# Should we have a home inspectors thread?



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

FFS 

I just got an email copy of an inspection report from a customer and there are multiple issues with his report. I'm tired of these idiots. He did find some legit issues, but anyone could have found them. The house is only 2 years old btw.

1 : leak at p-trap under crawl space .... probably a loose shower drain or the p-trap dropped out of the gasket because it isn't supported. Easy.

2 : Loose toilet. Probably a broken closet flange. Again there's a crawlspace, so this is no big issue. It might even just be a loose bolt.

3 : Bathtub drain is slow. Undoubtedly the stopper is full of hair because of the age of the house.

4: Disposal flange shows signs of corrosion at under sink area. (note he did not catch the fact that the dishwasher drain does not drain through an airgap.)

5: Unable to locate relief piping and drain pan termination for water heater. He made a point to note that the tank was strapped in a secure manner, and cited code requirements for seismic events. 
He did not catch the fact that there are no provisions for thermal expansion, nor the fact that the ball valve is screwed directly onto the nipple and crimp pex directly to the ball valve. Same thing on the hot side except no ball valve. (Union required by code, and no plastic piping within 18" of the heater anyone?)

I can see in the picture they have a relief pipe going into the wall, so he just didn't look hard enough to find where it exits.

This aside from all of the notes where he says things like ( objects under cabinet prevented a full inspection of the condition of the cabinet back and bottom)

Why don't you have them move it when you get there so you can look at it? They are trying to sell their house, they would be happy to help you with whatever you need i'm sure. You can do other things while they clear them out. 

Useless twits.

/rant


----------



## The Dane (Feb 19, 2015)

Here is the 18" code in the MN casebook which is basically UPC so it is likely the same code number but I don't have my UPC at home.









Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Alan said:


> Useless twits.
> 
> /rant


Ha! you are not alone. I think it may be worse here. Up here 34$ is all you need to be an inspector.

People just don't realize they are only knowledgeable a little bit. It would be impossible for me to inspect electricity up to the code. I would catch a lot but not all. You have to accept the fact they will never know everything.

On the other hand where inspectors are real stupid or work for a realtor and turn a blind eye they deserve fraud charges and jail time. Stupid ones should be banned.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Alan said:


> 5: Unable to locate relief piping and drain pan termination for water heater. He made a point to note that the tank was strapped in a secure manner, and cited code requirements for seismic events.
> He did not catch the fact that there are no provisions for thermal expansion, nor the fact that the ball valve is screwed directly onto the nipple and crimp pex directly to the ball valve. Same thing on the hot side except no ball valve. (Union required by code, and no plastic piping within 18" of the heater anyone?)


Interesting, we can pipe pex directly to the water heater and I've never seen an expansion tank for residential purposes. seismic requirements are non existent.


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> People just don't realize they are only knowledgeable a little bit.


You mean in the sense that they have seen a house before and even lived in one?
:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

I found it interesting on the section about fire sprinkler systems, he didn't seem to know anything about it so he recommended consulting with a fire sprinkler contractor.


When I got there I looked at the disposal even though it wasn't one of the items he marked as needing immediate repair, and he totally missed the fact that there are no screws in the flange. The thing is literally just hanging from the sink drain hole.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I would like to see the reaction of a buyer's reaction when the realtor says. By the way to inspect this house properly you will need a plumbing contractor, an electrical contractor, a foundation contractor, general contractor etc. All that for approximately 3000$. If the report is not so good you will have to repeat that process on the next one.

BUT I have someone who can do it all, it'll cost 300$ and every house he inspect will pass with flying colors. Guaranteed!


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Tango said:


> I would like to see the reaction of a buyer's reaction when the realtor says. By the way to inspect this house properly you will need a plumbing contractor, an electrical contractor, a foundation contractor, general contractor etc. All that for approximately 3000$. If the report is not so good you will have to repeat that process on the next one.


I mean I guess it all depends on how in depth they want it to be. I could do it the way he does it for 50 bucks on the plumbing side. I could probably run through this house with a camera in about 20 minutes. No work, no touch, just look.

By the way I think I did find the relief valve piping exiting the building. It was a 1/2" copper 90. 

No idea on the pan drain, she didn't want me to do anything with that.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I did an inspection last winter from the insurance report the guy had. I don't know if it was the insurance who wrote a few things but anyway it took over an hour and a half just to see most of the hack in the basement and it took an hour to write all of it. No way would I charge 50$ for example. I charged in excess of 300$ for that. I did get the job and made a good profit. 

I'm going to do a good job inspecting and charge appropriately because you never know what kind of lash back you are going to get. To hell with cheap a$$es I get so many calls for estimates it gets on my nerves that people are being so freaking cheap. They tell me they want to fix their hack plumbing but want a free estimate and hack prices. Why don't you just call a hack in the first place instead of me???

I posted the pictures in"little house of horrors" or something like that.


----------



## hroark2112 (Apr 16, 2011)

If you look at the PEX manufacturers instructions, most of them say that PEX is not to be connected directly to a water heater. Most codes say that the manufacturers instructions must be followed. Even if the code does not specifically state it, the manufacturer does, and that does make it code.


I haven't read all the PEX manufacturers installation instructions, but the ones I have read state it pretty clearly.


----------



## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Good topic Alan. As bad as inspections seem to us to a totaly iggnorant homeowner I highly recomend an inspection . Im supprised at a 2 year old home (owner built) . to be built this out of code. presumably a liscened contractor built this house in which case how worthwhile is contractor? Inspector caught several items. 1/2 inch t and p you think? Open it up where does the water come out? if you only think you found it cant expect an inspector to do much better. Everyone is looking to make a sale go through and the heck with the buyer. Buyer Beware!


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

if you want to fix the home inspector problem to have them do the right job, hold them liable for anything they miss and are blatant violations or issues. this way you will get rid of the fly by night idiots...make them have insurance that will pay for any issues .....but then again, how many plumbing inspectors are licensed plumbers??? not many in my area..its amazing what they are worried about, my last inspection the inspector was more worried if every room had smoke and CO detectors than the piping..but I guess thats good for me....no changes needed..lol


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

jeffreyplumber said:


> 1/2 inch t and p you think? Open it up where does the water come out? if you only think you found it cant expect an inspector to do much better.


I should have clarified that : I think I found it as I was walking around the house with my tools. That was something she didn't want me to look into. It's a 1/2" pipe open to air and it's on the outside of the room the water heater is in. Safe bet probably, but again, she didn't want me looking into that because he didn't list it as something that needs immediate attention.

Personally I'd be asking questions to the person who plumbed the home. Why do these violations exist in my 2 year old home. Why were they not caught by the building inspector or did you even get a permit for the plumbing?

I also forgot to mention that I saw a flat vent under the floor for the toilet. At least it came off the 'toilet drain at a 45* angle but there was a street fitting in it and it ran flat to the nearest wall.


----------



## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

I love home inspections, these “inspectors” call out the dumbest sh*t and I get paid to fix it.


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

Fatpat said:


> I love home inspections, these “inspectors” call out the dumbest sh*t and I get paid to fix it.


You're not wrong, but I just believe that there is little to no value in their service.

There's probably one guy on everybody's street who is capable of the same thing for a case of beer.


----------



## Fatpat (Nov 1, 2015)

Alan said:


> Fatpat said:
> 
> 
> > I love home inspections, these “inspectors” call out the dumbest sh*t and I get paid to fix it.
> ...



If I tell a homeowner they they need a certain repair, they think I’m selling something.

If some derelict inspector tells them the same thing plus 20 other small repairs, his word is gospel haha


Good for me


----------



## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Alan said:


> You're not wrong, but *I just believe that there is little to no value in their service.*
> 
> There's probably one guy on everybody's street who is capable of the same thing for a case of beer.






























Absolutely 100% correct. Those home 'inspectors' give a 20 page report with 18 pages of disclaimers. They cover their rearends better than a corrupt lawyer.


----------



## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

In CA. all you need is a business card, with your name on it,
I had one called to inspect a 2" copper water main in a condo assoc.
that I had a couple of my guys working on one day, a home owner 
that lived next to where the hole was that they were working in,
the h/o thought that a plumbing repair had to be inspected


----------



## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Alan said:


> You're not wrong, but I just believe that there is little to no value in their service.
> 
> There's probably one guy on everybody's street who is capable of the same thing for a case of beer.


there is a value in what they do, as the person buying the house usually knows less than them and they give a report that now makes the trades money to fix all the obvious issues they see, then you can find the real issues and tell the seller and buyer the inspector missed, they call the inspector back and since they know less than you, they agree that needs to be repaired too, use it for your gain as you are not paying the home inspector but he will sell your repairs for you....just know how to work it for your advantage....like this..hey mr home seller/ home buyer, you need to call the home inspector back as he missed this very important issue as it was hard to see( or some other bull $hit excuse so the inspector doesnt look like an idiot, as he is making you money) the inspector comes back and says " oh yes that needs to be repaired"..mo money mo money in your pocket...so the value is for us, not the home seller/buyer..


----------



## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

Pretty Bad work all the way around Plumber builder building dept home inspector.
BTW What was problem with the "flat vent" you mean literaly flat not having any fall? Using a street 45 ? Ive shot down many a joist bay in exactly this way. been told its permisable where structural conditions require it. Im in Ca as well and like to know if Im doing it illegal


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

jeffreyplumber said:


> BTW What was problem with the "flat vent" you mean literaly flat not having any fall? Using a street 45 ? Ive shot down many a joist bay in exactly this way. been told its permisable where structural conditions require it. Im in Ca as well and like to know if Im doing it illegal


You're right about the structural conditions rule, but I will say this : 

In 11 years of doing various custom homes, i've only ever had ONE situation where I couldn't hit the wall before going to the fixture and that was because this guy built a 20x20 bathroom with a tub out in the middle of nowhere without any walls.

The particular installation in question looked more to me like somebody just really didn't give a hoot. There was a side wall 15" away and they probably could have hit it by swinging the vent fitting on a 45* to that wall instead of half assing it the way they did.


I feel like that structural condition rule is there for things like windows. Not because you either hung the pipe in the wrong spot or turned the fitting the wrong way. Kitchen sinks often have to have their vent below the flood rim because the window is only a couple of inches above the counter.

Code section is 905.3


----------



## jeffreyplumber (Dec 7, 2009)

I agree with that the structural condition can often be avoided by a good layout. Ive had inspector tell me why didnt I bring waste up on side of window I can go up to 5 foot on a 2 inch trap cant win with some inspectors. Thats good only flat venting once. Cant even think how many time Ive done it floor drains, tubs showers , and w/c 
Sounds like bad work and home inspector for sure. But if I was inspecting this place I dont think Id mention a flat vent like you describe . Id mention airgap and pex to the heater.


----------



## Alan (Jun 18, 2008)

jeffreyplumber said:


> I agree with that the structural condition can often be avoided by a good layout. Ive had inspector tell me why didnt I bring waste up on side of window I can go up to 5 foot on a 2 inch trap cant win with some inspectors. Thats good only flat venting once. Cant even think how many time Ive done it floor drains, tubs showers , and w/c
> Sounds like bad work and home inspector for sure. But if I was inspecting this place I dont think Id mention a flat vent like you describe . Id mention airgap and pex to the heater.


Yeah I didn't mention anything about that, but the airgap IMO is not that big of a deal either, i'm just surprised he missed it. 

When I was plumbing in Oregon we were allowed to bring the drain hose up against the bottom of the countertop and that was sufficient, and hers is installed in that way. I think I prefer that as to having my dishwasher dump water on top of my counter if the stupid thing gets plugged up.


----------



## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Alan said:


> Yeah I didn't mention anything about that, but the airgap IMO is not that big of a deal either, i'm just surprised he missed it.
> 
> When I was plumbing in Oregon we were allowed to bring the drain hose up against the bottom of the countertop and that was sufficient, and hers is installed in that way. I think I prefer that as to having my dishwasher dump water on top of my counter if the stupid thing gets plugged up.


That's how our code reads, the drain as high as possible(no airgap). 99% are just hanging real low under the sink. It's funny how the man of the house plunges the sink real had and sees water flooding out of his dishwasher.

An air gap is non sense in my opinion, having a pump all that water in the cabinet.


----------

