# Is this legal anywhere?



## 4Aces Plumbing

Attempted Island vent, but regardless of how it is plumbed below, I can't see this being legal...


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## BC73RS

Definitely not the way I would do it that's for sure, because it would fail.


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## CaberTosser

A tandem wet-vented island-vent? Not how I would roll, aside from it needing more cleanouts, of course. I love the electrical box located right underneath the most likely spot for a leak.


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## 4Aces Plumbing

Problem according to my local code is on an island vent one side is the drain, one side is the vent. My local code dictates I can`t drain into both sides. The plumbing at sub-floor level was way off for anything to be legal.


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## BC73RS

Here is how we had to do it before automatic air vents became legal, yea, more c/o's and a dedicated vent. God I got to get a camera, lol.


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## plbgbiz

We have to put one 90deg at the top pointing down with two 45's coming out to connect to the two vertical standpipes. This leaves the least possibility for debris to settle in the pipe after a backup. As others said, one side for drains, other side for vent. C.O. on both standpipes.


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## plbgbiz

Like this...


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## 4Aces Plumbing

Interesting. Your c/o is on the vent side? We have to have one in the drain side, and one in the foot vent located in the wall.


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## LEAD INGOT

I do it the same way Biz illustrated except I put cleanouts on both drain and vent, and in the vent that travels from below the sub floor up the adjacent wall. That first pic would be legal in Honduras.


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## wyrickmech

plbgbiz said:


> Like this...


wouldn't the vent going to the wall be a horizontal dry vent? I don't disagree with this configuration but a loop vent simply ties back into the drain with all waist on one side.


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## plbgbiz

wyrickmech said:


> wouldn't the vent going to the wall be a horizontal dry vent? I don't disagree with this configuration but a loop vent simply ties back into the drain with all waist on one side.


As LI said, that's a good reason for the c.o. on the vent.


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## Tommy plumber

With the original picture, both drains are being washed, which is the best way. With the picture that Plmg Biz posted, the vent is a dry vent which is not permitted by many codes. Dry venting is to be avoided.

With the original picture that has both sides acting as a wet drain/vent, I would like to see it piped in all 2". Should've just pur an AAV in the first place, it would've been easier than all that plastic and extra fittings.


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## Plumbus

UPC requires that the branch fitting for the horizontal below floor vent be a drainage fitting (wye and 1/8" bend), not a tee.


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## Leach713

Whys not an aav with a t and call it a day


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## wyrickmech

plbgbiz said:


> As LI said, that's a good reason for the c.o. on the vent.


yes I agree we are not allowed to put horizontal dry vents in here. I believe that is the best way other than a aav. AAVs have long been illegal here but in the past few years they let them use them still prefer the loop vent nothing to fail.


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## plumber tim

The apartment complex I just completed 2 weeks ago has bow vents or as some call it loop, island vents. In every apartment all 192 of them and every one was piped like plbg biz pic.


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## Master Mark

Leach713 said:


> Whys not an aav with a t and call it a day


 

you took the words right out of my mouth....

why not cut off both pipes as high as possible and just install 2 auto air vents....

so simple .... so easy.... and nobody gets hurt...:laughing:


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## plbgbiz

Because vent and drainage systems almost ALWAYS function more trouble free for longer without dependance on mechanical devices.


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## KoleckeINC

I have to put co's enabling the rodding of that horizontal vent. A slow drain would put waste all up in that.


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## Michaelcookplum

plbgbiz said:


> Like this...


problem with this pic is that it doesn't show the bulkhead built that the builder won't build. Studor vent all the way


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## Bill Henderson

4Aces Plumbing said:


> Interesting. Your c/o is on the vent side? We have to have one in the drain side, and one in the foot vent located in the wall.


The p-trap has unions on it. No need to waste another dandy. They are hard to come by on my truck.:laughing:


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## plumbdrum

plbgbiz said:


> Like this...


That is the correct installation other than the trap adapter on the street side of the trap and no clean out on the drain. AAV is the lazy man's way out of venting and the devise can fail. Not approved in my state, thank goodness .

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Dpeckplb

Loop vents are questionable here, they definatly need to be above flood level rim on the sink though.


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## Best Darn Sewer

plbgbiz said:


> Like this...


You know whats odd is that the IRC requires the line between the soil stack and vent stack to be flat instead of like you're pic which is how it should be w/ 2 - 45ºs and a 90º, IMO. Here's the difference:









I do not get why the IRC pefers flat vents especially since you can rarely get the needed 42" height for the revent. They also dont require a foot vent w/ a CO. Plain weird.


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## Best Darn Sewer

Tommy plumber said:


> With the original picture, both drains are being washed, which is the best way. With the picture that Plmg Biz posted, the vent is a dry vent which is not permitted by many codes. Dry venting is to be avoided.
> 
> With the original picture that has both sides acting as a wet drain/vent, I would like to see it piped in all 2". Should've just pur an AAV in the first place, it would've been easier than all that plastic and extra fittings.


We dont allow wet venting here. I know wet venting works well if the system is designed properly but why do you say dry venting should be avoided? If each fixture is independently vented than what issue can come about?


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## plumbdrum

Best Darn Sewer said:


> We dont allow wet venting here. I know wet venting works well if the system is designed properly but why do you say dry venting should be avoided? If each fixture is independently vented than what issue can come about?































This is out of my Ma code, 3 different ways

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## wyrickmech

Best Darn Sewer said:


> We dont allow wet venting here. I know wet venting works well if the system is designed properly but why do you say dry venting should be avoided? If each fixture is independently vented than what issue can come about?


 I do believe it is horizontal dry vents that they are referring to. Here we cannot have horizontal dry vents below the flood rim. The thought is they will collect trash and plug up where a wet vent is washed. I hate this rule on underground especially on restaurants where there is a lot of floor sinks and floor drains. The drain has to either pass a wall or be turned to a wall with a arm back to the trap.


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## sparky

4Aces Plumbing said:


> Attempted Island vent, but regardless of how it is plumbed below, I can't see this being legal...


Not legal but will work just the same


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## SSP

Easy & cheap to fix... As stated one riser shall be vent the other drain.. No need for AAV as they are $60 a pop for code approved ones, here anyways. 

Determine which is which by investigating inside the clean-outs . I'd use my M12 camera for this, and determine the depths to figure out was ran as a drain and which was designated for vent...

Eliminate a p-trap, cap TY serving it. 
Add TY above other p-trap and 90 the garb into it , so you have a single common trap serving kitchen sink & garb with a dry island vent. 2" is adequate to vent this properly, here in Alberta that would be the fastest/cheapest code approved fix

15-30 min maybe and problem solved. Oh, and total cost would be 2 fittings off the van & re-using a foot of pipe...


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## Will

Loop vents are problematic, they meet code but they suck. I'd prefer a over sized 3" pipe


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## love2surf927

Will said:


> Loop vents are problematic, they meet code but they suck. I'd prefer a over sized 3" pipe


What's problematic about them, they are very common here and don't seem to be anymore problematic than conventionally vented lines. They are problematic if they get backed up and there is no clean out at the base of the foot vent per code. Not arguing Will just curious as to your opinion.


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> Loop vents are problematic, they meet code but they suck. I'd prefer a over sized 3" pipe


Over sized drains come with their own set of problems as well.


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## love2surf927

plbgbiz said:


> Over sized drains come with their own set of problems as well.


Especially with all the lower flow fixtures, drain line carry is better in smaller pipe.


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## Will

love2surf927 said:


> What's problematic about them, they are very common here and don't seem to be anymore problematic than conventionally vented lines. They are problematic if they get backed up and there is no clean out at the base of the foot vent per code. Not arguing Will just curious as to your opinion.


 The vents become nothing more than a cesspool, that's why I don't like the. They become completely plugged. They are the sluggish draining system out there there, Run a oversized drain, it will out preform it. This is only for sinks


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## BC73RS

Will said:


> The vents become nothing more than a cesspool, that's why I don't like the. They become completely plugged. They are the sluggish draining system out there there, Run a oversized drain, it will out preform it. This is only for sinks


Agreed, that's why in our code we have to have strategically placed clean outs on the venting system too.
On island sinks that is.


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## wyrickmech

Will said:


> Loop vents are problematic, they meet code but they suck. I'd prefer a over sized 3" pipe


 I have been around a long time and have seen many a temps at a solution to island sinks. By far the loop vent in its most simple form is the least problematic solution. There is no parts to fail no dry vent to plug it just sucks air out of the drain. Do they fail, yes and no ,they may plug for some unknown reason but they never give up there seal and would never cause more than a slow drain. The oversized drain or what they call a self venting drain has merit on gray water but you add solids and you are asking for trouble. Water has a tendency to flow faster than solids and it will leave them behind in nice neat piles if the line is oversized.


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## love2surf927

Will said:


> The vents become nothing more than a cesspool, that's why I don't like the. They become completely plugged. They are the sluggish draining system out there there, Run a oversized drain, it will out preform it. This is only for sinks


Are you talking about this setup? How does the vent become clogged unless there is already a backup downstream? As mentioned that is why the co at base of foot vent is important.


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## BC73RS

Ah, I was waiting for this.
Hypothetically speaking, lets say the sink backed up and the snaking was done to clear the drain. What could happen is the back up could go up the vent and theoretically clog the vent.
The snaking of this system is not complete.


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## Tommy plumber

Best Darn Sewer said:


> We dont allow wet venting here. I know wet venting works well if the system is designed properly but why do you say dry venting should be avoided? If each fixture is independently vented than what issue can come about?












It's good plumbing practice to wash the base of each and every stack. Otherwise, what one has is a 'dry vent.' Dry in the sense that there is no fixture washing the base of said stack. In time, debris can accumulate at the dry vent's base, in theory. Leaves, insects, etc.


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## wyrickmech

BC73RS said:


> Ah, I was waiting for this. Hypothetically speaking, lets say the sink backed up and the snaking was done to clear the drain. What could happen is the back up could go up the vent and theoretically clog the vent. The snaking of this system is not complete.


the IPC will not allow horizontal dry vents the original loop vent only removes air from drain it has no connection to anything but the drain.


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## love2surf927

BC73RS said:


> Ah, I was waiting for this.
> Hypothetically speaking, lets say the sink backed up and the snaking was done to clear the drain. What could happen is the back up could go up the vent and theoretically clog the vent.
> The snaking of this system is not complete.


Yes, that's exactly what I mentioned a few posts above, however it seems a knowledgable drain cleaner should know that, and snake from the foot vent as well. Assuming the co for the foot vent is accesible. Haha, big assumption I know as many times it is not.


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## plumbdrum

plumbdrum said:


> This is out of my Ma code, 3 different ways Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Here it is again, 3 different ways..... AAV and other attempts at a Bow, Loop, Island vent , whatever you call it is .

1. Not approved in My stat

2. Never will be.

3. Is a lazy mans way of venting in any other state.

4. Is a potential health hazard . AAV could get stuck in the open position allowing sewer gases to escape.

5. This conversation is over.

6. Thread CLOSED!!!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Will

An over sized drain will not separate debris anymore than another system. The oversized drain functions are a drain and vent and keeps air flowing much better than a loop vent. Dry vents should be outlawed


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## Best Darn Sewer

Will said:


> An over sized drain will not separate debris anymore than another system. The oversized drain functions are a drain and vent and keeps air flowing much better than a loop vent. Dry vents should be outlawed


Outlawed? They've worked in Texas for a hundred years w/ minimal trouble. I can see some debris building up at the base of stacks over time but, IMO, the over sized drain is much worse especially on kitchen drains. 

They can take 4-7 years to start clogging but once they do they have to be jetted because you can't get the right size cable thru a 3" trap.

A 3" p-trap and line will not properly carry the small food particulates when a faucet that produces only 2.2 GPMs is feeding it so debris slowly accumulates on the bottom. I have seen a lot of oversized kitchen drains clog every 4 years and need jetting because they pack full. A lot does depend on use, tho. 

I guess in the end no matter what system you use for an island sink problems can occur. Pick your poison.


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> An over sized drain will not separate debris anymore than another system. The oversized drain functions are a drain and vent and keeps air flowing much better than a loop vent. Dry vents should be outlawed


Actually the 3" pipe will separate more debris than a 2" pipe. It is the same problem as with an over sized building sewer fed by low-flow toilets. Buoyancy. Or in this case, the LACK of buoyancy.

A 3" pipe is flatter on bottom than a 2" pipe. That makes the water more shallow and solids (food particles and grease) more likely to sit in the pipe rather than be carried down the line. Down the line, where they can be properly flushed out by higher volume fixtures like an automatic clothes washer or a bathroom group.


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## wyrickmech

plbgbiz said:


> Actually the 3" pipe will separate more debris than a 2" pipe. It is the same problem as with an over sized building sewer fed by low-flow toilets. Buoyancy. Or in this case, the LACK of buoyancy. A 3" pipe is flatter on bottom than a 2" pipe. That makes the water more shallow and solids (food particles and grease) more likely to sit in the pipe rather than be carried down the line. Down the line, where they can be properly flushed out by higher volume fixtures like an automatic clothes washer or a bathroom group.


 the bigger the pipe the more problem you have.


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## Will

plbgbiz said:


> Actually the 3" pipe will separate more debris than a 2" pipe. It is the same problem as with an over sized building sewer fed by low-flow toilets. Buoyancy. Or in this case, the LACK of buoyancy.
> 
> A 3" pipe is flatter on bottom than a 2" pipe. That makes the water more shallow and solids (food particles and grease) more likely to sit in the pipe rather than be carried down the line. Down the line, where they can be properly flushed out by higher volume fixtures like an automatic clothes washer or a bathroom group.



I disagree. That 2" kitchen sink drain ties into a 3" anyway. To each as own I guess, but I'd never do a loop vent unless I have no choice. Even a AAV is superior.

Wish in a lab we could put a loop vent system against a 3" drain and feed them both to a kitchen sink. Put them same stuff in the every day and see which one fails first. I'd beat my life savings on the loop vent failing first


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## plumbdrum

Will said:


> I disagree. That 2" kitchen sink drain ties into a 3" anyway. To each as own I guess, but I'd never do a loop vent unless I have no choice. Even a AAV is superior. Wish in a lab we could put a loop vent system against a 3" drain and feed them both to a kitchen sink. Put them same stuff in the every day and see which one fails first. I'd beat my life savings on the loop vent failing first


This is getting to be a pointless thread, to many varying code and opinions, most of you are wrong in my opinion. 

I'm out!!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Will

That because were all right and we don't change :laughing:


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## plbgbiz

Will said:


> That because were all right and we don't change :laughing:


:yes:


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## plbgbiz

At 2", the k/s drain is already over sized. 3" doesn't change the problem, it only delays it.


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## love2surf927

plumbdrum said:


> This is getting to be a pointless thread, to many varying code and opinions, most of you are wrong in my opinion.
> 
> I'm out!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


Speaking of a pointless thread, how about a pointless post...


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## plumbdrum

love2surf927 said:


> Speaking of a pointless thread, how about a pointless post...[/QUOTE
> 
> Your point is?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## plumbdrum

It's funny, I'm with you on loop/ bow vents. I try to stop the back and forth comments about this topic ,and you say it's pointless. There are to many varying codes to have an intelligent conversation about said topic. My state does not allow AAV, so my opinion is that our state code is the accepted way, other states allow other codes. So why would you insult me and say my post is pointless?

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## wyrickmech

Will said:


> I disagree. That 2" kitchen sink drain ties into a 3" anyway. To each as own I guess, but I'd never do a loop vent unless I have no choice. Even a AAV is superior. Wish in a lab we could put a loop vent system against a 3" drain and feed them both to a kitchen sink. Put them same stuff in the every day and see which one fails first. I'd beat my life savings on the loop vent failing first


when the drain ties into a three inch it has also picked up extra dfu load. So the point is still over sizing a drain has its problems.


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## natem1986

I'd like to reopen the thread. After reading it. has anybody brought up the question why a bow vent is not stuffed in the cabinet as opposed to the sink? 

Who brought the two inch? I know it's a grinder and you may want the drain a little bigger but your not wet venting obviously as it's a kitchen.. 

If you don't have room in the cabinet a couple feet next to you, loop vent it . If it's an island, You should have room to build a cabinet to put that bow in it... Just IMHO


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## love2surf927

plumbdrum said:


> It's funny, I'm with you on loop/ bow vents. I try to stop the back and forth comments about this topic ,and you say it's pointless. There are to many varying codes to have an intelligent conversation about said topic. My state does not allow AAV, so my opinion is that our state code is the accepted way, other states allow other codes. So why would you insult me and say my post is pointless?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


No AAVs here either. Personally I think there IS an intelligent conversation going on, if you don't think so that's fine but it's pointless IMO to claim this is a pointless thread. Back and forth opinions is part of the concept of a forum, code was not part of the discussion. I asked Will his opinion and I dont feel it's pointless at all.


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## plumbdrum

love2surf927 said:


> No AAVs here either. Personally I think there IS an intelligent conversation going on, if you don't think so that's fine but it's pointless IMO to claim this is a pointless thread. Back and forth opinions is part of the concept of a forum, code was not part of the discussion. I asked Will his opinion and I dont feel it's pointless at all. If you think it's pointless than why are you still commenting, I thought you said you were "out".


I can tell you and I could have some great debates. What state are you located in? I love code debate being a full time inspector of a major city and 2 small towns. The original question was the install correct, which obviously it is not. That being said ,the pointless conversation now is the multiple state codes, this could go on forever, who is right? What is the best practice? I guess whatever way a bow/loop vent gets done in other states is correct. That is my point, how many pages of debate does this need to be? Not trying to be negative towards you, I would hope you would have the same respect.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## love2surf927

plumbdrum said:


> I can tell you and I could have some great debates. What state are you located in? I love code debate being a full time inspector of a major city and 2 small towns. The original question was the install correct, which obviously it is not. That being said ,the pointless conversation now is the multiple state codes, this could go on forever, who is right? What is the best practice? I guess whatever way a bow/loop vent gets done in other states is correct. That is my point, how many pages of debate does this need to be? Not trying to be negative towards you, I would hope you would have the same respect.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I apologize if my post was offensive, looking back on the beginning of the thread it was about codes. But it took a turn and we were discussing a larger 3" drain as opposed to a loop vent, and drain line carry etc. Anyway, apologies if I offended I found your post to be kind of off putting but after re-reading it I guess I took it the wrong way. I'm in California by the way.


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## plumbdrum

love2surf927 said:


> I apologize if my post was offensive, looking back on the beginning of the thread it was about codes. But it took a turn and we were discussing a larger 3" drain as opposed to a loop vent, and drain line carry etc. Anyway, apologies if I offended I found your post to be kind of off putting but after re-reading it I guess I took it the wrong way. I'm in California by the way.


No worries man, I've got BIG shoulders. I'm in Ma.. I was trying to make a point that's all

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## natem1986

At the end of the day we all understand plumbing can be serious business. This in its' nature is going to yield serious discussion and often disagreements. Let this forum and platform allow it to be what it is..

As a novice journeymen I am very thankful to learn from everybody. as an apprentice two weeks ago I also understand how we're all role models whether we know it or not.


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## sparky

Tommy plumber said:


> It's good plumbing practice to wash the base of each and every stack. Otherwise, what one has is a 'dry vent.' Dry in the sense that there is no fixture washing the base of said stack. In time, debris can accumulate at the dry vent's base, in theory. Leaves, insects, etc.


you are exactly right on with this statement,ky code requires that the vent go up thru the floor in front of the drain and the drain would be behind the tee for the vent.allowing the drain to wash the base of the vent stack.they work really well here in ky being ran like this.:thumbsup:


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## plbgbiz

natem1986 said:


> At the end of the day we all understand plumbing can be serious business. This in its' nature is going to yield serious discussion and often disagreements...


For those that do not already know, I have shared time on tough job sites with Will. He is a complete professional and knows this trade in and out. We all have opinions and sometimes they are in agreement.

One of my opinions is that Will is top notch and when he talks, it is an opportunity for us to learn.
(even if his k/s drains are over sized :laughing: )


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## Michaelcookplum

AAV all the way, no more California loop in the IPC


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## plumbdrum

Michaelcookplum said:


> AAV all the way, no more California loop in the IPC[/QUOT
> 
> 
> Here we go again.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## Keefer w

Hey sparky, what do they call this kind of loop in KY? Do you dare answer?


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## revenge

Im happy here all we need is to use one p trap for sink installs. We use g. disposal kits with tubular looks cleaner


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## wyrickmech

revenge said:


> Im happy here all we need is to use one p trap for sink installs. We use g. disposal kits with tubular looks cleaner


 here we can use one trap only when there is no disposal then it's two traps and at least a 2 in drain.


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## revenge

Wow here you can use one makes you guys get creative with all the lack of space under cabinets


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## wyrickmech

revenge said:


> Wow here you can use one makes you guys get creative with all the lack of space under cabinets


 yep some times if you can keep everything a wall it's not bad but islands are a pain


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## love2surf927

Been a while revenge.


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## revenge

Yep it has bet you didnt miss my bad grammar or spelling right lol


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## sparky

Keefer w said:


> Hey sparky, what do they call this kind of loop in KY? Do you dare answer?


In back of the code book on the drawing it was called a Mexican loop vent up until just a few yrs ago,they had to get more politically correct and now refer to it as just a loop vent


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## plbgbiz

This is a pic of one what Will was describing. Not his job...just an example.


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## sparky

plbgbiz said:


> This is a pic of one what Will was describing. Not his job...just an example.


not legal in ky,has to be a vent on the drainline,also has to be coming out of the wall,no exceptions


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## plbgbiz

sparky said:


> not legal in ky,has to be a vent on the drainline,also has to be coming out of the wall,no exceptions


It is an island. There is no wall.


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## Gunnar

Here we would have the trap in the floor and back vent and take the vent to the nearest wall and tie I. Above the FLR. There would be a line C/o in the b


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## Gunnar

Gunnar said:


> Here we would have the trap in the floor , back vent and take the vent to the nearest wall and tie In above the FLR. There would be a line C/o in the cabinet .


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## Gunnar

Gunnar said:


> Here we would have the trap in the floor and back vent and take the vent to the nearest wall and tie I. Above the FLR. There would be a line C/o in the b


Island


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## Gunnar

Sorry for the multiple post I suck with these computers


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## wyrickmech

Gunnar said:


> Here we would have the trap in the floor and back vent and take the vent to the nearest wall and tie I. Above the FLR. There would be a line C/o in the b


 your developed Leigh on the trap riser would get you into trouble here. But not a bad attempt at solving the problem.


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## plbgbiz

Gunnar said:


> Sorry for the multiple post I suck with these computers





wyrickmech said:


> your developed LEIGH on the trap riser....


So does everyone else. :jester: :laughing:


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## Will

Here is some examples of a over sized drain, yes I could have put a vent through the roof, but I ran 3" to it instead. Call me hard headed, but I prefer it that way. In the future, if problems arise in the plumbing system, a camera can easily be put into the system, or even a cable with a full size cutter can be put in. I feel it is better way of doing it. It is vented by the vent I put at the beginning of the system for the shower, and from the vents off the lavatory and washing machine. It is a remodel I am doing and yes it is my work. I installed 3" to the location of the sink. It serve as both a vent and drain, it is legal and passed inspection in the City of Norman. The 3" at that end of the run is the Kitchen Sink. Its a garage to apartment remodel.


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## plbgbiz

Clean work Will. :thumbup:

It ain't easy getting green tags in Norman.


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## plumbdrum

No comment

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## Gunnar

That's how we do it here in ontario...pretty sure were allowed 1.2m on the fixture outlet pipe


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## wyrickmech

Will said:


> Here is some examples of a over sized drain, yes I could have put a vent through the roof, but I ran 3" to it instead. Call me hard headed, but I prefer it that way. In the future, if problems arise in the plumbing system, a camera can easily be put into the system, or even a cable with a full size cutter can be put in. I feel it is better way of doing it. It is vented by the vent I put at the beginning of the system for the shower, and from the vents off the lavatory and washing machine. It is a remodel I am doing and yes it is my work. I installed 3" to the location of the sink. It serve as both a vent and drain, it is legal and passed inspection in the City of Norman. The 3" at that end of the run is the Kitchen Sink. Its a garage to apartment remodel.


the drain would be self venting and sense it is mainly gray water it should work. Seen a office building where they turned a two inch up and out then reduced to 1 1/2 for the trap no vent it was a self vented trap. Does work but I still like venting each fixture.


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## Will

wyrickmech said:


> the drain would be self venting and sense it is mainly gray water it should work. Seen a office building where they turned a two inch up and out then reduced to 1 1/2 for the trap no vent it was a self vented trap. Does work but I still like venting each fixture.



The system I put in the sink is still vented. a vent does not have to be vertical to work


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## 4Aces Plumbing

I see the theory, I see a few of your points on the benefits, but plain and simple it would never pass inspection here.


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## arie stratus

4Aces Plumbing said:


> Attempted Island vent, but regardless of how it is plumbed below, I can't see this being legal...


The vent pipe below the floor would always be full of water. Would it not?


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## arie stratus

arie stratus said:


> The vent pipe below the floor would always be full of water. Would it not?


Actually never mind just thought about it. It would drain back into the waist thru the foot connection.


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## wyrickmech

arie stratus said:


> Actually never mind just thought about it. It would drain back into the waist thru the foot connection.


the bigger problem is the trash that will deposit in the vent and plug it up.


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## arie stratus

wyrickmech said:


> the bigger problem is the trash that will deposit in the vent and plug it up.


Is just a bad installation no doubt about it


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## BC73RS

arie stratus said:


> Actually never mind just thought about it.


Good, take a deep breath and relax.


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## wyrickmech

arie stratus said:


> Is just a bad installation no doubt about it


standard loop vent works just fine and there is no chance of a point that the trash can settle and plug the vent.


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## arie stratus

wyrickmech said:


> standard loop vent works just fine and there is no chance of a point that the trash can settle and plug the vent.


They wet vented the foot vent. Is that legal where you come from. And don't tell me to relax I can do whatever I want.


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## wyrickmech

arie stratus said:


> They wet vented the foot vent. Is that legal where you come from. And don't tell me to relax I can do whatever I want.


the foot vent is ill eagle here no horizontal dry vents are allowed just for the reason I was talking about. They will plug with back washed material.


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## realmenow

I thought the vent should be above the flood rim


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## arie stratus

realmenow said:


> I thought the vent should be above the flood rim


Not for the a typical vent under the island sink


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## arie stratus

realmenow said:


> I thought the vent should be above the flood rim


It should be looped with a 45 which the pic clearly does not show


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## arie stratus

arie stratus said:


> It should be looped with a 45 which the pic clearly does not show


In other words it is supposed to be vented with two forty fives and a ninety.


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## wyrickmech

arie stratus said:


> In other words it is supposed to be vented with two forty fives and a ninety.


we were taught to do a loop vent correctly you must have the vent side down stream of the drain by 1 ft and no fittings other than y,s and street 45's coming off the top only. You came straight up tee on the drain and went as high as posable then turned down to the vent all 90,s on the loop. You also would add clean outs on both risers.


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## arie stratus

wyrickmech said:


> we were taught to do a loop vent correctly you must have the vent side down stream of the drain by 1 ft and no fittings other than y,s and street 45's coming off the top only. You came straight up tee on the drain and went as high as posable then turned down to the vent all 90,s on the loop. You also would add clean outs on both risers.


Who is we ? You and I?


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## Gargalaxy

realmenow said:


> I thought the vent should be above the flood rim





arie stratus said:


> Who is we ? You and I?


Don't foget to invite realhim too, he'll be a good help installing an AAV underground....


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## arie stratus

Gargalaxy said:


> Don't foget to invite realhim too, he'll be a good help installing an AAV underground....


Jeeeeeez


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## wyrickmech

arie stratus said:


> Who is we ? You and I?


 I was talking about the men I trained with. Lol


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## arie stratus

wyrickmech said:


> I was talking about the men I trained with. Lol


Do any of the plumbers on this site follow the UPC guidelines ? The only way according to UPC to make the loop is with a 45° a 90° and a 45° in the order named. Only the vertical portion of the foot vent shall a clean out be installed.


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## love2surf927

arie stratus said:


> Do any of the plumbers on this site follow the UPC guidelines ? The only way according to UPC to make the loop is with a 45° a 90° and a 45° in the order named. Only the vertical portion of the foot vent shall a clean out be installed.


I do, and yes I agree that is how I was taught however I haven't personally seen the part in my code book about the specific fittings in the loop.


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## titaniumplumbr

It's not legal because the island vent is a drain on both sides


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## wyrickmech

titaniumplumbr said:


> It's not legal because the island vent is a drain on both sides


explain I would love to here your theory on this matter


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## titaniumplumbr

Such fixture vents shall not be permitted to be a wet vent on both sides one must be dry and provide adequate fresh air to allow the fixture being vented to drain. Here in Florida we are allowed to vent a whole house through a stud or as long as we have at least one 3" vtr terminating into outside air


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## wyrickmech

titaniumplumbr said:


> Such fixture vents shall not be permitted to be a wet vent on both sides one must be dry and provide adequate fresh air to allow the fixture being vented to drain. Here in Florida we are allowed to vent a whole house through a stud or as long as we have at least one 3" vtr terminating into outside air


what do you follow IPC or UPC ?


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## titaniumplumbr

UPC and IPC ... In addition Florida has one the hardest code books when it comes to venting


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## wyrickmech

titaniumplumbr said:


> UPC and IPC ... In addition Florida has one the hardest code books when it comes to venting


 loop venting is legal in both UPC and IPC. The drain is only on one side not both. When venting a island sink the air will be pulled off of the top of the drain. Here you can only loop vent one sink in residential.


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## justme

all you residential guys lol, put a hub drain under the Island and indirect the hole damn thing . lol


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## titaniumplumbr

Not arguing wether or not loop vent is ok but that picture at the beginning would not pass an inspection


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## wyrickmech

Photo one would not pass because the drains are not on the same side. Pict two would not pass because of the horizontal dry vent. And the same thing on the drawing. Here loop vents can only loop from the drain to the vent on the fixture no horizontal dry venting is allowed.


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## titaniumplumbr

Ok same here


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## Letterrip

titaniumplumbr said:


> UPC and IPC ... In addition Florida has one the hardest code books when it comes to venting


Correction. Florida USED to have a hard code book in any respect. South Florida Building Code was tough. Florida Building Code?? Not so much.


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## titaniumplumbr

Yeah well I don't know what makes so much easier we have 40 books for the plumbing test and you have to know a little from each


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## jeffreyplumber

Im going to go out on a limb and answer the question. No that" Island Vent" isnt legal any where!


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## wyrickmech

jeffreyplumber said:


> Im going to go out on a limb and answer the question. No that" Island Vent" isnt legal any where!


 it is legal here nothing wrong with it.


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## Gargalaxy

Letterrip said:


> Correction. Florida USED to have a hard code book in any respect. South Florida Building Code was tough. Florida Building Code?? Not so much.


You're totally right, actually for inspections.:thumbsup:


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## Gargalaxy

titaniumplumbr said:


> Yeah well I don't know what makes so much easier we have 40 books for the plumbing test and you have to know a little from each


I don't recall that many, was around 20 books including biz but times change. That's means that now its even harder with 40 books just for the plumbing test.


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## jeffreyplumber

wyrickmech said:


> it is legal here nothing wrong with it.


Ok I guess its legal where you come from . It sure isnt even close to upc code though. Which code do you follow?


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## wyrickmech

jeffreyplumber said:


> Ok I guess its legal where you come from . It sure isnt even close to upc code though. Which code do you follow?


 IPC why isn't it legal? Loop vents have been in code books as long as I have been in the trades.


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## plumbdrum

jeffreyplumber said:


> Ok I guess its legal where you come from . It sure isnt even close to upc code though. Which code do you follow?


You can go put your AAV's in

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## jeffreyplumber

plumbdrum said:


> You can go put your AAV's in
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


I dont think our code allows aav but cutting that vent off and throwing those on top might a be way to make that legal in your area. we cant run a flat vent like that less than 6 inches above flood level. an Island vent requires a 45 then a long sweep and another 45 so no portion of the vent would be flat. Also only one of the vertical pipes is a drain the other is a vent and no waste can be run down it. I guess in some places it could be legal but in a place where upc code is used its a mess I know it might be hard to belive but that is an awful Island vent to a plumber in upc code. We dont have anything called loop vent just Island vent and that one fails here. I honestly thought it would be illegal anywhere you go but apparently not. 
No offence to anyone if this is good work where you come from I know there are some big differances on how to plumb out there


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## wyrickmech

jeffreyplumber said:


> I dont think our code allows aav but cutting that vent off and throwing those on top might a be way to make that legal in your area. we cant run a flat vent like that less than 6 inches above flood level. an Island vent requires a 45 then a long sweep and another 45 so no portion of the vent would be flat. Also only one of the vertical pipes is a drain the other is a vent and no waste can be run down it. I guess in some places it could be legal but in a place where upc code is used its a mess I know it might be hard to belive but that is an awful Island vent to a plumber in upc code. We dont have anything called loop vent just Island vent and that one fails here. I honestly thought it would be illegal anywhere you go but apparently not. No offence to anyone if this is good work where you come from I know there are some big differances on how to plumb out there


 ok if you can't use aav,s and a loop vent is illegal how does your ( island vent ) configuration fit into UPC code parameters?


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## plumbdrum

jeffreyplumber said:


> I dont think our code allows aav but cutting that vent off and throwing those on top might a be way to make that legal in your area. we cant run a flat vent like that less than 6 inches above flood level. an Island vent requires a 45 then a long sweep and another 45 so no portion of the vent would be flat. Also only one of the vertical pipes is a drain the other is a vent and no waste can be run down it. I guess in some places it could be legal but in a place where upc code is used its a mess I know it might be hard to belive but that is an awful Island vent to a plumber in upc code. We dont have anything called loop vent just Island vent and that one fails here. I honestly thought it would be illegal anywhere you go but apparently not. No offence to anyone if this is good work where you come from I know there are some big differances on how to plumb out there


This guys a genius , so in that pic one is a vent a one is a drain? Wow , who knew? Clearly someone tied in a drain on a vent. I'm in Ma where we have our own code that it loosely based on the UPC. AAV our illegal , bow/loop vents our approved here , always have been. The only slight difference is we don't have to use a 90 and 2 45's at the top of vent, just 2 90's.

Sent from my iPhone using PlumbingZone


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## plbgbiz

jeffreyplumber said:


> I dont think our code allows aav but cutting that vent off and throwing those on top might a be way to make that legal in your area. we cant run a flat vent like that less than 6 inches above flood level. an Island vent requires a 45 then a long sweep and another 45 so no portion of the vent would be flat. Also only one of the vertical pipes is a drain the other is a vent and no waste can be run down it. I guess in some places it could be legal but in a place where upc code is used its a mess I know it might be hard to belive but that is an awful Island vent to a plumber in upc code. We dont have anything called loop vent just Island vent and that one fails here. I honestly thought it would be illegal anywhere you go but apparently not. No offence to anyone if this is good work where you come from I know there are some big differances on how to plumb out there


 Like this?


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## mrjasontgreek

NPC Canada says we can use one of three ways: aav, locate the trap under the floor (fixture outlet pipe can't be over 1200mm, there have to be CO's located upstream and downstream of the trap and the trap must be vented accordingly), or island vent. If we island vent, the island vented portion must increase one pipe size, there must be a CO located as close as possible to the floor on both the drain and vent side, and the vent that serves the island vent ties in vertically downstream of the connection of the vent side of the island vent. The distance between the downstream connection of the island vent and the vent that serves it must not be any longer than the maximum allowed length of the trap arm for the fixture. We don't have to put two 45's and a 90 on the top of the island vent, but it is recognized as good practice.


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## jeffreyplumber

plbgbiz said:


> Like this?


Thanks plpgbiz,
Yes the one in this last picture looks like what my code upc calls an island vent . Very Very common here built many myself. It must be consrtucted exactly like the one in the picture to be legal, there is a differance we cant use whatever fittings to tie the vents together and we cant run 2 drains. like that one that was inthe original question. That first system would be laughable here. Im just telling you the truth It obviously isnt the case , where some other codes are used.


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## plbgbiz

jeffreyplumber said:


> Thanks plpgbiz, Yes the one in this last picture looks like what my code upc calls an island vent . Very Very common here built many myself. It must be consrtucted exactly like the one in the picture to be legal, there is a differance we cant use whatever fittings to tie the vents together and we cant run 2 drains. like that one that was inthe original question. That first system would be laughable here. Im just telling you the truth It obviously isnt the case , where some other codes are used.


Yeah, good plumbing and codes do not always agree.


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