# New Dishwashers Siphoning



## IanBrown (Dec 15, 2011)

So about a year ago a guy from the company i work for installed a dishwasher with the trap under the floor. Everything seemed to be hooked up correctly but a few days ago i got a call back because its burnt 2 elements out of it. In talking with the local appliance repair they told me the new samsung and LG washers have this problem and need to be hooked up like a clothes washer with a stand pipe and all to stop the siphon?? I've never heard of this and I really dont like the idea of burying that behind the dishwasher plus im thinking itll make it stick out quite a bit any suggestions?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I've never heard of a dishwasher drain done in either manner.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I would assume there was a sink beside the dishwasher, do they not allow disposal or branch y tail piece connections there?


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## Radium (Dec 25, 2010)

Put another five feet of dishwasher hose on the factory hose and make a couple loops with the excess pipe behind the washer. Why would anyone put a ptrap in the floor for a sink/dishwasher?


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

IanBrown said:


> So about a year ago a guy from the company i work for installed a dishwasher with the trap under the floor. Everything seemed to be hooked up correctly but a few days ago i got a call back because its burnt 2 elements out of it. In talking with the local appliance repair they told me the new samsung and LG washers have this problem and need to be hooked up like a clothes washer with a stand pipe and all to stop the siphon?? I've never heard of this and I really dont like the idea of burying that behind the dishwasher plus im thinking itll make it stick out quite a bit any suggestions?


Just strap the discharge line to the top of the cabinet and it will stop any siphoning. Make sure your discharge is indirectly connected by means of an air break.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

A indirect waste behind the dishwasher is asking for trouble. Damage is going to occur down the road.


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## IanBrown (Dec 15, 2011)

*RE*

yeah not a huge fan of pee trap in the floor but the dishwasher is nowhere near the sink. I thought about the extra hose with loops but wouldnt that just burn his pump out alot faster? The dishwasher itself has the 2' loop in the discharge up the side of the dishwasher which as far as ive seen should stop the siphon?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

IanBrown said:


> yeah not a huge fan of pee trap in the floor but the dishwasher is nowhere near the sink. I thought about the extra hose with loops but wouldnt that just burn his pump out alot faster? The dishwasher itself has the 2' loop in the discharge up the side of the dishwasher which as far as ive seen should stop the siphon?


The only thing that is going to break the siphon is air. Do they carry the dishes across the kitchen to the dishwasher?


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> A indirect waste behind the dishwasher is asking for trouble. Damage is going to occur down the road.


Thinking more like under a kitchen sink. Not sure what his set up was but a dishwasher waste has to be indirectly connected to a drain.


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

IanBrown said:


> yeah not a huge fan of pee trap in the floor but the dishwasher is nowhere near the sink. I thought about the extra hose with loops but wouldnt that just burn his pump out alot faster? The dishwasher itself has the 2' loop in the discharge up the side of the dishwasher which as far as ive seen should stop the siphon?


The only demand on the pump is the feet of head it has to over come. What is the discharge line connected to?


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> A indirect waste behind the dishwasher is asking for trouble. Damage is going to occur down the road.


By indirect I meant air break not air gap..


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

cityplumbing said:


> Thinking more like under a kitchen sink. Not sure what his set up was but a dishwasher waste has to be indirectly connected to a drain.


If it was near the sink then no need for a additional indirect waste receptor. Someone has a design problem that is going to be hard to deal with, and cause future problems.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

cityplumbing said:


> By indirect I meant air break not air gap..


I understand, location behind the dishwasher is the biggest problem I see.


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## cityplumbing (Jun 12, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> I understand, location behind the dishwasher is the biggest problem I see.


This is true.


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## EricS (May 2, 2010)

What you need is a Johnson tee.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

EricS said:


> What you need is a Johnson tee.


You mean a Smith Tee. :blink:


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

[quote=IanBrown;226931]So about a year ago a guy from the company i work for installed a dishwasher with the trap under the floor. Everything seemed to be hooked up correctly but a few days ago i got a call back because its burnt 2 elements out of it. In talking with the local appliance repair they told me the new samsung and LG washers have this problem and need to be hooked up like a clothes washer with a stand pipe and all to stop the siphon?? I've never heard of this and I really dont like the idea of burying that behind the dishwasher plus im thinking itll make it stick out quite a bit any suggestions?[/quote]

*Bet that guy came from the old school. Years back that was the way it was done. In fact a Kitchen-Aid did not drain through a hose at all. at drain time in the cycle a selonoid would open and it would dump into a "P" trap --- under the floor ... 
*


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

something funny here kit.sink to disposal is the only way to go or tlp. with branch


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

An Air Gap will solve all these problems.


People will go 10 wrong directions instead of going the right one.


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## user8031 (Dec 14, 2011)

air gap!


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

Air Gap!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> An Air Gap will solve all these problems.





wyefortyfive said:


> air gap!





TPWinc said:


> Air Gap!


I can't figure out if you guys are offering a solution or calling for one of the Greenlettermen.:blink::laughing:


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> I can't figure out if you guys are offering a solution or calling for one of the Greenlettermen.:blink::laughing:


My catchy plumbing username finally pays dividends....


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## surfdog (Oct 20, 2011)

will you splain the air gap?


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

> Bet that guy came from the old school. Years back that was the way it was done. In fact a Kitchen-Aid did not drain through a hose at all. at drain time in the cycle a selonoid would open and it would dump into a "P" trap --- under the floor ... ]


Naaaahhhh...lol

I've seen one p-trap under the floor and sewage was pouring out of it. A connection (the nut, maybe) gave way and the sewer backed up and I charged a boat load to put it right.

Other than that--even with all this hillbilly plumbing round here---that's the only time I seen it.

Bur a standpipe for a dishwasher? Someone's getting lead around my their nose hairs, huh.


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Do u all put the air gap thru the counter or sink?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

beachplumber said:


> Do u all put the air gap thru the counter or sink?


The AG fitting was mounted to the sink, unless it is a under mount or no ledge, we haven't been required to use them in yrs. due to spitting water all over the place. We loop the drain line as high as possible under the counter and secure.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

TPWinc said:


> Air Gap!


To heck with your answer. Where can I get some of that plumber's crack on your avitar?


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## beachplumber (Feb 7, 2010)

Same here we just loop them high in the cabinet.
Wasn,t sure if it was that way everywhere


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

beachplumber said:


> Same here we just loop them high in the cabinet.
> Wasn,t sure if it was that way everywhere


We had to take the AG fittings out after inspection due to leaking, they are just another bright idea IMO. That was many, many years ago.


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