# How to build your own Flexshaft & Drains Deconstructed clas



## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)




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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)




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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)




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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)




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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)




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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

So how do we actually make a flex shaft?




You sure talk about your flexshaft a lot but never actually say how to make it.









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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

skoronesa said:


> So how do we actually make a flex shaft?
> 
> You sure talk about your flexshaft a lot but never actually say how to make it.


It is mentioned in one of my videos on my channel. The Drains Deconstructed class is to give you the end result of all my experiements and testing by teaching you how to make what I use including flexshaft machines. Definitely not free and is done here in california. Personally I don't think it's a class for you and would be a waste of your time. You sound comfortable with what you're doing and probably better off with what the industry offers.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> So how do we actually make a flex shaft?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've said it a few times but as a reminder over here if you use unapproved equipment you are liable to pay them for ALL the costs of new pipes and reno and they'll get a brand new asphalt driveway.


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

Tango said:


> skoronesa said:
> 
> 
> > So how do we actually make a flex shaft?
> ...


Even if you use approved equipment you can be liable seen my boss have to do a dig for another company that got thier stuff stuck in there they were paying for it


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

what's this "approved equipment" you guys are referring to?


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> what's this "approved equipment" you guys are referring to?





factory built, anything engineered and manufactured after it meets all saftey requirements...not home made...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

gear junkie said:


> what's this "approved equipment" you guys are referring to?


It has to be stamped ULC, UPC, CSA etc.. It has a mark of some kind it was tested out by an organisation and approved to be used by the consumer. 

Even then let's say you tried to unclog a line and the manufacturer stated to be used in 2-4" pipe and inadvertently you reached the 4x6" and you got stuck. Tough luck you foot the bill for everything because you didn't use the proper equipment.

Same for bidet seats, most are not approved and if I install one, breaks and floods the place I foot the bill. The insurance told me clearly too bad for you. Even the code states it's a criminal act to install unapproved parts or fixtures.

Home made equipment is at your own risk.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Tango said:


> It has to be stamped ULC, UPC, CSA etc.. It has a mark of some kind it was tested out by an organisation and approved to be used by the consumer.
> 
> Even then let's say you tried to unclog a line and the manufacturer stated to be used in 2-4" pipe and inadvertently you reached the 4x6" and you got stuck. Tough luck you foot the bill for everything because you didn't use the proper equipment.
> 
> ...


 yeesh....glad I don't live in canada. Everything is at your own risk....how many plumbers have reoccurring issues with jetters for instance? Most companies are just part assemblers and the companies making the part have their own certification. Very few companies making drain equipment are using proprietary parts (camera companies excluded). 

In addition your line of thinking seems like it would run companies into trouble. Many companies over state their machine capabilities and by your logic would now be held liable for damages caused by the plumber. As of yet, I've never even heard of, much less seen a single lawsuit of a homeowner vs the tool manufacture. 

According to the ridgid website a K1500 is for 2" to 8" pipe. So what happens when you use it to clear a kitchen sink drain and get stuck and have to dig up the pipe? Are you going to tell the homeowner to send the bill to Ridgid?


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> factory built, anything engineered and manufactured after it meets all saftey requirements...not home made...


....because a drum machine is a safe way to clean drains? The more you learn about this industry the more you realize how much is done because no one complains. If everyone who broke their hand using a drum machine complained to osha, there would be a serious investigation. Look it up....last I checked, I can only find one....one mishap report of a drum machine. Why? Because plumbers just accept this is the way it's done.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> ....because a drum machine is a safe way to clean drains? The more you learn about this industry the more you realize how much is done because no one complains. If everyone who broke their hand using a drum machine complained to osha, there would be a serious investigation. Look it up....last I checked, I can only find one....one mishap report of a drum machine. Why? Because plumbers just accept this is the way it's done.



no not at all, but why dont you call osha and ask them what fines you will get by using or having employees or giving training on home made equipment...
and no if I get hurt by a tool because of bad design you bet ill take legal action...and not just take it as thats the way it is...

yes all tools have risk of injury and all factory engineered tools come with a manual and a ton of lawyer disclaimers on how to use the machine and the possibility of getting hurt..
most injuries are due to user error..not defective design...


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> yeesh....glad I don't live in canada. Everything is at your own risk....how many plumbers have reoccurring issues with jetters for instance? Most companies are just part assemblers and the companies making the part have their own certification. Very few companies making drain equipment are using proprietary parts (camera companies excluded).
> 
> In addition your line of thinking seems like it would run companies into trouble. Many companies over state their machine capabilities and by your logic would now be held liable for damages caused by the plumber. As of yet, I've never even heard of, much less seen a single lawsuit of a homeowner vs the tool manufacture.
> 
> According to the ridgid website a K1500 is for 2" to 8" pipe. So what happens when you use it to clear a kitchen sink drain and get stuck and have to dig up the pipe? Are you going to tell the homeowner to send the bill to Ridgid?



no the home owner sues you as your the user that screwed it up per se ...and are responsible for the proper use of any tool you use...
thats the same idea that a person hit by a drunk driving a ford should sue ford motor company for the car used...and not the user that had control over it..


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Gear Junkie, you are missing the point..your not being bashed, but you are missing the liability you bring onto yourself for using home made tools and training others on home made tools and how to build them....
yeah we all make home made tools, and it depends on what they are to determine the level of liability they bring..
geez, just leaving a hammer on steps and someone falls over it could be a major lawsuit against you while working in a house, liabilities these days are crazy...
go ask your business insurance if they will cover you for using home made drain cleaners as thats where the buck stops...Im willing to bet they wont be too happy with what you tell them..
the reason some tools cost $30,000.00 is because of the liability the company assumes by marketing them, along with the testing and engineering to stand behind them when one blows up...


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

gear junkie said:


> yeesh....glad I don't live in canada. Everything is at your own risk....how many plumbers have reoccurring issues with jetters for instance? Most companies are just part assemblers and the companies making the part have their own certification. Very few companies making drain equipment are using proprietary parts (camera companies excluded).
> 
> In addition your line of thinking seems like it would run companies into trouble. Many companies over state their machine capabilities and by your logic would now be held liable for damages caused by the plumber. As of yet, I've never even heard of, much less seen a single lawsuit of a homeowner vs the tool manufacture.
> 
> According to the ridgid website a K1500 is for 2" to 8" pipe. So what happens when you use it to clear a kitchen sink drain and get stuck and have to dig up the pipe? Are you going to tell the homeowner to send the bill to Ridgid?



Like ShtRnsdownhill said I don't say this to bash you. The intent is to give you information of what happens that you may not be aware of. Then with that information it's up to you to decide what you want do do with that knowledge. I receive a monthly association magazine and they write articles based on the plumbing trade. I think I already wrote about this but here is a recap.

A plumber tried to unclog a pipe, his equipment got stuck and had to excavate to retrieve the equipment. Who do you think the contractor forwarded the bill to, probably to the customer. It went to court and they found out it wasn't the proper tool for the job. The contractor had to pay and probably every fee incurred including the prosecutor's fees.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I don't take this as bashing this at all...good points and liability is extremely important. However this product testing and approved safety stuff is a bit of an illusion the more you dig into it. Seriously....look into it. As far as standing behind their tools when it fails, I've really heard more stories about companies NOT standing behind their products then have. Also alot of this "product testing" is a bit false as well. I really used to believe alot of the same stuff you guys have until I saw certain things and heard certain conversations I realized it's all a bit false.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Tango said:


> A plumber tried to unclog a pipe, his equipment got stuck and had to excavate to retrieve the equipment. Who do you think the contractor forwarded the bill to, probably to the customer. It went to court and they found out it wasn't the proper tool for the job. The contractor had to pay and probably every fee incurred including the prosecutor's fees.


All of my tools are the proper tool for the job. Not being a smarta$$ but seriously....as an OMS I'm one injury away from unemployment and I realize that. I do take safety seriously and saying "hold my beer and watch this" isn't my style. Alot of my homemade tools were made not just because price but because they're safer to operate and you don't a 3rd party certification to tell you that....what's safer to move out of a van....a 175lb drum machine or a 40lb flexshaft machine? It's common sense for alot of this. Some things like electricity do need to be evaluated and tested obviously but that doesn't apply since I'm not making new motors. 

Also I'm saying homemade which can sound offputting to some but I'm being real with my stuff. I made it at my home....homemade. If made by a 3rd party then I'll call it custom fabricated.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

gear junkie said:


> All of my tools are the proper tool for the job. Not being a smarta$$ but seriously....as an OMS I'm one injury away from unemployment and I realize that. I do take safety seriously and saying "hold my beer and watch this" isn't my style. Alot of my homemade tools were made not just because price but because they're safer to operate and you don't a 3rd party certification to tell you that....what's safer to move out of a van....a 175lb drum machine or a 40lb flexshaft machine? It's common sense for alot of this. Some things like electricity do need to be evaluated and tested obviously but that doesn't apply since I'm not making new motors.
> 
> Also I'm saying homemade which can sound offputting to some but I'm being real with my stuff. I made it at my home....homemade. If made by a 3rd party then I'll call it custom fabricated.


I too make my own tools but there are some tool ideas I stay away from because of possible liability. It's too easy to file a lawsuit, all it takes is 150-200$ and a few papers to fill out for small claims court.

You say _"as an OMS I'm one injury away from unemployment and I realize that"._ From this I say I'm one lawsuit away from going bankrupt and losing my licence.

With so many trigger happy people in my area because we have TV shows that show bad contractors on a weekly basis and ways to deal with the justice system people aren't afraid to cry foul.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> All of my tools are the proper tool for the job. Not being a smarta$$ but seriously....as an OMS I'm one injury away from unemployment and I realize that. I do take safety seriously and saying "hold my beer and watch this" isn't my style. Alot of my homemade tools were made not just because price but because they're safer to operate and you don't a 3rd party certification to tell you that....what's safer to move out of a van....a 175lb drum machine or a 40lb flexshaft machine? It's common sense for alot of this. Some things like electricity do need to be evaluated and tested obviously but that doesn't apply since I'm not making new motors.
> 
> Also I'm saying homemade which can sound offputting to some but I'm being real with my stuff. I made it at my home....homemade. If made by a 3rd party then I'll call it custom fabricated.





do you have liability insurance for all the stuff you built at home? when something happens and someone gets hurt and there is a lawsuit , who are you going to turn to for legal advice and financial backing to pay the claim off??? ill bet any legal fabrication shop has lots of insurance to cover the products they build...


in the end its all about the $$$$.. making your own to save it, or suing the balls off some one to make it....you just dont want to be at the end of the line holding the purse strings on any mess....so if you trust what you do and are betting nothing will happen and all will work right then go for it...
this has little todo if a commercially produced tool destroys someones property...and they dont do something about it, if a big enough claim the insurance companies will go after a deep pocketed manufacture with 10s of 100s of millions in liability and leave you a OMS alone...but if you make your own equipment the buck stops with YOU...


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> do you have liability insurance for all the stuff you built at home? when something happens and someone gets hurt and there is a lawsuit , who are you going to turn to for legal advice and financial backing to pay the claim off??? *ill bet any legal fabrication shop has lots of insurance to cover the products they build...* *I looked and around here this is why fabrication shops want prints and plans....so if something breaks, all they have to say is they built according to prints. *
> 
> 
> in the end its all about the $$$$.. making your own to save it, or suing the balls off some one to make it....you just dont want to be at the end of the line holding the purse strings on any mess....so if you trust what you do and are betting nothing will happen and all will work right then go for it...
> *this has little todo if a commercially produced tool destroys someones property...and they dont do something about it*, if a big enough claim the insurance companies will go after a deep pocketed manufacture with 10s of 100s of millions in liability and leave you a OMS alone...but if you make your own equipment the buck stops with YOU...


Can you think of any examples of what you're referring to in regards to drain cleaning tools? What kind of serious damage can happen with drain cleaning equipment where you think someone would really get sued?


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> Can you think of any examples of what you're referring to in regards to drain cleaning tools? What kind of serious damage can happen with drain cleaning equipment where you think someone would really get sued?



if anything electric, possible election from faulty wiring...
getting tangled in cables..fingers, arms, your junk( LOL)...
equipment that spins or works under high pressure is capable of flinging parts and pieces all over, and they can break property or seriously injure some one... nothing happens till something happens....so you play the odds nothing will happen and your home free...and that may be the case..only you know the risk reward for what you do...


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> if anything electric, possible election from faulty wiring...
> getting tangled in cables..fingers, arms, your junk( LOL)...
> equipment that spins or works under high pressure is capable of flinging parts and pieces all over, and they can break property or seriously injure some one... nothing happens till something happens....so you play the odds nothing will happen and your home free...and that may be the case..only you know the risk reward for what you do...


Nope...none of that applies in my case.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> Nope...none of that applies in my case.


 this is what you posted in another thread..
I use homemade flex shaft machine
I use homemade cable machines
I use homemade jetter
I use homemade camera


so you use a cable machine and jetter both home made..so how can you say my above post does not apply???


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## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

As far as potential for damage, the flex shaft has less than traditional methods. I have caused a lot of mayhem blindly sticking cable into pipes. You learn to avoid that with experience, which comes by breaking p-traps and making messes, but I would ALWAYS prefer to have visual confirmation of what I am doing. I have seen sewer lines where the toilet sweep was back to back, then tee to stack, then ran 3' and tee'd AGAIN. I can thread that needle, but I prefer to "cheat" and use every force multiplier I can. Damage to property is inevitable in this game, but how often is it worth the $7000 for a Picote machine? Many of these "homemade" machines are a lot like my "homemade" firearms, buy the factory parts and assemble yourself for +75% off. I can also appreciate what you guys are trying to say to gear... get some legal forms for the people you train lol.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gosaka said:


> As far as potential for damage, the flex shaft has less than traditional methods. I have caused a lot of mayhem blindly sticking cable into pipes. You learn to avoid that with experience, which comes by breaking p-traps and making messes, but I would ALWAYS prefer to have visual confirmation of what I am doing. I have seen sewer lines where the toilet sweep was back to back, then tee to stack, then ran 3' and tee'd AGAIN. I can thread that needle, but I prefer to "cheat" and use every force multiplier I can. Damage to property is inevitable in this game, but how often is it worth the $7000 for a Picote machine? Many of these "homemade" machines are a lot like my "homemade" firearms, buy the factory parts and assemble yourself for +75% off. I can also appreciate what you guys are trying to say to gear... get some legal forms for the people you train lol.



I know several people that build their own firearms. for personal use no problem, but when you let others use them and something happens, you will have big problems...just miss that head spacing and have the breech go boom...along with many other items that can go wrong..
there may be no difference in quality between what a person makes and a gun smith or factory..except the giant liability insurance policy protecting the ones in business for building guns...


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## gosaka (Aug 17, 2019)

I agree 100%, I am also excited for when lawyers will be fully replaced by computers lol.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gosaka said:


> I agree 100%, I am also excited for when lawyers will be fully replaced by computers lol.



LOL..I keep saying and will keep telling it to people..remember the movie terminator..we are headed there..once artificial intelligence is let loose and it figures out we humans are just pests in their way we are done...you say it cant happen..well I got news for you..and time will tell...and no I dont have my foil hat on .....:vs_laugh:


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> this is what you posted in another thread..
> I use homemade flex shaft machine
> I use homemade cable machines
> I use homemade jetter
> ...


All of these components are commercially produced and used in other industries. Just as an an example....my jetter. All the parts and pieces are already out there and rated for the application. For example, I'm NOT using a brass fitting and saying "look it works, no leaks". Not at all. 

I understand the concern you're bringing up but the gun analogy you used is a bit more extreme then I'm doing. Perhaps a better one would be buying an upper and lower receiver(not a block or an 80%) and researching all the parts and components and putting them on the gun yourself. Would you feel safe using that gun? Do you think you need to get the gun certified and tested? 

With the legal forms to cover me....if someone wants to sue, they're going to sue. I see this all the time especially living in Cali. The great thing is what are they going to take? I have no money lol it all goes to taxes lol.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> All of these components are commercially produced and used in other industries. Just as an an example....my jetter. All the parts and pieces are already out there and rated for the application. For example, I'm NOT using a brass fitting and saying "look it works, no leaks". Not at all.
> 
> I understand the concern you're bringing up but the gun analogy you used is a bit more extreme then I'm doing. Perhaps a better one would be buying an upper and lower receiver(not a block or an 80%) and researching all the parts and components and putting them on the gun yourself. Would you feel safe using that gun? Do you think you need to get the gun certified and tested?
> 
> With the legal forms to cover me....if someone wants to sue, they're going to sue. I see this all the time especially living in Cali. The great thing is what are they going to take? I have no money lol it all goes to taxes lol.



you still are missing the point....and again this is not a bash, just a discussion ....
each separate component may be sold on the open market, but once you ASSEMBLE them into a working machine you have changed the dynamics..if you had a factory jetter and bought a factory replacement part to repair , you are fine, to a point, are you certified to repair their equipment? it can get stupid on liabilities, and im on your side of ( if I can do it cheaper and what seems better why not?), but the fact remains if and when it gets to court , you will be bombarded by ALL these examples...
so then you fall back on..well I aint got a pot to piss in so I have nothing to lose...thats good for you , but what about the person hurt or damage done? who pays for that? and in some cases it can become criminal and you will spend time in the clink...:surprise:
as fars as the gun example..no I would not feel safer as even using factory parts they still need to be put together with proper knowledge and tolerances to make it safe, and I want to be able to collect from someone if something goes bad, and johnny joe assembling guns in his basement is not going to have the proper liability insurance, now if he did and gave me an insurance certificate then im good with that...ill let some one else test fire the gun for the first time..LMAO...
you are correct..anyone can sue anyone for anything....if you have proper insurance they will supply a lawyer and pay all the costs..if you dont have insurance all that is on you..
do you have business insurance for your drain cleaning business now? are you properly licensed and in business in your state?
if yes why? if not explain that too...


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

I understand this is a a discussion and that's great but at some point we're both repeating what has already been said so if you don't understand after this then there's no point of continuing the discussion. 

Plumbing distributer sells their flexshaft chains for $120. Trenchless distributers (S1E for example) sells the equivilant and it'll cost 40. Same application, better quality but because a plumbing distributor sells it, it now cost almost 3 times as much.

Jetter manufacturer sells a jetter for 9k. Pressure washer manufacturer sells a better quality pressure washer for 6k with same specs. 

Jetter distubuter sells a jetter hose for 300. A pressure washer company sells the exact same hose and setup to homeowners but it's only $200. 

This is alot of what my class is. Look outside the industry or what is the considered the norm and suddenly you can save a lot of money and do it safer and easier. 


Now until drum machines are banned, then I don't believe any plumber or drain cleaner using them can ever say that safety is a concern of theirs. What sounds more dangerous....using a homemade flexshaft machine weighing less then 25 lbs you can safely carry on the roof or using a drum machine with the cable weaved between the ladder rungs? Many companies out there (at least here in cali) teach employees to clean roof top drains by laying a drum machine against a ladder and weaving the cable in and out of the rungs. 

We're in a business with many job hazards and although they can never be disregard and engineering design won't always reduce the hazard, at some point common sense and personal responsibility has to kick in. Now if I knew something I was teaching was a known safety issue and I blatantly disregarded that because it may hurt the bottom line....that's something else altogether and I would never teach that. If I spent every waking moment concerned about getting sued or getting hurt, then I would stop cleaning drains and go work somewhere else. 

Liability....get it, got it, duly noted and will keep this in mind. Thank you for the reminder.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

.................................


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> .................................





Is that the donkey show video Master Mark sent you?






:biggrin::biggrin:







.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Is that the donkey show video Master Mark sent you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



its beating a dead horse..


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> its beating a dead horse..





Aww gee, you don't say!?!?












.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

skoronesa said:


> Aww gee, you don't say!?!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well he could be sleeping....................


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## Venomthirst (Jun 20, 2018)

It nice to see someone being creative and offering something different than the standard manufacturer training.....

One of the older drain techs was one of the 1st guys to learning what a jetter was.... a company near toronto was looking into buying the 1st roto rooter franchise here in Canada inthe 80's...

The owner got Roto rooter to do training and all sorts of jobs showing how the equipment works and secrets of the trade...

Then they said you know what I'm not interested... got a jetter made by a company here is southern Ontario... if you have a vac truck you'll know what company...

Theres nothing wrong with making your own tools to get the job done... 

drain cleaners have been making thier own tools forever... so grats gear junkie on trying something different if I was about 2000miles closer I'd might think about seeing what you have to offer and help you clean a few building drains and sewers..

You can't get worried about getting a cable stuck once a while in this industry it happens... and if its stuck obviously you did something wrong or.. the pipe is in rough shape and needs to be repaired 

We make our own tools daily.. we still use hand rods periodically too... home made jetter skids different loops and hooks and all different contraptions 

Long story short... Dont let ball busters get to you... and dont let them discourage you from this forum as it has others.. 

Some of us really appreciate your content and I will never put any man down that is afraid to take a different approach and possibly make a difference in the way someone else does thier work innovation


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## Galap5 (Jan 4, 2020)

Cost and location of class

Thanks,
Chuck


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Galap5 said:


> Cost and location of class
> 
> Thanks,
> Chuck



1 million bucks location planet x....
also ..go do a proper intro..chuckie..


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Galap5 said:


> Cost and location of class
> 
> Thanks,
> Chuck







First you must apply by posting an intro here;


https://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/











.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Galap5 said:


> Cost and location of class
> 
> Thanks,
> Chuck


Give me a call to discuss. If you can't find my number then you're not serious about the class.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> Give me a call to discuss. If you can't find my number then you're not serious about the class.



if the jacka$$ cant do a proper intro they should get nothing....


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

If Plumbing Zone was affiliated with Drains Deconstructed, then I'd agree, but not the case here


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

gear junkie said:


> If Plumbing Zone was affiliated with Drains Deconstructed, then I'd agree, but not the case here



then let the guy contact you on facebook or some other forum, if he is going to ask or get info here or be active in any way, whether related to PZ or not he needs an intro....


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