# Only down in florida I guess....



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I stumbled onto these pictures on another site talking about defects appearing in Wirsbo Aquapex....
This guy was not worried about all the joints he laid under this slab but more worried about will the 
fittings spit and fail some day..... 

When we did slab rough every joint was above the slab installed into a manifold
and only full runs were allowed under concrete with no joints...covered with aramaflex.

I dont even know what the green drain lines are all about or what kind of lame ass
pipe was being used here

How many people would be ok with whole manifolds under a slab rough??


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

The green pipe is thin wall sewer pipe and is probably being used for the AC refrigerant and drain lines.

Manifolds are never to be buried beneath the slab. No joints under the slab except brazed…..

The pipe can’t run in the same ditch rubbing each other…..

That would fail inspection anywhere.

Mark,
Why are you roughing in jobs in Florida ?

J/k 🤡


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> The green pipe is thin wall sewer pipe and is probably being used for the AC refrigerant and drain lines.
> 
> Manifolds are never to be buried beneath the slab. No joints under the slab except brazed…..
> 
> ...


Now, that hurt me deeeeep
I got this picture off of Terry Loves site

you are probably right about the green stuff... it looks like
white pvc deep is under those lines in the trench...


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## Sstratton6175 (Jan 10, 2021)

Disclaimer: In no way shape or form do I think this is an appropriate install.

I am wondering, by the way those manifolds are all bunched together in one spot if they’re planning on boxing out the concrete to accommodate some kind of access to the connections.


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## DDDave (Aug 6, 2014)

Sstratton6175 said:


> Disclaimer: In no way shape or form do I think this is an appropriate install.
> 
> I am wondering, by the way those manifolds are all bunched together in one spot if they’re planning on boxing out the concrete to accommodate some kind of access to the connections.


Doesn’t look that organized


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Sstratton6175 said:


> Disclaimer: In no way shape or form do I think this is an appropriate install.
> 
> I am wondering, by the way those manifolds are all bunched together in one spot if they’re planning on boxing out the concrete to accommodate some kind of access to the connections.



He said in his post that he was concerned about the splitting at where the expansion clamps started on the pipe
but it was too late to worry about this because they had already poured the concrete...
I assume its all been buried alive back in early spring 2022.    

Its not my problem


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Pex A is grade A garbage. I'm a copper guy. 

Not a big fan of the Buna-N orings in the propress fittings, I wish they were Viton as stock. I will use propress in exposed areas. 90% of what I put in is sweat copper. I do install some pex, but again, only in a few instances and we use Viega crimp pex(B) with machined bronze fittings.

When we run any potable or heat lines(other than radiant) under a slab we bury no joints and it's all sleeved with armaflex and even the insulation joints are taped. Mind you we have very few slab runs here as almost all houses have basements. We also don't usually install manifolds, we'll run a main and branch off, makes more sense for large houses with HW re-circ loop(s).


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

That's terrible plumbing. Future repair work for our kids.......


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> That's terrible plumbing. Future repair work for our kids.......



It makes me wonder how long those joints will last under concrete,,
someone will be in tears some day tearing up that floor and finding that mess
down in that hole


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> It makes me wonder how long those joints will last under concrete,,
> someone will be in tears some day tearing up that floor and finding that mess
> down in that hole


Looks like they'll get a rock or seven jamming into the pipe/fitting. 

We don't do concrete with some rare exceptions so for us this wouldn't be any worse than working in any other trench where someone else digs it up.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

I would repipe that house if I found a mess like that with a leak. I’d go through the attic with new pipe, welcome to the south. 🫶


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> The green pipe is thin wall sewer pipe and is probably being used for the AC refrigerant and drain lines.
> 
> Manifolds are never to be buried beneath the slab. No joints under the slab except brazed…..
> 
> ...


He’s cutting into your business Terry lololololo


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

sparky said:


> He’s cutting into your business Terry lololololo


I don’t do new construction 👍

It’s looks and smells like a dive bar at the supply house with a the new construction crews there.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I don’t do new construction 👍
> 
> It’s looks and smells like a dive bar at the supply house with a the new construction crews there.



Our business is now down to hacks and illegals installing and the real plumbers coming back in behind them....................


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

dhal22 said:


> Our business is now down to hacks and illegals installing and the real plumbers coming back in behind them....................


Let em. Job security.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Let em. Job security.



That's my point. A good bit of what we do is fixing crappy plumbing. Keep at it guys............


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Were roughing in a little slab tomorrow. We will be using pex, home runs to the 3 exterior spigots. everything else will be in the walls on the stack out. those pics though, that 30/34 with the 1/8 bend and riser is more than likely an ac chase line. Terry knows what hes seeing there. A lot of dryer vents in this area done the same way but with a 90 at the riser. we get a couple calls a year to come suck the water out of them. most of the stub out below grade, and turned up again. so theres no where for the moisture to go. but that water pipe is bullsh!t. what ever inspector let that fly needs his asss whooped.


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## Steveking (May 16, 2014)

Seeing problems in Otay water district on the hot water line with a circulation pump the hot water line is turning yellow and the ink marking is faded and not readable cold line is fine I just finished re piping in copper type L eliminated recirculate line .


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Steveking said:


> Seeing problems in Otay water district on the hot water line with a circulation pump the hot water line is turning yellow and the ink marking is faded and not readable cold line is fine I just finished re piping in copper type L eliminated recirculate line .


Wow, 8 yrs and only 94 posts???? Burning it up bro lololol


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Were roughing in a little slab tomorrow. We will be using pex, home runs to the 3 exterior spigots. everything else will be in the walls on the stack out. those pics though, that 30/34 with the 1/8 bend and riser is more than likely an ac chase line. Terry knows what hes seeing there. A lot of dryer vents in this area done the same way but with a 90 at the riser. we get a couple calls a year to come suck the water out of them. most of the stub out below grade, and turned up again. so theres no where for the moisture to go. but that water pipe is bullsh!t. what ever inspector let that fly needs his asss whooped.



With pex do you cover the lines under the slab rough or just where they come
up through the concrete???? Most say you dont need it at all on pex but I wonder
if it is wise to do anyway?? Some day that chit is gonna leak but you might be dead 
by then so who cares I guess.....

When I used to do 2 bathroom slab homes, , saving a few dollars was never on my mind .....
with type L soft copper I used to put aramaflex covering on both the hot and cold 
lines completely under the slab......It probably cost me another 50 bucks at that time
but that was all the way back in 79 and we have never heard of anything going bad yet....


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> With pex do you cover the lines under the slab rough or just where they come
> up through the concrete???? Most say you dont need it at all on pex but I wonder
> if it is wise to do anyway?? Some day that chit is gonna leak but you might be dead
> by then so who cares I guess.....
> ...


Just where it passes through the slab. No one would want to pay to have copper insualted in the slab. I’ve done that once on a million dollar home in 22yrs. Copper doesn’t do well in slabs down here. There are some soils that will eat it alive. I can’t remember the last time I used copper on a slab. It’s been 15yrs or more. But all commercial jobs even if it specs cpvc I use copper.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Just where it passes through the slab. No one would want to pay to have copper insualted in the slab. I’ve done that once on a million dollar home in 22yrs. Copper doesn’t do well in slabs down here. There are some soils that will eat it alive. I can’t remember the last time I used copper on a slab. It’s been 15yrs or more. But all commercial jobs even if it specs cpvc I use copper.


Well it might be more expensive to insulate copper lines in a slab but 
I have never worried about the 50-100 bucks more that was gonna come out of 
my pocket... I just did not want to hear any chit down the road from ground up 
hot water lines in the slab...

If it were my own home I would 100% certainly insulate everything...


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Master Mark said:


> Well it might be more expensive to insulate copper lines in a slab but
> I have never worried about the 50-100 bucks more that was gonna come out of
> my pocket... I just did not want to hear any chit down the road from ground up
> hot water lines in the slab...
> ...


Insulation costs more than the pipe when you’re running pex buddy.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Insulation costs more than the pipe when you’re running pex buddy.


probably true, but for my own home it would be done for sure

whats money anyway..?? 
Sparky says I am working on my second million so what me worry??


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> Well it might be more expensive to insulate copper lines in a slab but
> I have never worried about the 50-100 bucks more that was gonna come out of
> my pocket... I just did not want to hear any chit down the road from ground up
> hot water lines in the slab...
> ...



the material cost is one part, but the additional labor to install is another. 2 bath house with about 4 manifolds, and 5 home runs for spigots, ice maker ect, id charge at least another grand to do that.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> probably true, but for my own home it would be done for sure
> 
> whats money anyway..??
> Sparky says I am working on my second million so what me worry??


Mark, I think you're MAD.

We always completely insulate lines under slab, pex or copper.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> whats money anyway..??


you can’t take it with you.. 
my grandma always said you never see a Brinks truck following a hearse!


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Logtec said:


> you can’t take it with you..
> my grandma always said you never see a Brinks truck following a hearse!


I did once, but it was probably just a fluke.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> I did once, but it was probably just a fluke.


Hahah, 
once I saw a blind guy leading a blind guy.. both had canes..


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Master Mark said:


> probably true, but for my own home it would be done for sure
> 
> whats money anyway..??
> Sparky says I am working on my second million so what me worry??


Why would you use pex instead of copper ?

I doubt you’d use pex, I could understand the idea behind insulating the copper but most people who use pex do so because of the price difference. Not always, but mostly. Some places the water and soil are not copper friendly. You can protect the copper but then it becomes even more expensive to install and/or possibly maintain with treatment and filtering.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Why would you use pex instead of copper ?
> 
> I doubt you’d use pex, I could understand the idea behind insulating the copper but most people who use pex do so because of the price difference. Not always, but mostly. Some places the water and soil are not copper friendly. You can protect the copper but then it becomes even more expensive to install and/or possibly maintain with treatment and filtering.



I really dont care what they throw underground... pex or copper and ANYTHING is
better than throwing cpvc underground with glued joints too....

they throw the pex under slabs here and they feel it does not need any kind of covering
on both hot and cold lines....

I realize it will last out the warranty of one year but that is just not the level of quality
I would like to be stuck with if were my house..


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## RyanPlumber1982 (Mar 19, 2017)

Master Mark said:


> I stumbled onto these pictures on another site talking about defects appearing in Wirsbo Aquapex....
> This guy was not worried about all the joints he laid under this slab but more worried about will the
> fittings spit and fail some day.....
> 
> ...


I’ve got a buddy who owns a plumbing company in Ocala and sends me pics of other Jack legs doing this stuff all the time.
I’ve been doing plumbing 17 years in TN and I did for 1 year in Florida. Now we run Wirsbo pex in slabs but yes - no way are we putting joints/fittings in the slab.
Now I’m not justifying those pics or manifolds in a slab but I would trust pex and it’s fittings over Cpvc anyway if the week. I’ve ran Wirsbo for all my 17 years and the only split I’ve ever seen was on a 1/2” recirc return line.
That plumber probably left a roll of pex in the sink light for however long breaking it down.
It kills me that plumbers in FL still run that garbage to this day. 
We can’t pull Cpvc out of the walls fast enough here.


Master Mark said:


> I stumbled onto these pictures on another site talking about defects appearing in Wirsbo Aquapex....
> This guy was not worried about all the joints he laid under this slab but more worried about will the
> fittings spit and fail some day.....
> 
> ...


I’ve got a buddy who owns a plumbing company in Ocala and sends me pics of other Jack legs doing this stuff all the time.
I’ve been doing plumbing 17 years in TN and I did for 1 year in Florida. Now we run Wirsbo pex in slabs but yes - no way are we putting joints/fittings in the slab.
Now I’m not justifying those pics or manifolds in a slab but I would trust pex and it’s fittings over Cpvc anyway if the week. I’ve ran Wirsbo for all my 17 years and the only split I’ve ever seen was on a 1/2” recirc return line.
That plumber probably left a roll of pex in the sun light for however long breaking it down.
It kills me that plumbers in FL still run that garbage to this day. 
We can’t pull Cpvc out of the walls fast enough here.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Why would you use pex instead of copper ?
> 
> I doubt you’d use pex, I could understand the idea behind insulating the copper but most people who use pex do so because of the price difference. Not always, but mostly. Some places the water and soil are not copper friendly. You can protect the copper but then it becomes even more expensive to install and/or possibly maintain with treatment and filtering.


I have used both pex and l copper and it appears I am more fond of the wirsbo pex over running the copper..

Yesterday I just cleaned out our back building where I had about 5 partial rolls of 3/4 
type L and k copper just hanging on some hooks in the back room.... the stuff has
been sitting in the dark since about 1998 and I had no plans on ever using it.. 
The last slab I did with that copper was for some jack-leg that I had to about kill to get paid
so I swore off slab construction back in 1998

I did not want the stuff just laying around waiting for some crack head to break in 
and steal some day so 
I took it to the scrap yard and got about 500 bucks out of the clean copper and 
another 150 out of some #2 copper....


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## Steveking (May 16, 2014)

sparky said:


> Wow, 8 yrs and only 94 posts???? Burning it up bro lololol


Well I was offering insight to pex pipe I’m not on this website hourly so be proud that you posted ten million times and complain about everything sucks .


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Steveking said:


> Well I was offering insight to pex pipe I’m not on this website hourly so be proud that you posted ten million times and complain about everything sucks .


You have better things to do than sit around looking at this site...

thats a good thing.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> the material cost is one part, but the additional labor to install is another. 2 bath house with about 4 manifolds, and 5 home runs for spigots, ice maker ect, id charge at least another grand to do that.


Right on,it's not the cost of the rubbatex but the time and labor it takes to install that crap on a bunch of waterlines under slab


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Steveking said:


> Well I was offering insight to pex pipe I’m not on this website hourly so be proud that you posted ten million times and complain about everything sucks .


Nobody is complaining hoss,just trying to get ya to participate more,and no one is on here hour after hour day in day out


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> You have better things to do than sit around looking at this site...
> 
> thats a good thing.


Maybe he does,maybe he dont lolololo


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> Maybe he does,maybe he dont lolololo


I just get on here to look at while I drink my morning coffe 
and then go take a big dump... 🤠 🤠


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> I just get on here to look at while I drink my morning coffe
> and then go take a big dump... 🤠 🤠


 I read the PZ forums every morning as I feed my toilet…


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Logtec said:


> I read the PZ forums every morning as I feed my toilet…


I find that PZ relaxes me and I usually drop a huge brick in the john.... 🤠 🤠


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I read and interact here when I have the time and just for relaxing. Generally my responses are all evening replies.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

We had to insulate some pex in a crawl space today for this know nothing inspector. It really pissed me off.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> We had to insulate some pex in a crawl space today for this know nothing inspector. It really pissed me off.


So he’s requiring pipe in attics and crawlspace be insulated. 

Sounds legit breh


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> So he’s requiring pipe in attics and crawlspace be insulated.
> 
> Sounds legit breh


Its a sealed crawlspace, with dehu. it was BS.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Its a sealed crawlspace, with dehu. it was BS.


Ask that stupid SOB why he doesn’t require frost proof hose bibbs.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Ask that stupid SOB why he doesn’t require frost proof hose bibbs.


Breh it just doesn’t get that cold around here, last hard freeze we had was the 2013 national championship game. Backflows were spraying everywhere and half the damn town was in pasedena. We turned them off and stuck a card in the door.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Breh it just doesn’t get that cold around here, last hard freeze we had was the 2013 national championship game. Backflows were spraying everywhere and half the damn town was in pasedena. We turned them off and stuck a card in the door.


I realize that. I basically live down the skreet from youz

I was questioning his logic. Requires insulation on pipe but doesn’t require hose Bibb protection.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I realize that. I basically live down the skreet from youz
> 
> I was questioning his logic. Requires insulation on pipe but doesn’t require hose Bibb protection.


Ah. Gotcha. He also missed the vaccum breakers on the exterior spigots. I had them on site, but was testing him. He looked right at them but didn’t say anything about. 👀


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I realize that. I basically live down the skreet from youz
> 
> I was questioning his logic. Requires insulation on pipe but doesn’t require hose Bibb protection.


Insulation stops condensate and energy loss, it does almost nothing to prevent freezing. In fact, insulating the line to a sillcock will make the pipe more likely to freeze as it can't get heat as quickly from inside the home. It loses heat at the sillcock. We have some sillcocks around here that are 100yrs old and have never frozen because the pipe going to them gets so much heat from in the home.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

skoronesa said:


> Insulation stops condensate and energy loss, it does almost nothing to prevent freezing. In fact, insulating the line to a sillcock will make the pipe more likely to freeze as it can't get heat as quickly from inside the home. It loses heat at the sillcock. We have some sillcocks around here that are 100yrs old and have never frozen because the pipe going to them gets so much heat from in the home.


Our plumbing code requires crawlspace and attic water piping be insulated. So that’s how the cookie crumbles.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I put red thread locker on faucet handle set screws. I try to look out for the next guy.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Our plumbing code requires crawlspace and attic water piping be insulated. So that’s how the cookie crumbles.


Good. I like the look of copper as much as the next guy but I think almost all water/heat lines should be insulated.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> I just get on here to look at while I drink my morning coffe
> and then go take a big dump... 🤠 🤠


TMI


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> Good. I like the look of copper as much as the next guy but I think almost all water/heat lines should be insulated.


Not I said the cat lololo


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