# Constant Blockage throw a cleanout on?



## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

So i have a friend who has an old 4" Cast iron drainage system that runs out to his septic. About 5 feet out from his foundation wall the drain line makes a 45 turn before entering the septic system. Right were the 45 offset is, is were he has been having some blocking issues. So far its happend twice this year. Usally he is able to snake it from the outlet of the discharge line in septic but that is a huge pain for him. I was thinking of just cutting in a Cleanout maybe even a double cleanout right after the bend so he can snake out any blocks in the future by just opening the cleanout. 

The Cast iron is old its from the 1960s its not a huge run... I dont know the quality of it, if the inside is all gnarled and eaten up snagging toilet paper and what not. what would you guys do here. This is a friend so i want to help him as best as possible without taking him to the cleaners. But i almost wonder if cutting it out completley (execpt of a stub out from the foundation and stub out from the septic) and then just converting to PVC would be the best option. 

Also do you think i would have better luck making the connnection if were to cut the cleanout in with ferncos or should i stick with 4 bands. I know i wont have much play.

Thanks guys


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Charge him the same price as you would anyone else. Your license didn't come cheap...you are licensed?


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## PLUMB TIME (Feb 2, 2009)

If it's only five feet to 1/8 bend and then into the tank, replace with pvc. If your digging anyway why stop at the cleanout?

Also let HIM do the digging, expose pipe, clear around so you can snap it and you show up and do repair. An hour tops .

Shielded couplings only

my .02


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

Get a camera in there and make sure I have scraped the sides clean with the right size head, and check for misalignment.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

I cut cast with a grinder and finish with a sawzall, this way the pipe dont fall apart.

Install cleanout for him, if he want to pay then lay some more PVC.

Use Clamp Alls or boot with solid steel in the middle so the pipe wont offset

I think those ferncos with 4 bands are for vents only....


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## CPT (Aug 13, 2012)

PLUMB TIME said:


> If it's only five feet to 1/8 bend and then into the tank, replace with pvc. If your digging anyway why stop at the cleanout?
> 
> Also let HIM do the digging, expose pipe, clear around so you can snap it and you show up and do repair. An hour tops .
> 
> ...


That's my choice.
:thumbup:


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## 1bddelx (Aug 18, 2012)

CPT said:


> That's my choice.
> :thumbup:


 
Mine too X3


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

If its dug up you should just replace it all.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

As an apprentice in Mass.....
Shouldn't you be talking about this with your boss? :whistling2:


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## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

Redwood said:


> As an apprentice in Mass.....
> Shouldn't you be talking about this with your boss? :whistling2:


If i had a boss yeah i would. But sadly i do not. 


I hire a master plumber real young kid mid 20s to work with me but he's so bad sometimes he does more damage then helps. Plus im doing some good old "christian charity" were im just offering my "skills" to a guy whos given me so much spiritual advice i want to do something nice for him. 

but anyways we can use 4 bands in mass to connect Cast drain pipes im just wondering if i'd even have the play to use them thats why im thinking i might have to use a fernco. 

Im going over their tonight im going to try to peek into the cleanout and see how everything looks. If its a mess im a tear it all out. and just replace it with pvc. My luck though this thing is gonna be a improperly pitched disaster ehh..

im going to cut it with a grinder than finish it off with my sawzall with an iron blade. hopefully the connection will go easy


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Smitten_kitten said:


> If i had a boss yeah i would. But sadly i do not.
> 
> 
> *I hire a master plumber real young kid mid 20s to work with me but he's so bad sometimes he does more damage then helps.* Plus im doing some good old "christian charity" were im just offering my "skills" to a guy whos given me so much spiritual advice i want to do something nice for him.
> ...


Heres your intro that YOU posted.
http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/glad-here-15125/
_____________________________________________________

hey everyone.
glad to be here on this site with so many talented mechanics. *Im a 22 year old apprentice plumber i have about 1.5 years experience.* I started when i was 19yrs old but i was too young to take my job serious. It wasn't until 6 months ago when i saw my first AC coil that i started caring. Ive been a Plumbing/heating/cooling/electrical junkie ever since. I love my Career, i just want to be a great mechanic who can tackle any problem. 
*There is one small glitch in my plan to being a brillannt mechanic that is Im not a very good plumber. I think i may have burned a couple of brain cells when i was just a youngster...*
SO This is were you guys come in. Maybe if we all give it a collective effort i might be able to become a journeymen someday. regardless im going to ask a ton of questions and pick all you pros brains.
Thanks!

_____________________________________________________

Let me get this right, You are in your mid twenty's, got about 3 years as an apprentice,and you admit that you are not a good plumber.

YET, you have the stones to "hire" a master plumber thats so bad he does more harm than good ?

Please tell me your just pulling our leg, and this whole post is just a funny joke you are pulling on us.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

If that master plumber can't rework this with a 2 way c/o installed, tell him I said he needs to just send his license back to the state.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

My handyhack detector is beeping and it won't reset :whistling2:


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

SK, do you have some kind of little co.? Exactly what are you doing for a living?


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## patrick88 (Oct 14, 2008)

Now I see why they bumped the journeyman from 3 to 5 years. Master from 1 to 3. Lol. This master. Needs more work in the field or get out of drain cleaning. Lol


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## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> Heres your intro that YOU posted.
> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/glad-here-15125/
> _____________________________________________________
> 
> ...


 
Hmmm. Ok what has you so worked up? Is it the fact that you feel im insulting the plumbing trade and thus your own credidentials by insuinating that someone who has his "Masters" liscence is in fact not a very good mechanic. If you are offended well I apologize that your feelings were hurt by this. The truth is that this plumber is not that great. although he was able to pass his code test he does not possess the knowledge or drive to be classified as a "Master". He is a Master by name and thats really it. Can he cut in a cleanout into a drain line. Yes he can. People like this do exist out there. Theres alot of plumbers out there and not all of them care about the quality of their work. Some would rather get in get out get paid. if it works thats good enough for them. Im not painting everyone with same brush here. Some Plumbers are better than others regardless the liscence they may share . Im sure you have seen this before. 

.He isn't terrible he just doesn't care. 

And lastly highlighting my Intro in red... come on really?. My teenage years probably look identical to yours. I just joke about it. 

That post wasn't meant to insult anyone on here either


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Smitten_kitten said:


> hey everyone.
> 
> glad to be here on this site with so many talented mechanics. Im a 22 year old apprentice plumber i have about 1.5 years experiance. I started when i was 19yrs old but i was too young to take my job serious. It wasnt until 6 months ago when i saw my first AC coil that i started caring. Ive been a Plumbing/heating/cooling/electrical junkie ever since. I love my Career, i just want to be a great mechanic who can tackle any problem.
> 
> ...



Plumbing, HVAC, and Electrical are three separate trades with separate licenses...and none of them are mechanics.

We've put many years into our trade slopping through sh!tty mud and studied and tested to earn our licenses. 

Want advice on how to do plumbing?: Go to work for a Responsible Master :yes:


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## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

SlickRick said:


> SK, do you have some kind of little co.? Exactly what are you doing for a living?


Sorry CO? do you mean company? if thats what you mean then no im just doing this for a friend from church. I just want to help them out.

I don't have job at the moment. I was working as summer help for a company and was let go when they slowed 2 weeks ago. im searching for a job at the moment and then im going to school for mech. enginneering for HVAC-R starting this winter.. But i Also am trying to get my plumbing liscense too. I have been working on and off for 3 years or so in the field


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## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Plumbing, HVAC, and Electrical are three separate trades with separate licenses...and none of them are mechanics.
> 
> We've put many years into our trade slopping through sh!tty mud and studied and tested to earn our licenses.
> 
> Want advice on how to do plumbing?: Go to work for a Responsible Master :yes:


I agree with you 100% i would never work for a hack person intentionally. I want to work for a responsible master. This guy is just a person i know from around. I dont work for him.


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Smitten_kitten said:


> I agree with you 100% i would never work for a hack person intentionally. I want to work for a responsible master. This guy is just a person i know from around. *I dont work for him*.


THATS RIGHT, YOU HIRED HIM. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

Smitten_kitten said:


> Sorry CO? do you mean company? if thats what you mean then no im just doing this for a friend from church. I just want to help them out.


*" This is a friend so i want to help him as best as possible without taking him to the cleaners. "*

This kind of sounds like you are going to charge him something.:yes:

Thats what gets my hackles up.
Most of the guys here spent many years and thousands of dollars to be in a position to legally charge for their service.

You know what they say, " If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck , walks like a duck " it might be an unlicensed hack trying to be a duck.:yes:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

> 3.03: Licenses and Registration
> 
> (1) Licenses and Registration .
> 
> ...


According to the Massachusetts Plumbing Code even a homeowner cannot do plumbing in their own home....

Nevermind an apprentice doing it unsupervised, charging for it, and running a business... :whistling2:


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Redwood said:


> According to the Massachusetts Plumbing Code even a homeowner cannot do plumbing in their own home....
> 
> Nevermind an apprentice doing it unsupervised, charging for it, and running a business... :whistling2:


 What's worst, asking us for advices for this simple job that could be done by 1st year apprentice PLUMBER under supervison of a LICENSED plumber.


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## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

rjbphd said:


> What's worst, asking us for advices for this simple job that could be done by 1st year apprentice PLUMBER under supervison of a LICENSED plumber.


 
Thanks RJB. 

This thread wasn't supposed to be such a big deal. Ill i really wanted to know is what did you think would be the best way to correct the problem- Throw a band-aid on it or Replace it thats it. 

First off im not charging for it. He is going to pay for whatever materials are needed thats it. Im simply helping a older man who goes to my church who has been a good friend to me who has a problem that i can fix. How is this nothing but a good thing? Im using what i have been taught to essentialy help out a good kindhearted older man and his wife. sue me i don't have a liscence. 

I mean what should i do, tell the old guy to go screw himself. Its kind of ironic I bet alot of you are like everyone else complaining about how this genereation has no respect, has no work ethic yada yada and here I am asking your advice on how to help someone who is incapable of doing this themselves and im getting slammed like im some kind of traitor for doing this. 

I probably ought to assume everyone here on this board never did any sidework ever when they didn't have their liscence...

Also mcleod we are mechanics we work on Mechanical systems.... defination- A *mechanical system* manages power to accomplish a task that involves forces and movement... 

albacore yeah i hired him a couple times most bad some good. but he can pull permits making him useful.


overall this is just stupid in my opinion. I just was trying to help an older person out, yes i know you need a liscence but i think i foolishly assumed this would be encouraged because morally its the right thing to do. People don't help each other out nearly enough thats why this world is tumbling down. People only care about their own profit. What happened to "love your neighbor like yourself" 

Jeeze i'd understand if i asked for advice on installing a geothermal heat pump but im replacing cast iron with PVC... not performing heart surgery. 

Whatever if anyone was insulted i apologize that wasn't the intent at all.


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## PrecisePlumbing (Jan 31, 2011)

The road to hell is paved with good intentions Mr Kitten. I understand you feel what you are doing is right but you have to look at the bigger picture. You are asking questions that someone who would be sufficiently experienced to understand the job wouldn't need to ask. You might feel you are better qualified than the time you have put into your trade but you need more time under a quality tradesman. 
i am a firm believer you are made or broken by the guys that teach you and build your base knowledge. Get a master and do the work under his supervision.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Smitten_kitten said:


> Thanks RJB.
> 
> This thread wasn't supposed to be such a big deal. Ill i really wanted to know is what did you think would be the best way to correct the problem- Throw a band-aid on it or Replace it thats it.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure which is worse, the selfish arrogance of this post or the stupid attempt at rationalizing this as a moral issue.

"Replacing cast iron with PVC...not performing heart surgery"? Get the frack out of my trade!


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## SewerRatz (Apr 25, 2009)

johnlewismcleod said:


> My handyhack detector is beeping and it won't reset :whistling2:


My banned person detector is going off more than the handyhack detector. I have a gut feeling this is a former member that was permanently banned coming around to stir the pot.


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## 130 PLUMBER (Oct 22, 2009)

:laughing::laughing:


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## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

for me it is a moral issue i have my views my beliefs they don't have to be anyone elses. im not trying to rile up anyone i have a life and this is a plumbing forum i have alot better things to do then going around causing problems. I dont see how how i should be banned for this i dont think i have done anything wrong. But obviously this is an issue by everyones reaction. So sorry if anyone got offended. Im only on this board to ask question and try to understand certain Concepts or devices better so i can do better work on the job. This job isn't worth it, im not even going to bother doing it because i think more plumbers who earned their liscence would be affronted as well. I will recommend someone liscened who is very fair 

Its also my fault for joking about my plumbing abilites i joke around alot and online that is a mistake. Im not as terrible as I like to joke about but I still have alot to learn though. Im not taking away from anyones accomplishments and i have alot of respect for the master liscence and the people who worked hard to aquire it.

as for my heart surgery comment if that sounded arrogant it wasn't meant to be it was joking mingled with some truth, I mean its not the most difficult thing to do i think that can be agreeded on. 

In truth did i need to post about this no, i didn't but i like posting stuff on here because i usally will learn atleast 1 thing if not more, and spin off disscussion are great to. 

and PRECISE i do agree with you but i feel its hard to find a master in these harder economic times who is willing to invest their time and energy into teaching someone when money and jobs are getting harder to come by so i circumvent that problem by posting questions online.

I may not be a Proffesional plumber yet but i do think this forum should be a place for apprentices who care and want to improve their skills by discussing ideas with more knowledgable people.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

This is a good place for apprentices, trouble is you are overstepping the boundaries of an apprentice. You might as well get ready to take heat for that. If it is determined you are trolling us, or are a previously banned member you will be be banned, but not just for overstepping your bounds. You may want to stick with questions an apprentice would ask.


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

Smitten_kitten said:


> for me it is a moral issue i have my views my beliefs they don't have to be anyone elses. im not trying to rile up anyone i have a life and this is a plumbing forum i have alot better things to do then going around causing problems. I dont see how how i should be banned for this i dont think i have done anything wrong. But obviously this is an issue by everyones reaction. So sorry if anyone got offended. Im only on this board to ask question and try to understand certain Concepts or devices better so i can do better work on the job. This job isn't worth it, im not even going to bother doing it because i think more plumbers who earned their liscence would be affronted as well. I will recommend someone liscened who is very fair
> 
> Its also my fault for joking about my plumbing abilites i joke around alot and online that is a mistake. Im not as terrible as I like to joke about but I still have alot to learn though. Im not taking away from anyones accomplishments and i have alot of respect for the master liscence and the people who worked hard to aquire it.
> 
> ...


I know alot were hard on ya, but man, taking out a 4in cast iron pipe, & replacing it with pvc, should be a no brainer, even for an apprentice. Doesn't matter if your getting paid, or donating your time. What the guys on here are trying to convey, is if you have to ask us some of these questions, then neither you or your hired Master plumber have any business doing this job. Are you even sure this is a sanitary drain? Is it an old pipe, that possibly was for an old septic tank? Is it a water pipe? Is it an electrical pipe? Is it a storm drain? Is it possibly a sleeve for something? Just saying

Now if you understand what I'm talking about, no more explanation is necessary. If you still don't get it, then no more explanation is possible.

And also if you want to get a license, atleast learn how to spell it. You spelled it wrong in everyone of your posts. If you don't catch that mistake, gotta wonder what your failing to see on the job site.

I wasn't no english or spelling major either, but just my honest, but maybe harsh opinion is, if your going after something worthwhile, (License), & want to be taken seriously, atleast learn how to spell what your striving for.


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## Smitten_kitten (Sep 8, 2011)

Don The Plumber said:


> I know alot were hard on ya, but man, taking out a 4in cast iron pipe, & replacing it with pvc, should be a no brainer, even for an apprentice. Doesn't matter if your getting paid, or donating your time. What the guys on here are trying to convey, is if you have to ask us some of these questions, then neither you or your hired Master plumber have any business doing this job. Are you even sure this is a sanitary drain? Is it an old pipe, that possibly was for an old septic tank? Is it a water pipe? Is it an electrical pipe? Is it a storm drain? Is it possibly a sleeve for something? Just saying
> 
> Now if you understand what I'm talking about, no more explanation is necessary. If you still don't get it, then no more explanation is possible.
> 
> ...


 
Ok Lesson learned, I understand where everyone is coming from it was never supposed to be a disrespectful post it turned into that I apologize. I shouldn't have even posted on this as a question. It is a sanitary drain it is going out to a private septic. I posted it more as something to talk about not really something that required to much help. Obviously any input is always a good thing and i always appreciate it but it was not neccessary. 
Also maybe I should make clear as I must have failed to bring this point across the hired master plumber could do this job with his eyes closed it’s not his lack of skill because there’s plenty there, it’s more the lack of caring and patience that can be a problem. I bring him to jobs because when he is their it is a legal job and I do not have to worry about any consequences of unlicensed work as it goes through the proper channels ie inspection etc... Also if a job was more technical he would save time by being able to figure out a solution to a problem faster than I. But just as of late it was seeming as if he wanted the money far more than he cared about the jobs. I think there were personal issues behind this, but it became more of hassle to have him then not... anyway that isn't the point I recommended to the homeowner a fair licensed plumber who is kindly giving him a good deal. 
My bad on this I got it, I am hoping this can just be a buried post.


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

That was painful . I don't want to go back to the beginning but where did u plain on putting the co ?


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

johnlewismcleod said:


> Plumbing, HVAC, and Electrical are three separate trades with separate licenses...and none of them are mechanics.
> 
> He is using the language properly, John. In my area, "mechanic" is used in conversation amongst tradesman like, "he's a good mechanic." Meaning he is good at his craft. Mechanic used to mean anyone who on worked on or with machines.


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