# Canada code question



## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Watching Holmes on homes, and the clown plumber on there direct connected the dishwasher discharge directly into the sink drain without an air gap, or even high loop. Are you allowed to connect stuff all willy nilly like that in Canada or is this guy just a clown? I know he's a clown, I saw him solder too. I guess the question is he a code abiding clown?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> Watching Holmes on homes, and the clown plumber on there direct connected the dishwasher discharge directly into the sink drain without an air gap, or even high loop. Are you allowed to connect stuff all willy nilly like that in Canada or is this guy just a clown? I know he's a clown, I saw him solder too. I guess the question is he a code abiding clown?


No air gap needed ...but high loop required by manufacture instructions


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)




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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Why would you think you need an air gap ???


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## rombo (Jul 17, 2008)

I have never seen an air gap in person. Not even sure you could purchase one in Canada.

As OS said a high loop is needed. I have noticed many dishwashers are coming with a high loops already installed.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

rombo said:


> I have never seen an air gap in person. Not even sure you could purchase one in Canada.
> 
> As OS said a high loop is needed. I have noticed many dishwashers are coming with a high loops already installed.


I have noticed that also ... It piped like that on the dishwasher already ..


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## bcp2012 (Oct 27, 2012)

rombo said:


> I have never seen an air gap in person. Not even sure you could purchase one in Canada.
> 
> As OS said a high loop is needed. I have noticed many dishwashers are coming with a high loops already installed.


I've noticed that also, but the discharge line is so long I give it a high loop in the cabinet also

Sent from my iPhone


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Why would you think you need an air gap ???


If you have a dishwasher full of clean dishes, and the drain backs up, you'll get nasty water in your dishwasher.


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## Plumbbum0203 (Dec 14, 2011)

Always high loop. No air gap here in missouri. Easy way is to drill top of cabinet and send it through. No risk of it coming down. Sounds like a plumber tech was doing the work. Did Mike Holmes want to spray foam it in place. He loves that chit.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> If you have a dishwasher full of clean dishes, and the drain backs up, you'll get nasty water in your dishwasher.


Not if the drain is looped against the underneath of the countertop... people would be pretty stupid to let a plugged sink drain flow over the top of sink rim..
Furthermore, hate those airgap crap, looks ugly and stinks like hell after a short time.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Not if the drain is looped against the underneath of the countertop... people would be pretty stupid to let a plugged sink drain flow over the top of sink rim..
> Furthermore, hate those airgap crap, looks ugly and stinks like hell after a short time.


I agree RJ....

Empty your message box


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, the state of wi requires one. Either that or a separate vented receptor for the dishwasher dishwasher discharge. It can be air breaked though.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

redbeardplumber said:


> I agree RJ....
> 
> Empty your message box


Done..


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

RW ... You ever think we might be more advance than you guys ..


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Not if the drain is looped against the underneath of the countertop... people would be pretty stupid to let a plugged sink drain flow over the top of sink rim..
> Furthermore, hate those airgap crap, looks ugly and stinks like hell after a short time.


This!:laughing:


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## mcmulld (Feb 26, 2013)

*Funny story*

I was called by a customer to check a brand new dishwasher installed by a young SEARS tech. He had been back three times and gave up . The dish washer drain was trapped separately under the floor without the loop, so it was trying to fill it but it was draining by gravity the whole time. I never laughed so hard in my life.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

mcmulld said:


> I was called by a customer to check a brand new dishwasher installed by a young SEARS tech. He had been back three times and gave up . The dish washer drain was trapped separately under the floor without the loop, so it was trying to fill it but it was draining by gravity the whole time. I never laughed so hard in my life.


Had a call after the home depot there did the kitchen cabinet/top redone, reusing the dishwasher, new disposal. HD wouldn't warranty the DW since it wasn't draining.. they didn't remove the knockout on the DW drain connection on disposal...


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## JPL (Feb 8, 2013)

We had a year or two here where some inspectors said you had to have it, and some didn't. It was frustrating. I'd have to go in the building department(s) and try to figure it out every time stone was set and ready to drill. Then you'd get a substitute inspector and it would cause problems. Sometimes we were required to show manufactures instruction to the inspector if it stated that an airgap wasn't needed. Instructions always say check local codes. Lately we're good with no airgap.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Can some one post a pic of this air gap with dishwasher.... Never exposed to one.


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)




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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

They suck. Even inspectors know it. They clog up and flood all the time. They never flow into the sink like they should. Always in countertop then to floor. Did I mention they suck?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

johntheplumber said:


> They suck. Even inspectors know it. They clog up and flood all the time. They never flow into the sink like they should. Always in countertop then to floor. Did I mention they suck?


Very stupid idea if you ask me ..


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

Some "bright" "enginerd" came up with the idea and obviously knew how to grease hands to get his product required. I dislike that nerd.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Very stupid idea if you ask me ..


Just remembered... why the Illinois plumbing code not allow dw drain connect to disposal drain connection.. the "teacher" couldn't answer but only say "that what's the code book required". I don't take that for correct answer... anyone??


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> Just remembered... why the Illinois plumbing code not allow dw drain connect to disposal drain connection.. the "teacher" couldn't answer but only say "that what's the code book required". I don't take that for correct answer... anyone??


I think it has to do with even with a high loop the water level does not have to even be that high. Take a plunger to it and it will sometime force the water back into the disposal.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

johntheplumber said:


> I think it has to do with even with a high loop the water level does not have to even be that high. Take a plunger to it and it will sometime force the water back into the disposal.


U mean back to the dishwasher?? Try plunging or air gun the disposal with air gap drain.. ya talking sh!t all over the place


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

rjbphd said:


> U mean back to the dishwasher?? Try plunging or air gun the disposal with air gap drain.. ya talking sh!t all over the place


Yes. Sorry. I meant dishwasher.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks for pic John.... That looks like a pain eh. Haha


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## johntheplumber (Feb 11, 2013)

redbeardplumber said:


> Thanks for pic John.... That looks like a pain eh. Haha


Sure thing. They are a pain. Even the inspectors around here won't make us out them in.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

They aren't hard to put in. They are code here so I guess I'm biased. To everyone saying it would be stupid for someone to let their sink overflow, I've seen people do much dumber. People overall are stupid.


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> RW ... You ever think we might be more advance than you guys ..


How is not putting in a backflow protection device MORE advanced... No sewer water back flowing into dishwashers here. Air gaps aren't as much of a problem as you guys are exaggerating. They are in thousands of homes here and calls to repair them are almost non existent. I've been doing this 10 years and can count on 1 hand the number of failed air gaps I've changed. 

Hell why not have any backflow protection at all then? Take out all vacuum breakers after all, how often is there a negative pressure situation due to a water main break? Maybe we should just direct connect food prep sinks too. Who would be stupid enough to set vegetables in a clogged sink?


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## wyplumber (Feb 14, 2013)

I could send you the names of some customers that stupid



RW Plumbing said:


> . Who would be stupid enough to set vegetables in a clogged sink?


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

wyplumber said:


> I could send you the names of some customers that stupid


Exactly my point.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

wyplumber said:


> I could send you the names of some customers that stupid


A good portion of them have zip codes beginning with 73.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> How is not putting in a backflow protection device MORE advanced... No sewer water back flowing into dishwashers here. Air gaps aren't as much of a problem as you guys are exaggerating. They are in thousands of homes here and calls to repair them are almost non existent. I've been doing this 10 years and can count on 1 hand the number of failed air gaps I've changed.
> 
> Hell why not have any backflow protection at all then? Take out all vacuum breakers after all, how often is there a negative pressure situation due to a water main break? Maybe we should just direct connect food prep sinks too. Who would be stupid enough to set vegetables in a clogged sink?


Why would get sewer water into your kitchen sink or for that matter into your dishwasher ...

Unless you are taking a direct dump in your kitchen sink ... I think it would be a better idea to do that in the toilet ...


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Why would get sewer water into your kitchen sink or for that matter into your dishwasher ...
> 
> Unless you are taking a direct dump in your kitchen sink ... I think it would be a better idea to do that in the toilet ...


Any drain connected to the sanitary system is technically sewer water. Don't you guys have any duplexes there? Upper unit stack clogs at floor of first floor, they keep using it until the waste piles up into the kitchen sink of first floor. It CAN happen. It CAN'T happen with an air gap. That's the whole point of it. Limiting the danger.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

RW Plumbing said:


> Any drain connected to the sanitary system is technically sewer water. Don't you guys have any duplexes there? Upper unit stack clogs at floor of first floor, they keep using it until the waste piles up into the kitchen sink of first floor. It CAN happen. It CAN'T happen with an air gap. That's the whole point of it. Limiting the danger.


Ya talking " Chicago waste" system where kitchen sink waste tied together thru the floor... that's not allowed anymore..


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## RW Plumbing (Aug 16, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Ya talking " Chicago waste" system where kitchen sink waste tied together thru the floor... that's not allowed anymore..


No, all waste piping is connected if you go back far enough. So a clog far enough back could fill all the first floor waste with crap.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I usually drill the hole as high as possible in the partition between the dishwasher and the KS cabinet. High loop issue solved.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Not if the drain is looped against the underneath of the countertop... people would be pretty stupid to let a plugged sink drain flow over the top of sink rim..
> Furthermore, hate those airgap crap, looks ugly and stinks like hell after a short time.


I've actually seen this happen. It was after Thanksgiving the lady dumped brussell sprouts down her disposal. Continuous waste with d/w looped to bottom of counter top draining into disposal. It was a dual drawer dishwasher and it backed up in to the bottom drawer. The baffle tee was packed full of ground up brussell sprouts. Florida code requires air gaps but in my area we get away with the high loop.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Optimus Primer said:


> I've actually seen this happen. It was after Thanksgiving the lady dumped brussell sprouts down her disposal. Continuous waste with d/w looped to bottom of counter top draining into disposal. It was a dual drawer dishwasher and it backed up in to the bottom drawer. The baffle tee was packed full of ground up brussell sprouts. Florida code requires air gaps but in my area we get away with the high loop.


Those baffle drain tee should never be installed after the disposal drain, furthermore, the disposal drain suppose to have their own p trap connection.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Those baffle drain tee should never be installed after the disposal drain, furthermore, the disposal drain suppose to have their own p trap connection.


That's what I did. Cut it out and put 2 seperate traps in.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Optimus Primer said:


> That's what I did. Cut it out and put 2 seperate traps in.


We're allowed to put a disposal on a Continuous Waste under the UPC. And I don't recall having any issues with the baffle tee's plugging up.

Also, we're allowed only one trap on a trap arm.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> We're allowed to put a disposal on a Continuous Waste under the UPC. And I don't recall having any issues with the baffle tee's plugging up.
> 
> Also, we're allowed only one trap on a trap arm.


We can too. But if this lady was dead set on dumping everything down her disposal I figured the seperate traps was a better idea. It was the first time I've seen a jammed up baffle tee. Especially since I don't do service very often


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Optimus Primer said:


> That's what I did. Cut it out and put 2 seperate traps in.


Good...


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