# ADA compliance question.



## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I have a question about ADA compliance for a water closet. From what I understand it's 18" from center to wall and 18" min to lav.

Is the 18" from wall /handrail to closet a max? 

I believed the hand rail and the toilet needed to be parallel.

The reason I ask: Had an apartment manager told to rotate toilet 30 degrees towards center of bathroom to comply with ADA(by state inspector).

If it was done the rail would be over 18" away but the lav would be under 18" at least at the front of the bowl. The rail would no longer be parallel.

I'm not sure what the inspector was trying to accomplish with the change. but when I let them know where it would point it looked like a bad idea for the tenant who needs the rail to sit and get up.

Thanks


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Get your self a 2" offset toilet seat


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

http://www.floridabuilding.org/fbc/...aw/2012_Florida_Accessibility_Code_Final .pdf

Based off the 2010 ADA code which went into effect on March of 2012.

Toilets can now be 16 to 18 inches from center to side wall. See page 142 in link.

Anyway you can offset the toilet closer to the wall to get it away from the lav?


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Sorry, my post must have been confusing. The toilet was good where it was/is. 18" lav 18" wall. 

The state inspector wanted it rotated 30 degrees towards the center of the bathroom. I was trying to figure out why. I also want to know if the wall/hand rail needs to be parallel with the toilet.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

That's pretty crazy. I'm with you. I'd think that that would defeat the purpose of the hand rails. I'd think they wouldn't even be reachable. The last time I checked most handicap people don't have the strength of a gymnast on the rings doing the iron cross position to get on and off the toilet seat. Is this one of those cross-trained inspectors? God forbid if it's a flush valve. That would be some ugly trim. I'd focus on the fact that the toilet has a "center line". It's not 16 to 18 from the center of the toilet to the wall, its 16 to 18 from the "center line" (center of the back of the toilet to the front) of the toilet. Same with the lavatory. It's got to be minimum 18 inches "center line" of toilet to edge of lavatory. Turning it 30 degrees would throw both measurements off.


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## 6th Density (Nov 29, 2010)

Don't forget that the 18" inches for the lavatory only applies to residential.
Commercial requires the edge of the lavatory to be 60 inches from the side wall (42 inches from the center line of the toilet).


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

6th Density said:


> That's pretty crazy. I'm with you. I'd think that that would defeat the purpose of the hand rails. I'd think they wouldn't even be reachable. The last time I checked most handicap people don't have the strength of a gymnast on the rings doing the iron cross position to get on and off the toilet seat. Is this one of those cross-trained inspectors? God forbid if it's a flush valve. That would be some ugly trim. I'd focus on the fact that the toilet has a "center line". It's not 16 to 18 from the center of the toilet to the wall, its 16 to 18 from the "center line" (center of the back of the toilet to the front) of the toilet. Same with the lavatory. It's got to be minimum 18 inches "center line" of toilet to edge of lavatory. Turning it 30 degrees would throw both measurements off.



That's why I said nope. The lady in the apartment needed the rails, I'm not having anything to do with breaking hips.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> ...The reason I ask: Had an apartment manager told to rotate toilet 30 degrees towards center of bathroom to comply with ADA(by state inspector)....


Did you hear the inspector say that or was this second hand from the apartment manager? 

I cannot imagine one of our state guys recommending that. By offsetting the WC you lose a lot of free space and violate the 18" rule.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> Did you hear the inspector say that or was this second hand from the apartment manager?
> 
> I cannot imagine one of our state guys recommending that. By offsetting the WC you lose a lot of free space and violate the 18" rule.



It was written. It's a semi assisted living center, they do inspections 4 times a year because some tenants get state assistance. 

I didn't get why either, I was hoping someone on PZ had heard of it before.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> It was written. It's a semi assisted living center, they do inspections 4 times a year because some tenants get state assistance.
> 
> I didn't get why either, I was hoping someone on PZ had heard of it before.


A real head scratcher it is. **Yoda voice**


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I do probably 30 ADA Water Closets installs every year. I put all mine at 19 off rough framing. Allmost all the jobs I do we have to have 4' unimpeded 4 foot access to each fixture. 5 foot turning radius is a must.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

ADA 2010 STANDARDS


604 Water Closets and Toilet Compartments

604.1 General. 
Water closets and toilet compartments shall comply with 604.2 through 604.8. 
EXCEPTION: Water closets and toilet compartments for children's use shall be permitted to comply with 604.9. 

604.2 Location. The water closet shall be positioned with a wall or partition to the rear and to one side. The centerline of the water closet shall be 16 inches (405 mm) minimum to 18 inches (455 mm) maximum from the side wall or partition, except that the water closet shall be 17 inches (430 mm) minimum and 19 inches (485 mm) maximum from the side wall or partition in the ambulatory accessible toilet compartment specified in 604.8.2. Water closets shall be arranged for a left-hand or right-hand approach.

604.3 Clearance. Clearances around water closets and in toilet compartments shall comply with 604.3.

604.3.1 Size. Clearance around a water closet shall be 60 inches (1525 mm) minimum measured perpendicular from the side wall and 56 inches (1420 mm) minimum measured perpendicular from the rear wall.

604.3.2 Overlap. The required clearance around the water closet shall be permitted to overlap the water closet, associated grab bars, dispensers, sanitary napkin disposal units, coat hooks, shelves, accessible routes, clear floor space and clearances required at other fixtures, and the turning space. No other fixtures or obstructions shall be located within the required water closet clearance. 
EXCEPTION: In residential dwelling units, a lavatory complying with 606 shall be permitted on the rear wall 18 inches (455 mm) minimum from the water closet centerline where the clearance at the water closet is 66 inches (1675 mm) minimum measured perpendicular from the rear wall.

Advisory 604.3.2 Overlap. When the door to the toilet room is placed directly in front of the water closet, the water closet cannot overlap the required maneuvering clearance for the door inside the room.

604.4 Seats. The seat height of a water closet above the finish floor shall be 17 inches (430 mm) minimum and 19 inches (485 mm) maximum measured to the top of the seat. Seats shall not be sprung to return to a lifted position. 
EXCEPTIONS: 1. A water closet in a toilet room for a single occupant accessed only through a private office and not for common use or public use shall not be required to comply with 604.4. 2. In residential dwelling units, the height of water closets shall be permitted to be 15 inches (380 mm) minimum and 19 inches (485 mm) maximum above the finish floor measured to the top of the seat.

604.5 Grab Bars. Grab bars for water closets shall comply with 609. Grab bars shall be provided on the side wall closest to the water closet and on the rear wall. 
EXCEPTIONS: 1. Grab bars shall not be required to be installed in a toilet room for a single occupant accessed only through a private office and not for common use or public use provided that reinforcement has been installed in walls and located so as to permit the installation of grab bars complying with 604.5. 
2. In residential dwelling units, grab bars shall not be required to be installed in toilet or bathrooms provided that reinforcement has been installed in walls and located so as to permit the installation of grab bars complying with 604.5. 
3. In detention or correction facilities, grab bars shall not be required to be installed in housing or holding cells that are specially designed without protrusions for purposes of suicide prevention. 

Advisory 604.5 Grab Bars Exception 2. Reinforcement must be sufficient to permit the installation of rear and side wall grab bars that fully meet all accessibility requirements including, but not limited to, required length, installation height, and structural strength.

604.5.1 Side Wall. The side wall grab bar shall be 42 inches (1065 mm) long minimum, located 12 inches (305 mm) maximum from the rear wall and extending 54 inches (1370 mm) minimum from the rear wall.

604.5.2 Rear Wall. The rear wall grab bar shall be 36 inches (915 mm) long minimum and extend from the centerline of the water closet 12 inches (305 mm) minimum on one side and 24 inches (610 mm) minimum on the other side. 
EXCEPTIONS: 1. The rear grab bar shall be permitted to be 24 inches (610 mm) long minimum, centered on the water closet, where wall space does not permit a length of 36 inches (915 mm) minimum due to the location of a recessed fixture adjacent to the water closet. 
2. Where an administrative authority requires flush controls for flush valves to be located in a position that conflicts with the location of the rear grab bar, then the rear grab bar shall be permitted to be split or shifted to the open side of the toilet area.

604.6 Flush Controls. Flush controls shall be hand operated or automatic. Hand operated flush controls shall comply with 309. Flush controls shall be located on the open side of the water closet except in ambulatory accessible compartments complying with 604.8.2. 

Advisory 604.6 Flush Controls. If plumbing valves are located directly behind the toilet seat, flush valves and related plumbing can cause injury or imbalance when a person leans back against them. To prevent causing injury or imbalance, the plumbing can be located behind walls or to the side of the toilet; or if approved by the local authority having jurisdiction, provide a toilet seat lid.

604.7 Dispensers. Toilet paper dispensers shall comply with 309.4 and shall be 7 inches (180 mm) minimum and 9 inches (230 mm) maximum in front of the water closet measured to the centerline of the dispenser. The outlet of the dispenser shall be 15 inches (380 mm) minimum and 48 inches (1220 mm) maximum above the finish floor and shall not be located behind grab bars. Dispensers shall not be of a type that controls delivery or that does not allow continuous paper flow. 

Advisory 604.7 Dispensers. If toilet paper dispensers are installed above the side wall grab bar, the outlet of the toilet paper dispenser must be 48 inches (1220 mm) maximum above the finish floor and the top of the gripping surface of the grab bar must be 33 inches (840 mm) minimum and 36 inches (915 mm) maximum above the finish floor.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

...


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

609 Grab Bars 

609.1 General. Grab bars in toilet facilities and bathing facilities shall comply with 609. 

609.2 Cross Section. Grab bars shall have a cross section complying with 609.2.1 or 609.2.2. 

609.2.1 Circular Cross Section. Grab bars with circular cross sections shall have an outside diameter of 1¼ inches (32 mm) minimum and 2 inches (51 mm) maximum. 

609.2.2 Non-Circular Cross Section. Grab bars with non-circular cross sections shall have a cross-section dimension of 2 inches (51 mm) maximum and a perimeter dimension of 4 inches (100 mm) minimum and 4.8 inches (120 mm) maximum.

609.3 Spacing. The space between the wall and the grab bar shall be 1½ inches (38 mm). The space between the grab bar and projecting objects below and at the ends shall be 1½ inches (38 mm) minimum. The space between the grab bar and projecting objects above shall be 12 inches (305 mm) minimum. 
EXCEPTION: The space between the grab bars and shower controls, shower fittings, and other grab bars above shall be permitted to be 1½ inches (38 mm) minimum.

609.4 Position of Grab Bars. Grab bars shall be installed in a horizontal position, 33 inches (840 mm) minimum and 36 inches (915 mm) maximum above the finish floor measured to the top of the gripping surface, except that at water closets for children's use complying with 604.9, grab bars shall be installed in a horizontal position 18 inches (455 mm) minimum and 27 inches (685 mm) maximum above the finish floor measured to the top of the gripping surface. The height of the lower grab bar on the back wall of a bathtub shall comply with 607.4.1.1 or 607.4.2.1.

609.5 Surface Hazards. Grab bars and any wall or other surfaces adjacent to grab bars shall be free of sharp or abrasive elements and shall have rounded edges. 

609.6 Fittings. Grab bars shall not rotate within their fittings. 

609.7 Installation. Grab bars shall be installed in any manner that provides a gripping surface at the specified locations and that does not obstruct the required clear floor space. 

609.8 Structural Strength. Allowable stresses shall not be exceeded for materials used when a vertical or horizontal force of 250 pounds (1112 N) is applied at any point on the grab bar, fastener, mounting device, or supporting structure.


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

Is that commercial? I pulled up 18 and 18 when I showed the guy. Just picture that toilet rotated 30 degrees into the room. I still don't get it, I dont see where it says the toilet must be parallel but by default it should to keep the 18" with the wall.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

DesertOkie said:


> Is that commercial? I pulled up 18 and 18 when I showed the guy. Just picture that toilet rotated 30 degrees into the room. I still don't get it, I dont see where it says the toilet must be parallel but by default it should to keep the 18" with the wall.


If not dictated, parallel is certainly implied with the ADA using center line terminology.


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## justme (Jul 4, 2012)

There should be an ADA compliance report that should point to what part of the code the inspector is enforcing .


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