# Just got my helium leak detector and it works great!



## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

MGD-2002 Helium/ Hydrogen leak detector. Already used it to find a leak I could not find with my Subsurface acoustic unit. This showed me the area and then I switched back to the subsurface unit to narrow it down. I used Helium because I already had some but I think I will be using the hydrogen mix because it is cheaper in the future I was winning about 60% of the time with just the Subsurface unit but I kept giving the hard ones over to a guy with helium and he or one of his buddys would steal the job. And I figured well I didn't have the right tool to be more positive so I deserved to lose the job. Now I got it no more calling anyone unless xrays are needed.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

So the unit works on the same priciple as the echo location unit? Only instead of listening for water running, you're listening for gas escaping from the pipe?


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

No listening it has a gas sensor that reads part per million and you detect the helium or hydrogen because they are lighter than air and small and rises up for you to find the spot.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

So was yur leak under a slab or just soil? And if slab did u need a pilot hole of some kind. I ask because ill be utilizing this at some point as well


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

The leak today was right next to a concrete walkway but was actually in soil and under a tree. Even with air I could not pinpoint the spot with 100% certainty, I didn't want to break the slab and be wrong and the tree and roots where another issue. In the end it was 120 psi cheap black poly from the 80's and after I fixed the leak 1/2 hour later it started leaking in another spot. That's how black ploy is in the low psi variety. So now we are replacing the whole line with the pipe burster.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

So let me ask you this CUDA...I know it was your first time, but did it give you a much better comfort level of hell yea it's right here? Or was there still doubts prior to committing to dig.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

I also should have mentioned that helium will pass through the concrete if there is no vapor barrier, but if you are near the edge it will take the path of least resistance and come up on the side of the slab. So in certain situations you do need to drill some 1/4" holes at the right spots. And you have to let the helium dissipate if you have it on too long or too high of pressure because the area will be saturated. Kick back wait and start again. Water is evil!


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Shoot'N'Plumber said:


> So let me ask you this CUDA...I know it was your first time, but did it give you a much better comfort level of hell yea it's right here? Or was there still doubts prior to committing to dig.


I was 98% positive and was prepared to go forward with pretty good confidence. I have been watchin the guy do it for me also.


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## Shoot'N'Plumber (Apr 27, 2013)

cuda said:


> i was 98% positive and was prepared to go forward with pretty good confidence. I have been watchin the guy do it for me also.


nice!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Cuda, how is the helium detector working? I just bought a sub-surface LD-12 and I love it. I was reading through some old threads {this forum has some really dynamite old threads} and stumbled onto this one. Is there any learning curve with the helium detecting? Seems simple enough. Any tips would be appreciated.


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## WashingtonPlung (Jul 25, 2016)

What brand is the detector? I'd be curious into getting one.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

WashingtonPlung said:


> What brand is the detector? I'd be curious into getting one.














So would I be interested in learning more about helium & hydrogen leak detection to augment the electronic leak detection.

Curious why the OP was only finding about 60% of his leaks with his Sub Surface unit.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Have not posted in a long time. Finally got my password reset. I use a hydrogen detector as part of my leak detection equipment for about 3 years now. On outdoor leaks it is a phenomenal asset in leak locating. Indoors you may have to drill a 1/4 in hole if there is a vapor barrier. I use tracer gas most of the time when leak locating. If I am using listening devices it still gives me an extra level of comfort. Now I make sure that I detect the presence of hydrogen. Also the hydrogen is cheaper than the helium.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

The bear said:


> Have not posted in a long time. Finally got my password reset. I use a hydrogen detector as part of my leak detection equipment for about 3 years now. On outdoor leaks it is a phenomenal asset in leak locating. Indoors you may have to drill a 1/4 in hole if there is a vapor barrier. I use tracer gas most of the time when leak locating. If I am using listening devices it still gives me an extra level of comfort. Now I make sure that I detect the presence of hydrogen. Also the hydrogen is cheaper than the helium.














That password threw a lot of us a curve ball, myself included {and I'm a moderator here.....:laughing:}. 

Anyway, thanks for the tip with regard to helium and hydrogen as a tracer gas. 

I did my first few electronic leak detections and used sound only-eventually found them. One I had help from Alex {Gargalaxy on here} he helped out. I'm currently using only the LD-12 locating equipment with an infrared heat thermometer. 

I bought a small bottle of nitrogen, a regulator and made up a rig to inject gas into a hose spigot. Question, how do you inject gas into a hose spigot with the water on? My regulator reduces the nitrogen from 2000 psi input, to 50 psi output. So if house pressure exceeds 50 psi, I can't inject gas with the water on.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

wow I can actually log back on here! Helium used to be scarce and rare but they found some big deposit that was bigger than what the world had before and helium is now back down low in price again. I like helium as the tracer because the percent is high vs hydrogen is a small percentage in the bottle but either one works!


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Tommy
I would suggest a regulator that allows you to push a higher pressure. My setup lets me check existing pressure and than push 1 or 2 psi higher. Also my regulator has a blow off to prevent excessive pressure should the regulator fail. If the slab is flooded you may want to leave water off and just push a couple of psi. Sometimes it helps to have setups so you can induce through angle stops and other fixtures.


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## indyjim (Apr 29, 2017)

The bear said:


> Tommy
> I would suggest a regulator that allows you to push a higher pressure. My setup lets me check existing pressure and than push 1 or 2 psi higher. Also my regulator has a blow off to prevent excessive pressure should the regulator fail. If the slab is flooded you may want to leave water off and just push a couple of psi. Sometimes it helps to have setups so you can induce through angle stops and other fixtures.




Yes. Sillcocks here have to be anti siphon, so that's a no go. We use the washer box, or adapt on to whatever we can. I know enough about it to be dangerous. Our shop has one crew that does nothing but leak detection. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> That password threw a lot of us a curve ball, myself included {and I'm a moderator here.....:laughing:}.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the tip with regard to helium and hydrogen as a tracer gas.
> 
> ...


Another idea is turn the water off to the house and inject co2 bottle/air compressor into the hose bibb. The air and water mixture is a lot louder coming out of the hole than water alone when you're using listening equipment only.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Debo22 said:


> Another idea is turn the water off to the house and inject co2 bottle/air compressor into the hose bibb. The air and water mixture is a lot louder coming out of the hole than water alone when you're using listening equipment only.















...So what am I doing wrong? When I turn off the water and inject nitrogen into the line, I can't really hear much. I hear more with the water on. The set-up is a mock leak that I rigged up at home. It's a CPVC line about 2 1/2' deep with a leak.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Tommy plumber said:


> ...So what am I doing wrong? When I turn off the water and inject nitrogen into the line, I can't really hear much. I hear more with the water on. The set-up is mock leak that I rigged up at home. It's a CPVC line about 2 1/2' deep with a leak.


I always found slab leaks by water sound only, the guy I use to find them for me now was using air from his small compressor to amplify the sound. Try just cracking the water valve open a little to keep water in the pipe and introduce air a little higher of pressure than the water. What you're trying to achieve is air/water sputtering out of the hole. Since you're trying to find the leak by sound, compressor air is free, CO2 is cheap, nitrogen is $25 a bottle refill.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

helium hydrogen gas sniffer units are pretty cheap on ebay to detect the gas. My point is you do not have to buy the expensive SPX one like I have until you want to spend that kind of money. The big difference between them is the hand held ones on ebay where really made for running over pipes and equipment that is right in front of you not buried in the ground. So you have to be creative and add a cheap plastic body plunger like they sell at home depot, drill a hole in the handle end and stick the probe in there maybe use some tape to make a good seal and you have now extended the sniffer kinda like the spx unit. The big difference is the spx unit has a stronger motor/pump in it for pulling in the sample so you would have to go slower than a guy with the spx unit. The units are called ion gascheck g3 usually there a lot of them on ebay even though I don't see any today but they usually go cheap.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

here I found one for you to see
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ion-Handhel...ddd8dfe&pid=100011&rk=2&rkt=3&sd=322463068804

he wants about double what they go for but he does say make offer.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Cuda said:


> I was winning about 60% of the time with just the Subsurface unit but I kept giving the hard ones over to a guy with helium and he or one of his buddys would steal the job. And I figured well I didn't have the right tool to be more positive so I deserved to lose the job. Now I got it no more calling anyone unless xrays are needed.


 










Cuda, can you elaborate regarding only locating around 60% of leaks? How deep are the copper water lines in your location? Also, why would x-raying the slab be needed? I have heard of the need to x-ray a slab in a multi-story building to locate stress cables before core drilling.

By the way, I always enjoyed your videos showing your crew at work.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

finding 60% meant of the leaks that did not come to the surface and using audio to find them. Other noises from cars people etc even with air hooked to the line and I just could not find the leak to at least a 90% certainty. lines only 2-6 feet deep. Helium is what I use alot and do not waste very much time now on trying to listen if it does not just jump out at me. I have gpr ground penetrating radar to use outside but my unit goes too deep to be used inside it does not give a good locate on slabs so I let others with the 1000hz antennas do those mine is a 250 unit. I should say I have cut my time down on even finding leaks anymore because the lines around me are either really old galvy pipe or 20 year plus black poly I just run the people a new line and don't put much energy into repair. If they have copper then more time goes into the possibility of a repair.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Cuda said:


> finding 60% meant of the leaks that did not come to the surface and using audio to find them. Other noises from cars people etc even with air hooked to the line and I just could not find the leak to at least a 90% certainty. lines only 2-6 feet deep. Helium is what I use alot and do not waste very much time now on trying to listen if it does not just jump out at me. I have gpr ground penetrating radar to use outside but my unit goes too deep to be used inside it does not give a good locate on slabs so I let others with the 1000hz antennas do those mine is a 250 unit. I should say I have cut my time down on even finding leaks anymore because the lines around me are either really old galvy pipe or 20 year plus black poly I just run the people a new line and don't put much energy into repair. If they have copper then more time goes into the possibility of a repair.












Thanks Cuda. There is a plumber in your neck of the woods, Issaquah, WA I think who posted a youtube video showing a repair on a black poly water service that was evidently back-filled with rocky fill and with that cheap stuff if a stone is lying on or under the black poly, it pierces the poly.

In that company's video, the owner goes out on a Saturday to do the locate. He walks down a 100' plus driveway to locate the leak, then his men come out on the following Monday to do the repair. That owner was using the LD-12 equipment made by Sub Surface. That is what made me purchase Sub Surface LD-12. Previously I had been looking at General's Gen Ear.


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

LD-12 is a good locator it has some pretty good filters for other noises. Most of the black poly I go to it's not the rocks but the pipe itself breaks down and you repair a leak and a month later another leak happens. I tell them right out the gate they should replace but if they want to pay for a locate and a repair it's up to them But some dont listen and I have a little grin on my face when they call be back. They always hope it was my repair that failed and it never is lol


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## Cuda (Mar 16, 2009)

Here is a jpg of a trenchless one we just did, this is just a picture of the google earth file I send them the difference is on the google earth one they can click anywhere on the line and it gives them the gps location and depth of the line so they will always know where it is in the future. Finding plastic lines to even look for a repair is somtimes harder than finding the leak. These condos where all built with blue poly (recalled) and each building has them all bundled together in the same trench with the underground power and telco lines it made it impossible to really replace the leaking line so I just rerouted it with a trenchless pow-r mole pipe pusher puller. I laid in extra lines for the future of the other units lines going bad.


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## The bear (Sep 27, 2012)

Locating leaks on plastic piping can be difficult with acoustic detection equipment. If the ground is absorbing the water from the leak it is harder to create the sound needed to locate the leak. When I push air or tracer gas I use a setup that has a quick disconnect than a tee with gauge and than a ball valve. The tracer gas connects to the other side of the ball valve. I check pressure on the incoming water and than adjust pressure on my tracer gas gauge. I slowly open ball valve until I can hear gas pushing into line against water pressure. I adjust based on the sound I hear. 

The hydrogen detector I have, cost around $1800.00 new.It has really worked well for me. I also owned a Sewerin unit but found it more complicated than I needed. It recently would not power up and decided it wasn't worth the cost of the repair to fix.


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