# How Are Your Inspectors?



## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

As a plumbing inspector, I knew who worked with who... what kind of work they did... and who would try to pull one over on me. 

The municipalities in Oklahoma have different regulations. Your smaller communities/towns can hire any "peanut picken plow boy" and appoint him as city plumbing inspector as long as they are able to obtain a plumbing inspector's license within a given time (I believe this to be 2-3 yrs). This is only applicable to population of less than 4,500. In the cities with larger population they have different requirements (inspectors license+journeyman license or inspectors license+contractor license).

This all goes without saying that the code reads as follows:

(a)　　　　Apprentice plumber. 

(1)　　　　Apprentice plumbers must be under the direct supervision of a licensed plumber when engaged in plumbing.
(2)　　　　A maximum of three (3) apprentice plumbers can work under the supervision of a licensed plumber.

...with having my inspectors license I saw a lot of things from a different aspect. It ain't easy bein' cheesy!

Though the rules say direct supervision, how is this interpreted by your inspector(s)?

The inspector that I work with regularly understands that I do not stand over my apprentice(s) and that I try to give them projects to work on by themselves (ie: topouts, etc.) this gives them chance for trial and error before going out alone after passing a journeyman exam. It also allows them to have confidence in their ability to do work and they are more apt to 'take the shovel from you'. After time you get to where you do not have to triple check all of their work. You begin to trust your apprentice's work just as our inspectors learn to trust our work. If parts are needed from the warehouse, it is 5 minutes or less away and I have a cell phone as does the person(s) being left to continue working- plus if anyone deserves to get an A/C shot it is me! lol

When working in cities that I am not a regular at, I respect the inspectors and would not leave an apprentice at a job for two seconds.

Inspectors in this area are scoping more for out of state plumbers, people (bootleggers/ hacks) that are working without a license in a whole or plumbers that are trying to pull the wool over their eyes. (ie: a hidden gas-stop for temporary use, like passing a gas line that will not hold pressure). As an inspector, if I were to have seen an apprentice's work that was not 'par' I would have addressed the contractor that he was employed by. Other than that, the contractor knows where he is (the contractor sent him to the job & the apprentice has his truck) and almost EVERYONE has a cellphone these days if the contractor is directly needed. Which in this area is a 5 minute trip. Seeing a man carrying a toolbox into a house that just got out of a truck marked "Honey-Doo Services" that has a 40 gallon NG water heater would be more of my aim.

I know that some may not agree with leaving the side of an apprentice ((EVER)) and I respect that. My question to you is...

*How are the inspectors where you are at & do they really 'hunt' for apprentices that have been in the field and are working temporarily alone?*

My 'thread' idea originated from a post in *Mike Jessome*:*First day doing repairs myself*.

I am not arguing nhmaster, I thought it was a good thread idea... :thumbsup:


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

Depends from one individual inspector to the next and one City to the next. But in some localities, if the inspector is coming on too strong in certification issues, they may find themselves with little backing. 
I've heard of an entire inspection department having to undergo "sensitivity training" because of discrimination claims. I have no doubt the claims were trumped-up and bogus, but what are you gonna do?
Things were far more tight fifteen years ago.


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm certified in both the UPC and the IPC so I attend a lot of the Inspector classes to keep up on my CEU hours. I am always amazed at how many interpretations there are between inspectors from the same department. Some like to enforce the code as written while others like to think they understand better what it really means.

Mark


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

Regulator said:


> Depends from one individual inspector to the next and one City to the next...
> ...Things were far more tight fifteen years ago.


I have too heard of inspectors writing citations for plumbing without a license and shutting down job sites. Only to be forced to go back to the job and allow work to continue and 'the permits will be paid and pulled later'. It is hard for them when the city does not back them. 
The inspectors here are not necessarily 'just' the plumbing inspector. We do have one electrical inspector, one mechanical and one plumbing. The problem is that they can not devote to just these issues (even if they could the support may or may not be there)- these guys are also code enforcement for other issues. (ie: grass is not mowed, etc.) I think if the general public understood the importance in plumbing they would see that their municipalities allowed these plumbing inspectors to do just that. Some people just think we are a bunch of terd pushers and don't realize just how important alot of the issues we are dealing with are life/health/property threatening. Another benefit to being in a 'smalltown' that I try to not ever take for granted is the fact I can call our inspector and ask questions, as can my apprentice. If I am unsure on something he is very helpful. I think the longest time we have had to wait is 2 hours for an inspection, but on average it is 15-30 minutes.


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

ToUtahNow said:


> I'm certified in both the UPC and the IPC...


:confused1: What codes are all out there? That are regulated across the US.

_I understand there are several but have only ever dealt with 
ICC- International Plumbing Code_

_Please PM me if you know the answer or if there is a thread on this matter as this question is OFF THE TOPIC._


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Our inspectors seem to be more concerned with code violations during inspections and stopping handy hacks from doing major plumbing without a permit. If they read direct supervision literally - I think they would have to shut down virtually all jobsites. Our labor pool is so unskilled, even the new Master Plumbers don't have the training a two year apprentice in another state would have.

Here's a nice code violation for you, an entire condo complex was built with all the water heater drain lines and condensate lines buried in the ground. No drainage, when the pipe went so far horizontally they just cut them off.

Real fun when you have one backing up into a first floor unit and you have no clue where the drain line is buried. Each building is different. It's an ongoing problem. On the lines we could find, we put in meter boxes and filled with stone to allow some visible drainage. At least the line isn't plugged with rock hard dirt now.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Most of our inspectors work full time for the towns. Some like me, are part time, paid per inspection. There aren't enough state inspectors because Illinois is broke. Most of our inspectors are pretty good about following the code. If they get lippy, you can show them the code and your copy of the email you sent to the state inspector. I inspected a rough in my town and failed it on two issues, one of the problems was no c/o at the base of the stack, in the basement. The plumber showed me where the code allowed a stack cleanout within 5 foot of the footing on the outside. So, I passed that, but the wet vent went horizontal, way under the floodrim of the sink upstairs, he agreed with me that his *unsupervised apprentice *screwed that up and changed it. Most of the inspectors are willing to admit they are wrong and learn something new.


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

[. I think the longest time we have had to wait is 2 hours for an inspection, but on average it is 15-30 minutes.[/quote]


Wow, that would be nice. Here it's A.M. or P.M. You would think that in this day and age i.e. cell phones,computer,pagers etc. we could narrow down that window. Ahhhh to be in Oklahoma.:yes:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

Same here, it's an a.m. or p.m. Makes it hard when you are finished a job and want to be present for the inspection.


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## gusty60 (Oct 21, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> Same here, it's an a.m. or p.m. Makes it hard when you are finished a job and want to be present for the inspection.


That would be nice. In Phoenix it is tomorrow or the next day!:furious:


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

Inspectors here only inspect work where there is a permit pulled any contractor can get a permit and have an unliscensed guy doing the work as the inspector won't show up until he is called to inspect


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

inspectors in sf would have to have a journeymans card.. 20 or so guys on staff split in districts they work full time takes me a day or so to get an inspection.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Christina said:


> . . .deleted for brevity . . .
> My question to you is...
> 
> *How are the inspectors where you are at & do they really 'hunt' for apprentices that have been in the field and are working temporarily alone?*
> ...


The inspector I respected the most told me that she (yes, "she") really wasn't concerned with licenses and titles so much as with the "quality of work afforded to the end user".
IOW, she could give a rats a$$ if the work was performed by a drunken monky so long as it passed code requirements, was of sound construction and could pass the most rigorous testing. (SHe was a real stickler for testing!) 

heh I have a story about a rediculous test scenario she wanted from us but I'll save that for another post. :yes:


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## ToUtahNow (Jul 19, 2008)

Plumbworker said:


> inspectors in sf would have to have a journeymans card.. 20 or so guys on staff split in districts they work full time takes me a day or so to get an inspection.


I attended a code up date class in Las Vegas earlier this year where Michael Mitchell, the senior Plumbing Inspector for San Francisco was the instructor. I was pretty impressed with his knowledge and passion for the trade.

Mark


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## Proud Plumber (Sep 15, 2008)

Here inspections are pretty regimented. We have to call in the day before it is needed. Most of our inspectors are pretty reasonable. All of our inspectors work full time directly for the governing municipality-- except some larger projects such as schools. The inspectors usually work directly for the architect or engineer.


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## Plumbworker (Oct 23, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> I attended a code up date class in Las Vegas earlier this year where Michael Mitchell, the senior Plumbing Inspector for San Francisco was the instructor. I was pretty impressed with his knowledge and passion for the trade.
> 
> Mark


cool! Mr. Mitchell know his stuff for sure!


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## Down N Dirty (Mar 12, 2009)

"Ah to be in Oklahoma" Please come to Tulsa: For the City of Tulsa it is AM or PM inspections, for some of the surrounding communities it is AM only, some PM only, which basically means the next day. And for dear ole Bixby (rated one of the fastest growing communities) we are lucky to get them to come out within 2 days. 
As far as them coming out for the apprentice checkups, the city inspectors rarely check the licenses, however, the State inspectors come out in force regularly once a month. Some of the companies get hit pretty hard. There are several large service companies that have apprentices running a service truck.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

They are really decent in my state of KY.

You can sick them like a dog on something that don't seem right as well. 

GET EM! GET EM BOY! *ATTACK!!! KILL!!! * :laughing:


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## racerx (Aug 29, 2009)

Each town has there own inspector. I only cover a 15 mile radius. This would be 8 towns. All are smooth except for one town. He is a dick. I actually have to pull out the book and say i don't think so.:laughing:


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

racerx said:


> Each town has there own inspector. I only cover a 15 mile radius. This would be 8 towns. All are smooth except for one town. He is a dick. I actually have to pull out the book and say i don't think so.:laughing:


We ask all new comers to post a little about them selves in the introduction forum. Please head to this forum and start a thread and tell us how long you been a plumber, what kind of shop you work in and so on. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> They are really decent in my state of KY.
> 
> You can sick them like a dog on something that don't seem right as well.
> 
> GET EM! GET EM BOY! *ATTACK!!! KILL!!! * :laughing:


They are the same in the counties I work in around here in west central Florida.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

ToUtahNow said:


> I attended a code up date class in Las Vegas earlier this year where Michael Mitchell, the senior Plumbing Inspector for San Francisco was the instructor. I was pretty impressed with his knowledge and passion for the trade.
> 
> Mark


Believe it or not, Mike didn't go to plumbing school, he went to law school! Right now two of my apprentices are enrolled in his code class at the hall (Local 467) and as soon as they get to Chapter 4 they will be receiving on going pop quizzes from yours truly. If they fair poorly, I'll be on the horn to Mr. Mitchell saying "What gives?". 
My contractors' association (GBA) has been hosting quarterly code luncheons for over 30 years with the express purpose of getting inspectors from the various jurisdictions in our area to homogenize their interpretations. Well worth the cost, I think. Mike is a regular attendee.


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## PipeRain (Sep 14, 2009)

Here's what we had to deal with for inspectors in Philly.

http://contractormag.com/news/cm_newsarticle_22/

They all got convicted and jailed, but this was something that has gone on in the city for years. When I first started (16-20 yrs old) I thought YOU HAD to pay the inspector. Well you did, but my dumbass thought it was legal to do and just another fee.

The FBI originally started out thinking plumbers were bribing city inspectors, but soon came to the realization that we were being extorted. 

It was the same thing each time, 20 bucks per inspection. I remember my dad gave the guy 10 bucks on a curb trap. The next day the inspector (who we called the pirate because he sailed in, robbed you, and sailed out) was asking my dad what he did wrong to him. My dad said nothing and The Pirate informed him he was a little light last time.

We had to pay them because they would keep you waiting ALL DAY with a ditch open. The inspector wouldn't show up to four o clock and who wants to back fill then?

But now all city plumping inspectors are out and we now have building code enforcers. 

It's crazy hell how the city is running their inspections and permit issuance in Philly now. You need a permit? Prepare to spend a day at City Hall. You need an inspection? Prepare to talk to an idiot who took a four hour plumbing course.


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## Christina (Jul 14, 2009)

PipeRain said:


> http://contractormag.com/news/cm_newsarticle_22/


Good Post Piperain.


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## Down N Dirty (Mar 12, 2009)

WOW


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Most of our inspecotors are about 6' tall with mustaches.


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## hulihan (Aug 11, 2009)

Here in Los Angeles, we work pretty much the same area, and the Commercial Plumbing inspectors do not inspect Residential, The Commerical inspectors get to know you, and they know who is on the up and up and who is not, we have been pulling permits for awhile, sometimes we have problems, but for the most part they are cool to us, we have a pretty good rep here, they can telll some funny stories, I do not know about other states, but here, if they think something is fishey, theymake us pull a camera under, not all of them will crawl. The residental plumbing inspectors do it all, water, AC, electric etc..


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

here. they need 48 hours. we have one guy who does ALL inspections. (except gas and electrical) and sometimes he will decide to call you on somehting that doesnt even make sense...and lets others get away with things i can see just driving by a house (ie: VTR within 12 feet of an opening window) drives me insane... and as far as tickets or red seal or even testing goes......he says 'they call you when there is a problem...not me'


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

hulihan said:


> Here in Los Angeles, we work pretty much the same area, and the Commercial Plumbing inspectors do not inspect Residential, The Commerical inspectors get to know you, and they know who is on the up and up and who is not, we have been pulling permits for awhile, sometimes we have problems, but for the most part they are cool to us, we have a pretty good rep here, they can telll some funny stories, I do not know about other states, but here, if they think something is fishey, theymake us pull a camera under, not all of them will crawl. The residental plumbing inspectors do it all, water, AC, electric etc..


 I'd laugh in their face if they asked me to take a camera under the house. Literally.:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## RollinSoLo (Sep 22, 2009)

This is good to know. had an inspector come unglued on a supervisor when the inspector showed up 2 hours late, we had just worked 19 strait hours in a hospital remodel and had 3 contractors waiting for the inspection to cover up the hole,Boss decided to take pictures and cover the hole up.
Boss: I covered the hole but i have a picture.
Inspector: I don't want you f****** picture i wan to see the plumbing.
Boss: come on You are here 2 hours late i had everyone waiting for us this is a hospital we have to get this done asap.Sorry chief.

This is where I slip away thinking a shouting match might occur.
He got lucky, The inspector did not make him dig it up, which means I would have had to dig it up and after 19 hours of nonstop work i would have politely asked the inspector if he wanted to engage in ......
Mortal Combat!! 
*
If a job cannot be inspected in a timely manner, the contractor can call an inspection supervisor who can give permission to self-certify. The contractor has to photograph the job, attest that he has used approved materials and followed the code, and he can close up the hole without an inspector seeing the job.
*

also As far as interpretation of the code,Here in Texas the state senate passed articles in the bill that created the tsbpe that give the board of plumbers the power of interpretation of the code.If a code is challenged and ruled upon by the board that takes precedent over your personal interpretation,if the code has not been challenged and brought before the board. You follow the code word for word. It is up to the inspector to know what the board has ruled on and how this ruling effected the code and you apply it as the board ruled. Since my favorite hobby is politics I like throwing curve balls at unsuspecting inspectors.


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## PipeDreamer (Mar 26, 2009)

We have laws and rules as to what is an apprentice and what is a journeyman and who supervises who and when. Those rules are not in our code book, they are state law. Our inspectors are code enforcement, as long as the work was performed by an employee of the plumbing contractor who pulled the permit the job must be inspected.


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## bchplumbing (Oct 24, 2009)

It is am pm here in lake of the ozarks area. Other area's may depend on the city and inspectors. Most inspectors that I have talk to interpret the code and not enforce the written code because they think it is open to interpretation according to the job.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

bchplumbing said:


> It is am pm here in lake of the ozarks area. Other area's may depend on the city and inspectors. Most inspectors that I have talk to interpret the code and not enforce the written code because they think it is open to interpretation according to the job.


It is the intent of the code, and should be administered in a consistant manner.IMPO


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