# dont yell i should know this



## irishplumber29 (Jun 23, 2010)

reto a new handicap bathroom, refresh the measurement for the cubical spacing to the toilet and from the floor to each support rail. i know i can myself a plumber i should now this


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

irishplumber29 said:


> reto a new handicap bathroom, refresh the measurement for the cubical spacing to the toilet and from the floor to each support rail. i know i can myself a plumber i should now this


Huh?:blink:

Spell check or something please...


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## ZL700 (Dec 8, 2009)

A wee bit too much of the Irish whiskey I think


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## luv2plumb (Apr 30, 2010)

irishplumber29 said:


> reto a new handicap bathroom, refresh the measurement for the cubical spacing to the toilet and from the floor to each support rail.* i know i can myself* a plumber i should now this


 
Well you don't need to can yourself:laughing: but like Red said spell check it's like you are typing in a foreign laguage


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

irishplumber29 said:


> reto a new handicap bathroom, refresh the measurement for the cubical spacing to the toilet and from the floor to each support rail. i know i can myself a plumber i should now this


the grab bars if thats what youre saying should be set at 33 to 36 of the floor. toilet should be 18 inches to center from side wall. up here the flush handle has to be on the opposite side from the wall. tank type and flush valve


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

Don't 5 your foot forget cirlce. :thumbsup:


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

some good info here

http://www.bradleycorp.com/products/accessories/UniversalDesignGuide.pdf


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

house plumber said:


> the grab bars if thats what youre saying should be set at 33 to 36 of the floor. toilet should be 18 inches to center from side wall. up here the flush handle has to be on the opposite side from the wall. tank type and flush valve


How the heck did you know he was askin that? :laughing:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Redwood said:


> How the heck did you know he was askin that? :laughing:


 
:laughing: I dont know. I guess because I was tired. :blink:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

If its an ADA bathroom, I think you should get hard paper specs. Hate to see you tell the inspector, well the guys on the Plumbing Zone said it was ok.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Indie said:


> If its an ADA bathroom, I think you should get hard paper specs. Hate to see you tell the inspector, well the guys on the Plumbing Zone said it was ok.


It's ok. We go off the same code. :thumbsup:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Maybe this will help, not sure it was a 5 second search on google.

http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

or better yet.

http://www2.iccsafe.org/states/florida_codes/


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Where's Irishplumber's response? Maybe he hasn't sobered up yet.:drink:


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

I didn't want to start a new thread, so may I add to this one.

My friend just got red carded by the "engineer" of the project for the ada toilets not being 18 inches off the finish side wall. I mean "dead on" 18 inches. I've always tried to rough in the underground a little further away just in case the framer screws up or the owner changes finish wall. What's going to hurt if the toilets 19 inches off finish wall? I searched and searched codebook and online but can't find anything. My old boss thought he heard at one point that the min. is 18 inch and the max. distance is 21 inches but he doesn't know where he heard or read it from.

I mean what a joke. Next thing we know well be putting down tub boxes for toilet risers or spending court time suing the contractor/framer over who missed the wall dimensions. We are talking about 14 toilets in question!:furious:


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## Mpls Jay (Jan 1, 2011)

6th Density said:


> I didn't want to start a new thread, so may I add to this one.
> 
> My friend just got red carded by the "engineer" of the project for the ada toilets not being 18 inches off the finish side wall. I mean "dead on" 18 inches. I've always tried to rough in the underground a little further away just in case the framer screws up or the owner changes finish wall. What's going to hurt if the toilets 19 inches off finish wall? I searched and searched codebook and online but can't find anything. My old boss thought he heard at one point that the min. is 18 inch and the max. distance is 21 inches but he doesn't know where he heard or read it from.
> 
> I mean what a joke. Next thing we know well be putting down tub boxes for toilet risers or spending court time suing the contractor/framer over who missed the wall dimensions. We are talking about 14 toilets in question!:furious:


Are we talking something as sad as a 1/2" ?!


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Where is the CL mark at on a wc?


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Yup!!

We've learned the hard way that you don't go less than 18 inches. Even 17.5" can get flagged and that's code. You're SOL, especially if it's a wall mount toilet!!!:thumbup: 

So we always go an extra 1/2 inch to 1 inch just in case depending on how close the toilet is to the exterior walls (less room for plumbing and framers not seeing eye to eye. We've got some toilets 18.5 inches, 18.75 inches, 19 inches, and a few 20 inches. But 20 is the max we are off. How is 2 inches going to make a difference whether or not a person can reach the grab bars comfortably. What do they do, they take polls or something????:furious:


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> Where is the CL mark at on a wc?


Well I guess that depends on the inspector. We've gotten away before with twisting the toilet out of square to get the 1/2 inch we need. But that only works with the floor mounts. And it depends on where the inspector measures from. Wall mounts can't budge. Unless you know something I don't?:whistling2:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't allow for anything. I put them on 18", and help the framer layout the framing.

Didn't you check the framing?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

6th Density said:


> I didn't want to start a new thread, so may I add to this one.
> 
> My friend just got red carded by the "engineer" of the project for the ada toilets not being 18 inches off the finish side wall. I mean "dead on" 18 inches. I've always tried to rough in the underground a little further away just in case the framer screws up or the owner changes finish wall. What's going to hurt if the toilets 19 inches off finish wall? I searched and searched codebook and online but can't find anything. My old boss thought he heard at one point that the min. is 18 inch and the max. distance is 21 inches but he doesn't know where he heard or read it from.
> 
> I mean what a joke. Next thing we know well be putting down tub boxes for toilet risers or spending court time suing the contractor/framer over who missed the wall dimensions. We are talking about 14 toilets in question!:furious:


 



What is the measurement? More than 18" or less? Can't be less, but over 18" is OK.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

The figure is 18" flat. No min, no max.





http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/figures/fig30a.html


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> I don't allow for anything. I put them on 18", and help the framer layout the framing.
> 
> Didn't you check the framing?


It was for a school. Too much going on at one time to stand along the 20 block masons. Slopping their sorry craftmanship around. The contractor went through 4 mason companies to get all the block walls up. Makes you realize the truth behind the ideology to "STAY SMALL!!!" 
I'm not running this job, my co-worker is and he's the 4th foreman to take over the job. Our company's already 200,000 in the hole over it. This is the same engineer that tied a foodwaste scrap master/ with garbage disposal into the "sanitary sewer" line. What happens on fried chicken day at school? That's a lot of grease going down the sanitary!!


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

200k and rising....


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> What is the measurement? More than 18" or less? Can't be less, but over 18" is OK.


Hey Tommy. That's what I've always thought. Our county and city inspectors are one the same page. It's the engineer that's calling us out on it.
Do you got any code documentation on that?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Check the link I posted above. It has always been 18"period.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> The figure is 18" flat. No min, no max.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well that's disheartening but good to know finally. Thanks Rick.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> 200k and rising....


Oh you don't know the half of it. The LD's at 3000 a day are just days away!!

Thank God I already passed my test. I'm guesstimating (that's what our estimator's call it) that this job could close our plumbing doors completely.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> Check the link I posted above. It has always been 18"period.


 



You're absolutely correct Rick. I just checked in my Fl. Bldg. Code Chapt. 11 under accessibility, and it shows 18" period. No min or max.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

I think their errors in engineering might be our only "ace in the pocket" to back them down.
Try and throw the ball in their court if they hold us to it. Garbage disposals without solids waste interceptors and a garbage disposal tied into sanitary sewer line.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> You're absolutely correct Rick. I just checked in my Fl. Bldg. Code Chapt. 11 under accessibility, and it shows 18" period. No min or max.


I'll have to check that out.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I hope it works out, but it doesn't sound good.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> I hope it works out, but it doesn't sound good.


LOL, I'm at the point with my company that I really don't care. All they do is take more away from us (benefits and such). Our overhead has more experience in Hvac and Chillwater than anything. How does that help out a bunch of plumbers?:whistling2:

They don't know how much we do for them!!!:furious: 

I see a big transition a coming...:laughing:


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Alright I found a small glitch in the code books. the 2004 fl pl code book shows a picture with 18 inches min. the one next to it says 18 inches (no min or max). the fl building code chapter 11, from 2004 and 2007 only state 18 inches. And the 2007 fl pl code corrected the 2004 and show only 18" on the pictures/ diagrams.

WOW what an eye opener!!!

Thanks Slick and glad you got to see this too Tommy.

Cheers!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The way the diagram shows in the Fla. Bldg. Code is that it is supposed to be 18" from CL of toilet to the wall with the grab bar and 18" min from CL of toilet to any obstruction (usually a lav) on the other side. So grab bar side has to be 18" dead on. The other side can be more than 18". 

If it's in a stall I think it's different, probably has to be 18" dead on with both sides. I tried to upload a pic from my code book, but my computer wouldn't co-operate.


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

6th Density said:


> LOL, I'm at the point with my company that I really don't care. All they do is take more away from us (benefits and such). Our overhead has more experience in Hvac and Chillwater than anything. How does that help out a bunch of plumbers?:whistling2:
> 
> They don't know how much we do for them!!!:furious:
> 
> I see a big transition a coming...:laughing:


The way our shop cured it was everyone had to carry each licenses'. we also made it clear to the plumbers that the HVAC carried them when it rained for days and they couldnt work. its one of those vise~versa deals sometimes HVAC carried the plumbers other times the plumbers carried the HVAC guys. Youll have a seriously high overhead w/ HVAC/R, due to copper prices and all the dang parts, Get them to save all the scrap copper even niblets, scrap sheet metal then sell all to get what you can. what the heck a little freon oil on copper doesnt hurt when your selling it.

to stay within the 18" we always set the stand pipes at or near 18" then wrapped with scrap 'itch' inso about 2" in thickness. Dont glue in the stand pipes, if you have to water test put wax in the fittings to hold the water. Then after the walls are up and its time to set the flange you pull stand out clean off the wax, pull inso 'itch' out and set it dead on 18" gives you a little bit of play room if its off.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

I believe that 6D said they were carrier mounted w/c's in a block wall. No fudjing there. Just install them exactly where they are supposed to be. I have always been anal about not having to move anything without a change order. Make sure the plans are current, layout as planned, no need to adjust. Got a problem, submit a RFI.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

shakeyglenn68 said:


> The way our shop cured it was everyone had to carry each licenses'. we also made it clear to the plumbers that the HVAC carried them when it rained for days and they couldnt work. its one of those vise~versa deals sometimes HVAC carried the plumbers other times the plumbers carried the HVAC guys. Youll have a seriously high overhead w/ HVAC/R, due to copper prices and all the dang parts, Get them to save all the scrap copper even niblets, scrap sheet metal then sell all to get what you can. what the heck a little freon oil on copper doesnt hurt when your selling it.
> 
> to stay within the 18" we always set the stand pipes at or near 18" then wrapped with scrap 'itch' inso about 2" in thickness. Dont glue in the stand pipes, if you have to water test put wax in the fittings to hold the water. Then after the walls are up and its time to set the flange you pull stand out clean off the wax, pull inso 'itch' out and set it dead on 18" gives you a little bit of play room if its off.


Thanks Shakeyglenn68!! I went to bed last night trying to think of a way to create play for a floor mount toilet riser for future purposes "without using a tub boxout". You answered my prayer!! What an idea. I never would have thought about using wax to create the temporary seal!! Nice rig man. God I love this site.

But unfortunately slickrick is right. 75% of the gang bath toilets on this school are wall mount and the carriers are in the chase of the block walls. with no access (like the smart engineers create at airports). Top that all of with the fact that almost all the block cells in the building are poured with concrete!

I had prior obligations today (had to get fingerprinted for my license processing :thumbup but will be working out there tomorrow on OT. I think my companies doomed! Or at least the plumbing side!!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Can the partitions be moved? Wouldn't that be easier than trying to move carriers that are in a poured concrete wall?


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> I believe that 6D said they were carrier mounted w/c's in a block wall. No fudjing there. Just install them exactly where they are supposed to be. I have always been anal about not having to move anything without a change order. Make sure the plans are current, layout as planned, no need to adjust. Got a problem, submit a RFI.



You're totally right. Gotta turn this issue into a money maker not the opposite. Cover your arse in your contract. Let your contractor and framer know the risk potential and that it will not be your responsibility for alterations on print revisions, finish walls, etc...
But like I said earlier, this is a first for me and many others in my area. We've always been given leeway by the inspectors as long as the toilet is no less than 18 inches (and not ridiculously too far past 18 inches). What an eye opener.:yes:


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## Fredsait (Jan 11, 2011)

house plumber said:


> the grab bars if thats what youre saying should be set at 33 to 36 of the floor. toilet should be 18 inches to center from side wall. up here the flush handle has to be on the opposite side from the wall. tank type and flush valve


 
I concur....well said..


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> Can the partitions be moved? Wouldn't that be easier than trying to move carriers that are in a poured concrete wall?


The majority of the handicap toilets are at the end of the gang restrooms making the finish wall tiled concrete block. This goes the same for the single (teacher/admin) restrooms. Side wall is tiled concrete block. I hear what your getting at but no. There's no way to fudge other than make alterations/fur out to the thickness of the walls via mud. Don't know which solution would be cheaper since the tile is already up, but then again that might be less cost than to tear the wall open and offset the carriers!! Thank Tommy, for giving me another option.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Decided to play along and look it up in my code book.

Ontario states between 460mm and 480mm (18 1/8 - 18 7/8). So it gives you a bit of room to play with. Just shoot for 18 1/2 and all will be good... Lol!

Or just like Rick said, do it RIGHT the first time. That is the motto of the U.A. Rick, ever consider organizing? Hahaha!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Sometimes if a licensed engineer signs off on something, that can override an inspector. Here is another idea. Don't laugh, install grab bars that extend out further from the wall. Maybe that with an engineer's approval will fly with code enforcement.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Decided to play along and look it up in my code book.
> 
> Ontario states between 460mm and 480mm (18 1/8 - 18 7/8). So it gives you a bit of room to play with. Just shoot for 18 1/2 and all will be good... Lol!
> 
> Or just like Rick said, do it RIGHT the first time. That is the motto of the U.A. Rick, ever consider organizing? Hahaha!


That emoticons is supposed to be an eight followed by a right bracket. As in eighteen and seven eighths of an inch.
Sorry


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Decided to play along and look it up in my code book.
> 
> Ontario states between 460mm and 480mm (18 1/8 - 18 7/8). So it gives you a bit of room to play with. Just shoot for 18 1/2 and all will be good... Lol!
> 
> Or just like Rick said, do it RIGHT the first time. That is the motto of the U.A. Rick, ever consider organizing? Hahaha!


There has been a lot of times I wish we had a UA around here. The closest is 100 mi. in any direction. They shut the hall down in Longview in @ '84. I could take on bigger work if I had manpower. I have more ability than resource's here.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> Sometimes if a licensed engineer signs off on something, that can override an inspector. Here is another idea. Don't laugh, install grab bars that extend out further from the wall. Maybe that with an engineer's approval will fly with code enforcement.



Thanks Tommy!! That sounds like it just might fly. I'll let you know. All the help is much appreciated!!:yes:

edit: off to a shrimp boil. be back this evening.


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

I had an inspector tell me once that there was an ANSI code that said 18" -20" is acceptable, I cannot find this. I have found several ADA codes that state 18" as a min, but no max. I would try the grab bar extension idea. No way the inspector will make you redo that many commodes, on carriers for an inch or so.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Grab bars extended out would not be compliant. The measurement is 18" from the "wall". The owners of this facility could be faced with a $55k fine for the first offence. I can see a inspector letting a fraction of a inch go buy since a w/c cl is not marked by the manufacture. Any more than that, I can't see it, especially since it already has their attention. Even using furring strips on the wall would be expensive. If that did not take away required floor space. Bad deal, very bad IMO.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Texas, being the rebels we are, said the feds had no jurisdiction in the matter and adopted our own standard, "Texas Accessibility Standards". That is what Longview goes by ETP. But it is still a flat 18". As a plumbing inspector we did not verify measurement compliance, too much liability. It is the owner of the facility and their reps. responsibility to protect the owner from a potential complaint. No complaint, no problems.



http://www.kpluskassociates.com/Downloads/TAS94.pdf


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> Texas, being the rebels we are, said the feds had no jurisdiction in the matter and adopted our own standard, "Texas Accessibility Standards". That is what Longview goes by ETP. But it is still a flat 18". As a plumbing inspector we did not verify measurement compliance, too much liability. It is the owner of the facility and their reps. responsibility to protect the owner from a potential complaint. No complaint, no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.kpluskassociates.com/Downloads/TAS94.pdf



You couldn't have worded it better. This is not an issue with the county inspectors, it's an issue with the engineers covering their arse for the sake of a potential complaint from the handicap police years down the road.

It's just new to everyone around here. When we put the plumbing in the new panama city airport, yes the "multiple" engineering companies were way more harsh than our "strict" bay county inspector. Yet even they didn't catch or know this "shall be 18 inches" rule.

Makes me want to write the ada website and ask for some love!!Close to what U.A.til.i.die has. I'm all for that "18 to 18 7/8ths inches" Damn it man, at least give us an inch of play.!!!!!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> Texas, being the rebels we are, said the feds had no jurisdiction in the matter and adopted our own standard, "Texas Accessibility Standards". That is what Longview goes by ETP. But it is still a flat 18". As a plumbing inspector we did not verify measurement compliance, too much liability. It is the owner of the facility and their reps. responsibility to protect the owner from a potential complaint. No complaint, no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> SlickRick said:
> 
> 
> > Texas, being the rebels we are, said the feds had no jurisdiction in the matter and adopted our own standard, "Texas Accessibility Standards". That is what Longview goes by ETP. But it is still a flat 18". As a plumbing inspector we did not verify measurement compliance, too much liability. It is the owner of the facility and their reps. responsibility to protect the owner from a potential complaint. No complaint, no problems.
> ...


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

6th Density said:


> Tommy plumber said:
> 
> 
> > Well there again is a whole new can of worms. Why not enforce it if you're an inspector, because every red card creates more revenue from inspection redo's.
> ...


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

What does your code book say?


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

*read it and weep*

http://www.ada.gov/2010ADAstandards_index.htm


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## easttexasplumb (Oct 13, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> Texas, being the rebels we are, said the feds had no jurisdiction in the matter and adopted our own standard, "Texas Accessibility Standards". That is what Longview goes by ETP. But it is still a flat 18". As a plumbing inspector we did not verify measurement compliance, too much liability. It is the owner of the facility and their reps. responsibility to protect the owner from a potential complaint. No complaint, no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.kpluskassociates.com/Downloads/TAS94.pdf


As far as I know, and I could be wrong, the inspectors here dont even check for TAS standards. The state will eventually do there own checks, and then any conflicts, I figure would be between the owner and resposible plumber. I certainaly would hate to have to move that many carriers that would sink this ship for sure.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

grandpa said:


> http://www.ada.gov/2010ADAstandards_index.htm


 



It states 16"-18" from CL of toilet to partition for wheelchair accessibility and 17"-19" for ambulatory access. That was one long, long document. Look under: 2004 ADAAG Chapter 6: Plumbing Elements and Facilities 604.2


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> Texas, being the rebels we are, said the feds had no jurisdiction in the matter and adopted our own standard, "Texas Accessibility Standards". That is what Longview goes by ETP. But it is still a flat 18". As a plumbing inspector we did not verify measurement compliance, too much liability. It is the owner of the facility and their reps. responsibility to protect the owner from a potential complaint. No complaint, no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.kpluskassociates.com/Downloads/TAS94.pdf


I believe in Texas it's the building owner/tenants responsibility to make the call to TAS to do the actual inspection. Or if like in Fort Worth, we have 3rd party inspectors that are also TAS certified. I have a restaurant going right now and the 3rd party Plbg/TAS inspector told the tenant to have me "just install an offset flange" to meet the 18" requirement...BTW, offset flanges are against code in Fort Worth...I refused.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Another thing, Why is it in the TAS regs the only dimension that has no variance is the 18" dimension? What if after the rough is complete the interior designer changes their mind and installs tile instead of FRP? I've argued this and won, but it wasn't easy.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

grandpa said:


> http://www.ada.gov/2010ADAstandards_index.htm


 
That is need to know info. Thanks for the link, I have it saved. :thumbsup:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Another thing, Why is it in the TAS regs the only dimension that has no variance is the 18" dimension? What if after the rough is complete the interior designer changes their mind and installs tile instead of FRP? I've argued this and won, but it wasn't easy.


With the 2010 ADA changes, we may wish we used ADA standards now. :laughing:


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

SlickRick said:


> With the 2010 ADA changes, we may wish we used ADA standards now. :laughing:


Tell me...........


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

It looks to me that 6D's only hope would be to get the architectural plans out, and verify that the wall is in fact where it was shown on the latest prints.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Had to work there on Sunday. Not looking too good. Our overhead is going to fight them. Also got called out on a sorry design wall hung lavatory (carriers). We've got them at 33 1/2 inches aff to flood rim. The apron is at 29 1/2 inches aff and the drain is about 26 1/2 inches aff! Got red carded for being at 26 1/2 inches. What kinda idiot engineers a lavatory where you have no play at all to hit your min. and max.? I don't remember, because never been carded for it, but I though most lavs. give you some play.

Just another eye opener.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

I read thru this and haven't seen how far off you are. Sorry if I missed it.

I know it is a wall mount. I can't fix this one, but I see a possible invention here for the R&D dept. How about a offset toilet why can't a manufacturer cast a toilet that provides a 1 inch or so offset in the china. Just a thought.

Another lesson I learned is never leave a tape measure out in sight.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> Where's Irishplumber's response? Maybe he hasn't sobered up yet.:drink:


Don't be trash talkin' my Irish brethren. We're not a think as you drunk we are..*hicup*. :laughing:


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Don't be trash talkin' my Irish brethren. We're not a think as you drunk we are..*hicup*. :laughing:


 



I'm Italian and Irish. And the italian side of my family had its share of alcoholics. They could hold their own with the irish boozers any day of the week.....:laughing:

When I was a kid, my irish aunt died. After the funeral, my family threw a party. You'd think it was new year's eve.....:drink: Erin go brah.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

gitnerdun said:


> I read thru this and haven't seen how far off you are. Sorry if I missed it.
> 
> I know it is a wall mount. I can't fix this one, but I see a possible invention here for the R&D dept. How about a offset toilet why can't a manufacturer cast a toilet that provides a 1 inch or so offset in the china. Just a thought.
> 
> Another lesson I learned is never leave a tape measure out in sight.


The worst toilet is 19 and 1/2 inches. 75% of them are between 19 inches and 18 3/8 inches. 2 of them are at 17 1/2 inches. 1 is at 18 inches :thumbup:.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

SlickRick said:


> With the 2010 ADA changes, we may wish we used ADA standards now. :laughing:



S0 16 to 18 inches is the new law. Wow, what if these guys decide to change their mind 5 years down the road and it throws your toilet out of standard? It's getting to be ridiculous!!! Lesson learned, throw it on the owner with an hefty extra price for all ada's.


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## Pipe Rat (Apr 5, 2009)

6th where do you see 16 to 18 inches? You guys are all over the place with 17 1/2" - 19 1/2"  thats either crap work or a bust in the plans. From what I can tell 18" is an absolute dimension with tolerance for standard manufacturing and construction tolerances. While not directly stated I would think these tolerances may be 1/4" or so but surely not an 1 1/2" :blink: See below from Grandpa's link page 41 and 42

*104 Conventions*

*104.1 Dimensions.* Dimensions that are not stated as "maximum" or "minimum" are absolute.
*104.1.1 Construction and Manufacturing Tolerances.* All dimensions are subject to conventional industry tolerances except where the requirement is stated as a range with specific minimum and maximum end points. ​


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

*Pipe Rat,*



Tommy plumber said:


> It states 16"-18" from CL of toilet to partition for wheelchair accessibility and 17"-19" for ambulatory access. That was one long, long document. Look under: 2004 ADAAG Chapter 6: Plumbing Elements and Facilities 604.2


 



Evidently, at least according to this document, there is a little wiggle room.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

I hear ya PIPE RAT. This is a big company I work for. I was plumbing at the new airport when this school was pouring slab. The truly sad reality I just learned today was that the contractor actually had the block masons chalk out their lines way before they even set the first block of each blue-print section. Obviously giving them time to check their measurements and move their pipe or double-check if the walls were layed-out right.

But at the same time, I've stumped every supply house and plumber about this topic around here. No one can give me a straight answer on it except for this very fine forum. The inspectors around this area don't even know. One of my old bosses ran into the same issue recently in Tallahassee. The inspector called them out for being 17 1/2 inches off side wall. Again it was a carrier toilet. They had to bust open the wall and move the carrier. If they had this info would they not have a fighting chance?

Glad I know this now. Thanks Plumber Forum:thumbup:


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