# Giving bad advice/sabatoging H.O.'s



## Sheppard (Aug 23, 2008)

Just for asking advice on this forum is wrong.I have been visiting this bbs for a while now and I never noticed the banner about it being for pro's only until it was pasted onto a recent thread.
I understand that this place is a think tank for us folks in the biz but if you are going to take the time to give someone bad advice, good advice wouldnt take much longer.Or no advice.
By no means do I think we should offer up anything beneficial to a jackleg, but H.O.'s are allowed to do some things themselves.They end up calling us anyway after they realize they are in deep.
It is not "professional" to treat people like $hit just because they missed a banner.Far better for us as tradesmen to politely point out the purpose of this bbs and advise them to search a little further.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I guess I can attribute givingHO's bad advice to my sick sense of humor.

You don't have to agree with me.

I think it's all a mute point anyway. There was a request by the mods to cease the actvity and close the thread with no replys.

I guess it's all part of the kinder gentler PZ:blink:


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

*Join the #1 Plumbers Forum Today - It's Totally Free! *
_PlumbingZone.com - _Are you a Professional Plumbing Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for plumbers to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that PlumbingZone.com is a great community to join. *Best of all it's totally free!*
*Join PlumbingZone.com - Click Here* 
DIY Homeowners Click Here ​ 



*SHEPPARD,*​ 

*WHEN YOU VIEW THIS SITE BEFORE JOINING, THE BANNER ABOVE HITS DIRECTLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE POSTING THE VIEWER IS LOOKING AT...ALONG WITH THE BANNER IN TOP RIGHT HAND CORNER OF THIS SITE.*​ 
*WE JUST HAD SOMEONE NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE DEFY LOGIC AND NOT ADHERE TO THIS.*​ 

*FURTHERMORE, WHEN YOU REGISTER FOR AN ACCOUNT AT THIS WEBSITE, YOU ARE COMPLETELY ADVISED OF WHAT THIS SITE ENTAILS.*​ 

*ANYONE, I MEAN ANYONE WHO WOULD PURPOSELY MISS THIS MANY STEPS TO BUCK THE SYSTEM PURPOSELY AND IN A SELFISH WAY GETS ANY TYPE OF RHETORIC, BAD ADVICE OR CYNICISM FROM THE BROTHEREN OF PLUMBERS.*​ 
*YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR NOT, WHICH IS IT.*​ 
*AFTER A SHORT TALK WITH A GOOD MEMBER HERE, I WON'T BE PARTICIPATING ON THESE THREADS ANYMORE (pertaining to DIY'r posting threads) BUT I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT I NOW UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC. *​ 

*BUT I CERTAINLY WON'T TAKE A FEEL SORRY ATTITUDE FOR ANYONE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THIS SITE HAS DONE MULTIPLE ATTEMPTS TO GUIDE THEM PROPERLY WHERE IT BELONGS.*​ 
*IF YOU'RE THAT CONCERNED ABOUT THEM, JOIN THEM LIKE I DO ON NUMEROUS SITES, GIVING ADVICE.*​ 

*AND I THOUGHT 22RIFLE'S ADVICE WAS PRETTY DAMN FUNNY. LOL*​


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Sheppard said:


> ....
> It is not "professional" to treat people like $hit just because they missed a banner.Far better for us as tradesmen to politely point out the purpose of this bbs and advise them to search a little further.


Screw 'em. Like someone posted, this is like a bikers bar, except not as gay.


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## Sheppard (Aug 23, 2008)

*YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR NOT, WHICH IS IT.*
*I'm with me.There is no us, with the exception that we share a trade.*
*I try not to say anything online that I wouldnt say to someone in person.*
*Like I said,I missed the banner.I was eager to get to the info.I took a pass on reading the rules and code of conduct also.I find that if I use the manners I was raised with I make more friends than enemies.*
*I dont view the H.O. as an adversary, and I certainly dont mind taking a few minutes to talk plumbing with anyone.Granted this is not the place for that, but I will follow my own rules when it comes to how I treat people.*​


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Sheppard said:


> *YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR NOT, WHICH IS IT.*
> 
> *I'm with me.There is no us, with the exception that we share a trade.*
> *I try not to say anything online that I wouldnt say to someone in person.*
> ...


 
*Fair enough, you're a good man, something I can't be at all times in life.*


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

I just have a STUPID question, why in the world do we call them HO's , I know that means homeowners.......but ummm....

Don't plumbers own houses too?

Anyhow, Roast duck makes an excellent point as do many others,


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

*It's like your mamma done told you. If'n you ain't got nothing nice to say about the man, don't say nothin at all.*

*I have a rule about giving advice to homeowners, even on other forums. One, I never ever give them advice having anything to do with gas or oil heating problems other than find a licensed professional. And when it comes to plumbing I will give service advice for minor repairs and try to persuade them to find a plumber for anything more complicated. If I really am honest about it, I hardly ever give helpfull advice to homeowners at all :whistling2:*


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Sheppard said:


> I try not to say anything online that I wouldnt say to someone in person.
> ....Granted this is not the place for that, but I will follow my own rules when it comes to how I treat people.​



I do say it to their face.

Bottom line, this isn't the place for it. You will never find me in a DIY forum.


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

I also have a rule about giving advice to homeowners on message boards. If they ask, and I'm there, I will try and help if I can. I don't call homeowners idiots or try and degrade them. I will only tell them to call a plumber if it's very obvious they are way over their head. If it sounds like they may be capable of doing the repair I will help them.


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## Sheppard (Aug 23, 2008)

Roast Duck said:


> *Fair enough, you're a good man, something I can't be at all times in life.*


The most any of us can do is our best.The worst we can do is our least.None of us(self included)are good people all of the time.Human nature I suppose.
I've garnered lots of knowledge from this site.I would like to offer some of my own but I find that everytime I visit there is someone here that has more knowledge and experience than I do.That is why I keep coming back.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Sheppard said:


> The most any of us can do is our best.The worst we can do is our least.None of us(self included)are good people all of the time.Human nature I suppose.
> I've garnered lots of knowledge from this site.I would like to offer some of my own but I find that everytime I visit there is someone here that has more knowledge and experience than I do.That is why I keep coming back.


Were all ears here, post all you like, I'm sure you have something to offer that we all might be surprised to hear. :thumbsup:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I used to be the guy logging thousands of posts on sites like theplumber.com just because I felt like I was doing a good deed by sharing my knowledge with someone in need. After many years I finally woke up, realizing people don't want plumbing advice so they can have the satisfaction of a job well done on their own home.

They want plumbing advice because we are too expensive in their minds for what they think we do. Anybody can do this stuff right? So they get on the net trying to save a buck. So they can spend it on other idiotic stuff in a futile effort to keep up with the Joneses. 

By giving out free advice we are taking money out of the pockets of a real plumber trying to make a living in their town. That guy has probably been YOU and you never new it. 

If folks still want to post DIY questions in a public professional forum they should be prepared to be flamed. As a rule on the many forums I frequent if some moron doesn't follow the rules they quickly go down in flames. That is the beauty of the internet. There is generally zero tolerance for morons who can't READ THE DIRECTIONS. 

All that said, I'm happy to live in a country where we can publicly debate/argue. :thumbsup: Even if it the same argument every day. 


Remember guys, tomorrow is Monday. By my calendar we are due to revisit the tankless debate. Then Tuesday will be Pro-press. Maybe Wednesday we can climb on the pex dead horse. 

I challenge all of you this. Think up one fresh plumbing related topic for this coming weeks discussions. I will do the same. Thank you


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

huh? You say something, Ilplumber? How about that pex stuff, huh? Think it'll catch on? :laughing:


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Plumber said:


> huh? You say something, Ilplumber? How about that pex stuff, huh? Think it'll catch on? :laughing:


Sorry, do you need cliff's notes version of my post. I didn't take into account the short attention span of plumbers when typing:laughing:

Oh look! Something shiny........................


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Sheppard said:


> Just for asking advice on this forum is wrong.I have been visiting this bbs for a while now and I never noticed the banner about it being for pro's only until it was pasted onto a recent thread.
> I understand that this place is a think tank for us folks in the biz but if you are going to take the time to give someone bad advice, good advice wouldnt take much longer.Or no advice.
> By no means do I think we should offer up anything beneficial to a jackleg, but H.O.'s are allowed to do some things themselves.They end up calling us anyway after they realize they are in deep.
> It is not "professional" to treat people like $hit just because they missed a banner.Far better for us as tradesmen to politely point out the purpose of this bbs and advise them to search a little further.


Unwad your panties man.

The goofy advice given is so outrageous, if anyone follows it they deserve the outcome.

Seriously man, I have not seen one single person give a homeowner bad advice or sabotage a homeowner except in a manner that was so far out, it would be obvious to almost everyone they were just goofing with them.

To claim it is actually true bad advice or sabotage is BS.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

ILPlumber said:


> There was a request by the mods to cease the actvity and close the thread with no replys.


I either missed it or forgot it. Link anyone?

I must admit, all the BS from non-plumbers here lately has me less tolerant than usual of DIYers. This is supposed to be a site for professional plumbers only. Then it was expanded to those who owned a plumbing business. Fine. Then it was expanded to those who those who are in a business connected to plumbing somehow. I mean, we have pool guys on here for crying out loud!

Now lately there is a lot more tolerance for non-plumbers to spout off a lot of BS. That ruins the place more than the PEX fights do. And I bet if the BS was kept off, everyone would be less on edge otherwise. Just a hunch and I may be wrong on that.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I've never caught on to the rationalization of banning DIYs but leaving their thread up to ridicule them. I feel everyone would be better served if the DIY was banned and their thread was deleted. When they came back to the site they would get a message saying they were banned because they are not a pro and it would be done. To leave the thread up for people to ridicule makes the site seem a little bit like Internet bullies.

Mark


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## U&I Plumber (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't agree with open flames of the less fortunate, but I agree completely with not allowing alot of these discussions making it out into the general public, there is a reason most of us served an apprenticeship. If we do not protect our trade it will be lost. And as far as DIY/Handyman types I say  'em all

I just don't get involved with giving advice away to non Plumbers, call me "old skool"


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

One of the reason we leave the thread visible and not delete it is so when they do log on either as a guest or a new member name, and they get back to seeing the thread they will see the mod message asking them to join the sister site, without that message they freak out and start sending PM's to Nathan, we want them to see we shut it down and linked them to the diy site. I would prefer to lock it down so we don't look like bullies as you mentioned.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

I am pretty passionate about protecting this forum from DIYers. That was the entire premise it was based on, and that we were enticed to come here.

1. Ban DIYers promptly.

2. Delete any advice already given.

3. Lock the threads.

Do that and none of this will ever be an issue. If I remember right, this was how the site got started. And my perception is that things are getting fuzzier now.

But hey, it's not my site. If Nathan wants to open it to DIYers he can. I'll ***** about how we were shafted as I walk out the door. But he can do it if he wants.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

This site will never become a DIY site, me and Bill have already decided to lock down the diy threads and ban the member, we have allowed the thread to stay open to be posted against but it is getting to wild, FYI our friend duckky was banned from this site, it was not that hard to get Nathan to see what we were seeing. Nathan is really cool with everyone on here, he don't talk much but will assit us when needed.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Oh look! Something shiny........................


shiny.....


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

*Drops bag of Schwinn couplings* Shiny!? Where!?


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## pcplumber (Feb 10, 2009)

*I agree 100%*



nhmaster3015 said:


> *It's like your mamma done told you. If'n you ain't got nothing nice to say about the man, don't say nothin at all.*
> 
> *I have a rule about giving advice to homeowners, even on other forums. One, I never ever give them advice having anything to do with gas or oil heating problems other than find a licensed professional. And when it comes to plumbing I will give service advice for minor repairs and try to persuade them to find a plumber for anything more complicated. If I really am honest about it, I hardly ever give helpfull advice to homeowners at all :whistling2:*


and there is no sense in blowing DIY's away since they may call in the future for something different. I agree with your not giving advice on something dangerous. 

There should be a certain amount of respect for a homeowner who tries to make his own repairs. If I were a woman, I would rather have a husband who has enough brains to at least try to repair a faucet, or a toilet seat, rather than being a wimp. There is nothing wrong with a person wanting to save their money. If I were a woman, I would probably feel fairly helpless being with a man who is afraid to touch a screwdriver when stranded in 124 degree heat in the desert. No, I am not gay. This is just an analogy. 

We want to paint a good picture of the plumbing industry and show people that we are professional. Just say, "I am sorry, but this is not a DIY forum."

Ironically,I have seen many members in this forum and the other forum ask how to make repairs for different trades. The reason many customers want to do things themselves is because they have had bad experiences with contractors. Some people enjoy doing repairs themselves and they actually pay more money than what a contractor would charge. One example is drain and sewer cleaning. There are many people who pay more to rent a snake than we charge to clean a drain, or sewer, and they know we charge less. It is often about control. 

When you do the job yourself you have better control. You control the exact time you do the work, you save time from calling and having to be home at a specific time, you can take your time, you learn, you get better satisfaction, you save money, sometimes you do a better job, and when something you repair breaks, you are already familiar with the item and you can easily repair it again. Most plumbers love to repair everything themselves.

Good! I am glad someone else brought up this subject.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

pcplumber said:


> and there is no sense in blowing DIY's away since they may call in the future for something different. I agree with your not giving advice on something dangerous....


DIYs have never been _our_ customers and never will be. The chances of them calling back or even remembering which chimp of a plumber gave them free advice last time is slim to nil.

There's a plumber in every town who advertises "free phone plumbing advice". That ain't free, bubba. Either you are burning a job or paying someone to burn a job and how free is that? And while you're wasting my money talking to some drunk DIY, there's real customers trying to call you. How free is that?

As for asking for help on other pro sites, its called professional courtesy and should not be confused with other issues. Besides, how difficult can running wire be? Or hanging rock?


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

pcplumber said:


> and there is no sense in blowing DIY's away since they may call in the future for something different. I agree with your not giving advice on something dangerous.
> 
> There should be a certain amount of respect for a homeowner who tries to make his own repairs. If I were a woman, I would rather have a husband who has enough brains to at least try to repair a faucet, or a toilet seat, rather than being a wimp. There is nothing wrong with a person wanting to save their money. If I were a woman, I would probably feel fairly helpless being with a man who is afraid to touch a screwdriver when stranded in 124 degree heat in the desert. No, I am not gay. This is just an analogy.
> 
> ...


This ain't about whether a person should help a DIYer or not. It's about whether DIYers belong on this site and how we should treat them here.

They are not allowed here. Period.


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## Wethead (Oct 13, 2008)

Plumber said:


> DIYs have never been _our_ customers and never will be.


That should be the most ignorant statement of the year.....

Why don't you give me a call, and let me open your eyes a bit.

Pm ME for my number


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

*"zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzWhat, something shiny?"*


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## Marlin (Aug 14, 2008)

If we're actually sabotaging homeowners they kind of deserve it. Most all the "advice" we give is so absurd that they should pick up on it pretty quickly.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

shiny......


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## pcplumber (Feb 10, 2009)

*It is strange how I relate everything to a movie.*

This reminds me of the movie The Grinch when the mayor said, "an oooooh, the anger!"

It seems like a lot of anger and I am not suggesting that we help DIY's. I only said we should be more professional, polite, understanding, and most plumber are DIY's for every trade.

I say every person is a potential customer. Maybe the DIY is not a customer but they recommend a relative, or friend to you, or they don't because you blew them up.

I think we talked about this subject before. We are going to treat every human like a potential customer and we are going to go to every customer's home even if they want a light bulb changed. If you don't understand then you won't know how much money you are losing. I see a lot of stepping on dollars to pick up nickels.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

pcplumber said:


> This reminds me of the movie The Grinch when the mayor said, "an oooooh, the anger!"
> 
> It seems like a lot of anger and I am not suggesting that we help DIY's. I only said we should be more professional, polite, understanding, and most plumber are DIY's for every trade.
> 
> ...


Oh, that's okay then.

Hey, who are the two girlies in the home show picture?


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## pcplumber (Feb 10, 2009)

*Two girls*



Plumber said:


> Oh, that's okay then.
> 
> Hey, who are the two girlies in the home show picture?


Girl on the right is my ex-wife and on the left is a friend of my daughter. Victorina in the web site is my wife. All three of them are hard-working, beautiful, and kind people. Y


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## user823 (Feb 3, 2009)

I went to the Philippines when I was in the sevice. I got along great with the women there! LOL
10 bucks goes a long way in the Philippines!


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## pcplumber (Feb 10, 2009)

ironranger said:


> I went to the Philippines when I was in the sevice. I got along great with the women there! LOL
> 10 bucks goes a long way in the Philippines!


$10 used to, but a decent hotel there is about $200 per day. I love the women there and I have two plumbers who met some women on filipinaheart.com and they are going to meet women there in April. I think I may go and you are welcome to come, but I think my wife will tag along.


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## Plumber (Jan 18, 2009)

Man, I gotta get a new ex.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

My ex makes the wickid witch of the west seem like a nice girl


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