# Frozen Pex heating lines



## UnclogNH

Been getting freeze up calls on homes with System 2000 installed
Everyone of them had their heating system repiped with Pex just got off the phone with another one with pex Nothing I can do! Can't use a hot shot on pex. Pex pipe has been a major issue these past couple of day's
anyone else?


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## ZL700

It's not really the pex fault, but where it is located and lack of sufficient heat or protection from the elements. 

I had some freeze once, without bursting, forced me to look for the cold air infiltration and seal it up.


Turn on the heaters


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## easttexasplumb

I thought the water was being recirculated in the system, but what do I know about the cold.


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## PLUMBER_BILL

UnclogNH said:


> Been getting freeze up calls on homes with System 2000 installed
> Everyone of them had their heating system repiped with Pex just got off the phone with another one with pex Nothing I can do! Can't use a hot shot on pex. Pex pipe has been a major issue these past couple of day's
> anyone else?


In 1916 there was no pex ... No hot/shots either. 

Steam em open ... Scroll down to figure 232 This is from Google Books 

Fig. 230 illustrates a plumber's _gasoline furnace, _adapted to heating solder pots and copper bolts. The gasoline supply for the blast passes through _AA, _and is provided with valve _H _and clean-out plug _I. _The lower end of the supply extends nearly to the bottom of the reservoir. The gasoline passes through coil _E, _which is partially
filled with wire, usually a scrap of small wire cable, to prevent flame from running back into the reservoir, and issues from a single small hole at _F, _which is turned so that the flame will impinge on the coil. Air-pressure on top of the gasoline in the reservoir is necessary to make a blast. The air-cock is shown at _G. _For ordinary purposes, sufficient pressure can be obtained by blowing air in the hose at _C _with the lungs; but for a strong blast, a bulb containing check-valves, shown at _J), _is used to increase the pressure. The filling screw is at _B. _
To light the furnace, valve _H _is opened and some of the gasoline allowed to play on the coil, from which it falls back into the bottom of cup _K. _When about two tablespoonfuls have reached the cup, close _H, _and light the gasoline through one _o\ _the holes in _K. _When it has burned out^ the coil will be hot enough to vaporize the gasoline as it passes through it; and a gas instead of a liquid then issues from _F _in the form of a blast, which increases in intensity as _E _becomes hotter. Any tendency to produce more gas than necessary merely








Rubber Bulb

Fig. 230. Plumber's Gasoline Furnace.









Increases the pressure and the force of the blast. The strength of the blast can be regulated by valve _H. _As the air is forced into the reservoir above the gasoline, one pumping keeps the furnace in working order until the lowering of the gasoline level has provided so much room that the pressure of the expanded air is not sufficient to maintain fhe blast. Then it becomes necessary to pump in more air, or to replenish the gasoline and again establish the pressure over it as described.
Fig. 231 is a _blast torch _used by plumbers for warming .large joints, melting off old joints, heating soil-pipe hubs, thawing frozen water-pipe, etc. The principle of operation is the same as that of the furnace. _A _is a hand-pump for establishing the air-pressure; _B, _the air-pipe; and C, the air-cock connecting the pump to the top of the reservoir _G. D _is the filling screw, and _H _the supply valve to burner. The gas issues from a single orifice within the hood _F. _£ is a gasoline cup used to heat the burner in order to start the blast, and corresponds to cup _K _of the furnace.
The _thawing steamer, _Fig. 232, is made of heavy copper and adapted to fit the bowl of a plumber's blast furnace. _A _is the safetyvalve, _D _the reservoir, and B the valve connecting with the steam space. For use, the reservoir is filled about three-quarters full of water, and heated to steaming point. The steam is conveyed through a hose _C, _and injected into the end of the frozen pipe. As the ice melts and the water flows out, the hose is pushed further and further

Pig. 231. Plumber's Blast Torch.









Fig. 232. Thawing Steamer.


into the pipe, until the ice is all melted out of the frozen portion. This is an admirable way to thaw water-pipe frozen underground, within partition walls, and in other inaccessible places.
There are numerous other tools used by the trade, not only peculiar to the plumber's needs, but used also in common by workmen in other lines. All the data necessary concerning them can be had by reference to catalogues.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

S.O.L. when PEX freezes.


Plumbers become more helpless than the customers calling because no one knows where the lines are frozen. 

In this particular case, do you think people are not going to be concerned that if and when the thaw does come, where is the spot that keeps freezing up and how do you correct the problem location(s)? 


You don't.


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## UnclogNH

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> S.O.L. when PEX freezes.
> 
> 
> Plumbers become more helpless than the customers calling because no one knows where the lines are frozen.
> 
> In this particular case, do you think people are not going to be concerned that if and when the thaw does come, where is the spot that keeps freezing up and how do you correct the problem location(s)?
> 
> 
> You don't.


S.O.L about sums it up Dunbar:yes:. Not much you can do? :no:
Well the temps are going way up into the 20's today :laughing:


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## UnclogNH

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> In 1916 there was no pex ... No hot/shots either.
> 
> Steam em open ... Scroll down to figure 232 This is from Google Books


Thanks Bill but I don't think I'm going to build a steamer any time soon.
Problem is the Pex is all in the floors and ceilings.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

UnclogNH said:


> S.O.L about sums it up Dunbar:yes:. Not much you can do? :no:
> Well the temps are going way up into the 20's today :laughing:


 
We're hovering at freezing, which feels like a heat wave compared to last week.


I can't make money when I'm telling the customer, "turn the heat up!" 


They won't let me sit around and charge with the heat up either, and then I'm supposed to do exploratory opening of the walls, looking for frozen piping?

That won't happen. 

The charge levelled for the time will instantly become a sore spot for them, as I'm not hands on fixing the issue.


Every time I get in this boat, you can tell it hurts to pay that money. I try to lessen the blow but they are still torn on the charge.

Give me something to fix, I'll be on my way and you have running water. Exactly what they want.


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## vinpadalino

Not yet. Last year I had one. I love homes that are frozen!


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## UnclogNH

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> We're hovering at freezing, which feels like a heat wave compared to last week.
> 
> 
> I can't make money when I'm telling the customer, "turn the heat up!"
> 
> 
> They won't let me sit around and charge with the heat up either, and then I'm supposed to do exploratory opening of the walls, looking for frozen piping?
> 
> That won't happen.
> 
> The charge levelled for the time will instantly become a sore spot for them, as I'm not hands on fixing the issue.
> 
> 
> Every time I get in this boat, you can tell it hurts to pay that money. I try to lessen the blow but they are still torn on the charge.
> 
> Give me something to fix, I'll be on my way and you have running water. Exactly what they want.


 
Best I have been able to come up with is tell them is close the door in the area that may be frozen and heat room with a space heater Get it nice and warm. Plus turn up the heat
I hear you I'm not about to start ripping down walls and ceilings. 
From some of the feed back from customers other companies have been giving the same advice and answers S.O.L


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## PLUMBER_BILL

UnclogNH said:


> Thanks Bill but I don't think I'm going to build a steamer any time soon.
> Problem is the Pex is all in the floors and ceilings.


In reality perhaps infloor/ceiling radiant should be designed in vunerble locations as a constant circulation system. I would take a lot longer to freeze with moving water. On a call for heat the boiler temperature would start adding BTU'S to the system until satisfied. I would be interesting to see how it would be piped. One way would be a bypass from return to feed manifold with a motorized valve in the bypass. When the thermostat satisfies Valve would open and circulation could continue.


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## UnclogNH

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> In reality perhaps infloor/ceiling radiant should be designed in vunerble locations as a constant circulation system. I would take a lot longer to freeze with moving water. On a call for heat the boiler temperature would start adding BTU'S to the system until satisfied. I would be interesting to see how it would be piped. One way would be a bypass from return to feed manifold with a motorized valve in the bypass. When the thermostat satisfies Valve woud open and circulation could continue.


The main reason is poor insulation in all these older homes people will install new heating systems and not insulate. :no:
I'm sure I'll find all the frozen areas after it thaws and leaks:yes:


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## vinpadalino

UnclogNH said:


> Been getting freeze up calls on homes with System 2000 installed
> Everyone of them had their heating system repiped with Pex just got off the phone with another one with pex Nothing I can do! Can't use a hot shot on pex. Pex pipe has been a major issue these past couple of day's
> anyone else?


I've got a bunch of freeze ups because everyone is using there stoves instead of there hot water baseboard.


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## UnclogNH

vinpadalino said:


> I've got a bunch of freeze ups because everyone is using there stoves instead of there hot water baseboard.


Heating oil is way up again $3.30 a gallon and still going up.


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## Protech

Can't you just bring in some heaters and heat the entire structure? Once thawed, won't the building's native heating system keep the lines thawed?

I don't understand what the big problem is.


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## Redwood

Protech said:


> Can't you just bring in some heaters and heat the entire structure? Once thawed, won't the building's native heating system keep the lines thawed?
> 
> I don't understand what the big problem is.


The big problem is the System 2000 is a steel boiler so they probably used PEX-AL-PEX which has probably the least resistance to freeze damage out of all the types of PEX. Also a lot of these lines are going to be concealed and difficult to get heat to...


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## Protech

Well at least you can do a line trace on pex/al/pex.

Seems like if you heat the house to 100+ degrees the heat should penetrate everything inside the building envelope with a few hours. You will need a heater with some ballz though :laughing:



Redwood said:


> The big problem is the System 2000 is a steel boiler so they probably used PEX-AL-PEX which has probably the least resistance to freeze damage out of all the types of PEX. Also a lot of these lines are going to be concealed and difficult to get heat to...


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## Redwood

Protech said:


> Well at least you can do a line trace on pex/al/pex.
> 
> Seems like if you heat the house to 100+ degrees the heat should penetrate everything inside the building envelope with a few hours. You will need a heater with some ballz though :laughing:


Come on up...

We'll show you those southern freezes aren't jack...

A house losing its heating system in a climate that isn't going to see a thaw until March or April is a bigger deal than you are thinking....

When you walk around the house and every outside wall looks like this... It's not good...


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## Protech

No thanks, I'll stick to picking citrus and making sweet alcoholic beverages in shorts :thumbup:



Redwood said:


> Come on up...
> 
> We'll show you those southern freezes aren't jack...
> 
> A house losing its heating system in a climate that isn't going to see a thaw until March or April is a bigger deal than you are thinking....
> 
> When you walk around the house and every outside wall looks like this... It's not good...


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## Master Mark

*a salamander*

the peex is not the problem...its the dumb ass builder that did not insualte the home properly in the first place...

its almost like you need to throw a tarp over the whole home to keep the wind from blowing in all the cracks...

the only thing that has a chance to work is a kerosene 
salamander throwing heat throughout the home in hopes of heating it up ....

if you could throw super heater steam into the rafters from some sort of steam jetter
that would be the ideal tool for this sort of thing....

someone needs to make a steam jetter with a long probe to reach back into 
pipes with a probe and blast them with steam... its the only thing that would
work in overhead ceilings///




I just wont fool with this stuff anymore... 
no matter what we do , we look like the bad guys after
 tearing out drywall everywhere looking for leaks

our minimun to walk in the door is $275.... 
that usually puts a bind in their shorts.


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## vinpadalino

A friend of mine was at a freeze up call. He spent part of the day there. He couldn't thaw the pipes out. Ne found out there was a piece of pex going from one bedroom to another bedroom. After cutting Sheetrock they found this and he was pissed.


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## UnclogNH

vinpadalino said:


> A friend of mine was at a freeze up call. He spent part of the day there. He couldn't thaw the pipes out. Ne found out there was a piece of pex going from one bedroom to another bedroom. After cutting Sheetrock they found this and he was pissed.


This has been a problem too finding they used pex as a section repair 
had a frozen line from the bathroom lav hot water line and shower hot water line was pex in the wall. got lucky found it was able to open the wall via screws and got it with my wife's hair dryer :laughing:


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## Phat Cat

Unclog - I hope you are checking back with the HO's that have frozen pipes. Sounds like a great opportunity to establish a relationship and get future work. It is the absolute cheapest marketing you can do. :thumbup:

"Hello Mrs. Jones, I'm just calling to check on how you are making out with your frozen piping. . . Sorry to hear that, I will check back with you tomorrow. If they open up before that, please call and let me know. I have a lot of customers in the same situation and I am closely monitoring it. After they thaw, I strongly recommend scheduling a visit to determine the best way to prevent this from happening to you again."


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