# Strange Fluidmaster



## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Does anyone recognize this contraption? There’s a chain from the handle to the float on the fill valve. It looks like it’s designed to not allow the float to drop unless the toilet is flushed with the handle. It was binding the handle and not allowing the flapper to rise properly. It was a Sterling toilet.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Debo22 said:


> Does anyone recognize this contraption? There’s a chain from the handle to the float on the fill valve. It looks like it’s designed to not allow the float to drop unless the toilet is flushed with the handle. It was binding the handle and not allowing the flapper to rise properly. It was a Sterling toilet.





Funny enough I have run into 2 of those at least. been a while though. Good Idea for a low output well or if you have a lot of sediment. I wouldn't install one of those unless I was forced to however because they can cause issues. If the homeowner understands what is going on and how to work it than it isn't so bad.



While we are on the subject of FM fill valves.....


-Do you change the post and supply line or just the top half when replacing?

-Do you remove the sediment filter/water hammer reducer in the shank or leave it in?




.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> While we are on the subject of FM fill valves.....
> 
> 
> -Do you change the post and supply line or just the top half when replacing?
> ...


I replace the whole unit including the shank and new supply line. I don’t remove filter or hammer reducer.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> While we are on the subject of FM fill valves.....
> 
> 
> -Do you change the post and supply line or just the top half when replacing?
> ...


What is a FM fill valve, I only know "fill valve" And what's a filter and hammer reducer?


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

I've run into those. They are supposed to help prevent floods or wasted water. If the tank develops a leak then the only water that will leak out is what's in the tank. If the chain isn't lifted then the valve won't allow any water through. Likewise if you have a leaking flapper.
Most of the issues are related to improper chain length. I don't like installing them because they get stuck from time to time. I always make sure to show the homeowner how to fix it just in case. 
It's probably been over a year since I last put one in.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tango said:


> What is a FM fill valve, I only know "fill valve" And what's a filter and hammer reducer?


FM= Fluidmaster

The water hammer reducer is that large plastic bullet shaped screw in the bottom of the shank I assume.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> What is a FM fill valve, I only know "fill valve" And what's a filter and hammer reducer?


The filter/hammer reducer is inside the shank where the supply line connects. On all of the replacement ones I have installed it is a white piece of polypropylene plastic that is injection molded. On kohlers and most other toilets with FM fill valves preinstalled it is rubber. It forces the water to take a spiral path. Truth be told I am not sure what function they intended it to perform but I have seen them make a difference for water hammer when the pressure is above ~90psi.

Us service guys at our shop always take them out because they clog up with sediment and then you have to remove the supply line and take it out anyway. I use the corkscrew on my swiss army knife. If you take it out than they almost always pass most sediment and if they do clog its at the top where you can just twist the head of and open the stop a little to clear it out.

As far as changing the FM fill valves I prefer to just pull the lock ring up and remove the top half leaving only the shank that goes through the tank. Then I can pop on a new top assembly. Much faster than draining the whole tank and what not.


.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> The filter/hammer reducer is inside the shank where the supply line connects. On all of the replacement ones I have installed it is a white piece of polypropylene plastic that is injection molded. On kohlers and most other toilets with FM fill valves preinstalled it is rubber. It forces the water to take a spiral path. Truth be told I am not sure what function they intended it to perform but I have seen them make a difference for water hammer when the pressure is above ~90psi.
> 
> Us service guys at our shop always take them out because they clog up with sediment and then you have to remove the supply line and take it out anyway. I use the corkscrew on my swiss army knife. If you take it out than they almost always pass most sediment and if they do clog its at the top where you can just twist the head of and open the stop a little to clear it out.
> 
> ...


That's a new one for me, the fill valves I buy usually have a cone rubber washer stuck stuck in there. I thought they were for chrome speedways? I always removed them. Is that the hammer reducer you are talking about? I should take some pics.

When I see a faulty fill valve I replace the whole thing, there's too many models anyway to just replace half of it and did you see my post about a broken nut? On top of that flex speedways should be changed between 5-10 years. If I don't change it and it blows who do you think will get blamed for the flood and who get's the bill?

I rely on the words of Tommy Plumber, to do what's best for the customer, and it also saves my a$$ using due diligence.


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## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Stupid sales gimmick. As VA Hydrorooter already mentioned it holds the fill valve up (off position) until you flush.

It will still waste an entire tank of water every time until somebody decides to fix the dumb thing. We can't idiot proof everything on this planet FFS.

Those are aftermarket fills, never seen one in a new toilet. 

Kinda like the ones with the bowl primer adjustment. I guess that's a good idea, but for god's sake they only have flow restrictors listed for about 20 toilets. The rest of them you gotta sit there and monkey with it for 15 minutes to get the level right. Somebody has a galvanized supply line, forget it. You could be there all day waiting for that [email protected]$^% to refill.

Do a little more research before you market a product like that.

I'm about to go postal. :vs_laugh:


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## alson (Apr 18, 2014)

When I see those I take it out and replace it with just a plain old Fluidmaster. No sense fooling with something that causes trouble and is much too complicated for what it is supposed to do.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Reading threads like this makes me glad I rarely do service work. As my old man used to say, "Fix one thing and something else breaks."


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Plumbus said:


> Reading threads like this makes me glad I rarely do service work. As my old man used to say, "Fix one thing and something else breaks."


That's why I bring a big bottle of water on the tuck for those 1 hour calls they sometimes turn out to be 5.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

I never saw one in 20+ years and now it’s 2 in two weeks


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