# Residential vs commercial



## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

Do they both deserve the same amount of respect in our trade?

My apprenticeship was spend in a mechanical company that specialized in commercial plumbing and mechanicals. We used to always play-down the skill it takes to be a residential plumber. After getting my license I was given a good opportunity in a great company. Truck, tools, two apprentices, and all the, or as little over, overtime I could ask for doing...residential new construction plumbing and heating. And I have to say, it takes quite a bit of skill to fly through a house rough-in, solder up a boiler room, and even run pex, all efficiently and within those tight budgets builders are asking for.

So, kudos to All y'all residential plumbers.

Sent from my iPod touch using PlumbingZone


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## c-note (Aug 12, 2011)

i started out in residential about ten years then about ten years in commercial.i think residential really prepares you for anything commercial can dish out.most commercial jobs you dont have to drill every hole through joists or crawl under houses pushing pipe and tools.ypu also dont have a home owner looking over your shoulder worrying about scratches on the hardwood.we build half the house in the sun till the roof is built.i like commercial you have a superintendant and a inspector whos checking on ya and the supers usually too busy to even talk to ya.i give residential alot of respect.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

This topic has been hashed out for years here..

I have personally seen res plumber thrown into commercial Plumbing/Mechanical and sink. I have seen others who excelled.

Same thing goes for vise versa.

I respect everyone in this trade, it takes a different breed to do what we do. But just like every other field of employment you have people who are content with what they do and don't see the need in changing or doing something other than what they are comfortable with...

It's all about how hungry you are. Bottom line...


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

No matter what side of the spectrum you're on, if you're a competent plumber you should be able to do both, well.


I've done both for years, more residential than commercial. 


With residential you seem to deal with on the spot payment, simplistic issues with the history known by those there.


In commercial it seems nobody knows anything about the scenario other than fix it, we'll pay you sometime in the future. 


I hate the windshield time, time at the supply houses when dealing with commercial plumbing. 



I told a guy working at TGIF one night that if he hit me with a bus pan one more time I'll throw you through a f-ing wall. 

Nothing worse than trying to work and someone bumping into you.


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

It's the same skill set. Pipe is pipe. The mind set is the key. I know some insanely great resi guys, who were way better/faster than me. I made the jump to commercial then pipefitting, and they are out of the trade because resi has slowed down so much, and they couldn't leave their comfort zone. 
Our trade has many little specialties, like hydronics, resi new con, resi service, commercial new con and service, industrial new con and service, high rises, medical. I know a lot about 3 of these and a little about the rest.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

I've done tons and tons of resi new con, tons of light commercial new con, remodel, multi family, and a fair bit of service. I've never done any large industrial type work though I would love to have the opportunity.

Of everything I have done, I find service to be the most difficult and least satisfying personally. This is largely due to the skills needed in managing the people involved. Guys who are good at it have my deepest respect and admiration....


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

greenscoutII said:


> I've done tons and tons of resi new con, tons of light commercial new con, remodel, multi family, and a fair bit of service. I've never done any large industrial type work though I would love to have the opportunity.
> 
> Of everything I have done, I find service to be the most difficult and least satisfying personally. This is largely due to the skills needed in managing the people involved. Guys who are good at it have my deepest respect and admiration....


 Agreed to the word.
Commercial is the easiest.Most everything is thought out for us,just a little coordinating with the other subs and a few code issues and you are off and running with wide open spaces
Tenant improve on a penthouse with an ignorant,emotional,female GC has got to be the most P.I.T.A. exact opposite of the previous description.
Over 6,000sq.ft. customs are usually the most rewarding of time invested on a systems design.

Service...People are nice.They have no idea where some of us have been.If they did they would be a hellova lot more receptive.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

drtyhands said:


> Agreed to the word.
> Commercial is the easiest.Most everything is thought out for us,just a little coordinating with the other subs and a few code issues and you are off and running with wide open spaces
> Tenant improve on a penthouse with an ignorant,emotional,female GC has got to be the most P.I.T.A. exact opposite of the previous description.
> Over 6,000sq.ft. customs are usually the most rewarding of time invested on a systems design.
> ...


What commercial job you on that has wide open spaces to free roam with pipe?

You find one let me know and I will be turning in my application for employment.

Engineers don't give a shiot about the individual trades, their miracle work looks good on paper. Go to install and you can wipe your arse with the paper it was drawn on..


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> What commercial job you on that has wide open spaces to free roam with pipe?
> 
> You find one let me know and I will be turning in my application for employment.
> 
> Engineers don't give a shiot about the individual trades, their miracle work looks good on paper. Go to install and you can wipe your arse with the paper it was drawn on..


McDonalds,Jack in the Box and Burger King,done multiple of all three.Plans were(I cannot say for now) drawn up by artcs who knew the stores ,grocery stores,strip malls,all TI work in malls,all tilt-ups in industrial parks,Hanging pipe in a parking garage.

Now as far as something likened to maybe a hospital,now that is a totaly different animal.That is where the plumbing super better have his Stuff together.I never been there.

I like the commercial jobs I've done in my area it is the easiest for me.Just not any to be had anymore.Contractors use undocumented street laborers kindof tough for honest Americans to outbid them.

I'll say it right now that many here have skills that surpass mine.
Did not intend to offend.
A humble hat in hand.


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

drtyhands said:


> McDonalds,Jack in the Box and Burger King,done multiple of all three.Plans were(I cannot say for now) drawn up by artcs who knew the stores ,grocery stores,strip malls,all TI work in malls,all tilt-ups in industrial parks,Hanging pipe in a parking garage.
> 
> Now as far as something likened to maybe a hospital,now that is a totaly different animal.That is where the plumbing super better have his Stuff together.I never been there.
> 
> ...


No offense taken my brother.

We cater to the hospital sector here, along with the educational institutions. 

Your correct in it's a whole nother animal. I cut my teeth on it.. It keeps you on your toes.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Plumberman said:


> What commercial job you on that has wide open spaces to free roam with pipe?
> 
> You find one let me know and I will be turning in my application for employment.
> 
> Engineers don't give a shiot about the individual trades, their miracle work looks good on paper. Go to install and you can wipe your arse with the paper it was drawn on..


You hit the nail on the head!!! Ive done commercial/mech/industrial and res and com service for a different outfit... Never new res though!!! I find service very easy compared to com and or mech.. I see what the service guy buys in the morning compared to what I buy !!! But a very experienced service plumber would be faster and more efficient then me cuz I don't have those years under my belt and can't identify the brand of a stem by site or some other tricks they have in ther bag... But if you take a service plumber and throw him on a big chill water system or commercial building he wouldn't be as fast or efficient as me.... My point we all have our area of expertise but a good plumber should be able to easily move from one area to another and learn it well very quickly!!!! I also know that the more areas you have learn the better plumber you will be!!!! After doin service and now back in mech ,,,when installing I take into consideration the service or maintenance of the system and try to not put the screws to the guy down the road.... All plumbers that have pride in there work have my up most respect... We could all teach each other a thing or two!!


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumberman said:


> What commercial job you on that has wide open spaces to free roam with pipe?
> 
> You find one let me know and I will be turning in my application for employment.
> 
> Engineers don't give a shiot about the individual trades, their miracle work looks good on paper. Go to install and you can wipe your arse with the paper it was drawn on..


New high rises are even worse, you have to go through the prints and basically re-engineer everything on them to make it work both code wise and layout wise, and we almost always had to add secondary stack to accommodate the laundry wastes, since no engineer can seem to grasp the whole concept of a suds pressure zone.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Killertoiletspider said:


> New high rises are even worse, you have to go through the prints and basically re-engineer everything on them to make it work both code wise and layout wise, and we almost always had to add secondary stack to accommodate the laundry wastes, since no engineer can seem to grasp the whole concept of a suds pressure zone.


I'd love to do a high rise!!!!


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

markb said:


> Do they both deserve the same amount of respect in our trade?...


 Of course they do. They are both Professional Plumbers. Like cars...some people can build a Lamborghini and others fix them. But they are both hard working and skilled in their craft.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> I'd love to do a high rise!!!!


OK, you get to do all the 15" suspended soil pipe, bring your big hammer for caulking those joints.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

To those of you who have extensive experience in large medical facilities, I am curious how you find working with cad generated lay out and detailing. When done well, with proper coordination of the various trades, I would bet this is very rewarding work. 
Anyone here done any penal work? I've always wanted to rough in and install a combination sink and toilet that's all stainless and bomb proof. 
I think Adam's (Dirtyhands)lot in life would be much improved if he would just break down and learn Spanish. :whistling2:


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## Mike Jessome (Aug 7, 2008)

It's kinda weird I am still in my apprenticeship and I have done a bit of everything and my favorite is commercial as long as the foreman is on top of things it all goes good and its better money,but where I am at commercial is always a rush its always get that in there the drywall is going on right after that pipe is in. Residential is where you "learn" to be a plumber you can layout the way you want and you have more time to be neat.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Killertoiletspider said:


> OK, you get to do all the 15" suspended soil pipe, bring your big hammer for caulking those joints.


I aint scared!!!!!


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Plumbus said:


> Anyone here done any penal work? . :whistling2:


 




I do alot of 'penal' work. I'll be doing some more when I get to bed tonight....:laughing:


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

I used to be a prison guard. I thought it would be like "*Cool Hand Luke." I*t wasn't. Now I can't remember what kind of fixtures were in the cells.


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## Dougmllr (Oct 16, 2011)

I worked in Colorado in a jail addition and we roughed it in with cast iron drains well another journeyman at the time did. I got stuck with the finish all the drains were off center and to high it was a nightmare, but very rewarding once all 7 toilet sink stainless combos and two drinking fountains were up and running it was ready rewarding. They also had two rooms where drunks could sober up with a drain in the middle and a valve on the outside to rise room out. Fun project.


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## greenscoutII (Aug 27, 2008)

Dougmllr said:


> I worked in Colorado in a jail addition and we roughed it in with cast iron drains well another journeyman at the time did. I got stuck with the finish all the drains were off center and to high it was a nightmare, but very rewarding once all 7 toilet sink stainless combos and two drinking fountains were up and running it was ready rewarding. They also had two rooms where drunks could sober up with a drain in the middle and a valve on the outside to rise room out. Fun project.


Was that down in Canon City? Cobb mechanical by any chance?


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

Plumbus said:


> I think Adam's (Dirtyhands)lot in life would be much improved if he would just break down and learn Spanish. :whistling2:


Your brutal


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## pauliplumber (Feb 9, 2009)

They both have their own unique skill sets. I like commercial work but I hate everything else about it. I hate the travel, I hate the politics, I hate useing sani cans that arent properly maintained, I hate the elements, I hate being stuck in the same place for 8 hours a day, I don't like heights, I hate brown bagging it. Other than that it was great :laughing:


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

I agree with pauli on the politics of commercial work. Job superintendents with agendas that are anything but geared to the common good of the job. Unrealistic job schedules. Lack of coordination. _Wait a minute, that applies to residential construction as well. _
This thread leads me to a theme that dirtyhands has beaten to the ground numerous times on another forum, the overall deterioration of worker skill sets over the last 1/4 century (at least here in California). Due to the desire of those writing the checks for ever cheaper inputs, be they material or labor, we've digressed to the present sad state of affairs where you can't assume anything performed by others is done professionally.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Plumbus said:


> I agree with pauli on the politics of commercial work. Job superintendents with agendas that are anything but geared to the common good of the job. Unrealistic job schedules. Lack of coordination. _Wait a minute, that applies to residential construction as well. _
> This thread leads me to a theme that dirtyhands has beaten to the ground numerous times on another forum, the overall deterioration of worker skill sets over the last 1/4 century (at least here in California). Due to the desire of those writing the checks for ever cheaper inputs, be they material or labor, we've digressed to the present sad state of affairs where you can't assume anything performed by others is done professionally.


The state of California is responsible for a lot of the diminished skills in that state, by allowing the unlicensed to perform plumbing work. If you want to see a return of actual skills, petition the state to change it so that plumbing work requires a plumbing license, and not just a license for the company owner, but that every apprentice and journeyman performing the work carry a license that allows them to do the work.


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## The real E.P. (Aug 9, 2011)

Extremely stupid title for thread ... Doesn't deserve response ..... One thing I have learnt is that you get what you put in .. No one is better than the other they are a bit different. It is your skill and personality that make the difference


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> The state of California is responsible for a lot of the diminished skills in that state, by allowing the unlicensed to perform plumbing work. If you want to see a return of actual skills, petition the state to change it so that plumbing work requires a plumbing license, and not just a license for the company owner, but that every apprentice and journeyman performing the work carry a license that allows them to do the work.


With 37 million people (not counting the illegals) I don't think my petition would go very far. California does have a requirement for electrical certification. However, only a little more than 50 thousand electricians have passed the certification test (out of over 80 thousand who have taken it so far) since it was enacted in Jan. '09. Plus, the state licensing board doesn't have the man power to enforce the law. So the law, as of yet, has no teeth. 
I think (and hope) that once the electrical cert program works out the bugs we will have a similar law covering the plumbing trade. With all the bills emanating from Sacramento (many of which are comically inane) you'd think a no brainer like plumbing certification would have come down the pipe long before this.


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

The real E.P. said:


> Extremely stupid title for thread ... Doesn't deserve response ..... One thing I have learnt is that you get what you put in .. No one is better than the other they are a bit different. It is your skill and personality that make the difference


I Don't see why the title would upset you as much as it did? Or why it wouldn't deserve a response? (which you responded to anyways???) 

This is a forum, and a forum by definition is where people share ideas and discuss them. There is nothing wrong about starting a discussion with a somewhat controversial title. Or is there?

Sent from my iPod touch using PlumbingZone


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## SlickRick (Sep 3, 2009)

greenscoutII said:


> Was that down in Canon City? Cobb mechanical by any chance?


Cobb, you know them Sisson boy's?


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

both have their specific skills, but I prefer the residential service work

I turn down opportunities to bid commerical work about twice a week..... I dont need to dig slabs, to run 3 inch gas lines 40 feet in the air, be out in the elements or maybe UNDERBID the job...
then have to wait 120 days to get paid if they still are in business.. and then fight them over the 10% retainage they hold for about 6 more months.:furious: 

residential work is very laid back, very stress free, and you get to be around a lot of better class of people all day long over the common construction crowd......

oh, yea and you usually get your money without having to mud wrestle a GC for it...


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## The real E.P. (Aug 9, 2011)

markb said:


> I Don't see why the title would upset you as much as it did? Or why it wouldn't deserve a response? (which you responded to anyways???)
> 
> This is a forum, and a forum by definition is where people share ideas and discuss them. There is nothing wrong about starting a discussion with a somewhat controversial title. Or is there?
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using PlumbingZone


I drunk posted that's why I managed to not read the title correctly...


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## markb (Jun 11, 2009)

The real E.P. said:


> I drunk posted that's why I managed to not read the title correctly...


No problem I think everyone here has at least a few of those lol.

Sent from my iPod touch using PlumbingZone


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

EXCELLENT THREAD !! 
Been lucky enough to work in all aspects of our great trade ! Yes even some prison & hospital work & once at the pentagon . 
Have the UTMOST respect for all parts of the trade ! None of it is easy ,, parts of it are downright brutal ! One of the reasons i love PZ is we can disagree , downright fight ,hate on a subject but at days end ,,,, we have all froze or sweated our arses off in the same human waste and done something that has made another persons life better !
I have not had the honor of going into battle in a foreign land . I understand that the bonds that are created in the foxhole is truly made of steel ,,, however , the next time you're in a 7-11 or fast food place,bank line etc.. Notice the bond we all have ,Tell me that when you make eye contact with another construction worker ,, there isn't a mutual respect that says " these other folks have NO IDEA the battle we wage everyday" ! 

i just feel that this trade and this lifestyle NO MATTER what part of the trade you do , is really the backbone that this whole world should be built on. We handle insane problems that are right in front of us RIGHT F**KING NOW !! We don't wait to "form a committee that will choose a panel that will have a luncheon to form an opinion " . NO , RIGHT NOW we fix it , smack it's ass ,move on to the next emergency ALL DAY EVERYDAY ! that's a life to be proud of my brothers & sisters ,,, 
Sorry ,, a little preachy


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## Lmp (Oct 17, 2011)

Amen!


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Cal said:


> EXCELLENT THREAD !!
> Been lucky enough to work in all aspects of our great trade ! Yes even some prison & hospital work & once at the pentagon .
> Have the UTMOST respect for all parts of the trade ! None of it is easy ,, parts of it are downright brutal ! One of the reasons i love PZ is we can disagree , downright fight ,hate on a subject but at days end ,,,, we have all froze or sweated our arses off in the same human waste and done something that has made another persons life better !
> I have not had the honor of going into battle in a foreign land . I understand that the bonds that are created in the foxhole is truly made of steel ,,, however , the next time you're in a 7-11 or fast food place,bank line etc.. Notice the bond we all have ,Tell me that when you make eye contact with another construction worker ,, there isn't a mutual respect that says " these other folks have NO IDEA the battle we wage everyday" !
> ...


Hell to the yeah Cal!!!

Well said my brother


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## Mr Bruno (Sep 30, 2011)

Short answer is YES! Plumbing is plumbing, and it takes different skill sets for each part of the trade.

Started out doing aparments and houses around Seattle for about 6 years. Moved to Portland and got on with a commercial shop doing new, and TI's for about 10 years. Did alot of residential remodeling for my own shop (which tanked with the economy), and am doing mostly service work now for a school district. 
For those of you that do just service for your living, I have great respect. 
Large new commercial projects seemed to be the easiest to work on. Most things are spelled out for you. Commercial TI's can be a real P.I.T.A. as can residential remodels. Apartments and track homes take some thought on the first one, and then it is the same thing for months on end (not to mention for this area cold and wet). Custom homes take someone that knows layout.


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

Cal said:


> EXCELLENT THREAD !!
> 
> We handle insane problems that are right in front of us RIGHT F**KING NOW !! We don't wait to "form a committee that will choose a panel that will have a luncheon to form an opinion " . NO , RIGHT NOW we fix it , smack it's ass ,move on to the next emergency ALL DAY EVERYDAY ! that's a life to be proud of my brothers & sisters ,,,
> Sorry ,, a little preachy


I can't wait to get out of residential service. I'm tired of of educating people why they need to replace failed regulators, why quality work costs money, and comparison shopped to hacks.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

JK949 said:


> I can't wait to get out of residential service. I'm tired of of educating people why they need to replace failed regulators, why quality work costs money, and comparison shopped to hacks.


Well come on to the dark side!!!! Leave your sewer machine, seat wrench, and stem puller behind!!! Grab your hard hat and 24" pipe wrench and let's kick some as !!!!


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## stillaround (Mar 11, 2009)

markb said:


> Do they both deserve the same amount of respect in our trade?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using PlumbingZone


 One thing...Osha regards residential with less respect or concern than commercial...


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

JK949 said:


> I can't wait to get out of residential service. I'm tired of of educating people why they need to replace failed regulators, why quality work costs money, and comparison shopped to hacks.









OK. Now you'll be telling GC's why quality work costs and you'll be bid shopped to death....:yes:

You're merely trading one class of people for another. Nothing will change much.... 

At least with residential, we as plumbers are not sub-contracting. We are essentially the contractor with homeowner, (at least with regard to straight service calls).


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

JK949 said:


> I can't wait to get out of residential service. I'm tired of of educating people why they need to replace failed regulators, why quality work costs money, and comparison shopped to hacks.


Hahaha, had that one today. Three year old GE gas heater, T&P leaking, last plumber didn't tie it in to the existing drain line, just a twelve inch pipe to discharge to the floor, no sediment trap, no thermal expansion tank and 120 psi water pressure. This is 2700 sf house in an exclusive gated golf community. Gave the customer a price to install a PRV and bring to code. 

Get the okay, then get a call from their son from Missouri because now it's a committee decision, and he thinks that GE should have included all of those things on the heater when they sold it . Typical know-it-all, who thinks the valve at the meter needs to be "turned down". While I am there, there is a crew of four people there to clean the windows and chandeliers on their vaulted ceiling.


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## Nikolai (Dec 17, 2009)

I spent my 4 year apprenticeship with a residential plumbing and heating company doing everything from remodels and boiler/furnace replacements, to million dollar custom homes. At the 4.5 year mark I went to a different company to get into to commercial plumbing, that was 2 years ago. I worked for a very detail oriented resi company and the background it gave me was invaluable. When I do decide to start my own company I already have an excellent understanding of residential construction.

I get quite a bit of crap about how easy resi is and it doesn't take any skill. This drives me off the wall, I think residential hands down required more thought and skill. We actually had to add fixture units up and size the gas/water/waste & vent ourselves, not look at a set of plans and just do what they say. 

Commercial plumbing has been great, pays more, and I've learned a lot, but most of the commercial plumbers I work with can't do anything house related so I end up helping them out. I absolutely wouldn't trade my residential experience for anything. It's kept me busy during slow periods since I can work both sides of the company.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

I agree !! Different experiences in diff areas of plumbing will make you a better plumber and more versatile !!! But not all com or mech work is as simple as reading prints!!! Yes most is designed by an engineer... But they screw up all the time and we have to find the solutions and fix it .... I've done both res and com. And a house just does not present the same challenges as com. Just the amount of pipe and the size of the systems is a big difference I've never seen chs cwr hws hwr 3" Dom water , hot water circ Sanitary , roof drains, med gas.. All crammed in a celing or a chase in a house!!!


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## JK949 (Mar 18, 2009)

ChrisConnor said:


> Hahaha, had that one today. Three year old GE gas heater, T&P leaking, last plumber didn't tie it in to the existing drain line, just a twelve inch pipe to discharge to the floor, no sediment trap, no thermal expansion tank and 120 psi water pressure. This is 2700 sf house in an exclusive gated golf community. Gave the customer a price to install a PRV and bring to code.
> 
> Get the okay, then get a call from their son from Missouri because now it's a committee decision, and he thinks that GE should have included all of those things on the heater when they sold it . Typical know-it-all, who thinks the valve at the meter needs to be "turned down". While I am there, there is a crew of four people there to clean the windows and chandeliers on their vaulted ceiling.


So there was an existing t&p drain to the outside wall the last guy just didn't feel like tying into?

I'm sure the cleaning crew are paid in cash at slave labor rates, nothing really changes.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

JK949 said:


> So there was an existing t&p drain to the outside wall the last guy just didn't feel like tying into?
> 
> I'm sure the cleaning crew are paid in cash at slave labor rates, nothing really changes.



Nope, didn't tie it together. Also used sharbite x male to connect the flex connectors. 

I don't know what the cleaning crew charges, but usually climbing a ladder to clean the exterior windows on a two story is a premium fee.


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## Mr Jay (Nov 10, 2011)

Plumbing is plumbing. . . right? Well not really. I've found that the plumbing trade is really several trades within one. Each has it's purpose and none more important than another. All very different none the less. Just be proud to be a plumber and know that the job you perform, whatever type of plumbing it may be is vitally important to us remaining the civilized country we are and not a third world country with unsanitary conditions, disease and non drinkable water. We really do protect the health of the nation. Now get back to work!


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