# cross bores in sewer lines.



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Had a really strange problem today. We have a customer who backs up at least once a week. She has had several rooter companies snake her line over the past year. We were setting the job up to pipeburst her sewer and when I ran the camera down the line low and behold I run into a nice 4 inch gas main! What a disaster that could have been. Has anyone else ran across this situation?


----------



## AssTyme (May 15, 2010)

Sewer backing up once a week for a year serviced by several rooter companies and nobody else ran a camera down to see what was going on ?


Unbelievable......:no:


----------



## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

....

Sent from my miniature laptop


----------



## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

A plumber in Hamilton OH about 5 years ago blew a house up augering through a gas line! Not really his fault they had bored it in and he was just opening a sewer and there wasn't all the warnings at that time. He was quick to get everyone out and no one was injured. 

They put the warning tags in goofy locations like under a sink at random? Like I look under the 2nd fl master bathroom sink before augering the main? It should be required they put yellow c/o caps or something on?


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Scary stuff. We ran our camera down butcouldnt make out much due to the paper and solids basically holding the water in the line. The gas company will be shutting down the main in the morning and relocating the pipe as we burst the sewer.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

I have seen it with gas and fiber optic.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

This job is in norwood ohio a suburb of cincinnatti


----------



## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

AssTyme said:


> Sewer backing up once a week for a year serviced by several rooter companies and nobody else ran a camera down to see what was going on ?
> 
> 
> Unbelievable......:no:



Hell, sounds like they sold a pipe pull before a camera.


----------



## Hillside (Jan 22, 2010)

No bueno


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Line has heavy root intrusion in the sections we can see but kind of hard to see when camera is under poo water


----------



## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

If your a contractor who has a boring machine, why the  are you not required to camera the sewer lines after they bore lines. :blink:

I dont see why the home owner should have to pay a plumber to camera their line, to make sure someone else did their job properly.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Now its law in ohio if you drill you must camera all lines before and after. Doesn't help all the lines that were drilled in before 2 years ago.


----------



## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

easttexasplumb said:


> If your a contractor who has a boring machine, why the  are you not required to camera the sewer lines after they bore lines. :blink:
> 
> I dont see why the home owner should have to pay a plumber to camera their line, to make sure someone else did their job properly.



They do, but only after an explosion or they are sued. SW gas in Tucson had all the sewer lines in the parts of town they bored new lines in.


----------



## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

There goes the pipe bursting. 

Typically the utilities that bore through the drain line pay for the repair. Frequently the pay the homeowner and the homeowner pays us when we get the job completed.

Here it is common to find comcast or verizon in the building sewer.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Believe it or not we did the burst. The gas company isolated the valve shut off and we pulled through. 30 ft of gasline came with it. They ended up reboring a new line to the house. What a nightmare


----------



## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

wow! I would not have done the burst even with the gas off unless I could pothole (excavate the cross bore) and cut the line free.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Problem was. The cross bore was underneath a set of masonry steps leading to the city walk. It would have been every bit of 10000 to replace the steps not to mention excavate 13 ft. Deep to get to it. Its nice when utility crews work with you to complete the misssion.


----------



## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

Happened six or seven times in town last year! non this year!:blink:


----------



## bizzybeeplumbin (Jul 19, 2011)

I just dug up a line that had a phone cable through it. they laid it right through the sewer and broke the top of it, the roots grew and all of a sudden they had an issue, 10 years later! I documented everything very well and they ended up getting a check for the work done.

What amazes me, or not really, roto rooter was out and cabled the drain and gave them an estimate to replace after running the camera. they use a really small cutter because if I cabled it, I would have taken that line out. there was no way to tell a line was in there due to the roots.


----------



## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Hey PLBgbiz look over at the drain cleaning forum I did an update on using water to remove a sag when pipe bursting.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

. . . .


----------



## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

What exactly pipe bursting


----------



## BuckeyeBowhunte (May 4, 2011)

i still don't get how you were setting up and had sold the pipe burst already, without camera'ing the line to see what was going on... but i guess i'm a noob like that.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

We had already camerad the sewer. The line was choked with tree roots. Its just like when you have a collapsed line how much can you see on a camera? Most likely water paper and poo. We would never burst a line if was not needed. But when do you call it quits with snaking? 20 times? 30 times? When the line is so deteriated that you have to excavate? We have been in the sewer business for 3 generations. We don't sell something a person doesn't need. It would have costed this lady a whole lot more then the 5000 grand we charged her to excavate 12ft. Deep through the front yard. Through the house walk. Through the city walk. And into the middle of the street. That's after you tore off her 10 wide pedastal porch and cut down the 100 year old oak tree that. Caused the problem. If it wasn't. For a utility locate and good camera/locate work what would have happened? I'm open ears on this one!


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

bulldozer said:


> We had already camerad the sewer. The line was choked with tree roots. Its just like when you have a collapsed line how much can you see on a camera? Most likely water paper and poo. We would never burst a line if was not needed. But when do you call it quits with snaking? 20 times? 30 times? When the line is so deteriated that you have to excavate? We have been in the sewer business for 3 generations. We don't sell something a person doesn't need. It would have costed this lady a whole lot more then the 5000 grand we charged her to excavate 12ft. Deep through the front yard. Through the house walk. Through the city walk. And into the middle of the street. That's after you tore off her 10 wide pedastal porch and cut down the 100 year old oak tree that. Caused the problem. If it wasn't. For a utility locate and good camera/locate work what would have happened? I'm open ears on this one!



I'm having a hard time understanding how a 4" gas main came to be on private property. 

Utilities are granted a great deal of latitude when it comes to transiting their product thru, over and under privately owned property, but even they have to follow the rules when it comes to providing 'As-Built' records for the conveyance system to the AHJ.

Did you pull a sewer card before you began excavation? If you did, was the presence of the NG service, let alone its size, depth and operating pressure noted on the card?

This all sounds kind of fishy to me.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

You are correct that utilities are supposed to run in a set easement taken from usually the center of the road. Or right of way plot plan. Just like the titanic was unsinkable! I'm not sure what your excavation experience is if any but if you are foolish enough to rely on an as built that says it all. An as built is just that. A lazy inspector on a cold day ohh how deep was that connection? Did you put stone around that pipe? Enough said. We have been on projects where they have no records of things installed 5 years ago. If your directional drilling down the side of a road and have a tight radius turn are you gonna tell me that sub who is usually working for peanuts is going to say whoops I jumped out of the easement! Do over. Right. We install close to 100,000 ft. Of pipe per year bursting. Boring. Or open trench and the only thing I would trust an as built for is clean up in the porta pot from the one who wrote it.


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

bulldozer said:


> You are correct that utilities are supposed to run in a set easement taken from usually the center of the road. Or right of way plot plan. Just like the titanic was unsinkable! I'm not sure what your excavation experience is if any but if you are foolish enough to rely on an as built that says it all. An as built is just that. A lazy inspector on a cold day ohh how deep was that connection? Did you put stone around that pipe? Enough said. We have been on projects where they have no records of things installed 5 years ago. If your directional drilling down the side of a road and have a tight radius turn are you gonna tell me that sub who is usually working for peanuts is going to say whoops I jumped out of the easement! Do over. Right. We install close to 100,000 ft. Of pipe per year bursting. Boring. Or open trench and the only thing I would trust an as built for is clean up in the porta pot from the one who wrote it.


We're talking about a 4" NG service of indeterminate delivered pressure here allegedly run thru private property. Given the the advances in GPS location technology over the past 20 years have you calculated the odds of that happening?

Yeah, pardon my skepticism.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Trust me I'm with you. I don't want to come across attacking. We don't experience situations like this daily. I only posted it for others to learn from what we found as I enjoy learning from others on the zone. I can see how this happened {not saying its right}. We had a power main that was bored on top of an 8 inch sewer main and when they pulled the reamer head back hit every bell of pipe. Weird things happen in this business


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

bulldozer said:


> Trust me I'm with you. I don't want to come across attacking. We don't experience situations like this daily. I only posted it for others to learn from what we found as I enjoy learning from others on the zone. I can see how this happened {not saying its right}. We had a power main that was bored on top of an 8 inch sewer main and when they pulled the reamer head back hit every bell of pipe. Weird things happen in this business


We're talking about a 4" main of indeterminate delivered pressure here, right?

Still a skeptic.


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I fixed a half dozen last year. Electric bored thru. 

4000 volts. I was kinda pissed when they showed up and told me what it was, after chewing on it for a half hour with the big cutter.

Tell me your sphincter don't pucker up when you see the red pipe on the monitor.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

There is 6 to 8 inch lines ran through farms with no as built drawings found all the time. There is a transmission line from the southern states travelling through ohio and only half of it is recorded on an as built. Things go in the ground things are forgotten about things are sometimes found. By the way if you read my post we had to burst to the center of the street. There is storm sewer water power and gas in a 25 ft easement. Then along comes the replacement line. Where are you gonna drill?


----------



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

bulldozer said:


> There is 6 to 8 inch lines ran through farms with no as built drawings found all the time. There is a transmission line from the southern states travelling through ohio and only half of it is recorded on an as built. Things go in the ground things are forgotten about things are sometimes found. By the way if you read my post we had to burst to the center of the street. There is storm sewer water power and gas in a 25 ft easement. Then along comes the replacement line. Where are you gonna drill?


Saying I'm a skeptic isn't the same as calling you a liar.

You have the benefit of my doubt.

I'm just appalled better records weren't kept by the Utilities.


----------



## bulldozer (Jan 11, 2009)

Its all good. No harm taken.


----------



## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

We had one about 20yrs ago in Scottsdale, Az where the phone company drilled through one. But we cut the lines and got the line open till replacment. Wasnt till a whole city block called to say their phone was out it was figured out. The Phone company paid for the ladys sewer replacment.


----------

