# How do you connect PVC waterline to copper underground?



## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

How do you do it? Why so?


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## hulihan (Aug 11, 2009)

We never have, that would be homeowner handyman stuff around here, maybe to fix a sprinkler (yard) not sure, but I do see a lot of copper going to the sprinkler manifold and then pvc coming out


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## 422 plumber (Jul 31, 2008)

When I do RPZ's for lawn irrigation, I leave a brass sweat by female NPT elbow. The irrigation guys then thread a pvc male adapter into that.


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## tnoisaw (Jun 16, 2009)

PVC Dresser coupling. I don't like using a male and female adapter together and a dresser is easier to use in ground.


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## 22rifle (Jun 14, 2008)

Where I have worked (MO, NM, CO, OK, and NC) it was common to see the main waterline run to the house in PVC. I used to do all my houses in copper so I had to transition.

Dug up too many split PVC FIPs to ever use that method. Same thing with PVC MIPs broken at the base of the threads.

My dad used to silver solder a copper MIP on, then use a PVC MIP with 2 All SS hose clamps around it to prevent splitting. Note the "All SS" as opposed to just regular SS.

I quickly abandoned that when I left home and have used 2 primary methods. I had access to Sch. 80 PVC FIPs with a built in SS band. So I would silver solder on the copper MIP and use those.

But my prinary method was to buy 12" threaded Sch. 80 PVC nipples and cut them in half. I silver soldered on the copper MIP as before and then threaded on a brass coupling into which I then screwed the (now) 6" long, half nipple. Glue a regular PVC coupling on that and I was good to go.

Why not direct into a copper FIP? Just a general uneasiness with copper FIPs. That was maybe a wasted step.

I used the same concept to connect to yard hydrants. There I screwed in a galvanized street 90, an 18" to 24" piece of galvanized pipe, a 3/4" x 1" galvanized coupling, and threaded the (now) 6" half nipple into that.

Side note: I would then wrap the entire underground portion of the galvanized pipe with 2" pipe wrap.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

I use a female on the copper, and a sch 80 male on the pvc. it will last for a very, very long time. Tell em Ken.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

ROCKSTARPLUMBER said:


> I use a female on the copper, and a sch 80 male on the pvc. it will last for a very, very long time. Tell em Ken.


 
This is the correct way to do it, Male copper / Female plastic.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

What rockstar said :yes:


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

WTF??????????? Are you nuts????
You NEVER put metal inside of plastic. The plastic tries to contract but the metal doesn't. The plastic losses and splits. Seen it a million times. 


Tankless said:


> This is the correct way to do it, Male copper / Female plastic.


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

If there is little to no temperature fluctuation, then a MIP PVC into an FIP Copper should be OK, but the best way from my experience would be a MIP Copper into a PVC FIP where the FIP has a pre-stressed factory installed stainless steel ring around the threads (Ipex makes these in their PVC Sch 80 and their Corzan CPVC Sch 80). This is designed specfically for a metal MIP to be screwed into so it won't crack and it will handle decent temperatue fluctuation too. 

Also, technically, at least according to an IPEX technical rep I spoke to a year or so ago, you are not supposed to use any pipe dope on their threads, only teflon, period. They said despite what the manufactuers of pipe dope state, they haven't found one pipe dope that is completely safe.

Also, I have heard, could be wrong, but I believe there could be a manufacurer out there that has a PVC MIP that has brass impregnated into it, or at least a Brass section for the threads only to reinforce them to help reduce expansion/contraction due to temperature fluctuation.

Quite honestly I really try to limit any PVC or CPVC I install. ESPECIALLY for water main/service/pipe (potable) applicatins, and even Non potable/drainage applications. This stuff is loaded with metals for stabilizers and is not very environmentally friendly. I've heard some inklings through the grapevine of the potential for this stuff to leech into the water. Nevermind breathin in all the VOC's when you're gluing it (where you should be using a mask).

For plastic water mains Fusiotherm/Aquatherm Polypropolene is about as good as it gets, and their MIP and FIP adapters brass adapters impregnated into Polypropolene so you have no issues with expansion/contraction from metal to plastic because it is an all metal connection. Also the brass in their adapters is lead free. Long lasting (should last longer than Copper), very pure and won't leech into water, does not contain metal stabilizers, permanently fused joints/connections, and very recyclable, and excellent adapters - the only con is PP-R is a bit more difficult to work with in tight locations.


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## Tankless (Jun 12, 2008)

Protech said:


> WTF??????????? Are you nuts????
> You NEVER put metal inside of plastic. The plastic tries to contract but the metal doesn't. The plastic losses and splits. Seen it a million times.


 
Shyit, I said it backwards....

what RSP said...Plastic male, female copper. Sorry, I just went to Costco, thay had my favorite wine (yeah I know) on sale......lit up


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

Scott K said:


> Also, technically, at least according to an IPEX technical rep I spoke to a year or so ago, you are not supposed to use any pipe dope on their threads, only teflon, period. They said despite what the manufactuers of pipe dope state, they haven't found one pipe dope that is completely safe.


I have found that relying on teflon alone to seal PVC threads does not work, period. Teflon tape & Permatex works.

I wish that rep was around when I was piping a chlorine injection station in PoCo in '93. Every friggin' PVC threaded joint was weeping with just teflon. Had to cut the PVC reinstall every solenoid valve and threaded connection. I would have buried the guy when I backfilled the service line.


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## Cal (Jun 17, 2008)

Tankless said:


> Shyit, I said it backwards....
> 
> what RSP said...Plastic male, female copper. Sorry, I just went to Costco, thay had my favorite wine (yeah I know) on sale......lit up


 Man ,,, I'm glad you corrected that ,,,, was about to blow our friendship and get REAL disrespectful :laughing::laughing: 

What wine is it ???


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## ESPinc (Jul 18, 2009)

Mainly we use females to pvc males. We do alot of meter installs and for them I will use spears pvc female adaptor with the ss band, have yet to see one of these fail.


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## ILPlumber (Jun 17, 2008)

Why bury a threaded connection?

Mueller makes water service fittings just for this purpose.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

ILPlumber said:


> Why bury a threaded connection?
> 
> Mueller makes water service fittings just for this purpose.


I agree. Definitely the best way to connect U/G.


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

ESPinc said:


> Mainly we use females to pvc males. We do alot of meter installs and for them I will use spears pvc female adaptor with the ss band, have yet to see one of these fail.


That is the fitting I am talking about.

Ever try using any MIP plastic into metal FIP in a heating system? Good luck! That's why you need one of the above fittings.
I've seen the plastic MIP's snap right in the middle of the threads before. It's one of the thinnest/weakest parts of the plastic system.

If you need to depend on permatex to prevent leaks then there's something wrong.


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

Scott K said:


> If you need to depend on permatex to prevent leaks then there's something wrong.


Whatever. In any application of PCV on PCV threads when I used teflon tape only they did not seal 100%. But WTH do I know? I've only been in the trade since 1984.


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## tnoisaw (Jun 16, 2009)

Tankless said:


> This is the correct way to do it, Male copper / Female plastic.


I think calling this the "correct" way is pretty subjective. I personally don't like that option. What I've found here in Florida is a lot of calls at the meter with a schedule 40 male adapter that split. We use schedule 80 to repair.

Since our water lines are barely underground they can have a lot of movement due to roots Ect. The dresser coupling seem to be the most forgiving for this application.


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## nipthedog (Aug 31, 2009)

Regulator said:


> Whatever. In any application of PCV on PCV threads when I used teflon tape only they did not seal 100%. But WTH do I know? I've only been in the trade since 1984.


Water costs so little on the West Coast, whats a little leakage?
HAHA! But I agree, I installed a irrigation system in my vegetable garden in the summer place and had trouble only using teflon. Maybe Scott knows something we don't?


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## Regulator (Aug 20, 2009)

All I know is when working with PVC I have applied teflon tape to threads correctly. I screw the joint together with the correct torque. Water drips seep from the threads. 

Experience has taught me to apply an appropriate liquid thread sealant in addition to the teflon tape to ensure a water-tight connection.

Experience has also taught me not to believe everything a Manufacturer's Rep may say.


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## ROCKSTARPLUMBER (Dec 14, 2008)

T-plus 2. thats how i roll on all threaded materials. No teflon. Ever.


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## Scott K (Oct 12, 2008)

nipthedog said:


> Water costs so little on the West Coast, whats a little leakage?
> HAHA! But I agree, I installed a irrigation system in my vegetable garden in the summer place and had trouble only using teflon. Maybe Scott knows something we don't?


It's not that I know something you don't. It's that I am fairly by the book (for the most part) and this is what I was told by the manufactuer (teflon only). 

Like I described in my earlier post, I would prefer to use a plastic FIP with stainless ring and a metal MIP. This can handle temperature fluctuation.


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## Bollinger plumber (Apr 3, 2009)

I use ford or mueller compression brass fittings.


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## highpoint (Mar 3, 2009)

I like mueller as well 
anything but the ****tiest fittings in the world - CAMBRIDGE
i write that because it is true
as for any threaded fittings....t-tape then the dope ... gotta have both if you're working with me...i dont care which order you put them on as long as you got both!


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## kellybhutchings (Jul 29, 2008)

ford meter box fittings to make the transition is best. It is usally against code to use plastic female fittings on pressure pipe.


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## leak1 (Mar 25, 2009)

mueller-yep! :thumbsup:


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

leak1 said:


> mueller-yep! :thumbsup:


 Agree 100%. Also agree 100% teflon tape then rector. Teflon tape only, only if you want it to leak.


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## Protech (Sep 22, 2008)

Which code would you be refering to?



kellybhutchings said:


> ford meter box fittings to make the transition is best. It is usally against code to use plastic female fittings on pressure pipe.


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