# Anyone self taught?



## Kpwplumb (Dec 28, 2015)

As some of you may have read in my "bad day" post I am pretty inexperienced when it comes to drain cleaning. With that being said I am not scared of it and don't mind doing it when need be. I know drain cleaning can be very profitable and as i take this year to come up with a gameplan on going out on my own I think this is a service that I would like to offer.
My question is any of you guys just pick it up and learn on your own?

I have been doing research here and on the ridgid forum And feel like in addition to the ram and k-45 I already have the k-7500 & k-3800 should be able to tackle most projects.
I also have 2 contacts that are home inspectors and they recommend to all clients They should have the main sewer inspected. Neither has someone they refer the business to... both have told me once I get established they would refer that work to me.
I have been eyeing the cs6 & standard 200' reel.

Do you guys who are a OMS feel like once word got out you had a camera calls starts coming in for it to be put to use?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks in advance


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Field taught for me, in California they don't require school, I spent 2-3 years with an owner operator, got to go on every job big or small. Then worked for a company and they pretty much threw you out on your own, spent 10 years there. Been on my own for 5 years and learned so much more flying solo. It really helps figuring it on your own. I'm glad I found this forum to learn and help out others in the trade, especially when one day I'm plumbing the next I'm doing heat/air. I'm a licensed contractor c-20/c-36


----------



## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

I learned basic diagnosis and sectional operation in the Air Force. When I got out I started working at roto rooter and learned drums and how to fight roots. I only rode for 6 weeks before I was put into a truck on my own. From there I developed my own style and blade setups(we used home made tandem cutters at roto everyone's crazy blade and finger leaders are different according to what they wanted to do, when I left I had 15 different blade setups, each with its own purpose) the camera helped me fine tune everything. What an offset feels like, what a break feels like, how to jump a cavity, what orangeburg feels like(especially squished orangeburg has it's own very distinct feel). So I am a mixture I guess. Taught the basics and how not to kill myself by a master(guy has been cleaning sewers for 30 years) taught drain diagnosis and basic skills in the Air Force. And then (semi) mastered the art(yes drain cleaning is definetly an art) through experience and the camera.

The camera is more than a sales tool(but it is an excellent one). It's also very helpful in preventing call backs and teaching you what works or dosn't work.

You atleast need to learn the basics from a seasoned pro though. 90 minutes of frustration from a difficult drain is THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES. Your main concern is figuring out how to fight roots without loosing any fingers. Or worse....


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

The company I started out with gave you 2-4 weeks to learn before you were on to sink or swim. Once you completed your checklist; 1 main, 1 kitchen drain... out of the nest you go. I honestly did everything I could not to use the camera unless the job required it. Monthly rent of the machines and beeper alone cut into my paycheck enough without having to rent the camera or jetter. To make a profit with those you had to sell @$800/hr and being green it never worked out. 

I lasted just over a year working for them and just about gave up on drain cleaning and plumbing all together. 

So I pretty much learned on my own other than "Try this... try that...". When I got back into drain cleaning I was able to work with a couple of different guys. Each had developed their own ways and I took what worked for me from each. I've trained a half dozen guys and the first thing I tell them is "What works for me might not work for you, and when you find what does work for you, it wont work for me." The basics always apply, but it's your own unique style and learned skill set that makes you good or OK.

A camera is a tetering point. Sounds like you have a good chance to dive in, but you have to find out what the demand really is. One house inspection a month... five.... As with everything else it will fluctuate.


----------



## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

When I started-we didn't own or even know about
Impact screwgun
Sds hammer drill
Chalk laser
Sewer camera
Sectional Rodders
Dewalt 2 speed holesaws
Wet cut electric concrete saws
Battery tools
Auto feeding sewer rods 

I had to do a dryer vent with a Milwaukee right angle. I slowly bought everything myself and self taught job by job how to be a better plumber.
Folding ruler 1.414 2.613,


----------



## cable or root (Oct 7, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> The company I started out with gave you 2-4 weeks to learn before you were on to sink or swim. Once you completed your checklist; 1 main, 1 kitchen drain... out of the nest you go. I honestly did everything I could not to use the camera unless the job required it. Monthly rent of the machines and beeper alone cut into my paycheck enough without having to rent the camera or jetter. To make a profit with those you had to sell @$800/hr and being green it never worked out.
> 
> I lasted just over a year working for them and just about gave up on drain cleaning and plumbing all together.
> 
> ...


You were an employee who had to rent equipment from your employer? Were you atleast making 40+% commission? That's rough.


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

No See Snakes, no cameras... gut feel only


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

cable or root said:


> You were an employee who had to rent equipment from your employer? Were you atleast making 40+% commission? That's rough.


It's been a long time, but we had to use our own truck, gas, cell if we opted for one (otherwise you borrowed the HO's phone to call and say you were done), tools.. rented equipment, and any and all stock for your truck and parts used came out of your daily totals. We got two paychecks... IIRC, and I may be off a bit, but not by much... One was 14%, this one was not taxed and compensation for use of your vehicle and gas, the other was taxed normally which started at 20% and went up a percent or two per $*** amount with a cap of 28% (minus equipment rental and parts purchased).

I decided to call it quits when I'd get a week with only three calls making $1.48 after gas was factored in. Don't get me wrong though, some weeks I'd log 80-100 hours. 32 hours straight was the longest I worked and had a real nice paycheck. They called me up six hours later and told me I had enough rest. Got to the job and wound up trying to catch my falling sled with my pinky. The sled won. Long story.

We all worked under 1 master licence (out of Sacramento, we were in San Diego) and on week three I was running jackhammers and excavators and installing heaters without any supervision. At the time, thinking that was the industry standard I came to the conclusion plumbing was not for me. Thinking back I feel embarrassed and ashamed at the work I did.


----------



## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Pretty much self taught on drain cleaning. I wish I could show you the pile of cables I scrapped learning. It is horrible.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Does two weeks of training mean I wasn't self taught? 

I didn't even know how a urinal fill was attached to the top or how a trap might connect to the bottom. Didn't know what order to disassemble a vacuum breaker so I ended up taking it almost all the way apart to pull the toilet, guess how long it took to reattach without leaking? 

There were days I wanted to cry, the only luck I had was not having gotten anything flung in my face for the first couples months, still don't know how I got that lucky. 

Did you know that a snake could break your wrist? I didn't, boy the first couple times that shot out of the pipe I was like a deer in headlights, luckily no break, pulled a muscle real good the second time though, luckily it was friday. 

Did you know that before you pull a toilet you should pull the shower curtain back to see if the tub if full? or at least have a shop-vac ready.....

And for some reason I like drain snaking.....guess I'm just a thrill seeker. Some days the only thing that keeps me going is knowing that eventually I will work for my self and the money will finally be worth it.


----------



## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

saysflushable said:


> Pretty much self taught on drain cleaning. I wish I could show you the pile of cables I scrapped learning. It is horrible.



You know how many repair heads I went through the first 6 months?


----------



## Greg755 (Sep 16, 2015)

Pretty much self taught. Almost every thing I learned was through trial and error but then again I always ask others a lot of questions even to this day. So when you think about it I guess I have been taught by hundreds of people.... The best thing you can do is get your hands on the code book for your area, follow that up by getting as many plumbing diagrams/blueprints that you can from local builders. Eventually you know how things are plumbed ( or should be plumbed) which helps you determine how to go about the job. Of course there are always exceptions to the rules because people don't know what they are doing or try to take short cuts when the build/repair a plumbing system...
Today it is much better because you can get a camera and see most of the problems before you even get started... Back in the day it was *all* by feel, going in blind. You had to rely on your knowledge or gut feelings...


----------



## The Plumber Man (Sep 27, 2015)

I was taught how to turn the machine on and cut loose. I was lucky,or should i say unlucky,i was a natural...lol..


----------



## dragit (Jan 16, 2015)

I was an apprentice who was thrown into a service truck within a few months of starting. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, so basic plumbing was pretty simple to understand.

After a few years of running service calls we started taking drain cleaning calls. Besides knowing how things are SUPPOSED to be plumbed, I knew nothing about cleaning drains.

And I still don't. Hell I broke a connector off one of my cables today. But I'm learning and this year I have started to be relatively successful at it (compared to my first few years of struggling with it).


----------



## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

I cut the drop head off my 1/4" cable. 105 yr old house with an abandoned second floor 2" kitchen waste. Cut it out after 15 minutes of hell 4 feet of rust blockage! Still learning after 18 years.


----------



## dragit (Jan 16, 2015)

KoleckeINC said:


> I cut the drop head off my 1/4" cable. 105 yr old house with an abandoned second floor 2" kitchen waste. Cut it out after 15 minutes of hell 4 feet of rust blockage! Still learning after 18 years.


That's kind of what happened to me. Old house that had been vacant for some time. Was running the cable through a 2" cast iron vent, which apparently turned into 1.5" copper in the wall. Copper dropped into the crawler, went through two 45*s and back into 2"cast. The two inch cast was too to bottom filled with rock hard build up.

Broke a cable (my bad) and then proceeded to cut 30 foot of the cast out and replaced with PVC.

On the bright side, I got a cable to make a reverse auger with now


----------



## KoleckeINC (Oct 22, 2011)

I had to go "through" a 4" sanitary cross on its back and up a 2" sink drain for the apartment above a funeral home once. Rust and construction debris from a remodel. Took a looooooong time. I was glad they left me a 3.5" c.o. And that it was unoccupied at the time.


----------



## Sterling_Craft (Feb 24, 2016)

Best way to learn is to get out there and do it. All you really need is to be safety conscious, since that is really the biggest danger. Try to keep your mouth closed, wear eye protection, don't get your hair or beard near the cable (trust me it hurts), and wear leather gloves. Keep yourself protected and the rest will be fine. Pipe is pretty tough, even when it looks like it could crumble in your hand. Always tell the customer that the snake has the potential to damage old and weak piping, or pipes that were not properly put together and if the pipe gets damaged you can fix it, but not for free.

I bought a K-400 and a K-45 and was really hesitant to run any calls that sounded like a main line issue for about a year, since that K-400 was the largest thing I had at my disposal. I finally said "what is the worst that can happen" if I try to clear some main lines and I found out that this little machine can handle anything but real heavy roots. If I can't clear it, I cut my losses and refer them to another company that has the big toys, jetters, and cameras that I know will treat them as well as I do. Just give it a go, cables can be replaced. 

And don't underestimate what you can do with one of those little handheld drum augers. Those skinny little cables will get you out of a jam sooner or later. I bought one of those little Ridgid ones for $5 at a flea market and I can't tell you how many times it cleared a line for me. Plus if you destroy it you're not out anything.


----------



## MACK ATTAKK (Jan 11, 2015)

Sterling_Craft said:


> Best way to learn is to get out there and do it. All you really need is to be safety conscious, since that is really the biggest danger. Try to keep your mouth closed, wear eye protection, don't get your hair or beard near the cable (trust me it hurts), and wear leather gloves. Keep yourself protected and the rest will be fine. Pipe is pretty tough, even when it looks like it could crumble in your hand. Always tell the customer that the snake has the potential to damage old and weak piping, or pipes that were not properly put together and if the pipe gets damaged you can fix it, but not for free. I bought a K-400 and a K-45 and was really hesitant to run any calls that sounded like a main line issue for about a year, since that K-400 was the largest thing I had at my disposal. I finally said "what is the worst that can happen" if I try to clear some main lines and I found out that this little machine can handle anything but real heavy roots. If I can't clear it, I cut my losses and refer them to another company that has the big toys, jetters, and cameras that I know will treat them as well as I do. Just give it a go, cables can be replaced. And don't underestimate what you can do with one of those little handheld drum augers. Those skinny little cables will get you out of a jam sooner or later. I bought one of those little Ridgid ones for $5 at a flea market and I can't tell you how many times it cleared a line for me. Plus if you destroy it you're not out anything.


Yes and no. But I agree.


----------



## dragit (Jan 16, 2015)

Sterling_Craft said:


> Best way to learn is to get out there and do it. All you really need is to be safety conscious, since that is really the biggest danger. Try to keep your mouth closed, wear eye protection, don't get your hair or beard near the cable (trust me it hurts), and wear leather gloves. Keep yourself protected and the rest will be fine. Pipe is pretty tough, even when it looks like it could crumble in your hand. Always tell the customer that the snake has the potential to damage old and weak piping, or pipes that were not properly put together and if the pipe gets damaged you can fix it, but not for free.
> 
> I bought a K-400 and a K-45 and was really hesitant to run any calls that sounded like a main line issue for about a year, since that K-400 was the largest thing I had at my disposal. I finally said "what is the worst that can happen" if I try to clear some main lines and I found out that this little machine can handle anything but real heavy roots. If I can't clear it, I cut my losses and refer them to another company that has the big toys, jetters, and cameras that I know will treat them as well as I do. Just give it a go, cables can be replaced.
> 
> And don't underestimate what you can do with one of those little handheld drum augers. Those skinny little cables will get you out of a jam sooner or later. I bought one of those little Ridgid ones for $5 at a flea market and I can't tell you how many times it cleared a line for me. Plus if you destroy it you're not out anything.


That's all I used for years. I had no idea how much it was holding me back till I tried a better machine. The k400 is a toy. It will poke holes in main blockages... And clean secondary lines.. But I have 3 or 4 of them laying around unused now


----------



## Roto-Rooter (Jan 31, 2015)

Dad started the business in 1952 and I learned from him. Roto-Rooter was basically new back then so he was self taught. He had learned a lot by the time I was ready to work with him. I did go with him as a tike but that was fun. When I started to work it was to learn NOT to get hurt. It has broke my hand twice and I have said "The first time I was smarter than Dad the second time just careless. It does take time to learn the art of drain cleaning. You are not going to learn overnight. You are going to make mistakes and you are going to look bad a few times. It's just going to happen. Right now I am teaching my son. He has been with me for 2 years and still has a lot to learn. I hope to be able to cut him loose soon but I will still be around if he has trouble. I'm 66 now and want to slow down!!!!!!!!


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Never had a camera coming up. Was in business for 15yrs before I got my first one. So yeah, you can learn and get by without it. The difference is today most shops you are competing against have access to a camera. So they are shooting fish in a barrel while you are still fishing.

The trade has changed and keeping pace with technology is more important. I started out with a roll of quarters and stopped at pay phones. But now I could not imagine being the only plumber without a cell phone.


----------



## Roto-Rooter (Jan 31, 2015)

plbgbiz said:


> Never had a camera coming up. Was in business for 15yrs before I got my first one. So yeah, you can learn and get by without it. The difference is today most shops you are competing against have access to a camera. So they are shooting fish in a barrel while you are still fishing.
> 
> The trade has changed and keeping pace with technology is more important. I started out with a roll of quarters and stopped at pay phones. But now I could not imagine being the only plumber without a cell phone.


Right now I can't even find a pay phone


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Roto-Rooter said:


> Right now I can't even find a pay phone


It's right next to our 8-track. lol


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Just in case a call comes in while I'm in my basement...


----------



## Kpwplumb (Dec 28, 2015)

Thanks for all the tips and Insight. 
I guess I'm just having a hard time taking the plunge. I'd like to get the stuff now while still working for someone else so I can pay for it... Hopefully then ill start out close to debt free. 
I also don't want to get a drain call from a new client and have to say I don't do that.
Would hate to turn work away.


----------



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Kpwplumb said:


> Thanks for all the tips and Insight.
> I guess I'm just having a hard time taking the plunge. I'd like to get the stuff now while still working for someone else so I can pay for it... Hopefully then ill start out close to debt free.
> I also don't want to get a drain call from a new client and have to say I don't do that.
> Would hate to turn work away.


If you know how to operate a drain machine safely book the call and rent one. It's all about acquiring new customers. Buy one when you can afford it.


----------

