# Delta Faucet Mishap



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

get a call this morning, 
someone had a water line burst in their new kitchen less 
than 6 months old.......

I sent my brother-in law down there to check it out..... 

Basically a $500 special order single hole Delta faucet blew out of 
the stop under the kitchen sink around 2am in the morning and 
flooded the whole kitchen area till about 5am.... 

The Brand new walnut 
floors throughout the whole first floor of this home had about an inch of water on them....This is probably gonna cost somebodies insurance company about 45k or more .:crying:

It Turns out the cabinet guy had someone or he himself did the work installing the Delta faucet and *he cut off the special nuts and ferruls *that the faucet comes with .... 

I have been led to believe you are not supposed to cut off those inserts and nuts cause it voids the warranty.... you are supposed to just loop them up under the cabinet. I have even seen some delta faucets with a warning on the water lines not to cut them off......

I showed up and told the lady that we are not going to hook that faucet back up because of the liability involved and just get another faucet....

some say you can get the special inserts and nuts that go with that poly pex for the Delta faucets but I would rather keep my skin out of this game.....

she has to special order another faucet or find some other dumb ass plumber to gamble on that water line blowing apart again and its not gonna be on my insurance


has anyone out there ever risked cutting off those lines and gotten away with it???
..


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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

I can't remember exactly if it was delta or Moen or what else but I did cut it one time because I had to for some reason I don't remember. I never heard back about any troubles. I normally always just loop the lines around because I don't like to cut them. 

The fact is that they often send a couple plastic ferrules with the faucet so it should be ok to use them.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Do you have any pictures, not really sure if I ever saw that type. Maybe find a link to the specs?


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tango said:


> Do you have any pictures, not really sure if I ever saw that type. Maybe find a link to the specs?


https://www.deltafaucet.ca/media/MandI/92834 Rev F.pdf

Page 9


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I just loop those extra-long supply lines around in a big circle under the sink and connect them to the angle stops. The nut and ferrule are already attached to the supply line. I won't cut those. Like you say Mark, too much liability.

I'm trying to earn a living, not get sued.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

just loop them and secure with a few zip ties to keep em nice...


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## canuck92 (Apr 1, 2016)

Same this happend to me a while back ( deta faucet) It blew within 5 mins, luckily i was still working there.
I loop them an zip tie them together now. A stupid looking loop is better then a flooded house.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Looking on the diagram they have a extra little piece called a back flow? Never seen that on a delta.

And as the supply tubes that are already integrated on the faucets they thread on the 1/2x3/8 valve. So why would anyone cut them and how the heck would you put fitting on the end???


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Debo22 said:


> https://www.deltafaucet.ca/media/MandI/92834 Rev F.pdf
> 
> Page 9




Thanks for finding the specs on this cause I am pretty sure that the home owner thinks I am either a big pussy, or just full of shi/ right now..... 

It says right in the print *do not cut the lines off* and delta is not responsible if you flood the home........


I have not heard back from this lady today so I think their are some sore assho/es running about right now trying to figure out who is gonna get the blame for this flood....... the insurance companies are playing pin the tail on the donkey:vs_laugh::vs_laugh: 

I am pretty sure its the kitchen installer who did the plumbing work ... maybe he had a sub do it..... 

I will probably call the lady in a week to just see how its all going.......


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tango said:


> Looking on the diagram they have a extra little piece called a back flow? Never seen that on a delta.
> 
> And as the supply tubes that are already integrated on the faucets they thread on the 1/2x3/8 valve. So why would anyone cut them and how the heck would you put fitting on the end???




Well, those are good questions and I hope you learned something here Tango.. if nothing else you learn on this site, you now know to never ---ever---shorten any water lines coming off a delta faucet.......

I think you ought to be paying me for all this knowledge that might save your ass some day up there in canada......:vs_laugh: 

but I owe you for the tip on the stair cat I got through you this spring, so I guess we are even


.


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## powellmatthew76 (Sep 11, 2019)

We remodeled a huge dentist office and the G.C. supplied us with around 22 shark bite stops. His instructions were to replace soldered stops with G.C. supplied sharkbite stops. For whatever reason I have no clue and am patiently waiting for a disaster. Not sure what the hell the guy was thinking but Jesus christ not only are they a time bomb they look tacky as ****.

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Master Mark said:


> some say you can get the special inserts and nuts that go with that poly pex for the Delta faucets but I would rather keep my skin out of this game.....
> 
> she has to special order another faucet or find some other dumb ass plumber to gamble on that water line blowing apart again and its not gonna be on my insurance
> 
> ...









WE NEVER CUT THOSE. When they started shipping faucets with those smooth pex lines we had a guy cut them and use the included extra nuts and ferrules. Blew off while he was still working there. That was the only time one of our guys cut them. We all loop them. I usually use some electrical tape up high to hold the loops together. 



We had a customer complain(huge brand new house) about the look one time and our guy looked him dead in the eye and said no, I will not cut those, you get a new faucet. The customer started freaking out and called our boss who was like yeah he's right, we'll sell you a different faucet. Some people with lots of money freak when they get told no, this was one of them. Ain't worth it no matter how much they whine. They even took the instructions out and were like WANH!!! It says here you can! This was before the manufacturers got schit for all the leaks and blow offs.




Tango said:


> Looking on the diagram they have a extra little piece called a back flow? Never seen that on a delta.
> 
> And as the supply tubes that are already integrated on the faucets they thread on the 1/2x3/8 valve. So why would anyone cut them and how the heck would you put fitting on the end???




The check valves are for delta faucets which use a touch-to-turn-on solenoid. You set the appropriate temp/flow with the single handle and then touch the spout to turn it off. The solenoid is hooked to a brain box and solenoid on the hose going to the spout. It shuts the flow off after the mixing so it would create a cross connection without the check valves.


Maybe you are thinking of braided supply lines. The ones we describe are usually grey, solid plastic polyethylene(pex) supply lines. They come with an insert and a nut/ferrule on already but "could" be shortened. The manufacturers used to include extra inserts and ferrules for if you cut them but have since stopped because they blow off. For a while after our first blow off we wouldn't install any faucets with these pex supplies.


Attached are pictures of both the factory made insert ferrule connection and the cut version.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

powellmatthew76 said:


> We remodeled a huge dentist office and the G.C. supplied us with around 22 shark bite stops. His instructions were to replace soldered stops with G.C. supplied sharkbite stops. For whatever reason I have no clue and am patiently waiting for a disaster. Not sure what the hell the guy was thinking but Jesus christ not only are they a time bomb they look tacky as ****.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk


In a pinch they are godsend. I absolutely had to install a slip valve but it kept spinning upside down with the handle on the bottom. Oh well whatever, the main wouldn't shut off completely and I couldn't solder and the pipe wouldn't spread either...


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Now that I think about it they may actually be polypropylene and not polyethylene. Polypropylene is what plastic tubular traps and the semi translucent white plastic trap washers are made from.




















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## powellmatthew76 (Sep 11, 2019)

Tango said:


> In a pinch they are godsend. I absolutely had to install a slip valve but it kept spinning upside down with the handle on the bottom. Oh well whatever, the main wouldn't shut off completely and I couldn't solder and the pipe wouldn't spread either...


Tango I hear u man but you wouldn't remodel anything and use 20 plus sharkbite stops! 

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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> In a pinch they are godsend. I absolutely had to install a slip valve but it kept spinning upside down with the handle on the bottom. Oh well whatever, the main wouldn't shut off completely and I couldn't solder and the pipe wouldn't spread either...





I have used maybe two shark bite fittings in like the past five years. I hate them. But, you are correct, when you need them you need them. Our policy is not to use them. If we do use them in an emergency we come back later and change it out. I have a whole drawer full of shark bite caps on the van. We also never re use them anymore.




We used to use them more often, even bought the crazy expensive kit.














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## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

skoronesa said:


> The check valves are for delta faucets which use a touch-to-turn-on solenoid. You set the appropriate temp/flow with the single handle and then touch the spout to turn it off. The solenoid is hooked to a brain box and solenoid on the hose going to the spout. It shuts the flow off after the mixing so it would create a cross connection without the check valves.


What you just stated about the check valve and solenoid is great information. I never thought of the design of the faucet being able to make a cross connection like that.

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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> I have used maybe two shark bite fittings in like the past five years. I hate them. But, you are correct, when you need them you need them. Our policy is not to use them. If we do use them in an emergency we come back later and change it out. I have a whole drawer full of shark bite caps on the van. We also never re use them anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In that case I never installed a faucet with plastic lines like in your picture. I don't think they are available here either.

As for Sharks you don't use them because you had issues or you just don't want to use them for what ever reason?


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> In that case I never installed a faucet with plastic lines like in your picture. I don't think they are available here either.
> 
> As for Sharks you don't use them because you had issues or you just don't want to use them for what ever reason?





We had a 1/2" cap blow off, it was brand new. We had demo'd a bathroom, we were the first ones in to remove the fixture. What we suspect happened was that the carpenters hit the cap when they removed the drywall from around the stub out. It blew off that night, on a friday of course. And of course of course it was the head masters house at a very high end school. And of course of course of course no one was there until monday. And no one can talk to a horse of course, unless of course, this is the horse, the famous mister ed.


After that you could say we weren't very fond of them. Insurance covered it and we weren't view in a bad light, we have a very good reputation and accidents happen.


Funny story from that same job. At lunch time we would watch the family guy on the big screen tv because it was just sitting there and one of the carpenters brought in all the seasons on dvd. It was the carpenters idea and they freaked the fock out when one day we're watching and the sound cuts off and the screen just goes black but the backlight was still on.

Also there was this carpenter who was a rookie cop. He was like 5'2". He had a lifted dodge pick up he blacked out and riced out. I didn't know he was a cop or that it was his. In his presence I said very loudly to another carpenter I knew, gee, he doesn't have a small penis! He was not happy! lolz








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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Thinking back that was a pretty fun job. The carpenters old manager had taken a job at the school and was handling this job on their end. Well one of the carpenters stole his keys, snuck into his suv, and turned the volume way up, the wipers on, the blinkers, yada yada.


That same carpenter also put a dead bat in the tool belt of another guy while he was wearing it. The guy freaked when he reached for a screw!!






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## goeswiththeflow (Feb 24, 2018)

I forget which brand has the snap in lines to connect the sprayer hose, but I'm not a fan. At first they were great, until I had 2 blow outs. Luckily one was while I was testing. The other was in a unit that I had just finished the trim a few days before and the new owner moved in and discovered it while I was still working in other units. No harm done, and he was understanding. They do not always click when inserted like the manufacturer says, even when fully inserted. Now I pull them off and reconnect if I do not hear and feel it click, but it's a pita getting to those tabs to release it up under the sink.

The bat story is funny, but rabies is a real concern, especially with bats. Yes, dead ones the risk is probably minimal, but since rabies is 100% fatal, not worth taking any chances IMO.


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## czplumbing (Nov 24, 2014)

they are making products so cheap just leave us the 1/2 ips threads and let us do the rest


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

skoronesa said:


> WE NEVER CUT THOSE. When they started shipping faucets with those smooth pex lines we had a guy cut them and use the included extra nuts and ferrules. Blew off while he was still working there. That was the only time one of our guys cut them. We all loop them. I usually use some electrical tape up high to hold the loops together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...









Any thoughts on why these are blowing off after someone cuts the supply lines and uses the nylon ferrule with a 3/8" nut?

Maybe the plumbers aren't tightening the nut enough? I don't cut those factory-installed connectors, but I'm wondering if I have cut some in the past.

Since I torque stuff down past snug, I'm not worried; that is if I ever did cut some way back.

If one snugs the connectors past snug, then blow outs would be reduced in my opinion. But I will have to test that theory.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Any thoughts on why these are blowing off after someone cuts the supply lines and uses the nylon ferrule with a 3/8" nut?
> 
> Maybe the plumbers aren't tightening the nut enough? I don't cut those factory-installed connectors, but I'm wondering if I have cut some in the past.
> 
> ...



I dont think I would test that theory.... the one I dealt with last week only lasted since july of 2019 so the contractor is probably gonna have to pay.........

I would not trust any of them to last a year so why tempt fate......


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> Any thoughts on why these are blowing off after someone cuts the supply lines and uses the nylon ferrule with a 3/8" nut?
> 
> Maybe the plumbers aren't tightening the nut enough? I don't cut those factory-installed connectors, but I'm wondering if I have cut some in the past.
> 
> ...





Probably just getting squeezed and pinched out. A nylon ferrule on polypropylene or polyethylene is pretty dang slippery. I would figure tightening them a lot would make it more likely.


The factory end is essentially a plastic barbed insert fitting that gets pressed inside the line. Must be a pretty hard plastic with sharp edges to grip. That or it's glued/heat fused.








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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

czplumbing said:


> they are making products so cheap just leave us the 1/2 ips threads and let us do the rest





Be careful what you wish for, there are cheap faucets where they have no brass, just chincy plastic, nipples, body, and all!




I have installed some new deltas and moens with ALUMINUM bodies! I am sure you all know how bad aluminum rust is because it expands so much. With brass fittings on the supply lines where they screw in we should have some interesting failures over the next ten years, if they make it that long.











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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

I don’t cut the the factory supply lines, And never have. It’s not worth the risk. Plastic tube is already questionable, why take the risk. 
(I for the most part don’t supply residential faucets..) If they complain about the supplies being to long or ugly- it’s not my prob.

Today a client supplied me with an American Standard, Bidet faucet set. They were not happy with the fact that they could see “the cable” for the AS style PO plug. I taped it back, but they still didn’t like the fact that if they looked around they could still see it..
I said sorry you supplied the faucet.
At least it doesn’t leak...


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## dugansz (Mar 29, 2015)

*#me too*

I also don't cut them and feel like a douche. They are just poly butelyne. I sometime run across PB toilet supplies that have a cut end and ferule. You are definitely not supposed to overtighten. I just loop them even though they are 2 feet long and look stupid.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

dugansz said:


> I also don't cut them and feel like a douche. They are just poly butelyne. I sometime run across PB toilet supplies that have a cut end and ferule. You are definitely not supposed to overtighten. I just loop them even though they are 2 feet long and look stupid.




They are pex, not PB.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> I dont think I would test that theory.... the one I dealt with last week only lasted since july of 2019 so the contractor is probably gonna have to pay.........
> 
> I would not trust any of them to last a year so why tempt fate......











I didn't mean at a customer's house. No way. I meant to test it in my garage {or outside} with a mock-up; an angle stop with a supply line and cap the other end of the supply line.


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## mtfallsmikey (Jan 11, 2010)

czplumbing said:


> they are making products so cheap just leave us the 1/2 ips threads and let us do the rest



Like they used to. 
I long for the day to come back where you got a faucet (Think Delta 100/400) with 3/8" copper stubs.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> get a call this morning,
> someone had a water line burst in their new kitchen less
> than 6 months old.......
> 
> ...


Did you check water pressure before you left??did you see if they had a properly sized and working expansion tank??a lot of things can play into something like this


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> Did you check water pressure before you left??did you see if they had a properly sized and working expansion tank??a lot of things can play into something like this



no expansion tank, pressure about 85psi in that area........ 

It blew off because the Delta faucet is basically an expensive piece of shi/ trying to conform to the liberal California lead standards....

also then some dumbass did no tlook at the warnings on the water lines and cut off the poly lines to size and used common nuts and ferruls to install it..... now there is hell to pay....

I prefer dealing with the Moen kitchen faucets with the soldered on brass adaptors you just hook up your braided flex lines to.....

have not heard back from this lady yet.... So maybe she found a sucker to 
hook that faucet back up.....??



..


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Like they used to.
> I long for the day to come back where you got a faucet (Think Delta 100/400) with 3/8" copper stubs.












Yes, way back in the early 1990's when I was new to plumbing, the Moen Lav faucets had long 3/8" copper supply lines. I think it was the Chateau model- acrylic single handle Moen, nothing fancy but it was a decent lav faucet.

I worked for a company that used Moen with nearly 100% of their faucets and tub valves. So I am very familiar with Moen and I like Moen.

These older faucets pretty much needed to be installed by a plumber or a handy-man who was skilled enough to do the install. Now a days, they are making a lot of faucets so that a child could install them.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> Yes, way back in the early 1990's when I was new to plumbing, the Moen Lav faucets had long 3/8" copper supply lines. I think it was the Chateau model- acrylic single handle Moen, nothing fancy but it was a decent lav faucet.
> 
> I worked for a company that used Moen with nearly 100% of their faucets and tub valves. So I am very familiar with Moen and I like Moen.
> 
> These older faucets pretty much needed to be installed by a plumber or a handy-man who was skilled enough to do the install. Now a days, they are making a lot of faucets so that a child could install them.







It's not a bad thing that they are getting easier to install. I love when a faucet is easy to install. What kills me is that they are all garbage with very few exceptions.






Now that delta and moen both seem to be switching their single handle faucets to use these pos ceramic cartridges with crappy plastic casings that warp and let the plates come apart I have very little hope.


Back in the day we used to install moen 1200 series and mansfield toilets. Some times it would be a delta kitchen faucet with the ball/seats and springs.


I can no longer tell a person stick with moen or delta if you want single handle. The only good faucets now are two handle which take semi-generic 1/2" ceramic cartridges. It's a good cartridge and most of the faucets it goes in have solid brass bodies. Moen makes some goodish two handle cartridges but they usually fail where they connect to the handle. Nylon just isn't quite stiff enough, and when it is it seems to be too brittle.










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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Yes, way back in the early 1990's when I was new to plumbing, the Moen Lav faucets had long 3/8" copper supply lines. I think it was the Chateau model- acrylic single handle Moen, nothing fancy but it was a decent lav faucet.
> 
> I worked for a company that used Moen with nearly 100% of their faucets and tub valves. So I am very familiar with Moen and I like Moen.
> 
> These older faucets pretty much needed to be installed by a plumber or a handy-man who was skilled enough to do the install. Now a days, they are making a lot of faucets so that a child could install them.



I had apprentices that could not bend the hard copper lines to install faucets or even toilet supply lines back in the early 90s..... They were cross-eyed morons who could not get the nut and ferrul to start on the stop.... or they would bend and kink the toilet lines to the point they looked like crap........ it could literally take them half the day fretting on this task...:surprise:

The braided toilet supply lines and 30 inch lav supply lines came out some time back in the early 90s ,,,, it saved me a ton of time and misery trying to train these idiots..... 

I still got a box of the toilet supply washers sitting on a shelf that we never used up... 

simple is better...... and I also like sharkbite fittings :biggrin:


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Master Mark said:


> no expansion tank, pressure about 85psi in that area........
> 
> It blew off because the Delta faucet is basically an expensive piece of shi/ trying to conform to the liberal California lead standards....
> 
> ...


If I absolutely have to cut these factory supply lines I will use either chrome or poly supply's in the stop then use 3/8"x3/8" push in coupling to transition from one to the other,have never had a blowout,but that is in a have to case,otherwise we loop them around and zip tie them


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

sparky said:


> If I absolutely have to cut these factory supply lines I will use either chrome or poly supply's in the stop then use 3/8"x3/8" push in coupling to transition from one to the other,have never had a blowout,but that is in a have to case,otherwise we loop them around and zip tie them



That is a good idea, but I feel that you are still playing with fire either way...

I suppose it would work ok and I suppose I could have done that for the homeowner...... perhaps she bought a new faucet or she found someone else with more experience or nerve than myself ...... I really dont care...... 

I did tell her that this faucet has caused you 45k++ in damages and ruined thanksgiving dinner, so is it really very wise to roll the dice and hope it dont blow apart again?? .I did tell her to get a moen


and the service call was free



..


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## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

Tango said:


> powellmatthew76 said:
> 
> 
> > We remodeled a huge dentist office and the G.C. supplied us with around 22 shark bite stops. His instructions were to replace soldered stops with G.C. supplied sharkbite stops. For whatever reason I have no clue and am patiently waiting for a disaster. Not sure what the hell the guy was thinking but Jesus christ not only are they a time bomb they look tacky as ****.
> ...


I only use them when I run in to the occasional cpvc, and I haven’t had any issues


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