# Sewer Gas In Restroom



## d4lplumber

Having a Problem with sewer smell in Men's Restroom. Smell Gets stronger as day goes on (high use). i've checked the vents to make sure they go thru roof, they are not cracked, not clogged, not near building AC, not to low. i remove P-trap from different fixtures (not just in men's restroom, but also the ones in there) and i notice air being expelled through each drain, it almost feels like AC air but smells like sewer. drains throughout the building have different vent stacks and besides the air is flowing from below, from the drains not the vents. im going to camera the line but at this point im dumbfounded... any ideas? (line not clogged.) 

p.s.
lines that are connected to grease trap are not having this problem.


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## SlickRick

d4lplumber said:


> Having a Problem with sewer smell in Men's Restroom. Smell Gets stronger as day goes on (high use). i've checked the vents to make sure they go thru roof, they are not cracked, not clogged, not near building AC, not to low. i remove P-trap from different fixtures (not just in men's restroom, but also the ones in there) and i notice air being expelled through each drain, it almost feels like AC air but smells like sewer. drains throughout the building have different vent stacks and besides the air is flowing from below, from the drains not the vents. im going to camera the line but at this point im dumbfounded... any ideas? (line not clogged.)
> 
> p.s.
> lines that are connected to grease trap are not having this problem.


 


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## waldrop

The air pressure is lower than atomsphere in bathroom . Easy fix turn fart fan off:thumbup:if you liked that post a intro so I can tell you why I know this


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## d4lplumber

*into completed...*

how do you know? remember that the problem is not only in the bathroom but it exists in every drain through out the building


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## waldrop

Trap on floor drain dry? Smell only in mens? Fan pulling gas out of sewer room at lower than atmosphere


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## Tommy plumber

Try rocking the w/c's and urinals. Maybe a w/c flange is broken and when someone uses that toilet, it moves and is allowing sewer gas to enter the men's room.


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## d4lplumber

floor drain not dry. did find c/o cap leaking , i swapped it out but smell still there. checked toilets for good seal, p-traps ok. smell only in restrooms both men and womens's back to back. no smell anywhere else in buidling


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## Tommy plumber

Check p-traps under the lav sinks. Check w/c's again. Look for hair-line cracks in china. Check for missing or loose fitting c.o. caps in vent stacks.


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## greenscoutII

Are you sure you don't have a cracked drain line somewhere? I chased a sewer gas smell one time for a month of Sundays before I figured it out. It was a crack on the top side of a piece of 2" CI about 1/8" wide and it ran the length of the pipe (about 4 feet or so). Couldn't see the crack from underneath and it wasn't really leaking as much water as I would have thought.

Just a thought..... Hope this helps......


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## SlickRick

Smoke, quit guessing.


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## Mpls Jay

In a pinch I toss Pine-Sol in and sniff for that.


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## d4lplumber

what about so much air being blown out of the drain/vents? i checked the vent at roof and did not notice any air being pushed out, at least not any noticeable amounts as in the p-traps and c/o's


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## Pipe Rat

d4lplumber said:


> what about so much air being blown out of the drain/vents? i checked the vent at roof and did not notice any air being pushed out, at least not any noticeable amounts as in the p-traps and c/o's


??????????????? :whistling2:


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## PrecisionPlumb

reset both toilets, and put in some trap gaurds. If that dont work do a smoke test


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## Prscptn Plmbng

What is the layout of the system, how many restrooms and what types of biz on the system....is the place on a hill or at the bottom of the hill...some reason the drains have too much positive pressure, the vents may be clogged try re-snaking... If all else fails install a backwater valve on main...


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## Pipe Rat

DIY'er me says


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## Prscptn Plmbng

d4lplumber said:


> Having a Problem with sewer smell in Men's Restroom. Smell Gets stronger as day goes on (high use). i've checked the vents to make sure they go thru roof, they are not cracked, not clogged, not near building AC, not to low. i remove P-trap from different fixtures (not just in men's restroom, but also the ones in there) and i notice air being expelled through each drain, it almost feels like AC air but smells like sewer. drains throughout the building have different vent stacks and besides the air is flowing from below, from the drains not the vents. im going to camera the line but at this point im dumbfounded... any ideas? (line not clogged.)
> 
> p.s.
> lines that are connected to grease trap are not having this problem.


Are you sure it's not a new style hand dryer...


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## plbgbiz

d4lplumber said:


> i've checked the vents....they are not cracked...


How exactly did you determine this?


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## d4lplumber

not DYI'er just new to trade, please excuse my ignorance.im learning every day. 

I'm going to try and reset all the toilets (4 total) see if that helps. 

Thanks to Everyone for your advice. i'll keep you all posted as to how i resolve this issue.


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## BROOKLYN\PLUMB

d4lplumber said:


> not DYI'er just new to trade, please excuse my ignorance.im learning every day.
> 
> I'm going to try and reset all the toilets (4 total) see if that helps.
> 
> Thanks to Everyone for your advice. i'll keep you all posted as to how i resolve this issue.


Do the toilets need resetting? Also I think you need to get on your hands and knees and sniff it out (your nose is a really great plumbing tool) also some rotting animals may smell like sewer especially when you say the smell gets worse (if it were plumbing the smell (unless its a backup) should not be increasing)

Sent from my EVO 4G using Plumbing Zone


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## plbgbiz

d4lplumber said:


> not DYI'er just new to trade, please excuse my ignorance....


OK, you're excused. Now, how did you determine the vent pipes were not cracked?

Quit wasting your customer's time and money and your time. Go build this and remove the hunt and peck methods.










http://www.upfrontprice.com/galleryimg/smoker_intro.htm

Then give thanks to Randy Hilton at www.upfrontprice.com for sharing his simple design.


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## U666A

PrecisionPlumb said:


> reset both toilets, and put in some trap gaurds. If that dont work do a smoke test


That is alot of time and money to do BEFORE a smoke test. Trap guards are an expensive guess.

I would suggest a smoke test first or a peppermint test works really well I'm told.


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## Eric

Is this a restuarant by any chance?

Got a big ol honkin kitchen hood going all day? Worse later in the day? 

Bet the make up air for the hood isn't working right or set right an not providing enough air to compensate for what's being taken out of the building. Try opening a door to the outside and see if you experience a wind tunnel when it's opened.

This it what I use to locate where the smell is originating: UEI Combustible gas leak detector #CD100A, works like a charm. Zero it out and move it to all the fixtures, floor drains, clean outs, will begin to beep like crazy when you find it:
http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=NIdmTYnwKcnLgQeG7qWmDQ&ved=0CEQQ8wIwAg#


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## 6th Density

Don't forget to ask the owner if the restrooms have been remodeled before.
If so, ask the owner if he has the original blueprints. Could be a covered up fixture not sealed off properly.


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## Greenguy

The gas detecter works great, I have the TPI version, makes for fast work.


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## jeffreyplumber

U.A.til.I.die said:


> That is alot of time and money to do BEFORE a smoke test. Trap guards are an expensive guess.
> 
> I would suggest a smoke test first or a peppermint test works really well I'm told.


Never did any of these tests. Did use mapp gas to track a gas leak in a finished house. A foreman insisted on hooking up a mapp gas and then tracking down the smell it worked but dangerous I think!
But smoke and pepermint how do you track a vent leak? didnt he say the lavs were breaking the seal?


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## SlickRick

Using flammable gas is insane to say the least! Peppermint, you go to the smell. Smoke will come from any leaks in the system.


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## easttexasplumb

jeffreyplumber said:


> Never did any of these tests. Did use mapp gas to track a gas leak in a finished house. A foreman insisted on hooking up a mapp gas and then tracking down the smell it worked but dangerous I think!
> But smoke and pepermint how do you track a vent leak? didnt he say the lavs were breaking the seal?


Did you walk around with a lighter to find the leak Booom


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## Redwood

jeffreyplumber said:


> Never did any of these tests. Did use mapp gas to track a gas leak in a finished house. A foreman insisted on hooking up a mapp gas and then tracking down the smell it worked but dangerous I think!


WTF! 

Stop thinking you are right!


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## U666A

SlickRick said:


> Using flammable gas is insane to say the least! Peppermint, you go to the smell. Smoke will come from any leaks in the system.


Thanks Rick.


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## U666A

SlickRick said:


> Using flammable gas is insane to say the least! Peppermint, you go to the smell. Smoke will come from any leaks in the system.


Thanks Rick.

He is exactly right. Truth be told, I have never done a peppermint test but I work with guys who have. In theory it is a great idea for a test after top out.

Stupid iPhone, this has been happening more and more... Next phone will not be a crapple product.


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## ChrisCarsten

I had the same situation in a large commercial restroom. Due to the undersizing of the main sewer line, toilet traps would occasionally get siphoned during heavy use. Should have been a six inch line, but not practical to jack the whole thing up. Then we had the big hood fan in the kitchen sucking sewer gas in. The horrific smell started appearing when they hooked up a large commercial grease interceptor. They used a design which allowed free air from inside the interceptor back into the building drain (the baffle was an open san T, not a 90. A regular grease trap serves as a trap against these gasses, but an interceptor with an open baffel does not.)

Solution: install a cleanout cap on top of that San T, blocking the flow of gasses from the interceptor back into the drain and vent system.

Also: jack up the floor and up the size of the building drain, but that's probably not gonna happen.


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## SlickRick

ChrisCarsten said:


> I had the same situation in a large commercial restroom. Due to the undersizing of the main sewer line, toilet traps would occasionally get siphoned during heavy use. Should have been a six inch line, but not practical to jack the whole thing up. Then we had the big hood fan in the kitchen sucking sewer gas in. The horrific smell started appearing when they hooked up a large commercial grease interceptor. They used a design which allowed free air from inside the interceptor back into the building drain (the baffle was an open san T, not a 90. A regular grease trap serves as a trap against these gasses, but an interceptor with an open baffel does not.)
> 
> Solution: install a cleanout cap on top of that San T, blocking the flow of gasses from the interceptor back into the drain and vent system.
> 
> Also: jack up the floor and up the size of the building drain, but that's probably not gonna happen.


Would you explain the differences between a regular grease trap and a grease interseptor, so we will know?


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## Plumberman

I'm lost too.


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## ChrisCarsten

SlickRick said:


> Would you explain the differences between a regular grease trap and a grease interseptor, so we will know?


Laymans terms. 

I can tell by the _tone_ of the question, however....I should try to be more precise. Excuse me.

I'd be willing to bet that most people wouldn't need to have it explained that when someone says grease trap, they're talking about a small unit, usually indoors with a capacity of 50 gl or so, and when they say grease interceptor, they're talking about a huge unit, usually out doors with a capacity in the thousands. However, it is entirely possible, and even likely, that only in my small circle is this the case.

ie, google "grease interceptor," and you'll see both large and small units.

Point taken.

The larger, out door unit, did not block the free flow of gasses back into the building drain.


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## Plumberman

Same difference


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## Plumberman

I guess I'm confused on why a cleanout cap on top of the San tee in the trap or interceptor or whatever we wanna call it, block free flowing "sewer gas" to go into the building drain. The kitchen hoods that I have seen and installed draw air from inside out, removing smoke when food is being prepared, never knew one to draw air in. The outdoor interceptor has it's designated piping under slab that is protected with p traps on all fixtures, thus preventing any gas from making its way inside. On the discharge side of trap is when the tank attaches to sewer main. It sounds like more of a venting problem in the commercial bathroom rather than a undersized line, 4 inch will carry a lot of fixtures.


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## SlickRick

I have done some pretty fair size kitchens, none with 6".


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## ChrisCarsten

Plumberman said:


> I guess I'm confused on why a cleanout cap on top of the San tee in the trap or interceptor or whatever we wanna call it, block free flowing "sewer gas" to go into the building drain. The kitchen hoods that I have seen and installed draw air from inside out, removing smoke when food is being prepared, never knew one to draw air in. The outdoor interceptor has it's designated piping under slab that is protected with p traps on all fixtures, thus preventing any gas from making its way inside. On the discharge side of trap is when the tank attaches to sewer main. It sounds like more of a venting problem in the commercial bathroom rather than a undersized line, 4 inch will carry a lot of fixtures.


I feel like I'm hijacking the OP. The place I'm talking about has A LOT of flushometers @ 3.5 gl, and the line fills up occasionally, siphoning the toilets. Maxes out the the range of fixture units for 4 inch, and I've watched it fill up and drain down, so I say it needs 6 inch.

The inlet of this particular interceptor, the specs to which I have seen, is above the liquid level, and the baffel is not a 90 with pipe down under the liquid level. It is a San-T, open on top, with a pipe on bottom down under the liquid level. Same for outlet: the open top allows free flow of the gasses inside the interceptor back and forth from interceptor and building drain.

Somewhere in this big, historic building, the venting is combined for kitchen and restrooms.

Big hood fan. Siphoned toilet traps. Gas build up inside interceptor gets pulled through the DWV system, out of the empty toilet traps, into into the building.

BTW, those hood fans you have installed that draw air from the inside out, and don't draw any air in from the outside? Where do you get those?


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## Plumberman

If your speaking of range hood exhaust then I'm sure air comes down the duct from the roof when not powered on, but while running I doubt it.


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## ChrisCarsten

Plumberman said:


> If your speaking of range hood exhaust then I'm sure air comes down the duct from the roof when not powered on, but while running I doubt it.


Ane while it's running, moving air out of the kitchen, does any air get pulled into the building from other areas to replace the air that has been removed?


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## SlickRick

In a commercial exhaust system, make-up air is provided to allow the system to function properly. Properly installed, it would not have a noticeable negative pressure in the kitchen, definitely not the entire bld.


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## Plumberman

ChrisCarsten said:


> BTW, those hood fans you have installed that draw air from the inside out, and don't draw any air in from the outside? Where do you get those?


Now it's from other areas?


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## ChrisCarsten

We did break a vent open and experiment with the fan. We found a huge out flow of air from the vent with the hood fan on, and very little with the fan off.

So mabye part of the solution would be providing a new source of make up air?


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## ChrisCarsten

Plumberman said:


> Now it's from other areas?


wut?


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## Plumberman

ChrisCarsten said:


> wut?


You first said the range hood was drawing air in from the outside, then you said it was drawing air from other areas of the building. I'm just confused on what your describing, no biggie.


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## ChrisCarsten

I was just wondering what kind of hood fans don't require any make up air, but I admit I have no experience whatsoever in commercial kitchen exhaust, so it just seemed like kind of a novel idea to me. I will back off without further confusing the issue of the OP.

:thumbsup:


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## SlickRick

ChrisCarsten said:


> We did break a vent open and experiment with the fan. We found a huge out flow of air from the vent with the hood fan on, and very little with the fan off.
> 
> So mabye part of the solution would be providing a new source of make up air?


I am not a HVAC person by any means, but I have been responsible for their systems at mech. co's I have worked for. I know it is important to have the system balanced to assure proper function. make-up air has to be mechanically provided to the building or you can depressurize the building, causing a neg. draw throughout the building. Other gas fired appliances would be effected in this situation, causing a back-draft condition.


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## Redwood

A bad enough negative pressure can certainly draw sewer gases in through the traps.

I once did a job where I solved their problem when I went into the front entryway of the building and observed the ceiling panels in the hung ceiling flapping in the breeze when I opened the front door to go in...

A production paint booth with about 13,000 CFM exhausting... 
And not quite enough make up air....:laughing:

A Rupp Direct Fired Make Up Air Unit made it go away....


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## SlickRick

We have a restaurant in town that I have to put my left hand against the door frame, so I have enough leverage to pull the door open with my right hand. And the can't figure out why they can't keep the place cool in the summer.


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## Redwood

SlickRick said:


> We have a restaurant in town that I have to put my left hand against the door frame, so I have enough leverage to pull the door open with my right hand. And the can't figure out why they can't keep the place cool in the summer.


Both heating and cooling can be quite expensive in a building with a negative pressure problem...

One thing for sure it won't be comfortable...


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## SlickRick

Redwood said:


> Both heating and cooling can be quite expensive in a building with a negative pressure problem...
> 
> One thing for sure it won't be comfortable...


It is like they don't have AC at all. They had a jake leg replace the units. I don't have much sympathy for them. They also have 140 degree water at the lavs.


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## U666A

SlickRick said:


> It is like they don't have AC at all. They had a jake leg replace the units. I don't have much sympathy for them. They also have 140 degree water at the lavs.


Rick the bionic plumber... Tells temp by running hands under scalding water...
Na na na na na na na (six million dollar man... Anyone... Sorry, I know...)
Lol


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## SlickRick

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Rick the bionic plumber... Tells temp by running hands under scalding water...
> Na na na na na na na (six million dollar man... Anyone... Sorry, I know...)
> Lol


The first time I found out the hard way, second time I carried a pocket thermometer.


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## U666A

SlickRick said:


> The first time I found out the hard way, second time I carried a pocket thermometer.


Wow, did you mention that to anyone? Water at that temp can cause burns in under 6 seconds.
They could end up with a lawsuit on their hands.

Is this restaurant a national chain or an independent outfit?


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## SlickRick

U.A.til.I.die said:


> Wow, did you mention that to anyone? Water at that temp can cause burns in under 6 seconds.
> They could end up with a lawsuit on their hands.
> 
> Is this restaurant a national chain or an independent outfit?


 
Independent. I showed them the temp and told them someone was going to get burned, I did. They just looked at me like :blink:


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## Eric

We do service work for one of the fast food chains, and have gone in many of their stores. I'd say the number of correctly installed hoods/ make up air is just better than 50/50. 

Too many people not knowing what the heck their doing on a new install and the city/town not inspecting well enough on the install. 

This company uses a RTU that draws in fresh air from the roof over the dining room part of the building away from the kitchen. It will either heat or cool the incoming air depending on the weather outside. When it's set up right it works well in a couple of ways:
-The smoke from the kitchen stays in the kitchen because air flow in the building is from the dining room to the kitchen. So the customers don't get smoked out. 
-makes it easier to install the make up air on the roof away from the kitchen exhaust and plumbing vents that are on the roof, so it doesn't get sucked back in.

The restaurants that don't have correct make up air have these insane sewer issues, toilet eventually rocks and bang (the toilet's the problem). :laughing: 

The negative pressure in the building WILL pull from any atmospheric vent gas appliance in the building (the 80-gallon gas water b-vent water heater in the back of the building). The cold outside air will pull right down the flue and spill out the draft hood. Then when the heater tries to fire it rolls out all over. Then you go there and they want to know why the water heater is always broken, like it's possessed. They don't get it. We've been changing the tanks to sealed combustion on demand, at least they won't spill, but no one seems to want to correct the hoods.

Then when they're going good around lunch time, the building is at such a negative pressure that the hood doesn't even pull any more air out, and the kitchen smoke will roll right out of the hood and fill the kitchen with smoke like fog. Open the drive thru window and you can see it start to go back up.


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## SlickRick

Eric, on these light commercial projects, do you see a common problem with the make-up air? Just not tested and balanced, size, location? On the OP's problem, I think he stated that he pulled traps out and air was being drawn out of the system,into the room. I believe I would have pulled a few traps and put smoke from the roof to see if that was the case. At that point someone needs to balance the system.


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## sewerman

*sewer gas odor*

sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
why all of these scientific q & a s ? all though they are good, first see if the floors by the urinals are piss stained that will give an odor next do a smoke test 

marc
the sewerman
http://www.thesewerman.com


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## Plumberman

sewerman said:


> sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
> why all of these scientific q & a s ? all though they are good, first see if the floors by the urinals are piss stained that will give an odor next do a smoke test
> 
> marc
> the sewerman
> http://www.thesewerman.com


Www .How About An Intro. com


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## sewerman

been on list since 08 / as is posted /intro was back then 

tooooo much sewer gas


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## loren

*State certified plumber*



d4lplumber said:


> Having a Problem with sewer smell in Men's Restroom. Smell Gets stronger as day goes on (high use). i've checked the vents to make sure they go thru roof, they are not cracked, not clogged, not near building AC, not to low. i remove P-trap from different fixtures (not just in men's restroom, but also the ones in there) and i notice air being expelled through each drain, it almost feels like AC air but smells like sewer. drains throughout the building have different vent stacks and besides the air is flowing from below, from the drains not the vents. im going to camera the line but at this point im dumbfounded... any ideas? (line not clogged.)
> 
> p.s.
> lines that are connected to grease trap are not having this problem.


do a smoke test/problem solved:thumbup:


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## SlickRick

loren said:


> do a smoke test/problem solved:thumbup:


*Hello! Introduction Requested* 
An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.


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## Epox

This could also be caused by a failing makeup air unit. Hence the vacuum mentioned earlier. They are typically never serviced, bearing go out, belts stretch out. Makes for that nice rosie smell.:blink: Aside from that my money is on the smoke test. Cracks in piping are really good at being hard to find.


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## jeffreyplumber

It sounds like the make up air. I mean he said the trap was losing its seal is there another reason ? I mean a cracked pipe some where is allways posible but a cracked pipe aint causing the traps to lose a seal


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## SewerRatz

I did a smoke test recently at a restaurant. Found 3 open vent pipes. One of them was a 2 x 4 Tee where the 2" pipe was never glued in and pulled out. Another was a 2" pipe in a wall that led to no where, and the third was an open backside of a 2" wye up in the drop ceiling. Looked like they forgot to put in a clean out adapter there.

After them where all corrected I redid the smoke test and noticed I was getting smoke from around the vent where it passes through the flat roof. What was happening was the smoke was rising out of the roof vent put was getting up under the flashing that was folded over into the pipe and being drawn in by the negative pressure in the building. This happened on on three of the 4 vents going through the roof. Now that I sealed around the pipe and the roof opening they no longer get odors.


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## Epox

I have to go tomorrow to check sewer odors in a college dorm. Alot of drains in there.


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## U666A

mpsllc said:


> I have to go tomorrow to check sewer odors in a college dorm. Alot of drains in there.


You should probably recommend replacing the sanitary building drain/sewer before even evaluating... Lol!


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## Epox

U.A.til.I.die said:


> You should probably recommend replacing the sanitary building drain/sewer before even evaluating... Lol!


LOL yeah that would be nice. Thing is this place just went through a fairly extensive remod last summer. The contractor was there several months. Mostly water lines and fixtures I think. I've repaired copper leaks and such already. Thinking I'll be picking up some good work there for a while.


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## Epox

I'll be looking for a good place for smoke test since this is on 2nd floor. This will be my first smoke test ever if I don't see something incredibly obvious first. I have a Tiff 8800A gonna see if it shows me anything.


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## U666A

mpsllc said:


> I'll be looking for a good place for smoke test since this is on 2nd floor. This will be my first smoke test ever if I don't see something incredibly obvious first. I have a Tiff 8800A gonna see if it shows me anything.


No no no... Smoke test last! Heavy equipment first!

Just googled the 8800a, neat little toy.


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## Epox

U.A.til.I.die said:


> No no no... Smoke test last! Heavy equipment first!
> 
> Just googled the 8800a, neat little toy.


Pretty neat, was quoting a repipe Friday and noticed something didn't smell right. Went out and grabbed the Tiff, and it took me to the 4" furnace and WH vent that had bad joints. Thinking that helped sell the repipe.


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## jeffreyplumber

Sorry never did a smoke test somebody describe in detail. I got no clue!


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## plbgbiz

Go to the link I posted about the smoke machine.

Two man operation (with cell phone or 2-way radio on)

Order smoke cartridges (easy to find on Google). We get them from Improved Construction Methods. 

Cap all but one of the vents.

connect the smoker to the remaining vent.

Light cartridge.

Man on inside looks for smoke to appear.

Man on inside immediately yells frantically into phone for you to disconnect the smoker from the vent when he sees smoke coming out of the wall in the CEO's office where a bar sink was removed. :laughing:

_*BUT FIRST....*_

Do a practice run at your house or shop to be prepared to know what you are doing. There's a ton of smoke from those cartridges.


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## U666A

mpsllc said:


> Pretty neat, was quoting a repipe Friday and noticed something didn't smell right. Went out and grabbed the Tiff, and it took me to the 4" furnace and WH vent that had bad joints. Thinking that helped sell the repipe.


100%! I can see that device being paramount to selling work. Worthwhile investment IMO.


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## U666A

plbgbiz said:


> Go to the link I posted about the smoke machine.
> 
> Two man operation (with cell phone or 2-way radio on)
> 
> Order smoke cartridges (easy to find on Google). We get them from Improved Construction Methods.
> 
> Cap all but one of the vents.
> 
> connect the smoker to the remaining vent.
> 
> Light cartridge.
> 
> Man on inside looks for smoke to appear.
> 
> Man on inside immediately yells frantically into phone for you to disconnect the smoker from the vent when he sees smoke coming out of the wall in the CEO's office where a bar sink was removed. :laughing:


Lol... At least the smoke will dissipate, his exec office will smell like peppermint concentrate for weeks!


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## plbgbiz

Yes...it did. :laughing:


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## SlickRick

I am low budget, I use a shop vac. :laughing:


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## jeffreyplumber

Pretty simple smoke test. never done one! You blow it in with a shop vac? some kind of smoke bomb or a specific kind made for testing


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## SlickRick

jeffreyplumber said:


> Pretty simple smoke test. never done one! You blow it in with a shop vac? some kind of smoke bomb or a specific kind made for testing


My supplier carries the smoke bombs. I just put it in a container in my shop vac and hook up to the exhaust side. You can't control it once you light it, but it's no big deal. some neighbor may think the building's roof is on fire. It works fine if you can't get a smoke machine, at least it does here in Mayberry.


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## loren

we, cap off all the vents on roof, then cap or just stuff a rag in the down
stream side of clean-out, lower smoke bomb(CANDLE) in clean-out
then start looking. bombs go by cubic feet of pipe, so dont get to
small of bomb. Then we use gas blower idle speed to force smoke
into pipe. EXAMPLE IF CLEAN OUT IS 4 INCH, WE USE 4 INCH
MIP RED TO 2 INCH WITH 2 INCH 90 ATTACH TO SMALL PIECE
OF 2 INCH ATTACHED TO THE BLOWER AT GROUND LEVEL.
LOTS OF SMOKE BLOWERS ON MARKET, BUT THIS WORKS FOR US.


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## jeffreyplumber

I get it but on an old building you may not know a place to plug off the sewer main or if their are multi tenant finding a clean out to stuff a test plug or rag. Sounds like a good way to do it though.


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## Redwood

If you are looking at making a smoke testing rig up for yourself robbing a fan off of a powervent water heater works good...


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## plbgbiz

Redwood said:


> If you are looking at making a smoke testing rig up for yourself robbing a fan off of a powervent water heater works good...


That would work great. I used a bath exhaust fan.


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## plumber2012

Why don't you check the main sewer line and if it is also pulling sewer gas from there, install a sewer check valve and that will solve the problem for the whole building.


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## Pipecommandor

plumber2012 said:


> Why don't you check the main sewer line and if it is also pulling sewer gas from there, install a sewer check valve and that will solve the problem for the whole building.


I've had this same problem on a residential service call, the main sewer stunk bad, I believe their was a problem with the city's main, either bellies in pipe or backfalling??? I dug up sewer right out side of house and cut out the c.o , then put in a 4" p- trap, but instead of using the trap 90, I used a tee and reinstalled a c.o, it worked great, no more sewer smell in house and no drainage problems with the trap


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## Redwood

Pipecommandor said:


> I've had this same problem on a residential service call, the main sewer stunk bad, I believe their was a problem with the city's main, either bellies in pipe or backfalling??? I dug up sewer right out side of house and cut out the c.o , then put in a 4" p- trap, but instead of using the trap 90, I used a tee and reinstalled a c.o, it worked great, no more sewer smell in house and no drainage problems with the trap


That is one of the good functions of a house trap but usually the bad functions far outweigh the good...

How did you install and vent this house trap you installed and what did you provide for cleanouts? Can you post a sketch of what you installed showing those features?

Improperly done you may have created a double trap situation and a nightmare for drain cleaning.


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## Marlin

Everything around here has a house trap. They're great for service calls. Probably 3 out of 5 main line stoppages are in the trap. Most of the time they're inside and easy to get to. Every once in a while you get one where someone poured a patio over the thing. That's when the nightmares start.


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## Redwood

Marlin said:


> Everything around here has a house trap. *They're great for service calls. Probably 3 out of 5 main line stoppages are in the trap.* Most of the time they're inside and easy to get to. * Every once in a while you get one where someone poured a patio over the thing. That's when the nightmares start.*


Yes, that is one of the main disadvantages for the customer...

Access is everything when it comes to drain cleaning and housetraps...

Nothing is more fun than one that is buried in an unknown location under a paved parking lot with a remote configured vent 25' away from the actual trap!


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## Tommy plumber

Marlin said:


> Everything around here has a house trap. They're great for service calls. Probably 3 out of 5 main line stoppages are in the trap. Most of the time they're inside and easy to get to. Every once in a while you get one where someone poured a patio over the thing. That's when the nightmares start.


 




My family lives in Brooklyn and Queens, and all the older homes have a house trap, (not sure about new homes though). Down here, house traps aren't permitted by code.


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## Redwood

Tommy plumber said:


> My family lives in Brooklyn and Queens, and all the older homes have a house trap, (not sure about new homes though). Down here, house traps aren't permitted by code.


Is it not permitted or, just omitted from the code?

That would make a big difference in whether they are actually prohibited or, just not required.

In Ct. we are under the 2003 International Plumbing Code with amendments where the housetrap has been omitted but we have localities that still require their use. In many areas we remove housetraps that have proven to be problematic for the customers. In others we have to leave them alone and if doing new work would have to install them.


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## PLUMBER_BILL

Tommy plumber said:


> My family lives in Brooklyn and Queens, and all the older homes have a house trap, (not sure about new homes though). Down here, house traps aren't permitted by code.


*It's funny you say house traps aren't permitted by code. Yet here in PA a lot of residents go to FL for vacation. They can leave here, winterize their home, come back in spring and not worry that their house smells like a cesspool. The 4" main trap did not evaporate and break seal. The 1-1/2 & 1-1/4 probably did. Plus it is the only trap that can be replensished with rain water, not to mention the fresh air piping required with a main trap keeping the whole system ventilated. The code writers that eliminated the house trap because they thought it was to keep sewer rats out. IMHO were nuts and very badley informed.*


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## skitian

In Maryland, I've never seen a house trap, only ever read about them. I've worked in all age of homes. I can't remember if their against code here or not


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## timplmbr

i agree ....smoke test it .................it should reveal source........


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## Tommy plumber

PLUMBER_BILL said:


> *It's funny you say house traps aren't permitted by code. Yet here in PA a lot of residents go to FL for vacation. They can leave here, winterize their home, come back in spring and not worry that their house smells like a cesspool. The 4" main trap did not evaporate and break seal. The 1-1/2 & 1-1/4 probably did. Plus it is the only trap that can be replensished with rain water, not to mention the fresh air piping required with a main trap keeping the whole system ventilated. The code writers that eliminated the house trap because they thought it was to keep sewer rats out. IMHO were nuts and very badley informed.*


 




FL 2007 Plumbing Code Chapt.10, 1002.6: "Building (house) traps shall be prohibited,except where local conditions necessitate such traps."


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## plumber2012

Pipecommandor said:


> I've had this same problem on a residential service call, the main sewer stunk bad, I believe their was a problem with the city's main, either bellies in pipe or backfalling??? I dug up sewer right out side of house and cut out the c.o , then put in a 4" p- trap, but instead of using the trap 90, I used a tee and reinstalled a c.o, it worked great, no more sewer smell in house and no drainage problems with the trap


Yup that works great also, I did one of those almost 3 yrs ago and haven't had a problem with it.


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## plbgbiz

plumber2012 said:


> Yup that works great also, I did one of those almost 3 yrs ago and haven't had a problem with it.


*Hello! Introduction Requested* 

An intro is requested from all new members. In case you missed it, here is the link. http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/.

The PZ is for Plumbing Professionals ( those engaged in the plumbing profession)

Post an intro and tell our members where you are from, yrs in the trade, and your area(s) of expertise in the plumbing field.

This info helps members who are waiting to welcome you to the best plumbing site there is.

We look forward to your valuable input.

:thumbsup:


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## PasoPlumbing

*What about this...*

Do you have any floor drains in the system?

Did you check all the wax seals on the water closets?


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## Tommy plumber

PasoPlumbing said:


> Do you have any floor drains in the system?
> 
> Did you check all the wax seals on the water closets?


 



You are kindly requested to post us an intro about yourself in the introduction section. Years in the trade, licenses, certifications, etc.


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## pipefighter

you've got a cracked vent line. Pour bleach down the vtr and you'll smell it in the bath rooms.


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## deerslayer

Smoke it and find the leak. Be careful and have someone on the phone ready to turn the smoke off the negative pressure will pull it in, in a hurry.


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## deerslayer

Mr Biz I like your smoker idea I have always used a shop vac but it ruins them quick as it suits up the motor.


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## OldSchool

Ever think all this sewer gas is coming from the guy sitting in the stall


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