# Gate valves, globe valves or ball valves for residential potable water.



## Protech

Which one do you use? Why?


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## ILPlumber

Ball.

I prefer valves that actually work later.

Anyone installing gate valves on potable lines is cheating the consumer. I don't care if they are "best line" gate valves. :laughing:


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## SlickRick

Ball valves, no comparison in the long run.


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## Phat Cat

Dropped gate valves are a real problem. Not being able to shut one off completely when needed can cause significant damage.

Ball valves for us.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Where is the poll that pcplumber put up a year or two ago, might of been someone else that asked "Would you install a gate valve" or something of the nature that had a poll that overwhelmingly had votes for ball valve?

If anyone knows where it is at, I've got a good reason to drudge it up in relation to this one.

There was 2 votes for gate valves, the rest were ball valves.


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## Phat Cat

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/gate-valves-ball-valves-vote-2094/


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## Phat Cat

> Glad I'm not on trial for murder and this forum is my jury. I'd be in prison the rest of my life while waiting for the verdict.
> 
> And I did not know Nibco's were bronze. They do look sort of brown now that you mentioned it. You are very knowledgeable.
> 
> This means we have been lying to our customers for many years.
> Last edited by BatonRougePlumb; 01-30-2009 at 08:44 PM..


I think this is what you were referring to Dunbar. PCP weighed in on the issue.


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## Tommy plumber

I install ball valves.

But thank God the plumbers back in the day installed gate valves!....:clap:

Every night when I say my prayers, I thank God for gate valves, PB pipe and "glass-lined" W/H's. :laughing:


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## easttexasplumb

Ball valves.

They are just plain better.


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## ToUtahNow

Ball valve

Gates have too many problems with debris in the race.

Globe valves are overkill.


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## plbgbiz

Protech said:


> Which one do you use? Why?


Ball....and you already know why.


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## user4

Protech said:


> Which one do you use? Why?



What is the application?


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## ILPlumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> What is the application?


Gate valves, globe valves or ball valves for residential potable water is the thread title.....


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## user4

ILPlumber said:


> Gate valves, globe valves or ball valves for residential potable water is the thread title.....



Is it an isolation valve for a water heater, or an outside faucet, or riser valves to shut down 25 floors, perhaps a valve that feeds a piece of machinery?

There are many applications that need valves in a potable water system, but perhaps my question was not on topic.


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## Protech

see bold



Killertoiletspider said:


> Is it an isolation valve for a water heater, *Yes* or an outside faucet *YES*, or riser valves to shut down 25 floors *NO*, perhaps a valve that feeds a piece of machinery *NO*?
> 
> There are many applications that need valves in a potable water system, but perhaps my question was not on topic.


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## 504Plumber

I vote ball valve, had plenty of gate valves rot at the stem rendering them useless or having them drop down in the valve causing pressure problems and having them buried underground not knowing there is one after the meter.


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## skitian

My work carries ball and globe, some old customers aren't to sure about those ball valves, believe it or not. But in a house I prefer ball valves. When you're installing flanged valves in the ground, I have no problems with gate valves, the new ones are pretty nice


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

PlumbCrazy said:


> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/gate-valves-ball-valves-vote-2094/


 

The reason I asked about this, 



New construction plumbers are putting in these gate valves because they are cheaper than ball valves. They are a working valve when first installed, and it's years later from not being exercised to keep the calcium from building up in the guides that makes them hang up and snap at the threads.


But baton rouge plumber aka pcplumber was for the gate valves, and I think I know why: 


From the perspective of return value, meaning it's a product that's going to go bad, eventually. Damn near everything we install, like a fill valve, supply line, faucet, they all go bad... eventually.

We as plumbers take on two different venues of what is best interest for the customer.

You install a ball valve, it's most like the last valve being installed for the application, unless of course if it is a BK Mueller valve which is absolute junk. Seen too many cancer out in short time because the sockets are way too thin, casting shows how they just do not hold up. 


If you install a gate for a gate, you have a choice to inform the customer that IF they exercise the valve once a year, it will hold up over time with no issues. That's true in a lot of ways. 


For anyone that thinks that's a retarded point of view? 

You plumbers installing those cpvc shutoffs are the worst. Those don't last even 2-3 years and they break most of the time when you need them most. 

Never should those of been legal, ever but once again this all falls on the plumber saving a buck at the builder's command. Grow a F-ing spine, you guys are making guys like me very profitable and I'd rather do it in other ways through maintenance, not someone working at rail thin margins.


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## user4

Protech said:


> Is it an isolation valve for a water heater, YES or an outside faucet YES, or riser valves to shut down 25 floors NO, perhaps a valve that feeds a piece of machinery NO?


For water heaters in single family homes I liked using Butterball butterfly valves from Milwaukee, they didn't suffer from the stiffening that occurs in the teflon seats of most ball valves due to the hot water expansion.

On outside faucets I always use a stop and waste valve, even if it is for a FF sillcock, and showed the homeowner the proper way to shut it off and drain it in autumn. This application does not warrant the cost of a drainable ball valve, some would say it is a waste as it is a valve to serve a valve.


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## Redwood

Ball Valve! Because I like to install plumbing that works for my customers....


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## Protech

Blue



Killertoiletspider said:


> For water heaters in single family homes I liked using Butterball butterfly valves from Milwaukee, they didn't suffer from the stiffening that occurs in the teflon seats of most ball valves due to the hot water expansion. *Huh? Never ran into anything like that. Can you explain how that works and what causes it?*
> 
> On outside faucets I always use a stop and waste valve, even if it is for a FF sillcock, and showed the homeowner the proper way to shut it off and drain it in autumn. This application does not warrant the cost of a drainable ball valve, some would say it is a waste as it is a valve to serve a valve.
> *We just use a plainjane ballvalve silcock here in Florida as freezing isn't an issue on sillcocks.
> *


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## Redwood

Protech said:


> Huh? Never ran into anything like that. Can you explain how that works and what causes it?


500+ Degrees F hot water will do it every time... :laughing:


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## plumbtastic

Redwood said:


> 500+ Degrees F hot water will do it every time... :laughing:


500+ degree hot water huh? Does a guy get that from a water heater or a hot water heater?


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## Redwood

plumbtastic said:


> 500+ degree hot water huh? Does a guy get that from a water heater or a hot water heater?


He would need a hot hot hot hot water heater....:laughing:


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## Chief Inspector

*Chief Inspector*

Ball valves are great but they can be abused. When a quarter turn vale is opened quickly you can create some nasty water hammers. 0 psi to 85psi in a blink of an eye in our water system(Bam!). All water meters here must have slow opening valves on the inlet side to protect the inner workings of the meter. Gate valves are used mostly because they are cheaper than globe valves. They fail because the gate-ways get corroded and don't close. Then you break the stems when you over tighten to get it to shut off or you have to open it against pressure. 
Backflow preventers (DCVA & RPZ) use gates. Most of those are resilient wedge designs where the gate is a coated wedge (not a disc) that closes against a smooth valve bottom. They are rated 100% close but they cost more than the standard gate.


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## Protech

There, fixed it for ya.



Chief Inspector said:


> Ball valves are great but they can be abused. When a quarter turn vale is opened quickly you can create some nasty water hammers. 0 psi to 85psi in a blink of an eye in our water system(Bam!). All water meters here must have slow opening valves on the inlet side to protect the inner workings of the meter. Gate valves are used mostly because they are cheaper than globe *(did you mean "ball" here?)* valves. They fail because the gate-ways get corroded and don't close. Then you break the stems when you over tighten to get it to shut off or you have to open it against pressure.
> *Very large *Backflow preventers (DCVA & RPZ) use gates. *2" and smaller use ball valves.* *Some* of those are resilient wedge designs where the gate is a coated wedge (not a disc) that closes against a smooth valve bottom. They are rated 100% close but they cost more than the standard gate. *Right, but we are talking about residential here, so none of that last paragraph applies.*


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## Airgap

:smartass:
**It seemed like a simple enough question to start with......** **But what it turned into, was much more complex**


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## easttexasplumb

That's what we are here for to over analyze, and pick apart every statement.


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## wundumguy

I get nervous every time I have to rely on an old gate valve for isolation.


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## 422 plumber

Full port ball valves so I can get my jet swets thru them.


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## GREENPLUM

first company i worked for used gate valves

they stocked them at the shop right next to the plastic tee bolts and push on/off stop & supply


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## Redwood

GREENPLUM said:


> first company i worked for used gate valves
> 
> they stocked them at the shop right next to the plastic tee bolts and push on/off stop & supply


Wow! Did we work at the same place? :laughing:

Did you forget to mention these as well?


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## easttexasplumb

I love those rubber p traps. :laughing:


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## evilcyrus

ball valves.. i cut out gates non stop... we do alot of high rise.. i know u said res... but thought i give 2 cents... when i see a gate valve i dont even attempt to see if it holds.. we're doing riser valves on over 100 buildings right now.. slowly but shurly were getting there.. always rember if u pipe something in that will last a long time and work u can sleep at night , if it dosn't work in 20 years that = job creation. , if u pipe something in and it last 1 year thats ripping someone off.


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## SewerRatz

You all sing the praises of ball valves, but I have seen many that failed. I had ones where I had to really muscle the valve shut, others where when you turn it off water still seeped.

I have seen 50+ year old gate valves that worked like the day they where installed. 

Now do not get me wrong I install ball valves, mostly for ease of use for home owners, and the fact they fit in tighter spaces. I do explain to the home owners they can turn the after off as fast as they want, but to turn the water on very slowly.


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## Chief Inspector

Protech said:


> There, fixed it for ya.


Thanks but...
In our water system you can only use gate or globe as the meter control valve (slow closing). So I meant globe...
In NYS Code Residential includes: one and two family dwellings, mulitple dwellings, apartment buildings, dormatories, aged living communities, frats and even hotels!!! Residential valves can get big...I believe the original question was "which residential valve do you prefer." Thanks for keeping me on my toes:yes:

I don't mind the comments...If I want milk toast I can chat with the Building
guys but if I want meat...I chat with the plumbers:laughing:


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## Plumberman

Case in point...

Remodel I am doing right now, 6 lines feeding an office space, two different sets of gate valves. First three held one 100%. Second set none of them gave me a 100% shut off.

I'm not installing gates on those three that didn't shut down completely.... Piss on them. It's ball valve time!


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

Chief Inspector said:


> Thanks but...
> In our water system you can only use gate or globe as the meter control valve (slow closing). So I meant globe...
> In NYS Code Residential includes: one and two family dwellings, mulitple dwellings, apartment buildings, dormatories, aged living communities, frats and even hotels!!! Residential valves can get big...I believe the original question was "which residential valve do you prefer." Thanks for keeping me on my toes:yes:
> 
> I don't mind the comments...If I want milk toast I can chat with the Building
> guys but if I want meat...I chat with the plumbers:laughing:


in nyc ball valves can be used wherever gate valves can and over 3" or with fire sprinkler you would use an os&y valve


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## Catlin987987

I have busten many ballvalve handles, I do think that a good gate valve lasts alot longer then a good ball valve


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

Killertoiletspider said:


> For water heaters in single family homes I liked using Butterball butterfly valves from Milwaukee, they didn't suffer from the stiffening that occurs in the teflon seats of most ball valves due to the hot water expansion.
> 
> On outside faucets I always use a stop and waste valve, even if it is for a FF sillcock, and showed the homeowner the proper way to shut it off and drain it in autumn. This application does not warrant the cost of a drainable ball valve, some would say it is a waste as it is a valve to serve a valve.


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## HOMER

re: ball valves :
when shopping them

2 things I'm looking for on a CxC type :

is it full port
does it have a packing nut under the handle...

I know the Water Oil Gas (WOG)
what does TSP stand for on the valve body ?


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

Tsp is a brand


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## c-note

ball valves by nibco full port my fave


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

c-note said:


> ball valves by nibco full port my fave


Yes yes yes yes. Domestic not import. Kitz are good too


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## cityplumbing

I'm a fan of the ball valve personally...


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## Ron

Ball valves all the time, I do carry a few gates just in case it is needed.


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## Redwood

Looks like PC Plumber's sock puppet just voted...

2 votes for gate valve now.... :laughing:


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## Ron

Where would one use a globe valve at anyways?


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## Protech

Ron said:


> Where would one use a globe valve at anyways?


I see them on old water service penitrations. They (unlike gate valves) will usually shut off. Yes, a ball valve would have been better but I didn't build the place.


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## PLUMBER_BILL

Protech said:


> I see them on old water service penitrations. They (unlike gate valves) will usually shut off. Yes, a ball valve would have been better but I didn't build the place.


*I was always taught ...*
* That a gate valve is for on or off, fully extended up or down.*
* Same with a ball valve on or off.*
* If you must throttle use a globe, or a needle.*
*You could get away with a compresion stop if it's installed*
*in the right direction but you cannot use a temperature*
*that will expand the washer for throtteling.*


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## smoldrn

I try & only use 'Apollo' ball valves, made by Conbraco, but I just did a re-pipe on a restaurant with 30+ yr old Red & White gate valves that worked like new.
I remember putting that brand in years ago. The old man who owned the company said they were some of the best, even though they were made in Japan.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

I've seen a Nazi stamped gate valve that worked like new jap,ger both make precision high quality stuff always have (good metal to)


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