# My house.. switching from forced to boiler?



## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

My house currently has a power vent forced air furnace. It’s working, but I believe the capacitor on the blower motor is almost shot. Easy fix if it is, but I’ve been toying with the idea of having a boiler installed. So I have a few stupid questions. 

My house was built in 1900, two stories, second floor is two bedrooms, both with a drop ceilings below. “Michigan” basement with the majority of it being crawl space, some of which is too tight to crawl in access.

I’ve seen raident heat run between everyother joist. Will this work in in a crawl? Or will I be wasting money? I do plan on insulating the skirt of the house. Is it wrong to run it that way in enclosed, between floors?

What will the equipment cost be? roughly of course, for a boiler and say ~260’ of slant fin, 40’ of register and leads up and down. I’m guessing over kill here on material.

I know anything can be done, but is this a worthwhile adventure and something I should persue cost wise? I don’t want to spend a fortune, but I like raident more than forced. 

Also, are there ng power vent boilers. I assume so, but I’m a drain cleaner that dabbles in plumbing for my Master.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

Keep forced air if you need a/c where you are. If you have a good volt meter I can tell you how to check the run cap.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

****! Didn’t think about central air! I do work for some grow houses that have lights for heat in the winter but have a/c for summer. Keep the ducts... and what kind of handler.


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## Debo22 (Feb 15, 2015)

OpenSights said:


> ****! Didn’t think about central air! I do work for some grow houses that have lights for heat in the winter but have a/c for summer. Keep the ducts... and what kind of handler.


Keep what you have , use forced air heat to blast the chill off and radiant heat to maintain temp with comfort. Just an idea since you need the forced air conditioning.


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## MACPLUMB777 (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes they are N.G. Boilers but weather it would be cost effective to change over to Radiant I can't say but if you do go that way be sure to add to your bathrooms, nothing like stepping out of Shower on a warm tile floor
and then pull a warm towel off of a Heated towel rack !


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

Look into cast iron baseboard radiator. . Second best heat to have.. less invasive to the home structure 

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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Under floor mounted over a crawl will have massive heat loss. You would need to insulate below the loops and seal under the floor joists to have an affect.

You could offset the standard forced air with an electric radiant mounted on top of subfloor and under finished floor. Each room will have a wall stat. Toasty on the feet.

https://www.warmyourfloor.com/radiant-floor-heating.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=WYF.com%20-%20General%20-%20Experiment&utm_term=%2Belectric%20%2Bradiant%20%2Bfloor%20%2Bheat&utm_content=Electric%20Floor%20Heat%20-%20Broad

https://www.thermosoft.com/en-US/radiant-under-floor-heating/products?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**LP%20-%20NonTM%20-%20Floor%20-%20General%20-%20HV%20-%20PC&utm_term=%2BElectric%20%2BFloor%20%2BHeating&utm_content=Electric%20Floor%20Heating

Personally boilers take to long to heat and shut down. Not good for instant needs. Of course any AC your going to need to use current duct work.

Either way with any crawl you really need to insulate the subfloor.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

I kinda want to stay away from electric heat, over power company is most expensive company around. How efficient are they?

My kitchen and to-be laundry room is going to get new flooring once I turn a bedroom into a bathroom. Living room, dining room and both bedrooms upstairs are hardwood. Currently the living room and dining room are carpeted for insulation because of the crawl. 

Guess I have some pondering to do.

Thanks for all the help and advice!


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

Well raw power draw is a gimme. More is going to depend on the actual heat loss.

Here is a good article on the subject.>>> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/underloor-radiant-heating/

Dollar for dollar I always understood that natural gas comes in first, after that as you said you would really need to break down the cost per therm from Propane to electric based on your area.


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## rjbphd (Feb 5, 2010)

GAN said:


> Under floor mounted over a crawl will have massive heat loss. You would need to insulate below the loops and seal under the floor joists to have an affect.
> 
> You could offset the standard forced air with an electric radiant mounted on top of subfloor and under finished floor. Each room will have a wall stat. Toasty on the feet.
> 
> ...


Shown you never had hydronic heat.. please refrain from making comments on same.

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## indyjim (Apr 29, 2017)

I have piped one house with a crawl space in radiant. It is very labor intensive, and you have to pan the joists with insulation, but it works wonderfully. They make a radiant coil for an air handler for a quick warm up. The whole system was from uponor, with a triangle tube boiler. 


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

rjbphd said:


> Shown you never had hydronic heat.. please refrain from making comments on same.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


Don't have, have installed. No way hydronic will heat as fast as forced air nor capable of cooling down as fast. Not as bad as steam but still differences.

Be more specific if your going to suggest some "refrain" from comments.
http://www.hydronicheating.net/hydronic-vs-gfa.html

Total "ELECTRIC" floor mounted systems are the energy hogs compared to others. Which is what "I" linked to. 

Any system mounted over a crawl will have heat loss in not insulated over. Your views?

Let me make a suggestion. Before you attempt to criticize someone attempt to clarify systems.

Any good management when doing so deals directly with people, not playing games and attempting to embarrass in open meeting or forum.

Now if you wish to debate specifics pleas outline them instead of making generalization.

Had you looked at my links, you would have seen.


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## 5onthefloor (Sep 13, 2017)

...









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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

More info......

https://www.radiant-floor-heating.com/hydronic-or-electric-heat/cost-comparison/

https://www.heatermag.com/best-radiant-floor-heating-reviews/

https://www.radiant-floor-heating.com/hydronic-or-electric-heat/

No links or sources?


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## Turd Herder (Jun 4, 2010)

I have installed several under floor (between the joist) systems and hundreds of other hydronic systems.. I would never install that type of system in my own home. They tend to be overly expensive to install, costly to operate, have slow response times, and invite rodent infestation. If you asked me about a system installed above the subfloor or with baseboards, I would give you a different answer.


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## Dtmack87 (Dec 1, 2017)

Not a big fan of under floor radiant heat. As noted above, unless properly insulated, your heat loss in a crawlspace, especially Michigan, will be significant. What is your btu load needed? Michigan is 40 btu's per square foot. You listed baseboards needed but how did you come up with the amount? 3/4 inch supply, feeding a baseboard will allow 67 feet of element. 1 inch will give 101 feet. exceed that, you will not properly heat your living space at the end of the runs.

If i was going to do this, i would probably look into a copper fin boiler (lochinvar solution series or Lochinvar Knight for 99% efficiency) or i would strongly consider a Navien tankless unit. You will also need tempering valves for the water temperature difference between radiant (140-150 max) and baseboard (170-190).

Also make sure you inject with glycol to protect the crawlspace lines. RPZ for back flow prevention.

Again, not a big fan of these systems if you currently have forced air. This will not be an economically comfortable transition. Most people i know usually transition the other way. This will be considerably more than a furnace.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

GAN said:


> More info......
> 
> https://www.radiant-floor-heating.com/hydronic-or-electric-heat/cost-comparison/
> 
> ...


At least you’re not a dick inspector and pull out the book and tell how you interpret the code, and because you’re a god you’re right no matter what.

I honestly am in over my head on this subject.

By the sounds of it radiaiant under floor/in crawl is bad juju to the wallet. Mrs. OpenSights loves the idea of radiant in floor heat in the new bathroom. I’m thinking tile and recirc pump. That I can do.


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## GAN (Jul 10, 2012)

OpenSights said:


> At least you’re not a dick inspector and pull out the book and tell how you interpret the code, and because you’re a god you’re right no matter what.
> 
> I honestly am in over my head on this subject.
> 
> By the sounds of it radiaiant under floor/in crawl is bad juju to the wallet. Mrs. OpenSights loves the idea of radiant in floor heat in the new bathroom. I’m thinking tile and recirc pump. That I can do.


If you have fluid based radiant heat already and can expand on it, costs are more in control. If you have none and need to start from scratch, read up on the electric pad systems I linked to a decent option.

I came up in the field, not a book baby. I never say I know all and am open for discussion. Only time I get resistant is when doubts are thrown in & I contact the ICC, ADA, State for interpretations or reference and research. If the others & I agree, a person has lost. I always try to state an opinion and not "insult" the other professional. Now if they start it up, so be it.


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## OpenSights (Mar 23, 2015)

My power vent heater is directly below that room and with a circ pump I can set what time it works. Room will still have forced air. The rest of the house base boards won’t work in the living room and apartment/office side.

I need to look more into the electric you posted, and talk with my electricia, panel is right below too. 

I’ve seen the downside of using a water heater as a heat source, but Mrs OpenSights wants me to keep the temp at about 165, well above code and my liking, but she does the dishes so it’s her call.

When this one craps out I’m actually thinking of going rheem marathon.


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