# System pump placement...



## Jklsr55 (Sep 8, 2010)

I am running a commercial job where due to a major goofup on behalf of the engineers my sq footage in the mechanical room was cut in half. I could make up some room piping the main system pumps before the air separator. Most systems pipe the air separator coming out of the boilers and then into the pumps. What issues am I looking at if I tried piping the pumps first?


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Jklsr55 said:


> I am running a commercial job where due to a major goofup on behalf of the engineers my sq footage in the mechanical room was cut in half. I could make up some room piping the main system pumps before the air separator. Most systems pipe the air separator coming out of the boilers and then into the pumps. What issues am I looking at if I tried piping the pumps first?


 Pump(s) are installed AFTER the PONPC and air seprator... get the book " Pumping away "


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

The pump can not pump air.... You best bet is do it like it was intended .... Air separator first....

There an engineer ... Get him to redraw it now that he changed the room size...

Then ask for a change order and bill them extra for the changes


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## knuckles (Dec 16, 2011)

Also the make up water typically ties into the top of the air separator. This connection works best on the suction side of the pump as well as the expansion tank.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

knuckles said:


> Also the make up water typically ties into the top of the air separator. This connection works best on the suction side of the pump as well as the expansion tank.


^^^^ ???

Air vent on top .... Feed on bottom


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## Jklsr55 (Sep 8, 2010)

I am an avid "pumping awayer" and consider the book Pumping Away the biblical go to source for boilers/heating info. I was just running it up the flagpole to see what different opinions I would find. What I wasn't 100% sure of was what problems I would have if I was forced to go that route. I did come up with a solution that will allow me to pipe it correctly.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

knuckles said:


> Also the make up water typically ties into the top of the air separator. This connection works best on the suction side of the pump as well as the expansion tank.


Wtf??? Ya reading the diagram upsidedown???


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Jklsr55 said:


> I am an avid "pumping awayer" and consider the book Pumping Away the biblical go to source for boilers/heating info. I was just running it up the flagpole to see what different opinions I would find. What I wasn't 100% sure of was what problems I would have if I was forced to go that route. I did come up with a solution that will allow me to pipe it correctly.


 Show some pictures... and get the book which it will makes you smarter than most ' furance' engineers.


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## Jklsr55 (Sep 8, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> pump(s) are installed after the ponpc and air seprator... Get the book " pumping away "


ponpc??


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Jklsr55 said:


> ponpc??


 Get the book and you'll know all about PONPC ( point of no pressure change).


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Get the book and you'll know all about PONPC ( point of no pressure change).


Nice little term but however the pump is the point of pressure change


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## knuckles (Dec 16, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> ^^^^ ???
> 
> Air vent on top .... Feed on bottom


 
We must be talking about different air separators...

Your talking about air scoops or maybe the smaller inline separators.

I was thinking a large heating system with something like a B&G air separator.
http://completewatersystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/576.pdf

This model is the one i install most on larger systems. Water flows from top to bottom through the separator. If you tie the make up water in the bottom it will not have the ability to remove the air.

Any way, the separator typically is installed before the pump. But can be anywhere and still function. As long as it is near the source of makeup water.


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