# Sewage ejectors



## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Any other States out there allowing alternative venting options for sewage ejectors besides a vent through roof? I heard Mi is working on getting one approved.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Studor has a funny little drawing of how to do it with their crap...
Funny thing is that it would work with or without their vent installed....

Say have we met before?
How about an intro...


----------



## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

What exactly is a sewer ejector, we dont have basements.


----------



## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

easttexasplumb said:


> What exactly is a sewer ejector, we dont have basements.


like a sump pump but designed for evacuation of more than just water. THey have to be installed in sealed containers of course because of being part of the drainage system and not trapped. Not all sewage ejectors are created equal. Some are adequate for a single family home and are installed in a basement or a it outside. At the other end of the spectrum are the big grinder, macerating behemoths that are put in and out of lift stations with a hoist or crane.

Often they are rated by how large of solids they will pass through.

Pictures are worth a thousand words.... http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&...tle&resnum=6&ved=0CEwQsAQwBQ&biw=1920&bih=947


----------



## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Studor has a funny little drawing of how to do it with their crap...
> Funny thing is that it would work with or without their vent installed....
> 
> Say have we met before?
> How about an intro...


Sorry Redwood, My name's Joe. I just posted an introduction.

It probably will still work without a vent depending on the length of the discharge line and if the fixtures it's serving are vented properly. Also I believe the IPC requires a check valve in which "seals off" any way for gases in the system to exit the basket or pit so a venting method for the pit is a must. I haven't seen the Studor drawing but it's probably similar to the way I've been doing it in un-inspected, existing home applications. Obviously on a new construction situation venting it through the roof is ideal. :drink:


----------



## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

a22ozbeer said:


> Sorry Redwood, My name's Joe. I just posted an introduction.
> 
> It probably will still work without a vent depending on the length of the discharge line and if the fixtures it's serving are vented properly. Also I believe the IPC requires a check valve in which "seals off" any way for gases in the system to exit the basket or pit so a venting method for the pit is a must. I haven't seen the Studor drawing but it's probably similar to the way I've been doing it in un-inspected, existing home applications. Obviously on a new construction situation venting it through the roof is ideal. :drink:



AND YOUR PROUD OF THIS?


----------



## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

RealLivePlumber said:


> AND YOUR PROUD OF THIS?


Where in my reply does it say anything about being "proud" of anything? Unless I just don't see it???? Damn, I really should get my eyes checked :bangin:


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

The picture below is Studor's justification of how to use their crap product to vent an ejector pit. Tell you the truth I wouldn't expect anything less from a company that claims their product can be used to cap a vent in an attic "without the need to extend the vent through the roof" isn't that just the epitome of laziness? Gawd sakes man you've extended the vent to the attic and you can't bother with the roof penetration?:blink:


----------



## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

Redwood said:


> The picture below is Studor's justification of how to use their crap product to vent an ejector pit. Tell you the truth I wouldn't expect anything less from a company that claims their product can be used to cap a vent in an attic "without the need to extend the vent through the roof" isn't that just the epitome of laziness? Gawd sakes man you've extended the vent to the attic and you can't bother with the roof penetration?:blink:


Yes Redwood, thats exactly how I've been doing them the past few years. In theory it does it's job. I do not like using AAV's, but in existing homes it saves home owners the headache of the demo mess and price in trying to fish a dry vent through the roof. like anything else, some inspectors are ok with this and some not


----------



## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

I have been called to a couple of houses where some one had tried to Studor an ejector pit. It doesn't work. I don't see how it could since the Studor is designed to draw air in for venting but seal shut to prevent sewer gas from entering the building. 

What happens is that the whole pit pressurizes when water is run sealing the Studor. As such, it _can't_ allow any air in and nothing plumbed to that pit drains worth a darn.

I see they published a diagram, but I still don't see how it's going to work.

Can someone clue me in?


----------



## a22ozbeer (Jan 15, 2011)

greenscoutII said:


> I have been called to a couple of houses where some one had tried to Studor an ejector pit. It doesn't work. I don't see how it could since the Studor is designed to draw air in for venting but seal shut to prevent sewer gas from entering the building.
> 
> What happens is that the whole pit pressurizes when water is run sealing the Studor. As such, it _can't_ allow any air in and nothing plumbed to that pit drains worth a darn.
> 
> ...


It cannot pressurize when making the "re vent" connection to the discharge pipe like in the diagram. Thus the reason for the connection.


----------



## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

a22ozbeer said:


> It cannot pressurize when making the "re vent" connection to the discharge pipe like in the diagram. Thus the reason for the connection.


Ok, I get it now. 

I suppose in a situation where it may not be feasable to get a vent through the roof, it could be an option if permitted by code in the area you're working in.

It wouldn't fly where I'm from though. That was the reason I got sent on those calls. Home owner had attempted to add a bathroom to his basement and decided to studor the whole mess.

To his credit, he _did_ pull a permit to do his own work, but when he failed his inspection, the local PI suggested he call a plumber to correct the situation.


----------



## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

The AAV (air admittance valve) manufacturer is relying on the assumption that when the pump fires and starts to remove water from the sealed tank the AAV will open and replace the displaced fluid with air. If the pump float is set so that the pump fires before the water in the tank reaches the height of the waste inlet on the tank, that inlet, if not full of running sewage from a toilet flush or a draining tub, will act as a vent as well (assuming the fixtures served by the ejector are vented). If the AAV and the inlet pipe fail to let in adequate air, a vacuum will be created and the pump will stop pumping and overheat. 
Even if this set up were legal where I work, which isn't the case, I'd still run a properly sized vent from the tank through the roof and if concerned about the vent penetration, I'd hire a roofer to set the flashing.


----------



## bartnc37 (Feb 24, 2009)

I agree venting up and out to atmosphere is the best way to go but isn't a properly sizes drain line designed to flow only half full of water? If for example we have a floor drain or receptor going to a sump we can use the FD vent to vent the sump as long as it is within the specified trap to vent distances based on the size of the pipe. On 3" for us that could be up to 24' away and code wise we'd be all set.
I realize I'm rambling a bit but that revent diagram looks like its just taking advantage of the air column in the existing gravity drain, assuming of course the gravity drain is sized and vented properly. In that setup the AAV would actually be a bit redundant.


----------



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

bartnc37 said:


> I agree venting up and out to atmosphere is the best way to go <snip>
> 
> No one has mentioned side wall venting.
> IE: Basement bath retrofit ...
> Here we can side wall vent the tank and the fixtures on the tank part of the system, if there is no other way up to the roof, without destroying the property. There must be at least 10' distance to any window or adjoining structure or any other appliance vent. The vent outlet would look just like a PVC water heater powervent discharge. [screened] against varmits and birds.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

bartnc37 said:


> I realize I'm rambling a bit but that revent diagram looks like its just taking advantage of the air column in the existing gravity drain, assuming of course the gravity drain is sized and vented properly. * In that setup the AAV would actually be a bit redundant.*


Yep it's just Studor's way of selling their crap.... :laughing:


----------



## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I dont get the auto vents, the good ones are expensive. When is the last time anyone has seen a VTR fail to work. The AAV's are only legal here on mobile homes, and I think the new ones actually have VTR.


----------



## 3/4 MIP (Dec 1, 2009)

In Illinois, AAV cannot be used in lieu of traditional venting. Any new house with a basement has to have a floor drain which, if below grade of sewer, requires an ejector installed. 

If your doing a permit job, seems like the best practice correct way, is to tie the ejector pit vent into the existing vent system. I try to stay away from AAVs.

3/4


----------



## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

we have saniflows over here that are macerator pumps behind water closets used in basements or a long distance from a drain line.

look at number 5
http://www.saniflo.co.uk/pdf/Saniflo%20-%20Ten%20Golden%20Rules.pdf










we only vent these in rare cases when you need to discarge downwards thru a floor to below.


----------



## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

we have those piece's of junk over here as well .. I do not like them , they suck to work on. We are also the Warranty repair dealer for them , So i get to fix them in the shop from time to time .. Seems they have issues with the capacitors in the on/off switch.

Lifer...


----------



## ianclapham (Jan 10, 2011)

i came across this pump last month, inlet on left and centre pumped outlet on right through blue valve, very little capacity so 5 gals in 5 gals out.


----------

