# Getting serious about drain cleaning



## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

Over the years I have cleared a few drains. Never really promoted it or pushed it in any way. I have been thinking about promoting it. 

I currently have a ridgid 1500, a medium general drum, not sure of the model and a general auger that looks like a drill motor. Also there is a big spartan in serious need of rebuilding or scrapping. I just started using the 1500, I recieved it from a customer that could not pay his bill so he gave me the machine. It was a good trade in my opinion. He owed me 500 dollars and the machine is like new with a 100 feet of cable.

99 percent of my calls are on septic tanks. Any thoughts? what am I missing? A camera would be nice but is currently out of my budget for now.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

It sounds llike a good start.

I hate drain cleaning, but it brings in alot of work. We have been talking about getting camera for a while, but we don't need one enough to justify the cost. We would probaly use one much more if we had one. We have a arrangement with our local Roto-Rooter, they do all our camera work. They are not licensed and only do drain work so there is no risk of them stealing customers.


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

johnh said:


> Over the years I have cleared a few drains. Never really promoted it or pushed it in any way. I have been thinking about promoting it.
> 
> I currently have a ridgid 1500, a medium general drum, not sure of the model and a general auger that looks like a drill motor. Also there is a big spartan in serious need of rebuilding or scrapping. I just started using the 1500, I recieved it from a customer that could not pay his bill so he gave me the machine. It was a good trade in my opinion. He owed me 500 dollars and the machine is like new with a 100 feet of cable.
> 
> 99 percent of my calls are on septic tanks. Any thoughts? what am I missing? A camera would be nice but is currently out of my budget for now.


You can rent a camera from companies like Sunbelt Rentals. Not sure who has what in your area. But even if you dont mark up the rental cost, you can still make money on the repair. In my experience, customers will almost always choose to do at least a spot repair once they see the actual break with their own eyes. Anything less than that is just their imagination. Imagination is nice, but it doesnt sell dig jobs...:whistling2:


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

My business never did drain cleaning, we always referred it out to other local companies. 2012 in March, things were a little slow. I decided to stop turning away lateral rodding jobs. I went out and bought a new Spartan 2001 so I could dabble in lateral jobs if I was slow. 

After doing a few of them, I started to see the potential in sewer rodding. I started looking for a camera. In May of 2012, I found a Ridgid Seesnake 200' B&W reel, tube monitor, and locator for $2300 on Ebay....I was bidding on it and got really lucky! 

After seeing what was going on in sewers, I decided maybe I should get a Jetter for upselling jobs. Guys around here were charging $130-150/hr for rodding, and $175-250/hr for Jetting. It just made sense to upsell and make more money per hour. 

In August of 2012 I bought a Brute Jetter from Jetters Northwest. I got it, a 100' fresh water reel and a 200' remote 3/8 pressure reel with a shut off valve. This complete setup was right around $10k WELL WORTH THE MONEY!!

After getting the Brute Jetter, I was charging $180/hr for jetting where I was only averaging about $120/hr for the cable machines...(To be competitive and get in the door.)

The Brute was a big hit with my customers. I was using it all the time. I ended up billing out over $5K with it in the first 5 months of owning it. I decided over the winter to step it up a notch and go after some big commercial accounts. For this I would need something much bigger though. 

In March 2013, I bought a Harben trailer jetter 4000k psi @ 16gpm. This machine has been a big money maker at about $280/hr. I've already billed out over $15k with it since March! 

Since March of 2012, I have spent about $50-55K in drain cleaning equipment. I don't regret spending one penny!!! 

This stuff is a big investment, sometimes a big risk, but its a tool and will be around for a long time, and allows you to make bigger profits than just plain labor for plumbing jobs. 


My advice to you, watch Ebay and Craigslist day and night for deals. Grab a good camera when you get a chance. Showing the customer what is in a line is great, after they see it, they don't care how much it costs, just get it clean!

If you have any questions, or want to chat, feel free to message me, or call me. My number is on my website. I'm almost always the one who answers.

**Another piece of advice. Don't sell unnecessary dig jobs. A small crack or roots in sections of clay can be cleaned and maintained. You want repeat business right? Its not wrong to push maintenance over replacement or repair. Most dig jobs have to be "sold" anyway. Think about it, dig it now and never come back for a rod job. Or maintain it for a few years, then replace it after 4-5 trips back (5-10 years) when it gets really bad. Job security**


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> My business never did drain cleaning, we always referred it out to other local companies. 2012 in March, things were a little slow. I decided to stop turning away lateral rodding jobs. I went out and bought a new Spartan 2001 so I could dabble in lateral jobs if I was slow.
> 
> After doing a few of them, I started to see the potential in sewer rodding. I started looking for a camera. In May of 2012, I found a Ridgid Seesnake 200' B&W reel, tube monitor, and locator for $2300 on Ebay....I was bidding on it and got really lucky!
> 
> ...


Hey Andersen! PM me when u can!


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I see your point on not always selling a dig, but what about other aspects like damage to structure of home from back ups? Or the health issues of raw sewage. I'd rather be a straight shooter with the customer and sell the dig if that is what is needed. No shame in replacing the sewer if that is what's needed.


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## Mpc_mhayes (Nov 27, 2012)

I 2nd craigslist. I got my seesnake compact for $600. Its only 100' But it has got me a lot of jobs. I carry a K-60 and a k-45AF on the truck now. I am going to start my jetter trailer soon.


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

Will said:


> I see your point on not always selling a dig, but what about other aspects like damage to structure of home from back ups? Or the health issues of raw sewage. I'd rather be a straight shooter with the customer and sell the dig if that is what is needed. No shame in replacing the sewer if that is what's needed.


I think we are on the same page. I guess what I mean to say is that I don't run into every job trying to sell a dig like a lot of shops in my area. We have a couple franchise companies who don't know a damn thing about Rodding or jetting until they have a dig or lining job sold. 

I've been called in twice on second opinion jobs that were both fine. They didn't even clean them 100% before they told them to dig it. We found that most of the roots were at the sections and not even that big/thick roots, just good size bushes of fine roots.

We ran the Jetter down the line and it looked great afterwords.


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## Mpc_mhayes (Nov 27, 2012)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> I think we are on the same page. I guess what I mean to say is that I don't run into every job trying to sell a dig like a lot of shops in my area. We have a couple franchise companies who don't know a damn thing about Rodding or jetting until they have a dig or lining job sold.
> 
> I've been called in twice on second opinion jobs that were both fine. They didn't even clean them 100% before they told them to dig it. We found that most of the roots were at the sections and not even that big/thick roots, just good size bushes of fine roots.


 
We have the same thing here. I have been called out to jobs that the plumber didn't even try to clear the pipe. They pulled up and said "you got old cast iron with roots and it needs to be replaced" . And the price. I get there clear the line. Run my seesnake and see its not case iron. Its ABS lol. Clean.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

My biggest pet peeve is when these so called Plumber companies, like the ones your referring to(pretty sure there in every market), sell a dig job, and don't replace the sewer all the way to the City Sewer. Get that all the time when another company will under cut me by a thousand or so and they stop at the riser with the city sewer, instead of digging it up and installing a new tap. They probably don't even get it inspected...:furious: Homeowner most of the time can't comprehend the difference.


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## johnh (Jul 6, 2013)

thanks for the comments. I as looking over my drum machine and it's a spartan 300. Here all this time I thought it was a general. It's been rode hard and put up wet. It a hand feed machine, would it help me to add a auto feeder to it? I also have a bigger spartan, not sure on the model number. It is really beat, still works though but needs sprucing up.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

With America's aging sewer and water systems there is no need to sell a job that does not need to be done there are too many out there needing it these days.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

IOW, explain to the customer you can pay less now and enjoy flow. I can come back and in 2-5 years you could pay me again to do the same thing. Or you could pay me a bunch right now and fix it for good. 
Most will want to pay less now and worry about more latter. It's a win win.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

AndersenPlumbing said:


> My business never did drain cleaning, we always referred it out to other local companies. 2012 in March, things were a little slow. I decided to stop turning away lateral rodding jobs. I went out and bought a new Spartan 2001 so I could dabble in lateral jobs if I was slow.
> 
> After doing a few of them, I started to see the potential in sewer rodding. I started looking for a camera. In May of 2012, I found a Ridgid Seesnake 200' B&W reel, tube monitor, and locator for $2300 on Ebay....I was bidding on it and got really lucky!
> 
> ...


This is 1 of the best posts I've ever read. I'm going to show my wife. She caught me looking at trailer jetters last night and said you aren't getting one. I looked at her with the, oh yes I am look,,,,, , so the process begins. Thanks Anderson.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

theplungerman said:


> This is 1 of the best posts I've ever read. I'm going to show my wife. She caught me looking at trailer jetters last night and said you aren't getting one. I looked at her with the, oh yes I am look,,,,, , so the process begins. Thanks Anderson.


Don't tell her about the money you will make with it. Discuss the customers you lost by not having it.


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## theplungerman (Oct 26, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Don't tell her about the money you will make with it. Discuss the customers you lost by not having it.


Good advice. I just totaled what I've made with my cart jetter, half of a high end trailer. In about 9 months. I in fact did lose another plumbers referral work after it took me 3 hrs to fix him up with my cart. He said no offense but the other guy I call has a trailer and he could have done it faster. And another didn't call me back for the same reason. Today I had a whopper of a root job, took me over 5 hrs, that's to long, I'm sure the customers gotta be (might be) thinking, he doesn't have enough juice. I felt like I needed to subtract off the total, as I did. I'm getting to old to have to struggle. I want a slam dunk kind of jetter. Then I can go after those ridiculous grease jobs at restaurants, etc etc.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Just make sure you market the fact you have a trailer jetter. I got mine for almost free but I have fallen on marketing it. Like always you need it and want it.. Then you get it and hardly use it.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

victoryplbaz said:


> Just make sure you market the fact you have a trailer jetter. I got mine for almost free but I have fallen on marketing it. Like always you need it and want it.. Then you get it and hardly use it.


I Agree. Around here the only time you see a trailor mount jetter doing work it is usually at a chicken plant. The smaller jetters rule the restuarant business. 

I knew some guys that had contracts to flush new sewer additions that utility contractors were installing.


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

Will said:


> My biggest pet peeve is when these so called Plumber companies, like the ones your referring to(pretty sure there in every market), sell a dig job, and don't replace the sewer all the way to the City Sewer. Get that all the time when another company will under cut me by a thousand or so and they stop at the riser with the city sewer, instead of digging it up and installing a new tap. They probably don't even get it inspected...:furious: Homeowner most of the time can't comprehend the difference.


I feel ya Will, but in our neck of the woods the tap and riser belong to the city and we CANT touch it. Best I can do if it needs attention is to fix the customer's end, then call the city/county and wait there (on my dime) till they show up, with MY camera still in the line, and show them, and the customer at the same time on the same screen. Anything less than that and they are sure to do nothing at all.:thumbdown:


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

The cheaper trailer jetters have almost the same specs as the brute but look impressive, then there are the real trailer jetters in the 18 GPM 4000 psi range.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

PathMaker said:


> I feel ya Will, but in our neck of the woods the tap and riser belong to the city and we CANT touch it. Best I can do if it needs attention is to fix the customer's end, then call the city/county and wait there (on my dime) till they show up, with MY camera still in the line, and show them, and the customer at the same time on the same screen. Anything less than that and they are sure to do nothing at all.:thumbdown:


Where are you located? How does the city own a private building sewer?


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I think he is talking about the tap. We have the same situation here. The city owns the main and the tap that extends onto the HO's property. Everything beyond the tap is the HO's responsibility.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

You have to tie into there sewer to complete a replacement, can you you not install a new tap? That's crazy. What city?


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

No, we cannot install a new tap. When we do a replacement. We run a new line from the home to the tap. If the tap is root infested or damaged and needs replaced, we call the city and they replace or repair. It's like that all over Arkansas.


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## PlumberJ90 (Oct 10, 2012)

PlungerJockey said:


> No, we cannot install a new tap. When we do a replacement. We run a new line from the home to the tap. If the tap is root infested or damaged and needs replaced, we call the city and they replace or repair. It's like that all over Arkansas.


Same in jacksonville Florida.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

PlungerJockey said:


> No, we cannot install a new tap. When we do a replacement. We run a new line from the home to the tap. If the tap is root infested or damaged and needs replaced, we call the city and they replace or repair. It's like that all over Arkansas.



The tap wouldn't be root infested, but the city sewer could. Strange they wouldn't just let you make a new tap as long as it is permitted and inspected. Now if the city sewer is cracked or busted up and need of repair, that is a different issue. I'd have to call in the city also for that repair.


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

When you have clay tile or SDR 35 sewer taps up to 50' long they get very root infested.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PlungerJockey said:


> When you have clay tile or SDR 35 sewer taps up to 50' long they get very root infested.


Sounds more like an SDR-35 installation problem...
I don't make much money on SDR-35 lines unless someone screwed the pooch...


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

PlungerJockey said:


> When you have clay tile or SDR 35 sewer taps up to 50' long they get very root infested.


Can you explain that more? 50'? That don't sound like a tap, sounds like a private building sewer and the city over stepping there bounds


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## PlungerJockey (Feb 19, 2010)

I'll try

Example # 1
Lets say you have a street running north and south. There is a city sewer main running down the center of the street. We have house on the east and west sides of the street. The main has a wye or combo for each tap. The tap extends from the sewer main, under the street, under the sidewalk to the edge of the property line. You end up with a 20 or 30 foot sewer tap.

Example #2
The street runs north and south. Homes on the east and west side of the street. This time the city main runs north thru the yards of the homes on the east side. In this situation the taps for the homes on the east side extend up off the main at about a 45 degree angle. They only have a 8' tap. The taps for the homes on the west side of the street extend from the main under the the east sidewalk,under the street,and under the west sidewalk to the property line. Which gives you a sewer tap approximately 40-50' long.

Does that make sense.

If the end of the tap is in bad shape, I can cut it out and repair it. The city gets pretty upset if show up with the backhoe and start tearing out the street and sidewalks.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

We can in some cities touch the tap connection. Then some dont want us touching it incase it breaks the main. But normally from the tap up to the building is HO responsibility


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I see your point on a sewer down the middle of the street. But if its in a easement they shouldn't get a say. Weird how in every area plumbing is so different. At least it makes for easy digs for y'all u guess


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## AndersenPlumbing (Jan 23, 2010)

Cuda said:


> The cheaper trailer jetters have almost the same specs as the brute but look impressive, then there are the real trailer jetters in the 18 GPM 4000 psi range.


I have both! :thumbsup:


Its actually funny, one of my customers kinda laughed at my "little jetter" and said I need to get a big jetter like the old company he used to use. After he saw it work, he was shocked! I know who the other company is, they have a Spartan Soldier. Theirs 3k psi @ 12gpm, mine 3600psi @ 8.5gpm. Mine is almost as powerful, and its mounted in an enclosed trailer with a 65gal tank and sits next to 3 drum machines and 2 cameras. 

The next time I visited him, I brought the Harben, he pretty much looked like this >  My Harben makes a Spartan Soldier look like a little toy.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Cuda said:


> The cheaper trailer jetters have almost the same specs as the brute but look impressive, then there are the real trailer jetters in the 18 GPM 4000 psi range.


My JNW Eagle 20 trailer is the exact same unit as their Brute. Same engine and pump. Here's the added features:
Trailer
200gal tank,
Electric start and throttle mounted remotely at the reels. 
12 gallon fuel tank
300' electric hose reel.
Tool storage on trailer


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Don't get me wrong guys all I was saying is the brute can be as badass as the cheaper trailer models but they give more image. I jetted 2 today made the money, they want no repairs though they need them, and I open it up for them to buy more time. I tell them don't count on this forever and they say yea I don't ,lol


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