# GMC Value Van(step van) Rebuild



## Will

I have a 1993 GMC Value Van. I'll upload a few pics of it later today. I've been on the frence for some time now about buying a new vichicle or another used. I keep coming back to my Step Van. The body is in great shape, looks professional, is great for advertising, can carry alot of cargo etc. It makes a great service vichicle, alothough the milage sucks (5-10 mpg). 

It currantly has a Chevy 350 not sure on the trany(maybe a 4I60E). My plain is to install a new crate engine, new trany, new brakes, replace hoses, install new exhaust and manufolds. Basicaly make the truck allmost new again. I think I can do thisfor closeto around 10K which is a hell of alot cheaper than a new van or truck. 

I've got a few few conserns on the 350. I feel it is under powered and feel I could get better mileage and power if I when which a 454 instead or even a small diesel, but I don't want to do anything crazy. 

Anyone done a project like this before, and did it turn out like you expected?


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> I have a 1993 GMC Value Van. I'll upload a few pics of it later today. I've been on the frence for some time now about buying a new vichicle or another used. I keep coming back to my Step Van. The body is in great shape, looks professional, is great for advertising, can carry alot of cargo etc. It makes a great service vichicle, alothough the milage sucks (5-10 mpg).
> 
> It currantly has a Chevy 350 not sure on the trany(maybe a 4I60E). My plain is to install a new crate engine, new trany, new brakes, replace hoses, install new exhaust and manufolds. Basicaly make the truck allmost new again. I think I can do thisfor closeto around 10K which is a hell of alot cheaper than a new van or truck.
> 
> I've got a few few conserns on the 350. I feel it is under powered and feel I could get better mileage and power if I when which a 454 instead or even a small diesel, but I don't want to do anything crazy.
> 
> Anyone done a project like this before, and did it turn out like you expected?


A 350 is more than enough. At about 175K miles I replaced the 350 in my 16 footer with the smaller 305 V8. No noticeable loss in performance for around town service. It is more about the transmission than the motor. It did okay pulling a trailer but that was very rare for me.


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## Will

I guess I'm more consurned about the mileage than I am about the power. Thought maybe a bigger engine might be more efficent since it's such a large vehicle.


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## justme

Go with a 350 4 bolt main engine and a 400 tranny. Does your current tranny have over drive? If it does then more than likely it is a 700r4 in that year model. Those transmissions are very reliable . If its not an overdrive then it probably has a 400 which is a very tough transmission. Good luck either way.


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> I guess I'm more consurned about the mileage than I am about the power. Thought maybe a bigger engine might be more efficent since it's such a large vehicle.


If you are concerned about mileage, you are wasting your time on the step van. JMO.


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## justme

Just looked it up it does have the 4l60 OD transmission .


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## Will

Here is the thing. I paid 2k for the Step Van in earlier 2012. It's paid foritself many times over just in drain cleaning calls. The mileage does suck(realy don't even know what it gets as the guage does't work). If I sink 12K into this van and it gets 7 mpg I still feel like I'm ahead since I don't have a truck payment or didn't speand 30-40k on a new van. Of course if I can get it to 10mpg Id love to. Or even convert to CNG, but at the moment that sems to be too much of a cost to do.


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> Here is the thing. I paid 2k for the Step Van in earlier 2012. It's paid foritself many times over just in drain cleaning calls. The mileage does suck(realy don't even know what it gets as the guage does't work). If I sink 12K into this van and it gets 7 mpg I still feel like I'm ahead since I don't have a truck payment or didn't speand 30-40k on a new van. Of course if I can get it to 10mpg Id love to. Or even convert to CNG, but at the moment that sems to be too much of a cost to do.


Mine got 6mpg. Both motors.


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## alberteh

No matter how you slice it if you are going to be moving X pounds around in a giant air filled box the fuel economy is going to be horrible. we just don't have the engine technology currently to be very efficient.

good luck though.


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## deerslayer

Will said:


> Here is the thing. I paid 2k for the Step Van in earlier 2012. It's paid foritself many times over just in drain cleaning calls. The mileage does suck(realy don't even know what it gets as the guage does't work). If I sink 12K into this van and it gets 7 mpg I still feel like I'm ahead since I don't have a truck payment or didn't speand 30-40k on a new van. Of course if I can get it to 10mpg Id love to. Or even convert to CNG, but at the moment that sems to be too much of a cost to do.


If you can find a good mechanic to do a Cummins conversion that would be your best bet! But for 10k you can buy a newer step van with a cummins and an allison which is an almost bulletproof combo. They will have alot of miles but they seem to last forever and from what I hear most guys average 12 mpg with a 16' loaded


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## Will

Problem with the 3.9 cummins is they cost about 10k themselves. Then you got to get a new trany and to the conversation to diesel and pay a mechanic. I ain't sink 20k into this vehicle


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## johnlewismcleod

I'd recommend doing the math on fuel economy :yes:

If you'll be getting 7 MPG sticking with gas, then multiply that by the average fuel consumption you've been using per month and then project your fuel expenses for four more years.

Then do it for diesel at 12 mpg for four more years (although you will actually get 8 more years with diesel).

See what the difference really is  

Often people forget to properly calculate fuel economy into the expense of a vehicle...it adds up huge savings over the lifespan of a vehicle :yes:


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## rocksteady

I like the idea of a diesel conversion. Guys always say that diesels are too expensive and it's not worth it but like John just said, do the math.

I know that the money I spent on my van has nearly paid for itself. I got 7.5 mpg with my old van and 11.4 mpg with my new. In the almost 2 years I've had it, I've just about covered the cost with the added fuel economy. I've had a few hundred in repairs that I wouldn't have with a gas engine but otherwise, no major added expenses. Maybe find a rusted out Powerstroke or Cummins to scavange the drivetrain?





Paul


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## Drumma Plumma

Diesel is about $1/gal more in Chicago right now. I'm glad I stayed with gas this last year.

There are some smaller step vans out there that have a cummins in them. Very hard To find though.

What about a cab over box truck like Mitsubishi Fuso?


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## johnlewismcleod

Drumma Plumma said:


> Diesel is about $1/gal more in Chicago right now. I'm glad I stayed with gas this last year....


The difference in fuel cost is covered under the "do the math" heading 

My boss just bought me a new Mercedes Sprinter for 50K, but with the miles I put up running his calls he is saving lots of money over a gas engine due to the difference in fuel economy :yes:

For example...I average about 90 miles per week running calls:

(90 miles/7 mpg) x $3.00 per gallon x 156 weeks per year x 4 years = $24,068.57 for gas for four years.

(90/12 mpg) x $4.00 per gallon x 156 weeks per year x 4 years = $18,720.00 for diesel for four years

24,068.57 - 18,720.00 = $5348.57 savings over four years.

But diesels actually give more than double the service life of gas engines (more likely triple)...so the actual savings should be calculated for 8 years at $10,697.14.

And this doesn't figure in the premium you will pay to replace that gas engine vehicle with another gas engine vehicle after only about four years of service.


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## justme

you could always step up to the 400 small block. Also if your not on the highway alot you could put the 400 tranny it. That would give you more power with about the same gas mileage.


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## Drumma Plumma

johnlewismcleod said:


> The difference in fuel cost is covered under the "do the math" heading
> 
> My boss just bought me a new Mercedes Sprinter for 50K, but with the miles I put up running his calls he is saving lots of money over a gas engine due to the difference in fuel economy :yes:


It depends on the vehicle and which diesel. I drive a silverado 2500. The diesel version was $8K more and only got about 5 mpg more (V8 diesel for GM).
I did the math. For me, diesel was a about $0.01 cheaper per mile on fuel alone. Now add in the cost of the upgrade.

Sprinter runs an inline 5 cyl diesel. Totally different beast than a Duramax or Cummins. I needed a quad cab vehicle though.

Fuel should be built into overhead anyway. I don't really pay for fuel, the customer does. It's built into my hourly rate.


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## ChrisConnor

Those year 350s were only in the low 200 hp range, not that you can expect much performance out of a breadbox. The axle gearing is going to make more impact on your gas mileage than anything. I used to drive a 91 chevy 350ci step van for service and I didn't like it. 

I'd put as little as possible in a 20 year old truck and use it as a back up. You can get much newer diesel NPR box trucks in the 14k range with better fuel economy and turning radius. You got a good deal on it, even if not used for service, just wrapping it and using it as a mobile billboard makes it a great investment.


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## rocksteady

Here's my math.

I bought my current truck in Feb of 2011 and have since put about 30k on it. I paid $6,500 for it. So...


30k at 11.4 mpg = 2631.6 gallons of diesel

Diesel is currently $4 per gallon but for this I'll average $4.50 to cover the fluctuating prices over the last year and a half. That comes out to $11,842 spent on fuel.


In my old van I got 7.5 mpg so 30k at 7.5 mpg = 4000 gallons of regular gasoline.

Regular is about $3.80 right now but I'll use $4.30 to cover the fluctuating prices, same as for the diesel. That comes out to $17,00 spend on fuel.

I've been able to spread oil changes out a bit with the diesel so those costs aren't as high as you might think. I've changed the oil in the diesel 5 times in that time and would have done the gas engine about 8 times. I currently spend about $70 per oil change with the diesel. Gas oil changes cost me about $25. So, diesel oil changes over the last 30k are about $350 and gas would have been $200; only 150 bucks more. 

So, to compare just fuel and oil costs for my van. $17,200 plus $200 for the old gas guzzler and $11,842 plus $350 for the diesel. $17,400 - $12,192 = $5,308 saved on fuel and oil. That is only $1,200 shy of paying for the entire van and the shipping to get it to me. If you're planning on a truck for the long haul, the fuel savings can really add up.







Paul


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## johnlewismcleod

rocksteady said:


> Here's my math.
> 
> I bought my current truck in Feb of 2011 and have since put about 30k on it. I paid $6,500 for it. So...
> 
> 
> 30k at 11.4 mpg = 2631.6 gallons of diesel
> 
> Diesel is currently $4 per gallon but for this I'll average $4.50 to cover the fluctuating prices over the last year and a half. That comes out to $11,842 spent on fuel.
> 
> 
> In my old van I got 7.5 mpg so 30k at 7.5 mpg = 4000 gallons of regular gasoline.
> 
> Regular is about $3.80 right now but I'll use $4.30 to cover the fluctuating prices, same as for the diesel. That comes out to $17,00 spend on fuel.
> 
> I've been able to spread oil changes out a bit with the diesel so those costs aren't as high as you might think. I've changed the oil in the diesel 5 times in that time and would have done the gas engine about 8 times. I currently spend about $70 per oil change with the diesel. Gas oil changes cost me about $25. So, diesel oil changes over the last 30k are about $350 and gas would have been $200; only 150 bucks more.
> 
> So, to compare just fuel and oil costs for my van. $17,200 plus $200 for the old gas guzzler and $11,842 plus $350 for the diesel. $17,400 - $12,192 = $5,308 saved on fuel and oil. That is only $1,200 shy of paying for the entire van and the shipping to get it to me. If you're planning on a truck for the long haul, the fuel savings can really add up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul


My new Mercedes Sprinter gets 20 mpg and has more "pep" than my last gas engine van which got 8 mpg. The math on that difference is so stark it makes me wonder why all service shops aren't driving Mercedes :yes:


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## karr

My car have 30-33 mpg, gasoline, with engine from amerikan kids toy. 
But it isnt track or van.


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## johnlewismcleod

karr said:


> My car have 30-33 mpg, gasoline, with engine from amerikan kids toy.
> But it isnt track or van.


Office jockeys  


:jester::laughing:


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## karr

http://m.nissan.co.uk/intro?vehicleId=1389350&isPassenger=true&md2psid=4-135749895312858960


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## ChrisConnor

The new low-sulfur diesels that have been manufactured since '07 are not like the diesels of old. I've read on some diesel forums that the new diesel fuel lacks the lubricity of the old stuff and some drivers are adding two cycle oil to their fuel mixes to protect the engines and are getting better fuel economy to boot.


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## gear junkie

Will said:


> Here is the thing. I paid 2k for the Step Van in earlier 2012. It's paid foritself many times over just in drain cleaning calls. The mileage does suck(*realy don't even know what it gets as the guage does't work*). If I sink 12K into this van and it gets 7 mpg I still feel like I'm ahead since I don't have a truck payment or didn't speand 30-40k on a new van. Of course if I can get it to 10mpg Id love to. Or even convert to CNG, but at the moment that sems to be too much of a cost to do.


Go to a pump and fill up until the nozzle clicks...no overfilling. Record your odometer mileage or reset your trip mileage at this time. Let's say it's at 1000. At the next fill up, go to the same pump you went to last time.....and fill up until it clicks. Let's say your odometer is at 1500 miles now and you used 5 gallons of gas. 1500(new miles)-1000(original miles)=500(miles driven) divided by 5 gallons(what it took for you to reach original level)...100 mpg. Obviously used round numbers for easy math but I'm sure you get the point. I'll do this 3 times before I'm sure what my mpg is.


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## gear junkie

Not sure where you buy you stuff for step vans but I go through Mill Supply. If anyone has any other vendors, I'd be interested to hear.


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## plbgbiz

johnlewismcleod said:


> My new Mercedes Sprinter gets 20 mpg and has more "pep" than my last gas engine van which got 8 mpg. The math on that difference is so stark it makes me wonder why all service shops aren't driving Mercedes :yes:


Probably because they are getting a lot of bad durability reviews. True or not, it is what I hear most often.


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## Mississippiplum

deerslayer said:


> If you can find a good mechanic to do a Cummins conversion that would be your best bet! But for 10k you can buy a newer step van with a cummins and an allison which is an almost bulletproof combo. They will have alot of miles but they seem to last forever and from what I hear most guys average 12 mpg with a 16' loaded


Amen, exactly what I was gonna say

Sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## U666A

karr said:


> http://m.nissan.co.uk/intro?vehicleId=1389350&isPassenger=true&md2psid=4-135749895312858960


"Hi, I'm a Canadian who was reading a thread on fuel economy written by an American when a Russian suggested I test drive your vehicle in Great Britain..."

:Laughing:


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## johnlewismcleod

plbgbiz said:


> Probably because they are getting a lot of bad durability reviews. True or not, it is what I hear most often.



Only time will tell on that, but I will say that Fed Ex has switched to Mercedes Sprinters for all new trucks and I'm seeing lots of other big outfits doing the same.


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## Will

johnlewismcleod said:


> Only time will tell on that, but I will say that Fed Ex has switched to Mercedes Sprinters for all new trucks and I'm seeing lots of other big outfits doing the same.


Difference there is fedex has in house diesel mechanics, most Plumbing shop s dont. Diesels break down too, and they aren't cheap to fix. Here diesel is about a dollar more per gal more than gas. You don't save much on milage. If my step van got 8 mpg, that would be the aame as getting 12 mpg in diesel


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## Drumma Plumma

Will said:


> Difference there is fedex has in house diesel mechanics, most Plumbing shop s dont. Diesels break down too, and they aren't cheap to fix. Here diesel is about a dollar more per gal more than gas. You don't save much on milage. If my step van got 8 mpg, that would be the aame as getting 12 mpg in diesel


That was the same for me. 

I had a Chevy 305 for years that was easy to work on. Most mechanically inclined people can work on the older style gm drive trains with relative ease.


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## Will

You also have to think how much a fedex driver drives. There saving on mileage greatly off sets the cost of owner ship of a diesel when they drive hundreds of miles per day


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## plbgbiz

If you really want to get down to brass tacks on math...forget working on the old truck.

Take the $10K repair money, put it down on a nice new rig of your choosing and finance the remaining $20K. Raise your hourly rate $4.50 to cover the payment and go to work on plumbing instead of being a driveway mechanic.

You will have an impressive image and ego boost to go along with the productivity increase of being in a new rig.

Just step up and swing for the fence.


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## deerslayer

johnlewismcleod said:


> My new Mercedes Sprinter gets 20 mpg and has more "pep" than my last gas engine van which got 8 mpg. The math on that difference is so stark it makes me wonder why all service shops aren't driving Mercedes :yes:


Yep great fuel mileage, although it's very expensive to work on them!


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## Will

plbgbiz said:


> If you really want to get down to brass tacks on math...forget working on the old truck.
> 
> Take the $10K repair money, put it down on a nice new rig of your choosing and finance the remaining $20K. Raise your hourly rate $4.50 to cover the payment and go to work on plumbing instead of being a driveway mechanic.
> 
> You will have an impressive image and ego boost to go along with the productivity increase of being in a new rig.
> 
> Just step up and swing for the fence.


I feel my Step Van presents a great image already. My truck not so much. Also to clearify I would not be doing the mechcanic work, it would be done professionally by a mechcanic shop I now. 

I have my eye on the new 2014 Ford Transit van, don't want any cargo van on the market now except a Sprinter. I could get a Sprinter, but I have heard they can be unreliable, plus they cost closer to 45-50k i think. Maybe the Nissan NV, but I want to buy American, so I will wait on the Ford probably. 

I already have the Step Van, its lettered, and equiped to work.


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## ChrisConnor

When you get around to posting pics, show the inside, too.:yes:


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## deerslayer

ChrisConnor said:


> The new low-sulfur diesels that have been manufactured since '07 are not like the diesels of old. I've read on some diesel forums that the new diesel fuel lacks the lubricity of the old stuff and some drivers are adding two cycle oil to their fuel mixes to protect the engines and are getting better fuel economy to boot.


don't do that if you have a 6.0 ford diesel or any diesel with a newer VGT turbo for that matter


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## deerslayer

Will said:


> I feel my Step Van presents a great image already. My truck not so much. Also to clearify I would not be doing the mechcanic work, it would be done professionally by a mechcanic shop I now.
> 
> I have my eye on the new 2014 Ford Transit van, don't want any cargo van on the market now except a Sprinter. I could get a Sprinter, but I have heard they can be unreliable, plus they cost closer to 45-50k i think. Maybe the Nissan NV, but I want to buy American, so I will wait on the Ford probably.
> 
> I already have the Step Van, its lettered, and equiped to work.


If you really wanna keep it than find a 6.2 diesel it will bolt to your tranny and everything. They are gutless as hell but they get great mileage and they are cheap and dependable and very simple to work on.


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## Mississippiplum

deerslayer said:


> don't do that if you have a 6.0 ford diesel or any diesel with a newer VGT turbo for that matter


Or with any common rail diesel for that matter, the injectors will experience a painful death relatively quickly.

Sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## Mississippiplum

deerslayer said:


> If you really wanna keep it than find a 6.2 diesel it will bolt to your tranny and everything. They are gutless as hell but they get great mileage and they are cheap and dependable and very simple to work on.


Or a 5.9 cummins from a 89 to 98.5 dodge ram with manual trans behind it. Loads of torque and reliabilty.

Sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## MarkToo

johnlewismcleod said:


> My new Mercedes Sprinter gets 20 mpg and has more "pep" than my last gas engine van which got 8 mpg. The math on that difference is so stark it makes me wonder why all service shops aren't driving Mercedes :yes:


Agreed. I'm getting 19mpg average mixed driving in my Sprinter.

I'm saving an average of $400 per month fuel vs. the Chevy cube.


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## Will

MarkToo said:


> Agreed. I'm getting 19mpg average mixed driving in my Sprinter.
> 
> I'm saving an average of $400 per month fuel vs. the Chevy cube.



How long have you had it, and how has the reliability of it been?


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## wookie

gear junkie said:


> Not sure where you buy you stuff for step vans but I go through Mill Supply. If anyone has any other vendors, I'd be interested to hear.


Crest Chevrolet in San Bernadino,CA. has been useful.

909 883-8833


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## Will

Just an update.

I'm doing a total rebuild of another 350 that will be installed in the Step Van. Rebuilding the transmission, installed new tires, fixing the brake system, replacing hoses, and going to rebuild the the shelving/organization in the Step Van. For all that I'm going to spead around $5,000-$6500. I know some will say I'm wasting my money, but I disagree. It's a grat vehicle for Plumbing Service, and it is great for advertising. I'll upload some pics when done(might take a month or so to finish it all up.)


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## Master Mark

Will said:


> Just an update.
> 
> I'm doing a total rebuild of another 350 that will be installed in the Step Van. Rebuilding the transmission, installed new tires, fixing the brake system, replacing hoses, and going to rebuild the the shelving/organization in the Step Van. For all that I'm going to spead around $5,000-$6500. I know some will say I'm wasting my money, but I disagree. It's a grat vehicle for Plumbing Service, and it is great for advertising. I'll upload some pics when done(might take a month or so to finish it all up.)


 
you are not wasteing your money if you like the van... the seats are broke in and its home to you 

 a new box van cost about 29- 32k, and you could total it the first week out on the road... You cant touch a used box van with low miles for under 14k

plus getting the truck the way you want it and lettering could add up to another few thousand...

if it makes you money and you are happy with it
I say ...piss on everybody here and their opinions:thumbup::thumbup:


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## dclarke

at first with the talk of the possible engine and tranny swap i was going to suggest getting a more modern engine. an LQ9 would be a newer GM truck V8. if you swapped the whole drivetrain and a bit of wiring you would get more power and more efficient. im not sure what would be involved but you may even be able to make the displacement on demand work. if thats an option.


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## alberteh

This is what i like about capitalism. Do what you want, nobody to stop you and might just be the best move you make.

keep us updated.


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## dclarke

actually it has me thinking. i actually like stepvans. never worked out of one or drove one but they look like they would be a good work truck. whenever the day comes to start my own business i would sure consider it.


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## rjbphd

dclarke said:


> actually it has me thinking. i actually like stepvans. never worked out of one or drove one but they look like they would be a good work truck. whenever the day comes to start my own business i would sure consider it.


I'm a service untily box guy, since 1976


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## Will

dclarke said:


> at first with the talk of the possible engine and tranny swap i was going to suggest getting a more modern engine. an LQ9 would be a newer GM truck V8. if you swapped the whole drivetrain and a bit of wiring you would get more power and more efficient. im not sure what would be involved but you may even be able to make the displacement on demand work. if thats an option.


I thought about doing this, but that is when the cost goes up when you start reworking things and customizing instead of staying with what is original to the engine. Plus I don't feel like the newer vortec engine is any better than a 350 anyway.


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## deerslayer

Will said:


> Just an update.
> 
> I'm doing a total rebuild of another 350 that will be installed in the Step Van. Rebuilding the transmission, installed new tires, fixing the brake system, replacing hoses, and going to rebuild the the shelving/organization in the Step Van. For all that I'm going to spead around $5,000-$6500. I know some will say I'm wasting my money, but I disagree. It's a grat vehicle for Plumbing Service, and it is great for advertising. I'll upload some pics when done(might take a month or so to finish it all up.)


Any updates yet will?


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## Will

Not yet, but the project in underway


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## dclarke

Will said:


> I thought about doing this, but that is when the cost goes up when you start reworking things and customizing instead of staying with what is original to the engine. Plus I don't feel like the newer vortec engine is any better than a 350 anyway.


 the early ls engines had some issues but that was over 10 years ago. The newer engines are extremely reliable and can create massive power. I'm not sure what's involved I just know my brother in law put an lq9 in a nissan 240. He did everything himself. Other than a cam it was stock and he had 422 hp he doesnt have displacement on demand and he said the swap wasn't that difficult or expensive. Anyways its your van and whatever is best for your needs is what's going to be best. Just a suggestion.


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## Baloo

I am not a Chevy fan, but when I was an engine machinist one of the best ways to get the most out of the 350, was to stroke it out to a 383. It made it one of the best work/pulling small blocks available. They are easy to do, with many parts available. This shouldn't add a whole lot to the budget, but you would end up with a much better working engine with lots of torque. This also wouldn't hurt your gas mileage like a big block might. No matter what it takes fuel to power a big box.
On another side note, don't skimp on the engine rebuild. Do it right and it will last so much longer. Balancing and Blue Printing aren't just for race engines. And dirt is the devil when assembling, learned this the hard way. When you think you have everything clean enough, clean it again. Most wear happens within the first 15 minutes of a new engine starting. Oil filters only catch the big stuff. If you have any question, I would be happy to help. Loved engine machine, just didn't pay well at all, plus bosses son went to work at the shop.


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## damnplumber

Photos Will Lets see the photos!


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## Will

damnplumber said:


> Photos Will Lets see the photos!


It's taking longer than I had hoped. I'm in no rush so the rebuild on the engine I'd taking longer than I thought. I will post some when done.


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