# Cable Machine tutorial



## rooterboy (Jul 16, 2009)

I found this video helpful for running a cable machine. 



 Any tips or tricks you guys would like to share, thanks David


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Seriously is this for real? Are you trolling us???


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## rooterboy (Jul 16, 2009)

*No I am not a troll*



Tango said:


> Seriously is this for real? Are you trolling us???


I just wanted to start a drain cleaning thread on cable machines. I do own a few general super v's and a T-3 rooter. I clear most of my main line stoppages with a K-60 SP. And I also bought a goofy flexible plumber drum machine with 3/4" cable hollow core. It works OK nothing to brag about. But it was cheap and what I could afford at the time. I switched the cable feed on it to a Gorlitz but it would not feed the cable in or out well? Just wanting to learn:wink:


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## rooterboy (Jul 16, 2009)

*as an apprentice*

When I first started out I was helping a guy try and clear a mainline with no power feed. Once the machine hit a break in the line or the stoppage the cable came out of the machine and wrapped coiled up and wrapped around my wrists luckily I was not hurt but we stopped using that machine. I do not think the plumber was experienced at drain cleaning either. This happened back in the early 80's before I joined the Air Force as a plumber.


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## rooterboy (Jul 16, 2009)

For me I found cable machines useful for multiple passes and changing the cutter heads. It is easier than yanking out my 7/8" sectional cable and changing a head. Also lately when I pull the cable out with some roots on it I get a big slug of water and sewage that comes back when and spills all over the floor OK outside or in a garage not took good in a bathroom. Cable machines pull the cable back slower and at a uniform speed verses pulling the cable.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

rooterboy said:


> For me I found cable machines useful for multiple passes and changing the cutter heads. It is easier than yanking out my 7/8" sectional cable and changing a head. Also lately when I pull the cable out with some roots on it I get a big slug of water and sewage that comes back when and spills all over the floor OK outside or in a garage not took good in a bathroom. Cable machines pull the cable back slower and at a uniform speed verses pulling the cable.
























I know what you mean when pulling back a K-60 7/8" cable up a main line inside a house, it brings back water with it all over the floor if for some reason the stoppage wasn't completely cleared. 


I own and use a K-60 for my main line stoppages. Just did one today in fact. I cleared a main line stoppage from an outside 3" PVC c.o. Easy. I cleard it with only {3} sections.


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> I know what you mean when pulling back a K-60 7/8" cable up a main line inside a house, it brings back water with it all over the floor if for some reason the stoppage wasn't completely cleared.
> 
> 
> I own and use a K-60 for my main line stoppages. Just did one today in fact. I cleared a main line stoppage from an outside 3" PVC c.o. Easy. I cleard it with only {3} sections.


Put the camera in and see how well it did?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

fixitright said:


> Put the camera in and see how well it did?
















No. I do not own a camera. And I probably won't be buying one anytime soon. 


If they didn't cost $10,000 I'd buy one. The push cable on the micro is not stiff enough to push 75' and beyond {my buddy told me}. So he felt that the micro wasn't a good investment-he should've gone bigger. 


If I had more stoppage calls, then I'd buy one. But there aren't enough stoppage calls to warrant it.


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

Tommy plumber said:


> No. I do not own a camera. And I probably won't be buying one anytime soon.
> 
> 
> If they didn't cost $10,000 I'd buy one. The push cable on the micro is not stiff enough to push 75' and beyond {my buddy told me}. So he felt that the micro wasn't a good investment-he should've gone bigger.
> ...


Not to ruffle feathers but it's amazing to see how well or not so well
one gets roots out. Sometimes down right embarrassing.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> No. I do not own a camera. And I probably won't be buying one anytime soon.
> 
> 
> If they didn't cost $10,000 I'd buy one. The push cable on the micro is not stiff enough to push 75' and beyond {my buddy told me}. So he felt that the micro wasn't a good investment-he should've gone bigger.
> ...


100' Seasnake compact is $6000 or so. Will pay for itself in less than a year.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

dhal22 said:


> 100' Seasnake compact is $6000 or so. Will pay for itself in less than a year.


Only if you are a big company and do free estimates. That's my thought. 

Like I said before everyone who's called me for a BWV demands free estimates, how can I spend 2 hours and inspect the line with a camera for free?? Or how can I get the job going there for free and not inspect the underground pipes? How do you quote a number out of thin air and not shoot yourself in the foot?

Seriously no one has come up with a solution or ideas, I'm all ears.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

fixitright said:


> Not to ruffle feathers but it's amazing to see how well or not so well
> 
> one gets roots out. Sometimes down right embarrassing.



I do a lot of inspections for other plumbing contractors, drain cleaners, etc. It can be a touch uncomfortable when standing there with another drain cleaner and the home owner when the DC is insisting the line is broke and all I find is a crummy cleaning. 


I cleaned drains for years without a camera. Though I knew exactly what a cable was doing in there. Then I got my first camera. I confirmed a few things and found I was way off base on some others. I don’t cam everything I clean but having a camera has made me a better drain cleaner.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Tango said:


> Only if you are a big company and do free estimates. That's my thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I do backwater valves one of two ways-

1- I charge my inspection/locate fee to find the sewer to locate the best spot for the valve. In this case I will share the info with the homeowner. If I get the job, fine. If I don’t, fine. 

2- I locate the sewer for free and roll that price into the valve install. In this case I won’t share the location of the sewer with the homeowner. 

Which way I go depends on a few things. Mostly human related. If I know there are several bidders I’ll charge to come. If it’s a referral from someone I like, I may roll the dice and locate for free. It doesn’t always work in my favor but most of the time it does.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

Toli said:


> I do backwater valves one of two ways-
> 
> 1- I charge my inspection/locate fee to find the sewer to locate the best spot for the valve. In this case I will share the info with the homeowner. If I get the job, fine. If I don’t, fine.
> 
> ...


How many people agree to pay to come over inspect with the camera and locate? How about the ratio of callers vs the ones who will pay. Over here people who want a BWV my guesstimate is 85% of them the insurance obliges them because they were flooded. 

The rest are those who saw their neighbor flood. In both cases they really don't want to pay because it's money wasted on something that does nothing. It's not like buying a new phone or tv where they get to use every day and get pleasure out of it.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Tango said:


> Toli said:
> 
> 
> > I do backwater valves one of two ways-
> ...


I only do a few backwater valves a year. To be honest, I turn most of them down. The sanitary district provides homeowners with a list of contractors approved to do it and most people call everybody on the list for pricing. I don’t need the practice anymore. 



I looked and so far this year I’ve done 96 inspections. Probably got turned down a handful of times for being too high. You know what I charge for that. I bet those 96 inspections have turned into another 50K in drain work. Got two today. One might turn into some jetting. The other will be a locate for repairs down by others. 

My way works for me. But I don’t claim it’s the only way of doing business.


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## chonkie (Jul 31, 2014)

Tango said:


> The rest are those who saw their neighbor flood. In both cases they really don't want to pay because it's money wasted on something that does nothing. It's not like buying a new phone or tv where they get to use every day and get pleasure out of it.


Wow, do the people really not understand after seeing a neighbor or their home get flooded that it is not money wasted?

The saleman in me from a long time ago makes me want to say some suggestions to tell these people.. To make them really think about the consequences, ask certain questions. Like, "Do you value your home?" "Do they see value with having a job done right?" Ask questions that make the homeowner think and add up the value that they don't see there.


Ps. And if they say No to either of those questions or others where you would expect a yes, run away.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

chonkie said:


> Wow, do the people really not understand after seeing a neighbor or their home get flooded that it is not money wasted?
> 
> The saleman in me from a long time ago makes me want to say some suggestions to tell these people.. To make them really think about the consequences, ask certain questions. Like, "Do you value your home?" "Do they see value with having a job done right?" Ask questions that make the homeowner think and add up the value that they don't see there.
> 
> ...


I think you got something there with the salesman thing. I think it's a great idea! I think I should prepare an infomercial response when they call. I already educate them why I need to use the camera but they get hooked on the free guy, even the supply house manager said something along the lines the other companies camera for free in hopes of getting the job. I'm not sure if he knows for sure or just guessing for an answer. 

No way I'm pulling a toilet, then camera the line, locate and replacing the rotted bolts and wax of toilet for free. Even if I don't mark the floor to locate they will probably be standing by and watching.

Maybe with a few more questions like what value they want to get out of it. Not in a money sense but the quality of service and reassurance from a company who cares. Maybe I can get one customer out of those.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

fixitright said:


> Not to ruffle feathers but it's amazing to see how well or not so well
> one gets roots out. Sometimes down right embarrassing.


 

















I agree 100%. You guys are absolutely correct; a camera augments and enhances the drain cleaning task. Doing it w/o a camera is to do it almost blindly.


I've thought about getting one and trying to upsell it while I'm clearing a main line stoppage. Something along the lines of: "It will be an extra $99.00 while I'm here Mr. Smith to check why the sewer clogged; corroded, collapsed or crushed sewer line, etc. etc."......but I just haven't pulled the trigger on that purchase.


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

Just about every time I put my snake in a mainline

The only sure way to verify if the line is snaked to a good standard is via inspection. Sometimes its a tough sell. Typically I talk about the benefits of snaking blind VS snaking with the camera. Its the correct way to ensure a proper cleaning.


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## fixitright (Jan 5, 2012)

Standard Drain said:


> Just about every time I put my snake in a mainline
> 
> The only sure way to verify if the line is snaked to a good standard is via inspection. Sometimes its a tough sell. Typically I talk about the benefits of snaking blind VS snaking with the camera. Its the correct way to ensure a proper cleaning.


As I get more into flex shaft I cringe at the jobs I do without it.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Tango said:


> Only if you are a big company and do free estimates. That's my thought.
> 
> Like I said before everyone who's called me for a BWV demands free estimates, how can I spend 2 hours and inspect the line with a camera for free?? Or how can I get the job going there for free and not inspect the underground pipes? How do you quote a number out of thin air and not shoot yourself in the foot?
> 
> Seriously no one has come up with a solution or ideas, I'm all ears.



Who does free camera inspections? Not me or my guys.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

dhal22 said:


> Who does free camera inspections? Not me or my guys.


Over here I've been shot down by free back water valve estimates. I just don't what kind of trick they pull.


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## dhal22 (Jul 30, 2010)

Back water valves here are very rare. Increase your drain cleaning price and call it a free camera inspection. I don't allow any free camera work. Why would I use a $6000 or $12,000 camera for free?


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## plumber check (Jul 18, 2018)

I'm using flexible shaft too now and I've never been happier


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

plumber check said:


> I'm using flexible shaft too now and I've never been happier


Why not elaborate on the equipment you use and in what situation?


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## plumber check (Jul 18, 2018)

@Tango. I don't want to give favoritism to one company over another. I will just come off as another guy pushing or working for so and so company. I've seen many accusations online made like this and not worth the headache. But flexible shaft is definitely the way to go. IMO, it's a matter of time (the next 2-3 years) before the whole industry transitions over.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

plumber check said:


> @Tango. I don't want to give favoritism to one company over another. I will just come off as another guy pushing or working for so and so company. I've seen many accusations online made like this and not worth the headache. But flexible shaft is definitely the way to go. IMO, it's a matter of time (the next 2-3 years) before the whole industry transitions over.




It's been around for a while and I think up here it's not very useful. Ok whatever.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

dhal22 said:


> 100' Seasnake compact is $6000 or so. Will pay for itself in less than a year.





I too have the 100' compact but I do have to agree, ~70 is what I tell people is a reasonable expectation. I wish my boss would buy the stiffer reel but he figures our snake only goes to 100' so why do we need a longer camera? I don't need a longer one just a stiffer one. Oh don't we all.....LOLZ :vs_laugh:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> Only if you are a big company and do free estimates. That's my thought.
> 
> Like I said before everyone who's called me for a BWV demands free estimates, how can I spend 2 hours and inspect the line with a camera for free?? Or how can I get the job going there for free and not inspect the underground pipes? How do you quote a number out of thin air and not shoot yourself in the foot?
> 
> Seriously no one has come up with a solution or ideas, I'm all ears.





So they want you to see if their backwater valve is working? If they want it checked just because of house sale or something than just qoute them an hour if its accessible. If they want it checked because they have had issues than just tell them yup! I have heard those symptoms before, sounds broken to me! I will charge XX.XX to break up the slab and replace it no need to just check!




.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> So they want you to see if their backwater valve is working? If they want it checked just because of house sale or something than just qoute them an hour if its accessible. If they want it checked because they have had issues than just tell them yup! I have heard those symptoms before, sounds broken to me! I will charge XX.XX to break up the slab and replace it no need to just check!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, people need a BWV installation because they were flooded and the insurance obliges them to have one installed. They all go for the lowest price from what I've seen. I don't think the insurance pays for the installation. The other companies all do free estimates without putting a camera in the line to see what else needs to be done at the same time. Could be hack renos under the slab, or finished basements, combined waste and french drain pipe or separate, sump pump pipe going into the wall unknown where it goes, etc. 

I'm not guessing and telling them between 2000$ to 5000$. I think the companies put a low number and as soon as the job starts they add on fees. I find it unethical and make people angry.


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