# Fixing up a badly piped boiler



## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Got a call from a semi-regular customer. He was selling the house, the boiler had been making some strange noises and he needed to get it fixed as one of the conditions of the sale.

So I go look and the boiler is singing and snapping like mad (super low flow and corrosion inside). The radiant loop supply line heats up to 140F and the loop limit kicks the boiler off. The mixer doesn't do anything anymore - just lets full temp water through. So it's been riding the loop limit for I don't know how long - probably since day one. The way it's piped it wouldn't have worked right even before the mixer cooked itself.

Here are the before pics. You'll laugh. Balwinder did a piss poor job. No hangers - the pipes had sagged down at the back about 5 inches. Pictures don't really make it obvious just how badly sagged it was.

He's trying to run the boiler loop through the mixer valve, which of course won't work. The only reason it kind of sort of worked for 5 or 6 years is because we have mild winters here. If this was done in a colder climate it wouldn't have made it through the first winter before the homeowners complained of no heat and had to have it fixed.

Look at the do-it-yourselfey gasfitting! :laughing:




























The thing that really pisses me off is that the same inspector that passed this botched thing comes to my jobs and nitpicks about stuff that just doesn't matter, yet they'll throw an approved card on this piece of junk. This is not the first time I've seen blatantly messed up stuff get passed by these guys.

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I cut out the back of that boiler loop, the mixer & pump, and the loop feed and return. Then I propped things up and fluxed and reflowed the saggy joints to get things reasonably level again. Rebuilt with a new mixer off close-spaced tees and piped it properly. Added a couple hangers to support the weight. Added a purge valve and an air vent. Runs good now - it actually supplies steady heat to the loops instead of occasional pulses of hot water. The boiler still moans some from the corrosion inside, but there's not much I can do about that except sell him a new boiler, which he doesn't want to do.

After pics:



















As I was doing final control tuning I found that Balwinder had wired the return aquastat, which controls the loop pump, with 18/2 LVT. Yup, 120VAC feeding a pump through 18/2 LVT with no armor and no connectors. Some poor schmuck was eventually going to be kneeling in a puddle and stick his fingers in that aquastat and get zapped - maybe killed.  Nobody expects 120V on LVT. So I had to make another trip back next day to rewire that properly.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

Nice fix


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## Pac-12 (May 10, 2015)

looks nice dude


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I like lurking threads like these that are totally out of my realm... but I have to ask... is that flex compression copper gas lines going to the boiler and WH? Around here that is totally illegal.

No complaint or jab, just wondering...


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> I like lurking threads like these that are totally out of my realm... but I have to ask... is that flex compression copper gas lines going to the boiler and WH? Around here that is totally illegal.
> 
> No complaint or jab, just wondering...


Umm... I don't even know what "flex compression copper gas lines" are! Never heard of such a thing.

It's piped, sloppily, with plain old soft copper tubing and flare fittings. When you touch it the whole thing wobbles around wildly. It holds pressure fine and wasn't part of the problem, so it got left alone.

You can't jab at me because I didn't gasfit it. I don't give a crap. :laughing:


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

futz said:


> Umm... I don't even know what "flex compression copper gas lines" are! Never heard of such a thing.
> 
> It's piped, sloppily, with plain old soft copper tubing and flare fittings. When you touch it the whole thing wobbles around wildly. It holds pressure fine and wasn't part of the problem, so it got left alone.
> 
> You can't jab at me because I didn't gasfit it. I don't give a crap. :laughing:


Flare makes more sense... but flex or rigid copper used for gas is a big no no around here. One code that does make sense IMHO. I've seen many houses red tagged because of just that... even if grandfathered. Also, when I did plumbing, if you touch a heater, or any plumbing for that matter, in the inspectors eye's you own it and whatever work someone did previously. You touch it, it must be brought up to code.

That was my only point/question.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> Flare makes more sense... but flex or rigid copper used for gas is a big no no around here. One code that does make sense IMHO. I've seen many houses red tagged because of just that... even if grandfathered. Also, when I did plumbing, if you touch a heater, or any plumbing for that matter, in the inspectors eye's you own it and whatever work someone did previously. You touch it, it must be brought up to code.
> 
> That was my only point/question.


Ah. Gotcha. As ugly and sloppy as that gas piping is, it's totally legal here in BC. When copper first became legal here for gas I was a big skeptic. Didn't like it at all. But it's been legal here for a long, long time and really hasn't been a problem. Most of it isn't as ugly/sloppy as this one though.

I don't call any inspectors about repairs. It's none of their damn business. :laughing: All they want is your money, all of it if they can get their grubby paws on it. Any time I can just leave the city hall parasites out of the picture I'm a happy guy.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

futz said:


> Ah. Gotcha. As ugly and sloppy as that gas piping is, it's totally legal here in BC. When copper first became legal here for gas I was a big skeptic. Didn't like it at all. But it's been legal here for a long, long time and really hasn't been a problem. Most of it isn't as ugly/sloppy as this one though.
> 
> I don't call any inspectors about repairs. It's none of their damn business. :laughing: All they want is your money, all of it if they can get their grubby paws on it. Any time I can just leave the city hall parasites out of the picture I'm a happy guy.


I agree to that. Sorry the way I came off, yeah, no need to call an inspector for a repair. The master I help when he needs it has recently come into a bunch of LL's where the city wants their rentals brought up to code... for everything, new or done back in the day. I ended up picking up a new LL, who is my first job tomorrow, after we looked at one of his rentals. The city is now requiring mandatory laundry hook ups in single family homes. The blood suckers keep adding and adding unnecessary requirements.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> Sorry the way I came off, yeah, no need to call an inspector for a repair.


Don't be sorry. You came off just fine. 



OpenSights said:


> The master I help when he needs it has recently come into a bunch of LL's where the city wants their rentals brought up to code... for everything, new or done back in the day. I ended up picking up a new LL, who is my first job tomorrow, after we looked at one of his rentals. The city is now requiring mandatory laundry hook ups in single family homes.


What's an LL? OH! Duh! Landlord, of course.

If they force full updates on everything I guess there will be a buttload of renters out on the street. I'd think a huge percentage of landlords would just bail out rather than take that loss. Flog that old POS.



OpenSights said:


> The blood suckers keep adding and adding unnecessary requirements.


Tell me about it. The newest code here is retarded! Even the inspectors say things like, "We're not talking about logic here, we're talking about BC plumbing code." There was a time, long ago, when I had pretty good respect for the guys who put the code together. It was obvious they had really put some thought into it. But nowadays it's a bunch of idiot bandwagon jumpers that jump on every shiny fad that comes along, and then they keep pushing already overkill rules farther and farther until it's ridiculous. I'm really tired of it. I want out of this crappy business, but I'm too old to start over.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

futz said:


> Don't be sorry. You came off just fine.
> 
> 
> What's an LL? OH! Duh! Landlord, of course.
> ...


LOL! Around here we have the Ingham County Land Bank. They take possession of a house due to back taxes, invest over $100K and sell it for $80K "to improve the neighborhood" when the average habitable house in the same hood goes for $15-25K. 

We can't buy 3.5 gal flushing toilets anymore. I tell customers to take a trip to Canada and smuggle one back. I can see water conservation in So Kal and Arizona... but MI! Only time it matters is when we get a big storm when you can't flush anyway because the sewer system is overloaded. Then it will just come up in your basement. They're working on separating storm from sewer... won't be done for another decade or two.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Forgot, most rentals are actually big business around here due to the conditions of Flint and Detroit. No jobs there, we have jobs, so we are becoming more section 8 in Lansing and other previously "good" neighborhoods/towns.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

OpenSights said:


> We can't buy 3.5 gal flushing toilets anymore.


We can't either. I think 6 liter (1.58503 US gallon) is the max flush rule, but I'm installing quite a few 4.8 liter (1.26803 US gallon) pots these days. 

Whatever, customers can have those water savers. The falling down old rental shack I live in has an ancient Cadet 2 that takes a full 5 gallon flush. :laughing: Still works great after a little tune up.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Oh man! That sucks! Going to have to change up my routine! They have made improvements to the 1.6gal toilets, but as a drain cleaner, I can tell you that is not enough to push everything to the sewer.

In town we have a new and used plumbing store. If you need something old and Chris doesn't have it or can't get it... you can't get it. Walked in there one day, asked "What is that?!" "A 6gal flush womens' urinal from the '20's."


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