# Mapp or acetylene?



## Bill

I used to like my acetylene tank, but it got too cumbersome and got me a map tank 2 years ago. I love map, quick. Also I love the self start and the tip dont get hot, and much easier to carry under a house. I do however miss the smaller flame which I liked.


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## Ron

Map is the only tank I use, good enough the silver braze the smaller size lines also.


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## Bill

I have not silver soldered with map before, always my acetylene. I did not know map would heat hot enough to do that with


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## user4

Propane.


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## Bill

Propane! I thought that was a thing of the past!


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## Ron

Oh yea, medical gas, it will get those fitting red hot.


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## user4

USP45 said:


> Propane! I thought that was a thing of the past!


You are paying more for MAPP or Acetylene than I am for propane, and in most cases you don't need the advantage of the added heat, I can easily soft solder 2½" copper pressure fittings with propane.


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## Bill

yeh, but how long does it take to get say a 3/4 fitting hot enough to cause the solder to run with propane as opposed to map?


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## WestCoastPlumber

I love the speed of acetylene, and I only use MAPP, faster then propane in my mind.

I use self starts. Anything over 3/4 gets acetylene. so 1" and up.


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## service guy

Killertoiletspider said:


> You are paying more for MAPP or Acetylene than I am for propane, and in most cases you don't need the advantage of the added heat, I can easily soft solder 2½" copper pressure fittings with propane.


You're kidding right? Propane is pathetic. Then again I am a service guy, so all the pipes I solder are wet....propane doesn't cut it. I started with acetylene bottles, now I use MAPP.


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## user4

USP45 said:


> yeh, but how long does it take to get say a 3/4 fitting hot enough to cause the solder to run with propane as opposed to map?


Not sure, how long does it take to overheat it and burn the flux out with MAPP?


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## Bill

Not long, 10 seconds perhaps? That may be too long, never timed it. Is the propane you use the same as the propane tanks you can pick up in a DIY place? What I mean is there is only one type of propane right?


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## service guy

I soldered with propane once or twice. I was appalled at how slow it was. WAY slower than acetylene, even for 1/2" pipes.


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## user4

USP45 said:


> Not long, 10 seconds perhaps? That may be too long, never timed it. Is the propane you use the same as the propane tanks you can pick up in a DIY place? What I mean is there is only one type of propane right?


I have a six pound propane tank and a Turbotorch set-up with regulator, hose, handle, and tips.


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## Bill

Turbotorch, if memory serves me right dont that inject air as well to increase the temp? Another tank with compressed air? saw a similar setup at the local welding supply house once.


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## user4

USP45 said:


> Turbotorch, if memory serves me right dont that inject air as well to increase the temp? Another tank with compressed air? saw a similar setup at the local welding supply house once.


No, just one tank, google Turbotorch LP-2.


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## 22rifle

Grew up on propane. 

Found MAPP and never looked back.

I use a TurboTorch STK-9


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## Bill

dang, looks just like the one for acetylene

Google search images is where i found it


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## grandpa

Now that MAPP is no longer available, has anyone used the replacement MapPro yet? It is supposed to perform the same. Any problems?


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## GrumpyPlumber

grandpa said:


> Now that MAPP is no longer available, has anyone used the replacement MapPro yet? It is supposed to perform the same. Any problems?


 *Whoa...MAPP no longer available??*

*I'm with the majority, MAPP only.*
*Used Propane for years, either a #3 or #5 tip did the trick, #2 never left the bucket, took much longer to heat the pipe.*
*Acetylene is way too noisy & the tank is a ***** lugging through crawlspaces.*
*With MAPP I put the flame directly on the fitting nice n close for about 15-20 seconds, then back it away to maintain the heat while I solder, Killer has a valid point about roasting the flux...thats about the only advantage I can think of with propane.*

*Service Guys point about wet pipe is a biggy, most of my solder work is on wet pipes, MAPP makes a huge difference over propane there.*


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## user4

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *Acetylene is way too noisy & the tank is a ***** lugging through crawlspaces.*



I made a 75' hose for my propane tank, when I have to go into a crawlspace the tank stays topside, all I take in is the handle and hose.


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## rex

propane always...i use a crosstech torch tip....self igniting with single barrel......

http://supplierofchoice.com/357_self_igniting.htm


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## 22rifle

grandpa said:


> Now that MAPP is no longer available, has anyone used the replacement MapPro yet? It is supposed to perform the same. Any problems?


huh????????????


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## GrumpyPlumber

22rifle said:


> huh????????????


*Just did a little looking around, he's right.*
*I'd heard reference to Map-pro before but forgot what it was.*
*Apparently MAPP has been replaced with a very similar product called MAp-Pro...we probably already use it without knowing.*
*The new Mapp is a slightly different mixture than MAPP, weighs less and is more environmentally friendly....good call Grandpa.*


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## Plumberman

I like the MAPP when Ive got to head under the house instead of dragging my acetylene bottle and clogging up the tip. Killers idea with the hose will come in handy I like that one. Me and Goss tips for the MAPP bottles dont get along too well. I have already gone through two of them in a year..... I like Roths tip and ignighter they have out. It burns hot and quick. When we burn the big copper the only thing that comes out the truck is the acetylene bottle. I have seen smaller bottles of acetylene, smaller than the B tank but they dont have enough gas in them to amount to anything....


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## user4

I see most of you use disposable tanks, I think they are a huge waste of money, but I use a torch basically all day everyday, seeing as we install all copper waste vent and water. Last time I checked a 1 lb disposable propane tank was about two and a half dollars, I can fill a six pound propane tank for nine dollars.

I don't even own a torch head that fits a disposable tank anymore.


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## GrumpyPlumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> I see most of you use disposable tanks, I think they are a huge waste of money, but I use a torch basically all day everyday, seeing as we install all copper waste vent and water. Last time I checked a 1 lb disposable propane tank was about two and a half dollars, I can fill a six pound propane tank for nine dollars.
> 
> I don't even own a torch head that fits a disposable tank anymore.


* You get good prices.*
*The disposables are incomparably easier to use.*
*In service plumbing you might find yourself doing a 4rth floor job with no elevator, the more tools and stock you can lug in one trip, the faster you get done.*
*Another reason I'm no fan of a B tank.*


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## Bill

grandpa said:


> Now that MAPP is no longer available, has anyone used the replacement MapPro yet? It is supposed to perform the same. Any problems?


Never knew they changed it. If I had picked up the new map it works fine


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## user4

GrumpyPlumber said:


> * You get good prices.*


I haven't priced a disposable tank in five years, if that is any reference, and I get my propane from the people that supply me with that as well as C-35, nitrogen, oxygen, acetylene, helium, and argon.


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## GrumpyPlumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> I haven't priced a disposable tank in five years, if that is any reference, and I get my propane from the people that supply me with that as well as C-35, nitrogen, oxygen, acetylene, helium, and argon.


* I'm pretty sure they're petrolium by-products...recalling the cost of gas 5 years ago, that makes sense.*


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## service guy

GrumpyPlumber said:


> *In service plumbing you might find yourself doing a 4rth floor job with no elevator, the more tools and stock you can lug in one trip, the faster you get done.*
> *Another reason I'm no fan of a B tank.*


Ditto.:thumbsup:


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## grandpa

http://www.petromont.com/en/accueilen.htm

Petromont was apparently the only company in North America producing MAPP, so when they ceased operations in Feb. 2008, Worthington Cylinders is the company which stepped forward with the MapPro. I just haven't used it yet.

http://www.worthingtoncylinders.com/documents/map_pro_introduce_announce_021908.pdf


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## threaderman

I prefer acetylene [b-tank],and I use all turbo-torch tips as well.I use the correct tip size for the pipe and application I'm working with.It sucks brazing with anything but,especially in a hole.
There are times when I use map gas,for small or quick repairs in a crawl or attic,but as killer said,if you carry extra hose you're good to go.


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## Cal

Gentlemen , Have used em' ALL over the last 30 years . Now that service is pretty much my only game ,,, just using MAPP . It works Well ! 

I have this little rig . It is GREAT ! Carries all my little solder stuff,,,

http://www.lenoxtools.com/enUS/Produ...CH_SYSTEM.html


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## user4

Cal said:


> Gentlemen , Have used em' ALL over the last 30 years . Now that service is pretty much my only game ,,, just using MAPP . It works Well !
> 
> I have this little rig . It is GREAT ! Carries all my little solder stuff,,,
> 
> http://www.lenoxtools.com/enUS/Produ...CH_SYSTEM.html


There are no gentlemen here, we're plumbers.


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## Cal

Go ahead ,,,, start with me . The poodle ain't the only thing that bites ,


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## user4

Cal said:


> Go ahead ,,,, start with me . The poodle ain't the only thing that bites ,



:laughing:


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## GrumpyPlumber

Cal said:


> Go ahead ,,,, start with me . The poodle ain't the only thing that bites ,


*I just wanna see a match between poodle & machine gun kitty.*


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## Bill

maybe the cat carries an AK for just such poodles!


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## Ron

Ah yea machine kitty against the colt45 monkey, monkey won't have a chance.


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## Bill

What? You dont think? Sick the kitty monkey!


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## Ron

Ok back on topic, there not going to change the color of the tank are they?


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## Bill

I have to go into town tomorrow, all this talk about a different map gas and all I know one of cans I got is about 6 months old or better. Found it in the front of my trailer. Just want to see if it had changed here.


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## Mike Jessome

The company I work for only uses MAPP cylinders, but the most we ever do is maybe 2" pressure on commercial buildings we also use the Lenox mobile system and the Lenox self igniting tip


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## tonynh3

propane may be cheaper to buy but you will use more of it do do the same job


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## Marlin

I love acytlyne and will probably always carry a tank with me. The torch itself is smaller and lighter, you can change tip sizes, it can burn a lot hotter then MAPP. 
When you have to hold the torch all day especially up on a latter above your head it's nicer that it's a couple pounds lighter. Also while up on a latter you can also hang the hose over a rung instead of trying to balance a MAPP tank up on top. I never have enough space on top of a latter and any space saved is nice in my opinion.
You can use a very small tip, smaller then the smallest MAPP tip. This is nice when working in small sensitive areas. You can also use a very large tip that is going to burn hotter then the largest tip your mapp tank has. That's good when heating up big copper fittings. It's even more handy when you're heating up old steam fittings to un thread them.
That said MAPP has more of a place in the service side of the buisness. It's much easier to take a box with everything you need to solder inside then carrying your box and a B tank. 
So basically changing a boiler a B tank wins every time. If you're just changing an angle valve the MAPP is much more convenient. That's why I carry both.


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## gear junkie

For one or two fittings I'll usually use mapp gas but for a whole bathroom or something to that effect, I prefer oxy acetlyne with captain hook tips. Very fast and less chance of burning the backer boards because of the focused heat.


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## Plumberman

I suck with oxy/acetlyne. I have blowen holes in fittings when I first started soldering. The HVac guys I work with think I am crazy when I fire up my b-tank to silver braze with my #6 tip.


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## plumbingpaul

*mapp or accet*

there is nothing like lighting your b tank and burning copper with accetylene, but I gott to go mapp for portability and quick use.:thumbsup:


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## That One Guy

Mapp for me, and as already pointed out it's great for service work when you have to walk all over. I only use acetylene when Im brazing type L or K underground or 1 1/4" or bigger.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING

I run with an MC tank in acetylene. 


I don't like the long flame pattern on those canister torches and I can put that torch head at any angle without losing my flame.


Working inside concealed walls like replacing a tub/shower valve with no access to the back side is one prime example of flame control that's desperately needed.



My customers complain about the loudness of my torch, I'm just numb, deaf from years of use.



What's amazing is I only go through 2 or 3 bottles of the MC type tanks a year. I really don't do a whole lot of soldering anymore in plumbing....doing primarily service.


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## That One Guy

I was talking with some other plumbers at the supply house a few weeks back about how soldering my soon be a lost art. I know Ive been doing alot of repipes in pex the last few years only using copper stubs.


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## plumbingpaul

*Soldering a thing of the past*

_I too have used pex quite a bit in recent years but when your soldering there is nothing like it, it is an art . besides the flux burns on my hands I prefer copper and soldering to any pex pipe. I became enraged a few years back when my boss started using this manablock atrocity. Your more of an electrician pulling home runs then a plumber, soon they will be able to train monkeys to install that stuff. Thats why I prefer commercial work where copper is still king._


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## That One Guy

I walked into an unfinished repipe job by another company that was done in copper with sharkbite fittings  I thought OMFG, handy clown alert! You could grab the shower valve and move it any way you wanted to. I use sharkbite for 2 things and 2 things only, mobile homes with polybutylene (spelling) and cap's for the night. 

I also have been using alot more of the propress system because It reduces down time for my commercial customers. Like when I had to repair a 2" water line in a restuarant and they were freaking out about the health inspector walking in with no running water.


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## plumbingpaul

*ProPress*

I guess pro press is good for service calls but I dont trust it. When it first came out my boss started using it on his commercial jobs and we had so many leaks from clowns not using it right. Good news was I got some money from the recycler cutting out all those 2" copper 90's that were leaking!


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## Proud Plumber

Mapp for me, with lennox torch. Is it true that mapp burns hotter than acetylene?


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## Marlin

That One Guy said:


> I walked into an unfinished repipe job by another company that was done in copper with sharkbite fittings  I thought OMFG, handy clown alert! You could grab the shower valve and move it any way you wanted to. I use sharkbite for 2 things and 2 things only, mobile homes with polybutylene (spelling) and cap's for the night.
> 
> I also have been using alot more of the propress system because It reduces down time for my commercial customers. Like when I had to repair a 2" water line in a restuarant and they were freaking out about the health inspector walking in with no running water.


Forget handyclown, they probably could have done it in stainless for less then those shark bite fittings cost.


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## That One Guy

No doubt Marlin, they are almost 10 bucks here. 

Proud Plumber, alot of guys dont realize that you have to calibrate the gun before using it every time you turn it on then they slam the pipe into the fitting and screw up the o-ring.


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## trick1

It really depends for me....I like my B-Tank because I can change the tip size and have more control of the heat, especially with smaller diameter fittings. I'll use my MAPP setup if I have solder one or two joints

I've never been a fan of the turbo flame on the MAPP setup. You lose a certain level of control because of the size of the flame....just my opinion though


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## Proud Plumber

That One Guy said:


> No doubt Marlin, they are almost 10 bucks here.
> 
> Proud Plumber, alot of guys dont realize that you have to calibrate the gun before using it every time you turn it on then they slam the pipe into the fitting and screw up the o-ring.


Calibrate? I think I might be one of those guys, can you elaborate?


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## user4

That One Guy said:


> No doubt Marlin, they are almost 10 bucks here.
> 
> Proud Plumber, alot of guys dont realize that you have to calibrate the gun before using it every time you turn it on then they slam the pipe into the fitting and screw up the o-ring.


A pro press gun has to be calibrated after so many pressed joints, the number varies depending on the size of the joint. Viega designed the gun to sense when it was out of calibration and shut itself off, whether that technology is still used by the design leased by Ridgid is beyond my knowledge.


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## ILPlumber

Killertoiletspider said:


> A pro press gun has to be calibrated after so many pressed joints, the number varies depending on the size of the joint. Viega designed the gun to sense when it was out of calibration and shut itself off, whether that technology is still used by the design leased by Ridgid is beyond my knowledge.


 
I think it's around 30,000 joints on my ridgid battery gun. I wonder what it will cost to have it re-calibrated.

On a side note. If you need extra batteries. Makita cordless tool batteries are the same.


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## That One Guy

If I remember right they said after 20,000 but I need to check and see. It's a ridgid battery operated btw and it doesnt get alot of use. 

What I mean by calibrate before each use or first use of the day is simply press the trigger and let it operate once with no joint.


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## ILPlumber

green light flashing = needs calibrated before use.
solid green = ready to press fitting


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## Protech

Killertoiletspider said:


> Not sure, how long does it take to overheat it and burn the flux out with MAPP?


I'm not sure, I never do that. I use self start on tank mapp for service soldering and brazing. If I'm running lots of copper solder I use Acetylene/air turbo torch. If doing lots of brazing I go oxy/acetylene


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## muck

over 3 inch i use acetylene anythin under is mapp. we did a couple stores with propress and we hated it. a 3 inch 90 blew off when we were testing. after a couple hours at 100 psi it blew off in the building, sounded like a gun shot. after that it seems like we weened off of the gun


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## Wethead

muck said:


> over 3 inch i use acetylene anythin under is mapp. we did a couple stores with propress and we hated it. a 3 inch 90 blew off when we were testing. after a couple hours at 100 psi it blew off in the building, sounded like a gun shot. after that it seems like we weened off of the gun



I agree with you as well on the mapp gas,, but I have heard that the propress is pretty good, 

Is this the first fitting that you have ever seen blow off?


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## muck

Yes just that one. the o ring was gone when it was picked up off the floor, so we arnt sure if it was on there to begin with. never found it.


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## ILPlumber

Was it pressed?
Low battery signal on that press and didn't get repressed?
Pipe not buried in the fitting?

It's hard to tell if 3" and up is pressed or not from a distance.

The o-ring does nothing as far as keeping the joint together.

I've never heard of PP blowing apart like that.
I hope it was installation error rather than product failure.

We have had a very few sticks of pipe over the years the fittings were loose on. They got scrapped. Maybe 2-3 pieces in 15 years though


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## muck

i didnt install it but i have a feeling that it was not installed properly. There were a bunch of leaks on our main in that store. I think that the gun was not being calibrated right when they changed sizes. We were getting new people in every day from diffrent jobs at that time. some no one admits to who did what.


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## Plumberman

muck said:


> i didnt install it but i have a feeling that it was not installed properly. There were a bunch of leaks on our main in that store. I think that the gun was not being calibrated right when they changed sizes. We were getting new people in every day from diffrent jobs at that time. some no one admits to who did what.


:laughing: People never do when bad stuff happens.


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## Pipemaster

*oNCE AGAIN WE SEE THE OL" "o" RING RAISE ITS FUGLY HEAD*

:whistling2:


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## Adamche

Oxy- acetylene for me, I do have a small mapp gas torch only for 1/2" or 3/4. We don't use soft solder, only silver brazing!


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## futz

Adamche said:


> Oxy- acetylene for me, I do have a small mapp gas torch only for 1/2" or 3/4. We don't use soft solder, only silver brazing!


Hehehe :laughing: Four year old thread revival.


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## Fullmetal Frank

service guy said:


> You're kidding right? Propane is pathetic. Then again I am a service guy, so all the pipes I solder are wet....propane doesn't cut it. I started with acetylene bottles, now I use MAPP.


What a waste, trying to cook out the water, bread and jet sweats, and propane works just fine, I have not filled my "B" tank in.......

Edit: scratch that I've not filled it since before this thread started.


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## Mississippiplum

Fullmetal Frank said:


> What a waste, trying to cook out the water, bread and jet sweats, and propane works just fine, I have not filled my "B" tank in.......
> 
> Edit: scratch that I've not filled it since before this thread started.


I use propane on the smaller stuff and I got no 
Complains as well.

sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## plbgbiz

Fullmetal Frank said:


> What a waste, trying to cook out the water, bread and jet sweats, and propane works just fine, I have not filled my "B" tank in.......
> 
> Edit: scratch that I've not filled it since before this thread started.


Same here. Last time I had the B tank out I was melting lead for sinkers.


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## AWWGH

Mostly use my B tank. But do I have a small MAPP gas torch with me at all times too.


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## johnlewismcleod

I carry a B-tank rig, MC rig, and a MAPP bottle rig. 

With MAPP you've got the option to braze or soft solder and can do either fast.

Acetylene for brazing the bigger stuff.


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## futz

OK, I'll get in on this one. :laughing: I do 98% of my soldering with a TurboTorch TX504 on 1 lb MAPP bottles. I used propane bottles with it for a while, but the flame on the TX504 is too fluffy and soft with propane, and not hot enough. MAPP gives a nice tight hot flame and works great for most soft soldering up to 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" or so.

For bigger work (lots of 1-1/4" and bigger) I have a B-Tank and a TurboTorch self-lighting torch something like this (not sure if that's the exact one). It's obnoxiously screaming loud - have to wear ear protection, but really hot and fast.


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## PlungerJockey

I use mapp for about everything day to day, I it's big stuff I use the Pro-Press.

I make the helpers use propane, it keeps them from burning stuff up.


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## HSI

I picked up the TT believe it is the 504 with MAPP gas tank. Soldered up several 2" joints and was impressed. My b tank will probably lose it spot on the truck.


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## damnplumber

*Acetylene*

I usually use acetylene because it's fast, hot and not home-owner handy...in other words it looks m ore professional.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB

I only use acetylene.. Its professional and not homeowner friendly. Using mapp only diminishes our skill even more and look "easy" to the customer.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER

damnplumber said:


> I usually use acetylene because it's fast, hot and not home-owner handy...in other words it looks m ore professional.


I like that. Looks more pro. I use a Goss tips( no screaming and a nice rose bud.. I highly recommend Goss) in my Lenox rig on my b tanks for any thing 1/2" and up but if on a roof or just a small amount of fitting il use my Lenox torch with mapp. Never tried propane. That's for my heater in the blind I do a lot of sweating so a b tank is the way for me. I carry two or 3 tanks at all times. I have a holder welded up just for them and two mapp gas tanks also


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## oldCAplumber

*acetylene over 15 psi can be explosive. The tank has acetone inside that a*
*acetylene to remain stable under pressure. The tank should remain upright if possible and if you tip it upside down or lay it over too far they say you should let it set for a day to let acetone settle. Propane needs too big of flame to get the heat. I use a long hose on the **acetylene and leave bottle outside when i am under a building with larger fittings.
*


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