# Rough In Height



## 22rifle

Lav water = 21" on 8" centers.

Lav drain = 19"

Toilet water = 6" off center and 6" high

KS water = 21" on 8" centers.

KS drain = 15"

Laundry Tub water = 12" on 8" centers

Laundry Tub drain = 12"

Washer Box = top at 42."

Icemaker Box = top at 18."

How about you? (To answer, quote this and change the numbers for yourself.)


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## Song Dog

22rifle said:


> Lav water = 21" on 8" centers-or 6" cntr
> 
> Lav drain = 19"
> 
> Toilet water = 6" off center and 7" high
> 
> KS water = 21" on 8" centers- or 6" cntr
> 
> KS drain = 15" - 19"
> 
> Laundry Tub water = 14" on 8" centers- or 6" cntr
> 
> Laundry Tub drain = 12"
> 
> Washer Box = top at 42"
> 
> Icemaker Box = top at 18"/I at times put a T off the cold under Ksink so the ho (wife) can get to it in cas of emergency
> 
> How about you? (To answer, quote this and change the numbers for yourself.)


Thats what I rough when I do new-I just had a guy I did work for in the era I did new, call and wants me to do one-YUK

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## user4

22rifle said:


> Lav water = Exactly as speced by mfr.
> Lav drain = Exatly as speced by the mfr.
> 
> Toilet water = Exactly as speced by the mfr.
> 
> KS water = 15' unless it is a wall mounted faucet
> 
> KS drain = 12" max
> 
> Laundry Tub water = In the guy grey box.
> 
> Laundry Tub drain =
> 
> Washer Box = wherever the designer or architect specs it
> 
> Icemaker Box = no box, 1/4 line stubbed out above finished floor height
> 
> How about you? (To answer, quote this and change the numbers for yourself.)


There you go.


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## 22rifle

Killertoiletspider said:


> There you go.


You play in a different world than I do!


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## user4

22rifle said:


> You play in a different world than I do!


Most of the lavs we install are either pedestals or console tables, the roughs have to be right, especially on the console tables, because they almost always get a bottle trap that has no side to side adjustment in it. Most of the kitchen sinks we install are undermounted SS 10-12 inches deep, with a Franke garbage disposal on it, the KS waste can be to low, but if it is to high we have big problems. Oh, and icemaker hookups on Sub-Zero fridges is in the front, so the line has to go under the fridge, if you use a box the line always gets kinked behind the firdge.


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## Ron

22rifle said:


> Toilet water = 6" off center and 6" high
> 
> 
> 
> How about you? (To answer, quote this and change the numbers for yourself.)


Toilet water 6" up 7"

All others same.


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## 22rifle

Killertoiletspider said:


> Most of the lavs we install are either pedestals or console tables, the roughs have to be right, especially on the console tables, because they almost always get a bottle trap that has no side to side adjustment in it. Most of the kitchen sinks we install are undermounted SS 10-12 inches deep, with a Franke garbage disposal on it, the KS waste can be to low, but if it is to high we have big problems. Oh, and icemaker hookups on Sub-Zero fridges is in the front, so the line has to go under the fridge, if you use a box the line always gets kinked behind the firdge.


I love hearing about your kind of work. Thanks for sharing.


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## user4

22rifle said:


> I love hearing about your kind of work. Thanks for sharing.


At the end of the day it is all the same work, mine is sometimes more tedious than yours, but you will get yours done faster.


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## 22rifle

Killertoiletspider said:


> At the end of the day it is all the same work, mine is sometimes more tedious than yours, but you will get yours done faster.


Actually, my favorite work has much more in common with what you do but mostly because I make it so. Vastly different but a higher level of craftsmanship involved than rough in the pluming on a 2 bath house.


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## A Good Plumber

I almost always rough the water to a toilet at 6" up and 8" off center. The reason for 8" off center is cuz the customer may decide they want a toilet with a "skirted" bowl and with a 8" rough you can't go wrong.


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## vermaraj

Are you guys getting much call for bath vanities 4" taller than standard and elevated washer/dryers? 

Does it change your roughs or do you make it up on trim out?

Pretty much all of our bathrooms now are 4"+ and all washers are 14-16" off the deck on a shelf with drawers.


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## GrumpyPlumber

*I pretty much use the same dimensions, except on KS..I like to keep the drain as low as possible, our code requires 12-15 inches and I like to allow room for play when there's a disposal with double basin...usually I'll go for 13.*

*As for laundries, exact same as you @ 42"...but I like to give the customer a say for three reasons, they feel good you asked them, they can't blame you if they don't like the finished height, they know much better than you whats going where...you never know if they have plans to prop a shelf above, or if they'd like options to move the washer later.*
*Mindful that my coide requires a min 18"- max 28" tailpiece with a min inlet height of 31" from the base of the machine.*

*Toilets I like 7" above ff to ensure I'm above even the widest baseboard trims...I like them offest left of the the actual toilet feed to make it easier to slightly offset chrome plated feeds if the customer prefers them over braided (I prefer braided)...slightly harder to to line up & cut the feed when it's a perfect striaght shot on the chrome ones, you can bend an offset into the chrome, then swing in into the toilet stub once it's in the 3/8" comp stop outlet.*

*On Pedastils I go 21" off FF, I used to go 18" for vanities but when you have a changeout to a pedastil down the road the higher drain is nice for Washington traps.*


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## masterk

I have been roughing in the wc water lines about 8" 
The 6"-6 1/2'' base board has made a come back.


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## WestCoastPlumber

22rifle said:


> Lav water = 21" on 8" centers
> 
> Lav drain = 19"
> 
> Toilet water = 6" off center and 6" high
> 
> KS water = 21" on 8" centers
> 
> KS drain = 15"
> 
> Laundry Tub water = 12" on 8" centers
> 
> Laundry Tub drain = 12"
> 
> Washer Box = top at 42"
> 
> Icemaker Box = top at 18"
> 
> How about you? (To answer, quote this and change the numbers for yourself.)


I do everything the same, except the k/s, I do at 14, and about 18-20 on the waters, when the water stubs are to close, the faucet pull hose gets all tangled in it.



Killertoiletspider said:


> Most of the lavs we install are either pedestals or console tables, the roughs have to be right, especially on the console tables, because they almost always get a bottle trap that has no side to side adjustment in it. Most of the kitchen sinks we install are undermounted SS 10-12 inches deep, with a Franke garbage disposal on it, the KS waste can be to low, but if it is to high we have big problems. Oh, and icemaker hookups on Sub-Zero fridges is in the front, so the line has to go under the fridge, if you use a box the line always gets kinked behind the firdge.


This is very true, high end work sucks, I just finished a sub zero and ped lavs, hate it, takes twice as long because if your like me you measure like 20 times over.



A Good Plumber said:


> I almost always rough the water to a toilet at 6" up and 8" off center. The reason for 8" off center is cuz the customer may decide they want a toilet with a "skirted" bowl and with a 8" rough you can't go wrong.


I just had this happen, a customer wanted to install 4 skirted toilets, to hide the traps, because they are easier to clean....until she changed her mind about the damage to her walls and customer paint.


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## gear junkie

I'm pretty much the same as the OP but if I'm dealing with a lavoratory, I'll wait till it's onsite or I can see measure it to get my rough in right. The offset drawers can throw you off.


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## elvisman06

A Good Plumber said:


> I almost always rough the water to a toilet at 6" up and 8" off center. The reason for 8" off center is cuz the customer may decide they want a toilet with a "skirted" bowl and with a 8" rough you can't go wrong.


 
What if its a 1 piece toilet,,, how high should you go up?


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## user4

WestCoastPlumber said:


> This is very true, high end work sucks, I just finished a sub zero and ped lavs, hate it, takes twice as long because if your like me you measure like 20 times over.


I like doing high end work, but I use a line laser to make my measurements easy, set the line up vertically on center and your measurements off center are a snap, or set it for horizontal at the height you want the center line of your control valves at, and bam, you always have a clear point to measure from. High end work is more tedious and time consuming, but if it was easy everyone would want to do it.


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## user4

elvisman06 said:


> What if its a 1 piece toilet,,, how high should you go up?


Exactly where the mfr. specs say it should be.


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## Ron

elvisman06 said:


> What if its a 1 piece toilet,,, how high should you go up?


Hi, please tell us a little about yourself, an introduction about yourself would be nice.


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## WestCoastPlumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> I like doing high end work, but I use a line laser to make my measurements easy, set the line up vertically on center and your measurements off center are a snap, or set it for horizontal at the height you want the center line of your control valves at, and bam, you always have a clear point to measure from. High end work is more tedious and time consuming, but if it was easy everyone would want to do it.


 

this is a good idea, I for some reason have not thought of this...:brows:

interesting how something so easy can be so far from the brain...........


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## I'mYourTourGuide

Try doing the underground on an elementary school. . .

3 types of sewerage.

Kitchen, Sanitary, and Storm.

Then you got back-venting, putting wall mount fixture carriers together, domestic water lines, and then finally set fixtures. .

It can get kinda crazy sometimes, lol

Glad I was just a "work-hand" then, lol

14 month long job ;\


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## Herk

When I was doing housing, I preferred to have the waterlines in the floor. I suppose that's because of having to rip out walls to get to an elbow when the stub got broken off. 

Of course, that won't work well with pedestals. If I know there's a pedestal instead of a cabinet, I usually ask for the fixture or at least rough-in measurements so I don't wind up in trouble. Too often a customer will buy a pedestal without realizing that the drain is too low and the trap won't fit. I have sometimes cured this situation by getting a different pedestal for the sink with a back that's open all the way down.

But bringing water lines up out of the floor makes any repair easier and also uses fewer fittings to install. 4" from the plate. 

Another change is that a lot of bathroom counters used to be 30" but now they're often 31". I usually allow enough room for most sinks by using 17" off the plate for kitchens and 16" off the plate for basin drains. (I measure off the plate because you're usually marking a hole for a dirty arm in the center of a stud.)

When I do come out of the wall, I usually put my water lines about 2" above the drain stub.


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## HonestPlumb

A Good Plumber- I was waiting to post those same dimensions, exactly for the reason you stated. When you rough the water less than 8" from center you may have an issue with a skirted toilet. Toto is famous for that. You pretty much can be assured that the 8" off center will be safe. I understand the others wanting to be close and tight for esthetics, but when the shut off is coming out of the floor at 6" center on a skirted one, your usually in trouble. When your coming out of the wall, the shut off will have to be smashed up against the wall. Obviously knowing beforehand what is going in is the key. How many times have you done the rough with out knowing it ?


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## HonestPlumb

user4- I agree. Most of my work tends to be high end as well. Mostly 1/2 Million and up additions and bath and kitchen renovations starting in the $30K and up for baths and $60K and up for kitchens (of course these are not plumbing only prices). We did do a $250K kitchen a while back. Lady did not cook !! God's honest truth. All for show. But yes I have OCD and like everything dead on symetrical, level,plumb and straight. I don't know how old most of you are, but quite a while back like in the 80's and 90's, in my area everyone was putting in pedestals, some time side by side. They all had a cut out in the porcelain in the back. I learned the hard way never to take a designer's,showroom salesperson's or anyone's for that matter, dimension on the height of that porcelain back !! Go to finish and the trap is a half inch to low !! Either wanted the pedestal physically or a sheet with the spec's. Not for where the manufacturer said to put the drain, but where that porcelain cut out height was ! Just changing from 1 1/2' trap to 1 1/4' trap saved the day before. Other times, the tools would 
fly !!!!. Because I took someone's word as far as the dimensions.


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## mccmech

Honest Plumb, while the topic is always timely, since we're always curious what other plumbers do, you are talking to ghosts with yer responses. All those posts were from 2008. Again, the topic is very cool, so please don't think me a jerk for pointing out the age of the thread.


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## plumber tim

I know this thread is in the residential area but here are some common rough in diamentions for commercial 
ADA urinal 14" for drain 27" for water 4-5/8" to the the left side from center of drain. 
ADA lav 21" drain 18" off side wall 24" for water


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## Plumbus

Consult the elevations. If that doesn't work, send off an RFI. Put the responsibility where it belongs, on their shoulders. What makes sense to you, find something else to do or rip it out and do it again?


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## PLUMB TIME

looking at the first two pages was a walk down memory lane


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## markb

22rifle said:


> Lav water = 2" above drain on 8" centers
> 
> Lav drain = 22-24 (Due to drawers and thin floating vanities. Got tired of having to cut out the bottom of the cabinet to made room for my trap)
> 
> Toilet water = 9" off, 3-6" high (Depending on basebaord. We are having people install recessed 4" tall baseboards now. Installed before drywall and ends up flush with drywall. Ends up being an issue). 9"off looks odd with a standard economical toilet, but its not worth the aggravation when a regular toilet it spec'd and they choose a skirted Duravit or Toto last minute. "Joist was in the way, had no choice" is always tried and true excuse.
> 
> Toilet flange rough in - 13.5" from wall. Between skirted toilets, 4' x 10' marble floor to ceiling slabs behind the toilet and raised panel wainscoting. 12.5" ri has caused too many problems.
> 
> KS water = Generally out of the floor (kitchens are either on an outside wall or island here. Bars get stubbed out 2" higher and 8"cl on drain location"
> 
> KS drain = 15"
> 
> Laundry Tub water = 12" on 8" centers
> 
> Laundry Tub drain = 12"
> 
> Washer Box = 44" to bottom
> 
> Icemaker Box = dont install those here, just stub our water pipe out of the floor and have an isolation valve in the mechanical room with all the other valves.
> 
> How about you? (To answer, quote this and change the numbers for yourself.)


90 percent high end homes. These are my standard measurements, but always ask for final vanity drawings before stubbing anything out now. Drawers, floating vanities, furniture turned into a fixture etc always changes things.


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## RichinTN

22rifle said:


> Lav water = 21" on 8" centers
> 
> Lav drain = 19"
> 
> Toilet water = 6" off center and 6" high
> 
> KS water = 21" on 8" centers
> 
> KS drain = 15"
> 
> Laundry Tub water = 12" on 8" centers
> 
> Laundry Tub drain = 12"
> 
> Washer Box = top at 42"
> 
> Icemaker Box = top at 18"
> 
> How about you? (To answer, quote this and change the numbers for yourself.)


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## RichinTN

Hello -- I am newbee here! I realize this post has been started way back on the "way-back machine" but I liked what I saw and it begged for me to ask a question or two --- We are planning a new home and one of the plumbing items will be a under-mount laundry sink that is 12-inches deep. It is not a huge sink, just 21x18 and will be under-mounted to a solid countertop inside a 24-inch standard base cabinet height of 35 inch -- so with the 1 inch solid top it will be 36. So the sink top is at 35 inches then drops down 12 inches to where the drain starts. Using a 1-1/2 drain and P-trap. I tried to find the average depth of a P-Trap and they seem to run "about 4.75 to a little over 5 inches". 

Now to have a tail piece added in just "where abouts" should the ROUGH-IN 1-1/2" PVC be located in the stud wall measured from the finished floor? And if you would be so gracious, suggest where the water lines would be. Also, is it BEST to offset the rough-in and NOT have it centered? I have ran into issues where the rough-in is directly behind the drain and the P-trap does not line up.

Thanks (sorry I got a bit long winded?)


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## OpenSights

RichinTN said:


> Hello -- I am newbee here! I realize this post has been started way back on the "way-back machine" but I liked what I saw and it begged for me to ask a question or two --- We are planning a new home and one of the plumbing items will be a under-mount laundry sink that is 12-inches deep. It is not a huge sink, just 21x18 and will be under-mounted to a solid countertop inside a 24-inch standard base cabinet height of 35 inch -- so with the 1 inch solid top it will be 36. So the sink top is at 35 inches then drops down 12 inches to where the drain starts. Using a 1-1/2 drain and P-trap. I tried to find the average depth of a P-Trap and they seem to run "about 4.75 to a little over 5 inches".
> 
> Now to have a tail piece added in just "where abouts" should the ROUGH-IN 1-1/2" PVC be located in the stud wall measured from the finished floor? And if you would be so gracious, suggest where the water lines would be. Also, is it BEST to offset the rough-in and NOT have it centered? I have ran into issues where the rough-in is directly behind the drain and the P-trap does not line up.
> 
> Thanks (sorry I got a bit long winded?)











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## sparky

Always rough your lavatory drains in at 21" aff,if you rough in any lower you will either have to use a longer threaded tailpiece or a slip tailpiece,at 21" the trap will fit perfect with the 4" tailpiece that comes with the po plug


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## chonkie

sparky said:


> Always rough your lavatory drains in at 21" aff,if you rough in any lower you will either have to use a longer threaded tailpiece or a slip tailpiece,at 21" the trap will fit perfect with the 4" tailpiece that comes with the po plug


Phuck that. We used to try that but then HOs would get special sh!t without telling anyone and that made the ptrap too high. Go lower and why really care about needing to use a slip joint extension.


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## Lickitlikeafritter

chonkie said:


> Phuck that. We used to try that but then HOs would get special sh!t without telling anyone and that made the ptrap too high. Go lower and why really care about needing to use a slip joint extension.


Second this opinion. It’s worth using 20 double sided tailpiece extensions if you don’t have to cut one cabinet or wall apart on trim.


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## OpenSights

I prefer bringing the drain up through the floor. AAVs are legal here. Only thing I need to be concerned with is drawers.


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## Plumbus

Best to refer to the bathroom interior elevations. One area of danger is the wall thickness behind the wc. If they play to put wainscoting, tile or stone on the wall, the toilet stub better be more than 12-1/2" off rough wall.


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## Logtec

Replacing standard toilets with “Skirted” or “concealed trap” toilets can be a headache if the water line is coming up through the floor. These toilets are very popular right now, and a beeatch to install- in general. 

Also “deep sinks” or “farm sinks” are all the rage right now, by the time you add the basket strainer, the drains original rough in height is to high, and it’s a impossible or b1tch to lower the drain once the cabinet/counter and sink are in.

I’m surprised these high end kitchen designers still don’t take this into consideration for either of these upgrades yet… then the client b1tche’s at us cuz we can’t fit/install the fixtures or drains.


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## sparky

chonkie said:


> Phuck that. We used to try that but then HOs would get special sh!t without telling anyone and that made the ptrap too high. Go lower and why really care about needing to use a slip joint extension.


If that happens we just build a trap


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## sparky

Lickitlikeafritter said:


> Second this opinion. It’s worth using 20 double sided tailpiece extensions if you don’t have to cut one cabinet or wall apart on trim.


If they get crap that wasn't what they advised then it's all extra to redo all of it if necessary bit most times we just build a trap


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## sparky

Plumbus said:


> Best to refer to the bathroom interior elevations. One area of danger is the wall thickness behind the wc. If they play to put wainscoting, tile or stone on the wall, the toilet stub better be more than 12-1/2" off rough wall.


I


OpenSights said:


> I prefer bringing the drain up through the floor. AAVs are legal here. Only thing I need to be concerned with is drawers.


illegal in Ky to bring thru floor,each fixture has to have individual vent


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## Tommy plumber

I have been roughing-in waste arms {lavs and kitchens} at 17" for years. I like that height. Water lines come out at 21"

I usually run hot water lines at 23" and cold at 19" this way I dont have to jump the cold over the hot to drop down for a toilet. Just point the cold 'tee' down with a 12" piece of pipe and BAM! my toilet stub out is at 6" off the floor.


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