# NOOOOO! Mr Rooter



## clarkplumber562 (May 9, 2010)

Im not interested in paying for your name and image, and im definitely not interested in charging customers $500.00 for a ballcock, ,now BEAT IT


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

clarkplumber562 said:


> Im not interested in paying for your name and image, and im definitely not interested in charging customers $500.00 for a ballcock, ,now BEAT IT


 Name branding -- That's where the big bucks are.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

clarkplumber562 said:


> Im not interested in paying for your name and image, and im definitely not interested in charging customers $500.00 for a ballcock, ,now BEAT IT


 
charge 450 and give em a deal :thumbsup:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

GREENPLUM said:


> charge 450 and give em a deal :thumbsup:


:laughing: As my dad would say 'I like the way you think.'


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

GREENPLUM said:


> charge 450 and give em a deal :thumbsup:


I'd like to think that I'm better than Mr. Rooter...

Therefore no deal is coming from me $501 it is! :laughing:


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## DJenek (May 4, 2011)

Pretty much everything we pay for (including food, clothing, cars, etc) includes paying for company's brand and image)


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

I would very much like to charge 500 bucks for a ballcock.

Everybody *****es about Mr. Rooter, Ben Franklin and all those franchise companies but I'm here to tell you that like them or not, their bottom lines are all pretty damn impressive. There's a whole lot of sour grapes here and I understand the reason but, those franchises know how to run a profitable business.


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

Profitable business, it's like legal prostitution. 
A guy that I used to work with at the supply house years and years ago (ex bro in law) now works at one of the SH's that I buy from. He told me that his wife's Company had a 50 gal electric go out, called BF and they quoted them $3100 some odd dollars.... I don't care how you put it, it's rape, and if anyone is willing to pay those exuberant prices, I guess they deserve to get it. It wouldn't take many of those a month to "have a profitable business".
Don't know how these people sleep at night...... I may not have a "highly profitable business", but I know that I have a place reserved for me when the time comes.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

that's what makes america great, people can charge what they want. i'm by far the most expense around here. i aim to keep it that way. if you make enough on monday you get to take the rest of the week off and do something that is a lot more fun. i work nights and weekends. i'm really the cheapest by far then because no one else will answer their phone. charge more, work less. or charge more, work more. whatever i feel like. breid..............:rockon:


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## Mega Smash (Oct 9, 2009)

It's worth whatever someone will pay for it.

That said, I strongly disagree with "Plumbing Technicians" charging rape and pillage prices.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

I get the postcards about once a year.

You have to beat down your fellow brotheren plumbers as they are the ones that sell out, peddle this exorbitant way to gain top dollar off the consumer.


Back in my wonder years I sold a 89' Nissan Maxima for almost $5000 above cost. I still know their freaking names.

I blew their heads off, buried them deep in debt on their vehicle. The worst thing that could of ever happened is that tire pulling off the curb. Those people were upside in that loan instantly, and I made 30% above a grand hit. 

All those high fives from the other salesmen, didn't feel right then, surely doesn't feel right today either. I sold on payment and that's what brought the high margin sale on the vehicle.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Would someone please define the "rape and pillage" threshold?

Is it the $6 for the turtle piss Starbucks calls coffee?
Is it the $40 nosebleed ticket to an NBA game?
Is it the $6 bottle of water at a college football game?
Is it the $10 popcorn at the movies?
Is it the $60 12oz ribeye at a 5 star restaurant that costs $15 at IHop?

But because these are expected and customary they are OK right?

To re-quote an old saying...I have no problem with someone that charges less than me for it is clear he knows what his work is worth.


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## Mega Smash (Oct 9, 2009)

Similar story: I (working for one of "those" companies) charged a woman a hair over $3200 to re/re 2 lav sinks with faucets.... with customer supplied parts.

I did it by playing by the book pricing. Felt good when I showed the boss the weeks numbers - still feel sh*tty about it months after leaving that place.


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

These franchise companies are not holding a gun to their customers heads. They are all flat rate companies and the customer knows the price going in. There are a lot of folks out there that are willing to pay the premium because the service and servicemen are always well dressed and professional. These companies offer their customers a level of professionalism and service that a lot of smaller companies do not. Next time you jump into your rusty old van that hasn'nt had a bath is 8 years, dressed in scrubby dirty jeans with a soiled tee shirt and muddy feet, ask youself what sort of image you are presenting to customers. Or, you can just badmouth Mr Rooter et.al and see how many customers that brings in :laughing:


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## Txmasterplumber (Oct 2, 2010)

plbgbiz said:


> Would someone please define the "rape and pillage" threshold?
> 
> Is it the $6 for the turtle piss Starbucks calls coffee?
> Is it the $40 nosebleed ticket to an NBA game?
> ...


I don't go to Starbuck's, not paying $6 for a .50 cup, and $5.50 for their name.
I don't go to NBA games, but I will buy a $2.50 ticket to Nascar
I will not buy bottled water, don't get me started on that issue
I buy the small popcorn, actually
I don't buy the $60 steak, again, all for the name

Well, I was going to rebut on the last quote, but I decided to leave it lie. I guess you could take it many ways..... I'm not looking to "get rich quick" .... I'm looking to service the customer, give them a fair price for the sevice, and hope that I will have a repeat customer when the time comes. I think that we can all agree that there are some people that you just can't please. But, I will not be the cheapest on the block, nor the highest. I just want my little slice of the pie.

I still say that experiance is worth something, but what's the difference between a Cadilac Escalade & a Chevy Tahoe, 

Some people have to show other people that they have money, I would rather show my bank account.


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## clarkplumber562 (May 9, 2010)

nhmaster3015 said:


> I would very much like to charge 500 bucks for a ballcock.
> 
> Everybody *****es about Mr. Rooter, Ben Franklin and all those franchise companies but I'm here to tell you that like them or not, their bottom lines are all pretty damn impressive. There's a whole lot of sour grapes here and I understand the reason but, those franchises know how to run a profitable business.


If saling out my existing customers, just for my personal= equals being profitable(NOT GONE HAPPEN), I'm good, I'll just stick being happy


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

plbgbiz said:


> Would someone please define the "rape and pillage" threshold?





plbgbiz said:


> Is it the $6 for the turtle piss Starbucks calls coffee?


I'd say so. I don't do Starbucks, I like a good strong batch of Eight O'Clock that I make at home in the morning... :thumbup:



plbgbiz said:


> Is it the $40 nosebleed ticket to an NBA game?


You won't see me there... I can't even bother to watch them on TV... :laughing:



plbgbiz said:


> Is it the $6 bottle of water at a college football game?


I'll pass... I'm more interested in letting that used beer out from tailgating before the game...:laughing:



plbgbiz said:


> Is it the $10 popcorn at the movies?


On Demand and Microwave Popcorn works for me... They still have movie theaters? :whistling2:



plbgbiz said:


> Is it the $60 12oz ribeye at a 5 star restaurant that costs $15 at IHop?


Ahhh the 5-Star Restaurant... Never cared much for that... I do have a very good local meat market that I'll go to, and maybe buy ribeyes, which I'll take home and cook on my Weber Grill... :thumbup:

If I want the 5 star effect I'll have my son in law come over and cook them for me he has a head chef gig that he works at, and I can tell him that he doesn't need to put 3 stalks of asparagus on the plate beside the steak in an artistic design...

Just pile them on.... :laughing:


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## plumbtastic (Apr 27, 2011)

Redwood said:


> I'd say so. I don't do Starbucks, I like a good strong batch of Eight O'Clock that I make at home in the morning... :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right on the mark with this. Everything costs too much especially when we work for the guy who makes alot of money and he is the boss. The owner is the only plumber that makes money enough to spend like thta.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumbtastic said:


> ....The owner is the only plumber that makes money enough to spend like thta.


I think my point might have been missed. But first, the statement above is only true if you work for the wrong guy. 

My point was that consumers pay through the nose with what I consider to be "rape/pillage" rates every day. They see something they want and will go through Hell and high water to get it, no matter how stupid the cost. 

Demonizing a provider based on price alone without having full knowledge of their level of service is a course I try to avoid. This may actually be a point PCP and I would agree on. 

Assuming ethical practices are in place, a higher price for a higher level of service can be a very good thing for all of us.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Txmasterplumber said:


> I don't go to Starbuck's, not paying $6 for a .50 cup, and $5.50 for their name.
> I don't go to NBA games, but I will buy a $2.50 ticket to Nascar
> I will not buy bottled water, don't get me started on that issue
> I buy the small popcorn, actually
> ...


What is wrong with wanting to buy quality products? I would buy an Escalade if it were practical and fit my needs, and you know why? Its because its the best, and I like having the best. It rarely lets you down, almost always performs the way it is expected. Its the same thing I try and sell to my customers. Who the hell walks into a job and says "Here you go, this is a great middle shelf product that should minimally satisfy your needs."? Instead, I would think most of us try and sell 'The Best'.

I may not agree with all this "Raping and pillaging" that seems to be so prevalent, but I will not short change myself. I went into business to make a good life(my definition) for myself and my family, and that means I need to charge accordingly to provide all those things I think I need. 
A good salary, money in the bank, investments, quality vehicles, toys, charity, etc... It cost to live a comfortable life, and someone has to pay for it. 

Why can't we charge a premium for our services? 

Of those who are claiming they are better, would you like to take it a step further, and divulge what you draw out of your company?


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

plbgbiz said:


> I think my point might have been missed. But first, the statement above is only true if you work for the wrong guy.


How many "guys" until I get to the right one?
Changed companies 4 times, not because I didn't like where I worked, but the pay for my works was SERIOUSLY lacking. Each time my pay is a step up, but nowhere near enough.

If you live in the DMV area you understand what I'm talking about. Unless you work for the "devil" working commission plus base pay with over priced work and shotty material trying to hit your quota and two of three fors, you can't live where you work if your the main bread winner...

I live 3 two counties south of our too large service area. It's 40 miles one way to the shop. There are very few days where I put less than 150 miles a day om my van.

So here is the real question... if you have employees what's a real fair price for the hours worked versus your cost to the consumer? How do add it into the final bill and cover overhead and make a profit?

For me to live near I work I'd have to make at least 35/hr straight time and still bebop back and forth in the van as a service tech.

At what point does your charge over shadow what your customer can pay? Sure we'd all like to well to do customers, but in reality not all customers are.


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

plumb nutz said:


> How many "guys" until I get to the right one?
> Changed companies 4 times, not because I didn't like where I worked, but the pay for my works was SERIOUSLY lacking. Each time my pay is a step up, but nowhere near enough.
> 
> If you live in the DMV area you understand what I'm talking about. Unless you work for the "devil" working commission plus base pay with over priced work and shotty material trying to hit your quota and two of three fors, you can't live where you work if your the main bread winner... do add it into the final bill and cover overhead and make a profit?


There you have it. You have set your own wage. You made a conscious decision regarding what you are willing to do for money. It is the only thing limiting your income.

Wealth comes at a price.


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

The questions was at what point do you price yourself out of the market for what you think is a reasonable charge. 

Second I find it odd that you go after pcplumber so hard then simply state that "i decide what I'm worth"
Isn't that what he does?


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Get off your self righteous soap box. Everybody wants to make more money right ? Heres a question for you: where do you expect that big pay check to come from?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plumb nutz said:


> The questions was at what point do you price yourself out of the market for what you think is a reasonable charge.
> 
> Second I find it odd that you go after pcplumber so hard then simply state that "i decide what I'm worth"
> Isn't that what he does?


 Not the same, not by any stretch of the imagination.

PC is an unapologetic predator -- Huge difference.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

If you fail to see the difference between PlumbCrazy and PC Plumbers business ethics there isn't much hope for you guys... :laughing:

Are you serious or, just bored and felt like stirring the pot to liven things up? :whistling2:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

ckoch407 said:


> Get off your self righteous soap box. Everybody wants to make more money right ? Heres a question for you: where do you expect that big pay check to come from?


 Some of us actually give a rats ass how we make our money.

Hopefully you're evolved enough to understand the difference between making an honest living and fleecing your customers.


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

I do not like his tactics much either. That's not the point. Point is you can't question ones tactics and then say that the individual decides their worth. It's hypocritical, period. He makes his living with strong arm tactics, moral or not, ethical of not you cannot say its different when its the same.

As far as stirring the pot, the whole point of a forum is discussion and debate. You don't learn veal with atta-boys, good one there all the time. This thread was about the franchise Mr rooter and the price of service. How you control your cost and make your desired profit and not price yourself out of the marketplace was the question.

Seriously do you all hold the value of your work so high only those with the means deserve your service? That you Ned to charge X amount to make sure you profit? And if your overhead includes employees? There cost of travel vs. Gas and vehicle maintenance?

But no i see the point of some is to only bash and ***** and not really try to improve themselves or their businesses.

Believe you me, I've learned a fee things, improved by work, and my interactions with customers because of the ideas discussed... BUT if a few just have a right to ***** and nitpick and not find a way to positively contribute maybe its not worth my time...


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*Just some thoughts*

This country allows us to make as much as we are able and willing to go after. And absolutely nothing wrong with striving for success. Who here doesn't,,, including myself. 
I do think the intention was for our gain to be acquired in an honest upfront manner. As long as that's there why not?
That said,,, I've watched many talk of the exuberant pricing and how well we do,,, and in another thread gripe about diyer's and sideliners thriving so well.
Kinda like bragging on how well we do and then complain about those that aren't willing to pay our prices.


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> This country allows us to make as much as we are able and willing to go after. And absolutely nothing wrong with striving for success. Who here doesn't,,, including myself.
> I do think the intention was for our gain to be acquired in an honest upfront manner. As long as that's there why not?
> That said,,, I've watched many talk of the exuberant pricing and how well we do,,, and in another thread gripe about diyer's and sideliners thriving so well.
> Kinda like bragging on how well we do and then complain about those that aren't willing to pay our prices.


Somewhere in the middle of all that there is a balance....:laughing:


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## Phat Cat (Apr 1, 2009)

> plumb nutz said:
> 
> 
> > The questions was at what point do you price yourself out of the market for what you think is a reasonable charge.
> ...


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

plumb nutz said:


> I do not like his tactics much either. That's not the point. Point is you can't question ones tactics and then say that the individual decides their worth. It's hypocritical, period. He makes his living with strong arm tactics, moral or not, ethical of not you cannot say its different when its the same.
> 
> As far as stirring the pot, the whole point of a forum is discussion and debate. You don't learn veal with atta-boys, good one there all the time. This thread was about the franchise Mr rooter and the price of service. How you control your cost and make your desired profit and not price yourself out of the marketplace was the question.
> 
> ...



I get your point, and it's a righteous one.

We're a contentious lot -- Sometimes hypocritical and sometimes wishy-washy.

Newcomers may come and go, and the occasional troll may surface from time to time, including trollish blasts from the past -- But I believe the core members of this group are good people just trying to muddle their way through life the best they can.

And just so we're clear -- Muddle in the present context is not meant to be derogatory.


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

no matter what you charge there will be somebody that will think it is to much. yep. yep. yep. i'm the most expensive here. when i get to much work i raise my rates. i keep bouncing this up until a few customers drop off. it will surprise you how high that is. then when i get to busy i do it over again. most people have no idea what the market will bear. you or your customers may not be able to afford me but mine can. breid............. :rockon:


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

Widdershins said:


> Some of us actually give a rats ass how we make our money.
> 
> Hopefully you're evolved enough to understand the difference between making an honest living and fleecing your customers.


Fleecing? Again, who's holding the gun to the customers head? When you set your price regardless of what it COSTS you to operate AND make profit based on what the competition is charging then you are just another small fish swimming in a big pond. We are the most expensive company in the area by a large margin. We are also one of the biggest and have a huge customer base. Others would say that we fleece our customers because we are not willing to go to work and not make profit. I don't do this for the excersize.


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

plumb nutz said:


> The questions was at what point do you price yourself out of the market for what you think is a reasonable charge...


When customers refuse to pay the price.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Indeed I am, and am sharply aware of the difference. Fleecing would be by way of deception, and thats not for me. BUT, just because one charges more, or a helluva lot more, does not automatically mean they are ripping anybody off. And I am most certainly all for charging more because to me it means raising the bar... delivering the highest level of service, making a nice living, taking a vacation, health insurance that actually covers something, possibly retiring one day. Something wrong with that? 





Widdershins said:


> Some of us actually give a rats ass how we make our money.
> 
> Hopefully you're evolved enough to understand the difference between making an honest living and fleecing your customers.


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## plumb nutz (Jan 28, 2011)

ckoch407 said:


> Indeed I am, and am sharply aware of the difference. Fleecing would be by way of deception, and thats not for me. BUT, just because one charges more, or a helluva lot more, does not automatically mean they are ripping anybody off. And I am most certainly all for charging more because to me it means raising the bar... delivering the highest level of service, making a nice living, taking a vacation, health insurance that actually covers something, possibly retiring one day. Something wrong with that?


It was meant to be a rhetorical question, I mean can you REALLY know?
Probably not until its too late. But there is a line you can cross where you charge more than your market can bare and current or potential customers go elsewhere. I don't know you or your market, it wasn't meant at anyone person.


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

plumb nutz said:


> It was meant to be a rhetorical question, I mean can you REALLY know?
> Probably not until its too late. But there is a line you can cross where you charge more than your market can bare and current or potential customers go elsewhere. I don't know you or your market, it wasn't meant at anyone person.



I believe the whole "what the market can bare" theory is over rated. There are different segments of any market and you have to compare apples to apples. Some people actually know the difference between handy hack, main stream, and premium service providers and each has a different level of tolerance for what they will "bare". Some middle class average folks are more than happy paying the premium service and will turn their nose up at a main stream company's lower prices. And, conversely, there are well off people who will only pay a handy hack wage and will turn their nose up at anything else. It is wise to know the difference, define yourself and your market, and offer a range of service that fits your self-defined parameters. Once one accepts this reality, what is left to debate or bad mouth? (I mean this broadly, not singling anyone out).


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## ckoch407 (Sep 30, 2009)

Hey Dunbar. Just out of curiosity, did you ever think that person would have kept going place to place until he got what he wanted no matter the price? I know it probably doesnt make you feel any better if you already feel that way, but it sounds like they knew what they were doing. 






DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> I get the postcards about once a year.
> 
> You have to beat down your fellow brotheren plumbers as they are the ones that sell out, peddle this exorbitant way to gain top dollar off the consumer.
> 
> ...


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## nhmaster3015 (Aug 5, 2008)

ckoch407 said:


> I believe the whole "what the market can bare" theory is over rated. There are different segments of any market and you have to compare apples to apples. Some people actually know the difference between handy hack, main stream, and premium service providers and each has a different level of tolerance for what they will "bare". Some middle class average folks are more than happy paying the premium service and will turn their nose up at a main stream company's lower prices. And, conversely, there are well off people who will only pay a handy hack wage and will turn their nose up at anything else. It is wise to know the difference, define yourself and your market, and offer a range of service that fits your self-defined parameters. Once one accepts this reality, what is left to debate or bad mouth? (I mean this broadly, not singling anyone out).


Well, that's it exactly. I really object to those that feel that just because some companies charge way over what they do that fleecing is going on. We openly discourage an entire sector of the market because frankly, they are a credit risk. I still say it's a whole lot of sour grapes and usually you hear it from one man shops that can't charge more because they can't provide the level of CONTINUOUS service excellence that a larger company can. By that I mean that they can only work one job at a time.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

ckoch407 said:


> I believe the whole "what the market can bare" theory is over rated. There are different segments of any market and you have to compare apples to apples. Some people actually know the difference between handy hack, main stream, and premium service providers and each has a different level of tolerance for what they will "bare". Some middle class average folks are more than happy paying the premium service and will turn their nose up at a main stream company's lower prices. And, conversely, there are well off people who will only pay a handy hack wage and will turn their nose up at anything else. It is wise to know the difference, *define yourself and your market, and offer a range of service that fits your self-defined parameters.* Once one accepts this reality, what is left to debate or bad mouth? (I mean this broadly, not singling anyone out).



I think you just condensed the entire succesful method into that one sentance. :thumbsup: Right on man.


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## smellslike$tome (Jun 16, 2008)

Love them or hate them, if it weren't for the franchises a lot of you would still be trying to survive on $50 an hour (or whatever the "going rate" is in your area). When Billy Bob decides to open up "Billy Bob's Plumbing", the first thing he usually does is call around to all the other shops to get pricing which he promptly undercuts by 1/2 since he has no customers but wants to get some. Of course not everyone does it this way but a lot do, and I did too. So BF rolls into town or MR.R, and Billy Bob finds out they're getting $500 for a ballcock, guess what, Billy Bob's price just went from $75 to $150 or even $200 BASED SOLELY ON HIS PERCEPTION THAT HE IS OFFERING A DEAL compared to everyone else after all that's how he determined what his pricing should be in the first place. Tell me I'm wrong. His costs didn't change but all of a sudden he can maintain his self righteous comfort level at $150 simply because someone else charges more. Explain that logic to me. 

This all comes back to the tired old argument about how much profit is too much profit. You should be charging as much as you can. Have a predetermined allowable percentage of "service fee only" calls and live within that range. If the percentage starts creeping up too high, figure out why and correct it (it may not be that your price is too high). If the percentage drops down very low or if everybody hires you then you are most certainly not charging enough. 

So who gets to determine how much profit is allowed? Are we all honest if we scrape out 5% (that's a measly 50k on 1 million in sales by the way). Are we allowed to sleep peacefully at this number? What about 10% or 20%? If we make a 20% profit are we wretched thieves? What about 50%? Who gets to draw the line?

If we tell a customer "it will cost $1000" and they say ok and we know that we will make 50% profit at that number are we dishonest? Is it ok if we tell a customer "it will cost $1000 and half of that will be profit". Now can we sleep at night. I'm telling you that the customer has no right to care! The only thing they need to say is "yes" or "no". The customer has no right to tell you what to charge, they have every right to accept or decline your terms. In reality they do dictate but to use PC's example you still decide where you want to live, bottom 10%, middle 80%, or top 10%. Do not misunderstand me, I have not nor would I advocate using any sort of deception but when someone says "ok" with their authorization signature, shut your pie hole and get to work and do the best job you know how to do.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> Love them or hate them, if it weren't for the franchises a lot of you would still be trying to survive on $50 an hour (or whatever the "going rate" is in your area). When Billy Bob decides to open up "Billy Bob's Plumbing", the first thing he usually does is call around to all the other shops to get pricing which he promptly undercuts by 1/2 since he has no customers but wants to get some. Of course not everyone does it this way but a lot do, and I did too. So BF rolls into town or MR.R, and Billy Bob finds out they're getting $500 for a ballcock, guess what, Billy Bob's price just went from $75 to $150 or even $200 BASED SOLELY ON HIS PERCEPTION THAT HE IS OFFERING A DEAL compared to everyone else after all that's how he determined what his pricing should be in the first place. Tell me I'm wrong. His costs didn't change but all of a sudden he can maintain his self righteous comfort level at $150 simply because someone else charges more. Explain that logic to me.
> 
> This all comes back to the tired old argument about how much profit is too much profit. You should be charging as much as you can. Have a predetermined allowable percentage of "service fee only" calls and live within that range. If the percentage starts creeping up too high, figure out why and correct it (it may not be that your price is too high). If the percentage drops down very low or if everybody hires you then you are most certainly not charging enough.
> 
> ...


:yes:


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