# Gas Sniffer



## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Any recommendations for a digital combustible gas sniffer that reads in PPM?


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Bacharach hands down. Take your pick they all work. $300-700 and they work ✌


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## Pipewrench78 (Dec 21, 2021)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> Bacharach hands down. Take your pick they all work. $300-700 and they work ✌


 Agreed. I use the Bacharach Leakator 10.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Pipewrench78 said:


> Agreed. I use the Bacharach Leakator 10.



That's what I use but he wants something that reads in PPM.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Tommy plumber said:


> That's what I use but he wants something that reads in PPM.


It doesn’t display ppm but it reads in ppm


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

say youre standing under a ceiling hung gas heater. whats the acceptable PPM as it is burning, inside, standing under it.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> say youre standing under a ceiling hung gas heater. whats the acceptable PPM as it is burning, inside, standing under it.


it detects flammable gases not carbon monoxide, come-ownnn


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

I have an Infinicon that's boosted many a ticket on a membership inspection. It reads concentration, but doesn't have a PPM readout. I used to have an old Amprobe that read PPM in a range, like 0-50, 50-100, etc. I think you'd need lab grade equipment to get an exact amount.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Too bad gas isn't food. Instead of a machine, you could get a black bear as a pet.
Conservative estimates of a black bear's sense of smell state that a black bear can smell a food source from over a mile away, while other sources claim a black bear can smell food from over two miles away. A personal account from "_The Great Bear Almanac_" describes a black bear in California traveling "upwind three miles in a straight line to reach the carcass of a dead deer." More generous estimates place a black bear's sense of smell between 18 and 20 miles, which may sound extreme, until you learn that polar bears, the black bear's cousin, have been known to follow seals for up to 40 miles. 
They're sense of smell is probably in the range of parts per billion.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> it detects flammable gases not carbon monoxide, come-ownnn


asking about a past situation where there is a ppm around 120-150 directly under the heater and 0 reading when not burning.


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## Pipewrench78 (Dec 21, 2021)

Out of curiosity, what’s the importance of the PPM?


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> asking about a past situation where there is a ppm around 120-150 directly under the heater and 0 reading when not burning.


I have no idea, I don’t use a sniffer while gas is burning. I use soap to check manifolds and gas regulators/controls. There’s an allowable amount of leakage from gas controls and regs.



Pipewrench78 said:


> Out of curiosity, what’s the importance of the PPM?


It’s just a measurement of sensitivity. Tells you how sensitive the unit can detect to target gas.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I have no idea, I don’t use a sniffer while gas is burning. I use soap to check manifolds and gas regulators/controls. There’s an allowable amount of leakage from gas controls and regs.
> 
> 
> It’s just a measurement of sensitivity. Tells you how sensitive the unit can detect to target gas.


Right. I completley agree with you. But when a dipsh!t Maintance staff has the sniffers and they stand under a gas lit heater and then shoot out an email because they’re getting a reading while the unit it burning it’s caused us a problem before. And then when you ask the morons what settings they’re using on their sniffer and they reply “I dunno, I just turn it on and press a couple buttons” it makes it even more a PITA. Because the sniffer is picking up something then we are told “ we have a gas leak” when a mono meter test with all the valves on to the appliances shows other wise, and no ppms when the units aren’t burning. I am more or so curious if any one else has been stupid enough to hold a sniffer within feet off a burning flame and then holler there’s a gas leak.


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## Pipewrench78 (Dec 21, 2021)

Tommy plumber said:


> That's what I use but he wants something that reads in PPM.


Nice. I asked him what’s the importance of the PPM. I’m also a licensed mechanical contractor and never needed the ppm; but I am curious and willing to learn something new.


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## Pipewrench78 (Dec 21, 2021)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I have no idea, I don’t use a sniffer while gas is burning. I use soap to check manifolds and gas regulators/controls. There’s an allowable amount of leakage from gas controls and regs.
> 
> 
> It’s just a measurement of sensitivity. Tells you how sensitive the unit can detect to target gas.


I get that. I just never needed the ppm . That’s just me. Interesting.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I have no idea, I don’t use a sniffer while gas is burning. I use soap to check manifolds and gas regulators/controls. There’s an allowable amount of leakage from gas controls and regs.
> 
> 
> It’s just a measurement of sensitivity. Tells you how sensitive the unit can detect to target gas.


serious question, where is this in the code book? International.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> serious question, where is this in the code book? International.


I don’t know but it be a real thing breh. You’ll have too google it. There’s an allowable leakage around gas controls. That’s why you check with soap…..

no bubbles then you don’t replace.

It’ll pick up pipe dope fumes too because some release flammable vapor.



https://inspectapedia.com/heat/Honeywell-Gas-Valve-Leaks.pdf


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Read whole thing but especially the last couple paragraphs in this pdf from Rheem



https://www.globalimageserver.com/FetchDocument.aspx?ID=92adbb79-53bd-4bcf-80ef-cc93044fffce


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## hewhodigsholes (Oct 28, 2020)

There will always be unburnt gas around because no combustion process is 100% complete, though some are closer than others. So holding a high-sensitivity sniffer near an operating appliance will yield a reading.

As for the allowable leakage, that's probably up to the engineers at the manufacturer. Most likely there's a safety reg written deep in the books of OSHA or EPA or some other member of the alphabet soup squad with a max limit.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

hewhodigsholes said:


> As for the allowable leakage, that's probably up to the engineers at the manufacturer. Most likely there's a safety reg written deep in the books of OSHA or EPA or some other member of the alphabet soup squad with a max limit.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

Well I got a call the other day to replace a gas valve on a State 199,000 BTU commercial water heater at a laundromat. Side by side units. Owner called the gas company because they smelled gas. She said the gas company was getting readings of 1100-1200 on the one gas valve and shut it down. 100-200 on the other one and left it in operation. I wanted to change both but she asked me what was an acceptable range. Since I didn't know I told her the gas company would likely be very conservative of what was an acceptable level. The existing White Rodgers valve was obsolete and replaced with an alternate model which suggests that they had issues. Both units were only 4 years old.
So this is what got me to thinking about parts per million. Is there an acceptable level?


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Pipe Rat said:


> Well I got a call the other day to replace a gas valve on a State 199,000 BTU commercial water heater at a laundromat. Side by side units. Owner called the gas company because they smelled gas. She said the gas company was getting readings of 1100-1200 on the one gas valve and shut it down. 100-200 on the other one and left it in operation. I wanted to change both but she asked me what was an acceptable range. Since I didn't know I told her the gas company would likely be very conservative of what was an acceptable level. The existing White Rodgers valve was obsolete and replaced with an alternate model which suggests that they had issues. Both units were only 4 years old.
> So this is what got me to thinking about parts per million. Is there an acceptable level?


I’d love to know/need this information.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

I don’t test for gas leaks with a gas sniffer. 

You test for gas leaks with a manometer and soap.

Gas sniffer is just used to put me in the area.

Glazed donuts have been shown to leak with gas sniffers.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I don’t test for gas leaks with a gas sniffer.
> 
> You test for gas leaks with a manometer and soap.
> 
> ...


So does rubbing alcohol when they’re sprayed on your shoes to enter a room that you’re using a sniffer on directly under a gas burning appliance. Agreed. A low pressure monometer test is the most accurate way I’ve found to check to any leak all the way to the appliances. If a leak is shown, then bust out the bubbles and start chasing it down.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I don’t test for gas leaks with a gas sniffer.
> 
> You test for gas leaks with a manometer and soap.
> 
> ...



Pretty interesting info....thanks for posting. I had observed small {trace } amounts of gas around regulators. After all, they have a vent on them.

I did a gas line in Gainesille, FL a few years ago. In order to pass the rough gas inspection, city of Gainesille makes you use a manometer connected to the gas line. A manometer is extremely sensitive as opposed to a gauge that reades 0 psi through 50 psi. A tiny tiny leak will not even move an analog gauge, but that tiny tiny leak will definitely show on a manometer. I used red gatorade in my manometer so I could see the fluid level easier.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> So does rubbing alcohol when they’re sprayed on your shoes to enter a room that you’re using a sniffer on directly under a gas burning appliance. Agreed. A low pressure monometer test is the most accurate way I’ve found to check to any leak all the way to the appliances. If a leak is shown, then bust out the bubbles and start chasing it down.


Sounds like you were working at a grow facility.

Uncle Terrys been around the world breh.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

It appears *The TIF 8850 combustible gas detector* detects gas in ppms.




__





Indoor Gas Exposure Limits & Gas Toxicity Levels






inspectapedia.com




GAS EXPOSURE LIMITS.


Acetone gas exposure limit - 50ppm,
Acetylene gas exposure limit - 50ppm,
Alcohols gas exposure limit -
Ammonia gas exposure limit - (R717) 20ppm,
Benzene gas exposure limit - ,
Iso-Butane (R600a) gas exposure limit - 500ppm,
Chlorine gas exposure limit - 1ppm,
Ethane (R170) gas exposure limit - 500ppm,
Ethylene gas exposure limit - 500ppm,
Formaldehyde gas exposure limit -
Gasoline gas exposure limit - 1ppm,
Hydrogen gas exposure limit - 500ppm,
Hydrogen Sulfide gas exposure limit - 5ppm,
Lacquer Thinners gas exposure limit - ,
Methane (Natural Gas) gas exposure limit - 500ppm -
Methyl Chloride gas exposure limit - 5ppm,
Methanol gas exposure limit - 50ppm
Methyl Ether gas exposure limit - 500ppm,
N-Butane gas exposure limit - ,
Naphtha gas exposure limit - ,
Propane ("bottled gas" R290) gas exposure limit - 500ppm,
Toluene gas exposure limit - ,
Vinyl chloride gas exposure limit - 5ppm. MDL are generally 1-500 ppm.
What is an unsafe level of natural gas?
Concentrations of *50,000 ppm (5% in air)* are considered immediately dangerous to life and death.
per




__





Loading…






asgmt.com


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

A % in air would be ok too. I ordered a Chinese one off Amazon that reads ppm. I’m going to try it out. Probably order the Bacharach anyway though. To speak in 3rd person I would say Pipe Rat likes cool tools. 😉


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

You’re going to love the Bacharach. 
It’s going to quickly get you in the area of the leak.

It’s way faster than soap. But it has more false positives than soaps if you don’t use it right.


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Pipe Rat said:


> Any recommendations for a digital combustible gas sniffer that reads in PPM?


I use a cigarette lighter,seriously


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

sparky said:


> I use a cigarette lighter,seriously



Probably why you are called sparky....


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## DDDave (Aug 6, 2014)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> You’re going to love the Bacharach.
> It’s going to quickly get you in the area of the leak.
> 
> It’s way faster than soap. But it has more false positives than soaps if you don’t use it right.


That right there is why I haven't spent for a sniffer. I'd rather have a sniffer, it's the nuances that slowed me down.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

DDDave said:


> That right there is why I haven't spent for a sniffer. I'd rather have a sniffer, it's the nuances that slowed me down.



I have used my Bacharach gas sniffer to locate and zero in on sewer gas.
Am I repeating myself? I think that I may have posted this.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

DDDave said:


> That right there is why I haven't spent for a sniffer. I'd rather have a sniffer, it's the nuances that slowed me down.


I use the sniffer to get me in the area of the leak.

I don’t try to put the sniffer up to single fittings or saturate the sniffer in high concentrations of gas.

I use soap for the final leak location.

The sniffer is way quicker than soaping everything in sight.

Believe me, If they didn’t work then I wouldn’t use it. I don’t carry around junk that doesn’t work or works sometimes.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Tommy plumber said:


> I have used my Bacharach gas sniffer to locate and zero in on sewer gas.
> Am I repeating myself? I think that I may have posted this.


I don’t doubt you but my barcarach leaker10 has never been useful for sewer gas. I’ve stuck it into closet arms when I can smell sewer stink and nothing…….


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## DDDave (Aug 6, 2014)

Tommy plumber said:


> I have used my Bacharach gas sniffer to locate and zero in on sewer gas.
> Am I repeating myself? I think that I may have posted this.





TerryTotoSucks said:


> I use the sniffer to get me in the area of the leak.
> 
> I don’t try to put the sniffer up to single fittings or saturate the sniffer in high concentrations of gas.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm getting the quicker part of it for real. So, using it correctly would be like tracking a scent? I don't want to overthink things, I just don't want to miss something because I wasn't using it correctly. Soap makes bubbles and I like that.
Using it for sewer gas is cool I would think.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I don’t doubt you but my barcarach leaker10 has never been useful for sewer gas. I’ve stuck it into closet arms when I can smell sewer stink and nothing…….



I posted a video of this somewhere here on PZ, but I don't know how to locate it.

The video shows my gas sniffer going off like a geiger counter as it gets closer to the base of the toilet where the sewer gas was escaping past a bad wax seal.
So the plumber can charge for a leak search and then and add'l. charge to pull and re-set the W/C.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Tommy plumber said:


> I posted a video of this somewhere here on PZ, but I don't know how to locate it.
> 
> The video shows my gas sniffer going off like a geiger counter as it gets closer to the base of the toilet where the sewer gas was escaping past a bad wax seal.
> So the plumber can charge for a leak search and then and add'l. charge to pull and re-set the W/C.


I suppose it would matter the concentration of the flammable gas within the mix of gas that makes “ sewer gas “ 

I’ve never had any luck with it. I might try again.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I found it. 


(39) Sewer Gas Problem | Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Tommy plumber said:


> I found it.
> 
> 
> (39) Sewer Gas Problem | Plumbing Zone - Professional Plumbers Forum


Yes, I don’t doubt it works sometimes, my common sense tells me that is true. But from my experience it doesn’t work to detect sewer stink everytime like it does what I use it for, gas leaks. 

But I’m going to try it some more by sticking it into cleanouts.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Best 'plumbing' conversation I've read here in a while. Real plumbers talking real plumbing issues, showing their passion in the trade. Good thread here guys.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

So I got the Bacharach Leakator 10 and absolutely love this thing. (No prior experience) After the laundromat Parts Per Million question I was curious as in my 43 years I never used a sniffer or thought I needed one. Shortly after I have another job fixing a hack flip plumbing job with too many problems to talk about and a gas leak.
Fast track I ordered a PPM reading sniffer from Amazon. It just didn't feel right, I didn't know what to expect though as I had never used one. But there was no audio alarm until it registered a really heavy concentration so you had to keep your eye on the screen for indications.
I think the hack pipe doped the inside of the black iron fittings.
So I also ordered the Bacharach Leakator 10. I fixed the leaks in the basement and my manometer indicated more leaks so I had to reschedule to bring a helper to work in the attic. I received the Bacharach for phase 2 and man o man it was like Tonka vs Milwaukee. More sensitive, Audio alert plus visual. Looking back I don't care what the PPM is. If you have a leak I'll fix it. You have a leak or you don't, simple, black and white.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Pipe Rat said:


> So I got the Bacharach Leakator 10 and absolutely love this thing. (No prior experience) After the laundromat Parts Per Million question I was curious as in my 43 years I never used a sniffer or thought I needed one. Shortly after I have another job fixing a hack flip plumbing job with too many problems to talk about and a gas leak.
> Fast track I ordered a PPM reading sniffer from Amazon. It just didn't feel right, I didn't know what to expect though as I had never used one. But there was no audio alarm until it registered a really heavy concentration so you had to keep your eye on the screen for indications.
> I think the hack pipe doped the inside of the black iron fittings.
> So I also ordered the Bacharach Leakator 10. I fixed the leaks in the basement and my manometer indicated more leaks so I had to reschedule to bring a helper to work in the attic. I received the Bacharach for phase 2 and man o man it was like Tonka vs Milwaukee. More sensitive, Audio alert plus visual. Looking back I don't care what the PPM is. If you have a leak I'll fix it. You have a leak or you don't, simple, black and white.


I knew you’d like it. 

So, what manometer do you use ? Water ? Digital ? 

What do you do to test when the gas is not available, say the gas company took the meter or locked it ?


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

TerryTotoSucks said:


> I knew you’d like it.
> 
> So, what manometer do you use ? Water ? Digital ?
> 
> What do you do to test when the gas is not available, say the gas company took the meter or locked it ?


I don't have it in front of me but it's the Fieldpulse dual port model recently discussed here. Prior to this one particular job I always air or nitrogen tested as I never owned a monometer either.


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## TerryTotoSucks (5 mo ago)

Pipe Rat said:


> I don't have it in front of me but it's the Fieldpulse dual port model recently discussed here. Prior to this one particular job I always air or nitrogen tested as I never owned a monometer either.


That’s the same manometer I use also. Solid unit.


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