# issues with brass to copper connections



## Hydronictech1 (Jan 13, 2012)

Has anyone had problems lately with leaks in newly soldered brass to copper connections? We just had 8 leaks on one job, all brass to copper, no changes in materials. This is more leaks than we've had in the last two years, and it's driving us crazy. When I pull the fittings apart, the solder has made it all the way into the fitting, but clumps up instead of flowing smooth. I should mention at this point that I'm a professional hydronic heating tech, own my own company, and have soldered many thousands of fittings in my day. A Plumber friend told me that new DEQ regs have removed all lead from brass fittings, and that's what's causing this. He says they've had the same problem and many others are too. 

So, has anyone else seen this? Have you found any way to combat it? We're using 95/5 and water soluble LACO flux. thanks


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

It might be because of to much heat or the flux you are using...

what type of torch are you using.... it sounds like you are burning the flux out


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

i've had the same problems oil based flux is the way to go the water soluble flux is the issue it does not work well with new lead free brass going around now...


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

How old is your flux. Are you heating up your flux to get it pliable in cold weather. 


Flux can separate inside the container in a short period of time, that is why it is important to mix it up once in awhile.


Copper to brass connections are first to show this issue. 


What you don't want to hear is that a lot of the copper pipe connections (copper to copper) are most likely compromised as well. 

Make sure your tools aren't contaminating the pipe which then ends up on the sandcloth.


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## trick1 (Sep 18, 2008)

We are seeing a lot of issues with the low lead fittings...I use a #2 soft flame tip and my b-tank for most of my small diameter tubing and in some cases a #1 tip and still have issues.

It gets to the point where I'd almost rather use female adapters and get the brass fitting in a male pattern so that there's a mechanical joint at that connection.


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

trick1 said:


> We are seeing a lot of issues with the low lead fittings...I use a #2 soft flame tip and my b-tank for most of my small diameter tubing and in some cases a #1 tip and still have issues.
> 
> It gets to the point where I'd almost rather use female adapters and get the brass fitting in a male pattern so that there's a mechanical joint at that connection.



Like dunbar said check your flux , also make sure your brass fittings are being cleaned properly, also watch your heat when your soldering like I tell my guys don't rainbow the copper keep your heat moving.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

A lot of the water based/soluble flux's are incompatible with the new Eco-Brass -- No Korrode even started putting stickers on the lids of their containers noting this incompatibility.

Thus far, EverFlux is the best candidate I've found for soldering Eco-Brass.


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## Hydronictech1 (Jan 13, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> A lot of the water based/soluble flux's are incompatible with the new Eco-Brass -- No Korrode even started putting stickers on the lids of their containers noting this incompatibility.
> 
> Thus far, EverFlux is the best candidate I've found for soldering Eco-Brass.


Funny how no one reads the OP?!? THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE WITH TECHNIQUE OR FAULTY MATERIALS.

Widdershins, you say that everflux is the best you've found to combat the lead free brass issue, is it consistently reliable? We solder a lot of brass, and I need something that works every time or I'll soon be on the evening news, in a bad way.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Hydronictech1 said:


> Funny how no one reads the OP?!? THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE WITH TECHNIQUE.
> 
> Widdershins, you say that everflux is the best you've found to combat the lead free brass issue, is it consistently reliable? I need something that works every time or I'll soon be on the evening news, in a bad way.


 I've been using it for a few months now with no issues.

It does take a bit of clean up to avoid the nasty green streaks, though. A rag soaked in CLR will clean it up.

Here's a link to Nibco's recommendations for Eco Brass that was forwarded to me by Titan -- Note that it is a .pdf download.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

I worked for a guy that refused to clean the brass fittings he said they don't get oxidized like copper and it's a waste if time.
I disagree with his stance completely.

But is this you?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

highpoint said:


> I worked for a guy that refused to clean the brass fittings he said they don't get oxidized like copper and it's a waste if time.
> I disagree with his stance completely.
> 
> But is this you?


 You disagree with me or the guy you worked for?:confused1:


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Hydronictech1 said:


> Funny how no one reads the OP?!? THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE WITH TECHNIQUE OR FAULTY MATERIALS.


Well pi** off then. Figure your own problem out. BYE BYE :yes:


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## user7551 (Oct 21, 2011)

Hydronictech1 said:


> Funny how no one reads the OP?!? THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE WITH TECHNIQUE OR FAULTY MATERIALS.
> 
> Widdershins, you say that everflux is the best you've found to combat the lead free brass issue, is it consistently reliable? We solder a lot of brass, and I need something that works every time or I'll soon be on the evening news, in a bad way.



Well hopefully you will be on the evening news , but if you want more help post good pics of the brass you are working with so it can be identified . To see if its silicone brass or lead brass then it can be determined if its the flux or your technique


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> You disagree with me or the guy you worked for?:confused1:


The gentleman who employed me at that time


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## Hydronictech1 (Jan 13, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> I've been using it for a few months now with no issues.
> 
> It does take a bit of clean up to avoid the nasty green streaks, though. A rag soaked in CLR will clean it up.
> 
> Here's a link to Nibco's recommendations for Eco Brass that was forwarded to me by Titan -- Note that it is a .pdf download.



Thanks for the link, very helpful. What solder are you using, 95/5?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Hydronictech1 said:


> Thanks for the link, very helpful. What solder are you using, 95/5?


Bridgit 95/5 is my personal choice.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Hydronictech1;235095
[COLOR=red said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> What solder are you using, 95/5?
> [/QUOTE]
> ...


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I use 50/50 lead solder and the Oatey #5 flux (which isn't water soluble) on all my water piping.....:laughing:
> 
> You guys and your code......


That's Florida for you.:laughing:


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## Hydronictech1 (Jan 13, 2012)

Pipe Rat said:


> Well pi** off then. Figure your own problem out. BYE BYE :yes:


Hey now, I surely didn't mean to be a jerk, my apologies if I was. I was simply stating that I addressed the issue of experience/technique, and the fact that we have made no changes in product in the original post. Perhaps I should have spelled that out a bit more clearly.

Thanks for your help Widdershins.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

ChrisConnor said:


> That's Florida for you.:laughing:


It's not legal down here.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

TPWinc said:


> It's not legal down here.


 






I'm kidding.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I'm kidding.


LOL good! I figured I missed the sarcasm font. Just had to be sure because they have a whole shelf full of that stuff at our local supply house, and it ain't got dust on it!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

TPWinc said:


> LOL good! I figured I missed the sarcasm font. Just had to be sure because they have a whole shelf full of that stuff at our local supply house, and it ain't got dust on it!


 





I hear some guys use Oatey #5 on service and repairs....:whistling2:
just sayin...


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

Widdershins said:


> A lot of the water based/soluble flux's are incompatible with the new Eco-Brass -- No Korrode even started putting stickers on the lids of their containers noting this incompatibility.
> 
> Thus far, EverFlux is the best candidate I've found for soldering Eco-Brass.


The only flux I have been using for 10 years plus is "everflux". I never have problems soldering. I use canfeild lead free solder & mapp gas with turbotorch. 

I am in Calif and have been using lead free brass for a couple of years now.


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## TPWinc (May 30, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> I hear some guys use Oatey #5 on service and repairs....:whistling2:
> just sayin...


I know someone who has used it for repair work on occaison. :whistling2:


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Tommy plumber said:


> Hydronictech1;235095
> [COLOR=red said:
> 
> 
> ...


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