# not a choice anymore



## retired rooter (Dec 31, 2008)

I was just reading stuff on the net and ran across this. Is this common in other areas? When I bought my home in the early 80s, they advised me to hook up to the sewer in my front yard,I declined saving alot on sewer taxes.Some day in the future I might not have a choice. http://www.mydesert.com/article/201...septic-tank-muddle?odyssey=mod_sectionstories


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Think we're probably ok here, ... for the time being at least. Do you remember last year (I think it was last year?) when some knucklehead proposed that any one in Jefferson county not connected to the sewer should have to pay sewer rates anyway? That went over like a led zeppelin. Of course this is Alabama and not Kalifornia. 

Those people are hopelessly, genetically, out of their minds out there. Even though I would stand to profit from such a law, I would fight it tooth and nail. I think it is absolutely outrageous that a local or any government can force a home owner to abandon a perfectly good septic system and be forced against their will to hook up to a sewer system. If you're septic system is not operating properly so that sewage is running out on the ground then that's another story but if it's working fine then leave it the hell alone. Oh yeah, and the "justification" that it's "for the common good" and that they are protecting the ground water is utterly and completely ignorant and ridiculous. Where do they think the effluent from the septic system via the field line system has been going for hundreds of years. No one drinks ground water. If you are on city water you don't get a drop that hasn't been through the filter plant. If you are on well water you don't drink a drop before it passes through your filter system. If you are drinking/bathing in unfiltered well water then you're not very smart and although I do not believe in evolution I would have to say that you are setting yourself up for "natural deselection". 

Septic systems have been a reliable and reasonable means of dealing with waste water for a very long time. This is just another example of government sticking their d**k where it doesn't belong.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

In Tucson AZ once your leech fields failed if you could you didn't have a choice but to tap into the sewer.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

It has happened in my area, but the residents worked with municipal authorities and appealed to the state to provide assistance to cover the costs. The assistance was approved, with a little media influence, but the job got done with minimal cost to the property owners.
It was easier to get funding when they asked for it instead of demanding it.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Caduceus said:


> It has happened in my area, but the residents worked with municipal authorities and appealed to the state to provide assistance to cover the costs. The assistance was approved, with a little media influence, but the job got done with minimal cost to the property owners.
> It was easier to get funding when they asked for it instead of demanding it.


That's even worse!!! Your city passed an ordinance requiring people to do this and rather than standing up and saying "this is wrong" and fighting it, the residents in your city cried to the state until the state took money from citizens in other cities within your state to pay for it. 

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!


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## revenge (Jun 30, 2011)

They charge you here to if thers a tap and you on septic they charge for sewer


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

They've been doing that here for years.

As the city sanitary and water system expands into previously rural areas, homeowners are required to hook to the system at their own cost.

I am doing a new home in a couple months that is being built on an existing property. The old house is being bull dozed.

Since it is in an area that will have city services within the next couple years, I've been asked to plumb it both ways - with a suspended drain hooked to the septic system with sewage pump for the under slab plumbing AND a full underground and building sewer stubbed to where the city lateral will end up.

I haven't quite worked out the logistics in my head on this one yet but at least these people are planning ahead.

The last I remember they had been allowing home owners 18 months to make the transition but that may be less now.

When you build a new house within the city you pay huge fees and part of that is for the site servicing. You also pay a contractor to make the required hook ups. I don't see why it should be any different for someone in previously unserviced areas. It's not like it's a secret and the sewer just shows up one day. Anyone that owns, is building or buying an unserviced property knows if it's coming their way at some point.

Although it is a hardship for many, how else do you work it out? Have all the other tax payers pay for it? Maybe, but I find that solution to just about everything distasteful.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Here if there is city sewer and water available it is mandatory to tie in

This does not make to much sense. If a certain area is on a well and field bed them that would be less for the city to treat

Currently here the city is constantly complaining that the sewage treatment plant Is under sized but the keep forcing home owners to tie in

Sent from my portable office....yes I am at work


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

smellslike$tome said:


> That's even worse!!! Your city passed an ordinance requiring people to do this and rather than standing up and saying "this is wrong" and fighting it, the residents in your city cried to the state until the state took money from citizens in other cities within your state to pay for it.
> 
> Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!


You beat me to it O Smelly One. 

That is such a typical move by a "We Own You" government. The schmos that won the adult version of a student council election really pulled a fast one.

So let me get this straight...
Citizens that have faithfully paid for municipal sewage treatment (along with countless other things via their taxes), had to pay for the cry babies to get on the system!?!?!? :furious: :laughing: :furious: :laughing: :furious: :laughing: :furious:

Not to mention the folks in rural areas that will always be on a septic system had to help pay for the city's new rule. :furious::furious::furious:

And to make it even better, the city that made them switch over, will now profit from the unfunded mandate by charging the newbies for sewage treatment. Everybody else pays for the investment and the government profits by charging for the service. :laughing:

Well don't that just beat all.


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## drs (Jun 17, 2011)

Here by me, the DPW said OUTRIGHT that if you have a Sewer hook up that THEY own YOUR LAND. This happen to me recently on a job. I had to pick from a "List" of "Approved Contractors" to repair a broken sewer line on a Customers private property. My Customer's attorney has been in contact with me and to top it all off, They claim to own the sewer line that my Customer hooked up into, paid for with their own money. IF THIS IS TRUE, if this is YOUR PIPE< YOU FIX IT. They said we are not responsible for proiblems with the pipe, we are responsible for the pipe when there are no problems.

I just let them know that be glad that this did not happen on my property and have them even remotely think they own my property when I would be going to jail if I did not pay my Property Taxes and not them.

Sewer Systems take alot of money and customers away from the plumbing industry BUT THERE IS A PLACE FOR THEM.

JMHT


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## drs (Jun 17, 2011)

Another thing: LAWYERS NOT REPRESENTING YOU MAKE LAWS TAXING YOUR MONEY TO TAKE FROM YOU TO CONTROL YOU .

STP's are not "ECO FRIENDLY". If they where, the County would have been bottled the water and sold it. If ANYBODY thinks STP are "ECO FRIENDLY" ask them to drink from one. They won't.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

smellslike$tome said:


> That's even worse!!! Your city passed an ordinance requiring people to do this and rather than standing up and saying "this is wrong" and fighting it, the residents in your city cried to the state until the state took money from citizens in other cities within your state to pay for it.
> 
> Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!


Well I suppose that if the shoe were on the other foot, you would take assistance as opposed to having the whole bill taken from your own wallet. As communities grow and we develop as an advancing society, sometimes we have to change. "To change with change is to remain changeless." It costs money to install sewer systems, treat the sewage, maintain the lines...You see where I'm going with this? Now, I stated that they worked with municipal authorities, not "cried to the state", but maybe your perception of working and crying are the same. Government also exists to support its' communities and I'm sure that more than one person in this forum has received Unemployment Benefits as well as having their streets plowed or paved. That's what the money is there for. 
So, there is nothing wrong,wrong, wrong about a group of people working together to improve where they live.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> You beat me to it O Smelly One.
> 
> That is such a typical move by a "We Own You" government. The schmos that won the adult version of a student council election really pulled a fast one.
> 
> ...


I don't understand where the "crybaby" attitude is coming from. Those people also pay state taxes and asked for "assistance" to "help' with the cost. There is an attention deficit problem in the forum apparently. Also, cities don't "profit". Do you live in a city? Does it profit? Are they raking in obscene amounts of cash and driving fancy sports cars? Well you should complain to your city managers for profiting....but that would make you a crybaby...nevermind then. You can also take a few excerpts from my response above, and apply it here too. I wonder if you pay more on trash day if you have more garbage than you neighbors or do they have to pay that for you? C'mon. As professionals we should be looking at these improvements as benefits instead of complaining about them. 
And if you're so worried about where your tax dollars are going, find some junkie on disability for his addiction and punch him in the face. That's a true waste of tax dollars.


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## drs (Jun 17, 2011)

Since you seem to enjoy high taxes and taxes used to fund or pay off big supporters,

You PM me and I will tell you to send a 10 g property tax check to. 

BTW : Last 2 years I had to dig myself out and plow my own roadway. The same roadway that my Property Taxes pay to plow. FUNNY how the town Super 's neighborhood was plowed first and even was salted.

Sewers have taken alot of work from the Plumber Industry and has taken money and food out of their families mouths.

My taxes go to free cell phones to thoes on a goverment program. Why should I have to pay for Cell phones for people who are on them? Why should I have to pay to feed somebody who is grossly overweight? 

There is no goverment program I can benifit from BECAUSE THEY COLLECT THE TAXES AT THE POINT OF A GUN. 

High Taxes only Benifit the people who get something for free. Steel from me to give to somebody sitting home.

High Taxes takes money out of my business so I can't buy new Equipment or employ somebody . 

Taxes are spent by people who do not find value in them. Have you ever saw a Congressman Complain about the GAS PRICES ? No but I am sure that I am being TAXED to DEATH to pay for a Goverment Program too give GAS to somebody on another Goverment program. Funny thoes who are on Goverment programs NEVER have to take a DRUG Test Like me or get kicked off. ME, If I do not pay my TAXES, I am in jail.

Taxes go to Sewers and Sewer TAXES always go UP and never down. Ever wonder why?? Well most SewerTAXES go into the GENERAL FUND and NOT a Sewer Tax Fund.

Taxes are just another way to CONTROL who produce and Keep who are on them with HAND OUTS that I do not qualify.

Read your US Constitution, Hell Congress does not follow it.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Caduceus said:


> 1.Well I suppose that if the shoe were on the other foot, you would take assistance as opposed to having the whole bill taken from your own wallet. As communities grow and we develop as an advancing society, sometimes we have to change.2. "To change with change is to remain changeless." 3.It costs money to install sewer systems, treat the sewage, maintain the lines...You see where I'm going with this? 4.Now, I stated that they worked with municipal authorities, not "cried to the state", but maybe your perception of working and crying are the same.5. Government also exists to support its' communities and 6.I'm sure that more than one person in this forum has received Unemployment Benefits 7.as well as having their streets plowed or paved. 8.That's what the money is there for.
> 9.So, there is nothing wrong,wrong, wrong about a group of people working together to improve where they live.
> 
> 1.Yeah I see your point. If I have to spend money I don't have or don't want to spend then I should just petition the government until they pony up the cash. Let's see my mortgage is too much, gimme some money. I don't have a cell phone, gimme a free one. I got laid off gimme a 99 week paid vacation. My original point was that the government has absolutely no right to require people to abandon their properly working septic systems and connect to the sewer system.
> ...


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

drs said:


> Since you seem to enjoy high taxes and taxes used to fund or pay off big supporters,
> 
> You PM me and I will tell you to send a 10 g property tax check to.
> 
> ...


Shallow and sad. Sorry that you are so misinformed. You might see a sunnier side of society and be able to effect more change if the "poor me" propaganda didn't already poison your mind. It's amazing how everything previously stated is twisted to suit a personal gripe and the fact still remains that a law required change and improvements and still a crying game about 'poor me'. 
I get it. I'm a tax payer. We all pay taxes. Do you think that you are qualified to determine where the money goes? Isn't this America? You can move if you don't like your plowing situation. You can vote for new leaders. You know so much about government spending, hell, you should run for office. Then you can screw somebody else and always be snow free.
Weak. Your so busy pissin' on somebody else's parade, you don't realize your own shoes are wet.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

smellslike$tome said:


> Caduceus said:
> 
> 
> > 1.Well I suppose that if the shoe were on the other foot, you would take assistance as opposed to having the whole bill taken from your own wallet. As communities grow and we develop as an advancing society, sometimes we have to change.2. "To change with change is to remain changeless." 3.It costs money to install sewer systems, treat the sewage, maintain the lines...You see where I'm going with this? 4.Now, I stated that they worked with municipal authorities, not "cried to the state", but maybe your perception of working and crying are the same.5. Government also exists to support its' communities and 6.I'm sure that more than one person in this forum has received Unemployment Benefits 7.as well as having their streets plowed or paved. 8.That's what the money is there for.
> ...


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Caduceus said:


> I'm a Republican-Constitutionalist. You have no idea what you are talking about. You can't even understand a self explanitory proverb that my 10 year old daughter does.
> Oh...and 'ditto' my last post to this post as special little gift. My fingers are tired and I have to volunteer at the "Poor Me Crisis Center". It's "I'm disillusioned" night and I have a feeling that you will be there.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Caduceus said:


> I'm a Republican-Constitutionalist. You have no idea what you are talking about. You can't even understand a self explanitory proverb that my 10 year old daughter does.
> Oh...and 'ditto' my last post to this post as special little gift. My fingers are tired and I have to volunteer at the "Poor Me Crisis Center". It's "I'm disillusioned" night and I have a feeling that you will be there.


Yeah I understand what it's supposed to mean, I just think it's a load of horse sh!t.

You just keep on "living in the moment" and someone will be more than happy to provide you with all the "change" in the world. If you ever wake up you'll discover it's not exactly what you thought it was going to be.

I'm not afraid of change, I change all the time, but not all change is good change. I don't want the government deciding for me what changes I shall undertake.

Don't p!ss down my back and tell me it's raining.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

What...that's it? That was your mind-blowing response? A bunch of laughing smiley faces because of my political beliefs. Wow. I look forward to more of your posts and responses. I can show my kids how over-inflated egos respond to defeat. 
Now, let's get on to some "Professionals Only" forum talk. You can still attend, even though it's for professionals. I'll give you Special-Super-Secret permission.:thumbsup:


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

smellslike$tome said:


> Yeah I understand what it's supposed to mean, I just think it's a load of horse sh!t.
> 
> You just keep on "living in the moment" and someone will be more than happy to provide you with all the "change" in the world. If you ever wake up you'll discover it's not exactly what you thought it was going to be.
> 
> ...


So, we can surmise from your statement that you don't respect any plumbing codes. Really, that Big-ol' bad guv'mint ain't gonna tell you what to do. Nope! Oh, you failed an inspection? But now you can't get paid. But the guvmint says that it has to be to code and you didn't do it there way. Oopsie, guess we gotta get some sucka that follows the guvmints rules to do tha plumin'
Guess that's not you.
Hypocrite.:laughing:


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

Look at the time and energy (as well as emotion) absolutely wasted on this thread. Wasted! I'm not going to get sucked into this little game. Couldn't it be more productive to help others instead of a tit-for-tat banter over who is right or wrong? I'll take the higher road and call a truce..for now...and let's get on to more important plumbing matters.
It's just a shame that when people work together to solve a common problem, that it could be viewed by selfish people as a personal violation on their rights, when, in fact, they could also benefit from the results of the teamwork. Rarely do you see these things and it's looked upon as a bad thing. Shame.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Caduceus said:


> ...There is an attention deficit problem in the forum apparently....


It would be a gross error to interpret my disagreement with your comments as an inability to focus on or keep track of your statements. I believe this was a travesty of ethics and tantamount to theft.

That does not mean I do not understand what your wrote. :no:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

This is great. I was just reading in a book about personalities how people respond to certain challenges. Absolutley amazing to see it play out for me. Keep it up Caduceus. Questioning the intelligence of person you disagree with, classic, just classic. Next you'll be pointing out spelling and grammar errors.


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## MarkToo (Dec 17, 2011)

Caduceus said:


> over-inflated ego:thumbsup:


Hey Pot. It's me Kettle.




p.s. didn't mean to hit "Thanks" on your post. I was laughing so hard my hand was shaking


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

plbgbiz said:


> It would be a gross error to interpret my disagreement with your comments as an inability to focus on or keep track of your statements. I believe this was a travesty of ethics and tantamount to theft.
> 
> That does not mean I do not understand what your wrote. :no:


It is NOT a gross error nor a misinterpretation of your disagreement if the words that you chose were intentional and , by design, manipulative in an attempt to create an end result that would influence others to believe that your perversion of my original statement was , in fact, what I said...which it wasn't. So, the travesty of ethics and theft lie upon the man who twists the words of others to suit his own desires.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

MarkToo said:


> Hey Pot. It's me Kettle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some people have a difficult time distinguishing the difference between a person who has a strong will, leadership abilities and confidence from a person with such an over inflated ego that they will find fault in others, and even insult them, in order to keep the pressure high and their ego even higher. We all have to have ego to do what we do, we just don't have to be s to others to get the job done.
I measure myself by my successes AND my failures. Sometimes another person can determine what the differences are. Just don't feed me crap, tell me I'm wrong or try to beat me down because you need to feel better about yourself. Nobody likes it, I don't either.


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## Caduceus (Mar 1, 2012)

Indie said:


> This is great. I was just reading in a book about personalities how people respond to certain challenges. Absolutley amazing to see it play out for me. Keep it up Caduceus. Questioning the intelligence of person you disagree with, classic, just classic. Next you'll be pointing out spelling and grammar errors.


 You meant to say "people"..not "person". Plural. 
Isn't profiling people fun?


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Caduceus said:


> Look at the time and energy (as well as emotion) absolutely wasted on this thread. Wasted!....


Mr. C.

I agree with you that this thread has become a waste of time. But I am confident we will not agree on why. Maybe someday we can have a discussion or even a "spirited" debate without you feeling the need to form each of your responses into a recusal or personal insult.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Caduceus said:


> You meant to say "people"..not "person". Plural.
> Isn't profiling people fun?


That was easy. Hmmm strange things here.


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