# Master Plumber??



## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Ok explain this to me please??

I've been plumbing for 14 +/- years, 10 as apprentice *But fast tracking to my contractors* Journeyman since Dec 2010, ok'ed by the state to take contractors test failed the first one but passed the Business and Law. *failed journeyman once as well*. 

Are you a Master Plumber when you hold a Active Contractors for 5 years or more? or is it just by your own gut feeling about yourself??

In some regard I consider myself a Master Plumber, But know I still need to learn plenty more. I'm a go-getter, and supervise myself.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

You're a master plumber when the state you live in tells you that you are. That usually means passing the master's exam. Unless you can get grand-fathered in. 

My state has (2) classes of master plumbing license: county or state. 

In my state, (FL) anyone who holds a county master's license for (5) years, has had no disciplinary action, may apply for the state-wide master's license. But it's up to the const. industry licensing board if they want to grant it or not.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

When I first started in the trade, I believed that the term "master plumber" meant that someone was just a REALLY good plumber...
"laughing"

I live in a city of about 130,000 people, and a masters license is only good in my town. If you want to work in any other city, even one that borders this one, a separate license must be attained.

So to answer your question SG, depending on your jurisdiction, you will need to write a "Master's Exam" for every city you wish to perform work in. All it entitles you to do is pull permits and call for inspection as well as operate a plumbing business.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

In Texas now you have to hold a journeyman license for at least four years, or take board approved courses. Then you can apply to take the masters exam, if you pass you can become a master plumber.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

No matter how good you are or think you are, in Oklahoma until pass the exam and carry liability insurance, and post bond, your not a Master or as they call it in Oklahoma "Plumbing Contractor".


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

In my state you can do 4 years as an apprentice starting at age 17. After that you can take the journeymans exam and then six months later the masters so theoretically you can be a master plumber at the age of 21 1/2 Which would be ther reason why there are so many incompetent master plumbers in the state. There is a huge difference between passing a written exam and the years of experience it takes solving real world plumbing problems. Licensing has pretty much become little more than revenue enhancement for the state.


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## PlumbersSanJose (May 22, 2011)

In CA we have a contractors license not a master plumber designation.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Illinois has no "master plumber." You are either a licensed apprentice or licensed plumber. If you are union, you need to get your state license to journey out.


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## Hoozycoozy (Apr 26, 2011)

In Kentucky you apprentice for two years, then you can take the journeyman exam. Two years after that you can take the masters exam.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

New Mexico is a Licensed Contractor state.


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## Herk (Jun 12, 2008)

Idaho has 4-year apprenticeship. Then you can test for journeyman's. In order to become a contractor you have to show 2-1/2 years of "dealing with the public." That could be anything from managing a service station to doing service work as a journeyman. The contractor's license can be held by someone who is not a journeyman plumber, if I understand it correctly - he can run the plumbing business but he cannot do the work.
No Master Plumber qualification here.


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## plumber p (Sep 19, 2010)

Wisconsin is a 5 year apprentice program. They you need to write your Journeyman exam. After 3 years, you may write for your Master's Lic.


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Oklahoma its 3 years apprentice, 2 journeyman. but if you prove through a licensed contract plumber that you have the equivalent of 5 years or more your eligible for the contractors. You can work as a journeyman with it inactive, meaning you CAN NOT contract jobs, to be a CONTRACTOR you have to pull surety bond, and insurance before you can have an active contractors. For city licenses you have to show the city your licenses then they will issue you one, then you pay. I have the "Master Plumber Exam Prep" book. I remember what the gentleman that taught me plumbing said long ago, "If you think you know it all go sit on a stick of dynamite, cause you don't! I've been doing this for 68 years and I still learn new things!"

Heck everyday I learn new things, through you guys! 

*May God walk with those in Joplin. (I have a cousin living there)


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Apprentice = 4 years of OJT + mandatory school hours in an approved plumbing apprenticeship program (was 5 years years and changed to 4 years in c:1976) License fee $25.00 annually

Journeyman = Apprenticeship time served adn msut pass state exam. Exam fee $75.00. License fee $75.00 annually

Master = Must hold a Journeymans license 1 year and pass masters exam. Exam cost $125.00. License fee $250.00 annually

Plumbing Contractor only required if you are bidding jobs over $20,000. Must pass contractors exam. A minimum net worth is required.


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## Pipecommandor (Apr 18, 2011)

shakeyglenn68 said:


> Ok explain this to me please??
> 
> I've been plumbing for 14 +/- years, 10 as apprentice *But fast tracking to my contractors* Journeyman since Dec 2010, ok'ed by the state to take contractors test failed the first one but passed the Business and Law. *failed journeyman once as well*.
> 
> ...


 Your either a Master Plumber licensed by your state or your not !!! This is not that hard to determine, a Master Plumber license is earned, did you follow the correct procedures that all other Master Plumbers did?? If you have to ask then you already know that NO your not a Master Plumber. Do you carry liability insurance, can you pull permits in your town or city, do you pay a Master Plumber fee with your state every year. COME ON NOW !!! REALLY.... REALLY!!!


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> In my state you can do 4 years as an apprentice starting at age 17. After that you can take the journeymans exam and then six months later the masters so theoretically you can be a master plumber at the age of 21 1/2 Which would be ther reason why there are so many incompetent master plumbers in the state. There is a huge difference between passing a written exam and the years of experience it takes solving real world plumbing problems. Licensing has pretty much become little more than revenue enhancement for the state.


Again... I won't take credit for this quote that I believe was originally posted by "wundumguy"...

"I am the living proof that one can score VERY high on a government sanctioned test and yet not know very much".

Classicly True (for me anyways...):laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> Apprentice = 4 years of OJT + mandatory school hours in an approved plumbing apprenticeship program (was 5 years years and changed to 4 years in c:1976) License fee $25.00 annually
> 
> Journeyman = Apprenticeship time served adn msut pass state exam. Exam fee $75.00. License fee $75.00 annually
> 
> ...








Florida used to have that years ago but it was dropped.


"The board shall, by rule, adopt guidelines for determination of financial stability, which may include minimum requirements for net worth, cash, and bonding for Division I certificate holders of no more than $ 20,000 and for Division II certificate holders of no more than $ 10,000. Fifty percent of the financial requirements may be met by completing a 14-hour financial responsibility course approved by the board." -Fl. state statute 489.115(7)


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Pipecommandor said:


> Your either a Master Plumber licensed by your state or your not !!! This is not that hard to determine, a Master Plumber license is earned, did you follow the correct procedures that all other Master Plumbers did?? If you have to ask then you already know that NO your not a Master Plumber. Do you carry liability insurance, can you pull permits in your town or city, do you pay a Master Plumber fee with your state every year. COME ON NOW !!! REALLY.... REALLY!!!


My question stems from the fact Oklahoma doesn't have a "Master Plumber". As to can I pull permits? Not yet as for I won't turn the license to active till a few more months, However I won't work anywhere besides where I do (under a contractor at the moment). As to not knowing if "I'm a Master Plumber or not" I know I still have some to learn, with that said are you telling me that a Master Plumber has nothing new to learn? 

I can make it active ASAP But that would involve my employer paying for the surety bond, and liability insurance. Considering the fact that I don't wish to work for this Employer for the next 2 years, I will pay for it myself! Thus have to wait till I make the money to pay for it replacing $7+K in tools has taken away from that fund some.

Oklahoma Contractors $330 ($30 for application) $88 for test by PSI. $300 annually.
Journeyman $75 annually

Oklahoma Corporation Commission Certified Nat Gas Inspector $100 monthly (required when you service equipment/property that uses more than 3Metric Tons of Nat. Gas monthly)
Oklahoma HAZMAT License $100 monthly (State required when handling Hazardous Materials)
Class II Grey Water License $200 Annually (Required in State when you are working In/On Water Treatment Plants)


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Your def not a master plumber. And your kind insulting anyone who had to go through the process.
You can't self proclaim yourself as a master plumber.

To become a master plumber Check this website out:


http://www.contractors-license.org/ok/Oklahoma.html#ok3


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

NYC Plumber said:


> Your def not a master plumber. And your kind insulting anyone who had to go through the process.
> You can't self proclaim yourself as a master plumber.
> 
> To become a master plumber Check this website out:
> ...


Kind of insulting???
Not to throw the first insult out there but click the link,http://www.ok.gov/cib/Applications/index.html then click Plumbing Application. A PDF will pop up, the read requirements for Plumbing Contractor. "Must show and prove (4) four years plumbing experience on the job." 10 is a bit of over kill! What part of "I have been approved to take contractors did you not read??" What part did I miss there? failed it once as well as the journeyman's test once. I must be barking up the wrong tree here,:whistling2: I guess not passing the test your first time is grounds for others to say "Your insulting us!" 

I know a gentleman that holds a out of state license but works as a contractor here, he's been plumbing for 8 years and claims to be a "Master Plumber" for that is what his license says on it. But does that make you a "Master Plumber"?? Just because the license says you are??

I know other states will make exceptions on contractor licenses if your license is in good upstanding in the state you are currently licensed in. But not requesting this by him tells me his license is not in a good upstanding with that state. so he works without it. If your going to say your a "Master" then prove it and get that license. That is what I am doing.


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oklahoma no jobs can be taken without being insured and bonded, none, notta, nothing, zero, zillish! if ya make a penny on a job on a inactive license that you went out to do, then your breaking the law.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

This really varies by state. CA has NO "plumbing license", only a "plumbing contractor" license, which is not hard at all to get, but you do need to show 4 years relevant work experience. Just like arnold showed maria he is a nice guy!


If you are in a union, they probably have 'journeyman' and 'master' programs, but that is not a state legality.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

shakeyglenn68 said:


> Kind of insulting???
> Not to throw the first insult out there but click the link,http://www.ok.gov/cib/Applications/index.html then click Plumbing Application. A PDF will pop up, the read requirements for Plumbing Contractor. "Must show and prove (4) four years plumbing experience on the job." 10 is a bit of over kill! What part of "I have been approved to take contractors did you not read??" What part did I miss there? failed it once as well as the journeyman's test once. I must be barking up the wrong tree here,:whistling2: I guess not passing the test your first time is grounds for others to say "Your insulting us!"
> 
> I know a gentleman that holds a out of state license but works as a contractor here, he's been plumbing for 8 years and claims to be a "Master Plumber" for that is what his license says on it. But does that make you a "Master Plumber"?? Just because the license says you are??
> ...



Maybe I'm missing your point... I really don't understand what your argument is.
But if you are going to take the test good luck to you.
What I meant about the insulting is that it seemed you were self proclaiming master plumber status.
Some of us had to go through a lot to get there, every city has different requirements so good luck to you.


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## suzie (Sep 1, 2010)

Minimum four years to take journeyman once you pass that you may take master. To plumb in Minneapolis and St. Paul you have to have a Master competency card via a test and then yo must have a Minneapolis and St. Paul contractor license a state bond for Minneapolis and Minnesota and St. Paul requires you to have an additional Mechanical Bond to perform gas work. Did you get all that?


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

NYC Plumber said:


> Maybe I'm missing your point... I really don't understand what your argument is.
> But if you are going to take the test good luck to you.
> What I meant about the insulting is that it seemed you were self proclaiming master plumber status.
> Some of us had to go through a lot to get there, every city has different requirements so good luck to you.


 Thank you sir, No I don't look at myself as a "Master Plumber" Personally give me 5 years with an active contractors then we'll see, if its based off experience I have a lot, grounds, T/o, and Finals, plus service. Did a lot of new construction and remodels. Thus if it's experience yes a Master Plumber, (But again in someways yes I do see myself as one, other ways no I don't see myself as one) I could have skipped over the Journeyman's test and went contractors head long, but I wanted to prove to more than me that I can do it.

Oklahoma you do Natural Gas and Plumbing together. If your going to do specialized fields such as Grey Water, Reclaim, Sprinkler Systems, Recycle, or in the Manufacturing/Farm That requires a whole different License. I'm looking to get into more than just plumbing. Natural Gas Pipeline Inspecting. Here its required you hold a contractors for 5 years or more, 200 hours at a University that covers that field, Then you take a closed book test. The license is for inspecting state and privately owned Natural Gas pipelines, Commercial and residential, ALL lines that are regulated by the state corporation committee. 

Here in Oklahoma there is two companies that do it, and those men that operate the companies are seeking people to take over for them. You have to be certified by the corporation committee (Have that one already) and the federal government.


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

grandpa said:


> This really varies by state. CA has NO "plumbing license", only a "plumbing contractor" license, which is not hard at all to get, but you do need to show 4 years relevant work experience. Just like arnold showed maria he is a nice guy!
> 
> 
> If you are in a union, they probably have 'journeyman' and 'master' programs, but that is not a state legality.


Actually all you need is a journeyman or another contractor sign the application saying that you have the relevant work experience. They don't ask for pay stubs or any type of hard evidence unless you're under the age of 25.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

tungsten plumb said:


> Actually all you need is a journeyman or another contractor sign the application saying that you have the relevant work experience. They don't ask for pay stubs or any type of hard evidence unless you're under the age of 25.


Not that easy here... 7 years experience, written test, practical exam. 
That's all the easy part.. Dealing with City departments (DCAS, DOB) is a nightmare....
After you pass these exams,( which are not easy and you need to spend about 10,000 to take the courses, and material for the practical.) then you get to go through about a year of investigations, submitting paperwork, etc... I've heard plenty of horror stories where people pass the exam, spend all that money, then don't get through the investigations and are denied the license.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*not easy here either*

In indiana its pretty difficult to get a masters lisc..
of course you have to get your journeymans first...
which usually means about 5+ years and classes
as an apprentice first....

Colorado is about the same too..... I used to have a masters there too way back in the good old days...
but I let it lapse....

 when you see all the hacks that post their names on Craigs list and claim to be contractors, and no one really cares one bit to enforce the laws... 

 it really pisses me off...


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> when you see all the hacks that post their names on Craigs list and claim to be contractors, and no one really cares one bit to enforce the laws...
> 
> it really pisses me off...


Here if a city inspector gets ya its $500 1st time, 2nd its $1000, 3rd is automatic jail time. Most the time they give you a 90 day ticket, after 90 days they come looking for you. 

State inspectors don't mess with ya much, city municipalities do! (Edmond, Norman, Tulsa, West side OKC *Dennis & Jerry Black worked with them before they became inspectors so they know me well*)

I see it the same way as why someone uses a lock (has to be my moral) Its to keep honest people honest, and the hacks to be known. Just a raw deal for the seniors to get hacks instead of the real guys! 

I knew in some states its harder to get a license, I figured you guys up north have tons of red tape, sand hogs, and unions. There are some unions here but union qualified or not you have to go by the state rules first and fore most. My years of experiance is backed by paycheck stubs, time cards, and an endorsement from a state inspector.

I went with the contractor I'm under to another town a few months ago, he was fixing a hacks job. I didn't care much for him in the past due to the way he treats most folks, But he impressed me, fixed hacks job for a elderly woman on a fixed income his charge to her was meals cooked by her for the two days we worked. He paid for the materials needed to finish and fix the hacks work. He told me what the deal was before he asked me if I would help him, so I knew up front I wouldn't be getting paid for the work, BUT D*** She could COOK!!


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## joeplumber777 (Jun 23, 2011)

There are some states that do not use a journeyman/master plumber designation but license plumbers in terms of being a contractor. In states that break down the plumbing trade along the traditional lines of authority, i.e. journeyman and master plumber, a difference exists in the authority given to journeyman and master plumbers. The licensing test for master plumbers vary from those given to apprentice level plumbers seeking to become journeyman.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Every state and every county has their own set of rules. Kansas City does not require you to have any plumbing experience to take the exam. A neighboring jurisdiction request you have 5 years plumbing experience before you can even take the test. However, there is a separate test that is based on a national standard that you can take. The minimum pass score is higher than that of the standard test. If you are able to pass the National standard master plumber with gas with a score of at least 75%, you can become a Master Plumber.


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## incarnatopnh (Feb 1, 2011)

Heck you all should be thankful. We have it bad here... No exams, no certifications at all! We get beat up by the handy hacks constantly. A group of us legitimate plumbers tried to get the politicians to enact guidelines and exam schedules but they are afraid of putting all of these handy hacks out of business. Makes it tough to compete with the $10/ hr handy hacks!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Master seems like a misnomer for the trade as it is today....


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

joeplumber777 said:


> There are some states that do not use a journeyman/master plumber designation but license plumbers in terms of being a contractor. In states that break down the plumbing trade along the traditional lines of authority, i.e. journeyman and master plumber, a difference exists in the authority given to journeyman and master plumbers. The licensing test for master plumbers vary from those given to apprentice level plumbers seeking to become journeyman.


 




Please post us an intro in the introduction section. Tell us years in the trade, licenses held, area of expertise, etc.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

stillaround said:


> Master seems like a misnomer for the trade as it is today....


 



In our state, they refer to newbies who don't know anything as apprentices; someone who knows what they're doing after 4 or 5 years is a journeyman. So logically a master comes after a journeyman. (Technically the term is a licensed plumbing contractor.) 


It's funny, my brother-in-law is Jamaican, (with a sense of humor). After I got my master's license, he said to me, "Oh, so here we have another example of a black man having to call a white man 'master' "....:laughing:


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## kwikproplumb (May 27, 2016)

What a great in information shared here. Thanks all.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

plumberssanjose said:


> in ca we have a contractors license not a master plumber designation.




c36!


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

*Quebec Canada*

The process of becoming a real Master Plumber :

1) 1800 hours plumbing and heating school. Several exam in between and a final.


2) 8000 hours of apprenticeship, Includes school time. levels: 1,2,3,4 (2000 hrs each) with an exam for plumbing and or heating(pipefitter) at the end.


3) Now that you are a journeyman plumber and or pipefitter you have to pass 4 contractor exams (Regie du Batiment) : Project management, Safety management for constuction sites, reading and interpreting plans and the spec book (I don’t know the proper term) All these tests are drawn from over 20 law books and codes including the Canadian criminal code (over 1800 pages!) I really had to study hard for 7 months 40+ hours each week and attend 6 months of classes to pass these exams!


4) You need to pay for that contractor licence anually, You can’t get that licence if you have a criminal record. You need to have construction bond of 20 000$. You are not allowed to work yet!


5) Once you’ve proven all this you have to pay annualy to be a member in the Master Plumber ascioation.


6) Once everything is verified and paid you are allowed to take the Master Plumber exam with 60% pass grade.


7) Once you’ve passed you are officially a Master plumber. You are plumbing contractor and can work for yourself as a company. If you want to do work on gas (2 different licences + 2 exams), oil or heating you need to pass those exams individually. You need to have a journeyman certificate for each if you want to work yourself in those areas. 
For example I can replace an electric water heater but I would need a contractor gas licence, a journeyman gas fitter certificate AND Gas technician certificate to replace a gas water heater!!!


Notes: You can bypass all the journeyman stuff and succeed the contractor exams but you cannot work in the trades, you need to hire employees who are journeymen and apprentices under the specific contractor trade licence. From what I’ve heard 25 years ago there were no test, all you had to do is call yourself a contractor (needs to be verified).


So I can brag a little and be extremely proud because I’m the only one to have all the journeymen certificates. Anyway the most I’ve seen is 3 journeyman certificate. (I have 6, see 1st post intro). I spent most winters of my adult life going to school to pass these tests. I’m not sure if I want the gas contractor licence. That would entail major insurance for gas $$$


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

They really take plumbing serious in canada.....

its basically a joke here in the united states.....


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Master Mark said:


> They really take plumbing serious in canada.....
> 
> its basically a joke here in the united states.....



The downside of all this pride is... a lot of customers don’t know the journey you had to go through, they don’t care, most of them want wally world prices! Some of them think you should charge minimum wage because they need to keep their new car in the driveway. 

Seriously I see people from overseas who just got here, all new furniture, new large TV, new cars, new appliances, NEW HOUSE and think a new installation for a dishwasher and fridge line costs the same amount of a hamburger and fries!

This morning I got someone on the phone demanding very intensively a free estimate for a fridge line install. He said all the others had free estimates. Good day sir, click! :biggrin:


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

As a contractor my licence can get revoked for a variety of reasons and fines. A lot of them are very severe 20 000$ +. For example I can get fined because my letters on my truck are too small or I don't have the logo on a sticker under a sink.

The joke and this pisses me off is even though its against the law the hacker will post ads and websites that he does plumbing, renovations and such. They will hack away and get paid. They steal and use other contractor numbers, file bankruptcy and reopen the next day under a new name.

The association will not even make them remove their plumbing ads or website. The reason is they would have to bring these hacks to court and spend large sums in lawyers and fees. They may get a letter in the mail with a threat of fines but its not real.

I've been competing against hacks on a particular site, people even tell me the hack is cheaper! :vs_whistle:


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes I know what you mean when I had a shop In L.A. CA. back in early 90's
Had a customer Apt mgr. call me about billing on a furnace repair,
because she had a handyman service do a different apt with the same 
parts at about 1/2 the price she thought that I was ripping her off,
When I pointed out that he was not licensed, did not have Liability Insurance,
and that these things cost more, all she wanted was the cheapest price
for the landlord,

Used to be in CA.that you could do any work without a permit for under $300.00 dollars then in 98 they raised that to $ 500.00 dollars thats when 
I knew it was time to leave !


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