# Immediate response requested to help resolve issue with inspector



## jrplumbing74 (Apr 19, 2009)

I have a question that does require an immediate response. I am trying to get my top out rough in inspection at a restaurant where the units seperating walls are 1 hour fire rated. The inspector will not pass my rough in as it is his belief that:
1) - My drain and vent piping (pvc) is not supposed to be inside of a 1 hr rated wall (a combustability issue). Even though as an upfit project there was already pvc in wall.
2) - To remove existing plumbing we removed the 5/8" wall board and installed our new plumbing in same wall. Inspector says and I quote "I don't know how you can repair drywall to 1 hour rating, so I can't pass your plumbing till I find out".??????
I am at a total loss on what to do with this guy. Any help???

Thanks, Jon


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Have you tried a (Meta-Caulk Fire Coller)? Thats what we use for PVC over 1 1/2. Any thing less than 1 1/2 i use fire caulk.


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## jrplumbing74 (Apr 19, 2009)

The pipes are running vertically from the new underslab plumbing, and coming out the firewall into the space above the suspended ceiling, then out thru roof.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

1) piping and conduit is run vertically in fire walls every day. 

2)How do repair the wall to retain fire rating? 
The same damn way you would finish it if it weren't a fire wall. Tape and mud...... 

I'm too lazy to quote chapter and verse but, it's in there.


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## jrplumbing74 (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks ILPlumber, I have combed the codes on this today in my office and have'nt seen it but I have not run into this before and will keep looking. This has been a nightmare though because between the plumbing inspector and the building inspector they keep tossing me back and forth. I also just hung up with the G.C. and he says the inspectors now want the architect to tell them how to fix it??????

Thanks,
>> from a very confused plumber.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

WOW. Um, that is the dumbest thing i have read on here in a long time. I would love to meet this inspector. Are you checking your plumbing code, or building code book?


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## jrplumbing74 (Apr 19, 2009)

Rockstar, I have looked in, under, behind both books...the architect called me back and has a UL listing #W112098 that I forwarded to inspector. It basically says up to 2" can be in wall and firestopped as typical. Who knows?? I will update as soon as I know.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

When I grow up I want to be a stupid inspector


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

You can repair drywall back to a one hour rating by using tape and mud. Or you can use fire caulk to fill the joints. You can have pvc in a fire wall. But to penetrate the fire wall either you convert to cast iron or copper or to stay pvc you use those collapsible fire collars. If you use cast iron or copper then you use fire caulk around the joint.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I was gonna say, crawl up into some attics around here in some duplexs. hor hay and the boyz tape and mud the hell out of the seperation walls above the ceiling. It really is some thrown togehter crap. Tape and mud everywhere. Oh, if your gonna penetrate the roof near a fire wall, make sure your 48" away from it.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I believe you can penetrate the roof from inside a fire wall. i.e. wall goes all the way to the deck, vent never exits wall. right out the roof.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I said near a fire wall, like not in it, but near it.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

What did you say again? Are you talkin to me. Yeah you...


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> I believe you can penetrate the roof from inside a fire wall. i.e. wall goes all the way to the deck, vent never exits wall. right out the roof.


I wouldnt think you could. say the fire climbs all the way up to the roof from inside the wall and goes into the roof penetration, then the roof, the roof, the roof is on fire. Catch the insulation or what ever is up there on fire.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I think the idea is to keep the fire outside the wall. 

Preventing it from going from one room to another.

The chances of a fire starting inside a fire wall are slim.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Well lets say some dumb ash sparky, does his J box wrong on said Fire wall. Loos wire or sumthing like dat. Couple of sparks later, Poof. up in smoke. that, would be a sitiation, where you would not want a vent penetraiting said part of da roof.. The, the possibility from it spreading from once side to the other, via the roofin membrane of whatever material is used, would possibly cause said fire to spread. Doest dat make sense to you? ( Fire marshall bill Accent, from in living color, remeber him?)


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I'm going to build a solid block and steel home. see ya later insurance. is that off topic enough?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/...&current=FireMarshallBill-BurnsSchoolDown.flv


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

house plumber said:


> http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/...&current=FireMarshallBill-BurnsSchoolDown.flv



That is freakin awesome!:laughing:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> That is freakin awesome!:laughing:


It took me forever to download it to my photobucket. I was hoping nobody would beat me to it while it was downloading.


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## Bayside500 (May 16, 2009)

house plumber said:


> It took me forever to download it to my photobucket. I was hoping nobody would beat me to it while it was downloading.


or ya could have just searched youtube for a video :thumbup:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Bayside500 said:


> or ya could have just searched youtube for a video :thumbup:


:blink: You're right I could. but since I already had it in my music folder I figured I wouldn't have to go search for it. Therefor I could just open photobucket and save it right from there. Just didn't realize since I have verizon fios at max operating speeds it still would take 3 minutes to upload. :thumbup:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

:yes:



house plumber said:


> You can repair drywall back to a one hour rating by using tape and mud. Or you can use fire caulk to fill the joints. You can have pvc in a fire wall. But to penetrate the fire wall either you convert to cast iron or copper or to stay pvc you use those collapsible fire collars. If you use cast iron or copper then you use fire caulk around the joint.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Actually, the fire rating is how long it takes a fire to burn from one side to the other. Both sides of the wall are factored into the fire rating.



ILPlumber said:


> I think the idea is to keep the fire outside the wall.
> 
> Preventing it from going from one room to another.
> 
> The chances of a fire starting inside a fire wall are slim.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Protech said:


> Actually, the fire rating is how long it takes a fire to burn from one side to the other. Both sides of the wall are factored into the fire rating.


Actually? Where did I say anything to the contrary?


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## express (Nov 22, 2008)

when the Sheetrock is installed they use tape and mud for the seams, ask the inspector why he would even consider anything more would be needed. He is looking too hard for a problem instead of enforcing the code. Go to the head inspector.


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## jrplumbing74 (Apr 19, 2009)

OK.......Update..... Inspector is requiring architect to submit UL listings of all materials used to repair fire wall and will pass top out rough in upon receipt. This is now going on a full week and a half from when he initially inspected work causing basically a work stoppage onsite. I take great pride in the fact that my inspection approval/disapproval record (including rough in and final inspections) is 84 - 3. I am not being prideful in this, but I choose to operate my business with these ideas:
- I want things done right in a proper fashion the first time.
- I want solutions to problems, not negativity.
- Whatever it takes no matter how long, how hard, how difficult I will get the job done.
- If I fail at anything the worst that can come out of it is that I have learned how to become better.
Have a good weekend guys and thank you for your input.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

The last project we did like that with fire stopping we had the same problem. Inspector was a complete moron ... so I called in the manufacture of the pipe and fitting and schedule an appointment onsite so the manufacture could get it thought to the inspector.. I was just sick and tired of giving documents showing details of fire separation. So I said here you guys fight it out and let me know what you decide.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

For real, was he wearing a drool catch cup too?



ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> WOW. Um, that is the dumbest thing i have read on here in a long time. I would love to meet this inspector. Are you checking your plumbing code, or building code book?


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

We have and so has the HVAC people 4" PVC through fire walls. We just use fire caulk.


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

Any drywall with tape and mud is fire rated. Tell the idiot to look in any attached garage. Any garage attached to a dwelling where a primary gathering will take place MUST be rated at 1 hour. All they ever do is throw up drywall, and tape. They dont even re mud and it will pass code. 

And for he who said that fire rating includes the exterior wall? Wrong. Fire rating means:

How long it takes for a fire to burn through a given material, ie sheetrock, osb, or what ever you may cover the wall with. This is when the wood structure behind the cover will become heated to the point of spontaneous combustion.

How do I know??
VA class "B" licensed building contractor


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## rickmccarthy (Jul 20, 2009)

absolutely ridiculous no matter what issue the inspector has I am not seeing how it could possibly be the plumbers problem unless you were passing through the wall perpendicular and didnt have proper annular space and fire caulk but from slab to attic in a wall no problemo de plumero


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## CEO (Apr 2, 2009)

what is inside the wall is irrelevant, it is where the piping passes through or comes out of the firewall he should look at. have the engineer of record provide a firesafing detail (get it out of the 3m book) for pipe collars for pvc piping. not a big deal.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

I think it's covered in NFPA 5000. Kinda moot now judging by the date of OP but I can look it up if anbody cares.
Commercial establishments and residential dwellings are both addressed but different rules apply, especially in restaurants.

Things I DO know for certain is that DWV PVC meets the flame and smoke spread rating in both Canada and Mex, I mean USA  however local jurisdictions may have other requirements. But generally accepted in most places is PVC with approved devices (collars and such) wherever the piping perforates the fire rated wall or ceiling.


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## holman23 (Feb 16, 2010)

been commercial plumbing in illinois for 30 years, been mistakes made in fire walls,when we cut into them we either went back to seams or if possible doulbled up on drywall to make 2 hr rating pve if not mistaken does not burn it smolderes which in turn gives you a 1 hr rating as long as the other gentleman said with firecualk or collars, to keep it simple we switched over to cast. look it up in bocha code which is recognized thruout us


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

holman23 said:


> bocha code


:blink:I don't recognize it...:blink:


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