# Crack pipe



## ironandfire

Guy called me on a leak he had. It was on a kitchen sink line I've never seen one crack so bad. They've been in the house for almost 20 yrs. and have seen small paint bulges since.


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## Protech

I think the guy who put in ABS instead of PVC had the crack pipe:whistling2:


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## Optimus Primer

I heard of joints breaking on abs about 15 years ago. Something to do with the glue. The story took place in California. I guess it was real bad there.


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## LEAD INGOT

I found a section of ABS under a slab a few months ago that just seperated. No where near a fitting, just seperated in the middle of the pipe. It was not at a stress point and was bedded properly. I know alot of guys swear by ABS, but I just don't like what I see.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

ABS- Agrevatted Bull SH!T.

you couldn't give me a lifetime supply of that crap. Unless ron wanted to buy it all?


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## futz

LEAD INGOT said:


> I found a section of ABS under a slab a few months ago that just seperated. No where near a fitting, just seperated in the middle of the pipe. It was not at a stress point and was bedded properly. I know alot of guys swear by ABS, but I just don't like what I see.


ABS is fine. I trust it way more than I would PVC. But once in a rare while you get a defective fitting or piece of pipe. You probably have the same thing with PVC.

I had a cracked ABS kitchen sink tee one time in a house I plumbed. It showed up probably around five years after the house was finished. When I cut it out I was looking for it to be stressed because the crack looked like it was stress-caused, but it wasn't at all. Just one of those rare things. 

Maybe the mold wasn't hot enough or the machine ran short of ABS when it injected that fitting or it they had a little batch of bad ABS - who knows? 99.9% of the fittings are fine.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

futz said:


> ABS is fine. I trust it way more than I would PVC. But once in a rare while you get a defective fitting or piece of pipe. You probably have the same thing with PVC.
> 
> I had a cracked ABS kitchen sink tee one time in a house I plumbed. It showed up probably around five years after the house was finished. When I cut it out I was looking for it to be stressed because the crack looked like it was stress-caused, but it wasn't at all. Just one of those rare things.
> 
> Maybe the mold wasn't hot enough or the machine ran short of ABS when it injected that fitting or it they had a little batch of bad ABS - who knows? 99.9% of the fittings are fine.



See, you say that you don't trust PVC, but then you go an tell a story about how you have found ABS split before. Tell me a time when you found PVC split or cracked like that, when there is no stress point?


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## Plasticman

That stuff is trailer trash around here. No one wants to work with it or on it. Slowes and Homey Depot don't even sell it here, only mobile home supply places.


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## futz

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> See, you say that you don't trust PVC, but then you go an tell a story about how you have found ABS split before. Tell me a time when you found PVC split or cracked like that, when there is no stress point?


One time!  That's the only one I remember, so it stood out. I've been installing ABS since the 70's. I install a LOT of it. Never had any problems with it. I don't use PVC for DWV. It's just not used for that around here. We use PVC for sewer lines outside the building and for irrigation, but it's virtually nonexistent for DWV in this country.

Maybe you guys hate it because your ABS manufacturers are sloppy idiots? Just guessing. I use 90% Canplas fittings and the rest IPEX - both made in Canada. Canplas are very good - IPEX are good, but I don't like some of their fittings.


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## Tankless

LOL, you can't even get it here. ABS or CI is about it. Pool supply houses have it, but they are a very expensive and I don't think they are listed for DWV.


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## LEAD INGOT

I can site one example. 6 years ago I put two 4" pvc tubes on my ladder racks for pipe carriers. I had a friend that put abs on his around a month later. we both had similar vans and only used a 2 rack system so the 4" pipes went the full span. In a year and a half his abs tubes looked like swayback horses. The guy I sold my van to, still has my 4" pvc racks and their still straight.


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## rocksteady

ironandfire said:


> Guy called me on a leak he had. It was on a kitchen sink line I've never seen one crack so bad. They've been in the house for almost 20 yrs. and have seen small paint bulges since.


 
I did a call about 3 weeks ago where this exact thing happened. The customer had a moldy and wet kitchen cabinet so I opened up the drywall under the sink. The ABS had cracked just below the santee and right above the cleanout tee in the wall. I could pull the section right out without cutting it at all, it had cracked all the way around the pipe in both locations. I've seen this before but I wouldn't call it an epidemic. I use ABS for 99% of the DWV that I do.






Paul


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## ILPlumber

Was the connection under any lateral stress?


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## futz

LEAD INGOT said:


> In a year and a half his abs tubes looked like swayback horses. The guy I sold my van to, still has my 4" pvc racks and their still straight.


Yep. ABS and sunshine do not mix. It warps in minutes. Back when I lived in the hot, dry interior of the province we had an open pipe rack on top of the van. When ABS was up there you could hear the pipes flipping themselves over every few minutes when it was hot. You learn to keep it under cover because crooked pipe makes your job look sloppy and incompetent.

If you have a badly twisted length of ABS you can straighten it by leaning it against a wall, aligned with the sun (with sag down) so it doesn't get sun from the side much. Go do something for a couple minutes (less in summer) but keep an eye on the pipe. When it straightens up get it into the shade immediately or it'll bow the other way and flip over. Then you gotta start again.


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## rocksteady

Not on the one I repaired. I cut out the c/o tee and the santee and everything went right back in place beautifully. I think it was the 70's pipe/glue interaction that has been mentioned earlier. 





Paul


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## Tankless

I got one.


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## pauliplumber

I've been using ABS for the last 14 years, without 1 problem with pipe or fitting.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Tankless said:


> I got one.
> 
> View attachment 4301



I hope that either A- that is a revent, or B, you were holding the camera upside down when you took the picture.:laughing:


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## Protech

Never seen that color. Is that santee ABS or PVC?


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## Bollinger plumber

I like abs it saves on fittings. all I do is put it in the sun for a few minutes and bend it anyway I want. :whistling2:


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## mssp

I used ABS for many years and hated to switch to PVC. for 2 reasons
1) ABS is much lighter to carry a barrel of fittings
2) ABS can be glued while pipe or fittings are wet.


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## TheMaster

mssp said:


> I used ABS for many years and hated to switch to PVC. for 2 reasons
> 1) ABS is much lighter to carry a barrel of fittings
> 2) ABS can be glued while pipe or fittings are wet.


 Pvc solvent is made for wet conditions. Aka Blue glue. :scooter:


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## Ron

Thank to all who like ABS, for all you who look down on it well you all can..............

Any product can fail, I've seen pvc joints give out do to the flow of hot water across them, remember pcv is not even rated for hot water.

ABS glued joints are welded together, pvc joints are more of a bounded joint.


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> Thank to all who like ABS, for all you who look down on it well you all can..............
> 
> Any product can fail, I've seen pvc joints give out do to the flow of hot water across them, remember pcv is not even rated for hot water.
> 
> ABS glued joints are welded together, pvc joints are more of a bounded joint.


 Sure pvc is rated for hot water but its pressure rating drops as the temp goes up. Isn't hot water anything above 85 degrees? Pvc solvent welds together. Lets try not to make things into what we want to believe but what they actually are no matter who uses it or doesn't use it.


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## Ron

TheMaster said:


> Lets try not to make things into what we want to believe but what they actually are no matter who uses it or doesn't use it.



Exactly what I'm saying. :thumbsup:


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## Ron

TheMaster said:


> Isn't hot water anything above 85 degrees?


Do you take long hot 85 degree showers?


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> Do you take long hot 85 degree showers?


 In the summer time yes I do. In the winter I like it alittle hotter. Thats a borderline strange question:blink:


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## Ron

Does your dishwasher get your dishes sanitized with 85 degree water temp?


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> Does your dishwasher get your dishes sanitized with 85 degree water temp?


 It has a temp boost but thanks for asking.:laughing: Good try but you might fair better if you get to your point.


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## Ron

Hot water across a pvc joint can cause it to go bad.

My point.


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> Hot water across a pvc joint can cause it to go bad.
> 
> My point.


 How hot?


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## Ron

As hot as your water heater is set duh....


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## GREENPLUM

my WH is set at 130, no cracks in my PVC....yet


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> As hot as your water heater is set duh....


 Pvc is rated at 140 degress with a .22 correction factor. Spend some time and do your homework before you argue with themaster:laughing:. I hafta go make some money at work now so i can continue to educate for free:laughing:


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## Ron

TheMaster said:


> Lets try not to make things into what we want to believe but what they actually are no matter who uses it or doesn't use it.


So lets back up to this statement and practice what you preach. :laughing:


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## LEAD INGOT

Well, like futz said, who is a proponant of ABS, the lengths of abs pipe were flipping in the rack in the hot sun. That would lead me to believe that Abs is more prone to distortion from heat. And lets set the record straight, when I use PVC I use solid, not cellcore. If ABS works for you, sling it all day long, but while I'm paying the liability insurance it's going to be solid pvc.


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## futz

TheMaster said:


> Pvc solvent is made for wet conditions. Aka Blue glue. :scooter:


No good when you have the most insane inspectors in the country. They look carefully for correct glue color for type of piping being done. The blue stuff isn't allowed here, except for irrigation.

I had to rip out and re-do a sewer from street to house one time. Used clear PVC glue instead of the correct grey. I was out of grey and didn't want to waste an hour getting some - it's the same stuff, just without the color. Stupid inspectors :furious:. It was under a 10' head test and holding fine. Oh well... now I know what they want.


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## TheSkinnyGuy

house plumber said:


> I heard of joints breaking on abs about 15 years ago. Something to do with the glue. The story took place in California. I guess it was real bad there.


and yet... they're STILL using ABS on some new installs :no:


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## Tankless

Who cares? Broken ABS or PVC means more $$$ for all of us? I don't know about you all, but I like fixing broken parts....I make damn good money at it! That said, I will never use a Di-electric union...I don't care what the spec is!


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## SewerRatz

Thats why we should still use Cast iron pipe and fittings.


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## Airgap

It all has the potential to fail, and has, at one point or another....


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## SewerRatz

I just know if I ever build myself a home it will be all caulked and lead cast iron , and copper water distribution.

The more I see with short cuts like pex, PVC, abs, the more problems I hear about. I can show you all plumbing systems that where put in over 80 years ago, and they still work as good as the day they where installed.

Oh another reason I prefer cast iron is I do not want to hear through out my home some one flushing the water closet or the running water down the drain from a shower. In the apartment I am in now I can hear every time they run water down a drain, the water closet flush sometimes wakes me up from a dead sleep.


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## Ron

I do use PVC for DWV, I use CPVC :laughing: I'm just messing with TM, he is easy to push buttons with.


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## futz

Tankless said:


> That said, I will never use a Di-electric union...I don't care what the spec is!


Ok, I'll bite - why not?


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> So lets back up to this statement and practice what you preach. :laughing:


 I was simply listing facts. Pvc is rated for hot water but,its just rated lower than cold and only up to 140 degrees. If your going to talk about the pro's and con's of a particular pipe or method back up your opinions with atleast some facts. Your telling half the story so it will sound good to you and thats fine but dont expect people actually believe its true. Everybody knows pvc is better than abs,just ask them.:laughing:


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## user4

futz said:


> Ok, I'll bite - why not?


Because their junk, even the folks a the CDA think so.


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## Kyle181

abs is for hacks, homeowners , and mobile homes.


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## Plumber Jim

futz said:


> Ok, I'll bite - why not?


they will rust and plug up quick. junk. the lower steel part.


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## Ron

Kyle181 said:


> abs is for hacks, homeowners , and mobile homes.


Cool I'm a hack in everyone mind on here.


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## Ron

TheMaster said:


> I was simply listing facts. Pvc is rated for hot water but,its just rated lower than cold and only up to 140 degrees. If your going to talk about the pro's and con's of a particular pipe or method back up your opinions with atleast some facts. Your telling half the story so it will sound good to you and thats fine but dont expect people actually believe its true. Everybody knows pvc is better than abs,just ask them.:laughing:


Chill out dude you getting your panties all tied up in knots, sorry I pushed your buttons.


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## Cal

Ron The Plumber said:


> Chill out dude you getting your panties all tied up in knots, sorry I pushed your buttons.


 :laughing::laughing::laughing: because i think NOT !! You are enjoying those buttons !! 

I'm a PVC guy . We have had a lot of probs around here with ABS . Guess it's all in what you're use to and what readily available.


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> Chill out dude you getting your panties all tied up in knots, sorry I pushed your buttons.


 I thought about it all day its really getting to me that you like abs:whistling2:It makes for good talk at the supply house,I love you love it:laughing:


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## Ron

Guess I'm the only one on here that uses ABS.


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## Ron

TheMaster said:


> I thought about it all day its really getting to me that you like abs:whistling2:It makes for good talk at the supply house,I love you love it:laughing:


Yea you make for good talk at out supply house over you using delta faucets. :whistling2:


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## rocksteady

Ron The Plumber said:


> Cool I'm a hack in everyone mind on here.


I'm a hack too, I guess. We should start a club. :thumbsup:







Paul


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Somebody put a freakin poll up already. I would, but I don't know how.:thumbsup:


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## Plumber Jim

Ron The Plumber said:


> Guess I'm the only one on here that uses ABS.


 
I use ABS. The only time i use PVC is if it's what the existing piping is. The only problems i have see with ABS DWV is when it is stressed by movement in the soil pushing a stack up which would crack the PVC too.


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## TheMaster

Plumber Jim said:


> I use ABS. The only time i use PVC is if it's what the existing piping is. The only problems i have see with ABS DWV is when it is stressed by movement in the soil pushing a stack up which would crack the PVC too.


 Heaving soils? man oh man.


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## Plumber Jim

TheMaster said:


> Heaving soils? man oh man.


Yea, some homes around here have it pretty bad. the areas that are known for it tend to have expansion joints but somehow you find stupid plumbers not putting then in when they should.


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## ironandfire

I haven't seen the virgin cracks, the only other time was a lateral crack not an axial and that was right here in rocket city.


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## Kyle181

Ron The Plumber said:


> Cool I'm a hack in everyone mind on here.


Actually to be honest with you, no one in Michigan uses abs , and you cant even buy it at any supply houses, home depot or lowes. So the only time ive ever seen it was in a mobile home.


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## Ron

Kyle181 said:


> Actually to be honest with you, no one in Michigan uses abs , and you cant even buy it at any supply houses, home depot or lowes. So the only time ive ever seen it was in a mobile home.


Then how can you say hacks only use ABS? Good thing I don't take things too serious on here like TM does.


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## TheMaster

Ron The Plumber said:


> Then how can you say hacks only use ABS? Good thing I don't take things too serious on here like TM does.


 I bet you take it and you like it.


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## Kyle181

Ron The Plumber said:


> Then how can you say hacks only use ABS? Good thing I don't take things too serious on here like TM does.


I cant really, it was an ignorant statement i will admit it, i guess i was in a bad mood or somethin haha. Really though, is there a big difference between the two, i think you said youve worked with both right?


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## Ron

Kyle181 said:


> I cant really, it was an ignorant statement i will admit it, i guess i was in a bad mood or somethin haha. Really though, is there a big difference between the two, i think you said youve worked with both right?



I avoid all PVC DWV, was always an ABS plumber, no primer misses to deal with, no matter how careful you are primer gets all over the place.


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## Redwood

house plumber said:


> I heard of joints breaking on abs about 15 years ago. Something to do with the glue. The story took place in California. I guess it was real bad there.


http://www.abspipes.com/

That doesn't account for the cracking and splitting I've seen and repaired here...
It's okay keep using it!
I'll come along behind you guys that swear by it and fix it by cutting in PVC...:thumbup:

Works for me I'll take the business you guys installing that shiot send my way.:laughing:

IPEX??? :laughing:
Aren't they the same outfit that made Kitec?
I like the way they stand behind their product... :thumbup:
http://www.plumbingdefect.com/index.html


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## Kyle181

Ron The Plumber said:


> I avoid all PVC DWV, was always an ABS plumber, no primer misses to deal with, no matter how careful you are primer gets all over the place.


oh okay, i didnt realize you didnt have to prime abs, that is a plus for sure.


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## Tankless

Ron, on the last few remods / additions I have done, I started priming the joints for the UG work. I never used to, but I got nervous at coupled joints. How NON-important is primering?



Ron The Plumber said:


> I avoid all PVC DWV, was always an ABS plumber, no primer misses to deal with, no matter how careful you are primer gets all over the place.


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## Ron

Are you talking about ABS or PVC

There is a one step pvc glue out there called. *Plumb Tite* no primer needed, ever use it?

*2000 Series PLUMB-TITE™ PVC MEDIUM “HOT” BLUE CEMEN*T

Medium-bodied blue colored cement for PVC pipe and fittings up to 6” diameter.
No primer needed on non-pressure DWV up to 4” where local codes permit.
Very fast setting cement formulated for wet conditions and/or quick pressurization and fast installation.
Recommended application temperature 40°F to 110°F.
Recommended for ALL grades and types of PVC pipe and fittings potable water, pressure pipe and DWV.
Meets ASTM D-2564.


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## Tankless

http://www.oatey.com/Plumber/Shared/ProductGroupDetail/802/LO-VOC+Clear+Cleaner.htmlhttp://www.oatey.com/Plumber/Shared...ner.htmlpDetail/802/LO-VOC+Clear+Cleaner.html

My bad...it was a cleaner...is that lingo for a "primer" too?


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## Ron

I don't think there is anything wrong is using a cleaner on ABS I have never used a cleaner for ABS myself, guess if I find fittings that are real dirty, then guess I would use it.


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## Cal

Purple primer on PVC for rough ins , then Clear Cleaner on finish work . That's how i do it . NOW ,,, there have been a few neewbie inspectors who want to see purple primer on finish work . HOWEVER , by saying to them ," Hey , here is my cleaner , you can see that i've used it , don't want an accidental spill on tile,carpet ,hardwood etc " they are fine with that . 
I have always used PVC . We were taught RIGHT to clean it before gluing . There were a bunch of hacks who did not and lots of joints had trouble . I've seen plenty of ABS around here also . It was used heavily in the 70-80's . Now ,, we can't find it here . Have had plenty of trouble with ABS cracking under stress , sagging and stoppages . Do i know which one is better --- NO . But i'm VERY happy with PVC .


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## Plasticman

futz said:


> One time!  That's the only one I remember, so it stood out. I've been installing ABS since the 70's. I install a LOT of it. Never had any problems with it. I don't use PVC for DWV. It's just not used for that around here. We use PVC for sewer lines outside the building and for irrigation, but it's virtually nonexistent for DWV in this country.
> 
> Maybe you guys hate it because your ABS manufacturers are sloppy idiots? Just guessing. I use 90% Canplas fittings and the rest IPEX - both made in Canada. Canplas are very good - IPEX are good, but I don't like some of their fittings.


 Not to burst your bubble but my truck was made in Canada and it is a pos. whoops. Sorry Ilplumber. It slipped


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## Plasticman

Ron The Plumber said:


> Are you talking about ABS or PVC
> 
> There is a one step pvc glue out there called. *Plumb Tite* no primer needed, ever use it?
> 
> *2000 Series PLUMB-TITE™ PVC MEDIUM “HOT” BLUE CEMEN*T
> 
> Medium-bodied blue colored cement for PVC pipe and fittings up to 6” diameter.
> No primer needed on non-pressure DWV up to 4” where local codes permit.
> Very fast setting cement formulated for wet conditions and/or quick pressurization and fast installation.
> Recommended application temperature 40°F to 110°F.
> Recommended for ALL grades and types of PVC pipe and fittings potable water, pressure pipe and DWV.
> Meets ASTM D-2564.


 
Ok. Sometimes I am guilty of drinking too much and posting here so I do make mistakes. I have been know to get out of hand I think and I sometimes mis-quote our code but,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I heard a few months back from one of our local city inspectors that purple primer was no longer required in residential applications even tho I don't have an updated code book or the addendems to it or do I really care to look it up to see if that is true. I just continue to use it because it really does seem to cut down on the leaks and makes a stronger joint. But, if I remember correctly, our code or at least in a local township, says that we must use purple primer and any other color cement except purple, which I have never seen but we could not use blue or "underwater or wet cement" on the dwv. Only on water piping. 
I may again be wrong about the water piping or service line but it did say any other color than purple cement.
As far as abs, I know I said this before on here but that stuff is so lightweight that it bows up or sags and keeps that memory forever. You can't tear a length out and re-use it again unless you make dutchmen out of the entire length but we here pride ourselves in not installing it. #1 is because we can only get it from a mobile home supplier at twice the price of pvc dwv and #2 it looks and feels like tinker toy cheap trailer trash junk. I do not mean to offend anyone that love abs but I'm just saying..:whistling2:


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## Ron

We pride ourselfs for knowing how to install ABS, I can take a length of warped ABS and make it looks like it was never in that shape, that is what years of installing it does.


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## KCplumber

I'm a hack too I guess, I use ABS & like it better than PVC
Most of my plumber friends switched to PVC because its cheaper
& you can buy it at the who##houses, opps I mean home crepo, lowes


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## Redwood

Myself I just pick up the 2 different materials one in each hand and feel the difference...

ABS feels like a Chevy Chevette or, a Ford Pinto....

Schedule 40 PVC feels like a Rolls Royce....:laughing:

The thing I like about Schedule 40 PVC is it comes in straight lengths right off the shelf and most of the time unless someone is putting really hot water through it the PVC doesn't sag between hangers like ABS does...

Say is that a mogul field you plumbed there?:laughing:


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## Protech

ABS has always been cheaper than PVC for as long as I can remember........

While PVC has many advantages over ABS, the ONLY advantage that ABS has over PVC is impact resistance.


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## Protech

Also, fabricate two 3' lengths of pipe and a 90 (1/4 bend) with both materials. Let them both cure for a few days. Tie one to the other and then tie that rig to 2 trucks. Get in 1 of the trucks and start it up and slowly pull away until the PVC or ABS rig breaks. You will find it's the ABS rig in pieces every time. Food for thought.......

I expect Themaster will have photos for us in a few days:laughing:


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## pauliplumber

Protech said:


> ABS has always been cheaper than PVC for as long as I can remember........
> 
> While PVC has many advantages over ABS, the ONLY advantage that ABS has over PVC is impact resistance.


What advantages does PVC have over ABS? You usually back your statements with scientific reasons, which I've yet to read from anyone in this thread(sorry if I missed it). Just wondering as customers ask me this all the time and I never have a good explanation. Too many people take one small experience with a product and write it off for ever. When I worked in the eastern part of the state it was all PVC. Here in the western parts it's all ABS. I really haven't noticed a significant difference between the two. Never a problem with either. I find it strange that some say they repair ABS all of the time, and yet I have never seen it fail when properly installed. 

I think some of us, when we're used to a certain product, and know it works, then have a bad experience or two with another product that we're not used too, immediately yet prematurely write it off as junk.


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## dayexco

on your pvc fittings.....you'll see a "sw" in front of the product number...stands for "solvent weld"...i took a short class on solvent welding from a certainteed pipe company rep at a convention. the primer for pvc is methyl ethyl ketone...or for short, MEK...if primer is applied properly to pipe and fitting, you should be able to take your finger nail and scrape the plastic up under the nail easily. in reality, you're not gluing at all, you're welding, fusing the pipe. the primer creates a chemical reaction in the pvc to i guess melt or liquefy would be the terms, for a short period of time....allowing the fitting and the pipe to fuse/weld together. in perfect lab conditions, according to the certainteed rep, you would not need the glue at all, were the temps, humidity, pipe ID and OD perfect....the glue has MEK in it also, plus fillers that fill up any voids, imperfections in the pipe or fitting.


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## Ron

dayexco said:


> on your pvc fittings.....you'll see a "sw" in front of the product number...stands for "solvent weld"...i took a short class on solvent welding from a certainteed pipe company rep at a convention. the primer for pvc is methyl ethyl ketone...or for short, MEK...if primer is applied properly to pipe and fitting, you should be able to take your finger nail and scrape the plastic up under the nail easily. in reality, you're not gluing at all, you're welding, fusing the pipe. the primer creates a chemical reaction in the pvc to i guess melt or liquefy would be the terms, for a short period of time....allowing the fitting and the pipe to fuse/weld together. in perfect lab conditions, according to the certainteed rep, you would not need the glue at all, were the temps, humidity, pipe ID and OD perfect....the glue has MEK in it also, plus fillers that fill up any voids, imperfections in the pipe or fitting.



Give us an intro in the intro forum.


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## Ron

Protech said:


> I expect Themaster will have photos for us in a few days[/FONT][/COLOR]:laughing:


Like that is every going to happen, he said he was going to show us all kinds of test results, and I have yet to see any test results.


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## Kyle181

i knew a plumber who would mix purple primer into his glue so he didnt have to prime his pvc, i wonder if that would actually break down the glue, anyone ever heard of this?


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## Protech

I guess I'll have to go down to the mobile home store and get some abs and post a video (and you know I will).


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## user4

Kyle181 said:


> i knew a plumber who would mix purple primer into his glue so he didnt have to prime his pvc, i wonder if that would actually break down the glue, anyone ever heard of this?


It weakens the glue.


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## Ron

Protech said:


> I guess I'll have to go down to the mobile home store and get some abs and post a video (and you know I will).



Yes that would be cool, but you know it takes alot of force to separate the cured pipe from the fitting, I don't see this happening in a home unless where talking about earthquake forces.


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## Protech

That's true, but it will show which one is stronger



Ron The Plumber said:


> Yes that would be cool, but you know it takes alot of force to separate the cured pipe from the fitting, I don't see this happening in a home unless where talking about earthquake forces.


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## gear junkie

Kyle181 said:


> i knew a plumber who would mix purple primer into his glue so he didnt have to prime his pvc, i wonder if that would actually break down the glue, anyone ever heard of this?


It also goes against manufactor instructions. Not good if you ever got sued because your fitting failed. Try to explain why you thought you knew better than the manufactor.


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## Ron

Then do a test on the two to show shatter thresholds, you will need a bench press for the test.


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## Protech

Then we will run some 180F water threw both under repeated deflection and compression..........


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## Ron

Then freeze the cured pipe and fitting then run the shattering test. Just make sure you are doing the shattering test remotely behind a door.


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## futz

Plasticman said:


> Not to burst your bubble but my truck was made in Canada and it is a pos. whoops. Sorry Ilplumber. It slipped


Heh.  My 95 E250 is from the Ohio plant and it has been awesome. Very reliable. I'd like to replace it with a Sprinter, but I'll probably end up with another white Ford van.


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## user4

futz said:


> Heh.  My 95 E250 is from the Ohio plant and it has been awesome. Very reliable. I'd like to replace it with a Sprinter, but I'll probably end up with another white Ford van.


If you want a Sprinter better buy it soon, they aren't made anymore. This time next year you'll have to go to a Mercedes dealership to get that style truck.


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## futz

Killertoiletspider said:


> If you want a Sprinter better buy it soon, they aren't made anymore. This time next year you'll have to go to a Mercedes dealership to get that style truck.


Oh really! I hadn't heard that they were stopping production. Ah well... If I pour a few thousand into my old van I can keep it on the road for another decade (crosses fingers and knocks wood).


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## ironandfire

I can proudly say I've seen the non-virgin crack.:thumbup:There's a whole subdivision with that stuff in it.:thumbsupand probably the whole dang town)The class action suit is for Cal.(?)


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## Bollinger plumber

I have noticed that most of the guys that like abs are in the western u s and canada. Maybe it acts differently up there than it does here in the midwest and southern states where we have higher temps and humidity.


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## rocksteady

I have no idea how the long term effects of the weather affect ABS. While we don't have the humidity that some places do, we do get 110+ temps for at least a week every summer. When I was in Colorado, they used PVC and they're colder but drier than here in Ca. Who knows...






Paul


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## jeffreyplumber

I posted about abs verses pvc like I said you cant buy pvc here . they dont sell it. I mean if you want to special order. but there aint a supply house , home depot lowes or hardware store where you could find a basic 2 inch fitting. Now you can find problems with any product. but every house in ca built in the last 25 years has abs in it. or at least 99.9 percent of them. There is no such thing as pvc here (in actual use) . There was probebly more houses built last year in lead and oakum then pvc here.


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## jeffreyplumber

I was reading todays paper and came across an article from a home inspector named Ken Terry of American West home inspection He claims the following pipwe is know to be defectice, or that some of the pipe manufactured by these co durring these years had problems also there was a sketch of the cracks occuring at the joints.
Centaur 1985, phoenix 1985 1986, polaris1984 to 1990, gable1984 to 1990and apache1984 to 1990. He put his email and phone # for what I dont know but here it is 909 556 7247 [email protected]


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## M5Plumb

I've had a similar incident in recent months that was caused over a period of time. I've found that over the years, the ABS expanding and contracting with no give on the outlet side caused the joint to do the same as you are experiencing.


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## ironandfire

UPDATE .... . H. O. calls me this morn.
H.O.: Mike I've gotta wet spot on the floor right beneath where you fixed the leak!
Me: O. K. Is the ceiling wet ? 
H. O.: No.
Me: O. K. Put some flour on it and I'll be there at 12:00. 






So now the kitchen sink line is repiped.


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## Mike Jessome

work in -20 degree + weather and thats celsius and drop a length of abs out of the rafters then drop a length of pvc


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## Protech

How's this for a shatter test?




Ron said:


> Then do a test on the two to show shatter thresholds, you will need a bench press for the test.


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## ironandfire

More crack pipe. (I think this was done with a forklift)


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## ThePlumber657

Abs and pvc......... there are pros and cons to either. In Canada , you can't use ABS in buildings........ It has a habit of killing people as it burns. PVC on the other hand, is fire rated, and allowed in buildings. They are both solvent weld (to my knowledge) and PVC is a thicker material, so it could withstand a good hit. Though, on the other hand (Being from Canada) in the extreme cold, both do shatter pretty nicely when they are cold. ABS is very allergic to the UV light and does tend to look like a bananna when the supplier jes leaves it out in the back. And if memory serves, after awhile it does become brittle. I use both ABS and PVC and well as the NEWER fire rated PVC. To me , really no difference unless there is a municipal code telling me to use something specific. So for me, houses can get ABS, and building can get PVC / Cast or copper.


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## njoy plumbing

I thought this was going to be a DEA story"Crack pipe". Damn
If abs can make it up here in the frozen north then it should work in the warmer climates. Poor manufacturing is my guess.:rockon:


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## 1703

ThePlumber657 said:


> Abs and pvc......... there are pros and cons to either. In Canada , you can't use ABS in buildings........ It has a habit of killing people as it burns. PVC on the other hand, is fire rated, and allowed in buildings. They are both solvent weld (to my knowledge) and PVC is a thicker material, so it could withstand a good hit. Though, on the other hand (Being from Canada) in the extreme cold, both do shatter pretty nicely when they are cold. ABS is very allergic to the UV light and does tend to look like a bananna when the supplier jes leaves it out in the back. And if memory serves, after awhile it does become brittle. I use both ABS and PVC and well as the NEWER fire rated PVC. To me , really no difference unless there is a municipal code telling me to use something specific. So for me, houses can get ABS, and building can get PVC / Cast or copper.


Got a link to PVC's fire rating credentials?


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## njoy plumbing

Kyle181 said:


> abs is for hacks, homeowners , and mobile homes.


 CAREFULL its all in the  of the installer. I'm sure we wouldn't still be susing solid core ABS if it was that bad.:whistling2:


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## njoy plumbing

ThePlumber657 said:


> Abs and pvc......... there are pros and cons to either. In Canada , you can't use ABS in buildings........ It has a habit of killing people as it burns. PVC on the other hand, is fire rated, and allowed in buildings. They are both solvent weld (to my knowledge) and PVC is a thicker material, so it could withstand a good hit. Though, on the other hand (Being from Canada) in the extreme cold, both do shatter pretty nicely when they are cold. ABS is very allergic to the UV light and does tend to look like a bananna when the supplier jes leaves it out in the back. And if memory serves, after awhile it does become brittle. I use both ABS and PVC and well as the NEWER fire rated PVC. To me , really no difference unless there is a municipal code telling me to use something specific. So for me, houses can get ABS, and building can get PVC / Cast or copper.


 You can use it in comercial if they spec it here. You just have to use specific fire rated rings thru fire separation.
I maintain an apartment bldg that used the grey dwv pvc, and we replace cracked ftgs a couple of times a year. Usually under tubs or in the hardest to reach spots imagineable:no:


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## njoy plumbing

ironandfire said:


> UPDATE .... . H. O. calls me this morn.
> H.O.: Mike I've gotta wet spot on the floor right beneath where you fixed the leak!
> Me: O. K. Is the ceiling wet ?
> H. O.: No.
> Me: O. K. Put some flour on it and I'll be there at 12:00.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now the kitchen sink line is repiped.


 Was that main stack? Did it have a expansion joint on it?


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## ironandfire

njoy plumbing said:


> Was that main stack? Did it have a expansion joint on it?


Nope, washing machine and K. S. and no expansion joint.


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## ironandfire

This was another one, same day same shape crack different pipe.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

ironandfire said:


> This was another one, same day same shape crack different pipe.



That is some freshly installed PVC.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

My freshly installed PVC would look the same if some dumbass helper was dropping it on concrete. Im not convinced.


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## ironandfire

We had two floors on test and those were the only problems we had. It went good but like I said, I think it was hit with the forklift.:whistling2:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

It was hit or dropped with something or somebody. Now, ABS may not do the same thing when dropped or hit. BUT, that is because it is made with DEAD MOOSE COX. ABS is extra slinky, but will dry, harden, and also stretch. This is a known fact in my part of the woods.:laughing:


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## JK949

SewerRatz said:


> Thats why we should still use Cast iron pipe and fittings.



Except that cast cracks along the seam.


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## Ron

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> ABS is extra slinky, but will dry, harden, and also stretch. This is a known fact in my part of the woods.:laughing:


I see the same about PVC in my neck of the woods. :laughing:


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## ironandfire

Had one on an 1 1/2" vent, didn't get the pic though.


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## Ron

Cracked PVC causing wall mount toilet to leak will be replaced Friday. I hate PVC if it was ABS it would last forever.


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## plumbear

I use which ever is cheaper at the time. I havent had problems with either. ABS is harder to work with in the heat, but Ive had fewer leaks with ABS.


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