# American Water Heater Company - Craftmaster - Whirlpool Water Heater - DEFECTIVE



## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Let this be the catch all for one of the most incorrectly made water heaters I've seen in my plumbing career. For those of you who come to this site seeking information about these water heaters, I'll do my best to provide pictures that don't require you to log on/register to see, so I'll link off of photobucket to do so.

In my area of Kentucky, The Lowes Store that sells Whirlpool Water Heaters: 


They are sending out on average, 30 burner assemblies, along with a number of gas valves per week, nearing 150 units a month with customers that have malfunctioning water heaters. 

A Lowe's Whirlpool Water Heater is made by the American Water Heater Company. It is also named as the CRAFTMASTER. There are also other brand names that have been using this unit which will be named in this thread once I get clarification from the right resources.

If you want to describe your situation, file a complaint then you need to go here to get your voices heard and find out what others are dealing with in their purchase.

The issues of this water heater involve premature thermocouple failure, burner assembly malfunction, gas thermostat malfunction. Another problem is the spark arrestor for intake air found directly underneath these water heaters that clog easily due to simple dust buildup and the most likely known problems with these units starving for oxygen have been directly related to cat hair. Cat hair is extremely fine and if you have a cat, this water heater can fail prematurely due to buildup under the unit.

These water heaters have a FEDERAL LAWSUIT following the failures of these gas fired water heaters. In order to retain your replacement retrofit parts at any LOWES Home Improvement Store you will need a SERIAL NUMBER along with MODEL NUMBER off your gas water heater so they can track the units in use that register back to the federal lawsuit.

To contact American Water Heater Company 

1-800-999-9515

or visit them online at http://www.americanwaterheater.com and click on the Contact us online link.


*What to Expect*


When you first contact the mfg. of your water heater regarding problems, you'll be asked the following:


Model Number

Serial Number


These two series of numbers dictate the age/lot run/# of gallons/ the water heater is. 

Then the technician will ask numerous questions of what you are experiencing. Troubleshooting questions with your answers will dictate the problem solving solution.


*WARNING: Left handed threads are used on these units. Incorrect installation will cause cast aluminum threads to damage, resulting in gas thermostat becoming non-functional.*

*WARNING: You must remove burner orifice and install on new burner assembly when switching out defective parts. Non-installation of this will result in excessive gas consumption and overheating of unit, causing damage to wiring harness and destroying temperature sensor.*

*WARNING: You must carefully reinsert the panel screws that hold the panel to the burner assembly onto the formed opening of the water heater without damaging the nutserts. Incorrect installation will result in stripping of these screws which will not seal the combustion chamber. This will lose the protection of FVIR (Flammable Ignition Vapor Resistant) design found on your water heater.*


*Do NOT attempt to work on this unit if you are not aware of the inner workings of how this unit operates. Contact a licensed professional plumber to perform these duties as someone not aware of the numerous considerations to retrofit your existing water heater could spell financial loss.*

I'm going to post a terrible situation that unfolded for one customer of mine, and how much money it is costing just to have hot water back.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

*CONTACT A LICENSED PLUMBER TO WORK ON YOUR WATER HEATER*​

A customer called up this week to have me fix an American Water Heater that wasn't working. What this woman failed to tell me was that someone else had tried to install the parts that were sent to repair it.

This fellow did considerable damage to both the water heater and this customer's finances. They paid this fellow $80 to fix the water heater, two trips, because the first time it didn't stay on.

This fellow when he replaced the parts, stripped out the fine threads entering the thermostat and the retrofit temperature sensor adaptor was loosely hanging in the opening that serves as the connection to the thermocouple.

Along with that, he didn't switch the orifice from burner assembly to burner assembly, causing the unit to fire incorrectly with too much gas entering the unit. This caused the water heater to overheat and burn the wiring inside, destroying the parts that were sent at no charge to the property owner.

At this point, this customer has a water heater that was installed in 2005 and $325 later, still no hot water. 

I have to come back tuesday to install this 2nd burner assembly to connect to the new thermostat that was sent. 

When I arrived at this property two days ago the wiring for the heat sensor was disconnected. Not a good situation because this heater was heating now operating incorrectly till it stopped working.

By the time it is all done and over with, over $450 will be spent to get this water heater operational again.

This warranty was honored by replacement parts.

The first guy damaged the unit by not knowing how to replace the parts.

My labor is not one but 3 visits to this home to get the new parts in my hands and get this water heater working again. 

I asked this property owner to get me a new burner assembly to "clean sweep" and have no chance of problems with what the other guy did, but the lady said there was nothing wrong. 

I found out different today when the unit wouldn't fire. I warned them of this possibility and I'm not going to insist on taking the burner assembly out and proving that. Having all new parts in my hands is the best insurance in a bad situation involving these water heaters that have a history for failures.​


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## RealLivePlumber

Throw that POS in the trash and go get a Bradford already, Jeez.


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## Protech

Pictures man! pictures!


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## TheMaster

I have a 9yr warranty craftmaster that I took out of a house that was leaking. Its still in warranty. I need to find out who sells them around here or call craftmaster so i can get the replacement.


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## Master Mark

*DUNBAR had a bad day...*

Dunbar, you must have had a real bad day with one of them....:thumbup:

they are all complete pieces of junk.

I have read that both Rheem and Bradford White both have cried foul
a long time ago becasue American heaters was allowed to modify their heaters
after the class action lawsuit but did they not have to pass the antsi and ul standards on the new design........

*My opinion is that *
*many power people in the senate and congress have been bribed *
*to let them slide on all of this.....*

and "we the peasents " just have to deal with it



on consumer reports their are presently 188
pages of complaints on thi sdog.... *yes 188 pages...*

some one is being bribed , and bought off .

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/whirlpool_water_heaters.html


here are my pictures if you want to copy them

http://weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryiii/


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## Redwood

RealLivePlumber said:


> Throw that POS in the trash and go get a Bradford already, Jeez.


Thats what I do!

I'm on commission and if I get a callback on the POS within 6 months I lose my commission...

Being and employee the company policy is a 6 month guarantee on repairs and I am not empowered to change it under any circumstances.

With the piss poor design of the air inlet, its better than even odds there will be a callback, especially if this POS is installed anywhere near a clothes dryer. If American Water Heaters made cars they would have made the air intake for the engine on the front face of a mud flap.:whistling2: They would then say its not their problem that the air cleaner plugs up all the time. Their initial design with the fused thermocouple was the dumbest thing they could have done, and their recommended fix of the customer cleaning the intake screen every 3 months is a freakin joke!

http://411plumb.com/troubleshooting-flame-guard-flame-lock-water-heaters

The fact that they have such a small air intake so close to the floor on the bottom of the unit is just plain stupidity. What makes Bradford White so much better is the Intake is on the side not on the bottom, and the screen which serves as the flame arrestor has a huge surface area so the air volume is lower per sq. in. and less likely to act as a vacuum cleaner.

http://411plumb.com/bradford-white-defender-water-heater-review

The customer that is having problems with a Flame Guard water heater I give them 2 options:


I replace it with a Bradford White.
They find another plumber that doesn't mind working for nothing, because that is what I would end up doing if I touched it.

Have a nice day my plumbing works.:thumbup:


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## smellslike$tome

*My 2 cents worth*

This is old news for most plumbing professionals but for the benefit of any home owner, diy, lurkers seeking info as Dunbar suggests, let me add this. 

The link he provides to ConsumerAffairs.com is a very good one. I did not scroll through the entire list and his link goes directly to American water heaters but the last time I searched this site for "whirlpool water heater complaints" there were 173 pages of complaints. This alone should be enough to enlighten you enough to stay away from these products.

The second thing you should know is that, with all due respect to Dunbar, he is one of the lowest priced plumbers I know of, and especially if you live in any major metropolitan area your repair costs are likely to be considerably higher.

The primary problem with these water heaters is in my opinion, a design problem. The basic design does not change with the repair, so what this means is that you will in all probability be making this repair again if not numerous times over the life of this water heater (life being the point at which it finally rusts through requiring replacement of the entire water heater, this according to the Department of Energy is 10 - 15 years).

I myself had a client within the last month who had one of these water heaters (Whirlpool from Lowe's) that had the exact same problem. I explained the situation which they were already becoming aware of having already contacted customer service. I quoted them the repair price, advised them that in all probabilty this would not be the last time that it would be necessary, and I quoted them the replacement cost with another brand that does not have these design deficiencies. They elected to cut their losses and replace their 1 year old Whirlpool water heater with a quality product installed by a quality company. They made the wise choice. 

Now you should also know that I do not generally share my knowledge online with diy types. I feed my family with the knowledge and skill I have aquired with my labor, blood, sweat, and many, many, hours both in books but especially in the field. I am generally against diy projects both from self interest (because you are not paying me to do it for you) but also from a genuine interest in what is best for you. I clean up horrendous messes all over town quite frequently that were caused by "diyers" which in the end cost much more than they would have had they simply called me or some other qualified professional to begin with. I understand that money is tight and nobody wants to spend more than they have to but if you have any number of years on you at all, life experience should have taught you by now that things are seldom as simple as they seem. I say all this in order, hopefully, to help you grasp the value of what I and others are saying to you in this thread. These products are fraught with problems that will repeat themselves even when repaired.

Caveat emptor.


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## Redwood

I agree Smells!

This is clearly a case where an educated consumer is our best customer!:thumbup:

That link Mark Provided is 188 pages of complaints at 10 per page!

Another great forum thread on this topic can be found at Terry Love's with 455 replies and over 87,000 views as of this morning.

Terry Love's Whirlpool Water Heaters Defect Thread

The product is a dog and the fix under the class action lawsuit didn't do much to fix it.


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## Pipedoc

Alright, I'll be the one to say it and take all of the heat.

This is old news. 

American made a big mistake with the putting the thermal fuse in-line in the thermocouple. They have paid for it through the class action suit (as they should have) for this horrible design and have since changed to a thermal switch. They are no longer the same product that brought about the lawsuit. Why are we all talking about them as if they are still the same product?

Right now I beleive Rheem to be the biggest piece of junk a on the market with their TRD and a flame arrestor that seems impossible to clean. I won't be a bit surprised if I hear about a class action suit against them. (If I was an attorney I would have already filed that money maker in court.)

I beleive Bradford has the best product on the market even though their flame arrestor can't be adequitly cleaned in my opinion. 

Every manufacturer has a flame arrestor on their heater and they are all susceptable to lint and dust. Some more so than others (only because of size) but again, they are all susceptable. 

The advantage that every other manufacturer has over Rheem and Bradford on their flame arrestors is they are easy to clean with satisfactory results. If American or A.O. Smith or State or any of the others would change to a full size arrestor like Bradford I beleive they would have a better product.

I have seen FVIR shutdowns on every brand of heater that is sold in my area, including Bradford White.

I still beleive the problem could be all but completely resolved by using a design like Bradford White's where the make-up air enters the heater through the side of the jacket and adding a pleated filter to prevent dust and lint from being sucked into the unit and down to the flame arrestor. It works for my furnace. Why not my water heater?

Dunbars customer should have called him in the first place instead of compounding their problems and using a handyclown that cost them even more money in the long run. I don't see how that is the fault of American.

[slips on body armor and enters the bunker] Okay, fire at will.


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## Pipedoc

Master Mark said:


> ..........
> I have read that both Rheem and Bradford White both have cried foul
> a long time ago becasue American heaters was allowed to modify their heaters
> after the class action lawsuit but did they not have to pass the antsi and ul standards on the new design...


Mark,
Would you please site a source on this? I am most interested in reading this.


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## Protech

I install American. The design I install is nothing like that. Are there 2 types or something? Mine have a wrap around filter that is removable for cleaning. I'm doing one on Tuesday. I'll shoot some pics.


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## Protech

That's what my preimier/american heaters have. It can be removed for cleaning to, just like a reusable furnace filter.



Pipedoc said:


> Alright, I'll be the one to say it and take all of the heat.
> 
> This is old news.
> 
> American made a big mistake with the putting the thermal fuse in-line in the thermocouple. They have paid for it through the class action suit (as they should have) for this horrible design and have since changed to a thermal switch. They are no longer the same product that brought about the lawsuit. Why are we all talking about them as if they are still the same product?
> 
> Right now I beleive Rheem to be the biggest piece of junk a on the market with their TRD and a flame arrestor that seems impossible to clean. I won't be a bit surprised if I hear about a class action suit against them. (If I was an attorney I would have already filed that money maker in court.)
> 
> I beleive Bradford has the best product on the market even though their flame arrestor can't be adequitly cleaned in my opinion.
> 
> Every manufacturer has a flame arrestor on their heater and they are all susceptable to lint and dust. Some more so than others (only because of size) but again, they are all susceptable.
> 
> The advantage that every other manufacturer has over Rheem and Bradford on their flame arrestors is they are easy to clean with satisfactory results. If American or A.O. Smith or State or any of the others would change to a full size arrestor like Bradford I beleive they would have a better product.
> 
> I have seen FVIR shutdowns on every brand of heater that is sold in my area, including Bradford White.
> 
> I still beleive the problem could be all but completely resolved by using a design like Bradford White's where the make-up air enters the heater through the side of the jacket and adding a pleated filter to prevent dust and lint from being sucked into the unit and down to the flame arrestor. It works for my furnace. Why not my water heater?
> 
> Dunbars customer should have called him in the first place instead of compounding their problems and using a handyclown that cost them even more money in the long run. I don't see how that is the fault of American.
> 
> [slips on body armor and enters the bunker] Okay, fire at will.


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## Pipedoc

A pleated filter? Have they changed?


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## Redwood

Pipedoc said:


> Alright, I'll be the one to say it and take all of the heat.
> 
> This is old news.
> 
> American made a big mistake with the putting the thermal fuse in-line in the thermocouple. They have paid for it through the class action suit (as they should have) for this horrible design and have since changed to a thermal switch. They are no longer the same product that brought about the lawsuit. Why are we all talking about them as if they are still the same product?
> 
> [slips on body armor and enters the bunker] Okay, fire at will.


Thats just it Pipedoc...

It still is the same old product...

The air inlet is still so small that it acts like a vacuum cleaner because of the high flow volume. It is still too close to the floor. For those that have the filter wrapping the base it is a little better but still requires higher maintenance than a home owner will provide in most cases. The retrofit kit and the changes from the FG to BFG models while it did eliminate the thermal fuse in the thermocouple did nothing to fix the basic design error of the Flame Lock, Flame Guard FVIR Systems and that is the design of the air inlet and screen size. The fixed models are now experiencing a rash of gas valve failures due to the frequent trips of the FVIR and they have band-aided that with a new and improved gas valve.

The basic problem is that when the homeowner gets up in the morning and turns on the hot tap, hot water should come out! It should not be a I wonder if I have hot water today. With Bradford White there is virtually no wondering while American's tend to be a lot less reliable.



Protech said:


> That's what my preimier/american heaters have. It can be removed for cleaning to, just like a reusable furnace filter.


While they have the wrap around filter the inlet through the base pan has not changed.


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## Pipedoc

Redwood said:


> Thats just it Pipedoc...
> 
> It still is the same old product...
> 
> The air inlet is still so small that it acts like a vacuum cleaner because of the high flow volume. It is still too close to the floor. For those that have the filter wrapping the base it is a little better but still requires higher maintenance than a home owner will provide in most cases. The retrofit kit and the changes from the FG to BFG models while it did eliminate the thermal fuse in the thermocouple did nothing to fix the basic design error of the Flame Lock, Flame Guard FVIR Systems and that is the design of the air inlet and screen size. The fixed models are now experiencing a rash of gas valve failures due to the frequent trips of the FVIR and they have band-aided that with a new and improved gas valve.
> 
> The basic problem is that when the homeowner gets up in the morning and turns on the hot tap, hot water should come out! It should not be a I wonder if I have hot water today. With Bradford White there is virtually no wondering while American's tend to be a lot less reliable.
> 
> 
> 
> While they have the wrap around filter the inlet through the base pan has not changed.


 I agree that the flame arrestor is too small. Every heater out there is too small except for Bradford White. Bradford White has the same problem though. I clean plenty of these as well. They don't clog as fast because their arresto is larger but they do clog. 

American ended up in the class action suit because of their thrmocouple design. It was common for that thermocouple to fail even though the flame arrestor was not clogged or a flammable vapor incident didn't occur. Add that on top of failures because of clogged arrestors and you have a lot of product failing everywhere. They have changed this design and also have done away with the left hand thread. 

I believe Rheem would be in the same boat with the TRD but they tell people the unit has to be replaced because it is no longer safe to operate after a fvir shutdown. Their policy (the technical bulletin can once again be found on their website) states that this is not warrantiable although it seems they have been honoring a warranty anyway. That has probably been their only saving grace from bad publicity. Now that they are going to start to service these units (some how they are now safe to service)they are going to find out that the TRD is going to fail right away again because the arrestor is clogged, unless they have devised some ingenius way of cleaning an inaccessable flame arrestor. Time will tell but I believe Rheem is going to have a design change to solve their engineering problems.


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## Pipedoc

Protech,

If they are still using that crappy filter with large passages that still allow lint and dust to pass through, then it is junk. The solution is to have a better filter to seal and one of a pleated design, although it may have to be quite large to pass enough air to the combustion chamber.


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## Plumber Jim

Pipedoc said:


> I agree that the flame arrestor is too small. Every heater out there is too small except for Bradford White. Bradford White has the same problem though. I clean plenty of these as well. They don't clog as fast because their arresto is larger but they do clog.


I have not had a problem with teh bradfords clogging but believe it's a matter of time. How do you go about cleaning the bradford white flame arrestors?


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## Master Mark

*my plumbing supplier*



Pipedoc said:


> Mark,
> Would you please site a source on this? I am most interested in reading this.


Actually this was something that went down back in about 2003-4, I got this information from my Rheem suppliler and he got it from his rep...

Rheem and Bradford were very upset that they were forced to spend millions and millions of dollars to pass the antsi and ul rateings and for some reason, 

the government let American water heater slide on their ****ty design and re-sdesign of their units....

the government has not forced them to redesign the unit and spend the $$ money to pass antsi and ul inspections...

they gave them a "pass" so what I was told is they are really not presently approved by either lab.....

This is all word of mouth , here-say... and 

plumbers and their salesman chewing the fat on a Wednesday morning at my office....drinking coffe... 

I just trust my source whom I wll name 
"deep throat"

I will look for more concrete info for you next week...



Now here is a pic of the new SMITH design with the 
ladies nylon stocking wrapped around the bottom..
and they have adopted the Whirlpoool screen on the bottom too

enlarge the pic and you should be able to see the lint filter.

*this is just as dumb as hell.*


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## Redwood

Plumber Jim said:


> I have not had a problem with the bradfords clogging but believe it's a matter of time. How do you go about cleaning the bradford white flame arrestors?


I think you may be right about that being a matter of time...

But, Bradford has done everything right in their design so it isn't going to be vacuuming the floor, and the screen is significantly larger in its surface area so the velocity is a lot less likely to pick up the lint and will take a lot longer to clog and become a problem.

As far as cleaning I'll cross that bridge when I get there...
Haven't had the need yet...


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

*HIRE A LICENSED PLUMBING CONTRACTOR TO WORK ON FVIR RATED WATER HEATERS*​ 



Here's a crucial statement involving those bottom fed air intakes:​ 

When have you ever seen a water heater lay completely flat on a concrete surface? Even though they put that skirting around the unit, when that screen begins to clog it will automatically pull from the uneven surface the water heater is sitting on.​ 
I cannot begin to count how many water heaters I had to shim to get plumb and level, just for the professionalism point of view. I always use flat copper shims made from copper pipe.​ 
If that floor is 3/8" out from left to right, that intake screen is useless. An instant reason for the water heater mfg. to throw blame to another situation that would hinder its ability to perform.​ 
However, why would any water heater mfg. take that risk, losing thousands in product (parts) knowing this probability can happen when it isn't their fault. Meaning, they made the water heater, not the crooked floor it sits on.​ 
I can see the safety benefit of FVIR but why isn't anyone saying a word about a gas dryer in the same room, hot surface ignitor serving as a source of ignition and no one is saying a word about it? Something is flawed with that because it also serves as a source of ignition.​


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## Pipedoc

Plumber Jim said:


> I have not had a problem with teh bradfords clogging but believe it's a matter of time. How do you go about cleaning the bradford white flame arrestors?


Compressed air. But I don't believe it is blowing it all out of the space in the bottom of the heater through the vent openings in the jacket. I don't know for sure 'cause I can't see the bottom of the arrestor.


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## Pipedoc

One other thing I'd like to add to all of this. 

I fully expect to see further changes from every manufacturer out there. Yes, some systems are better than others but they all have their own pros and cons and I don't believe any brand out there today has a system that will stand the test of time. Tooling and assembly production changes along with all of the r&d that proceeds it is very costly and doesn't just happen overnight. Look at how long it took to get 1.6 gallon toilets that flushed worth a damn.


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## Protech

I don't know about you but most of my gas heaters sit in a pan that is pretty flat. I've not had any problems with the screens on the American heaters I'm putting in. I've been installing that brand for a little over 2 years now and haven't had any callbacks on them (I have warranties on them and my magnet is stuck in a conspicuous location on the heater)

Here are some pics of an install I did today with one




DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> *HIRE A LICENSED PLUMBING CONTRACTOR TO WORK ON FVIR RATED WATER HEATERS*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a crucial statement involving those bottom fed air intakes:​
> 
> When have you ever seen a water heater lay completely flat on a concrete surface? Even though they put that skirting around the unit, when that screen begins to clog it will automatically pull from the uneven surface the water heater is sitting on.​
> I cannot begin to count how many water heaters I had to shim to get plumb and level, just for the professionalism point of view. I always use flat copper shims made from copper pipe.​
> If that floor is 3/8" out from left to right, that intake screen is useless. An instant reason for the water heater mfg. to throw blame to another situation that would hinder its ability to perform.​
> However, why would any water heater mfg. take that risk, losing thousands in product (parts) knowing this probability can happen when it isn't their fault. Meaning, they made the water heater, not the crooked floor it sits on.​
> 
> I can see the safety benefit of FVIR but why isn't anyone saying a word about a gas dryer in the same room, hot surface ignitor serving as a source of ignition and no one is saying a word about it? Something is flawed with that because it also serves as a source of ignition.​


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## TheMaster

The dryer doesn't turn on by itself and they do not have a standing pilot anymore.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> I don't know about you but most of my gas heaters sit in a pan that is pretty flat. I've not had any problems with the screens on the American heaters I'm putting in. I've been installing that brand for a little over 2 years now and haven't had any callbacks on them (I have warranties on them and my magnet is stuck in a conspicuous location on the heater)
> 
> Here are some pics of an install I did today with one


 That water heater looks just like a whirlpool.


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## Protech

uhh, what? were did that come from??



TheMaster said:


> The dryer doesn't turn on by itself and they do not have a standing pilot anymore.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> uhh, what? were did that come from??


Dont you read the posts you quote? Read dunbars post you quoted,last paragraph.:whistling2:
I like that homemade vent pipe too!


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## Protech

Oh, ok. I see what you mean about the dryer thing now.
Homemade vent pipe? It's a type b swivel elbow wrapped in aluminum tape. How is that "homemade"?


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> Oh, ok. I see what you mean about the dryer thing now.
> Homemade vent pipe? It's a type b swivel elbow wrapped in aluminum tape. How is that "homemade"?


 Why would you wrap it with tape? Are you sure its not single wall?


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## Protech

I was taught that it helps to seal in flue gases. I don't know if that's true or not but it's a habit now. Yes, I'm sure it's double walled.


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## TheMaster

Protech said:


> I was taught that it helps to seal in flue gases. I don't know if that's true or not but it's a habit now. Yes, I'm sure it's double walled.


 If the vent is working proper it should draw and therfore not leak...plus its double wall. I might could understand you wraping it to make it stronger,those have came apart on me before.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

TheMaster said:


> The dryer doesn't turn on by itself and they do not have a standing pilot anymore.


On that statement about the standing pilot: 


There are tons of those dryers in circulation, but that's not what I'm referencing, I'm referencing hot surface ignitors that are at the bottom of a gas dryer that light up inside. Dryers should be 18" off the ground as a rule, but I never see that happening. 



I got some great pictures of everything discussed on this thread but I'm too tired to put them up tonight. I have to crop some of them to get a better view as well.


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## TheMaster

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> On that statement about the standing pilot:
> 
> 
> There are tons of those dryers in circulation, but that's not what I'm referencing, I'm referencing hot surface ignitors that are at the bottom of a gas dryer that light up inside. Dryers should be 18" off the ground as a rule, but I never see that happening.
> 
> 
> 
> I got some great pictures of everything discussed on this thread but I'm too tired to put them up tonight. I have to crop some of them to get a better view as well.


I understand perfectly and I agree to a degree. Most tank type water heaters have a standing pilot than run 24/7. Most dryers do not have a standing pilot and do not automatically turn themselves on. Any spark or high heat source can ignite flammable vapors...it doesn't hafta be a dryer or a water heater.


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## Redwood

Protech said:


> I don't know about you but most of my gas heaters sit in a pan that is pretty flat. I've not had any problems with the screens on the American heaters I'm putting in. I've been installing that brand for a little over 2 years now and haven't had any callbacks on them (I have warranties on them and my magnet is stuck in a conspicuous location on the heater)
> 
> Here are some pics of an install I did today with one


I can see the homeowner reaching down into the space between the pan and the water heater to remove and clean that air filter...:laughing:

http://www.americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/FG-Filter.pdf

They typically go a year or two before the nightmares start... :whistling2:

I'd say you have problems on the horizon...


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## TheMaster

Those filters are removable but I doubt most people will clean them. Dont those have a reset if they overheat so they can be reset? if so you could clean the filter and hit the reset button and fire her back up.....Now that would be sweet. Plenty of easy service calls in the future.


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## Protech

Yes, they have a reset. If the HO doesn't clean the filter then they get no hot water. It's going to be like the filter on the AC or changing the oil in your car. Do it, or pay big bucks.



TheMaster said:


> Those filters are removable but I doubt most people will clean them. Dont those have a reset if they overheat so they can be reset? if so you could clean the filter and hit the reset button and fire her back up.....Now that would be sweet. Plenty of easy service calls in the future.


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## Protech

The filter snaps out of there in like 2 seconds and if washable. If the HO doesn't do it the first time they will learn the hard way (cold shower, and a service call to clean the filter and hit the reset).



Redwood said:


> I can see the homeowner reaching down into the space between the pan and the water heater to remove and clean that air filter...:laughing:
> 
> http://www.americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/FG-Filter.pdf
> 
> They typically go a year or two before the nightmares start... :whistling2:
> 
> I'd say you have problems on the horizon...


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## Protech

One other thing I feel I should note. There is no dryer in that garage, but there are open gas can sitting 5 feet away from that heater. I think the flame arrestor is warranted in that situation.


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## Mike073175

*american heaters*

American heater are nothing but a public nuisance, get rid of this garbage.
http://www.crockettplumbing.com


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## TheMaster

Mike073175 said:


> American heater are nothing but a public nuisance, get rid of this garbage.
> http://www.crockettplumbing.com


 What does this crappy website/family photo album have to do with this thread?:whistling2:


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## Pipedoc

Mike073175 said:


> American heater are nothing but a public nuisance, get rid of this garbage.
> http://www.crockettplumbing.com


 
How about an intro in the intro section Mike. Or are you just spamming?


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## TheMaster

Just alittle side note......American water heater co in TN... HATES TO HONOR THEIR WARRANTY AND WILL DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING TO PISS YOU OFF SO YOU WILL DROP IT. THEY ARE THE WORST OF THE WORST. THATS AMERCIAN WATER HEATER CO. THAT ALSO MAKES WHIRLPOOL. THE LADY WAS VERY VERY RUDE. I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE OF THEIR PRODUCTS AGAIN AND WILL ADVISE AGAINST ANYONE ELSE BUYING ONE EITHER. I HOPE SOMBODY AT THAT COMPANY READS THIS.....YOU CAN BLAME THE A LADY IN THE WARRANY DEPT. She cost you alot of money today. I use to stay out of a customers choice in water heaters but now I will advise against anything to do or made by AMERICAN water heater manufacturing co. in TN. also the makers of flamelock,whirlpool hot water heaters. U S craftmaster water heater manufacturing co warranty is more trouble than its worth.


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## Protech

You guys are making me take another look at bradford white. This many plumbers can't be wrong (even though I've had no problems)


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## service guy

I had this problem today on my last call. Previous clients, retired low-income seniors. 2003 Whirlpool "flame guard" water heater. The pilot won't stay lit...bad thermocouple. Also a bad expansion tank which I changed. I TRIED AND TRIED to convince the clients to let me replace this POS, since it is the worst water heater in the history of the universe, AND its out of warranty. They can't afford it, bottom line, probably living off of social security.
So I call lowe's and they have FREE burner assemblies complete with thermocouple and the new thermal switch thingamjig.

So I remove the old burner assembly, remembering to change the burner orifice as directed, and I connect the new thermocouple along with the thermal switch that now comes with it, and everything else. AND IT STILL won't stay lit. Still acts like a bad thermcouple. SO I call whirlpool and tell them I think it must be the gas control. So now I have to order the gas control too. Customer still has no hot water, and doesn't even have the money to let me replace the heater.
Out of the goodness of my heart, I just charged them for the TXT, and told them I won't charge them anything for the burner labor, at least until I get the gas valve and get it working. And I warned them that the heater could go bad at any time, and its out of warranty, and this is a bad investment what they are doing...no choice, they have to go with the cheapest option.

What a pain...:furious: Now I gotta order the gas control, and go BACK to this POS.


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## ChrisConnor

Not exactly on topic, but it does have something to do with American Water Heaters.

I had an American Water Heater leaker on February 11. So I call tech support, which is in India of course, and I talk to a lady named "Catherine".

So as the call goes on I ask "Catherine" if she's married, ever been to America, just making small talk while she's getting my return numbers for the leaker She says "no, but she'd like to very much".

Well, the following Saturday night, I get a call from a ++918 telephone number and it's the Indian lady "Catherine" wanting to talk to me. She spoke briefly, apologized for calling and got off the phone. She called again on Valentine's Day, leaving me a message to tell me "Happy Valentine's Day.So obviously she thinks I might be interested in marriage/her coming to America. 
She has called in the middle of the night several times and left messages giving her age (19) and her call back number. She didn't call for a couple of weeks, but she called again Tuesday, but left no message this time.


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## TheMaster

service guy said:


> I had this problem today on my last call. Previous clients, retired low-income seniors. 2003 Whirlpool "flame guard" water heater. The pilot won't stay lit...bad thermocouple. Also a bad expansion tank which I changed. I TRIED AND TRIED to convince the clients to let me replace this POS, since it is the worst water heater in the history of the universe, AND its out of warranty. They can't afford it, bottom line, probably living off of social security.
> So I call lowe's and they have FREE burner assemblies complete with thermocouple and the new thermal switch thingamjig.
> 
> So I remove the old burner assembly, remembering to change the burner orifice as directed, and I connect the new thermocouple along with the thermal switch that now comes with it, and everything else. AND IT STILL won't stay lit. Still acts like a bad thermcouple. SO I call whirlpool and tell them I think it must be the gas control. So now I have to order the gas control too. Customer still has no hot water, and doesn't even have the money to let me replace the heater.
> Out of the goodness of my heart, I just charged them for the TXT, and told them I won't charge them anything for the burner labor, at least until I get the gas valve and get it working. And I warned them that the heater could go bad at any time, and its out of warranty, and this is a bad investment what they are doing...no choice, they have to go with the cheapest option.
> 
> What a pain...:furious: Now I gotta order the gas control, and go BACK to this POS.


 When I get a dead water heater call I ask for the brand and model number,no need to go out if you dont have the parts or cant get them.


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## ChrisConnor

TheMaster said:


> When I get a dead water heater call I ask for the brand and model number,no need to go out if you dont have the parts or cant get them.


That's what I do if it's a Whirlpool or American, I just ask for the m# and S#,but I will respond for other brands as it's not always a bad part, I've been on calls on other brands where somebody set it to "vacation" or low or the bottom is full of lint. The State Water Heater distributor gave me an attachment for the shop vac to vacuum lint from the screen below, but before that I just used a Libman dryer lint brush. Now I use both.


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## service guy

TheMaster said:


> When I get a dead water heater call I ask for the brand and model number,no need to go out if you dont have the parts or cant get them.


I SHOULD have done this. It was a previous client, so I just jumped in the van after finishing my lunch break. I wish I had never even TOUCHED the flameguard junk.


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## 422 plumber

ChrisConnor said:


> Not exactly on topic, but it does have something to do with American Water Heaters.
> 
> I had an American Water Heater leaker on February 11. So I call tech support, which is in India of course, and I talk to a lady named "Catherine".
> 
> So as the call goes on I ask "Catherine" if she's married, ever been to America, just making small talk while she's getting my return numbers for the leaker She says "no, but she'd like to very much".
> 
> Well, the following Saturday night, I get a call from a ++918 telephone number and it's the Indian lady "Catherine" wanting to talk to me. She spoke briefly, apologized for calling and got off the phone. She called again on Valentine's Day, leaving me a message to tell me "Happy Valentine's Day.So obviously she thinks I might be interested in marriage/her coming to America.
> She has called in the middle of the night several times and left messages giving her age (19) and her call back number. She didn't call for a couple of weeks, but she called again Tuesday, but left no message this time.


That's great, a long, long, long distance stalker.:laughing:


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## Protech

I don't blame her. What would you do if you lived in 3rd world conditions and thought you had a chance with a millionaire of the opposite sex (that's what he is by their standards)



jjbex said:


> That's great, a long, long, long distance stalker.:laughing:


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## artisancorp

Just went on my first one last night and the damn thermocoupler has reverse threads. What designer decided that was a good idea?


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## Plumber Jim

artisancorp said:


> Just went on my first one last night and the damn thermocoupler has reverse threads. What designer decided that was a good idea?


 they put in left hand threads because the thermocouple they used was the shutoff and if they use right hand threads then someone who didn't know better would replace it with a standard thermocouple.


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## ChrisConnor

Plumber Jim said:


> they put in left hand threads because the thermocouple they used was the shutoff and if they use right hand threads then someone who didn't know better would replace it with a standard thermocouple.


I can't even count the times I've seen a HO screw up and try to force right hand threads into a left hand opening.:no:


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## Master Mark

*you are so screwed.....*



service guy said:


> I had this problem today on my last call. Previous clients, retired low-income seniors. 2003 Whirlpool "flame guard" water heater. The pilot won't stay lit...bad thermocouple. Also a bad expansion tank which I changed. I TRIED AND TRIED to convince the clients to let me replace this POS, since it is the worst water heater in the history of the universe, AND its out of warranty. They can't afford it, bottom line, probably living off of social security.
> So I call lowe's and they have FREE burner assemblies complete with thermocouple and the new thermal switch thingamjig.
> 
> So I remove the old burner assembly, remembering to change the burner orifice as directed, and I connect the new thermocouple along with the thermal switch that now comes with it, and everything else. AND IT STILL won't stay lit. Still acts like a bad thermcouple. SO I call whirlpool and tell them I think it must be the gas control. So now I have to order the gas control too. Customer still has no hot water, and doesn't even have the money to let me replace the heater.
> Out of the goodness of my heart, I just charged them for the TXT, and told them I won't charge them anything for the burner labor, at least until I get the gas valve and get it working. And I warned them that the heater could go bad at any time, and its out of warranty, and this is a bad investment what they are doing...no choice, they have to go with the cheapest option.
> 
> What a pain...:furious: Now I gotta order the gas control, and go BACK to this POS.


 


I am sorry you got yourself into this ****ty mess..

go ahead and change that part , odds are you will be pulling your hair out when it still dont come on..


we have found it to be the new crappy thermal fuse design.....overheating .

now if you take the looking glass out and you might get enough air into the unit to keep it from tripping the thermal fuse..

odds are it will all be for nill if you dont..


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## Master Mark

*I have an idea....*



ChrisConnor said:


> I can't even count the times I've seen a HO screw up and try to force right hand threads into a left hand opening.:no:


someone needs to come up with a tool to re-tap those thermostats so the right hand thermocoupling would work:laughing::laughing:

it would make them rich, 
sell it on e-bay only 19.95


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

*Here's why they used the left-hand thermocouple*

The "safety" part of this water heater lies inside that thermocouple that is inside the burner assembly chamber.


They went with a left hand thermocouple so the average homeowner/idiot/plumber could NOT bypass that feature that shuts the unit down instantly. 


This guy yesterday was like talking to a dictionary...guy was packed with knowledge. 














Master Mark said:


> someone needs to come up with a tool to re-tap those thermostats so the right hand thermocoupling would work:laughing::laughing:
> 
> it would make them rich,
> sell it on e-bay only 19.95


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## sparky

service guy said:


> I had this problem today on my last call. Previous clients, retired low-income seniors. 2003 Whirlpool "flame guard" water heater. The pilot won't stay lit...bad thermocouple. Also a bad expansion tank which I changed. I TRIED AND TRIED to convince the clients to let me replace this POS, since it is the worst water heater in the history of the universe, AND its out of warranty. They can't afford it, bottom line, probably living off of social security.
> So I call lowe's and they have FREE burner assemblies complete with thermocouple and the new thermal switch thingamjig.
> 
> So I remove the old burner assembly, remembering to change the burner orifice as directed, and I connect the new thermocouple along with the thermal switch that now comes with it, and everything else. AND IT STILL won't stay lit. Still acts like a bad thermcouple. SO I call whirlpool and tell them I think it must be the gas control. So now I have to order the gas control too. Customer still has no hot water, and doesn't even have the money to let me replace the heater.
> Out of the goodness of my heart, I just charged them for the TXT, and told them I won't charge them anything for the burner labor, at least until I get the gas valve and get it working. And I warned them that the heater could go bad at any time, and its out of warranty, and this is a bad investment what they are doing...no choice, they have to go with the cheapest option.
> 
> What a pain...:furious: Now I gotta order the gas control, and go BACK to this POS.


I know where u are coming from,I run into crap like this all the time here in ky,people livin on fixed income just don't have a pot to piss in,so you have to lowball your fees and when you leave they still talk bad about ya


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## sparky

ChrisConnor said:


> Not exactly on topic, but it does have something to do with American Water Heaters.
> 
> I had an American Water Heater leaker on February 11. So I call tech support, which is in India of course, and I talk to a lady named "Catherine".
> 
> So as the call goes on I ask "Catherine" if she's married, ever been to America, just making small talk while she's getting my return numbers for the leaker She says "no, but she'd like to very much".
> 
> Well, the following Saturday night, I get a call from a ++918 telephone number and it's the Indian lady "Catherine" wanting to talk to me. She spoke briefly, apologized for calling and got off the phone. She called again on Valentine's Day, leaving me a message to tell me "Happy Valentine's Day.So obviously she thinks I might be interested in marriage/her coming to America.
> She has called in the middle of the night several times and left messages giving her age (19) and her call back number. She didn't call for a couple of weeks, but she called again Tuesday, but left no message this time.


Go out there and bang her then get the hell outta there


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## Redwood

A 3 year old thread rises from the dead... :laughing:


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## sparky

Redwood said:


> A 3 year old thread rises from the dead... :laughing:


better than the new crap


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