# Pex failure



## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Today was the first time I was called to a job which turned out to be a brass pex fitting failure. Wasn't well put together at the factory anyway. More than a few issues to resolve next week. :thumbup:


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## Boundry (Jul 14, 2012)

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f22/pex-recall-21821/

I got warned about this a few months back, was it on a private water system?


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

Whoa. Bad fitting or a sign of things to come?


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Boundry said:


> http://www.plumbingzone.com/f22/pex-recall-21821/
> 
> I got warned about this a few months back, was it on a private water system?



I've been worrying about some of the jobs I have done with other brands of fitting. My main supplier switched over to carry only but Viega pex and the fittings seems better. 

No it was on a municipal but its a small town with terrible water. Going back and putting a house filter on while fixing some other issues.


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I saw these fittings deteriorate very badly once on a well system that had very acidic water. I couldn't believe how bad they would get eaten up.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> I saw these fittings deteriorate very badly once on a well system that had very acidic water. I couldn't believe how bad they would get eaten up.


The salts in the water here will eat brass up as well, or pretty much any other metal.

Sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

I have cut some out that look real rough and worn. Started to use the plastic fittings but I worry about problems like poly had. I heard pex brass was not full brass and they were facing a law suit.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

UN1TED-WE-PLUMB said:


> Whoa. Bad fitting or a sign of things to come?


I hope sign of things to come
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

TallCoolOne said:


> I hope sign of things to come
> :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Why? 

Is this because your anti-Pex or it will mean more work?


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

Indie said:


> Why?
> 
> Is this because your anti-Pex or it will mean more work?


Mo' money for the TallCoolUgly one :yes::laughing:

I've heard many saying that the zero lead brass is brittle and more susceptible to oxidation...I wonder if that's a zero lead fitting? It certainly appears to have sheared.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I've gone on some PEX leaks before. Most have been overtightened drop ear 90s or fittings crimped wrong or installed incorrectly with too much of a bind. All the leaks where on cheap imported crap. I've never seen a leak on a USA brass PEX fitting. I've seen leaks on Wirsbo EP fittings also.


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Indie said:


> Why?
> 
> Is this because your anti-Pex or it will mean more work?


For me. More Work.

I just hope a sign of the times to come....


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## UN1TED-WE-PLUMB (Oct 3, 2012)

I'll take more easy poly type repairs any day of the week:thumbsup:


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

TallCoolOne said:


> For me. More Work.
> 
> I just hope a sign of the times to come....


What kind of Pex do you use?


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

I have seen almost 10 of these failures. Every incident has been the 1/2" shearing off, and all on the more recent pex stuff, not the bulkier older fittings. When doing repairs I usually try to put in 3/4" tees and then reduce, or run 3/4 to fixture. It is an easy up sell to a more expensive water system when you have the proof in your hand! 

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

redbeardplumber said:


> I have seen almost 10 of these failures. Every incident has been the 1/2" shearing off, and all on the more recent pex stuff, not the bulkier older fittings. When doing repairs I usually try to put in 3/4" tees and then reduce, or run 3/4 to fixture. It is an easy up sell to a more expensive water system when you have the proof in your hand!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


What upgrade are you offering?


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

The type of water varied on all my cases, from well to municipal. I use Wirsbo but need to look at this viega pex.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I use Sioux Chief fittings and crimp rings only. Use PEX B or Wirsbo pipe. Never have had a issue.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

New homes or basement developments or big renos I give cost with regular pex and then give them a price using wirsbo. If a problem exists where I have access I remove as many 1/2" fittings as I can.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

redbeardplumber said:


> New homes or basement developments or big renos I give cost with regular pex and then give them a price using wirsbo. If a problem exists where I have access I remove as many 1/2" fittings as I can.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I'm going to have to look into this wirsbo. Sounds like its the best Pex system out there.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Indie said:


> I'm going to have to look into this wirsbo. Sounds like its the best Pex system out there.


Been there .. Done that ... That's why we switched to viega pex system


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Indie said:


> I'm going to have to look into this wirsbo. Sounds like its the best Pex system out there.



I used to use Wirsbo. I switched. It's got it's draw backs, hard to go wrong with the tried and true cropper crimp with USA fittings, rings, and crimpers. 

I would probably be using Viega if my supplier carried it.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

OldSchool said:


> Been there .. Done that ... That's why we switched to viega pex system


What problems OS?

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## damnplumber (Jan 22, 2012)

*I use Zurn and Wirsbo*

With over 250 homes in one or the other all over 5-years or more old now...one warranty and it was an improper Wirsbo joint. and one freeze failure (not mine) caused by impropper freeze protection. some dummy put the attic insullation under the PEX!


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

I still have 2 bags of the old ones. No wonder they are failing.

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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

The zurn rep told us that the brass fittings under the right water conditions "de zincify" That is why they switched to plastic fittings.


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

deerslayer said:


> The zurn rep told us that the brass fittings under the right water conditions "de zincify" That is why they switched to plastic fittings.


Yeah, not sure I trust brass anymore, plastic wirsbo where I can. Hmm "de zincify"... Interesting first I've heard.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

deerslayer said:


> The zurn rep told us that the brass fittings under the right water conditions "de zincify" That is why they switched to plastic fittings.


What are the right conditions?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

redbeardplumber said:


> What problems OS?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Wirsbo 

1. Expansion not closing fast enough in cold climate 
2. Had a entire roll of 1000 ft of wirsbo pex defective ...
3. Their pex is not rated for both domestic and heating ( have to buy separate types of pipe)


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## deerslayer (Mar 29, 2012)

Indie said:


> What are the right conditions?


I don't recall to be honest, as it didn't seem to apply to our water around here?


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Wirsbo
> 
> 1. Expansion not closing fast enough in cold climate
> 2. Had a entire roll of 1000 ft of wirsbo pex defective ...
> 3. Their pex is not rated for both domestic and heating ( have to buy separate types of pipe)


Usually the expansion is the challenge in cold weather.


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## Mississippiplum (Sep 30, 2011)

Indie said:


> What are the right conditions?


I'd say low PH, and or high salts in the water but I'm not sure on that

Sent from my iPhone 10.5


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

Indie said:


> I'm going to have to look into this wirsbo. Sounds like its the best Pex system out there.


My opinion it is


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Indie said:


> What kind of Pex do you use?


I have only used pex one time, It was commercial building main line running from meter to building. It was done in PVC, and leaking or gonna to leak more over time. I installed pex, I really don't know the brand.

I do mainly repair on Slab houses on water / Sewer / Gas.


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## JDGA80 (Dec 9, 2012)

Guess I'm lucky that veiga is at every supply house here except home depot who carries shakbite brand pex and brass fittings. Even Lowe's has the veiga pex and both brass and plastic fittings.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

I do believe that fitting is part of a bad batch that was shipped up north. The fittings in this particular batch were machined too cold resulting in stress corrosion cracking later on when exposed to water.

What was the date stamp on the pipe? This type of failure usually occurs 2-4 years after the fittings were placed into service. It is my recommendation that all the fittings be replaced as they are probably all from that same bad batch from zurn. The home owner should seek legal counsel for reimbursement from zurn.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

OldSchool said:


> Wirsbo
> 
> 1. Expansion not closing fast enough in cold climate
> 2. Had a entire roll of 1000 ft of wirsbo pex defective ...
> 3. Their pex is not rated for both domestic and heating ( have to buy separate types of pipe)


Also has the lowest chlorine and UV resistance out of any pex currently on the market. Higher material cost and installation cost than most of the other brands out there as well.


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## JDGA80 (Dec 9, 2012)

Is there any differences ( quality, durability) in the SS crimp rings and the copper ones? I always use SS, cause the one handed ratchet crimper is so much easier to work with in confined spaces.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

JDGA80 said:


> Is there any differences ( quality, durability) in the SS crimp rings and the copper ones? I always use SS, cause the one handed ratchet crimper is so much easier to work with in confined spaces.


I use them sometimes when there is not room to use a copper crimper. I'll be honest though, I've seen a SS cinch ring snap before. I've never seen a copper crimp ring snap.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

JDGA80 said:


> Is there any differences ( quality, durability) in the SS crimp rings and the copper ones? I always use SS, cause the one handed ratchet crimper is so much easier to work with in confined spaces.



The crimp method doesn't seem to make a difference, it all hinges on the fitting used. Although I have messed up a few copper crimps. :laughing: Usually slippery hands or not paying attention and things get screwed up. Much harder to do on Watts stainless.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I'll post some pictures of some snapped SS cinch rings when I get back in.


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## thoenew (Jan 23, 2012)

We've had a few 3/4" x 1/2" brass T's that leak. They don't crack or break, they just started leaking after a few months.


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## johnlewismcleod (Apr 6, 2012)

thoenew said:


> We've had a few 3/4" x 1/2" brass T's that leak. They don't crack or break, they just started leaking after a few months.


http://www.plumbingzone.com/f3/why-post-intro-11368/


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## stephen11962 (Feb 15, 2013)

*Whose fitnings in the photo?*



redbeardplumber said:


> I still have 2 bags of the old ones. No wonder they are failing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I own a 5 year old house with PEX fitting failures. Fittings are by various mfrs, some of which I cannot id because of location but the appear similar to these. 

Thanks in advance.

Stephen


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 28, 2011)

stephen11962 said:


> I own a 5 year old house with PEX fitting failures. Fittings are by various mfrs, some of which I cannot id because of location but the appear similar to these.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Stephen


"Thanks in advance "
For what ?
You made a statement, you didn't ask a question.


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

stephen11962 said:


> I own a 5 year old house with PEX fitting failures. Fittings are by various mfrs, some of which I cannot id because of location but the appear similar to these.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Stephen


Thanks for posting on PlumbingZone.com. The Moderators of this forum would prefer if you post Do It Yourself related topics on our sister site www.DIYChatroom.com 

PlumbingZone.com is designed for professional plumbers to discuss issues and topics related to their profession. Many of our plumbers are also members at DIYChatroom.com and are looking forward to assist you with your needs.

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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

stephen11962 said:


> I own a 5 year old house with PEX fitting failures. Fittings are by various mfrs, some of which I cannot id because of location but the appear similar to these.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Stephen


If there are multiple mfrs failing in the same installation it's not the material that's the problem......


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## Plumberman911 (Dec 23, 2012)

I can't stand ss rings. I use copper. I've had the ss brake while crimping. I've gone back because they pinch the pipe


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Were can we get COPPER pex fittings ??


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

Cal said:


> Were can we get COPPER pex fittings ??


YES go back to those! No problems, they must cost 2 cents more to make.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

Cal said:


> Were can we get COPPER pex fittings ??


Soiux Chef sells copper fittings still. I use there brass fittings, but they have a line of copper fittings too.


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## JoshJ (May 10, 2012)

I've switched to plastic fittings (poly alloy they like to call them) for the last year and a half because of some of rural water around here being too aggressive for brass. No problems so far.


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## plumber joe (Oct 17, 2008)

That is the same problem I have seen in this area, normally on the tee


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## Ghostmaker (Jan 12, 2013)

Could it be Chicom manufactured brass fittings?


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## M5Plumb (Oct 2, 2008)

Will said:


> Soiux Chef sells copper fittings still. I use there brass fittings, but they have a line of copper fittings too.


I've had too many calls with failure of PEX / sweat copper fittings, particularly on recirc lines, I find them and get brass in there. I guess it's just different water conditions being abrasive on the fittings....


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Dang m5. You been around the zone a long time


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