# W.T.F. Has happened to our industry?



## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Hot off the press ... Today I installed 2 Kohler Cimmerons
The first one I took out of the carton and set it base down 
on the floor, completed the install. The 2nd one I took 
out of the carton and set in on a rug rim down. Then I
looked and this -- "attached photo" jumped up and bit 
me in my shutter finger. The rest is self-explanatory. 
"Them dirty rotten SOB's" 
To paraphrase Scrooge "BAA HUMBUG"


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

The short answer....

Our industry sold out.

Americans became more interested in the lowest price, only.


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

Oh come on, it says "crafted". That means it was made by a _*craftsman*_ that has honed his _*craft*_ with years of training. It doesn't get any better.







Paul


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Indie said:


> The short answer....
> 
> Our industry sold out.
> 
> Americans became more interested in the lowest price, only.


That there Indie, is the cold hard truth. From the simplest everyday items to the big ticket stuff.

It is a race to the bottom where everyone loses. 

Sad really...


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## Plumbergeek (Aug 16, 2010)

Don't even get me started! This country has completely sold it's soul to the devil. I purchased a combo ball/check valve today for a sewer ejector I was installing and the 2" PVC ball valve said made in China and the check valve had a sticker saying "Proudly made in the USA"


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## ranman (Jan 24, 2010)

we all did it! their and our first question is most always what does it cost? not what will provide a American job or is good quality. it is what is cheaper.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Sorry you got hit in the face with that Bill. I saw my first foreign Kohler almost two years ago.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

You do realize that "American Standard" simply means it was conceived in the 'America's', right?

The 'America's' stretch from both North and South Poles.

And all points in between.


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

just think of it as job insurance. going to be on rotation replacing all the cheap crap put in today.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

:laughing: :whistling2:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

I think them Toto's were mad in Usa, as in Usa, Japan.


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## smudge (Jan 19, 2010)

made in U.S.A. and not sold in box stores. :thumbup:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

smudge said:


> made in U.S.A. and not sold in box stores. :thumbup:


Not all of their products are Made in the USA but a good number of them are.
For a Model # Listing of their US made products you can click the link below.
http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/BrochureDownloads/BAA-0410.pdf


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## rocksteady (Oct 8, 2008)

RealLivePlumber said:


> I think them Toto's were mad in Usa, as in Usa, Japan.


_"...it's not hand-made in USA, it's pronounced Hand-made in Usa. The Hand people are Vietnamese slave tribe and Usa is their island prison."_






Paul


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

I've put in Toto's made in USA, Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, Vietnam, and Brazil. 

Does it work?

Does it go a reasonable amount of time before needing service?

Would you put it in your mom's house?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

JK949 said:


> Would you put it in your mom's house?


Yes I have!


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

JK949 said:


> I've put in Toto's made in USA, Japan, Mexico, Taiwan, Vietnam, and Brazil.


 
I put together a Toto Drake II last week.

The Tank was from Vietnam and the bowl from Brazil.

The tank and bowl color matched perfect. Thats got to be hard to accomplish. 

How do they do it?


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> I put together a Toto Drake II last week.
> 
> The Tank was from Vietnam and the bowl from Brazil.
> 
> ...


Quality Control? :thumbup:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

Yeah, I imagine the QA department in those third world countries are top notch just like their safety committees and HR departments.

:laughing:

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Yeah, I imagine the QA department in those third world countries are top notch just like their safety committees and HR departments.
> 
> :laughing:


Well I can assure you that my experience recently with American Standard on a double vanity was nothing like that...

I dropped them in place and the color difference stood out like a loud fart in church... 

I went back to the supply house and we opened up all 6 they had in stock and still no matches with 8 to choose from.

The rep showed up with 3 more and with 11 to pick from still we couldn't get 2 matches. :furious::furious:

The rep left with an assignment to find 2 that matched which he finally did...

Some companies have quality control no matter where they have plants and others don't have anything at all.


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## smoldrn (Oct 4, 2010)

Put in an AO Smith today that was made in USA, I had thought they were all made in Mexico now. The heater I took out was an AO Smith, too. Installed in '94, & it still wasn't leaking.


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## Ruudplumber (Feb 21, 2011)

sad to say but i haven't had any luck with a a.o. smith w/h. have one in stock just to replace the competitions installs under warranty. Been using Ruud.... but they at least last the 6 years around here..... maybe 8 max depending on what part of town its in.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Compete by off-shore labor...or go out
The desire to build it cheaper....forces of market...
Political sell-out
No vision in the leadership.......u n t i l...............the conclusion..
" Oh my God what have I done".........

Notice how people try so hard to squeeze the plumbing price down so they can have some cosmetic tweek...

Behind the curtain ...a systematic drive to globalization, socialism, redistribution of wealth.....

just to name a few


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Saddest part is most AMERICANS are imports now too.


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## Greenguy (Jan 22, 2011)

Will said:


> Saddest part is most AMERICANS are imports now too.


Were all frigging imports just a matter of how long you go back 10 years new or your family from 4 generations ago who got off the boat. 

We all support the imports whether it be our food products or the clothes we wear. Our industry just tends to use bigger stamps and stickers announce where the product is from.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Redwood said:


> Yes I have!


 
Me too. Installed a Supreme for my dad for Father's Day last year. Last week, the shop was going to throw out an ADA Drake that we pulled from a customer's house, I cleaned it and put in my brother in law's place.


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## 3Peasdrain (Feb 5, 2010)

*made in china*

Its like buying stuff from spartan made in china


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## Mags (Mar 11, 2011)

My biggest issue with being in busimess is product problems. Malfunctions, leaks, sticking parts etc. Drives me crazy to have to go back to a job a week later to remove a brand new ball-cock that is sticking. Toilets coming from the factory with loose handles. Faucets with bent or cocked spouts. Water heaters with crooked T&P tappings. The list goes on and on. And good luck dealing with the factory rep, customer service or trying to warrenty parts or labor. You get every excuse why something isnt covered....hence "limited" life time warrenty.


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## PeckPlumbing (Mar 19, 2011)

Good old Kohler, My sister worked for Hajoca , and when she called them to ask whether or not a certain product was made in USA, Kohlers response was 'we can't guarantee where any of our product is produced, due to kohler being a global company' ... Nice huh? I put in a pedestal sink that was made in Thailand... from Kohler.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Out of 6 of the last 12 sump pump replacements where I know for a fact that it was the original sump pump installed by the installing plumber of the plumbing system in the home,


*6 of them had no 3/16" hole drilled in the discharge pipe between discharge port and check valve.*


I got some video coming in the next week or two that so damn pathetic that I saw red when I saw it tonight. Of course I'm making money but these homeowners are screwed by the people who put this plumbing in the home. 

And it's horrible. Video is coming.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*quality DELTA faucets*

went on a call yesterday , the customer had someone 
install a DELTA 400 faucet in her kitchenfrom BLOWES,,, only 4 months old
you could just FEEL the quality of the plastic base... 

I turned the faucet spout from left to right and you could FEEL the whole cartridge and body move and shift on that base, and those special pex water lines moved underneath also... ...:thumbsup: quality stuff.....

she claimed that it came on by itself and wanted me to repair it .. I told her I would do it, but the faucet was junk and it might fall apart in my hands.. I was not gonna kill my day trying to save it or be responsible for it.......and she might need a new one....

I think that was a fair disclaimor before getting myself into a mess... We are gonna put in something else later this week.

*thank you delta for joining the race to the very bottom*


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

My Wolverine rep was in today, with the new "Essence" faucet. 

It's a couple pounds of solid brass. Alot heavier than the "Endurance", although I like the loop handle, 

I told him to stock me with a pair.


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