# Kinetic Water Ram



## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

Have you ever heard or used one of these? I got a book in the mail that had this on the inside cover talking about it. Kinda caught my eye.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes,
they work great on restaurant/bar floor sinks that are blocked with drink straws and broom straws. 80 psi, *boom*, done. I use it at home on the bathtub drain. My wife buys bath sponges for the kids, and they crumble a little bit every time you use it. The crumbs end up blocking the trap. 40 psi, *boom*, done.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Now im curious... links?


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

www.waterram.com is the web page for it.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

Save your money...:whistling2:

One of our guys "Invested" in one of these...
I made a killing off his callbacks...:laughing:

The boss eventually made him take it off his truck...:yes:
Seems he was charging like he snaked the line and it didn't go over well with the customers...


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

It isn't supposed to take the place of snaking, it really works great on blocked traps.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

Ive seen them for a a while now, but have never used one.


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

One reason it caught my eye was because I have an 36 unit building I need to clear all drains and 90% of the tub drains are bottle traps. (I'm new to the snake thing but I'm pretty positve it won't go through the bottle trap?)


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## Plumber Jim (Jun 19, 2008)

If it is best for traps then a good 'ol plunger is all you need. I would think this thing will just pop a small hole in a glog to release the pressure.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

We checked into this a while back. One of the drawbacks was that it had limited uses. If memory serves me, there was a possibility that you could blow another trap down the line or cause a mess when you had back to back fixtures. Something along those lines. This was only determined after talking to the manufacturer and specifically asking the question. For us, the risk wasn't worth the reward when we already have all the tools that will do the job.

 - On second thought - sounds like an excellent tool for the handyman. 

Reminds me of the old Mikey commercials for Life Cereal. "Let's get the handyman to try it, he'll try anything." :laughing:


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

To me it seems worthless most of the time, the energy will take the least path of resistance, here each fixture get a vent within said amount of distance, so the energy this produces will follow the line to the vent entrance, at that point all the energy will be expelled out through the vent, this losing it's power, and will have no effect on anything beyond the vent.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

The air moves so fast, it blows right past the vent and hits the blockage full force. Don't buy it if you don't like it, but don't knock it if you haven't used it. It has limited application, but works extremely well in those applications.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

If the vent tee is on the vertical, how do you see it blowing past the vent. It hits the tee and the energy is divided at that point, so how could that be? You will loose a good percentage of the energy at the vent. :whistling2:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

jjbex said:


> The air moves so fast, it blows right past the vent and hits the blockage full force. Don't buy it if you don't like it, but don't knock it if you haven't used it. It has limited application, but works extremely well in those applications.


Venting - the manu. told us the same thing. 

In certain applications, we can see it working but having another piece of equipment in an already crowded truck wasn't worth it.

However, if you are one of those who likes all kind of 'toys' (tools), it does work. Direct from the mouth of our local suppy house.

My joke about handymen was referring to them not knowing the right application.


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

I have one of those air ram works great but for limited use.
Tub with a drum trap if I can't jump it with my 1/4 inch cable. They can be messy blow water and muck every where its a skill that has to be mastered in the hands of an inexperienced person can be a nightmare
Blow traps out big messes. I love it don't use it much just be careful with it.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Same as others have said. I have one, used for years, works well in limited application, can blow a trap and be messy, watch out for back to back, and the finale--pumped one up ( in the younger years mind you) put a wet rag over the overflow hole and cracked the china lav from the pressure.


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

when I was doing pipe lining we would shoot the liner in from the outside into the house. If we didn't plug all the drains in the house we would have one hell of a mess. No thanks is my vote i will stick to my snakes and jetters.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Did you use a Ram to clean out drains or blow liners into the house? Have you used a Ram to cleanout traps? They work great for specific applications.


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## A Good Plumber (Jun 18, 2008)

jjbex said:


> The air moves so fast, it blows right past the vent and hits the blockage full force. Don't buy it if you don't like it, but don't knock it if you haven't used it. It has limited application, but works extremely well in those applications.


 

I agree with ya jjbex, we have one and it has it's place, but you better be carefull. 

The best use we've found is for floor drains or floor sinks. You need to tighten the single test plug into the drain and blast away. Toilets are a mess and lavy's are a little tricky (cover the overflow).

It's important to know that it olny works if the piping is backed up to the trap your clearing. It's a kinetic shock wave through the water that clears (most of the time) the blockage.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

Yes, floor drains and floor sinks in restaurants/bars are about the only place I use it.


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

I can't imagine using that to unclog a toilet. I wonder if it has other applications?:jester:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

PlumbCrazy said:


> - On second thought - sounds like an excellent tool for the handyman.
> 
> Reminds me of the old Mikey commercials for Life Cereal. "Let's get the handyman to try it, he'll try anything." :laughing:


I agree 101%:laughing:


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## UnclogNH (Mar 28, 2009)

LoL :laughing: Never use it on a toilet. Love to see it used on a back to back toilet with some un expecting person sitting on the other side


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## gladerunner (Jan 24, 2009)

They have been around for along time, My father used one and he's been dead 18 years. He once told me that he lent it to a friend who pumped it up to 100-125 psi leaned down on it for a tub drain and shot the overflow screw into his ear. He swore it was true. I don't know


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

One thing for sure...
The possibility for an enormous mess comes with this product...


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

The true and only way to clear a clogged drain and do it right is to cable it.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

How do you cable a trap?


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

jjbex said:


> How do you cable a trap?


You take the trap off, or if it is a solid trap non removable, a 3/8" cable with full circle cutters will maneuver around it.


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## 3KP (Jun 19, 2008)

I think jjbex is thinking tub trap not a lav trap. Since cable is the way to go how do you cable a bottle trap??? (No you have no way to access it except through the tub over flow) The plumber that replumbed the building didn't replace the bottle traps with regular P-traps. (hence why he's not doing there plumbing anymore.)


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

This is my own opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree with what I say about this.

Drum and bottle traps are non existent here, but when and if I do find one, it's all about replacement, find it, get rid of it, find a vent to clear it out at, I have never had an issue with a drain, even on a lav, if the trap is in good shape, I could walk the 1/4" cable around it and open line without ever pulling the trap. All I have to say about this device, to force a line open via pressure, is it won't stay open for long, it will clog back up in no time. It is just not the right way to do it.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> This is my own opinion. I don't expect anyone to agree with what I say about this.
> 
> Drum and bottle traps are non existent here, but when and if I do find one, it's all about replacement, find it, get rid of it, find a vent to clear it out at, I have never had an issue with a drain, even on a lav, if the trap is in good shape, I could walk the 1/4" cable around it and open line without ever pulling the trap. All I have to say about this device, to force a line open via pressure, is it won't stay open for long, it will clog back up in no time. It is just not the right way to do it.


I don't think I can count high enough to count the number of drum traps that are entirely encased in concrete in Chicago high rises that would cost thousands of dollars to replace because they have been tiled over with marble, slate, or granite tile.


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## Ron (Jun 12, 2008)

Shame on all those that covered up those traps, I feel for the drain techs who have to deal with a bad rap as that. Don't look for me to move there anytime soon and open shop as a drain tech.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Shame on all those that covered up those traps, I feel for the drain techs who have to deal with a bad rap as that. Don't look for me to move there anytime soon and open shop as a drain tech.


Chicago code is very clear on drain cleaning, if you do not have a plumbers license you can only clear main sewer blockages from a CO outside the building, in clay pipe, and you must have a drainlayers license to perform this work. If the pipe is cast iron, or inside a building, it has to be done by a licensed plumber, IL code has some similar rules, but I am not familar with them.


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## para1 (Jun 17, 2008)

KTS, I've heard a $10.00 permit is required to be pulled when a sewer main is rodded (cook county/ chicago).


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

para1 said:


> KTS, I've heard a $10.00 permit is required to be pulled when a sewer main is rodded (cook county/ chicago).


That is not true. you only need to pull a permit on work that is subject to inspection, like sewer replacement, and the permit fee for that is well over ten dollars.


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## gusty60 (Oct 21, 2008)

UnclogNH said:


> LoL :laughing: Never use it on a toilet. Love to see it used on a back to back toilet with some un expecting person sitting on the other side


 Thanks for the idea.....:whistling2:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

UnclogNH said:


> LoL :laughing: Never use it on a toilet. Love to see it used on a back to back toilet with some un expecting person sitting on the other side


Did you know they have washlet seats installed here?:laughing:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

All I got to say is they work great on bar/restaurant floor drains or floor sinks. The traps get filled with straws and crayons and start catching sludge, the ram blasts the clog apart, sending it down the main.


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## UALocal1Plumber (May 13, 2009)

I do a good mix of service plumbing in NYC commercial buildings. I have a kinetic water ram on my truck and have used it many times, with varying success. I have found that if I can't clear a lav or tub stoppage with 2 or 3 (MAXIMUM OF 5) strokes on the tank, I won't get it at all and bringing it up to 20 PSI is asking for trouble. I have tried a few times to overpower the drain with massive pressure (in a slop sink in the shop that is constantly filled with crap) and it is impressive to see how violent the reaction is. I totally believe that you can blow apart pvc or 20 ga tubular with the thing. 

Then again, I do usually try it at first because it takes only a minute and saves the customer from spending more than the minimum charge if it works - which it does maybe 50% of the time. I feel that if I can offer them a service that saves them money I owe it to them to do so. 

I just found this website and am happy to join in.

Keith


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

para1 said:


> KTS, I've heard a $10.00 permit is required to be pulled when a sewer main is rodded (cook county/ chicago).


It is true in Chicago you call in for a permit to power rod the main sewer. Also Chicago does not require you to be a licensed plumber to clear any drains within the home, but you do need to have a sewer/drain layers license. My father has been doing sewer and drains in Chicago for over 50 years.

This is right from Chicagos website.

*Sewer Permits, Fees and Standards*
Prior to the start of work, permits are required from the Department of Water Management for the construction, repair, adjustment, rodding or cleaning of any subsurface structure designed to collect or transport storm and/or sanitary waste water, either in private property or in the public way. A Department of Water Management permit must be obtained ONLY by a LICENSED DRAINLAYER.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

And on topic i have a 40 year old water ram that I use tons of times. It works great on them sludge blockages on kitchen sink lines. Also works great on drum traps. It is just like cabling any line you want to make sure it is not back to back with another drain before use, and I have opened lines only using 5 PSI. 

I do like to use it on lave sinks or tubs that has Drano in it, to get the drain at least seeping so I can flush it with fresh water before I stick my rodder in the drain line. Drain cleaning chemicals ruins a good cable to easily.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

I love my water ram. Had a back to back water closet in a strip mall that was backed up. Both water closets would not flush, the blockage was just pass the double wye combo that was used. Everything else in the bathrooms worked fine. So we pulled water closet one, and stuffed a rag in water closet two, pumped up the water ram to 40 pounds and used the cone washer and blammo there goes the clog. Beats beating out my brains trying to make the rod take a right hand turn in the double wye. 

I mostly use it for kitchen sinks that are so sludged up that you can rod till the cows come home and it will not open. Also great for bathtubs with drum traps. The key to this is the same with any tool you use, knowing how and when to use it.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

It is just one of the many tools in our bag of tricks. I use it about twice a year. But it is worth it's wight in gold when needed.


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## jimqbaum (Sep 10, 2008)

*Kinetic water ram*

Read all the pu pu on this site about the rams and my tech also urged me to buy one, so we did and am I glad. That tool is the frachizzle drizzle!
First job; toilet, 10lbs, bam ---done
Second job; 3" flat branch drain clogged up for appx 40+ feet, pumped up to 52 lbs and bam----done. Just had to pull the toilet for that one. It comes with an attatchment to put in drains and tighten. 

This particular line was put in flat by the homeowner and was recieving the discharge from a bathroom group and a kitchen with garbage disposal/dishwasher. The homeowner had installed hose bib connections every 20ft to facilitate clearing. Now what would ya rather do, drag in that damn heavy machine and grind and sling or bam and go??

Most of the force of this machine does go downline and not up the vents.


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## Pipedoc (Jun 14, 2009)

Been using one for more years than I care to count. It is like any other tool. There is a time and place for everything. If you have the experience and understanding of what is going on with the drain/blockage you know when the right time to use it is. If you are being lazy and using it when you should be rodding you can count on a call back. It is just like using a blowbag for a sludge blockage in a main sewer line. You can rod until the cows come home and not open it but the blowbag will take care of it in fifteen minutes.

*Edited for typo*


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## Flyleaf (Aug 18, 2009)

(posted by me on another thread...) They also work great for blowing the dust out of computers!:thumbup: One pop and the little dust bunnies on the motherboard fan are HISTORY! 
I've used it around the house to knock those big spiders that dangle in front of the plumbing van into oblivion as well.:laughing:

I second what another person said here. I use mine a lot as well, but if I can't knock it loose with 15 pumps, it stops there. I start with 5 pumps which will very often clear a clogged lav, and work gradually up to 15 pumps. After 15 pumps it's over for the water ram. One perk is it will often pop loose an old 11/4 metal S-trap, which needs to be replaced anyways, and that helps the final bill.
I haven't had a whole lot of luck using it on toilets, but I have had luck a couple times.
I like the wow factor when you pull it out of the box. The HO is like "Ooooh that looks neat!" LOL One customer said WOW! What a caulking gun!!!!:laughing:


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## DaveClinch (Aug 3, 2009)

Plumber Jim said:


> If it is best for traps then a good 'ol plunger is all you need. I would think this thing will just pop a small hole in a glog to release the pressure.


Actually no, it comes with directional tips that ensure full pressure release in ONE direction. I've read all the negative crap about this tool and I laugh because I have unstopped 50+ Urinals with with it (If the clog is in the Urinal, or close to it), countless sinks ect. Mine is made by General and it has saved me SO MUCH TIME it isnt funny. So reading all this negative stuff about it here is really quite funny because it all seems to be coming from people that have never used one.


Its worth mentioning, I have never had a pipe bust, flange seal split or anything. I love my Water Hammer.


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

One other thing the water ram is great for is to restore proper water pressure in the potable water system. I had a call by a condo owner about poor hot water pressure in their bathtub but had great pressure at the lav sink and kitchen sinks. Also there was a utility sink in the room next to the bathroom which had great pressure.

So I turn of the water to the building close the angle stops under the kitchen, and lav sinks. Then I open the utility sink hot tap. Remove the tub spout, and the shower head, cap off the shower arm. Pump up my water ram to 100 PSI attach my water ram to the nipple for the tub spout and make sure the hot side of the bath valve is open. Snap the trigger and watch all the rust flow out of the utility sink. Restore the water flow and flush the system. Then accept all the praise for fixing their water pressure troubles without repiping.


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## DaveClinch (Aug 3, 2009)

SewerRatz said:


> One other thing the water ram is great for is to restore proper water pressure in the potable water system. I had a call by a condo owner about poor hot water pressure in their bathtub but had great pressure at the lav sink and kitchen sinks. Also there was a utility sink in the room next to the bathroom which had great pressure.
> 
> So I turn of the water to the building close the angle stops under the kitchen, and lav sinks. Then I open the utility sink hot tap. Remove the tub spout, and the shower head, cap off the shower arm. Pump up my water ram to 100 PSI attach my water ram to the nipple for the tub spout and make sure the hot side of the bath valve is open. Snap the trigger and watch all the rust flow out of the utility sink. Restore the water flow and flush the system. Then accept all the praise for fixing their water pressure troubles without repiping.


 
This is a great example as to why Plumbers should utilize WITH OPEN MINDS every tool at their disposal. My Hammer sat in the shop for three years before I noticed it. My boss and other Plumbers shunned it saying it didnt work...right. I catch 4 to 5 calls a day, sometimes stretching 400 miles and I need every advantage I can get when working to reduce time, and Urinals were, and some times still are time killer. Granted, some lines just need to be augered, no question, but 65% of the Urinals I service are unstopped with my hammer.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I used my *Kinetic Drain Ram* today. A pedestal lav, all sludged up, The water just stood in the bowl. It tied into 1.5" galvanized. My Speed Rooter wouldn't make the first bend. I got the Drain Ram and put 20 psi on it and let 'er have it. Drains like a champ now.


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## VictorPlumber (Feb 26, 2019)

SewerRatz said:


> I mostly use it for kitchen sinks that are so sludged up that you can rod till the cows come home and it will not open.


When used to unblock kitchen sink drain and kitchen drain has a dishwasher drain connected to it. 
Do you disconnect dishwasher drain hose and cap dishwasher drain connection on kitchen drain before using Kinetic Water Ram?


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## Mipipetech (Nov 2, 2020)

Been using a kwr for 20 years, it’s an amazing tool with multiple uses, I use it on steam systems regularly!


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## rooterboy (Jul 16, 2009)

Really like my kinetic water ram back to back sinks and tubs it works great. have cleared lots of stoppages with it. Even used it on a septic tank once to clear the line from the home to the tank a messy job but it cleared the line for the homeowner. Only one call back and refund I could not return to job so customer called someone else. Really happy with it. My buddy got a job that a plumber could not clear and recommended that they bust up the shower pan to clear the drain fix the problem. He quoted $700 to clear the back to back tub and shower drain homeowner agreed got out his water ram and bam job was done collected his $700 and left. He said he felt a little guilty after he left the job. he saved the customer a few thousand dollars considering what the other guy offered as a solution. When I heard this I wanted one and I bought one that was at least 25 yeas ago. It is still going strong.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

I usually sub-out my drain calls (I hate clearing drains), but lately the 2 guys I sub to, have been to busy to take on this extra work. In the last month or so, I’ve been getting a lot of drain calls, So I decided to get out the old K-50 and and clear a few drains, it’s good experience for my apprentice, Altho now I remember why I hate clearing drains..
Last week I picked up one of these KWR, for $770 cdn.
Well we used it today, plugged vanity- pumped it to 15psi, plugged the over flow and popped it, we got soaked(the PO was flat/flush to the bottom of the sink, so the rubber cone couldnt seal well, will use some rags next time), but the drain cleared instantly. 
Wow! Awesome.. I’m impressed!
Great tool, super fast and way easier then futzing with k-50, feeding the cables into the tail.. and the mess/clean up..

The only problem: 
the client was complaining that I charged him $250 for about 3 mins of work.. 
i told him, this was an expensive, high tech tool, that clears the drain without damaging the drain, piping or joints, and there is no mess to clean up.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Logtec said:


> ..and there is no mess to clean up.


Bull. I used it on a kitchen sink drain last week. Yes, I got the drain open, but the p-trap blew off and I had a bunch of water to clean up under the sink. The p-trap was only a month old and I tightened the nuts beforehand.

Don't get me wrong, the air ram has it's place. I've used it several times when nothing else worked. But you best be damn sure it won't blow black **** out of somewhere else! I may or may not have done that in the recent past......


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

It's worth noting that poking a hole and cleaning a drain are two different operations.

You can't be assured that the ram has cleared much, if any of the blockage, just re-arranged the contents. I would much rather run my mini-jetter and fully clean the drain.

Funny enough, I ran the mini-jetter today and got back 5 hickory nuts a chipmunkmust have dropped in the vent. No way the air ram would have cleared those, it was galv steel pipe and that were piled up at a 90. It would have cleared the gouk between the nuts and it would have clogged again soon when the gouk packed between the nuts again. Yes nuts are a rare clog, but many other clogs might act the same way.

Usually I tell the customer it may not be a permanent fix if I have used the ram.


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> Bull. I used it on a kitchen sink drain last week. Yes, I got the drain open, but the p-trap blew off and I had a bunch of water to clean up under the sink. The p-trap was only a month old and I tightened the nuts beforehand.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the air ram has it's place. I've used it several times when nothing else worked. But you best be damn sure it won't blow black **** out of somewhere else! I may or may not have done that in the recent past......


“No mess to clean up” as in, - dirty or greasy cables that have spun and flung crud everywhere.. nasty rags, rubber gloves, winding cables back into the reel..

“cant you just let me have this one…”
Im not getting into jetting/flushing KT drains..


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Logtec said:


> I usually sub-out my drain calls (I hate clearing drains), but lately the 2 guys I sub to, have been to busy to take on this extra work. In the last month or so, I’ve been getting a lot of drain calls, So I decided to get out the old K-50 and and clear a few drains, it’s good experience for my apprentice, Altho now I remember why I hate clearing drains..
> Last week I picked up one of these KWR, for $770 cdn.
> Well we used it today, plugged vanity- pumped it to 15psi, plugged the over flow and popped it, we got soaked(the PO was flat/flush to the bottom of the sink, so the rubber cone couldnt seal well, will use some rags next time), but the drain cleared instantly.
> Wow! Awesome.. I’m impressed!
> ...


Tell client you made a mistake it was $350.00 bucks


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

skoronesa said:


> It's worth noting that poking a hole and cleaning a drain are two different operations.
> 
> You can't be assured that the ram has cleared much, if any of the blockage, just re-arranged the contents. I would much rather run my mini-jetter and fully clean the drain.
> 
> ...


You screwed up big-time do you have definite work there ever be months


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## Logtec (Jun 3, 2018)

KWR +1 = plugged laundry tub.
I capped the stand pipe with a fernco cap, and had my apprentice plug the KT sink(on the first floor- above), then fill it 1/2 way and hold the plug down with a rag.

I filled the bottom of the LT with about an 1” of water, then shot the KWR at:
10lbs.. nothing,
15lbs, glugg..
20lbs and it cleared..

Sparky- told the client this was some new super tech, on the test market.. no mess, no “NASTY” chemicals, no risk to the pipe/drain..
Charged $300


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## sparky (Jan 8, 2014)

Logtec said:


> KWR +1 = plugged laundry tub.
> I capped the stand pipe with a fernco cap, and had my apprentice plug the KT sink(on the first floor- above), then fill it 1/2 way and hold the plug down with a rag.
> 
> I filled the bottom of the LT with about an 1” of water, then shot the KWR at:
> ...


Excellent,only way to fly lolololo


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