# Dishwasher



## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

What is the best way, specifically under Illinois code, to pipe a dishwasher not near a sink? Opposite wall, tight kitchen, etc.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

New construction?


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Flyout95 said:


> New construction?



New construction, residential kitchen


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

do you have basement or crawl space access from below? if so run drain line across in that area and put trap below floor and run vent up...I dont think its aloud to run flexible drain line from DW all the way back to the kitchen sink...


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Seen this in several new homes with a single bowl sink with a garbage disposal, When a dishwasher is added separate traps are required.SO they add a hub type drain with a wye branch tailpiece under the sink

You need to provide a trapped and vented line (lets say as you would for a lavatory), you can come out of a wall behind it (or an Island Sink set up), trap it (slip joint) then add a wye branch tailpiece, cap the top of the tailpiece, take the hose up as high as possible under the cabinet.

Weird, but it will get you by without the fixed air gap fitting. Ran it by the State down here, no issue.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

GAN said:


> Seen this in several new homes with a single bowl sink with a garbage disposal, When a dishwasher is added separate traps are required.SO they add a hub type drain with a wye branch tailpiece under the sink
> 
> You need to provide a trapped and vented line (lets say as you would for a lavatory), you can come out of a wall behind it (or an Island Sink set up), trap it (slip joint) then add a wye branch tailpiece, cap the top of the tailpiece, take the hose up as high as possible under the cabinet.
> 
> Weird, but it will get you by without the fixed air gap fitting. Ran it by the State down here, no issue.



As shtrnsdownhill asked, a have access underneath. Can I run flex discharge through floor and into a vented trap?


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

rwh said:


> As shtrnsdownhill asked, a have access underneath. Can I run flex discharge through floor and into a vented trap?



I've ran 7/8 hose under subfloor and back up into cabinet before. Same thing as running line through cabinets if it's a few feet away. Don't see any reason why running it down then up vs straight through cabinets. Is your concern having hose in concealed place? If so maybe have connections in cabinet and behind DW only. By one long 7/8 hose so no hose clamps in ceiling.

I have no idea about Chicago though. I'm in IPC Virginia 


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

Depends on code. I wouldn't run hose under floor and back up. Big trap for grease to settle.

With traps being set beneath the floor, that is where your code would dictate if it is allowed or not, by considering a residential dishwasher a wall outlet or floor outlet. 

We are allowed in WI to run a vented open sight, with minimum of a 15" riser. Stub out at appropriate height in d.w. space, then when time to set d.w. on finish, hook up trap and riser.

If that takes up room depth wise, you could ask and see if it's OK to use a guy grey box in the wall. Trap and vent inside the wall with riser to the g.g. box.

Since this is new construction I'd put it in the wall.


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## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

Can you do it like a washing machine? P-trap concealed in the wall & vented, run the dishwashing machine drain in?


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Ok GAN, can I stack a tee for k.s. above f f., Over another tee in crawl, trap both. Vertical wet vent. Run DW hose through floor into trap bushed to hose barb on inlet of lower trap.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

rwh said:


> Ok GAN, can I stack a tee for k.s. above f f., Over another tee in crawl, trap both. Vertical wet vent. Run DW hose through floor into trap bushed to hose barb on inlet of lower trap.


 You are covered under, since it would be a common vent. 

*Section 890.1500 Installation of Wet Venting

*
_a) The following shall not be used to wet vent *another* fixture trap: water closets, washing machine connections, blowout urinals, or *dishwashers*. _(Sink could dump into DW wet)

_c) A vertical wet vent may be used for two fixtures set on the same floor level, but connecting at different levels in the stack, provided that the vertical wet vent/drain between the two traps is one pipe diameter larger than the upper fixture trap and that both drains conform to Appendix A.Table I. (See Appendix K.Illustration P.)_

_d) A horizontal wet vent may be used for two fixtures set on the same floor level with one fixture connecting upstream of the other fixture on the horizontal line, provided that the horizontal wet vent/drain between the two fixtures is one pipe diameter larger that the upstream fixture trap. The vent connection shall be located between the traps, and each trap-to-vent distance shall be in accordance with Appendix A.Table I. (See Appendix K.Illustration Q.)_


*Section 890.770 Dishwashing Machines
*_a) 
Domestic Dishwasher (Private Residence). When a domestic dishwashing machine drain line is connected to the house side of a trap from a sink, the drain from the dishwasher shall be carried up to the underside of the spill rim of the sink. Dishwashing machines shall discharge separately into a trap or tail piece of the kitchen sink and shall not connect to the food waste disposal unit._


*Not covered under* 890.410 distance from fixture to trap. Yes I realize the hose is generally longer even when the connection is under the sink, (One of those not clear areas where inspectors pass it).

Look at a tub waste for reference. I would approve a stacked tee common vent in the crawl, If the riser from the trap extended up into the cabinet and the length of the riser was under 24" & had an air-gap fitting installed in the deck of the sink to eliminate the possibility of siphon-age.
*
*_*Section 890.410 Fixture Traps/Continuous Waste 
*a) 
Fixture Traps. All directly connected plumbing fixtures, except those having integral traps, shall be separately trapped by a water-seal trap, placed as close to the fixture outlet as possible. A kitchen sink with up to three basins may be installed on one trap if one compartment is not more than 6 inches deeper than the other and the waste outlets are not more than 30 inches apart. (See Appendix D.Illustration A.) _

_b) Distance of Trap to Fixture. *The developed length from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches,* except that an interceptor used as a trap shall be located as close as possible to the fixture. The maximum developed length from the fixture outlet to the inlet of the interceptor shall not exceed 5 feet. (See Appendix D.Illustration B.) The standpipe inlet for an automatic clothes washer shall not exceed 48 inches above the weir of a trap. 
_
Would it work, yours being closer to the fixture would, but running the hose for an extended distance would not be the best option. That pump is going to be overworked.

This would be a classic case of municipal interpretation, that has no clear set guide lines in the 2014 Illinois Plumbing Code.

Not going to speak for other areas, I would in mine.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

we have done this simple thing before if this is on a crawl space or open basement..... just run a 5/8 radiator hose across the distance and run it up as high as possible and tie it into the disposal outlet.... on the other end just insert some 1/2 copper stiffener in the hose and clamp it to the hose from the dishwasher... ....I dont think their is a maximum distance it will pump and it will work for decades.....

I would prefer it going through the disposal vs any other approach....


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> we have done this simple thing before if this is on a crawl space or open basement..... just run a 5/8 radiator hose across the distance and run it up as high as possible and tie it into the disposal outlet.... on the other end just insert some 1/2 copper stiffener in the hose and clamp it to the hose from the dishwasher... ....I dont think their is a maximum distance it will pump and it will work for decades.....
> 
> I would prefer it going through the disposal vs any other approach....



Can't do under our code


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## Michaelcookplum (May 1, 2011)

rwh said:


> Can't do under our code




Your code stinks


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Michaelcookplum said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > Can't do under our code
> ...


No dishwasher to disposer. I like our code. Just confusing and contradictory at times


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

Here in cheese land we can only do 10' max discharge hose from d.w. to opensight. 

18" max hose from air gap to tailpiece.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

Michaelcookplum said:


> Your code stinks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Our code it's labor friendly!


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Running 10 ft of rubber hose in a crawl space is handi hack work, you all complain about the homeowner doing stuff like that...run a pvc drain and vent to the dishwasher like a professional with a trap below floor, that should have been covered cost wise in your bid, or if it was a change, bill $$$ for it...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

rwh said:


> Can't do under our code


Why not??

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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Why not??
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


Can't tie it into the disposal.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Flyout95 said:


> Can't tie it into the disposal.


Not good enough reason. . I asked the question at the cce class, the "teacher " gave one of the most bs reason.. asked him if he know anything about pump... he said we are not here to talk about pump.. so told him off.. definitely not a hydronic heating guy 

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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

The disposal can be clogged, then you run the dishwasher, it drains and backs up...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Flyout95 said:


> The disposal can be clogged, then you run the dishwasher, it drains and backs up...


Nope, nope..have you seen it..???? This coming from new work guy!!!

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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Think pump impeller, Flyout. .

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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

rjbphd said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > Can't do under our code
> ...


No go on disposal hookup


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## Cipp-pro (Jul 16, 2016)

rwh said:


> Ok GAN, can I stack a tee for k.s. above f f., Over another tee in crawl, trap both. Vertical wet vent. Run DW hose through floor into trap bushed to hose barb on inlet of lower trap.


You can buts it's not legal Can't wet vent on two different floors
But if you install a wye on the riser first you now have two drain risers. DW and KS and then revent them together

Or just drain it to the disposal


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

I will run to it's own trap. Is it ok to penetrate floor with dishwasher hose under Illinois code? Would provide a vented p trap under floor beneath dishwasher. Glue to barb adapter on trap


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

rwh said:


> I will run to it's own trap. Is it ok to penetrate floor with dishwasher hose under Illinois code? Would provide a vented p trap under floor beneath dishwasher. Glue to barb adapter on trap


I've done that before.. as well connected the pre charged air chamber on the water supply for obvious reasons. 

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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

rjbphd said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > I will run to it's own trap. Is it ok to penetrate floor with dishwasher hose under Illinois code? Would provide a vented p trap under floor beneath dishwasher. Glue to barb adapter on trap
> ...


Right on. Shut off and dwv will be accessible directly beneath. No drilling cabinets, long hoses, etc.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

rwh said:


> No dishwasher to disposer. I like our code. Just confusing and contradictory at times


All disposals have the knockout plug for a reason, the dishwasher. That makes no sense.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Debo22 said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > No dishwasher to disposer. I like our code. Just confusing and contradictory at times
> ...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

rwh said:


> Debo22 said:
> 
> 
> > All disposals have the knockout plug for a reason, the dishwasher. That makes no sense.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

rjbphd said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > For what reason??
> ...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> rjbphd said:
> 
> 
> > Food particles coming out of dishwasher need to go through disposal.
> ...


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

rjbphd said:


> Debo22 said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed on that..but what was the reason for not allowing to the disposal contention?
> ...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Where it's should go for the very reason... while the backazzward state plumbing board don't think so..

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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Where it's should go for the very reason... while the backazzward state plumbing board don't think so..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


Agree there. Only thing even reasonable is without a wye branch tailpiece and a pump driven discharge the waste may rise up inside the garbage disposal and/or suds up.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Years ago it was illegal in the City of Orlando because of potential back ups and I remember them saying it cuts the life expectancy of the GD. Could be wrong, was over 20 years ago.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> Running 10 ft of rubber hose in a crawl space is handi hack work, you all complain about the homeowner doing stuff like that...run a pvc drain and vent to the dishwasher like a professional with a trap below floor, that should have been covered cost wise in your bid, or if it was a change, bill $$$ for it...



How is that a hack job?? At least in Indiana, 
its done all the time in both radiator hose and in 1/2 soft copper.. Done it hundreds of times since the mid 70s and never had a complaint or issue...


a dishwasher will function just fine with it pumping across that kind of space and then going up to the high end under the kitchen sink and then connecting into the disposal... or you could run it through the cabinets if you so chose to.....

The dishwasher probably has the pumping capacity to pump the water up to the second floor 

Installing a drain and vent for just a dw is a total waste... but if your code says you must then I guess I got it real easy here in hackville....:laughing: 

So, what do they put that outlet on the disposal for anyway?? 
Is that plug only for do it yourselfers??:blink:

On another note , where do you install a dishwasher drain, it is something like a laundry box that you can get access to or are you just putting an open trap down in the crawl space for it to tie into???

It seems like the disposal plug is a better option that either of these 

.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> ShtRnsdownhill said:
> 
> 
> > Running 10 ft of rubber hose in a crawl space is handi hack work, you all complain about the homeowner doing stuff like that...run a pvc drain and vent to the dishwasher like a professional with a trap below floor, that should have been covered cost wise in your bid, or if it was a change, bill $$$ for it...
> ...


I agree on most of that Mark. However I pipe it, it will not be to disposal knock out. I have seen it many times, including my own kitchen (piped by another). It won't fly by inspector. Is what it is


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

rwh said:


> I agree on most of that Mark. However I pipe it, it will not be to disposal knock out. I have seen it many times, including my own kitchen (piped by another). It won't fly by inspector. Is what it is




I am blessed to live in hacksville I guess.....dont make any sense to me but like you say .............. it is what it is......


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## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

In WI , if piped to disposal it must go through above counter air gap first


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> rwh said:
> 
> 
> > I agree on most of that Mark. However I pipe it, it will not be to disposal knock out. I have seen it many times, including my own kitchen (piped by another). It won't fly by inspector. Is what it is
> ...


I never said any hacksville. Another poster did. I have to comply, as best as possible. Much respect to Indiana. A couple my brothers hold Indiana and Illinois licenses.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

rwh said:


> I agree on most of that Mark. However I pipe it, it will not be to disposal knock out. I have seen it many times, including my own kitchen (piped by another). It won't fly by inspector. Is what it is


I've hooked to the disposal connection and told the inspector to get bent..

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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

I will most definitely not tell him to get bent. My o.p. was asking how to pipe dishwasher far from k.s. I don't want to go to the g.d. or the d.w. tailpiece on a k.s. .


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

moonapprentice said:


> In WI , if piped to disposal it must go through above counter air gap first


that is pretty common and is also the way it is supposed to be done in colorado.... the air gap can be a pain to install with no extra holes in the sink , and most times I saw it just ran as high as possible under the sink.......


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

geez this still going on.... just drill a hole through the outside wall and water the dam plants with the dishwasher.....:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
for all the time talking about it you coulda roughed it in already with hard pipe...


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Well I don't see a good reason here for not using the connection point on the disposal. If you use the drain backing up rule you wouldn't connect anything to a drain. Sounds like a bs rule.


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## rwh (Dec 17, 2014)

It's already done. Dishwasher to its own trap under floor. I can't help the garbage disposal prohibition. My issue was the k.s. and dishwasher being around the corner and several cabinets away. If the k.s. and d.w. were adjacent I would run to d.w. tailpiece on bowl that didn't have the disposal.


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