# Recycled lead with antimony for lead and oakum?



## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Is there any reason that one couldn’t melt down the lead from old car batteries or shot bullets and use it cast iron? I don’t do much lead and oakum but I was thinking it would be a good way to salvage some lead.

This seems like a killertoiletspider or bill par kinda question.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Sure you can.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I always use straight lead. Depending on the % of antimony, the melting point could be twice as high for the alloy. I think antimony melts around 1200 degrees. 

There is no cheap way to refine lead that contains antimony. 

I don't think it would be a good idea.

Congrats on the recycling attempt though
:thumbsup:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

I melted down some old 9mm wad cutters. It works fine.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

So it will just take longer to melt the pot because the antimony will raise the melting point of the alloy? That doesn't seem like a big issue. I'd lose a few a buck more in propane but I'd save $10 in lead.....no?


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

I wonder if there would be an adverse effect on the CI, pouring something in there twice as hot?

It would be a good question for KTS. He left.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

I think it has more to do with the workability of the lead. Not sure on it tho... just putting out there as that's what I'd understood (meaning I heard it once).

Btw, DOES antimony in the mix raise the melting temp of the alloy? Tin and lead both melt at hotter temps than 50/50 does.


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> So it will just take longer to melt the pot because the antimony will raise the melting point of the alloy? That doesn't seem like a big issue. I'd lose a few a buck more in propane but I'd save $10 in lead.....no?


 I have some lead wad cutters left if you want me to go melt a few and see how long it takes I will.....its been 10 years since I melted the ones down i was talking about,but I didn't melt them all down. I have about 200 or so left. ?????


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

By the way, what does the code say the joints are to be filled with?



I know I'm splitting hairs but. I'm just sayin'


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

It doesn't say what purity the lead has to be though:

*705.5 Cast iron.* Joints between cast-iron pipe or fittings shall comply with Sections 705.5.1 through 705.5.3. *


705.5.1 Caulked joints.* Joints for hub and spigot pipe shall be firmly packed with oakum or hemp. Molten lead shall be poured in one operation to a depth of not less than 1 inch (25 mm). The lead shall not recede more than 0.125 inch (3.2 mm) below the rim of the hub and shall be caulked tight. Paint, varnish or other coatings shall not be permitted on the jointing material until after the joint has been tested and approved. Lead shall be run in one pouring and shall be caulked tight. Acid-resistant rope and acidproof cement shall be permitted.*705.5.2 Compression gasket joints.* Compression gaskets for hub and spigot pipe and fittings shall conform to ASTM C 564 and shall be tested to ASTM C 1563. Gaskets shall be compressed when the pipe is fully inserted.*705.5.3 Mechanical joint coupling.* Mechanical joint couplings for hubless pipe and fittings shall comply with CISPI 310, ASTM C 1277 or ASTM C 1540. The elastomeric sealing sleeve shall conform to ASTM C 564 or CSA B602 and shall be provided with a center stop. Mechanical joint couplings shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions. 


Matt said:


> By the way, what does the code say the joints are to be filled with?
> 
> 
> 
> I know I'm splitting hairs but. I'm just sayin'


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

Matt said:


> By the way, what does the code say the joints are to be filled with?
> 
> 
> 
> I know I'm splitting hairs but. I'm just sayin'


Checking it out I see my copy of the plumbing code is outdated :whistling2:
but basically it says it has to comform to CSA B70-06 which is lead. Just lead. Not solder (definitely not solder), just lead. Use lead.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

What's the cut off point in the purity of that lead. 9%? 99%? 99.9% 99.999999999999999999999%???? :whistling2:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Says "*lead *acid battery" on the side of this here battery I'm about to melt down for my next CI flange replacement :whistling2:


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## Redwood (Sep 8, 2008)

I still have a bunch of lead weights from the tire shop to melt down...
I've used a bunch already...

Damn I use more of it casting fishing weights than I do for plumbing...:laughing:


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> What's the cut off point in the purity of that lead. 9%? 99%? 99.9% 99.999999999999999999999%???? :whistling2:


 Your plumbing wth california lead......its low lead lead:laughing:


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

No lead!


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

Miguel said:


> No lead!


 Illegal.


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

RealLivePlumber said:


> Illegal.


Besides, in the state of California it's known to contain products which may cause cancer or birth defects. :blink:


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## breid1903 (Feb 8, 2009)

*miggy*

i don't use that. is it plastic lead? is it legal in the north? breid................:rockon:


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## Miguel (Aug 10, 2009)

I dunno. Mebbe about as legal as PC-4 is?
Oatey makes it.


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## grandpa (Jul 13, 2008)

My guess is that algore has a law about reprocessing batteries in your back yard!


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Couple more questions:

Is there any harm in overheating lead? Will it start to oxidize as a curtain temperature? The reason I ask is because I just bought a huge(52") Fresnel lens to melt down the lead with sunlight (it's a solar geek thing:nerd. I was thinking I'd just leave the lens setup to melt it all down but I was worried about it over heating while I'm not there.

Are there any chemicals in lead-acid batteries other than sulfuric acid? I'm wondering what to do with the battery electrolyte. If it's just sufuric acid then it's going down the drain. If not, then I'm going to have to figure out what would be the environmentally correct thing to do....

Why does lead in caulked joints have to be pure lead and not a mixture of pb/sn? Wouldn't the tin make it easier to work? Just wondering as I don't know that much about lead and oakum....


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## TheMaster (Jun 12, 2009)

Protech said:


> Couple more questions:
> 
> Is there any harm in overheating lead? Will it start to oxidize as a curtain temperature? The reason I ask is because I just bought a huge(52") Fresnel lens to melt down the lead with sunlight (it's a solar geek thing:nerd. I was thinking I'd just leave the lens setup to melt it all down but I was worried about it over heating while I'm not there.
> 
> ...


Becareful wiff them old batteries,as a kid my uncle had a stack of them beside his garage in Jackson,Ms and I was playing around with the batteries and acid spilled all over my legs....I rememeber screaming and them dragging me to the bathtub. No real burns but a light skin peel. I'm lucky people where around. I was about 4 or 5yrs old


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Ever get "clobber" drain cleaner on you? Same stuff.


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## PLUMBER_BILL (Oct 23, 2009)

Protech said:


> Is there any reason that one couldn’t melt down the lead from old car batteries or shot bullets and use it cast iron? I don’t do much lead and oakum but I was thinking it would be a good way to salvage some lead.
> 
> This seems like a killertoiletspider or bill par kinda question.


I'll tell a story. Here in Allentown we had an exide battery plant. I had a customer that worked on the Reading RR. I was doing some cast iron bell & spickot work for this guy he supplied the lead ... which he swiped form the RR via the battery plant. The lead was HARD caulk it tight enought to get the joints tight and you cracked the hub. We threw the **** out and got virgin lead. This same guy built a house with a bad plumb on the level. Kitchen walls were out 7/8" in 8 foot. I think he swiped the level from the RR too.


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## jc60618 (Jan 24, 2010)

This is unrelated to the the subject but I know of some morons who were dumping rolls of solder into the lead pot just to be funny.:no:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I did a little job cast iron at a nuke last week. The guys in the shop found 11 25 pound bricks of lead for me to take home. It was used for shielding, but now they can't use it, because it's so old, it's not in their inventory system.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

The only thing I would be using it for would be for replacing toilet flanges. Seems like it would work ok as I put wax over the lead when I do those. More for mechanical strength. I also bolt the flange down with 2" tap-cons.

It should work for that right?

addition: The alternative is using those pvc flanges with the neoprene gasket inside the pipe. Even if it's hard lead on a brass flange, I think it's better than the plastic option no?



PLUMBER_BILL said:


> I'll tell a story. Here in Allentown we had an exide battery plant. I had a customer that worked on the Reading RR. I was doing some cast iron bell & spickot work for this guy he supplied the lead ... which he swiped form the RR via the battery plant. The lead was HARD caulk it tight enought to get the joints tight and you cracked the hub. We threw the **** out and got virgin lead. This same guy built a house with a bad plumb on the level. Kitchen walls were out 7/8" in 8 foot. I think he swiped the level from the RR too.


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

It's getto, but it would work.


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## 1703 (Jul 21, 2009)

If your Fresnel doesn't work out, here's one to try:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...fec16c5&itemid=230424887844&ff4=263602_263622


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

Protech said:


> The only thing I would be using it for would be for replacing toilet flanges. Seems like it would work ok as I put wax over the lead when I do those. More for mechanical strength. I also bolt the flange down with 2" tap-cons.
> 
> It should work for that right?
> 
> addition: The alternative is using those pvc flanges with the neoprene gasket inside the pipe. Even if it's hard lead on a brass flange, I think it's better than the plastic option no?


Sioux Chief makes those plastic CI repair flanges with a stainless steel ring. They work really well IF you can support the ring to the floor with atleast 4 screws that grab. I repair 4" cracked CI flanges with them often and never a problem.


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