# Cable fight.



## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

First up I'm sorry for no pictures but I had 2 guys from the shop and our boss there so I did not take pictures. I went to cable a small apartment buildings sewer and went through a floor clean out. I was told they had had issues with flushable wipes before. I used a general speedrooter 91 with 100' 5/8" cable and 4" sidecutter. I never knew about a manhole outside the building maybe 30' out and the maintenance guy did not know about it. Well I go through maybe 50' easy and finally hit a bit of resistance but not much. I pull back a bit and feel a bit of resistance so I deside to pull the cable back to see what I get back before getting too much wrapped up on the cable. To make it simple I pulled back the cable fully tangled up on itself and it got stuck at the wye going up to the clean out. We had to pull it through the wye using this handyman thing 42" tall. I never would have gone that far if i had known about the manhole in the lawn. 

Funny thing is even with a 4" sidecutter head the water never moved in the clean out while the cable was already all the way out in the manhole. The water did not let go before right when we had the cable pulled back to the wye.

I dont feel like I screwed up at all but it really sucks when this kind of thing happens.









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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

theres an old saying to cover that.............................................
"schit happens"


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

How did you attach it to the high lift jack (that's the proper popular name)?


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## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

i remember cleaning a sewer in a house by johnsonville. yes the brat capitol of the world. i asked if it was a septic and they said no, johnsonville sewer. sent in the cable 100'. nothing. couldnt pull it back. ejector pit in yard with e1 pumped forced main sewer that the homeowner forgot to mention. had to pull the pump with the cable wrapped around it. good times. ( later found out that all local homes tied into their private treatment plant)


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> How did you attach it to the high lift jack (that's the proper popular name)?


We cut the cable first and then we basically just tied it up around that little lift foot and it worked fine.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

The Dane said:


> We cut the cable first and then we basically just tied it up around that little lift foot and it worked fine.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


you did a knot to the cable or used a tool?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I never had a problem with a city sewer until I went on my own.

I’ve used a hydraulic car jack and a series of vice grips to pull a root bound cable out more times than I care to....


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The Dane said:


> ......We had to pull it through the wye using this handyman thing 42" tall......







Tango said:


> How did you attach it to the high lift jack (that's the proper popular name)?





Yeah, High lift jack is the more common name now. Many still know them as tractor jacks. They can be quite handy, and very dangerous.






I often run my cable an extra 30' into septic tanks with no issue. now mind you that's not a manhole but I've done those too. The trick is to keep it spinning while you work it back and forth. If it won't spin than put her in reverse and pull back a bit, then forward and pull back a bit, then reverse and........Rinse and repeat until cable retrieved.






Also, don't start with a pair of side cutters. Start with a single, serrated, side cutter. Least likely to get you in trouble. If you don't pull any hygiene products or the like out then switch to using a pair. Otherwise you're liable to get a ball of wipes or tampoons that won't fit back through the fittings.









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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Farm jack here.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

Tango said:


> How did you attach it to the high lift jack (that's the proper popular name)?



We call those farm jacks.. Dangerous as hell but ive lifted the cottage before with one of those


Sorry Opensights didn't see you Said what it was first


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Venomthirst said:


> We call those farm jacks.. Dangerous as hell but ive lifted the cottage before with one of those
> 
> 
> Sorry Opensights didn't see you Said what it was first


If you use them properly and oiled then it's an awesome tool. I used mine hundreds of times when offroading, I usually started mine at 3" because my front bumper was high. I even pulled trucks out of the mud using it like a come along. For a beginner I agree it is dangerous.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Tango said:


> If you use them properly and oiled then it's an awesome tool. I used mine hundreds of times when offroading, I usually started mine at 3" because my front bumper was high. I even pulled trucks out of the mud using it like a come along. For a beginner I agree it is dangerous.


I carry a 2 ton good quality come-along in the truck..I use it a decent amount for lifting and moving stuff...


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

Tango said:


> If you use them properly and oiled then it's an awesome tool. I used mine hundreds of times when offroading, I usually started mine at 3" because my front bumper was high. I even pulled trucks out of the mud using it like a come along. For a beginner I agree it is dangerous.





For sure the load on those jacks isn't balanced and 90 percent of the time you set them on soft footings , however amazing tool with some insane mechanical advantage


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

I’ve jacked cables out of sewers with those before as well. You’d ask for a ‘handyman jack’ around here. 

Wrap a small chain around your cable so it bites the harder you pull. Easy peasy. In theory.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Tango said:


> you did a knot to the cable or used a tool?


We cut the cable so maybe 3' was sticking up out of the cleanout and then tied that bit up around itself and hooked it on to the jack and that did the trick.

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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

im surprised you dont have a cable grabber to put on the cable to pull instead of having to tie the cable in a knot sorta speaking...you ever see the set up they use on power lines or phone lines to hold and hang the cable..almost like a chinese finger trap..


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> im surprised you dont have a cable grabber to put on the cable to pull instead of having to tie the cable in a knot sorta speaking...you ever see the set up they use on power lines or phone lines to hold and hang the cable..almost like a chinese finger trap..


The guy who does my waterline pulls uses something like this. Except his is much more heavy duty. One of those heavy duty pullers should work if you don't have enough cable out to tie into a knot. 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Irwin-18...TRTd6xO-IgUXCBnwMeB7xYnAze59Ha9xoC8hQQAvD_BwE


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> im surprised you dont have a cable grabber to put on the cable to pull instead of having to tie the cable in a knot sorta speaking...you ever see the set up they use on power lines or phone lines to hold and hang the cable..almost like a chinese finger trap..


No never seen the so called cable grabber. In my time as a plumber I have not come across a knotted up cable, neither me nor any one I know. So this might be why we dont gave a tool laying around just for that purpose.

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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

The Dane said:


> First up I'm sorry for no pictures but I had 2 guys from the shop and our boss there so I did not take pictures. I went to cable a small apartment buildings sewer and went through a floor clean out. I was told they had had issues with flushable wipes before. I used a general speedrooter 91 with 100' 5/8" cable and 4" sidecutter. I never knew about a manhole outside the building maybe 30' out and the maintenance guy did not know about it. Well I go through maybe 50' easy and finally hit a bit of resistance but not much. I pull back a bit and feel a bit of resistance so I deside to pull the cable back to see what I get back before getting too much wrapped up on the cable. To make it simple I pulled back the cable fully tangled up on itself and it got stuck at the wye going up to the clean out. We had to pull it through the wye using this handyman thing 42" tall. I never would have gone that far if i had known about the manhole in the lawn.
> 
> Funny thing is even with a 4" sidecutter head the water never moved in the clean out while the cable was already all the way out in the manhole. The water did not let go before right when we had the cable pulled back to the wye.
> 
> ...


Never ever use a big head cutter on a line that you don't know about,always use a spear head or no head just to see what is going on,lucky you got it out of that mess,before I do a building I will walk around it looking for cleanouts and manholes,plus I always talk to the city people over the sewers first


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Venomthirst said:


> We call those farm jacks.. Dangerous as hell but ive lifted the cottage before with one of those
> 
> 
> Sorry Opensights didn't see you Said what it was first


Handyman jack here


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

sparky said:


> Never ever use a big head cutter on a line that you don't know about,always use a spear head or no head just to see what is going on,lucky you got it out of that mess,before I do a building I will walk around it looking for cleanouts and manholes,plus I always talk to the city people over the sewers first


First off I would use half side cutter first and go full in second go but boss man says to just go full because we dont really get any crazy roots around here that we can't pull out. Second off we have almost no outside cleanouts here at all (only ever seen maybe 5) so I would not even bother to look for one unless told that there was one. Now this building I got caught up in was maybe 25' from another building and the street was like 60' to the side its not normal to see a manhole in a lawn where the street is close by and I asked the maintenance guy about any possible outside cleanouts. The maintenance guy did not know about any outside cleanouts and did not even know about the manhole. If I had used a half cutter instead of a full I would still have tangled up inside the manhole like I did.

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

The Dane said:


> First off I would use half side cutter first and go full in second go but boss man says to just go full because we dont really get any crazy roots around here that we can't pull out. Second off we have almost no outside cleanouts here at all (only ever seen maybe 5) so I would not even bother to look for one unless told that there was one. Now this building I got caught up in was maybe 25' from another building and the street was like 60' to the side its not normal to see a manhole in a lawn where the street is close by and I asked the maintenance guy about any possible outside cleanouts. The maintenance guy did not know about any outside cleanouts and did not even know about the manhole. If I had used a half cutter instead of a full I would still have tangled up inside the manhole like I did.







One of our bosses has almost no time in the field. He'll tell the guys to do something a certain way, they show up to a job, order all of the correct parts and do it the correct way.




At the end of the day it's your license/azz on the line, do it right or don't do it anymore. Your boss might be all go go go but when shtf who's getting yelled at? Who looks like an idiot in front of the customer?










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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> One of our bosses has almost no time in the field. He'll tell the guys to do something a certain way, they show up to a job, order all of the correct parts and do it the correct way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep,agree,most bosses don't give a crap or have a clue as to what's really going on,before I was the boss I would do what I thought was right and best way to do things


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

The Dane said:


> First off I would use half side cutter first and go full in second go but boss man says to just go full because we dont really get any crazy roots around here that we can't pull out. Second off we have almost no outside cleanouts here at all (only ever seen maybe 5) so I would not even bother to look for one unless told that there was one. Now this building I got caught up in was maybe 25' from another building and the street was like 60' to the side its not normal to see a manhole in a lawn where the street is close by and I asked the maintenance guy about any possible outside cleanouts. The maintenance guy did not know about any outside cleanouts and did not even know about the manhole. If I had used a half cutter instead of a full I would still have tangled up inside the manhole like I did.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


In ky it's code we have to put a full size cleanout two ft outside the building,and something about maintenance men,most are dumber than owl **** and don't know their azz from hole in ground,I trust nothing any maintenance man tells me,I double check everything one tells me,you will get in a heck of a bind one of these days using full and half side cutters everytime you do a sewer line,no way would I use one unless I knew the line or used a camera beforehand.


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

sparky said:


> In ky it's code we have to put a full size cleanout two ft outside the building,and something about maintenance men,most are dumber than owl **** and don't know their azz from hole in ground,I trust nothing any maintenance man tells me,I double check everything one tells me,you will get in a heck of a bind one of these days using full and half side cutters everytime you do a sewer line,no way would I use one unless I knew the line or used a camera beforehand.


Well I have done it that way for maybe 6-7 years now with no problems ever until this job and well cutterhead had nothing to do with flipping around in a big manhole.

Around here the code is that a full seize cleanouts is to be installed within 5' of where the sewer enters the building. It can be outside or inside. The thing is that we have snow and winter and mud for most of the year so it really is not practical to have it outside unless you have a second one inside too. 

I actually had to do a sewer with an outside cleanout yesterday. Dumb thing was right next to the sidewalk and not by the house so it only would clean 1/2 of the sewer but the clog was by the street so I could actually use it. Now I almost couldn't use that cleanout because the water that was standing in the cleanout pipe had frozen but I managed to poke a hole in it with some warm water. Our sewers has to be a minimum of 7' below ground around here.

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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

The Dane said:


> Well I have done it that way for maybe 6-7 years now with no problems ever until this job and well cutterhead had nothing to do with flipping around in a big manhole.
> 
> Around here the code is that a full seize cleanouts is to be installed within 5' of where the sewer enters the building. It can be outside or inside. The thing is that we have snow and winter and mud for most of the year so it really is not practical to have it outside unless you have a second one inside too.
> 
> ...


Dang,7ft??? That's unreal


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

sparky said:


> Dang,7ft??? That's unreal


Very real. Code says below frost line and well around here that means 7' minimum.

We still have some snow piles around here that will soon melt.
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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

The Dane said:


> Very real. Code says below frost line and well around here that means 7' minimum.
> 
> We still have some snow piles around here that will soon melt.
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I can understand a water service line but why a sewer line??itdoes not have water standing in it if installed correctly,main sewers must be really deep where your at if sewer lines have to be 7ft deep


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

sparky said:


> I can understand a water service line but why a sewer line??itdoes not have water standing in it if installed correctly,main sewers must be really deep where your at if sewer lines have to be 7ft deep


So you have never seen a belly in a sewer? How about sidewalks pushed up because of frostheave? The ground can move and settle. Just the other day I had to unclog a sewer that had an outside cleanout and the standing water in it had froze 1' down and that was because it had gotten down to 6°F that night. Now imagine -35°F. I can tell you that a few years ago a city water department guy told me they had to dig and the ground was frozen 11' down. So tell me what happens if it can freeze like that around here and your sewer clogs up and sits over night? I have had 2 or 3 times that I had to tell people to get a jetter with warm water in order to get it because my cable simply won't go through solid ice.

I don't want to think of the trouble we would have if sewers were only 3' down.

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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

The Dane said:


> Very real. Code says below frost line and well around here that means 7' minimum.
> 
> We still have some snow piles around here that will soon melt.
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


How’s this one?


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Debo22 said:


> How’s this one?


Septic tanks can be higher up than the 7' but even then I have not seen one as close to the ground as the one in your picture.

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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

our sewers are like minimum 6' but i've seen 9' deep inside the basement.. i know because i had to dig it... Its rare but they are there.. Some of the main lines are 50' deep on road.. most average at around 10-11 though


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

sparky said:


> I can understand a water service line but why a sewer line??itdoes not have water standing in it if installed correctly,main sewers must be really deep where your at if sewer lines have to be 7ft deep


There's a thread about the depth of water mains and house sewers. Here too it's 7-8' deep for both. The sewer is always below the water main.

What's interesting for those who have sewer lines like a foot below ground does that mean you don't have bathrooms in the basements or they all have sewer pumps?

Not the best example but from my pictures. The floor drain in this one is about 6' under ground to the street and by the time it's at the street 7 to 8' deep.

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> What's interesting for those who have sewer lines like a foot below ground does that mean you don't have bathrooms in the basements or they all have sewer pumps?
> .





Yeah, either a pump or there is no bathroom in the basement. Most don't have a finished basement here. Some have unfinished basements with a toilet in the corner and a shower curtain around it that grandpa put in and the waste line could be 4 feet below the slab and 12' below grade if the house is built on a hill. Some old guys had big backhoes and visions of grandeur.



We have like 60% homes with unfinished basements, 10% with finished basements, and like 30% with "crawlspaces" but even that can be 4 feet tall dirt floor or 18" tall and asphalt.



Our minimum for sewer without issues on a less than 30' run is like 2-3' but that is highly variable. You can drive 15 miles here and go from 70 to 50 degrees in the fall/spring. Some places you can have a 100' line only 2' deep and it will never freeze while others can be 4' deep and freeze. Really depends on the amount and type of soil above the bedrock and the surrounding tree cover. Some valleys have constant wind.








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## JimmyMac (Nov 4, 2015)

Fascinating reading about how things are done in different parts of the country, I guess I should put North America with the Canadians input here too...I would say 95% of the houses here do NOT have a basement(I'm in VA), mostly older houses have them and ones build on hills and/or with the terrain for one. Typical sewer line is 3'+ deep. 

In Florida and if you drive through some of the older neighborhoods with wells, they have the jet pumps and well tanks just installed on the lawn...


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## powellmatthew76 (Sep 11, 2019)

JimmyMac said:


> Fascinating reading about how things are done in different parts of the country, I guess I should put North America with the Canadians input here too...I would say 95% of the houses here do NOT have a basement(I'm in VA), mostly older houses have them and ones build on hills and/or with the terrain for one. Typical sewer line is 3'+ deep.
> 
> In Florida and if you drive through some of the older neighborhoods with wells, they have the jet pumps and well tanks just installed on the lawn...


South Carolina too for the well tanks in lawns

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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

JimmyMac said:


> Fascinating reading about how things are done in different parts of the country, I guess I should put North America with the Canadians input here too...I would say 95% of the houses here do NOT have a basement(I'm in VA), mostly older houses have them and ones build on hills and/or with the terrain for one. Typical sewer line is 3'+ deep.
> 
> In Florida and if you drive through some of the older neighborhoods with wells, they have the jet pumps and well tanks just installed on the lawn...


What part of VA are you in? I'm in northern VA and I'd say more than 50 percent of houses I go to have basements.


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