# what's up with new construction plumbers?



## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

I just sold two new Toto drakes the other day. I had been out to the job for a toilet problem and recommended replacement. They kind of flinched at the price. They called me back a week or so later and wanted the toilets replaced. The house was built in 2006, so I didn't expect any surprises. The job was scheduled for Friday afternoon. I was looking forward to an easy job to wrap up the week. I don't get to work in new houses very often so I was happy to have a simple job for once. No warped floors, stripped out shut offs or old lead flanges to deal with.
I was flying along, unpacked the toilets and built them in the garage. Vac out and pull the existing toilets, go to set the first toilet and find out the flange is roughed in at 9 1/2"!!!! Second toilet at 9 1/4"..Good afternoon turned bad. Are they not handing out measuring tapes to apprentices any more? I know low bid gets the job but WTF? Luckily the supply house had two 10" rough bowls that squeaked in, but my quick job turned into an afternoon long pain in the a**. I blame the "git er done" residential sweatpants and running shoe new construction guys. At least I won't run out of work.


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

i am not surprised. They were building things so quick what do you expect


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

Well you have to know english to read plumbing codes so there ya go.......


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## PinkPlumber (May 20, 2012)

we are all going to jail.....did you caulk the new toilets to the floor?


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

pdxplumber said:


> I just sold two new Toto drakes the other day. I had been out to the job for a toilet problem and recommended replacement. They kind of flinched at the price. They called me back a week or so later and wanted the toilets replaced. The house was built in 2006, so I didn't expect any surprises. The job was scheduled for Friday afternoon. I was looking forward to an easy job to wrap up the week. I don't get to work in new houses very often so I was happy to have a simple job for once. No warped floors, stripped out shut offs or old lead flanges to deal with.
> I was flying along, unpacked the toilets and built them in the garage. Vac out and pull the existing toilets, go to set the first toilet and find out the flange is roughed in at 9 1/2"!!!! Second toilet at 9 1/4"..Good afternoon turned bad. Are they not handing out measuring tapes to apprentices any more? I know low bid gets the job but WTF? Luckily the supply house had two 10" rough bowls that squeaked in, but my quick job turned into an afternoon long pain in the a**. I blame the "git er done" residential sweatpants and running shoe new construction guys. At least I won't run out of work.


Why does it have to be all bad? What if architect drew inside dimensions wrong and overall said one thing. ? What if slab was out of square? What if the plumber made a mistake? I am new construction and service, remember, everyone makes mistakes, 

Maybe you made a mistake for not going in the house and seeing what you had to work with before making the mistake of guessing. Getter Dunn!!!


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

In the city I live in most house are built 2005 or newer and the problem here is Paco or Nacho the Illegals Alien did the new construction here.

My city right now they are building houses right and left, and all these houses have illegals doing all the plumbing.

My house in my master bathroom is a little less than 10", and in another bathroom it must be at least 15"


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

Gotta start measuring from the wall to the closet bolts.

Fortunately for you, the Totos came in a 10" rough. Whew!!


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

TallCoolOne said:


> In the city I live in most house are built 2005 or newer and the problem here is Paco or Nacho the Illegals Alien did the new construction here.
> 
> My city right now they are building houses right and left, and all these houses have illegals doing all the plumbing.
> 
> My house in my master bathroom is a little less than 10", and in another bathroom it must be at least 15"


I agree with you one this one but the name thing is a bit much...my brothers name is Paco. He has a masters degree and teaches highschool math, he's a US Citz and puts up with way more crap than we ever will.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

RealCraftsMan said:


> I agree with you one this one but the name thing is a bit much...my brothers name is Paco. He has a masters degree and teaches highschool math, he's a US Citz and puts up with way more crap than we ever will.


That's funny


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## affordabledrain (Nov 24, 2009)

lets see lowest bidder. Illegals not paying a cent in taxes. wow and we wonder why the newer houses are all screwed up


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I say it's the builders fault. They force us to do the job at such a low rate that it's just slap it and get out.

If all the tract house plumbers were to "just say no" to the low prices, some of this would come to a stop. Not all, but a lot.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

TallCoolOne said:


> In the city I live in most house are built 2005 or newer and the problem here is Paco or Nacho the Illegals Alien did the new construction here.
> 
> My city right now they are building houses right and left, and all these houses have illegals doing all the plumbing.
> 
> My house in my master bathroom is a little less than 10", and in another bathroom it must be at least 15"


TCO, I deal with the same stuff you do...BUT, I think you're over the top on the name calling and constant bashing. Nothing personal, but it does get old.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

RealCraftsMan said:


> Well you have to know english to read plumbing codes so there ya go.......


Since when is the rough-in dimension from the back wall of the toilet code...

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> TCO, I deal with the same stuff you do...BUT, I think you're over the top on the name calling and constant bashing. Nothing personal, but it does get old.


I feel ya Titan, but he is telling truth.


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm not disputing the fact that we are overrun by illegals, I just don't think we have to continue to bash and smash. 

If the builders were not such cheapazzes we would not be in the mess we are in.

I have refused to do the tract homes...give me the customs and allow EVERYONE to make some money.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

God Bless the new construction guys.

Their poor installations will make work for me for the rest of my life.

I set the bowl and then set the tank after the bowl is bolted down. That way I'm not lugging a complete toilet toilet up stairs or through door ways twice, just on the removal of the old one.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> Since when is the rough-in dimension from the back wall of the toilet code...
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


 






Good point Old School. I think the standard rough-in of 12" is an industy standard, but not necessarily a code requirement.


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## justin (May 14, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> I'm not disputing the fact that we are overrun by illegals, I just don't think we have to continue to bash and smash.
> 
> If the builders were not such cheapazzes we would not be in the mess we are in.
> 
> I have refused to do the tract homes...give me the customs and allow EVERYONE to make some money.


Right on, I have yet to land a trac home. There is such thing as being overqualified, you know? Most of them guys don't carry workers comp, liability, and are not an s-corp. let the hacks start having to match witholdings, pay payroll taxes, twc, quarterly, and still work for cheap diicks.! Lmao


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

justin said:


> Right on, I have yet to land a trac home. There is such thing as being overqualified, you know? Most of them guys don't carry workers comp, liability, and are not an s-corp. let the hacks start having to match witholdings, pay payroll taxes, twc, quarterly, and still work for cheap diicks.! Lmao


Get the IRS to shut them down

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

OldSchool said:


> Get the IRS to shut them down
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


Now, now...That wouldn't be politically correct, would it?


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> Now, now...That wouldn't be politically correct, would it?


When it comes down to their cut on the action they would be all over it... It's fine to mess with us but when it come to government tax dollars there is no mercy

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

pdxplumber said:


> I just sold two new Toto drakes the other day. I had been out to the job for a toilet problem and recommended replacement. They kind of flinched at the price. They called me back a week or so later and wanted the toilets replaced. The house was built in 2006, so I didn't expect any surprises. The job was scheduled for Friday afternoon. I was looking forward to an easy job to wrap up the week. I don't get to work in new houses very often so I was happy to have a simple job for once. No warped floors, stripped out shut offs or old lead flanges to deal with.
> I was flying along, unpacked the toilets and built them in the garage. Vac out and pull the existing toilets, go to set the first toilet and find out the flange is roughed in at 9 1/2"!!!! Second toilet at 9 1/4"..Good afternoon turned bad. Are they not handing out measuring tapes to apprentices any more? I know low bid gets the job but WTF? Luckily the supply house had two 10" rough bowls that squeaked in, but my quick job turned into an afternoon long pain in the a**. I blame the "git er done" residential sweatpants and running shoe new construction guys. At least I won't run out of work.


Why didn't you double check the rough in measurement the first time you there instead of assuming they were 12"?


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Why didn't you double check the rough in measurement the first time you there instead of assuming they were 12"?


Learned this as an apprentice doing a favor for a friend of the family . Picked up the American standard sliver Gray 12" rough in on Friday went to their house Saturday figured I'd be in and out easy . **** . Ended up resetting the old one explaining that they need a 10" rough in and left and yes I went to the house and had an opportunity to find out before that Saturday but didn't know any better . For the rest of the weekend that WC sat in my apartment living room and all I could think was if they don't take it back my broke apprentice ass is going to be stuck with a special order sliver gray wc . Well they took it back thank f/'c . Lesson learned and if they hadn't I looked at it as a lesson as it was and givin the opportunity always check before u show up to replace a wc . I hope u didn't charge for the extra running around u had to do .


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

Now from my experience the main reason for a 10 or say 15" rough in is there was a joust in the way so before u bash think about possible reason why , lol . I know about offset flanges but u tell the builder he's going to have to header that joist or reinforce it ya he'll tell u to use s 10" if he knows his **** or go 15 and I'll put a false wall in behind the wc . Ya from my last post a joist was the reason it was a 10" rough in . Ya the real moral of tour story us u had a good day that Friday and why u ask well I'll tell u . U learned something and any day I learn something new in this trade it's a good day because it will help me in the future .


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## TallCoolOne (Dec 19, 2010)

Titan Plumbing said:


> TCO, I deal with the same stuff you do...BUT, I think you're over the top on the name calling and constant bashing. Nothing personal, but it does get old.


Where I live, they are builiding houses everywhere you look. Every few weeks I see a field being cleared and having utilities being put in, and then a new housing subdivision.

I probably can see at least 100 new slabs being poured each day, and these houses are about 3000 to 4000 sq ft houses, I see so much money Americans could make each day.

Yes this will be work for me in the future, but right now I would say more than half the new houses are less than 5 years old, so not so much work as of yet.

They say we are in a recession, but if you saw all the new construction here you would never know it.


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## user2090 (Sep 26, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> Why didn't you double check the rough in measurement the first time you there instead of assuming they were 12"?



I'm sure at some point all of us have done that. People look at me weird when I throw the tape down just to make sure. 

How many plumbers carry a tape on them at all times?


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

I run into framing/groundwork situations all the time where a 12" rough isn't going to work.

Floor joists or glue lams during rough-in and even grade beams during ground work.

As far as options go, ordering a 10" or a 15" bowl is a far cheaper remedy than re-framing or jackhammering out a concrete grade beam or footing.


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## GREENPLUM (Jul 27, 2008)

its 10, 12 and 14" not 15 

YOu assume the toilets were 12" rough, next time you will measure. This isnt the new construction guys fault, prolly a joist in the way.

BTW a 10" rough toilet cost more than a 12" round here, so there goes the thought that they were trying to be cheap.


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## ChrisConnor (Dec 31, 2009)

A lot of the newer homes I've seen have a 12 rough in for the toilets, but the added chair rail trim makes a 10 rough tank necessary. 

Or you could just use 10" tanks all the time, that way they can paint behind the toilet if they wanna.


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## 89plumbum (May 14, 2011)

Have you ever asked a HO on the phone to measure to the center of the bolts for you and they say sure!

Just hold on a sec.

As they set the phone down you here them removing the lid.

They come back and say its 4 inches!

Sorry sir, I meant the bolts at the bottom. Ok?

They come back. Its also 4 inches? 

Lol!


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Since when is the rough-in dimension from the back wall of the toilet code...
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


Boxed me in there did ya?:laughing: I never said that, I was making a comment on the general state of the quality of workmanship on the new construction side of things.

My apologies for not being more clear.:thumbup:.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

RealCraftsMan said:


> Boxed me in there did ya?:laughing: I never said that, I was making a comment on the general state of the quality of workmanship on the new construction side of things.
> 
> My apologies for not being more clear.:thumbup:.





RealCraftsMan said:


> Well you have to know english to read plumbing codes so there ya go.......


 


OldSchool said:


> Since when is the rough-in dimension from the back wall of the toilet code...
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


You boxed yourself in.... I had nothing to do with it


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> You boxed yourself in.... I had nothing to do with it


No sir I never said that...you assumed thats what I ment. You know what they say about that correct? 

No matter how you try to twist it up...I NEVER WROTE THAT.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

RealCraftsMan said:


> No sir I never said that...you assumed thats what I ment. You know what they say about that correct?
> 
> No matter how you try to twist it up...I NEVER WROTE THAT.


Then somebody is using your account or you got a duel personality... because I never altered it .... its in its original form...


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Then somebody is using your account or you got a duel personality... because I never altered it .... its in its original form...


You made a claim I said something I never said. 

Originally Posted by *RealCraftsMan*  
_Well you have to know english to read plumbing codes so there ya go......._


Quote:
Originally Posted by *OldSchool*  
_Since when is the rough-in dimension from the back wall of the toilet code...

Sent from my miniature laptop_


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Well the subject of the thread is and was at the time rough dimension of the WC from the back wall...

If you were not on subject then your post was meaningless

Sent from my miniature laptop


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

I did new construction for many years. I did 200 a year for 15 years with my company. Some things that are unknown to us. Is this a wood frame home if so where are the floor joices? There were many times where the carpenter did not lay out the floor joices correctly and it is right in the middle of a 12 inch rough. Your choices are 14 or 10 inch rough. The choice made is what is available at the supply house. There were many times I needed to use a direct waste and overflow due to the location of the joices for tubs. I am not reframing a house for future work. You do what is easy for every person involved and the most cost effective.

Isn’t it our responsibility to make sure we are pricing the correct solution?


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Indie said:


> I'm sure at some point all of us have done that. People look at me weird when I throw the tape down just to make sure.
> 
> How many plumbers carry a tape on them at all times?


 

Measure your shoe and have an approximate length. I wear 10 ½ which equals 12 inches in length no need for a tape to measure how far from a finished wall.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

Why not use an offset flange? That will give you two inches


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

NYC Plumber said:


> Why not use an offset flange? That will give you two inches


 







The PVC closet flanges I use give you 1 1/2".

Are you referring to a cast iron flange?


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

Off-set flanges are against code here.


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## NYC Plumber (May 4, 2011)

http://www.plumbest.com/specsheets/c43441.pdf

Yeah heres one in cast iron. Im pretty sure you can get 2" brass offset also. No pvc allowed here.
Actually got punched out on a job for plastic nipple on wall hung wc carrier, they want galvanized or cast iron nipple, because technically plastic is not approved material. Even though they usally let it go.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

pdxplumber said:


> I just sold two new Toto drakes the other day. I had been out to the job for a toilet problem and recommended replacement. They kind of flinched at the price. They called me back a week or so later and wanted the toilets replaced. The house was built in 2006, so I didn't expect any surprises. The job was scheduled for Friday afternoon. I was looking forward to an easy job to wrap up the week. I don't get to work in new houses very often so I was happy to have a simple job for once. No warped floors, stripped out shut offs or old lead flanges to deal with.
> I was flying along, unpacked the toilets and built them in the garage. Vac out and pull the existing toilets, go to set the first toilet and find out the flange is roughed in at 9 1/2"!!!! Second toilet at 9 1/4"..Good afternoon turned bad. Are they not handing out measuring tapes to apprentices any more? I know low bid gets the job but WTF? Luckily the supply house had two 10" rough bowls that squeaked in, but my quick job turned into an afternoon long pain in the a**. I blame the "git er done" residential sweatpants and running shoe new construction guys. At least I won't run out of work.


Let me play Devil's Advocate for a second. Did you not check to make sure what you needed were 12" rough toilets? Obviously someone screwed the pooch when the house was built, but I have learned to Never, Never, did I mention Never assume anything. Replacing a toilet: 1) flush to make sure you don't get the Sincha call-back because customers never lie ( I'm sorry, mis-speak ). 2) always measure center of flange because of the very issue you're having. Replacing sink or sink faucet: 1) test drainage before ya do replacement because a drain has never been slow until the plumber worked on the darned sink. We, as tradespeople, cannot assume that anyone else has done or does their job properly, especially in this age of, as alot of the posters to this forum state, Hacks, Nacho's, etc.. Sorry about yer issue but learn from it, as we all do, and make sure to not let it happen to you again.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

mccmech said:


> Let me play Devil's Advocate for a second. Did you not check to make sure what you needed were 12" rough toilets? Obviously someone screwed the pooch when the house was built, but I have learned to Never, Never, did I mention Never assume anything. Replacing a toilet: 1) flush to make sure you don't get the Sincha call-back because customers never lie ( I'm sorry, mis-speak ). 2) always measure center of flange because of the very issue you're having. Replacing sink or sink faucet: 1) test drainage before ya do replacement because a drain has never been slow until the plumber worked on the darned sink. We, as tradespeople, cannot assume that anyone else has done or does their job properly, especially in this age of, as alot of the posters to this forum state, Hacks, Nacho's, etc.. Sorry about yer issue but learn from it, as we all do, and make sure to not let it happen to you again.


"Sincha callback"? Please explain MCM.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

RealCraftsMan said:


> I agree with you one this one but the name thing is a bit much...my brothers name is Paco. He has a masters degree and teaches highschool math, he's a US Citz and puts up with way more crap than we ever will.


Then why would you state that a person has to know English to read plumbing codes " So there ya go". ? You can't have it both ways brother. If ya want to post your own snappy little quips then don't get twisted up when someone else does the same. For what it's worth, so much signage, installation & owners manuals are now printed in so many languages, a person can hardly even find the English section.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

U666A said:


> "Sincha callback"? Please explain MCM.


My fixture always drained great, but "sincha" were here & worked on it it's been acting up. My water pressure has always been good, but sincha were here & replaced my toilet, now I have really bad pressure at my kitchen sink.


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## RealCraftsMan (Dec 27, 2011)

mccmech said:


> Then why would you state that a person has to know English to read plumbing codes " So there ya go". ? You can't have it both ways brother. If ya want to post your own snappy little quips then don't get twisted up when someone else does the same. For what it's worth, so much signage, installation & owners manuals are now printed in so many languages, a person can hardly even find the English section.


Please try to use a little logic in this. Its a bit offensive when people call all of my race paco or nacho....I mean it gets old. So what does that have to do with reading English?

If you don't see a problem with someone calling a Hispanic "Nacho" we have a problem.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> Since when is the rough-in dimension from the back wall of the toilet code...
> 
> Sent from my miniature laptop


I don't believe it is, however, all apprentices are to be under direct supervision of at least a Journeyman, who, as a matter of his/her training would have been taught that measurement.


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

mccmech said:


> I don't believe it is, however, all apprentices are to be under direct supervision of at least a Journeyman, who, as a matter of his/her training would have been taught that measurement.


But it is still not code... it is manufactures rough-in dimensions....

Like a few others have said .... some times there is a reason behind using another manufactures rough-in dimensions...

Lots of times there is floor joist in the way... or are you one of those guys that cuts them out ?


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

OldSchool said:


> But it is still not code... it is manufactures rough-in dimensions....
> 
> Like a few others have said .... some times there is a reason behind using another manufactures rough-in dimensions...
> 
> ...


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## OldSchool (Jan 30, 2010)

Tommy plumber said:


> OldSchool said:
> 
> 
> > But it is still not code... it is manufactures rough-in dimensions....
> ...


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

RealCraftsMan said:


> Please try to use a little logic in this. Its a bit offensive when people call all of my race paco or nacho....I mean it gets old. So what does that have to do with reading English?
> 
> If you don't see a problem with someone calling a Hispanic "Nacho" we have a problem.


1) I do have a problem with ethnic slurs. You have never read one or will read one from me. 2) My point was why did you have to take a shot at having to know English, especially with the " so there ya go " comment. i think this country goes above & beyond to accomodate immigrants, be they legal or illegal. And as far as government literature goes, it can be obtained in different languages as well as in braille, so "there ya go". Ignorance of a law/code is no excuse for violating it. Therefore your comment came off as a wise-crack, at least to me.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

coast to coast said:


> Learned this as an apprentice doing a favor for a friend of the family . Picked up the American standard sliver Gray 12" rough in on Friday went to their house Saturday figured I'd be in and out easy . **** . Ended up resetting the old one explaining that they need a 10" rough in and left and yes I went to the house and had an opportunity to find out before that Saturday but didn't know any better . For the rest of the weekend that WC sat in my apartment living room and all I could think was if they don't take it back my broke apprentice ass is going to be stuck with a special order sliver gray wc . Well they took it back thank f/'c . Lesson learned and if they hadn't I looked at it as a lesson as it was and givin the opportunity always check before u show up to replace a wc . I hope u didn't charge for the extra running around u had to do .


dude, I just did a bathroom re-model for Sears within the last month. Bathroom was slab-on-grade with at least 10" drop from flange to off-set. Sears sent out a 12" rough toilet & it wouldn't fit. Turns out the flange center was 10 1/2" from finished wall to center. I can't speak to why this wasn't noted on the site-visit. I do know that the 1st master plumber I served under was a real prick ( aside from being my brother ) and he made damn sure I understood to always check stuff & assume noone else has ever done their job correctly. That philosophy will cover yer ass, plus it leads to many pleasant surprises when ya find jobs that were actually done properly.


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## mccmech (Jul 6, 2011)

OldSchool said:


> But it is still not code... it is manufactures rough-in dimensions....
> 
> Like a few others have said .... some times there is a reason behind using another manufactures rough-in dimensions...
> 
> Lots of times there is floor joist in the way... or are you one of those guys that cuts them out ?


Firstly you're right that it is the manufacturers' rough-in dimensions. My training, however, has taught me that the industry standard for w/c rough-ins is usually 10, 12 or 14 inch rough. That said I would think someone would measure flange center on any toilet replacement since you have a 1 in 3 shot at which toilet is needed ( even though the most common is 12" rough ). Secondly, yea, I am one of those guys who cuts them out ( during construction ). Right after I have conversation with the carpenter discussing the conflict & need to have the bay boxed out to allow for my cutting of the floor joist. I would never have need to cut a floor joist out on a service call because I would measure my flange center before I purchase the replacement toilet.


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## victoryplbaz (May 19, 2012)

Kinda hard to have a floor beem in the way when 99% of the home built here are on grade slab! Guess the cement poured could get in the way..HAHAHAHA!!!


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## DesertOkie (Jul 15, 2011)

I thought you TX guys would be harder on unlicensed guys since it's such a PITA to get there. 

I agree that those crappy guys are our future bread and butter. You were lucky the flange was glued in at any length from the wall.


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## pdxplumber (Nov 21, 2009)

To everybody who suggested it was my fault for not checking the rough in measurements before bringing out the toilets and pre-building them in the garage, no sh*t. I can't blame my customer and I don't have an apprentice yet. I was just venting. And floor joist my ass, one toilet I can see, but both toilets?
And enough with all the racial crap. A hack is a hack, I don't care what color they are.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

I always rough in my closet at 13" ruff... why is it so hard to put that in the code books instead of all those admistration(sp) goopy shxts in page after page??


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## Titan Plumbing (Oct 8, 2009)

DesertOkie said:


> I thought you TX guys would be harder on unlicensed guys since it's such a PITA to get there.
> 
> I agree that those crappy guys are our future bread and butter. You were lucky the flange was glued in at any length from the wall.


If the TSBPE doesn't care to do anything to these folks, I can't see wasting my time getting my panties all wrapped around the boys because of it.

If I see a violation I will report it, but in all actuality it doesn't do much good...just costs me minutes on my phone.


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## drtyhands (Aug 16, 2008)

rjbphd said:


> I always rough in my closet at 13" ruff... why is it so hard to put that in the code books instead of all those admistration(sp) goopy shxts in page after page??


Interesting concept.
Since as long as I know the standard has been twelve inches.
Put the tracts at 12.5 to allow for errors in haste
Lately I've been running into the new generation of builder that specifies he wants 13.
Writing a code would be a little funky.


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## pilot light (Apr 21, 2012)

One journeyman and 30 apprentices!:thumbup:


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

Duravit and Toto, among others, have models that rough in at 6 to 9 inches off finished wall and use a floor mounted adapter to connect to the China itself, it allows them to offer models that are either floor or wall outlet. That being said I am a big fan of concealed tank wall hung toilets, I have a Duravit in my master bath.

There is no magical standard rough in.


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## piper1 (Dec 16, 2011)

mccmech said:


> My fixture always drained great, but "sincha" were here & worked on it it's been acting up. My water pressure has always been good, but sincha were here & replaced my toilet, now I have really bad pressure at my kitchen sink.


 i like that sincha. thats great:laughing:


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## jredman45 (Mar 30, 2012)

Can't we all just blame the carpenters for putting floor joists in our way! Also putting studs in the center where you need to put tub/shower valves.


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## Pipecommandor (Apr 18, 2011)

2-10" rough bowls ???
In my neck of the woods, the dimension of the bowl does not change, only the depth of the tank... :blink:


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

Pipecommandor said:


> 2-10" rough bowls ???
> In my neck of the woods, the dimension of the bowl does not change, only the depth of the tank... :blink:


Sounds like you're buying American Standard WC's.


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

Widdershins said:


> Sounds like you're buying American Standard WC's.


I've installed Briggs and a new to me line called contrac that only the tank changes . Liked the Briggs better because the tank was still insulated .


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## Widdershins (Feb 5, 2011)

coast to coast said:


> I've installed Briggs and a new to me line called contrac that only the tank changes . Liked the Briggs better because the tank was still insulated .


I was only familiar with the American Standard line -- It's good to know there are other options available.


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## coast to coast (Feb 17, 2012)

pdxplumber said:


> To everybody who suggested it was my fault for not checking the rough in measurements before bringing out the toilets and pre-building them in the garage, no sh*t. I can't blame my customer and I don't have an apprentice yet. I was just venting. And floor joist my ass, one toilet I can see, but both toilets?
> And enough with all the racial crap. A hack is a hack, I don't care what color they are.


Hey u learned a valuable lesson so as I mentioned it was a good day in a glass half full kind of way . Now I don't know how much new home construction you've done but I've seen houses were every wc land nod a joist and then to add insult to injury interior drainage walls landed on joist also or top plates . Blame the carpenters yes and the general for not doing his job but nothing surprises me as far as the lack o concern in doing a good job taking pride In What u do . If I was a carpenter I'd take pride in know that say the plumber came in and did his job and not 1 wc landed on a joist .


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

coast to coast said:


> Hey u learned a valuable lesson so as I mentioned it was a good day in a glass half full kind of way . Now I don't know how much new home construction you've done but I've seen houses were every wc land nod a joist and then to add insult to injury interior drainage walls landed on joist also or top plates . Blame the carpenters yes and the general for not doing his job but nothing surprises me as far as the lack o concern in doing a good job taking pride In What u do . If I was a carpenter I'd take pride in know that say the plumber came in and did his job and not 1 wc landed on a joist .


I agree that its the builders, or GC fault, not the carpenter, most of the time, on new const. projects, if joist is in the way of water closet drain or under a wall. Why? Because walls get moved fixtures get relocated, prints are off, ect..., & then when it is discovered a joist is in the way, the builder or GC is too much of a cheap a$$,to pay to have the carpenter header it off properly, or build ladders under walls. And I think I almost got shot one time by a builder, for suggesting he put a 2X6 wall in the bathroom, for the plumbing wall. Thats why I don't do new const. anymore. Everything is done fast, cheap, & assembly line like. Love new custom homes, where you got an owner that cares about something other than what your charging. But those are far & few in between these days.

And as far as those American Standard toilets, that 14" rough in toilet tank, has got to be the ugliest thing on the market. Looks like a toilet on steroids, & looks like a screw up, cuz all they did was make the tank, ultra fat. All in the name of being able to make their bowls universal. Well most of the time, if I got a 14" rough drain, I want a bowl that will move it closer to the back wall, & give me more room in front. I don't want a balooned out tank, to fill up the space in back. And the American Standard 10" rough tank, looks like they put it in a trash compactor, & made it tall & skinny. Just not quite as ugly as their 14" tank, but is does run a close 2nd. Those tanks are a joke at best. Those engineers must of had big time HUTA, when they designed, or came up with that concept.:yes: (In case you don't know, HUTA stands for "Head Up Thy A$$).

Toto makes that offset fitting too, for 10", or 14" rough ins, on their higher end toilets, that are enclosed type. But you gotta make sure the water supply, is atleast 8" over, or more, from center of drain.


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## Richard Hilliard (Apr 10, 2010)

Pipecommandor said:


> 2-10" rough bowls ???
> In my neck of the woods, the dimension of the bowl does not change, only the depth of the tank... :blink:


During the 70's the bowls were different for a 10,12,14 inch rough.Then someone thought about it and started to alter the holes in the tank.


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## Dmaz (Jan 11, 2011)

We're building condo apartment buildings right now, and in a couple suites it's impossible to get a 12" rough-in because of structural beams in the way. You put it as close as you can get without it looking ridiculous. As for the concrete slab, if you go off the prints and put the drain in the right place, but the framer puts the wall in the wrong place, that screws things up. 

Framers with imperial tapes laying out based off of metric prints means the walls can be 3 or 4" off over 100'.


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