# Why experience is needed to clean drains! Long post.



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I’m constantly saying how important it is to have experience before cleaning on your own. Thankfully I had back up with me, but with tools I don’t carry, still a one man issue. Drain cleaning is not only dangerous to your customer’s property, you’re equipment and your physical well being. Here is another perfect example of what can happen. 

Today was a bad day. I was riding with my Master and had loaded my machines on the truck.

First job went well, the second one, not so much. Got a text from one of my landlords yesterday for a main line at one of his duplex rentals. I’ve cabled this line probably a half dozen times over the years, always putting the full 100’ because sometimes it would open around 80’. Good size tree in the front yard usually just tree roots in the clay tile and a few minor misalignment. No special concerns or conditions. If the line goes straight from the clean out to the city, my guess would be 70-80’, plus any turn or drop.

I get there and go in to test it out and make sure it is the main and not just a kitchen/laundry/floor drain line. Ran everything, no back up. Basement floor is dry and littered with tp from previous back ups. It’s been probably three years since the last time I cabled it so I decided to run it anyway. 

Hit some roots, some separations, but couldn’t get past 80-90’ so I start to pull my cable back to see if I have to clean my cutter. Felt normal for about 10’ or so. Then it bound up, hard! The old forward and reverse trick didn’t work. So I brought it closer and closer to the breaking point. SNAP! Cable failed in the drum! I haven’t had that happen to me in over 8 years. So after a few colorful words I go upstairs to tell the tenant that I have to go back to the shop to get a different machine and will be back in about 45 minutes to an hour.

Go out to the truck, put the ramp up and close the back. Get into the truck and tell my Master we have to go back to the shop to get the camera from my truck. 

My cable is stuck in the line in a very strange way. I’ve never seen this before in 12 or so years, or my Master in 35 years.

I’ve been stuck many times. Most of the time I can get my cable out by working the machine, but sometimes you grab a 6” root ball and just can’t knock it off when coming back into the 4”. I’ve used a car jack or a come along in those situations. I was starting to think I was going to have to come back tomorrow after trying to work the cable while watching with my camera in the line. (I don’t recommend this, and only do it when absolutely necessary!) That didn’t work.

In a last ditch effort I pulled as hard as I could and my Master grabbed the cable in front of me and pulled as hard as he could and it finally released and shot back past my camera lense, was probably the fifth try. My camera and cable started coming back at the same time by just pulling the cable. Great! That means they’re wound around each other from when the tension of the cable released when we got it unstuck. F)$%! I got stuck three more times including getting both the cutter and camera head out of the clean out. Wish I got picture of that, but it wasn’t my top priority at the moment. I just reached elbow deep and after a few minutes of wiggling and got it out.

Once we got the camera rod and cable untwisted I sent the, thankfully undamaged, camera back down the line to find out what the F caused this.

Come to find out this line actually leads directly into a city manhole. I’ve unknowingly cabled into them before as well as septic tanks, and have had a much easier time getting them out then today. Didn’t get a picture from above either, but here’s the view from the inside.

On a side note: there was a 2’ pvc repair out in the yard. WTF? Dig down and not put in a clean out?!?! My landlord said he’s never had a dig there, so it was before his time.

After that I get a call from a college housing management company for a floor drain. I let him know my main line machine is down and ask the usual questions. So we stop by. It was the main. Belly just outside the house. Three years ago We replaced the underground in the house, so it’s been a known issue. Tried the blow bag, not happy. Pushed my camera down the line, broke the soft blockage up and punched holes in all the root balls. Ran two washer loads. Didn’t back up, but not good enough for me.

Ordering a new cable tonight. Only have one job tomorrow, so I’m going to rip my machine apart and try to get the massive kinks out best I can. I have couplings, just no welder. Been looking for a good used one for quite some time.

Apparently I’m not smart enough to post pictures between paragraphs.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

I see you've been using the 6200. Good thing you were able to use the camera and give you an idea how to tackle the problem.

I really need to build a grabber I designed for a stuck cable and be able to pull it out yourself.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Stretching a stuck cable is very dangerous. Too much and it can snap and cause major injuries. Everytime I’ve had to force a cable back I cringe.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

just another reason I dont touch mains and at most just kitchen or bathroom sink lines...days like that suck, but I have to look at it this way..I still can walk back to the truck with all my body parts intact..tomorrows another day to fight that battle..


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

3 1/2 hours for a half hour job, plus a F’ed up cable.


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

80% of my main's I camera first. Most of the time i can usually poke through whatever is causing the clog and get the water to drain so I can see what im dealing with. At the very least I can get an appropriate distance to the clog and decided which machine to use.

Ive seen a truck tug on a cable and it snapped out and dented the hood and broke the windshield. YIKES


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Camera I charge extra for. Today I thought about using the camera on every job and charging for it, but I’d probably loose 90% of my main line jobs.

I do offer a video at a discount with extended warranty, most customers don’t bite unless they’ve had often backups and are sick of it.

I might have an issue once out a thousand or two mains. 

This year was two. This one and when my 300’s clutch failed. When I went back with the 6200, it did get stuck, but the only damage was a widened cutter.

I’ve tried to video first just to hit a wall I can’t get past. I don’t like slamming my camera head into clay separations.


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

My phone conversation goes;

Customer: I think my mainlines backed up again.
Me: How often is it being snaked? Have you ever had it inspected via sewer camera?
Customer: About once a year and no; we haven't had it inspected
Me: Well I would highly recommend having int inspected.. Clearly somethings going on with the line or its not being cleaned properly. At the very least you will have a complete picture of whats actually going on. 

I dont have too many people pass up the camera, maybe im just lucky


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## ECH (Jul 27, 2018)

Drain work with a machine is something I have not really gotten to do much of. To tell you the truth it is a bit intimidating. I have heard so many stories of pipes breaking, or cables coming up through toilets, that putting something in the pipe with that much torque and force makes me nervous.

Most of the guys that I have watched doing it, tell me not to use the autofeed function, and that you have to "feel" what the cable is hitting. I have only run the machine once, and it was a small cable Rigid. I got it cleared, "white mice" they told me


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## Standard Drain (Feb 17, 2016)

Ive had several jobs where a utility company cross-bored through the sewer line causing the line to collapse. One of them was a gas line.


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## gear junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

Huge reason why I stopped plumbing and moved to drain cleaning. Plumbing quality is based off the lowest bidder making parts and drain cleaning is skill based. 

Don't get me wrong...there's a lot of skill in plumbing. But you can be the best plumber and your installation is only as good as the fixture you installed. A drain cleaner can often overcome equipment issue...perfect example....been doing a long time and still haven't mastered dropping down a cross wye in a back to back lav.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

Drain cleaning is a form of art. Much like flat work and drywall.

Every cleaner is different. Back when I worked for a three truck company I would trade jobs with another guy. He’d call me, I’d call him... “I can’t get this one. I’ll take your next one if you come and get this one.” Then we’d harass each other. “I got that in five minutes! You [email protected]#sy!”


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## sethro1981 (Oct 31, 2016)

i have alot of trouble with the back to back wye ive thought about making a tool to bend the cable and navigate with


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

There is a lot of art in construction. 
I've driven a few nails in my time and never really thought about what goes under the hood other than how it would effect my work. Then, a friend who was helping me on my addition opened my eyes to the ballet involved in efficient framing, specifically rolling joists. Every motion is geared to placing and properly securing lumber with the least amount of effort. The goal is not to save energy, but to increase production, without sacrificing quality. It was a real treat and it, as well as the appreciation of the craftsmanship of my friend, has stuck with me for over 35 years.


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## Toli (Nov 7, 2015)

Drain cleaning can make you look like a genius,idiot or anything in between. 

**** happens. Sometimes you’re the bug, sometimes you’re the windshield.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OpenSights said:


> 3 1/2 hours for a half hour job, plus a F’ed up cable.


















Maybe so Sights, but you're a better man for it. Keep on trucking!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Standard Drain said:


> 80% of my main's I camera first. Most of the time i can usually poke through whatever is causing the clog and get the water to drain so I can see what im dealing with. At the very least I can get an appropriate distance to the clog and decided which machine to use.
> 
> Ive seen a truck tug on a cable and it snapped out and dented the hood and broke the windshield. YIKES




















Spoken like a true professional. 


Choosing the correct machine, auger head and even cable are essential.


Perhaps I should add a camera to my arsenal after seeing how *REAL* drain cleaners do it, not intermediates like me......LOL


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## V.A Hydro-ooter (Oct 14, 2018)

That's what I always tell homeowners who tell me the drain cleaning looked easy to do. Once you've done something thousands of times you'll usually make it look effortless. I always bring up Steph Curry. He makes shooting hoops look like child's play but not every player on the court can match him. That's what comes with experience and having the "touch."


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I can’t say I’m the biggest bad azz drain cleaner out there, but I’ve been around the the blockage a time or two.

My post is simply to give those in the plumbing trade an example of what can really go wrong in a split second when you dive into the cleaning business.

You need experience to even attempt this!

I’m a drain cleaner. My Master is a plumber. The way I break it down for customers it’s like the difference between an auto mechanic and an auto body guy. That’s when the light bulb comes on....


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

We had a guy get his wrist sprained when the 1/2" wrapped up around his arm.


The only cable I have so far totally broken off in a drain was when I was new(6ish months) and the pool guys had plumbed the pool drain into the main to the septic pointing towards the house. My cable went up the pool drain and caught on something real good. I ran the camera after and could barely see the piece of cable poking out of the leg from the wye into the main.


Luckily I have General snakes and their cables are really tough, other than that one time I haven't had the inner core break, only the outer. I have had one factory welded connector break off though a couple months ago.


I had a house last winter where there was a double wye on the horizontal. I was running a "rootripper" head. the crotch of the head grabbed the corner of the opposing leg and when it finally let go the cable unwound so fast the head smacked the inside of the fitting hard enough to break a huge chunk out emptying about 20 gallons of sewage into the ceiling/wall of this guys finished basement. Then I ran about 10 gallons down the sink as I camerad and finally saw the hole.


That's wye we have insurance


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

Drain cleaning is an art form. I love arriving to a job where a guy rented a machine and couldnt get it unstopped. Hell half the time they dont even run the cable in the correct direction. I have had many guys ask me how do you know its stopped up in the yard and I'm staring at a cleanout full of water. I'm like Seriously?


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I think for me it’s because every job is different. Every line has it’s own unique quirk.

I’ve been told new construction is the best way to learn code, which I don’t doubt, I just wouldn’t enjoy it. I need new challenge every day. However, I believe knowing the code is just as important to a good cleaner as a good plumber.

A little over a year ago one of my PMC’s bought an 11 unit apartment building. They wanted every unit remodeled. Wasn’t hard, other than the commercial heater, but 11 kitchen sinks, 11 kitchen faucets, 11 shower valves, 11 stools, 11 shower valves...... same thing all day long every day..... might as well work on an assembly line!


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

OpenSights said:


> I think for me it’s because every job is different. Every line has it’s own unique quirk.
> 
> I’ve been told new construction is the best way to learn code, which I don’t doubt, I just wouldn’t enjoy it. I need new challenge every day. However, I believe knowing the code is just as important to a good cleaner as a good plumber.
> 
> A little over a year ago one of my PMC’s bought an 11 unit apartment building. They wanted every unit remodeled. Wasn’t hard, other than the commercial heater, but 11 kitchen sinks, 11 kitchen faucets, 11 shower valves, 11 stools, 11 shower valves...... same thing all day long every day..... might as well work on an assembly line!


My dad did new construction for several years and he has a vast knowledge that i dont have. It does help but i wouldnt enjoy doing new construction. I prefer the get in get out mentality of repair work. Do something and collect. The one thing i like about doing the same things over and over again is you end up being really good at that specific task. You start to get a sense of pride at how fast you can get the job done.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OpenSights said:


> I think for me it’s because every job is different. Every line has it’s own unique quirk.
> 
> I’ve been told new construction is the best way to learn code, which I don’t doubt, I just wouldn’t enjoy it. I need new challenge every day. However, I believe knowing the code is just as important to a good cleaner as a good plumber.
> 
> A little over a year ago one of my PMC’s bought an 11 unit apartment building. They wanted every unit remodeled. Wasn’t hard, other than the commercial heater, but 11 kitchen sinks, 11 kitchen faucets, 11 shower valves, 11 stools, 11 shower valves...... same thing all day long every day..... might as well work on an assembly line!
























I loved new construction. I did it for {5} years straight when I first started in this trade. That was about {20} years ago. Since then, it's been mainly service w/ re-models sprinkled in here and there.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Spacepirate said:


> My dad did new construction for several years and he has a vast knowledge that i dont have. It does help but i wouldnt enjoy doing new construction. I prefer the get in get out mentality of repair work. Do something and collect. The one thing i like about doing the same things over and over again is you end up being really good at that specific task. You start to get a sense of pride at how fast you can get the job done.





I was at a house for 6 hours straight last week changing a sewage pump, rebuilding a toilet,replacing a valve, removing a water softener, and a couple other small things. I wanted to freak I felt like a rat in a cage!


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## Spacepirate (Jan 16, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> I was at a house for 6 hours straight last week changing a sewage pump, rebuilding a toilet,replacing a valve, removing a water softener, and a couple other small things. I wanted to freak I felt like a rat in a cage!


I know what that feels like. I hate when people save up a lot of stuff.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

LOL...now you complain when you have too much work todo in 1 house..become traveling salesmen selling vacuums door to door if you arent able to work a whole day in 1 house or building...:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Spacepirate said:


> I know what that feels like. I hate when people save up a lot of stuff.



She was living mainly in an apartment in the city when teaching at an inner city school 9 months of the year. The basement bathroom had been unused for a while but now that she's retired she is having guests.




I honestly prefer they save stuff up for one trip because often parts need to be ordered and you have to come back anyway. I'd rather they tell me all the things which might be issues right off the bat so I can make sure I know what parts I need in a couple months when they call back.




That said 6 hours in one house is a long span for me. Especially when it's one of those people who have to talk to you everytime you go up and down the stairs and they sit there so they can ask how things are going. She was a cool lady but when I am busy working trying to remember what I need to grab from the van this trip and I am sweating and out of breath from carrying heavy stuff up and down and up and down.....yeah, 6hrs in one house is a lot. Today I had 5 calls. That is a productive day which doesn't drive me crazy. Some people would go insane trying to remember and order stuff for that many calls. 5 is an average day, sometimes its 7 or 8.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

skoronesa said:


> 5 is an average day, sometimes its 7 or 8.


WoW money rolling in big time!


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> WoW money rolling in big time!


My record is like 9 or 10 in an 8hr day. Which is great because those customers who were only like 20/30mins still paid the hour minimum. Yesterday I worked 11 hours. Went to a broken water line after lunch. The excavator hit a pumped effluent line when we were trying to find the water line. Both were 2" Ips poly coil plastic. Talk about a pain to work with.


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## Tango (Jan 13, 2018)

You must have customers literally only a few streets in between. Here usually 30 minutes drive in between.


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## PathMaker (May 10, 2013)

http://www.spartantool.com/products/8-bag-of-parts-13-32-3-8#gallery

Drop heads are great for getting down the cross. Just dont spin the cable when it's on the way to the fitting. Wait for resistance, push in, then spin. 

Falls everytime!


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

Tango said:


> You must have customers literally only a few streets in between. Here usually 30 minutes drive in between.





It depends. Our service area is roughly an hour and a half in diameter. At times when there are emergencies I will easily spend most of my day driving. On average I drive about 2-3hours a day. About 1300miles a month this past year. Last year was about 2000 miles a month. Usually dispatch tries to plan several customers in the same town on the same day but inevitably there will be at least one or two outliers.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

One day a year one of my college rental companies has me run a bunch of mains and other problem lines. This last turnover, I did 11 lines and was done by 2. Makes one nice payday, but very tiring! All the houses are within 3 miles of each other.


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> One day a year one of my college rental companies has me run a bunch of mains and other problem lines. This last turnover, I did 11 lines and was done by 2. Makes one nice payday, but very tiring! All the houses are within 3 miles of each other.





I spent 7 days snaking every sink, floor, and shower drain in 3 girls dorms with 3 floors each, 2 bathrooms on each floor, minimum 3 showers, 3 sinks, and 2 floor drains in each bathroom. SOOOO many aquarium stones in every sink, all different colors. I'd be working in there and the girls would just walk in and I would have to leave and wait. And of course more would walk in while I was waiting.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I’ve maintained a sorority before, just while the girls were gone.

One time I was in a college girl house cabling a lav drain. Girl walks in in her bathrobe and turns on the shower. I say “I have a pretty busy, I should done in about five minutes.”

She says “I have class in 20 minutes. Really, I don’t mind.” And proceeds to disrobe!

I left the bathroom, and made sure I was seen leaving the bathroom by her roommates. That was years ago. 

After the Larry Nasser case, no way in heck will I ever let a situation go that far again!


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## skoronesa (Oct 27, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> I’ve maintained a sorority before, just while the girls were gone.
> 
> One time I was in a college girl house cabling a lav drain. Girl walks in in her bathrobe and turns on the shower. I say “I have a pretty busy, I should done in about five minutes.”
> 
> ...



I've been asked to maintain a sorority on several occasions but I had to decline as I am married.


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## ShtRnsdownhill (Jan 13, 2016)

OpenSights said:


> I’ve maintained a sorority before, just while the girls were gone.
> 
> One time I was in a college girl house cabling a lav drain. Girl walks in in her bathrobe and turns on the shower. I say “I have a pretty busy, I should done in about five minutes.”
> 
> ...





hell I would have offered to scrub her back....:devil3::devil3::devil3:


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