# Cleaning up after one of my peers.



## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

This house was a train wreck from start to finish -- I'm not going to name names, but one of my well respected peers plumbed this bathroom 4 years ago.

I went there for a simple Zuma tub installation and to pull new 3/4" feeds from the basement -- The water feeds for this floor were 80 year old 1/2" galvanized.

The trap for the original tub fell apart in my hands, so we had to pull up more flooring and this is what I found.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

It's a work in progress, but here is the reworked drains and vents.

The homeowner didn't want to pull up more of the floor, so I left the 1-1/2" drain servicing 2 lavs and a bar sink in place.

I could have taken the 2" a bit further, but I didn't want to tear up the floor joists anymore than they already were.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I see your pics are looking good....


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Hey it looked good when I was plumbing it from the basement ceiling


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Hey it looked good when I was plumbing it from the basement ceiling


 I was trying to keep your name out of this, OS.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> ...but one of my well respected peers plumbed this bathroom...


That's enough to cause a nice kitten to make an angry face.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

That looks like a big improvement in quality. I gotta ask, why do you have the flange on already? Doesn't that make it hard on the floor installer, not to mention getting it set at the right elevation? I use a 4x3 closet bend, stub up the 4" well above the finished floor then cut flush and install a 4x3 flange on the tile.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

Belowme said:


> looks like sh!t thats hack work at best....get a real job no wonder your boy pinky never posts pics im sure his work is way worse than yours...
> 
> loser


That's constuctive:blink:


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## Qball415 (Nov 20, 2010)

Just curious what the fitting is adjacent to the w/c flange? Plumbing looks PRO by the way.:thumbsup:


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Whats up with laying those 90's on the flat like that


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

gitnerdun said:


> That looks like a big improvement in quality. I gotta ask, why do you have the flange on already? Doesn't that make it hard on the floor installer, not to mention getting it set at the right elevation? I use a 4x3 closet bend, stub up the 4" well above the finished floor then cut flush and install a 4x3 flange on the tile.


 The closet flange isn't glued on yet. The finished floor height hasn't been established yet, so I was checking to make sure it would work with minimum build up.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

gitnerdun said:


> That's constuctive:blink:


 That's just the Giggity Boi's way of saying "Nice job, Widdershins".


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

CoCo Plumbing said:


> Just curious what the fitting is adjacent to the w/c flange? Plumbing looks PRO by the way.:thumbsup:


 To the right? 

It's a 2"x1-1/2" reducing coupling. The 1-1/2" line is picking up a pair of lavs and a bar sink -- I wanted to redo the whole line in 2", but the HO balked at pulling up more flooring and opening up the wall where the lavs were roughed-in.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Whats up with laying those 90's on the flat like that


The 2 perfectly graded long sweep 90's?

You're shiotting me, right?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> The 2 perfectly graded long sweep 90's?
> 
> You're shiotting me, right?


I wouldn't shiot you....

That there is bad workmanship.... Now go back and try and snake that line and you will see what I am talking about


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> That's enough to cause a nice kitten to make an angry face.


 I golf with this guy fairly regularly -- I wouldn't exactly call him a close friend, but we've known each other for over 30 years. It's going to be a little difficult viewing him as a peer after this is all said and done.

Most of the vent fittings weren't even glued, including the vent coming up from the kitchen down below you see in the joist bay to the right of the WC.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> I wouldn't shiot you....
> 
> That there is bad workmanship.... Now go back and try and snake that line and you will see what I am talking about


 It being an existing line the HO was loathe to reroute, how would you have run it, OS?


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## gitnerdun (Nov 5, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> I wouldn't shiot you....
> 
> That there is bad workmanship.... Now go back and try and snake that line and you will see what I am talking about


You are kidding right? My k-50 has no trouble with that. Code allows here. :thumbup:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

gitnerdun said:


> You are kidding right? My k-50 has no trouble with that. Code allows here. :thumbup:


 His code does too.

He's just pissed at Protech and looking for a fight.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

a few quick things I noticed

butchering of the floor joist and bottom wall plate
the 1/2" drop ear ell
the DVW tee's
crapy work


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> a few quick things I noticed
> 
> butchering of the floor joist and bottom wall plate
> the 1/2" drop ear ell
> ...


 Duh.

Hence me coming in, cutting it all out and making it right.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Duh.
> 
> Hence me coming in, cutting it all out and making it right.


 
then fix the floor joist or someone might fall through the floor.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> then fix the floor joist or someone might fall through the floor.


 Not my job.

Latest scuttlebutt has the floor being reinforced with car decking.

I'll believe that when I see it.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

My Mini Rooter would have no problem navigating those sweeps..

Nice work Mr. WS.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> then fix the floor joist or someone might fall through the floor.


We have to fix flooring too?

That's news to me...


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

God made 22's to get you out of a monumental clusterfuch, not to throw in at your leisure...

Looks good, Wid. Didn't know y'all used ABS down there...


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

U666A said:


> God made 22's to get you out of a monumental clusterfuch, not to throw in at your leisure...
> 
> Looks good, Wid. Didn't know y'all used ABS down there...


 I usually don't, but some remodels force you to switch gears.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

GREENPLUM said:


> then fix the floor joist or someone might fall through the floor.


 Like a fat Olde Plumber?

Almost, but I caught myself on the towel bar and narrowly averted disaster.

They're going to need a new towel bar, btw.:laughing:


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> To the right?
> 
> It's a 2"x1-1/2" reducing coupling. The 1-1/2" line is picking up a pair of lavs and a bar sink -- I wanted to redo the whole line in 2", but the HO balked at pulling up more flooring and opening up the wall where the lavs were roughed-in.


 
tsk tsk tsk. You cant dump a bar sink through a bathroom group.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

house plumber said:


> tsk tsk tsk. You cant dump a bar sink through a bathroom group.


 You can if all of the trap arms are individually vented.

Sky's pretty much the limit during layout if you vent each trap arm.

I easily spent twice as much time laying out a 2 bath rambler in Gulf Port, Miss as I did laying out a 6 bath McMansion here in Seattle.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> You can if all of the trap arms are individually vented.
> 
> Sky's pretty much the limit during layout if you vent each trap arm.
> 
> I easily spent twice as much time laying out a 2 bath rambler in Gulf Port, Miss as I did laying out a 6 bath McMansion here in Seattle.


pffft, 6 bath. The main house has 14 water closets, 1 urinal, pool bath 3 water closets and 2 urinals, guest house 3 water closets. The pool is the largest residential pool in fl.


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

house plumber said:


> pffft, 6 bath. The main house has 14 water closets, 1 urinal, pool bath 3 water closets and 2 urinals, guest house 3 water closets. The pool is the largest residential pool in fl.
> 
> View attachment 10817


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Pay attention to how much the ad was for them to put in the paper.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/22/Business/Builder_gets_a_surpri.shtml


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

house plumber said:


> pffft, 6 bath. The main house has 14 water closets, 1 urinal, pool bath 3 water closets and 2 urinals, guest house 3 water closets. The pool is the largest residential pool in fl.


What I want to know is why did they build that place out in a swamp instead of on a waterfront property? :laughing:

Did the guy scrimp on cash when he was buying the property?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

It's not really a swamp it's just trees the seperate a golf course. It's really a neighborhood for the elite. He's just the only one that built there. His taxes are $180,000 a year. Matt Gyger used to own the property. he used to have bison in there so he would get a tax break on it.


For those who don't know Gyger was a basketball player. The next pick is the whole neighborhood and to the right with the yellow circle was Gygers house. He just sold it for 8 million.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)




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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Pretty ritzy joint you're working on House Plumber. Those are some high falutin' rich folks right there.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

The house has been finished since 2006. They lived in it for almost a year. They got divorced. He still lives there but the divorce settlement said he had to build her a new house. Hers is only 11,000 sq ft. Sorry for the thread hijack. Great work WS.



Tommy plumber said:


> Pretty ritzy joint you're working on House Plumber. Those are some high falutin' rich folks right there.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

house plumber said:


> tsk tsk tsk. You cant dump a bar sink through a bathroom group.


huh?


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

Read 909.1 its about mid paragraph



Protech said:


> huh?


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Matt Gyger, I have to say, that I used to love that show. He could make a nuclear device out of a paper clip.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

He can make a bomb from hand lotion and a tampon.



SlickRick said:


> Matt Gyger, I have to say, that I used to love that show. He could make a nuclear device out of a paper clip.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

I read 909.1 and it seemed to be specific about 2 bathroom groups on one wet vented lateral....


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

stillaround said:


> I read 909.1 and it seemed to be specific about 2 bathroom groups on one wet vented lateral....


I'm on my phone right now but it basically says at the last sentence that says anything other than the 2 bathroom groups must be caught down stream


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

*909.1 Horizontal wet vent permitted.* Any combination of fixtures within two bathroom groups located on the same floor level is permitted to be vented by a horizontal wet vent. The wet vent shall be considered the vent for the fixtures and shall extend from the connection of the dry vent along the direction of the flow in the drain pipe to the most downstream fixture drain connection to the horizontal branch drain.* Only the fixtures within the bathroom groups shall connect to the wet-vented horizontal branch drain. Any additional fixtures shall discharge downstream of the horizontal wet vent. *


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Im not saying you arent right..just funny that the mention of between 2 bathroom groups is the keywording to me and I would think a bar sink, or any other similar discharging fixture could be inserted in a bathroom group as long as it wasnt between 2 bathroom groups.....


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Im not saying you arent right..just funny that the mention of between 2 bathroom groups is the keywording to me and I would think a bar sink, or any other similar discharging fixture could be inserted in a bathroom group as long as it wasnt between 2 bathroom groups.....


Its saying that 2 bathroom groups are max on one wet vent. Anything other than the 2 groups must discharge downstream of the trunk line for those groups


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

So was Widdershins picture a wet vent between 2 bathroom groups?....Knight to King bishop 3 ...check!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I wonder what the reasoning is behind that code.


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

stillaround said:


> So was Widdershins picture a wet vent between 2 bathroom groups?....Knight to King bishop 3 ...check!


it doesnt have to be between. it can be at the very end and you can catch everything after that with no other vents. That one vent on the end makes that whole trunk line vented. This is Fl code now.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

Im not sure..but they wouldnt want a washing machine discharge in between because it could fill up the line enough with suds and the like to block the wet vent....


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

True, but a bar sink flows no more than a lavatory.



stillaround said:


> Im not sure..but they wouldnt want a washing machine discharge in between because it could fill up the line enough with suds and the like to block the wet vent....


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

So this is how it's done here. If I tie anything else in that's not within the bathroom group(s) it must be tied in somewhere in the big circle or downstream even more obviously. I'm not sure protech why or where they got that from.


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

house plumber said:


> it doesnt have to be between. it can be at the very end and you can catch everything after that with no other vents. That one vent on the end makes that whole trunk line vented. This is Fl code now.


Bear with me hp I might be missing something here. I interpret that paragraph as saying the wet vent between the 2 bathroom groups can have no other fixture entering in, purpose being?..thats the max they want on a wet vent between 2 bathroom groups. 

I need a schematic..( already done I see)
My question..if its just one bathroom group a fixture can be inserted in the bottom bar if properly vented..


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## Optimus Primer (May 20, 2009)

stillaround said:


> Bear with me hp I might be missing something here. I interpret that paragraph as saying the wet vent between the 2 bathroom groups can have no other fixture entering in, purpose being?..thats the max they want on a wet vent between 2 bathroom groups.
> 
> I need a schematic..( already done I see)
> My question..if its just one bathroom group a fixture can be inserted in the bottom bar if properly vented..


Its not saying a wet vent between 2 groups. Its saying 1 wet vent will vent 2 groups. If I put the vent at the end like i drew or between the last 2 fixtures, I can run however far I want and dump as much as I want in my trunk line as long as I dont exceed my DFU's. Nothing else can tie into that trunk line. Only on the main which would be downstream of where my groups tied into the main. If you go to the pictures i posted in the pic thread you'll see a 3x2 combo. That catches the laundry. Its downstream of my next 3" combo which catches a bathroom. On the backside of that 3 inch combo it turns and hits another bathroom


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

Also add to that that a wet bar is not included on the definition of a bathroom group...

If its not a tub toilet shower lavy or bidet it can't be apart of a bathroom group


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

house plumber said:


> Its not saying a wet vent between 2 groups. Its saying 1 wet vent will vent 2 groups. If I put the vent at the end like i drew or between the last 2 fixtures, I can run however far I want and dump as much as I want in my trunk line as long as I dont exceed my DFU's. Nothing else can tie into that trunk line. Only on the main which would be downstream of where my groups tied into the main. If you go to the pictures i posted in the pic thread you'll see a 3x2 combo. That catches the laundry. Its downstream of my next 3" combo which catches a bathroom. On the backside of that 3 inch combo it turns and hits another bathroom


 Or y'all could just dry vent the bar sink (which it was) and save yourselves all of this head scratching.

Here's the reality -- It takes more than twice the time to lay out a wet vented system than it does to lay out a dry vented system.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Widdershins said:


> Or y'all could just dry vent the bar sink (which it was) and save yourselves all of this head scratching.
> 
> Here's the reality -- It takes more than twice the time to lay out a wet vented system than it does to lay out a dry vented system.


 




Right. Venting shmenting, vents aren't necessary. Like tonsils, appendix and the liver, who needs 'em?...:laughing:


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

If you were to add up fixture units for a bathroom group, they would be 4 for a tank type wc, 1-1/2 for a tub or shower, or tub shower combo, 1 for a lavatory basin,

All added up separately, the total fixture units would equal 6-1/2... 

But you can call it a "bathroom group", and call it only 6 fu's...

Not sure that this is tremendously relevant, but I just thought I would add it to the conversation... Does anyone else work under the laxidasical attitude anymore? It seems that is all about making the code less stringent, which is easier on the handy hacks, and harder on not only you legitimate business owners, but also to our general membership of employed persons...


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

The lower dfu total is due to the fact that in most cases of a defined bathroom group you will not be using all fixtures at one time... It's more about reality and the code reflecting it...


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

plumb nutz said:


> The lower dfu total is due to the fact that in most cases of a defined bathroom group you will not be using all fixtures at one time... It's more about reality and the code reflecting it...


Yes, I understand that... 

A friend of mine used to joke that he would warm up the shower while sitting on the John (which prompted a flush of course) all the while filling the lav basin for an "open pore" shave...

Is it still 6 FU's? He would ask?

This was during our UA mandated apprentice training courses through the JATC. The instructor really liked my buddy "Tiny"...


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