# DIY advice online



## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I read a post from the other day in which another member was laying into "REX" who was apparently banned from this site quite some time ago. He is a member on contractor talk and gave some advice to some idiot who didn't know what a union was. 

I was surprised to see that he was called out on this one. He really didn't deserve that as he isn't even close to being the biggest threat to the plumbing industry. I find it ironic that we have a member here that uses this forum as a medium to promote his own "how to videos". If you want to call somebody out I think you picked the wrong guy. 

It's obvious that the internet is having a huge impact on many different industries. I know that Dunbar is one of several guys to make plumbing how to video's and post them online for their own benefit. Hell, I made some videos awhile back and got quite a few views. The more I thought about it I realized that I was only hurting the industry. And as protech will tell you, the youtube community isn't exactly the most humble or appreciative audience. 

There are several things that have changed over the last 15 years that have impacted our industry. Here are a few that significantly overshadow Rex's little tip...

Home Depot - I master plumber is in the store at all times to give advice to hack contractors and DIY a holes. 

DIY Forums - Typically if a question is asked in Contractor talk and it appears to be a homeowner they will be directed to the DIY forum. 

How to Plumbing Videos- Google how to install a water heater. There is a ton of videos that will show you how it's done. 

A down economy- Everybody is out to save a buck. Weither it's the homeowner or a hack GC, people are desperate and seem to be willing to take the risk and do the illegal work. 

The industry is changing and there is nothing we can do about it. However, it's not fair to point the finger at one person as the problem is just too big. It is what it is and we can either adapt or secede from the industry all together.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plumberkc said:


> I read a post from the other day in which another member was laying into "REX" who was apparently banned from this site quite some time ago. He is a member on contractor talk and gave some advice to some idiot who didn't know what a union was.
> 
> I was surprised to see that he was called out on this one. He really didn't deserve that as he isn't even close to being the biggest threat to the plumbing industry. I find it ironic that we have a member here that uses this forum as a medium to promote his own "how to videos". If you want to call somebody out I think you picked the wrong guy.


 I thought it was a little unfair to single Rex/Rambo out when there are so many other familiar names posting in the DIY forum.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I don't believe the DIY advice was really the source of the saddle burr. We even have a Plumbing Tips section on our forum. You can bet DIY'ers probably read it regularly along with the countless other "how to" threads posted here.

I do not know of any member ever being banned for offering DIY advice. It might not be viewed favorably but it is not against the rules.

As far as the accuracy of the advice, they will get their money's worth and the Zone is free. That is why this is at the top of the Terms of Service:

_*Terms of Service

Warning: The contracting trades are an activity in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. 
ALL Users must read and agree to these Terms of Service before using this site.*_​ _This web site is dedicated to the plumbing trades, an activity which is inherently dangerous. You should not depend on information gleaned from this site for your personal safety. Your safety depends upon your own judgment based on competent instruction, experience, and a realistic assessment of ability._​ _There are no warranties, either expressed or implied, that the information on this website are accurate and reliable. Your use of this site indicates your assumption of the risk of death or serious injury and is an acknowledgment of your own sole responsibility for your safety....._​


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Yeah, some of the biggest posters here have twice as many posts on DIY sites.

Some internet sites--like R.R.--actually have instructions on how to repair toilets. Why?

I always wonder what these people did pre-blogs. Did they stand on a box in the park preaching to the pigeons?

Are they really plumbers? All the plumbers I know--and I know hundreds--have a hard time giving anyone the time of day, much less free help.

The internet is better than 2 hits of Orange Sunshine in the Rain Forest, but it's not as real. And plumbers should never give free advice


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> I thought it was a little unfair to single Rex/Rambo out when there are so many other familiar names posting in the DIY forum.


There are a lot of posts and "calling outs" that are probably unfair. But opinions vary and open internet forums by their very nature allow for differing opinions and attitudes. Right and wrong are sometimes like beauty, they are determined in the eyes of the beholder.

Nathan's rules allow enough breathing room for us to have very passionate and lively debates.

The problems arise when it gets personal about an individual rather than about the topic or opinion. That is one reason why the other thread had to be closed.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I've come to the conclusion that I really don't care what the internet offers as advice to DIY or contractors. Plumbers will always be needed, and more so if you do a good job at a fair price. 

If you over charge for crappy work then you will be replaced regardless. I find many people don't actually want to do their own plumbing, but either don't know a good plumber, or have hired and used not so good plumbers.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Although life is not fair, the remarks made against Rex\Rambo are even worse since he cannot defend himself here. 

People are going to work on their own plumbing, and others as well, you must accept that.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I think it's a little crazy that people want to take on their own plumbing. You guys know as well as I do that plumbing disasters happen all the time. 

Homeowners insurance does not cover faulty workmanship. A lot of people are just uneducated on the risk that doing your own plumbing goes with. I put out this article about DIY plumbing not covered by insurance.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

Do you go to the doctor everytime you get sick?
What is more important your house or your health?

Does a DR. call you a hack for taking Tylenol. 
So why call a customer a hack for trying Draino.


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## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

I dont have any opinion on what advice these guys made but....
As for homeowners and DIY All the guys I know (or nearly all of us) Work on our own cars , Do all kinds of work on our own homes and cars motorcycles boats. Of course I dont want home owners doing their own Plumbing, But Hell I was doing my own Plumbing befor I got in the trade. I use the internet as a referance to everything I do related and unrelated to my trade. I just dont have problem with DIYers Since I am one too.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> Do you go to the doctor everytime you get sick?
> What is more important your house or your health?
> 
> Does a DR. call you a hack for taking Tylenol.
> So why call a customer a hack for trying Draino.


Who said a customer was a hack for typing draino??:blink: I mentioned something about a hack contractor because I know several. A buddy of mine who is a painting contractor (I never talk work with this guy otherwise we couldn't be friends) installed a gas line for one of his clients. Never mind sizing the line, pressure test, or permits. That's who I was calling out as a hack. 

If they are doing the work themselves then they really aren't a customer anyway.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

jeffreyplumber said:


> I dont have any opinion on what advice these guys made but....
> As for homeowners and DIY All the guys I know (or nearly all of us) Work on our own cars , Do all kinds of work on our own homes and cars motorcycles boats. Of course I dont want home owners doing their own Plumbing, But Hell I was doing my own Plumbing befor I got in the trade. I use the internet as a referance to everything I do related and unrelated to my trade. I just dont have problem with DIYers Since I am one too.


I don't have a problem with HO doing their own plumbing, but when you call me for something you couldn't handle and you ask me what I think of the work you did. I'm going to call it like it is... Good,Bad, or Ugly


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Maybe rex was called out for other reasons every one has taere reasons for hateing the guy but maybe like some he was against diy forums and now he's on one but I never met the guy and he was gone before I got here and a lot a lot of fellow zoners dispised him for one reason or another and he got permitaly banned what I whant to kow is why


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I think there are two points of view on DIY. There are quite a few tech places that give free advice over the phone about fixing laptops ect. The reason they do this is because they get the call when it goes to poop. 

Around here DIY is a way of life for two reasons. These country guys are self reliant, and they don't have much disposable income. 

When I get plied for info, I give advise. Usually I give it very fast and very technical, with lots of don't do this or that and here are the reasons why. I pretend the guy is smart as hell and should have no problem. 

I also tell him most people don't want the hassle of getting dirty or renting the tools. Ohh and if he does it here is my card and please try it on a weekday before noon. 


Before you ask, as far as gas or in the wall stuff goes I let them know to call me. ON gas I tell them it's a big no-no to not have a lic guy do it.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

DesertOkie said:


> I think there are two points of view on DIY.
> 
> Around here DIY is a way of life for two reasons. These country guys are self reliant, and they don't have much disposable income.


I am all for being self sufficient but that's only a fraction of the guys on the DIY forums. 

I lost a job a few weeks back. It was a basement rough in. The guy ended up having his neighbor do the work. The neighbor was your typical white collar know it all. Both of them were there when I did the bid. I gave the guy a really good price but he acted as if I was trying to rip him off.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

I just gave a guy free advice on how to prime a well pump not more than 15 minutes ago. He called back to thank me for the advice it worked, and he will recommend me to his neighbors. 

Now will he? If yes then great, I'm already known for being a swell guy, if not then who gives a crap. The point is, I try to be reasonable with each person that calls, because you never know what will come of it.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

plumberkc said:


> I am all for being self sufficient but that's only a fraction of the guys on the DIY forums.
> 
> I lost a job a few weeks back. It was a basement rough in. The guy ended up having his neighbor do the work. The neighbor was your typical white collar know it all. Both of them were there when I did the bid. I gave the guy a really good price but he acted as if I was trying to rip him off.




I never give someone I am giving a bid to advice. My bids are free, when I give advice it is usually when I am doing work the guy can't do and he asks. 

My old shop gave free video inspections with main line running. 

Other companies started to get their customers to call us before they gave a bid for the locate. One twit let me know this, I bet his bid was low I marked an 8' deep line way off and two foot deep. It's real funny for street cuts, had one company call and demand money because they cut the wrong spot. Let them know we never got paid to locate.:laughing:


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I think it was Indie that stated that some people will choose to do their own work. Nothing can be done to stop that. I for one would rather see a person that is going to do their own work have proper knowledge on how to complete that task verse do it blindly and dangerously. From what I can gather from some professionals, they did not want to be bothered by the small job when their economy was looking brighter.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Had a customer attempt to do something then he called us cause he fubared it up. So i get there give him a price he thought was high but still did the work. He asked about changing a fill falve on gave him a price he like cant you tell me how to fix i said ya why not you do this and this. He said sounds easy he tried and couldnt do it he called another plumber and the guy went he asked what did i do wrong he said you not a plumber he fixed charged and left well he needed a new faucet and he called us asked for me i get there he goes i called another company that charged less for the fill valve but he was a total arse. at least you took the time to explain and try to show idc if you charge double what they do at least you kind your my plumber from now on moral of story is even the small things count with customers as for diy on the net no i wouldnt give no info cause how do you know its not a handy man trying to make money there i drop the line sorry no advice from me


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

The only thing non licensed people should be able to do with their plumbing is polish the chrome. :thumbsup: Anybody caught plumbing without a license should be jailed for at least 15 years in a maximum security prison. :thumbsup:


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## PlumberJake (Nov 15, 2010)

revenge said:


> Had a customer attempt to do something then he called us cause he fubared it up. So i get there give him a price he thought was high but still did the work. He asked about changing a fill falve on gave him a price he like cant you tell me how to fix i said ya why not you do this and this. He said sounds easy he tried and couldnt do it he called another plumber and the guy went he asked what did i do wrong he said you not a plumber he fixed charged and left well he needed a new faucet and he called us asked for me i get there he goes i called another company that charged less for the fill valve but he was a total arse. at least you took the time to explain and try to show idc if you charge double what they do at least you kind your my plumber from now on moral of story is even the small things count with customers as for diy on the net no i wouldnt give no info cause how do you know its not a handy man trying to make money there i drop the line sorry no advice from me


Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.:thumbup:


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Dam I think I can read it better all jumbled up. I know my spelling is ten times better since I started posting on the zone!! But I sure do like this button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

50 bucks says most on here do their own brakes when there are mechanics out there looking for work.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I use to but now that I make plumbers wages il pay a pro to do it. But I def get your point !!


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

sorry partner using my phone but if you want someone to translate it you can call 1800 eat shiot. they will clear it up for just fine lol jk


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

revenge said:


> sorry partner using my phone but if you want someone to translate it you can call 1800 eat shiot. they will clear it up for just fine lol jk


Dammmmmm. Burn. A kelso burn at that!!


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

Sorry partner had to, but at least you didnt make a big stink like most people do


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

revenge said:


> Sorry partner had to, but at least you didnt make a big stink like most people do


What, do you have sausages for fingers?

Would it kill you to at least try to be understood?

I'm willing to make excuses for you when you're humble -- All bets are off when you decide to get uppity.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

He is from Texas what do you expect. We are all uppidy down here. Lol


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> He is from Texas what do you expect. We are all uppidy down here. Lol


Most of the Texan's I know are sharp as a tack.

Don't get me wrong, I like Revenge -- Still, he has no one but himself to blame for the way most folks treat him.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

I think he probably does have sausages for fingers.....:yes:


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

mr shims to be honest i wasnt being uppity, just a joke. But most people cant take a joke now if i affended any body or somebody let me say i am sorry and, if you want to talk about it you can pm me. We are here just passing time and trying to have fun. Sometimes we joke and sometimes we are the butt of a joke, You got be thick skinned to make it here, shiot you got to be thick skinned to be a plumber.


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

You know what they say about guys with big fingers.....................................................
..........................................................................................................................
We were big gloves.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

revenge said:


> mr shims to be honest i wasnt being uppity, just a joke. But most people cant take a joke now if i affended any body or somebody let me say i am sorry and, if you want to talk about it you can pm me. We are here just passing time and trying to have fun. Sometimes we joke and sometimes we are the butt of a joke, You got be thick skinned to make it here, shiot you got to be thick skinned to be a plumber.


You gotta know there are still a few of us who view you with a jaundiced eye, right?

I find myself waiting for the other shoe to drop every time I wade into one of your posts.


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## PlumberJake (Nov 15, 2010)

revenge said:


> mr shims to be honest i wasnt being uppity, just a joke. But most people cant take a joke now if i affended any body or somebody let me say i am sorry and, if you want to talk about it you can pm me. We are here just passing time and trying to have fun. Sometimes we joke and sometimes we are the butt of a joke, You got be thick skinned to make it here, shiot you got to be thick skinned to be a plumber.


I took no offense. :thumbsup: I was teasing you and completely understood when you teased back.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I think we would be hard pressed to find a Zoner that takes it all in stride as well as Mr. Revenge. :thumbsup:


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

plumberkc said:


> I read a post from the other day in which another member was laying into "REX" who was apparently banned from this site quite some time ago. He is a member on contractor talk and gave some advice to some idiot who didn't know what a union was.
> 
> I was surprised to see that he was called out on this one. He really didn't deserve that as he isn't even close to being the biggest threat to the plumbing industry.
> 
> *Home Depot - I master plumber is in the store at all times to give advice to hack contractors and DIY a holes. *


 
Just cause HD calls them "Masters" does not make them one. We had an old cat hang it up and take a part time job with them, his boss has never worked a day in plumbing but wears a pin that says master plumber on it, Freakin sad. 

Asked him one day...with all these rubber gaskets on stuff now days...why would you even use plumbers putty!


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*I got honorable mention in the first post*

*yes! *


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> *yes! *


 
as did I!:thumbup:


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## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

90% of my work is commercial / new construction so I have never felt threatened by people trying to do their own work. Hell when some people call for simple service repairs I do my best to try to talk them through fixing it themselves. But I must say I have always wondered when I read the post condeming the DIY's if everyone calls a LICENSED electrician to wire their boiler installs or to tie in a garbage disposal or dishwasher? Do you call a LICENSED roofer to flash all your roof penetrations? And like another poster said the only time we would probably call another professional to make a repair to our own house or shop or repair our cars or trucks is if we were to busy to do it ourselves. I'm not saying what's right or wrong, I'm just commenting on how we all might be in glass houses with bags of rocks


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

This is like discussing abortion or politics. Nobody's gonna change how they think or what the do so who gives a flying F? :laughing: Besides, we have bigger problems ahead. The Zombie apocalypse is nearly upon us. Prepare now :laughing:

I teach plumbing. Not everybody I teach ends up getting a license or for that matter continues in the trade so should I track them down and give them a frontal lobotomy so they forget everything I taught them?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> This is like discussing abortion or politics. Nobody's gonna change how they think or what the do so who gives a flying F? :laughing: Besides, we have bigger problems ahead. The Zombie apocalypse is nearly upon us. Prepare now :laughing:
> 
> I teach plumbing. Not everybody I teach ends up getting a license or for that matter continues in the trade so should I track them down and give them a frontal lobotomy so they forget everything I taught them?


You don't have to worry that other half already had a lobotomy before they got in your class

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## PunkRockPlumber (Mar 26, 2012)

I married a woman with a degree from the Culinary Institute of America because I only want a professional cooking my dinners.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Is there a Sex Institute of America :laughing:


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> .....should I track them down and give them a frontal lobotomy so they forget everything I taught them?


:laughing:


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## PunkRockPlumber (Mar 26, 2012)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Is there a Sex Institute of America :laughing:


Yes it was founded by the Duke Lacrosse team.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

*DIY Informers Anonymous*

Ahem...Excuse me, is this the right room? Is this the meeting for DIY Informers Anonymous?

_(nervous clearing of throat as he steps to the podium)_
Hi, my name is John and I am a DIY Informer. And I mean a CHRONIC DIY Informer. I just can't get this monkey off my back.

_(audience responds, "Hi John")_

I can't help myself. This is a horrible addiction. Everywhere I go there is plumbing to talk about and as luck would have it, I am not always with Plumbers. Before I can stop myself, I suddenly realize I am vomiting all sorts of trade secrets to whoever will listen. Yeah I know some of these people will try to use these secrets themselves, but I just can't stop.

It is now creeping into other areas of my life. At work, I used to constantly fight the urge to be a DIY Informer. Now I am so sick with this addiction that I started embracing it rather than fighting it. Well that was the real turning point. And not for the better.

I seem to be DIY Informing all day long and into the night. I get up extra early in the morning so I can DIY Inform before work. I purposefully take time from my work day to DIY Inform, and I stay up way past my normal curfew to DIY Inform. I DIY Inform to friends, neighbors, family, and strangers at the store....anybody that will listen. On the air I regularly DIY Inform anyone that is still listening to AM talk radio in Oklahoma City. I now make it a high priority to DIY Inform every customer I have. I even setup my own website so I could DIY Inform the masses around the world.

And the icing on the cake is the Plumbing Zone. To date, I have intentionally DIY Informed over 4,000 times. 

Oh my God, I am so sick and I am hurting everyone around me. PLEASE somebody stop me before I have completely destroyed my family income, and every other Plumber's means of support.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Is there a Sex Institute of America :laughing:


Maybe there is a DIY one of those too? :laughing:


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Even the news channels are handing out DIY advice. 











sent from the jobsite porta-potty


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> *yes! *


I guess I'm just curious as to your motivation to create all these how to video's and then a DIY plumbing forum on top of that. 

You seem like a good guy and there is no doubt that your helping people out but if I had to guess I would say that your real motivation is to generate adwords revenue. If that's not an example of "selling out" I don't know what is.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> I guess I'm just curious as to your motivation to create all these how to video's and then a DIY plumbing forum on top of that.
> 
> You seem like a good guy and there is no doubt that your helping people out but if I had to guess I would say that your real motivation is to generate adwords revenue. If that's not an example of "selling out" I don't know what is.


 
I'm heading to work, and I'm working all day tomorrow to catch up on what will be a blowout going into next week if I'm not careful. 

Give me time to respond but only in a private message.


Something for everyone to chew on. Anyone deciphers this how to video, you're a plumber! :laughing:






 

That beautiful sound in the background is my help core drilling a 2" hole through the concrete foundation for the powervent water heater I installed last night.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

What's up with the blue gloves all the time????

Trying not to leave your finger prints behind as evidence or are you turning this into a trade mark like micheal jackson

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I'm heading to work, and I'm working all day tomorrow to catch up on what will be a blowout going into next week if I'm not careful.
> 
> Give me time to respond but only in a private message.
> 
> ...


 
I did not know you had employees how are you paying them ? 1099?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Richard Hilliard said:


> I did not know you had employees how are you paying them ? 1099?


Beans and cabbage.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> Beans and cabbage.


Might be peanuts also

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I don't pay my apprentice. Just being in my presence is worth a kings ransom in gold. :whistling2:


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