# CVPC problems



## dsmith

*CPVC problems*

I am fixing several CPVC pipe breakages in a condo complex in Florida that was built 11 to 12 years ago. The CPVC is brittle and with the slightess movement it will break. Talked to the manufacture Charlotte Piping and showed them the CPVC. T hey say that there is no problem with the CPVC. I believe we have a major manufacturing defeat. Any help would be appreciated on what the condo association should do next.


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## ILPlumber

Re-pipe

There is nothing wrong with your CPVC. The manufacturer knows it's crap. All of it:yes:

But hey, it's cheap....


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## TheMaster

Sounds like perfectly good cpvc to me......brittle and crappy just like its suppose to be.


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## Optimus Primer

I'm surpised in Florida it lasted that long.


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## RealLivePlumber

The condo association should gather up several thousand dollars, and call a plumber.


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## Bill

Go with copper:thumbsup:


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## stillaround

dsmith said:


> I am fixing several CPVC pipe breakages in a condo complex in Florida that was built 11 to 12 years ago. The CPVC is brittle and with the slightess movement it will break. Talked to the manufacture Charlotte Piping and showed them the CPVC. T hey say that there is no problem with the CPVC. I believe we have a major manufacturing defeat. Any help would be appreciated on what the condo association should do next.


 11 or 12 years...in Florida errors and omissions are 12 years and the association could go after the original contractor still..if under 12 years.


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## ILPlumber

The plot thickens. 

I hope one of you guys didn't do the job originally.:laughing:


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## GREENPLUM

stillaround said:


> 11 or 12 years...in Florida errors and omissions are 12 years and the association could go after the original contractor still..if under 12 years.


 
that will never happen, the condo association will hafta pony up and pay the plumber. 

it might work IF the system has NEVER been altered or worked on or looked at with a dirty look


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## Plasticman

Hey hey now. Wait a second.


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## Bill

Plasticman said:


> Hey hey now. Wait a second.


Plasticman
cpvc or the highway:blink:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

Hey, if it does fail, then bring it on. There are more houses in this area plumbed with that chit, then any other material. Service is great. I know that if it is in direct contact with UV rays of any type, it is like Kryptonite to superman.


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## Tommy plumber

:laughing:


dsmith said:


> I am fixing several CPVC pipe breakages in a condo complex in Florida that was built 11 to 12 years ago. The CPVC is brittle and with the slightess movement it will break. Talked to the manufacture Charlotte Piping and showed them the CPVC. T hey say that there is no problem with the CPVC. I believe we have a major manufacturing defeat. Any help would be appreciated on what the condo association should do next.


 The original contractors did you a favor, think of all the work they gave you! :thumbup: Every night when I say my prayers at bedtime, I thank God for PolyButylene with plastic fittings, "glass lined" W/H's that rust in less than 10 yrs. and hard water!:laughing:


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## Protech

:clap::notworthy:



Matt said:


> Re-pipe
> 
> There is nothing wrong with your CPVC. The manufacturer knows it's crap. All of it:yes:
> 
> But hey, it's cheap....


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## Protech

They are already dropping like flies around here. I'm loving it because I seem to be the only guy in town that can locate a cpvc slab leak. It's getting to the point were the competing leak location companies are sending cpvc calls my way because they can't find the leaks. :thumbup:

There are still a hoard of idiots in my area trying to sell cpvc repipes and that's all they know how to do. I've been snapping pictures of all the cpvc failures I've ran across over the last 3 years and put together a nice little sales brochure for repipes with them. 

Like shooting fish in a barrel baby.



ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Hey, if it does fail, then bring it on. There are more houses in this area plumbed with that chit, then any other material. Service is great. I know that if it is in direct contact with UV rays of any type, it is like Kryptonite to superman.


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## kentdmo

pex is the only way to go


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## RealLivePlumber

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> Hey, if it does fail, then bring it on. There are more houses in this area plumbed with that chit, then any other material. Service is great. I know that if it is in direct contact with UV rays of any type, it is like Kryptonite to superman.


 I know something that is more powerfull than Kryptonite.:yes:


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## Richard Hilliard

Here is what I am discovering with cpvc in Florida. Some types of armaflex has a powder in it that reacts to the chemicals in cpvc pipe making it brittle.This was discovered ina condo where all of the cpvc piping had to be replaced. The original plumber did not know that some armaflex could not be used with cpvc. The supply house did not know this either. 

Do not install cpvc against cinder block. I am not a chemist but I believe the lime in the concrete reacts to the cpvc. I have service a lot of cpvc that is brittle and it is against cinder block. No proof just a theory do to the many repairs that I have made since 1993.

Water smells in a cpvc water piping system due to flowguards chemicals and it may take a long time to have the gases leave the sytem.


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## Protech

You are incorrect about both. The talcum power inside the armaflex is not reactive with cpvc, nor is concrete/cinderblock/mortar. CPVC is an inherently brittle material. Plasticizers and stabilizers are added to it to make it flexible. Those chemicals breakdown/leach out of the resin over time and it becomes brittle with age. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO PREVENT THIS. It is the inherent nature of the material and even the guys at Noveon/Flowguard/Lubrizol will tell you this.

There are many hydrocarbons that do cause cpvc to become brittle(faster) or become soft though.
 



Richard Hilliar said:


> Here is what I am discovering with cpvc in Florida. Some types of armaflex has a powder in it that reacts to the chemicals in cpvc pipe making it brittle.This was discovered ina condo where all of the cpvc piping had to be replaced. The original plumber did not know that some armaflex could not be used with cpvc. The supply house did not know this either.
> 
> Do not install cpvc against cinder block. I am not a chemist but I believe the lime in the concrete reacts to the cpvc. I have service a lot of cpvc that is brittle and it is against cinder block. No proof just a theory do to the many repairs that I have made since 1993.
> 
> Water smells in a cpvc water piping system due to flowguards chemicals and it may take a long time to have the gases leave the sytem.


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## Redwood

Around here CPVC is the choice of the Handy Man...

I have only seen a couple of professional installations of CPVC in my entire career here in CT... :laughing:


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## Protech

Let's see some pictures from my personal collection :clap:


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## Protech

more


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## Protech

and more


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## Protech

yep, still going.


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## Protech

Almost done


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## Protech

Done


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## Protech

OK, I've shot my wad now :laughing:


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## Redwood

Damn that stuff looks like $hiot! :laughing:


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## Protech

Lot's of construction at the turn of the century with this crap.

It's good to be a service plumber here in Florida :rockon:



Redwood said:


> Damn that stuff looks like $hiot! :laughing:


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER

I would never TUBE a new house in CPVC. Never Ever.:whistling2:


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## GREENPLUM

nothing wrong with CPVC, The Great Code Book says I can use it. I gave a stick of Pex a dirty look the other day then a instant pinhole happened and got me all wet. CPVC has never done that


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## Redwood

I like the way CPVC looks after it freezes....:laughing:

Kinda like this one....










Was that a freeze up Protech?


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## GREENPLUM

i had a 12 unit Apt building freeze up, I truly love CPVC


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## PlungerJockey

I can't believe people put that crap in the slab. I need to relocate to Florida.


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## Protech

code book says you can use polybutylene too.



GREENPLUM said:


> nothing wrong with CPVC, The Great Code Book says I can use it. I gave a stick of Pex a dirty look the other day then a instant pinhole happened and got me all wet. CPVC has never done that


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## Protech

yes



Redwood said:


> I like the way CPVC looks after it freezes....:laughing:
> 
> Kinda like this one....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was that a freeze up Protech?


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## GREENPLUM

Protech said:


> code book says you can use polybutylene too.


 
for shizzle, i worked in a house with 24 year old PB, I unclogged a disposer, i ask the HO about the PB , they were clueless about it.


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## Richard Hilliard

*cpvc*

Protech. Thanks for clearing that up.


Now I have more questions and I hope you can answer. Why would the piping company claim that the powder in the covering had this affect if it was not true? Why does cpvc that is laid against cinder block seem to split and crack more than those installed in a wall with the same cutter and a sharp cutter blade.Age of the pipe six years and older.


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## stillaround

Heres some insight to the company mindset....last paragraph


Ferguson sold lots of this...now they switched to charlotte..its a game.

Just had my 1st pinhole ..house was 3 years old. Got a hold of the warranty.


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## Redwood

IMHO CPVC is...










:laughing:


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## Master Mark

*you need to do a web site*



Protech said:


> yes


thanks for the pics.... 
I cant understand how some idiot would
just install that stuff directly in concrete with joints
and without armaflex... its beyond belief......



if you have not done so already, 
you need to put them on a web site 
as an extra kicker when you sell your re-pipes to
your customers....All they got to do is go to your
site and click on that page and its a slam dunk.

people like to look at pretty pictures on computor screens.....


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## Protech

Way ahead of ya buddy. I just put together a repipe sales packet. Those pictures were but a taste from that packet. So far, I'm batting at 100% with that packet. I hope the trend continues .



Master Mark said:


> thanks for the pics....
> I cant understand how some idiot would
> just install that stuff directly in concrete with joints
> and without armaflex... its beyond belief......
> 
> 
> 
> if you have not done so already,
> you need to put them on a web site
> as an extra kicker when you sell your re-pipes to
> your customers....All they got to do is go to your
> site and click on that page and its a slam dunk.
> 
> people like to look at pretty pictures on computor screens.....


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## Will

Protech,

In Florida you see CPVC in the slab? Do you see that in new construction or is that hack work? Geez that's crap why would a inspector with at least a 3rd grade level education allow such crap?


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## TheMaster

Will said:


> Protech,
> 
> In Florida you see CPVC in the slab? Do you see that in new construction or is that hack work? Geez that's crap why would a inspector with at least a 3rd grade level education allow such crap?


I will answer for him. Yes you will see that in new construction and the inspector will allow it because he MUST.....it meets the minimum requirments of their plumbing code.


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## Will

Thats crazy. Can you put Type L copper in slab or a solder joint? I have to braze and use K copper under slab. No glue joint would ever be allowed. Guess everywhere is different.


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## TheMaster

Will said:


> Thats crazy. Can you put Type L copper in slab or a solder joint? I have to braze and use K copper under slab. No glue joint would ever be allowed. Guess everywhere is different.


Only brazed joints allowed on copper under a slab. You do know that cpvc is sold in rolls like copper too dont ya?


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## M5Plumb

If you have done any repairs, or continue to do them, be vewy vewy cawful, da attorney is hunting wabbit and you might make some good Hossenfeffa!
Just saying "Watch your Six"


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## M5Plumb

At this point the battle to be continued is to an entire repipe.


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## Will

TheMaster said:


> Only brazed joints allowed on copper under a slab. You do know that cpvc is sold in rolls like copper too dont ya?



No I didn't. Never seen or heard of that. Who makes it?


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## TheMaster

Will said:


> No I didn't. Never seen or heard of that. Who makes it?


I know charlotte makes it.


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