# Kerdi shower units....



## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Kerdi--Schluter systems

Has anyone actually installed some thing like this???

I just got an education on U-tube about this shower stall 
system that seems to be the rage with do-it -yourselfers....

If you have the time watch this instruction video to see how they install the water proof membrane in this shower...they literally tape the seams together with thin set morter..... They install a floor flange into morter mud and press it down flush into the base.... 

perhaps I am wrong but if this is not a recipe for disaster I cant imagine a worse way to install tile and a shower base.....


I am pretty old school and I remember installing lead shower pans
with my dad way back in the 60s... We have installed many vinyl rubber membrane shower pans and concrete floors over the years and I can pick out the flaws in this system with both my eyes closed....


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

here is another shower system install, I dont think you will get the longevity ( 40 plus years)out of these systems as you would a lead or pvc pan, but they are designed for the homeowner to do it..but nowa days people think when the bathroom is 15 years old they need to remodel, so that could be the expected life span...and the cost of them is not cheap, but again if handy homeowner can save from paying a plumber to install they save $$ in their mind...


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

Oh, my god........ that system is actually even worse than the one I posted...... Someone weighing 300 gets in that shower and I guarantee that tile will come loose in no time.....

that system cannot work for very long.... but I wonder what that red guard paint sealant is....



I recently just made a jack leg repair to a neo angle shower unit that has a styrofoam base... the drain was leaking down through the hole into the basement and there was no way to actually make a repair to this shower without tearing it out.... I took a commercial Smith floor drain I had laying around since about 1990 and applied a huge amount of silicone to the lip and 
glued it up to the underside of the concrete board under the styrofoam....
then strapped it in place and ran a drain....
It appears to work for now..... 

i got to post some pics of this nightmare....






I can see some good uses for that red-guard paint.. I have been looking for some sort of water proof sealant that can be painted on pitting copper drain lines to make a temporary seal or at least postpone changing out the whole pipe.....


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Master Mark said:


> I can see some good uses for that red-guard paint.. I have been looking for some sort of water proof sealant that can be painted on pitting copper drain lines to make a temporary seal or at least postpone changing out the whole pipe.....


dont laugh now..but gorilla tape wrapped around any cracked or split pipe will hold for a very long time( many weeks) till it can be replaced, just overlap each time you come around the pipe, its way cheaper than that redguard stuff and you can span a crack in the pipe, the redguard stuff cant cover any gaps..


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

The Kerdi system is used a lot around here. My favorite tile guy used it in my basement bathroom last year. It is a well designed system imo.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

dhal22 said:


> The Kerdi system is used a lot around here. My favorite tile guy used it in my basement bathroom last year. It is a well designed system imo.


the one problem I see with it, is using thinset to use as a sealant, it hardens to a brittle non flexible cement, so if there are any settling in the floor or shift in the walls as so many houses do, it will crack instead of flexing like a shower pan liner...


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

I have seen a few in my area. There are other bonding methods than just the plain thin set.

Overall I think it is a nice system. All systems will have joints or seams in them.

Schluter®-KERDI-DS is a bonded waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder with very low water vapor permeance for use in continuous use steam rooms and similar applications. 
Various KERDI waterproofing accessories are available. Use KERDI-BAND, in widths of 5" (12.5 cm), 7-1/4" (18.5 cm), or 10" (25 cm) to seal butt joints or corner joints. KERDI-FLEX, in 5" (12.5 cm) or 10" (25 cm) widths, is used to seal expansion joints or flexible edge joints.
Schluter®-KERDI-KERS-B are preformed, seamless corners for waterproofing 135(deg) angles between triangular shower benches and walls or tops of curbs in neo-angle shower applications. Schluter®-KERDI-KERS are preformed, seamless corners made of KERDI for waterproofing floor/wall/shower base connections in curbless shower applications where the KERDI-LINE linear drain is installed adjacent to the wall. 
KERDI-SEAL-PS/-MV are prefabricated sections of KERDI with overmolded rubber gaskets that are used to seal pipe protrusions through the KERDI waterproofing membrane (e.g., at showerheads and tub spouts) and protect moisture-sensitive backing panels at the mixing valve.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> the one problem I see with it, is using thinset to use as a sealant, it hardens to a brittle non flexible cement, so if there are any settling in the floor or shift in the walls as so many houses do, it will crack instead of flexing like a shower pan liner...



The Kerdi stuff might last a while but there is really no comparison to a old fashioned vinyl membrane installed 
under a concrete base with the sides lapping up about 10 inches.

with concrete board on the walls it will last probably 50 + years...
I doubt the Kerdi system will make it 10..

The red Guard stuff is really a total joke with the styrofoam board 
for a base and tile set onto that..... 
You get Two heavy set people into that
shower and they start going at it doggy-style and I guarantee 
the drain will come loose and start leaking.....:yes:
..


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

Master Mark said:


> You get Two heavy set people into that
> shower and they start going at it doggy-style and I guarantee
> the drain will come loose and start leaking.....:yes:
> ..


that wasnt the vision I wanted over morning coffee...
you cant unthink that scene...lmao....


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

I spoke to my tile and bath outlet in town called
Allen Clay Tile and they claim the kerdi stuff has been pretty good
for about 15 years now.... They also sell that red board stuff too
and claim its not too bad either......


Actually we have not been in that game 
for probably about 10 years now, so I am out of touch... 

They use it mostly because of the labor savings and the owner of the place claims he has not had any issues what so ever with it......


I am just stuck in the past even though I doubt the stuff will outlast the original vinyl base with concrete


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned hot mop pans. 
Because Schluter is a complete system, it's best handled entirely by the tile guy.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I've done a ton of Kerdi showers and I've done a lot of custom designs with Hydroban(I prefer hydroban). Done properly they out preform a traditional shower system in every way. I use mortar beds in all my showers, not a big fan of the remade bases do to hollow sound after being installed. I do use the premade curbs.


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## JohnnieSqueeze (Mar 23, 2016)

Always built our own pans. Havent had a leak yet. Used hydroguard with fiberglass 
Then slope mud to drain then second hydroguard to weep holes then 1/2" slop mud to drain and yes 2x12 blocking a perimeter. Form our curbs instead of float by hand. Easier and straiter for tile guys. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## example123 (Feb 12, 2017)

I can see some good uses for that red-guard paint

http://waterdamagerestorationtips.com/


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

example123 said:


> I can see some good uses for that red-guard paint
> 
> http://sorryforthespam.com/


I can see some good uses for the introduction section. You should check it out. Post one if you feel you really belong here.


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

example123 said:


> I can see some good uses for that red-guard paint
> 
> http://waterdamagerestorationtips.com/



I am gonna get a gallon of the stuff for a customer I have who has the beginnings of small corrosion pits in his copper drain lines throughout his basement...
I think if he paints the whole copper drain line red it might actually extend the life of the copper .... it cost about 110 a gallon.....

I have no idea how long it will last...


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Ouch, $110 a gallon. Try that flex seal or flex tape, as seen on TV, if they want to go the cheap hack route.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Master Mark said:


> Kerdi--Schluter systems
> 
> Has anyone actually installed some thing like this???
> 
> ...


I haven't done an old style shower pan in 10 or more years. All the tile guys are using Kerdi. Most aren't using the styrofoam sloped base under it, but they are using the styrofoam curb. And these aren't fly-by-night tile guys. If it didn't hold up well they wouldn't be using it.

When I first saw Kerdi I thought, like you do, that it was crap. "It's built out of styrofoam!! WTF!?" But it seems to work pretty well. I've water tested lots of Kerdi pans and only found one with a leak so far (tile guy came back and redid it and it passed second test).


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## MDservices (May 9, 2016)

I've heard nothing but great reviews from installers and clients about the kerdi schluter system.. I wanted to learn how to do it but alas, I'm not gonna start doing tiles and all that crap so no thanks. 

I usually laydown a membrane and do it oldschool and never had an issue. A lot of new plumbers don't know how to do that anymore it seems...

The only thing I don't like about the schluter is often you leave the final drain connection up to the schluter installer rather than the plumber himself... just the way it all gets installed, often its the tile guy who hooks it up to your drains.. at least in my experience, which I'm never a fan of that.


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