# Pex ferrules



## Plumbnman

Is anyone using pex supply lines and buying extra 3/8" plastic ferrules? If you have had any problems with supply lines blowing off, please contact me by PM or email.


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## chonkie

You talking about the delta ones? I'm still a firm believer that to keep them from blowing off, there needs to be a tubing stiffener insert installed. I never heard back from Delta when I sent them an email months ago about this issue.


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## Tomplumb

I used to use them all the time until I had one blow apart a few years ago. Now I only use braided supply lines. I don't cut the lines on delta faucets either.


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## GREENPLUM

I use them on pex supplies without any problems, no stiffener needed


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## chonkie

So they make just 3/8" pex supply lines? Never seen that, only the ones factory attached to the faucet.

I would think you would still need a tubing stiffener insert to keep it from blowing off. That ferrule needs something stiff to compress against, and that 3/8" pex supply isn't going to be on it's own.


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## GREENPLUM

chonkie said:


> So they make just 3/8" pex supply lines? Never seen that, only the ones factory attached to the faucet.
> 
> I would think you would still need a tubing stiffener insert to keep it from blowing off. That ferrule needs something stiff to compress against, and that 3/8" pex supply isn't going to be on it's own.


Yes, pex supply for lavatory Faucets and toilet supplys, and no stiffener needed with polyferrules


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## 89plumbum

Installed loads of pex supplies with the poly ferrules. I've even comes across plenty with the ferrule in backwards. 

The only gusher I've seen, was from a 3/8 nut where the threads were not fully machined. Therefore the ferrule was not fully compressed and popped out.


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## chonkie

Good to know if the need arises, although I don't plan on using the ones you buy or cutting the ones from the factory.


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## Plumberdood1

Zurn Pex makes them. We have used thousands of them on apartments to save money.
No problems, but I prefer braided lines.


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## Plumberdood1

No inserts on the 3/8.


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## dclarke

I've never had an issue. Just make sure it's a poly ferrule and installed properly. They are directional


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## SchmitzPlumbing

i was on a service call where one blew out. it was a well. no surge in city water pressure. i used to use the poly supplies until that day. now i dont trust them. i dont need the insurance claim. i use pex ice maker lines. so far.....no problems


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## plumbdrum

Be a pro and use these. That other stuff is for homeowners.


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## paultheplumber1

We were using them for a while. We didn't have any trouble with them. What I did find is more and more faucets are not coming with the basin/supply nuts. So if you have to buy the nuts to go with the pex supplys your little bit of savings is out the window.


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## GAN

plumbdrum said:


> Be a pro and use these. That other stuff is for homeowners.
> 
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> View attachment 66146
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> 
> I used a spring bender for years. When you look at bottom line time & profits it is hard to compete with pex supply lines.
> 
> Would set the valves before setting a WC or lav top About a 10 degree angle for them. Trim the top, install supply lines, set the top, flex the lines cut and compress, only thing left the PVC trap and done, maybe 20 minutes.
> 
> Puts more into the companies pockets, never had any serious issue with leaking.


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## Plumbnman

The issue I have had is the extra ferrules are too small and thin. They deform instead of biting into the supply line. I have had 2 problems in the last 2 weeks. One was only installed 3 days before it blew. The other was actually on a dishwasher and had been installed in July. I am freaking out thinking how many of these may be out there, could be 100 houses. I don't want to use any names, but if you buy extra ferrules compare them to the ones that come with the supply lines.


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## Plumbnman

plumbdrum said:


> Be a pro and use these. That other stuff is for homeowners.
> 
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> View attachment 66146
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> View attachment 66154


We only use the pex supply lines under lavs and kitchen sinks. When you install fixtures in almost 400 houses a year, any break in labor cost can help. See my other post as to the problem i am having.


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## plumber11928

plumbdrum said:


> Be a pro and use these. That other stuff is for homeowners.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 66146
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> View attachment 66154


Old school is the way to go. Shows craftmanship. Justification for a higher price to perform the same job someone else would do by twisting a supply line into a pigtail. Its the little details that set you apart from the next guy.


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## plumbdrum

plumber11928 said:


> Old school is the way to go. Shows craftmanship. Justification for a higher price to perform the same job someone else would do by twisting a supply line into a pigtail. Its the little details that set you apart from the next guy.


Bingo


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## Gargalaxy

Old school? Nahhh braided hose work as good as any other.....


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## dclarke

I use braided hose for service. Mostly because I only use the fluid master ones which have a 10 year warranty.


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## Plumbnman

I appreciate all the unsolicited "expert" advice on what I should use, but does anyone have an answer to the actual question that I asked?


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## plumberkc

I believe you already got your answer right off the bat. Pex supply lines are very similar to the poly lines that come with delta faucets. Many people have had them blow off and flood, myself included. Using an insert will help but as a service plumber I don't like it. Reminds me of when manufacturers use plastic drain valves in water heaters. Instead of trying to use the cheapest products you can get your hands on just raise your bids.


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## The bear

Also have had issues with pex supply lines. We had one blow off 5 years after repipe. Fortunately customer was there to shut water off. 3/8 chrome nut was on tight and required 5/8" wrench to remove. After that braided supply lines only.


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## BOBBYTUCSON

Ive never had issues installing the plastic ferule and have put many in service for 2 years now. Time will tell. although i do like the idea of inserts . But i hate the idea of reducing flow or restricting. But i also hate the idea of a flood. God im just a mixed bag of emotions


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## wyplumber

my boss put in two pex supply lines once and only once

for all i know he put them in wrong but he had pulled two out of a mobile home and put two back in 

that night one of them blew off the stop 

he did not pay a dime to repair the mobile home he did however end up having to buy her a brand new mobile home no joke 

just bring up pex supply line around him and see what happens


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## Plumbnman

We have had a third dishwasher line blow loose and it was a bad ferrule. If anyone has had a pex supply line blow loose, check the plastic ferrule. Some were distributed during the middle of 2015 that do not meet specs. If you have any questions contact me by email and we can discuss the problem.


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## smoldrn

I've been using the poly ferrules forever. The most important thing is to never put any pipe dope on them like you would a brass one, that's a guaranteed failure.


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## Workhorseplmg

Tomplumb said:


> I used to use them all the time until I had one blow apart a few years ago. Now I only use braided supply lines. I don't cut the lines on delta faucets either.


I also only use braided and do not cut delta supply lines


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## Plumbnman

smoldrn said:


> I've been using the poly ferrules forever. The most important thing is to never put any pipe dope on them like you would a brass one, that's a guaranteed failure.


Do you ever buy extras, like for the dishwaser line? The ones that come with our pex supplys are fine, it is the extras we have bought that are the problem


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Plumbnman said:


> Do you ever buy extras, like for the dishwaser line? The ones that come with our pex supplys are fine, it is the extras we have bought that are the problem


so what is your agenda, class action lawsuit? or to cover your ass on a job you did to put liability off onto someone else? just asking..


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## Plumbnman

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> so what is your agenda, class action lawsuit? or to cover your ass on a job you did to put liability off onto someone else? just asking..


My "agenda" was to gather information and spread the word of a potential problem. We have been dealing with this since October. The distributor would give us no information on when or how long these bad ferrules were distributed. Our insurance company had an engineer measure the ferrules in question and they were definitely too small. I have had four supply lines blow off, three on dishwashers. Total damages are almost $100,000. I am out $20,000 in deductibles. We relied on the insurance company to handle the subrogation and the company's insurance and lawyers would tell us nothing. We wanted to start checking the houses we had done for these bad ferrules, but did not know where to start because we had no information. We sent a letter to the regional director asking for help in getting the information we needed, and finally got a response. We now know when they were first distributed and for how long. In the time frame they gave us, we set fixtures in almost 150 houses. Now, I have to go and check each one to find and replace the bad ferrules.

When I could not get any information from the company, who now admits that there were bad ferrules, I came here to ask for information and offer a warning to others who might be in a similar situation. I got more condemnation and smartass comments than any real help.:furious: There were a few who answered with a helping attitudeand I thank you for that. Some of you guys need to quit being such a smart ass and realize that in this forum we are here to help each other. Sorry for the rant, but I just can't stand smart ass remarks, especially when you don't know the story. If i misinterpreted any responses, I am sorry.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Plumbnman said:


> My "agenda" was to gather information and spread the word of a potential problem. We have been dealing with this since October. The distributor would give us no information on when or how long these bad ferrules were distributed. Our insurance company had an engineer measure the ferrules in question and they were definitely too small. I have had four supply lines blow off, three on dishwashers. Total damages are almost $100,000. I am out $20,000 in deductibles. We relied on the insurance company to handle the subrogation and the company's insurance and lawyers would tell us nothing. We wanted to start checking the houses we had done for these bad ferrules, but did not know where to start because we had no information. We sent a letter to the regional director asking for help in getting the information we needed, and finally got a response. We now know when they were first distributed and for how long. In the time frame they gave us, we set fixtures in almost 150 houses. Now, I have to go and check each one to find and replace the bad ferrules.
> 
> When I could not get any information from the company, who now admits that there were bad ferrules, I came here to ask for information and offer a warning to others who might be in a similar situation. I got more condemnation and smartass comments than any real help.:furious: There were a few who answered with a helping attitudeand I thank you for that. Some of you guys need to quit being such a smart ass and realize that in this forum we are here to help each other. Sorry for the rant, but I just can't stand smart ass remarks, especially when you don't know the story. If i misinterpreted any responses, I am sorry.


maybe if you were up front with your request, rather than being secret squirrel about it , as your refusal to answer why in earlier posts you would have gotten better results, also anything here could be used in a lawsuit and you would drag in other people..if you think that couldnt happen, ask an attorney...why dont you sue the supplier that sold you the ferrels now that they have come clean that there is in fact a defect? the warning is appreciated..now when you say the ferrels are too small, in what way, diameter or length so they dont bit into the tubing? also just an observation, but you as a member here from 2011 and only having 19 posts also raises eye to what your really after..my response in no way constitutes any kind of attack on you nor being stated sarcastically...


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## GREENPLUM

Cheap materials end up costing alot more than you think, buy ss braided supplies or ridgid from now on.

You can pay deductibles with the money saved by installing cheap materials on those 150 houses


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## Plumbnman

I tried to find the info I needed without naming the company involved for the exact reason of avoiding any legal repercussions. The last thing I would do is get on a public forum and start bashing a company without any thing to back up my claims. We are in discussions with the supplier in getting help with the damage claims.
The ferrules are too thin, basically. They will not bite into the supply and the small end will sometimes roll out instead of bitting into the pipe. Without knowing there is a problem, you cannot tell they are too small. Compare them side by side with the correct ones and it is obvious.
We are primarily a residential new construction contractor. I read a lot on this forum and others, but don't post a lot. Most of what I read on this forum tends to be service related or in larger cities. I am in Memphis, Tn. and pex piping is the industry standard here. Our profession can be quite different in different regions of the country. 
Another reason I don't post much is it is way too easy to have things you type not be "heard" as you intend them to sound. I am guilty of reading things and "hearing" sarcasm or smartassness. These message boards are great for spreading and gathering information, but we all must learn to be more objective. I guess that is the way to put it. 
I will update this thread as I learn more. 
Thanks, and sorry for any misunderstandings.


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## JimmyMac

That stinks...good luck, hope you get it straight. All that for a part that costs pennies...


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## 760GWS

Lawsuits ARE a nasty business and being onbthe defense is really stressfull. I feel for you Plumbnman. Good luck in your defense claims. 

I personally dislike the PEX water connectors, as well. If they come integrated with a customer supplied faucet, sobeit, but I write a little disclaimer on the invoice that I don't approve of those items and no warranty is provided. (Delta!!! Talkin bout u!) And I never shorten the tubing to avoid the curly bend. I turn the stop valve or change it if needed. But yeah, I only like SS braided supply lines. And even those fail eventually, so customers need to be proactive. I wonder if PEX water connectors even show any signs of fatigue before actual failure?


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## BOBBYTUCSON

ive been installing them for a while, and have noticed different sizes and shapes to the pex ferules. ill try to post pics


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## ShtRnsdownhill

760GWS said:


> Lawsuits ARE a nasty business and being onbthe defense is really stressfull. I feel for you Plumbnman. Good luck in your defense claims.
> 
> I personally dislike the PEX water connectors, as well. If they come integrated with a customer supplied faucet, sobeit, but I write a little disclaimer on the invoice that I don't approve of those items and no warranty is provided. (Delta!!! Talkin bout u!) And I never shorten the tubing to avoid the curly bend. I turn the stop valve or change it if needed. But yeah, I only like SS braided supply lines. And even those fail eventually, so customers need to be proactive. I wonder if PEX water connectors even show any signs of fatigue before actual failure?


thats why you cant go wrong with solid supplies that last for almost ever with no issues..some here complain about compression stops looking unprofessional, then install flexible supply lines to their sweat on stop???? again solid supplies are even cheaper than the flexible ones and if you know what your doing dont really take for than a few minutes more to install..so it comes down to whats easier..not whats better...who here still installs copper tubing for dish washers that dont come with integral water supplies on the machine already? or do you again use the easier flexible ss lines?


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## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> thats why you cant go wrong with solid supplies that last for almost ever with no issues..some here complain about compression stops looking unprofessional, then install flexible supply lines to their sweat on stop???? again solid supplies are even cheaper than the flexible ones and if you know what your doing dont really take for than a few minutes more to install..so it comes down to whats easier..not whats better...who here still installs copper tubing for dish washers that dont come with integral water supplies on the machine already? or do you again use the easier flexible ss lines?


Hey, I was wondering the same thing about appliances. When you've got two dishwashers, two ice makers, and one fridge to install in the same kitchen, the flex ss lines make it so much easier. It might not be too much trouble to install the copper tubing, but if you ever have to pull it out and trying to get it all go back in a second time.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

for ice makers the thinner copper tubing coils up behind the fridge and can be pulled out and in many times with no issue, the dish washers have the water connection up front, so you disconnect the water first then pull it out..and what ever appliance comes with lines that are part of them get installed with those lines, and the manufacture is responsible for all that except your connection point..hey plumbers have been hooking all this stuff up for decades before pex or flexible lines and has lasted for as long without many issues..all this new stuff is just for ease of use..not because its better..that goes for 90% of it..


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## Qplumb

threaderman said:


> If I knew how,I would set up a poll on this forum with the various code councils to see where the forum sits as far as which members are in which code areas.In Oklahoma we work under the International code council.And I know most of us have our own state and local addendums ,which are many,but I was just curious about the big ones.


I fix more leaks on copper lines to fridge than any other leaks. The copper kinks when homeowner pulls it out and as soon as they go to push it back it starts dripping or spraying. I only use the brass craft polymer braided supply lines on fridges, never ever had to repair a leak on those. I like the polymer braided supply lines better because they are very hard to kink, the stainless steel can kink and block flow.


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## Plumbnman

BOBBYTUCSON said:


> ive been installing them for a while, and have noticed different sizes and shapes to the pex ferules. ill try to post pics


The ones that come on the supply lines seem to be ok. It was the ones we bought as extras and for dishwasher lines.


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## Plumbnman

*update*

The company has admitted the problem and is working on an agreement with us to inspect all the houses we did during the time frame they gave us. :thumbup:

Another plumber here in town has had the same problem and has changed to braided supplies. I am pricing the options of braided SS connectors or going back to hard pipe supplies. The braided ones are half the price of the hard chrome ones, at least for lavatory supplies. Anyone seen non chrome hard lav supplies? The pex supplies are still $1.43 cheaper. The braided supplies do have easier connections. They are perceived to be better by the general public and can be installed by anyone. It may mot sound like much, but we touch almost 400 houses a year, that is a lot of supplies.


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## ShtRnsdownhill

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Brasscra...8-OD-1-piece-w-insert-Chrome-Plated-4693000-p

here is a 20 inch chrome riser for under $3.00 if you buy 50 or more..how cheap are you getting braided supplies for?
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Brasscra...3-8-OD-1-piece-w-insert-Rough-Brass-4688000-p
and 12 inch copper for about $2.15 each..


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## Snowyman800

ShtRnsdownhill said:


> http://www.supplyhouse.com/Brasscra...8-OD-1-piece-w-insert-Chrome-Plated-4693000-p
> 
> here is a 20 inch chrome riser for under $3.00 if you buy 50 or more..how cheap are you getting braided supplies for?
> http://www.supplyhouse.com/Brasscra...3-8-OD-1-piece-w-insert-Rough-Brass-4688000-p
> and 12 inch copper for about $2.15 each..


Oh, man. Chrome supplies here I come!! I've gotta make that bender pay for itself somehow!


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## ShtRnsdownhill

Snowyman800 said:


> Oh, man. Chrome supplies here I come!! I've gotta make that bender pay for itself somehow!


I ordered a bunch of stuff from supplyhouse.com and saw they hit me with state tax..I googled where they are located..geez almost around the corner from me..LOL..about a 20 minute drive...now I know how I got next day delivery from ups from them...everything I got from them looks good quality, same as my local( even closer) supply houses in town( 5 minute drive)LOL...


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## BOBBYTUCSON

Plumbnman said:


> The ones that come on the supply lines seem to be ok. It was the ones we bought as extras and for dishwasher lines.


this is what im worried about, i bought a bunch of extra ferrules for zurn pex supply lines


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## Eddy k

The only pex supply tube on my truck is used as a siphon tube.


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## canuck92

Yup, was told by my journeyman a little while back to cut the delta poly lines and use the ferral, sure enough it blew off, atleast it was an unfinished basement. However another one blew off on a fridge line at another job. Poly speedies are garbage. Braided all day long and copper to hook up fridges.


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## sparky

plumber11928 said:


> Old school is the way to go. Shows craftmanship. Justification for a higher price to perform the same job someone else would do by twisting a supply line into a pigtail. Its the little details that set you apart from the next guy.


Customers don't give a crap about "craftsmanship" they just want it done as cheap as possible and still ***** about the price,only chrome supply's on commercial jobs,easte of time and money in residential :yes:


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## jnohs

Wow I guess my turn is up next. I order the pex supply lines by the hundreds. Literally buy 200 at a time and put in about 600 a year. I use them solely for quality. Braided lines were not code for years and years the chrome pipe seemed to be fickle and leaky. Albeit the best once installed 100% correctly. But I have found for me that the ease of installation and the fact that if has not given me a problem was great. So yah ****t? Guess my number will be up soon to. But for no I still have great faith in them.


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## rwh

jnohs said:


> Wow I guess my turn is up next. I order the pex supply lines by the hundreds. Literally buy 200 at a time and put in about 600 a year. I use them solely for quality. Braided lines were not code for years and years the chrome pipe seemed to be fickle and leaky. Albeit the best once installed 100% correctly. But I have found for me that the ease of installation and the fact that if has not given me a problem was great. So yah ****t? Guess my number will be up soon to. But for no I still have great faith in them.


Solely for quality?


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## skoronesa

My big boss frowns at the fact we even have braided supply lines. He is an old timer and prefers chrome to anything else. The only time our guys use the poly lines are when they come preattached. Most of us use the braided s.s. lines. We get stock from wolverine brass, have been for years, it's quality stuff. I don't use flex lines from any one else. I do have to complain however that the last batch of chrome toilet supplies, the chrome would wrinkle when you bent it!?!?! like wtf.

I prefer the chrome but not if there is a chance of the toilet moving. I have seen too many leaking compression joints from the floors in these old houses. For ice makers or dishwashers we use braided lines. If we are running an icemaker line a long way we will do it in copper and then use a coupling to switch to flex behind the appliance so it can be moved in and out by a customer without us worrying.

We have a lot of those customers who have spare time and money that don't know how to use basic tools but want to try fixing something themselves because of boredom I guess. Honestly, I think we have become such a fixture in peoples lives that they know we will come and save them no worries. And we do, we are like distant family to many of our customers.


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## Tommy plumber

I've used pex supply lines for lav faucets with no problems. Are you guys using the poly ferrules or brass ferrules? {supposed to use plastic on plastic}.

But now I'm thinking about this more. Inferior parts can come back to bite us.


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## GAN

Yep always plastic ferrules on poly tube, have had a couple of failures mostly installer errors.

Always tighten the compression nut all the way down when using poly.


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## Plumbnman

We received some bad ferrules from Jones Stephens. They were too thin and would not grip the pex supply properly. You really couldn't notice it untill you held it next to one that met specs. I had 5 houses flood, one was a lav supply upstairs and the rest were dishwashers. The only problem we have had at all is with the ferrules and we set fixtures in over 400 houses a year. Pex supplies are not an inferior product, IMHO.


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