# Bought my first Rheem water heater from Home Depot.



## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

There is a lot of water heater flue's that look like this in some of the older neighborhoods I work in. Had to put in a short water heater and being on Saturday the customer did not want to wait until Monday for the AO Smith.

Go to HD and buy a 40 gallon Rheem. It was on the top shelf in one of the busiest stores in Kansas City so I had to wait a little while. Got it back to the house and opened it up to find two dents in the bottom of the tank. 

It was half a day wasted day since I then had to return the tank back to HD. Oh well, at least we will be installing an AO Smith instead of a Rheem.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

Cust paying for all the wasted time?


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I probably won't be able to charge the guy any extra. We had discussed the price over the phone which was a mistake. Good reason not to give prices over the phone.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

plumberkc said:


> There is a lot of water heater flue's that look like this in some of the older neighborhoods I work in. Had to put in a short water heater and being on Saturday the customer did not want to wait until Monday for the AO Smith.
> 
> Go to HD and buy a 40 gallon Rheem. It was on the top shelf in one of the busiest stores in Kansas City so I had to wait a little while. Got it back to the house and opened it up to find two dents in the bottom of the tank.
> 
> It was half a day wasted day since I then had to return the tank back to HD. Oh well, at least we will be installing an AO Smith instead of a Rheem.


From what I've seen yesterday, your customer won't see an advantage of going with A O Smith over the Rheem.

I did the same yesterday, customer went and picked up a Rheem 50 Nat. Gas, no dents and needless to say I was impressed with it. I couldn't visibly see or find a flammable vapor sensor on the unit. It also had a Watts relief valve as opposed the Cash Acme crap you see on A O Smith. It's getting sad when a retailer like Home Depot can sell a water heater cheaper than a wholesale supplier. The heater had nice slotted holes to fasten the vent bonnet also, you don't see that on A O Smith. The intake screens in the combustion chamber look like they would stay cleaner longer and would be easier to clean, time will tell.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Titletownplumbr said:


> From what I've seen yesterday, your customer won't see an advantage of going with A O Smith over the Rheem.
> 
> I did the same yesterday, customer went and picked up a Rheem 50 Nat. Gas, no dents and needless to say I was impressed with it. I couldn't visibly see or find a flammable vapor sensor on the unit. It also had a Watts relief valve as opposed the Cash Acme crap you see on A O Smith. It's getting sad when a retailer like Home Depot can sell a water heater cheaper than a wholesale supplier. The heater had nice slotted holes to fasten the vent bonnet also, you don't see that on A O Smith. The intake screens in the combustion chamber look like they would stay cleaner longer and would be easier to clean, time will tell.


 Never had Rheem/Rchmond water heater vent plugged up like AOSh!t or Whrilpizzl brands..


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Titletownplumbr said:


> From what I've seen yesterday, your customer won't see an advantage of going with A O Smith over the Rheem.
> 
> I did the same yesterday, customer went and picked up a Rheem 50 Nat. Gas, no dents and needless to say I was impressed with it. I couldn't visibly see or find a flammable vapor sensor on the unit. It also had a Watts relief valve as opposed the Cash Acme crap you see on A O Smith. It's getting sad when a retailer like Home Depot can sell a water heater cheaper than a wholesale supplier. The heater had nice slotted holes to fasten the vent bonnet also, you don't see that on A O Smith. The intake screens in the combustion chamber look like they would stay cleaner longer and would be easier to clean, time will tell.





the Rheem will probably never need to be cleaned of lint... We have never had one problem since 2004 with lint.. 

The smith and state is another story...

The rheem heater appears to have a honey -well valve thermostat on it... I have not seen that in these parts yet and I really dont care for the crappy " thermopile design"

Our wholesaler in town is truely pissed off at Rheem for doing this to them....selling out to home depot,,,, and selling the product for about what the plumber can buy it for.... now the only thing the supplier actually has that cannot be bought elsewhere are commercial heaters... and they know that a lot of folks will try to get free parts from them or another heater when HD does not have them in stock......

Loking at the rheem heater with that honey well valve on it, I think it wont hold up as well as the standard thermostats I am getting on my rheem units....


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

That's what our wholesale is carrying, Rheem, and I've been doing them for a few years. I really like them. Haven't had any issues except for one, where I had to go help another guy out. He installed the tank and couldn't keep it fired. We finally discovered "the vial". If there's a problem in the combustion chamber (or rough handling during shipping, I've only seen it once and have installed a lot of these tanks) the vial breaks and closes damper for fresh air to unit. In the US you can get replacement vials, in Canada at the time we could only get a new water heater.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

The Rheem at HD has a different model number than the wholesale tank. I'm sure HD is having them do something different to save a few bucks on each tank. Things like a plastic drain valve tell you that they are building this thing cheap and it won't last 12 years. Home Depot sells knock off fixtures with Chinese made cartridges under the Delta & Moen brand. What makes you think they are providing a high quality water heater?


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Coolcanuck said:


> That's what our wholesale is carrying, Rheem


They may want to reconsider that, the industry is changing. They will need to adjust to the market and make a strategic decision that will benefit the wholesale industry as a whole.


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

plumberkc said:


> The Rheem at HD has a different model number than the wholesale tank.
> 
> I'm sure HD is having them do something different to save a few bucks on each tank. Things like a plastic drain valve tell you that they are building this thing cheap and it won't last 12 years.
> 
> Home Depot sells knock off fixtures with Chinese made cartridges. What makes you think they are providing a high quality water heater?


Ya, I can't speak on the quality of the home cheapo rheem, have not installed those. I do like the Rheems from the wholesale, much better than the John woods of latter years.


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

plumberkc said:


> They may want to reconsider that, the industry is changing. They will need to adjust to the market and make a strategic decision that will benefit the wholesale industry as a whole.


I often get customers commenting on the cost of parts I install. I point out the inferior quality of DIY stores compare to what I put in as well as warranty I provide and cost of carrying stock. Most people here get it.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> the Rheem will probably never need to be cleaned of lint... We have never had one problem since 2004 with lint.. The smith and state is another story... The rheem heater appears to have a honey -well valve thermostat on it... I have not seen that in these parts yet and I really dont care for the crappy " thermopile design" Our wholesaler in town is truely pissed off at Rheem for doing this to them....selling out to home depot,,,, and selling the product for about what the plumber can buy it for.... now the only thing the supplier actually has that cannot be bought elsewhere are commercial heaters... and they know that a lot of folks will try to get free parts from them or another heater when HD does not have them in stock...... Loking at the rheem heater with that honey well valve on it, I think it wont hold up as well as the standard thermostats I am getting on my rheem units....


I know you install Rheem and are going to defend them but the tank sold at HD is not the same Rheem tank that you have been installing over the last several years.

Does this mean you will start buying your water heaters from HD?


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## 504Plumber (Jan 26, 2011)

The vials on rheem heaters will pop quite often if they're in a laundry room. I've seen the sides caked with lint but that isn't where they get air from.

When the vial pops a door on the bottom of the heater pops up and kills any oxygen from getting in. The only place to get replacement vials is from rheem direct, have to order them and wait. There is a way to rig the door down while you wait for the part however.


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

plumberkc said:


> The Rheem at HD has a different model number than the wholesale tank. I'm sure HD is having them do something different to save a few bucks on each tank. Things like a plastic drain valve tell you that t*hey are building this thing cheap and it won't last 12 years. * Home Depot sells knock off fixtures with Chinese made cartridges under the Delta & Moen brand. What makes you think they are providing a* high quality water heater?*


You make mention in your first post that at least your customer will be getting an A O Smith, I don't see that as an advantage at all any more. I've been installing A O Smith for 28 years and their quality is nothing to brag about. I've seen alot of their heaters fail just outside of warranty, not to mention their first series of FVIR junk they came out with.


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## Plumbdog (Jan 27, 2009)

just saw a flyer in the supply house that their switching to Rudd. Any of you guys have much experience with the Rudd heaters?
Also I am sure alot of the initial water heaters that make there way to HD will be stock that Rheem had in their warehouses and the quality will change for the worse as they spec WH specifically for HD.


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Titletownplumbr said:


> You make mention in your first post that at least your customer will be getting an A O Smith, I don't see that as an advantage at all any more. I've been installing A O Smith for 28 years and their quality is nothing to brag about. I've seen alot of their heaters fail just outside of warranty, not to mention their first series of FVIR junk they came out with.


 AO Smith has definitely had their share of issues but it's nothing compared the GE and Whirlpool.


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## stecar (Mar 18, 2012)

I install AO, prob about 30 a month. I like them


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

Plumbdog said:


> just saw a flyer in the supply house that their switching to Rudd. Any of you guys have much experience with the Rudd heaters?
> Also I am sure alot of the initial water heaters that make there way to HD will be stock that Rheem had in their warehouses and the quality will change for the worse as they spec WH specifically for HD.


They had a composite plastic ventor on there mid efficient furnaces a while back, they liked to get cracks in them, don't know if they are still using that design. The standing pilot had a goofy vent as well. Haven't seen any of their products lately. We do trane and goodman. I think ruud furnace, same company as rheem.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Plumbdog said:


> just saw a flyer in the supply house that their switching to Rudd. Any of you guys have much experience with the Rudd heaters?
> Also I am sure alot of the initial water heaters that make there way to HD will be stock that Rheem had in their warehouses and the quality will change for the worse as they spec WH specifically for HD.


 Rudd.. are the same company as Rheem and Richmond..


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

rjbphd said:


> Rudd.. are the same company as Rheem and Richmond..












Right. Rheem bought out Ruud some years ago.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumberkc said:


> The Rheem at HD has a different model number than the wholesale tank. I'm sure HD is having them do something different to save a few bucks on each tank. Things like a plastic drain valve tell you that they are building this thing cheap and it won't last 12 years. Home Depot sells knock off fixtures with Chinese made cartridges under the Delta & Moen brand. What makes you think they are providing a high quality water heater?


 
kc.. you have a very good point .... 

I reallly, really need to go buy a hd 50 gallon gas water heater and find out for myself what is different between them.....

I will still in-stall it for someone so its no big loss



I can see problems down the road if and when one of those vials goes bad in a HD water heater.... I could warranty mine out for the customer if it is under 6 years, but I doubt that HD will do the same for the diyer.... and probably tell them to just stick it in their asses...



On a side note...GE is now produceing their own water heaters 
out of Louisville Kentucky....they dropped Rheem to make their own brand of junk.... 

 I cant wait to see what they come up with:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Master Mark said:


> On a side note...GE is now produceing their own water heaters out of Louisville Kentucky....they dropped Rheem to make their own brand of junk.... I cant wait to see what they come up with:laughing::laughing::laughing:


I have heard that they are only manufacturing the Hybrid and other High Efficiency models in Kentucky. Maybe that is all they will focus on. They will be out of HD very soon. Can't see them going wholesale.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

With the Honeywell valves, if you aren't installing drip legs on your water heaters, you need to start now.


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Rudd.. are the same company as Rheem and Richmond..


Checked the box when I was installing a rheem today, label has Rheem/Ruud lol. What's the need of a ruud line of water heaters?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

JK949 said:


> With the Honeywell valves, if you aren't installing drip legs on your water heaters, you need to start now.


 

 Normally anyone who knows what theyare doing installs a drip leg on the heater... so what is the reason..... 

does the valve clog up easily if dirt or moisture gets nito the unit??


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> Normally anyone who knows what theyare doing installs a drip leg on the heater... so what is the reason.....
> 
> *does the valve clog up easily if dirt or moisture gets nito the unit??*












I was told by an inspector that the odorant, mercaptin, which is added to natural gas, is slightly corrosive to the galvanized coating of galvanized pipe. The odorant will cause the galvanized coating (zinc) to flake off and travel down the line and clog the orifices in gas valves, regulators and such, so that is why dirt legs are required by the fuel gas codes.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Tommy plumber said:


> I was told by an inspector that the odorant, mercaptin, which is added to natural gas, is slightly corrosive to the galvanized coating of galvanized pipe. The odorant will cause the galvanized coating (zinc) to flake off and travel down the line and clog the orifices in gas valves, regulators and such, so that is why dirt legs are required by the fuel gas codes.


thats why we don't use copper or galvanized. I do understand why it is used in areas with higher corrosive conditions as in costal areas. You have to weigh the odds as in what will cause more problems. In my area the corrosive action to the galvanized pipe is more of a problem than rusting. Dirt legs have always been code and also been the most forgotten item on a install.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Coolcanuck said:


> Checked the box when I was installing a rheem today, label has Rheem/Ruud lol. What's the need of a ruud line of water heaters?


Ruud is for people with dyksli (sp)


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

wyrickmech said:


> thats why we don't use copper or galvanized. I do understand why it is used in areas with higher corrosive conditions as in costal areas. You have to weigh the odds as in what will cause more problems. In my area the corrosive action to the galvanized pipe is more of a problem than rusting. Dirt legs have always been code and also been the most forgotten item on a install.


Over the last 5 years, the building dept. here has a problem with dirt legs. I have had to show the building dept. rule to engineers who want at least plugged tees at the base of risers. A plugged tee at the base of a riser now is an immediate gas inspection failure here. 
You are allowed a dirt leg at the boiler or water heater. I have had inspectors ask why I don't just use an elbow.
The building dept. calls plugged tees or dirt legs "futures". Meaning it is too easy to unscrew the plug and run an additional line without calling a plumber.


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## Keefer w (Jan 26, 2012)

G.e. Is assembling the geospring in Louisville. Cannot say they are actually manufacturing it there yet. $1,00,00,000 from the fed shouldhave been enough incentive to bring all the manufacturing out of China. Bet they still have stuff being made there.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Tommy plumber said:


> I was told by an inspector that the odorant, mercaptin, which is added to natural gas, is slightly corrosive to the galvanized coating of galvanized pipe. The odorant will cause the galvanized coating (zinc) to flake off and travel down the line and clog the orifices in gas valves, regulators and such, so that is why dirt legs are required by the fuel gas codes.


 

that does not actually answer the question I posed..

you are not supposed to use galvanized pipe, and black steel is the norm for gas ...


what I was wondering was is there something extra special about the honey well valves that has caused folks greif without the drip legs??/


we see them installed both ways all the time ...


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> that does not actually answer the question I posed.. you are not supposed to use galvanized pipe, and black steel is the norm for gas ... what I was wondering was is there something extra special about the honey well valves that has caused folks greif without the drip legs??/ we see them installed both ways all the time ...


I do believe that if you look in the installation manual it will state that it must have a dirt leg. The ones you have seen without one are not installed correctly.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

wyrickmech said:


> I do believe that if you look in the installation manual it will state that it must have a dirt leg. The ones you have seen without one are not installed correctly.


 
I never look at the installation manual....

that is for DIYers...:laughing::thumbsup:


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> I never look at the installation manual.... that is for DIYers...:laughing::thumbsup:


then look ate the code book.( thumbs up) lol


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## fhrooter72 (Apr 12, 2011)

> you are not supposed to use galvanized pipe, and black steel is the norm for gas ...what I was wondering was is there something extra special about the honey well valves that has caused folks greif without the drip legs??
> 
> we see them installed both ways all the time ...


Here Black Iron is only required on LP systems. Galvanized is legal on any natural gas. Drip legs are required on all gas appliances.

The Honeywells are ultra sensitive to moister and flakes which is why drip legs are an absolute must. They are also sensitive to exterior heat. Here in Houston, where 90% of water heaters are in attics that get 140 plus degrees in the summer, they are crapping out nonstop. We install Bradford White that also came out with the Honeywell but, we have an agreement with our supplier that all units we install have the old mechanical control valve.

I was unaware that HD carries Rheem. Down here, I have never seen any brand other than G.E. in their stores.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

fhrooter72 said:


> Here Black Iron is only required on LP systems. Galvanized is legal on any natural gas. Drip legs are required on all gas appliances.
> 
> The Honeywells are ultra sensitive to moister and flakes which is why drip legs are an absolute must. They are also sensitive to exterior heat. Here in Houston, where 90% of water heaters are in attics that get 140 plus degrees in the summer, they are crapping out nonstop. We install Bradford White that also came out with the Honeywell but, we have an agreement with our supplier that all units we install have the old mechanical control valve.
> 
> I was unaware that HD carries Rheem. Down here, I have never seen any brand other than G.E. in their stores.


 

we install the rheem and on occasion the bradfords in warranty replacement situations....

a drip leg happens here about 50% of the time, and we add one if none is on the unit.... 

but I was not aware that the Icons were ultra sensitive , 
I did hear that attics were hell on them....


I think they are junk either way and would like to see
bradford go back to the tried and true valves....


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Just figure our industry is going through a change where tolerances are tightening up. Besides the Icon valve, the burners can get fouled by particles and corrode. The corrosion causes holes in the burner where pockets of gas can collect and lead to rollout.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I've heard people say the icon valves causing issues, but I've had great success with them. I install Bradford White. I Allways install drip legs and combustion air pipes and I don't get call backs on them.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Home Depot is now in the plumbing business*

There is a story going around about RHEEM water heaters being sold over the counter in California..at home depot..

Home depot is not competeing with plumbers for huge government apartment jobs where like 1000 ...50 gallon power vent water heaters are being changed out and publically bid...


home depot under bid the plumbers in the area for the job because hd can get a 50 gallon rheem power vent for about 650 and the price the plumber can get it from the local supply house is about 925....

apparently HD only has to hire a master plumber and go into the plumbing business .... They can now underbid everyone cause of this extreme advantage Rheem has given them over the plumbing contractor...


now aint that sweet...


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## bigjuplumbing (Jan 17, 2014)

^^^^^ Awesome...... I truly believe that superior service will win out in the end. Or I sure hope it does lol


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I won't buy Rheem because of the safety vial. Having that crap out on a customer on a Friday night is no fun. Especially when Rheem tells you they will mail you a new vial on Monday or when it doesn't arrive and they 'mail' you another one the following Friday. Of course by then my customer already had another brand installed by then anyway.

Even worse is a couple of weeks after this both vials arrived in separate boxes. They still sit in my shop gathering dust.

David


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> I won't buy Rheem because of the safety vial. Having that crap out on a customer on a Friday night is no fun. Especially when Rheem tells you they will mail you a new vial on Monday or when it doesn't arrive and they 'mail' you another one the following Friday. Of course by then my customer already had another brand installed by then anyway.
> 
> Even worse is a couple of weeks after this both vials arrived in separate boxes. They still sit in my shop gathering dust.
> 
> David


 
Usually it means that there has been a fire or some event that overheated the heater.....and fooling with those vials is usually a waste of your time and the customers paticience

if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater and claim you have a leaker than to wait on one of those vials....
and make the customer happy

it has not been much of an issue for us...


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

I didn't wait on the vials anyway. The vial popped while we were cleaning up after the install. As soon as Rheem told me over the phone that they would mail me a new vial, I left a helper removing the new heater while I headed for another brand heater. 

I returned the failed heater on Monday and the counter manager asked "I'm guessing this is your last Rheem?". It was and that was approximately 4 years ago I think.

David


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Okay... So AO Smith is at Lowes, and Rheem is at Home Depot....

Bradford White is at a Plumbing Supply House....

Any Questions? :whistling2:


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

Redwood said:


> Okay... So AO Smith is at Lowes, and Rheem is at Home Depot.... Bradford White is at a Plumbing Supply House.... Any Questions? :whistling2:


Are they actually selling AO Smith products at Lowes or is it under the Whirlpool name? I'm worried about the AO Smith Effex going retail, whirlpool I'm not worried about.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Redwood said:


> Okay... So AO Smith is at Lowes, and Rheem is at Home Depot....
> 
> Bradford White is at a Plumbing Supply House....
> 
> Any Questions? :whistling2:



None................


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## Coolcanuck (Jan 30, 2012)

Redwood said:


> Okay... So AO Smith is at Lowes, and Rheem is at Home Depot....
> 
> Bradford White is at a Plumbing Supply House....
> 
> Any Questions? :whistling2:


Installed a Bradford for customer today that bought it from Wolsley :facepalm: He drained te tank for me (air locked) He even picked up his own fittings (2 die electrics) and hovered the whole time. Wasn't so bad though, we had a good chat about his boiler that he doesn't like because of air movement issues in the home, he claimed air handler is too small (I think the a/c installer installer cursed over the smaller duct work). I like that we are seeing more fan coils up here. At the end he let me install a blowdown and charge a disposal of the water heater.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plumberkc said:


> Are they actually selling AO Smith products at Lowes or is it under the Whirlpool name? I'm worried about the AO Smith Effex going retail, whirlpool I'm not worried about.


And The Difference Is?

Yea Lowes is selling Whirlpoo, American Water Heaters, & US Craftmaster Water Heaters....

Aren't they all AO Smith Operating Units?

Do you think for a moment if there was a significant drop in market share going to Home Depot to buy Rheem Water Heaters that Lowes wouldn't have AO Smith Water Heaters in their stores?

Seriously... It's paint, stickers, and some different colored plastic that makes the difference....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> And The Difference Is?
> 
> Yea Lowes is selling Whirlpoo, American Water Heaters, & US Craftmaster Water Heaters....
> 
> ...


 

I look for lowes to drop the whirlpool name and pick up a.o.smith
sometime soon cause the whirlpool namd is dirt everywhere


I have stumbled onto one of these new models, but did not have the time to look any deeper into how they work... it appears to be their higher end models but they STILL look like another clusterfuc/ adventure to me.


.I guess that this is their new FVIR experiment....I guess that the air is being sucked down from up above instead of from the underneath of the unit....????


what happens when the led read out goes bad??
I will have to go buy one and find out for myself



Redwood , have you tangled a-holes with any of these newer 
models yet???


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Master Mark said:


> I look for lowes to drop the whirlpool name and pick up a.o.smith
> sometime soon cause the whirlpool namd is dirt everywhere
> 
> 
> ...


No I haven't... The only AO Smith I see is for repairs & replacements. The only time I install one is a warranty replacement, as I install Bradford White....

That snorkle thing gets away from their badly flawed vacuum cleaner design sucking stuff off the floor...

It also has a fan pushing the air under pressure into the combustion chamber so tighter flue baffling is used yielding a higher efficiency with an EF of .70...


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater and_ claim you have a leaker _than to wait on one of those vials....
> and make the customer happy


No, it isn't. because. integrity.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

What are these "vials" you guys speak of?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

MTDUNN said:


> What are these "vials" you guys speak of?


It is a glass vial filled with oil that breaks when it gets too hot in the combustion chamber...

This would happen in an FVIR Event and when the vial breaks the unit shuts down.

The problem is that it also happens when the flame arrestor gets blocked with lint and dust...

All the other manufacturers now use thermal switches that reset with a push button...


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Redwood said:


> Okay... So AO Smith is at Lowes, and Rheem is at Home Depot....
> 
> Bradford White is at a Plumbing Supply House....
> 
> Any Questions? :whistling2:


No so much a question....but my local Do It Best and Ace sell Bradford's as well, and at the same price as the plumbing supply house as well, not cool!


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> No, it isn't. because. integrity.


whatever you say slick...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Redwood said:


> It is a glass vial filled with oil that breaks when it gets too hot in the combustion chamber...
> 
> This would happen in an FVIR Event and when the vial breaks the unit shuts down.
> 
> ...


 
I have literally installed about 2000 of them since 2003 . We were a little leerey of them at first but honestly they have not caused us any greif to speak of... (once you know what you are up against)

I have maybe tangled with 10 of them since 2003...

but compaired to the Smiths, states, sears WHIRLPOOLS that is not even a drop in the bucket....

we were installing bradfords for a while from 2006 through 2009... until they came out with the new crappy ICON valve.... Now we are getting call backs on a lot of them starting to leak with only a few months left on the warranty..... 

The rheem has a pretty good system so far and we are getting on average about 10-12 years out of them.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Originally Posted by Master Mark View Post
if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater and claim you have a leaker than to wait on one of those vials....
and make the customer happy



ChrisConnor said:


> No, it isn't. because. integrity.


I pulled the heater and returned it regardless of whether I was going to get credit. I said "here's your crappy designed heater, I'm headed for another brand". I got credit but the supply house wanted to save my relationship.

David


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

MTDUNN said:


> What are these "vials" you guys speak of?


The vials are oil filled bulbs that act as triggers to a spring loaded door. In the case of a combustion chamber getting too hot, the "oil" in the bulb causes the bulb to break, allowing the air intake to snap shut via the spring lock.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

dhal22 said:


> Originally Posted by Master Mark View Post
> if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater and claim you have a leaker than to wait on one of those vials....
> and make the customer happy
> 
> ...


 
My guess is your heater must have taken a huge fall during shipping to break that vial


like I stated , keeping the customer happy is more important to me than what Rheem thinks of me bringing one back with this type problem.....

considering we have put in well over 2000 of them, and I have only dealt with less than a dozen over the past 10 years, (some of them not even my installs) Rheem does not seem to mind an occasional "leaker"... 

I am Rheems customer and they want to keep me happy too..


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> My guess is your heater must have taken a huge fall during shipping to break that vial like I stated , keeping the customer happy is more important to me than what Rheem thinks of me bringing one back with this type problem..... considering we have put in well over 2000 of them, and I have only dealt with less than a dozen over the past 10 years, (some of them not even my installs) Rheem does not seem to mind an occasional "leaker"... I am Rheems customer and they want to keep me happy too..


Leaker, huh? How about just stocking some parts to take care of customers instead of making up fictitious failures? I'm sure that any manufacturer would prefer an honest report of their products shortcomings, instead of a lie about something that never happened. In fact, I'm quite sure they do mind these so-called "leakers". I'd think that if you have installed 2k of them, you'd have some repair parts at the shop or on the truck.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

No one's perfect. If the water heater had taken a fall and was defective out of the box, hey it can happen. But not allowing a supply house to stock the safety vial is dumb. You are forcing the customer to wait and wait and wait. Bad business model imho. My business model is bad enough, I eliminate issues were I can. No Rheems for us.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Leaker, huh? How about just stocking some parts to take care of customers instead of making up fictitious failures? I'm sure that any manufacturer would prefer an honest report of their products shortcomings, instead of a lie about something that never happened. In fact, I'm quite sure they do mind these so-called "leakers". I'd think that if you have installed 2k of them, you'd have some repair parts at the shop or on the truck.


 
you can do what ever you want to slick..... 
I really dont care what you think of my solution to the problem....it has been a very rare thing to happen for me....


I have attempted to repair a couple of them since 2003 and they never worked to my satisfaction, and eventually after a few hours, I decided to change out the whole unit.... so I dont fool with them

I wont change out the parts because every heater that has failed .... has failed for a reason..... *it had a fire inside the burner chamber...slick... OK??*


I dont know how hot or how much black soot has gone up the baffle on the heater either...... or if the baffle has melted due to high heat and warped or fallen down into the bottom of the flue chimmney 


Originally back in 2003 , Rheem said that when there was a fire in one of these units they were shot.. and they were unsafe... can you remember why they claimed it was probably unsafe .....slick??


If you are only just changeing out the vials and walking away thinking you have repaired the unit , then you are only doing a *Half-assed repair..*

*To do the repair correctly,...slick... *
*you should inspect and pull out the melted flue baffle, that is if you can pry it out of the unit, and inspect the flue on the* *unit and install a new baffle... so do you keep one of these in stock on your truck ??? I bet you do slick...:laughing::laughing:*


*Do you understand that you are assumeing the liability on how well the unit will function in the future, so you go ahead and do it half assed if you want to....*



If the unit is still under warranty I will do what I think safest and is best for the customer...and I will change it out...screw Rheem

If it is way past warranty, I sell them a new Rheem heater at a discount..

.

knock yourself out... slick.....


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## Titletownplumbr (Feb 16, 2011)

In regards to FVIR compliance, the manufacturers made a big mistake on these new water heaters by relying on interior combustion air. They should have a separate, properly sized fresh air intake pipe that we as plumbers should install to the exterior of the building. The heaters would have fresh, clean air and it would make the job a little more profitable for the plumbers.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> you can do what ever you want to slick.....
> I really dont care what you think of my solution to the problem....it has been a very rare thing to happen for me....
> 
> 
> ...


A couple of things. My name isn't "slick", slick is what you'd call a hustler that will say anything to get what he wants, honest or not.

All your claims of ignorance about "black soot" and "melted baffles" is... painfully humorous. No, I don't have a baffle on the truck. We're not talking baffles, we're talking about the little metal clamps and their glass bulbs. 

We're talking about you being a liar who claims that he tells his supply house that a unit is leaking when it's not. That's what we're talking about, but you seem to want to distract the folks who read this that I am somehow only doing a "half-assed" repair, when my diagnostic and repair procedures haven't been visited. 

You think that stamping your feet with potential scenarios about "prying out baffles" and saying that something is "probably unsafe" is course to follow a lie that a water heater is leaking when it's not? That's just lying. You're a liar. There. How's that.

You started with *"if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater and claim you have a leaker than to wait on one of those vials....
and make the customer happy"*

Now, you claim it's a safety and liability issue and you don't change the vial assemble anyway....


Well, whatever you do, MM, just don't ever count on me as a character witness.



Master Mark said:


> If the unit is still under warranty I will do what I think safest and is best for the customer...and I will change it out...screw Rheem
> .


Of course, it's easy to pretend to be the "good guy" when financing is made by others. Carry on, MM. You dig yourself any deep and we'll have another trade route to China.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

While you guys talk about dishonest plumbers replacing the "leaky" water heaters because of failed vial... what about the supply house with the big 'SH' name telling us that vial are non replaceable and the whole heater must be replaced.. ???


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> While you guys talk about dishonest plumbers replacing the "leaky" water heaters because of failed vial... what about the supply house with the big 'SH' name telling us that vial are non replaceable and the whole heater must be replaced.. ???


My Rheem suppliers says they can be replaced, but at first they could not or that it wasn't recommended.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Can ANYONE here confirms that the FIVR actually worked?? And reason(s) for it?


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

rjbphd said:


> Can ANYONE here confirms that the FIVR actually worked?? And reason(s) for it?


Worked as designed, no, but plenty of early AO Smith, State and Whirlpool that didn't work right.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

[










..


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*What ever you say slick....*



ChrisConnor said:


> A couple of things. My name isn't "slick", slick is what you'd call a hustler that will say anything to get what he wants, honest or not.
> 
> All your claims of ignorance about "black soot" and "melted baffles" is... painfully humorous. No, I don't have a baffle on the truck. We're not talking baffles, we're talking about the little metal clamps and their glass bulbs.
> 
> ...


 
look slick, I dont know exactly what your problem is..
and what I did to light the fuse to your tampon on this thread...
..
changeing out a defective heater once or twice over 10 years is not a big deal to me......If it gets my customer out of a jam waiting days for some parts arrive, I am ok with that..... I have fought a few of these to eventually just change them out.....

and I really honestly dont want the liability either.
( sure I got to be lieing about this ). 

you can call me a liar, or what ever it takes to make you feel good about yourself.... my character is just going to be fine with out your approval or petty condemdation...


.I would be willing to bet that a number of folks on this site have done this same thing once or twice in their lives to help out a customer...:yes: 

I am sorry that I dont walk on water like you do , 
or pretend to be better or holier than others..... 
like you are touting to be.

please come down off your high horse........ slick


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> look slick, I dont know exactly what your problem is..
> and what I did to light the fuse to your tampon on this thread...
> ..
> changeing out a defective heater once or twice over 10 years is not a big deal to me......If it gets my customer out of a jam waiting days for some parts arrive, I am ok with that..... I have fought a few of these to eventually just change them out.....
> ...


I'm not on a high horse, I just want you to know that lying to somebody, whether a water heater manufacturer or anybody else is not ok. :no:

So, here you are on PZ, a professional plumbers forum, declaring how you will lie to Rheem, for convenience. Then you have the audacity to accuse me of doing poor repairs. When my repair practices are not the subject, and not declared, a logical fallacy on your part.

You're stealing tanks, is what you're doing. Stealing tanks because you are inconvenienced by waiting on a glass bulb that acts as a trigger for a spring loaded door, and them make ridiculous claims about alleged safety concerns and fires in burner chambers. You're lying and stealing to satisfy the person who pays you. You've put you character and integrity up to the highest bidder. 

When the mid-2000 AO Smith and State water heaters would shut down when they got hot, I didn't tell those mfrs that the heaters were leaking when they'd trip out. I called the mfrs and told them what I found, only to find out that their special thermocouple had faults that would shut the heater down when they got too hot, especially in attics. It was a faulty design, but they were honored under the prescribed warranty. They'd send a new part and we'd go the route of the upgrade. Had I replaced those heaters by a false leak claim, the customer would have received disservice when the same problem occurred.

In similar fashion, how were you to know that there wasn't a fault in the bulb manufacturing process or maybe Rheem had a supplier with quality control issues? You didn't, but you figured lying was the solution. Remember when Rheem had the run of bad gas valves? Did you return "leaking" tanks for that problem, too? 

Nah, don't answer that. You can't be believed anyway.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

... Ladies... Please. Let's all be friends.


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## Burner tech (Oct 24, 2013)

I've enjoyed this thread.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

*There was indeed a period of many years when Rheem/Ruud/Richmond had a Technical Bulletin that recommended replacement of the water heater in the event of the glass vial breaking.*

I'm not sure of the dates this bulletin was in effect but it was from the period of the initial introduction of the Guardian FVIR System until some time approaching 2008.... Around that time they finally made the glass vials available and later dropped the technical bulletin...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*What is this slick???*

Can anyone tell me what this is??? 

Slick says that I am a liar and cant be credible.... cause I side
with my customer on a rare occasion...and get them out of a jam.... 

I am lieing to them cause I dont want to repair the burnt out heaters cause of my "made up liability story" about carbon monoxide , soot and other issues.......:laughing::no:

Slick says you dont have to mess with the baffles in the water heaters...that is not necessary..and dont worry about soot buildup or a bad orfice either,,,,:no:
With Rheem, all you got to do is change those vials out... when the heater overheats, and you are good to go.....
Slick states that aint necessary ..
So who is doing the "half assed" job here slick?? 

Slick, are you aware that if your basement floods, the water heater companies all state in their manuels that they feel its best to throw out the flooded soaked FVIR water heater.....??? 

So what do you think should be done if a fire happens in your water heater??. All brands of heaters should probably be checked out for soot issues up the flu pipe and possibly a bad orfice or burner.... 
when there has been fire or overheating episode.... 

Of course, Most are never checked , like on the bradfords, 
you just hit the re-set button and hope it re-lights. untill it happens again....


You go ahead and do whatever you feel is safest and best for your customer .. slick... and I will do what I think is best...




Slick, do you know your a// from a hole in the ground ??
can you tell me what this is in the picture??


 So what is this slick?? 

 Slick ... this looks like a burner that is sooted up and overheating...


 




I also refuse to work on Whirlpool heaters when they go out.... I have to confess to you slick that I attempt to sell the customer a new Rheem unit, does that make me a lazy theif and a liar too....?? Do you repair whirlpool heaters ??

can you ever find it in your heart to forgive me slick??


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Redwood said:


> *There was indeed a period of many years when Rheem/Ruud/Richmond had a Technical Bulletin that recommended replacement of the water heater in the event of the glass vial breaking.*
> 
> I'm not sure of the dates this bulletin was in effect but it was from the period of the initial introduction of the Guardian FVIR System until some time approaching 2008.... Around that time they finally made the glass vials available and later dropped the technical bulletin...












Weren't they the mfg that wanted those W/H's sent back to them? I don't remember who it was, but there was a mfg who wanted their W/H returned to them when there was a flammable vapor ignition event.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> Can anyone tell me what this is???
> 
> Slick says that I am a liar and cant be credible.... cause I side
> with my customer on a rare occasion...and get them out of a jam....
> ...


 Wow, well, you make the repair more and more extravagant and potentially deadly ever time you post. 

You first said 


Master Mark said:


> if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater and claim you have a leaker than to wait on one of those vials....
> and make the customer happy


Now you're trying to declare every possible scenario that would require a replacement, burnt out heaters and everything else.

and if any of those situations occurred, OF COURSE they get a new water heater, but that's not what you said, so here it is, for the second time in the same post


Master Mark said:


> if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater *and claim you have a leaker* than to wait on one of those vials....
> and make the customer happy


You see, you said you will lie about one failed part to get a customer a new water heater. Don't try to dodge what you said. This is NOT about replacing water heaters in legitimate situations, this is about you replacing water heaters for convenience because you don't want to wait on parts, which is what you said. 



Master Mark said:


> if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater and claim you have a leaker than to wait on one of those vials....
> and make the customer happy


You're lying because you don't want to wait on a vial. Whatever the reason, customer convenience, your own convenience, whatever. You're lying. 
You keep dodging what you're accused of and declaring legitimate failures, which aren't the problem, the problem is....



Master Mark said:


> if its still under warranty, its better to just change out the heater and claim you have a leaker than to wait on one of those vials....
> and make the customer happy


"If its still under warranty", is what you said, therefore, you're counting on the manufacturer to give an entire new water heater because you claim there is a "leaker", because you don't want to "wait".

So stop with the legitimate scenarios, just stop. This is about your confession of bad vials and replacing the entire tank over a vial and shipping convenience and wait time. Because that's what *you* said, but now you're _trying_ to make this into every other possible situation that would certainly require a new water heater. You set the parameters of what failed and even that the vial was the problem and that the vial was the remedy for the problem.

Your original failure did not say melted baffles, or sooty flues, just one little potentially failed part... to get the customer out of a jam, because "it's still under warranty", they're getting a new heater that _they_, the homeowner, won't have to pay for. You're lying about that. Just that.


You have the audacity to come to a professional forum and declare that lying, and stealing a new tank, is better than just waiting for the part.

MM, you set the parameters by which you "claim a leaker".

1. A Rheem water heater that is still under warranty.
2. A bad vial, which is not in stock.
3. A wait time that is perceived inconvenient.

Later you said "screw Rheem", which is what you are indeed doing.

All you other arguments are invalid.

Based on the things quoted above, and your claims about things that I never said, and how you are trying to put words in my mouth, that you are not only a liar, but a very, very, very, stupid, liar.

Replacing water heaters, under the claim that they are leaking, when they are not, is a case of moral turpitude. Something that most states would have reason for a hearing to revoke a plumbing license. ....

Stupid. Liar.

So, put away your sooty, melted flues, clogged orifices and stay on topic, because those things are not in this warranty claim that you made about getting "a customer out of a jam". You didn't say you're protecting life and property. You said "out of a jam". Lying about a water heater being a leaker over a wait time. 

You're not the good guy in this. You're a guy screwing Rheem over shipping times.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Here's.... looking at you... slick*

Look Chris, you got some serious anger issues
and possibly even worse issues I really dont need to know about
or get into with you in this forum.... 

I think Its full moon tonight and you have 
definitely tripped or blown a fuse on this subject.... so please 
get back on your meds asap.....


You are 100% right Chris,,, and
you go ahead and call me whatever you want to Chris, 
a liar , a stupid liar ,,,, whatever.....OK 

just gear yourself down
before you totally lose it and take it out on some passer-by.... 


Here is looking at you Chris..




.


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## Flyout95 (Apr 13, 2012)

You guys are CRAZY!


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Flyout95 said:


> You guys are CRAZY!


 
hey, dont look at me, 

I was just having fun debateing 
what to do with a defective water heater:blink:


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## plumberkc (Jun 23, 2011)

I personally don't have any problem with you lying to Rheem. They sold out to HD which is just asking for 10x the warranty issues from all the DIY hack installs.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

plumberkc said:


> I personally don't have any problem with you lying to Rheem. They sold out to HD which is just asking for 10x the warranty issues from all the DIY hack installs.


 

I never thought of that..

thats a very good point.. they are going to have a huge sunami
of service calls sooner than they realize.... 


I am taking my daughter to a pizza party tonight next door to the home depot store.... 

I plan on buying one of the 40 tall heaters just to see how they are made... They have a honey-well thermostat on it with I think the thermopile design.. which is gonna be trouble

I am going to look it over for fun, take some pics...
then probably install it for someone next week

Now will I be lieing if I tell the customer its a Genuine 
Rheem water heater, or just bending the truth a little??



thank you.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Easy solution guys. Do what I did, dump the pos water heater at the supply house, let them decide whether to credit your account and never install a Rheem again. 

But what does Rheem care, we are about a 50 heater a year company, nowhere near the big boys that order them by the truckload directly to their shop.

David


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> I
> 
> I plan on buying one of the 40 tall heaters just to see how they are made... They have a honey-well thermostat on it with I think the thermopile design.. which is gonna be trouble
> 
> ...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I bought the 40 gal tall water heater last night on sale for $297.00....Looks to be a little cheaper but wont know for sure till I open the box and look around..

It basically has the same white honeywell t-stat that everyone else is using + plastic drain valve ...that concerns me


the customer service department was not there but I was told if I join or become a "pro contractor" I can get another good discount off this price...if I buy a dozen


going to call them this am to find out more info just for fun


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> Now will I be lieing if I tell the customer its a Genuine
> Rheem water heater, or just bending the truth a little??
> .


Hasn't mattered to you yet, why are you starting now?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Hasn't mattered to you yet, why are you starting now?


 
you must really be having a bad week, 
month or year... 

 I dont know what your troubles are but 


I hope that things start to get better for you.........


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> you must really be having a bad week,
> month or year...
> 
> I dont know what your troubles are but
> ...


Oh, no troubles, business is good, hired a new guy who is honest and conscientious, all eight kids and the wife are good... well, I did get a notice that Rheem water heaters are going up... probably bogus "leaker" change outs caused this, not that it matters, I'm a Bradford White installer anyway.


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## plumbdrum (Nov 30, 2013)

ChrisConnor said:


> Oh, no troubles, business is good, hired a new guy who is honest and conscientious, all eight kids and the wife are good... well, I did get a notice that Rheem water heaters are going up... probably bogus "leaker" change outs caused this, not that it matters, I'm a Bradford White installer anyway.


Dude, seriously, get over it already!! Your the guy that always has to get the last word in. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with either of you, but jeesh, get over it already.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## MattZone (Mar 28, 2014)

I had a customer last night who demanded a water heater that day, she wanted a 50 gallon and we only supply Bradford heaters for residential tank units (Navien for tankless). I did not have a 50 in stock and supply house was closed, picked up the standard Rheem from Home Depot...

I did replace the plastic drain valve with a brass ball valve boiler drain (same one on the bradfords). Honestly it seems like a decent unit... outside of the "we install same day" crap posted all over the box.

With Bradford I will give a 6 year warranty on labor to match the parts and tank... I did only give a 2 year labor warranty on the Rheem just to be on the safe side.

I guess time will tell how these units hold up.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

MattZone said:


> I had a customer last night who demanded a water heater that day, she wanted a 50 gallon and we only supply Bradford heaters for residential tank units (Navien for tankless). I did not have a 50 in stock and supply house was closed, picked up the standard Rheem from Home Depot...
> 
> I did replace the plastic drain valve with a brass ball valve boiler drain (same one on the bradfords). Honestly it seems like a decent unit... outside of the "we install same day" crap posted all over the box.
> 
> ...


 


You will do ok with it... I bought one last night and we took it apart this am... 

We flipped it and from underneath it appears that Rheem has increased the size of the intake screen by about 5 times the size... 

It looks like the whole bottom is now a screen instead of the way they were a few years ago..... that is a good improvement....

the only thing I dont care about is the honeywell T stat...


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Master Mark said:


> You will do ok with it... I bought one last night and we took it apart this am...
> 
> We flipped it and from underneath it appears that Rheem has increased the size of the intake screen by about 5 times the size...
> 
> ...


Good to know.. thanks for the research.. with the Honeywell , still requires 24 volts??


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*Sears has the same t-stat as Rheem*



rjbphd said:


> Good to know.. thanks for the research.. with the Honeywell , still requires 24 volts??


 
I dont know for sure.... I guess so..


A few days ago, I ran into another issue with a 1 year old Sears water heater with that exact same honeywell t -stat on it as the Home Depot Rheem heater has,,,
and their techs had come out 3 times in a year to fool with the valve..

It turns out that the Sears water heater states in their fine print that the heater should not be installed in combination with a furnace that has any kind of forced or assisted venting in the flu....:blink: They claimed that the heater must be vented separately

This seems pretty half assed to me considering many furnaces today push the gases up the chimmney and can cause some back draft.... 


So the tech told the homeowner that they would not do any more free warranty work on that heater....... The chimmney was 4 inch off the heater going into a 8 inch way above it...


I have not read the fine print in the literature from the home depot Rheem heater yet.... but it concerns me and I am gonna ask some questions about it.... So, Is it the honeywell valve or the design of the sears heater that is the problem??


My Rheem rep was aware of the issues with the sears heaters and forced vented furnaces.... but he was not sure about the HD Rheem heaters..

I think that could be bad if they behave the same way:yes:


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

Master Mark said:


> You will do ok with it... I bought one last night and we took it apart this am...
> 
> We flipped it and from underneath it appears that Rheem has increased the size of the intake screen by about 5 times the size...
> 
> ...


I've never installed a RHEEM, so then it has a screen intake on the bottom that will still require cleaning?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> I've never installed a RHEEM, so then it has a screen intake on the bottom that will still require cleaning?


 
Yes, It has a screen intake just like al the rest.... I have installed them in some of the most extreme , nasty hell holes with cat hair and lint.... and we have never, ever had to clean one yet... I dont know how you could clean one from underneath....

the air on a Rheem does not come in from the bottom
it comes from up on the sides through some sort of foil insulation and is drawn up through the screen on the bottom... 


we have also installed a whole lot of Bradfords too and they DO seem to need cleaning .. we have had some over-heating call backs on some of them 

.....if you look at the stats on the Bradfords, the air come in on the sides but directly on the bottom... 

I dont know why the Rheem has been doing so well
but they seem to chug along just fine for me....we have rarely 
had a "vial bursting problem" over the last 11 years...


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> Yes, It has a screen intake just like al the rest.... I have installed them in some of the most extreme , nasty hell holes with cat hair and lint.... and we have never, ever had to clean one yet... I dont know how you could clean one from underneath....
> 
> the air on a Rheem does not come in from the bottom
> it comes from up on the sides through some sort of foil insulation and is drawn up through the screen on the bottom...
> ...


You can't clean a Rheem from underneath. The trap door, it's spring and bracket are stopping you from getting to the flame arrest screen. 

Even if you took the trap door, slide and spring apart, the opening to the flame arrest is only four inches, not opening to clean the entire flame arrest screen.



Regarding Rheem


> the air on a Rheem does not come in from the bottom
> it comes from up on the sides through some sort of foil insulation and is drawn up through the screen on the bottom...


The foil insulation is of no consequence and the air does NOT go "through" the insulation, but merely past it. Bradford White does not insulated this area of the heater where the slots are.

Both Bradford White and Rheem have intakes from the sides of the heaters, the difference is BW has their intakes closer to the bottom of the heater with bigger slots that are placed closer to the front hemisphere of the units, while Rheems are placed about four inches higher and is a large area of smaller holes that wrap around the sides.

The screen flame arrest on a Bradford White is as large as the entire bottom of the heater, but to clean it, you'd have to lay the water heater on the side and remove the sheet metal bottom. Although cumbersome, it is entirely accessible, unlike the Rheem.


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