# water stub outs



## moonapprentice (Aug 23, 2012)

Do you rough water stub outs above or below drain and why. Any reason why one would be better than another?


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## bct p&h (Jan 19, 2013)

Water always above the drain. Why would you want to block the stops with the trap if you aren't dead on straight with your drain rough?


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## gardon (Apr 24, 2013)

moonapprentice said:


> Do you rough water stub outs above or below drain and why. Any reason why one would be better than another?


I have always put them above the drain, and everyone I've worked with or taught that way has, say a normal lav, waters set 21" is that code? I do not of a code that tells you the height of water lines for a lav, but it looks better and they are out of the way


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## Mr-Green (Apr 29, 2013)

Above, its just the way I've been trained. I'm sure there is a reason though.


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## Chadillac80 (Dec 22, 2012)

Above with an 8" spread from center of drain. You would have to always carry some long supply lines if they we're all below. Plus the trap gets in the way installed below.


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## Tommy plumber (Feb 19, 2010)

I always rough-in the water lines higher than the drain. The water stub-outs are 21" & the drain is usually around 17" or 18". Unless the drain is for a slop sink (utility sink) like in the garage. Then the drain gets roughed-in at around 10"-12".


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## Plumb Bob (Mar 9, 2011)

20" - 21" for lav drain, 23" - 24" for lav water stub outs. Kitchen around 15" for drain and 1 hot stub @ around 12" and another @ 20", same with cold.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

Jeeez o pete. Those are the lamest reasons I've heard. Cause I was taught to........What the heck is wrong with our trade. We still set stub outs for old old old rough dimentions BEFORE we were required to install shutoffs. 

Come on why would you put a shut off up high so it's hard to access or hard to hook up to.

No code saying where it has to go so lets put it in a place thats a pain in the neck to get to. WHY because somebody was taught by somebody that didn't know. 

O.K. I took 3 deep breaths, I have calmed down and i'm still posting this


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## phishfood (Nov 18, 2012)

Wherever it makes the most sense for the particular situation.


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## gardon (Apr 24, 2013)

saysflushable said:


> Jeeez o pete. Those are the lamest reasons I've heard. Cause I was taught to........What the heck is wrong with our trade. We still set stub outs for old old old rough dimentions BEFORE we were required to install shutoffs.
> 
> Come on why would you put a shut off up high so it's hard to access or hard to hook up to.
> 
> ...


They are up out of the way, and rarely need to be accessed, it looks a lot better to not see them, shorter supply's, and if you want to put them lower, and have an eye sore go for it! :thumbup:


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

gardon said:


> They are up out of the way, and rarely need to be accessed, it looks a lot better to not see them, shorter supply's, and if you want to put them lower, and have an eye sore go for it! :thumbup:


See at least you have a reason. and with a garbage disposal shockstop, instahot, dishwasher drain and supply and the beutiful tubular pvc traps I do worry about low shut offs being an eyesore. Same under an enclosed lav vanity. heck those ugly low stub outs just look out of place with the box of tampons roles of toilet paper and the curling iron.


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## saysflushable (Jun 15, 2009)

when I was an apprentice I was taught to bring the supplies out over the drain. However we never ran water lines on outside walls for the biggest builder in our area per there rule. I still never run water on outside walls. I have had to fix to many that have froze. well anyhow most of our supplies came up through the floor of the cabinet and we would put the shutoffs at any height. It made no sence to me, if they came out of the wall they had to be above the drain because by golly thats the way we do it but if they came up through the floor it didn't matter.


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## KCplumber (Dec 31, 2009)

saysflushable said:


> when I was an apprentice I was taught to bring the supplies out over the drain. However we never ran water lines on outside walls for the biggest builder in our area per there rule. I still never run water on outside walls. I have had to fix to many that have froze. well anyhow most of our supplies came up through the floor of the cabinet and we would put the shutoffs at any height. It made no sence to me, if they came out of the wall they had to be above the drain because by golly thats the way we do it but if they came up through the floor it didn't matter.


True Dat


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## gardon (Apr 24, 2013)

saysflushable said:


> when I was an apprentice I was taught to bring the supplies out over the drain. However we never ran water lines on outside walls for the biggest builder in our area per there rule. I still never run water on outside walls. I have had to fix to many that have froze. well anyhow most of our supplies came up through the floor of the cabinet and we would put the shutoffs at any height. It made no sence to me, if they came out of the wall they had to be above the drain because by golly thats the way we do it but if they came up through the floor it didn't matter.


Outside wall, if you live in a place where it freeze's at sometime of year always come up through the bottom of cabinet, or floor. If you leave in a warm all year climate, i would choose wall every time.


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## gardon (Apr 24, 2013)

through the cabinet floor is a cold weather choice (where i live) if in an outside wall


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

When I put a wall hung lav with a Ada offset tail piece in I off set the drain 3" to the left Then 6" to the rite I put the cold. And the hot Stubbs out above it that way the trap isn't I front of the stops and the trap and stop gaurd goes on easy. Looks funny when you rough in walls but works great. I got tired of fighting the trap guards as an app. And the first job I ran I did it this way. The other guys said you can't do that. I said. It's my job put it in like I said. It will work. And it did !!!!


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

A easy way is to keep the drain at 21in and elevate the water to 24 in above the floor. The drain is offset 3in from centerline and water is 8in spread and centered on the centerline of the fixture. The water being ruffed in higher is one sanitary and two simply because the water being two pipes it is less constrictive to have them on top.


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> A easy way is to keep the drain at 21in and elevate the water to 24 in above the floor. The drain is offset 3in from centerline and water is 8in spread and centered on the centerline of the fixture. The water being ruffed in higher is one sanitary and two simply because the water being two pipes it is less constrictive to have them on top.



4 inch spread on lav cause of 4 inch spread on tap. 8 inch spread on kitchen sink cause 8" spread on taps . Now a days everything comes mono hole and usually has their own supply tubes . Reason for putting supplies on top is for shorter supply tubes equals less money .

Although we're i live none of this counts and it is a free for all abortion .


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

Fast fry said:


> 4 inch spread on lav cause of 4 inch spread on tap. 8 inch spread on kitchen sink cause 8" spread on taps . Now a days everything comes mono hole and usually has their own supply tubes . Reason for putting supplies on top is for shorter supply tubes equals less money .
> 
> Although we're i live none of this counts and it is a free for all abortion .


4in spread is to close your cutters won't go all the way around. I assume that people still have fixture Ruffin books? Almost every Ruffin will give you 8in center to center on Ruffin of the water and the water height is normally were you can use 12in supply's .


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## Fast fry (May 19, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> 4in spread is to close your cutters won't go all the way around. I assume that people still have fixture Ruffin books? Almost every Ruffin will give you 8in center to center on Ruffin of the water and the water height is normally were you can use 12in supply's .


Ya sorry . I actually traded my number 2 ridged pipe threading machine cutters for something smaller.


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## shakeyglenn68 (Dec 29, 2010)

TX MECH PLUMBER said:


> When I put a wall hung lav with a Ada offset tail piece in I off set the drain 3" to the left Then 6" to the rite I put the cold. And the hot Stubbs out above it that way the trap isn't I front of the stops and the trap and stop gaurd goes on easy. Looks funny when you rough in walls but works great. I got tired of fighting the trap guards as an app. And the first job I ran I did it this way. The other guys said you can't do that. I said. It's my job put it in like I said. It will work. And it did !!!!


 I do my ADA wall hung the same. Pedelstal lavs with drain centered at 21" from floor cold 3" above drain hot 12" below. when I set pedestal I use a 18" on cold wrapping excess around ptrap drain, & 30" on hot again wrapping any excess around ptrap. everything accessable and out of sight. All other lavs at 21" waters at 8" spread 2" above stub out (Unless requested by builder to change it).

Last job I did this way had a unplanned bathroom upstairs (HO throw in) HO wanted pedelstal on outter wall which set on a doubled lam-beam, Drain came out thru floor 2" then 45 offset into wall. HO & builder wanted me to put into wall. I stated unless you have an arcitech sign off on me knotching the lam-beams and releasing my boss from any and all legalities due to such knotching then its staying! They had a framer knotch it out and rerun the drain, I took pictures as the framer did so & my boss has the pictures for safe keeping!


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## redbeardplumber (Dec 4, 2012)

shakeyglenn68 said:


> I do my ADA wall hung the same. Pedelstal lavs with drain centered at 21" from floor cold 3" above drain hot 12" below. when I set pedestal I use a 18" on cold wrapping excess around ptrap drain, & 30" on hot again wrapping any excess around ptrap. everything accessable and out of sight. All other lavs at 21" waters at 8" spread 2" above stub out (Unless requested by builder to change it).
> 
> Last job I did this way had a unplanned bathroom upstairs (HO throw in) HO wanted pedelstal on outter wall which set on a doubled lam-beam, Drain came out thru floor 2" then 45 offset into wall. HO & builder wanted me to put into wall. I stated unless you have an arcitech sign off on me knotching the lam-beams and releasing my boss from any and all legalities due to such knotching then its staying! They had a framer knotch it out and rerun the drain, I took pictures as the framer did so & my boss has the pictures for safe keeping!


Not sure I understand your waterlines for pedistals. Wrapping them around the ptrap.???huh


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## germanplumber (Sep 13, 2011)

I put them through the floor where they is no other option(i.e. outside wall, joist under the wall, or sizeof cabinet not know at time cause homeowners aren't the brightest) also I just throw 2 inch below lavs 8 inch spreads always and on pedestals (the worst plumbing fixture ever made) is the only time I rough in above so they are hidden. My reason for below besides being fat and lazy(least I'm honest lol) is ease of service and work ability in my mind. But this is my opinion.:thumbsup:


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## Don The Plumber (Feb 14, 2010)

saysflushable said:


> See at least you have a reason. and with a garbage disposal shockstop, instahot, dishwasher drain and supply and the beutiful tubular pvc traps I do worry about low shut offs being an eyesore. Same under an enclosed lav vanity. heck those ugly low stub outs just look out of place with the box of tampons roles of toilet paper and the curling iron.


 Very true..........until the H.O. says a few yrs later, I hate that vanity, can you take that out, & put me in a pedestal lav.  Or lately these customers have been putting in those mini slider storage bins, or just those plastic trays to hold stuff. They appreciate the valves that they need access to, every 4th or 5th president, are out of the way for their everyday use.

Just the other day, I roughed in a kitchen in a basement, & the GC wanted me to rough in all the plbg to the left side of cabinet, so they could install a slider unit for trash can.

Most of the time the customers don't think about it, but alot do notice the extra room, & appreciate it, when they go to put all their stuff in there. JMO.


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## newyorkcity (Nov 25, 2010)

*I don't care who you are*



Fast fry said:


> Ya sorry . I actually traded my number 2 ridged pipe threading machine cutters for something smaller.


Thats funny right there'


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I try to put them where the fixture submital reccomends. If I think of, or am suggested a better way I'll try that.

8" centers will not work if you've got a shroud going around the water and ptrap.


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

JWBII said:


> I try to put them where the fixture submital reccomends. If I think of, or am suggested a better way I'll try that.
> 
> 8" centers will not work if you've got a shroud going around the water and ptrap.


It will work but you have to increase the height of the water to 24in aff the waste stays at 21in aff. Any closer on height and it will collide .


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

wyrickmech said:


> It will work but you have to increase the height of the water to 24in aff the waste stays at 21in aff. Any closer on height and it will collide .


Yeah I wouldn"t try that myself if I had to put a mixing valve in as well which always seems to be the case when I have to do one 

Those measurements may work on a specific lav but they aren"t going to work on the lav I did. 21" and it'll be too low for the shroud to work.

Not that these numbers thrown around doesn"t work because I'm sure they do in whatever case it may be. But I'm pretty leary when someone just throws out a rough in measurement without looking at their submittals.


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## TX MECH PLUMBER (May 27, 2011)

Yes. A coworker. Stubbs all lavs out at 18. And I ask him arnt u goin to look at the rough in sheet he said no. Lavs always at 18. We had to put 36 tail piece extensions on cuz it was to low. Look at mill work. Then the submittal and stub out at correct hight


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## wyrickmech (Mar 16, 2013)

JWBII said:


> Yeah I wouldn"t try that myself if I had to put a mixing valve in as well which always seems to be the case when I have to do one
> 
> Those measurements may work on a specific lav but they aren"t going to work on the lav I did. 21" and it'll be too low for the shroud to work.
> 
> Not that these numbers thrown around doesn"t work because I'm sure they do in whatever case it may be. But I'm pretty leary when someone just throws out a rough in measurement without looking at their submittals.


I have installed hundreds of wall hung sinks with these measurements and about half have had either mixing valve or a auto faucet with a mixing valve. That is a true test of a Ruffin if it works over a hundred times it will work a thousand. 18 is a standard height for a sink with a 31in rim not to many sinks are at this height anymore because of Ada rules the drain would be 21 and the water would be 24 just by adding the 3in deference in the rim height. If the lab is a standard you would lower it back to standard height of 18 in drain and 21in water.


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

I just haven't tried it as much as you obviously.

Ada here on an adult lav is 34" aff......

I wasn't saying you were wrong by any means. I was saying however I can't tell you how many times I had a man come on one of my jobs, throw out measurements and it turn out wrong.


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## JWBII (Dec 23, 2012)

Hmm some how I double posted lol.


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