# Quoting new construction residential house



## beavercreekhc (Mar 15, 2010)

What is the easiest method to use? I still have yet to find a quick and accurate method. What do you guys use? Thanks for the info


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## Master Mark (Aug 14, 2009)

*just say no*

so much per bathroom, so much for each fixture.

then be sure to add about 500 hundred dollars to the bid to cover what the builder will natrually cheat you out of......:yes:

their is no safe way to estimate them because 90% of the builders out there are theives and the skum of the earth....and you cant tell which players are honest....

so the best way to win at that game is to tell them all to go to hell..... you will be right 9 out of 10 times....:yes::yes:

and that aint a bad batting average...:thumbup:


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## beavercreekhc (Mar 15, 2010)

lmao that might be the best way yet


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## tungsten plumb (Apr 15, 2010)

I agree with Master Mark. All the builder is gonna do is add 10% to your bid and then find some out of work plumber to do it for $25 bucks a hr


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## beavercreekhc (Mar 15, 2010)

I've tried a National Plumbing & HVAC Estimator..it works ok, just have to adjust a few things, but what do some of you guys use or the methods you use? So much per bathroom or do you just lay it all out on paper take a wild guess find your most expensive fitting and multiply it by all the fittings you believe you will be using?


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

When I left the trade over a year ago I was using a base of $2100.00 per fixture, and then modifying that based on the conditions for both new and remodel work, this was strictly for the rough. Trim was based on fixture cost and my knowledge of how long things take to trim, Duravit floor mounted rear outlet toilets take twice the time to set then Toto toilets with the plastic floor adapter that has to get mounted to the floor. Dornbracht decorative stops have no flats, and snugging them down can be a total pain if the brass nipple has a rough thread on it, and they have to sit dead flush to look correct.


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## Jiffy (May 24, 2009)

tungsten plumb said:


> I agree with Master Mark. All the builder is gonna do is add 10% to your bid and then find some out of work plumber to do it for $25 bucks a hr


But listen...if you give him a good price here you'l get ALL his future work :laughing:


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## Jiffy (May 24, 2009)

And ask HIM for references. Tell him you want to speak to his old plumber. He probably doesn't have a regular guy cuz he screws everyone over or is such a PITA to work with no one wants his work.


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## Plumbus (Aug 4, 2008)

There are no short cuts. To be accurate, you have to do a take off, taking into account elevations and structural conditions. If you have estimating software you are comfortable with, you can do a single story house in 2-4 hours. Multiple stories multiply the time required. As for thieving GC's, your proposal should be as detailed as possible, outlining what you include and *what you exclude. *Be sure to note the date on the plan you take off. Better yet, save your copy so when something comes up later (and it always will) you've got something concrete to compare apples to oranges with. Also, keep all correspondence referring to the job generated during the bidding process, like rfi's (requests for information) and the responses they produce.
But, if you're dealing with a real crook, and not just a cheap sob, all bets are off.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> When I left the trade over a year ago I was using a base of $2100.00 per fixture, and then modifying that based on the conditions for both new and remodel work, this was strictly for the rough


Wow! That's insanely high! No wonder you're out of the trade.  Gold plated pipe is expensive, I guess... :whistling2:

If I could get that kind of money for new construction I'd be very very happy, and very well off. Around here it's more like less than half that (maybe 800 per), including lower-mid fixtures/faucets.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

futz said:


> Wow! That's insanely high! No wonder you're out of the trade.  Gold plated pipe is expensive, I guess... :whistling2:
> 
> If I could get that kind of money for new construction I'd be very very happy, and very well off. Around here it's more like less than half that (maybe 800 per), including lower-mid fixtures/faucets.


We barely broke even on this job at $2100.00 per fixture on the rough, luckily we made some back on the extras on the trim.


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## Lifer (Nov 23, 2010)

4:14 in the am wow .. you fellas start early. Or is you "VCR" clock stuck at 12:00 also .. lol just teasin.

Lifer...


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

So assuming a speck house with typical fixtures like say Delta or Moen, rough-in, top-out, and trim. Whats a good price per fixture. One I done I had price of 8k with owner helping with labor. Next was more but was bout 15 miles out of town. 11 or 12 k. 2 bath home with Softener connections and R/O. I purposely steered away from new work because of it being so market sensitive.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> We barely broke even on this job at $2100.00 per fixture on the rough, luckily we made some back on the extras on the trim.


 
That's the truest form of plumbing there is in this profession. I must say that even though I believe KY has the strictest codes, Illinois has the best "active" working codes on materials and workmanship. 

There are plumbers on this site, other sites that cannot do that work right there. Let alone pour a lead joint. I reworked a copper DWV system, not a large scale about 2 years ago and absolutely loved the opportunity to work with 1.5" and 2" copper, refitting a drain system that was stolen from theft. 

It's the truest form of art in plumbing, along with cast iron and that piping right there will be 45-60 years before it fails. Even on dirty arms for food waste on kitchens. 

There's a good mix of copper in some of these homes, the vents will stay around indefinitely and once you replace the closet bend or kitchen sink drains, it's long term.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> That's the truest form of plumbing there is in this profession.
> 
> There are plumbers on this site, other sites that cannot do that work right there. Let alone pour a lead joint.



Leaded joints in its "truest form" seems old school to me. Why would I want to learn something as "old school" as that. No punn intended. While it is interesting and a respected part of our plumbing past, why go there. They were doing the newest and the best technology they had at the time. They also were running galvanized water piping so why not revert back to that? Maybe it's my location but I don't see the need now. If someone wants to do lead joints more power to him, but I shouldn't feel put down because I never had to learn it.


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## DUNBAR PLUMBING (Sep 11, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> Leaded joints in its "truest form" seems old school to me. Why would I want to learn something as "old school" as that. No punn intended. While it is interesting and a respected part of our plumbing past, why go there. They were doing the newest and the best technology they had at the time. They also were running galvanized water piping so why not revert back to that? Maybe it's my location but I don't see the need now. If someone wants to do lead joints more power to him, but I shouldn't feel put down because I never had to learn it.


 
What you see above is mandatory in high rise buildings. 


It's a great deal required in long term decision making in piping choices. 


If you're speaking of residential in contrast to the above, it simply does not apply.


If you compare a correctly poured lead joint against a PVC one in DWV representation,

PVC turns to brittle glass in like 8 years, and will yellow. If it is disturbed it can crack through stress. 

You don't get failures in cast iron for decades. 

And, you do not have to worry about it growing/contracting like PVC will over developed lengths. 

In KY, you cannot run PVC over 45' (4 stories) for that very reason. Cast iron won't sag in just 2 years either. It needs to be strapped, but more for the gain of helping the damn plumber holding it while they pour joints and align fittings.

Cast iron will never be phased out in the big picture as it applies to so many current applications.

Residential is kids play compared to the realm of the plumbing profession, and running water lines like garden hose and roughing DWV in 6 hours in top out says exactly what it pays in current times. 

LESS than ever before.

I don't mind explaining it, but I understand how valuable the older piping systems are today, especially when they've broken through many decades of usage and still working today.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Explained very well, hat off to you.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> Leaded joints in its "truest form" seems old school to me. Why would I want to learn something as "old school" as that. No punn intended. While it is interesting and a respected part of our plumbing past, why go there. They were doing the newest and the best technology they had at the time. They also were running galvanized water piping so why not revert back to that? Maybe it's my location but I don't see the need now. If someone wants to do lead joints more power to him, but I shouldn't feel put down because I never had to learn it.


I've done work in buildings that did not allow copper plumbing, so we installed galvanized waste, vent, and water.

Working with hub and spigot cast iron and steel waste and vent is something I think every apprentice should learn, not from the practical standpoint that they might have to install it, but from the fact that you can't cheat when using those materials. You can't lean on a steel vent riser to force it to make up a joint that you cut a half inch to short, it makes you learn to measure, and cut things accurately the first time, every time.

I understand that the majority of the trade nowadays throws in lick it and stick it pipe for waste and vent and crimps plastic for water, but please don't dismiss out of hand the efforts of those that can't install that because the work they do does not allow it.


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## user4 (Jun 12, 2008)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> That's the truest form of plumbing there is in this profession. I must say that even though I believe KY has the strictest codes, Illinois has the best "active" working codes on materials and workmanship.
> 
> There are plumbers on this site, other sites that cannot do that work right there. Let alone pour a lead joint.


Anyone can do that work, the trick is teaching them to do it, but you may have to put them in a position where they are forced to learn it as opposed to them just looking for the easy way out.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

*Too much fun for me*



Killertoiletspider said:


> Anyone can do that work, the trick is teaching them to do it, but you may have to put them in a position where they are forced to learn it as opposed to them just looking for the easy way out.


Agrees,,,,,,,To quote a friend, " Plumbing is science, not rocket science". I got into plumbing here ( New Mexico) just after the "lickem stickem" stuff came in. I respect greatly any man who goes out and works to put food on the table. I just missed the good old leaded gig but would have loved to learn it. And while I honor you that still use this method I am glad to not have to fool with it.


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## Will (Jun 6, 2010)

I've been getting 750 a fixture for residential. 

Killer, 

Nice copper work there:thumbsup:. I miss doing that stuff. I did nothing but copper pipe for the first 18 months of my career. We would repipe mechanical rooms and tunnels on the Texas A&M University campus. I sweated 2"-6" copper 10 hours a day for 18 months tell the contract ran out. Those where my fondest memories of plumbing. I love pipe fitting.


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## Associated Plum (Nov 4, 2008)

Killertoiletspider said:


> You can't lean on a steel vent riser to force it to make up a joint that you cut a half inch to short, it makes you learn to measure, and cut things accurately the first time, every time.


 
And we used to do it with a 6' rule.


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## Epox (Sep 19, 2010)

Associated Plum said:


> And we used to do it with a 6' rule.


 Yeah my old boss in the 70's used the 6' fold up rule you mentioned. He got along great with it.


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## futz (Sep 17, 2009)

Killertoiletspider said:


> We barely broke even on this job at $2100.00 per fixture on the rough, luckily we made some back on the extras on the trim.


Ah, I see! You *are *using gold plated pipe. :laughing: Nice work if you can get it. We don't see that in houses around here, even in multi-million $$ homes. CI and copper DWV is reserved for commercial and multi-story apartment/condo type stuff.


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## U666A (Dec 11, 2010)

DUNBAR PLUMBING said:


> What you see above is mandatory in high rise buildings.
> 
> It's a great deal required in long term decision making in piping choices.
> 
> ...


Dunbar, you say cast and copper is mandatory in high rises in your area. Is system 15 xfr not approved? I have done a couple of high rise hotels, some ALL cast and copper, some wirsbo and xfr. 

As far as the meat and potatoes of this trade, for me, it's cast and copper drainage. Absolutely my fave, hands down.

Sorry for the thread jack.


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## lpayne1234 (Sep 20, 2008)

mpsllc said:


> Yeah my old boss in the 70's used the 6' fold up rule you mentioned. He got along great with it.


I still use it, didn't realize there was another:thumbup:


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## Maximumplumbing (Nov 6, 2010)

What is the 6' rule exactly?


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## Airgap (Dec 18, 2008)

Maximumplumbing said:


> What is the 6' rule exactly?


This rule is exactly 6'


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