# can you cut me a break on your bill??



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Mark, the money is really gotten tight on the job and we are really running out of money .... so we need to know if you can do us a big favor ..

can cut me and the wife a break on your bill.... ??

then you walk into their new home to start the finish work today and you find out that they spent well over 40k on all black granite tops throughout their kitchen... SS $3000 fridge...ect ect....:laughing:..:blink:

I guess I must be a selfish dirty rotten s.o.b for not feeling their pain
and trying to find a few corners to shave off for them.....

Right now I am thinking of what extras I can heap onto the final bill
that they conned me out of last fall......


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Wow.

Look for change orders; have them sign for this extra and that extra. That will beef up the final payment.

That's the beauty of a proposal that they sign making it a CONTRACT.....hard to wiggle out of that.


----------



## mytxplumber (Jul 28, 2013)

It burns me up to the area I am in the houses are around 4000 sqr ft and up and they will try the same thing here. I don't feel sorry for them I charge a far price and it is the same for everyone. Customers will always try to get away with cutting your price when they can.
One problem is someone has not told plumbers we are in high demand now. New guys start their business and are willing to race to the bottom with the cheapest price. I wish guys would get it together like other service industries and charge accordingly. It is so much to come out for a service call and then I will give you a price for repairs no exceptions.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Sure we can...:thumbup:

We'll just skip installing the faucet, drain, and garbage disposal on that undermount sink in your kitchen granite countertop...:whistling2:

We can skip the gas line to that stove as well...

That will save you a few bux...

I'll just hold on to the parts you already paid for, and when you can spare the dough, I'll come by and put em in....:yes:

No Problem!:thumbup:


----------



## Absaroka Joe (Mar 30, 2013)

Haggling is nothing new and unlike in a Kazakhstan bazarre, you don't have to participate. There is no reason to get annoyed by these customers. I kind of like to observe their methods. Some are good at their craft - especially those with a crooked nose.


----------



## jnaas2 (Dec 6, 2012)

Had one home owner try to pull that line because he hadnt paid his bill, When I went by to collect My money they had found plenty to put in a 160' long concrete drive way to there house


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Well, basically they feel that I am a little peon that just
works for pennies and the fun of it.......

yes we have a contract and its all in writing... they just wanted to see if I would budge on something .... its all a mind game......

I got to drill a hole under their island kitchen sink for the drain and when they come into their new home tomorrow and see my dirty old Milwaukee right angle drill with a 2 inch bit sitting directly on their granite top.....
I think they will get the picture...:yes::yes:.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

we had a guy try to make every sub lower their price on a new house so they could fix up their basement. his wife didnt work and he was a pain in the ass. 3 subs told him where to go and walked. house half finished. i held my price and charged extra for the basement


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Ef 'em.


----------



## Hoosier Plumber (Nov 28, 2013)

We were discussing communication and negotiating the other day. Like others have said there is nothing to really get mad about. 

When someone asks for a break simply share with them what they can cut back on to save money. If or when a person uses certain techniques walk away. 

I like the folks who use the low ball tactic of "I have a guy who said he will charge 50.00." When that happens its time to leave.


----------



## SchmitzPlumbing (May 5, 2014)

my brother's brother in law, had me do an addition for him. i bid it out. when it was done, he said give me a family and cash discount. i said whatever and did it. then i got a bank check from his title company. i was pissed. then he got divorced 2 months later. he needed the discount to be able to afford the place on only his income. never again. ice maker not hooked up yet. i think $1500 is a fair price.:furious:


----------



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I went to look at a old house built back in late 1800's or very early 1900's. Home owner wants to move the toilet upstairs across the room to allow for a stack able laundry to go in there. 

The GC met me there to show me the job. This house had 2x8 floor joist that were butcher to the point I was afraid to stand under it. GC wanted me to remove all the drain and water lines so he can sister new 2x8 joist next to the butcher ones. Since I was there to relocate the toilet and install plumbing for washer upstairs. 

I started to look at the plumbing that someone installed sometime with in the last 20 years. (PVC) had tee's on there backs, fittings in backwards, and reg 90 elbow on horizontal install. Had 1/2 galvinize, 1/2 copper, 1/2 cpvc, 1/2 pex, and compression fittings all over the place in the ceiling. At this point i was like this house needs to be complete re-plumbed to be code compliant. The GC told me to bill the customer directly so I wrote up a invoice to fix all the problems I seen from the basement clear up to the upstairs 2 bathrooms. 

Home owner sends me a email and said They were not budgeting for a whole re-plumb they only thought they would have to pay $300.00-500.00 to move the toilet and install plumbing for the laundry. The also thought the GC can put a 2x6 from wall to wall with out removing the drain system since it works fine. (BTW GC dropped this job as well) I thought about it for a day or 2 before I responded to it. I simply told them I will not be doing the job maybe have luck with someone in there area that has no concern of our state required codes for plumbing and structure. Knowing that you are a building inspector in your area and sad to say I wouldn't want you to inspect my home for any building codes. Since you can't see the 10 code just in the ceiling of your dining room and the other 8 in the basement. 

Good Luck!


----------



## plumber11928 (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm also tired of getting the HO playing lets make a deal at the finale payment. You get a signed contract, they agree. So whats with games. When you go to a restaurant do you argue the bill and say the pasta is only a $ 1.49 for a lb or the steak is only $ 11.50, why are you charging so much. TIRED of being looked down to. This is not a hobby, I have a life to support. Then you have to deal with all the hacks running around with a bucket of tools doing sh!!t for free. I see HO's picking up illegal's hanging around **** Depot to get there work done. Speaking about **** Depot, there selling csst. Now any banana could print a card off the csst company's web site and Poof they are certified csst installer.WTF !!!


----------



## Cajunhiker (Dec 14, 2009)

Yeah, those who live in half million dollar homes with nice cars and swimming pool and nice furniture - trying to keep up with the Jones' - and they trying to get over on the plumbers, electricians, a/c, lawn care guys - it makes me angry. 

Why don't they try to cheat their lawyer, doctor, accountant, dentist, car mechanic, hair stylist, favorite restaurant, etc. 

Especially the customers who try to hire your help for side jobs - that really burns me up. 

My favorite video on the subject, the Vendor Client Relationship http://youtu.be/R2a8TRSgzZY


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

By no means am I putting down any race, creed, nationality down by next statement.

Around here we have a very diverse population. Off the bat I give either a set price, or a "If it goes easy, this much, but it could as much as this. I'll charge you accordingly and fairly." Now that said, I have had to deal with some customers from different religions, different countries, different backgrounds than myself. I've learned customers of certain ethnic backgrounds love to haggle. I always say my price is my price. Some returning (big account) customers I've learned to just up my price by 15-25% just so they feel good about chewing me down 10%. Win win.


----------



## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Nothing better than raising your price in anticipation of haggling and then settling on a price higher than you normally charge. Dang that feels good.


----------



## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

dhal22 said:


> Nothing better than raising your price in anticipation of haggling and then settling on a price higher than you normally charge. Dang that feels good.


It only feels good to you. I used to do the same but now refuse to negotiate even a penny. 100% sewer cleaning so take it with a grain of salt. I can't imagine what you guys deal with


----------



## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Maybe we shouldn't get angry, but I still do. Seems to me that the ones asking for a break are either:

1. Ones that can very well afford it 

or

2. Those who you have already given a break!



On the flip side, I am guilty of being number 1 and number 2 when I purchase services.  It's nothing personal. It's not that I think less of you, and it's not that I cannot afford it. If you are willing to permit me to keep more of my hard-earned money, I would be a fool not to try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 

FWIW - rarely will I walk. If I didn't like you as a service provider, I wouldn't even bother trying to get a discount. I want the best, at the best price I can get it for. 

Hold your prices . . . the customers worth having will pay your rate. :yes:


----------



## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

Hoosier Plumber said:


> We were discussing communication and negotiating the other day. Like others have said there is nothing to really get mad about.
> 
> When someone asks for a break simply share with them what they can cut back on to save money. If or when a person uses certain techniques walk away.
> 
> I like the folks who use the low ball tactic of "I have a guy who said he will charge 50.00." When that happens its time to leave.


I love that one! my response is "Wow great price I'd run with it" I typically end up with the job at my price and they now know not to try that routine in the future.


----------



## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Plumbdog said:


> [/COLOR]
> I love that one! my response is "Wow great price I'd run with it" I typically end up with the job at my price and they now know not to try that routine in the future.


I pretty much run the same way...
Tell em to call me when it leaks or, doesn't work and I'm heading for my next job...

Then I get chased to my van with them trying to stop me from leaving...:laughing:


It sends a couple of very clear messages...

1. I don't care if your plumbing works or not. In order for me to start caring you need to pay me....

2. I'm busy because I'm good and in demand. If you aren't paying me I'm going to someone who is....


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Redwood said:


> I pretty much run the same way...
> Tell em to call me when it leaks or, doesn't work and I'm heading for my next job...
> 
> Then I get chased to my van with them trying to stop me from leaving...:laughing:
> ...











Well said.

Reminds me of one time that I accompanied my mom with her lawyer for a closing. My mom was selling her home. First time for her. The buyer showed up with his attorney. When the buyer's lawyer said something, I can't remember what it was, my mom's lawyer stood up and said, "I've been in business for {30} years in this town. If you won't have this closing here, then I'm leaving." Mom and I looked at each other....... but the other side gave in, mom's lawyer sat down, and we had the closing.

So, Red's approach is right on the money, a true professional is in demand and need not put up with any nonsense.


----------



## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Don't even think about telling me you have somebody that will DO a job cheeper than me on the weekend and if I match there price I can do the job. You better get that imaginary person cause I'm not showing up. 

On a week day I'll joke about if they are that cheap give me there number and I'll keep them busy and make money to boot. Then they usually have me do the work. On the weekend I won't even joke with hagglers.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

What I don't like is when a HO/BO calls three different companies and the one that shows up first gets the gets the job. I've been on both ends. We have a code out here, we all agree that the HO/BO is blacklisted from all of us.


----------



## 760GWS (Mar 16, 2015)

I did a 50 gal Rheem NG draft vent WH today for a repeat customer's rental in a nice part of town. What a headache... traffic, communication lag, & a price discount?

I got to the jobsite to evaluate the leaker: 40gal, wet platform, single car garage full of camping, fishing & surfing gear. Anyway, shot over a quote for $1400 for to code installation, permit extra ([email protected] if she gets it herself). She wanted to save money--under water on the rental, or whatever. So I quoted $950 for basic install with new water connectors and she agreed. 

After working around all the garage mess and flooded platform, I called her to discuss need for dryout and to collect payment. I tap her details into the phone for the charge, then she says, well lets talk about my discount. Wha-huh-huttt? I said, well I just spent $556 in WH & parts, the WH prices increased due to energy efficiency mandate, and I just spent 4 hours coming to the job, checking it out, getting the parts, and doing the work.

... crickets (seriously, dead silence) 

I said, hello? She reluctantly read off the numbers off her MasterCard. Wow! :what:


----------



## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

So, 1400 for an installation to code, but 950 yup install it not to code? Am I reading that right?


----------



## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

That's how it reads to me too. I would think bringing the w/h up to code was supposed to be the basic install that a plumber is supposed to do.


----------



## Plumberdood1 (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm reading it as not to code and losing money.


----------



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

chonkie said:


> That's how it reads to me too. I would think bringing the w/h up to code was supposed to be the basic install that a plumber is supposed to do.




Yea, this all sounds good attempting to bring it all up to code and all but in the real world the lady could just as easily gone to HD or Blowes and had them install a heater...and we all know that They do not do anything but the bare basics.....not even a pan to the floor drain on a slab home...:no:. 

so I suppose you could walk away from the job quoting your code bible the whole time.....and feel good about yourself....

what ever the market will bear in some cases will have to suffice....


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

760GWS said:


> I did a 50 gal Rheem NG draft vent WH today for a repeat customer's rental in a nice part of town. What a headache... traffic, communication lag, & a price discount?
> 
> I got to the jobsite to evaluate the leaker: 40gal, wet platform, single car garage full of camping, fishing & surfing gear. Anyway, shot over a quote for $1400 for to code installation, permit extra ([email protected] if she gets it herself). She wanted to save money--under water on the rental, or whatever. So I quoted $950 for basic install with new water connectors and she agreed.
> 
> ...













Not trying to pile on and beat you up; but here's my take: How do you think she feels when she hears a quote for $1400 only to have it lowered to $950? She is going to think, 'Well he was trying to screw me. He could have quoted $950 from the beginning.'

Think about that.


----------



## 760GWS (Mar 16, 2015)

Another moment of weakness :banghead:

U guys are right. I should have stuck to full price full service.


----------



## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

SchmitzPlumbing said:


> my brother's brother in law, had me do an addition for him. i bid it out. when it was done, he said give me a family and cash discount. i said whatever and did it. then i got a bank check from his title company. i was pissed. then he got divorced 2 months later. he needed the discount to be able to afford the place on only his income. never again. ice maker not hooked up yet. i think $1500 is a fair price.:furious:


First as stated many times, do not back down on your price or principals. That always leads to a downward spiral. Can't blame a consumer for trying to save cash, so its up to contractors to hold the line. Hopefully the hacks will get weeded out.

As far as working for relatives, I find this is the surest way to loose them. NEVER work for a relative unless you do it for free. They tend to think they own you or your required to treat them as special. As you found out.


----------



## Unclog1776 (Feb 5, 2013)

I just bartered on price....











Got this for a sink drain. Needs a lot of work. I put about 200 bucks value to it.


----------



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Unclog1776 said:


> I just bartered on price....
> 
> Got this for a sink drain. Needs a lot of work. I put about 200 bucks value to it.


I'll do that too, also will remove old water heaters and other scrap for $20-$40 depending on difficulty. 

About a month ago we scored big time. I got a rototiller and the guy I work with got a '72 Honda bike 125cc in boxes that was shipped from Japan. I also got a really nice vintage Remington cast iron clay thrower. Not sure what the job was, but HO was throwing everything in a dumpster. All I did was drive 20 min each way, load up and leave.

I have worked for tools, guns and ammo before too. Barter is a good thing.:thumbsup:


----------



## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> Not trying to pile on and beat you up; but here's my take: How do you think she feels when she hears a quote for $1400 only to have it lowered to $950? She is going to think, 'Well he was trying to screw me. He could have quoted $950 from the beginning.'
> 
> Think about that.


That is one way of looking at it, another way is that he was giving her options. Sometimes when we post, we leave out the fine details and the post gets misinterpreted. 

Bringing things up to code is always the right thing to do, but when it's not a matter of safety and the homeowner does not have the funds to cover them, do you leave them without hot water? We all know there are exceptions to the rules . . . historic properties, grandfathered conditions etc. Seems to me the poster made an exception.


----------

