish coat mix a little of dry white portland in the mix to make it hard. all mixing done by hand in buckets. Now in later life -- no breathing or lung problems. My feeling about asbestos is -- it got out of hand by the do-gooders. Just like lead that has everbody scared. Worked with that too, from lead wiping to pouring and caulking lead. Not to mention lead pans. I attended lead abatement class and yes lead paint dust is very dangeous and should be contained. They wern't to concerned about removing lead piping, caulking lead and what not. However they were greatly alarmed about smashing out a ceramic tile wall when the tile was made with lead as an ingretiant. Now lets go to asbestos it too is very detrimental when air blows across it in a ceiling, wall or floor. Working in an office or going to school when there was A/C and warm air heat blowing probably is the cause of all the asbestos attorneys lively hoods. Even today if I encounter asbestos pipe covering. It's coming off the pipes going in a garbage bag and in the dumpster. Just think what will happen when they find out air born fiberglass is detrimental to your health. I never worked in an office and when I went to school they heated with steam in cast iron raditors. We did not have A/C


:yes:


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Protech said:


> :yes:


 I agree but the customer is the weakest link! Trust me i know!:blink:


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