# Backflow preventer



## luv2plum (May 16, 2012)

Recently installed this backflow preventer and expansion tank on the domestic main supplying a factory. Everything wrapped in the white vinyl is new, the rest was existing. Had some questions for the other backflow guys: 

1) Is anyone else using ASME expansion tanks? They are way more expensive (more than 10 times more), but I do like that they are traceable and they appear much more solidly built than the non-ASME versions. They are much heavier and are built from much thicker steel, plus the bladders are replaceable. What do you guys use? 

2) Also, I have been using Wilkins BFPs for a while, but am thinking of switching to Watts. Any good/bad experiences with either of them? Wilkins has been easy to service and parts are cheap and readily available, but I find that the Watts ones are better configured for tight spots and they have only one access to the internal parts, therefore only one seal to leak externally, where the Wilkins have 2 or 3 seals to leak.

Thoughts?


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Be prepared to pay a lot more for the watts backflow's.


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## Gettinit (May 9, 2012)

I personally like to stick with a good quality that is readily available, unless you can sell the rebuild kits ahead of time.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

We use Wilkins backflow devices all over the state without any problems. Wilkins has a lot better pricing than watts which is overpriced compared to other brands and that doesn't mean watts is better. If you can get the repair parts for the wilkins with in your area stick with them. Watts is good but their prices are not.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

try getting a watts 1/2" 007 for 85.00


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## huskyevert (Mar 9, 2012)

Of all the places that backflow preventers leak, in my experience it is rarely at the check access. The single access on Watts devices are a pain. The smaller sizes are hard to get my fingers into. All sizes have those white plastic cages that contain the check and the seat. They are often seized in there and break when being removed. Wilkins are a lot easier to service in my opinion.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

huskyevert said:


> Of all the places that backflow preventers leak, in my experience it is rarely at the check access. The single access on Watts devices are a pain. The smaller sizes are hard to get my fingers into. All sizes have those white plastic cages that contain the check and the seat. They are often seized in there and break when being removed. Wilkins are a lot easier to service in my opinion.



Couldn't have said it better myself.I was a watts fan til I had to start rebuilding the smaller one's and have the cage break and checks crumble on you. Try getting those checks out of one that has been used with 150+ degree water without them breaking . The Wilkins have totally changed my opinion of watts between how easy they are to rebuild and the big price difference.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

justme said:


> try getting a watts 1/2" 007 for 85.00


Just paid $123. For one today. Crazy stupid price.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Just paid $123. For one today. Crazy stupid price.


Morrisons just switched to Wilkin's you could get a lot better price out of them.Let me guess you bought the watts at ferguson right.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Gettinit said:


> I personally like to stick with a good quality that is readily available, unless you can sell the rebuild kits ahead of time.


I generally keep complete rebuild kits for Watt's, Willkin's and Febco's in sizes 1/2 thru 1-1/2 on my truck. We have a place in town called 'The Parts Works' -- Those guys are pretty good about being able to put their hands on parts they don't have in stock very quickly. The had seats for a 6" Ames DCVA in my grubby mitts with only 24 hours notice.



justme said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself.I was a watts fan til I had to start rebuilding the smaller one's and have the cage break and checks crumble on you. Try getting those checks out of one that has been used with 150+ degree water without them breaking . The Wilkins have totally changed my opinion of watts between how easy they are to rebuild and the big price difference.


I'm actually partial to the Febco's for maintenance. Most of the DCVA's I encounter are in yard boxes, which can get filled in with dirt by moles over a weekend. Being able to access the device from the top is a big plus when you live in a wet and rainy city like Seattle. Try changing seats on a submerged Wilkins DCVA in a muddy yard box in the middle of December or January while holding an inspection mirror in your chattering teeth. I had never owned a submersible/waterproof flashlight in my life until I became a BAT and started testing Wilkins assemblies.




Titan Plumbing said:


> Just paid $123. For one today. Crazy stupid price.


That's just a little less than I can get them for.

Just wait until we're buying devices with machined, stainless water passage ways a year or so from now when the lead free laws finally take effect. The price is going to triple.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

3/4" rpz stainless is almost 600 dollars here and I agree with you about the wilkins in the ground . I luckily don't have to work on irrigation or house's so I don't have to deal with that situation. In a commercial setting where everything is inside off the ground the Wilkins in my opinion is the way to go .


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

justme said:


> 3/4" rpz stainless is almost 600 dollars here and I agree with you about the wilkins in the ground . I luckily don't have to work on irrigation or house's so I don't have to deal with that situation. In a commercial setting where everything is inside off the ground the Wilkins in my opinion is the way to go .


Wilkins are a pain in my arse, because 99% of them are in yard boxes servicing irrigation systems -- I try to sub those tests out. I take my 25% cut and count my blessings.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

justme said:


> Morrisons  just switched to Wilkin's you could get a lot better price out of them.Let me guess you bought the watts at ferguson right.


Nope, I will drive 100 miles to keep from buy at Fergusons...Bought it at Winnelson.

The 009 in SS is $660., BTW.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

luv2plum said:


> 1) Is anyone else using ASME expansion tanks? They are way more expensive (more than 10 times more), but I do like that they are traceable and they appear much more solidly built than the non-ASME versions. They are much heavier and are built from much thicker steel, plus the bladders are replaceable. What do you guys use?
> 
> ?


If the customer will bite, they are fine. If it's a hard money job and ASME isn't spec'ed, they get a ST-5 or ST-12.


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## luv2plum (May 16, 2012)

Thanks for all the comments, very helpful. I agree with the thoughts about the little plastic cages on the Watts, very bad design. 
Expansion tanks? ASME or non?


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

We have been using the 975 xl's by wilkins for some time. I have one in service over 5 years without a rebuild and it is the oldest one I noticed running into. We have great luck with them! 1/2 the price of a 909!

In widders instance I do understand the preference for Febco! I am glad yard boxes aren't as common here and they are trying to phase them completely out!


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