# Problem with Moen Posi Temp spout



## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

I had a customer call for a new shower valve install. I cut out the old 3 handle tub and shower valve and installed a new moen posi temp with Caldwell trim, and 3 handle conversion plate, pretty straight forward, everything went well, got done in 3.5 hours, collected cash and on to the next call... well a day later, which is today, she calls and says that when she pulls the diverter on the spout to take a shower, water still comes out of the spout. So i go there and look at the washer in the spout, it seems fine , but its not stopping the water completely , so i change the spout, and it still does the exact same thing! I even tried another spout and still the same thing. Oh, and also i notice that as i turn the shower valve from cold to hot, the hotter i go the smaller the stream is that comes from the spout while the shower is on. I have not called Moen yet , i am going to tommorow. But i was wondering if anyone has ever had this happen???? Any help would be great , thanks!


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Dude, the valve is upside down, Believe me, I know what you are explaining, have seen it done more times than i care to. Also what is the water pressure? Does the valve have integral stops? Did you check the valve body and stem for debri?


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

as far as the spout is concerned, when you pull the diverter up and no water is running does it flop and wiggle around a lot? some spouts i've seen are just built with a much looser tolerance. usually we install chateau trim and those spouts barely drip when the shower is going. 

for the water volume issue. when it's on full hot is the volume about the same as when it's on full cold? that valve is going to produce the most volume at a 50/50 mix. either way hot or cold is going to diminish the flow slightly. did you remove the cartridge when you soldered in the new valve? did you then flush the valve out before reinstalling the cartridge? you can always just plop a new cartridge in to see if that's defective.





paul


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

if the valve were upside down wouldn't it run water up to the shower head even if the diverter wasn't pulled up? that's what ive seen them do. from what i read, it sounds like the diverter is not stopping all the water and leaking some out the tub spout when it's pulled up. maybe i read it wrong.





paul


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Rocksteady, your right brother, had to read his post again. What is the piping material that you used, was it cpvc?


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## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

no it was copper


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## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

i havent tried pulling the cartridge yet, i didnt feel like staying late today, but i didnt think the cartridge would have anything to do with it. When i had the spout off i plugged the stub out with my finger and the water came out of the shower head fine


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

HMM, Hold on im thinking.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Okay, try a differnt spout, if that doesnt work sell her a shower stall, and just cap off the spout.


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## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

i tried 3 different spouts, im gonna call moen tommorow and see what they say


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

What is the pressure on this house?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> What is the pressure on this house?


Didn't someone already ask this?:whistling2:


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

were all 3 spouts you tried the same trim style? try a cheapo proflow or some other crap. i mean if you can cap the copper with a finger or sharkbite cap or somthing and it works fine then your problem is with the spout no matter what moen tells you. it could be that certain trim styles don't work as well as others, i don't know.

my recomendation for the cartridge was if the hot water flow was considerably lower than the cold, not for the spout/shower head issue.







paul


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Didn't someone already ask this?:whistling2:


Yea, Sorry, ROCKSTARPLUMBER wants to know so do I. :laughing:


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## PipemanNYC (Nov 21, 2008)

if the valve was upside down he shouldnt get any hot water at all.. if its roughed in backwards it keeps from scalding..


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

oh, i think i know. 

what's the water pressure?



:laughing:


paul


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

PipemanNYC said:


> if the valve was upside down he shouldnt get any hot water at all.. if its roughed in backwards it keeps from scalding..


 
upside down meaning spun 180 degrees, right? hot coming into the cold port, cold on the hot port, tub port pointing up and shower port pointing down?

as long as there were equal pressures on the hot and cold sides, both should flow fine. it would be the same as putting the cartridge in upside down. you'd turn the valve on and get hot first, then mix, then cold. now, i've had a helper rough one in sideways! he didn't notice until he went to put the clip in and it went in from the right side, not the top. i was repiping a house and he literaly spent the entire day (8 hours +) doing one shower valve, twice.




paul


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## ROTOR KING (Oct 7, 2008)

I ounce had a simmilar problem,I don t remember the water dversion in the spout,but i would lose pressure when i would turn the handle.I removed the mixer on the side,and found out it was seized by the flux.I changed the mixer,and got my pressure.maybe the loss in pressure coming into your faucet is not enough to keep the diverter open.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

How much water is coming out of the spout? Most tub spout diverters leak a little normally. I don't think you could have flipped the valve as moen trim has an ear on the cartridge sleeve that lines up with the cover plate. If the valve was flipped you cover plate would be too and the ear would be facing down.

I think there is nothing wrong at all. Most diverter spouts leak a little. If you are only getting a few drops out or even to the point where the drops become a slight stream then I would consider that normal. Now if you are loosing 1/4 gallon every minute, then I would say something is awry.


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## Kyle181 (Sep 5, 2008)

well i called moen and they said that it is normal as long as the stream from the spout is about the size of a pencil width or less as the shower is running. They also said that if the water coming out is more than that, then the pressure to the house is probably too low. Soooo... i think that the water is prettty normal , maybe slightly more, and i do think that she has low pressure but i wasnt able to get ahold of her yet to schedule to come out and check the pressure.


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## Sewerologist (Jun 29, 2008)

Pressure low is correct. As a side note, I've had them squeel like a stuck pig too. Put the flow restrictor back in the shower head or pop out the diverter washer in the spout ( I know, factory assembled, it does't come apart, lol....) and lube it with silicone grease or add an o-ring slightly smaller than the od of the washer inside of it.


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

Just tell the HO you designed it that way for a foot wash option and charge her an extra $150.00.


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## Plasticman (Oct 14, 2008)

I would say that if the hot water got slower as you turned the valve toward hot, then the hot side has debris in it. Try a new cartridge see if that helps. I had one of those plastic marble balls that they used to install in water heaters come all the way from the wh and got stuck in the hot side of the tub valve. So from then on I took them out of all the new water heaters I installed. So much for their heat trap. LOl. A.O. Smith or was it State, I forgot,,at one time would pay us plumbers $5.00 credit on all the marbles we took out of the heaters that we bought that were affected. Boy, 5 bucks, wow. They never offered to reimburse me for tearing out that tub valve.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

It is also possible that your tub stub out is TOO LONG . If the line is VERY close to the end of the spout it seems to wreck havoc on those things ,,, this has been an experience of mine .

Cal


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## Pipelayingghost (Jan 1, 2009)

There is a recall on some of the moen posi temp tub/shower faucets, not sure why or which exact model, just seen a bulliten at the supply house the other day.


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