# engineered joists and toilet install



## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

What do you all do when you are doing a remodel and the spot you have to put the toilet is dead center with an engineered joist or just a general joist. I have had 2 jobs to bid in the last week with this same issue. In the past I have worked for a large company in new construction where they would accommodate us and move them to a side. This is not the case since the company that framed is long gone. Extra blocks or some sub that comes in after me. I just want my plumbing to complement what was already done properly.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

Pacificpipes said:


> What do you all do when you are doing a remodel and the spot you have to put the toilet is dead center with an engineered joist or just a general joist. I have had 2 jobs to bid in the last week with this same issue. In the past I have worked for a large company in new construction where they would accommodate us and move them to a side. This is not the case since the company that framed is long gone. Extra blocks or some sub that comes in after me. I just want my plumbing to complement what was already done properly.



You would need the GC and engineer my friend


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## plbgbiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Did the framer have the same set of plans as you?

Either way, I am sure he has a phone. Get him back on the job (and NOT on your dime).


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## Bill (Jun 17, 2008)

As a licensed building contractor I can say without doubt call the building inspector. He may or may not have a solution as for the engineered joist. The standard 2x joist? Simple. Scab a joist to the both sides of the toilet tben header off at the toilet with a double. Reason for a double is code states that any member which is or becomes a carrying member must be doubled. Use joist hangers. Another option would be tojust cut out the area needed to install the toilet then header back in then post down with 4x4 to a concrete pad 16" x 16" x 6" at all 4 corners.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

In your bid, after you describe your scope of work, start a bullet point paragraph with the title "Exclusions".
-Relocation of joists which interfere with the proposed piping layout must be done by others.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

Address an rfi on the issue to whomever you are bidding to. Put the ball in their lap (where it belongs). And, don't send in your proposal until you've received a response. Exclusions are a solution, but a written response is more concrete once the sawdust starts to fly.


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## AKdaplumba (Jan 12, 2010)

Tell them to either move the toilet or backframe for cutting the joist. In either case its not your problem to deal with.


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

just cut it out, install your plumbing and let them fail the framing inspection..


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

iantheplumber said:


> just cut it out, install your plumbing and let them fail the framing inspection..


Guess this is a joke.

Even if the joists are in the way of plumbing, it may be code compliant.

Can't just go crazy with the sawlsaw.


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

if the framer or the general contractor wont fix it and they dont want to move the location of the toilet, then i would just cut the joist out.. then they can fix it when they fail the framing inspection..

next time they will probably pay more attention to where the toilet sits...


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## younger-plumber (Sep 12, 2008)

iantheplumber said:


> if the framer or the general contractor wont fix it and they dont want to move the location of the toilet, then i would just cut the joist out.. then they can fix it when they fail the framing inspection..
> 
> next time they will probably pay more attention to where the toilet sits...


yea... not good advice lol


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

younger-plumber said:


> yea... not good advice lol


Indeed 

He also believes quality plumbing install is service free. 

Guess cutting engineered joists is quality..


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

you guys are jumping down my throat for making a few jokes...

maybe should go back to jumping on the OP for not knowing what to do when a floor joist is in the location of the toilet....


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

usually when this happened i would just drill out the top of the joist and install flange and 90 and continue plumbing.. the framers would come back and fix it...

im not sure why this wouldnt be the legit thing to do..


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

half of the time the spread on the two joists outside of the one affected is within the max spread distance any ways.. so even if you did completely cut it out, you are still within code..

the framer should be able to figure that out..


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## Letterrip (Jul 28, 2013)

Pardon the ignorance of a dumb service plumber. Aren't engineered joists a complete different animal than standard 2xwhatever joists? Isn't altering them in any way without the engineers approval a big no-no?


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## Plumberman (Jul 7, 2008)

Letterrip said:


> Pardon the ignorance of a dumb service plumber. Aren't engineered joists a complete different animal than standard 2xwhatever joists? Isn't altering them in any way without the engineers approval a big no-no?


Yep


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## love2surf927 (Dec 22, 2011)

Letterrip said:


> Pardon the ignorance of a dumb service plumber. Aren't engineered joists a complete different animal than standard 2xwhatever joists? Isn't altering them in any way without the engineers approval a big no-no?


The engineered joists will have a handout that tells you where and how big you can make you notches.


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## RealLivePlumber (Jun 22, 2008)

You can't touch the top and bottom chord. 

Most tji manufacturers allow up to a 3" offset in the tji, on center.

All the framers had to do was read the blueprint.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

The OP's question was how to deal with layout conflicts before the job starts. In other words, he's trying to figure out how to price a job where there are structural issues. On a add/alt where there isn't a lot of labor involved, a conflict like this that isn't dealt with before hand is a sure recipe for an unprofitable job.

TJI's can be cut or drilled between the webbing if one conforms to the manufacture's allowances for that particular joist size. Curiously, different manufacturer's can have different allowances for the same size TJI.
Trus Joists can also be headed out, not unlike standard joists.


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## MTDUNN (Oct 9, 2011)

I think the question was answered. 

Am RFI followed by a signed change order


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## iantheplumber (Sep 8, 2013)

you can drill all sorts of holes in tji floor joists...


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## Pacificpipes (Oct 1, 2013)

Yes my question has been answered thank you everyone.


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## topher415 (Nov 13, 2013)

Pacificpipes said:


> What do you all do when you are doing a remodel and the spot you have to put the toilet is dead center with an engineered joist or just a general joist. I have had 2 jobs to bid in the last week with this same issue. In the past I have worked for a large company in new construction where they would accommodate us and move them to a side. This is not the case since the company that framed is long gone. Extra blocks or some sub that comes in after me. I just want my plumbing to complement what was already done properly.


Either get gc to head off the joist or move the toilet. Usually the joist gets headed off.


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