# Copper pipe and/or fittings WAY too tight!



## futz

Anyone else having trouble lately with copper fittings that won't fit the pipe? This has been going on for the last couple years or so. After cleaning pipe & fitting and fluxing you go to put them together and the fitting will go on maybe 1/8" to 1/4" and no further. Then you can't get it back apart again. Tapping on it doesn't work. Twisting doesn't work. Pounding just dents and mangles it. I often smash them off in frustration with my pliers or hammer and start again with another fitting. It's making me crazy!

Different brands of both pipe and fittings don't seem to help. Some are a bit looser and mostly work ok, but most are too tight. They will fit before cleaning/fluxing when the surfaces are still smooth, but they're very tight even then. Cleaning roughs up the surface and then it won't go. Certain types of flux make the problem even worse. I have to stick with paste flux that "lubes" the pipe/fitting a bit.

I ***** and moan at the wholesale, but of course they say, "Nobody else complains about it." :furious::furious::furious: This crap is costing me money. I've been lazy about collecting the mangled fittings so far, but had more trouble today and I've had it up to here with this crap! From now on every bad fitting goes in a bag in the cab. They'll get every one back as defective until someone does something about it.


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## RealLivePlumber

I have had the same problem, slide a couple of fittings together to mock up, and its like they are glued together. WILL NOT come apart. My supply house carries USA made fittings, and cheapo imports in a bag. we ALWAYS spec the USA fittings. 

I return each and every single fitting I have a problem with! I will return them the next time I'm at the counter. maybe someone will pick up on all the little credits issued to my account.

I wonder what the supply house does with them. Are they just canning them? If they are, no one will know.


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## Protech

I too have been having this problem in past few years. Luckily, I don't run copper most of the time. I've been taking a pocket knife and chamfering the inside of the fitting. I also sand the bajesus out of the fitting. It seems to be a problem more with the barnett fittings than any other brand. I think they sell mueller.


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## ASUPERTECH

Try reaming ID, OD of the pipe, + hitting the chamfered edge of the fitting w/ sand cloth as well, + make sure your tubing cutter wheel is new and bearings are rolling smooth. Some times a bad fitting is just a bad fitting but some times we can make a bad situation worse. Not saying you are, but I've been there myself.
You could also do a little QA youself, visit manuf. web sites to find out tollerences, and measure 10-20% of the lot of fittings you've purchased, if they fail return the lot, this larger return will show up on more ind. radar screens, you may be able to contact the manuf. directly to tell them of your findings, You may need a set of micrometers.
I think they've just sped the machines up to make more beens for the been counters, and are producing more S__t myself. Happened to me when I worked in manufacturing all the time until we got enough returns for mngmt. to (in there infinite wisdom) declare that we must pay attention to quality and allow us to turn the cycle times back down to known good.


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## Regulator

I have experienced this on and off. Correct about the cutter wheel as well, I have seen L & K bulge slightly with a dull wheel.


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## futz

ASUPERTECH said:


> Try reaming ID, OD of the pipe, + hitting the chamfered edge of the fitting w/ sand cloth as well,



I ream all pipe ID, but I never have and probably never will ream OD. I don't believe it's necessary. The fittings aren't sticking because of a bump at the cut. They're binding because the fittings are too tight.

I have reamed fittings when they're sticky. Sometimes it helps a bit - sometimes not.

I use this type of reamers. They're great! Fast and easy. They do all sizes, though once you pass 4" or so they're a bit undersized. Reaming 6"? Forget about it. Use a file or a die grinder.

 Reaming all pipe in heating systems makes them purge out much easier too. These tools make it so quick and easy that you just get in the habit of reaming everything














> make sure your tubing cutter wheel is new and bearings are rolling smooth.



My cutter wheels are sharp. I have many cutters, in all sizes. Makes no difference which cutter I cut with. The problem is constant across the board. I've been in this business for a long time and have never had trouble like this regardless of how sharp or dull the wheels were.

Another data point: machined socket joints all fit perfect. It's only the wrot copper fittings that I'm having trouble with. And the problem goes away with 1-1/4" fittings and larger. Most 1" are ok, but some are tight. Biggest problems are with 3/4" 90s, 45s and Tees. Some 1/2" 90s, 45s and Tees are tight too, but not all. Most couplings are fine. Some adapters are tight and some not. 




> I think they've just sped the machines up to make more beens for the been counters, and are producing more S__t myself.


That's what I think it is. Pure sloppiness. :furious: I've tried a bunch of different brands too, from the Korean fittings (not bad at all) to Canadian-made Cello to American-made Lee. Very little difference. Maybe it's partly the pipe? Unknown. We have been getting some Chinese-made copper pipe here, which I'm not thrilled about, but it doesn't seem to be the problem either.


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## futz

RJ Pascone said:


> I wonder what the supply house does with them. Are they just canning them? If they are, no one will know.


I'm pretty sure they just chuck em in the garbage and eat it. Maybe if all plumbers would start making a stink and bringing whole bags of bad fittings back we might get some change...


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## Regulator

futz said:


> Another data point: machined socket joints all fit perfect. It's only the wrot copper fittings that I'm having trouble with. And the problem goes away with 1-1/4" fittings and larger. Most 1" are ok, but some are tight. Biggest problems are with 3/4" 90s and 45s. Some 1/2" 90s and 45s are tight too, but not all. Most couplings are fine. Some adapters are tight and some not.
> 
> That's what I think it is. Pure sloppiness. :furious: I've tried a bunch of different brands too, from the Korean fittings (not bad at all) to Canadian-made Cello to American-made Lee. Very little difference. Maybe it's partly the pipe? Unknown. We have been getting some Chinese-made copper pipe here, which I'm not thrilled about, but it doesn't seem to be the problem either.


I would hazard that if the problem does exist with machined sockets, it is not the tubing outer diameter. 

I agree entirely that quality control is not what it used to be and is getting worse.


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## futz

Regulator said:


> I would hazard that if the problem does exist with machined sockets, it is not the tubing outer diameter.


Umm... You must have meant, "if the problem does not exist", right? If so, I agree.



> I agree entirely that quality control is not what it used to be and is getting worse.


Just when you think materials can't possibly get worse, they do!  Low end mechanical pop-ups, for example... The only cheapy that's any good at all (that I know of) is the Waltec 33W540. The rest are all crap, and getting crappier all the time.

Good thing I use a lot of Delta and Moen, which come with the #1 and #2 best pop-ups available, in that order. Even their 50/50 PO's aren't half bad (pun intended). All IMHO, of course.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Haven't bought copper fittings in years, been sitting on 1000's of them for quite some time but I need to do some swaps and bring some of my counts up on fittings I'm tired of dumping buckets to find them.


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## futz

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> Haven't bought copper fittings in years, been sitting on 1000's of them for quite some time but I need to do some swaps and bring some of my counts up on fittings I'm tired of dumping buckets to find them.


Ya, buckets do suck. But I keep 1" and up in buckets (separated by size), since I don't use all that many larger fittings these days.

For 1/2" and 3/4" fittings (PEX and/or other fittings too), have a look at these. You obviously won't have a Canadian Tire nearby, but they'll be available somewhere. They're GREAT for small fittings. Keeps them nicely organized. Makes it easy to bring ALL your fittings into the job. Cuts down on runs to the truck.

They won't take a huge amount of abuse, but they last pretty well. I have two that hold all my PEX fittings. Enough for a couple houses.


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## Protech

I used those bins when I ran out of a van.


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## Regulator

futz said:


> Umm... You must have meant, "if the problem does not exist", right? If so, I agree.


Yes. Thanks for the correction. My typing still sucks. :laughing:


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